From owner-ietf-msgtrk@mail.imc.org Fri Dec 1 07:04:44 2000 Received: from ns.secondary.com (ns.secondary.com [208.184.76.39]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with SMTP id HAA13698 for ; Fri, 1 Dec 2000 07:04:43 -0500 (EST) Received: by ns.secondary.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id DAA14847 for ietf-msgtrk-bks; Fri, 1 Dec 2000 03:30:47 -0800 (PST) Received: from ietf.org (odin.ietf.org [132.151.1.176]) by ns.secondary.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id DAA14841 for ; Fri, 1 Dec 2000 03:30:45 -0800 (PST) Received: from CNRI.Reston.VA.US (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id GAA25432; Fri, 1 Dec 2000 06:32:24 -0500 (EST) Message-Id: <200012011132.GAA25432@ietf.org> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: Multipart/Mixed; Boundary="NextPart" To: IETF-Announce: ; Cc: ietf-msgtrk@imc.org From: Internet-Drafts@ietf.org Reply-to: Internet-Drafts@ietf.org Subject: I-D ACTION:draft-ietf-msgtrk-mtqp-01.txt Date: Fri, 01 Dec 2000 06:32:24 -0500 Sender: owner-ietf-msgtrk@mail.imc.org Precedence: bulk List-Archive: List-ID: List-Unsubscribe: --NextPart A New Internet-Draft is available from the on-line Internet-Drafts directories. This draft is a work item of the Message Tracking Protocol Working Group of the IETF. Title : Message Tracking Query Protocol Author(s) : T. Hansen Filename : draft-ietf-msgtrk-mtqp-01.txt Pages : 13 Date : 30-Nov-00 Customers buying enterprise message systems often ask: Can I track the messages? Message tracking is the ability to find out the path that a particular message has taken through a messaging system and the current routing status of that message. This document describes the Message Tracking Query Protocol that is used in conjunction with exten- sions to the ESMTP protocol to provide a complete message tracking solu- tion for the Internet. A URL for this Internet-Draft is: http://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-ietf-msgtrk-mtqp-01.txt Internet-Drafts are also available by anonymous FTP. Login with the username "anonymous" and a password of your e-mail address. After logging in, type "cd internet-drafts" and then "get draft-ietf-msgtrk-mtqp-01.txt". A list of Internet-Drafts directories can be found in http://www.ietf.org/shadow.html or ftp://ftp.ietf.org/ietf/1shadow-sites.txt Internet-Drafts can also be obtained by e-mail. Send a message to: mailserv@ietf.org. In the body type: "FILE /internet-drafts/draft-ietf-msgtrk-mtqp-01.txt". NOTE: The mail server at ietf.org can return the document in MIME-encoded form by using the "mpack" utility. To use this feature, insert the command "ENCODING mime" before the "FILE" command. To decode the response(s), you will need "munpack" or a MIME-compliant mail reader. Different MIME-compliant mail readers exhibit different behavior, especially when dealing with "multipart" MIME messages (i.e. documents which have been split up into multiple messages), so check your local documentation on how to manipulate these messages. Below is the data which will enable a MIME compliant mail reader implementation to automatically retrieve the ASCII version of the Internet-Draft. --NextPart Content-Type: Multipart/Alternative; Boundary="OtherAccess" --OtherAccess Content-Type: Message/External-body; access-type="mail-server"; server="mailserv@ietf.org" Content-Type: text/plain Content-ID: <20001130115129.I-D@ietf.org> ENCODING mime FILE /internet-drafts/draft-ietf-msgtrk-mtqp-01.txt --OtherAccess Content-Type: Message/External-body; name="draft-ietf-msgtrk-mtqp-01.txt"; site="ftp.ietf.org"; access-type="anon-ftp"; directory="internet-drafts" Content-Type: text/plain Content-ID: <20001130115129.I-D@ietf.org> --OtherAccess-- --NextPart-- From owner-ietf-msgtrk@mail.imc.org Mon Dec 4 05:07:53 2000 Received: from ns.secondary.com (ns.secondary.com [208.184.76.39]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with SMTP id FAA15406 for ; Mon, 4 Dec 2000 05:07:53 -0500 (EST) Received: by ns.secondary.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id BAA21925 for ietf-msgtrk-bks; Mon, 4 Dec 2000 01:44:00 -0800 (PST) Received: from mail.vlgm.unicel.ru ([194.186.245.36]) by ns.secondary.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id BAA21911 for ; Mon, 4 Dec 2000 01:43:56 -0800 (PST) Received: from mail.mindspring.com by vlgm.unicel.ru with SMTP (MDaemon.v2.8.7.4.R) for ; Sat, 02 Dec 2000 19:58:26 +0300 From: To: Date: Sat, 2 Dec 2000 08:18:13 Message-Id: <91.693433.754912@mail.mindspring.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-MDaemon-Deliver-To: ietf-msgtrk@imc.org X-Return-Path: asdasl@mail.izor.gr Reply-To: asdasl@server.izor.gr Sender: owner-ietf-msgtrk@mail.imc.org Precedence: bulk List-Archive: List-ID: List-Unsubscribe: Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit GET YOUR OWN 100 MEG WEBSITE FOR ONLY $11.95 PER MONTH TODAY! 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From owner-ietf-msgtrk@mail.imc.org Thu Dec 7 00:23:51 2000 Received: from ns.secondary.com (ns.secondary.com [208.184.76.39]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with SMTP id AAA13815 for ; Thu, 7 Dec 2000 00:23:51 -0500 (EST) Received: by ns.secondary.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id VAA24678 for ietf-msgtrk-bks; Wed, 6 Dec 2000 21:06:27 -0800 (PST) Received: from [165.227.249.17] (ip17.proper.com [165.227.249.17]) by ns.secondary.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id VAA24670 for ; Wed, 6 Dec 2000 21:06:26 -0800 (PST) Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Sender: phoffman@mail.imc.org Message-Id: Date: Wed, 6 Dec 2000 21:08:34 -0800 To: ietf-msgtrk@imc.org From: Paul Hoffman / IMC Subject: The list now has restricted posting Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed" Sender: owner-ietf-msgtrk@mail.imc.org Precedence: bulk List-Archive: List-ID: List-Unsubscribe: Gee, aren't spammers fun? The flux got too high. Anyhow, this list now only allows postings from people on the list. I'll watch for bounces and add people to the allowed-to-post list as quickly as I can. So, back to getting things done on the protocol! --Paul Hoffman, Director --Internet Mail Consortium From owner-ietf-msgtrk@mail.imc.org Wed Dec 13 17:04:33 2000 Received: from ns.secondary.com (ns.secondary.com [208.184.76.39]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with SMTP id RAA29798 for ; Wed, 13 Dec 2000 17:04:32 -0500 (EST) Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by ns.secondary.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id NAA22085 for ietf-msgtrk-bks; Wed, 13 Dec 2000 13:49:40 -0800 (PST) Received: from rembrandt.esys.ca (IDENT:root@rembrandt.esys.ca [198.161.92.131]) by ns.secondary.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id NAA22080 for ; Wed, 13 Dec 2000 13:49:38 -0800 (PST) Received: from messagingdirect.com (ietf.207.137.74.196.tx.verio.net [207.137.74.196]) (authenticated) by rembrandt.esys.ca (8.11.0.Beta0/8.11.0.Beta0) with ESMTP id eBDLqKv12984; Wed, 13 Dec 2000 14:52:20 -0700 Message-ID: <3A37EF93.C11B26B@messagingdirect.com> Date: Wed, 13 Dec 2000 13:52:19 -0800 From: Alexey Melnikov X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.74 [en] (Windows NT 5.0; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Message Tracking Working Group Subject: Message Tracking meeting notes Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="------------DA0BC6FFF6DBA0F1BA5D8F73" Sender: owner-ietf-msgtrk@mail.imc.org Precedence: bulk List-Archive: List-ID: List-Unsubscribe: This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --------------DA0BC6FFF6DBA0F1BA5D8F73 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=koi8-r Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I apologize in advance if I've misspelled any name or changed an author of an idea. All corrections/updates are welcome. Alexey --------------DA0BC6FFF6DBA0F1BA5D8F73 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=koi8-r; name="MessageTracking.txt" Content-Disposition: inline; filename="MessageTracking.txt" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Message Tracking Working Group, IETF 49, Tuesday, 11 December, 2000 Steve opened WG meeting and suggested that it was the last or at most one before the last meeting [1]. Administration: Steve: Some MTAs kill DSN (on Firewalls) Steve: No comments on model document in the mailing list, except for one private comment to Steve about previous SNMP work. [2]. Message Tracking Query Protocol: Open Issues: How to locate MTQP for a mail system: a). Initial Query Tony : use MX, if no MX ==> use A Steve: We use mail, so we are fine with MX (otherwise we should use SRV) Eric: If somebody wants MTQP on a different machine she can use referrals. Ned: What if (MTA?) server is down? Lyndon: Plus MX changing from time to time (load balancing) Steve/Ned: We can use submission record (or query MUA agent) Question arisen whether any MUAs uses MX directly. Answer: Spammers :-). Each hop will return the IP address/host name of the next hop. Consensus: don't document bootstrap process: either local configuration (submission record or static option) or MX will be used. This is up to implementation and thus outside of the scope of the docuement. b). Initial referrals (term different from model document) Some confusion about terminology. Two types of referrals: sidestep ("I do not maintain the tracking information for this host on this host. Query this other host for my tracking information."), next hop ("I delivered message to the following hop"). Ned: Can we use SRV records for sidestep referrals to eliminate referrals from the protocol? Steve: How good is SRV deployment. Ned: Last BIND contains SRV for several years. We are designing new protocol, so we can force the use of SRV. Consensus after some discussions: Initial referrals are not required, because they are not tied to any particular message. c). Following the path Group proposal after discussing "Initial referrals": Use SRV, if fails, fallback to A records (in the latter case you have to co-locate MTQP and SMTP) Randy: what about pool of servers that don't share tracking database? Larry: Use SRV for SMTP host used by previous hop (previous hop knows exactly to which server it sent message) Consensus: Agreement with Larry ***For how long should a message tracking information be kept? RFC1123 mandates 4-5 days retry period for SMTP. Tony: suggests to keep information for the period that is twice as long as SMTP period configured in particular MTA. Marshal: Having the period twice as long as specified in RFC1123 seems like a good idea. Ned: this is really a resource allocation issue on a server that keeps log. Consensus: Must define a minimum: SHOULD be 10 days, MUST be at least 1 day. ***What TCP port to use? Just ask IANA. IANA probably will not give us port we want anyway (submission protocol case was given as an example). We want to use a reserved port (i.e. <1024) ***Is the error code specification okay? Chris: send -BAD when client request STARTTLS when TLS in progress Alexey: Correct ABNF, missing response codes Alexey: Chris published the draft about response code theory, can it be used? ***Is security section sufficient? No feedback now, but there were a consensus that a lot of people must review the document. ***Interop event? Tony: If working group shuts down, we should have something. Mailconnect in March - maybe too early. Consensus: Too early to talk about. =================== Questions from the group: ***Chris: IDN consideration. Reject 8BIT? use UTF-8? Ned: Too early to address, must wait for IDN group. Steve: Side comment: DSN spec must be updated to use UTF-8? ***Chris: Text in error responses: can enumerate all cases, so we don't have to localize human readable text. Randy: "text in error response is not intended to be presented to the end user" ***Chris: Imagine a server that hosts multiple virtual domains using the same IP. Now if we use TLS we have to specify a certificate the server should use. Possible solutions: a). STARTTLS or b). Add DOMAIN command Another example when client should specify domain: unqualified usernames in [initial submission] SMTP (probably doesn't apply to our case anyway) Consensus: Not required for this protocol, because certificate for STARTTLS should match SRV record for the MTQP host. [3]. Message Tracking SMTP Extension: Overloading ENVID with MTRK extension: MUST be unique, MUST have the form unique@fqdn B=H(A), A - one time random number Chris: Concern about security ("A" used to be hash in the model document). Ned: Reference RFC for generating random numbers. Randy: lifetime for message tracking is short enough, so randomness of "A" is not that important. [4]. Message Tracking Status Notification (MTSN) Syntax: Syntax based on DSN/MDN Per-message fields: Original-Envelope-Id (required) Reporting-MTA (required) ArrivalDate (changed to required?) Per-recipient fields: Original-Recipient - optional as in DSN Final-Recipient - required Action - required Status - required (add "X.1.9 Message relayed to non-complaint mailer") Steve: Can we extend list of enchanced status codes in our documents? Ned: Why not. Eric: What about status codes collision? Greg: Other groups (VPIM) want to add other status codes, thus next revision can incorporate all changes Remote-MTA - optional (use for referrals using SRV records) Required if message has been passed on Steve: make Original-Recipient required. It is probably the most important piece of information. Greg: We can do that, because we have all required information from the SMTP extension. Last-Attempt-Date (optional) Will-Retry-Until (optional) ***7 bit versa 8 bit? - Dave Crocker: It is good that we steal from DSN, so deficiencies or solutions for the same problem will be at least consistent. ***Why we invent new MIME type and can't use multipart/report? Answer: don't have the part that contains message/headers and can't construct human readable part (because we already sent message to the next hop and don't have it anymore). ***Steve: How to do aggregation (for example chaining at firewalls), i.e. when the server returns multiple tracking reports? Lyndon: multipart/related with multiple reports inside Steve: I wish we can use XML :-) Eric: Can mandate every response to be multipart/report with 1 or more parts? Lazy programmers probably will not generate multipart/related in case of single part. Consensus: Agreement with Lyndon and Eric. ***Ned: If you implement MT..., do you have to implement DSN? Consensus: server MUST implement DSN [5]. Steve closed the meeting: Model document: will be informational RFC. Other docs: One revision in January, last call by the end of February 2001, before Minneapolis IETF. --------------DA0BC6FFF6DBA0F1BA5D8F73-- From owner-ietf-msgtrk@mail.imc.org Fri Dec 15 08:19:28 2000 Received: from ns.secondary.com (ns.secondary.com [208.184.76.39]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with SMTP id IAA03026 for ; Fri, 15 Dec 2000 08:19:28 -0500 (EST) Received: by ns.secondary.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id EAA12621 for ietf-msgtrk-bks; Fri, 15 Dec 2000 04:57:06 -0800 (PST) Received: from swordfish.nexor.co.uk (swordfish.nexor.co.uk [193.63.53.54]) by ns.secondary.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id EAA12615 for ; Fri, 15 Dec 2000 04:57:04 -0800 (PST) Received: by swordfish.nexor.co.uk with Internet Mail Service (5.5.2650.14) id ; Fri, 15 Dec 2000 12:58:44 -0000 Message-ID: <3130909C0878D4118010006008517A7C021262@swordfish.nexor.co.uk> From: Graeme Lunt To: Message Tracking Working Group Subject: RE: Message Tracking meeting notes Date: Fri, 15 Dec 2000 12:58:34 -0000 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.2650.14) Content-Type: text/plain; charset="koi8-r" Sender: owner-ietf-msgtrk@mail.imc.org Precedence: bulk List-Archive: List-ID: List-Unsubscribe: > I apologize in advance if I've misspelled any name or changed > an author of an idea. > > All corrections/updates are welcome. Hi - for those of us new to the group, and not present at the meeting, could you perhaps include a list of attendees at the meeting? Thanks, Graeme From owner-ietf-msgtrk@mail.imc.org Wed Dec 20 07:32:30 2000 Received: from ns.secondary.com (ns.secondary.com [208.184.76.39]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with SMTP id HAA21212 for ; Wed, 20 Dec 2000 07:32:29 -0500 (EST) Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by ns.secondary.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id EAA22227 for ietf-msgtrk-bks; Wed, 20 Dec 2000 04:14:48 -0800 (PST) Received: from ietf.org (odin.ietf.org [132.151.1.176]) by ns.secondary.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id EAA22223 for ; Wed, 20 Dec 2000 04:14:46 -0800 (PST) Received: from CNRI.Reston.VA.US (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id HAA20833; Wed, 20 Dec 2000 07:18:01 -0500 (EST) Message-Id: <200012201218.HAA20833@ietf.org> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: Multipart/Mixed; Boundary="NextPart" To: IETF-Announce: ; Cc: ietf-msgtrk@imc.org From: Internet-Drafts@ietf.org Reply-to: Internet-Drafts@ietf.org Subject: I-D ACTION:draft-ietf-msgtrk-smtpext-00.txt Date: Wed, 20 Dec 2000 07:18:01 -0500 Sender: owner-ietf-msgtrk@mail.imc.org Precedence: bulk List-Archive: List-ID: List-Unsubscribe: --NextPart A New Internet-Draft is available from the on-line Internet-Drafts directories. This draft is a work item of the Message Tracking Protocol Working Group of the IETF. Title : SMTP Service Extension for Message Tracking Author(s) : E. Allman, T. Hansen Filename : draft-ietf-msgtrk-smtpext-00.txt Pages : 7 Date : 19-Dec-00 This memo defines an extension to the SMTP service whereby a client may mark a message for future tracking. A URL for this Internet-Draft is: http://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-ietf-msgtrk-smtpext-00.txt Internet-Drafts are also available by anonymous FTP. Login with the username "anonymous" and a password of your e-mail address. After logging in, type "cd internet-drafts" and then "get draft-ietf-msgtrk-smtpext-00.txt". A list of Internet-Drafts directories can be found in http://www.ietf.org/shadow.html or ftp://ftp.ietf.org/ietf/1shadow-sites.txt Internet-Drafts can also be obtained by e-mail. Send a message to: mailserv@ietf.org. In the body type: "FILE /internet-drafts/draft-ietf-msgtrk-smtpext-00.txt". NOTE: The mail server at ietf.org can return the document in MIME-encoded form by using the "mpack" utility. To use this feature, insert the command "ENCODING mime" before the "FILE" command. To decode the response(s), you will need "munpack" or a MIME-compliant mail reader. Different MIME-compliant mail readers exhibit different behavior, especially when dealing with "multipart" MIME messages (i.e. documents which have been split up into multiple messages), so check your local documentation on how to manipulate these messages. Below is the data which will enable a MIME compliant mail reader implementation to automatically retrieve the ASCII version of the Internet-Draft. --NextPart Content-Type: Multipart/Alternative; Boundary="OtherAccess" --OtherAccess Content-Type: Message/External-body; access-type="mail-server"; server="mailserv@ietf.org" Content-Type: text/plain Content-ID: <20001219130948.I-D@ietf.org> ENCODING mime FILE /internet-drafts/draft-ietf-msgtrk-smtpext-00.txt --OtherAccess Content-Type: Message/External-body; name="draft-ietf-msgtrk-smtpext-00.txt"; site="ftp.ietf.org"; access-type="anon-ftp"; directory="internet-drafts" Content-Type: text/plain Content-ID: <20001219130948.I-D@ietf.org> --OtherAccess-- --NextPart-- From owner-ietf-msgtrk@mail.imc.org Wed Dec 20 07:39:25 2000 Received: from ns.secondary.com (ns.secondary.com [208.184.76.39]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with SMTP id HAA21465 for ; Wed, 20 Dec 2000 07:39:24 -0500 (EST) Received: by ns.secondary.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id EAA22235 for ietf-msgtrk-bks; Wed, 20 Dec 2000 04:14:53 -0800 (PST) Received: from ietf.org (odin.ietf.org [132.151.1.176]) by ns.secondary.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id EAA22231 for ; Wed, 20 Dec 2000 04:14:52 -0800 (PST) Received: from CNRI.Reston.VA.US (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id HAA20852; Wed, 20 Dec 2000 07:18:07 -0500 (EST) Message-Id: <200012201218.HAA20852@ietf.org> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: Multipart/Mixed; Boundary="NextPart" To: IETF-Announce: ; Cc: ietf-msgtrk@imc.org From: Internet-Drafts@ietf.org Reply-to: Internet-Drafts@ietf.org Subject: I-D ACTION:draft-ietf-msgtrk-trkstat-00.txt Date: Wed, 20 Dec 2000 07:18:07 -0500 Sender: owner-ietf-msgtrk@mail.imc.org Precedence: bulk List-Archive: List-ID: List-Unsubscribe: --NextPart A New Internet-Draft is available from the on-line Internet-Drafts directories. This draft is a work item of the Message Tracking Protocol Working Group of the IETF. Title : The Message/Tracking-Status MIME Extension Author(s) : E. Allman Filename : draft-ietf-msgtrk-trkstat-00.txt Pages : 8 Date : 19-Dec-00 Message Tracking is expected to be used to determine the sta- tus of undelivered e-mail upon request. Tracking is used in con- junction with Delivery Status Notifications [RFC-DSN-SMTP] and Mes- sage Disposition Notifications [RFC-MDN]; generally, a message tracking request will be issued only when a DSN or MDN has not been received within a reasonable timeout period. A URL for this Internet-Draft is: http://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-ietf-msgtrk-trkstat-00.txt Internet-Drafts are also available by anonymous FTP. Login with the username "anonymous" and a password of your e-mail address. After logging in, type "cd internet-drafts" and then "get draft-ietf-msgtrk-trkstat-00.txt". A list of Internet-Drafts directories can be found in http://www.ietf.org/shadow.html or ftp://ftp.ietf.org/ietf/1shadow-sites.txt Internet-Drafts can also be obtained by e-mail. Send a message to: mailserv@ietf.org. In the body type: "FILE /internet-drafts/draft-ietf-msgtrk-trkstat-00.txt". NOTE: The mail server at ietf.org can return the document in MIME-encoded form by using the "mpack" utility. To use this feature, insert the command "ENCODING mime" before the "FILE" command. To decode the response(s), you will need "munpack" or a MIME-compliant mail reader. Different MIME-compliant mail readers exhibit different behavior, especially when dealing with "multipart" MIME messages (i.e. documents which have been split up into multiple messages), so check your local documentation on how to manipulate these messages. Below is the data which will enable a MIME compliant mail reader implementation to automatically retrieve the ASCII version of the Internet-Draft. --NextPart Content-Type: Multipart/Alternative; Boundary="OtherAccess" --OtherAccess Content-Type: Message/External-body; access-type="mail-server"; server="mailserv@ietf.org" Content-Type: text/plain Content-ID: <20001219130958.I-D@ietf.org> ENCODING mime FILE /internet-drafts/draft-ietf-msgtrk-trkstat-00.txt --OtherAccess Content-Type: Message/External-body; name="draft-ietf-msgtrk-trkstat-00.txt"; site="ftp.ietf.org"; access-type="anon-ftp"; directory="internet-drafts" Content-Type: text/plain Content-ID: <20001219130958.I-D@ietf.org> --OtherAccess-- --NextPart--