From nobody Wed Jun 1 10:15:34 2016 Return-Path: X-Original-To: lisp@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: lisp@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 77FCB12B04C for ; Wed, 1 Jun 2016 10:15:33 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.6 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.6 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW=-0.7] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=venaas-com.20150623.gappssmtp.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id YYnD48IlbpHU for ; Wed, 1 Jun 2016 10:15:31 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail-lf0-x22e.google.com (mail-lf0-x22e.google.com [IPv6:2a00:1450:4010:c07::22e]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 3D6FB12B04D for ; Wed, 1 Jun 2016 10:15:31 -0700 (PDT) Received: by mail-lf0-x22e.google.com with SMTP id w16so17386930lfd.2 for ; Wed, 01 Jun 2016 10:15:31 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=venaas-com.20150623.gappssmtp.com; s=20150623; h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:date:message-id:subject:from:to; bh=UoPNto7sOpEQlbrbW8NqhxRxqeJKMFwBapgZMbvmpF4=; b=uPuxdoupi58xQoBLyCWiyGCjxhSNAUJdxHgiMJum6tCE+nd/ODWZ96rCzIPF5t2cvP CoZ2Nkn58bE7+aY74DRNG4XHminYWJq7T3CuHlHKAknFPGBlQBW8dOppUY2Uh8X4BiOh 4xfip1dOwiBP2FEw6ivvMo6XfBdhcKMneokuuzsh8WZx0Z62cZFtxLqK2Y6cPpplN8F6 hIIOKHlOu3InQmmmQoXvxJJqkAyHMjUpoGaJFsW+69W+8RW/a1Ri4VezCZkix74Dc0ry Vd+vpKvWtTT/lFGXEdrgFtTrpZrpXqQfJXbXChVMhWm5HYa29uP8qKDzSm18+xV9CLPj OyGg== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20130820; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:in-reply-to:references:date :message-id:subject:from:to; bh=UoPNto7sOpEQlbrbW8NqhxRxqeJKMFwBapgZMbvmpF4=; b=DmVN15h0v8j5FtB+ySXqrbnCMdjujaVWjUjaklcGsRSV+PZsnyP+KUOh/yoJVC6G+q XdfCGO2/zyRV0qXjzn1xXMHgVdqDr0LvtKw0TgqVgxTy3M164h7jGkW0wkTGU8fL5PCk Qsy2B/WkTFytlzPzcX1Y3FEG+pTWcb9MEU3StC/YIPAYQKfypg6p+WXYn1EWjIB5JNb6 Ik5Qkc9buZ3p6wB4NI66IH7YdYRz04WFoAyvS4dNdA2ob4aSmEIMZlN4P110rSJIdhAZ 4xQ7QVM8CXpe6G656nlLN2oeOl/5VIwIQUnenwWTJx6pOXhLUgktfAok4BmEXetam0uu w7rg== X-Gm-Message-State: ALyK8tKnHwVlLFZmUBq34lixM0S8rvlLzA7lgL3XK23VPUhQnCQNYPEts2917wjeILYcSIRXJ6kHs6AAOHMGrg== MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Received: by 10.25.80.72 with SMTP id e69mr1964579lfb.96.1464801329065; Wed, 01 Jun 2016 10:15:29 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.25.131.144 with HTTP; Wed, 1 Jun 2016 10:15:28 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: <8CCB28152EA2E14A96BBEDC15823481A09E4D861@dfweml501-mbx> References: <8CCB28152EA2E14A96BBEDC15823481A09E4D861@dfweml501-mbx> Date: Wed, 1 Jun 2016 10:15:28 -0700 Message-ID: From: Stig Venaas To: LISP mailing list list Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Archived-At: Subject: [lisp] Fwd: [pim] WGLC draft-ietf-pim-join-attributes-for-lisp-03 X-BeenThere: lisp@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.17 Precedence: list List-Id: List for the discussion of the Locator/ID Separation Protocol List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 01 Jun 2016 17:15:33 -0000 Hi We're doing a last call on this document in the pim wg right now. As this is used to support LISP multicast (RFC 6831) we would appreciate review and feedback from the lisp wg as well. This document has been presented and discussed in the lisp wg before. Stig ---------- Forwarded message ---------- From: Michael McBride Date: Tue, May 31, 2016 at 9:57 PM Subject: [pim] WGLC draft-ietf-pim-join-attributes-for-lisp-03 To: "pim@ietf.org" PIMers, Today begins a two week WGLC for draft-ietf-pim-join-attributes-for-lisp-03. Please review and comment as to this draft's readiness to be published as an experimental document. https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-pim-join-attributes-for-lisp-03 thank you. mike _______________________________________________ pim mailing list pim@ietf.org https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/pim From nobody Wed Jun 1 10:21:25 2016 Return-Path: X-Original-To: lisp@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: lisp@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id D72DA12D530 for ; Wed, 1 Jun 2016 10:21:23 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.722 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.722 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW=-0.7, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_H3=-0.01, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_WL=-0.01, SPF_HELO_PASS=-0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (1024-bit key) header.d=joelhalpern.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id dYGJm1SyEEVz for ; Wed, 1 Jun 2016 10:21:22 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mailb2.tigertech.net (mailb2.tigertech.net [208.80.4.154]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 4B75C12B007 for ; Wed, 1 Jun 2016 10:21:22 -0700 (PDT) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by mailb2.tigertech.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 347241C043E; Wed, 1 Jun 2016 10:21:22 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=joelhalpern.com; s=1.tigertech; t=1464801682; bh=hCTumVOlX7j29aJq0jDRIxzMOdCidHf9AEARiLd40Yg=; h=Subject:To:References:From:Date:In-Reply-To:From; b=NPTdqAZwfSyab6MoJUrKcr57OdXVGq5WjLbJ5pyHdQWb424X1t62P01o3fvGIFFNp rBexwfDOZqkB+BL+4/B49SO/Z/v7qPCh4B9/XAqcZSBYrTLqIT7t09HieBbcSb7JPY 8a4CX5wfu+Vza3Zo+v3EqUEEOwyB84PaEdDclHmY= X-Virus-Scanned: Debian amavisd-new at b2.tigertech.net Received: from Joels-MacBook-Pro.local (209-255-163-147.ip.mcleodusa.net [209.255.163.147]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by mailb2.tigertech.net (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id BFC6D1C049B; Wed, 1 Jun 2016 10:21:21 -0700 (PDT) To: Stig Venaas , LISP mailing list list References: <8CCB28152EA2E14A96BBEDC15823481A09E4D861@dfweml501-mbx> From: "Joel M. Halpern" Message-ID: <6bf47e4d-3c8d-235a-5ad1-9bd2e8d32aab@joelhalpern.com> Date: Wed, 1 Jun 2016 13:21:16 -0400 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Macintosh; Intel Mac OS X 10.9; rv:45.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/45.1.0 MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=windows-1252; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Archived-At: Subject: Re: [lisp] Fwd: [pim] WGLC draft-ietf-pim-join-attributes-for-lisp-03 X-BeenThere: lisp@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.17 Precedence: list List-Id: List for the discussion of the Locator/ID Separation Protocol List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 01 Jun 2016 17:21:24 -0000 Thank you Stig. Folks, please! Review this, and comment. Yours, Joel On 6/1/16 1:15 PM, Stig Venaas wrote: > Hi > > We're doing a last call on this document in the pim wg right now. As > this is used to support LISP multicast (RFC 6831) we would appreciate > review and feedback from the lisp wg as well. This document has been > presented and discussed in the lisp wg before. > > Stig > > ---------- Forwarded message ---------- > From: Michael McBride > Date: Tue, May 31, 2016 at 9:57 PM > Subject: [pim] WGLC draft-ietf-pim-join-attributes-for-lisp-03 > To: "pim@ietf.org" > > > PIMers, > > > > Today begins a two week WGLC for > draft-ietf-pim-join-attributes-for-lisp-03. Please review and comment > as to this draft's readiness to be published as an experimental > document. > > > > https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-pim-join-attributes-for-lisp-03 > > > > thank you. > > mike > > > _______________________________________________ > pim mailing list > pim@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/pim > > _______________________________________________ > lisp mailing list > lisp@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/lisp > From nobody Wed Jun 1 14:54:07 2016 Return-Path: X-Original-To: lisp@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: lisp@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2D13B12D61F for ; Wed, 1 Jun 2016 14:54:06 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.7 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.7 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW=-0.7, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=gmail.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id oPqoSD2Wis4m for ; Wed, 1 Jun 2016 14:54:04 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail-lf0-x22c.google.com (mail-lf0-x22c.google.com [IPv6:2a00:1450:4010:c07::22c]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 1D98F12D0C4 for ; Wed, 1 Jun 2016 14:54:04 -0700 (PDT) Received: by mail-lf0-x22c.google.com with SMTP id w16so21869936lfd.2 for ; Wed, 01 Jun 2016 14:54:04 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20120113; h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:date:message-id:subject:from:to :cc; bh=WepmIHope93SFkdxvc9pxCv9l/5ttkC3bVRfUN6UfnA=; b=zanH+6G/5c5G77pQ7rxgzX8xW4NN6fk1/+ZyBDBsx+wUqsmlOeGV6mYgrGF03vmrxv V2Jvj2h5xH793OUon39LssW4bGmGtgS8fyp/gk1i3FJ9gOEs+xSfJGoq4Z6ryks+ahf3 XcTQsgzJWAo8EfdwC9/3RMg0LuEc63YMQrCGsWkTPiPtdJP/Vb9lMWfOuGWhkY39w9uK U/B+Cw5fFxe6jQXcVskd8HTkW8bbKprfGz0QqfcM2EYLxkV99iaBcvBKz8fIPYOsf53L a3OcDr0tL678JE7AonG06dJIhrgIz+aAyewVlyP6EC/wnY3lNQnnLGGg1f23Po/vbZsb a/vA== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20130820; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:in-reply-to:references:date :message-id:subject:from:to:cc; bh=WepmIHope93SFkdxvc9pxCv9l/5ttkC3bVRfUN6UfnA=; b=UhCYuBDEZ1LhX3vuKPG1QS9txupItDWpyvDB6bkRmfVUw5Ri1XMZ/quafCw6qZDt/C ZfMz6UFF7TA8ni+2zql6Y3PM4iTVZbwqPOM9chKVxtNJsXZv4DkgLi4pvQGplTeTJJgD HwMS+CiqXJYnSpU+Ly68HcAvTgvFuVHJdIp0jUGUyRPxKJoiIuS/0QPvEJEIo7xIHHit csASOCAT5LhUMKqRUADaHdsbu80LHn8a6+x/0xeu6qQoHp7Zi0fOoZ8dbk2/aBJHJSyf uhr1C43UiVb4Vwydhc8zcPXWp/m8kJhuDGPXuzSBRkhyfojpD5BpY/6DzE7PVKMdi2EK vJNg== X-Gm-Message-State: ALyK8tJ/STJLlSxHzp7c6ovilJNKPZRiv5jXhVuXlxLcQ6s5c3Ara0P/b+OuhN1/VmZYXprp2OK8VY0dtlwa0g== MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Received: by 10.46.1.83 with SMTP id 80mr2703890ljb.22.1464818042190; Wed, 01 Jun 2016 14:54:02 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.25.21.232 with HTTP; Wed, 1 Jun 2016 14:54:02 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: <7B002409-73C7-4B43-9F20-DC19B67B1619@gmail.com> References: <20160506210728.7372.53165.idtracker@ietfa.amsl.com> <7B002409-73C7-4B43-9F20-DC19B67B1619@gmail.com> Date: Wed, 1 Jun 2016 23:54:02 +0200 Message-ID: From: =?UTF-8?Q?Roger_J=C3=B8rgensen?= To: Dino Farinacci Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Archived-At: Cc: LISP mailing list list Subject: Re: [lisp] Fwd: New Version Notification for draft-farinacci-lisp-eid-anonymity-00.txt X-BeenThere: lisp@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.17 Precedence: list List-Id: List for the discussion of the Locator/ID Separation Protocol List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 01 Jun 2016 21:54:06 -0000 On Fri, May 6, 2016 at 11:08 PM, Dino Farinacci wrote: > For your review. Thank you. haven't yet got into the details of it, but if it does what the title say we got - privacy - integrity - crypt - scalability ... what are we missing in LISP now? (except implementation from more vendors) -- Roger Jorgensen | ROJO9-RIPE rogerj@gmail.com | - IPv6 is The Key! http://www.jorgensen.no | roger@jorgensen.no From nobody Wed Jun 1 15:41:34 2016 Return-Path: X-Original-To: lisp@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: lisp@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id ACE7212B00F for ; Wed, 1 Jun 2016 15:41:31 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.7 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.7 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW=-0.7, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=gmail.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 0KFUiAih4WJh for ; Wed, 1 Jun 2016 15:41:26 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail-yw0-x236.google.com (mail-yw0-x236.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:4002:c05::236]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 28C5312B040 for ; Wed, 1 Jun 2016 15:41:25 -0700 (PDT) Received: by mail-yw0-x236.google.com with SMTP id x189so33113064ywe.3 for ; Wed, 01 Jun 2016 15:41:25 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20120113; h=mime-version:subject:from:in-reply-to:date:cc :content-transfer-encoding:message-id:references:to; bh=izO4115MV8NalkYWqNfdJTfunPF0jyaAkv6fiTBUEQY=; b=muDGv1T7pYMz8Z4Le0Myj3Viaj4Fl/+aJ+WcJop4o6Uj/B6wPv1DEXKneujM+BLDH5 TuWajH7csgmBbbHfvV34TMWVm9uqH/cJabOMwJlWkh3aQSry/gqERumQ0iZP5u7j4UZ0 nd+j5SCR0+agRXgPPEuYcbsEY8Bo9FwqgpRQONdtt9sp0TQScBAC18hhk3yWccJkXtb1 hSoc2dOwlmtxZ2G+2WirRm77IHL1xxlgmeAlSN0VeWIKnb1Nh4EiL5AvRx8f4Zn2qivy FFOAlgdYfxibVsal1wIDwaa8Y6x/jjZIbONkP+ku4nTAywzHQMppWkGEJzrVTSbqlmJl 7REQ== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20130820; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:subject:from:in-reply-to:date:cc :content-transfer-encoding:message-id:references:to; bh=izO4115MV8NalkYWqNfdJTfunPF0jyaAkv6fiTBUEQY=; b=kNFGh9se6zqeOdJ9oB0p4K+1HHQIc+Lz4/ycoQrtQ5+QsvaqDuO5SbE8ko9WN2EXTV EzVUN9iDJIeR17uXKIPvF8ARnnJbsnasKeC2HClfd+L7U7oHt+4VVyeMXqartlN6mKCx 5etf90EFmmtma2guDd8Lkggg1mlHvLvLu20Q0rzqvp8KfiL3vp22iXyi/B5mgsvEDGxl rL6K1VNUL+hpT6Izx82WC0ynWXH5BZTIAYQJJ0R5mcuV1uzZb78VZE4yajhJcrx0lUXc TzIiF7VXh/Us4jvTUM+71ob/zuF908Af8lbLLUoH5YMQLu1yYZ/2QkQfHqaHVXBIoMPM UoSg== X-Gm-Message-State: ALyK8tJxqvCYwXaHDB+8XVApPkJTYGqlKkXGhm0ft1JInkdg52O+8KmXV7HkSEV0BfnfUg== X-Received: by 10.129.40.197 with SMTP id o188mr3854516ywo.250.1464820884442; Wed, 01 Jun 2016 15:41:24 -0700 (PDT) Received: from [192.168.1.11] (pool-74-109-45-139.phlapa.east.verizon.net. [74.109.45.139]) by smtp.gmail.com with ESMTPSA id a67sm20706460ywe.4.2016.06.01.15.41.22 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=OTHER); Wed, 01 Jun 2016 15:41:23 -0700 (PDT) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Mime-Version: 1.0 (1.0) From: Dino Farinacci X-Mailer: iPhone Mail (13F69) In-Reply-To: Date: Wed, 1 Jun 2016 18:41:22 -0400 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Message-Id: <642CF660-6E6F-4D46-96A4-6A7DA48F5DBF@gmail.com> References: <20160506210728.7372.53165.idtracker@ietfa.amsl.com> <7B002409-73C7-4B43-9F20-DC19B67B1619@gmail.com> To: =?utf-8?Q?Roger_J=C3=B8rgensen?= Archived-At: Cc: LISP mailing list list Subject: Re: [lisp] Fwd: New Version Notification for draft-farinacci-lisp-eid-anonymity-00.txt X-BeenThere: lisp@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.17 Precedence: list List-Id: List for the discussion of the Locator/ID Separation Protocol List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 01 Jun 2016 22:41:32 -0000 > On Jun 1, 2016, at 5:54 PM, Roger J=C3=B8rgensen wrote:= >=20 > haven't yet got into the details of it, but if it does what the title say w= e got > - privacy > - integrity > - crypt > - scalability Yep with no protocol changes. Just a description of the elements of procedur= es when an ephemeral-EID changes.=20 > . what are we missing in LISP now? > (except implementation from more vendors) We really need to rest DDT at very large scale. Not only to verify the scale= but to test the convergence properties.=20 Dino= From nobody Thu Jun 2 09:18:44 2016 Return-Path: X-Original-To: lisp@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: lisp@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3312512B05A; Thu, 2 Jun 2016 09:18:43 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.7 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.7 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW=-0.7, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=gmail.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id kUZMJKJAUkzB; Thu, 2 Jun 2016 09:18:41 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail-yw0-x22c.google.com (mail-yw0-x22c.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:4002:c05::22c]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 5F47312D18B; Thu, 2 Jun 2016 09:18:41 -0700 (PDT) Received: by mail-yw0-x22c.google.com with SMTP id c127so54704044ywb.1; Thu, 02 Jun 2016 09:18:41 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20120113; h=mime-version:subject:from:in-reply-to:date:cc :content-transfer-encoding:message-id:references:to; bh=0zV5ZZxHmSshZz1U/NfAMmIJ63qm76Uq5O1pLGCqRUs=; b=RsYdf1DAOSb5tYn4h2Hb+RdykJNQ4du2zBZRJ7ZaqMF5WUFNCmFBBnFcxV7cuvVaEF gdFWC+YsfaQgNH4jrY6C52gtNJ/+X5rR0YKsO/1tGstrYLortrGXq+43koSFMl9kNFWj Cvbqvi//gZBcPZxwwnO6q5gBeysItb4r9kettJqzeQDpW6fCBJYaVG9pce5elHDat43R 3csYjJDNkKWOZRaMOVlAQYCs2sPpDIZ7l1S9N1l7kgGOV78mv8SPUMD/E/f6D+hzo+HT 0u4Ocim2j4ouyt9WZTPRKvnPzWGQmYR9Y6UfpXej4jRV/gJB38lPbFsHkxEls7uY2mn2 +rVg== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20130820; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:subject:from:in-reply-to:date:cc :content-transfer-encoding:message-id:references:to; bh=0zV5ZZxHmSshZz1U/NfAMmIJ63qm76Uq5O1pLGCqRUs=; b=Xc+qlgg7027HYLp5eL3AbDdDRUHUoOQEeTUwCFwLomNnj0hnB0Z26PfRiIejV25Iot aMxxj0PEsbJa5DZtKGkGibUV7QjdWx/ndEnRpq0qKq179TbbkLQGd91hCVHEnkLjvRCp 3rb7DHKYo4xmwpQxVVc+tt8DtAx73P+hVj0M+bzCGScp8E9kDCl9EIY9iSmdtprPVel5 Ry08SwqOn7eDMjbLSagP07HATyjQuCCCQsLZHl34eX4aARoT4eOpy2pZ78EZAeib6yi6 HpkEMfgYq7O83ioZEsWXksjaIyER5ACyu0ogS0S7kLW3udumE1Z6VhVHnphUuzw17Pyy Qk6g== X-Gm-Message-State: ALyK8tIKtkYW+gDJxU9ndoinbgjhju8JpZ+nXaDZIR49/AFHeSzdH/RvTFCBV+zrDIsYxg== X-Received: by 10.13.221.142 with SMTP id g136mr6256089ywe.238.1464884320639; Thu, 02 Jun 2016 09:18:40 -0700 (PDT) Received: from [192.168.0.153] (50-81-93-18.client.mchsi.com. [50.81.93.18]) by smtp.gmail.com with ESMTPSA id w192sm645311ywd.34.2016.06.02.09.18.39 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=OTHER); Thu, 02 Jun 2016 09:18:40 -0700 (PDT) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 9.3 \(3124\)) From: Dino Farinacci In-Reply-To: Date: Thu, 2 Jun 2016 09:18:23 -0700 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Message-Id: <85D2EE99-2064-45B5-9F11-F4DCD4B2D5C6@gmail.com> References: <8CCB28152EA2E14A96BBEDC15823481A09E4D861@dfweml501-mbx> To: Stig Venaas X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.3124) Archived-At: Cc: LISP mailing list list , pim@ietf.org Subject: Re: [lisp] [pim] WGLC draft-ietf-pim-join-attributes-for-lisp-03 X-BeenThere: lisp@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.17 Precedence: list List-Id: List for the discussion of the Locator/ID Separation Protocol List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 02 Jun 2016 16:18:43 -0000 > We're doing a last call on this document in the pim wg right now. As > this is used to support LISP multicast (RFC 6831) we would appreciate > review and feedback from the lisp wg as well. This document has been > presented and discussed in the lisp wg before. I have some comments. See inline. > To support mobility of EIDs, the root xTR must keep track of ALL > receiver RLOCs even when the corresponding downstream site has not > requested unicast replication. The root xTR may detect that a = local > multicast source "root-EID" has moved to a remote LISP site. Under > such circumstances LISP sends a SMR message to all receiver xTRs, > prompting them to update their map cache. This is only possible if > LISP can obtain from PIM the set of all receiver RLOCS that have > active Join state for the root-EID. This paragraph does not make it clear if the EID that is moving is the = root-EID or the receiver host that moves to another LISP site where = there may be a new receiver-RLOC for head-end replication. The reason I say that is because the way the paragraph starts, but as it = continues, it is referring to the root-EID changing. And when you say = =E2=80=9CLISP sends a SMR message=E2=80=9D it doesn=E2=80=99t say if the = old root-xTR sends it or the new root-xTR the root-EID move into does. So are you trying to inform the receiver-xTRs to tell the new root-xTR = about some new state? Like for instance, start joining the (root-RLOC, = G) in the underlay? If so, this paragraph I thought was for head-end = replication. So in any event, I=E2=80=99m completely confused on (1) what event is = occurring, and (2) what the mechanism is and (3) why you are doing the = action you are doing. Dino= From nobody Thu Jun 2 11:09:12 2016 Return-Path: X-Original-To: lisp@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: lisp@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id AF6A312B04C; Thu, 2 Jun 2016 11:09:07 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -8.326 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-8.326 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_HI=-5, RP_MATCHES_RCVD=-1.426] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 068xYN7sL5jT; Thu, 2 Jun 2016 11:09:06 -0700 (PDT) Received: from boreas.isi.edu (boreas.isi.edu [128.9.160.161]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 111AC12B022; Thu, 2 Jun 2016 11:09:06 -0700 (PDT) Received: from [128.9.184.178] ([128.9.184.178]) (authenticated bits=0) by boreas.isi.edu (8.13.8/8.13.8) with ESMTP id u52I8JFa001915 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES128-SHA bits=128 verify=NOT); Thu, 2 Jun 2016 11:08:21 -0700 (PDT) To: otroan@employees.org, Xuxiaohu References: <573E2A0E.1060609@isi.edu> <1FEE3F8F5CCDE64C9A8E8F4AD27C19EE0D54EB60@NKGEML515-MBX.china.huawei.com> <573F453C.5060908@isi.edu> <1FEE3F8F5CCDE64C9A8E8F4AD27C19EE0D554B73@NKGEML515-MBS.china.huawei.com> <5743303C.5040109@isi.edu> <1FEE3F8F5CCDE64C9A8E8F4AD27C19EE0D55514C@NKGEML515-MBS.china.huawei.com> <5743DD16.3050506@isi.edu> <1FEE3F8F5CCDE64C9A8E8F4AD27C19EE0D555482@NKGEML515-MBS.china.huawei.com> <57448C14.2060203@isi.edu> <1FEE3F8F5CCDE64C9A8E8F4AD27C19EE0D5557DE@NKGEML515-MBS.china.huawei.com> <9c462520-eb8e-fcd0-0a08-228f80fbc779@isi.edu> <1FEE3F8F5CCDE64C9A8E8F4AD27C19EE0D5596E0@NKGEML515-MBS.china.huawei.com> <8790AF6F-CCD6-43AC-A50E-957B037643F1@employees.org> From: Joe Touch Message-ID: <57507611.5010801@isi.edu> Date: Thu, 2 Jun 2016 11:08:17 -0700 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 6.3; WOW64; rv:38.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/38.7.2 MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: <8790AF6F-CCD6-43AC-A50E-957B037643F1@employees.org> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=windows-1252 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-ISI-4-43-8-MailScanner: Found to be clean X-MailScanner-From: touch@isi.edu Archived-At: Cc: Softwires WG , "nvo3@ietf.org" , "int-area@ietf.org" , "lisp@ietf.org" , "tsvwg@ietf.org" Subject: Re: [lisp] [nvo3] [Softwires] Is it feasible to perform fragmentation on UDP encapsulated packets. X-BeenThere: lisp@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.17 Precedence: list List-Id: List for the discussion of the Locator/ID Separation Protocol List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 02 Jun 2016 18:09:08 -0000 On 5/27/2016 3:50 AM, otroan@employees.org wrote: > It is not possible to implement reassembly complying with IETF RFCs. a) ATM does this at ridiculously high fragment rates. Granted IP frags can come out of order, but the fragments are generally much larger. b) What is the alternative, given we have minimum MTU requirements? If you're limiting yourself to IPv4 payloads where DF=0, sure, there there is an alternative. But you've just disabled IPv6 and IPv4 with DF=1. I.e., it's not possible to NOT implement this and comply with IETF RFCs. Joe From nobody Thu Jun 2 14:17:09 2016 Return-Path: X-Original-To: lisp@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: lisp@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id E87C212D8AA; Thu, 2 Jun 2016 14:17:02 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -5.647 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-5.647 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-2.3, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_H3=-0.01, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_WL=-0.01, RP_MATCHES_RCVD=-1.426, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id LbeKeLPLCmaK; Thu, 2 Jun 2016 14:17:00 -0700 (PDT) Received: from blv-mbsout-01.boeing.com (blv-mbsout-01.boeing.com [130.76.32.231]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 9A6DD12D8A2; Thu, 2 Jun 2016 14:17:00 -0700 (PDT) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by blv-mbsout-01.boeing.com (8.14.4/8.14.4/DOWNSTREAM_MBSOUT) with SMTP id u52LHBJa011253; Thu, 2 Jun 2016 14:17:11 -0700 Received: from XCH15-05-05.nw.nos.boeing.com (xch15-05-05.nw.nos.boeing.com [137.137.100.80]) by blv-mbsout-01.boeing.com (8.14.4/8.14.4/UPSTREAM_MBSOUT) with ESMTP id u52LH6TG011226 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Thu, 2 Jun 2016 14:17:06 -0700 Received: from XCH15-05-05.nw.nos.boeing.com (2002:8989:6450::8989:6450) by XCH15-05-05.nw.nos.boeing.com (2002:8989:6450::8989:6450) with Microsoft SMTP Server (TLS) id 15.0.1178.4; Thu, 2 Jun 2016 14:16:53 -0700 Received: from XCH15-05-05.nw.nos.boeing.com ([137.137.100.80]) by XCH15-05-05.nw.nos.boeing.com ([137.137.100.80]) with mapi id 15.00.1178.000; Thu, 2 Jun 2016 14:16:53 -0700 From: "Templin, Fred L" To: Joe Touch , "otroan@employees.org" , Xuxiaohu Thread-Topic: [Int-area] [nvo3] [Softwires] Is it feasible to perform fragmentation on UDP encapsulated packets. Thread-Index: AQHRvPnkfjHsPaf//UOpMMLUhxA5mJ/Wra5A Date: Thu, 2 Jun 2016 21:16:53 +0000 Message-ID: References: <573E2A0E.1060609@isi.edu> <1FEE3F8F5CCDE64C9A8E8F4AD27C19EE0D54EB60@NKGEML515-MBX.china.huawei.com> <573F453C.5060908@isi.edu> <1FEE3F8F5CCDE64C9A8E8F4AD27C19EE0D554B73@NKGEML515-MBS.china.huawei.com> <5743303C.5040109@isi.edu> <1FEE3F8F5CCDE64C9A8E8F4AD27C19EE0D55514C@NKGEML515-MBS.china.huawei.com> <5743DD16.3050506@isi.edu> <1FEE3F8F5CCDE64C9A8E8F4AD27C19EE0D555482@NKGEML515-MBS.china.huawei.com> <57448C14.2060203@isi.edu> <1FEE3F8F5CCDE64C9A8E8F4AD27C19EE0D5557DE@NKGEML515-MBS.china.huawei.com> <9c462520-eb8e-fcd0-0a08-228f80fbc779@isi.edu> <1FEE3F8F5CCDE64C9A8E8F4AD27C19EE0D5596E0@NKGEML515-MBS.china.huawei.com> <8790AF6F-CCD6-43AC-A50E-957B037643F1@employees.org> <57507611.5010801@isi.edu> In-Reply-To: <57507611.5010801@isi.edu> Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-ms-exchange-transport-fromentityheader: Hosted x-originating-ip: [137.137.12.6] Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable MIME-Version: 1.0 X-TM-AS-MML: disable Archived-At: Cc: Softwires WG , "nvo3@ietf.org" , "int-area@ietf.org" , "lisp@ietf.org" , "tsvwg@ietf.org" Subject: Re: [lisp] [Int-area] [nvo3] [Softwires] Is it feasible to perform fragmentation on UDP encapsulated packets. X-BeenThere: lisp@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.17 Precedence: list List-Id: List for the discussion of the Locator/ID Separation Protocol List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 02 Jun 2016 21:17:03 -0000 Agree with Joe, and also just to mention that RFC4459 discusses tunnel MTU and fragmentation considerations. Thanks - Fred > -----Original Message----- > From: Int-area [mailto:int-area-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of Joe Touch > Sent: Thursday, June 02, 2016 11:08 AM > To: otroan@employees.org; Xuxiaohu > Cc: Softwires WG ; nvo3@ietf.org; int-area@ietf.org; = lisp@ietf.org; tsvwg@ietf.org > Subject: Re: [Int-area] [nvo3] [Softwires] Is it feasible to perform frag= mentation on UDP encapsulated packets. >=20 >=20 >=20 > On 5/27/2016 3:50 AM, otroan@employees.org wrote: > > It is not possible to implement reassembly complying with IETF RFCs. >=20 > a) ATM does this at ridiculously high fragment rates. Granted IP frags > can come out of order, but the fragments are generally much larger. >=20 > b) What is the alternative, given we have minimum MTU requirements? >=20 > If you're limiting yourself to IPv4 payloads where DF=3D0, sure, there > there is an alternative. But you've just disabled IPv6 and IPv4 with DF= =3D1. >=20 > I.e., it's not possible to NOT implement this and comply with IETF RFCs. >=20 > Joe >=20 >=20 >=20 > _______________________________________________ > Int-area mailing list > Int-area@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/int-area From nobody Thu Jun 2 16:58:45 2016 Return-Path: X-Original-To: lisp@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: lisp@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 090DA12D616; Thu, 2 Jun 2016 16:58:41 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -15.946 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-15.946 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_HI=-5, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_H3=-0.01, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_WL=-0.01, RP_MATCHES_RCVD=-1.426, SPF_PASS=-0.001, USER_IN_DEF_DKIM_WL=-7.5] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (1024-bit key) header.d=cisco.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id wEyWqln0jJeN; Thu, 2 Jun 2016 16:58:38 -0700 (PDT) Received: from alln-iport-2.cisco.com (alln-iport-2.cisco.com [173.37.142.89]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher DHE-RSA-SEED-SHA (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 9A17612D603; Thu, 2 Jun 2016 16:58:38 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/simple; d=cisco.com; i=@cisco.com; l=10012; q=dns/txt; s=iport; t=1464911918; x=1466121518; h=from:to:subject:date:message-id:mime-version; bh=pEL63MDO5kQJQTz8L9sC7D0p4gtVWJG/kRd+qJkytHg=; b=mkePo3aybTSj/VyGy/oR7HNwkwAxbe5+KLET46gnE9GFCiF0HWbjpUbh LgzwXGsvA0DD9onwPagYiI1FQTKfVFZoeik20WAE1QZrpYv/0HEilPjdX YH6B0M5R1f/GORgvLBn6rBtqmgFFMpzGgutStJ5YIWkCwKlZx1CS4MPJm o=; X-IronPort-Anti-Spam-Filtered: true X-IronPort-Anti-Spam-Result: =?us-ascii?q?A0A1AgBlx1BX/5ldJa1egm1NVoEDtUuCa?= =?us-ascii?q?oIPgXmHRzgUAQEBAQEBAWUnhEYBBAEtUQ0BCHgmAQQBGogfCMJdAQEBAQEFAQE?= =?us-ascii?q?BAQEBAQEfhieETYoaBZg4AYZvhymBcI0zhjOJGAEeNoIHHIFLimt/AQEB?= X-IronPort-AV: E=Sophos;i="5.26,409,1459814400"; d="scan'208,217";a="279571763" Received: from rcdn-core-2.cisco.com ([173.37.93.153]) by alln-iport-2.cisco.com with ESMTP/TLS/DHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384; 02 Jun 2016 23:58:37 +0000 Received: from XCH-ALN-010.cisco.com (xch-aln-010.cisco.com [173.36.7.20]) by rcdn-core-2.cisco.com (8.14.5/8.14.5) with ESMTP id u52NwbKm003330 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Thu, 2 Jun 2016 23:58:37 GMT Received: from xch-aln-008.cisco.com (173.36.7.18) by XCH-ALN-010.cisco.com (173.36.7.20) with Microsoft SMTP Server (TLS) id 15.0.1104.5; Thu, 2 Jun 2016 18:58:36 -0500 Received: from xch-aln-008.cisco.com ([173.36.7.18]) by XCH-ALN-008.cisco.com ([173.36.7.18]) with mapi id 15.00.1104.009; Thu, 2 Jun 2016 18:58:36 -0500 From: "Jesus Arango (jearango)" To: Dino Farinacci , "pim@ietf.org" , "lisp@ietf.org" , "Stig Venaas (svenaas)" Thread-Topic: Re: [lisp] [pim] WGLC draft-ietf-pim-join-attributes-for-lisp-03 Thread-Index: AdG9Jym58u0x1P1uR625NPI8omge+w== Date: Thu, 2 Jun 2016 23:58:36 +0000 Message-ID: Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-ms-exchange-transport-fromentityheader: Hosted x-originating-ip: [10.24.25.132] Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="_000_ead4d10adfe946f3afaae63b784d301eXCHALN008ciscocom_" MIME-Version: 1.0 Archived-At: Subject: Re: [lisp] [pim] WGLC draft-ietf-pim-join-attributes-for-lisp-03 X-BeenThere: lisp@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.17 Precedence: list List-Id: List for the discussion of the Locator/ID Separation Protocol List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 02 Jun 2016 23:58:41 -0000 --_000_ead4d10adfe946f3afaae63b784d301eXCHALN008ciscocom_ Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hi Dino, The paragraph refers to the root EID moving. Do you think the following cor= rections are sufficient? To support mobile multicast sources, the root xTR must keep track of ALL re= ceiver RLOCs even when the corresponding receiver XTRs have not requested u= nicast replication. If the root xTR detects that the root-EID has moved to= a new root xTR, it sends an SMR message to all receiver xTRs, prompting t= hem to update their map cache. This is only possible if LISP can obtain f= rom PIM the set of all receiver RLOCS that have active Join state for the r= oot-EID. Thanks Jesus > We're doing a last call on this document in the pim wg right now. As > this is used to support LISP multicast (RFC 6831) we would appreciate > review and feedback from the lisp wg as well. This document has been > presented and discussed in the lisp wg before. I have some comments. See inline. > To support mobility of EIDs, the root xTR must keep track of ALL > receiver RLOCs even when the corresponding downstream site has not > requested unicast replication. The root xTR may detect that a local > multicast source "root-EID" has moved to a remote LISP site. Under > such circumstances LISP sends a SMR message to all receiver xTRs, > prompting them to update their map cache. This is only possible if > LISP can obtain from PIM the set of all receiver RLOCS that have > active Join state for the root-EID. This paragraph does not make it clear if the EID that is moving is the root= -EID or the receiver host that moves to another LISP site where there may b= e a new receiver-RLOC for head-end replication. The reason I say that is because the way the paragraph starts, but as it co= ntinues, it is referring to the root-EID changing. And when you say "LISP s= ends a SMR message" it doesn't say if the old root-xTR sends it or the new = root-xTR the root-EID move into does. So are you trying to inform the receiver-xTRs to tell the new root-xTR abou= t some new state? Like for instance, start joining the (root-RLOC, G) in th= e underlay? If so, this paragraph I thought was for head-end replication. So in any event, I'm completely confused on (1) what event is occurring, an= d (2) what the mechanism is and (3) why you are doing the action you are do= ing. Dino --_000_ead4d10adfe946f3afaae63b784d301eXCHALN008ciscocom_ Content-Type: text/html; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

Hi Dino,=

 

The paragraph refer= s to the root EID moving. Do you think the following corrections are suffic= ient?

 

To support mobile m= ulticast sources, the root xTR must keep track of ALL receiver RLOCs even w= hen the corresponding receiver XTRs have not requested unicast replication.=   If the root xTR detects that the root-EID has moved to a new root xTR, it sends an SMR message to all receiver xTRs,=   prompting them to update their map cache.  This is only possibl= e if  LISP can obtain from PIM the set of all receiver RLOCS that have= active Join state for the root-EID.

 

Thanks

Jesus

 

 

 

> We're doing a = last call on this document in the pim wg right now. As

> this is used t= o support LISP multicast (RFC 6831) we would appreciate

> review and fee= dback from the lisp wg as well. This document has been

> presented and = discussed in the lisp wg before.

 

I have some comment= s. See inline.

 

>  &nb= sp; To support mobility of EIDs, the root xTR must keep track of ALL

>  &nb= sp; receiver RLOCs even when the corresponding downstream site has not=

>  &nb= sp; requested unicast replication.  The root xTR may detect that a loc= al

>  &nb= sp; multicast source "root-EID" has moved to a remote LISP site.&= nbsp; Under

>  &nb= sp; such circumstances LISP sends a SMR message to all receiver xTRs,<= /o:p>

>  &nb= sp; prompting them to update their map cache.  This is only possible i= f

>  &nb= sp; LISP can obtain from PIM the set of all receiver RLOCS that have

>  &nb= sp; active Join state for the root-EID.

 

This paragraph does= not make it clear if the EID that is moving is the root-EID or the receive= r host that moves to another LISP site where there may be a new receiver-RL= OC for head-end replication.

 

The reason I say th= at is because the way the paragraph starts, but as it continues, it is refe= rring to the root-EID changing. And when you say “LISP sends a SMR me= ssage” it doesn’t say if the old root-xTR sends it or the new root-xTR the root-EID move into does.

 

So are you trying t= o inform the receiver-xTRs to tell the new root-xTR about some new state? L= ike for instance, start joining the (root-RLOC, G) in the underlay? If so, = this paragraph I thought was for head-end replication.

 

So in any event, I&= #8217;m completely confused on (1) what event is occurring, and (2) what th= e mechanism is and (3) why you are doing the action you are doing.

 

Dino

--_000_ead4d10adfe946f3afaae63b784d301eXCHALN008ciscocom_-- From nobody Thu Jun 2 17:36:02 2016 Return-Path: X-Original-To: lisp@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: lisp@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3A6BE12D0AB; Thu, 2 Jun 2016 17:36:00 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.7 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.7 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW=-0.7, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=gmail.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id A9mApWyx72UN; Thu, 2 Jun 2016 17:35:49 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail-qg0-x234.google.com (mail-qg0-x234.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:400d:c04::234]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 6358112D53F; Thu, 2 Jun 2016 17:35:44 -0700 (PDT) Received: by mail-qg0-x234.google.com with SMTP id 93so4763789qgx.2; Thu, 02 Jun 2016 17:35:44 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20120113; h=mime-version:subject:from:in-reply-to:date:cc :content-transfer-encoding:message-id:references:to; bh=rXO83IgXUcPO+5DkjaERZf1hr4Al1XnbdTrvgY1SaiQ=; b=S801XGbS0VAklQz6s9Dg2I0SGajKK+RgWj3V1GocE/KNR6AknWr+2exry5nSCLdqOS xubYhxrXwmt7mhU4JB8ElOwhTnJrTT9kQwY9GbEQdPlsxLRG3YwuDd8q0oTA5pyz+jDl 4TWUHUczO0bmQGUl9GQE6eccHHutGOKi43N5YxBINAizSh/7NvmWKzJNPliDYIeOyeU8 0fqXDWdo6QkDN5rIHJT71reVnOyyGBLKcNkPgMjycilmDy88ENKDbWg3aj3t8IxAGmAR p5nBSbl72J0P3dj7RWgW8rCQCRugI4Z1oi4/Rd3Tnx5YAIzqJzaE7EiVqrL0xpVlKHDK +BAQ== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20130820; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:subject:from:in-reply-to:date:cc :content-transfer-encoding:message-id:references:to; bh=rXO83IgXUcPO+5DkjaERZf1hr4Al1XnbdTrvgY1SaiQ=; b=Q1F+U3ITeNmsiUyQHoC6ULCL2VLIfm7z+/N1Xf4grnigiTkIicjitFU+xPZywPStMy 8+4UxtJsY9b10uUlLbWgUOfpym0CVaSOzw7SsfLmMwfRVir/TY6pNv/cMPN9bHROCclY 1I8EeH64v4QJsQlTKP1zG0bkgNyrBuRMA/0EPgJ2zGsn9yuILx7o6JVsXI5yXg4BZKTu +AjUuG+1X6kW4uyWAbDzhAAvfMIoniZ//7oPGJAprvP3VGIsDhq+/q2SHUln/DcT4eb3 yQf2H7UJoz4mU1GpfkFc2fDr8xzzTc82/jduo4489xLSWJQ4fjzSNFe+B6eD41f0eFeG sJOA== X-Gm-Message-State: ALyK8tIvoRztANiMXbMDpXbj7+im2EgCZWIBasHQdpQj/87EMzusXxbZD3BijEMZ3MsO4g== X-Received: by 10.140.38.145 with SMTP id t17mr865739qgt.10.1464914143569; Thu, 02 Jun 2016 17:35:43 -0700 (PDT) Received: from [10.22.113.189] ([166.170.34.78]) by smtp.gmail.com with ESMTPSA id o128sm380635qkb.40.2016.06.02.17.35.42 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=OTHER); Thu, 02 Jun 2016 17:35:43 -0700 (PDT) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Mime-Version: 1.0 (1.0) From: Dino Farinacci X-Mailer: iPhone Mail (13F69) In-Reply-To: Date: Thu, 2 Jun 2016 20:35:42 -0400 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Message-Id: <0FAB6A25-739D-462D-BE0B-7768BCD04753@gmail.com> References: To: "Jesus Arango (jearango)" Archived-At: Cc: "lisp@ietf.org" , "pim@ietf.org" , "Stig Venaas \(svenaas\)" Subject: Re: [lisp] [pim] WGLC draft-ietf-pim-join-attributes-for-lisp-03 X-BeenThere: lisp@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.17 Precedence: list List-Id: List for the discussion of the Locator/ID Separation Protocol List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 03 Jun 2016 00:36:00 -0000 > To support mobile multicast sources, the root xTR must keep track of ALL r= eceiver RLOCs even when the corresponding receiver XTRs have not requested u= nicast It is better for clarity of the text. Now I will comment on the design.=20 > replication. If the root xTR detects that the root-EID has moved to a new= root xTR, it sends an SMR message to all receiver xTRs, =20 You don't need SMRs. You can use Map-Notify messages from the map-server. It= converges better.=20 See draft-ietf-lisp-signal-free-multicast for details. The same machinery can be used. And it is simple.=20 > prompting them to update their map cache. =20 Receiver xTRs are receiving and decapsulating packets. They are ETRs. They d= on't have map-caches. So this doesn't make sense.=20 > This is only possible if LISP can obtain from PIM the set of all receiver= RLOCS that have active Join state for the root-EID. Well they could register to the mapping system. That is where all receiver x= TRs can be tracked (and perhaps not used for forwarding like it is in draft-= ietf-lisp-signal-free-multicast).=20 So try again.=20 Dino= From nobody Thu Jun 2 18:26:47 2016 Return-Path: X-Original-To: lisp@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: lisp@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id A1D4812D5D7; Thu, 2 Jun 2016 18:26:43 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -15.947 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-15.947 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_HI=-5, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_H3=-0.01, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_WL=-0.01, RP_MATCHES_RCVD=-1.426, SPF_PASS=-0.001, USER_IN_DEF_DKIM_WL=-7.5] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (1024-bit key) header.d=cisco.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id zhYfwdYmtUzO; Thu, 2 Jun 2016 18:26:41 -0700 (PDT) Received: from alln-iport-1.cisco.com (alln-iport-1.cisco.com [173.37.142.88]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher DHE-RSA-SEED-SHA (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id ADA2412D5B7; Thu, 2 Jun 2016 18:26:41 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/simple; d=cisco.com; i=@cisco.com; l=2269; q=dns/txt; s=iport; t=1464917201; x=1466126801; h=from:to:cc:subject:date:message-id:references: in-reply-to:content-transfer-encoding:mime-version; bh=eqn4O8g/YpieR+wuuTBDUzoBA4OuiaO0dbwUhIxgl+Q=; b=AJ9R5oampgVNHE+N3Pi7jxVKnrVEA/JfQoRDgBhRD5bCcY+sEN4HaHHv C9xrPFXMDIAHuRZtQjIM2RSq2awQ4yYUQK/BccsAGSsJ8Ba2+LzHtlyK3 SUvCMIK5dyT3xY8vSQk9R9HbmIob1oFosGvMZreRXvgrikuXjN2bXYjoE w=; X-IronPort-Anti-Spam-Filtered: true X-IronPort-Anti-Spam-Result: =?us-ascii?q?A0ABAgCA3FBX/4YNJK1egzqBUwauVolgg?= =?us-ascii?q?g+BeYYSAoE2OBQBAQEBAQEBZSeERQEBAQMBOj8FBwQCAQgRBAEBHwkHIREUCQg?= =?us-ascii?q?CBA4FCIgNAw8IvjwNhB8BAQEBAQEBAQEBAQEBAQEBAQEBAQEchieETYJDgWeFc?= =?us-ascii?q?AWYBTMBjCaBcoFwjTOGM4Exh2cBHjaCBxyBS26JfX8BAQE?= X-IronPort-AV: E=Sophos;i="5.26,409,1459814400"; d="scan'208";a="281175955" Received: from alln-core-12.cisco.com ([173.36.13.134]) by alln-iport-1.cisco.com with ESMTP/TLS/DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA; 03 Jun 2016 01:26:20 +0000 Received: from XCH-ALN-009.cisco.com (xch-aln-009.cisco.com [173.36.7.19]) by alln-core-12.cisco.com (8.14.5/8.14.5) with ESMTP id u531QKJX010263 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Fri, 3 Jun 2016 01:26:20 GMT Received: from xch-aln-008.cisco.com (173.36.7.18) by XCH-ALN-009.cisco.com (173.36.7.19) with Microsoft SMTP Server (TLS) id 15.0.1104.5; Thu, 2 Jun 2016 20:26:19 -0500 Received: from xch-aln-008.cisco.com ([173.36.7.18]) by XCH-ALN-008.cisco.com ([173.36.7.18]) with mapi id 15.00.1104.009; Thu, 2 Jun 2016 20:26:19 -0500 From: "Jesus Arango (jearango)" To: Dino Farinacci Thread-Topic: [lisp] [pim] WGLC draft-ietf-pim-join-attributes-for-lisp-03 Thread-Index: AQHRvS/rP5y/rkLukEibTEvdyF5U2p/W6s5w Date: Fri, 3 Jun 2016 01:26:19 +0000 Message-ID: References: <0FAB6A25-739D-462D-BE0B-7768BCD04753@gmail.com> In-Reply-To: <0FAB6A25-739D-462D-BE0B-7768BCD04753@gmail.com> Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-ms-exchange-transport-fromentityheader: Hosted x-originating-ip: [10.24.25.132] Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable MIME-Version: 1.0 Archived-At: Cc: "lisp@ietf.org" , "pim@ietf.org" , "Stig Venaas \(svenaas\)" Subject: Re: [lisp] [pim] WGLC draft-ietf-pim-join-attributes-for-lisp-03 X-BeenThere: lisp@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.17 Precedence: list List-Id: List for the discussion of the Locator/ID Separation Protocol List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 03 Jun 2016 01:26:43 -0000 Hi Dino, I don't think map-notifies are relevant in the context of this draft. Keep = in mind that this draft is written for "pim-signaled" head-end replication.= In your "signal-free" draft, map-notifies are the correct message because = you are tracking changes in the set of receiver RLOCS and that translates i= nto changes in the merged RLOC set. In this draft, we are tracking changes = in source EID location and the proper message for that is an SMR. The receivers do have map-caches. They have a map-cache entry mapping the s= ource EID to the RLOC of the source XTR. This is the map-cache entry that w= e want the SMR to refresh. The creation of this map-cache was not triggered= by traffic. It was triggered by an RPF lookup by PIM in the receiver XTR. Jesus -----Original Message----- From: Dino Farinacci [mailto:farinacci@gmail.com]=20 Sent: Thursday, June 2, 2016 5:36 PM To: Jesus Arango (jearango) Cc: pim@ietf.org; lisp@ietf.org; Stig Venaas (svenaas) Subject: Re: [lisp] [pim] WGLC draft-ietf-pim-join-attributes-for-lisp-03 > To support mobile multicast sources, the root xTR must keep track of=20 > ALL receiver RLOCs even when the corresponding receiver XTRs have not=20 > requested unicast It is better for clarity of the text. Now I will comment on the design.=20 > replication. If the root xTR detects that the root-EID has moved to a=20 > new root xTR, it sends an SMR message to all receiver xTRs, You don't need SMRs. You can use Map-Notify messages from the map-server. I= t converges better.=20 See draft-ietf-lisp-signal-free-multicast for details. The same machinery c= an be used. And it is simple.=20 > prompting them to update their map cache. =20 Receiver xTRs are receiving and decapsulating packets. They are ETRs. They = don't have map-caches. So this doesn't make sense.=20 > This is only possible if LISP can obtain from PIM the set of all receive= r RLOCS that have active Join state for the root-EID. Well they could register to the mapping system. That is where all receiver = xTRs can be tracked (and perhaps not used for forwarding like it is in draf= t-ietf-lisp-signal-free-multicast).=20 So try again.=20 Dino From nobody Thu Jun 2 19:47:02 2016 Return-Path: X-Original-To: lisp@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: lisp@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 11F8C12D131; Thu, 2 Jun 2016 19:47:02 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.7 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.7 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW=-0.7, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=gmail.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id RC_8Yyg57IeP; Thu, 2 Jun 2016 19:47:00 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail-qk0-x234.google.com (mail-qk0-x234.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:400d:c09::234]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 414D9128874; Thu, 2 Jun 2016 19:47:00 -0700 (PDT) Received: by mail-qk0-x234.google.com with SMTP id n63so48231911qkf.0; Thu, 02 Jun 2016 19:47:00 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20120113; h=mime-version:subject:from:in-reply-to:date:cc :content-transfer-encoding:message-id:references:to; bh=laie6fjvCJldzf8nSEdeABaEK1WDZaouDHRbHRnePYs=; b=g1IiB+3YQSd3FFovxxOfcrExdcvQpSK30038Bnd7Sc5lSvFoP8KvjzlTKShVjegn8A GZLgayxIu83p/b7L4WnsbcnprlehoAhTdz4x/Cbqp90GLMDYfkDuwIm5U3NgydhaurEe gf+nFdt4juIir6WbGro6vGwafdYUhyWgxF3N8fVdquz7cYXD3kf2Rp5JEhMK9UIOmXZ0 WQi6T70O5Kuk9vRH2ZoGyT4JQ4jJRgWGw1Yoa0lcR7SP34PqXSfkRbv5NMOUEp7nZS7i BNdEuSeqWqXZvsHisqU8nDH6aTt7J0viVVkfQfz2BRw/1djOGlDA+LUx3q38O+03XjUP mNqA== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20130820; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:subject:from:in-reply-to:date:cc :content-transfer-encoding:message-id:references:to; bh=laie6fjvCJldzf8nSEdeABaEK1WDZaouDHRbHRnePYs=; b=aQR/ef1wfeg5/HcEF1sbvVvXS6N63uYJQpir58dS8yKUmbHa/zQS6k/PnVWkQqWTju Jn9+/EvmUmjWh9kU2H3wMep+JiLz/eUymYMX2Keurw5WKJwAXhVFI5ZMyZ1rNJtsQ6Rl sPs11obmlY7ZrcP2vU8JB+CDtM+L/YSNl9v2GgRBC6pgjAmrw86O8EZxeuRN5qOQevIn 0/Im8OZD06V9a+X90w8iEw8q9OkNuPgC36TJlA9xKQ6qZNRJs6DwwYCXMYCs1b++wIV8 kt2O+6juewMKx9t2COA/bBi5cDyh3dmgrCj8COPuoQabL5lS5STcZ3ofTPl8dHcBPD8V vUAQ== X-Gm-Message-State: ALyK8tL3s7pUDDKq3xsEFFzg4UDwPnzkQnxpNbik+PmbBaoem8K6nIO90N/lz6YInBjqhw== X-Received: by 10.55.90.130 with SMTP id o124mr1219224qkb.178.1464922019365; Thu, 02 Jun 2016 19:46:59 -0700 (PDT) Received: from [10.22.113.189] ([166.170.34.78]) by smtp.gmail.com with ESMTPSA id h66sm516129qgh.15.2016.06.02.19.46.57 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=OTHER); Thu, 02 Jun 2016 19:46:57 -0700 (PDT) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Mime-Version: 1.0 (1.0) From: Dino Farinacci X-Mailer: iPhone Mail (13F69) In-Reply-To: Date: Thu, 2 Jun 2016 22:46:56 -0400 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Message-Id: <76C8DE6E-7E98-45BA-96FC-E25ABFF4EFDE@gmail.com> References: <0FAB6A25-739D-462D-BE0B-7768BCD04753@gmail.com> To: "Jesus Arango (jearango)" Archived-At: Cc: "lisp@ietf.org" , "pim@ietf.org" , "Stig Venaas \(svenaas\)" Subject: Re: [lisp] [pim] WGLC draft-ietf-pim-join-attributes-for-lisp-03 X-BeenThere: lisp@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.17 Precedence: list List-Id: List for the discussion of the Locator/ID Separation Protocol List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 03 Jun 2016 02:47:02 -0000 > I don't think map-notifies are relevant in the context of this draft. Keep= in mind that this draft is written for "pim-signaled" head-end replication.= In your "signal-free" draft, map-notifies are the correct message because y= ou are tracking changes in the set of receiver RLOCS and that translates int= o changes in the merged RLOC set. In this draft, we are tracking changes in s= ource EID location and the proper message for that is an SMR. I was thinking of using Map-Notifies in this application not in the signal-f= ree one.=20 What you do is have the root-xTR register as a receiver-xTR so when a move o= ccurs the new root-xTR changes which causes the map-server to trigger a Map-= Notify to each RLOC in the RLIC-set because there was an RLOC-set change.=20= > The receivers do have map-caches. They In this data forwarding direction, this is an ETR. ETRs have database-entrie= s which are registered. Used for decapsulation.=20 Mao-caches are used for encapsulation. There is no encapsulation in these re= ceiver-ETRs when data flows from a multicast source to the receivers the rec= eiver-ETR supports.=20 > have a map-cache entry mapping the source EID to the RLOC of the source XT= R. That is a map-cache entry in the root-ITR not in the ETRs.=20 > This is the map-cache entry that we want the SMR to refresh. The creation o= f this That is why this is backwards.=20 > map-cache was not triggered by traffic. It was triggered by an RPF lookup b= y PIM in the receiver XTR. Understand. But it should be called another data structure. Like an RPF data= structure, like a RIB is used in normal native routing.=20 In any event, if you don't clear up this text, it will be hard for anyone to= understand this.=20 Dino= From nobody Thu Jun 2 19:54:01 2016 Return-Path: X-Original-To: lisp@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: lisp@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5465912D131; Thu, 2 Jun 2016 19:53:52 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -5.647 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-5.647 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-2.3, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_H3=-0.01, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_WL=-0.01, RP_MATCHES_RCVD=-1.426, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id B7Jyu9rhZXhE; Thu, 2 Jun 2016 19:53:49 -0700 (PDT) Received: from lhrrgout.huawei.com (lhrrgout.huawei.com [194.213.3.17]) (using TLSv1 with cipher RC4-SHA (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 741A9128874; Thu, 2 Jun 2016 19:53:46 -0700 (PDT) Received: from 172.18.7.190 (EHLO lhreml707-cah.china.huawei.com) ([172.18.7.190]) by lhrrg02-dlp.huawei.com (MOS 4.3.7-GA FastPath queued) with ESMTP id CLH32864; Fri, 03 Jun 2016 02:53:44 +0000 (GMT) Received: from NKGEML413-HUB.china.huawei.com (10.98.56.74) by lhreml707-cah.china.huawei.com (10.201.5.199) with Microsoft SMTP Server (TLS) id 14.3.235.1; Fri, 3 Jun 2016 03:53:43 +0100 Received: from NKGEML515-MBS.china.huawei.com ([169.254.5.169]) by NKGEML413-HUB.china.huawei.com ([10.98.56.74]) with mapi id 14.03.0235.001; Fri, 3 Jun 2016 10:53:38 +0800 From: Xuxiaohu To: Joe Touch , "otroan@employees.org" Thread-Topic: [nvo3] [Softwires] Is it feasible to perform fragmentation on UDP encapsulated packets. Thread-Index: AQHRvPncHcsWng18N0qPKCUQaW4bNp/W96xA Date: Fri, 3 Jun 2016 02:53:37 +0000 Message-ID: <1FEE3F8F5CCDE64C9A8E8F4AD27C19EE0D55B2A4@NKGEML515-MBS.china.huawei.com> References: <573E2A0E.1060609@isi.edu> <1FEE3F8F5CCDE64C9A8E8F4AD27C19EE0D54EB60@NKGEML515-MBX.china.huawei.com> <573F453C.5060908@isi.edu> <1FEE3F8F5CCDE64C9A8E8F4AD27C19EE0D554B73@NKGEML515-MBS.china.huawei.com> <5743303C.5040109@isi.edu> <1FEE3F8F5CCDE64C9A8E8F4AD27C19EE0D55514C@NKGEML515-MBS.china.huawei.com> <5743DD16.3050506@isi.edu> <1FEE3F8F5CCDE64C9A8E8F4AD27C19EE0D555482@NKGEML515-MBS.china.huawei.com> <57448C14.2060203@isi.edu> <1FEE3F8F5CCDE64C9A8E8F4AD27C19EE0D5557DE@NKGEML515-MBS.china.huawei.com> <9c462520-eb8e-fcd0-0a08-228f80fbc779@isi.edu> <1FEE3F8F5CCDE64C9A8E8F4AD27C19EE0D5596E0@NKGEML515-MBS.china.huawei.com> <8790AF6F-CCD6-43AC-A50E-957B037643F1@employees.org> <57507611.5010801@isi.edu> In-Reply-To: <57507611.5010801@isi.edu> Accept-Language: zh-CN, en-US Content-Language: zh-CN X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-originating-ip: [10.111.99.55] Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable MIME-Version: 1.0 X-CFilter-Loop: Reflected X-Mirapoint-Virus-RAPID-Raw: score=unknown(0), refid=str=0001.0A020203.5750F138.01B3, ss=1, re=0.000, recu=0.000, reip=0.000, cl=1, cld=1, fgs=0, ip=169.254.5.169, so=2013-06-18 04:22:30, dmn=2013-03-21 17:37:32 X-Mirapoint-Loop-Id: b6ae068aa12793195ecad703a67f441c Archived-At: Cc: Softwires WG , "nvo3@ietf.org" , "int-area@ietf.org" , "lisp@ietf.org" , "tsvwg@ietf.org" Subject: Re: [lisp] [nvo3] [Softwires] Is it feasible to perform fragmentation on UDP encapsulated packets. X-BeenThere: lisp@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.17 Precedence: list List-Id: List for the discussion of the Locator/ID Separation Protocol List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 03 Jun 2016 02:53:52 -0000 > -----Original Message----- > From: Joe Touch [mailto:touch@isi.edu] > Sent: Friday, June 03, 2016 2:08 AM > To: otroan@employees.org; Xuxiaohu > Cc: Softwires WG; nvo3@ietf.org; int-area@ietf.org; lisp@ietf.org; > tsvwg@ietf.org > Subject: Re: [nvo3] [Softwires] Is it feasible to perform fragmentation o= n UDP > encapsulated packets. >=20 >=20 >=20 > On 5/27/2016 3:50 AM, otroan@employees.org wrote: > > It is not possible to implement reassembly complying with IETF RFCs. >=20 > a) ATM does this at ridiculously high fragment rates. Granted IP frags ca= n come > out of order, but the fragments are generally much larger. As pointed in RFC4459, "At the time of reassembly, all the information (i.e., all the fragments) is normally not available; when the first fragment arrives to be reassembled, a buffer of the maximum possible size may have to be allocated because the total length of the reassembled datagram is not known at that time. Furthermore, as fragments might get lost, or be reordered or delayed, the reassembly engine has to wait with the partial packet for some time (e.g., 60 seconds [9]). When this would have to be done at the line rate, with, for example 10 Gbit/s speed, the length of the buffers that reassembly might require would be prohibitive. " Have you heard the wide adoption of 622M (STM-1) beyond ATM interfaces betw= een ATM switches in the previous ATM networks? If not, the highest non-ATM = interface in the past ATM networks was the FE interface which is 100M bps (= around the year of 2000), If I remembered it correctly. Furthermore, have y= ou heard the reordering issue with ATM cells? If no, that means once an ATM= cell of a given ALL PDU gets lost, all the received ATM cells of that AAL = PDU would be dropped and therefore the reassembly buffer for that AAL datag= ram would be released. In other words, there is no need to wait for the los= t or reordered fragment for a certain period of time before releasing the r= eassembly buffer. Such behavior is not possible for IP fragmentation and re= assembly. Last but not least, there is no need to assign a reassembly buffe= r per AAL PDU (as opposed to per IP datagram in the IP fragmentation and re= assembly case), instead, only one reassembly buffer per VC since all cells = within a given VC would be received in order. Since the SAR is only needed = on the edge of the ATM networks, the number of VCs is very limited. In a wo= rd, there are significant differences between IP fragmentation and ATM SAR.= =20 Best regards, Xiaohu > b) What is the alternative, given we have minimum MTU requirements? >=20 > If you're limiting yourself to IPv4 payloads where DF=3D0, sure, there th= ere is an > alternative. But you've just disabled IPv6 and IPv4 with DF=3D1. >=20 > I.e., it's not possible to NOT implement this and comply with IETF RFCs. >=20 > Joe >=20 >=20 From nobody Thu Jun 2 21:35:01 2016 Return-Path: X-Original-To: lisp@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: lisp@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3854B12D1A0; Thu, 2 Jun 2016 21:34:57 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -8.326 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-8.326 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_HI=-5, RP_MATCHES_RCVD=-1.426] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id a3Tat0PeYypF; Thu, 2 Jun 2016 21:34:55 -0700 (PDT) Received: from boreas.isi.edu (boreas.isi.edu [128.9.160.161]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id AB5E312D15C; Thu, 2 Jun 2016 21:34:55 -0700 (PDT) Received: from [192.168.1.189] (cpe-172-250-251-17.socal.res.rr.com [172.250.251.17]) (authenticated bits=0) by boreas.isi.edu (8.13.8/8.13.8) with ESMTP id u534YTp3015947 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES128-SHA bits=128 verify=NOT); Thu, 2 Jun 2016 21:34:31 -0700 (PDT) To: Xuxiaohu , "otroan@employees.org" References: <573E2A0E.1060609@isi.edu> <1FEE3F8F5CCDE64C9A8E8F4AD27C19EE0D54EB60@NKGEML515-MBX.china.huawei.com> <573F453C.5060908@isi.edu> <1FEE3F8F5CCDE64C9A8E8F4AD27C19EE0D554B73@NKGEML515-MBS.china.huawei.com> <5743303C.5040109@isi.edu> <1FEE3F8F5CCDE64C9A8E8F4AD27C19EE0D55514C@NKGEML515-MBS.china.huawei.com> <5743DD16.3050506@isi.edu> <1FEE3F8F5CCDE64C9A8E8F4AD27C19EE0D555482@NKGEML515-MBS.china.huawei.com> <57448C14.2060203@isi.edu> <1FEE3F8F5CCDE64C9A8E8F4AD27C19EE0D5557DE@NKGEML515-MBS.china.huawei.com> <9c462520-eb8e-fcd0-0a08-228f80fbc779@isi.edu> <1FEE3F8F5CCDE64C9A8E8F4AD27C19EE0D5596E0@NKGEML515-MBS.china.huawei.com> <8790AF6F-CCD6-43AC-A50E-957B037643F1@employees.org> <57507611.5010801@isi.edu> <1FEE3F8F5CCDE64C9A8E8F4AD27C19EE0D55B2A4@NKGEML515-MBS.china.huawei.com> From: Joe Touch Message-ID: <575108D3.3010506@isi.edu> Date: Thu, 2 Jun 2016 21:34:27 -0700 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 6.3; WOW64; rv:38.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/38.7.2 MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: <1FEE3F8F5CCDE64C9A8E8F4AD27C19EE0D55B2A4@NKGEML515-MBS.china.huawei.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=windows-1252 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-ISI-4-43-8-MailScanner: Found to be clean X-MailScanner-From: touch@isi.edu Archived-At: Cc: Softwires WG , "nvo3@ietf.org" , "int-area@ietf.org" , "lisp@ietf.org" , "tsvwg@ietf.org" Subject: Re: [lisp] [nvo3] [Softwires] Is it feasible to perform fragmentation on UDP encapsulated packets. X-BeenThere: lisp@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.17 Precedence: list List-Id: List for the discussion of the Locator/ID Separation Protocol List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 03 Jun 2016 04:34:57 -0000 On 6/2/2016 7:53 PM, Xuxiaohu wrote: > >> -----Original Message----- >> From: Joe Touch [mailto:touch@isi.edu] >> Sent: Friday, June 03, 2016 2:08 AM >> To: otroan@employees.org; Xuxiaohu >> Cc: Softwires WG; nvo3@ietf.org; int-area@ietf.org; lisp@ietf.org; >> tsvwg@ietf.org >> Subject: Re: [nvo3] [Softwires] Is it feasible to perform fragmentation on UDP >> encapsulated packets. >> >> >> >> On 5/27/2016 3:50 AM, otroan@employees.org wrote: >>> It is not possible to implement reassembly complying with IETF RFCs. >> a) ATM does this at ridiculously high fragment rates. Granted IP frags can come >> out of order, but the fragments are generally much larger. > As pointed in RFC4459, > > "At the time of reassembly, all the information (i.e., all the > fragments) is normally not available; when the first fragment > arrives to be reassembled, a buffer of the maximum possible size > may have to be allocated because the total length of the > reassembled datagram is not known at that time. Furthermore, as > fragments might get lost, or be reordered or delayed, the > reassembly engine has to wait with the partial packet for some > time (e.g., 60 seconds [9]). When this would have to be done at > the line rate, with, for example 10 Gbit/s speed, the length of > the buffers that reassembly might require would be prohibitive. " Yes, but the alternative of declaring that you don't reassemble has a cost in terms of dropped segments too. Taking that drop into account, buffering for a smaller amount of potential reordering and accounting for reasonable reassembly sizes (for IPv6, the smallest "max" that's required is 1500) need not be prohibitive. > Have you heard the wide adoption of 622M (STM-1) beyond ATM interfaces between ATM switches in the previous ATM networks? If not, the highest non-ATM interface in the past ATM networks was the FE interface which is 100M bps (around the year of 2000), If I remembered it correctly. OC12 ATM NICs were commonly available in 1998. That was back when ethernet was pushing 100M and the only other near-gigabit tech was Myricom (a spin-off of USC/ISI and Caltech). I.e., with the tech available at that time, 600Mbps SAR was possible. > Furthermore, have you heard the reordering issue with ATM cells? If no, that means once an ATM cell of a given ALL PDU gets lost, all the received ATM cells of that AAL PDU would be dropped and therefore the reassembly buffer for that AAL datagram would be released. In other words, there is no need to wait for the lost or reordered fragment for a certain period of time before releasing the reassembly buffer. Reordered no, but just because they arrive in order does not mean they are required to arrive *adjacent*. The same requirement applies in terms of needing reassembly buffers for a number of interleaved segments. > Such behavior is not possible for IP fragmentation and reassembly. Last but not least, there is no need to assign a reassembly buffer per AAL PDU (as opposed to per IP datagram in the IP fragmentation and reassembly case), instead, only one reassembly buffer per VC since all cells within a given VC would be received in order. Since the SAR is only needed on the edge of the ATM networks, the number of VCs is very limited. You could easily decide to allocate a fixed number of reassembly buffers per IP flow to conserve resources too. The amount of reordering, together with the number of flows supported would determine your ability to avoid packet drops -- but recall that drops at high load are not unusual for IP. Joe From nobody Fri Jun 3 00:39:05 2016 Return-Path: X-Original-To: lisp@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: lisp@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1BB7512D670; Fri, 3 Jun 2016 00:38:51 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -5.647 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-5.647 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-2.3, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_H3=-0.01, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_WL=-0.01, RP_MATCHES_RCVD=-1.426, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id R3Qiwwov-_9K; Fri, 3 Jun 2016 00:38:49 -0700 (PDT) Received: from lhrrgout.huawei.com (lhrrgout.huawei.com [194.213.3.17]) (using TLSv1 with cipher RC4-SHA (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 16A9012D0DE; Fri, 3 Jun 2016 00:38:45 -0700 (PDT) Received: from 172.18.7.190 (EHLO lhreml703-cah.china.huawei.com) ([172.18.7.190]) by lhrrg02-dlp.huawei.com (MOS 4.3.7-GA FastPath queued) with ESMTP id CLH62853; Fri, 03 Jun 2016 07:38:43 +0000 (GMT) Received: from NKGEML413-HUB.china.huawei.com (10.98.56.74) by lhreml703-cah.china.huawei.com (10.201.5.104) with Microsoft SMTP Server (TLS) id 14.3.235.1; Fri, 3 Jun 2016 08:38:42 +0100 Received: from NKGEML515-MBS.china.huawei.com ([169.254.5.169]) by NKGEML413-HUB.china.huawei.com ([10.98.56.74]) with mapi id 14.03.0235.001; Fri, 3 Jun 2016 15:38:40 +0800 From: Xuxiaohu To: Joe Touch , "otroan@employees.org" Thread-Topic: [nvo3] [Softwires] Is it feasible to perform fragmentation on UDP encapsulated packets. Thread-Index: AQHRvPncHcsWng18N0qPKCUQaW4bNp/W96xA//+qsICAAKCTIA== Date: Fri, 3 Jun 2016 07:38:40 +0000 Message-ID: <1FEE3F8F5CCDE64C9A8E8F4AD27C19EE0D55B37B@NKGEML515-MBS.china.huawei.com> References: <573E2A0E.1060609@isi.edu> <1FEE3F8F5CCDE64C9A8E8F4AD27C19EE0D54EB60@NKGEML515-MBX.china.huawei.com> <573F453C.5060908@isi.edu> <1FEE3F8F5CCDE64C9A8E8F4AD27C19EE0D554B73@NKGEML515-MBS.china.huawei.com> <5743303C.5040109@isi.edu> <1FEE3F8F5CCDE64C9A8E8F4AD27C19EE0D55514C@NKGEML515-MBS.china.huawei.com> <5743DD16.3050506@isi.edu> <1FEE3F8F5CCDE64C9A8E8F4AD27C19EE0D555482@NKGEML515-MBS.china.huawei.com> <57448C14.2060203@isi.edu> <1FEE3F8F5CCDE64C9A8E8F4AD27C19EE0D5557DE@NKGEML515-MBS.china.huawei.com> <9c462520-eb8e-fcd0-0a08-228f80fbc779@isi.edu> <1FEE3F8F5CCDE64C9A8E8F4AD27C19EE0D5596E0@NKGEML515-MBS.china.huawei.com> <8790AF6F-CCD6-43AC-A50E-957B037643F1@employees.org> <57507611.5010801@isi.edu> <1FEE3F8F5CCDE64C9A8E8F4AD27C19EE0D55B2A4@NKGEML515-MBS.china.huawei.com> <575108D3.3010506@isi.edu> In-Reply-To: <575108D3.3010506@isi.edu> Accept-Language: zh-CN, en-US Content-Language: zh-CN X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-originating-ip: [10.111.99.55] Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable MIME-Version: 1.0 X-CFilter-Loop: Reflected X-Mirapoint-Virus-RAPID-Raw: score=unknown(0), refid=str=0001.0A090202.57513404.004D, ss=1, re=0.000, recu=0.000, reip=0.000, cl=1, cld=1, fgs=0, ip=169.254.5.169, so=2013-06-18 04:22:30, dmn=2013-03-21 17:37:32 X-Mirapoint-Loop-Id: b6ae068aa12793195ecad703a67f441c Archived-At: Cc: Softwires WG , "nvo3@ietf.org" , "int-area@ietf.org" , "lisp@ietf.org" , "tsvwg@ietf.org" Subject: Re: [lisp] [nvo3] [Softwires] Is it feasible to perform fragmentation on UDP encapsulated packets. X-BeenThere: lisp@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.17 Precedence: list List-Id: List for the discussion of the Locator/ID Separation Protocol List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 03 Jun 2016 07:38:51 -0000 > -----Original Message----- > From: Joe Touch [mailto:touch@isi.edu] > Sent: Friday, June 03, 2016 12:34 PM > To: Xuxiaohu; otroan@employees.org > Cc: Softwires WG; nvo3@ietf.org; int-area@ietf.org; lisp@ietf.org; > tsvwg@ietf.org > Subject: Re: [nvo3] [Softwires] Is it feasible to perform fragmentation o= n UDP > encapsulated packets. >=20 >=20 >=20 > On 6/2/2016 7:53 PM, Xuxiaohu wrote: > > > >> -----Original Message----- > >> From: Joe Touch [mailto:touch@isi.edu] > >> Sent: Friday, June 03, 2016 2:08 AM > >> To: otroan@employees.org; Xuxiaohu > >> Cc: Softwires WG; nvo3@ietf.org; int-area@ietf.org; lisp@ietf.org; > >> tsvwg@ietf.org > >> Subject: Re: [nvo3] [Softwires] Is it feasible to perform > >> fragmentation on UDP encapsulated packets. > >> > >> > >> > >> On 5/27/2016 3:50 AM, otroan@employees.org wrote: > >>> It is not possible to implement reassembly complying with IETF RFCs. > >> a) ATM does this at ridiculously high fragment rates. Granted IP > >> frags can come out of order, but the fragments are generally much larg= er. > > As pointed in RFC4459, > > > > "At the time of reassembly, all the information (i.e., all the > > fragments) is normally not available; when the first fragment > > arrives to be reassembled, a buffer of the maximum possible size > > may have to be allocated because the total length of the > > reassembled datagram is not known at that time. Furthermore, as > > fragments might get lost, or be reordered or delayed, the > > reassembly engine has to wait with the partial packet for some > > time (e.g., 60 seconds [9]). When this would have to be done at > > the line rate, with, for example 10 Gbit/s speed, the length of > > the buffers that reassembly might require would be prohibitive. " >=20 > Yes, but the alternative of declaring that you don't reassemble has a cos= t in > terms of dropped segments too. The alternative is to configure the MTU of the core large enough to accommo= date the added encapsulation header. This is a feasible and proven approach= in well-managed SP networks. No packet loss and no forwarding performance = degradation. > Taking that drop into account, buffering for a smaller amount of potentia= l > reordering and accounting for reasonable reassembly sizes (for IPv6, the > smallest "max" that's required is 1500) need not be prohibitive. In the IPv6-in-IPv4 Software network case, assume the MTU of the core is no= t large enough than 1280+20, all the IPv6 traffic across the tunnels would = have to be fragmented and then reassembled. Not a small amount. > > Have you heard the wide adoption of 622M (STM-1) beyond ATM interfaces > between ATM switches in the previous ATM networks? If not, the highest > non-ATM interface in the past ATM networks was the FE interface which is = 100M > bps (around the year of 2000), If I remembered it correctly. >=20 > OC12 ATM NICs were commonly available in 1998. That was back when Sorry, there was a spelling mistake ( s/STM-1/STM-4). OC12/STM-4=3D622M. My question is have you heard the wide adoption of 622M = (STM-4) BEYOND ATM interfaces (e.g., STM-16/OC48) at that time? > ethernet was pushing 100M and the only other near-gigabit tech was Myrico= m > (a spin-off of USC/ISI and Caltech). I.e., with the tech available at tha= t time, > 600Mbps SAR was possible. Was that 600Mbps SAR capability proved in real networks? And for what servi= ce? > > Furthermore, have you heard the reordering issue with ATM cells? If no,= that > means once an ATM cell of a given ALL PDU gets lost, all the received ATM= cells > of that AAL PDU would be dropped and therefore the reassembly buffer for = that > AAL datagram would be released. In other words, there is no need to wait = for > the lost or reordered fragment for a certain period of time before releas= ing the > reassembly buffer. > Reordered no, but just because they arrive in order does not mean they ar= e > required to arrive *adjacent*. The same requirement applies in terms of > needing reassembly buffers for a number of interleaved segments. However, the reassembly buffer requirement is limited due to the fact that = only one buffer is needed per VC and the total number of VCs is not large o= n the edge of ATM networks. In contrast, the number of IP flows is uncontro= llable. > > Such behavior is not possible for IP fragmentation and reassembly. Las= t but > not least, there is no need to assign a reassembly buffer per AAL PDU (as > opposed to per IP datagram in the IP fragmentation and reassembly case), > instead, only one reassembly buffer per VC since all cells within a given= VC would > be received in order. Since the SAR is only needed on the edge of the ATM > networks, the number of VCs is very limited. > You could easily decide to allocate a fixed number of reassembly buffers = per IP > flow to conserve resources too. The amount of reordering, together with t= he What about in the DDoS attack case? Do you believe that SPs would allow the= existence of that obvious DDoS attack risk in their networks and afford th= e significant forwarding performance degradation? especially when there has= been a feasible and proven solution to the MTU issue (i.e., configure the = MTU of the core large enough)? Best regards, Xiaohu > number of flows supported would determine your ability to avoid packet dr= ops > -- but recall that drops at high load are not unusual for IP. >=20 > Joe From nobody Fri Jun 3 05:48:26 2016 Return-Path: X-Original-To: lisp@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: lisp@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3325E12D146; Fri, 3 Jun 2016 05:48:20 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.617 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.617 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, MIME_QP_LONG_LINE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW=-0.7, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_H3=-0.01, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_WL=-0.01] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id W_zYmls8QhWz; Fri, 3 Jun 2016 05:48:16 -0700 (PDT) Received: from smtp3-g21.free.fr (smtp3-g21.free.fr [212.27.42.3]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 4343612D127; Fri, 3 Jun 2016 05:48:15 -0700 (PDT) Received: from [192.168.0.29] (unknown [78.193.136.169]) by smtp3-g21.free.fr (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 4646A13F6B0; Fri, 3 Jun 2016 12:50:21 +0200 (CEST) Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=Apple-Mail-A1535E92-481B-4573-B233-780626C5AB2B Mime-Version: 1.0 (1.0) From: =?utf-8?Q?R=C3=A9mi_Despr=C3=A9s?= X-Mailer: iPad Mail (13E238) In-Reply-To: <1FEE3F8F5CCDE64C9A8E8F4AD27C19EE0D55B37B@NKGEML515-MBS.china.huawei.com> Date: Fri, 3 Jun 2016 14:48:04 +0200 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Message-Id: <7C3B0012-D5B9-4857-BE5E-9579265C76DF@laposte.net> References: <573E2A0E.1060609@isi.edu> <1FEE3F8F5CCDE64C9A8E8F4AD27C19EE0D54EB60@NKGEML515-MBX.china.huawei.com> <573F453C.5060908@isi.edu> <1FEE3F8F5CCDE64C9A8E8F4AD27C19EE0D554B73@NKGEML515-MBS.china.huawei.com> <5743303C.5040109@isi.edu> <1FEE3F8F5CCDE64C9A8E8F4AD27C19EE0D55514C@NKGEML515-MBS.china.huawei.com> <5743DD16.3050506@isi.edu> <1FEE3F8F5CCDE64C9A8E8F4AD27C19EE0D555482@NKGEML515-MBS.china.huawei.com> <57448C14.2060203@isi.edu> <1FEE3F8F5CCDE64C9A8E8F4AD27C19EE0D5557DE@NKGEML515-MBS.china.huawei.com> <9c462520-eb8e-fcd0-0a08-228f80fbc779@isi.edu> <1FEE3F8F5CCDE64C9A8E8F4AD27C19EE0D5596E0@NKGEML515-MBS.china.huawei.com> <8790AF6F-CCD6-43AC-A50E-957B037643F1@employees.org> <57507611.5010801@isi.edu> <1FEE3F8F5CCDE64C9A8E8F4AD27C19EE0D55B2A4@NKGEML515-MBS.china.huawei.com> <575108D3.3010506@isi.edu> <1FEE3F8F5CCDE64C9A8E8F4AD27C19EE0D55B37B@NKGEML515-MBS.china.huawei.com> To: Softwires WG Archived-At: Cc: "nvo3@ietf.org" , "int-area@ietf.org" , "lisp@ietf.org" , "tsvwg@ietf.org" Subject: Re: [lisp] [Softwires] [nvo3] Is it feasible to perform fragmentation on UDP encapsulated packets. X-BeenThere: lisp@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.17 Precedence: list List-Id: List for the discussion of the Locator/ID Separation Protocol List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 03 Jun 2016 12:48:20 -0000 --Apple-Mail-A1535E92-481B-4573-B233-780626C5AB2B Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable > 2016-06-03 09:38, Xuxiaohu : >=20 >> -----Original Message----- >> From: Joe Touch [mailto:touch@isi.edu] >> Sent: Friday, June 03, 2016 12:34 PM ... >> Yes, but the alternative of declaring that you don't reassemble has a cos= t in >> terms of dropped segments too. >=20 > The alternative is to configure the MTU of the core large enough to accomm= odate the added encapsulation header. This is a feasible and proven approach= in well-managed SP networks. No packet loss and no forwarding performance d= egradation. Just for information on this subject, an earlier analysis is a available in h= ttps://tools.ietf.org/html/rfc6751#section-6.4. (No plan to participate again in IETF technical debates.) Regards to all, RD --Apple-Mail-A1535E92-481B-4573-B233-780626C5AB2B Content-Type: text/html; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

2016-06-03 09:38, Xuxia= ohu <xuxiaohu@huawei.com> :=

-----Original Message-----
From: Joe Touch [mailto:touch@= isi.edu]
Sent: Fri= day, June 03, 2016 12:34 PM
...
<= /span>
Yes, but the= alternative of declaring that you don't reassemble has a cost in
=
terms of dropped segments too.<= /span>

The alternative is to configur= e the MTU of the core large enough to accommodate the added encapsulation he= ader. This is a feasible and proven approach in well-managed SP networks. No= packet loss and no forwarding performance degradation.

Just for information on this subject, an earlier analysis= is a available in https://tools.ietf.org/html/rfc6751#section-6.4.
= (No plan to participate again in IETF technical debates.)

Regards to all,
RD
=
= --Apple-Mail-A1535E92-481B-4573-B233-780626C5AB2B-- From nobody Fri Jun 3 09:27:17 2016 Return-Path: X-Original-To: lisp@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: lisp@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0043112D702; Fri, 3 Jun 2016 09:27:16 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -5.647 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-5.647 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-2.3, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_H3=-0.01, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_WL=-0.01, RP_MATCHES_RCVD=-1.426, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id Oy5WGvqFclwk; Fri, 3 Jun 2016 09:27:13 -0700 (PDT) Received: from blv-mbsout-01.boeing.com (blv-mbsout-01.boeing.com [130.76.32.231]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 64A6F12D5AC; Fri, 3 Jun 2016 09:27:13 -0700 (PDT) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by blv-mbsout-01.boeing.com (8.14.4/8.14.4/DOWNSTREAM_MBSOUT) with SMTP id u53GRODW011554; Fri, 3 Jun 2016 09:27:25 -0700 Received: from XCH15-05-06.nw.nos.boeing.com (xch15-05-06.nw.nos.boeing.com [137.137.100.84]) by blv-mbsout-01.boeing.com (8.14.4/8.14.4/UPSTREAM_MBSOUT) with ESMTP id u53GRJlP011406 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Fri, 3 Jun 2016 09:27:19 -0700 Received: from XCH15-05-05.nw.nos.boeing.com (2002:8989:6450::8989:6450) by XCH15-05-06.nw.nos.boeing.com (2002:8989:6454::8989:6454) with Microsoft SMTP Server (TLS) id 15.0.1178.4; Fri, 3 Jun 2016 09:27:06 -0700 Received: from XCH15-05-05.nw.nos.boeing.com ([137.137.100.80]) by XCH15-05-05.nw.nos.boeing.com ([137.137.100.80]) with mapi id 15.00.1178.000; Fri, 3 Jun 2016 09:27:06 -0700 From: "Templin, Fred L" To: Xuxiaohu , Joe Touch , "otroan@employees.org" Thread-Topic: [nvo3] [Softwires] Is it feasible to perform fragmentation on UDP encapsulated packets. Thread-Index: AQHRvWr/d3+tgL34oUSVk+7sP6lEoZ/X6QAw Date: Fri, 3 Jun 2016 16:27:06 +0000 Message-ID: <528400d44d934332bf7382e062f13d73@XCH15-05-05.nw.nos.boeing.com> References: <573E2A0E.1060609@isi.edu> <1FEE3F8F5CCDE64C9A8E8F4AD27C19EE0D54EB60@NKGEML515-MBX.china.huawei.com> <573F453C.5060908@isi.edu> <1FEE3F8F5CCDE64C9A8E8F4AD27C19EE0D554B73@NKGEML515-MBS.china.huawei.com> <5743303C.5040109@isi.edu> <1FEE3F8F5CCDE64C9A8E8F4AD27C19EE0D55514C@NKGEML515-MBS.china.huawei.com> <5743DD16.3050506@isi.edu> <1FEE3F8F5CCDE64C9A8E8F4AD27C19EE0D555482@NKGEML515-MBS.china.huawei.com> <57448C14.2060203@isi.edu> <1FEE3F8F5CCDE64C9A8E8F4AD27C19EE0D5557DE@NKGEML515-MBS.china.huawei.com> <9c462520-eb8e-fcd0-0a08-228f80fbc779@isi.edu> <1FEE3F8F5CCDE64C9A8E8F4AD27C19EE0D5596E0@NKGEML515-MBS.china.huawei.com> <8790AF6F-CCD6-43AC-A50E-957B037643F1@employees.org> <57507611.5010801@isi.edu> <1FEE3F8F5CCDE64C9A8E8F4AD27C19EE0D55B2A4@NKGEML515-MBS.china.huawei.com> <575108D3.3010506@isi.edu> <1FEE3F8F5CCDE64C9A8E8F4AD27C19EE0D55B37B@NKGEML515-MBS.china.huawei.com> In-Reply-To: <1FEE3F8F5CCDE64C9A8E8F4AD27C19EE0D55B37B@NKGEML515-MBS.china.huawei.com> Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-ms-exchange-transport-fromentityheader: Hosted x-originating-ip: [137.137.12.6] Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable MIME-Version: 1.0 X-TM-AS-MML: disable Archived-At: Cc: Softwires WG , "nvo3@ietf.org" , "int-area@ietf.org" , "lisp@ietf.org" , "tsvwg@ietf.org" Subject: Re: [lisp] [nvo3] [Softwires] Is it feasible to perform fragmentation on UDP encapsulated packets. X-BeenThere: lisp@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.17 Precedence: list List-Id: List for the discussion of the Locator/ID Separation Protocol List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 03 Jun 2016 16:27:16 -0000 > The alternative is to configure the MTU of the core large enough to accom= modate the added encapsulation header. But what if you can't do that? All it takes is one link with a small and/or misconfigured MTU... Fred fred.l.templin@boeing.com > -----Original Message----- > From: Int-area [mailto:int-area-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of Xuxiaohu > Sent: Friday, June 03, 2016 12:39 AM > To: Joe Touch ; otroan@employees.org > Cc: Softwires WG ; nvo3@ietf.org; int-area@ietf.org; = lisp@ietf.org; tsvwg@ietf.org > Subject: Re: [Int-area] [nvo3] [Softwires] Is it feasible to perform frag= mentation on UDP encapsulated packets. >=20 >=20 >=20 > > -----Original Message----- > > From: Joe Touch [mailto:touch@isi.edu] > > Sent: Friday, June 03, 2016 12:34 PM > > To: Xuxiaohu; otroan@employees.org > > Cc: Softwires WG; nvo3@ietf.org; int-area@ietf.org; lisp@ietf.org; > > tsvwg@ietf.org > > Subject: Re: [nvo3] [Softwires] Is it feasible to perform fragmentation= on UDP > > encapsulated packets. > > > > > > > > On 6/2/2016 7:53 PM, Xuxiaohu wrote: > > > > > >> -----Original Message----- > > >> From: Joe Touch [mailto:touch@isi.edu] > > >> Sent: Friday, June 03, 2016 2:08 AM > > >> To: otroan@employees.org; Xuxiaohu > > >> Cc: Softwires WG; nvo3@ietf.org; int-area@ietf.org; lisp@ietf.org; > > >> tsvwg@ietf.org > > >> Subject: Re: [nvo3] [Softwires] Is it feasible to perform > > >> fragmentation on UDP encapsulated packets. > > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> On 5/27/2016 3:50 AM, otroan@employees.org wrote: > > >>> It is not possible to implement reassembly complying with IETF RFCs= . > > >> a) ATM does this at ridiculously high fragment rates. Granted IP > > >> frags can come out of order, but the fragments are generally much la= rger. > > > As pointed in RFC4459, > > > > > > "At the time of reassembly, all the information (i.e., all the > > > fragments) is normally not available; when the first fragment > > > arrives to be reassembled, a buffer of the maximum possible siz= e > > > may have to be allocated because the total length of the > > > reassembled datagram is not known at that time. Furthermore, as > > > fragments might get lost, or be reordered or delayed, the > > > reassembly engine has to wait with the partial packet for some > > > time (e.g., 60 seconds [9]). When this would have to be done a= t > > > the line rate, with, for example 10 Gbit/s speed, the length of > > > the buffers that reassembly might require would be prohibitive.= " > > > > Yes, but the alternative of declaring that you don't reassemble has a c= ost in > > terms of dropped segments too. >=20 > The alternative is to configure the MTU of the core large enough to accom= modate the added encapsulation header. This is a feasible > and proven approach in well-managed SP networks. No packet loss and no fo= rwarding performance degradation. >=20 > > Taking that drop into account, buffering for a smaller amount of potent= ial > > reordering and accounting for reasonable reassembly sizes (for IPv6, th= e > > smallest "max" that's required is 1500) need not be prohibitive. >=20 > In the IPv6-in-IPv4 Software network case, assume the MTU of the core is = not large enough than 1280+20, all the IPv6 traffic across > the tunnels would have to be fragmented and then reassembled. Not a small= amount. >=20 > > > Have you heard the wide adoption of 622M (STM-1) beyond ATM interface= s > > between ATM switches in the previous ATM networks? If not, the highest > > non-ATM interface in the past ATM networks was the FE interface which i= s 100M > > bps (around the year of 2000), If I remembered it correctly. > > > > OC12 ATM NICs were commonly available in 1998. That was back when >=20 > Sorry, there was a spelling mistake ( s/STM-1/STM-4). >=20 > OC12/STM-4=3D622M. My question is have you heard the wide adoption of 622= M (STM-4) BEYOND ATM interfaces (e.g., STM-16/OC48) > at that time? >=20 > > ethernet was pushing 100M and the only other near-gigabit tech was Myri= com > > (a spin-off of USC/ISI and Caltech). I.e., with the tech available at t= hat time, > > 600Mbps SAR was possible. >=20 > Was that 600Mbps SAR capability proved in real networks? And for what ser= vice? >=20 > > > Furthermore, have you heard the reordering issue with ATM cells? If n= o, that > > means once an ATM cell of a given ALL PDU gets lost, all the received A= TM cells > > of that AAL PDU would be dropped and therefore the reassembly buffer fo= r that > > AAL datagram would be released. In other words, there is no need to wai= t for > > the lost or reordered fragment for a certain period of time before rele= asing the > > reassembly buffer. > > Reordered no, but just because they arrive in order does not mean they = are > > required to arrive *adjacent*. The same requirement applies in terms of > > needing reassembly buffers for a number of interleaved segments. >=20 > However, the reassembly buffer requirement is limited due to the fact tha= t only one buffer is needed per VC and the total number of > VCs is not large on the edge of ATM networks. In contrast, the number of = IP flows is uncontrollable. >=20 > > > Such behavior is not possible for IP fragmentation and reassembly. L= ast but > > not least, there is no need to assign a reassembly buffer per AAL PDU (= as > > opposed to per IP datagram in the IP fragmentation and reassembly case)= , > > instead, only one reassembly buffer per VC since all cells within a giv= en VC would > > be received in order. Since the SAR is only needed on the edge of the A= TM > > networks, the number of VCs is very limited. > > You could easily decide to allocate a fixed number of reassembly buffer= s per IP > > flow to conserve resources too. The amount of reordering, together with= the >=20 > What about in the DDoS attack case? Do you believe that SPs would allow t= he existence of that obvious DDoS attack risk in their > networks and afford the significant forwarding performance degradation? e= specially when there has been a feasible and proven > solution to the MTU issue (i.e., configure the MTU of the core large enou= gh)? >=20 > Best regards, > Xiaohu >=20 > > number of flows supported would determine your ability to avoid packet = drops > > -- but recall that drops at high load are not unusual for IP. > > > > Joe >=20 > _______________________________________________ > Int-area mailing list > Int-area@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/int-area From nobody Fri Jun 3 09:45:10 2016 Return-Path: X-Original-To: lisp@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: lisp@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6ACB712D72A for ; Fri, 3 Jun 2016 09:44:55 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.9 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.9 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001] autolearn=unavailable autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=herbertland-com.20150623.gappssmtp.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id beXoiD0K28Yg for ; Fri, 3 Jun 2016 09:44:53 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail-it0-x22e.google.com (mail-it0-x22e.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:4001:c0b::22e]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id C4B9D12D725 for ; Fri, 3 Jun 2016 09:44:41 -0700 (PDT) Received: by mail-it0-x22e.google.com with SMTP id z189so2458436itg.0 for ; Fri, 03 Jun 2016 09:44:41 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=herbertland-com.20150623.gappssmtp.com; s=20150623; h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:date:message-id:subject:from:to :cc:content-transfer-encoding; bh=diFCe03zfS80dDcGfVJMpj9HUrKCetL0y9rfjiTu5PE=; b=GsWtyA+LbeeB5aqaNW1fel3aGmlKNMT/rj0Mi6+/W2cQ0QdDqGqvVLk0373lS/PG3b ZL/KK4J5UFvbbtQcesm0zbudw/R3WKA7SLNvX47V4tVhks0DzwkvP8Ksp/yNLDKuOBik lwPcZkpXFxrqGfYOpR1xPtEs4+Q67tdbI9AxnPmzSA2woS84atbKeTmhplU9BE04TpP8 NE8PlgN8kglUIJcW6kjpxVFsI5CuepdGlhHHODXg+3ihKBNfHDdIkS4aTDQZrEbpub0l mfm1Q6RRY2WJdlaBTAIX68CqTq40Oj0p7HFVdyKuIrUZ4+VVLWqw8wPJjQiOfImq1FO3 6twg== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20130820; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:in-reply-to:references:date :message-id:subject:from:to:cc:content-transfer-encoding; bh=diFCe03zfS80dDcGfVJMpj9HUrKCetL0y9rfjiTu5PE=; b=eY0hDZl7sERVq8K/CcXFd49RV9flS5cg0C5MBKiVWThOzPjst3un6kX9lkfSe8rupE 8zg9d4tg72FgEU250Lndn5L7Ms7woymNpbHkzx81sstflkangmbUGmYw2B4mpgspDfAK QsiQ8jF5pUOtYEd6zeX9Mbx2r0rbwyV31rdyVx3+ZRumLXPjApADaC6Awo9pnDVbuyI1 qFJ4JkpdpGXE/LXLF34LBr0sqX1+cSvBHblpa7IfxIvaJwQjhfSx1VDvJ7FKqCWD9QPI QzO7CxkgBo4+wIT0kchiYs1HiBR4KWiftt72zoiyMmggbkKopcgfzA/v+wj8XJgHIT8Z 2V4A== X-Gm-Message-State: ALyK8tJpBqIQwp+WRDbz3APgXdL1juWN+xBgervxPAkdvvy5avHRH6sIHsLZ1PTGhBv2ZOz3qLM3ZzmmRMt6gw== MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Received: by 10.36.66.68 with SMTP id i65mr676252itb.91.1464972281013; Fri, 03 Jun 2016 09:44:41 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.107.11.20 with HTTP; Fri, 3 Jun 2016 09:44:40 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: <1FEE3F8F5CCDE64C9A8E8F4AD27C19EE0D55B37B@NKGEML515-MBS.china.huawei.com> References: <573E2A0E.1060609@isi.edu> <1FEE3F8F5CCDE64C9A8E8F4AD27C19EE0D54EB60@NKGEML515-MBX.china.huawei.com> <573F453C.5060908@isi.edu> <1FEE3F8F5CCDE64C9A8E8F4AD27C19EE0D554B73@NKGEML515-MBS.china.huawei.com> <5743303C.5040109@isi.edu> <1FEE3F8F5CCDE64C9A8E8F4AD27C19EE0D55514C@NKGEML515-MBS.china.huawei.com> <5743DD16.3050506@isi.edu> <1FEE3F8F5CCDE64C9A8E8F4AD27C19EE0D555482@NKGEML515-MBS.china.huawei.com> <57448C14.2060203@isi.edu> <1FEE3F8F5CCDE64C9A8E8F4AD27C19EE0D5557DE@NKGEML515-MBS.china.huawei.com> <9c462520-eb8e-fcd0-0a08-228f80fbc779@isi.edu> <1FEE3F8F5CCDE64C9A8E8F4AD27C19EE0D5596E0@NKGEML515-MBS.china.huawei.com> <8790AF6F-CCD6-43AC-A50E-957B037643F1@employees.org> <57507611.5010801@isi.edu> <1FEE3F8F5CCDE64C9A8E8F4AD27C19EE0D55B2A4@NKGEML515-MBS.china.huawei.com> <575108D3.3010506@isi.edu> <1FEE3F8F5CCDE64C9A8E8F4AD27C19EE0D55B37B@NKGEML515-MBS.china.huawei.com> Date: Fri, 3 Jun 2016 09:44:40 -0700 Message-ID: From: Tom Herbert To: Xuxiaohu Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Archived-At: Cc: "int-area@ietf.org" , "lisp@ietf.org" , Joe Touch , "nvo3@ietf.org" , "otroan@employees.org" , Softwires WG , "tsvwg@ietf.org" Subject: Re: [lisp] [Int-area] [nvo3] [Softwires] Is it feasible to perform fragmentation on UDP encapsulated packets. X-BeenThere: lisp@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.17 Precedence: list List-Id: List for the discussion of the Locator/ID Separation Protocol List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 03 Jun 2016 16:44:56 -0000 On Fri, Jun 3, 2016 at 12:38 AM, Xuxiaohu wrote: > > >> -----Original Message----- >> From: Joe Touch [mailto:touch@isi.edu] >> Sent: Friday, June 03, 2016 12:34 PM >> To: Xuxiaohu; otroan@employees.org >> Cc: Softwires WG; nvo3@ietf.org; int-area@ietf.org; lisp@ietf.org; >> tsvwg@ietf.org >> Subject: Re: [nvo3] [Softwires] Is it feasible to perform fragmentation = on UDP >> encapsulated packets. >> >> >> >> On 6/2/2016 7:53 PM, Xuxiaohu wrote: >> > >> >> -----Original Message----- >> >> From: Joe Touch [mailto:touch@isi.edu] >> >> Sent: Friday, June 03, 2016 2:08 AM >> >> To: otroan@employees.org; Xuxiaohu >> >> Cc: Softwires WG; nvo3@ietf.org; int-area@ietf.org; lisp@ietf.org; >> >> tsvwg@ietf.org >> >> Subject: Re: [nvo3] [Softwires] Is it feasible to perform >> >> fragmentation on UDP encapsulated packets. >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> On 5/27/2016 3:50 AM, otroan@employees.org wrote: >> >>> It is not possible to implement reassembly complying with IETF RFCs. >> >> a) ATM does this at ridiculously high fragment rates. Granted IP >> >> frags can come out of order, but the fragments are generally much lar= ger. >> > As pointed in RFC4459, >> > >> > "At the time of reassembly, all the information (i.e., all the >> > fragments) is normally not available; when the first fragment >> > arrives to be reassembled, a buffer of the maximum possible size >> > may have to be allocated because the total length of the >> > reassembled datagram is not known at that time. Furthermore, as >> > fragments might get lost, or be reordered or delayed, the >> > reassembly engine has to wait with the partial packet for some >> > time (e.g., 60 seconds [9]). When this would have to be done at >> > the line rate, with, for example 10 Gbit/s speed, the length of >> > the buffers that reassembly might require would be prohibitive. = " >> >> Yes, but the alternative of declaring that you don't reassemble has a co= st in >> terms of dropped segments too. > > The alternative is to configure the MTU of the core large enough to accom= modate the added encapsulation header. This is a feasible and proven approa= ch in well-managed SP networks. No packet loss and no forwarding performanc= e degradation. > >> Taking that drop into account, buffering for a smaller amount of potenti= al >> reordering and accounting for reasonable reassembly sizes (for IPv6, the >> smallest "max" that's required is 1500) need not be prohibitive. > > In the IPv6-in-IPv4 Software network case, assume the MTU of the core is = not large enough than 1280+20, all the IPv6 traffic across the tunnels woul= d have to be fragmented and then reassembled. Not a small amount. > >> > Have you heard the wide adoption of 622M (STM-1) beyond ATM interfaces >> between ATM switches in the previous ATM networks? If not, the highest >> non-ATM interface in the past ATM networks was the FE interface which is= 100M >> bps (around the year of 2000), If I remembered it correctly. >> >> OC12 ATM NICs were commonly available in 1998. That was back when > > Sorry, there was a spelling mistake ( s/STM-1/STM-4). > > OC12/STM-4=3D622M. My question is have you heard the wide adoption of 622= M (STM-4) BEYOND ATM interfaces (e.g., STM-16/OC48) at that time? > >> ethernet was pushing 100M and the only other near-gigabit tech was Myric= om >> (a spin-off of USC/ISI and Caltech). I.e., with the tech available at th= at time, >> 600Mbps SAR was possible. > > Was that 600Mbps SAR capability proved in real networks? And for what ser= vice? > >> > Furthermore, have you heard the reordering issue with ATM cells? If no= , that >> means once an ATM cell of a given ALL PDU gets lost, all the received AT= M cells >> of that AAL PDU would be dropped and therefore the reassembly buffer for= that >> AAL datagram would be released. In other words, there is no need to wait= for >> the lost or reordered fragment for a certain period of time before relea= sing the >> reassembly buffer. >> Reordered no, but just because they arrive in order does not mean they a= re >> required to arrive *adjacent*. The same requirement applies in terms of >> needing reassembly buffers for a number of interleaved segments. > > However, the reassembly buffer requirement is limited due to the fact tha= t only one buffer is needed per VC and the total number of VCs is not large= on the edge of ATM networks. In contrast, the number of IP flows is uncont= rollable. > >> > Such behavior is not possible for IP fragmentation and reassembly. La= st but >> not least, there is no need to assign a reassembly buffer per AAL PDU (a= s >> opposed to per IP datagram in the IP fragmentation and reassembly case), >> instead, only one reassembly buffer per VC since all cells within a give= n VC would >> be received in order. Since the SAR is only needed on the edge of the AT= M >> networks, the number of VCs is very limited. >> You could easily decide to allocate a fixed number of reassembly buffers= per IP >> flow to conserve resources too. The amount of reordering, together with = the > > What about in the DDoS attack case? Do you believe that SPs would allow t= he existence of that obvious DDoS attack risk in their networks and afford = the significant forwarding performance degradation? especially when there h= as been a feasible and proven solution to the MTU issue (i.e., configure th= e MTU of the core large enough)? > That is precisely solution #3 in RFC4459: "Ensure that in the specific environment, the encapsulated packets will fit in all the paths in the network, e.g., by using MTU bigger than 1500 in the backbone used for encapsulation." If you're able to implement this in you network that's great, but it is not feasible in all situations and hence can't be the standard. We may not control all the underlay networks (definitely not over the Internet) and hence not be able to set all the MTUs large enough. Also an MTU greater than 1500 require jumbo frames, not all networks enabled those. One other point, when a device sources or sinks IP packets like in tunneling it is taking on the role of a host and so we expect host requirements apply. For instance, routers may perform fragmentation in IPv4, but they do not perform fragmentation for IPv6 or reassembly (those are hosts functionalities). There has been at least one attempt to carve out exceptions in applying host requirements to devices that perform tunneling, that is an allowance to send a zero UDP checksum in in IPv6. Documenting this took two RFCs and we still needed a whole lot of description in at least GRE/UDP on requirements that to use the non-zero checksum. I don't think standardizing exceptions in fragmentation for tunnels would be any easier. Tom > Best regards, > Xiaohu > >> number of flows supported would determine your ability to avoid packet d= rops >> -- but recall that drops at high load are not unusual for IP. >> >> Joe > > _______________________________________________ > Int-area mailing list > Int-area@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/int-area From nobody Mon Jun 6 13:38:20 2016 Return-Path: X-Original-To: lisp@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: lisp@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2D1C812D90F; Mon, 6 Jun 2016 13:38:17 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -4.221 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-4.221 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-2.3, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_H4=-0.01, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_WL=-0.01, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 8cCpSW4nSNCq; Mon, 6 Jun 2016 13:38:14 -0700 (PDT) Received: from phx-mbsout-01.mbs.boeing.net (phx-mbsout-01.mbs.boeing.net [130.76.184.178]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id DEF9C12D919; Mon, 6 Jun 2016 13:38:03 -0700 (PDT) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by phx-mbsout-01.mbs.boeing.net (8.14.4/8.14.4/DOWNSTREAM_MBSOUT) with SMTP id u56Kc32B042972; Mon, 6 Jun 2016 13:38:03 -0700 Received: from XCH15-05-07.nw.nos.boeing.com (xch15-05-07.nw.nos.boeing.com [137.136.239.209]) by phx-mbsout-01.mbs.boeing.net (8.14.4/8.14.4/UPSTREAM_MBSOUT) with ESMTP id u56KbxHG042832 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Mon, 6 Jun 2016 13:38:00 -0700 Received: from XCH15-05-11.nw.nos.boeing.com (2002:8988:efd5::8988:efd5) by XCH15-05-07.nw.nos.boeing.com (2002:8988:efd1::8988:efd1) with Microsoft SMTP Server (TLS) id 15.0.1178.4; Mon, 6 Jun 2016 13:37:58 -0700 Received: from XCH15-05-11.nw.nos.boeing.com ([137.136.239.213]) by XCH15-05-11.nw.nos.boeing.com ([137.136.239.213]) with mapi id 15.00.1178.000; Mon, 6 Jun 2016 13:37:59 -0700 From: "Templin, Fred L" To: Tom Herbert , Xuxiaohu Thread-Topic: [tsvwg] [Int-area] [nvo3] [Softwires] Is it feasible to perform fragmentation on UDP encapsulated packets. Thread-Index: AQHRvbdPveimCbx8+kiS+Bdydthih5/c6X4w Date: Mon, 6 Jun 2016 20:37:58 +0000 Message-ID: <3d29bcbfc1f04033aee4285e4dae31f4@XCH15-05-11.nw.nos.boeing.com> References: <573E2A0E.1060609@isi.edu> <1FEE3F8F5CCDE64C9A8E8F4AD27C19EE0D54EB60@NKGEML515-MBX.china.huawei.com> <573F453C.5060908@isi.edu> <1FEE3F8F5CCDE64C9A8E8F4AD27C19EE0D554B73@NKGEML515-MBS.china.huawei.com> <5743303C.5040109@isi.edu> <1FEE3F8F5CCDE64C9A8E8F4AD27C19EE0D55514C@NKGEML515-MBS.china.huawei.com> <5743DD16.3050506@isi.edu> <1FEE3F8F5CCDE64C9A8E8F4AD27C19EE0D555482@NKGEML515-MBS.china.huawei.com> <57448C14.2060203@isi.edu> <1FEE3F8F5CCDE64C9A8E8F4AD27C19EE0D5557DE@NKGEML515-MBS.china.huawei.com> <9c462520-eb8e-fcd0-0a08-228f80fbc779@isi.edu> <1FEE3F8F5CCDE64C9A8E8F4AD27C19EE0D5596E0@NKGEML515-MBS.china.huawei.com> <8790AF6F-CCD6-43AC-A50E-957B037643F1@employees.org> <57507611.5010801@isi.edu> <1FEE3F8F5CCDE64C9A8E8F4AD27C19EE0D55B2A4@NKGEML515-MBS.china.huawei.com> <575108D3.3010506@isi.edu> <1FEE3F8F5CCDE64C9A8E8F4AD27C19EE0D55B37B@NKGEML515-MBS.china.huawei.com> In-Reply-To: Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-ms-exchange-transport-fromentityheader: Hosted x-originating-ip: [137.137.12.6] Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-TM-AS-MML: disable Archived-At: Cc: "int-area@ietf.org" , "lisp@ietf.org" , Joe Touch , "nvo3@ietf.org" , "otroan@employees.org" , Softwires WG , "tsvwg@ietf.org" Subject: Re: [lisp] [tsvwg] [Int-area] [nvo3] [Softwires] Is it feasible to perform fragmentation on UDP encapsulated packets. 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b3QgdW51c3VhbCBmb3IgSVAuDQo+ID4+DQo+ID4+IEpvZQ0KPiA+DQo+ID4gX19fX19fX19fX19f X19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX18NCj4gPiBJbnQtYXJlYSBtYWlsaW5n IGxpc3QNCj4gPiBJbnQtYXJlYUBpZXRmLm9yZw0KPiA+IGh0dHBzOi8vd3d3LmlldGYub3JnL21h aWxtYW4vbGlzdGluZm8vaW50LWFyZWENCj4gDQoNCg== From nobody Tue Jun 7 07:39:12 2016 Return-Path: X-Original-To: lisp@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: lisp@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 013BE12D6A1; Tue, 7 Jun 2016 07:39:12 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.201 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.201 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, FSL_HELO_BARE_IP_2=1.499, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW=-0.7, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=no autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=gmail.com Received: from 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[74.109.45.139]) by smtp.gmail.com with ESMTPSA id z2sm14570330ywd.43.2016.06.07.07.39.08 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=OTHER); Tue, 07 Jun 2016 07:39:09 -0700 (PDT) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 9.3 \(3124\)) From: Dino Farinacci In-Reply-To: <05C81A773E48DD49B181B04BA21A342A40F3D140E6@HE113484.emea1.cds.t-internal.com> Date: Tue, 7 Jun 2016 07:39:24 -0700 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Message-Id: <09DD4BEC-5080-4657-9A5A-F30B97FE187D@gmail.com> References: <05C81A773E48DD49B181B04BA21A342A40F3D140E6@HE113484.emea1.cds.t-internal.com> To: Dirk.von-Hugo@telekom.de X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.3124) Archived-At: Cc: Tom Herbert , sarikaya@ieee.org, LISP mailing list list , 5gangip@ietf.org Subject: Re: [lisp] offlist RE: 5G discussion at IETF96 side meeting X-BeenThere: lisp@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.17 Precedence: list List-Id: List for the discussion of the Locator/ID Separation Protocol List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 07 Jun 2016 14:39:12 -0000 I am copying the LISP WG mailing list. > On Jun 7, 2016, at 2:53 AM, = wrote: >=20 > Dear Tom and Dino, > Thanks again for your commitment and offer to stimulate the = discussion. Please note that we only have a one-hour session so each = presentation should have around 10 min. - i.e. please try to focus on = main aspects. I can do a 10-minute preso and highlight the how LISP can work in a 5G = enviornment. > @Dino: Please excuse using the expression ' clarify on LISP in general = ' - such a time slot of course is not enough for full clarification of = all issues with mobility and current discussion status in LISP WG (for = this you might point to the LISP WG session itself - or we could try to = arrange another=20 So I can put a slide-set together that does a complete description and = use an abridged version for the 5gangip presentation. Will that work? > evening/night session for to have a chance discuss all those details).=20= > What we wanted to say is that an overview on 5G-related LISP = advantages and/or explanation of current myths and common = misunderstandings would be great =E2=80=A6=20 Sure. > Thus this would match with another talk on a specific LISP-based = solution approach solving a detailed 5G problem planned in that session. We could have 5gangip interested folks attend the LISP WG for the longer = version. > Can we agree on such a procedure? I think so. Thanks, Dino >=20 > Thanks for understanding! >=20 >=20 > Best Regards > Behcet and Dirk=20 >=20 > -----Original Message----- > From: Dino Farinacci [mailto:farinacci@gmail.com]=20 > Sent: Freitag, 3. Juni 2016 19:48 > To: Tom Herbert > Cc: von Hugo, Dirk; 5gangip@ietf.org; sarikaya@ieee.org; = frank.fitzek@tu-dresden.de; j.c.zuniga@ieee.org > Subject: Re: 5G discussion at IETF96 side meeting >=20 >> We already have some presenters for aspects of IP and 5G technologies = and slicing issues (Frank and Juan Carlos). >>> Besides that Dino promised to clarify on LISP in general and Tom = hopefully on ILA alternative? >>=20 >> Yes, we would like to present an ILA solution. >=20 > And I=E2=80=99ll take a half hour for the LISP mobility solution. If = you want a LISP WG update on the latest and greatest, give me an hour. = Your call. >=20 > Dino >=20 >=20 From nobody Tue Jun 7 23:47:29 2016 Return-Path: X-Original-To: lisp@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: lisp@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id A731912D7F4; Tue, 7 Jun 2016 23:47:27 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -15.947 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-15.947 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_HI=-5, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_H3=-0.01, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_WL=-0.01, RP_MATCHES_RCVD=-1.426, SPF_PASS=-0.001, USER_IN_DEF_DKIM_WL=-7.5] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (1024-bit key) header.d=cisco.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id mZFdO3pYaI0N; Tue, 7 Jun 2016 23:47:26 -0700 (PDT) Received: from alln-iport-1.cisco.com (alln-iport-1.cisco.com [173.37.142.88]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher DHE-RSA-SEED-SHA (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 6D79A12D18E; Tue, 7 Jun 2016 23:47:26 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/simple; d=cisco.com; i=@cisco.com; l=2375; q=dns/txt; s=iport; t=1465368446; x=1466578046; h=from:to:cc:subject:date:message-id:references: in-reply-to:content-transfer-encoding:mime-version; bh=ZbQRF8zJYcl0eo2adNx2o+AAk+eEqRmhOnUREZZYPRA=; b=g7cTTYq3Ky+pmyIOsmzKeFdPiSNwut7wgK3t7f8TxcdcLDfSkhsvrFzM IJSyzFxl/cEI5YINHcPfaZ8jnschwsyyckr+bFaGCNMAoVa9F4BDhJPXw AA812RKDoxqoit2WSdk9LdZLWcvt3QLKBhod13Z+rsqlE0304exp+Zzxx I=; X-IronPort-Anti-Spam-Filtered: true X-IronPort-Anti-Spam-Result: =?us-ascii?q?A0D1AQDpvldX/4YNJK1dgz6BUwavB4lwg?= =?us-ascii?q?g+BeYYTAoE+OBQBAQEBAQEBZSeERQEBAQMBOj8FBwQCAQgRBAEBHwkHIREUCQg?= =?us-ascii?q?CBA4FCIgNAw8IuSUNhAEBAQEBAQEBAQEBAQEBAQEBAQEBAQEchieETYJDgWeFc?= =?us-ascii?q?AWYGzQBjCuBc48mh3WHawEeNoIHHIFLbokQfwEBAQ?= X-IronPort-AV: E=Sophos;i="5.26,437,1459814400"; d="scan'208";a="283106783" Received: from alln-core-12.cisco.com ([173.36.13.134]) by alln-iport-1.cisco.com with ESMTP/TLS/DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA; 08 Jun 2016 06:47:25 +0000 Received: from XCH-ALN-007.cisco.com (xch-aln-007.cisco.com [173.36.7.17]) by alln-core-12.cisco.com (8.14.5/8.14.5) with ESMTP id u586lPrX022639 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Wed, 8 Jun 2016 06:47:25 GMT Received: from xch-aln-008.cisco.com (173.36.7.18) by XCH-ALN-007.cisco.com (173.36.7.17) with Microsoft SMTP Server (TLS) id 15.0.1104.5; Wed, 8 Jun 2016 01:47:24 -0500 Received: from xch-aln-008.cisco.com ([173.36.7.18]) by XCH-ALN-008.cisco.com ([173.36.7.18]) with mapi id 15.00.1104.009; Wed, 8 Jun 2016 01:47:24 -0500 From: "Jesus Arango (jearango)" To: Dino Farinacci Thread-Topic: [lisp] [pim] WGLC draft-ietf-pim-join-attributes-for-lisp-03 Thread-Index: AQHRvS/rP5y/rkLukEibTEvdyF5U2p/W6s5wgABzBgCAB8nhcA== Date: Wed, 8 Jun 2016 06:47:24 +0000 Message-ID: <0f78a5f449594ad5ba5e2c7c8deee2d6@XCH-ALN-008.cisco.com> References: <0FAB6A25-739D-462D-BE0B-7768BCD04753@gmail.com> <76C8DE6E-7E98-45BA-96FC-E25ABFF4EFDE@gmail.com> In-Reply-To: <76C8DE6E-7E98-45BA-96FC-E25ABFF4EFDE@gmail.com> Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-ms-exchange-transport-fromentityheader: Hosted x-originating-ip: [10.24.67.225] Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable MIME-Version: 1.0 Archived-At: Cc: "lisp@ietf.org" , "pim@ietf.org" , "Stig Venaas \(svenaas\)" Subject: Re: [lisp] [pim] WGLC draft-ietf-pim-join-attributes-for-lisp-03 X-BeenThere: lisp@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.17 Precedence: list List-Id: List for the discussion of the Locator/ID Separation Protocol List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 08 Jun 2016 06:47:27 -0000 FYI, I am collaborating with Dino on his comments. We agreed to do some changes = and are actively working on them. I will share the changes and publish a ne= w draft version once we reach an agreement on the exact wording to use. Thanks Jesus -----Original Message----- From: Dino Farinacci [mailto:farinacci@gmail.com]=20 Sent: Thursday, June 2, 2016 7:47 PM To: Jesus Arango (jearango) Cc: pim@ietf.org; lisp@ietf.org; Stig Venaas (svenaas) Subject: Re: [lisp] [pim] WGLC draft-ietf-pim-join-attributes-for-lisp-03 > I don't think map-notifies are relevant in the context of this draft. Kee= p in mind that this draft is written for "pim-signaled" head-end replicatio= n. In your "signal-free" draft, map-notifies are the correct message becaus= e you are tracking changes in the set of receiver RLOCS and that translates= into changes in the merged RLOC set. In this draft, we are tracking change= s in source EID location and the proper message for that is an SMR. I was thinking of using Map-Notifies in this application not in the signal-= free one.=20 What you do is have the root-xTR register as a receiver-xTR so when a move= occurs the new root-xTR changes which causes the map-server to trigger a M= ap-Notify to each RLOC in the RLIC-set because there was an RLOC-set chang= e.=20 > The receivers do have map-caches. They In this data forwarding direction, this is an ETR. ETRs have database-entri= es which are registered. Used for decapsulation.=20 Mao-caches are used for encapsulation. There is no encapsulation in these r= eceiver-ETRs when data flows from a multicast source to the receivers the r= eceiver-ETR supports.=20 > have a map-cache entry mapping the source EID to the RLOC of the source X= TR. That is a map-cache entry in the root-ITR not in the ETRs.=20 > This is the map-cache entry that we want the SMR to refresh. The creation= of this That is why this is backwards.=20 > map-cache was not triggered by traffic. It was triggered by an RPF lookup= by PIM in the receiver XTR. Understand. But it should be called another data structure. Like an RPF dat= a structure, like a RIB is used in normal native routing.=20 In any event, if you don't clear up this text, it will be hard for anyone t= o understand this.=20 Dino From nobody Thu Jun 9 00:25:01 2016 Return-Path: X-Original-To: lisp@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: lisp@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2B7A112D0DF; Thu, 9 Jun 2016 00:24:58 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -5.646 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-5.646 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-2.3, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_H3=-0.01, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_WL=-0.01, RP_MATCHES_RCVD=-1.426] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id WWUrrpBZKsgE; Thu, 9 Jun 2016 00:24:56 -0700 (PDT) Received: from tcmail13.telekom.de (tcmail13.telekom.de [80.149.113.165]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher DHE-RSA-AES128-SHA (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 931D212D09B; 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charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 MIME-Version: 1.0 Archived-At: Cc: tom@herbertland.com, sarikaya@ieee.org, lisp@ietf.org, 5gangip@ietf.org Subject: Re: [lisp] offlist RE: 5G discussion at IETF96 side meeting X-BeenThere: lisp@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.17 Precedence: list List-Id: List for the discussion of the Locator/ID Separation Protocol List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 09 Jun 2016 07:24:58 -0000 SGkgRGlubywNClRoYW5rcyBhIGxvdCAtIGFsbCB2ZXJ5IG11Y2ggYXBwcmVjaWF0ZWQhDQpMZXQn cyBoYXZlIGEgZnJ1aXRmdWwgZGlzY3Vzc2lvbiB0aGVuIC4uLg0KDQpCZXN0IFJlZ2FyZHMNCkRp cmsgDQoNCi0tLS0tT3JpZ2luYWwgTWVzc2FnZS0tLS0tDQpGcm9tOiBEaW5vIEZhcmluYWNjaSBb bWFpbHRvOmZhcmluYWNjaUBnbWFpbC5jb21dIA0KU2VudDogRGllbnN0YWcsIDcuIEp1bmkgMjAx NiAxNjozOQ0KVG86IHZvbiBIdWdvLCBEaXJrDQpDYzogVG9tIEhlcmJlcnQ7IHNhcmlrYXlhQGll ZWUub3JnOyA1Z2FuZ2lwQGlldGYub3JnOyBMSVNQIG1haWxpbmcgbGlzdCBsaXN0DQpTdWJqZWN0 OiBSZTogb2ZmbGlzdCBSRTogNUcgZGlzY3Vzc2lvbiBhdCBJRVRGOTYgc2lkZSBtZWV0aW5nDQoN CkkgYW0gY29weWluZyB0aGUgTElTUCBXRyBtYWlsaW5nIGxpc3QuDQoNCj4gT24gSnVuIDcsIDIw MTYsIGF0IDI6NTMgQU0sIDxEaXJrLnZvbi1IdWdvQHRlbGVrb20uZGU+IDxEaXJrLnZvbi1IdWdv QHRlbGVrb20uZGU+IHdyb3RlOg0KPiANCj4gRGVhciBUb20gYW5kIERpbm8sDQo+IFRoYW5rcyBh Z2FpbiBmb3IgeW91ciBjb21taXRtZW50IGFuZCBvZmZlciB0byBzdGltdWxhdGUgdGhlIGRpc2N1 c3Npb24uIFBsZWFzZSBub3RlIHRoYXQgd2Ugb25seSBoYXZlIGEgb25lLWhvdXIgc2Vzc2lvbiBz byBlYWNoIHByZXNlbnRhdGlvbiBzaG91bGQgaGF2ZSBhcm91bmQgMTAgbWluLiAtIGkuZS4gcGxl YXNlIHRyeSB0byBmb2N1cyBvbiBtYWluIGFzcGVjdHMuDQoNCkkgY2FuIGRvIGEgMTAtbWludXRl IHByZXNvIGFuZCBoaWdobGlnaHQgdGhlIGhvdyBMSVNQIGNhbiB3b3JrIGluIGEgNUcgZW52aW9y bm1lbnQuDQoNCj4gQERpbm86IFBsZWFzZSBleGN1c2UgdXNpbmcgdGhlIGV4cHJlc3Npb24gJyBj bGFyaWZ5IG9uIExJU1AgaW4gZ2VuZXJhbCAnIC0gc3VjaCBhIHRpbWUgc2xvdCBvZiBjb3Vyc2Ug aXMgbm90IGVub3VnaCBmb3IgZnVsbCBjbGFyaWZpY2F0aW9uIG9mIGFsbCBpc3N1ZXMgd2l0aCBt b2JpbGl0eSBhbmQgY3VycmVudCBkaXNjdXNzaW9uIHN0YXR1cyBpbiBMSVNQIFdHIChmb3IgdGhp cyB5b3UgbWlnaHQgcG9pbnQgdG8gdGhlIExJU1AgV0cgc2Vzc2lvbiBpdHNlbGYgLSBvciB3ZSBj b3VsZCB0cnkgdG8gYXJyYW5nZSBhbm90aGVyIA0KDQpTbyBJIGNhbiBwdXQgYSBzbGlkZS1zZXQg dG9nZXRoZXIgdGhhdCBkb2VzIGEgY29tcGxldGUgZGVzY3JpcHRpb24gYW5kIHVzZSBhbiBhYnJp ZGdlZCB2ZXJzaW9uIGZvciB0aGUgNWdhbmdpcCBwcmVzZW50YXRpb24uIFdpbGwgdGhhdCB3b3Jr Pw0KDQo+IGV2ZW5pbmcvbmlnaHQgc2Vzc2lvbiBmb3IgdG8gaGF2ZSBhIGNoYW5jZSBkaXNjdXNz IGFsbCB0aG9zZSBkZXRhaWxzKS4gDQo+IFdoYXQgd2Ugd2FudGVkIHRvIHNheSBpcyB0aGF0IGFu IG92ZXJ2aWV3IG9uIDVHLXJlbGF0ZWQgTElTUCBhZHZhbnRhZ2VzIGFuZC9vciBleHBsYW5hdGlv biBvZiBjdXJyZW50IG15dGhzIGFuZCBjb21tb24gbWlzdW5kZXJzdGFuZGluZ3Mgd291bGQgYmUg Z3JlYXQg4oCmIA0KDQpTdXJlLg0KDQo+IFRodXMgdGhpcyB3b3VsZCBtYXRjaCB3aXRoIGFub3Ro ZXIgdGFsayBvbiBhIHNwZWNpZmljIExJU1AtYmFzZWQgc29sdXRpb24gYXBwcm9hY2ggc29sdmlu ZyBhIGRldGFpbGVkIDVHIHByb2JsZW0gcGxhbm5lZCBpbiB0aGF0IHNlc3Npb24uDQoNCldlIGNv dWxkIGhhdmUgNWdhbmdpcCBpbnRlcmVzdGVkIGZvbGtzIGF0dGVuZCB0aGUgTElTUCBXRyBmb3Ig dGhlIGxvbmdlciB2ZXJzaW9uLg0KDQo+IENhbiB3ZSBhZ3JlZSBvbiBzdWNoIGEgcHJvY2VkdXJl Pw0KDQpJIHRoaW5rIHNvLg0KDQpUaGFua3MsDQpEaW5vDQoNCj4gDQo+IFRoYW5rcyBmb3IgdW5k ZXJzdGFuZGluZyENCj4gDQo+IA0KPiBCZXN0IFJlZ2FyZHMNCj4gQmVoY2V0IGFuZCBEaXJrIA0K PiANCj4gLS0tLS1PcmlnaW5hbCBNZXNzYWdlLS0tLS0NCj4gRnJvbTogRGlubyBGYXJpbmFjY2kg W21haWx0bzpmYXJpbmFjY2lAZ21haWwuY29tXSANCj4gU2VudDogRnJlaXRhZywgMy4gSnVuaSAy MDE2IDE5OjQ4DQo+IFRvOiBUb20gSGVyYmVydA0KPiBDYzogdm9uIEh1Z28sIERpcms7IDVnYW5n aXBAaWV0Zi5vcmc7IHNhcmlrYXlhQGllZWUub3JnOyBmcmFuay5maXR6ZWtAdHUtZHJlc2Rlbi5k ZTsgai5jLnp1bmlnYUBpZWVlLm9yZw0KPiBTdWJqZWN0OiBSZTogNUcgZGlzY3Vzc2lvbiBhdCBJ RVRGOTYgc2lkZSBtZWV0aW5nDQo+IA0KPj4gV2UgYWxyZWFkeSBoYXZlIHNvbWUgcHJlc2VudGVy cyBmb3IgYXNwZWN0cyBvZiBJUCBhbmQgNUcgdGVjaG5vbG9naWVzIGFuZCBzbGljaW5nIGlzc3Vl cyAoRnJhbmsgYW5kIEp1YW4gQ2FybG9zKS4NCj4+PiBCZXNpZGVzIHRoYXQgRGlubyBwcm9taXNl ZCB0byBjbGFyaWZ5IG9uIExJU1AgaW4gZ2VuZXJhbCBhbmQgVG9tIGhvcGVmdWxseSBvbiBJTEEg YWx0ZXJuYXRpdmU/DQo+PiANCj4+IFllcywgd2Ugd291bGQgbGlrZSB0byBwcmVzZW50IGFuIElM QSBzb2x1dGlvbi4NCj4gDQo+IEFuZCBJ4oCZbGwgdGFrZSBhIGhhbGYgaG91ciBmb3IgdGhlIExJ U1AgbW9iaWxpdHkgc29sdXRpb24uIElmIHlvdSB3YW50IGEgTElTUCBXRyB1cGRhdGUgb24gdGhl IGxhdGVzdCBhbmQgZ3JlYXRlc3QsIGdpdmUgbWUgYW4gaG91ci4gWW91ciBjYWxsLg0KPiANCj4g RGlubw0KPiANCj4gDQoNCg== From nobody Sat Jun 11 22:12:33 2016 Return-Path: X-Original-To: lisp@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: lisp@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 53D2112D196 for ; 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Sun, 12 Jun 2016 05:12:00 +0000; 1465708320.697 Date: Sun, 12 Jun 2016 05:11:48 +0000 (UTC) From: Lloyd Wood To: Softwires WG , "int-area@ietf.org" , "lisp@ietf.org" , "tsvwg@ietf.org" , Xuxiaohu , "nvo3@ietf.org" Message-ID: <974977917.2492241.1465708308527.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> In-Reply-To: <1FEE3F8F5CCDE64C9A8E8F4AD27C19EE0D5596E0@NKGEML515-MBS.china.huawei.com> References: <573E2A0E.1060609@isi.edu> <1FEE3F8F5CCDE64C9A8E8F4AD27C19EE0D54EB60@NKGEML515-MBX.china.huawei.com> <573F453C.5060908@isi.edu> <1FEE3F8F5CCDE64C9A8E8F4AD27C19EE0D554B73@NKGEML515-MBS.china.huawei.com> <5743303C.5040109@isi.edu> <1FEE3F8F5CCDE64C9A8E8F4AD27C19EE0D55514C@NKGEML515-MBS.china.huawei.com> <5743DD16.3050506@isi.edu> <1FEE3F8F5CCDE64C9A8E8F4AD27C19EE0D555482@NKGEML515-MBS.china.huawei.com> <57448C14.2060203@isi.edu> <1FEE3F8F5CCDE64C9A8E8F4AD27C19EE0D5557DE@NKGEML515-MBS.china.huawei.com> <9c462520-eb8e-fcd0-0a08-228f80fbc779@isi.edu> <1FEE3F8F5CCDE64C9A8E8F4AD27C19EE0D5596E0@NKGEML515-MBS.china.huawei.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_Part_2492240_1136524516.1465708308517" Archived-At: Subject: Re: [lisp] [tsvwg] Is it feasible to perform fragmentation on UDP encapsulated packets. X-BeenThere: lisp@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.17 Precedence: list List-Id: List for the discussion of the Locator/ID Separation Protocol List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sun, 12 Jun 2016 05:12:14 -0000 X-List-Received-Date: Sun, 12 Jun 2016 05:12:14 -0000 ------=_Part_2492240_1136524516.1465708308517 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable blockquote, div.yahoo_quoted { margin-left: 0 !important; border-left:1px = #715FFA solid !important; padding-left:1ex !important; background-color:whi= te !important; } Fragmentation should be strongly discouraged. if you've designed a tunnelling solution and you have fragmentation happeni= ng as a matter of course, you've designed it wrong.=C2=A0 Lloyd Woodlloyd.wood@yahoo.co.uk On Friday, May 27, 2016, 8:10 PM, Xuxiaohu wrote: The possible side-effect of performing fragmentation on UDP encapsulated pa= ckets is to worsen the reassembly burden on tunnel egress since fragments o= f UDP encapsulated packets are more likely to be forwarded across different= paths towards the tunnel egress than those of IP or GRE encapsulated packe= ts. It seems that most X-over-UDP proposals choose to prohibit the tunnel ingre= ss from performing fragmentation on UDP encapsulated packets. See the follo= wing quoted text regarding fragmentation from those X-over-UDP drafts: LISP: When an ITR receives a packet from a site-facing interface and adds H =C2=A0 octets worth of encapsulation to yield a packet size greater than L =C2=A0 octets, it resolves the MTU issue by first splitting the original =C2=A0 packet into 2 equal-sized fragments.=C2=A0 A LISP header is then pre= pended =C2=A0 to each fragment. VXLAN: VTEPs MUST NOT fragment VXLAN packets.=C2=A0 Intermediate routers may =C2=A0 fragment encapsulated VXLAN packets due to the larger frame size. =C2=A0 The destination VTEP MAY silently discard such VXLAN fragments. VXLAN-GPE: VTEPs MUST never fragment an encapsulated VXLAN GPE packet, and when =C2=A0 the outer IP header is IPv4, VTEPs MUST set the DF bit in the outer =C2=A0 IPv4 header. GEVENE: =C2=A0 To prevent fragmentation and maximize performance, the best practice =C2=A0 when using Geneve is to ensure that the MTU of the physical network =C2=A0 is greater than or equal to the MTU of the encapsulated network plus =C2=A0 tunnel headers. GUE: =C2=A0 =C2=A0 If a packet is fragmented before encapsulation in GUE, all th= e =C2=A0 =C2=A0 related fragments must be encapsulated using the same source = port =C2=A0 =C2=A0 (inner flow identifier). An operator may set MTU to account f= or =C2=A0 =C2=A0 encapsulation overhead and reduce the likelihood of fragmenta= tion. GRE/UDP Regarding packet fragmentation, an encapsulator/decapsulator SHOULD =C2=A0 be compliant with [RFC7588] and perform fragmentation before the =C2=A0 encapsulation. However, the above choice seems conflict with the requirements as described= in https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-intarea-tunnels-02 I wonder whether the IETF should reach a consensus on whether or not the fr= agmentation on UDP encapsulated packets should be allowed. =C2=A0=20 Best regards, Xiaohu > -----Original Message----- > From: Xuxiaohu > Sent: Thursday, May 26, 2016 4:35 PM > To: 'Joe Touch'; Fred Baker (fred); Wassim Haddad > Cc: int-area@ietf.org > Subject: RE: [Int-area] Call for adoption of draft-xu-intarea-ip-in-udp-0= 3 >=20 >=20 >=20 > > -----Original Message----- > > From: Joe Touch [mailto:touch@isi.edu] > > Sent: Thursday, May 26, 2016 2:11 AM > > To: Xuxiaohu; Fred Baker (fred); Wassim Haddad > > Cc: int-area@ietf.org > > Subject: Re: [Int-area] Call for adoption of > > draft-xu-intarea-ip-in-udp-03 > > > > > > > > On 5/24/2016 7:24 PM, Xuxiaohu wrote: > > > Hi Joe, > > > > > > I wonder whether you want to tell me the following truth by the > > > example that you gave: no matter whatever improvements we had done > > > with this draft, those persons who dislike it by the light of nature > > > would dislike it in the end. > > > > The only improvements that would make this doc useful would be to add > > capabilities already in GRE/UDP or GUE/UDP, which we already have. >=20 > Let's go over the four things you mentioned earlier in GRE/UDP and GUE/UD= P: >=20 > =C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 - stronger checksums >=20 > In GRE/UDP, in order to use UDP-zero-checksum, it gave the following > restrictions: > " 6. UDP Checksum Handling >=20 >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 6.1. UDP Checksum with IPv4 >=20 >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 For UDP in IPv4, the UDP checksum MUST be processed as speci= fied in >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 [RFC768] and [RFC1122] for both transmit and receive. The IP= v4 >=20 >=20 >=20 > Yong, Crabber, Xu, Herbert=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2= =A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 = =C2=A0 [Page 12] > -------------------------------------------------------------------------= ------- >=20 > Internet-Draft=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 GRE-in-UDP Encapsulation= =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 March 2016 >=20 >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 header includes a checksum which protects against mis-delive= ry of >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 the packet due to corruption of IP addresses. The UDP checks= um >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 potentially provides protection against corruption of the UD= P header, >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 GRE header, and GRE payload. Disabling the use of checksums = is a >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 deployment consideration that should take into account the r= isk and >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 effects of packet corruption. >=20 >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 When a decapsulator receives a packet, the UDP checksum fiel= d MUST >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 be processed. If the UDP checksum is non-zero, the decapsula= tor MUST >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 verify the checksum before accepting the packet. By default = a >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 decapsulator SHOULD accept UDP packets with a zero checksum.= A node >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 MAY be configured to disallow zero checksums per [RFC1122]; = this may >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 be done selectively, for instance disallowing zero checksums= from >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 certain hosts that are known to be sending over paths subjec= t to >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 packet corruption. If verification of a non-zero checksum fa= ils, a >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 decapsulator lacks the capability to verify a non-zero check= sum, or >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 a packet with a zero-checksum was received and the decapsula= tor is >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 configured to disallow, the packet MUST be dropped and an ev= ent MAY >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 be logged. >=20 >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 6.2. UDP Checksum with IPv6 >=20 >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 For UDP in IPv6, the UDP checksum MUST be processed as speci= fied in >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 [RFC768] and [RFC2460] for both transmit and receive. >=20 >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 When UDP is used over IPv6, the UDP checksum is relied upon = to >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 protect both the IPv6 and UDP headers from corruption. As su= ch, A >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 default GRE-in-UDP Tunnel MUST perform UDP checksum; A TMCE = GRE-in- >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 UDP Tunnel MAY be configured with the UDP zero-checksum mode= if the >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 traffic-managed controlled environment or a set of closely >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 cooperating traffic-managed controlled environments (such as= by >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 network operators who have agreed to work together in order = to >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 jointly provide specific services) meet at least one of foll= owing >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 conditions: >=20 >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 a. It is known (perhaps through knowledge of equipment types= and >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 lower layer checks) that packet corruption is excepti= onally >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 unlikely and where the operator is willing to take th= e risk of >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 undetected packet corruption. >=20 >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 b. It is judged through observational measurements (perhaps = of >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 historic or current traffic flows that use a non-zero= checksum) >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 that the level of packet corruption is tolerably low = and where >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 the operator is willing to take the risk of undetecte= d packet >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 corruption. >=20 >=20 >=20 >=20 >=20 > Yong, Crabber, Xu, Herbert=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2= =A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 = =C2=A0 [Page 13] > -------------------------------------------------------------------------= ------- >=20 > Internet-Draft=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 GRE-in-UDP Encapsulation= =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 March 2016 >=20 >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 c. Carrying applications that are tolerant of mis-delivered = or >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 corrupted packets (perhaps through higher layer check= sum, >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 validation, and retransmission or transmission redund= ancy) where >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 the operator is willing to rely on the applications u= sing the >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 tunnel to survive any corrupt packets. >=20 >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 The following requirements apply to a TMCE GRE-in-UDP tunnel= that >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 use UDP zero-checksum mode: >=20 >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 a. Use of the UDP checksum with IPv6 MUST be the defa= ult >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 configuration of all GRE-in-UDP tunnels. >=20 >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 b. The GRE-in-UDP tunnel implementation MUST comply w= ith all >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 requirements specified in Section 4 of [RFC693= 6] and with >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 requirement 1 specified in Section 5 of [RFC69= 36]. >=20 >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 c. The tunnel decapsulator SHOULD only allow the use = of UDP zero- >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 checksum mode for IPv6 on a single received UD= P Destination >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 Port regardless of the encapsulator. The motiv= ation for this >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 requirement is possible corruption of the UDP = Destination Port, >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 which may cause packet delivery to the wrong U= DP port. If that >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 other UDP port requires the UDP checksum, the = mis-delivered >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 packet will be discarded. >=20 >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 d. It is RECOMMENDED that the UDP zero-checksum mode = for IPv6 is >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 only enabled for certain selected source addre= sses. The tunnel >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 decapsulator MUST check that the source and de= stination IPv6 >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 addresses are valid for the GRE-in-UDP tunnel = on which the >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 packet was received if that tunnel uses UDP ze= ro-checksum mode >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 and discard any packet for which this check fa= ils. >=20 >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 e. The tunnel encapsulator SHOULD use different IPv6 = addresses for >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 each GRE-in-UDP tunnel that uses UDP zero-chec= ksum mode >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 regardless of the decapsulator in order to str= engthen the >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 decapsulator's check of the IPv6 source addres= s (i.e., the same >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 IPv6 source address SHOULD NOT be used with mo= re than one IPv6 >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 destination address, independent of whether th= at destination >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 address is a unicast or multicast address). Wh= en this is not >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 possible, it is RECOMMENDED to use each source= IPv6 address for >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 as few UDP zero-checksum mode GRE-in-UDP tunne= ls as is feasible. >=20 >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 f. When any middlebox exists on the path of a GRE-in-= UDP tunnel, >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 it is RECOMMENDED to use the default mode, i.e= . use UDP >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 checksum, to reduce the chance that the encaps= ulated packets to >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 be dropped. >=20 >=20 >=20 >=20 >=20 > Yong, Crabber, Xu, Herbert=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2= =A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 = =C2=A0 [Page 14] > -------------------------------------------------------------------------= ------- >=20 > Internet-Draft=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 GRE-in-UDP Encapsulation= =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 March 2016 >=20 >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 g. Any middlebox that allows the UDP zero-checksum mo= de for IPv6 >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 MUST comply with requirement 1 and 8-10 in Sec= tion 5 of >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 [RFC6936]. >=20 >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 h. Measures SHOULD be taken to prevent IPv6 traffic w= ith zero UDP >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 checksums from "escaping" to the general Inter= net; see Section >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 8 for examples of such measures. >=20 >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 i. IPv6 traffic with zero UDP checksums MUST be activ= ely monitored >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 for errors by the network operator. For exampl= e, the operator >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 may monitor Ethernet layer packet error rates. >=20 >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 j. If a packet with a non-zero checksum is received, = the checksum >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 MUST be verified before accepting the packet. = This is >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 regardless of whether the tunnel encapsulator = and decapsulator >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 have been configured with UDP zero-checksum mo= de. >=20 >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 The above requirements do not change either the requirements >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 specified in [RFC2460] as modified by [RFC6935] or the requi= rements >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 specified in [RFC6936]. >=20 >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 The requirement to check the source IPv6 address in addition= to the >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 destination IPv6 address, plus the strong recommendation aga= inst >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 reuse of source IPv6 addresses among GRE-in-UDP tunnels coll= ectively >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 provide some mitigation for the absence of UDP checksum cove= rage of >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 the IPv6 header. A traffic-managed controlled environment th= at >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 satisfies at least one of three conditions listed above in t= his >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 section provides additional assurance. >=20 >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 A GRE-in-UDP tunnel is suitable for transmission over lower = layers >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 in the traffic-managed controlled environments that are allo= wed by >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 the exceptions stated above and the rate of corruption of th= e inner >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 IP packet on such networks is not expected to increase by co= mparison >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 to GRE traffic that is not encapsulated in UDP.=C2=A0 For th= ese reasons, >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 GRE-in-UDP does not provide an additional integrity check ex= cept >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 when GRE checksum is used when UDP zero-checksum mode is use= d with >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 IPv6, and this design is in accordance with requirements 2, = 3 and 5 >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 specified in Section 5 of [RFC6936]. >=20 >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 Generic Router Encapsulation (GRE) does not accumulate incor= rect >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 state as a consequence of GRE header corruption. A corrupt G= RE >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 packet may result in either packet discard or forwarding of = the >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 packet without accumulation of GRE state. Active monitoring = of GRE- >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 in-UDP traffic for errors is REQUIRED as occurrence of error= s will >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 result in some accumulation of error information outside the >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 protocol for operational and management purposes. This desig= n is in >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 accordance with requirement 4 specified in Section 5 of [RFC= 6936]. >=20 >=20 >=20 > Yong, Crabber, Xu, Herbert=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2= =A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 = =C2=A0 [Page 15] > -------------------------------------------------------------------------= ------- >=20 > Internet-Draft=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 GRE-in-UDP Encapsulation= =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 March 2016 >=20 >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 The remaining requirements specified in Section 5 of [RFC693= 6] are >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 not applicable to GRE-in-UDP.=C2=A0 Requirements 6 and 7 do = not apply >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 because GRE does not include a control feedback mechanism. >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 Requirements 8-10 are middlebox requirements that do not app= ly to >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 GRE-in-UDP tunnel endpoints (see Section 7.1 for further mid= dlebox >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 discussion). >=20 >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 It is worth mentioning that the use of a zero UDP checksum s= hould >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 present the equivalent risk of undetected packet corruption = when >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 sending similar packet using GRE-in-IPv6 without UDP [RFC767= 6] and >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 without GRE checksums. >=20 >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 In summary, a TMCE GRE-in-UDP Tunnel is allowed to use UDP-z= ero- >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 checksum mode for IPv6 when the conditions and requirements = stated >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 above are met. Otherwise the UDP checksum need to be used fo= r IPv6 >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 as specified in [RFC768] and [RFC2460]. Use of GRE checksum = is >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 RECOMMENED when the UDP checksum is not used. > " >=20 > In GUE, to support UDP-checksum-zero, it said >=20 > " Therefore, when GUE is used over >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 IPv6, either the UDP checksum must be enabled or the GUE hea= der >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 checksum must be used.=C2=A0 An encapsulator MAY set a zero = UDP checksum >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 for performance or implementation reasons, in which case the= GUE >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 header checksum MUST be used or applicable requirements for = using >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 zero UDP checksums in [GREUDP] MUST be met. If the UDP check= sum is >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 enabled, then the GUE header checksum should not be used sin= ce it is >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 mostly redundant." >=20 > It's easy for me to add the similar words to the IP-in-UDP draft like "th= e > applicable requirements for using zero UDP checksum in [GREUDP] MUST be > met when zero UDP checksum is used by the tunnel ingress". However, the > major goal for disabling the UDP checksum is to improve the performance. > When GUE header checksum is used and/or the bunch of applicable > requirements as described in GRE/UDP are verified, is the goal of improvi= ng > performance still achievable? If not, why not directly enable the UDP-che= cksum > instead? >=20 > =C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 - fragmentation support >=20 > In GRE/UDP, it said >=20 > " 4.1. MTU and Fragmentation >=20 >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 Regarding packet fragmentation, an encapsulator/decapsulator= SHOULD >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 be compliant with [RFC7588] and perform fragmentation before= the >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 encapsulation. The size of fragments SHOULD be less or equal= to the >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 PMTU associated with the path between the GRE ingress and th= e GRE >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 egress tunnel endpoints minus the GRE and UDP overhead ..." >=20 > in GUE, it said >=20 > " 4.9. MTU and fragmentation >=20 >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 Standard conventions for handling of MTU (Maximum Transmissi= on Unit) >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 and fragmentation in conjunction with networking tunnels >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 (encapsulation of layer 2 or layer 3 packets) should be foll= owed. >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 Details are described in MTU and Fragmentation Issues with I= n-the- >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 Network Tunneling [RFC4459]... " >=20 > It seems that the only missing thing in the IP-in-UDP draft is to allow t= he outer > fragmentation. However, as it said in > (https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-intarea-tunnels-02#page-13), " ..= .IPsec > performs only Outer Fragmentation; this distinguishes it from IP-in-IP, w= hich > performs only Inner Fragmentation. " Note that IP-in-IP is the dominant > encapsulation choice within Softwires networks. In other words, performin= g > only inner fragmentation works very well in practice. Furthermore, the ou= ter > fragmentation issue (e.g., reassembly cost for the egress) would become e= ven > worse since the fragments of X-in-UDP packets are more likely to be forwa= rded > across different paths than those of X-in-IP and X-in-GRE packets. Hence,= I'm > wondering whether it's worthwhile to support the outer fragmentation on U= DP > encapsulated packets which seems useless in practice. >=20 > =C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 - signalling support (e.g., to test whether a tunnel i= s up or > =C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 to measure MTUs) >=20 > I haven't found any description of this in both GRE/UDP and GUE. Did you? >=20 > =C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 - support for robust ID fields (related to fragmentati= on, > =C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 e.g., to overcome the limits of IPv4 ID as per RFC 686= 4) >=20 > I haven't found any description of this in both GRE/UDP and GUE. Did you? >=20 > Xiaohu >=20 > > It is not our obligation to find a way for your document to proceed - > > that onus is on you. > > > > Joe =20 ------=_Part_2492240_1136524516.1465708308517 Content-Type: text/html; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Fragmentation should be strongly discouraged.

if you've designed a tunnelling solution and you have fragmentation h= appening as a matter of course, you've designed it wrong. 

Lloy= d Wood
lloyd.wood@yahoo.co.uk

On Friday, May 27, 2016, 8:10 PM, Xuxiaohu <xuxiaohu@huawei.com> wro= te:

<Note that I have changed the subject = of the email hence it has nothing to do with the WG adoption call now. It's= just a discussion on a particular issue which is related to those WGs whic= h are working on UDP tunnels. The reason for containing the old email is to= use it as a background which may be useful for better understanding of thi= s particular issue>

The possible side-effect of performing fragme= ntation on UDP encapsulated packets is to worsen the reassembly burden on t= unnel egress since fragments of UDP encapsulated packets are more likely to= be forwarded across different paths towards the tunnel egress than those o= f IP or GRE encapsulated packets.

It seems that most X-over-UDP prop= osals choose to prohibit the tunnel ingress from performing fragmentation o= n UDP encapsulated packets. See the following quoted text regarding fragmen= tation from those X-over-UDP drafts:

LISP:

When an ITR receiv= es a packet from a site-facing interface and adds H
  octets worth= of encapsulation to yield a packet size greater than L
  octets, = it resolves the MTU issue by first splitting the original
  packet= into 2 equal-sized fragments.  A LISP header is then prepended
&nb= sp; to each fragment.

VXLAN:

VTEPs MUST NOT fragment VXLAN p= ackets.  Intermediate routers may
  fragment encapsulated VXL= AN packets due to the larger frame size.
  The destination VTEP MA= Y silently discard such VXLAN fragments.

VXLAN-GPE:

VTEPs MUS= T never fragment an encapsulated VXLAN GPE packet, and when
  the = outer IP header is IPv4, VTEPs MUST set the DF bit in the outer
  = IPv4 header.

GEVENE:

  To prevent fragmentation and max= imize performance, the best practice
  when using Geneve is to ens= ure that the MTU of the physical network
  is greater than or equa= l to the MTU of the encapsulated network plus
  tunnel headers.
GUE:

    If a packet is fragmented before encapsulati= on in GUE, all the
    related fragments must be encapsulated = using the same source port
    (inner flow identifier). An ope= rator may set MTU to account for
    encapsulation overhead an= d reduce the likelihood of fragmentation.

GRE/UDP

Regarding p= acket fragmentation, an encapsulator/decapsulator SHOULD
  be comp= liant with [RFC7588] and perform fragmentation before the
  encaps= ulation.

However, the above choice seems conflict with the requireme= nts as described in https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-int= area-tunnels-02


I wonder whether the IETF should reach a con= sensus on whether or not the fragmentation on UDP encapsulated packets shou= ld be allowed.
 
Best regards,
Xiaohu

> -----Origi= nal Message-----
> From: Xuxiaohu
> Sent: Thursday, May 26, 201= 6 4:35 PM
> To: 'Joe Touch'; Fred Baker (fred); Wassim Haddad
>= Cc: int= -area@ietf.org
> Subject: RE: [Int-area] Call for adoption of dra= ft-xu-intarea-ip-in-udp-03
>
>
>
> > -----Ori= ginal Message-----
> > From: Joe Touch [mailto:touch@isi.edu]
> >= Sent: Thursday, May 26, 2016 2:11 AM
> > To: Xuxiaohu; Fred Baker= (fred); Wassim Haddad
> > Cc: int-area@ietf.org
> > Subject:= Re: [Int-area] Call for adoption of
> > draft-xu-intarea-ip-in-ud= p-03
> >
> >
> >
> > On 5/24/2016 7:24 = PM, Xuxiaohu wrote:
> > > Hi Joe,
> > >
> >= ; > I wonder whether you want to tell me the following truth by the
&= gt; > > example that you gave: no matter whatever improvements we had= done
> > > with this draft, those persons who dislike it by th= e light of nature
> > > would dislike it in the end.
> &g= t;
> > The only improvements that would make this doc useful would= be to add
> > capabilities already in GRE/UDP or GUE/UDP, which w= e already have.
>
> Let's go over the four things you mentione= d earlier in GRE/UDP and GUE/UDP:
>
>     - str= onger checksums
>
> In GRE/UDP, in order to use UDP-zero-check= sum, it gave the following
> restrictions:
> " 6. UDP Checksum = Handling
>
>    6.1. UDP Checksum with IPv4
> =
>    For UDP in IPv4, the UDP checksum MUST be processed a= s specified in
>    [RFC768] and [RFC1122] for both transmi= t and receive. The IPv4
>
>
>
> Yong, Crabber, X= u, Herbert                  &n= bsp;                 [Page 12]
&= gt; -----------------------------------------------------------------------= ---------
>
> Internet-Draft         = GRE-in-UDP Encapsulation            March 2= 016
>
>    header includes a checksum which protects= against mis-delivery of
>    the packet due to corruption = of IP addresses. The UDP checksum
>    potentially provides= protection against corruption of the UDP header,
>    GRE = header, and GRE payload. Disabling the use of checksums is a
>  =   deployment consideration that should take into account the risk and<= br>>    effects of packet corruption.
>
>  &= nbsp; When a decapsulator receives a packet, the UDP checksum field MUST>    be processed. If the UDP checksum is non-zero, the decap= sulator MUST
>    verify the checksum before accepting the = packet. By default a
>    decapsulator SHOULD accept UDP pa= ckets with a zero checksum. A node
>    MAY be configured t= o disallow zero checksums per [RFC1122]; this may
>    be d= one selectively, for instance disallowing zero checksums from
> =   certain hosts that are known to be sending over paths subject to>    packet corruption. If verification of a non-zero checksu= m fails, a
>    decapsulator lacks the capability to verify= a non-zero checksum, or
>    a packet with a zero-checksum= was received and the decapsulator is
>    configured to di= sallow, the packet MUST be dropped and an event MAY
>    be= logged.
>
>    6.2. UDP Checksum with IPv6
> =
>    For UDP in IPv6, the UDP checksum MUST be processed a= s specified in
>    [RFC768] and [RFC2460] for both transmi= t and receive.
>
>    When UDP is used over IPv6, th= e UDP checksum is relied upon to
>    protect both the IPv6= and UDP headers from corruption. As such, A
>    default G= RE-in-UDP Tunnel MUST perform UDP checksum; A TMCE GRE-in-
>  &n= bsp; UDP Tunnel MAY be configured with the UDP zero-checksum mode if the>    traffic-managed controlled environment or a set of close= ly
>    cooperating traffic-managed controlled environments= (such as by
>    network operators who have agreed to work= together in order to
>    jointly provide specific service= s) meet at least one of following
>    conditions:
> =
>    a. It is known (perhaps through knowledge of equipmen= t types and
>      lower layer checks) that packet co= rruption is exceptionally
>      unlikely and where t= he operator is willing to take the risk of
>      und= etected packet corruption.
>
>    b. It is judged th= rough observational measurements (perhaps of
>      h= istoric or current traffic flows that use a non-zero checksum)
> = ;     that the level of packet corruption is tolerably low and w= here
>      the operator is willing to take the risk = of undetected packet
>      corruption.
>
&= gt;
>
>
>
> Yong, Crabber, Xu, Herbert  &n= bsp;                     =             [Page 13]
> ---------------= -----------------------------------------------------------------
> <= br>> Internet-Draft          GRE-in-UDP Encapsu= lation            March 2016
>
>= ;    c. Carrying applications that are tolerant of mis-delivered = or
>      corrupted packets (perhaps through higher l= ayer checksum,
>      validation, and retransmission = or transmission redundancy) where
>      the operator= is willing to rely on the applications using the
>    &nbs= p; tunnel to survive any corrupt packets.
>
>    Th= e following requirements apply to a TMCE GRE-in-UDP tunnel that
>&nbs= p;   use UDP zero-checksum mode:
>
>      = a. Use of the UDP checksum with IPv6 MUST be the default
>  &nbs= p;     configuration of all GRE-in-UDP tunnels.
>
>=       b. The GRE-in-UDP tunnel implementation MUST comply wi= th all
>        requirements specified in Sectio= n 4 of [RFC6936] and with
>        requirement 1= specified in Section 5 of [RFC6936].
>
>      = c. The tunnel decapsulator SHOULD only allow the use of UDP zero-
>&n= bsp;       checksum mode for IPv6 on a single received UDP = Destination
>        Port regardless of the enca= psulator. The motivation for this
>        requi= rement is possible corruption of the UDP Destination Port,
>  &n= bsp;     which may cause packet delivery to the wrong UDP port. = If that
>        other UDP port requires the UDP= checksum, the mis-delivered
>        packet wil= l be discarded.
>
>      d. It is RECOMMENDED t= hat the UDP zero-checksum mode for IPv6 is
>      &nbs= p; only enabled for certain selected source addresses. The tunnel
>&= nbsp;       decapsulator MUST check that the source and des= tination IPv6
>        addresses are valid for t= he GRE-in-UDP tunnel on which the
>        packe= t was received if that tunnel uses UDP zero-checksum mode
>  &nb= sp;     and discard any packet for which this check fails.
&g= t;
>      e. The tunnel encapsulator SHOULD use diffe= rent IPv6 addresses for
>        each GRE-in-UDP= tunnel that uses UDP zero-checksum mode
>       = regardless of the decapsulator in order to strengthen the
>  &= nbsp;     decapsulator's check of the IPv6 source address (i.e.,= the same
>        IPv6 source address SHOULD NO= T be used with more than one IPv6
>        desti= nation address, independent of whether that destination
>   = ;     address is a unicast or multicast address). When this is n= ot
>        possible, it is RECOMMENDED to use e= ach source IPv6 address for
>        as few UDP = zero-checksum mode GRE-in-UDP tunnels as is feasible.
>
> = ;     f. When any middlebox exists on the path of a GRE-in-UDP tu= nnel,
>        it is RECOMMENDED to use the defa= ult mode, i.e. use UDP
>        checksum, to red= uce the chance that the encapsulated packets to
>     =   be dropped.
>
>
>
>
>
> Y= ong, Crabber, Xu, Herbert              &= nbsp;                    = [Page 14]
> --------------------------------------------------------= ------------------------
>
> Internet-Draft     = ;     GRE-in-UDP Encapsulation          =   March 2016
>
>      g. Any middlebox th= at allows the UDP zero-checksum mode for IPv6
>      &= nbsp; MUST comply with requirement 1 and 8-10 in Section 5 of
> = ;       [RFC6936].
>
>      h. = Measures SHOULD be taken to prevent IPv6 traffic with zero UDP
> = ;       checksums from "escaping" to the general Internet; = see Section
>        8 for examples of such meas= ures.
>
>      i. IPv6 traffic with zero UDP ch= ecksums MUST be actively monitored
>        for = errors by the network operator. For example, the operator
>  &nb= sp;     may monitor Ethernet layer packet error rates.
> <= br>>      j. If a packet with a non-zero checksum is rece= ived, the checksum
>        MUST be verified bef= ore accepting the packet. This is
>        regar= dless of whether the tunnel encapsulator and decapsulator
>  &nb= sp;     have been configured with UDP zero-checksum mode.
>= ;
>    The above requirements do not change either the req= uirements
>    specified in [RFC2460] as modified by [RFC69= 35] or the requirements
>    specified in [RFC6936].
>= ;
>    The requirement to check the source IPv6 address in= addition to the
>    destination IPv6 address, plus the st= rong recommendation against
>    reuse of source IPv6 addre= sses among GRE-in-UDP tunnels collectively
>    provide som= e mitigation for the absence of UDP checksum coverage of
>  &nbs= p; the IPv6 header. A traffic-managed controlled environment that
>&n= bsp;   satisfies at least one of three conditions listed above in this=
>    section provides additional assurance.
>
&g= t;    A GRE-in-UDP tunnel is suitable for transmission over lower= layers
>    in the traffic-managed controlled environments= that are allowed by
>    the exceptions stated above and t= he rate of corruption of the inner
>    IP packet on such n= etworks is not expected to increase by comparison
>    to G= RE traffic that is not encapsulated in UDP.  For these reasons,
>= ;    GRE-in-UDP does not provide an additional integrity check ex= cept
>    when GRE checksum is used when UDP zero-checksum = mode is used with
>    IPv6, and this design is in accordan= ce with requirements 2, 3 and 5
>    specified in Section 5= of [RFC6936].
>
>    Generic Router Encapsulation (= GRE) does not accumulate incorrect
>    state as a conseque= nce of GRE header corruption. A corrupt GRE
>    packet may= result in either packet discard or forwarding of the
>    = packet without accumulation of GRE state. Active monitoring of GRE-
>=     in-UDP traffic for errors is REQUIRED as occurrence of errors= will
>    result in some accumulation of error information= outside the
>    protocol for operational and management p= urposes. This design is in
>    accordance with requirement= 4 specified in Section 5 of [RFC6936].
>
>
>
> = Yong, Crabber, Xu, Herbert              =                      = ; [Page 15]
> -------------------------------------------------------= -------------------------
>
> Internet-Draft    &nbs= p;     GRE-in-UDP Encapsulation         =   March 2016
>
>    The remaining requirement= s specified in Section 5 of [RFC6936] are
>    not applicab= le to GRE-in-UDP.  Requirements 6 and 7 do not apply
>  &nb= sp; because GRE does not include a control feedback mechanism.
> = ;   Requirements 8-10 are middlebox requirements that do not apply to<= br>>    GRE-in-UDP tunnel endpoints (see Section 7.1 for furth= er middlebox
>    discussion).
>
>   = ; It is worth mentioning that the use of a zero UDP checksum should
>=     present the equivalent risk of undetected packet corruption w= hen
>    sending similar packet using GRE-in-IPv6 without U= DP [RFC7676] and
>    without GRE checksums.
>
&g= t;    In summary, a TMCE GRE-in-UDP Tunnel is allowed to use UDP-= zero-
>    checksum mode for IPv6 when the conditions and r= equirements stated
>    above are met. Otherwise the UDP ch= ecksum need to be used for IPv6
>    as specified in [RFC76= 8] and [RFC2460]. Use of GRE checksum is
>    RECOMMENED wh= en the UDP checksum is not used.
> "
>
> In GUE, to supp= ort UDP-checksum-zero, it said
>
> " Therefore, when GUE is us= ed over
>    IPv6, either the UDP checksum must be enabled= or the GUE header
>    checksum must be used.  An en= capsulator MAY set a zero UDP checksum
>    for performanc= e or implementation reasons, in which case the GUE
>    he= ader checksum MUST be used or applicable requirements for using
>&nbs= p;   zero UDP checksums in [GREUDP] MUST be met. If the UDP checksum = is
>    enabled, then the GUE header checksum should not b= e used since it is
>    mostly redundant."
>
>= ; It's easy for me to add the similar words to the IP-in-UDP draft like "th= e
> applicable requirements for using zero UDP checksum in [GREUDP] M= UST be
> met when zero UDP checksum is used by the tunnel ingress". H= owever, the
> major goal for disabling the UDP checksum is to improve= the performance.
> When GUE header checksum is used and/or the bunch= of applicable
> requirements as described in GRE/UDP are verified, i= s the goal of improving
> performance still achievable? If not, why n= ot directly enable the UDP-checksum
> instead?
>
>  = ;   - fragmentation support
>
> In GRE/UDP, it said<= br>>
> " 4.1. MTU and Fragmentation
>
>   = Regarding packet fragmentation, an encapsulator/decapsulator SHOULD
>= ;    be compliant with [RFC7588] and perform fragmentation before= the
>    encapsulation. The size of fragments SHOULD be le= ss or equal to the
>    PMTU associated with the path betwe= en the GRE ingress and the GRE
>    egress tunnel endpoints= minus the GRE and UDP overhead ..."
>
> in GUE, it said
&g= t;
> " 4.9. MTU and fragmentation
>
>    Sta= ndard conventions for handling of MTU (Maximum Transmission Unit)
>&n= bsp;   and fragmentation in conjunction with networking tunnels
&g= t;    (encapsulation of layer 2 or layer 3 packets) should be fo= llowed.
>    Details are described in MTU and Fragmentatio= n Issues with In-the-
>    Network Tunneling [RFC4459]... = "
>
> It seems that the only missing thing in the IP-in-UDP dr= aft is to allow the outer
> fragmentation. However, as it said in
= > (https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-intarea-t= unnels-02#page-13), " ...IPsec
> performs only Outer Fragmentatio= n; this distinguishes it from IP-in-IP, which
> performs only Inner F= ragmentation. " Note that IP-in-IP is the dominant
> encapsulation ch= oice within Softwires networks. In other words, performing
> only inn= er fragmentation works very well in practice. Furthermore, the outer
>= ; fragmentation issue (e.g., reassembly cost for the egress) would become e= ven
> worse since the fragments of X-in-UDP packets are more likely t= o be forwarded
> across different paths than those of X-in-IP and X-i= n-GRE packets. Hence, I'm
> wondering whether it's worthwhile to supp= ort the outer fragmentation on UDP
> encapsulated packets which seems= useless in practice.
>
>     - signalling supp= ort (e.g., to test whether a tunnel is up or
>     to = measure MTUs)
>
> I haven't found any description of this in b= oth GRE/UDP and GUE. Did you?
>
>     - support= for robust ID fields (related to fragmentation,
>    = e.g., to overcome the limits of IPv4 ID as per RFC 6864)
>
> = I haven't found any description of this in both GRE/UDP and GUE. Did you?>
> Xiaohu
>
> > It is not our obligation to fi= nd a way for your document to proceed -
> > that onus is on you.> >
> > Joe
------=_Part_2492240_1136524516.1465708308517-- From nobody Sat Jun 11 23:25:58 2016 Return-Path: X-Original-To: lisp@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: lisp@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id A822A128E19; Sat, 11 Jun 2016 23:25:54 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -15.946 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-15.946 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_HI=-5, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_H3=-0.01, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_WL=-0.01, RP_MATCHES_RCVD=-1.426, SPF_PASS=-0.001, USER_IN_DEF_DKIM_WL=-7.5] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (1024-bit key) header.d=cisco.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id ymAnrPgA0aM5; Sat, 11 Jun 2016 23:25:51 -0700 (PDT) Received: from alln-iport-4.cisco.com (alln-iport-4.cisco.com [173.37.142.91]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher DHE-RSA-SEED-SHA (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id F0CF812B032; Sat, 11 Jun 2016 23:25:50 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/simple; d=cisco.com; i=@cisco.com; l=45990; q=dns/txt; s=iport; t=1465712751; x=1466922351; h=from:to:subject:date:message-id:references:in-reply-to: mime-version; bh=di5l6+f5gqYQnykPUrLFrCOeeS4V5drp4Rpky/CeWbE=; b=Nt032ABlguuXJ+iCqgw6OZcGxbbfgfaViDfqDPki4h7zo99tBKjFhlmV lM8aKpQZj1JTZEH4mV2kirgwPhlAt+smLbvSv2RbhDWYuEf802zUNBKdr 8GsPeEmWujQVRK0dYiWzHvVTqZfGvqSRjZMI7v0noknJeGwJmI+Of20j2 Y=; X-IronPort-Anti-Spam-Filtered: true X-IronPort-Anti-Spam-Result: =?us-ascii?q?A0AQAgDh/lxX/4QNJK1dgnBOVn0Grx2MA?= =?us-ascii?q?IF5IoV1AoEhOBQBAQEBAQEBZSeESgEBAQMBGgECEFEHBAIBCBEDAQEBARULAQY?= =?us-ascii?q?HMhQJCAIEARIbh3sDDwgOvSgBAQEBAQEBAQEBAQEBAQEBAQEBAQEXAQQLhhyDS?= =?us-ascii?q?oEDgkOBTxEBIwcSGAeFHAWGRQyBO5AhNAGGA4J4gziBdI8giAGHbAEeNoIHHBa?= =?us-ascii?q?BNW6IRg0XBxh/AQEB?= X-IronPort-AV: E=Sophos;i="5.26,460,1459814400"; d="scan'208,217";a="283770831" Received: from alln-core-10.cisco.com ([173.36.13.132]) by alln-iport-4.cisco.com with ESMTP/TLS/DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA; 12 Jun 2016 06:25:48 +0000 Received: from XCH-ALN-013.cisco.com (xch-aln-013.cisco.com [173.36.7.23]) by alln-core-10.cisco.com (8.14.5/8.14.5) with ESMTP id u5C6PmSk000872 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Sun, 12 Jun 2016 06:25:48 GMT Received: from xch-aln-014.cisco.com (173.36.7.24) by XCH-ALN-013.cisco.com (173.36.7.23) with Microsoft SMTP Server (TLS) id 15.0.1104.5; Sun, 12 Jun 2016 01:25:47 -0500 Received: from xch-aln-014.cisco.com ([173.36.7.24]) by XCH-ALN-014.cisco.com ([173.36.7.24]) with mapi id 15.00.1104.009; Sun, 12 Jun 2016 01:25:47 -0500 From: "Saumya Dikshit (sadikshi)" To: Lloyd Wood , Softwires WG , "int-area@ietf.org" , "lisp@ietf.org" , "tsvwg@ietf.org" , Xuxiaohu , "nvo3@ietf.org" Thread-Topic: [nvo3] [tsvwg] Is it feasible to perform fragmentation on UDP encapsulated packets. Thread-Index: AQHRxHNBx0FCT/ugokeOCF2M3CVw6A== Date: Sun, 12 Jun 2016 06:25:47 +0000 Message-ID: References: <573E2A0E.1060609@isi.edu> <1FEE3F8F5CCDE64C9A8E8F4AD27C19EE0D54EB60@NKGEML515-MBX.china.huawei.com> <573F453C.5060908@isi.edu> <1FEE3F8F5CCDE64C9A8E8F4AD27C19EE0D554B73@NKGEML515-MBS.china.huawei.com> <5743303C.5040109@isi.edu> <1FEE3F8F5CCDE64C9A8E8F4AD27C19EE0D55514C@NKGEML515-MBS.china.huawei.com> <5743DD16.3050506@isi.edu> <1FEE3F8F5CCDE64C9A8E8F4AD27C19EE0D555482@NKGEML515-MBS.china.huawei.com> <57448C14.2060203@isi.edu> <1FEE3F8F5CCDE64C9A8E8F4AD27C19EE0D5557DE@NKGEML515-MBS.china.huawei.com> <9c462520-eb8e-fcd0-0a08-228f80fbc779@isi.edu> <1FEE3F8F5CCDE64C9A8E8F4AD27C19EE0D5596E0@NKGEML515-MBS.china.huawei.com> <974977917.2492241.1465708308527.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> In-Reply-To: <974977917.2492241.1465708308527.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: user-agent: Microsoft-MacOutlook/14.4.8.150116 x-ms-exchange-messagesentrepresentingtype: 1 x-ms-exchange-transport-fromentityheader: Hosted x-originating-ip: [10.65.85.139] Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="_000_D382FCD56783Csadikshiciscocom_" MIME-Version: 1.0 Archived-At: Subject: Re: [lisp] [nvo3] [tsvwg] Is it feasible to perform fragmentation on UDP encapsulated packets. X-BeenThere: lisp@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.17 Precedence: list List-Id: List for the discussion of the Locator/ID Separation Protocol List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sun, 12 Jun 2016 06:25:55 -0000 --_000_D382FCD56783Csadikshiciscocom_ Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable In case of typical datacenter brownfield deployments, the underlay and overlay may be completely disconnected operationally, hence there can be cases where the mtu mismatch in underlay network may not be notified to overlay endpoints and subsequently to end hosts. From: Lloyd Wood > Date: Sunday, June 12, 2016 at 10:41 AM To: Softwires WG >, "int-area= @ietf.org" >, "lisp@ietf.org" >, "tsvwg@ietf.org" >, Xuxiaohu >= , "nvo3@ietf.org" > Subject: Re: [nvo3] [tsvwg] Is it feasible to perform fragmentation on UDP = encapsulated packets. Fragmentation should be strongly discouraged. if you've designed a tunnelling solution and you have fragmentation happeni= ng as a matter of course, you've designed it wrong. Lloyd Wood lloyd.wood@yahoo.co.uk On Friday, May 27, 2016, 8:10 PM, Xuxiaohu > wrote: The possible side-effect of performing fragmentation on UDP encapsulated pa= ckets is to worsen the reassembly burden on tunnel egress since fragments o= f UDP encapsulated packets are more likely to be forwarded across different= paths towards the tunnel egress than those of IP or GRE encapsulated packe= ts. It seems that most X-over-UDP proposals choose to prohibit the tunnel ingre= ss from performing fragmentation on UDP encapsulated packets. See the follo= wing quoted text regarding fragmentation from those X-over-UDP drafts: LISP: When an ITR receives a packet from a site-facing interface and adds H octets worth of encapsulation to yield a packet size greater than L octets, it resolves the MTU issue by first splitting the original packet into 2 equal-sized fragments. A LISP header is then prepended to each fragment. VXLAN: VTEPs MUST NOT fragment VXLAN packets. Intermediate routers may fragment encapsulated VXLAN packets due to the larger frame size. The destination VTEP MAY silently discard such VXLAN fragments. VXLAN-GPE: VTEPs MUST never fragment an encapsulated VXLAN GPE packet, and when the outer IP header is IPv4, VTEPs MUST set the DF bit in the outer IPv4 header. GEVENE: To prevent fragmentation and maximize performance, the best practice when using Geneve is to ensure that the MTU of the physical network is greater than or equal to the MTU of the encapsulated network plus tunnel headers. GUE: If a packet is fragmented before encapsulation in GUE, all the related fragments must be encapsulated using the same source port (inner flow identifier). An operator may set MTU to account for encapsulation overhead and reduce the likelihood of fragmentation. GRE/UDP Regarding packet fragmentation, an encapsulator/decapsulator SHOULD be compliant with [RFC7588] and perform fragmentation before the encapsulation. However, the above choice seems conflict with the requirements as described= in https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-intarea-tunnels-02 I wonder whether the IETF should reach a consensus on whether or not the fr= agmentation on UDP encapsulated packets should be allowed. Best regards, Xiaohu > -----Original Message----- > From: Xuxiaohu > Sent: Thursday, May 26, 2016 4:35 PM > To: 'Joe Touch'; Fred Baker (fred); Wassim Haddad > Cc: int-area@ietf.org > Subject: RE: [Int-area] Call for adoption of draft-xu-intarea-ip-in-udp-0= 3 > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: Joe Touch [mailto:touch@isi.edu] > > Sent: Thursday, May 26, 2016 2:11 AM > > To: Xuxiaohu; Fred Baker (fred); Wassim Haddad > > Cc: int-area@ietf.org > > Subject: Re: [Int-area] Call for adoption of > > draft-xu-intarea-ip-in-udp-03 > > > > > > > > On 5/24/2016 7:24 PM, Xuxiaohu wrote: > > > Hi Joe, > > > > > > I wonder whether you want to tell me the following truth by the > > > example that you gave: no matter whatever improvements we had done > > > with this draft, those persons who dislike it by the light of nature > > > would dislike it in the end. > > > > The only improvements that would make this doc useful would be to add > > capabilities already in GRE/UDP or GUE/UDP, which we already have. > > Let's go over the four things you mentioned earlier in GRE/UDP and GUE/UD= P: > > - stronger checksums > > In GRE/UDP, in order to use UDP-zero-checksum, it gave the following > restrictions: > " 6. UDP Checksum Handling > > 6.1. UDP Checksum with IPv4 > > For UDP in IPv4, the UDP checksum MUST be processed as specified in > [RFC768] and [RFC1122] for both transmit and receive. The IPv4 > > > > Yong, Crabber, Xu, Herbert [Page 12] > -------------------------------------------------------------------------= ------- > > Internet-Draft GRE-in-UDP Encapsulation March 2016 > > header includes a checksum which protects against mis-delivery of > the packet due to corruption of IP addresses. The UDP checksum > potentially provides protection against corruption of the UDP header, > GRE header, and GRE payload. Disabling the use of checksums is a > deployment consideration that should take into account the risk and > effects of packet corruption. > > When a decapsulator receives a packet, the UDP checksum field MUST > be processed. If the UDP checksum is non-zero, the decapsulator MUST > verify the checksum before accepting the packet. By default a > decapsulator SHOULD accept UDP packets with a zero checksum. A node > MAY be configured to disallow zero checksums per [RFC1122]; this may > be done selectively, for instance disallowing zero checksums from > certain hosts that are known to be sending over paths subject to > packet corruption. If verification of a non-zero checksum fails, a > decapsulator lacks the capability to verify a non-zero checksum, or > a packet with a zero-checksum was received and the decapsulator is > configured to disallow, the packet MUST be dropped and an event MAY > be logged. > > 6.2. UDP Checksum with IPv6 > > For UDP in IPv6, the UDP checksum MUST be processed as specified in > [RFC768] and [RFC2460] for both transmit and receive. > > When UDP is used over IPv6, the UDP checksum is relied upon to > protect both the IPv6 and UDP headers from corruption. As such, A > default GRE-in-UDP Tunnel MUST perform UDP checksum; A TMCE GRE-in- > UDP Tunnel MAY be configured with the UDP zero-checksum mode if the > traffic-managed controlled environment or a set of closely > cooperating traffic-managed controlled environments (such as by > network operators who have agreed to work together in order to > jointly provide specific services) meet at least one of following > conditions: > > a. It is known (perhaps through knowledge of equipment types and > lower layer checks) that packet corruption is exceptionally > unlikely and where the operator is willing to take the risk of > undetected packet corruption. > > b. It is judged through observational measurements (perhaps of > historic or current traffic flows that use a non-zero checksum) > that the level of packet corruption is tolerably low and where > the operator is willing to take the risk of undetected packet > corruption. > > > > > > Yong, Crabber, Xu, Herbert [Page 13] > -------------------------------------------------------------------------= ------- > > Internet-Draft GRE-in-UDP Encapsulation March 2016 > > c. Carrying applications that are tolerant of mis-delivered or > corrupted packets (perhaps through higher layer checksum, > validation, and retransmission or transmission redundancy) where > the operator is willing to rely on the applications using the > tunnel to survive any corrupt packets. > > The following requirements apply to a TMCE GRE-in-UDP tunnel that > use UDP zero-checksum mode: > > a. Use of the UDP checksum with IPv6 MUST be the default > configuration of all GRE-in-UDP tunnels. > > b. The GRE-in-UDP tunnel implementation MUST comply with all > requirements specified in Section 4 of [RFC6936] and with > requirement 1 specified in Section 5 of [RFC6936]. > > c. The tunnel decapsulator SHOULD only allow the use of UDP zero- > checksum mode for IPv6 on a single received UDP Destination > Port regardless of the encapsulator. The motivation for this > requirement is possible corruption of the UDP Destination Port, > which may cause packet delivery to the wrong UDP port. If that > other UDP port requires the UDP checksum, the mis-delivered > packet will be discarded. > > d. It is RECOMMENDED that the UDP zero-checksum mode for IPv6 is > only enabled for certain selected source addresses. The tunnel > decapsulator MUST check that the source and destination IPv6 > addresses are valid for the GRE-in-UDP tunnel on which the > packet was received if that tunnel uses UDP zero-checksum mode > and discard any packet for which this check fails. > > e. The tunnel encapsulator SHOULD use different IPv6 addresses for > each GRE-in-UDP tunnel that uses UDP zero-checksum mode > regardless of the decapsulator in order to strengthen the > decapsulator's check of the IPv6 source address (i.e., the same > IPv6 source address SHOULD NOT be used with more than one IPv6 > destination address, independent of whether that destination > address is a unicast or multicast address). When this is not > possible, it is RECOMMENDED to use each source IPv6 address for > as few UDP zero-checksum mode GRE-in-UDP tunnels as is feasible. > > f. When any middlebox exists on the path of a GRE-in-UDP tunnel, > it is RECOMMENDED to use the default mode, i.e. use UDP > checksum, to reduce the chance that the encapsulated packets to > be dropped. > > > > > > Yong, Crabber, Xu, Herbert [Page 14] > -------------------------------------------------------------------------= ------- > > Internet-Draft GRE-in-UDP Encapsulation March 2016 > > g. Any middlebox that allows the UDP zero-checksum mode for IPv6 > MUST comply with requirement 1 and 8-10 in Section 5 of > [RFC6936]. > > h. Measures SHOULD be taken to prevent IPv6 traffic with zero UDP > checksums from "escaping" to the general Internet; see Section > 8 for examples of such measures. > > i. IPv6 traffic with zero UDP checksums MUST be actively monitored > for errors by the network operator. For example, the operator > may monitor Ethernet layer packet error rates. > > j. If a packet with a non-zero checksum is received, the checksum > MUST be verified before accepting the packet. This is > regardless of whether the tunnel encapsulator and decapsulator > have been configured with UDP zero-checksum mode. > > The above requirements do not change either the requirements > specified in [RFC2460] as modified by [RFC6935] or the requirements > specified in [RFC6936]. > > The requirement to check the source IPv6 address in addition to the > destination IPv6 address, plus the strong recommendation against > reuse of source IPv6 addresses among GRE-in-UDP tunnels collectively > provide some mitigation for the absence of UDP checksum coverage of > the IPv6 header. A traffic-managed controlled environment that > satisfies at least one of three conditions listed above in this > section provides additional assurance. > > A GRE-in-UDP tunnel is suitable for transmission over lower layers > in the traffic-managed controlled environments that are allowed by > the exceptions stated above and the rate of corruption of the inner > IP packet on such networks is not expected to increase by comparison > to GRE traffic that is not encapsulated in UDP. For these reasons, > GRE-in-UDP does not provide an additional integrity check except > when GRE checksum is used when UDP zero-checksum mode is used with > IPv6, and this design is in accordance with requirements 2, 3 and 5 > specified in Section 5 of [RFC6936]. > > Generic Router Encapsulation (GRE) does not accumulate incorrect > state as a consequence of GRE header corruption. A corrupt GRE > packet may result in either packet discard or forwarding of the > packet without accumulation of GRE state. Active monitoring of GRE- > in-UDP traffic for errors is REQUIRED as occurrence of errors will > result in some accumulation of error information outside the > protocol for operational and management purposes. This design is in > accordance with requirement 4 specified in Section 5 of [RFC6936]. > > > > Yong, Crabber, Xu, Herbert [Page 15] > -------------------------------------------------------------------------= ------- > > Internet-Draft GRE-in-UDP Encapsulation March 2016 > > The remaining requirements specified in Section 5 of [RFC6936] are > not applicable to GRE-in-UDP. Requirements 6 and 7 do not apply > because GRE does not include a control feedback mechanism. > Requirements 8-10 are middlebox requirements that do not apply to > GRE-in-UDP tunnel endpoints (see Section 7.1 for further middlebox > discussion). > > It is worth mentioning that the use of a zero UDP checksum should > present the equivalent risk of undetected packet corruption when > sending similar packet using GRE-in-IPv6 without UDP [RFC7676] and > without GRE checksums. > > In summary, a TMCE GRE-in-UDP Tunnel is allowed to use UDP-zero- > checksum mode for IPv6 when the conditions and requirements stated > above are met. Otherwise the UDP checksum need to be used for IPv6 > as specified in [RFC768] and [RFC2460]. Use of GRE checksum is > RECOMMENED when the UDP checksum is not used. > " > > In GUE, to support UDP-checksum-zero, it said > > " Therefore, when GUE is used over > IPv6, either the UDP checksum must be enabled or the GUE header > checksum must be used. An encapsulator MAY set a zero UDP checksum > for performance or implementation reasons, in which case the GUE > header checksum MUST be used or applicable requirements for using > zero UDP checksums in [GREUDP] MUST be met. If the UDP checksum is > enabled, then the GUE header checksum should not be used since it is > mostly redundant." > > It's easy for me to add the similar words to the IP-in-UDP draft like "th= e > applicable requirements for using zero UDP checksum in [GREUDP] MUST be > met when zero UDP checksum is used by the tunnel ingress". However, the > major goal for disabling the UDP checksum is to improve the performance. > When GUE header checksum is used and/or the bunch of applicable > requirements as described in GRE/UDP are verified, is the goal of improvi= ng > performance still achievable? If not, why not directly enable the UDP-che= cksum > instead? > > - fragmentation support > > In GRE/UDP, it said > > " 4.1. MTU and Fragmentation > > Regarding packet fragmentation, an encapsulator/decapsulator SHOULD > be compliant with [RFC7588] and perform fragmentation before the > encapsulation. The size of fragments SHOULD be less or equal to the > PMTU associated with the path between the GRE ingress and the GRE > egress tunnel endpoints minus the GRE and UDP overhead ..." > > in GUE, it said > > " 4.9. MTU and fragmentation > > Standard conventions for handling of MTU (Maximum Transmission Unit) > and fragmentation in conjunction with networking tunnels > (encapsulation of layer 2 or layer 3 packets) should be followed. > Details are described in MTU and Fragmentation Issues with In-the- > Network Tunneling [RFC4459]... " > > It seems that the only missing thing in the IP-in-UDP draft is to allow t= he outer > fragmentation. However, as it said in > (https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-intarea-tunnels-02#page-13), " ..= .IPsec > performs only Outer Fragmentation; this distinguishes it from IP-in-IP, w= hich > performs only Inner Fragmentation. " Note that IP-in-IP is the dominant > encapsulation choice within Softwires networks. In other words, performin= g > only inner fragmentation works very well in practice. Furthermore, the ou= ter > fragmentation issue (e.g., reassembly cost for the egress) would become e= ven > worse since the fragments of X-in-UDP packets are more likely to be forwa= rded > across different paths than those of X-in-IP and X-in-GRE packets. Hence,= I'm > wondering whether it's worthwhile to support the outer fragmentation on U= DP > encapsulated packets which seems useless in practice. > > - signalling support (e.g., to test whether a tunnel is up or > to measure MTUs) > > I haven't found any description of this in both GRE/UDP and GUE. Did you? > > - support for robust ID fields (related to fragmentation, > e.g., to overcome the limits of IPv4 ID as per RFC 6864) > > I haven't found any description of this in both GRE/UDP and GUE. Did you? > > Xiaohu > > > It is not our obligation to find a way for your document to proceed - > > that onus is on you. > > > > Joe --_000_D382FCD56783Csadikshiciscocom_ Content-Type: text/html; charset="us-ascii" Content-ID: <04F0D63D812CC047A453F2C38A078610@emea.cisco.com> Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
In case of typical datacenter brownfield deployments, 
the underlay and overlay may be completely disconnected operationally,=  
hence there can be cases where the mtu mismatch in underlay network ma= y not
be notified to overlay endpoints and subsequently to end hosts.

From: Lloyd Wood <lloyd.wood@yahoo.co.uk>
Date: Sunday, June 12, 2016 at 10:4= 1 AM
To: Softwires WG <softwires@ietf.org>, "int-area@ietf.org" <int-area@ietf.org>, "lisp@ietf.org" <lisp@ietf.org>, "tsvwg@ietf.org" <tsvwg@ietf.org>, Xuxiaohu <xuxiaohu@huawei.com>, "nvo3@ietf.org" <nvo3@ietf.org>
Subject: Re: [nvo3] [tsvwg] Is it f= easible to perform fragmentation on UDP encapsulated packets.

Fragment= ation should be strongly discouraged.

if you've designed a tunnelling solution and you have fragmentation ha= ppening as a matter of course, you've designed it wrong. 

Lloyd Wood
lloyd.wood@yahoo.co.uk

On Friday, May 27, 2016, 8:10 PM, Xuxiaohu <xuxiaohu@huawei.com> wrote:

<Note that I have changed the subject of the email hence it has nothing = to do with the WG adoption call now. It's just a discussion on a particular= issue which is related to those WGs which are working on UDP tunnels. The = reason for containing the old email is to use it as a background which may be useful for better understanding = of this particular issue>

The possible side-effect of performing fragmentation on UDP encapsulated pa= ckets is to worsen the reassembly burden on tunnel egress since fragments o= f UDP encapsulated packets are more likely to be forwarded across different= paths towards the tunnel egress than those of IP or GRE encapsulated packets.

It seems that most X-over-UDP proposals choose to prohibit the tunnel ingre= ss from performing fragmentation on UDP encapsulated packets. See the follo= wing quoted text regarding fragmentation from those X-over-UDP drafts:

LISP:

When an ITR receives a packet from a site-facing interface and adds H
  octets worth of encapsulation to yield a packet size greater than L<= br>   octets, it resolves the MTU issue by first splitting the original   packet into 2 equal-sized fragments.  A LISP header is then pre= pended
  to each fragment.

VXLAN:

VTEPs MUST NOT fragment VXLAN packets.  Intermediate routers may
  fragment encapsulated VXLAN packets due to the larger frame size.   The destination VTEP MAY silently discard such VXLAN fragments.

VXLAN-GPE:

VTEPs MUST never fragment an encapsulated VXLAN GPE packet, and when
  the outer IP header is IPv4, VTEPs MUST set the DF bit in the outer<= br>   IPv4 header.

GEVENE:

  To prevent fragmentation and maximize performance, the best practice=
  when using Geneve is to ensure that the MTU of the physical network<= br>   is greater than or equal to the MTU of the encapsulated network plus=
  tunnel headers.

GUE:

    If a packet is fragmented before encapsulation in GUE, all th= e
    related fragments must be encapsulated using the same source = port
    (inner flow identifier). An operator may set MTU to account f= or
    encapsulation overhead and reduce the likelihood of fragmenta= tion.

GRE/UDP

Regarding packet fragmentation, an encapsulator/decapsulator SHOULD
  be compliant with [RFC7588] and perform fragmentation before the
  encapsulation.

However, the above choice seems conflict with the requirements as described= in https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-intarea-tunnels-02


I wonder whether the IETF should reach a consensus on whether or not the fr= agmentation on UDP encapsulated packets should be allowed.
 
Best regards,
Xiaohu

> -----Original Message-----
> From: Xuxiaohu
> Sent: Thursday, May 26, 2016 4:35 PM
> To: 'Joe Touch'; Fred Baker (fred); Wassim Haddad
> Cc: int-area@ietf.org
> Subject: RE: [Int-area] Call for adoption of draft-xu-intarea-ip-in-ud= p-03
>
>
>
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: Joe Touch [mailto:touch@isi.edu]
> > Sent: Thursday, May 26, 2016 2:11 AM
> > To: Xuxiaohu; Fred Baker (fred); Wassim Haddad
> > Cc: int-area@ietf.org
> > Subject: Re: [Int-area] Call for adoption of
> > draft-xu-intarea-ip-in-udp-03
> >
> >
> >
> > On 5/24/2016 7:24 PM, Xuxiaohu wrote:
> > > Hi Joe,
> > >
> > > I wonder whether you want to tell me the following truth by = the
> > > example that you gave: no matter whatever improvements we ha= d done
> > > with this draft, those persons who dislike it by the light o= f nature
> > > would dislike it in the end.
> >
> > The only improvements that would make this doc useful would be to= add
> > capabilities already in GRE/UDP or GUE/UDP, which we already have= .
>
> Let's go over the four things you mentioned earlier in GRE/UDP and GUE= /UDP:
>
>     - stronger checksums
>
> In GRE/UDP, in order to use UDP-zero-checksum, it gave the following > restrictions:
> " 6. UDP Checksum Handling
>
>    6.1. UDP Checksum with IPv4
>
>    For UDP in IPv4, the UDP checksum MUST be processed as sp= ecified in
>    [RFC768] and [RFC1122] for both transmit and receive. The= IPv4
>
>
>
> Yong, Crabber, Xu, Herbert            &n= bsp;                     =   [Page 12]
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------= ----------
>
> Internet-Draft          GRE-in-UDP Encapsulat= ion            March 2016
>
>    header includes a checksum which protects against mis-del= ivery of
>    the packet due to corruption of IP addresses. The UDP che= cksum
>    potentially provides protection against corruption of the= UDP header,
>    GRE header, and GRE payload. Disabling the use of checksu= ms is a
>    deployment consideration that should take into account th= e risk and
>    effects of packet corruption.
>
>    When a decapsulator receives a packet, the UDP checksum f= ield MUST
>    be processed. If the UDP checksum is non-zero, the decaps= ulator MUST
>    verify the checksum before accepting the packet. By defau= lt a
>    decapsulator SHOULD accept UDP packets with a zero checks= um. A node
>    MAY be configured to disallow zero checksums per [RFC1122= ]; this may
>    be done selectively, for instance disallowing zero checks= ums from
>    certain hosts that are known to be sending over paths sub= ject to
>    packet corruption. If verification of a non-zero checksum= fails, a
>    decapsulator lacks the capability to verify a non-zero ch= ecksum, or
>    a packet with a zero-checksum was received and the decaps= ulator is
>    configured to disallow, the packet MUST be dropped and an= event MAY
>    be logged.
>
>    6.2. UDP Checksum with IPv6
>
>    For UDP in IPv6, the UDP checksum MUST be processed as sp= ecified in
>    [RFC768] and [RFC2460] for both transmit and receive.
>
>    When UDP is used over IPv6, the UDP checksum is relied up= on to
>    protect both the IPv6 and UDP headers from corruption. As= such, A
>    default GRE-in-UDP Tunnel MUST perform UDP checksum; A TM= CE GRE-in-
>    UDP Tunnel MAY be configured with the UDP zero-checksum m= ode if the
>    traffic-managed controlled environment or a set of closel= y
>    cooperating traffic-managed controlled environments (such= as by
>    network operators who have agreed to work together in ord= er to
>    jointly provide specific services) meet at least one of f= ollowing
>    conditions:
>
>    a. It is known (perhaps through knowledge of equipment ty= pes and
>      lower layer checks) that packet corruption is exce= ptionally
>      unlikely and where the operator is willing to take= the risk of
>      undetected packet corruption.
>
>    b. It is judged through observational measurements (perha= ps of
>      historic or current traffic flows that use a non-z= ero checksum)
>      that the level of packet corruption is tolerably l= ow and where
>      the operator is willing to take the risk of undete= cted packet
>      corruption.
>
>
>
>
>
> Yong, Crabber, Xu, Herbert            &n= bsp;                     =   [Page 13]
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------= ----------
>
> Internet-Draft          GRE-in-UDP Encapsulat= ion            March 2016
>
>    c. Carrying applications that are tolerant of mis-deliver= ed or
>      corrupted packets (perhaps through higher layer ch= ecksum,
>      validation, and retransmission or transmission red= undancy) where
>      the operator is willing to rely on the application= s using the
>      tunnel to survive any corrupt packets.
>
>    The following requirements apply to a TMCE GRE-in-UDP tun= nel that
>    use UDP zero-checksum mode:
>
>      a. Use of the UDP checksum with IPv6 MUST be the d= efault
>        configuration of all GRE-in-UDP tunnels. >
>      b. The GRE-in-UDP tunnel implementation MUST compl= y with all
>        requirements specified in Section 4 of [RFC= 6936] and with
>        requirement 1 specified in Section 5 of [RF= C6936].
>
>      c. The tunnel decapsulator SHOULD only allow the u= se of UDP zero-
>        checksum mode for IPv6 on a single received= UDP Destination
>        Port regardless of the encapsulator. The mo= tivation for this
>        requirement is possible corruption of the U= DP Destination Port,
>        which may cause packet delivery to the wron= g UDP port. If that
>        other UDP port requires the UDP checksum, t= he mis-delivered
>        packet will be discarded.
>
>      d. It is RECOMMENDED that the UDP zero-checksum mo= de for IPv6 is
>        only enabled for certain selected source ad= dresses. The tunnel
>        decapsulator MUST check that the source and= destination IPv6
>        addresses are valid for the GRE-in-UDP tunn= el on which the
>        packet was received if that tunnel uses UDP= zero-checksum mode
>        and discard any packet for which this check= fails.
>
>      e. The tunnel encapsulator SHOULD use different IP= v6 addresses for
>        each GRE-in-UDP tunnel that uses UDP zero-c= hecksum mode
>        regardless of the decapsulator in order to = strengthen the
>        decapsulator's check of the IPv6 source add= ress (i.e., the same
>        IPv6 source address SHOULD NOT be used with= more than one IPv6
>        destination address, independent of whether= that destination
>        address is a unicast or multicast address).= When this is not
>        possible, it is RECOMMENDED to use each sou= rce IPv6 address for
>        as few UDP zero-checksum mode GRE-in-UDP tu= nnels as is feasible.
>
>      f. When any middlebox exists on the path of a GRE-= in-UDP tunnel,
>        it is RECOMMENDED to use the default mode, = i.e. use UDP
>        checksum, to reduce the chance that the enc= apsulated packets to
>        be dropped.
>
>
>
>
>
> Yong, Crabber, Xu, Herbert            &n= bsp;                     =   [Page 14]
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------= ----------
>
> Internet-Draft          GRE-in-UDP Encapsulat= ion            March 2016
>
>      g. Any middlebox that allows the UDP zero-checksum= mode for IPv6
>        MUST comply with requirement 1 and 8-10 in = Section 5 of
>        [RFC6936].
>
>      h. Measures SHOULD be taken to prevent IPv6 traffi= c with zero UDP
>        checksums from "escaping" to the = general Internet; see Section
>        8 for examples of such measures.
>
>      i. IPv6 traffic with zero UDP checksums MUST be ac= tively monitored
>        for errors by the network operator. For exa= mple, the operator
>        may monitor Ethernet layer packet error rat= es.
>
>      j. If a packet with a non-zero checksum is receive= d, the checksum
>        MUST be verified before accepting the packe= t. This is
>        regardless of whether the tunnel encapsulat= or and decapsulator
>        have been configured with UDP zero-checksum= mode.
>
>    The above requirements do not change either the requireme= nts
>    specified in [RFC2460] as modified by [RFC6935] or the re= quirements
>    specified in [RFC6936].
>
>    The requirement to check the source IPv6 address in addit= ion to the
>    destination IPv6 address, plus the strong recommendation = against
>    reuse of source IPv6 addresses among GRE-in-UDP tunnels c= ollectively
>    provide some mitigation for the absence of UDP checksum c= overage of
>    the IPv6 header. A traffic-managed controlled environment= that
>    satisfies at least one of three conditions listed above i= n this
>    section provides additional assurance.
>
>    A GRE-in-UDP tunnel is suitable for transmission over low= er layers
>    in the traffic-managed controlled environments that are a= llowed by
>    the exceptions stated above and the rate of corruption of= the inner
>    IP packet on such networks is not expected to increase by= comparison
>    to GRE traffic that is not encapsulated in UDP.  For= these reasons,
>    GRE-in-UDP does not provide an additional integrity check= except
>    when GRE checksum is used when UDP zero-checksum mode is = used with
>    IPv6, and this design is in accordance with requirements = 2, 3 and 5
>    specified in Section 5 of [RFC6936].
>
>    Generic Router Encapsulation (GRE) does not accumulate in= correct
>    state as a consequence of GRE header corruption. A corrup= t GRE
>    packet may result in either packet discard or forwarding = of the
>    packet without accumulation of GRE state. Active monitori= ng of GRE-
>    in-UDP traffic for errors is REQUIRED as occurrence of er= rors will
>    result in some accumulation of error information outside = the
>    protocol for operational and management purposes. This de= sign is in
>    accordance with requirement 4 specified in Section 5 of [= RFC6936].
>
>
>
> Yong, Crabber, Xu, Herbert            &n= bsp;                     =   [Page 15]
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------= ----------
>
> Internet-Draft          GRE-in-UDP Encapsulat= ion            March 2016
>
>    The remaining requirements specified in Section 5 of [RFC= 6936] are
>    not applicable to GRE-in-UDP.  Requirements 6 and 7 = do not apply
>    because GRE does not include a control feedback mechanism= .
>    Requirements 8-10 are middlebox requirements that do not = apply to
>    GRE-in-UDP tunnel endpoints (see Section 7.1 for further = middlebox
>    discussion).
>
>    It is worth mentioning that the use of a zero UDP checksu= m should
>    present the equivalent risk of undetected packet corrupti= on when
>    sending similar packet using GRE-in-IPv6 without UDP [RFC= 7676] and
>    without GRE checksums.
>
>    In summary, a TMCE GRE-in-UDP Tunnel is allowed to use UD= P-zero-
>    checksum mode for IPv6 when the conditions and requiremen= ts stated
>    above are met. Otherwise the UDP checksum need to be used= for IPv6
>    as specified in [RFC768] and [RFC2460]. Use of GRE checks= um is
>    RECOMMENED when the UDP checksum is not used.
> "
>
> In GUE, to support UDP-checksum-zero, it said
>
> " Therefore, when GUE is used over
>    IPv6, either the UDP checksum must be enabled or the GUE = header
>    checksum must be used.  An encapsulator MAY set a ze= ro UDP checksum
>    for performance or implementation reasons, in which case = the GUE
>    header checksum MUST be used or applicable requirements f= or using
>    zero UDP checksums in [GREUDP] MUST be met. If the UDP ch= ecksum is
>    enabled, then the GUE header checksum should not be used = since it is
>    mostly redundant."
>
> It's easy for me to add the similar words to the IP-in-UDP draft like = "the
> applicable requirements for using zero UDP checksum in [GREUDP] MUST b= e
> met when zero UDP checksum is used by the tunnel ingress". Howeve= r, the
> major goal for disabling the UDP checksum is to improve the performanc= e.
> When GUE header checksum is used and/or the bunch of applicable
> requirements as described in GRE/UDP are verified, is the goal of impr= oving
> performance still achievable? If not, why not directly enable the UDP-= checksum
> instead?
>
>     - fragmentation support
>
> In GRE/UDP, it said
>
> " 4.1. MTU and Fragmentation
>
>    Regarding packet fragmentation, an encapsulator/decapsula= tor SHOULD
>    be compliant with [RFC7588] and perform fragmentation bef= ore the
>    encapsulation. The size of fragments SHOULD be less or eq= ual to the
>    PMTU associated with the path between the GRE ingress and= the GRE
>    egress tunnel endpoints minus the GRE and UDP overhead ..= ."
>
> in GUE, it said
>
> " 4.9. MTU and fragmentation
>
>    Standard conventions for handling of MTU (Maximum Transmi= ssion Unit)
>    and fragmentation in conjunction with networking tunnels<= br> >    (encapsulation of layer 2 or layer 3 packets) should be f= ollowed.
>    Details are described in MTU and Fragmentation Issues wit= h In-the-
>    Network Tunneling [RFC4459]... "
>
> It seems that the only missing thing in the IP-in-UDP draft is to allo= w the outer
> fragmentation. However, as it said in
> (https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-intarea-t= unnels-02#page-13), " ...IPsec
> performs only Outer Fragmentation; this distinguishes it from IP-in-IP= , which
> performs only Inner Fragmentation. " Note that IP-in-IP is the do= minant
> encapsulation choice within Softwires networks. In other words, perfor= ming
> only inner fragmentation works very well in practice. Furthermore, the= outer
> fragmentation issue (e.g., reassembly cost for the egress) would becom= e even
> worse since the fragments of X-in-UDP packets are more likely to be fo= rwarded
> across different paths than those of X-in-IP and X-in-GRE packets. Hen= ce, I'm
> wondering whether it's worthwhile to support the outer fragmentation o= n UDP
> encapsulated packets which seems useless in practice.
>
>     - signalling support (e.g., to test whether a tunne= l is up or
>     to measure MTUs)
>
> I haven't found any description of this in both GRE/UDP and GUE. Did y= ou?
>
>     - support for robust ID fields (related to fragment= ation,
>     e.g., to overcome the limits of IPv4 ID as per RFC = 6864)
>
> I haven't found any description of this in both GRE/UDP and GUE. Did y= ou?
>
> Xiaohu
>
> > It is not our obligation to find a way for your document to proce= ed -
> > that onus is on you.
> >
> > Joe
--_000_D382FCD56783Csadikshiciscocom_-- From nobody Mon Jun 13 09:29:25 2016 Return-Path: X-Original-To: lisp@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: lisp@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id B5F9312D87B for ; Mon, 13 Jun 2016 09:29:12 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.6 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.6 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW=-0.7] autolearn=unavailable autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=herbertland-com.20150623.gappssmtp.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id PfqxqFHyabCs for ; Mon, 13 Jun 2016 09:29:10 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail-it0-x232.google.com (mail-it0-x232.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:4001:c0b::232]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 0806612D5AF for ; Mon, 13 Jun 2016 09:29:07 -0700 (PDT) Received: by mail-it0-x232.google.com with SMTP id z189so53894991itg.0 for ; Mon, 13 Jun 2016 09:29:06 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=herbertland-com.20150623.gappssmtp.com; s=20150623; h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:date:message-id:subject:from:to :cc; bh=du4m1CiAht/rWn4Pu541Szj3Q9nuu59Dq4Mqrbk8uQE=; b=bJbvuLN8iv02D9MyVIThRticmNUVLQpNOCfGrMOvmgUzjeD5sK5T2eRSUE8K1rl1Uu RWC1v3P8Jj5DUAN4PuDTHx4eNiwO0NT8A/OmyBAH+6nMdAgn1GagGhJrmN5z1XN+68he 6fQHMHth/W0He/YSnWWF7Z0kPhIqMlGfZIP/fBW8ebsn1qZ0S5ELgvc6bTx1aV6UTbnp 1YTmVryS1b0ut8XkYeY1SRAJ/I/npqNZlBJ7kcmvSkBOW0/FrkzsJDIiNETVEXpv9tX6 klra8rK7AaiyKcjYH5r0ASt1woSosj1t7vgSIlTDK5FyhfsoFB1BUrUsm7ojLJAhKozl Btww== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20130820; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:in-reply-to:references:date :message-id:subject:from:to:cc; bh=du4m1CiAht/rWn4Pu541Szj3Q9nuu59Dq4Mqrbk8uQE=; b=lyVhiuN6E9Ealxkdfl6Ulg0LqTCfQajcnFUPBzpPSIkWPimSVd9q/4StvYd1xQJ/Di 9dUHatsct/fD34SBIlSfXqfdZoKQPr5f0jx6ZCpG5pu6+Po54CHrhipiN0EMGZDmvtg5 nsQAlp5mDIIDFr3njJTdV3rasemiTuyZPUpipds600vrA7bwkfrz+CsRdDzccMutOxp8 hBxbGnFAhL8WT9SWfa7VINPuxnyBo/38/y3e9W92LFnvMcHNrKvCKXdMFrcVPEEhHoxH emMs4+W+AP32QeScuwYoIpA+FqxPv6d7jkZB5bhGaqcb3ByHF9CKlZY9mpoMkGqyTQnU LFzw== X-Gm-Message-State: ALyK8tKTECuKSMXPbvhr2OVBxWPCiXMGLhPvWF5qdaazPccG46ZWhQZ0PT5CuCITr6UtaldMo2PSQMu0ayz8Tg== MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Received: by 10.36.73.219 with SMTP id e88mr841383itd.88.1465835346137; Mon, 13 Jun 2016 09:29:06 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.107.31.202 with HTTP; Mon, 13 Jun 2016 09:29:05 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: <974977917.2492241.1465708308527.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> References: <573E2A0E.1060609@isi.edu> <1FEE3F8F5CCDE64C9A8E8F4AD27C19EE0D54EB60@NKGEML515-MBX.china.huawei.com> <573F453C.5060908@isi.edu> <1FEE3F8F5CCDE64C9A8E8F4AD27C19EE0D554B73@NKGEML515-MBS.china.huawei.com> <5743303C.5040109@isi.edu> <1FEE3F8F5CCDE64C9A8E8F4AD27C19EE0D55514C@NKGEML515-MBS.china.huawei.com> <5743DD16.3050506@isi.edu> <1FEE3F8F5CCDE64C9A8E8F4AD27C19EE0D555482@NKGEML515-MBS.china.huawei.com> <57448C14.2060203@isi.edu> <1FEE3F8F5CCDE64C9A8E8F4AD27C19EE0D5557DE@NKGEML515-MBS.china.huawei.com> <9c462520-eb8e-fcd0-0a08-228f80fbc779@isi.edu> <1FEE3F8F5CCDE64C9A8E8F4AD27C19EE0D5596E0@NKGEML515-MBS.china.huawei.com> <974977917.2492241.1465708308527.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> Date: Mon, 13 Jun 2016 09:29:05 -0700 Message-ID: From: Tom Herbert To: Lloyd Wood Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Archived-At: Cc: "int-area@ietf.org" , "lisp@ietf.org" , "nvo3@ietf.org" , Softwires WG , Xuxiaohu , "tsvwg@ietf.org" Subject: Re: [lisp] [tsvwg] Is it feasible to perform fragmentation on UDP encapsulated packets. X-BeenThere: lisp@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.17 Precedence: list List-Id: List for the discussion of the Locator/ID Separation Protocol List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 13 Jun 2016 16:29:13 -0000 On Sat, Jun 11, 2016 at 10:11 PM, Lloyd Wood wrote: > Fragmentation should be strongly discouraged. > > if you've designed a tunnelling solution and you have fragmentation > happening as a matter of course, you've designed it wrong. > As mentioned before we do not always have control of the underlay MTUs to be able to set Jumbo Frames to make MTU larger than 1500 to account for tunnel fragmentation. At Facebook for instance, we run IP tunnels between L4 load balancers and backend servers. In certain POPs we cannot get more than 1500 MTU in the path. The ingress MTU into the load balancer is 1500 so it is possible to receive packets from the Internet that are greater than the tunnel MTU. In this case we will fragment. Since the tunnel is behind a firewall and our devices and the path from load balancers to backends is low loss there is little concern of being DOSed. Tom > Lloyd Wood > lloyd.wood@yahoo.co.uk > > On Friday, May 27, 2016, 8:10 PM, Xuxiaohu wrote: > > do with the WG adoption call now. It's just a discussion on a particular > issue which is related to those WGs which are working on UDP tunnels. The > reason for containing the old email is to use it as a background which may > be useful for better understanding of this particular issue> > > The possible side-effect of performing fragmentation on UDP encapsulated > packets is to worsen the reassembly burden on tunnel egress since fragments > of UDP encapsulated packets are more likely to be forwarded across different > paths towards the tunnel egress than those of IP or GRE encapsulated > packets. > > It seems that most X-over-UDP proposals choose to prohibit the tunnel > ingress from performing fragmentation on UDP encapsulated packets. See the > following quoted text regarding fragmentation from those X-over-UDP drafts: > > LISP: > > When an ITR receives a packet from a site-facing interface and adds H > octets worth of encapsulation to yield a packet size greater than L > octets, it resolves the MTU issue by first splitting the original > packet into 2 equal-sized fragments. A LISP header is then prepended > to each fragment. > > VXLAN: > > VTEPs MUST NOT fragment VXLAN packets. Intermediate routers may > fragment encapsulated VXLAN packets due to the larger frame size. > The destination VTEP MAY silently discard such VXLAN fragments. > > VXLAN-GPE: > > VTEPs MUST never fragment an encapsulated VXLAN GPE packet, and when > the outer IP header is IPv4, VTEPs MUST set the DF bit in the outer > IPv4 header. > > GEVENE: > > To prevent fragmentation and maximize performance, the best practice > when using Geneve is to ensure that the MTU of the physical network > is greater than or equal to the MTU of the encapsulated network plus > tunnel headers. > > GUE: > > If a packet is fragmented before encapsulation in GUE, all the > related fragments must be encapsulated using the same source port > (inner flow identifier). An operator may set MTU to account for > encapsulation overhead and reduce the likelihood of fragmentation. > > GRE/UDP > > Regarding packet fragmentation, an encapsulator/decapsulator SHOULD > be compliant with [RFC7588] and perform fragmentation before the > encapsulation. > > However, the above choice seems conflict with the requirements as described > in https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-intarea-tunnels-02 > > > I wonder whether the IETF should reach a consensus on whether or not the > fragmentation on UDP encapsulated packets should be allowed. > > Best regards, > Xiaohu > >> -----Original Message----- >> From: Xuxiaohu >> Sent: Thursday, May 26, 2016 4:35 PM >> To: 'Joe Touch'; Fred Baker (fred); Wassim Haddad >> Cc: int-area@ietf.org >> Subject: RE: [Int-area] Call for adoption of draft-xu-intarea-ip-in-udp-03 >> >> >> >> > -----Original Message----- >> > From: Joe Touch [mailto:touch@isi.edu] >> > Sent: Thursday, May 26, 2016 2:11 AM >> > To: Xuxiaohu; Fred Baker (fred); Wassim Haddad >> > Cc: int-area@ietf.org >> > Subject: Re: [Int-area] Call for adoption of >> > draft-xu-intarea-ip-in-udp-03 >> > >> > >> > >> > On 5/24/2016 7:24 PM, Xuxiaohu wrote: >> > > Hi Joe, >> > > >> > > I wonder whether you want to tell me the following truth by the >> > > example that you gave: no matter whatever improvements we had done >> > > with this draft, those persons who dislike it by the light of nature >> > > would dislike it in the end. >> > >> > The only improvements that would make this doc useful would be to add >> > capabilities already in GRE/UDP or GUE/UDP, which we already have. >> >> Let's go over the four things you mentioned earlier in GRE/UDP and >> GUE/UDP: >> >> - stronger checksums >> >> In GRE/UDP, in order to use UDP-zero-checksum, it gave the following >> restrictions: >> " 6. UDP Checksum Handling >> >> 6.1. UDP Checksum with IPv4 >> >> For UDP in IPv4, the UDP checksum MUST be processed as specified in >> [RFC768] and [RFC1122] for both transmit and receive. The IPv4 >> >> >> >> Yong, Crabber, Xu, Herbert [Page 12] >> >> -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- >> >> Internet-Draft GRE-in-UDP Encapsulation March 2016 >> >> header includes a checksum which protects against mis-delivery of >> the packet due to corruption of IP addresses. The UDP checksum >> potentially provides protection against corruption of the UDP header, >> GRE header, and GRE payload. Disabling the use of checksums is a >> deployment consideration that should take into account the risk and >> effects of packet corruption. >> >> When a decapsulator receives a packet, the UDP checksum field MUST >> be processed. If the UDP checksum is non-zero, the decapsulator MUST >> verify the checksum before accepting the packet. By default a >> decapsulator SHOULD accept UDP packets with a zero checksum. A node >> MAY be configured to disallow zero checksums per [RFC1122]; this may >> be done selectively, for instance disallowing zero checksums from >> certain hosts that are known to be sending over paths subject to >> packet corruption. If verification of a non-zero checksum fails, a >> decapsulator lacks the capability to verify a non-zero checksum, or >> a packet with a zero-checksum was received and the decapsulator is >> configured to disallow, the packet MUST be dropped and an event MAY >> be logged. >> >> 6.2. UDP Checksum with IPv6 >> >> For UDP in IPv6, the UDP checksum MUST be processed as specified in >> [RFC768] and [RFC2460] for both transmit and receive. >> >> When UDP is used over IPv6, the UDP checksum is relied upon to >> protect both the IPv6 and UDP headers from corruption. As such, A >> default GRE-in-UDP Tunnel MUST perform UDP checksum; A TMCE GRE-in- >> UDP Tunnel MAY be configured with the UDP zero-checksum mode if the >> traffic-managed controlled environment or a set of closely >> cooperating traffic-managed controlled environments (such as by >> network operators who have agreed to work together in order to >> jointly provide specific services) meet at least one of following >> conditions: >> >> a. It is known (perhaps through knowledge of equipment types and >> lower layer checks) that packet corruption is exceptionally >> unlikely and where the operator is willing to take the risk of >> undetected packet corruption. >> >> b. It is judged through observational measurements (perhaps of >> historic or current traffic flows that use a non-zero checksum) >> that the level of packet corruption is tolerably low and where >> the operator is willing to take the risk of undetected packet >> corruption. >> >> >> >> >> >> Yong, Crabber, Xu, Herbert [Page 13] >> >> -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- >> >> Internet-Draft GRE-in-UDP Encapsulation March 2016 >> >> c. Carrying applications that are tolerant of mis-delivered or >> corrupted packets (perhaps through higher layer checksum, >> validation, and retransmission or transmission redundancy) where >> the operator is willing to rely on the applications using the >> tunnel to survive any corrupt packets. >> >> The following requirements apply to a TMCE GRE-in-UDP tunnel that >> use UDP zero-checksum mode: >> >> a. Use of the UDP checksum with IPv6 MUST be the default >> configuration of all GRE-in-UDP tunnels. >> >> b. The GRE-in-UDP tunnel implementation MUST comply with all >> requirements specified in Section 4 of [RFC6936] and with >> requirement 1 specified in Section 5 of [RFC6936]. >> >> c. The tunnel decapsulator SHOULD only allow the use of UDP zero- >> checksum mode for IPv6 on a single received UDP Destination >> Port regardless of the encapsulator. The motivation for this >> requirement is possible corruption of the UDP Destination Port, >> which may cause packet delivery to the wrong UDP port. If that >> other UDP port requires the UDP checksum, the mis-delivered >> packet will be discarded. >> >> d. It is RECOMMENDED that the UDP zero-checksum mode for IPv6 is >> only enabled for certain selected source addresses. The tunnel >> decapsulator MUST check that the source and destination IPv6 >> addresses are valid for the GRE-in-UDP tunnel on which the >> packet was received if that tunnel uses UDP zero-checksum mode >> and discard any packet for which this check fails. >> >> e. The tunnel encapsulator SHOULD use different IPv6 addresses for >> each GRE-in-UDP tunnel that uses UDP zero-checksum mode >> regardless of the decapsulator in order to strengthen the >> decapsulator's check of the IPv6 source address (i.e., the same >> IPv6 source address SHOULD NOT be used with more than one IPv6 >> destination address, independent of whether that destination >> address is a unicast or multicast address). When this is not >> possible, it is RECOMMENDED to use each source IPv6 address for >> as few UDP zero-checksum mode GRE-in-UDP tunnels as is feasible. >> >> f. When any middlebox exists on the path of a GRE-in-UDP tunnel, >> it is RECOMMENDED to use the default mode, i.e. use UDP >> checksum, to reduce the chance that the encapsulated packets to >> be dropped. >> >> >> >> >> >> Yong, Crabber, Xu, Herbert [Page 14] >> >> -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- >> >> Internet-Draft GRE-in-UDP Encapsulation March 2016 >> >> g. Any middlebox that allows the UDP zero-checksum mode for IPv6 >> MUST comply with requirement 1 and 8-10 in Section 5 of >> [RFC6936]. >> >> h. Measures SHOULD be taken to prevent IPv6 traffic with zero UDP >> checksums from "escaping" to the general Internet; see Section >> 8 for examples of such measures. >> >> i. IPv6 traffic with zero UDP checksums MUST be actively monitored >> for errors by the network operator. For example, the operator >> may monitor Ethernet layer packet error rates. >> >> j. If a packet with a non-zero checksum is received, the checksum >> MUST be verified before accepting the packet. This is >> regardless of whether the tunnel encapsulator and decapsulator >> have been configured with UDP zero-checksum mode. >> >> The above requirements do not change either the requirements >> specified in [RFC2460] as modified by [RFC6935] or the requirements >> specified in [RFC6936]. >> >> The requirement to check the source IPv6 address in addition to the >> destination IPv6 address, plus the strong recommendation against >> reuse of source IPv6 addresses among GRE-in-UDP tunnels collectively >> provide some mitigation for the absence of UDP checksum coverage of >> the IPv6 header. A traffic-managed controlled environment that >> satisfies at least one of three conditions listed above in this >> section provides additional assurance. >> >> A GRE-in-UDP tunnel is suitable for transmission over lower layers >> in the traffic-managed controlled environments that are allowed by >> the exceptions stated above and the rate of corruption of the inner >> IP packet on such networks is not expected to increase by comparison >> to GRE traffic that is not encapsulated in UDP. For these reasons, >> GRE-in-UDP does not provide an additional integrity check except >> when GRE checksum is used when UDP zero-checksum mode is used with >> IPv6, and this design is in accordance with requirements 2, 3 and 5 >> specified in Section 5 of [RFC6936]. >> >> Generic Router Encapsulation (GRE) does not accumulate incorrect >> state as a consequence of GRE header corruption. A corrupt GRE >> packet may result in either packet discard or forwarding of the >> packet without accumulation of GRE state. Active monitoring of GRE- >> in-UDP traffic for errors is REQUIRED as occurrence of errors will >> result in some accumulation of error information outside the >> protocol for operational and management purposes. This design is in >> accordance with requirement 4 specified in Section 5 of [RFC6936]. >> >> >> >> Yong, Crabber, Xu, Herbert [Page 15] >> >> -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- >> >> Internet-Draft GRE-in-UDP Encapsulation March 2016 >> >> The remaining requirements specified in Section 5 of [RFC6936] are >> not applicable to GRE-in-UDP. Requirements 6 and 7 do not apply >> because GRE does not include a control feedback mechanism. >> Requirements 8-10 are middlebox requirements that do not apply to >> GRE-in-UDP tunnel endpoints (see Section 7.1 for further middlebox >> discussion). >> >> It is worth mentioning that the use of a zero UDP checksum should >> present the equivalent risk of undetected packet corruption when >> sending similar packet using GRE-in-IPv6 without UDP [RFC7676] and >> without GRE checksums. >> >> In summary, a TMCE GRE-in-UDP Tunnel is allowed to use UDP-zero- >> checksum mode for IPv6 when the conditions and requirements stated >> above are met. Otherwise the UDP checksum need to be used for IPv6 >> as specified in [RFC768] and [RFC2460]. Use of GRE checksum is >> RECOMMENED when the UDP checksum is not used. >> " >> >> In GUE, to support UDP-checksum-zero, it said >> >> " Therefore, when GUE is used over >> IPv6, either the UDP checksum must be enabled or the GUE header >> checksum must be used. An encapsulator MAY set a zero UDP checksum >> for performance or implementation reasons, in which case the GUE >> header checksum MUST be used or applicable requirements for using >> zero UDP checksums in [GREUDP] MUST be met. If the UDP checksum is >> enabled, then the GUE header checksum should not be used since it is >> mostly redundant." >> >> It's easy for me to add the similar words to the IP-in-UDP draft like "the >> applicable requirements for using zero UDP checksum in [GREUDP] MUST be >> met when zero UDP checksum is used by the tunnel ingress". However, the >> major goal for disabling the UDP checksum is to improve the performance. >> When GUE header checksum is used and/or the bunch of applicable >> requirements as described in GRE/UDP are verified, is the goal of >> improving >> performance still achievable? If not, why not directly enable the >> UDP-checksum >> instead? >> >> - fragmentation support >> >> In GRE/UDP, it said >> >> " 4.1. MTU and Fragmentation >> >> Regarding packet fragmentation, an encapsulator/decapsulator SHOULD >> be compliant with [RFC7588] and perform fragmentation before the >> encapsulation. The size of fragments SHOULD be less or equal to the >> PMTU associated with the path between the GRE ingress and the GRE >> egress tunnel endpoints minus the GRE and UDP overhead ..." >> >> in GUE, it said >> >> " 4.9. MTU and fragmentation >> >> Standard conventions for handling of MTU (Maximum Transmission Unit) >> and fragmentation in conjunction with networking tunnels >> (encapsulation of layer 2 or layer 3 packets) should be followed. >> Details are described in MTU and Fragmentation Issues with In-the- >> Network Tunneling [RFC4459]... " >> >> It seems that the only missing thing in the IP-in-UDP draft is to allow >> the outer >> fragmentation. However, as it said in >> (https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-intarea-tunnels-02#page-13), " >> ...IPsec >> performs only Outer Fragmentation; this distinguishes it from IP-in-IP, >> which >> performs only Inner Fragmentation. " Note that IP-in-IP is the dominant >> encapsulation choice within Softwires networks. In other words, performing >> only inner fragmentation works very well in practice. Furthermore, the >> outer >> fragmentation issue (e.g., reassembly cost for the egress) would become >> even >> worse since the fragments of X-in-UDP packets are more likely to be >> forwarded >> across different paths than those of X-in-IP and X-in-GRE packets. Hence, >> I'm >> wondering whether it's worthwhile to support the outer fragmentation on >> UDP >> encapsulated packets which seems useless in practice. >> >> - signalling support (e.g., to test whether a tunnel is up or >> to measure MTUs) >> >> I haven't found any description of this in both GRE/UDP and GUE. Did you? >> >> - support for robust ID fields (related to fragmentation, >> e.g., to overcome the limits of IPv4 ID as per RFC 6864) >> >> I haven't found any description of this in both GRE/UDP and GUE. Did you? >> >> Xiaohu >> >> > It is not our obligation to find a way for your document to proceed - >> > that onus is on you. >> > >> > Joe From nobody Tue Jun 14 12:24:15 2016 Return-Path: X-Original-To: lisp@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: lisp@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3F6C012D922; Tue, 14 Jun 2016 12:24:10 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -15.947 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-15.947 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_HI=-5, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_H3=-0.01, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_WL=-0.01, RP_MATCHES_RCVD=-1.426, SPF_PASS=-0.001, USER_IN_DEF_DKIM_WL=-7.5] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (1024-bit key) header.d=cisco.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id OEYJSiR87DLe; Tue, 14 Jun 2016 12:24:08 -0700 (PDT) Received: from rcdn-iport-2.cisco.com (rcdn-iport-2.cisco.com [173.37.86.73]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher DHE-RSA-SEED-SHA (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 939BA12D91D; Tue, 14 Jun 2016 12:24:08 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/simple; d=cisco.com; i=@cisco.com; l=2889; q=dns/txt; s=iport; t=1465932248; x=1467141848; h=from:to:cc:subject:date:message-id:references: content-transfer-encoding:mime-version; bh=Ej7MCDqvNpZrYYh6SIokNM0DUc+5BVDIFOFvc4/jJCo=; b=FWY0yoBdv17fe65ZCW94ZClb38ige1q+r4kaNtCEXg6pRhyW/3JnYm1A Ey4AGpYRseZ3we4KGN3a8ocQx9/1AKlZ+kYr2VqFD6hnNrEJKuPYheaqW KQb/+EaB5lhFICVXop/zxX1R9y7VKRij/eh3K5uTTA5ftH7hy7Fnjq5ci 4=; X-IronPort-Anti-Spam-Filtered: true X-IronPort-Anti-Spam-Result: =?us-ascii?q?A0ALAgBSWWBX/4gNJK1dgz5WfQavMolzg?= =?us-ascii?q?g+BeSKFdQKBNDgUAQEBAQEBAWUnhEsBAQEDATo/BQcEAgEIEQQBAR8JByERFAk?= =?us-ascii?q?IAgQOBQiIDgMPCA65Mg2DcwEBAQEBAQEBAQEBAQEBAQEBAQEBARcFhieETYJDg?= =?us-ascii?q?WeFcQWYLzQBhgSGKoFzjymIB4dsAR42ggccgUtuiQl/AQEB?= X-IronPort-AV: E=Sophos;i="5.26,471,1459814400"; d="scan'208";a="117879403" Received: from alln-core-3.cisco.com ([173.36.13.136]) by rcdn-iport-2.cisco.com with ESMTP/TLS/DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA; 14 Jun 2016 19:24:07 +0000 Received: from XCH-ALN-006.cisco.com (xch-aln-006.cisco.com [173.36.7.16]) by alln-core-3.cisco.com (8.14.5/8.14.5) with ESMTP id u5EJO7Px012442 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Tue, 14 Jun 2016 19:24:07 GMT Received: from xch-aln-008.cisco.com (173.36.7.18) by XCH-ALN-006.cisco.com (173.36.7.16) with Microsoft SMTP Server (TLS) id 15.0.1104.5; Tue, 14 Jun 2016 14:24:06 -0500 Received: from xch-aln-008.cisco.com ([173.36.7.18]) by XCH-ALN-008.cisco.com ([173.36.7.18]) with mapi id 15.00.1104.009; Tue, 14 Jun 2016 14:24:06 -0500 From: "Jesus Arango (jearango)" To: Dino Farinacci Thread-Topic: [lisp] [pim] WGLC draft-ietf-pim-join-attributes-for-lisp-03 Thread-Index: AQHRvS/rP5y/rkLukEibTEvdyF5U2p/W6s5wgABzBgCAB8nhcIAKQhBA Date: Tue, 14 Jun 2016 19:24:06 +0000 Message-ID: References: <0FAB6A25-739D-462D-BE0B-7768BCD04753@gmail.com> <76C8DE6E-7E98-45BA-96FC-E25ABFF4EFDE@gmail.com> Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-ms-exchange-transport-fromentityheader: Hosted x-originating-ip: [10.24.122.117] Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable MIME-Version: 1.0 Archived-At: Cc: "lisp@ietf.org" , "pim@ietf.org" , "Stig Venaas \(svenaas\)" Subject: Re: [lisp] [pim] WGLC draft-ietf-pim-join-attributes-for-lisp-03 X-BeenThere: lisp@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.17 Precedence: list List-Id: List for the discussion of the Locator/ID Separation Protocol List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 14 Jun 2016 19:24:10 -0000 FYI, A new version has been uploaded with all the revisions that were brought up= during the last-call. Here is the new version: https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-pim-join-attributes-for-lisp-04 Jesus -----Original Message----- From: Jesus Arango (jearango)=20 Sent: Tuesday, June 7, 2016 11:47 PM To: 'Dino Farinacci' Cc: pim@ietf.org; lisp@ietf.org; Stig Venaas (svenaas) Subject: RE: [lisp] [pim] WGLC draft-ietf-pim-join-attributes-for-lisp-03 FYI, I am collaborating with Dino on his comments. We agreed to do some changes = and are actively working on them. I will share the changes and publish a ne= w draft version once we reach an agreement on the exact wording to use. Thanks Jesus -----Original Message----- From: Dino Farinacci [mailto:farinacci@gmail.com]=20 Sent: Thursday, June 2, 2016 7:47 PM To: Jesus Arango (jearango) Cc: pim@ietf.org; lisp@ietf.org; Stig Venaas (svenaas) Subject: Re: [lisp] [pim] WGLC draft-ietf-pim-join-attributes-for-lisp-03 > I don't think map-notifies are relevant in the context of this draft. Kee= p in mind that this draft is written for "pim-signaled" head-end replicatio= n. In your "signal-free" draft, map-notifies are the correct message becaus= e you are tracking changes in the set of receiver RLOCS and that translates= into changes in the merged RLOC set. In this draft, we are tracking change= s in source EID location and the proper message for that is an SMR. I was thinking of using Map-Notifies in this application not in the signal-= free one.=20 What you do is have the root-xTR register as a receiver-xTR so when a move= occurs the new root-xTR changes which causes the map-server to trigger a M= ap-Notify to each RLOC in the RLIC-set because there was an RLOC-set chang= e.=20 > The receivers do have map-caches. They In this data forwarding direction, this is an ETR. ETRs have database-entri= es which are registered. Used for decapsulation.=20 Mao-caches are used for encapsulation. There is no encapsulation in these r= eceiver-ETRs when data flows from a multicast source to the receivers the r= eceiver-ETR supports.=20 > have a map-cache entry mapping the source EID to the RLOC of the source X= TR. That is a map-cache entry in the root-ITR not in the ETRs.=20 > This is the map-cache entry that we want the SMR to refresh. The creation= of this That is why this is backwards.=20 > map-cache was not triggered by traffic. It was triggered by an RPF lookup= by PIM in the receiver XTR. Understand. But it should be called another data structure. Like an RPF dat= a structure, like a RIB is used in normal native routing.=20 In any event, if you don't clear up this text, it will be hard for anyone t= o understand this.=20 Dino From nobody Tue Jun 14 17:27:05 2016 Return-Path: X-Original-To: lisp@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: lisp@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5ACDC12DA5D; Tue, 14 Jun 2016 17:27:01 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -5.647 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-5.647 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-2.3, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_H3=-0.01, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_WL=-0.01, RP_MATCHES_RCVD=-1.426, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id Cu40wTpUGR2B; Tue, 14 Jun 2016 17:26:59 -0700 (PDT) Received: from lhrrgout.huawei.com (lhrrgout.huawei.com [194.213.3.17]) (using TLSv1 with cipher RC4-SHA (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 50DDA12DA5C; Tue, 14 Jun 2016 17:26:58 -0700 (PDT) Received: from 172.18.7.190 (EHLO lhreml701-cah.china.huawei.com) ([172.18.7.190]) by lhrrg01-dlp.huawei.com (MOS 4.3.7-GA FastPath queued) with ESMTP id CQU93127; Wed, 15 Jun 2016 00:26:56 +0000 (GMT) Received: from DFWEML703-CAH.china.huawei.com (10.193.5.177) by lhreml701-cah.china.huawei.com (10.201.5.93) with Microsoft SMTP Server (TLS) id 14.3.235.1; Wed, 15 Jun 2016 01:26:54 +0100 Received: from DFWEML501-MBX.china.huawei.com ([10.193.5.178]) by DFWEML703-CAH.china.huawei.com ([10.193.5.177]) with mapi id 14.03.0235.001; Tue, 14 Jun 2016 17:26:48 -0700 From: Michael McBride To: "Jesus Arango (jearango)" , Dino Farinacci Thread-Topic: [pim] [lisp] WGLC draft-ietf-pim-join-attributes-for-lisp-03 Thread-Index: AdG9Jym5/S5pdX1PTh6RhuAiNX6jXp/W6s5wgABzBgCAB8nhcIAKQhBAn9Z/asA= Date: Wed, 15 Jun 2016 00:26:47 +0000 Message-ID: <8CCB28152EA2E14A96BBEDC15823481A09E9A57E@dfweml501-mbx> References: <0FAB6A25-739D-462D-BE0B-7768BCD04753@gmail.com> <76C8DE6E-7E98-45BA-96FC-E25ABFF4EFDE@gmail.com> In-Reply-To: Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-originating-ip: [10.47.144.91] Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable MIME-Version: 1.0 X-CFilter-Loop: Reflected X-Mirapoint-Virus-RAPID-Raw: score=unknown(0), refid=str=0001.0A020202.5760A0D0.00CB, ss=1, re=0.000, recu=0.000, reip=0.000, cl=1, cld=1, fgs=0, ip=0.0.0.0, so=2013-06-18 04:22:30, dmn=2013-03-21 17:37:32 X-Mirapoint-Loop-Id: 6ed223868ffd49680c2c2e2e693098a2 Archived-At: Cc: "lisp@ietf.org" , "pim@ietf.org" , "Stig Venaas \(svenaas\)" Subject: Re: [lisp] [pim] WGLC draft-ietf-pim-join-attributes-for-lisp-03 X-BeenThere: lisp@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.17 Precedence: list List-Id: List for the discussion of the Locator/ID Separation Protocol List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 15 Jun 2016 00:27:01 -0000 Hi Jesus, Have all comments (Dino's) been addressed in this rev? If so we will forwar= d the draft to Alvaro (iesg). Otherwise we will wait until everyone is happ= y. thanks, mike -----Original Message----- From: pim [mailto:pim-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of Jesus Arango (jearango= ) Sent: Tuesday, June 14, 2016 12:24 PM To: Dino Farinacci Cc: lisp@ietf.org; pim@ietf.org; Stig Venaas (svenaas) Subject: Re: [pim] [lisp] WGLC draft-ietf-pim-join-attributes-for-lisp-03 FYI, A new version has been uploaded with all the revisions that were brought up= during the last-call. Here is the new version: https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-pim-join-attributes-for-lisp-04 Jesus -----Original Message----- From: Jesus Arango (jearango)=20 Sent: Tuesday, June 7, 2016 11:47 PM To: 'Dino Farinacci' Cc: pim@ietf.org; lisp@ietf.org; Stig Venaas (svenaas) Subject: RE: [lisp] [pim] WGLC draft-ietf-pim-join-attributes-for-lisp-03 FYI, I am collaborating with Dino on his comments. We agreed to do some changes = and are actively working on them. I will share the changes and publish a ne= w draft version once we reach an agreement on the exact wording to use. Thanks Jesus -----Original Message----- From: Dino Farinacci [mailto:farinacci@gmail.com]=20 Sent: Thursday, June 2, 2016 7:47 PM To: Jesus Arango (jearango) Cc: pim@ietf.org; lisp@ietf.org; Stig Venaas (svenaas) Subject: Re: [lisp] [pim] WGLC draft-ietf-pim-join-attributes-for-lisp-03 > I don't think map-notifies are relevant in the context of this draft. Kee= p in mind that this draft is written for "pim-signaled" head-end replicatio= n. In your "signal-free" draft, map-notifies are the correct message becaus= e you are tracking changes in the set of receiver RLOCS and that translates= into changes in the merged RLOC set. In this draft, we are tracking change= s in source EID location and the proper message for that is an SMR. I was thinking of using Map-Notifies in this application not in the signal-= free one.=20 What you do is have the root-xTR register as a receiver-xTR so when a move= occurs the new root-xTR changes which causes the map-server to trigger a M= ap-Notify to each RLOC in the RLIC-set because there was an RLOC-set chang= e.=20 > The receivers do have map-caches. They In this data forwarding direction, this is an ETR. ETRs have database-entri= es which are registered. Used for decapsulation.=20 Mao-caches are used for encapsulation. There is no encapsulation in these r= eceiver-ETRs when data flows from a multicast source to the receivers the r= eceiver-ETR supports.=20 > have a map-cache entry mapping the source EID to the RLOC of the source X= TR. That is a map-cache entry in the root-ITR not in the ETRs.=20 > This is the map-cache entry that we want the SMR to refresh. The creation= of this That is why this is backwards.=20 > map-cache was not triggered by traffic. It was triggered by an RPF lookup= by PIM in the receiver XTR. Understand. But it should be called another data structure. Like an RPF dat= a structure, like a RIB is used in normal native routing.=20 In any event, if you don't clear up this text, it will be hard for anyone t= o understand this.=20 Dino _______________________________________________ pim mailing list pim@ietf.org https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/pim From nobody Tue Jun 14 17:30:15 2016 Return-Path: X-Original-To: lisp@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: lisp@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id B7AEC12DA4D; Tue, 14 Jun 2016 17:30:08 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -15.947 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-15.947 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_HI=-5, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_H3=-0.01, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_WL=-0.01, RP_MATCHES_RCVD=-1.426, SPF_PASS=-0.001, USER_IN_DEF_DKIM_WL=-7.5] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (1024-bit key) header.d=cisco.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id gXnxOdbcslNe; Tue, 14 Jun 2016 17:30:07 -0700 (PDT) Received: from alln-iport-5.cisco.com (alln-iport-5.cisco.com [173.37.142.92]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher DHE-RSA-SEED-SHA (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id D0A2F12DA5C; Tue, 14 Jun 2016 17:30:06 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/simple; d=cisco.com; i=@cisco.com; l=4007; q=dns/txt; s=iport; t=1465950606; x=1467160206; h=from:to:cc:subject:date:message-id:references: in-reply-to:content-transfer-encoding:mime-version; bh=geIytB/TYSzr6TV54WoBEelhYaREmeUcoxO3Jg8dA/o=; b=cPh5WUtRRbiXIRZLcbwBZzUJfMXwHrpVOPIQ3pBZC4P2B909P+x9sq8T gVME+0QyRMxUuk7fb4PKieJb6kNSTddg2UJDZ4ad+D6j8uxGgDS/WIbce bgrhmPhQ6CwSqY71K3ilnhu/mWwHkggktmjxx5Z6FwZcctA8oBfp4yKv/ U=; X-IronPort-Anti-Spam-Filtered: true X-IronPort-Anti-Spam-Result: =?us-ascii?q?A0AfAgA2oGBX/49dJa1dgz5WfQavMIwCg?= =?us-ascii?q?XkXC4V1AoE1OBQBAQEBAQEBZSeESwEBAQMBAQEBNzQLBQcEAgEIEQQBAR8JByE?= =?us-ascii?q?GCxQJCAIEAQ0FCIgOAw8IDrleDYNzAQEBAQEBAQEBAQEBAQEBAQEBAQEBFwWGJ?= =?us-ascii?q?4RNgkOBZ4VxBZgvNAGGBIYqgXOPKYgHh2wBHjaCBxyBS26JCX8BAQE?= X-IronPort-AV: E=Sophos;i="5.26,473,1459814400"; d="scan'208";a="283830692" Received: from rcdn-core-7.cisco.com ([173.37.93.143]) by alln-iport-5.cisco.com with ESMTP/TLS/DHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384; 15 Jun 2016 00:30:06 +0000 Received: from XCH-ALN-009.cisco.com (xch-aln-009.cisco.com [173.36.7.19]) by rcdn-core-7.cisco.com (8.14.5/8.14.5) with ESMTP id u5F0U53C000567 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Wed, 15 Jun 2016 00:30:06 GMT Received: from xch-aln-008.cisco.com (173.36.7.18) by XCH-ALN-009.cisco.com (173.36.7.19) with Microsoft SMTP Server (TLS) id 15.0.1104.5; Tue, 14 Jun 2016 19:30:05 -0500 Received: from xch-aln-008.cisco.com ([173.36.7.18]) by XCH-ALN-008.cisco.com ([173.36.7.18]) with mapi id 15.00.1104.009; Tue, 14 Jun 2016 19:30:05 -0500 From: "Jesus Arango (jearango)" To: Michael McBride , Dino Farinacci Thread-Topic: [pim] [lisp] WGLC draft-ietf-pim-join-attributes-for-lisp-03 Thread-Index: AQHRxpygmemjggFTX0OHTWYdk2xu8Z/prJzw Date: Wed, 15 Jun 2016 00:30:05 +0000 Message-ID: <5816be226b114ede84672f2786b1adaa@XCH-ALN-008.cisco.com> References: <0FAB6A25-739D-462D-BE0B-7768BCD04753@gmail.com> <76C8DE6E-7E98-45BA-96FC-E25ABFF4EFDE@gmail.com> <8CCB28152EA2E14A96BBEDC15823481A09E9A57E@dfweml501-mbx> In-Reply-To: <8CCB28152EA2E14A96BBEDC15823481A09E9A57E@dfweml501-mbx> Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-ms-exchange-transport-fromentityheader: Hosted x-originating-ip: [10.24.122.117] Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable MIME-Version: 1.0 Archived-At: Cc: "lisp@ietf.org" , "pim@ietf.org" , "Stig Venaas \(svenaas\)" Subject: Re: [lisp] [pim] WGLC draft-ietf-pim-join-attributes-for-lisp-03 X-BeenThere: lisp@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.17 Precedence: list List-Id: List for the discussion of the Locator/ID Separation Protocol List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 15 Jun 2016 00:30:09 -0000 Hi Mike, Yes, all comments were addressed. I received approval from Dino and from al= l other authors. Thank you Jesus -----Original Message----- From: Michael McBride [mailto:Michael.McBride@huawei.com]=20 Sent: Tuesday, June 14, 2016 5:27 PM To: Jesus Arango (jearango) ; Dino Farinacci Cc: lisp@ietf.org; pim@ietf.org; Stig Venaas (svenaas) Subject: RE: [pim] [lisp] WGLC draft-ietf-pim-join-attributes-for-lisp-03 Hi Jesus, Have all comments (Dino's) been addressed in this rev? If so we will forwar= d the draft to Alvaro (iesg). Otherwise we will wait until everyone is happ= y. thanks, mike -----Original Message----- From: pim [mailto:pim-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of Jesus Arango (jearango= ) Sent: Tuesday, June 14, 2016 12:24 PM To: Dino Farinacci Cc: lisp@ietf.org; pim@ietf.org; Stig Venaas (svenaas) Subject: Re: [pim] [lisp] WGLC draft-ietf-pim-join-attributes-for-lisp-03 FYI, A new version has been uploaded with all the revisions that were brought up= during the last-call. Here is the new version: https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-pim-join-attributes-for-lisp-04 Jesus -----Original Message----- From: Jesus Arango (jearango)=20 Sent: Tuesday, June 7, 2016 11:47 PM To: 'Dino Farinacci' Cc: pim@ietf.org; lisp@ietf.org; Stig Venaas (svenaas) Subject: RE: [lisp] [pim] WGLC draft-ietf-pim-join-attributes-for-lisp-03 FYI, I am collaborating with Dino on his comments. We agreed to do some changes = and are actively working on them. I will share the changes and publish a ne= w draft version once we reach an agreement on the exact wording to use. Thanks Jesus -----Original Message----- From: Dino Farinacci [mailto:farinacci@gmail.com]=20 Sent: Thursday, June 2, 2016 7:47 PM To: Jesus Arango (jearango) Cc: pim@ietf.org; lisp@ietf.org; Stig Venaas (svenaas) Subject: Re: [lisp] [pim] WGLC draft-ietf-pim-join-attributes-for-lisp-03 > I don't think map-notifies are relevant in the context of this draft. Kee= p in mind that this draft is written for "pim-signaled" head-end replicatio= n. In your "signal-free" draft, map-notifies are the correct message becaus= e you are tracking changes in the set of receiver RLOCS and that translates= into changes in the merged RLOC set. In this draft, we are tracking change= s in source EID location and the proper message for that is an SMR. I was thinking of using Map-Notifies in this application not in the signal-= free one.=20 What you do is have the root-xTR register as a receiver-xTR so when a move= occurs the new root-xTR changes which causes the map-server to trigger a M= ap-Notify to each RLOC in the RLIC-set because there was an RLOC-set chang= e.=20 > The receivers do have map-caches. They In this data forwarding direction, this is an ETR. ETRs have database-entri= es which are registered. Used for decapsulation.=20 Mao-caches are used for encapsulation. There is no encapsulation in these r= eceiver-ETRs when data flows from a multicast source to the receivers the r= eceiver-ETR supports.=20 > have a map-cache entry mapping the source EID to the RLOC of the source X= TR. That is a map-cache entry in the root-ITR not in the ETRs.=20 > This is the map-cache entry that we want the SMR to refresh. The creation= of this That is why this is backwards.=20 > map-cache was not triggered by traffic. It was triggered by an RPF lookup= by PIM in the receiver XTR. Understand. But it should be called another data structure. Like an RPF dat= a structure, like a RIB is used in normal native routing.=20 In any event, if you don't clear up this text, it will be hard for anyone t= o understand this.=20 Dino _______________________________________________ pim mailing list pim@ietf.org https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/pim From nobody Wed Jun 15 13:13:55 2016 Return-Path: X-Original-To: lisp@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: lisp@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5808912DB4D; Wed, 15 Jun 2016 13:13:47 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -8.325 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-8.325 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_HI=-5, RP_MATCHES_RCVD=-1.426] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 242GUliZqxNX; Wed, 15 Jun 2016 13:13:43 -0700 (PDT) Received: from vapor.isi.edu (vapor.isi.edu [128.9.64.64]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 5ACA612DB3F; Wed, 15 Jun 2016 13:13:43 -0700 (PDT) Received: from [128.9.184.95] ([128.9.184.95]) (authenticated bits=0) by vapor.isi.edu (8.13.8/8.13.8) with ESMTP id u5FKCVX2010402 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES128-SHA bits=128 verify=NOT); Wed, 15 Jun 2016 13:12:32 -0700 (PDT) To: Lloyd Wood , Softwires WG , "int-area@ietf.org" , "lisp@ietf.org" , "tsvwg@ietf.org" , Xuxiaohu , "nvo3@ietf.org" References: <573E2A0E.1060609@isi.edu> <1FEE3F8F5CCDE64C9A8E8F4AD27C19EE0D54EB60@NKGEML515-MBX.china.huawei.com> <573F453C.5060908@isi.edu> <1FEE3F8F5CCDE64C9A8E8F4AD27C19EE0D554B73@NKGEML515-MBS.china.huawei.com> <5743303C.5040109@isi.edu> <1FEE3F8F5CCDE64C9A8E8F4AD27C19EE0D55514C@NKGEML515-MBS.china.huawei.com> <5743DD16.3050506@isi.edu> <1FEE3F8F5CCDE64C9A8E8F4AD27C19EE0D555482@NKGEML515-MBS.china.huawei.com> <57448C14.2060203@isi.edu> <1FEE3F8F5CCDE64C9A8E8F4AD27C19EE0D5557DE@NKGEML515-MBS.china.huawei.com> <9c462520-eb8e-fcd0-0a08-228f80fbc779@isi.edu> <1FEE3F8F5CCDE64C9A8E8F4AD27C19EE0D5596E0@NKGEML515-MBS.china.huawei.com> <974977917.2492241.1465708308527.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> From: Joe Touch Message-ID: <5761B6AF.8030107@isi.edu> Date: Wed, 15 Jun 2016 13:12:31 -0700 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 6.3; WOW64; rv:38.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/38.7.2 MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: <974977917.2492241.1465708308527.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="------------030502040200010703010909" X-ISI-4-43-8-MailScanner: Found to be clean X-MailScanner-From: touch@isi.edu Archived-At: Subject: Re: [lisp] [tsvwg] Is it feasible to perform fragmentation on UDP encapsulated packets. X-BeenThere: lisp@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.17 Precedence: list List-Id: List for the discussion of the Locator/ID Separation Protocol List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 15 Jun 2016 20:13:47 -0000 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --------------030502040200010703010909 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit On 6/11/2016 10:11 PM, Lloyd Wood wrote: > Fragmentation should be strongly discouraged. Avoided where possible for sure. > > if you've designed a tunnelling solution and you have fragmentation > happening as a matter of course, you've designed it wrong. If you have a solution that recurses (X over X, with some intervening layers or not), and X has a required minimum message size, then you either have a solution that - in at least some non-trivial situations - will fragment as a matter of course or a fantasy that cannot exist. The only reason we avoid this in typical operation is by avoiding X over X. Once you have a tunnel, that might not be avoidable (or even detectable, depending on encryption). Joe > > Lloyd Wood > lloyd.wood@yahoo.co.uk > > On Friday, May 27, 2016, 8:10 PM, Xuxiaohu wrote: > > nothing to do with the WG adoption call now. It's just a > discussion on a particular issue which is related to those WGs > which are working on UDP tunnels. The reason for containing the > old email is to use it as a background which may be useful for > better understanding of this particular issue> > > The possible side-effect of performing fragmentation on UDP > encapsulated packets is to worsen the reassembly burden on tunnel > egress since fragments of UDP encapsulated packets are more likely > to be forwarded across different paths towards the tunnel egress > than those of IP or GRE encapsulated packets. > > It seems that most X-over-UDP proposals choose to prohibit the > tunnel ingress from performing fragmentation on UDP encapsulated > packets. See the following quoted text regarding fragmentation > from those X-over-UDP drafts: > > LISP: > > When an ITR receives a packet from a site-facing interface and adds H > octets worth of encapsulation to yield a packet size greater than L > octets, it resolves the MTU issue by first splitting the original > packet into 2 equal-sized fragments. A LISP header is then > prepended > to each fragment. > > VXLAN: > > VTEPs MUST NOT fragment VXLAN packets. Intermediate routers may > fragment encapsulated VXLAN packets due to the larger frame size. > The destination VTEP MAY silently discard such VXLAN fragments. > > VXLAN-GPE: > > VTEPs MUST never fragment an encapsulated VXLAN GPE packet, and when > the outer IP header is IPv4, VTEPs MUST set the DF bit in the outer > IPv4 header. > > GEVENE: > > To prevent fragmentation and maximize performance, the best practice > when using Geneve is to ensure that the MTU of the physical network > is greater than or equal to the MTU of the encapsulated network plus > tunnel headers. > > GUE: > > If a packet is fragmented before encapsulation in GUE, all the > related fragments must be encapsulated using the same source port > (inner flow identifier). An operator may set MTU to account for > encapsulation overhead and reduce the likelihood of fragmentation. > > GRE/UDP > > Regarding packet fragmentation, an encapsulator/decapsulator SHOULD > be compliant with [RFC7588] and perform fragmentation before the > encapsulation. > > However, the above choice seems conflict with the requirements as > described in https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-intarea-tunnels-02 > > > I wonder whether the IETF should reach a consensus on whether or > not the fragmentation on UDP encapsulated packets should be allowed. > > Best regards, > Xiaohu > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: Xuxiaohu > > Sent: Thursday, May 26, 2016 4:35 PM > > To: 'Joe Touch'; Fred Baker (fred); Wassim Haddad > > Cc: int-area@ietf.org > > Subject: RE: [Int-area] Call for adoption of > draft-xu-intarea-ip-in-udp-03 > > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > From: Joe Touch [mailto:touch@isi.edu ] > > > Sent: Thursday, May 26, 2016 2:11 AM > > > To: Xuxiaohu; Fred Baker (fred); Wassim Haddad > > > Cc: int-area@ietf.org > > > Subject: Re: [Int-area] Call for adoption of > > > draft-xu-intarea-ip-in-udp-03 > > > > > > > > > > > > On 5/24/2016 7:24 PM, Xuxiaohu wrote: > > > > Hi Joe, > > > > > > > > I wonder whether you want to tell me the following truth by the > > > > example that you gave: no matter whatever improvements we > had done > > > > with this draft, those persons who dislike it by the light > of nature > > > > would dislike it in the end. > > > > > > The only improvements that would make this doc useful would be > to add > > > capabilities already in GRE/UDP or GUE/UDP, which we already have. > > > > Let's go over the four things you mentioned earlier in GRE/UDP > and GUE/UDP: > > > > - stronger checksums > > > > In GRE/UDP, in order to use UDP-zero-checksum, it gave the following > > restrictions: > > " 6. UDP Checksum Handling > > > > 6.1. UDP Checksum with IPv4 > > > > For UDP in IPv4, the UDP checksum MUST be processed as > specified in > > [RFC768] and [RFC1122] for both transmit and receive. The IPv4 > > > > > > > > Yong, Crabber, Xu, Herbert > [Page 12] > > > -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- > > > > Internet-Draft GRE-in-UDP Encapsulation > March 2016 > > > > header includes a checksum which protects against mis-delivery of > > the packet due to corruption of IP addresses. The UDP checksum > > potentially provides protection against corruption of the UDP > header, > > GRE header, and GRE payload. Disabling the use of checksums is a > > deployment consideration that should take into account the > risk and > > effects of packet corruption. > > > > When a decapsulator receives a packet, the UDP checksum field > MUST > > be processed. If the UDP checksum is non-zero, the > decapsulator MUST > > verify the checksum before accepting the packet. By default a > > decapsulator SHOULD accept UDP packets with a zero checksum. > A node > > MAY be configured to disallow zero checksums per [RFC1122]; > this may > > be done selectively, for instance disallowing zero checksums from > > certain hosts that are known to be sending over paths subject to > > packet corruption. If verification of a non-zero checksum > fails, a > > decapsulator lacks the capability to verify a non-zero > checksum, or > > a packet with a zero-checksum was received and the > decapsulator is > > configured to disallow, the packet MUST be dropped and an > event MAY > > be logged. > > > > 6.2. UDP Checksum with IPv6 > > > > For UDP in IPv6, the UDP checksum MUST be processed as > specified in > > [RFC768] and [RFC2460] for both transmit and receive. > > > > When UDP is used over IPv6, the UDP checksum is relied upon to > > protect both the IPv6 and UDP headers from corruption. As such, A > > default GRE-in-UDP Tunnel MUST perform UDP checksum; A TMCE > GRE-in- > > UDP Tunnel MAY be configured with the UDP zero-checksum mode > if the > > traffic-managed controlled environment or a set of closely > > cooperating traffic-managed controlled environments (such as by > > network operators who have agreed to work together in order to > > jointly provide specific services) meet at least one of following > > conditions: > > > > a. It is known (perhaps through knowledge of equipment types and > > lower layer checks) that packet corruption is exceptionally > > unlikely and where the operator is willing to take the risk of > > undetected packet corruption. > > > > b. It is judged through observational measurements (perhaps of > > historic or current traffic flows that use a non-zero checksum) > > that the level of packet corruption is tolerably low and where > > the operator is willing to take the risk of undetected packet > > corruption. > > > > > > > > > > > > Yong, Crabber, Xu, Herbert > [Page 13] > > > -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- > > > > Internet-Draft GRE-in-UDP Encapsulation > March 2016 > > > > c. Carrying applications that are tolerant of mis-delivered or > > corrupted packets (perhaps through higher layer checksum, > > validation, and retransmission or transmission redundancy) > where > > the operator is willing to rely on the applications using the > > tunnel to survive any corrupt packets. > > > > The following requirements apply to a TMCE GRE-in-UDP tunnel that > > use UDP zero-checksum mode: > > > > a. Use of the UDP checksum with IPv6 MUST be the default > > configuration of all GRE-in-UDP tunnels. > > > > b. The GRE-in-UDP tunnel implementation MUST comply with all > > requirements specified in Section 4 of [RFC6936] and with > > requirement 1 specified in Section 5 of [RFC6936]. > > > > c. The tunnel decapsulator SHOULD only allow the use of UDP > zero- > > checksum mode for IPv6 on a single received UDP Destination > > Port regardless of the encapsulator. The motivation for this > > requirement is possible corruption of the UDP Destination > Port, > > which may cause packet delivery to the wrong UDP port. If > that > > other UDP port requires the UDP checksum, the mis-delivered > > packet will be discarded. > > > > d. It is RECOMMENDED that the UDP zero-checksum mode for > IPv6 is > > only enabled for certain selected source addresses. The > tunnel > > decapsulator MUST check that the source and destination IPv6 > > addresses are valid for the GRE-in-UDP tunnel on which the > > packet was received if that tunnel uses UDP zero-checksum > mode > > and discard any packet for which this check fails. > > > > e. The tunnel encapsulator SHOULD use different IPv6 > addresses for > > each GRE-in-UDP tunnel that uses UDP zero-checksum mode > > regardless of the decapsulator in order to strengthen the > > decapsulator's check of the IPv6 source address (i.e., > the same > > IPv6 source address SHOULD NOT be used with more than one > IPv6 > > destination address, independent of whether that destination > > address is a unicast or multicast address). When this is not > > possible, it is RECOMMENDED to use each source IPv6 > address for > > as few UDP zero-checksum mode GRE-in-UDP tunnels as is > feasible. > > > > f. When any middlebox exists on the path of a GRE-in-UDP > tunnel, > > it is RECOMMENDED to use the default mode, i.e. use UDP > > checksum, to reduce the chance that the encapsulated > packets to > > be dropped. > > > > > > > > > > > > Yong, Crabber, Xu, Herbert > [Page 14] > > > -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- > > > > Internet-Draft GRE-in-UDP Encapsulation > March 2016 > > > > g. Any middlebox that allows the UDP zero-checksum mode for > IPv6 > > MUST comply with requirement 1 and 8-10 in Section 5 of > > [RFC6936]. > > > > h. Measures SHOULD be taken to prevent IPv6 traffic with > zero UDP > > checksums from "escaping" to the general Internet; see > Section > > 8 for examples of such measures. > > > > i. IPv6 traffic with zero UDP checksums MUST be actively > monitored > > for errors by the network operator. For example, the operator > > may monitor Ethernet layer packet error rates. > > > > j. If a packet with a non-zero checksum is received, the > checksum > > MUST be verified before accepting the packet. This is > > regardless of whether the tunnel encapsulator and > decapsulator > > have been configured with UDP zero-checksum mode. > > > > The above requirements do not change either the requirements > > specified in [RFC2460] as modified by [RFC6935] or the > requirements > > specified in [RFC6936]. > > > > The requirement to check the source IPv6 address in addition > to the > > destination IPv6 address, plus the strong recommendation against > > reuse of source IPv6 addresses among GRE-in-UDP tunnels > collectively > > provide some mitigation for the absence of UDP checksum > coverage of > > the IPv6 header. A traffic-managed controlled environment that > > satisfies at least one of three conditions listed above in this > > section provides additional assurance. > > > > A GRE-in-UDP tunnel is suitable for transmission over lower > layers > > in the traffic-managed controlled environments that are > allowed by > > the exceptions stated above and the rate of corruption of the > inner > > IP packet on such networks is not expected to increase by > comparison > > to GRE traffic that is not encapsulated in UDP. For these > reasons, > > GRE-in-UDP does not provide an additional integrity check except > > when GRE checksum is used when UDP zero-checksum mode is used > with > > IPv6, and this design is in accordance with requirements 2, 3 > and 5 > > specified in Section 5 of [RFC6936]. > > > > Generic Router Encapsulation (GRE) does not accumulate incorrect > > state as a consequence of GRE header corruption. A corrupt GRE > > packet may result in either packet discard or forwarding of the > > packet without accumulation of GRE state. Active monitoring > of GRE- > > in-UDP traffic for errors is REQUIRED as occurrence of errors > will > > result in some accumulation of error information outside the > > protocol for operational and management purposes. This design > is in > > accordance with requirement 4 specified in Section 5 of > [RFC6936]. > > > > > > > > Yong, Crabber, Xu, Herbert > [Page 15] > > > -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- > > > > Internet-Draft GRE-in-UDP Encapsulation > March 2016 > > > > The remaining requirements specified in Section 5 of > [RFC6936] are > > not applicable to GRE-in-UDP. Requirements 6 and 7 do not apply > > because GRE does not include a control feedback mechanism. > > Requirements 8-10 are middlebox requirements that do not apply to > > GRE-in-UDP tunnel endpoints (see Section 7.1 for further > middlebox > > discussion). > > > > It is worth mentioning that the use of a zero UDP checksum should > > present the equivalent risk of undetected packet corruption when > > sending similar packet using GRE-in-IPv6 without UDP > [RFC7676] and > > without GRE checksums. > > > > In summary, a TMCE GRE-in-UDP Tunnel is allowed to use UDP-zero- > > checksum mode for IPv6 when the conditions and requirements > stated > > above are met. Otherwise the UDP checksum need to be used for > IPv6 > > as specified in [RFC768] and [RFC2460]. Use of GRE checksum is > > RECOMMENED when the UDP checksum is not used. > > " > > > > In GUE, to support UDP-checksum-zero, it said > > > > " Therefore, when GUE is used over > > IPv6, either the UDP checksum must be enabled or the GUE header > > checksum must be used. An encapsulator MAY set a zero UDP > checksum > > for performance or implementation reasons, in which case the GUE > > header checksum MUST be used or applicable requirements for using > > zero UDP checksums in [GREUDP] MUST be met. If the UDP > checksum is > > enabled, then the GUE header checksum should not be used > since it is > > mostly redundant." > > > > It's easy for me to add the similar words to the IP-in-UDP draft > like "the > > applicable requirements for using zero UDP checksum in [GREUDP] > MUST be > > met when zero UDP checksum is used by the tunnel ingress". > However, the > > major goal for disabling the UDP checksum is to improve the > performance. > > When GUE header checksum is used and/or the bunch of applicable > > requirements as described in GRE/UDP are verified, is the goal > of improving > > performance still achievable? If not, why not directly enable > the UDP-checksum > > instead? > > > > - fragmentation support > > > > In GRE/UDP, it said > > > > " 4.1. MTU and Fragmentation > > > > Regarding packet fragmentation, an encapsulator/decapsulator > SHOULD > > be compliant with [RFC7588] and perform fragmentation before the > > encapsulation. The size of fragments SHOULD be less or equal > to the > > PMTU associated with the path between the GRE ingress and the GRE > > egress tunnel endpoints minus the GRE and UDP overhead ..." > > > > in GUE, it said > > > > " 4.9. MTU and fragmentation > > > > Standard conventions for handling of MTU (Maximum > Transmission Unit) > > and fragmentation in conjunction with networking tunnels > > (encapsulation of layer 2 or layer 3 packets) should be followed. > > Details are described in MTU and Fragmentation Issues with > In-the- > > Network Tunneling [RFC4459]... " > > > > It seems that the only missing thing in the IP-in-UDP draft is > to allow the outer > > fragmentation. However, as it said in > > > (https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-intarea-tunnels-02#page-13), > " ...IPsec > > performs only Outer Fragmentation; this distinguishes it from > IP-in-IP, which > > performs only Inner Fragmentation. " Note that IP-in-IP is the > dominant > > encapsulation choice within Softwires networks. In other words, > performing > > only inner fragmentation works very well in practice. > Furthermore, the outer > > fragmentation issue (e.g., reassembly cost for the egress) would > become even > > worse since the fragments of X-in-UDP packets are more likely to > be forwarded > > across different paths than those of X-in-IP and X-in-GRE > packets. Hence, I'm > > wondering whether it's worthwhile to support the outer > fragmentation on UDP > > encapsulated packets which seems useless in practice. > > > > - signalling support (e.g., to test whether a tunnel is up or > > to measure MTUs) > > > > I haven't found any description of this in both GRE/UDP and GUE. > Did you? > > > > - support for robust ID fields (related to fragmentation, > > e.g., to overcome the limits of IPv4 ID as per RFC 6864) > > > > I haven't found any description of this in both GRE/UDP and GUE. > Did you? > > > > Xiaohu > > > > > It is not our obligation to find a way for your document to > proceed - > > > that onus is on you. > > > > > > Joe > --------------030502040200010703010909 Content-Type: text/html; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit

On 6/11/2016 10:11 PM, Lloyd Wood wrote:
Fragmentation should be strongly discouraged.

Avoided where possible for sure.

if you've designed a tunnelling solution and you have fragmentation happening as a matter of course, you've designed it wrong.

If you have a solution that recurses (X over X, with some intervening layers or not), and X has a required minimum message size, then you either have a solution that - in at least some non-trivial situations - will fragment as a matter of course or a fantasy that cannot exist.

The only reason we avoid this in typical operation is by avoiding X over X. Once you have a tunnel, that might not be avoidable (or even detectable, depending on encryption).

Joe


Lloyd Wood

On Friday, May 27, 2016, 8:10 PM, Xuxiaohu <xuxiaohu@huawei.com> wrote:

<Note that I have changed the subject of the email hence it has nothing to do with the WG adoption call now. It's just a discussion on a particular issue which is related to those WGs which are working on UDP tunnels. The reason for containing the old email is to use it as a background which may be useful for better understanding of this particular issue>

The possible side-effect of performing fragmentation on UDP encapsulated packets is to worsen the reassembly burden on tunnel egress since fragments of UDP encapsulated packets are more likely to be forwarded across different paths towards the tunnel egress than those of IP or GRE encapsulated packets.

It seems that most X-over-UDP proposals choose to prohibit the tunnel ingress from performing fragmentation on UDP encapsulated packets. See the following quoted text regarding fragmentation from those X-over-UDP drafts:

LISP:

When an ITR receives a packet from a site-facing interface and adds H
  octets worth of encapsulation to yield a packet size greater than L
  octets, it resolves the MTU issue by first splitting the original
  packet into 2 equal-sized fragments.  A LISP header is then prepended
  to each fragment.

VXLAN:

VTEPs MUST NOT fragment VXLAN packets.  Intermediate routers may
  fragment encapsulated VXLAN packets due to the larger frame size.
  The destination VTEP MAY silently discard such VXLAN fragments.

VXLAN-GPE:

VTEPs MUST never fragment an encapsulated VXLAN GPE packet, and when
  the outer IP header is IPv4, VTEPs MUST set the DF bit in the outer
  IPv4 header.

GEVENE:

  To prevent fragmentation and maximize performance, the best practice
  when using Geneve is to ensure that the MTU of the physical network
  is greater than or equal to the MTU of the encapsulated network plus
  tunnel headers.

GUE:

    If a packet is fragmented before encapsulation in GUE, all the
    related fragments must be encapsulated using the same source port
    (inner flow identifier). An operator may set MTU to account for
    encapsulation overhead and reduce the likelihood of fragmentation.

GRE/UDP

Regarding packet fragmentation, an encapsulator/decapsulator SHOULD
  be compliant with [RFC7588] and perform fragmentation before the
  encapsulation.

However, the above choice seems conflict with the requirements as described in https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-intarea-tunnels-02


I wonder whether the IETF should reach a consensus on whether or not the fragmentation on UDP encapsulated packets should be allowed.
 
Best regards,
Xiaohu

> -----Original Message-----
> From: Xuxiaohu
> Sent: Thursday, May 26, 2016 4:35 PM
> To: 'Joe Touch'; Fred Baker (fred); Wassim Haddad
> Cc: int-area@ietf.org
> Subject: RE: [Int-area] Call for adoption of draft-xu-intarea-ip-in-udp-03
>
>
>
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: Joe Touch [mailto:touch@isi.edu]
> > Sent: Thursday, May 26, 2016 2:11 AM
> > To: Xuxiaohu; Fred Baker (fred); Wassim Haddad
> > Cc: int-area@ietf.org
> > Subject: Re: [Int-area] Call for adoption of
> > draft-xu-intarea-ip-in-udp-03
> >
> >
> >
> > On 5/24/2016 7:24 PM, Xuxiaohu wrote:
> > > Hi Joe,
> > >
> > > I wonder whether you want to tell me the following truth by the
> > > example that you gave: no matter whatever improvements we had done
> > > with this draft, those persons who dislike it by the light of nature
> > > would dislike it in the end.
> >
> > The only improvements that would make this doc useful would be to add
> > capabilities already in GRE/UDP or GUE/UDP, which we already have.
>
> Let's go over the four things you mentioned earlier in GRE/UDP and GUE/UDP:
>
>     - stronger checksums
>
> In GRE/UDP, in order to use UDP-zero-checksum, it gave the following
> restrictions:
> " 6. UDP Checksum Handling
>
>    6.1. UDP Checksum with IPv4
>
>    For UDP in IPv4, the UDP checksum MUST be processed as specified in
>    [RFC768] and [RFC1122] for both transmit and receive. The IPv4
>
>
>
> Yong, Crabber, Xu, Herbert                                    [Page 12]
> --------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> Internet-Draft          GRE-in-UDP Encapsulation            March 2016
>
>    header includes a checksum which protects against mis-delivery of
>    the packet due to corruption of IP addresses. The UDP checksum
>    potentially provides protection against corruption of the UDP header,
>    GRE header, and GRE payload. Disabling the use of checksums is a
>    deployment consideration that should take into account the risk and
>    effects of packet corruption.
>
>    When a decapsulator receives a packet, the UDP checksum field MUST
>    be processed. If the UDP checksum is non-zero, the decapsulator MUST
>    verify the checksum before accepting the packet. By default a
>    decapsulator SHOULD accept UDP packets with a zero checksum. A node
>    MAY be configured to disallow zero checksums per [RFC1122]; this may
>    be done selectively, for instance disallowing zero checksums from
>    certain hosts that are known to be sending over paths subject to
>    packet corruption. If verification of a non-zero checksum fails, a
>    decapsulator lacks the capability to verify a non-zero checksum, or
>    a packet with a zero-checksum was received and the decapsulator is
>    configured to disallow, the packet MUST be dropped and an event MAY
>    be logged.
>
>    6.2. UDP Checksum with IPv6
>
>    For UDP in IPv6, the UDP checksum MUST be processed as specified in
>    [RFC768] and [RFC2460] for both transmit and receive.
>
>    When UDP is used over IPv6, the UDP checksum is relied upon to
>    protect both the IPv6 and UDP headers from corruption. As such, A
>    default GRE-in-UDP Tunnel MUST perform UDP checksum; A TMCE GRE-in-
>    UDP Tunnel MAY be configured with the UDP zero-checksum mode if the
>    traffic-managed controlled environment or a set of closely
>    cooperating traffic-managed controlled environments (such as by
>    network operators who have agreed to work together in order to
>    jointly provide specific services) meet at least one of following
>    conditions:
>
>    a. It is known (perhaps through knowledge of equipment types and
>      lower layer checks) that packet corruption is exceptionally
>      unlikely and where the operator is willing to take the risk of
>      undetected packet corruption.
>
>    b. It is judged through observational measurements (perhaps of
>      historic or current traffic flows that use a non-zero checksum)
>      that the level of packet corruption is tolerably low and where
>      the operator is willing to take the risk of undetected packet
>      corruption.
>
>
>
>
>
> Yong, Crabber, Xu, Herbert                                    [Page 13]
> --------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> Internet-Draft          GRE-in-UDP Encapsulation            March 2016
>
>    c. Carrying applications that are tolerant of mis-delivered or
>      corrupted packets (perhaps through higher layer checksum,
>      validation, and retransmission or transmission redundancy) where
>      the operator is willing to rely on the applications using the
>      tunnel to survive any corrupt packets.
>
>    The following requirements apply to a TMCE GRE-in-UDP tunnel that
>    use UDP zero-checksum mode:
>
>      a. Use of the UDP checksum with IPv6 MUST be the default
>        configuration of all GRE-in-UDP tunnels.
>
>      b. The GRE-in-UDP tunnel implementation MUST comply with all
>        requirements specified in Section 4 of [RFC6936] and with
>        requirement 1 specified in Section 5 of [RFC6936].
>
>      c. The tunnel decapsulator SHOULD only allow the use of UDP zero-
>        checksum mode for IPv6 on a single received UDP Destination
>        Port regardless of the encapsulator. The motivation for this
>        requirement is possible corruption of the UDP Destination Port,
>        which may cause packet delivery to the wrong UDP port. If that
>        other UDP port requires the UDP checksum, the mis-delivered
>        packet will be discarded.
>
>      d. It is RECOMMENDED that the UDP zero-checksum mode for IPv6 is
>        only enabled for certain selected source addresses. The tunnel
>        decapsulator MUST check that the source and destination IPv6
>        addresses are valid for the GRE-in-UDP tunnel on which the
>        packet was received if that tunnel uses UDP zero-checksum mode
>        and discard any packet for which this check fails.
>
>      e. The tunnel encapsulator SHOULD use different IPv6 addresses for
>        each GRE-in-UDP tunnel that uses UDP zero-checksum mode
>        regardless of the decapsulator in order to strengthen the
>        decapsulator's check of the IPv6 source address (i.e., the same
>        IPv6 source address SHOULD NOT be used with more than one IPv6
>        destination address, independent of whether that destination
>        address is a unicast or multicast address). When this is not
>        possible, it is RECOMMENDED to use each source IPv6 address for
>        as few UDP zero-checksum mode GRE-in-UDP tunnels as is feasible.
>
>      f. When any middlebox exists on the path of a GRE-in-UDP tunnel,
>        it is RECOMMENDED to use the default mode, i.e. use UDP
>        checksum, to reduce the chance that the encapsulated packets to
>        be dropped.
>
>
>
>
>
> Yong, Crabber, Xu, Herbert                                    [Page 14]
> --------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> Internet-Draft          GRE-in-UDP Encapsulation            March 2016
>
>      g. Any middlebox that allows the UDP zero-checksum mode for IPv6
>        MUST comply with requirement 1 and 8-10 in Section 5 of
>        [RFC6936].
>
>      h. Measures SHOULD be taken to prevent IPv6 traffic with zero UDP
>        checksums from "escaping" to the general Internet; see Section
>        8 for examples of such measures.
>
>      i. IPv6 traffic with zero UDP checksums MUST be actively monitored
>        for errors by the network operator. For example, the operator
>        may monitor Ethernet layer packet error rates.
>
>      j. If a packet with a non-zero checksum is received, the checksum
>        MUST be verified before accepting the packet. This is
>        regardless of whether the tunnel encapsulator and decapsulator
>        have been configured with UDP zero-checksum mode.
>
>    The above requirements do not change either the requirements
>    specified in [RFC2460] as modified by [RFC6935] or the requirements
>    specified in [RFC6936].
>
>    The requirement to check the source IPv6 address in addition to the
>    destination IPv6 address, plus the strong recommendation against
>    reuse of source IPv6 addresses among GRE-in-UDP tunnels collectively
>    provide some mitigation for the absence of UDP checksum coverage of
>    the IPv6 header. A traffic-managed controlled environment that
>    satisfies at least one of three conditions listed above in this
>    section provides additional assurance.
>
>    A GRE-in-UDP tunnel is suitable for transmission over lower layers
>    in the traffic-managed controlled environments that are allowed by
>    the exceptions stated above and the rate of corruption of the inner
>    IP packet on such networks is not expected to increase by comparison
>    to GRE traffic that is not encapsulated in UDP.  For these reasons,
>    GRE-in-UDP does not provide an additional integrity check except
>    when GRE checksum is used when UDP zero-checksum mode is used with
>    IPv6, and this design is in accordance with requirements 2, 3 and 5
>    specified in Section 5 of [RFC6936].
>
>    Generic Router Encapsulation (GRE) does not accumulate incorrect
>    state as a consequence of GRE header corruption. A corrupt GRE
>    packet may result in either packet discard or forwarding of the
>    packet without accumulation of GRE state. Active monitoring of GRE-
>    in-UDP traffic for errors is REQUIRED as occurrence of errors will
>    result in some accumulation of error information outside the
>    protocol for operational and management purposes. This design is in
>    accordance with requirement 4 specified in Section 5 of [RFC6936].
>
>
>
> Yong, Crabber, Xu, Herbert                                    [Page 15]
> --------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> Internet-Draft          GRE-in-UDP Encapsulation            March 2016
>
>    The remaining requirements specified in Section 5 of [RFC6936] are
>    not applicable to GRE-in-UDP.  Requirements 6 and 7 do not apply
>    because GRE does not include a control feedback mechanism.
>    Requirements 8-10 are middlebox requirements that do not apply to
>    GRE-in-UDP tunnel endpoints (see Section 7.1 for further middlebox
>    discussion).
>
>    It is worth mentioning that the use of a zero UDP checksum should
>    present the equivalent risk of undetected packet corruption when
>    sending similar packet using GRE-in-IPv6 without UDP [RFC7676] and
>    without GRE checksums.
>
>    In summary, a TMCE GRE-in-UDP Tunnel is allowed to use UDP-zero-
>    checksum mode for IPv6 when the conditions and requirements stated
>    above are met. Otherwise the UDP checksum need to be used for IPv6
>    as specified in [RFC768] and [RFC2460]. Use of GRE checksum is
>    RECOMMENED when the UDP checksum is not used.
> "
>
> In GUE, to support UDP-checksum-zero, it said
>
> " Therefore, when GUE is used over
>    IPv6, either the UDP checksum must be enabled or the GUE header
>    checksum must be used.  An encapsulator MAY set a zero UDP checksum
>    for performance or implementation reasons, in which case the GUE
>    header checksum MUST be used or applicable requirements for using
>    zero UDP checksums in [GREUDP] MUST be met. If the UDP checksum is
>    enabled, then the GUE header checksum should not be used since it is
>    mostly redundant."
>
> It's easy for me to add the similar words to the IP-in-UDP draft like "the
> applicable requirements for using zero UDP checksum in [GREUDP] MUST be
> met when zero UDP checksum is used by the tunnel ingress". However, the
> major goal for disabling the UDP checksum is to improve the performance.
> When GUE header checksum is used and/or the bunch of applicable
> requirements as described in GRE/UDP are verified, is the goal of improving
> performance still achievable? If not, why not directly enable the UDP-checksum
> instead?
>
>     - fragmentation support
>
> In GRE/UDP, it said
>
> " 4.1. MTU and Fragmentation
>
>    Regarding packet fragmentation, an encapsulator/decapsulator SHOULD
>    be compliant with [RFC7588] and perform fragmentation before the
>    encapsulation. The size of fragments SHOULD be less or equal to the
>    PMTU associated with the path between the GRE ingress and the GRE
>    egress tunnel endpoints minus the GRE and UDP overhead ..."
>
> in GUE, it said
>
> " 4.9. MTU and fragmentation
>
>    Standard conventions for handling of MTU (Maximum Transmission Unit)
>    and fragmentation in conjunction with networking tunnels
>    (encapsulation of layer 2 or layer 3 packets) should be followed.
>    Details are described in MTU and Fragmentation Issues with In-the-
>    Network Tunneling [RFC4459]... "
>
> It seems that the only missing thing in the IP-in-UDP draft is to allow the outer
> fragmentation. However, as it said in
> (https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-intarea-tunnels-02#page-13), " ...IPsec
> performs only Outer Fragmentation; this distinguishes it from IP-in-IP, which
> performs only Inner Fragmentation. " Note that IP-in-IP is the dominant
> encapsulation choice within Softwires networks. In other words, performing
> only inner fragmentation works very well in practice. Furthermore, the outer
> fragmentation issue (e.g., reassembly cost for the egress) would become even
> worse since the fragments of X-in-UDP packets are more likely to be forwarded
> across different paths than those of X-in-IP and X-in-GRE packets. Hence, I'm
> wondering whether it's worthwhile to support the outer fragmentation on UDP
> encapsulated packets which seems useless in practice.
>
>     - signalling support (e.g., to test whether a tunnel is up or
>     to measure MTUs)
>
> I haven't found any description of this in both GRE/UDP and GUE. Did you?
>
>     - support for robust ID fields (related to fragmentation,
>     e.g., to overcome the limits of IPv4 ID as per RFC 6864)
>
> I haven't found any description of this in both GRE/UDP and GUE. Did you?
>
> Xiaohu
>
> > It is not our obligation to find a way for your document to proceed -
> > that onus is on you.
> >
> > Joe

--------------030502040200010703010909-- From nobody Sun Jun 19 23:17:23 2016 Return-Path: X-Original-To: lisp@ietf.org Delivered-To: lisp@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from ietfa.amsl.com (localhost [IPv6:::1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 667A312D09F; Sun, 19 Jun 2016 23:17:19 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: internet-drafts@ietf.org To: X-Test-IDTracker: no X-IETF-IDTracker: 6.23.0 Auto-Submitted: auto-generated Precedence: bulk Message-ID: <20160620061719.22356.43620.idtracker@ietfa.amsl.com> Date: Sun, 19 Jun 2016 23:17:19 -0700 Archived-At: Cc: lisp@ietf.org Subject: [lisp] I-D Action: draft-ietf-lisp-yang-02.txt X-BeenThere: lisp@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.17 List-Id: List for the discussion of the Locator/ID Separation Protocol List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 20 Jun 2016 06:17:19 -0000 A New Internet-Draft is available from the on-line Internet-Drafts directories. This draft is a work item of the Locator/ID Separation Protocol of the IETF. Title : LISP Configuration YANG Model Authors : Vina Ermagan Alberto Rodriguez-Natal Florin Coras Carl Moberg Albert Cabellos-Aparicio Fabio Maino Filename : draft-ietf-lisp-yang-02.txt Pages : 82 Date : 2016-06-19 Abstract: This document describes a YANG data model to use with the Locator/ID Separation Protocol (LISP). The IETF datatracker status page for this draft is: https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-lisp-yang/ There's also a htmlized version available at: https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-lisp-yang-02 A diff from the previous version is available at: https://www.ietf.org/rfcdiff?url2=draft-ietf-lisp-yang-02 Please note that it may take a couple of minutes from the time of submission until the htmlized version and diff are available at tools.ietf.org. Internet-Drafts are also available by anonymous FTP at: ftp://ftp.ietf.org/internet-drafts/ From nobody Sun Jun 19 23:23:19 2016 Return-Path: X-Original-To: lisp@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: lisp@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2E3D212D7F7 for ; Sun, 19 Jun 2016 23:23:18 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -15.947 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-15.947 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_HI=-5, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_H3=-0.01, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_WL=-0.01, RP_MATCHES_RCVD=-1.426, SPF_PASS=-0.001, USER_IN_DEF_DKIM_WL=-7.5] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (1024-bit key) header.d=cisco.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id k4x4RtUDyGj2 for ; Sun, 19 Jun 2016 23:23:16 -0700 (PDT) Received: from rcdn-iport-2.cisco.com (rcdn-iport-2.cisco.com [173.37.86.73]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher DHE-RSA-SEED-SHA (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id A4CF812D761 for ; Sun, 19 Jun 2016 23:23:16 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/simple; d=cisco.com; i=@cisco.com; l=1745; q=dns/txt; s=iport; t=1466403796; x=1467613396; h=from:to:subject:date:message-id:references:in-reply-to: content-id:content-transfer-encoding:mime-version; bh=aDxQUC8HJjmFnK/6sGABQFxIB7YkGs6DiHV0ohjFGhs=; b=AmGvo4WBn0hb6PQ9A/k2vdVTlSVWjCo4vrq5VSKNM4ySrwbAIx74nF2O wxxLI2HJGynnsLJeaMX3dJUTj1S+xBjkMeUZZ3UoADhRcF+WKCwgTugRA WiKlaD5Ud8naXmXUJwRGX+sLKGAhS/D53CDB69UPkyt6hxzBoYRuceCV6 g=; X-IronPort-Anti-Spam-Filtered: true X-IronPort-Anti-Spam-Result: =?us-ascii?q?A0ATAgBgi2dX/5BdJa1cgz5WfQa6X4F6F?= =?us-ascii?q?wuFdQKBKDgUAQEBAQEBAWUcC4RMAQEEAQEBNzQbAgEINhAnCyUCBBOIMA6/PAE?= =?us-ascii?q?BAQEBAQQBAQEBAQEBIIYnhE2EM4VoBZh2AYYFiCSBaU6EBIhnhlCJJgEeNoNwb?= =?us-ascii?q?okGQ38BAQE?= X-IronPort-AV: E=Sophos;i="5.26,496,1459814400"; d="scan'208";a="119629162" Received: from rcdn-core-8.cisco.com ([173.37.93.144]) by rcdn-iport-2.cisco.com with ESMTP/TLS/DHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384; 20 Jun 2016 06:23:04 +0000 Received: from XCH-ALN-020.cisco.com (xch-aln-020.cisco.com [173.36.7.30]) by rcdn-core-8.cisco.com (8.14.5/8.14.5) with ESMTP id u5K6N4HO008869 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL) for ; Mon, 20 Jun 2016 06:23:04 GMT Received: from xch-rcd-019.cisco.com (173.37.102.29) by XCH-ALN-020.cisco.com (173.36.7.30) with Microsoft SMTP Server (TLS) id 15.0.1104.5; Mon, 20 Jun 2016 01:23:03 -0500 Received: from xch-rcd-019.cisco.com ([173.37.102.29]) by XCH-RCD-019.cisco.com ([173.37.102.29]) with mapi id 15.00.1104.009; Mon, 20 Jun 2016 01:23:03 -0500 From: "Vina Ermagan (vermagan)" To: "lisp@ietf.org" Thread-Topic: [lisp] I-D Action: draft-ietf-lisp-yang-02.txt Thread-Index: AQHRyrt6FY1saHnaYUeNDRfAgmUP9p/xwWWA Date: Mon, 20 Jun 2016 06:23:03 +0000 Message-ID: References: <20160620061719.22356.43620.idtracker@ietfa.amsl.com> In-Reply-To: <20160620061719.22356.43620.idtracker@ietfa.amsl.com> Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: user-agent: Microsoft-MacOutlook/14.6.0.151221 x-ms-exchange-messagesentrepresentingtype: 1 x-ms-exchange-transport-fromentityheader: Hosted x-originating-ip: [10.19.60.131] Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-ID: Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable MIME-Version: 1.0 Archived-At: Subject: Re: [lisp] I-D Action: draft-ietf-lisp-yang-02.txt X-BeenThere: lisp@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.17 Precedence: list List-Id: List for the discussion of the Locator/ID Separation Protocol List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 20 Jun 2016 06:23:18 -0000 Hi All, This update includes minor edits for coherency, including upgrading the imported draft versions for ietf-inet/yang-types. Best, Vina On 6/19/16, 11:17 PM, "lisp on behalf of internet-drafts@ietf.org" wrote: > >A New Internet-Draft is available from the on-line Internet-Drafts >directories. >This draft is a work item of the Locator/ID Separation Protocol of the >IETF. > > Title : LISP Configuration YANG Model > Authors : Vina Ermagan > Alberto Rodriguez-Natal > Florin Coras > Carl Moberg > Albert Cabellos-Aparicio > Fabio Maino > Filename : draft-ietf-lisp-yang-02.txt > Pages : 82 > Date : 2016-06-19 > >Abstract: > This document describes a YANG data model to use with the Locator/ID > Separation Protocol (LISP). > > >The IETF datatracker status page for this draft is: >https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-lisp-yang/ > >There's also a htmlized version available at: >https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-lisp-yang-02 > >A diff from the previous version is available at: >https://www.ietf.org/rfcdiff?url2=3Ddraft-ietf-lisp-yang-02 > > >Please note that it may take a couple of minutes from the time of >submission >until the htmlized version and diff are available at tools.ietf.org. > >Internet-Drafts are also available by anonymous FTP at: >ftp://ftp.ietf.org/internet-drafts/ > >_______________________________________________ >lisp mailing list >lisp@ietf.org >https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/lisp From nobody Mon Jun 20 04:51:55 2016 Return-Path: X-Original-To: lisp@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: lisp@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 16AE512D563 for ; Mon, 20 Jun 2016 04:51:54 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -15.947 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-15.947 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_HI=-5, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_H3=-0.01, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_WL=-0.01, RP_MATCHES_RCVD=-1.426, SPF_PASS=-0.001, USER_IN_DEF_DKIM_WL=-7.5] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (1024-bit key) header.d=cisco.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id gsff8LXJAhUR for ; Mon, 20 Jun 2016 04:51:53 -0700 (PDT) Received: from rcdn-iport-2.cisco.com (rcdn-iport-2.cisco.com [173.37.86.73]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher DHE-RSA-SEED-SHA (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 034E912D11C for ; Mon, 20 Jun 2016 04:51:52 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/simple; d=cisco.com; i=@cisco.com; l=299; q=dns/txt; s=iport; t=1466423513; x=1467633113; h=to:from:subject:message-id:date:mime-version: content-transfer-encoding; bh=RWYsBWB8lexrf8U711zY+6zSHypravaUIr6d84mQn+g=; b=Sqp+p2EOwoqqNrlEVoRZ11dwTIISigCGfbUD1YKFe1sUtbLKfqYlwqEN tuxTY1PO4LFNoihbq4N4/Fk3/m/7c2HvPLTb71BscqhtFTOnkpONrRSZh xybMgQoW4/8uUHNGtA84GSC1HK9+hBqNK9OdnNMIFt+d6oCcYMAJHkoJp w=; X-IronPort-Anti-Spam-Filtered: true X-IronPort-Anti-Spam-Result: =?us-ascii?q?A0CQCgDA12dX/5hdJa1dgz5WK1K4VoIPg?= =?us-ascii?q?Xoihyc6EgEBAQEBAQFlJ4R1FXYCJgJfAQwIAQGILA6vb5AWAQEBAQYCASSBAYU?= =?us-ascii?q?mgXcIig+CWgWOaYoNjiqBUwEVhFKDCoVdj3clBimEEBwyAYpHAQEB?= X-IronPort-AV: E=Sophos;i="5.26,498,1459814400"; d="scan'208";a="119722423" Received: from rcdn-core-1.cisco.com ([173.37.93.152]) by rcdn-iport-2.cisco.com with ESMTP/TLS/DHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384; 20 Jun 2016 11:51:52 +0000 Received: from [10.24.29.155] ([10.24.29.155]) by rcdn-core-1.cisco.com (8.14.5/8.14.5) with ESMTP id u5KBpn2G010251; Mon, 20 Jun 2016 11:51:51 GMT To: draft-ietf-lisp-yang@tools.ietf.org, "lisp@ietf.org" From: Benoit Claise Message-ID: <74b463ba-2a1f-1715-bcad-180ca9db0ff0@cisco.com> Date: Mon, 20 Jun 2016 04:47:05 -0700 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 6.1; WOW64; rv:45.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/45.1.1 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Archived-At: Subject: [lisp] YANG in draft-ietf-lisp-yang-02: compilation errors X-BeenThere: lisp@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.17 Precedence: list List-Id: List for the discussion of the Locator/ID Separation Protocol List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 20 Jun 2016 11:51:54 -0000 Dear draft-ietf-lisp-yang authors, You posted a new version of draft-ietf-lisp-yang. Note that, while the previous version compiled fine from YANG point, this one doesn't. See http://www.claise.be/IETFYANGPageCompilation.html Please correct this, and post a new version. Regards, Benoit From nobody Mon Jun 20 22:18:43 2016 Return-Path: X-Original-To: lisp@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: lisp@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id D77CD12D190 for ; Mon, 20 Jun 2016 22:18:41 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -15.947 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-15.947 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_HI=-5, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_H3=-0.01, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_WL=-0.01, RP_MATCHES_RCVD=-1.426, SPF_PASS=-0.001, USER_IN_DEF_DKIM_WL=-7.5] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (1024-bit key) header.d=cisco.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id KjIlYFA3HusD for ; Mon, 20 Jun 2016 22:18:40 -0700 (PDT) Received: from alln-iport-2.cisco.com (alln-iport-2.cisco.com [173.37.142.89]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher DHE-RSA-SEED-SHA (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 83BD812D155 for ; Mon, 20 Jun 2016 22:18:40 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/simple; d=cisco.com; i=@cisco.com; l=450; q=dns/txt; s=iport; t=1466486320; x=1467695920; h=from:to:subject:date:message-id:references:in-reply-to: content-id:content-transfer-encoding:mime-version; bh=cn7/OywCX5bB5lk4GoPhz7pzricEqYmxWj9kZmdvAdQ=; b=S90ZkqISxDuYRwEjtapeCRKlpPoG1nTjoWmPyILkoAp+Le8gxJzRzhdP GQZ9z+nPLENigVxaXQBM79hTS7MdgVdGSlxIRB7BnV1FtuYZ8J0yqqBny dVr5huZ00CX11IQSS8ScGvmXYyfL7h7ItC/GTWgRBhob7Y340bgvFGzKv o=; X-IronPort-Anti-Spam-Filtered: true X-IronPort-Anti-Spam-Result: =?us-ascii?q?A0A2AgDWzWhX/4gNJK1cgz5WfQa4YoIPg?= =?us-ascii?q?XoihXUCgTo4FAEBAQEBAQFlJ4RMAQEEgQkCAQhGMiUCBAESiDAOwSUBAQEBAQE?= =?us-ascii?q?EAQEBAQEihieETYobBY4tiksBjimBUwEVhFKIZ4ZQiSYBHjaDcG4BiUh/AQEB?= X-IronPort-AV: E=Sophos;i="5.26,501,1459814400"; d="scan'208";a="286504815" Received: from alln-core-3.cisco.com ([173.36.13.136]) by alln-iport-2.cisco.com with ESMTP/TLS/DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA; 21 Jun 2016 05:18:39 +0000 Received: from XCH-ALN-009.cisco.com (xch-aln-009.cisco.com [173.36.7.19]) by alln-core-3.cisco.com (8.14.5/8.14.5) with ESMTP id u5L5IdZ7020560 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Tue, 21 Jun 2016 05:18:39 GMT Received: from xch-rcd-019.cisco.com (173.37.102.29) by XCH-ALN-009.cisco.com (173.36.7.19) with Microsoft SMTP Server (TLS) id 15.0.1104.5; Tue, 21 Jun 2016 00:18:39 -0500 Received: from xch-rcd-019.cisco.com ([173.37.102.29]) by XCH-RCD-019.cisco.com ([173.37.102.29]) with mapi id 15.00.1104.009; Tue, 21 Jun 2016 00:18:39 -0500 From: "Vina Ermagan (vermagan)" To: "Benoit Claise (bclaise)" , "draft-ietf-lisp-yang@tools.ietf.org" , "lisp@ietf.org" Thread-Topic: YANG in draft-ietf-lisp-yang-02: compilation errors Thread-Index: AQHRyuoq2NaBReB/3EugVdwGloB57Z/zQV6A Date: Tue, 21 Jun 2016 05:18:39 +0000 Message-ID: References: <74b463ba-2a1f-1715-bcad-180ca9db0ff0@cisco.com> In-Reply-To: <74b463ba-2a1f-1715-bcad-180ca9db0ff0@cisco.com> Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: user-agent: Microsoft-MacOutlook/14.6.0.151221 x-ms-exchange-messagesentrepresentingtype: 1 x-ms-exchange-transport-fromentityheader: Hosted x-originating-ip: [10.19.60.131] Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-ID: Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable MIME-Version: 1.0 Archived-At: Subject: Re: [lisp] YANG in draft-ietf-lisp-yang-02: compilation errors X-BeenThere: lisp@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.17 Precedence: list List-Id: List for the discussion of the Locator/ID Separation Protocol List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 21 Jun 2016 05:18:42 -0000 Thanks Benoit. I=B9ll submit an update soon. Best, Vina On 6/20/16, 4:47 AM, "Benoit Claise (bclaise)" wrote: >Dear draft-ietf-lisp-yang authors, > >You posted a new version of draft-ietf-lisp-yang. >Note that, while the previous version compiled fine from YANG point, >this one doesn't. >See http://www.claise.be/IETFYANGPageCompilation.html >Please correct this, and post a new version. > >Regards, Benoit > From nobody Thu Jun 23 02:15:30 2016 Return-Path: X-Original-To: lisp@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: lisp@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id BF54D12DFAB for ; Thu, 23 Jun 2016 02:15:28 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -3.347 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-3.347 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_H3=-0.01, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_WL=-0.01, RP_MATCHES_RCVD=-1.426, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id L0BJ_59wgB76 for ; Thu, 23 Jun 2016 02:15:25 -0700 (PDT) Received: from ortiz.unizar.es (ortiz.unizar.es [155.210.1.52]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id A185612E0B9 for ; Thu, 23 Jun 2016 02:11:28 -0700 (PDT) Received: from usuarioPC (gtc1pc12.cps.unizar.es [155.210.158.17]) (authenticated bits=0) by ortiz.unizar.es (8.13.8/8.13.8/Debian-3) with ESMTP id u5N9BMxr010410; Thu, 23 Jun 2016 11:11:22 +0200 From: "Jose Saldana" To: Date: Thu, 23 Jun 2016 11:11:29 +0200 Message-ID: <007601d1cd2f$3a8cad70$afa60850$@unizar.es> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook 15.0 Thread-Index: AQHEbgvKUTDU0gzpl/zRjULZPpz+AQ== Content-Language: es X-Mail-Scanned: Criba 2.0 + Clamd & Bogofilter Archived-At: Cc: =?utf-8?Q?'Jos=C3=A9_Ruiz_Mas'?= Subject: [lisp] Bandwidth savings with LISP X-BeenThere: lisp@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.17 Precedence: list List-Id: List for the discussion of the Locator/ID Separation Protocol List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 23 Jun 2016 09:15:29 -0000 Hi all, As you may know, we recently submitted a draft = (https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-saldana-lisp-compress-mux/) with = a proposal allowing bandwidth and pps reductions. The idea is to send together a number of small packets, which are in the = buffer of an ITR and have the same ETR as destination, into a single = packet. Therefore, they will share a single LISP header. And this can be = combined with ROHC (header compression). We have a running implementation, based on LISPMob = (https://github.com/Simplemux/lispmob-with-simplemux), which we have = used to run some tests=20 This is a summary of the results.=20 - When small packets (100 bytes) are sent, up to 63% of throughput = increase can be observed (in our example, we pass from 550kbps to = 910kbps). - In the case of securing the LISP tunnel with IPSec, the increase can = be 935 (from 470kbps to 870kbps). You can find more detailed information in this presentation: = http://es.slideshare.net/josemariasaldana/header-compression-and-multiple= xing-in-lisp Your feedback will be highly appreciated. Best regards, The authors > -----Mensaje original----- > De: lisp [mailto:lisp-bounces@ietf.org] En nombre de Jose Saldana > Enviado el: mi=C3=A9rcoles, 04 de mayo de 2016 18:41 > Para: lisp@ietf.org > CC: 'Jose Ruiz Mas' > Asunto: [lisp] New draft posted: = draft-saldana-lisp-compress-mux-00.txt > > Hi all, > > We have just posted this draft=20 > https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-saldana-lisp- > compress-mux/. > > Header compression and multiplexing in LISP > draft-saldana-lisp-compress-mux-00 > > Abstract > > When small payloads are transmitted through a packet-switched > network, the resulting overhead may result significant. This is > stressed in the case of LISP, where a number of headers are = prepended > to a packet, as new headers have to be added to each packet. > > This document proposes to send together a number of small packets, > which are in the buffer of a ITR, having the same ETR as = destination, > into a single packet. Therefore, they will share a single LISP > header, and therefore bandwidth savings can be obtained, and a > reduction in the overall number of packets sent to the network can = be > achieved. > > A running implementation can be found here: > https://github.com/Simplemux/lispmob-with-simplemux. I has been built = as a=20 > fork of > lispmob. > > The idea is very similar to what was published in this paper: > http://diec.unizar.es/~jsaldana/personal/budapest_ICC_2013_in_proc.pdf > > Your feedback about the draft will be appreciated. > > Thanks in advance, > > Jose Saldana > Juli=C3=A1n Fern=C3=A1ndez Navajas > Jos=C3=A9 Ruiz Mas > > > -----Mensaje original----- > > De: internet-drafts@ietf.org [mailto:internet-drafts@ietf.org] = Enviado > > el: mi=C3=A9rcoles, 04 de mayo de 2016 18:20 > > Para: Jose Ruiz Mas ; Jose Saldana > > ; Julian Fernandez Navajas > > Asunto: New Version Notification for > > draft-saldana-lisp-compress-mux-00.txt > > > > > > A new version of I-D, draft-saldana-lisp-compress-mux-00.txt > > has been successfully submitted by Jose Saldana and posted to the = IETF > > repository. > > > > Name: draft-saldana-lisp-compress-mux > > Revision: 00 > > Title: Header compression and multiplexing in LISP > > Document date: 2016-05-04 > > Group: Individual Submission > > Pages: 8 > > URL:=20 > > = https://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-saldana-lisp-compress-mux- > > 00.txt > > Status:=20 > > https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-saldana-lisp-compress-mux/ > > Htmlized:=20 > > https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-saldana-lisp-compress-mux-00 > > > > > > Abstract: > > When small payloads are transmitted through a packet-switched > > network, the resulting overhead may result significant. This is > > stressed in the case of LISP, where a number of headers are = prepended > > to a packet, as new headers have to be added to each packet. > > > > This document proposes to send together a number of small = packets, > > which are in the buffer of a ITR, having the same ETR as = destination, > > into a single packet. Therefore, they will share a single LISP > > header, and therefore bandwidth savings can be obtained, and a > > reduction in the overall number of packets sent to the network = can be > > achieved. > > > > > > > > > > Please note that it may take a couple of minutes from the time of > > submission until the htmlized version and diff are available at=20 > > tools.ietf.org. > > > > The IETF Secretariat > > > _______________________________________________ > lisp mailing list > lisp@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/lisp From nobody Thu Jun 23 08:54:02 2016 Return-Path: X-Original-To: lisp@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: lisp@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2240812D18E for ; Thu, 23 Jun 2016 08:54:01 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -15.947 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-15.947 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_HI=-5, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_H4=-0.01, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_WL=-0.01, RP_MATCHES_RCVD=-1.426, SPF_PASS=-0.001, USER_IN_DEF_DKIM_WL=-7.5] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (1024-bit key) header.d=cisco.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id d7zN_bG1eQYz for ; Thu, 23 Jun 2016 08:53:51 -0700 (PDT) Received: from aer-iport-4.cisco.com (aer-iport-4.cisco.com [173.38.203.54]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher DHE-RSA-SEED-SHA (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id CD58C12D1D8 for ; Thu, 23 Jun 2016 08:53:50 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/simple; d=cisco.com; i=@cisco.com; l=5482; q=dns/txt; s=iport; t=1466697230; x=1467906830; h=message-id:date:from:mime-version:to:cc:subject: references:in-reply-to:content-transfer-encoding; bh=1e/65T3LB5jxkfw1FlDLkPRCDvuoYq4EMJZ7U85sDE4=; b=PrrUJkEZLTQjViJihCMQ6YxTGM8S7copvwP1LCa7822csGv8OxE0c3/X GbjAXGkwujEcI7K26zTgv+k/sYTS0FkiPE9yLFlXQ4f6GRS/2GHOsoCE4 MO2H6Swzpr8HGjHpYKDFp+pOQi1+UVSX6Q+8GDn99Se6yn9IDoABxfW2s g=; X-IronPort-Anti-Spam-Filtered: true X-IronPort-Anti-Spam-Result: =?us-ascii?q?A0CuBAA1BWxX/xbLJq1dFoN+fbw0Fw2Fd?= =?us-ascii?q?AKBdwEBAQEBAWYnhE0BAQICAQEBIA8BBTYKARALDgoCAgUWCAMCAgkDAgECARU?= =?us-ascii?q?fEQYBDAEFAgEBF4gVDrY3kE4BAQEBAQEBAQEBAQEBAQEBAQEBAQEcgQGFJoRNh?= =?us-ascii?q?0GCWgEEjXmLBoYIiCmBaU6EBYhoj35UggUfgU46MgGKIwEBAQ?= X-IronPort-AV: E=Sophos;i="5.26,517,1459814400"; d="scan'208";a="638174572" Received: from aer-iport-nat.cisco.com (HELO aer-core-4.cisco.com) ([173.38.203.22]) by aer-iport-4.cisco.com with ESMTP/TLS/DHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384; 23 Jun 2016 15:53:48 +0000 Received: from as-lnx.cisco.com (ams-asmirnov-nitro5.cisco.com [10.55.206.134]) (authenticated bits=0) by aer-core-4.cisco.com (8.14.5/8.14.5) with ESMTP id u5NFrmfh022375 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES128-SHA bits=128 verify=NO); Thu, 23 Jun 2016 15:53:48 GMT Message-ID: <576C060C.2070907@cisco.com> Date: Thu, 23 Jun 2016 17:53:48 +0200 From: Anton Smirnov Organization: Cisco Systems User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; Linux x86_64; rv:31.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/31.3.0 MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Jose Saldana , lisp@ietf.org References: <007601d1cd2f$3a8cad70$afa60850$@unizar.es> In-Reply-To: <007601d1cd2f$3a8cad70$afa60850$@unizar.es> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Authenticated-User: asmirnov Archived-At: Cc: =?UTF-8?B?J0pvc8OpIFJ1aXogTWFzJw==?= Subject: Re: [lisp] Bandwidth savings with LISP X-BeenThere: lisp@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.17 Precedence: list List-Id: List for the discussion of the Locator/ID Separation Protocol List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 23 Jun 2016 15:54:01 -0000 Hi Jose, there is a theoretical aspect of the work (it's curious) and then there is a practical one. For the latter one - section "Backward compatibility" is conspicuously missing from the document. On the first glance, it looks like backward compatibility of the solution was not investigated. Is this correct? Anton On 06/23/2016 11:11 AM, Jose Saldana wrote: > Hi all, > > As you may know, we recently submitted a draft (https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-saldana-lisp-compress-mux/) with a proposal allowing bandwidth and pps reductions. > > The idea is to send together a number of small packets, which are in the buffer of an ITR and have the same ETR as destination, into a single packet. Therefore, they will share a single LISP header. And this can be combined with ROHC (header compression). > > We have a running implementation, based on LISPMob (https://github.com/Simplemux/lispmob-with-simplemux), which we have used to run some tests > > This is a summary of the results. > > - When small packets (100 bytes) are sent, up to 63% of throughput increase can be observed (in our example, we pass from 550kbps to 910kbps). > > - In the case of securing the LISP tunnel with IPSec, the increase can be 935 (from 470kbps to 870kbps). > > You can find more detailed information in this presentation: http://es.slideshare.net/josemariasaldana/header-compression-and-multiplexing-in-lisp > > Your feedback will be highly appreciated. > > Best regards, > > The authors > >> -----Mensaje original----- >> De: lisp [mailto:lisp-bounces@ietf.org] En nombre de Jose Saldana >> Enviado el: miércoles, 04 de mayo de 2016 18:41 >> Para: lisp@ietf.org >> CC: 'Jose Ruiz Mas' >> Asunto: [lisp] New draft posted: draft-saldana-lisp-compress-mux-00.txt >> >> Hi all, >> >> We have just posted this draft >> https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-saldana-lisp- >> compress-mux/. >> >> Header compression and multiplexing in LISP >> draft-saldana-lisp-compress-mux-00 >> >> Abstract >> >> When small payloads are transmitted through a packet-switched >> network, the resulting overhead may result significant. This is >> stressed in the case of LISP, where a number of headers are prepended >> to a packet, as new headers have to be added to each packet. >> >> This document proposes to send together a number of small packets, >> which are in the buffer of a ITR, having the same ETR as destination, >> into a single packet. Therefore, they will share a single LISP >> header, and therefore bandwidth savings can be obtained, and a >> reduction in the overall number of packets sent to the network can be >> achieved. >> >> A running implementation can be found here: >> https://github.com/Simplemux/lispmob-with-simplemux. I has been built as a >> fork of >> lispmob. >> >> The idea is very similar to what was published in this paper: >> http://diec.unizar.es/~jsaldana/personal/budapest_ICC_2013_in_proc.pdf >> >> Your feedback about the draft will be appreciated. >> >> Thanks in advance, >> >> Jose Saldana >> Julián Fernández Navajas >> José Ruiz Mas >> >>> -----Mensaje original----- >>> De: internet-drafts@ietf.org [mailto:internet-drafts@ietf.org] Enviado >>> el: miércoles, 04 de mayo de 2016 18:20 >>> Para: Jose Ruiz Mas ; Jose Saldana >>> ; Julian Fernandez Navajas >>> Asunto: New Version Notification for >>> draft-saldana-lisp-compress-mux-00.txt >>> >>> >>> A new version of I-D, draft-saldana-lisp-compress-mux-00.txt >>> has been successfully submitted by Jose Saldana and posted to the IETF >>> repository. >>> >>> Name: draft-saldana-lisp-compress-mux >>> Revision: 00 >>> Title: Header compression and multiplexing in LISP >>> Document date: 2016-05-04 >>> Group: Individual Submission >>> Pages: 8 >>> URL: >>> https://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-saldana-lisp-compress-mux- >>> 00.txt >>> Status: >>> https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-saldana-lisp-compress-mux/ >>> Htmlized: >>> https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-saldana-lisp-compress-mux-00 >>> >>> >>> Abstract: >>> When small payloads are transmitted through a packet-switched >>> network, the resulting overhead may result significant. This is >>> stressed in the case of LISP, where a number of headers are prepended >>> to a packet, as new headers have to be added to each packet. >>> >>> This document proposes to send together a number of small packets, >>> which are in the buffer of a ITR, having the same ETR as destination, >>> into a single packet. Therefore, they will share a single LISP >>> header, and therefore bandwidth savings can be obtained, and a >>> reduction in the overall number of packets sent to the network can be >>> achieved. >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> Please note that it may take a couple of minutes from the time of >>> submission until the htmlized version and diff are available at >>> tools.ietf.org. >>> >>> The IETF Secretariat >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> lisp mailing list >> lisp@ietf.org >> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/lisp > > > _______________________________________________ > lisp mailing list > lisp@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/lisp > From nobody Fri Jun 24 00:49:21 2016 Return-Path: X-Original-To: lisp@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: lisp@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id EFBD412D197 for ; Fri, 24 Jun 2016 00:49:18 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -5.627 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-5.627 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-2.3, RP_MATCHES_RCVD=-1.426, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id Y1DlmRJ_iYZe for ; Fri, 24 Jun 2016 00:49:15 -0700 (PDT) Received: from isuela.unizar.es (isuela.unizar.es [155.210.1.53]) (using TLSv1 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-SHA (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 30D4612D10D for ; Fri, 24 Jun 2016 00:49:14 -0700 (PDT) Received: from usuarioPC (gtc1pc12.cps.unizar.es [155.210.158.17]) (authenticated bits=0) by isuela.unizar.es (8.13.8/8.13.8/Debian-3) with ESMTP id u5O7n3VV030539; Fri, 24 Jun 2016 09:49:03 +0200 From: "Jose Saldana" To: "'Anton Smirnov'" , References: <007601d1cd2f$3a8cad70$afa60850$@unizar.es> <576C060C.2070907@cisco.com> In-Reply-To: <576C060C.2070907@cisco.com> Date: Fri, 24 Jun 2016 09:49:10 +0200 Message-ID: <002e01d1cdec$e573ea10$b05bbe30$@unizar.es> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook 15.0 Thread-Index: AQJKHT5Lbw3+YrXe8XBzXtJNmCvMmwKZRBGSnvLRB2A= Content-Language: es X-Mail-Scanned: Criba 2.0 + Clamd & Bogofilter Archived-At: Cc: =?utf-8?Q?'Jos=C3=A9_Ruiz_Mas'?= Subject: Re: [lisp] Bandwidth savings with LISP X-BeenThere: lisp@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.17 Precedence: list List-Id: List for the discussion of the Locator/ID Separation Protocol List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 24 Jun 2016 07:49:19 -0000 Hi Anton, This is currently an idea to be explored. We have been able to run it, = including some tweaks in the LISPMob implementation. It includes three different options: 2.1. Basic multiplexing method=20 2.2. Multiplexing method based on Simplemux =20 2.3. Header compression and multiplexing method =20 2.1. The "Basic multiplexing method" may probably have some backward = compatibility issues. The draft says this (although this is a = preliminary idea): One of the free bits in the LISP header should be used to flag the fact that more than a single packet is included in the encapsulated one.=20 In fact, when we tested this (i.e. putting two packets instead of one = after the LISP header) in LISPMob, it worked, but it was just because = the implementation checked if there were more packets. 2.2 and 2.3 would also need some tweaks: In this case, a port number different from 4341 should be used in the UDP header preceding the LISP header, in order to indicate that the protocol inside the LISP header is not IP but Simplemux. One thing we would want to discuss in the list is if these tweaks are = easy to deploy, and/or if they are the most convenient ones. Thanks a lot for your comments, Jose=20 > -----Mensaje original----- > De: Anton Smirnov [mailto:asmirnov@cisco.com] > Enviado el: jueves, 23 de junio de 2016 17:54 > Para: Jose Saldana ; lisp@ietf.org > CC: 'Jos=C3=A9 Ruiz Mas' > Asunto: Re: [lisp] Bandwidth savings with LISP >=20 > Hi Jose, > there is a theoretical aspect of the work (it's curious) and then = there is a practical > one. For the latter one - section "Backward compatibility" is = conspicuously missing > from the document. On the first glance, it looks like backward = compatibility of the > solution was not investigated. Is this correct? >=20 > Anton >=20 >=20 > On 06/23/2016 11:11 AM, Jose Saldana wrote: > > Hi all, > > > > As you may know, we recently submitted a draft > (https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-saldana-lisp-compress-mux/) = with a proposal > allowing bandwidth and pps reductions. > > > > The idea is to send together a number of small packets, which are in = the buffer of > an ITR and have the same ETR as destination, into a single packet. = Therefore, they > will share a single LISP header. And this can be combined with ROHC = (header > compression). > > > > We have a running implementation, based on LISPMob > > (https://github.com/Simplemux/lispmob-with-simplemux), which we have > > used to run some tests > > > > This is a summary of the results. > > > > - When small packets (100 bytes) are sent, up to 63% of throughput = increase can > be observed (in our example, we pass from 550kbps to 910kbps). > > > > - In the case of securing the LISP tunnel with IPSec, the increase = can be 935 > (from 470kbps to 870kbps). > > > > You can find more detailed information in this presentation: > > = http://es.slideshare.net/josemariasaldana/header-compression-and-multi > > plexing-in-lisp > > > > Your feedback will be highly appreciated. > > > > Best regards, > > > > The authors > > > >> -----Mensaje original----- > >> De: lisp [mailto:lisp-bounces@ietf.org] En nombre de Jose Saldana > >> Enviado el: mi=C3=A9rcoles, 04 de mayo de 2016 18:41 > >> Para: lisp@ietf.org > >> CC: 'Jose Ruiz Mas' > >> Asunto: [lisp] New draft posted: > >> draft-saldana-lisp-compress-mux-00.txt > >> > >> Hi all, > >> > >> We have just posted this draft > >> https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-saldana-lisp- > >> compress-mux/. > >> > >> Header compression and multiplexing in LISP > >> draft-saldana-lisp-compress-mux-00 > >> > >> Abstract > >> > >> When small payloads are transmitted through a packet-switched > >> network, the resulting overhead may result significant. This = is > >> stressed in the case of LISP, where a number of headers are = prepended > >> to a packet, as new headers have to be added to each packet. > >> > >> This document proposes to send together a number of small = packets, > >> which are in the buffer of a ITR, having the same ETR as = destination, > >> into a single packet. Therefore, they will share a single LISP > >> header, and therefore bandwidth savings can be obtained, and a > >> reduction in the overall number of packets sent to the network = can be > >> achieved. > >> > >> A running implementation can be found here: > >> https://github.com/Simplemux/lispmob-with-simplemux. I has been = built > >> as a fork of lispmob. > >> > >> The idea is very similar to what was published in this paper: > >> = http://diec.unizar.es/~jsaldana/personal/budapest_ICC_2013_in_proc.pd > >> f > >> > >> Your feedback about the draft will be appreciated. > >> > >> Thanks in advance, > >> > >> Jose Saldana > >> Juli=C3=A1n Fern=C3=A1ndez Navajas > >> Jos=C3=A9 Ruiz Mas > >> > >>> -----Mensaje original----- > >>> De: internet-drafts@ietf.org [mailto:internet-drafts@ietf.org] > >>> Enviado > >>> el: mi=C3=A9rcoles, 04 de mayo de 2016 18:20 > >>> Para: Jose Ruiz Mas ; Jose Saldana > >>> ; Julian Fernandez Navajas > >>> Asunto: New Version Notification for > >>> draft-saldana-lisp-compress-mux-00.txt > >>> > >>> > >>> A new version of I-D, draft-saldana-lisp-compress-mux-00.txt > >>> has been successfully submitted by Jose Saldana and posted to the > >>> IETF repository. > >>> > >>> Name: draft-saldana-lisp-compress-mux > >>> Revision: 00 > >>> Title: Header compression and multiplexing in LISP > >>> Document date: 2016-05-04 > >>> Group: Individual Submission > >>> Pages: 8 > >>> URL: > >>> = https://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-saldana-lisp-compress-mux > >>> - > >>> 00.txt > >>> Status: > >>> https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-saldana-lisp-compress-mux/ > >>> Htmlized: > >>> https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-saldana-lisp-compress-mux-00 > >>> > >>> > >>> Abstract: > >>> When small payloads are transmitted through a packet-switched > >>> network, the resulting overhead may result significant. This = is > >>> stressed in the case of LISP, where a number of headers are = prepended > >>> to a packet, as new headers have to be added to each packet. > >>> > >>> This document proposes to send together a number of small = packets, > >>> which are in the buffer of a ITR, having the same ETR as = destination, > >>> into a single packet. Therefore, they will share a single = LISP > >>> header, and therefore bandwidth savings can be obtained, and a > >>> reduction in the overall number of packets sent to the network = can be > >>> achieved. > >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> Please note that it may take a couple of minutes from the time of > >>> submission until the htmlized version and diff are available at > >>> tools.ietf.org. > >>> > >>> The IETF Secretariat > >> > >> > >> _______________________________________________ > >> lisp mailing list > >> lisp@ietf.org > >> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/lisp > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > lisp mailing list > > lisp@ietf.org > > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/lisp > > From nobody Fri Jun 24 09:04:51 2016 Return-Path: X-Original-To: lisp@ietf.org Delivered-To: lisp@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from ietfa.amsl.com (localhost [IPv6:::1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7E80112DC28; Fri, 24 Jun 2016 09:00:50 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: "\"IETF Secretariat\"" To: , X-Test-IDTracker: no X-IETF-IDTracker: 6.24.0 Auto-Submitted: auto-generated Precedence: bulk Message-ID: <20160624160050.10933.73101.idtracker@ietfa.amsl.com> Date: Fri, 24 Jun 2016 09:00:50 -0700 Archived-At: Cc: lisp@ietf.org Subject: [lisp] lisp - Requested session has been scheduled for IETF 96 X-BeenThere: lisp@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.17 List-Id: List for the discussion of the Locator/ID Separation Protocol List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 24 Jun 2016 16:00:51 -0000 Dear Luigi Iannone, The session(s) that you have requested have been scheduled. Below is the scheduled session information followed by the original request. lisp Session 1 (1:30:00) Thursday, Afternoon Session II 1620-1820 Room Name: Charlottenburg I size: 80 --------------------------------------------- Request Information: --------------------------------------------------------- Working Group Name: Locator/ID Separation Protocol Area Name: Routing Area Session Requester: Luigi Iannone Number of Sessions: 1 Length of Session(s): 1.5 Hours Number of Attendees: 50 Conflicts to Avoid: First Priority: rtgwg nvo3 i2rs sidr grow sfc sdnrg nfvrg pim intarea Second Priority: mboned icnrg irtfopen idr spring bier maprg Third Priority: l2tpext bess Special Requests: --------------------------------------------------------- From nobody Mon Jun 27 03:32:04 2016 Return-Path: X-Original-To: lisp@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: lisp@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 14F7F12D18C for ; Mon, 27 Jun 2016 03:32:03 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.6 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.6 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW=-0.7, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=gigix-net.20150623.gappssmtp.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id AlxkHj-5cUSW for ; Mon, 27 Jun 2016 03:32:01 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail-wm0-x229.google.com (mail-wm0-x229.google.com [IPv6:2a00:1450:400c:c09::229]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id B7F7012D150 for ; Mon, 27 Jun 2016 03:32:00 -0700 (PDT) Received: by mail-wm0-x229.google.com with SMTP id v199so94167486wmv.0 for ; Mon, 27 Jun 2016 03:32:00 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gigix-net.20150623.gappssmtp.com; s=20150623; h=from:subject:date:references:to:message-id:mime-version; bh=qjb/ysf77gVlYuLs4KkmSY72zMOilB0Nk3j12UQkRu4=; b=uBjJgEQJ9tUe42FK3fOgj2p4holAHAICOn2hoVObL9GHiIeMwn3j9z2sTSK4VeW7wW qSB1YT+fYhusjDA/EzBNofxp8IJcT9varTjEoop0CIysOCHXZ0V14Ws5M6hRVkN69Oxw ZS+QfFIyrac+7Hqb3/XUQVurep5GA1AnDkDErcqMTgi//uPAO4QLVgm64mN3Jf4sLvoJ F3tBWvg2aBmgkKMGo3obOVSxme5lQMCuL7JZs21HugcxbUxyTcMEHKm2uU39tgnXL429 ycyrGNsGZWWuXbnM5wZARSWelIVRvAk59SE0ZzhFgC54ZHjWrqUcFZsEO1tKkCSUDn3E upRw== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20130820; h=x-gm-message-state:from:subject:date:references:to:message-id :mime-version; bh=qjb/ysf77gVlYuLs4KkmSY72zMOilB0Nk3j12UQkRu4=; b=WBPKWav6ZmGh2Ek+2SMK3jYdXw41NBNRrdoWM1heK+W4vG9tj5ugDErR5HihpINYIa 2g9iSTcd847NkpwQ3boBsKaXmGmYenXZqgbkw7EUbr4zA9iTaBUzjCHv3PHA838zJFMH HVXf1ViULNWe7U/cYviCmbLS0GJ8+ZM56yfEZ/tzkAnkpdb4dkz5H4Vyi0IEuRt9AmK+ 9p1rp/TxQai1EfEL6w05QDomNzPas151fraUaMTRrzdbU7JAN7f27aCtktNEtxA+73Bb IlZTycc97LOlhAADIFSSABHRLyIfEtI8empzLSBkV1Qz/Qj5UCAChhP8fxSAYE7WL2wv eq4A== X-Gm-Message-State: ALyK8tIQ7TJRc0How5XcAOMA6ENWyDsNhKMUfpmkw66BtDr7nzgTZ+qTEBLYaJCnkNiH+Q== X-Received: by 10.28.18.203 with SMTP id 194mr6763162wms.75.1467023519155; Mon, 27 Jun 2016 03:31:59 -0700 (PDT) Received: from ?IPv6:2001:660:330f:a4:c1e8:769b:af36:4be2? ([2001:660:330f:a4:c1e8:769b:af36:4be2]) by smtp.gmail.com with ESMTPSA id e5sm4751186wjj.10.2016.06.27.03.31.57 for (version=TLS1 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-AES128-SHA bits=128/128); Mon, 27 Jun 2016 03:31:57 -0700 (PDT) From: Luigi Iannone Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="Apple-Mail=_360FEC98-E5D0-44C4-B778-FB20D2B48E06" Date: Mon, 27 Jun 2016 12:31:57 +0200 References: <20160624160050.10933.73101.idtracker@ietfa.amsl.com> To: LISP mailing list list Message-Id: <351B04BD-0901-4AB1-82F7-23EA1DBD1A31@gigix.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 9.3 \(3124\)) X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.3124) Archived-At: Subject: [lisp] Call for Agenda items for IETF 96 X-BeenThere: lisp@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.17 Precedence: list List-Id: List for the discussion of the Locator/ID Separation Protocol List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 27 Jun 2016 10:32:03 -0000 --Apple-Mail=_360FEC98-E5D0-44C4-B778-FB20D2B48E06 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Hi All, We have a time slot during the next IETF in Berlin so it is time to fix = the agenda for our WG. The LISP WG is scheduled to meet on Thursday, July 21st, 2016, from = 16:20 to 18:20 (2 hours) Please send your requests for agenda items (Presenter=E2=80=99s name, = ppt title, slot duration)=20 to lisp-chairs@tools.ietf.org by = Friday 8th July, 2016. Thanks Joel & Luigi > Begin forwarded message: >=20 > From: "\"IETF Secretariat\"" > Subject: lisp - Requested session has been scheduled for IETF 96 > Date: 24 June 2016 at 18:00:50 GMT+2 > To: , > Cc: lisp@ietf.org, db3546@att.com >=20 > Dear Luigi Iannone, >=20 > The session(s) that you have requested have been scheduled. > Below is the scheduled session information followed by > the original request.=20 >=20 > lisp Session 1 (1:30:00) > Thursday, Afternoon Session II 1620-1820 > Room Name: Charlottenburg I size: 80 > --------------------------------------------- >=20 >=20 >=20 > Request Information: >=20 >=20 > --------------------------------------------------------- > Working Group Name: Locator/ID Separation Protocol > Area Name: Routing Area > Session Requester: Luigi Iannone >=20 > Number of Sessions: 1 > Length of Session(s): 1.5 Hours > Number of Attendees: 50 > Conflicts to Avoid:=20 > First Priority: rtgwg nvo3 i2rs sidr grow sfc sdnrg nfvrg pim intarea > Second Priority: mboned icnrg irtfopen idr spring bier maprg > Third Priority: l2tpext bess >=20 >=20 > Special Requests: >=20 > --------------------------------------------------------- >=20 --Apple-Mail=_360FEC98-E5D0-44C4-B778-FB20D2B48E06 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/html; charset=utf-8
Hi All,

We = have a time slot during the next IETF in Berlin so it is time to fix = the agenda for our WG.
The LISP WG  is scheduled = to meet on Thursday, July 21st, 2016, from 16:20 to 18:20 (2 = hours)

Please send your requests for = agenda items (Presenter=E2=80=99s name, ppt title, slot = duration) 
to lisp-chairs@tools.ietf.org by Friday 8th July, = 2016.

Thanks

Joel & = Luigi

Begin forwarded message:

From: = "\"IETF Secretariat\"" <agenda@ietf.org>
Subject: = lisp - Requested = session has been scheduled for IETF 96
Date: = 24 June 2016 at 18:00:50 = GMT+2
To: = <ggx@gigix.net>, <lisp-chairs@ietf.org>
Cc: lisp@ietf.org, db3546@att.com

Dear Luigi Iannone,

The session(s) that you have requested have = been scheduled.
Below is the scheduled session information = followed by
the original request.

lisp Session 1 (1:30:00)
=    Thursday, Afternoon Session II 1620-1820
=    Room Name: Charlottenburg I size: 80
=    ---------------------------------------------



Request = Information:


---------------------------------------------------------
Working Group Name: Locator/ID Separation Protocol
Area Name: Routing Area
Session Requester: = Luigi Iannone

Number of Sessions: 1
Length of Session(s):  1.5 Hours
Number of = Attendees: 50
Conflicts to Avoid:
First = Priority: rtgwg nvo3 i2rs sidr grow sfc sdnrg nfvrg pim intarea
Second Priority: mboned icnrg irtfopen idr spring bier = maprg
Third Priority: l2tpext bess


Special Requests:

---------------------------------------------------------


= --Apple-Mail=_360FEC98-E5D0-44C4-B778-FB20D2B48E06-- From nobody Mon Jun 27 07:32:22 2016 Return-Path: X-Original-To: lisp@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: lisp@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id BB19D12B064 for ; Mon, 27 Jun 2016 07:32:20 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.699 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.699 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW=-0.7, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=gmail.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id ueqGgftfuMyl for ; Mon, 27 Jun 2016 07:32:18 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail-oi0-x233.google.com (mail-oi0-x233.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:4003:c06::233]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 77FD312D5E3 for ; Mon, 27 Jun 2016 07:31:13 -0700 (PDT) Received: by mail-oi0-x233.google.com with SMTP id u201so202539379oie.0 for ; Mon, 27 Jun 2016 07:31:13 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20120113; h=mime-version:from:date:message-id:subject:to; bh=jA/0jmC0LtEufX+fD+zVmJlgLyIhRaAzmda22ngRBO0=; b=QVDkcH9IEWAIvPznuBuIPtnBemaHrXeScYTm8wTORQQLDTILZiuFNXNNt1DtEN2Es1 vo/UyRKJQVDlh/KskQeg4KdCZzJTJR2HjEJwmYNJ9ukdgPk69X9zaI099azIalyJdBAU i4a7ud8HOpVA2p9EgYCKvFP6blvplrPZJlbSXhpOr3Zt8Xr0jAZtWWaotBJIcOhghacp lAHgx2U8GvfPMG1SvHJdvF/c7ab0tnBzkp1kLUB8uYe6OAtBJsXe1dsAVCuJ4grOKeAK OkWURPKIGE7ATVaH68CKJkSXuGrQHNdSAw4y+65VrhISlzAtHgxoeCUrSqN0p7AQU/ja N2kQ== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20130820; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:from:date:message-id:subject:to; bh=jA/0jmC0LtEufX+fD+zVmJlgLyIhRaAzmda22ngRBO0=; b=L9gKwq4Fw1MPkkLIB1wnDr7+CUJVgm3kYw4gnYGpNQKA8uMy3wLFPo0I6N9AZ4nh97 NHC6jOe2bF0vTzD5Ft69I/2PGKrvB0kTABCoIEEJ0tx6AftprsU/8YzjReTb+CLP2mwC 8PnZJeyXVQeN5nrRZ/pOFYO3mJ9ydtrm13X+phmEHIADyE2aMWI7qBxg09s+mYr+H+6W XPsldcqnQIMAWwvsW1togTk6hnc3sAh0PuTQHYkSosU+1MVK/TCrkx+qZTjUrlsO6JKJ UNA3xWFsbAxyALmbzuGCVwhyqIc/nDDWAP9kFoMpHbDO/TaOFT+0aAkpObl2zwKexzH5 vISg== X-Gm-Message-State: ALyK8tKJCAJZx9Y+j4R3ckuCkFPkVC7pyWD/vzrugHqIRXbyixnV5cGEsdDtjBZbFewKZ7/eyoAU0dk5jbhIFg== X-Received: by 10.157.8.46 with SMTP id 43mr747199oty.89.1467037852063; Mon, 27 Jun 2016 07:30:52 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.202.104.6 with HTTP; Mon, 27 Jun 2016 07:30:51 -0700 (PDT) From: Yue LI Date: Mon, 27 Jun 2016 16:30:51 +0200 Message-ID: To: lisp@ietf.org Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=94eb2c039f880b5e0a0536435ee2 Archived-At: Subject: [lisp] Ask for a slot about LISP measurement presentation on IETF 96 X-BeenThere: lisp@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.17 Precedence: list List-Id: List for the discussion of the Locator/ID Separation Protocol List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 27 Jun 2016 14:32:21 -0000 --94eb2c039f880b5e0a0536435ee2 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Hello, I have some general measurement results on LISP Map Resolvers. May I ask for a slot of 15 minutes to present the works on the LISP session of IETF 96? Thank you. Best regards, Yue -- Yue LI PhD student, Telecom ParisTech Tel: +33 (0)661091840 E-mail: yue.li@telecom-paristech.fr --94eb2c039f880b5e0a0536435ee2 Content-Type: text/html; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Hello,

I have some general measurement = results on LISP Map Resolvers.
May I ask for a slot of 15 minutes= to present the works on the LISP session of IETF 96?
Thank you.<= /div>

Best regards,
Yue
--
Yu= e LI
PhD student, Telecom ParisTech
Tel: +33 (0)661091840
=
--94eb2c039f880b5e0a0536435ee2-- From nobody Mon Jun 27 10:20:11 2016 Return-Path: X-Original-To: lisp@ietf.org Delivered-To: lisp@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from ietfa.amsl.com (localhost [IPv6:::1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5458612D0A8; Mon, 27 Jun 2016 10:20:06 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: internet-drafts@ietf.org To: X-Test-IDTracker: no X-IETF-IDTracker: 6.24.0 Auto-Submitted: auto-generated Precedence: bulk Message-ID: <20160627172006.5383.90706.idtracker@ietfa.amsl.com> Date: Mon, 27 Jun 2016 10:20:06 -0700 Archived-At: Cc: lisp@ietf.org Subject: [lisp] I-D Action: draft-ietf-lisp-crypto-05.txt X-BeenThere: lisp@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.17 List-Id: List for the discussion of the Locator/ID Separation Protocol List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 27 Jun 2016 17:20:06 -0000 A New Internet-Draft is available from the on-line Internet-Drafts directories. This draft is a work item of the Locator/ID Separation Protocol of the IETF. Title : LISP Data-Plane Confidentiality Authors : Dino Farinacci Brian Weis Filename : draft-ietf-lisp-crypto-05.txt Pages : 18 Date : 2016-06-27 Abstract: This document describes a mechanism for encrypting LISP encapsulated traffic. The design describes how key exchange is achieved using existing LISP control-plane mechanisms as well as how to secure the LISP data-plane from third-party surveillance attacks. The IETF datatracker status page for this draft is: https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-lisp-crypto/ There's also a htmlized version available at: https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-lisp-crypto-05 A diff from the previous version is available at: https://www.ietf.org/rfcdiff?url2=draft-ietf-lisp-crypto-05 Please note that it may take a couple of minutes from the time of submission until the htmlized version and diff are available at tools.ietf.org. Internet-Drafts are also available by anonymous FTP at: ftp://ftp.ietf.org/internet-drafts/ From nobody Mon Jun 27 14:30:21 2016 Return-Path: X-Original-To: lisp@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: lisp@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6EF3412D98C for ; Mon, 27 Jun 2016 14:30:20 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.051 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.051 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, HTML_IMAGE_ONLY_16=1.092, HTML_IMAGE_RATIO_04=0.556, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW=-0.7, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=no autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=gmail.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id P0odfmIiPeQo for ; Mon, 27 Jun 2016 14:30:18 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail-pf0-x233.google.com (mail-pf0-x233.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:400e:c00::233]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id ADCFA12D98E for ; Mon, 27 Jun 2016 14:29:58 -0700 (PDT) Received: by mail-pf0-x233.google.com with SMTP id c2so65519473pfa.2 for ; Mon, 27 Jun 2016 14:29:58 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20120113; h=from:subject:date:message-id:cc:to:mime-version; bh=rHB16I9/EJGHwrfYBLP7ngC3275THhcPBCsnlLExeOY=; b=d+dec5wolO/TQocsFphyyDYSqv2JUkdc3FLuM8vEBEDZI8I2bN6SOsB2HQv+5x5q65 0Bh8eAdnLjoWkOJu5xC+62z6tazGEgz9Jnq03PIPdK3DlFezsixb9Y6JmQo9ZBohgE7L rmN/56gGqhnSGovgZzcqq5dGFXppwNsQJMI/0MHqZoWeKE3lqwTarwwWx3WPEyoCl/Ac Yk/BiJnLjPrJuiO6WWq9MGAeKiQEkB6bETKK6cKLmPvM0sJ2D41+Wh+PL7DwNHsvUYC7 2LIFRE1lGHdbI5KPLEauE9iM2JnLUa2Y2BlN+rWbxLkJk45SLNDAvvVXlSNczvih1Uzs iAdg== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20130820; h=x-gm-message-state:from:subject:date:message-id:cc:to:mime-version; bh=rHB16I9/EJGHwrfYBLP7ngC3275THhcPBCsnlLExeOY=; b=B7xLtT+VeW8luykb0prAVLVLkRAvOrAJYzu+nAq8pz9fG0FQNcBToMWGbitTOMmCPC 3VEgstD0vT/DHlV7cI/HgN/ngcdnO2zOYjGEulG2rKNPO4EWmnnbmhg3VhR8BQzhwkFb hGcj97GYxRaeZbTCm9RS4bvxOg892XBJDMIE/8Oyz8iRl/5oawy8qUjkM7kvCfxFmbaO usT3dwG5qKnBS20iTUz56Z0kW83qLGl9QAOVC0mibWyrL96FJmP70Ri7zv5hSN4OjcWp xIZX8kNZ3MFOMJM6fkngVMu5iNRQuA9NpiULfRFRLQVpwAQmc1OckE07c87nmq+gCUDQ wFIg== X-Gm-Message-State: ALyK8tJLeYgHA8BZpD3YphKfqCfHIed+X0V6O4BsUM32Yyg7aYCEqC0D38AJgEAbZol/9g== X-Received: by 10.98.10.25 with SMTP id s25mr37704100pfi.44.1467062998181; Mon, 27 Jun 2016 14:29:58 -0700 (PDT) Received: from [172.18.20.135] (adsl-76-254-34-70.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net. [76.254.34.70]) by smtp.gmail.com with ESMTPSA id k74sm1371252pfk.78.2016.06.27.14.29.55 (version=TLS1 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-AES128-SHA bits=128/128); Mon, 27 Jun 2016 14:29:57 -0700 (PDT) From: Dino Farinacci Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="Apple-Mail=_3577BBEA-2AC2-4849-B67C-8E2BFC461F4D" Date: Mon, 27 Jun 2016 14:30:35 -0700 Message-Id: <74BBACBD-FC2D-4265-9C40-B02DF5C5675A@gmail.com> To: mohamed.boucadair@orange.com, JACQUENET Christian IMT/OLN Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 9.3 \(3124\)) X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.3124) Archived-At: Cc: LISP mailing list list Subject: [lisp] Brief comments to draft-boucadair-lisp-type-iana-01 X-BeenThere: lisp@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.17 Precedence: list List-Id: List for the discussion of the Locator/ID Separation Protocol List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 27 Jun 2016 21:30:20 -0000 --Apple-Mail=_3577BBEA-2AC2-4849-B67C-8E2BFC461F4D Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Mohamed/Christian, some minor comments. I think adding a new type so we can define new types is a good idea. But = I would not call the subtype =E2=80=9CExperiment ID=E2=80=9D because we = may want to allocate values for real production use. So I suggest just = calling the field =E2=80=9Csub-type=E2=80=9D. I would add packet types that not have been defined in RFC6830 (but will = go into RFC6830bis) which are in use today in several implementations. = That is Map-Notify-Ack, Info-Request, and Info-Reply. I would also change =E2=80=9CLISP Experimental Message=E2=80=9D to = =E2=80=9CLISP Extension Types=E2=80=9D. Thanks, Dino --Apple-Mail=_3577BBEA-2AC2-4849-B67C-8E2BFC461F4D Content-Type: multipart/related; type="text/html"; boundary="Apple-Mail=_E8B127D7-65D1-4B4C-A0E2-7244FC78ED9B" --Apple-Mail=_E8B127D7-65D1-4B4C-A0E2-7244FC78ED9B Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/html; charset=utf-8 Mohamed/Christian, some minor comments.


I think adding a new type so we can = define new types is a good idea. But I would not call the subtype = =E2=80=9CExperiment ID=E2=80=9D because we may want to allocate values = for real production use. So I suggest just calling the field = =E2=80=9Csub-type=E2=80=9D.


I would add packet types = that not have been defined in RFC6830 (but will go into RFC6830bis) = which are in use today in several implementations. That is = Map-Notify-Ack, Info-Request, and Info-Reply.

I would also change =E2=80=9CLISP = Experimental Message=E2=80=9D to =E2=80=9CLISP Extension = Types=E2=80=9D.

Thanks,
Dino


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ESMTP id E90E812DB7B for ; Tue, 28 Jun 2016 02:16:59 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.6 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.6 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW=-0.7, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=gigix-net.20150623.gappssmtp.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 7P8G7N9VYPdT for ; Tue, 28 Jun 2016 02:16:58 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail-wm0-x229.google.com (mail-wm0-x229.google.com [IPv6:2a00:1450:400c:c09::229]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id CD16812DB54 for ; Tue, 28 Jun 2016 02:16:57 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 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([2001:660:330f:a4:e14f:d979:ea28:1bd3]) by smtp.gmail.com with ESMTPSA id ej9sm1540725wjd.7.2016.06.28.02.16.54 (version=TLS1 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-AES128-SHA bits=128/128); Tue, 28 Jun 2016 02:16:54 -0700 (PDT) Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="Apple-Mail=_9C064BC5-E106-4164-AF94-7505CBA9BA77" Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 9.3 \(3124\)) From: Luigi Iannone In-Reply-To: Date: Tue, 28 Jun 2016 11:17:00 +0200 Message-Id: <4BC3EF89-9412-467F-80FD-F1A929849939@gigix.net> References: To: Yue LI X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.3124) Archived-At: Cc: lisp@ietf.org Subject: Re: [lisp] Ask for a slot about LISP measurement presentation on IETF 96 X-BeenThere: lisp@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.17 Precedence: list List-Id: List for the discussion of the Locator/ID Separation Protocol List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 28 Jun 2016 09:17:00 -0000 --Apple-Mail=_9C064BC5-E106-4164-AF94-7505CBA9BA77 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Requested noted=20 thanks L. > On 27 Jun 2016, at 16:30, Yue LI wrote: >=20 > Hello, >=20 > I have some general measurement results on LISP Map Resolvers. > May I ask for a slot of 15 minutes to present the works on the LISP = session of IETF 96? > Thank you. >=20 > Best regards, > Yue > --=20 > Yue LI > PhD student, Telecom ParisTech > Tel: +33 (0)661091840 > E-mail: yue.li@telecom-paristech.fr = ______________________________________= _________ > lisp mailing list > lisp@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/lisp --Apple-Mail=_9C064BC5-E106-4164-AF94-7505CBA9BA77 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/html; charset=us-ascii Requested noted 

thanks

L.

On 27 Jun 2016, at 16:30, Yue = LI <yueli.cnfr@gmail.com> wrote:

Hello,

I = have some general measurement results on LISP Map Resolvers.
May I ask for a slot of 15 minutes to present the works on = the LISP session of IETF 96?
Thank you.

Best regards,
Yue
--
Yue LI
PhD student, Telecom = ParisTech
Tel: +33 (0)661091840
E-mail: yue.li@telecom-paristech.fr
_______________________________________________
lisp = mailing list
lisp@ietf.org
https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/lisp

= --Apple-Mail=_9C064BC5-E106-4164-AF94-7505CBA9BA77-- From nobody Tue Jun 28 02:38:22 2016 Return-Path: X-Original-To: lisp@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: lisp@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 327F512DC43 for ; Tue, 28 Jun 2016 02:38:21 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.6 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.6 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW=-0.7, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=gigix-net.20150623.gappssmtp.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id CtmAgFSg1ixt for ; Tue, 28 Jun 2016 02:38:19 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail-wm0-x229.google.com (mail-wm0-x229.google.com [IPv6:2a00:1450:400c:c09::229]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id C20FF12DC45 for ; Tue, 28 Jun 2016 02:37:27 -0700 (PDT) Received: by mail-wm0-x229.google.com with SMTP id r201so18678856wme.1 for ; Tue, 28 Jun 2016 02:37:27 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gigix-net.20150623.gappssmtp.com; s=20150623; h=from:subject:date:message-id:cc:to:mime-version; bh=uZdSqAcgVTKRa2zYUDCZS280Wh+3ZA2TLW+KZUdU6Uk=; b=xe7atdO4AVXbAycANLaLlU1q45PBEe2ViMFFOyG4P/H6fbcqygaCXUPpIk2MvyO14H 8BlMG9CtLvpUnRNt13kgbIqE50cPyY07U53hXu1BBnY1EcvY2d+ECLPQ0J8YjoyTWxxB uC2ee1gOPzSX5p5GQwpJ7TEI2SElheK6ZHf+lb/rB6EPZPKgIhs7vKXdrlfWtFEsojsS thw/YFBDg/R++/Cg3vESCEefpSdp7d1tCv6cKKIfh6MkT4TZkTo78mKS1ZKDuolV2Yd6 pkYX1OR2Q7zdKssoDG2Wpl3h0WQcpSglp3bhbUAhGdG09dOb0AMhb0ZVIzuy8XMNKJCT 09GA== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20130820; h=x-gm-message-state:from:subject:date:message-id:cc:to:mime-version; bh=uZdSqAcgVTKRa2zYUDCZS280Wh+3ZA2TLW+KZUdU6Uk=; b=HHZgfR+OND9/XtWn31Uod7JUZtcMlHgxaRryBwkrpusIEXoNTzwfcpvDZ/HKlr5Cy/ A+klSfZC73ezfSb1NGuT7ErtiKxMULV/WZE3b++8Ez2mMh1y1xKe/TWVgA2nnb/fpNfS e+amVVy8Qm6oEOjWrqPa0TrWsIEQQCQ5XoodtWExuRNntXD1STRoYTP7AghYfSNYY/mq kPstcet4olbZ8aNBgdN41s72vspPcH7mMXc1MYc9WQWPIYONtm0sOAVJZcZeL3LnMVgt JkdunZ6HTG8J92ethFKLBkEcpIO9YJGQbi5ZodgbgMmN9LHKOE5KdZ9QEfzF+aWRztdc dRbg== X-Gm-Message-State: ALyK8tJrhgxhheb5jppTia/dNVhCVpARXVYWtPfiChc4ubAM2Ps/BF8Ss6MwLZDesRFR0Q== X-Received: by 10.28.0.130 with SMTP id 124mr15518649wma.23.1467106646290; Tue, 28 Jun 2016 02:37:26 -0700 (PDT) Received: from ?IPv6:2001:660:330f:a4:e14f:d979:ea28:1bd3? ([2001:660:330f:a4:e14f:d979:ea28:1bd3]) by smtp.gmail.com with ESMTPSA id bf5sm5656767wjc.12.2016.06.28.02.37.24 (version=TLS1 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-AES128-SHA bits=128/128); Tue, 28 Jun 2016 02:37:24 -0700 (PDT) From: Luigi Iannone Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="Apple-Mail=_0B585C9C-8702-410E-92E2-071928D4117E" Date: Tue, 28 Jun 2016 11:37:30 +0200 Message-Id: <4A2C0466-F1E3-45B8-BDFC-9486DA6E9477@gigix.net> To: LISP mailing list list Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 9.3 \(3124\)) X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.3124) Archived-At: Cc: Damien Saucez Subject: [lisp] Call for adoption of draft-boucadair-lisp-type-iana-01 X-BeenThere: lisp@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.17 Precedence: list List-Id: List for the discussion of the Locator/ID Separation Protocol List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 28 Jun 2016 09:38:21 -0000 --Apple-Mail=_0B585C9C-8702-410E-92E2-071928D4117E Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Folks, The chairs received a request for the following document to be adopted as a WG item: https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-boucadair-lisp-type-iana-01 Here starts a 14 day call for adoption, this call will end on Tuesday the 12th July, 2016. Please email the WG list stating whether or not you support acceptance. If you email to support the acceptance of this document as a WG item, = please also indicate if you are able and willing to either contribute to, or = review, (or both) the draft. Sitting in silence does not indicate support, please respond = appropriately. The Chairs Joel & Luigi --Apple-Mail=_0B585C9C-8702-410E-92E2-071928D4117E Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/html; charset=us-ascii Folks,

The = chairs received a request for the following document to be
adopted as a WG item:

https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-boucadair-lisp-type-iana-01

Here starts a 14 day call for = adoption, this call will end on
Tuesday the 12th July, = 2016.

Please email the WG list stating = whether or not you support acceptance.

If = you email to support the acceptance of this document as a WG item, = please
also indicate if you are able and willing to either = contribute to, or review, (or both) the draft.

Sitting in silence does not indicate support, please respond = appropriately.


The Chairs
Joel = & Luigi

= --Apple-Mail=_0B585C9C-8702-410E-92E2-071928D4117E-- From nobody Tue Jun 28 04:19:06 2016 Return-Path: X-Original-To: lisp@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: lisp@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 82F8912DDE2 for ; Tue, 28 Jun 2016 04:19:04 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.618 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.618 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW=-0.7, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_H3=-0.01, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_WL=-0.01, SPF_PASS=-0.001, UNPARSEABLE_RELAY=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id qb_xoCe6URR2 for ; Tue, 28 Jun 2016 04:19:02 -0700 (PDT) Received: from relais-inet.francetelecom.com (relais-ias92.francetelecom.com [193.251.215.92]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher AECDH-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 9221012DDE8 for ; Tue, 28 Jun 2016 04:19:00 -0700 (PDT) Received: from omfedm07.si.francetelecom.fr (unknown [xx.xx.xx.3]) by omfedm14.si.francetelecom.fr (ESMTP service) with ESMTP id E1CB122C730; Tue, 28 Jun 2016 13:18:58 +0200 (CEST) Received: from Exchangemail-eme2.itn.ftgroup (unknown [10.114.31.18]) by omfedm07.si.francetelecom.fr (ESMTP service) with ESMTP id BE7AD4C07E; Tue, 28 Jun 2016 13:18:58 +0200 (CEST) Received: from OPEXCLILMA3.corporate.adroot.infra.ftgroup ([fe80::60a9:abc3:86e6:2541]) by OPEXCLILM34.corporate.adroot.infra.ftgroup ([fe80::cba:56d0:a732:ef5a%19]) with mapi id 14.03.0294.000; Tue, 28 Jun 2016 13:18:58 +0200 From: To: Luigi Iannone , LISP mailing list list Thread-Topic: [lisp] Call for adoption of draft-boucadair-lisp-type-iana-01 Thread-Index: AQHR0SDRy4PNvhUJQEyAGVymq8wmap/+utrw Date: Tue, 28 Jun 2016 11:18:58 +0000 Message-ID: <24421_1467112738_57725D22_24421_6687_1_88132E969123D14D9BD844E1CD516EDE13094BB0@OPEXCLILMA3.corporate.adroot.infra.ftgroup> References: <4A2C0466-F1E3-45B8-BDFC-9486DA6E9477@gigix.net> In-Reply-To: <4A2C0466-F1E3-45B8-BDFC-9486DA6E9477@gigix.net> Accept-Language: fr-FR, en-US Content-Language: fr-FR X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-originating-ip: [10.168.234.5] Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="_000_88132E969123D14D9BD844E1CD516EDE13094BB0OPEXCLILMA3corp_" MIME-Version: 1.0 X-PMX-Version: 6.2.1.2478543, Antispam-Engine: 2.7.2.2107409, Antispam-Data: 2016.6.28.104517 Archived-At: Cc: Damien Saucez Subject: Re: [lisp] Call for adoption of draft-boucadair-lisp-type-iana-01 X-BeenThere: lisp@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.17 Precedence: list List-Id: List for the discussion of the Locator/ID Separation Protocol List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 28 Jun 2016 11:19:04 -0000 --_000_88132E969123D14D9BD844E1CD516EDE13094BB0OPEXCLILMA3corp_ Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hello LISPers, I support the adoption of draft-boucadair-lisp-type-iana as a lisp WG docum= ent (being one of the authors). Cheers, Christian. De : lisp [mailto:lisp-bounces@ietf.org] De la part de Luigi Iannone Envoy=E9 : mardi 28 juin 2016 11:38 =C0 : LISP mailing list list Cc : Damien Saucez Objet : [lisp] Call for adoption of draft-boucadair-lisp-type-iana-01 Folks, The chairs received a request for the following document to be adopted as a WG item: https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-boucadair-lisp-type-iana-01 Here starts a 14 day call for adoption, this call will end on Tuesday the 12th July, 2016. Please email the WG list stating whether or not you support acceptance. If you email to support the acceptance of this document as a WG item, please also indicate if you are able and willing to either contribute to, or revie= w, (or both) the draft. Sitting in silence does not indicate support, please respond appropriately. The Chairs Joel & Luigi ___________________________________________________________________________= ______________________________________________ Ce message et ses pieces jointes peuvent contenir des informations confiden= tielles ou privilegiees et ne doivent donc pas etre diffuses, exploites ou copies sans autorisation. Si vous avez recu= ce message par erreur, veuillez le signaler a l'expediteur et le detruire ainsi que les pieces jointes. Les messages el= ectroniques etant susceptibles d'alteration, Orange decline toute responsabilite si ce message a ete altere, deforme ou = falsifie. Merci. This message and its attachments may contain confidential or privileged inf= ormation that may be protected by law; they should not be distributed, used or copied without authorisation. If you have received this email in error, please notify the sender and dele= te this message and its attachments. As emails may be altered, Orange is not liable for messages that have been = modified, changed or falsified. Thank you. --_000_88132E969123D14D9BD844E1CD516EDE13094BB0OPEXCLILMA3corp_ Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

Hello LISPers,

 

I support the adoption of draft-boucadair-li= sp-type-iana as a lisp WG document (being one of the authors).

 

Cheers,

 

Christian.

 

De : lisp [mailto:lisp-bounces@ietf.org] De la part de Luigi Iannone
Envoy=E9 : mardi 28 juin 2016 11:38
=C0 : LISP mailing list list
Cc : Damien Saucez
Objet : [lisp] Call for adoption of draft-boucadair-lisp-type-i= ana-01

 

Folks,

 


Here starts a 14 day call for adoption, this call will end on
Tuesday the 12th July, 2016.

Please email the WG list stating whether or not you support acceptance.

If you email to support the acceptance of this document as a WG item, pleas= e
also indicate if you are able and willing to either contribute to, or = review, (or both) the draft.

Sitting in silence does not indicate support, please respond appropriately.=

 

The Chairs

Joel & Luigi

 

______________________________________________________________________=
___________________________________________________

Ce message et ses pieces jointes peuvent contenir des informations confiden=
tielles ou privilegiees et ne doivent donc
pas etre diffuses, exploites ou copies sans autorisation. Si vous avez recu=
 ce message par erreur, veuillez le signaler
a l'expediteur et le detruire ainsi que les pieces jointes. Les messages el=
ectroniques etant susceptibles d'alteration,
Orange decline toute responsabilite si ce message a ete altere, deforme ou =
falsifie. Merci.

This message and its attachments may contain confidential or privileged inf=
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Thank you.
--_000_88132E969123D14D9BD844E1CD516EDE13094BB0OPEXCLILMA3corp_-- From nobody Tue Jun 28 05:36:05 2016 Return-Path: X-Original-To: lisp@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: lisp@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 92C4F12DE72 for ; Tue, 28 Jun 2016 05:36:04 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.618 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.618 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW=-0.7, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_H3=-0.01, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_WL=-0.01, SPF_PASS=-0.001, UNPARSEABLE_RELAY=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id XI2OiIfhxcO4 for ; Tue, 28 Jun 2016 05:36:02 -0700 (PDT) Received: from relais-inet.francetelecom.com (relais-ias91.francetelecom.com [193.251.215.91]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher AECDH-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id AA91B12DE6E for ; Tue, 28 Jun 2016 05:36:01 -0700 (PDT) Received: from omfedm05.si.francetelecom.fr (unknown [xx.xx.xx.1]) by omfedm13.si.francetelecom.fr (ESMTP service) with ESMTP id C74B7324517; Tue, 28 Jun 2016 14:35:59 +0200 (CEST) Received: from Exchangemail-eme2.itn.ftgroup (unknown [10.114.31.17]) by omfedm05.si.francetelecom.fr (ESMTP service) with ESMTP id 9C23735C06C; Tue, 28 Jun 2016 14:35:59 +0200 (CEST) Received: from OPEXCLILMA3.corporate.adroot.infra.ftgroup ([fe80::60a9:abc3:86e6:2541]) by OPEXCLILM24.corporate.adroot.infra.ftgroup ([fe80::a1e6:3e6a:1f68:5f7e%19]) with mapi id 14.03.0294.000; Tue, 28 Jun 2016 14:35:59 +0200 From: To: Luigi Iannone , LISP mailing list list Thread-Topic: [lisp] Call for adoption of draft-boucadair-lisp-type-iana-01 Thread-Index: AQHR0SDR1Q6kF/SY9kqJKfdIS8zA75/+oJxg Date: Tue, 28 Jun 2016 12:35:58 +0000 Message-ID: <787AE7BB302AE849A7480A190F8B933008DBAD9E@OPEXCLILMA3.corporate.adroot.infra.ftgroup> References: <4A2C0466-F1E3-45B8-BDFC-9486DA6E9477@gigix.net> In-Reply-To: <4A2C0466-F1E3-45B8-BDFC-9486DA6E9477@gigix.net> Accept-Language: fr-FR, en-US Content-Language: fr-FR X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-originating-ip: [10.168.234.3] Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="_000_787AE7BB302AE849A7480A190F8B933008DBAD9EOPEXCLILMA3corp_" MIME-Version: 1.0 X-PMX-Version: 6.2.1.2478543, Antispam-Engine: 2.7.2.2107409, Antispam-Data: 2016.6.17.114517 Archived-At: Cc: Damien Saucez Subject: Re: [lisp] Call for adoption of draft-boucadair-lisp-type-iana-01 X-BeenThere: lisp@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.17 Precedence: list List-Id: List for the discussion of the Locator/ID Separation Protocol List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 28 Jun 2016 12:36:04 -0000 --_000_787AE7BB302AE849A7480A190F8B933008DBAD9EOPEXCLILMA3corp_ Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Dear chairs, all, Unsurprisingly, I support the adoption of this draft. FWIW, I don't have any IPR related to this draft. Cheers, Med De : lisp [mailto:lisp-bounces@ietf.org] De la part de Luigi Iannone Envoy=E9 : mardi 28 juin 2016 11:38 =C0 : LISP mailing list list Cc : Damien Saucez Objet : [lisp] Call for adoption of draft-boucadair-lisp-type-iana-01 Folks, The chairs received a request for the following document to be adopted as a WG item: https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-boucadair-lisp-type-iana-01 Here starts a 14 day call for adoption, this call will end on Tuesday the 12th July, 2016. Please email the WG list stating whether or not you support acceptance. If you email to support the acceptance of this document as a WG item, pleas= e also indicate if you are able and willing to either contribute to, or revie= w, (or both) the draft. Sitting in silence does not indicate support, please respond appropriately. The Chairs Joel & Luigi --_000_787AE7BB302AE849A7480A190F8B933008DBAD9EOPEXCLILMA3corp_ Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

Dear chairs, all,

 

Unsurprisingly, I support the a= doption of this draft.

 

FWIW, I don’t have any IP= R related to this draft.

 

Cheers,

Med

 

De : lisp= [mailto:lisp-bounces@ietf.org] De la part de Luigi Iannone
Envoy=E9 : mardi 28 juin 2016 11:38
=C0 : LISP mailing list list
Cc : Damien Saucez
Objet : [lisp] Call for adoption of draft-boucadair-lisp-type-i= ana-01

 

Folks,

 

The chairs received a request for the following docu= ment to be
adopted as a WG item:

https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-boucadair= -lisp-type-iana-01


Here starts a 14 day call for adoption, this call will end on Tuesday the 12th July, 2016.

Please email the WG list stating whether or not you support acceptance.

If you email to support the acceptance of this document as a WG item, pleas= e
also indicate if you are able and willing to either contribute to, or = review, (or both) the draft.

Sitting in silence does not indicate support, please respond appropriately.=

 

The Chairs

Joel & Luigi

 

--_000_787AE7BB302AE849A7480A190F8B933008DBAD9EOPEXCLILMA3corp_-- From nobody Tue Jun 28 08:28:58 2016 Return-Path: X-Original-To: lisp@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: lisp@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 24B4F12D1C2 for ; Tue, 28 Jun 2016 08:28:58 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.7 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.7 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW=-0.7, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=gmail.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id lvpYZGIFgh9D for ; Tue, 28 Jun 2016 08:28:56 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail-pa0-x22c.google.com (mail-pa0-x22c.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:400e:c03::22c]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 0542D12D541 for ; Tue, 28 Jun 2016 08:28:56 -0700 (PDT) Received: by mail-pa0-x22c.google.com with SMTP id wo6so7495740pac.3 for ; Tue, 28 Jun 2016 08:28:55 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20120113; h=mime-version:subject:from:in-reply-to:date:cc :content-transfer-encoding:message-id:references:to; bh=wiME8dddIHScEo2vMxBEM+YIJXEDvQGZcSPNm2lQttA=; b=I9/hP99KodxCzUl45X3gyJouTVyaNIw+HRIlW4HgVhJbTddxXhByaroA9e2FeVACzY 0jICW1W9e0tzCX4ZGVedD+vI/eNbb0Ysh21qGzH8O/Aucb4NrfHsWiyst64kBcJT9xxE 4hslIOu4ztcYzuUHf0du3Xr556c/eKbHlQfRIEJ8HQB5XQnW4hcR7XW8LzK+gVRBmsKV QFyv6ywoAPnO7Z8EFY043KkAqkLOq2TcI/k8uLMZLh5QekPj4E87S29xQBIIuuw1H9FD buktdf5tonyUWWzAKLKvb1O+0V3dwiAYm9it0ZOyKjXVKq15boJy7XYTwyZ03nn8gwU/ i+Yw== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20130820; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:subject:from:in-reply-to:date:cc :content-transfer-encoding:message-id:references:to; bh=wiME8dddIHScEo2vMxBEM+YIJXEDvQGZcSPNm2lQttA=; b=Q70hWvvyDiQgtb2umlcU7FdaGZ4KPGLQlXCMnJ3py18tt8XH1IWKQEG9McIEeMhi0F Mzf9emJsg1/9NL9uHAY7qJNuVlJAWL8+q3nG8Bsk6pvL35knsAcKQ7u9sfT5JIn27nlD 6sfJmrGvKU/bJ2PfoxDLCJczsNN5EI9d0p1SCOvc+Dg7frJOTHm1oOxmK4jzi9gUe4Qt y/xTUhnhQ8tmwLiXnCImTUsjM+n1Jd/Nhd4bu/WaLwVu3yIJct6fZjDbNUZzz6JRnDtD MKtQr6Re4ss8CwnWLEhrDbePMJgGg9zFe7ONiLC0TRxr//nk8FeEwVu1xwMhYlKVy/Q8 mE+Q== X-Gm-Message-State: ALyK8tI9ulqxnBVfwymIROwSQ3SVIkedzdSKOlWlss9m55ldJ/0wnyCutZxPkICxNdCSiw== X-Received: by 10.67.23.197 with SMTP id ic5mr2816776pad.127.1467127735553; Tue, 28 Jun 2016 08:28:55 -0700 (PDT) Received: from [10.197.31.157] (173-11-119-245-SFBA.hfc.comcastbusiness.net. [173.11.119.245]) by smtp.gmail.com with ESMTPSA id x10sm230476pfd.8.2016.06.28.08.28.52 (version=TLS1 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-AES128-SHA bits=128/128); Tue, 28 Jun 2016 08:28:54 -0700 (PDT) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 9.3 \(3124\)) From: Dino Farinacci In-Reply-To: <9f722cc7-9e5b-4d4e-a273-7238643afbc2@OPEXCLILM21.corporate.adroot.infra.ftgroup> Date: Tue, 28 Jun 2016 08:29:34 -0700 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Message-Id: References: <74BBACBD-FC2D-4265-9C40-B02DF5C5675A@gmail.com> <9f722cc7-9e5b-4d4e-a273-7238643afbc2@OPEXCLILM21.corporate.adroot.infra.ftgroup> To: mohamed.boucadair@orange.com X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.3124) Archived-At: Cc: LISP mailing list list Subject: Re: [lisp] Brief comments to draft-boucadair-lisp-type-iana-01 X-BeenThere: lisp@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.17 Precedence: list List-Id: List for the discussion of the Locator/ID Separation Protocol List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 28 Jun 2016 15:28:58 -0000 > I would add packet types that not have been defined in RFC6830 (but = will go into RFC6830bis) which are in use today in several = implementations. That is Map-Notify-Ack, Info-Request, and Info-Reply. > [Med] I suggest to restrict the initial table to RFC6830 + the new = type in the draft. Documents defining other messages should include an = IANA section to formally request a code; a preferred value can be = indicated to IANA. I added this NEW sentence to the draft: That is fine to not include Info-Request and Info-Reply but = Map-Notify-Ack has been in implementations for a long time so value 5 = has been assigned and will be included in RFC6830bis. So I think you = should include at least Map-Notify-Ack. > Documents that request for a new LISP packet type may indicate a > preferred value in the corresponding IANA sections. > =20 > I would also change =E2=80=9CLISP Experimental Message=E2=80=9D to = =E2=80=9CLISP Extension Types=E2=80=9D. > [Med] I prefer =E2=80=9CLISP Experimental Message=E2=80=9D to reflect = that the message is reserved for experimental use. That is fine. Thanks. Dino From nobody Tue Jun 28 08:29:25 2016 Return-Path: X-Original-To: lisp@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: lisp@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id DE21D12D550 for ; Tue, 28 Jun 2016 08:29:23 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.7 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.7 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW=-0.7, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=gmail.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id Tt7xGFWhzq8u for ; Tue, 28 Jun 2016 08:29:22 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail-pf0-x229.google.com (mail-pf0-x229.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:400e:c00::229]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 2A0A512D53D for ; Tue, 28 Jun 2016 08:29:22 -0700 (PDT) Received: by mail-pf0-x229.google.com with SMTP id h14so7844505pfe.1 for ; Tue, 28 Jun 2016 08:29:22 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20120113; h=mime-version:subject:from:in-reply-to:date:cc :content-transfer-encoding:message-id:references:to; bh=T54MYfKSz7W3Yaevdjk9/BvYxv6XHP2kg5/LGOAJcuI=; b=u36bAV+gAnbSs872IDr2Lv2JIkdtVmSy8ro/bWDde9meSsbQhCZ95aOox4bL86u8bH mJXigJCDsDCNlBHOw4ohk7gGYJ4ZcI2Y8rCagySFzjySFeF5qExK4p5u8yGvAcryT2x3 cHW9LhU8fK1lYknyu70Ptdx1KXllAW6lA5X/sMahoqrZFLS/enxTDDcoyk8m4w6uLTcF zy5k4QU3/f92iAnGdjygbPObbod6tQCWxChttQ5TgTNZP402ow20+8CkABM1hC/166Kz ejsGEuPN4b/A35S3/gvg2ypDiu2BluMuA5dyHz31mAMJWqA+yGTXITI1+DjgPPg8Zbnw fMZg== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20130820; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:subject:from:in-reply-to:date:cc :content-transfer-encoding:message-id:references:to; bh=T54MYfKSz7W3Yaevdjk9/BvYxv6XHP2kg5/LGOAJcuI=; b=GHK433CTyzWxsstRcYp+JQ7b7DTXllniVKGl6kX2QQrenahFrVwPKwHTC6n3mmK+En ZZ3hlEJAxwDZiR5Kv7QtwQuYL/7QiN+EljrSHeCx79SFQlQvxVeCAARuM29K5olGvx0b nFNGTGjv37UKCt+wdchdrtcyirLZXpZ4HnH8VjbqQ2F4O6qVBBvokIZsvm3XyhTmqwDO 5pmKVnHUD4Wwmy/3df6jgyo9aLl4vYcT/NO130Yaf/mYpv23cF/h6lD5snDfCe2329co jaNpULz0QhWfVtx94Q9uKPJ7noVf5rJi1NTgeJkHwtnmjmQqHBdnV9bJoh5REzT91nqf 5MnA== X-Gm-Message-State: ALyK8tKqHxxqqLStILhxB4MwZksViBb9WeYJRZqoBvcBXgL0PIKmoF8KrfD1YYgr3H+JrQ== X-Received: by 10.98.86.72 with SMTP id k69mr2791926pfb.166.1467127761769; Tue, 28 Jun 2016 08:29:21 -0700 (PDT) Received: from [10.197.31.157] (173-11-119-245-SFBA.hfc.comcastbusiness.net. [173.11.119.245]) by smtp.gmail.com with ESMTPSA id x10sm230476pfd.8.2016.06.28.08.29.19 (version=TLS1 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-AES128-SHA bits=128/128); Tue, 28 Jun 2016 08:29:21 -0700 (PDT) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 9.3 \(3124\)) From: Dino Farinacci In-Reply-To: <4A2C0466-F1E3-45B8-BDFC-9486DA6E9477@gigix.net> Date: Tue, 28 Jun 2016 08:30:03 -0700 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Message-Id: References: <4A2C0466-F1E3-45B8-BDFC-9486DA6E9477@gigix.net> To: Luigi Iannone X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.3124) Archived-At: Cc: Damien Saucez , LISP mailing list list Subject: Re: [lisp] Call for adoption of draft-boucadair-lisp-type-iana-01 X-BeenThere: lisp@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.17 Precedence: list List-Id: List for the discussion of the Locator/ID Separation Protocol List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 28 Jun 2016 15:29:24 -0000 I support the draft being a working group document. Dino > On Jun 28, 2016, at 2:37 AM, Luigi Iannone wrote: >=20 > Folks, >=20 > The chairs received a request for the following document to be > adopted as a WG item: >=20 > https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-boucadair-lisp-type-iana-01 >=20 > Here starts a 14 day call for adoption, this call will end on > Tuesday the 12th July, 2016. >=20 > Please email the WG list stating whether or not you support = acceptance. >=20 > If you email to support the acceptance of this document as a WG item, = please > also indicate if you are able and willing to either contribute to, or = review, (or both) the draft. >=20 > Sitting in silence does not indicate support, please respond = appropriately. >=20 >=20 > The Chairs > Joel & Luigi >=20 > _______________________________________________ > lisp mailing list > lisp@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/lisp From nobody Wed Jun 29 09:18:08 2016 Return-Path: X-Original-To: lisp@ietf.org Delivered-To: lisp@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from ietfa.amsl.com (localhost [IPv6:::1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 883E012D176; Wed, 29 Jun 2016 09:18:03 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: internet-drafts@ietf.org To: X-Test-IDTracker: no X-IETF-IDTracker: 6.25.0 Auto-Submitted: auto-generated Precedence: bulk Message-ID: <20160629161803.18766.87388.idtracker@ietfa.amsl.com> Date: Wed, 29 Jun 2016 09:18:03 -0700 Archived-At: Cc: lisp@ietf.org Subject: [lisp] I-D Action: draft-ietf-lisp-crypto-06.txt X-BeenThere: lisp@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.17 List-Id: List for the discussion of the Locator/ID Separation Protocol List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 29 Jun 2016 16:18:03 -0000 A New Internet-Draft is available from the on-line Internet-Drafts directories. This draft is a work item of the Locator/ID Separation Protocol of the IETF. Title : LISP Data-Plane Confidentiality Authors : Dino Farinacci Brian Weis Filename : draft-ietf-lisp-crypto-06.txt Pages : 18 Date : 2016-06-29 Abstract: This document describes a mechanism for encrypting LISP encapsulated traffic. The design describes how key exchange is achieved using existing LISP control-plane mechanisms as well as how to secure the LISP data-plane from third-party surveillance attacks. The IETF datatracker status page for this draft is: https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-lisp-crypto/ There's also a htmlized version available at: https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-lisp-crypto-06 A diff from the previous version is available at: https://www.ietf.org/rfcdiff?url2=draft-ietf-lisp-crypto-06 Please note that it may take a couple of minutes from the time of submission until the htmlized version and diff are available at tools.ietf.org. Internet-Drafts are also available by anonymous FTP at: ftp://ftp.ietf.org/internet-drafts/ From nobody Wed Jun 29 12:50:04 2016 Return-Path: X-Original-To: lisp@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: lisp@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9BCFD12B01C for ; Wed, 29 Jun 2016 12:50:03 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -3.327 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-3.327 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, RP_MATCHES_RCVD=-1.426, SPF_HELO_PASS=-0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id PQBrvyPTmIJw for ; Wed, 29 Jun 2016 12:50:01 -0700 (PDT) Received: from osiris.lip6.fr (osiris.lip6.fr [132.227.60.30]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id A883812B017 for ; Wed, 29 Jun 2016 12:50:00 -0700 (PDT) Received: from tibre.lip6.fr (tibre.lip6.fr [132.227.74.2]) by osiris.lip6.fr (8.15.2/lip6) with ESMTP id u5TJnqM7020367 for ; Wed, 29 Jun 2016 21:49:52 +0200 (CEST) X-pt: osiris.lip6.fr Received: from [192.168.1.39] (bre75-4-78-194-65-24.fbxo.proxad.net [78.194.65.24]) (authenticated bits=0) by tibre.lip6.fr (8.15.1/8.14.7) with ESMTPSA id u5TJnqZJ008806 (version=TLSv1 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO) for ; Wed, 29 Jun 2016 21:49:52 +0200 (MEST) Content-Type: multipart/signed; boundary="Apple-Mail=_3FE89983-9049-415C-858D-9E8A23BBB986"; protocol="application/pgp-signature"; micalg=pgp-sha256 Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 8.1 \(1993\)) X-Pgp-Agent: GPGMail 2.5.2 From: Stefano Secci In-Reply-To: Date: Wed, 29 Jun 2016 21:49:51 +0200 Message-Id: References: <4A2C0466-F1E3-45B8-BDFC-9486DA6E9477@gigix.net> To: lisp@ietf.org X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.1993) X-Greylist: Sender IP whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-4.4.3 (osiris.lip6.fr [132.227.60.30]); Wed, 29 Jun 2016 21:49:52 +0200 (CEST) X-Scanned-By: MIMEDefang 2.78 on 132.227.60.30 Archived-At: Subject: Re: [lisp] [lisplab] Call for adoption of draft-boucadair-lisp-type-iana-01 X-BeenThere: lisp@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.17 Precedence: list List-Id: List for the discussion of the Locator/ID Separation Protocol List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 29 Jun 2016 19:50:03 -0000 --Apple-Mail=_3FE89983-9049-415C-858D-9E8A23BBB986 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="Apple-Mail=_91F1AF3E-33A3-4C8E-8A48-ECD0A48583BC" --Apple-Mail=_91F1AF3E-33A3-4C8E-8A48-ECD0A48583BC Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Hello, I support this draft. Cheers, Stefano >> From: Luigi Iannone > >> Subject: Call for adoption of draft-boucadair-lisp-type-iana-01 >> Date: 28 June 2016 at 11:37:30 GMT+2 >> To: LISP mailing list list > >> Cc: "Joel M. Halpern" >, Damien Saucez >, Wassim Haddad = > >>=20 >> Folks, >>=20 >> The chairs received a request for the following document to be >> adopted as a WG item: >>=20 >> https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-boucadair-lisp-type-iana-01 = >>=20 >> Here starts a 14 day call for adoption, this call will end on >> Tuesday the 12th July, 2016. >>=20 >> Please email the WG list stating whether or not you support = acceptance. >>=20 >> If you email to support the acceptance of this document as a WG item, = please >> also indicate if you are able and willing to either contribute to, or = review, (or both) the draft. >>=20 >> Sitting in silence does not indicate support, please respond = appropriately. >>=20 >>=20 >> The Chairs >> Joel & Luigi -- Stefano Secci Associate Professor Univ. Pierre et Marie Curie LIP6 - Office 25-26/518 - BC 169 4 place Jussieu, 75005 Paris, France Tel: +33 (0) 1 4427 3678 http://www-phare.lip6.fr/~secci --Apple-Mail=_91F1AF3E-33A3-4C8E-8A48-ECD0A48583BC Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/html; charset=us-ascii Hello,

I = support this draft.

Cheers,
Stefano

From: Luigi Iannone <ggx@gigix.net>
Subject: Call for adoption of = draft-boucadair-lisp-type-iana-01
Date: 28 June 2016 at 11:37:30 GMT+2
To: LISP mailing list list <lisp@ietf.org>
Cc: "Joel M. Halpern" <jmh@joelhalpern.com>, Damien Saucez <damien.saucez@inria.fr>, Wassim Haddad <wassim.haddad@ericsson.com>

Folks,

The chairs received a request for the = following document to be
adopted as a WG item:

https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-boucadair-lisp-type-iana-01

Here starts a 14 day call for = adoption, this call will end on
Tuesday the 12th July, = 2016.

Please email the WG list stating = whether or not you support acceptance.

If = you email to support the acceptance of this document as a WG item, = please
also indicate if you are able and willing to either = contribute to, or review, (or both) the draft.

Sitting in silence does not indicate support, please respond = appropriately.


The Chairs
Joel = & Luigi


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