Subject: [netmod] individiual drafts deadline

From: "David Harrington" <[email-masked]>
Date: Wed, 21 May 2008 12:15:18 -0400

Hi,

Our first milestone:
Jun 2008    All _individual_ drafts available that will be used as
input into the WG documents (draft-bjorklund-yang, architecture draft,
YIN draft, YANG standard library draft, DSDL mapping rules draft)  

The Yang draft has been published.
We need to get the other drafts published as individual drafts. 
Deadlines are starting to creep closer.
June is only 10 days away.

If you plan to contribute an individual draft toward these
deliverables, please do so soon.

David Harrington
[email-masked]
[email-masked]
[email-masked]

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---

From: Martin Bjorklund <[email-masked]>
Date: Wed, 21 May 2008 20:30:28 +0200 (CEST)

Hi,

> The Yang draft has been published.

This draft currently contains YANG, YIN and the standard library
part.  I have split the standard library part out into a separate
draft (not yet published), but for the YIN part I would like to know
what the WG thinks.  I have heard some opinions that it should be a
separate document, and some that it should be in kept in the YANG
document.

As for the DSDL mapping, I believe there is a bug in the charter - the
initial version of this draft is scheduled for Jun _and_ Sep.  I think
Sep is the correct date.

/martin

---

From: "David Harrington" <[email-masked]>
Date: Wed, 21 May 2008 15:49:22 -0400

Hi,

speaking as co-chair ...

Our charter calls for all drafts to be first published as individual,
and then discussed in Dublin, before being published as WG -00-
drafts. The Jun deadline is for individual drafts. The Aug date refers
to the -00- WG drafts, after the WG has agreed the individual drafts
should be adopted as WG drafts.

The chairs approved the YANG-00 draft already because the charter
states that the WG will use YANG (draft-bjorklund-yang) as its
starting point for the human friendly language. The other drafts
should be first published as individual drafts.

It is unclear what the Sep 2008 deadline refers to, since DSDL is also
listed as having Jun and Aug deadlines. I think we should use the Jun
and Aug deadlines. Rohan expressed an interest in writing the first
DSDL draft. He expects to become unavailable later in the year, so we
should try to have the individual draft ready by June so we have
plenty of time to discuss it while he is still available.

David Harrington
[email-masked]
[email-masked]
[email-masked]

> -----Original Message-----
> From: Martin Bjorklund [mailto:[email-masked]] 
> Sent: Wednesday, May 21, 2008 2:30 PM
> To: [email-masked]
> Cc: [email-masked]
> Subject: Re: [netmod] individiual drafts deadline
> 
> Hi,
>

---

From: "David Harrington" <[email-masked]>
Date: Wed, 21 May 2008 16:04:50 -0400

Hi,

speaking as co-chair ...

> separate document, and some that it should be in kept in the YANG

The charter calls for a separate docuemnt, and we have consensus on
the charter. I checked the netmod, NGO, rcdml, and ietf archives
looking for consensus that YIN should be kept in the YANG draft. I did
not see enough discussion of this to justify claiming a concensus to
override the charter. I saw lots of consensus that it should be listed
as a separate charter item.

Anybody that has an opinon about keeping YIN in the YANG document
versus separating it, please speak up. The chairs will consider the WG
input and make a decision.

David Harrington
[email-masked]
[email-masked]
[email-masked]

---

From: Phil Shafer <[email-masked]>
Date: Thu, 22 May 2008 00:53:43 -0400

"David Harrington" writes:
>the charter.

I thought the charter gave us freedom to control this:

   The working group may choose to combine multiple deliverables
   into a single document where deemed appropriate.

>input and make a decision.

+1 to keep it in a single document.

Thanks,
 Phil

---

From: Ladislav Lhotka <[email-masked]>
Date: Thu, 22 May 2008 10:04:49 +0200

> initial version of this draft is scheduled for Jun _and_ Sep.  I think

Would it be useful to publish now draft-mahy-canmod-dsdl-01 as a WG
draft now, more or less as it is? Otherwise, I also think September is
the correct deadline.

Lada

-- 
Ladislav Lhotka, CESNET
PGP Key ID: E74E8C0C

---

From: Ladislav Lhotka <[email-masked]>
Date: Thu, 22 May 2008 09:55:34 +0200

> input and make a decision.

IMO YANG and YIN should be treated as two facets of the same thing, so
+1 for keeping them in the same document.

Lada

-- 
Ladislav Lhotka, CESNET
PGP Key ID: E74E8C0C

---

From: Martin Bjorklund <[email-masked]>
Date: Thu, 22 May 2008 13:01:56 +0200 (CEST)

> +1 for keeping them in the same document.

+1.  I don't think that the YIN mapping document will evolve
separately from the main document (like the DSDL-mapping document may
do), and it's not a lot of text that clutters the main document.

If we do keep it in the same document, I think it should be moved from
an appendix into its own section.  I don't know why it is in an
appendix today...

/martin

---

From: Martin Bjorklund <[email-masked]>
Date: Thu, 22 May 2008 13:05:12 +0200 (CEST)

Ladislav Lhotka <[email-masked]> wrote:
> draft now, more or less as it is? 

I don't think so, simply because this draft does not define a mapping
of YANG to DSDL.  (The mapping document will probably re-use large
parts of this document though).

/martin

---

From: "David Harrington" <[email-masked]>
Date: Thu, 22 May 2008 07:56:28 -0400

Hi Phil,

if we didn't have the freedom to control this, I wouldn't be asking
for input.
So far, we have not seen enough discussion of this to determine what
the WG wants to do.

dbh 

> From: Phil Shafer [mailto:[email-masked]] 
> Sent: Thursday, May 22, 2008 12:54 AM
> To: David Harrington
> Cc: 'Martin Bjorklund'; [email-masked]
> Subject: Re: [netmod] YIN as separate document 
>

---

From: Martin Bjorklund <[email-masked]>
Date: Thu, 22 May 2008 14:02:57 +0200 (CEST)

Hi,

> should be first published as individual drafts.

Does this mean that the standard derived types draft should be
published as an individual draft first, or did you refer to dsdl and
arch. when you said 'other'?

/martin

---

From: "David Harrington" <[email-masked]>
Date: Thu, 22 May 2008 08:27:59 -0400

Hi,

yes. The standard types draft should also be published as an
individual draft first. 

It's an administrative thing, to ensure an open and fair process.

dbh 

> Sent: Thursday, May 22, 2008 8:03 AM
> To: [email-masked]
> Cc: [email-masked]

---

From: Juergen Schoenwaelder <[email-masked]>
Date: Thu, 22 May 2008 14:38:56 +0200

> +1 to keep it in a single document.

+1

/js

-- 
Juergen Schoenwaelder           Jacobs University Bremen gGmbH
Phone: +49 421 200 3587         Campus Ring 1, 28759 Bremen, Germany
Fax:   +49 421 200 3103         <http://www.jacobs-university.de/>
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---

From: Juergen Schoenwaelder <[email-masked]>
Date: Thu, 22 May 2008 15:09:13 +0200

> yes. The standard types draft should also be published as an

I have submitted <draft-schoenw-netmod-yang-types-00> for
(re-)consideration by the working group. Despite a few bug fixes and
some editorial changes, the content of the document is identical with
the data type definitions contained in <draft-ietf-netmod-yang-00>.

/js

PS: It might take a while until the document pops up since the ID
    submission tool has stopped to work for me and so the document
    must be processed manually.

---

From: "David Harrington" <[email-masked]>
Date: Thu, 22 May 2008 10:47:15 -0400

Thank you,

dbh 

> From: Juergen Schoenwaelder 
> [mailto:[email-masked]] 
> Sent: Thursday, May 22, 2008 9:09 AM
> To: David Harrington

---

From: "David Harrington" <[email-masked]>
Date: Fri, 23 May 2008 08:34:35 -0400

Hi,

I don't think the current draft provides a mapping from YANG to DSDL.
We need a mapping document.

I think we need it soon so the WG, not just the editor, can see the
scope of the problem, and start to work on proposing the mappings. We
have a WG to contribute to the effort, so we should not expect just
the editor to do all the work on this. The initial version does not
not need to map everything that YANG can do now, just start the
process.

I would like to see an individual draft published by the June
deadline.

David Harrington
[email-masked]
[email-masked]
[email-masked]

> From: [email-masked] 
> [mailto:[email-masked]] On Behalf Of Ladislav Lhotka
> Sent: Thursday, May 22, 2008 4:05 AM
> To: [email-masked]

---

From: Ladislav Lhotka <[email-masked]>
Date: Fri, 23 May 2008 15:53:38 +0200

Hi Dave,

during the last two months or so I've been working on a program that
does the translation. It can now handle most of the stuff that can be
represented in RELAX NG but no Schematron or anything else yet. I could
describe the algorithm in a draft, if you think it would be useful.

Lada

-- 
Ladislav Lhotka, CESNET
PGP Key ID: E74E8C0C

---

From: Juergen Schoenwaelder <[email-masked]>
Date: Fri, 23 May 2008 17:36:51 +0200

> describe the algorithm in a draft, if you think it would be useful.

Your program translates from YANG to Relax NG or from Relax NG to YANG
or both?

/js

---

From: "David Harrington" <[email-masked]>
Date: Fri, 23 May 2008 11:59:39 -0400

Hi,

I think that would be useful.
I also welcome other YANG-RelaxNG drafts, (and other individual drafts
toward the chartered deliverables) and the WG might decide multiple
individual drafts should be combined to create the chartered WG
drafts.
Don't worry about creating a perfect draft; focus on documenting the
ideas, and we'll worry about perfecting a WG draft later.

Thanks,
dbh 

> From: Ladislav Lhotka [mailto:[email-masked]] 
> Sent: Friday, May 23, 2008 9:54 AM
> To: David Harrington
> Cc: [email-masked]
> Subject: RE: [netmod] individiual drafts deadline
> 
> Hi Dave,
> 
> > > draft now, more or less as it is? Otherwise, I also think 
> September
> > is
> > > the correct deadline.
> > > 
> > > Lada
> > > 
> > > -- 
> > > Ladislav Lhotka, CESNET
> > > PGP Key ID: E74E8C0C
> > >

---

From: Ladislav Lhotka <[email-masked]>
Date: Fri, 23 May 2008 19:39:29 +0200

> Your program translates from YANG to Relax NG or from Relax NG to YANG

YANG to RELAX NG.

Lada

-- 
Ladislav Lhotka, CESNET
PGP Key ID: E74E8C0C