From netmod-bounces@ietf.org Fri Jan 2 04:08:27 2009 Return-Path: X-Original-To: netmod-archive@ietf.org Delivered-To: ietfarch-netmod-archive@core3.amsl.com Received: from [127.0.0.1] (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 115623A6856; Fri, 2 Jan 2009 04:08:27 -0800 (PST) X-Original-To: netmod@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: netmod@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1C8C13A6866 for ; Fri, 2 Jan 2009 04:08:26 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.041 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.041 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=0.209, BAYES_00=-2.599, HELO_EQ_CZ=0.445, HOST_EQ_CZ=0.904] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 8hHw7X7W29YB for ; Fri, 2 Jan 2009 04:08:25 -0800 (PST) Received: from office2.cesnet.cz (office2.cesnet.cz [195.113.144.244]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id D308E3A6856 for ; Fri, 2 Jan 2009 04:08:24 -0800 (PST) Received: from [172.29.2.201] (asus-gx.lhotka.cesnet.cz [195.113.161.161]) by office2.cesnet.cz (Postfix) with ESMTP id D2CA8D800BD for ; Fri, 2 Jan 2009 13:08:11 +0100 (CET) From: Ladislav Lhotka To: netmod@ietf.org In-Reply-To: <20081229.095715.28694997.mbj@tail-f.com> References: <4951803E.8030009@netconfcentral.com> <20081229.095715.28694997.mbj@tail-f.com> Organization: CESNET Date: Fri, 02 Jan 2009 13:08:11 +0100 Message-Id: <1230898091.6354.10.camel@missotis> Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Evolution 2.22.3.1 Subject: Re: [netmod] container netconf X-BeenThere: netmod@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.9 Precedence: list List-Id: NETMOD WG list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 Sender: netmod-bounces@ietf.org Errors-To: netmod-bounces@ietf.org TWFydGluIEJqb3JrbHVuZCBww63FoWUgdiBQbyAyOS4gMTIuIDIwMDggdiAwOTo1NyArMDEwMDoK PiA+IAo+ID4gRXZlcnkgTkVUQ09ORiBtb2RlbCAocm9vdGVkIHVuZGVyIC9uZXRjb25mKSBpcyBn b2luZwo+ID4gdG8gaGF2ZSB0byBhdWdtZW50IHRoZSBub3RpZmljYXRpb25zIGRhdGEgbW9kZWwu Cj4gPiBUaGF0IGRvZXNuJ3Qgc2VlbSB2ZXJ5IGNsZWFuLCBidXQgbXVsdGlwbGUgL25ldGNvbmYg Y29udGFpbmVycwo+ID4gaW4gZGlmZmVyZW50IFhNTCBuYW1lc3BhY2VzIGlzIGV2ZW4gd29yc2Uu Cj4gPiAKPiA+IFN1Z2dlc3Rpb25zIHRvIGNsZWFuIHRoaXMgbWVzcyB1cCBiZWZvcmUgaXQgc3Rh cnRzPwo+IAo+IFRoYXQgd291bGQgYmUgbmljZSwgYW5kIEkgYmVsaWV2ZSB0aGF0IFNoYXJvbidz IGludGVudGlvbiBoYXMgYWx3YXlzCj4gYmVlbiB0byBoYXZlIGEgc2luZ2xlICduZXRjb25mJyBj b250YWluZXIuCj4gCj4gSG93ZXZlciwgd2UncmUgc29ydCBvZiBzdHVjayB3aXRoIHRoZSBsaW1p dGF0aW9ucyBvZiBYU0QuICBZQU5HIGlzCj4gZGVzaWduZWQgdG8gaGFuZGxlIHRoaXMgc2l0dWF0 aW9uLCBidXQgdGhlIFlBTkcgbW9kZWxzIGFyZQo+IG5vbi1ub3JtYXRpdmUuCgpPbiB0aGUgb3Ro ZXIgaGFuZCwgdGhpcyBpcyBhIHR5cGljYWwgYXBwbGljYXRpb24gZm9yIE5WREwsIHNlZSBmb3IK ZXhhbXBsZSB0aGlzIHBhcGVyOgpodHRwOi8vMjAwNy54dGVjaC5vcmcvcHVibGljL3NjaGVkdWxl L2RldGFpbC80OAoKTGFkYQoKPiAKPiBBc3N1bWluZyB3ZSBjYW5ub3QgY2hhbmdlIHRoZSBzdHJ1 Y3R1cmUgb2YgdGhlIGRhdGEgbW9kZWwgaW4gdGhlCj4gbm90aWZpY2F0aW9uIFJGQywgYW5kIHRo YXQgd2Ugd2FudCBvbmUgc2luZ2xlICduZXRjb25mJyBjb250YWluZXIsIGl0Cj4gd291bGQgaGF2 ZSB0byBiZSBjYWxsZWQ6Cj4gCj4gICAge3VybjppZXRmOnBhcmFtczp4bWw6bnM6bmV0bW9kOm5v dGlmaWNhdGlvbn1uZXRjb25mCj4gCj4gd2hpY2ggaXMgbm90IG9wdGltYWwuLi4KPiAKPiBBbnl3 YXksIGhlcmUgYXJlIGEgZmV3IGFsdGVybmF0aXZlczoKPiAKPiAgIDEpICBBZGQgYSBzdWJzdGl0 aW9uR3JvdXAgdG8gdGhlICduZXRjb25mJyBlbGVtZW50LCBhcyBhbiBlcnJhdGEgdG8KPiAgICAg ICByZmMgNTI3Ny4gICBUaGUgbW9uaXRvcmluZyBzY2hlbWEgd291bGQgdGhlbiB1c2UgdGhpcwo+ ICAgICAgIHN1YnN0aXRpb25Hcm91cC4KPiAKPiAgIDIpICBBcyBhbiBlcnJhdGEgdG8gNTI3Nywg YWRkIHRleHQgdGhhdCBleHBsYWlucyB0aGF0IHRoZSBYU0QgaXMKPiAgICAgICBzdXBwb3NlZCB0 byBiZSBjb21wbGV0ZWx5IG9wZW4gKDxvcGVuQ29udGVudD4gaW4gWFNEIDEuMSkgIFRoZQo+ICAg ICAgIG1vbml0b3Jpbmcgc2NoZW1hIHdvdWxkIHRoZW4gaGF2ZSB0ZXh0IHRoYXQgZXhwbGFpbnMg dGhhdCB0aGUKPiAgICAgICBjb250ZW50cyB3b3VsZCBnbyB1bmRlciB0aGUKPiAgICAgICB7dXJu OmlldGY6cGFyYW1zOnhtbDpuczpuZXRtb2Q6bm90aWZpY2F0aW9ufW5ldGNvbmYgZWxlbWVudC4K PiAKPiAgIDMpICBMaXZlIHdpdGggaXQsIGFuZCBkbyBiZXR0ZXIgbmV4dCB0aW1lLiAgTWF5YmUg YXMgc29vbiBhcyBpbiB0aGUKPiAgICAgICBtb25pdG9yaW5nIHNwZWMgLSBpdCBjb3VsZCBkZWZp bmUgYSBzaW1wbGUgc2NoZW1hIC8gWUFORyBtb2R1bGUKPiAgICAgICB3aXRoIGEgc2luZ2xlICdu ZXRjb25mJyBjb250YWluZXIgaW4gYSBnZW5lcmljIG5hbWVzcGFjZSwgYW5kCj4gICAgICAgdGhl biBhdWdtZW50IHRoaXMgY29udGFpbmVyIHdpdGggdGhlIG1vbml0b3Jpbmcgc3R1ZmYuICAgV2hl biB3ZQo+ICAgICAgIGRvIHRoZSB0aGlyZCBkYXRhIG1vZGVsIGZvciBuZXRjb25mLCB3ZSB3aWxs IHRoZW4gaGF2ZSB0aGlzCj4gICAgICAgJ25ldGNvbmYnIGNvbnRhaW5lciBlbGVtZW50IGluIHBs YWNlLgo+IAo+IAo+IEJ1dCB0aGVyZSBhcmUgc3RpbGwgYSBjb3VwbGUgb2YgdW5hbnN3ZXJlZCBx dWVzdGlvbnMgLSBzaG91bGQgd2UgaGF2ZQo+IG9uZSAnbmV0Y29uZicgY29udGFpbmVyIGZvciBj b25maWcgYW5kIG9uZSBmb3Igb3BlcmF0aW9uYWwgZGF0YT8gIElmCj4gd2UgaGF2ZSBvbmUgc2lu Z2xlIGNvbnRhaW5lciBmb3IgYm90aCBraW5kcywgc2hvdWxkIHdlIGhhdmUgdHdvCj4gZGlzdGlu Y3Qgc3VidHJlZXMgdW5kZXJuZWF0aCB0aGF0IG9uZT8KPiAKPiAKPiAvbWFydGluCj4gX19fX19f X19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX18KPiBuZXRtb2QgbWFpbGlu ZyBsaXN0Cj4gbmV0bW9kQGlldGYub3JnCj4gaHR0cHM6Ly93d3cuaWV0Zi5vcmcvbWFpbG1hbi9s aXN0aW5mby9uZXRtb2QKLS0gCkxhZGlzbGF2IExob3RrYSwgQ0VTTkVUClBHUCBLZXkgSUQ6IEU3 NEU4QzBDCgpfX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fXwpu ZXRtb2QgbWFpbGluZyBsaXN0Cm5ldG1vZEBpZXRmLm9yZwpodHRwczovL3d3dy5pZXRmLm9yZy9t YWlsbWFuL2xpc3RpbmZvL25ldG1vZAo= From netmod-bounces@ietf.org Fri Jan 2 08:58:44 2009 Return-Path: X-Original-To: netmod-archive@ietf.org Delivered-To: ietfarch-netmod-archive@core3.amsl.com Received: from [127.0.0.1] (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id B68AC3A6825; Fri, 2 Jan 2009 08:58:44 -0800 (PST) X-Original-To: netmod@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: netmod@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 255F93A68D2 for ; Fri, 2 Jan 2009 08:58:44 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.179 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.179 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=0.086, BAYES_00=-2.599, IP_NOT_FRIENDLY=0.334] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 87tad7WxOOaB for ; Fri, 2 Jan 2009 08:58:43 -0800 (PST) Received: from smtp119.sbc.mail.sp1.yahoo.com (smtp119.sbc.mail.sp1.yahoo.com [69.147.64.92]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with SMTP id D33CF3A6825 for ; Fri, 2 Jan 2009 08:58:42 -0800 (PST) Received: (qmail 58743 invoked from network); 2 Jan 2009 16:58:30 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO ?127.0.0.1?) (andy@68.120.68.180 with plain) by smtp119.sbc.mail.sp1.yahoo.com with SMTP; 2 Jan 2009 16:58:29 -0000 X-YMail-OSG: RfJb4nIVM1nHCvAIO6iPhL.JCRjhe1fU239mAAvy2WRsgUPBQKqQ36P5y1ypRhZubqdCpEr2Jgw3V85u.a0OKAPQwSae1BisJSVf4J_iL4Qpq1Ej33U99ioDp8B14_Xu6MFpyAVpfMJExZ6y5RMQ0r8o92Ga8F55P89Bv2jkKkMxruioDwHfFLck X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: ymail-3 Message-ID: <495E47B3.2050807@netconfcentral.com> Date: Fri, 02 Jan 2009 08:58:27 -0800 From: Andy Bierman User-Agent: Thunderbird 2.0.0.19 (Windows/20081209) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Ladislav Lhotka References: <4951803E.8030009@netconfcentral.com> <20081229.095715.28694997.mbj@tail-f.com> <1230898091.6354.10.camel@missotis> In-Reply-To: <1230898091.6354.10.camel@missotis> Cc: netmod@ietf.org Subject: Re: [netmod] container netconf X-BeenThere: netmod@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.9 Precedence: list List-Id: NETMOD WG list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 Content-Type: text/plain; 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ZXR0ZXIgbmV4dCB0aW1lLiAgTWF5YmUgYXMgc29vbiBhcyBpbiB0aGUKPj4gICAgICAgbW9uaXRv cmluZyBzcGVjIC0gaXQgY291bGQgZGVmaW5lIGEgc2ltcGxlIHNjaGVtYSAvIFlBTkcgbW9kdWxl Cj4+ICAgICAgIHdpdGggYSBzaW5nbGUgJ25ldGNvbmYnIGNvbnRhaW5lciBpbiBhIGdlbmVyaWMg bmFtZXNwYWNlLCBhbmQKPj4gICAgICAgdGhlbiBhdWdtZW50IHRoaXMgY29udGFpbmVyIHdpdGgg dGhlIG1vbml0b3Jpbmcgc3R1ZmYuICAgV2hlbiB3ZQo+PiAgICAgICBkbyB0aGUgdGhpcmQgZGF0 YSBtb2RlbCBmb3IgbmV0Y29uZiwgd2Ugd2lsbCB0aGVuIGhhdmUgdGhpcwo+PiAgICAgICAnbmV0 Y29uZicgY29udGFpbmVyIGVsZW1lbnQgaW4gcGxhY2UuCj4+Cj4+Cj4+IEJ1dCB0aGVyZSBhcmUg c3RpbGwgYSBjb3VwbGUgb2YgdW5hbnN3ZXJlZCBxdWVzdGlvbnMgLSBzaG91bGQgd2UgaGF2ZQo+ PiBvbmUgJ25ldGNvbmYnIGNvbnRhaW5lciBmb3IgY29uZmlnIGFuZCBvbmUgZm9yIG9wZXJhdGlv bmFsIGRhdGE/ICBJZgo+PiB3ZSBoYXZlIG9uZSBzaW5nbGUgY29udGFpbmVyIGZvciBib3RoIGtp bmRzLCBzaG91bGQgd2UgaGF2ZSB0d28KPj4gZGlzdGluY3Qgc3VidHJlZXMgdW5kZXJuZWF0aCB0 aGF0IG9uZT8KPj4KPj4KPj4gL21hcnRpbgo+PiBfX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19f X19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fXwo+PiBuZXRtb2QgbWFpbGluZyBsaXN0Cj4+IG5ldG1vZEBpZXRm Lm9yZwo+PiBodHRwczovL3d3dy5pZXRmLm9yZy9tYWlsbWFuL2xpc3RpbmZvL25ldG1vZAoKCl9f X19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fCm5ldG1vZCBtYWls aW5nIGxpc3QKbmV0bW9kQGlldGYub3JnCmh0dHBzOi8vd3d3LmlldGYub3JnL21haWxtYW4vbGlz dGluZm8vbmV0bW9kCg== From netmod-bounces@ietf.org Fri Jan 2 09:28:41 2009 Return-Path: X-Original-To: netmod-archive@ietf.org Delivered-To: ietfarch-netmod-archive@core3.amsl.com Received: from [127.0.0.1] (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id E18443A6866; Fri, 2 Jan 2009 09:28:41 -0800 (PST) X-Original-To: netmod@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: netmod@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id A82473A6866 for ; Fri, 2 Jan 2009 09:28:40 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.599 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.599 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-2.599] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id YGHQMyGUUz3Z for ; Fri, 2 Jan 2009 09:28:39 -0800 (PST) Received: from QMTA06.westchester.pa.mail.comcast.net (qmta06.westchester.pa.mail.comcast.net [76.96.62.56]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5870D3A67C1 for ; Fri, 2 Jan 2009 09:28:39 -0800 (PST) Received: from OMTA12.westchester.pa.mail.comcast.net ([76.96.62.44]) by QMTA06.westchester.pa.mail.comcast.net with comcast id yfaU1a0020xGWP856hUUqT; Fri, 02 Jan 2009 17:28:28 +0000 Received: from Harrington73653 ([71.254.111.54]) by OMTA12.westchester.pa.mail.comcast.net with comcast id yhTw1a00B1AUH0v3YhU1Qg; Fri, 02 Jan 2009 17:28:22 +0000 From: "David Harrington" To: "'Andy Bierman'" , "'Ladislav Lhotka'" References: <4951803E.8030009@netconfcentral.com> <20081229.095715.28694997.mbj@tail-f.com><1230898091.6354.10.camel@missotis> <495E47B3.2050807@netconfcentral.com> Date: Fri, 2 Jan 2009 12:27:54 -0500 Message-ID: <001101c96cff$8216c380$6905a8c0@china.huawei.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Microsoft Office Outlook 11 In-Reply-To: <495E47B3.2050807@netconfcentral.com> Thread-Index: Acls+1lxzHoQeVchRG2Vwu/pR+NS/AAAncsg X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.3198 Cc: netmod@ietf.org Subject: Re: [netmod] container netconf X-BeenThere: netmod@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.9 Precedence: list List-Id: NETMOD WG list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-2" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Sender: netmod-bounces@ietf.org Errors-To: netmod-bounces@ietf.org Hi, Some comments from SNMP-land: We tried separating SNMP into a separate subtree, paralel to mib-2, and did not find it that useful. Subsequently, we recommned keeping everything under mib-2, whether it is SNMP-protocol-specific or not. I am not sure having a separate XML subtree for netconf-protocol config will be found to be useful. For a purely technical backwards-compatibility reason, mib modules are now recommended to use a subtree for notifications, another for objects, and a third for conformance, under the mib module registration. It might be good to standardize something similar for netconf. It might have been useful to separate config info from state info in mib modules, but we never found it justified, given that we only had read-only vs read-write to distinguish the two. Since netconf does a better job of separation, this might be useful in nnetconf models. = Of course, netconf could create a netconf/notifications/subtree and a netcoinf/config subtree and a netconf/state subtree and then require modules to register as a notification model, a config model, or a state model. dbh > -----Original Message----- > From: netmod-bounces@ietf.org = > [mailto:netmod-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of Andy Bierman > Sent: Friday, January 02, 2009 11:58 AM > To: Ladislav Lhotka > Cc: netmod@ietf.org > Subject: Re: [netmod] container netconf > = > Ladislav Lhotka wrote: > > Martin Bjorklund p=ED=B9e v Po 29. 12. 2008 v 09:57 +0100: > >>> Every NETCONF model (rooted under /netconf) is going > >>> to have to augment the notifications data model. > >>> That doesn't seem very clean, but multiple /netconf containers > >>> in different XML namespaces is even worse. > >>> > >>> Suggestions to clean this mess up before it starts? > >> That would be nice, and I believe that Sharon's intention = > has always > >> been to have a single 'netconf' container. > >> > = > = > This is where the difference between good intentions > and good experience starts to show up, and why we > need to get started with NETMOD, on the right track. > = > Q wrap-up: > = > 1) Is the netconf root a presence container or an NP container? > Since we defined no meaning for the root, it must be NP. > = > 2) Can the errata process be used to adjust the XSD as > Martin suggests? (adding a 'netconf-component' substitution > group that other XSDs can use, to match the YANG augment). > = > 3) Should there be separate roots, one for monitoring > (the existing one) and another one for configuring the > NETCONF protocol? (if and when that is needed) > = > 4) What is the right way to organize the NETCONF MIB tree? > IMO, separating non-config is really going against the grain wrt/ > aggressively hierarchical nature of XML. I prefer > one subtree for the 'foo service' containing everything > there is to know about that service. OID values in SMIv2 > are totally random and have no semantics. I still cannot > remember any of them by heart after 20 years. > But "/interfaces/interface/ifMtu" could not be more clear. > Scattering data randomly (over time) will ruin this important > feature of XML. > = > = > Andy > = > = > >> However, we're sort of stuck with the limitations of XSD. YANG is > >> designed to handle this situation, but the YANG models are > >> non-normative. > > = > > On the other hand, this is a typical application for NVDL, see for > > example this paper: > > http://2007.xtech.org/public/schedule/detail/48 > > = > > Lada > > = > >> Assuming we cannot change the structure of the data model in the > >> notification RFC, and that we want one single 'netconf' = > container, it > >> would have to be called: > >> > >> {urn:ietf:params:xml:ns:netmod:notification}netconf > >> > >> which is not optimal... > >> > >> Anyway, here are a few alternatives: > >> > >> 1) Add a substitionGroup to the 'netconf' element, as = > an errata to > >> rfc 5277. The monitoring schema would then use this > >> substitionGroup. > >> > >> 2) As an errata to 5277, add text that explains that the XSD is > >> supposed to be completely open ( in XSD = > 1.1) The > >> monitoring schema would then have text that explains that the > >> contents would go under the > >> {urn:ietf:params:xml:ns:netmod:notification}netconf element. > >> > >> 3) Live with it, and do better next time. Maybe as = > soon as in the > >> monitoring spec - it could define a simple schema / = > YANG module > >> with a single 'netconf' container in a generic namespace, and > >> then augment this container with the monitoring = > stuff. When we > >> do the third data model for netconf, we will then have this > >> 'netconf' container element in place. > >> > >> > >> But there are still a couple of unanswered questions - = > should we have > >> one 'netconf' container for config and one for operational = > data? If > >> we have one single container for both kinds, should we have two > >> distinct subtrees underneath that one? > >> > >> > >> /martin > >> _______________________________________________ > >> netmod mailing list > >> netmod@ietf.org > >> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/netmod > = > = > _______________________________________________ > netmod mailing list > netmod@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/netmod > = _______________________________________________ netmod mailing list netmod@ietf.org https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/netmod From netmod-bounces@ietf.org Fri Jan 2 10:55:36 2009 Return-Path: X-Original-To: netmod-archive@ietf.org Delivered-To: ietfarch-netmod-archive@core3.amsl.com Received: from [127.0.0.1] (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 791853A66B4; Fri, 2 Jan 2009 10:55:36 -0800 (PST) X-Original-To: netmod@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: netmod@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id D3FD53A6837 for ; Fri, 2 Jan 2009 10:55:34 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.181 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.181 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=0.084, BAYES_00=-2.599, IP_NOT_FRIENDLY=0.334] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id G9d1Pev1+HZG for ; Fri, 2 Jan 2009 10:55:33 -0800 (PST) Received: from smtp117.sbc.mail.sp1.yahoo.com (smtp117.sbc.mail.sp1.yahoo.com [69.147.64.90]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with SMTP id A648E3A66B4 for ; Fri, 2 Jan 2009 10:55:33 -0800 (PST) Received: (qmail 60550 invoked from network); 2 Jan 2009 18:55:21 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO ?127.0.0.1?) (andy@68.120.68.180 with plain) by smtp117.sbc.mail.sp1.yahoo.com with SMTP; 2 Jan 2009 18:55:19 -0000 X-YMail-OSG: zQPmwZMVM1mNFxx4iiwl6i6.vKYvtcEu2L0Zz4Qqh5bxZf3p4TuRj4me4z_huTQeiEpofDRmU_AOQ0g4_FxKxmaVhInk4pK0bu_FCes6EVi_E0Xcd9nGfXH.JtUNO_fnhC3o2hdJdIKW9oLkJ3ftCllDGIA6txBdaQkS0axHoGhdV0Wsj19_zcOiLEKKpnlDUf015UoJ6A_s0440WfJNVmPGtQozbuHaEh1ZQGTNv5i_sh50xe.R0_MrRffZAALfqZjXOUMmbnZWiT0L1BfV2SlvJWmQ5_R3aa1nM7nX2Uma X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: ymail-5 Message-ID: <495E6315.4040204@netconfcentral.com> Date: Fri, 02 Jan 2009 10:55:17 -0800 From: Andy Bierman User-Agent: Thunderbird 2.0.0.19 (Windows/20081209) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: David Harrington References: <4951803E.8030009@netconfcentral.com> <20081229.095715.28694997.mbj@tail-f.com><1230898091.6354.10.camel@missotis> <495E47B3.2050807@netconfcentral.com> <001101c96cff$8216c380$6905a8c0@china.huawei.com> In-Reply-To: <001101c96cff$8216c380$6905a8c0@china.huawei.com> Cc: netmod@ietf.org Subject: Re: [netmod] container netconf X-BeenThere: netmod@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.9 Precedence: list List-Id: NETMOD WG list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-2"; Format="flowed" Sender: netmod-bounces@ietf.org Errors-To: netmod-bounces@ietf.org David Harrington wrote: > Hi, > = > Some comments from SNMP-land: > = > We tried separating SNMP into a separate subtree, paralel to mib-2, > and did not find it that useful. Subsequently, we recommned keeping > everything under mib-2, whether it is SNMP-protocol-specific or not. I > am not sure having a separate XML subtree for netconf-protocol config > will be found to be useful. > = > For a purely technical backwards-compatibility reason, mib modules are > now recommended to use a subtree for notifications, another for > objects, and a third for conformance, under the mib module > registration. It might be good to standardize something similar for > netconf. It might have been useful to separate config info from state > info in mib modules, but we never found it justified, given that we > only had read-only vs read-write to distinguish the two. Since netconf > does a better job of separation, this might be useful in nnetconf > models. = > = > Of course, netconf could create a netconf/notifications/subtree and a > netcoinf/config subtree and a netconf/state subtree and then require > modules to register as a notification model, a config model, or a > state model. > = This is sort of Apples and Oranges. Either that, or "We're not in Kansas anymore" :-) RPCs and notifications do not show up in the conceptual NETMOD data tree. They only show up in PDUs in the module's XML namespace. The contents of a standard NETCONF database would benefit from an organizational structure other than "ad-hoc". An operator who knows even a little XPath could easily remember '/netconf' or '/system' or /interfaces' or even "/interfaces/interface[name=3D'eth1']". However, if data is not maintained in an organized manner, then an operator has no hope of remembering all the 'places' where interesting data 'lives' in NETCONF. IMO, the ease-of-use to operators of the long term is easily neglected by the WG, yet it should be the #1 priority. > dbh Andy > = >> -----Original Message----- >> From: netmod-bounces@ietf.org = >> [mailto:netmod-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of Andy Bierman >> Sent: Friday, January 02, 2009 11:58 AM >> To: Ladislav Lhotka >> Cc: netmod@ietf.org >> Subject: Re: [netmod] container netconf >> >> Ladislav Lhotka wrote: >>> Martin Bjorklund p=ED=B9e v Po 29. 12. 2008 v 09:57 +0100: >>>>> Every NETCONF model (rooted under /netconf) is going >>>>> to have to augment the notifications data model. >>>>> That doesn't seem very clean, but multiple /netconf containers >>>>> in different XML namespaces is even worse. >>>>> >>>>> Suggestions to clean this mess up before it starts? >>>> That would be nice, and I believe that Sharon's intention = >> has always >>>> been to have a single 'netconf' container. >>>> >> >> This is where the difference between good intentions >> and good experience starts to show up, and why we >> need to get started with NETMOD, on the right track. >> >> Q wrap-up: >> >> 1) Is the netconf root a presence container or an NP container? >> Since we defined no meaning for the root, it must be NP. >> >> 2) Can the errata process be used to adjust the XSD as >> Martin suggests? (adding a 'netconf-component' substitution >> group that other XSDs can use, to match the YANG augment). >> >> 3) Should there be separate roots, one for monitoring >> (the existing one) and another one for configuring the >> NETCONF protocol? (if and when that is needed) >> >> 4) What is the right way to organize the NETCONF MIB tree? >> IMO, separating non-config is really going against the grain > wrt/ >> aggressively hierarchical nature of XML. I prefer >> one subtree for the 'foo service' containing everything >> there is to know about that service. OID values in SMIv2 >> are totally random and have no semantics. I still cannot >> remember any of them by heart after 20 years. >> But "/interfaces/interface/ifMtu" could not be more clear. >> Scattering data randomly (over time) will ruin this important >> feature of XML. >> >> >> Andy >> >> >>>> However, we're sort of stuck with the limitations of XSD. YANG > is >>>> designed to handle this situation, but the YANG models are >>>> non-normative. >>> On the other hand, this is a typical application for NVDL, see for >>> example this paper: >>> http://2007.xtech.org/public/schedule/detail/48 >>> >>> Lada >>> >>>> Assuming we cannot change the structure of the data model in the >>>> notification RFC, and that we want one single 'netconf' = >> container, it >>>> would have to be called: >>>> >>>> {urn:ietf:params:xml:ns:netmod:notification}netconf >>>> >>>> which is not optimal... >>>> >>>> Anyway, here are a few alternatives: >>>> >>>> 1) Add a substitionGroup to the 'netconf' element, as = >> an errata to >>>> rfc 5277. The monitoring schema would then use this >>>> substitionGroup. >>>> >>>> 2) As an errata to 5277, add text that explains that the XSD > is >>>> supposed to be completely open ( in XSD = >> 1.1) The >>>> monitoring schema would then have text that explains that > the >>>> contents would go under the >>>> {urn:ietf:params:xml:ns:netmod:notification}netconf > element. >>>> 3) Live with it, and do better next time. Maybe as = >> soon as in the >>>> monitoring spec - it could define a simple schema / = >> YANG module >>>> with a single 'netconf' container in a generic namespace, > and >>>> then augment this container with the monitoring = >> stuff. When we >>>> do the third data model for netconf, we will then have this >>>> 'netconf' container element in place. >>>> >>>> >>>> But there are still a couple of unanswered questions - = >> should we have >>>> one 'netconf' container for config and one for operational = >> data? If >>>> we have one single container for both kinds, should we have two >>>> distinct subtrees underneath that one? >>>> >>>> >>>> /martin >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> netmod mailing list >>>> netmod@ietf.org >>>> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/netmod >> >> _______________________________________________ >> netmod mailing list >> netmod@ietf.org >> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/netmod >> > = > = > = > = _______________________________________________ netmod mailing list netmod@ietf.org https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/netmod From netmod-bounces@ietf.org Fri Jan 2 10:56:40 2009 Return-Path: X-Original-To: netmod-archive@ietf.org Delivered-To: ietfarch-netmod-archive@core3.amsl.com Received: from [127.0.0.1] (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 954543A66B4; Fri, 2 Jan 2009 10:56:40 -0800 (PST) X-Original-To: netmod@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: netmod@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id E70903A68D0 for ; Fri, 2 Jan 2009 10:56:38 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.821 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.821 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=-0.172, BAYES_00=-2.599, HELO_EQ_DE=0.35, J_CHICKENPOX_74=0.6] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id bwUjGxLA7A+a for ; Fri, 2 Jan 2009 10:56:37 -0800 (PST) Received: from hermes.jacobs-university.de (hermes.jacobs-university.de [212.201.44.23]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id A9B283A66B4 for ; Fri, 2 Jan 2009 10:56:37 -0800 (PST) Received: from localhost (demetrius2.jacobs-university.de [212.201.44.47]) by hermes.jacobs-university.de (Postfix) with ESMTP id 49B3CC003F; Fri, 2 Jan 2009 19:56:25 +0100 (CET) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at jacobs-university.de Received: from hermes.jacobs-university.de ([212.201.44.23]) by localhost (demetrius2.jacobs-university.de [212.201.44.32]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id vgPTl7mUf6P3; Fri, 2 Jan 2009 19:56:19 +0100 (CET) Received: from elstar.local (elstar.iuhb02.iu-bremen.de [10.50.231.133]) by hermes.jacobs-university.de (Postfix) with ESMTP id 79861C003E; Fri, 2 Jan 2009 19:56:19 +0100 (CET) Received: by elstar.local (Postfix, from userid 501) id 599BA8D44C9; Fri, 2 Jan 2009 19:56:19 +0100 (CET) Date: Fri, 2 Jan 2009 19:56:19 +0100 From: Juergen Schoenwaelder To: Andy Bierman Message-ID: <20090102185619.GA7845@elstar.local> Mail-Followup-To: Andy Bierman , NETMOD Working Group References: <4951803E.8030009@netconfcentral.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <4951803E.8030009@netconfcentral.com> User-Agent: Mutt/1.5.18 (2008-05-17) Cc: NETMOD Working Group Subject: Re: [netmod] container netconf X-BeenThere: netmod@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.9 Precedence: list Reply-To: j.schoenwaelder@jacobs-university.de List-Id: NETMOD WG list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: netmod-bounces@ietf.org Errors-To: netmod-bounces@ietf.org On Tue, Dec 23, 2008 at 04:20:14PM -0800, Andy Bierman wrote: > I was just looking at netconf-state.yang > and then I looked at notifications.yang. Which ones? I must admit I am not sure. > They both define a top-level container. > One of them defines it 'config true' and the other one > defines it 'config false'. > > I know it is early for real data models and all, > but notifications is a standards track RFC, > so it must be right ;-) > > Every NETCONF model (rooted under /netconf) is going > to have to augment the notifications data model. > That doesn't seem very clean, but multiple /netconf containers > in different XML namespaces is even worse. You seem to suggest that netconf-state.yang and notifications.yang become YANG submodules included by a netconf.yang module since otherwise the definitions will be in different namespaces and hence there is no common root anyway. For the SNMP VACM module (see the testing report), I have done exactly that. /js -- Juergen Schoenwaelder Jacobs University Bremen gGmbH Phone: +49 421 200 3587 Campus Ring 1, 28759 Bremen, Germany Fax: +49 421 200 3103 _______________________________________________ netmod mailing list netmod@ietf.org https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/netmod From netmod-bounces@ietf.org Fri Jan 2 12:31:41 2009 Return-Path: X-Original-To: netmod-archive@ietf.org Delivered-To: ietfarch-netmod-archive@core3.amsl.com Received: from [127.0.0.1] (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 760843A6857; Fri, 2 Jan 2009 12:31:41 -0800 (PST) X-Original-To: netmod@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: netmod@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 66D173A6876 for ; Fri, 2 Jan 2009 12:31:40 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.882 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.882 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=-0.217, BAYES_00=-2.599, IP_NOT_FRIENDLY=0.334, J_CHICKENPOX_74=0.6] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 9AY-cYl2Ae1w for ; Fri, 2 Jan 2009 12:31:39 -0800 (PST) Received: from smtp119.sbc.mail.sp1.yahoo.com (smtp119.sbc.mail.sp1.yahoo.com [69.147.64.92]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with SMTP id 786523A6857 for ; Fri, 2 Jan 2009 12:31:38 -0800 (PST) Received: (qmail 1308 invoked from network); 2 Jan 2009 20:31:26 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO ?127.0.0.1?) (andy@68.120.68.180 with plain) by smtp119.sbc.mail.sp1.yahoo.com with SMTP; 2 Jan 2009 20:31:24 -0000 X-YMail-OSG: eCWyaY0VM1kxrJNe1gZ9o2q0Ui4fwEOvzvLDJV5NnK1T_lZZFoZwSCrybIxQKBjTbo2PdApaKCc62Wnz15GgnJxTqzwk5MHEkA3AcP0P7epJm0eZncBYZPaPksqJo1_V46Cox9f2GrNaOz9cRQ94qDz9 X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: ymail-3 Message-ID: <495E799B.3020805@netconfcentral.com> Date: Fri, 02 Jan 2009 12:31:23 -0800 From: Andy Bierman User-Agent: Thunderbird 2.0.0.19 (Windows/20081209) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Andy Bierman , NETMOD Working Group References: <4951803E.8030009@netconfcentral.com> <20090102185619.GA7845@elstar.local> In-Reply-To: <20090102185619.GA7845@elstar.local> Subject: Re: [netmod] container netconf X-BeenThere: netmod@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.9 Precedence: list List-Id: NETMOD WG list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; Format="flowed" Sender: netmod-bounces@ietf.org Errors-To: netmod-bounces@ietf.org Juergen Schoenwaelder wrote: > On Tue, Dec 23, 2008 at 04:20:14PM -0800, Andy Bierman wrote: > >> I was just looking at netconf-state.yang >> and then I looked at notifications.yang. > > Which ones? I must admit I am not sure. > >> They both define a top-level container. >> One of them defines it 'config true' and the other one >> defines it 'config false'. >> >> I know it is early for real data models and all, >> but notifications is a standards track RFC, >> so it must be right ;-) >> >> Every NETCONF model (rooted under /netconf) is going >> to have to augment the notifications data model. >> That doesn't seem very clean, but multiple /netconf containers >> in different XML namespaces is even worse. > > You seem to suggest that netconf-state.yang and notifications.yang > become YANG submodules included by a netconf.yang module since > otherwise the definitions will be in different namespaces and hence > there is no common root anyway. I am not suggesting that, but it is an issue. That would be the only way to keep 'netconf stuff' in 1 XML namespace. I don't think that is very important in XPath. It's an issue in subtree filtering though. The is already in a different namespace than the rest of NETCONF. Augments using different namespaces to avoid coordination of the naming. Putting 'everything' in one namespace would impact augment. You seem to be suggesting, that if we wanted to consider an organizational algorithm other than "ad-hoc", one of them would be: 1 main module per 'category': netconf.yang: (just a bunch of includes) include netconf-root.yang include notifications.yang include nc-notifications.yang include netconf-state.yang include partial-lock.yang This would only really work if the main netconf.yang was kept online on IANA. Republishing that as an RFC every time a new module came out seems cumbersome. I prefer N namespaces, but starting out with an augment-able container that gets designated for the category. All standard extensions (and vendor if they want) would be required to use the most appropriate existing container. The YANG MIB Doctors should have to approve new standard containers, as part of their review process. module netconf-root { // no objects except this empty NP container container netconf; } module partial-lock { import netconf-root { prefix root; } augment "/root:netconf" { // all the partial-lock objects in this namespace } rpc partial-lock { ... } rpc partial-unlock { ... } } This requires no IANA support, and separate RFCs for each data model in the category do not impact each other (especially with import-by-revision added to the mix). > > For the SNMP VACM module (see the testing report), I have done exactly > that. > I noticed. > /js > Andy _______________________________________________ netmod mailing list netmod@ietf.org https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/netmod From netmod-bounces@ietf.org Sat Jan 3 10:45:26 2009 Return-Path: X-Original-To: netmod-archive@ietf.org Delivered-To: ietfarch-netmod-archive@core3.amsl.com Received: from [127.0.0.1] (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id E848E3A6938; Sat, 3 Jan 2009 10:45:26 -0800 (PST) X-Original-To: netmod@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: netmod@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id ABDB83A6939 for ; Sat, 3 Jan 2009 10:45:25 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.179 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.179 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=0.086, BAYES_00=-2.599, IP_NOT_FRIENDLY=0.334] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id A7JEVoGMdfzH for ; Sat, 3 Jan 2009 10:45:25 -0800 (PST) Received: from smtp115.sbc.mail.sp1.yahoo.com (smtp115.sbc.mail.sp1.yahoo.com [69.147.64.88]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with SMTP id 017723A6938 for ; Sat, 3 Jan 2009 10:45:24 -0800 (PST) Received: (qmail 21012 invoked from network); 3 Jan 2009 18:45:12 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO ?127.0.0.1?) (andy@68.120.68.180 with plain) by smtp115.sbc.mail.sp1.yahoo.com with SMTP; 3 Jan 2009 18:45:11 -0000 X-YMail-OSG: FlzSb6cVM1kwnzbwiwBci6GppBWH11xPYmJmQdGo4HwstfgFtb8LqN4Yc2CudIftzqJjsmvIBaEC6HeL_dMcyetzkN1I4SKC0zQq_cXIGxAlJIugho3hjrg1_aPqxB4aNp_OAKc1Azu5MPdkPzrrqzr4 X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: ymail-3 Message-ID: <495FB235.5080303@netconfcentral.com> Date: Sat, 03 Jan 2009 10:45:09 -0800 From: Andy Bierman User-Agent: Thunderbird 2.0.0.19 (Windows/20081209) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: NETMOD Working Group Subject: [netmod] canonical order X-BeenThere: netmod@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.9 Precedence: list List-Id: NETMOD WG list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; Format="flowed" Sender: netmod-bounces@ietf.org Errors-To: netmod-bounces@ietf.org Hi, When implementing XPath for YANG, the relative order of nodes within the 'current document' is significant. For the object tree (during YANG file validation), the 'following' and 'preceding' axis are determined by the document order of the YANG definitions. For the value tree, these axis, plus 'following-sibling' and 'preceding-sibling', will be determined by the actual database tree instance order. No problems, so far, except for key leafs. The document order for list contents does not have to match the PDU order, which MUST have the key leafs first (only because of the CLR in YANG that says so). But that CLR only applies to PDU order, not NETCONF database order. There is no defined order for that, for sibling objects or sibling instances of an object. In order for must-stmt, when-stmt, XPath and subtree filtering to work the same way on different agents (the point of a standard, I am told), then the canonical order of a NETMOD database needs to be defined in the draft. Andy _______________________________________________ netmod mailing list netmod@ietf.org https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/netmod From netmod-bounces@ietf.org Sun Jan 4 03:13:20 2009 Return-Path: X-Original-To: netmod-archive@ietf.org Delivered-To: ietfarch-netmod-archive@core3.amsl.com Received: from [127.0.0.1] (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id E62A23A68C6; Sun, 4 Jan 2009 03:13:20 -0800 (PST) X-Original-To: netmod@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: netmod@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 120683A6A58 for ; Sun, 4 Jan 2009 03:13:19 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.722 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.722 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=-0.276, BAYES_00=-2.599, HELO_MISMATCH_COM=0.553, J_CHICKENPOX_74=0.6] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id jWLSMCjB6AqX for ; Sun, 4 Jan 2009 03:13:18 -0800 (PST) Received: from mail.tail-f.com (de-0316.d.ipeer.se [213.180.79.212]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3DB143A68FF for ; Sun, 4 Jan 2009 03:13:18 -0800 (PST) Received: from localhost (c213-100-167-236.swipnet.se [213.100.167.236]) by mail.tail-f.com (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 03DB476C389; Sun, 4 Jan 2009 12:13:04 +0100 (CET) Date: Sun, 04 Jan 2009 12:13:03 +0100 (CET) Message-Id: <20090104.121303.234096676.mbj@tail-f.com> To: andy@netconfcentral.com From: Martin Bjorklund In-Reply-To: <495E799B.3020805@netconfcentral.com> References: <4951803E.8030009@netconfcentral.com> <20090102185619.GA7845@elstar.local> <495E799B.3020805@netconfcentral.com> X-Mailer: Mew version 6.0.51 on Emacs 22.2 / Mule 5.0 (SAKAKI) Mime-Version: 1.0 Cc: netmod@ietf.org Subject: Re: [netmod] container netconf X-BeenThere: netmod@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.9 Precedence: list List-Id: NETMOD WG list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: netmod-bounces@ietf.org Errors-To: netmod-bounces@ietf.org Andy Bierman wrote: > Juergen Schoenwaelder wrote: > > You seem to suggest that netconf-state.yang and notifications.yang > > become YANG submodules included by a netconf.yang module since > > otherwise the definitions will be in different namespaces and hence > > there is no common root anyway. > > I am not suggesting that, but it is an issue. > That would be the only way to keep 'netconf stuff' in > 1 XML namespace. I don't think that is very important > in XPath. It's an issue in subtree filtering though. Do you mean because of this sentence from 6.2.1 of rfc4741: If namespaces are used, then the filter output will only include elements from the specified namespace. This is another area in need of clarification. What is the intention of this feature? What exactly does "if namespaces are used" mean? Putting pieces of information together, I *think* the intention is that this expression: would suppress any augementing data models under the 'netconf' root, but that this expression: would return all augmenting data models. (and also return other data models with a top element 'netconf'). /martin _______________________________________________ netmod mailing list netmod@ietf.org https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/netmod From netmod-bounces@ietf.org Sun Jan 4 03:27:22 2009 Return-Path: X-Original-To: netmod-archive@ietf.org Delivered-To: ietfarch-netmod-archive@core3.amsl.com Received: from [127.0.0.1] (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2CC303A6822; Sun, 4 Jan 2009 03:27:22 -0800 (PST) X-Original-To: netmod@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: netmod@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6DCCC3A6843 for ; Sun, 4 Jan 2009 03:27:21 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.016 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.016 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=0.030, BAYES_00=-2.599, HELO_MISMATCH_COM=0.553] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id b8qtfDQfQeaF for ; Sun, 4 Jan 2009 03:27:20 -0800 (PST) Received: from mail.tail-f.com (de-0316.d.ipeer.se [213.180.79.212]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 980BE3A6822 for ; Sun, 4 Jan 2009 03:27:20 -0800 (PST) Received: from localhost (c213-100-167-236.swipnet.se [213.100.167.236]) by mail.tail-f.com (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id F037B76C389; Sun, 4 Jan 2009 12:27:07 +0100 (CET) Date: Sun, 04 Jan 2009 12:27:04 +0100 (CET) Message-Id: <20090104.122704.197678479.mbj@tail-f.com> To: andy@andybierman.com From: Martin Bjorklund In-Reply-To: <495AB65D.5030808@andybierman.com> References: <495AB65D.5030808@andybierman.com> X-Mailer: Mew version 6.0.51 on Emacs 22.2 / Mule 5.0 (SAKAKI) Mime-Version: 1.0 Cc: netmod@ietf.org Subject: Re: [netmod] yang-02, 7.5.2 X-BeenThere: netmod@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.9 Precedence: list List-Id: NETMOD WG list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: netmod-bounces@ietf.org Errors-To: netmod-bounces@ietf.org Andy Bierman wrote: > Hi, > > Are all these discussions about must-stmt inside rpc or > notification academic? > > From 7.5.2, para 4: > > The "must" statement is ignored if the data does not represent > configuration. > > Para 7: > > If the node with the must statement represents configuration data, > any node referenced in the XPath expression MUST also represent > configuration. > > These statements seem to conflict. I have removed para 4 in -03. > It's fine with me if we leave must-stmt processing out > of RPC and notification completely. It will make the > document easier to read and write (and get done). The current consensus (see http://trac.tools.ietf.org/wg/netmod/trac/wiki/Issues_yang#issue-00172) is to allow this. > BTW, para 7 is not quite complete -- 'any node referenced' > could be via 1 of the wildcard mechanisms, and not just > an explicit path statement like the examples we often use. > Each path statement result is a node-set, not just 1 node. > Ditto for each path step. > > So we need a sentence that says that non-config nodes > matched by [fill in the wildcard mechanisms], instead > of by direct reference, are ignored during must-stmt > validation and evaluation. > > Or are wildcard matches considered an error also? Actually, I think this should be reworded. Referencing a non-config node from a config node should be treated in the same way as referencing a non-existing node. And treating a non-existing node is not an error, but that expression will return an empty node set. It's probably a good idea if YANG tools produces warnings in these cases though, but that's an implementation issue. /martin _______________________________________________ netmod mailing list netmod@ietf.org https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/netmod From netmod-bounces@ietf.org Sun Jan 4 06:58:34 2009 Return-Path: X-Original-To: netmod-archive@ietf.org Delivered-To: ietfarch-netmod-archive@core3.amsl.com Received: from [127.0.0.1] (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id A3DF33A6452; Sun, 4 Jan 2009 06:58:34 -0800 (PST) X-Original-To: netmod@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: netmod@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 585533A6843 for ; Sun, 4 Jan 2009 06:58:33 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.017 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.017 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=0.029, BAYES_00=-2.599, HELO_MISMATCH_COM=0.553] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id h2q0plv3sIPd for ; Sun, 4 Jan 2009 06:58:32 -0800 (PST) Received: from mail.tail-f.com (de-0316.d.ipeer.se [213.180.79.212]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 70E673A6452 for ; Sun, 4 Jan 2009 06:58:32 -0800 (PST) Received: from localhost (c213-100-167-236.swipnet.se [213.100.167.236]) by mail.tail-f.com (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 1797176C389; Sun, 4 Jan 2009 15:58:18 +0100 (CET) Date: Sun, 04 Jan 2009 15:58:17 +0100 (CET) Message-Id: <20090104.155817.225579432.mbj@tail-f.com> To: lhotka@cesnet.cz From: Martin Bjorklund In-Reply-To: <1230898091.6354.10.camel@missotis> References: <4951803E.8030009@netconfcentral.com> <20081229.095715.28694997.mbj@tail-f.com> <1230898091.6354.10.camel@missotis> X-Mailer: Mew version 6.0.51 on Emacs 22.2 / Mule 5.0 (SAKAKI) Mime-Version: 1.0 Cc: netmod@ietf.org Subject: Re: [netmod] container netconf X-BeenThere: netmod@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.9 Precedence: list List-Id: NETMOD WG list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: netmod-bounces@ietf.org Errors-To: netmod-bounces@ietf.org Ladislav Lhotka wrote: > On the other hand, this is a typical application for NVDL, see for > example this paper: > http://2007.xtech.org/public/schedule/detail/48 NVDL is part of DSDL, so I guess it would be ok to use it in our DSDL mapping. Could NVDL be used to solve our "super-model" issue? The idea would be to generate one RelaxNG schema per YANG module, with no additional genererated top-level elements. Then a device can make a susper-schema in NVDL that describes how the individual data models are combined. This super-schema could even be advertised in the schema discovery list so clients can learn it from the device. /martin _______________________________________________ netmod mailing list netmod@ietf.org https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/netmod From netmod-bounces@ietf.org Sun Jan 4 07:55:52 2009 Return-Path: X-Original-To: netmod-archive@ietf.org Delivered-To: ietfarch-netmod-archive@core3.amsl.com Received: from [127.0.0.1] (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 124F23A67ED; Sun, 4 Jan 2009 07:55:52 -0800 (PST) X-Original-To: netmod@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: netmod@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 18DFC3A6A7E for ; Sun, 4 Jan 2009 07:55:51 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.88 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.88 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=-0.215, BAYES_00=-2.599, IP_NOT_FRIENDLY=0.334, J_CHICKENPOX_13=0.6] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id MsQbIigVs8ba for ; Sun, 4 Jan 2009 07:55:49 -0800 (PST) Received: from smtp115.sbc.mail.sp1.yahoo.com (smtp115.sbc.mail.sp1.yahoo.com [69.147.64.88]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with SMTP id C5E5E3A6A76 for ; Sun, 4 Jan 2009 07:55:49 -0800 (PST) Received: (qmail 7289 invoked from network); 4 Jan 2009 15:55:37 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO ?127.0.0.1?) (andy@68.120.68.180 with plain) by smtp115.sbc.mail.sp1.yahoo.com with SMTP; 4 Jan 2009 15:55:36 -0000 X-YMail-OSG: 7ClrsQsVM1k9ILxorM0nnZ8dsnwuziEQ9EHpd5nkqlLAVJ1CMvDUm33Ok5BSzPO7IGACL_5Yn9tHFjmjko53.4u3McGJx4W_a35vP1Cw3sVX6pUnYQ1AzWyV6J5EGZOQSh_ZCNqwFIXVYWN9PbaDTxc6KwfBSJ0bPd2AI3LRRezIgGrpNM8QAeFj X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: ymail-3 Message-ID: <4960DBF5.8040306@netconfcentral.com> Date: Sun, 04 Jan 2009 07:55:33 -0800 From: Andy Bierman User-Agent: Thunderbird 2.0.0.19 (Windows/20081209) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Martin Bjorklund References: <495AB65D.5030808@andybierman.com> <20090104.122704.197678479.mbj@tail-f.com> In-Reply-To: <20090104.122704.197678479.mbj@tail-f.com> Cc: netmod@ietf.org, andy@andybierman.com Subject: Re: [netmod] yang-02, 7.5.2 X-BeenThere: netmod@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.9 Precedence: list List-Id: NETMOD WG list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; Format="flowed" Sender: netmod-bounces@ietf.org Errors-To: netmod-bounces@ietf.org Martin Bjorklund wrote: > Andy Bierman wrote: >> Hi, >> >> Are all these discussions about must-stmt inside rpc or >> notification academic? >> >> From 7.5.2, para 4: >> >> The "must" statement is ignored if the data does not represent >> configuration. >> >> Para 7: >> >> If the node with the must statement represents configuration data, >> any node referenced in the XPath expression MUST also represent >> configuration. >> >> These statements seem to conflict. > > I have removed para 4 in -03. > >> It's fine with me if we leave must-stmt processing out >> of RPC and notification completely. It will make the >> document easier to read and write (and get done). > > The current consensus (see > http://trac.tools.ietf.org/wg/netmod/trac/wiki/Issues_yang#issue-00172) > is to allow this. > >> BTW, para 7 is not quite complete -- 'any node referenced' >> could be via 1 of the wildcard mechanisms, and not just >> an explicit path statement like the examples we often use. >> Each path statement result is a node-set, not just 1 node. >> Ditto for each path step. >> >> So we need a sentence that says that non-config nodes >> matched by [fill in the wildcard mechanisms], instead >> of by direct reference, are ignored during must-stmt >> validation and evaluation. >> >> Or are wildcard matches considered an error also? > > Actually, I think this should be reworded. Referencing a non-config > node from a config node should be treated in the same way as > referencing a non-existing node. And treating a non-existing node is > not an error, but that expression will return an empty node set. > There is a difference between these conditions. If the user says "must '/x:foo';", and there is no x:foo node, then the result will always be empty. Some expressions like "/.." are invalid. We don't have any use cases for must/when statements that include a constant expression that equals the empty set. It is not always easy to tell (//../*/../foo), but if the compiler can flag a non-existent prefix or node, then that is a fatal error, because the XPath expression will always be false. In my implementation, I am silently skipping non-config nodes that match via wildcard (if the context node is config) and only generating an error if I can tell it was explicitly selected. > It's probably a good idea if YANG tools produces warnings in these > cases though, but that's an implementation issue. > > > /martin Andy _______________________________________________ netmod mailing list netmod@ietf.org https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/netmod From netmod-bounces@ietf.org Sun Jan 4 08:48:28 2009 Return-Path: X-Original-To: netmod-archive@ietf.org Delivered-To: ietfarch-netmod-archive@core3.amsl.com Received: from [127.0.0.1] (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 29E4E3A682B; Sun, 4 Jan 2009 08:48:28 -0800 (PST) X-Original-To: netmod@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: netmod@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0359C3A691D for ; Sun, 4 Jan 2009 08:48:27 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.176 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.176 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=0.089, BAYES_00=-2.599, IP_NOT_FRIENDLY=0.334] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id eAUgPWGVDsM0 for ; Sun, 4 Jan 2009 08:48:26 -0800 (PST) Received: from smtp124.sbc.mail.sp1.yahoo.com (smtp124.sbc.mail.sp1.yahoo.com [69.147.64.97]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with SMTP id 503FE3A682B for ; Sun, 4 Jan 2009 08:48:26 -0800 (PST) Received: (qmail 75260 invoked from network); 4 Jan 2009 16:48:13 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO ?127.0.0.1?) (andy@68.120.68.180 with plain) by smtp124.sbc.mail.sp1.yahoo.com with SMTP; 4 Jan 2009 16:48:11 -0000 X-YMail-OSG: xOkj2F8VM1mT.4gPGWYhC3tKkAvD.S2dC5dsptAC9LRbvG_TDDiUzoIQOm4Sow_FBW6akxG1wqCRU89Dg3quqLxYXw0ajKwQCATJPL9k4M.B9o1ZjEMS0ejWtD48nygIQ_mc36JyoY0LQYwH396VtfVS6Vj0Tcs.DvSeTq3gnvXC.vn_wTDLwEY2X6GYQNgJaAFg0Ydk_kA_aqp81Q-- X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: ymail-3 Message-ID: <4960E849.3070601@netconfcentral.com> Date: Sun, 04 Jan 2009 08:48:09 -0800 From: Andy Bierman User-Agent: Thunderbird 2.0.0.19 (Windows/20081209) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Martin Bjorklund References: <495AB65D.5030808@andybierman.com> <20090104.122704.197678479.mbj@tail-f.com> In-Reply-To: <20090104.122704.197678479.mbj@tail-f.com> Cc: netmod@ietf.org Subject: Re: [netmod] yang-02, 7.5.2 X-BeenThere: netmod@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.9 Precedence: list List-Id: NETMOD WG list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; Format="flowed" Sender: netmod-bounces@ietf.org Errors-To: netmod-bounces@ietf.org Martin Bjorklund wrote: > Andy Bierman wrote: ... >> Or are wildcard matches considered an error also? > > Actually, I think this should be reworded. Referencing a non-config > node from a config node should be treated in the same way as > referencing a non-existing node. And treating a non-existing node is > not an error, but that expression will return an empty node set. > > It's probably a good idea if YANG tools produces warnings in these > cases though, but that's an implementation issue. > > After some more thought -- this will be fine. It can be too difficult to know the intent of the DM designer when encountering an unknown node in a sub-expression. must "/x:new-goo-feature or /y:old-foo-feature"; What about if the entire expression always evaluates to false? Also a warning I guess. Even must-stmt? An empty nodeset is just one way to reach this result. Phil says nobody pays attention to warnings, but this is the " operation will always fail" warning, so you can ignore it, but it won't ignore you ;-) > /martin Andy _______________________________________________ netmod mailing list netmod@ietf.org https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/netmod From netmod-bounces@ietf.org Mon Jan 5 00:40:24 2009 Return-Path: X-Original-To: netmod-archive@ietf.org Delivered-To: ietfarch-netmod-archive@core3.amsl.com Received: from [127.0.0.1] (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id D55AF3A67A4; Mon, 5 Jan 2009 00:40:24 -0800 (PST) X-Original-To: netmod@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: netmod@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 588A93A6920 for ; Mon, 5 Jan 2009 00:40:22 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.045 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.045 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=0.205, BAYES_00=-2.599, HELO_EQ_CZ=0.445, HOST_EQ_CZ=0.904] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id GMMTIe5NF0Av for ; Mon, 5 Jan 2009 00:40:21 -0800 (PST) Received: from office2.cesnet.cz (office2.cesnet.cz [195.113.144.244]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3804F3A67A4 for ; Mon, 5 Jan 2009 00:40:20 -0800 (PST) Received: from [172.29.2.201] (asus-gx.lhotka.cesnet.cz [195.113.161.161]) by office2.cesnet.cz (Postfix) with ESMTP id 87D4AD800C5; Mon, 5 Jan 2009 09:40:05 +0100 (CET) From: Ladislav Lhotka To: Martin Bjorklund In-Reply-To: <20090104.155817.225579432.mbj@tail-f.com> References: <4951803E.8030009@netconfcentral.com> <20081229.095715.28694997.mbj@tail-f.com> <1230898091.6354.10.camel@missotis> <20090104.155817.225579432.mbj@tail-f.com> Organization: CESNET Date: Mon, 05 Jan 2009 09:40:05 +0100 Message-Id: <1231144805.31844.15.camel@missotis> Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Evolution 2.22.3.1 Cc: netmod@ietf.org Subject: Re: [netmod] container netconf X-BeenThere: netmod@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.9 Precedence: list List-Id: NETMOD WG list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 Sender: netmod-bounces@ietf.org Errors-To: netmod-bounces@ietf.org TWFydGluIEJqb3JrbHVuZCBww63FoWUgdiBOZSAwNC4gMDEuIDIwMDkgdiAxNTo1OCArMDEwMDoK PiBMYWRpc2xhdiBMaG90a2EgPGxob3RrYUBjZXNuZXQuY3o+IHdyb3RlOgo+ID4gT24gdGhlIG90 aGVyIGhhbmQsIHRoaXMgaXMgYSB0eXBpY2FsIGFwcGxpY2F0aW9uIGZvciBOVkRMLCBzZWUgZm9y Cj4gPiBleGFtcGxlIHRoaXMgcGFwZXI6Cj4gPiBodHRwOi8vMjAwNy54dGVjaC5vcmcvcHVibGlj L3NjaGVkdWxlL2RldGFpbC80OAo+IAo+IE5WREwgaXMgcGFydCBvZiBEU0RMLCBzbyBJIGd1ZXNz IGl0IHdvdWxkIGJlIG9rIHRvIHVzZSBpdCBpbiBvdXIgRFNETAo+IG1hcHBpbmcuICBDb3VsZCBO VkRMIGJlIHVzZWQgdG8gc29sdmUgb3VyICJzdXBlci1tb2RlbCIgaXNzdWU/ICBUaGUKPiBpZGVh IHdvdWxkIGJlIHRvIGdlbmVyYXRlIG9uZSBSZWxheE5HIHNjaGVtYSBwZXIgWUFORyBtb2R1bGUs IHdpdGggbm8KPiBhZGRpdGlvbmFsIGdlbmVyZXJhdGVkIHRvcC1sZXZlbCBlbGVtZW50cy4gIFRo ZW4gYSBkZXZpY2UgY2FuIG1ha2UgYQo+IHN1c3Blci1zY2hlbWEgaW4gTlZETCB0aGF0IGRlc2Ny aWJlcyBob3cgdGhlIGluZGl2aWR1YWwgZGF0YSBtb2RlbHMKPiBhcmUgY29tYmluZWQuICBUaGlz IHN1cGVyLXNjaGVtYSBjb3VsZCBldmVuIGJlIGFkdmVydGlzZWQgaW4gdGhlCj4gc2NoZW1hIGRp c2NvdmVyeSBsaXN0IHNvIGNsaWVudHMgY2FuIGxlYXJuIGl0IGZyb20gdGhlIGRldmljZS4KClll cywgSSB0aGluayB0aGlzIGNvdWxkIGJlIGRvbmUsIGJ1dCBOVkRMIGNhbiBhbHNvIHNlcnZlIGFz IGEgZm9ybWFsCmdsdWUgYmV0d2VlbiBORVRDT05GIGFuZCBkYXRhIG1vZGVsIHNjaGVtYXMuIE5v dGUgdGhhdCBOVkRMIGNhbiBhbHNvIHVzZQpYU0QgYXMgdGhlIHNjaGVtYSBsYW5ndWFnZSBmb3Ig c29tZSBzZWN0aW9ucyBvZiB0aGUgY29tcG9zaXRlIHNjaGVtYS4KCkxhZGEKCj4gCj4gCj4gL21h cnRpbgotLSAKTGFkaXNsYXYgTGhvdGthLCBDRVNORVQKUEdQIEtleSBJRDogRTc0RThDMEMKCl9f X19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fCm5ldG1vZCBtYWls aW5nIGxpc3QKbmV0bW9kQGlldGYub3JnCmh0dHBzOi8vd3d3LmlldGYub3JnL21haWxtYW4vbGlz dGluZm8vbmV0bW9kCg== From netmod-bounces@ietf.org Mon Jan 5 01:12:29 2009 Return-Path: X-Original-To: netmod-archive@ietf.org Delivered-To: ietfarch-netmod-archive@core3.amsl.com Received: from [127.0.0.1] (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0B8183A63D3; Mon, 5 Jan 2009 01:12:29 -0800 (PST) X-Original-To: netmod@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: netmod@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9A54E3A6936 for ; Mon, 5 Jan 2009 01:12:27 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.017 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.017 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=0.029, BAYES_00=-2.599, HELO_MISMATCH_COM=0.553] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id hi4BhAkl+q0P for ; Mon, 5 Jan 2009 01:12:27 -0800 (PST) Received: from mail.tail-f.com (de-0316.d.ipeer.se [213.180.79.212]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id D3A943A63D3 for ; Mon, 5 Jan 2009 01:12:26 -0800 (PST) Received: from localhost (c213-100-167-236.swipnet.se [213.100.167.236]) by mail.tail-f.com (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 4298276C51F; Mon, 5 Jan 2009 10:12:12 +0100 (CET) Date: Mon, 05 Jan 2009 10:12:10 +0100 (CET) Message-Id: <20090105.101210.121635898.mbj@tail-f.com> To: andy@netconfcentral.com From: Martin Bjorklund In-Reply-To: <495FB235.5080303@netconfcentral.com> References: <495FB235.5080303@netconfcentral.com> X-Mailer: Mew version 6.0.51 on Emacs 22.2 / Mule 5.0 (SAKAKI) Mime-Version: 1.0 Cc: netmod@ietf.org Subject: Re: [netmod] canonical order X-BeenThere: netmod@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.9 Precedence: list List-Id: NETMOD WG list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: netmod-bounces@ietf.org Errors-To: netmod-bounces@ietf.org Andy Bierman wrote: > the > canonical order of a NETMOD database needs to > be defined in the draft. I think there are two simple solutions: 1. State that the order that currently is the defined PDU order instead is the canonical datastore order. 2. State that any order in the datastore is implementation specific. Consequently, XPath functions related to this order should not be used. (note that even the XPath spec states that the order among some specific nodes are implementation dependent) Related to ordering, the draft currently has this text about how augmented nodes are encoded: When a node is augmented, the augmented child nodes are encoded after all normal child nodes. If the node is augmented more than once, the blocks of augmented child nodes are sorted (in alphanumeric order) according to their namespace URI and name of the first child node in each block. I was thinking this should be removed, but unless we want to do (2) above, maybe it should stay. /martin _______________________________________________ netmod mailing list netmod@ietf.org https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/netmod From netmod-bounces@ietf.org Mon Jan 5 01:33:43 2009 Return-Path: X-Original-To: netmod-archive@ietf.org Delivered-To: ietfarch-netmod-archive@core3.amsl.com Received: from [127.0.0.1] (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id D89873A67A4; Mon, 5 Jan 2009 01:33:43 -0800 (PST) X-Original-To: netmod@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: netmod@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id E45943A69F6 for ; Mon, 5 Jan 2009 01:33:42 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.05 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.05 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=0.200, BAYES_00=-2.599, HELO_EQ_CZ=0.445, HOST_EQ_CZ=0.904] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 4cyAVef9WJev for ; Mon, 5 Jan 2009 01:33:42 -0800 (PST) Received: from office2.cesnet.cz (office2.cesnet.cz [195.113.144.244]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1A8F23A67A4 for ; Mon, 5 Jan 2009 01:33:42 -0800 (PST) Received: from [172.29.2.201] (asus-gx.lhotka.cesnet.cz [195.113.161.161]) by office2.cesnet.cz (Postfix) with ESMTP id 16B6BD800BD; Mon, 5 Jan 2009 10:33:29 +0100 (CET) From: Ladislav Lhotka To: Martin Bjorklund In-Reply-To: <20090105.101210.121635898.mbj@tail-f.com> References: <495FB235.5080303@netconfcentral.com> <20090105.101210.121635898.mbj@tail-f.com> Organization: CESNET Date: Mon, 05 Jan 2009 10:33:28 +0100 Message-Id: <1231148008.31844.25.camel@missotis> Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Evolution 2.22.3.1 Cc: netmod@ietf.org Subject: Re: [netmod] canonical order X-BeenThere: netmod@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.9 Precedence: list List-Id: NETMOD WG list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 Sender: netmod-bounces@ietf.org Errors-To: netmod-bounces@ietf.org TWFydGluIEJqb3JrbHVuZCBww63FoWUgdiBQbyAwNS4gMDEuIDIwMDkgdiAxMDoxMiArMDEwMDoK PiBBbmR5IEJpZXJtYW4gPGFuZHlAbmV0Y29uZmNlbnRyYWwuY29tPiB3cm90ZToKPiAKPiA+IHRo ZQo+ID4gY2Fub25pY2FsIG9yZGVyIG9mIGEgTkVUTU9EIGRhdGFiYXNlIG5lZWRzIHRvCj4gPiBi ZSBkZWZpbmVkIGluIHRoZSBkcmFmdC4KPiAKPiBJIHRoaW5rIHRoZXJlIGFyZSB0d28gc2ltcGxl IHNvbHV0aW9uczoKCkFub3RoZXIgc29sdXRpb24gd291bGQgYmUgdG8gbWFrZSB0aGUgb3JkZXIg YXJiaXRyYXJ5IGJvdGggaW4gdGhlCmRhdGFzdG9yZSBhbmQgaW4gUERVcy4gQXJlIHRoZXJlIGFu eSB1c2UgY2FzZXMgd2hlcmUgdGhlIG9yZGVyIGlzCmltcG9ydGFudD8KCldlIGhhdmUgdG8gYmUg Y2FyZWZ1bCB3aXRoIChsZWFmLSlsaXN0cyB0aG91Z2gsIGl0IHdvdWxkIHByb2JhYmx5IG5vdCBi ZQphIGdvb2QgaWRlYSB0byBpbnRlcmxlYXZlIGxpc3QgaXRlbXMgd2l0aCBvdGhlciBzaWJsaW5n IG5vZGVzLgoKTGFkYQoKPiAKPiAgIDEuIFN0YXRlIHRoYXQgdGhlIG9yZGVyIHRoYXQgY3VycmVu dGx5IGlzIHRoZSBkZWZpbmVkIFBEVSBvcmRlcgo+ICAgICAgaW5zdGVhZCBpcyB0aGUgY2Fub25p Y2FsIGRhdGFzdG9yZSBvcmRlci4KPiAKPiAgIDIuIFN0YXRlIHRoYXQgYW55IG9yZGVyIGluIHRo ZSBkYXRhc3RvcmUgaXMgaW1wbGVtZW50YXRpb24KPiAgICAgIHNwZWNpZmljLiAgQ29uc2VxdWVu dGx5LCBYUGF0aCBmdW5jdGlvbnMgcmVsYXRlZCB0byB0aGlzIG9yZGVyCj4gICAgICBzaG91bGQg bm90IGJlIHVzZWQuCj4gCj4gICAgICAobm90ZSB0aGF0IGV2ZW4gdGhlIFhQYXRoIHNwZWMgc3Rh dGVzIHRoYXQgdGhlIG9yZGVyIGFtb25nIHNvbWUKPiAgICAgIHNwZWNpZmljIG5vZGVzIGFyZSBp bXBsZW1lbnRhdGlvbiBkZXBlbmRlbnQpCj4gCj4gUmVsYXRlZCB0byBvcmRlcmluZywgdGhlIGRy YWZ0IGN1cnJlbnRseSBoYXMgdGhpcyB0ZXh0IGFib3V0IGhvdwo+IGF1Z21lbnRlZCBub2RlcyBh cmUgZW5jb2RlZDoKPiAKPiAgIFdoZW4gYSBub2RlIGlzIGF1Z21lbnRlZCwgdGhlIGF1Z21lbnRl ZCBjaGlsZCBub2RlcyBhcmUgZW5jb2RlZAo+ICAgYWZ0ZXIgYWxsIG5vcm1hbCBjaGlsZCBub2Rl cy4gIElmIHRoZSBub2RlIGlzIGF1Z21lbnRlZCBtb3JlIHRoYW4KPiAgIG9uY2UsIHRoZSBibG9j a3Mgb2YgYXVnbWVudGVkIGNoaWxkIG5vZGVzIGFyZSBzb3J0ZWQgKGluCj4gICBhbHBoYW51bWVy aWMgb3JkZXIpIGFjY29yZGluZyB0byB0aGVpciBuYW1lc3BhY2UgVVJJIGFuZCBuYW1lIG9mIHRo ZQo+ICAgZmlyc3QgY2hpbGQgbm9kZSBpbiBlYWNoIGJsb2NrLgo+IAo+IEkgd2FzIHRoaW5raW5n IHRoaXMgc2hvdWxkIGJlIHJlbW92ZWQsIGJ1dCB1bmxlc3Mgd2Ugd2FudCB0byBkbyAoMikKPiBh Ym92ZSwgbWF5YmUgaXQgc2hvdWxkIHN0YXkuCj4gCj4gCj4gL21hcnRpbgo+IAo+IF9fX19fX19f X19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fCj4gbmV0bW9kIG1haWxpbmcg bGlzdAo+IG5ldG1vZEBpZXRmLm9yZwo+IGh0dHBzOi8vd3d3LmlldGYub3JnL21haWxtYW4vbGlz dGluZm8vbmV0bW9kCi0tIApMYWRpc2xhdiBMaG90a2EsIENFU05FVApQR1AgS2V5IElEOiBFNzRF OEMwQwoKX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX18KbmV0 bW9kIG1haWxpbmcgbGlzdApuZXRtb2RAaWV0Zi5vcmcKaHR0cHM6Ly93d3cuaWV0Zi5vcmcvbWFp bG1hbi9saXN0aW5mby9uZXRtb2QK From netmod-bounces@ietf.org Mon Jan 5 02:01:35 2009 Return-Path: X-Original-To: netmod-archive@ietf.org Delivered-To: ietfarch-netmod-archive@core3.amsl.com Received: from [127.0.0.1] (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id BD3233A63CB; Mon, 5 Jan 2009 02:01:35 -0800 (PST) X-Original-To: netmod@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: netmod@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 482673A67A4 for ; Mon, 5 Jan 2009 02:01:34 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.018 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.018 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=0.028, BAYES_00=-2.599, HELO_MISMATCH_COM=0.553] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 01CdOGtWvJ88 for ; Mon, 5 Jan 2009 02:01:33 -0800 (PST) Received: from mail.tail-f.com (de-0316.d.ipeer.se [213.180.79.212]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7B3B53A63CB for ; Mon, 5 Jan 2009 02:01:33 -0800 (PST) Received: from localhost (c213-100-167-236.swipnet.se [213.100.167.236]) by mail.tail-f.com (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 9CB1876C51F; Mon, 5 Jan 2009 11:01:20 +0100 (CET) Date: Mon, 05 Jan 2009 11:01:18 +0100 (CET) Message-Id: <20090105.110118.138972369.mbj@tail-f.com> To: andy@netconfcentral.com From: Martin Bjorklund In-Reply-To: <495A5A27.4010100@netconfcentral.com> References: <20081230.143906.130384865.mbj@tail-f.com> <495A5A27.4010100@netconfcentral.com> X-Mailer: Mew version 6.0.51 on Emacs 22.2 / Mule 5.0 (SAKAKI) Mime-Version: 1.0 Cc: netmod@ietf.org Subject: Re: [netmod] canonical form of floats X-BeenThere: netmod@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.9 Precedence: list List-Id: NETMOD WG list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: netmod-bounces@ietf.org Errors-To: netmod-bounces@ietf.org Andy Bierman wrote: > XPath parsers will not accept the "+/- exponent" part, > and will (incorrectly) accept an AdditiveExpr [rule 25] instead. > > Since that won't work, even though it exactly meets > the real needs of the NETCONF community, setting > the precision manually for the %f option seems > the obvious next choice. The values to set manually > are not so obvious. So, to summarize... we'd like to be compatible with existing technology. At a first glance, XSD seems to be the obvious candidate, but XSD defines the canonical form to be in a form that XPath does not understand. So if we use the XSD definition, XPath won't work. So we need to come up with our own definition. So, what value should we use for the precision in %f? Is there a theoretical maximum we could use? Otherwise we'll have to pick a "large" number. Unfortunately, %f pads with trailing zeros, but OTOH, since it's straightforward to remove these trailing zeros after the call to snprintf, we could state that trailing zeros are removed in the canonical form. Also, if we use "%f" we might want to align our "[-]INF" and "NaN" to "[-]inf" and "nan". /martin _______________________________________________ netmod mailing list netmod@ietf.org https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/netmod From netmod-bounces@ietf.org Mon Jan 5 03:21:37 2009 Return-Path: X-Original-To: netmod-archive@ietf.org Delivered-To: ietfarch-netmod-archive@core3.amsl.com Received: from [127.0.0.1] (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9A3F93A67AB; Mon, 5 Jan 2009 03:21:37 -0800 (PST) X-Original-To: netmod@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: netmod@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 74AEA3A6859 for ; Mon, 5 Jan 2009 03:21:36 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -6.199 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-6.199 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=0.050, BAYES_00=-2.599, HELO_EQ_SE=0.35, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-4] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id Drugatc5CAoI for ; Mon, 5 Jan 2009 03:21:35 -0800 (PST) Received: from mailgw4.ericsson.se (mailgw4.ericsson.se [193.180.251.62]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8D0363A6781 for ; Mon, 5 Jan 2009 03:21:35 -0800 (PST) Received: from mailgw4.ericsson.se (unknown [127.0.0.1]) by mailgw4.ericsson.se (Symantec Mail Security) with ESMTP id 21F7521431; Mon, 5 Jan 2009 12:21:21 +0100 (CET) X-AuditID: c1b4fb3e-af871bb00000429e-4c-4961ed31bdd2 Received: from esealmw127.eemea.ericsson.se (unknown [153.88.253.125]) by mailgw4.ericsson.se (Symantec Mail Security) with ESMTP id 04983213B3; Mon, 5 Jan 2009 12:21:21 +0100 (CET) Received: from esealmw129.eemea.ericsson.se ([153.88.254.177]) by esealmw127.eemea.ericsson.se with Microsoft SMTPSVC(6.0.3790.1830); Mon, 5 Jan 2009 12:21:20 +0100 Received: from [159.107.197.224] ([159.107.197.224]) by esealmw129.eemea.ericsson.se with Microsoft SMTPSVC(6.0.3790.1830); Mon, 5 Jan 2009 12:21:20 +0100 Message-ID: <4961ED30.3010509@ericsson.com> Date: Mon, 05 Jan 2009 12:21:20 +0100 From: Balazs Lengyel User-Agent: Thunderbird 2.0.0.4 (X11/20070604) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Andy Bierman References: <4951803E.8030009@netconfcentral.com> <20090102185619.GA7845@elstar.local> <495E799B.3020805@netconfcentral.com> In-Reply-To: <495E799B.3020805@netconfcentral.com> X-OriginalArrivalTime: 05 Jan 2009 11:21:20.0176 (UTC) FILETIME=[BBCA1300:01C96F27] X-Brightmail-Tracker: AAAAAA== Cc: NETMOD Working Group Subject: Re: [netmod] container netconf X-BeenThere: netmod@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.9 Precedence: list List-Id: NETMOD WG list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; Format="flowed" Sender: netmod-bounces@ietf.org Errors-To: netmod-bounces@ietf.org +1 I think we absolutely should provide some structure. This looks like a good idea, that IMHO conforms to the basic idea we had when we defined the notifications draft. However we would probably need to verify tis decision on the Netconf list as well. Balazs Andy Bierman wrote: > kept online on IANA. Republishing that as an RFC every > time a new module came out seems cumbersome. > > I prefer N namespaces, but starting out with an > augment-able container that gets designated for the category. > All standard extensions (and vendor if they want) would > be required to use the most appropriate existing container. > The YANG MIB Doctors should have to approve new standard > containers, as part of their review process. > > module netconf-root { > > // no objects except this empty NP container > container netconf; > } > > module partial-lock { > > import netconf-root { prefix root; } > > augment "/root:netconf" { > // all the partial-lock objects in this namespace > } > > rpc partial-lock { ... } > > rpc partial-unlock { ... } > } > > This requires no IANA support, and separate RFCs for each > data model in the category do not impact each other > (especially with import-by-revision added to the mix). > _______________________________________________ netmod mailing list netmod@ietf.org https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/netmod From netmod-bounces@ietf.org Mon Jan 5 03:21:58 2009 Return-Path: X-Original-To: netmod-archive@ietf.org Delivered-To: ietfarch-netmod-archive@core3.amsl.com Received: from [127.0.0.1] (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id AC2763A6781; Mon, 5 Jan 2009 03:21:58 -0800 (PST) X-Original-To: netmod@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: netmod@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6C3C43A6859 for ; Mon, 5 Jan 2009 03:21:57 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -6.202 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-6.202 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=0.047, BAYES_00=-2.599, HELO_EQ_SE=0.35, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-4] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id GJ1QwA1v9fyR for ; Mon, 5 Jan 2009 03:21:56 -0800 (PST) Received: from mailgw3.ericsson.se (mailgw3.ericsson.se [193.180.251.60]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 848A53A6781 for ; Mon, 5 Jan 2009 03:21:56 -0800 (PST) Received: from mailgw3.ericsson.se (unknown [127.0.0.1]) by mailgw3.ericsson.se (Symantec Mail Security) with ESMTP id 721B220D82; Mon, 5 Jan 2009 12:21:42 +0100 (CET) X-AuditID: c1b4fb3c-af761bb00000304c-cd-4961ed459aab Received: from esealmw126.eemea.ericsson.se (unknown [153.88.253.125]) by mailgw3.ericsson.se (Symantec Mail Security) with ESMTP id EDEBD20D7B; Mon, 5 Jan 2009 12:21:41 +0100 (CET) Received: from esealmw126.eemea.ericsson.se ([153.88.254.174]) by esealmw126.eemea.ericsson.se with Microsoft SMTPSVC(6.0.3790.1830); Mon, 5 Jan 2009 12:21:39 +0100 Received: from [159.107.197.224] ([159.107.197.224]) by esealmw126.eemea.ericsson.se with Microsoft SMTPSVC(6.0.3790.1830); Mon, 5 Jan 2009 12:21:39 +0100 Message-ID: <4961ED42.8030000@ericsson.com> Date: Mon, 05 Jan 2009 12:21:38 +0100 From: Balazs Lengyel User-Agent: Thunderbird 2.0.0.4 (X11/20070604) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Andy Bierman References: <494FA046.1080309@netconfcentral.com> In-Reply-To: <494FA046.1080309@netconfcentral.com> X-OriginalArrivalTime: 05 Jan 2009 11:21:39.0415 (UTC) FILETIME=[C741B670:01C96F27] X-Brightmail-Tracker: AAAAAA== Cc: NETMOD Working Group Subject: Re: [netmod] why does deviation-stmt have restrictions? X-BeenThere: netmod@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.9 Precedence: list List-Id: NETMOD WG list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; Format="flowed" Sender: netmod-bounces@ietf.org Errors-To: netmod-bounces@ietf.org +1. IMO the only restriction on deviations should be that: once you applied all deviations, the resulting YANG model must be valid. (Which is nowhere stated today.) Deviations are for documenting how people do non-standard (or stupid things). The assumption that we can restrict what kind of strange things they will do is rather shaky. Today deviations do not allow adding new nodes. So if someone does add a new node, we do not want that documented? Balazs Andy Bierman wrote: > Hi, > > It seems odd that we are placing lots of restrictions on > what a deviation is allowed to change. I even suggested > that the builtin type MUST NOT change. > > I think we have the completely wrong perception > of deviation-stmt. All these restrictions make > is seem like deviations are an acceptable part of > the data model. You don't like a clause? -- then just > replace it or remove it with a deviation-stmt. > It's OK in YANG. > > There is a strong chance your competitor in the market > will not spin your deviations the same way. Deviations > are mostly documenting the manner in which the agent does the > WRONG, INCORRECT, NOT COMPLIANT, NON-STANDARD thing. > > In that respect, any valid YANG construct should > be OK for a deviation (e.g., you cannot add a units-clause > to a container, but you should replace the units > clause on a leaf if you implemented the units wrong). _______________________________________________ netmod mailing list netmod@ietf.org https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/netmod From netmod-bounces@ietf.org Mon Jan 5 04:00:42 2009 Return-Path: X-Original-To: netmod-archive@ietf.org Delivered-To: ietfarch-netmod-archive@core3.amsl.com Received: from [127.0.0.1] (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9CF863A67F1; Mon, 5 Jan 2009 04:00:42 -0800 (PST) X-Original-To: netmod@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: netmod@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 586C83A67F1 for ; Mon, 5 Jan 2009 04:00:41 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.018 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.018 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=0.028, BAYES_00=-2.599, HELO_MISMATCH_COM=0.553] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id mWVO1mtA4U1O for ; Mon, 5 Jan 2009 04:00:39 -0800 (PST) Received: from mail.tail-f.com (de-0316.d.ipeer.se [213.180.79.212]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 31BA43A693E for ; Mon, 5 Jan 2009 04:00:38 -0800 (PST) Received: from localhost (c213-100-167-236.swipnet.se [213.100.167.236]) by mail.tail-f.com (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 5CB5F76C51F; Mon, 5 Jan 2009 13:00:25 +0100 (CET) Date: Mon, 05 Jan 2009 13:00:25 +0100 (CET) Message-Id: <20090105.130025.255233375.mbj@tail-f.com> To: andy@netconfcentral.com From: Martin Bjorklund In-Reply-To: <20081229.232315.257844469.mbj@tail-f.com> References: <20081229.210146.54343388.mbj@tail-f.com> <495933C5.6020602@netconfcentral.com> <20081229.232315.257844469.mbj@tail-f.com> X-Mailer: Mew version 6.0.51 on Emacs 22.2 / Mule 5.0 (SAKAKI) Mime-Version: 1.0 Cc: netmod@ietf.org Subject: Re: [netmod] XPath document root X-BeenThere: netmod@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.9 Precedence: list List-Id: NETMOD WG list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: netmod-bounces@ietf.org Errors-To: netmod-bounces@ietf.org Hi, How about adding new text after: The XPath expression is conceptually evaluated in the following context: o The context node is the node in the data tree for which the "must" statement is defined. o The accessible tree is made up of all nodes in the data tree, and all leafs with default values. ... NEW: The accessible data tree depends on the context node: o If the context node represents configuration, the tree is the data in one of the datastores , , or . o If the context node represents state data, the tree is all state data on the device, and the datastore. o If the context node represents notification content, the tree is the notification XML instance document, with the root node being the element representing the notification. o If the context node represents RPC input parameters, the tree is the RPC XML instance document, with the root node being the element representing the RPC method. o If the context node represents RPC output parameters, the tree is the RPC reply instance document, with the root node being the element. This would be added to the must and when sections. Do we need more text? /martin _______________________________________________ netmod mailing list netmod@ietf.org https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/netmod From netmod-bounces@ietf.org Mon Jan 5 04:14:55 2009 Return-Path: X-Original-To: netmod-archive@ietf.org Delivered-To: ietfarch-netmod-archive@core3.amsl.com Received: from [127.0.0.1] (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id EE4563A676A; Mon, 5 Jan 2009 04:14:55 -0800 (PST) X-Original-To: netmod@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: netmod@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id B19463A67D4 for ; Mon, 5 Jan 2009 04:14:54 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.12 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.12 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=0.129, BAYES_00=-2.599, HELO_EQ_DE=0.35] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id eKz-aKG2pFXN for ; Mon, 5 Jan 2009 04:14:53 -0800 (PST) Received: from hermes.jacobs-university.de (hermes.jacobs-university.de [212.201.44.23]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5B4533A676A for ; Mon, 5 Jan 2009 04:14:53 -0800 (PST) Received: from localhost (demetrius2.jacobs-university.de [212.201.44.47]) by hermes.jacobs-university.de (Postfix) with ESMTP id F2AA2C0023; Mon, 5 Jan 2009 13:14:39 +0100 (CET) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at jacobs-university.de Received: from hermes.jacobs-university.de ([212.201.44.23]) by localhost (demetrius2.jacobs-university.de [212.201.44.32]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id XcvYw6n-IJ4F; Mon, 5 Jan 2009 13:14:34 +0100 (CET) Received: from elstar.local (elstar.iuhb02.iu-bremen.de [10.50.231.133]) by hermes.jacobs-university.de (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2900AC0010; Mon, 5 Jan 2009 13:14:34 +0100 (CET) Received: by elstar.local (Postfix, from userid 501) id E1F1B8DD52E; Mon, 5 Jan 2009 13:14:33 +0100 (CET) Date: Mon, 5 Jan 2009 13:14:33 +0100 From: Juergen Schoenwaelder To: Andy Bierman Message-ID: <20090105121433.GA6993@elstar.local> Mail-Followup-To: Andy Bierman , NETMOD Working Group References: <4951803E.8030009@netconfcentral.com> <20090102185619.GA7845@elstar.local> <495E799B.3020805@netconfcentral.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <495E799B.3020805@netconfcentral.com> User-Agent: Mutt/1.5.18 (2008-05-17) Cc: NETMOD Working Group Subject: Re: [netmod] container netconf X-BeenThere: netmod@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.9 Precedence: list Reply-To: j.schoenwaelder@jacobs-university.de List-Id: NETMOD WG list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: netmod-bounces@ietf.org Errors-To: netmod-bounces@ietf.org On Fri, Jan 02, 2009 at 12:31:23PM -0800, Andy Bierman wrote: > I prefer N namespaces, but starting out with an > augment-able container that gets designated for the category. > All standard extensions (and vendor if they want) would > be required to use the most appropriate existing container. Which problem does this solve? > The YANG MIB Doctors should have to approve new standard > containers, as part of their review process. My understanding is that MIB doctors review and provide input to the AD and the IESG but do not approve anything. Back to the subject. Can we make a list of options and list the pros and cons? Here is a start: a) do nothing - modules pick namespaces and roots at random pro: no coordination required con: potentially confusing b) related definitions share a single namespace by using submodules pro: all related definitions share the same namespace making filtered retrieval can cross references easier con: requires coordination and an IANA maintained module com: since vendor extensions must use augmentations, there is organizationally a difference between extensions provided by the owner of the module (namespace) and extensions provided by other parties c) related definitions in separate modules (namespaces) augment a common root pro: requires no coordination via IANA since everyone is free to augment anything con: related definitions exist in different namespaces potentially complicating filtered retrieval and cross references Are there more options or pros and cons? What do operators prefer? is having all SNMP/NETCONF/you name it definition in one namespace preferrable over a solution where things are split into N different namespaces, reflecting the evolution of the definitions over time? /js -- Juergen Schoenwaelder Jacobs University Bremen gGmbH Phone: +49 421 200 3587 Campus Ring 1, 28759 Bremen, Germany Fax: +49 421 200 3103 _______________________________________________ netmod mailing list netmod@ietf.org https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/netmod From netmod-bounces@ietf.org Mon Jan 5 05:11:00 2009 Return-Path: X-Original-To: netmod-archive@ietf.org Delivered-To: ietfarch-netmod-archive@core3.amsl.com Received: from [127.0.0.1] (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 608D53A68B6; Mon, 5 Jan 2009 05:11:00 -0800 (PST) X-Original-To: netmod@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: netmod@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 02B363A68C1 for ; Mon, 5 Jan 2009 05:10:58 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -6.599 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-6.599 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-2.599, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-4] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id EQyHhSs5VBNs for ; Mon, 5 Jan 2009 05:10:58 -0800 (PST) Received: from exprod7og102.obsmtp.com (exprod7og102.obsmtp.com [64.18.2.157]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id ACE453A689E for ; Mon, 5 Jan 2009 05:10:56 -0800 (PST) Received: from source ([66.129.224.36]) (using TLSv1) by exprod7ob102.postini.com ([64.18.6.12]) with SMTP ID DSNKSWIG0aP8n/fcf2zjaPAz264vM1d3td89@postini.com; Mon, 05 Jan 2009 05:10:45 PST Received: from p-emfe01-sac.jnpr.net (66.129.254.72) by P-EMHUB01-HQ.jnpr.net (172.24.192.35) with Microsoft SMTP Server id 8.1.336.0; Mon, 5 Jan 2009 05:08:44 -0800 Received: from p-emlb01-sac.jnpr.net ([66.129.254.46]) by p-emfe01-sac.jnpr.net with Microsoft SMTPSVC(6.0.3790.3959); Mon, 5 Jan 2009 05:08:44 -0800 Received: from emailsmtp55.jnpr.net ([172.24.18.132]) by p-emlb01-sac.jnpr.net with Microsoft SMTPSVC(6.0.3790.3959); Mon, 5 Jan 2009 05:08:44 -0800 Received: from magenta.juniper.net ([172.17.27.123]) by emailsmtp55.jnpr.net with Microsoft SMTPSVC(6.0.3790.1830); Mon, 5 Jan 2009 05:08:44 -0800 Received: from idle.juniper.net (idleski.juniper.net [172.25.4.26]) by magenta.juniper.net (8.11.3/8.11.3) with ESMTP id n05D8hM46775; Mon, 5 Jan 2009 05:08:43 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from phil@juniper.net) Received: from idle.juniper.net (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by idle.juniper.net (8.13.8/8.13.8) with ESMTP id n05D2vF7037998; Mon, 5 Jan 2009 13:02:57 GMT (envelope-from phil@idle.juniper.net) Message-ID: <200901051302.n05D2vF7037998@idle.juniper.net> To: Martin Bjorklund In-Reply-To: <20090105.101210.121635898.mbj@tail-f.com> Date: Mon, 5 Jan 2009 08:02:57 -0500 From: Phil Shafer X-OriginalArrivalTime: 05 Jan 2009 13:08:44.0096 (UTC) FILETIME=[BCAA3C00:01C96F36] MIME-Version: 1.0 Cc: netmod@ietf.org Subject: Re: [netmod] canonical order X-BeenThere: netmod@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.9 Precedence: list List-Id: NETMOD WG list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: netmod-bounces@ietf.org Errors-To: netmod-bounces@ietf.org +1 to both option 2 and removing the current text re: sorting. Both should be implementation details and encouraging their use will increase the cost for NETCONF server implementations and will give no real benefit. Thanks, Phil Martin Bjorklund writes: >Andy Bierman wrote: > >> the >> canonical order of a NETMOD database needs to >> be defined in the draft. > >I think there are two simple solutions: > > 1. State that the order that currently is the defined PDU order > instead is the canonical datastore order. > > 2. State that any order in the datastore is implementation > specific. Consequently, XPath functions related to this order > should not be used. > > (note that even the XPath spec states that the order among some > specific nodes are implementation dependent) > >Related to ordering, the draft currently has this text about how >augmented nodes are encoded: > > When a node is augmented, the augmented child nodes are encoded > after all normal child nodes. If the node is augmented more than > once, the blocks of augmented child nodes are sorted (in > alphanumeric order) according to their namespace URI and name of the > first child node in each block. > >I was thinking this should be removed, but unless we want to do (2) >above, maybe it should stay. > > >/martin > >_______________________________________________ >netmod mailing list >netmod@ietf.org >https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/netmod _______________________________________________ netmod mailing list netmod@ietf.org https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/netmod From netmod-bounces@ietf.org Mon Jan 5 05:24:07 2009 Return-Path: X-Original-To: netmod-archive@ietf.org Delivered-To: ietfarch-netmod-archive@core3.amsl.com Received: from [127.0.0.1] (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id AE2AC3A6940; Mon, 5 Jan 2009 05:24:07 -0800 (PST) X-Original-To: netmod@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: netmod@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4020D3A6940 for ; Mon, 5 Jan 2009 05:24:06 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.054 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.054 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=0.196, BAYES_00=-2.599, HELO_EQ_CZ=0.445, HOST_EQ_CZ=0.904] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id Hek0Dyq9XVAO for ; Mon, 5 Jan 2009 05:24:05 -0800 (PST) Received: from office2.cesnet.cz (office2.cesnet.cz [195.113.144.244]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6BC6F3A688B for ; Mon, 5 Jan 2009 05:24:05 -0800 (PST) Received: from [172.29.2.201] (asus-gx.lhotka.cesnet.cz [195.113.161.161]) by office2.cesnet.cz (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2E2C4D800BD for ; Mon, 5 Jan 2009 14:23:52 +0100 (CET) From: Ladislav Lhotka To: netmod@ietf.org In-Reply-To: <200901051302.n05D2vF7037998@idle.juniper.net> References: <200901051302.n05D2vF7037998@idle.juniper.net> Organization: CESNET Date: Mon, 05 Jan 2009 14:23:52 +0100 Message-Id: <1231161832.16425.5.camel@missotis> Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Evolution 2.22.3.1 Subject: Re: [netmod] canonical order X-BeenThere: netmod@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.9 Precedence: list List-Id: NETMOD WG list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 Sender: netmod-bounces@ietf.org Errors-To: netmod-bounces@ietf.org UGhpbCBTaGFmZXIgcMOtxaFlIHYgUG8gMDUuIDAxLiAyMDA5IHYgMDg6MDIgLTA1MDA6Cj4gKzEg dG8gYm90aCBvcHRpb24gMiBhbmQgcmVtb3ZpbmcgdGhlIGN1cnJlbnQgdGV4dCByZTogc29ydGlu Zy4KPiBCb3RoIHNob3VsZCBiZSBpbXBsZW1lbnRhdGlvbiBkZXRhaWxzIGFuZCBlbmNvdXJhZ2lu ZyB0aGVpcgo+IHVzZSB3aWxsIGluY3JlYXNlIHRoZSBjb3N0IGZvciBORVRDT05GIHNlcnZlciBp bXBsZW1lbnRhdGlvbnMKPiBhbmQgd2lsbCBnaXZlIG5vIHJlYWwgYmVuZWZpdC4KCklmIHRoZSBz b3J0aW5nIHJ1bGUgaXMgcmVtb3ZlZCwgd2hhdCB3aWxsIHRoZW4gYmUgdGhlIG9yZGVyIG9mIGVs ZW1lbnRzCmluIFBEVXMgaWYgYSBtb2R1bGUgaXMgYXVnbWVudGVkIGF0IHRoZSBzYW1lIHNwb3Qg YnkgdHdvIG9yIG1vcmUKbW9kdWxlcz8gSXMgaXQgc3VwcG9zZWQgdG8gYmUgYXJiaXRyYXJ5IGFz IHdlbGw/CgpMYWRhCgo+IAo+IFRoYW5rcywKPiAgUGhpbAo+IAo+IAo+IAo+IE1hcnRpbiBCam9y a2x1bmQgd3JpdGVzOgo+ID5BbmR5IEJpZXJtYW4gPGFuZHlAbmV0Y29uZmNlbnRyYWwuY29tPiB3 cm90ZToKPiA+Cj4gPj4gdGhlCj4gPj4gY2Fub25pY2FsIG9yZGVyIG9mIGEgTkVUTU9EIGRhdGFi YXNlIG5lZWRzIHRvCj4gPj4gYmUgZGVmaW5lZCBpbiB0aGUgZHJhZnQuCj4gPgo+ID5JIHRoaW5r IHRoZXJlIGFyZSB0d28gc2ltcGxlIHNvbHV0aW9uczoKPiA+Cj4gPiAgMS4gU3RhdGUgdGhhdCB0 aGUgb3JkZXIgdGhhdCBjdXJyZW50bHkgaXMgdGhlIGRlZmluZWQgUERVIG9yZGVyCj4gPiAgICAg aW5zdGVhZCBpcyB0aGUgY2Fub25pY2FsIGRhdGFzdG9yZSBvcmRlci4KPiA+Cj4gPiAgMi4gU3Rh dGUgdGhhdCBhbnkgb3JkZXIgaW4gdGhlIGRhdGFzdG9yZSBpcyBpbXBsZW1lbnRhdGlvbgo+ID4g ICAgIHNwZWNpZmljLiAgQ29uc2VxdWVudGx5LCBYUGF0aCBmdW5jdGlvbnMgcmVsYXRlZCB0byB0 aGlzIG9yZGVyCj4gPiAgICAgc2hvdWxkIG5vdCBiZSB1c2VkLgo+ID4KPiA+ICAgICAobm90ZSB0 aGF0IGV2ZW4gdGhlIFhQYXRoIHNwZWMgc3RhdGVzIHRoYXQgdGhlIG9yZGVyIGFtb25nIHNvbWUK PiA+ICAgICBzcGVjaWZpYyBub2RlcyBhcmUgaW1wbGVtZW50YXRpb24gZGVwZW5kZW50KQo+ID4K PiA+UmVsYXRlZCB0byBvcmRlcmluZywgdGhlIGRyYWZ0IGN1cnJlbnRseSBoYXMgdGhpcyB0ZXh0 IGFib3V0IGhvdwo+ID5hdWdtZW50ZWQgbm9kZXMgYXJlIGVuY29kZWQ6Cj4gPgo+ID4gIFdoZW4g YSBub2RlIGlzIGF1Z21lbnRlZCwgdGhlIGF1Z21lbnRlZCBjaGlsZCBub2RlcyBhcmUgZW5jb2Rl ZAo+ID4gIGFmdGVyIGFsbCBub3JtYWwgY2hpbGQgbm9kZXMuICBJZiB0aGUgbm9kZSBpcyBhdWdt ZW50ZWQgbW9yZSB0aGFuCj4gPiAgb25jZSwgdGhlIGJsb2NrcyBvZiBhdWdtZW50ZWQgY2hpbGQg bm9kZXMgYXJlIHNvcnRlZCAoaW4KPiA+ICBhbHBoYW51bWVyaWMgb3JkZXIpIGFjY29yZGluZyB0 byB0aGVpciBuYW1lc3BhY2UgVVJJIGFuZCBuYW1lIG9mIHRoZQo+ID4gIGZpcnN0IGNoaWxkIG5v ZGUgaW4gZWFjaCBibG9jay4KPiA+Cj4gPkkgd2FzIHRoaW5raW5nIHRoaXMgc2hvdWxkIGJlIHJl bW92ZWQsIGJ1dCB1bmxlc3Mgd2Ugd2FudCB0byBkbyAoMikKPiA+YWJvdmUsIG1heWJlIGl0IHNo b3VsZCBzdGF5Lgo+ID4KPiA+Cj4gPi9tYXJ0aW4KPiA+Cj4gPl9fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19f X19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fCj4gPm5ldG1vZCBtYWlsaW5nIGxpc3QKPiA+bmV0 bW9kQGlldGYub3JnCj4gPmh0dHBzOi8vd3d3LmlldGYub3JnL21haWxtYW4vbGlzdGluZm8vbmV0 bW9kCj4gX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX18KPiBu ZXRtb2QgbWFpbGluZyBsaXN0Cj4gbmV0bW9kQGlldGYub3JnCj4gaHR0cHM6Ly93d3cuaWV0Zi5v cmcvbWFpbG1hbi9saXN0aW5mby9uZXRtb2QKLS0gCkxhZGlzbGF2IExob3RrYSwgQ0VTTkVUClBH UCBLZXkgSUQ6IEU3NEU4QzBDCgpfX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19f X19fX19fX19fXwpuZXRtb2QgbWFpbGluZyBsaXN0Cm5ldG1vZEBpZXRmLm9yZwpodHRwczovL3d3 dy5pZXRmLm9yZy9tYWlsbWFuL2xpc3RpbmZvL25ldG1vZAo= From netmod-bounces@ietf.org Mon Jan 5 05:28:17 2009 Return-Path: X-Original-To: netmod-archive@ietf.org Delivered-To: ietfarch-netmod-archive@core3.amsl.com Received: from [127.0.0.1] (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id BC3873A6940; Mon, 5 Jan 2009 05:28:17 -0800 (PST) X-Original-To: netmod@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: netmod@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id D13333A6940 for ; Mon, 5 Jan 2009 05:28:16 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.019 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.019 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=0.027, BAYES_00=-2.599, HELO_MISMATCH_COM=0.553] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id oLR3IUWzjRro for ; Mon, 5 Jan 2009 05:28:16 -0800 (PST) Received: from mail.tail-f.com (de-0316.d.ipeer.se [213.180.79.212]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id DAFC53A688B for ; Mon, 5 Jan 2009 05:28:15 -0800 (PST) Received: from localhost (c213-100-167-236.swipnet.se [213.100.167.236]) by mail.tail-f.com (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 4E54276C51F; Mon, 5 Jan 2009 14:28:02 +0100 (CET) Date: Mon, 05 Jan 2009 14:28:00 +0100 (CET) Message-Id: <20090105.142800.193623806.mbj@tail-f.com> To: lhotka@cesnet.cz From: Martin Bjorklund In-Reply-To: <1231161832.16425.5.camel@missotis> References: <200901051302.n05D2vF7037998@idle.juniper.net> <1231161832.16425.5.camel@missotis> X-Mailer: Mew version 6.0.51 on Emacs 22.2 / Mule 5.0 (SAKAKI) Mime-Version: 1.0 Cc: netmod@ietf.org Subject: Re: [netmod] canonical order X-BeenThere: netmod@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.9 Precedence: list List-Id: NETMOD WG list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 Sender: netmod-bounces@ietf.org Errors-To: netmod-bounces@ietf.org TGFkaXNsYXYgTGhvdGthIDxsaG90a2FAY2VzbmV0LmN6PiB3cm90ZToNCj4gUGhpbCBTaGFmZXIg cMOtxaFlIHYgUG8gMDUuIDAxLiAyMDA5IHYgMDg6MDIgLTA1MDA6DQo+ID4gKzEgdG8gYm90aCBv cHRpb24gMiBhbmQgcmVtb3ZpbmcgdGhlIGN1cnJlbnQgdGV4dCByZTogc29ydGluZy4NCj4gPiBC b3RoIHNob3VsZCBiZSBpbXBsZW1lbnRhdGlvbiBkZXRhaWxzIGFuZCBlbmNvdXJhZ2luZyB0aGVp cg0KPiA+IHVzZSB3aWxsIGluY3JlYXNlIHRoZSBjb3N0IGZvciBORVRDT05GIHNlcnZlciBpbXBs ZW1lbnRhdGlvbnMNCj4gPiBhbmQgd2lsbCBnaXZlIG5vIHJlYWwgYmVuZWZpdC4NCj4gDQo+IElm IHRoZSBzb3J0aW5nIHJ1bGUgaXMgcmVtb3ZlZCwgd2hhdCB3aWxsIHRoZW4gYmUgdGhlIG9yZGVy IG9mIGVsZW1lbnRzDQo+IGluIFBEVXMgaWYgYSBtb2R1bGUgaXMgYXVnbWVudGVkIGF0IHRoZSBz YW1lIHNwb3QgYnkgdHdvIG9yIG1vcmUNCj4gbW9kdWxlcz8gSXMgaXQgc3VwcG9zZWQgdG8gYmUg YXJiaXRyYXJ5IGFzIHdlbGw/DQoNClllcy4gIFRoaXMgaXMgYWxzbyBPSyB3cnQgdGhlIFhTRCBt YXBwaW5nLCBzaW5jZSBhbGwgYXVnbWVudGF0aW9uIGFyZQ0KZG9uZSB1c2luZyBhIHN1YnN0aXR1 dGlvbkdyb3VwLg0KDQoNCi9tYXJ0aW4NCl9fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19f X19fX19fX19fX19fX19fCm5ldG1vZCBtYWlsaW5nIGxpc3QKbmV0bW9kQGlldGYub3JnCmh0dHBz Oi8vd3d3LmlldGYub3JnL21haWxtYW4vbGlzdGluZm8vbmV0bW9kCg== From netmod-bounces@ietf.org Mon Jan 5 05:36:55 2009 Return-Path: X-Original-To: netmod-archive@ietf.org Delivered-To: ietfarch-netmod-archive@core3.amsl.com Received: from [127.0.0.1] (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2EC163A690B; 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Mon, 5 Jan 2009 05:35:34 -0800 Received: from p-emlb02-sac.jnpr.net ([66.129.254.47]) by p-emfe01-sac.jnpr.net with Microsoft SMTPSVC(6.0.3790.3959); Mon, 5 Jan 2009 05:35:34 -0800 Received: from emailsmtp56.jnpr.net ([172.24.60.77]) by p-emlb02-sac.jnpr.net with Microsoft SMTPSVC(6.0.3790.3959); Mon, 5 Jan 2009 05:35:33 -0800 Received: from magenta.juniper.net ([172.17.27.123]) by emailsmtp56.jnpr.net with Microsoft SMTPSVC(6.0.3790.3959); Mon, 5 Jan 2009 05:35:32 -0800 Received: from idle.juniper.net (idleski.juniper.net [172.25.4.26]) by magenta.juniper.net (8.11.3/8.11.3) with ESMTP id n05DZWM64528; Mon, 5 Jan 2009 05:35:32 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from phil@juniper.net) Received: from idle.juniper.net (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by idle.juniper.net (8.13.8/8.13.8) with ESMTP id n05DTkOF038350; Mon, 5 Jan 2009 13:29:46 GMT (envelope-from phil@idle.juniper.net) Message-ID: <200901051329.n05DTkOF038350@idle.juniper.net> To: Ladislav Lhotka In-Reply-To: <1231161832.16425.5.camel@missotis> Date: Mon, 5 Jan 2009 08:29:46 -0500 From: Phil Shafer X-OriginalArrivalTime: 05 Jan 2009 13:35:32.0929 (UTC) FILETIME=[7B9AAB10:01C96F3A] MIME-Version: 1.0 Cc: netmod@ietf.org Subject: Re: [netmod] canonical order X-BeenThere: netmod@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.9 Precedence: list List-Id: NETMOD WG list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: netmod-bounces@ietf.org Errors-To: netmod-bounces@ietf.org Ladislav Lhotka writes: >If the sorting rule is removed, what will then be the order of elements >in PDUs if a module is augmented at the same spot by two or more >modules? Is it supposed to be arbitrary as well? The order in which augmentations appear should be implementation dependent. The only ordering requirement should be that all keys proceed non-keys, to allow servers to avoid buffering. Thanks, Phil _______________________________________________ netmod mailing list netmod@ietf.org https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/netmod From netmod-bounces@ietf.org Mon Jan 5 06:42:35 2009 Return-Path: X-Original-To: netmod-archive@ietf.org Delivered-To: ietfarch-netmod-archive@core3.amsl.com Received: from [127.0.0.1] (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id BD4C13A684E; Mon, 5 Jan 2009 06:42:35 -0800 (PST) X-Original-To: netmod@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: netmod@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9E7A53A684E for ; Mon, 5 Jan 2009 06:42:34 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.178 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.178 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=0.087, BAYES_00=-2.599, IP_NOT_FRIENDLY=0.334] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id XPOPm90kEvU7 for ; Mon, 5 Jan 2009 06:42:33 -0800 (PST) Received: from smtp122.sbc.mail.sp1.yahoo.com (smtp122.sbc.mail.sp1.yahoo.com [69.147.64.95]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with SMTP id A45FB3A688F for ; Mon, 5 Jan 2009 06:42:33 -0800 (PST) Received: (qmail 42258 invoked from network); 5 Jan 2009 14:42:21 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO ?127.0.0.1?) (andy@68.120.68.180 with plain) by smtp122.sbc.mail.sp1.yahoo.com with SMTP; 5 Jan 2009 14:42:19 -0000 X-YMail-OSG: f7KxLqQVM1kMHenxQuQL0gQJTR8rxB.wnjsHwiDuhgimFPRUTmF168eJui7EgpUa1ac6I8AVxXrpgV7vtu6foblZAXWlkFOHTgiU2o9UPBc_tlUUiRJeO.hkmyEnKdZPHq0er5WDpwyj5mr0R7WQ6RNxaSQAT0QUEBx5I6_pGvRFX0URcyiCKh0Zkafdb.AxXonNVMFQaakDrD4RgpXXpg-- X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: ymail-3 Message-ID: <49621C49.8040306@netconfcentral.com> Date: Mon, 05 Jan 2009 06:42:17 -0800 From: Andy Bierman User-Agent: Thunderbird 2.0.0.19 (Windows/20081209) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Martin Bjorklund References: <495FB235.5080303@netconfcentral.com> <20090105.101210.121635898.mbj@tail-f.com> In-Reply-To: <20090105.101210.121635898.mbj@tail-f.com> Cc: netmod@ietf.org Subject: Re: [netmod] canonical order X-BeenThere: netmod@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.9 Precedence: list List-Id: NETMOD WG list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; Format="flowed" Sender: netmod-bounces@ietf.org Errors-To: netmod-bounces@ietf.org Martin Bjorklund wrote: > Andy Bierman wrote: > >> the >> canonical order of a NETMOD database needs to >> be defined in the draft. > > I think there are two simple solutions: > > 1. State that the order that currently is the defined PDU order > instead is the canonical datastore order. > > 2. State that any order in the datastore is implementation > specific. Consequently, XPath functions related to this order > should not be used. > > (note that even the XPath spec states that the order among some > specific nodes are implementation dependent) > So the solution is to ignore my original issue, which is that must-stmt and when-stmt expressions appearing in a standard YANG data model will not evaluate to the same result, for a significant subset of the XPath language. Any 'foo[3]' type of expression (e.g., context order within a predicate) is going to evaluate randomly on every single agent? I fail to see the standards value in this approach. Andy > Related to ordering, the draft currently has this text about how > augmented nodes are encoded: > > When a node is augmented, the augmented child nodes are encoded > after all normal child nodes. If the node is augmented more than > once, the blocks of augmented child nodes are sorted (in > alphanumeric order) according to their namespace URI and name of the > first child node in each block. > > I was thinking this should be removed, but unless we want to do (2) > above, maybe it should stay. > > > /martin > > > > _______________________________________________ netmod mailing list netmod@ietf.org https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/netmod From netmod-bounces@ietf.org Mon Jan 5 07:08:07 2009 Return-Path: X-Original-To: netmod-archive@ietf.org Delivered-To: ietfarch-netmod-archive@core3.amsl.com Received: from [127.0.0.1] (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 04BFA3A67DD; Mon, 5 Jan 2009 07:08:07 -0800 (PST) X-Original-To: netmod@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: netmod@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5971B3A6856 for ; Mon, 5 Jan 2009 07:08:06 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.019 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.019 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=0.027, BAYES_00=-2.599, HELO_MISMATCH_COM=0.553] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id pJF8W6nPcAIr for ; Mon, 5 Jan 2009 07:08:05 -0800 (PST) Received: from mail.tail-f.com (de-0316.d.ipeer.se [213.180.79.212]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8BC213A67DD for ; Mon, 5 Jan 2009 07:08:05 -0800 (PST) Received: from localhost (c213-100-167-236.swipnet.se [213.100.167.236]) by mail.tail-f.com (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id DB74776C51F; Mon, 5 Jan 2009 16:07:51 +0100 (CET) Date: Mon, 05 Jan 2009 16:07:49 +0100 (CET) Message-Id: <20090105.160749.112735746.mbj@tail-f.com> To: andy@netconfcentral.com From: Martin Bjorklund In-Reply-To: <49621C49.8040306@netconfcentral.com> References: <495FB235.5080303@netconfcentral.com> <20090105.101210.121635898.mbj@tail-f.com> <49621C49.8040306@netconfcentral.com> X-Mailer: Mew version 6.0.51 on Emacs 22.2 / Mule 5.0 (SAKAKI) Mime-Version: 1.0 Cc: netmod@ietf.org Subject: Re: [netmod] canonical order X-BeenThere: netmod@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.9 Precedence: list List-Id: NETMOD WG list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: netmod-bounces@ietf.org Errors-To: netmod-bounces@ietf.org Andy Bierman wrote: > So the solution is to ignore my original issue, > which is that must-stmt and when-stmt expressions > appearing in a standard YANG data model will not evaluate > to the same result, for a significant subset of the > XPath language. Any 'foo[3]' type of expression > (e.g., context order within a predicate) is going > to evaluate randomly on every single agent? > > I fail to see the standards value in this approach. Using positional functions will be error prone anyway. You'd have to calculate the offset depending on when expressions, if-feature etc. For example: leaf a { ... } leaf b { when "../a > 10"; } leaf c { ... } The "following-sibling" of "a" is "b" or "c", depending on the value of "a". Why would you use this in "must" or "when" expressions? I do not think that this is "a significant subset" of XPath. I think it's more clear to refer to other nodes by name than by position. Do you have some particular use case in mind where using the name does not work? /martin _______________________________________________ netmod mailing list netmod@ietf.org https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/netmod From netmod-bounces@ietf.org Mon Jan 5 07:12:24 2009 Return-Path: X-Original-To: netmod-archive@ietf.org Delivered-To: ietfarch-netmod-archive@core3.amsl.com Received: from [127.0.0.1] (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id AAC303A6968; Mon, 5 Jan 2009 07:12:24 -0800 (PST) X-Original-To: netmod@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: netmod@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0AA603A69F6 for ; Mon, 5 Jan 2009 07:12:24 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.179 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.179 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=0.086, BAYES_00=-2.599, IP_NOT_FRIENDLY=0.334] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id akREvjtam+PR for ; Mon, 5 Jan 2009 07:12:23 -0800 (PST) Received: from smtp127.sbc.mail.sp1.yahoo.com (smtp127.sbc.mail.sp1.yahoo.com [69.147.65.186]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with SMTP id 3EC4A3A6968 for ; Mon, 5 Jan 2009 07:12:23 -0800 (PST) Received: (qmail 89068 invoked from network); 5 Jan 2009 15:12:09 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO ?127.0.0.1?) (andy@68.120.68.180 with plain) by smtp127.sbc.mail.sp1.yahoo.com with SMTP; 5 Jan 2009 15:12:08 -0000 X-YMail-OSG: CrHrll8VM1kWK3iw0BfxXu3OcNIivlhQBpxjWHUqauz_q08yT1sJE15eVe3iHF.B5vcOfySvXe_qMMPUZPlHnOgFraWzyfZhvZWEI83IAwz6YqVqph4h4XSgjIhuxQ1sPcwrrr_EsIbS9kEo4bw9_PV9h5ZzSnhNbrCizEc2ZLdytwpd_OyZTxYWziA- X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: ymail-3 Message-ID: <49622346.1080407@netconfcentral.com> Date: Mon, 05 Jan 2009 07:12:06 -0800 From: Andy Bierman User-Agent: Thunderbird 2.0.0.19 (Windows/20081209) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Andy Bierman , NETMOD Working Group References: <4951803E.8030009@netconfcentral.com> <20090102185619.GA7845@elstar.local> <495E799B.3020805@netconfcentral.com> <20090105121433.GA6993@elstar.local> In-Reply-To: <20090105121433.GA6993@elstar.local> Subject: Re: [netmod] container netconf X-BeenThere: netmod@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.9 Precedence: list List-Id: NETMOD WG list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; Format="flowed" Sender: netmod-bounces@ietf.org Errors-To: netmod-bounces@ietf.org Juergen Schoenwaelder wrote: > On Fri, Jan 02, 2009 at 12:31:23PM -0800, Andy Bierman wrote: >> I prefer N namespaces, but starting out with an >> augment-able container that gets designated for the category. >> All standard extensions (and vendor if they want) would >> be required to use the most appropriate existing container. > > Which problem does this solve? > Multiple namespaces solves naming collision problems. Maintaining some coherence and predictability across the entire set of managed objects makes the system easier to navigate and understand. Individual WGs (and dev-groups within companies) rarely consider the managed system outside their little piece of it. The result is what we have now with SNMP and CLI. Ad-hoc, almost random data organization. Lots of data silos requiring independent maintenance and application code design. Subtree filtering could be changed so that including a node in the filter automatically means include all its descendants, regardless of namespace (so it works the same as XPath). >> The YANG MIB Doctors should have to approve new standard >> containers, as part of their review process. > > My understanding is that MIB doctors review and provide input to the > AD and the IESG but do not approve anything. > > Back to the subject. Can we make a list of options and list the pros > and cons? Here is a start: > > a) do nothing - modules pick namespaces and roots at random > > pro: no coordination required > con: potentially confusing > > b) related definitions share a single namespace by using submodules > > pro: all related definitions share the same namespace making > filtered retrieval can cross references easier > con: requires coordination and an IANA maintained module > > com: since vendor extensions must use augmentations, there is > organizationally a difference between extensions provided by > the owner of the module (namespace) and extensions provided by > other parties > > c) related definitions in separate modules (namespaces) augment a > common root > > pro: requires no coordination via IANA since everyone is free to > augment anything > con: related definitions exist in different namespaces potentially > complicating filtered retrieval and cross references > > Are there more options or pros and cons? What do operators prefer? is > having all SNMP/NETCONF/you name it definition in one namespace > preferrable over a solution where things are split into N different > namespaces, reflecting the evolution of the definitions over time? > > /js > Andy _______________________________________________ netmod mailing list netmod@ietf.org https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/netmod From netmod-bounces@ietf.org Mon Jan 5 07:19:44 2009 Return-Path: X-Original-To: netmod-archive@ietf.org Delivered-To: ietfarch-netmod-archive@core3.amsl.com Received: from [127.0.0.1] (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3F72B3A682C; Mon, 5 Jan 2009 07:19:44 -0800 (PST) X-Original-To: netmod@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: netmod@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id C37133A6958 for ; Mon, 5 Jan 2009 07:19:42 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.123 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.123 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=0.126, BAYES_00=-2.599, HELO_EQ_DE=0.35] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id kupArF18d3lR for ; Mon, 5 Jan 2009 07:19:42 -0800 (PST) Received: from hermes.jacobs-university.de (hermes.jacobs-university.de [212.201.44.23]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5EFE43A682C for ; Mon, 5 Jan 2009 07:19:41 -0800 (PST) Received: from localhost (demetrius1.jacobs-university.de [212.201.44.46]) by hermes.jacobs-university.de (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4A9C4C0026; Mon, 5 Jan 2009 16:19:28 +0100 (CET) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at jacobs-university.de Received: from hermes.jacobs-university.de ([212.201.44.23]) by localhost (demetrius1.jacobs-university.de [212.201.44.32]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id Qi4o8JDcMPFW; Mon, 5 Jan 2009 16:19:22 +0100 (CET) Received: from elstar.local (elstar.iuhb02.iu-bremen.de [10.50.231.133]) by hermes.jacobs-university.de (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8D223C000D; Mon, 5 Jan 2009 16:19:21 +0100 (CET) Received: by elstar.local (Postfix, from userid 501) id 516348DD9F8; Mon, 5 Jan 2009 16:19:21 +0100 (CET) Date: Mon, 5 Jan 2009 16:19:21 +0100 From: Juergen Schoenwaelder To: Andy Bierman Message-ID: <20090105151921.GA7202@elstar.local> Mail-Followup-To: Andy Bierman , NETMOD Working Group References: <4951803E.8030009@netconfcentral.com> <20090102185619.GA7845@elstar.local> <495E799B.3020805@netconfcentral.com> <20090105121433.GA6993@elstar.local> <49622346.1080407@netconfcentral.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <49622346.1080407@netconfcentral.com> User-Agent: Mutt/1.5.18 (2008-05-17) Cc: NETMOD Working Group Subject: Re: [netmod] container netconf X-BeenThere: netmod@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.9 Precedence: list Reply-To: j.schoenwaelder@jacobs-university.de List-Id: NETMOD WG list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: netmod-bounces@ietf.org Errors-To: netmod-bounces@ietf.org On Mon, Jan 05, 2009 at 07:12:06AM -0800, Andy Bierman wrote: > Individual WGs (and dev-groups within companies) > rarely consider the managed system outside their little > piece of it. The result is what we have now with SNMP and CLI. > Ad-hoc, almost random data organization. Lots of data silos > requiring independent maintenance and application code design. So how is this fixed by having different namespaces for all the various pieces that belong to SNMP / NETCONF / OSPF etc? > Subtree filtering could be changed so that including > a node in the filter automatically means include all > its descendants, regardless of namespace (so it works > the same as XPath). In which version of NETCONF do you want to do this? /js -- Juergen Schoenwaelder Jacobs University Bremen gGmbH Phone: +49 421 200 3587 Campus Ring 1, 28759 Bremen, Germany Fax: +49 421 200 3103 _______________________________________________ netmod mailing list netmod@ietf.org https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/netmod From netmod-bounces@ietf.org Mon Jan 5 07:21:16 2009 Return-Path: X-Original-To: netmod-archive@ietf.org Delivered-To: ietfarch-netmod-archive@core3.amsl.com Received: from [127.0.0.1] (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6187C3A6864; Mon, 5 Jan 2009 07:21:16 -0800 (PST) X-Original-To: netmod@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: netmod@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 455483A6864 for ; Mon, 5 Jan 2009 07:21:15 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.181 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.181 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=0.084, BAYES_00=-2.599, IP_NOT_FRIENDLY=0.334] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id xl7JmbFxhS-c for ; Mon, 5 Jan 2009 07:21:14 -0800 (PST) Received: from smtp116.sbc.mail.sp1.yahoo.com (smtp116.sbc.mail.sp1.yahoo.com [69.147.64.89]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with SMTP id 867943A682C for ; Mon, 5 Jan 2009 07:21:14 -0800 (PST) Received: (qmail 13683 invoked from network); 5 Jan 2009 15:21:01 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO ?127.0.0.1?) (andy@68.120.68.180 with plain) by smtp116.sbc.mail.sp1.yahoo.com with SMTP; 5 Jan 2009 15:21:00 -0000 X-YMail-OSG: ysWdfakVM1lUOYkDiWacfs52ddfZqEYPXEEsgissiQGJ3Xmom0eZxf5y1Kq84MCtL5Np3OO_YQmVnmM7UvAY.4qAfnGvWGVTpBOk8SXbmFh7PN46z1_ef83TssSAl.hlgfNDUQSOJqpY_LmK1OOQE8jxSW7qMCCfSuYx_WqxLTrFgI7X6NBouQIaPgEbVfuwEwkUAFgJ.H7zb8hEwT96XQ-- X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: ymail-3 Message-ID: <49622559.7060309@netconfcentral.com> Date: Mon, 05 Jan 2009 07:20:57 -0800 From: Andy Bierman User-Agent: Thunderbird 2.0.0.19 (Windows/20081209) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Martin Bjorklund References: <495FB235.5080303@netconfcentral.com> <20090105.101210.121635898.mbj@tail-f.com> <49621C49.8040306@netconfcentral.com> <20090105.160749.112735746.mbj@tail-f.com> In-Reply-To: <20090105.160749.112735746.mbj@tail-f.com> Cc: netmod@ietf.org Subject: Re: [netmod] canonical order X-BeenThere: netmod@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.9 Precedence: list List-Id: NETMOD WG list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; Format="flowed" Sender: netmod-bounces@ietf.org Errors-To: netmod-bounces@ietf.org Martin Bjorklund wrote: > Andy Bierman wrote: >> So the solution is to ignore my original issue, >> which is that must-stmt and when-stmt expressions >> appearing in a standard YANG data model will not evaluate >> to the same result, for a significant subset of the >> XPath language. Any 'foo[3]' type of expression >> (e.g., context order within a predicate) is going >> to evaluate randomly on every single agent? >> >> I fail to see the standards value in this approach. > > Using positional functions will be error prone anyway. You'd have to > calculate the offset depending on when expressions, if-feature etc. > For example: > > leaf a { ... } > leaf b { > when "../a > 10"; > } > leaf c { ... } > > The "following-sibling" of "a" is "b" or "c", depending on the value > of "a". Why would you use this in "must" or "when" expressions? > > I do not think that this is "a significant subset" of XPath. I think > it's more clear to refer to other nodes by name than by position. Do > you have some particular use case in mind where using the name does > not work? > Of course there are better ways to write a must-stmt than to use the relative position within an instance document, or use the preceding, preceding-sibling, following, or following-sibling axis. If that is not important, then it needs to be clear in the draft, so people who write XPath expressions can avoid ones for which the YANG standard will produce different results, depending on the implementation. > > /martin > > > Andy _______________________________________________ netmod mailing list netmod@ietf.org https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/netmod From netmod-bounces@ietf.org Mon Jan 5 07:41:50 2009 Return-Path: X-Original-To: netmod-archive@ietf.org Delivered-To: ietfarch-netmod-archive@core3.amsl.com Received: from [127.0.0.1] (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 50FD63A684E; Mon, 5 Jan 2009 07:41:50 -0800 (PST) X-Original-To: netmod@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: netmod@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7256F3A6881 for ; Mon, 5 Jan 2009 07:41:49 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.182 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.182 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=0.083, BAYES_00=-2.599, IP_NOT_FRIENDLY=0.334] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id JvIhaYijncIh for ; Mon, 5 Jan 2009 07:41:48 -0800 (PST) Received: from smtp118.sbc.mail.sp1.yahoo.com (smtp118.sbc.mail.sp1.yahoo.com [69.147.64.91]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with SMTP id BA8553A684E for ; Mon, 5 Jan 2009 07:41:48 -0800 (PST) Received: (qmail 51550 invoked from network); 5 Jan 2009 15:41:36 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO ?127.0.0.1?) (andy@68.120.68.180 with plain) by smtp118.sbc.mail.sp1.yahoo.com with SMTP; 5 Jan 2009 15:41:34 -0000 X-YMail-OSG: 1BAF4eoVM1k7d3p_eYDRusVuRHvhVq1T4CmyxAc6nPfZrC2LKLl1A5FthRh4w.G4JgZX2TKwtL4IB.pq0FPW2.StsFxt9t11qGWb0RmLo01COQ6p7h6Fv0j_bzbTH_8QGFYh2MN8NRY8yVqS6qyZxeei X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: ymail-3 Message-ID: <49622A2C.1050103@netconfcentral.com> Date: Mon, 05 Jan 2009 07:41:32 -0800 From: Andy Bierman User-Agent: Thunderbird 2.0.0.19 (Windows/20081209) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Andy Bierman , NETMOD Working Group References: <4951803E.8030009@netconfcentral.com> <20090102185619.GA7845@elstar.local> <495E799B.3020805@netconfcentral.com> <20090105121433.GA6993@elstar.local> <49622346.1080407@netconfcentral.com> <20090105151921.GA7202@elstar.local> In-Reply-To: <20090105151921.GA7202@elstar.local> Subject: Re: [netmod] container netconf X-BeenThere: netmod@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.9 Precedence: list List-Id: NETMOD WG list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; Format="flowed" Sender: netmod-bounces@ietf.org Errors-To: netmod-bounces@ietf.org Juergen Schoenwaelder wrote: > On Mon, Jan 05, 2009 at 07:12:06AM -0800, Andy Bierman wrote: > >> Individual WGs (and dev-groups within companies) >> rarely consider the managed system outside their little >> piece of it. The result is what we have now with SNMP and CLI. >> Ad-hoc, almost random data organization. Lots of data silos >> requiring independent maintenance and application code design. > > So how is this fixed by having different namespaces for all the > various pieces that belong to SNMP / NETCONF / OSPF etc? > Why are multiple XML namespaces a problem? Each YANG module maps to a (hopefully) globally unique namespace. This removes any need for coordinating selection of identifiers across modules (which is the point of XML Namespaces). Augment is robust instead of fragile, only if different namespaces are used. IMO, standards based submodules are problematic because there is a main module 'include-stmt' that must be added every time a new submodule is added. The main module revision-date needs to be changed every time this happens. Every module importer will need to check if the submodules they care about really changed or not. Maintaining the main module on IANA puts a huge burden on tools which have to deal with this special case, and get the main module from IANA. There are significant standards conformance issues as well if a standard version of a data model is not published in any RFC. Normative reference resolution would get really complicated over time. It effectively removes version control from the main module and moves it to the submodules instead. This has an impact on the 'importer' module that needs a specific version. There is no visibility into submodules A.1 or A.2 when module B is importing module A. >> Subtree filtering could be changed so that including >> a node in the filter automatically means include all >> its descendants, regardless of namespace (so it works >> the same as XPath). > > In which version of NETCONF do you want to do this? > in 1.1 How many implementations deal with subtree filtering of multiple namespaces correctly anyway? I doubt any implementations even have a nested node in a different namespace than its parent yet. > /js > Andy _______________________________________________ netmod mailing list netmod@ietf.org https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/netmod From netmod-bounces@ietf.org Mon Jan 5 08:02:54 2009 Return-Path: X-Original-To: netmod-archive@ietf.org Delivered-To: ietfarch-netmod-archive@core3.amsl.com Received: from [127.0.0.1] (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id CED7C3A6853; Mon, 5 Jan 2009 08:02:54 -0800 (PST) X-Original-To: netmod@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: netmod@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id C96C53A6A3A for ; Mon, 5 Jan 2009 08:02:53 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.02 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.02 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=0.026, BAYES_00=-2.599, HELO_MISMATCH_COM=0.553] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id CsmA9qNn8a7t for ; Mon, 5 Jan 2009 08:02:53 -0800 (PST) Received: from mail.tail-f.com (de-0316.d.ipeer.se [213.180.79.212]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id E6D413A67A5 for ; Mon, 5 Jan 2009 08:02:52 -0800 (PST) Received: from localhost (c213-100-167-236.swipnet.se [213.100.167.236]) by mail.tail-f.com (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id D8B5476C528; Mon, 5 Jan 2009 17:02:39 +0100 (CET) Date: Mon, 05 Jan 2009 17:02:37 +0100 (CET) Message-Id: <20090105.170237.151682393.mbj@tail-f.com> To: andy@netconfcentral.com From: Martin Bjorklund In-Reply-To: <49622A2C.1050103@netconfcentral.com> References: <49622346.1080407@netconfcentral.com> <20090105151921.GA7202@elstar.local> <49622A2C.1050103@netconfcentral.com> X-Mailer: Mew version 6.0.51 on Emacs 22.2 / Mule 5.0 (SAKAKI) Mime-Version: 1.0 Cc: netmod@ietf.org Subject: Re: [netmod] container netconf X-BeenThere: netmod@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.9 Precedence: list List-Id: NETMOD WG list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: netmod-bounces@ietf.org Errors-To: netmod-bounces@ietf.org Andy Bierman wrote: > >> Subtree filtering could be changed so that including > >> a node in the filter automatically means include all > >> its descendants, regardless of namespace (so it works > >> the same as XPath). > > In which version of NETCONF do you want to do this? > > > > in 1.1 > > How many implementations deal with > subtree filtering of multiple namespaces correctly > anyway? I doubt any implementations even have > a nested node in a different namespace than its parent yet. We have nested nodes in different namespaces, but we do not deal with them correctly according to the spec - once a subtree is selected, we print the entire subtree, including any mounted (augmenting) namespaces. Here's another unclear issue: will these filters produce the same result? (assuming some other namespace has augmented /top/system) The unclarity comes from this sentence: A namespace is considered to match (for filter purposes) if the content of the 'xmlns' attributes are the same in the filter and the underlying data model. What does "the content of the 'xmlns' attributes" really mean?? /martin _______________________________________________ netmod mailing list netmod@ietf.org https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/netmod From netmod-bounces@ietf.org Mon Jan 5 08:14:43 2009 Return-Path: X-Original-To: netmod-archive@ietf.org Delivered-To: ietfarch-netmod-archive@core3.amsl.com Received: from [127.0.0.1] (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0D1A23A6853; Mon, 5 Jan 2009 08:14:43 -0800 (PST) X-Original-To: netmod@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: netmod@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9974A3A6853 for ; Mon, 5 Jan 2009 08:14:41 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.183 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.183 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=0.082, BAYES_00=-2.599, IP_NOT_FRIENDLY=0.334] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id J7B3WN+LydHV for ; Mon, 5 Jan 2009 08:14:40 -0800 (PST) Received: from smtp119.sbc.mail.sp1.yahoo.com (smtp119.sbc.mail.sp1.yahoo.com [69.147.64.92]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with SMTP id ECF3F3A6B01 for ; Mon, 5 Jan 2009 08:14:40 -0800 (PST) Received: (qmail 79076 invoked from network); 5 Jan 2009 16:14:28 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO ?127.0.0.1?) (andy@68.120.68.180 with plain) by smtp119.sbc.mail.sp1.yahoo.com with SMTP; 5 Jan 2009 16:14:27 -0000 X-YMail-OSG: wentagEVM1mcA5XHqHRI1yp_yJJYF26e2bVUV24lGmSUNGfTAQBXVT9aPknEUb5c8IjITULCTrKdgQP_qsJE8.QzLduhhNKadhVbapJp9fmAYAv8sU33ahphrJTaMaI4bK.mFXDZhsVffsbZ46.Y.c_7ExsJeWg8_f.fF8A2UoIfQgiWSJ0Nic_D7rSr X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: ymail-3 Message-ID: <496231E0.6020901@netconfcentral.com> Date: Mon, 05 Jan 2009 08:14:24 -0800 From: Andy Bierman User-Agent: Thunderbird 2.0.0.19 (Windows/20081209) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Martin Bjorklund References: <49622346.1080407@netconfcentral.com> <20090105151921.GA7202@elstar.local> <49622A2C.1050103@netconfcentral.com> <20090105.170237.151682393.mbj@tail-f.com> In-Reply-To: <20090105.170237.151682393.mbj@tail-f.com> Cc: netmod@ietf.org Subject: Re: [netmod] container netconf X-BeenThere: netmod@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.9 Precedence: list List-Id: NETMOD WG list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; Format="flowed" Sender: netmod-bounces@ietf.org Errors-To: netmod-bounces@ietf.org Martin Bjorklund wrote: > Andy Bierman wrote: >>>> Subtree filtering could be changed so that including >>>> a node in the filter automatically means include all >>>> its descendants, regardless of namespace (so it works >>>> the same as XPath). >>> In which version of NETCONF do you want to do this? >>> >> in 1.1 >> >> How many implementations deal with >> subtree filtering of multiple namespaces correctly >> anyway? I doubt any implementations even have >> a nested node in a different namespace than its parent yet. > > We have nested nodes in different namespaces, but we do not deal with > them correctly according to the spec - once a subtree is selected, we > print the entire subtree, including any mounted (augmenting) > namespaces. > So then the 1.1 spec can be clarified to specify this behavior, right? This has always been a problem with subtree filtering. > Here's another unclear issue: will these filters produce the same > result? (assuming some other namespace has augmented /top/system) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > The unclarity comes from this sentence: > > A namespace is considered to match (for filter purposes) if the > content of the 'xmlns' attributes are the same in the filter and > the underlying data model. > > What does "the content of the 'xmlns' attributes" really mean?? > (My bad.) It is one of the sentences that needs to be rewritten. The intent is the expanded-name is the same. The actual xmlns directives are irrelevant. > > /martin > > > Andy _______________________________________________ netmod mailing list netmod@ietf.org https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/netmod From netmod-bounces@ietf.org Mon Jan 5 08:15:54 2009 Return-Path: X-Original-To: netmod-archive@ietf.org Delivered-To: ietfarch-netmod-archive@core3.amsl.com Received: from [127.0.0.1] (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1E2B83A6853; Mon, 5 Jan 2009 08:15:54 -0800 (PST) X-Original-To: netmod@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: netmod@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6A2D93A6935 for ; Mon, 5 Jan 2009 08:15:52 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.125 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.125 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=0.124, BAYES_00=-2.599, HELO_EQ_DE=0.35] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id dmMYpL+Niyzl for ; Mon, 5 Jan 2009 08:15:51 -0800 (PST) Received: from hermes.jacobs-university.de (hermes.jacobs-university.de [212.201.44.23]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 257713A6853 for ; Mon, 5 Jan 2009 08:15:51 -0800 (PST) Received: from localhost (demetrius2.jacobs-university.de [212.201.44.47]) by hermes.jacobs-university.de (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3F93AC0033; Mon, 5 Jan 2009 17:15:38 +0100 (CET) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at jacobs-university.de Received: from hermes.jacobs-university.de ([212.201.44.23]) by localhost (demetrius2.jacobs-university.de [212.201.44.32]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id fu3Ctf5CsJr9; Mon, 5 Jan 2009 17:15:32 +0100 (CET) Received: from elstar.local (elstar.iuhb02.iu-bremen.de [10.50.231.133]) by hermes.jacobs-university.de (Postfix) with ESMTP id 984EBC0025; Mon, 5 Jan 2009 17:15:32 +0100 (CET) Received: by elstar.local (Postfix, from userid 501) id 5A92E8DDEC1; Mon, 5 Jan 2009 17:15:32 +0100 (CET) Date: Mon, 5 Jan 2009 17:15:32 +0100 From: Juergen Schoenwaelder To: Andy Bierman Message-ID: <20090105161532.GB7239@elstar.local> Mail-Followup-To: Andy Bierman , NETMOD Working Group References: <4951803E.8030009@netconfcentral.com> <20090102185619.GA7845@elstar.local> <495E799B.3020805@netconfcentral.com> <20090105121433.GA6993@elstar.local> <49622346.1080407@netconfcentral.com> <20090105151921.GA7202@elstar.local> <49622A2C.1050103@netconfcentral.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <49622A2C.1050103@netconfcentral.com> User-Agent: Mutt/1.5.18 (2008-05-17) Cc: NETMOD Working Group Subject: Re: [netmod] container netconf X-BeenThere: netmod@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.9 Precedence: list Reply-To: j.schoenwaelder@jacobs-university.de List-Id: NETMOD WG list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: netmod-bounces@ietf.org Errors-To: netmod-bounces@ietf.org On Mon, Jan 05, 2009 at 07:41:32AM -0800, Andy Bierman wrote: > Why are multiple XML namespaces a problem? > Each YANG module maps to a (hopefully) > globally unique namespace. This removes any need > for coordinating selection of identifiers across > modules (which is the point of XML Namespaces). > Augment is robust instead of fragile, only if different > namespaces are used. Yeah, we all agree. > IMO, standards based submodules are problematic > because there is a main module 'include-stmt' > that must be added every time a new submodule > is added. The main module revision-date needs to be changed > every time this happens. Yes. > Every module importer > will need to check if the submodules they care > about really changed or not. Please elaborate. > Maintaining the main module on IANA > puts a huge burden on tools which have to deal > with this special case, and get the main module from IANA. That has been true for IANA maintained MIB modules as well. > There are significant standards conformance issues > as well if a standard version of a data model > is not published in any RFC. Normative reference > resolution would get really complicated over time. I am not sure I follow. Please elaborate. > It effectively removes version control from the main module > and moves it to the submodules instead. This has > an impact on the 'importer' module that needs > a specific version. There is no visibility into > submodules A.1 or A.2 when module B is importing module A. Isn't B important a certain revision of A? And do the YANG rules not make it clear what revision A stands for? I am wondering whether I should ask the nasty question: if submodules don't work, why do we have them in YANG? Or what needs to be changed to make them work? /js -- Juergen Schoenwaelder Jacobs University Bremen gGmbH Phone: +49 421 200 3587 Campus Ring 1, 28759 Bremen, Germany Fax: +49 421 200 3103 _______________________________________________ netmod mailing list netmod@ietf.org https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/netmod From netmod-bounces@ietf.org Mon Jan 5 08:24:45 2009 Return-Path: X-Original-To: netmod-archive@ietf.org Delivered-To: ietfarch-netmod-archive@core3.amsl.com Received: from [127.0.0.1] (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id B86A63A63D2; Mon, 5 Jan 2009 08:24:45 -0800 (PST) X-Original-To: netmod@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: netmod@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 93C423A6849 for ; Mon, 5 Jan 2009 08:24:44 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.02 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.02 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=0.026, BAYES_00=-2.599, HELO_MISMATCH_COM=0.553] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id JD2DaDWo8OCx for ; Mon, 5 Jan 2009 08:24:43 -0800 (PST) Received: from mail.tail-f.com (de-0316.d.ipeer.se [213.180.79.212]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id AE1803A63D2 for ; Mon, 5 Jan 2009 08:24:43 -0800 (PST) Received: from localhost (c213-100-167-236.swipnet.se [213.100.167.236]) by mail.tail-f.com (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 16E9E76C51F; Mon, 5 Jan 2009 17:24:30 +0100 (CET) Date: Mon, 05 Jan 2009 17:24:28 +0100 (CET) Message-Id: <20090105.172428.56990757.mbj@tail-f.com> To: andy@netconfcentral.com From: Martin Bjorklund In-Reply-To: <496231E0.6020901@netconfcentral.com> References: <49622A2C.1050103@netconfcentral.com> <20090105.170237.151682393.mbj@tail-f.com> <496231E0.6020901@netconfcentral.com> X-Mailer: Mew version 6.0.51 on Emacs 22.2 / Mule 5.0 (SAKAKI) Mime-Version: 1.0 Cc: netmod@ietf.org Subject: Re: [netmod] container netconf X-BeenThere: netmod@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.9 Precedence: list List-Id: NETMOD WG list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: netmod-bounces@ietf.org Errors-To: netmod-bounces@ietf.org Andy Bierman wrote: > Martin Bjorklund wrote: > > Andy Bierman wrote: > >>>> Subtree filtering could be changed so that including > >>>> a node in the filter automatically means include all > >>>> its descendants, regardless of namespace (so it works > >>>> the same as XPath). > >>> In which version of NETCONF do you want to do this? > >>> > >> in 1.1 > >> > >> How many implementations deal with > >> subtree filtering of multiple namespaces correctly > >> anyway? I doubt any implementations even have > >> a nested node in a different namespace than its parent yet. > > We have nested nodes in different namespaces, but we do not deal with > > them correctly according to the spec - once a subtree is selected, we > > print the entire subtree, including any mounted (augmenting) > > namespaces. > > > > So then the 1.1 spec can be clarified to specify > this behavior, right? This has always been a > problem with subtree filtering. So far, I don't think we have any other change that would require us to bump the base version to 1.1. The only version change I recall is for the :validate capability. Do we really want to bump the base version for this? > > The unclarity comes from this sentence: > > A namespace is considered to match (for filter purposes) if the > > content of the 'xmlns' attributes are the same in the filter and > > the underlying data model. > It is one of the sentences that needs to be rewritten. > The intent is the expanded-name is the same. The > actual xmlns directives are irrelevant. Ok. /martin _______________________________________________ netmod mailing list netmod@ietf.org https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/netmod From netmod-bounces@ietf.org Mon Jan 5 08:43:12 2009 Return-Path: X-Original-To: netmod-archive@ietf.org Delivered-To: ietfarch-netmod-archive@core3.amsl.com Received: from [127.0.0.1] (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 07F953A63D2; Mon, 5 Jan 2009 08:43:12 -0800 (PST) X-Original-To: netmod@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: netmod@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 343C43A68F7 for ; Mon, 5 Jan 2009 08:43:10 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.184 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.184 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=0.081, BAYES_00=-2.599, IP_NOT_FRIENDLY=0.334] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id HsFfk30RjHzL for ; Mon, 5 Jan 2009 08:43:09 -0800 (PST) Received: from smtp122.sbc.mail.sp1.yahoo.com (smtp122.sbc.mail.sp1.yahoo.com [69.147.64.95]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with SMTP id 22B783A63D2 for ; Mon, 5 Jan 2009 08:43:09 -0800 (PST) Received: (qmail 78808 invoked from network); 5 Jan 2009 16:42:56 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO ?127.0.0.1?) (andy@68.120.68.180 with plain) by smtp122.sbc.mail.sp1.yahoo.com with SMTP; 5 Jan 2009 16:42:55 -0000 X-YMail-OSG: xjdMAZ0VM1lcMnLScG.3IxhozHf0oKSEA1Cu_sOhB95Kl2HM3z8cr8iZTleUFf2IFlP1LVjnM97Nw9q7BOJsN2vTTfq6CgvymoTWPzd8iFXrqbbjZ2B9hUv8p_yBg.ytIyBBMHFUx4gJjQlF4ugk.W8k X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: ymail-3 Message-ID: <4962388D.50109@netconfcentral.com> Date: Mon, 05 Jan 2009 08:42:53 -0800 From: Andy Bierman User-Agent: Thunderbird 2.0.0.19 (Windows/20081209) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Andy Bierman , NETMOD Working Group References: <4951803E.8030009@netconfcentral.com> <20090102185619.GA7845@elstar.local> <495E799B.3020805@netconfcentral.com> <20090105121433.GA6993@elstar.local> <49622346.1080407@netconfcentral.com> <20090105151921.GA7202@elstar.local> <49622A2C.1050103@netconfcentral.com> <20090105161532.GB7239@elstar.local> In-Reply-To: <20090105161532.GB7239@elstar.local> Subject: Re: [netmod] container netconf X-BeenThere: netmod@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.9 Precedence: list List-Id: NETMOD WG list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; Format="flowed" Sender: netmod-bounces@ietf.org Errors-To: netmod-bounces@ietf.org Juergen Schoenwaelder wrote: > On Mon, Jan 05, 2009 at 07:41:32AM -0800, Andy Bierman wrote: > >> Why are multiple XML namespaces a problem? >> Each YANG module maps to a (hopefully) >> globally unique namespace. This removes any need >> for coordinating selection of identifiers across >> modules (which is the point of XML Namespaces). >> Augment is robust instead of fragile, only if different >> namespaces are used. > > Yeah, we all agree. > >> IMO, standards based submodules are problematic >> because there is a main module 'include-stmt' >> that must be added every time a new submodule >> is added. The main module revision-date needs to be changed >> every time this happens. > > Yes. > >> Every module importer >> will need to check if the submodules they care >> about really changed or not. > > Please elaborate. > If the main module is like this example: module foo { namespace "blah"; prefix foo; include foo-root { version 2008-01-17; } include abc { version 2008-01-05; } include def { version 2008-04-25; } include hij { version 2008-11-12; } // ... more submodule includes include xyz { version 2009-01-05; } revision 2009-01-05 { description "updated xyz submodule"; } // 27 more revision statements } Every time the main module is republished, the revision date will be changed. Even though the importer will technically be safe: module bar { namespace "bar-blah"; prefix bar; import foo { version 2008-04-25; } revision 2008-11-05 { description "initial version"; } //... } The implementer of 'bar' may eventually want to check what changed in the 'foo' module. If the 'bar' module really only uses the 'def' sub-module from 'foo', then the foo module revision date is not the relevant trigger, the 'def' submodule revision date is the trigger. Since the revision clause is optional in the import or include, a change to 'def' may not be apparent to the 'bar' module implementer at all. >> Maintaining the main module on IANA >> puts a huge burden on tools which have to deal >> with this special case, and get the main module from IANA. > > That has been true for IANA maintained MIB modules as well. > >> There are significant standards conformance issues >> as well if a standard version of a data model >> is not published in any RFC. Normative reference >> resolution would get really complicated over time. > > I am not sure I follow. Please elaborate. > >> It effectively removes version control from the main module >> and moves it to the submodules instead. This has >> an impact on the 'importer' module that needs >> a specific version. There is no visibility into >> submodules A.1 or A.2 when module B is importing module A. > > Isn't B important a certain revision of A? And do the YANG > rules not make it clear what revision A stands for? > > I am wondering whether I should ask the nasty question: if submodules > don't work, why do we have them in YANG? Or what needs to be changed > to make them work? I don't think the IETF should use them. It's like "this amp go to 11." Why not rename submodule to be module, if that's how they are going to be used? They add complexity (like top-level augments into the same namespace, supposedly only needed to augment across modules). Some people really like them so I don't care if vendors use them, but the IETF should not. NETCONF is already defining a different namespace for every little thing that gets added. Dealing with 7 namespaces in the PDU instead of 3 or 4 is not a big deal. > > /js > Andy _______________________________________________ netmod mailing list netmod@ietf.org https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/netmod From netmod-bounces@ietf.org Mon Jan 5 11:29:29 2009 Return-Path: X-Original-To: netmod-archive@ietf.org Delivered-To: ietfarch-netmod-archive@core3.amsl.com Received: from [127.0.0.1] (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 501163A68E1; Mon, 5 Jan 2009 11:29:29 -0800 (PST) X-Original-To: netmod@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: netmod@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 373E43A6972 for ; Mon, 5 Jan 2009 11:29:28 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.186 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.186 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=0.079, BAYES_00=-2.599, IP_NOT_FRIENDLY=0.334] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id ZfvWMxnBj2Yd for ; Mon, 5 Jan 2009 11:29:27 -0800 (PST) Received: from smtp115.sbc.mail.sp1.yahoo.com (smtp115.sbc.mail.sp1.yahoo.com [69.147.64.88]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with SMTP id 921323A68E1 for ; Mon, 5 Jan 2009 11:29:27 -0800 (PST) Received: (qmail 26725 invoked from network); 5 Jan 2009 19:29:14 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO ?127.0.0.1?) (andy@68.120.68.180 with plain) by smtp115.sbc.mail.sp1.yahoo.com with SMTP; 5 Jan 2009 19:29:12 -0000 X-YMail-OSG: ggWnAgUVM1nJSF_tPtg_DHcmgqEPnFQJj56RkwQ45H9TaPvuk5kcykUxkZM_Fog2AXl4CxKN85IaEQpnUTvDnN3tKHYvvQoigL.cqbmcsTdXY.Rs9iF97Qfg3zj7mrJ5aKWtbNSD0A_RpQ3RMkUnohMvswfIdrpOKvwvIAkHfHR6FfI5U48rBKvXxyu9u1gcCZ.Hg64hxC7W6oHh.Wdcqw-- X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: ymail-3 Message-ID: <49625F86.2030800@netconfcentral.com> Date: Mon, 05 Jan 2009 11:29:10 -0800 From: Andy Bierman User-Agent: Thunderbird 2.0.0.19 (Windows/20081209) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Martin Bjorklund References: <495FB235.5080303@netconfcentral.com> <20090105.101210.121635898.mbj@tail-f.com> In-Reply-To: <20090105.101210.121635898.mbj@tail-f.com> Cc: netmod@ietf.org Subject: Re: [netmod] canonical order X-BeenThere: netmod@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.9 Precedence: list List-Id: NETMOD WG list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; Format="flowed" Sender: netmod-bounces@ietf.org Errors-To: netmod-bounces@ietf.org Martin Bjorklund wrote: > Andy Bierman wrote: > >> the >> canonical order of a NETMOD database needs to >> be defined in the draft. > > I think there are two simple solutions: > > 1. State that the order that currently is the defined PDU order > instead is the canonical datastore order. > > 2. State that any order in the datastore is implementation > specific. Consequently, XPath functions related to this order > should not be used. > > (note that even the XPath spec states that the order among some > specific nodes are implementation dependent) > Option 3: State that any order in the datastore is implementation-specific, however, an agent MUST NOT change the order of any nodes, such that, if an application retrieves the entire datastore at time T0, and an XPath expression is evaluated at time T1: - if no changes occurred between T0 and T1, then the document order in the retrieved datastore PDU MUST be valid. - if any changes did occur between T0 and T1, then the retrieved document order may no longer be valid. In either case, position-dependent expressions SHOULD NOT be used. What about leaf-lists and lists without keys? They are intrinsically indexed by their position in XML, regardless of what YANG does. use-case: container multi-dns-options { when "/acme:dns/acme:server[2]"; description "Used when more than one DNS server is configured on this host."; //... } > Related to ordering, the draft currently has this text about how > augmented nodes are encoded: > > When a node is augmented, the augmented child nodes are encoded > after all normal child nodes. If the node is augmented more than > once, the blocks of augmented child nodes are sorted (in > alphanumeric order) according to their namespace URI and name of the > first child node in each block. > > I was thinking this should be removed, but unless we want to do (2) > above, maybe it should stay. > > > /martin > > > > Andy _______________________________________________ netmod mailing list netmod@ietf.org https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/netmod From netmod-bounces@ietf.org Mon Jan 5 11:37:11 2009 Return-Path: X-Original-To: netmod-archive@ietf.org Delivered-To: ietfarch-netmod-archive@core3.amsl.com Received: from [127.0.0.1] (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id CD0853A68E1; Mon, 5 Jan 2009 11:37:11 -0800 (PST) X-Original-To: netmod@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: netmod@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id AB5103A690E for ; Mon, 5 Jan 2009 11:37:10 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -6.599 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-6.599 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-2.599, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-4] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id yskKv1+X6QUm for ; Mon, 5 Jan 2009 11:37:10 -0800 (PST) Received: from exprod7og115.obsmtp.com (exprod7ob115.obsmtp.com [64.18.2.216]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1F43F3A68E1 for ; Mon, 5 Jan 2009 11:37:09 -0800 (PST) Received: from source ([66.129.224.36]) (using TLSv1) by exprod7ob115.postini.com ([64.18.6.12]) with SMTP ID DSNKSWJhVZwMWK2jm6PUDDFu6KtZxjXx4i1a@postini.com; Mon, 05 Jan 2009 11:36:57 PST Received: from p-emfe01-sac.jnpr.net (66.129.254.72) by P-EMHUB01-HQ.jnpr.net (172.24.192.35) with Microsoft SMTP Server id 8.1.336.0; Mon, 5 Jan 2009 11:35:07 -0800 Received: from p-emlb02-sac.jnpr.net ([66.129.254.47]) by p-emfe01-sac.jnpr.net with Microsoft SMTPSVC(6.0.3790.3959); Mon, 5 Jan 2009 11:35:06 -0800 Received: from emailsmtp56.jnpr.net ([172.24.60.77]) by p-emlb02-sac.jnpr.net with Microsoft SMTPSVC(6.0.3790.3959); Mon, 5 Jan 2009 11:35:06 -0800 Received: from magenta.juniper.net ([172.17.27.123]) by emailsmtp56.jnpr.net with Microsoft SMTPSVC(6.0.3790.3959); Mon, 5 Jan 2009 11:35:05 -0800 Received: from idle.juniper.net (idleski.juniper.net [172.25.4.26]) by magenta.juniper.net (8.11.3/8.11.3) with ESMTP id n05JZ4M23708; Mon, 5 Jan 2009 11:35:04 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from phil@juniper.net) Received: from idle.juniper.net (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by idle.juniper.net (8.13.8/8.13.8) with ESMTP id n05JTIJl040890; Mon, 5 Jan 2009 19:29:18 GMT (envelope-from phil@idle.juniper.net) Message-ID: <200901051929.n05JTIJl040890@idle.juniper.net> To: Andy Bierman In-Reply-To: <49625F86.2030800@netconfcentral.com> Date: Mon, 5 Jan 2009 14:29:18 -0500 From: Phil Shafer X-OriginalArrivalTime: 05 Jan 2009 19:35:05.0766 (UTC) FILETIME=[B6045C60:01C96F6C] MIME-Version: 1.0 Cc: netmod@ietf.org Subject: Re: [netmod] canonical order X-BeenThere: netmod@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.9 Precedence: list List-Id: NETMOD WG list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: netmod-bounces@ietf.org Errors-To: netmod-bounces@ietf.org Andy Bierman writes: > container multi-dns-options { > when "/acme:dns/acme:server[2]"; This is more directly expressed as: when "count(/acme:dns/acme:server) >= 2"; Thanks, Phil _______________________________________________ netmod mailing list netmod@ietf.org https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/netmod From netmod-bounces@ietf.org Mon Jan 5 12:24:56 2009 Return-Path: X-Original-To: netmod-archive@ietf.org Delivered-To: ietfarch-netmod-archive@core3.amsl.com Received: from [127.0.0.1] (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3647E28C132; Mon, 5 Jan 2009 12:24:56 -0800 (PST) X-Original-To: netmod@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: netmod@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id B8EF928C12D for ; Mon, 5 Jan 2009 12:24:54 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.187 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.187 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=0.078, BAYES_00=-2.599, IP_NOT_FRIENDLY=0.334] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id L6nEAnJCfKYS for ; Mon, 5 Jan 2009 12:24:54 -0800 (PST) Received: from smtp117.sbc.mail.sp1.yahoo.com (smtp117.sbc.mail.sp1.yahoo.com [69.147.64.90]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with SMTP id 0FE6C28C138 for ; Mon, 5 Jan 2009 12:24:54 -0800 (PST) Received: (qmail 88525 invoked from network); 5 Jan 2009 20:24:40 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO ?127.0.0.1?) (andy@68.120.68.180 with plain) by smtp117.sbc.mail.sp1.yahoo.com with SMTP; 5 Jan 2009 20:24:38 -0000 X-YMail-OSG: hkJz2zMVM1kmJGAmVx5BvyXU1Dfy_PiyM1LV4Jo7zFsGxdEw53qsWj6MmwPvhD2ho2MTsMvtLywTZZt7qY9UhXmRozTghFA.y0vJ_VwO3uWyMrJt7VwcJRG1kbeDH2H_rn9Iin0CESXBpJTqCCM2DzKP X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: ymail-3 Message-ID: <49626C84.4080804@netconfcentral.com> Date: Mon, 05 Jan 2009 12:24:36 -0800 From: Andy Bierman User-Agent: Thunderbird 2.0.0.19 (Windows/20081209) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Phil Shafer References: <200901051929.n05JTIJl040890@idle.juniper.net> In-Reply-To: <200901051929.n05JTIJl040890@idle.juniper.net> Cc: netmod@ietf.org Subject: Re: [netmod] canonical order X-BeenThere: netmod@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.9 Precedence: list List-Id: NETMOD WG list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; Format="flowed" Sender: netmod-bounces@ietf.org Errors-To: netmod-bounces@ietf.org Phil Shafer wrote: > Andy Bierman writes: >> container multi-dns-options { >> when "/acme:dns/acme:server[2]"; > > This is more directly expressed as: > > when "count(/acme:dns/acme:server) >= 2"; > That really isn't the point. If both of these expressions do not yield the same result on the same datastore, then the XPath implementation is broken. Both are valid XPath. > Thanks, > Phil > Andy _______________________________________________ netmod mailing list netmod@ietf.org https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/netmod From netmod-bounces@ietf.org Mon Jan 5 13:23:09 2009 Return-Path: X-Original-To: netmod-archive@ietf.org Delivered-To: ietfarch-netmod-archive@core3.amsl.com Received: from [127.0.0.1] (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5DA133A6866; Mon, 5 Jan 2009 13:23:09 -0800 (PST) X-Original-To: netmod@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: netmod@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id DB4463A6866 for ; Mon, 5 Jan 2009 13:23:07 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -6.599 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-6.599 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-2.599, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-4] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id RP+txdTh38aN for ; Mon, 5 Jan 2009 13:23:07 -0800 (PST) Received: from exprod7og109.obsmtp.com (exprod7og109.obsmtp.com [64.18.2.171]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 32FF13A67EC for ; Mon, 5 Jan 2009 13:23:04 -0800 (PST) Received: from source ([66.129.224.36]) (using TLSv1) by exprod7ob109.postini.com ([64.18.6.12]) with SMTP ID DSNKSWJ6KZuxtnz6GE/sZcUxJmnSC2JFe2u7@postini.com; Mon, 05 Jan 2009 13:22:54 PST Received: from p-emfe01-sac.jnpr.net (66.129.254.72) by P-EMHUB01-HQ.jnpr.net (172.24.192.35) with Microsoft SMTP Server id 8.1.336.0; Mon, 5 Jan 2009 13:20:52 -0800 Received: from p-emlb02-sac.jnpr.net ([66.129.254.47]) by p-emfe01-sac.jnpr.net with Microsoft SMTPSVC(6.0.3790.3959); Mon, 5 Jan 2009 13:20:52 -0800 Received: from emailsmtp56.jnpr.net ([172.24.60.77]) by p-emlb02-sac.jnpr.net with Microsoft SMTPSVC(6.0.3790.3959); Mon, 5 Jan 2009 13:20:52 -0800 Received: from magenta.juniper.net ([172.17.27.123]) by emailsmtp56.jnpr.net with Microsoft SMTPSVC(6.0.3790.3959); Mon, 5 Jan 2009 13:20:51 -0800 Received: from idle.juniper.net (idleski.juniper.net [172.25.4.26]) by magenta.juniper.net (8.11.3/8.11.3) with ESMTP id n05LKoM77100; Mon, 5 Jan 2009 13:20:50 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from phil@juniper.net) Received: from idle.juniper.net (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by idle.juniper.net (8.13.8/8.13.8) with ESMTP id n05LF4CV042054; Mon, 5 Jan 2009 21:15:04 GMT (envelope-from phil@idle.juniper.net) Message-ID: <200901052115.n05LF4CV042054@idle.juniper.net> To: Andy Bierman In-Reply-To: <49626C84.4080804@netconfcentral.com> Date: Mon, 5 Jan 2009 16:15:03 -0500 From: Phil Shafer X-OriginalArrivalTime: 05 Jan 2009 21:20:51.0822 (UTC) FILETIME=[7C8FA8E0:01C96F7B] MIME-Version: 1.0 Cc: netmod@ietf.org Subject: Re: [netmod] canonical order X-BeenThere: netmod@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.9 Precedence: list List-Id: NETMOD WG list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: netmod-bounces@ietf.org Errors-To: netmod-bounces@ietf.org Andy Bierman writes: >If both of these expressions do not yield the >same result on the same datastore, then the >XPath implementation is broken. Both are valid XPath. Sorry, too terse. I was giving an alternative for your use case which doesn't use positioning. We should declare positioning as implementation dependent and move on. Thanks, Phil _______________________________________________ netmod mailing list netmod@ietf.org https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/netmod From netmod-bounces@ietf.org Tue Jan 6 03:48:29 2009 Return-Path: X-Original-To: netmod-archive@ietf.org Delivered-To: ietfarch-netmod-archive@core3.amsl.com Received: from [127.0.0.1] (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 944A13A67FC; Tue, 6 Jan 2009 03:48:29 -0800 (PST) X-Original-To: netmod@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: netmod@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8B7F23A6867 for ; Tue, 6 Jan 2009 03:48:28 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.021 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.021 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=0.025, BAYES_00=-2.599, HELO_MISMATCH_COM=0.553] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id ra4MH1bXf-E3 for ; Tue, 6 Jan 2009 03:48:28 -0800 (PST) Received: from mail.tail-f.com (de-0316.d.ipeer.se [213.180.79.212]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id CE74F3A67FC for ; Tue, 6 Jan 2009 03:48:27 -0800 (PST) Received: from localhost (c213-100-167-236.swipnet.se [213.100.167.236]) by mail.tail-f.com (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 1EE4776C389; Tue, 6 Jan 2009 12:48:13 +0100 (CET) Date: Tue, 06 Jan 2009 12:48:12 +0100 (CET) Message-Id: <20090106.124812.41822237.mbj@tail-f.com> To: andy@netconfcentral.com From: Martin Bjorklund In-Reply-To: <49625F86.2030800@netconfcentral.com> References: <495FB235.5080303@netconfcentral.com> <20090105.101210.121635898.mbj@tail-f.com> <49625F86.2030800@netconfcentral.com> X-Mailer: Mew version 6.0.51 on Emacs 22.2 / Mule 5.0 (SAKAKI) Mime-Version: 1.0 Cc: netmod@ietf.org Subject: Re: [netmod] canonical order X-BeenThere: netmod@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.9 Precedence: list List-Id: NETMOD WG list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: netmod-bounces@ietf.org Errors-To: netmod-bounces@ietf.org Andy Bierman wrote: > use-case: > > container multi-dns-options { > when "/acme:dns/acme:server[2]"; > > description > "Used when more than one DNS server is configured > on this host."; > > //... > } But this expression evaluates to the same (boolean) on different agents even if the order is different. /martin _______________________________________________ netmod mailing list netmod@ietf.org https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/netmod From netmod-bounces@ietf.org Tue Jan 6 05:11:22 2009 Return-Path: X-Original-To: netmod-archive@ietf.org Delivered-To: ietfarch-netmod-archive@core3.amsl.com Received: from [127.0.0.1] (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 943DE3A6832; Tue, 6 Jan 2009 05:11:22 -0800 (PST) X-Original-To: netmod@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: netmod@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 576293A6832 for ; Tue, 6 Jan 2009 05:11:21 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.188 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.188 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=0.077, BAYES_00=-2.599, IP_NOT_FRIENDLY=0.334] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id RIYoPL2tiQg7 for ; Tue, 6 Jan 2009 05:11:20 -0800 (PST) Received: from smtp120.sbc.mail.sp1.yahoo.com (smtp120.sbc.mail.sp1.yahoo.com [69.147.64.93]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with SMTP id 9FC5A3A6783 for ; Tue, 6 Jan 2009 05:11:20 -0800 (PST) Received: (qmail 22531 invoked from network); 6 Jan 2009 13:11:07 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO ?127.0.0.1?) (andy@68.120.68.180 with plain) by smtp120.sbc.mail.sp1.yahoo.com with SMTP; 6 Jan 2009 13:11:04 -0000 X-YMail-OSG: B6C0KRAVM1nASavPvpCUySsICDT7wGdIf40c1dtI6sqQg6UjA8a__Tg06q4CCEU4CcerMDVn8v5pz8.34A8MJg_fjliRmUVrD8PKHOi7CJLgytz1Dlg3UbMrRlfuKodWdAk7n_LcSAtQratz0ExJFjMlFXmx6smvJ3iLBGnBnPNEITjgeXEnJwFJ0TLDvnsCcfFTS90lfR3fzI_pEFFEWw-- X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: ymail-3 Message-ID: <49635866.7080703@netconfcentral.com> Date: Tue, 06 Jan 2009 05:11:02 -0800 From: Andy Bierman User-Agent: Thunderbird 2.0.0.19 (Windows/20081209) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Martin Bjorklund References: <495FB235.5080303@netconfcentral.com> <20090105.101210.121635898.mbj@tail-f.com> <49625F86.2030800@netconfcentral.com> <20090106.124812.41822237.mbj@tail-f.com> In-Reply-To: <20090106.124812.41822237.mbj@tail-f.com> Cc: netmod@ietf.org Subject: Re: [netmod] canonical order X-BeenThere: netmod@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.9 Precedence: list List-Id: NETMOD WG list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; Format="flowed" Sender: netmod-bounces@ietf.org Errors-To: netmod-bounces@ietf.org Martin Bjorklund wrote: > Andy Bierman wrote: >> use-case: >> >> container multi-dns-options { >> when "/acme:dns/acme:server[2]"; >> >> description >> "Used when more than one DNS server is configured >> on this host."; >> >> //... >> } > > But this expression evaluates to the same (boolean) on different > agents even if the order is different. > This expression would work fine, just like count(foo). It's like C shorthand (!foo) or (foo != NULL). It will be true if there are two or more entries. If YANG is going to change this part of XPath, then it needs to go in with the other changes to XPath 1.0 that YANG mandates. According to XPath, 2 identical XML instance documents have the same forward or reverse order. It doesn't say the order is arbitrarily different on every implementation. > > /martin > > > Andy _______________________________________________ netmod mailing list netmod@ietf.org https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/netmod From netmod-bounces@ietf.org Tue Jan 6 05:40:34 2009 Return-Path: X-Original-To: netmod-archive@ietf.org Delivered-To: ietfarch-netmod-archive@core3.amsl.com Received: from [127.0.0.1] (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 397953A6768; Tue, 6 Jan 2009 05:40:34 -0800 (PST) X-Original-To: netmod@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: netmod@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id AEAB63A6985 for ; Tue, 6 Jan 2009 05:40:33 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.127 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.127 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=0.122, BAYES_00=-2.599, HELO_EQ_DE=0.35] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id vMgvy297PARS for ; Tue, 6 Jan 2009 05:40:32 -0800 (PST) Received: from hermes.jacobs-university.de (hermes.jacobs-university.de [212.201.44.23]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 54C3D3A6768 for ; Tue, 6 Jan 2009 05:40:32 -0800 (PST) Received: from localhost (demetrius1.jacobs-university.de [212.201.44.46]) by hermes.jacobs-university.de (Postfix) with ESMTP id D8B9CC005F; Tue, 6 Jan 2009 14:40:18 +0100 (CET) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at jacobs-university.de Received: from hermes.jacobs-university.de ([212.201.44.23]) by localhost (demetrius1.jacobs-university.de [212.201.44.32]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id HjncZZAV9mza; Tue, 6 Jan 2009 14:40:13 +0100 (CET) Received: from elstar.local (elstar.iuhb02.iu-bremen.de [10.50.231.133]) by hermes.jacobs-university.de (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1151EC002C; Tue, 6 Jan 2009 14:40:13 +0100 (CET) Received: by elstar.local (Postfix, from userid 501) id ABE8F8DEDCE; Tue, 6 Jan 2009 14:40:12 +0100 (CET) Date: Tue, 6 Jan 2009 14:40:12 +0100 From: Juergen Schoenwaelder To: Andy Bierman Message-ID: <20090106134012.GA9001@elstar.local> Mail-Followup-To: Andy Bierman , NETMOD Working Group References: <4951803E.8030009@netconfcentral.com> <20090102185619.GA7845@elstar.local> <495E799B.3020805@netconfcentral.com> <20090105121433.GA6993@elstar.local> <49622346.1080407@netconfcentral.com> <20090105151921.GA7202@elstar.local> <49622A2C.1050103@netconfcentral.com> <20090105161532.GB7239@elstar.local> <4962388D.50109@netconfcentral.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <4962388D.50109@netconfcentral.com> User-Agent: Mutt/1.5.18 (2008-05-17) Cc: NETMOD Working Group Subject: Re: [netmod] container netconf X-BeenThere: netmod@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.9 Precedence: list Reply-To: j.schoenwaelder@jacobs-university.de List-Id: NETMOD WG list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: netmod-bounces@ietf.org Errors-To: netmod-bounces@ietf.org On Mon, Jan 05, 2009 at 08:42:53AM -0800, Andy Bierman wrote: > If the main module is like this example: > > module foo { > namespace "blah"; > prefix foo; > > include foo-root { version 2008-01-17; } > include abc { version 2008-01-05; } > include def { version 2008-04-25; } > include hij { version 2008-11-12; } > // ... more submodule includes > include xyz { version 2009-01-05; } > > revision 2009-01-05 { > description "updated xyz submodule"; > } > // 27 more revision statements > > } > > Every time the main module is republished, the revision > date will be changed. > > Even though the importer will technically be safe: > > module bar { > namespace "bar-blah"; > prefix bar; > > import foo { version 2008-04-25; } > > revision 2008-11-05 { > description "initial version"; > } > //... > } > > The implementer of 'bar' may eventually want to check > what changed in the 'foo' module. If the 'bar' module > really only uses the 'def' sub-module from 'foo', > then the foo module revision date is not the relevant > trigger, the 'def' submodule revision date is the trigger. > Since the revision clause is optional in the import > or include, a change to 'def' may not be apparent to > the 'bar' module implementer at all. But this is then a question of what a good "size" of a module is and it is pretty much independent of using submodules or not. Even in SNMP land, if I import BridgeId for BRIDGE-MIB and the module gets revised, I have to find out by reading the module or using tools such as smidiff whether I am affected or not. And in your example, the module revision statement says > revision 2009-01-05 { > description "updated xyz submodule"; > } so it is rather clear what changed. > I don't think the IETF should use them. > It's like "this amp go to 11." > Why not rename submodule to be module, > if that's how they are going to be used? > > They add complexity (like top-level augments > into the same namespace, supposedly only needed > to augment across modules). Some people really > like them so I don't care if vendors use them, > but the IETF should not. > > NETCONF is already defining a different namespace > for every little thing that gets added. Dealing > with 7 namespaces in the PDU instead of 3 or 4 is not a > big deal. I don't care about the PDU - I care about the perspective from an operator. As you know, the IETF process causes us to sometimes break strongly related things into rather strange pieces. See for example the IF-MIB and the IF-INVERTED-STACK-MIB. Or take the modular approach taken to define management interfaces for SNMP itself. Or take the NETCONF stuff where we start walking before we learn how to walk well. As an operator scripting stuff, I prefer having everything related to a particular protocol or service in one or very few logically well organized namespaces (a standard one plus a vendor specific extension one). Perhaps the question is whether we simplify for the operator, the implementor, or the IETF processes. I have my preference... /js -- Juergen Schoenwaelder Jacobs University Bremen gGmbH Phone: +49 421 200 3587 Campus Ring 1, 28759 Bremen, Germany Fax: +49 421 200 3103 _______________________________________________ netmod mailing list netmod@ietf.org https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/netmod From netmod-bounces@ietf.org Tue Jan 6 07:22:47 2009 Return-Path: X-Original-To: netmod-archive@ietf.org Delivered-To: ietfarch-netmod-archive@core3.amsl.com Received: from [127.0.0.1] (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5BB3D3A687D; Tue, 6 Jan 2009 07:22:47 -0800 (PST) X-Original-To: netmod@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: netmod@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8D3593A68F2 for ; Tue, 6 Jan 2009 07:22:46 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.189 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.189 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=0.076, BAYES_00=-2.599, IP_NOT_FRIENDLY=0.334] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id opu5wgrUKi3s for ; Tue, 6 Jan 2009 07:22:45 -0800 (PST) Received: from smtp118.sbc.mail.sp1.yahoo.com (smtp118.sbc.mail.sp1.yahoo.com [69.147.64.91]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with SMTP id B105A3A687D for ; Tue, 6 Jan 2009 07:22:45 -0800 (PST) Received: (qmail 63723 invoked from network); 6 Jan 2009 15:22:33 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO ?127.0.0.1?) (andy@68.120.68.180 with plain) by smtp118.sbc.mail.sp1.yahoo.com with SMTP; 6 Jan 2009 15:22:31 -0000 X-YMail-OSG: Ad3zZ5MVM1kkynVvy2dkKy.t7GCRQ_Cz6GAemYndD9risvoji32R2f91DU4gFB.nDwYNiLZsedRIY4pizB0ry_btmSh5CfRAXr24XotegXzN82c4UgHT09Kll7yTzR7LI0QlSGVtfbOP7E2s5YV6tpGz X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: ymail-3 Message-ID: <49637734.5060900@netconfcentral.com> Date: Tue, 06 Jan 2009 07:22:28 -0800 From: Andy Bierman User-Agent: Thunderbird 2.0.0.19 (Windows/20081209) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Andy Bierman , NETMOD Working Group References: <4951803E.8030009@netconfcentral.com> <20090102185619.GA7845@elstar.local> <495E799B.3020805@netconfcentral.com> <20090105121433.GA6993@elstar.local> <49622346.1080407@netconfcentral.com> <20090105151921.GA7202@elstar.local> <49622A2C.1050103@netconfcentral.com> <20090105161532.GB7239@elstar.local> <4962388D.50109@netconfcentral.com> <20090106134012.GA9001@elstar.local> In-Reply-To: <20090106134012.GA9001@elstar.local> Subject: Re: [netmod] container netconf X-BeenThere: netmod@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.9 Precedence: list List-Id: NETMOD WG list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; Format="flowed" Sender: netmod-bounces@ietf.org Errors-To: netmod-bounces@ietf.org Juergen Schoenwaelder wrote: > On Mon, Jan 05, 2009 at 08:42:53AM -0800, Andy Bierman wrote: > >> If the main module is like this example: >> >> module foo { >> namespace "blah"; >> prefix foo; >> >> include foo-root { version 2008-01-17; } >> include abc { version 2008-01-05; } >> include def { version 2008-04-25; } >> include hij { version 2008-11-12; } >> // ... more submodule includes >> include xyz { version 2009-01-05; } >> >> revision 2009-01-05 { >> description "updated xyz submodule"; >> } >> // 27 more revision statements >> >> } >> >> Every time the main module is republished, the revision >> date will be changed. >> >> Even though the importer will technically be safe: >> >> module bar { >> namespace "bar-blah"; >> prefix bar; >> >> import foo { version 2008-04-25; } >> >> revision 2008-11-05 { >> description "initial version"; >> } >> //... >> } >> >> The implementer of 'bar' may eventually want to check >> what changed in the 'foo' module. If the 'bar' module >> really only uses the 'def' sub-module from 'foo', >> then the foo module revision date is not the relevant >> trigger, the 'def' submodule revision date is the trigger. >> Since the revision clause is optional in the import >> or include, a change to 'def' may not be apparent to >> the 'bar' module implementer at all. > > But this is then a question of what a good "size" of a module is and > it is pretty much independent of using submodules or not. Even in SNMP > land, if I import BridgeId for BRIDGE-MIB and the module gets revised, > I have to find out by reading the module or using tools such as > smidiff whether I am affected or not. And in your example, the > module revision statement says > >> revision 2009-01-05 { >> description "updated xyz submodule"; >> } > > so it is rather clear what changed. > >> I don't think the IETF should use them. >> It's like "this amp go to 11." >> Why not rename submodule to be module, >> if that's how they are going to be used? >> >> They add complexity (like top-level augments >> into the same namespace, supposedly only needed >> to augment across modules). Some people really >> like them so I don't care if vendors use them, >> but the IETF should not. >> >> NETCONF is already defining a different namespace >> for every little thing that gets added. Dealing >> with 7 namespaces in the PDU instead of 3 or 4 is not a >> big deal. > > I don't care about the PDU - I care about the perspective from an > operator. As you know, the IETF process causes us to sometimes break > strongly related things into rather strange pieces. See for example > the IF-MIB and the IF-INVERTED-STACK-MIB. Or take the modular approach > taken to define management interfaces for SNMP itself. Or take the > NETCONF stuff where we start walking before we learn how to walk well. > As an operator scripting stuff, I prefer having everything related to > a particular protocol or service in one or very few logically well > organized namespaces (a standard one plus a vendor specific extension > one). Perhaps the question is whether we simplify for the operator, > the implementor, or the IETF processes. I have my preference... > I agree that using submodules could be made to work, although not as easily as just using modules. I do not agree that the PDU aspect does not matter. If the NETCONF protocol has retrieval mechanisms that allow all the IF info to be returned in one simple request, that also has value to the operator. The number of XML namespaces involved is not driving the complexity factor, it's the number of subtrees involved. > /js > Andy _______________________________________________ netmod mailing list netmod@ietf.org https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/netmod From netmod-bounces@ietf.org Tue Jan 6 07:58:12 2009 Return-Path: X-Original-To: netmod-archive@ietf.org Delivered-To: ietfarch-netmod-archive@core3.amsl.com Received: from [127.0.0.1] (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2FB613A6A30; Tue, 6 Jan 2009 07:58:12 -0800 (PST) X-Original-To: netmod@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: netmod@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id DDF0F3A6A32 for ; Tue, 6 Jan 2009 07:58:10 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.19 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.19 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=0.075, BAYES_00=-2.599, IP_NOT_FRIENDLY=0.334] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 6OWCbfCSfoKN for ; Tue, 6 Jan 2009 07:58:10 -0800 (PST) Received: from smtp123.sbc.mail.sp1.yahoo.com (smtp123.sbc.mail.sp1.yahoo.com [69.147.64.96]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with SMTP id 414FF3A6A30 for ; Tue, 6 Jan 2009 07:58:10 -0800 (PST) Received: (qmail 90549 invoked from network); 6 Jan 2009 15:57:56 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO ?127.0.0.1?) (andy@68.120.68.180 with plain) by smtp123.sbc.mail.sp1.yahoo.com with SMTP; 6 Jan 2009 15:57:54 -0000 X-YMail-OSG: 6SjbaKYVM1kPRLyzG1fntzeIjzKRrNMscmsSwva4O3KMGGa6wGYC7fIPsz0_uBfPUN9GjfdEQ4jnWgYLdXtpjGZoOxCrg9RiYwknuN6UugOWLNdvZG5DP4D0X.WDUya4nOYLnaLlhZsDx61kp2pOQ1U_ X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: ymail-3 Message-ID: <49637F7F.4050704@netconfcentral.com> Date: Tue, 06 Jan 2009 07:57:51 -0800 From: Andy Bierman User-Agent: Thunderbird 2.0.0.19 (Windows/20081209) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Phil Shafer References: <200901052115.n05LF4CV042054@idle.juniper.net> In-Reply-To: <200901052115.n05LF4CV042054@idle.juniper.net> Cc: netmod@ietf.org Subject: Re: [netmod] canonical order X-BeenThere: netmod@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.9 Precedence: list List-Id: NETMOD WG list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; Format="flowed" Sender: netmod-bounces@ietf.org Errors-To: netmod-bounces@ietf.org Phil Shafer wrote: > Andy Bierman writes: >> If both of these expressions do not yield the >> same result on the same datastore, then the >> XPath implementation is broken. Both are valid XPath. > > Sorry, too terse. I was giving an alternative for your use case > which doesn't use positioning. We should declare positioning as > implementation dependent and move on. > Do we at least agree that the order must be consistent within a single implementation? If the affected portion of the database has not changed at all, and if a manager retrieves /foo[3] or runs a must-test on /foo[3] at T0 and then T1, will the result be the same each time? IMO, MUST be yes. > Thanks, > Phil > Andy _______________________________________________ netmod mailing list netmod@ietf.org https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/netmod From netmod-bounces@ietf.org Tue Jan 6 08:20:43 2009 Return-Path: X-Original-To: netmod-archive@ietf.org Delivered-To: ietfarch-netmod-archive@core3.amsl.com Received: from [127.0.0.1] (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id CDE3F28C110; Tue, 6 Jan 2009 08:20:43 -0800 (PST) X-Original-To: netmod@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: netmod@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id A99CC28C113 for ; Tue, 6 Jan 2009 08:20:42 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -6.599 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-6.599 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-2.599, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-4] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id Syw5a4Rca7y9 for ; Tue, 6 Jan 2009 08:20:42 -0800 (PST) Received: from exprod7og103.obsmtp.com (exprod7og103.obsmtp.com [64.18.2.159]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 21C1D28C110 for ; Tue, 6 Jan 2009 08:20:40 -0800 (PST) Received: from source ([66.129.224.36]) (using TLSv1) by exprod7ob103.postini.com ([64.18.6.12]) with SMTP ID DSNKSWOEyPc/9IiPoWgfyVc7AEbF2641BIlK@postini.com; Tue, 06 Jan 2009 08:20:29 PST Received: from p-emfe01-sac.jnpr.net (66.129.254.72) by P-EMHUB01-HQ.jnpr.net (172.24.192.35) with Microsoft SMTP Server id 8.1.336.0; Tue, 6 Jan 2009 08:17:32 -0800 Received: from p-emlb02-sac.jnpr.net ([66.129.254.47]) by p-emfe01-sac.jnpr.net with Microsoft SMTPSVC(6.0.3790.3959); Tue, 6 Jan 2009 08:17:32 -0800 Received: from emailsmtp56.jnpr.net ([172.24.60.77]) by p-emlb02-sac.jnpr.net with Microsoft SMTPSVC(6.0.3790.3959); Tue, 6 Jan 2009 08:17:31 -0800 Received: from magenta.juniper.net ([172.17.27.123]) by emailsmtp56.jnpr.net with Microsoft SMTPSVC(6.0.3790.3959); Tue, 6 Jan 2009 08:17:30 -0800 Received: from idle.juniper.net (idleski.juniper.net [172.25.4.26]) by magenta.juniper.net (8.11.3/8.11.3) with ESMTP id n06GHUM61347; Tue, 6 Jan 2009 08:17:30 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from phil@juniper.net) Received: from idle.juniper.net (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by idle.juniper.net (8.13.8/8.13.8) with ESMTP id n06GBhEO047660; Tue, 6 Jan 2009 16:11:43 GMT (envelope-from phil@idle.juniper.net) Message-ID: <200901061611.n06GBhEO047660@idle.juniper.net> To: Andy Bierman In-Reply-To: <49637F7F.4050704@netconfcentral.com> Date: Tue, 6 Jan 2009 11:11:43 -0500 From: Phil Shafer X-OriginalArrivalTime: 06 Jan 2009 16:17:30.0767 (UTC) FILETIME=[464CD1F0:01C9701A] MIME-Version: 1.0 Cc: netmod@ietf.org Subject: Re: [netmod] canonical order X-BeenThere: netmod@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.9 Precedence: list List-Id: NETMOD WG list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: netmod-bounces@ietf.org Errors-To: netmod-bounces@ietf.org Andy Bierman writes: >Do we at least agree that the order must be consistent within >a single implementation? Sounded like you and Martin disagree on whether XPath allows this sort of order issues. Within a single element type, I don't see how para[3] could differ between implementations, but I certainly see that *[3] or node()[3] would be implementation specific. Thanks, Phil _______________________________________________ netmod mailing list netmod@ietf.org https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/netmod From netmod-bounces@ietf.org Tue Jan 6 08:50:51 2009 Return-Path: X-Original-To: netmod-archive@ietf.org Delivered-To: ietfarch-netmod-archive@core3.amsl.com Received: from [127.0.0.1] (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id D8F993A6405; Tue, 6 Jan 2009 08:50:51 -0800 (PST) X-Original-To: netmod@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: netmod@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 258F73A684C for ; Tue, 6 Jan 2009 08:50:50 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.191 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.191 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=0.074, BAYES_00=-2.599, IP_NOT_FRIENDLY=0.334] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id Nc2iP7iN959E for ; Tue, 6 Jan 2009 08:50:49 -0800 (PST) Received: from smtp120.sbc.mail.sp1.yahoo.com (smtp120.sbc.mail.sp1.yahoo.com [69.147.64.93]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with SMTP id 6FF313A6405 for ; Tue, 6 Jan 2009 08:50:49 -0800 (PST) Received: (qmail 46008 invoked from network); 6 Jan 2009 16:50:36 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO ?127.0.0.1?) (andy@68.120.68.180 with plain) by smtp120.sbc.mail.sp1.yahoo.com with SMTP; 6 Jan 2009 16:50:34 -0000 X-YMail-OSG: SMq1eIkVM1kkri5h_b6hyyT65PfRzZMg6K6SHmr4Sjltzvd3o49.7VD.iC3LXcOBpYn_SHnjupT4.V7pTUJYQDHAPlQHmekBJdMJZoig6_UAS3YjfQKAAabpS8EzV0U3kERbI0cynzs6Sq4RnowG7X4G X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: ymail-3 Message-ID: <49638BD7.90200@netconfcentral.com> Date: Tue, 06 Jan 2009 08:50:31 -0800 From: Andy Bierman User-Agent: Thunderbird 2.0.0.19 (Windows/20081209) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Phil Shafer References: <200901061611.n06GBhEO047660@idle.juniper.net> In-Reply-To: <200901061611.n06GBhEO047660@idle.juniper.net> Cc: netmod@ietf.org Subject: Re: [netmod] canonical order X-BeenThere: netmod@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.9 Precedence: list List-Id: NETMOD WG list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; Format="flowed" Sender: netmod-bounces@ietf.org Errors-To: netmod-bounces@ietf.org Phil Shafer wrote: > Andy Bierman writes: >> Do we at least agree that the order must be consistent within >> a single implementation? > > Sounded like you and Martin disagree on whether XPath allows this > sort of order issues. Within a single element type, I don't see > how para[3] could differ between implementations, but I certainly > see that *[3] or node()[3] would be implementation specific. > We are just talking about 1 manager issuing a or a with a an XPath filter to 1 particular agent. If the manager issues the same command 2 times in a row with the same XPath (I don't care what it is), and no nodes have been added or removed from the database, and no values in the database have changed at all: Will the manager get the same answer or not? If not, why not? I understand that results from different agents may not be the same, even for the same (*) database contents. * configurations can only be compared outside the database, represented as XML documents. > Thanks, > Phil > > > Andy _______________________________________________ netmod mailing list netmod@ietf.org https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/netmod From netmod-bounces@ietf.org Wed Jan 7 01:24:49 2009 Return-Path: X-Original-To: netmod-archive@ietf.org Delivered-To: ietfarch-netmod-archive@core3.amsl.com Received: from [127.0.0.1] (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id A93673A6A5E; Wed, 7 Jan 2009 01:24:49 -0800 (PST) X-Original-To: netmod@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: netmod@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id B27C63A6A5F for ; Wed, 7 Jan 2009 01:24:48 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -0.765 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-0.765 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=-1.017, BAYES_20=-0.74, DATE_IN_PAST_12_24=0.992] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id fzS6i7YgXtzJ for ; Wed, 7 Jan 2009 01:24:47 -0800 (PST) Received: from mk-outboundfilter-1.mail.uk.tiscali.com (mk-outboundfilter-1.mail.uk.tiscali.com [212.74.114.37]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 185D83A690E for ; Wed, 7 Jan 2009 01:24:46 -0800 (PST) X-Trace: 209837775/mk-outboundfilter-1.mail.uk.tiscali.com/PIPEX/$PIPEX-ACCEPTED/pipex-customers/62.188.100.60/None/cfinss@dial.pipex.com X-SBRS: None X-RemoteIP: 62.188.100.60 X-IP-MAIL-FROM: cfinss@dial.pipex.com X-MUA: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1106Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 X-IP-BHB: Once X-IronPort-Anti-Spam-Filtered: true X-IronPort-Anti-Spam-Result: AkAFAJADZEk+vGQ8/2dsb2JhbABGgn0pF4lKwXEGhW8 X-IronPort-AV: E=Sophos;i="4.37,225,1231113600"; d="scan'208";a="209837775" X-IP-Direction: IN Received: from 1cust60.tnt1.lnd9.gbr.da.uu.net (HELO allison) ([62.188.100.60]) by smtp.pipex.tiscali.co.uk with SMTP; 07 Jan 2009 09:24:26 +0000 Message-ID: <000401c970a1$54e7e920$0601a8c0@allison> From: "tom.petch" To: , "Martin Bjorklund" References: <20081229.210146.54343388.mbj@tail-f.com><495933C5.6020602@netconfcentral.com><20081229.232315.257844469.mbj@tail-f.com> <20090105.130025.255233375.mbj@tail-f.com> Date: Tue, 6 Jan 2009 12:11:00 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1106 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Cc: netmod@ietf.org Subject: Re: [netmod] XPath document root X-BeenThere: netmod@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.9 Precedence: list Reply-To: "tom.petch" List-Id: NETMOD WG list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: netmod-bounces@ietf.org Errors-To: netmod-bounces@ietf.org ----- Original Message ----- From: "Martin Bjorklund" To: Cc: Sent: Monday, January 05, 2009 1:00 PM Subject: Re: [netmod] XPath document root > Hi, > > How about adding new text after: > > The XPath expression is conceptually evaluated in the following > context: > > o The context node is the node in the data tree for which the "must" > statement is defined. > > o The accessible tree is made up of all nodes in the data tree, and > all leafs with default values. > > ... > > NEW: > > The accessible data tree depends on the context node: > > o If the context node represents configuration, the tree is the data > in one of the datastores , , or . > > o If the context node represents state data, the tree is all state > data on the device, and the datastore. > > o If the context node represents notification content, the tree is > the notification XML instance document, with the root node being > the element representing the notification. > > o If the context node represents RPC input parameters, the tree is > the RPC XML instance document, with the root node being the > element representing the RPC method. > > o If the context node represents RPC output parameters, the tree is > the RPC reply instance document, with the root node being the > element. > > This would be added to the must and when sections. > > Do we need more text? > I am struggling with this. To me, the root node is the one above everything; to quote the usual source, "The root node is the root of the tree. A root node does not occur except as the root of the tree. The element node for the document element is a child of the root node. The root node also has as children processing instruction and comment nodes for processing instructions and comments that occur in the prolog and after the end of the document element." so are the references to root node (in notification, RPC input, RPC output) really to the root node or to the document element node that is under the root node? > > /martin > _______________________________________________ > netmod mailing list > netmod@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/netmod _______________________________________________ netmod mailing list netmod@ietf.org https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/netmod From netmod-bounces@ietf.org Wed Jan 7 01:33:06 2009 Return-Path: X-Original-To: netmod-archive@ietf.org Delivered-To: ietfarch-netmod-archive@core3.amsl.com Received: from [127.0.0.1] (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 240EB3A6989; Wed, 7 Jan 2009 01:33:06 -0800 (PST) X-Original-To: netmod@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: netmod@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 494A93A69A7 for ; Wed, 7 Jan 2009 01:33:05 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.015 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.015 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=0.031, BAYES_00=-2.599, HELO_MISMATCH_COM=0.553] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id vX5k5L4FOTB4 for ; Wed, 7 Jan 2009 01:33:04 -0800 (PST) Received: from mail.tail-f.com (de-0316.d.ipeer.se [213.180.79.212]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 82E723A6989 for ; Wed, 7 Jan 2009 01:33:04 -0800 (PST) Received: from localhost (138.162.241.83.in-addr.dgcsystems.net [83.241.162.138]) by mail.tail-f.com (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 6428476C51F; Wed, 7 Jan 2009 10:32:50 +0100 (CET) Date: Wed, 07 Jan 2009 10:32:46 +0100 (CET) Message-Id: <20090107.103246.35854703.mbj@tail-f.com> To: cfinss@dial.pipex.com From: Martin Bjorklund In-Reply-To: <000401c970a1$54e7e920$0601a8c0@allison> References: <20081229.232315.257844469.mbj@tail-f.com> <20090105.130025.255233375.mbj@tail-f.com> <000401c970a1$54e7e920$0601a8c0@allison> X-Mailer: Mew version 6.0.51 on Emacs 22.2 / Mule 5.0 (SAKAKI) Mime-Version: 1.0 Cc: netmod@ietf.org Subject: Re: [netmod] XPath document root X-BeenThere: netmod@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.9 Precedence: list List-Id: NETMOD WG list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: netmod-bounces@ietf.org Errors-To: netmod-bounces@ietf.org "tom.petch" wrote: > so are the references to root node (in notification, RPC input, RPC output) > really to the root node or to the document element node that is under the root > node? The references are to the root node, with the definition you quoted. For example: notification event { leaf eventClass { ... } container reportingEntity { ... } leaf severity { must "/eventClass != 'xxx'"; // absolute path ... } } An instance document could be: 2007-07-08T00:01:00Z fault Ethernet0 major /martin _______________________________________________ netmod mailing list netmod@ietf.org https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/netmod From netmod-bounces@ietf.org Wed Jan 7 02:09:24 2009 Return-Path: X-Original-To: netmod-archive@ietf.org Delivered-To: ietfarch-netmod-archive@core3.amsl.com Received: from [127.0.0.1] (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id CEEF23A6A29; Wed, 7 Jan 2009 02:09:24 -0800 (PST) X-Original-To: netmod@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: netmod@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id DC41E28C0E6 for ; Wed, 7 Jan 2009 02:09:23 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -0.314 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-0.314 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=-0.553, BAYES_05=-1.11, HELO_EQ_CZ=0.445, HOST_EQ_CZ=0.904] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id zJPE4xNob3fm for ; 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charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 Sender: netmod-bounces@ietf.org Errors-To: netmod-bounces@ietf.org dG9tLnBldGNoIHDDrcWhZSB2IMOadCAwNi4gMDEuIDIwMDkgdiAxMjoxMSArMDEwMDoKCj4gSSBh bSBzdHJ1Z2dsaW5nIHdpdGggdGhpcy4gIFRvIG1lLCB0aGUgcm9vdCBub2RlIGlzIHRoZSBvbmUg YWJvdmUgZXZlcnl0aGluZzsgdG8KPiBxdW90ZSB0aGUgdXN1YWwgc291cmNlLAo+IAo+ICJUaGUg cm9vdCBub2RlIGlzIHRoZSByb290IG9mIHRoZSB0cmVlLiBBIHJvb3Qgbm9kZSBkb2VzIG5vdCBv Y2N1ciBleGNlcHQgYXMgdGhlCj4gcm9vdCBvZiB0aGUgdHJlZS4gVGhlIGVsZW1lbnQgbm9kZSBm b3IgdGhlIGRvY3VtZW50IGVsZW1lbnQgaXMgYSBjaGlsZCBvZiB0aGUKPiByb290IG5vZGUuIFRo ZSByb290IG5vZGUgYWxzbyBoYXMgYXMgY2hpbGRyZW4gcHJvY2Vzc2luZyBpbnN0cnVjdGlvbiBh bmQgY29tbWVudAo+IG5vZGVzIGZvciBwcm9jZXNzaW5nIGluc3RydWN0aW9ucyBhbmQgY29tbWVu dHMgdGhhdCBvY2N1ciBpbiB0aGUgcHJvbG9nIGFuZAo+IGFmdGVyIHRoZSBlbmQgb2YgdGhlIGRv Y3VtZW50IGVsZW1lbnQuIgo+IAo+IHNvIGFyZSB0aGUgcmVmZXJlbmNlcyB0byByb290IG5vZGUg KGluIG5vdGlmaWNhdGlvbiwgUlBDIGlucHV0LCBSUEMgb3V0cHV0KQo+IHJlYWxseSB0byB0aGUg cm9vdCBub2RlIG9yIHRvIHRoZSBkb2N1bWVudCBlbGVtZW50IG5vZGUgdGhhdCBpcyB1bmRlciB0 aGUgcm9vdAo+IG5vZGU/Cj4gClRoaXMgaXMgb25lIG9mIHRoZSBtZXNzeSBwYXJ0cyBpbiBYTUwu IEluIFhNTCAxLjAsIHJvb3QgZWxlbWVudCBpcyB0aGUKc2FtZSBhcyBkb2N1bWVudCBlbGVtZW50 LCBYUGF0aCAxLjAgKHdoaWNoIGlzIHdoYXQgeW91IHByb2JhYmx5IGNpdGUpCmhhcyB0aGUgcm9v dCBub2RlIGNvbmNlcHQsIGFuZCBYUGF0aCAyLjAgYW5kIFhRdWVyeSB1c2VzICJkb2N1bWVudCBu b2RlIgptZWFuaW5nIHRoZSBzYW1lIHRoaW5nIGFzICJyb290IG5vZGUiIGluIFhQYXRoIDEuMC4K ClRoZSBZQU5HIGRyYWZ0IHNob3VsZCBjbGFyaWZ5IHRoaXMgaW4gdGhlIFRlcm1pbm9sb2d5IHNl Y3Rpb24gYW5kIGFsc28KZWxzZXdoZXJlIGluIGEgbW9yZSB2ZXJib3NlIGZvcm0uCgpMYWRhCgot LSAKTGFkaXNsYXYgTGhvdGthLCBDRVNORVQKUEdQIEtleSBJRDogRTc0RThDMEMKCl9fX19fX19f X19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fCm5ldG1vZCBtYWlsaW5nIGxp c3QKbmV0bW9kQGlldGYub3JnCmh0dHBzOi8vd3d3LmlldGYub3JnL21haWxtYW4vbGlzdGluZm8v bmV0bW9kCg== From netmod-bounces@ietf.org Wed Jan 7 02:22:11 2009 Return-Path: X-Original-To: netmod-archive@ietf.org Delivered-To: ietfarch-netmod-archive@core3.amsl.com Received: from [127.0.0.1] (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 490223A6899; Wed, 7 Jan 2009 02:22:11 -0800 (PST) X-Original-To: netmod@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: netmod@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id C1A663A68AD for ; Wed, 7 Jan 2009 02:22:10 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.047 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.047 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=0.203, BAYES_00=-2.599, HELO_EQ_CZ=0.445, HOST_EQ_CZ=0.904] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id SuP0gEJAJQFd for ; Wed, 7 Jan 2009 02:22:10 -0800 (PST) Received: from office2.cesnet.cz (office2.cesnet.cz [195.113.144.244]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id EFD7E3A6899 for ; Wed, 7 Jan 2009 02:22:09 -0800 (PST) Received: from [172.29.2.201] (asus-gx.lhotka.cesnet.cz [195.113.161.161]) by office2.cesnet.cz (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9BAD3D800D1 for ; Wed, 7 Jan 2009 11:21:56 +0100 (CET) From: Ladislav Lhotka To: netmod@ietf.org In-Reply-To: <20090107.103246.35854703.mbj@tail-f.com> References: <20081229.232315.257844469.mbj@tail-f.com> <20090105.130025.255233375.mbj@tail-f.com> <000401c970a1$54e7e920$0601a8c0@allison> <20090107.103246.35854703.mbj@tail-f.com> Organization: CESNET Date: Wed, 07 Jan 2009 11:21:55 +0100 Message-Id: <1231323715.21933.48.camel@missotis> Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Evolution 2.22.3.1 Subject: Re: [netmod] XPath document root X-BeenThere: netmod@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.9 Precedence: list List-Id: NETMOD WG list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 Sender: netmod-bounces@ietf.org Errors-To: netmod-bounces@ietf.org TWFydGluIEJqb3JrbHVuZCBww63FoWUgdiBTdCAwNy4gMDEuIDIwMDkgdiAxMDozMiArMDEwMDoK PiAidG9tLnBldGNoIiA8Y2ZpbnNzQGRpYWwucGlwZXguY29tPiB3cm90ZToKPiA+IHNvIGFyZSB0 aGUgcmVmZXJlbmNlcyB0byByb290IG5vZGUgKGluIG5vdGlmaWNhdGlvbiwgUlBDIGlucHV0LCBS UEMgb3V0cHV0KQo+ID4gcmVhbGx5IHRvIHRoZSByb290IG5vZGUgb3IgdG8gdGhlIGRvY3VtZW50 IGVsZW1lbnQgbm9kZSB0aGF0IGlzIHVuZGVyIHRoZSByb290Cj4gPiBub2RlPwo+IAo+IFRoZSBy ZWZlcmVuY2VzIGFyZSB0byB0aGUgcm9vdCBub2RlLCB3aXRoIHRoZSBkZWZpbml0aW9uIHlvdSBx dW90ZWQuCj4gCj4gRm9yIGV4YW1wbGU6Cj4gCj4gICBub3RpZmljYXRpb24gZXZlbnQgewo+ICAg ICAgIGxlYWYgZXZlbnRDbGFzcyB7IC4uLiB9Cj4gICAgICAgY29udGFpbmVyIHJlcG9ydGluZ0Vu dGl0eSB7IC4uLiB9Cj4gICAgICAgbGVhZiBzZXZlcml0eSB7IAo+ICAgICAgICAgICBtdXN0ICIv ZXZlbnRDbGFzcyAhPSAneHh4JyI7ICAgIC8vIGFic29sdXRlIHBhdGgKPiAgICAgICAgICAgLi4u Cj4gICAgICAgfQo+ICAgfQoKSG1tLCB0aGlzIGlzIGNvbmZ1c2luZywgSU1PIHRoZSByb290IG5v ZGUgKGZvbGxvd2luZyB0aGUgdGVybWlub2xvZ3kgb2YKWFBhdGggMS4wKSBpcyB0aGUgaW52aXNp YmxlIGxvY2F0aW9uIGp1c3QgYWJvdmUgPGV2ZW50Piwgc28gdGhlIFhQYXRoCmV4cHJlc3Npb24g c2hvdWxkIHJlYWQgIi9ldmVudC9ldmVudENsYXNzICE9ICd4eHgnIiAobW9kdWxvIG15IHN0YW5k YXJkCmNvbXBsYWludCBhYm91dCBudWxsIG5hbWVzcGFjZSkuCgpMYWRhCgo+IAo+IEFuIGluc3Rh bmNlIGRvY3VtZW50IGNvdWxkIGJlOgo+IAo+ICAgIDxub3RpZmljYXRpb24KPiAgICAgICB4bWxu cz0idXJuOmlldGY6cGFyYW1zOnhtbDpuczpuZXRjb25mOm5vdGlmaWNhdGlvbjoxLjAiPgo+ICAg ICAgIDxldmVudFRpbWU+MjAwNy0wNy0wOFQwMDowMTowMFo8L2V2ZW50VGltZT4KPiAgICAgICA8 ZXZlbnQgeG1sbnM9Imh0dHA6Ly9leGFtcGxlLmNvbS9ldmVudC8xLjAiPiAgPCEtLSByb290IG5v ZGUgLS0+Cj4gICAgICAgICAgPGV2ZW50Q2xhc3M+ZmF1bHQ8L2V2ZW50Q2xhc3M+Cj4gICAgICAg ICAgPHJlcG9ydGluZ0VudGl0eT4KPiAgICAgICAgICAgICAgPGNhcmQ+RXRoZXJuZXQwPC9jYXJk Pgo+ICAgICAgICAgIDwvcmVwb3J0aW5nRW50aXR5Pgo+ICAgICAgICAgIDxzZXZlcml0eT5tYWpv cjwvc2V2ZXJpdHk+Cj4gICAgICAgIDwvZXZlbnQ+Cj4gICAgPC9ub3RpZmljYXRpb24+Cj4gICAK PiAKPiAvbWFydGluCj4gX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19f X19fX18KPiBuZXRtb2QgbWFpbGluZyBsaXN0Cj4gbmV0bW9kQGlldGYub3JnCj4gaHR0cHM6Ly93 d3cuaWV0Zi5vcmcvbWFpbG1hbi9saXN0aW5mby9uZXRtb2QKLS0gCkxhZGlzbGF2IExob3RrYSwg Q0VTTkVUClBHUCBLZXkgSUQ6IEU3NEU4QzBDCgpfX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19f X19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fXwpuZXRtb2QgbWFpbGluZyBsaXN0Cm5ldG1vZEBpZXRmLm9yZwpo dHRwczovL3d3dy5pZXRmLm9yZy9tYWlsbWFuL2xpc3RpbmZvL25ldG1vZAo= From netmod-bounces@ietf.org Wed Jan 7 04:44:39 2009 Return-Path: X-Original-To: netmod-archive@ietf.org Delivered-To: ietfarch-netmod-archive@core3.amsl.com Received: from [127.0.0.1] (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id AF8753A6989; Wed, 7 Jan 2009 04:44:39 -0800 (PST) X-Original-To: netmod@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: netmod@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3DA853A6A3C for ; Wed, 7 Jan 2009 04:44:38 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.016 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.016 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=0.030, BAYES_00=-2.599, HELO_MISMATCH_COM=0.553] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 8KKE-0dmqR9M for ; Wed, 7 Jan 2009 04:44:37 -0800 (PST) Received: from mail.tail-f.com (de-0316.d.ipeer.se [213.180.79.212]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7334A3A6989 for ; Wed, 7 Jan 2009 04:44:37 -0800 (PST) Received: from localhost (138.162.241.83.in-addr.dgcsystems.net [83.241.162.138]) by mail.tail-f.com (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 9BE8C76C51F; Wed, 7 Jan 2009 13:44:22 +0100 (CET) Date: Wed, 07 Jan 2009 13:44:22 +0100 (CET) Message-Id: <20090107.134422.113719333.mbj@tail-f.com> To: lhotka@cesnet.cz From: Martin Bjorklund In-Reply-To: <1231323715.21933.48.camel@missotis> References: <000401c970a1$54e7e920$0601a8c0@allison> <20090107.103246.35854703.mbj@tail-f.com> <1231323715.21933.48.camel@missotis> X-Mailer: Mew version 6.0.51 on Emacs 22.2 / Mule 5.0 (SAKAKI) Mime-Version: 1.0 Cc: netmod@ietf.org Subject: Re: [netmod] XPath document root X-BeenThere: netmod@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.9 Precedence: list List-Id: NETMOD WG list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 Sender: netmod-bounces@ietf.org Errors-To: netmod-bounces@ietf.org TGFkaXNsYXYgTGhvdGthIDxsaG90a2FAY2VzbmV0LmN6PiB3cm90ZToNCj4gTWFydGluIEJqb3Jr bHVuZCBww63FoWUgdiBTdCAwNy4gMDEuIDIwMDkgdiAxMDozMiArMDEwMDoNCj4gPiAidG9tLnBl dGNoIiA8Y2ZpbnNzQGRpYWwucGlwZXguY29tPiB3cm90ZToNCj4gPiA+IHNvIGFyZSB0aGUgcmVm ZXJlbmNlcyB0byByb290IG5vZGUgKGluIG5vdGlmaWNhdGlvbiwgUlBDIGlucHV0LCBSUEMgb3V0 cHV0KQ0KPiA+ID4gcmVhbGx5IHRvIHRoZSByb290IG5vZGUgb3IgdG8gdGhlIGRvY3VtZW50IGVs ZW1lbnQgbm9kZSB0aGF0IGlzIHVuZGVyIHRoZQ0KPiA+ID4gcm9vdA0KPiA+ID4gbm9kZT8NCj4g PiANCj4gPiBUaGUgcmVmZXJlbmNlcyBhcmUgdG8gdGhlIHJvb3Qgbm9kZSwgd2l0aCB0aGUgZGVm aW5pdGlvbiB5b3UgcXVvdGVkLg0KPiA+IA0KPiA+IEZvciBleGFtcGxlOg0KPiA+IA0KPiA+ICAg bm90aWZpY2F0aW9uIGV2ZW50IHsNCj4gPiAgICAgICBsZWFmIGV2ZW50Q2xhc3MgeyAuLi4gfQ0K PiA+ICAgICAgIGNvbnRhaW5lciByZXBvcnRpbmdFbnRpdHkgeyAuLi4gfQ0KPiA+ICAgICAgIGxl YWYgc2V2ZXJpdHkgeyANCj4gPiAgICAgICAgICAgbXVzdCAiL2V2ZW50Q2xhc3MgIT0gJ3h4eCci OyAgICAvLyBhYnNvbHV0ZSBwYXRoDQo+ID4gICAgICAgICAgIC4uLg0KPiA+ICAgICAgIH0NCj4g PiAgIH0NCj4gDQo+IEhtbSwgdGhpcyBpcyBjb25mdXNpbmcsIElNTyB0aGUgcm9vdCBub2RlIChm b2xsb3dpbmcgdGhlIHRlcm1pbm9sb2d5IG9mDQo+IFhQYXRoIDEuMCkgaXMgdGhlIGludmlzaWJs ZSBsb2NhdGlvbiBqdXN0IGFib3ZlIDxldmVudD4sIHNvIHRoZSBYUGF0aA0KPiBleHByZXNzaW9u IHNob3VsZCByZWFkICIvZXZlbnQvZXZlbnRDbGFzcyAhPSAneHh4JyIgKG1vZHVsbyBteSBzdGFu ZGFyZA0KPiBjb21wbGFpbnQgYWJvdXQgbnVsbCBuYW1lc3BhY2UpLg0KDQpXZWxsLCBpdCdzIHVw IHRvIHVzIHRvIGRlZmluZSB0aGlzLiAgSW4gbXkgcHJvcG9zYWwsIEkgZGVmaW5lZCBpdCB0bw0K YmUgdGhlIGV2ZW50IG5vZGUgaXRzZWxmLiAgVGhlIHJlYXNvbiB3YXMgY29uc2lzdGVuY3kgd2l0 aCBycGMNCnBhcmFtZXRlcnM6DQoNCiAgcnBjIGZvbyB7DQogICAgaW5wdXQgew0KICAgICAgbGVh ZiBhIHsgLi4uIH0NCiAgICAgIGxlYWYgYiB7DQogICAgICAgIG11c3QgIi9hICE9ICcxJyI7DQog ICAgICAgIC4uLg0KICAgICAgfQ0KICAgIH0NCiAgICBvdXRwdXQgew0KICAgICAgbGVhZiBjIHsg Li4uIH0NCiAgICAgIGxlYWYgZCB7IA0KICAgICAgICBtdXN0ICIvYyAhPSAnMiciOw0KICAgICAg ICAuLi4NCiAgICAgIH0NCiAgICB9DQogIH0NCg0KICA8cnBjPg0KICAgIDxmb28+ICAgICAgICAg PCEtLSByb290IG5vZGUgLS0+DQogICAgICA8YT4uLi48L2E+DQogICAgICA8Yj4uLi48L2I+DQog ICAgPC9mb28+DQogIDwvcnBjPg0KDQogIDxycGMtcmVwbHk+ICAgICAgPCEtLSByb290IG5vZGUg LS0+DQogICAgPGM+Li4uPC9jPg0KICAgIDxkPi4uLjwvZD4NCiAgPC9ycGMtcmVwbHk+DQoNCg0K DQovbWFydGluDQpfX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19f XwpuZXRtb2QgbWFpbGluZyBsaXN0Cm5ldG1vZEBpZXRmLm9yZwpodHRwczovL3d3dy5pZXRmLm9y Zy9tYWlsbWFuL2xpc3RpbmZvL25ldG1vZAo= From netmod-bounces@ietf.org Wed Jan 7 05:00:34 2009 Return-Path: X-Original-To: netmod-archive@ietf.org Delivered-To: ietfarch-netmod-archive@core3.amsl.com Received: from [127.0.0.1] (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id CB1543A6A4C; 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(andy@68.120.68.180 with plain) by smtp123.sbc.mail.sp1.yahoo.com with SMTP; 7 Jan 2009 13:00:17 -0000 X-YMail-OSG: 2ppPACgVM1lT0_cTKMoQ05rEEtdn_cM1TE3kbrsVS7TvPHz0eQkLi5FTjcBAryzUCdiH3_qSsrE3AOCjMzO0TXhD7yDFKEiEgi7RAGYEqbxQcQ5kGTuSGhWBXKWNdU5QgpTT6y4296OKPI0Fd222NF8PizWZl.1.Di3zxP5WSXe.z.3vJP3OvXOZKKK1KWd8R7aRkh4Ffkgw0A-- X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: ymail-3 Message-ID: <4964A75E.4060408@netconfcentral.com> Date: Wed, 07 Jan 2009 05:00:14 -0800 From: Andy Bierman User-Agent: Thunderbird 2.0.0.19 (Windows/20081209) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Martin Bjorklund References: <000401c970a1$54e7e920$0601a8c0@allison> <20090107.103246.35854703.mbj@tail-f.com> <1231323715.21933.48.camel@missotis> <20090107.134422.113719333.mbj@tail-f.com> In-Reply-To: <20090107.134422.113719333.mbj@tail-f.com> Cc: netmod@ietf.org Subject: Re: [netmod] XPath document root X-BeenThere: netmod@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.9 Precedence: list List-Id: NETMOD WG list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"; Format="flowed" Sender: netmod-bounces@ietf.org Errors-To: netmod-bounces@ietf.org TWFydGluIEJqb3JrbHVuZCB3cm90ZToKPiBMYWRpc2xhdiBMaG90a2EgPGxob3RrYUBjZXNuZXQu Y3o+IHdyb3RlOgo+PiBNYXJ0aW4gQmpvcmtsdW5kIHDDrcWhZSB2IFN0IDA3LiAwMS4gMjAwOSB2 IDEwOjMyICswMTAwOgo+Pj4gInRvbS5wZXRjaCIgPGNmaW5zc0BkaWFsLnBpcGV4LmNvbT4gd3Jv dGU6Cj4+Pj4gc28gYXJlIHRoZSByZWZlcmVuY2VzIHRvIHJvb3Qgbm9kZSAoaW4gbm90aWZpY2F0 aW9uLCBSUEMgaW5wdXQsIFJQQyBvdXRwdXQpCj4+Pj4gcmVhbGx5IHRvIHRoZSByb290IG5vZGUg b3IgdG8gdGhlIGRvY3VtZW50IGVsZW1lbnQgbm9kZSB0aGF0IGlzIHVuZGVyIHRoZQo+Pj4+IHJv b3QKPj4+PiBub2RlPwo+Pj4gVGhlIHJlZmVyZW5jZXMgYXJlIHRvIHRoZSByb290IG5vZGUsIHdp dGggdGhlIGRlZmluaXRpb24geW91IHF1b3RlZC4KPj4+Cj4+PiBGb3IgZXhhbXBsZToKPj4+Cj4+ PiAgIG5vdGlmaWNhdGlvbiBldmVudCB7Cj4+PiAgICAgICBsZWFmIGV2ZW50Q2xhc3MgeyAuLi4g fQo+Pj4gICAgICAgY29udGFpbmVyIHJlcG9ydGluZ0VudGl0eSB7IC4uLiB9Cj4+PiAgICAgICBs ZWFmIHNldmVyaXR5IHsgCj4+PiAgICAgICAgICAgbXVzdCAiL2V2ZW50Q2xhc3MgIT0gJ3h4eCci OyAgICAvLyBhYnNvbHV0ZSBwYXRoCj4+PiAgICAgICAgICAgLi4uCj4+PiAgICAgICB9Cj4+PiAg IH0KPj4gSG1tLCB0aGlzIGlzIGNvbmZ1c2luZywgSU1PIHRoZSByb290IG5vZGUgKGZvbGxvd2lu ZyB0aGUgdGVybWlub2xvZ3kgb2YKPj4gWFBhdGggMS4wKSBpcyB0aGUgaW52aXNpYmxlIGxvY2F0 aW9uIGp1c3QgYWJvdmUgPGV2ZW50Piwgc28gdGhlIFhQYXRoCj4+IGV4cHJlc3Npb24gc2hvdWxk IHJlYWQgIi9ldmVudC9ldmVudENsYXNzICE9ICd4eHgnIiAobW9kdWxvIG15IHN0YW5kYXJkCj4+ IGNvbXBsYWludCBhYm91dCBudWxsIG5hbWVzcGFjZSkuCj4gCj4gV2VsbCwgaXQncyB1cCB0byB1 cyB0byBkZWZpbmUgdGhpcy4gIEluIG15IHByb3Bvc2FsLCBJIGRlZmluZWQgaXQgdG8KPiBiZSB0 aGUgZXZlbnQgbm9kZSBpdHNlbGYuICBUaGUgcmVhc29uIHdhcyBjb25zaXN0ZW5jeSB3aXRoIHJw Ywo+IHBhcmFtZXRlcnM6Cj4gCgpJIGFncmVlIHdpdGggTWFydGluLgpUaGUgZG9jdW1lbnQgcm9v dHMgbmVlZCB0byBiZSBkZWZpbmVkIHRoaXMgd2F5CnRvIGtlZXAgdGhlIG11c3Qvd2hlbiBleHBy ZXNzaW9ucyBjb25zdHJhaW5lZCB0bwphIHNpbmdsZSBYTUwgZG9jdW1lbnQgKFBEVSkuCgpUaGlz IGFwcGxpZXMgdG8ga2V5cmVmIGV4cHJlc3Npb24gdG9vPwpUaGF0J3Mgd2hlcmUgaXQgaXMgZ2V0 dGluZyByZWFsbHkgY29uZnVzaW5nCmFuZCBjb21wbGljYXRlZCB0byBpbXBsZW1lbnQuCgpXaHkg ZG8gd2UgbmVlZCBrZXlyZWZzIHRoYXQgcG9pbnQgaW5zaWRlIC9ycGMvaW5wdXQsCi9ycGMvb3V0 cHV0LCBvciAvbm90aWZpY2F0aW9uPwoKSU1PLCBrZXlyZWYgc2hvdWxkIGFsd2F5cyBwb2ludCBh dCB0aGUgZGF0YWJhc2UsCnNvIHRoZSBkb2Nyb290ICgvKSBpcyBhbHdheXMgYXNzb2NpYXRlZCB3 aXRoIHRoZSA8Y29uZmlnPiBub2RlLgoKCgo+ICAgcnBjIGZvbyB7Cj4gICAgIGlucHV0IHsKPiAg ICAgICBsZWFmIGEgeyAuLi4gfQo+ICAgICAgIGxlYWYgYiB7Cj4gICAgICAgICBtdXN0ICIvYSAh PSAnMSciOwo+ICAgICAgICAgLi4uCj4gICAgICAgfQo+ICAgICB9Cj4gICAgIG91dHB1dCB7Cj4g ICAgICAgbGVhZiBjIHsgLi4uIH0KPiAgICAgICBsZWFmIGQgeyAKPiAgICAgICAgIG11c3QgIi9j ICE9ICcyJyI7Cj4gICAgICAgICAuLi4KPiAgICAgICB9Cj4gICAgIH0KPiAgIH0KPiAKPiAgIDxy cGM+Cj4gICAgIDxmb28+ICAgICAgICAgPCEtLSByb290IG5vZGUgLS0+Cj4gICAgICAgPGE+Li4u PC9hPgo+ICAgICAgIDxiPi4uLjwvYj4KPiAgICAgPC9mb28+Cj4gICA8L3JwYz4KPiAKPiAgIDxy cGMtcmVwbHk+ICAgICAgPCEtLSByb290IG5vZGUgLS0+Cj4gICAgIDxjPi4uLjwvYz4KPiAgICAg PGQ+Li4uPC9kPgo+ICAgPC9ycGMtcmVwbHk+Cj4gCj4gCj4gCj4gL21hcnRpbgoKQW5keQoKCl9f X19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fCm5ldG1vZCBtYWls aW5nIGxpc3QKbmV0bW9kQGlldGYub3JnCmh0dHBzOi8vd3d3LmlldGYub3JnL21haWxtYW4vbGlz dGluZm8vbmV0bW9kCg== From netmod-bounces@ietf.org Wed Jan 7 05:28:16 2009 Return-Path: X-Original-To: netmod-archive@ietf.org Delivered-To: ietfarch-netmod-archive@core3.amsl.com Received: from [127.0.0.1] (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 78E2A3A6834; 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(andy@68.120.68.180 with plain) by smtp125.sbc.mail.sp1.yahoo.com with SMTP; 7 Jan 2009 13:27:59 -0000 X-YMail-OSG: ek.ryukVM1nZC_3ELlwlQBiN_HRzTQpmImNGQIME0fsLayx6kygb4w9gweSUMH7F5kLSJI6Thv0t9jOCHfzcu1BH8tZH9_sDkFKnH_b6aOevp5b_NbUW5slRqD9O3QZnrnlURkoESremvHBT2jP9LdYX X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: ymail-3 Message-ID: <4964ADDC.4090400@netconfcentral.com> Date: Wed, 07 Jan 2009 05:27:56 -0800 From: Andy Bierman User-Agent: Thunderbird 2.0.0.19 (Windows/20081209) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: NETMOD Working Group Subject: [netmod] XPath Data Model vs. YANG Data Model X-BeenThere: netmod@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.9 Precedence: list List-Id: NETMOD WG list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; Format="flowed" Sender: netmod-bounces@ietf.org Errors-To: netmod-bounces@ietf.org Hi, We probably need to include some text on how the XPath data model defined in section 5 of XPath 1.0 is applied to every single NETCONF PDU or a NETCONF configuration database. Sec. 5 is important because an implementor needs to figure out what to do for the node tests in sec. 2.3. None of these tests are really relevant to NETCONF, and will not likely be supported. The one test of interest is text(), this this matches any leaf content (except type empty?). Since NETMOD deals with elements only, it is not clear what to do with this one. The easiest thing to do is say all the tests except node() always return false. (XPath defines node() to match anything.) comment() text() processing-instruction() node() The namespace and attribute axis are probably going to be empty in NETMOD implementations as well. Andy _______________________________________________ netmod mailing list netmod@ietf.org https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/netmod From netmod-bounces@ietf.org Wed Jan 7 05:38:52 2009 Return-Path: X-Original-To: netmod-archive@ietf.org Delivered-To: ietfarch-netmod-archive@core3.amsl.com Received: from [127.0.0.1] (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2F93B3A68D4; Wed, 7 Jan 2009 05:38:52 -0800 (PST) X-Original-To: netmod@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: netmod@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id C9B4D3A6905 for ; Wed, 7 Jan 2009 05:38:50 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.051 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.051 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=0.199, BAYES_00=-2.599, HELO_EQ_CZ=0.445, HOST_EQ_CZ=0.904] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id EePNCVBwh01V for ; Wed, 7 Jan 2009 05:38:50 -0800 (PST) Received: from office2.cesnet.cz (office2.cesnet.cz [195.113.144.244]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0819B3A68D4 for ; Wed, 7 Jan 2009 05:38:50 -0800 (PST) Received: from [172.29.2.201] (asus-gx.lhotka.cesnet.cz [195.113.161.161]) by office2.cesnet.cz (Postfix) with ESMTP id 69EEDD800CC; Wed, 7 Jan 2009 14:38:36 +0100 (CET) From: Ladislav Lhotka To: Martin Bjorklund In-Reply-To: <20090107.134422.113719333.mbj@tail-f.com> References: <000401c970a1$54e7e920$0601a8c0@allison> <20090107.103246.35854703.mbj@tail-f.com> <1231323715.21933.48.camel@missotis> <20090107.134422.113719333.mbj@tail-f.com> Organization: CESNET Date: Wed, 07 Jan 2009 14:38:36 +0100 Message-Id: <1231335516.29031.78.camel@missotis> Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Evolution 2.22.3.1 Cc: netmod@ietf.org Subject: Re: [netmod] XPath document root X-BeenThere: netmod@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.9 Precedence: list List-Id: NETMOD WG list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Content-Type: text/plain; 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Wed, 7 Jan 2009 05:48:24 -0800 Received: from p-emlb02-sac.jnpr.net ([66.129.254.47]) by p-emfe01-sac.jnpr.net with Microsoft SMTPSVC(6.0.3790.3959); Wed, 7 Jan 2009 05:48:24 -0800 Received: from emailsmtp55.jnpr.net ([172.24.18.132]) by p-emlb02-sac.jnpr.net with Microsoft SMTPSVC(6.0.3790.3959); Wed, 7 Jan 2009 05:48:24 -0800 Received: from magenta.juniper.net ([172.17.27.123]) by emailsmtp55.jnpr.net with Microsoft SMTPSVC(6.0.3790.1830); Wed, 7 Jan 2009 05:48:23 -0800 Received: from idle.juniper.net (idleski.juniper.net [172.25.4.26]) by magenta.juniper.net (8.11.3/8.11.3) with ESMTP id n07DmNM48863; Wed, 7 Jan 2009 05:48:23 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from phil@juniper.net) Received: from idle.juniper.net (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by idle.juniper.net (8.13.8/8.13.8) with ESMTP id n07DgXaM055613; Wed, 7 Jan 2009 13:42:35 GMT (envelope-from phil@idle.juniper.net) Message-ID: <200901071342.n07DgXaM055613@idle.juniper.net> To: Martin Bjorklund In-Reply-To: <20090107.134422.113719333.mbj@tail-f.com> Date: Wed, 7 Jan 2009 08:42:33 -0500 From: Phil Shafer X-OriginalArrivalTime: 07 Jan 2009 13:48:23.0805 (UTC) FILETIME=[9BE882D0:01C970CE] MIME-Version: 1.0 Cc: netmod@ietf.org Subject: Re: [netmod] XPath document root X-BeenThere: netmod@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.9 Precedence: list List-Id: NETMOD WG list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: netmod-bounces@ietf.org Errors-To: netmod-bounces@ietf.org Martin Bjorklund writes: >Well, it's up to us to define this. In my proposal, I defined it to >be the event node itself. The reason was consistency with rpc >parameters: All XPath expressions should be relative to the "document" being shipped as payload inside the NETCONF constructs. For RPCs, this means the "root node" is the contents of the element, for notifications, it's the contents of the element, and for configuration data, it's the contents of the element. The only inconsistency is WRT RPC output, where the rpc name does not appear in the payload, so you get: > rpc foo { > input { > leaf a { ... } > leaf b { > must "/a != '1'"; "/foo/a != 1" here, but ... > output { > leaf c { ... } > leaf d { > must "/c != '2'"; this is "/c != 2" instead of "/foo/c". This is consistent within the payload, but is confusing in the YANG, since input has the rpc name and output does not. Thanks, Phil _______________________________________________ netmod mailing list netmod@ietf.org https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/netmod From netmod-bounces@ietf.org Wed Jan 7 06:12:00 2009 Return-Path: X-Original-To: netmod-archive@ietf.org Delivered-To: ietfarch-netmod-archive@core3.amsl.com Received: from [127.0.0.1] (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7ADDA28C10C; Wed, 7 Jan 2009 06:12:00 -0800 (PST) X-Original-To: netmod@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: netmod@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id C019428C10C for ; Wed, 7 Jan 2009 06:11:59 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.055 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.055 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=0.195, BAYES_00=-2.599, HELO_EQ_CZ=0.445, HOST_EQ_CZ=0.904] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 2De74lsrwi5U for ; Wed, 7 Jan 2009 06:11:59 -0800 (PST) Received: from office2.cesnet.cz (office2.cesnet.cz [195.113.144.244]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id E92DC28C0DE for ; Wed, 7 Jan 2009 06:11:58 -0800 (PST) Received: from [172.29.2.201] (asus-gx.lhotka.cesnet.cz [195.113.161.161]) by office2.cesnet.cz (Postfix) with ESMTP id 99C19D800CC; Wed, 7 Jan 2009 15:11:45 +0100 (CET) From: Ladislav Lhotka To: Phil Shafer In-Reply-To: <200901071342.n07DgXaM055613@idle.juniper.net> References: <200901071342.n07DgXaM055613@idle.juniper.net> Organization: CESNET Date: Wed, 07 Jan 2009 15:11:45 +0100 Message-Id: <1231337505.29031.86.camel@missotis> Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Evolution 2.22.3.1 Cc: netmod@ietf.org Subject: Re: [netmod] XPath document root X-BeenThere: netmod@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.9 Precedence: list List-Id: NETMOD WG list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 Sender: netmod-bounces@ietf.org Errors-To: netmod-bounces@ietf.org UGhpbCBTaGFmZXIgcMOtxaFlIHYgU3QgMDcuIDAxLiAyMDA5IHYgMDg6NDIgLTA1MDA6Cj4gTWFy dGluIEJqb3JrbHVuZCB3cml0ZXM6Cj4gPldlbGwsIGl0J3MgdXAgdG8gdXMgdG8gZGVmaW5lIHRo aXMuICBJbiBteSBwcm9wb3NhbCwgSSBkZWZpbmVkIGl0IHRvCj4gPmJlIHRoZSBldmVudCBub2Rl IGl0c2VsZi4gIFRoZSByZWFzb24gd2FzIGNvbnNpc3RlbmN5IHdpdGggcnBjCj4gPnBhcmFtZXRl cnM6Cj4gCj4gQWxsIFhQYXRoIGV4cHJlc3Npb25zIHNob3VsZCBiZSByZWxhdGl2ZSB0byB0aGUg ImRvY3VtZW50Igo+IGJlaW5nIHNoaXBwZWQgYXMgcGF5bG9hZCBpbnNpZGUgdGhlIE5FVENPTkYg Y29uc3RydWN0cy4gIEZvciBSUENzLAo+IHRoaXMgbWVhbnMgdGhlICJyb290IG5vZGUiIGlzIHRo ZSBjb250ZW50cyBvZiB0aGUgPHJwYz4gZWxlbWVudCwKPiBmb3Igbm90aWZpY2F0aW9ucywgaXQn cyB0aGUgY29udGVudHMgb2YgdGhlIDxub3RpY2F0aW9uPiBlbGVtZW50LAo+IGFuZCBmb3IgY29u ZmlndXJhdGlvbiBkYXRhLCBpdCdzIHRoZSBjb250ZW50cyBvZiB0aGUgPGNvbmZpZz4KPiBlbGVt ZW50LgoKSSBhZ3JlZSB3aXRoIHRoaXMuCgpMYWRhCgo+IAo+IFRoZSBvbmx5IGluY29uc2lzdGVu Y3kgaXMgV1JUIFJQQyBvdXRwdXQsIHdoZXJlIHRoZSBycGMgbmFtZSBkb2VzCj4gbm90IGFwcGVh ciBpbiB0aGUgcGF5bG9hZCwgc28geW91IGdldDoKPiAKPiA+ICBycGMgZm9vIHsKPiA+ICAgIGlu cHV0IHsKPiA+ICAgICAgbGVhZiBhIHsgLi4uIH0KPiA+ICAgICAgbGVhZiBiIHsKPiA+ICAgICAg ICBtdXN0ICIvYSAhPSAnMSciOwo+IAo+ICIvZm9vL2EgIT0gMSIgaGVyZSwgYnV0IC4uLgo+IAo+ ID4gICAgb3V0cHV0IHsKPiA+ICAgICAgbGVhZiBjIHsgLi4uIH0KPiA+ICAgICAgbGVhZiBkIHsg Cj4gPiAgICAgICAgbXVzdCAiL2MgIT0gJzInIjsKPiAKPiB0aGlzIGlzICIvYyAhPSAyIiBpbnN0 ZWFkIG9mICIvZm9vL2MiLgo+IAo+IFRoaXMgaXMgY29uc2lzdGVudCB3aXRoaW4gdGhlIHBheWxv YWQsIGJ1dCBpcyBjb25mdXNpbmcgaW4gdGhlIFlBTkcsCj4gc2luY2UgaW5wdXQgaGFzIHRoZSBy cGMgbmFtZSBhbmQgb3V0cHV0IGRvZXMgbm90Lgo+IAo+IFRoYW5rcywKPiAgUGhpbAotLSAKTGFk aXNsYXYgTGhvdGthLCBDRVNORVQKUEdQIEtleSBJRDogRTc0RThDMEMKCl9fX19fX19fX19fX19f X19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fCm5ldG1vZCBtYWlsaW5nIGxpc3QKbmV0 bW9kQGlldGYub3JnCmh0dHBzOi8vd3d3LmlldGYub3JnL21haWxtYW4vbGlzdGluZm8vbmV0bW9k Cg== From netmod-bounces@ietf.org Wed Jan 7 06:17:22 2009 Return-Path: X-Original-To: netmod-archive@ietf.org Delivered-To: ietfarch-netmod-archive@core3.amsl.com Received: from [127.0.0.1] (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 36C9A3A6A03; 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(andy@68.120.68.180 with plain) by smtp127.sbc.mail.sp1.yahoo.com with SMTP; 7 Jan 2009 14:17:04 -0000 X-YMail-OSG: CiOmwhwVM1kOWyzgJPfSxB7w.MiHpjgW81nEPS968dwnASLmA7eiOKKQwkMN8ofVOKtGhVEA9eIPmp4aFLSrhPsT1EWuyQMwOOOx4g28kZOwxauSwBxfqKTL.T4WprODn6JZkLoCQzlvGtXXJ6hYEz_i X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: ymail-3 Message-ID: <4964B95E.8060106@netconfcentral.com> Date: Wed, 07 Jan 2009 06:17:02 -0800 From: Andy Bierman User-Agent: Thunderbird 2.0.0.19 (Windows/20081209) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Ladislav Lhotka References: <000401c970a1$54e7e920$0601a8c0@allison> <20090107.103246.35854703.mbj@tail-f.com> <1231323715.21933.48.camel@missotis> <20090107.134422.113719333.mbj@tail-f.com> <1231335516.29031.78.camel@missotis> In-Reply-To: <1231335516.29031.78.camel@missotis> Cc: netmod@ietf.org Subject: Re: [netmod] XPath document root X-BeenThere: netmod@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.9 Precedence: list List-Id: NETMOD WG list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"; Format="flowed" Sender: netmod-bounces@ietf.org Errors-To: netmod-bounces@ietf.org TGFkaXNsYXYgTGhvdGthIHdyb3RlOgo+IE1hcnRpbiBCam9ya2x1bmQgcMOtxaFlIHYgU3QgMDcu IDAxLiAyMDA5IHYgMTM6NDQgKzAxMDA6Ci4uLgo+IFRoZSBwcm9ibGVtIGFnYWluIGlzIHRoYXQg WFBhdGggd2FzIGRlc2lnbmVkIHRvIGFkZHJlc3MgcGFydHMgb2YgYW4gWE1MCj4gZG9jdW1lbnQg YnV0IGhlcmUgaXQgaXMgaGFyZCB0byB0ZWxsIHdoYXQgdGhlIGRvY3VtZW50IHJlYWxseSBpcy4K PiAKPiBHaXZlbiBhbGwgdGhlIGRldmlhdGlvbnMgZnJvbSBzdGFuZGFyZCBYUGF0aCwgWUFORyBz aG91bGQgcGVyaGFwcyBkZWZpbmUKPiBpdHMgb3duIGV4cHJlc3Npb25zIChZUGF0aD8pIHRvIGF2 b2lkIGNvbmZ1c2lvbi4KPiAKClRoZSBwcm9ibGVtIGlzIHRoYXQgd2UgYXJlIHRyeWluZyB0byB1 c2UgWFBhdGggdG8KbWFrZSBORVRNT0QgbW9yZSB1c2VmdWwgYW5kIGVhc2llciB0byB1c2UsCmFu ZCB0aGVyZSBpcyBub3QgYWx3YXlzIGFncmVlbWVudCBvbiB3aGF0IHRoYXQgbWVhbnMuCgpUaGUg bWFpbiBkeW5hbWljIHNlZW1zIHRvIGJlIHRoZSB2aWV3IHRoYXQgYSBORVRDT05GIGRhdGFiYXNl CmlzIG5vdCBuIFhNTCBkb2N1bWVudCwgc28gdmFyaW91cyBydWxlcyBpbiBYUGF0aCB3aGljaCBz ZWVtCnRvIGdldCBpbiB0aGUgd2F5IGNhbiBiZSBpbXBsZW1lbnRhdGlvbi1kZXBlbmRlbnQgaW5z dGVhZApvZiBzdGFuZGFyZC4gIChFLmcuLCBzZWMuIDUgY2xlYXJseSBzdGF0ZXMgd2hpY2ggbm9k ZSB0eXBlcwpoYXZlIGltcGxlbWVudGF0aW9uLXNwZWNpZmljIG9yZGVyaW5nIGFuZCB3aGljaCBk b24ndC4pCgpJIGFtIHBhcnRpYWxseSBjb25jZXJuZWQgdGhhdCB0aGUgSUVTRyB3aWxsIG5vdCBh Y2NlcHQKZWl0aGVyIE5FVE1PRCdzIGFkYXB0YXRpb24gb2YgWFBhdGggb3Igc29tZXRoaW5nIGVs c2UKY2FsbGVkIFlQYXRoLgoKT25seSBwYXJ0aWFsbHksIGJlY2F1c2UgSSB1bmRlcnN0YW5kIHRo YXQgYXV0b21hdGlvbgppcyB0aGUgd2F5IG9mIHRoZSBmdXR1cmUsIHdoZXRoZXIgdGhlIFhQYXRo IGlzICdwdXJlJyBvciBub3QuCkV2ZXJ5IG1hbmFnZXIgc2hvdWxkIHVuZGVyc3RhbmQgdGhpcy4g IFlvdSByZWFsbHkgd2FudAp5b3VyICdBIHRlYW0nIGRhdGEgbW9kZWwgZGVzaWduZXJzIHB1dHRp bmcgYXMgbXVjaAptYWNoaW5lLXJlYWRhYmxlIHNlbWFudGljcyBpbnRvIHRoZSBZQU5HIGZpbGUg YXMgcG9zc2libGUsCmVzcGVjaWFsbHkgd2hlbiB0aGUgbW9zdCBsaWtlbHkgYWx0ZXJuYXRpdmUg aXMgdG8KaGF2ZSBOIGp1bmlvciBwbGF0Zm9ybSBlbmdpbmVlcnMgZWFjaCBhdHRlbXB0IHRvIGlu dGVycHJldApjb21wbGljYXRlZCBkZXNjcmlwdGlvbiBjbGF1c2VzIGNvcnJlY3RseSBhbmQgY29u c2lzdGVudGx5LgoKQWxsIG9mIHRoZSAnY2hhbmdlcycgdG8gWFBhdGggaGF2ZSBiZWVuIHRvIG1h a2UgaXQgZWFzaWVyCnRvIHVzZSBieSBOTS1PUFMgcGVvcGxlLiAgTG93ZXIgY29tcGxleGl0eSBt ZWFucyBhIGxvd2VyCnJhdGUgb2YgJ3BpbG90IGVycm9ycycgaW50cm9kdWNlZCBpbnRvIHRoZSBt YW5hZ2VkIHN5c3RlbS4KKEkgaG9wZSB0aGUgSUVTRyBzZWVzIGl0IHRoYXQgd2F5LikKCgo+IExh ZGEKCkFuZHkKCl9fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19f Cm5ldG1vZCBtYWlsaW5nIGxpc3QKbmV0bW9kQGlldGYub3JnCmh0dHBzOi8vd3d3LmlldGYub3Jn L21haWxtYW4vbGlzdGluZm8vbmV0bW9kCg== From netmod-bounces@ietf.org Wed Jan 7 06:38:03 2009 Return-Path: X-Original-To: netmod-archive@ietf.org Delivered-To: ietfarch-netmod-archive@core3.amsl.com Received: from [127.0.0.1] (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 405263A6805; Wed, 7 Jan 2009 06:38:03 -0800 (PST) X-Original-To: netmod@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: netmod@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id A96883A6805 for ; Wed, 7 Jan 2009 06:38:02 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.017 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.017 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=0.029, BAYES_00=-2.599, HELO_MISMATCH_COM=0.553] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id f-a4cZ0Wz2mf for ; Wed, 7 Jan 2009 06:38:02 -0800 (PST) Received: from mail.tail-f.com (de-0316.d.ipeer.se [213.180.79.212]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id D51683A684D for ; Wed, 7 Jan 2009 06:38:01 -0800 (PST) Received: from localhost (138.162.241.83.in-addr.dgcsystems.net [83.241.162.138]) by mail.tail-f.com (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id A811876C51F; Wed, 7 Jan 2009 15:37:47 +0100 (CET) Date: Wed, 07 Jan 2009 15:37:47 +0100 (CET) Message-Id: <20090107.153747.97636467.mbj@tail-f.com> To: andy@netconfcentral.com From: Martin Bjorklund In-Reply-To: <4964ADDC.4090400@netconfcentral.com> References: <4964ADDC.4090400@netconfcentral.com> X-Mailer: Mew version 6.0.51 on Emacs 22.2 / Mule 5.0 (SAKAKI) Mime-Version: 1.0 Cc: netmod@ietf.org Subject: Re: [netmod] XPath Data Model vs. YANG Data Model X-BeenThere: netmod@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.9 Precedence: list List-Id: NETMOD WG list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: netmod-bounces@ietf.org Errors-To: netmod-bounces@ietf.org Andy Bierman wrote: > Hi, > > We probably need to include some text on how the XPath data model > defined in section 5 of XPath 1.0 is applied to every > single NETCONF PDU or a NETCONF configuration database. > > Sec. 5 is important because an implementor needs to > figure out what to do for the node tests in sec. 2.3. > None of these tests are really relevant to NETCONF, > and will not likely be supported. > > The one test of interest is text(), this this matches > any leaf content (except type empty?). Since NETMOD > deals with elements only, it is not clear what to > do with this one. With YANG, leaf and leaf-list elements (only) will have text nodes. For example: leaf foo { type string; must "./text() == 'bar'"; } is a (stupid) way to ensure that the leaf 'foo' always has the value 'bar'. > The easiest thing to do is say all the tests except node() > always return false. This would IMO really be a deviation from XPath. text() should be true for the text node of leafs! Since we don't have comments and processing instructions, these tests will obviously never match. /martin _______________________________________________ netmod mailing list netmod@ietf.org https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/netmod From netmod-bounces@ietf.org Wed Jan 7 06:41:53 2009 Return-Path: X-Original-To: netmod-archive@ietf.org Delivered-To: ietfarch-netmod-archive@core3.amsl.com Received: from [127.0.0.1] (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id C232D3A6805; Wed, 7 Jan 2009 06:41:53 -0800 (PST) X-Original-To: netmod@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: netmod@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0D9513A6858 for ; Wed, 7 Jan 2009 06:41:53 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -6.599 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-6.599 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=0.000, BAYES_00=-2.599, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-4] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id VrKlr-IaBBSK for ; Wed, 7 Jan 2009 06:41:52 -0800 (PST) Received: from exprod7og115.obsmtp.com (exprod7ob115.obsmtp.com [64.18.2.216]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 40F053A6805 for ; Wed, 7 Jan 2009 06:41:51 -0800 (PST) Received: from source ([66.129.224.36]) (using TLSv1) by exprod7ob115.postini.com ([64.18.6.12]) with SMTP ID DSNKSWS/IK7P4TsxLYfQaltTDZbk1OTJL8U5@postini.com; Wed, 07 Jan 2009 06:41:39 PST Received: from p-emfe01-sac.jnpr.net (66.129.254.72) by P-EMHUB01-HQ.jnpr.net (172.24.192.35) with Microsoft SMTP Server id 8.1.336.0; Wed, 7 Jan 2009 06:35:42 -0800 Received: from p-emlb02-sac.jnpr.net ([66.129.254.47]) by p-emfe01-sac.jnpr.net with Microsoft SMTPSVC(6.0.3790.3959); Wed, 7 Jan 2009 06:35:41 -0800 Received: from emailsmtp56.jnpr.net ([172.24.60.77]) by p-emlb02-sac.jnpr.net with Microsoft SMTPSVC(6.0.3790.3959); Wed, 7 Jan 2009 06:35:41 -0800 Received: from magenta.juniper.net ([172.17.27.123]) by emailsmtp56.jnpr.net with Microsoft SMTPSVC(6.0.3790.3959); Wed, 7 Jan 2009 06:35:40 -0800 Received: from idle.juniper.net (idleski.juniper.net [172.25.4.26]) by magenta.juniper.net (8.11.3/8.11.3) with ESMTP id n07EZeM67971; Wed, 7 Jan 2009 06:35:40 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from phil@juniper.net) Received: from idle.juniper.net (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by idle.juniper.net (8.13.8/8.13.8) with ESMTP id n07ETqpF056080; Wed, 7 Jan 2009 14:29:52 GMT (envelope-from phil@idle.juniper.net) Message-ID: <200901071429.n07ETqpF056080@idle.juniper.net> To: Andy Bierman In-Reply-To: <4964B95E.8060106@netconfcentral.com> Date: Wed, 7 Jan 2009 09:29:52 -0500 From: Phil Shafer X-OriginalArrivalTime: 07 Jan 2009 14:35:40.0859 (UTC) FILETIME=[36EC98B0:01C970D5] MIME-Version: 1.0 Cc: netmod@ietf.org Subject: Re: [netmod] XPath document root X-BeenThere: netmod@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.9 Precedence: list List-Id: NETMOD WG list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: netmod-bounces@ietf.org Errors-To: netmod-bounces@ietf.org Andy Bierman writes: >The main dynamic seems to be the view that a NETCONF database >is not n XML document, so various rules in XPath which seem >to get in the way can be implementation-dependent instead >of standard. (E.g., sec. 5 clearly states which node types >have implementation-specific ordering and which don't.) Would this be acceptable: YANG's use of XPATH refers to a NETCONF database and the XML document that an implementation generates from it. Where the order of that DB->XML ordering has no impact on the configuration content, the implementation is free to use an ordering that is natural and optimal. XPath expressions should not include dependencies on ordering issues that are not meaningful to the configuration content. The order in which non-key elements appear within a parent element is not specified, allowing implementations to generate this data in a natural and optimal way. No client, server, or XPath expression should depend on the order being fixed. For example, a module may define a list of user with a name leaf as a key, along with a uid, home directory, and shell. Another module may augment this with an expiration time for the account. The only constraint placed on the order in which these elements appear within the user element is that the key must appear first. The order of the other elements, both the initial and augmented leafs, is not defined. Thanks, Phil _______________________________________________ netmod mailing list netmod@ietf.org https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/netmod From netmod-bounces@ietf.org Wed Jan 7 06:44:10 2009 Return-Path: X-Original-To: netmod-archive@ietf.org Delivered-To: ietfarch-netmod-archive@core3.amsl.com Received: from [127.0.0.1] (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id E25193A6805; Wed, 7 Jan 2009 06:44:10 -0800 (PST) X-Original-To: netmod@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: netmod@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 954253A68AC for ; Wed, 7 Jan 2009 06:44:09 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.017 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.017 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=0.029, BAYES_00=-2.599, HELO_MISMATCH_COM=0.553] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 525+iD3996aR for ; Wed, 7 Jan 2009 06:44:09 -0800 (PST) Received: from mail.tail-f.com (de-0316.d.ipeer.se [213.180.79.212]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id D41AD3A6805 for ; Wed, 7 Jan 2009 06:44:08 -0800 (PST) Received: from localhost (138.162.241.83.in-addr.dgcsystems.net [83.241.162.138]) by mail.tail-f.com (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 6612376C51F; Wed, 7 Jan 2009 15:43:55 +0100 (CET) Date: Wed, 07 Jan 2009 15:43:53 +0100 (CET) Message-Id: <20090107.154353.243169569.mbj@tail-f.com> To: lhotka@cesnet.cz From: Martin Bjorklund In-Reply-To: <1231335516.29031.78.camel@missotis> References: <1231323715.21933.48.camel@missotis> <20090107.134422.113719333.mbj@tail-f.com> <1231335516.29031.78.camel@missotis> X-Mailer: Mew version 6.0.51 on Emacs 22.2 / Mule 5.0 (SAKAKI) Mime-Version: 1.0 Cc: netmod@ietf.org Subject: Re: [netmod] XPath document root X-BeenThere: netmod@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.9 Precedence: list List-Id: NETMOD WG list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: netmod-bounces@ietf.org Errors-To: netmod-bounces@ietf.org Ladislav Lhotka wrote: > Given all the deviations from standard XPath, YANG should perhaps define > its own expressions (YPath?) to avoid confusion. I don't agree that we define many deviations from standard XPath. Regarding this particulat issue, the XPath 1.0 spec says: XPath operates on the abstract, logical structure of an XML document, rather than its surface syntax. We must of course specify what the (conceptual) XML document that our XPath expressions operate on look like. Just b/c NETCONF encodes its PDUs in XML does not mean that the instance document that the XPath expressions operate on is the complete NETCONF PDU. /martin _______________________________________________ netmod mailing list netmod@ietf.org https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/netmod From netmod-bounces@ietf.org Wed Jan 7 06:49:08 2009 Return-Path: X-Original-To: netmod-archive@ietf.org Delivered-To: ietfarch-netmod-archive@core3.amsl.com Received: from [127.0.0.1] (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7926F3A6906; Wed, 7 Jan 2009 06:49:08 -0800 (PST) X-Original-To: netmod@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: netmod@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8BCAA3A694D for ; Wed, 7 Jan 2009 06:49:07 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.018 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.018 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=0.028, BAYES_00=-2.599, HELO_MISMATCH_COM=0.553] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id Vhoxyp++XV9s for ; Wed, 7 Jan 2009 06:49:06 -0800 (PST) Received: from mail.tail-f.com (de-0316.d.ipeer.se [213.180.79.212]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id B50F23A6906 for ; Wed, 7 Jan 2009 06:49:06 -0800 (PST) Received: from localhost (138.162.241.83.in-addr.dgcsystems.net [83.241.162.138]) by mail.tail-f.com (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 50BC576C51F; Wed, 7 Jan 2009 15:48:53 +0100 (CET) Date: Wed, 07 Jan 2009 15:48:49 +0100 (CET) Message-Id: <20090107.154849.162704024.mbj@tail-f.com> To: phil@juniper.net From: Martin Bjorklund In-Reply-To: <200901071429.n07ETqpF056080@idle.juniper.net> References: <4964B95E.8060106@netconfcentral.com> <200901071429.n07ETqpF056080@idle.juniper.net> X-Mailer: Mew version 6.0.51 on Emacs 22.2 / Mule 5.0 (SAKAKI) Mime-Version: 1.0 Cc: netmod@ietf.org Subject: Re: [netmod] XPath document root X-BeenThere: netmod@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.9 Precedence: list List-Id: NETMOD WG list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: netmod-bounces@ietf.org Errors-To: netmod-bounces@ietf.org Phil Shafer wrote: > Would this be acceptable: > > The order in which non-key elements appear within a parent element > is not specified, allowing implementations to generate this data > in a natural and optimal way. This would close the door on mapping to XSD. XSD cannot validate such flexible ordering. /martin _______________________________________________ netmod mailing list netmod@ietf.org https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/netmod From netmod-bounces@ietf.org Wed Jan 7 07:38:15 2009 Return-Path: X-Original-To: netmod-archive@ietf.org Delivered-To: ietfarch-netmod-archive@core3.amsl.com Received: from [127.0.0.1] (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3B6383A684D; Wed, 7 Jan 2009 07:38:15 -0800 (PST) X-Original-To: netmod@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: netmod@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6F9723A6882 for ; Wed, 7 Jan 2009 07:38:13 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.058 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.058 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=0.192, BAYES_00=-2.599, HELO_EQ_CZ=0.445, HOST_EQ_CZ=0.904] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id WUUreZBYPRzA for ; Wed, 7 Jan 2009 07:38:12 -0800 (PST) Received: from office2.cesnet.cz (office2.cesnet.cz [195.113.144.244]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9F46F3A684D for ; Wed, 7 Jan 2009 07:38:12 -0800 (PST) Received: from [172.29.2.201] (asus-gx.lhotka.cesnet.cz [195.113.161.161]) by office2.cesnet.cz (Postfix) with ESMTP id BC57CD800CC; Wed, 7 Jan 2009 16:37:58 +0100 (CET) From: Ladislav Lhotka To: Martin Bjorklund In-Reply-To: <20090107.154353.243169569.mbj@tail-f.com> References: <1231323715.21933.48.camel@missotis> <20090107.134422.113719333.mbj@tail-f.com> <1231335516.29031.78.camel@missotis> <20090107.154353.243169569.mbj@tail-f.com> Organization: CESNET Date: Wed, 07 Jan 2009 16:37:59 +0100 Message-Id: <1231342679.29031.143.camel@missotis> Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Evolution 2.22.3.1 Cc: netmod@ietf.org Subject: Re: [netmod] XPath document root X-BeenThere: netmod@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.9 Precedence: list List-Id: NETMOD WG list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 Sender: netmod-bounces@ietf.org Errors-To: netmod-bounces@ietf.org TWFydGluIEJqb3JrbHVuZCBww63FoWUgdiBTdCAwNy4gMDEuIDIwMDkgdiAxNTo0MyArMDEwMDoK PiBMYWRpc2xhdiBMaG90a2EgPGxob3RrYUBjZXNuZXQuY3o+IHdyb3RlOgo+ID4gR2l2ZW4gYWxs IHRoZSBkZXZpYXRpb25zIGZyb20gc3RhbmRhcmQgWFBhdGgsIFlBTkcgc2hvdWxkIHBlcmhhcHMg ZGVmaW5lCj4gPiBpdHMgb3duIGV4cHJlc3Npb25zIChZUGF0aD8pIHRvIGF2b2lkIGNvbmZ1c2lv bi4KPiAKPiBJIGRvbid0IGFncmVlIHRoYXQgd2UgZGVmaW5lIG1hbnkgZGV2aWF0aW9ucyBmcm9t IHN0YW5kYXJkIFhQYXRoLgoKQXBhcnQgZnJvbSB0aGlzIHJvb3Qgbm9kZSBpc3N1ZSwgSSBzZWUg dGhlIHJlZGVmaW5pdGlvbiBvZiBudWxsCm5hbWVzcGFjZSBhcyBhIGRldmlhdGlvbiAob3IgZGly dHkgdHJpY2sgYXQgbGVhc3QpLCBhbmQgdGhlbiB0aGUKcmVzdHJpY3Rpb25zIHdydCBzaWJsaW5n IG9yZGVyIC0gbm8gaW5kZXhpbmcsIHByb2JhYmx5IGFsc28gdGhlCmZvbGxvd2luZy1zaWJsaW5n OjogYW5kIHByZWNlZGluZy1zaWJsaW5nOjogYXhlcywgcG9zaXRpb24oKSBhbmQgbGFzdCgpCmZ1 bmN0aW9ucy4KCk9uIHRoZSBvdGhlciBoYW5kLCB3aXRoIFlQYXRoIHdlIGNvdWxkIGFsc28gZ2V0 IHJpZCBvZiB0aGUgY2Fub25pY2FsCmZvcm1zIG9mIGRhdGF0eXBlcyBhbmQgc2ltcGx5IHdvcmsg ZXZlcnl3aGVyZSB3aXRoIHZhbHVlIHNwYWNlIHZhbHVlcy4KCj4gCj4gUmVnYXJkaW5nIHRoaXMg cGFydGljdWxhdCBpc3N1ZSwgdGhlIFhQYXRoIDEuMCBzcGVjIHNheXM6Cj4gCj4gICAgIFhQYXRo IG9wZXJhdGVzIG9uIHRoZSBhYnN0cmFjdCwgbG9naWNhbCBzdHJ1Y3R1cmUgb2YgYW4gWE1MCj4g ICAgIGRvY3VtZW50LCByYXRoZXIgdGhhbiBpdHMgc3VyZmFjZSBzeW50YXguCgpZZXMsIHRoaXMg bWVhbnMgdGhhdCBpdCBkb2Vzbid0IHdvcmsgd2l0aCBzZXJpYWxpemVkIFhNTCwgYnV0IHRoZSBY TUwKZG9jdW1lbnQgY29uY2VwdCBpcyBub25ldGhlbGVzcyB0aGVyZS4KCj4gCj4gV2UgbXVzdCBv ZiBjb3Vyc2Ugc3BlY2lmeSB3aGF0IHRoZSAoY29uY2VwdHVhbCkgWE1MIGRvY3VtZW50IHRoYXQg b3VyCj4gWFBhdGggZXhwcmVzc2lvbnMgb3BlcmF0ZSBvbiBsb29rIGxpa2UuICBKdXN0IGIvYyBO RVRDT05GIGVuY29kZXMgaXRzCj4gUERVcyBpbiBYTUwgZG9lcyBub3QgbWVhbiB0aGF0IHRoZSBp bnN0YW5jZSBkb2N1bWVudCB0aGF0IHRoZSBYUGF0aAo+IGV4cHJlc3Npb25zIG9wZXJhdGUgb24g aXMgdGhlIGNvbXBsZXRlIE5FVENPTkYgUERVLgoKSSB1bmRlcnN0YW5kIHRoYXQsIGJ1dCBvdXRz aWRlIG9mIFBEVXMgdGhlIG5vdGlvbiBvZiBhbiAiWE1MIGRvY3VtZW50IgppcyBJTU8gc3RpbGwg cXVpdGUgdmFndWUuIEZvciBleGFtcGxlOiBEb2VzIHRoZSBkYXRhc3RvcmUgWE1MIGRvY3VtZW50 CmNvbnRhaW4gdGhlIGVsZW1lbnRzIGZvciBjb25maWd1cmF0aW9uIHZhbHVlcyB0aGF0IHdlcmUg bm90IHNldCBieSB0aGUKbWFuYWdlcj8gV2hhdCBhYm91dCBtdWx0aXBsZSByb290IGVsZW1lbnRz PwoKTGFkYQoKPiAKPiAKPiAvbWFydGluCi0tIApMYWRpc2xhdiBMaG90a2EsIENFU05FVApQR1Ag S2V5IElEOiBFNzRFOEMwQwoKX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19f X19fX19fX18KbmV0bW9kIG1haWxpbmcgbGlzdApuZXRtb2RAaWV0Zi5vcmcKaHR0cHM6Ly93d3cu aWV0Zi5vcmcvbWFpbG1hbi9saXN0aW5mby9uZXRtb2QK From netmod-bounces@ietf.org Wed Jan 7 07:40:48 2009 Return-Path: X-Original-To: netmod-archive@ietf.org Delivered-To: ietfarch-netmod-archive@core3.amsl.com Received: from [127.0.0.1] (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4BF083A684D; Wed, 7 Jan 2009 07:40:48 -0800 (PST) X-Original-To: netmod@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: netmod@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id D695B3A6916 for ; Wed, 7 Jan 2009 07:40:46 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.062 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.062 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=0.188, BAYES_00=-2.599, HELO_EQ_CZ=0.445, HOST_EQ_CZ=0.904] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id AmyD-ARAE4zd for ; Wed, 7 Jan 2009 07:40:46 -0800 (PST) Received: from office2.cesnet.cz (office2.cesnet.cz [195.113.144.244]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 045FB3A684D for ; Wed, 7 Jan 2009 07:40:46 -0800 (PST) Received: from [172.29.2.201] (asus-gx.lhotka.cesnet.cz [195.113.161.161]) by office2.cesnet.cz (Postfix) with ESMTP id BFC73D800CC for ; Wed, 7 Jan 2009 16:40:32 +0100 (CET) From: Ladislav Lhotka To: netmod@ietf.org In-Reply-To: <20090107.154849.162704024.mbj@tail-f.com> References: <4964B95E.8060106@netconfcentral.com> <200901071429.n07ETqpF056080@idle.juniper.net> <20090107.154849.162704024.mbj@tail-f.com> Organization: CESNET Date: Wed, 07 Jan 2009 16:40:33 +0100 Message-Id: <1231342833.29031.145.camel@missotis> Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Evolution 2.22.3.1 Subject: Re: [netmod] XPath document root X-BeenThere: netmod@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.9 Precedence: list List-Id: NETMOD WG list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 Sender: netmod-bounces@ietf.org Errors-To: netmod-bounces@ietf.org TWFydGluIEJqb3JrbHVuZCBww63FoWUgdiBTdCAwNy4gMDEuIDIwMDkgdiAxNTo0OCArMDEwMDoK PiBQaGlsIFNoYWZlciA8cGhpbEBqdW5pcGVyLm5ldD4gd3JvdGU6Cj4gPiBXb3VsZCB0aGlzIGJl IGFjY2VwdGFibGU6Cj4gPiAKPiA+ICAgIFRoZSBvcmRlciBpbiB3aGljaCBub24ta2V5IGVsZW1l bnRzIGFwcGVhciB3aXRoaW4gYSBwYXJlbnQgZWxlbWVudAo+ID4gICAgaXMgbm90IHNwZWNpZmll ZCwgYWxsb3dpbmcgaW1wbGVtZW50YXRpb25zIHRvIGdlbmVyYXRlIHRoaXMgZGF0YQo+ID4gICAg aW4gYSBuYXR1cmFsIGFuZCBvcHRpbWFsIHdheS4KPiAKPiBUaGlzIHdvdWxkIGNsb3NlIHRoZSBk b29yIG9uIG1hcHBpbmcgdG8gWFNELiAgWFNEIGNhbm5vdCB2YWxpZGF0ZSBzdWNoCj4gZmxleGli bGUgb3JkZXJpbmcuCgpYU0QgaXMgbm90IGluIHRoZSBjaGFydGVyLCBzbyBpdCBzaG91bGRuJ3Qg YmUgYSBzaW5lIHF1YSBub24gY29uZGl0aW9uLgoKTGFkYQoKPiAKPiAKPiAvbWFydGluCj4gX19f X19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX18KPiBuZXRtb2QgbWFp bGluZyBsaXN0Cj4gbmV0bW9kQGlldGYub3JnCj4gaHR0cHM6Ly93d3cuaWV0Zi5vcmcvbWFpbG1h bi9saXN0aW5mby9uZXRtb2QKLS0gCkxhZGlzbGF2IExob3RrYSwgQ0VTTkVUClBHUCBLZXkgSUQ6 IEU3NEU4QzBDCgpfX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19f XwpuZXRtb2QgbWFpbGluZyBsaXN0Cm5ldG1vZEBpZXRmLm9yZwpodHRwczovL3d3dy5pZXRmLm9y Zy9tYWlsbWFuL2xpc3RpbmZvL25ldG1vZAo= From netmod-bounces@ietf.org Wed Jan 7 07:46:55 2009 Return-Path: X-Original-To: netmod-archive@ietf.org Delivered-To: ietfarch-netmod-archive@core3.amsl.com Received: from [127.0.0.1] (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id A15293A684D; Wed, 7 Jan 2009 07:46:55 -0800 (PST) X-Original-To: netmod@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: netmod@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id E54513A6A33 for ; Wed, 7 Jan 2009 07:46:53 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.018 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.018 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=0.028, BAYES_00=-2.599, HELO_MISMATCH_COM=0.553] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id MynUYiFXsUP4 for ; Wed, 7 Jan 2009 07:46:53 -0800 (PST) Received: from mail.tail-f.com (de-0316.d.ipeer.se [213.180.79.212]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 299D03A684D for ; Wed, 7 Jan 2009 07:46:53 -0800 (PST) Received: from localhost (138.162.241.83.in-addr.dgcsystems.net [83.241.162.138]) by mail.tail-f.com (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 0397576C51F; Wed, 7 Jan 2009 16:46:39 +0100 (CET) Date: Wed, 07 Jan 2009 16:46:36 +0100 (CET) Message-Id: <20090107.164636.03673997.mbj@tail-f.com> To: lhotka@cesnet.cz From: Martin Bjorklund In-Reply-To: <1231342679.29031.143.camel@missotis> References: <1231335516.29031.78.camel@missotis> <20090107.154353.243169569.mbj@tail-f.com> <1231342679.29031.143.camel@missotis> X-Mailer: Mew version 6.0.51 on Emacs 22.2 / Mule 5.0 (SAKAKI) Mime-Version: 1.0 Cc: netmod@ietf.org Subject: Re: [netmod] XPath document root X-BeenThere: netmod@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.9 Precedence: list List-Id: NETMOD WG list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 Sender: netmod-bounces@ietf.org Errors-To: netmod-bounces@ietf.org TGFkaXNsYXYgTGhvdGthIDxsaG90a2FAY2VzbmV0LmN6PiB3cm90ZToNCj4gTWFydGluIEJqb3Jr bHVuZCBww63FoWUgdiBTdCAwNy4gMDEuIDIwMDkgdiAxNTo0MyArMDEwMDoNCj4gPiBMYWRpc2xh diBMaG90a2EgPGxob3RrYUBjZXNuZXQuY3o+IHdyb3RlOg0KPiA+ID4gR2l2ZW4gYWxsIHRoZSBk ZXZpYXRpb25zIGZyb20gc3RhbmRhcmQgWFBhdGgsIFlBTkcgc2hvdWxkIHBlcmhhcHMgZGVmaW5l DQo+ID4gPiBpdHMgb3duIGV4cHJlc3Npb25zIChZUGF0aD8pIHRvIGF2b2lkIGNvbmZ1c2lvbi4N Cj4gPiANCj4gPiBJIGRvbid0IGFncmVlIHRoYXQgd2UgZGVmaW5lIG1hbnkgZGV2aWF0aW9ucyBm cm9tIHN0YW5kYXJkIFhQYXRoLg0KPiANCj4gQXBhcnQgZnJvbSB0aGlzIHJvb3Qgbm9kZSBpc3N1 ZSwgSSBzZWUgdGhlIHJlZGVmaW5pdGlvbiBvZiBudWxsDQo+IG5hbWVzcGFjZSBhcyBhIGRldmlh dGlvbiAob3IgZGlydHkgdHJpY2sgYXQgbGVhc3QpLCBhbmQgdGhlbiB0aGUNCj4gcmVzdHJpY3Rp b25zIHdydCBzaWJsaW5nIG9yZGVyIC0gbm8gaW5kZXhpbmcsIHByb2JhYmx5IGFsc28gdGhlDQo+ IGZvbGxvd2luZy1zaWJsaW5nOjogYW5kIHByZWNlZGluZy1zaWJsaW5nOjogYXhlcywgcG9zaXRp b24oKSBhbmQgbGFzdCgpDQo+IGZ1bmN0aW9ucy4NCg0KQnV0IHdlJ3JlIG5vdCBzYXlpbmcgdGhh dCB0aGVzZSBmdW5jdGlvbnMgd29uJ3Qgd29yaywgd2UncmUganVzdA0Kc2F5aW5nIHRoYXQgc2lu Y2UgdGhlIG9yZGVyIGlzIGltcGxlbWVudGF0aW9uIGRlcGVuZGFudCwgeW91IGNhbm5vdA0KcmVs eSBvbiB0aGUgb3JkZXIgYmVpbmcgdGhlIHNhbWUgYWNjcm9zcyBpbXBsZW1lbnRhdGlvbnMuDQoN CklNTywgdGhlIG9ubHkgdGhpbmcgdGhhdCBpcyBhIGJpdCB1bmNsZWFyIGlzIGlmIFhQYXRoIGFs bG93cyBtdWx0aXBsZQ0Kbm9kZXMgYXMgY2hpbGRyZW4gdG8gdGhlIHJvb3Qgbm9kZS4NCg0KDQov bWFydGluDQpfX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fXwpu ZXRtb2QgbWFpbGluZyBsaXN0Cm5ldG1vZEBpZXRmLm9yZwpodHRwczovL3d3dy5pZXRmLm9yZy9t YWlsbWFuL2xpc3RpbmZvL25ldG1vZAo= From netmod-bounces@ietf.org Wed Jan 7 08:11:58 2009 Return-Path: X-Original-To: netmod-archive@ietf.org Delivered-To: ietfarch-netmod-archive@core3.amsl.com Received: from [127.0.0.1] (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8B7C83A68CE; 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Wed, 7 Jan 2009 08:08:30 -0800 Received: from p-emlb02-sac.jnpr.net ([66.129.254.47]) by p-emfe01-sac.jnpr.net with Microsoft SMTPSVC(6.0.3790.3959); Wed, 7 Jan 2009 08:08:29 -0800 Received: from emailsmtp55.jnpr.net ([172.24.18.132]) by p-emlb02-sac.jnpr.net with Microsoft SMTPSVC(6.0.3790.3959); Wed, 7 Jan 2009 08:08:28 -0800 Received: from magenta.juniper.net ([172.17.27.123]) by emailsmtp55.jnpr.net with Microsoft SMTPSVC(6.0.3790.1830); Wed, 7 Jan 2009 08:08:28 -0800 Received: from idle.juniper.net (idleski.juniper.net [172.25.4.26]) by magenta.juniper.net (8.11.3/8.11.3) with ESMTP id n07G8RM07669; Wed, 7 Jan 2009 08:08:27 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from phil@juniper.net) Received: from idle.juniper.net (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by idle.juniper.net (8.13.8/8.13.8) with ESMTP id n07G2dHE056698; Wed, 7 Jan 2009 16:02:39 GMT (envelope-from phil@idle.juniper.net) Message-ID: <200901071602.n07G2dHE056698@idle.juniper.net> To: Martin Bjorklund In-Reply-To: <20090107.154849.162704024.mbj@tail-f.com> Date: Wed, 7 Jan 2009 11:02:39 -0500 From: Phil Shafer X-OriginalArrivalTime: 07 Jan 2009 16:08:28.0339 (UTC) FILETIME=[2D66A030:01C970E2] MIME-Version: 1.0 Cc: netmod@ietf.org Subject: Re: [netmod] XPath document root X-BeenThere: netmod@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.9 Precedence: list List-Id: NETMOD WG list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: netmod-bounces@ietf.org Errors-To: netmod-bounces@ietf.org Martin Bjorklund writes: >This would close the door on mapping to XSD. XSD cannot validate such >flexible ordering. It's a trade off; we trade flexibility for ordering with a loss of the {0,1} test. This is what we did for JUNOS and it's worked fine. Thanks, Phil _______________________________________________ netmod mailing list netmod@ietf.org https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/netmod From netmod-bounces@ietf.org Wed Jan 7 08:15:29 2009 Return-Path: X-Original-To: netmod-archive@ietf.org Delivered-To: ietfarch-netmod-archive@core3.amsl.com Received: from [127.0.0.1] (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id C048A3A6A6F; Wed, 7 Jan 2009 08:15:29 -0800 (PST) X-Original-To: netmod@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: netmod@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1798C3A6A72 for ; Wed, 7 Jan 2009 08:15:29 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -0.321 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-0.321 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=-0.560, BAYES_05=-1.11, HELO_EQ_CZ=0.445, HOST_EQ_CZ=0.904] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id VjzYgoHCMpOr for ; Wed, 7 Jan 2009 08:15:28 -0800 (PST) Received: from office2.cesnet.cz (office2.cesnet.cz [195.113.144.244]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 501DE3A6A6E for ; Wed, 7 Jan 2009 08:15:28 -0800 (PST) Received: from [172.29.2.201] (asus-gx.lhotka.cesnet.cz [195.113.161.161]) by office2.cesnet.cz (Postfix) with ESMTP id E84B7D800CC; Wed, 7 Jan 2009 17:15:14 +0100 (CET) From: Ladislav Lhotka To: Martin Bjorklund In-Reply-To: <20090107.164636.03673997.mbj@tail-f.com> References: <1231335516.29031.78.camel@missotis> <20090107.154353.243169569.mbj@tail-f.com> <1231342679.29031.143.camel@missotis> <20090107.164636.03673997.mbj@tail-f.com> Organization: CESNET Date: Wed, 07 Jan 2009 17:15:15 +0100 Message-Id: <1231344915.29031.153.camel@missotis> Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Evolution 2.22.3.1 Cc: netmod@ietf.org Subject: Re: [netmod] XPath document root X-BeenThere: netmod@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.9 Precedence: list List-Id: NETMOD WG list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 Sender: netmod-bounces@ietf.org Errors-To: netmod-bounces@ietf.org TWFydGluIEJqb3JrbHVuZCBww63FoWUgdiBTdCAwNy4gMDEuIDIwMDkgdiAxNjo0NiArMDEwMDoK Cj4gCj4gSU1PLCB0aGUgb25seSB0aGluZyB0aGF0IGlzIGEgYml0IHVuY2xlYXIgaXMgaWYgWFBh dGggYWxsb3dzIG11bHRpcGxlCj4gbm9kZXMgYXMgY2hpbGRyZW4gdG8gdGhlIHJvb3Qgbm9kZS4K Ckl0IHN1cmUgZG9lcywgY29tbWVudHMsIFBJcyAtIGJ1dCBvbmx5IG9uZSBlbGVtZW50IG5vZGUu CgpMYWRhCgo+IAo+IAo+IC9tYXJ0aW4KLS0gCkxhZGlzbGF2IExob3RrYSwgQ0VTTkVUClBHUCBL ZXkgSUQ6IEU3NEU4QzBDCgpfX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19f X19fX19fXwpuZXRtb2QgbWFpbGluZyBsaXN0Cm5ldG1vZEBpZXRmLm9yZwpodHRwczovL3d3dy5p ZXRmLm9yZy9tYWlsbWFuL2xpc3RpbmZvL25ldG1vZAo= From netmod-bounces@ietf.org Wed Jan 7 08:34:19 2009 Return-Path: X-Original-To: netmod-archive@ietf.org Delivered-To: ietfarch-netmod-archive@core3.amsl.com Received: from [127.0.0.1] (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 04AE03A68AC; Wed, 7 Jan 2009 08:34:19 -0800 (PST) X-Original-To: netmod@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: netmod@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8FA533A68AC for ; Wed, 7 Jan 2009 08:34:17 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.055 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.055 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=0.195, BAYES_00=-2.599, HELO_EQ_CZ=0.445, HOST_EQ_CZ=0.904] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id PPVDbxUpAXjg for ; Wed, 7 Jan 2009 08:34:16 -0800 (PST) Received: from office2.cesnet.cz (office2.cesnet.cz [195.113.144.244]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id AECC13A6843 for ; Wed, 7 Jan 2009 08:34:16 -0800 (PST) Received: from [172.29.2.201] (asus-gx.lhotka.cesnet.cz [195.113.161.161]) by office2.cesnet.cz (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5DA25D800CC; Wed, 7 Jan 2009 17:34:03 +0100 (CET) From: Ladislav Lhotka To: Phil Shafer In-Reply-To: <200901071429.n07ETqpF056080@idle.juniper.net> References: <200901071429.n07ETqpF056080@idle.juniper.net> Organization: CESNET Date: Wed, 07 Jan 2009 17:34:04 +0100 Message-Id: <1231346044.29031.166.camel@missotis> Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Evolution 2.22.3.1 Cc: netmod@ietf.org Subject: Re: [netmod] XPath document root X-BeenThere: netmod@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.9 Precedence: list List-Id: NETMOD WG list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 Sender: netmod-bounces@ietf.org Errors-To: netmod-bounces@ietf.org UGhpbCBTaGFmZXIgcMOtxaFlIHYgU3QgMDcuIDAxLiAyMDA5IHYgMDk6MjkgLTA1MDA6Cj4gQW5k eSBCaWVybWFuIHdyaXRlczoKPiA+VGhlIG1haW4gZHluYW1pYyBzZWVtcyB0byBiZSB0aGUgdmll dyB0aGF0IGEgTkVUQ09ORiBkYXRhYmFzZQo+ID5pcyBub3QgbiBYTUwgZG9jdW1lbnQsIHNvIHZh cmlvdXMgcnVsZXMgaW4gWFBhdGggd2hpY2ggc2VlbQo+ID50byBnZXQgaW4gdGhlIHdheSBjYW4g YmUgaW1wbGVtZW50YXRpb24tZGVwZW5kZW50IGluc3RlYWQKPiA+b2Ygc3RhbmRhcmQuICAoRS5n Liwgc2VjLiA1IGNsZWFybHkgc3RhdGVzIHdoaWNoIG5vZGUgdHlwZXMKPiA+aGF2ZSBpbXBsZW1l bnRhdGlvbi1zcGVjaWZpYyBvcmRlcmluZyBhbmQgd2hpY2ggZG9uJ3QuKQo+IAo+IFdvdWxkIHRo aXMgYmUgYWNjZXB0YWJsZToKPiAKPiAgICBZQU5HJ3MgdXNlIG9mIFhQQVRIIHJlZmVycyB0byBh IE5FVENPTkYgZGF0YWJhc2UgYW5kIHRoZSBYTUwKPiAgICBkb2N1bWVudCB0aGF0IGFuIGltcGxl bWVudGF0aW9uIGdlbmVyYXRlcyBmcm9tIGl0LiAgV2hlcmUgdGhlCgpOb3RpZmljYXRpb25zIGFu ZCBSUENzIGFyZSBub3QgcGFydCBvZiB0aGlzIGRhdGFiYXNlLgoKPiAgICBvcmRlciBvZiB0aGF0 IERCLT5YTUwgb3JkZXJpbmcgaGFzIG5vIGltcGFjdCBvbiB0aGUgY29uZmlndXJhdGlvbgo+ICAg IGNvbnRlbnQsIHRoZSBpbXBsZW1lbnRhdGlvbiBpcyBmcmVlIHRvIHVzZSBhbiBvcmRlcmluZyB0 aGF0IGlzCj4gICAgbmF0dXJhbCBhbmQgb3B0aW1hbC4gIFhQYXRoIGV4cHJlc3Npb25zIHNob3Vs ZCBub3QgaW5jbHVkZQoKRG9lcyBpdCBhZGRyZXNzIG9yZGVyaW5nIGluIGJvdGggaW50ZXJuYWwg ZGF0YXN0b3JlcyBhbmQgUERVcz8KCj4gICAgZGVwZW5kZW5jaWVzIG9uIG9yZGVyaW5nIGlzc3Vl cyB0aGF0IGFyZSBub3QgbWVhbmluZ2Z1bCB0byB0aGUKPiAgICBjb25maWd1cmF0aW9uIGNvbnRl bnQuCj4gCj4gICAgVGhlIG9yZGVyIGluIHdoaWNoIG5vbi1rZXkgZWxlbWVudHMgYXBwZWFyIHdp dGhpbiBhIHBhcmVudCBlbGVtZW50Cj4gICAgaXMgbm90IHNwZWNpZmllZCwgYWxsb3dpbmcgaW1w bGVtZW50YXRpb25zIHRvIGdlbmVyYXRlIHRoaXMgZGF0YQo+ICAgIGluIGEgbmF0dXJhbCBhbmQg b3B0aW1hbCB3YXkuICBObyBjbGllbnQsIHNlcnZlciwgb3IgWFBhdGgKPiAgICBleHByZXNzaW9u IHNob3VsZCBkZXBlbmQgb24gdGhlIG9yZGVyIGJlaW5nIGZpeGVkLgoKRXhjZXB0IHBlcmhhcHMg bGlzdCBpdGVtcyBvcmRlcmVkIGJ5IHVzZXIuCgo+IAo+ICAgIEZvciBleGFtcGxlLCBhIG1vZHVs ZSBtYXkgZGVmaW5lIGEgbGlzdCBvZiB1c2VyIHdpdGggYSBuYW1lIGxlYWYKPiAgICBhcyBhIGtl eSwgYWxvbmcgd2l0aCBhIHVpZCwgaG9tZSBkaXJlY3RvcnksIGFuZCBzaGVsbC4gIEFub3RoZXIK PiAgICBtb2R1bGUgbWF5IGF1Z21lbnQgdGhpcyB3aXRoIGFuIGV4cGlyYXRpb24gdGltZSBmb3Ig dGhlIGFjY291bnQuCj4gICAgVGhlIG9ubHkgY29uc3RyYWludCBwbGFjZWQgb24gdGhlIG9yZGVy IGluIHdoaWNoIHRoZXNlIGVsZW1lbnRzCj4gICAgYXBwZWFyIHdpdGhpbiB0aGUgdXNlciBlbGVt ZW50IGlzIHRoYXQgdGhlIGtleSBtdXN0IGFwcGVhciBmaXJzdC4KPiAgICBUaGUgb3JkZXIgb2Yg dGhlIG90aGVyIGVsZW1lbnRzLCBib3RoIHRoZSBpbml0aWFsIGFuZCBhdWdtZW50ZWQKPiAgICBs ZWFmcywgaXMgbm90IGRlZmluZWQuCgpIb3cgYWJvdXQgdGhpczoKCmxlYWYgYSB7IC4uLiB9Cmxl YWYtbGlzdCBiIHsgLi4uIH0KCklzIDxiPi4uLjwvYj48YT4uLi48L2E+PGI+Li4uPC9iPiBsZWdh bCBvciBub3Q/CgpMYWRhCgotLSAKTGFkaXNsYXYgTGhvdGthLCBDRVNORVQKUEdQIEtleSBJRDog RTc0RThDMEMKCl9fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19f Cm5ldG1vZCBtYWlsaW5nIGxpc3QKbmV0bW9kQGlldGYub3JnCmh0dHBzOi8vd3d3LmlldGYub3Jn L21haWxtYW4vbGlzdGluZm8vbmV0bW9kCg== From netmod-bounces@ietf.org Wed Jan 7 08:37:19 2009 Return-Path: X-Original-To: netmod-archive@ietf.org Delivered-To: ietfarch-netmod-archive@core3.amsl.com Received: from [127.0.0.1] (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4B0B13A6843; Wed, 7 Jan 2009 08:37:19 -0800 (PST) X-Original-To: netmod@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: netmod@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3C1523A68E7 for ; Wed, 7 Jan 2009 08:37:18 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.158 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.158 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=0.441, BAYES_00=-2.599] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id LdVhxUg8vhg9 for ; Wed, 7 Jan 2009 08:37:17 -0800 (PST) Received: from mk-outboundfilter-6.mail.uk.tiscali.com (mk-outboundfilter-6.mail.uk.tiscali.com [212.74.114.14]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id E780A3A6843 for ; Wed, 7 Jan 2009 08:37:16 -0800 (PST) X-Trace: 66231373/mk-outboundfilter-6.mail.uk.tiscali.com/PIPEX/$PIPEX-ACCEPTED/pipex-customers/62.188.100.247/None/cfinss@dial.pipex.com X-SBRS: None X-RemoteIP: 62.188.100.247 X-IP-MAIL-FROM: cfinss@dial.pipex.com X-MUA: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1106Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 X-IP-BHB: Once X-IronPort-Anti-Spam-Filtered: true X-IronPort-Anti-Spam-Result: AjQFADdpZEk+vGT3/2dsb2JhbACDQ0CJTcJOBoVv X-IronPort-AV: E=Sophos;i="4.37,226,1231113600"; d="scan'208";a="66231373" X-IP-Direction: IN Received: from 1cust247.tnt1.lnd9.gbr.da.uu.net (HELO allison) ([62.188.100.247]) by smtp.pipex.tiscali.co.uk with SMTP; 07 Jan 2009 16:36:58 +0000 Message-ID: <013101c970dd$bffa3920$0601a8c0@allison> From: "tom.petch" To: "Andy Bierman" , "NETMOD Working Group" References: <4964ADDC.4090400@netconfcentral.com> Date: Wed, 7 Jan 2009 16:34:09 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1106 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Subject: Re: [netmod] XPath Data Model vs. YANG Data Model X-BeenThere: netmod@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.9 Precedence: list Reply-To: "tom.petch" List-Id: NETMOD WG list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: netmod-bounces@ietf.org Errors-To: netmod-bounces@ietf.org ----- Original Message ----- From: "Andy Bierman" To: "NETMOD Working Group" Sent: Wednesday, January 07, 2009 2:27 PM Subject: [netmod] XPath Data Model vs. YANG Data Model > We probably need to include some text on how the XPath data model > defined in section 5 of XPath 1.0 is applied to every > single NETCONF PDU or a NETCONF configuration database. > Yes, I think that that is the crux of the issue, with the complication that a data model in yang is not an XML document. I am unclear just how far they diverge but in so far as there is not a one to one (reversible) mapping, then the application of XPath 1.0 to yang may not be determinate; which is a topic that has come up several times, in one form of another, eg in having a canonical order or not. There may be several parts of XPath that we need to excise, either because they make no sense or because they are too complex to make sense of; which is perhaps what the rest of what Andy is saying is, although I need more time to think about this. Tom Petch > Sec. 5 is important because an implementor needs to > figure out what to do for the node tests in sec. 2.3. > None of these tests are really relevant to NETCONF, > and will not likely be supported. > > The one test of interest is text(), this this matches > any leaf content (except type empty?). Since NETMOD > deals with elements only, it is not clear what to > do with this one. > > The easiest thing to do is say all the tests except node() > always return false. (XPath defines node() to match anything.) > > comment() > text() > processing-instruction() > node() > > The namespace and attribute axis are probably going to > be empty in NETMOD implementations as well. > > Andy > _______________________________________________ netmod mailing list netmod@ietf.org https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/netmod From netmod-bounces@ietf.org Wed Jan 7 08:37:19 2009 Return-Path: X-Original-To: netmod-archive@ietf.org Delivered-To: ietfarch-netmod-archive@core3.amsl.com Received: from [127.0.0.1] (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 939013A68FE; Wed, 7 Jan 2009 08:37:19 -0800 (PST) X-Original-To: netmod@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: netmod@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2BCB13A6843 for ; Wed, 7 Jan 2009 08:37:19 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.172 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.172 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=0.427, BAYES_00=-2.599] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id QVtV9BvH+pqg for ; Wed, 7 Jan 2009 08:37:18 -0800 (PST) Received: from mk-outboundfilter-6.mail.uk.tiscali.com (mk-outboundfilter-6.mail.uk.tiscali.com [212.74.114.14]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id B40553A68AC for ; Wed, 7 Jan 2009 08:37:17 -0800 (PST) X-Trace: 66231391/mk-outboundfilter-6.mail.uk.tiscali.com/PIPEX/$PIPEX-ACCEPTED/pipex-customers/62.188.100.247/None/cfinss@dial.pipex.com X-SBRS: None X-RemoteIP: 62.188.100.247 X-IP-MAIL-FROM: cfinss@dial.pipex.com X-MUA: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1106Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 X-IP-BHB: Once X-IronPort-Anti-Spam-Filtered: true X-IronPort-Anti-Spam-Result: AjQFADdpZEk+vGT3/2dsb2JhbACDQ0CJTcJOBoVv X-IronPort-AV: E=Sophos;i="4.37,226,1231113600"; d="scan'208";a="66231391" X-IP-Direction: IN Received: from 1cust247.tnt1.lnd9.gbr.da.uu.net (HELO allison) ([62.188.100.247]) by smtp.pipex.tiscali.co.uk with SMTP; 07 Jan 2009 16:37:01 +0000 Message-ID: <013201c970dd$c149eaa0$0601a8c0@allison> From: "tom.petch" To: "Ladislav Lhotka" , "Phil Shafer" References: <200901071342.n07DgXaM055613@idle.juniper.net> <1231337505.29031.86.camel@missotis> Date: Wed, 7 Jan 2009 16:35:48 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1106 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Cc: netmod@ietf.org Subject: Re: [netmod] XPath document root X-BeenThere: netmod@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.9 Precedence: list Reply-To: "tom.petch" List-Id: NETMOD WG list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 Sender: netmod-bounces@ietf.org Errors-To: netmod-bounces@ietf.org LS0tIE9yaWdpbmFsIE1lc3NhZ2UgLS0tLS0KRnJvbTogIkxhZGlzbGF2IExob3RrYSIgPGxob3Rr YUBjZXNuZXQuY3o+ClRvOiAiUGhpbCBTaGFmZXIiIDxwaGlsQGp1bmlwZXIubmV0PgpDYzogPG5l dG1vZEBpZXRmLm9yZz4KU2VudDogV2VkbmVzZGF5LCBKYW51YXJ5IDA3LCAyMDA5IDM6MTEgUE0K U3ViamVjdDogUmU6IFtuZXRtb2RdIFhQYXRoIGRvY3VtZW50IHJvb3QKCj4gUGhpbCBTaGFmZXIg cMOtxaFlIHYgU3QgMDcuIDAxLiAyMDA5IHYgMDg6NDIgLTA1MDA6Cj4gPiBNYXJ0aW4gQmpvcmts dW5kIHdyaXRlczoKPiA+ID5XZWxsLCBpdCdzIHVwIHRvIHVzIHRvIGRlZmluZSB0aGlzLiAgSW4g bXkgcHJvcG9zYWwsIEkgZGVmaW5lZCBpdCB0bwo+ID4gPmJlIHRoZSBldmVudCBub2RlIGl0c2Vs Zi4gIFRoZSByZWFzb24gd2FzIGNvbnNpc3RlbmN5IHdpdGggcnBjCj4gPiA+cGFyYW1ldGVyczoK PiA+Cj4gPiBBbGwgWFBhdGggZXhwcmVzc2lvbnMgc2hvdWxkIGJlIHJlbGF0aXZlIHRvIHRoZSAi ZG9jdW1lbnQiCj4gPiBiZWluZyBzaGlwcGVkIGFzIHBheWxvYWQgaW5zaWRlIHRoZSBORVRDT05G IGNvbnN0cnVjdHMuICBGb3IgUlBDcywKPiA+IHRoaXMgbWVhbnMgdGhlICJyb290IG5vZGUiIGlz IHRoZSBjb250ZW50cyBvZiB0aGUgPHJwYz4gZWxlbWVudCwKPiA+IGZvciBub3RpZmljYXRpb25z LCBpdCdzIHRoZSBjb250ZW50cyBvZiB0aGUgPG5vdGljYXRpb24+IGVsZW1lbnQsCj4gPiBhbmQg Zm9yIGNvbmZpZ3VyYXRpb24gZGF0YSwgaXQncyB0aGUgY29udGVudHMgb2YgdGhlIDxjb25maWc+ Cj4gPiBlbGVtZW50Lgo+Cj4gSSBhZ3JlZSB3aXRoIHRoaXMuCj4KCldlZWxsbCBzb3J0IG9mLiAg WFBhdGggMS4wIHMuNSAod2hpY2ggSSBxdW90ZWQpIGRvZXMgY2xlYXJseSBkaWZmZXJlbnRpYXRl IHJvb3QKbm9kZSBmcm9tIGVsZW1lbnQgbm9kZSBzbyBJIHByZWZlcnJlZCBMYWRhJ3MgZWFybGll ciBjaGFyYWN0ZXJpc2F0aW9uCidUaGUgcm9vdCBub2RlIG9mIFhQYXRoIDEgaXMgYSB2aXJ0dWFs CmVudGl0eSB0aGF0IGRvZXMgbm90IGFwcGVhciBpbiB0aGUgWE1MIGRvY3VtZW50IGF0IGFsbC4n ICBYUGF0aCAxLjAgaGFzIGFuCmFzc29jaWF0ZWQgZGF0YW1vZGVsIChpbiBzLjUpLiAgU29tZSBw YXJ0cyBvZiBYUGF0aCAxLjAgSSBhbSBoYXBweSB0byBiZW5kCihmbG9hdGluZyBwb2ludDotKSBi dXQgSSB0aGluayB0aGUgZGF0YW1vZGVsIGZ1bmRhbWVudGFsIHRvIGl0cyB3b3JraW5nIGFuZCB0 aGF0CndlIG5lZWQgdG8gYmUgdmVyeSBjYXJlZnVsIGFib3V0IG1vZGlmeWluZyBpdC4KCkJ1dCBJ IGRvIHNlZSB1cyBhcyBmcmVlIHRvIGRlZmluZSB3aGF0IG91ciAnWE1MIGRvY3VtZW50JyBpcyBh bmQgdGhlbiBwbGFjZSB0aGUKcm9vdCBub2RlIG9mIHRoZSBYUGF0aCBkYXRhbW9kZWwgaW52aXNp Ymx5IGFib3ZlIHRoZSBkb2N1bWVudCBub2RlLiAgT3IgZWxzZSB3ZQptYWtlIGl0IGNsZWFyIHRo YXQgd2UgYXJlIGRlcGFydGluZyBmcm9tIHRoZSBsYW5ndWFnZSBvZiBYUGF0aCAxLjAgd2l0aCBj b3Bpb3VzCmV4YW1wbGVzIHNvIHRoYXQgb3VyIGNob2ljZSBvZiB0ZXJtcyBiZWNvbWVzIGltbWF0 ZXJpYWwuCgpJbiBwYXNzaW5nLCBSRkM1Mjc3IHNheXMKCiJBbiBldmVudCBub3RpZmljYXRpb24g aXMgYSBjb21wbGV0ZSBhbmQgd2VsbC1mb3JtZWQgWE1MCiAgICAgIGRvY3VtZW50LiAgTm90ZSB0 aGF0IDxub3RpZmljYXRpb24+IGlzIG5vdCBhIFJlbW90ZSBQcm9jZWR1cmUgQ2FsbAogICAgICAo UlBDKSBtZXRob2QgYnV0IHJhdGhlciB0aGUgdG9wLWxldmVsIGVsZW1lbnQgaWRlbnRpZnlpbmcg dGhlIG9uZS0KICAgICAgd2F5IG1lc3NhZ2UgYXMgYSBub3RpZmljYXRpb24uIgoKd2hpY2ggZm9y IG1lIHBsYWNlcyB0aGUgaW52aXNpYmxlIHJvb3QgYWJvdmUgPG5vdGlmaWNhdGlvbj4KClRvbSBQ ZXRjaAoKPiBMYWRhCj4KPiA+Cj4gPiBUaGUgb25seSBpbmNvbnNpc3RlbmN5IGlzIFdSVCBSUEMg b3V0cHV0LCB3aGVyZSB0aGUgcnBjIG5hbWUgZG9lcwo+ID4gbm90IGFwcGVhciBpbiB0aGUgcGF5 bG9hZCwgc28geW91IGdldDoKPiA+Cj4gPiA+ICBycGMgZm9vIHsKPiA+ID4gICAgaW5wdXQgewo+ ID4gPiAgICAgIGxlYWYgYSB7IC4uLiB9Cj4gPiA+ICAgICAgbGVhZiBiIHsKPiA+ID4gICAgICAg IG11c3QgIi9hICE9ICcxJyI7Cj4gPgo+ID4gIi9mb28vYSAhPSAxIiBoZXJlLCBidXQgLi4uCj4g Pgo+ID4gPiAgICBvdXRwdXQgewo+ID4gPiAgICAgIGxlYWYgYyB7IC4uLiB9Cj4gPiA+ICAgICAg bGVhZiBkIHsKPiA+ID4gICAgICAgIG11c3QgIi9jICE9ICcyJyI7Cj4gPgo+ID4gdGhpcyBpcyAi L2MgIT0gMiIgaW5zdGVhZCBvZiAiL2Zvby9jIi4KPiA+Cj4gPiBUaGlzIGlzIGNvbnNpc3RlbnQg d2l0aGluIHRoZSBwYXlsb2FkLCBidXQgaXMgY29uZnVzaW5nIGluIHRoZSBZQU5HLAo+ID4gc2lu Y2UgaW5wdXQgaGFzIHRoZSBycGMgbmFtZSBhbmQgb3V0cHV0IGRvZXMgbm90Lgo+ID4KPiA+IFRo YW5rcywKPiA+ICBQaGlsCj4gLS0KPiBMYWRpc2xhdiBMaG90a2EsIENFU05FVAo+IFBHUCBLZXkg SUQ6IEU3NEU4QzBDCj4KPiBfX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19f X19fX19fXwo+IG5ldG1vZCBtYWlsaW5nIGxpc3QKPiBuZXRtb2RAaWV0Zi5vcmcKPiBodHRwczov L3d3dy5pZXRmLm9yZy9tYWlsbWFuL2xpc3RpbmZvL25ldG1vZAo+CgpfX19fX19fX19fX19fX19f X19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fXwpuZXRtb2QgbWFpbGluZyBsaXN0Cm5ldG1v ZEBpZXRmLm9yZwpodHRwczovL3d3dy5pZXRmLm9yZy9tYWlsbWFuL2xpc3RpbmZvL25ldG1vZAo= From netmod-bounces@ietf.org Wed Jan 7 08:51:59 2009 Return-Path: X-Original-To: netmod-archive@ietf.org Delivered-To: ietfarch-netmod-archive@core3.amsl.com Received: from [127.0.0.1] (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id A20483A6A7B; 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(andy@68.120.68.180 with plain) by smtp118.sbc.mail.sp1.yahoo.com with SMTP; 7 Jan 2009 16:51:43 -0000 X-YMail-OSG: bW.NouIVM1m8pwlSQQoj0l7A_OH31kdecfTgRR0NTy4uBdXW6L87TOCWk_qzbJCbcwvlg3E1CxUToLZIQ3qTxa73jVetd52PV67G_Qt8bx4FGK_wnClByugxVVhkl.6coZm2BQ_trvJb.NetV0MYL2wM X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: ymail-3 Message-ID: <4964DD9C.5040209@netconfcentral.com> Date: Wed, 07 Jan 2009 08:51:40 -0800 From: Andy Bierman User-Agent: Thunderbird 2.0.0.19 (Windows/20081209) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Ladislav Lhotka References: <1231335516.29031.78.camel@missotis> <20090107.154353.243169569.mbj@tail-f.com> <1231342679.29031.143.camel@missotis> <20090107.164636.03673997.mbj@tail-f.com> <1231344915.29031.153.camel@missotis> In-Reply-To: <1231344915.29031.153.camel@missotis> Cc: netmod@ietf.org Subject: Re: [netmod] XPath document root X-BeenThere: netmod@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.9 Precedence: list List-Id: NETMOD WG list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"; Format="flowed" Sender: netmod-bounces@ietf.org Errors-To: netmod-bounces@ietf.org TGFkaXNsYXYgTGhvdGthIHdyb3RlOgo+IE1hcnRpbiBCam9ya2x1bmQgcMOtxaFlIHYgU3QgMDcu IDAxLiAyMDA5IHYgMTY6NDYgKzAxMDA6Cj4gCj4+IElNTywgdGhlIG9ubHkgdGhpbmcgdGhhdCBp cyBhIGJpdCB1bmNsZWFyIGlzIGlmIFhQYXRoIGFsbG93cyBtdWx0aXBsZQo+PiBub2RlcyBhcyBj aGlsZHJlbiB0byB0aGUgcm9vdCBub2RlLgo+IAo+IEl0IHN1cmUgZG9lcywgY29tbWVudHMsIFBJ cyAtIGJ1dCBvbmx5IG9uZSBlbGVtZW50IG5vZGUuCj4gCgpXZWxsLCB0aGlzIGlzIG5vdCBob3cg d2Ugd2FudCB0byB2aWV3IGEgY29uZmlndXJhdGlvbiBkYXRhYmFzZS4KQWxsIG9mIG91ciBleGFt cGxlcyB1c2UgMSBvZiBOIHRvcC1sZXZlbCBlbGVtZW50cyB3aXRoaW4gYQptb2R1bGUgYXMgdGhl IGNoaWxkcmVuIG9mIHRoZSBkb2N1bWVudCByb290LgoKZS5nLiwgbXVzdCAnY291bnQoL2lmOmlu dGVyZmFjZXMvaWY6aW50ZXJmYWNlKSArCiAgICAgICAgICAgICBjb3VudCgvYWNtZTpzZXJ2ZXJz L2FjbWU6c2VydmVyJykgPiAxJzsKCldoZXJlIGlzIHRoaXMgcnVsZSBkZWZpbmVkIGluIFhQYXRo PwpJIHRoaW5rIHRoZSBsYXN0IHBhcmFncmFwaCBvZiA1LjAgaW4gWFBhdGggY29uZmxpY3RzCndp dGggdGhlIHRoZSBmaXJzdCBwYXJhZ3JhcGggb2YgNS4xOgoKNS4wOgogICBFdmVyeSBub2RlIG90 aGVyIHRoYW4gdGhlIHJvb3Qgbm9kZSBoYXMgZXhhY3RseSBvbmUgcGFyZW50LAogICB3aGljaCBp cyBlaXRoZXIgYW4gZWxlbWVudCBub2RlIG9yIHRoZSByb290IG5vZGUuCgo1LjE6CiAgIFRoZSBl bGVtZW50IG5vZGUgZm9yIHRoZSBkb2N1bWVudCBlbGVtZW50IGlzIGEgY2hpbGQgb2YgdGhlCiAg IHJvb3Qgbm9kZS4KCjUuMSBzYXlzICdUaGUnLCBub3QgJ0FuJy4gIEJ1dCA1LjAganVzdCBzYXlz IG5vZGVzIGhhdmUgMSBwYXJlbnQuClRoYXQgZG9lcyBub3QgbWVhbiB0aGUgcm9vdCBoYXMgMSBj aGlsZC4KCgpJTU8sIGFsbCB0aGUgbGl0dGxlIGRpZmZlcmVuY2VzIGFuZCBjYXZlYXRzIGluIFhQ YXRoIGFyZSBnZXR0aW5nCnRvbyBjb21wbGljYXRlZCB0b28gcmVtZW1iZXIuICBBIHRhYmxlIHNv bWV3aGVyZSB3b3VsZApoZWxwLCBzdW1tYXJpemluZyBhbGwgb2YgdGhlbS4KCgoKPiBMYWRhCgpB bmR5Cgo+IAo+Pgo+PiAvbWFydGluCgoKX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19f X19fX19fX19fX19fX18KbmV0bW9kIG1haWxpbmcgbGlzdApuZXRtb2RAaWV0Zi5vcmcKaHR0cHM6 Ly93d3cuaWV0Zi5vcmcvbWFpbG1hbi9saXN0aW5mby9uZXRtb2QK From netmod-bounces@ietf.org Wed Jan 7 08:58:58 2009 Return-Path: X-Original-To: netmod-archive@ietf.org Delivered-To: ietfarch-netmod-archive@core3.amsl.com Received: from [127.0.0.1] (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6B1BB3A6A07; Wed, 7 Jan 2009 08:58:58 -0800 (PST) X-Original-To: netmod@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: netmod@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 66D643A6A7B for ; Wed, 7 Jan 2009 08:58:57 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.059 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.059 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=0.191, BAYES_00=-2.599, HELO_EQ_CZ=0.445, HOST_EQ_CZ=0.904] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id FVNCxPvWUemz for ; Wed, 7 Jan 2009 08:58:56 -0800 (PST) Received: from office2.cesnet.cz (office2.cesnet.cz [195.113.144.244]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 89DB73A6A1C for ; Wed, 7 Jan 2009 08:58:56 -0800 (PST) Received: from [172.29.2.201] (asus-gx.lhotka.cesnet.cz [195.113.161.161]) by office2.cesnet.cz (Postfix) with ESMTP id C3118D800CC for ; Wed, 7 Jan 2009 17:58:37 +0100 (CET) From: Ladislav Lhotka To: NETMOD Working Group In-Reply-To: <20090107.174541.69698322.mbj@tail-f.com> References: <1231342679.29031.143.camel@missotis> <20090107.164636.03673997.mbj@tail-f.com> <1231344915.29031.153.camel@missotis> <20090107.174541.69698322.mbj@tail-f.com> Organization: CESNET Date: Wed, 07 Jan 2009 17:58:38 +0100 Message-Id: <1231347518.29031.173.camel@missotis> Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Evolution 2.22.3.1 Subject: Re: [netmod] XPath document root X-BeenThere: netmod@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.9 Precedence: list List-Id: NETMOD WG list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 Sender: netmod-bounces@ietf.org Errors-To: netmod-bounces@ietf.org TWFydGluIEJqb3JrbHVuZCBww63FoWUgdiBTdCAwNy4gMDEuIDIwMDkgdiAxNzo0NSArMDEwMDoK PiBMYWRpc2xhdiBMaG90a2EgPGxob3RrYUBjZXNuZXQuY3o+IHdyb3RlOgo+ID4gTWFydGluIEJq b3JrbHVuZCBww63FoWUgdiBTdCAwNy4gMDEuIDIwMDkgdiAxNjo0NiArMDEwMDoKPiA+IAo+ID4g PiAKPiA+ID4gSU1PLCB0aGUgb25seSB0aGluZyB0aGF0IGlzIGEgYml0IHVuY2xlYXIgaXMgaWYg WFBhdGggYWxsb3dzIG11bHRpcGxlCj4gPiA+IG5vZGVzIGFzIGNoaWxkcmVuIHRvIHRoZSByb290 IG5vZGUuCj4gPiAKPiA+IEl0IHN1cmUgZG9lcywgY29tbWVudHMsIFBJcyAtIGJ1dCBvbmx5IG9u ZSBlbGVtZW50IG5vZGUuCj4gCj4gV2hlcmUgaXMgaXQgc3RhdGVkIHRoYXQgdGhlcmUgY2FuIGJl IG9ubHkgb25lIGVsZW1lbnQgbm9kZT8KClNlYy4gNS4xIG9mIFhQYXRoIDEuMDogIlRoZSBlbGVt ZW50IG5vZGUgZm9yIHRoZSBkb2N1bWVudCBlbGVtZW50IGlzIGEKY2hpbGQgb2YgdGhlIHJvb3Qg bm9kZS4iIEl0J3MgImEgY2hpbGQiIHNpbmNlIHRoZXJlIGNhbiBiZSBvdGhlcgpjaGlsZHJlbiBi dXQgInRoZSBlbGVtZW50IG5vZGUgZm9yIHRoZSBkb2N1bWVudCBlbGVtZW50IiBtZWFucyB0aGVy ZSBpcwpleGFjdGx5IG9uZS4gVGhpcyBvZiBjb3Vyc2UgZm9sbG93cyBhbHNvIGZyb20gWE1MIDEu MCBzcGVjLgoKTGFkYQoKPiAKPiAKPiAvbWFydGluCi0tIApMYWRpc2xhdiBMaG90a2EsIENFU05F VApQR1AgS2V5IElEOiBFNzRFOEMwQwoKX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19f X19fX19fX19fX19fX18KbmV0bW9kIG1haWxpbmcgbGlzdApuZXRtb2RAaWV0Zi5vcmcKaHR0cHM6 Ly93d3cuaWV0Zi5vcmcvbWFpbG1hbi9saXN0aW5mby9uZXRtb2QK From netmod-bounces@ietf.org Wed Jan 7 09:05:57 2009 Return-Path: X-Original-To: netmod-archive@ietf.org Delivered-To: ietfarch-netmod-archive@core3.amsl.com Received: from [127.0.0.1] (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id A01533A6A07; Wed, 7 Jan 2009 09:05:57 -0800 (PST) X-Original-To: netmod@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: netmod@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id A1F813A6A7B for ; Wed, 7 Jan 2009 09:05:56 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.196 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.196 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=0.069, BAYES_00=-2.599, IP_NOT_FRIENDLY=0.334] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id y1HjqoIcnGbM for ; Wed, 7 Jan 2009 09:05:55 -0800 (PST) Received: from smtp120.sbc.mail.sp1.yahoo.com (smtp120.sbc.mail.sp1.yahoo.com [69.147.64.93]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with SMTP id DB6083A6A6A for ; Wed, 7 Jan 2009 09:05:55 -0800 (PST) Received: (qmail 66013 invoked from network); 7 Jan 2009 17:05:42 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO ?127.0.0.1?) (andy@68.120.68.180 with plain) by smtp120.sbc.mail.sp1.yahoo.com with SMTP; 7 Jan 2009 17:05:40 -0000 X-YMail-OSG: k25TuQkVM1lHtUf.raq_rvQXEOcabJL0._B5TqCpP3iKpfbcm7eTgsmuJpSnDwRhSJwswGv1pas58dJoFM.Tc3Fw3FeNNP.jiAaJ2tzwe3Txboe9sjWtkR0cnteL66qCJbCSIIxmbfZ5ramEk6hZaIxcUG.udsKyVUZCzpB5g5J2xdhWN.Oe5268 X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: ymail-3 Message-ID: <4964E0E1.8020209@netconfcentral.com> Date: Wed, 07 Jan 2009 09:05:37 -0800 From: Andy Bierman User-Agent: Thunderbird 2.0.0.19 (Windows/20081209) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: "tom.petch" References: <4964ADDC.4090400@netconfcentral.com> <013101c970dd$bffa3920$0601a8c0@allison> In-Reply-To: <013101c970dd$bffa3920$0601a8c0@allison> Cc: NETMOD Working Group Subject: Re: [netmod] XPath Data Model vs. YANG Data Model X-BeenThere: netmod@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.9 Precedence: list List-Id: NETMOD WG list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; Format="flowed" Sender: netmod-bounces@ietf.org Errors-To: netmod-bounces@ietf.org tom.petch wrote: > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Andy Bierman" > To: "NETMOD Working Group" > Sent: Wednesday, January 07, 2009 2:27 PM > Subject: [netmod] XPath Data Model vs. YANG Data Model > > >> We probably need to include some text on how the XPath data model >> defined in section 5 of XPath 1.0 is applied to every >> single NETCONF PDU or a NETCONF configuration database. >> > > Yes, I think that that is the crux of the issue, with the complication that a > data model in yang is not an XML document. I am unclear just how far they > diverge but in so far as there is not a one to one (reversible) mapping, then > the application of XPath 1.0 to yang may not be determinate; which is a topic > that has come up several times, in one form of another, eg in having a canonical > order or not. There may be several parts of XPath that we need to excise, > either because they make no sense or because they are too complex to make sense > of; which is perhaps what the rest of what Andy is saying is, although I need > more time to think about this. > Certainly the use of XPath in the and operations on NETMOD content is within scope. Phil's approach is actually quite reasonable, which is to define some aspects of YANG validation and protocol behavior as implementation-specific. A close reading of the document ordering reveals that it is based on the first character of each node as they appear in the XML instance document. This serialized character representation is not available inside the agent database. The relative position of data nodes within a tree may not be in document order. I just want to make sure the agent uses the same code each time, so '//chapter[42]' yields the same result on the same agent, on an unchanged database. > Tom Petch Andy > >> Sec. 5 is important because an implementor needs to >> figure out what to do for the node tests in sec. 2.3. >> None of these tests are really relevant to NETCONF, >> and will not likely be supported. >> >> The one test of interest is text(), this this matches >> any leaf content (except type empty?). Since NETMOD >> deals with elements only, it is not clear what to >> do with this one. >> >> The easiest thing to do is say all the tests except node() >> always return false. (XPath defines node() to match anything.) >> >> comment() >> text() >> processing-instruction() >> node() >> >> The namespace and attribute axis are probably going to >> be empty in NETMOD implementations as well. >> >> Andy >> > > > > _______________________________________________ netmod mailing list netmod@ietf.org https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/netmod From netmod-bounces@ietf.org Wed Jan 7 09:15:44 2009 Return-Path: X-Original-To: netmod-archive@ietf.org Delivered-To: ietfarch-netmod-archive@core3.amsl.com Received: from [127.0.0.1] (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 610C33A6802; Wed, 7 Jan 2009 09:15:44 -0800 (PST) X-Original-To: netmod@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: netmod@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id ABAB33A6A6E for ; Wed, 7 Jan 2009 09:15:42 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.197 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.197 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=0.068, BAYES_00=-2.599, IP_NOT_FRIENDLY=0.334] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 7HXqTcGPt3Xq for ; Wed, 7 Jan 2009 09:15:42 -0800 (PST) Received: from smtp125.sbc.mail.sp1.yahoo.com (smtp125.sbc.mail.sp1.yahoo.com [69.147.65.184]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with SMTP id 0C0D53A6802 for ; Wed, 7 Jan 2009 09:15:42 -0800 (PST) Received: (qmail 66754 invoked from network); 7 Jan 2009 17:15:29 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO ?127.0.0.1?) (andy@68.120.68.180 with plain) by smtp125.sbc.mail.sp1.yahoo.com with SMTP; 7 Jan 2009 17:15:27 -0000 X-YMail-OSG: NuVDbPkVM1mDwuKKDFOL_UFssKE1aPkycY6PrDSliMgj8C9wOMUMyJ7M.98mRMtIOtWHcnGFAJJD8N5cSxKzThbUJ95Ck0LVJ0XdyNLt8Rhhvw4dTXLANh2W5I9E4n5IukGzSkwl.Qd9WQE6IrxXm0JeAoe19u7yBLBq6ncbx7g2KtVtrX7RC9VW9Txi6oPlrtuVbA2p0mqp X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: ymail-3 Message-ID: <4964E32D.5080706@netconfcentral.com> Date: Wed, 07 Jan 2009 09:15:25 -0800 From: Andy Bierman User-Agent: Thunderbird 2.0.0.19 (Windows/20081209) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Ladislav Lhotka References: <1231342679.29031.143.camel@missotis> <20090107.164636.03673997.mbj@tail-f.com> <1231344915.29031.153.camel@missotis> <20090107.174541.69698322.mbj@tail-f.com> <1231347518.29031.173.camel@missotis> In-Reply-To: <1231347518.29031.173.camel@missotis> Cc: NETMOD Working Group Subject: Re: [netmod] XPath document root X-BeenThere: netmod@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.9 Precedence: list List-Id: NETMOD WG list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"; Format="flowed" Sender: netmod-bounces@ietf.org Errors-To: netmod-bounces@ietf.org TGFkaXNsYXYgTGhvdGthIHdyb3RlOgo+IE1hcnRpbiBCam9ya2x1bmQgcMOtxaFlIHYgU3QgMDcu IDAxLiAyMDA5IHYgMTc6NDUgKzAxMDA6Cj4+IExhZGlzbGF2IExob3RrYSA8bGhvdGthQGNlc25l dC5jej4gd3JvdGU6Cj4+PiBNYXJ0aW4gQmpvcmtsdW5kIHDDrcWhZSB2IFN0IDA3LiAwMS4gMjAw OSB2IDE2OjQ2ICswMTAwOgo+Pj4KPj4+PiBJTU8sIHRoZSBvbmx5IHRoaW5nIHRoYXQgaXMgYSBi aXQgdW5jbGVhciBpcyBpZiBYUGF0aCBhbGxvd3MgbXVsdGlwbGUKPj4+PiBub2RlcyBhcyBjaGls ZHJlbiB0byB0aGUgcm9vdCBub2RlLgo+Pj4gSXQgc3VyZSBkb2VzLCBjb21tZW50cywgUElzIC0g YnV0IG9ubHkgb25lIGVsZW1lbnQgbm9kZS4KPj4gV2hlcmUgaXMgaXQgc3RhdGVkIHRoYXQgdGhl cmUgY2FuIGJlIG9ubHkgb25lIGVsZW1lbnQgbm9kZT8KPiAKPiBTZWMuIDUuMSBvZiBYUGF0aCAx LjA6ICJUaGUgZWxlbWVudCBub2RlIGZvciB0aGUgZG9jdW1lbnQgZWxlbWVudCBpcyBhCj4gY2hp bGQgb2YgdGhlIHJvb3Qgbm9kZS4iIEl0J3MgImEgY2hpbGQiIHNpbmNlIHRoZXJlIGNhbiBiZSBv dGhlcgo+IGNoaWxkcmVuIGJ1dCAidGhlIGVsZW1lbnQgbm9kZSBmb3IgdGhlIGRvY3VtZW50IGVs ZW1lbnQiIG1lYW5zIHRoZXJlIGlzCj4gZXhhY3RseSBvbmUuIFRoaXMgb2YgY291cnNlIGZvbGxv d3MgYWxzbyBmcm9tIFhNTCAxLjAgc3BlYy4KPiAKCldoYXQgaWYgd2Ugc2FpZCB0aGF0IGZvciBk YXRhYmFzZSBYUGF0aCBleHByZXNzaW9ucywKdGhlIGRvY3VtZW50IHJvb3QgJy8nIHdhcyBhIHNo b3J0aGFuZCBmb3IgL25jOmNvbmZpZywKd2hlbiBjb252ZXJ0aW5nIHRoZSBYUGF0aCB0byBiZSBh cHBsaWVkIHRvIGFuCmV4dGVybmFsIHJlcHJlc2VudGF0aW9uIChYTUwgZG9jKS4gIFdlIGFscmVh ZHkKa25vdyB3ZSBuZWVkIGEgY29tbW9uIHRvcC1sZXZlbCBlbGVtZW50IGZvciA8Y29weS1jb25m aWc+CnRvIGJlIGludGVyLW9wZXJhYmxlLiAgV2UgaGF2ZSBvbmUgLS0gPG5jOmNvbmZpZz4uCgpJ ZiBldmVyeSBzaW5nbGUgREIgZXhwcmVzc2lvbiBtdXN0IGJlZ2luIHdpdGggL25jOmNvbmZpZywK dGhlbiBpbiByZWFsaXR5LCBub25lIG9mIHRoZW0gZG8uCgoKPiBMYWRhCj4gCj4+Cj4+IC9tYXJ0 aW4KCkFuZHkKCl9fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19f Cm5ldG1vZCBtYWlsaW5nIGxpc3QKbmV0bW9kQGlldGYub3JnCmh0dHBzOi8vd3d3LmlldGYub3Jn L21haWxtYW4vbGlzdGluZm8vbmV0bW9kCg== From netmod-bounces@ietf.org Wed Jan 7 09:23:56 2009 Return-Path: X-Original-To: netmod-archive@ietf.org Delivered-To: ietfarch-netmod-archive@core3.amsl.com Received: from [127.0.0.1] (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 823F03A6843; Wed, 7 Jan 2009 09:23:56 -0800 (PST) X-Original-To: netmod@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: netmod@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8357A28B23E for ; Wed, 7 Jan 2009 09:23:55 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.062 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.062 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=0.188, BAYES_00=-2.599, HELO_EQ_CZ=0.445, HOST_EQ_CZ=0.904] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id ElTS6AOuMdTM for ; Wed, 7 Jan 2009 09:23:54 -0800 (PST) Received: from office2.cesnet.cz (office2.cesnet.cz [195.113.144.244]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id AC19E3A6843 for ; Wed, 7 Jan 2009 09:23:54 -0800 (PST) Received: from [172.29.2.201] (asus-gx.lhotka.cesnet.cz [195.113.161.161]) by office2.cesnet.cz (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4A08AD800CC; Wed, 7 Jan 2009 18:23:41 +0100 (CET) From: Ladislav Lhotka To: Andy Bierman In-Reply-To: <4964DD9C.5040209@netconfcentral.com> References: <1231335516.29031.78.camel@missotis> <20090107.154353.243169569.mbj@tail-f.com> <1231342679.29031.143.camel@missotis> <20090107.164636.03673997.mbj@tail-f.com> <1231344915.29031.153.camel@missotis> <4964DD9C.5040209@netconfcentral.com> Organization: CESNET Date: Wed, 07 Jan 2009 18:23:42 +0100 Message-Id: <1231349022.29031.192.camel@missotis> Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Evolution 2.22.3.1 Cc: netmod@ietf.org Subject: Re: [netmod] XPath document root X-BeenThere: netmod@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.9 Precedence: list List-Id: NETMOD WG list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 Sender: netmod-bounces@ietf.org Errors-To: netmod-bounces@ietf.org QW5keSBCaWVybWFuIHDDrcWhZSB2IFN0IDA3LiAwMS4gMjAwOSB2IDA4OjUxIC0wODAwOgo+IExh ZGlzbGF2IExob3RrYSB3cm90ZToKPiA+IE1hcnRpbiBCam9ya2x1bmQgcMOtxaFlIHYgU3QgMDcu IDAxLiAyMDA5IHYgMTY6NDYgKzAxMDA6Cj4gPiAKPiA+PiBJTU8sIHRoZSBvbmx5IHRoaW5nIHRo YXQgaXMgYSBiaXQgdW5jbGVhciBpcyBpZiBYUGF0aCBhbGxvd3MgbXVsdGlwbGUKPiA+PiBub2Rl cyBhcyBjaGlsZHJlbiB0byB0aGUgcm9vdCBub2RlLgo+ID4gCj4gPiBJdCBzdXJlIGRvZXMsIGNv bW1lbnRzLCBQSXMgLSBidXQgb25seSBvbmUgZWxlbWVudCBub2RlLgo+ID4gCj4gCj4gV2VsbCwg dGhpcyBpcyBub3QgaG93IHdlIHdhbnQgdG8gdmlldyBhIGNvbmZpZ3VyYXRpb24gZGF0YWJhc2Uu Cj4gQWxsIG9mIG91ciBleGFtcGxlcyB1c2UgMSBvZiBOIHRvcC1sZXZlbCBlbGVtZW50cyB3aXRo aW4gYQo+IG1vZHVsZSBhcyB0aGUgY2hpbGRyZW4gb2YgdGhlIGRvY3VtZW50IHJvb3QuCgpEb2N1 bWVudCByb290IGlzIG5vdCB0aGUgc2FtZSBhcyByb290IG5vZGUgaW4gWFBhdGguIE11bHRpcGxl IHRvcC1sZXZlbApjb250YWluZXJzIGRvIG5vdCBtYXAgdG8gYSB2YWxpZCBYTUwgZG9jdW1lbnQg LSBhIGNvbW1vbiBwYXJlbnQgbXVzdCBiZQphZGRlZCwgZWl0aGVyIGZyb20gdGhlIE5FVENPTkYg dm9jYWJ1bGFyeSwgb3IgYXJ0aWZpY2lhbCAodGhhdCdzIHdoYXQgSQpwcm9wb3NlIGZvciB0aGUg bWFwcGVkIERTREwpLgoKPiAKPiBlLmcuLCBtdXN0ICdjb3VudCgvaWY6aW50ZXJmYWNlcy9pZjpp bnRlcmZhY2UpICsKPiAgICAgICAgICAgICAgY291bnQoL2FjbWU6c2VydmVycy9hY21lOnNlcnZl cicpID4gMSc7Cj4gCj4gV2hlcmUgaXMgdGhpcyBydWxlIGRlZmluZWQgaW4gWFBhdGg/Cj4gSSB0 aGluayB0aGUgbGFzdCBwYXJhZ3JhcGggb2YgNS4wIGluIFhQYXRoIGNvbmZsaWN0cwo+IHdpdGgg dGhlIHRoZSBmaXJzdCBwYXJhZ3JhcGggb2YgNS4xOgoKV2h5PyBUaGUgcm9vdCBub2RlIGhhcyBv bmUgZWxlbWVudCBub2RlIGFuZCBwZXJoYXBzIG90aGVyIG5vbi1lbGVtZW50Cm5vZGVzIChjb21t ZW50cywgUElzKSBhcyBjaGlsZHJlbi4gQW5kIGVsZW1lbnQgbm9kZXMgY2FuIGFsc28gaGF2ZQpj aGlsZHJlbiBub2RlcyAtIG90aGVyIGVsZW1lbnRzLCBhdHRyaWJ1dGVzLCBjb21tZW50cywgUElz IGFuZCB0ZXh0Cm5vZGVzLgoKTGFkYQoKPiAKPiA1LjA6Cj4gICAgRXZlcnkgbm9kZSBvdGhlciB0 aGFuIHRoZSByb290IG5vZGUgaGFzIGV4YWN0bHkgb25lIHBhcmVudCwKPiAgICB3aGljaCBpcyBl aXRoZXIgYW4gZWxlbWVudCBub2RlIG9yIHRoZSByb290IG5vZGUuCj4gCj4gNS4xOgo+ICAgIFRo ZSBlbGVtZW50IG5vZGUgZm9yIHRoZSBkb2N1bWVudCBlbGVtZW50IGlzIGEgY2hpbGQgb2YgdGhl Cj4gICAgcm9vdCBub2RlLgo+IAo+IDUuMSBzYXlzICdUaGUnLCBub3QgJ0FuJy4gIEJ1dCA1LjAg anVzdCBzYXlzIG5vZGVzIGhhdmUgMSBwYXJlbnQuCj4gVGhhdCBkb2VzIG5vdCBtZWFuIHRoZSBy b290IGhhcyAxIGNoaWxkLgo+IAo+IAo+IElNTywgYWxsIHRoZSBsaXR0bGUgZGlmZmVyZW5jZXMg YW5kIGNhdmVhdHMgaW4gWFBhdGggYXJlIGdldHRpbmcKPiB0b28gY29tcGxpY2F0ZWQgdG9vIHJl bWVtYmVyLiAgQSB0YWJsZSBzb21ld2hlcmUgd291bGQKPiBoZWxwLCBzdW1tYXJpemluZyBhbGwg b2YgdGhlbS4KPiAKPiAKPiAKPiA+IExhZGEKPiAKPiBBbmR5Cj4gCj4gPiAKPiA+Pgo+ID4+IC9t YXJ0aW4KPiAKPiAKLS0gCkxhZGlzbGF2IExob3RrYSwgQ0VTTkVUClBHUCBLZXkgSUQ6IEU3NEU4 QzBDCgpfX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fXwpuZXRt b2QgbWFpbGluZyBsaXN0Cm5ldG1vZEBpZXRmLm9yZwpodHRwczovL3d3dy5pZXRmLm9yZy9tYWls bWFuL2xpc3RpbmZvL25ldG1vZAo= From netmod-bounces@ietf.org Wed Jan 7 09:48:53 2009 Return-Path: X-Original-To: netmod-archive@ietf.org Delivered-To: ietfarch-netmod-archive@core3.amsl.com Received: from [127.0.0.1] (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id E6EFD3A6802; 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(andy@68.120.68.180 with plain) by smtp126.sbc.mail.sp1.yahoo.com with SMTP; 7 Jan 2009 17:48:37 -0000 X-YMail-OSG: T_lp1_gVM1nALxntU4VGTBubJsDB4DeH1i_IG1ptZpvb_QNR_4ituE0gqyQoz1q88hhgcKMQ051WNhhsSKcUzzOTo4TOoYe_6kVKNJi_6uo3sbSkiJZ6dJvijozZcP4wbwHJoxPPh3ohM_JDUEsIHhxX X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: ymail-3 Message-ID: <4964EAF3.6060708@netconfcentral.com> Date: Wed, 07 Jan 2009 09:48:35 -0800 From: Andy Bierman User-Agent: Thunderbird 2.0.0.19 (Windows/20081209) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: NETMOD Working Group Subject: [netmod] XPath roots example X-BeenThere: netmod@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.9 Precedence: list List-Id: NETMOD WG list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; Format="flowed" Sender: netmod-bounces@ietf.org Errors-To: netmod-bounces@ietf.org Hi, Maybe a stupid example will help. I think I agree with Martin on all the various roots, but I'm not sure :-) module test { container test { must /test2; must ../test2; leaf test { type string; } } leaf test2 { when /test; type string; } rpc test { when /test; input { leaf test { type string; must /test2; must ../test2; } leaf test2 { type int32; } } output { leaf test { type string; must /test2; must ../test2; } leaf test2 { type int32; } } } notification test { when /test; leaf test { type string; must /test2; must ../test2; } leaf test2 { type int32; } } } Which 'test' or 'test2' is being referenced in each must or when statement? Andy _______________________________________________ netmod mailing list netmod@ietf.org https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/netmod From netmod-bounces@ietf.org Wed Jan 7 12:07:46 2009 Return-Path: X-Original-To: netmod-archive@ietf.org Delivered-To: ietfarch-netmod-archive@core3.amsl.com Received: from [127.0.0.1] (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id A20783A67ED; Wed, 7 Jan 2009 12:07:46 -0800 (PST) X-Original-To: netmod@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: netmod@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id F21B13A6842 for ; Wed, 7 Jan 2009 12:07:45 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.184 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.184 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=0.415, BAYES_00=-2.599] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id Z6GvlR5i28wa for ; Wed, 7 Jan 2009 12:07:45 -0800 (PST) Received: from mk-outboundfilter-5.mail.uk.tiscali.com (mk-outboundfilter-5.mail.uk.tiscali.com [212.74.114.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id A43753A67ED for ; Wed, 7 Jan 2009 12:07:44 -0800 (PST) X-Trace: 121853779/mk-outboundfilter-5.mail.uk.tiscali.com/PIPEX/$PIPEX-ACCEPTED/pipex-customers/62.188.100.89/None/cfinss@dial.pipex.com X-SBRS: None X-RemoteIP: 62.188.100.89 X-IP-MAIL-FROM: cfinss@dial.pipex.com X-MUA: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1106Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 X-IP-BHB: Once X-IronPort-Anti-Spam-Filtered: true X-IronPort-Anti-Spam-Result: AjQFAAOaZEk+vGRZ/2dsb2JhbACDQ0CJTcJ7BoVv X-IronPort-AV: E=Sophos;i="4.37,227,1231113600"; d="scan'208";a="121853779" X-IP-Direction: IN Received: from 1cust89.tnt1.lnd9.gbr.da.uu.net (HELO allison) ([62.188.100.89]) by smtp.pipex.tiscali.co.uk with SMTP; 07 Jan 2009 20:07:28 +0000 Message-ID: <009001c970fb$27436440$0601a8c0@allison> From: "tom.petch" To: "Ladislav Lhotka" , "Andy Bierman" References: <1231335516.29031.78.camel@missotis><20090107.154353.243169569.mbj@tail-f.com><1231342679.29031.143.camel@missotis><20090107.164636.03673997.mbj@tail-f.com><1231344915.29031.153.camel@missotis><4964DD9C.5040209@netconfcentral.com> <1231349022.29031.192.camel@missotis> Date: Wed, 7 Jan 2009 20:07:06 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1106 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Cc: netmod@ietf.org Subject: Re: [netmod] XPath document root X-BeenThere: netmod@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.9 Precedence: list Reply-To: "tom.petch" List-Id: NETMOD WG list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 Sender: netmod-bounces@ietf.org Errors-To: netmod-bounces@ietf.org LS0tLS0gT3JpZ2luYWwgTWVzc2FnZSAtLS0tLQpGcm9tOiAiTGFkaXNsYXYgTGhvdGthIiA8bGhv dGthQGNlc25ldC5jej4KVG86ICJBbmR5IEJpZXJtYW4iIDxhbmR5QG5ldGNvbmZjZW50cmFsLmNv bT4KQ2M6IDxuZXRtb2RAaWV0Zi5vcmc+ClNlbnQ6IFdlZG5lc2RheSwgSmFudWFyeSAwNywgMjAw OSA2OjIzIFBNClN1YmplY3Q6IFJlOiBbbmV0bW9kXSBYUGF0aCBkb2N1bWVudCByb290CgoKPiBB bmR5IEJpZXJtYW4gcMOtxaFlIHYgU3QgMDcuIDAxLiAyMDA5IHYgMDg6NTEgLTA4MDA6Cj4gPiBM YWRpc2xhdiBMaG90a2Egd3JvdGU6Cj4gPiA+IE1hcnRpbiBCam9ya2x1bmQgcMOtxaFlIHYgU3Qg MDcuIDAxLiAyMDA5IHYgMTY6NDYgKzAxMDA6Cj4gPiA+Cj4gPiA+PiBJTU8sIHRoZSBvbmx5IHRo aW5nIHRoYXQgaXMgYSBiaXQgdW5jbGVhciBpcyBpZiBYUGF0aCBhbGxvd3MgbXVsdGlwbGUKPiA+ ID4+IG5vZGVzIGFzIGNoaWxkcmVuIHRvIHRoZSByb290IG5vZGUuCj4gPiA+Cj4gPiA+IEl0IHN1 cmUgZG9lcywgY29tbWVudHMsIFBJcyAtIGJ1dCBvbmx5IG9uZSBlbGVtZW50IG5vZGUuCj4gPiA+ Cj4gPgo+ID4gV2VsbCwgdGhpcyBpcyBub3QgaG93IHdlIHdhbnQgdG8gdmlldyBhIGNvbmZpZ3Vy YXRpb24gZGF0YWJhc2UuCj4gPiBBbGwgb2Ygb3VyIGV4YW1wbGVzIHVzZSAxIG9mIE4gdG9wLWxl dmVsIGVsZW1lbnRzIHdpdGhpbiBhCj4gPiBtb2R1bGUgYXMgdGhlIGNoaWxkcmVuIG9mIHRoZSBk b2N1bWVudCByb290Lgo+Cj4gRG9jdW1lbnQgcm9vdCBpcyBub3QgdGhlIHNhbWUgYXMgcm9vdCBu b2RlIGluIFhQYXRoLgoKeWVzLCB5ZXMgYW5kIHllcyBhZ2Fpbi4gIEkgcHJlZmVyICdkb2N1bWVu dCByb290IGVsZW1lbnQnIG9yIHNvbWUgcGVybXV0YXRpb24KdGhlcmVvZiB0byBzdHJlc3MgdGhl IGRpZmZlcmVuY2UgYmV0d2VlbiB0aGUgcm9vdCBvZiB0aGUgZG9jdW1lbnQgYW5kIHRoZQoodmly dHVhbCkgcm9vdCBub2RlIC0gd2hpY2ggaXMgbm90IGFuIGVsZW1lbnQgbm9kZSAtIHRoYXQgaXMg cGFydGljdWxhciB0byB0aGUKWFBhdGggMS4wIGRhdGEgbW9kZWwuCgpUaGUgd2F5IEkgdGhpbmsg b2YgaXQsIGlmIHRoYXQgdmlydHVhbCBub2RlIHdhcyBub3QgdGhlcmUsIHRoZW4geW91IGNvdWxk IG5vdAp1c2UgWFBhdGggYXMgYSBzZWxlY3RvciBmb3IgdGhlIHdob2xlIG9mIHRoZSBkb2N1bWVu dCwgeW91IHdvdWxkIGhhdmUgdG8gc3RhcnQKb25lIGxldmVsIGRvd24gLSBvciBlbHNlIHlvdSB3 b3VsZCBoYXZlIHRvIGNoYW5nZSB0aGUgY29uY2VwdCBvZiB3aGF0IGEgcm9vdCBpcy4KCj4KTXVs dGlwbGUgdG9wLWxldmVsCj4gY29udGFpbmVycyBkbyBub3QgbWFwIHRvIGEgdmFsaWQgWE1MIGRv Y3VtZW50IC0gYSBjb21tb24gcGFyZW50IG11c3QgYmUKPiBhZGRlZCwgZWl0aGVyIGZyb20gdGhl IE5FVENPTkYgdm9jYWJ1bGFyeSwgb3IgYXJ0aWZpY2lhbCAodGhhdCdzIHdoYXQgSQo+IHByb3Bv c2UgZm9yIHRoZSBtYXBwZWQgRFNETCkuCj4KPiA+Cj4gPiBlLmcuLCBtdXN0ICdjb3VudCgvaWY6 aW50ZXJmYWNlcy9pZjppbnRlcmZhY2UpICsKPiA+ICAgICAgICAgICAgICBjb3VudCgvYWNtZTpz ZXJ2ZXJzL2FjbWU6c2VydmVyJykgPiAxJzsKPiA+Cj4gPiBXaGVyZSBpcyB0aGlzIHJ1bGUgZGVm aW5lZCBpbiBYUGF0aD8KPiA+IEkgdGhpbmsgdGhlIGxhc3QgcGFyYWdyYXBoIG9mIDUuMCBpbiBY UGF0aCBjb25mbGljdHMKPiA+IHdpdGggdGhlIHRoZSBmaXJzdCBwYXJhZ3JhcGggb2YgNS4xOgo+ Cj4gV2h5PyBUaGUgcm9vdCBub2RlIGhhcyBvbmUgZWxlbWVudCBub2RlIGFuZCBwZXJoYXBzIG90 aGVyIG5vbi1lbGVtZW50Cj4gbm9kZXMgKGNvbW1lbnRzLCBQSXMpIGFzIGNoaWxkcmVuLiBBbmQg ZWxlbWVudCBub2RlcyBjYW4gYWxzbyBoYXZlCj4gY2hpbGRyZW4gbm9kZXMgLSBvdGhlciBlbGVt ZW50cywgYXR0cmlidXRlcywgY29tbWVudHMsIFBJcyBhbmQgdGV4dAo+IG5vZGVzLgo+CmFuZCBh Z2FpbiwgeWVzCgpUb20gUGV0Y2gKCj4gTGFkYQo+Cj4gPgo+ID4gNS4wOgo+ID4gICAgRXZlcnkg bm9kZSBvdGhlciB0aGFuIHRoZSByb290IG5vZGUgaGFzIGV4YWN0bHkgb25lIHBhcmVudCwKPiA+ ICAgIHdoaWNoIGlzIGVpdGhlciBhbiBlbGVtZW50IG5vZGUgb3IgdGhlIHJvb3Qgbm9kZS4KPiA+ Cj4gPiA1LjE6Cj4gPiAgICBUaGUgZWxlbWVudCBub2RlIGZvciB0aGUgZG9jdW1lbnQgZWxlbWVu dCBpcyBhIGNoaWxkIG9mIHRoZQo+ID4gICAgcm9vdCBub2RlLgo+ID4KPiA+IDUuMSBzYXlzICdU aGUnLCBub3QgJ0FuJy4gIEJ1dCA1LjAganVzdCBzYXlzIG5vZGVzIGhhdmUgMSBwYXJlbnQuCj4g PiBUaGF0IGRvZXMgbm90IG1lYW4gdGhlIHJvb3QgaGFzIDEgY2hpbGQuCj4gPgo+ID4KPiA+IElN TywgYWxsIHRoZSBsaXR0bGUgZGlmZmVyZW5jZXMgYW5kIGNhdmVhdHMgaW4gWFBhdGggYXJlIGdl dHRpbmcKPiA+IHRvbyBjb21wbGljYXRlZCB0b28gcmVtZW1iZXIuICBBIHRhYmxlIHNvbWV3aGVy ZSB3b3VsZAo+ID4gaGVscCwgc3VtbWFyaXppbmcgYWxsIG9mIHRoZW0uCj4gPgo+ID4KPiA+Cj4g PiA+IExhZGEKPiA+Cj4gPiBBbmR5Cj4gPgo+ID4gPgo+ID4gPj4KPiA+ID4+IC9tYXJ0aW4KPiA+ Cj4gPgo+IC0tCj4gTGFkaXNsYXYgTGhvdGthLCBDRVNORVQKPiBQR1AgS2V5IElEOiBFNzRFOEMw Qwo+Cj4gX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX18KPiBu ZXRtb2QgbWFpbGluZyBsaXN0Cj4gbmV0bW9kQGlldGYub3JnCj4gaHR0cHM6Ly93d3cuaWV0Zi5v cmcvbWFpbG1hbi9saXN0aW5mby9uZXRtb2QKPgoKX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19f X19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX18KbmV0bW9kIG1haWxpbmcgbGlzdApuZXRtb2RAaWV0Zi5vcmcK aHR0cHM6Ly93d3cuaWV0Zi5vcmcvbWFpbG1hbi9saXN0aW5mby9uZXRtb2QK From netmod-bounces@ietf.org Wed Jan 7 12:49:36 2009 Return-Path: X-Original-To: netmod-archive@ietf.org Delivered-To: ietfarch-netmod-archive@core3.amsl.com Received: from [127.0.0.1] (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 447063A6801; Wed, 7 Jan 2009 12:49:36 -0800 (PST) X-Original-To: netmod@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: netmod@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 12F033A6801 for ; Wed, 7 Jan 2009 12:49:35 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.021 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.021 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=0.025, BAYES_00=-2.599, HELO_MISMATCH_COM=0.553] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id mzF+m7LjBrIv for ; Wed, 7 Jan 2009 12:49:33 -0800 (PST) Received: from mail.tail-f.com (de-0316.d.ipeer.se [213.180.79.212]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id B29B73A677D for ; Wed, 7 Jan 2009 12:49:32 -0800 (PST) Received: from localhost (c213-100-167-236.swipnet.se [213.100.167.236]) by mail.tail-f.com (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 76FF576C524; Wed, 7 Jan 2009 21:49:18 +0100 (CET) Date: Wed, 07 Jan 2009 21:49:13 +0100 (CET) Message-Id: <20090107.214913.45428654.mbj@tail-f.com> To: andy@netconfcentral.com From: Martin Bjorklund In-Reply-To: <4964EAF3.6060708@netconfcentral.com> References: <4964EAF3.6060708@netconfcentral.com> X-Mailer: Mew version 6.0.51 on Emacs 22.2 / Mule 5.0 (SAKAKI) Mime-Version: 1.0 Cc: netmod@ietf.org Subject: Re: [netmod] XPath roots example X-BeenThere: netmod@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.9 Precedence: list List-Id: NETMOD WG list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: netmod-bounces@ietf.org Errors-To: netmod-bounces@ietf.org Hi, Andy Bierman wrote: > Hi, > > Maybe a stupid example will help. > I think I agree with Martin on all the various roots, > but I'm not sure :-) > > > module test { > > container test { > > must /test2; > must ../test2; > > leaf test { type string; } > } > > leaf test2 { > when /test; > type string; > } > > rpc test { > when /test; This is not allowed. Very unclear what it would mean... I.e. 'when' is not allowed in 'rpc'. > input { > leaf test { > type string; > must /test2; > must ../test2; > } > leaf test2 { type int32; } > } > output { > leaf test { > type string; > must /test2; > must ../test2; > } > leaf test2 { type int32; } > } > } > > notification test { > when /test; Ditto. Continuing this example: list interface { // A key "name"; leaf name { ... } } notification foo leaf test { type leafref { path "/interface/name"; // 1 } must "/interface/name"; // 2 } leaf test2 { type leafref { path "../interface/name"; // 3 } must "../interface/name"; // 4 } list interface { // B key "name"; leaf name { ... } } } The confusion here is real - the main use case for leafrefs is to be able to refer to config/operational data in notifications, so it seems (1) above should refer to the config data (A), not the list in the notification (B). But clearly (3) refers to (B), not (A). It's also odd if (2) does not refer to the same as (1). /martin _______________________________________________ netmod mailing list netmod@ietf.org https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/netmod From netmod-bounces@ietf.org Wed Jan 7 13:05:52 2009 Return-Path: X-Original-To: netmod-archive@ietf.org Delivered-To: ietfarch-netmod-archive@core3.amsl.com Received: from [127.0.0.1] (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7F0D73A6801; Wed, 7 Jan 2009 13:05:52 -0800 (PST) X-Original-To: netmod@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: netmod@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id F2B283A6A86 for ; Wed, 7 Jan 2009 13:05:51 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.021 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.021 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=0.025, BAYES_00=-2.599, HELO_MISMATCH_COM=0.553] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id Nqy-Yr6nkeKn for ; Wed, 7 Jan 2009 13:05:51 -0800 (PST) Received: from mail.tail-f.com (de-0316.d.ipeer.se [213.180.79.212]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3170E3A6A5C for ; Wed, 7 Jan 2009 13:05:51 -0800 (PST) Received: from localhost (c213-100-167-236.swipnet.se [213.100.167.236]) by mail.tail-f.com (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id B0AD276C51F; Wed, 7 Jan 2009 22:05:37 +0100 (CET) Date: Wed, 07 Jan 2009 22:05:33 +0100 (CET) Message-Id: <20090107.220533.126200790.mbj@tail-f.com> To: andy@netconfcentral.com From: Martin Bjorklund In-Reply-To: <20090105.110118.138972369.mbj@tail-f.com> References: <20081230.143906.130384865.mbj@tail-f.com> <495A5A27.4010100@netconfcentral.com> <20090105.110118.138972369.mbj@tail-f.com> X-Mailer: Mew version 6.0.51 on Emacs 22.2 / Mule 5.0 (SAKAKI) Mime-Version: 1.0 Cc: netmod@ietf.org Subject: Re: [netmod] canonical form of floats X-BeenThere: netmod@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.9 Precedence: list List-Id: NETMOD WG list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: netmod-bounces@ietf.org Errors-To: netmod-bounces@ietf.org Martin Bjorklund wrote: > So, to summarize... we'd like to be compatible with existing > technology. At a first glance, XSD seems to be the obvious candidate, > but XSD defines the canonical form to be in a form that XPath does not > understand. So if we use the XSD definition, XPath won't work. > > So we need to come up with our own definition. > > So, what value should we use for the precision in %f? Is there a > theoretical maximum we could use? Otherwise we'll have to pick a > "large" number. Unfortunately, %f pads with trailing zeros, but OTOH, > since it's straightforward to remove these trailing zeros after the > call to snprintf, we could state that trailing zeros are removed in > the canonical form. An alternative to this is to state that the canonical form is e.g. the format corresponding to %.17E (maybe with trailing zeros after the point removed). This ensures that the value is readable, but the drawback is that XPath numerical comparisons cannot be used in XPath filters. Maybe that is ok? /martin _______________________________________________ netmod mailing list netmod@ietf.org https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/netmod From netmod-bounces@ietf.org Fri Jan 9 11:00:06 2009 Return-Path: X-Original-To: netmod-archive@ietf.org Delivered-To: ietfarch-netmod-archive@core3.amsl.com Received: from [127.0.0.1] (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 705793A6AF9; Fri, 9 Jan 2009 11:00:06 -0800 (PST) X-Original-To: netmod@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: netmod@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id C0D123A6AF9 for ; Fri, 9 Jan 2009 11:00:04 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.113 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.113 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=-0.680, BAYES_00=-2.599, FF_IHOPE_YOU_SINK=2.166] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id xehMG9zXjD5L for ; Fri, 9 Jan 2009 11:00:03 -0800 (PST) Received: from mk-outboundfilter-6.mail.uk.tiscali.com (mk-outboundfilter-6.mail.uk.tiscali.com [212.74.114.14]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 864723A6A61 for ; Fri, 9 Jan 2009 11:00:03 -0800 (PST) X-Trace: 66786352/mk-outboundfilter-6.mail.uk.tiscali.com/PIPEX/$PIPEX-ACCEPTED/pipex-customers/62.188.100.81/None/cfinss@dial.pipex.com X-SBRS: None X-RemoteIP: 62.188.100.81 X-IP-MAIL-FROM: cfinss@dial.pipex.com X-MUA: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1106Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 X-IP-BHB: Once X-IronPort-Anti-Spam-Filtered: true X-IronPort-Anti-Spam-Result: AsYEAMssZ0k+vGRR/2dsb2JhbACDQ4oPwwQGhWk X-IronPort-AV: E=Sophos;i="4.37,240,1231113600"; d="scan'208";a="66786352" X-IP-Direction: IN Received: from 1cust81.tnt1.lnd9.gbr.da.uu.net (HELO allison) ([62.188.100.81]) by smtp.pipex.tiscali.co.uk with SMTP; 09 Jan 2009 18:59:47 +0000 Message-ID: <002f01c97284$05cadc00$0601a8c0@allison> From: "tom.petch" To: "Andy Bierman" , "Martin Bjorklund" References: <20081230.143906.130384865.mbj@tail-f.com><495A5A27.4010100@netconfcentral.com><20090105.110118.138972369.mbj@tail-f.com> <20090107.220533.126200790.mbj@tail-f.com> Date: Fri, 9 Jan 2009 18:58:58 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1106 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Cc: netmod@ietf.org Subject: Re: [netmod] canonical form of floats X-BeenThere: netmod@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.9 Precedence: list Reply-To: "tom.petch" List-Id: NETMOD WG list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: netmod-bounces@ietf.org Errors-To: netmod-bounces@ietf.org ----- Original Message ----- From: "Martin Bjorklund" To: Cc: Sent: Wednesday, January 07, 2009 10:05 PM Subject: Re: [netmod] canonical form of floats > Martin Bjorklund wrote: > > So, to summarize... we'd like to be compatible with existing > > technology. At a first glance, XSD seems to be the obvious candidate, > > but XSD defines the canonical form to be in a form that XPath does not > > understand. So if we use the XSD definition, XPath won't work. > > > > So we need to come up with our own definition. > > > > So, what value should we use for the precision in %f? Is there a > > theoretical maximum we could use? Otherwise we'll have to pick a > > "large" number. Unfortunately, %f pads with trailing zeros, but OTOH, > > since it's straightforward to remove these trailing zeros after the > > call to snprintf, we could state that trailing zeros are removed in > > the canonical form. > > An alternative to this is to state that the canonical form is e.g. the > format corresponding to %.17E (maybe with trailing zeros after the > point removed). This ensures that the value is readable, but the > drawback is that XPath numerical comparisons cannot be used in XPath > filters. Maybe that is ok? > I've got lost here. The YANG data model allows floats, the server must output them in canonical form but where does XPath come into it? Is my get-config going to return XPath expressions:-)? If the gotten values are going to be sent back to the server as part of an XPath expression, then yes, any float must be converted into fixed because that is what XPath 1.0 requires, but the XPath specification allows the fixed representation to encompass any float value so I have lost sight of the problem in so far as XPath comes into it. Tom Petch > > /martin > _______________________________________________ > netmod mailing list > netmod@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/netmod _______________________________________________ netmod mailing list netmod@ietf.org https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/netmod From netmod-bounces@ietf.org Mon Jan 12 05:15:03 2009 Return-Path: X-Original-To: netmod-archive@ietf.org Delivered-To: ietfarch-netmod-archive@core3.amsl.com Received: from [127.0.0.1] (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5FF6F28C321; Mon, 12 Jan 2009 05:15:03 -0800 (PST) X-Original-To: netmod@ietf.org Delivered-To: netmod@core3.amsl.com Received: by core3.amsl.com (Postfix, from userid 0) id B624B28C318; Mon, 12 Jan 2009 05:15:01 -0800 (PST) From: Internet-Drafts@ietf.org To: i-d-announce@ietf.org Content-Type: Multipart/Mixed; Boundary="NextPart" Mime-Version: 1.0 Message-Id: <20090112131501.B624B28C318@core3.amsl.com> Date: Mon, 12 Jan 2009 05:15:01 -0800 (PST) Cc: netmod@ietf.org Subject: [netmod] I-D Action:draft-ietf-netmod-yang-03.txt X-BeenThere: netmod@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.9 Precedence: list List-Id: NETMOD WG list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: netmod-bounces@ietf.org Errors-To: netmod-bounces@ietf.org --NextPart A New Internet-Draft is available from the on-line Internet-Drafts directories. This draft is a work item of the NETCONF Data Modeling Language Working Group of the IETF. Title : YANG - A data modeling language for NETCONF Author(s) : M. Bjorklund Filename : draft-ietf-netmod-yang-03.txt Pages : 168 Date : 2009-01-12 YANG is a data modeling language used to model configuration and state data manipulated by the NETCONF protocol, NETCONF remote procedure calls, and NETCONF notifications. A URL for this Internet-Draft is: http://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-ietf-netmod-yang-03.txt Internet-Drafts are also available by anonymous FTP at: ftp://ftp.ietf.org/internet-drafts/ Below is the data which will enable a MIME compliant mail reader implementation to automatically retrieve the ASCII version of the Internet-Draft. --NextPart Content-Type: Message/External-body; name="draft-ietf-netmod-yang-03.txt"; site="ftp.ietf.org"; access-type="anon-ftp"; directory="internet-drafts" Content-Type: text/plain Content-ID: <2009-01-12051303.I-D@ietf.org> --NextPart Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline _______________________________________________ netmod mailing list netmod@ietf.org https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/netmod --NextPart-- From netmod-bounces@ietf.org Thu Jan 15 04:24:21 2009 Return-Path: X-Original-To: netmod-archive@ietf.org Delivered-To: ietfarch-netmod-archive@core3.amsl.com Received: from [127.0.0.1] (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id BC5D228C210; Thu, 15 Jan 2009 04:24:21 -0800 (PST) X-Original-To: netmod@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: netmod@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 802C528C21B for ; Thu, 15 Jan 2009 04:24:20 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.07 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.07 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=-0.637, BAYES_00=-2.599, FF_IHOPE_YOU_SINK=2.166] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id wx2CzWqxCUcG for ; Thu, 15 Jan 2009 04:24:19 -0800 (PST) Received: from mk-outboundfilter-6.mail.uk.tiscali.com (mk-outboundfilter-6.mail.uk.tiscali.com [212.74.114.14]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 539B828C210 for ; Thu, 15 Jan 2009 04:24:19 -0800 (PST) X-Trace: 68062343/mk-outboundfilter-6.mail.uk.tiscali.com/PIPEX/$PIPEX-ACCEPTED/pipex-customers/62.188.100.224/None/cfinss@dial.pipex.com X-SBRS: None X-RemoteIP: 62.188.100.224 X-IP-MAIL-FROM: cfinss@dial.pipex.com X-MUA: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1106Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 X-IP-BHB: Once X-IronPort-Anti-Spam-Filtered: true X-IronPort-Anti-Spam-Result: ApwEALW5bkk+vGTg/2dsb2JhbACDQ4oNwTkGhWg X-IronPort-AV: E=Sophos;i="4.37,269,1231113600"; d="scan'208";a="68062343" X-IP-Direction: IN Received: from 1cust224.tnt1.lnd9.gbr.da.uu.net (HELO allison) ([62.188.100.224]) by smtp.pipex.tiscali.co.uk with SMTP; 15 Jan 2009 12:24:01 +0000 Message-ID: <002401c97703$b60296c0$0601a8c0@allison> From: "tom.petch" To: "Andy Bierman" , "Martin Bjorklund" References: <20081230.143906.130384865.mbj@tail-f.com><495A5A27.4010100@netconfcentral.com><20090105.110118.138972369.mbj@tail-f.com><20090107.220533.126200790.mbj@tail-f.com> <002f01c97284$05cadc00$0601a8c0@allison> Date: Thu, 15 Jan 2009 10:32:04 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1106 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Cc: netmod@ietf.org Subject: Re: [netmod] canonical form of floats X-BeenThere: netmod@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.9 Precedence: list Reply-To: "tom.petch" List-Id: NETMOD WG list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: netmod-bounces@ietf.org Errors-To: netmod-bounces@ietf.org Reading yang-03, I think I now understand the problem. 7.5.3 (eg) says " Note that since all leaf values in the data tree are conceptually stored in their canonical form (see Section 7.6 and Section 7.7), any XPath comparisons are done on the canonical value." so a float will be in xEy format which XPath 1.0 does not allow. But I think that that is simply solved since XPath 1.0 does allow decimal representations that encompass the range of a float so add a note to that effect, that the float must be conceptually coerced into decimal representation before the XPath comparison is performed. Tom Petch ----- Original Message ----- From: "tom.petch" To: "Andy Bierman" ; "Martin Bjorklund" Cc: Sent: Friday, January 09, 2009 6:58 PM Subject: Re: [netmod] canonical form of floats > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Martin Bjorklund" > To: > Cc: > Sent: Wednesday, January 07, 2009 10:05 PM > Subject: Re: [netmod] canonical form of floats > > > > Martin Bjorklund wrote: > > > So, to summarize... we'd like to be compatible with existing > > > technology. At a first glance, XSD seems to be the obvious candidate, > > > but XSD defines the canonical form to be in a form that XPath does not > > > understand. So if we use the XSD definition, XPath won't work. > > > > > > So we need to come up with our own definition. > > > > > > So, what value should we use for the precision in %f? Is there a > > > theoretical maximum we could use? Otherwise we'll have to pick a > > > "large" number. Unfortunately, %f pads with trailing zeros, but OTOH, > > > since it's straightforward to remove these trailing zeros after the > > > call to snprintf, we could state that trailing zeros are removed in > > > the canonical form. > > > > An alternative to this is to state that the canonical form is e.g. the > > format corresponding to %.17E (maybe with trailing zeros after the > > point removed). This ensures that the value is readable, but the > > drawback is that XPath numerical comparisons cannot be used in XPath > > filters. Maybe that is ok? > > > I've got lost here. The YANG data model allows floats, the server must output > them in canonical form but where does XPath come into it? Is my get-config > going to return XPath expressions:-)? > > If the gotten values are going to be sent back to the server as part of an XPath > expression, then yes, any float must be converted into fixed because that is > what XPath 1.0 requires, but the XPath specification allows the fixed > representation to encompass any float value so I have lost sight of the problem > in so far as XPath comes into it. > > Tom Petch > > > > > > /martin > > _______________________________________________ > > netmod mailing list > > netmod@ietf.org > > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/netmod > > _______________________________________________ > netmod mailing list > netmod@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/netmod _______________________________________________ netmod mailing list netmod@ietf.org https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/netmod From netmod-bounces@ietf.org Fri Jan 16 18:02:08 2009 Return-Path: X-Original-To: netmod-archive@ietf.org Delivered-To: ietfarch-netmod-archive@core3.amsl.com Received: from [127.0.0.1] (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 995153A6A0F; Fri, 16 Jan 2009 18:02:08 -0800 (PST) X-Original-To: netmod@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: netmod@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id A3C623A6A2D for ; Fri, 16 Jan 2009 18:02:07 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.065 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.065 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-2.599, IP_NOT_FRIENDLY=0.334, J_CHICKENPOX_64=0.6, J_CHICKENPOX_65=0.6] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id GFluFth3wfPH for ; Fri, 16 Jan 2009 18:02:07 -0800 (PST) Received: from smtp115.sbc.mail.sp1.yahoo.com (smtp115.sbc.mail.sp1.yahoo.com [69.147.64.88]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with SMTP id E73893A691D for ; Fri, 16 Jan 2009 18:02:06 -0800 (PST) Received: (qmail 56156 invoked from network); 17 Jan 2009 02:01:51 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO ?127.0.0.1?) (andy@67.122.139.105 with plain) by smtp115.sbc.mail.sp1.yahoo.com with SMTP; 17 Jan 2009 02:01:44 -0000 X-YMail-OSG: 5kVr6MEVM1l81pDhiCqBnoCxj0_Zl5OQiES7imaK8ASD6KKNX75dwAC1IBEDxp3oDQ0p3rjMXU52nUbdcNxPJjgunC5.kag.ro2yb8eur6YoEDv6vgsVTsJhKw.HvT4TqczzHf..prpNwiJOp4by.XkR X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: ymail-3 Message-ID: <49713C05.2060308@andybierman.com> Date: Fri, 16 Jan 2009 18:01:41 -0800 From: Andy Bierman User-Agent: Thunderbird 2.0.0.19 (Windows/20081209) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: NETMOD Working Group Subject: [netmod] must-stmt for non-config nodes X-BeenThere: netmod@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.9 Precedence: list List-Id: NETMOD WG list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; Format="flowed" Sender: netmod-bounces@ietf.org Errors-To: netmod-bounces@ietf.org Hi, I just noticed that the evaluation of must-stmts changed from -02 to -03. From yang-03, sec. 7.5.3, para 6: o If the context node represents configuration, the tree is the data in one of the datastores , , or . The XPath root node has all top-level configuration data nodes in all modules as children. IMO, this is an unacceptable change. Which one of the datastores is it? The has no config=false nodes, unlike . The config is not even required to be accessible with , let alone . If a DM designer writes an must expression, it needs to work whether the target is or . The rule above is not only too ambiguous, the XPath expr will not work the same on different database targets, which (IMO) is unacceptable. The config cannot possibly have must statements associated with it. The is a snapshot of and all the config=false nodes will continue to change, regardless of any locks. If has non-config nodes, or has non-config nodes, then we need to stop everything and agree on a NETCONF architecture before continuing with YANG. The previous rule made sense: If the node containing the must-stmt is config=true, then the expression cannot reference config=false nodes. That actually works for either standard database target. Andy _______________________________________________ netmod mailing list netmod@ietf.org https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/netmod From netmod-bounces@ietf.org Sun Jan 18 12:36:04 2009 Return-Path: X-Original-To: netmod-archive@ietf.org Delivered-To: ietfarch-netmod-archive@core3.amsl.com Received: from [127.0.0.1] (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id DB8FF3A683A; Sun, 18 Jan 2009 12:36:04 -0800 (PST) X-Original-To: netmod@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: netmod@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 368FD3A6963 for ; Sun, 18 Jan 2009 12:36:04 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -5.999 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-5.999 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=-0.600, BAYES_00=-2.599, J_CHICKENPOX_64=0.6, J_CHICKENPOX_65=0.6, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-4] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id NS7T9pBeHp22 for ; Sun, 18 Jan 2009 12:36:03 -0800 (PST) Received: from exprod7og108.obsmtp.com (exprod7og108.obsmtp.com [64.18.2.169]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4EECB3A683A for ; Sun, 18 Jan 2009 12:36:03 -0800 (PST) Received: from source ([66.129.224.36]) (using TLSv1) by exprod7ob108.postini.com ([64.18.6.12]) with SMTP ID DSNKSXOSoUrax3oBCzfxdQKGYKDS6BZJGxDB@postini.com; Sun, 18 Jan 2009 12:35:48 PST Received: from p-emfe01-sac.jnpr.net (66.129.254.72) by P-EMHUB01-HQ.jnpr.net (172.24.192.35) with Microsoft SMTP Server id 8.1.336.0; Sun, 18 Jan 2009 12:33:09 -0800 Received: from p-emlb02-sac.jnpr.net ([66.129.254.47]) by p-emfe01-sac.jnpr.net with Microsoft SMTPSVC(6.0.3790.3959); Sun, 18 Jan 2009 12:33:09 -0800 Received: from emailsmtp56.jnpr.net ([172.24.60.77]) by p-emlb02-sac.jnpr.net with Microsoft SMTPSVC(6.0.3790.3959); Sun, 18 Jan 2009 12:33:09 -0800 Received: from magenta.juniper.net ([172.17.27.123]) by emailsmtp56.jnpr.net with Microsoft SMTPSVC(6.0.3790.3959); Sun, 18 Jan 2009 12:33:08 -0800 Received: from idle.juniper.net (idleski.juniper.net [172.25.4.26]) by magenta.juniper.net (8.11.3/8.11.3) with ESMTP id n0IKX8M31297; Sun, 18 Jan 2009 12:33:08 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from phil@juniper.net) Received: from idle.juniper.net (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by idle.juniper.net (8.13.8/8.13.8) with ESMTP id n0IKR7uh034713; Sun, 18 Jan 2009 20:27:07 GMT (envelope-from phil@idle.juniper.net) Message-ID: <200901182027.n0IKR7uh034713@idle.juniper.net> To: Andy Bierman In-Reply-To: <49713C05.2060308@andybierman.com> Date: Sun, 18 Jan 2009 15:27:07 -0500 From: Phil Shafer X-OriginalArrivalTime: 18 Jan 2009 20:33:08.0583 (UTC) FILETIME=[F94ECF70:01C979AB] MIME-Version: 1.0 Cc: NETMOD Working Group Subject: Re: [netmod] must-stmt for non-config nodes X-BeenThere: netmod@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.9 Precedence: list List-Id: NETMOD WG list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: netmod-bounces@ietf.org Errors-To: netmod-bounces@ietf.org Andy Bierman writes: > o If the context node represents configuration, the tree is the data > in one of the datastores , , or . > The XPath root node has all top-level configuration data nodes in > all modules as children. > >IMO, this is an unacceptable change. >Which one of the datastores is it? >The has no config=false nodes, unlike . is a config datastore, so it has no config=false nodes. >The config is not even required to be accessible >with , let alone . But all must expressions (and other validity constraints) are true for startup as well as running. >If a DM designer writes an must expression, it needs to >work whether the target is or . True. >The rule above is not only too ambiguous, the XPath expr will >not work the same on different database targets, >which (IMO) is unacceptable. I don't follow you here (and maybe I'm not following you anyways, but...). The comment is meant to say that the must expressions are applied to the portion of the config data store rooted at the conceptual top, which is at the top of the datastore, whether the datastore is , , or . It doesn't mean that the element is the document element, if that's what you are reading into it. >The config cannot possibly have must statements >associated with it. Are you saying need not validate? >The is a snapshot >of and all the config=false nodes will >continue to change, regardless of any locks. is a workspace and may be completely distinct from the contents of . Yes, config=false nodes will continue to change, but they are not part of the datastore. >If has non-config nodes, or >has non-config nodes, then we need to stop everything >and agree on a NETCONF architecture before continuing with YANG. is a config datastore and so it cannot have non-config nodes. Similarly for . Where did you get this idea from? I believe the intent is to put all "top-level" nodes in YANG at the same level in that NETCONF world view, so my "/jnpr:foo" and your "/ncx:foo" are siblings. >The previous rule made sense: If the node containing >the must-stmt is config=true, then the expression cannot >reference config=false nodes. That actually works >for either standard database target. Personally, I completely agree that the "cannot reference" rule should remain, but the concensus was (I believe) to add this odd "strict false" cruft, which breaks this rule. This leasds to config -> non-config references. Or maybe I'm still not following you. Thanks, Phil _______________________________________________ netmod mailing list netmod@ietf.org https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/netmod From netmod-bounces@ietf.org Sun Jan 18 12:56:58 2009 Return-Path: X-Original-To: netmod-archive@ietf.org Delivered-To: ietfarch-netmod-archive@core3.amsl.com Received: from [127.0.0.1] (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5C6353A6778; Sun, 18 Jan 2009 12:56:58 -0800 (PST) X-Original-To: netmod@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: netmod@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id E41213A6919 for ; Sun, 18 Jan 2009 12:56:56 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.065 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.065 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-2.599, IP_NOT_FRIENDLY=0.334, J_CHICKENPOX_64=0.6, J_CHICKENPOX_65=0.6] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id GJBpVVj8ihPb for ; Sun, 18 Jan 2009 12:56:56 -0800 (PST) Received: from smtp128.sbc.mail.sp1.yahoo.com (smtp128.sbc.mail.sp1.yahoo.com [69.147.65.187]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with SMTP id 0B8413A6778 for ; Sun, 18 Jan 2009 12:56:56 -0800 (PST) Received: (qmail 7566 invoked from network); 18 Jan 2009 20:56:39 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO ?127.0.0.1?) (andy@67.122.139.105 with plain) by smtp128.sbc.mail.sp1.yahoo.com with SMTP; 18 Jan 2009 20:56:38 -0000 X-YMail-OSG: 9Lv5vgUVM1mN0dBAtT7dNBVsj3jQKVFlpM2qN9Ge27w.aqr2IkHVb6bas94P5Q_kOyxlmAwuRG_tw.lpECUFXpYhRUldjfzaFXndPOv0NVKOB.RMXZ5iSTvNGYiSj_FLjlMQ.Gvx1bMD48zbKuHfyzZ2 X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: ymail-3 Message-ID: <49739784.9040301@netconfcentral.com> Date: Sun, 18 Jan 2009 12:56:36 -0800 From: Andy Bierman User-Agent: Thunderbird 2.0.0.19 (Windows/20081209) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Phil Shafer References: <200901182027.n0IKR7uh034713@idle.juniper.net> In-Reply-To: <200901182027.n0IKR7uh034713@idle.juniper.net> Cc: NETMOD Working Group Subject: Re: [netmod] must-stmt for non-config nodes X-BeenThere: netmod@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.9 Precedence: list List-Id: NETMOD WG list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; Format="flowed" Sender: netmod-bounces@ietf.org Errors-To: netmod-bounces@ietf.org Phil Shafer wrote: > Andy Bierman writes: >> o If the context node represents configuration, the tree is the data >> in one of the datastores , , or . >> The XPath root node has all top-level configuration data nodes in >> all modules as children. >> >> IMO, this is an unacceptable change. >> Which one of the datastores is it? >> The has no config=false nodes, unlike . > > is a config datastore, so it has no config=false nodes. > >> The config is not even required to be accessible >> with , let alone . > > But all must expressions (and other validity constraints) are > true for startup as well as running. > >> If a DM designer writes an must expression, it needs to >> work whether the target is or . > > True. > >> The rule above is not only too ambiguous, the XPath expr will >> not work the same on different database targets, >> which (IMO) is unacceptable. > > I don't follow you here (and maybe I'm not following you > anyways, but...). The comment is meant to say that the > must expressions are applied to the portion of the config > data store rooted at the conceptual top, which is at the > top of the datastore, whether the datastore is , > , or . It doesn't mean that the > element is the document element, if that's what > you are reading into it. > >> The config cannot possibly have must statements >> associated with it. > > Are you saying need not validate? > >> The is a snapshot >> of and all the config=false nodes will >> continue to change, regardless of any locks. > > is a workspace and may be completely > distinct from the contents of . Yes, > config=false nodes will continue to change, but > they are not part of the datastore. > >> If has non-config nodes, or >> has non-config nodes, then we need to stop everything >> and agree on a NETCONF architecture before continuing with YANG. > > is a config datastore and so it cannot have non-config > nodes. Similarly for . Where did you get this idea > from? > > I believe the intent is to put all "top-level" nodes in YANG > at the same level in that NETCONF world view, so my "/jnpr:foo" > and your "/ncx:foo" are siblings. > >> The previous rule made sense: If the node containing >> the must-stmt is config=true, then the expression cannot >> reference config=false nodes. That actually works >> for either standard database target. > > Personally, I completely agree that the "cannot reference" rule > should remain, but the concensus was (I believe) to add this > odd "strict false" cruft, which breaks this rule. This leasds > to config -> non-config references. > > Or maybe I'm still not following you. > IMO, that config may not validate. What if the operator is updating the SW image and the startup config at the same time, and the new startup will not validate with the current SW image, but it will with the new one. module broken { namespace "broken"; prefix b; container top { leaf a { type string; must "../b > 10"; } leaf b { type uint32; config false; } } } candidate: fred running: fred 100 startup: fred I do not agree that the config has config=true only nodes. In either case, how is the must-stmt in leaf 'a' supposed to evaluate the same on any database, not just ? YANG modules that only work if the target is is broken. > Thanks, > Phil Andy _______________________________________________ netmod mailing list netmod@ietf.org https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/netmod From netmod-bounces@ietf.org Sun Jan 18 13:42:33 2009 Return-Path: X-Original-To: netmod-archive@ietf.org Delivered-To: ietfarch-netmod-archive@core3.amsl.com Received: from [127.0.0.1] (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 56A683A6A40; Sun, 18 Jan 2009 13:42:33 -0800 (PST) X-Original-To: netmod@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: netmod@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4922E3A6B2A for ; Sun, 18 Jan 2009 13:42:32 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.422 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.422 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=-0.576, BAYES_00=-2.599, HELO_MISMATCH_COM=0.553, J_CHICKENPOX_64=0.6, J_CHICKENPOX_65=0.6] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id rVMthVW8AYW4 for ; Sun, 18 Jan 2009 13:42:31 -0800 (PST) Received: from mail.tail-f.com (de-0316.d.ipeer.se [213.180.79.212]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7507C3A6A40 for ; Sun, 18 Jan 2009 13:42:31 -0800 (PST) Received: from localhost (c213-100-167-236.swipnet.se [213.100.167.236]) by mail.tail-f.com (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id DC5A776C32E; Sun, 18 Jan 2009 22:42:13 +0100 (CET) Date: Sun, 18 Jan 2009 22:42:13 +0100 (CET) Message-Id: <20090118.224213.101829185.mbj@tail-f.com> To: phil@juniper.net From: Martin Bjorklund In-Reply-To: <200901182027.n0IKR7uh034713@idle.juniper.net> References: <49713C05.2060308@andybierman.com> <200901182027.n0IKR7uh034713@idle.juniper.net> X-Mailer: Mew version 6.0.51 on Emacs 22.2 / Mule 5.0 (SAKAKI) Mime-Version: 1.0 Cc: netmod@ietf.org, andy@andybierman.com Subject: Re: [netmod] must-stmt for non-config nodes X-BeenThere: netmod@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.9 Precedence: list List-Id: NETMOD WG list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: netmod-bounces@ietf.org Errors-To: netmod-bounces@ietf.org Phil Shafer wrote: > >The previous rule made sense: If the node containing > >the must-stmt is config=true, then the expression cannot > >reference config=false nodes. That actually works > >for either standard database target. > > Personally, I completely agree that the "cannot reference" rule > should remain, but the concensus was (I believe) to add this > odd "strict false" cruft, which breaks this rule. This leasds > to config -> non-config references. No that's another thing. The "cannot reference" was changed into this text which states that the accessible tree (in which the must stmt is evaluated) is made up of all config=true nodes for the config datastores. Thus, config=false nodes are never part of the accessible tree for must expression on a config=true node. But the new thing is that it changed from a MUST NOT to this text. The reason was brought up by Andy, I believe. If a non-config node is referenced, it will evaluate to empty, just as if a non-existing node is referenced. Consider this: container x { config true; leaf a { config false; type int32; } leaf b { config true; must "../a > ."; // (1) must "../z > ."; // (2) type int32; } } Both (1) and (2) will always evaluate to false, since in (1) a is not part of the accessible tree, and in (2), there is no such node z. This is consistent with how XPath evaluators work on XML instance documents. /martin _______________________________________________ netmod mailing list netmod@ietf.org https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/netmod From netmod-bounces@ietf.org Sun Jan 18 13:46:59 2009 Return-Path: X-Original-To: netmod-archive@ietf.org Delivered-To: ietfarch-netmod-archive@core3.amsl.com Received: from [127.0.0.1] (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 701383A692D; Sun, 18 Jan 2009 13:46:59 -0800 (PST) X-Original-To: netmod@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: netmod@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 15B493A6B57 for ; Sun, 18 Jan 2009 13:46:59 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.713 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.713 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=-0.267, BAYES_00=-2.599, HELO_MISMATCH_COM=0.553, J_CHICKENPOX_64=0.6] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id rkO2oAOgWlbV for ; Sun, 18 Jan 2009 13:46:58 -0800 (PST) Received: from mail.tail-f.com (de-0316.d.ipeer.se [213.180.79.212]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6257B3A692D for ; Sun, 18 Jan 2009 13:46:58 -0800 (PST) Received: from localhost (c213-100-167-236.swipnet.se [213.100.167.236]) by mail.tail-f.com (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 693F376C32E; Sun, 18 Jan 2009 22:46:42 +0100 (CET) Date: Sun, 18 Jan 2009 22:46:39 +0100 (CET) Message-Id: <20090118.224639.168164580.mbj@tail-f.com> To: andy@netconfcentral.com From: Martin Bjorklund In-Reply-To: <49739784.9040301@netconfcentral.com> References: <200901182027.n0IKR7uh034713@idle.juniper.net> <49739784.9040301@netconfcentral.com> X-Mailer: Mew version 6.0.51 on Emacs 22.2 / Mule 5.0 (SAKAKI) Mime-Version: 1.0 Cc: netmod@ietf.org Subject: Re: [netmod] must-stmt for non-config nodes X-BeenThere: netmod@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.9 Precedence: list List-Id: NETMOD WG list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: netmod-bounces@ietf.org Errors-To: netmod-bounces@ietf.org Andy Bierman wrote: > I do not agree that the config has config=true > only nodes. So you think on returns state data? I think it's very clear from 4741 that the config contains *config* only. /martin _______________________________________________ netmod mailing list netmod@ietf.org https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/netmod From netmod-bounces@ietf.org Sun Jan 18 14:02:39 2009 Return-Path: X-Original-To: netmod-archive@ietf.org Delivered-To: ietfarch-netmod-archive@core3.amsl.com Received: from [127.0.0.1] (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 462F83A67BD; Sun, 18 Jan 2009 14:02:39 -0800 (PST) X-Original-To: netmod@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: netmod@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 326ED3A6A40 for ; Sun, 18 Jan 2009 14:02:38 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.365 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.365 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=0.300, BAYES_00=-2.599, IP_NOT_FRIENDLY=0.334, J_CHICKENPOX_64=0.6] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id fvsHcsEc4X5f for ; Sun, 18 Jan 2009 14:02:37 -0800 (PST) Received: from smtp127.sbc.mail.sp1.yahoo.com (smtp127.sbc.mail.sp1.yahoo.com [69.147.65.186]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with SMTP id 9E56A3A67BD for ; Sun, 18 Jan 2009 14:02:37 -0800 (PST) Received: (qmail 89270 invoked from network); 18 Jan 2009 22:02:21 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO ?127.0.0.1?) (andy@67.122.139.105 with plain) by smtp127.sbc.mail.sp1.yahoo.com with SMTP; 18 Jan 2009 22:02:19 -0000 X-YMail-OSG: 89glmMkVM1lUIzOSIOozPrHtMPiGHSVPLFcz63YNBhlcp0M7tI3gIRyspgIyxif_2wvNal2UMSioa_RDagCbdzarppopqY7hKtQV3tmpv73HVXptNmmzZpkBPfwErjapCmUMBUFKPOSeBuno0KewqdNdiH6_zz5nxNx2XX9TWAHJwu3iUsp3mP5ePR_YupUucDsoypcDQfRbiCwe.p5Log-- X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: ymail-3 Message-ID: <4973A6EA.1090506@netconfcentral.com> Date: Sun, 18 Jan 2009 14:02:18 -0800 From: Andy Bierman User-Agent: Thunderbird 2.0.0.19 (Windows/20081209) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Martin Bjorklund References: <200901182027.n0IKR7uh034713@idle.juniper.net> <49739784.9040301@netconfcentral.com> <20090118.224639.168164580.mbj@tail-f.com> In-Reply-To: <20090118.224639.168164580.mbj@tail-f.com> Cc: netmod@ietf.org Subject: Re: [netmod] must-stmt for non-config nodes X-BeenThere: netmod@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.9 Precedence: list List-Id: NETMOD WG list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; Format="flowed" Sender: netmod-bounces@ietf.org Errors-To: netmod-bounces@ietf.org Martin Bjorklund wrote: > Andy Bierman wrote: >> I do not agree that the config has config=true >> only nodes. > > So you think on returns state data? > No, filters out the non-config nodes. But on returns all nodes, config or not. It is just an implementation issue how the agent constructs the response. The new CLR is confusing. It means that must "//b"; and get(type=xpath, select="//b") return different results. According to the YANG module, the node is there. (Both a and a are child nodes of x in your example.) > I think it's very clear from 4741 that the config contains > *config* only. > > > /martin > > > Andy _______________________________________________ netmod mailing list netmod@ietf.org https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/netmod From netmod-bounces@ietf.org Sun Jan 18 14:17:16 2009 Return-Path: X-Original-To: netmod-archive@ietf.org Delivered-To: ietfarch-netmod-archive@core3.amsl.com Received: from [127.0.0.1] (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8C8623A6897; Sun, 18 Jan 2009 14:17:16 -0800 (PST) X-Original-To: netmod@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: netmod@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 118953A67BD for ; Sun, 18 Jan 2009 14:17:15 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.215 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.215 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=-0.150, BAYES_00=-2.599, IP_NOT_FRIENDLY=0.334, J_CHICKENPOX_64=0.6, J_CHICKENPOX_65=0.6] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 13lIGiZB5lgf for ; Sun, 18 Jan 2009 14:17:14 -0800 (PST) Received: from smtp125.sbc.mail.sp1.yahoo.com (smtp125.sbc.mail.sp1.yahoo.com [69.147.65.184]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with SMTP id 401383A6897 for ; Sun, 18 Jan 2009 14:17:14 -0800 (PST) Received: (qmail 83435 invoked from network); 18 Jan 2009 22:16:57 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO ?127.0.0.1?) (andy@67.122.139.105 with plain) by smtp125.sbc.mail.sp1.yahoo.com with SMTP; 18 Jan 2009 22:16:56 -0000 X-YMail-OSG: vOqMTBgVM1koemRPW2JjNS9L6890OghopWnCgeZagfsqMYx4JCFhusX3hxo7iAi_0.1YU5jYD_1VtmfsBP5fASDBIMWTbTxnftZ.i2fUUWRqAGBq.3_xP1EKDRE_1McOKv9x5U8_D_4h1AhjttpOVCtsEoPgGiEMERwD12EDfXTW1b4FF.2xeQcn.x9v X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: ymail-3 Message-ID: <4973AA56.1040201@netconfcentral.com> Date: Sun, 18 Jan 2009 14:16:54 -0800 From: Andy Bierman User-Agent: Thunderbird 2.0.0.19 (Windows/20081209) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Martin Bjorklund References: <49713C05.2060308@andybierman.com> <200901182027.n0IKR7uh034713@idle.juniper.net> <20090118.224213.101829185.mbj@tail-f.com> In-Reply-To: <20090118.224213.101829185.mbj@tail-f.com> Cc: netmod@ietf.org, andy@andybierman.com Subject: Re: [netmod] must-stmt for non-config nodes X-BeenThere: netmod@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.9 Precedence: list List-Id: NETMOD WG list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; Format="flowed" Sender: netmod-bounces@ietf.org Errors-To: netmod-bounces@ietf.org Martin Bjorklund wrote: > Phil Shafer wrote: >>> The previous rule made sense: If the node containing >>> the must-stmt is config=true, then the expression cannot >>> reference config=false nodes. That actually works >>> for either standard database target. >> Personally, I completely agree that the "cannot reference" rule >> should remain, but the concensus was (I believe) to add this >> odd "strict false" cruft, which breaks this rule. This leasds >> to config -> non-config references. > > No that's another thing. The "cannot reference" was changed into this > text which states that the accessible tree (in which the must stmt is > evaluated) is made up of all config=true nodes for the config > datastores. Thus, config=false nodes are never part of the accessible > tree for must expression on a config=true node. But the new thing is > that it changed from a MUST NOT to this text. The reason was brought > up by Andy, I believe. If a non-config node is referenced, it will > evaluate to empty, just as if a non-existing node is referenced. > Consider this: > > container x { > config true; > leaf a { > config false; > type int32; > } > leaf b { > config true; > must "../a > ."; // (1) > must "../z > ."; // (2) > type int32; > } > } > > Both (1) and (2) will always evaluate to false, since in (1) a is not > part of the accessible tree, and in (2), there is no such node z. > So no problem then. The YANG module contains a must expression that always resolves to false. Except that means the startup config-load will always fail, any edit-config to will always fail, and any commit of will always fail. If /x/b exists, then the agent stops working correctly. IMO, that needs more than a warning. Unless you have a use-case why must XPath expressions that always resolve to false are needed. Is the intent of the must-stmts above to prevent the leaf /x/b from ever existing? Consider an agent that uses a continue-on-error startup load (so /x/b will get tossed during the load), or any edit to to create /x/b will fail, or any commit containing /x/b will fail. That is all these must-stmts will accomplish. Does the draft even specify what an agent is supposed to do if a must-stmt inside a config=false node occurs? When is this detected? When is the "I'm a buggy agent" notification generated? ;-) IMO, a must-stmt MUST NOT be a constant expression which evaluates to false. leaf duh { type string; must "3 > 7"; } Same effect as above. Legal XPath. Broken YANG. > This is consistent with how XPath evaluators work on XML instance > documents. > > > /martin > ______ Andy _______________________________________________ netmod mailing list netmod@ietf.org https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/netmod From netmod-bounces@ietf.org Sun Jan 18 19:20:21 2009 Return-Path: X-Original-To: netmod-archive@ietf.org Delivered-To: ietfarch-netmod-archive@core3.amsl.com Received: from [127.0.0.1] (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 80B4128C186; Sun, 18 Jan 2009 19:20:21 -0800 (PST) X-Original-To: netmod@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: netmod@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id A111C28C18B for ; Sun, 18 Jan 2009 19:20:19 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.165 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.165 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=-0.100, BAYES_00=-2.599, IP_NOT_FRIENDLY=0.334, J_CHICKENPOX_64=0.6, J_CHICKENPOX_65=0.6] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id pVUBwYBesAG0 for ; Sun, 18 Jan 2009 19:20:18 -0800 (PST) Received: from smtp118.sbc.mail.sp1.yahoo.com (smtp118.sbc.mail.sp1.yahoo.com [69.147.64.91]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with SMTP id DFCEE28C187 for ; Sun, 18 Jan 2009 19:20:18 -0800 (PST) Received: (qmail 82846 invoked from network); 19 Jan 2009 03:20:02 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO ?127.0.0.1?) (andy@67.122.139.105 with plain) by smtp118.sbc.mail.sp1.yahoo.com with SMTP; 19 Jan 2009 03:20:01 -0000 X-YMail-OSG: l_EYCbUVM1nNEQM79tBdaN7CU414I1pIqyVuYtwOezPdHsPQz8lukslJklqCdPnyi1Lhd5nRX9kaYsw3VNz2y6xoxIor5Dm3ugrMCO1aZPD2uwHzBbJqnSVHQOimOqH9dlxKFMHkyfKRDRaJszK_Qu5ToFA.bNeMPeD.E9IsnwWFNXrdz8o4QhXwNX4s X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: ymail-3 Message-ID: <4973F15F.4020302@netconfcentral.com> Date: Sun, 18 Jan 2009 19:19:59 -0800 From: Andy Bierman User-Agent: Thunderbird 2.0.0.19 (Windows/20081209) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Martin Bjorklund References: <49713C05.2060308@andybierman.com> <200901182027.n0IKR7uh034713@idle.juniper.net> <20090118.224213.101829185.mbj@tail-f.com> In-Reply-To: <20090118.224213.101829185.mbj@tail-f.com> Cc: netmod@ietf.org, andy@andybierman.com Subject: Re: [netmod] must-stmt for non-config nodes X-BeenThere: netmod@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.9 Precedence: list List-Id: NETMOD WG list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; Format="flowed" Sender: netmod-bounces@ietf.org Errors-To: netmod-bounces@ietf.org Martin Bjorklund wrote: > Phil Shafer wrote: >>> The previous rule made sense: If the node containing >>> the must-stmt is config=true, then the expression cannot >>> reference config=false nodes. That actually works >>> for either standard database target. >> Personally, I completely agree that the "cannot reference" rule >> should remain, but the concensus was (I believe) to add this >> odd "strict false" cruft, which breaks this rule. This leasds >> to config -> non-config references. > > No that's another thing. The "cannot reference" was changed into this > text which states that the accessible tree (in which the must stmt is > evaluated) is made up of all config=true nodes for the config > datastores. Thus, config=false nodes are never part of the accessible > tree for must expression on a config=true node. But the new thing is > that it changed from a MUST NOT to this text. The reason was brought > up by Andy, I believe. If a non-config node is referenced, it will > evaluate to empty, just as if a non-existing node is referenced. > Consider this: > OK -- I think there is agreement that non-config nodes are not present for config=true must tests. The only issue is whether it is just a warning or an error. It can be difficult to determine at YANG compile time that a must-stmt result will always be false on every (or any) agent. Leaving it as a warning is OK because the operation-failed must-violation from the agent is the real determining factor, not the YANG compiler messages. I think there needs to be a clear warning in the draft that must and when expressions will produce empty results for any non-config nodes referenced in the expression. > container x { > config true; > leaf a { > config false; > type int32; > } > leaf b { > config true; > must "../a > ."; // (1) > must "../z > ."; // (2) > type int32; > } > } > > Both (1) and (2) will always evaluate to false, since in (1) a is not > part of the accessible tree, and in (2), there is no such node z. > > This is consistent with how XPath evaluators work on XML instance > documents. > > > /martin > ___ Andy _______________________________________________ netmod mailing list netmod@ietf.org https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/netmod From netmod-bounces@ietf.org Mon Jan 19 09:40:42 2009 Return-Path: X-Original-To: netmod-archive@ietf.org Delivered-To: ietfarch-netmod-archive@core3.amsl.com Received: from [127.0.0.1] (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1CFC13A698C; Mon, 19 Jan 2009 09:40:42 -0800 (PST) X-Original-To: netmod@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: netmod@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id B6A823A693C for ; Mon, 19 Jan 2009 09:40:40 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.065 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.065 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=0.185, BAYES_00=-2.599, HELO_EQ_CZ=0.445, HOST_EQ_CZ=0.904] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 7qbXvltMxvBc for ; Mon, 19 Jan 2009 09:40:40 -0800 (PST) Received: from office2.cesnet.cz (office2.cesnet.cz [195.113.144.244]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id E18C33A68BF for ; Mon, 19 Jan 2009 09:40:39 -0800 (PST) Received: from [172.29.2.201] (asus-gx.lhotka.cesnet.cz [195.113.161.161]) by office2.cesnet.cz (Postfix) with ESMTP id 59345D800BD for ; Mon, 19 Jan 2009 18:40:23 +0100 (CET) From: Ladislav Lhotka To: NETMOD Working Group Organization: CESNET Date: Mon, 19 Jan 2009 18:40:23 +0100 Message-Id: <1232386823.28489.42.camel@missotis> Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Evolution 2.22.3.1 Subject: [netmod] when statement X-BeenThere: netmod@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.9 Precedence: list List-Id: NETMOD WG list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: netmod-bounces@ietf.org Errors-To: netmod-bounces@ietf.org Hi, in sec. 7.19.5 of yang-03, it is not clear what data definition statement is made conditional by the when statement - i.e., that it is the parent statement of when. I propose the following rewording: The "when" statement makes its parent data definition statement conditional. The node defined by the parent data definition statement, together with its children, is only valid when the condition specified by the "when" statement is satisfied. The statement's argument is an XPath expression, which is used to formally specify this condition. If the XPath expression conceptually evaluates to "true" for a particular instance, then the node defined by the data definition statement is valid, otherwise it is not. Lada -- Ladislav Lhotka, CESNET PGP Key ID: E74E8C0C _______________________________________________ netmod mailing list netmod@ietf.org https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/netmod From netmod-bounces@ietf.org Mon Jan 19 14:44:43 2009 Return-Path: X-Original-To: netmod-archive@ietf.org Delivered-To: ietfarch-netmod-archive@core3.amsl.com Received: from [127.0.0.1] (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id E54173A69A0; Mon, 19 Jan 2009 14:44:43 -0800 (PST) X-Original-To: netmod@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: netmod@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5D92C3A69CA for ; Mon, 19 Jan 2009 14:44:41 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.74 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.74 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=0.525, BAYES_00=-2.599, IP_NOT_FRIENDLY=0.334] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id twn6cPRrWjvp for ; Mon, 19 Jan 2009 14:44:40 -0800 (PST) Received: from smtp123.sbc.mail.sp1.yahoo.com (smtp123.sbc.mail.sp1.yahoo.com [69.147.64.96]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with SMTP id 693AF3A69A0 for ; Mon, 19 Jan 2009 14:44:39 -0800 (PST) Received: (qmail 83397 invoked from network); 19 Jan 2009 22:44:23 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO ?127.0.0.1?) (andy@67.122.139.105 with plain) by smtp123.sbc.mail.sp1.yahoo.com with SMTP; 19 Jan 2009 22:44:21 -0000 X-YMail-OSG: Y2meThwVM1lyoisjugEvuQmXONdzqDTh1MuvSmzuKeSAn.TuYxHFzJTSOTSplmT_3wEox3BUwY1lTV.pU0z7CrWEhOcVmZVULS8ICBfNTDJkuXyXPBMZHvhwPJwHQA6CuhgAuMStChlqeZlM9__gPvK6 X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: ymail-3 Message-ID: <49750243.40209@netconfcentral.com> Date: Mon, 19 Jan 2009 14:44:19 -0800 From: Andy Bierman User-Agent: Thunderbird 2.0.0.19 (Windows/20081209) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: NETMOD Working Group Subject: [netmod] some yang-03 comments X-BeenThere: netmod@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.9 Precedence: list List-Id: NETMOD WG list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; Format="flowed" Sender: netmod-bounces@ietf.org Errors-To: netmod-bounces@ietf.org Hi, Sections 7.1.5 (import) and 7.1.6 (include) do not clearly state what happens if the optional revision sub-clause specifies a revision that the compiler cannot find. I assume a fatal error occurs, and no [sub-]module is used at all for that import or include. These sections do not say which version of a module the compiler should use if the optional revision is not specified. I thought it was supposed to indicate that the most recent must be used. There is no text in the entire document formally defining a module version field, or how to associate the contents of the revision sub-clause of import/include to the contents of a YANG module somehow. It is assumed that the most recent revision-stmt date identifies the module, but this is not specified, and it is not enforceable. Section 7.1.9 says a module SHOULD have a revision clause, but it is not mandatory. There needs to be a standard way to associate some portion of the contents of a YANG module with the revision requested in an import or include statement. It MUST be usable for any valid YANG module. It MUST be deterministic, and MUST NOT rely on suggested file naming conventions. There is also a change in the draft that says the specified YANG clause order SHOULD be used (not MUST). IMO, the ABNF order MUST be followed. Andy _______________________________________________ netmod mailing list netmod@ietf.org https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/netmod From netmod-bounces@ietf.org Tue Jan 20 01:28:13 2009 Return-Path: X-Original-To: netmod-archive@ietf.org Delivered-To: ietfarch-netmod-archive@core3.amsl.com Received: from [127.0.0.1] (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 675083A6800; Tue, 20 Jan 2009 01:28:13 -0800 (PST) X-Original-To: netmod@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: netmod@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4A87F3A6989 for ; Tue, 20 Jan 2009 01:28:12 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.069 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.069 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=0.181, BAYES_00=-2.599, HELO_EQ_CZ=0.445, HOST_EQ_CZ=0.904] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id U7jfxKAXwwHv for ; Tue, 20 Jan 2009 01:28:11 -0800 (PST) Received: from office2.cesnet.cz (office2.cesnet.cz [195.113.144.244]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 50AAF3A6800 for ; Tue, 20 Jan 2009 01:28:11 -0800 (PST) Received: from [172.29.2.201] (asus-gx.lhotka.cesnet.cz [195.113.161.161]) by office2.cesnet.cz (Postfix) with ESMTP id B8C28D800C0 for ; Tue, 20 Jan 2009 10:27:54 +0100 (CET) From: Ladislav Lhotka To: netmod@ietf.org In-Reply-To: <49750243.40209@netconfcentral.com> References: <49750243.40209@netconfcentral.com> Organization: CESNET Date: Tue, 20 Jan 2009 10:27:54 +0100 Message-Id: <1232443674.6735.14.camel@missotis> Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Evolution 2.22.3.1 Subject: Re: [netmod] some yang-03 comments X-BeenThere: netmod@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.9 Precedence: list List-Id: NETMOD WG list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 Sender: netmod-bounces@ietf.org Errors-To: netmod-bounces@ietf.org QW5keSBCaWVybWFuIHDDrcWhZSB2IFBvIDE5LiAwMS4gMjAwOSB2IDE0OjQ0IC0wODAwOgo+IAo+ IFRoZXNlIHNlY3Rpb25zIGRvIG5vdCBzYXkgd2hpY2ggdmVyc2lvbiBvZiBhIG1vZHVsZQo+IHRo ZSBjb21waWxlciBzaG91bGQgdXNlIGlmIHRoZSBvcHRpb25hbCByZXZpc2lvbgo+IGlzIG5vdCBz cGVjaWZpZWQuICBJIHRob3VnaHQgaXQgd2FzIHN1cHBvc2VkCj4gdG8gaW5kaWNhdGUgdGhhdCB0 aGUgbW9zdCByZWNlbnQgbXVzdCBiZSB1c2VkLgoKV2VsbCwgYnV0IHdoYXQgaXMgdGhlIG1vc3Qg cmVjZW50PyBUaGUgdXBncmFkZXMgc2hvdWxkIGJlIGNvbnRyb2xsZWQsCkknZCBwcmVmZXIgYSBt ZWNoYW5pc20gc2ltaWxhciB0byBYTUwgY2F0YWxvZ3MsIHdoaWNoIGlzIGEgbG9jYWwKY29uZmln dXJhdGlvbiBmaWxlIHdoZXJlIGFuIFVSSSBpcyBhc3NvY2lhdGVkIHRvIGEgZml4ZWQgcmVzb3Vy Y2UsCmVpdGhlciBsb2NhbCBvciByZW1vdGUuCgo+IAo+IFRoZXJlIGlzIG5vIHRleHQgaW4gdGhl IGVudGlyZSBkb2N1bWVudCBmb3JtYWxseSBkZWZpbmluZwo+IGEgbW9kdWxlIHZlcnNpb24gZmll bGQsIG9yIGhvdyB0byBhc3NvY2lhdGUgdGhlCj4gY29udGVudHMgb2YgdGhlIHJldmlzaW9uIHN1 Yi1jbGF1c2Ugb2YgaW1wb3J0L2luY2x1ZGUKPiB0byB0aGUgY29udGVudHMgb2YgYSBZQU5HIG1v ZHVsZSBzb21laG93Lgo+IAo+IEl0IGlzIGFzc3VtZWQgdGhhdCB0aGUgbW9zdCByZWNlbnQgcmV2 aXNpb24tc3RtdAo+IGRhdGUgaWRlbnRpZmllcyB0aGUgbW9kdWxlLCBidXQgdGhpcyBpcyBub3Qg c3BlY2lmaWVkLAo+IGFuZCBpdCBpcyBub3QgZW5mb3JjZWFibGUuCj4gCj4gU2VjdGlvbiA3LjEu OSBzYXlzIGEgbW9kdWxlIFNIT1VMRCBoYXZlIGEgcmV2aXNpb24gY2xhdXNlLAo+IGJ1dCBpdCBp cyBub3QgbWFuZGF0b3J5LgoKWWVzLCBhbmQgbW9yZW92ZXIgdGhlIHJldmVyc2Ugb3JkZXIgb2Yg cmV2aXNpb24gc3RhdGVtZW50cyBpcyBub3QKcHJlc2NyaWJlZCAoanVzdCBTSE9VTEQpLCBzbyBv bmUgY2Fubm90IGV2ZW4gcmVseSBvbiB0aGUgZmlyc3Qgc3RhdGVtZW50CmJlaW5nIHRoZSBtb3N0 IHJlY2VudCByZXZpc2lvbi4KCj4gCj4gVGhlcmUgbmVlZHMgdG8gYmUgYSBzdGFuZGFyZCB3YXkg dG8gYXNzb2NpYXRlIHNvbWUKPiBwb3J0aW9uIG9mIHRoZSBjb250ZW50cyBvZiBhIFlBTkcgbW9k dWxlIHdpdGgKPiB0aGUgcmV2aXNpb24gcmVxdWVzdGVkIGluIGFuIGltcG9ydCBvciBpbmNsdWRl IHN0YXRlbWVudC4KPiBJdCBNVVNUIGJlIHVzYWJsZSBmb3IgYW55IHZhbGlkIFlBTkcgbW9kdWxl Lgo+IEl0IE1VU1QgYmUgZGV0ZXJtaW5pc3RpYywgYW5kIE1VU1QgTk9UIHJlbHkgb24KPiBzdWdn ZXN0ZWQgZmlsZSBuYW1pbmcgY29udmVudGlvbnMuCgorMS4KCj4gCj4gVGhlcmUgaXMgYWxzbyBh IGNoYW5nZSBpbiB0aGUgZHJhZnQgdGhhdCBzYXlzIHRoZQo+IHNwZWNpZmllZCBZQU5HIGNsYXVz ZSBvcmRlciBTSE9VTEQgYmUgdXNlZCAobm90IE1VU1QpLgo+IElNTywgdGhlIEFCTkYgb3JkZXIg TVVTVCBiZSBmb2xsb3dlZC4KCldoZXJlIGlzIHRoaXM/CgpMYWRhCgotLSAKTGFkaXNsYXYgTGhv dGthLCBDRVNORVQKUEdQIEtleSBJRDogRTc0RThDMEMKCl9fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19f X19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fCm5ldG1vZCBtYWlsaW5nIGxpc3QKbmV0bW9kQGlldGYu b3JnCmh0dHBzOi8vd3d3LmlldGYub3JnL21haWxtYW4vbGlzdGluZm8vbmV0bW9kCg== From netmod-bounces@ietf.org Tue Jan 20 06:54:06 2009 Return-Path: X-Original-To: netmod-archive@ietf.org Delivered-To: ietfarch-netmod-archive@core3.amsl.com Received: from [127.0.0.1] (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4042E3A6947; 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(andy@67.122.139.105 with plain) by smtp121.sbc.mail.sp1.yahoo.com with SMTP; 20 Jan 2009 14:53:46 -0000 X-YMail-OSG: o44o6XsVM1kwmt2yCCRpmoaDkgULivDok8Y0s9xGzfukht0gYGw9OFuW.yy06vIQ5CeqPso4zzPQfHWCHjusDcIb0ohUJ7CCcuIcKug.GACRpJSiI0PRSSVMy6LYccrRa6uSdRWKh5fn5Dxqs0LKueQ9 X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: ymail-3 Message-ID: <4975E578.50609@netconfcentral.com> Date: Tue, 20 Jan 2009 06:53:44 -0800 From: Andy Bierman User-Agent: Thunderbird 2.0.0.19 (Windows/20081209) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Ladislav Lhotka References: <49750243.40209@netconfcentral.com> <1232443674.6735.14.camel@missotis> In-Reply-To: <1232443674.6735.14.camel@missotis> Cc: netmod@ietf.org Subject: Re: [netmod] some yang-03 comments X-BeenThere: netmod@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.9 Precedence: list List-Id: NETMOD WG list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"; Format="flowed" Sender: netmod-bounces@ietf.org Errors-To: 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ZGVyIE1VU1QgYmUgZm9sbG93ZWQuCj4gCj4gV2hlcmUgaXMgdGhpcz8KPiAKCgo3LjEsIHBhcmEg NC4KSU1PLCBpdCBzaG91bGQgc2F5IHRoaXMgaXMgYSBzdWdnZXN0ZWQgb3JkZXIsCmJ1dCB0aGUg cmVhbCBvcmRlciBpbiB0aGUgQUJORiBuZWVkcyB0byBiZSBmb2xsb3dlZC4KCgo+IExhZGEKPiAK CkFuZHkKCl9fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fCm5l dG1vZCBtYWlsaW5nIGxpc3QKbmV0bW9kQGlldGYub3JnCmh0dHBzOi8vd3d3LmlldGYub3JnL21h aWxtYW4vbGlzdGluZm8vbmV0bW9kCg== From netmod-bounces@ietf.org Tue Jan 20 07:11:10 2009 Return-Path: X-Original-To: netmod-archive@ietf.org Delivered-To: ietfarch-netmod-archive@core3.amsl.com Received: from [127.0.0.1] (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id B863E3A6947; Tue, 20 Jan 2009 07:11:10 -0800 (PST) X-Original-To: netmod@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: netmod@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2BCC228C1F6 for ; Tue, 20 Jan 2009 07:11:09 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.072 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.072 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=0.178, BAYES_00=-2.599, HELO_EQ_CZ=0.445, HOST_EQ_CZ=0.904] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id xLcktuMaETVs for ; Tue, 20 Jan 2009 07:11:08 -0800 (PST) Received: from office2.cesnet.cz (office2.cesnet.cz [195.113.144.244]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2C7023A6BF3 for ; Tue, 20 Jan 2009 07:10:58 -0800 (PST) Received: from [172.29.2.201] (asus-gx.lhotka.cesnet.cz [195.113.161.161]) by office2.cesnet.cz (Postfix) with ESMTP id D3262D800C5; Tue, 20 Jan 2009 16:10:41 +0100 (CET) From: Ladislav Lhotka To: Andy Bierman In-Reply-To: <4975E578.50609@netconfcentral.com> References: <49750243.40209@netconfcentral.com> <1232443674.6735.14.camel@missotis> <4975E578.50609@netconfcentral.com> Organization: CESNET Date: Tue, 20 Jan 2009 16:10:41 +0100 Message-Id: <1232464242.20884.16.camel@missotis> Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Evolution 2.22.3.1 Cc: netmod@ietf.org Subject: Re: [netmod] some yang-03 comments X-BeenThere: netmod@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.9 Precedence: list List-Id: NETMOD WG list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 Sender: netmod-bounces@ietf.org Errors-To: netmod-bounces@ietf.org QW5keSBCaWVybWFuIHDDrcWhZSB2IMOadCAyMC4gMDEuIDIwMDkgdiAwNjo1MyAtMDgwMDoKPiA+ IFdlbGwsIGJ1dCB3aGF0IGlzIHRoZSBtb3N0IHJlY2VudD8gVGhlIHVwZ3JhZGVzIHNob3VsZCBi ZSBjb250cm9sbGVkLAo+ID4gSSdkIHByZWZlciBhIG1lY2hhbmlzbSBzaW1pbGFyIHRvIFhNTCBj YXRhbG9ncywgd2hpY2ggaXMgYSBsb2NhbAo+ID4gY29uZmlndXJhdGlvbiBmaWxlIHdoZXJlIGFu IFVSSSBpcyBhc3NvY2lhdGVkIHRvIGEgZml4ZWQgcmVzb3VyY2UsCj4gPiBlaXRoZXIgbG9jYWwg b3IgcmVtb3RlLgo+ID4gCj4gCj4gVGhlIG1vc3QgcmVjZW50IGlzIHRoZSBvbmUgd2l0aCB0aGUg aGlnaGVzdCB2YWx1ZQo+IHN0cmluZyBmb3IgdGhlIHJldmlzaW9uIGRhdGUgKHN0cmNtcCwgbm90 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(andy@67.122.139.105 with plain) by smtp116.sbc.mail.sp1.yahoo.com with SMTP; 20 Jan 2009 15:24:56 -0000 X-YMail-OSG: X4iklBEVM1nDW9Qk_BdcPsjDN8xj28TiL3bRUpYG97ljZfUwk48XD5I_StefEPM3caitp4YxNULnswBXl5ZyMI.6ZakDZRjghVeh6RQxhI5vSAeDUfQ6HURCzkWQVO7dFJfYYiYoQHaHpNC53em1b_PQ X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: ymail-3 Message-ID: <4975ECC6.4070006@netconfcentral.com> Date: Tue, 20 Jan 2009 07:24:54 -0800 From: Andy Bierman User-Agent: Thunderbird 2.0.0.19 (Windows/20081209) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Ladislav Lhotka References: <49750243.40209@netconfcentral.com> <1232443674.6735.14.camel@missotis> <4975E578.50609@netconfcentral.com> <1232464242.20884.16.camel@missotis> In-Reply-To: <1232464242.20884.16.camel@missotis> Cc: netmod@ietf.org Subject: Re: [netmod] some yang-03 comments X-BeenThere: netmod@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.9 Precedence: list List-Id: NETMOD WG list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 Content-Type: text/plain; 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Tue, 20 Jan 2009 17:30:41 +0100 (CET) Received: from elstar.local (elstar.iuhb02.iu-bremen.de [10.50.231.133]) by hermes.jacobs-university.de (Postfix) with ESMTP id 78E9DC0016; Tue, 20 Jan 2009 17:30:41 +0100 (CET) Received: by elstar.local (Postfix, from userid 501) id E180D8FE56C; Tue, 20 Jan 2009 17:30:37 +0100 (CET) Date: Tue, 20 Jan 2009 17:30:37 +0100 From: Juergen Schoenwaelder To: Andy Bierman Message-ID: <20090120163037.GA27083@elstar.local> Mail-Followup-To: Andy Bierman , Ladislav Lhotka , netmod@ietf.org References: <49750243.40209@netconfcentral.com> <1232443674.6735.14.camel@missotis> <4975E578.50609@netconfcentral.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <4975E578.50609@netconfcentral.com> User-Agent: Mutt/1.5.19 (2009-01-05) Cc: netmod@ietf.org Subject: Re: [netmod] some yang-03 comments X-BeenThere: netmod@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.9 Precedence: list Reply-To: j.schoenwaelder@jacobs-university.de List-Id: NETMOD WG list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: netmod-bounces@ietf.org Errors-To: netmod-bounces@ietf.org On Tue, Jan 20, 2009 at 06:53:44AM -0800, Andy Bierman wrote: > SMIv2 has the LAST-UPDATED clause (but it's optional). Probably not important, but LAST-UPDATED is not optional. /js -- Juergen Schoenwaelder Jacobs University Bremen gGmbH Phone: +49 421 200 3587 Campus Ring 1, 28759 Bremen, Germany Fax: +49 421 200 3103 _______________________________________________ netmod mailing list netmod@ietf.org https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/netmod From netmod-bounces@ietf.org Tue Jan 20 13:33:31 2009 Return-Path: X-Original-To: netmod-archive@ietf.org Delivered-To: ietfarch-netmod-archive@core3.amsl.com Received: from [127.0.0.1] (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7DD593A67C1; Tue, 20 Jan 2009 13:33:31 -0800 (PST) X-Original-To: netmod@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: netmod@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id C01DA3A6893 for ; Tue, 20 Jan 2009 13:33:30 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.965 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.965 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=0.300, BAYES_00=-2.599, IP_NOT_FRIENDLY=0.334] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id eHmHpxnRqgAI for ; Tue, 20 Jan 2009 13:33:30 -0800 (PST) Received: from smtp120.sbc.mail.sp1.yahoo.com (smtp120.sbc.mail.sp1.yahoo.com [69.147.64.93]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with SMTP id 221EF3A67C1 for ; Tue, 20 Jan 2009 13:33:29 -0800 (PST) Received: (qmail 82525 invoked from network); 20 Jan 2009 21:33:13 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO ?127.0.0.1?) (andy@67.122.139.105 with plain) by smtp120.sbc.mail.sp1.yahoo.com with SMTP; 20 Jan 2009 21:33:11 -0000 X-YMail-OSG: dHaicoAVM1ljgyK2bj57w9a7O4qJFTh5RdhcDg1ZWjp6RHqOV_SRr1JT.h5MM.0q6Kqlu.nhACdfEMaguUJdB3jolNtnyNCLN38z9w3PEgnBSaaFfshYCWtLlbmQUa5UaW_RWntqjKTDPxCHbhKX.jgD X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: ymail-3 Message-ID: <49764315.9040001@netconfcentral.com> Date: Tue, 20 Jan 2009 13:33:09 -0800 From: Andy Bierman User-Agent: Thunderbird 2.0.0.19 (Windows/20081209) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Andy Bierman , Ladislav Lhotka , netmod@ietf.org References: <49750243.40209@netconfcentral.com> <1232443674.6735.14.camel@missotis> <4975E578.50609@netconfcentral.com> <20090120163037.GA27083@elstar.local> In-Reply-To: <20090120163037.GA27083@elstar.local> Subject: Re: [netmod] some yang-03 comments X-BeenThere: netmod@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.9 Precedence: list List-Id: NETMOD WG list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; Format="flowed" Sender: netmod-bounces@ietf.org Errors-To: netmod-bounces@ietf.org Juergen Schoenwaelder wrote: > On Tue, Jan 20, 2009 at 06:53:44AM -0800, Andy Bierman wrote: > >> SMIv2 has the LAST-UPDATED clause (but it's optional). > > Probably not important, but LAST-UPDATED is not optional. > It is important. It means it has not been a burden at all to maintain this field in MIBs, so it should not be a problem to maintain it in YANG either. I prefer a new mandatory 'last-updated' or 'version' clause, rather than hunting down the optional revision-stmt with the highest value revision date. This should be way at the top, in the [sub-]module-header, before the linkage statements, so it will be easy for people and tools to identify the version immediately. > /js > Andy _______________________________________________ netmod mailing list netmod@ietf.org https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/netmod From netmod-bounces@ietf.org Tue Jan 20 14:00:02 2009 Return-Path: X-Original-To: netmod-archive@ietf.org Delivered-To: ietfarch-netmod-archive@core3.amsl.com Received: from [127.0.0.1] (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8F85B3A67C1; Tue, 20 Jan 2009 14:00:02 -0800 (PST) X-Original-To: netmod@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: netmod@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id AB7D43A67C1 for ; Tue, 20 Jan 2009 14:00:00 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.149 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.149 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=0.100, BAYES_00=-2.599, HELO_EQ_DE=0.35] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id exnNroumcTNO for ; Tue, 20 Jan 2009 13:59:59 -0800 (PST) Received: from hermes.jacobs-university.de (hermes.jacobs-university.de [212.201.44.23]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 72A1E3A6989 for ; Tue, 20 Jan 2009 13:59:59 -0800 (PST) Received: from localhost (demetrius3.jacobs-university.de [212.201.44.48]) by hermes.jacobs-university.de (Postfix) with ESMTP id 19B6EC0003; Tue, 20 Jan 2009 22:59:43 +0100 (CET) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at jacobs-university.de Received: from hermes.jacobs-university.de ([212.201.44.23]) by localhost (demetrius3.jacobs-university.de [212.201.44.32]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id plFcNKhMdFuM; Tue, 20 Jan 2009 22:59:37 +0100 (CET) Received: from elstar.local (elstar.iuhb02.iu-bremen.de [10.50.231.133]) by hermes.jacobs-university.de (Postfix) with ESMTP id 192F2C001E; Tue, 20 Jan 2009 22:59:37 +0100 (CET) Received: by elstar.local (Postfix, from userid 501) id 784568FEDB9; Tue, 20 Jan 2009 22:59:33 +0100 (CET) Date: Tue, 20 Jan 2009 22:59:33 +0100 From: Juergen Schoenwaelder To: Andy Bierman Message-ID: <20090120215933.GA27727@elstar.local> Mail-Followup-To: Andy Bierman , Ladislav Lhotka , netmod@ietf.org References: <49750243.40209@netconfcentral.com> <1232443674.6735.14.camel@missotis> <4975E578.50609@netconfcentral.com> <20090120163037.GA27083@elstar.local> <49764315.9040001@netconfcentral.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <49764315.9040001@netconfcentral.com> User-Agent: Mutt/1.5.19 (2009-01-05) Cc: netmod@ietf.org Subject: Re: [netmod] some yang-03 comments X-BeenThere: netmod@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.9 Precedence: list Reply-To: j.schoenwaelder@jacobs-university.de List-Id: NETMOD WG list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: netmod-bounces@ietf.org Errors-To: netmod-bounces@ietf.org On Tue, Jan 20, 2009 at 01:33:09PM -0800, Andy Bierman wrote: > Juergen Schoenwaelder wrote: >> On Tue, Jan 20, 2009 at 06:53:44AM -0800, Andy Bierman wrote: >> >>> SMIv2 has the LAST-UPDATED clause (but it's optional). >> >> Probably not important, but LAST-UPDATED is not optional. >> > > It is important. > It means it has not been a burden at all to maintain > this field in MIBs, so it should not be a problem > to maintain it in YANG either. That is not quite correct - or at least I see this differently. Until we added code to libsmi to check that the LAST-UPDATED value and the REVISION clauses do match, they were often out of sync. Our MIB guidelines meanwhile require that a REVISION clause is added when a new MIB is published which is a good thing since the guidelines require more information to be in the description clause. Having a redundant "last-updated" date in another clause is for me just noise, asking for trouble if things get out of sync. Since libsmi automatically puts revision clauses into reverse chronological order, it is really not difficult to find out when a module was last updated. /js -- Juergen Schoenwaelder Jacobs University Bremen gGmbH Phone: +49 421 200 3587 Campus Ring 1, 28759 Bremen, Germany Fax: +49 421 200 3103 _______________________________________________ netmod mailing list netmod@ietf.org https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/netmod From netmod-bounces@ietf.org Tue Jan 20 14:18:21 2009 Return-Path: X-Original-To: netmod-archive@ietf.org Delivered-To: ietfarch-netmod-archive@core3.amsl.com Received: from [127.0.0.1] (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8CB673A69CF; Tue, 20 Jan 2009 14:18:21 -0800 (PST) X-Original-To: netmod@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: netmod@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id B0B523A69CF for ; Tue, 20 Jan 2009 14:18:20 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.17 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.17 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=0.430, BAYES_00=-2.599] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id OC6OTvM0oVCR for ; Tue, 20 Jan 2009 14:18:20 -0800 (PST) Received: from smtp107.sbc.mail.mud.yahoo.com (smtp107.sbc.mail.mud.yahoo.com [68.142.198.206]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with SMTP id D1F983A688B for ; Tue, 20 Jan 2009 14:18:19 -0800 (PST) Received: (qmail 97588 invoked from network); 20 Jan 2009 22:18:03 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO ?127.0.0.1?) (andy@67.122.139.105 with plain) by smtp107.sbc.mail.mud.yahoo.com with SMTP; 20 Jan 2009 22:18:02 -0000 X-YMail-OSG: 4hrRQw4VM1n29N4hF2on.YPQ92r4juNevMiiOPbPJgjk51WMXhutq5amBG5XmL4nRYooN8zAmtrjCHZckdu8sOeN.lzFI868bh4NfDTZsLD0zfyVEOLnhL83WPXBpbZaumEP_MeESOps.sFP95JLm74U X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: ymail-3 Message-ID: <49764D97.1050208@netconfcentral.com> Date: Tue, 20 Jan 2009 14:17:59 -0800 From: Andy Bierman User-Agent: Thunderbird 2.0.0.19 (Windows/20081209) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Andy Bierman , Ladislav Lhotka , netmod@ietf.org References: <49750243.40209@netconfcentral.com> <1232443674.6735.14.camel@missotis> <4975E578.50609@netconfcentral.com> <20090120163037.GA27083@elstar.local> <49764315.9040001@netconfcentral.com> <20090120215933.GA27727@elstar.local> In-Reply-To: <20090120215933.GA27727@elstar.local> Subject: Re: [netmod] some yang-03 comments X-BeenThere: netmod@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.9 Precedence: list List-Id: NETMOD WG list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; Format="flowed" Sender: netmod-bounces@ietf.org Errors-To: netmod-bounces@ietf.org Juergen Schoenwaelder wrote: > On Tue, Jan 20, 2009 at 01:33:09PM -0800, Andy Bierman wrote: >> Juergen Schoenwaelder wrote: >>> On Tue, Jan 20, 2009 at 06:53:44AM -0800, Andy Bierman wrote: >>> >>>> SMIv2 has the LAST-UPDATED clause (but it's optional). >>> Probably not important, but LAST-UPDATED is not optional. >>> >> It is important. >> It means it has not been a burden at all to maintain >> this field in MIBs, so it should not be a problem >> to maintain it in YANG either. > > That is not quite correct - or at least I see this differently. Until > we added code to libsmi to check that the LAST-UPDATED value and the > REVISION clauses do match, they were often out of sync. Our MIB > guidelines meanwhile require that a REVISION clause is added when a > new MIB is published which is a good thing since the guidelines > require more information to be in the description clause. Having a > redundant "last-updated" date in another clause is for me just noise, > asking for trouble if things get out of sync. Since libsmi > automatically puts revision clauses into reverse chronological order, > it is really not difficult to find out when a module was last updated. > So what is the version of a module which has no revision clauses? What version is retrieved if no revision is specified in the import or include? I do not care what field is used, as long as it is mandatory. I prefer that it is before the linkage statements. It is important that import or include by version be inter-operable, and IMO it currently is not. > /js > Andy _______________________________________________ netmod mailing list netmod@ietf.org https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/netmod From netmod-bounces@ietf.org Tue Jan 20 15:31:58 2009 Return-Path: X-Original-To: netmod-archive@ietf.org Delivered-To: ietfarch-netmod-archive@core3.amsl.com Received: from [127.0.0.1] (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id B38AA3A6819; Tue, 20 Jan 2009 15:31:58 -0800 (PST) X-Original-To: netmod@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: netmod@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 94AEB3A67F9 for ; Tue, 20 Jan 2009 15:31:57 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.15 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.15 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=0.099, BAYES_00=-2.599, HELO_EQ_DE=0.35] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id fatbmk6ZwdIP for ; Tue, 20 Jan 2009 15:31:56 -0800 (PST) Received: from hermes.jacobs-university.de (hermes.jacobs-university.de [212.201.44.23]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 03A8B3A6819 for ; Tue, 20 Jan 2009 15:31:56 -0800 (PST) Received: from localhost (demetrius4.jacobs-university.de [212.201.44.49]) by hermes.jacobs-university.de (Postfix) with ESMTP id 46D23C0051; Wed, 21 Jan 2009 00:31:39 +0100 (CET) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at jacobs-university.de Received: from hermes.jacobs-university.de ([212.201.44.23]) by localhost (demetrius4.jacobs-university.de [212.201.44.32]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id vHcbvCUnZh0j; Wed, 21 Jan 2009 00:31:33 +0100 (CET) Received: from elstar.local (elstar.iuhb02.iu-bremen.de [10.50.231.133]) by hermes.jacobs-university.de (Postfix) with ESMTP id 63773C001E; Wed, 21 Jan 2009 00:31:33 +0100 (CET) Received: by elstar.local (Postfix, from userid 501) id CE0DF8FEF05; Wed, 21 Jan 2009 00:31:29 +0100 (CET) Date: Wed, 21 Jan 2009 00:31:29 +0100 From: Juergen Schoenwaelder To: Andy Bierman Message-ID: <20090120233129.GA27812@elstar.local> Mail-Followup-To: Andy Bierman , Ladislav Lhotka , netmod@ietf.org References: <49750243.40209@netconfcentral.com> <1232443674.6735.14.camel@missotis> <4975E578.50609@netconfcentral.com> <20090120163037.GA27083@elstar.local> <49764315.9040001@netconfcentral.com> <20090120215933.GA27727@elstar.local> <49764D97.1050208@netconfcentral.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <49764D97.1050208@netconfcentral.com> User-Agent: Mutt/1.5.19 (2009-01-05) Cc: netmod@ietf.org Subject: Re: [netmod] some yang-03 comments X-BeenThere: netmod@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.9 Precedence: list Reply-To: j.schoenwaelder@jacobs-university.de List-Id: NETMOD WG list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: netmod-bounces@ietf.org Errors-To: netmod-bounces@ietf.org On Tue, Jan 20, 2009 at 02:17:59PM -0800, Andy Bierman wrote: > So what is the version of a module which has no revision clauses? I thought I made it clear in my original comment that my SMIv2 clarification might not be relevant for this thread. > What version is retrieved if no revision is specified in > the import or include? > > I do not care what field is used, as long as it is mandatory. And I prefer to avoid redundant fields. Perhaps we are even in agreement (except perhaps the placement). /js -- Juergen Schoenwaelder Jacobs University Bremen gGmbH Phone: +49 421 200 3587 Campus Ring 1, 28759 Bremen, Germany Fax: +49 421 200 3103 _______________________________________________ netmod mailing list netmod@ietf.org https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/netmod From netmod-bounces@ietf.org Tue Jan 20 15:48:23 2009 Return-Path: X-Original-To: netmod-archive@ietf.org Delivered-To: ietfarch-netmod-archive@core3.amsl.com Received: from [127.0.0.1] (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id E74AA3A67B6; Tue, 20 Jan 2009 15:48:23 -0800 (PST) X-Original-To: netmod@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: netmod@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 924113A6A33 for ; Tue, 20 Jan 2009 15:48:22 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.05 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.05 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=0.215, BAYES_00=-2.599, IP_NOT_FRIENDLY=0.334] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id Efhs23p7JJpq for ; Tue, 20 Jan 2009 15:48:21 -0800 (PST) Received: from smtp126.sbc.mail.sp1.yahoo.com (smtp126.sbc.mail.sp1.yahoo.com [69.147.65.185]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with SMTP id D372D3A67B6 for ; Tue, 20 Jan 2009 15:48:21 -0800 (PST) Received: (qmail 68779 invoked from network); 20 Jan 2009 23:48:05 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO ?127.0.0.1?) (andy@67.122.139.105 with plain) by smtp126.sbc.mail.sp1.yahoo.com with SMTP; 20 Jan 2009 23:48:03 -0000 X-YMail-OSG: BDfbwFMVM1lTWGj.pCKt8LZq4iQSIBPsr_R28t5gTFrw3qIZQHvfgHZ3NTg561_vM41rK.je3x6NKvrccwJwlP0fOdq4xO1evgcJ75wnVZjn8BaSUig4kYR_JLI.oReFAuco22512x8kZxsWfUwAg7xH X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: ymail-3 Message-ID: <497662B2.4050308@netconfcentral.com> Date: Tue, 20 Jan 2009 15:48:02 -0800 From: Andy Bierman User-Agent: Thunderbird 2.0.0.19 (Windows/20081209) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Andy Bierman , Ladislav Lhotka , netmod@ietf.org References: <49750243.40209@netconfcentral.com> <1232443674.6735.14.camel@missotis> <4975E578.50609@netconfcentral.com> <20090120163037.GA27083@elstar.local> <49764315.9040001@netconfcentral.com> <20090120215933.GA27727@elstar.local> <49764D97.1050208@netconfcentral.com> <20090120233129.GA27812@elstar.local> In-Reply-To: <20090120233129.GA27812@elstar.local> Subject: Re: [netmod] some yang-03 comments X-BeenThere: netmod@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.9 Precedence: list List-Id: NETMOD WG list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; Format="flowed" Sender: netmod-bounces@ietf.org Errors-To: netmod-bounces@ietf.org Juergen Schoenwaelder wrote: > On Tue, Jan 20, 2009 at 02:17:59PM -0800, Andy Bierman wrote: > >> So what is the version of a module which has no revision clauses? > > I thought I made it clear in my original comment that my SMIv2 > clarification might not be relevant for this thread. > I am referring to YANG modules. Forget SMIv2. Sorry I brought it up. >> What version is retrieved if no revision is specified in >> the import or include? >> >> I do not care what field is used, as long as it is mandatory. > > And I prefer to avoid redundant fields. Perhaps we are even in > agreement (except perhaps the placement). > I thought the consensus from the interim meeting was that the revision-stmt was going to be mandatory, and if the import/include did not specify any version, then the newest available version would be used. I do not understand what changed, or the rationale for changing it, but I object to the change. The 'suggested' file format is not a solution. There are plenty of applications (HTTP POST) that may provide a YANG module without a 'file' to contain it. Having to store a 'file name' plus the entire contents of the YANG module seems redundant and kludgey to me. > /js > Andy _______________________________________________ netmod mailing list netmod@ietf.org https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/netmod From netmod-bounces@ietf.org Tue Jan 20 22:10:42 2009 Return-Path: X-Original-To: netmod-archive@ietf.org Delivered-To: ietfarch-netmod-archive@core3.amsl.com Received: from [127.0.0.1] (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id A3EEF3A6955; Tue, 20 Jan 2009 22:10:42 -0800 (PST) X-Original-To: netmod@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: netmod@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id F05FF3A6955 for ; Tue, 20 Jan 2009 22:10:40 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.152 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.152 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=0.097, BAYES_00=-2.599, HELO_EQ_DE=0.35] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id yaEs7vz8BXIa for ; Tue, 20 Jan 2009 22:10:39 -0800 (PST) Received: from hermes.jacobs-university.de (hermes.jacobs-university.de [212.201.44.23]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id D4F893A6A05 for ; Tue, 20 Jan 2009 22:10:38 -0800 (PST) Received: from localhost (demetrius3.jacobs-university.de [212.201.44.48]) by hermes.jacobs-university.de (Postfix) with ESMTP id 13018C004A; Wed, 21 Jan 2009 07:10:22 +0100 (CET) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at jacobs-university.de Received: from hermes.jacobs-university.de ([212.201.44.23]) by localhost (demetrius3.jacobs-university.de [212.201.44.32]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id Al240LCeeJhK; Wed, 21 Jan 2009 07:10:16 +0100 (CET) Received: from elstar.local (elstar.iuhb02.iu-bremen.de [10.50.231.133]) by hermes.jacobs-university.de (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1C88AC000E; Wed, 21 Jan 2009 07:10:16 +0100 (CET) Received: by elstar.local (Postfix, from userid 501) id 5C2BC8FF182; Wed, 21 Jan 2009 07:10:12 +0100 (CET) Date: Wed, 21 Jan 2009 07:10:12 +0100 From: Juergen Schoenwaelder To: Andy Bierman Message-ID: <20090121061012.GB27982@elstar.local> Mail-Followup-To: Andy Bierman , Ladislav Lhotka , netmod@ietf.org References: <49750243.40209@netconfcentral.com> <1232443674.6735.14.camel@missotis> <4975E578.50609@netconfcentral.com> <20090120163037.GA27083@elstar.local> <49764315.9040001@netconfcentral.com> <20090120215933.GA27727@elstar.local> <49764D97.1050208@netconfcentral.com> <20090120233129.GA27812@elstar.local> <497662B2.4050308@netconfcentral.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <497662B2.4050308@netconfcentral.com> User-Agent: Mutt/1.5.19 (2009-01-05) Cc: netmod@ietf.org Subject: Re: [netmod] some yang-03 comments X-BeenThere: netmod@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.9 Precedence: list Reply-To: j.schoenwaelder@jacobs-university.de List-Id: NETMOD WG list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: netmod-bounces@ietf.org Errors-To: netmod-bounces@ietf.org On Tue, Jan 20, 2009 at 03:48:02PM -0800, Andy Bierman wrote: > I thought the consensus from the interim meeting > was that the revision-stmt was going to be mandatory, > and if the import/include did not specify any version, > then the newest available version would be used. > > I do not understand what changed, or the rationale > for changing it, but I object to the change. > The 'suggested' file format is not a solution. > There are plenty of applications (HTTP POST) that > may provide a YANG module without a 'file' > to contain it. I agree that the version number must be defined within the YANG module. /js -- Juergen Schoenwaelder Jacobs University Bremen gGmbH Phone: +49 421 200 3587 Campus Ring 1, 28759 Bremen, Germany Fax: +49 421 200 3103 _______________________________________________ netmod mailing list netmod@ietf.org https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/netmod From netmod-bounces@ietf.org Wed Jan 21 01:09:37 2009 Return-Path: X-Original-To: netmod-archive@ietf.org Delivered-To: ietfarch-netmod-archive@core3.amsl.com Received: from [127.0.0.1] (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 59A9F3A67B3; Wed, 21 Jan 2009 01:09:37 -0800 (PST) X-Original-To: netmod@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: netmod@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id D3B013A67B6 for ; Wed, 21 Jan 2009 01:09:35 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.019 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.019 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=0.027, BAYES_00=-2.599, HELO_MISMATCH_COM=0.553] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id XBNDQlhDo00c for ; Wed, 21 Jan 2009 01:09:35 -0800 (PST) Received: from mail.tail-f.com (de-0316.d.ipeer.se [213.180.79.212]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 02C1A3A67B3 for ; Wed, 21 Jan 2009 01:09:34 -0800 (PST) Received: from localhost (138.162.241.83.in-addr.dgcsystems.net [83.241.162.138]) by mail.tail-f.com (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 6AC6C76C2AC; Wed, 21 Jan 2009 09:58:48 +0100 (CET) Date: Wed, 21 Jan 2009 09:58:48 +0100 (CET) Message-Id: <20090121.095848.244785671.mbj@tail-f.com> To: andy@netconfcentral.com From: Martin Bjorklund In-Reply-To: <497662B2.4050308@netconfcentral.com> References: <49764D97.1050208@netconfcentral.com> <20090120233129.GA27812@elstar.local> <497662B2.4050308@netconfcentral.com> X-Mailer: Mew version 6.0.51 on Emacs 22.2 / Mule 5.0 (SAKAKI) Mime-Version: 1.0 Cc: netmod@ietf.org Subject: Re: [netmod] some yang-03 comments X-BeenThere: netmod@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.9 Precedence: list List-Id: NETMOD WG list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: netmod-bounces@ietf.org Errors-To: netmod-bounces@ietf.org Andy Bierman wrote: > Juergen Schoenwaelder wrote: > > And I prefer to avoid redundant fields. +1 > I thought the consensus from the interim meeting > was that the revision-stmt was going to be mandatory, I cannot find that in my notes. (and I cannot find any offical minutes from the interim) > and if the import/include did not specify any version, > then the newest available version would be used. Yes. This would work like with SMIv2 MIBs. > I do not understand what changed, or the rationale > for changing it, but I object to the change. I don't think there is any change. We have talked about many similar issues in the past - there are several statements which are optional but will probably be required in IETF modules (description, contact, organization...) IETF modules will always have revision statements, and they will always be in reverse order. If anything, I'd rather make both 'namespace' and 'prefix' optional. 'namespace' is required, but it has no meaning for "type library modules", like e.g. yang-types. > The 'suggested' file format is not a solution. > There are plenty of applications (HTTP POST) that > may provide a YANG module without a 'file' > to contain it. Of course. The suggested file name format has always been there, and it has absolutely nothing to do with this issue. The suggested file name format is just that - a recommended way to name yang modules when they are stored as files. /martin _______________________________________________ netmod mailing list netmod@ietf.org https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/netmod From netmod-bounces@ietf.org Wed Jan 21 01:29:41 2009 Return-Path: X-Original-To: netmod-archive@ietf.org Delivered-To: ietfarch-netmod-archive@core3.amsl.com Received: from [127.0.0.1] (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id B29263A682C; Wed, 21 Jan 2009 01:29:41 -0800 (PST) X-Original-To: netmod@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: netmod@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5B4773A68C0 for ; Wed, 21 Jan 2009 01:29:41 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.072 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.072 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=0.193, BAYES_00=-2.599, IP_NOT_FRIENDLY=0.334] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id PAPpJo4IQJpv for ; Wed, 21 Jan 2009 01:29:40 -0800 (PST) Received: from smtp119.sbc.mail.sp1.yahoo.com (smtp119.sbc.mail.sp1.yahoo.com [69.147.64.92]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with SMTP id A938F3A682C for ; Wed, 21 Jan 2009 01:29:40 -0800 (PST) Received: (qmail 76622 invoked from network); 21 Jan 2009 09:29:24 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO ?127.0.0.1?) (andy@67.122.139.105 with plain) by smtp119.sbc.mail.sp1.yahoo.com with SMTP; 21 Jan 2009 09:29:23 -0000 X-YMail-OSG: csgUQoQVM1lHFtWdSYL4ChOSAGGPUWXisV7VA5Hgpu4UlEuBczIYPWC_af4m4xxuNOagFd1zTHjk3OZiUDG3PnSNcOuFlsta.aMeGbzTU8KiIQyasIFZrttgbF6P4zp.sn0r_W9E17SQnlOepBqjNFDYePbLa0Nxs7hR7zShaF6U3NnRNjdOacWNFZEbqu1R_szXr2szROZSfScAX2ASb0KpxqxiYlQzRqmj5ohYTQ-- X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: ymail-3 Message-ID: <4976EAF1.6000200@netconfcentral.com> Date: Wed, 21 Jan 2009 01:29:21 -0800 From: Andy Bierman User-Agent: Thunderbird 2.0.0.19 (Windows/20081209) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Martin Bjorklund References: <49764D97.1050208@netconfcentral.com> <20090120233129.GA27812@elstar.local> <497662B2.4050308@netconfcentral.com> <20090121.095848.244785671.mbj@tail-f.com> In-Reply-To: <20090121.095848.244785671.mbj@tail-f.com> Cc: netmod@ietf.org Subject: Re: [netmod] some yang-03 comments X-BeenThere: netmod@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.9 Precedence: list List-Id: NETMOD WG list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; Format="flowed" Sender: netmod-bounces@ietf.org Errors-To: netmod-bounces@ietf.org Martin Bjorklund wrote: > Andy Bierman wrote: >> Juergen Schoenwaelder wrote: >>> And I prefer to avoid redundant fields. > > +1 > >> I thought the consensus from the interim meeting >> was that the revision-stmt was going to be mandatory, > > I cannot find that in my notes. (and I cannot find any offical > minutes from the interim) > >> and if the import/include did not specify any version, >> then the newest available version would be used. > > Yes. This would work like with SMIv2 MIBs. > >> I do not understand what changed, or the rationale >> for changing it, but I object to the change. > > I don't think there is any change. > > We have talked about many similar issues in the past - there are > several statements which are optional but will probably be required in > IETF modules (description, contact, organization...) IETF modules > will always have revision statements, and they will always be in > reverse order. > > If anything, I'd rather make both 'namespace' and 'prefix' optional. > 'namespace' is required, but it has no meaning for "type library > modules", like e.g. yang-types. > >> The 'suggested' file format is not a solution. >> There are plenty of applications (HTTP POST) that >> may provide a YANG module without a 'file' >> to contain it. > > Of course. The suggested file name format has always been there, and > it has absolutely nothing to do with this issue. The suggested file > name format is just that - a recommended way to name yang modules when > they are stored as files. > YANG needs to define the behavior for all implementations to follow. There is a difference between mandatory-to-implement and mandatory-to-use. The standard needs to define what happens when the revision is not found, not specified, etc. The current draft is under-specified. > > /martin > > > Andy _______________________________________________ netmod mailing list netmod@ietf.org https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/netmod From netmod-bounces@ietf.org Wed Jan 21 02:04:22 2009 Return-Path: X-Original-To: netmod-archive@ietf.org Delivered-To: ietfarch-netmod-archive@core3.amsl.com Received: from [127.0.0.1] (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9BEEF3A67A4; Wed, 21 Jan 2009 02:04:22 -0800 (PST) X-Original-To: netmod@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: netmod@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 77A943A67A4 for ; Wed, 21 Jan 2009 02:04:21 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.019 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.019 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=0.027, BAYES_00=-2.599, HELO_MISMATCH_COM=0.553] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id Sr2u-TCnImCr for ; Wed, 21 Jan 2009 02:04:20 -0800 (PST) Received: from mail.tail-f.com (de-0316.d.ipeer.se [213.180.79.212]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 98A393A684C for ; Wed, 21 Jan 2009 02:04:20 -0800 (PST) Received: from localhost (138.162.241.83.in-addr.dgcsystems.net [83.241.162.138]) by mail.tail-f.com (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 25F7376C2AC; Wed, 21 Jan 2009 11:04:03 +0100 (CET) Date: Wed, 21 Jan 2009 11:03:59 +0100 (CET) Message-Id: <20090121.110359.154357763.mbj@tail-f.com> To: andy@netconfcentral.com From: Martin Bjorklund In-Reply-To: <4976EAF1.6000200@netconfcentral.com> References: <497662B2.4050308@netconfcentral.com> <20090121.095848.244785671.mbj@tail-f.com> <4976EAF1.6000200@netconfcentral.com> X-Mailer: Mew version 6.0.51 on Emacs 22.2 / Mule 5.0 (SAKAKI) Mime-Version: 1.0 Cc: netmod@ietf.org Subject: Re: [netmod] some yang-03 comments X-BeenThere: netmod@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.9 Precedence: list List-Id: NETMOD WG list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: netmod-bounces@ietf.org Errors-To: netmod-bounces@ietf.org Andy Bierman wrote: > The standard needs to define what > happens when the revision is not found, not specified, etc. > The current draft is under-specified. I guess this applies to an import w/o revision as well? I.e. we need to say somthing like "It is an error if the module, or the specified revision of the module, does not exist." Was this what you meant? /martin _______________________________________________ netmod mailing list netmod@ietf.org https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/netmod From netmod-bounces@ietf.org Wed Jan 21 02:44:26 2009 Return-Path: X-Original-To: netmod-archive@ietf.org Delivered-To: ietfarch-netmod-archive@core3.amsl.com Received: from [127.0.0.1] (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8822F3A6AA6; Wed, 21 Jan 2009 02:44:26 -0800 (PST) X-Original-To: netmod@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: netmod@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 24DE43A6AD0 for ; Wed, 21 Jan 2009 02:44:25 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.789 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.789 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=-0.124, BAYES_00=-2.599, IP_NOT_FRIENDLY=0.334, J_CHICKENPOX_14=0.6] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id fF0F9vSBpsLc for ; Wed, 21 Jan 2009 02:44:24 -0800 (PST) Received: from smtp122.sbc.mail.sp1.yahoo.com (smtp122.sbc.mail.sp1.yahoo.com [69.147.64.95]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with SMTP id 682A83A6AB4 for ; Wed, 21 Jan 2009 02:44:24 -0800 (PST) Received: (qmail 86237 invoked from network); 21 Jan 2009 10:44:07 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO ?127.0.0.1?) (andy@67.122.139.105 with plain) by smtp122.sbc.mail.sp1.yahoo.com with SMTP; 21 Jan 2009 10:44:06 -0000 X-YMail-OSG: hdg92f0VM1ka.HMwazRq3uX0PMRZG5NjxbCBsMgU4a0jm6jfNFvDp8Zi7J.THDTP.zg9hJj_uH6xnsclCfeYn3RPPjwXaEi_k4V.qADRNrjeDKmkrLu9e8eBbEZzHH1uLcV2JPdh1xC2ESZClHdZS3lQKNQNeh1EyXaKliyIDI9jOgvo0Da6tuQ5.E58iFjUAxcxd41r6fpU_REr3OKjRA-- X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: ymail-3 Message-ID: <4976FC74.9070104@netconfcentral.com> Date: Wed, 21 Jan 2009 02:44:04 -0800 From: Andy Bierman User-Agent: Thunderbird 2.0.0.19 (Windows/20081209) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Martin Bjorklund References: <497662B2.4050308@netconfcentral.com> <20090121.095848.244785671.mbj@tail-f.com> <4976EAF1.6000200@netconfcentral.com> <20090121.110359.154357763.mbj@tail-f.com> In-Reply-To: <20090121.110359.154357763.mbj@tail-f.com> Cc: netmod@ietf.org Subject: Re: [netmod] some yang-03 comments X-BeenThere: netmod@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.9 Precedence: list List-Id: NETMOD WG list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; Format="flowed" Sender: netmod-bounces@ietf.org Errors-To: netmod-bounces@ietf.org Martin Bjorklund wrote: > Andy Bierman wrote: >> The standard needs to define what >> happens when the revision is not found, not specified, etc. >> The current draft is under-specified. > > I guess this applies to an import w/o revision as well? I.e. we need > to say somthing like "It is an error if the module, or the specified > revision of the module, does not exist." > > Was this what you meant? > 1) there needs to be explicit instructions for associated an import revision clause with a YANG module. module A { import foo { prefix foo; version "2009-01-20"; } } These seems obvious, but what is the deterministic mechanism that associates the string "2009-01-20" with a particular instance of the foo module? 2) there needs to be explicit instructions for selecting an import or include file if the import revision is not specified: x.yang: module foo { namespace "foo"; prefix foo; leaf a { type string; } } y.yang: module foo { namespace "foo"; prefix foo; leaf b { type string; } } module bar { namespace "bar"; prefix bar; import foo { prefix foo; } } Which file is used for the import into module bar: x.yang or y.yang? How does the DM designer know for sure which one will be used? Why should this even be allowed in YANG? > > /martin > > > Andy _______________________________________________ netmod mailing list netmod@ietf.org https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/netmod From netmod-bounces@ietf.org Wed Jan 21 03:29:50 2009 Return-Path: X-Original-To: netmod-archive@ietf.org Delivered-To: ietfarch-netmod-archive@core3.amsl.com Received: from [127.0.0.1] (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3E47F3A6AD3; Wed, 21 Jan 2009 03:29:50 -0800 (PST) X-Original-To: netmod@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: netmod@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id B905E28C0F4 for ; Wed, 21 Jan 2009 03:29:49 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.72 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.72 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=-0.274, BAYES_00=-2.599, HELO_MISMATCH_COM=0.553, J_CHICKENPOX_14=0.6] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id oIJOYMlQrOeS for ; Wed, 21 Jan 2009 03:29:49 -0800 (PST) Received: from mail.tail-f.com (de-0316.d.ipeer.se [213.180.79.212]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0005F3A6AD3 for ; Wed, 21 Jan 2009 03:29:48 -0800 (PST) Received: from localhost (138.162.241.83.in-addr.dgcsystems.net [83.241.162.138]) by mail.tail-f.com (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 25C1676C2AC; Wed, 21 Jan 2009 12:29:31 +0100 (CET) Date: Wed, 21 Jan 2009 12:29:30 +0100 (CET) Message-Id: <20090121.122930.87403464.mbj@tail-f.com> To: andy@netconfcentral.com From: Martin Bjorklund In-Reply-To: <4976FC74.9070104@netconfcentral.com> References: <4976EAF1.6000200@netconfcentral.com> <20090121.110359.154357763.mbj@tail-f.com> <4976FC74.9070104@netconfcentral.com> X-Mailer: Mew version 6.0.51 on Emacs 22.2 / Mule 5.0 (SAKAKI) Mime-Version: 1.0 Cc: netmod@ietf.org Subject: Re: [netmod] some yang-03 comments X-BeenThere: netmod@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.9 Precedence: list List-Id: NETMOD WG list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: netmod-bounces@ietf.org Errors-To: netmod-bounces@ietf.org Andy Bierman wrote: > Martin Bjorklund wrote: > > Andy Bierman wrote: > >> The standard needs to define what > >> happens when the revision is not found, not specified, etc. > >> The current draft is under-specified. > > I guess this applies to an import w/o revision as well? I.e. we need > > to say somthing like "It is an error if the module, or the specified > > revision of the module, does not exist." > > Was this what you meant? > > > > 1) there needs to be explicit instructions for > associated an import revision clause with a YANG module. > > module A { > > import foo { > prefix foo; > version "2009-01-20"; > } > } > > These seems obvious, but what is the deterministic > mechanism that associates the string "2009-01-20" > with a particular instance of the foo module? Ok. We need to say that it must match the most recent revision clause. > 2) there needs to be explicit instructions for selecting > an import or include file if the import revision is not > specified: > > x.yang: > > module foo { > > namespace "foo"; > prefix foo; > leaf a { type string; } > > } > > y.yang: > > module foo { > > namespace "foo"; > prefix foo; > leaf b { type string; } > > } > > > module bar { > > namespace "bar"; > prefix bar; > import foo { prefix foo; } > > } > > Which file is used for the import into module bar: > > x.yang or y.yang? > > How does the DM designer know for sure which one will > be used? Why should this even be allowed in YANG? IMO this is outside the scope of YANG. We cannot mandate that files must be used, as you said. The modules might be stored in a database. /martin _______________________________________________ netmod mailing list netmod@ietf.org https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/netmod From netmod-bounces@ietf.org Wed Jan 21 07:52:19 2009 Return-Path: X-Original-To: netmod-archive@ietf.org Delivered-To: ietfarch-netmod-archive@core3.amsl.com Received: from [127.0.0.1] (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 28E683A6998; Wed, 21 Jan 2009 07:52:19 -0800 (PST) X-Original-To: netmod@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: netmod@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0374C3A6A90 for ; Wed, 21 Jan 2009 07:52:18 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.779 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.779 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=-0.114, BAYES_00=-2.599, IP_NOT_FRIENDLY=0.334, J_CHICKENPOX_14=0.6] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id SVhF3iS406Vs for ; Wed, 21 Jan 2009 07:52:14 -0800 (PST) Received: from smtp119.sbc.mail.sp1.yahoo.com (smtp119.sbc.mail.sp1.yahoo.com [69.147.64.92]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with SMTP id 2CA0D3A6998 for ; Wed, 21 Jan 2009 07:52:13 -0800 (PST) Received: (qmail 72584 invoked from network); 21 Jan 2009 15:51:57 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO ?127.0.0.1?) (andy@67.122.139.105 with plain) by smtp119.sbc.mail.sp1.yahoo.com with SMTP; 21 Jan 2009 15:51:56 -0000 X-YMail-OSG: CjoYZ90VM1lCbgkIN7D6ijaZ1JhU7B0bSpZa3JP0mPkoVnd8DRyBggmBGHYzDceGp2jxQThkJ_ph_YDfvggJBzNFJ_l4x98GPiQnmYvlJt.LB1FNhg6GL3hwNEB10IaVmIMwo0geG76fFPJVpXkj4Di0VIVyGNhN2inzJhM_FtDM1RDBoKB8iwYmezuZmHHPq5yoIEoDQ05zGTtxwgURsA-- X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: ymail-3 Message-ID: <4977449A.8010302@netconfcentral.com> Date: Wed, 21 Jan 2009 07:51:54 -0800 From: Andy Bierman User-Agent: Thunderbird 2.0.0.19 (Windows/20081209) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Martin Bjorklund References: <4976EAF1.6000200@netconfcentral.com> <20090121.110359.154357763.mbj@tail-f.com> <4976FC74.9070104@netconfcentral.com> <20090121.122930.87403464.mbj@tail-f.com> In-Reply-To: <20090121.122930.87403464.mbj@tail-f.com> Cc: netmod@ietf.org Subject: Re: [netmod] some yang-03 comments X-BeenThere: netmod@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.9 Precedence: list List-Id: NETMOD WG list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; Format="flowed" Sender: netmod-bounces@ietf.org Errors-To: netmod-bounces@ietf.org Martin Bjorklund wrote: > Andy Bierman wrote: >> Martin Bjorklund wrote: >>> Andy Bierman wrote: >>>> The standard needs to define what >>>> happens when the revision is not found, not specified, etc. >>>> The current draft is under-specified. >>> I guess this applies to an import w/o revision as well? I.e. we need >>> to say somthing like "It is an error if the module, or the specified >>> revision of the module, does not exist." >>> Was this what you meant? >>> >> 1) there needs to be explicit instructions for >> associated an import revision clause with a YANG module. >> >> module A { >> >> import foo { >> prefix foo; >> version "2009-01-20"; >> } >> } >> >> These seems obvious, but what is the deterministic >> mechanism that associates the string "2009-01-20" >> with a particular instance of the foo module? > > Ok. We need to say that it must match the most recent revision > clause. > And unless there is an exact match with the highest value revision date, there is no import or include (fatal error). >> 2) there needs to be explicit instructions for selecting >> an import or include file if the import revision is not >> specified: >> >> x.yang: >> >> module foo { >> >> namespace "foo"; >> prefix foo; >> leaf a { type string; } >> >> } >> >> y.yang: >> >> module foo { >> >> namespace "foo"; >> prefix foo; >> leaf b { type string; } >> >> } >> >> >> module bar { >> >> namespace "bar"; >> prefix bar; >> import foo { prefix foo; } >> >> } >> >> Which file is used for the import into module bar: >> >> x.yang or y.yang? >> >> How does the DM designer know for sure which one will >> be used? Why should this even be allowed in YANG? > > IMO this is outside the scope of YANG. We cannot mandate that files > must be used, as you said. The modules might be stored in a > database. > For get that module foo is stored in a file 'x' or 'y'. It could be a URL 'x' or 'y. or SQL database object name. Sorry for adding irrelevant data for you to focus on instead of the real problem. The correct answer is that an import without a revision date is exactly what we had before -03, so whatever YANG did to properly select the correct module before -03, is what it still does now. This problem has been in YANG all along. module foo { namespace "foo"; prefix foo; typedef A { type string; } } module foo { namespace "acme-foo"; prefix foo; typedef A { type float32; } } module bar { namespace "bar"; prefix bar; import foo { prefix foo; } leaf which-is-it { type foo:A; } } There is a simple fix, which has apparently been rejected by the WG: * require a revision-stmt in each module or submodule * if no specific revision is requested, then an instance with the most recent revision date (earlier or equal to the current date) is selected. The current solution, which is "it is implementation-specific" is one of the ways to punt the standards issue, but the problem doesn't go away. It does not get detected at YANG compile-time either. In SMIv2, any module 'find' is going to be a deterministic hit because every module version preserves all the previous version identifiers, and the conformance section can also be analyzed. There is really only the 'latest version' to deal with. Not a problem in SMIv2. In YANG, the previous versions are not identified, and it is part of the architecture that agents and applications MUST be capable of concurrently supporting multiple versions of a module. There is no conformance section to analyze either. E.g.: module X { import Y { revision 2009-01-01; prefix y; } import Z { revision 2009-01-02; prefix z; } ... } module Y { import Z { revision 2008-11-22; prefix y; } ... } YANG uses an 'N concurrent versions' approach. In, YANG the problem is built into the architecture, not a corner-case. Picking randomly amongst N versions is a new twist, much worse than the unlikely collision of 2 vendors picking the same module name. > > /martin > > > Andy _______________________________________________ netmod mailing list netmod@ietf.org https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/netmod From netmod-bounces@ietf.org Wed Jan 21 13:27:01 2009 Return-Path: X-Original-To: netmod-archive@ietf.org Delivered-To: ietfarch-netmod-archive@core3.amsl.com Received: from [127.0.0.1] (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id DE6943A68B6; Wed, 21 Jan 2009 13:27:01 -0800 (PST) X-Original-To: netmod@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: netmod@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id BADAC3A68B6 for ; Wed, 21 Jan 2009 13:27:00 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.009 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.009 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=0.037, BAYES_00=-2.599, HELO_MISMATCH_COM=0.553] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id q8iOTDX17L+L for ; Wed, 21 Jan 2009 13:27:00 -0800 (PST) Received: from mail.tail-f.com (de-0316.d.ipeer.se [213.180.79.212]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id C8F373A68E4 for ; Wed, 21 Jan 2009 13:26:59 -0800 (PST) Received: from localhost (c213-100-167-236.swipnet.se [213.100.167.236]) by mail.tail-f.com (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 8B96176C22F; Wed, 21 Jan 2009 22:26:41 +0100 (CET) Date: Wed, 21 Jan 2009 22:26:37 +0100 (CET) Message-Id: <20090121.222637.58785066.mbj@tail-f.com> To: andy@netconfcentral.com From: Martin Bjorklund In-Reply-To: <4977449A.8010302@netconfcentral.com> References: <4976FC74.9070104@netconfcentral.com> <20090121.122930.87403464.mbj@tail-f.com> <4977449A.8010302@netconfcentral.com> X-Mailer: Mew version 6.0.51 on Emacs 22.2 / Mule 5.0 (SAKAKI) Mime-Version: 1.0 Cc: netmod@ietf.org Subject: Re: [netmod] some yang-03 comments X-BeenThere: netmod@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.9 Precedence: list List-Id: NETMOD WG list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: netmod-bounces@ietf.org Errors-To: netmod-bounces@ietf.org Andy Bierman wrote: > >> These seems obvious, but what is the deterministic > >> mechanism that associates the string "2009-01-20" > >> with a particular instance of the foo module? > > Ok. We need to say that it must match the most recent revision > > clause. > > > > And unless there is an exact match with the highest value > revision date, there is no import or include (fatal error). Ok. > The correct answer is that an import without a revision > date is exactly what we had before -03, so whatever YANG did to > properly select the correct module before -03, is what it > still does now. Yes. > This problem has been in YANG all along. I really do not understand the problem. If module X imports Y w/o specifying a revision, the result will be implementation dependent. This is also how it works in SMIv2. IF-MIB imports IANAifType, and two agents that both implement the same version of IFMIB might have different versions of the IANAifType. The new thing in YANG is that this problem can be avoided by using import by revision, and if no revision was used in the import, the capability exchange and schema discovery can be used to find out exactly what the agent implements. > In SMIv2, any module 'find' is going to be a deterministic > hit because every module version preserves all the previous > version identifiers, and the conformance section can also > be analyzed. There is really only the 'latest version' > to deal with. Not a problem in SMIv2. > > In YANG, the previous versions are not identified I don't get this. Can you elaborate why this is different in SMIv2 vs. YANG? /martin _______________________________________________ netmod mailing list netmod@ietf.org https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/netmod From netmod-bounces@ietf.org Wed Jan 21 13:42:21 2009 Return-Path: X-Original-To: netmod-archive@ietf.org Delivered-To: ietfarch-netmod-archive@core3.amsl.com Received: from [127.0.0.1] (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 338F628C0EF; Wed, 21 Jan 2009 13:42:21 -0800 (PST) X-Original-To: netmod@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: netmod@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8AA1528C0EF for ; Wed, 21 Jan 2009 13:42:19 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.07 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.07 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=0.195, BAYES_00=-2.599, IP_NOT_FRIENDLY=0.334] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id eRAJDmc2vQdy for ; Wed, 21 Jan 2009 13:42:18 -0800 (PST) Received: from smtp118.sbc.mail.sp1.yahoo.com (smtp118.sbc.mail.sp1.yahoo.com [69.147.64.91]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with SMTP id C803F28C100 for ; Wed, 21 Jan 2009 13:42:18 -0800 (PST) Received: (qmail 23932 invoked from network); 21 Jan 2009 21:42:02 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO ?127.0.0.1?) (andy@67.122.139.105 with plain) by smtp118.sbc.mail.sp1.yahoo.com with SMTP; 21 Jan 2009 21:42:00 -0000 X-YMail-OSG: 51muhvQVM1mWDq3Ku7Yi_HiOJ3OQF_Gy01nK_ow4Qhcx7rAcJAaQstJ4eq57XWC5gxU91EKEyL4HQmWzDyTOqHqbIXe0upBi2qk2ErqcTWkh8LNidpGGYex13PShaU75WtHqcKJuGHZGmRk8NN0UgULbmGi5ncR2_K_4U3cyYAQu8yI_2B8Qne0OaCdkSrNSgwt55QWEctDSUl_Ofomb0Q-- X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: ymail-3 Message-ID: <497796A6.7040000@netconfcentral.com> Date: Wed, 21 Jan 2009 13:41:58 -0800 From: Andy Bierman User-Agent: Thunderbird 2.0.0.19 (Windows/20081209) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Martin Bjorklund References: <4976FC74.9070104@netconfcentral.com> <20090121.122930.87403464.mbj@tail-f.com> <4977449A.8010302@netconfcentral.com> <20090121.222637.58785066.mbj@tail-f.com> In-Reply-To: <20090121.222637.58785066.mbj@tail-f.com> Cc: netmod@ietf.org Subject: Re: [netmod] some yang-03 comments X-BeenThere: netmod@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.9 Precedence: list List-Id: NETMOD WG list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; Format="flowed" Sender: netmod-bounces@ietf.org Errors-To: netmod-bounces@ietf.org Martin Bjorklund wrote: > Andy Bierman wrote: >>>> These seems obvious, but what is the deterministic >>>> mechanism that associates the string "2009-01-20" >>>> with a particular instance of the foo module? >>> Ok. We need to say that it must match the most recent revision >>> clause. >>> >> And unless there is an exact match with the highest value >> revision date, there is no import or include (fatal error). > > Ok. > >> The correct answer is that an import without a revision >> date is exactly what we had before -03, so whatever YANG did to >> properly select the correct module before -03, is what it >> still does now. > > Yes. > >> This problem has been in YANG all along. > > I really do not understand the problem. If module X imports Y w/o > specifying a revision, the result will be implementation dependent. > This is also how it works in SMIv2. IF-MIB imports IANAifType, and > two agents that both implement the same version of IFMIB might have > different versions of the IANAifType. > > The new thing in YANG is that this problem can be avoided by using > import by revision, and if no revision was used in the import, > the capability exchange and schema discovery can be used to find out > exactly what the agent implements. > >> In SMIv2, any module 'find' is going to be a deterministic >> hit because every module version preserves all the previous >> version identifiers, and the conformance section can also >> be analyzed. There is really only the 'latest version' >> to deal with. Not a problem in SMIv2. >> >> In YANG, the previous versions are not identified > > I don't get this. Can you elaborate why this is different in SMIv2 > vs. YANG? > I do not agree that SMIv2 has the same properties as YANG because there is a special corner-case module called IANAifType that is maintained online. SMIv2 modules are not allowed to have nested imports like YANG, so multiple concurrent versions of the same definition are not possible. SMIv2 does not allow a TEXTUAL-CONVENTION to be defined from another one, and it does not have groupings. AUGMENTS is also N:1, and SMIv2 is not allowed to change in a way that would break an augmenting table, so any number of versions can work together. YANG has more features than SMIv2, which lead to instabilities and corner-cases that do not occur in SMIv2. SMIv2 has a usage guidelines RFC, so standard MIB modules follow much stricter rules. I think the same thing is needed for YANG -- now, not someday in the future. > > /martin > > > Andy _______________________________________________ netmod mailing list netmod@ietf.org https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/netmod From netmod-bounces@ietf.org Wed Jan 21 13:50:19 2009 Return-Path: X-Original-To: netmod-archive@ietf.org Delivered-To: ietfarch-netmod-archive@core3.amsl.com Received: from [127.0.0.1] (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 976463A6778; Wed, 21 Jan 2009 13:50:19 -0800 (PST) X-Original-To: netmod@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: netmod@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id E75C63A69B2 for ; Wed, 21 Jan 2009 13:50:18 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.009 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.009 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=0.037, BAYES_00=-2.599, HELO_MISMATCH_COM=0.553] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id ZbA1LiCa4Ddp for ; Wed, 21 Jan 2009 13:50:18 -0800 (PST) Received: from mail.tail-f.com (de-0316.d.ipeer.se [213.180.79.212]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2C5063A6778 for ; Wed, 21 Jan 2009 13:50:18 -0800 (PST) Received: from localhost (c213-100-167-236.swipnet.se [213.100.167.236]) by mail.tail-f.com (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 7909676C229; Wed, 21 Jan 2009 22:50:01 +0100 (CET) Date: Wed, 21 Jan 2009 22:49:57 +0100 (CET) Message-Id: <20090121.224957.178697741.mbj@tail-f.com> To: andy@netconfcentral.com From: Martin Bjorklund In-Reply-To: <497796A6.7040000@netconfcentral.com> References: <4977449A.8010302@netconfcentral.com> <20090121.222637.58785066.mbj@tail-f.com> <497796A6.7040000@netconfcentral.com> X-Mailer: Mew version 6.0.51 on Emacs 22.2 / Mule 5.0 (SAKAKI) Mime-Version: 1.0 Cc: netmod@ietf.org Subject: Re: [netmod] some yang-03 comments X-BeenThere: netmod@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.9 Precedence: list List-Id: NETMOD WG list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: netmod-bounces@ietf.org Errors-To: netmod-bounces@ietf.org Andy Bierman wrote: > I do not agree that SMIv2 has the same properties as YANG > because there is a special corner-case module called IANAifType > that is maintained online. SMIv2 modules are not allowed > to have nested imports like YANG, so multiple concurrent > versions of the same definition are not possible. I thought the problem you brought up was how a particular module is found? We've already discussed the implications of import by revision, and consensus is to have this. > SMIv2 has a usage guidelines RFC, so standard MIB modules > follow much stricter rules. I think the same thing is > needed for YANG -- now, not someday in the future. I agree. Probably in a separate document though. We don't really need more pages in the yang doc... /martin _______________________________________________ netmod mailing list netmod@ietf.org https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/netmod From netmod-bounces@ietf.org Wed Jan 21 14:18:59 2009 Return-Path: X-Original-To: netmod-archive@ietf.org Delivered-To: ietfarch-netmod-archive@core3.amsl.com Received: from [127.0.0.1] (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7AF2028C0EF; Wed, 21 Jan 2009 14:18:59 -0800 (PST) X-Original-To: netmod@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: netmod@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4FEDF28C12E for ; Wed, 21 Jan 2009 14:18:58 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.084 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.084 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=0.181, BAYES_00=-2.599, IP_NOT_FRIENDLY=0.334] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id SZQzk4Jh4VL8 for ; Wed, 21 Jan 2009 14:18:57 -0800 (PST) Received: from smtp115.sbc.mail.sp1.yahoo.com (smtp115.sbc.mail.sp1.yahoo.com [69.147.64.88]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with SMTP id AB03328C0EF for ; Wed, 21 Jan 2009 14:18:57 -0800 (PST) Received: (qmail 79827 invoked from network); 21 Jan 2009 22:18:41 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO ?127.0.0.1?) (andy@67.122.139.105 with plain) by smtp115.sbc.mail.sp1.yahoo.com with SMTP; 21 Jan 2009 22:18:40 -0000 X-YMail-OSG: G5IAlKwVM1mBtlDMBsySC_eq8RyXC1ksQTDn8ODRyQy8RIFEvSG25Fl5ixgUkSUYy_TlfkGuscC0dgHz3aj39rKtbe3lrbOIHKd1XuYgRluZXdEm1NZzMQfgQIvRf7G5gw_s0kMyqQwX03ktt29MDUhQX7zbzUw6HHtRLOwunM86RnlCg37arZgd5a2lN0bckkpC.qW6Z5Q6YzZj3Ifsyw-- X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: ymail-3 Message-ID: <49779F3D.5070109@netconfcentral.com> Date: Wed, 21 Jan 2009 14:18:37 -0800 From: Andy Bierman User-Agent: Thunderbird 2.0.0.19 (Windows/20081209) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Martin Bjorklund References: <4977449A.8010302@netconfcentral.com> <20090121.222637.58785066.mbj@tail-f.com> <497796A6.7040000@netconfcentral.com> <20090121.224957.178697741.mbj@tail-f.com> In-Reply-To: <20090121.224957.178697741.mbj@tail-f.com> Cc: netmod@ietf.org Subject: Re: [netmod] some yang-03 comments X-BeenThere: netmod@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.9 Precedence: list List-Id: NETMOD WG list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; Format="flowed" Sender: netmod-bounces@ietf.org Errors-To: netmod-bounces@ietf.org Martin Bjorklund wrote: > Andy Bierman wrote: >> I do not agree that SMIv2 has the same properties as YANG >> because there is a special corner-case module called IANAifType >> that is maintained online. SMIv2 modules are not allowed >> to have nested imports like YANG, so multiple concurrent >> versions of the same definition are not possible. > > I thought the problem you brought up was how a particular module is > found? We've already discussed the implications of import by > revision, and consensus is to have this. > The one problem still left is the random nature of an import statement without a revision. I remember the interim meeting differently than you, but there were 1000 details in 3 days so that is not surprising. I remember Lada was very concerned about the import revision being optional because of this very issue. I was concerned as well, but I was under the impression that if not specified, the most recent would be used instead. So the change I am requesting is that if module revisions are available within the imported module or included submodule, then the YANG tool MUST use the newest version 'available' to the tool. (That part is always going to be implementation-specific.) If the revision-stmt is not used in the imported module or included module, then it is implementation dependent as to which 'version' is used. By definition, such a module does not have a version, so there cannot be any version match. >> SMIv2 has a usage guidelines RFC, so standard MIB modules >> follow much stricter rules. I think the same thing is >> needed for YANG -- now, not someday in the future. > > I agree. Probably in a separate document though. We don't really > need more pages in the yang doc... > agreed > > /martin > > > Andy _______________________________________________ netmod mailing list netmod@ietf.org https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/netmod From netmod-bounces@ietf.org Wed Jan 21 18:20:33 2009 Return-Path: X-Original-To: netmod-archive@ietf.org Delivered-To: ietfarch-netmod-archive@core3.amsl.com Received: from [127.0.0.1] (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id ED53E3A6B60; Wed, 21 Jan 2009 18:20:33 -0800 (PST) X-Original-To: netmod@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: netmod@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 115633A6B64 for ; Wed, 21 Jan 2009 18:20:33 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.042 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.042 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=0.557, BAYES_00=-2.599] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id D4+P4AZhmA0s for ; Wed, 21 Jan 2009 18:20:32 -0800 (PST) Received: from mta2.huaweisymantec.com (mta2.huaweisymantec.com [121.15.168.143]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 486613A6B60 for ; Wed, 21 Jan 2009 18:20:32 -0800 (PST) MIME-version: 1.0 Content-disposition: inline Received: from hstml01-in.huaweisymantec.com ([172.26.3.42]) by hstga02-in.huaweisymantec.com (Sun Java(tm) System Messaging Server 6.3-5.02 (built Oct 12 2007; 32bit)) with ESMTP id <0KDU008YOP5OBU70@hstga02-in.huaweisymantec.com> for netmod@ietf.org; Thu, 22 Jan 2009 10:20:14 +0800 (CST) Received: from huaweisymantec.com ([127.0.0.1]) by hstml01-in.huaweisymantec.com (Sun Java(tm) System Messaging Server 6.3-5.02 (built Oct 12 2007; 32bit)) with ESMTP id <0KDU00A2EP5MQZ20@hstml01-in.huaweisymantec.com> for netmod@ietf.org; Thu, 22 Jan 2009 10:20:12 +0800 (CST) Received: from [10.27.141.6] by hstml01-in.huaweisymantec.com (mshttpd); Thu, 22 Jan 2009 10:20:10 +0800 From: WashamFan To: Martin Bjorklund Message-id: Date: Thu, 22 Jan 2009 10:20:10 +0800 X-Mailer: Sun Java(tm) System Messenger Express 6.3-5.02 (built Oct 12 2007; 32bit) Content-language: zh-CN X-Accept-Language: zh-CN Priority: normal In-reply-to: <20090121.224957.178697741.mbj@tail-f.com> References: <4977449A.8010302@netconfcentral.com> <20090121.222637.58785066.mbj@tail-f.com> <497796A6.7040000@netconfcentral.com> <20090121.224957.178697741.mbj@tail-f.com> Cc: netmod@ietf.org Subject: [netmod] modules and submodules X-BeenThere: netmod@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.9 Precedence: list List-Id: NETMOD WG list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: netmod-bounces@ietf.org Errors-To: netmod-bounces@ietf.org Hi, In sec 5.1, para 5, is a bullet missing? You enumerate module 'import' module, module 'include' submodule, submodule 'include' submodule, but what about submodule 'import' module? Am I missing something? washam _______________________________________________ netmod mailing list netmod@ietf.org https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/netmod From netmod-bounces@ietf.org Wed Jan 21 18:31:45 2009 Return-Path: X-Original-To: netmod-archive@ietf.org Delivered-To: ietfarch-netmod-archive@core3.amsl.com Received: from [127.0.0.1] (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3AB763A687A; Wed, 21 Jan 2009 18:31:45 -0800 (PST) X-Original-To: netmod@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: netmod@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id DD3EA3A6A94 for ; Wed, 21 Jan 2009 18:31:43 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.153 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.153 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=0.446, BAYES_00=-2.599] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 5WSU+EPGU-vV for ; Wed, 21 Jan 2009 18:31:43 -0800 (PST) Received: from mta2.huaweisymantec.com (mta2.huaweisymantec.com [121.15.168.143]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1A4723A687A for ; Wed, 21 Jan 2009 18:31:43 -0800 (PST) MIME-version: 1.0 Content-disposition: inline Received: from hstml01-in.huaweisymantec.com ([172.26.3.42]) by hstga02-in.huaweisymantec.com (Sun Java(tm) System Messaging Server 6.3-5.02 (built Oct 12 2007; 32bit)) with ESMTP id <0KDU0082GPOBBU80@hstga02-in.huaweisymantec.com> for netmod@ietf.org; Thu, 22 Jan 2009 10:31:25 +0800 (CST) Received: from huaweisymantec.com ([127.0.0.1]) by hstml01-in.huaweisymantec.com (Sun Java(tm) System Messaging Server 6.3-5.02 (built Oct 12 2007; 32bit)) with ESMTP id <0KDU0031VPO7NR00@hstml01-in.huaweisymantec.com> for netmod@ietf.org; Thu, 22 Jan 2009 10:31:23 +0800 (CST) Received: from [10.27.141.6] by hstml01-in.huaweisymantec.com (mshttpd); Thu, 22 Jan 2009 10:31:19 +0800 From: WashamFan To: WashamFan Message-id: Date: Thu, 22 Jan 2009 10:31:19 +0800 X-Mailer: Sun Java(tm) System Messenger Express 6.3-5.02 (built Oct 12 2007; 32bit) Content-language: zh-CN X-Accept-Language: zh-CN Priority: normal In-reply-to: References: <4977449A.8010302@netconfcentral.com> <20090121.222637.58785066.mbj@tail-f.com> <497796A6.7040000@netconfcentral.com> <20090121.224957.178697741.mbj@tail-f.com> Cc: netmod@ietf.org Subject: Re: [netmod] modules and submodules X-BeenThere: netmod@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.9 Precedence: list List-Id: NETMOD WG list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: netmod-bounces@ietf.org Errors-To: netmod-bounces@ietf.org Hi, In sec 5.1.1, last para says: When the author of "a" publishes a new revision, the changes may not be acceptable to the author of "b". If the new revision is acceptable, the author of "a" can republish with an updated revision in the import statement. The last occurrence of "a" should be "b", is that right? washam > Hi, > In sec 5.1, para 5, is a bullet missing? > You enumerate module 'import' module, module 'include' submodule, > submodule 'include' submodule, but what about submodule 'import' > module? > Am I missing something? > > washam > _______________________________________________ > netmod mailing list > netmod@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/netmod > _______________________________________________ netmod mailing list netmod@ietf.org https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/netmod From netmod-bounces@ietf.org Wed Jan 21 22:52:45 2009 Return-Path: X-Original-To: netmod-archive@ietf.org Delivered-To: ietfarch-netmod-archive@core3.amsl.com Received: from [127.0.0.1] (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5AE0728C0FA; Wed, 21 Jan 2009 22:52:45 -0800 (PST) X-Original-To: netmod@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: netmod@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id CD8CE3A6A40 for ; Wed, 21 Jan 2009 22:52:43 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.015 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.015 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=0.031, BAYES_00=-2.599, HELO_MISMATCH_COM=0.553] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 92ss7HOm+3hF for ; Wed, 21 Jan 2009 22:52:43 -0800 (PST) Received: from mail.tail-f.com (de-0316.d.ipeer.se [213.180.79.212]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id CA0873A6A57 for ; Wed, 21 Jan 2009 22:52:42 -0800 (PST) Received: from localhost (138.162.241.83.in-addr.dgcsystems.net [83.241.162.138]) by mail.tail-f.com (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 4FDDE76C040; Thu, 22 Jan 2009 07:52:24 +0100 (CET) Date: Thu, 22 Jan 2009 07:52:23 +0100 (CET) Message-Id: <20090122.075223.187318101.mbj@tail-f.com> To: Washam.Fan@huaweisymantec.com From: Martin Bjorklund In-Reply-To: References: <497796A6.7040000@netconfcentral.com> <20090121.224957.178697741.mbj@tail-f.com> X-Mailer: Mew version 6.0.51 on Emacs 22.2 / Mule 5.0 (SAKAKI) Mime-Version: 1.0 Cc: netmod@ietf.org Subject: Re: [netmod] modules and submodules X-BeenThere: netmod@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.9 Precedence: list List-Id: NETMOD WG list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: netmod-bounces@ietf.org Errors-To: netmod-bounces@ietf.org WashamFan wrote: > Hi, > In sec 5.1, para 5, is a bullet missing? > You enumerate module 'import' module, module 'include' submodule, submodule > 'include' submodule, but what about submodule 'import' module? > Am I missing something? No, you're right. I modified the first bullet to - For a module or submodule to reference definitions in an external module, the external module MUST be imported. Thanks. /martin _______________________________________________ netmod mailing list netmod@ietf.org https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/netmod From netmod-bounces@ietf.org Wed Jan 21 22:53:24 2009 Return-Path: X-Original-To: netmod-archive@ietf.org Delivered-To: ietfarch-netmod-archive@core3.amsl.com Received: from [127.0.0.1] (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6F08C3A69EB; Wed, 21 Jan 2009 22:53:24 -0800 (PST) X-Original-To: netmod@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: netmod@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5B46F3A69EB for ; Wed, 21 Jan 2009 22:53:23 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.015 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.015 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=0.031, BAYES_00=-2.599, HELO_MISMATCH_COM=0.553] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id tLXKI9+UKzzk for ; Wed, 21 Jan 2009 22:53:22 -0800 (PST) Received: from mail.tail-f.com (de-0316.d.ipeer.se [213.180.79.212]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9A68B3A6A40 for ; Wed, 21 Jan 2009 22:53:22 -0800 (PST) Received: from localhost (138.162.241.83.in-addr.dgcsystems.net [83.241.162.138]) by mail.tail-f.com (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id D910E76C22F; Thu, 22 Jan 2009 07:53:05 +0100 (CET) Date: Thu, 22 Jan 2009 07:53:05 +0100 (CET) Message-Id: <20090122.075305.20742933.mbj@tail-f.com> To: Washam.Fan@huaweisymantec.com From: Martin Bjorklund In-Reply-To: References: <20090121.224957.178697741.mbj@tail-f.com> X-Mailer: Mew version 6.0.51 on Emacs 22.2 / Mule 5.0 (SAKAKI) Mime-Version: 1.0 Cc: netmod@ietf.org Subject: Re: [netmod] modules and submodules X-BeenThere: netmod@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.9 Precedence: list List-Id: NETMOD WG list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: netmod-bounces@ietf.org Errors-To: netmod-bounces@ietf.org WashamFan wrote: > Hi, > > In sec 5.1.1, last para says: > When the author of "a" publishes a new revision, the changes may not > be acceptable to the author of "b". If the new revision is > acceptable, the author of "a" can republish with an updated revision > in the import statement. > > The last occurrence of "a" should be "b", is that right? Yes. Now fixed. Thanks! /martin _______________________________________________ netmod mailing list netmod@ietf.org https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/netmod From netmod-bounces@ietf.org Fri Jan 23 02:20:20 2009 Return-Path: X-Original-To: netmod-archive@ietf.org Delivered-To: ietfarch-netmod-archive@core3.amsl.com Received: from [127.0.0.1] (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0E81C3A6874; Fri, 23 Jan 2009 02:20:20 -0800 (PST) X-Original-To: netmod@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: netmod@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id A0F193A6974 for ; Fri, 23 Jan 2009 02:20:18 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.01 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.01 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=0.036, BAYES_00=-2.599, HELO_MISMATCH_COM=0.553] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 6WIypC3NJTz2 for ; Fri, 23 Jan 2009 02:20:18 -0800 (PST) Received: from mail.tail-f.com (de-0316.d.ipeer.se [213.180.79.212]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id E00773A69C7 for ; Fri, 23 Jan 2009 02:20:17 -0800 (PST) Received: from localhost (c213-100-167-236.swipnet.se [213.100.167.236]) by mail.tail-f.com (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id B18D476C229; Fri, 23 Jan 2009 11:19:59 +0100 (CET) Date: Fri, 23 Jan 2009 11:19:56 +0100 (CET) Message-Id: <20090123.111956.195600007.mbj@tail-f.com> To: lhotka@cesnet.cz From: Martin Bjorklund In-Reply-To: <1232386823.28489.42.camel@missotis> References: <1232386823.28489.42.camel@missotis> X-Mailer: Mew version 6.0.51 on Emacs 22.2 / Mule 5.0 (SAKAKI) Mime-Version: 1.0 Cc: netmod@ietf.org Subject: Re: [netmod] when statement X-BeenThere: netmod@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.9 Precedence: list List-Id: NETMOD WG list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: netmod-bounces@ietf.org Errors-To: netmod-bounces@ietf.org Ladislav Lhotka wrote: > Hi, > > in sec. 7.19.5 of yang-03, it is not clear what data definition > statement is made conditional by the when statement - i.e., that it is > the parent statement of when. I propose the following rewording: Ok. I changed the text according to your proposal. /martin _______________________________________________ netmod mailing list netmod@ietf.org https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/netmod From netmod-bounces@ietf.org Sat Jan 24 08:39:00 2009 Return-Path: X-Original-To: netmod-archive@ietf.org Delivered-To: ietfarch-netmod-archive@core3.amsl.com Received: from [127.0.0.1] (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3771228C11C; Sat, 24 Jan 2009 08:39:00 -0800 (PST) X-Original-To: netmod@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: netmod@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id C17A428C14E for ; Sat, 24 Jan 2009 08:38:58 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.665 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.665 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-2.599, IP_NOT_FRIENDLY=0.334, J_CHICKENPOX_74=0.6] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id MlHln2cvjYEy for ; Sat, 24 Jan 2009 08:38:58 -0800 (PST) Received: from smtp126.sbc.mail.sp1.yahoo.com (smtp126.sbc.mail.sp1.yahoo.com [69.147.65.185]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with SMTP id A68CA28C11C for ; Sat, 24 Jan 2009 08:38:58 -0800 (PST) Received: (qmail 40856 invoked from network); 24 Jan 2009 16:32:02 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO ?127.0.0.1?) (andy@207.215.244.31 with plain) by smtp126.sbc.mail.sp1.yahoo.com with SMTP; 24 Jan 2009 16:32:00 -0000 X-YMail-OSG: eB4y_rcVM1lzVa_nWPDeAsAY3zwfgWT3Xs5PdLxqWmwnqOGP3RPyQtgXrCmVvpIeYysVGrOX_jsN.wcbU9rub7Aoe9gxVyflir0dPywL3vGmkZ9Ygvxu9CJNxP1ys93tS1m0vRDuHpvI4vF9OBulnUBbGXZqLMOxu9FdSvGf8rJ1VkBUr7b9kjBk X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: ymail-3 Message-ID: <497B427F.9000908@netconfcentral.com> Date: Sat, 24 Jan 2009 08:31:59 -0800 From: Andy Bierman User-Agent: Thunderbird 2.0.0.19 (Windows/20081209) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: NETMOD Working Group Cc: NETCONF Subject: [netmod] netconf.yang X-BeenThere: netmod@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.9 Precedence: list List-Id: NETMOD WG list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; Format="flowed" Sender: netmod-bounces@ietf.org Errors-To: netmod-bounces@ietf.org Hi, I published an I-D containing the netconf.yang module I wrote. I do not know if this would be a NETCONF work item, a NETMOD work item, or just an Informational individual submission. http://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-bierman-netmod-netconf-module-00.txt I agree with Phil and others that the solution for the 'with-defaults' feature should entail augmenting the appropriate RPC input sections with a leaf of some sort, rather than passing parameters on the side, via the XML attributes. This is a cleaner approach in both design and access control enforcement. In order to augment the NETCONF RPC methods, ever, for any reason, some choices will have to be made: - Should YANG and DSDL be supported, or just XSD? The NETMOD WG has declared XSD dead, long live DSDL, but the NETCONF WG has only XSD specifications. At some point, some convergence would be in order. - The 4741 XSD cannot be augmented, except in some anticipated nodes, such as adding new rpcOperationTypes. Adding new parameters to existing RPC operations is not currently supported by this XSD. If the 'with-defaults' work item in the new charter gets approved, then I would like a short timeslot at IETF #74 to discuss the netconf.yang draft and these issues. thanks, Andy _______________________________________________ netmod mailing list netmod@ietf.org https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/netmod From netmod-bounces@ietf.org Sat Jan 24 09:13:48 2009 Return-Path: X-Original-To: netmod-archive@ietf.org Delivered-To: ietfarch-netmod-archive@core3.amsl.com Received: from [127.0.0.1] (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1B8AC28C153; Sat, 24 Jan 2009 09:13:48 -0800 (PST) X-Original-To: netmod@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: netmod@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id E452028C301 for ; Sat, 24 Jan 2009 09:13:46 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.965 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.965 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=0.300, BAYES_00=-2.599, IP_NOT_FRIENDLY=0.334] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id syleIWczgJqq for ; Sat, 24 Jan 2009 09:13:46 -0800 (PST) Received: from smtp116.sbc.mail.sp1.yahoo.com (smtp116.sbc.mail.sp1.yahoo.com [69.147.64.89]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with SMTP id 3806D28C153 for ; Sat, 24 Jan 2009 09:13:46 -0800 (PST) Received: (qmail 43865 invoked from network); 24 Jan 2009 17:13:28 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO ?127.0.0.1?) (andy@207.215.244.31 with plain) by smtp116.sbc.mail.sp1.yahoo.com with SMTP; 24 Jan 2009 17:13:27 -0000 X-YMail-OSG: rQB3lVMVM1nc37OjGphQf6wDHd7I8SWSJjz8qSMW_7zDyyWYE_zR0PbWBnaljw8fPmaNfRvwaKIhbeo8ZQE8LKBqjJP58xvXRxuQEfJQTGlk19PkXdqi.m7vWt5h5UFLQftFdS8XDovM6JGMPffqnfLO6eQNJ5mSN1TUaoEF82qHP3eYYAKIqmTQ X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: ymail-3 Message-ID: <497B4C35.9050409@netconfcentral.com> Date: Sat, 24 Jan 2009 09:13:25 -0800 From: Andy Bierman User-Agent: Thunderbird 2.0.0.19 (Windows/20081209) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: NETMOD Working Group Subject: [netmod] YANG Usage Guidelines X-BeenThere: netmod@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.9 Precedence: list List-Id: NETMOD WG list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; Format="flowed" Sender: netmod-bounces@ietf.org Errors-To: netmod-bounces@ietf.org Hi, I published an I-D that is intended to be a RFC 4181 counterpart for YANG. http://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-bierman-netmod-yang-usage-00.txt If network management was brand new, and we didn't have almost 20 years experience with NM data models, then I would say it was far too early to establish best current practices for YANG. But since YANG is so much more complex and powerful than SMIv2, IMO it makes sense to apply the lessons learned from standards-track MIB modules right away to standards-track YANG modules. The draft also contains 'yang-registry.yang'. I like the idea of conserving XML namespaces, rather than have every little bit ever added using a new XML namespace. That will get out of control very quickly. The idea is to use a virtual main module to contain only include statements, and all the real definitions would be published independently, using submodules. Each time, the registry would be updated, without republishing the main module RFC, just to add an include statement and a new revision statement. The virtual registry would be requested from IANA when the main module RFC is published, and this RFC reference will not need to be updated when submodule RFCs are published. (The normative reference from submodule RFC to main module RFC does not go away.) There would need to be some flag in the 'real' main module in this RFC to identify the registry that actually contains the include statement information to use. Perhaps this idea is too far outside the IETF way of doing things to make sense, but I thought I would throw it in the draft anyway. I would like a short timeslot at IETF #74 to discuss this draft. thanks, Andy _______________________________________________ netmod mailing list netmod@ietf.org https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/netmod From netmod-bounces@ietf.org Sun Jan 25 02:58:30 2009 Return-Path: X-Original-To: netmod-archive@ietf.org Delivered-To: ietfarch-netmod-archive@core3.amsl.com Received: from [127.0.0.1] (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id EE4C73A6925; Sun, 25 Jan 2009 02:58:30 -0800 (PST) X-Original-To: netmod@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: netmod@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id BFE513A69D0 for ; Sun, 25 Jan 2009 02:58:29 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.487 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.487 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=0.112, BAYES_00=-2.599] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id odceDAEGkCMe for ; Sun, 25 Jan 2009 02:58:29 -0800 (PST) Received: from co300216-co-outbound.avaya.com (co300216-co-outbound.net.avaya.com [198.152.13.100]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id C8F433A6925 for ; Sun, 25 Jan 2009 02:58:28 -0800 (PST) X-IronPort-AV: E=Sophos;i="4.37,321,1231131600"; d="url'?txt'?scan'208";a="158941996" Received: from unknown (HELO nj300815-nj-erheast.avaya.com) ([198.152.6.5]) by co300216-co-outbound.avaya.com with ESMTP; 25 Jan 2009 05:57:56 -0500 Received: from unknown (HELO 307622ANEX5.global.avaya.com) ([135.64.140.10]) by nj300815-nj-erheast-out.avaya.com with ESMTP; 25 Jan 2009 05:57:55 -0500 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft Exchange V6.5 Content-class: urn:content-classes:message MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="----_=_NextPart_001_01C97EDB.BADC2DFE" Date: Sun, 25 Jan 2009 11:57:33 +0100 Message-ID: X-MS-Has-Attach: yes X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: Thread-Topic: I-D Action:draft-bierman-netmod-yang-usage-00.txt Thread-Index: Acl9x3sRI4gC72iRQHe8U1AgcpIaHQBEwFcQ From: "Romascanu, Dan (Dan)" To: Subject: [netmod] FW: I-D Action:draft-bierman-netmod-yang-usage-00.txt X-BeenThere: netmod@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.9 Precedence: list List-Id: NETMOD WG list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: netmod-bounces@ietf.org Errors-To: netmod-bounces@ietf.org This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------_=_NextPart_001_01C97EDB.BADC2DFE Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable This is a very welcome contribution IMO. I do not believe that it can be completed before the basic YANG The YANG data modeling language and semantics document is approved and published, but it should follow it not much later. Maybe the WG can consider chartering this as an addition to the existing charter, so that the work is not fully serialized.=20 As initial comment - the document would benefit from a section or annex including a YANG modules review checklist similar to Annex A in RFC 4181.=20 Dan (speaking as AD and contributor) -----Original Message----- From: i-d-announce-bounces@ietf.org [mailto:i-d-announce-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of Internet-Drafts@ietf.org Sent: Saturday, January 24, 2009 4:00 AM To: i-d-announce@ietf.org Subject: I-D Action:draft-bierman-netmod-yang-usage-00.txt=20 A New Internet-Draft is available from the on-line Internet-Drafts directories. Title : Guidelines for Authors and Reviewers of YANG Data Model Documents Author(s) : A. Bierman Filename : draft-bierman-netmod-yang-usage-00.txt Pages : 25 Date : 2009-01-23 This memo provides guidelines for authors and reviewers of standards track specifications containing YANG data model modules. Applicable portions may be used as a basis for reviews of other YANG data model documents. Recommendations and procedures are defined, which are intended to increase interoperability and usability of NETCONF implementations which utilize YANG data model modules. A URL for this Internet-Draft is: http://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-bierman-netmod-yang-usage-00.t xt Internet-Drafts are also available by anonymous FTP at: ftp://ftp.ietf.org/internet-drafts/ Below is the data which will enable a MIME compliant mail reader implementation to automatically retrieve the ASCII version of the Internet-Draft. ------_=_NextPart_001_01C97EDB.BADC2DFE Content-Type: application/octet-stream; name="draft-bierman-netmod-yang-usage-00.URL" Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 Content-Description: draft-bierman-netmod-yang-usage-00.URL Content-Disposition: attachment; filename="draft-bierman-netmod-yang-usage-00.URL" W0ludGVybmV0U2hvcnRjdXRdDQpVUkw9ZnRwOi8vZnRwLmlldGYub3JnL2ludGVybmV0LWRyYWZ0 cy9kcmFmdC1iaWVybWFuLW5ldG1vZC15YW5nLXVzYWdlLTAwLnR4dA0K ------_=_NextPart_001_01C97EDB.BADC2DFE Content-Type: text/plain; name="ATT1807633.txt" Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 Content-Description: ATT1807633.txt Content-Disposition: attachment; filename="ATT1807633.txt" X19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX18NCkktRC1Bbm5v dW5jZSBtYWlsaW5nIGxpc3QNCkktRC1Bbm5vdW5jZUBpZXRmLm9yZw0KaHR0cHM6Ly93d3cuaWV0 Zi5vcmcvbWFpbG1hbi9saXN0aW5mby9pLWQtYW5ub3VuY2UNCkludGVybmV0LURyYWZ0IGRpcmVj dG9yaWVzOiBodHRwOi8vd3d3LmlldGYub3JnL3NoYWRvdy5odG1sDQpvciBmdHA6Ly9mdHAuaWV0 Zi5vcmcvaWV0Zi8xc2hhZG93LXNpdGVzLnR4dA0K ------_=_NextPart_001_01C97EDB.BADC2DFE Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline _______________________________________________ netmod mailing list netmod@ietf.org https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/netmod ------_=_NextPart_001_01C97EDB.BADC2DFE-- From netmod-bounces@ietf.org Sun Jan 25 08:15:49 2009 Return-Path: X-Original-To: netmod-archive@ietf.org Delivered-To: ietfarch-netmod-archive@core3.amsl.com Received: from [127.0.0.1] (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9E0283A6829; Sun, 25 Jan 2009 08:15:49 -0800 (PST) X-Original-To: netmod@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: netmod@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id CD4F83A6977 for ; Sun, 25 Jan 2009 08:15:48 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.065 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.065 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=0.200, BAYES_00=-2.599, IP_NOT_FRIENDLY=0.334] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 6iJ4pdYyUc7B for ; Sun, 25 Jan 2009 08:15:48 -0800 (PST) Received: from smtp120.sbc.mail.sp1.yahoo.com (smtp120.sbc.mail.sp1.yahoo.com [69.147.64.93]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with SMTP id 08AE33A6829 for ; Sun, 25 Jan 2009 08:15:48 -0800 (PST) Received: (qmail 45849 invoked from network); 25 Jan 2009 16:15:30 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO ?127.0.0.1?) (andy@207.215.244.31 with plain) by smtp120.sbc.mail.sp1.yahoo.com with SMTP; 25 Jan 2009 16:15:28 -0000 X-YMail-OSG: Dy9wWsYVM1nnknNXLIyDl1yZ.77A3jEzg0qbdyO4e7ng0Gu6DqS5Qp4vzcwF1u96dXVaD8MHpIJaFA7pswo52.LB1Rnkm1akFmW5pk6skA0tUUkT63WDlM7Bt7b3Yqu5ZU0o.7sVsJ.UuzIJzHvNzyxYQPuRl2OREgiRzp8Br528RkxNQk09rg7R X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: ymail-3 Message-ID: <497C901E.4090005@netconfcentral.com> Date: Sun, 25 Jan 2009 08:15:26 -0800 From: Andy Bierman User-Agent: Thunderbird 2.0.0.19 (Windows/20081209) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: "Romascanu, Dan (Dan)" References: In-Reply-To: Cc: netmod@ietf.org Subject: Re: [netmod] FW: I-D Action:draft-bierman-netmod-yang-usage-00.txt X-BeenThere: netmod@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.9 Precedence: list List-Id: NETMOD WG list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; Format="flowed" Sender: netmod-bounces@ietf.org Errors-To: netmod-bounces@ietf.org Romascanu, Dan (Dan) wrote: > This is a very welcome contribution IMO. I do not believe that it can > be completed before the basic YANG The YANG data modeling language and > semantics document is approved and published, but it should follow it > not much later. Maybe the WG can consider chartering this as an addition > to the existing charter, so that the work is not fully serialized. > The intent is that this BCP would follow the YANG RFC, and get finalized after YANG is finalized (of course). My concern is that YANG has insufficient standards value without some guidelines. YANG data modelers who plan on getting YANG modules approved by the IETF need to understand the criteria used to review YANG modules. IMO, the conformance specified in the YANG draft allows for modules with minimal documentation value, so that RFC alone will not be sufficient to meet IETF documentation quality expectations. > As initial comment - the document would benefit from a section or annex > including a YANG modules review checklist similar to Annex A in RFC > 4181. > agreed, that is TBD > Dan > Andy > (speaking as AD and contributor) > > -----Original Message----- > From: i-d-announce-bounces@ietf.org > [mailto:i-d-announce-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of > Internet-Drafts@ietf.org > Sent: Saturday, January 24, 2009 4:00 AM > To: i-d-announce@ietf.org > Subject: I-D Action:draft-bierman-netmod-yang-usage-00.txt > > A New Internet-Draft is available from the on-line Internet-Drafts > directories. > > Title : Guidelines for Authors and Reviewers of YANG > Data Model Documents > Author(s) : A. Bierman > Filename : draft-bierman-netmod-yang-usage-00.txt > Pages : 25 > Date : 2009-01-23 > > This memo provides guidelines for authors and reviewers of standards > track specifications containing YANG data model modules. Applicable > portions may be used as a basis for reviews of other YANG data model > documents. Recommendations and procedures are defined, which are > intended to increase interoperability and usability of NETCONF > implementations which utilize YANG data model modules. > > A URL for this Internet-Draft is: > http://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-bierman-netmod-yang-usage-00.t > xt > > Internet-Drafts are also available by anonymous FTP at: > ftp://ftp.ietf.org/internet-drafts/ > > Below is the data which will enable a MIME compliant mail reader > implementation to automatically retrieve the ASCII version of the > Internet-Draft. > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > _______________________________________________ > netmod mailing list > netmod@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/netmod _______________________________________________ netmod mailing list netmod@ietf.org https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/netmod From netmod-bounces@ietf.org Sun Jan 25 09:54:46 2009 Return-Path: X-Original-To: netmod-archive@ietf.org Delivered-To: ietfarch-netmod-archive@core3.amsl.com Received: from [127.0.0.1] (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 01DBB3A6918; Sun, 25 Jan 2009 09:54:46 -0800 (PST) X-Original-To: netmod@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: netmod@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 691343A6AA7 for ; Sun, 25 Jan 2009 09:54:45 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.115 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.115 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=0.150, BAYES_00=-2.599, IP_NOT_FRIENDLY=0.334] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id rhpue2b4LjfC for ; Sun, 25 Jan 2009 09:54:44 -0800 (PST) Received: from smtp128.sbc.mail.sp1.yahoo.com (smtp128.sbc.mail.sp1.yahoo.com [69.147.65.187]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with SMTP id C94A53A6918 for ; Sun, 25 Jan 2009 09:54:44 -0800 (PST) Received: (qmail 54482 invoked from network); 25 Jan 2009 17:54:26 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO ?127.0.0.1?) (andy@207.215.244.31 with plain) by smtp128.sbc.mail.sp1.yahoo.com with SMTP; 25 Jan 2009 17:54:25 -0000 X-YMail-OSG: dq1PMMcVM1lrby7H1HxeZdDTIiDy1HNLRV9wQmWu0bZQlPbE43DZV6N9MjBsxKBKsvVmegYNexWllQZJo.X95cI_yi7d03UqfnXg_h5Gah28gZ0BBjP_QAIw8dd1HzHV7o2poSVPQH2_Fp7dw5BTrGaP X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: ymail-3 Message-ID: <497CA74F.2010407@netconfcentral.com> Date: Sun, 25 Jan 2009 09:54:23 -0800 From: Andy Bierman User-Agent: Thunderbird 2.0.0.19 (Windows/20081209) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: NETMOD Working Group Subject: [netmod] leaf-list and subtree filtering X-BeenThere: netmod@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.9 Precedence: list List-Id: NETMOD WG list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; Format="flowed" Sender: netmod-bounces@ietf.org Errors-To: netmod-bounces@ietf.org Hi, Perhaps it is worth mentioning (in YANG or NETCONF-bis) that subtree filtering 'content match nodes' are incompatible with the YANG leaf-list construct, unless all the nodes in the leaf-list have the same value: (namespaces removed for simplicity) fred fred barney wilma This example shows a leaf-list at the top-level. Since the content-match tests are AND-ed together, any non-match cancels out all the siblings. (A failed content-match test at the top-level forces the entire result to be empty, so avoid them.) The value of a leaf list vs. an XSD list is more apparent with XPath filtering, because tests like "*[foo='fred']" can select a parent node if 'fred' is a member of the child leaf-list . The limitations of subtree filtering are considerable. I hope at some point it is deprecated and XPath is mandatory instead. Andy _______________________________________________ netmod mailing list netmod@ietf.org https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/netmod From netmod-bounces@ietf.org Sun Jan 25 11:54:03 2009 Return-Path: X-Original-To: netmod-archive@ietf.org Delivered-To: ietfarch-netmod-archive@core3.amsl.com Received: from [127.0.0.1] (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id E24A23A67E9; Sun, 25 Jan 2009 11:54:03 -0800 (PST) X-Original-To: netmod@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: netmod@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 95FA728C182 for ; Sun, 25 Jan 2009 11:54:03 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.007 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.007 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=0.039, BAYES_00=-2.599, HELO_MISMATCH_COM=0.553] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 9Foh57SWuABj for ; Sun, 25 Jan 2009 11:54:02 -0800 (PST) Received: from mail.tail-f.com (de-0316.d.ipeer.se [213.180.79.212]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id C1A1F3A6954 for ; Sun, 25 Jan 2009 11:54:02 -0800 (PST) Received: from localhost (c213-100-167-236.swipnet.se [213.100.167.236]) by mail.tail-f.com (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id C36A076C229; Sun, 25 Jan 2009 20:53:44 +0100 (CET) Date: Sun, 25 Jan 2009 20:53:44 +0100 (CET) Message-Id: <20090125.205344.216637668.mbj@tail-f.com> To: andy@netconfcentral.com From: Martin Bjorklund In-Reply-To: <497CA74F.2010407@netconfcentral.com> References: <497CA74F.2010407@netconfcentral.com> X-Mailer: Mew version 6.0.51 on Emacs 22.2 / Mule 5.0 (SAKAKI) Mime-Version: 1.0 Cc: netmod@ietf.org Subject: Re: [netmod] leaf-list and subtree filtering X-BeenThere: netmod@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.9 Precedence: list List-Id: NETMOD WG list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: netmod-bounces@ietf.org Errors-To: netmod-bounces@ietf.org Hi, Andy Bierman wrote: > > > > fred > > > > > > fred > barney > wilma > > > > > > > This example shows a leaf-list at the top-level. > Since the content-match tests are AND-ed together, > any non-match cancels out all the siblings. I don't agree. Since there is a node in the data store that matches the content match node fred, all sibling nodes at this level are selected. content-match siblings are AND-ed together, but in this example there is just one node (no siblings in the filter). > The value of a leaf list vs. an XSD list > is more apparent with XPath filtering, > because tests like "*[foo='fred']" can > select a parent node if 'fred' is a member > of the child leaf-list . 5.2.5 of 4741 explicitly states that subtree filtering does not support (XSD) list content. /martin _______________________________________________ netmod mailing list netmod@ietf.org https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/netmod From netmod-bounces@ietf.org Sun Jan 25 12:14:10 2009 Return-Path: X-Original-To: netmod-archive@ietf.org Delivered-To: ietfarch-netmod-archive@core3.amsl.com Received: from [127.0.0.1] (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2ADC43A6A86; Sun, 25 Jan 2009 12:14:10 -0800 (PST) X-Original-To: netmod@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: netmod@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 913443A6A97 for ; Sun, 25 Jan 2009 12:14:08 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.282 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.282 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=-0.017, BAYES_00=-2.599, IP_NOT_FRIENDLY=0.334] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id fjtogqoe6Dgf for ; Sun, 25 Jan 2009 12:14:07 -0800 (PST) Received: from smtp128.sbc.mail.sp1.yahoo.com (smtp128.sbc.mail.sp1.yahoo.com [69.147.65.187]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with SMTP id D96153A6A86 for ; Sun, 25 Jan 2009 12:14:07 -0800 (PST) Received: (qmail 50058 invoked from network); 25 Jan 2009 20:13:50 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO ?127.0.0.1?) (andy@207.215.244.31 with plain) by smtp128.sbc.mail.sp1.yahoo.com with SMTP; 25 Jan 2009 20:13:49 -0000 X-YMail-OSG: G3FGMQUVM1kFaSCD8EzFi3BqC5BfQcm32a8m0d.bvyKCSUPhXfz.PYrC93823Xe6PpRqMN2Bj9V37PUz1r6dffBGw8WX6Sbp8NjyUjOYye1xpbRNY5qxhf_9kBm9aO5CU.exAAuiuZ8PkPNWYB7XpaC5l7ooiWLy1Zw_S_nLqoga1e6Dyd7EUOFDvlYl.z.PdvfzY5w.VuatvGc0TFapug-- X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: ymail-3 Message-ID: <497CC7FB.1010005@netconfcentral.com> Date: Sun, 25 Jan 2009 12:13:47 -0800 From: Andy Bierman User-Agent: Thunderbird 2.0.0.19 (Windows/20081209) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Martin Bjorklund References: <497CA74F.2010407@netconfcentral.com> <20090125.205344.216637668.mbj@tail-f.com> In-Reply-To: <20090125.205344.216637668.mbj@tail-f.com> Cc: netmod@ietf.org Subject: Re: [netmod] leaf-list and subtree filtering X-BeenThere: netmod@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.9 Precedence: list List-Id: NETMOD WG list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; Format="flowed" Sender: netmod-bounces@ietf.org Errors-To: netmod-bounces@ietf.org Martin Bjorklund wrote: > Hi, > > Andy Bierman wrote: >> >> >> >> fred >> >> >> >> >> >> fred >> barney >> wilma >> >> >> >> >> >> >> This example shows a leaf-list at the top-level. >> Since the content-match tests are AND-ed together, >> any non-match cancels out all the siblings. > > I don't agree. Since there is a node in the data store that matches > the content match node fred, all sibling nodes at this > level are selected. > From RFC 4741, 6.2.5: A leaf node that contains simple content is called a "content match node". It is used to select some or all of its sibling nodes for filter output, and it represents an exact-match filter on the leaf node element content. The following constraints apply to content match nodes: o A content match node must not contain nested elements (i.e., must resolve to a simpleType in the XML Schema Definition (XSD)). o Multiple content match nodes (i.e., sibling nodes) are logically combined in an "AND" expression. This 2nd bullet needs to be clarified in 4741-bis. It is confusing whether it means that every content match (CM) node which matches the QName of CM node must also match in content as well, or if it means that at least one match of the CM node QName must contain the specified value (and just that leaf-list node is selected, since they are all unique in value). I do not think the RFC is clear on this issue at all. I get it that multiple content match node tests are AND-ed together. That is all the 2nd bullet addresses. fred 7 It's fine with me to interpret the intended behavior as "at least one instance" of each CM node must match the content of the CM node, not "every instance" must match. That is more useful. The current RFC is silent on this issue, so 4741-bis should have some text added to fix it. > content-match siblings are AND-ed together, but in this example there > is just one node (no siblings in the filter). > >> The value of a leaf list vs. an XSD list >> is more apparent with XPath filtering, >> because tests like "*[foo='fred']" can >> select a parent node if 'fred' is a member >> of the child leaf-list . > > 5.2.5 of 4741 explicitly states that subtree filtering does not > support (XSD) list content. > > > /martin > > > Andy _______________________________________________ netmod mailing list netmod@ietf.org https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/netmod From netmod-bounces@ietf.org Sun Jan 25 12:55:38 2009 Return-Path: X-Original-To: netmod-archive@ietf.org Delivered-To: ietfarch-netmod-archive@core3.amsl.com Received: from [127.0.0.1] (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 75F323A6B7A; Sun, 25 Jan 2009 12:55:38 -0800 (PST) X-Original-To: netmod@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: netmod@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 633FE3A6B91 for ; Sun, 25 Jan 2009 12:55:37 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.277 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.277 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=-0.012, BAYES_00=-2.599, IP_NOT_FRIENDLY=0.334] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id z2jC0IP5yBzy for ; Sun, 25 Jan 2009 12:55:36 -0800 (PST) Received: from smtp124.sbc.mail.sp1.yahoo.com (smtp124.sbc.mail.sp1.yahoo.com [69.147.64.97]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with SMTP id 77B1B3A6B88 for ; Sun, 25 Jan 2009 12:55:36 -0800 (PST) Received: (qmail 20489 invoked from network); 25 Jan 2009 20:55:18 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO ?127.0.0.1?) (andy@207.215.244.31 with plain) by smtp124.sbc.mail.sp1.yahoo.com with SMTP; 25 Jan 2009 20:55:17 -0000 X-YMail-OSG: j.bO8oAVM1n8SYwFg9y0u_lbWpBGhyyHQkq4cH.1fgnr0voYXWdFapERnC2TcD2I5PbFNVNnjy3mDhrPpGJZziKGMAQU6BjnnP8zdGOoTLhEz40rLdqLwGG87oDl9JyW16yyrodtU4GoqU54iXdMhltgY.XdpJ_XTS6Aasy2Mnoa5MSr3o3X4LMJ X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: ymail-3 Message-ID: <497CD1B3.7050700@netconfcentral.com> Date: Sun, 25 Jan 2009 12:55:15 -0800 From: Andy Bierman User-Agent: Thunderbird 2.0.0.19 (Windows/20081209) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Martin Bjorklund References: <497CA74F.2010407@netconfcentral.com> <20090125.205344.216637668.mbj@tail-f.com> <497CC7FB.1010005@netconfcentral.com> In-Reply-To: <497CC7FB.1010005@netconfcentral.com> Cc: netmod@ietf.org Subject: Re: [netmod] leaf-list and subtree filtering X-BeenThere: netmod@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.9 Precedence: list List-Id: NETMOD WG list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; Format="flowed" Sender: netmod-bounces@ietf.org Errors-To: netmod-bounces@ietf.org Andy Bierman wrote: > Martin Bjorklund wrote: >> Hi, >> more filtering clarifications needed (maybe NETCONF-bis): - If a content match node contains any attribute tests, does this affect the CM test? If so, exactly how, and in what order are these tests done? - If an XPath or subtree filter selects multiple YANG list entries (which could be nested within a particular node), the agent will fill in any missing key leafs that are required to fully specify each list instance returned. - The order of nodes within the filter has no impact on the order of nodes returned in a response. List key leafs are not required to be generated first, as they are within input to the agent. Andy >> Andy Bierman wrote: >>> >>> >>> >>> fred >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> fred >>> barney >>> wilma >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> This example shows a leaf-list at the top-level. >>> Since the content-match tests are AND-ed together, >>> any non-match cancels out all the siblings. >> >> I don't agree. Since there is a node in the data store that matches >> the content match node fred, all sibling nodes at this >> level are selected. >> > > From RFC 4741, 6.2.5: > > A leaf node that contains simple content is called a "content match > node". It is used to select some or all of its sibling nodes for > filter output, and it represents an exact-match filter on the leaf > node element content. The following constraints apply to content > match nodes: > > o A content match node must not contain nested elements (i.e., must > resolve to a simpleType in the XML Schema Definition (XSD)). > > o Multiple content match nodes (i.e., sibling nodes) are logically > combined in an "AND" expression. > > > This 2nd bullet needs to be clarified in 4741-bis. > It is confusing whether it means that every > content match (CM) node which matches the QName of CM node > must also match in content as well, or if it means > that at least one match of the CM node QName must contain > the specified value (and just that leaf-list node > is selected, since they are all unique in value). > > I do not think the RFC is clear on this issue at all. > > I get it that multiple content match node tests are > AND-ed together. That is all the 2nd bullet addresses. > > > fred > 7 > > > It's fine with me to interpret the intended behavior > as "at least one instance" of each CM node must match > the content of the CM node, not "every instance" must match. > That is more useful. The current RFC is silent > on this issue, so 4741-bis should have some text added > to fix it. > > >> content-match siblings are AND-ed together, but in this example there >> is just one node (no siblings in the filter). >> >>> The value of a leaf list vs. an XSD list >>> is more apparent with XPath filtering, >>> because tests like "*[foo='fred']" can >>> select a parent node if 'fred' is a member >>> of the child leaf-list . >> >> 5.2.5 of 4741 explicitly states that subtree filtering does not >> support (XSD) list content. >> >> >> /martin >> >> >> > > Andy > > _______________________________________________ > netmod mailing list > netmod@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/netmod > > > _______________________________________________ netmod mailing list netmod@ietf.org https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/netmod From netmod-bounces@ietf.org Sun Jan 25 13:21:18 2009 Return-Path: X-Original-To: netmod-archive@ietf.org Delivered-To: ietfarch-netmod-archive@core3.amsl.com Received: from [127.0.0.1] (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 20AA428C1BF; Sun, 25 Jan 2009 13:21:18 -0800 (PST) X-Original-To: netmod@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: netmod@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5D7A428C1A2 for ; Sun, 25 Jan 2009 13:21:17 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.009 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.009 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=0.037, BAYES_00=-2.599, HELO_MISMATCH_COM=0.553] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id zrwn9XJfnakN for ; Sun, 25 Jan 2009 13:21:16 -0800 (PST) Received: from mail.tail-f.com (de-0316.d.ipeer.se [213.180.79.212]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8AB3A28C199 for ; Sun, 25 Jan 2009 13:21:16 -0800 (PST) Received: from localhost (c213-100-167-236.swipnet.se [213.100.167.236]) by mail.tail-f.com (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 7DFA076C229; Sun, 25 Jan 2009 22:20:58 +0100 (CET) Date: Sun, 25 Jan 2009 22:20:49 +0100 (CET) Message-Id: <20090125.222049.177310602.mbj@tail-f.com> To: andy@netconfcentral.com From: Martin Bjorklund In-Reply-To: <497CD1B3.7050700@netconfcentral.com> References: <20090125.205344.216637668.mbj@tail-f.com> <497CC7FB.1010005@netconfcentral.com> <497CD1B3.7050700@netconfcentral.com> X-Mailer: Mew version 6.0.51 on Emacs 22.2 / Mule 5.0 (SAKAKI) Mime-Version: 1.0 Cc: netmod@ietf.org Subject: Re: [netmod] leaf-list and subtree filtering X-BeenThere: netmod@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.9 Precedence: list List-Id: NETMOD WG list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Sender: netmod-bounces@ietf.org Errors-To: netmod-bounces@ietf.org Andy Bierman wrote: > - If an XPath or subtree filter selects multiple > YANG list entries (which could be nested within > a particular node), the agent will fill in > any missing key leafs that are required to > fully specify each list instance returned. I agree with this for XPath filtering. XPath just selects a node set, and 4741bis must specify how this node set is returned in the rpc-reply. But for subtree filtering, this would be a real change. 4741 says: The agent does not need to utilize any data-model specific semantics during processing, allowing for simple and centralized implementation strategies. Adding key values would change this - the agent would have to utilize data-model specific information. So, if a client has some selection nodes for a list entry, it better include selection nodes for all keys as well. The result isn=E4t very useful w/o the keys. /martin _______________________________________________ netmod mailing list netmod@ietf.org https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/netmod From netmod-bounces@ietf.org Sun Jan 25 13:42:02 2009 Return-Path: X-Original-To: netmod-archive@ietf.org Delivered-To: ietfarch-netmod-archive@core3.amsl.com Received: from [127.0.0.1] (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id C5CD428C1CA; Sun, 25 Jan 2009 13:42:02 -0800 (PST) X-Original-To: netmod@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: netmod@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1643528C1F6 for ; Sun, 25 Jan 2009 13:42:01 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.276 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.276 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=-0.011, BAYES_00=-2.599, IP_NOT_FRIENDLY=0.334] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id b4YD7nHBRKNJ for ; Sun, 25 Jan 2009 13:41:55 -0800 (PST) Received: from smtp117.sbc.mail.sp1.yahoo.com (smtp117.sbc.mail.sp1.yahoo.com [69.147.64.90]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with SMTP id BFF8528C1DC for ; Sun, 25 Jan 2009 13:41:55 -0800 (PST) Received: (qmail 73358 invoked from network); 25 Jan 2009 21:41:38 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO ?127.0.0.1?) (andy@207.215.244.31 with plain) by smtp117.sbc.mail.sp1.yahoo.com with SMTP; 25 Jan 2009 21:41:37 -0000 X-YMail-OSG: YD03C2kVM1nPCWtW5.TbbcZpDQbW9E7ukb.AKzFkouUBGpu9zsOU35ouUHBTQzCm.ghCvyGzU5JGX5ogz1SUv.ULkXeuFMckdhKw02JwjmgHf4Z2ZEWLUc6g0afMKSplOY2a7W.sTBzvmSWtbAhaIejXlkefkMYYKYEiLQ0yynRUgq87G47HNfaHXFb_wOSJSen.wLr_2NL0OSMkTaK54A-- X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: ymail-3 Message-ID: <497CDC8F.2090405@netconfcentral.com> Date: Sun, 25 Jan 2009 13:41:35 -0800 From: Andy Bierman User-Agent: Thunderbird 2.0.0.19 (Windows/20081209) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Martin Bjorklund References: <20090125.205344.216637668.mbj@tail-f.com> <497CC7FB.1010005@netconfcentral.com> <497CD1B3.7050700@netconfcentral.com> <20090125.222049.177310602.mbj@tail-f.com> In-Reply-To: <20090125.222049.177310602.mbj@tail-f.com> Cc: netmod@ietf.org Subject: Re: [netmod] leaf-list and subtree filtering X-BeenThere: netmod@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.9 Precedence: list List-Id: NETMOD WG list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"; Format="flowed" Sender: netmod-bounces@ietf.org Errors-To: netmod-bounces@ietf.org Martin Bjorklund wrote: > Andy Bierman wrote: >> - If an XPath or subtree filter selects multiple >> YANG list entries (which could be nested within >> a particular node), the agent will fill in >> any missing key leafs that are required to >> fully specify each list instance returned. > = > I agree with this for XPath filtering. XPath just selects a node set, > and 4741bis must specify how this node set is returned in the > rpc-reply. Lots to clarify there. I get confused by stuff like the fact that a missing prefix in an instance-identifier or leafref path means use the current module prefix, but in an XPath expression, like select, must, or when, a missing prefix means an NCName test instead of a QName test, and any namespace will match. > = > But for subtree filtering, this would be a real change. 4741 says: > = > The agent does not need to utilize any data-model specific > semantics during processing, allowing for simple and centralized > implementation strategies. > = > Adding key values would change this - the agent would have to utilize > data-model specific information. So, if a client has some selection > nodes for a list entry, it better include selection nodes for all keys > as well. The result isn=E4t very useful w/o the keys. > = The text also says that once an XML namespace is selected by a node, then all descendants selected will also be from that XML namespace. I'm not implementing that either, since there is no way to pick up nested augment nodes any other way with subtree filtering. The text above says an 'agent does not need to', but that does not mean it can't add key leafs if it wants to understand that database node is really a YANG list entry. > = > /martin > = > = > = Andy _______________________________________________ netmod mailing list netmod@ietf.org https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/netmod From netmod-bounces@ietf.org Mon Jan 26 02:53:24 2009 Return-Path: X-Original-To: netmod-archive@ietf.org Delivered-To: ietfarch-netmod-archive@core3.amsl.com Received: from [127.0.0.1] (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9E11D3A6A6C; Mon, 26 Jan 2009 02:53:24 -0800 (PST) X-Original-To: netmod@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: netmod@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6E9803A6A97 for ; Mon, 26 Jan 2009 02:53:23 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.492 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.492 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=0.107, BAYES_00=-2.599] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id CFS6ACFDp5b2 for ; Mon, 26 Jan 2009 02:53:22 -0800 (PST) Received: from co300216-co-outbound.avaya.com (co300216-co-outbound.net.avaya.com [198.152.13.100]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 72A373A6A6C for ; Mon, 26 Jan 2009 02:53:22 -0800 (PST) X-IronPort-AV: E=Sophos;i="4.37,324,1231131600"; d="scan'208";a="158999034" Received: from unknown (HELO co300216-co-erhwest.avaya.com) ([198.152.7.5]) by co300216-co-outbound.avaya.com with ESMTP; 26 Jan 2009 05:53:04 -0500 Received: from unknown (HELO 307622ANEX5.global.avaya.com) ([135.64.140.10]) by co300216-co-erhwest-out.avaya.com with ESMTP; 26 Jan 2009 05:53:04 -0500 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft Exchange V6.5 Content-class: urn:content-classes:message MIME-Version: 1.0 Date: Mon, 26 Jan 2009 11:53:02 +0100 Message-ID: In-Reply-To: <497C901E.4090005@netconfcentral.com> X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: Thread-Topic: [netmod] FW: I-D Action:draft-bierman-netmod-yang-usage-00.txt Thread-Index: Acl/CCXtqf32q/oqRDyP3pkulPmbZgAm7aBw References: <497C901E.4090005@netconfcentral.com> From: "Romascanu, Dan (Dan)" To: "Andy Bierman" Cc: netmod@ietf.org Subject: Re: [netmod] FW: I-D Action:draft-bierman-netmod-yang-usage-00.txt X-BeenThere: netmod@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.9 Precedence: list List-Id: NETMOD WG list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: netmod-bounces@ietf.org Errors-To: netmod-bounces@ietf.org I agree and I would like to add one more point. To help the authors of future YANG modules and the reviewers we need at least one set of stable public domain tools that can be used during design and verification and be freely accessible. It would be desirable that these tools are integrated in the IETF tools set, but referring them from a place like the OPS Area Web pages could be an acceptable solution as well. Dan > -----Original Message----- > From: Andy Bierman [mailto:andy@netconfcentral.com] > Sent: Sunday, January 25, 2009 6:15 PM > To: Romascanu, Dan (Dan) > Cc: netmod@ietf.org > Subject: Re: [netmod] FW: I-D > Action:draft-bierman-netmod-yang-usage-00.txt > > Romascanu, Dan (Dan) wrote: > > This is a very welcome contribution IMO. I do not believe > that it can > > be completed before the basic YANG The YANG data modeling > language and > > semantics document is approved and published, but it should > follow it > > not much later. Maybe the WG can consider chartering this as an > > addition to the existing charter, so that the work is not > fully serialized. > > > > The intent is that this BCP would follow the YANG RFC, and > get finalized after YANG is finalized (of course). > > My concern is that YANG has insufficient standards value > without some guidelines. YANG data modelers who plan on > getting YANG modules approved by the IETF need to understand > the criteria used to review YANG modules. > > IMO, the conformance specified in the YANG draft allows for > modules with minimal documentation value, so that RFC alone > will not be sufficient to meet IETF documentation quality > expectations. > > > > As initial comment - the document would benefit from a section or > > annex including a YANG modules review checklist similar to > Annex A in > > RFC 4181. > > > > agreed, that is TBD > > > Dan > > > > Andy > > > (speaking as AD and contributor) > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: i-d-announce-bounces@ietf.org > > [mailto:i-d-announce-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of > > Internet-Drafts@ietf.org > > Sent: Saturday, January 24, 2009 4:00 AM > > To: i-d-announce@ietf.org > > Subject: I-D Action:draft-bierman-netmod-yang-usage-00.txt > > > > A New Internet-Draft is available from the on-line Internet-Drafts > > directories. > > > > Title : Guidelines for Authors and Reviewers of YANG > > Data Model Documents > > Author(s) : A. Bierman > > Filename : draft-bierman-netmod-yang-usage-00.txt > > Pages : 25 > > Date : 2009-01-23 > > > > This memo provides guidelines for authors and reviewers of > standards > > track specifications containing YANG data model modules. > Applicable > > portions may be used as a basis for reviews of other YANG > data model > > documents. Recommendations and procedures are defined, which are > > intended to increase interoperability and usability of NETCONF > > implementations which utilize YANG data model modules. > > > > A URL for this Internet-Draft is: > > > http://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-bierman-netmod-yang-usage-00 > > .t > > xt > > > > Internet-Drafts are also available by anonymous FTP at: > > ftp://ftp.ietf.org/internet-drafts/ > > > > Below is the data which will enable a MIME compliant mail reader > > implementation to automatically retrieve the ASCII version of the > > Internet-Draft. > > > > > > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > > -- > > > > _______________________________________________ > > netmod mailing list > > netmod@ietf.org > > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/netmod > > > _______________________________________________ netmod mailing list netmod@ietf.org https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/netmod From netmod-bounces@ietf.org Mon Jan 26 06:40:18 2009 Return-Path: X-Original-To: netmod-archive@ietf.org Delivered-To: ietfarch-netmod-archive@core3.amsl.com Received: from [127.0.0.1] (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7EF373A6909; Mon, 26 Jan 2009 06:40:18 -0800 (PST) X-Original-To: netmod@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: netmod@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3FEB628C204 for ; Mon, 26 Jan 2009 06:40:17 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: 0.225 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=0.225 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=-1.125, BAYES_50=0.001, HELO_EQ_CZ=0.445, HOST_EQ_CZ=0.904] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id EaW54Ovi2rQm for ; Mon, 26 Jan 2009 06:40:16 -0800 (PST) Received: from office2.cesnet.cz (office2.cesnet.cz [195.113.144.244]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7E4823A6909 for ; Mon, 26 Jan 2009 06:40:16 -0800 (PST) Received: from [172.29.2.201] (asus-gx.lhotka.cesnet.cz [195.113.161.161]) by office2.cesnet.cz (Postfix) with ESMTP id 604B3D800C5 for ; Mon, 26 Jan 2009 15:39:58 +0100 (CET) From: Ladislav Lhotka To: NETMOD Working Group Organization: CESNET Date: Mon, 26 Jan 2009 15:39:59 +0100 Message-Id: <1232980799.6324.74.camel@missotis> Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Evolution 2.22.3.1 Subject: [netmod] nested uses-stmt and refine X-BeenThere: netmod@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.9 Precedence: list List-Id: NETMOD WG list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: netmod-bounces@ietf.org Errors-To: netmod-bounces@ietf.org Hi, if the following is a valid module (pyang doesn't complain), which of the two default values applies? module test { namespace "http://example.com/test"; prefix test; grouping foo { container feuillage { uses bar { refine "feuille" { default 42; } } } } grouping bar { leaf feuille { type int8; } } uses foo { refine "feuillage/feuille" { default 64; } } } Lada -- Ladislav Lhotka, CESNET PGP Key ID: E74E8C0C _______________________________________________ netmod mailing list netmod@ietf.org https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/netmod From netmod-bounces@ietf.org Mon Jan 26 08:20:12 2009 Return-Path: X-Original-To: netmod-archive@ietf.org Delivered-To: ietfarch-netmod-archive@core3.amsl.com Received: from [127.0.0.1] (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 52DEB3A6BB8; Mon, 26 Jan 2009 08:20:12 -0800 (PST) X-Original-To: netmod@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: netmod@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id D975628C215 for ; Mon, 26 Jan 2009 08:20:09 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.399 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.399 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=-0.777, BAYES_00=-2.599, IP_NOT_FRIENDLY=0.334, RCVD_IN_NJABL_PROXY=1.643] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id FCUUQbhH6V95 for ; Mon, 26 Jan 2009 08:20:09 -0800 (PST) Received: from smtp126.sbc.mail.sp1.yahoo.com (smtp126.sbc.mail.sp1.yahoo.com [69.147.65.185]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with SMTP id 0254F3A6A79 for ; Mon, 26 Jan 2009 08:20:08 -0800 (PST) Received: (qmail 3491 invoked from network); 26 Jan 2009 16:19:51 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO ?127.0.0.1?) (andy@67.127.174.185 with plain) by smtp126.sbc.mail.sp1.yahoo.com with SMTP; 26 Jan 2009 16:19:49 -0000 X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: ymail-3 Message-ID: <497DE2A3.3080807@netconfcentral.com> Date: Mon, 26 Jan 2009 08:19:47 -0800 From: Andy Bierman User-Agent: Thunderbird 2.0.0.19 (Windows/20081209) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: "Romascanu, Dan (Dan)" References: <497C901E.4090005@netconfcentral.com> In-Reply-To: Cc: netmod@ietf.org Subject: Re: [netmod] FW: I-D Action:draft-bierman-netmod-yang-usage-00.txt X-BeenThere: netmod@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.9 Precedence: list List-Id: NETMOD WG list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; Format="flowed" Sender: netmod-bounces@ietf.org Errors-To: netmod-bounces@ietf.org Romascanu, Dan (Dan) wrote: > I agree and I would like to add one more point. To help the authors of > future YANG modules and the reviewers we need at least one set of stable > public domain tools that can be used during design and verification and > be freely accessible. It would be desirable that these tools are > integrated in the IETF tools set, but referring them from a place like > the OPS Area Web pages could be an acceptable solution as well. > good point. There are more people working on tools for YANG than any unpublished work I have ever seen in the IETF, especially for something as complex as a data modeling language. YANG has also changed dramatically over its 1 year of I-D history. Yet, despite all the "extra work for nothing" that has been incurred already, I think tools will be available soon after YANG stabilizes. I don't believe YANG will be stable until IETF Approval is reached. > Dan > Andy _______________________________________________ netmod mailing list netmod@ietf.org https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/netmod From netmod-bounces@ietf.org Mon Jan 26 12:31:56 2009 Return-Path: X-Original-To: netmod-archive@ietf.org Delivered-To: ietfarch-netmod-archive@core3.amsl.com Received: from [127.0.0.1] (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 460B53A685E; Mon, 26 Jan 2009 12:31:56 -0800 (PST) X-Original-To: netmod@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: netmod@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id ACBBC3A685E for ; Mon, 26 Jan 2009 12:31:54 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.01 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.01 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=0.036, BAYES_00=-2.599, HELO_MISMATCH_COM=0.553] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id bXOfRXN44ukf for ; Mon, 26 Jan 2009 12:31:54 -0800 (PST) Received: from mail.tail-f.com (de-0316.d.ipeer.se [213.180.79.212]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 646733A68D7 for ; Mon, 26 Jan 2009 12:31:53 -0800 (PST) Received: from localhost (c213-100-167-236.swipnet.se [213.100.167.236]) by mail.tail-f.com (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id A2D1676C252; Mon, 26 Jan 2009 21:31:35 +0100 (CET) Date: Mon, 26 Jan 2009 21:31:30 +0100 (CET) Message-Id: <20090126.213130.37710726.mbj@tail-f.com> To: andy@netconfcentral.com From: Martin Bjorklund In-Reply-To: <497DE2A3.3080807@netconfcentral.com> References: <497C901E.4090005@netconfcentral.com> <497DE2A3.3080807@netconfcentral.com> X-Mailer: Mew version 6.0.51 on Emacs 22.2 / Mule 5.0 (SAKAKI) Mime-Version: 1.0 Cc: netmod@ietf.org Subject: Re: [netmod] FW: I-D Action:draft-bierman-netmod-yang-usage-00.txt X-BeenThere: netmod@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.9 Precedence: list List-Id: NETMOD WG list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: netmod-bounces@ietf.org Errors-To: netmod-bounces@ietf.org Andy Bierman wrote: > Romascanu, Dan (Dan) wrote: > > I agree and I would like to add one more point. To help the authors of > > future YANG modules and the reviewers we need at least one set of > > stable > > public domain tools that can be used during design and verification > > and > > be freely accessible. It would be desirable that these tools are > > integrated in the IETF tools set, but referring them from a place like > > the OPS Area Web pages could be an acceptable solution as well. > > > > good point. If the WG accepts this doc, I plan to implement a 'ietf-check' plugin to one of those tools (pyang) which checks all the extra MUSTs and SHOULDs. /martin _______________________________________________ netmod mailing list netmod@ietf.org https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/netmod From netmod-bounces@ietf.org Mon Jan 26 12:34:29 2009 Return-Path: X-Original-To: netmod-archive@ietf.org Delivered-To: ietfarch-netmod-archive@core3.amsl.com Received: from [127.0.0.1] (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 79C193A68D7; Mon, 26 Jan 2009 12:34:29 -0800 (PST) X-Original-To: netmod@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: netmod@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id AB1613A6915 for ; Mon, 26 Jan 2009 12:34:27 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.01 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.01 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=0.036, BAYES_00=-2.599, HELO_MISMATCH_COM=0.553] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 0TzwSA0QLcQn for ; Mon, 26 Jan 2009 12:34:27 -0800 (PST) Received: from mail.tail-f.com (de-0316.d.ipeer.se [213.180.79.212]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id E7AB93A68D7 for ; Mon, 26 Jan 2009 12:34:26 -0800 (PST) Received: from localhost (c213-100-167-236.swipnet.se [213.100.167.236]) by mail.tail-f.com (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 3591876C252; Mon, 26 Jan 2009 21:34:09 +0100 (CET) Date: Mon, 26 Jan 2009 21:34:05 +0100 (CET) Message-Id: <20090126.213405.119677575.mbj@tail-f.com> To: lhotka@cesnet.cz From: Martin Bjorklund In-Reply-To: <1232980799.6324.74.camel@missotis> References: <1232980799.6324.74.camel@missotis> X-Mailer: Mew version 6.0.51 on Emacs 22.2 / Mule 5.0 (SAKAKI) Mime-Version: 1.0 Cc: netmod@ietf.org Subject: Re: [netmod] nested uses-stmt and refine X-BeenThere: netmod@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.9 Precedence: list List-Id: NETMOD WG list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: netmod-bounces@ietf.org Errors-To: netmod-bounces@ietf.org Ladislav Lhotka wrote: > Hi, > > if the following is a valid module (pyang doesn't complain), which of > the two default values applies? Yes it is legal. In the grouping 'foo', there is a leaf feuillage/feuille with the default '42'. In the data tree, there is a leaf /feuillage/feuille with the default '64'. /martin > module test { > namespace "http://example.com/test"; > prefix test; > grouping foo { > container feuillage { > uses bar { > refine "feuille" { > default 42; > } > } > } > } > grouping bar { > leaf feuille { > type int8; > } > } > uses foo { > refine "feuillage/feuille" { > default 64; > } > } > } _______________________________________________ netmod mailing list netmod@ietf.org https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/netmod From netmod-bounces@ietf.org Mon Jan 26 12:39:32 2009 Return-Path: X-Original-To: netmod-archive@ietf.org Delivered-To: ietfarch-netmod-archive@core3.amsl.com Received: from [127.0.0.1] (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id A1E293A67E4; Mon, 26 Jan 2009 12:39:32 -0800 (PST) X-Original-To: netmod@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: netmod@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 591883A6A7B for ; Mon, 26 Jan 2009 12:39:31 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -0.127 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-0.127 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=-0.736, BAYES_20=-0.74, HELO_EQ_CZ=0.445, HOST_EQ_CZ=0.904] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id AU3GAxTqDv-e for ; Mon, 26 Jan 2009 12:39:30 -0800 (PST) Received: from office2.cesnet.cz (office2.cesnet.cz [195.113.144.244]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8BA523A67E4 for ; Mon, 26 Jan 2009 12:39:30 -0800 (PST) Received: from [172.29.2.201] (asus-gx.lhotka.cesnet.cz [195.113.161.161]) by office2.cesnet.cz (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8418DD800C0 for ; Mon, 26 Jan 2009 21:39:12 +0100 (CET) From: Ladislav Lhotka To: NETMOD Working Group Organization: CESNET Date: Mon, 26 Jan 2009 21:39:13 +0100 Message-Id: <1233002354.12696.15.camel@missotis> Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Evolution 2.22.3.1 Subject: [netmod] augment X-BeenThere: netmod@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.9 Precedence: list List-Id: NETMOD WG list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: netmod-bounces@ietf.org Errors-To: netmod-bounces@ietf.org Hi, if I understand the new draft -03 correctly, augment is now allowed only at (sub)module top level and inside uses-stmt. However: 1. augment remained in the tables of substatements (container, leaf, ...) 2. Sec. 7.15 says: The "augment" statement allows a module or submodule to add to the schema tree defined in another module or submodule. This omits the uses-augment-stmt case. I think the latter should really be renamed, so how about "amend"? Question: Can the target node for the top-level augment be inside a grouping in the foreign module? Lada -- Ladislav Lhotka, CESNET PGP Key ID: E74E8C0C _______________________________________________ netmod mailing list netmod@ietf.org https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/netmod From netmod-bounces@ietf.org Tue Jan 27 07:36:09 2009 Return-Path: X-Original-To: netmod-archive@ietf.org Delivered-To: ietfarch-netmod-archive@core3.amsl.com Received: from [127.0.0.1] (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 098573A6997; Tue, 27 Jan 2009 07:36:09 -0800 (PST) X-Original-To: netmod@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: netmod@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9BE3C3A6A53 for ; Tue, 27 Jan 2009 07:36:07 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: 0.255 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=0.255 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=-1.095, BAYES_50=0.001, HELO_EQ_CZ=0.445, HOST_EQ_CZ=0.904] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id eJUZYrZilcZ0 for ; Tue, 27 Jan 2009 07:36:07 -0800 (PST) Received: from office2.cesnet.cz (office2.cesnet.cz [195.113.144.244]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id E05AD3A6997 for ; Tue, 27 Jan 2009 07:36:06 -0800 (PST) Received: from [172.29.2.201] (asus-gx.lhotka.cesnet.cz [195.113.161.161]) by office2.cesnet.cz (Postfix) with ESMTP id 794E1D800C7 for ; Tue, 27 Jan 2009 16:35:48 +0100 (CET) From: Ladislav Lhotka To: NETMOD Working Group Organization: CESNET Date: Tue, 27 Jan 2009 16:35:48 +0100 Message-Id: <1233070548.6310.60.camel@missotis> Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Evolution 2.22.3.1 Subject: [netmod] modules and submodules - order of data X-BeenThere: netmod@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.9 Precedence: list List-Id: NETMOD WG list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: netmod-bounces@ietf.org Errors-To: netmod-bounces@ietf.org Hi, is it correct that the relative order of data tree contributions from the main module and included submodules is arbitrary? Lada -- Ladislav Lhotka, CESNET PGP Key ID: E74E8C0C _______________________________________________ netmod mailing list netmod@ietf.org https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/netmod From netmod-bounces@ietf.org Tue Jan 27 07:41:59 2009 Return-Path: X-Original-To: netmod-archive@ietf.org Delivered-To: ietfarch-netmod-archive@core3.amsl.com Received: from [127.0.0.1] (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 200913A6893; Tue, 27 Jan 2009 07:41:59 -0800 (PST) X-Original-To: netmod@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: netmod@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6BAC33A6AFE for ; Tue, 27 Jan 2009 07:41:57 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.202 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.202 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=0.063, BAYES_00=-2.599, IP_NOT_FRIENDLY=0.334] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id susKVjg+gpuD for ; Tue, 27 Jan 2009 07:41:56 -0800 (PST) Received: from smtp128.sbc.mail.sp1.yahoo.com (smtp128.sbc.mail.sp1.yahoo.com [69.147.65.187]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with SMTP id DD7873A6893 for ; Tue, 27 Jan 2009 07:41:56 -0800 (PST) Received: (qmail 75452 invoked from network); 27 Jan 2009 15:41:39 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO ?127.0.0.1?) (andy@68.120.68.233 with plain) by smtp128.sbc.mail.sp1.yahoo.com with SMTP; 27 Jan 2009 15:41:37 -0000 X-YMail-OSG: OzJqaM0VM1lnAgJGgtZ0OLPUxje2aI_mnWaiqr724lowPA_Pm24ICMRKA9orBTOGGXwr5wQ6f_3eHVJf4wa7XJP.lTI6gJS6s3AF59G.4aWmsI2VpnkmTuei23xeL4suIHgabS065ye5V.PUBmABQvQb X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: ymail-3 Message-ID: <497F2B30.1030503@netconfcentral.com> Date: Tue, 27 Jan 2009 07:41:36 -0800 From: Andy Bierman User-Agent: Thunderbird 2.0.0.19 (Windows/20081209) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Ladislav Lhotka References: <1233070548.6310.60.camel@missotis> In-Reply-To: <1233070548.6310.60.camel@missotis> Cc: NETMOD Working Group Subject: Re: [netmod] modules and submodules - order of data X-BeenThere: netmod@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.9 Precedence: list List-Id: NETMOD WG list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; Format="flowed" Sender: netmod-bounces@ietf.org Errors-To: netmod-bounces@ietf.org Ladislav Lhotka wrote: > Hi, > > is it correct that the relative order of data tree contributions from > the main module and included submodules is arbitrary? > IMO, yes, because includes can be nested. > Lada > Andy _______________________________________________ netmod mailing list netmod@ietf.org https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/netmod From netmod-bounces@ietf.org Tue Jan 27 08:11:36 2009 Return-Path: X-Original-To: netmod-archive@ietf.org Delivered-To: ietfarch-netmod-archive@core3.amsl.com Received: from [127.0.0.1] (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id B66463A6924; Tue, 27 Jan 2009 08:11:36 -0800 (PST) X-Original-To: netmod@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: netmod@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 959A23A69EE for ; Tue, 27 Jan 2009 08:11:35 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.028 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.028 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=0.222, BAYES_00=-2.599, HELO_EQ_CZ=0.445, HOST_EQ_CZ=0.904] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id ZWkM7FiKZTx3 for ; Tue, 27 Jan 2009 08:11:34 -0800 (PST) Received: from office2.cesnet.cz (office2.cesnet.cz [195.113.144.244]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6262B3A6924 for ; Tue, 27 Jan 2009 08:11:34 -0800 (PST) Received: from [172.29.2.201] (asus-gx.lhotka.cesnet.cz [195.113.161.161]) by office2.cesnet.cz (Postfix) with ESMTP id 749BAD800C5; Tue, 27 Jan 2009 17:11:16 +0100 (CET) From: Ladislav Lhotka To: Andy Bierman In-Reply-To: <497F2B30.1030503@netconfcentral.com> References: <1233070548.6310.60.camel@missotis> <497F2B30.1030503@netconfcentral.com> Organization: CESNET Date: Tue, 27 Jan 2009 17:11:16 +0100 Message-Id: <1233072676.6310.78.camel@missotis> Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Evolution 2.22.3.1 Cc: NETMOD Working Group Subject: Re: [netmod] modules and submodules - order of data X-BeenThere: netmod@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.9 Precedence: list List-Id: NETMOD WG list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 Sender: netmod-bounces@ietf.org Errors-To: netmod-bounces@ietf.org QW5keSBCaWVybWFuIHDDrcWhZSB2IMOadCAyNy4gMDEuIDIwMDkgdiAwNzo0MSAtMDgwMDoKPiBM YWRpc2xhdiBMaG90a2Egd3JvdGU6Cj4gPiBIaSwKPiA+IAo+ID4gaXMgaXQgY29ycmVjdCB0aGF0 IHRoZSByZWxhdGl2ZSBvcmRlciBvZiBkYXRhIHRyZWUgY29udHJpYnV0aW9ucyBmcm9tCj4gPiB0 aGUgbWFpbiBtb2R1bGUgYW5kIGluY2x1ZGVkIHN1Ym1vZHVsZXMgaXMgYXJiaXRyYXJ5Pwo+ID4g Cj4gCj4gSU1PLCB5ZXMsIGJlY2F1c2UgaW5jbHVkZXMgY2FuIGJlIG5lc3RlZC4KCkkgdGhpbmsg aXQgaXMgbmVjZXNzYXJ5IHRvIGFsbG93IGFyYml0cmFyeSBvcmRlciBmb3IgdHJlZXMgYXBwZWFy aW5nIGluCnRoZSBzYW1lIChzdWIpbW9kdWxlIGFzIHdlbGwsIHNpbmNlIG90aGVyd2lzZSByZWZh Y3RvcmluZyBhIG1vZHVsZSBpbnRvCnN1Ym1vZHVsZXMgd291bGQgYmUgaW1wb3NzaWJsZToKCm1v ZHVsZSBteS1tb2R1bGUgewogIGNvbnRhaW5lciBmb28gewogICAgLi4uCiAgfQogIGNvbnRhaW5l ciBiYXIgewogICAgLi4uCiAgfQp9CgpkZWZpbmVzIGEgZGlmZmVyZW50IHNjaGVtYSB0aGFuCgpt b2R1bGUgbXktbW9kdWxlIHsKICBpbmNsdWRlIG15LXN1Ym1vZHVsZTsKICBjb250YWluZXIgYmFy IHsKICAgIC4uLgogIH0KfQoKbW9kdWxlIG15LXN1Ym1vZHVsZSB7CiAgY29udGFpbmVyIGZvbyB7 CiAgICAuLi4KICB9Cn0KCkxhZGEKCj4gCj4gPiBMYWRhCj4gPiAKPiAKPiBBbmR5Cj4gCi0tIApM YWRpc2xhdiBMaG90a2EsIENFU05FVApQR1AgS2V5IElEOiBFNzRFOEMwQwoKX19fX19fX19fX19f X19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX18KbmV0bW9kIG1haWxpbmcgbGlzdApu ZXRtb2RAaWV0Zi5vcmcKaHR0cHM6Ly93d3cuaWV0Zi5vcmcvbWFpbG1hbi9saXN0aW5mby9uZXRt b2QK From netmod-bounces@ietf.org Sat Jan 31 10:56:01 2009 Return-Path: X-Original-To: netmod-archive@ietf.org Delivered-To: ietfarch-netmod-archive@core3.amsl.com Received: from [127.0.0.1] (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6E4F23A6805; Sat, 31 Jan 2009 10:56:01 -0800 (PST) X-Original-To: netmod@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: netmod@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 808FF3A68BD for ; Sat, 31 Jan 2009 10:56:00 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.206 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.206 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=0.059, BAYES_00=-2.599, IP_NOT_FRIENDLY=0.334] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id aAmqPQle+DBX for ; Sat, 31 Jan 2009 10:55:59 -0800 (PST) Received: from smtp127.sbc.mail.sp1.yahoo.com (smtp127.sbc.mail.sp1.yahoo.com [69.147.65.186]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with SMTP id AD5EC3A6805 for ; Sat, 31 Jan 2009 10:55:59 -0800 (PST) Received: (qmail 98051 invoked from network); 31 Jan 2009 18:55:40 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO ?127.0.0.1?) (andy@67.127.164.237 with plain) by smtp127.sbc.mail.sp1.yahoo.com with SMTP; 31 Jan 2009 18:55:38 -0000 X-YMail-OSG: 66w5diYVM1lpuQWmRQ1NL5CqPAEj1P4QNJrdW267NojR3Un7aqAjFA1_UoZQMn_6ljzKtvJLSEeIts4N88YfiYqbG.8rlF3EDJOshj2GwXNaQewuOYnyUOPF9kPYHO0lwYxltgCcR6TvNYz4fbCiKyXp X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: ymail-3 Message-ID: <49849EA9.5090908@netconfcentral.com> Date: Sat, 31 Jan 2009 10:55:37 -0800 From: Andy Bierman User-Agent: Thunderbird 2.0.0.19 (Windows/20081209) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: NETMOD Working Group Subject: [netmod] yang-03, import/include by-revision X-BeenThere: netmod@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.9 Precedence: list List-Id: NETMOD WG list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; Format="flowed" Sender: netmod-bounces@ietf.org Errors-To: netmod-bounces@ietf.org Hi, This section on File Format is a normative section: 5.2. File Layout YANG modules and submodules are typically stored in files, one module or submodule per file, with the name of the file on the form: module-or-submodule-name ['.' revision-number] ( '.yang' / '.yin' ) YANG compilers can find imported modules and included submodules via this convention. While the YANG language defines modules, tools may compile submodules independently for performance and manageability reasons. Many errors and warnings that cannot be detected during submodule compilation may be delayed until the submodules are linked into a cohesive module. Issue 1) A normative deterministic mechanism within YANG file to determine revision is needed (already brought up on list). Issue 2) YANG compilers 'can' find... ? This needs to be MUST/SHOULD/MAY language. Issue 3) The '.' char is allowed in module-or-submodule-name, so it should not be used as a separator in this file format. Some operating systems may not like multiple '.' chars in the filename either. Maybe underscore '_' would be better. Issue 4) There is no field anywhere in YANG called 'revision-number'. This should be called 'revision-date'. Issue 5) The revision is optional in the file format, so I am not sure what value it has at all. Does that mean there is no revision, or does it mean the user just felt like leaving it out? Issue 6) The file format suggests that '.tin' files are input files, but they are only defined as output files in the draft. (Let's leave it that way.) I prefer to have 1 input format. YANG modules are store in YANG files, which SHOULD (MAY?) be named with the '.yang' extension. import-stmt = import-keyword sep identifier-arg-str optsep "{" stmtsep prefix-stmt stmtsep [revision-stmt stmtsep] "}" Issue 7) Why is the full revision-stmt needed in the import-stmt and include-stmt? If the description-stmt is really so important here (IMO no) then it should be a sub-statement of 'import' or 'include' directly, not a sub-stmt of 'revision'. I prefer this ABNF instead (without a description-stmt): import-stmt = import-keyword sep identifier-arg-str optsep "{" stmtsep prefix-stmt stmtsep [revision-keyword sep date-arg-str stmtsep] "}" Sec 7.1.5, para 3: When the optional "revision" is present, any typedef, grouping, extension, feature, and identity referenced by definitions in the local module are taken from the specified revision of the imported module. Issue 8: The phrase 'specified revision' needs clarification: - exact match of the highest value date-arg-str in a revision-stmt in the imported module (or included submodule) - missing revision SHOULD select the most recent, if the imported module (or included submodule) has revision-stmt(s) - missing revision MAY select any revision, if the imported module (or included submodule) does not have any revision-stmts Andy _______________________________________________ netmod mailing list netmod@ietf.org https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/netmod From netmod-bounces@ietf.org Sat Jan 31 12:05:34 2009 Return-Path: X-Original-To: netmod-archive@ietf.org Delivered-To: ietfarch-netmod-archive@core3.amsl.com Received: from [127.0.0.1] (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4305F3A693C; Sat, 31 Jan 2009 12:05:34 -0800 (PST) X-Original-To: netmod@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: netmod@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id DBAA33A693C for ; Sat, 31 Jan 2009 12:05:33 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.01 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.01 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=0.036, BAYES_00=-2.599, HELO_MISMATCH_COM=0.553] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id ikPMqwTdpvvo for ; Sat, 31 Jan 2009 12:05:33 -0800 (PST) Received: from mail.tail-f.com (de-0316.d.ipeer.se [213.180.79.212]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id C33B53A6927 for ; Sat, 31 Jan 2009 12:05:32 -0800 (PST) Received: from localhost (c213-100-167-236.swipnet.se [213.100.167.236]) by mail.tail-f.com (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 7739976C32E; Sat, 31 Jan 2009 21:05:12 +0100 (CET) Date: Sat, 31 Jan 2009 21:05:12 +0100 (CET) Message-Id: <20090131.210512.120353109.mbj@tail-f.com> To: andy@netconfcentral.com From: Martin Bjorklund In-Reply-To: <49849EA9.5090908@netconfcentral.com> References: <49849EA9.5090908@netconfcentral.com> X-Mailer: Mew version 6.0.51 on Emacs 22.2 / Mule 5.0 (SAKAKI) Mime-Version: 1.0 Cc: netmod@ietf.org Subject: Re: [netmod] yang-03, import/include by-revision X-BeenThere: netmod@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.9 Precedence: list List-Id: NETMOD WG list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: netmod-bounces@ietf.org Errors-To: netmod-bounces@ietf.org Andy Bierman wrote: > Hi, > > This section on File Format is a normative section: > > 5.2. File Layout > > YANG modules and submodules are typically stored in files, one module > or submodule per file, with the name of the file on the form: > > module-or-submodule-name ['.' revision-number] ( '.yang' / '.yin' ) > > YANG compilers can find imported modules and included submodules via > this convention. While the YANG language defines modules, tools may > compile submodules independently for performance and manageability > reasons. Many errors and warnings that cannot be detected during > submodule compilation may be delayed until the submodules are linked > into a cohesive module. > > > Issue 1) A normative deterministic mechanism within YANG file > to determine revision is needed (already brought up on list). Ok. > Issue 2) YANG compilers 'can' find... ? > This needs to be MUST/SHOULD/MAY language. I suggest SHOULD. > Issue 3) The '.' char is allowed in module-or-submodule-name, > so it should not be used as a separator in this file format. > Some operating systems may not like multiple '.' chars > in the filename either. Maybe underscore '_' would be better. And some OSs use 8+3 filenames. I suggest changing the first '.' to '_'. > Issue 4) There is no field anywhere in YANG called 'revision-number'. > This should be called 'revision-date'. Ok. > Issue 5) The revision is optional in the file format, so I am not > sure what value it has at all. Does that mean there > is no revision, or does it mean the user just felt > like leaving it out? Both, but maybe we should be more restrictive, i.e. say that if the module has a revision stmt, then the filename SHOULD include the latest revision date? > Issue 6) The file format suggests that '.tin' files are input files, > but they are only defined as output files in the draft. > (Let's leave it that way.) That was never the intention. Some users (I know one in this WG) will write YIN natively. This is perfectly legal. Your ietf guidelines draft should probably require the YANG format though. > Issue 7) Why is the full revision-stmt needed in the import-stmt > and include-stmt? If the description-stmt is really so > important here (IMO no) then it should be a sub-statement > of 'import' or 'include' directly, not a sub-stmt of 'revision'. > I prefer this ABNF instead (without a description-stmt): > > import-stmt = import-keyword sep identifier-arg-str optsep > "{" stmtsep > prefix-stmt stmtsep > [revision-keyword sep date-arg-str stmtsep] > "}" I agree. This was a bug. > Issue 8: > The phrase 'specified revision' needs clarification: > - exact match of the highest value date-arg-str in a > revision-stmt in the imported module (or included submodule) > - missing revision SHOULD select the most recent, if the > imported module (or included submodule) has revision-stmt(s) > - missing revision MAY select any revision, if the > imported module (or included submodule) does not have any > revision-stmts Ok. /martin _______________________________________________ netmod mailing list netmod@ietf.org https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/netmod From netmod-bounces@ietf.org Sat Jan 31 12:20:57 2009 Return-Path: X-Original-To: netmod-archive@ietf.org Delivered-To: ietfarch-netmod-archive@core3.amsl.com Received: from [127.0.0.1] (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 896BA3A684F; Sat, 31 Jan 2009 12:20:57 -0800 (PST) X-Original-To: netmod@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: netmod@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 023A93A688E for ; Sat, 31 Jan 2009 12:20:56 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.207 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.207 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=0.058, BAYES_00=-2.599, IP_NOT_FRIENDLY=0.334] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 836HwHfQKCE5 for ; Sat, 31 Jan 2009 12:20:54 -0800 (PST) Received: from smtp124.sbc.mail.sp1.yahoo.com (smtp124.sbc.mail.sp1.yahoo.com [69.147.64.97]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with SMTP id 741243A684F for ; Sat, 31 Jan 2009 12:20:54 -0800 (PST) Received: (qmail 47629 invoked from network); 31 Jan 2009 20:20:36 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO ?127.0.0.1?) (andy@67.127.164.237 with plain) by smtp124.sbc.mail.sp1.yahoo.com with SMTP; 31 Jan 2009 20:20:34 -0000 X-YMail-OSG: Qid1CAEVM1mBKKjhwT2DqWEf.kyD5IHG01YcY71Iw89AwtnSu7_G34XTCIt47j4NMprCf0gsy4TybLQlXbkxi1VkCM9hmZw4i16LiNM4KdDbqKeyfqW05QJMjnqkvwHNkjaH3dq.i3qyc.FoOfAl60PKbEYf1S3CbP9oDEPzdYlBmGH5neDKaAw8WjSZOop7JIS9wueWcJZzJmJSPOIUcg-- X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: ymail-3 Message-ID: <4984B290.3080706@netconfcentral.com> Date: Sat, 31 Jan 2009 12:20:32 -0800 From: Andy Bierman User-Agent: Thunderbird 2.0.0.19 (Windows/20081209) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Martin Bjorklund References: <49849EA9.5090908@netconfcentral.com> <20090131.210512.120353109.mbj@tail-f.com> In-Reply-To: <20090131.210512.120353109.mbj@tail-f.com> Cc: netmod@ietf.org Subject: Re: [netmod] yang-03, import/include by-revision X-BeenThere: netmod@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.9 Precedence: list List-Id: NETMOD WG list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; Format="flowed" Sender: netmod-bounces@ietf.org Errors-To: netmod-bounces@ietf.org Martin Bjorklund wrote: > Andy Bierman wrote: >> Hi, >>] all OK but 4 and 5 (inline) >> This section on File Format is a normative section: >> >> 5.2. File Layout >> >> YANG modules and submodules are typically stored in files, one module >> or submodule per file, with the name of the file on the form: >> >> module-or-submodule-name ['.' revision-number] ( '.yang' / '.yin' ) >> >> YANG compilers can find imported modules and included submodules via >> this convention. While the YANG language defines modules, tools may >> compile submodules independently for performance and manageability >> reasons. Many errors and warnings that cannot be detected during >> submodule compilation may be delayed until the submodules are linked >> into a cohesive module. >> >> >> Issue 1) A normative deterministic mechanism within YANG file >> to determine revision is needed (already brought up on list). > > Ok. > >> Issue 2) YANG compilers 'can' find... ? >> This needs to be MUST/SHOULD/MAY language. > > I suggest SHOULD. > >> Issue 3) The '.' char is allowed in module-or-submodule-name, >> so it should not be used as a separator in this file format. >> Some operating systems may not like multiple '.' chars >> in the filename either. Maybe underscore '_' would be better. > > And some OSs use 8+3 filenames. I suggest changing the first '.' to '_'. > >> Issue 4) There is no field anywhere in YANG called 'revision-number'. >> This should be called 'revision-date'. > > Ok. > there is no revision-date either in the ABNF, so I suggest creating a definition somewhere: revision-date = date-arg-str The text about revision-stmt, highest-valued instance, etc. is needed here. >> Issue 5) The revision is optional in the file format, so I am not >> sure what value it has at all. Does that mean there >> is no revision, or does it mean the user just felt >> like leaving it out? > > Both, but maybe we should be more restrictive, i.e. say that if the > module has a revision stmt, then the filename SHOULD include the > latest revision date? > case 1) import A { prefix a; revision X; } - if A has no revision X, then the import MUST fail (no module used for A) - A is considered 'revision X' if and only if its highest valued revision-date is X. - A has no revision if it has no revision-stmts. Any import of A requresting a specific version MUST fail case 2) import A ( prefix a; } - if A has revision-stmts (in each instance) then the instance with the highest valued revision-date SHOULD be used - if A does not have revision-stmts (in each instance) then it is implementation-specific which instance of module A is used >> Issue 6) The file format suggests that '.tin' files are input files, >> but they are only defined as output files in the draft. >> (Let's leave it that way.) > > That was never the intention. Some users (I know one in this WG) will > write YIN natively. This is perfectly legal. Your ietf guidelines > draft should probably require the YANG format though. > >> Issue 7) Why is the full revision-stmt needed in the import-stmt >> and include-stmt? If the description-stmt is really so >> important here (IMO no) then it should be a sub-statement >> of 'import' or 'include' directly, not a sub-stmt of 'revision'. >> I prefer this ABNF instead (without a description-stmt): >> >> import-stmt = import-keyword sep identifier-arg-str optsep >> "{" stmtsep >> prefix-stmt stmtsep >> [revision-keyword sep date-arg-str stmtsep] >> "}" > > I agree. This was a bug. > >> Issue 8: >> The phrase 'specified revision' needs clarification: >> - exact match of the highest value date-arg-str in a >> revision-stmt in the imported module (or included submodule) >> - missing revision SHOULD select the most recent, if the >> imported module (or included submodule) has revision-stmt(s) >> - missing revision MAY select any revision, if the >> imported module (or included submodule) does not have any >> revision-stmts > > Ok. > > > /martin > > > Andy _______________________________________________ netmod mailing list netmod@ietf.org https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/netmod From netmod-bounces@ietf.org Sat Jan 31 13:46:38 2009 Return-Path: X-Original-To: netmod-archive@ietf.org Delivered-To: ietfarch-netmod-archive@core3.amsl.com Received: from [127.0.0.1] (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0C1323A682D; Sat, 31 Jan 2009 13:46:38 -0800 (PST) X-Original-To: netmod@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: netmod@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id E2F453A6A06 for ; Sat, 31 Jan 2009 13:46:36 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.208 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.208 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=0.057, BAYES_00=-2.599, IP_NOT_FRIENDLY=0.334] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id gTXpJx8S1AsB for ; Sat, 31 Jan 2009 13:46:36 -0800 (PST) Received: from smtp122.sbc.mail.sp1.yahoo.com (smtp122.sbc.mail.sp1.yahoo.com [69.147.64.95]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with SMTP id 21E573A682D for ; Sat, 31 Jan 2009 13:46:35 -0800 (PST) Received: (qmail 1612 invoked from network); 31 Jan 2009 21:46:17 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO ?127.0.0.1?) (andy@67.127.164.237 with plain) by smtp122.sbc.mail.sp1.yahoo.com with SMTP; 31 Jan 2009 21:46:16 -0000 X-YMail-OSG: GYMiow0VM1kFcOUcOy9QUgxKhMyidOUv3bjRAh7JaPCCNgTIF8BgxVFZ3sbMJ1zHgM_1l98mWhfNUyJHdeN.zLVhcqoQHLClk6XOel1duvBhAlwtlM6g3nuHyJBZF4tUchUl5U0NCjGEu_kcJ8vAanKJ X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: ymail-3 Message-ID: <4984C6A6.6030904@netconfcentral.com> Date: Sat, 31 Jan 2009 13:46:14 -0800 From: Andy Bierman User-Agent: Thunderbird 2.0.0.19 (Windows/20081209) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: NETMOD Working Group , Ladislav Lhotka Subject: [netmod] 2 more data types (!) X-BeenThere: netmod@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.9 Precedence: list List-Id: NETMOD WG list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; Format="flowed" Sender: netmod-bounces@ietf.org Errors-To: netmod-bounces@ietf.org Hi, I know this would be a significant change, so it is OK if we handle it with extensions until later. 1) qname 2) xpath Both of these data types are special because of their content: 1) the manager must provide xmlns decls for the YANG prefixes 2) the agent must match xmlns decls to YANG namespaces The data type 'instance-identifier' is already covered, but it would be on this special list as well. I guess (1) shows up more frequently then (2). I just allow an extension anywhere in the type-stmt 'ncx:xpath' to indicate a typedef or leaf/leaf-list needs to be checked as an XPath expression. I also use a hack to check the content of every input XML string to see if it looks like a QName. If so, the XML prefix is resolved right then. I would still do this rather than trying to tie XML input to schema validation at that point, but a qname data type would allow schema validation later on. We already have a super-constrained QName, called identityref. Is it worth it to have a generic version to match the QName definition from XSD as well? These seem to be pretty important XML details to leave out. They should be considered first, then left out :-) Andy _______________________________________________ netmod mailing list netmod@ietf.org https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/netmod From netmod-bounces@ietf.org Sat Jan 31 14:58:36 2009 Return-Path: X-Original-To: netmod-archive@ietf.org Delivered-To: ietfarch-netmod-archive@core3.amsl.com Received: from [127.0.0.1] (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 05AC43A6844; Sat, 31 Jan 2009 14:58:36 -0800 (PST) X-Original-To: netmod@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: netmod@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 541DB3A6844 for ; Sat, 31 Jan 2009 14:58:35 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.209 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.209 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=0.056, BAYES_00=-2.599, IP_NOT_FRIENDLY=0.334] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id HlUOU+XChwBC for ; Sat, 31 Jan 2009 14:58:34 -0800 (PST) Received: from smtp116.sbc.mail.sp1.yahoo.com (smtp116.sbc.mail.sp1.yahoo.com [69.147.64.89]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with SMTP id 7B7923A67D1 for ; Sat, 31 Jan 2009 14:58:34 -0800 (PST) Received: (qmail 53265 invoked from network); 31 Jan 2009 22:58:15 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO ?127.0.0.1?) (andy@67.127.164.237 with plain) by smtp116.sbc.mail.sp1.yahoo.com with SMTP; 31 Jan 2009 22:58:14 -0000 X-YMail-OSG: dutBbioVM1lsySAJAI65__GRM_FIXh.qVOaUxm8_q7n4jY8uh5ErSfbMJ3aG2G0KtqnySUWzFoe1wHRiFgJ_AqMRn0RvVSQmo5vueCvzQBgKbZiLqatNac1Nn.M32lMdBXtsctwIYLZWoeN2MoYCWh9s X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: ymail-3 Message-ID: <4984D784.1090106@netconfcentral.com> Date: Sat, 31 Jan 2009 14:58:12 -0800 From: Andy Bierman User-Agent: Thunderbird 2.0.0.19 (Windows/20081209) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: NETMOD Working Group Subject: [netmod] require-instance bug X-BeenThere: netmod@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.9 Precedence: list List-Id: NETMOD WG list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; Format="flowed" Sender: netmod-bounces@ietf.org Errors-To: netmod-bounces@ietf.org Hi, The revision notes do not show that the 'require-instance' sub-statement was added to leafref and instance-identifier. The normative sections are updated correctly, but the ABNF for identityref (not instance-identifier) got changed by mistake. The leafref ABNF looks OK. Andy _______________________________________________ netmod mailing list netmod@ietf.org https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/netmod From netmod-bounces@ietf.org Sat Jan 31 18:30:10 2009 Return-Path: X-Original-To: netmod-archive@ietf.org Delivered-To: ietfarch-netmod-archive@core3.amsl.com Received: from [127.0.0.1] (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7E6D63A6A8D; Sat, 31 Jan 2009 18:30:10 -0800 (PST) X-Original-To: netmod@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: netmod@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8D8B83A68BB for ; Sat, 31 Jan 2009 18:30:08 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.404 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.404 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=0.195, BAYES_00=-2.599] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id Ikx4DdVJYHFb for ; Sat, 31 Jan 2009 18:30:07 -0800 (PST) Received: from mta1.huaweisymantec.com (mta1.huaweisymantec.com [121.15.168.142]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9B2823A6A8D for ; Sat, 31 Jan 2009 18:30:07 -0800 (PST) MIME-version: 1.0 Content-disposition: inline Received: from hstml01-in.huaweisymantec.com ([172.26.3.41]) by hstga01-in.huaweisymantec.com (Sun Java(tm) System Messaging Server 6.3-5.02 (built Oct 12 2007; 32bit)) with ESMTP id <0KED00F0O89JC210@hstga01-in.huaweisymantec.com> for netmod@ietf.org; Sun, 01 Feb 2009 10:29:45 +0800 (CST) Received: from huaweisymantec.com ([127.0.0.1]) by hstml01-in.huaweisymantec.com (Sun Java(tm) System Messaging Server 6.3-5.02 (built Oct 12 2007; 32bit)) with ESMTP id <0KED0031B89H1F00@hstml01-in.huaweisymantec.com> for netmod@ietf.org; Sun, 01 Feb 2009 10:29:43 +0800 (CST) Received: from [10.27.141.6] by hstml01-in.huaweisymantec.com (mshttpd); Sun, 01 Feb 2009 10:29:41 +0800 From: WashamFan To: Ladislav Lhotka Message-id: Date: Sun, 01 Feb 2009 10:29:41 +0800 X-Mailer: Sun Java(tm) System Messenger Express 6.3-5.02 (built Oct 12 2007; 32bit) Content-language: zh-CN X-Accept-Language: zh-CN Priority: normal In-reply-to: <1233072676.6310.78.camel@missotis> References: <1233070548.6310.60.camel@missotis> <497F2B30.1030503@netconfcentral.com> <1233072676.6310.78.camel@missotis> Cc: NETMOD Working Group Subject: Re: [netmod] modules and submodules - order of data X-BeenThere: netmod@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.9 Precedence: list List-Id: NETMOD WG list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-15" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Sender: netmod-bounces@ietf.org Errors-To: netmod-bounces@ietf.org > Andy Bierman p=ED=A8e v =DAt 27. 01. 2009 v 07:41 -0800: > > Ladislav Lhotka wrote: > > > Hi, > > > = > > > is it correct that the relative order of data tree contributions = > from > > > the main module and included submodules is arbitrary? > > > = > > = > > IMO, yes, because includes can be nested. > = > I think it is necessary to allow arbitrary order for trees appearing = > in > the same (sub)module as well, since otherwise refactoring a module into > submodules would be impossible: Yes. The compiling result modules of below two should be equalivent semanti= cally. washam > module my-module { > container foo { > ... > } > container bar { > ... > } > } > = > defines a different schema than > = > module my-module { > include my-submodule; > container bar { > ... > } > } > = > module my-submodule { > container foo { > ... > } > } > = > Lada > = > > = > > > Lada > > > = > > = > > Andy > > = > -- = > Ladislav Lhotka, CESNET > PGP Key ID: E74E8C0C > = > _______________________________________________ > netmod mailing list > netmod@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/netmod > = _______________________________________________ netmod mailing list netmod@ietf.org https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/netmod From netmod-bounces@ietf.org Sat Jan 31 18:49:48 2009 Return-Path: X-Original-To: netmod-archive@ietf.org Delivered-To: ietfarch-netmod-archive@core3.amsl.com Received: from [127.0.0.1] (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 079803A677C; Sat, 31 Jan 2009 18:49:48 -0800 (PST) X-Original-To: netmod@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: netmod@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id B02733A68BB for ; Sat, 31 Jan 2009 18:49:46 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.418 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.418 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=0.181, BAYES_00=-2.599] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id MDH+tQ+D8DW0 for ; Sat, 31 Jan 2009 18:49:46 -0800 (PST) Received: from mta1.huaweisymantec.com (mta1.huaweisymantec.com [121.15.168.142]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id D8F973A677C for ; Sat, 31 Jan 2009 18:49:45 -0800 (PST) MIME-version: 1.0 Content-disposition: inline Received: from hstml01-in.huaweisymantec.com ([172.26.3.41]) by hstga01-in.huaweisymantec.com (Sun Java(tm) System Messaging Server 6.3-5.02 (built Oct 12 2007; 32bit)) with ESMTP id <0KED00FE596BC210@hstga01-in.huaweisymantec.com> for netmod@ietf.org; Sun, 01 Feb 2009 10:49:25 +0800 (CST) Received: from huaweisymantec.com ([127.0.0.1]) by hstml01-in.huaweisymantec.com (Sun Java(tm) System Messaging Server 6.3-5.02 (built Oct 12 2007; 32bit)) with ESMTP id <0KED0041V969BW00@hstml01-in.huaweisymantec.com> for netmod@ietf.org; Sun, 01 Feb 2009 10:49:23 +0800 (CST) Received: from [10.27.141.6] by hstml01-in.huaweisymantec.com (mshttpd); Sun, 01 Feb 2009 10:49:21 +0800 From: WashamFan To: Andy Bierman Message-id: Date: Sun, 01 Feb 2009 10:49:21 +0800 X-Mailer: Sun Java(tm) System Messenger Express 6.3-5.02 (built Oct 12 2007; 32bit) Content-language: zh-CN X-Accept-Language: zh-CN Priority: normal In-reply-to: <4984B290.3080706@netconfcentral.com> References: <49849EA9.5090908@netconfcentral.com> <20090131.210512.120353109.mbj@tail-f.com> <4984B290.3080706@netconfcentral.com> Cc: netmod@ietf.org Subject: Re: [netmod] yang-03, import/include by-revision X-BeenThere: netmod@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.9 Precedence: list List-Id: NETMOD WG list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: netmod-bounces@ietf.org Errors-To: netmod-bounces@ietf.org Hi, > >> Issue 5) The revision is optional in the file format, so I am not > >> sure what value it has at all. Does that mean there > >> is no revision, or does it mean the user just felt > >> like leaving it out? > > > > Both, but maybe we should be more restrictive, i.e. say that if the > > module has a revision stmt, then the filename SHOULD include the > > latest revision date? > > > > case 1) > > import A { prefix a; revision X; } > > - if A has no revision X, then the import MUST fail > (no module used for A) > - A is considered 'revision X' if and only if its highest valued > revision-date is X. I got a little confused. X is nonsense if it does not equal highest valued revision-date, i.e, we should always import the most recent module. So Why should we need 'revision X' in the statement? washam > - A has no revision if it has no revision-stmts. > Any import of A requresting a specific version MUST fail > > case 2) > > import A ( prefix a; } > > - if A has revision-stmts (in each instance) > then the instance with the highest valued revision-date > SHOULD be used > > - if A does not have revision-stmts (in each instance) > then it is implementation-specific which instance > of module A is used _______________________________________________ netmod mailing list netmod@ietf.org https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/netmod From netmod-bounces@ietf.org Sat Jan 31 20:10:19 2009 Return-Path: X-Original-To: netmod-archive@ietf.org Delivered-To: ietfarch-netmod-archive@core3.amsl.com Received: from [127.0.0.1] (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7D1843A6B53; Sat, 31 Jan 2009 20:10:19 -0800 (PST) X-Original-To: netmod@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: netmod@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9AD733A6B56 for ; Sat, 31 Jan 2009 20:10:17 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.43 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.43 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=0.169, BAYES_00=-2.599] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id AgKxetR5tFj3 for ; Sat, 31 Jan 2009 20:10:16 -0800 (PST) Received: from mta1.huaweisymantec.com (mta1.huaweisymantec.com [121.15.168.142]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 88CCF3A6B53 for ; Sat, 31 Jan 2009 20:10:16 -0800 (PST) MIME-version: 1.0 Content-disposition: inline Received: from hstml01-in.huaweisymantec.com ([172.26.3.41]) by hstga01-in.huaweisymantec.com (Sun Java(tm) System Messaging Server 6.3-5.02 (built Oct 12 2007; 32bit)) with ESMTP id <0KED00F21CWIC220@hstga01-in.huaweisymantec.com> for netmod@ietf.org; Sun, 01 Feb 2009 12:09:56 +0800 (CST) Received: from huaweisymantec.com ([127.0.0.1]) by hstml01-in.huaweisymantec.com (Sun Java(tm) System Messaging Server 6.3-5.02 (built Oct 12 2007; 32bit)) with ESMTP id <0KED0037DCWGK400@hstml01-in.huaweisymantec.com> for netmod@ietf.org; Sun, 01 Feb 2009 12:09:54 +0800 (CST) Received: from [10.27.141.6] by hstml01-in.huaweisymantec.com (mshttpd); Sun, 01 Feb 2009 12:09:52 +0800 From: WashamFan To: Andy Bierman Message-id: Date: Sun, 01 Feb 2009 12:09:52 +0800 X-Mailer: Sun Java(tm) System Messenger Express 6.3-5.02 (built Oct 12 2007; 32bit) Content-language: zh-CN X-Accept-Language: zh-CN Priority: normal In-reply-to: <4984D784.1090106@netconfcentral.com> References: <4984D784.1090106@netconfcentral.com> Cc: NETMOD Working Group Subject: Re: [netmod] require-instance bug X-BeenThere: netmod@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.9 Precedence: list List-Id: NETMOD WG list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: netmod-bounces@ietf.org Errors-To: netmod-bounces@ietf.org Hi, from last part of sec 9.9.6: The following notification defines two leafrefs to refer to an existing ifIndex: notification link-failure { leaf if-name { path "/interfaces/interface/name"; } leaf index { path "/interfaces/interface[name = current()/../if-name]" + "/ifIndex"; } } Washam: Seems "type leafdef{ ... }" was omitted. An example of a corresponding XML notification: 2008-04-01T00:01:00Z eth0 2 Washam: I suggest adding referred data tree for complete. washam > > The revision notes do not show that the 'require-instance' > sub-statement was added to leafref and instance-identifier. > The normative sections are updated correctly, but the > ABNF for identityref (not instance-identifier) got > changed by mistake. The leafref ABNF looks OK. > > > Andy > > _______________________________________________ > netmod mailing list > netmod@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/netmod > _______________________________________________ netmod mailing list netmod@ietf.org https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/netmod From netmod-bounces@ietf.org Sat Jan 31 22:25:51 2009 Return-Path: X-Original-To: netmod-archive@ietf.org Delivered-To: ietfarch-netmod-archive@core3.amsl.com Received: from [127.0.0.1] (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 86A373A6944; Sat, 31 Jan 2009 22:25:51 -0800 (PST) X-Original-To: netmod@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: netmod@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6FE4E3A6990 for ; Sat, 31 Jan 2009 22:25:50 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.21 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.21 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=0.055, BAYES_00=-2.599, IP_NOT_FRIENDLY=0.334] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 4Jwbn0D5Huam for ; Sat, 31 Jan 2009 22:25:49 -0800 (PST) Received: from smtp121.sbc.mail.sp1.yahoo.com (smtp121.sbc.mail.sp1.yahoo.com [69.147.64.94]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with SMTP id A77543A6944 for ; Sat, 31 Jan 2009 22:25:49 -0800 (PST) Received: (qmail 81923 invoked from network); 1 Feb 2009 06:25:30 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO ?127.0.0.1?) (andy@67.127.164.237 with plain) by smtp121.sbc.mail.sp1.yahoo.com with SMTP; 1 Feb 2009 06:25:28 -0000 X-YMail-OSG: ZK8ZkKMVM1kKNvA7L1Q4AQm9tQE.HQOWfF2m5ANJNazVXprInausb5a.t77fqLqB_7jSUxhNCoUmUMl3KYFCgC4Jhar3a0K3qtyo7cFwJRdDT_5TDg1BfJnukRrYuVMHtUQINCNI1i5tFIWHfGRcD1be X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: ymail-3 Message-ID: <49854056.2070208@netconfcentral.com> Date: Sat, 31 Jan 2009 22:25:26 -0800 From: Andy Bierman User-Agent: Thunderbird 2.0.0.19 (Windows/20081209) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: WashamFan References: <49849EA9.5090908@netconfcentral.com> <20090131.210512.120353109.mbj@tail-f.com> <4984B290.3080706@netconfcentral.com> In-Reply-To: Cc: netmod@ietf.org Subject: Re: [netmod] yang-03, import/include by-revision X-BeenThere: netmod@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.9 Precedence: list List-Id: NETMOD WG list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; Format="flowed" Sender: netmod-bounces@ietf.org Errors-To: netmod-bounces@ietf.org WashamFan wrote: > Hi, >> >> Issue 5) The revision is optional in the file format, so I am not >> >> sure what value it has at all. Does that mean there >> >> is no revision, or does it mean the user just felt >> >> like leaving it out? >> > >> > Both, but maybe we should be more restrictive, i.e. say that if the >> > module has a revision stmt, then the filename SHOULD include the >> > latest revision date? >> > >> >> case 1) >> >> import A { prefix a; revision X; } >> >> - if A has no revision X, then the import MUST fail >> (no module used for A) >> - A is considered 'revision X' if and only if its highest valued >> revision-date is X. > > I got a little confused. X is nonsense if it does not equal highest valued revision-date, i.e, we should always import the most recent module. So Why should we need 'revision X' in the statement? > no. as modules get updated over time, it is important to preserve pre-existing modules. Consider a module A that imports a grouping from module B. The contents of A do not change over time even if the grouping in B does change over time. Import-by-revision allows module A to 'freeze' its version of the grouping, even if other modules import newer versions of B, and the grouping has different contents in those other modules. > washam Andy > >> - A has no revision if it has no revision-stmts. >> Any import of A requresting a specific version MUST fail >> >> case 2) >> >> import A ( prefix a; } >> >> - if A has revision-stmts (in each instance) >> then the instance with the highest valued revision-date >> SHOULD be used >> >> - if A does not have revision-stmts (in each instance) >> then it is implementation-specific which instance >> of module A is used > > > > _______________________________________________ netmod mailing list netmod@ietf.org https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/netmod