From owner-ietf-msgtrk@mail.imc.org Fri Mar 10 17:25:24 2000 Received: from ns.secondary.com (ns.secondary.com [208.184.76.39]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id RAA15487 for ; Fri, 10 Mar 2000 17:25:23 -0500 (EST) Received: by ns.secondary.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id NAA27760 for ietf-msgtrk-bks; Fri, 10 Mar 2000 13:51:14 -0800 (PST) Received: from kcmso1.proxy.att.com (kcmso1.att.com [192.128.133.69]) by ns.secondary.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id NAA27756 for ; Fri, 10 Mar 2000 13:51:13 -0800 (PST) Received: from dns.maillennium.att.com ([135.25.114.99]) by kcmso1.proxy.att.com (AT&T IPNS/MSO-2.2) with ESMTP id QAA22179 for ; Fri, 10 Mar 2000 16:51:35 -0500 (EST) Received: from att.com ([135.197.90.195]) by maillennium.att.com (labmail) with SMTP id <2000031021491209925300l0e>; Fri, 10 Mar 2000 21:49:12 +0000 Message-ID: <38C96D8F.58B700EA@att.com> Date: Fri, 10 Mar 2000 16:47:59 -0500 From: Tony Hansen Organization: AT&T Laboratories X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.7 [en] (Win98; I) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: ietf-msgtrk@imc.org Subject: new msgtrk drafts posted to internet-drafts Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-ietf-msgtrk@mail.imc.org Precedence: bulk List-Archive: List-ID: List-Unsubscribe: Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit The two drafts draft-ietf-msgtrk-model-01.txt Message Tracking Model and Requirements draft-ietf-msgtrk-protocol-00.txt SMTP Service Extension for Message Tracking have been posted to the internet-drafts editor. Copies can be found at: http://www.geocities.com/SiliconValley/Way/8115/msgtrk/ if you're too anxious to wait. :-) Tony Hansen tony@att.com From owner-ietf-msgtrk@mail.imc.org Fri Mar 17 08:34:13 2000 Received: from ns.secondary.com (ns.secondary.com [208.184.76.39]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id IAA27053 for ; Fri, 17 Mar 2000 08:34:12 -0500 (EST) Received: by ns.secondary.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id FAA08981 for ietf-msgtrk-bks; Fri, 17 Mar 2000 05:21:50 -0800 (PST) Received: from ietf.org (odin.ietf.org [132.151.1.176]) by ns.secondary.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id FAA08977 for ; Fri, 17 Mar 2000 05:21:49 -0800 (PST) Received: from CNRI.Reston.VA.US (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id IAA22286; Fri, 17 Mar 2000 08:23:14 -0500 (EST) Message-Id: <200003171323.IAA22286@ietf.org> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: Multipart/Mixed; Boundary="NextPart" To: IETF-Announce: ; Cc: ietf-msgtrk@imc.org From: Internet-Drafts@ietf.org Reply-to: Internet-Drafts@ietf.org Subject: I-D ACTION:draft-ietf-msgtrk-protocol-00.txt Date: Fri, 17 Mar 2000 08:23:13 -0500 Sender: owner-ietf-msgtrk@mail.imc.org Precedence: bulk List-Archive: List-ID: List-Unsubscribe: --NextPart A New Internet-Draft is available from the on-line Internet-Drafts directories. This draft is a work item of the Message Tracking Protocol Working Group of the IETF. Title : SMTP Service Extension for Message Tracking Author(s) : E. Allman, T. Hansen Filename : draft-ietf-msgtrk-protocol-00.txt Pages : 9 Date : 16-Mar-00 The Message Tracking Models and Requirements document [RFC-TRACK- MODEL] discusses the models that message tracking solutions could fol- low, along with requirements for a message tracking solution that can be used with the Internet-wide message infrastructure. This memo defines an extension to the SMTP service that provides a message tracking solu- tion that satisfies those requirements. Using the model document's ter- minology, it uses active enabling and active requests with request referrals. A URL for this Internet-Draft is: http://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-ietf-msgtrk-protocol-00.txt Internet-Drafts are also available by anonymous FTP. Login with the username "anonymous" and a password of your e-mail address. After logging in, type "cd internet-drafts" and then "get draft-ietf-msgtrk-protocol-00.txt". A list of Internet-Drafts directories can be found in http://www.ietf.org/shadow.html or ftp://ftp.ietf.org/ietf/1shadow-sites.txt Internet-Drafts can also be obtained by e-mail. Send a message to: mailserv@ietf.org. In the body type: "FILE /internet-drafts/draft-ietf-msgtrk-protocol-00.txt". NOTE: The mail server at ietf.org can return the document in MIME-encoded form by using the "mpack" utility. To use this feature, insert the command "ENCODING mime" before the "FILE" command. To decode the response(s), you will need "munpack" or a MIME-compliant mail reader. Different MIME-compliant mail readers exhibit different behavior, especially when dealing with "multipart" MIME messages (i.e. documents which have been split up into multiple messages), so check your local documentation on how to manipulate these messages. Below is the data which will enable a MIME compliant mail reader implementation to automatically retrieve the ASCII version of the Internet-Draft. --NextPart Content-Type: Multipart/Alternative; Boundary="OtherAccess" --OtherAccess Content-Type: Message/External-body; access-type="mail-server"; server="mailserv@ietf.org" Content-Type: text/plain Content-ID: <20000316144645.I-D@ietf.org> ENCODING mime FILE /internet-drafts/draft-ietf-msgtrk-protocol-00.txt --OtherAccess Content-Type: Message/External-body; name="draft-ietf-msgtrk-protocol-00.txt"; site="ftp.ietf.org"; access-type="anon-ftp"; directory="internet-drafts" Content-Type: text/plain Content-ID: <20000316144645.I-D@ietf.org> --OtherAccess-- --NextPart-- From owner-ietf-msgtrk@mail.imc.org Fri Mar 17 08:34:19 2000 Received: from ns.secondary.com (ns.secondary.com [208.184.76.39]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id IAA27092 for ; Fri, 17 Mar 2000 08:34:19 -0500 (EST) Received: by ns.secondary.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id FAA08974 for ietf-msgtrk-bks; Fri, 17 Mar 2000 05:21:44 -0800 (PST) Received: from ietf.org (odin.ietf.org [132.151.1.176]) by ns.secondary.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id FAA08970 for ; Fri, 17 Mar 2000 05:21:42 -0800 (PST) Received: from CNRI.Reston.VA.US (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id IAA22233; Fri, 17 Mar 2000 08:23:07 -0500 (EST) Message-Id: <200003171323.IAA22233@ietf.org> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: Multipart/Mixed; Boundary="NextPart" To: IETF-Announce: ; Cc: ietf-msgtrk@imc.org From: Internet-Drafts@ietf.org Reply-to: Internet-Drafts@ietf.org Subject: I-D ACTION:draft-ietf-msgtrk-model-01.txt Date: Fri, 17 Mar 2000 08:23:06 -0500 Sender: owner-ietf-msgtrk@mail.imc.org Precedence: bulk List-Archive: List-ID: List-Unsubscribe: --NextPart A New Internet-Draft is available from the on-line Internet-Drafts directories. This draft is a work item of the Message Tracking Protocol Working Group of the IETF. Title : Message Tracking Model and Requirements Author(s) : T. Hansen, K. Lin Filename : draft-ietf-msgtrk-model-01.txt Pages : 10 Date : 16-Mar-00 Customers buying enterprise message systems often ask: Can I track the messages? Message tracking is the ability to find out the path that a particular message has taken through a messaging system and the current routing status of that message. This document provides a model of message tracking that can be used for understanding the Internet-wide message infrastructure and to further enhance those capabilities to include message tracking. A URL for this Internet-Draft is: http://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-ietf-msgtrk-model-01.txt Internet-Drafts are also available by anonymous FTP. Login with the username "anonymous" and a password of your e-mail address. After logging in, type "cd internet-drafts" and then "get draft-ietf-msgtrk-model-01.txt". A list of Internet-Drafts directories can be found in http://www.ietf.org/shadow.html or ftp://ftp.ietf.org/ietf/1shadow-sites.txt Internet-Drafts can also be obtained by e-mail. Send a message to: mailserv@ietf.org. In the body type: "FILE /internet-drafts/draft-ietf-msgtrk-model-01.txt". NOTE: The mail server at ietf.org can return the document in MIME-encoded form by using the "mpack" utility. To use this feature, insert the command "ENCODING mime" before the "FILE" command. To decode the response(s), you will need "munpack" or a MIME-compliant mail reader. Different MIME-compliant mail readers exhibit different behavior, especially when dealing with "multipart" MIME messages (i.e. documents which have been split up into multiple messages), so check your local documentation on how to manipulate these messages. Below is the data which will enable a MIME compliant mail reader implementation to automatically retrieve the ASCII version of the Internet-Draft. --NextPart Content-Type: Multipart/Alternative; Boundary="OtherAccess" --OtherAccess Content-Type: Message/External-body; access-type="mail-server"; server="mailserv@ietf.org" Content-Type: text/plain Content-ID: <20000316144633.I-D@ietf.org> ENCODING mime FILE /internet-drafts/draft-ietf-msgtrk-model-01.txt --OtherAccess Content-Type: Message/External-body; name="draft-ietf-msgtrk-model-01.txt"; site="ftp.ietf.org"; access-type="anon-ftp"; directory="internet-drafts" Content-Type: text/plain Content-ID: <20000316144633.I-D@ietf.org> --OtherAccess-- --NextPart-- From owner-ietf-msgtrk@mail.imc.org Wed Mar 22 22:44:11 2000 Received: from ns.secondary.com (ns.secondary.com [208.184.76.39]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id WAA28345 for ; Wed, 22 Mar 2000 22:44:10 -0500 (EST) Received: by ns.secondary.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id TAA10232 for ietf-msgtrk-bks; Wed, 22 Mar 2000 19:31:24 -0800 (PST) Received: from demo.esys.ca ([207.167.22.130]) by ns.secondary.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id TAA10222 for ; Wed, 22 Mar 2000 19:31:20 -0800 (PST) Received: from messagingdirect.com (dhcp198-53.esys.ca [198.161.92.53]) by demo.esys.ca (2.0.4/SMS 2.0.4-beta-5) with ESMTP id UAA28323; Wed, 22 Mar 2000 20:31:41 -0700 Message-ID: <38D99074.2A9370E9@messagingdirect.com> Date: Wed, 22 Mar 2000 20:33:08 -0700 From: Alexey Melnikov X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.72 [en] (Windows NT 5.0; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Tony Hansen CC: ietf-msgtrk@imc.org Subject: Comments on draft-ietf-msgtrk-protocol-00.txt References: <38C96D8F.58B700EA@att.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=koi8-r Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-ietf-msgtrk@mail.imc.org Precedence: bulk List-Archive: List-ID: List-Unsubscribe: Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit >1. Introduction ... >Using the model document's terminology, it uses active enabling and active requests with request >referrals. I couldn't find any referrals in the document. >4.2.1. Tracking ID ... >The Tracking ID is REQUIRED to be the same value as >used for the Message ID, without the angle brackets, and augmented by a >colon ":" and a generational counter. The generational counter will be >an unsigned integer value that SHOULD start at the value of 0. For >example, if the value of the Message-ID: header is >"<123456.89012391@domain.example>", then the value of the tracking ID >will be "123456.89012391@domain.example:0". If a message is ever resent >or retransmitted for any other reason by an end-user client, then the >generational counter MUST be incremented by one. (The generational >counter MAY additionally be incremented by a small (<10) random number.) I disagree with proposed solution of making Message-Ids unique. Requirement to increment by one will lead to duplicates. And I don't see why random number should be smaller than 10. I prefer having some random generated sequence of alpha-numeric characters (maybe with fixed length) instead. At minimum, I think "MAY increment" should be replaced with "MUST increment" and 10 is replaced with something bigger. >11. Appendix A -- Sample Code ... > > MD5Init(&context); > MD5Update(&context, secret, secret_len); > MD5Update(&context, transaction_id, transaction_id_len); The last two lines should be in the opposite order, because A = H(T + S) > MD5Final(outbuf, &context); Alexey From owner-ietf-msgtrk@mail.imc.org Tue Mar 28 00:59:44 2000 Received: from ns.secondary.com (ns.secondary.com [208.184.76.39]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id AAA04947 for ; Tue, 28 Mar 2000 00:59:44 -0500 (EST) Received: by ns.secondary.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id VAA08028 for ietf-msgtrk-bks; Mon, 27 Mar 2000 21:45:26 -0800 (PST) Received: from horsey.gshapiro.net (horsey.gshapiro.net [209.220.147.178]) by ns.secondary.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id VAA08024 for ; Mon, 27 Mar 2000 21:45:24 -0800 (PST) Received: (from gshapiro@localhost) by horsey.gshapiro.net (8.10.1.Beta1/8.10.1.Beta1) id e2S5ljf97380; Mon, 27 Mar 2000 21:47:45 -0800 (PST) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Message-ID: <14560.18305.540255.729871@horsey.gshapiro.net> Date: Mon, 27 Mar 2000 21:47:45 -0800 (PST) From: Gregory Neil Shapiro To: ietf-msgtrk@imc.org Subject: Model & Protocol draft comments X-Mailer: VM 6.75 under 21.2 (beta31) "Hygeia" XEmacs Lucid Sender: owner-ietf-msgtrk@mail.imc.org Precedence: bulk List-Archive: List-ID: List-Unsubscribe: Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit For the benefit of those not at IETF and to give those who are an advanced preview, here are my comments on the two drafts: Model draft: 2. Definitions "The UA and MSA are often combined into the same program." - Add: MTA can act as an MSA "The final MTA is what sends any Delivery Status Notificatons (DSNs)." - An Intermediate can send a DSN if it relays to a non-DSN aware MTA "A Delivery Status Notification [RFC-DSN] is produced by an MTA when a message is unsuccessfully delivered, either to its next hop or the final message store, or when it is successfully delivered, either to a foreign MTA or to a local delivery agent." - how about when relaying to a non-DSN aware MTA Protocol draft: 3. Message Tracking Enabling "make a "best effort" to record when messages are passed into other environments." - what is "best effort"? - What happens if tracking requested and passing to an MTA which doesn't support tracking? 4.2.3. Stored Authentication Value - Offer use of SHA1 instead of or in addition to MD5? - Need to ID hash in the string 5. Message Tracking Requests - Offer 250-TRACK but not allow the MTRK VERB? (i.e., only transfer TRACKID info) 6.1. Message Tracking Enabling "S: 25o recipient ok" - 250 -^ 6.2. Message Tracking Request "C: MTRK 1234567890123456789012:12345.54321@example.com:0 S: -- response to be determined" - Add after that: "C: QUIT S: 221 goodbye" 7. Security Considerations - Who can track? Transfering ability to somone else? 9. Authors' Addresses " Eric Allman Sendmail, Inc. street address city, state zip Phone: +1" - Change to: " Eric Allman Sendmail, Inc. 6603 Shellmound Street Emeryville, CA 94608 Phone: +1-510-594-5501" From owner-ietf-msgtrk@mail.imc.org Wed Mar 29 09:21:34 2000 Received: from ns.secondary.com (ns.secondary.com [208.184.76.39]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id JAA21210 for ; Wed, 29 Mar 2000 09:21:34 -0500 (EST) Received: by ns.secondary.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id GAA28397 for ietf-msgtrk-bks; Wed, 29 Mar 2000 06:08:37 -0800 (PST) Received: from strange.qualcomm.com (strange.qualcomm.com [129.46.2.27]) by ns.secondary.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id GAA28393 for ; Wed, 29 Mar 2000 06:08:36 -0800 (PST) Received: from 129.46.39.50 ([129.46.39.50]) by strange.qualcomm.com (8.9.3/8.9.3/1.0) with ESMTP id GAA12333; Wed, 29 Mar 2000 06:10:48 -0800 (PST) Mime-Version: 1.0 Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <14560.18305.540255.729871@horsey.gshapiro.net> References: <14560.18305.540255.729871@horsey.gshapiro.net> X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Eudora v4.3 for Macintosh Date: Wed, 29 Mar 2000 23:40:06 +0930 To: Gregory Neil Shapiro , ietf-msgtrk@imc.org From: Randall Gellens Subject: Re: Model & Protocol draft comments Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed" Sender: owner-ietf-msgtrk@mail.imc.org Precedence: bulk List-Archive: List-ID: List-Unsubscribe: At 9:47 PM -0800 3/27/00, Gregory Neil Shapiro wrote: > "The UA and MSA are often combined into the same program." I also noticed that this draft still uses terminology, such as "Mail Submission Agent", which differs significantly from how it is used in RFC 2476. In 2476, an MSA is in lieu of the first MTA; it is what the client connects to in order to submit messages into the SMTP delivery network. In this draft, an MSA is whatever completes a message; it may be part of the MUA. I'd suggest deleting the quoted sentence, and replacing it with "an MSA is in lieu of the first MTA; it is what the client connects to in order to submit messages into the SMTP delivery network." Also, >internet byte order (low-endian ???? ) [RFC-????]. The term you want is "Network Byte Order" , which is Big-Endian. -- Randall Gellens Opinions are personal; facts are suspect; I speak for myself only -------------- Randomly-selected tag: --------------- If there's a possibility that something might be controversial, then why not eliminate it? --Wild Rose, Wis. district administrator, explaining why _Bury My Heart at Wounded Knee_ by Dee Brown was removed from schools. From owner-ietf-msgtrk@mail.imc.org Wed Mar 29 19:17:46 2000 Received: from ns.secondary.com (ns.secondary.com [208.184.76.39]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id TAA26076 for ; Wed, 29 Mar 2000 19:17:45 -0500 (EST) Received: by ns.secondary.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id QAA09568 for ietf-msgtrk-bks; Wed, 29 Mar 2000 16:06:16 -0800 (PST) Received: from fantasia.qualcomm.com (fantasia.qualcomm.com [129.46.2.49]) by ns.secondary.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id QAA09564 for ; Wed, 29 Mar 2000 16:06:15 -0800 (PST) Received: from 129.46.39.43 (primemover-client17.qualcomm.com [129.46.86.82]) by fantasia.qualcomm.com (8.9.3/8.9.3/1.0) with ESMTP id QAA06543 for ; Wed, 29 Mar 2000 16:08:34 -0800 (PST) Mime-Version: 1.0 Message-Id: X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Eudora v4.3 for Macintosh Date: Thu, 30 Mar 2000 09:35:20 +0930 To: ietf-msgtrk@imc.org From: Randall Gellens Subject: Model & Protocol draft nits Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed" Sender: owner-ietf-msgtrk@mail.imc.org Precedence: bulk List-Archive: List-ID: List-Unsubscribe: More nits: Can we eliminate the tabs, please? In 5.1 of the model doc: >Any message that does have enough information to track it is by >definition not trackable. I think we need "does not have". In 5.3: >The "active request" model requires an active query by a user's >user agent to either the intermediate MTAs and final MTA I think the MUA would normally only contact the MSA, since it does not usually know (and may not be able to contact) an intermediate or final MTA. -- Randall Gellens Opinions are personal; facts are suspect; I speak for myself only -------------- Randomly-selected tag: --------------- The attention span of a computer is only as long as its electrical cord. From owner-ietf-msgtrk@mail.imc.org Thu Mar 30 06:49:51 2000 Received: from ns.secondary.com (ns.secondary.com [208.184.76.39]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id GAA15735 for ; Thu, 30 Mar 2000 06:49:50 -0500 (EST) Received: by ns.secondary.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id DAA16640 for ietf-msgtrk-bks; Thu, 30 Mar 2000 03:36:10 -0800 (PST) Received: from apprentice.qualcomm.com (apprentice.qualcomm.com [129.46.2.86]) by ns.secondary.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id DAA16636 for ; Thu, 30 Mar 2000 03:36:08 -0800 (PST) Received: from 129.46.39.52 ([129.46.39.41]) by apprentice.qualcomm.com (8.9.3/8.9.3/1.0) with ESMTP id DAA00124; Thu, 30 Mar 2000 03:38:35 -0800 (PST) Mime-Version: 1.0 Message-Id: X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Eudora v4.3 for Macintosh Date: Thu, 30 Mar 2000 21:07:19 +0930 To: Gregory Neil Shapiro , ietf-msgtrk@imc.org From: Randall Gellens Subject: RFC 2476 Definitions Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed" Sender: owner-ietf-msgtrk@mail.imc.org Precedence: bulk List-Archive: List-ID: List-Unsubscribe: By the way, here are the definitions from RFC 2476: Message Submission Agent (MSA) A process which conforms to this specification, which acts as a submission server to accept messages from MUAs, and either delivers them or acts as an SMTP client to relay them to an MTA. Message Transfer Agent (MTA) A process which conforms to [SMTP-MTA], which acts as an SMTP server to accept messages from an MSA or another MTA, and either delivers them or acts as an SMTP client to relay them to another MTA. Message User Agent (MUA) A process which acts (usually on behalf of a user) to compose and submit new messages, and process delivered messages. In the split- MUA model, POP or IMAP is used to access delivered messages. Note that an MSA "accepts" messages from an MUA, so in the case that was mentioned where a process invokes sendmail, it can be said that sendmail accepts the message from the process. -- Randall Gellens Opinions are personal; facts are suspect; I speak for myself only -------------- Randomly-selected tag: --------------- An algorithm must be seen to be believed. -- Donald Knuth