Subject: RE: [Mobike] New issue 16: No packets from other end?

From: <[email-masked]>
Date: Fri, 13 Aug 2004 13:07:16 +0300

Tero Kivinen wrote:
> 
> Jari Arkko writes:
> > Triggering something known locally (interface down etc)
> > needs an external trigger. Lack of packets could be triggered
> > either by external triggers or MOBIKE/IKEv2 itself. I
> > personally prefer the latter, because there would be
> > less reliance on APIs and other protocol layers.
> 
> Modify that MOBIKE/IKEv2 to include also IPsec then I agree... The
> most common way to get the information is to notice that there is no
> ESP packets coming in....

Do you mean that lack of ESP packets would trigger an IKEv2
informational request and lack of response to that would trigger 
MOBIKE to change paths, or that lack of ESP packets
would directly trigger MOBIKE to change paths?

Best regards,
Pasi
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From: Francis Dupont <[email-masked]>
Date: Fri, 13 Aug 2004 12:22:04 +0200

In your previous mail you wrote:

=> this is exactly the kind of questions we should avoid:
the lack of ESP packets should be reported (not by MOBIKE but by
IPsec itself) to the control which can ask to MOBIKE to trigger
an IKEv2 informational request or to change paths.
The control mechanism can be inside or outside the MOBIKE tool
but should NOT be defined by MOBIKE.

As a Mobile IPv6 implementor I can say that handoff detection is not
so easy and I definitively don't want to get it in my IKE daemon code
or in MOBIKE specs. Just ask Jari...

Regards

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From: Tero Kivinen <[email-masked]>
Date: Fri, 13 Aug 2004 14:03:09 +0300

> would directly trigger MOBIKE to change paths?

The first. I.e. we need to still do the dead peer detection to verify
if it just so that the other end is simply silent. 
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From: Vijay Devarapalli <[email-masked]>
Date: Fri, 13 Aug 2004 13:39:31 -0700

what is "lack of ESP packets"? for how long do you wait?

isnt this dependent on the application?

do you want to trigger an IKEv2 informational request everytime
the application "pauses"?

MOBIKE shouldnt decide. I agree with Francis, that the "lack
of ESP packets" should be handled elsewhere in the stack (and
not in MOBIKE).

Vijay