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Received: from xhc-aln-x14.cisco.com (xhc-aln-x14.cisco.com [173.36.12.88]) by alln-core-3.cisco.com (8.14.5/8.14.5) with ESMTP id sA1Fb0rN007731 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=AES128-SHA bits=128 verify=FAIL); Sat, 1 Nov 2014 15:37:00 GMT Received: from xmb-aln-x08.cisco.com ([169.254.3.162]) by xhc-aln-x14.cisco.com ([173.36.12.88]) with mapi id 14.03.0195.001; Sat, 1 Nov 2014 10:36:59 -0500 From: "Ambika Prasad Tripathy (ambtripa)" To: Andy Bierman , Juergen Schoenwaelder , Qin Wu , "Martin Bjorklund" , "Eric Voit (evoit)" , "netmod@ietf.org" Thread-Topic: [netmod] YANG model containing both device and domain config Thread-Index: AQHP9NciSF8QziWu/kCXisv3L46wapxKGtSA//+uG9iAACes8IAAX2mA//+tEJCAAHQbAIAALocAgAFBzZA= Date: Sat, 1 Nov 2014 15:36:59 +0000 Message-ID: <3B675C3A8DF102408C754E30986E43CF05CF43DC@xmb-aln-x08.cisco.com> References: <3B675C3A8DF102408C754E30986E43CF05CE77E9@xmb-aln-x08.cisco.com> <3B675C3A8DF102408C754E30986E43CF05CE789B@xmb-aln-x08.cisco.com> <20141031101045.GA2139@elstar.local> <3B675C3A8DF102408C754E30986E43CF05CE78D5@xmb-aln-x08.cisco.com> <20141031120930.GA2576@elstar.local> In-Reply-To: Accept-Language: en-IN, en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-originating-ip: [10.65.41.35] Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 MIME-Version: 1.0 Archived-At: http://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/netmod/knubo522DgUgq0ARZwrGszeUj60 Subject: Re: [netmod] YANG model containing both device and domain config X-BeenThere: netmod@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: NETMOD WG list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sat, 01 Nov 2014 15:37:04 -0000 SGkgQW5keSwNCg0KVG8gTk9URSBoZXJlLCBtb3VudCB0ZWNobm9sb2d5IGlzIG5vdCBhIHJlcGxp Y2F0aW9uIGVuZ2luZSB0byByZXBsaWNhdGUgY29tcGxldGUgZGF0YSBzdG9yZSBvbiBhIGNvbnRy b2xsZXIuIEl0IGlzIGEgc2VsZWN0aXZlIHN1YnRyZWUgcmVwbGljYXRpb24gZW5naW5lIGJhc2Vk 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14.03.0195.001; Sat, 1 Nov 2014 10:46:12 -0500 From: "Ambika Prasad Tripathy (ambtripa)" To: Juergen Schoenwaelder Thread-Topic: [netmod] YANG model containing both device and domain config Thread-Index: AQHP9NciSF8QziWu/kCXisv3L46wapxKGtSA//+uG9iAACes8IAAX2mA//+tEJCAAHQbAP//s6OwAA+1k4AAKQQSQA== Date: Sat, 1 Nov 2014 15:46:12 +0000 Message-ID: <3B675C3A8DF102408C754E30986E43CF05CF53F6@xmb-aln-x08.cisco.com> References: <3B675C3A8DF102408C754E30986E43CF05CE77E9@xmb-aln-x08.cisco.com> <3B675C3A8DF102408C754E30986E43CF05CE789B@xmb-aln-x08.cisco.com> <20141031101045.GA2139@elstar.local> <3B675C3A8DF102408C754E30986E43CF05CE78D5@xmb-aln-x08.cisco.com> <20141031120930.GA2576@elstar.local> <3B675C3A8DF102408C754E30986E43CF05CE7960@xmb-aln-x08.cisco.com> <20141031150557.GA3050@elstar.local> In-Reply-To: <20141031150557.GA3050@elstar.local> Accept-Language: en-IN, en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-originating-ip: [10.65.41.35] Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 MIME-Version: 1.0 Archived-At: http://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/netmod/62LadlVBHCbXpKQFyP3eFO5nbaQ Cc: "netmod@ietf.org" Subject: Re: [netmod] YANG model containing both device and domain config X-BeenThere: netmod@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: NETMOD WG list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sat, 01 Nov 2014 15:46:17 -0000 SGksDQoNClBsZWFzZSB0YWtlIGEgbG9vayBvbiBiZWxvdyBkcmFmdHMgZm9yIHRoZSByZWxhdGlv biBiZXR3ZWVuIG1vdW50IGNsaWVudCBhbmQgbW91bnQgc2VydmVyIHdpdGggZGF0YXN0b3Jlcy4N Cg0KMS4JaHR0cDovL3Rvb2xzLmlldGYub3JnL2h0bWwvZHJhZnQtY2xlbW0tbmV0bW9kLW1vdW50 LTAyDQoyLglodHRwOi8vdG9vbHMuaWV0Zi5vcmcvaHRtbC9kcmFmdC12b2l0LW5ldG1vZC1wZWVy LW1vdW50LXJlcXVpcmVtZW50cy0wMQ0KDQpUaGUgY3VycmVudCBOZXRDb25mIC8gUmVzdENvbmYg aXMgbm90IHN1aXRhYmxlIHRvIHVzZSBhcyBhIHRyYW5zcG9ydCBiZXR3ZWVuIG1vdW50IGNsaWVu 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<3B675C3A8DF102408C754E30986E43CF05CF43DC@xmb-aln-x08.cisco.com> References: <3B675C3A8DF102408C754E30986E43CF05CE77E9@xmb-aln-x08.cisco.com> <3B675C3A8DF102408C754E30986E43CF05CE789B@xmb-aln-x08.cisco.com> <20141031101045.GA2139@elstar.local> <3B675C3A8DF102408C754E30986E43CF05CE78D5@xmb-aln-x08.cisco.com> <20141031120930.GA2576@elstar.local> <3B675C3A8DF102408C754E30986E43CF05CF43DC@xmb-aln-x08.cisco.com> Date: Sat, 1 Nov 2014 09:16:52 -0700 Message-ID: From: Andy Bierman To: "Ambika Prasad Tripathy (ambtripa)" Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Archived-At: http://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/netmod/tQW7b8F4ujpCCLXYLM-5i0GpYcE Cc: "netmod@ietf.org" Subject: Re: [netmod] YANG model containing both device and domain config X-BeenThere: netmod@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: NETMOD WG list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sat, 01 Nov 2014 16:16:57 -0000 On Sat, Nov 1, 2014 at 8:36 AM, Ambika Prasad Tripathy (ambtripa) wrote: > Hi Andy, > > To NOTE here, mount technology is not a replication engine to replicate c= omplete data store on a controller. It is a selective subtree replication e= ngine based on mount definition received from mount clients. Why any applic= ation will mount complete data store? I don=E2=80=99t see any requirement t= o replicate the data store of a device to a controller. > I understand it is for replicating subtrees from a datastore, and it is up to the config whether that is all subtrees or not. Replicating operational data is quite expensive. I noticed the Cloud SLA draft seems to replicate interface counters from the devices. I suppose large routers have the horsepower to pump out their IF stats constantly, but why not just use IPFIX for that? Why bother with all this extra "mount" semantics? How are the devices supp= osed to know which controllers are present and exactly what data they are supposed to push to each controller? Why not just configure each controlle= r? > To understand why we need mount, the complete problem domain addressed in= the requirement draft. http://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-voit-netmod-peer-m= ount-requirements-01 and mount extension draft http://tools.ietf.org/html/d= raft-clemm-netmod-mount-02. > I will try to find out there why the devices are configuring the applications instead of the normal mode. > There is no hard rule that device SHOULD mount data from controllers. Bas= ed on application requirement selective object mount is a better way. > So the devices implement lots of ways to do the same thing? IMO the servers should be as simple as possible to keep costs down. Flexibility in the controller means extra complexity in the devices. > If devices mounting (mount client) to a subtree from remote device/contro= ller (mount server), then the data replication will be triggered by the mou= nt server to all mount clients based on mount policies. It bring applicatio= n simplicity by decoupling the application logic from data fetch infra. > > If there is a requirement of pushing data to 10 devices and there are 100= 0 devices present in the network, then those 10 devices should mount for th= e data. > > About the scale requirement of handing 1000s of devices for a mount point= , (I think can be a scenario with controller), and one controller is not ca= pable of handing it, then multi player architecture can be placed to handle= it. So the new protocol that devices would implement to push their operational data would not have congestion control? That's required by the IETF. > > Br, > Ambika > Andy > -----Original Message----- > From: Andy Bierman [mailto:andy@yumaworks.com] > Sent: Friday, October 31, 2014 8:26 PM > To: Juergen Schoenwaelder; Ambika Prasad Tripathy (ambtripa); Qin Wu; Mar= tin Bjorklund; Eric Voit (evoit); netmod@ietf.org > Subject: Re: [netmod] YANG model containing both device and domain config > > Hi, > > Maybe you can explain to me (because the authors can't) why we need mecha= nisms for devices to replicate their data on a controller? Why problem doe= s this solve? > > Why is the device initiating the mount? How is the controller-specific c= onfig managed in each device and why is this easier/better than just config= uring the controller to replicate data? > > I am much more concerned about resources and complexity in the devices th= an in the controllers. Why put complex code in 1000 boxes when it can go i= n just 10? Why configure 1000 boxes when you can just configure just 10? > > What happens when 1000 devices are pushing operational state changes too = fast? How much device and network overhead is acceptable? Polling has its = drawbacks but flooding the collector isn't one of them. It seems like a bu= rst of operational updates would correlate with bursts of network activity,= making congestion even worse. > > > Andy > > On Fri, Oct 31, 2014 at 5:09 AM, Juergen Schoenwaelder wrote: >> Hi, >> >> I think we need to separate the discussion clearly between: >> >> a) a controller mounting read-only data from a set of NC servers >> >> b) a NC server mounting data from a set of controllers >> >> For me, these are very different things. I can't parse your answer >> because I do not know when you talk about a) and when about b) and >> because of that I do not know what 'application' is or why eventual >> consistency is important. >> >> /js >> >> On Fri, Oct 31, 2014 at 10:33:48AM +0000, Ambika Prasad Tripathy (ambtri= pa) wrote: >>> Hi , >>> >>> Yes. There are other mechanism to pull the data from device when requir= ed by controller based application, but mount is more than that. The existi= ng pulling mechanism is just one part of what mount describes are on-demand= mount policy. The existing pulling mechanism is not providing eventually c= onsistency across the network which is need by the Domain policer applicati= on descried in draft. For that mount is a better way. >>> >>> When application mount's any object to remote data store, it is up to t= he application how to use the objects. Mount is not enforcing to use those = objects by the application nor it not overriding any policy of the applicat= ion which is mounting. The application who own the authoritative copy of ob= ject, they should decide on how to use it. >>> >>> Br, >>> Ambika >>> >>> -----Original Message----- >>> From: Juergen Schoenwaelder >>> [mailto:j.schoenwaelder@jacobs-university.de] >>> Sent: Friday, October 31, 2014 3:41 PM >>> To: Ambika Prasad Tripathy (ambtripa) >>> Cc: Qin Wu; Martin Bjorklund; Eric Voit (evoit); netmod@ietf.org >>> Subject: Re: [netmod] YANG model containing both device and domain >>> config >>> >>> On Fri, Oct 31, 2014 at 09:53:50AM +0000, Ambika Prasad Tripathy (ambtr= ipa) wrote: >>> > Hi, >>> > >>> > Adding more info how mount works: >>> > >>> > Mount brings One authoritative copy of an object across a Network. It= is read only to the data store to get a snapshot of the mounted data store= based on mount policies defied in another IETF draft =E2=80=9Cpeer-mount-r= equirements=E2=80=9D >>> > >>> > Mount is not a mechanism to configure a device or write to remote dat= a store. For that existing interfaces are already there. >>> > >>> >>> Well, there are also existing interfaces to read config and state >>> data. ;-) >>> >>> > If devices want to get some configuration data from a namespace of th= e controller data store, then applications running in the device can mount = it from the controller datastore. >>> > For example, for the policer yang model defined in draft draft-tripat= hy-cloud-sla-yang-model-00, applications running in device which is respons= ible of policing data for the domain in the device, can mount the =E2=80=9C= container policing-policies=E2=80=9D to get new police values when there is= a change in policy rate by cloud application. >>> > >>> >>> This use case I find actually more interesting but then I am not sure I= understand how this works or whether a plain mount is the way to do this. = If a device mounts some policy information, does this mean the device commi= ts to follow the policy information, that is to change the operational stat= e according to the policy? If so, how are conflicts resolved? What is the l= ifetime of the injected config state? Is it ephemeral? Is it bound to the m= ount? How does this relate to I2RS? >>> They intend to push configuration while you seem to let the device pull= some configuration from a controller. Will both internally be treated the = same way? >>> >>> I believe it is worth looking into the use case where a device wants to= pull configuration from a 'controller' instead of having the 'controller' = to push the configuration. Whether mount is the right solution for this, I = can't tell at this point in time. >>> >>> /js (speaking as contributor) >>> >>> -- >>> Juergen Schoenwaelder Jacobs University Bremen gGmbH >>> Phone: +49 421 200 3587 Campus Ring 1, 28759 Bremen, Germany >>> Fax: +49 421 200 3103 >> >> -- >> Juergen Schoenwaelder Jacobs University Bremen gGmbH >> Phone: +49 421 200 3587 Campus Ring 1, 28759 Bremen, Germany >> Fax: +49 421 200 3103 >> >> _______________________________________________ >> netmod mailing list >> netmod@ietf.org >> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/netmod From nobody Sat Nov 1 12:56:25 2014 Return-Path: X-Original-To: netmod@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: netmod@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id A42371A066B for ; Sat, 1 Nov 2014 12:56:22 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -14.511 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-14.511 tagged_above=-999 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-0500 From: "Eric Voit (evoit)" To: Andy Bierman , "Ambika Prasad Tripathy (ambtripa)" Thread-Topic: [netmod] YANG model containing both device and domain config Thread-Index: AQHP9Ncc0r5QzlOUmUKJvUWcHn/dupxKGtSAgAAB7ACAAC6HAIAABL2AgAAGbgCAABq9AIAALocAgAGdxoCAAAslAP//11Bw Date: Sat, 1 Nov 2014 19:56:16 +0000 Message-ID: References: <3B675C3A8DF102408C754E30986E43CF05CE77E9@xmb-aln-x08.cisco.com> <3B675C3A8DF102408C754E30986E43CF05CE789B@xmb-aln-x08.cisco.com> <20141031101045.GA2139@elstar.local> <3B675C3A8DF102408C754E30986E43CF05CE78D5@xmb-aln-x08.cisco.com> <20141031120930.GA2576@elstar.local> <3B675C3A8DF102408C754E30986E43CF05CF43DC@xmb-aln-x08.cisco.com> In-Reply-To: Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-originating-ip: [10.21.125.190] Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 MIME-Version: 1.0 Archived-At: http://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/netmod/Gz6bnOoh_8Qqd5RsMYMmwDqbKIs Cc: "netmod@ietf.org" Subject: Re: [netmod] YANG model containing both device and domain config X-BeenThere: netmod@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: NETMOD WG list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sat, 01 Nov 2014 19:56:22 -0000 PiBGcm9tOiBBbmR5IEJpZXJtYW4sIE5vdmVtYmVyIDAxLCAyMDE0IDEyOjE3IFBNDQo+IA0KPiBP biBTYXQsIE5vdiAxLCAyMDE0IGF0IDg6MzYgQU0sIEFtYmlrYSBQcmFzYWQgVHJpcGF0aHkgKGFt YnRyaXBhKQ0KPiA8YW1idHJpcGFAY2lzY28uY29tPiB3cm90ZToNCj4gPiBIaSBBbmR5LA0KPiA+ DQo+ID4gVG8gTk9URSBoZXJlLCBtb3VudCB0ZWNobm9sb2d5IGlzIG5vdCBhIHJlcGxpY2F0aW9u IGVuZ2luZSB0byByZXBsaWNhdGUNCj4gY29tcGxldGUgZGF0YSBzdG9yZSBvbiBhIGNvbnRyb2xs ZXIuIEl0IGlzIGEgc2VsZWN0aXZlIHN1YnRyZWUgcmVwbGljYXRpb24gZW5naW5lDQo+IGJhc2Vk IG9uIG1vdW50IGRlZmluaXRpb24gcmVjZWl2ZWQgZnJvbSBtb3VudCBjbGllbnRzLiBXaHkgYW55 IGFwcGxpY2F0aW9uIHdpbGwNCj4gbW91bnQgY29tcGxldGUgZGF0YSBzdG9yZT8gSSBkb27igJl0 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15:30:19 +0800 Received: from YingCheng-PC (123.113.178.48) by m10-hq-mlch01.hq.cnc.intra (10.0.15.26) with Microsoft SMTP Server id 8.2.213.0; Sun, 2 Nov 2014 15:30:16 +0800 Date: Sun, 2 Nov 2014 15:30:16 +0800 From: Ying Cheng To: netmod , supa , tnadeau References: , <2BDFF8E6-A722-48D8-B4CE-9F3229B0196F@lucidvision.com>, <201411021000260981014@chinaunicom.cn> Message-ID: <201411021530153111291@chinaunicom.cn> X-mailer: Foxmail 6, 15, 201, 26 [cn] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="=====001_Dragon534885212208_=====" X-Brightmail-Tracker: H4sIAAAAAAAAA+NgFnrJJcWRmVeSWpSXmKPExsXCxXBAS7fnbmiIwdN9XBbzLzayWszesorZ 4uHkS+wOzB5Llvxk8tj6ZAl7AFNUnU1iXl5+SWJJqkJKanGyrVJwZnpeYklpUaqCf2lJUn5p XoqSQmaKrZKxkkJBTmJyam5qXomtUmJBQSpQxo5LAQPYAJVl5imk5iXnp2TmpdsqhYa46Voo 2T1d1vRs3pxnTSteTpn5Yv36Z31Ln03ZlnCFJeP59IcsBTuuclRM/LSfvYHx/A6OLkZODgkB E4lFvU+YIGwxiQv31rN1MXJxCAnsZZQ4cvMMM4SzmVFi2teHbCBVQgKLGSUW70/rYuTgYBFQ 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AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAOLxAAB3b3JkL3Blb3BsZS54bWxQSwUGAAAAABsAGwDSBgAAy/MAAAAA --=====001_Dragon534885212208_=====-- From nobody Sun Nov 2 19:24:45 2014 Return-Path: X-Original-To: netmod@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: netmod@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 21E5E1A6F05 for ; Sun, 2 Nov 2014 19:24:44 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -4.795 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-4.795 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-2.3, RP_MATCHES_RCVD=-0.594, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id q1tU0CU1Jz0s for ; Sun, 2 Nov 2014 19:24:42 -0800 (PST) Received: from lhrrgout.huawei.com (lhrrgout.huawei.com [194.213.3.17]) (using TLSv1 with cipher RC4-SHA (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 54A9D1A6F01 for ; Sun, 2 Nov 2014 19:24:42 -0800 (PST) Received: from 172.18.7.190 (EHLO lhreml406-hub.china.huawei.com) ([172.18.7.190]) by lhrrg02-dlp.huawei.com (MOS 4.3.7-GA FastPath queued) with ESMTP id BLF23229; Mon, 03 Nov 2014 03:24:40 +0000 (GMT) Received: from NKGEML406-HUB.china.huawei.com (10.98.56.37) by lhreml406-hub.china.huawei.com (10.201.5.243) with Microsoft SMTP Server (TLS) id 14.3.158.1; Mon, 3 Nov 2014 03:24:39 +0000 Received: from NKGEML501-MBS.china.huawei.com ([169.254.2.21]) by nkgeml406-hub.china.huawei.com ([10.98.56.37]) with mapi id 14.03.0158.001; Mon, 3 Nov 2014 11:24:36 +0800 From: Qin Wu To: "Eric Voit (evoit)" , Andy Bierman , "Ambika Prasad Tripathy (ambtripa)" Thread-Topic: [netmod] YANG model containing both device and domain config Thread-Index: AQHP9Nc2tEjARaD7QkOxXrpOP7hVwJxJxWoQ//99aACAAC6HAIAABL2AgAAGbgCAABq9AIAALocAgAGdxoCAAAslAIAAPU0AgAKK0GA= Date: Mon, 3 Nov 2014 03:24:35 +0000 Message-ID: References: <3B675C3A8DF102408C754E30986E43CF05CE77E9@xmb-aln-x08.cisco.com> <3B675C3A8DF102408C754E30986E43CF05CE789B@xmb-aln-x08.cisco.com> <20141031101045.GA2139@elstar.local> <3B675C3A8DF102408C754E30986E43CF05CE78D5@xmb-aln-x08.cisco.com> <20141031120930.GA2576@elstar.local> <3B675C3A8DF102408C754E30986E43CF05CF43DC@xmb-aln-x08.cisco.com> In-Reply-To: Accept-Language: zh-CN, en-US Content-Language: zh-CN X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-originating-ip: [10.138.41.180] Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-CFilter-Loop: Reflected Archived-At: http://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/netmod/r0bmoFZPoK6iZa0n0gEs2aF7Pvw Cc: "netmod@ietf.org" Subject: Re: [netmod] YANG model containing both device and domain config X-BeenThere: netmod@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: NETMOD WG list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 03 Nov 2014 03:24:44 -0000 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X-Original-To: netmod@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: netmod@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 57ED81A6F05 for ; Sun, 2 Nov 2014 19:35:55 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -4.795 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-4.795 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-2.3, RP_MATCHES_RCVD=-0.594, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id cHPhQ1o0f9gu for ; Sun, 2 Nov 2014 19:35:53 -0800 (PST) Received: from lhrrgout.huawei.com (lhrrgout.huawei.com [194.213.3.17]) (using TLSv1 with cipher RC4-SHA (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id A27DB1A6F03 for ; Sun, 2 Nov 2014 19:35:52 -0800 (PST) Received: from 172.18.7.190 (EHLO lhreml401-hub.china.huawei.com) ([172.18.7.190]) by lhrrg01-dlp.huawei.com (MOS 4.3.7-GA FastPath queued) with ESMTP id BOI44997; Mon, 03 Nov 2014 03:35:51 +0000 (GMT) Received: from NKGEML402-HUB.china.huawei.com (10.98.56.33) by lhreml401-hub.china.huawei.com (10.201.5.240) with Microsoft SMTP Server (TLS) id 14.3.158.1; Mon, 3 Nov 2014 03:35:50 +0000 Received: from NKGEML501-MBS.china.huawei.com ([169.254.2.21]) by nkgeml402-hub.china.huawei.com ([10.98.56.33]) with mapi id 14.03.0158.001; Mon, 3 Nov 2014 11:35:44 +0800 From: Qin Wu To: "Ambika Prasad Tripathy (ambtripa)" , Andy Bierman , Juergen Schoenwaelder , Martin Bjorklund , "Eric Voit (evoit)" , "netmod@ietf.org" Thread-Topic: [netmod] YANG model containing both device and domain config Thread-Index: AQHP9Nc2tEjARaD7QkOxXrpOP7hVwJxJxWoQ//99aACAAC6HAIAABL2AgAAGbgCAABq9AIAALocAgAGdxoCAAt8pkA== Date: Mon, 3 Nov 2014 03:35:43 +0000 Message-ID: References: <3B675C3A8DF102408C754E30986E43CF05CE77E9@xmb-aln-x08.cisco.com> <3B675C3A8DF102408C754E30986E43CF05CE789B@xmb-aln-x08.cisco.com> <20141031101045.GA2139@elstar.local> <3B675C3A8DF102408C754E30986E43CF05CE78D5@xmb-aln-x08.cisco.com> <20141031120930.GA2576@elstar.local> <3B675C3A8DF102408C754E30986E43CF05CF43DC@xmb-aln-x08.cisco.com> In-Reply-To: <3B675C3A8DF102408C754E30986E43CF05CF43DC@xmb-aln-x08.cisco.com> Accept-Language: zh-CN, en-US Content-Language: zh-CN X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-originating-ip: [10.138.41.180] Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-CFilter-Loop: Reflected Archived-At: http://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/netmod/hxxOWfzj1YZMdDDnbV03_l5N20U Subject: Re: [netmod] YANG model containing both device and domain config X-BeenThere: netmod@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: NETMOD WG list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 03 Nov 2014 03:35:55 -0000 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dHRwOi8vd3d3LmphY29icy11bml2ZXJzaXR5LmRlLz4NCj4NCj4gLS0NCj4gSnVlcmdlbiBTY2hv ZW53YWVsZGVyICAgICAgICAgICBKYWNvYnMgVW5pdmVyc2l0eSBCcmVtZW4gZ0dtYkgNCj4gUGhv bmU6ICs0OSA0MjEgMjAwIDM1ODcgICAgICAgICBDYW1wdXMgUmluZyAxLCAyODc1OSBCcmVtZW4s IEdlcm1hbnkNCj4gRmF4OiAgICs0OSA0MjEgMjAwIDMxMDMgICAgICAgICA8aHR0cDovL3d3dy5q YWNvYnMtdW5pdmVyc2l0eS5kZS8+DQo+DQo+IF9fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19f X19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fDQo+IG5ldG1vZCBtYWlsaW5nIGxpc3QNCj4gbmV0bW9kQGlldGYu b3JnDQo+IGh0dHBzOi8vd3d3LmlldGYub3JnL21haWxtYW4vbGlzdGluZm8vbmV0bW9kDQo= From nobody Sun Nov 2 22:27:16 2014 Return-Path: X-Original-To: netmod@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: netmod@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 30A131A1A06; Sun, 2 Nov 2014 22:27:12 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -4.784 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-4.784 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, 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szxeml451-hub.china.huawei.com ([10.82.67.194]) with mapi id 14.03.0158.001; Mon, 3 Nov 2014 14:27:02 +0800 From: Tina TSOU To: Parviz Yegani Thread-Topic: [Supa] [netmod] SUPA drafts related to YANG model Thread-Index: Ac/06t0/z/knT3IdQuS6+tu4bPZ8SP//xHkAgAQt4YCAAJZGvg== Date: Mon, 3 Nov 2014 06:27:01 +0000 Message-ID: <474A1D48-AFDC-4D2E-B98A-79DB07857397@huawei.com> References: <2BDFF8E6-A722-48D8-B4CE-9F3229B0196F@lucidvision.com>, In-Reply-To: Accept-Language: en-US, zh-CN Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="_000_474A1D48AFDC4D2EB98A79DB07857397huaweicom_" MIME-Version: 1.0 X-CFilter-Loop: Reflected Archived-At: http://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/netmod/LbEl7eI8sO0mZLBIw8xaPMi32LE Cc: "netmod@ietf.org" , "supa@ietf.org" Subject: Re: [netmod] [Supa] SUPA drafts related to YANG model X-BeenThere: netmod@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: NETMOD WG list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 03 Nov 2014 06:27:12 -0000 --_000_474A1D48AFDC4D2EB98A79DB07857397huaweicom_ Content-Type: text/plain; charset="Windows-1252" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Dear Parviz and Ying, Thanks for your prompt reply. Dear all, The SUPA bar BoF will be held Where: Room South Pacific 2 When: 8 - 9:30pm Monday You are welcome to join. Thank you, Tina On Nov 3, 2014, at 6:29 AM, "Parviz Yegani" > wrote: (I'm receiving Tom's email after 2 days;) Don't know why? Hello, Tom, You may want to have a look at the proposed charter and the problem stateme= nt of SUPA/YMCA. The charter should be available online. You may find it in= teresting. If you want we can talk about it during the IETF meeting (peharp= s during coffee break). Your point is well-taken and yes, it's important th= at the folks who are interested in participating in SUPA discussions adhere= to the IETF guidelines. We're going to have a Bar BoF in Honolulu. Hope yo= u can join. Thanks, Parviz On Fri, Oct 31, 2014 at 6:39 AM, Thomas D. Nadeau > wrote: Rather than dropping a big list of models here for =93optional reading=94, = it might help if you explain the context and why people might spend time re= viewing these. It should be pointed out that SUPA is not an IETF WG, so understanding wher= e this fits into the universe and why its relevant would be helpful. =97Tom On Oct 31, 2014:5:12 AM, at 5:12 AM, Tina TSOU > wrote: Dear all, Some SUPA drafts related to YANG model for your reading pleasure and commen= ts. http://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-contreras-supa-yang-network-topo/ http://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-zaalouk-supa-configuration-model/ More context could be found at http://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/search/?name=3DSupa&rfcs=3Don&activedrafts= =3Don&sort=3D&by=3Dauthor&author=3D Document [http://datatracker.ietf.org/images/sort-header-clear.png] Title [http://datatracker.ie= tf.org/images/sort-header-clear.png] Date [http://datatracker.ietf.org/images/sort-header-clear.png] <= http://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/search/?sort=3Ddate&name=3DSupa&activedraft= s=3Don&author=3D&rfcs=3Don&by=3Dauthor> Status [http://datatracker.= ietf.org/images/sort-header-clear.png] IPR [http://datatracker.ietf.org/images/sort-header-clear.png] <= http://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/search/?sort=3Dipr&name=3DSupa&activedrafts= =3Don&author=3D&rfcs=3Don&by=3Dauthor> AD / Shepherd [http://datatracker.= ietf.org/images/sort-header-clear.png] Active Internet-Drafts draft-bi-supa-gap-analysis-00 Shared Unified Policy Automation (SUPA) Gap Analysis = 2014-09-25 I-D Exists draft-bi-supa-sdsavi-00 A SUPA Use Case for SAVI 2014-09-26 I-D Exists draft-cheng-supa-ddc-use-cases-01 Use Cases for Distributed Data Center Applicat= ions in SUPA 2014-10-27 new I-D Exists draft-contreras-supa-yang-network-topo-01 A YANG Data Model for Network = Topologies 2014-10-27 new I-D Exists draft-karagiannis-supa-problem-statement-02 Problem Statement for Shared U= nified Policy Automation (SUPA) 2014-10-27 new I-D Exists draft-pentikousis-supa-mapping-00 SUPA Configuration and Policy Mapping 2014-0= 9-23 I-D Exists draft-sun-supa-openv6-use-cases-00 Use case of IPv6 transition in SUPA 2014-0= 9-25 I-D Exists draft-zaalouk-supa-configuration-model-01 YANG Data Model for Configurat= ion of Shared Unified Policy Automation (SUPA) 2014-10-27 new I-D Exists draft-zhou-supa-architecture-00 The Architecture for Shared Unified Policy Automation = (SUPA) 2014-10-27 new I-D Exists Thank you, Tina _______________________________________________ netmod mailing list netmod@ietf.org https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/netmod _______________________________________________ Supa mailing list Supa@ietf.org https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/supa -- Dr. Parviz Yegani (408) 759-1973 mobile pyegani@gmail.com --_000_474A1D48AFDC4D2EB98A79DB07857397huaweicom_ Content-Type: text/html; charset="Windows-1252" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Dear Parviz and Ying,

Thanks for your prompt reply= .

Dear all,

The SUPA bar BoF will = be held
Where: Room South Pacific 2
When: 8 - 9:30pm Monday

You are welcome to joi= n.


Thank you,
Tina

On Nov 3, 2014, at 6:29 AM, "Parviz Yegani" <pyegani@gmail.com> wrote:

(I'm receiving Tom's email after 2 days;) Don't know why?

Hello, Tom,

You may want to have a look at the proposed charter and the problem st= atement of SUPA/YMCA. The charter should be available online. You may find = it interesting. If you want we can talk about it during the IETF meeting (p= eharps during coffee break). Your point is well-taken and yes, it's important that the folks who are interes= ted in participating in SUPA discussions adhere to the IETF guidelines. We'= re going to have a Bar BoF in Honolulu. Hope you can join. 

Thanks,
Parviz



On Fri, Oct 31, 2014 at 6:39 AM, Thomas D. Nadea= u <tnadeau@lu= cidvision.com> wrote:

Rather than dropping a big list= of models here for =93optional reading=94, it might help if you explain th= e context and why people might spend time reviewing these.

It should be pointed out t= hat SUPA is not an IETF WG, so understanding where this fits into the unive= rse and why its relevant would be helpful.

=97Tom



On Oct 31, 2014:5:12 AM, at 5:12 AM, Tina TSOU <Tina.Tsou.Zouting@huawei.com= > wrote:

Dear all,

Some SUPA drafts related to YANG model = for your reading pleasure and comments.

More context could be found at

Document  Title  Date  Status  IPR  AD / Shepherd 
Active Internet-Drafts=
draft-b= i-supa-gap-analysis-00 Shared Unified Policy = Automation (SUPA) Gap Analysis 201= 4-09-25 I-D Exists
draft-bi-supa= -sdsavi-00 A SUPA Use Case for SA= VI 201= 4-09-26 I-D Exists
dra= ft-cheng-supa-ddc-use-cases-01 Use Cases for Distribu= ted Data Center Applications in SUPA 201= 4-10-27 I-D Exists
<= font>draft-contreras-supa-yang-network-topo-01 A YANG Data Model for = Network Topologies 201= 4-10-27 I-D Exists
draft-karagiannis-supa-problem-statement-02 Problem Statement for = Shared Unified Policy Automation (SUPA) 201= 4-10-27 I-D Exists
dra= ft-pentikousis-supa-mapping-00 SUPA Configuration and= Policy Mapping 201= 4-09-23 I-D Exists
dr= aft-sun-supa-openv6-use-cases-00 Use case of IPv6 trans= ition in SUPA 201= 4-09-25 I-D Exists
<= font>draft-zaalouk-supa-configuration-model-01 YANG Data Model for Co= nfiguration of Shared Unified Policy Automation (SUPA) 201= 4-10-27 I-D Exists
draft= -zhou-supa-architecture-00 The Architecture for S= hared Unified Policy Automation (SUPA) 201= 4-10-27 I-D Exists


Thank you,
Tina
_______________________________________________
netmod mailing list
netmod@ietf.org = https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/netmod


_______________________________________________
Supa mailing list
Supa@ietf.org
ht= tps://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/supa




--
Dr. Parviz Yegani
(408) 759-1973 mobile
--_000_474A1D48AFDC4D2EB98A79DB07857397huaweicom_-- From nobody Sun Nov 2 22:59:38 2014 Return-Path: X-Original-To: netmod@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: netmod@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id E0A7B1A1A5E for ; Sun, 2 Nov 2014 22:59:37 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -15.095 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-15.095 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_HI=-5, RP_MATCHES_RCVD=-0.594, SPF_PASS=-0.001, USER_IN_DEF_DKIM_WL=-7.5] autolearn=ham Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id wFzxf_u4FHEy for ; Sun, 2 Nov 2014 22:59:35 -0800 (PST) Received: from alln-iport-4.cisco.com (alln-iport-4.cisco.com [173.37.142.91]) (using TLSv1 with cipher RC4-SHA (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate 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alln-iport-4.cisco.com with ESMTP; 03 Nov 2014 06:59:34 +0000 Received: from xhc-rcd-x05.cisco.com (xhc-rcd-x05.cisco.com [173.37.183.79]) by rcdn-core-12.cisco.com (8.14.5/8.14.5) with ESMTP id sA36xYLf025824 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=AES128-SHA bits=128 verify=FAIL); Mon, 3 Nov 2014 06:59:34 GMT Received: from xmb-aln-x08.cisco.com ([169.254.3.162]) by xhc-rcd-x05.cisco.com ([173.37.183.79]) with mapi id 14.03.0195.001; Mon, 3 Nov 2014 00:59:34 -0600 From: "Ambika Prasad Tripathy (ambtripa)" To: Qin Wu , Andy Bierman , "Juergen Schoenwaelder" , Martin Bjorklund , "Eric Voit (evoit)" , "netmod@ietf.org" Thread-Topic: [netmod] YANG model containing both device and domain config Thread-Index: AQHP9NciSF8QziWu/kCXisv3L46wapxKGtSA//+uG9iAACes8IAAX2mA//+tEJCAAHQbAIAALocAgAFBzZCAAsfhgP//sZpA Date: Mon, 3 Nov 2014 06:59:33 +0000 Message-ID: <3B675C3A8DF102408C754E30986E43CF05CF7B7A@xmb-aln-x08.cisco.com> References: <3B675C3A8DF102408C754E30986E43CF05CE77E9@xmb-aln-x08.cisco.com> <3B675C3A8DF102408C754E30986E43CF05CE789B@xmb-aln-x08.cisco.com> <20141031101045.GA2139@elstar.local> <3B675C3A8DF102408C754E30986E43CF05CE78D5@xmb-aln-x08.cisco.com> <20141031120930.GA2576@elstar.local> <3B675C3A8DF102408C754E30986E43CF05CF43DC@xmb-aln-x08.cisco.com> In-Reply-To: Accept-Language: en-IN, en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-originating-ip: [10.142.111.123] Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 MIME-Version: 1.0 Archived-At: http://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/netmod/vr8dsbRepX5bdv-tHtP6daG5BXU Subject: Re: [netmod] YANG model containing both device and domain config X-BeenThere: netmod@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: NETMOD WG list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 03 Nov 2014 06:59:38 -0000 SGksDQoNCk1vdW50IHBvbGljeSA9IHN1YnNjcmlwdGlvbiBwb2xpY3kuIA0KDQpVc2VyIGNhbiBj 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ZCBtYWlsaW5nIGxpc3QNCj4gbmV0bW9kQGlldGYub3JnDQo+IGh0dHBzOi8vd3d3LmlldGYub3Jn L21haWxtYW4vbGlzdGluZm8vbmV0bW9kDQo= From nobody Sun Nov 2 23:25:56 2014 Return-Path: X-Original-To: netmod@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: netmod@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id F15D11A017D; Sun, 2 Nov 2014 21:29:15 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.989 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.989 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, T_REMOTE_IMAGE=0.01] autolearn=ham Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id oTL5ZNfLyA9i; Sun, 2 Nov 2014 21:29:13 -0800 (PST) Received: from mail-wi0-x229.google.com (mail-wi0-x229.google.com [IPv6:2a00:1450:400c:c05::229]) (using TLSv1 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-RC4-SHA (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id E4F361A0145; Sun, 2 Nov 2014 21:29:12 -0800 (PST) Received: by mail-wi0-f169.google.com with SMTP id n3so5157933wiv.2 for ; Sun, 02 Nov 2014 21:29:11 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20120113; h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:date:message-id:subject:from:to :cc:content-type; bh=AbQjDBAWuOzMSvBvYFXddNHPxjLqYMoY4oOLomOSKIQ=; b=VfWrXzxtYPLqbGr7Of9s064h62slZ5oI/NhSpPf1rXVYQ8jB6eQpE5SwxY+UJfFyl4 UADGQijvBgnEQ/RJXBoqJe3H3I5ejeXB69J50hzyDR2xqqNnTI2fVud6M9vdvP9t43CX I97g5kbw/cfhOIxNBUoYfV1XxkxPMGNsAOj4RNX/9FSGiW0TNC/yCvExftcFcWHCHHQJ SlxwRIDIuczZ+INieTq5uhScWDy2UgEEcI1XZELsl5KAR7rIIou+BAhEAMaXu/TAAj2r hcn7X9cbvoAhjCTFzCbKVTC0dbLgaB2uNa0Y6GymuvduIbsM3TeG+yDBAfWvRs2G/3+V LPNA== MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Received: by 10.194.63.79 with SMTP id e15mr5520554wjs.79.1414992551513; Sun, 02 Nov 2014 21:29:11 -0800 (PST) Received: by 10.216.155.74 with HTTP; Sun, 2 Nov 2014 21:29:11 -0800 (PST) In-Reply-To: <2BDFF8E6-A722-48D8-B4CE-9F3229B0196F@lucidvision.com> References: <2BDFF8E6-A722-48D8-B4CE-9F3229B0196F@lucidvision.com> Date: Sun, 2 Nov 2014 21:29:11 -0800 Message-ID: From: Parviz Yegani To: "Thomas D. Nadeau" Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=047d7b86dada6493fd0506eda0b8 Archived-At: http://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/netmod/GzOEHs44okod4lI1GGV_aRDXgjk X-Mailman-Approved-At: Sun, 02 Nov 2014 23:25:54 -0800 Cc: "netmod@ietf.org" , "supa@ietf.org" Subject: Re: [netmod] [Supa] SUPA drafts related to YANG model X-BeenThere: netmod@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: NETMOD WG list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 03 Nov 2014 05:29:16 -0000 --047d7b86dada6493fd0506eda0b8 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable (I'm receiving Tom's email after 2 days;) Don't know why? Hello, Tom, You may want to have a look at the proposed charter and the problem statement of SUPA/YMCA. The charter should be available online. You may find it interesting. If you want we can talk about it during the IETF meeting (peharps during coffee break). Your point is well-taken and yes, it's important that the folks who are interested in participating in SUPA discussions adhere to the IETF guidelines. We're going to have a Bar BoF in Honolulu. Hope you can join. Thanks, Parviz On Fri, Oct 31, 2014 at 6:39 AM, Thomas D. Nadeau wrote: > > Rather than dropping a big list of models here for =E2=80=9Coptional read= ing=E2=80=9D, it > might help if you explain the context and why people might spend time > reviewing these. > > It should be pointed out that SUPA is not an IETF WG, so understanding > where this fits into the universe and why its relevant would be helpful. > > =E2=80=94Tom > > > > On Oct 31, 2014:5:12 AM, at 5:12 AM, Tina TSOU < > Tina.Tsou.Zouting@huawei.com> wrote: > > Dear all, > > Some SUPA drafts related to YANG model for your reading pleasure and > comments. > http://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-contreras-supa-yang-network-topo/ > http://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-zaalouk-supa-configuration-model/ > > More context could be found at > > http://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/search/?name=3DSupa&rfcs=3Don&activedraft= s=3Don&sort=3D&by=3Dauthor&author=3D > > Document > > Title > > Date > > Status > > IPR > AD > / Shepherd > Active > Internet-Drafts draft-bi-supa-gap-analysis-00 > Shared > Unified Policy Automation (SUPA) Gap Analysis 2014-09-25 I-D Exists > draft-bi-supa-sdsavi-00 > A SUPA Use Case > for SAVI 2014-09-26 I-D Exists > draft-cheng-supa-ddc-use-cases-01 > Use > Cases for Distributed Data Center Applications in SUPA 2014-10-27 > new > I-D Exists > draft-contreras-supa-yang-network-topo-01 > = A > YANG Data Model for Network Topologies 2014-10-27 > new > > I-D Exists > draft-karagiannis-supa-problem-statement-02 > Problem > Statement for Shared Unified Policy Automation (SUPA) 2014-10-27 > new > > I-D Exists > draft-pentikousis-supa-mapping-00 > SUPA > Configuration and Policy Mapping 2014-09-23 I-D Exists > draft-sun-supa-openv6-use-cases-00 > Use > case of IPv6 transition in SUPA 2014-09-25 I-D Exists > draft-zaalouk-supa-configuration-model-01 > = YANG > Data Model for Configuration of Shared Unified Policy Automation (SUPA) > 2014-10-27 > new > > I-D Exists > draft-zhou-supa-architecture-00 > The > Architecture for Shared Unified Policy Automation (SUPA) 2014-10-27 > new > I-D Exists > > > Thank you, > Tina > _______________________________________________ > netmod mailing list > netmod@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/netmod > > > > _______________________________________________ > Supa mailing list > Supa@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/supa > > --=20 Dr. Parviz Yegani (408) 759-1973 mobile pyegani@gmail.com --047d7b86dada6493fd0506eda0b8 Content-Type: text/html; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
(I'm receiving Tom's email after 2 days;) Don'= t know why?

Hello, Tom,

You may= want to have a look at the proposed charter and the problem statement of S= UPA/YMCA. The charter should be available online. You may find it interesti= ng. If you want we can talk about it during the IETF meeting (peharps durin= g coffee break). Your point is well-taken and yes, it's important that = the folks who are interested in participating in SUPA discussions adhere to= the IETF guidelines. We're going to have a Bar BoF in Honolulu. Hope y= ou can join.=C2=A0

Thanks,
Parviz



On Fri, Oct 31, 2014 at 6:39 AM, Thomas D. Nadeau <tnadeau@lucidvision.com> wrote:

Rather than dropping a big list of models he= re for =E2=80=9Coptional reading=E2=80=9D, it might help if you explain the= context and why people might spend time reviewing these.

It should be pointed out tha= t SUPA is not an IETF WG, so understanding where this fits into the univers= e and why its relevant would be helpful.

=E2=80=94Tom


=
On Oct 31, 2= 014:5:12 AM, at 5:12 AM, Tina TSOU <Tina.Tsou.Zouting@huawei.com> wrote:
Dear all,

Some SUPA drafts related to YANG model = for your reading pleasure and comments.

More context could be found at

Document=C2=A0 Title=C2=A0 Date=C2=A0 Status=C2=A0 IPR=C2=A0 AD / Shepherd=C2=A0
Active Internet-Drafts=
draft-b= i-supa-gap-analysis-00 Shared Unified Policy = Automation (SUPA) Gap Analysis 201= 4-09-25 I-D Exists
draft-bi-supa= -sdsavi-00 A SUPA Use Case for SA= VI 201= 4-09-26 I-D Exists
dra= ft-cheng-supa-ddc-use-cases-01 Use Cases for Distribu= ted Data Center Applications in SUPA 201= 4-10-27 I-D Exists
<= font>draft-contreras-supa-yang-network-topo-01 A YANG Data Model for = Network Topologies 201= 4-10-27 I-D Exists
draft-karagiannis-supa-problem-statement-02 Problem Statement for = Shared Unified Policy Automation (SUPA) 201= 4-10-27 I-D Exists
dra= ft-pentikousis-supa-mapping-00 SUPA Configuration and= Policy Mapping 201= 4-09-23 I-D Exists
dr= aft-sun-supa-openv6-use-cases-00 Use case of IPv6 trans= ition in SUPA 201= 4-09-25 I-D Exists
<= font>draft-zaalouk-supa-configuration-model-01 YANG Data Model for Co= nfiguration of Shared Unified Policy Automation (SUPA) 201= 4-10-27 I-D Exists
draft= -zhou-supa-architecture-00 The Architecture for S= hared Unified Policy Automation (SUPA) 201= 4-10-27 I-D Exists


Thank you,
Tina
_______________________________________________
netmod mailing list
<= a href=3D"mailto:netmod@ietf.org" target=3D"_blank">netmod@ietf.org
= = https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/netmod


___________________________________= ____________
Supa mailing list
Supa@ietf.org
ht= tps://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/supa




--
Dr. Parviz Yegani
(4= 08) 759-1973 mobile
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ESMTP; 03 Nov 2014 08:31:01 +0000 Received: from xhc-aln-x08.cisco.com (xhc-aln-x08.cisco.com [173.36.12.82]) by rcdn-core-2.cisco.com (8.14.5/8.14.5) with ESMTP id sA38V1Gb009995 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=AES128-SHA bits=128 verify=FAIL); Mon, 3 Nov 2014 08:31:01 GMT Received: from xmb-aln-x15.cisco.com ([169.254.9.27]) by xhc-aln-x08.cisco.com ([173.36.12.82]) with mapi id 14.03.0195.001; Mon, 3 Nov 2014 02:31:00 -0600 From: "Prabhakara Yellai (pyellai)" To: Andy Bierman , "Ambika Prasad Tripathy (ambtripa)" Thread-Topic: [netmod] YANG model containing both device and domain config Thread-Index: AQHP9NcijP4XoW98IkissLIBTLmW7pxKGtSAgAAB7ACAAC6HAIAABL2AgAAGbgCAABq9AIAALocAgAGdxoCAAAslAIACS+Fw Date: Mon, 3 Nov 2014 08:31:00 +0000 Message-ID: <906EB76B657DBD4D84BC173C23993276809F59C3@xmb-aln-x15.cisco.com> References: <3B675C3A8DF102408C754E30986E43CF05CE77E9@xmb-aln-x08.cisco.com> <3B675C3A8DF102408C754E30986E43CF05CE789B@xmb-aln-x08.cisco.com> <20141031101045.GA2139@elstar.local> <3B675C3A8DF102408C754E30986E43CF05CE78D5@xmb-aln-x08.cisco.com> <20141031120930.GA2576@elstar.local> <3B675C3A8DF102408C754E30986E43CF05CF43DC@xmb-aln-x08.cisco.com> In-Reply-To: Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-originating-ip: [10.142.109.109] Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 MIME-Version: 1.0 Archived-At: http://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/netmod/msmQ71TMyXlpyCd5_WYjv3LndeE Cc: "netmod@ietf.org" Subject: Re: [netmod] YANG model containing both device and domain config X-BeenThere: netmod@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: NETMOD WG list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 03 Nov 2014 08:31:05 -0000 SGkgQW5keSwNCj4gSSBzdXBwb3NlIGxhcmdlIHJvdXRlcnMgaGF2ZSB0aGUgaG9yc2Vwb3dlciB0 byBwdW1wIG91dCB0aGVpciBJRiBzdGF0cyBjb25zdGFudGx5LCBidXQgd2h5IG5vdCBqdXN0IHVz 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http://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/netmod/-a9Y6hkNjwbdCsnxNwrURoCGajQ Subject: [netmod] Specification on netconf modifications to xpath filtering X-BeenThere: netmod@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: NETMOD WG list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 03 Nov 2014 13:20:08 -0000 --001a11398cb072f7080506f434cf Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Hi folks, I was looking into the xpath filtering capabilities in netconf, especially the part in Section 8.9.5.1 ( https://tools.ietf.org/html/rfc6241#section-8.9.5.1) ===Question 1=== The RFC reads: All ancestor nodes of the result node MUST be encoded first, so the element returned in the reply contains only fully specified subtrees, according to the underlying data model. How does this interact with XPATH union? For example, if we had a data model: list top { leaf server-id; leaf user-count; list user { key name; leaf name; } } If I would like to select any user whose name is Fred and include the server they are on as well as the user-count on those servers, I would use XPATH query filter such as the following: Say the node set returned by the XPATH result is the following: myServer1 99 fred myServer3 123 fred According to the NETCONF modification, the ancestor nodes of each node in this node set will be encoded first, meaning the returned XML contains only fully specified subtrees. "For each such subtree, the path from the data model root node down to the subtree, including any elements or attributes necessary to uniquely identify the subtree, are included in the response message." (Sec 8.9.1) I see two options depending on how this modification process is evaluated in netconf: Option 1: each node/subtree in the node set is evaluated individually and produced the following output: myServer1 99 fred myServer3 123 fred Option 2: each node is put into context of the data model, and yields the following output: myServer1 99 fred myServer3 123 fred Which one would NETCONF server produce? ===Question 2=== The second paragraph reads: If any sibling or ancestor nodes of the result node are needed to identify a particular instance within a conceptual data structure, then these nodes MUST also be encoded in the response. I was wondering how a server would know whether a node is needed to "identify the instance within a conceptual data structure," i.e. is there a detailed specification for that (other than the key of a list)? Thank you! Xiao --001a11398cb072f7080506f434cf Content-Type: text/html; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Hi folks,

I was looking into the xpath = filtering capabilities in netconf, especially the part in Section 8.9.5.1 (= https://tools.ietf.org/html/rfc6241#section-8.9.5.1)
<= br>
=3D=3D=3DQuestion 1=3D=3D=3D
The RFC reads: All anc= estor nodes of the result node MUST be encoded first, so the <data> e= lement returned in the reply contains only fully specified subtrees, accord= ing to the underlying data model.

How does this in= teract with XPATH union?

For example, if we had a = data model:
list top {
=C2=A0 leaf server-id;
=C2=A0 leaf user-count;
=C2=A0 list user {
=C2=A0 =C2= =A0 key name;
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 leaf name;
=C2=A0 }
}

If I would like to select any user whose = name is Fred and include the server they are on as well as the user-count o= n those servers, I would use XPATH query filter such as the following:

<rpc message-id=3D"101"
= =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0xmlns=3D"urn:ietf:params:xml:ns:netconf:base:1.0&q= uot;>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 <get-config>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0= =C2=A0 =C2=A0 <source>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 = =C2=A0 <running/>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 </source&g= t;
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 <filter xmlns:t=3D"http://example.com/schema/1.2/con= fig"
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 = =C2=A0 type=3D"xpath"
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2= =A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 select=3D"/t:top/t:user[t:name=3D'fred= 9;]/../server-id | /t:top/t:users/t:user[t:name=3D'fred']/../user-c= ount | /t:top/t:users/t:user[t:name=3D'fred']"/>
= =C2=A0 =C2=A0 </get-config>
</rpc>
Say the node set returned by the XPATH result is the following= :
<server-id>myServer1</server-id>
<= ;user-count>99</user-count>
<user><name>fred= </name></user>
<server-id>myServer3</server-= id>
<user-count>123</user-count>
<use= r><name>fred</name></user>

<= div>According to the NETCONF modification, the ancestor nodes of each node = in this node set will be encoded first, meaning the returned XML contains o= nly fully specified subtrees. "For each such subtree, the path from th= e data model root node down to the subtree, including any elements or attri= butes necessary to uniquely identify the subtree, are included in the respo= nse message." (Sec 8.9.1)

I see two options d= epending on how this modification process is evaluated in netconf:
Option 1: each node/subtree in the node set is evaluated individually and= produced the following output:
<top><server-id>= myServer1</server-id></top>
<top><user-count= >99</user-count></top>
<top><user><= name>fred</name></user></top>
<top><= ;server-id>myServer3</server-id></top>
<top>= <user-count>123</user-count></top>
<top>&= lt;user><name>fred</name></user></top>

Option 2: each node is put into context of the data m= odel, and yields the following output:
<top>
=C2=A0 <server-id>myServer1</server-id>
=C2=A0 <u= ser-count>99</user-count>
=C2=A0 <user><name>= ;fred</name></user>
</top>
<top>= ;
=C2=A0 <server-id>myServer3</server-id>
= =C2=A0 <user-count>123</user-count>
=C2=A0 <user&g= t;<name>fred</name></user>
</top>

Which one would NETCONF server produce?
<= br>
=3D=3D=3DQuestion 2=3D=3D=3D
The second paragraph r= eads: If any sibling or ancestor nodes of the result node are needed to ide= ntify a particular instance within a conceptual data structure, then these = nodes MUST also be encoded in the response.

I was = wondering how a server would know whether a node is needed to "identif= y the instance within a conceptual data structure," i.e. is there a de= tailed specification for that (other than the key of a list)?
Thank you!
Xiao
--001a11398cb072f7080506f434cf-- From nobody Mon Nov 3 08:37:21 2014 Return-Path: X-Original-To: netmod@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: netmod@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1D13B1A07BC for ; Mon, 3 Nov 2014 08:37:18 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -15.095 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-15.095 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_HI=-5, RP_MATCHES_RCVD=-0.594, SPF_PASS=-0.001, USER_IN_DEF_DKIM_WL=-7.5] autolearn=ham Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 9RRVy2YXT2GU for ; Mon, 3 Nov 2014 08:37:16 -0800 (PST) Received: from alln-iport-7.cisco.com (alln-iport-7.cisco.com [173.37.142.94]) (using TLSv1 with cipher RC4-SHA (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by 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+0000 Received: from xhc-rcd-x13.cisco.com (xhc-rcd-x13.cisco.com [173.37.183.87]) by alln-core-2.cisco.com (8.14.5/8.14.5) with ESMTP id sA3GbFRV012660 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=AES128-SHA bits=128 verify=FAIL); Mon, 3 Nov 2014 16:37:15 GMT Received: from xmb-aln-x11.cisco.com ([169.254.6.106]) by xhc-rcd-x13.cisco.com ([173.37.183.87]) with mapi id 14.03.0195.001; Mon, 3 Nov 2014 10:37:14 -0600 From: "Eric Voit (evoit)" To: Qin Wu , Andy Bierman , "Ambika Prasad Tripathy (ambtripa)" Thread-Topic: [netmod] YANG model containing both device and domain config Thread-Index: AQHP9Ncc0r5QzlOUmUKJvUWcHn/dupxKGtSAgAAB7ACAAC6HAIAABL2AgAAGbgCAABq9AIAALocAgAGdxoCAAAslAP//11BwgAKGV4CAAFFhQA== Date: Mon, 3 Nov 2014 16:37:14 +0000 Message-ID: References: <3B675C3A8DF102408C754E30986E43CF05CE77E9@xmb-aln-x08.cisco.com> <3B675C3A8DF102408C754E30986E43CF05CE789B@xmb-aln-x08.cisco.com> <20141031101045.GA2139@elstar.local> <3B675C3A8DF102408C754E30986E43CF05CE78D5@xmb-aln-x08.cisco.com> 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<3B675C3A8DF102408C754E30986E43CF05CE78D5@xmb-aln-x08.cisco.com> <20141031120930.GA2576@elstar.local> <3B675C3A8DF102408C754E30986E43CF05CF43DC@xmb-aln-x08.cisco.com> <906EB76B657DBD4D84BC173C23993276809F59C3@xmb-aln-x15.cisco.com> In-Reply-To: <906EB76B657DBD4D84BC173C23993276809F59C3@xmb-aln-x15.cisco.com> Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-originating-ip: [10.154.204.133] Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 MIME-Version: 1.0 Archived-At: http://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/netmod/ZY7lkrDGzG4nzitYSRZdKeUkRqY Cc: "netmod@ietf.org" Subject: Re: [netmod] YANG model containing both device and domain config X-BeenThere: netmod@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: NETMOD WG list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 03 Nov 2014 20:48:21 -0000 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-0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.485 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.485 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RP_MATCHES_RCVD=-0.594, SPF_HELO_PASS=-0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, T_REMOTE_IMAGE=0.01] autolearn=ham Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 9Z07xF5hu7tV; Tue, 4 Nov 2014 02:55:20 -0800 (PST) Received: from lucidvision.com (lucidvision.com [72.71.250.34]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id C84631A1A4C; Tue, 4 Nov 2014 02:55:19 -0800 (PST) Received: from [172.16.19.11] (unknown [193.108.21.19]) by lucidvision.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id E746A28F991E; Tue, 4 Nov 2014 05:55:16 -0500 (EST) Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="Apple-Mail=_6DFE0DFF-B97F-4BF3-ADB0-E2864540F20B" Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 8.0 \(1990.1\)) From: "Thomas D. Nadeau" In-Reply-To: Date: Tue, 4 Nov 2014 11:55:17 +0100 Message-Id: <0675EEBA-11C2-40CF-87A2-0CAFF260DEA5@lucidvision.com> References: <2BDFF8E6-A722-48D8-B4CE-9F3229B0196F@lucidvision.com> To: Parviz Yegani X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.1990.1) Archived-At: http://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/netmod/k55aGnawm9f0K7xcPLsa7ACJW1M Cc: "netmod@ietf.org" , "supa@ietf.org" Subject: Re: [netmod] [Supa] SUPA drafts related to YANG model X-BeenThere: netmod@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: NETMOD WG list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 04 Nov 2014 10:55:23 -0000 --Apple-Mail=_6DFE0DFF-B97F-4BF3-ADB0-E2864540F20B Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 > On Nov 3, 2014:6:29 AM, at 6:29 AM, Parviz Yegani = wrote: >=20 > (I'm receiving Tom's email after 2 days;) Don't know why? >=20 > Hello, Tom, >=20 > You may want to have a look at the proposed charter and the problem = statement of SUPA/YMCA. The charter should be available online. You may = find it interesting. If you want we can talk about it during the IETF = meeting (peharps during coffee break). Your point is well-taken and yes, = it's important that the folks who are interested in participating in = SUPA discussions adhere to the IETF guidelines. We're going to have a = Bar BoF in Honolulu. Hope you can join.=20 Its not me that needs to find it interesting, but the NETMOD WG. = *) Thanks for posting the references. =E2=80=94Tom >=20 > Thanks, > Parviz >=20 >=20 >=20 > On Fri, Oct 31, 2014 at 6:39 AM, Thomas D. Nadeau = > wrote: >=20 > Rather than dropping a big list of models here for =E2=80=9Coption= al reading=E2=80=9D, it might help if you explain the context and why = people might spend time reviewing these. >=20 > It should be pointed out that SUPA is not an IETF WG, so = understanding where this fits into the universe and why its relevant = would be helpful. >=20 > =E2=80=94Tom >=20 >=20 >=20 >> On Oct 31, 2014:5:12 AM, at 5:12 AM, Tina TSOU = > = wrote: >>=20 >> Dear all, >>=20 >> Some SUPA drafts related to YANG model for your reading pleasure and = comments. >> = http://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-contreras-supa-yang-network-topo/ = >> = http://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-zaalouk-supa-configuration-model/ = >>=20 >> More context could be found at >> = http://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/search/?name=3DSupa&rfcs=3Don&activedrafts= =3Don&sort=3D&by=3Dauthor&author=3D = >>=20 >> Document=C2=A0 = Title=C2=A0 = Date=C2=A0 = Status=C2=A0 = IPR = AD / Shepherd=C2=A0 = >> Active Internet-Drafts >> draft-bi-supa-gap-analysis-00 = Shared = Unified Policy Automation (SUPA) Gap Analysis 2014-09-25 I-D = Exists =09 >> draft-bi-supa-sdsavi-00 = A SUPA Use Case = for SAVI 2014-09-26 I-D Exists =09 >> draft-cheng-supa-ddc-use-cases-01 = = Use Cases for Distributed Data Center Applications in SUPA = 2014-10-27 >> new = = I-D Exists =09 >> draft-contreras-supa-yang-network-topo-01 = = A YANG Data Model for Network Topologies 2014-10-27 >> new = I-D Exists =09 >> draft-karagiannis-supa-problem-statement-02 = Problem Statement for Shared Unified Policy Automation (SUPA) = 2014-10-27 >> new = I-D Exists =09 >> draft-pentikousis-supa-mapping-00 = = SUPA Configuration and Policy Mapping 2014-09-23 I-D Exists = =09 >> draft-sun-supa-openv6-use-cases-00 = = Use case of IPv6 transition in SUPA 2014-09-25 I-D Exists = =09 >> draft-zaalouk-supa-configuration-model-01 = = YANG Data Model for Configuration of Shared Unified Policy Automation = (SUPA) 2014-10-27 >> new = I-D Exists =09 >> draft-zhou-supa-architecture-00 = The = Architecture for Shared Unified Policy Automation (SUPA) = 2014-10-27 >> new = = I-D Exists =09 >>=20 >>=20 >> Thank you, >> Tina >> _______________________________________________ >> netmod mailing list >> netmod@ietf.org >> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/netmod = >=20 >=20 > _______________________________________________ > Supa mailing list > Supa@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/supa = >=20 >=20 >=20 >=20 > --=20 > Dr. Parviz Yegani > (408) 759-1973 mobile > pyegani@gmail.com --Apple-Mail=_6DFE0DFF-B97F-4BF3-ADB0-E2864540F20B Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/html; charset=utf-8
On Nov 3, 2014:6:29 AM, at 6:29 AM, Parviz Yegani <pyegani@gmail.com> = wrote:

(I'm receiving Tom's email after 2 days;) Don't = know why?

Hello, = Tom,

You may = want to have a look at the proposed charter and the problem statement of = SUPA/YMCA. The charter should be available online. You may find it = interesting. If you want we can talk about it during the IETF meeting = (peharps during coffee break). Your point is well-taken and yes, it's = important that the folks who are interested in participating in SUPA = discussions adhere to the IETF guidelines. We're going to have a Bar BoF = in Honolulu. Hope you can = join. 

Its not = me that needs to find it interesting, but the NETMOD WG. *)  Thanks = for posting the references.

= =E2=80=94Tom



Thanks,
Parviz



On Fri, Oct 31, 2014 at 6:39 AM, = Thomas D. Nadeau <tnadeau@lucidvision.com> wrote:

= Rather than dropping a big list of models here for =E2=80=9Coptiona= l reading=E2=80=9D, it might help if you explain the context and why = people might spend time reviewing these.

It should be pointed out that SUPA is not an IETF = WG, so understanding where this fits into the universe and why its = relevant would be helpful.

=E2=80=94Tom



On Oct 31, 2014:5:12 AM, at = 5:12 AM, Tina TSOU <Tina.Tsou.Zouting@huawei.com> = wrote:

Dear = all,

Some SUPA = drafts related to YANG model for your reading pleasure and = comments.
http://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-contreras-supa-yang-netwo= rk-topo/
http://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-zaalouk-supa-configuratio= n-model/

More context could be found at
http://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/search/?name=3DSupa&rfcs=3D= on&activedrafts=3Don&sort=3D&by=3Dauthor&author=3D

Document  Title  Date  Status  IPR  AD / = Shepherd 
Active = Internet-Drafts
draft-bi-supa-gap-analysis-00 Shared = Unified Policy Automation (SUPA) Gap Analysis 2014-09-25 I-D = Exists
draft-bi-supa-sdsavi-00 A SUPA = Use Case for SAVI 2014-09-26 I-D = Exists
draft-cheng-supa-ddc-use-cases-01 Use = Cases for Distributed Data Center Applications in SUPA 2014-10-27
= new
 I-D = Exists
draft-contreras-supa-yang-network-topo-01 A YANG = Data Model for Network Topologies 2014-10-27
= new
 I-D = Exists
draft-karagiannis-supa-problem-statement-02 Problem = Statement for Shared Unified Policy Automation (SUPA) 2014-10-27
= new
 I-D = Exists
draft-pentikousis-supa-mapping-00 SUPA = Configuration and Policy Mapping 2014-09-23 I-D = Exists
draft-sun-supa-openv6-use-cases-00 Use case = of IPv6 transition in SUPA 2014-09-25 I-D = Exists
draft-zaalouk-supa-configuration-model-01 YANG = Data Model for Configuration of Shared Unified Policy Automation = (SUPA) 2014-10-27
= new
 I-D = Exists
draft-zhou-supa-architecture-00 The = Architecture for Shared Unified Policy Automation (SUPA) 2014-10-27
= new
 I-D = Exists


Thank you,
Tina
_______________________________________________
netmod = mailing list
netmod@ietf.org
https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/netmod


_______________________________________________
Supa mailing list
Supa@ietf.org
https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/supa




--
Dr. = Parviz Yegani
(408) 759-1973 mobile
pyegani@gmail.com

= --Apple-Mail=_6DFE0DFF-B97F-4BF3-ADB0-E2864540F20B-- From nobody Tue Nov 4 04:34:32 2014 Return-Path: X-Original-To: netmod@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: netmod@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5FE441A0861 for ; Tue, 4 Nov 2014 04:34:31 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -4.201 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-4.201 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-2.3, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id k5kZFJ5UP4Zh for ; Tue, 4 Nov 2014 04:34:29 -0800 (PST) Received: from sessmg23.ericsson.net (sessmg23.ericsson.net [193.180.251.45]) (using TLSv1 with cipher DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 5774A1A00D8 for ; Tue, 4 Nov 2014 04:34:29 -0800 (PST) X-AuditID: c1b4fb2d-f79fc6d000001087-a8-5458c7d2d3ab Received: from ESESSHC012.ericsson.se (Unknown_Domain [153.88.253.124]) by sessmg23.ericsson.net (Symantec Mail Security) with SMTP id 33.4A.04231.2D7C8545; Tue, 4 Nov 2014 13:34:27 +0100 (CET) Received: from [159.107.197.98] (153.88.183.153) by smtp.internal.ericsson.com (153.88.183.56) with Microsoft SMTP Server id 14.3.174.1; Tue, 4 Nov 2014 13:34:26 +0100 Message-ID: <5458C7D2.5000001@ericsson.com> Date: Tue, 4 Nov 2014 13:34:26 +0100 From: Balazs Lengyel User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 6.1; WOW64; rv:24.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/24.6.0 MIME-Version: 1.0 To: "netmod@ietf.org" Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1"; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Brightmail-Tracker: H4sIAAAAAAAAA+NgFvrOJMWRmVeSWpSXmKPExsUyM+Jvje7l4xEhBjO3cFnMv9jI6sDosWTJ T6YAxigum5TUnMyy1CJ9uwSujEdXvjMWzGWpWNtzmK2B8RNTFyMHh4SAicSEXY5djJxAppjE hXvr2boYuTiEBI4wSnz/cY4FwlnNKDHtyHp2kCpeAW2JjgkbWEBsFgEViSnTrrKC2GwCRhJT +8+DxUUFoiTuXOpnhagXlDg58wlYXERAXWLmTpANnBzCAjYSVy+1g9nMArYSF+ZcZ4Gw5SW2 v53DDGILCWhIPLzwl3UCI98sJKNmIWmZhaRlASPzKkbR4tTi4tx0I2O91KLM5OLi/Dy9vNSS TYzAkDq45bfuDsbVrx0PMQpwMCrx8Bo4RoQIsSaWFVfmHmKU5mBREudddG5esJBAemJJanZq akFqUXxRaU5q8SFGJg5OqQbG4qkXC9ezuCd++b9/5p2rQRPTpkvNfr4+9O2BPTGiK29dOHah NJFv1/FTrubRHpPmTXFe4HSyda6dkd+U7OmldZZcNpZ/jy97fy4+/NK1/19yHTblFSWolUb8 9eTRrAybu71of0jK5eCvB1YuCo8Jj4pffWWi7J75Ju88F96rmOJz7UBzovO270osxRmJhlrM RcWJAOqDNrMKAgAA Archived-At: http://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/netmod/rBY-AxCSiZc5q-VqegTsQVW1U98 Subject: [netmod] Multiple replace operations on a YANG 1.1 leaf-list X-BeenThere: netmod@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: NETMOD WG list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 04 Nov 2014 12:34:31 -0000 Hello, yang-version 1; leaf-list foo { type string; } Initially foo = [a,b] a a Is this allowed? IMHO yes and the result will be foo = [b,a] Agree? regards Balazs -- Balazs Lengyel Ericsson Hungary Ltd. Senior Specialist ECN: 831 7320 Tel: +36-1-437-7320 Mobile: +36-70-330-7909 email: Balazs.Lengyel@ericsson.com From nobody Tue Nov 4 05:34:40 2014 Return-Path: X-Original-To: netmod@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: netmod@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 063841A1B35 for ; Tue, 4 Nov 2014 05:34:40 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.495 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.495 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, RP_MATCHES_RCVD=-0.594, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 6znjVMT6gZ0q for ; Tue, 4 Nov 2014 05:34:38 -0800 (PST) Received: from mail.tail-f.com (mail.tail-f.com [83.241.162.140]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id B2C431A1B2F for ; Tue, 4 Nov 2014 05:34:38 -0800 (PST) Received: from localhost (173-38-208-169.cisco.com [173.38.208.169]) by mail.tail-f.com (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id AF23C1280983; Tue, 4 Nov 2014 14:34:34 +0100 (CET) Date: Tue, 04 Nov 2014 14:34:34 +0100 (CET) Message-Id: <20141104.143434.799725916411839357.mbj@tail-f.com> To: balazs.lengyel@ericsson.com From: Martin Bjorklund In-Reply-To: <5458C7D2.5000001@ericsson.com> References: <5458C7D2.5000001@ericsson.com> X-Mailer: Mew version 6.5 on Emacs 23.4 / Mule 6.0 (HANACHIRUSATO) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: Text/Plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Archived-At: http://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/netmod/12b07OCUDUxx59g159iHQF2PF0E Cc: netmod@ietf.org Subject: Re: [netmod] Multiple replace operations on a YANG 1.1 leaf-list X-BeenThere: netmod@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: NETMOD WG list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 04 Nov 2014 13:34:40 -0000 Balazs Lengyel wrote: > Hello, > yang-version 1; > leaf-list foo { > type string; > } I assume you meant ordered-by user as well. > Initially foo = [a,b] > > > > a > a > > > > Is this allowed? IMHO yes and the result will be foo = [b,a] > Agree? No, the result would be: foo = [a,b] The replace operation is a no-op since it 'a' already exists. /martin From nobody Tue Nov 4 07:03:53 2014 Return-Path: X-Original-To: netmod@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: netmod@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id E7D1F1A896B for ; Tue, 4 Nov 2014 07:03:50 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.496 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.496 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, RP_MATCHES_RCVD=-0.594, SPF_HELO_PASS=-0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id YZGu-vMbzBBe for ; Tue, 4 Nov 2014 07:03:49 -0800 (PST) Received: from lucidvision.com (lucidvision.com [72.71.250.34]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id AA4841A8910 for ; Tue, 4 Nov 2014 07:03:48 -0800 (PST) Received: from [172.16.19.11] (unknown [193.108.21.20]) by lucidvision.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9CC7828FA531; Tue, 4 Nov 2014 10:03:44 -0500 (EST) From: "Thomas D. Nadeau" Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Date: Tue, 4 Nov 2014 16:03:35 +0100 Message-Id: To: NETMOD Working Group Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 8.0 \(1990.1\)) X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.1990.1) Archived-At: http://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/netmod/j3DpzlSEK-uM9ICiDTFb80YUYxQ Cc: netmod-chairs@tools.ietf.org Subject: [netmod] current IETF91 Netmod Preliminary Agenda X-BeenThere: netmod@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: NETMOD WG list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 04 Nov 2014 15:03:51 -0000 This is the current agenda I have to-date. Are there any other = requests for discussion slots? --Tom Peer Mount Discussion/drafts 15 min Eric Voit = evoit@cisco.com = http://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-voit-netmod-peer-mount-requirements/= =E2=80=9CDesign Teams=E2=80=9D update. 10 min = jason.sterne@alcatel-lucent.com o List of all known =E2=80=9Cdesign teams=E2=80=9D = that are working on=20 YANG models (especially ones that may be =09= progressing outside of the IETF mailing lists) =09 o Ideally a brief status update from one of the = primary=20 leaders/contributors (i.e. a few bullet points / = 1-2 minutes)=20 for each one (not to discuss the technical = details of specific=20 models =E2=80=93 that could be other agenda = items) YANG conformance issues. 10 min Andy Bierman Andy = Bierman = http://www.ietf.org/id/draft-bierman-netmod-yang-conformance-04.txt draft-ietf-netmod-routing-cfg-16 5 Lada = Lhotka lhotka@nic.cz draft-ietf-netmod-yang-json-01 5 Lada = Lhotka lhotka@nic.cz draft-lhotka-netmod-yang-metadata-00 5 Lada = Lhotka lhotka@nic.cz Dana Blair dblair@cisco.com =09 Dean Bogdanovic deanb@juniper.net 10 ACL Yang = Model Mahesh Jethanandani mjethanandani@gmail.com 10 BFD Yang = Model =09 From nobody Tue Nov 4 08:14:17 2014 Return-Path: X-Original-To: netmod@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: netmod@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id EF0421A1A71; Tue, 4 Nov 2014 08:14:13 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -15.084 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-15.084 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_HI=-5, RP_MATCHES_RCVD=-0.594, SPF_PASS=-0.001, T_REMOTE_IMAGE=0.01, USER_IN_DEF_DKIM_WL=-7.5] autolearn=ham Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id Pe6pWv4I8liG; Tue, 4 Nov 2014 08:14:10 -0800 (PST) Received: from aer-iport-4.cisco.com (aer-iport-4.cisco.com [173.38.203.54]) (using TLSv1 with cipher RC4-SHA (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id F06A81A8F42; Tue, 4 Nov 2014 08:14:08 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/simple; d=cisco.com; i=@cisco.com; l=67103; q=dns/txt; s=iport; t=1415117649; x=1416327249; h=message-id:date:from:mime-version:to:cc:subject: references:in-reply-to; bh=/ZcdJb7rYm7k8GD1LiynRvELXl0XqMmZKT8+ACotqYw=; b=WeP4xH1BBeIYpyVZDqIDOTqISgYOFhxfyT3XQPQxGa5c3Qh3fLa1zlEh u64zGxKE3+YQVrV23ywUNSC+uPANt6c56WmZD46coBdTXFpVig8mpQhPW QXQJkXq7emts/Dn/Rlbb8UTiT+S0s9eQtqVKlp9ipVWa5j6CkQqIHe9dq k=; X-IronPort-Anti-Spam-Filtered: true X-IronPort-Anti-Spam-Result: ArcEAGv6WFStJssW/2dsb2JhbABZA4JIgRpTBc5XAQ2GdVQCgTgBAQEBAX2EAwEBBAEBAWsKARALEgYJFgEBBgcJAwIBAgEPBh8DDgYBDAEFAgEBBYgjAxIIBccCDYYpAQEBAQEBAQEBAQEBAQEBAQEBAQEBF4FEjRKBWBEBQBAHEYJ4gUIFlm+Bd4MQghGBMT2GBodrgmeECYN5PC8BgQ6BPAEBAQ X-IronPort-AV: E=Sophos;i="5.07,313,1413244800"; d="scan'208,217";a="230780977" Received: from aer-iport-nat.cisco.com (HELO aer-core-4.cisco.com) ([173.38.203.22]) by aer-iport-4.cisco.com with ESMTP; 04 Nov 2014 16:14:06 +0000 Received: from [10.60.67.84] (ams-bclaise-8913.cisco.com [10.60.67.84]) by aer-core-4.cisco.com (8.14.5/8.14.5) with ESMTP id sA4GE1ni008388; Tue, 4 Nov 2014 16:14:05 GMT Message-ID: <5458FB49.1030103@cisco.com> Date: Tue, 04 Nov 2014 17:14:01 +0100 From: Benoit Claise User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 6.1; WOW64; rv:24.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/24.7.0 MIME-Version: 1.0 To: "Thomas D. Nadeau" , Parviz Yegani References: <2BDFF8E6-A722-48D8-B4CE-9F3229B0196F@lucidvision.com> <0675EEBA-11C2-40CF-87A2-0CAFF260DEA5@lucidvision.com> In-Reply-To: <0675EEBA-11C2-40CF-87A2-0CAFF260DEA5@lucidvision.com> Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="------------090604000402020601010302" Archived-At: http://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/netmod/hPt7vtU16_bPuN4fhtxZlukjM9w Cc: "supa@ietf.org" , "netmod@ietf.org" Subject: Re: [netmod] [Supa] SUPA drafts related to YANG model X-BeenThere: netmod@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: NETMOD WG list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 04 Nov 2014 16:14:14 -0000 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --------------090604000402020601010302 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Proposal: let's have the SUPA discussion on the SUPA mailing list, and let's avoid double-posting. Regards, Benoit > >> On Nov 3, 2014:6:29 AM, at 6:29 AM, Parviz Yegani > > wrote: >> >> (I'm receiving Tom's email after 2 days;) Don't know why? >> >> Hello, Tom, >> >> You may want to have a look at the proposed charter and the problem >> statement of SUPA/YMCA. The charter should be available online. You >> may find it interesting. If you want we can talk about it during the >> IETF meeting (peharps during coffee break). Your point is well-taken >> and yes, it's important that the folks who are interested in >> participating in SUPA discussions adhere to the IETF guidelines. >> We're going to have a Bar BoF in Honolulu. Hope you can join. > > Its not me that needs to find it interesting, but the NETMOD WG. *) > Thanks for posting the references. > > ---Tom > > >> >> Thanks, >> Parviz >> >> >> >> On Fri, Oct 31, 2014 at 6:39 AM, Thomas D. Nadeau >> > wrote: >> >> >> Rather than dropping a big list of models here for "optional >> reading", it might help if you explain the context and why people >> might spend time reviewing these. >> >> It should be pointed out that SUPA is not an IETF WG, so >> understanding where this fits into the universe and why its >> relevant would be helpful. >> >> ---Tom >> >> >> >>> On Oct 31, 2014:5:12 AM, at 5:12 AM, Tina TSOU >>> >> > wrote: >>> >>> Dear all, >>> >>> Some SUPA drafts related to YANG model for your reading pleasure >>> and comments. >>> http://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-contreras-supa-yang-network-topo/ >>> http://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-zaalouk-supa-configuration-model/ >>> >>> More context could be found at >>> http://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/search/?name=Supa&rfcs=on&activedrafts=on&sort=&by=author&author= >>> >>> Document >>> >>> Title >>> >>> Date >>> >>> Status >>> >>> IPR >>> >>> AD / Shepherd >>> >>> >>> Active Internet-Drafts >>> draft-bi-supa-gap-analysis-00 >>> >>> Shared Unified Policy Automation (SUPA) Gap Analysis >>> 2014-09-25 I-D Exists >>> >>> >>> draft-bi-supa-sdsavi-00 >>> A SUPA >>> Use Case for SAVI 2014-09-26 I-D Exists >>> >>> >>> draft-cheng-supa-ddc-use-cases-01 >>> >>> Use Cases for Distributed Data Center Applications in SUPA >>> 2014-10-27 >>> new >>> >>> I-D Exists >>> >>> >>> draft-contreras-supa-yang-network-topo-01 >>> >>> A YANG Data Model for Network Topologies 2014-10-27 >>> new >>> >>> I-D Exists >>> >>> >>> draft-karagiannis-supa-problem-statement-02 >>> >>> Problem Statement for Shared Unified Policy Automation (SUPA) >>> 2014-10-27 >>> new >>> >>> I-D Exists >>> >>> >>> draft-pentikousis-supa-mapping-00 >>> >>> SUPA Configuration and Policy Mapping 2014-09-23 I-D Exists >>> >>> >>> draft-sun-supa-openv6-use-cases-00 >>> >>> Use case of IPv6 transition in SUPA 2014-09-25 I-D Exists >>> >>> >>> draft-zaalouk-supa-configuration-model-01 >>> >>> YANG Data Model for Configuration of Shared Unified Policy >>> Automation (SUPA) 2014-10-27 >>> new >>> >>> I-D Exists >>> >>> >>> draft-zhou-supa-architecture-00 >>> The >>> Architecture for Shared Unified Policy Automation (SUPA) >>> 2014-10-27 >>> new >>> >>> I-D Exists >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> Thank you, >>> Tina >>> _______________________________________________ >>> netmod mailing list >>> netmod@ietf.org >>> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/netmod >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Supa mailing list >> Supa@ietf.org >> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/supa >> >> >> >> >> -- >> Dr. Parviz Yegani >> (408) 759-1973 mobile >> pyegani@gmail.com > > > > _______________________________________________ > Supa mailing list > Supa@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/supa --------------090604000402020601010302 Content-Type: text/html; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
Proposal: let's have the SUPA discussion on the SUPA mailing list, and let's avoid double-posting.

Regards, Benoit

On Nov 3, 2014:6:29 AM, at 6:29 AM, Parviz Yegani <pyegani@gmail.com> wrote:

(I'm receiving Tom's email after 2 days;) Don't know why?

Hello, Tom,

You may want to have a look at the proposed charter and the problem statement of SUPA/YMCA. The charter should be available online. You may find it interesting. If you want we can talk about it during the IETF meeting (peharps during coffee break). Your point is well-taken and yes, it's important that the folks who are interested in participating in SUPA discussions adhere to the IETF guidelines. We're going to have a Bar BoF in Honolulu. Hope you can join. 

Its not me that needs to find it interesting, but the NETMOD WG. *)  Thanks for posting the references.

—Tom



Thanks,
Parviz



On Fri, Oct 31, 2014 at 6:39 AM, Thomas D. Nadeau <tnadeau@lucidvision.com> wrote:

Rather than dropping a big list of models here for “optional reading”, it might help if you explain the context and why people might spend time reviewing these.

It should be pointed out that SUPA is not an IETF WG, so understanding where this fits into the universe and why its relevant would be helpful.

—Tom



On Oct 31, 2014:5:12 AM, at 5:12 AM, Tina TSOU <Tina.Tsou.Zouting@huawei.com> wrote:

Dear all,

Some SUPA drafts related to YANG model for your reading pleasure and comments.

More context could be found at

Document  Title  Date  Status  IPR  AD / Shepherd 
Active Internet-Drafts
draft-bi-supa-gap-analysis-00 Shared Unified Policy Automation (SUPA) Gap Analysis 2014-09-25 I-D Exists


draft-bi-supa-sdsavi-00 A SUPA Use Case for SAVI 2014-09-26 I-D Exists


draft-cheng-supa-ddc-use-cases-01 Use Cases for Distributed Data Center Applications in SUPA 2014-10-27 I-D Exists


draft-contreras-supa-yang-network-topo-01 A YANG Data Model for Network Topologies 2014-10-27 I-D Exists


draft-karagiannis-supa-problem-statement-02 Problem Statement for Shared Unified Policy Automation (SUPA) 2014-10-27 I-D Exists


draft-pentikousis-supa-mapping-00 SUPA Configuration and Policy Mapping 2014-09-23 I-D Exists


draft-sun-supa-openv6-use-cases-00 Use case of IPv6 transition in SUPA 2014-09-25 I-D Exists


draft-zaalouk-supa-configuration-model-01 YANG Data Model for Configuration of Shared Unified Policy Automation (SUPA) 2014-10-27 I-D Exists


draft-zhou-supa-architecture-00 The Architecture for Shared Unified Policy Automation (SUPA) 2014-10-27 I-D Exists




Thank you,
Tina
_______________________________________________
netmod mailing list
netmod@ietf.org
https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/netmod


_______________________________________________
Supa mailing list
Supa@ietf.org
https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/supa




--
Dr. Parviz Yegani
(408) 759-1973 mobile



_______________________________________________
Supa mailing list
Supa@ietf.org
https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/supa

--------------090604000402020601010302-- From nobody Tue Nov 4 08:28:25 2014 Return-Path: X-Original-To: netmod@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: netmod@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1343B1A9046 for ; Tue, 4 Nov 2014 08:28:25 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.496 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.496 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, RP_MATCHES_RCVD=-0.594, SPF_HELO_PASS=-0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id n7EYAvfi-WGa for ; Tue, 4 Nov 2014 08:28:24 -0800 (PST) Received: from lucidvision.com (lucidvision.com [72.71.250.34]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 186711A9004 for ; Tue, 4 Nov 2014 08:28:23 -0800 (PST) Received: from [172.16.19.11] (unknown [193.108.21.20]) by lucidvision.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2219F28FABFB; Tue, 4 Nov 2014 11:28:23 -0500 (EST) From: "Thomas D. Nadeau" Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Date: Tue, 4 Nov 2014 17:28:20 +0100 Message-Id: To: NETMOD Working Group Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 8.0 \(1990.1\)) X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.1990.1) Archived-At: http://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/netmod/LzMdg0rrRbrGUPVIUEHjjj6Lk6o Cc: netmod-chairs@tools.ietf.org Subject: [netmod] draft-bogdanovic-netmod-acl-model adopted as NETMOD WG document X-BeenThere: netmod@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: NETMOD WG list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 04 Nov 2014 16:28:25 -0000 There is consensus to now adopt = draft-bogdanovic-netmod-acl-model as a WG document. Would the authors = please repost this with the fixes requested during the recent = discussions as draft-ietf-netmod-acl-model? Thank you, Tom (as NETMOD co-chair) From nobody Tue Nov 4 08:29:05 2014 Return-Path: X-Original-To: netmod@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: netmod@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5CB771A9061 for ; Tue, 4 Nov 2014 08:29:04 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.496 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.496 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, RP_MATCHES_RCVD=-0.594, SPF_HELO_PASS=-0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id No10m3yX22px for ; Tue, 4 Nov 2014 08:29:00 -0800 (PST) Received: from lucidvision.com (lucidvision.com [72.71.250.34]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3BC6C1A9004 for ; Tue, 4 Nov 2014 08:29:00 -0800 (PST) Received: from [172.16.19.11] (unknown [193.108.21.20]) by lucidvision.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6099928FAC1C; Tue, 4 Nov 2014 11:28:59 -0500 (EST) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 8.0 \(1990.1\)) From: "Thomas D. Nadeau" In-Reply-To: <7EE701DB-3632-41E6-BB67-995E23CCEDAF@lucidvision.com> Date: Tue, 4 Nov 2014 17:28:58 +0100 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Message-Id: <48588E24-1002-445D-9B2C-CBA371C80CA9@lucidvision.com> References: <7EE701DB-3632-41E6-BB67-995E23CCEDAF@lucidvision.com> To: NETMOD Working Group X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.1990.1) Archived-At: http://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/netmod/vknP90LPPXMOl9Aq1aYEIRJRZx8 Cc: netmod-chairs@tools.ietf.org Subject: [netmod] draft-wildes-netmod-syslog-model-03 adopted as NETMOD WG document X-BeenThere: netmod@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: NETMOD WG list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 04 Nov 2014 16:29:04 -0000 There is consensus to adopt this draft as a NETMOD WG document. = Would the authors please public this as draft-ietf-netmod-syslog-model? Thank you --Tom (as co-chair) > On Oct 20, 2014:7:28 PM, at 7:28 PM, Thomas D. Nadeau = wrote: >=20 >=20 > Since I have not heard anything during the poll either pro or = against this, I wanted to extent this call until Friday of this week.=20 >=20 > --Tom >=20 >=20 >=20 >=20 > The co-authors of draft-wildes-netmod-syslog-model-03.txt have = asked the NETMOD chairs to post a call to adopt the draft as a WG = document.=20 >=20 > The draft can be found here: >=20 > http://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-wildes-netmod-syslog-model-03 >=20 > The model itself has been extracted and can be directly accessed = here using git: >=20 > = https://github.com/YangModels/yang/tree/master/experimental/ietf/SYSLOG-MO= DEL >=20 > Please comment by the close of business on Monday, October 13, = 2014. >=20 >=20 > --Tom (As NETMOD co-chair) >=20 >=20 >=20 > _______________________________________________ > netmod mailing list > netmod@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/netmod From nobody Tue Nov 4 08:36:31 2014 Return-Path: X-Original-To: netmod@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: netmod@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id DDD691A9076 for ; Tue, 4 Nov 2014 08:36:26 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.496 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.496 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, RP_MATCHES_RCVD=-0.594, SPF_HELO_PASS=-0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 573QEAxdgZob for ; Tue, 4 Nov 2014 08:36:23 -0800 (PST) Received: from lucidvision.com (lucidvision.com [72.71.250.34]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3DCC51A9074 for ; Tue, 4 Nov 2014 08:36:23 -0800 (PST) Received: from [172.16.19.11] (unknown [193.108.21.20]) by lucidvision.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7B7A628FAC61; Tue, 4 Nov 2014 11:36:22 -0500 (EST) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 8.0 \(1990.1\)) From: "Thomas D. Nadeau" In-Reply-To: Date: Tue, 4 Nov 2014 17:36:20 +0100 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Message-Id: <0AC1F16A-67FA-477B-8F4E-9DE293D9C746@lucidvision.com> References: To: NETMOD Working Group X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.1990.1) Archived-At: http://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/netmod/fbOdhi2QuvPCiEybm6h5XoKHV-0 Cc: netmod-chairs@tools.ietf.org Subject: Re: [netmod] current IETF91 Netmod Preliminary Agenda X-BeenThere: netmod@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: NETMOD WG list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 04 Nov 2014 16:36:27 -0000 Sorry for replying to my own post, but I forgot to mention this = is an initial/draft agenda. Please comment/bash ASAP. --Tom > On Nov 4, 2014:4:03 PM, at 4:03 PM, Thomas D. Nadeau = wrote: >=20 >=20 > This is the current agenda I have to-date. Are there any other = requests for discussion slots? >=20 > --Tom >=20 >=20 >=20 > Peer Mount Discussion/drafts 15 min Eric Voit = evoit@cisco.com > = http://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-voit-netmod-peer-mount-requirements/= >=20 > =E2=80=9CDesign Teams=E2=80=9D update. 10 min = jason.sterne@alcatel-lucent.com >=20 > o List of all known =E2=80=9Cdesign teams=E2=80=9D = that are working on=20 > YANG models (especially ones that may be =09= > progressing outside of the IETF mailing lists) > =09 > o Ideally a brief status update from one of the = primary=20 > leaders/contributors (i.e. a few bullet points / = 1-2 minutes)=20 > for each one (not to discuss the technical = details of specific=20 > models =E2=80=93 that could be other agenda = items) >=20 > YANG conformance issues. 10 min Andy Bierman Andy = Bierman > = http://www.ietf.org/id/draft-bierman-netmod-yang-conformance-04.txt >=20 > draft-ietf-netmod-routing-cfg-16 5 Lada = Lhotka lhotka@nic.cz > draft-ietf-netmod-yang-json-01 5 Lada = Lhotka lhotka@nic.cz > draft-lhotka-netmod-yang-metadata-00 5 Lada = Lhotka lhotka@nic.cz >=20 >=20 > Dana Blair dblair@cisco.com =09 > Dean Bogdanovic deanb@juniper.net 10 ACL Yang = Model >=20 > Mahesh Jethanandani mjethanandani@gmail.com 10 BFD Yang = Model >=20 >=20 >=20 > =09 >=20 >=20 From nobody Tue Nov 4 08:41:01 2014 Return-Path: X-Original-To: netmod@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: netmod@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8C4941A9076 for ; Tue, 4 Nov 2014 08:40:59 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -15.094 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-15.094 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_HI=-5, RP_MATCHES_RCVD=-0.594, SPF_PASS=-0.001, USER_IN_DEF_DKIM_WL=-7.5] autolearn=ham Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id dNwLGfEabcMz for ; Tue, 4 Nov 2014 08:40:56 -0800 (PST) Received: from aer-iport-4.cisco.com (aer-iport-4.cisco.com [173.38.203.54]) (using TLSv1 with cipher RC4-SHA (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id C91671A9046 for ; Tue, 4 Nov 2014 08:40:55 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/simple; d=cisco.com; i=@cisco.com; l=19558; q=dns/txt; s=iport; t=1415119255; x=1416328855; h=message-id:date:from:mime-version:to:cc:subject: references:in-reply-to; bh=/6UOf9E9XS7HNbHw+gJSGkGNdc/3zfk9dU2f5yzgZnc=; b=E1miLVKWVruyHVvTM96FUVHieUOGV/MnnWwJmk2sIgudyGvC3RMjFLhE 5jzRzy14OWNRlYdleyhlMRqjGe9f3x2gksd4gz8D5Y7WGKO7x3GNgEDHz Hy2fkSKQtL2JzPzOCXxXgrcBHz9MH6Ril/Vmrh5Mw/WM0eEQAzaXnBjmZ U=; X-IronPort-Anti-Spam-Filtered: true X-IronPort-Anti-Spam-Result: ArQEADwAWVStJssW/2dsb2JhbABcg2JYzlcBC4Z3VAKBOAEBAQEBfYQDAQEEAQEBawoBEAsOCgkWAQcHCQMCAQIBDwYfEQYBDAEFAgEBBYgjAxINxwMNhikBAQEBAQEBAQEBAQEBAQEBAQEBAQEXjlaBVxIBAU8GAYRLBYRpk32CTUOCEYExg0yCd4cpQoJnhAmDeTwvAYEOgTwBAQE X-IronPort-AV: E=Sophos;i="5.07,313,1413244800"; d="scan'208,217";a="230793540" Received: from aer-iport-nat.cisco.com (HELO aer-core-3.cisco.com) ([173.38.203.22]) by aer-iport-4.cisco.com with ESMTP; 04 Nov 2014 16:40:53 +0000 Received: from [10.60.67.84] (ams-bclaise-8913.cisco.com [10.60.67.84]) by aer-core-3.cisco.com (8.14.5/8.14.5) with ESMTP id sA4Ger1K005639; Tue, 4 Nov 2014 16:40:53 GMT Message-ID: <54590195.3010903@cisco.com> Date: Tue, 04 Nov 2014 17:40:53 +0100 From: Benoit Claise User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 6.1; WOW64; rv:24.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/24.7.0 MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Mahesh Jethanandani , "Thomas D. Nadeau" References: <79054E89-2D09-4461-8D35-8F6FA025B71F@nic.cz> <43060BE7-53EA-4B9D-B778-2FED58C0D60C@lucidvision.com> <52AE09CB-D4AB-4421-BBA4-1D9C45EA6957@gmail.com> In-Reply-To: <52AE09CB-D4AB-4421-BBA4-1D9C45EA6957@gmail.com> Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="------------050000040604060709000907" Archived-At: http://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/netmod/YTHa-vVdDihjj1NS9_feC6zWWAY Cc: "netmod@ietf.org" , "rtg-ads@tools.ietf.org" Subject: Re: [netmod] IETF91 NETMOD agenda ? X-BeenThere: netmod@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: NETMOD WG list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 04 Nov 2014 16:40:59 -0000 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --------------050000040604060709000907 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Mahesh, Not sure what exactly you want to present but let me draw your attention that the routing-related modules should be taken care of in their respective WG. See http://www.ietf.org/mail-archive/web/rtg-yang-coord/current/msg00094.html Regards, Benoit > Tom, > > I am giving an update on the BFD YANG model in the BFD WG. I can give > a quick update (~1-2min) in NETMOD if such an update is desired. > > *Mahesh Jethanandani* > mjethanandani@gmail.com > > On Oct 23, 2014, at 1:43 PM, "Thomas D. Nadeau" > > wrote: > >> >> We have plenty of runway in the agenda right now so I will put it >> down as two items. We reserved two slots because I feel its important >> to encourage discussion during the face2face meetings so insofar as I >> can, I want to give you enough runway to discuss this in detail. >> >> --Tom >> >> >>> On Oct 23, 2014:12:13 PM, at 12:13 PM, Ladislav Lhotka >>> > wrote: >>> >>> Hi, >>> >>> apart from the two WG items draft-ietf-netmod-routing-cfg-16 (to be >>> submitted) and draft-ietf-netmod-yang-json-01, I'd like to discuss >>> the draft and draft-lhotka-netmod-yang-metadata-00. I think 5 >>> minutes would be enough for the latter, I could even do it together >>> with yang-json. >>> >>> Thanks, Lada >>> >>> On 23 Oct 2014, at 18:02, Andy Bierman >> > wrote: >>> >>>> >>>> >>>> On Tue, Oct 21, 2014 at 2:34 PM, Thomas D. Nadeau >>>> > wrote: >>>> >>>> Not yet. Please propose topics. >>>> >>>> >>>> I would like 15 min. to discuss YANG conformance issues, specified >>>> in this draft: >>>> http://www.ietf.org/id/draft-bierman-netmod-yang-conformance-04.txt >>>> >>>> These issues may get resolved in the NETCONF YANG 1.1 virtual interim >>>> meeting next week. If not, this topic should be discussed at the >>>> IETF meeting. >>>> >>>> >>>> ---Tom >>>> >>>> Andy >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>>> On Oct 21, 2014:5:32 PM, at 5:32 PM, Sterne, Jason (Jason) >>>>> >>>> > wrote: >>>>> >>>>> Hi all, >>>>> >>>>> Is there a preliminary agenda for the two NETMOD sessions at IETF91 ? >>>>> >>>>> Some thought about topics being split between the 1st (longer) and >>>>> 2nd (shorter) sessions ? >>>>> >>>>> Thanks, >>>>> Jason >>>>> >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> netmod mailing list >>>>> netmod@ietf.org >>>>> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/netmod >>>> >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> netmod mailing list >>>> netmod@ietf.org >>>> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/netmod >>>> >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> netmod mailing list >>>> netmod@ietf.org >>>> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/netmod >>> >>> -- >>> Ladislav Lhotka, CZ.NIC Labs >>> PGP Key ID: E74E8C0C >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> netmod mailing list >> netmod@ietf.org >> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/netmod > > > _______________________________________________ > netmod mailing list > netmod@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/netmod --------------050000040604060709000907 Content-Type: text/html; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
Mahesh,

Not sure what exactly you want to present but let me draw your attention that the routing-related modules should be taken care of in their respective WG. See http://www.ietf.org/mail-archive/web/rtg-yang-coord/current/msg00094.html

Regards, Benoit
Tom,

I am giving an update on the BFD YANG model in the BFD WG. I can give a quick update (~1-2min) in NETMOD if such an update is desired.

Mahesh Jethanandani

On Oct 23, 2014, at 1:43 PM, "Thomas D. Nadeau" <tnadeau@lucidvision.com> wrote:


   We have plenty of runway in the agenda right now so I will put it down as two items. We reserved two slots because I feel its important to encourage discussion during the face2face meetings so insofar as I can, I want to give you enough runway to discuss this in detail.

   --Tom


On Oct 23, 2014:12:13 PM, at 12:13 PM, Ladislav Lhotka <lhotka@nic.cz> wrote:

Hi,

apart from the two WG items draft-ietf-netmod-routing-cfg-16 (to be submitted) and draft-ietf-netmod-yang-json-01, I’d like to discuss the draft and draft-lhotka-netmod-yang-metadata-00. I think 5 minutes would be enough for the latter, I could even do it together with yang-json.

Thanks, Lada

On 23 Oct 2014, at 18:02, Andy Bierman <andy@yumaworks.com> wrote:



On Tue, Oct 21, 2014 at 2:34 PM, Thomas D. Nadeau <tnadeau@lucidvision.com> wrote:

   Not yet. Please propose topics.


I would like 15 min. to discuss YANG conformance issues, specified in this draft:
http://www.ietf.org/id/draft-bierman-netmod-yang-conformance-04.txt

These issues may get resolved in the NETCONF YANG 1.1 virtual interim
meeting next week. If not, this topic should be discussed at the IETF meeting.


   —Tom

Andy



On Oct 21, 2014:5:32 PM, at 5:32 PM, Sterne, Jason (Jason) <jason.sterne@alcatel-lucent.com> wrote:

Hi all,

Is there a preliminary agenda for the two NETMOD sessions at IETF91 ?     

Some thought about topics being split between the 1st (longer) and 2nd (shorter) sessions ?

Thanks,
Jason

_______________________________________________
netmod mailing list
netmod@ietf.org
https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/netmod


_______________________________________________
netmod mailing list
netmod@ietf.org
https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/netmod


_______________________________________________
netmod mailing list
netmod@ietf.org
https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/netmod

--
Ladislav Lhotka, CZ.NIC Labs
PGP Key ID: E74E8C0C






_______________________________________________
netmod mailing list
netmod@ietf.org
https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/netmod


_______________________________________________
netmod mailing list
netmod@ietf.org
https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/netmod

--------------050000040604060709000907-- From nobody Tue Nov 4 08:57:10 2014 Return-Path: X-Original-To: netmod@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: netmod@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 489121A9146 for ; Tue, 4 Nov 2014 08:57:06 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -15.095 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-15.095 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_HI=-5, RP_MATCHES_RCVD=-0.594, SPF_PASS=-0.001, USER_IN_DEF_DKIM_WL=-7.5] autolearn=ham Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 6z0Y0h-QHFYg for ; Tue, 4 Nov 2014 08:57:02 -0800 (PST) Received: from aer-iport-3.cisco.com (aer-iport-3.cisco.com [173.38.203.53]) (using TLSv1 with cipher RC4-SHA (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 972911A9143 for ; Tue, 4 Nov 2014 08:57:01 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/simple; d=cisco.com; i=@cisco.com; l=2732; q=dns/txt; s=iport; t=1415120222; x=1416329822; h=message-id:date:from:mime-version:to:cc:subject: references:in-reply-to:content-transfer-encoding; bh=e/9FkXqdOl4FuU8A0UARrPno88gYHohe6Bxg5AkzcsA=; b=fiCLx2YYeck0cbrKwghRqoQY40fWORiJw/WdkX3BWycRVU+X4uGGcJi+ YwQc/oIJidCeemhRIFHg6Hjt+TUwoaTR1beHHv1GUzylZm+zOKQkUDrh0 7pzdZ+f07DUGgHsv16qeTCN4xLHWl6yv46JegE7j4YU15QlCpr9XRylLP Q=; X-IronPort-Anti-Spam-Filtered: true X-IronPort-Anti-Spam-Result: ArUEALcEWVStJssW/2dsb2JhbABbg2JTBc5RCoZ5VAKBOAEBAQEBfYQCAQEBBAEBATUzAwoBEAsRAwECChYPCQMCAQIBFSgIBgEMAQUCAQEFiDgIBc1OAQEBAQEBAQEBAQEBAQEBAQEBAQEBF5EQBwaERQWWb4cYgTE9gw+Cd45bg3k8L4JLAQEB X-IronPort-AV: E=Sophos;i="5.07,313,1413244800"; d="scan'208";a="230863562" Received: from aer-iport-nat.cisco.com (HELO aer-core-2.cisco.com) ([173.38.203.22]) by aer-iport-3.cisco.com with ESMTP; 04 Nov 2014 16:57:00 +0000 Received: from [10.60.67.84] (ams-bclaise-8913.cisco.com [10.60.67.84]) by aer-core-2.cisco.com (8.14.5/8.14.5) with ESMTP id sA4GuxmS004884; Tue, 4 Nov 2014 16:56:59 GMT Message-ID: <5459055B.8050709@cisco.com> Date: Tue, 04 Nov 2014 17:56:59 +0100 From: Benoit Claise User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 6.1; WOW64; rv:24.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/24.7.0 MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Ladislav Lhotka , NETMOD Working Group References: <20141026152858.21687.9670.idtracker@ietfa.amsl.com> In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Archived-At: http://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/netmod/_27BoW46VO0pJz4zHyrRuEcWkss Cc: "rtg-ads@tools.ietf.org" Subject: Re: [netmod] Fwd: I-D Action: draft-ietf-netmod-routing-cfg-16.txt X-BeenThere: netmod@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: NETMOD WG list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 04 Nov 2014 16:57:06 -0000 Hi Lada, Thanks for that. So you will be presenting this draft in NETMOD. But also routing? Including the two routing ADs, just in case... Regards, Benoit > Hi, > > this revision of the routing draft is a result of synchronisation with the group of routing experts working on the OSPF and ISIS modules. > > The sources for the draft, YANG modules and examples are available from this GitHub repo: > > https://github.com/yang-routing/yang-routing > > Lada > > Begin forwarded message: > >> From: internet-drafts@ietf.org >> Subject: [netmod] I-D Action: draft-ietf-netmod-routing-cfg-16.txt >> Date: 26 Oct 2014 16:28:58 GMT+1 >> To: i-d-announce@ietf.org >> Cc: netmod@ietf.org >> >> >> A New Internet-Draft is available from the on-line Internet-Drafts directories. >> This draft is a work item of the NETCONF Data Modeling Language Working Group of the IETF. >> >> Title : A YANG Data Model for Routing Management >> Author : Ladislav Lhotka >> Filename : draft-ietf-netmod-routing-cfg-16.txt >> Pages : 88 >> Date : 2014-10-26 >> >> Abstract: >> This document contains a specification of three YANG modules. >> Together they form the core routing data model which serves as a >> framework for configuring and managing a routing subsystem. It is >> expected that these modules will be augmented by additional YANG >> modules defining data models for routing protocols and other >> functions. The core routing data model provides common building >> blocks for such extensions - routing instances, routes, routing >> information bases (RIB), routing protocols and route filters. >> >> >> The IETF datatracker status page for this draft is: >> https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-netmod-routing-cfg/ >> >> There's also a htmlized version available at: >> http://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-netmod-routing-cfg-16 >> >> A diff from the previous version is available at: >> http://www.ietf.org/rfcdiff?url2=draft-ietf-netmod-routing-cfg-16 >> >> >> Please note that it may take a couple of minutes from the time of submission >> until the htmlized version and diff are available at tools.ietf.org. >> >> Internet-Drafts are also available by anonymous FTP at: >> ftp://ftp.ietf.org/internet-drafts/ >> >> _______________________________________________ >> netmod mailing list >> netmod@ietf.org >> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/netmod > -- > Ladislav Lhotka, CZ.NIC Labs > PGP Key ID: E74E8C0C > > > > > _______________________________________________ > netmod mailing list > netmod@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/netmod > . > From nobody Tue Nov 4 09:10:35 2014 Return-Path: X-Original-To: netmod@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: netmod@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id BDE381A923A for ; Tue, 4 Nov 2014 09:10:28 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.979 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.979 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, FM_FORGED_GMAIL=0.622, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW=-0.7, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id yZ8TI0pf_kbt for ; Tue, 4 Nov 2014 09:10:19 -0800 (PST) Received: from mail-qc0-f176.google.com (mail-qc0-f176.google.com [209.85.216.176]) (using TLSv1 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-RC4-SHA (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 656481A90DF for ; Tue, 4 Nov 2014 09:10:19 -0800 (PST) Received: by mail-qc0-f176.google.com with SMTP id x3so11059664qcv.7 for ; Tue, 04 Nov 2014 09:10:17 -0800 (PST) X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20130820; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:in-reply-to:references:date :message-id:subject:from:to:cc:content-type :content-transfer-encoding; bh=mduze/WoGFEEYCWDZ5g+LpZaHcIaqhZ3vA0/Awi1qx4=; b=gBhFh4ExeebaPUxpWWGscVYj88ZkXLA01/bjmxsV768Oqy0vf+GlYOM+pE8M50oaTc PwkoTKBGrHd7jT5gtMbjKz4aEvfKSa0ltaLefozi13ldhOhn9c+f+tGao9nmM8Z29xMO iLuNXYgoHVEO1mEPD1Q+9Q4ODZw884KjvaGvcfdE8dHfFsjdap7Uq343d0LMihrwrTOM Gy9XJZ493qge31R2Pwjv9E4+Rbn4XCxH1SVHcPNOMwpGn3b1DD+x8PInD+EoycCScvLZ H0Nu5UZnUamrirYC9IZjuxDb+yVngcZTl03aMQye6KlzC1QeE4WVTXN6nwR9WoOnWrxu UUsQ== X-Gm-Message-State: ALoCoQm8/Q9nl7zNDgyQXX42DO5hlhJxe4jDp6OYAgcVjI2Esf1GOwkbtnJMOclibQn1dCUuCr0C MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Received: by 10.140.88.177 with SMTP id t46mr73661416qgd.36.1415121017323; Tue, 04 Nov 2014 09:10:17 -0800 (PST) Received: by 10.140.37.52 with HTTP; Tue, 4 Nov 2014 09:10:17 -0800 (PST) In-Reply-To: <0AC1F16A-67FA-477B-8F4E-9DE293D9C746@lucidvision.com> References: <0AC1F16A-67FA-477B-8F4E-9DE293D9C746@lucidvision.com> Date: Tue, 4 Nov 2014 09:10:17 -0800 Message-ID: From: Andy Bierman To: "Thomas D. Nadeau" Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Archived-At: http://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/netmod/5-Vs5RXIH4I91PO-vkLbMvz2hd8 Cc: "netmod-chairs@tools.ietf.org" , NETMOD Working Group Subject: Re: [netmod] current IETF91 Netmod Preliminary Agenda X-BeenThere: netmod@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: NETMOD WG list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 04 Nov 2014 17:10:28 -0000 On Tue, Nov 4, 2014 at 8:36 AM, Thomas D. Nadeau wrote: > > Sorry for replying to my own post, but I forgot to mention this i= s an initial/draft agenda. Please comment/bash ASAP. I will bash.... It has been a tradition to discuss chartered work before want-to-be-chartered work. I see that is no longer the case. YANG "Peer Mount Requirements" is a contentious topic and will probably go over 15 minutes. Is this discussion limited to the YANG language aspects or will the protocol aspects be on the agenda as well? I notice YANG 1.1 is not on the agenda at all. I know Martin and Juergen cannot be there, but we have support for remote attendance and there are plenty of open issues to discuss. > > --Tom Andy > > >> On Nov 4, 2014:4:03 PM, at 4:03 PM, Thomas D. Nadeau wrote: >> >> >> This is the current agenda I have to-date. Are there any other req= uests for discussion slots? >> >> --Tom >> >> >> >> Peer Mount Discussion/drafts 15 min Eric Voit evoit@cisco.com >> http://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-voit-netmod-peer-mount-requi= rements/ >> >> =E2=80=9CDesign Teams=E2=80=9D update. 10 min jason.ster= ne@alcatel-lucent.com >> >> o List of all known =E2=80=9Cdesign teams=E2=80=9D that = are working on >> YANG models (especially ones that may be >> progressing outside of the IETF mailing lists) >> >> o Ideally a brief status update from one of the primary >> leaders/contributors (i.e. a few bullet points / 1= -2 minutes) >> for each one (not to discuss the technical details= of specific >> models =E2=80=93 that could be other agenda items) >> >> YANG conformance issues. 10 min Andy Bierman Andy Bierman = >> http://www.ietf.org/id/draft-bierman-netmod-yang-conformance-04.tx= t >> >> draft-ietf-netmod-routing-cfg-16 5 Lada Lhotk= a lhotka@nic.cz >> draft-ietf-netmod-yang-json-01 5 Lada Lhotk= a lhotka@nic.cz >> draft-lhotka-netmod-yang-metadata-00 5 Lada Lhotk= a lhotka@nic.cz >> >> >> Dana Blair dblair@cisco.com >> Dean Bogdanovic deanb@juniper.net 10 ACL Yang M= odel >> >> Mahesh Jethanandani mjethanandani@gmail.com 10 BFD Yang M= odel >> >> >> >> >> >> > > _______________________________________________ > netmod mailing list > netmod@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/netmod From nobody Tue Nov 4 09:12:57 2014 Return-Path: X-Original-To: netmod@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: netmod@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5E9851AC3AE for ; Tue, 4 Nov 2014 09:12:56 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -15.095 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-15.095 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_HI=-5, RP_MATCHES_RCVD=-0.594, SPF_PASS=-0.001, USER_IN_DEF_DKIM_WL=-7.5] autolearn=ham Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id B7cPJz1fOeDr for ; Tue, 4 Nov 2014 09:12:55 -0800 (PST) Received: from alln-iport-3.cisco.com (alln-iport-3.cisco.com [173.37.142.90]) (using TLSv1 with cipher RC4-SHA (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 2CDBF1AC3B3 for ; Tue, 4 Nov 2014 09:12:36 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/simple; d=cisco.com; i=@cisco.com; l=571; q=dns/txt; s=iport; t=1415121156; x=1416330756; h=from:to:cc:subject:date:message-id:in-reply-to: content-id:content-transfer-encoding:mime-version; bh=OmDpKDPPVhaKLxYFJXckhyx7VNSXWIzZr6N6xDT/AO0=; b=ZIhTI9ZZMBBY9HpKqcw7JtI5MLEBHEgVxWmmbbAOaCLPVQEnQT/hldsE YYlZPoZ3Iya1MDRORoqRsiLKsgIgu72ESYhFd0QXpG4Lgvf+keqYzm2h5 FbL6iFGaeTxlFmHKDx355OpwyyU8sfzdMuzOOqJiUAv7/DSULTwQzl+dq Q=; X-IronPort-Anti-Spam-Filtered: true X-IronPort-Anti-Spam-Result: AhYFAMAHWVStJA2D/2dsb2JhbABbgw5UWATOTQqGeVQCgSIWAQEBAQF9hAMBAQMBAQEBawsSAQhtCyUCBAENBRqIHgkNzVgBAQEBAQEBAQEBAQEBAQEBAQEBAQETBJEQB4RLBYs8hmSLZ4Exg0yKIIcyg3hsgUiBAwEBAQ X-IronPort-AV: E=Sophos;i="5.07,313,1413244800"; d="scan'208";a="93253342" Received: from alln-core-1.cisco.com ([173.36.13.131]) by alln-iport-3.cisco.com with ESMTP; 04 Nov 2014 17:12:35 +0000 Received: from xhc-aln-x12.cisco.com (xhc-aln-x12.cisco.com [173.36.12.86]) by alln-core-1.cisco.com (8.14.5/8.14.5) with ESMTP id sA4HCZXn024759 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=AES128-SHA bits=128 verify=FAIL); Tue, 4 Nov 2014 17:12:35 GMT Received: from xmb-aln-x07.cisco.com ([169.254.2.60]) by xhc-aln-x12.cisco.com ([173.36.12.86]) with mapi id 14.03.0195.001; Tue, 4 Nov 2014 11:12:35 -0600 From: "Dana Blair (dblair)" To: "Thomas D. Nadeau" , NETMOD Working Group Thread-Topic: [netmod] draft-bogdanovic-netmod-acl-model adopted as NETMOD WG document Thread-Index: AQHP+FKG67Nsif13YUuj/oNsaG0pGA== Date: Tue, 4 Nov 2014 17:12:35 +0000 Message-ID: In-Reply-To: Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: user-agent: Microsoft-MacOutlook/14.3.8.130913 x-originating-ip: [10.21.69.73] Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-ID: <87FAD307CC13BC47865C5178D173FA2B@emea.cisco.com> Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable MIME-Version: 1.0 Archived-At: http://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/netmod/ATtWk9x7N4fU8RAQABJmvyrqoR0 Cc: "netmod-chairs@tools.ietf.org" Subject: Re: [netmod] draft-bogdanovic-netmod-acl-model adopted as NETMOD WG document X-BeenThere: netmod@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: NETMOD WG list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 04 Nov 2014 17:12:56 -0000 Thanks Tom. This is great news! We=B9ll update the doc as needed. thanks, Dana On 11/4/14, 11:28 AM, "Thomas D. Nadeau" wrote: > > There is consensus to now adopt draft-bogdanovic-netmod-acl-model as a >WG document. Would the authors please repost this with the fixes >requested during the recent discussions as draft-ietf-netmod-acl-model? > > Thank you, > > Tom (as NETMOD co-chair) > >_______________________________________________ >netmod mailing list >netmod@ietf.org >https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/netmod From nobody Tue Nov 4 09:24:17 2014 Return-Path: X-Original-To: netmod@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: netmod@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id EE3761A1A03 for ; Tue, 4 Nov 2014 09:24:15 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -15.095 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-15.095 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_HI=-5, RP_MATCHES_RCVD=-0.594, SPF_PASS=-0.001, USER_IN_DEF_DKIM_WL=-7.5] autolearn=ham Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id xu35kaB7mzHn for ; Tue, 4 Nov 2014 09:24:14 -0800 (PST) Received: from rcdn-iport-4.cisco.com (rcdn-iport-4.cisco.com [173.37.86.75]) (using TLSv1 with cipher RC4-SHA (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 50AE31A0BE8 for ; Tue, 4 Nov 2014 09:24:14 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/simple; d=cisco.com; i=@cisco.com; l=5174; q=dns/txt; s=iport; t=1415121854; x=1416331454; h=from:to:cc:subject:date:message-id:references: in-reply-to:content-transfer-encoding:mime-version; bh=C9f+p0D71D4EpmSAwZDVMovdjZBnBcZ0SX7BK0hb3Tc=; b=ZHE6buXFOPUSLoIFnW+aU1A7N7EcNXja1SOkLdN8/IrsdZsXVcBUNsFd 1/4TOgV9qhyPt4vtWgaU6pZn9lakKNagqkXj6N33810iTrhDa6jYuLVec 4uQj0jqEWOx8q7wf1GtRo9GTvM1EVzeJ1Fcuw6+oK0++3HXUlzRoWP+nl w=; X-IronPort-Anti-Spam-Filtered: true X-IronPort-Anti-Spam-Result: AvEFAKkKWVStJA2N/2dsb2JhbABbgw5UWASDAstLCoZ5VAIcgQYWAQEBAQF9hAIBAQEDAQEBASAROgsFCwIBCBUDAgIGIAICAh8GCxUQAgQBDQUIAYgjAwkJDbhcjl8NhikBAQEBAQEBAQEBAQEBAQEBAQEBAQEXgS2NKYFiJxYbB4J3NoEeBZIghE+EREODQhIrgw+KIEKGcIN4bAGBBUKBAwEBAQ X-IronPort-AV: E=Sophos;i="5.07,313,1413244800"; d="scan'208";a="369291680" Received: from alln-core-8.cisco.com ([173.36.13.141]) by rcdn-iport-4.cisco.com with ESMTP; 04 Nov 2014 17:24:13 +0000 Received: from xhc-rcd-x08.cisco.com (xhc-rcd-x08.cisco.com [173.37.183.82]) by alln-core-8.cisco.com (8.14.5/8.14.5) with ESMTP id sA4HODYU014676 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=AES128-SHA bits=128 verify=FAIL); Tue, 4 Nov 2014 17:24:13 GMT Received: from xmb-aln-x11.cisco.com ([169.254.6.106]) by xhc-rcd-x08.cisco.com ([173.37.183.82]) with mapi id 14.03.0195.001; Tue, 4 Nov 2014 11:24:13 -0600 From: "Eric Voit (evoit)" To: Andy Bierman , "Thomas D. Nadeau" , "Alexander Clemm (alex)" Thread-Topic: [netmod] current IETF91 Netmod Preliminary Agenda Thread-Index: AQHP+FJGOheLz3/jeEWiDx+fYgNlDZxQtJdQ Date: Tue, 4 Nov 2014 17:24:12 +0000 Message-ID: References: <0AC1F16A-67FA-477B-8F4E-9DE293D9C746@lucidvision.com> In-Reply-To: Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-originating-ip: [10.116.134.131] Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 MIME-Version: 1.0 Archived-At: http://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/netmod/GoyjtpPGSjA1CzXyFbrPhbk64rE Cc: "netmod-chairs@tools.ietf.org" , NETMOD Working Group Subject: Re: [netmod] current IETF91 Netmod Preliminary Agenda X-BeenThere: netmod@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: NETMOD WG list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 04 Nov 2014 17:24:16 -0000 PiBGcm9tOiBuZXRtb2QsIE5vdmVtYmVyIDA0LCAyMDE0IDEyOjEwIFBNDQo+IE9uIFR1ZSwgTm92 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L2xpc3RpbmZvL25ldG1vZA0K From nobody Tue Nov 4 09:26:46 2014 Return-Path: X-Original-To: netmod@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: netmod@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id C6F3C1AC3C0 for ; Tue, 4 Nov 2014 09:26:44 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.496 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.496 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, RP_MATCHES_RCVD=-0.594, SPF_HELO_PASS=-0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id vcXgHUg9ycsl for ; Tue, 4 Nov 2014 09:26:43 -0800 (PST) Received: from lucidvision.com (lucidvision.com [72.71.250.34]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6D16C1A01F6 for ; Tue, 4 Nov 2014 09:26:43 -0800 (PST) Received: from [10.5.10.219] (unknown [93.158.35.5]) by lucidvision.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7C3B128FAFBA; Tue, 4 Nov 2014 12:26:42 -0500 (EST) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Mime-Version: 1.0 (1.0) From: Thomas Nadeau X-Mailer: iPhone Mail (12B411) In-Reply-To: Date: Tue, 4 Nov 2014 18:26:39 +0100 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Message-Id: <2B12B6D4-825F-49AC-BDDF-A6FBAEC24336@lucidvision.com> References: To: "Dana Blair (dblair)" Archived-At: http://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/netmod/yUBFCjOV-dTaSAZwW6GTRvJdWHc Cc: "netmod-chairs@tools.ietf.org" , NETMOD Working Group Subject: Re: [netmod] draft-bogdanovic-netmod-acl-model adopted as NETMOD WG document X-BeenThere: netmod@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: NETMOD WG list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 04 Nov 2014 17:26:44 -0000 Thanks for the hard work on this and the syslog models! Tom=20 > On Nov 4, 2014, at 6:12 PM, Dana Blair (dblair) wrote: >=20 > Thanks Tom. This is great news! We=C2=B9ll update the doc as needed. >=20 > thanks, > Dana >=20 >> On 11/4/14, 11:28 AM, "Thomas D. Nadeau" wrote:= >>=20 >>=20 >> There is consensus to now adopt draft-bogdanovic-netmod-acl-model as a= >> WG document. Would the authors please repost this with the fixes >> requested during the recent discussions as draft-ietf-netmod-acl-model? >>=20 >> Thank you, >>=20 >> Tom (as NETMOD co-chair) >>=20 >> _______________________________________________ >> netmod mailing list >> netmod@ietf.org >> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/netmod >=20 >=20 From nobody Tue Nov 4 09:28:43 2014 Return-Path: X-Original-To: netmod@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: netmod@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id A36411ABD36 for ; Tue, 4 Nov 2014 09:28:41 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.496 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.496 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, RP_MATCHES_RCVD=-0.594, SPF_HELO_PASS=-0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 6rONu8uOGahH for ; Tue, 4 Nov 2014 09:28:40 -0800 (PST) Received: from lucidvision.com (lucidvision.com [72.71.250.34]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 090901A9240 for ; Tue, 4 Nov 2014 09:28:40 -0800 (PST) Received: from [10.5.10.219] (unknown [93.158.35.5]) by lucidvision.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2D95D28FAFCD; Tue, 4 Nov 2014 12:28:39 -0500 (EST) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Mime-Version: 1.0 (1.0) From: Thomas Nadeau X-Mailer: iPhone Mail (12B411) In-Reply-To: Date: Tue, 4 Nov 2014 18:28:37 +0100 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Message-Id: <5050899F-242D-4F95-8A6A-3FA88A482783@lucidvision.com> References: <0AC1F16A-67FA-477B-8F4E-9DE293D9C746@lucidvision.com> To: Andy Bierman Archived-At: http://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/netmod/mUA24AO6l9aIlwco57sjAiuQEA0 Cc: "netmod-chairs@tools.ietf.org" , NETMOD Working Group Subject: Re: [netmod] current IETF91 Netmod Preliminary Agenda X-BeenThere: netmod@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: NETMOD WG list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 04 Nov 2014 17:28:41 -0000 > On Nov 4, 2014, at 6:10 PM, Andy Bierman wrote: >=20 > On Tue, Nov 4, 2014 at 8:36 AM, Thomas D. Nadeau > wrote: >>=20 >> Sorry for replying to my own post, but I forgot to mention this is= an initial/draft agenda. Please comment/bash ASAP. >=20 > I will bash.... >=20 > It has been a tradition to discuss chartered work before > want-to-be-chartered work. > I see that is no longer the case. YANG "Peer Mount Requirements" is a > contentious > topic and will probably go over 15 minutes. Is this discussion > limited to the YANG > language aspects or will the protocol aspects be on the agenda as well? There are some in scope and some maybe-in-scope later parts of this. Les dis= cuss how best to structure the discussion. >=20 > I notice YANG 1.1 is not on the agenda at all. > I know Martin and Juergen cannot be there, but we have > support for remote attendance and there are plenty of > open issues to discuss. No one volunteered the section. Shall I put you down to lead the discussion ?= ;) Tom=20 >=20 >=20 >>=20 >> --Tom >=20 > Andy >=20 >>=20 >>=20 >>> On Nov 4, 2014:4:03 PM, at 4:03 PM, Thomas D. Nadeau wrote: >>>=20 >>>=20 >>> This is the current agenda I have to-date. Are there any other requ= ests for discussion slots? >>>=20 >>> --Tom >>>=20 >>>=20 >>>=20 >>> Peer Mount Discussion/drafts 15 min Eric Voit evoit@cisco.com >>> http://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-voit-netmod-peer-mount-requir= ements/ >>>=20 >>> =E2=80=9CDesign Teams=E2=80=9D update. 10 min jason.stern= e@alcatel-lucent.com >>>=20 >>> o List of all known =E2=80=9Cdesign teams=E2=80=9D that a= re working on >>> YANG models (especially ones that may be >>> progressing outside of the IETF mailing lists) >>>=20 >>> o Ideally a brief status update from one of the primary >>> leaders/contributors (i.e. a few bullet points / 1-= 2 minutes) >>> for each one (not to discuss the technical details o= f specific >>> models =E2=80=93 that could be other agenda items) >>>=20 >>> YANG conformance issues. 10 min Andy Bierman Andy Bierman <= andy@yumaworks.com> >>> http://www.ietf.org/id/draft-bierman-netmod-yang-conformance-04.txt= >>>=20 >>> draft-ietf-netmod-routing-cfg-16 5 Lada Lhotka= lhotka@nic.cz >>> draft-ietf-netmod-yang-json-01 5 Lada Lhotka= lhotka@nic.cz >>> draft-lhotka-netmod-yang-metadata-00 5 Lada Lhotka= lhotka@nic.cz >>>=20 >>>=20 >>> Dana Blair dblair@cisco.com >>> Dean Bogdanovic deanb@juniper.net 10 ACL Yang Mo= del >>>=20 >>> Mahesh Jethanandani mjethanandani@gmail.com 10 BFD Yang Mo= del >>=20 >> _______________________________________________ >> netmod mailing list >> netmod@ietf.org >> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/netmod >=20 From nobody Tue Nov 4 09:30:14 2014 Return-Path: X-Original-To: netmod@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: netmod@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id E2C1D1A9240 for ; Tue, 4 Nov 2014 09:30:13 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.496 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.496 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, RP_MATCHES_RCVD=-0.594, SPF_HELO_PASS=-0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id UixZVflgaY9y for ; Tue, 4 Nov 2014 09:30:12 -0800 (PST) Received: from lucidvision.com (lucidvision.com [72.71.250.34]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id DB1331A0077 for ; Tue, 4 Nov 2014 09:30:11 -0800 (PST) Received: from [10.5.10.219] (unknown [93.158.35.5]) by lucidvision.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1ABAB28FB037; Tue, 4 Nov 2014 12:30:10 -0500 (EST) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Mime-Version: 1.0 (1.0) From: Thomas Nadeau X-Mailer: iPhone Mail (12B411) In-Reply-To: Date: Tue, 4 Nov 2014 18:30:07 +0100 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Message-Id: <0C6483B6-3555-4ABA-A858-6DA141C626B3@lucidvision.com> References: <0AC1F16A-67FA-477B-8F4E-9DE293D9C746@lucidvision.com> To: "Eric Voit (evoit)" Archived-At: http://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/netmod/kP96I-qi5HMZbQJvmrdX8Q5mTuc Cc: "netmod-chairs@tools.ietf.org" , NETMOD Working Group Subject: Re: [netmod] current IETF91 Netmod Preliminary Agenda X-BeenThere: netmod@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: NETMOD WG list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 04 Nov 2014 17:30:14 -0000 On Nov 4, 2014, at 6:24 PM, Eric Voit (evoit) wrote: >> From: netmod, November 04, 2014 12:10 PM >> On Tue, Nov 4, 2014 at 8:36 AM, Thomas D. Nadeau >> wrote: >>>=20 >>> Sorry for replying to my own post, but I forgot to mention this i= s an >> initial/draft agenda. Please comment/bash ASAP. >>=20 >> I will bash.... >>=20 >> It has been a tradition to discuss chartered work before want-to-be-chart= ered >> work. >> I see that is no longer the case. YANG "Peer Mount Requirements" is a >> contentious topic and will probably go over 15 minutes. Is this discussi= on limited >> to the YANG language aspects or will the protocol aspects be on the agend= a as >> well? >=20 > I agree 15 minutes might be insufficient. I was hoping the agenda would h= it the four related drafts. Discussions should range from requirements, to p= rotocols, to example YANG models. >=20 > (1) Requirements for Peer Mounting of YANG subtrees from Remote Datastore= s > draft-voit-netmod-peer-mount-requirements-01.txt >=20 > (2) Mounting YANG-Defined Information from Remote Datastores=20 > draft-clemm-netmod-mount-02.txt >=20 > (3) Subscribing to datastore push updates > draft-netmod-clemm-datastore-push-00.txt >=20 > (4) Cloud SLA YANG Model incorporating Peer Mount Semantics > draft-tripathy-cloud-sla-yang-model-00.txt >=20 > Tom, could you include these four drafts? Both Alex and I will be in the= room to split time on the discussions. Yes I meant to. We also have plenty of runway so we can give 15 min to each d= oc. Tom=20 >=20 > Thanks, > Eric >=20 >> I notice YANG 1.1 is not on the agenda at all. >> I know Martin and Juergen cannot be there, but we have support for remote= >> attendance and there are plenty of open issues to discuss. >>=20 >>=20 >>>=20 >>> --Tom >>=20 >> Andy >>=20 >>>=20 >>>=20 >>>> On Nov 4, 2014:4:03 PM, at 4:03 PM, Thomas D. Nadeau >> wrote: >>>>=20 >>>>=20 >>>> This is the current agenda I have to-date. Are there any other req= uests for >> discussion slots? >>>>=20 >>>> --Tom >>>>=20 >>>>=20 >>>>=20 >>>> Peer Mount Discussion/drafts 15 min Eric Voit evoit@cisco.com >>>>=20 >>>> http://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-voit-netmod-peer-mount-requirem >>>> ents/ >>>>=20 >>>> =E2=80=9CDesign Teams=E2=80=9D update. 10 min jason.ster= ne@alcatel-lucent.com >>>>=20 >>>> o List of all known =E2=80=9Cdesign teams=E2=80=9D that a= re working on >>>> YANG models (especially ones that may be >>>> progressing outside of the IETF mailing lists) >>>>=20 >>>> o Ideally a brief status update from one of the primary >>>> leaders/contributors (i.e. a few bullet points / 1= -2 minutes) >>>> for each one (not to discuss the technical details= of specific >>>> models =E2=80=93 that could be other agenda items)= >>>>=20 >>>> YANG conformance issues. 10 min Andy Bierman Andy Bierman >> >>>>=20 >>>> http://www.ietf.org/id/draft-bierman-netmod-yang-conformance-04.txt >>>>=20 >>>> draft-ietf-netmod-routing-cfg-16 5 Lada Lhotk= a lhotka@nic.cz >>>> draft-ietf-netmod-yang-json-01 5 Lada Lhotk= a lhotka@nic.cz >>>> draft-lhotka-netmod-yang-metadata-00 5 Lada Lhotk= a >> lhotka@nic.cz >>>>=20 >>>>=20 >>>> Dana Blair dblair@cisco.com >>>> Dean Bogdanovic deanb@juniper.net 10 ACL Yang M= odel >>>>=20 >>>> Mahesh Jethanandani mjethanandani@gmail.com 10 BFD Yang >> Model >>>=20 >>> _______________________________________________ >>> netmod mailing list >>> netmod@ietf.org >>> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/netmod >>=20 >> _______________________________________________ >> netmod mailing list >> netmod@ietf.org >> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/netmod From nobody Tue Nov 4 09:30:43 2014 Return-Path: X-Original-To: netmod@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: netmod@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 341881AC3B2 for ; Tue, 4 Nov 2014 09:30:41 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -15.095 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-15.095 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_HI=-5, RP_MATCHES_RCVD=-0.594, SPF_PASS=-0.001, USER_IN_DEF_DKIM_WL=-7.5] autolearn=ham Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id PL1ngQTvPdsy for ; Tue, 4 Nov 2014 09:30:39 -0800 (PST) Received: from aer-iport-3.cisco.com (aer-iport-3.cisco.com [173.38.203.53]) (using TLSv1 with cipher RC4-SHA (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 6D79B1A0077 for ; Tue, 4 Nov 2014 09:30:39 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/simple; d=cisco.com; i=@cisco.com; l=3103; q=dns/txt; s=iport; t=1415122239; x=1416331839; h=message-id:date:from:mime-version:to:cc:subject: references:in-reply-to:content-transfer-encoding; bh=nOAnMkBjUzVOg1pMOaMiZdF4vqDuxn118u2CXufHm1Q=; b=EPpzgkX/9a+6ZQldzXec7WT8h9nx6/vuxDPSAY/+td+qblcVRDq6QdVL Y/ucyw5Ssl4wO+c49kl7LtfnXmtbhr0KElrMSvlPcSlKW4eIPxGoHWh4G ATolORHTv9R9ZXNdC9k5tBEwvQyMLWFADpqWzD7FCy0dEsd5wT06PGTdr w=; X-IronPort-Anti-Spam-Filtered: true X-IronPort-Anti-Spam-Result: ArsEAOUMWVStJssW/2dsb2JhbABbg2JYgwbLTAyGd1QCgTkBAQEBAX2EAwEBBAEBASAPAQU2CgEQCxgCAgUWCwICCQMCAQIBDwYwBgEMAQUCAQEFiCMDEg24ZY5fDYYpAQEBAQEBAQEBAQEBAQEBAQEBAQEBF4EtjSmBYlgHgneBVAEElm+EREOCEYExEiuDD4J3hylChnCDeTwvAYEFgUUBAQE X-IronPort-AV: E=Sophos;i="5.07,313,1413244800"; d="scan'208";a="230879612" Received: from aer-iport-nat.cisco.com (HELO aer-core-3.cisco.com) ([173.38.203.22]) by aer-iport-3.cisco.com with ESMTP; 04 Nov 2014 17:30:26 +0000 Received: from [10.60.67.84] (ams-bclaise-8913.cisco.com [10.60.67.84]) by aer-core-3.cisco.com (8.14.5/8.14.5) with ESMTP id sA4HUQTm031676; Tue, 4 Nov 2014 17:30:26 GMT Message-ID: <54590D32.4040007@cisco.com> Date: Tue, 04 Nov 2014 18:30:26 +0100 From: Benoit Claise User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 6.1; WOW64; rv:24.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/24.7.0 MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Andy Bierman , "Thomas D. Nadeau" References: <0AC1F16A-67FA-477B-8F4E-9DE293D9C746@lucidvision.com> In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Archived-At: http://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/netmod/35qDngfe5587ItqjqDAhyidlYz0 Cc: "netmod-chairs@tools.ietf.org" , NETMOD Working Group Subject: Re: [netmod] current IETF91 Netmod Preliminary Agenda X-BeenThere: netmod@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: NETMOD WG list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 04 Nov 2014 17:30:41 -0000 On 04/11/2014 18:10, Andy Bierman wrote: > On Tue, Nov 4, 2014 at 8:36 AM, Thomas D. Nadeau > wrote: >> Sorry for replying to my own post, but I forgot to mention this is an initial/draft agenda. Please comment/bash ASAP. > I will bash.... > > It has been a tradition to discuss chartered work before > want-to-be-chartered work. And that's still the right thing to do. And btw, since the syslog YANG adopted has been accepted as WG document, this should be presented. Regards, Benoit > I see that is no longer the case. YANG "Peer Mount Requirements" is a > contentious > topic and will probably go over 15 minutes. Is this discussion > limited to the YANG > language aspects or will the protocol aspects be on the agenda as well? > > I notice YANG 1.1 is not on the agenda at all. > I know Martin and Juergen cannot be there, but we have > support for remote attendance and there are plenty of > open issues to discuss. > > >> --Tom > Andy > >> >>> On Nov 4, 2014:4:03 PM, at 4:03 PM, Thomas D. Nadeau wrote: >>> >>> >>> This is the current agenda I have to-date. Are there any other requests for discussion slots? >>> >>> --Tom >>> >>> >>> >>> Peer Mount Discussion/drafts 15 min Eric Voit evoit@cisco.com >>> http://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-voit-netmod-peer-mount-requirements/ >>> >>> “Design Teams†update. 10 min jason.sterne@alcatel-lucent.com >>> >>> o List of all known “design teams†that are working on >>> YANG models (especially ones that may be >>> progressing outside of the IETF mailing lists) >>> >>> o Ideally a brief status update from one of the primary >>> leaders/contributors (i.e. a few bullet points / 1-2 minutes) >>> for each one (not to discuss the technical details of specific >>> models – that could be other agenda items) >>> >>> YANG conformance issues. 10 min Andy Bierman Andy Bierman >>> http://www.ietf.org/id/draft-bierman-netmod-yang-conformance-04.txt >>> >>> draft-ietf-netmod-routing-cfg-16 5 Lada Lhotka lhotka@nic.cz >>> draft-ietf-netmod-yang-json-01 5 Lada Lhotka lhotka@nic.cz >>> draft-lhotka-netmod-yang-metadata-00 5 Lada Lhotka lhotka@nic.cz >>> >>> >>> Dana Blair dblair@cisco.com >>> Dean Bogdanovic deanb@juniper.net 10 ACL Yang Model >>> >>> Mahesh Jethanandani mjethanandani@gmail.com 10 BFD Yang Model >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >> _______________________________________________ >> netmod mailing list >> netmod@ietf.org >> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/netmod > _______________________________________________ > netmod mailing list > netmod@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/netmod From nobody Tue Nov 4 10:10:34 2014 Return-Path: X-Original-To: netmod@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: netmod@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4C7BC1A1A27 for ; Tue, 4 Nov 2014 10:10:32 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.979 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.979 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, FM_FORGED_GMAIL=0.622, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW=-0.7, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id rHBzUJTGQKoG for ; Tue, 4 Nov 2014 10:10:30 -0800 (PST) Received: from mail-qg0-f54.google.com (mail-qg0-f54.google.com [209.85.192.54]) (using TLSv1 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-RC4-SHA (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 49B1A1A1B6B for ; Tue, 4 Nov 2014 10:10:29 -0800 (PST) Received: by mail-qg0-f54.google.com with SMTP id q108so11082077qgd.27 for ; Tue, 04 Nov 2014 10:10:26 -0800 (PST) X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20130820; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:in-reply-to:references:date :message-id:subject:from:to:cc:content-type :content-transfer-encoding; bh=Pysf2I4jBt0Mb7jenXN76p2yTg6r3eYF+KageqfybWM=; b=M1m9kLkw857cMfW2TP/KVyjTHhDfGGHNzwibN7NaYT7AhpoMTbHvgar2Y2wklUrUZk yT556WkhZqkS3jUZokV9tW8NBos187FPSABo7NmDmF8u5rcTrBAiDZjqDydlHHxDD+rs 65G6fR01a4VT1dQaqIdecoeW69xd8FuEvXdBGzX7g+9Vhlud2FVUZrDJSQgRh8PobjYM rUqeFhntTWyrlMWxc+dmhwLmGbzQVJqnuYrCHSIBqXShrnrV1/cPOKekG8J3Wjf7vRbQ w08JnYEF0F0CkNNsnKqweN8C3lRqwrbFar32LTVRgMx2n/bc7WVA1dKB92+GwwjgSzc1 wFcA== X-Gm-Message-State: ALoCoQm9A1PsOvD5giUDU6c6lPXoY8Mnf33TvAw/TmNQwQ9P0Y2uhQ5Q39J3BBPV8/w6Ynj0HijX MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Received: by 10.229.79.132 with SMTP id p4mr78647260qck.14.1415124626375; Tue, 04 Nov 2014 10:10:26 -0800 (PST) Received: by 10.140.37.52 with HTTP; Tue, 4 Nov 2014 10:10:26 -0800 (PST) In-Reply-To: <5050899F-242D-4F95-8A6A-3FA88A482783@lucidvision.com> References: <0AC1F16A-67FA-477B-8F4E-9DE293D9C746@lucidvision.com> <5050899F-242D-4F95-8A6A-3FA88A482783@lucidvision.com> Date: Tue, 4 Nov 2014 10:10:26 -0800 Message-ID: From: Andy Bierman To: Thomas Nadeau Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Archived-At: http://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/netmod/axEyali5Utly3Xa_UDNQguafWGA Cc: "netmod-chairs@tools.ietf.org" , NETMOD Working Group Subject: Re: [netmod] current IETF91 Netmod Preliminary Agenda X-BeenThere: netmod@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: NETMOD WG list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 04 Nov 2014 18:10:32 -0000 On Tue, Nov 4, 2014 at 9:28 AM, Thomas Nadeau wro= te: > > > > >> On Nov 4, 2014, at 6:10 PM, Andy Bierman wrote: >> >> On Tue, Nov 4, 2014 at 8:36 AM, Thomas D. Nadeau >> wrote: >>> >>> Sorry for replying to my own post, but I forgot to mention this = is an initial/draft agenda. Please comment/bash ASAP. >> >> I will bash.... >> >> It has been a tradition to discuss chartered work before >> want-to-be-chartered work. >> I see that is no longer the case. YANG "Peer Mount Requirements" is a >> contentious >> topic and will probably go over 15 minutes. Is this discussion >> limited to the YANG >> language aspects or will the protocol aspects be on the agenda as well? > > There are some in scope and some maybe-in-scope later parts of this. Les = discuss how best to structure the discussion. > > >> >> I notice YANG 1.1 is not on the agenda at all. >> I know Martin and Juergen cannot be there, but we have >> support for remote attendance and there are plenty of >> open issues to discuss. > > No one volunteered the section. Shall I put you down to lead the discussi= on ? ;) > OK -- I will lead the YANG 1.1 discussion. Instead of a hour on 4 YANG mount drafts on Thursday, I suggest spending 30 - 45 minutes on the YANG 1.1 open issue list. There is plenty of time on Friday to discuss unchartered work. > Tom > > Andy >> >> >>> >>> --Tom >> >> Andy >> >>> >>> >>>> On Nov 4, 2014:4:03 PM, at 4:03 PM, Thomas D. Nadeau wrote: >>>> >>>> >>>> This is the current agenda I have to-date. Are there any other re= quests for discussion slots? >>>> >>>> --Tom >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> Peer Mount Discussion/drafts 15 min Eric Voit evoit@cisco.com >>>> http://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-voit-netmod-peer-mount-requ= irements/ >>>> >>>> =E2=80=9CDesign Teams=E2=80=9D update. 10 min jason.ste= rne@alcatel-lucent.com >>>> >>>> o List of all known =E2=80=9Cdesign teams=E2=80=9D that= are working on >>>> YANG models (especially ones that may be >>>> progressing outside of the IETF mailing lists) >>>> >>>> o Ideally a brief status update from one of the primary >>>> leaders/contributors (i.e. a few bullet points / = 1-2 minutes) >>>> for each one (not to discuss the technical detail= s of specific >>>> models =E2=80=93 that could be other agenda items= ) >>>> >>>> YANG conformance issues. 10 min Andy Bierman Andy Bierman= >>>> http://www.ietf.org/id/draft-bierman-netmod-yang-conformance-04.t= xt >>>> >>>> draft-ietf-netmod-routing-cfg-16 5 Lada Lhot= ka lhotka@nic.cz >>>> draft-ietf-netmod-yang-json-01 5 Lada Lhot= ka lhotka@nic.cz >>>> draft-lhotka-netmod-yang-metadata-00 5 Lada Lhot= ka lhotka@nic.cz >>>> >>>> >>>> Dana Blair dblair@cisco.com >>>> Dean Bogdanovic deanb@juniper.net 10 ACL Yang = Model >>>> >>>> Mahesh Jethanandani mjethanandani@gmail.com 10 BFD Yang = Model >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> netmod mailing list >>> netmod@ietf.org >>> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/netmod >> From nobody Tue Nov 4 10:36:36 2014 Return-Path: X-Original-To: netmod@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: netmod@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8E2391A6F20 for ; Tue, 4 Nov 2014 10:36:33 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.999 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.999 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id qAkNJ2veyUWh for ; Tue, 4 Nov 2014 10:36:30 -0800 (PST) Received: from mail-qc0-x235.google.com (mail-qc0-x235.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:400d:c01::235]) (using TLSv1 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-RC4-SHA (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id E77B31A3BA7 for ; Tue, 4 Nov 2014 10:36:29 -0800 (PST) Received: by mail-qc0-f181.google.com with SMTP id w7so11266702qcr.40 for ; Tue, 04 Nov 2014 10:36:29 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20120113; h=mime-version:references:from:date:message-id:subject:to:cc :content-type; bh=Yh4PKiWonp9z90xrh51wKzMyuBq/jiqjiPsiyl6PGRE=; b=mWrIYE1fE6hj6DYyH+c5WiC4eymKFSW1Uj/dhn9qgmHFX6PzCQ9ZrneMvY3AMnFybm 4RUgoHv0bSQy3kVFQf+WgjjRU6hfFXXotrWsjMot8s95fAxYjOJS7u0xIzrZbI/Vy5Fw hVzYhlE+95jFM5LW8ymZi6KYQwm9nuTYUke1Y7Joq1QBbn0wu4HKC4uAZ71BON4W334W 3gHpdNQno9jS7pNUQqDaaGC5c9olz7OCcpwjBi7Laht7ZUzsHvjeLOtsE37cMFSmFZTF Ur/Z0FlDOtSVtnHlm3dAh4SAmqbOIIF8u3q9TKcHEtfJJNoeQPkjn52MANbYx8jUqytp j2BQ== X-Received: by 10.140.108.182 with SMTP id j51mr75379664qgf.27.1415126188998; Tue, 04 Nov 2014 10:36:28 -0800 (PST) MIME-Version: 1.0 References: <0AC1F16A-67FA-477B-8F4E-9DE293D9C746@lucidvision.com> <5050899F-242D-4F95-8A6A-3FA88A482783@lucidvision.com> From: Mahesh Jethanandani Date: Tue, 04 Nov 2014 18:36:27 +0000 Message-ID: To: Andy Bierman , Thomas Nadeau Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=001a113a54a4cec90705070cbd9d Archived-At: http://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/netmod/k2wmDtjgwsffo9aao9mn0YVRDeU Cc: "netmod-chairs@tools.ietf.org" , NETMOD Working Group Subject: Re: [netmod] current IETF91 Netmod Preliminary Agenda X-BeenThere: netmod@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: NETMOD WG list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 04 Nov 2014 18:36:33 -0000 --001a113a54a4cec90705070cbd9d Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Tom, the Thursday session is one hour long. The discussion of individual design teams is 35 min. long not counting the time the chairs need to agenda bashing and giving updates. Andy needs 10 min. for conformance and 30-45 min. to discuss YANG 1.1. Seems we need to divide up 1.1 discussion between Thursday and Friday leaving whatever non-chartered work for any remaining time. On Tue Nov 04 2014 at 10:10:37 AM Andy Bierman wrote: > On Tue, Nov 4, 2014 at 9:28 AM, Thomas Nadeau > wrote: > > > > > > > > > >> On Nov 4, 2014, at 6:10 PM, Andy Bierman wrote: > >> > >> On Tue, Nov 4, 2014 at 8:36 AM, Thomas D. Nadeau > >> wrote: > >>> > >>> Sorry for replying to my own post, but I forgot to mention thi= s > is an initial/draft agenda. Please comment/bash ASAP. > >> > >> I will bash.... > >> > >> It has been a tradition to discuss chartered work before > >> want-to-be-chartered work. > >> I see that is no longer the case. YANG "Peer Mount Requirements" is a > >> contentious > >> topic and will probably go over 15 minutes. Is this discussion > >> limited to the YANG > >> language aspects or will the protocol aspects be on the agenda as well= ? > > > > There are some in scope and some maybe-in-scope later parts of this. Le= s > discuss how best to structure the discussion. > > > > > >> > >> I notice YANG 1.1 is not on the agenda at all. > >> I know Martin and Juergen cannot be there, but we have > >> support for remote attendance and there are plenty of > >> open issues to discuss. > > > > No one volunteered the section. Shall I put you down to lead the > discussion ? ;) > > > > OK -- I will lead the YANG 1.1 discussion. > Instead of a hour on 4 YANG mount drafts on Thursday, > I suggest spending 30 - 45 minutes on the YANG 1.1 > open issue list. > > There is plenty of time on Friday to discuss unchartered work. > > > Tom > > > > > > Andy > > >> > >> > >>> > >>> --Tom > >> > >> Andy > >> > >>> > >>> > >>>> On Nov 4, 2014:4:03 PM, at 4:03 PM, Thomas D. Nadeau < > tnadeau@lucidvision.com> wrote: > >>>> > >>>> > >>>> This is the current agenda I have to-date. Are there any other > requests for discussion slots? > >>>> > >>>> --Tom > >>>> > >>>> > >>>> > >>>> Peer Mount Discussion/drafts 15 min Eric Voit > evoit@cisco.com > >>>> http://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-voit-netmod-peer- > mount-requirements/ > >>>> > >>>> =E2=80=9CDesign Teams=E2=80=9D update. 10 min > jason.sterne@alcatel-lucent.com > >>>> > >>>> o List of all known =E2=80=9Cdesign teams=E2=80=9D th= at are working on > >>>> YANG models (especially ones that may be > >>>> progressing outside of the IETF mailing lists) > >>>> > >>>> o Ideally a brief status update from one of the prima= ry > >>>> leaders/contributors (i.e. a few bullet points = / > 1-2 minutes) > >>>> for each one (not to discuss the technical > details of specific > >>>> models =E2=80=93 that could be other agenda ite= ms) > >>>> > >>>> YANG conformance issues. 10 min Andy Bierman Andy > Bierman > >>>> http://www.ietf.org/id/draft-bierman-netmod-yang- > conformance-04.txt > >>>> > >>>> draft-ietf-netmod-routing-cfg-16 5 Lada > Lhotka lhotka@nic.cz > >>>> draft-ietf-netmod-yang-json-01 5 Lada > Lhotka lhotka@nic.cz > >>>> draft-lhotka-netmod-yang-metadata-00 5 Lada > Lhotka lhotka@nic.cz > >>>> > >>>> > >>>> Dana Blair dblair@cisco.com > >>>> Dean Bogdanovic deanb@juniper.net 10 ACL > Yang Model > >>>> > >>>> Mahesh Jethanandani mjethanandani@gmail.com 10 BFD > Yang Model > >>> > >>> _______________________________________________ > >>> netmod mailing list > >>> netmod@ietf.org > >>> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/netmod > >> > > _______________________________________________ > netmod mailing list > netmod@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/netmod > --001a113a54a4cec90705070cbd9d Content-Type: text/html; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Tom, the Thursday session is one hour long. The discussion of individual de= sign teams is 35 min. long not counting the time the chairs need to agenda = bashing and giving updates. Andy needs 10 min. for conformance and 30-45 mi= n. to discuss YANG 1.1. Seems we need to divide up 1.1 discussion between T= hursday and Friday leaving whatever non-chartered work for any remaining ti= me.

On Tue Nov 04 2014 at 10:10:37 AM And= y Bierman <andy@yumaworks.com&= gt; wrote:
On Tue, Nov 4, 2014 at 9:28 AM= , Thomas Nadeau <tnadeau@lucidvision.com> wrote:
>
>
>
>
>> On Nov 4, 2014, at 6:10 PM, Andy Bierman <andy@yumaworks.com> wrote:
>>
>> On Tue, Nov 4, 2014 at 8:36 AM, Thomas D. Nadeau
>> <t= nadeau@lucidvision.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 Sorry for replying to my own post, = but I forgot to mention this is an initial/draft agenda. Please comment/bas= h ASAP.
>>
>> I will bash....
>>
>> It has been a tradition to discuss chartered work before
>> want-to-be-chartered work.
>> I see that is no longer the case. YANG "Peer Mount Requiremen= ts" is a
>> contentious
>> topic and will probably go over 15 minutes.=C2=A0 Is this discussi= on
>> limited to the YANG
>> language aspects or will the protocol aspects be on the agenda as = well?
>
> There are some in scope and some maybe-in-scope later parts of this. L= es discuss how best to structure the discussion.
>
>
>>
>> I notice YANG 1.1 is not on the agenda at all.
>> I know Martin and Juergen cannot be there, but we have
>> support for remote attendance and there are plenty of
>> open issues to discuss.
>
> No one volunteered the section. Shall I put you down to lead the discu= ssion ? ;)
>

OK -- I will lead the YANG 1.1 discussion.
Instead of a hour on 4 YANG mount drafts on Thursday,
I suggest spending 30 - 45 minutes on the YANG 1.1
open issue list.

There is plenty of time on Friday to discuss unchartered work.

> Tom
>
>

Andy

>>
>>
>>>
>>>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 --Tom
>>
>> Andy
>>
>>>
>>>
>>>> On Nov 4, 2014:4:03 PM, at 4:03 PM, Thomas D. Nadeau <<= a href=3D"mailto:tnadeau@lucidvision.com" target=3D"_blank">tnadeau@lucidvi= sion.com> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 This is the current agenda I have to-d= ate. Are there any other requests for discussion slots?
>>>>
>>>>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 --Tom
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 Peer Mount Discussion/drafts=C2=A0 =C2= =A0 15 min=C2=A0 Eric Voit evoit@cisco.com
>>>>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 http://d= atatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-voit-netmod-peer-mount-requirem= ents/
>>>>
>>>>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =E2=80=9CDesign Teams=E2=80=9D update.= =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 10 min=C2=A0 jason.sterne@alcatel-lucent.com
>>>>
>>>>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 o=C2=A0 = =C2=A0List of all known =E2=80=9Cdesign teams=E2=80=9D that are working on<= br> >>>>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2= =A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 YANG models (especially ones that may be
>>>>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2= =A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 progressing outside of the IETF mailing lists)
>>>>
>>>>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 o=C2=A0 = =C2=A0Ideally a brief status update from one of the primary
>>>>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2= =A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 leaders/contributors (i.e. a few bullet points / 1-2 minu= tes)
>>>>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2= =A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 for each one (not to discuss the technical details of spe= cific
>>>>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2= =A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 models =E2=80=93 that could be other agenda items)
>>>>
>>>>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 YANG conformance issues.=C2=A0 =C2=A0 = =C2=A0 =C2=A0 10 min=C2=A0 Andy Bierman Andy Bierman <andy@yumaworks.com>
>>>>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 http://www.ietf= .org/id/draft-bierman-netmod-yang-conformance-04.txt
>>>>
>>>>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 draft-ietf-netmod-routing-cfg-1= 6=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 5=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2= =A0 =C2=A0Lada Lhotka lh= otka@nic.cz
>>>>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 draft-ietf-netmod-yang-json-01=C2=A0 = =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 5=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2= =A0 =C2=A0Lada Lhotka lh= otka@nic.cz
>>>>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 draft-lhotka-netmod-yang-metada= ta-00=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 5=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0= Lada Lhotka lhotka@nic.c= z
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 Dana Blair dblair@cisco.com
>>>>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 Dean Bogdanovic deanb@juniper.net=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 = =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A010=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 ACL Yang Model
>>>>
>>>>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 Mahesh Jethanandani mjethanandani@gmail.com=C2= =A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A010=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 BFD Yang Model
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> netmod mailing list
>>> netmod@ie= tf.org
>>> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/netmod
>>

_______________________________________________
netmod mailing list
netmod@ietf.org = https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/netmod
--001a113a54a4cec90705070cbd9d-- From nobody Tue Nov 4 10:58:00 2014 Return-Path: X-Original-To: netmod@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: netmod@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id B940D1A6EE7 for ; Tue, 4 Nov 2014 10:57:59 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.979 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.979 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, FM_FORGED_GMAIL=0.622, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW=-0.7, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id UGk-pRueVkLX for ; Tue, 4 Nov 2014 10:57:57 -0800 (PST) Received: from mail-qa0-f41.google.com (mail-qa0-f41.google.com [209.85.216.41]) (using TLSv1 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-RC4-SHA (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 4E0151A6F7D for ; Tue, 4 Nov 2014 10:57:31 -0800 (PST) Received: by mail-qa0-f41.google.com with SMTP id s7so2011152qap.0 for ; Tue, 04 Nov 2014 10:57:30 -0800 (PST) X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20130820; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:in-reply-to:references:date :message-id:subject:from:to:cc:content-type :content-transfer-encoding; bh=ZJ+CZLsnh2WTaYjenqeZMGSo47wLjgR3AbVcs58FTdw=; b=cNDMAh6JpbFOqZCiEFiNE/ANUX6f5rL1lMEeQT65bRuETV54oawyegZkM60E3BhGOA YQPLcrbIQ2oOF/0rYMwHbk/GGhhQ72EdxyyeOybEpSgQPqNYcUCCpG6JJULkQGIyCIWH fMPvPt7wNvNm3H7m5RtQeVe/3aPdIksP3gznEERCCPuYt5aXkj2eQL/+vqTJhVUqOiSz hvKc3yNXtnoCLfPI3jjhw7zxWj6WVHBN0Ai2UFOV6Ep1Wnf8zAkDKNeNohLJP8KTSi7+ FbcyhemwdBxRLEzNskyNU7M3Z/Dg0F+4uG24gt52+Uwp1EtMfaf/b4Qt1z9FlmxHYLVL eY1Q== X-Gm-Message-State: ALoCoQnPMk/aA+Aq+EKW0w1RjERLcaee4B71SmNZ8kWZqu+/Q9j+iFUjygx6KV1uoxli/oyoUyUC MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Received: by 10.224.134.198 with SMTP id k6mr53229170qat.88.1415127450441; Tue, 04 Nov 2014 10:57:30 -0800 (PST) Received: by 10.140.37.52 with HTTP; Tue, 4 Nov 2014 10:57:30 -0800 (PST) In-Reply-To: References: <0AC1F16A-67FA-477B-8F4E-9DE293D9C746@lucidvision.com> <5050899F-242D-4F95-8A6A-3FA88A482783@lucidvision.com> Date: Tue, 4 Nov 2014 10:57:30 -0800 Message-ID: From: Andy Bierman To: Mahesh Jethanandani Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Archived-At: http://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/netmod/cpIpgvdfPPZwXHTxlTHJ7HX-jAE Cc: "netmod-chairs@tools.ietf.org" , NETMOD Working Group Subject: Re: [netmod] current IETF91 Netmod Preliminary Agenda X-BeenThere: netmod@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: NETMOD WG list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 04 Nov 2014 18:57:59 -0000 Hi, It is 1640 - 1910 : 2.5 hours None of these design teams working on NETMOD chartered drafts. IMO we should be focusing on finishing chartered NETMOD work. I don't agree these IETF WG meetings should be slideware forums to promote anything related to YANG. (There should be a meeting slot for this sort of thing -- something between a Bar Bof and a real BoF). Andy On Tue, Nov 4, 2014 at 10:36 AM, Mahesh Jethanandani wrote: > Tom, the Thursday session is one hour long. The discussion of individual > design teams is 35 min. long not counting the time the chairs need to age= nda > bashing and giving updates. Andy needs 10 min. for conformance and 30-45 > min. to discuss YANG 1.1. Seems we need to divide up 1.1 discussion betwe= en > Thursday and Friday leaving whatever non-chartered work for any remaining > time. > > On Tue Nov 04 2014 at 10:10:37 AM Andy Bierman wrote= : >> >> On Tue, Nov 4, 2014 at 9:28 AM, Thomas Nadeau >> wrote: >> > >> > >> > >> > >> >> On Nov 4, 2014, at 6:10 PM, Andy Bierman wrote: >> >> >> >> On Tue, Nov 4, 2014 at 8:36 AM, Thomas D. Nadeau >> >> wrote: >> >>> >> >>> Sorry for replying to my own post, but I forgot to mention th= is >> >>> is an initial/draft agenda. Please comment/bash ASAP. >> >> >> >> I will bash.... >> >> >> >> It has been a tradition to discuss chartered work before >> >> want-to-be-chartered work. >> >> I see that is no longer the case. YANG "Peer Mount Requirements" is a >> >> contentious >> >> topic and will probably go over 15 minutes. Is this discussion >> >> limited to the YANG >> >> language aspects or will the protocol aspects be on the agenda as wel= l? >> > >> > There are some in scope and some maybe-in-scope later parts of this. L= es >> > discuss how best to structure the discussion. >> > >> > >> >> >> >> I notice YANG 1.1 is not on the agenda at all. >> >> I know Martin and Juergen cannot be there, but we have >> >> support for remote attendance and there are plenty of >> >> open issues to discuss. >> > >> > No one volunteered the section. Shall I put you down to lead the >> > discussion ? ;) >> > >> >> OK -- I will lead the YANG 1.1 discussion. >> Instead of a hour on 4 YANG mount drafts on Thursday, >> I suggest spending 30 - 45 minutes on the YANG 1.1 >> open issue list. >> >> There is plenty of time on Friday to discuss unchartered work. >> >> > Tom >> > >> > >> >> Andy >> >> >> >> >> >> >>> >> >>> --Tom >> >> >> >> Andy >> >> >> >>> >> >>> >> >>>> On Nov 4, 2014:4:03 PM, at 4:03 PM, Thomas D. Nadeau >> >>>> wrote: >> >>>> >> >>>> >> >>>> This is the current agenda I have to-date. Are there any other >> >>>> requests for discussion slots? >> >>>> >> >>>> --Tom >> >>>> >> >>>> >> >>>> >> >>>> Peer Mount Discussion/drafts 15 min Eric Voit >> >>>> evoit@cisco.com >> >>>> >> >>>> http://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-voit-netmod-peer-mount-requir= ements/ >> >>>> >> >>>> =E2=80=9CDesign Teams=E2=80=9D update. 10 min >> >>>> jason.sterne@alcatel-lucent.com >> >>>> >> >>>> o List of all known =E2=80=9Cdesign teams=E2=80=9D t= hat are working on >> >>>> YANG models (especially ones that may be >> >>>> progressing outside of the IETF mailing lists) >> >>>> >> >>>> o Ideally a brief status update from one of the >> >>>> primary >> >>>> leaders/contributors (i.e. a few bullet points= / >> >>>> 1-2 minutes) >> >>>> for each one (not to discuss the technical >> >>>> details of specific >> >>>> models =E2=80=93 that could be other agenda it= ems) >> >>>> >> >>>> YANG conformance issues. 10 min Andy Bierman Andy >> >>>> Bierman >> >>>> >> >>>> http://www.ietf.org/id/draft-bierman-netmod-yang-conformance-04.txt >> >>>> >> >>>> draft-ietf-netmod-routing-cfg-16 5 Lada >> >>>> Lhotka lhotka@nic.cz >> >>>> draft-ietf-netmod-yang-json-01 5 Lada >> >>>> Lhotka lhotka@nic.cz >> >>>> draft-lhotka-netmod-yang-metadata-00 5 Lada >> >>>> Lhotka lhotka@nic.cz >> >>>> >> >>>> >> >>>> Dana Blair dblair@cisco.com >> >>>> Dean Bogdanovic deanb@juniper.net 10 ACL Ya= ng >> >>>> Model >> >>>> >> >>>> Mahesh Jethanandani mjethanandani@gmail.com 10 BFD Ya= ng >> >>>> Model >> >>> >> >>> _______________________________________________ >> >>> netmod mailing list >> >>> netmod@ietf.org >> >>> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/netmod >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> netmod mailing list >> netmod@ietf.org >> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/netmod From nobody Tue Nov 4 14:16:34 2014 Return-Path: X-Original-To: netmod@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: netmod@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 02D181A016C for ; Tue, 4 Nov 2014 14:16:33 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.999 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.999 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id GX4eQkhxyORE for ; Tue, 4 Nov 2014 14:16:30 -0800 (PST) Received: from mail-qc0-x22b.google.com (mail-qc0-x22b.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:400d:c01::22b]) (using TLSv1 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-RC4-SHA (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 971081A015B for ; Tue, 4 Nov 2014 14:16:30 -0800 (PST) Received: by mail-qc0-f171.google.com with SMTP id m20so11948312qcx.30 for ; Tue, 04 Nov 2014 14:16:28 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20120113; h=mime-version:references:from:date:message-id:subject:to:cc :content-type; bh=PVB88Yecfq64lrqIwNAolXSqWfjoR8YTZSjx0GrUsXE=; b=tnA8nZev10qj806LAnRrTfxk6f3M2j1o9GBxUvFMkezUs7TshpSbY/tVZLk6bM6ie3 eaSDb+r1jVSqxCyIhn6bdqU39QU/hT3OZBuZA/qEKpVoHlmlJv6QRhej8naL+mEjjAjl ocsRZIHZdFpetsYODey0gnJxvh7Tx1la3eS1nGMzRxYaVlvT1lwWWryuD3tfOHMKlEDu k1yylTVeE+M9EJf3xqwoxOCD5fmVXQxHFbK7apOs46NzhC0wxIg9qPmVp2w8DPj6dA+Y OIh58ObB2WpsG2uD64AfqAg5nkiOLMuubw41B2DhZxnCQJ4W9ZK+6t0cwHT7ijZdOf0r Rhrg== X-Received: by 10.140.108.182 with SMTP id j51mr77275758qgf.27.1415139388702; Tue, 04 Nov 2014 14:16:28 -0800 (PST) MIME-Version: 1.0 References: <79054E89-2D09-4461-8D35-8F6FA025B71F@nic.cz> <43060BE7-53EA-4B9D-B778-2FED58C0D60C@lucidvision.com> <52AE09CB-D4AB-4421-BBA4-1D9C45EA6957@gmail.com> <54590195.3010903@cisco.com> From: Mahesh Jethanandani Date: Tue, 04 Nov 2014 22:16:27 +0000 Message-ID: To: Benoit Claise , "Thomas D. Nadeau" Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=001a113a54a49249ea05070fd0a1 Archived-At: http://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/netmod/BK_2swhTMQYvUO1911zXZwhpOQ0 Cc: "netmod@ietf.org" , "rtg-ads@tools.ietf.org" Subject: Re: [netmod] IETF91 NETMOD agenda ? X-BeenThere: netmod@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: NETMOD WG list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 04 Nov 2014 22:16:33 -0000 --001a113a54a49249ea05070fd0a1 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Benoit, I was going to give a quick update on the BFD YANG model, which is being presented/discussed in its own WG. On Tue Nov 04 2014 at 8:40:55 AM Benoit Claise wrote: > Mahesh, > > Not sure what exactly you want to present but let me draw your attention > that the routing-related modules should be taken care of in their > respective WG. See > http://www.ietf.org/mail-archive/web/rtg-yang-coord/current/msg00094.html > > Regards, Benoit > > Tom, > > I am giving an update on the BFD YANG model in the BFD WG. I can give a > quick update (~1-2min) in NETMOD if such an update is desired. > > *Mahesh Jethanandani* > mjethanandani@gmail.com > > On Oct 23, 2014, at 1:43 PM, "Thomas D. Nadeau" > wrote: > > > We have plenty of runway in the agenda right now so I will put it dow= n > as two items. We reserved two slots because I feel its important to > encourage discussion during the face2face meetings so insofar as I can, I > want to give you enough runway to discuss this in detail. > > --Tom > > > On Oct 23, 2014:12:13 PM, at 12:13 PM, Ladislav Lhotka > wrote: > > > Hi, > > > apart from the two WG items draft-ietf-netmod-routing-cfg-16 (to be > submitted) and draft-ietf-netmod-yang-json-01, I=E2=80=99d like to discus= s the > draft and draft-lhotka-netmod-yang-metadata-00. I think 5 minutes would b= e > enough for the latter, I could even do it together with yang-json. > > > Thanks, Lada > > > On 23 Oct 2014, at 18:02, Andy Bierman wrote: > > > > > On Tue, Oct 21, 2014 at 2:34 PM, Thomas D. Nadeau < > tnadeau@lucidvision.com> wrote: > > > Not yet. Please propose topics. > > > > I would like 15 min. to discuss YANG conformance issues, specified in > this draft: > > http://www.ietf.org/id/draft-bierman-netmod-yang-conformance-04.txt > > > These issues may get resolved in the NETCONF YANG 1.1 virtual interim > > meeting next week. If not, this topic should be discussed at the IETF > meeting. > > > > =E2=80=94Tom > > > Andy > > > > > On Oct 21, 2014:5:32 PM, at 5:32 PM, Sterne, Jason (Jason) < > jason.sterne@alcatel-lucent.com> wrote: > > > Hi all, > > > Is there a preliminary agenda for the two NETMOD sessions at IETF91 ? > > > > Some thought about topics being split between the 1st (longer) and 2nd > (shorter) sessions ? > > > Thanks, > > Jason > > > _______________________________________________ > > netmod mailing list > > netmod@ietf.org > > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/netmod > > > > _______________________________________________ > > netmod mailing list > > netmod@ietf.org > > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/netmod > > > > _______________________________________________ > > netmod mailing list > > netmod@ietf.org > > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/netmod > > > -- > > Ladislav Lhotka, CZ.NIC Labs > > PGP Key ID: E74E8C0C > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > netmod mailing list > netmod@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/netmod > > > > _______________________________________________ > netmod mailing listnetmod@ietf.orghttps://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/n= etmod > > > --001a113a54a49249ea05070fd0a1 Content-Type: text/html; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Benoit,

I was going to give a quick update on the BFD YANG mode= l, which is being presented/discussed in its own WG.



On Tue Nov 04 2014 at 8:40:55 A= M Benoit Claise <bclaise@cisco.com<= /a>> wrote:
=20 =20 =20
=20
Tom,

I am giving an update on the BFD YANG model in the BFD WG. I can give a quick update (~1-2min) in NETMOD if such an update is desired.

Mahesh Jethanandani

On Oct 23, 2014, at 1:43 PM, "Thomas D. Nadeau" <tnadeau@lucidvision= .com> wrote:


=C2=A0 =C2=A0We have plenty of runway in the agenda right = now so I will put it down as two items. We reserved two slots because I feel its important to encourage discussion during the face2face meetings so insofar as I can, I want to give you enough runway to discuss this in detail.

=C2=A0 =C2=A0--Tom


On Oct 23, 2014:12:13 PM, at 12:13 PM, Ladislav Lhotka <lhotka@nic.cz> wrote:

Hi,

apart from the two WG items draft-ietf-netmod-routing-cfg-16 (to be submitted) and draft-ietf-netmod-yang-json-01, I=E2=80=99d like to discuss t= he draft and draft-lhotka-netmod-yang-metadata-00. I think 5 minutes would be enough for the latter, I could even do it together with yang-json.

Thanks, Lada

On 23 Oct 2014, at 18:02, Andy Bierman <andy@yumaworks.com> wrote:



On Tue, Oct 21, 2014 at 2:34 PM, Thomas D. Nadeau <tnadeau@lucidvision.com> wrote:

=C2=A0 =C2=A0Not yet. Please p= ropose topics.


I would like 15 min. to discuss YANG conformance issues, specified in this draft:
http://w= ww.ietf.org/id/draft-bierman-netmod-yang-conformance-04.txt

These issues may get resolved in the NETCONF YANG 1.1 virtual interim
meeting next week. If not, this topic should be discussed at the IETF meeting.<= br>


=C2=A0 =C2=A0=E2=80=94Tom

Andy



On Oct 21, 2014:5:32 PM, at 5:32 PM, Sterne, Jason (Jason) <jason.sterne@alcatel-lucent.= com> wrote:

Hi all,

Is there a preliminary agenda for the two NETMOD sessions at IETF91 ? =C2=A0=C2= =A0=C2=A0=C2=A0

Some thought about topics being split between the 1st (longer) and 2nd (shorter) sessions ?

Thanks,
Jason

_____________________________= __________________
netmod mailing list
netmod@ietf.org
https://www.ietf.org/mailman/= listinfo/netmod


_______________________________= ________________
netmod mailing list
netmod@ietf.org
https://www.ietf.org/mailman/li= stinfo/netmod


_______________________________= ________________
netmod mailing list
netmod@ietf.org
https://www.ietf.org/mailman/li= stinfo/netmod

--
Ladislav Lhotka, CZ.NIC Labs
PGP Key ID: E74E8C0C






_______________________________________________
netmod mailing list
netmod= @ietf.org
https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/netmod


_______________________________________________
netmod mailing list
netmod@ietf.org
=
https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/netmod

--001a113a54a49249ea05070fd0a1-- From nobody Tue Nov 4 14:30:03 2014 Return-Path: X-Original-To: netmod@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: netmod@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id D3F4C1A019B for ; Tue, 4 Nov 2014 14:30:00 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -15.094 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-15.094 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_HI=-5, RP_MATCHES_RCVD=-0.594, SPF_PASS=-0.001, USER_IN_DEF_DKIM_WL=-7.5] autolearn=ham Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id VFNU8UyCfqfp for ; Tue, 4 Nov 2014 14:29:57 -0800 (PST) Received: from aer-iport-2.cisco.com (aer-iport-2.cisco.com [173.38.203.52]) (using TLSv1 with cipher RC4-SHA (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 14D441A0196 for ; Tue, 4 Nov 2014 14:29:55 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/simple; d=cisco.com; i=@cisco.com; l=38152; q=dns/txt; s=iport; t=1415140196; x=1416349796; h=message-id:date:from:mime-version:to:cc:subject: references:in-reply-to; bh=H3PKHN0PUZfuJbshIC02vi+pj5NeVqzZarJcu3vkpHk=; b=dy0FVFgzQ4EXMps/C5KSkHFEdloOzZZ4s8o+RmzEKhhbCt9zs9qXmKUq WkW5NMxAJk3FalbNL5sS5GiAGdz5J96uLh1vgB0LYTJu6R4Hd0lHsIGsc bCOYjDjuWi4LJlLPsMDLRbccmFbOQWoJ1Pjgjfe5/XVAoydn9gIYV3v3p g=; X-IronPort-Anti-Spam-Filtered: true X-IronPort-Anti-Spam-Result: ArMEALtSWVStJssW/2dsb2JhbABbAYNhWc5eAQuGd1QCgTYBAQEBAX2EAwEBBAEBASBLCgEQCQIOCgkWAQEGAwICCQMCAQIBDwYfEQYBDAEFAgEBBYgjAxINklWcX45cDYYtAQEBAQEBAQEBAQEBAQEBAQEBAQEBF45WgVcSAQFPBgGCd4FUBYRqlAKCTUOCEoExg0yCd4csQoJnhAmDeTwvAYEOgTwBAQE X-IronPort-AV: E=Sophos;i="5.07,315,1413244800"; d="scan'208,217";a="235106932" Received: from aer-iport-nat.cisco.com (HELO aer-core-2.cisco.com) ([173.38.203.22]) by aer-iport-2.cisco.com with ESMTP; 04 Nov 2014 22:29:53 +0000 Received: from [10.60.67.84] (ams-bclaise-8913.cisco.com [10.60.67.84]) by aer-core-2.cisco.com (8.14.5/8.14.5) with ESMTP id sA4MTrkM032084; Tue, 4 Nov 2014 22:29:53 GMT Message-ID: <54595361.5000907@cisco.com> Date: Tue, 04 Nov 2014 23:29:53 +0100 From: Benoit Claise User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 6.1; WOW64; rv:24.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/24.7.0 MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Mahesh Jethanandani , "Thomas D. Nadeau" References: <79054E89-2D09-4461-8D35-8F6FA025B71F@nic.cz> <43060BE7-53EA-4B9D-B778-2FED58C0D60C@lucidvision.com> <52AE09CB-D4AB-4421-BBA4-1D9C45EA6957@gmail.com> <54590195.3010903@cisco.com> In-Reply-To: Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="------------010700010202010104000309" Archived-At: http://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/netmod/XG5WkMprL7tQAAZrt_NAKVg4Kes Cc: "netmod@ietf.org" , "rtg-ads@tools.ietf.org" Subject: Re: [netmod] IETF91 NETMOD agenda ? X-BeenThere: netmod@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: NETMOD WG list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 04 Nov 2014 22:30:01 -0000 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --------------010700010202010104000309 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Mahesh, > Benoit, > > I was going to give a quick update on the BFD YANG model, which is > being presented/discussed in its own WG. I wonder which ideal outcome you want a presentation in the NETMOD WG? Here's the list of drafts that have normative or unclassified references to YANG: draft-vanderstok-core-comi-05 2014-10-27 Active draft-shi-alto-yang-json-00 2014-10-27 Active draft-shi-alto-yang-model-00 2014-10-27 Active draft-netmod-clemm-datastore-push-00 2014-10-27 Active draft-wildes-netmod-syslog-model-05 2014-10-27 Active draft-zhang-nvo3-yang-active-active-cfg-00 2014-10-27 Active draft-zaalouk-supa-configuration-model-01 2014-10-27 Active draft-wang-lime-rpc-yang-oam-management-00 2014-10-27 Active draft-vergara-flexigrid-yang-00 2014-10-27 Active draft-gandhi-mpls-te-yang-model-01 2014-10-27 Active draft-txh-opsawg-lime-gap-analysis-01 2014-10-27 Active draft-zheng-netmod-xmi-yang-translation-00 2014-10-27 Active draft-chen-i2rs-mpls-ldp-info-model-00 2014-10-27 Active draft-tripathy-cloud-sla-yang-model-00 2014-10-27 Active draft-clemm-i2rs-yang-l3-topo-00 2014-10-27 Active draft-contreras-supa-yang-network-topo-01 2014-10-27 Active draft-wang-yang-bfd-oam-00 2014-10-27 Active draft-ietf-netconf-server-model-04 2014-10-26 Active draft-ietf-isis-yang-isis-cfg-01 2014-10-26 Active draft-shen-l2tpext-l2tpv3-yang-model-00 2014-10-26 Active draft-ietf-netmod-routing-cfg-16 2014-10-26 Active draft-shaikh-idr-bgp-model-00 2014-10-26 Active draft-ietf-netconf-restconf-03 2014-10-25 Active draft-pkd-pce-pcep-yang-01 2014-10-25 Active draft-sarikaya-dmm-for-wifi-01 2014-10-24 Active draft-voit-netmod-peer-mount-requirements-01 2014-10-24 Active draft-shi-model-json-msg-yang-00 2014-10-24 Active draft-liu-pim-igmp-mld-yang-00 2014-10-23 Active draft-ietf-netmod-rfc6087bis-01 2014-10-23 Active draft-liu-pim-yang-00 2014-10-23 Active draft-asechoud-netmod-diffserv-model-00 2014-10-22 Active draft-dong-i2rs-l2-network-topology-00 2014-10-21 Active draft-bierman-netconf-efficiency-extensions-02 2014-10-21 Active draft-zhang-nvo3-yang-cfg-00 2014-10-21 Active draft-sun-softwire-yang-00 2014-10-20 Active draft-yeung-netmod-ospf-02 2014-10-14 Active draft-ietf-netmod-yang-json-01 2014-10-13 Active draft-clemm-i2rs-yang-network-topo-01 2014-10-10 Active draft-ietf-netconf-call-home-01 2014-10-10 Active draft-bogdanovic-netmod-acl-model-02 2014-10-08 Active draft-clemm-netmod-mount-02 2014-10-07 Active draft-zhdankin-netmod-bgp-cfg-01 2014-10-02 Active draft-wang-i2rs-ospf-dm-00 2014-09-26 Active draft-bhuvan-bmwg-of-controller-benchmarking-01 2014-09-25 Active draft-zhang-mpls-tp-yang-oam-00 2014-09-25 Active draft-bierman-netmod-yang-conformance-04 2014-09-24 Active draft-ietf-netmod-snmp-cfg-08 2014-09-18 In IESG processing - ID Tracker state draft-frank-netconf-conformance-00 2014-09-16 Active draft-haas-i2rs-netmod-netconf-requirements-00 2014-09-12 Active draft-lhotka-netmod-yang-metadata-00 2014-09-11 Active draft-schoenw-lmap-yang-01 2014-09-02 Active draft-zhuang-l2vpn-yang-cfg-00 2014-08-24 Active draft-zhuang-l2vpn-evpn-yang-cfg-00 2014-08-16 Active draft-chen-mpls-ldp-yang-cfg-00 2014-08-15 Active draft-chen-mpls-te-yang-cfg-00 2014-08-15 Active draft-zhuang-l3vpn-yang-cfg-00 2014-08-15 Active draft-scharf-alto-yang-00 2014-07-04 Active draft-yang-netmod-location-00 2014-07-04 Active draft-fang-l3vpn-virtual-pe-05 2014-07-04 Active draft-mekking-dnsop-kasp-00 2014-07-04 Active draft-xjz-opsawg-nfvmodel-00 2014-07-04 Active draft-liu-netmod-yang-abstract-topo-00 2014-07-03 Active draft-ietf-netconf-yang-patch-01 2014-07-03 Active draft-zheng-netmod-integrate-operations-00 2014-07-02 Active draft-liu-netconf-multi-instances-00 2014-07-02 Active draft-litkowski-isis-yang-isis-cfg-01 2014-06-27 Active draft-litkowski-netmod-isis-cfg-00 2014-06-17 Active draft-lonvick-private-tax-08 2014-06-09 Active draft-tp-i2rs-yang-00 2014-05-08 Active That could be a lot of updates... I believe we should focus on the YANG models that don't have an existing WG. Reminder: A good avenue for any YANG models is http://www.ietf.org/meeting/91/tutorials/yang-session.html Regards, Benoit > > > > On Tue Nov 04 2014 at 8:40:55 AM Benoit Claise > wrote: > > Mahesh, > > Not sure what exactly you want to present but let me draw your > attention that the routing-related modules should be taken care of > in their respective WG. See > http://www.ietf.org/mail-archive/web/rtg-yang-coord/current/msg00094.html > > Regards, Benoit >> Tom, >> >> I am giving an update on the BFD YANG model in the BFD WG. I can >> give a quick update (~1-2min) in NETMOD if such an update is desired. >> >> *Mahesh Jethanandani* >> mjethanandani@gmail.com >> >> On Oct 23, 2014, at 1:43 PM, "Thomas D. Nadeau" >> > wrote: >> >>> >>> We have plenty of runway in the agenda right now so I will >>> put it down as two items. We reserved two slots because I feel >>> its important to encourage discussion during the face2face >>> meetings so insofar as I can, I want to give you enough runway >>> to discuss this in detail. >>> >>> --Tom >>> >>> >>>> On Oct 23, 2014:12:13 PM, at 12:13 PM, Ladislav Lhotka >>>> > wrote: >>>> >>>> Hi, >>>> >>>> apart from the two WG items draft-ietf-netmod-routing-cfg-16 >>>> (to be submitted) and draft-ietf-netmod-yang-json-01, I’d like >>>> to discuss the draft and draft-lhotka-netmod-yang-metadata-00. >>>> I think 5 minutes would be enough for the latter, I could even >>>> do it together with yang-json. >>>> >>>> Thanks, Lada >>>> >>>> On 23 Oct 2014, at 18:02, Andy Bierman >>> > wrote: >>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> On Tue, Oct 21, 2014 at 2:34 PM, Thomas D. Nadeau >>>>> > wrote: >>>>> >>>>> Not yet. Please propose topics. >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> I would like 15 min. to discuss YANG conformance issues, >>>>> specified in this draft: >>>>> http://www.ietf.org/id/draft-bierman-netmod-yang-conformance-04.txt >>>>> >>>>> These issues may get resolved in the NETCONF YANG 1.1 virtual >>>>> interim >>>>> meeting next week. If not, this topic should be discussed at >>>>> the IETF meeting. >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> —Tom >>>>> >>>>> Andy >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>>> On Oct 21, 2014:5:32 PM, at 5:32 PM, Sterne, Jason (Jason) >>>>>> >>>>> > wrote: >>>>>> >>>>>> Hi all, >>>>>> >>>>>> Is there a preliminary agenda for the two NETMOD sessions at >>>>>> IETF91 ? >>>>>> >>>>>> Some thought about topics being split between the 1st >>>>>> (longer) and 2nd (shorter) sessions ? >>>>>> >>>>>> Thanks, >>>>>> Jason >>>>>> >>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>> netmod mailing list >>>>>> netmod@ietf.org >>>>>> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/netmod >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> netmod mailing list >>>>> netmod@ietf.org >>>>> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/netmod >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> netmod mailing list >>>>> netmod@ietf.org >>>>> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/netmod >>>> >>>> -- >>>> Ladislav Lhotka, CZ.NIC Labs >>>> PGP Key ID: E74E8C0C >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> netmod mailing list >>> netmod@ietf.org >>> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/netmod >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> netmod mailing list >> netmod@ietf.org >> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/netmod > --------------010700010202010104000309 Content-Type: text/html; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit
Mahesh,
Benoit,

I was going to give a quick update on the BFD YANG model, which is being presented/discussed in its own WG.
I wonder which ideal outcome you want a presentation in the NETMOD WG?

Here's the list of drafts that have normative or unclassified references to YANG:
draft-vanderstok-core-comi-05                     2014-10-27  Active   
draft-shi-alto-yang-json-00                       2014-10-27  Active   
draft-shi-alto-yang-model-00                      2014-10-27  Active   
draft-netmod-clemm-datastore-push-00              2014-10-27  Active   
draft-wildes-netmod-syslog-model-05               2014-10-27  Active   
draft-zhang-nvo3-yang-active-active-cfg-00        2014-10-27  Active   
draft-zaalouk-supa-configuration-model-01         2014-10-27  Active   
draft-wang-lime-rpc-yang-oam-management-00        2014-10-27  Active   
draft-vergara-flexigrid-yang-00                   2014-10-27  Active   
draft-gandhi-mpls-te-yang-model-01                2014-10-27  Active   
draft-txh-opsawg-lime-gap-analysis-01             2014-10-27  Active   
draft-zheng-netmod-xmi-yang-translation-00        2014-10-27  Active   
draft-chen-i2rs-mpls-ldp-info-model-00            2014-10-27  Active   
draft-tripathy-cloud-sla-yang-model-00            2014-10-27  Active   
draft-clemm-i2rs-yang-l3-topo-00                  2014-10-27  Active   
draft-contreras-supa-yang-network-topo-01         2014-10-27  Active   
draft-wang-yang-bfd-oam-00                        2014-10-27  Active   
draft-ietf-netconf-server-model-04                2014-10-26  Active   
draft-ietf-isis-yang-isis-cfg-01                  2014-10-26  Active   
draft-shen-l2tpext-l2tpv3-yang-model-00           2014-10-26  Active   
draft-ietf-netmod-routing-cfg-16                  2014-10-26  Active   
draft-shaikh-idr-bgp-model-00                     2014-10-26  Active   
draft-ietf-netconf-restconf-03                    2014-10-25  Active   
draft-pkd-pce-pcep-yang-01                        2014-10-25  Active   
draft-sarikaya-dmm-for-wifi-01                    2014-10-24  Active   
draft-voit-netmod-peer-mount-requirements-01      2014-10-24  Active   
draft-shi-model-json-msg-yang-00                  2014-10-24  Active   
draft-liu-pim-igmp-mld-yang-00                    2014-10-23  Active   
draft-ietf-netmod-rfc6087bis-01                   2014-10-23  Active   
draft-liu-pim-yang-00                             2014-10-23  Active   
draft-asechoud-netmod-diffserv-model-00           2014-10-22  Active   
draft-dong-i2rs-l2-network-topology-00            2014-10-21  Active   
draft-bierman-netconf-efficiency-extensions-02    2014-10-21  Active   
draft-zhang-nvo3-yang-cfg-00                      2014-10-21  Active   
draft-sun-softwire-yang-00                        2014-10-20  Active   
draft-yeung-netmod-ospf-02                        2014-10-14  Active   
draft-ietf-netmod-yang-json-01                    2014-10-13  Active   
draft-clemm-i2rs-yang-network-topo-01             2014-10-10  Active   
draft-ietf-netconf-call-home-01                   2014-10-10  Active   
draft-bogdanovic-netmod-acl-model-02              2014-10-08  Active   
draft-clemm-netmod-mount-02                       2014-10-07  Active   
draft-zhdankin-netmod-bgp-cfg-01                  2014-10-02  Active   
draft-wang-i2rs-ospf-dm-00                        2014-09-26  Active   
draft-bhuvan-bmwg-of-controller-benchmarking-01   2014-09-25  Active   
draft-zhang-mpls-tp-yang-oam-00                   2014-09-25  Active   
draft-bierman-netmod-yang-conformance-04          2014-09-24  Active   
draft-ietf-netmod-snmp-cfg-08                     2014-09-18  In IESG processing - ID Tracker state <RFC Ed Queue>   
draft-frank-netconf-conformance-00                2014-09-16  Active   
draft-haas-i2rs-netmod-netconf-requirements-00    2014-09-12  Active   
draft-lhotka-netmod-yang-metadata-00              2014-09-11  Active   
draft-schoenw-lmap-yang-01                        2014-09-02  Active   
draft-zhuang-l2vpn-yang-cfg-00                    2014-08-24  Active   
draft-zhuang-l2vpn-evpn-yang-cfg-00               2014-08-16  Active   
draft-chen-mpls-ldp-yang-cfg-00                   2014-08-15  Active   
draft-chen-mpls-te-yang-cfg-00                    2014-08-15  Active   
draft-zhuang-l3vpn-yang-cfg-00                    2014-08-15  Active   
draft-scharf-alto-yang-00                         2014-07-04  Active   
draft-yang-netmod-location-00                     2014-07-04  Active   
draft-fang-l3vpn-virtual-pe-05                    2014-07-04  Active   
draft-mekking-dnsop-kasp-00                       2014-07-04  Active   
draft-xjz-opsawg-nfvmodel-00                      2014-07-04  Active   
draft-liu-netmod-yang-abstract-topo-00            2014-07-03  Active   
draft-ietf-netconf-yang-patch-01                  2014-07-03  Active   
draft-zheng-netmod-integrate-operations-00        2014-07-02  Active   
draft-liu-netconf-multi-instances-00              2014-07-02  Active   
draft-litkowski-isis-yang-isis-cfg-01             2014-06-27  Active   
draft-litkowski-netmod-isis-cfg-00                2014-06-17  Active   
draft-lonvick-private-tax-08                      2014-06-09  Active   
draft-tp-i2rs-yang-00                             2014-05-08  Active   
That could be a lot of updates...
I believe we should focus on the YANG models that don't have an existing WG.

Reminder: A good avenue for any YANG models is http://www.ietf.org/meeting/91/tutorials/yang-session.html

Regards, Benoit



On Tue Nov 04 2014 at 8:40:55 AM Benoit Claise <bclaise@cisco.com> wrote:
Mahesh,

Not sure what exactly you want to present but let me draw your attention that the routing-related modules should be taken care of in their respective WG. See http://www.ietf.org/mail-archive/web/rtg-yang-coord/current/msg00094.html

Regards, Benoit
Tom,

I am giving an update on the BFD YANG model in the BFD WG. I can give a quick update (~1-2min) in NETMOD if such an update is desired.

Mahesh Jethanandani

On Oct 23, 2014, at 1:43 PM, "Thomas D. Nadeau" <tnadeau@lucidvision.com> wrote:


   We have plenty of runway in the agenda right now so I will put it down as two items. We reserved two slots because I feel its important to encourage discussion during the face2face meetings so insofar as I can, I want to give you enough runway to discuss this in detail.

   --Tom


On Oct 23, 2014:12:13 PM, at 12:13 PM, Ladislav Lhotka <lhotka@nic.cz> wrote:

Hi,

apart from the two WG items draft-ietf-netmod-routing-cfg-16 (to be submitted) and draft-ietf-netmod-yang-json-01, I’d like to discuss the draft and draft-lhotka-netmod-yang-metadata-00. I think 5 minutes would be enough for the latter, I could even do it together with yang-json.

Thanks, Lada

On 23 Oct 2014, at 18:02, Andy Bierman <andy@yumaworks.com> wrote:



On Tue, Oct 21, 2014 at 2:34 PM, Thomas D. Nadeau <tnadeau@lucidvision.com> wrote:

   Not yet. Please propose topics.


I would like 15 min. to discuss YANG conformance issues, specified in this draft:
http://www.ietf.org/id/draft-bierman-netmod-yang-conformance-04.txt

These issues may get resolved in the NETCONF YANG 1.1 virtual interim
meeting next week. If not, this topic should be discussed at the IETF meeting.


   —Tom

Andy



On Oct 21, 2014:5:32 PM, at 5:32 PM, Sterne, Jason (Jason) <jason.sterne@alcatel-lucent.com> wrote:

Hi all,

Is there a preliminary agenda for the two NETMOD sessions at IETF91 ?     

Some thought about topics being split between the 1st (longer) and 2nd (shorter) sessions ?

Thanks,
Jason

_______________________________________________
netmod mailing list
netmod@ietf.org
https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/netmod


_______________________________________________
netmod mailing list
netmod@ietf.org
https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/netmod


_______________________________________________
netmod mailing list
netmod@ietf.org
https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/netmod

--
Ladislav Lhotka, CZ.NIC Labs
PGP Key ID: E74E8C0C






_______________________________________________
netmod mailing list
netmod@ietf.org
https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/netmod


_______________________________________________
netmod mailing list
netmod@ietf.org
https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/netmod


--------------010700010202010104000309-- From nobody Tue Nov 4 14:49:04 2014 Return-Path: X-Original-To: netmod@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: netmod@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8120D1A0267 for ; Tue, 4 Nov 2014 14:49:01 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.144 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.144 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, HELO_EQ_DE=0.35, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, RP_MATCHES_RCVD=-0.594] autolearn=ham Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 62cshoL7W7W7 for ; Tue, 4 Nov 2014 14:48:58 -0800 (PST) Received: from atlas3.jacobs-university.de (atlas3.jacobs-university.de [212.201.44.18]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher AECDH-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 75D8F1A0264 for ; Tue, 4 Nov 2014 14:48:58 -0800 (PST) Received: from localhost (demetrius5.irc-it.jacobs-university.de [10.70.0.222]) by atlas3.jacobs-university.de (Postfix) with ESMTP id E9C5F867; Tue, 4 Nov 2014 23:48:56 +0100 (CET) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at jacobs-university.de Received: from atlas3.jacobs-university.de ([10.70.0.220]) by localhost (demetrius5.jacobs-university.de [10.70.0.222]) (amavisd-new, port 10030) with ESMTP id A7aDoyMgisMu; Tue, 4 Nov 2014 23:48:45 +0100 (CET) Received: from hermes.jacobs-university.de (hermes.jacobs-university.de [212.201.44.23]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (Client CN "hermes.jacobs-university.de", Issuer "Jacobs University CA - G01" (verified OK)) by atlas3.jacobs-university.de (Postfix) with ESMTPS; Tue, 4 Nov 2014 23:48:55 +0100 (CET) Received: from localhost (demetrius4.jacobs-university.de [212.201.44.49]) by hermes.jacobs-university.de (Postfix) with ESMTP id CBD5620038; Tue, 4 Nov 2014 23:48:55 +0100 (CET) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at jacobs-university.de Received: from hermes.jacobs-university.de ([212.201.44.23]) by localhost (demetrius4.jacobs-university.de [212.201.44.32]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id ZxW3VrLbU52J; Tue, 4 Nov 2014 23:48:54 +0100 (CET) Received: from elstar.local (elstar.jacobs.jacobs-university.de [10.50.231.133]) by hermes.jacobs-university.de (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5401720035; Tue, 4 Nov 2014 23:48:54 +0100 (CET) Received: by elstar.local (Postfix, from userid 501) id 281C02F441F3; Tue, 4 Nov 2014 23:48:54 +0100 (CET) Date: Tue, 4 Nov 2014 23:48:54 +0100 From: Juergen Schoenwaelder To: Mahesh Jethanandani Message-ID: <20141104224854.GA20782@elstar.local> Mail-Followup-To: Mahesh Jethanandani , Benoit Claise , "Thomas D. Nadeau" , "netmod@ietf.org" , "rtg-ads@tools.ietf.org" References: <79054E89-2D09-4461-8D35-8F6FA025B71F@nic.cz> <43060BE7-53EA-4B9D-B778-2FED58C0D60C@lucidvision.com> <52AE09CB-D4AB-4421-BBA4-1D9C45EA6957@gmail.com> <54590195.3010903@cisco.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit In-Reply-To: User-Agent: Mutt/1.4.2.3i Archived-At: http://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/netmod/TpYYeDp7J4bRexS_BoyiBY7S8y0 Cc: "netmod@ietf.org" , "rtg-ads@tools.ietf.org" Subject: Re: [netmod] IETF91 NETMOD agenda ? X-BeenThere: netmod@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list Reply-To: Juergen Schoenwaelder List-Id: NETMOD WG list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 04 Nov 2014 22:49:01 -0000 Hi, perhaps Tom can help compiling an overview which data model is discussed in (or proposed to) which working group and then we do not need individuals to step up and show a slide or two. With ~60 data models submitted to this IETF, this stepping up to the mike to say 2-3 sentences alone would at least take an hour of meeting time. I am thinking about something as simple like the list below (organized by WG with markers to indicate [WG] working group documents and [IS] individual submissions). * NETCONF - NETCONF Server Configuration Model [WG] https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-netconf-server-model-04 - ... * NETMOD - A YANG Data Model for Routing Management [WG] https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-netmod-routing-cfg-16 - Network Access Control List (ACL) YANG Data Model [WG] https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-bogdanovic-netmod-acl-model-02 - SYSLOG YANG model [WG] https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-wildes-netmod-syslog-model-05 - Defining and Using Metadata with YANG [IS] https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-lhotka-netmod-yang-metadata-00 - ... * ... Having such an overview recorded on the slides and hence in the proceedings will be useful. If we manage to compile such a list even before the meeting starts on the mailing list (that is by Sunday), then this list can also serve as a guide where to go to discuss the various YANG data modeling contributions. /js On Tue, Nov 04, 2014 at 10:16:27PM +0000, Mahesh Jethanandani wrote: > Benoit, > > I was going to give a quick update on the BFD YANG model, which is being > presented/discussed in its own WG. > > > > On Tue Nov 04 2014 at 8:40:55 AM Benoit Claise wrote: > > > Mahesh, > > > > Not sure what exactly you want to present but let me draw your attention > > that the routing-related modules should be taken care of in their > > respective WG. See > > http://www.ietf.org/mail-archive/web/rtg-yang-coord/current/msg00094.html > > > > Regards, Benoit > > > > Tom, > > > > I am giving an update on the BFD YANG model in the BFD WG. I can give a > > quick update (~1-2min) in NETMOD if such an update is desired. > > > > *Mahesh Jethanandani* > > mjethanandani@gmail.com > > > > On Oct 23, 2014, at 1:43 PM, "Thomas D. Nadeau" > > wrote: > > > > > > We have plenty of runway in the agenda right now so I will put it down > > as two items. We reserved two slots because I feel its important to > > encourage discussion during the face2face meetings so insofar as I can, I > > want to give you enough runway to discuss this in detail. > > > > --Tom > > > > > > On Oct 23, 2014:12:13 PM, at 12:13 PM, Ladislav Lhotka > > wrote: > > > > > > Hi, > > > > > > apart from the two WG items draft-ietf-netmod-routing-cfg-16 (to be > > submitted) and draft-ietf-netmod-yang-json-01, I’d like to discuss the > > draft and draft-lhotka-netmod-yang-metadata-00. I think 5 minutes would be > > enough for the latter, I could even do it together with yang-json. > > > > > > Thanks, Lada > > > > > > On 23 Oct 2014, at 18:02, Andy Bierman wrote: > > > > > > > > > > On Tue, Oct 21, 2014 at 2:34 PM, Thomas D. Nadeau < > > tnadeau@lucidvision.com> wrote: > > > > > > Not yet. Please propose topics. > > > > > > > > I would like 15 min. to discuss YANG conformance issues, specified in > > this draft: > > > > http://www.ietf.org/id/draft-bierman-netmod-yang-conformance-04.txt > > > > > > These issues may get resolved in the NETCONF YANG 1.1 virtual interim > > > > meeting next week. If not, this topic should be discussed at the IETF > > meeting. > > > > > > > > —Tom > > > > > > Andy > > > > > > > > > > On Oct 21, 2014:5:32 PM, at 5:32 PM, Sterne, Jason (Jason) < > > jason.sterne@alcatel-lucent.com> wrote: > > > > > > Hi all, > > > > > > Is there a preliminary agenda for the two NETMOD sessions at IETF91 ? > > > > > > > > Some thought about topics being split between the 1st (longer) and 2nd > > (shorter) sessions ? > > > > > > Thanks, > > > > Jason > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > > > netmod mailing list > > > > netmod@ietf.org > > > > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/netmod > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > > > netmod mailing list > > > > netmod@ietf.org > > > > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/netmod > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > > > netmod mailing list > > > > netmod@ietf.org > > > > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/netmod > > > > > > -- > > > > Ladislav Lhotka, CZ.NIC Labs > > > > PGP Key ID: E74E8C0C > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > netmod mailing list > > netmod@ietf.org > > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/netmod > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > netmod mailing listnetmod@ietf.orghttps://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/netmod > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > netmod mailing list > netmod@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/netmod -- Juergen Schoenwaelder Jacobs University Bremen gGmbH Phone: +49 421 200 3587 Campus Ring 1, 28759 Bremen, Germany Fax: +49 421 200 3103 From nobody Tue Nov 4 14:55:44 2014 Return-Path: X-Original-To: netmod@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: netmod@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id BEF7D1A0282 for ; Tue, 4 Nov 2014 14:55:40 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -15.095 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-15.095 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_HI=-5, RP_MATCHES_RCVD=-0.594, SPF_PASS=-0.001, USER_IN_DEF_DKIM_WL=-7.5] autolearn=ham Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id IyN8hvZGEdQq for ; Tue, 4 Nov 2014 14:55:39 -0800 (PST) Received: from alln-iport-7.cisco.com (alln-iport-7.cisco.com [173.37.142.94]) (using TLSv1 with cipher RC4-SHA (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id C945F1A0231 for ; Tue, 4 Nov 2014 14:55:38 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/simple; d=cisco.com; i=@cisco.com; l=1715; q=dns/txt; s=iport; t=1415141738; x=1416351338; h=from:to:cc:subject:date:message-id:in-reply-to: content-id:content-transfer-encoding:mime-version; bh=cOL+c6LVaByUNd0eCRsGnwQvDuqznYnm1sjKJ+mnIJE=; b=i6y2UlJ4FOZdLp20vF/WykmKxhsoDneRY3Gj0YNH6t4pitL/2f7TJOU4 J/Dq7m4zLfxMMfaB1WblKQCSjI4eqVLcWLbYQlma93g/MaCA3eSk9O0rO n8ALWpjVmqqA4EOPjaI+/I7BmolCP21pSsLP1EkSd7XNyRiqkeryGXxdT o=; X-IronPort-Anti-Spam-Filtered: true X-IronPort-Anti-Spam-Result: AhgFABVZWVStJV2Z/2dsb2JhbABbgw5UWQTOWgyGd1QCgSEWAQEBAQF9hAMBAQMBAQEBawsSAQhnBgslAgQBDQUJiCMDCQkNwAUNhi0BAQEBAQEBAQEBAQEBAQEBAQEBAQEXjlaCOgeESwWLPYZkhFGFCoISgTE9jTJChnCDeGwBgUeBAwEBAQ X-IronPort-AV: E=Sophos;i="5.07,315,1413244800"; d="scan'208";a="93374832" Received: from rcdn-core-2.cisco.com ([173.37.93.153]) by alln-iport-7.cisco.com with ESMTP; 04 Nov 2014 22:55:38 +0000 Received: from xhc-rcd-x01.cisco.com (xhc-rcd-x01.cisco.com [173.37.183.75]) by rcdn-core-2.cisco.com (8.14.5/8.14.5) with ESMTP id sA4Mtb3E020784 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=AES128-SHA bits=128 verify=FAIL); Tue, 4 Nov 2014 22:55:38 GMT Received: from xmb-rcd-x07.cisco.com ([169.254.7.56]) by xhc-rcd-x01.cisco.com ([173.37.183.75]) with mapi id 14.03.0195.001; Tue, 4 Nov 2014 16:55:37 -0600 From: "Aseem Choudhary (asechoud)" To: "Thomas D. Nadeau" , NETMOD Working Group Thread-Topic: [netmod] current IETF91 Netmod Preliminary Agenda Thread-Index: AQHP+ECRYcVio70c40qJlbCUFyN5e5xQ8tqA Date: Tue, 4 Nov 2014 22:55:37 +0000 Message-ID: In-Reply-To: Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: user-agent: Microsoft-MacOutlook/14.2.3.120616 x-originating-ip: [10.154.208.160] Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-ID: <148160E518EFB1489B751BB5AF5DAAB4@emea.cisco.com> Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable MIME-Version: 1.0 Archived-At: http://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/netmod/zwHZpfpGzT5dH5HWO0guWTSlanU Cc: "netmod-chairs@tools.ietf.org" Subject: Re: [netmod] current IETF91 Netmod Preliminary Agenda X-BeenThere: netmod@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: NETMOD WG list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 04 Nov 2014 22:55:40 -0000 Hi Tom We need 10 minutes to present Diffserv yang model: http://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-asechoud-netmod-diffserv-model-00.txt -thanks, Aseem Choudhary Shitanshu Shah On 11/4/14, 7:03 AM, "Thomas D. Nadeau" wrote: > > This is the current agenda I have to-date. Are there any other requests >for discussion slots? > > --Tom > > > > Peer Mount Discussion/drafts 15 min Eric Voit evoit@cisco.com > http://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-voit-netmod-peer-mount-requirements >/ > > =B3Design Teams=B2 update. 10 min jason.sterne@alcatel-lucent.com > > o List of all known =B3design teams=B2 that are working on > YANG models (especially ones that may be =09 > progressing outside of the IETF mailing lists) > =09 > o Ideally a brief status update from one of the primary > leaders/contributors (i.e. a few bullet points / 1-2 minutes) > for each one (not to discuss the technical details of specific > models =AD that could be other agenda items) > > YANG conformance issues. 10 min Andy Bierman Andy Bierman > > http://www.ietf.org/id/draft-bierman-netmod-yang-conformance-04.txt > > draft-ietf-netmod-routing-cfg-16 5 Lada Lhotka lhotka@nic.cz > draft-ietf-netmod-yang-json-01 5 Lada Lhotka lhotka@nic.cz > draft-lhotka-netmod-yang-metadata-00 5 Lada Lhotka lhotka@nic.cz > > > Dana Blair dblair@cisco.com =09 > Dean Bogdanovic deanb@juniper.net 10 ACL Yang Model > > Mahesh Jethanandani mjethanandani@gmail.com 10 BFD Yang Model > > > >=09 > >_______________________________________________ >netmod mailing list >netmod@ietf.org >https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/netmod From nobody Tue Nov 4 15:00:43 2014 Return-Path: X-Original-To: netmod@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: netmod@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id E31E81A0386 for ; Tue, 4 Nov 2014 15:00:41 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001] autolearn=ham Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id FH8lYijwReW1 for ; Tue, 4 Nov 2014 15:00:38 -0800 (PST) Received: from elasmtp-scoter.atl.sa.earthlink.net (elasmtp-scoter.atl.sa.earthlink.net [209.86.89.67]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id E1AE11A037A for ; Tue, 4 Nov 2014 15:00:37 -0800 (PST) DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=dk20050327; d=mindspring.com; b=OCae0+E9cLufrD9qsUs3URgmZ6xh3ApUbPbrolWd35Q01f7R/55hF3Tg1bFHcVe5; h=Message-ID:Date:From:Reply-To:To:Subject:Cc:Mime-Version:Content-Type:Content-Transfer-Encoding:X-Mailer:X-ELNK-Trace:X-Originating-IP; Received: from [209.86.224.33] (helo=elwamui-darkeyed.atl.sa.earthlink.net) by elasmtp-scoter.atl.sa.earthlink.net with esmtpa (Exim 4.67) (envelope-from ) id 1Xln5S-0008BN-2s; Tue, 04 Nov 2014 18:00:30 -0500 Received: from 76.254.48.231 by webmail.earthlink.net with HTTP; Tue, 4 Nov 2014 18:00:29 -0500 Message-ID: <24159436.1415142030066.JavaMail.root@elwamui-darkeyed.atl.sa.earthlink.net> Date: Tue, 4 Nov 2014 15:00:29 -0800 (GMT-08:00) From: Randy Presuhn To: Benoit Claise , Mahesh Jethanandani , "Thomas D. Nadeau" Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: EarthLink Zoo Mail 1.0 X-ELNK-Trace: 4488c18417c9426da92b9037bc8bcf44d4c20f6b8d69d88825aa8a2065c9591ff2777385dca1d4bc5f40e60a65751e9c350badd9bab72f9c350badd9bab72f9c X-Originating-IP: 209.86.224.33 Archived-At: http://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/netmod/0lN4UIVsHIc2hVPX7a2k6yS21T4 Cc: "netmod@ietf.org" , "rtg-ads@tools.ietf.org" Subject: Re: [netmod] IETF91 NETMOD agenda ? X-BeenThere: netmod@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list Reply-To: Randy Presuhn List-Id: NETMOD WG list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 04 Nov 2014 23:00:42 -0000 Hi - >From: Benoit Claise >Sent: Nov 4, 2014 2:29 PM >To: Mahesh Jethanandani , "Thomas D. Nadeau" >Cc: "netmod@ietf.org" , "rtg-ads@tools.ietf.org" >Subject: Re: [netmod] IETF91 NETMOD agenda ? ... >Here's the list of drafts that have normative or unclassified references >to YANG: ... >That could be a lot of updates... >I believe we should focus on the YANG models that don't have an existing WG. ... >From the peanut gallery... Though I won't be there, I'd suggest an even more restrictive criterion for allocating time: spend time only on those aspects of models where there is serious disagreement (even after consulting a Yang doctor) about how to model something or where the modelers have come to believe YANG is somehow deficient. If there aren't in-depth modeling / language issues requiring face-to-face discussion, don't waste meeting time on the document. Randy From nobody Tue Nov 4 15:10:44 2014 Return-Path: X-Original-To: netmod@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: netmod@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id BBF731A0404 for ; Tue, 4 Nov 2014 15:10:41 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -15.095 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-15.095 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_HI=-5, RP_MATCHES_RCVD=-0.594, SPF_PASS=-0.001, USER_IN_DEF_DKIM_WL=-7.5] autolearn=ham Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id ac46tT_UKbVf for ; Tue, 4 Nov 2014 15:10:39 -0800 (PST) Received: from aer-iport-3.cisco.com (aer-iport-3.cisco.com [173.38.203.53]) (using TLSv1 with cipher RC4-SHA (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 68CB21A03AB for ; Tue, 4 Nov 2014 15:10:38 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/simple; d=cisco.com; i=@cisco.com; l=5584; q=dns/txt; s=iport; t=1415142638; x=1416352238; h=message-id:date:from:mime-version:to:subject:references: in-reply-to:content-transfer-encoding; bh=PCRRFGgOXY/1ozeUZ+A/KKnc1zyWgtazeE2nR0gWY9s=; b=b3hF0ePH+4AgivLcVh+zciLekSnZU1udzAUABIUyH0zD7/oIXIC0CiMo 5Ls4JYfvST9TCPQkl80T0lT1CZjGBdtu6XPF7NBQ30TDL9MBbZBTvyzYi oE/EEaCbjQbnW3nQOU6bynGYOn/eTRChHgQrHp99v6EkFQQE8UJpR/XHE M=; X-IronPort-Anti-Spam-Filtered: true X-IronPort-Anti-Spam-Result: ArEEALhbWVStJssW/2dsb2JhbABbg2JZzl4MhndUAoE3AQEBAQF9hAIBAQEDAQEBASAPAQU2ChELDgoCAgUWCwICCQMCAQIBDwYwBgEMBgIBAQWIIwMJCQ2xUY5aDYYtAQEBAQEBAQEBAQEBAQEBAQEBGoEtjRkQgVcSAQFWgneBVAEEhGqLFoZygXqCTUOCEoExg0yCd4csQoJnhAmDeTwvAYEOgTwBAQE X-IronPort-AV: E=Sophos;i="5.07,315,1413244800"; d="scan'208";a="231039011" Received: from aer-iport-nat.cisco.com (HELO aer-core-3.cisco.com) ([173.38.203.22]) by aer-iport-3.cisco.com with ESMTP; 04 Nov 2014 23:10:36 +0000 Received: from [10.60.67.84] (ams-bclaise-8913.cisco.com [10.60.67.84]) by aer-core-3.cisco.com (8.14.5/8.14.5) with ESMTP id sA4NAa9x001500; Tue, 4 Nov 2014 23:10:36 GMT Message-ID: <54595CEC.9010102@cisco.com> Date: Wed, 05 Nov 2014 00:10:36 +0100 From: Benoit Claise User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 6.1; WOW64; rv:24.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/24.7.0 MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Mahesh Jethanandani , "Thomas D. Nadeau" , "netmod@ietf.org" , "rtg-ads@tools.ietf.org" References: <79054E89-2D09-4461-8D35-8F6FA025B71F@nic.cz> <43060BE7-53EA-4B9D-B778-2FED58C0D60C@lucidvision.com> <52AE09CB-D4AB-4421-BBA4-1D9C45EA6957@gmail.com> <54590195.3010903@cisco.com> <20141104224854.GA20782@elstar.local> In-Reply-To: <20141104224854.GA20782@elstar.local> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Archived-At: http://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/netmod/D6s0bqw7LSVnB-uTbm6_532I-6o Subject: Re: [netmod] IETF91 NETMOD agenda ? X-BeenThere: netmod@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: NETMOD WG list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 04 Nov 2014 23:10:42 -0000 Hi Jürgen, I like this idea. Regards, Benoit > Hi, > > perhaps Tom can help compiling an overview which data model is > discussed in (or proposed to) which working group and then we do not > need individuals to step up and show a slide or two. With ~60 data > models submitted to this IETF, this stepping up to the mike to say 2-3 > sentences alone would at least take an hour of meeting time. > > I am thinking about something as simple like the list below (organized > by WG with markers to indicate [WG] working group documents and [IS] > individual submissions). > > * NETCONF > > - NETCONF Server Configuration Model [WG] > https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-netconf-server-model-04 > > - ... > > * NETMOD > > - A YANG Data Model for Routing Management [WG] > https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-netmod-routing-cfg-16 > > - Network Access Control List (ACL) YANG Data Model [WG] > https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-bogdanovic-netmod-acl-model-02 > > - SYSLOG YANG model [WG] > https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-wildes-netmod-syslog-model-05 > > - Defining and Using Metadata with YANG [IS] > https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-lhotka-netmod-yang-metadata-00 > > - ... > > * ... > > Having such an overview recorded on the slides and hence in the > proceedings will be useful. If we manage to compile such a list even > before the meeting starts on the mailing list (that is by Sunday), > then this list can also serve as a guide where to go to discuss the > various YANG data modeling contributions. > > /js > > On Tue, Nov 04, 2014 at 10:16:27PM +0000, Mahesh Jethanandani wrote: >> Benoit, >> >> I was going to give a quick update on the BFD YANG model, which is being >> presented/discussed in its own WG. >> >> >> >> On Tue Nov 04 2014 at 8:40:55 AM Benoit Claise wrote: >> >>> Mahesh, >>> >>> Not sure what exactly you want to present but let me draw your attention >>> that the routing-related modules should be taken care of in their >>> respective WG. See >>> http://www.ietf.org/mail-archive/web/rtg-yang-coord/current/msg00094.html >>> >>> Regards, Benoit >>> >>> Tom, >>> >>> I am giving an update on the BFD YANG model in the BFD WG. I can give a >>> quick update (~1-2min) in NETMOD if such an update is desired. >>> >>> *Mahesh Jethanandani* >>> mjethanandani@gmail.com >>> >>> On Oct 23, 2014, at 1:43 PM, "Thomas D. Nadeau" >>> wrote: >>> >>> >>> We have plenty of runway in the agenda right now so I will put it down >>> as two items. We reserved two slots because I feel its important to >>> encourage discussion during the face2face meetings so insofar as I can, I >>> want to give you enough runway to discuss this in detail. >>> >>> --Tom >>> >>> >>> On Oct 23, 2014:12:13 PM, at 12:13 PM, Ladislav Lhotka >>> wrote: >>> >>> >>> Hi, >>> >>> >>> apart from the two WG items draft-ietf-netmod-routing-cfg-16 (to be >>> submitted) and draft-ietf-netmod-yang-json-01, I’d like to discuss the >>> draft and draft-lhotka-netmod-yang-metadata-00. I think 5 minutes would be >>> enough for the latter, I could even do it together with yang-json. >>> >>> >>> Thanks, Lada >>> >>> >>> On 23 Oct 2014, at 18:02, Andy Bierman wrote: >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> On Tue, Oct 21, 2014 at 2:34 PM, Thomas D. Nadeau < >>> tnadeau@lucidvision.com> wrote: >>> >>> >>> Not yet. Please propose topics. >>> >>> >>> >>> I would like 15 min. to discuss YANG conformance issues, specified in >>> this draft: >>> >>> http://www.ietf.org/id/draft-bierman-netmod-yang-conformance-04.txt >>> >>> >>> These issues may get resolved in the NETCONF YANG 1.1 virtual interim >>> >>> meeting next week. If not, this topic should be discussed at the IETF >>> meeting. >>> >>> >>> >>> —Tom >>> >>> >>> Andy >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> On Oct 21, 2014:5:32 PM, at 5:32 PM, Sterne, Jason (Jason) < >>> jason.sterne@alcatel-lucent.com> wrote: >>> >>> >>> Hi all, >>> >>> >>> Is there a preliminary agenda for the two NETMOD sessions at IETF91 ? >>> >>> >>> >>> Some thought about topics being split between the 1st (longer) and 2nd >>> (shorter) sessions ? >>> >>> >>> Thanks, >>> >>> Jason >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> >>> netmod mailing list >>> >>> netmod@ietf.org >>> >>> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/netmod >>> >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> >>> netmod mailing list >>> >>> netmod@ietf.org >>> >>> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/netmod >>> >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> >>> netmod mailing list >>> >>> netmod@ietf.org >>> >>> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/netmod >>> >>> >>> -- >>> >>> Ladislav Lhotka, CZ.NIC Labs >>> >>> PGP Key ID: E74E8C0C >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> netmod mailing list >>> netmod@ietf.org >>> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/netmod >>> >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> netmod mailing listnetmod@ietf.orghttps://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/netmod >>> >>> >>> >> _______________________________________________ >> netmod mailing list >> netmod@ietf.org >> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/netmod > From nobody Tue Nov 4 15:20:36 2014 Return-Path: X-Original-To: netmod@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: netmod@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5F3341A0404 for ; Tue, 4 Nov 2014 15:20:35 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.979 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.979 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, FM_FORGED_GMAIL=0.622, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW=-0.7, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id X-GXYx5heaal for ; Tue, 4 Nov 2014 15:20:32 -0800 (PST) Received: from mail-qg0-f43.google.com (mail-qg0-f43.google.com [209.85.192.43]) (using TLSv1 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-RC4-SHA (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 4DDFD1A0263 for ; Tue, 4 Nov 2014 15:20:32 -0800 (PST) Received: by mail-qg0-f43.google.com with SMTP id f51so11530211qge.30 for ; Tue, 04 Nov 2014 15:20:31 -0800 (PST) X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20130820; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:in-reply-to:references:date :message-id:subject:from:to:cc:content-type :content-transfer-encoding; bh=f7J4SqG5mtj0Zk2HLqad62HZF5zCOxcks4gyG/gbobM=; b=DOd/ICJT6b5dDiwvb5KDNhWN+Blz+/YCLVk/nmcroWN1yNYRXB6mRf2J1Kx8o8JgNC MGL1wfdr7dTVkV/+t4XR+4mwLOgvXDBmAYrC+pz6DbHUBpMmQvp6btG6gdiI/6nNwIbC QCbpJXlZTqCgOpvawqamq6+I1V+Ff05EgAQr24o7Ubj32wz43I/JHy3zfqpACmSytolO DSAfyRUQrm/DNC3bItvMePhID9fqTfrVxrLEGcpHMXxpElrujVcJTM2nLAEwsYJB4aUS tZTDD+h4Vw68xSJb4me459jGiuebPprIqlrK6PpVtX+HtnUCh1Ca00jdZmfOoAM9MsL6 Q0DA== X-Gm-Message-State: ALoCoQlezz3Ae7rcHFYC3q6MC1SvpaX5I26Pck9GLatnZQCZIVxomEREoxkUE2Nrug4lkySOvDE+ MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Received: by 10.224.134.198 with SMTP id k6mr55594313qat.88.1415143231356; Tue, 04 Nov 2014 15:20:31 -0800 (PST) Received: by 10.140.37.52 with HTTP; Tue, 4 Nov 2014 15:20:31 -0800 (PST) In-Reply-To: <54595361.5000907@cisco.com> References: <79054E89-2D09-4461-8D35-8F6FA025B71F@nic.cz> <43060BE7-53EA-4B9D-B778-2FED58C0D60C@lucidvision.com> <52AE09CB-D4AB-4421-BBA4-1D9C45EA6957@gmail.com> <54590195.3010903@cisco.com> <54595361.5000907@cisco.com> Date: Tue, 4 Nov 2014 15:20:31 -0800 Message-ID: From: Andy Bierman To: Benoit Claise Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Archived-At: http://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/netmod/TFOkYWA6z_tGyoubAApw62dkpA4 Cc: "netmod@ietf.org" , "rtg-ads@tools.ietf.org" Subject: Re: [netmod] IETF91 NETMOD agenda ? X-BeenThere: netmod@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: NETMOD WG list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 04 Nov 2014 23:20:35 -0000 On Tue, Nov 4, 2014 at 2:29 PM, Benoit Claise wrote: > Mahesh, > > Benoit, > > I was going to give a quick update on the BFD YANG model, which is being > presented/discussed in its own WG. > > I wonder which ideal outcome you want a presentation in the NETMOD WG? > > Here's the list of drafts that have normative or unclassified references = to > YANG: > > draft-vanderstok-core-comi-05 2014-10-27 Active > draft-shi-alto-yang-json-00 2014-10-27 Active > draft-shi-alto-yang-model-00 2014-10-27 Active > draft-netmod-clemm-datastore-push-00 2014-10-27 Active > draft-wildes-netmod-syslog-model-05 2014-10-27 Active > draft-zhang-nvo3-yang-active-active-cfg-00 2014-10-27 Active > draft-zaalouk-supa-configuration-model-01 2014-10-27 Active > draft-wang-lime-rpc-yang-oam-management-00 2014-10-27 Active > draft-vergara-flexigrid-yang-00 2014-10-27 Active > draft-gandhi-mpls-te-yang-model-01 2014-10-27 Active > draft-txh-opsawg-lime-gap-analysis-01 2014-10-27 Active > draft-zheng-netmod-xmi-yang-translation-00 2014-10-27 Active > draft-chen-i2rs-mpls-ldp-info-model-00 2014-10-27 Active > draft-tripathy-cloud-sla-yang-model-00 2014-10-27 Active > draft-clemm-i2rs-yang-l3-topo-00 2014-10-27 Active > draft-contreras-supa-yang-network-topo-01 2014-10-27 Active > draft-wang-yang-bfd-oam-00 2014-10-27 Active > draft-ietf-netconf-server-model-04 2014-10-26 Active > draft-ietf-isis-yang-isis-cfg-01 2014-10-26 Active > draft-shen-l2tpext-l2tpv3-yang-model-00 2014-10-26 Active > draft-ietf-netmod-routing-cfg-16 2014-10-26 Active > draft-shaikh-idr-bgp-model-00 2014-10-26 Active > draft-ietf-netconf-restconf-03 2014-10-25 Active > draft-pkd-pce-pcep-yang-01 2014-10-25 Active > draft-sarikaya-dmm-for-wifi-01 2014-10-24 Active > draft-voit-netmod-peer-mount-requirements-01 2014-10-24 Active > draft-shi-model-json-msg-yang-00 2014-10-24 Active > draft-liu-pim-igmp-mld-yang-00 2014-10-23 Active > draft-ietf-netmod-rfc6087bis-01 2014-10-23 Active > draft-liu-pim-yang-00 2014-10-23 Active > draft-asechoud-netmod-diffserv-model-00 2014-10-22 Active > draft-dong-i2rs-l2-network-topology-00 2014-10-21 Active > draft-bierman-netconf-efficiency-extensions-02 2014-10-21 Active > draft-zhang-nvo3-yang-cfg-00 2014-10-21 Active > draft-sun-softwire-yang-00 2014-10-20 Active > draft-yeung-netmod-ospf-02 2014-10-14 Active > draft-ietf-netmod-yang-json-01 2014-10-13 Active > draft-clemm-i2rs-yang-network-topo-01 2014-10-10 Active > draft-ietf-netconf-call-home-01 2014-10-10 Active > draft-bogdanovic-netmod-acl-model-02 2014-10-08 Active > draft-clemm-netmod-mount-02 2014-10-07 Active > draft-zhdankin-netmod-bgp-cfg-01 2014-10-02 Active > draft-wang-i2rs-ospf-dm-00 2014-09-26 Active > draft-bhuvan-bmwg-of-controller-benchmarking-01 2014-09-25 Active > draft-zhang-mpls-tp-yang-oam-00 2014-09-25 Active > draft-bierman-netmod-yang-conformance-04 2014-09-24 Active > draft-ietf-netmod-snmp-cfg-08 2014-09-18 In IESG > processing - ID Tracker state > draft-frank-netconf-conformance-00 2014-09-16 Active > draft-haas-i2rs-netmod-netconf-requirements-00 2014-09-12 Active > draft-lhotka-netmod-yang-metadata-00 2014-09-11 Active > draft-schoenw-lmap-yang-01 2014-09-02 Active > draft-zhuang-l2vpn-yang-cfg-00 2014-08-24 Active > draft-zhuang-l2vpn-evpn-yang-cfg-00 2014-08-16 Active > draft-chen-mpls-ldp-yang-cfg-00 2014-08-15 Active > draft-chen-mpls-te-yang-cfg-00 2014-08-15 Active > draft-zhuang-l3vpn-yang-cfg-00 2014-08-15 Active > draft-scharf-alto-yang-00 2014-07-04 Active > draft-yang-netmod-location-00 2014-07-04 Active > draft-fang-l3vpn-virtual-pe-05 2014-07-04 Active > draft-mekking-dnsop-kasp-00 2014-07-04 Active > draft-xjz-opsawg-nfvmodel-00 2014-07-04 Active > draft-liu-netmod-yang-abstract-topo-00 2014-07-03 Active > draft-ietf-netconf-yang-patch-01 2014-07-03 Active > draft-zheng-netmod-integrate-operations-00 2014-07-02 Active > draft-liu-netconf-multi-instances-00 2014-07-02 Active > draft-litkowski-isis-yang-isis-cfg-01 2014-06-27 Active > draft-litkowski-netmod-isis-cfg-00 2014-06-17 Active > draft-lonvick-private-tax-08 2014-06-09 Active > draft-tp-i2rs-yang-00 2014-05-08 Active > > That could be a lot of updates... > I believe we should focus on the YANG models that don't have an existing = WG. > I would prefer to spend all the meeting time trying to discuss open issues in chartered items. I don't see why the NETMOD WG needs to spend time on status reports for any unchartered work. I don't agree that NETMOD WG should be the home of SYSLOG or any other protocol specific data models. IMO all those type of drafts should try to find a home in a protocol WG with the right experts. Andy > Reminder: A good avenue for any YANG models is > http://www.ietf.org/meeting/91/tutorials/yang-session.html > > Regards, Benoit > > > > > On Tue Nov 04 2014 at 8:40:55 AM Benoit Claise wrote: >> >> Mahesh, >> >> Not sure what exactly you want to present but let me draw your attention >> that the routing-related modules should be taken care of in their respec= tive >> WG. See >> http://www.ietf.org/mail-archive/web/rtg-yang-coord/current/msg00094.htm= l >> >> Regards, Benoit >> >> Tom, >> >> I am giving an update on the BFD YANG model in the BFD WG. I can give a >> quick update (~1-2min) in NETMOD if such an update is desired. >> >> Mahesh Jethanandani >> mjethanandani@gmail.com >> >> On Oct 23, 2014, at 1:43 PM, "Thomas D. Nadeau" >> wrote: >> >> >> We have plenty of runway in the agenda right now so I will put it dow= n >> as two items. We reserved two slots because I feel its important to >> encourage discussion during the face2face meetings so insofar as I can, = I >> want to give you enough runway to discuss this in detail. >> >> --Tom >> >> >> On Oct 23, 2014:12:13 PM, at 12:13 PM, Ladislav Lhotka >> wrote: >> >> >> Hi, >> >> >> apart from the two WG items draft-ietf-netmod-routing-cfg-16 (to be >> submitted) and draft-ietf-netmod-yang-json-01, I=E2=80=99d like to discu= ss the draft >> and draft-lhotka-netmod-yang-metadata-00. I think 5 minutes would be eno= ugh >> for the latter, I could even do it together with yang-json. >> >> >> Thanks, Lada >> >> >> On 23 Oct 2014, at 18:02, Andy Bierman wrote: >> >> >> >> >> On Tue, Oct 21, 2014 at 2:34 PM, Thomas D. Nadeau >> wrote: >> >> >> Not yet. Please propose topics. >> >> >> >> I would like 15 min. to discuss YANG conformance issues, specified in th= is >> draft: >> >> http://www.ietf.org/id/draft-bierman-netmod-yang-conformance-04.txt >> >> >> These issues may get resolved in the NETCONF YANG 1.1 virtual interim >> >> meeting next week. If not, this topic should be discussed at the IETF >> meeting. >> >> >> >> =E2=80=94Tom >> >> >> Andy >> >> >> >> >> On Oct 21, 2014:5:32 PM, at 5:32 PM, Sterne, Jason (Jason) >> wrote: >> >> >> Hi all, >> >> >> Is there a preliminary agenda for the two NETMOD sessions at IETF91 ? >> >> >> Some thought about topics being split between the 1st (longer) and 2nd >> (shorter) sessions ? >> >> >> Thanks, >> >> Jason >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> >> netmod mailing list >> >> netmod@ietf.org >> >> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/netmod >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> >> netmod mailing list >> >> netmod@ietf.org >> >> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/netmod >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> >> netmod mailing list >> >> netmod@ietf.org >> >> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/netmod >> >> >> -- >> >> Ladislav Lhotka, CZ.NIC Labs >> >> PGP Key ID: E74E8C0C >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> netmod mailing list >> netmod@ietf.org >> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/netmod >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> netmod mailing list >> netmod@ietf.org >> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/netmod >> >> > > > _______________________________________________ > netmod mailing list > netmod@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/netmod > From nobody Tue Nov 4 15:26:14 2014 Return-Path: X-Original-To: netmod@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: netmod@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id E79921A19EE for ; Tue, 4 Nov 2014 15:26:11 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.999 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.999 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id EZome7t3fsdJ for ; Tue, 4 Nov 2014 15:26:07 -0800 (PST) Received: from mail-qa0-x233.google.com (mail-qa0-x233.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:400d:c00::233]) (using TLSv1 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-RC4-SHA (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 85F661A0636 for ; Tue, 4 Nov 2014 15:26:07 -0800 (PST) Received: by mail-qa0-f51.google.com with SMTP id f12so10805673qad.10 for ; Tue, 04 Nov 2014 15:26:06 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20120113; h=mime-version:references:from:date:message-id:subject:to:cc :content-type; bh=WpVrLDR3Uupmgs6MlBmlJkcIUlh9KWC83BP4z319oos=; b=HZ2Q0EMeYYpwyM0zus2TvPkbCbsfoUD/iDl8wjHsms2oUY3ZYL07JaLIARNkI1hlZM 3lR6nCs6RAOD26QqBa/gfxqKTAtyY1BWMEJrmXc71hPdAOVeMjpXFfHsSpezu/4okimc Q3UgvstHGEUjZcLSelZkHW4+ljLPCgJ3xUBQH74VJp4EqiFB/5NFz23K5MQ1ssvhsc+n NdsOdTcyVVP0Mm37veLOQF4W9DB511XdemknlzDxXTUUVspBwuV1QNODidNsww923MUL TCeGm6VdqoJHTJbF1gTUgkxzapFiZjCN7b49m0/frEVKyl3ITaf5AKyIn2PbP5s7jWi3 NQjg== X-Received: by 10.140.108.182 with SMTP id j51mr77806488qgf.27.1415143566603; Tue, 04 Nov 2014 15:26:06 -0800 (PST) MIME-Version: 1.0 References: <79054E89-2D09-4461-8D35-8F6FA025B71F@nic.cz> <43060BE7-53EA-4B9D-B778-2FED58C0D60C@lucidvision.com> <52AE09CB-D4AB-4421-BBA4-1D9C45EA6957@gmail.com> <54590195.3010903@cisco.com> <54595361.5000907@cisco.com> From: Mahesh Jethanandani Date: Tue, 04 Nov 2014 23:26:06 +0000 Message-ID: To: Benoit Claise , "Thomas D. Nadeau" Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=001a113a54a497fda1050710c9dd Archived-At: http://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/netmod/wmR8cYOebFYejPEMj8trwxcsg0o Cc: "netmod@ietf.org" , "rtg-ads@tools.ietf.org" Subject: Re: [netmod] IETF91 NETMOD agenda ? X-BeenThere: netmod@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: NETMOD WG list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 04 Nov 2014 23:26:12 -0000 --001a113a54a497fda1050710c9dd Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Benoit, The suggestion came from Jason on having the design teams do the update and the WG seemed to agree. I understand and 'am ok with the fact that it probably does not make sense for the update to happen in NETMOD itself. For anyone who is still interested, they can plan to attend BFD WG where it will be presented. One item that might be useful: - =E2=80=9CDesign Teams=E2=80=9D update: o List of all known =E2=80=9Cdesign teams=E2=80=9D that are working on YA= NG models (especially ones that may be progressing outside of the IETF mailing lists) o Ideally a brief status update from one of the primary leaders/contributors (i.e. a few bullet points / 1-2 minutes) for each one (not to discuss the technical details of specific models =E2=80=93 that cou= ld be other agenda items) Regards, Jason On Tue Nov 04 2014 at 2:29:55 PM Benoit Claise wrote: > Mahesh, > > Benoit, > > I was going to give a quick update on the BFD YANG model, which is being > presented/discussed in its own WG. > > I wonder which ideal outcome you want a presentation in the NETMOD WG? > > Here's the list of drafts that have normative or unclassified references > to YANG: > > draft-vanderstok-core-comi-05 2014-10-27 Active > draft-shi-alto-yang-json-00 2014-10-27 Active > draft-shi-alto-yang-model-00 2014-10-27 Active > draft-netmod-clemm-datastore-push-00 2014-10-27 Active > draft-wildes-netmod-syslog-model-05 2014-10-27 Active > draft-zhang-nvo3-yang-active-active-cfg-00 2014-10-27 Active > draft-zaalouk-supa-configuration-model-01 2014-10-27 Active > draft-wang-lime-rpc-yang-oam-management-00 2014-10-27 Active > draft-vergara-flexigrid-yang-00 2014-10-27 Active > draft-gandhi-mpls-te-yang-model-01 2014-10-27 Active > draft-txh-opsawg-lime-gap-analysis-01 2014-10-27 Active > draft-zheng-netmod-xmi-yang-translation-00 2014-10-27 Active > draft-chen-i2rs-mpls-ldp-info-model-00 2014-10-27 Active > draft-tripathy-cloud-sla-yang-model-00 2014-10-27 Active > draft-clemm-i2rs-yang-l3-topo-00 2014-10-27 Active > draft-contreras-supa-yang-network-topo-01 2014-10-27 Active > draft-wang-yang-bfd-oam-00 2014-10-27 Active > draft-ietf-netconf-server-model-04 2014-10-26 Active > draft-ietf-isis-yang-isis-cfg-01 2014-10-26 Active > draft-shen-l2tpext-l2tpv3-yang-model-00 2014-10-26 Active > draft-ietf-netmod-routing-cfg-16 2014-10-26 Active > draft-shaikh-idr-bgp-model-00 2014-10-26 Active > draft-ietf-netconf-restconf-03 2014-10-25 Active > draft-pkd-pce-pcep-yang-01 2014-10-25 Active > draft-sarikaya-dmm-for-wifi-01 2014-10-24 Active > draft-voit-netmod-peer-mount-requirements-01 2014-10-24 Active > draft-shi-model-json-msg-yang-00 2014-10-24 Active > draft-liu-pim-igmp-mld-yang-00 2014-10-23 Active > draft-ietf-netmod-rfc6087bis-01 2014-10-23 Active > draft-liu-pim-yang-00 2014-10-23 Active > draft-asechoud-netmod-diffserv-model-00 2014-10-22 Active > draft-dong-i2rs-l2-network-topology-00 2014-10-21 Active > draft-bierman-netconf-efficiency-extensions-02 2014-10-21 Active > draft-zhang-nvo3-yang-cfg-00 2014-10-21 Active > draft-sun-softwire-yang-00 2014-10-20 Active > draft-yeung-netmod-ospf-02 2014-10-14 Active > draft-ietf-netmod-yang-json-01 2014-10-13 Active > draft-clemm-i2rs-yang-network-topo-01 2014-10-10 Active > draft-ietf-netconf-call-home-01 2014-10-10 Active > draft-bogdanovic-netmod-acl-model-02 2014-10-08 Active > draft-clemm-netmod-mount-02 2014-10-07 Active > draft-zhdankin-netmod-bgp-cfg-01 2014-10-02 Active > draft-wang-i2rs-ospf-dm-00 2014-09-26 Active > draft-bhuvan-bmwg-of-controller-benchmarking-01 2014-09-25 Active > draft-zhang-mpls-tp-yang-oam-00 2014-09-25 Active > draft-bierman-netmod-yang-conformance-04 2014-09-24 Active > draft-ietf-netmod-snmp-cfg-08 2014-09-18 In IESG > processing - ID Tracker state > draft-frank-netconf-conformance-00 2014-09-16 Active > draft-haas-i2rs-netmod-netconf-requirements-00 2014-09-12 Active > draft-lhotka-netmod-yang-metadata-00 2014-09-11 Active > draft-schoenw-lmap-yang-01 2014-09-02 Active > draft-zhuang-l2vpn-yang-cfg-00 2014-08-24 Active > draft-zhuang-l2vpn-evpn-yang-cfg-00 2014-08-16 Active > draft-chen-mpls-ldp-yang-cfg-00 2014-08-15 Active > draft-chen-mpls-te-yang-cfg-00 2014-08-15 Active > draft-zhuang-l3vpn-yang-cfg-00 2014-08-15 Active > draft-scharf-alto-yang-00 2014-07-04 Active > draft-yang-netmod-location-00 2014-07-04 Active > draft-fang-l3vpn-virtual-pe-05 2014-07-04 Active > draft-mekking-dnsop-kasp-00 2014-07-04 Active > draft-xjz-opsawg-nfvmodel-00 2014-07-04 Active > draft-liu-netmod-yang-abstract-topo-00 2014-07-03 Active > draft-ietf-netconf-yang-patch-01 2014-07-03 Active > draft-zheng-netmod-integrate-operations-00 2014-07-02 Active > draft-liu-netconf-multi-instances-00 2014-07-02 Active > draft-litkowski-isis-yang-isis-cfg-01 2014-06-27 Active > draft-litkowski-netmod-isis-cfg-00 2014-06-17 Active > draft-lonvick-private-tax-08 2014-06-09 Active > draft-tp-i2rs-yang-00 2014-05-08 Active > > That could be a lot of updates... > I believe we should focus on the YANG models that don't have an existing > WG. > > Reminder: A good avenue for any YANG models is > http://www.ietf.org/meeting/91/tutorials/yang-session.html > > Regards, Benoit > > > > > On Tue Nov 04 2014 at 8:40:55 AM Benoit Claise wrote: > >> Mahesh, >> >> Not sure what exactly you want to present but let me draw your attention >> that the routing-related modules should be taken care of in their >> respective WG. See >> http://www.ietf.org/mail-archive/web/rtg-yang-coord/current/msg00094.htm= l >> >> Regards, Benoit >> >> Tom, >> >> I am giving an update on the BFD YANG model in the BFD WG. I can give a >> quick update (~1-2min) in NETMOD if such an update is desired. >> >> *Mahesh Jethanandani* >> mjethanandani@gmail.com >> >> On Oct 23, 2014, at 1:43 PM, "Thomas D. Nadeau" >> wrote: >> >> >> We have plenty of runway in the agenda right now so I will put it >> down as two items. We reserved two slots because I feel its important to >> encourage discussion during the face2face meetings so insofar as I can, = I >> want to give you enough runway to discuss this in detail. >> >> --Tom >> >> >> On Oct 23, 2014:12:13 PM, at 12:13 PM, Ladislav Lhotka >> wrote: >> >> >> Hi, >> >> >> apart from the two WG items draft-ietf-netmod-routing-cfg-16 (to be >> submitted) and draft-ietf-netmod-yang-json-01, I=E2=80=99d like to discu= ss the >> draft and draft-lhotka-netmod-yang-metadata-00. I think 5 minutes would = be >> enough for the latter, I could even do it together with yang-json. >> >> >> Thanks, Lada >> >> >> On 23 Oct 2014, at 18:02, Andy Bierman wrote: >> >> >> >> >> On Tue, Oct 21, 2014 at 2:34 PM, Thomas D. Nadeau < >> tnadeau@lucidvision.com> wrote: >> >> >> Not yet. Please propose topics. >> >> >> >> I would like 15 min. to discuss YANG conformance issues, specified in >> this draft: >> >> http://www.ietf.org/id/draft-bierman-netmod-yang-conformance-04.txt >> >> >> These issues may get resolved in the NETCONF YANG 1.1 virtual interim >> >> meeting next week. If not, this topic should be discussed at the IETF >> meeting. >> >> >> >> =E2=80=94Tom >> >> >> Andy >> >> >> >> >> On Oct 21, 2014:5:32 PM, at 5:32 PM, Sterne, Jason (Jason) < >> jason.sterne@alcatel-lucent.com> wrote: >> >> >> Hi all, >> >> >> Is there a preliminary agenda for the two NETMOD sessions at IETF91 ? >> >> >> >> Some thought about topics being split between the 1st (longer) and >> 2nd (shorter) sessions ? >> >> >> Thanks, >> >> Jason >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> >> netmod mailing list >> >> netmod@ietf.org >> >> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/netmod >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> >> netmod mailing list >> >> netmod@ietf.org >> >> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/netmod >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> >> netmod mailing list >> >> netmod@ietf.org >> >> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/netmod >> >> >> -- >> >> Ladislav Lhotka, CZ.NIC Labs >> >> PGP Key ID: E74E8C0C >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> netmod mailing list >> netmod@ietf.org >> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/netmod >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> netmod mailing listnetmod@ietf.orghttps://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/= netmod >> >> >> > --001a113a54a497fda1050710c9dd Content-Type: text/html; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Benoit,

The suggestion came from Jason on having the des= ign teams do the update and the WG seemed to agree. I understand and 'a= m ok with the fact that it probably does not make sense for the update to h= appen in NETMOD itself.=C2=A0

For anyone who is st= ill interested, they can plan to attend BFD WG where it will be presented.<= /div>

One item that might be useful:

<= u>=C2=A0

<= u>-=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2= =A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=E2=80=9CDesi= gn Teams=E2=80=9D update:

o=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0List of all known= =E2=80=9Cdesign teams=E2=80=9D that are working on YANG models (especially= ones that may be progressing outside of the IETF mailing lists)<= /u>

<= u>o=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0= Ideally a brief status update from one of the primary= leaders/contributors (i.e. a few bullet points / 1-2 minutes) for each one= (not to discuss the technical details of specific models =E2=80=93 that co= uld be other agenda items)

=C2=A0=

Regards,

Jason


On Tue Nov 04 2014 at 2:29:55 PM Benoit Claise <bclaise@cisco.com> wrote:
=20 =20 =20
Mahesh,
=20 Benoit,

I was going to give a quick update on the BFD YANG model, which is being presented/discussed in its own WG.
I wonder which ideal outcome you want a presentation in the NETMOD WG?

Here's the list of drafts that have normative or unclassified references to YANG:
draft-vanderstok-core-comi-05=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0= =C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2= =A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 2014-10-27=C2=A0 Active=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0
draft-shi-alto-yang-json-00=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0= =C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2= =A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 2014-10-27=C2=A0 Active=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0
draft-shi-alto-yang-model-00=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2= =A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0= =C2=A0=C2=A0 2014-10-27=C2=A0 Active=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0
draft-netmod-clemm-datastore-push-00=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2= =A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 2014-10-27=C2=A0 Active=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0
draft-wildes-netmod-syslog-model-05=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2= =A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 2014-10-27=C2=A0 Active=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0
draft-zhang-nvo3-yang-active-active-cfg-00=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2= =A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 2014-10-27=C2=A0 Active=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0
draft-zaalouk-supa-configuration-model-01=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2= =A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 2014-10-27=C2=A0 Active=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0
draft-wang-lime-rpc-yang-oam-management-00=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2= =A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 2014-10-27=C2=A0 Active=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0
draft-vergara-flexigrid-yang-00=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0= =C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 20= 14-10-27=C2=A0 Active=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0
draft-gandhi-mpls-te-yang-model-01=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2= =A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 2014-10-27=C2=A0 Active=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0
draft-txh-opsawg-lime-gap-analysis-01=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0= =C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 2014-10-27=C2=A0 Active=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0
draft-zheng-netmod-xmi-yang-translation-00=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2= =A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 2014-10-27=C2=A0 Active=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0
draft-chen-i2rs-mpls-ldp-info-model-00=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0= =C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 2014-10-27=C2=A0 Active=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0
draft-tripathy-cloud-sla-yang-model-00=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0= =C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 2014-10-27=C2=A0 Active=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0
draft-clemm-i2rs-yang-l3-topo-00=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0= =C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 2014-10-= 27=C2=A0 Active=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0
draft-contreras-supa-yang-network-topo-01=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2= =A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 2014-10-27=C2=A0 Active=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0
draft-wang-yang-bfd-oam-00=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0= =C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2= =A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 2014-10-27=C2=A0 Active=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0
draft-ietf-netconf-server-model-04=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2= =A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 2014-10-26=C2=A0 Active=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0
draft-ietf-isis-yang-isis-cfg-01=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0= =C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 2014-10-= 26=C2=A0 Active=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0
draft-shen-l2tpext-l2tpv3-yang-model-00=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0= =C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 2014-10-26=C2=A0 Active=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0
draft-ietf-netmod-routing-cfg-16=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0= =C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 2014-10-= 26=C2=A0 Active=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0
draft-shaikh-idr-bgp-model-00=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2= =A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0= =C2=A0 2014-10-26=C2=A0 Active=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0
draft-ietf-netconf-restconf-03=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2= =A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0= 2014-10-25=C2=A0 Active=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0
draft-pkd-pce-pcep-yang-01=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0= =C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2= =A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 2014-10-25=C2=A0 Active=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0
draft-sarikaya-dmm-for-wifi-01=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2= =A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0= 2014-10-24=C2=A0 Active=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0
draft-voit-netmod-peer-mount-requirements-01=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0= =C2=A0 2014-10-24=C2=A0 Active=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0
draft-shi-model-json-msg-yang-00=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0= =C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 2014-10-= 24=C2=A0 Active=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0
draft-liu-pim-igmp-mld-yang-00=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2= =A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0= 2014-10-23=C2=A0 Active=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0
draft-ietf-netmod-rfc6087bis-01=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0= =C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 20= 14-10-23=C2=A0 Active=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0
draft-liu-pim-yang-00=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0= =C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2= =A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 2014-10-23=C2=A0 Active=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0
draft-asechoud-netmod-diffserv-model-00=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0= =C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 2014-10-22=C2=A0 Active=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0
draft-dong-i2rs-l2-network-topology-00=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0= =C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 2014-10-21=C2=A0 Active=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0
draft-bierman-netconf-efficiency-extensions-02=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 2014= -10-21=C2=A0 Active=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0
draft-zhang-nvo3-yang-cfg-00=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2= =A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0= =C2=A0=C2=A0 2014-10-21=C2=A0 Active=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0
draft-sun-softwire-yang-00=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0= =C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2= =A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 2014-10-20=C2=A0 Active=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0
draft-yeung-netmod-ospf-02=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0= =C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2= =A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 2014-10-14=C2=A0 Active=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0
draft-ietf-netmod-yang-json-01=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2= =A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0= 2014-10-13=C2=A0 Active=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0
draft-clemm-i2rs-yang-network-topo-01=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0= =C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 2014-10-10=C2=A0 Active=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0
draft-ietf-netconf-call-home-01=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0= =C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 20= 14-10-10=C2=A0 Active=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0
draft-bogdanovic-netmod-acl-model-02=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2= =A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 2014-10-08=C2=A0 Active=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0
draft-clemm-netmod-mount-02=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0= =C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2= =A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 2014-10-07=C2=A0 Active=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0
draft-zhdankin-netmod-bgp-cfg-01=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0= =C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 2014-10-= 02=C2=A0 Active=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0
draft-wang-i2rs-ospf-dm-00=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0= =C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2= =A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 2014-09-26=C2=A0 Active=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0
draft-bhuvan-bmwg-of-controller-benchmarking-01=C2=A0=C2=A0 2014-09-2= 5=C2=A0 Active=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0
draft-zhang-mpls-tp-yang-oam-00=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0= =C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 20= 14-09-25=C2=A0 Active=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0
draft-bierman-netmod-yang-conformance-04=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2= =A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 2014-09-24=C2=A0 Active=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0
draft-ietf-netmod-snmp-cfg-08=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2= =A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0= =C2=A0 2014-09-18=C2=A0 In IESG processing - ID Tracker state <RFC Ed Queue>=C2=A0=C2=A0= =C2=A0
draft-frank-netconf-conformance-00=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2= =A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 2014-09-16=C2=A0 Active=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0
draft-haas-i2rs-netmod-netconf-requirements-00=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 2014= -09-12=C2=A0 Active=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0
draft-lhotka-netmod-yang-metadata-00=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2= =A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 2014-09-11=C2=A0 Active=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0
draft-schoenw-lmap-yang-01=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0= =C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2= =A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 2014-09-02=C2=A0 Active=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0
draft-zhuang-l2vpn-yang-cfg-00=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2= =A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0= 2014-08-24=C2=A0 Active=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0
draft-zhuang-l2vpn-evpn-yang-cfg-00=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2= =A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 2014-08-16=C2=A0 Active=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0
draft-chen-mpls-ldp-yang-cfg-00=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0= =C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 20= 14-08-15=C2=A0 Active=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0
draft-chen-mpls-te-yang-cfg-00=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2= =A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0= 2014-08-15=C2=A0 Active=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0
draft-zhuang-l3vpn-yang-cfg-00=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2= =A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0= 2014-08-15=C2=A0 Active=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0
draft-scharf-alto-yang-00=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0= =C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2= =A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 2014-07-04=C2=A0 Active=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0
draft-yang-netmod-location-00=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2= =A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0= =C2=A0 2014-07-04=C2=A0 Active=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0
draft-fang-l3vpn-virtual-pe-05=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2= =A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0= 2014-07-04=C2=A0 Active=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0
draft-mekking-dnsop-kasp-00=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0= =C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2= =A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 2014-07-04=C2=A0 Active=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0
draft-xjz-opsawg-nfvmodel-00=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2= =A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0= =C2=A0=C2=A0 2014-07-04=C2=A0 Active=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0
draft-liu-netmod-yang-abstract-topo-00=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0= =C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 2014-07-03=C2=A0 Active=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0
draft-ietf-netconf-yang-patch-01=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0= =C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 2014-07-= 03=C2=A0 Active=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0
draft-zheng-netmod-integrate-operations-00=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2= =A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 2014-07-02=C2=A0 Active=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0
draft-liu-netconf-multi-instances-00=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2= =A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 2014-07-02=C2=A0 Active=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0
draft-litkowski-isis-yang-isis-cfg-01=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0= =C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 2014-06-27=C2=A0 Active=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0
draft-litkowski-netmod-isis-cfg-00=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2= =A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 2014-06-17=C2=A0 Active=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0
draft-lonvick-private-tax-08=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2= =A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0= =C2=A0=C2=A0 2014-06-09=C2=A0 Active=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0
draft-tp-i2rs-yang-00=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0= =C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2= =A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 2014-05-08=C2=A0 Active=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0
That could be a lot of updates...
I believe we should focus on the YANG models that don't have an existing WG.

Reminder: A good avenue for any YANG models is http://www.ietf.org/meeting/91/tutorials/yang-session.htm= l

Regards, Benoit




On Tue Nov 04 2014 at 8:40:55 AM Benoit Claise <b= claise@cisco.com> wrote:
Mahesh,

Not sure what exactly you want to present but let me draw your attention that the routing-related modules should be taken care of in their respective WG. See http://www.ietf.org/mail-archive= /web/rtg-yang-coord/current/msg00094.html

Regards, Benoit
Tom,

I am giving an update on the BFD YANG model in the BFD WG. I can give a quick update (~1-2min) in NETMOD if such an update is desired.

Mahesh Jethanandani

On Oct 23, 2014, at 1:43 PM, "Thomas D. Nadeau" &= lt;tnadeau@luc= idvision.com> wrote:


=C2=A0 =C2=A0We have plenty of runway in the agend= a right now so I will put it down as two items. We reserved two slots because I feel its important to encourage discussion during the face2face meetings so insofar as I can, I want to give you enough runway to discuss this in detail.

=C2=A0 =C2=A0--Tom


On Oct 23, 2014:12:13 PM, at 12:13 PM, Ladislav Lhotka <lhotka@nic.cz> wrote:

Hi,

apart from the two WG items draft-ietf-netmod-routing-cfg-16 (to be submitted) and draft-ietf-netmod-yang-json-01, I=E2= =80=99d like to discuss the draft and draft-lhotka-netmod-yang-metadata-00. I think 5 minutes would be enough for the latter, I could even do it together with yang-json.

Thanks, Lada

On 23 Oct 2014, at 18:02, Andy Bierman <andy@yumaworks.com> wrote:



On Tue, Oct 21, 2014 at 2:34 PM, Thomas D. Nadeau <tnadeau@lucidvision.com> wrote:

=C2=A0 =C2=A0Not yet. = Please propose topics.


I would like 15 min. to discuss YANG conformance issues, specified in this draft:
= http://www.ietf.org/id/draft-bierman-netmod-yang-conformance-04.txt

These issues may get resolved in the NETCONF YANG 1.1 virtual interim
meeting next week. If not, this topic should be discussed at the IETF meeting.


=C2=A0 =C2=A0=E2=80=94= Tom

Andy



On Oct 21, 2014:5:32 PM, at 5:32 PM, Sterne, Jason (Jason) <jason.sterne@= alcatel-lucent.com> wrote:

Hi all,

Is there a preliminary agenda for the two NETMOD sessions at IETF91 ? =C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0

Some thought about topics being split between the 1st (longer) and 2nd (shorter) sessions ?

Thanks,
Jason

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https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/netmod


--001a113a54a497fda1050710c9dd-- From nobody Tue Nov 4 15:49:23 2014 Return-Path: X-Original-To: netmod@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: netmod@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 959321A1A42 for ; Tue, 4 Nov 2014 15:49:21 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -15.094 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-15.094 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_HI=-5, RP_MATCHES_RCVD=-0.594, SPF_PASS=-0.001, USER_IN_DEF_DKIM_WL=-7.5] autolearn=ham Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 0asbU0Zv7WmQ for ; Tue, 4 Nov 2014 15:49:17 -0800 (PST) Received: from aer-iport-2.cisco.com (aer-iport-2.cisco.com [173.38.203.52]) (using TLSv1 with cipher RC4-SHA (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 210AC1A064C for ; Tue, 4 Nov 2014 15:49:16 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/simple; d=cisco.com; i=@cisco.com; l=22647; q=dns/txt; s=iport; t=1415144957; x=1416354557; h=message-id:date:from:mime-version:to:cc:subject: references:in-reply-to; bh=rkVcNqoOcrKz0Sw3T1yz4h36j/OlKYHDDvmGdG3/qYs=; b=eBmrlFPlsDeTg+nXJHiOt7vdM6j+OQmGEoObDvMGE9Qy/twhb0CgZ4dd pUW+IbugWkpO277ZMMnBUyYirf7pvmgkaCtcqlUWzZNnkZIw01ihokZVz KOKoheLic1EzOUlp0s0GmparQNekFWAdzWV+Ak+t2Og/EhmprKbknr4Xf I=; X-IronPort-Anti-Spam-Filtered: true X-IronPort-Anti-Spam-Result: ArIEALllWVStJssW/2dsb2JhbABbAYNhWc5eAQuGd1QCgTcBAQEBAX2EAwEBBAEBASBIAwoBEAsYCRYLAgIJAwIBAgEPBjAGDQEFAgEBBYgjAxINsgaOUQ2GLQEBAQEBAQEBAQEBAQEBAQEBAQEBAReOVoFXEgEBTweCd4FUBYRqkgiBeoJNQ4ISgTGDTIJ3hyxCgmeECYN5PC8BgQ6BPAEBAQ X-IronPort-AV: E=Sophos;i="5.07,316,1413244800"; d="scan'208,217";a="235143942" Received: from aer-iport-nat.cisco.com (HELO aer-core-1.cisco.com) ([173.38.203.22]) by aer-iport-2.cisco.com with ESMTP; 04 Nov 2014 23:49:14 +0000 Received: from [10.60.67.84] (ams-bclaise-8913.cisco.com [10.60.67.84]) by aer-core-1.cisco.com (8.14.5/8.14.5) with ESMTP id sA4NnErn011236; Tue, 4 Nov 2014 23:49:14 GMT Message-ID: <545965FA.2050308@cisco.com> Date: Wed, 05 Nov 2014 00:49:14 +0100 From: Benoit Claise User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 6.1; WOW64; rv:24.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/24.7.0 MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Andy Bierman References: <79054E89-2D09-4461-8D35-8F6FA025B71F@nic.cz> <43060BE7-53EA-4B9D-B778-2FED58C0D60C@lucidvision.com> <52AE09CB-D4AB-4421-BBA4-1D9C45EA6957@gmail.com> <54590195.3010903@cisco.com> <54595361.5000907@cisco.com> In-Reply-To: Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="------------020607080705010306050002" Archived-At: http://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/netmod/TfAy7PvyLElR3thMgeuIghbo9ik Cc: "netmod@ietf.org" , "rtg-ads@tools.ietf.org" Subject: Re: [netmod] IETF91 NETMOD agenda ? X-BeenThere: netmod@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: NETMOD WG list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 04 Nov 2014 23:49:21 -0000 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --------------020607080705010306050002 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit On 05/11/2014 00:20, Andy Bierman wrote: > On Tue, Nov 4, 2014 at 2:29 PM, Benoit Claise wrote: >> Mahesh, >> >> Benoit, >> >> I was going to give a quick update on the BFD YANG model, which is being >> presented/discussed in its own WG. >> >> I wonder which ideal outcome you want a presentation in the NETMOD WG? >> >> Here's the list of drafts that have normative or unclassified references to >> YANG: >> >> draft-vanderstok-core-comi-05 2014-10-27 Active >> draft-shi-alto-yang-json-00 2014-10-27 Active >> draft-shi-alto-yang-model-00 2014-10-27 Active >> draft-netmod-clemm-datastore-push-00 2014-10-27 Active >> draft-wildes-netmod-syslog-model-05 2014-10-27 Active >> draft-zhang-nvo3-yang-active-active-cfg-00 2014-10-27 Active >> draft-zaalouk-supa-configuration-model-01 2014-10-27 Active >> draft-wang-lime-rpc-yang-oam-management-00 2014-10-27 Active >> draft-vergara-flexigrid-yang-00 2014-10-27 Active >> draft-gandhi-mpls-te-yang-model-01 2014-10-27 Active >> draft-txh-opsawg-lime-gap-analysis-01 2014-10-27 Active >> draft-zheng-netmod-xmi-yang-translation-00 2014-10-27 Active >> draft-chen-i2rs-mpls-ldp-info-model-00 2014-10-27 Active >> draft-tripathy-cloud-sla-yang-model-00 2014-10-27 Active >> draft-clemm-i2rs-yang-l3-topo-00 2014-10-27 Active >> draft-contreras-supa-yang-network-topo-01 2014-10-27 Active >> draft-wang-yang-bfd-oam-00 2014-10-27 Active >> draft-ietf-netconf-server-model-04 2014-10-26 Active >> draft-ietf-isis-yang-isis-cfg-01 2014-10-26 Active >> draft-shen-l2tpext-l2tpv3-yang-model-00 2014-10-26 Active >> draft-ietf-netmod-routing-cfg-16 2014-10-26 Active >> draft-shaikh-idr-bgp-model-00 2014-10-26 Active >> draft-ietf-netconf-restconf-03 2014-10-25 Active >> draft-pkd-pce-pcep-yang-01 2014-10-25 Active >> draft-sarikaya-dmm-for-wifi-01 2014-10-24 Active >> draft-voit-netmod-peer-mount-requirements-01 2014-10-24 Active >> draft-shi-model-json-msg-yang-00 2014-10-24 Active >> draft-liu-pim-igmp-mld-yang-00 2014-10-23 Active >> draft-ietf-netmod-rfc6087bis-01 2014-10-23 Active >> draft-liu-pim-yang-00 2014-10-23 Active >> draft-asechoud-netmod-diffserv-model-00 2014-10-22 Active >> draft-dong-i2rs-l2-network-topology-00 2014-10-21 Active >> draft-bierman-netconf-efficiency-extensions-02 2014-10-21 Active >> draft-zhang-nvo3-yang-cfg-00 2014-10-21 Active >> draft-sun-softwire-yang-00 2014-10-20 Active >> draft-yeung-netmod-ospf-02 2014-10-14 Active >> draft-ietf-netmod-yang-json-01 2014-10-13 Active >> draft-clemm-i2rs-yang-network-topo-01 2014-10-10 Active >> draft-ietf-netconf-call-home-01 2014-10-10 Active >> draft-bogdanovic-netmod-acl-model-02 2014-10-08 Active >> draft-clemm-netmod-mount-02 2014-10-07 Active >> draft-zhdankin-netmod-bgp-cfg-01 2014-10-02 Active >> draft-wang-i2rs-ospf-dm-00 2014-09-26 Active >> draft-bhuvan-bmwg-of-controller-benchmarking-01 2014-09-25 Active >> draft-zhang-mpls-tp-yang-oam-00 2014-09-25 Active >> draft-bierman-netmod-yang-conformance-04 2014-09-24 Active >> draft-ietf-netmod-snmp-cfg-08 2014-09-18 In IESG >> processing - ID Tracker state >> draft-frank-netconf-conformance-00 2014-09-16 Active >> draft-haas-i2rs-netmod-netconf-requirements-00 2014-09-12 Active >> draft-lhotka-netmod-yang-metadata-00 2014-09-11 Active >> draft-schoenw-lmap-yang-01 2014-09-02 Active >> draft-zhuang-l2vpn-yang-cfg-00 2014-08-24 Active >> draft-zhuang-l2vpn-evpn-yang-cfg-00 2014-08-16 Active >> draft-chen-mpls-ldp-yang-cfg-00 2014-08-15 Active >> draft-chen-mpls-te-yang-cfg-00 2014-08-15 Active >> draft-zhuang-l3vpn-yang-cfg-00 2014-08-15 Active >> draft-scharf-alto-yang-00 2014-07-04 Active >> draft-yang-netmod-location-00 2014-07-04 Active >> draft-fang-l3vpn-virtual-pe-05 2014-07-04 Active >> draft-mekking-dnsop-kasp-00 2014-07-04 Active >> draft-xjz-opsawg-nfvmodel-00 2014-07-04 Active >> draft-liu-netmod-yang-abstract-topo-00 2014-07-03 Active >> draft-ietf-netconf-yang-patch-01 2014-07-03 Active >> draft-zheng-netmod-integrate-operations-00 2014-07-02 Active >> draft-liu-netconf-multi-instances-00 2014-07-02 Active >> draft-litkowski-isis-yang-isis-cfg-01 2014-06-27 Active >> draft-litkowski-netmod-isis-cfg-00 2014-06-17 Active >> draft-lonvick-private-tax-08 2014-06-09 Active >> draft-tp-i2rs-yang-00 2014-05-08 Active >> >> That could be a lot of updates... >> I believe we should focus on the YANG models that don't have an existing WG. >> > I would prefer to spend all the meeting time > trying to discuss open issues in chartered items. I don't see why > the NETMOD WG needs to spend time on status reports for > any unchartered work. > > I don't agree that NETMOD WG should be the home of SYSLOG > or any other protocol specific data models. IMO all those type of drafts > should try to find a home in a protocol WG with the right experts. Sure, /NIMY/ (/Not In My Yard/) is the easy answer. And where should we have syslog? https://datatracker.ietf.org/wg/syslog/charter/ is concluded Regards, Benoit > > > > Andy > > > >> Reminder: A good avenue for any YANG models is >> http://www.ietf.org/meeting/91/tutorials/yang-session.html >> >> Regards, Benoit >> >> >> >> >> On Tue Nov 04 2014 at 8:40:55 AM Benoit Claise wrote: >>> Mahesh, >>> >>> Not sure what exactly you want to present but let me draw your attention >>> that the routing-related modules should be taken care of in their respective >>> WG. See >>> http://www.ietf.org/mail-archive/web/rtg-yang-coord/current/msg00094.html >>> >>> Regards, Benoit >>> >>> Tom, >>> >>> I am giving an update on the BFD YANG model in the BFD WG. I can give a >>> quick update (~1-2min) in NETMOD if such an update is desired. >>> >>> Mahesh Jethanandani >>> mjethanandani@gmail.com >>> >>> On Oct 23, 2014, at 1:43 PM, "Thomas D. Nadeau" >>> wrote: >>> >>> >>> We have plenty of runway in the agenda right now so I will put it down >>> as two items. We reserved two slots because I feel its important to >>> encourage discussion during the face2face meetings so insofar as I can, I >>> want to give you enough runway to discuss this in detail. >>> >>> --Tom >>> >>> >>> On Oct 23, 2014:12:13 PM, at 12:13 PM, Ladislav Lhotka >>> wrote: >>> >>> >>> Hi, >>> >>> >>> apart from the two WG items draft-ietf-netmod-routing-cfg-16 (to be >>> submitted) and draft-ietf-netmod-yang-json-01, I’d like to discuss the draft >>> and draft-lhotka-netmod-yang-metadata-00. I think 5 minutes would be enough >>> for the latter, I could even do it together with yang-json. >>> >>> >>> Thanks, Lada >>> >>> >>> On 23 Oct 2014, at 18:02, Andy Bierman wrote: >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> On Tue, Oct 21, 2014 at 2:34 PM, Thomas D. Nadeau >>> wrote: >>> >>> >>> Not yet. Please propose topics. >>> >>> >>> >>> I would like 15 min. to discuss YANG conformance issues, specified in this >>> draft: >>> >>> http://www.ietf.org/id/draft-bierman-netmod-yang-conformance-04.txt >>> >>> >>> These issues may get resolved in the NETCONF YANG 1.1 virtual interim >>> >>> meeting next week. If not, this topic should be discussed at the IETF >>> meeting. >>> >>> >>> >>> —Tom >>> >>> >>> Andy >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> On Oct 21, 2014:5:32 PM, at 5:32 PM, Sterne, Jason (Jason) >>> wrote: >>> >>> >>> Hi all, >>> >>> >>> Is there a preliminary agenda for the two NETMOD sessions at IETF91 ? >>> >>> >>> Some thought about topics being split between the 1st (longer) and 2nd >>> (shorter) sessions ? >>> >>> >>> Thanks, >>> >>> Jason >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> >>> netmod mailing list >>> >>> netmod@ietf.org >>> >>> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/netmod >>> >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> >>> netmod mailing list >>> >>> netmod@ietf.org >>> >>> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/netmod >>> >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> >>> netmod mailing list >>> >>> netmod@ietf.org >>> >>> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/netmod >>> >>> >>> -- >>> >>> Ladislav Lhotka, CZ.NIC Labs >>> >>> PGP Key ID: E74E8C0C >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> netmod mailing list >>> netmod@ietf.org >>> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/netmod >>> >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> netmod mailing list >>> netmod@ietf.org >>> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/netmod >>> >>> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> netmod mailing list >> netmod@ietf.org >> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/netmod >> > . > --------------020607080705010306050002 Content-Type: text/html; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit
On 05/11/2014 00:20, Andy Bierman wrote:
On Tue, Nov 4, 2014 at 2:29 PM, Benoit Claise <bclaise@cisco.com> wrote:

Mahesh,

Benoit,

I was going to give a quick update on the BFD YANG model, which is being
presented/discussed in its own WG.

I wonder which ideal outcome you want a presentation in the NETMOD WG?

Here's the list of drafts that have normative or unclassified references to
YANG:

draft-vanderstok-core-comi-05                     2014-10-27  Active
draft-shi-alto-yang-json-00                       2014-10-27  Active
draft-shi-alto-yang-model-00                      2014-10-27  Active
draft-netmod-clemm-datastore-push-00              2014-10-27  Active
draft-wildes-netmod-syslog-model-05               2014-10-27  Active
draft-zhang-nvo3-yang-active-active-cfg-00        2014-10-27  Active
draft-zaalouk-supa-configuration-model-01         2014-10-27  Active
draft-wang-lime-rpc-yang-oam-management-00        2014-10-27  Active
draft-vergara-flexigrid-yang-00                   2014-10-27  Active
draft-gandhi-mpls-te-yang-model-01                2014-10-27  Active
draft-txh-opsawg-lime-gap-analysis-01             2014-10-27  Active
draft-zheng-netmod-xmi-yang-translation-00        2014-10-27  Active
draft-chen-i2rs-mpls-ldp-info-model-00            2014-10-27  Active
draft-tripathy-cloud-sla-yang-model-00            2014-10-27  Active
draft-clemm-i2rs-yang-l3-topo-00                  2014-10-27  Active
draft-contreras-supa-yang-network-topo-01         2014-10-27  Active
draft-wang-yang-bfd-oam-00                        2014-10-27  Active
draft-ietf-netconf-server-model-04                2014-10-26  Active
draft-ietf-isis-yang-isis-cfg-01                  2014-10-26  Active
draft-shen-l2tpext-l2tpv3-yang-model-00           2014-10-26  Active
draft-ietf-netmod-routing-cfg-16                  2014-10-26  Active
draft-shaikh-idr-bgp-model-00                     2014-10-26  Active
draft-ietf-netconf-restconf-03                    2014-10-25  Active
draft-pkd-pce-pcep-yang-01                        2014-10-25  Active
draft-sarikaya-dmm-for-wifi-01                    2014-10-24  Active
draft-voit-netmod-peer-mount-requirements-01      2014-10-24  Active
draft-shi-model-json-msg-yang-00                  2014-10-24  Active
draft-liu-pim-igmp-mld-yang-00                    2014-10-23  Active
draft-ietf-netmod-rfc6087bis-01                   2014-10-23  Active
draft-liu-pim-yang-00                             2014-10-23  Active
draft-asechoud-netmod-diffserv-model-00           2014-10-22  Active
draft-dong-i2rs-l2-network-topology-00            2014-10-21  Active
draft-bierman-netconf-efficiency-extensions-02    2014-10-21  Active
draft-zhang-nvo3-yang-cfg-00                      2014-10-21  Active
draft-sun-softwire-yang-00                        2014-10-20  Active
draft-yeung-netmod-ospf-02                        2014-10-14  Active
draft-ietf-netmod-yang-json-01                    2014-10-13  Active
draft-clemm-i2rs-yang-network-topo-01             2014-10-10  Active
draft-ietf-netconf-call-home-01                   2014-10-10  Active
draft-bogdanovic-netmod-acl-model-02              2014-10-08  Active
draft-clemm-netmod-mount-02                       2014-10-07  Active
draft-zhdankin-netmod-bgp-cfg-01                  2014-10-02  Active
draft-wang-i2rs-ospf-dm-00                        2014-09-26  Active
draft-bhuvan-bmwg-of-controller-benchmarking-01   2014-09-25  Active
draft-zhang-mpls-tp-yang-oam-00                   2014-09-25  Active
draft-bierman-netmod-yang-conformance-04          2014-09-24  Active
draft-ietf-netmod-snmp-cfg-08                     2014-09-18  In IESG
processing - ID Tracker state <RFC Ed Queue>
draft-frank-netconf-conformance-00                2014-09-16  Active
draft-haas-i2rs-netmod-netconf-requirements-00    2014-09-12  Active
draft-lhotka-netmod-yang-metadata-00              2014-09-11  Active
draft-schoenw-lmap-yang-01                        2014-09-02  Active
draft-zhuang-l2vpn-yang-cfg-00                    2014-08-24  Active
draft-zhuang-l2vpn-evpn-yang-cfg-00               2014-08-16  Active
draft-chen-mpls-ldp-yang-cfg-00                   2014-08-15  Active
draft-chen-mpls-te-yang-cfg-00                    2014-08-15  Active
draft-zhuang-l3vpn-yang-cfg-00                    2014-08-15  Active
draft-scharf-alto-yang-00                         2014-07-04  Active
draft-yang-netmod-location-00                     2014-07-04  Active
draft-fang-l3vpn-virtual-pe-05                    2014-07-04  Active
draft-mekking-dnsop-kasp-00                       2014-07-04  Active
draft-xjz-opsawg-nfvmodel-00                      2014-07-04  Active
draft-liu-netmod-yang-abstract-topo-00            2014-07-03  Active
draft-ietf-netconf-yang-patch-01                  2014-07-03  Active
draft-zheng-netmod-integrate-operations-00        2014-07-02  Active
draft-liu-netconf-multi-instances-00              2014-07-02  Active
draft-litkowski-isis-yang-isis-cfg-01             2014-06-27  Active
draft-litkowski-netmod-isis-cfg-00                2014-06-17  Active
draft-lonvick-private-tax-08                      2014-06-09  Active
draft-tp-i2rs-yang-00                             2014-05-08  Active

That could be a lot of updates...
I believe we should focus on the YANG models that don't have an existing WG.


I would prefer to spend all the meeting time
trying to discuss open issues in chartered items.  I don't see why
the NETMOD WG needs to spend time on status reports for
any unchartered work.

I don't agree that NETMOD WG should be the home of SYSLOG
or any other protocol specific data models. IMO all those type of drafts
should try to find a home in a protocol WG with the right experts.
Sure, NIMY (Not In My Yard) is the easy answer.
And where should we have syslog? https://datatracker.ietf.org/wg/syslog/charter/ is concluded

Regards, Benoit



Andy




Reminder: A good avenue for any YANG models is
http://www.ietf.org/meeting/91/tutorials/yang-session.html

Regards, Benoit




On Tue Nov 04 2014 at 8:40:55 AM Benoit Claise <bclaise@cisco.com> wrote:

Mahesh,

Not sure what exactly you want to present but let me draw your attention
that the routing-related modules should be taken care of in their respective
WG. See
http://www.ietf.org/mail-archive/web/rtg-yang-coord/current/msg00094.html

Regards, Benoit

Tom,

I am giving an update on the BFD YANG model in the BFD WG. I can give a
quick update (~1-2min) in NETMOD if such an update is desired.

Mahesh Jethanandani
mjethanandani@gmail.com

On Oct 23, 2014, at 1:43 PM, "Thomas D. Nadeau" <tnadeau@lucidvision.com>
wrote:


   We have plenty of runway in the agenda right now so I will put it down
as two items. We reserved two slots because I feel its important to
encourage discussion during the face2face meetings so insofar as I can, I
want to give you enough runway to discuss this in detail.

   --Tom


On Oct 23, 2014:12:13 PM, at 12:13 PM, Ladislav Lhotka <lhotka@nic.cz>
wrote:


Hi,


apart from the two WG items draft-ietf-netmod-routing-cfg-16 (to be
submitted) and draft-ietf-netmod-yang-json-01, I’d like to discuss the draft
and draft-lhotka-netmod-yang-metadata-00. I think 5 minutes would be enough
for the latter, I could even do it together with yang-json.


Thanks, Lada


On 23 Oct 2014, at 18:02, Andy Bierman <andy@yumaworks.com> wrote:




On Tue, Oct 21, 2014 at 2:34 PM, Thomas D. Nadeau
<tnadeau@lucidvision.com> wrote:


   Not yet. Please propose topics.



I would like 15 min. to discuss YANG conformance issues, specified in this
draft:

http://www.ietf.org/id/draft-bierman-netmod-yang-conformance-04.txt


These issues may get resolved in the NETCONF YANG 1.1 virtual interim

meeting next week. If not, this topic should be discussed at the IETF
meeting.



   —Tom


Andy




On Oct 21, 2014:5:32 PM, at 5:32 PM, Sterne, Jason (Jason)
<jason.sterne@alcatel-lucent.com> wrote:


Hi all,


Is there a preliminary agenda for the two NETMOD sessions at IETF91 ?


Some thought about topics being split between the 1st (longer) and 2nd
(shorter) sessions ?


Thanks,

Jason


_______________________________________________

netmod mailing list

netmod@ietf.org

https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/netmod



_______________________________________________

netmod mailing list

netmod@ietf.org

https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/netmod



_______________________________________________

netmod mailing list

netmod@ietf.org

https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/netmod


--

Ladislav Lhotka, CZ.NIC Labs

PGP Key ID: E74E8C0C







_______________________________________________
netmod mailing list
netmod@ietf.org
https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/netmod



_______________________________________________
netmod mailing list
netmod@ietf.org
https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/netmod




_______________________________________________
netmod mailing list
netmod@ietf.org
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--------------020607080705010306050002-- From nobody Tue Nov 4 16:11:26 2014 Return-Path: X-Original-To: netmod@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: netmod@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 41E711A702B for ; Tue, 4 Nov 2014 16:11:23 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.979 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.979 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, FM_FORGED_GMAIL=0.622, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW=-0.7, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id ieQl_wQ7M-VP for ; Tue, 4 Nov 2014 16:11:17 -0800 (PST) Received: from mail-qa0-f51.google.com (mail-qa0-f51.google.com [209.85.216.51]) (using TLSv1 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-RC4-SHA (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 7D73B1A6FF6 for ; Tue, 4 Nov 2014 16:11:15 -0800 (PST) Received: by mail-qa0-f51.google.com with SMTP id f12so10851615qad.10 for ; Tue, 04 Nov 2014 16:11:14 -0800 (PST) X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20130820; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:in-reply-to:references:date :message-id:subject:from:to:cc:content-type :content-transfer-encoding; bh=6fkRlt+deAlAMgTMj1szkukGP5Y4YFSIdwxQ0T6X3qM=; b=kBbD2wHctIMAUsaaP0X3FJ2AJ2+JsfQHQ2IGSqNjzUHn5IiiGJBPrKFSCJZCbqbroX MAuEck+0uwLYhJdZm2tKm57sS5ThkhcKTpOEPfyr38FUUki4wz0/PmLO+r9D81s2afMe GAalQ4Tw3JbGx0SBRAGf6permehsHkQVAHLcVF6TbrSSLgalj8QB/p1yoCRTzkmbiRtk yEhPbJUvJ3ncPcz5eNiOGcrWnleVvNwkDlHulNEfU47qSdMSyIzHHcJTcrbHTcSmUNi8 zbwRD1i3tlPY7BEjMwIy/z06W5F7D6m5yTATVHhllcOjsfL7AsLVLsBqsYjnO8Cyj2v4 J17w== X-Gm-Message-State: ALoCoQkT9cRE35poZt2HZ7WJGLI4a6r4QTh0Es3JsPMbkBqU0hs20b4WSooEYof9E8s2j5YQJwP2 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Received: by 10.140.34.21 with SMTP id k21mr13491652qgk.21.1415146274411; Tue, 04 Nov 2014 16:11:14 -0800 (PST) Received: by 10.140.37.52 with HTTP; Tue, 4 Nov 2014 16:11:14 -0800 (PST) In-Reply-To: <545965FA.2050308@cisco.com> References: <79054E89-2D09-4461-8D35-8F6FA025B71F@nic.cz> <43060BE7-53EA-4B9D-B778-2FED58C0D60C@lucidvision.com> <52AE09CB-D4AB-4421-BBA4-1D9C45EA6957@gmail.com> <54590195.3010903@cisco.com> <54595361.5000907@cisco.com> <545965FA.2050308@cisco.com> Date: Tue, 4 Nov 2014 16:11:14 -0800 Message-ID: From: Andy Bierman To: Benoit Claise Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Archived-At: http://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/netmod/AV5z8CKZDGzLO9eobeLPCjY4818 Cc: "netmod@ietf.org" , "rtg-ads@tools.ietf.org" Subject: Re: [netmod] IETF91 NETMOD agenda ? X-BeenThere: netmod@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: NETMOD WG list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 05 Nov 2014 00:11:23 -0000 On Tue, Nov 4, 2014 at 3:49 PM, Benoit Claise wrote: > On 05/11/2014 00:20, Andy Bierman wrote: > > On Tue, Nov 4, 2014 at 2:29 PM, Benoit Claise wrote: > > Mahesh, > > Benoit, > > I was going to give a quick update on the BFD YANG model, which is being > presented/discussed in its own WG. > > I wonder which ideal outcome you want a presentation in the NETMOD WG? > > Here's the list of drafts that have normative or unclassified references = to > YANG: > > draft-vanderstok-core-comi-05 2014-10-27 Active > draft-shi-alto-yang-json-00 2014-10-27 Active > draft-shi-alto-yang-model-00 2014-10-27 Active > draft-netmod-clemm-datastore-push-00 2014-10-27 Active > draft-wildes-netmod-syslog-model-05 2014-10-27 Active > draft-zhang-nvo3-yang-active-active-cfg-00 2014-10-27 Active > draft-zaalouk-supa-configuration-model-01 2014-10-27 Active > draft-wang-lime-rpc-yang-oam-management-00 2014-10-27 Active > draft-vergara-flexigrid-yang-00 2014-10-27 Active > draft-gandhi-mpls-te-yang-model-01 2014-10-27 Active > draft-txh-opsawg-lime-gap-analysis-01 2014-10-27 Active > draft-zheng-netmod-xmi-yang-translation-00 2014-10-27 Active > draft-chen-i2rs-mpls-ldp-info-model-00 2014-10-27 Active > draft-tripathy-cloud-sla-yang-model-00 2014-10-27 Active > draft-clemm-i2rs-yang-l3-topo-00 2014-10-27 Active > draft-contreras-supa-yang-network-topo-01 2014-10-27 Active > draft-wang-yang-bfd-oam-00 2014-10-27 Active > draft-ietf-netconf-server-model-04 2014-10-26 Active > draft-ietf-isis-yang-isis-cfg-01 2014-10-26 Active > draft-shen-l2tpext-l2tpv3-yang-model-00 2014-10-26 Active > draft-ietf-netmod-routing-cfg-16 2014-10-26 Active > draft-shaikh-idr-bgp-model-00 2014-10-26 Active > draft-ietf-netconf-restconf-03 2014-10-25 Active > draft-pkd-pce-pcep-yang-01 2014-10-25 Active > draft-sarikaya-dmm-for-wifi-01 2014-10-24 Active > draft-voit-netmod-peer-mount-requirements-01 2014-10-24 Active > draft-shi-model-json-msg-yang-00 2014-10-24 Active > draft-liu-pim-igmp-mld-yang-00 2014-10-23 Active > draft-ietf-netmod-rfc6087bis-01 2014-10-23 Active > draft-liu-pim-yang-00 2014-10-23 Active > draft-asechoud-netmod-diffserv-model-00 2014-10-22 Active > draft-dong-i2rs-l2-network-topology-00 2014-10-21 Active > draft-bierman-netconf-efficiency-extensions-02 2014-10-21 Active > draft-zhang-nvo3-yang-cfg-00 2014-10-21 Active > draft-sun-softwire-yang-00 2014-10-20 Active > draft-yeung-netmod-ospf-02 2014-10-14 Active > draft-ietf-netmod-yang-json-01 2014-10-13 Active > draft-clemm-i2rs-yang-network-topo-01 2014-10-10 Active > draft-ietf-netconf-call-home-01 2014-10-10 Active > draft-bogdanovic-netmod-acl-model-02 2014-10-08 Active > draft-clemm-netmod-mount-02 2014-10-07 Active > draft-zhdankin-netmod-bgp-cfg-01 2014-10-02 Active > draft-wang-i2rs-ospf-dm-00 2014-09-26 Active > draft-bhuvan-bmwg-of-controller-benchmarking-01 2014-09-25 Active > draft-zhang-mpls-tp-yang-oam-00 2014-09-25 Active > draft-bierman-netmod-yang-conformance-04 2014-09-24 Active > draft-ietf-netmod-snmp-cfg-08 2014-09-18 In IESG > processing - ID Tracker state > draft-frank-netconf-conformance-00 2014-09-16 Active > draft-haas-i2rs-netmod-netconf-requirements-00 2014-09-12 Active > draft-lhotka-netmod-yang-metadata-00 2014-09-11 Active > draft-schoenw-lmap-yang-01 2014-09-02 Active > draft-zhuang-l2vpn-yang-cfg-00 2014-08-24 Active > draft-zhuang-l2vpn-evpn-yang-cfg-00 2014-08-16 Active > draft-chen-mpls-ldp-yang-cfg-00 2014-08-15 Active > draft-chen-mpls-te-yang-cfg-00 2014-08-15 Active > draft-zhuang-l3vpn-yang-cfg-00 2014-08-15 Active > draft-scharf-alto-yang-00 2014-07-04 Active > draft-yang-netmod-location-00 2014-07-04 Active > draft-fang-l3vpn-virtual-pe-05 2014-07-04 Active > draft-mekking-dnsop-kasp-00 2014-07-04 Active > draft-xjz-opsawg-nfvmodel-00 2014-07-04 Active > draft-liu-netmod-yang-abstract-topo-00 2014-07-03 Active > draft-ietf-netconf-yang-patch-01 2014-07-03 Active > draft-zheng-netmod-integrate-operations-00 2014-07-02 Active > draft-liu-netconf-multi-instances-00 2014-07-02 Active > draft-litkowski-isis-yang-isis-cfg-01 2014-06-27 Active > draft-litkowski-netmod-isis-cfg-00 2014-06-17 Active > draft-lonvick-private-tax-08 2014-06-09 Active > draft-tp-i2rs-yang-00 2014-05-08 Active > > That could be a lot of updates... > I believe we should focus on the YANG models that don't have an existing = WG. > > I would prefer to spend all the meeting time > trying to discuss open issues in chartered items. I don't see why > the NETMOD WG needs to spend time on status reports for > any unchartered work. > > I don't agree that NETMOD WG should be the home of SYSLOG > or any other protocol specific data models. IMO all those type of drafts > should try to find a home in a protocol WG with the right experts. > > Sure, NIMY (Not In My Yard) is the easy answer. > And where should we have syslog? > https://datatracker.ietf.org/wg/syslog/charter/ is concluded > It is not NIMBY. The YANG experts are not all SYSLOG experts. Getting the right people in the room is important (you said that ;-) Making a few SYSLOG experts sit through 140 minutes of unrelated material may not be the best option for them either. It is unfortunate that the SYSLOG WG has decided the protocol is complete and no further work is needed. I don't agree IETF process should be a good reason to choose NETMOD WG. This draft is already chartered and I am not trying to stop the SYSLOG work. I don't want it to start a trend though. > Regards, Benoit > > Andy > > Andy > > > > Reminder: A good avenue for any YANG models is > http://www.ietf.org/meeting/91/tutorials/yang-session.html > > Regards, Benoit > > > > > On Tue Nov 04 2014 at 8:40:55 AM Benoit Claise wrote: > > Mahesh, > > Not sure what exactly you want to present but let me draw your attention > that the routing-related modules should be taken care of in their respect= ive > WG. See > http://www.ietf.org/mail-archive/web/rtg-yang-coord/current/msg00094.html > > Regards, Benoit > > Tom, > > I am giving an update on the BFD YANG model in the BFD WG. I can give a > quick update (~1-2min) in NETMOD if such an update is desired. > > Mahesh Jethanandani > mjethanandani@gmail.com > > On Oct 23, 2014, at 1:43 PM, "Thomas D. Nadeau" > wrote: > > > We have plenty of runway in the agenda right now so I will put it down > as two items. We reserved two slots because I feel its important to > encourage discussion during the face2face meetings so insofar as I can, I > want to give you enough runway to discuss this in detail. > > --Tom > > > On Oct 23, 2014:12:13 PM, at 12:13 PM, Ladislav Lhotka > wrote: > > > Hi, > > > apart from the two WG items draft-ietf-netmod-routing-cfg-16 (to be > submitted) and draft-ietf-netmod-yang-json-01, I=E2=80=99d like to discus= s the draft > and draft-lhotka-netmod-yang-metadata-00. I think 5 minutes would be enou= gh > for the latter, I could even do it together with yang-json. > > > Thanks, Lada > > > On 23 Oct 2014, at 18:02, Andy Bierman wrote: > > > > > On Tue, Oct 21, 2014 at 2:34 PM, Thomas D. Nadeau > wrote: > > > Not yet. Please propose topics. > > > > I would like 15 min. to discuss YANG conformance issues, specified in thi= s > draft: > > http://www.ietf.org/id/draft-bierman-netmod-yang-conformance-04.txt > > > These issues may get resolved in the NETCONF YANG 1.1 virtual interim > > meeting next week. If not, this topic should be discussed at the IETF > meeting. > > > > =E2=80=94Tom > > > Andy > > > > > On Oct 21, 2014:5:32 PM, at 5:32 PM, Sterne, Jason (Jason) > wrote: > > > Hi all, > > > Is there a preliminary agenda for the two NETMOD sessions at IETF91 ? > > > Some thought about topics being split between the 1st (longer) and 2nd > (shorter) sessions ? > > > Thanks, > > Jason > > > _______________________________________________ > > netmod mailing list > > netmod@ietf.org > > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/netmod > > > > _______________________________________________ > > netmod mailing list > > netmod@ietf.org > > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/netmod > > > > _______________________________________________ > > netmod mailing list > > netmod@ietf.org > > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/netmod > > > -- > > Ladislav Lhotka, CZ.NIC Labs > > PGP Key ID: E74E8C0C > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > netmod mailing list > netmod@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/netmod > > > > _______________________________________________ > netmod mailing list > netmod@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/netmod > > > > _______________________________________________ > netmod mailing list > netmod@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/netmod > > . > > From nobody Tue Nov 4 23:30:28 2014 Return-Path: X-Original-To: netmod@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: netmod@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id BF1F21A3BA4 for ; Tue, 4 Nov 2014 23:30:27 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.006 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.006 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, CN_BODY_35=0.339, MIME_CHARSET_FARAWAY=2.45, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-2.3, RP_MATCHES_RCVD=-0.594, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id WVNnZqt00S53 for ; Tue, 4 Nov 2014 23:30:26 -0800 (PST) Received: from lhrrgout.huawei.com (lhrrgout.huawei.com [194.213.3.17]) (using TLSv1 with cipher RC4-SHA (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 996B71A1F73 for ; Tue, 4 Nov 2014 23:30:25 -0800 (PST) Received: from 172.18.7.190 (EHLO lhreml404-hub.china.huawei.com) ([172.18.7.190]) by lhrrg01-dlp.huawei.com (MOS 4.3.7-GA FastPath queued) with ESMTP id BOK89350; Wed, 05 Nov 2014 07:30:24 +0000 (GMT) Received: from SZXEML416-HUB.china.huawei.com (10.82.67.155) by lhreml404-hub.china.huawei.com (10.201.5.218) with Microsoft SMTP Server (TLS) id 14.3.158.1; Wed, 5 Nov 2014 07:30:23 +0000 Received: from SZXEML501-MBX.china.huawei.com ([169.254.1.231]) by szxeml416-hub.china.huawei.com ([10.82.67.155]) with mapi id 14.03.0158.001; Wed, 5 Nov 2014 15:30:18 +0800 From: wangzitao To: Martin Bjorklund , "balazs.lengyel@ericsson.com" Thread-Topic: [netmod] Multiple replace operations on a YANG 1.1 leaf-list Thread-Index: AQHP+CuyVH8SQGaBb0mj/Hu8RvMgwJxP8bAAgAGyF3A= Date: Wed, 5 Nov 2014 07:30:17 +0000 Message-ID: References: <5458C7D2.5000001@ericsson.com> <20141104.143434.799725916411839357.mbj@tail-f.com> In-Reply-To: <20141104.143434.799725916411839357.mbj@tail-f.com> Accept-Language: zh-CN, en-US Content-Language: zh-CN X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-originating-ip: [10.138.41.131] Content-Type: text/plain; charset="gb2312" Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-CFilter-Loop: Reflected Archived-At: http://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/netmod/sa2JnR_FhFtLBv104FRctHWrX2o Cc: "netmod@ietf.org" Subject: Re: [netmod] Multiple replace operations on a YANG 1.1 leaf-list X-BeenThere: netmod@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: NETMOD WG list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 05 Nov 2014 07:30:27 -0000 LS0tLS3Tyrz+1K28/i0tLS0tDQq3orz+yMs6IG5ldG1vZCBbbWFpbHRvOm5ldG1vZC1ib3VuY2Vz QGlldGYub3JnXSC0+rHtIE1hcnRpbiBCam9ya2x1bmQNCreiy83KsbzkOiAyMDE0xOoxMdTCNMjV IDIxOjM1DQrK1bz+yMs6IGJhbGF6cy5sZW5neWVsQGVyaWNzc29uLmNvbQ0Ks63LzTogbmV0bW9k QGlldGYub3JnDQrW98ziOiBSZTogW25ldG1vZF0gTXVsdGlwbGUgcmVwbGFjZSBvcGVyYXRpb25z IG9uIGEgWUFORyAxLjEgbGVhZi1saXN0DQoNCkJhbGF6cyBMZW5neWVsIDxiYWxhenMubGVuZ3ll bEBlcmljc3Nvbi5jb20+IHdyb3RlOg0KPiBIZWxsbywNCj4geWFuZy12ZXJzaW9uIDE7DQo+IGxl YWYtbGlzdCBmb28gew0KPiAgICB0eXBlIHN0cmluZzsNCj4gfQ0KDQpJIGFzc3VtZSB5b3UgbWVh bnQgb3JkZXJlZC1ieSB1c2VyIGFzIHdlbGwuDQoNCj4gSW5pdGlhbGx5IGZvbyA9IFthLGJdDQo+ IA0KPiA8ZWRpdC1jb25maWc+DQo+ICAgIDxjb25maWc+DQo+ICAgICAgIDxmb28gb3BlcmF0aW9u PSJyZXBsYWNlIj5hPC9mb28+DQo+ICAgICAgIDxmb28gb3BlcmF0aW9uPSJyZXBsYWNlIj5hPC9m b28+DQo+ICAgIDwvY29uZmlnPg0KPiA8L2VkaXQtY29uZmlnPg0KPiANCj4gSXMgdGhpcyBhbGxv d2VkPyBJTUhPIHllcyBhbmQgdGhlIHJlc3VsdCB3aWxsIGJlIGZvbyA9IFtiLGFdIEFncmVlPw0K DQpObywgdGhlIHJlc3VsdCB3b3VsZCBiZToNCg0KICBmb28gPSBbYSxiXQ0KDQpUaGUgcmVwbGFj ZSBvcGVyYXRpb24gaXMgYSBuby1vcCBzaW5jZSBpdCAnYScgYWxyZWFkeSBleGlzdHMuDQoNCltN aWNoYWVsXSB3aHkgdGhlIHJlc3VsdCBpcyBub3QgZm9vID1bYSxhXT8gDQpXaHkgaW5pdGlhbCBm b289W2EsYl0gY2FuIG5vdCBiZSByZXBsYWNlZD8NCg0KDQovbWFydGluDQoNCl9fX19fX19fX19f X19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fDQpuZXRtb2QgbWFpbGluZyBsaXN0 DQpuZXRtb2RAaWV0Zi5vcmcNCmh0dHBzOi8vd3d3LmlldGYub3JnL21haWxtYW4vbGlzdGluZm8v bmV0bW9kDQo= From nobody Tue Nov 4 23:39:24 2014 Return-Path: X-Original-To: netmod@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: netmod@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id E6B351A6F0B for ; Tue, 4 Nov 2014 23:39:22 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.245 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.245 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, HELO_EQ_CZ=0.445, HOST_EQ_CZ=0.904, RP_MATCHES_RCVD=-0.594] autolearn=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id CL6lwlnb_w57 for ; Tue, 4 Nov 2014 23:39:21 -0800 (PST) Received: from mail.nic.cz (mail.nic.cz [IPv6:2001:1488:800:400::400]) (using TLSv1 with cipher ADH-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id DEF7A1A1B72 for ; Tue, 4 Nov 2014 23:39:20 -0800 (PST) Received: from [192.168.1.108] (unknown [195.113.220.254]) by mail.nic.cz (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 5441513FD8D; Wed, 5 Nov 2014 08:39:19 +0100 (CET) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=simple/simple; d=nic.cz; s=default; t=1415173159; bh=k+pKxw1ypXmF2U29n7QTKbrVywzTOtQ7EQFjAF/ABd0=; h=Content-Type:Mime-Version:Subject:From:In-Reply-To:Date:Cc: Content-Transfer-Encoding:Message-Id:References:To; b=QRcxJcJm7SiZVffFJHFeEy0LSrs3tjbF6q1HP2LO00zjPIHoPB2LxiXS/cerCQVG6 8m8JluMd8yccntBYl98zWYIeV0G/MjSJclKN0YIwcQOw13KtCm1wq4KfP3lOvUnI6z 69QDljt0gUmvu2IeDq+ziaRMglzj2kVzD5B6GDwQ= Content-Type: text/plain; charset=windows-1252 Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 7.3 \(1878.6\)) From: Ladislav Lhotka In-Reply-To: <5459055B.8050709@cisco.com> Date: Wed, 5 Nov 2014 08:39:23 +0100 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Message-Id: <0E81AE74-B24A-4DCC-B3E1-5E95BECBC849@nic.cz> References: <20141026152858.21687.9670.idtracker@ietfa.amsl.com> <5459055B.8050709@cisco.com> To: Benoit Claise X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.1878.6) X-Virus-Scanned: clamav-milter 0.98.1 at mail X-Virus-Status: Clean Archived-At: http://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/netmod/jsx6ksG2S2ljqFjm0E6FZv5w9_8 Cc: NETMOD Working Group , "rtg-ads@tools.ietf.org" Subject: Re: [netmod] Fwd: I-D Action: draft-ietf-netmod-routing-cfg-16.txt X-BeenThere: netmod@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: NETMOD WG list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 05 Nov 2014 07:39:23 -0000 Hi Benoit, Alia suggested to have a discussion in rtgwg led not only by me but also = by routing folks who have reviewed the draft. I am fine with that, and = Alvaro Retana promised to ask some of said folks to get in touch with = me, but I haven=92t heard from anybody yet. In any case, I am going to prepare a short presentation about the = routing module - I don=92t want to just recycle the one I have for = NETMOD because I think the focus have to be on general design and not on = YANG specifics. Cheers, Lada On 04 Nov 2014, at 17:56, Benoit Claise wrote: > Hi Lada, >=20 > Thanks for that. So you will be presenting this draft in NETMOD. > But also routing? Including the two routing ADs, just in case... >=20 > Regards, Benoit >> Hi, >>=20 >> this revision of the routing draft is a result of synchronisation = with the group of routing experts working on the OSPF and ISIS modules. >>=20 >> The sources for the draft, YANG modules and examples are available = from this GitHub repo: >>=20 >> https://github.com/yang-routing/yang-routing >>=20 >> Lada >>=20 >> Begin forwarded message: >>=20 >>> From: internet-drafts@ietf.org >>> Subject: [netmod] I-D Action: draft-ietf-netmod-routing-cfg-16.txt >>> Date: 26 Oct 2014 16:28:58 GMT+1 >>> To: i-d-announce@ietf.org >>> Cc: netmod@ietf.org >>>=20 >>>=20 >>> A New Internet-Draft is available from the on-line Internet-Drafts = directories. >>> This draft is a work item of the NETCONF Data Modeling Language = Working Group of the IETF. >>>=20 >>> Title : A YANG Data Model for Routing Management >>> Author : Ladislav Lhotka >>> Filename : draft-ietf-netmod-routing-cfg-16.txt >>> Pages : 88 >>> Date : 2014-10-26 >>>=20 >>> Abstract: >>> This document contains a specification of three YANG modules. >>> Together they form the core routing data model which serves as a >>> framework for configuring and managing a routing subsystem. It is >>> expected that these modules will be augmented by additional YANG >>> modules defining data models for routing protocols and other >>> functions. The core routing data model provides common building >>> blocks for such extensions - routing instances, routes, routing >>> information bases (RIB), routing protocols and route filters. >>>=20 >>>=20 >>> The IETF datatracker status page for this draft is: >>> https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-netmod-routing-cfg/ >>>=20 >>> There's also a htmlized version available at: >>> http://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-netmod-routing-cfg-16 >>>=20 >>> A diff from the previous version is available at: >>> http://www.ietf.org/rfcdiff?url2=3Ddraft-ietf-netmod-routing-cfg-16 >>>=20 >>>=20 >>> Please note that it may take a couple of minutes from the time of = submission >>> until the htmlized version and diff are available at tools.ietf.org. >>>=20 >>> Internet-Drafts are also available by anonymous FTP at: >>> ftp://ftp.ietf.org/internet-drafts/ >>>=20 >>> _______________________________________________ >>> netmod mailing list >>> netmod@ietf.org >>> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/netmod >> -- >> Ladislav Lhotka, CZ.NIC Labs >> PGP Key ID: E74E8C0C >>=20 >>=20 >>=20 >>=20 >> _______________________________________________ >> netmod mailing list >> netmod@ietf.org >> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/netmod >> . >>=20 >=20 -- Ladislav Lhotka, CZ.NIC Labs PGP Key ID: E74E8C0C From nobody Tue Nov 4 23:52:57 2014 Return-Path: X-Original-To: netmod@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: netmod@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id D9FC91A876C for ; Tue, 4 Nov 2014 23:52:54 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -15.095 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-15.095 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_HI=-5, RP_MATCHES_RCVD=-0.594, SPF_PASS=-0.001, USER_IN_DEF_DKIM_WL=-7.5] autolearn=ham Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 7DNiF8cRFdCi for ; Tue, 4 Nov 2014 23:52:53 -0800 (PST) Received: from aer-iport-1.cisco.com (aer-iport-1.cisco.com [173.38.203.51]) (using TLSv1 with cipher RC4-SHA (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 99F2D1A1F73 for ; Tue, 4 Nov 2014 23:52:52 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/simple; d=cisco.com; i=@cisco.com; l=3698; q=dns/txt; s=iport; t=1415173972; x=1416383572; h=message-id:date:from:mime-version:to:cc:subject: references:in-reply-to:content-transfer-encoding; bh=Qqq6MiSFwMHniiIFZnbcblExlMWHD8sgNWjy1mioI3Q=; b=aD96DUsQCbGFfSt8/fp6AgdjhFnyo+nh39JZ5SjvWlwDyS0eVgw0H4C2 Pc/mObj3yt977T+6Wf1QvKsFBkYuLQXsM8e0HCvBdtV6xxBRnJT7lvJt5 t/DeI4K7VEehX9vwY060CNuyakKeRMQCBDh3a7wTBOcsF6JRZa0jv81Bz o=; X-IronPort-Anti-Spam-Filtered: true X-IronPort-Anti-Spam-Result: AqwEAHTWWVStJssW/2dsb2JhbABbg2JUzmsKhnlUAoEqAQEBAQF9hAIBAQEEAQEBLwEFMwMKARALEQMBAgEJFg8JAwIBAgEVKAgGDQEFAgEBBYg4CAXHWQEBAQEBAQEBAQEBAQEBAQEBAQEBAReREAcGhEUFlnKHHIExPYMPgneOXoN5PC+CSwEBAQ X-IronPort-AV: E=Sophos;i="5.07,318,1413244800"; d="scan'208";a="236012549" Received: from aer-iport-nat.cisco.com (HELO aer-core-1.cisco.com) ([173.38.203.22]) by aer-iport-1.cisco.com with ESMTP; 05 Nov 2014 07:52:50 +0000 Received: from [10.60.67.84] (ams-bclaise-8913.cisco.com [10.60.67.84]) by aer-core-1.cisco.com (8.14.5/8.14.5) with ESMTP id sA57qoYg012521; Wed, 5 Nov 2014 07:52:50 GMT Message-ID: <5459D752.7000103@cisco.com> Date: Wed, 05 Nov 2014 08:52:50 +0100 From: Benoit Claise User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 6.1; WOW64; rv:24.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/24.7.0 MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Ladislav Lhotka References: <20141026152858.21687.9670.idtracker@ietfa.amsl.com> <5459055B.8050709@cisco.com> <0E81AE74-B24A-4DCC-B3E1-5E95BECBC849@nic.cz> In-Reply-To: <0E81AE74-B24A-4DCC-B3E1-5E95BECBC849@nic.cz> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=windows-1252; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Archived-At: http://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/netmod/AVKWY0zxUwa0LG51KyW8Jg6KIuY Cc: NETMOD Working Group , "rtg-ads@tools.ietf.org" Subject: Re: [netmod] Fwd: I-D Action: draft-ietf-netmod-routing-cfg-16.txt X-BeenThere: netmod@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: NETMOD WG list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 05 Nov 2014 07:52:55 -0000 Hi Lada, You're right. At this point in time, the backing from the routing experts is more important. Regards, Benoit > Hi Benoit, > > Alia suggested to have a discussion in rtgwg led not only by me but also by routing folks who have reviewed the draft. I am fine with that, and Alvaro Retana promised to ask some of said folks to get in touch with me, but I haven’t heard from anybody yet. > > In any case, I am going to prepare a short presentation about the routing module - I don’t want to just recycle the one I have for NETMOD because I think the focus have to be on general design and not on YANG specifics. > > Cheers, Lada > > On 04 Nov 2014, at 17:56, Benoit Claise wrote: > >> Hi Lada, >> >> Thanks for that. So you will be presenting this draft in NETMOD. >> But also routing? Including the two routing ADs, just in case... >> >> Regards, Benoit >>> Hi, >>> >>> this revision of the routing draft is a result of synchronisation with the group of routing experts working on the OSPF and ISIS modules. >>> >>> The sources for the draft, YANG modules and examples are available from this GitHub repo: >>> >>> https://github.com/yang-routing/yang-routing >>> >>> Lada >>> >>> Begin forwarded message: >>> >>>> From: internet-drafts@ietf.org >>>> Subject: [netmod] I-D Action: draft-ietf-netmod-routing-cfg-16.txt >>>> Date: 26 Oct 2014 16:28:58 GMT+1 >>>> To: i-d-announce@ietf.org >>>> Cc: netmod@ietf.org >>>> >>>> >>>> A New Internet-Draft is available from the on-line Internet-Drafts directories. >>>> This draft is a work item of the NETCONF Data Modeling Language Working Group of the IETF. >>>> >>>> Title : A YANG Data Model for Routing Management >>>> Author : Ladislav Lhotka >>>> Filename : draft-ietf-netmod-routing-cfg-16.txt >>>> Pages : 88 >>>> Date : 2014-10-26 >>>> >>>> Abstract: >>>> This document contains a specification of three YANG modules. >>>> Together they form the core routing data model which serves as a >>>> framework for configuring and managing a routing subsystem. It is >>>> expected that these modules will be augmented by additional YANG >>>> modules defining data models for routing protocols and other >>>> functions. The core routing data model provides common building >>>> blocks for such extensions - routing instances, routes, routing >>>> information bases (RIB), routing protocols and route filters. >>>> >>>> >>>> The IETF datatracker status page for this draft is: >>>> https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-netmod-routing-cfg/ >>>> >>>> There's also a htmlized version available at: >>>> http://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-netmod-routing-cfg-16 >>>> >>>> A diff from the previous version is available at: >>>> http://www.ietf.org/rfcdiff?url2=draft-ietf-netmod-routing-cfg-16 >>>> >>>> >>>> Please note that it may take a couple of minutes from the time of submission >>>> until the htmlized version and diff are available at tools.ietf.org. >>>> >>>> Internet-Drafts are also available by anonymous FTP at: >>>> ftp://ftp.ietf.org/internet-drafts/ >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> netmod mailing list >>>> netmod@ietf.org >>>> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/netmod >>> -- >>> Ladislav Lhotka, CZ.NIC Labs >>> PGP Key ID: E74E8C0C >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> netmod mailing list >>> netmod@ietf.org >>> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/netmod >>> . >>> > -- > Ladislav Lhotka, CZ.NIC Labs > PGP Key ID: E74E8C0C > > > > > . > From nobody Wed Nov 5 00:25:32 2014 Return-Path: X-Original-To: netmod@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: netmod@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 36B471A87EC for ; Wed, 5 Nov 2014 00:25:30 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -4.795 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-4.795 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-2.3, RP_MATCHES_RCVD=-0.594, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id mssXSa3V6otn for ; Wed, 5 Nov 2014 00:25:28 -0800 (PST) Received: from lhrrgout.huawei.com (lhrrgout.huawei.com [194.213.3.17]) (using TLSv1 with cipher RC4-SHA (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 346531A87E8 for ; Wed, 5 Nov 2014 00:25:28 -0800 (PST) Received: from 172.18.7.190 (EHLO lhreml403-hub.china.huawei.com) ([172.18.7.190]) by lhrrg02-dlp.huawei.com (MOS 4.3.7-GA FastPath queued) with ESMTP id BLH57824; Wed, 05 Nov 2014 08:25:26 +0000 (GMT) Received: from NKGEML403-HUB.china.huawei.com (10.98.56.34) by lhreml403-hub.china.huawei.com (10.201.5.217) with Microsoft SMTP Server (TLS) id 14.3.158.1; Wed, 5 Nov 2014 08:25:25 +0000 Received: from NKGEML501-MBS.china.huawei.com ([169.254.2.21]) by nkgeml403-hub.china.huawei.com ([10.98.56.34]) with mapi id 14.03.0158.001; Wed, 5 Nov 2014 16:25:19 +0800 From: Qin Wu To: "Eric Voit (evoit)" , Andy Bierman , "Ambika Prasad Tripathy (ambtripa)" Thread-Topic: [netmod] YANG model containing both device and domain config Thread-Index: AQHP9Nc2tEjARaD7QkOxXrpOP7hVwJxJxWoQ//99aACAAC6HAIAABL2AgAAGbgCAABq9AIAALocAgAGdxoCAAAslAIAAPU0AgAKK0GCAAGI9AIADF8zA Date: Wed, 5 Nov 2014 08:25:19 +0000 Message-ID: References: <3B675C3A8DF102408C754E30986E43CF05CE77E9@xmb-aln-x08.cisco.com> <3B675C3A8DF102408C754E30986E43CF05CE789B@xmb-aln-x08.cisco.com> <20141031101045.GA2139@elstar.local> <3B675C3A8DF102408C754E30986E43CF05CE78D5@xmb-aln-x08.cisco.com> <20141031120930.GA2576@elstar.local> <3B675C3A8DF102408C754E30986E43CF05CF43DC@xmb-aln-x08.cisco.com> In-Reply-To: Accept-Language: zh-CN, en-US Content-Language: zh-CN X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-originating-ip: [10.138.41.180] Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-CFilter-Loop: Reflected Archived-At: http://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/netmod/nbKJnPBJtDsiX_2czD30QR3krO0 Cc: "netmod@ietf.org" Subject: Re: [netmod] YANG model containing both device and domain config X-BeenThere: netmod@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: NETMOD WG list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 05 Nov 2014 08:25:30 -0000 PiBJdCBzZWVtcyBjb21wbGljYXRlIHRvIHJlbHkgb24gbWFudWFsIGNvbmZpZ3VyYXRpb24gb3Ig cHViL3N1YiANCj4gbWVjaGFuaXNtIHRvIHNlYXJjaCBhIHN1YnNldCBvZiBpbnRlcmVzdGVkIGRh dGEgbm9kZXMgaW4gdGhlIHJlbW90ZSANCj4gZGF0YXN0b3JlIG9mIGFsbCB0aGUgTkMgc2VydmVy cz8NCg0KSSBhZ3JlZSB0aGlzIGNhbm5vdCBiZSBtYW51YWwuICAgVGhlIHB1Yi9zdWIgaXRzZWxm IHdpbGwgYmUgZHJpdmVuIGF1dG9tYXRpY2FsbHkuICBUaGlzIGlzIGEgY29yZSBjYXBhYmlsaXR5 IG9mIE9wZW5EYXlsaWdodCB3aGljaCBOZXR3b3JrIEVsZW1lbnRzIGNhbiBhbHNvIGxldmVyYWdl IGluIGNlcnRhaW4gY2FzZXMuDQogDQpbUWluXTogSSBhbSBhIGxpdHRsZSBiaXQgY29uY2VybmVk IGFib3V0IHRoZSBwdWIvc3ViIGJlaW5nIGRyaXZlbiBhdXRvbWF0aWNhbGx5LiBJdCBzZWVtcyB5 b3UgaW1wbHkgTkMgc2VydmVyJ3Mgc3Vic2NyaXB0aW9ucyB0byByZW1vdGUgb2JqZWN0IHVwZGF0 ZXMgaW4gdGhlIGNvbnRyb2xsZXIgY2FuIGZ1cnRoZXINCnRyaWdnZXIgdGhpcyBjb250cm9sbGVy IHRvIHN1YnNjcmliZSB0byB0aGUgcmVtb3RlIG9iamVjdCB1cGRhdGVzIGluIGFsbCB0aGUgTkMg c2VydmVycz8gSG93IGRvZXMgdGhpcyBjb250cm9sbGVyIGtub3cgd2hpY2ggTkMgc2VydmVyIGhh cyBzdWJ0cmVlcyBvciBkYXRhIG5vZGVzIHRoZSBjb250cm9sbGVyIGlzIGludGVyZXN0ZWQgYmVm b3JlIHN1Yi9wdXNoPw0KT3IgeW91IGFzc3VtZSB0aGUgY29udHJvbGxlciBwb2xsIGZvciBhbGwg dGhlIE5DIHNlcnZlcnMgZm9yIGRpc2NvdmVyeT8NCg0KPiBJZiB5b3UgYXJlIHByb3Bvc2luZyBp bmNyZW1lbnRhbCB1cGRhdGUsIHdoeSBub3QgYXNrIGFwcGxpY2F0aW9uIA0KPiBzdWJzY3JpYmVy IHRvIGVhY2ggTkMgc2VydmVyL2RldmljZSBkaXJlY3RseT8gV2h5IGNvbXBsaWNhdGUgDQo+IGNv bnRyb2xsZXIgdG8gY2FjaGUgdXBkYXRlZCBkYXRhIHJldHJpZXZlZCBmcm9tIGVhY2ggcmVtb3Rl IGRhdGFzdG9yZSBpbiBhbGwgdGhlIE5DIHNldmVycz8NCg0KUGVyZm9ybWFuY2UgdGltZSBmb3Ig c29tZSBhcHBsaWNhdGlvbnMgZGVtYW5kcyBsb2NhbCBjYWNoaW5nLiAgSW4gYWRkaXRpb24sIDE6 TiBhbmQgZXZlbiB0d28gdGllcmVkIGRpc3RyaWJ1dGlvbiBvZiBQZWVyIE1vdW50IHVwZGF0ZXMg d2lsbCByZWR1Y2Ugc2NhbGluZyByZXF1aXJlbWVudHMgZm9yIHRoZSBBdXRob3JpdGF0aXZlIGRh dGEgc291cmNlLg0KDQpbUWluXTogQWdhaW4sIEkgaGF2ZSBjb25jZXJuIGFib3V0IHR3byB0aWVy ZWQgZGlzdHJpYnV0aW9uIG9mIFBlZXIgTW91bnQsIGhvdyBkb2VzIHRoZSBOQyBzZXJ2ZXIga25v d3Mgd2hpY2ggY29udHJvbGxlciBjYW4gcHJvdmlkZSBpdHMgaW50ZXJlc3RlZCBkYXRhIGJlZm9y ZSBzdWJzY3JpcHRpb24/IEhvdyBkb2VzIHRoZSBjb250cm9sbGVyIGtub3dzIFdoaWNoIE5DIHNl cnZlciBjYW4gcHJvdmlkZSBpdHMgaW50ZXJlc3RlZCBkYXRhIGJlZm9yZSBzdWJzY3JpcHRpb24u IEJsaW5kIHN1YnNjcmlwdGlvbiBzZWVtcyB0aW1lIHdhc3Rpbmcgb3Igbm90IGVmZmljaWVudC4N Cg0KRXJpYyANCg== From nobody Wed Nov 5 00:40:29 2014 Return-Path: X-Original-To: netmod@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: netmod@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 92E1B1A87EB for ; 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Wed, 5 Nov 2014 09:40:15 +0100 (CET) From: Ladislav Lhotka To: Andy Bierman , Benoit Claise In-Reply-To: References: <79054E89-2D09-4461-8D35-8F6FA025B71F@nic.cz> <43060BE7-53EA-4B9D-B778-2FED58C0D60C@lucidvision.com> <52AE09CB-D4AB-4421-BBA4-1D9C45EA6957@gmail.com> <54590195.3010903@cisco.com> <54595361.5000907@cisco.com> <545965FA.2050308@cisco.com> User-Agent: Notmuch/0.18.1 (http://notmuchmail.org) Emacs/24.4.1 (x86_64-apple-darwin13.4.0) Date: Wed, 05 Nov 2014 09:40:19 +0100 Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Archived-At: http://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/netmod/UiquGvINxNA99HnFvseRbzJcHUI Cc: "netmod@ietf.org" , "rtg-ads@tools.ietf.org" Subject: Re: [netmod] IETF91 NETMOD agenda ? X-BeenThere: netmod@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: NETMOD WG list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 05 Nov 2014 08:40:26 -0000 Hi, I agree with Andy. I think we already have a LOT to do with the existing WG items, and YANG 1.1 in particular, and we should devote most of the WG meeting time to them. Offloading this work to interim telcos is IMO not good. In my view, authors of new YANG modules face three challenges: 1. Organize a group of domain experts to work on the substance of the module (scope, configuration logic, dealing with the legacy of existing CLIs etc.). 2. Get advice about YANG-related aspects. 3. Find a home for the module so that it can eventually become an RFC. For the most part, #1 and #3 should be done outside NETMOD in an appropriate IETF area. It involves convincing domain experts that the work is worth doing in the first place, and then find enough support and capacity to carry it out. But this is I guess IETF business as usual. NETMOD WG cannot act as a shortcut for this hard part. And judging from the recently announced guidelines, I think the routing area got it pretty much right. There might be modules that need to be done in the NETMOD WG, e.g. if they span multiple areas, but they should be an exception. As for #2, I think it is a task for YANG doctors. In this case, I'd be willing to accept stricter rules and more deterministic workflow so that module autors receive feedback in a timely manner. Lada Andy Bierman writes: >> > > It is not NIMBY. The YANG experts are not all SYSLOG experts. > Getting the right people in the room is important (you said that ;-) > Making a few SYSLOG experts sit through 140 minutes of > unrelated material may not be the best option for them either. > > It is unfortunate that the SYSLOG WG has decided the protocol > is complete and no further work is needed. I don't agree IETF > process should be a good reason to choose NETMOD WG. > This draft is already chartered and I am not trying to stop > the SYSLOG work. I don't want it to start a trend though. > -- Ladislav Lhotka, CZ.NIC Labs PGP Key ID: E74E8C0C From nobody Wed Nov 5 00:46:34 2014 Return-Path: X-Original-To: netmod@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: netmod@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id A5A2A1A87F1 for ; Wed, 5 Nov 2014 00:46:29 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.144 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.144 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, HELO_EQ_DE=0.35, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, RP_MATCHES_RCVD=-0.594] autolearn=ham Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id DQU2NAeQy6RK for ; Wed, 5 Nov 2014 00:46:27 -0800 (PST) Received: from atlas3.jacobs-university.de (atlas3.jacobs-university.de [212.201.44.18]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher AECDH-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 6C8901A87F0 for ; Wed, 5 Nov 2014 00:46:27 -0800 (PST) Received: from localhost (demetrius5.irc-it.jacobs-university.de [10.70.0.222]) by atlas3.jacobs-university.de (Postfix) with ESMTP id E69DD1007; Wed, 5 Nov 2014 09:46:25 +0100 (CET) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at jacobs-university.de Received: from atlas3.jacobs-university.de ([10.70.0.220]) by localhost (demetrius5.jacobs-university.de [10.70.0.222]) (amavisd-new, port 10030) with ESMTP id 0dozkqDFW8dG; Wed, 5 Nov 2014 09:46:12 +0100 (CET) Received: from hermes.jacobs-university.de (hermes.jacobs-university.de [212.201.44.23]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (Client CN "hermes.jacobs-university.de", Issuer "Jacobs University CA - G01" (verified OK)) by atlas3.jacobs-university.de (Postfix) with ESMTPS; Wed, 5 Nov 2014 09:46:25 +0100 (CET) Received: from localhost (demetrius3.jacobs-university.de [212.201.44.48]) by hermes.jacobs-university.de (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5306B20038; Wed, 5 Nov 2014 09:46:25 +0100 (CET) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at jacobs-university.de Received: from hermes.jacobs-university.de ([212.201.44.23]) by localhost (demetrius3.jacobs-university.de [212.201.44.32]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id De41zJGiSg5l; Wed, 5 Nov 2014 09:46:24 +0100 (CET) Received: from elstar.local (elstar.jacobs.jacobs-university.de [10.50.231.133]) by hermes.jacobs-university.de (Postfix) with ESMTP id 27EC220035; Wed, 5 Nov 2014 09:46:24 +0100 (CET) Received: by elstar.local (Postfix, from userid 501) id 7872E2F445C0; Wed, 5 Nov 2014 09:46:23 +0100 (CET) Date: Wed, 5 Nov 2014 09:46:23 +0100 From: Juergen Schoenwaelder To: Ladislav Lhotka Message-ID: <20141105084622.GA22192@elstar.local> Mail-Followup-To: Ladislav Lhotka , Benoit Claise , NETMOD Working Group , "rtg-ads@tools.ietf.org" References: <20141026152858.21687.9670.idtracker@ietfa.amsl.com> <5459055B.8050709@cisco.com> <0E81AE74-B24A-4DCC-B3E1-5E95BECBC849@nic.cz> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit In-Reply-To: <0E81AE74-B24A-4DCC-B3E1-5E95BECBC849@nic.cz> User-Agent: Mutt/1.4.2.3i Archived-At: http://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/netmod/kbuJWx0XNW10lu0egvqCeF3vPc4 Cc: NETMOD Working Group , "rtg-ads@tools.ietf.org" Subject: Re: [netmod] Fwd: I-D Action: draft-ietf-netmod-routing-cfg-16.txt X-BeenThere: netmod@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list Reply-To: Juergen Schoenwaelder List-Id: NETMOD WG list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 05 Nov 2014 08:46:29 -0000 On Wed, Nov 05, 2014 at 08:39:23AM +0100, Ladislav Lhotka wrote: > > In any case, I am going to prepare a short presentation about the routing module - I don’t want to just recycle the one I have for NETMOD because I think the focus have to be on general design and not on YANG specifics. > Lada, what I like to get out of the meeting is a concrete list of issues people still have with building concrete data models based on the core routing model. If no concrete issues are left, we should do another WG last call and send the document back to the IESG. In other words, I expect that routing people writing BGP, OSPF, ... data models will actually drive the discussion by telling us what they believe is still missing or not workable. /js -- Juergen Schoenwaelder Jacobs University Bremen gGmbH Phone: +49 421 200 3587 Campus Ring 1, 28759 Bremen, Germany Fax: +49 421 200 3103 From nobody Wed Nov 5 01:01:33 2014 Return-Path: X-Original-To: netmod@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: netmod@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 80E091A87F0 for ; Wed, 5 Nov 2014 01:01:32 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -0.945 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-0.945 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, HELO_EQ_CZ=0.445, HOST_EQ_CZ=0.904, MIME_8BIT_HEADER=0.3, RP_MATCHES_RCVD=-0.594] autolearn=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 7kzOwYmJYNzW for ; Wed, 5 Nov 2014 01:01:31 -0800 (PST) Received: from mail.nic.cz (mail.nic.cz [IPv6:2001:1488:800:400::400]) (using TLSv1 with cipher ADH-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 0ECD31A882B for ; Wed, 5 Nov 2014 01:01:30 -0800 (PST) Received: from [192.168.1.108] (unknown [195.113.220.254]) by mail.nic.cz (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 8A2DD13FD8D; Wed, 5 Nov 2014 10:01:28 +0100 (CET) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=simple/simple; d=nic.cz; s=default; t=1415178088; bh=vsdZxrcx4bf6VoZVt6m2zIwI15fimBkZvN0wenJLrWM=; h=Content-Type:Mime-Version:Subject:From:In-Reply-To:Date:Cc: Content-Transfer-Encoding:Message-Id:References:To; b=FdhAbb84XdqMr+yDUQDipU0XPcUM+5kAbSQy1yIPdQSzn/P/FHRHUDsiQ52KpFNgE 6fAjpIQGVjqHXghXSe5CWKGWhUZfCxAfItQDe3hkbvmSa1hjkWfPXmpFir1VUPCgJO V9xCSc0GkEltE4kVH4mFuBeTZuMo1woizkizHsQI= Content-Type: text/plain; charset=windows-1252 Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 7.3 \(1878.6\)) From: Ladislav Lhotka In-Reply-To: <20141105084622.GA22192@elstar.local> Date: Wed, 5 Nov 2014 10:01:32 +0100 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Message-Id: <926BF7D3-D114-4A87-B54A-9B414C28F664@nic.cz> References: <20141026152858.21687.9670.idtracker@ietfa.amsl.com> <5459055B.8050709@cisco.com> <0E81AE74-B24A-4DCC-B3E1-5E95BECBC849@nic.cz> <20141105084622.GA22192@elstar.local> To: =?windows-1252?Q?J=FCrgen_Sch=F6nw=E4lder?= X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.1878.6) X-Virus-Scanned: clamav-milter 0.98.1 at mail X-Virus-Status: Clean Archived-At: http://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/netmod/mMt8GbxTVJCE3zYUZ31DXn2zJR8 Cc: NETMOD Working Group , "rtg-ads@tools.ietf.org" Subject: Re: [netmod] Fwd: I-D Action: draft-ietf-netmod-routing-cfg-16.txt X-BeenThere: netmod@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: NETMOD WG list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 05 Nov 2014 09:01:32 -0000 On 05 Nov 2014, at 09:46, Juergen Schoenwaelder = wrote: > On Wed, Nov 05, 2014 at 08:39:23AM +0100, Ladislav Lhotka wrote: >>=20 >> In any case, I am going to prepare a short presentation about the = routing module - I don=92t want to just recycle the one I have for = NETMOD because I think the focus have to be on general design and not on = YANG specifics. >>=20 >=20 > Lada, >=20 > what I like to get out of the meeting is a concrete list of issues > people still have with building concrete data models based on the core > routing model. If no concrete issues are left, we should do another WG > last call and send the document back to the IESG. In other words, I > expect that routing people writing BGP, OSPF, ... data models will > actually drive the discussion by telling us what they believe is still > missing or not workable. Yes, I have similar expectations. I can perhaps contribute my = impressions from looking over the shoulders of the routing people, and = also try to explain the design choices. Lada >=20 > /js >=20 > --=20 > Juergen Schoenwaelder Jacobs University Bremen gGmbH > Phone: +49 421 200 3587 Campus Ring 1, 28759 Bremen, Germany > Fax: +49 421 200 3103 -- Ladislav Lhotka, CZ.NIC Labs PGP Key ID: E74E8C0C From nobody Wed Nov 5 01:53:25 2014 Return-Path: X-Original-To: netmod@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: netmod@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2A5201A883C for ; Wed, 5 Nov 2014 01:53:23 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.144 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.144 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, HELO_EQ_DE=0.35, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, RP_MATCHES_RCVD=-0.594] autolearn=ham Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id DMvKb3gW5BM1 for ; Wed, 5 Nov 2014 01:53:21 -0800 (PST) Received: from atlas3.jacobs-university.de (atlas3.jacobs-university.de [212.201.44.18]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher AECDH-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id C29781A002F for ; Wed, 5 Nov 2014 01:53:20 -0800 (PST) Received: from localhost (demetrius5.irc-it.jacobs-university.de [10.70.0.222]) by atlas3.jacobs-university.de (Postfix) with ESMTP id 706BC74E; Wed, 5 Nov 2014 10:53:19 +0100 (CET) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at jacobs-university.de Received: from atlas3.jacobs-university.de ([10.70.0.220]) by localhost (demetrius5.jacobs-university.de [10.70.0.222]) (amavisd-new, port 10030) with ESMTP id 98A7q98oECjZ; Wed, 5 Nov 2014 10:53:05 +0100 (CET) Received: from hermes.jacobs-university.de (hermes.jacobs-university.de [212.201.44.23]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (Client CN "hermes.jacobs-university.de", Issuer "Jacobs University CA - G01" (verified OK)) by atlas3.jacobs-university.de (Postfix) with ESMTPS; Wed, 5 Nov 2014 10:53:18 +0100 (CET) Received: from localhost (demetrius2.jacobs-university.de [212.201.44.47]) by hermes.jacobs-university.de (Postfix) with ESMTP id BDCE520038; Wed, 5 Nov 2014 10:53:18 +0100 (CET) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at jacobs-university.de Received: from hermes.jacobs-university.de ([212.201.44.23]) by localhost (demetrius2.jacobs-university.de [212.201.44.32]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id uBfzXbuui7Zf; Wed, 5 Nov 2014 10:51:57 +0100 (CET) Received: from elstar.local (elstar.jacobs.jacobs-university.de [10.50.231.133]) by hermes.jacobs-university.de (Postfix) with ESMTP id BB59920035; Wed, 5 Nov 2014 10:53:17 +0100 (CET) Received: by elstar.local (Postfix, from userid 501) id 943082F448A2; Wed, 5 Nov 2014 10:53:16 +0100 (CET) Date: Wed, 5 Nov 2014 10:53:15 +0100 From: Juergen Schoenwaelder To: Ladislav Lhotka Message-ID: <20141105095315.GA22664@elstar.local> Mail-Followup-To: Ladislav Lhotka , Benoit Claise , NETMOD Working Group , "rtg-ads@tools.ietf.org" References: <20141026152858.21687.9670.idtracker@ietfa.amsl.com> <5459055B.8050709@cisco.com> <0E81AE74-B24A-4DCC-B3E1-5E95BECBC849@nic.cz> <20141105084622.GA22192@elstar.local> <926BF7D3-D114-4A87-B54A-9B414C28F664@nic.cz> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit In-Reply-To: <926BF7D3-D114-4A87-B54A-9B414C28F664@nic.cz> User-Agent: Mutt/1.4.2.3i Archived-At: http://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/netmod/VmszWAAKHCLKA9VK9NpcOyx-k5E Cc: NETMOD Working Group , "rtg-ads@tools.ietf.org" Subject: Re: [netmod] Fwd: I-D Action: draft-ietf-netmod-routing-cfg-16.txt X-BeenThere: netmod@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list Reply-To: Juergen Schoenwaelder List-Id: NETMOD WG list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 05 Nov 2014 09:53:23 -0000 On Wed, Nov 05, 2014 at 10:01:32AM +0100, Ladislav Lhotka wrote: > > On 05 Nov 2014, at 09:46, Juergen Schoenwaelder wrote: > > > On Wed, Nov 05, 2014 at 08:39:23AM +0100, Ladislav Lhotka wrote: > >> > >> In any case, I am going to prepare a short presentation about the routing module - I don’t want to just recycle the one I have for NETMOD because I think the focus have to be on general design and not on YANG specifics. > >> > > > > Lada, > > > > what I like to get out of the meeting is a concrete list of issues > > people still have with building concrete data models based on the core > > routing model. If no concrete issues are left, we should do another WG > > last call and send the document back to the IESG. In other words, I > > expect that routing people writing BGP, OSPF, ... data models will > > actually drive the discussion by telling us what they believe is still > > missing or not workable. > > Yes, I have similar expectations. I can perhaps contribute my impressions from looking over the shoulders of the routing people, and also try to explain the design choices. > My understanding is that the routing discussion is Tuesday 13:00 HST and ideally there would be results coming out of this meeting to quickly report to the NETMOD WG at large. /js -- Juergen Schoenwaelder Jacobs University Bremen gGmbH Phone: +49 421 200 3587 Campus Ring 1, 28759 Bremen, Germany Fax: +49 421 200 3103 From nobody Wed Nov 5 03:07:38 2014 Return-Path: X-Original-To: netmod@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: netmod@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5B0E21A1B3C for ; Wed, 5 Nov 2014 03:07:37 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -4.201 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-4.201 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-2.3, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id sfEcfs59OL7b for ; Wed, 5 Nov 2014 03:07:32 -0800 (PST) Received: from sesbmg22.ericsson.net (sesbmg22.ericsson.net [193.180.251.48]) (using TLSv1 with cipher DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 0D1691A0043 for ; Wed, 5 Nov 2014 03:07:31 -0800 (PST) X-AuditID: c1b4fb30-f79e66d000000ff1-70-545a04f1d449 Received: from ESESSHC017.ericsson.se (Unknown_Domain [153.88.253.124]) by sesbmg22.ericsson.net (Symantec Mail Security) with SMTP id 96.73.04081.1F40A545; Wed, 5 Nov 2014 12:07:30 +0100 (CET) Received: from [159.107.197.98] (153.88.183.153) by smtp.internal.ericsson.com (153.88.183.71) with Microsoft SMTP Server id 14.3.174.1; Wed, 5 Nov 2014 12:07:29 +0100 Message-ID: <545A04F0.8010005@ericsson.com> Date: Wed, 5 Nov 2014 12:07:28 +0100 From: Balazs Lengyel User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 6.1; WOW64; rv:24.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/24.6.0 MIME-Version: 1.0 To: "netmod@ietf.org" Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="------------040408080904070509060202" X-Brightmail-Tracker: H4sIAAAAAAAAA+NgFprFLMWRmVeSWpSXmKPExsUyM+Jvje4nlqgQg23n2S3mX2xkdWD0WLLk J1MAYxSXTUpqTmZZapG+XQJXxrzWD4wFH2Mq7rdKNDDede1i5OSQEDCROHTrCTOELSZx4d56 NhBbSOAIo8SqFo4uRi4gezWjxIKte8ASvALaEhOfzGIFsVkEVCTam/czgdhsAkYSU/vPs4DY ogJREncu9bNC1AtKnJz5BCwuIqAuMXMnxAJhARmJS+vfgdUwCwRIzG7YxwKxWEPi4YW/rBMY eWchaZ+FpAzCtpW4MOc6lC0vsf3tHGYIO0ri+vOn7Jji3hL9DfdYFzCyr2IULU4tTspNNzLS Sy3KTC4uzs/Ty0st2cQIDMyDW34b7GB8+dzxEKMAB6MSD++GSZEhQqyJZcWVuYcYpTlYlMR5 F56bFywkkJ5YkpqdmlqQWhRfVJqTWnyIkYmDU6qBka/X+37a7yJFLZOgn1EfbaMZq+5uvFxd VHwqb0/ekx5TNsWus7n11q8bt9VsSzJb/lwqVoRD+JxvYKy2ZMMquXjHrGO7V/jKG6jkXjVe r7T70q6UIt0QDb4dxf5ia6wE71q4LdSK/N0mF871ZNnXwq2xr5ea+SnPUnv2dKulXpb3rfmz bNSVWIozEg21mIuKEwG1htnALQIAAA== Archived-At: http://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/netmod/WIdlio61fUYpl5ykZAXLpqOZ2aY Subject: [netmod] NonUnique leaf-list X-BeenThere: netmod@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: NETMOD WG list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 05 Nov 2014 11:07:37 -0000 --------------040408080904070509060202 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1"; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hello, As decided in one of the interim meetings here is my proposal for nonUnique leaf-lists in YANG 1.1. I included a brief overview and the list of changes needed for the draft as well. regards Balazs -- Balazs Lengyel Ericsson Hungary Ltd. Senior Specialist ECN: 831 7320 Tel: +36-1-437-7320 Mobile: +36-70-330-7909 email: Balazs.Lengyel@ericsson.com --------------040408080904070509060202 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="windows-1252"; name="nonUniqueleafListproposal-5.txt" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: attachment; filename="nonUniqueleafListproposal-5.txt" Date: 2014-11-04 rev 5 Balazs Lengyel NonUnique leaf-list ######################################################################## Summary: By introducing the unique-leaf-list true/false; statement it is allowed for leaf-lists to have multiple leafs with the same value. The default behavior is that a leaf-list MUST have unique leafs which is fully compatible with the YANG 1.0. There are use cases for all four variants of a leaf-list unique system-ordered: SCTP endpoint addresses unique user-ordered: list of authentication mechanism to use: radius, ldap, local non-unique system-ordered: unknown but it was indicated that some users need it non-unique user-ordered: list of AS-Paths, list of queueing weights in a scheduler When a leaf in a leaf-list is addressed (by value as in YANG 1.0), if the value is present multiple times in the leaf-list, it is not trivial what is addressed, one specific leaf (which one?) or all the leafs with the specified value. For simplicity addressing by value will point at the first leaf with the specified value. To make handling the individual leafs easier addressing by position is also introduced for leaf-lists. Addressing by position is only allowed for user-ordered leaf-lists as the order in a system-ordered leaf-list might change. In unordered/system-ordered lists addressing by value is sufficient as the different leafs with the same value should be equivalent. Any case when addressing by value and addressing by position conflicts is considered an error. Some variants of the operation will have a changed behavior. - create will always succeed for a non-unique leaf-list even if the specified value already exists: in this case it does not mean recreating an existing value, it rather means creating one more leaf (instance) with the same value. - replace by position will allow changing the value at a specific position from x to y. Some restrictions are imposed on the allowed operations, as some variants can become too complicated both for humans to understand and implementers to implement, and there is no reasonable use case that needs them. (e.g. addressing some leafs by value and some by position in the same edit-config, creating, deleting, replacing and merging leafs with the same value in a single edit-config operation) ######################################################################## Needed changes to the RFC: --- Change to chapter 3: leaf-list: Like the leaf node but defines a set of uniquely identifiable nodes rather than a single node. Each node has a value but no child nodes. change to leaf-list: Like the leaf node but defines a set of nodes rather than a single node. Each node has a value but no child nodes. --- Change to chapter 4.2.2.2: A leaf-list is a sequence of leaf nodes with exactly one value of a particular type per leaf. What does this mean? Does it mean that leaf-lists need to have unique leafs? Change to: A leaf-list is a sequence of leaf nodes. --- Change to chapter 7.7 The values in a leaf-list MUST be unique. Change to: The values in a leaf-list MAY be repeated or MUST be unique depending on the unique-leaf-list (see Section xxx). --- Change to chapter 7.7.2 Add: unique-leaf-list cardinality 0..1 --- Add a level 3 chapter before 7.7.6 7.7.5b The unique-leaf-list Statement The "unique-leaf-list" statement takes as an argument the string "true" or "false". If "unique-leaf-list" is "true", values within the leaf-lists must be unique. If "unique-leaf-list" is "false", values within the leaf-lists may be repeated. If "unique-leaf-list" is not specified, the default is true. --- Change chapter 7.7.7 Change to: Leaf-lists entries are handled as individual items by the operation. They can be created, deleted, and in some cases moved or replaced depending on the "operation", "insert", "value" and "position" attributes in the operation, and the "unique-leaf-list" statement. An individual leaf to be handled by the operation can be selected either based on its value or on it's position in the leaf-list. When selected by value it is the first leaf with the specific value that will be handled, even if the value exists in the leaf-list multiple times. Selecting by position is only allowed in an "ordered-by user" leaf-list. Position must be between 1 and the length of the leaf-list, if it is not, it is an error. Selecting leafs within one specific leaf-list in one edit-config operation can be done either by value or by position, but using both selection by value and selection by position for the same leaf-list is an error. ---Note: Actualy I would allow selection by position for system-ordered leaf-lists as well. Often the system produces a well defined and stable order, so position is usable. We should not explicitly forbid it, just state that as the order MIGHT not be stable or predictable, results are implementation specific. It is possible to handle multiple leafs with the same or different value in the same request, the entries are handled one at the time, in the order of the XML elements in the request. In order to simplify handling, when an edit-config operation - modifies a leaf-list with unique-leaf-list false and - selection by value is used and - the operation modifies multiple leafs from the leaf-list and - multiple such leafs in the operation have the same value the following rules apply: - all leafs MUST have the same effective operation attribute, e.g. having create on some of them and merge on others is an error. - the first leaf of a specific value will select the the first leaf with the same value in the datastore, the second leaf will select the second leaf from the datastore (if it exists) and so on. Which leafs are selected MUST be calculated before any modification to the leaf-list in the datastore. ---Note: We need the above special rule, to support the use cases of simple additive merge and replacing many leafs. Other extreme complicated use cases are disallowed. When a NETCONF server processes an request, the elements of procedure for a leaf-list node are: If the operation is "remove", the entry is deleted from the leaf- list if it exists. If the operation is "delete", the entry is deleted from the leaf- list if it exists. If the leaf-list entry does not exist, a "data-missing" error is returned. If the operation is "create", and the leaf-list is a unique-leaf-list and the entry does not yet exists, it is created as specified by the insert, value and position attributes. If the entry already exists an error is returned. If the operation is "create", and the leaf-list is not a unique-leaf-list the entry is created even if a leaf with the same value already exists. The create operation means adding one more leaf with the same value. In an "ordered-by user" leaf-list, the attributes "position", "insert" and "value" in the YANG XML namespace (Section 5.3.1) can be used to control where in the leaf-list the entry is inserted. These can be used during "create" operations to insert a new leaf-list entry, or during "merge" or "replace" operations to insert a new leaf-list entry or to move or replace an existing one. The "insert" attribute can take the values "first", "last", "before", and "after". If the value is "before" or "after", exactly one of the "value" or the "position" attributes MUST also be used to specify an existing entry in the leaf- list. If the value is "first" or "last", neither the "position" nor the "value" attribute is allowed. If the "position" attribute is specified, but "insert" is not, "insert" defaults to the value "after". If no "insert" or "position" attributes are present in the "create", "replace" or "merge" operations, it defaults to "insert=last". If the operation is "replace" or "merge", and the position attribute is used replace the value specified by position. If both position and insert=after/before is specified, insert a new leaf with the value at the specified position. For unique-leaf-lists an operation MUST NOT result in two leafs with the same value. If the operation is "replace" or "merge", and the position attribute is not used delete the first leaf with the specified value if it exist, and create it as specified by insert/value attributes. If the edit-config operation modifies multiple leafs with the same value, the special rules described above apply. In an with a "replace", or a a operation that covers the entire leaf-list, the leaf-list order is the same as the order of the XML elements in the request. Usage example for position: Ethernet0/0 1500
192.0.2.4 24
-- change 9.13 TBD -- change 11.1 Add: | unique-leaf-list | value | false | -- change 12 TBD Add the unique-leaf-list statement -- change 13.1 Modify so it applies to leaf-lists as well. ---Note: This is an error correction, independent of the introduction of nonUnique leaf-lists -- change 13.8 Modify to cover the position attribute -- change 13.x Add new chapters for the following errors - not allowed combinations of value, insert and position - position value out of range - mixed usage of selection by value and position for leaf-lists - mixed usage of the operation parameter for a nonUnique leaf-list when addressing by value --------------040408080904070509060202-- From nobody Wed Nov 5 03:18:58 2014 Return-Path: X-Original-To: netmod@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: netmod@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id D279A1A885D for ; Wed, 5 Nov 2014 03:18:55 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -0.945 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-0.945 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, HELO_EQ_CZ=0.445, HOST_EQ_CZ=0.904, MIME_8BIT_HEADER=0.3, RP_MATCHES_RCVD=-0.594] autolearn=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id MXgX7rrWhkSU for ; Wed, 5 Nov 2014 03:18:53 -0800 (PST) Received: from mail.nic.cz (mail.nic.cz [IPv6:2001:1488:800:400::400]) (using TLSv1 with cipher ADH-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 18CCA1A8862 for ; Wed, 5 Nov 2014 03:18:52 -0800 (PST) Received: from [192.168.1.108] (unknown [195.113.220.254]) by mail.nic.cz (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 4847F13F6B3; Wed, 5 Nov 2014 12:18:50 +0100 (CET) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=simple/simple; d=nic.cz; s=default; t=1415186330; bh=RIsNbq4Fd2za0lOWAo5Tdrzmo5kvzLsHalD0m/ERHcg=; h=Content-Type:Mime-Version:Subject:From:In-Reply-To:Date:Cc: Content-Transfer-Encoding:Message-Id:References:To; b=wNm1/gzsU8VKWJ94SGb8/DUxlh9fPlmLCrfj8Y5qVla4ZMF13+X8efdb2RPli/N0j Qlj6hBlnC+hYPpgW+dyi5GB7/Z8Dneax6KShqwESulqMwPXg/USdzCOAKemRLQrtXi f7mOMW1fTWekLtCggm1cU3KX2Jd9CalFAJlIMkhg= Content-Type: text/plain; charset=windows-1252 Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 7.3 \(1878.6\)) From: Ladislav Lhotka In-Reply-To: <20141105095315.GA22664@elstar.local> Date: Wed, 5 Nov 2014 12:18:49 +0100 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Message-Id: <7ABC0821-499A-44A1-806A-506EFC516164@nic.cz> References: <20141026152858.21687.9670.idtracker@ietfa.amsl.com> <5459055B.8050709@cisco.com> <0E81AE74-B24A-4DCC-B3E1-5E95BECBC849@nic.cz> <20141105084622.GA22192@elstar.local> <926BF7D3-D114-4A87-B54A-9B414C28F664@nic.cz> <20141105095315.GA22664@elstar.local> To: =?windows-1252?Q?J=FCrgen_Sch=F6nw=E4lder?= X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.1878.6) X-Virus-Scanned: clamav-milter 0.98.1 at mail X-Virus-Status: Clean Archived-At: http://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/netmod/RoR8jVEjM_vZVnczYNBVI2L7flY Cc: NETMOD Working Group , "rtg-ads@tools.ietf.org" Subject: Re: [netmod] Fwd: I-D Action: draft-ietf-netmod-routing-cfg-16.txt X-BeenThere: netmod@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: NETMOD WG list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 05 Nov 2014 11:18:56 -0000 On 05 Nov 2014, at 10:53, Juergen Schoenwaelder = wrote: > On Wed, Nov 05, 2014 at 10:01:32AM +0100, Ladislav Lhotka wrote: >>=20 >> On 05 Nov 2014, at 09:46, Juergen Schoenwaelder = wrote: >>=20 >>> On Wed, Nov 05, 2014 at 08:39:23AM +0100, Ladislav Lhotka wrote: >>>>=20 >>>> In any case, I am going to prepare a short presentation about the = routing module - I don=92t want to just recycle the one I have for = NETMOD because I think the focus have to be on general design and not on = YANG specifics. >>>>=20 >>>=20 >>> Lada, >>>=20 >>> what I like to get out of the meeting is a concrete list of issues >>> people still have with building concrete data models based on the = core >>> routing model. If no concrete issues are left, we should do another = WG >>> last call and send the document back to the IESG. In other words, I >>> expect that routing people writing BGP, OSPF, ... data models will >>> actually drive the discussion by telling us what they believe is = still >>> missing or not workable. >>=20 >> Yes, I have similar expectations. I can perhaps contribute my = impressions from looking over the shoulders of the routing people, and = also try to explain the design choices. >>=20 >=20 > My understanding is that the routing discussion is Tuesday 13:00 HST > and ideally there would be results coming out of this meeting to > quickly report to the NETMOD WG at large. No, it is on the agenda of rtgwg on Wednesday, 9:00: https://datatracker.ietf.org/meeting/91/agenda/rtgwg/ I will report on the outstanding issues at the NETMOD meeting on = Thursday. Lada >=20 > /js >=20 > --=20 > Juergen Schoenwaelder Jacobs University Bremen gGmbH > Phone: +49 421 200 3587 Campus Ring 1, 28759 Bremen, Germany > Fax: +49 421 200 3103 -- Ladislav Lhotka, CZ.NIC Labs PGP Key ID: E74E8C0C From nobody Wed Nov 5 03:21:00 2014 Return-Path: X-Original-To: netmod@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: netmod@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 340911A885D for ; Wed, 5 Nov 2014 03:20:54 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: 1.179 X-Spam-Level: * X-Spam-Status: No, score=1.179 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_50=0.8, CN_BODY_35=0.339, GB_I_LETTER=-2, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, HTML_TAG_BALANCE_BODY=1.157, MIME_CHARSET_FARAWAY=2.45, MIME_HTML_ONLY=0.723, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-2.3, SPF_PASS=-0.001, T_HTML_ATTACH=0.01] autolearn=ham Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id cBU5roPNPcsp for ; Wed, 5 Nov 2014 03:20:37 -0800 (PST) Received: from sesbmg22.ericsson.net (sesbmg22.ericsson.net [193.180.251.48]) (using TLSv1 with cipher DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id C6B3D1A886E for ; Wed, 5 Nov 2014 03:20:34 -0800 (PST) X-AuditID: c1b4fb30-f79e66d000000ff1-13-545a08002dfe Received: from ESESSHC016.ericsson.se (Unknown_Domain [153.88.253.124]) by sesbmg22.ericsson.net (Symantec Mail Security) with SMTP id EA.85.04081.0080A545; Wed, 5 Nov 2014 12:20:32 +0100 (CET) Received: from [159.107.197.98] (153.88.183.153) by smtp.internal.ericsson.com (153.88.183.68) with Microsoft SMTP Server id 14.3.174.1; Wed, 5 Nov 2014 12:20:31 +0100 Message-ID: <545A07FE.6000000@ericsson.com> Date: Wed, 5 Nov 2014 12:20:30 +0100 From: Balazs Lengyel User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 6.1; WOW64; rv:24.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/24.6.0 MIME-Version: 1.0 To: wangzitao , Martin Bjorklund References: <5458C7D2.5000001@ericsson.com> <20141104.143434.799725916411839357.mbj@tail-f.com> In-Reply-To: Content-Type: multipart/related; boundary="------------030405090707040801000409" X-Brightmail-Tracker: H4sIAAAAAAAAA+NgFnrELMWRmVeSWpSXmKPExsUyM+JvjS4DR1SIwf7P5hbd3c/YLeZfbGS1 aHrdxOLA7NFy5C2rx5IlP5k8Nv5azBLAHMVlk5Kak1mWWqRvl8CVcehaE1PBgSnKFY8fNTI2 MO6ZotTFyMkhIWAiceTuLxYIW0ziwr31bCC2kMARRom5D0K7GLmA7NWMEhNnHANL8ApoS1w7 9QesgUVAReLZnCtgNpuAkcTU/vNgtqhAlMSdS/2sEPWCEidnPgGLiwi4S3zYcQjMZhZQl7hz 6jHQTA4OYQFPibmvciB2LWeU6Hz9nxmkhlMgRGLZ4T2MEPVBEju2v2CCOE5D4uGFv6wTGAVm IVkxC0kZhK0p8e3neihbXqJ562xmCHsyo0TXf30IW1FiSvdDdgjbSKJt/lXWWUB3MAvMYZRo XXGJaQEjxypG0eLU4qTcdCMjvdSizOTi4vw8vbzUkk2MwEg5uOW3wQ7Gl88dDzEKcDAq8fBu mBQZIsSaWFZcmXuIUZqDRUmcd+G5ecFCAumJJanZqakFqUXxRaU5qcWHGJk4OKUaGC3iQ1ku 1H1gO/Bz9bvTO/VYgriX/QjyYFxt8ff5mkw3Z6azdzt1wwyOLTm8Vq7rmBP7jkYn4/VCx48I ecw2cH0udz1njXXazXxd5oobuWv2WW6SfHii4HaHW+hfz8YzcXOU5I8/mrliwRUlxehfVdNv mM9bfX6iZf0We46T+/6teiKXJ9dSaavEUpyRaKjFXFScCAAvGSH9dQIAAA== Archived-At: http://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/netmod/Bx7m7Hh_2ryEJFfivwQ7Qep19uE Cc: "netmod@ietf.org" Subject: Re: [netmod] Multiple replace operations on a YANG 1.1 leaf-list X-BeenThere: netmod@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: NETMOD WG list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 05 Nov 2014 11:20:54 -0000 --------------030405090707040801000409 Content-Type: text/html; charset="GB2312" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Hello,
Yes the list is user-ordered.
In YANG 1.0 it is not described what happens if the operation is replace, and the value already exist.
However we have the following: 
   In an "ordered-by user" leaf-list, the attributes "insert" and
   "value" in the YANG XML namespace (Section 5.3.1) can be used to
   control where in the leaf-list the entry is inserted.  These can be
   used during "create" operations to insert a new leaf-list entry, or
   during "merge" or "replace" operations to insert a new leaf-list
   entry or move an existing one.
This to me means that, if a leaf already exists in a leaf-lists, replace will move it. 
   If no "insert" attribute is present in the "create" operation, it
   defaults to "last".
This to me means, that if insert is not specified one should assume imsert="last". I don't understand why merge and replace are not mentioned in this sentence.

So I believe the result would be [b,a] because: replace will move the leaf a to the last position. (Remove the value and recreate it in the default last position.)
The second replace is really a no-op, but only because "a" is already in the last position.
Agree?
regards Balazs

On 2014-11-05 08:30, wangzitao wrote:
-----ÓʼþÔ­¼þ-----
·¢¼þÈË: netmod [mailto:netmod-bounces@ietf.org] ´ú±í Martin Bjorklund
·¢ËÍʱ¼ä: 2014Äê11ÔÂ4ÈÕ 21:35
ÊÕ¼þÈË: balazs.lengyel@ericsson.com
³­ËÍ: netmod@ietf.org
Ö÷Ìâ: Re: [netmod] Multiple replace operations on a YANG 1.1 leaf-list

Balazs Lengyel <balazs.lengyel@ericsson.com> wrote:

Hello,
yang-version 1;
leaf-list foo {
   type string;
}

I assume you meant ordered-by user as well.


Initially foo = [a,b]

<edit-config>
   <config>
      <foo operation="replace">a</foo>
      <foo operation="replace">a</foo>
   </config>
</edit-config>

Is this allowed? IMHO yes and the result will be foo = [b,a] Agree?

No, the result would be:

  foo = [a,b]

The replace operation is a no-op since it 'a' already exists.

[Michael] why the result is not foo =[a,a]? 
Why initial foo=[a,b] can not be replaced?
[BALAZS}: because the leafs are handled individually not together as a leaf-list.


/martin

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-- 
Balazs Lengyel                       Ericsson Hungary Ltd.
Senior Specialist
ECN: 831 7320                        Tel: +36-1-437-7320
Mobile: +36-70-330-7909              email: Balazs.Lengyel@ericsson.com
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cmcvdG9vbHMvcmZjbWFya3VwLzwvYT4KPC9zbWFsbD48L3NtYWxsPjwvc3Bhbj4KPC9ib2R5 PjwvaHRtbD4K --------------030405090707040801000409-- From nobody Wed Nov 5 04:14:15 2014 Return-Path: X-Original-To: netmod@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: netmod@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id C78741A1A5F for ; Wed, 5 Nov 2014 04:14:12 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.495 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.495 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, RP_MATCHES_RCVD=-0.594, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id cl633wMSlcZA for ; Wed, 5 Nov 2014 04:14:06 -0800 (PST) Received: from mail.tail-f.com (mail.tail-f.com [83.241.162.140]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7FBDB1A8877 for ; Wed, 5 Nov 2014 04:14:04 -0800 (PST) Received: from localhost (x15.tail-f.com [192.168.1.60]) by mail.tail-f.com (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id E4C531280996; Wed, 5 Nov 2014 13:14:02 +0100 (CET) Date: Wed, 05 Nov 2014 13:14:02 +0100 (CET) Message-Id: <20141105.131402.2110919612661565967.mbj@tail-f.com> To: balazs.lengyel@ericsson.com From: Martin Bjorklund In-Reply-To: <545A07FE.6000000@ericsson.com> References: <20141104.143434.799725916411839357.mbj@tail-f.com> <545A07FE.6000000@ericsson.com> X-Mailer: Mew version 6.5 on Emacs 23.4 / Mule 6.0 (HANACHIRUSATO) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: Text/Plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Archived-At: http://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/netmod/XHqRpVk8ENu66QUmXyxUTSashxg Cc: netmod@ietf.org Subject: Re: [netmod] Multiple replace operations on a YANG 1.1 leaf-list X-BeenThere: netmod@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: NETMOD WG list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 05 Nov 2014 12:14:14 -0000 Balazs Lengyel wrote: > Hello, > Yes the list is user-ordered. > In YANG 1.0 it is not described what happens if the operation is > replace, and > the value already exist. > However we have the following: > > > In an "ordered-by user" leaf-list, the attributes "insert" and > > "value" in the YANG XML namespace (Section 5.3.1) can be used to > > control where in the leaf-list the entry is inserted. These can be > > used during "create" operations to insert a new leaf-list entry, or > > during "merge" or "replace" operations to insert a new leaf-list > > entry or move an existing one. > > This to me means that, if a leaf already exists in a leaf-lists, > replace will > move it. > > > If no "insert" attribute is present in the "create" operation, it > > defaults to "last". > > This to me means, that if insert is not specified one should assume > imsert= > "last". I don't understand why merge and replace are not mentioned in > this > sentence. Because it works the same as for ordered-by user lists. You don't want to move a list entry last just b/c you changed one leaf in it. With the current rules, leaf-list and list work the same for the same operations. /martin From nobody Wed Nov 5 04:26:23 2014 Return-Path: X-Original-To: netmod@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: netmod@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 66F6D1A8885 for ; Wed, 5 Nov 2014 04:26:21 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.9 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.9 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9] autolearn=ham Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id eigJXjkYEhgw for ; Wed, 5 Nov 2014 04:26:17 -0800 (PST) Received: from trail.lhotka.name (trail.lhotka.name [77.48.224.143]) (using TLSv1.1 with cipher AECDH-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 85BFF1A8881 for ; Wed, 5 Nov 2014 04:26:17 -0800 (PST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by trail.lhotka.name (Postfix) with ESMTP id ABD765404C8; Wed, 5 Nov 2014 13:26:15 +0100 (CET) Received: from trail.lhotka.name ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (trail.lhotka.name [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 2fMX6fcTFiBj; Wed, 5 Nov 2014 13:26:10 +0100 (CET) Received: from localhost (unknown [195.113.220.254]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by trail.lhotka.name (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 380C45400C8; Wed, 5 Nov 2014 13:26:09 +0100 (CET) From: Ladislav Lhotka To: Balazs Lengyel , "netmod\@ietf.org" In-Reply-To: <545A04F0.8010005@ericsson.com> References: <545A04F0.8010005@ericsson.com> User-Agent: Notmuch/0.18.1 (http://notmuchmail.org) Emacs/24.4.1 (x86_64-apple-darwin13.4.0) Date: Wed, 05 Nov 2014 13:26:09 +0100 Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Archived-At: http://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/netmod/7GC8Hqkvo45ZwHqlMVh54wL0EcI Subject: Re: [netmod] NonUnique leaf-list X-BeenThere: netmod@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: NETMOD WG list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 05 Nov 2014 12:26:21 -0000 Hi Balazs, a few questions and comments: - I have doubts about the non-unique system-ordered case, especially because you also write that in this case "different leafs with the same value should be equivalent". So what's the point of having them there? - How can addressing by value and by position be in conflict? - Actually, I think the formulation "A leaf-list is a sequence of leaf nodes." is not correct. The term "(data) node" refers to the schema tree (see sec. 3), so a leaf-list is a data node but its entries aren't. It should be something like "A leaf-list is a sequence of scalar values of a particular type." - Maybe it's time to move sections like 7.7.7 to the NETCONF spec. YANG should clearly define leaf-list semantics, and corresponding protocol issues should be dealt with in the protocol spec, be it NETCONF, RESTCONF or whatever. - Would it make sense to do the same for lists, i.e. in terms of key uniqueness? It seems all non-unique leaf-list considerations are applicable to list keys as well. Lada Balazs Lengyel writes: > Hello, > As decided in one of the interim meetings here is my proposal for > nonUnique leaf-lists in YANG 1.1. > I included a brief overview and the list of changes needed for the draft > as well. > regards Balazs > > -- > Balazs Lengyel Ericsson Hungary Ltd. > Senior Specialist > ECN: 831 7320 Tel: +36-1-437-7320 > Mobile: +36-70-330-7909 email: Balazs.Lengyel@ericsson.com > > Date: 2014-11-04 > rev 5 > Balazs Lengyel > > NonUnique leaf-list > > ######################################################################## > > Summary: > By introducing the unique-leaf-list true/false; statement it is allowed for leaf-lists to have multiple leafs with the same value. > The default behavior is that a leaf-list MUST have unique leafs which is fully compatible with the YANG 1.0. > > There are use cases for all four variants of a leaf-list > unique system-ordered: SCTP endpoint addresses > unique user-ordered: list of authentication mechanism to use: radius, ldap, local > non-unique system-ordered: unknown but it was indicated that some users need it > non-unique user-ordered: list of AS-Paths, list of queueing weights in a scheduler > > When a leaf in a leaf-list is addressed (by value as in YANG 1.0), if the value is present multiple times in the leaf-list, it is not trivial what is addressed, one specific leaf (which one?) or all the leafs with the specified value. For simplicity addressing by value will point at the first leaf with the specified value. > > To make handling the individual leafs easier addressing by position is also introduced for leaf-lists. Addressing by position is only allowed for user-ordered leaf-lists as the order in a system-ordered leaf-list might change. In unordered/system-ordered lists addressing by value is sufficient as the different leafs with the same value should be equivalent. > Any case when addressing by value and addressing by position conflicts is considered an error. > > Some variants of the operation will have a changed behavior. > - create will always succeed for a non-unique leaf-list even if the specified value already exists: in this case it does not mean recreating an existing value, it rather means creating one more leaf (instance) with the same value. > - replace by position will allow changing the value at a specific position from x to y. > > Some restrictions are imposed on the allowed operations, as some variants can become too complicated both for humans to understand and implementers to implement, and there is no reasonable use case that needs them. (e.g. addressing some leafs by value and some by position in the same edit-config, creating, deleting, replacing and merging leafs with the same value in a single edit-config operation) > > ######################################################################## > Needed changes to the RFC: > > --- Change to chapter 3: > leaf-list: Like the leaf node but defines a set of uniquely > identifiable nodes rather than a single node. Each node has a > value but no child nodes. > > change to > > leaf-list: Like the leaf node but defines a set of nodes rather > than a single node. Each node has a value but no child nodes. > > --- Change to chapter 4.2.2.2: > A leaf-list is a sequence of leaf nodes with exactly one value of a > particular type per leaf. > > What does this mean? Does it mean that leaf-lists need to have unique leafs? > Change to: > > A leaf-list is a sequence of leaf nodes. > > --- Change to chapter 7.7 > The values in a leaf-list MUST be unique. > Change to: > The values in a leaf-list MAY be repeated or MUST be unique depending on the unique-leaf-list (see Section xxx). > > > --- Change to chapter 7.7.2 > Add: > > unique-leaf-list cardinality 0..1 > > --- Add a level 3 chapter before 7.7.6 > 7.7.5b The unique-leaf-list Statement > The "unique-leaf-list" statement takes as an argument the string "true" or > "false". If "unique-leaf-list" is "true", values within the leaf-lists must be unique. > If "unique-leaf-list" is "false", values within the leaf-lists may be repeated. > If "unique-leaf-list" is not specified, the default is true. > > --- Change chapter 7.7.7 > Change to: > Leaf-lists entries are handled as individual items by the > operation. They can be created, deleted, and in some cases moved or > replaced depending on the "operation", "insert", "value" and "position" > attributes in the operation, and the "unique-leaf-list" > statement. > > An individual leaf to be handled by the operation can be selected either > based on its value or on it's position in the leaf-list. > When selected by value it is the first leaf with the specific value > that will be handled, even if the value exists in the leaf-list multiple times. > Selecting by position is only allowed in an "ordered-by user" leaf-list. > Position must be between 1 and the length of the leaf-list, if it is not, it is an error. > Selecting leafs within one specific leaf-list in one edit-config operation > can be done either by value or by position, but using both selection > by value and selection by position for the same leaf-list is an error. > > ---Note: Actualy I would allow selection by position for > system-ordered leaf-lists as well. Often the system > produces a well defined and stable order, so position is usable. We should not > explicitly forbid it, just state that as the order MIGHT not be stable or > predictable, results are implementation specific. > > It is possible to handle multiple leafs with the same or different value in > the same request, the entries are handled one at the > time, in the order of the XML elements in the request. > > In order to simplify handling, when an edit-config operation > - modifies a leaf-list with unique-leaf-list false and > - selection by value is used and > - the operation modifies multiple leafs from the leaf-list and > - multiple such leafs in the operation have the same value > the following rules apply: > - all leafs MUST have the same effective operation attribute, > e.g. having create on some of them and merge on others is an error. > - the first leaf of a specific value will select the the first leaf > with the same value in the datastore, the second leaf will select > the second leaf from the datastore (if it exists) and so on. > Which leafs are selected MUST be calculated before any > modification to the leaf-list in the datastore. > > ---Note: We need the above special rule, to support the use cases of > simple additive merge and replacing many leafs. Other extreme complicated > use cases are disallowed. > > When a NETCONF server processes an request, the > elements of procedure for a leaf-list node are: > > If the operation is "remove", the entry is deleted from the leaf- > list if it exists. > > If the operation is "delete", the entry is deleted from the leaf- > list if it exists. If the leaf-list entry does not exist, a > "data-missing" error is returned. > > If the operation is "create", and the leaf-list is a unique-leaf-list > and the entry does not yet exists, it is created as specified by the > insert, value and position attributes. If the entry already exists > an error is returned. > > If the operation is "create", and the leaf-list is not a unique-leaf-list > the entry is created even if a leaf with the same value already exists. > The create operation means adding one more leaf with the same value. > > > In an "ordered-by user" leaf-list, the attributes "position", "insert" and > "value" in the YANG XML namespace (Section 5.3.1) can be used to > control where in the leaf-list the entry is inserted. These can be > used during "create" operations to insert a new leaf-list entry, > or during "merge" or "replace" operations to insert a new leaf-list > entry or to move or replace an existing one. > > The "insert" attribute can take the values "first", "last", "before", > and "after". If the value is "before" or "after", exactly one of the "value" or the "position" > attributes MUST also be used to specify an existing entry in the leaf- > list. If the value is "first" or "last", neither the "position" nor the > "value" attribute is allowed. > > If the "position" attribute is specified, but "insert" is not, "insert" > defaults to the value "after". > > If no "insert" or "position" attributes are present in the "create", > "replace" or "merge" operations, it defaults to "insert=last". > > If the operation is "replace" or "merge", and the position attribute is used > replace the value specified by position. If both position and > insert=after/before is specified, insert a new leaf with the value > at the specified position. For unique-leaf-lists an operation MUST NOT result > in two leafs with the same value. > > If the operation is "replace" or "merge", and the position attribute is not used > delete the first leaf with the specified value if it exist, and create > it as specified by insert/value attributes. > If the edit-config operation modifies multiple leafs with the same value, > the special rules described above apply. > > In an with a "replace", or a a operation > that covers the entire leaf-list, the leaf-list order is the same as > the order of the XML elements in the request. > > > Usage example for position: > > > xmlns="urn:ietf:params:xml:ns:netconf:base:1.0" > xmlns:nc="urn:ietf:params:xml:ns:netconf:base:1.0" > xmlns:yang="urn:ietf:params:xml:ns:yang:1"> > > > > > > > > Ethernet0/0 > 1500 >
> 192.0.2.4 > 24 >
> yang:position="2" > yang:insert="after"> > > > > > > > > > -- change 9.13 > TBD > > -- change 11.1 > Add: > | unique-leaf-list | value | false | > > -- change 12 > TBD > Add the unique-leaf-list statement > > -- change 13.1 > Modify so it applies to leaf-lists as well. > ---Note: This is an error correction, independent of the introduction of nonUnique leaf-lists > > -- change 13.8 > Modify to cover the position attribute > > -- change 13.x > Add new chapters for the following errors > - not allowed combinations of value, insert and position > - position value out of range > - mixed usage of selection by value and position for leaf-lists > - mixed usage of the operation parameter for a nonUnique leaf-list when addressing by value > _______________________________________________ > netmod mailing list > netmod@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/netmod -- Ladislav Lhotka, CZ.NIC Labs PGP Key ID: E74E8C0C From nobody Wed Nov 5 05:04:36 2014 Return-Path: X-Original-To: netmod@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: netmod@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2F0B71A1A5F for ; Wed, 5 Nov 2014 05:04:34 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.494 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.494 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, RP_MATCHES_RCVD=-0.594] autolearn=ham Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id IRvF6H-pj5nN for ; Wed, 5 Nov 2014 05:04:31 -0800 (PST) Received: from gate.mg-soft.si (gate.mg-soft.si [212.30.73.66]) (using TLSv1 with cipher DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 6AE771A8885 for ; Wed, 5 Nov 2014 05:04:31 -0800 (PST) Received: from [10.0.0.222] (tp-x61t.mg-soft.si [10.0.0.222]) by gate.mg-soft.si (8.13.8/8.13.8) with ESMTP id sA5D4Sub012002; Wed, 5 Nov 2014 14:04:28 +0100 Message-ID: <545A2058.6070106@mg-soft.com> Date: Wed, 05 Nov 2014 14:04:24 +0100 From: Jernej Tuljak User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 6.1; WOW64; rv:17.0) Gecko/17.0 Thunderbird/17.0 MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Martin Bjorklund References: <20141002083148.1436.15021.idtracker@ietfa.amsl.com> <20141002.103643.614023022702737829.mbj@tail-f.com> <20141002093053.GB40545@elstar.local> <20141030.125308.1037916628144270920.mbj@tail-f.com> In-Reply-To: <20141030.125308.1037916628144270920.mbj@tail-f.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=windows-1252; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Archived-At: http://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/netmod/YDVQqsJNVfzVZ6VJujKiPV2Q8Yg Cc: netmod@ietf.org Subject: Re: [netmod] I-D Action: draft-ietf-netmod-rfc6020bis-01.txt X-BeenThere: netmod@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: NETMOD WG list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 05 Nov 2014 13:04:34 -0000 I see that the issues I raised regarding XPath expressions (http://www.ietf.org/mail-archive/web/netmod/current/msg10172.html) have now made it into rfc6087bis-01 section 5.5. Section 5.5.1, what should a YANG compiler return for 'namespace-uri()' and 'name()' function if they are used? I still disagree with Section 5.5.2 Axes, where it describes usage guidelines of preceding-sibling and following-sibling. These may be used without issue if document order does not affect the outcome of the expression, the same way preceding and following can be. See Ladislav's suggestion for a possible solution (http://www.ietf.org/mail-archive/web/netmod/current/msg10191.html). Section 5.5.4. Wildcards: * (first paragraph) the last sentence ("This is due to augmenting nodes from other modules."), seems redundant or wrong. Augmentation is not the only thing that affects XPath expressions that use wildcards. Simply implementing another module that defines a data tree is enough. * (second paragraph) the asterisk is not an operator in the context where it is being described, it is a node test. The asterisk that represents an operator in XPath has nothing to do with this text which may lead to confusion. * (second paragraph) term "augmenting objects" should probably be "augmented objects". Jernej Dne 30.10.2014 12:53, piše Martin Bjorklund: > Hi, > > A gentle reminder of a draft in the need of review! > > Number of reviews so far: 0 > > > Juergen Schoenwaelder wrote: >> On Thu, Oct 02, 2014 at 10:36:43AM +0200, Martin Bjorklund wrote: >>> Hi, >>> >>> I have posted draft-ietf-netmod-rfc6020bis-01.txt, which addresses 11 >>> of our issues. These issues are now in the REVIEW state in the issues >>> list (https://svn.tools.ietf.org/svn/wg/netmod/yang-1.1/issues.html) >>> >>> Please review the draft or the diff to make sure that these issues are >>> properly addressed. When these are reviewed, I will post a new >>> version with a new set of issues addressed. >>> >> WG members, >> >> once you have reviewed the changes, send a short note to the list so >> that we can track that reviews of the edits have been done. >> >> /js > > /martin > > _______________________________________________ > netmod mailing list > netmod@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/netmod From nobody Wed Nov 5 05:07:24 2014 Return-Path: X-Original-To: netmod@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: netmod@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id A98F71A8896 for ; Wed, 5 Nov 2014 05:07:12 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.494 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.494 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, RP_MATCHES_RCVD=-0.594] autolearn=ham Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id LvOa2fQPDJOt for ; Wed, 5 Nov 2014 05:07:11 -0800 (PST) Received: from gate.mg-soft.si (gate.mg-soft.si [212.30.73.66]) (using TLSv1 with cipher DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 95D381A88AE for ; Wed, 5 Nov 2014 05:07:07 -0800 (PST) Received: from [10.0.0.222] (tp-x61t.mg-soft.si [10.0.0.222]) by gate.mg-soft.si (8.13.8/8.13.8) with ESMTP id sA5D73Em012037; Wed, 5 Nov 2014 14:07:03 +0100 Message-ID: <545A20F4.90300@mg-soft.com> Date: Wed, 05 Nov 2014 14:07:00 +0100 From: Jernej Tuljak User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 6.1; WOW64; rv:17.0) Gecko/17.0 Thunderbird/17.0 MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Martin Bjorklund References: <20141002083148.1436.15021.idtracker@ietfa.amsl.com> <20141002.103643.614023022702737829.mbj@tail-f.com> <20141002093053.GB40545@elstar.local> <20141030.125308.1037916628144270920.mbj@tail-f.com> <545A2058.6070106@mg-soft.com> In-Reply-To: <545A2058.6070106@mg-soft.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=windows-1252; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Archived-At: http://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/netmod/e-yd9b4EDFRVVvGxqVO_VEFVe8k Cc: netmod@ietf.org Subject: Re: [netmod] I-D Action: draft-ietf-netmod-rfc6020bis-01.txt X-BeenThere: netmod@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: NETMOD WG list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 05 Nov 2014 13:07:13 -0000 I seem to have somehow replied to the wrong thread. Please fix. Jernej Dne 5.11.2014 14:04, piše Jernej Tuljak: > I see that the issues I raised regarding XPath expressions > (http://www.ietf.org/mail-archive/web/netmod/current/msg10172.html) > have now made it into rfc6087bis-01 section 5.5. > > Section 5.5.1, what should a YANG compiler return for > 'namespace-uri()' and 'name()' function if they are used? > > I still disagree with Section 5.5.2 Axes, where it describes usage > guidelines of preceding-sibling and following-sibling. These may be > used without issue if document order does not affect the outcome of > the expression, the same way preceding and following can be. See > Ladislav's suggestion for a possible solution > (http://www.ietf.org/mail-archive/web/netmod/current/msg10191.html). > > Section 5.5.4. Wildcards: > * (first paragraph) the last sentence ("This is due to augmenting > nodes from other modules."), seems redundant or wrong. Augmentation is > not the only thing that affects XPath expressions that use wildcards. > Simply implementing another module that defines a data tree is enough. > * (second paragraph) the asterisk is not an operator in the context > where it is being described, it is a node test. The asterisk that > represents an operator in XPath has nothing to do with this text which > may lead to confusion. > * (second paragraph) term "augmenting objects" should probably be > "augmented objects". > > Jernej > > Dne 30.10.2014 12:53, piše Martin Bjorklund: >> Hi, >> >> A gentle reminder of a draft in the need of review! >> >> Number of reviews so far: 0 >> >> >> Juergen Schoenwaelder wrote: >>> On Thu, Oct 02, 2014 at 10:36:43AM +0200, Martin Bjorklund wrote: >>>> Hi, >>>> >>>> I have posted draft-ietf-netmod-rfc6020bis-01.txt, which addresses 11 >>>> of our issues. These issues are now in the REVIEW state in the issues >>>> list (https://svn.tools.ietf.org/svn/wg/netmod/yang-1.1/issues.html) >>>> >>>> Please review the draft or the diff to make sure that these issues are >>>> properly addressed. When these are reviewed, I will post a new >>>> version with a new set of issues addressed. >>>> >>> WG members, >>> >>> once you have reviewed the changes, send a short note to the list so >>> that we can track that reviews of the edits have been done. >>> >>> /js >> >> /martin >> >> _______________________________________________ >> netmod mailing list >> netmod@ietf.org >> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/netmod > From nobody Wed Nov 5 05:10:23 2014 Return-Path: X-Original-To: netmod@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: netmod@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9F4C51A88A0 for ; Wed, 5 Nov 2014 05:10:19 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.495 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.495 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, RP_MATCHES_RCVD=-0.594, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id M5kzfz_hiuzE for ; Wed, 5 Nov 2014 05:10:17 -0800 (PST) Received: from mail.tail-f.com (mail.tail-f.com [83.241.162.140]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id A16E91A8885 for ; Wed, 5 Nov 2014 05:10:16 -0800 (PST) Received: from localhost (x15.tail-f.com [192.168.1.60]) by mail.tail-f.com (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id B94AA128099A; Wed, 5 Nov 2014 14:10:15 +0100 (CET) Date: Wed, 05 Nov 2014 14:10:15 +0100 (CET) Message-Id: <20141105.141015.2074716022446682477.mbj@tail-f.com> To: jernej.tuljak@mg-soft.si From: Martin Bjorklund In-Reply-To: <545A20F4.90300@mg-soft.com> References: <20141030.125308.1037916628144270920.mbj@tail-f.com> <545A2058.6070106@mg-soft.com> <545A20F4.90300@mg-soft.com> X-Mailer: Mew version 6.5 on Emacs 23.4 / Mule 6.0 (HANACHIRUSATO) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: Text/Plain; charset=iso-8859-15 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Archived-At: http://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/netmod/1MI9Br_4zc9RovgrKMHzFaW0898 Cc: netmod@ietf.org Subject: Re: [netmod] I-D Action: draft-ietf-netmod-rfc6020bis-01.txt X-BeenThere: netmod@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: NETMOD WG list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 05 Nov 2014 13:10:20 -0000 Jernej Tuljak wrote: > I seem to have somehow replied to the wrong thread. Please fix. Do you want me to go back in time and make sure you reply to the right thread ;) /martin > = > Jernej > = > Dne 5.11.2014 14:04, pi=A8e Jernej Tuljak: > > I see that the issues I raised regarding XPath expressions > > (http://www.ietf.org/mail-archive/web/netmod/current/msg10172.html)= > > have now made it into rfc6087bis-01 section 5.5. > > > > Section 5.5.1, what should a YANG compiler return for > > 'namespace-uri()' and 'name()' function if they are used? > > > > I still disagree with Section 5.5.2 Axes, where it describes usage > > guidelines of preceding-sibling and following-sibling. These may be= > > used without issue if document order does not affect the outcome of= > > the expression, the same way preceding and following can be. See > > Ladislav's suggestion for a possible solution > > (http://www.ietf.org/mail-archive/web/netmod/current/msg10191.html)= .= > > > > Section 5.5.4. Wildcards: > > * (first paragraph) the last sentence ("This is due to augmenting n= odes > > * from other modules."), seems redundant or wrong. Augmentation is = not > > * the only thing that affects XPath expressions that use > > * wildcards. Simply implementing another module that defines a data= tree > > * is enough. > > * (second paragraph) the asterisk is not an operator in the context= > > * where it is being described, it is a node test. The asterisk that= > > * represents an operator in XPath has nothing to do with this text = which > > * may lead to confusion. > > * (second paragraph) term "augmenting objects" should probably be > > * "augmented objects". > > > > Jernej > > > > Dne 30.10.2014 12:53, pi=A8e Martin Bjorklund: > >> Hi, > >> > >> A gentle reminder of a draft in the need of review! > >> > >> Number of reviews so far: 0 > >> > >> > >> Juergen Schoenwaelder wrote= : > >>> On Thu, Oct 02, 2014 at 10:36:43AM +0200, Martin Bjorklund wrote:= > >>>> Hi, > >>>> > >>>> I have posted draft-ietf-netmod-rfc6020bis-01.txt, which address= es 11 > >>>> of our issues. These issues are now in the REVIEW state in the = issues > >>>> list (https://svn.tools.ietf.org/svn/wg/netmod/yang-1.1/issues.h= tml) > >>>> > >>>> Please review the draft or the diff to make sure that these issu= es are > >>>> properly addressed. When these are reviewed, I will post a new > >>>> version with a new set of issues addressed. > >>>> > >>> WG members, > >>> > >>> once you have reviewed the changes, send a short note to the list= so > >>> that we can track that reviews of the edits have been done. > >>> > >>> /js > >> > >> /martin > >> > >> _______________________________________________ > >> netmod mailing list > >> netmod@ietf.org > >> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/netmod > > > = From nobody Wed Nov 5 05:13:18 2014 Return-Path: X-Original-To: netmod@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: netmod@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5243D1A88A1 for ; Wed, 5 Nov 2014 05:13:17 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.494 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.494 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, RP_MATCHES_RCVD=-0.594] autolearn=ham Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id HkveT0CTJRgL for ; Wed, 5 Nov 2014 05:13:15 -0800 (PST) Received: from gate.mg-soft.si (gate.mg-soft.si [212.30.73.66]) (using TLSv1 with cipher DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 81A241A88A0 for ; Wed, 5 Nov 2014 05:13:15 -0800 (PST) Received: from [10.0.0.222] (tp-x61t.mg-soft.si [10.0.0.222]) by gate.mg-soft.si (8.13.8/8.13.8) with ESMTP id sA5DDDrU012244; Wed, 5 Nov 2014 14:13:13 +0100 Message-ID: <545A2266.70608@mg-soft.com> Date: Wed, 05 Nov 2014 14:13:10 +0100 From: Jernej Tuljak User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 6.1; WOW64; rv:17.0) Gecko/17.0 Thunderbird/17.0 MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Martin Bjorklund References: <20141030.125308.1037916628144270920.mbj@tail-f.com> <545A2058.6070106@mg-soft.com> <545A20F4.90300@mg-soft.com> <20141105.141015.2074716022446682477.mbj@tail-f.com> In-Reply-To: <20141105.141015.2074716022446682477.mbj@tail-f.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-15; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Archived-At: http://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/netmod/amx0n_3PaOyx6mR4XrSCTzkJCWA Cc: netmod@ietf.org Subject: Re: [netmod] I-D Action: draft-ietf-netmod-rfc6020bis-01.txt X-BeenThere: netmod@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: NETMOD WG list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 05 Nov 2014 13:13:17 -0000 Dne 5.11.2014 14:10, pi¨e Martin Bjorklund: > Jernej Tuljak wrote: >> I seem to have somehow replied to the wrong thread. Please fix. > Do you want me to go back in time and make sure you reply to the right > thread ;) Point taken. Sorry. Jernej > > > /martin > > > >> Jernej >> >> Dne 5.11.2014 14:04, pi¨e Jernej Tuljak: >>> I see that the issues I raised regarding XPath expressions >>> (http://www.ietf.org/mail-archive/web/netmod/current/msg10172.html) >>> have now made it into rfc6087bis-01 section 5.5. >>> >>> Section 5.5.1, what should a YANG compiler return for >>> 'namespace-uri()' and 'name()' function if they are used? >>> >>> I still disagree with Section 5.5.2 Axes, where it describes usage >>> guidelines of preceding-sibling and following-sibling. These may be >>> used without issue if document order does not affect the outcome of >>> the expression, the same way preceding and following can be. See >>> Ladislav's suggestion for a possible solution >>> (http://www.ietf.org/mail-archive/web/netmod/current/msg10191.html). >>> >>> Section 5.5.4. Wildcards: >>> * (first paragraph) the last sentence ("This is due to augmenting nodes >>> * from other modules."), seems redundant or wrong. Augmentation is not >>> * the only thing that affects XPath expressions that use >>> * wildcards. Simply implementing another module that defines a data tree >>> * is enough. >>> * (second paragraph) the asterisk is not an operator in the context >>> * where it is being described, it is a node test. The asterisk that >>> * represents an operator in XPath has nothing to do with this text which >>> * may lead to confusion. >>> * (second paragraph) term "augmenting objects" should probably be >>> * "augmented objects". >>> >>> Jernej >>> >>> Dne 30.10.2014 12:53, pi¨e Martin Bjorklund: >>>> Hi, >>>> >>>> A gentle reminder of a draft in the need of review! >>>> >>>> Number of reviews so far: 0 >>>> >>>> >>>> Juergen Schoenwaelder wrote: >>>>> On Thu, Oct 02, 2014 at 10:36:43AM +0200, Martin Bjorklund wrote: >>>>>> Hi, >>>>>> >>>>>> I have posted draft-ietf-netmod-rfc6020bis-01.txt, which addresses 11 >>>>>> of our issues. These issues are now in the REVIEW state in the issues >>>>>> list (https://svn.tools.ietf.org/svn/wg/netmod/yang-1.1/issues.html) >>>>>> >>>>>> Please review the draft or the diff to make sure that these issues are >>>>>> properly addressed. When these are reviewed, I will post a new >>>>>> version with a new set of issues addressed. >>>>>> >>>>> WG members, >>>>> >>>>> once you have reviewed the changes, send a short note to the list so >>>>> that we can track that reviews of the edits have been done. >>>>> >>>>> /js >>>> /martin >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> netmod mailing list >>>> netmod@ietf.org >>>> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/netmod From nobody Wed Nov 5 05:18:33 2014 Return-Path: X-Original-To: netmod@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: netmod@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4EB581A8896 for ; Wed, 5 Nov 2014 05:18:32 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.494 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.494 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, RP_MATCHES_RCVD=-0.594] autolearn=ham Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id KszbiFeedgZK for ; Wed, 5 Nov 2014 05:18:30 -0800 (PST) Received: from gate.mg-soft.si (gate.mg-soft.si [212.30.73.66]) (using TLSv1 with cipher DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 917741A1A5F for ; Wed, 5 Nov 2014 05:18:30 -0800 (PST) Received: from [10.0.0.222] (tp-x61t.mg-soft.si [10.0.0.222]) by gate.mg-soft.si (8.13.8/8.13.8) with ESMTP id sA5DITrr012352 for ; Wed, 5 Nov 2014 14:18:29 +0100 Message-ID: <545A23A1.20006@mg-soft.com> Date: Wed, 05 Nov 2014 14:18:25 +0100 From: Jernej Tuljak User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 6.1; WOW64; rv:17.0) Gecko/17.0 Thunderbird/17.0 MIME-Version: 1.0 To: netmod@ietf.org References: <20141023233014.23083.56508.idtracker@ietfa.amsl.com> In-Reply-To: <20141023233014.23083.56508.idtracker@ietfa.amsl.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=windows-1252; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Archived-At: http://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/netmod/J0JOn_8c47T__z5VFXaHRmrqYq0 Subject: Re: [netmod] I-D Action: draft-ietf-netmod-rfc6087bis-01.txt X-BeenThere: netmod@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: NETMOD WG list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 05 Nov 2014 13:18:32 -0000 (now replying to the proper thread) I see that the issues I raised regarding XPath expressions (http://www.ietf.org/mail-archive/web/netmod/current/msg10172.html) have now made it into rfc6087bis-01 section 5.5. Section 5.5.1, what should a YANG compiler return for 'namespace-uri()' and 'name()' function if they are used? I still disagree with Section 5.5.2 Axes, where it describes usage guidelines of preceding-sibling and following-sibling. These may be used without issue if document order does not affect the outcome of the expression, the same way preceding and following can be. See Ladislav's suggestion for a possible solution (http://www.ietf.org/mail-archive/web/netmod/current/msg10191.html). Section 5.5.4. Wildcards: * (first paragraph) the last sentence ("This is due to augmenting nodes from other modules."), seems redundant or wrong. Augmentation is not the only thing that affects XPath expressions that use wildcards. Simply implementing another module that defines a data tree is enough. * (second paragraph) the asterisk is not an operator in the context where it is being described, it is a node test. The asterisk that represents an operator in XPath has nothing to do with this text which may lead to confusion. * (second paragraph) term "augmenting objects" should probably be "augmented objects". Jernej Dne 24.10.2014 1:30, piše internet-drafts@ietf.org: > A New Internet-Draft is available from the on-line Internet-Drafts directories. > This draft is a work item of the NETCONF Data Modeling Language Working Group of the IETF. > > Title : Guidelines for Authors and Reviewers of YANG Data Model Documents > Author : Andy Bierman > Filename : draft-ietf-netmod-rfc6087bis-01.txt > Pages : 36 > Date : 2014-10-23 > > Abstract: > This memo provides guidelines for authors and reviewers of Standards > Track specifications containing YANG data model modules. Applicable > portions may be used as a basis for reviews of other YANG data model > documents. Recommendations and procedures are defined, which are > intended to increase interoperability and usability of Network > Configuration Protocol (NETCONF) implementations that utilize YANG > data model modules. > > > The IETF datatracker status page for this draft is: > https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-netmod-rfc6087bis/ > > There's also a htmlized version available at: > http://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-netmod-rfc6087bis-01 > > A diff from the previous version is available at: > http://www.ietf.org/rfcdiff?url2=draft-ietf-netmod-rfc6087bis-01 > > > Please note that it may take a couple of minutes from the time of submission > until the htmlized version and diff are available at tools.ietf.org. > > Internet-Drafts are also available by anonymous FTP at: > ftp://ftp.ietf.org/internet-drafts/ > > _______________________________________________ > netmod mailing list > netmod@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/netmod From nobody Wed Nov 5 05:28:15 2014 Return-Path: X-Original-To: netmod@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: netmod@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2A0151A1B39 for ; Wed, 5 Nov 2014 05:28:14 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.144 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.144 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, HELO_EQ_DE=0.35, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, RP_MATCHES_RCVD=-0.594] autolearn=ham Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id R9TmB2xdh7kZ for ; Wed, 5 Nov 2014 05:28:11 -0800 (PST) Received: from atlas3.jacobs-university.de (atlas3.jacobs-university.de [212.201.44.18]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher AECDH-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id C2BD11A1B0E for ; Wed, 5 Nov 2014 05:28:10 -0800 (PST) Received: from localhost (demetrius5.irc-it.jacobs-university.de [10.70.0.222]) by atlas3.jacobs-university.de (Postfix) with ESMTP id 94C5B787 for ; Wed, 5 Nov 2014 14:28:09 +0100 (CET) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at jacobs-university.de Received: from atlas3.jacobs-university.de ([10.70.0.220]) by localhost (demetrius5.jacobs-university.de [10.70.0.222]) (amavisd-new, port 10030) with ESMTP id CsgM9oawYFC2 for ; Wed, 5 Nov 2014 14:27:54 +0100 (CET) Received: from hermes.jacobs-university.de (hermes.jacobs-university.de [212.201.44.23]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (Client CN "hermes.jacobs-university.de", Issuer "Jacobs University CA - G01" (verified OK)) by atlas3.jacobs-university.de (Postfix) with ESMTPS for ; Wed, 5 Nov 2014 14:28:07 +0100 (CET) Received: from localhost (demetrius1.jacobs-university.de [212.201.44.46]) by hermes.jacobs-university.de (Postfix) with ESMTP id B7E1120038 for ; Wed, 5 Nov 2014 14:28:07 +0100 (CET) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at jacobs-university.de Received: from hermes.jacobs-university.de ([212.201.44.23]) by localhost (demetrius1.jacobs-university.de [212.201.44.32]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 8V6UkPKT0UNB; Wed, 5 Nov 2014 14:28:05 +0100 (CET) Received: from elstar.local (elstar.jacobs.jacobs-university.de [10.50.231.133]) by hermes.jacobs-university.de (Postfix) with ESMTP id 91C7320035; Wed, 5 Nov 2014 14:28:05 +0100 (CET) Received: by elstar.local (Postfix, from userid 501) id 86FF42F450DC; Wed, 5 Nov 2014 14:28:05 +0100 (CET) Date: Wed, 5 Nov 2014 14:28:05 +0100 From: Juergen Schoenwaelder To: netmod@ietf.org Message-ID: <20141105132805.GA23832@elstar.local> Mail-Followup-To: netmod@ietf.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="zhXaljGHf11kAtnf" Content-Disposition: inline User-Agent: Mutt/1.4.2.3i Archived-At: http://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/netmod/OzKYuy8BD8_CY6aEL_kFA3eVlvg Subject: [netmod] minutes of the NETMOD 2014-10-15 virtual interim meeting X-BeenThere: netmod@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list Reply-To: Juergen Schoenwaelder List-Id: NETMOD WG list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 05 Nov 2014 13:28:14 -0000 --zhXaljGHf11kAtnf Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline Hi, attached are the minutes of the 2014-10-15 virtual interim meeting. Please let me know if something needs fixing. You can find all the virtual interim meeting minutes next to the YANG 1.1 issue list in the NETMOD WG subversion repository: http://svn.tools.ietf.org/svn/wg/netmod/yang-1.1/ /js -- Juergen Schoenwaelder Jacobs University Bremen gGmbH Phone: +49 421 200 3587 Campus Ring 1, 28759 Bremen, Germany Fax: +49 421 200 3103 --zhXaljGHf11kAtnf Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: attachment; filename="netmod-2014-10-15-minutes.txt" ============================================================= NETCONF Data Modeling Language WG (netmod) 6th YANG 1.1 Virtual Interim Wednesday, October 15, 2014, 16:00-18:00 CEST Minutes Juergen Schoenwaelder ============================================================= * Participants - JS = Juergen Schoenwaelder - BL = Balazs Lengyel - MB = Martin Bjorklund - LL = Lada Lothka - EV = Eric Voit - AB = Andy Biermann - V? = Vladimir - DR = David Reid - JT = JF Tremblay - KW = Kent Watsen - TN = Tom Nadeau * Organizational - This is the last virtual interim allocated to YANG 1.1. How do we continue? - Allocate slots to continue right after the IETF week, keeping the Wednesday slots. - Can we use the 29th of October? The IETF meeting is November 9-14 and the next possible slot after October 29th would be November 19. - During the next meeting, we will try to tackle the conformance related issues again. * Y58 associate an actions with a data node JS: Is Balazs proposal complete? Do we need to formally define an RPC? MB: Yes, there should be an RPC for it. BL: I agree with an RPC definition. LL: What about the approach of sending an instance identifier? BL: Is this Q2? BL: Having the action element inside of the nested tree avoids issues with name clashes. This also maps more natural to the CLI. AB: The signature of a reset action may differ significantly depending on where it appears. AB: I do not really like this much but this is all implementation detail. MB: Does the DSDL not work with the example we have here? MB: I see why using instance identifiers may be problematic, I do not see why the nested encoding would be problematic since you have all the context. LL: How does this work with access control? AB: I believe NACM would need to be modified to check parameters that identify where an action belongs. It is easier for the nested solution. JS: Does this require changes to NACM? MB: The data model allows to set this, but the text in the procedures needs an update. MB: Action to look into the details of the NACM update. JS: What about notifications associated to data nodes? BL: No indication that somebody seriously wants this. AB: From a YANG point of view, it seems strange to do this for actions but not for notifications. MB: I agree with AB. LL: Are the access control arguments valid for notifications as well? KW: How is the list instance identified? MB: This is in the example, see the name leaf of the server element. Proposal: Use the nested encoding but remove the data wrapper. Open Y36 again and ask for proposals how to encode notifications associated with data nodes. * Y57 unique leaf-list LL: If we have such a leaf-list and it is ordered by system, it seems impossible to insert after a certain position. BL: Yes. AB: An insert after is always an error on a system ordered list. LL: Seems to be OK. I support this change. BL: Q1 - go with A1a? AB: A single leaf-list value is often not interesting, usually it is the whole list. KW: Do we need to solve this at all? Where does this pop up? LL: An example is an AS path where AS numbers can repeat. BL: We have a number of examples in proprietary data models. BL: Q2 - go with A2a? BL: Q3 - go with A3a? MB: What do you mean with addressing? MB: Can you also delete by position? Would that not be a solution? BL: Prefer to delete just one. MB: I agree with Andy. The way we handle leaf-list today makes this somewhat awkward. MB: If we add this, then the way we do thinks today becomes more a pain. AB: The way NC works today is that only one instance is deleted at time. MB: So this means A3a. AB: Yes. BL: Q4 - go with A4b? AB: Do we need a YANG substatement to say whether a leaf-list allows duplicates? BL: Yes. MB: How would you move say the second a somewhere else? BL: With position, you can remove the second a. MB: For moving, you have to specify two positions (current, new). BL: A move operation is currently not part of the proposal. BL: Do we need a move operation? JS: Does all of this only apply to ordered by user lists? BL: Some operations may require position and thus ordered by user lists, but others don't. LL: Can we simplify this? Does it make sense to edit system ordered lists? AB: I think it makes sense to restrict this to user ordered lists. MB: Why would we make it illegal to have duplicates in system ordered leaf-lists? LL: We are talking about different collections, lists and sets. LL: Perhaps we can even make this leaf-list and leaf-set. MB: Would the set have an order? BL: We have use cases for unique ordered lists. LL: You can use a must statement to make the list elements unique if need be. MB: We need to be compatible with YANG 1.0. MB: If an ordered-by user leaf list is moved to 1.1, then it means something else? AB: I do not want to introduce any changes unless absolutely necessary. We should not change silently how a leaf-list works. MB: Having the same YANG statement mean different things in two versions of YANG is to be avoided. BL: Unless you use the new keyword, everything works as it was before. MB: I rather add a new substatement than changing the semantics of existing statements. BL: A5 MB: Yes. KW: Some system ordered lists tend to be stable. MB: We need to be careful what happens with position if access control is applied. BL: I believe it is the same as why insert is not allowed on system ordered since there is no guarantee that the order is stable. KW: If I do a get-config followed by an edit-config on a single session, is the order not predictable? AB: The RFC is pretty clear that there is no guarantee that the order is stable. AB: An example is a balanced tree where a change of the tree can change the walk order significantly. KW: If the order could be assumed to be stable, position would work for at least a single session. MB: I am not sure why would use that. You can delete by value. BL: But for system ordered, you can have multiple values as well. LL: Leaf-lists in operational state will be system ordered and I can see that there might be non-unique values. BL: A6 BL: A7 AB: Does in this case position say find the second leaf-list element with the given value? BL: I have not thought about this in this way. MB: I think it should be the absolute position. AB: If you provide a value, you want the second of those with the same value. MB: If the leaf-list is a string and you allow an empty string, you can't distinguish the two cases. AB: This is a good point. But I do not like the server ignoring a value if it is presented. I think this should actually be an error if the value is not at the position. MB: I agree. KW: Yes. BL: A9 AB: Agree. BL: A8 AB: This should be an error. This is an edit-config that is not a delete. MB: What about replace? BL: Move is difficult since it requires two positions. BL: We skip A8 because I do not understand it right now. BL: Do we need a move operation? BL: If nobody speaks up, we will not do a move operation. BL: I will take an action item to write a proposal and a summary of the changes that are needed. * Y56 UTF8 non-characters LL: Is this to be done at the protocol level or the YANG level? JS: I think we should say what is allowed in YANG MB: This is about the character set, not about the encoding (UTF8 or UTF16, which is a protocol issue). MB: I agree that we should define in this in YANG. Proposal: Adopt Y56-01. MB will work the concrete text with the help of LL. * Y42 a better model for configuration versus state data is needed JS: We may want to move this to closed since there is nothing to do until I2RS has decided what they need. Once this happens, we can reopen this issue or add more concrete issues (which may be a better choice). Proposal: Move Y42 to DEAD. * Y28 support default values in leaf-lists LL: What about additive defaults? BL: Do you have examples where this is useful instead of overriding? LL: I can create an example, but perhaps additive defaults get complicated. BL: My feeling is that Andy's always replace behavior is simple to understand. JS: Adopt Y28-02? MB: Yes AB: Yes LL: OK Proposal: Adopt Y28-02. * Y13 allow multiple inheritance for identities AB: Is this an OR or an AND if I have multiple bases? MB: Y13-01 says AND. AB: If in the example the base would be non-commercial, only CC-BY-NC-SA would be valid. MB: We probably want multiple bases in identityrefs. But then why would it be AND and not OR? AB: I am not sure how this impacts my implementation yet. MB: You can get an OR by using a union type of multiple identityrefs. JS: Seems we go with Y13-01. Proposal: Adopt Y13-01. --zhXaljGHf11kAtnf-- From nobody Wed Nov 5 05:30:11 2014 Return-Path: X-Original-To: netmod@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: netmod@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id D704F1A88C4 for ; Wed, 5 Nov 2014 05:30:10 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.144 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.144 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, HELO_EQ_DE=0.35, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, RP_MATCHES_RCVD=-0.594] autolearn=ham Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id qvasOCYW9Fel for ; Wed, 5 Nov 2014 05:30:08 -0800 (PST) Received: from atlas3.jacobs-university.de (atlas3.jacobs-university.de [212.201.44.18]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher AECDH-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 7696E1A88BE for ; Wed, 5 Nov 2014 05:30:08 -0800 (PST) Received: from localhost (demetrius5.irc-it.jacobs-university.de [10.70.0.222]) by atlas3.jacobs-university.de (Postfix) with ESMTP id 48C90FF9 for ; Wed, 5 Nov 2014 14:30:07 +0100 (CET) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at jacobs-university.de Received: from atlas3.jacobs-university.de ([10.70.0.220]) by localhost (demetrius5.jacobs-university.de [10.70.0.222]) (amavisd-new, port 10030) with ESMTP id GqWuIAUeoycG for ; Wed, 5 Nov 2014 14:29:52 +0100 (CET) Received: from hermes.jacobs-university.de (hermes.jacobs-university.de [212.201.44.23]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (Client CN "hermes.jacobs-university.de", Issuer "Jacobs University CA - G01" (verified OK)) by atlas3.jacobs-university.de (Postfix) with ESMTPS for ; Wed, 5 Nov 2014 14:30:06 +0100 (CET) Received: from localhost (demetrius3.jacobs-university.de [212.201.44.48]) by hermes.jacobs-university.de (Postfix) with ESMTP id DF13220038 for ; Wed, 5 Nov 2014 14:30:05 +0100 (CET) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at jacobs-university.de Received: from hermes.jacobs-university.de ([212.201.44.23]) by localhost (demetrius3.jacobs-university.de [212.201.44.32]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id q95b1C8XfrQx; Wed, 5 Nov 2014 14:30:04 +0100 (CET) Received: from elstar.local (elstar.jacobs.jacobs-university.de [10.50.231.133]) by hermes.jacobs-university.de (Postfix) with ESMTP id E1B3020035; Wed, 5 Nov 2014 14:30:03 +0100 (CET) Received: by elstar.local (Postfix, from userid 501) id D6E3E2F45114; Wed, 5 Nov 2014 14:30:03 +0100 (CET) Date: Wed, 5 Nov 2014 14:30:03 +0100 From: Juergen Schoenwaelder To: netmod@ietf.org Message-ID: <20141105133003.GB23832@elstar.local> Mail-Followup-To: netmod@ietf.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="IiVenqGWf+H9Y6IX" Content-Disposition: inline User-Agent: Mutt/1.4.2.3i Archived-At: http://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/netmod/imQTk202LDUH6MasK2lNvl28-M4 Subject: [netmod] minutes of the inofficial NETMOD 2014-10-29 virtual interim meeting X-BeenThere: netmod@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list Reply-To: Juergen Schoenwaelder List-Id: NETMOD WG list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 05 Nov 2014 13:30:11 -0000 --IiVenqGWf+H9Y6IX Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline Hi, attached are the minutes of the inofficial 2014-10-29 virtual interim meeting. Please let me know if something needs fixing. You can find all the virtual interim meeting minutes next to the YANG 1.1 issue list in the NETMOD WG subversion repository: http://svn.tools.ietf.org/svn/wg/netmod/yang-1.1/ /js -- Juergen Schoenwaelder Jacobs University Bremen gGmbH Phone: +49 421 200 3587 Campus Ring 1, 28759 Bremen, Germany Fax: +49 421 200 3103 --IiVenqGWf+H9Y6IX Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: attachment; filename="netmod-2014-10-29-minutes.txt" ============================================================= NETCONF Data Modeling Language WG (netmod) 7th YANG 1.1 *Inofficial* Virtual Interim Wednesday, October 29, 2014, 16:00-18:00 CET Minutes Juergen Schoenwaelder ============================================================= * Participants - JS = Juergen Schoenwaelder - AB = Andy Biermann - LL = Lada Lhotka - MB = Martin Bjorklund - BL = Balazs Lengyel - BC = Benoit Claise - DB = Dean Bogdanovic - TN = Tom Nadeau - AC = Aseem Choudhary * Conformance MB: A server never can implement two versions of a module. MB: A server can only advertise one version of a specific module. BL: Can we make this a statement in the RFC? AB: If several modules import from a typedef module at different revisions? MB: Import by revision as it is defined does not really work, it is not a minimum revision AB: Looking at section 4 of draft-bierman-netmod-yang-conformance-04.txt: AB: Conformance is based on a module set, not on a module AB: Import has not conformance semantics MB: If you augment /system, does this mean you have to implement the module that defines /system? AB: We have not really defined conformance for NP-containers. MB: A solution needs to take care of this. JS: If module T defines a typedef t which is imported by data model B and T gets updated and you want to implement C requiring the new revision, is it feasible to assume that all code gets updated in case t has changed? AB: This is how things work with header files. MB: I agree. BL: But will the human understand this? JS: This is particular important for servers that may not be monolithic. MB: If a server has to advertise the specific version imported by a module implementation, then we get a rather complex dependency graph. AB: We need to find a solution that is simple to understand. AB: We would need to change what import by revision means. There seems to be agreement that the old import-by-revision is not working. MB: We need import-by-minimum-revision (with a new syntax). JS: Does this solve all our problems? BL: Not really, modules can still be a different revisions. MB: If we import-by-minimum-revision and the rule that a server can only have one version of a module, then the server needs to find the proper revision to announce. LL: Need to have a way to distinguish between "importing typedefs only" or "importing NP container only". AB: In New York, we said that we do not advertised modules that are there only for typedefs or structure. JS: What about the augment /system case? MB: The module will be advertised, but there is data attached to it indicating whether the server claims conformance to the module or not. MB: I like the proposed RPCs to figure out which identities are used. There seems to be agreement to move to import-by-min-revision. AB: We should recommend to separate definitions of reusable components from data node definitions. MB: This should go into the guidelines draft. MB: Do we still need this rule if we have the conformance flag? BL: I still think we should encourage separation in the guidelines. MB: At least something to consider. LL: But this might also apply to feature and it is not practical to separate them out. MB: The guideline is that this should be carefully considered by the module designer. MB: I understand get-allowed-identities, I am not sure about get-allowed-leafrefs. AB: There can be cases where not all possible leafref values can be used. MB: But does this not apply to all leafs? JS: I really love TAB expansions so this sounds useful. MB: Yes for any leaf. JS: Yes, but we might also go overboard with this. AB: I think a server is required to implement all enums, everything in a range, etc. MB: Perhaps leafrefs are special in that case, perhaps also instance identifiers. AB: Shall we drop get-allowed-leafrefs? MB: Or expand it? I need to think about this. LL: Do more with formal constraints like must statements? AB: Makes my code run slower. BL: We have seen the same but might be an implementation issue. LL: My proposal would be to extend the syntax of the path expression of the instance identifier. LL: Why was the path statement restricted? AB: It is supposed to identify a node, not more. LL: I have seen cases where you have to point to multiple places and unions are not good for this. MB: Why? AB: This is problematic is a leaf-ref has a value that is valid in multiple branches of the union. MB: You could use a choice and that solves the problem. No clear view yet what to do about get-allowed-leafrefs. MB: If we have a YANG library module, should module announcements go here? JS: The ietf-yang-library is currently in draft-ietf-netconf-restconf-03 - should this move to a different document? MB: The conformance material should probably all be separated out of YANG 1.1 and the ietf-yang-library would then move into the conformance document. AB: The COMI draft is already using ietf-yang-library. Proposal: There seems to be agreement that import-by-revision does not work and that an import-by-min-revision would work better. If the additional assumption can be made that a server always implements only a single revision of a data model, then it seems most problems are solved. It is however unclear whether that assumption can be made. It was suggested that all conformance related material including associated data models should be factored out into a separate document, likely incorporating material from the ietf-yang-library (current in a NETCONF document). While it seems useful to have get-allowed-identities, it is unclear whether get-allowed-leafrefs (and ultimately get-allowed-values) is the right way to go. This may go well beyond the goals of the YANG 1.1 mission and it can effectively be done even today by just writing another data model. * Module Advertisement MB: The idea was that submodules are not advertised in the hello, you can fetch them separately and cache them. AB: Is the cached module set only YANG 1.1 modules? MB: Yes, for backwards compatibility. JS: All YANG 1.0 should be able for on demand retrieval so a YANG 1.1 implementation can always pull and cache the complete module set. --IiVenqGWf+H9Y6IX-- From nobody Wed Nov 5 05:42:42 2014 Return-Path: X-Original-To: netmod@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: netmod@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6D0BD1A88FA for ; Wed, 5 Nov 2014 05:42:40 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.144 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.144 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, HELO_EQ_DE=0.35, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, RP_MATCHES_RCVD=-0.594] autolearn=ham Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 5IyAsZ9ozcIM for ; Wed, 5 Nov 2014 05:42:38 -0800 (PST) Received: from atlas3.jacobs-university.de (atlas3.jacobs-university.de [212.201.44.18]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher AECDH-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 951701A1B38 for ; Wed, 5 Nov 2014 05:42:38 -0800 (PST) Received: from localhost (demetrius5.irc-it.jacobs-university.de [10.70.0.222]) by atlas3.jacobs-university.de (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6968F1005 for ; Wed, 5 Nov 2014 14:42:37 +0100 (CET) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at jacobs-university.de Received: from atlas3.jacobs-university.de ([10.70.0.220]) by localhost (demetrius5.jacobs-university.de [10.70.0.222]) (amavisd-new, port 10030) with ESMTP id z-shSAiG6nfb for ; Wed, 5 Nov 2014 14:42:23 +0100 (CET) Received: from hermes.jacobs-university.de (hermes.jacobs-university.de [212.201.44.23]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (Client CN "hermes.jacobs-university.de", Issuer "Jacobs University CA - G01" (verified OK)) by atlas3.jacobs-university.de (Postfix) with ESMTPS for ; Wed, 5 Nov 2014 14:42:36 +0100 (CET) Received: from localhost (demetrius2.jacobs-university.de [212.201.44.47]) by hermes.jacobs-university.de (Postfix) with ESMTP id B9E8320038 for ; Wed, 5 Nov 2014 14:42:36 +0100 (CET) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at jacobs-university.de Received: from hermes.jacobs-university.de ([212.201.44.23]) by localhost (demetrius2.jacobs-university.de [212.201.44.32]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id HA1ydJrR03Vb; Wed, 5 Nov 2014 14:41:15 +0100 (CET) Received: from elstar.local (elstar.jacobs.jacobs-university.de [10.50.231.133]) by hermes.jacobs-university.de (Postfix) with ESMTP id 00F6E20035; Wed, 5 Nov 2014 14:42:35 +0100 (CET) Received: by elstar.local (Postfix, from userid 501) id D15A62F451A1; Wed, 5 Nov 2014 14:42:35 +0100 (CET) Date: Wed, 5 Nov 2014 14:42:35 +0100 From: Juergen Schoenwaelder To: netmod@ietf.org Message-ID: <20141105134235.GA23922@elstar.local> Mail-Followup-To: netmod@ietf.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline User-Agent: Mutt/1.4.2.3i Archived-At: http://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/netmod/n-rWpyTmi7hMp7nd92eJYUy0YJs Subject: [netmod] yang 1.1 status summary X-BeenThere: netmod@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list Reply-To: Juergen Schoenwaelder List-Id: NETMOD WG list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 05 Nov 2014 13:42:40 -0000 Hi, here is a quick status summary. At this point in time, the situation looks as follows: | Status | Description | Count | |--------+----------------------------------------+-------| | NEW | new issue | 0 | | DEAD | issue has been rejected | 24 | | OPEN | open to discuss | 11 | | VRFY | proposal to verify on the list | 6 | | EDIT | waiting for Martin to do the edits | 6 | | REVIEW | waiting for the WG to review the edits | 11 | | DONE | review has completed | 0 | |--------+----------------------------------------+-------| I will send additional emails shortly to verify some of the resolution proposals coming out of the recent virtual interim meetings on the mailing list (and hopefully this moves some more issues from VRFY to EDIT). /js -- Juergen Schoenwaelder Jacobs University Bremen gGmbH Phone: +49 421 200 3587 Campus Ring 1, 28759 Bremen, Germany Fax: +49 421 200 3103 From nobody Wed Nov 5 05:57:02 2014 Return-Path: X-Original-To: netmod@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: netmod@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 836101A8909; Wed, 5 Nov 2014 05:57:00 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.144 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.144 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, HELO_EQ_DE=0.35, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, RP_MATCHES_RCVD=-0.594] autolearn=ham Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id KUEG9vPwkERf; Wed, 5 Nov 2014 05:56:59 -0800 (PST) Received: from atlas3.jacobs-university.de (atlas3.jacobs-university.de [212.201.44.18]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher AECDH-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 4817A1A010A; Wed, 5 Nov 2014 05:56:59 -0800 (PST) Received: from localhost (demetrius5.irc-it.jacobs-university.de [10.70.0.222]) by atlas3.jacobs-university.de (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0E462FDD; Wed, 5 Nov 2014 14:56:58 +0100 (CET) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at jacobs-university.de Received: from atlas3.jacobs-university.de ([10.70.0.220]) by localhost (demetrius5.jacobs-university.de [10.70.0.222]) (amavisd-new, port 10030) with ESMTP id tjehCuQGcp2A; Wed, 5 Nov 2014 14:56:43 +0100 (CET) Received: from hermes.jacobs-university.de (hermes.jacobs-university.de [212.201.44.23]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (Client CN "hermes.jacobs-university.de", Issuer "Jacobs University CA - G01" (verified OK)) by atlas3.jacobs-university.de (Postfix) with ESMTPS; Wed, 5 Nov 2014 14:56:57 +0100 (CET) Received: from localhost (demetrius1.jacobs-university.de [212.201.44.46]) by hermes.jacobs-university.de (Postfix) with ESMTP id 60A7920038; Wed, 5 Nov 2014 14:56:57 +0100 (CET) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at jacobs-university.de Received: from hermes.jacobs-university.de ([212.201.44.23]) by localhost (demetrius1.jacobs-university.de [212.201.44.32]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id f-xhLdMGk6zB; Wed, 5 Nov 2014 14:56:56 +0100 (CET) Received: from elstar.local (elstar.jacobs.jacobs-university.de [10.50.231.133]) by hermes.jacobs-university.de (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8C28720035; Wed, 5 Nov 2014 14:56:56 +0100 (CET) Received: by elstar.local (Postfix, from userid 501) id 64E5A2F4524F; Wed, 5 Nov 2014 14:56:55 +0100 (CET) Date: Wed, 5 Nov 2014 14:56:55 +0100 From: Juergen Schoenwaelder To: iesg-secretary@ietf.org Message-ID: <20141105135655.GA24095@elstar.local> Mail-Followup-To: iesg-secretary@ietf.org, netmod@ietf.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline User-Agent: Mutt/1.4.2.3i Archived-At: http://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/netmod/eCFpSpxpTD9gZ52qBP07GmYhpKQ Cc: netmod@ietf.org Subject: [netmod] NETMOD WG Virtual Interim Meetings X-BeenThere: netmod@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list Reply-To: Juergen Schoenwaelder List-Id: NETMOD WG list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 05 Nov 2014 13:57:00 -0000 The NETMOD WG will hold a series of bi-weekly virtual interim meetings. The meetings will take place on Wednesdays between 16:00 and 18:00 CEST. The first meeting will be on Wednesday 2014-11-19. The agenda is to iterate over the YANG 1.1 issues list with the goal to close open issues until all issues have been resolved. The virtual interim meetings will continue bi-weekly until either all issues have been closed or 2015-03-18 has passed (and we will skip the last day of the year). In other words, please allocate a virtual interim meeting and a suitable webex for the following Wednesdays: 2014-11-19 2014-12-03 2014-12-17 2015-01-07 2015-01-21 2015-02-04 2015-02-18 2015-03-04 2015-03-18 Thanks. /js -- Juergen Schoenwaelder Jacobs University Bremen gGmbH Phone: +49 421 200 3587 Campus Ring 1, 28759 Bremen, Germany Fax: +49 421 200 3103 From nobody Wed Nov 5 06:06:48 2014 Return-Path: X-Original-To: netmod@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: netmod@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9892C1A891D for ; Wed, 5 Nov 2014 06:06:45 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.144 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.144 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, HELO_EQ_DE=0.35, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, RP_MATCHES_RCVD=-0.594] autolearn=ham Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id kjEE52IenaRP for ; Wed, 5 Nov 2014 06:06:43 -0800 (PST) Received: from atlas3.jacobs-university.de (atlas3.jacobs-university.de [212.201.44.18]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher AECDH-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 73B151A8916 for ; Wed, 5 Nov 2014 06:06:43 -0800 (PST) Received: from localhost (demetrius5.irc-it.jacobs-university.de [10.70.0.222]) by atlas3.jacobs-university.de (Postfix) with ESMTP id 484B9E62 for ; Wed, 5 Nov 2014 15:06:42 +0100 (CET) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at jacobs-university.de Received: from atlas3.jacobs-university.de ([10.70.0.220]) by localhost (demetrius5.jacobs-university.de [10.70.0.222]) (amavisd-new, port 10030) with ESMTP id U9toHayxMZle for ; Wed, 5 Nov 2014 15:06:27 +0100 (CET) Received: from hermes.jacobs-university.de (hermes.jacobs-university.de [212.201.44.23]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (Client CN "hermes.jacobs-university.de", Issuer "Jacobs University CA - G01" (verified OK)) by atlas3.jacobs-university.de (Postfix) with ESMTPS for ; Wed, 5 Nov 2014 15:06:41 +0100 (CET) Received: from localhost (demetrius4.jacobs-university.de [212.201.44.49]) by hermes.jacobs-university.de (Postfix) with ESMTP id 862BD2003B for ; Wed, 5 Nov 2014 15:06:41 +0100 (CET) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at jacobs-university.de Received: from hermes.jacobs-university.de ([212.201.44.23]) by localhost (demetrius4.jacobs-university.de [212.201.44.32]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id Z2X-Jf4Td2JL; Wed, 5 Nov 2014 15:06:41 +0100 (CET) Received: from elstar.local (elstar.jacobs.jacobs-university.de [10.50.231.133]) by hermes.jacobs-university.de (Postfix) with ESMTP id BC4A920035; Wed, 5 Nov 2014 15:06:40 +0100 (CET) Received: by elstar.local (Postfix, from userid 501) id 00D2D2F453DB; Wed, 5 Nov 2014 15:06:39 +0100 (CET) Date: Wed, 5 Nov 2014 15:06:39 +0100 From: Juergen Schoenwaelder To: netmod@ietf.org Message-ID: <20141105140639.GA24235@elstar.local> Mail-Followup-To: netmod@ietf.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline User-Agent: Mutt/1.4.2.3i Archived-At: http://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/netmod/O22ZfQiER4t2q_BFH_NjDRoT6_E Subject: [netmod] VRFY :Y10: allow restrictions on enumerations X-BeenThere: netmod@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list Reply-To: Juergen Schoenwaelder List-Id: NETMOD WG list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 05 Nov 2014 14:06:46 -0000 The 2014-10-01 virtual interim meeting proposal is to adopt Y10-01. Please speak up by Wednesday 2014-11-12 if you disagree with this proposal. For more details, see the issues list and the virtual interim meeting minutes available here: http://svn.tools.ietf.org/svn/wg/netmod/yang-1.1/ /js -- Juergen Schoenwaelder Jacobs University Bremen gGmbH Phone: +49 421 200 3587 Campus Ring 1, 28759 Bremen, Germany Fax: +49 421 200 3103 From nobody Wed Nov 5 06:08:46 2014 Return-Path: X-Original-To: netmod@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: netmod@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6F8B61A010A for ; Wed, 5 Nov 2014 06:08:38 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.144 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.144 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, HELO_EQ_DE=0.35, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, RP_MATCHES_RCVD=-0.594] autolearn=ham Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id fQHMzjpIxu3v for ; Wed, 5 Nov 2014 06:08:27 -0800 (PST) Received: from atlas3.jacobs-university.de (atlas3.jacobs-university.de [212.201.44.18]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher AECDH-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 8410C1A890A for ; Wed, 5 Nov 2014 06:08:20 -0800 (PST) Received: from localhost (demetrius5.irc-it.jacobs-university.de [10.70.0.222]) by atlas3.jacobs-university.de (Postfix) with ESMTP id C569FFFA for ; Wed, 5 Nov 2014 15:08:18 +0100 (CET) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at jacobs-university.de Received: from atlas3.jacobs-university.de ([10.70.0.220]) by localhost (demetrius5.jacobs-university.de [10.70.0.222]) (amavisd-new, port 10030) with ESMTP id cYFJnotP1spn for ; Wed, 5 Nov 2014 15:08:04 +0100 (CET) Received: from hermes.jacobs-university.de (hermes.jacobs-university.de [212.201.44.23]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (Client CN "hermes.jacobs-university.de", Issuer "Jacobs University CA - G01" (verified OK)) by atlas3.jacobs-university.de (Postfix) with ESMTPS for ; Wed, 5 Nov 2014 15:08:18 +0100 (CET) Received: from localhost (demetrius2.jacobs-university.de [212.201.44.47]) by hermes.jacobs-university.de (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0BA9620035 for ; Wed, 5 Nov 2014 15:08:18 +0100 (CET) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at jacobs-university.de Received: from hermes.jacobs-university.de ([212.201.44.23]) by localhost (demetrius2.jacobs-university.de [212.201.44.32]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 5wsRyHI2VMg9; Wed, 5 Nov 2014 15:06:56 +0100 (CET) Received: from elstar.local (elstar.jacobs.jacobs-university.de [10.50.231.133]) by hermes.jacobs-university.de (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3BA6E20038; Wed, 5 Nov 2014 15:08:17 +0100 (CET) Received: by elstar.local (Postfix, from userid 501) id 309CE2F45419; Wed, 5 Nov 2014 15:08:17 +0100 (CET) Date: Wed, 5 Nov 2014 15:08:17 +0100 From: Juergen Schoenwaelder To: netmod@ietf.org Message-ID: <20141105140817.GA24310@elstar.local> Mail-Followup-To: netmod@ietf.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline User-Agent: Mutt/1.4.2.3i Archived-At: http://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/netmod/zfxeMFZiM8OtL0pWl7_gC8hEUzQ Subject: [netmod] VRFY :Y13: allow multiple inheritance for identities X-BeenThere: netmod@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list Reply-To: Juergen Schoenwaelder List-Id: NETMOD WG list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 05 Nov 2014 14:08:42 -0000 The 2014-10-15 virtual interim meeting proposal is to adopt Y13-01. Please speak up by Wednesday 2014-11-12 if you disagree with this proposal. For more details, see the issues list and the virtual interim meeting minutes available here: http://svn.tools.ietf.org/svn/wg/netmod/yang-1.1/ /js -- Juergen Schoenwaelder Jacobs University Bremen gGmbH Phone: +49 421 200 3587 Campus Ring 1, 28759 Bremen, Germany Fax: +49 421 200 3103 From nobody Wed Nov 5 06:09:12 2014 Return-Path: X-Original-To: netmod@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: netmod@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 56BD21A8913 for ; Wed, 5 Nov 2014 06:09:11 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.144 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.144 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, HELO_EQ_DE=0.35, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, RP_MATCHES_RCVD=-0.594] autolearn=ham Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id bELi0vOeOtfy for ; Wed, 5 Nov 2014 06:09:10 -0800 (PST) Received: from atlas3.jacobs-university.de (atlas3.jacobs-university.de [212.201.44.18]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher AECDH-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id DA8921A1B57 for ; Wed, 5 Nov 2014 06:09:09 -0800 (PST) Received: from localhost (demetrius5.irc-it.jacobs-university.de [10.70.0.222]) by atlas3.jacobs-university.de (Postfix) with ESMTP id AAC3AFFA for ; Wed, 5 Nov 2014 15:09:08 +0100 (CET) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at jacobs-university.de Received: from atlas3.jacobs-university.de ([10.70.0.220]) by localhost (demetrius5.jacobs-university.de [10.70.0.222]) (amavisd-new, port 10030) with ESMTP id dTdwF2uq2VfU for ; Wed, 5 Nov 2014 15:08:53 +0100 (CET) Received: from hermes.jacobs-university.de (hermes.jacobs-university.de [212.201.44.23]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (Client CN "hermes.jacobs-university.de", Issuer "Jacobs University CA - G01" (verified OK)) by atlas3.jacobs-university.de (Postfix) with ESMTPS for ; Wed, 5 Nov 2014 15:09:07 +0100 (CET) Received: from localhost (demetrius4.jacobs-university.de [212.201.44.49]) by hermes.jacobs-university.de (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8BF4620035 for ; Wed, 5 Nov 2014 15:09:07 +0100 (CET) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at jacobs-university.de Received: from hermes.jacobs-university.de ([212.201.44.23]) by localhost (demetrius4.jacobs-university.de [212.201.44.32]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id zMlzlUC8ZUgq; Wed, 5 Nov 2014 15:09:07 +0100 (CET) Received: from elstar.local (elstar.jacobs.jacobs-university.de [10.50.231.133]) by hermes.jacobs-university.de (Postfix) with ESMTP id D415A20038; Wed, 5 Nov 2014 15:09:06 +0100 (CET) Received: by elstar.local (Postfix, from userid 501) id CF8452F4542B; Wed, 5 Nov 2014 15:09:06 +0100 (CET) Date: Wed, 5 Nov 2014 15:09:06 +0100 From: Juergen Schoenwaelder To: netmod@ietf.org Message-ID: <20141105140906.GB24310@elstar.local> Mail-Followup-To: netmod@ietf.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline User-Agent: Mutt/1.4.2.3i Archived-At: http://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/netmod/BrNWXNS4KAFnPdg2GMCB3Sbl68U Subject: [netmod] VRFY :Y28: support default values in leaf-lists X-BeenThere: netmod@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list Reply-To: Juergen Schoenwaelder List-Id: NETMOD WG list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 05 Nov 2014 14:09:11 -0000 The 2014-10-15 virtual interim meeting proposal is to adopt Y28-02. Please speak up by Wednesday 2014-11-12 if you disagree with this proposal. For more details, see the issues list and the virtual interim meeting minutes available here: http://svn.tools.ietf.org/svn/wg/netmod/yang-1.1/ /js -- Juergen Schoenwaelder Jacobs University Bremen gGmbH Phone: +49 421 200 3587 Campus Ring 1, 28759 Bremen, Germany Fax: +49 421 200 3103 From nobody Wed Nov 5 06:10:28 2014 Return-Path: X-Original-To: netmod@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: netmod@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0A8951A8913 for ; Wed, 5 Nov 2014 06:10:27 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.144 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.144 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, HELO_EQ_DE=0.35, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, RP_MATCHES_RCVD=-0.594] autolearn=ham Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id jRCbQlbm88E5 for ; Wed, 5 Nov 2014 06:10:25 -0800 (PST) Received: from atlas3.jacobs-university.de (atlas3.jacobs-university.de [212.201.44.18]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher AECDH-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 8BC3B1A1B57 for ; Wed, 5 Nov 2014 06:10:25 -0800 (PST) Received: from localhost (demetrius5.irc-it.jacobs-university.de [10.70.0.222]) by atlas3.jacobs-university.de (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5F3BC87A for ; Wed, 5 Nov 2014 15:10:24 +0100 (CET) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at jacobs-university.de Received: from atlas3.jacobs-university.de ([10.70.0.220]) by localhost (demetrius5.jacobs-university.de [10.70.0.222]) (amavisd-new, port 10030) with ESMTP id pe09N-6Dy_Ba for ; Wed, 5 Nov 2014 15:10:09 +0100 (CET) Received: from hermes.jacobs-university.de (hermes.jacobs-university.de [212.201.44.23]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (Client CN "hermes.jacobs-university.de", Issuer "Jacobs University CA - G01" (verified OK)) by atlas3.jacobs-university.de (Postfix) with ESMTPS for ; Wed, 5 Nov 2014 15:10:23 +0100 (CET) Received: from localhost (demetrius2.jacobs-university.de [212.201.44.47]) by hermes.jacobs-university.de (Postfix) with ESMTP id 84C082003A for ; Wed, 5 Nov 2014 15:10:23 +0100 (CET) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at jacobs-university.de Received: from hermes.jacobs-university.de ([212.201.44.23]) by localhost (demetrius2.jacobs-university.de [212.201.44.32]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 1laqQkTZJRdC; Wed, 5 Nov 2014 15:09:01 +0100 (CET) Received: from elstar.local (elstar.jacobs.jacobs-university.de [10.50.231.133]) by hermes.jacobs-university.de (Postfix) with ESMTP id C884C20038; Wed, 5 Nov 2014 15:10:22 +0100 (CET) Received: by elstar.local (Postfix, from userid 501) id BD4F82F45458; Wed, 5 Nov 2014 15:10:22 +0100 (CET) Date: Wed, 5 Nov 2014 15:10:22 +0100 From: Juergen Schoenwaelder To: netmod@ietf.org Message-ID: <20141105141022.GC24310@elstar.local> Mail-Followup-To: netmod@ietf.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline User-Agent: Mutt/1.4.2.3i Archived-At: http://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/netmod/2aQnMquA-9-ussY6IWBakpabiw0 Subject: [netmod] VRFY :Y42: a better model for configuration versus state data is needed X-BeenThere: netmod@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list Reply-To: Juergen Schoenwaelder List-Id: NETMOD WG list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 05 Nov 2014 14:10:27 -0000 The 2014-10-15 virtual interim meeting proposal is to move Y42 to DEAD since there is nothing actionable to do until I2RS has decided what they need; once this happens, we can reopen this issue or add more concrete issues (which may be a better choice). Please speak up by Wednesday 2014-11-12 if you disagree with this proposal. For more details, see the issues list and the virtual interim meeting minutes available here: http://svn.tools.ietf.org/svn/wg/netmod/yang-1.1/ /js -- Juergen Schoenwaelder Jacobs University Bremen gGmbH Phone: +49 421 200 3587 Campus Ring 1, 28759 Bremen, Germany Fax: +49 421 200 3103 From nobody Wed Nov 5 06:11:42 2014 Return-Path: X-Original-To: netmod@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: netmod@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6E7791A8913 for ; Wed, 5 Nov 2014 06:11:40 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.144 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.144 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, HELO_EQ_DE=0.35, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, RP_MATCHES_RCVD=-0.594] autolearn=ham Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id Dkpg86RcciuJ for ; Wed, 5 Nov 2014 06:11:37 -0800 (PST) Received: from atlas3.jacobs-university.de (atlas3.jacobs-university.de [212.201.44.18]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher AECDH-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 7B6781A8909 for ; Wed, 5 Nov 2014 06:11:37 -0800 (PST) Received: from localhost (demetrius5.irc-it.jacobs-university.de [10.70.0.222]) by atlas3.jacobs-university.de (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5023D8D1 for ; Wed, 5 Nov 2014 15:11:36 +0100 (CET) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at jacobs-university.de Received: from atlas3.jacobs-university.de ([10.70.0.220]) by localhost (demetrius5.jacobs-university.de [10.70.0.222]) (amavisd-new, port 10030) with ESMTP id JFm-YD_n0lzF for ; Wed, 5 Nov 2014 15:11:21 +0100 (CET) Received: from hermes.jacobs-university.de (hermes.jacobs-university.de [212.201.44.23]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (Client CN "hermes.jacobs-university.de", Issuer "Jacobs University CA - G01" (verified OK)) by atlas3.jacobs-university.de (Postfix) with ESMTPS for ; Wed, 5 Nov 2014 15:11:35 +0100 (CET) Received: from localhost (demetrius4.jacobs-university.de [212.201.44.49]) by hermes.jacobs-university.de (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9BEC62003A for ; Wed, 5 Nov 2014 15:11:35 +0100 (CET) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at jacobs-university.de Received: from hermes.jacobs-university.de ([212.201.44.23]) by localhost (demetrius4.jacobs-university.de [212.201.44.32]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id sYqj6-Ym5fTV; Wed, 5 Nov 2014 15:11:35 +0100 (CET) Received: from elstar.local (elstar.jacobs.jacobs-university.de [10.50.231.133]) by hermes.jacobs-university.de (Postfix) with ESMTP id E937A20035; Wed, 5 Nov 2014 15:11:34 +0100 (CET) Received: by elstar.local (Postfix, from userid 501) id DDFA02F45483; Wed, 5 Nov 2014 15:11:34 +0100 (CET) Date: Wed, 5 Nov 2014 15:11:34 +0100 From: Juergen Schoenwaelder To: netmod@ietf.org Message-ID: <20141105141134.GD24310@elstar.local> Mail-Followup-To: netmod@ietf.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline User-Agent: Mutt/1.4.2.3i Archived-At: http://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/netmod/vhpErPspoj1amvYOfsytKjoHHac Subject: [netmod] VRFY :Y56: UTF8 non-characters X-BeenThere: netmod@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list Reply-To: Juergen Schoenwaelder List-Id: NETMOD WG list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 05 Nov 2014 14:11:41 -0000 The 2014-10-15 virtual interim meeting proposal is to adopt Y56-01. Please speak up by Wednesday 2014-11-12 if you disagree with this proposal. For more details, see the issues list and the virtual interim meeting minutes available here: http://svn.tools.ietf.org/svn/wg/netmod/yang-1.1/ /js -- Juergen Schoenwaelder Jacobs University Bremen gGmbH Phone: +49 421 200 3587 Campus Ring 1, 28759 Bremen, Germany Fax: +49 421 200 3103 From nobody Wed Nov 5 06:14:09 2014 Return-Path: X-Original-To: netmod@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: netmod@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 744B71A8909 for ; Wed, 5 Nov 2014 06:14:07 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.144 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.144 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, HELO_EQ_DE=0.35, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, RP_MATCHES_RCVD=-0.594] autolearn=ham Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id N9A0Slfc-qCE for ; Wed, 5 Nov 2014 06:14:06 -0800 (PST) Received: from atlas3.jacobs-university.de (atlas3.jacobs-university.de [212.201.44.18]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher AECDH-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 218311A1B57 for ; Wed, 5 Nov 2014 06:14:06 -0800 (PST) Received: from localhost (demetrius5.irc-it.jacobs-university.de [10.70.0.222]) by atlas3.jacobs-university.de (Postfix) with ESMTP id E9DB18ED for ; Wed, 5 Nov 2014 15:14:04 +0100 (CET) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at jacobs-university.de Received: from atlas3.jacobs-university.de ([10.70.0.220]) by localhost (demetrius5.jacobs-university.de [10.70.0.222]) (amavisd-new, port 10030) with ESMTP id mtjN60Eagahz for ; Wed, 5 Nov 2014 15:13:50 +0100 (CET) Received: from hermes.jacobs-university.de (hermes.jacobs-university.de [212.201.44.23]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (Client CN "hermes.jacobs-university.de", Issuer "Jacobs University CA - G01" (verified OK)) by atlas3.jacobs-university.de (Postfix) with ESMTPS for ; Wed, 5 Nov 2014 15:14:04 +0100 (CET) Received: from localhost (demetrius2.jacobs-university.de [212.201.44.47]) by hermes.jacobs-university.de (Postfix) with ESMTP id 359B120035 for ; Wed, 5 Nov 2014 15:14:04 +0100 (CET) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at jacobs-university.de Received: from hermes.jacobs-university.de ([212.201.44.23]) by localhost (demetrius2.jacobs-university.de [212.201.44.32]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id XrMNAW4VJroi; Wed, 5 Nov 2014 15:12:42 +0100 (CET) Received: from elstar.local (elstar.jacobs.jacobs-university.de [10.50.231.133]) by hermes.jacobs-university.de (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7A12120038; Wed, 5 Nov 2014 15:14:03 +0100 (CET) Received: by elstar.local (Postfix, from userid 501) id 67ACE2F454B8; Wed, 5 Nov 2014 15:14:03 +0100 (CET) Date: Wed, 5 Nov 2014 15:14:03 +0100 From: Juergen Schoenwaelder To: netmod@ietf.org Message-ID: <20141105141403.GE24310@elstar.local> Mail-Followup-To: netmod@ietf.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline User-Agent: Mutt/1.4.2.3i Archived-At: http://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/netmod/jJ1qi4kiLBXINf-WocvMmwmazmc Subject: [netmod] VRFY :Y58: associate an actions with a data node X-BeenThere: netmod@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list Reply-To: Juergen Schoenwaelder List-Id: NETMOD WG list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 05 Nov 2014 14:14:07 -0000 The 2014-10-15 virtual interim meeting proposal is to use the encoding but to remove the data wrapper. In addition, issue Y36 should be opened again, asking for proposals how to encode notifications associated with data nodes. Please speak up by Wednesday 2014-11-12 if you disagree with this proposal. For more details, see the issues list and the virtual interim meeting minutes available here: http://svn.tools.ietf.org/svn/wg/netmod/yang-1.1/ /js -- Juergen Schoenwaelder Jacobs University Bremen gGmbH Phone: +49 421 200 3587 Campus Ring 1, 28759 Bremen, Germany Fax: +49 421 200 3103 From nobody Wed Nov 5 06:16:06 2014 Return-Path: X-Original-To: netmod@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: netmod@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id C49431A890E for ; Wed, 5 Nov 2014 06:16:04 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -7.494 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-7.494 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_HI=-5, RP_MATCHES_RCVD=-0.594] autolearn=ham Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id Bz9rGGnLfyGA for ; Wed, 5 Nov 2014 06:16:00 -0800 (PST) Received: from smtp-fr.alcatel-lucent.com (fr-hpida-esg-02.alcatel-lucent.com [135.245.210.21]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 8DEDC1A1B57 for ; Wed, 5 Nov 2014 06:16:00 -0800 (PST) Received: from us70uusmtp3.zam.alcatel-lucent.com (unknown [135.5.2.65]) by Websense Email Security Gateway with ESMTPS id C6AA7CDF887D2; Wed, 5 Nov 2014 14:15:53 +0000 (GMT) Received: from US70UWXCHHUB01.zam.alcatel-lucent.com (us70uwxchhub01.zam.alcatel-lucent.com [135.5.2.48]) by us70uusmtp3.zam.alcatel-lucent.com (GMO) with ESMTP id sA5EFqVw009461 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=AES128-SHA bits=128 verify=FAIL); Wed, 5 Nov 2014 09:15:54 -0500 Received: from US70TWXCHMBA11.zam.alcatel-lucent.com ([169.254.5.170]) by US70UWXCHHUB01.zam.alcatel-lucent.com ([135.5.2.48]) with mapi id 14.03.0195.001; Wed, 5 Nov 2014 09:15:52 -0500 From: "Sterne, Jason (Jason)" To: "Thomas D. Nadeau" , NETMOD Working Group Thread-Topic: [netmod] current IETF91 Netmod Preliminary Agenda Thread-Index: AQHP+E2MkbKjSuKLZ0WpBzijcWszA5xSFLpw Date: Wed, 5 Nov 2014 14:15:52 +0000 Message-ID: References: <0AC1F16A-67FA-477B-8F4E-9DE293D9C746@lucidvision.com> In-Reply-To: <0AC1F16A-67FA-477B-8F4E-9DE293D9C746@lucidvision.com> Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-originating-ip: [135.5.27.17] Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 MIME-Version: 1.0 Archived-At: http://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/netmod/lIWQjHHhGJLgm9UYh7vKNJJtUCM Cc: "netmod-chairs@tools.ietf.org" Subject: Re: [netmod] current IETF91 Netmod Preliminary Agenda X-BeenThere: netmod@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: NETMOD WG list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 05 Nov 2014 14:16:05 -0000 SGkgZ3V5cywNCg0KV2hlbiBJIHN1Z2dlc3RlZCB0aGUgIkRlc2lnbiBUZWFtIFVwZGF0ZSIgYWdl bmRhIGl0ZW0gSSBkaWRuJ3QgcmVhbGl6ZSB0aGVyZSB3ZXJlIHF1aXRlIHNvIG1hbnkgWUFORyBt b2RlbHMgb3V0IHRoZXJlLiAgIEhhdmluZyBhbnkgc29ydCBvZiB2ZXJiYWwgdXBkYXRlIGZvciB0 aGVzZSBpc24ndCBnb2luZyB0byBtYWtlIHNlbnNlIGdpdmVuIHRoZSBudW1iZXIgb2YgdGhlbS4g ICBXZSBzaG91bGQgcHJvYmFibHkgZHJvcCB0aGF0IGZyb20gdGhlIGFnZW5kYS4gICAgQXQgdGhp cyBwb2ludCBpdCBzZWVtcyB0aGF0IHBlb3BsZSB3aWxsIGhhdmUgdG8gZm9sbG93IHRoZSBtb2Rl bHMgdGhleSBhcmUgaW50ZXJlc3RlZCBpbiBpbiB0aGUgYXBwcm9wcmlhdGUgV0dzLg0KDQpKYXNv bg0KDQotLS0tLU9yaWdpbmFsIE1lc3NhZ2UtLS0tLQ0KRnJvbTogbmV0bW9kIFttYWlsdG86bmV0 bW9kLWJvdW5jZXNAaWV0Zi5vcmddIE9uIEJlaGFsZiBPZiBUaG9tYXMgRC4gTmFkZWF1DQpTZW50 OiBUdWVzZGF5LCBOb3ZlbWJlciAwNCwgMjAxNCAxMTozNiBBTQ0KVG86IE5FVE1PRCBXb3JraW5n IEdyb3VwDQpDYzogbmV0bW9kLWNoYWlyc0B0b29scy5pZXRmLm9yZw0KU3ViamVjdDogUmU6IFtu ZXRtb2RdIGN1cnJlbnQgSUVURjkxIE5ldG1vZCBQcmVsaW1pbmFyeSBBZ2VuZGENCg0KDQoJU29y cnkgZm9yIHJlcGx5aW5nIHRvIG15IG93biBwb3N0LCBidXQgSSBmb3Jnb3QgdG8gbWVudGlvbiB0 aGlzIGlzIGFuIGluaXRpYWwvZHJhZnQgYWdlbmRhLiBQbGVhc2UgY29tbWVudC9iYXNoIEFTQVAu DQoNCgktLVRvbQ0KDQoNCj4gT24gTm92IDQsIDIwMTQ6NDowMyBQTSwgYXQgNDowMyBQTSwgVGhv bWFzIEQuIE5hZGVhdSA8dG5hZGVhdUBsdWNpZHZpc2lvbi5jb20+IHdyb3RlOg0KPiANCj4gDQo+ IAlUaGlzIGlzIHRoZSBjdXJyZW50IGFnZW5kYSBJIGhhdmUgdG8tZGF0ZS4gQXJlIHRoZXJlIGFu eSBvdGhlciByZXF1ZXN0cyBmb3IgZGlzY3Vzc2lvbiBzbG90cz8NCj4gDQo+IAktLVRvbQ0KPiAN Cj4gDQo+IA0KPiAJUGVlciBNb3VudCBEaXNjdXNzaW9uL2RyYWZ0cyAJMTUgbWluIAlFcmljIFZv aXQgZXZvaXRAY2lzY28uY29tDQo+IAlodHRwOi8vZGF0YXRyYWNrZXIuaWV0Zi5vcmcvZG9jL2Ry YWZ0LXZvaXQtbmV0bW9kLXBlZXItbW91bnQtcmVxdWlyZW1lbnRzLw0KPiANCj4gCeKAnERlc2ln biBUZWFtc+KAnSB1cGRhdGUuICAJMTAgbWluCWphc29uLnN0ZXJuZUBhbGNhdGVsLWx1Y2VudC5j b20NCj4gDQo+IAkJbyAgIExpc3Qgb2YgYWxsIGtub3duIOKAnGRlc2lnbiB0ZWFtc+KAnSB0aGF0 IGFyZSB3b3JraW5nIG9uIA0KPiAJCQlZQU5HIG1vZGVscyAoZXNwZWNpYWxseSBvbmVzIHRoYXQg bWF5IGJlIAkJDQo+IAkJCXByb2dyZXNzaW5nIG91dHNpZGUgb2YgdGhlIElFVEYgbWFpbGluZyBs aXN0cykNCj4gCQkNCj4gCQlvICAgSWRlYWxseSBhIGJyaWVmIHN0YXR1cyB1cGRhdGUgZnJvbSBv bmUgb2YgdGhlIHByaW1hcnkgDQo+IAkJCWxlYWRlcnMvY29udHJpYnV0b3JzIChpLmUuIGEgZmV3 IGJ1bGxldCBwb2ludHMgLyAxLTIgbWludXRlcykgDQo+IAkJCWZvciBlYWNoIG9uZSAobm90IHRv IGRpc2N1c3MgdGhlIHRlY2huaWNhbCBkZXRhaWxzIG9mIHNwZWNpZmljIA0KPiAJCQltb2RlbHMg 4oCTIHRoYXQgY291bGQgYmUgb3RoZXIgYWdlbmRhIGl0ZW1zKQ0KPiANCj4gCVlBTkcgY29uZm9y bWFuY2UgaXNzdWVzLiAJMTAgbWluICBBbmR5IEJpZXJtYW4gQW5keSBCaWVybWFuIDxhbmR5QHl1 bWF3b3Jrcy5jb20+DQo+IAlodHRwOi8vd3d3LmlldGYub3JnL2lkL2RyYWZ0LWJpZXJtYW4tbmV0 bW9kLXlhbmctY29uZm9ybWFuY2UtMDQudHh0DQo+IA0KPiAJZHJhZnQtaWV0Zi1uZXRtb2Qtcm91 dGluZy1jZmctMTYJCTUJTGFkYSBMaG90a2EgbGhvdGthQG5pYy5jeg0KPiAJZHJhZnQtaWV0Zi1u ZXRtb2QteWFuZy1qc29uLTAxCQkJNQlMYWRhIExob3RrYSBsaG90a2FAbmljLmN6DQo+IAlkcmFm dC1saG90a2EtbmV0bW9kLXlhbmctbWV0YWRhdGEtMDAJCTUJTGFkYSBMaG90a2EgbGhvdGthQG5p Yy5jeg0KPiANCj4gDQo+IAlEYW5hIEJsYWlyIGRibGFpckBjaXNjby5jb20JCQ0KPiAJRGVhbiBC b2dkYW5vdmljIGRlYW5iQGp1bmlwZXIubmV0CQkxMAlBQ0wgWWFuZyBNb2RlbA0KPiANCj4gCU1h aGVzaCBKZXRoYW5hbmRhbmkgbWpldGhhbmFuZGFuaUBnbWFpbC5jb20gCTEwCUJGRCBZYW5nIE1v ZGVsDQo+IA0KPiANCj4gDQo+IAkNCj4gDQo+IA0KDQpfX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19f X19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fXw0KbmV0bW9kIG1haWxpbmcgbGlzdA0KbmV0bW9kQGlldGYu b3JnDQpodHRwczovL3d3dy5pZXRmLm9yZy9tYWlsbWFuL2xpc3RpbmZvL25ldG1vZA0K From nobody Wed Nov 5 06:18:15 2014 Return-Path: X-Original-To: netmod@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: netmod@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 364371A8914 for ; 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Nadeau" , "netmod@ietf.org" , "rtg-ads@tools.ietf.org" Thread-Topic: [netmod] IETF91 NETMOD agenda ? Thread-Index: AQHP+ISY9o+fzD3eUU6cqdjJyOjffpxSEygQ Date: Wed, 5 Nov 2014 14:18:04 +0000 Message-ID: References: <79054E89-2D09-4461-8D35-8F6FA025B71F@nic.cz> <43060BE7-53EA-4B9D-B778-2FED58C0D60C@lucidvision.com> <52AE09CB-D4AB-4421-BBA4-1D9C45EA6957@gmail.com> <54590195.3010903@cisco.com> <20141104224854.GA20782@elstar.local> <54595CEC.9010102@cisco.com> In-Reply-To: <54595CEC.9010102@cisco.com> Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-originating-ip: [135.5.27.17] Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 MIME-Version: 1.0 Archived-At: http://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/netmod/MgWhwfGWD-ibmLqMjVdx-5fH7i4 Subject: Re: [netmod] IETF91 NETMOD agenda ? 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X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.144 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.144 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, HELO_EQ_DE=0.35, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, RP_MATCHES_RCVD=-0.594] autolearn=ham Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id DaoqIH_kzSP2 for ; Wed, 5 Nov 2014 06:35:11 -0800 (PST) Received: from atlas3.jacobs-university.de (atlas3.jacobs-university.de [212.201.44.18]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher AECDH-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 9CD3B1A88FA for ; Wed, 5 Nov 2014 06:35:11 -0800 (PST) Received: from localhost (demetrius5.irc-it.jacobs-university.de [10.70.0.222]) by atlas3.jacobs-university.de (Postfix) with ESMTP id 70DA41002 for ; Wed, 5 Nov 2014 15:35:10 +0100 (CET) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at jacobs-university.de Received: from atlas3.jacobs-university.de ([10.70.0.220]) by localhost (demetrius5.jacobs-university.de [10.70.0.222]) (amavisd-new, port 10030) with ESMTP id 2Y3VMGu5kkZP for ; Wed, 5 Nov 2014 15:34:55 +0100 (CET) Received: from hermes.jacobs-university.de (hermes.jacobs-university.de [212.201.44.23]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (Client CN "hermes.jacobs-university.de", Issuer "Jacobs University CA - G01" (verified OK)) by atlas3.jacobs-university.de (Postfix) with ESMTPS for ; Wed, 5 Nov 2014 15:35:09 +0100 (CET) Received: from localhost (demetrius2.jacobs-university.de [212.201.44.47]) by hermes.jacobs-university.de (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9EE332003A for ; Wed, 5 Nov 2014 15:35:09 +0100 (CET) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at jacobs-university.de Received: from hermes.jacobs-university.de ([212.201.44.23]) by localhost (demetrius2.jacobs-university.de [212.201.44.32]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id A6hhQ0Tjt9C1; Wed, 5 Nov 2014 15:33:47 +0100 (CET) Received: from elstar.local (elstar.jacobs.jacobs-university.de [10.50.231.133]) by hermes.jacobs-university.de (Postfix) with ESMTP id D7E2520035; Wed, 5 Nov 2014 15:35:08 +0100 (CET) Received: by elstar.local (Postfix, from userid 501) id CB93F2F456D9; Wed, 5 Nov 2014 15:35:08 +0100 (CET) Date: Wed, 5 Nov 2014 15:35:08 +0100 From: Juergen Schoenwaelder To: netmod@ietf.org Message-ID: <20141105143508.GA24535@elstar.local> Mail-Followup-To: netmod@ietf.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline User-Agent: Mutt/1.4.2.3i Archived-At: http://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/netmod/ZNDh3ciGqfwlAaKEEhrKnf3yL-w Subject: [netmod] ietf 91 netmod agenda (revised) X-BeenThere: netmod@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list Reply-To: Juergen Schoenwaelder List-Id: NETMOD WG list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 05 Nov 2014 14:35:13 -0000 Hi, I have uploaded a new agenda. http://www.ietf.org/proceedings/91/agenda/agenda-91-netmod Note that the agenda may not be 100% correct or complete but hopefully we are converging to something stable. We try to take into account that certain contributors are not available on Friday. Please send requests for changes to the list or to both co-chairs since this will make synchronization easier. While Tom will run both meetings, we (the chairs) generally split responsibility between us - infrastructure work primarily goes to me, data modeling work primarily goes to Tom. /js -- Juergen Schoenwaelder Jacobs University Bremen gGmbH Phone: +49 421 200 3587 Campus Ring 1, 28759 Bremen, Germany Fax: +49 421 200 3103 From nobody Wed Nov 5 06:49:21 2014 Return-Path: X-Original-To: netmod@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: netmod@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7A72A1A9077 for ; Wed, 5 Nov 2014 06:49:18 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.979 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.979 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, FM_FORGED_GMAIL=0.622, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW=-0.7, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id niiDFq2VnYyR for ; Wed, 5 Nov 2014 06:49:16 -0800 (PST) Received: from mail-qa0-f54.google.com (mail-qa0-f54.google.com [209.85.216.54]) (using TLSv1 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-RC4-SHA (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id A88391A904D for ; Wed, 5 Nov 2014 06:49:16 -0800 (PST) Received: by mail-qa0-f54.google.com with SMTP id u7so573640qaz.13 for ; Wed, 05 Nov 2014 06:49:14 -0800 (PST) X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20130820; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:in-reply-to:references:date :message-id:subject:from:to:content-type; bh=lgYuQ75iylY9jqiIcpydbaTrwVdSbWMhvmjV+MxvPnk=; b=i87CATWZ8UftksJiRn4GtT7WbbEEdRCEWuJeAXs9yRYVpBDBnFtT22dKtXrtCT20DN z9kFa2YTLD6S1fu1izy7b2vDF++9DW64D/yzaoFwtr3oQ/T+gdbJnODBsx6/P7mDRjuS ENTzseISX2HRGqwHWlXEPwQ/sbYzA2PSpAUO6hUmt5j7arooXs3kfIQivKcqWIqRa62z h84elzng+zSA5nXWzmbfbmO4+8gf5AE3LAJU1g/c513j8hV2tag8hkiakY0JLoRazcSx T/BZ+mu2ESkH8evOWiF7UhmxfVEcqYVZQzC1DKr9drrl6/gJc1ssqmbPIez6zg7WF8OM UK0Q== X-Gm-Message-State: ALoCoQkn6Iu5+FPNYEEB4/MbhaTEHXxjsU4Meq3ipROwyXpxMGd6P4CcYolvOidJpVvxylrOUPbJ MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Received: by 10.140.81.36 with SMTP id e33mr17525610qgd.90.1415198953655; Wed, 05 Nov 2014 06:49:13 -0800 (PST) Received: by 10.140.37.52 with HTTP; Wed, 5 Nov 2014 06:49:13 -0800 (PST) In-Reply-To: <20141105141403.GE24310@elstar.local> References: <20141105141403.GE24310@elstar.local> Date: Wed, 5 Nov 2014 06:49:13 -0800 Message-ID: From: Andy Bierman To: Juergen Schoenwaelder , "netmod@ietf.org" Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Archived-At: http://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/netmod/BIZOx_X2mo0srjeyEX2CwTNJbW0 Subject: Re: [netmod] VRFY :Y58: associate an actions with a data node X-BeenThere: netmod@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: NETMOD WG list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 05 Nov 2014 14:49:18 -0000 On Wed, Nov 5, 2014 at 6:14 AM, Juergen Schoenwaelder wrote: > The 2014-10-15 virtual interim meeting proposal is to use the encoding > but to remove the data wrapper. In addition, issue Y36 should be > opened again, asking for proposals how to encode notifications > associated with data nodes. > I do not remember that we agreed to remove the data wrapper (meaning the instance information for the action). The main rationale for this change was lack of NACM support for parameter values. (e.g., user is only allowed to reset certain interfaces). If the data wrapper is changed to an XPath leaf then the NACM capabilities will be the same as we have now. The whole point of this feature is to tie actions to the datastore. The same requirements do not apply to notifications (e.g., user only allowed to receive notifications for certain interfaces). The server can determine the access control based on internal information. In either case, applying the datastore access control rules to actions or notifications is an entirely new access control model and NACM will require significant examination, redesign, re-publication, and re-implementation. Unless RFC6536bis is also on the charter then I object to this change. I would rather drop this new feature than leave the standard access control model broken. Andy > Please speak up by Wednesday 2014-11-12 if you disagree with this > proposal. > > For more details, see the issues list and the virtual interim meeting > minutes available here: > > http://svn.tools.ietf.org/svn/wg/netmod/yang-1.1/ > > /js > > -- > Juergen Schoenwaelder Jacobs University Bremen gGmbH > Phone: +49 421 200 3587 Campus Ring 1, 28759 Bremen, Germany > Fax: +49 421 200 3103 > > _______________________________________________ > netmod mailing list > netmod@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/netmod From nobody Wed Nov 5 06:56:00 2014 Return-Path: X-Original-To: netmod@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: netmod@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9F0EA1AC413 for ; Wed, 5 Nov 2014 06:55:57 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.495 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.495 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, RP_MATCHES_RCVD=-0.594, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 5uNCyz1I0Oea for ; Wed, 5 Nov 2014 06:55:55 -0800 (PST) Received: from mail.tail-f.com (mail.tail-f.com [83.241.162.140]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id AC8A81A1F70 for ; Wed, 5 Nov 2014 06:55:55 -0800 (PST) Received: from localhost (x15.tail-f.com [192.168.1.60]) by mail.tail-f.com (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id ABE4F1280996; Wed, 5 Nov 2014 15:55:54 +0100 (CET) Date: Wed, 05 Nov 2014 15:55:54 +0100 (CET) Message-Id: <20141105.155554.113656028962485180.mbj@tail-f.com> To: andy@yumaworks.com From: Martin Bjorklund In-Reply-To: References: <20141105141403.GE24310@elstar.local> X-Mailer: Mew version 6.5 on Emacs 23.4 / Mule 6.0 (HANACHIRUSATO) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: Text/Plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Archived-At: http://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/netmod/PXCSdlMwTZhLteoNNtcDIrAx9Uc Cc: netmod@ietf.org Subject: Re: [netmod] VRFY :Y58: associate an actions with a data node X-BeenThere: netmod@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: NETMOD WG list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 05 Nov 2014 14:55:57 -0000 Andy Bierman wrote: > On Wed, Nov 5, 2014 at 6:14 AM, Juergen Schoenwaelder > wrote: > > The 2014-10-15 virtual interim meeting proposal is to use the encoding > > but to remove the data wrapper. In addition, issue Y36 should be > > opened again, asking for proposals how to encode notifications > > associated with data nodes. > > > > > I do not remember that we agreed to remove the data wrapper > (meaning the instance information for the action). NOTE: this means that instead of doing: apache-1 2014-07-29T13:42Z we'd do: apache-1 2014-07-29T13:42Z /martin From nobody Wed Nov 5 07:06:15 2014 Return-Path: X-Original-To: netmod@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: netmod@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1D6EF1ACDFD for ; Wed, 5 Nov 2014 07:06:13 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -0.945 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-0.945 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, HELO_EQ_CZ=0.445, HOST_EQ_CZ=0.904, MIME_8BIT_HEADER=0.3, RP_MATCHES_RCVD=-0.594] autolearn=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 8fbOKKSsfpwq for ; Wed, 5 Nov 2014 07:06:11 -0800 (PST) Received: from mail.nic.cz (mail.nic.cz [IPv6:2001:1488:800:400::400]) (using TLSv1 with cipher ADH-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 185521ACE05 for ; Wed, 5 Nov 2014 07:06:10 -0800 (PST) Received: from [192.168.1.108] (unknown [195.113.220.254]) by mail.nic.cz (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id AEAF013FD8D; Wed, 5 Nov 2014 16:06:08 +0100 (CET) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=simple/simple; d=nic.cz; s=default; t=1415199968; bh=UKY7QxDzcfLLOTl12iPrxIbfCVLxMN1tDwAoL4C3Z1Y=; h=Content-Type:Mime-Version:Subject:From:In-Reply-To:Date:Cc: Content-Transfer-Encoding:Message-Id:References:To; b=k2qenhFdkSovuUCpi+60mR4CKHUgT1obRbvd2yNUl0UNUIzSAa4D7CMPgWpRzPj99 5DRKgaMcuFJEBdGFHL+Po0Ie3RnbDnAVYfJX4MCMc7mLPelF42BTO+5z4sbng+HLv4 JL7rJijNewF7/8fY5oSpqihKn52xC3O1TGDEcOec= Content-Type: text/plain; charset=windows-1252 Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 7.3 \(1878.6\)) From: Ladislav Lhotka In-Reply-To: <20141105143508.GA24535@elstar.local> Date: Wed, 5 Nov 2014 16:06:07 +0100 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Message-Id: <02A36928-5B70-452E-A27A-3FD82EDE4347@nic.cz> References: <20141105143508.GA24535@elstar.local> To: =?windows-1252?Q?J=FCrgen_Sch=F6nw=E4lder?= X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.1878.6) X-Virus-Scanned: clamav-milter 0.98.1 at mail X-Virus-Status: Clean Archived-At: http://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/netmod/3N40mmChmP_6ldPkWskw4bB12yw Cc: netmod@ietf.org Subject: Re: [netmod] ietf 91 netmod agenda (revised) X-BeenThere: netmod@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: NETMOD WG list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 05 Nov 2014 15:06:13 -0000 On 05 Nov 2014, at 15:35, Juergen Schoenwaelder = wrote: > Hi, >=20 > I have uploaded a new agenda. * A YANG Data Model for Routing Management 17:45-17:55 (10 = min) https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-netmod-routing-cfg-16 I don=92t know yet how far-reaching the discussion in the rtgwg meeting = is going to be but 10 minutes will hardly suffice =96 unless the = conclusion from the routing folks will be that it is all rubbish and we = should stop it. Lada >=20 > http://www.ietf.org/proceedings/91/agenda/agenda-91-netmod >=20 > Note that the agenda may not be 100% correct or complete but hopefully > we are converging to something stable. We try to take into account > that certain contributors are not available on Friday. Please send > requests for changes to the list or to both co-chairs since this will > make synchronization easier. While Tom will run both meetings, we (the > chairs) generally split responsibility between us - infrastructure > work primarily goes to me, data modeling work primarily goes to Tom. >=20 > /js >=20 > --=20 > Juergen Schoenwaelder Jacobs University Bremen gGmbH > Phone: +49 421 200 3587 Campus Ring 1, 28759 Bremen, Germany > Fax: +49 421 200 3103 >=20 > _______________________________________________ > netmod mailing list > netmod@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/netmod -- Ladislav Lhotka, CZ.NIC Labs PGP Key ID: E74E8C0C From nobody Wed Nov 5 07:07:58 2014 Return-Path: X-Original-To: netmod@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: netmod@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 69F5C1A0199 for ; Wed, 5 Nov 2014 07:07:54 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.979 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.979 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, FM_FORGED_GMAIL=0.622, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW=-0.7, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id xzA77RTnCI6A for ; Wed, 5 Nov 2014 07:07:51 -0800 (PST) Received: from mail-qa0-f48.google.com (mail-qa0-f48.google.com [209.85.216.48]) (using TLSv1 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-RC4-SHA (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id A11321A88B9 for ; Wed, 5 Nov 2014 07:07:50 -0800 (PST) Received: by mail-qa0-f48.google.com with SMTP id x12so608947qac.35 for ; Wed, 05 Nov 2014 07:07:49 -0800 (PST) X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20130820; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:in-reply-to:references:date :message-id:subject:from:to:cc:content-type :content-transfer-encoding; bh=0dDYNc8ZYFryA87ouxvV0DmMTyZZaVpm6ztV3Qln07o=; b=ZWueVdPAGbyaOu8hS/2RWuj0WpDlR+Mdsg8HAusCacvizFg19gFyvNrlDU1d3K2iOX taDf1oRaf32SskivjR2XT8S8LSO+JJC8jGkmkxA7ha+Nm7P6ZC802MLreiwxRgpy9zio U3E/XEPFplmiO9BpVzEWVgXsxW+lyXNfNfBAm5SeFCvySk287f83BcYL4wea5wU6p/L5 T7kgjy71WabMGWs+H6d9kaLiWBqdtHZmFsThm+r/IE0vbgGgr+lHXd+3aOO+d8bK/0T1 kTxs4egs8yL/L9EWPLU5X62JWfJFN6KrRaAxnC5X6HRjs0upca3LZcZ/WbMwcOi+7g7S 8sFg== X-Gm-Message-State: ALoCoQnfcVVVE6ei1+9yXR1dkJAOg9WTWBL0BKAxBJj6Eot9+7kTIevdGT4DS08Qh7YOGBD9vdbW MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Received: by 10.224.125.68 with SMTP id x4mr88846020qar.78.1415200068020; Wed, 05 Nov 2014 07:07:48 -0800 (PST) Received: by 10.140.37.52 with HTTP; Wed, 5 Nov 2014 07:07:47 -0800 (PST) In-Reply-To: <545A23A1.20006@mg-soft.com> References: <20141023233014.23083.56508.idtracker@ietfa.amsl.com> <545A23A1.20006@mg-soft.com> Date: Wed, 5 Nov 2014 07:07:47 -0800 Message-ID: From: Andy Bierman To: Jernej Tuljak Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Archived-At: http://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/netmod/kACAk5SbLW246uvQITLJnQ_oeR0 Cc: "netmod@ietf.org" Subject: Re: [netmod] I-D Action: draft-ietf-netmod-rfc6087bis-01.txt X-BeenThere: netmod@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: NETMOD WG list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 05 Nov 2014 15:07:55 -0000 Hi, Can you suggest replacement text for the specific details you do not like? I will look into your comments on the Axes and Wildcards sections. Andy On Wed, Nov 5, 2014 at 5:18 AM, Jernej Tuljak wr= ote: > (now replying to the proper thread) > > I see that the issues I raised regarding XPath expressions > (http://www.ietf.org/mail-archive/web/netmod/current/msg10172.html) have = now > made it into rfc6087bis-01 section 5.5. > > Section 5.5.1, what should a YANG compiler return for 'namespace-uri()' a= nd > 'name()' function if they are used? > > I still disagree with Section 5.5.2 Axes, where it describes usage > guidelines of preceding-sibling and following-sibling. These may be used > without issue if document order does not affect the outcome of the > expression, the same way preceding and following can be. See Ladislav's > suggestion for a possible solution > (http://www.ietf.org/mail-archive/web/netmod/current/msg10191.html). > > Section 5.5.4. Wildcards: > * (first paragraph) the last sentence ("This is due to augmenting nodes f= rom > other modules."), seems redundant or wrong. Augmentation is not the only > thing that affects XPath expressions that use wildcards. Simply implement= ing > another module that defines a data tree is enough. > * (second paragraph) the asterisk is not an operator in the context where= it > is being described, it is a node test. The asterisk that represents an > operator in XPath has nothing to do with this text which may lead to > confusion. > * (second paragraph) term "augmenting objects" should probably be "augmen= ted > objects". > > Jernej > > Dne 24.10.2014 1:30, pi=C5=A1e internet-drafts@ietf.org: >> >> A New Internet-Draft is available from the on-line Internet-Drafts >> directories. >> This draft is a work item of the NETCONF Data Modeling Language Workin= g >> Group of the IETF. >> >> Title : Guidelines for Authors and Reviewers of YANG >> Data Model Documents >> Author : Andy Bierman >> Filename : draft-ietf-netmod-rfc6087bis-01.txt >> Pages : 36 >> Date : 2014-10-23 >> >> Abstract: >> This memo provides guidelines for authors and reviewers of Standards >> Track specifications containing YANG data model modules. Applicable >> portions may be used as a basis for reviews of other YANG data model >> documents. Recommendations and procedures are defined, which are >> intended to increase interoperability and usability of Network >> Configuration Protocol (NETCONF) implementations that utilize YANG >> data model modules. >> >> >> The IETF datatracker status page for this draft is: >> https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-netmod-rfc6087bis/ >> >> There's also a htmlized version available at: >> http://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-netmod-rfc6087bis-01 >> >> A diff from the previous version is available at: >> http://www.ietf.org/rfcdiff?url2=3Ddraft-ietf-netmod-rfc6087bis-01 >> >> >> Please note that it may take a couple of minutes from the time of >> submission >> until the htmlized version and diff are available at tools.ietf.org. >> >> Internet-Drafts are also available by anonymous FTP at: >> ftp://ftp.ietf.org/internet-drafts/ >> >> _______________________________________________ >> netmod mailing list >> netmod@ietf.org >> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/netmod > > > _______________________________________________ > netmod mailing list > netmod@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/netmod From nobody Wed Nov 5 07:10:26 2014 Return-Path: X-Original-To: netmod@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: netmod@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id E81D31A88B9 for ; Wed, 5 Nov 2014 07:10:23 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.496 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.496 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, RP_MATCHES_RCVD=-0.594, SPF_HELO_PASS=-0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id MRMOBZNb4ZMT for ; Wed, 5 Nov 2014 07:10:22 -0800 (PST) Received: from lucidvision.com (lucidvision.com [72.71.250.34]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id E132B1A8790 for ; Wed, 5 Nov 2014 07:10:21 -0800 (PST) Received: from [10.204.244.224] (mobile-166-172-122-210.mycingular.net [166.172.122.210]) by lucidvision.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id BC42F28FE156; Wed, 5 Nov 2014 10:10:20 -0500 (EST) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Mime-Version: 1.0 (1.0) From: Thomas Nadeau X-Mailer: iPhone Mail (12B411) In-Reply-To: <02A36928-5B70-452E-A27A-3FD82EDE4347@nic.cz> Date: Wed, 5 Nov 2014 16:10:19 +0100 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Message-Id: <51640A63-19E3-4621-AC2D-4AEC1476CE26@lucidvision.com> References: <20141105143508.GA24535@elstar.local> <02A36928-5B70-452E-A27A-3FD82EDE4347@nic.cz> To: Ladislav Lhotka Archived-At: http://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/netmod/GNyRj2HjId-WqszUsgvfYWewARg Cc: "netmod@ietf.org" Subject: Re: [netmod] ietf 91 netmod agenda (revised) X-BeenThere: netmod@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: NETMOD WG list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 05 Nov 2014 15:10:24 -0000 We have about 80 spare minutes in the agenda so I will allow sufficient runw= ay for open discussion as-needed. Tom=20 > On Nov 5, 2014, at 4:06 PM, Ladislav Lhotka wrote: >=20 >=20 >> On 05 Nov 2014, at 15:35, Juergen Schoenwaelder wrote: >>=20 >> Hi, >>=20 >> I have uploaded a new agenda. >=20 > * A YANG Data Model for Routing Management 17:45-17:55 (10 mi= n) >=20 > https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-netmod-routing-cfg-16 >=20 > I don=E2=80=99t know yet how far-reaching the discussion in the rtgwg meet= ing is going to be but 10 minutes will hardly suffice =E2=80=93 unless the c= onclusion from the routing folks will be that it is all rubbish and we shoul= d stop it. >=20 > Lada >=20 >>=20 >> http://www.ietf.org/proceedings/91/agenda/agenda-91-netmod >>=20 >> Note that the agenda may not be 100% correct or complete but hopefully >> we are converging to something stable. We try to take into account >> that certain contributors are not available on Friday. Please send >> requests for changes to the list or to both co-chairs since this will >> make synchronization easier. While Tom will run both meetings, we (the >> chairs) generally split responsibility between us - infrastructure >> work primarily goes to me, data modeling work primarily goes to Tom. >>=20 >> /js >>=20 >> --=20 >> Juergen Schoenwaelder Jacobs University Bremen gGmbH >> Phone: +49 421 200 3587 Campus Ring 1, 28759 Bremen, Germany >> Fax: +49 421 200 3103 >>=20 >> _______________________________________________ >> netmod mailing list >> netmod@ietf.org >> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/netmod >=20 > -- > Ladislav Lhotka, CZ.NIC Labs > PGP Key ID: E74E8C0C >=20 >=20 >=20 >=20 > _______________________________________________ > netmod mailing list > netmod@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/netmod >=20 From nobody Wed Nov 5 07:32:57 2014 Return-Path: X-Original-To: netmod@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: netmod@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id E67E81A8953 for ; Wed, 5 Nov 2014 07:32:54 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -4.201 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-4.201 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-2.3, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id yTc_N3lcymYR for ; Wed, 5 Nov 2014 07:32:52 -0800 (PST) Received: from sesbmg23.ericsson.net (sesbmg23.ericsson.net [193.180.251.37]) (using TLSv1 with cipher DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 8C2EA1A8932 for ; Wed, 5 Nov 2014 07:32:50 -0800 (PST) X-AuditID: c1b4fb25-f791c6d00000617b-2b-545a4320134f Received: from ESESSHC018.ericsson.se (Unknown_Domain [153.88.253.124]) by sesbmg23.ericsson.net (Symantec Mail Security) with SMTP id 06.65.24955.0234A545; Wed, 5 Nov 2014 16:32:48 +0100 (CET) Received: from [159.107.197.98] (153.88.183.153) by smtp.internal.ericsson.com (153.88.183.74) with Microsoft SMTP Server id 14.3.174.1; Wed, 5 Nov 2014 16:32:48 +0100 Message-ID: <545A431F.8010401@ericsson.com> Date: Wed, 5 Nov 2014 16:32:47 +0100 From: Balazs Lengyel User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 6.1; WOW64; rv:24.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/24.6.0 MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Andy Bierman , Benoit Claise References: <79054E89-2D09-4461-8D35-8F6FA025B71F@nic.cz> <43060BE7-53EA-4B9D-B778-2FED58C0D60C@lucidvision.com> <52AE09CB-D4AB-4421-BBA4-1D9C45EA6957@gmail.com> <54590195.3010903@cisco.com> <54595361.5000907@cisco.com> In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8"; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Brightmail-Tracker: H4sIAAAAAAAAA+NgFtrJLMWRmVeSWpSXmKPExsUyM+Jvja6Cc1SIwa095hYPjsxitzj6WMJi /sVGVovnc2ayOLB4TPm9kdVjyZKfTB5fLn9m82jpv8gSwBLFZZOSmpNZllqkb5fAlXGwdwZb QVNgRdvlV+wNjI9suhg5OCQETCTOtSZ3MXICmWISF+6tZ+ti5OIQEjjCKHF2zyF2CGc1o8TX aydYQKp4BbQlemesYwWxWQRUJA5M6wWz2QSMJKb2nwerERWIkrhzqZ8Vol5Q4uTMJ2BxEQEP iRndJ8HizAIxEl+/b2YCsYUFdCSOfXwDtXkTi8S0aa/YQBKcAoESzfNmMUI0WEgsfnOQHcKW l2jeOpsZxBYS0JB4eOEv6wRGwVlI9s1C0jILScsCRuZVjKLFqcVJuelGxnqpRZnJxcX5eXp5 qSWbGIFhfXDLb9UdjJffOB5iFOBgVOLh3TgpMkSINbGsuDL3EKM0B4uSOO/Cc/OChQTSE0tS s1NTC1KL4otKc1KLDzEycXBKNTD2mHtb+q7yC7rvo7t7vbl6SpJJ4vL533gf+laes/66IGrP vO1nbPczz5ljPX3pjDdrxbLWZe9sEuOozvz/6Uf0lT6T6XvTd30/MKn71UEr080u/3iajhZ+ O7Ns6sY9F6/4iLjOiT1dIDvrQ/js4vxQgaTFt2Otp/zq+J18rkBr1n6jI6u3a5QwKbEUZyQa ajEXFScCAJD99+NMAgAA Archived-At: http://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/netmod/2gcpldGgVbTN0C0KDR4-1f-XHyw Cc: "netmod@ietf.org" , "rtg-ads@tools.ietf.org" Subject: Re: [netmod] IETF91 NETMOD agenda ? X-BeenThere: netmod@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: NETMOD WG list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 05 Nov 2014 15:32:55 -0000 Hello, A very short overview would be good. All drafts by workgroup in 15 minutes. regards Balazs On 2014-11-05 00:20, Andy Bierman wrote: > On Tue, Nov 4, 2014 at 2:29 PM, Benoit Claise wrote: >> Mahesh, >> >> Benoit, >> >> I was going to give a quick update on the BFD YANG model, which is being >> presented/discussed in its own WG. >> >> I wonder which ideal outcome you want a presentation in the NETMOD WG? >> >> Here's the list of drafts that have normative or unclassified references to >> YANG: >> >> draft-vanderstok-core-comi-05 2014-10-27 Active >> draft-shi-alto-yang-json-00 2014-10-27 Active >> draft-shi-alto-yang-model-00 2014-10-27 Active >> draft-netmod-clemm-datastore-push-00 2014-10-27 Active >> draft-wildes-netmod-syslog-model-05 2014-10-27 Active >> draft-zhang-nvo3-yang-active-active-cfg-00 2014-10-27 Active >> draft-zaalouk-supa-configuration-model-01 2014-10-27 Active >> draft-wang-lime-rpc-yang-oam-management-00 2014-10-27 Active >> draft-vergara-flexigrid-yang-00 2014-10-27 Active >> draft-gandhi-mpls-te-yang-model-01 2014-10-27 Active >> draft-txh-opsawg-lime-gap-analysis-01 2014-10-27 Active >> draft-zheng-netmod-xmi-yang-translation-00 2014-10-27 Active >> draft-chen-i2rs-mpls-ldp-info-model-00 2014-10-27 Active >> draft-tripathy-cloud-sla-yang-model-00 2014-10-27 Active >> draft-clemm-i2rs-yang-l3-topo-00 2014-10-27 Active >> draft-contreras-supa-yang-network-topo-01 2014-10-27 Active >> draft-wang-yang-bfd-oam-00 2014-10-27 Active >> draft-ietf-netconf-server-model-04 2014-10-26 Active >> draft-ietf-isis-yang-isis-cfg-01 2014-10-26 Active >> draft-shen-l2tpext-l2tpv3-yang-model-00 2014-10-26 Active >> draft-ietf-netmod-routing-cfg-16 2014-10-26 Active >> draft-shaikh-idr-bgp-model-00 2014-10-26 Active >> draft-ietf-netconf-restconf-03 2014-10-25 Active >> draft-pkd-pce-pcep-yang-01 2014-10-25 Active >> draft-sarikaya-dmm-for-wifi-01 2014-10-24 Active >> draft-voit-netmod-peer-mount-requirements-01 2014-10-24 Active >> draft-shi-model-json-msg-yang-00 2014-10-24 Active >> draft-liu-pim-igmp-mld-yang-00 2014-10-23 Active >> draft-ietf-netmod-rfc6087bis-01 2014-10-23 Active >> draft-liu-pim-yang-00 2014-10-23 Active >> draft-asechoud-netmod-diffserv-model-00 2014-10-22 Active >> draft-dong-i2rs-l2-network-topology-00 2014-10-21 Active >> draft-bierman-netconf-efficiency-extensions-02 2014-10-21 Active >> draft-zhang-nvo3-yang-cfg-00 2014-10-21 Active >> draft-sun-softwire-yang-00 2014-10-20 Active >> draft-yeung-netmod-ospf-02 2014-10-14 Active >> draft-ietf-netmod-yang-json-01 2014-10-13 Active >> draft-clemm-i2rs-yang-network-topo-01 2014-10-10 Active >> draft-ietf-netconf-call-home-01 2014-10-10 Active >> draft-bogdanovic-netmod-acl-model-02 2014-10-08 Active >> draft-clemm-netmod-mount-02 2014-10-07 Active >> draft-zhdankin-netmod-bgp-cfg-01 2014-10-02 Active >> draft-wang-i2rs-ospf-dm-00 2014-09-26 Active >> draft-bhuvan-bmwg-of-controller-benchmarking-01 2014-09-25 Active >> draft-zhang-mpls-tp-yang-oam-00 2014-09-25 Active >> draft-bierman-netmod-yang-conformance-04 2014-09-24 Active >> draft-ietf-netmod-snmp-cfg-08 2014-09-18 In IESG >> processing - ID Tracker state >> draft-frank-netconf-conformance-00 2014-09-16 Active >> draft-haas-i2rs-netmod-netconf-requirements-00 2014-09-12 Active >> draft-lhotka-netmod-yang-metadata-00 2014-09-11 Active >> draft-schoenw-lmap-yang-01 2014-09-02 Active >> draft-zhuang-l2vpn-yang-cfg-00 2014-08-24 Active >> draft-zhuang-l2vpn-evpn-yang-cfg-00 2014-08-16 Active >> draft-chen-mpls-ldp-yang-cfg-00 2014-08-15 Active >> draft-chen-mpls-te-yang-cfg-00 2014-08-15 Active >> draft-zhuang-l3vpn-yang-cfg-00 2014-08-15 Active >> draft-scharf-alto-yang-00 2014-07-04 Active >> draft-yang-netmod-location-00 2014-07-04 Active >> draft-fang-l3vpn-virtual-pe-05 2014-07-04 Active >> draft-mekking-dnsop-kasp-00 2014-07-04 Active >> draft-xjz-opsawg-nfvmodel-00 2014-07-04 Active >> draft-liu-netmod-yang-abstract-topo-00 2014-07-03 Active >> draft-ietf-netconf-yang-patch-01 2014-07-03 Active >> draft-zheng-netmod-integrate-operations-00 2014-07-02 Active >> draft-liu-netconf-multi-instances-00 2014-07-02 Active >> draft-litkowski-isis-yang-isis-cfg-01 2014-06-27 Active >> draft-litkowski-netmod-isis-cfg-00 2014-06-17 Active >> draft-lonvick-private-tax-08 2014-06-09 Active >> draft-tp-i2rs-yang-00 2014-05-08 Active >> >> That could be a lot of updates... >> I believe we should focus on the YANG models that don't have an existing WG. >> > I would prefer to spend all the meeting time > trying to discuss open issues in chartered items. I don't see why > the NETMOD WG needs to spend time on status reports for > any unchartered work. > > I don't agree that NETMOD WG should be the home of SYSLOG > or any other protocol specific data models. IMO all those type of drafts > should try to find a home in a protocol WG with the right experts. > > > > Andy > > > >> Reminder: A good avenue for any YANG models is >> http://www.ietf.org/meeting/91/tutorials/yang-session.html >> >> Regards, Benoit >> >> >> >> >> On Tue Nov 04 2014 at 8:40:55 AM Benoit Claise wrote: >>> Mahesh, >>> >>> Not sure what exactly you want to present but let me draw your attention >>> that the routing-related modules should be taken care of in their respective >>> WG. See >>> http://www.ietf.org/mail-archive/web/rtg-yang-coord/current/msg00094.html >>> >>> Regards, Benoit >>> >>> Tom, >>> >>> I am giving an update on the BFD YANG model in the BFD WG. I can give a >>> quick update (~1-2min) in NETMOD if such an update is desired. >>> >>> Mahesh Jethanandani >>> mjethanandani@gmail.com >>> >>> On Oct 23, 2014, at 1:43 PM, "Thomas D. Nadeau" >>> wrote: >>> >>> >>> We have plenty of runway in the agenda right now so I will put it down >>> as two items. We reserved two slots because I feel its important to >>> encourage discussion during the face2face meetings so insofar as I can, I >>> want to give you enough runway to discuss this in detail. >>> >>> --Tom >>> >>> >>> On Oct 23, 2014:12:13 PM, at 12:13 PM, Ladislav Lhotka >>> wrote: >>> >>> >>> Hi, >>> >>> >>> apart from the two WG items draft-ietf-netmod-routing-cfg-16 (to be >>> submitted) and draft-ietf-netmod-yang-json-01, I’d like to discuss the draft >>> and draft-lhotka-netmod-yang-metadata-00. I think 5 minutes would be enough >>> for the latter, I could even do it together with yang-json. >>> >>> >>> Thanks, Lada >>> >>> >>> On 23 Oct 2014, at 18:02, Andy Bierman wrote: >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> On Tue, Oct 21, 2014 at 2:34 PM, Thomas D. Nadeau >>> wrote: >>> >>> >>> Not yet. Please propose topics. >>> >>> >>> >>> I would like 15 min. to discuss YANG conformance issues, specified in this >>> draft: >>> >>> http://www.ietf.org/id/draft-bierman-netmod-yang-conformance-04.txt >>> >>> >>> These issues may get resolved in the NETCONF YANG 1.1 virtual interim >>> >>> meeting next week. If not, this topic should be discussed at the IETF >>> meeting. >>> >>> >>> >>> —Tom >>> >>> >>> Andy >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> On Oct 21, 2014:5:32 PM, at 5:32 PM, Sterne, Jason (Jason) >>> wrote: >>> >>> >>> Hi all, >>> >>> >>> Is there a preliminary agenda for the two NETMOD sessions at IETF91 ? >>> >>> >>> Some thought about topics being split between the 1st (longer) and 2nd >>> (shorter) sessions ? >>> >>> >>> Thanks, >>> >>> Jason >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> >>> netmod mailing list >>> >>> netmod@ietf.org >>> >>> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/netmod >>> >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> >>> netmod mailing list >>> >>> netmod@ietf.org >>> >>> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/netmod >>> >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> >>> netmod mailing list >>> >>> netmod@ietf.org >>> >>> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/netmod >>> >>> >>> -- >>> >>> Ladislav Lhotka, CZ.NIC Labs >>> >>> PGP Key ID: E74E8C0C >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> netmod mailing list >>> netmod@ietf.org >>> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/netmod >>> >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> netmod mailing list >>> netmod@ietf.org >>> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/netmod >>> >>> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> netmod mailing list >> netmod@ietf.org >> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/netmod >> > _______________________________________________ > netmod mailing list > netmod@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/netmod -- Balazs Lengyel Ericsson Hungary Ltd. Senior Specialist ECN: 831 7320 Tel: +36-1-437-7320 Mobile: +36-70-330-7909 email: Balazs.Lengyel@ericsson.com From nobody Wed Nov 5 07:40:16 2014 Return-Path: X-Original-To: netmod@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: netmod@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id C3D4D1A890E for ; Wed, 5 Nov 2014 07:40:13 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.144 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.144 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, HELO_EQ_DE=0.35, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, RP_MATCHES_RCVD=-0.594] autolearn=ham Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id BjUMs9N2daPI for ; Wed, 5 Nov 2014 07:40:12 -0800 (PST) Received: from atlas3.jacobs-university.de (atlas3.jacobs-university.de [212.201.44.18]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher AECDH-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 5B5671A890C for ; Wed, 5 Nov 2014 07:40:12 -0800 (PST) Received: from localhost (demetrius5.irc-it.jacobs-university.de [10.70.0.222]) by atlas3.jacobs-university.de (Postfix) with ESMTP id 07444FFF; Wed, 5 Nov 2014 16:40:11 +0100 (CET) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at jacobs-university.de Received: from atlas3.jacobs-university.de ([10.70.0.220]) by localhost (demetrius5.jacobs-university.de [10.70.0.222]) (amavisd-new, port 10030) with ESMTP id kP-nKJBZ-HKz; Wed, 5 Nov 2014 16:39:56 +0100 (CET) Received: from hermes.jacobs-university.de (hermes.jacobs-university.de [212.201.44.23]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (Client CN "hermes.jacobs-university.de", Issuer "Jacobs University CA - G01" (verified OK)) by atlas3.jacobs-university.de (Postfix) with ESMTPS; Wed, 5 Nov 2014 16:40:10 +0100 (CET) Received: from localhost (demetrius4.jacobs-university.de [212.201.44.49]) by hermes.jacobs-university.de (Postfix) with ESMTP id 22D1D2003A; Wed, 5 Nov 2014 16:40:10 +0100 (CET) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at jacobs-university.de Received: from hermes.jacobs-university.de ([212.201.44.23]) by localhost (demetrius4.jacobs-university.de [212.201.44.32]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id K7LuvbvI8aCU; Wed, 5 Nov 2014 16:40:09 +0100 (CET) Received: from elstar.local (elstar.jacobs.jacobs-university.de [10.50.231.133]) by hermes.jacobs-university.de (Postfix) with ESMTP id E606B20035; Wed, 5 Nov 2014 16:40:08 +0100 (CET) Received: by elstar.local (Postfix, from userid 501) id 127482F459A8; Wed, 5 Nov 2014 16:40:07 +0100 (CET) Date: Wed, 5 Nov 2014 16:40:07 +0100 From: Juergen Schoenwaelder To: Ladislav Lhotka Message-ID: <20141105154007.GA24808@elstar.local> Mail-Followup-To: Ladislav Lhotka , netmod@ietf.org References: <20141105143508.GA24535@elstar.local> <02A36928-5B70-452E-A27A-3FD82EDE4347@nic.cz> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit In-Reply-To: <02A36928-5B70-452E-A27A-3FD82EDE4347@nic.cz> User-Agent: Mutt/1.4.2.3i Archived-At: http://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/netmod/QuJg79nJdML0gVjzAlL6bUsJLfk Cc: netmod@ietf.org Subject: Re: [netmod] ietf 91 netmod agenda (revised) X-BeenThere: netmod@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list Reply-To: Juergen Schoenwaelder List-Id: NETMOD WG list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 05 Nov 2014 15:40:13 -0000 On Wed, Nov 05, 2014 at 04:06:07PM +0100, Ladislav Lhotka wrote: > > On 05 Nov 2014, at 15:35, Juergen Schoenwaelder wrote: > > > Hi, > > > > I have uploaded a new agenda. > > * A YANG Data Model for Routing Management 17:45-17:55 (10 min) > > https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-netmod-routing-cfg-16 > > I don’t know yet how far-reaching the discussion in the rtgwg meeting is going to be but 10 minutes will hardly suffice – unless the conclusion from the routing folks will be that it is all rubbish and we should stop it. > We do not know either. Your proposal? We have to plan with something. /js -- Juergen Schoenwaelder Jacobs University Bremen gGmbH Phone: +49 421 200 3587 Campus Ring 1, 28759 Bremen, Germany Fax: +49 421 200 3103 From nobody Wed Nov 5 07:47:50 2014 Return-Path: X-Original-To: netmod@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: netmod@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id BE8DC1A8888 for ; Wed, 5 Nov 2014 07:47:45 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -0.945 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-0.945 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, HELO_EQ_CZ=0.445, HOST_EQ_CZ=0.904, MIME_8BIT_HEADER=0.3, RP_MATCHES_RCVD=-0.594] autolearn=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 9m6-IA51VMk6 for ; Wed, 5 Nov 2014 07:47:44 -0800 (PST) Received: from mail.nic.cz (mail.nic.cz [IPv6:2001:1488:800:400::400]) (using TLSv1 with cipher ADH-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 060101ACE75 for ; Wed, 5 Nov 2014 07:47:44 -0800 (PST) Received: from [192.168.1.108] (unknown [195.113.220.254]) by mail.nic.cz (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 5BBAB1400C9; Wed, 5 Nov 2014 16:47:42 +0100 (CET) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=simple/simple; d=nic.cz; s=default; t=1415202462; bh=9+EgnLYfrFmx3r96J87vi+S+MhNUEj6THw489wxS+sQ=; h=Content-Type:Mime-Version:Subject:From:In-Reply-To:Date:Cc: Content-Transfer-Encoding:Message-Id:References:To; b=VANToKli3a/KreI5KtUGYPA4zzSZTE0czdK+C5r/jFKJfa589Y2oMH0dQdBfZXxIj glZor3hdRDWF0DkI4fmpIdisO8x/rOVP8EBGp9XVc90YHzZrCIv/zL86eMR9WCUM/X 7mGVlhi0wkq531h6XuLxXVBO7hZFxjo4Wjt6EWzE= Content-Type: text/plain; charset=windows-1252 Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 7.3 \(1878.6\)) From: Ladislav Lhotka In-Reply-To: <20141105154007.GA24808@elstar.local> Date: Wed, 5 Nov 2014 16:47:41 +0100 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Message-Id: <1FAD9E24-8531-471E-BB98-85915CE4797E@nic.cz> References: <20141105143508.GA24535@elstar.local> <02A36928-5B70-452E-A27A-3FD82EDE4347@nic.cz> <20141105154007.GA24808@elstar.local> To: =?windows-1252?Q?J=FCrgen_Sch=F6nw=E4lder?= X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.1878.6) X-Virus-Scanned: clamav-milter 0.98.1 at mail X-Virus-Status: Clean Archived-At: http://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/netmod/u7sladBV4bL5I1rM_p7FUAllDW0 Cc: netmod@ietf.org Subject: Re: [netmod] ietf 91 netmod agenda (revised) X-BeenThere: netmod@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: NETMOD WG list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 05 Nov 2014 15:47:45 -0000 On 05 Nov 2014, at 16:40, Juergen Schoenwaelder = wrote: > On Wed, Nov 05, 2014 at 04:06:07PM +0100, Ladislav Lhotka wrote: >>=20 >> On 05 Nov 2014, at 15:35, Juergen Schoenwaelder = wrote: >>=20 >>> Hi, >>>=20 >>> I have uploaded a new agenda. >>=20 >> * A YANG Data Model for Routing Management 17:45-17:55 = (10 min) >>=20 >> https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-netmod-routing-cfg-16 >>=20 >> I don=92t know yet how far-reaching the discussion in the rtgwg = meeting is going to be but 10 minutes will hardly suffice =96 unless the = conclusion from the routing folks will be that it is all rubbish and we = should stop it. >>=20 >=20 > We do not know either. Your proposal? We have to plan with something. 20 minutes at least, but I am OK with Tom=92s answer. Lada >=20 > /js >=20 > --=20 > Juergen Schoenwaelder Jacobs University Bremen gGmbH > Phone: +49 421 200 3587 Campus Ring 1, 28759 Bremen, Germany > Fax: +49 421 200 3103 -- Ladislav Lhotka, CZ.NIC Labs PGP Key ID: E74E8C0C From nobody Wed Nov 5 08:13:33 2014 Return-Path: X-Original-To: netmod@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: netmod@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 016B21A8983 for ; Wed, 5 Nov 2014 08:13:30 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.902 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.902 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, SPF_HELO_PASS=-0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id xD_Xh6pd8ZMo for ; Wed, 5 Nov 2014 08:13:25 -0800 (PST) Received: from na01-by2-obe.outbound.protection.outlook.com (mail-by2on0145.outbound.protection.outlook.com [207.46.100.145]) (using TLSv1 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 5A29B1A8932 for ; Wed, 5 Nov 2014 08:13:25 -0800 (PST) Received: from BN1PR05MB424.namprd05.prod.outlook.com (10.141.58.148) by BN1PR05MB422.namprd05.prod.outlook.com (10.141.58.142) with Microsoft SMTP Server (TLS) id 15.1.11.14; Wed, 5 Nov 2014 16:13:24 +0000 Received: from BN1PR05MB424.namprd05.prod.outlook.com ([169.254.8.103]) by BN1PR05MB424.namprd05.prod.outlook.com ([169.254.8.103]) with mapi id 15.01.0011.000; Wed, 5 Nov 2014 16:13:24 +0000 From: Dean Bogdanovic To: Balazs Lengyel Thread-Topic: [netmod] IETF91 NETMOD agenda ? Thread-Index: Ac/tdoGexyGw623TR4igNJSWn+KnzAAAEYeAAFj9foAAAGUuAAADI+uAAMtH7IABjgXXgAALudyHAAB2coAAAcSygAAh9L6AAAFq2AA= Date: Wed, 5 Nov 2014 16:13:23 +0000 Message-ID: References: <79054E89-2D09-4461-8D35-8F6FA025B71F@nic.cz> <43060BE7-53EA-4B9D-B778-2FED58C0D60C@lucidvision.com> <52AE09CB-D4AB-4421-BBA4-1D9C45EA6957@gmail.com> <54590195.3010903@cisco.com> <54595361.5000907@cisco.com> <545A431F.8010401@ericsson.com> In-Reply-To: <545A431F.8010401@ericsson.com> Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-mailer: Apple Mail (2.1510) x-ms-exchange-transport-fromentityheader: Hosted x-originating-ip: [66.129.241.11] x-microsoft-antispam: BCL:0;PCL:0;RULEID:;SRVR:BN1PR05MB422; x-exchange-antispam-report-test: UriScan:; x-forefront-prvs: 0386B406AA x-forefront-antispam-report: SFV:NSPM; SFS:(10019020)(6009001)(24454002)(199003)(377424004)(53754006)(164054003)(377454003)(252514010)(51704005)(189002)(122556002)(15975445006)(101416001)(15202345003)(82746002)(19580395003)(104166001)(46102003)(76176999)(97736003)(19580405001)(50986999)(86362001)(93916002)(575784001)(92566001)(92726001)(31966008)(89996001)(77096003)(62966003)(77156002)(87286001)(40100003)(83716003)(21056001)(87936001)(2656002)(20776003)(64706001)(66066001)(4396001)(57306001)(50226001)(36756003)(88136002)(99396003)(120916001)(110136001)(106356001)(99286002)(93886004)(107046002)(95666004)(105586002)(104396001); DIR:OUT; SFP:1102; SCL:1; SRVR:BN1PR05MB422; H:BN1PR05MB424.namprd05.prod.outlook.com; FPR:; MLV:sfv; PTR:InfoNoRecords; A:1; MX:1; LANG:en; Content-Type: text/plain; charset="Windows-1252" Content-ID: <0C8E18D27B3EA44795563D54060C4920@namprd05.prod.outlook.com> Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable MIME-Version: 1.0 X-OriginatorOrg: juniper.net Archived-At: http://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/netmod/AaHhEJoacM8wMA35l0a6Z8eZcFc Cc: "netmod@ietf.org" , "rtg-ads@tools.ietf.org" Subject: Re: [netmod] IETF91 NETMOD agenda ? X-BeenThere: netmod@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: NETMOD WG list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 05 Nov 2014 16:13:30 -0000 On Nov 5, 2014, at 10:32 AM, Balazs Lengyel w= rote: > Hello, > A very short overview would be good. All drafts by workgroup in 15 minute= s. > regards Balazs And what do you hope to achieve with this? You'll hear 1 or 2 sentence per = draft and probably will not get more info. It would be much more efficient = to block some time at the end of the meeting on Friday and setup Q&A with a= uthors. Then for people who have interest in a particular draft can get ans= wers and if needed continue conversation after the meeting. Dean >=20 > On 2014-11-05 00:20, Andy Bierman wrote: >> On Tue, Nov 4, 2014 at 2:29 PM, Benoit Claise wrote: >>> Mahesh, >>>=20 >>> Benoit, >>>=20 >>> I was going to give a quick update on the BFD YANG model, which is bein= g >>> presented/discussed in its own WG. >>>=20 >>> I wonder which ideal outcome you want a presentation in the NETMOD WG? >>>=20 >>> Here's the list of drafts that have normative or unclassified reference= s to >>> YANG: >>>=20 >>> draft-vanderstok-core-comi-05 2014-10-27 Active >>> draft-shi-alto-yang-json-00 2014-10-27 Active >>> draft-shi-alto-yang-model-00 2014-10-27 Active >>> draft-netmod-clemm-datastore-push-00 2014-10-27 Active >>> draft-wildes-netmod-syslog-model-05 2014-10-27 Active >>> draft-zhang-nvo3-yang-active-active-cfg-00 2014-10-27 Active >>> draft-zaalouk-supa-configuration-model-01 2014-10-27 Active >>> draft-wang-lime-rpc-yang-oam-management-00 2014-10-27 Active >>> draft-vergara-flexigrid-yang-00 2014-10-27 Active >>> draft-gandhi-mpls-te-yang-model-01 2014-10-27 Active >>> draft-txh-opsawg-lime-gap-analysis-01 2014-10-27 Active >>> draft-zheng-netmod-xmi-yang-translation-00 2014-10-27 Active >>> draft-chen-i2rs-mpls-ldp-info-model-00 2014-10-27 Active >>> draft-tripathy-cloud-sla-yang-model-00 2014-10-27 Active >>> draft-clemm-i2rs-yang-l3-topo-00 2014-10-27 Active >>> draft-contreras-supa-yang-network-topo-01 2014-10-27 Active >>> draft-wang-yang-bfd-oam-00 2014-10-27 Active >>> draft-ietf-netconf-server-model-04 2014-10-26 Active >>> draft-ietf-isis-yang-isis-cfg-01 2014-10-26 Active >>> draft-shen-l2tpext-l2tpv3-yang-model-00 2014-10-26 Active >>> draft-ietf-netmod-routing-cfg-16 2014-10-26 Active >>> draft-shaikh-idr-bgp-model-00 2014-10-26 Active >>> draft-ietf-netconf-restconf-03 2014-10-25 Active >>> draft-pkd-pce-pcep-yang-01 2014-10-25 Active >>> draft-sarikaya-dmm-for-wifi-01 2014-10-24 Active >>> draft-voit-netmod-peer-mount-requirements-01 2014-10-24 Active >>> draft-shi-model-json-msg-yang-00 2014-10-24 Active >>> draft-liu-pim-igmp-mld-yang-00 2014-10-23 Active >>> draft-ietf-netmod-rfc6087bis-01 2014-10-23 Active >>> draft-liu-pim-yang-00 2014-10-23 Active >>> draft-asechoud-netmod-diffserv-model-00 2014-10-22 Active >>> draft-dong-i2rs-l2-network-topology-00 2014-10-21 Active >>> draft-bierman-netconf-efficiency-extensions-02 2014-10-21 Active >>> draft-zhang-nvo3-yang-cfg-00 2014-10-21 Active >>> draft-sun-softwire-yang-00 2014-10-20 Active >>> draft-yeung-netmod-ospf-02 2014-10-14 Active >>> draft-ietf-netmod-yang-json-01 2014-10-13 Active >>> draft-clemm-i2rs-yang-network-topo-01 2014-10-10 Active >>> draft-ietf-netconf-call-home-01 2014-10-10 Active >>> draft-bogdanovic-netmod-acl-model-02 2014-10-08 Active >>> draft-clemm-netmod-mount-02 2014-10-07 Active >>> draft-zhdankin-netmod-bgp-cfg-01 2014-10-02 Active >>> draft-wang-i2rs-ospf-dm-00 2014-09-26 Active >>> draft-bhuvan-bmwg-of-controller-benchmarking-01 2014-09-25 Active >>> draft-zhang-mpls-tp-yang-oam-00 2014-09-25 Active >>> draft-bierman-netmod-yang-conformance-04 2014-09-24 Active >>> draft-ietf-netmod-snmp-cfg-08 2014-09-18 In IESG >>> processing - ID Tracker state >>> draft-frank-netconf-conformance-00 2014-09-16 Active >>> draft-haas-i2rs-netmod-netconf-requirements-00 2014-09-12 Active >>> draft-lhotka-netmod-yang-metadata-00 2014-09-11 Active >>> draft-schoenw-lmap-yang-01 2014-09-02 Active >>> draft-zhuang-l2vpn-yang-cfg-00 2014-08-24 Active >>> draft-zhuang-l2vpn-evpn-yang-cfg-00 2014-08-16 Active >>> draft-chen-mpls-ldp-yang-cfg-00 2014-08-15 Active >>> draft-chen-mpls-te-yang-cfg-00 2014-08-15 Active >>> draft-zhuang-l3vpn-yang-cfg-00 2014-08-15 Active >>> draft-scharf-alto-yang-00 2014-07-04 Active >>> draft-yang-netmod-location-00 2014-07-04 Active >>> draft-fang-l3vpn-virtual-pe-05 2014-07-04 Active >>> draft-mekking-dnsop-kasp-00 2014-07-04 Active >>> draft-xjz-opsawg-nfvmodel-00 2014-07-04 Active >>> draft-liu-netmod-yang-abstract-topo-00 2014-07-03 Active >>> draft-ietf-netconf-yang-patch-01 2014-07-03 Active >>> draft-zheng-netmod-integrate-operations-00 2014-07-02 Active >>> draft-liu-netconf-multi-instances-00 2014-07-02 Active >>> draft-litkowski-isis-yang-isis-cfg-01 2014-06-27 Active >>> draft-litkowski-netmod-isis-cfg-00 2014-06-17 Active >>> draft-lonvick-private-tax-08 2014-06-09 Active >>> draft-tp-i2rs-yang-00 2014-05-08 Active >>>=20 >>> That could be a lot of updates... >>> I believe we should focus on the YANG models that don't have an existin= g WG. >>>=20 >> I would prefer to spend all the meeting time >> trying to discuss open issues in chartered items. I don't see why >> the NETMOD WG needs to spend time on status reports for >> any unchartered work. >>=20 >> I don't agree that NETMOD WG should be the home of SYSLOG >> or any other protocol specific data models. IMO all those type of drafts >> should try to find a home in a protocol WG with the right experts. >>=20 >>=20 >>=20 >> Andy >>=20 >>=20 >>=20 >>> Reminder: A good avenue for any YANG models is >>> http://www.ietf.org/meeting/91/tutorials/yang-session.html >>>=20 >>> Regards, Benoit >>>=20 >>>=20 >>>=20 >>>=20 >>> On Tue Nov 04 2014 at 8:40:55 AM Benoit Claise wrot= e: >>>> Mahesh, >>>>=20 >>>> Not sure what exactly you want to present but let me draw your attenti= on >>>> that the routing-related modules should be taken care of in their resp= ective >>>> WG. See >>>> http://www.ietf.org/mail-archive/web/rtg-yang-coord/current/msg00094.h= tml >>>>=20 >>>> Regards, Benoit >>>>=20 >>>> Tom, >>>>=20 >>>> I am giving an update on the BFD YANG model in the BFD WG. I can give = a >>>> quick update (~1-2min) in NETMOD if such an update is desired. >>>>=20 >>>> Mahesh Jethanandani >>>> mjethanandani@gmail.com >>>>=20 >>>> On Oct 23, 2014, at 1:43 PM, "Thomas D. Nadeau" >>>> wrote: >>>>=20 >>>>=20 >>>> We have plenty of runway in the agenda right now so I will put it d= own >>>> as two items. We reserved two slots because I feel its important to >>>> encourage discussion during the face2face meetings so insofar as I can= , I >>>> want to give you enough runway to discuss this in detail. >>>>=20 >>>> --Tom >>>>=20 >>>>=20 >>>> On Oct 23, 2014:12:13 PM, at 12:13 PM, Ladislav Lhotka >>>> wrote: >>>>=20 >>>>=20 >>>> Hi, >>>>=20 >>>>=20 >>>> apart from the two WG items draft-ietf-netmod-routing-cfg-16 (to be >>>> submitted) and draft-ietf-netmod-yang-json-01, I=92d like to discuss t= he draft >>>> and draft-lhotka-netmod-yang-metadata-00. I think 5 minutes would be e= nough >>>> for the latter, I could even do it together with yang-json. >>>>=20 >>>>=20 >>>> Thanks, Lada >>>>=20 >>>>=20 >>>> On 23 Oct 2014, at 18:02, Andy Bierman wrote: >>>>=20 >>>>=20 >>>>=20 >>>>=20 >>>> On Tue, Oct 21, 2014 at 2:34 PM, Thomas D. Nadeau >>>> wrote: >>>>=20 >>>>=20 >>>> Not yet. Please propose topics. >>>>=20 >>>>=20 >>>>=20 >>>> I would like 15 min. to discuss YANG conformance issues, specified in = this >>>> draft: >>>>=20 >>>> http://www.ietf.org/id/draft-bierman-netmod-yang-conformance-04.txt >>>>=20 >>>>=20 >>>> These issues may get resolved in the NETCONF YANG 1.1 virtual interim >>>>=20 >>>> meeting next week. If not, this topic should be discussed at the IETF >>>> meeting. >>>>=20 >>>>=20 >>>>=20 >>>> =97Tom >>>>=20 >>>>=20 >>>> Andy >>>>=20 >>>>=20 >>>>=20 >>>>=20 >>>> On Oct 21, 2014:5:32 PM, at 5:32 PM, Sterne, Jason (Jason) >>>> wrote: >>>>=20 >>>>=20 >>>> Hi all, >>>>=20 >>>>=20 >>>> Is there a preliminary agenda for the two NETMOD sessions at IETF91 ? >>>>=20 >>>>=20 >>>> Some thought about topics being split between the 1st (longer) and 2nd >>>> (shorter) sessions ? >>>>=20 >>>>=20 >>>> Thanks, >>>>=20 >>>> Jason >>>>=20 >>>>=20 >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>=20 >>>> netmod mailing list >>>>=20 >>>> netmod@ietf.org >>>>=20 >>>> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/netmod >>>>=20 >>>>=20 >>>>=20 >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>=20 >>>> netmod mailing list >>>>=20 >>>> netmod@ietf.org >>>>=20 >>>> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/netmod >>>>=20 >>>>=20 >>>>=20 >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>=20 >>>> netmod mailing list >>>>=20 >>>> netmod@ietf.org >>>>=20 >>>> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/netmod >>>>=20 >>>>=20 >>>> -- >>>>=20 >>>> Ladislav Lhotka, CZ.NIC Labs >>>>=20 >>>> PGP Key ID: E74E8C0C >>>>=20 >>>>=20 >>>>=20 >>>>=20 >>>>=20 >>>>=20 >>>>=20 >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> netmod mailing list >>>> netmod@ietf.org >>>> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/netmod >>>>=20 >>>>=20 >>>>=20 >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> netmod mailing list >>>> netmod@ietf.org >>>> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/netmod >>>>=20 >>>>=20 >>>=20 >>> _______________________________________________ >>> netmod mailing list >>> netmod@ietf.org >>> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/netmod >>>=20 >> _______________________________________________ >> netmod mailing list >> netmod@ietf.org >> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/netmod >=20 > --=20 > Balazs Lengyel Ericsson Hungary Ltd. > Senior Specialist > ECN: 831 7320 Tel: +36-1-437-7320 > Mobile: +36-70-330-7909 email: Balazs.Lengyel@ericsson.com >=20 > _______________________________________________ > netmod mailing list > netmod@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/netmod From nobody Wed Nov 5 08:20:28 2014 Return-Path: X-Original-To: netmod@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: netmod@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4369F1A8974 for ; 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Wed, 5 Nov 2014 17:20:14 +0100 Message-ID: <545A4E3E.9060403@ericsson.com> Date: Wed, 5 Nov 2014 17:20:14 +0100 From: Balazs Lengyel User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 6.1; WOW64; rv:24.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/24.6.0 MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Dean Bogdanovic References: <79054E89-2D09-4461-8D35-8F6FA025B71F@nic.cz> <43060BE7-53EA-4B9D-B778-2FED58C0D60C@lucidvision.com> <52AE09CB-D4AB-4421-BBA4-1D9C45EA6957@gmail.com> <54590195.3010903@cisco.com> <54595361.5000907@cisco.com> <545A431F.8010401@ericsson.com> In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/html; charset="windows-1252" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Brightmail-Tracker: H4sIAAAAAAAAA+NgFjrELMWRmVeSWpSXmKPExsUyM+Jvja69X1SIwedVUhYPjsxitzj6WMLi cfscZov5FxtZLZ7PmcniwOox5fdGVo8lS34yeVxvusru8eXyZzaPlv6LLAGsUVw2Kak5mWWp Rfp2CVwZn9ZOZyw4WFhxdOICtgbGAxFdjBwcEgImEtMWxHQxcgKZYhIX7q1n62Lk4hASOMIo sXPdZChnNaPEn7dzWUCqeAW0JT6fbWYGaWYRUJE4PS0JJMwmYCQxtf88WImoQJTEnUv9rBDl ghInZz4Bi4sIqEvsfTwXbCazwBJGiTfLz7ODJIQFdCSOfXwDtayVVeL5zFYWkAWcAvYS279z gtQwC+hLXL9znxXClpdo3jqbGcQWEtCQeHjhL+sERsFZSPbNQtIyC0nLAkbmVYyixanFSbnp RkZ6qUWZycXF+Xl6eaklmxiBgX5wy2+DHYwvnzseYhTgYFTi4d0wKTJEiDWxrLgy9xCjNAeL kjjvwnPzgoUE0hNLUrNTUwtSi+KLSnNSiw8xMnFwSjUwyv56vP7flvmlk26s2CCR99BFy/ZH unmr86V5E1aHSFT7vBD22pdsc2bR50nVKzb+5vu+/puB+qP3vg+2BJWb1ff1X/ja2bZ/s9BW Rg6bJZuKTadM3PWbPybG3XDt3+ZZ26LjH7g/7zRiZuN5mXjmnKLvJo39z5cZsy49b+v3Jkp2 +Vy/pfI6IkosxRmJhlrMRcWJACf4TlpVAgAA Archived-At: http://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/netmod/0f0cU3GWfz_Y03jH9waUuiIIgVs Cc: "netmod@ietf.org" , "rtg-ads@tools.ietf.org" Subject: Re: [netmod] IETF91 NETMOD agenda ? X-BeenThere: netmod@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: NETMOD WG list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 05 Nov 2014 16:20:25 -0000 "And what do you hope to achieve with this? You'll hear 1 or 2 sentence per draft and probably will not get more info."
Yes, thats exactly what I would like, an overview of the modeling work  in YANG. Note everyone is up to date with what models are out there. It also helps motivate people to take YANG more seriously.
Actually a written list with the same information would be nearly as good.
regards Balazs


On 2014-11-05 17:13, Dean Bogdanovic wrote:
On Nov 5, 2014, at 10:32 AM, Balazs Lengyel <balazs.lengyel@ericsson.com> wrote:


Hello,
A very short overview would be good. All drafts by workgroup in 15 minutes.
regards Balazs

And what do you hope to achieve with this? You'll hear 1 or 2 sentence per draft and probably will not get more info. It would be much more efficient to block some time at the end of the meeting on Friday and setup Q&A with authors. Then for people who have interest in a particular draft can get answers and if needed continue conversation after the meeting.

Dean


On 2014-11-05 00:20, Andy Bierman wrote:

On Tue, Nov 4, 2014 at 2:29 PM, Benoit Claise <bclaise@cisco.com> wrote:

Mahesh,

Benoit,

I was going to give a quick update on the BFD YANG model, which is being
presented/discussed in its own WG.

I wonder which ideal outcome you want a presentation in the NETMOD WG?

Here's the list of drafts that have normative or unclassified references to
YANG:

draft-vanderstok-core-comi-05                     2014-10-27  Active
draft-shi-alto-yang-json-00                       2014-10-27  Active
draft-shi-alto-yang-model-00                      2014-10-27  Active
draft-netmod-clemm-datastore-push-00              2014-10-27  Active
draft-wildes-netmod-syslog-model-05               2014-10-27  Active
draft-zhang-nvo3-yang-active-active-cfg-00        2014-10-27  Active
draft-zaalouk-supa-configuration-model-01         2014-10-27  Active
draft-wang-lime-rpc-yang-oam-management-00        2014-10-27  Active
draft-vergara-flexigrid-yang-00                   2014-10-27  Active
draft-gandhi-mpls-te-yang-model-01                2014-10-27  Active
draft-txh-opsawg-lime-gap-analysis-01             2014-10-27  Active
draft-zheng-netmod-xmi-yang-translation-00        2014-10-27  Active
draft-chen-i2rs-mpls-ldp-info-model-00            2014-10-27  Active
draft-tripathy-cloud-sla-yang-model-00            2014-10-27  Active
draft-clemm-i2rs-yang-l3-topo-00                  2014-10-27  Active
draft-contreras-supa-yang-network-topo-01         2014-10-27  Active
draft-wang-yang-bfd-oam-00                        2014-10-27  Active
draft-ietf-netconf-server-model-04                2014-10-26  Active
draft-ietf-isis-yang-isis-cfg-01                  2014-10-26  Active
draft-shen-l2tpext-l2tpv3-yang-model-00           2014-10-26  Active
draft-ietf-netmod-routing-cfg-16                  2014-10-26  Active
draft-shaikh-idr-bgp-model-00                     2014-10-26  Active
draft-ietf-netconf-restconf-03                    2014-10-25  Active
draft-pkd-pce-pcep-yang-01                        2014-10-25  Active
draft-sarikaya-dmm-for-wifi-01                    2014-10-24  Active
draft-voit-netmod-peer-mount-requirements-01      2014-10-24  Active
draft-shi-model-json-msg-yang-00                  2014-10-24  Active
draft-liu-pim-igmp-mld-yang-00                    2014-10-23  Active
draft-ietf-netmod-rfc6087bis-01                   2014-10-23  Active
draft-liu-pim-yang-00                             2014-10-23  Active
draft-asechoud-netmod-diffserv-model-00           2014-10-22  Active
draft-dong-i2rs-l2-network-topology-00            2014-10-21  Active
draft-bierman-netconf-efficiency-extensions-02    2014-10-21  Active
draft-zhang-nvo3-yang-cfg-00                      2014-10-21  Active
draft-sun-softwire-yang-00                        2014-10-20  Active
draft-yeung-netmod-ospf-02                        2014-10-14  Active
draft-ietf-netmod-yang-json-01                    2014-10-13  Active
draft-clemm-i2rs-yang-network-topo-01             2014-10-10  Active
draft-ietf-netconf-call-home-01                   2014-10-10  Active
draft-bogdanovic-netmod-acl-model-02              2014-10-08  Active
draft-clemm-netmod-mount-02                       2014-10-07  Active
draft-zhdankin-netmod-bgp-cfg-01                  2014-10-02  Active
draft-wang-i2rs-ospf-dm-00                        2014-09-26  Active
draft-bhuvan-bmwg-of-controller-benchmarking-01   2014-09-25  Active
draft-zhang-mpls-tp-yang-oam-00                   2014-09-25  Active
draft-bierman-netmod-yang-conformance-04          2014-09-24  Active
draft-ietf-netmod-snmp-cfg-08                     2014-09-18  In IESG
processing - ID Tracker state <RFC Ed Queue>
draft-frank-netconf-conformance-00                2014-09-16  Active
draft-haas-i2rs-netmod-netconf-requirements-00    2014-09-12  Active
draft-lhotka-netmod-yang-metadata-00              2014-09-11  Active
draft-schoenw-lmap-yang-01                        2014-09-02  Active
draft-zhuang-l2vpn-yang-cfg-00                    2014-08-24  Active
draft-zhuang-l2vpn-evpn-yang-cfg-00               2014-08-16  Active
draft-chen-mpls-ldp-yang-cfg-00                   2014-08-15  Active
draft-chen-mpls-te-yang-cfg-00                    2014-08-15  Active
draft-zhuang-l3vpn-yang-cfg-00                    2014-08-15  Active
draft-scharf-alto-yang-00                         2014-07-04  Active
draft-yang-netmod-location-00                     2014-07-04  Active
draft-fang-l3vpn-virtual-pe-05                    2014-07-04  Active
draft-mekking-dnsop-kasp-00                       2014-07-04  Active
draft-xjz-opsawg-nfvmodel-00                      2014-07-04  Active
draft-liu-netmod-yang-abstract-topo-00            2014-07-03  Active
draft-ietf-netconf-yang-patch-01                  2014-07-03  Active
draft-zheng-netmod-integrate-operations-00        2014-07-02  Active
draft-liu-netconf-multi-instances-00              2014-07-02  Active
draft-litkowski-isis-yang-isis-cfg-01             2014-06-27  Active
draft-litkowski-netmod-isis-cfg-00                2014-06-17  Active
draft-lonvick-private-tax-08                      2014-06-09  Active
draft-tp-i2rs-yang-00                             2014-05-08  Active

That could be a lot of updates...
I believe we should focus on the YANG models that don't have an existing WG.


I would prefer to spend all the meeting time
trying to discuss open issues in chartered items.  I don't see why
the NETMOD WG needs to spend time on status reports for
any unchartered work.

I don't agree that NETMOD WG should be the home of SYSLOG
or any other protocol specific data models. IMO all those type of drafts
should try to find a home in a protocol WG with the right experts.



Andy




Reminder: A good avenue for any YANG models is
http://www.ietf.org/meeting/91/tutorials/yang-session.html

Regards, Benoit




On Tue Nov 04 2014 at 8:40:55 AM Benoit Claise <bclaise@cisco.com> wrote:

Mahesh,

Not sure what exactly you want to present but let me draw your attention
that the routing-related modules should be taken care of in their respective
WG. See
http://www.ietf.org/mail-archive/web/rtg-yang-coord/current/msg00094.html

Regards, Benoit

Tom,

I am giving an update on the BFD YANG model in the BFD WG. I can give a
quick update (~1-2min) in NETMOD if such an update is desired.

Mahesh Jethanandani
mjethanandani@gmail.com

On Oct 23, 2014, at 1:43 PM, "Thomas D. Nadeau" <tnadeau@lucidvision.com>
wrote:


   We have plenty of runway in the agenda right now so I will put it down
as two items. We reserved two slots because I feel its important to
encourage discussion during the face2face meetings so insofar as I can, I
want to give you enough runway to discuss this in detail.

   --Tom


On Oct 23, 2014:12:13 PM, at 12:13 PM, Ladislav Lhotka <lhotka@nic.cz>
wrote:


Hi,


apart from the two WG items draft-ietf-netmod-routing-cfg-16 (to be
submitted) and draft-ietf-netmod-yang-json-01, I’d like to discuss the draft
and draft-lhotka-netmod-yang-metadata-00. I think 5 minutes would be enough
for the latter, I could even do it together with yang-json.


Thanks, Lada


On 23 Oct 2014, at 18:02, Andy Bierman <andy@yumaworks.com> wrote:




On Tue, Oct 21, 2014 at 2:34 PM, Thomas D. Nadeau
<tnadeau@lucidvision.com> wrote:


   Not yet. Please propose topics.



I would like 15 min. to discuss YANG conformance issues, specified in this
draft:

http://www.ietf.org/id/draft-bierman-netmod-yang-conformance-04.txt


These issues may get resolved in the NETCONF YANG 1.1 virtual interim

meeting next week. If not, this topic should be discussed at the IETF
meeting.



   —Tom


Andy




On Oct 21, 2014:5:32 PM, at 5:32 PM, Sterne, Jason (Jason)
<jason.sterne@alcatel-lucent.com> wrote:


Hi all,


Is there a preliminary agenda for the two NETMOD sessions at IETF91 ?


Some thought about topics being split between the 1st (longer) and 2nd
(shorter) sessions ?


Thanks,

Jason


_______________________________________________

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https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/netmod



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netmod@ietf.org

https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/netmod



_______________________________________________

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https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/netmod


--

Ladislav Lhotka, CZ.NIC Labs

PGP Key ID: E74E8C0C







_______________________________________________
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https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/netmod



_______________________________________________
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https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/netmod



_______________________________________________
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netmod@ietf.org
https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/netmod


_______________________________________________
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-- 
Balazs Lengyel                       Ericsson Hungary Ltd.
Senior Specialist
ECN: 831 7320                        Tel: +36-1-437-7320
Mobile: +36-70-330-7909              email: Balazs.Lengyel@ericsson.com

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-- 
Balazs Lengyel                       Ericsson Hungary Ltd.
Senior Specialist
ECN: 831 7320                        Tel: +36-1-437-7320
Mobile: +36-70-330-7909              email: Balazs.Lengyel@ericsson.com
From nobody Wed Nov 5 08:24:37 2014 Return-Path: X-Original-To: netmod@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: netmod@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id DFAFF1A8974 for ; Wed, 5 Nov 2014 08:24:35 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.979 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.979 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, FM_FORGED_GMAIL=0.622, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW=-0.7, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id Qe7F1twS_T6K for ; Wed, 5 Nov 2014 08:24:34 -0800 (PST) Received: from mail-qa0-f42.google.com (mail-qa0-f42.google.com [209.85.216.42]) (using TLSv1 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-RC4-SHA (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id D08E11A898F for ; Wed, 5 Nov 2014 08:24:33 -0800 (PST) Received: by mail-qa0-f42.google.com with SMTP id k15so738258qaq.29 for ; Wed, 05 Nov 2014 08:24:33 -0800 (PST) X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20130820; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:in-reply-to:references:date :message-id:subject:from:to:content-type; bh=QfNkGBXbsgcB/QGRq7UcY+DscEN7tM1SO66zBpmbtvY=; b=MFwvJPDgOLR4yCyHm4Q+82PA4J6ublVGcnVLP8BamwRUbB157slyj/LU6XKA2NwaSr CkqXvfdCpAdagNgfiVX++MJoEI4uVIVTKHgmO6ZulBu9KnH3awmj9Y4liKhazbgdnrjE 0WRB1JQ5D3Y+e4HyoWciGfM9/farSgYwhFb4U/4gfS9gjZ9y3IaOdnCMp0cpbYyZF+VN pAtg+Dq/Msc8MFj8wEtiHtnpSkaw6kZIfr3mUYomvXU6rB4uLzUKTFEgOuQUxad4cY8q Hdpq6PBMHMDS6QyD7b3pgyLOAYJ9+yepo1S/L13JfwRak5OpzNV39/TxmQDp4mKHccwZ Z4PA== X-Gm-Message-State: ALoCoQma1f8EEfxIc0zxclTs2OTZ5zoDrqhMEYjMV3pGkj9bjasD9xnVd1kp9ReVH2kaq/l1zqjP MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Received: by 10.224.28.133 with SMTP id m5mr86932250qac.7.1415204672869; Wed, 05 Nov 2014 08:24:32 -0800 (PST) Received: by 10.140.37.52 with HTTP; Wed, 5 Nov 2014 08:24:31 -0800 (PST) In-Reply-To: <20141105140817.GA24310@elstar.local> References: <20141105140817.GA24310@elstar.local> Date: Wed, 5 Nov 2014 08:24:31 -0800 Message-ID: From: Andy Bierman To: Juergen Schoenwaelder , "netmod@ietf.org" Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Archived-At: http://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/netmod/qc4Xu2_FIKma8Ge93GQ6CWxKsCA Subject: Re: [netmod] VRFY :Y13: allow multiple inheritance for identities X-BeenThere: netmod@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: NETMOD WG list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 05 Nov 2014 16:24:36 -0000 Hi, IMO this new feature is very complicated and I don't really understand why it is really needed. Are there other examples besides the one shown in solution Y13-01? A YANG compiler needs to check every possible path for loops. Each node in the "identity tree" that has multiple bases effectively created multiple paths back to the root. All paths have to be checked. Finding all identities that have the same set of tags may not be easy (for tools or the operator to understand). Can you identify some existing YANG modules where the designers wanted to use multiple bases for an identityref? Andy On Wed, Nov 5, 2014 at 6:08 AM, Juergen Schoenwaelder wrote: > The 2014-10-15 virtual interim meeting proposal is to adopt Y13-01. > Please speak up by Wednesday 2014-11-12 if you disagree with this > proposal. > > For more details, see the issues list and the virtual interim meeting > minutes available here: > > http://svn.tools.ietf.org/svn/wg/netmod/yang-1.1/ > > /js > > -- > Juergen Schoenwaelder Jacobs University Bremen gGmbH > Phone: +49 421 200 3587 Campus Ring 1, 28759 Bremen, Germany > Fax: +49 421 200 3103 > > _______________________________________________ > netmod mailing list > netmod@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/netmod From nobody Wed Nov 5 09:26:34 2014 Return-Path: X-Original-To: netmod@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: netmod@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 86FFD1A8F3A; Wed, 5 Nov 2014 09:26:30 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -101.9 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-101.9 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, USER_IN_WHITELIST=-100] autolearn=ham Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id BvqOOCK-UOr6; Wed, 5 Nov 2014 09:26:29 -0800 (PST) Received: from ietfa.amsl.com (localhost [IPv6:::1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7B7301A8BBF; Wed, 5 Nov 2014 09:26:29 -0800 (PST) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: IESG Secretary To: IETF Announcement List X-Test-IDTracker: no X-IETF-IDTracker: 5.7.2.p1 Auto-Submitted: auto-generated Precedence: bulk Message-ID: <20141105172629.22779.69121.idtracker@ietfa.amsl.com> Date: Wed, 05 Nov 2014 09:26:29 -0800 Archived-At: http://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/netmod/jdV88oc0MatZbcHwP8hj2xv6Ng4 Cc: netmod@ietf.org Subject: [netmod] NETMOD WG Virtual Interim Meeting Series Starting November 19, 2014 X-BeenThere: netmod@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Reply-To: netmod@ietf.org List-Id: NETMOD WG list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 05 Nov 2014 17:26:30 -0000 The NETMOD WG will hold a series of bi-weekly virtual interim meetings. The meetings will take place on Wednesdays between 16:00 and 18:00 CEST. The first meeting will be on Wednesday 2014-11-19. The agenda is to iterate over the YANG 1.1 issues list with the goal to close open issues until all issues have been resolved. The virtual interim meetings will continue bi-weekly until either all issues have been closed or 2015-03-18 has passed (and we will skip the last day of the year). The dates for the meetings are: 2014-11-19 2014-12-03 2014-12-17 2015-01-07 2015-01-21 2015-02-04 2015-02-18 2015-03-04 2015-03-18 Additional information will be announced on the NETMOD mailing list: http://www.ietf.org/mail-archive/web/netmod/current/maillist.html From nobody Wed Nov 5 11:14:49 2014 Return-Path: X-Original-To: netmod@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: netmod@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2F9ED1A1A57 for ; Wed, 5 Nov 2014 11:14:47 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.901 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.901 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, SPF_HELO_PASS=-0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id hc6iUrP9vEnY for ; Wed, 5 Nov 2014 11:14:42 -0800 (PST) Received: from na01-bl2-obe.outbound.protection.outlook.com (mail-bl2on0117.outbound.protection.outlook.com [65.55.169.117]) (using TLSv1 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 5D76D1A1BE4 for ; Wed, 5 Nov 2014 11:14:42 -0800 (PST) Received: from BN1PR05MB424.namprd05.prod.outlook.com (10.141.58.148) by BN1PR05MB424.namprd05.prod.outlook.com (10.141.58.148) with Microsoft SMTP Server (TLS) id 15.1.11.14; Wed, 5 Nov 2014 19:14:39 +0000 Received: from BN1PR05MB424.namprd05.prod.outlook.com ([169.254.8.103]) by BN1PR05MB424.namprd05.prod.outlook.com ([169.254.8.103]) with mapi id 15.01.0011.000; Wed, 5 Nov 2014 19:14:39 +0000 From: Dean Bogdanovic To: Balazs Lengyel Thread-Topic: [netmod] IETF91 NETMOD agenda ? Thread-Index: Ac/tdoGexyGw623TR4igNJSWn+KnzAAAEYeAAFj9foAAAGUuAAADI+uAAMtH7IABjgXXgAALudyHAAB2coAAAcSygAAh9L6AAAFq2AAAAD1kAAAGFxyA Date: Wed, 5 Nov 2014 19:14:39 +0000 Message-ID: References: <79054E89-2D09-4461-8D35-8F6FA025B71F@nic.cz> <43060BE7-53EA-4B9D-B778-2FED58C0D60C@lucidvision.com> <52AE09CB-D4AB-4421-BBA4-1D9C45EA6957@gmail.com> <54590195.3010903@cisco.com> <54595361.5000907@cisco.com> <545A431F.8010401@ericsson.com> <545A4E3E.9060403@ericsson.com> In-Reply-To: <545A4E3E.9060403@ericsson.com> Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-mailer: Apple Mail (2.1510) x-ms-exchange-transport-fromentityheader: Hosted x-originating-ip: [66.129.241.11] x-microsoft-antispam: BCL:0;PCL:0;RULEID:;SRVR:BN1PR05MB424; x-exchange-antispam-report-test: UriScan:; x-forefront-prvs: 0386B406AA x-forefront-antispam-report: SFV:NSPM; SFS:(10019020)(252514010)(189002)(377454003)(199003)(24454002)(164054003)(53754006)(377424004)(21056001)(110136001)(15975445006)(575784001)(86362001)(92566001)(50226001)(15202345003)(93916002)(89996001)(122556002)(50986999)(76176999)(40100003)(36756003)(66066001)(19580395003)(83716003)(87286001)(82746002)(31966008)(46102003)(16236675004)(19580405001)(4396001)(19617315012)(87936001)(88136002)(92726001)(2656002)(64706001)(20776003)(77096003)(62966003)(77156002)(33656002)(95666004)(99286002)(107046002)(120916001)(99396003)(93886004)(105586002)(57306001)(101416001)(104166001)(106356001)(97736003)(104396001); DIR:OUT; SFP:1102; SCL:1; SRVR:BN1PR05MB424; H:BN1PR05MB424.namprd05.prod.outlook.com; FPR:; MLV:sfv; PTR:InfoNoRecords; MX:1; A:1; LANG:en; Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="_000_B1659FC573ED4E11803EA61BEEBA6CE5junipernet_" MIME-Version: 1.0 X-OriginatorOrg: juniper.net Archived-At: http://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/netmod/RXeY4eu3RoM43xEondGdptF5LRc Cc: "netmod@ietf.org" , "rtg-ads@tools.ietf.org" Subject: Re: [netmod] IETF91 NETMOD agenda ? X-BeenThere: netmod@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: NETMOD WG list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 05 Nov 2014 19:14:47 -0000 --_000_B1659FC573ED4E11803EA61BEEBA6CE5junipernet_ Content-Type: text/plain; charset="Windows-1252" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Balazs, Why would be hard for anyone to look through the list, based on the title d= ecide what is interesting, look up the draft online and read the introducti= on chapter? Knowing our capability to end things on time, highly doubt that= we could go through 70 drafts in 15 minutes. Dean On Nov 5, 2014, at 11:20 AM, Balazs Lengyel > wrote: "And what do you hope to achieve with this? You'll hear 1 or 2 sentence per= draft and probably will not get more info." Yes, thats exactly what I would like, an overview of the modeling work in = YANG. Note everyone is up to date with what models are out there. It also h= elps motivate people to take YANG more seriously. Actually a written list with the same information would be nearly as good. regards Balazs On 2014-11-05 17:13, Dean Bogdanovic wrote: On Nov 5, 2014, at 10:32 AM, Balazs Lengyel wrote: Hello, A very short overview would be good. All drafts by workgroup in 15 minutes. regards Balazs And what do you hope to achieve with this? You'll hear 1 or 2 sentence per = draft and probably will not get more info. It would be much more efficient = to block some time at the end of the meeting on Friday and setup Q&A with a= uthors. Then for people who have interest in a particular draft can get ans= wers and if needed continue conversation after the meeting. Dean On 2014-11-05 00:20, Andy Bierman wrote: On Tue, Nov 4, 2014 at 2:29 PM, Benoit Claise wrote: Mahesh, Benoit, I was going to give a quick update on the BFD YANG model, which is being presented/discussed in its own WG. I wonder which ideal outcome you want a presentation in the NETMOD WG? Here's the list of drafts that have normative or unclassified references to YANG: draft-vanderstok-core-comi-05 2014-10-27 Active draft-shi-alto-yang-json-00 2014-10-27 Active draft-shi-alto-yang-model-00 2014-10-27 Active draft-netmod-clemm-datastore-push-00 2014-10-27 Active draft-wildes-netmod-syslog-model-05 2014-10-27 Active draft-zhang-nvo3-yang-active-active-cfg-00 2014-10-27 Active draft-zaalouk-supa-configuration-model-01 2014-10-27 Active draft-wang-lime-rpc-yang-oam-management-00 2014-10-27 Active draft-vergara-flexigrid-yang-00 2014-10-27 Active draft-gandhi-mpls-te-yang-model-01 2014-10-27 Active draft-txh-opsawg-lime-gap-analysis-01 2014-10-27 Active draft-zheng-netmod-xmi-yang-translation-00 2014-10-27 Active draft-chen-i2rs-mpls-ldp-info-model-00 2014-10-27 Active draft-tripathy-cloud-sla-yang-model-00 2014-10-27 Active draft-clemm-i2rs-yang-l3-topo-00 2014-10-27 Active draft-contreras-supa-yang-network-topo-01 2014-10-27 Active draft-wang-yang-bfd-oam-00 2014-10-27 Active draft-ietf-netconf-server-model-04 2014-10-26 Active draft-ietf-isis-yang-isis-cfg-01 2014-10-26 Active draft-shen-l2tpext-l2tpv3-yang-model-00 2014-10-26 Active draft-ietf-netmod-routing-cfg-16 2014-10-26 Active draft-shaikh-idr-bgp-model-00 2014-10-26 Active draft-ietf-netconf-restconf-03 2014-10-25 Active draft-pkd-pce-pcep-yang-01 2014-10-25 Active draft-sarikaya-dmm-for-wifi-01 2014-10-24 Active draft-voit-netmod-peer-mount-requirements-01 2014-10-24 Active draft-shi-model-json-msg-yang-00 2014-10-24 Active draft-liu-pim-igmp-mld-yang-00 2014-10-23 Active draft-ietf-netmod-rfc6087bis-01 2014-10-23 Active draft-liu-pim-yang-00 2014-10-23 Active draft-asechoud-netmod-diffserv-model-00 2014-10-22 Active draft-dong-i2rs-l2-network-topology-00 2014-10-21 Active draft-bierman-netconf-efficiency-extensions-02 2014-10-21 Active draft-zhang-nvo3-yang-cfg-00 2014-10-21 Active draft-sun-softwire-yang-00 2014-10-20 Active draft-yeung-netmod-ospf-02 2014-10-14 Active draft-ietf-netmod-yang-json-01 2014-10-13 Active draft-clemm-i2rs-yang-network-topo-01 2014-10-10 Active draft-ietf-netconf-call-home-01 2014-10-10 Active draft-bogdanovic-netmod-acl-model-02 2014-10-08 Active draft-clemm-netmod-mount-02 2014-10-07 Active draft-zhdankin-netmod-bgp-cfg-01 2014-10-02 Active draft-wang-i2rs-ospf-dm-00 2014-09-26 Active draft-bhuvan-bmwg-of-controller-benchmarking-01 2014-09-25 Active draft-zhang-mpls-tp-yang-oam-00 2014-09-25 Active draft-bierman-netmod-yang-conformance-04 2014-09-24 Active draft-ietf-netmod-snmp-cfg-08 2014-09-18 In IESG processing - ID Tracker state draft-frank-netconf-conformance-00 2014-09-16 Active draft-haas-i2rs-netmod-netconf-requirements-00 2014-09-12 Active draft-lhotka-netmod-yang-metadata-00 2014-09-11 Active draft-schoenw-lmap-yang-01 2014-09-02 Active draft-zhuang-l2vpn-yang-cfg-00 2014-08-24 Active draft-zhuang-l2vpn-evpn-yang-cfg-00 2014-08-16 Active draft-chen-mpls-ldp-yang-cfg-00 2014-08-15 Active draft-chen-mpls-te-yang-cfg-00 2014-08-15 Active draft-zhuang-l3vpn-yang-cfg-00 2014-08-15 Active draft-scharf-alto-yang-00 2014-07-04 Active draft-yang-netmod-location-00 2014-07-04 Active draft-fang-l3vpn-virtual-pe-05 2014-07-04 Active draft-mekking-dnsop-kasp-00 2014-07-04 Active draft-xjz-opsawg-nfvmodel-00 2014-07-04 Active draft-liu-netmod-yang-abstract-topo-00 2014-07-03 Active draft-ietf-netconf-yang-patch-01 2014-07-03 Active draft-zheng-netmod-integrate-operations-00 2014-07-02 Active draft-liu-netconf-multi-instances-00 2014-07-02 Active draft-litkowski-isis-yang-isis-cfg-01 2014-06-27 Active draft-litkowski-netmod-isis-cfg-00 2014-06-17 Active draft-lonvick-private-tax-08 2014-06-09 Active draft-tp-i2rs-yang-00 2014-05-08 Active That could be a lot of updates... I believe we should focus on the YANG models that don't have an existing WG= . I would prefer to spend all the meeting time trying to discuss open issues in chartered items. I don't see why the NETMOD WG needs to spend time on status reports for any unchartered work. I don't agree that NETMOD WG should be the home of SYSLOG or any other protocol specific data models. IMO all those type of drafts should try to find a home in a protocol WG with the right experts. Andy Reminder: A good avenue for any YANG models is http://www.ietf.org/meeting/91/tutorials/yang-session.html Regards, Benoit On Tue Nov 04 2014 at 8:40:55 AM Benoit Claise wrote: Mahesh, Not sure what exactly you want to present but let me draw your attention that the routing-related modules should be taken care of in their respectiv= e WG. See http://www.ietf.org/mail-archive/web/rtg-yang-coord/current/msg00094.html Regards, Benoit Tom, I am giving an update on the BFD YANG model in the BFD WG. I can give a quick update (~1-2min) in NETMOD if such an update is desired. Mahesh Jethanandani mjethanandani@gmail.com On Oct 23, 2014, at 1:43 PM, "Thomas D. Nadeau" wrote: We have plenty of runway in the agenda right now so I will put it down as two items. We reserved two slots because I feel its important to encourage discussion during the face2face meetings so insofar as I can, I want to give you enough runway to discuss this in detail. --Tom On Oct 23, 2014:12:13 PM, at 12:13 PM, Ladislav Lhotka wrote: Hi, apart from the two WG items draft-ietf-netmod-routing-cfg-16 (to be submitted) and draft-ietf-netmod-yang-json-01, I=92d like to discuss the dr= aft and draft-lhotka-netmod-yang-metadata-00. I think 5 minutes would be enough for the latter, I could even do it together with yang-json. Thanks, Lada On 23 Oct 2014, at 18:02, Andy Bierman wrote: On Tue, Oct 21, 2014 at 2:34 PM, Thomas D. Nadeau wrote: Not yet. Please propose topics. I would like 15 min. to discuss YANG conformance issues, specified in this draft: http://www.ietf.org/id/draft-bierman-netmod-yang-conformance-04.txt These issues may get resolved in the NETCONF YANG 1.1 virtual interim meeting next week. If not, this topic should be discussed at the IETF meeting. =97Tom Andy On Oct 21, 2014:5:32 PM, at 5:32 PM, Sterne, Jason (Jason) w= rote: Hi all, Is there a preliminary agenda for the two NETMOD sessions at IETF91 ? Some thought about topics being split between the 1st (longer) and 2nd (shorter) sessions ? Thanks, Jason _______________________________________________ netmod mailing list netmod@ietf.org https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/netmod _______________________________________________ netmod mailing list netmod@ietf.org https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/netmod _______________________________________________ netmod mailing list netmod@ietf.org https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/netmod -- Ladislav Lhotka, CZ.NIC Labs PGP Key ID: E74E8C0C _______________________________________________ netmod mailing list netmod@ietf.org https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/netmod _______________________________________________ netmod mailing list netmod@ietf.org https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/netmod _______________________________________________ netmod mailing list netmod@ietf.org https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/netmod _______________________________________________ netmod mailing list netmod@ietf.org https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/netmod -- Balazs Lengyel Ericsson Hungary Ltd. Senior Specialist ECN: 831 7320 Tel: +36-1-437-7320 Mobile: +36-70-330-7909 email: Balazs.Lengyel@ericsson.com _______________________________________________ netmod mailing list netmod@ietf.org https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/netmod -- Balazs Lengyel Ericsson Hungary Ltd. Senior Specialist ECN: 831 7320 Tel: +36-1-437-7320 Mobile: +36-70-330-7909 email: Balazs.Lengyel@ericsson.com --_000_B1659FC573ED4E11803EA61BEEBA6CE5junipernet_ Content-Type: text/html; charset="Windows-1252" Content-ID: <0382467668A8F741AC32D201033A8282@namprd05.prod.outlook.com> Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Balazs,

Why would be hard for anyone to look through the list, based on the ti= tle decide what is interesting, look up the draft online and read the intro= duction chapter? Knowing our capability to end things on time, highly doubt= that we could go through 70 drafts in 15 minutes.

Dean

On Nov 5, 2014, at 11:20 AM, Balazs Lengyel <balazs.lengyel@ericsson.com> wrote:

"And what do you hope = to achieve with this? You'll hear 1 or 2 sentence per draft and probably wi= ll not get more info."
Yes, thats exactly what I would like, an overview of the modeling work = ; in YANG. Note everyone is up to date with what models are out there. It a= lso helps motivate people to take YANG more seriously.
Actually a written list with the same information would be nearly as good.<= br> regards Balazs


On 2014-11-05 17:13, Dean Bogdanovic wrote:<= br> 
On Nov 5, 2014, at 10:32 AM, Balazs Lengyel <balazs.l=
engyel@ericsson.com> wrote:


Hello,
A very short overview would be good. All drafts by workgroup in 15 minutes.
regards Balazs

And what do you hope to achieve with this? You'll hear 1 or =
2 sentence per draft and probably will not get more info. It would be much =
more efficient to block some time at the end of the meeting on Friday and s=
etup Q&A with authors. Then for people who have interest in a particula=
r draft can get answers and if needed continue conversation after the meeti=
ng.

Dean


On 2014-11-05 00:20, Andy Bierman wrote:

On Tue, Nov 4, 2014 at 2:29 PM, Benoit Claise <bclaise@cisco.co=
m> wrote:

Mahesh,

Benoit,

I was going to give a quick update on the BFD YANG model, which is being
presented/discussed in its own WG.

I wonder which ideal outcome you want a presentation in the NETMOD WG?

Here's the list of drafts that have normative or unclassified references to
YANG:

draft-vanderstok-core-comi-05                     2014-10-27  Active
draft-shi-alto-yang-json-00                       2014-10-27  Active
draft-shi-alto-yang-model-00                      2014-10-27  Active
draft-netmod-clemm-datastore-push-00              2014-10-27  Active
draft-wildes-netmod-syslog-model-05               2014-10-27  Active
draft-zhang-nvo3-yang-active-active-cfg-00        2014-10-27  Active
draft-zaalouk-supa-configuration-model-01         2014-10-27  Active
draft-wang-lime-rpc-yang-oam-management-00        2014-10-27  Active
draft-vergara-flexigrid-yang-00                   2014-10-27  Active
draft-gandhi-mpls-te-yang-model-01                2014-10-27  Active
draft-txh-opsawg-lime-gap-analysis-01             2014-10-27  Active
draft-zheng-netmod-xmi-yang-translation-00        2014-10-27  Active
draft-chen-i2rs-mpls-ldp-info-model-00            2014-10-27  Active
draft-tripathy-cloud-sla-yang-model-00            2014-10-27  Active
draft-clemm-i2rs-yang-l3-topo-00                  2014-10-27  Active
draft-contreras-supa-yang-network-topo-01         2014-10-27  Active
draft-wang-yang-bfd-oam-00                        2014-10-27  Active
draft-ietf-netconf-server-model-04                2014-10-26  Active
draft-ietf-isis-yang-isis-cfg-01                  2014-10-26  Active
draft-shen-l2tpext-l2tpv3-yang-model-00           2014-10-26  Active
draft-ietf-netmod-routing-cfg-16                  2014-10-26  Active
draft-shaikh-idr-bgp-model-00                     2014-10-26  Active
draft-ietf-netconf-restconf-03                    2014-10-25  Active
draft-pkd-pce-pcep-yang-01                        2014-10-25  Active
draft-sarikaya-dmm-for-wifi-01                    2014-10-24  Active
draft-voit-netmod-peer-mount-requirements-01      2014-10-24  Active
draft-shi-model-json-msg-yang-00                  2014-10-24  Active
draft-liu-pim-igmp-mld-yang-00                    2014-10-23  Active
draft-ietf-netmod-rfc6087bis-01                   2014-10-23  Active
draft-liu-pim-yang-00                             2014-10-23  Active
draft-asechoud-netmod-diffserv-model-00           2014-10-22  Active
draft-dong-i2rs-l2-network-topology-00            2014-10-21  Active
draft-bierman-netconf-efficiency-extensions-02    2014-10-21  Active
draft-zhang-nvo3-yang-cfg-00                      2014-10-21  Active
draft-sun-softwire-yang-00                        2014-10-20  Active
draft-yeung-netmod-ospf-02                        2014-10-14  Active
draft-ietf-netmod-yang-json-01                    2014-10-13  Active
draft-clemm-i2rs-yang-network-topo-01             2014-10-10  Active
draft-ietf-netconf-call-home-01                   2014-10-10  Active
draft-bogdanovic-netmod-acl-model-02              2014-10-08  Active
draft-clemm-netmod-mount-02                       2014-10-07  Active
draft-zhdankin-netmod-bgp-cfg-01                  2014-10-02  Active
draft-wang-i2rs-ospf-dm-00                        2014-09-26  Active
draft-bhuvan-bmwg-of-controller-benchmarking-01   2014-09-25  Active
draft-zhang-mpls-tp-yang-oam-00                   2014-09-25  Active
draft-bierman-netmod-yang-conformance-04          2014-09-24  Active
draft-ietf-netmod-snmp-cfg-08                     2014-09-18  In IESG
processing - ID Tracker state <RFC Ed Queue>
draft-frank-netconf-conformance-00                2014-09-16  Active
draft-haas-i2rs-netmod-netconf-requirements-00    2014-09-12  Active
draft-lhotka-netmod-yang-metadata-00              2014-09-11  Active
draft-schoenw-lmap-yang-01                        2014-09-02  Active
draft-zhuang-l2vpn-yang-cfg-00                    2014-08-24  Active
draft-zhuang-l2vpn-evpn-yang-cfg-00               2014-08-16  Active
draft-chen-mpls-ldp-yang-cfg-00                   2014-08-15  Active
draft-chen-mpls-te-yang-cfg-00                    2014-08-15  Active
draft-zhuang-l3vpn-yang-cfg-00                    2014-08-15  Active
draft-scharf-alto-yang-00                         2014-07-04  Active
draft-yang-netmod-location-00                     2014-07-04  Active
draft-fang-l3vpn-virtual-pe-05                    2014-07-04  Active
draft-mekking-dnsop-kasp-00                       2014-07-04  Active
draft-xjz-opsawg-nfvmodel-00                      2014-07-04  Active
draft-liu-netmod-yang-abstract-topo-00            2014-07-03  Active
draft-ietf-netconf-yang-patch-01                  2014-07-03  Active
draft-zheng-netmod-integrate-operations-00        2014-07-02  Active
draft-liu-netconf-multi-instances-00              2014-07-02  Active
draft-litkowski-isis-yang-isis-cfg-01             2014-06-27  Active
draft-litkowski-netmod-isis-cfg-00                2014-06-17  Active
draft-lonvick-private-tax-08                      2014-06-09  Active
draft-tp-i2rs-yang-00                             2014-05-08  Active

That could be a lot of updates...
I believe we should focus on the YANG models that don't have an existing WG=
.


I would prefer to spend all the meeting time
trying to discuss open issues in chartered items.  I don't see why
the NETMOD WG needs to spend time on status reports for
any unchartered work.

I don't agree that NETMOD WG should be the home of SYSLOG
or any other protocol specific data models. IMO all those type of drafts
should try to find a home in a protocol WG with the right experts.



Andy




Reminder: A good avenue for any YANG models is
http://www.ietf.org/meeting/91/tutorials/yang-s=
ession.html

Regards, Benoit




On Tue Nov 04 2014 at 8:40:55 AM Benoit Claise <bclaise@cisco.com> wrot=
e:

Mahesh,

Not sure what exactly you want to present but let me draw your attention
that the routing-related modules should be taken care of in their respectiv=
e
WG. See
http://www.ietf.org/mail-archive=
/web/rtg-yang-coord/current/msg00094.html

Regards, Benoit

Tom,

I am giving an update on the BFD YANG model in the BFD WG. I can give a
quick update (~1-2min) in NETMOD if such an update is desired.

Mahesh Jethanandani
mjethanandani@gmail.com

On Oct 23, 2014, at 1:43 PM, "Thomas D. Nadeau" <tnadeau@lucid=
vision.com>
wrote:


   We have plenty of runway in the agenda right now so I will put it down
as two items. We reserved two slots because I feel its important to
encourage discussion during the face2face meetings so insofar as I can, I
want to give you enough runway to discuss this in detail.

   --Tom


On Oct 23, 2014:12:13 PM, at 12:13 PM, Ladislav Lhotka <lhotka@nic.cz>
wrote:


Hi,


apart from the two WG items draft-ietf-netmod-routing-cfg-16 (to be
submitted) and draft-ietf-netmod-yang-json-01, I=92d like to discuss the dr=
aft
and draft-lhotka-netmod-yang-metadata-00. I think 5 minutes would be enough
for the latter, I could even do it together with yang-json.


Thanks, Lada


On 23 Oct 2014, at 18:02, Andy Bierman <andy@yumaworks.com> wrote:




On Tue, Oct 21, 2014 at 2:34 PM, Thomas D. Nadeau
=
<tnadeau@lucidvision.com> wrote:


   Not yet. Please propose topics.



I would like 15 min. to discuss YANG conformance issues, specified in this
draft:

http://www.ietf.org/id/draft-bierman-n=
etmod-yang-conformance-04.txt


These issues may get resolved in the NETCONF YANG 1.1 virtual interim

meeting next week. If not, this topic should be discussed at the IETF
meeting.



   =97Tom


Andy




On Oct 21, 2014:5:32 PM, at 5:32 PM, Sterne, Jason (Jason)
<jason.sterne@alcatel-lucent.com> wrote:


Hi all,


Is there a preliminary agenda for the two NETMOD sessions at IETF91 ?


Some thought about topics being split between the 1st (longer) and 2nd
(shorter) sessions ?


Thanks,

Jason


_______________________________________________

netmod mailing list

netmo=
d@ietf.org

https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/netmod



_______________________________________________

netmod mailing list

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d@ietf.org

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d@ietf.org

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--

Ladislav Lhotka, CZ.NIC Labs

PGP Key ID: E74E8C0C







_______________________________________________
netmod mailing list
netmo=
d@ietf.org
https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/netmod



_______________________________________________
netmod mailing list
netmo=
d@ietf.org
https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/netmod



_______________________________________________
netmod mailing list
netmo=
d@ietf.org
https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/netmod


_______________________________________________
netmod mailing list
netmo=
d@ietf.org
https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/netmod

--=20
Balazs Lengyel                       Ericsson Hungary Ltd.
Senior Specialist
ECN: 831 7320                        Tel: +36-1-437-7320
Mobile: +36-70-330-7909              email: Balazs.Lengyel@erics=
son.com

_______________________________________________
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d@ietf.org
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--=20
Balazs Lengyel                       Ericsson Hungary Ltd.
Senior Specialist
ECN: 831 7320                        Tel: +36-1-437-7320
Mobile: +36-70-330-7909              email: Balazs.Lengyel@erics=
son.com=20

--_000_B1659FC573ED4E11803EA61BEEBA6CE5junipernet_-- From nobody Wed Nov 5 11:34:07 2014 Return-Path: X-Original-To: netmod@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: netmod@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1CA8B1A6F3F for ; Wed, 5 Nov 2014 11:34:06 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -15.095 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-15.095 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_HI=-5, RP_MATCHES_RCVD=-0.594, SPF_PASS=-0.001, USER_IN_DEF_DKIM_WL=-7.5] autolearn=ham Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 7ZbZAhVyQ75C for ; Wed, 5 Nov 2014 11:34:03 -0800 (PST) Received: from rcdn-iport-7.cisco.com (rcdn-iport-7.cisco.com [173.37.86.78]) (using TLSv1 with cipher RC4-SHA (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 10A1B1A00EB for ; Wed, 5 Nov 2014 11:34:03 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/simple; d=cisco.com; i=@cisco.com; l=1720; q=dns/txt; s=iport; t=1415216043; x=1416425643; h=from:to:subject:date:message-id:references:in-reply-to: content-transfer-encoding:mime-version; bh=Dq1mltHAH0ur7qwgADzIa00et5q7fRVLoa7S1c+BKtU=; b=ivTkZ9W7rC3GP/woJ1OlVSKhX0TYk6c+INebEwipgBIAseOVbAvvJakw 9TbREayg1hN5fdorWTMPFa5VdkVMsIl0rKlLwCRjZvu9RJfR1vD58tyyA yM4DmW5MomgmAReV2Mk7ewLbLUCDMCxV1U/XCcl9Sf47+3INfFfHEEfRl 4=; X-IronPort-Anti-Spam-Filtered: true X-IronPort-Anti-Spam-Result: Ah0FAEp6WlStJA2I/2dsb2JhbABZA4MOVFkEzRAKhnlUAoEdFgEBAQEBfYQCAQEBBAEBATc0FwICAgEIDgIBBAEBCwsJCQcbDAsUCQgCBAESCAGIOA3MKwEBAQEBAQEBAQEBAQEBAQEBAQEBARcEkFwhFwYEB4McgR4FkACCIY0gg0yRWIN4bIEGBzuBAwEBAQ X-IronPort-AV: E=Sophos;i="5.07,321,1413244800"; d="scan'208";a="369560366" Received: from alln-core-3.cisco.com ([173.36.13.136]) by rcdn-iport-7.cisco.com with ESMTP; 05 Nov 2014 19:34:02 +0000 Received: from xhc-rcd-x13.cisco.com (xhc-rcd-x13.cisco.com [173.37.183.87]) by alln-core-3.cisco.com (8.14.5/8.14.5) with ESMTP id sA5JY29o029269 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=AES128-SHA bits=128 verify=FAIL); Wed, 5 Nov 2014 19:34:02 GMT Received: from xmb-rcd-x05.cisco.com ([169.254.15.74]) by xhc-rcd-x13.cisco.com ([173.37.183.87]) with mapi id 14.03.0195.001; Wed, 5 Nov 2014 13:34:02 -0600 From: "Alexander Clemm (alex)" To: Juergen Schoenwaelder , "netmod@ietf.org" Thread-Topic: [netmod] ietf 91 netmod agenda (revised) Thread-Index: AQHP+QW7geQllsljd0Ch1L1b1CVIqJxSatLg Date: Wed, 5 Nov 2014 19:34:02 +0000 Message-ID: References: <20141105143508.GA24535@elstar.local> In-Reply-To: <20141105143508.GA24535@elstar.local> Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-originating-ip: [10.154.204.176] Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable MIME-Version: 1.0 Archived-At: http://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/netmod/Nk7RV2clvCzfiyGUFFnUsw1aI4o Subject: Re: [netmod] ietf 91 netmod agenda (revised) X-BeenThere: netmod@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: NETMOD WG list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 05 Nov 2014 19:34:06 -0000 Just one comment, peer mount includes also datastore push, which as a topic= can also stand on its own / independent of peer mount, due to its ramifica= tions e.g. for applications that relate to service assurance (that may othe= rwise feel compelled to revert to periodic polling, or not see a reason to = use YANG/Netconf). Could we call that out as a separate item, perhaps on F= riday (where we also have more room for AOB, and one less thing to cram int= o an already crowded agenda on Thursday)? =20 Thanks --- Alex -----Original Message----- From: netmod [mailto:netmod-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of Juergen Schoenwa= elder Sent: Wednesday, November 05, 2014 6:35 AM To: netmod@ietf.org Subject: [netmod] ietf 91 netmod agenda (revised) Hi, I have uploaded a new agenda. http://www.ietf.org/proceedings/91/agenda/agenda-91-netmod Note that the agenda may not be 100% correct or complete but hopefully we a= re converging to something stable. We try to take into account that certain= contributors are not available on Friday. Please send requests for changes= to the list or to both co-chairs since this will make synchronization easi= er. While Tom will run both meetings, we (the chairs) generally split responsibility between us - infrastructure work pri= marily goes to me, data modeling work primarily goes to Tom. /js --=20 Juergen Schoenwaelder Jacobs University Bremen gGmbH Phone: +49 421 200 3587 Campus Ring 1, 28759 Bremen, Germany Fax: +49 421 200 3103 _______________________________________________ netmod mailing list netmod@ietf.org https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/netmod From nobody Wed Nov 5 12:18:27 2014 Return-Path: X-Original-To: netmod@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: netmod@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id F31601A700E for ; Wed, 5 Nov 2014 12:18:24 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.902 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.902 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, SPF_HELO_PASS=-0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id wrg2lLkbHNtQ for ; Wed, 5 Nov 2014 12:18:22 -0800 (PST) Received: from na01-by2-obe.outbound.protection.outlook.com (mail-by2on0140.outbound.protection.outlook.com [207.46.100.140]) (using TLSv1 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id DC8221ACCDC for ; Wed, 5 Nov 2014 12:12:55 -0800 (PST) Received: from CO1PR05MB458.namprd05.prod.outlook.com (10.141.72.140) by CO1PR05MB457.namprd05.prod.outlook.com (10.141.72.141) with Microsoft SMTP Server (TLS) id 15.1.11.14; Wed, 5 Nov 2014 20:12:53 +0000 Received: from CO1PR05MB458.namprd05.prod.outlook.com ([169.254.10.166]) by CO1PR05MB458.namprd05.prod.outlook.com ([169.254.10.166]) with mapi id 15.01.0011.000; Wed, 5 Nov 2014 20:12:54 +0000 From: Kent Watsen To: "Alexander Clemm (alex)" , Juergen Schoenwaelder , "netmod@ietf.org" Thread-Topic: [netmod] ietf 91 netmod agenda (revised) Thread-Index: AQHP+QW7geQllsljd0Ch1L1b1CVIqJxSatLg//+5FAA= Date: Wed, 5 Nov 2014 20:12:53 +0000 Message-ID: References: <20141105143508.GA24535@elstar.local> In-Reply-To: Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: user-agent: Microsoft-MacOutlook/14.4.4.140807 x-ms-exchange-transport-fromentityheader: Hosted x-originating-ip: [66.129.239.10] x-microsoft-antispam: BCL:0;PCL:0;RULEID:;SRVR:CO1PR05MB457; x-exchange-antispam-report-test: UriScan:; x-forefront-prvs: 0386B406AA x-forefront-antispam-report: SFV:NSPM; SFS:(10019020)(6009001)(199003)(189002)(51704005)(13464003)(24454002)(164054003)(479174003)(377454003)(19580395003)(2656002)(77096003)(36756003)(40100003)(122556002)(4396001)(19580405001)(77156002)(62966003)(64706001)(31966008)(99396003)(15975445006)(86362001)(120916001)(15202345003)(106116001)(83506001)(95666004)(99286002)(106356001)(105586002)(66066001)(50986999)(54356999)(76176999)(46102003)(101416001)(107886001)(92566001)(20776003)(21056001)(107046002)(92726001)(87936001)(97736003)(2501002); DIR:OUT; SFP:1102; SCL:1; SRVR:CO1PR05MB457; H:CO1PR05MB458.namprd05.prod.outlook.com; FPR:; MLV:sfv; PTR:InfoNoRecords; A:1; MX:1; LANG:en; Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-ID: Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable MIME-Version: 1.0 X-OriginatorOrg: juniper.net Archived-At: http://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/netmod/47gdKPVPevgi2RjUPqYOuvr-MCc Subject: Re: [netmod] ietf 91 netmod agenda (revised) X-BeenThere: netmod@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: NETMOD WG list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 05 Nov 2014 20:18:25 -0000 I'm generally supportive of this aspect of the peer-mount drafts, as I'm aware of a swelling desire to improve NETCONF Notifications. That said, I suggest moving this discussion to the NETCONF WG. Thanks, Kent On 11/5/14, 2:34 PM, "Alexander Clemm (alex)" wrote: >Just one comment, peer mount includes also datastore push, which as a >topic can also stand on its own / independent of peer mount, due to its >ramifications e.g. for applications that relate to service assurance >(that may otherwise feel compelled to revert to periodic polling, or not >see a reason to use YANG/Netconf). Could we call that out as a separate >item, perhaps on Friday (where we also have more room for AOB, and one >less thing to cram into an already crowded agenda on Thursday)? >Thanks >--- Alex > >-----Original Message----- >From: netmod [mailto:netmod-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of Juergen >Schoenwaelder >Sent: Wednesday, November 05, 2014 6:35 AM >To: netmod@ietf.org >Subject: [netmod] ietf 91 netmod agenda (revised) > >Hi, > >I have uploaded a new agenda. > >http://www.ietf.org/proceedings/91/agenda/agenda-91-netmod > >Note that the agenda may not be 100% correct or complete but hopefully we >are converging to something stable. We try to take into account that >certain contributors are not available on Friday. Please send requests >for changes to the list or to both co-chairs since this will make >synchronization easier. While Tom will run both meetings, we (the >chairs) generally split responsibility between us - infrastructure work >primarily goes to me, data modeling work primarily goes to Tom. > >/js > >--=20 >Juergen Schoenwaelder Jacobs University Bremen gGmbH >Phone: +49 421 200 3587 Campus Ring 1, 28759 Bremen, Germany >Fax: +49 421 200 3103 > >_______________________________________________ >netmod mailing list >netmod@ietf.org >https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/netmod > >_______________________________________________ >netmod mailing list >netmod@ietf.org >https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/netmod From nobody Wed Nov 5 12:41:07 2014 Return-Path: X-Original-To: netmod@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: netmod@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 13FCD1ACD38 for ; Wed, 5 Nov 2014 12:41:05 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.245 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.245 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, HELO_EQ_CZ=0.445, HOST_EQ_CZ=0.904, RP_MATCHES_RCVD=-0.594] autolearn=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id MsKX7Wwq3Zi9 for ; Wed, 5 Nov 2014 12:41:03 -0800 (PST) Received: from mail.nic.cz (mail.nic.cz [IPv6:2001:1488:800:400::400]) (using TLSv1 with cipher ADH-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 42B1F1ACD3F for ; Wed, 5 Nov 2014 12:41:02 -0800 (PST) Received: from [172.29.2.201] (unknown [77.48.225.7]) by mail.nic.cz (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 683AE13FD8D; Wed, 5 Nov 2014 21:40:59 +0100 (CET) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=simple/simple; d=nic.cz; s=default; t=1415220059; bh=qvuGofpUhc2Xqu4ks3elJamAXY8uQluvo4EfKdzdoPo=; h=Content-Type:Mime-Version:Subject:From:In-Reply-To:Date:Cc: Content-Transfer-Encoding:Message-Id:References:To; b=n7Idz5XZ8vwKpSTmrLKSQx8uim13X+wbToxG1vWHLUxjIPy9X7Hs8TaW6BPYXkx+s 2RYVawSplkstboefpRUFOLhUF3Syioglwfyvx9oCgBgi1K48+3xYXy0S1xUimFMGWc H/Tan7yarpXHXM4lt059XrABnB9beTWLl8YxvJjY= Content-Type: text/plain; charset=windows-1252 Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 7.3 \(1878.6\)) From: Ladislav Lhotka In-Reply-To: Date: Wed, 5 Nov 2014 21:40:58 +0100 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Message-Id: References: <20141105140817.GA24310@elstar.local> To: Andy Bierman X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.1878.6) X-Virus-Scanned: clamav-milter 0.98.1 at mail X-Virus-Status: Clean Archived-At: http://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/netmod/pn6CEKHykAzkwuuEweKKiSV6Cs4 Cc: "netmod@ietf.org" Subject: Re: [netmod] VRFY :Y13: allow multiple inheritance for identities X-BeenThere: netmod@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: NETMOD WG list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 05 Nov 2014 20:41:05 -0000 On 05 Nov 2014, at 17:24, Andy Bierman wrote: > Hi, >=20 > IMO this new feature is very complicated and I don't really understand Identities would form a directed acyclic graph instead of a tree. It is = somewhat more complicated but not THAT complicated. > why it is really needed. Are there other examples besides the one > shown in solution Y13-01? Any identity with multiple orthogonal facets. I think the question is = whether we need to restrict identity relations to simple tree-like = hierarchies. >=20 > A YANG compiler needs to check every possible path for loops. Effective algorithms are available. Checking circular references in when = expressions is much worse. > Each node in the "identity tree" that has multiple bases effectively > created multiple paths back to the root. All paths have to be > checked. Finding all identities that have the same set of tags > may not be easy (for tools or the operator to understand). >=20 > Can you identify some existing YANG modules where the designers > wanted to use multiple bases for an identityref? In the routing module I would have used address family (IPv4/IPv6) as = one base and =93cast=94 (unicast/multicast) as another. Lada >=20 >=20 > Andy >=20 >=20 > On Wed, Nov 5, 2014 at 6:08 AM, Juergen Schoenwaelder > wrote: >> The 2014-10-15 virtual interim meeting proposal is to adopt Y13-01. >> Please speak up by Wednesday 2014-11-12 if you disagree with this >> proposal. >>=20 >> For more details, see the issues list and the virtual interim meeting >> minutes available here: >>=20 >> http://svn.tools.ietf.org/svn/wg/netmod/yang-1.1/ >>=20 >> /js >>=20 >> -- >> Juergen Schoenwaelder Jacobs University Bremen gGmbH >> Phone: +49 421 200 3587 Campus Ring 1, 28759 Bremen, Germany >> Fax: +49 421 200 3103 >>=20 >> _______________________________________________ >> netmod mailing list >> netmod@ietf.org >> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/netmod >=20 > _______________________________________________ > netmod mailing list > netmod@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/netmod -- Ladislav Lhotka, CZ.NIC Labs PGP Key ID: E74E8C0C From nobody Wed Nov 5 12:54:37 2014 Return-Path: X-Original-To: netmod@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: netmod@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id DB4411ACD5D for ; Wed, 5 Nov 2014 12:54:35 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.495 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.495 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, RP_MATCHES_RCVD=-0.594, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 9ETZ4NIHXDxw for ; Wed, 5 Nov 2014 12:54:33 -0800 (PST) Received: from mail.tail-f.com (mail.tail-f.com [83.241.162.140]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 648D01ACD66 for ; Wed, 5 Nov 2014 12:54:33 -0800 (PST) Received: from localhost (unknown [193.13.112.215]) by mail.tail-f.com (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id DF21B1280D9D; Wed, 5 Nov 2014 21:54:31 +0100 (CET) Date: Wed, 05 Nov 2014 21:54:31 +0100 (CET) Message-Id: <20141105.215431.161636588.mbj@tail-f.com> To: lhotka@nic.cz From: Martin Bjorklund In-Reply-To: References: <20141105140817.GA24310@elstar.local> X-Mailer: Mew version 6.5 on Emacs 24.3 / Mule 6.0 (HANACHIRUSATO) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: Text/Plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 Archived-At: http://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/netmod/xnNDH3twaIiwZyQ4IuO1_nRbd0g Cc: netmod@ietf.org Subject: Re: [netmod] VRFY :Y13: allow multiple inheritance for identities X-BeenThere: netmod@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: NETMOD WG list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 05 Nov 2014 20:54:36 -0000 TGFkaXNsYXYgTGhvdGthIDxsaG90a2FAbmljLmN6PiB3cm90ZToNCj4gDQo+IE9uIDA1IE5vdiAy MDE0LCBhdCAxNzoyNCwgQW5keSBCaWVybWFuIDxhbmR5QHl1bWF3b3Jrcy5jb20+IHdyb3RlOg0K PiANCj4gPiBIaSwNCj4gPiANCj4gPiBJTU8gdGhpcyBuZXcgZmVhdHVyZSBpcyB2ZXJ5IGNvbXBs aWNhdGVkIGFuZCBJIGRvbid0IHJlYWxseSB1bmRlcnN0YW5kDQo+IA0KPiBJZGVudGl0aWVzIHdv dWxkIGZvcm0gYSBkaXJlY3RlZCBhY3ljbGljIGdyYXBoIGluc3RlYWQgb2YgYSB0cmVlLiBJdCBp cw0KPiBzb21ld2hhdCBtb3JlIGNvbXBsaWNhdGVkIGJ1dCBub3QgVEhBVCBjb21wbGljYXRlZC4N Cg0KKzENCg0KPiA+IHdoeSBpdCBpcyByZWFsbHkgbmVlZGVkLiBBcmUgdGhlcmUgb3RoZXIgZXhh bXBsZXMgYmVzaWRlcyB0aGUgb25lDQo+ID4gc2hvd24gaW4gc29sdXRpb24gWTEzLTAxPw0KPiAN Cj4gQW55IGlkZW50aXR5IHdpdGggbXVsdGlwbGUgb3J0aG9nb25hbCBmYWNldHMuIEkgdGhpbmsg dGhlIHF1ZXN0aW9uIGlzIHdoZXRoZXINCj4gd2UgbmVlZCB0byByZXN0cmljdCBpZGVudGl0eSBy ZWxhdGlvbnMgdG8gc2ltcGxlIHRyZWUtbGlrZSBoaWVyYXJjaGllcy4NCj4gDQo+ID4gDQo+ID4g QSBZQU5HIGNvbXBpbGVyIG5lZWRzIHRvIGNoZWNrIGV2ZXJ5IHBvc3NpYmxlIHBhdGggZm9yIGxv b3BzLg0KPiANCj4gRWZmZWN0aXZlIGFsZ29yaXRobXMgYXJlIGF2YWlsYWJsZS4gQ2hlY2tpbmcg Y2lyY3VsYXIgcmVmZXJlbmNlcyBpbiB3aGVuDQo+IGV4cHJlc3Npb25zIGlzIG11Y2ggd29yc2Uu DQoNCkZXSVcsIEkgaW1wbGVtZW50ZWQgdGhpcyBpbiBweWFuZywgYW5kIHRoZSB3YXkgdGhlIGNv ZGUgd2FzIHdyaXR0ZW4gSQ0KaGFkIHRvIGNoYW5nZSBhIHNpbmdsZSBjaGFyYWN0ZXIgaW4gdGhl IGdyYW1tYXIgdG8gaGFuZGxlIHRoaXMgY2FzZS4NCk9rLCB0aGlzIHdhcyBleHRyZW1lLCBidXQg SSByZWFsbHkgZG9uJ3QgdGhpbmsgdGhhdCBpdCBpcyBhIGJpZyBkZWFsLg0KPiANCj4gPiBFYWNo IG5vZGUgaW4gdGhlICJpZGVudGl0eSB0cmVlIiB0aGF0IGhhcyBtdWx0aXBsZSBiYXNlcyBlZmZl Y3RpdmVseQ0KPiA+IGNyZWF0ZWQgbXVsdGlwbGUgcGF0aHMgYmFjayB0byB0aGUgcm9vdC4gQWxs IHBhdGhzIGhhdmUgdG8gYmUNCj4gPiBjaGVja2VkLiAgRmluZGluZyBhbGwgaWRlbnRpdGllcyB0 aGF0IGhhdmUgdGhlIHNhbWUgc2V0IG9mIHRhZ3MNCj4gPiBtYXkgbm90IGJlIGVhc3kgKGZvciB0 b29scyBvciB0aGUgb3BlcmF0b3IgdG8gdW5kZXJzdGFuZCkuDQo+ID4gDQo+ID4gQ2FuIHlvdSBp ZGVudGlmeSBzb21lIGV4aXN0aW5nIFlBTkcgbW9kdWxlcyB3aGVyZSB0aGUgZGVzaWduZXJzDQo+ ID4gd2FudGVkIHRvIHVzZSBtdWx0aXBsZSBiYXNlcyBmb3IgYW4gaWRlbnRpdHlyZWY/DQo+IA0K PiBJbiB0aGUgcm91dGluZyBtb2R1bGUgSSB3b3VsZCBoYXZlIHVzZWQgYWRkcmVzcyBmYW1pbHkg KElQdjQvSVB2NikgYXMgb25lIGJhc2UNCj4gYW5kIOKAnGNhc3TigJ0gKHVuaWNhc3QvbXVsdGlj YXN0KSBhcyBhbm90aGVyLg0KDQpUaGUgb3RoZXIgZXhhbXBsZSB0aGF0IGhhcyBjb21lIHVwIGlz IGluIGludGVyZmFjZSB0eXBlcy4gIEkgYmVsaWV2ZQ0KTGFkYSBoYWQgYW4gZXhhbXBsZSB3aXRo ICdyYWRpby1wcm9wZXJ0aWVzJyBhbmQNCidldGhlcm5ldC1wcm9wZXJ0aWVzJy4gIEEgY2VydGFp biBpbnRlcmZhY2UgY2FuIGluaGVyaXQgZnJvbSBvbmUgb3INCmJvdGguDQoNCg0KL21hcnRpbg0K From nobody Wed Nov 5 13:56:27 2014 Return-Path: X-Original-To: netmod@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: netmod@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 623391ACE47 for ; 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Wed, 5 Nov 2014 15:56:16 -0600 From: "Eric Voit (evoit)" To: Kent Watsen , "Alexander Clemm (alex)" , Juergen Schoenwaelder , "netmod@ietf.org" Thread-Topic: [netmod] ietf 91 netmod agenda (revised) Thread-Index: AQHP+QW7+7nrhUQVs06LQbdVJCva6JxS0XEAgAAK24D//7YVAA== Date: Wed, 5 Nov 2014 21:56:15 +0000 Message-ID: References: <20141105143508.GA24535@elstar.local> In-Reply-To: Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-originating-ip: [10.116.134.131] Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable MIME-Version: 1.0 Archived-At: http://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/netmod/__2-uzORYDoAa3WU059huFqN5BI Subject: Re: [netmod] ietf 91 netmod agenda (revised) X-BeenThere: netmod@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: NETMOD WG list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 05 Nov 2014 21:56:25 -0000 > From: Kent Watsen, November 05, 2014 3:13 PM >=20 >=20 > I'm generally supportive of this aspect of the peer-mount drafts, as I'm > aware of a swelling desire to improve NETCONF Notifications. That said, > I suggest moving this discussion to the NETCONF WG. We have been wondering about the right home for the push draft. Netmod mig= ht not be it because a generalized Pub/Sub mechanism might be needed beyond= YANG encoding. However we are hoping that the Pub/Sub mechanism could wor= k with many transports (including multicast transports). Is NETCONF WG abl= e to support a Pub/Sub mechanism maximally decoupled from NETCONF transport= ? Eric =20 > Thanks, > Kent >=20 >=20 > On 11/5/14, 2:34 PM, "Alexander Clemm (alex)" wrote: >=20 > >Just one comment, peer mount includes also datastore push, which as a > >topic can also stand on its own / independent of peer mount, due to its > >ramifications e.g. for applications that relate to service assurance > >(that may otherwise feel compelled to revert to periodic polling, or > >not see a reason to use YANG/Netconf). Could we call that out as a > >separate item, perhaps on Friday (where we also have more room for AOB, > >and one less thing to cram into an already crowded agenda on Thursday)? > >Thanks > >--- Alex > > > >-----Original Message----- > >From: netmod [mailto:netmod-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of Juergen > >Schoenwaelder > >Sent: Wednesday, November 05, 2014 6:35 AM > >To: netmod@ietf.org > >Subject: [netmod] ietf 91 netmod agenda (revised) > > > >Hi, > > > >I have uploaded a new agenda. > > > >http://www.ietf.org/proceedings/91/agenda/agenda-91-netmod > > > >Note that the agenda may not be 100% correct or complete but hopefully > >we are converging to something stable. We try to take into account that > >certain contributors are not available on Friday. Please send requests > >for changes to the list or to both co-chairs since this will make > >synchronization easier. While Tom will run both meetings, we (the > >chairs) generally split responsibility between us - infrastructure work > >primarily goes to me, data modeling work primarily goes to Tom. > > > >/js > > > >-- > >Juergen Schoenwaelder Jacobs University Bremen gGmbH > >Phone: +49 421 200 3587 Campus Ring 1, 28759 Bremen, Germany > >Fax: +49 421 200 3103 > > > >_______________________________________________ > >netmod mailing list > >netmod@ietf.org > >https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/netmod > > > >_______________________________________________ > >netmod mailing list > >netmod@ietf.org > >https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/netmod >=20 > _______________________________________________ > netmod mailing list > netmod@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/netmod From nobody Wed Nov 5 14:05:33 2014 Return-Path: X-Original-To: netmod@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: netmod@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 607D51ACE5A for ; Wed, 5 Nov 2014 14:05:31 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.979 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.979 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, FM_FORGED_GMAIL=0.622, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW=-0.7, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 3f4CElB5O4I3 for ; Wed, 5 Nov 2014 14:05:29 -0800 (PST) Received: from mail-qg0-f42.google.com (mail-qg0-f42.google.com [209.85.192.42]) (using TLSv1 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-RC4-SHA (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id E3AEC1ACE68 for ; Wed, 5 Nov 2014 14:05:28 -0800 (PST) Received: by mail-qg0-f42.google.com with SMTP id i50so83051qgf.1 for ; Wed, 05 Nov 2014 14:05:28 -0800 (PST) X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20130820; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:in-reply-to:references:date :message-id:subject:from:to:cc:content-type :content-transfer-encoding; bh=iamwOh0QbEkypka4+YfCg0unJSzJF4p1LPjEkqEeQFg=; b=UU3VKtw+OFqJWcAJjmaRG9UtRQ3GcpxiIR1Jpbr+ENfECIgd9sTHxPVaLb4ilOjw22 yxj79mY7Gb++KPkGMS9j07Caizqx8RGathpjyfGm5GEJmVSZDU3W/1WjRa5C9jVux1OQ nHYL4umYAWkdk0T73kTjGn+PvzCTa1HuYoNbgflpRN4uxlP4IRbtJLv3MMFXK4GWzY8Q sBNDNmXDcb+wV/u4BYLAxO1+/cmZ0gcQePGvSQs0bB/jPqADhOVUapntCxXtIkDSHE1B GbIag78NcrjZ55QpWGSpHgegmMqAkkthLy5BAP7Hl1gYuEMsS5+6bxMjLKN8XIfcQYnM t5Hg== X-Gm-Message-State: ALoCoQk+pW6UB4UXuPs0JQsveNykNAyAvPxzjKbuSAU0+H0HcGGmQX8y6Sb+d8XdyhYipBFx7RrQ MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Received: by 10.224.134.198 with SMTP id k6mr314027qat.88.1415225127980; Wed, 05 Nov 2014 14:05:27 -0800 (PST) Received: by 10.140.37.52 with HTTP; Wed, 5 Nov 2014 14:05:27 -0800 (PST) In-Reply-To: References: <20141105143508.GA24535@elstar.local> Date: Wed, 5 Nov 2014 14:05:27 -0800 Message-ID: From: Andy Bierman To: "Eric Voit (evoit)" Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Archived-At: http://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/netmod/W5VXhozFN-vycPKTBEt78CF4UHo Cc: "netmod@ietf.org" Subject: Re: [netmod] ietf 91 netmod agenda (revised) X-BeenThere: netmod@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: NETMOD WG list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 05 Nov 2014 22:05:31 -0000 On Wed, Nov 5, 2014 at 1:56 PM, Eric Voit (evoit) wrote: >> From: Kent Watsen, November 05, 2014 3:13 PM >> >> >> I'm generally supportive of this aspect of the peer-mount drafts, as I'm >> aware of a swelling desire to improve NETCONF Notifications. That said= , >> I suggest moving this discussion to the NETCONF WG. > > We have been wondering about the right home for the push draft. Netmod m= ight not be it because a generalized Pub/Sub mechanism might be needed beyo= nd YANG encoding. However we are hoping that the Pub/Sub mechanism could w= ork with many transports (including multicast transports). Is NETCONF WG a= ble to support a Pub/Sub mechanism maximally decoupled from NETCONF transpo= rt? > The NETMOD WG may have a wide open charter, but I am pretty sure it does not include any protocol work at all. I don't know if NETCONF is the right WG, but this is not in scope for NETMOD. > Eric Andy > >> Thanks, >> Kent >> >> >> On 11/5/14, 2:34 PM, "Alexander Clemm (alex)" wrote: >> >> >Just one comment, peer mount includes also datastore push, which as a >> >topic can also stand on its own / independent of peer mount, due to its >> >ramifications e.g. for applications that relate to service assurance >> >(that may otherwise feel compelled to revert to periodic polling, or >> >not see a reason to use YANG/Netconf). Could we call that out as a >> >separate item, perhaps on Friday (where we also have more room for AOB, >> >and one less thing to cram into an already crowded agenda on Thursday)? >> >Thanks >> >--- Alex >> > >> >-----Original Message----- >> >From: netmod [mailto:netmod-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of Juergen >> >Schoenwaelder >> >Sent: Wednesday, November 05, 2014 6:35 AM >> >To: netmod@ietf.org >> >Subject: [netmod] ietf 91 netmod agenda (revised) >> > >> >Hi, >> > >> >I have uploaded a new agenda. >> > >> >http://www.ietf.org/proceedings/91/agenda/agenda-91-netmod >> > >> >Note that the agenda may not be 100% correct or complete but hopefully >> >we are converging to something stable. We try to take into account that >> >certain contributors are not available on Friday. Please send requests >> >for changes to the list or to both co-chairs since this will make >> >synchronization easier. While Tom will run both meetings, we (the >> >chairs) generally split responsibility between us - infrastructure work >> >primarily goes to me, data modeling work primarily goes to Tom. >> > >> >/js >> > >> >-- >> >Juergen Schoenwaelder Jacobs University Bremen gGmbH >> >Phone: +49 421 200 3587 Campus Ring 1, 28759 Bremen, Germany >> >Fax: +49 421 200 3103 >> > >> >_______________________________________________ >> >netmod mailing list >> >netmod@ietf.org >> >https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/netmod >> > >> >_______________________________________________ >> >netmod mailing list >> >netmod@ietf.org >> >https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/netmod >> >> _______________________________________________ >> netmod mailing list >> netmod@ietf.org >> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/netmod > > _______________________________________________ > netmod mailing list > netmod@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/netmod From nobody Wed Nov 5 14:40:44 2014 Return-Path: X-Original-To: netmod@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: netmod@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id CC0651A00B8 for ; Wed, 5 Nov 2014 14:40:41 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.144 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.144 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, HELO_EQ_DE=0.35, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, RP_MATCHES_RCVD=-0.594] autolearn=ham Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id VhoV2Wz9a1Gr for ; Wed, 5 Nov 2014 14:40:39 -0800 (PST) Received: from atlas3.jacobs-university.de (atlas3.jacobs-university.de [212.201.44.18]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher AECDH-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 369931A008C for ; Wed, 5 Nov 2014 14:40:39 -0800 (PST) Received: from localhost (demetrius5.irc-it.jacobs-university.de [10.70.0.222]) by atlas3.jacobs-university.de (Postfix) with ESMTP id AC07D1044; Wed, 5 Nov 2014 23:40:37 +0100 (CET) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at jacobs-university.de Received: from atlas3.jacobs-university.de ([10.70.0.220]) by localhost (demetrius5.jacobs-university.de [10.70.0.222]) (amavisd-new, port 10030) with ESMTP id lXcJkQqPHj1J; Wed, 5 Nov 2014 23:40:20 +0100 (CET) Received: from hermes.jacobs-university.de (hermes.jacobs-university.de [212.201.44.23]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (Client CN "hermes.jacobs-university.de", Issuer "Jacobs University CA - G01" (verified OK)) by atlas3.jacobs-university.de (Postfix) with ESMTPS; Wed, 5 Nov 2014 23:40:37 +0100 (CET) Received: from localhost (demetrius4.jacobs-university.de [212.201.44.49]) by hermes.jacobs-university.de (Postfix) with ESMTP id CF30C20038; Wed, 5 Nov 2014 23:40:36 +0100 (CET) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at jacobs-university.de Received: from hermes.jacobs-university.de ([212.201.44.23]) by localhost (demetrius4.jacobs-university.de [212.201.44.32]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id UoAp9-UaXj3i; Wed, 5 Nov 2014 23:40:36 +0100 (CET) Received: from elstar.local (elstar.jacobs.jacobs-university.de [10.50.231.133]) by hermes.jacobs-university.de (Postfix) with ESMTP id DFC6D2003A; Wed, 5 Nov 2014 23:40:35 +0100 (CET) Received: by elstar.local (Postfix, from userid 501) id E2BCF2F46292; Wed, 5 Nov 2014 23:40:34 +0100 (CET) Date: Wed, 5 Nov 2014 23:40:33 +0100 From: Juergen Schoenwaelder To: "Eric Voit (evoit)" Message-ID: <20141105224033.GA26119@elstar.local> Mail-Followup-To: "Eric Voit (evoit)" , Kent Watsen , "Alexander Clemm (alex)" , "netmod@ietf.org" References: <20141105143508.GA24535@elstar.local> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: User-Agent: Mutt/1.4.2.3i Archived-At: http://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/netmod/Rgw2WLurZdKGlTgYgbxsSU9SB_4 Cc: "netmod@ietf.org" Subject: Re: [netmod] ietf 91 netmod agenda (revised) X-BeenThere: netmod@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list Reply-To: Juergen Schoenwaelder List-Id: NETMOD WG list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 05 Nov 2014 22:40:42 -0000 On Wed, Nov 05, 2014 at 09:56:15PM +0000, Eric Voit (evoit) wrote: > > From: Kent Watsen, November 05, 2014 3:13 PM > > > > > > I'm generally supportive of this aspect of the peer-mount drafts, as I'm > > aware of a swelling desire to improve NETCONF Notifications. That said, > > I suggest moving this discussion to the NETCONF WG. > > We have been wondering about the right home for the push draft. Netmod might not be it because a generalized Pub/Sub mechanism might be needed beyond YANG encoding. However we are hoping that the Pub/Sub mechanism could work with many transports (including multicast transports). Is NETCONF WG able to support a Pub/Sub mechanism maximally decoupled from NETCONF transport? > Looking at the charter of this WG, it seems pretty clear that NETMOD is not chartered to do protocol work. And NETMOD can't answer the question whether NETCONF can help you or any other working group. That said, I am unsure what you want to do. Are we talking about ? That document defines YANG notifications and data objects, so this is a data model. But then you write "a generalized Pub/Sub mechanism might be needed beyond YANG encoding" that is "maximally decoupled from NETCONF transport". Is there another I-D for this? I really like to understand things better. /js -- Juergen Schoenwaelder Jacobs University Bremen gGmbH Phone: +49 421 200 3587 Campus Ring 1, 28759 Bremen, Germany Fax: +49 421 200 3103 From nobody Wed Nov 5 14:55:34 2014 Return-Path: X-Original-To: netmod@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: netmod@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0DD9C1ACE64 for ; Wed, 5 Nov 2014 14:55:33 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -15.095 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-15.095 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_HI=-5, RP_MATCHES_RCVD=-0.594, SPF_PASS=-0.001, USER_IN_DEF_DKIM_WL=-7.5] autolearn=ham Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id y4xW0U3t3kMa for ; Wed, 5 Nov 2014 14:55:30 -0800 (PST) Received: from rcdn-iport-7.cisco.com (rcdn-iport-7.cisco.com [173.37.86.78]) (using TLSv1 with cipher RC4-SHA (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id A74331ACE49 for ; Wed, 5 Nov 2014 14:55:30 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/simple; d=cisco.com; i=@cisco.com; l=3104; q=dns/txt; s=iport; t=1415228130; x=1416437730; h=from:to:cc:subject:date:message-id:references: in-reply-to:content-transfer-encoding:mime-version; bh=O7g7AmRI43fb26c44PgBRTbrGUmrb5jAfq7p1gVx8M8=; b=TTQr4nTUHtIPC3k6TbXMDXQxNrK0i8WzXoLz25WJBfHyMt4Py+EeocZr jroWvYJVsKW4PaHE6IEM8McJyJz5QCzB0gomzA4DRMYx0kQdQ3JLe2mwI skE6KB0gSD8g3gNaG4LTovmWiORGb6aDsRHuI+t3VubOeKvsX1Qgr8N4z E=; X-IronPort-Anti-Spam-Filtered: true X-IronPort-Anti-Spam-Result: Ag0FAJKqWlStJA2H/2dsb2JhbABYA4MOVFkEzRiHUgKBHRYBAQEBAX2EAgEBAQQ6PwwCAgIBCA4CAQEDAQEBCgMRCQcbFxQDBggCBAENBQiIOcxUAQEBAQEBAQEBAQEBAQEBAQEBAQEBFwSQXCEQBwYLgxyBHgWSIaJGg3hsgUiBAwEBAQ X-IronPort-AV: E=Sophos;i="5.07,322,1413244800"; d="scan'208";a="369636944" Received: from alln-core-2.cisco.com ([173.36.13.135]) by rcdn-iport-7.cisco.com with ESMTP; 05 Nov 2014 22:55:29 +0000 Received: from xhc-rcd-x03.cisco.com (xhc-rcd-x03.cisco.com [173.37.183.77]) by alln-core-2.cisco.com (8.14.5/8.14.5) with ESMTP id sA5MtTd7025112 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=AES128-SHA bits=128 verify=FAIL); Wed, 5 Nov 2014 22:55:29 GMT Received: from xmb-rcd-x05.cisco.com ([169.254.15.74]) by xhc-rcd-x03.cisco.com ([173.37.183.77]) with mapi id 14.03.0195.001; Wed, 5 Nov 2014 16:55:29 -0600 From: "Alexander Clemm (alex)" To: Juergen Schoenwaelder , "Eric Voit (evoit)" Thread-Topic: [netmod] ietf 91 netmod agenda (revised) Thread-Index: AQHP+QW7geQllsljd0Ch1L1b1CVIqJxSatLg//+5FACAANVHgIAADGGA//+bmcA= Date: Wed, 5 Nov 2014 22:55:29 +0000 Message-ID: References: <20141105143508.GA24535@elstar.local> <20141105224033.GA26119@elstar.local> In-Reply-To: <20141105224033.GA26119@elstar.local> Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-originating-ip: [10.154.204.176] Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable MIME-Version: 1.0 Archived-At: http://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/netmod/tyUS7Tg-4oYvTweQbgyi-IobN-w Cc: "netmod@ietf.org" Subject: Re: [netmod] ietf 91 netmod agenda (revised) X-BeenThere: netmod@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: NETMOD WG list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 05 Nov 2014 22:55:33 -0000 Hi Juergen, Yes, at its essence, this is a data model. This is why we think Netmod is = the relevant group, and why we would like to discuss it here. =20 In addition to configuring the subscriptions, there is the issue of how you= perform the actual push. This is done by defining a notification, which w= ill be transported using a element per RFC 5277. =20 In the future, it is conceivable that alternative transport mappings (e.g. = pub/sub, someone even brought up ipfix export) may be defined. It is our i= ntention to have an architecture that will allow for that, i.e. to have the= same subscription model apply also in such a case. But really, this is or= thogonal. =20 Getting back to the original message, it would be good to break this into a= separate item, hence I would request to a time slot on Friday. This is al= so practical from a "load-balancing" perspective, as the agenda on Thursday= is a lot heavier than Friday's. In the peer-mount slot, there are potenti= ally already three other separate drafts to talk to (requirements - use cas= e - mechanism), and the push draft has applicability beyond that. =20 Thanks --- Alex -----Original Message----- From: Juergen Schoenwaelder [mailto:j.schoenwaelder@jacobs-university.de]=20 Sent: Wednesday, November 05, 2014 2:41 PM To: Eric Voit (evoit) Cc: Kent Watsen; Alexander Clemm (alex); netmod@ietf.org Subject: Re: [netmod] ietf 91 netmod agenda (revised) On Wed, Nov 05, 2014 at 09:56:15PM +0000, Eric Voit (evoit) wrote: > > From: Kent Watsen, November 05, 2014 3:13 PM > >=20 > >=20 > > I'm generally supportive of this aspect of the peer-mount drafts, as I'= m > > aware of a swelling desire to improve NETCONF Notifications. That sai= d, > > I suggest moving this discussion to the NETCONF WG. >=20 > We have been wondering about the right home for the push draft. Netmod m= ight not be it because a generalized Pub/Sub mechanism might be needed beyo= nd YANG encoding. However we are hoping that the Pub/Sub mechanism could w= ork with many transports (including multicast transports). Is NETCONF WG a= ble to support a Pub/Sub mechanism maximally decoupled from NETCONF transpo= rt? > Looking at the charter of this WG, it seems pretty clear that NETMOD is not= chartered to do protocol work. And NETMOD can't answer the question whethe= r NETCONF can help you or any other working group. That said, I am unsure what you want to do. Are we talking about ? That document defines YANG notifications = and data objects, so this is a data model. But then you write "a generalize= d Pub/Sub mechanism might be needed beyond YANG encoding" that is "maximall= y decoupled from NETCONF transport". Is there another I-D for this? I reall= y like to understand things better. /js --=20 Juergen Schoenwaelder Jacobs University Bremen gGmbH Phone: +49 421 200 3587 Campus Ring 1, 28759 Bremen, Germany Fax: +49 421 200 3103 From nobody Wed Nov 5 15:54:04 2014 Return-Path: X-Original-To: netmod@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: netmod@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id B86701A0151 for ; Wed, 5 Nov 2014 15:54:01 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -15.095 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-15.095 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_HI=-5, RP_MATCHES_RCVD=-0.594, SPF_PASS=-0.001, USER_IN_DEF_DKIM_WL=-7.5] autolearn=ham Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 6SPx-WnOMzuS for ; Wed, 5 Nov 2014 15:53:59 -0800 (PST) Received: from alln-iport-5.cisco.com (alln-iport-5.cisco.com [173.37.142.92]) (using TLSv1 with cipher RC4-SHA (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 299221A0276 for ; Wed, 5 Nov 2014 15:53:58 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/simple; d=cisco.com; i=@cisco.com; l=4238; q=dns/txt; s=iport; t=1415231639; x=1416441239; h=from:to:cc:subject:date:message-id:references: in-reply-to:content-transfer-encoding:mime-version; bh=+gZqljXnx657nr8mIRWTifIR2MC2zW4G58Rju7oEAZQ=; b=WusxvN9VK70relQgt9zIufQ93BktTsz9raDj8JALigj5b9hv/DmIEAC+ suYFaV0I8JbLiRZWeMJwfkAE93JVpmNVsPtH0Du7meVYy7St10KrtZEKC ub4MjMdqB69OZuPbHEY1bS31xrrp51SrQUtk11DJJBBMaLLtrW72ahXgb M=; X-IronPort-Anti-Spam-Filtered: true X-IronPort-Anti-Spam-Result: Ag4FAO63WlStJV2Y/2dsb2JhbABBFwMWgnhUWQTNHIdOAoEbFgEBAQEBfYQCAQEBAgEBOj8FBwICAgEIEAEBAwEBAQoCAREJBxsXFAMGCAIEAQ0FCAESiB0JDTjMBwEBAQEBAQEBAQEBAQEBAQEBAQEBARcEkFwhEAIFBguDHIEeBZIhokaDeGwBARKBNIEDAQEB X-IronPort-AV: E=Sophos;i="5.07,322,1413244800"; d="scan'208";a="93818465" Received: from rcdn-core-1.cisco.com ([173.37.93.152]) by alln-iport-5.cisco.com with ESMTP; 05 Nov 2014 23:53:59 +0000 Received: from xhc-rcd-x14.cisco.com (xhc-rcd-x14.cisco.com [173.37.183.88]) by rcdn-core-1.cisco.com (8.14.5/8.14.5) with ESMTP id sA5NrvMO019033 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=AES128-SHA bits=128 verify=FAIL); Wed, 5 Nov 2014 23:53:57 GMT Received: from xmb-aln-x11.cisco.com ([169.254.6.106]) by xhc-rcd-x14.cisco.com ([173.37.183.88]) with mapi id 14.03.0195.001; Wed, 5 Nov 2014 17:53:57 -0600 From: "Eric Voit (evoit)" To: "Alexander Clemm (alex)" , Juergen Schoenwaelder Thread-Topic: [netmod] ietf 91 netmod agenda (revised) Thread-Index: AQHP+QW7+7nrhUQVs06LQbdVJCva6JxS0XEAgAAK24D//7YVAIAAcy2AgAAELID//5xzMA== Date: Wed, 5 Nov 2014 23:53:56 +0000 Message-ID: References: <20141105143508.GA24535@elstar.local> <20141105224033.GA26119@elstar.local> In-Reply-To: Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-originating-ip: [10.116.134.131] Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable MIME-Version: 1.0 Archived-At: http://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/netmod/wRrPrXQT80RwszGEvlYaUioCnCs Cc: "netmod@ietf.org" Subject: Re: [netmod] ietf 91 netmod agenda (revised) X-BeenThere: netmod@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: NETMOD WG list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 05 Nov 2014 23:54:01 -0000 > From: Alexander Clemm, November 05, 2014 5:55 PM >=20 > Hi Juergen, >=20 > Yes, at its essence, this is a data model. This is why we think Netmod i= s the > relevant group, and why we would like to discuss it here. >=20 > In addition to configuring the subscriptions, there is the issue of how y= ou > perform the actual push. This is done by defining a notification, which = will be > transported using a element per RFC 5277. >=20 > In the future, it is conceivable that alternative transport mappings (e.g= . pub/sub, > someone even brought up ipfix export) may be defined. It is our intentio= n to > have an architecture that will allow for that, i.e. to have the same subs= cription > model apply also in such a case. But really, this is orthogonal. Yes, both Juergen and Andy pointed out that such protocol work is not in Ne= tmod charter. And I completely agree this is something Netmod should *not*= do. =20 The point I communicated (poorly) is that additional drafts may need a home= if the IETF desires Pub/Sub mechanisms beyond NETCONF. Can any of this tr= ansport specific protocol work be generalized? I don't know. I do know of= multiple implementations though. Just for grins, below are some academic = data-points showing people care... New Generation SDN-Aware Pub/Sub Environment http://www.thinkmind.org/download.php?articleid=3Dicn_2014_9_20_30097 (investigates Pub/sub with Multicast, OpenFlow, ALTO) Efficient Publish-Subscribe Architecture for the Smart Grid using OpenFlow = and MPLS http://www.cse.iitb.ac.in/~cs620/final_project_ppts/rohan_7.pdf=20 Publish Subscribe Internet Routing Paradigm (PSIRP) http://www.psirp.org/overview/solution.html=20 Eric > Getting back to the original message, it would be good to break this into= a > separate item, hence I would request to a time slot on Friday. This is a= lso > practical from a "load-balancing" perspective, as the agenda on Thursday = is a lot > heavier than Friday's. In the peer-mount slot, there are potentially alr= eady three > other separate drafts to talk to (requirements - use case - mechanism), a= nd the > push draft has applicability beyond that. >=20 > Thanks > --- Alex >=20 > -----Original Message----- > From: Juergen Schoenwaelder [mailto:j.schoenwaelder@jacobs-university.de] > Sent: Wednesday, November 05, 2014 2:41 PM > To: Eric Voit (evoit) > Cc: Kent Watsen; Alexander Clemm (alex); netmod@ietf.org > Subject: Re: [netmod] ietf 91 netmod agenda (revised) >=20 > On Wed, Nov 05, 2014 at 09:56:15PM +0000, Eric Voit (evoit) wrote: > > > From: Kent Watsen, November 05, 2014 3:13 PM > > > > > > > > > I'm generally supportive of this aspect of the peer-mount drafts, as = I'm > > > aware of a swelling desire to improve NETCONF Notifications. That s= aid, > > > I suggest moving this discussion to the NETCONF WG. > > > > We have been wondering about the right home for the push draft. Netmod > might not be it because a generalized Pub/Sub mechanism might be needed > beyond YANG encoding. However we are hoping that the Pub/Sub mechanism > could work with many transports (including multicast transports). Is NET= CONF > WG able to support a Pub/Sub mechanism maximally decoupled from NETCONF > transport? > > >=20 > Looking at the charter of this WG, it seems pretty clear that NETMOD is n= ot > chartered to do protocol work. And NETMOD can't answer the question wheth= er > NETCONF can help you or any other working group. >=20 > That said, I am unsure what you want to do. Are we talking about netmod-clemm-datastore-push-00.txt>? That document defines YANG > notifications and data objects, so this is a data model. But then you wri= te "a > generalized Pub/Sub mechanism might be needed beyond YANG encoding" that > is "maximally decoupled from NETCONF transport". Is there another I-D for= this? > I really like to understand things better. >=20 > /js >=20 > -- > Juergen Schoenwaelder Jacobs University Bremen gGmbH > Phone: +49 421 200 3587 Campus Ring 1, 28759 Bremen, Germany > Fax: +49 421 200 3103 From nobody Wed Nov 5 16:23:48 2014 Return-Path: X-Original-To: netmod@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: netmod@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 432381A1A20 for ; Wed, 5 Nov 2014 16:23:46 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.999 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.999 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id V7fg74eCMV2o for ; Wed, 5 Nov 2014 16:23:43 -0800 (PST) Received: from mail-yk0-x229.google.com (mail-yk0-x229.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:4002:c07::229]) (using TLSv1 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-RC4-SHA (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 3C7BE1A19F1 for ; Wed, 5 Nov 2014 16:23:43 -0800 (PST) Received: by mail-yk0-f169.google.com with SMTP id 131so847532ykp.0 for ; Wed, 05 Nov 2014 16:23:42 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20120113; h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:date:message-id:subject:from:to :cc:content-type; bh=ZaqyR48dECs/6x5Qifa1Nqcp/HWWhPbZwZNKgSMmmsA=; b=GpJMnPOObHRdz1b9krlibc+U7yaAY3eB5SO2RrCOchK4HzUBKiXi9F0pVIRh7pBMaS EQqpFsEKp4M0VY3X0ejOdoKTe13R+EgZc0GQxxAqDoIArDCqWxk3madUKlS1GNCZbz2Q Dop0n6cKxAiTddeVU2gGSc7Les43FrGqOMWZ70kIkoX+tLUuJw3w0TM/apnkMQWs+Y7b 5km654VUKkYnl9qZs0Bx6LrfbObRe0ylreRfRNYCdZwl1raS4XeL4opghdWLYRJrO9lY yOalgaPw7BGByQ2KKBOv7BYqy+Ae2sQh1FoEHXoqZyWDWXsOBtE5XphqS9WTOWrkEcEY q7ew== MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Received: by 10.236.26.116 with SMTP id b80mr748939yha.60.1415233422439; Wed, 05 Nov 2014 16:23:42 -0800 (PST) Received: by 10.170.172.130 with HTTP; Wed, 5 Nov 2014 16:23:42 -0800 (PST) Received: by 10.170.172.130 with HTTP; Wed, 5 Nov 2014 16:23:42 -0800 (PST) In-Reply-To: References: <20141105143508.GA24535@elstar.local> <20141105224033.GA26119@elstar.local> Date: Wed, 5 Nov 2014 19:23:42 -0500 Message-ID: From: Alia Atlas To: "Eric Voit (evoit)" Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=047d7b5d99a36b3b5d050725b55c Archived-At: http://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/netmod/w3vHNyvSMsJBFKJ9CS6QDtF5zZ0 Cc: netmod@ietf.org Subject: Re: [netmod] ietf 91 netmod agenda (revised) X-BeenThere: netmod@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: NETMOD WG list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 06 Nov 2014 00:23:46 -0000 --047d7b5d99a36b3b5d050725b55c Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Eric, This type of pub/sub functionality is something that is in the I2RS architecture. Regards, Alia (no hats) On Nov 5, 2014 6:54 PM, "Eric Voit (evoit)" wrote: > > From: Alexander Clemm, November 05, 2014 5:55 PM > > > > Hi Juergen, > > > > Yes, at its essence, this is a data model. This is why we think Netmod > is the > > relevant group, and why we would like to discuss it here. > > > > In addition to configuring the subscriptions, there is the issue of how > you > > perform the actual push. This is done by defining a notification, which > will be > > transported using a element per RFC 5277. > > > > In the future, it is conceivable that alternative transport mappings > (e.g. pub/sub, > > someone even brought up ipfix export) may be defined. It is our > intention to > > have an architecture that will allow for that, i.e. to have the same > subscription > > model apply also in such a case. But really, this is orthogonal. > > Yes, both Juergen and Andy pointed out that such protocol work is not in > Netmod charter. And I completely agree this is something Netmod should > *not* do. > > The point I communicated (poorly) is that additional drafts may need a > home if the IETF desires Pub/Sub mechanisms beyond NETCONF. Can any of > this transport specific protocol work be generalized? I don't know. I do > know of multiple implementations though. Just for grins, below are some > academic data-points showing people care... > > New Generation SDN-Aware Pub/Sub Environment > http://www.thinkmind.org/download.php?articleid=icn_2014_9_20_30097 > (investigates Pub/sub with Multicast, OpenFlow, ALTO) > > Efficient Publish-Subscribe Architecture for the Smart Grid using OpenFlow > and MPLS > http://www.cse.iitb.ac.in/~cs620/final_project_ppts/rohan_7.pdf > > Publish Subscribe Internet Routing Paradigm (PSIRP) > http://www.psirp.org/overview/solution.html > > Eric > > > Getting back to the original message, it would be good to break this > into a > > separate item, hence I would request to a time slot on Friday. This is > also > > practical from a "load-balancing" perspective, as the agenda on Thursday > is a lot > > heavier than Friday's. In the peer-mount slot, there are potentially > already three > > other separate drafts to talk to (requirements - use case - mechanism), > and the > > push draft has applicability beyond that. > > > > Thanks > > --- Alex > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: Juergen Schoenwaelder [mailto:j.schoenwaelder@jacobs-university.de > ] > > Sent: Wednesday, November 05, 2014 2:41 PM > > To: Eric Voit (evoit) > > Cc: Kent Watsen; Alexander Clemm (alex); netmod@ietf.org > > Subject: Re: [netmod] ietf 91 netmod agenda (revised) > > > > On Wed, Nov 05, 2014 at 09:56:15PM +0000, Eric Voit (evoit) wrote: > > > > From: Kent Watsen, November 05, 2014 3:13 PM > > > > > > > > > > > > I'm generally supportive of this aspect of the peer-mount drafts, as > I'm > > > > aware of a swelling desire to improve NETCONF Notifications. That > said, > > > > I suggest moving this discussion to the NETCONF WG. > > > > > > We have been wondering about the right home for the push draft. Netmod > > might not be it because a generalized Pub/Sub mechanism might be needed > > beyond YANG encoding. However we are hoping that the Pub/Sub mechanism > > could work with many transports (including multicast transports). Is > NETCONF > > WG able to support a Pub/Sub mechanism maximally decoupled from NETCONF > > transport? > > > > > > > Looking at the charter of this WG, it seems pretty clear that NETMOD is > not > > chartered to do protocol work. And NETMOD can't answer the question > whether > > NETCONF can help you or any other working group. > > > > That said, I am unsure what you want to do. Are we talking about > netmod-clemm-datastore-push-00.txt>? That document defines YANG > > notifications and data objects, so this is a data model. But then you > write "a > > generalized Pub/Sub mechanism might be needed beyond YANG encoding" that > > is "maximally decoupled from NETCONF transport". Is there another I-D > for this? > > I really like to understand things better. > > > > /js > > > > -- > > Juergen Schoenwaelder Jacobs University Bremen gGmbH > > Phone: +49 421 200 3587 Campus Ring 1, 28759 Bremen, Germany > > Fax: +49 421 200 3103 > > _______________________________________________ > netmod mailing list > netmod@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/netmod > --047d7b5d99a36b3b5d050725b55c Content-Type: text/html; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

Eric,

This type of pub/sub functionality is something that is in t= he I2RS architecture.

Regards,
Alia (no hats)

On Nov 5, 2014 6:54 PM, "Eric Voit (evoit)&= quot; <evoit@cisco.com> wrote:=
> From: Alexande= r Clemm, November 05, 2014 5:55 PM
>
> Hi Juergen,
>
> Yes, at its essence, this is a data model.=C2=A0 This is why we think = Netmod is the
> relevant group, and why we would like to discuss it here.
>
> In addition to configuring the subscriptions, there is the issue of ho= w you
> perform the actual push.=C2=A0 This is done by defining a notification= , which will be
> transported using a <notification> element per RFC 5277.
>
> In the future, it is conceivable that alternative transport mappings (= e.g. pub/sub,
> someone even brought up ipfix export) may be defined.=C2=A0 It is our = intention to
> have an architecture that will allow for that, i.e. to have the same s= ubscription
> model apply also in such a case.=C2=A0 But really, this is orthogonal.=

Yes, both Juergen and Andy pointed out that such protocol work is not in Ne= tmod charter.=C2=A0 And I completely agree this is something Netmod should = *not* do.

The point I communicated (poorly) is that additional drafts may need a home= if the IETF desires Pub/Sub mechanisms beyond NETCONF.=C2=A0 Can any of th= is transport specific protocol work be generalized?=C2=A0 I don't know.= =C2=A0 I do know of multiple implementations though.=C2=A0 Just for grins, = below are some academic data-points showing people care...

New Generation SDN-Aware Pub/Sub Environment
http://www.thinkmind.org/download.php?articleid=3D= icn_2014_9_20_30097
(investigates Pub/sub with Multicast, OpenFlow, ALTO)

Efficient Publish-Subscribe Architecture for the Smart Grid using OpenFlow = and MPLS
http://www.cse.iitb.ac.in/~cs620/final_project_ppts/roha= n_7.pdf

Publish Subscribe Internet Routing Paradigm (PSIRP)
h= ttp://www.psirp.org/overview/solution.html

Eric

> Getting back to the original message, it would be good to break this i= nto a
> separate item, hence I would request to a time slot on Friday.=C2=A0 T= his is also
> practical from a "load-balancing" perspective, as the agenda= on Thursday is a lot
> heavier than Friday's.=C2=A0 In the peer-mount slot, there are pot= entially already three
> other separate drafts to talk to (requirements - use case - mechanism)= , and the
> push draft has applicability beyond that.
>
> Thanks
> --- Alex
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Juergen Schoenwaelder [mailto:j.schoenwaelder@jacobs-university.de]
> Sent: Wednesday, November 05, 2014 2:41 PM
> To: Eric Voit (evoit)
> Cc: Kent Watsen; Alexander Clemm (alex); netmod@ietf.org
> Subject: Re: [netmod] ietf 91 netmod agenda (revised)
>
> On Wed, Nov 05, 2014 at 09:56:15PM +0000, Eric Voit (evoit) wrote:
> > > From: Kent Watsen, November 05, 2014 3:13 PM
> > >
> > >
> > > I'm generally supportive of this aspect of the peer-moun= t drafts, as I'm
> > > aware of a swelling desire to improve NETCONF Notifications.= =C2=A0 =C2=A0That said,
> > > I suggest moving this discussion to the NETCONF WG.
> >
> > We have been wondering about the right home for the push draft.= =C2=A0 Netmod
> might not be it because a generalized Pub/Sub mechanism might be neede= d
> beyond YANG encoding.=C2=A0 However we are hoping that the Pub/Sub mec= hanism
> could work with many transports (including multicast transports).=C2= =A0 Is NETCONF
> WG able to support a Pub/Sub mechanism maximally decoupled from NETCON= F
> transport?
> >
>
> Looking at the charter of this WG, it seems pretty clear that NETMOD i= s not
> chartered to do protocol work. And NETMOD can't answer the questio= n whether
> NETCONF can help you or any other working group.
>
> That said, I am unsure what you want to do. Are we talking about <d= raft-
> netmod-clemm-datastore-push-00.txt>? That document defines YANG
> notifications and data objects, so this is a data model. But then you = write "a
> generalized Pub/Sub mechanism might be needed beyond YANG encoding&quo= t; that
> is "maximally decoupled from NETCONF transport". Is there an= other I-D for this?
> I really like to understand things better.
>
> /js
>
> --
> Juergen Schoenwaelder=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0Jacobs U= niversity Bremen gGmbH
> Phone: +49 421 200 3587=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0Campus Ring 1= , 28759 Bremen, Germany
> Fax:=C2=A0 =C2=A0+49 421 200 3103=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0<= ;http://www.= jacobs-university.de/>

_______________________________________________
netmod mailing list
netmod@ietf.org
= https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/netmod
--047d7b5d99a36b3b5d050725b55c-- From nobody Wed Nov 5 17:45:05 2014 Return-Path: X-Original-To: netmod@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: netmod@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id F27381A0010 for ; Wed, 5 Nov 2014 17:45:00 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.005 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.005 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, CN_BODY_35=0.339, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, MIME_CHARSET_FARAWAY=2.45, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-2.3, RP_MATCHES_RCVD=-0.594, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id aT3f4QCgO3Bo for ; Wed, 5 Nov 2014 17:44:58 -0800 (PST) Received: from dfwrgout.huawei.com (dfwrgout.huawei.com [206.16.17.72]) (using TLSv1 with cipher RC4-SHA (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with 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=B7=A2=BC=FE=C8=CB: netmod [mailto:netmod-bou= nces@ietf.org] =B4=FA=B1=ED B= alazs Lengyel
=B7=A2=CB=CD=CA= =B1=BC=E4: 2014=C4=EA11=D4=C25=C8=D5 19:21
=CA=D5=BC=FE=C8=CB: wangzitao; Martin Bjorklund
=B3=AD=CB=CD: netmod@ietf.org
=D6=F7=CC=E2: Re: [netmod] Multiple replace operations on a YANG 1.1 leaf-list

 

Hello,
Yes the list is user-ordered.
In YANG 1.0 it is not described what happens if the operation is replace, a= nd the value already exist.
However we have the following: 

   In an "ordered-by user&quo=
t; leaf-list, the attributes "insert" and
   "value" in the YANG XML na=
mespace (Section 5.3.1=
) can be used to
   control where in the leaf-list the e=
ntry is inserted.  These can be
   used during "create" opera=
tions to insert a new leaf-list entry, or
   during "merge" or "re=
place" operations to insert a new leaf-list
   entry or move an existing one.<=
/o:p>

This to me means that, if a lea= f already exists in a leaf-lists, replace will move it. 

   If no "insert" attrib=
ute is present in the "create" operation, it

   defaults to "last".


=
This to me means, that if insert is not specified one should assume imsert=
=3D"last". I don't understand why merge and replace are not menti=
oned in this sentence.<=
o:p>


[Qin]: My understanding is the statement you quoted ab=
ove is not applied to merge and replace.


=


So I believe the result would be [b,a] because: replace will move the leaf =
a to the last position. (Remove the value and recreate it in the default la=
st position.)

The second replace is really a no-op, but only because "a" is alr=
eady in the last position.

Agree?


 


[Qin]: No, RFC6020 section 7.8.6 also said:=



=A1=B0


If the operation is "merge" or "replace=
",=A1=AD=A1=AD


If the list entry exists and the "insert" an=
d "key"


attributes are not present, the list entry is not move=
d.


=A1=B1


So it seems to me the result should be foo =3D [a,b]


But I agree the second replace is a no-op.<=
/span>


=


regards Balazs




On 2014-11-05 08:30, wangzitao =
wrote:






-----=D3=CA=BC=FE=D4=AD=BC=FE-----


=B7=A2=BC=FE=C8=CB: netmod [mailto:netmod-bounces@ietf.org] =B4=FA=B1=
=ED Martin Bjorklund


=B7=A2=CB=CD=CA=B1=BC=E4: 2014=C4=EA11=D4=C24=C8=D5 21:35


=CA=D5=BC=FE=C8=CB: balazs.lengyel@ericsson.com


=B3=AD=CB=CD: =
netmod@ietf.org


=D6=F7=CC=E2: Re: [netmod] Multiple replace opera=
tions on a YANG 1.1 leaf-list


 


Balazs Lengyel <balazs.lengyel@ericsson.com> wrote:




Hello,


yang-version 1;


leaf-list foo {


   type string;


}




 


I assume you meant ordered-by user as well.<=
/o:p>


 




Initially foo =3D [a,b]


 


<edit-config>


   <config>

      <foo operation=
=3D"replace">a</foo>


      <foo operation=
=3D"replace">a</foo>


   </config>

</edit-config>


 


Is this allowed? IMHO yes and the result will be =
foo =3D [b,a] Agree?




 


No, the result would be:


 


  foo =3D [a,b]


 


The replace operation is a no-op since it 'a' alr=
eady exists.


 


[Michael] why the result is not foo =3D[a,a]? 


Why initial foo=3D[a,b] can not be replaced?=





[BALAZS}: because the leafs are=
 handled individually not together as a leaf-list.






 


 


 


/martin


 


_______________________________________________


netmod mailing list


netmod@ietf.or=
g


https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/netmod<=
/pre>








-- 


Balazs Lengyel      =
;            &n=
bsp;    Ericsson Hungary Ltd.


Senior Specialist


ECN: 831 7320      =
            &nb=
sp;     Tel: +36-1-437-7320


Mobile: +36-70-330-7909   &nbs=
p;          email: Balazs.Lengyel@ericsson.com
--_000_B8F9A780D330094D99AF023C5877DABA84632704nkgeml501mbschi_-- From nobody Thu Nov 6 02:35:09 2014 Return-Path: X-Original-To: netmod@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: netmod@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 50EE51A1AD3 for ; Thu, 6 Nov 2014 02:35:08 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.901 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.901 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, SPF_HELO_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id dugsmJ8xy-Fn for ; Thu, 6 Nov 2014 02:35:06 -0800 (PST) Received: from emea01-am1-obe.outbound.protection.outlook.com (mail-am1on0789.outbound.protection.outlook.com [IPv6:2a01:111:f400:fe00::789]) (using TLSv1 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 860A11A1AD0 for ; Thu, 6 Nov 2014 02:35:04 -0800 (PST) Received: from AMSPR07MB052.eurprd07.prod.outlook.com (10.242.81.27) by AMSPR07MB130.eurprd07.prod.outlook.com (10.242.86.25) with Microsoft SMTP Server (TLS) id 15.1.6.9; Thu, 6 Nov 2014 10:34:41 +0000 Received: from pc6 (86.184.62.161) by AMSPR07MB052.eurprd07.prod.outlook.com (10.242.81.27) with Microsoft SMTP Server (TLS) id 15.1.16.15; Thu, 6 Nov 2014 10:34:40 +0000 Message-ID: <023801cff9ac$e6da6fc0$4001a8c0@gateway.2wire.net> From: t.petch To: Andy Bierman , Benoit Claise References: <79054E89-2D09-4461-8D35-8F6FA025B71F@nic.cz> <43060BE7-53EA-4B9D-B778-2FED58C0D60C@lucidvision.com> <52AE09CB-D4AB-4421-BBA4-1D9C45EA6957@gmail.com> <54590195.3010903@cisco.com> <54595361.5000907@cisco.com> <545965FA.2050308@cisco.com> Date: Thu, 6 Nov 2014 10:31:55 +0000 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1106 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 X-Originating-IP: [86.184.62.161] X-ClientProxiedBy: DB4PR02CA0021.eurprd02.prod.outlook.com (10.242.174.149) To AMSPR07MB052.eurprd07.prod.outlook.com (10.242.81.27) X-Microsoft-Antispam: UriScan:;UriScan:; X-Microsoft-Antispam: BCL:0;PCL:0;RULEID:;SRVR:AMSPR07MB052; X-Exchange-Antispam-Report-Test: UriScan:; X-Forefront-PRVS: 0387D64A71 X-Forefront-Antispam-Report: SFV:NSPM; SFS:(10019020)(6009001)(199003)(13464003)(24454002)(51704005)(189002)(377454003)(479174003)(14496001)(84392001)(87286001)(61296003)(102836001)(19580395003)(19580405001)(101416001)(92566001)(40100003)(116806002)(15975445006)(104166001)(42186005)(97736003)(81686999)(50986999)(76176999)(81816999)(50226001)(33646002)(4396001)(44736004)(93916002)(86362001)(92726001)(23676002)(93886004)(50466002)(46102003)(106356001)(95666004)(66066001)(105586002)(21056001)(62966003)(64706001)(62236002)(87976001)(89996001)(20776003)(47776003)(77156002)(44716002)(77096003)(88136002)(99396003)(122386002)(107046002)(31966008)(120916001)(74416001)(7726001); DIR:OUT; SFP:1102; SCL:1; SRVR:AMSPR07MB052; H:pc6; FPR:; MLV:sfv; PTR:InfoNoRecords; A:0; MX:1; LANG:en; X-Microsoft-Antispam: BCL:0;PCL:0;RULEID:;SRVR:AMSPR07MB130; X-OriginatorOrg: btconnect.com Archived-At: http://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/netmod/9Zf0e_0Zmv7--X4exPwERO98fCQ Cc: netmod@ietf.org, rtg-ads@tools.ietf.org Subject: Re: [netmod] IETF91 NETMOD agenda ? X-BeenThere: netmod@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: NETMOD WG list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 06 Nov 2014 10:35:08 -0000 ----- Original Message ----- From: "Andy Bierman" To: "Benoit Claise" Cc: ; Sent: Wednesday, November 05, 2014 12:11 AM > On Tue, Nov 4, 2014 at 3:49 PM, Benoit Claise wrote: > > On 05/11/2014 00:20, Andy Bierman wrote: > > > > That could be a lot of updates... > > I believe we should focus on the YANG models that don't have an existing WG. > > > > I would prefer to spend all the meeting time > > trying to discuss open issues in chartered items. I don't see why > > the NETMOD WG needs to spend time on status reports for > > any unchartered work. > > > > I don't agree that NETMOD WG should be the home of SYSLOG > > or any other protocol specific data models. IMO all those type of drafts > > should try to find a home in a protocol WG with the right experts. > > > > Sure, NIMY (Not In My Yard) is the easy answer. > > And where should we have syslog? > > https://datatracker.ietf.org/wg/syslog/charter/ is concluded OPSAWG What else is an area WG for? Tom Petch > > It is not NIMBY. The YANG experts are not all SYSLOG experts. > Getting the right people in the room is important (you said that ;-) > Making a few SYSLOG experts sit through 140 minutes of > unrelated material may not be the best option for them either. > > It is unfortunate that the SYSLOG WG has decided the protocol > is complete and no further work is needed. I don't agree IETF > process should be a good reason to choose NETMOD WG. > This draft is already chartered and I am not trying to stop > the SYSLOG work. I don't want it to start a trend though. > > > > Regards, Benoit > > > > > > > Andy > > > > > Andy From nobody Thu Nov 6 02:55:05 2014 Return-Path: X-Original-To: netmod@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: netmod@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id D2DE01A1ADB for ; Thu, 6 Nov 2014 02:55:04 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.901 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.901 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, SPF_HELO_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id TmIGhbg1yL9t for ; Thu, 6 Nov 2014 02:55:02 -0800 (PST) Received: from emea01-am1-obe.outbound.protection.outlook.com (mail-am1on0722.outbound.protection.outlook.com [IPv6:2a01:111:f400:fe00::722]) (using TLSv1 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 2ED641A1ADA for ; Thu, 6 Nov 2014 02:55:01 -0800 (PST) Received: from pc6 (86.184.62.161) by DB3PR07MB060.eurprd07.prod.outlook.com (10.242.137.151) with Microsoft SMTP Server (TLS) id 15.1.6.9; Thu, 6 Nov 2014 10:51:14 +0000 Message-ID: <027c01cff9af$37068180$4001a8c0@gateway.2wire.net> From: t.petch To: Ladislav Lhotka , Andy Bierman , Benoit Claise References: <79054E89-2D09-4461-8D35-8F6FA025B71F@nic.cz> <43060BE7-53EA-4B9D-B778-2FED58C0D60C@lucidvision.com> <52AE09CB-D4AB-4421-BBA4-1D9C45EA6957@gmail.com> <54590195.3010903@cisco.com> <54595361.5000907@cisco.com> <545965FA.2050308@cisco.com> Date: Thu, 6 Nov 2014 10:47:25 +0000 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1106 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 X-Originating-IP: [86.184.62.161] X-ClientProxiedBy: DB4PR02CA0013.eurprd02.prod.outlook.com (10.242.174.141) To DB3PR07MB060.eurprd07.prod.outlook.com (10.242.137.151) X-MS-Exchange-Transport-FromEntityHeader: Hosted X-Microsoft-Antispam: UriScan:; X-Microsoft-Antispam: BCL:0;PCL:0;RULEID:;SRVR:DB3PR07MB060; X-Exchange-Antispam-Report-Test: UriScan:; X-Forefront-PRVS: 0387D64A71 X-Forefront-Antispam-Report: SFV:NSPM; SFS:(10019020)(6009001)(51704005)(189002)(13464003)(199003)(377454003)(4396001)(42186005)(19580405001)(66066001)(40100003)(15975445006)(92566001)(50226001)(93916002)(19580395003)(44736004)(84392001)(104166001)(575784001)(92726001)(86362001)(88136002)(122386002)(93886004)(23756003)(87286001)(47776003)(87976001)(64706001)(20776003)(106356001)(105586002)(95666004)(21056001)(107046002)(33646002)(61296003)(116806002)(46102003)(76176999)(77156002)(44716002)(14496001)(81686999)(81816999)(101416001)(77096003)(50986999)(99396003)(31966008)(50466002)(120916001)(89996001)(62236002)(62966003)(102836001)(97736003)(74416001)(7726001); DIR:OUT; SFP:1102; SCL:1; SRVR:DB3PR07MB060; H:pc6; FPR:; MLV:sfv; PTR:InfoNoRecords; MX:1; A:0; LANG:en; X-OriginatorOrg: btconnect.com Archived-At: http://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/netmod/ngCVXlp0sbFjJCkeWB8RgHZo_x4 Cc: netmod@ietf.org Subject: Re: [netmod] IETF91 NETMOD agenda ? X-BeenThere: netmod@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: NETMOD WG list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 06 Nov 2014 10:55:05 -0000 ----- Original Message ----- From: "Ladislav Lhotka" To: "Andy Bierman" ; "Benoit Claise" Cc: ; Sent: Wednesday, November 05, 2014 8:40 AM Subject: Re: [netmod] IETF91 NETMOD agenda ? > Hi, > > I agree with Andy. I think we already have a LOT to do with the existing > WG items, and YANG 1.1 in particular, and we should devote most of the > WG meeting time to them. Disagree What you do now with YANG 1.1 will not hit the streets for a while; the charter says submit to the IESG in March 2015 and I have never known something like this be early. And then it will be a while before the implementations catch up and then more before the designers of models get there. Benoit just listed some 70 YANG I-Ds and it is safe to assume that within those will be many misunderstandings, bad design choices and plain errors, and once they make it into RFC, they will be with us for years, if not decades, reminding us of how not to do things. The priority here and now should be > 2. Get advice about YANG-related aspects. in the shape of guidelines (or advice to the YANG Directorate) of what to do and how to do it. Even if the Directorate do pick up the worst practices, it would be still more productive for them not to be made in the first place, by the protocol experts in the other WGs who are writing the models. Yes, YANG 1.1 will fix or forestall some of this but for most, it will be too late. I speak from a few decades of experience with SNMP (a much simpler data modelling language:-). Tom Petch Offloading this work to interim telcos is IMO > not good. > > In my view, authors of new YANG modules face three challenges: > > 1. Organize a group of domain experts to work on the substance of the > module (scope, configuration logic, dealing with the legacy of existing > CLIs etc.). > > 2. Get advice about YANG-related aspects. > > 3. Find a home for the module so that it can eventually become an RFC. > > For the most part, #1 and #3 should be done outside NETMOD in an > appropriate IETF area. It involves convincing domain experts that the > work is worth doing in the first place, and then find enough support and > capacity to carry it out. But this is I guess IETF business as > usual. NETMOD WG cannot act as a shortcut for this hard part. And > judging from the recently announced guidelines, I think the routing area > got it pretty much right. > > There might be modules that need to be done in the NETMOD WG, e.g. if > they span multiple areas, but they should be an exception. > > As for #2, I think it is a task for YANG doctors. In this case, I'd be > willing to accept stricter rules and more deterministic workflow so that > module autors receive feedback in a timely manner. > > Lada > > Andy Bierman writes: > > >> > > > > It is not NIMBY. The YANG experts are not all SYSLOG experts. > > Getting the right people in the room is important (you said that ;-) > > Making a few SYSLOG experts sit through 140 minutes of > > unrelated material may not be the best option for them either. > > > > It is unfortunate that the SYSLOG WG has decided the protocol > > is complete and no further work is needed. I don't agree IETF > > process should be a good reason to choose NETMOD WG. > > This draft is already chartered and I am not trying to stop > > the SYSLOG work. I don't want it to start a trend though. > > > > -- > Ladislav Lhotka, CZ.NIC Labs > PGP Key ID: E74E8C0C > > _______________________________________________ > netmod mailing list > netmod@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/netmod From nobody Thu Nov 6 04:45:23 2014 Return-Path: X-Original-To: netmod@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: netmod@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id C40601A1B5F for ; Thu, 6 Nov 2014 04:45:20 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.379 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.379 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, FM_FORGED_GMAIL=0.622, J_CHICKENPOX_15=0.6, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW=-0.7, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id sbtd4gK-VOHw for ; Thu, 6 Nov 2014 04:45:19 -0800 (PST) Received: from mail-qc0-f172.google.com (mail-qc0-f172.google.com [209.85.216.172]) (using TLSv1 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-RC4-SHA (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 302E71A1B5E for ; Thu, 6 Nov 2014 04:45:19 -0800 (PST) Received: by mail-qc0-f172.google.com with SMTP id i17so653369qcy.17 for ; Thu, 06 Nov 2014 04:45:18 -0800 (PST) X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20130820; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:in-reply-to:references:date :message-id:subject:from:to:cc:content-type; bh=/LXfKg/sMr3kt89StpiarEwqorfSVGfXcZthzaJX6PE=; b=k3q23cP1i/YLr7xVKYGLJ3PXQOtsLAJQ3IbPrBtO2b6cwxH/sLtCEGqaKlnC6XwtBo FiIYvAyiyL7OuNk4Uj48y95qB2Hlvm6Dp57n0MNPUj1EEzTqbDJDvquodAiAsPkJIgu8 QZlgWwsbmRyuXbUUORlNUIo8gmEzplpwcEXqpnuVlRylkqztnpPG9y7wOxTs3hovWclK mDZ7uZ7kjZrt/iEMvni+9AJ76QEx7jm6Pk6Hq+O1bhiD1Jav8HpXI+krp85ISEMMqNdv gsbtbivtJlt8XP+S8aAIZ12GwcdWIu+7OqQiYYBxqXs+3bc116FU8U7L2f/15fSjiBu4 VLKQ== X-Gm-Message-State: ALoCoQmRdH4/wGv6at4KdSWr2gk6c4HJS7J+GEymN94+LeLdDlx1rDiSz1uhVFP1MVyoY7DNl791 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Received: by 10.229.79.132 with SMTP id p4mr6506283qck.14.1415277918414; Thu, 06 Nov 2014 04:45:18 -0800 (PST) Received: by 10.140.37.52 with HTTP; Thu, 6 Nov 2014 04:45:18 -0800 (PST) In-Reply-To: <027c01cff9af$37068180$4001a8c0@gateway.2wire.net> References: <79054E89-2D09-4461-8D35-8F6FA025B71F@nic.cz> <43060BE7-53EA-4B9D-B778-2FED58C0D60C@lucidvision.com> <52AE09CB-D4AB-4421-BBA4-1D9C45EA6957@gmail.com> <54590195.3010903@cisco.com> <54595361.5000907@cisco.com> <545965FA.2050308@cisco.com> <027c01cff9af$37068180$4001a8c0@gateway.2wire.net> Date: Thu, 6 Nov 2014 04:45:18 -0800 Message-ID: From: Andy Bierman To: "t.petch" Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Archived-At: http://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/netmod/QeP3sBcFRwlXX4CAzD6Jpt9Zsrg Cc: "netmod@ietf.org" Subject: Re: [netmod] IETF91 NETMOD agenda ? X-BeenThere: netmod@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: NETMOD WG list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 06 Nov 2014 12:45:20 -0000 On Thu, Nov 6, 2014 at 2:47 AM, t.petch wrote: > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Ladislav Lhotka" > To: "Andy Bierman" ; "Benoit Claise" > > Cc: ; > Sent: Wednesday, November 05, 2014 8:40 AM > Subject: Re: [netmod] IETF91 NETMOD agenda ? > > >> Hi, >> >> I agree with Andy. I think we already have a LOT to do with the > existing >> WG items, and YANG 1.1 in particular, and we should devote most of the >> WG meeting time to them. > > Disagree > > What you do now with YANG 1.1 will not hit the streets for a while; the > charter says submit to the IESG in March 2015 and I have never known > something like this be early. And then it will be a while before the > implementations catch up and then more before the designers of models > get there. > > Benoit just listed some 70 YANG I-Ds and it is safe to assume that > within those will be many misunderstandings, bad design choices and > plain errors, and once they make it into RFC, they will be with us for > years, if not decades, reminding us of how not to do things. > So the NETMOD WG should not work on its main chartered item because there are 70 unchartered drafts that happen to contain YANG modules? That doesn't seem very focused. The bad YANG will get fixed. I remember lots of MIB modules were submitted that did not even compile. This is not a work item for the NETMOD WG. For the modules that actually make it to WG draft, they will get fixed before they are published. > The priority here and now should be > >> 2. Get advice about YANG-related aspects. > > in the shape of guidelines (or advice to the YANG Directorate) of what > to do and how to do it. Even if the Directorate do pick up the worst > practices, it would be still more productive for them not to be made in > the first place, by the protocol experts in the other WGs who are > writing the models. > > Yes, YANG 1.1 will fix or forestall some of this but for most, it will > be too late. You think the IETF is going to work through the 70 draft queue by March? It's not that hard to write a reasonable YANG module. It is much harder to get all the vendors to agree on the protocol knobs in the module. > > I speak from a few decades of experience with SNMP (a much simpler data > modelling language:-). > > Tom Petch Andy > Offloading this > work to interim telcos is IMO >> not good. >> >> In my view, authors of new YANG modules face three challenges: >> >> 1. Organize a group of domain experts to work on the substance of the >> module (scope, configuration logic, dealing with the legacy of > existing >> CLIs etc.). >> >> 2. Get advice about YANG-related aspects. >> >> 3. Find a home for the module so that it can eventually become an RFC. >> >> For the most part, #1 and #3 should be done outside NETMOD in an >> appropriate IETF area. It involves convincing domain experts that the >> work is worth doing in the first place, and then find enough support > and >> capacity to carry it out. But this is I guess IETF business as >> usual. NETMOD WG cannot act as a shortcut for this hard part. And >> judging from the recently announced guidelines, I think the routing > area >> got it pretty much right. >> >> There might be modules that need to be done in the NETMOD WG, e.g. if >> they span multiple areas, but they should be an exception. >> >> As for #2, I think it is a task for YANG doctors. In this case, I'd be >> willing to accept stricter rules and more deterministic workflow so > that >> module autors receive feedback in a timely manner. >> >> Lada >> >> Andy Bierman writes: >> >> >> >> > >> > It is not NIMBY. The YANG experts are not all SYSLOG experts. >> > Getting the right people in the room is important (you said that ;-) >> > Making a few SYSLOG experts sit through 140 minutes of >> > unrelated material may not be the best option for them either. >> > >> > It is unfortunate that the SYSLOG WG has decided the protocol >> > is complete and no further work is needed. I don't agree IETF >> > process should be a good reason to choose NETMOD WG. >> > This draft is already chartered and I am not trying to stop >> > the SYSLOG work. I don't want it to start a trend though. >> > >> >> -- >> Ladislav Lhotka, CZ.NIC Labs >> PGP Key ID: E74E8C0C >> >> _______________________________________________ >> netmod mailing list >> netmod@ietf.org >> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/netmod > From nobody Thu Nov 6 05:07:08 2014 Return-Path: X-Original-To: netmod@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: netmod@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id AB3001A1B85 for ; Thu, 6 Nov 2014 05:07:05 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.9 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.9 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9] autolearn=ham Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 4ykCBhR7F87A for ; Thu, 6 Nov 2014 05:07:01 -0800 (PST) Received: from ietfa.amsl.com (localhost [IPv6:::1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id CCDD51A1B94 for ; Thu, 6 Nov 2014 05:06:59 -0800 (PST) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit To: netmod@ietf.org X-Test-IDTracker: no X-IETF-IDTracker: 5.7.2.p1 Auto-Submitted: auto-generated Precedence: bulk Message-ID: <20141106130659.5235.55601.idtracker@ietfa.amsl.com> Date: Thu, 06 Nov 2014 05:06:59 -0800 From: IETF Secretariat Archived-At: http://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/netmod/lrcsKLSH5bt1OwsDmv4a8ZXSY2k Subject: [netmod] Milestones changed for netmod WG X-BeenThere: netmod@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 List-Id: NETMOD WG list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 06 Nov 2014 13:07:06 -0000 URL: http://datatracker.ietf.org/wg/netmod/charter/ From nobody Thu Nov 6 05:29:09 2014 Return-Path: X-Original-To: netmod@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: netmod@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id A84351A1B8E for ; Thu, 6 Nov 2014 05:29:06 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.9 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.9 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9] autolearn=ham Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id MTlIRiF65UmJ for ; Thu, 6 Nov 2014 05:29:05 -0800 (PST) Received: from ietfa.amsl.com (localhost [IPv6:::1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3F1071A1B93 for ; Thu, 6 Nov 2014 05:29:05 -0800 (PST) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit To: netmod@ietf.org X-Test-IDTracker: no X-IETF-IDTracker: 5.7.2.p1 Auto-Submitted: auto-generated Precedence: bulk Message-ID: <20141106132905.15250.92734.idtracker@ietfa.amsl.com> Date: Thu, 06 Nov 2014 05:29:05 -0800 From: IETF Secretariat Archived-At: http://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/netmod/vdCQ0Y27hRPD0_xr3epNKIwisTQ Subject: [netmod] Milestones changed for netmod WG X-BeenThere: netmod@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 List-Id: NETMOD WG list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 06 Nov 2014 13:29:06 -0000 Changed milestone "Syslog Yang model ", set description to "Syslog Yang model to the IESG", set due date to April 2015 from November 2015. URL: http://datatracker.ietf.org/wg/netmod/charter/ From nobody Thu Nov 6 05:29:24 2014 Return-Path: X-Original-To: netmod@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: netmod@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1FBA51A1B93 for ; Thu, 6 Nov 2014 05:29:23 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.9 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.9 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9] autolearn=ham Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id tATjdyead7f6 for ; Thu, 6 Nov 2014 05:29:22 -0800 (PST) Received: from ietfa.amsl.com (localhost [IPv6:::1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id B68FD1A1B94 for ; Thu, 6 Nov 2014 05:29:21 -0800 (PST) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit To: netmod@ietf.org X-Test-IDTracker: no X-IETF-IDTracker: 5.7.2.p1 Auto-Submitted: auto-generated Precedence: bulk Message-ID: <20141106132921.16482.15008.idtracker@ietfa.amsl.com> Date: Thu, 06 Nov 2014 05:29:21 -0800 From: IETF Secretariat Archived-At: http://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/netmod/gwPN6wVOpSs9qsd62_9UB-6jnwc Subject: [netmod] Milestones changed for netmod WG X-BeenThere: netmod@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 List-Id: NETMOD WG list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 06 Nov 2014 13:29:23 -0000 Changed milestone "Syslog Yang model to the IESG", set state to active from review, accepting new milestone. URL: http://datatracker.ietf.org/wg/netmod/charter/ From nobody Thu Nov 6 05:54:49 2014 Return-Path: X-Original-To: netmod@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: netmod@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id B9DDE1A6F0D for ; Thu, 6 Nov 2014 05:54:44 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: 0.293 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=0.293 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, CN_BODY_35=0.339, HTML_FONT_FACE_BAD=0.981, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, MIME_CHARSET_FARAWAY=2.45, MIME_HTML_ONLY=0.723, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-2.3, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 9KpTQayXaOd8 for ; Thu, 6 Nov 2014 05:54:42 -0800 (PST) Received: from sesbmg23.ericsson.net (sesbmg23.ericsson.net [193.180.251.37]) (using TLSv1 with cipher DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id B4CD01A6EFE for ; Thu, 6 Nov 2014 05:54:41 -0800 (PST) X-AuditID: c1b4fb25-f791c6d00000617b-50-545b7d9fb69b Received: from ESESSHC002.ericsson.se (Unknown_Domain [153.88.253.124]) by sesbmg23.ericsson.net (Symantec Mail Security) with SMTP id 33.CA.24955.F9D7B545; Thu, 6 Nov 2014 14:54:39 +0100 (CET) Received: from [159.107.197.98] (153.88.183.153) by smtp.internal.ericsson.com (153.88.183.26) with Microsoft SMTP Server id 14.3.174.1; Thu, 6 Nov 2014 14:54:38 +0100 Message-ID: <545B7D9E.6030406@ericsson.com> Date: Thu, 6 Nov 2014 14:54:38 +0100 From: Balazs Lengyel User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 6.1; WOW64; rv:24.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/24.6.0 MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Qin Wu , wangzitao , Martin Bjorklund References: <5458C7D2.5000001@ericsson.com> <20141104.143434.799725916411839357.mbj@tail-f.com> <545A07FE.6000000@ericsson.com> In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/html; charset="GB2312" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Brightmail-Tracker: H4sIAAAAAAAAA+NgFtrKLMWRmVeSWpSXmKPExsUyM+Jvje782ugQg4ML9S0ez13AatHd/Yzd Yv7FRlaLptdNLA4sHi1H3rJ6LFnyk8lj46/FLAHMUVw2Kak5mWWpRfp2CVwZb6ZsZC643cRY cX37EfYGxisZXYycHBICJhKbFn1nhrDFJC7cW8/WxcjFISRwhFFi2uw3UM5qRombt4+BVfEK aEucXviKFcRmEVCRWDHhJxOIzSZgJDG1/zwLiC0qECVx51I/K0S9oMTJmU/A4iICaRJfZmxn BLGZBdQl7px6DLSAg0NYwFNi7qsckLCQwEQmib+/80FsToEwianr9rBBlGtKfPu5ngnClpdo 3jqbGaJeQ+Lhhb+sExgFZyHZNgtJyywkLQsYmVcxihanFiflphsZ66UWZSYXF+fn6eWllmxi BIbzwS2/VXcwXn7jeIhRgINRiYfX4ElUiBBrYllxZe4hRmkOFiVx3oXn5gULCaQnlqRmp6YW pBbFF5XmpBYfYmTi4JRqYKyy+2j6/vVKt8Z7jd+S/xziKIq/z6Qb/CbQrcp5dprqDR4ePdWD H00z9d/+Wv/s+bvH77xPH77f2yVwWbv7hHvUjTNGuy5GzJwkfG/J3/LbbWoc31fHhk60nSal UJ+jYCS9ffOrovfFAmdV/y5jchN/dq+EO+GU8P9Pr7ykXqYfmreTjcvpTboSS3FGoqEWc1Fx IgAwt/qRSAIAAA== Archived-At: http://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/netmod/wUaJ-H2K44KrZfh_sEMgx8xXL44 Cc: "netmod@ietf.org" Subject: Re: [netmod] Multiple replace operations on a YANG 1.1 leaf-list X-BeenThere: netmod@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: NETMOD WG list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 06 Nov 2014 13:54:44 -0000 Hello,
Chapter 7.8.6 is about edit-config for lists, not leaf-lists. Maybe the lists and leaf-lists should work the same way, but the text for the two is different in RFC 6020. The text is structured in a similar way, but the crucial sentence "If the list entry exists and the insert and key attributes are not present, the list entry is not moved." is missing for leaf-lists.
I would be happy to make this merge-replace a no-op, and add the sentence to 7.7.7, but that's a decision to make.
Martin, Qin, others, is the sentence missing? Should a merge/replace without insert be a no-op or a move? Should we add an errata about this?
regards Balazs

On 2014-11-06 02:44, Qin Wu wrote:

·¢¼þÈË: netmod [mailto:netmod-bounces@ietf.org] ´ú ±í Balazs Lengyel
·¢ ËÍʱ¼ä: 2014Äê11ÔÂ5ÈÕ 19:21
ÊÕ¼þÈË: wangzitao; Martin Bjorklund
³­ËÍ: netmod@ietf.org
Ö÷Ìâ: Re: [netmod] Multiple replace operations on a YANG 1.1 leaf-list

 

Hello,
Yes the list is user-ordered.
In YANG 1.0 it is not described what happens if the operation is replace, and the value already exist.
However we have the following: 

   In an "ordered-by user" leaf-list, the attributes "insert" and
   "value" in the YANG XML namespace (Section 5.3.1) can be used to
   control where in the leaf-list the entry is inserted.  These can be
   used during "create" operations to insert a new leaf-list entry, or
   during "merge" or "replace" operations to insert a new leaf-list
   entry or move an existing one.

This to me means that, if a leaf already exists in a leaf-lists, replace will move it. 

   If no "insert" attribute is present in the "create" operation, it
   defaults to "last".

This to me means, that if insert is not specified one should assume imsert="last". I don't understand why merge and replace are not mentioned in this sentence.

[Qin]: My understanding is the statement you quoted above is not applied to merge and replace.


So I believe the result would be [b,a] because: replace will move the leaf a to the last position. (Remove the value and recreate it in the default last position.)
The second replace is really a no-op, but only because "a" is already in the last position.
Agree?

 

[Qin]: No, RFC6020 section 7.8.6 also said:

¡°

If the operation is "merge" or "replace",¡­¡­

If the list entry exists and the "insert" and "key"

attributes are not present, the list entry is not moved.

¡±

So it seems to me the result should be foo = [a,b]

But I agree the second replace is a no-op.


regards Balazs

On 2014-11-05 08:30, wangzitao wrote:

-----ÓʼþÔ­¼þ-----
·¢¼þÈË: netmod [mailto:netmod-bounces@ietf.org] ´ú±í Martin Bjorklund
·¢ËÍʱ¼ä: 2014Äê11ÔÂ4ÈÕ 21:35
ÊÕ¼þÈË: balazs.lengyel@ericsson.com
³­ËÍ: netmod@ietf.org
Ö÷Ìâ: Re: [netmod] Multiple replace operations on a YANG 1.1 leaf-list
 
Balazs Lengyel <balazs.lengyel@ericsson.com> wrote:
Hello,
yang-version 1;
leaf-list foo {
   type string;
}
 
I assume you meant ordered-by user as well.
 
Initially foo = [a,b]
 
<edit-config>
   <config>
      <foo operation="replace">a</foo>
      <foo operation="replace">a</foo>
   </config>
</edit-config>
 
Is this allowed? IMHO yes and the result will be foo = [b,a] Agree?
 
No, the result would be:
 
  foo = [a,b]
 
The replace operation is a no-op since it 'a' already exists.
 
[Michael] why the result is not foo =[a,a]? 
Why initial foo=[a,b] can not be replaced?

[BALAZS}: because the leafs are handled individually not together as a leaf-list.

 
 
 
/martin
 
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-- 
Balazs Lengyel                       Ericsson Hungary Ltd.
Senior Specialist
ECN: 831 7320                        Tel: +36-1-437-7320
Mobile: +36-70-330-7909              email: Balazs.Lengyel@ericsson.com 

-- 
Balazs Lengyel                       Ericsson Hungary Ltd.
Senior Specialist
ECN: 831 7320                        Tel: +36-1-437-7320
Mobile: +36-70-330-7909              email: Balazs.Lengyel@ericsson.com
From nobody Thu Nov 6 05:56:16 2014 Return-Path: X-Original-To: netmod@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: netmod@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id CD2141A3BA7 for ; Thu, 6 Nov 2014 05:56:13 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -14.095 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-14.095 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, GB_AFFORDABLE=1, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_HI=-5, RP_MATCHES_RCVD=-0.594, SPF_PASS=-0.001, USER_IN_DEF_DKIM_WL=-7.5] autolearn=ham Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id sXCrk2dIl0ce for ; Thu, 6 Nov 2014 05:56:12 -0800 (PST) Received: from alln-iport-1.cisco.com (alln-iport-1.cisco.com [173.37.142.88]) (using TLSv1 with cipher RC4-SHA (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id DA0671A6F01 for ; 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Thu, 6 Nov 2014 13:56:10 GMT Received: from xmb-aln-x11.cisco.com ([169.254.6.106]) by xhc-rcd-x11.cisco.com ([173.37.183.85]) with mapi id 14.03.0195.001; Thu, 6 Nov 2014 07:56:10 -0600 From: "Eric Voit (evoit)" To: Qin Wu , Andy Bierman , "Ambika Prasad Tripathy (ambtripa)" Thread-Topic: [netmod] YANG model containing both device and domain config Thread-Index: AQHP9Ncc0r5QzlOUmUKJvUWcHn/dupxKGtSAgAAB7ACAAC6HAIAABL2AgAAGbgCAABq9AIAALocAgAGdxoCAAAslAP//11BwgAKGV4CAAFFhQIADJ0+AgAF8yWA= Date: Thu, 6 Nov 2014 13:56:09 +0000 Message-ID: References: <3B675C3A8DF102408C754E30986E43CF05CE77E9@xmb-aln-x08.cisco.com> <3B675C3A8DF102408C754E30986E43CF05CE789B@xmb-aln-x08.cisco.com> <20141031101045.GA2139@elstar.local> <3B675C3A8DF102408C754E30986E43CF05CE78D5@xmb-aln-x08.cisco.com> <20141031120930.GA2576@elstar.local> <3B675C3A8DF102408C754E30986E43CF05CF43DC@xmb-aln-x08.cisco.com> In-Reply-To: Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-originating-ip: [10.116.134.131] Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 MIME-Version: 1.0 Archived-At: http://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/netmod/rsigFSBmWA-Di9-2iqH36CDb5GE Cc: "netmod@ietf.org" Subject: Re: [netmod] YANG model containing both device and domain config X-BeenThere: netmod@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: NETMOD WG list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 06 Nov 2014 13:56:14 -0000 PiBGcm9tOiBRaW4gV3UsIE5vdmVtYmVyIDA1LCAyMDE0IDM6MjUgQU0NCj4gDQo+ID4gSXQgc2Vl bXMgY29tcGxpY2F0ZSB0byByZWx5IG9uIG1hbnVhbCBjb25maWd1cmF0aW9uIG9yIHB1Yi9zdWIN Cj4gPiBtZWNoYW5pc20gdG8gc2VhcmNoIGEgc3Vic2V0IG9mIGludGVyZXN0ZWQgZGF0YSBub2Rl cyBpbiB0aGUgcmVtb3RlDQo+ID4gZGF0YXN0b3JlIG9mIGFsbCB0aGUgTkMgc2VydmVycz8NCj4g DQo+IEkgYWdyZWUgdGhpcyBjYW5ub3QgYmUgbWFudWFsLiAgIFRoZSBwdWIvc3ViIGl0c2VsZiB3 aWxsIGJlIGRyaXZlbiBhdXRvbWF0aWNhbGx5Lg0KPiBUaGlzIGlzIGEgY29yZSBjYXBhYmlsaXR5 IG9mIE9wZW5EYXlsaWdodCB3aGljaCBOZXR3b3JrIEVsZW1lbnRzIGNhbiBhbHNvDQo+IGxldmVy YWdlIGluIGNlcnRhaW4gY2FzZXMuDQo+IA0KPiBbUWluXTogSSBhbSBhIGxpdHRsZSBiaXQgY29u Y2VybmVkIGFib3V0IHRoZSBwdWIvc3ViIGJlaW5nIGRyaXZlbiBhdXRvbWF0aWNhbGx5LiBJdA0K PiBzZWVtcyB5b3UgaW1wbHkgTkMgc2VydmVyJ3Mgc3Vic2NyaXB0aW9ucyB0byByZW1vdGUgb2Jq ZWN0IHVwZGF0ZXMgaW4gdGhlDQo+IGNvbnRyb2xsZXIgY2FuIGZ1cnRoZXIgdHJpZ2dlciB0aGlz IGNvbnRyb2xsZXIgdG8gc3Vic2NyaWJlIHRvIHRoZSByZW1vdGUgb2JqZWN0DQo+IHVwZGF0ZXMg aW4gYWxsIHRoZSBOQyBzZXJ2ZXJzPyBIb3cgZG9lcyB0aGlzIGNvbnRyb2xsZXIga25vdyB3aGlj aCBOQyBzZXJ2ZXINCj4gaGFzIHN1YnRyZWVzIG9yIGRhdGEgbm9kZXMgdGhlIGNvbnRyb2xsZXIg aXMgaW50ZXJlc3RlZCBiZWZvcmUgc3ViL3B1c2g/DQo+IE9yIHlvdSBhc3N1bWUgdGhlIGNvbnRy b2xsZXIgcG9sbCBmb3IgYWxsIHRoZSBOQyBzZXJ2ZXJzIGZvciBkaXNjb3Zlcnk/DQoNCk9wZW5E YXlsaWdodCBoYXMgb3ZlciAxMDAgWUFORyBtb2RlbHMgDQpodHRwczovL3dpa2kub3BlbmRheWxp Z2h0Lm9yZy92aWV3L09wZW5EYXlsaWdodF9Db250cm9sbGVyOk1ELVNBTDpNb2RlbF9SZWZlcmVu Y2UgIA0Kb25seSBhIHNtYWxsIHN1YnNldCBvZiB0aGVzZSBhcmUgUkZDcyBvciBJRVRGIGRyYWZ0 cy4gIFRvcG9sb2d5IGFuZCBJbnZlbnRvcnkgbW9kZWxzIGFyZSBpbmNsdWRlZCBpbiB0aGlzIGV4 cGFuZGluZyBzZXQuDQoNCkNvbnRyb2xsZXJzIG11c3QgY29uc3RhbnRseSBtb25pdG9yIHRoZSBu ZXR3b3JrIHZpYSBhIGxhcmdlIHNldCBvZiBwcm90b2NvbHMgYXR0YWNoZWQgdG8gdGhlc2UgbW9k ZWxzIHRvIGhhdmUgYSBtZWFuaW5nZnVsIHZpZXcgb2YgY3VycmVudCBuZXR3b3JrIHN0YXRlLiAg IEF1dG8tZGlzY292ZXJ5IG9mIGV2ZXJ5dGhpbmcgaXMgZXNzZW50aWFsIGZvciBhbnkgY29udHJv bGxlciB0byBvcGVyYXRlIGFmZm9yZGFibHkuICBUaGlzIGlzIGluZGVwZW5kZW50IG9mIGFueSBQ dWIvU3ViLg0KDQpBcyB0aGUgY29udHJvbGxlcidzIHRvcG9sb2d5IGFuZCBpbnZlbnRvcnkgZ2V0 IGF1dG8tcG9wdWxhdGVkLCBBcHBsaWNhdGlvbnMgbWF5IHVzZSB0aGlzIGluZm9ybWF0aW9uIHRv IGdsZWFuIHdoYXQgdHlwZSB0YXJnZXRlZCBzdWJzY3JpcHRpb25zIGFyZSB2aWFibGUuICBBcyB5 b3Ugc3VnZ2VzdCwgaW5kaXNjcmltaW5hbnQgc3Vic2NyaXB0aW9ucyBhcmUgdW5hZmZvcmRhYmxl Lg0KIA0KPiA+IElmIHlvdSBhcmUgcHJvcG9zaW5nIGluY3JlbWVudGFsIHVwZGF0ZSwgd2h5IG5v dCBhc2sgYXBwbGljYXRpb24NCj4gPiBzdWJzY3JpYmVyIHRvIGVhY2ggTkMgc2VydmVyL2Rldmlj ZSBkaXJlY3RseT8gV2h5IGNvbXBsaWNhdGUNCj4gPiBjb250cm9sbGVyIHRvIGNhY2hlIHVwZGF0 ZWQgZGF0YSByZXRyaWV2ZWQgZnJvbSBlYWNoIHJlbW90ZSBkYXRhc3RvcmUgaW4gYWxsDQo+IHRo ZSBOQyBzZXZlcnM/DQo+IA0KPiBQZXJmb3JtYW5jZSB0aW1lIGZvciBzb21lIGFwcGxpY2F0aW9u cyBkZW1hbmRzIGxvY2FsIGNhY2hpbmcuICBJbiBhZGRpdGlvbiwgMTpODQo+IGFuZCBldmVuIHR3 byB0aWVyZWQgZGlzdHJpYnV0aW9uIG9mIFBlZXIgTW91bnQgdXBkYXRlcyB3aWxsIHJlZHVjZSBz Y2FsaW5nDQo+IHJlcXVpcmVtZW50cyBmb3IgdGhlIEF1dGhvcml0YXRpdmUgZGF0YSBzb3VyY2Uu DQo+IA0KPiBbUWluXTogQWdhaW4sIEkgaGF2ZSBjb25jZXJuIGFib3V0IHR3byB0aWVyZWQgZGlz dHJpYnV0aW9uIG9mIFBlZXIgTW91bnQsIGhvdw0KPiBkb2VzIHRoZSBOQyBzZXJ2ZXIga25vd3Mg d2hpY2ggY29udHJvbGxlciBjYW4gcHJvdmlkZSBpdHMgaW50ZXJlc3RlZCBkYXRhDQo+IGJlZm9y ZSBzdWJzY3JpcHRpb24/IEhvdyBkb2VzIHRoZSBjb250cm9sbGVyIGtub3dzIFdoaWNoIE5DIHNl cnZlciBjYW4NCj4gcHJvdmlkZSBpdHMgaW50ZXJlc3RlZCBkYXRhIGJlZm9yZSBzdWJzY3JpcHRp b24uIEJsaW5kIHN1YnNjcmlwdGlvbiBzZWVtcyB0aW1lDQo+IHdhc3Rpbmcgb3Igbm90IGVmZmlj aWVudC4NCg0KQWdyZWUgdGhhdCBibGluZCBzdWJzY3JpcHRpb25zIGFyZSB0b3RhbGx5IHVuYWZm b3JkYWJsZS4gIE9wZW5EYXlsaWdodCBoYXMgbm90IGluc3RpdHV0ZWQgbWFueSBjb250cm9scyB5 ZXQgdGhhdCBzdG9wIGFwcGxpY2F0aW9ucyBmcm9tIG1ha2luZyBkdW1iIGRlc2lnbiBjaG9pY2Vz Lg0KDQpBcyBmb3IgdHdvIHRpZXJlZCBkaXN0cmlidXRpb24sIHRoaXMgaXMgaW1wbGVtZW50ZWQg YnkgbWFueSB2ZW5kb3JzIC0tIGFsdGhvdWdoIG9mdGVuIGl0IGlzIG9mdGVuIGhpZGRlbiB1bmRl ciB0aGUgY292ZXJzLiAgRm9yIGV4YW1wbGUsIGRpc3RyaWJ1dGVkIGxpbmUgY2FyZHMgd2lsbCBv ZnRlbiBiZSBzZWNvbmRhcnkgcmVjaXBpZW50cyBvZiBjb25maWcgaW5mb3JtYXRpb24gcGFzc2Vk IHRvIGEgbGFyZ2Ugcm91dGVyLiAgQW5vdGhlciBnb29kIGV4YW1wbGUgaXMgRE5TIHdoaWNoIGhh cyBhIG11bHRpLXRpZXIgaW1wbGVtZW50YXRpb24gdG8gZW5hYmxlIGhpZ2ggc2NhbGFiaWxpdHku DQoNCkkgZG9uJ3QgbmVlZCBtdWx0aS10aWVyIGZvciB0aGUgYXBwbGljYXRpb25zIEkgYW0gYnVp bGRpbmcuICBCdXQgSSBkb24ndCB3YW50IHRvIHByZWNsdWRlIHRoaXMgb3B0aW9uIGZvciB0aG9z ZSB3aG8gbWlnaHQgZmluZCBpdCB1c2VmdWwuDQoNCkVyaWMNCiANCj4gRXJpYw0K From nobody Thu Nov 6 05:57:35 2014 Return-Path: X-Original-To: netmod@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: netmod@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 116131A3BA7 for ; Thu, 6 Nov 2014 05:57:33 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.496 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.496 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, RP_MATCHES_RCVD=-0.594, SPF_HELO_PASS=-0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 1WEzEQs98AOa for ; Thu, 6 Nov 2014 05:57:31 -0800 (PST) Received: from lucidvision.com (lucidvision.com [72.71.250.34]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7E65B1A6EFE for ; Thu, 6 Nov 2014 05:57:29 -0800 (PST) Received: from [192.168.1.123] (static-72-71-250-38.cncdnh.fast04.myfairpoint.net [72.71.250.38]) by lucidvision.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id DD3F029018D3; Thu, 6 Nov 2014 08:57:28 -0500 (EST) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=windows-1252 Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 8.0 \(1990.1\)) From: "Thomas D. Nadeau" In-Reply-To: <1FAD9E24-8531-471E-BB98-85915CE4797E@nic.cz> Date: Thu, 6 Nov 2014 08:57:28 -0500 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Message-Id: References: <20141105143508.GA24535@elstar.local> <02A36928-5B70-452E-A27A-3FD82EDE4347@nic.cz> <20141105154007.GA24808@elstar.local> <1FAD9E24-8531-471E-BB98-85915CE4797E@nic.cz> To: Ladislav Lhotka X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.1990.1) Archived-At: http://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/netmod/yKPYWE-JGtjyChxwIUOKzmTKZy0 Cc: netmod@ietf.org Subject: Re: [netmod] ietf 91 netmod agenda (revised) X-BeenThere: netmod@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: NETMOD WG list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 06 Nov 2014 13:57:33 -0000 20 min is cool. > On Nov 5, 2014:10:47 AM, at 10:47 AM, Ladislav Lhotka = wrote: >=20 >=20 > On 05 Nov 2014, at 16:40, Juergen Schoenwaelder = wrote: >=20 >> On Wed, Nov 05, 2014 at 04:06:07PM +0100, Ladislav Lhotka wrote: >>>=20 >>> On 05 Nov 2014, at 15:35, Juergen Schoenwaelder = wrote: >>>=20 >>>> Hi, >>>>=20 >>>> I have uploaded a new agenda. >>>=20 >>> * A YANG Data Model for Routing Management 17:45-17:55 = (10 min) >>>=20 >>> https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-netmod-routing-cfg-16 >>>=20 >>> I don=92t know yet how far-reaching the discussion in the rtgwg = meeting is going to be but 10 minutes will hardly suffice =96 unless the = conclusion from the routing folks will be that it is all rubbish and we = should stop it. >>>=20 >>=20 >> We do not know either. Your proposal? We have to plan with something. >=20 > 20 minutes at least, but I am OK with Tom=92s answer. >=20 > Lada >=20 >>=20 >> /js >>=20 >> --=20 >> Juergen Schoenwaelder Jacobs University Bremen gGmbH >> Phone: +49 421 200 3587 Campus Ring 1, 28759 Bremen, Germany >> Fax: +49 421 200 3103 >=20 > -- > Ladislav Lhotka, CZ.NIC Labs > PGP Key ID: E74E8C0C >=20 >=20 >=20 >=20 > _______________________________________________ > netmod mailing list > netmod@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/netmod >=20 From nobody Thu Nov 6 06:08:05 2014 Return-Path: X-Original-To: netmod@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: netmod@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id CF1CC1A871D for ; Thu, 6 Nov 2014 06:07:55 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.496 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.496 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, RP_MATCHES_RCVD=-0.594, SPF_HELO_PASS=-0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id vuBqTE1LRSrJ for ; Thu, 6 Nov 2014 06:07:49 -0800 (PST) Received: from lucidvision.com (lucidvision.com [72.71.250.34]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4A99B1A8708 for ; Thu, 6 Nov 2014 06:07:49 -0800 (PST) Received: from [192.168.1.123] (static-72-71-250-38.cncdnh.fast04.myfairpoint.net [72.71.250.38]) by lucidvision.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id BA32929019D7; Thu, 6 Nov 2014 09:07:48 -0500 (EST) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 8.0 \(1990.1\)) From: "Thomas D. Nadeau" In-Reply-To: Date: Thu, 6 Nov 2014 09:07:48 -0500 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Message-Id: <4F705055-7174-430E-A9FF-859E3502D300@lucidvision.com> References: <20141105143508.GA24535@elstar.local> To: Andy Bierman X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.1990.1) Archived-At: http://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/netmod/K_zsuYX4BFpDiCovc6gk8v9UV9A Cc: "netmod@ietf.org" Subject: Re: [netmod] ietf 91 netmod agenda (revised) X-BeenThere: netmod@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: NETMOD WG list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 06 Nov 2014 14:07:57 -0000 That is correct. We are not chartered to do protocol work. The = notif stuff belongs elsewhere I think.=20 --Tom > On Nov 5, 2014:5:05 PM, at 5:05 PM, Andy Bierman = wrote: >=20 > On Wed, Nov 5, 2014 at 1:56 PM, Eric Voit (evoit) = wrote: >>> From: Kent Watsen, November 05, 2014 3:13 PM >>>=20 >>>=20 >>> I'm generally supportive of this aspect of the peer-mount drafts, as = I'm >>> aware of a swelling desire to improve NETCONF Notifications. That = said, >>> I suggest moving this discussion to the NETCONF WG. >>=20 >> We have been wondering about the right home for the push draft. = Netmod might not be it because a generalized Pub/Sub mechanism might be = needed beyond YANG encoding. However we are hoping that the Pub/Sub = mechanism could work with many transports (including multicast = transports). Is NETCONF WG able to support a Pub/Sub mechanism = maximally decoupled from NETCONF transport? >>=20 >=20 >=20 > The NETMOD WG may have a wide open charter, but I am pretty sure > it does not include any protocol work at all. I don't know if NETCONF > is the right WG, but this is not in scope for NETMOD. >=20 >=20 >> Eric >=20 > Andy >=20 >>=20 >>> Thanks, >>> Kent >>>=20 >>>=20 >>> On 11/5/14, 2:34 PM, "Alexander Clemm (alex)" = wrote: >>>=20 >>>> Just one comment, peer mount includes also datastore push, which as = a >>>> topic can also stand on its own / independent of peer mount, due to = its >>>> ramifications e.g. for applications that relate to service = assurance >>>> (that may otherwise feel compelled to revert to periodic polling, = or >>>> not see a reason to use YANG/Netconf). Could we call that out as a >>>> separate item, perhaps on Friday (where we also have more room for = AOB, >>>> and one less thing to cram into an already crowded agenda on = Thursday)? >>>> Thanks >>>> --- Alex >>>>=20 >>>> -----Original Message----- >>>> From: netmod [mailto:netmod-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of Juergen >>>> Schoenwaelder >>>> Sent: Wednesday, November 05, 2014 6:35 AM >>>> To: netmod@ietf.org >>>> Subject: [netmod] ietf 91 netmod agenda (revised) >>>>=20 >>>> Hi, >>>>=20 >>>> I have uploaded a new agenda. >>>>=20 >>>> http://www.ietf.org/proceedings/91/agenda/agenda-91-netmod >>>>=20 >>>> Note that the agenda may not be 100% correct or complete but = hopefully >>>> we are converging to something stable. We try to take into account = that >>>> certain contributors are not available on Friday. Please send = requests >>>> for changes to the list or to both co-chairs since this will make >>>> synchronization easier. While Tom will run both meetings, we (the >>>> chairs) generally split responsibility between us - infrastructure = work >>>> primarily goes to me, data modeling work primarily goes to Tom. >>>>=20 >>>> /js >>>>=20 >>>> -- >>>> Juergen Schoenwaelder Jacobs University Bremen gGmbH >>>> Phone: +49 421 200 3587 Campus Ring 1, 28759 Bremen, = Germany >>>> Fax: +49 421 200 3103 >>>>=20 >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> netmod mailing list >>>> netmod@ietf.org >>>> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/netmod >>>>=20 >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> netmod mailing list >>>> netmod@ietf.org >>>> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/netmod >>>=20 >>> _______________________________________________ >>> netmod mailing list >>> netmod@ietf.org >>> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/netmod >>=20 >> _______________________________________________ >> netmod mailing list >> netmod@ietf.org >> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/netmod >=20 > _______________________________________________ > netmod mailing list > netmod@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/netmod >=20 From nobody Thu Nov 6 07:39:49 2014 Return-Path: X-Original-To: netmod@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: netmod@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id BD3DD1A1B36 for ; Thu, 6 Nov 2014 07:39:45 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.979 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.979 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, FM_FORGED_GMAIL=0.622, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW=-0.7, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id duV8Ay4eAp1N for ; Thu, 6 Nov 2014 07:39:44 -0800 (PST) Received: from mail-qa0-f43.google.com (mail-qa0-f43.google.com [209.85.216.43]) (using TLSv1 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-RC4-SHA (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 39AA21A87F2 for ; Thu, 6 Nov 2014 07:38:17 -0800 (PST) Received: by mail-qa0-f43.google.com with SMTP id j7so908290qaq.16 for ; Thu, 06 Nov 2014 07:38:16 -0800 (PST) X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20130820; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:in-reply-to:references:date :message-id:subject:from:to:cc:content-type; bh=FH4qQOBwznzyEMbe/2RZigho0raEvvxSdI3X2ucEDUU=; b=aykZI8q/5mSORARkiQ29Eu1e1jj9KhgPss2VTuaCd0UnoPzKlVwDh9D1ih+Eee5Dj2 BVba1VafDwUL/rWehNHJFhNovCSV8s9s9BOqFMAa20WmEVVw50S1FTaoCVhQ5gTvzmTg 0gwxdtZxeNjJp52tPoTIDUSxTij4hoZIcE8VXgDJx7CHH2ZR47iLrnjH4zrYbKmSokAU Ba2GpAUnILlqK5OD/rvXLi4QkhinRgaEOJch915zWjoHUo4NkrlXNB4Grf5mwA9nPlhJ oCgDSbOfuq+p0jU02vdKfPJGcZ0eolRVQGfaRPlRPM3TaasuNcy1dQH2SAoFookrogY6 3NBQ== X-Gm-Message-State: ALoCoQkD5nHMmwJnb21TND5JPZ8swtSV/y59J7FdrZQA17Ua6w+EQStAPHwSAQKRzxN5wC3E0Xzz MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Received: by 10.229.105.196 with SMTP id u4mr7995727qco.27.1415288296308; Thu, 06 Nov 2014 07:38:16 -0800 (PST) Received: by 10.140.37.52 with HTTP; Thu, 6 Nov 2014 07:38:16 -0800 (PST) In-Reply-To: <20141105.155554.113656028962485180.mbj@tail-f.com> References: <20141105141403.GE24310@elstar.local> <20141105.155554.113656028962485180.mbj@tail-f.com> Date: Thu, 6 Nov 2014 07:38:16 -0800 Message-ID: From: Andy Bierman To: Martin Bjorklund Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Archived-At: http://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/netmod/PBRMwxvMg9MuHTPBreTyYn5Dmlc Cc: "netmod@ietf.org" Subject: Re: [netmod] VRFY :Y58: associate an actions with a data node X-BeenThere: netmod@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: NETMOD WG list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 06 Nov 2014 15:39:45 -0000 Hi, OK, I thought Juergen meant the generic data wrapper, not the literal element wrapper. That is fine. But what about NACM? We are the co-authors, and I think we are willing to do the editing, but it is up to the IESG to charter and the WG to do the work. What about I2RS requirements for owner-based access-control? IMO NACM is applied first. Owner priority applies when the data already exists (both clients have NACM permission). It is not clear if any changes to NACM are required to support I2RS. Andy On Wed, Nov 5, 2014 at 6:55 AM, Martin Bjorklund wrote: > Andy Bierman wrote: >> On Wed, Nov 5, 2014 at 6:14 AM, Juergen Schoenwaelder >> wrote: >> > The 2014-10-15 virtual interim meeting proposal is to use the encoding >> > but to remove the data wrapper. In addition, issue Y36 should be >> > opened again, asking for proposals how to encode notifications >> > associated with data nodes. >> > >> >> >> I do not remember that we agreed to remove the data wrapper >> (meaning the instance information for the action). > > NOTE: this means that instead of doing: > > xmlns="urn:ietf:params:xml:ns:netconf:base:1.0" > xmlns:yang="urn:ietf:params:xml:ns:yang:1"> > > > > apache-1 > > 2014-07-29T13:42Z > > > > > > > we'd do: > > xmlns="urn:ietf:params:xml:ns:netconf:base:1.0" > xmlns:yang="urn:ietf:params:xml:ns:yang:1"> > > > apache-1 > > 2014-07-29T13:42Z > > > > > > > > > /martin From nobody Thu Nov 6 20:00:37 2014 Return-Path: X-Original-To: netmod@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: netmod@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0B2BF1A0363 for ; Thu, 6 Nov 2014 20:00:36 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.005 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.005 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, CN_BODY_35=0.339, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, MIME_CHARSET_FARAWAY=2.45, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-2.3, RP_MATCHES_RCVD=-0.594, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id O25GcpgpE2jO for ; Thu, 6 Nov 2014 20:00:31 -0800 (PST) Received: from lhrrgout.huawei.com (lhrrgout.huawei.com [194.213.3.17]) (using TLSv1 with cipher RC4-SHA (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 24F461A034F for ; Thu, 6 Nov 2014 20:00:30 -0800 (PST) Received: from 172.18.7.190 (EHLO lhreml404-hub.china.huawei.com) ([172.18.7.190]) by lhrrg01-dlp.huawei.com (MOS 4.3.7-GA FastPath queued) with ESMTP id BOM54961; Fri, 07 Nov 2014 04:00:28 +0000 (GMT) Received: from NKGEML401-HUB.china.huawei.com (10.98.56.32) by lhreml404-hub.china.huawei.com (10.201.5.218) with Microsoft SMTP Server (TLS) id 14.3.158.1; Fri, 7 Nov 2014 04:00:26 +0000 Received: from NKGEML501-MBS.china.huawei.com ([169.254.2.21]) by nkgeml401-hub.china.huawei.com ([10.98.56.32]) with mapi id 14.03.0158.001; Fri, 7 Nov 2014 12:00:16 +0800 From: Qin Wu To: Balazs Lengyel , wangzitao , Martin Bjorklund Thread-Topic: [netmod] Multiple replace operations on a YANG 1.1 leaf-list Thread-Index: AQHP+CuzZ2D9EyY9mkm8aQ+eSC/LKJxP8bAAgAEsjYCAAEBSAIABdAjAgABJXgCAAW22gA== Date: Fri, 7 Nov 2014 04:00:15 +0000 Message-ID: References: <5458C7D2.5000001@ericsson.com> <20141104.143434.799725916411839357.mbj@tail-f.com> <545A07FE.6000000@ericsson.com> <545B7D9E.6030406@ericsson.com> In-Reply-To: <545B7D9E.6030406@ericsson.com> Accept-Language: zh-CN, en-US Content-Language: zh-CN X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-originating-ip: [10.138.41.180] Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="_000_B8F9A780D330094D99AF023C5877DABA84632E1Fnkgeml501mbschi_" MIME-Version: 1.0 X-CFilter-Loop: Reflected Archived-At: 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 = ;

=B7=A2=BC=FE=C8=CB: Balazs Lengyel [mailto:ba= lazs.lengyel@ericsson.com]
=B7=A2=CB=CD=CA= =B1=BC=E4: 2014=C4=EA11=D4=C26=C8=D5 21:55
=CA=D5=BC=FE=C8=CB: Qin Wu; wangzitao; Martin Bjorklund
=B3=AD=CB=CD: netmod@ietf.org
=D6=F7=CC=E2: Re: [netmod] Multiple replace operations on a YANG 1.1 leaf-list

 

Hello, Chapter 7.8.6 is about edit-config for lists, not leaf-lists. Maybe the lis= ts and leaf-lists should work the same way, but the text for the two is dif= ferent in RFC 6020. The text is structured in a similar way, but the crucia= l sentence "If the list entry exists and the insert and key attributes are not present, t= he list entry is not moved." is missing for le= af-lists.

[Qin]:It looks the above statement is also applied to = leaf-lists.


I would be happy to make this merge-replace a no-op, and add the sentence t= o 7.7.7, but that's a decision to make.
Martin, Qin, others, is the sentence missing? Should a merge/replace withou= t insert be a no-op or a move?

[Qin]: in my understanding, without insert, it is a no= -op, with insert, it is a move.

Should w= e add an errata about this?

regards = Balazs

On 2014-11-06 02:44, Qin Wu wro= te:

=B7=A2=BC=FE=C8=CB: netmod [mailto:netmod-bounces@ietf.org] =B4=FA =B1=ED <= /span>= Balazs Lengyel
=B7=A2 =CB=CD= =CA=B1=BC=E4: 2014=C4=EA11=D4=C25=C8=D5 19:21
=CA=D5=BC=FE=C8=CB: wangzitao; Martin Bjorklund
=B3=AD=CB=CD: netmod@ietf.org
=D6=F7=CC=E2: Re: [netmod] Multiple replace operations on a YANG 1.1 leaf-list

 

Hello,
Yes the list is user-ordered.
In YANG 1.0 it is not described what happens if the operation is replace, a= nd the value already exist.
However we have the following: 


   In an "ordered-by user&quo=
t; leaf-list, the attributes "insert" and
   "value" in the YANG XML na=
mespace (Section 5.3.1=
) can be used to
   control where in the leaf-list the e=
ntry is inserted.  These can be
   used during "create" opera=
tions to insert a new leaf-list entry, or
   during "merge" or "re=
place" operations to insert a new leaf-list
   entry or move an existing one.<=
/o:p>

This to me means that, if a lea= f already exists in a leaf-lists, replace will move it. 


   If no "insert" attrib=
ute is present in the "create" operation, it

   defaults to "last".


=
This to me means, that if insert is not specified one should assume imsert=
=3D"last". I don't understand why merge and replace are not menti=
oned in this sentence.


[Qin]: My understanding is the statement you quoted ab=
ove is not applied to merge and replace.


=


So I believe the result would be [b,a] because: replace will move the leaf =
a to the last position. (Remove the value and recreate it in the default la=
st position.)

The second replace is really a no-op, but only because "a" is alr=
eady in the last position.

Agree?


 

[Qin]: No, RFC6020 section 7.8.6 also said:


=A1=B0

If the operation is "merge" or "replace=
",=A1=AD=A1=AD


If the list entry exists and the "insert" an=
d "key"


attributes are not present, the list entry is not move=
d.


=A1=B1

So it seems to me the result should be foo =3D [a,b]


But I agree the second replace is a no-op.


=


regards Balazs




On 2014-11-05 08:30, wangzitao =
wrote:






-----=D3=CA=BC=FE=D4=AD=BC=FE-----


=B7=A2=BC=FE=C8=CB: netmod [mailto:netmod-bounces@ietf.org] =B4=FA=B1=
=ED Martin Bjorklund


=B7=A2=CB=CD=CA=B1=BC=E4: 2014=C4=EA11=D4=C24=C8=D5 21:35


=CA=D5=BC=FE=C8=CB: balazs.lengyel@ericsson.com


=B3=AD=CB=CD: =
netmod@ietf.org


=D6=F7=CC=E2: Re: [netmod] Multiple replace opera=
tions on a YANG 1.1 leaf-list


 


Balazs Lengyel <balazs.lengyel@ericsson.com> wrote:




Hello,


yang-version 1;


leaf-list foo {


   type string;


}




 


I assume you meant ordered-by user as well.<=
/o:p>


 




Initially foo =3D [a,b]


 


<edit-config>


   <config>

      <foo operation=
=3D"replace">a</foo>


      <foo operation=
=3D"replace">a</foo>


   </config>

</edit-config>


 


Is this allowed? IMHO yes and the result will be =
foo =3D [b,a] Agree?




 


No, the result would be:


 


  foo =3D [a,b]


 


The replace operation is a no-op since it 'a' alr=
eady exists.


 


[Michael] why the result is not foo =3D[a,a]? 


Why initial foo=3D[a,b] can not be replaced?=





[BALAZS}: because the leafs are=
 handled individually not together as a leaf-list.








 


 


 


/martin


 


_______________________________________________


netmod mailing list


netmod@ietf.or=
g


https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/netmod<=
/pre>










-- 


Balazs Lengyel      =
;            &n=
bsp;    Ericsson Hungary Ltd.


Senior Specialist


ECN: 831 7320      =
            &nb=
sp;     Tel: +36-1-437-7320


Mobile: +36-70-330-7909   &nbs=
p;          email: Balazs.Lengyel@ericsson.com 





-- 
Balazs Lengyel      =
;            &n=
bsp;    Ericsson Hungary Ltd.
Senior Specialist
ECN: 831 7320      =
            &nb=
sp;     Tel: +36-1-437-7320
Mobile: +36-70-330-7909   &nbs=
p;          email: Balazs.Lengyel@ericsson.com
--_000_B8F9A780D330094D99AF023C5877DABA84632E1Fnkgeml501mbschi_-- From nobody Fri Nov 7 01:19:45 2014 Return-Path: X-Original-To: netmod@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: netmod@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 80E7A1A88FA for ; Fri, 7 Nov 2014 01:19:38 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.494 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.494 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, RP_MATCHES_RCVD=-0.594] autolearn=ham Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id kSBimDaHTYLS for ; Fri, 7 Nov 2014 01:19:32 -0800 (PST) Received: from gate.mg-soft.si (gate.mg-soft.si [212.30.73.66]) (using TLSv1 with cipher DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id DC6C61AC42C for ; Fri, 7 Nov 2014 01:19:31 -0800 (PST) Received: from [10.0.0.222] (tp-x61t.mg-soft.si [10.0.0.222]) by gate.mg-soft.si (8.13.8/8.13.8) with ESMTP id sA79JTW4017069; Fri, 7 Nov 2014 10:19:29 +0100 Message-ID: <545C8E9D.2070100@mg-soft.com> Date: Fri, 07 Nov 2014 10:19:25 +0100 From: Jernej Tuljak User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 6.1; WOW64; rv:17.0) Gecko/17.0 Thunderbird/17.0 MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Andy Bierman References: <20141023233014.23083.56508.idtracker@ietfa.amsl.com> <545A23A1.20006@mg-soft.com> In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Archived-At: http://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/netmod/I1599MXdJc9gUUorqkJEaUNZdQA Cc: "netmod@ietf.org" Subject: Re: [netmod] I-D Action: draft-ietf-netmod-rfc6087bis-01.txt X-BeenThere: netmod@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: NETMOD WG list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 07 Nov 2014 09:19:39 -0000 Dne 5.11.2014 16:07, piÅ¡e Andy Bierman: > Hi, > > Can you suggest replacement text for the specific details you do not like? > I will look into your comments on the Axes and Wildcards sections. See below. > > Andy > > > On Wed, Nov 5, 2014 at 5:18 AM, Jernej Tuljak wrote: >> (now replying to the proper thread) >> >> I see that the issues I raised regarding XPath expressions >> (http://www.ietf.org/mail-archive/web/netmod/current/msg10172.html) have now >> made it into rfc6087bis-01 section 5.5. >> >> Section 5.5.1, what should a YANG compiler return for 'namespace-uri()' and >> 'name()' function if they are used? OLD: The 'namespace-uri' and 'name' functions SHOULD NOT be used. Expanded names in XPath are different than YANG. A specific canonical representation of a YANG expanded name does not exist. NEW: The 'namespace-uri' and 'name' functions SHOULD NOT be used. Expanded names in XPath are different than YANG. A specific canonical representation of a YANG expanded name does not exist. The YANG compiler SHOULD return an empty string for both of these functions. >> >> I still disagree with Section 5.5.2 Axes, where it describes usage >> guidelines of preceding-sibling and following-sibling. These may be used >> without issue if document order does not affect the outcome of the >> expression, the same way preceding and following can be. See Ladislav's >> suggestion for a possible solution >> (http://www.ietf.org/mail-archive/web/netmod/current/msg10191.html). OLD: The 'preceding', and 'following' axes SHOULD NOT be used. These constructs rely on XML document order within a NETCONF server configuration database, which may not be supported consistently or produce reliable results across implementations. Predicate expressions based on static node properties (e.g., element name or value, 'ancestor' or 'descendant' axes) SHOULD be used instead. The 'preceding' and 'following' axes MAY be used if document order is not relevant to the outcome of the expression (e.g., check for global uniqueness of a parameter value). The 'preceding-sibling' and 'following-sibling' axes SHOULD NOT used. A server is only required to maintain the relative XML document order of all instances of a particular user-ordered list or leaf-list. The 'preceding-sibling' and 'following-sibling' axes MAY be used if they are evaluated in a context where the context node is a user-ordered 'list' or 'leaf-list'. NEW: The 'preceding', 'following', 'preceding-sibling' and 'following-sibling' axes SHOULD NOT be used. These constructs rely on XML document order within a NETCONF server configuration database, which may not be supported consistently or produce reliable results across implementations. Predicate expressions based on static node properties (e.g., element name or value, 'ancestor' or 'descendant' axes) SHOULD be used instead. The 'preceding', 'following', 'preceding-sibling' and 'following-sibling' axes MAY be used if document order is not relevant to the outcome of the expression (e.g., check for global uniqueness of a parameter value). A server is only required to maintain the relative XML document order of all instances of a particular user-ordered list or leaf-list. The 'preceding-sibling' and 'following-sibling' axes MAY be used if they are evaluated in a context where the context node is a user-ordered 'list' or 'leaf-list'. >> >> Section 5.5.4. Wildcards: >> * (first paragraph) the last sentence ("This is due to augmenting nodes from >> other modules."), seems redundant or wrong. Augmentation is not the only >> thing that affects XPath expressions that use wildcards. Simply implementing >> another module that defines a data tree is enough. >> * (second paragraph) the asterisk is not an operator in the context where it >> is being described, it is a node test. The asterisk that represents an >> operator in XPath has nothing to do with this text which may lead to >> confusion. >> * (second paragraph) term "augmenting objects" should probably be "augmented >> objects". I may have misunderstood the wildcards section. It was not trying to solve the "module containment breach" issue I mentioned, which could also be considered as a "wildcard". That is why that sentence was bothering me. You could combine the two in the same section. OLD: It is possible to construct XPath expressions that will evaluate differently when combined with several modules within a server implementation, then when evaluated within the single module. This is due to augmenting nodes from other modules. Wildcard expansion is done within a server against all the nodes from all namespaces, so it is possible for a 'must' or 'when' expression that uses the '*' operator will always evaluate to false if processed within a single YANG module. In such cases, the 'description' statement SHOULD clarify that augmenting objects are expected to match the wildcard expansion. when /foo/services/*/active { description "No services directly defined in this module. Matches objects that have augmented the services container."; } NEW: It is possible to construct XPath expressions that will evaluate differently when combined with several modules within a server implementation, then when evaluated within the single module. This is due to the fact that expression evaluation is done within a server against all the nodes from all namespaces. An expression such as //*[local-name() = 'services']//*[local-name() = 'active'] could unexpectedly evaluate to true when another module that happens to match the expression's location path is added to the server implementation. Such expressions SHOULD not be used. Augmentation represents a special case. If augmented objects are expected to match the wildcard expansion it is possible for a 'must' or 'when' expression that uses the '*' node test to always evaluate to false if processed within a single YANG module. In such cases, the 'description' statement SHOULD clarify the intent. when /foo/services/*/active { description "No services directly defined in this module. Matches objects that have augmented the services container."; } Jernej >> >> Jernej >> >> Dne 24.10.2014 1:30, piÅ¡e internet-drafts@ietf.org: >>> A New Internet-Draft is available from the on-line Internet-Drafts >>> directories. >>> This draft is a work item of the NETCONF Data Modeling Language Working >>> Group of the IETF. >>> >>> Title : Guidelines for Authors and Reviewers of YANG >>> Data Model Documents >>> Author : Andy Bierman >>> Filename : draft-ietf-netmod-rfc6087bis-01.txt >>> Pages : 36 >>> Date : 2014-10-23 >>> >>> Abstract: >>> This memo provides guidelines for authors and reviewers of Standards >>> Track specifications containing YANG data model modules. Applicable >>> portions may be used as a basis for reviews of other YANG data model >>> documents. Recommendations and procedures are defined, which are >>> intended to increase interoperability and usability of Network >>> Configuration Protocol (NETCONF) implementations that utilize YANG >>> data model modules. >>> >>> >>> The IETF datatracker status page for this draft is: >>> https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-netmod-rfc6087bis/ >>> >>> There's also a htmlized version available at: >>> http://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-netmod-rfc6087bis-01 >>> >>> A diff from the previous version is available at: >>> http://www.ietf.org/rfcdiff?url2=draft-ietf-netmod-rfc6087bis-01 >>> >>> >>> Please note that it may take a couple of minutes from the time of >>> submission >>> until the htmlized version and diff are available at tools.ietf.org. >>> >>> Internet-Drafts are also available by anonymous FTP at: >>> ftp://ftp.ietf.org/internet-drafts/ >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> netmod mailing list >>> netmod@ietf.org >>> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/netmod >> >> _______________________________________________ >> netmod mailing list >> netmod@ietf.org >> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/netmod From nobody Fri Nov 7 06:41:09 2014 Return-Path: X-Original-To: netmod@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: netmod@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 41A421A1BA4 for ; Fri, 7 Nov 2014 06:41:06 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.13 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.13 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, RCVD_IN_SORBS_WEB=0.77] autolearn=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id rP84cRxenShF for ; Fri, 7 Nov 2014 06:41:03 -0800 (PST) Received: from trail.lhotka.name (trail.lhotka.name [77.48.224.143]) (using TLSv1.1 with cipher AECDH-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 41E8F1A1BFF for ; Fri, 7 Nov 2014 06:41:03 -0800 (PST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by trail.lhotka.name (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9A26F54047B; Fri, 7 Nov 2014 15:41:00 +0100 (CET) Received: from trail.lhotka.name ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (trail.lhotka.name [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id mLvFs2mGu0R7; Fri, 7 Nov 2014 15:40:55 +0100 (CET) Received: from localhost (apn.sa.cz [217.66.178.112]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by trail.lhotka.name (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 7389F54003C; Fri, 7 Nov 2014 15:40:54 +0100 (CET) From: Ladislav Lhotka To: Jernej Tuljak , Andy Bierman In-Reply-To: <545C8E9D.2070100@mg-soft.com> References: <20141023233014.23083.56508.idtracker@ietfa.amsl.com> <545A23A1.20006@mg-soft.com> <545C8E9D.2070100@mg-soft.com> User-Agent: Notmuch/0.18.1 (http://notmuchmail.org) Emacs/24.4.1 (x86_64-apple-darwin13.4.0) Date: Fri, 07 Nov 2014 15:40:52 +0100 Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Archived-At: http://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/netmod/A3zBWzFoau5ClzZFuFDKtU8bYew Cc: "netmod@ietf.org" Subject: Re: [netmod] I-D Action: draft-ietf-netmod-rfc6087bis-01.txt X-BeenThere: netmod@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: NETMOD WG list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 07 Nov 2014 14:41:06 -0000 Jernej Tuljak writes: > Dne 5.11.2014 16:07, pi=C5=A1e Andy Bierman: >> Hi, >> >> Can you suggest replacement text for the specific details you do not lik= e? >> I will look into your comments on the Axes and Wildcards sections. > > See below. > >> >> Andy >> >> >> On Wed, Nov 5, 2014 at 5:18 AM, Jernej Tuljak = wrote: >>> (now replying to the proper thread) >>> >>> I see that the issues I raised regarding XPath expressions >>> (http://www.ietf.org/mail-archive/web/netmod/current/msg10172.html) hav= e now >>> made it into rfc6087bis-01 section 5.5. >>> >>> Section 5.5.1, what should a YANG compiler return for 'namespace-uri()'= and >>> 'name()' function if they are used? > > OLD: > The 'namespace-uri' and 'name' functions SHOULD NOT be used. > Expanded names in XPath are different than YANG. A specific > canonical representation of a YANG expanded name does not exist. > > NEW: > The 'namespace-uri' and 'name' functions SHOULD NOT be used. > Expanded names in XPath are different than YANG. A specific > canonical representation of a YANG expanded name does not exist. > The YANG compiler SHOULD return an empty string for both of > these functions. While I agree these functions (and perhaps local-name(), too) should not be used, I don't understand the reasoning. Why are expanded names different? The context for XPath evaluation has to be an XML document.=20 > >>> >>> I still disagree with Section 5.5.2 Axes, where it describes usage >>> guidelines of preceding-sibling and following-sibling. These may be used >>> without issue if document order does not affect the outcome of the >>> expression, the same way preceding and following can be. See Ladislav's >>> suggestion for a possible solution >>> (http://www.ietf.org/mail-archive/web/netmod/current/msg10191.html). > > OLD: > The 'preceding', and 'following' axes SHOULD NOT be used. These > constructs rely on XML document order within a NETCONF server > configuration database, which may not be supported consistently or > produce reliable results across implementations. Predicate > expressions based on static node properties (e.g., element name or > value, 'ancestor' or 'descendant' axes) SHOULD be used instead. The > 'preceding' and 'following' axes MAY be used if document order is not > relevant to the outcome of the expression (e.g., check for global > uniqueness of a parameter value). > > The 'preceding-sibling' and 'following-sibling' axes SHOULD NOT used. > > A server is only required to maintain the relative XML document order > of all instances of a particular user-ordered list or leaf-list. The > 'preceding-sibling' and 'following-sibling' axes MAY be used if they > are evaluated in a context where the context node is a user-ordered > 'list' or 'leaf-list'. > > NEW: > The 'preceding', 'following', 'preceding-sibling' and=20 > 'following-sibling' > axes SHOULD NOT be used. These constructs rely on XML document > order within a NETCONF server configuration database, which may > not be supported consistently or produce reliable results across > implementations. Predicate expressions based on static node > properties (e.g., element name or value, 'ancestor' or 'descendant' > axes) SHOULD be used instead. The 'preceding', 'following', > 'preceding-sibling' and 'following-sibling' axes MAY be used if > document order is not relevant to the outcome of the expression > (e.g., check for global uniqueness of a parameter value). I would start with the last sentence and then just add "Otherwise these axes SHOULD NOT be used." > > A server is only required to maintain the relative XML document order > of all instances of a particular user-ordered list or leaf-list. The > 'preceding-sibling' and 'following-sibling' axes MAY be used if they = are > evaluated in a context where the context node is a user-ordered 'list' > or 'leaf-list'. > >>> >>> Section 5.5.4. Wildcards: >>> * (first paragraph) the last sentence ("This is due to augmenting nodes= from >>> other modules."), seems redundant or wrong. Augmentation is not the only >>> thing that affects XPath expressions that use wildcards. Simply impleme= nting >>> another module that defines a data tree is enough. >>> * (second paragraph) the asterisk is not an operator in the context whe= re it >>> is being described, it is a node test. The asterisk that represents an >>> operator in XPath has nothing to do with this text which may lead to >>> confusion. >>> * (second paragraph) term "augmenting objects" should probably be "augm= ented >>> objects". > > I may have misunderstood the wildcards section. It was not trying to=20 > solve the "module containment breach" issue I mentioned, which could=20 > also be considered as a "wildcard". That is why that sentence was=20 > bothering me. You could combine the two in the same section. > > > OLD: > It is possible to construct XPath expressions that will evaluate > differently when combined with several modules within a server > implementation, then when evaluated within the single module. This > is due to augmenting nodes from other modules. > > Wildcard expansion is done within a server against all the nodes from > all namespaces, so it is possible for a 'must' or 'when' expression > that uses the '*' operator will always evaluate to false if processed > within a single YANG module. In such cases, the 'description' > statement SHOULD clarify that augmenting objects are expected to > match the wildcard expansion. > > when /foo/services/*/active { > description > "No services directly defined in this module. > Matches objects that have augmented the services container."; > } > > NEW: > It is possible to construct XPath expressions that will evaluate > differently when combined with several modules within a server > implementation, then when evaluated within the single module. This > is due to the fact that expression evaluation is done within a server > against all the nodes from all namespaces. An expression such as > > //*[local-name() =3D 'services']//*[local-name() =3D 'active'] > > could unexpectedly evaluate to true when another module that > happens to match the expression's location path is added to the > server implementation. Such expressions SHOULD not be used. > > Augmentation represents a special case. If augmented objects are > expected to match the wildcard expansion it is possible for a 'must' > or 'when' expression that uses the '*' node test to always evaluate > to false if processed within a single YANG module. In such cases, > the 'description' statement SHOULD clarify the intent. > > when /foo/services/*/active { > description > "No services directly defined in this module. > Matches objects that have augmented the services container."; > } +1 Lada > > Jernej > >>> >>> Jernej >>> >>> Dne 24.10.2014 1:30, pi=C5=A1e internet-drafts@ietf.org: >>>> A New Internet-Draft is available from the on-line Internet-Drafts >>>> directories. >>>> This draft is a work item of the NETCONF Data Modeling Language Wor= king >>>> Group of the IETF. >>>> >>>> Title : Guidelines for Authors and Reviewers of YA= NG >>>> Data Model Documents >>>> Author : Andy Bierman >>>> Filename : draft-ietf-netmod-rfc6087bis-01.txt >>>> Pages : 36 >>>> Date : 2014-10-23 >>>> >>>> Abstract: >>>> This memo provides guidelines for authors and reviewers of Standa= rds >>>> Track specifications containing YANG data model modules. Applica= ble >>>> portions may be used as a basis for reviews of other YANG data mo= del >>>> documents. Recommendations and procedures are defined, which are >>>> intended to increase interoperability and usability of Network >>>> Configuration Protocol (NETCONF) implementations that utilize YANG >>>> data model modules. >>>> >>>> >>>> The IETF datatracker status page for this draft is: >>>> https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-netmod-rfc6087bis/ >>>> >>>> There's also a htmlized version available at: >>>> http://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-netmod-rfc6087bis-01 >>>> >>>> A diff from the previous version is available at: >>>> http://www.ietf.org/rfcdiff?url2=3Ddraft-ietf-netmod-rfc6087bis-01 >>>> >>>> >>>> Please note that it may take a couple of minutes from the time of >>>> submission >>>> until the htmlized version and diff are available at tools.ietf.org. >>>> >>>> Internet-Drafts are also available by anonymous FTP at: >>>> ftp://ftp.ietf.org/internet-drafts/ >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> netmod mailing list >>>> netmod@ietf.org >>>> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/netmod >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> netmod mailing list >>> netmod@ietf.org >>> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/netmod > > _______________________________________________ > netmod mailing list > netmod@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/netmod --=20 Ladislav Lhotka, CZ.NIC Labs PGP Key ID: E74E8C0C From nobody Fri Nov 7 07:43:01 2014 Return-Path: X-Original-To: netmod@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: netmod@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 155A81A8776 for ; Fri, 7 Nov 2014 07:42:59 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.979 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.979 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, FM_FORGED_GMAIL=0.622, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW=-0.7, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id hbtgba_PWL2S for ; Fri, 7 Nov 2014 07:42:56 -0800 (PST) Received: from mail-qg0-f52.google.com (mail-qg0-f52.google.com [209.85.192.52]) (using TLSv1 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-RC4-SHA (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id E8DA91A8770 for ; Fri, 7 Nov 2014 07:42:55 -0800 (PST) Received: by mail-qg0-f52.google.com with SMTP id a108so2573803qge.11 for ; Fri, 07 Nov 2014 07:42:55 -0800 (PST) X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20130820; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:in-reply-to:references:date :message-id:subject:from:to:cc:content-type :content-transfer-encoding; bh=DOZrvuL+MiBzcUmeVWwsLRMRB+xX0urm2hjB6JcqtiI=; b=P2zEJ1ATyejxQEauoPrvabl6Zbgs73/qnXsJvbnCNr8LfVl0IqitgBrausd2mQZesT kcPIVe8leZye3d8KACUE15ZxN2CXSMBnkbIoaHdMhh8TZHEhCFAOtbh++YmrHD+dBr3G omugdUg1GfHqpfEoLSLhIfL/m8OhJ31UnyT/9v4ptTPW1wWSc+x5IMC5sHLGwqs5cARI r9pXH8IYwB9YxEixW5aH6VPiAzlbtnR7cScSLUd/K5JOuKfY7jWKtYB3iJbqiM0N+ISj faVmb1C6xqUNnAfiAFfzGdCSD1N1+hUCrktIeZmEcxQW3gLP0BpdSV1Tlmli2IG7iGko FFAQ== X-Gm-Message-State: ALoCoQlgMbzLgz3Kh7+6SzGs2WrKbg7VM2+BN2Ta3srgnBYs2+EEuUFXNIGUZNqY7G2s/Mcgkibt MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Received: by 10.140.92.148 with SMTP id b20mr17448787qge.35.1415374975164; Fri, 07 Nov 2014 07:42:55 -0800 (PST) Received: by 10.140.37.52 with HTTP; Fri, 7 Nov 2014 07:42:55 -0800 (PST) In-Reply-To: References: <20141023233014.23083.56508.idtracker@ietfa.amsl.com> <545A23A1.20006@mg-soft.com> <545C8E9D.2070100@mg-soft.com> Date: Fri, 7 Nov 2014 07:42:55 -0800 Message-ID: From: Andy Bierman To: Ladislav Lhotka Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Archived-At: http://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/netmod/JeeFCrk3BOmxrE0XMGss-T2nLK0 Cc: "netmod@ietf.org" Subject: Re: [netmod] I-D Action: draft-ietf-netmod-rfc6087bis-01.txt X-BeenThere: netmod@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: NETMOD WG list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 07 Nov 2014 15:42:59 -0000 On Fri, Nov 7, 2014 at 6:40 AM, Ladislav Lhotka wrote: > Jernej Tuljak writes: > >> Dne 5.11.2014 16:07, pi=C5=A1e Andy Bierman: >>> Hi, >>> >>> Can you suggest replacement text for the specific details you do not li= ke? >>> I will look into your comments on the Axes and Wildcards sections. >> >> See below. >> >>> >>> Andy >>> >>> >>> On Wed, Nov 5, 2014 at 5:18 AM, Jernej Tuljak wrote: >>>> (now replying to the proper thread) >>>> >>>> I see that the issues I raised regarding XPath expressions >>>> (http://www.ietf.org/mail-archive/web/netmod/current/msg10172.html) ha= ve now >>>> made it into rfc6087bis-01 section 5.5. >>>> >>>> Section 5.5.1, what should a YANG compiler return for 'namespace-uri()= ' and >>>> 'name()' function if they are used? >> >> OLD: >> The 'namespace-uri' and 'name' functions SHOULD NOT be used. >> Expanded names in XPath are different than YANG. A specific >> canonical representation of a YANG expanded name does not exist. >> >> NEW: >> The 'namespace-uri' and 'name' functions SHOULD NOT be used. >> Expanded names in XPath are different than YANG. A specific >> canonical representation of a YANG expanded name does not exist. >> The YANG compiler SHOULD return an empty string for both of >> these functions. > > While I agree these functions (and perhaps local-name(), too) should not > be used, I don't understand the reasoning. Why are expanded names > different? The context for XPath evaluation has to be an XML document. > I think you are right. Since the namespace-stmt is mapped to the XML expanded name part when parsing XML, the YANG compiler can just return the namespace-stmt value for the current module. >> >>>> >>>> I still disagree with Section 5.5.2 Axes, where it describes usage >>>> guidelines of preceding-sibling and following-sibling. These may be us= ed >>>> without issue if document order does not affect the outcome of the >>>> expression, the same way preceding and following can be. See Ladislav'= s >>>> suggestion for a possible solution >>>> (http://www.ietf.org/mail-archive/web/netmod/current/msg10191.html). >> >> OLD: >> The 'preceding', and 'following' axes SHOULD NOT be used. These >> constructs rely on XML document order within a NETCONF server >> configuration database, which may not be supported consistently or >> produce reliable results across implementations. Predicate >> expressions based on static node properties (e.g., element name or >> value, 'ancestor' or 'descendant' axes) SHOULD be used instead. The >> 'preceding' and 'following' axes MAY be used if document order is no= t >> relevant to the outcome of the expression (e.g., check for global >> uniqueness of a parameter value). >> >> The 'preceding-sibling' and 'following-sibling' axes SHOULD NOT used= . >> >> A server is only required to maintain the relative XML document orde= r >> of all instances of a particular user-ordered list or leaf-list. The >> 'preceding-sibling' and 'following-sibling' axes MAY be used if they >> are evaluated in a context where the context node is a user-ordered >> 'list' or 'leaf-list'. >> >> NEW: >> The 'preceding', 'following', 'preceding-sibling' and >> 'following-sibling' >> axes SHOULD NOT be used. These constructs rely on XML document >> order within a NETCONF server configuration database, which may >> not be supported consistently or produce reliable results across >> implementations. Predicate expressions based on static node >> properties (e.g., element name or value, 'ancestor' or 'descendant' >> axes) SHOULD be used instead. The 'preceding', 'following', >> 'preceding-sibling' and 'following-sibling' axes MAY be used if >> document order is not relevant to the outcome of the expression >> (e.g., check for global uniqueness of a parameter value). > > I would start with the last sentence and then just add "Otherwise these > axes SHOULD NOT be used." Can you expand the text you want? I don't know which text you are patching. > >> >> A server is only required to maintain the relative XML document orde= r >> of all instances of a particular user-ordered list or leaf-list. The >> 'preceding-sibling' and 'following-sibling' axes MAY be used if they= are >> evaluated in a context where the context node is a user-ordered 'lis= t' >> or 'leaf-list'. >> >>>> >>>> Section 5.5.4. Wildcards: >>>> * (first paragraph) the last sentence ("This is due to augmenting node= s from >>>> other modules."), seems redundant or wrong. Augmentation is not the on= ly >>>> thing that affects XPath expressions that use wildcards. Simply implem= enting >>>> another module that defines a data tree is enough. >>>> * (second paragraph) the asterisk is not an operator in the context wh= ere it >>>> is being described, it is a node test. The asterisk that represents an >>>> operator in XPath has nothing to do with this text which may lead to >>>> confusion. >>>> * (second paragraph) term "augmenting objects" should probably be "aug= mented >>>> objects". >> >> I may have misunderstood the wildcards section. It was not trying to >> solve the "module containment breach" issue I mentioned, which could >> also be considered as a "wildcard". That is why that sentence was >> bothering me. You could combine the two in the same section. >> >> >> OLD: >> It is possible to construct XPath expressions that will evaluate >> differently when combined with several modules within a server >> implementation, then when evaluated within the single module. This >> is due to augmenting nodes from other modules. >> >> Wildcard expansion is done within a server against all the nodes fro= m >> all namespaces, so it is possible for a 'must' or 'when' expression >> that uses the '*' operator will always evaluate to false if processe= d >> within a single YANG module. In such cases, the 'description' >> statement SHOULD clarify that augmenting objects are expected to >> match the wildcard expansion. >> >> when /foo/services/*/active { >> description >> "No services directly defined in this module. >> Matches objects that have augmented the services container."= ; >> } >> >> NEW: >> It is possible to construct XPath expressions that will evaluate >> differently when combined with several modules within a server >> implementation, then when evaluated within the single module. This >> is due to the fact that expression evaluation is done within a serve= r >> against all the nodes from all namespaces. An expression such as >> >> //*[local-name() =3D 'services']//*[local-name() =3D 'active'] >> >> could unexpectedly evaluate to true when another module that >> happens to match the expression's location path is added to the >> server implementation. Such expressions SHOULD not be used. >> >> Augmentation represents a special case. If augmented objects are >> expected to match the wildcard expansion it is possible for a 'must' >> or 'when' expression that uses the '*' node test to always evaluate >> to false if processed within a single YANG module. In such cases, >> the 'description' statement SHOULD clarify the intent. >> >> when /foo/services/*/active { >> description >> "No services directly defined in this module. >> Matches objects that have augmented the services container."= ; >> } > > +1 > +2 > Lada > >> >> Jernej >> >>>> >>>> Jernej Andy >>>> >>>> Dne 24.10.2014 1:30, pi=C5=A1e internet-drafts@ietf.org: >>>>> A New Internet-Draft is available from the on-line Internet-Drafts >>>>> directories. >>>>> This draft is a work item of the NETCONF Data Modeling Language Wo= rking >>>>> Group of the IETF. >>>>> >>>>> Title : Guidelines for Authors and Reviewers of Y= ANG >>>>> Data Model Documents >>>>> Author : Andy Bierman >>>>> Filename : draft-ietf-netmod-rfc6087bis-01.txt >>>>> Pages : 36 >>>>> Date : 2014-10-23 >>>>> >>>>> Abstract: >>>>> This memo provides guidelines for authors and reviewers of Stand= ards >>>>> Track specifications containing YANG data model modules. Applic= able >>>>> portions may be used as a basis for reviews of other YANG data m= odel >>>>> documents. Recommendations and procedures are defined, which ar= e >>>>> intended to increase interoperability and usability of Network >>>>> Configuration Protocol (NETCONF) implementations that utilize YA= NG >>>>> data model modules. >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> The IETF datatracker status page for this draft is: >>>>> https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-netmod-rfc6087bis/ >>>>> >>>>> There's also a htmlized version available at: >>>>> http://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-netmod-rfc6087bis-01 >>>>> >>>>> A diff from the previous version is available at: >>>>> http://www.ietf.org/rfcdiff?url2=3Ddraft-ietf-netmod-rfc6087bis-01 >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> Please note that it may take a couple of minutes from the time of >>>>> submission >>>>> until the htmlized version and diff are available at tools.ietf.org. >>>>> >>>>> Internet-Drafts are also available by anonymous FTP at: >>>>> ftp://ftp.ietf.org/internet-drafts/ >>>>> >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> netmod mailing list >>>>> netmod@ietf.org >>>>> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/netmod >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> netmod mailing list >>>> netmod@ietf.org >>>> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/netmod >> >> _______________________________________________ >> netmod mailing list >> netmod@ietf.org >> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/netmod > > -- > Ladislav Lhotka, CZ.NIC Labs > PGP Key ID: E74E8C0C From nobody Fri Nov 7 08:50:35 2014 Return-Path: X-Original-To: netmod@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: netmod@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 437541A1F73 for ; Fri, 7 Nov 2014 08:50:33 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.495 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.495 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, RP_MATCHES_RCVD=-0.594, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id CrLTNMDMdd2a for ; Fri, 7 Nov 2014 08:50:31 -0800 (PST) Received: from mail.tail-f.com (mail.tail-f.com [83.241.162.140]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4BFBB1A8790 for ; Fri, 7 Nov 2014 08:50:31 -0800 (PST) Received: from localhost (unknown [193.13.112.215]) by mail.tail-f.com (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 14B021280A81; Fri, 7 Nov 2014 17:50:30 +0100 (CET) Date: Fri, 07 Nov 2014 17:50:29 +0100 (CET) Message-Id: <20141107.175029.05408351.mbj@tail-f.com> To: andy@yumaworks.com From: Martin Bjorklund In-Reply-To: References: <545C8E9D.2070100@mg-soft.com> X-Mailer: Mew version 6.5 on Emacs 24.3 / Mule 6.0 (HANACHIRUSATO) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: Text/Plain; charset=iso-8859-15 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Archived-At: http://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/netmod/a2aRN6Lz4Yjnx3ryH7icbHob7bo Cc: netmod@ietf.org Subject: Re: [netmod] I-D Action: draft-ietf-netmod-rfc6087bis-01.txt X-BeenThere: netmod@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: NETMOD WG list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 07 Nov 2014 16:50:33 -0000 Andy Bierman wrote: > On Fri, Nov 7, 2014 at 6:40 AM, Ladislav Lhotka wrote= : > > Jernej Tuljak writes: > > > >> Dne 5.11.2014 16:07, pi=A8e Andy Bierman: > >>> Hi, > >>> > >>> Can you suggest replacement text for the specific details you do = not like? > >>> I will look into your comments on the Axes and Wildcards sections= .= > >> > >> See below. > >> > >>> > >>> Andy > >>> > >>> > >>> On Wed, Nov 5, 2014 at 5:18 AM, Jernej Tuljak > >>> wrote: > >>>> (now replying to the proper thread) > >>>> > >>>> I see that the issues I raised regarding XPath expressions > >>>> (http://www.ietf.org/mail-archive/web/netmod/current/msg10172.ht= ml) have > >>>> now > >>>> made it into rfc6087bis-01 section 5.5. > >>>> > >>>> Section 5.5.1, what should a YANG compiler return for 'namespace= -uri()' > >>>> and > >>>> 'name()' function if they are used? > >> > >> OLD: > >> The 'namespace-uri' and 'name' functions SHOULD NOT be used. > >> Expanded names in XPath are different than YANG. A specific > >> canonical representation of a YANG expanded name does not exis= t. > >> > >> NEW: > >> The 'namespace-uri' and 'name' functions SHOULD NOT be used. > >> Expanded names in XPath are different than YANG. A specific > >> canonical representation of a YANG expanded name does not exis= t. > >> The YANG compiler SHOULD return an empty string for both of > >> these functions. > > > > While I agree these functions (and perhaps local-name(), too) shoul= d not > > be used, I don't understand the reasoning. Why are expanded names > > different? The context for XPath evaluation has to be an XML docume= nt. > > > = > I think you are right. Since the namespace-stmt is mapped to the > XML expanded name part when parsing XML, the YANG compiler > can just return the namespace-stmt value for the current module. +1 This is what our implementation does. But the 'name' is more problematic. When the input is an XML document, it returns a prefixed name if there is a prefix for the namespace in teh XML source, or unprefixed if no such prefix is declared. It is pretty clear that it SHOULD NOT be used... or at least the result is implementation dependent. /martin From nobody Fri Nov 7 08:59:03 2014 Return-Path: X-Original-To: netmod@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: netmod@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0EC2C1AD389 for ; Fri, 7 Nov 2014 08:59:02 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.979 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.979 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, FM_FORGED_GMAIL=0.622, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW=-0.7, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id vrIFSzDagYcc for ; Fri, 7 Nov 2014 08:59:00 -0800 (PST) Received: from mail-qa0-f51.google.com (mail-qa0-f51.google.com [209.85.216.51]) (using TLSv1 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-RC4-SHA (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 142F01AD387 for ; Fri, 7 Nov 2014 08:59:00 -0800 (PST) Received: by mail-qa0-f51.google.com with SMTP id f12so2507782qad.38 for ; Fri, 07 Nov 2014 08:58:59 -0800 (PST) X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20130820; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:in-reply-to:references:date :message-id:subject:from:to:cc:content-type :content-transfer-encoding; bh=yFWlyK2dbZB6C00m+DVyXHL89+fK0kNAJCOO7gkBCKA=; b=Pm/0i6WrUKMNnzn2sB2bHwh/UzUqRSPOeChu0iNwtuNKg/SX0mBKM1KDOZFdIHHwc6 VkTyFOm29+tJ4lFiS5F0BcK3I+y4pf1RfrLF167jFzzdpZvBpuQmKkmUgXgRUSESBV1J K7Fpb4iiF/jJTpH2G81AU8zK5q/I/IynhG44y8AJbUMY3j+lH+tmTRKzT5dDGjWbCkHL SvfP6/uSHWma1QU5AEKLwx5oA5j5wvC6sqS92hjer438+5JsqfTjAS9IV9B8skBTKgAw HCwXnBA9xIfkbnhoi9CfiqYhJwQb30kFieUjt6C8siOWqIcTjJxeBYnyWGTjTTaD4lRB QFaA== X-Gm-Message-State: ALoCoQmGe7L0Re++NbTeVi+Lo0Xn5Rp7j7yCGG/+2HxWEAaiSss2WFOoMwI6h45xwWqyu2BrRLIu MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Received: by 10.224.134.198 with SMTP id k6mr19453786qat.88.1415379539241; Fri, 07 Nov 2014 08:58:59 -0800 (PST) Received: by 10.140.37.52 with HTTP; Fri, 7 Nov 2014 08:58:59 -0800 (PST) In-Reply-To: <20141107.175029.05408351.mbj@tail-f.com> References: <545C8E9D.2070100@mg-soft.com> <20141107.175029.05408351.mbj@tail-f.com> Date: Fri, 7 Nov 2014 08:58:59 -0800 Message-ID: From: Andy Bierman To: Martin Bjorklund Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Archived-At: http://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/netmod/G2tgJeFafba4Tg8Slv1Iv8bI1dU Cc: "netmod@ietf.org" Subject: Re: [netmod] I-D Action: draft-ietf-netmod-rfc6087bis-01.txt X-BeenThere: netmod@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: NETMOD WG list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 07 Nov 2014 16:59:02 -0000 On Fri, Nov 7, 2014 at 8:50 AM, Martin Bjorklund wrote: > Andy Bierman wrote: >> On Fri, Nov 7, 2014 at 6:40 AM, Ladislav Lhotka wrote: >> > Jernej Tuljak writes: >> > >> >> Dne 5.11.2014 16:07, pi=C5=A1e Andy Bierman: >> >>> Hi, >> >>> >> >>> Can you suggest replacement text for the specific details you do not= like? >> >>> I will look into your comments on the Axes and Wildcards sections. >> >> >> >> See below. >> >> >> >>> >> >>> Andy >> >>> >> >>> >> >>> On Wed, Nov 5, 2014 at 5:18 AM, Jernej Tuljak >> >>> wrote: >> >>>> (now replying to the proper thread) >> >>>> >> >>>> I see that the issues I raised regarding XPath expressions >> >>>> (http://www.ietf.org/mail-archive/web/netmod/current/msg10172.html)= have >> >>>> now >> >>>> made it into rfc6087bis-01 section 5.5. >> >>>> >> >>>> Section 5.5.1, what should a YANG compiler return for 'namespace-ur= i()' >> >>>> and >> >>>> 'name()' function if they are used? >> >> >> >> OLD: >> >> The 'namespace-uri' and 'name' functions SHOULD NOT be used. >> >> Expanded names in XPath are different than YANG. A specific >> >> canonical representation of a YANG expanded name does not exist. >> >> >> >> NEW: >> >> The 'namespace-uri' and 'name' functions SHOULD NOT be used. >> >> Expanded names in XPath are different than YANG. A specific >> >> canonical representation of a YANG expanded name does not exist. >> >> The YANG compiler SHOULD return an empty string for both of >> >> these functions. >> > >> > While I agree these functions (and perhaps local-name(), too) should n= ot >> > be used, I don't understand the reasoning. Why are expanded names >> > different? The context for XPath evaluation has to be an XML document. >> > >> >> I think you are right. Since the namespace-stmt is mapped to the >> XML expanded name part when parsing XML, the YANG compiler >> can just return the namespace-stmt value for the current module. > > +1 This is what our implementation does. I had to look at my code to make sure, since I wrote it 6 years ago, but we do the same thing. > > But the 'name' is more problematic. When the input is an XML > document, it returns a prefixed name if there is a prefix for the > namespace in teh XML source, or unprefixed if no such prefix is > declared. It is pretty clear that it SHOULD NOT be used... or at > least the result is implementation dependent. > So the restriction should be changed to be just for "name". > > /martin Andy From nobody Fri Nov 7 09:02:44 2014 Return-Path: X-Original-To: netmod@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: netmod@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id EA3871A8834 for ; Fri, 7 Nov 2014 09:02:37 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.9 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.9 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9] autolearn=ham Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 97Zx4fl3FU5y for ; Fri, 7 Nov 2014 09:02:33 -0800 (PST) Received: from trail.lhotka.name (trail.lhotka.name [77.48.224.143]) (using TLSv1.1 with cipher AECDH-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 2FCEC1A0461 for ; Fri, 7 Nov 2014 09:02:33 -0800 (PST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by trail.lhotka.name (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4E17154047B; Fri, 7 Nov 2014 18:02:31 +0100 (CET) Received: from trail.lhotka.name ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (trail.lhotka.name [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id dI3o5DkSi5Cq; Fri, 7 Nov 2014 18:02:23 +0100 (CET) Received: from localhost (unknown [213.195.200.174]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by trail.lhotka.name (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 991925402DF; Fri, 7 Nov 2014 18:02:22 +0100 (CET) From: Ladislav Lhotka To: Andy Bierman In-Reply-To: References: <20141023233014.23083.56508.idtracker@ietfa.amsl.com> <545A23A1.20006@mg-soft.com> <545C8E9D.2070100@mg-soft.com> User-Agent: Notmuch/0.18.1 (http://notmuchmail.org) Emacs/24.4.1 (x86_64-apple-darwin13.4.0) Date: Fri, 07 Nov 2014 18:02:20 +0100 Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Archived-At: http://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/netmod/GqP0i5LO9LcX5qz4cI99M0WFuyw Cc: "netmod@ietf.org" Subject: Re: [netmod] I-D Action: draft-ietf-netmod-rfc6087bis-01.txt X-BeenThere: netmod@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: NETMOD WG list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 07 Nov 2014 17:02:38 -0000 Andy Bierman writes: > On Fri, Nov 7, 2014 at 6:40 AM, Ladislav Lhotka wrote: >> Jernej Tuljak writes: >> >>> Dne 5.11.2014 16:07, pi=C5=A1e Andy Bierman: >>>> Hi, >>>> >>>> Can you suggest replacement text for the specific details you do not l= ike? >>>> I will look into your comments on the Axes and Wildcards sections. >>> >>> See below. >>> >>>> >>>> Andy >>>> >>>> >>>> On Wed, Nov 5, 2014 at 5:18 AM, Jernej Tuljak wrote: >>>>> (now replying to the proper thread) >>>>> >>>>> I see that the issues I raised regarding XPath expressions >>>>> (http://www.ietf.org/mail-archive/web/netmod/current/msg10172.html) h= ave now >>>>> made it into rfc6087bis-01 section 5.5. >>>>> >>>>> Section 5.5.1, what should a YANG compiler return for 'namespace-uri(= )' and >>>>> 'name()' function if they are used? >>> >>> OLD: >>> The 'namespace-uri' and 'name' functions SHOULD NOT be used. >>> Expanded names in XPath are different than YANG. A specific >>> canonical representation of a YANG expanded name does not exist. >>> >>> NEW: >>> The 'namespace-uri' and 'name' functions SHOULD NOT be used. >>> Expanded names in XPath are different than YANG. A specific >>> canonical representation of a YANG expanded name does not exist. >>> The YANG compiler SHOULD return an empty string for both of >>> these functions. >> >> While I agree these functions (and perhaps local-name(), too) should not >> be used, I don't understand the reasoning. Why are expanded names >> different? The context for XPath evaluation has to be an XML document. >> > > I think you are right. Since the namespace-stmt is mapped to the > XML expanded name part when parsing XML, the YANG compiler > can just return the namespace-stmt value for the current module. Yup. > > >>> >>>>> >>>>> I still disagree with Section 5.5.2 Axes, where it describes usage >>>>> guidelines of preceding-sibling and following-sibling. These may be u= sed >>>>> without issue if document order does not affect the outcome of the >>>>> expression, the same way preceding and following can be. See Ladislav= 's >>>>> suggestion for a possible solution >>>>> (http://www.ietf.org/mail-archive/web/netmod/current/msg10191.html). >>> >>> OLD: >>> The 'preceding', and 'following' axes SHOULD NOT be used. These >>> constructs rely on XML document order within a NETCONF server >>> configuration database, which may not be supported consistently or >>> produce reliable results across implementations. Predicate >>> expressions based on static node properties (e.g., element name or >>> value, 'ancestor' or 'descendant' axes) SHOULD be used instead. The >>> 'preceding' and 'following' axes MAY be used if document order is n= ot >>> relevant to the outcome of the expression (e.g., check for global >>> uniqueness of a parameter value). >>> >>> The 'preceding-sibling' and 'following-sibling' axes SHOULD NOT use= d. >>> >>> A server is only required to maintain the relative XML document ord= er >>> of all instances of a particular user-ordered list or leaf-list. The >>> 'preceding-sibling' and 'following-sibling' axes MAY be used if they >>> are evaluated in a context where the context node is a user-ordered >>> 'list' or 'leaf-list'. >>> >>> NEW: >>> The 'preceding', 'following', 'preceding-sibling' and >>> 'following-sibling' >>> axes SHOULD NOT be used. These constructs rely on XML document >>> order within a NETCONF server configuration database, which may >>> not be supported consistently or produce reliable results across >>> implementations. Predicate expressions based on static node >>> properties (e.g., element name or value, 'ancestor' or 'descendant' >>> axes) SHOULD be used instead. The 'preceding', 'following', >>> 'preceding-sibling' and 'following-sibling' axes MAY be used if >>> document order is not relevant to the outcome of the expression >>> (e.g., check for global uniqueness of a parameter value). >> >> I would start with the last sentence and then just add "Otherwise these >> axes SHOULD NOT be used." > > Can you expand the text you want? > I don't know which text you are patching. > NEW: The 'preceding', 'following', 'preceding-sibling' and 'following-sibling' axes MAY be used if document order is not relevant to the outcome of the expression (e.g., check for global uniqueness of a parameter value). Otherwise these axes SHOULD NOT be used. A server is only required to maintain the relative XML document order of all instances of a particular user-ordered list or leaf-list. The 'preceding-sibling' and 'following-sibling' axes MAY be used if they are evaluated in a context where the context node is a user-ordered 'list' or 'leaf-list'. I think the sentence about what SHOULD be used instead of those axes is somewhat unclear and in fact unnecessary. Lada --=20 Ladislav Lhotka, CZ.NIC Labs PGP Key ID: E74E8C0C From nobody Fri Nov 7 09:29:20 2014 Return-Path: X-Original-To: netmod@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: netmod@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7A7241A87B9 for ; Fri, 7 Nov 2014 09:29:19 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.9 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.9 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9] autolearn=ham Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id jyHkjePAJNXE for ; Fri, 7 Nov 2014 09:29:18 -0800 (PST) Received: from trail.lhotka.name (trail.lhotka.name [77.48.224.143]) (using TLSv1.1 with cipher AECDH-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 0A38E1A0105 for ; Fri, 7 Nov 2014 09:29:17 -0800 (PST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by trail.lhotka.name (Postfix) with ESMTP id 04D1154047B; Fri, 7 Nov 2014 18:29:16 +0100 (CET) Received: from trail.lhotka.name ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (trail.lhotka.name [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id PlJJVX5pqBUP; Fri, 7 Nov 2014 18:28:52 +0100 (CET) Received: from localhost (unknown [213.195.200.174]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by trail.lhotka.name (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 77CEC54003C; Fri, 7 Nov 2014 18:28:51 +0100 (CET) From: Ladislav Lhotka To: Martin Bjorklund , andy@yumaworks.com In-Reply-To: <20141107.175029.05408351.mbj@tail-f.com> References: <545C8E9D.2070100@mg-soft.com> <20141107.175029.05408351.mbj@tail-f.com> User-Agent: Notmuch/0.18.1 (http://notmuchmail.org) Emacs/24.4.1 (x86_64-apple-darwin13.4.0) Date: Fri, 07 Nov 2014 18:28:50 +0100 Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Archived-At: http://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/netmod/kKeWgDxSCT7YGiR6tH6d-107lbY Cc: netmod@ietf.org Subject: Re: [netmod] I-D Action: draft-ietf-netmod-rfc6087bis-01.txt X-BeenThere: netmod@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: NETMOD WG list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 07 Nov 2014 17:29:19 -0000 Martin Bjorklund writes: > Andy Bierman wrote: >> On Fri, Nov 7, 2014 at 6:40 AM, Ladislav Lhotka wrote: >> > Jernej Tuljak writes: >> > >> >> Dne 5.11.2014 16:07, pi=C5=A1e Andy Bierman: >> >>> Hi, >> >>> >> >>> Can you suggest replacement text for the specific details you do not= like? >> >>> I will look into your comments on the Axes and Wildcards sections. >> >> >> >> See below. >> >> >> >>> >> >>> Andy >> >>> >> >>> >> >>> On Wed, Nov 5, 2014 at 5:18 AM, Jernej Tuljak >> >>> wrote: >> >>>> (now replying to the proper thread) >> >>>> >> >>>> I see that the issues I raised regarding XPath expressions >> >>>> (http://www.ietf.org/mail-archive/web/netmod/current/msg10172.html)= have >> >>>> now >> >>>> made it into rfc6087bis-01 section 5.5. >> >>>> >> >>>> Section 5.5.1, what should a YANG compiler return for 'namespace-ur= i()' >> >>>> and >> >>>> 'name()' function if they are used? >> >> >> >> OLD: >> >> The 'namespace-uri' and 'name' functions SHOULD NOT be used. >> >> Expanded names in XPath are different than YANG. A specific >> >> canonical representation of a YANG expanded name does not exist. >> >> >> >> NEW: >> >> The 'namespace-uri' and 'name' functions SHOULD NOT be used. >> >> Expanded names in XPath are different than YANG. A specific >> >> canonical representation of a YANG expanded name does not exist. >> >> The YANG compiler SHOULD return an empty string for both of >> >> these functions. >> > >> > While I agree these functions (and perhaps local-name(), too) should n= ot >> > be used, I don't understand the reasoning. Why are expanded names >> > different? The context for XPath evaluation has to be an XML document. >> > >>=20 >> I think you are right. Since the namespace-stmt is mapped to the >> XML expanded name part when parsing XML, the YANG compiler >> can just return the namespace-stmt value for the current module. > > +1 This is what our implementation does. > > But the 'name' is more problematic. When the input is an XML > document, it returns a prefixed name if there is a prefix for the > namespace in teh XML source, or unprefixed if no such prefix is > declared. It is pretty clear that it SHOULD NOT be used... or at > least the result is implementation dependent. Or the prefix could always be the argument of the corresponding "prefix" statement (by definition). Lada > > > /martin --=20 Ladislav Lhotka, CZ.NIC Labs PGP Key ID: E74E8C0C From nobody Fri Nov 7 10:55:40 2014 Return-Path: X-Original-To: netmod@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: netmod@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 46FFF1A8919 for ; Fri, 7 Nov 2014 10:55:39 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.902 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.902 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, SPF_HELO_PASS=-0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 79LQ-O4UHhYR for ; Fri, 7 Nov 2014 10:55:38 -0800 (PST) Received: from na01-bn1-obe.outbound.protection.outlook.com (mail-bn1on0713.outbound.protection.outlook.com [IPv6:2a01:111:f400:fc10::713]) (using TLSv1 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id D67361A8910 for ; Fri, 7 Nov 2014 10:55:37 -0800 (PST) Received: from CO1PR05MB458.namprd05.prod.outlook.com (10.141.72.140) by CO1PR05MB458.namprd05.prod.outlook.com (10.141.72.140) with Microsoft SMTP Server (TLS) id 15.1.11.14; Fri, 7 Nov 2014 18:55:15 +0000 Received: from CO1PR05MB458.namprd05.prod.outlook.com ([169.254.10.166]) by CO1PR05MB458.namprd05.prod.outlook.com ([169.254.10.166]) with mapi id 15.01.0011.000; Fri, 7 Nov 2014 18:55:15 +0000 From: Kent Watsen To: Andy Bierman , "Eric Voit (evoit)" Thread-Topic: [netmod] ietf 91 netmod agenda (revised) Thread-Index: AQHP+QW7geQllsljd0Ch1L1b1CVIqJxSatLg//+5FACAAHCygIAAApKAgAKVAoA= Date: Fri, 7 Nov 2014 18:55:14 +0000 Message-ID: References: <20141105143508.GA24535@elstar.local> In-Reply-To: Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: user-agent: Microsoft-MacOutlook/14.4.4.140807 x-ms-exchange-transport-fromentityheader: Hosted x-originating-ip: [66.129.239.10] x-microsoft-antispam: BCL:0;PCL:0;RULEID:;SRVR:CO1PR05MB458; x-exchange-antispam-report-test: UriScan:; x-forefront-prvs: 03883BD916 x-forefront-antispam-report: SFV:NSPM; SFS:(10019020)(6009001)(199003)(164054003)(189002)(92566001)(561944003)(99396003)(50986999)(83506001)(54356999)(77096003)(120916001)(87936001)(101416001)(92726001)(46102003)(97736003)(76176999)(31966008)(93886004)(77156002)(122556002)(66066001)(40100003)(21056001)(106356001)(2656002)(62966003)(86362001)(107046002)(105586002)(95666004)(99286002)(4396001)(106116001)(20776003)(36756003)(64706001); DIR:OUT; SFP:1102; SCL:1; SRVR:CO1PR05MB458; H:CO1PR05MB458.namprd05.prod.outlook.com; FPR:; MLV:sfv; PTR:InfoNoRecords; A:1; MX:1; LANG:en; Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-ID: <8ECFAF35714A49479B199044CFD6C8A1@namprd05.prod.outlook.com> Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable MIME-Version: 1.0 X-OriginatorOrg: juniper.net Archived-At: http://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/netmod/eHKGckoNjfM-d2cbOI26G1oe2ys Cc: "netmod@ietf.org" Subject: Re: [netmod] ietf 91 netmod agenda (revised) X-BeenThere: netmod@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: NETMOD WG list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 07 Nov 2014 18:55:39 -0000 Going back to this response: >The NETMOD WG may have a wide open charter, but I am pretty sure >it does not include any protocol work at all. I don't know if NETCONF >is the right WG, but this is not in scope for NETMOD. I only recommended NETCONF WG as the push-proposal appears to be an extension to RFC 5277 (NETCONF Notifications) and maybe RFC 6470 (System Notifications), both of which were done in the NETCONF WG. Thanks, Kent From nobody Fri Nov 7 11:59:19 2014 Return-Path: X-Original-To: netmod@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: netmod@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 708C11A1A28 for ; Fri, 7 Nov 2014 11:59:16 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -0.945 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-0.945 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, HELO_EQ_CZ=0.445, HOST_EQ_CZ=0.904, MIME_8BIT_HEADER=0.3, RP_MATCHES_RCVD=-0.594] autolearn=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id JsUrLjzyTwtR for ; Fri, 7 Nov 2014 11:59:14 -0800 (PST) Received: from mail.nic.cz (mail.nic.cz [IPv6:2001:1488:800:400::400]) (using TLSv1 with cipher ADH-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 642BA1A1A1E for ; Fri, 7 Nov 2014 11:59:13 -0800 (PST) Received: from [172.16.134.83] (unknown [213.195.200.174]) by mail.nic.cz (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 34C79140103; Fri, 7 Nov 2014 20:59:11 +0100 (CET) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=simple/simple; d=nic.cz; s=default; t=1415390351; bh=1StV8arKznaEgeg3NXNORCJ4nlb/gK9R+4WSV8IgdCs=; h=Content-Type:Mime-Version:Subject:From:In-Reply-To:Date:Cc: Content-Transfer-Encoding:Message-Id:References:To; b=Iwm/OO3UZkDpfZ46AeXzYkCtFSrxs9zKszNmd5pXoP7wA0QzzNMgisaza5/JaiEnl OhdoIE3uXLxP6cQkQljUHS+9/aa1FMsYKILrSmjVd9gVmcFpNPuyEirjTOru3FkffJ WHuGf+LA9THcszCzp2UThc28xtlVoAhpqpnIRUJQ= Content-Type: text/plain; charset=windows-1252 Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 7.3 \(1878.6\)) From: Ladislav Lhotka In-Reply-To: Date: Fri, 7 Nov 2014 20:59:11 +0100 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Message-Id: <67F95011-6886-44FD-B42F-5B3A46F86056@nic.cz> References: <545C8E9D.2070100@mg-soft.com> <20141107.175029.05408351.mbj@tail-f.com> To: =?windows-1252?Q?Martin_Bj=F6rklund?= , Andy Bierman X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.1878.6) X-Virus-Scanned: clamav-milter 0.98.1 at mail X-Virus-Status: Clean Archived-At: http://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/netmod/f-6u2aiszag84hUcfFSQSMoS178 Cc: netmod@ietf.org Subject: Re: [netmod] I-D Action: draft-ietf-netmod-rfc6087bis-01.txt X-BeenThere: netmod@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: NETMOD WG list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 07 Nov 2014 19:59:16 -0000 On 07 Nov 2014, at 18:28, Ladislav Lhotka wrote: > Martin Bjorklund writes: >=20 >> Andy Bierman wrote: >>> On Fri, Nov 7, 2014 at 6:40 AM, Ladislav Lhotka = wrote: >>>> Jernej Tuljak writes: >>>>=20 >>>>> Dne 5.11.2014 16:07, pi=9Ae Andy Bierman: >>>>>> Hi, >>>>>>=20 >>>>>> Can you suggest replacement text for the specific details you do = not like? >>>>>> I will look into your comments on the Axes and Wildcards = sections. >>>>>=20 >>>>> See below. >>>>>=20 >>>>>>=20 >>>>>> Andy >>>>>>=20 >>>>>>=20 >>>>>> On Wed, Nov 5, 2014 at 5:18 AM, Jernej Tuljak = >>>>>> wrote: >>>>>>> (now replying to the proper thread) >>>>>>>=20 >>>>>>> I see that the issues I raised regarding XPath expressions >>>>>>> = (http://www.ietf.org/mail-archive/web/netmod/current/msg10172.html) have >>>>>>> now >>>>>>> made it into rfc6087bis-01 section 5.5. >>>>>>>=20 >>>>>>> Section 5.5.1, what should a YANG compiler return for = 'namespace-uri()' >>>>>>> and >>>>>>> 'name()' function if they are used? >>>>>=20 >>>>> OLD: >>>>> The 'namespace-uri' and 'name' functions SHOULD NOT be used. >>>>> Expanded names in XPath are different than YANG. A specific >>>>> canonical representation of a YANG expanded name does not = exist. >>>>>=20 >>>>> NEW: >>>>> The 'namespace-uri' and 'name' functions SHOULD NOT be used. >>>>> Expanded names in XPath are different than YANG. A specific >>>>> canonical representation of a YANG expanded name does not = exist. >>>>> The YANG compiler SHOULD return an empty string for both of >>>>> these functions. >>>>=20 >>>> While I agree these functions (and perhaps local-name(), too) = should not >>>> be used, I don't understand the reasoning. Why are expanded names >>>> different? The context for XPath evaluation has to be an XML = document. >>>>=20 >>>=20 >>> I think you are right. Since the namespace-stmt is mapped to the >>> XML expanded name part when parsing XML, the YANG compiler >>> can just return the namespace-stmt value for the current module. >>=20 >> +1 This is what our implementation does. >>=20 >> But the 'name' is more problematic. When the input is an XML >> document, it returns a prefixed name if there is a prefix for the >> namespace in teh XML source, or unprefixed if no such prefix is >> declared. It is pretty clear that it SHOULD NOT be used... or at >> least the result is implementation dependent. >=20 > Or the prefix could always be the argument of the corresponding = "prefix" > statement (by definition). Actually, it is exactly what the first bullet in sec. 6.4.1 (XPath = Context) implies. Lada >=20 > Lada >=20 >>=20 >>=20 >> /martin >=20 > --=20 > Ladislav Lhotka, CZ.NIC Labs > PGP Key ID: E74E8C0C >=20 > _______________________________________________ > netmod mailing list > netmod@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/netmod -- Ladislav Lhotka, CZ.NIC Labs PGP Key ID: E74E8C0C From nobody Sat Nov 8 04:08:08 2014 Return-Path: X-Original-To: netmod@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: netmod@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 59FF21A6FE4 for ; Sat, 8 Nov 2014 04:08:05 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -0.597 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-0.597 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_20=-0.001, RP_MATCHES_RCVD=-0.594, SPF_HELO_PASS=-0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 5Jh0Ie_tOfF9 for ; Sat, 8 Nov 2014 04:08:03 -0800 (PST) Received: from lucidvision.com (lucidvision.com [72.71.250.34]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 33E3A1A1ABB for ; Sat, 8 Nov 2014 04:08:02 -0800 (PST) Received: from [192.168.1.123] (static-72-71-250-38.cncdnh.fast04.myfairpoint.net [72.71.250.38]) by lucidvision.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id DFD50290E177 for ; Sat, 8 Nov 2014 07:08:01 -0500 (EST) From: "Thomas D. Nadeau" Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Message-Id: <1AF45BD6-C801-41C1-9BBC-C96F6FE06AFD@lucidvision.com> Date: Sat, 8 Nov 2014 07:08:01 -0500 To: NETMOD Working Group Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 8.0 \(1990.1\)) X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.1990.1) Archived-At: http://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/netmod/3SbIihBHZbFoCDpCWNqkp4Nyi2s Subject: [netmod] WG Meeting Slides X-BeenThere: netmod@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: NETMOD WG list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sat, 08 Nov 2014 12:08:05 -0000 If you are on the agenda for one of the two NETMOD meetings this = week, please send me your slides ASAP.=20 Thanks! --Tom From nobody Sun Nov 9 00:54:27 2014 Return-Path: X-Original-To: netmod@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: netmod@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4E3991A1A4E for ; Sun, 9 Nov 2014 00:54:24 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -10.095 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-10.095 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, RP_MATCHES_RCVD=-0.594, SPF_PASS=-0.001, USER_IN_DEF_DKIM_WL=-7.5] autolearn=ham Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id y23gX9wX9GOj for ; Sun, 9 Nov 2014 00:54:23 -0800 (PST) Received: from bgl-iport-3.cisco.com (bgl-iport-3.cisco.com [72.163.197.27]) (using TLSv1 with cipher RC4-SHA (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 6379D1A1A4D for ; Sun, 9 Nov 2014 00:54:22 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/simple; d=cisco.com; i=@cisco.com; l=442; q=dns/txt; s=iport; t=1415523262; x=1416732862; h=message-id:date:from:mime-version:to:subject: content-transfer-encoding; bh=ewiMp6vhlBTxVpYhOeGUu4xJZBAswLTb9kI1t9PasY8=; b=Wt5+3CcirrbXmkVgWt7E7+lUQ0UyCHU7JzFEi5+AxKiPIzD+4FuNiCJl 7Y0E2dQ3JI3fW3fQS+G3WDUaB5bf1ojzxnlTnwFD+msjh4WN9DQSiEY+Q asu/w1hd88b+5OLScqLieU5H36+ljMsL4OSER7+hPFIcDGxoMrabnNnj9 s=; X-IronPort-Anti-Spam-Filtered: true X-IronPort-Anti-Spam-Result: AqIEAE4qX1RIo8UY/2dsb2JhbABb2R0BAQEBAX2EQUA9FhgDAgECAUsNCAEBiD2oMKRAAQEBBwEBAQEekDMRAYUiAQSeJYd6jmaEHhmBPoE8AQEB X-IronPort-AV: E=Sophos;i="5.07,345,1413244800"; d="scan'208";a="12735507" Received: from vla196-nat.cisco.com (HELO bgl-core-1.cisco.com) ([72.163.197.24]) by bgl-iport-3.cisco.com with ESMTP; 09 Nov 2014 08:54:19 +0000 Received: from [10.21.101.29] (sjc-vpn1-1309.cisco.com [10.21.101.29]) by bgl-core-1.cisco.com (8.14.5/8.14.5) with ESMTP id sA98sGho028128 for ; Sun, 9 Nov 2014 08:54:17 GMT Message-ID: <545F2BAA.1010407@cisco.com> Date: Sat, 08 Nov 2014 22:54:02 -1000 From: Benoit Claise User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 6.1; WOW64; rv:24.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/24.7.0 MIME-Version: 1.0 To: NETMOD Working Group Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Archived-At: http://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/netmod/uY6hqtkAnkDmhZ8VsrZ2ks6rHxE Subject: [netmod] Lost all my netmod emails (thunderbird) X-BeenThere: netmod@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: NETMOD WG list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sun, 09 Nov 2014 08:54:24 -0000 Dear all, After using "repair folder" on my NETMOD folder (with thunderbird 24.7.0), I lost 99,9% of my NETMOD emails. Years of email are gone, and I frequently search through my folder. I'm not sure how to download from the archive directly. So if someone, with years of netmod emails, could be so kind to send this file, that would be appreciated. No need for .msf file, it will be generated automatically. Regards, Benoit From nobody Mon Nov 10 04:54:09 2014 Return-Path: X-Original-To: netmod@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: netmod@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8CBEC1A8A40 for ; Mon, 10 Nov 2014 04:54:07 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.494 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.494 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, RP_MATCHES_RCVD=-0.594] autolearn=ham Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id xYrLJsoaap6b for ; Mon, 10 Nov 2014 04:54:05 -0800 (PST) Received: from gate.mg-soft.si (gate.mg-soft.si [212.30.73.66]) (using TLSv1 with cipher DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id AFFB31A8A3C for ; Mon, 10 Nov 2014 04:54:04 -0800 (PST) Received: from [10.0.0.222] (tp-x61t.mg-soft.si [10.0.0.222]) by gate.mg-soft.si (8.13.8/8.13.8) with ESMTP id sAACs13R027934; Mon, 10 Nov 2014 13:54:01 +0100 Message-ID: <5460B564.1080609@mg-soft.com> Date: Mon, 10 Nov 2014 13:53:56 +0100 From: Jernej Tuljak User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 6.1; WOW64; rv:17.0) Gecko/17.0 Thunderbird/17.0 MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Ladislav Lhotka References: <545C8E9D.2070100@mg-soft.com> <20141107.175029.05408351.mbj@tail-f.com> <67F95011-6886-44FD-B42F-5B3A46F86056@nic.cz> In-Reply-To: <67F95011-6886-44FD-B42F-5B3A46F86056@nic.cz> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=windows-1252; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Archived-At: http://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/netmod/jZwVVEPZN1dRYybxwR5mJ_3Y-To Cc: netmod@ietf.org Subject: Re: [netmod] I-D Action: draft-ietf-netmod-rfc6087bis-01.txt X-BeenThere: netmod@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: NETMOD WG list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 10 Nov 2014 12:54:07 -0000 Dne 7.11.2014 20:59, piše Ladislav Lhotka: > On 07 Nov 2014, at 18:28, Ladislav Lhotka wrote: > >> Martin Bjorklund writes: >> >>> Andy Bierman wrote: >>>> On Fri, Nov 7, 2014 at 6:40 AM, Ladislav Lhotka wrote: >>>>> Jernej Tuljak writes: >>>>> >>>>>> Dne 5.11.2014 16:07, piše Andy Bierman: >>>>>>> Hi, >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Can you suggest replacement text for the specific details you do not like? >>>>>>> I will look into your comments on the Axes and Wildcards sections. >>>>>> See below. >>>>>> >>>>>>> Andy >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> On Wed, Nov 5, 2014 at 5:18 AM, Jernej Tuljak >>>>>>> wrote: >>>>>>>> (now replying to the proper thread) >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> I see that the issues I raised regarding XPath expressions >>>>>>>> (http://www.ietf.org/mail-archive/web/netmod/current/msg10172.html) have >>>>>>>> now >>>>>>>> made it into rfc6087bis-01 section 5.5. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Section 5.5.1, what should a YANG compiler return for 'namespace-uri()' >>>>>>>> and >>>>>>>> 'name()' function if they are used? >>>>>> OLD: >>>>>> The 'namespace-uri' and 'name' functions SHOULD NOT be used. >>>>>> Expanded names in XPath are different than YANG. A specific >>>>>> canonical representation of a YANG expanded name does not exist. >>>>>> >>>>>> NEW: >>>>>> The 'namespace-uri' and 'name' functions SHOULD NOT be used. >>>>>> Expanded names in XPath are different than YANG. A specific >>>>>> canonical representation of a YANG expanded name does not exist. >>>>>> The YANG compiler SHOULD return an empty string for both of >>>>>> these functions. >>>>> While I agree these functions (and perhaps local-name(), too) should not >>>>> be used, I don't understand the reasoning. Why are expanded names >>>>> different? The context for XPath evaluation has to be an XML document. >>>>> >>>> I think you are right. Since the namespace-stmt is mapped to the >>>> XML expanded name part when parsing XML, the YANG compiler >>>> can just return the namespace-stmt value for the current module. >>> +1 This is what our implementation does. +1 This is what our validator implementation currently does too. >>> >>> But the 'name' is more problematic. When the input is an XML >>> document, it returns a prefixed name if there is a prefix for the >>> namespace in teh XML source, or unprefixed if no such prefix is >>> declared. It is pretty clear that it SHOULD NOT be used... or at >>> least the result is implementation dependent. >> Or the prefix could always be the argument of the corresponding "prefix" >> statement (by definition). > Actually, it is exactly what the first bullet in sec. 6.4.1 (XPath Context) implies. What about augmented nodes - nodes from foreign namespaces - not covered by this bullet? The augmenting module could easily introduce a prefix clash. Also, accessible trees might be made up of data nodes from modules that had their prefixes obfuscated due to prefix clash resolution (DSDL plugin of pyang does it as specified by RFC6110). An instance would probably contain those, not original prefixes. It would be nice to have as many standard functions as possible do something but I think tolerating 'name' might be pushing it. It is inherently instance dependent per XPath spec. Can you come up with a useful use case for it within a YANG model? If not, it would be safer to just say SHOULD NOT be used. Jernej > > Lada > >> Lada >> >>> >>> /martin >> -- >> Ladislav Lhotka, CZ.NIC Labs >> PGP Key ID: E74E8C0C >> >> _______________________________________________ >> netmod mailing list >> netmod@ietf.org >> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/netmod > -- > Ladislav Lhotka, CZ.NIC Labs > PGP Key ID: E74E8C0C > > > > > _______________________________________________ > netmod mailing list > netmod@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/netmod From nobody Mon Nov 10 05:14:33 2014 Return-Path: X-Original-To: netmod@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: netmod@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0BD121A8A81 for ; Mon, 10 Nov 2014 05:14:26 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -4.201 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-4.201 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-2.3, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id dZ7LwT9jNNQL for ; Mon, 10 Nov 2014 05:14:15 -0800 (PST) Received: from sesbmg22.ericsson.net (sesbmg22.ericsson.net [193.180.251.48]) (using TLSv1 with cipher DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id AF83E1A8A8B for ; Mon, 10 Nov 2014 05:14:14 -0800 (PST) X-AuditID: c1b4fb30-f79e66d000000ff1-d9-5460ba241b91 Received: from ESGSCHC003.ericsson.se (Unknown_Domain [153.88.253.124]) by sesbmg22.ericsson.net (Symantec Mail Security) with SMTP id 2F.C4.04081.42AB0645; Mon, 10 Nov 2014 14:14:12 +0100 (CET) Received: from ESGSCMB103.ericsson.se ([169.254.3.216]) by ESGSCHC003.ericsson.se ([10.0.18.179]) with mapi id 14.03.0174.001; Mon, 10 Nov 2014 21:14:09 +0800 From: Johnson Zhu To: "netmod@ietf.org" Thread-Topic: [netmod] Change Default Value Thread-Index: Ac/852w7b1SEiyACS52CxY4u/A47Ew== Date: Mon, 10 Nov 2014 13:14:09 +0000 Message-ID: <31BFEF67CF6AC44BBEDE1890158D7377384E1137@ESGSCMB103.ericsson.se> Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-originating-ip: [146.11.116.128] Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Brightmail-Tracker: H4sIAAAAAAAAA+NgFtrPLMWRmVeSWpSXmKPExsUyM+Jvja7KroQQg/adBhbzLzayOjB6LFny kymAMYrLJiU1J7MstUjfLoErY8+yjWwFvxkr5hz8ztjAeJKxi5GTQ0LAROL050ksELaYxIV7 69m6GLk4hASOMEqc/b6cFcJZxCgxr/k/G0gVm4COxJr+SWC2iIC6xMyd68FsYQE1idNn7gDZ HEBxbYmr60QgSvQkDh/fwQ5iswioSlyY+o8ZxOYV8JV4cPQz2GJGoMXfT61hArGZBcQlbj2Z zwRxkIDEkj3nmSFsUYmXj/+xQthKEo2vtkHV60gs2P2JDcLWlli28DXUfEGJkzOfsExgFJ6F ZOwsJC2zkLTMQtKygJFlFaNocWpxUm66kZFealFmcnFxfp5eXmrJJkZgiB/c8ttgB+PL546H GAU4GJV4eD98jA8RYk0sK67MPcQozcGiJM678Ny8YCGB9MSS1OzU1ILUovii0pzU4kOMTByc Ug2MHr9+XuqsKbwiYr1ndcUqr8nS3WuKGucwtX9w9mzZPDFqoUG6V8Qn/5exluf8v+uu6ll9 mH/X89ANmWYHln1YJh/j3i56hOnInx222kaB87dbt9x9yHHpmfuitMPeOe7TsvnPVV1rmb9j veLux32J21MvVExIFdgYWxEzfekPWVft+qlnfmtOUWIpzkg01GIuKk4EAENjkK1SAgAA Archived-At: http://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/netmod/evKCrbqfpRsu-pVpHK44MK5jGB0 Subject: [netmod] Change Default Value X-BeenThere: netmod@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: NETMOD WG list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 10 Nov 2014 13:14:26 -0000 Hi, Is that possible to change default value (typedef/leaf) in a separate yang = file by using current YANG syntax? =20 Without touching the standard/draft YANG model file, does current YANG synt= ax offer that capability? Thanks /Johnson From nobody Mon Nov 10 05:23:04 2014 Return-Path: X-Original-To: netmod@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: netmod@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 667931A8A59 for ; Mon, 10 Nov 2014 05:23:01 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.495 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.495 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, RP_MATCHES_RCVD=-0.594, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id NTTLH5cOsJDj for ; Mon, 10 Nov 2014 05:22:59 -0800 (PST) Received: from mail.tail-f.com (mail.tail-f.com [83.241.162.140]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9C7CF1A8A79 for ; Mon, 10 Nov 2014 05:22:59 -0800 (PST) Received: from localhost (x15.tail-f.com [192.168.1.60]) by mail.tail-f.com (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id AE82A128099C; Mon, 10 Nov 2014 14:22:58 +0100 (CET) Date: Mon, 10 Nov 2014 14:22:58 +0100 (CET) Message-Id: <20141110.142258.7111248195762956.mbj@tail-f.com> To: johnson.zhu@ericsson.com From: Martin Bjorklund In-Reply-To: <31BFEF67CF6AC44BBEDE1890158D7377384E1137@ESGSCMB103.ericsson.se> References: <31BFEF67CF6AC44BBEDE1890158D7377384E1137@ESGSCMB103.ericsson.se> X-Mailer: Mew version 6.5 on Emacs 23.4 / Mule 6.0 (HANACHIRUSATO) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: Text/Plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Archived-At: http://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/netmod/UMavixjQnVKGFIpEJmkxy5CU7FI Cc: netmod@ietf.org Subject: Re: [netmod] Change Default Value X-BeenThere: netmod@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: NETMOD WG list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 10 Nov 2014 13:23:01 -0000 Johnson Zhu wrote: > Hi, > > Is that possible to change default value (typedef/leaf) in a separate > yang file by using current YANG syntax? > > Without touching the standard/draft YANG model file, does current YANG > syntax offer that capability? Yes, by using a deviation: deviation /x:std-leaf { deviate replace { default "my-new-default"; } } (not recommended though; it would be a serious contract violation) /martin From nobody Mon Nov 10 05:30:23 2014 Return-Path: X-Original-To: netmod@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: netmod@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 85D6B1A8AAB for ; Mon, 10 Nov 2014 05:30:21 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -4.201 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-4.201 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-2.3, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id VLnszgtKHVt9 for ; Mon, 10 Nov 2014 05:30:20 -0800 (PST) Received: from sesbmg23.ericsson.net (sesbmg23.ericsson.net [193.180.251.37]) (using TLSv1 with cipher DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id E5A431A8AB8 for ; Mon, 10 Nov 2014 05:30:19 -0800 (PST) X-AuditID: c1b4fb25-f791c6d00000617b-64-5460bde8e54e Received: from ESGSCHC006.ericsson.se (Unknown_Domain [153.88.253.124]) by sesbmg23.ericsson.net (Symantec Mail Security) with SMTP id FC.01.24955.9EDB0645; Mon, 10 Nov 2014 14:30:17 +0100 (CET) Received: from ESGSCMB103.ericsson.se ([169.254.3.216]) by ESGSCHC006.ericsson.se ([146.11.116.83]) with mapi id 14.03.0174.001; Mon, 10 Nov 2014 21:30:15 +0800 From: Johnson Zhu To: Martin Bjorklund Thread-Topic: [netmod] Change Default Value Thread-Index: Ac/852w7b1SEiyACS52CxY4u/A47E///fe4A//95XbA= Date: Mon, 10 Nov 2014 13:30:15 +0000 Message-ID: <31BFEF67CF6AC44BBEDE1890158D7377384E11B8@ESGSCMB103.ericsson.se> References: <31BFEF67CF6AC44BBEDE1890158D7377384E1137@ESGSCMB103.ericsson.se> <20141110.142258.7111248195762956.mbj@tail-f.com> In-Reply-To: <20141110.142258.7111248195762956.mbj@tail-f.com> Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-originating-ip: [146.11.116.128] Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Brightmail-Tracker: H4sIAAAAAAAAA+NgFnrHLMWRmVeSWpSXmKPExsUyM+Jvje7LvQkhBrun21h0dz9jt5h/sZHV gcljyZKfTB4bfy1mCWCK4rJJSc3JLEst0rdL4Mq4+/U4Y8FUjoq9HyYzNTDuYOti5OSQEDCR WPfqHBOELSZx4d56oDgXh5DAEUaJ82tXskM4SxglVlz7ClbFJqAjsaZ/Eli3iICqxJOda1lA bGYBdYk7px6DxYUFtCS+tUwDauYAqtGWuLpOBKLcSmLxfohWFqDWdY1NYCN5BXwlfvzcwQqx q5FRYtrZ66wgCU4BO4mP3cvYQWxGoOu+n1rDBLFLXOLWk/lQVwtILNlznhnCFpV4+fgfK4St JNH4ahtUvY7Egt2f2CBsbYllC18zQywWlDg58wnLBEaxWUjGzkLSMgtJyywkLQsYWVYxihan FiflphsZ66UWZSYXF+fn6eWllmxiBEbQwS2/VXcwXn7jeIhRgINRiYf3w8f4ECHWxLLiytxD jNIcLErivAvPzQsWEkhPLEnNTk0tSC2KLyrNSS0+xMjEwSnVwOje/d5ulsXm88Hnzt5Jc4uo tdyoOKd9evO/TtMeb2YmjeCkfc9tNZWmm989b/QvXeme0Il5+/O+zFv/lfvEvN0/We5l7E84 q3fcSOrAwj6L0nc6v8ryF3e4nJ494fyX48tktzfu6ZCLt7k6s3Qr4xZvDvep+zdcc3nxLbqJ 2Yu5PfqZVNYSZ20lluKMREMt5qLiRACLmv6bgQIAAA== Archived-At: http://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/netmod/y2_exv8eQ3v8aEGA446cbQFfP8M Cc: "netmod@ietf.org" Subject: Re: [netmod] Change Default Value X-BeenThere: netmod@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: NETMOD WG list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 10 Nov 2014 13:30:21 -0000 Hi Matin, Thank for your quick response.=20 I agree with you the deviation is not recommended. Is any other way to achi= eve this? Today the device (router/switch) has the different default value, can we el= iminate the difference when adopting to YANG model (e.g. YANG has all defau= lt defined)? Thanks /Johnson -----Original Message----- From: Martin Bjorklund [mailto:mbj@tail-f.com]=20 Sent: Monday, November 10, 2014 9:23 PM To: Johnson Zhu Cc: netmod@ietf.org Subject: Re: [netmod] Change Default Value Johnson Zhu wrote: > Hi, >=20 > Is that possible to change default value (typedef/leaf) in a separate=20 > yang file by using current YANG syntax? > =20 > Without touching the standard/draft YANG model file, does current YANG=20 > syntax offer that capability? Yes, by using a deviation: deviation /x:std-leaf { deviate replace { default "my-new-default"; } } (not recommended though; it would be a serious contract violation) /martin From nobody Mon Nov 10 05:42:03 2014 Return-Path: X-Original-To: netmod@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: netmod@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 084501A8AD7 for ; Mon, 10 Nov 2014 05:42:02 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.495 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.495 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, RP_MATCHES_RCVD=-0.594, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id K0PloN6zM9Up for ; Mon, 10 Nov 2014 05:42:01 -0800 (PST) Received: from mail.tail-f.com (mail.tail-f.com [83.241.162.140]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id EDADD1A8AED for ; Mon, 10 Nov 2014 05:42:00 -0800 (PST) Received: from localhost (x15.tail-f.com [192.168.1.60]) by mail.tail-f.com (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 15EDA1280096; Mon, 10 Nov 2014 14:42:00 +0100 (CET) Date: Mon, 10 Nov 2014 14:41:59 +0100 (CET) Message-Id: <20141110.144159.330870426834473119.mbj@tail-f.com> To: johnson.zhu@ericsson.com From: Martin Bjorklund In-Reply-To: <31BFEF67CF6AC44BBEDE1890158D7377384E11B8@ESGSCMB103.ericsson.se> References: <31BFEF67CF6AC44BBEDE1890158D7377384E1137@ESGSCMB103.ericsson.se> <20141110.142258.7111248195762956.mbj@tail-f.com> <31BFEF67CF6AC44BBEDE1890158D7377384E11B8@ESGSCMB103.ericsson.se> X-Mailer: Mew version 6.5 on Emacs 23.4 / Mule 6.0 (HANACHIRUSATO) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: Text/Plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Archived-At: http://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/netmod/rGRDs1hFEpFctEDSY2rEcxkLbZ4 Cc: netmod@ietf.org Subject: Re: [netmod] Change Default Value X-BeenThere: netmod@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: NETMOD WG list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 10 Nov 2014 13:42:02 -0000 Johnson Zhu wrote: > Hi Matin, > > Thank for your quick response. > > I agree with you the deviation is not recommended. Is any other way to > achieve this? No, it is not the deviation that is not recommended; it is the notion of changing a default value in a standard module. > Today the device (router/switch) has the different default value, can > we eliminate the difference when adopting to YANG model (e.g. YANG has > all default defined)? I think it would be best to try to keep the YANG contract, so that if the leaf is not set over NETCONF/YANG, the device behaves as if the default value is in effect; e.g., by letting the NETCONF server internally set the YANG default value explicitly. /martin From nobody Mon Nov 10 06:03:51 2014 Return-Path: X-Original-To: netmod@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: netmod@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 843341A8BB5 for ; Mon, 10 Nov 2014 06:03:49 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: 0.148 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=0.148 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_20=-0.001, MIME_CHARSET_FARAWAY=2.45, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-2.3, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id fvRhPUmRaD0i for ; Mon, 10 Nov 2014 06:03:48 -0800 (PST) Received: from sessmg23.ericsson.net (sessmg23.ericsson.net [193.180.251.45]) (using TLSv1 with cipher DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 940161A8ACE for ; Mon, 10 Nov 2014 06:03:47 -0800 (PST) X-AuditID: c1b4fb2d-f79fc6d000001087-90-5460c5c0f3fe Received: from ESGSCHC008.ericsson.se (Unknown_Domain [153.88.253.124]) by sessmg23.ericsson.net (Symantec Mail Security) with SMTP id 33.0F.04231.1C5C0645; Mon, 10 Nov 2014 15:03:45 +0100 (CET) Received: from ESGSCMB103.ericsson.se ([169.254.3.216]) by ESGSCHC008.ericsson.se ([146.11.116.89]) with mapi id 14.03.0174.001; Mon, 10 Nov 2014 22:03:43 +0800 From: Johnson Zhu To: Martin Bjorklund Thread-Topic: [netmod] Change Default Value Thread-Index: Ac/852w7b1SEiyACS52CxY4u/A47E///fe4A//95XbCAAIvzgIAAjC9G Date: Mon, 10 Nov 2014 14:03:43 +0000 Message-ID: <8uay4wnrjs0kuw7tadyah783.1415628013165@email.android.com> References: <31BFEF67CF6AC44BBEDE1890158D7377384E1137@ESGSCMB103.ericsson.se> <20141110.142258.7111248195762956.mbj@tail-f.com> <31BFEF67CF6AC44BBEDE1890158D7377384E11B8@ESGSCMB103.ericsson.se>, <20141110.144159.330870426834473119.mbj@tail-f.com> In-Reply-To: <20141110.144159.330870426834473119.mbj@tail-f.com> Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: Content-Type: text/plain; charset="gb2312" Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Brightmail-Tracker: H4sIAAAAAAAAA+NgFnrELMWRmVeSWpSXmKPExsUyM+Jvje7BowkhBhvm6lt0dz9jt5h/sZHV gcljyZKfTB4bfy1mCWCK4rJJSc3JLEst0rdL4Mr4vfche8E3zopnhz+zNzBe4exi5OSQEDCR 2L9jNhOELSZx4d56ti5GLg4hgSOMEqt2HGeFcJYAOVtXs4JUsQnoSKzpn8QGYosIqEo82bmW BcRmFlCXuHPqMVhcWEBL4vLJC4xdjBxANdoSV9eJQJS7SbyfPQ2snAWodf3N6WDlvEDxY43N LBC7fjJKdP34DHYRp4CDxJOO6YwgNiPQdd9PrWGC2CUucevJfKirBSSW7DnPDGGLSrx8/I8V okZLYl7Db6h6RYkp3Q/ZIZYJSpyc+YRlAqPoLCSjZiFpmYWkZRaSlgWMLKsYRYtTi4tz042M 9VKLMpOLi/Pz9PJSSzYxAiPl4JbfujsYV792PMQowMGoxMP74WN8iBBrYllxZe4hRmkOFiVx 3kXn5gULCaQnlqRmp6YWpBbFF5XmpBYfYmTi4JRqYMw022KX9MlOO+t6sFdq7PPI3x+U3z0x Xrxv3Tm1SM2bW8QsOqa9Cxea8dbI+VD2cq0A2wUsm6I2Cpw7q3zxVbRejCl3QEfAnc1hio0z da+fYZV17G96Mntbo2jMqqRtP8wee/6ft3q2ivGCE8yPbn1IeCZszeNyzjY3yfh5x6Xpwn2S Pq8+vVNiKc5INNRiLipOBABqeezJdQIAAA== Archived-At: http://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/netmod/jTJWWfy1uNOqz8xTInJTpn0gDQU Cc: "netmod@ietf.org" Subject: Re: [netmod] Change Default Value X-BeenThere: netmod@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: NETMOD WG list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 10 Nov 2014 14:03:49 -0000 DQpoaSBNYXJ0aW4sDQoNCllvdXIgdHdvIGFuc3dlcnMgYXJlIGdvb2Qgc3VnZ2VzdGlvbnMuIFRo YXQgaXMgYWxsIEkgbmVlZCBmb3Igbm93Lg0KDQovam9obnNvbg0KDQoNCrei19TO0rXE0KHD18rW u/oNCg0KTWFydGluIEJqb3JrbHVuZCA8bWJqQHRhaWwtZi5jb20+seDQtKO6DQoNCg0KSm9obnNv biBaaHUgPGpvaG5zb24uemh1QGVyaWNzc29uLmNvbT4gd3JvdGU6DQo+IEhpIE1hdGluLA0KPg0K PiBUaGFuayBmb3IgeW91ciBxdWljayByZXNwb25zZS4NCj4NCj4gSSBhZ3JlZSB3aXRoIHlvdSB0 aGUgZGV2aWF0aW9uIGlzIG5vdCByZWNvbW1lbmRlZC4gSXMgYW55IG90aGVyIHdheSB0bw0KPiBh Y2hpZXZlIHRoaXM/DQoNCk5vLCBpdCBpcyBub3QgdGhlIGRldmlhdGlvbiB0aGF0IGlzIG5vdCBy ZWNvbW1lbmRlZDsgaXQgaXMgdGhlIG5vdGlvbg0Kb2YgY2hhbmdpbmcgYSBkZWZhdWx0IHZhbHVl IGluIGEgc3RhbmRhcmQgbW9kdWxlLg0KDQo+IFRvZGF5IHRoZSBkZXZpY2UgKHJvdXRlci9zd2l0 Y2gpIGhhcyB0aGUgZGlmZmVyZW50IGRlZmF1bHQgdmFsdWUsIGNhbg0KPiB3ZSBlbGltaW5hdGUg dGhlIGRpZmZlcmVuY2Ugd2hlbiBhZG9wdGluZyB0byBZQU5HIG1vZGVsIChlLmcuIFlBTkcgaGFz DQo+IGFsbCBkZWZhdWx0IGRlZmluZWQpPw0KDQpJIHRoaW5rIGl0IHdvdWxkIGJlIGJlc3QgdG8g dHJ5IHRvIGtlZXAgdGhlIFlBTkcgY29udHJhY3QsIHNvIHRoYXQgaWYNCnRoZSBsZWFmIGlzIG5v dCBzZXQgb3ZlciBORVRDT05GL1lBTkcsIHRoZSBkZXZpY2UgYmVoYXZlcyBhcyBpZiB0aGUNCmRl ZmF1bHQgdmFsdWUgaXMgaW4gZWZmZWN0OyBlLmcuLCBieSBsZXR0aW5nIHRoZSBORVRDT05GIHNl cnZlcg0KaW50ZXJuYWxseSBzZXQgdGhlIFlBTkcgZGVmYXVsdCB2YWx1ZSBleHBsaWNpdGx5Lg0K DQoNCi9tYXJ0aW4NCg== From nobody Mon Nov 10 10:05:46 2014 Return-Path: X-Original-To: netmod@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: netmod@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id EF77E1A1BD2; Mon, 10 Nov 2014 10:05:43 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.9 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.9 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9] autolearn=ham Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id ggAyS16eGIPf; Mon, 10 Nov 2014 10:05:42 -0800 (PST) Received: from ietfa.amsl.com (localhost [IPv6:::1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4AB651A1BC7; Mon, 10 Nov 2014 10:05:42 -0800 (PST) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: internet-drafts@ietf.org To: i-d-announce@ietf.org X-Test-IDTracker: no X-IETF-IDTracker: 5.7.2.p1 Auto-Submitted: auto-generated Precedence: bulk Message-ID: <20141110180542.13920.20494.idtracker@ietfa.amsl.com> Date: Mon, 10 Nov 2014 10:05:42 -0800 Archived-At: http://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/netmod/vczy4FsoPkCGzujOl8hFbq6w_Is Cc: netmod@ietf.org Subject: [netmod] I-D Action: draft-ietf-netmod-syslog-model-00.txt X-BeenThere: netmod@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 List-Id: NETMOD WG list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 10 Nov 2014 18:05:44 -0000 A New Internet-Draft is available from the on-line Internet-Drafts directories. This draft is a work item of the NETCONF Data Modeling Language Working Group of the IETF. Title : SYSLOG YANG model Authors : Clyde Wildes Brocade Communications Systems Filename : draft-ietf-netmod-syslog-model-00.txt Pages : 21 Date : 2014-11-10 Abstract: This document describes a data model for Syslog protocol which is used to convey event notification messages. The IETF datatracker status page for this draft is: https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-netmod-syslog-model/ There's also a htmlized version available at: http://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-netmod-syslog-model-00 Please note that it may take a couple of minutes from the time of submission until the htmlized version and diff are available at tools.ietf.org. Internet-Drafts are also available by anonymous FTP at: ftp://ftp.ietf.org/internet-drafts/ From nobody Mon Nov 10 10:08:31 2014 Return-Path: X-Original-To: netmod@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: netmod@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 57A141A0231 for ; Mon, 10 Nov 2014 10:08:26 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -15.095 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-15.095 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_HI=-5, RP_MATCHES_RCVD=-0.594, SPF_PASS=-0.001, USER_IN_DEF_DKIM_WL=-7.5] autolearn=ham Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id LwYgFJyMpPOg for ; Mon, 10 Nov 2014 10:08:24 -0800 (PST) Received: from rcdn-iport-4.cisco.com (rcdn-iport-4.cisco.com [173.37.86.75]) (using TLSv1 with cipher RC4-SHA (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id F3FFF1A1BD2 for ; Mon, 10 Nov 2014 10:08:23 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/simple; d=cisco.com; i=@cisco.com; l=1133; q=dns/txt; s=iport; t=1415642904; x=1416852504; h=from:to:cc:subject:date:message-id:references: in-reply-to:content-id:content-transfer-encoding: mime-version; bh=psCa3Uqf6mgTObNoPokxmf6Qj+dM/04jYa0fp8nJ7tg=; b=hapO8GUywg+4tVPqEwK218I41aSk4Kp5TFIZWR9htmThcmCnL1IysNO+ lw6UTHHJhtNDQj4phYnQ8uVgYYCu0hmLzwxAvn7GxxJlPLq1FxgVveaEz GZIEO0/psLawLs508tBKGj/kf9e6AlEHr01Ye8dTkafBuniFfqwRdPGXF g=; X-IronPort-Anti-Spam-Filtered: true X-IronPort-Anti-Spam-Result: AvEGAIf+YFStJV2R/2dsb2JhbABcgmsjVFkEy3uHTQKBJhYBAQEBAXILhAMBAQQ6PQIQAgEINhAyGwEGAwIEDgUJiDgBDM8bAQEBAQEBAQEBAQEBAQEBAQEBAQEYkRUHhEsFkjGEU4chgTQ9gxKRXYN6bAGBR4EDAQEB X-IronPort-AV: E=Sophos;i="5.07,354,1413244800"; d="scan'208";a="371012513" Received: from rcdn-core-9.cisco.com ([173.37.93.145]) by rcdn-iport-4.cisco.com with ESMTP; 10 Nov 2014 18:08:23 +0000 Received: from xhc-aln-x11.cisco.com (xhc-aln-x11.cisco.com [173.36.12.85]) by rcdn-core-9.cisco.com (8.14.5/8.14.5) with ESMTP id sAAI8Nsf025744 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=AES128-SHA bits=128 verify=FAIL); Mon, 10 Nov 2014 18:08:23 GMT Received: from xmb-aln-x13.cisco.com ([fe80::5404:b599:9f57:834b]) by xhc-aln-x11.cisco.com ([173.36.12.85]) with mapi id 14.03.0195.001; Mon, 10 Nov 2014 12:08:22 -0600 From: "Clyde Wildes (cwildes)" To: "netmod@ietf.org" Thread-Topic: New Version Notification for draft-ietf-netmod-syslog-model-00.txt Thread-Index: AQHP/RD0NqvSPm1stkGvws9SryQHFJxaBvaA Date: Mon, 10 Nov 2014 18:08:22 +0000 Message-ID: References: <20141110180542.13920.39689.idtracker@ietfa.amsl.com> In-Reply-To: <20141110180542.13920.39689.idtracker@ietfa.amsl.com> Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-originating-ip: [10.27.7.182] Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-ID: Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable MIME-Version: 1.0 Archived-At: http://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/netmod/nRzse4WnbnOa7FuNJ0MxelAc5lU Cc: Tom Nadeau Subject: [netmod] FW: New Version Notification for draft-ietf-netmod-syslog-model-00.txt X-BeenThere: netmod@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: NETMOD WG list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 10 Nov 2014 18:08:26 -0000 Tom, As requested I have uploaded the renamed Syslog model draft to the IETF repository. Thanks, Clyde On 11/10/14, 10:05 AM, "internet-drafts@ietf.org" wrote: > >A new version of I-D, draft-ietf-netmod-syslog-model-00.txt >has been successfully submitted by Clyde Wildes and posted to the >IETF repository. > >Name: draft-ietf-netmod-syslog-model >Revision: 00 >Title: SYSLOG YANG model >Document date: 2014-11-10 >Group: netmod >Pages: 21 >URL: =20 >http://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-ietf-netmod-syslog-model-00.txt >Status: =20 >https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-netmod-syslog-model/ >Htmlized: =20 >http://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-netmod-syslog-model-00 > > >Abstract: > This document describes a data model for Syslog > protocol which is used to convey event notification messages. > > =20 > =20 > > >Please note that it may take a couple of minutes from the time of >submission >until the htmlized version and diff are available at tools.ietf.org. > >The IETF Secretariat > From nobody Mon Nov 10 18:16:24 2014 Return-Path: X-Original-To: netmod@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: netmod@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id B40661AD428 for ; Mon, 10 Nov 2014 18:16:21 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -3.9 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-3.9 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, MIME_8BIT_HEADER=0.3, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-2.3, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 6TnvKhTs9sRk for ; Mon, 10 Nov 2014 18:16:20 -0800 (PST) Received: from sesbmg22.ericsson.net (sesbmg22.ericsson.net [193.180.251.48]) (using TLSv1 with cipher DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id B4B841AD418 for ; Mon, 10 Nov 2014 18:16:19 -0800 (PST) X-AuditID: c1b4fb30-f79e66d000000ff1-8e-54617171613e Received: from ESESSHC020.ericsson.se (Unknown_Domain [153.88.253.124]) by sesbmg22.ericsson.net (Symantec Mail Security) with SMTP id 63.C2.04081.17171645; Tue, 11 Nov 2014 03:16:17 +0100 (CET) Received: from ESESSMB103.ericsson.se ([169.254.3.192]) by ESESSHC020.ericsson.se ([153.88.183.78]) with mapi id 14.03.0174.001; Tue, 11 Nov 2014 03:16:17 +0100 From: =?iso-8859-1?Q?Bal=E1zs_Lengyel?= To: "netmod@ietf.org" Thread-Topic: Findings from the Sunday Netmod session Thread-Index: Ac/9VB1uZ/HK3lBrSg+dSoJCkWKTdA== Date: Tue, 11 Nov 2014 02:16:16 +0000 Message-ID: <971D4B790EC8B846BE223DD23AF72FF11EBEB1BF@ESESSMB103.ericsson.se> Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-originating-ip: [153.88.183.148] Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="_000_971D4B790EC8B846BE223DD23AF72FF11EBEB1BFESESSMB103erics_" MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Brightmail-Tracker: H4sIAAAAAAAAA+NgFrrOLMWRmVeSWpSXmKPExsUyM+JvjW5hYWKIwbt1lhbzLzayOjB6LFny kymAMYrLJiU1J7MstUjfLoEro//GJMaCzcoVB9/uZmpg/CzXxcjJISFgIvHmw3Y2CFtM4sK9 9WC2kMARRomXa4K7GLmA7CWMEi8a34El2ARcJY59+s4CYosIqEvM3AnRICxgIHH98B5GiLip xPrF59khbD2J61PeMIPYLAKqEvs72sB6eQV8JX48WQ8WZwRa/P3UGiYQm1lAXOLWk/lMEAcJ SCzZc54ZwhaVePn4HyuErSTRuOQJK0R9vsSl3nfsEDMFJU7OfMIygVFoFpJRs5CUzUJSBhHX k7gxdQobhK0tsWzha2YIW1dixr9DLMjiCxjZVzGKFqcWJ+WmGxnppRZlJhcX5+fp5aWWbGIE xsTBLb8NdjC+fO54iFGAg1GJh/fDx/gQIdbEsuLK3EOM0hwsSuK8C8/NCxYSSE8sSc1OTS1I LYovKs1JLT7EyMTBKdXA2MmTKSbyPO/uzMNzcmaLcDO86A9+3eGicDPN6Qpv60tm/oO/L0xS frbvhITsfvnwv19Ovlqk+uWPVbcN74EPrTMvWkUJzd0x8fNuv+B1ggf3PDkVsm/l2Tf31vtM D/Y8++UZ1/xD1jP/7q9PSWHnFdhmJBOwMFfojvbhnY+edU1reKlf5ZB7mV+JpTgj0VCLuag4 EQD2k7u5agIAAA== Archived-At: http://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/netmod/pheWJxO77I4I1Cv4om47_oHWaMY Subject: [netmod] Findings from the Sunday Netmod session X-BeenThere: netmod@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: NETMOD WG list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 11 Nov 2014 02:16:21 -0000 --_000_971D4B790EC8B846BE223DD23AF72FF11EBEB1BFESESSMB103erics_ Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hello, Here are my findings from the Sunday YANG sessions: Add to RFC 69991: adminState, operState Add to RFC6087bis: For referencing YANG data nodes use leafref or instance-identifier. Referen= cing using a simple integer or string is not recommended. It is not recommended (or recommended?) to define value statements for enu= merations unless there is a clear use case for it. Way of working: When defining new models, look around for overlapping models. Architecture: A model should describe where it will be deployed: in a network node, in a = controller, in a management server, etc. For models deployed in a controller or management server (anywhere not on t= he network device) should describe, how and when the data model is/should b= e updated based on data from the network device. For layered configurations (node/network/service), how do we avoid duplicat= ion? Balazs --_000_971D4B790EC8B846BE223DD23AF72FF11EBEB1BFESESSMB103erics_ Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

Hello,

Here are my findings from the Sunday YANG sessions:<= o:p>

Add to RFC 69991:

adminState, operState

 

Add to RFC6087bis:

For referencing YANG data nodes use leafref or insta= nce-identifier. Referencing using a simple integer or string is not recomme= nded.

It is not recommended (or recommended?) to define va= lue statements for  enumerations unless there is a clear use case for = it.

 

Way of working:

When defining new models, look around for overlappin= g models.

 

Architecture:

A model should describe where it will be deployed: i= n a network node, in a controller, in a management server, etc.<= /p>

For models deployed in a controller or management se= rver (anywhere not on the network device) should describe, how and when the= data model is/should be updated based on data from the network device.

For layered configurations (node/network/service), h= ow do we avoid duplication?

 

Balazs

--_000_971D4B790EC8B846BE223DD23AF72FF11EBEB1BFESESSMB103erics_-- From nobody Mon Nov 10 18:16:33 2014 Return-Path: X-Original-To: netmod@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: netmod@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 029CB1AD42F for ; Mon, 10 Nov 2014 18:16:31 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.245 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.245 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, HELO_EQ_CZ=0.445, HOST_EQ_CZ=0.904, RP_MATCHES_RCVD=-0.594] autolearn=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id lJjXqLuj7W3r for ; Mon, 10 Nov 2014 18:16:28 -0800 (PST) Received: from mail.nic.cz (mail.nic.cz [IPv6:2001:1488:800:400::400]) (using TLSv1 with cipher ADH-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 1998A1AD433 for ; Mon, 10 Nov 2014 18:16:24 -0800 (PST) Received: from t2001067c0370016000a4ba5fd2d7843f.wireless.v6.meeting.ietf.org (t2001067c0370016000a4ba5fd2d7843f.wireless.v6.meeting.ietf.org [IPv6:2001:67c:370:160:a4:ba5f:d2d7:843f]) by mail.nic.cz (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id E4FCE13FE09 for ; Tue, 11 Nov 2014 03:16:21 +0100 (CET) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=simple/simple; d=nic.cz; s=default; t=1415672182; bh=m3gIQMJBup19Az36+ynGIZnz/kFuwtLAAjwWB7DHyy8=; h=From:Content-Type:Content-Transfer-Encoding:Subject:Message-Id: Date:To:Mime-Version; b=cfMrT+fgxduGiRv2nMuGfVN0ewkdWOon3CZ/HuGHjSGdEa9H8LCFfHwn0C5R0zc83 wyt6s4A+b9+nAVfnO780UucJ/CLaVRkggl4qI1UYt+5ciJbMfKoI/VOmWDyVE8ZiU5 lF5D2qpqsqyZfzdMOwo0NU4Rne0SttmIl9IjpEzQ= From: Ladislav Lhotka Content-Type: text/plain; charset=windows-1252 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Message-Id: <99C7547B-10B7-47C3-8B53-499F3E801F96@nic.cz> Date: Mon, 10 Nov 2014 16:16:16 -1000 To: NETMOD Working Group Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 7.3 \(1878.6\)) X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.1878.6) X-Virus-Scanned: clamav-milter 0.98.1 at mail X-Virus-Status: Clean Archived-At: http://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/netmod/k65_mD6IjxH6vDlsJwawzWGfnnI Subject: [netmod] Y42 again X-BeenThere: netmod@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: NETMOD WG list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 11 Nov 2014 02:16:31 -0000 Hi, one of the strong inputs I received from Sue Hares during the YANG = Advice session on Sunday was that NETMOD should find a general solution = to their ephemeral config issue. I personally believe a solution based on synchronizing another datastore = with running has fundamental flaws, and I also don=92t get how mount = could help with it. In a more general setting, I think it boils down to configuration = protocols that bypass running. If it=92s not I2RS, it could be something = else, e.g. HNCP. And although it was YANG 1.1 issue Y42 that tried to = address this problem, maybe the core of the poodle is the (hidden) = NETCONF assumption that parameters in running config are those that the = system actually uses in operation. We agreed to move Y42 to DEAD, and I don=92t have any complete solution, = but I have a gut feeling that this issue will keep recurring. Shouldn=92t = we try to address it after all? Lada -- Ladislav Lhotka, CZ.NIC Labs PGP Key ID: E74E8C0C From nobody Tue Nov 11 11:28:18 2014 Return-Path: X-Original-To: netmod@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: netmod@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 17D621A87AE for ; Tue, 11 Nov 2014 11:28:17 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.144 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.144 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, HELO_EQ_DE=0.35, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, RP_MATCHES_RCVD=-0.594] autolearn=ham Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id mgIOksYPWCZh for ; Tue, 11 Nov 2014 11:28:15 -0800 (PST) Received: from atlas3.jacobs-university.de (atlas3.jacobs-university.de [212.201.44.18]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher AECDH-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 5BF6B1A6FB0 for ; Tue, 11 Nov 2014 11:28:15 -0800 (PST) Received: from localhost (demetrius5.irc-it.jacobs-university.de [10.70.0.222]) by atlas3.jacobs-university.de (Postfix) with ESMTP id 220EF6FD; Tue, 11 Nov 2014 20:28:14 +0100 (CET) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at jacobs-university.de Received: from atlas3.jacobs-university.de ([10.70.0.220]) by localhost (demetrius5.jacobs-university.de [10.70.0.222]) (amavisd-new, port 10030) with ESMTP id GxT5Y9eln93I; Tue, 11 Nov 2014 20:28:03 +0100 (CET) Received: from hermes.jacobs-university.de (hermes.jacobs-university.de [212.201.44.23]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (Client CN "hermes.jacobs-university.de", Issuer "Jacobs University CA - G01" (verified OK)) by atlas3.jacobs-university.de (Postfix) with ESMTPS; Tue, 11 Nov 2014 20:28:13 +0100 (CET) Received: from localhost (demetrius1.jacobs-university.de [212.201.44.46]) by hermes.jacobs-university.de (Postfix) with ESMTP id CDDA120017; Tue, 11 Nov 2014 20:28:12 +0100 (CET) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at jacobs-university.de Received: from hermes.jacobs-university.de ([212.201.44.23]) by localhost (demetrius1.jacobs-university.de [212.201.44.32]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id Duk3wLdL-rY9; Tue, 11 Nov 2014 20:28:11 +0100 (CET) Received: from elstar.local (elstar.jacobs.jacobs-university.de [10.50.231.133]) by hermes.jacobs-university.de (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6125A20013; Tue, 11 Nov 2014 20:28:11 +0100 (CET) Received: by elstar.local (Postfix, from userid 501) id 66FB92F7C176; Tue, 11 Nov 2014 20:28:10 +0100 (CET) Date: Tue, 11 Nov 2014 20:28:09 +0100 From: Juergen Schoenwaelder To: Ladislav Lhotka Message-ID: <20141111192809.GA51909@elstar.local> Mail-Followup-To: Ladislav Lhotka , NETMOD Working Group References: <99C7547B-10B7-47C3-8B53-499F3E801F96@nic.cz> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit In-Reply-To: <99C7547B-10B7-47C3-8B53-499F3E801F96@nic.cz> User-Agent: Mutt/1.4.2.3i Archived-At: http://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/netmod/juONIfyxp2X75eM8jPbiCK5DQG8 Cc: NETMOD Working Group Subject: Re: [netmod] Y42 again X-BeenThere: netmod@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list Reply-To: Juergen Schoenwaelder List-Id: NETMOD WG list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 11 Nov 2014 19:28:17 -0000 I believe this issue is DEAD until I2RS has figured out what they want and it is clear this requires any work to be done for _YANG_1.1_. This is what the issue tracker says: 2014-10-15 meeting proposal: move Y42 to DEAD since there is nothing actionable to do until I2RS has decided what they need; once this happens, we can reopen this issue or add more concrete issues (which may be a better choice). My goal is to complete YANG 1.1 in a reasonable time. After more than a half day of discussion of I2RS issues and ephemeral datastores in particular at the New York NETMOD interim, we concluded that ephemeral datastores do not require any YANG 1.1 changes. So it seems reasonable to close this issue. /js On Mon, Nov 10, 2014 at 04:16:16PM -1000, Ladislav Lhotka wrote: > Hi, > > one of the strong inputs I received from Sue Hares during the YANG Advice session on Sunday was that NETMOD should find a general solution to their ephemeral config issue. > > I personally believe a solution based on synchronizing another datastore with running has fundamental flaws, and I also don’t get how mount could help with it. > > In a more general setting, I think it boils down to configuration protocols that bypass running. If it’s not I2RS, it could be something else, e.g. HNCP. And although it was YANG 1.1 issue Y42 that tried to address this problem, maybe the core of the poodle is the (hidden) NETCONF assumption that parameters in running config are those that the system actually uses in operation. > > We agreed to move Y42 to DEAD, and I don’t have any complete solution, but I have a gut feeling that this issue will keep recurring. Shouldn’t we try to address it after all? > > Lada > > -- > Ladislav Lhotka, CZ.NIC Labs > PGP Key ID: E74E8C0C > > > > > _______________________________________________ > netmod mailing list > netmod@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/netmod -- Juergen Schoenwaelder Jacobs University Bremen gGmbH Phone: +49 421 200 3587 Campus Ring 1, 28759 Bremen, Germany Fax: +49 421 200 3103 From nobody Tue Nov 11 11:36:31 2014 Return-Path: X-Original-To: netmod@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: netmod@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 06D4B1A8834; Tue, 11 Nov 2014 11:36:21 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.9 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.9 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9] autolearn=ham Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id IyEzCP-7dZmo; Tue, 11 Nov 2014 11:36:20 -0800 (PST) Received: from ietfa.amsl.com (localhost [IPv6:::1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6299F1A87E7; Tue, 11 Nov 2014 11:36:20 -0800 (PST) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: internet-drafts@ietf.org To: i-d-announce@ietf.org X-Test-IDTracker: no X-IETF-IDTracker: 5.7.2.p1 Auto-Submitted: auto-generated Precedence: bulk Message-ID: <20141111193620.31357.35628.idtracker@ietfa.amsl.com> Date: Tue, 11 Nov 2014 11:36:20 -0800 Archived-At: http://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/netmod/bF63iiNNIjLd9RJYM920Qk9yWr0 Cc: netmod@ietf.org Subject: [netmod] I-D Action: draft-ietf-netmod-acl-model-00.txt X-BeenThere: netmod@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 List-Id: NETMOD WG list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 11 Nov 2014 19:36:22 -0000 A New Internet-Draft is available from the on-line Internet-Drafts directories. This draft is a work item of the NETCONF Data Modeling Language Working Group of the IETF. Title : Network Access Control List (ACL) YANG Data Model Authors : Dean Bogdanovic Kiran Agrahara Sreenivasa Lisa Huang Dana Blair Filename : draft-ietf-netmod-acl-model-00.txt Pages : 23 Date : 2014-11-10 Abstract: This document describes a data model of Access Control List (ACL) basic building blocks. The IETF datatracker status page for this draft is: https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-netmod-acl-model/ There's also a htmlized version available at: http://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-netmod-acl-model-00 Please note that it may take a couple of minutes from the time of submission until the htmlized version and diff are available at tools.ietf.org. Internet-Drafts are also available by anonymous FTP at: ftp://ftp.ietf.org/internet-drafts/ From nobody Tue Nov 11 11:48:47 2014 Return-Path: X-Original-To: netmod@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: netmod@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id E67051A8911 for ; Tue, 11 Nov 2014 11:48:43 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -0.945 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-0.945 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, HELO_EQ_CZ=0.445, HOST_EQ_CZ=0.904, MIME_8BIT_HEADER=0.3, RP_MATCHES_RCVD=-0.594] autolearn=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 7-sj36wG0_T1 for ; Tue, 11 Nov 2014 11:48:42 -0800 (PST) Received: from mail.nic.cz (mail.nic.cz [IPv6:2001:1488:800:400::400]) (using TLSv1 with cipher ADH-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id E89821A89A2 for ; Tue, 11 Nov 2014 11:48:22 -0800 (PST) Received: from t2001067c037001601076d929c8e2d35a.wireless.v6.meeting.ietf.org (t2001067c037001601076d929c8e2d35a.wireless.v6.meeting.ietf.org [IPv6:2001:67c:370:160:1076:d929:c8e2:d35a]) by mail.nic.cz (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 0DA8113F98D; Tue, 11 Nov 2014 20:48:19 +0100 (CET) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=simple/simple; d=nic.cz; s=default; t=1415735301; bh=Pwm8ei2jncfo4UL4IX+VzTamShyQIUrAs+AI4TrR/l8=; h=Content-Type:Mime-Version:Subject:From:In-Reply-To:Date:Cc: Content-Transfer-Encoding:Message-Id:References:To; b=PgUJk6hQ/JReanGmjc+cc/8t1hTdZC9RfwXYeMC8BiOsH99XdhY9WsgbC5N+k3fKy AykzWRenisocAVHR7HQOtzWWFlSWKWg43I1t7rhNS0vt7waHO6j5JwaJs1uP5uPu1G KDtXK3Eda+1OLxcRQaJT+mtvP5btQkDB4Wv/xYHE= Content-Type: text/plain; charset=windows-1252 Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 7.3 \(1878.6\)) From: Ladislav Lhotka In-Reply-To: <20141111192809.GA51909@elstar.local> Date: Tue, 11 Nov 2014 09:48:16 -1000 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Message-Id: References: <99C7547B-10B7-47C3-8B53-499F3E801F96@nic.cz> <20141111192809.GA51909@elstar.local> To: =?windows-1252?Q?J=FCrgen_Sch=F6nw=E4lder?= X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.1878.6) X-Virus-Scanned: clamav-milter 0.98.1 at mail X-Virus-Status: Clean Archived-At: http://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/netmod/VRfjoTaWbnOEkhl7H4yOBIryagM Cc: NETMOD Working Group Subject: Re: [netmod] Y42 again X-BeenThere: netmod@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: NETMOD WG list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 11 Nov 2014 19:48:44 -0000 On 11 Nov 2014, at 09:28, Juergen Schoenwaelder = wrote: > I believe this issue is DEAD until I2RS has figured out what they want > and it is clear this requires any work to be done for _YANG_1.1_. This > is what the issue tracker says: The thing is that 1. I2RS folks know what they want, the problem is how to implement it so = that it plays well together with NETCONF. I think this cannot be easily = done without reconsidering some essential assumptions behind YANG and = NETCONF, namely that NETCONF has no monopoly on configuration. 2. The issue is not I2RS-specific and Y42 wasn=92t meant so. Look at = current developments, e.g. in homenet or anima - we will have the same = problem back before long. And the problem is: configuration protocols and channels that bypass = running datastore and follow their own rules. Lada >=20 > 2014-10-15 meeting proposal: move Y42 to DEAD since there is > nothing actionable to do until I2RS has decided what they need; > once this happens, we can reopen this issue or add more concrete > issues (which may be a better choice). >=20 > My goal is to complete YANG 1.1 in a reasonable time. After more than > a half day of discussion of I2RS issues and ephemeral datastores in > particular at the New York NETMOD interim, we concluded that ephemeral > datastores do not require any YANG 1.1 changes. So it seems reasonable > to close this issue. >=20 > /js >=20 > On Mon, Nov 10, 2014 at 04:16:16PM -1000, Ladislav Lhotka wrote: >> Hi, >>=20 >> one of the strong inputs I received from Sue Hares during the YANG = Advice session on Sunday was that NETMOD should find a general solution = to their ephemeral config issue. >>=20 >> I personally believe a solution based on synchronizing another = datastore with running has fundamental flaws, and I also don=92t get how = mount could help with it. >>=20 >> In a more general setting, I think it boils down to configuration = protocols that bypass running. If it=92s not I2RS, it could be something = else, e.g. HNCP. And although it was YANG 1.1 issue Y42 that tried to = address this problem, maybe the core of the poodle is the (hidden) = NETCONF assumption that parameters in running config are those that the = system actually uses in operation. >>=20 >> We agreed to move Y42 to DEAD, and I don=92t have any complete = solution, but I have a gut feeling that this issue will keep recurring. = Shouldn=92t we try to address it after all? >>=20 >> Lada >>=20 >> -- >> Ladislav Lhotka, CZ.NIC Labs >> PGP Key ID: E74E8C0C >>=20 >>=20 >>=20 >>=20 >> _______________________________________________ >> netmod mailing list >> netmod@ietf.org >> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/netmod >=20 > --=20 > Juergen Schoenwaelder Jacobs University Bremen gGmbH > Phone: +49 421 200 3587 Campus Ring 1, 28759 Bremen, Germany > Fax: +49 421 200 3103 -- Ladislav Lhotka, CZ.NIC Labs PGP Key ID: E74E8C0C From nobody Tue Nov 11 12:04:17 2014 Return-Path: X-Original-To: netmod@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: netmod@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9F0EF1A1B5E for ; Tue, 11 Nov 2014 12:04:15 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.144 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.144 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, HELO_EQ_DE=0.35, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, RP_MATCHES_RCVD=-0.594] autolearn=ham Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id DDNx91Dg2f28 for ; Tue, 11 Nov 2014 12:04:14 -0800 (PST) Received: from atlas3.jacobs-university.de (atlas3.jacobs-university.de [212.201.44.18]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher AECDH-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id B22E31A1AC7 for ; Tue, 11 Nov 2014 12:04:13 -0800 (PST) Received: from localhost (demetrius5.irc-it.jacobs-university.de [10.70.0.222]) by atlas3.jacobs-university.de (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7EE44E57; Tue, 11 Nov 2014 21:04:12 +0100 (CET) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at jacobs-university.de Received: from atlas3.jacobs-university.de ([10.70.0.220]) by localhost (demetrius5.jacobs-university.de [10.70.0.222]) (amavisd-new, port 10030) with ESMTP id N5wTwSguQgWg; Tue, 11 Nov 2014 21:04:01 +0100 (CET) Received: from hermes.jacobs-university.de (hermes.jacobs-university.de [212.201.44.23]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (Client CN "hermes.jacobs-university.de", Issuer "Jacobs University CA - G01" (verified OK)) by atlas3.jacobs-university.de (Postfix) with ESMTPS; Tue, 11 Nov 2014 21:04:11 +0100 (CET) Received: from localhost (demetrius4.jacobs-university.de [212.201.44.49]) by hermes.jacobs-university.de (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6F7DF20013; Tue, 11 Nov 2014 21:04:11 +0100 (CET) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at jacobs-university.de Received: from hermes.jacobs-university.de ([212.201.44.23]) by localhost (demetrius4.jacobs-university.de [212.201.44.32]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 09tjJK3JrFbN; Tue, 11 Nov 2014 21:04:10 +0100 (CET) Received: from elstar.local (elstar.jacobs.jacobs-university.de [10.50.231.133]) by hermes.jacobs-university.de (Postfix) with ESMTP id C97342002C; Tue, 11 Nov 2014 21:04:09 +0100 (CET) Received: by elstar.local (Postfix, from userid 501) id B64A12F7C22B; Tue, 11 Nov 2014 21:04:09 +0100 (CET) Date: Tue, 11 Nov 2014 21:04:09 +0100 From: Juergen Schoenwaelder To: Ladislav Lhotka Message-ID: <20141111200409.GA52088@elstar.local> Mail-Followup-To: Ladislav Lhotka , NETMOD Working Group References: <99C7547B-10B7-47C3-8B53-499F3E801F96@nic.cz> <20141111192809.GA51909@elstar.local> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit In-Reply-To: User-Agent: Mutt/1.4.2.3i Archived-At: http://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/netmod/Okqe-3f-SPFjVEtrwweIhBCR_v8 Cc: NETMOD Working Group Subject: Re: [netmod] Y42 again X-BeenThere: netmod@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list Reply-To: Juergen Schoenwaelder List-Id: NETMOD WG list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 11 Nov 2014 20:04:15 -0000 Lada, I probably have not been clear enough: I am looking for an official I2RS WG consensus statment what I2RS needs from NETMOD. I have not received such a statement nor have I seen activity on the I2RS mailing list recently indicating that this is just around the corner. We have other YANG 1.1 OPEN issues to work on at this point in time. /js On Tue, Nov 11, 2014 at 09:48:16AM -1000, Ladislav Lhotka wrote: > > On 11 Nov 2014, at 09:28, Juergen Schoenwaelder wrote: > > > I believe this issue is DEAD until I2RS has figured out what they want > > and it is clear this requires any work to be done for _YANG_1.1_. This > > is what the issue tracker says: > > The thing is that > > 1. I2RS folks know what they want, the problem is how to implement it so that it plays well together with NETCONF. I think this cannot be easily done without reconsidering some essential assumptions behind YANG and NETCONF, namely that NETCONF has no monopoly on configuration. > > 2. The issue is not I2RS-specific and Y42 wasn’t meant so. Look at current developments, e.g. in homenet or anima - we will have the same problem back before long. > > And the problem is: configuration protocols and channels that bypass running datastore and follow their own rules. > > Lada > > > > > 2014-10-15 meeting proposal: move Y42 to DEAD since there is > > nothing actionable to do until I2RS has decided what they need; > > once this happens, we can reopen this issue or add more concrete > > issues (which may be a better choice). > > > > My goal is to complete YANG 1.1 in a reasonable time. After more than > > a half day of discussion of I2RS issues and ephemeral datastores in > > particular at the New York NETMOD interim, we concluded that ephemeral > > datastores do not require any YANG 1.1 changes. So it seems reasonable > > to close this issue. > > > > /js > > > > On Mon, Nov 10, 2014 at 04:16:16PM -1000, Ladislav Lhotka wrote: > >> Hi, > >> > >> one of the strong inputs I received from Sue Hares during the YANG Advice session on Sunday was that NETMOD should find a general solution to their ephemeral config issue. > >> > >> I personally believe a solution based on synchronizing another datastore with running has fundamental flaws, and I also don’t get how mount could help with it. > >> > >> In a more general setting, I think it boils down to configuration protocols that bypass running. If it’s not I2RS, it could be something else, e.g. HNCP. And although it was YANG 1.1 issue Y42 that tried to address this problem, maybe the core of the poodle is the (hidden) NETCONF assumption that parameters in running config are those that the system actually uses in operation. > >> > >> We agreed to move Y42 to DEAD, and I don’t have any complete solution, but I have a gut feeling that this issue will keep recurring. Shouldn’t we try to address it after all? > >> > >> Lada > >> > >> -- > >> Ladislav Lhotka, CZ.NIC Labs > >> PGP Key ID: E74E8C0C > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> _______________________________________________ > >> netmod mailing list > >> netmod@ietf.org > >> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/netmod > > > > -- > > Juergen Schoenwaelder Jacobs University Bremen gGmbH > > Phone: +49 421 200 3587 Campus Ring 1, 28759 Bremen, Germany > > Fax: +49 421 200 3103 > > -- > Ladislav Lhotka, CZ.NIC Labs > PGP Key ID: E74E8C0C > > > > -- Juergen Schoenwaelder Jacobs University Bremen gGmbH Phone: +49 421 200 3587 Campus Ring 1, 28759 Bremen, Germany Fax: +49 421 200 3103 From nobody Tue Nov 11 12:16:31 2014 Return-Path: X-Original-To: netmod@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: netmod@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7457A1A8ADD for ; Tue, 11 Nov 2014 12:16:24 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -0.945 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-0.945 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, HELO_EQ_CZ=0.445, HOST_EQ_CZ=0.904, MIME_8BIT_HEADER=0.3, RP_MATCHES_RCVD=-0.594] autolearn=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id eGVtfn0h84ti for ; Tue, 11 Nov 2014 12:16:23 -0800 (PST) Received: from mail.nic.cz (mail.nic.cz [IPv6:2001:1488:800:400::400]) (using TLSv1 with cipher ADH-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id BE97B1A9082 for ; Tue, 11 Nov 2014 12:15:22 -0800 (PST) Received: from t2001067c037001601076d929c8e2d35a.wireless.v6.meeting.ietf.org (t2001067c037001601076d929c8e2d35a.wireless.v6.meeting.ietf.org [IPv6:2001:67c:370:160:1076:d929:c8e2:d35a]) by mail.nic.cz (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 56CBA13F98D; Tue, 11 Nov 2014 21:15:19 +0100 (CET) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=simple/simple; d=nic.cz; s=default; t=1415736921; bh=6lCc5rXWy+t7gMFPTvQiFMZKyDpQK800/H5gXzTNmx8=; h=Content-Type:Mime-Version:Subject:From:In-Reply-To:Date:Cc: Content-Transfer-Encoding:Message-Id:References:To; b=hQM74MWKdVaUglhSdxQLlFhBo6bI/5cd/6jCW09ThzPbIzIAAs/gc1E41p8rNRN8e nu+g+nAJibUfETj9CSJ36z36nkkJiK9eCgIIsa1HLRdH5AowwmWAG/hsj8Ygkn57P1 HNnsG7FSoYaNhf/3YtUkiVIPF9fIujLF7yDFwJBw= Content-Type: text/plain; charset=windows-1252 Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 7.3 \(1878.6\)) From: Ladislav Lhotka In-Reply-To: <20141111200409.GA52088@elstar.local> Date: Tue, 11 Nov 2014 10:15:16 -1000 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Message-Id: <3EA8D92F-D3B9-4D9D-B151-466D1208323E@nic.cz> References: <99C7547B-10B7-47C3-8B53-499F3E801F96@nic.cz> <20141111192809.GA51909@elstar.local> <20141111200409.GA52088@elstar.local> To: =?windows-1252?Q?J=FCrgen_Sch=F6nw=E4lder?= X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.1878.6) X-Virus-Scanned: clamav-milter 0.98.1 at mail X-Virus-Status: Clean Archived-At: http://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/netmod/sSxLJOfdN8djfV9pDlTO_fr0EA4 Cc: NETMOD Working Group Subject: Re: [netmod] Y42 again X-BeenThere: netmod@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: NETMOD WG list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 11 Nov 2014 20:16:24 -0000 On 11 Nov 2014, at 10:04, Juergen Schoenwaelder = wrote: > Lada, >=20 > I probably have not been clear enough: I am looking for an official > I2RS WG consensus statment what I2RS needs from NETMOD. I have not > received such a statement nor have I seen activity on the I2RS mailing > list recently indicating that this is just around the corner. It was you who restricted Y42 to I2RS requirements. Lada >=20 > We have other YANG 1.1 OPEN issues to work on at this point in time. >=20 > /js >=20 > On Tue, Nov 11, 2014 at 09:48:16AM -1000, Ladislav Lhotka wrote: >>=20 >> On 11 Nov 2014, at 09:28, Juergen Schoenwaelder = wrote: >>=20 >>> I believe this issue is DEAD until I2RS has figured out what they = want >>> and it is clear this requires any work to be done for _YANG_1.1_. = This >>> is what the issue tracker says: >>=20 >> The thing is that >>=20 >> 1. I2RS folks know what they want, the problem is how to implement it = so that it plays well together with NETCONF. I think this cannot be = easily done without reconsidering some essential assumptions behind YANG = and NETCONF, namely that NETCONF has no monopoly on configuration. >>=20 >> 2. The issue is not I2RS-specific and Y42 wasn=92t meant so. Look at = current developments, e.g. in homenet or anima - we will have the same = problem back before long. >>=20 >> And the problem is: configuration protocols and channels that bypass = running datastore and follow their own rules. >>=20 >> Lada >>=20 >>>=20 >>> 2014-10-15 meeting proposal: move Y42 to DEAD since there is >>> nothing actionable to do until I2RS has decided what they need; >>> once this happens, we can reopen this issue or add more concrete >>> issues (which may be a better choice). >>>=20 >>> My goal is to complete YANG 1.1 in a reasonable time. After more = than >>> a half day of discussion of I2RS issues and ephemeral datastores in >>> particular at the New York NETMOD interim, we concluded that = ephemeral >>> datastores do not require any YANG 1.1 changes. So it seems = reasonable >>> to close this issue. >>>=20 >>> /js >>>=20 >>> On Mon, Nov 10, 2014 at 04:16:16PM -1000, Ladislav Lhotka wrote: >>>> Hi, >>>>=20 >>>> one of the strong inputs I received from Sue Hares during the YANG = Advice session on Sunday was that NETMOD should find a general solution = to their ephemeral config issue. >>>>=20 >>>> I personally believe a solution based on synchronizing another = datastore with running has fundamental flaws, and I also don=92t get how = mount could help with it. >>>>=20 >>>> In a more general setting, I think it boils down to configuration = protocols that bypass running. If it=92s not I2RS, it could be something = else, e.g. HNCP. And although it was YANG 1.1 issue Y42 that tried to = address this problem, maybe the core of the poodle is the (hidden) = NETCONF assumption that parameters in running config are those that the = system actually uses in operation. >>>>=20 >>>> We agreed to move Y42 to DEAD, and I don=92t have any complete = solution, but I have a gut feeling that this issue will keep recurring. = Shouldn=92t we try to address it after all? >>>>=20 >>>> Lada >>>>=20 >>>> -- >>>> Ladislav Lhotka, CZ.NIC Labs >>>> PGP Key ID: E74E8C0C >>>>=20 >>>>=20 >>>>=20 >>>>=20 >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> netmod mailing list >>>> netmod@ietf.org >>>> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/netmod >>>=20 >>> --=20 >>> Juergen Schoenwaelder Jacobs University Bremen gGmbH >>> Phone: +49 421 200 3587 Campus Ring 1, 28759 Bremen, Germany >>> Fax: +49 421 200 3103 >>=20 >> -- >> Ladislav Lhotka, CZ.NIC Labs >> PGP Key ID: E74E8C0C >>=20 >>=20 >>=20 >>=20 >=20 > --=20 > Juergen Schoenwaelder Jacobs University Bremen gGmbH > Phone: +49 421 200 3587 Campus Ring 1, 28759 Bremen, Germany > Fax: +49 421 200 3103 -- Ladislav Lhotka, CZ.NIC Labs PGP Key ID: E74E8C0C From nobody Tue Nov 11 12:24:04 2014 Return-Path: X-Original-To: netmod@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: netmod@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id B464D1A19F9 for ; Tue, 11 Nov 2014 12:23:58 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.144 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.144 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, HELO_EQ_DE=0.35, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, RP_MATCHES_RCVD=-0.594] autolearn=ham Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id jayfKDL5Abs4 for ; Tue, 11 Nov 2014 12:23:53 -0800 (PST) Received: from atlas3.jacobs-university.de (atlas3.jacobs-university.de [212.201.44.18]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher AECDH-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id A66391A014C for ; Tue, 11 Nov 2014 12:23:53 -0800 (PST) Received: from localhost (demetrius5.irc-it.jacobs-university.de [10.70.0.222]) by atlas3.jacobs-university.de (Postfix) with ESMTP id 753ABE57; Tue, 11 Nov 2014 21:23:52 +0100 (CET) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at jacobs-university.de Received: from atlas3.jacobs-university.de ([10.70.0.220]) by localhost (demetrius5.jacobs-university.de [10.70.0.222]) (amavisd-new, port 10030) with ESMTP id XuymaOTAgHmY; Tue, 11 Nov 2014 21:23:41 +0100 (CET) Received: from hermes.jacobs-university.de (hermes.jacobs-university.de [212.201.44.23]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (Client CN "hermes.jacobs-university.de", Issuer "Jacobs University CA - G01" (verified OK)) by atlas3.jacobs-university.de (Postfix) with ESMTPS; Tue, 11 Nov 2014 21:23:51 +0100 (CET) Received: from localhost (demetrius4.jacobs-university.de [212.201.44.49]) by hermes.jacobs-university.de (Postfix) with ESMTP id A809F20017; Tue, 11 Nov 2014 21:23:51 +0100 (CET) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at jacobs-university.de Received: from hermes.jacobs-university.de ([212.201.44.23]) by localhost (demetrius4.jacobs-university.de [212.201.44.32]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id rMMxmnH5OBZZ; Tue, 11 Nov 2014 21:23:51 +0100 (CET) Received: from elstar.local (elstar.jacobs.jacobs-university.de [10.50.231.133]) by hermes.jacobs-university.de (Postfix) with ESMTP id D4D9620013; Tue, 11 Nov 2014 21:23:50 +0100 (CET) Received: by elstar.local (Postfix, from userid 501) id C20432F7C384; Tue, 11 Nov 2014 21:23:50 +0100 (CET) Date: Tue, 11 Nov 2014 21:23:50 +0100 From: Juergen Schoenwaelder To: Ladislav Lhotka Message-ID: <20141111202350.GE52088@elstar.local> Mail-Followup-To: Ladislav Lhotka , NETMOD Working Group References: <99C7547B-10B7-47C3-8B53-499F3E801F96@nic.cz> <20141111192809.GA51909@elstar.local> <20141111200409.GA52088@elstar.local> <3EA8D92F-D3B9-4D9D-B151-466D1208323E@nic.cz> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <3EA8D92F-D3B9-4D9D-B151-466D1208323E@nic.cz> User-Agent: Mutt/1.4.2.3i Archived-At: http://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/netmod/_Hu8-GzGb3yuFDQRCX5Aexc-clM Cc: NETMOD Working Group Subject: Re: [netmod] Y42 again X-BeenThere: netmod@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list Reply-To: Juergen Schoenwaelder List-Id: NETMOD WG list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 11 Nov 2014 20:23:58 -0000 On Tue, Nov 11, 2014 at 10:15:16AM -1000, Ladislav Lhotka wrote: > > On 11 Nov 2014, at 10:04, Juergen Schoenwaelder wrote: > > > Lada, > > > > I probably have not been clear enough: I am looking for an official > > I2RS WG consensus statment what I2RS needs from NETMOD. I have not > > received such a statement nor have I seen activity on the I2RS mailing > > list recently indicating that this is just around the corner. > > It was you who restricted Y42 to I2RS requirements. I am restricting this to YANG 1.1. I am not interested to solve issues for protocols that may be invented in the future. I am not interested to solve NETCONF/YANG architectural issues that span well beyond YANG 1.1 under the hood of Y42. /js -- Juergen Schoenwaelder Jacobs University Bremen gGmbH Phone: +49 421 200 3587 Campus Ring 1, 28759 Bremen, Germany Fax: +49 421 200 3103 From nobody Tue Nov 11 18:58:16 2014 Return-Path: X-Original-To: netmod@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: netmod@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3102A1A1BB9; Tue, 11 Nov 2014 18:58:15 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -15.095 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-15.095 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_HI=-5, RP_MATCHES_RCVD=-0.594, SPF_PASS=-0.001, USER_IN_DEF_DKIM_WL=-7.5] autolearn=ham Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id PE9F2WVuomJT; Tue, 11 Nov 2014 18:58:14 -0800 (PST) Received: from alln-iport-7.cisco.com (alln-iport-7.cisco.com [173.37.142.94]) (using TLSv1 with cipher RC4-SHA (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id D97EF1A1B11; Tue, 11 Nov 2014 18:58:13 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/simple; d=cisco.com; i=@cisco.com; l=1409; q=dns/txt; s=iport; t=1415761094; x=1416970694; h=from:to:cc:subject:date:message-id:content-id: content-transfer-encoding:mime-version; bh=JfVm627/B4PTcsQbReOZtKxvvlS274w091gSoRGFfTU=; b=TGBuuAvbPBB99EfsMp9yh9EsR8R1ky3MV4JQVHUG4i+/FWPjbO+LJYl0 avO+HaZNByFldoNu0CDtHePq5Hd1ziW1A+EF08wpzglbIcink0rC+FeT+ jlG640kCGT6oPNbmvV4aiQ3++C0BhUVmb6XXd6swEOHix4XsoPJYfsjtM A=; X-IronPort-Anti-Spam-Filtered: true X-IronPort-Anti-Spam-Result: AgsFAEnMYlStJV2a/2dsb2JhbABcgw6BMdNqgRoWAQEBAQFyC4QJeRIBgQAnBA6IRs4oAQEBAQEBBAEBAQEBHZApa4RSBYtNhDSCOYt3iQyNW4N8gjWBAwEBAQ X-IronPort-AV: E=Sophos;i="5.07,365,1413244800"; d="scan'208";a="95746135" Received: from rcdn-core-3.cisco.com ([173.37.93.154]) by alln-iport-7.cisco.com with ESMTP; 12 Nov 2014 02:58:13 +0000 Received: from xhc-rcd-x11.cisco.com (xhc-rcd-x11.cisco.com [173.37.183.85]) by rcdn-core-3.cisco.com (8.14.5/8.14.5) with ESMTP id sAC2wDmB020919 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=AES128-SHA bits=128 verify=FAIL); Wed, 12 Nov 2014 02:58:13 GMT Received: from xmb-aln-x06.cisco.com ([169.254.1.61]) by xhc-rcd-x11.cisco.com ([173.37.183.85]) with mapi id 14.03.0195.001; Tue, 11 Nov 2014 20:58:12 -0600 From: "Acee Lindem (acee)" To: "rtgwg@ietf.org" Thread-Topic: High Level Comments on draft-ietf-netmod-rtg-cfg-16.txt Thread-Index: AQHP/iR/bz2PgSDCI0mdJt+ZqAHneA== Date: Wed, 12 Nov 2014 02:58:12 +0000 Message-ID: Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-originating-ip: [10.21.86.225] Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-ID: <245EF490985A4C4BAFA59C527F623E83@emea.cisco.com> Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable MIME-Version: 1.0 Archived-At: http://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/netmod/bAXQzC3b_xol00jZbdnv9oCY5Bg Cc: "netmod@ietf.org" Subject: [netmod] High Level Comments on draft-ietf-netmod-rtg-cfg-16.txt X-BeenThere: netmod@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: NETMOD WG list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 12 Nov 2014 02:58:15 -0000 I have two rather substantive comments on the draft we will be discussing in tomorrow=B9s rtgwg meeting. 1. The draft includes stub definitions for import/export routing filters with the guidance that these should be augmented. I would like to see these removed from this draft as the whole area of routing policy should be worked on by a multi-vendor team similar to what is being done for the routing protocols. I don=B9t think the direction should be set for routing policy based on these stub definitions. 2. The draft defines a list of interfaces that correspond to a routing-instance. The routing-instance binds the physical interface (RFC RFC 7273) to an address space. However, the IPv4/IPv6 interface addresses are specified via the YANG model in RFC 7277. I really don=B9t like this disjoint specification. Rather, "/if:interfaces/if:interface" in RFC 7273 should be augmented in a reference to the routing instance. Additionally, the neighbor discovery definitions should augment the ipv6 container in RFC 7277).=20 I also have one question for the RTG WG - do we want this model to specify the precise forwarding behavior? The draft states that =B3backup next-hops are only used if no primary next-hops exist." This will relegate all implementations to the same IPFRR behavior. I don=B9t think that this should be specified in this draft. Thanks, Acee=20 From nobody Tue Nov 11 19:20:14 2014 Return-Path: X-Original-To: netmod@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: netmod@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id D52711AC3FC for ; Tue, 11 Nov 2014 19:20:09 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.294 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.294 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, CHARSET_FARAWAY_HEADER=3.2, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, MIME_8BIT_HEADER=0.3, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-2.3, RP_MATCHES_RCVD=-0.594, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id ouvEoxfcWpZQ for ; Tue, 11 Nov 2014 19:20:06 -0800 (PST) Received: from lhrrgout.huawei.com (lhrrgout.huawei.com [194.213.3.17]) (using TLSv1 with cipher RC4-SHA (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id B123F1AC3F0 for ; Tue, 11 Nov 2014 19:20:05 -0800 (PST) Received: from 172.18.7.190 (EHLO lhreml403-hub.china.huawei.com) ([172.18.7.190]) by lhrrg01-dlp.huawei.com (MOS 4.3.7-GA FastPath queued) with ESMTP id BOR27635; Wed, 12 Nov 2014 03:20:04 +0000 (GMT) Received: from NKGEML408-HUB.china.huawei.com (10.98.56.39) by lhreml403-hub.china.huawei.com (10.201.5.217) with Microsoft SMTP Server (TLS) id 14.3.158.1; Wed, 12 Nov 2014 03:20:03 +0000 Received: from NKGEML504-MBX.china.huawei.com ([169.254.7.168]) by nkgeml408-hub.china.huawei.com ([10.98.56.39]) with mapi id 14.03.0158.001; Wed, 12 Nov 2014 11:19:55 +0800 From: Zhengguangying To: "malcolm.betts@zte.com.cn" Thread-Topic: =?gb2312?B?SGmjrE1hbGNvbG0gQmV0dHMgYW5kIGFsbCBuZXRtb2QsIGlzc3VlIGFib3V0?= =?gb2312?Q?_draft-zheng-netmod-xmi-yang-translation-00_?= Thread-Index: Ac/+J65o/xQagA+xSsK2X0VqXof+Ng== Date: Wed, 12 Nov 2014 03:19:55 +0000 Message-ID: <381D7D55085B1E4D8B581BD652E1E14058CA63E7@nkgeml504-mbx.china.huawei.com> Accept-Language: zh-CN, en-US Content-Language: zh-CN X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-originating-ip: [10.47.155.254] Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="_000_381D7D55085B1E4D8B581BD652E1E14058CA63E7nkgeml504mbxchi_" MIME-Version: 1.0 X-CFilter-Loop: Reflected Archived-At: http://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/netmod/ZJ6Ajf3h8WClVCd37gnz9tEzcMw Cc: "netmod@ietf.org" Subject: [netmod] =?gb2312?b?SGmjrE1hbGNvbG0gQmV0dHMgYW5kIGFsbCBuZXRtb2Qs?= =?gb2312?b?IGlzc3VlIGFib3V0IGRyYWZ0LXpoZW5nLW5ldG1vZC14bWkteWFuZy10cmFu?= =?gb2312?b?c2xhdGlvbi0wMA==?= X-BeenThere: netmod@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: NETMOD WG list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 12 Nov 2014 03:20:10 -0000 --_000_381D7D55085B1E4D8B581BD652E1E14058CA63E7nkgeml504mbxchi_ Content-Type: text/plain; charset="gb2312" Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 SGksIGFsbCBuZXRtb2QsDQoNCiAgIE5vdyB3ZSBoYXZlIHByZXBhcmUgb25lIGRyYWZ0IGZvciB0 cmFuc2xhdGUgVU1MIG1vZGVsIGZyb20gWE1JIHRvIFlBTkcgbW9kdWxlLCBhdCB0aGUgc2FtZSB0 aW1lLCBvbmUgb3BlbiBzb3VyY2UgcHJvamVjdCBpcyB1bmRlciBkZXZlbG9waW5nIGFib3V0IHRo aXMgZHJhZnQuDQogICBQbGVhc2UgaGVscCB0byByZXZpZXcgaXQgYW5kIGdpdmUgeW91ciBjb21t ZW50cywgdGhhbmsgeW91IHZlcnkgbXVjaC4NCg0KaHR0cHM6Ly9kYXRhdHJhY2tlci5pZXRmLm9y Zy9kb2MvZHJhZnQtemhlbmctbmV0bW9kLXhtaS15YW5nLXRyYW5zbGF0aW9uLw0KDQoNCg0KSGmj rE1hbGNvbG0gQmV0dHOjrA0KDQogICBJIHJlYWQgeW91ciBkcmFmdCBvZiBkcmFmdC1iZXR0cy1u ZXRtb2QtZnJhbWV3b3JrLWRhdGEtc2NoZW1hLXVtbC0wMCwgYXMgeW91IG1lbnRpb24sIHRoZXJl IGhhdmUgb25lIGd1aWRlIGZvciBVTUwgdG8gbmV0Y29uZi95YW5nIHlvdSBhcmUgZGV2ZWxvcG1l bnQsIHdoYXShr3MgeW91ciBvcGluaW9uIG9mIGhvdyB0byBtYXAgaXQ/ICBMZXShr3MgY2hlY2sg d2hldGhlciB0aGVyZSBhcmUgc29tZSBjb21tb24gaXNzdWUgbmVlZCBjb25jZXJuLCB0aGFua3Mu DQoNCg0KVGhhbmtzDQpaaGVuZw0K --_000_381D7D55085B1E4D8B581BD652E1E14058CA63E7nkgeml504mbxchi_ Content-Type: text/html; charset="gb2312" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

Hi, all netmod,

 

   Now we have prepare one draft for translate UM= L model from XMI to YANG module, at the same time, one open source project = is under developing about this draft.

   Please help to review it and give your co= mments, thank you very much.

 

https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-zheng-net= mod-xmi-yang-translation/

 

  

 

Hi=A3=ACMalcolm Betts=A3=AC

 

   I read your draft of draft-betts-netmod-framew= ork-data-schema-uml-00, as you mention, there have one guide for UML to net= conf/yang you are development, what=A1=AFs your opinion of how to map it?  Let=A1=AFs check whether there are some common iss= ue need concern, thanks.

 

 

Thanks

Zheng

--_000_381D7D55085B1E4D8B581BD652E1E14058CA63E7nkgeml504mbxchi_-- From nobody Wed Nov 12 08:54:29 2014 Return-Path: X-Original-To: netmod@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: netmod@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 22C031A8AEF; Wed, 12 Nov 2014 08:54:25 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: 0.204 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=0.204 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_50=0.8, RP_MATCHES_RCVD=-0.594, SPF_HELO_PASS=-0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id XexN7XvXPPmN; Wed, 12 Nov 2014 08:54:24 -0800 (PST) Received: from lucidvision.com (lucidvision.com [72.71.250.34]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9883A1A8A9A; Wed, 12 Nov 2014 08:52:58 -0800 (PST) Received: from [10.127.239.219] (unknown [166.170.38.102]) by lucidvision.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 49190292A24B; Wed, 12 Nov 2014 11:52:57 -0500 (EST) From: Thomas Nadeau Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Mime-Version: 1.0 (1.0) Message-Id: <9E663C51-1ED8-455E-AE17-CDF4E0EF7520@lucidvision.com> Date: Wed, 12 Nov 2014 08:52:55 -0800 To: NETMOD Working Group , YANG Doctors , rtg-yang-coord@ietf.org X-Mailer: iPhone Mail (12B411) Archived-At: http://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/netmod/PXSdRgaucOOzLknXX6tDRs-UlME Subject: [netmod] Yang advice session today X-BeenThere: netmod@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: NETMOD WG list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 12 Nov 2014 16:54:25 -0000 Just a reminder that a yang advice session is scheduled in South Pacific 2 o= n Wednesday, 11/12 from 1500 - 1700. Tom=20 From nobody Wed Nov 12 15:51:32 2014 Return-Path: X-Original-To: netmod@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: netmod@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 86B381A0012 for ; Wed, 12 Nov 2014 15:51:27 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -4.2 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-4.2 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-2.3, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 0CrtKq7cX_Ph for ; Wed, 12 Nov 2014 15:51:24 -0800 (PST) Received: from sesbmg23.ericsson.net (sesbmg23.ericsson.net [193.180.251.37]) (using TLSv1 with cipher DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 3C6301A0053 for ; Wed, 12 Nov 2014 15:51:24 -0800 (PST) X-AuditID: c1b4fb25-f791c6d00000617b-eb-5463f27877d1 Received: from ESGSCHC006.ericsson.se (Unknown_Domain [153.88.253.124]) by sesbmg23.ericsson.net (Symantec Mail Security) with SMTP id B9.58.24955.972F3645; Thu, 13 Nov 2014 00:51:22 +0100 (CET) Received: from ESGSCMB103.ericsson.se ([169.254.3.216]) by ESGSCHC006.ericsson.se ([146.11.116.83]) with mapi id 14.03.0174.001; Thu, 13 Nov 2014 07:51:19 +0800 From: Johnson Zhu To: "netmod@ietf.org" Thread-Topic: [netmod] How to: partial support of YANG models Thread-Index: Ac/+0l1PHHFgP7LlSei8U3z45cCWgw== Date: Wed, 12 Nov 2014 23:51:18 +0000 Message-ID: <31BFEF67CF6AC44BBEDE1890158D7377384EB77A@ESGSCMB103.ericsson.se> Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-originating-ip: [146.11.116.9] Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="_000_31BFEF67CF6AC44BBEDE1890158D7377384EB77AESGSCMB103erics_" MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Brightmail-Tracker: H4sIAAAAAAAAA+NgFrrGLMWRmVeSWpSXmKPExsUyM+JvjW7Vp+QQg6WfhS3mX2xkdWD0WLLk J1MAYxSXTUpqTmZZapG+XQJXxtcuroJm6Yp5m/4wNzCeFe9i5OSQEDCR2Nz7nRnCFpO4cG89 WxcjF4eQwBFGic4jHVDOEkaJa9vugFWxCehIrOmfxAZiiwioS8zcCdLBwSEsYCHxYpYDRNhW YmdfKzuErSfx/+I7MJtFQFVi9s5NrCA2r4CvxLMjm8FsRqDF30+tYQKxmQXEJW49mc8EcZCA xJI956GOE5V4+fgfK4StILH821t2iPp8iQWzu9kgZgpKnJz5hGUCo9AsJKNmISmbhaQMIq4j sWD3JzYIW1ti2cLXzDD2mQOPmZDFFzCyr2IULU4tTspNNzLWSy3KTC4uzs/Ty0st2cQIjIiD W36r7mC8/MbxEKMAB6MSD6/B2aQQIdbEsuLK3EOM0hwsSuK8C8/NCxYSSE8sSc1OTS1ILYov Ks1JLT7EyMTBKdXAmGl89qXTP3dGg3TzwzzFPwISJyzif7dv2mvlhvWXdujpVApsdn3GPX/J ds73rr2Hbr/83pd54VKZv3dDL3u9XPuvyq2y2ZrCkkq8O+P+vpPb3cfwSrZ6K/+fGJMnPGcN VeXf3++0PRZ2+IyGm8ayrKcVvNvPaf3y38Fzf9Mjw//R7LOvFTEcU2Ipzkg01GIuKk4EAOJ+ kCtpAgAA Archived-At: http://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/netmod/lko2Ys9VPYLrBAY2pNN7SVOgDaU Subject: [netmod] How to: partial support of YANG models X-BeenThere: netmod@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: NETMOD WG list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 12 Nov 2014 23:51:27 -0000 --_000_31BFEF67CF6AC44BBEDE1890158D7377384EB77AESGSCMB103erics_ Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hi, If IETF YANG model becomes formal one (let's say OSPF), there will be good = chance that vendor device cannot fully support all functions in OSPF YANG. What the vendor should do with OSPF YANG model? My thought is to use 'deviate' statement, but I am worried we abuse the mea= ning/power of 'deviate'. Any other choice do we have? Thanks /Johnson --_000_31BFEF67CF6AC44BBEDE1890158D7377384EB77AESGSCMB103erics_ Content-Type: text/html; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

Hi,

 

If IETF YANG model becomes formal one (let’s s= ay OSPF), there will be good chance that vendor device cannot fully support= all functions in OSPF YANG.

 

What the vendor should do with OSPF YANG model?=

 

My thought is to use ‘deviate’ statement= , but I am worried we abuse the meaning/power of ‘deviate’.

 

Any other choice do we have?

 

Thanks

/Johnson

--_000_31BFEF67CF6AC44BBEDE1890158D7377384EB77AESGSCMB103erics_-- From nobody Wed Nov 12 16:05:09 2014 Return-Path: X-Original-To: netmod@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: netmod@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id DB2981A0069 for ; Wed, 12 Nov 2014 16:00:42 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.245 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.245 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, HELO_EQ_CZ=0.445, HOST_EQ_CZ=0.904, RP_MATCHES_RCVD=-0.594] autolearn=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id mY75mqiKaJyS for ; Wed, 12 Nov 2014 16:00:41 -0800 (PST) Received: from mail.nic.cz (mail.nic.cz [IPv6:2001:1488:800:400::400]) (using TLSv1 with cipher ADH-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id EF6561A0053 for ; Wed, 12 Nov 2014 16:00:40 -0800 (PST) Received: from t2001067c0370014429454241974da862.hotel-wired.v6.meeting.ietf.org (t2001067c0370014429454241974da862.hotel-wired.v6.meeting.ietf.org [IPv6:2001:67c:370:144:2945:4241:974d:a862]) by mail.nic.cz (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 1BE8914006C; Thu, 13 Nov 2014 01:00:37 +0100 (CET) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=simple/simple; d=nic.cz; s=default; t=1415836839; bh=/cZ+WvIlIv2+jHmUsX32L/Hqz+6q1NuU4quv+jAX+iw=; h=Content-Type:Mime-Version:Subject:From:In-Reply-To:Date:Cc: Content-Transfer-Encoding:Message-Id:References:To; b=XWJ+aZLty7MiT9sNjB2G299UANx13co+plsj7BjqOJwcuEsdSatYK/PehTmq1/1rr mh6IuPmaf3QrILAfqqnxcjFEcjAYB9j86Exv2UiMkEwzSSh3hAXeA/ZeSTHV2w50y1 598Mp3kMuUUKSCBAxNJVXVv+LHf6eTFCq3THRpQY= Content-Type: text/plain; charset=windows-1252 Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 7.3 \(1878.6\)) From: Ladislav Lhotka In-Reply-To: <31BFEF67CF6AC44BBEDE1890158D7377384EB77A@ESGSCMB103.ericsson.se> Date: Wed, 12 Nov 2014 14:00:34 -1000 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Message-Id: References: <31BFEF67CF6AC44BBEDE1890158D7377384EB77A@ESGSCMB103.ericsson.se> To: Johnson Zhu X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.1878.6) X-Virus-Scanned: clamav-milter 0.98.1 at mail X-Virus-Status: Clean Archived-At: http://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/netmod/3fJTa7K3UjW86X7xFYTYdVniuDU Cc: "netmod@ietf.org" Subject: Re: [netmod] How to: partial support of YANG models X-BeenThere: netmod@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: NETMOD WG list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 13 Nov 2014 00:00:43 -0000 On 12 Nov 2014, at 13:51, Johnson Zhu wrote: > Hi, > =20 > If IETF YANG model becomes formal one (let=92s say OSPF), there will = be good chance that vendor device cannot fully support all functions in = OSPF YANG. > =20 > What the vendor should do with OSPF YANG model? > =20 > My thought is to use =91deviate=92 statement, but I am worried we = abuse the meaning/power of =91deviate=92. Yes, vendors are extremely reluctant to admit they deviate from the = standard. > =20 > Any other choice do we have? Andy addresses these issues in his draft: draft-bierman-netmod-yang-conformance-04 Lada > =20 > Thanks > /Johnson > _______________________________________________ > netmod mailing list > netmod@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/netmod -- Ladislav Lhotka, CZ.NIC Labs PGP Key ID: E74E8C0C From nobody Wed Nov 12 16:48:38 2014 Return-Path: X-Original-To: netmod@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: netmod@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id D98761A00FA; Wed, 12 Nov 2014 16:48:31 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -94.907 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-94.907 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_50=0.8, CHARSET_FARAWAY_HEADER=3.2, CN_BODY_46=0.256, HTML_FONT_FACE_BAD=0.981, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, MIME_8BIT_HEADER=0.3, MIME_CHARSET_FARAWAY=2.45, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-2.3, RP_MATCHES_RCVD=-0.594, SPF_PASS=-0.001, USER_IN_WHITELIST=-100] autolearn=ham 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Message-ID: From: feng.chong33@zte.com.cn Date: Thu, 13 Nov 2014 08:48:17 +0800 X-MIMETrack: Serialize by Router on notes_smtp/zte_ltd(Release 8.5.3FP6|November 21, 2013) at 2014-11-13 08:48:17, Serialize complete at 2014-11-13 08:48:17 Content-Type: multipart/related; boundary="=_related 00046BCC48257D8F_=" X-MAIL: mse01.zte.com.cn sAD0mHPC081002 Archived-At: http://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/netmod/ew0aU0Gn5bcyx73_xXA00mVtbTo Cc: netmod , "netmod@ietf.org" Subject: [netmod] =?gb2312?b?tPC4tDogICBIb3cgdG86IHBhcnRpYWwgc3VwcG9ydCBv?= =?gb2312?b?ZiBZQU5HIG1vZGVscw==?= X-BeenThere: netmod@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: NETMOD WG list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 13 Nov 2014 00:48:32 -0000 This is a multipart message in MIME format. --=_related 00046BCC48257D8F_= Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="=_alternative 00046BCF48257D8F_=" --=_alternative 00046BCF48257D8F_= 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autolearn=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 1pjoxnC5wW3c for ; Thu, 13 Nov 2014 00:39:52 -0800 (PST) Received: from lucidvision.com (lucidvision.com [72.71.250.34]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id F3C6A1A6FA9 for ; Thu, 13 Nov 2014 00:39:51 -0800 (PST) Received: from dhcp-8bf8.meeting.ietf.org (dhcp-8bf8.meeting.ietf.org [31.133.139.248]) by lucidvision.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id C3D0D292D335 for ; Thu, 13 Nov 2014 03:39:50 -0500 (EST) From: Thomas D. Nadeau Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Message-Id: <1DB00723-2121-4363-B655-9EC00725C5A4@lucidvision.com> Date: Wed, 12 Nov 2014 11:04:11 -1000 To: NETMOD Working Group Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 8.0 \(1990.1\)) X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.1990.1) Archived-At: http://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/netmod/U2yugh53lI25WaBotyzRkNF-WBs Subject: [netmod] WG Meeting Slides X-BeenThere: netmod@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: NETMOD WG list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 13 Nov 2014 08:39:52 -0000 I have only received 3 sets of slides for the meeting on = Thursday. Please send me your slides ASAP or I may drop you from the = agenda accidentally... --Tom From nobody Thu Nov 13 09:58:10 2014 Return-Path: X-Original-To: netmod@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: netmod@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5567A1A9045 for ; Thu, 13 Nov 2014 09:58:08 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -15.095 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-15.095 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_HI=-5, RP_MATCHES_RCVD=-0.594, SPF_PASS=-0.001, USER_IN_DEF_DKIM_WL=-7.5] autolearn=ham Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 1I4Az32GUAwR for ; Thu, 13 Nov 2014 09:58:06 -0800 (PST) Received: from rcdn-iport-2.cisco.com (rcdn-iport-2.cisco.com [173.37.86.73]) (using TLSv1 with cipher RC4-SHA (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 6C5951A9030 for ; 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Thu, 13 Nov 2014 17:58:05 GMT Received: from xmb-aln-x13.cisco.com ([fe80::5404:b599:9f57:834b]) by xhc-rcd-x06.cisco.com ([173.37.183.80]) with mapi id 14.03.0195.001; Thu, 13 Nov 2014 11:58:05 -0600 From: "Clyde Wildes (cwildes)" To: "netmod@ietf.org" Thread-Topic: IETF Syslog Model Flaw Thread-Index: AQHP/2tfe6aLhgjbjE2XmQ3lxwJ65A== Date: Thu, 13 Nov 2014 17:58:05 +0000 Message-ID: <78DA780D-3E80-47EC-8FE3-36F2597C2764@cisco.com> Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-originating-ip: [128.107.157.206] Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-ID: Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 MIME-Version: 1.0 Archived-At: http://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/netmod/DwsMxEr15o62sxpsPvq0izF4b6I Subject: [netmod] IETF Syslog Model Flaw X-BeenThere: netmod@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: NETMOD WG list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 13 Nov 2014 17:58:08 -0000 SGksDQoNCldoaWxlIHJldmlld2luZyB0aGUgbGF0ZXN0IGRyYWZ0IG9mIHRoZSBJRVRGIFN5c2xv ZyBZQU5HIG1vZGVsIA0KKGh0dHA6Ly93d3cuaWV0Zi5vcmcvaWQvZHJhZnQtaWV0Zi1uZXRtb2Qt c3lzbG9nLW1vZGVsLTAwLnR4dCksIEkgDQpkaXNjb3ZlcmVkIGEgZmxhdyBpbiB0aGUgcmVtb3Rl LWxvZ2dpbmctYWN0aW9uIGNvbnRhaW5lciB0aGF0IHdpbGwgaGF2ZSB0byANCmJlIGZpeGVkIGlu IGEgZnV0dXJlIHJldmlzaW9uLiBUaGUgaXNzdWUgaXMgdGhhdCB0aGUgDQpyZW1vdGUtbG9nZ2lu Zy1kZXN0aW5hdGlvbiBsaXN0IGRlc3RpbmF0aW9uIGxlYWYgbmFtZSdzIElQIHByb3RvY29sIGlz IA0KYW1iaWd1b3VzIGJlY2F1c2UgaXQgaXMgbm90IGN1cnJlbnRseSBhdmFpbGFibGUgaW4gdGhl IG1vZGVsIC0gYW4gaXB2NCANCmRlc3RpbmF0aW9uIGhvc3RuYW1lIGNhbid0IGJlIGRpc3Rpbmd1 aXNoZWQgZnJvbSBhbiBpcHY2IGRlc3RpbmF0aW9uIA0KaG9zdG5hbWUuIFRoaXMgaXMgcHJvYmxl bWF0aWMgZm9yIHNvbWUgbmV0d29yayBlbGVtZW50IGNvbmZpZ3VyYXRpb24gd2hpY2ggDQpyZXF1 aXJlcyBwcmlvciBrbm93bGVkZ2Ugb2YgdGhlIGlwLXZlcnNpb24uDQoNClRoZSBmaXggaXMgdG8g YWRkIGlwLXZlcnNpb24gdG8gdGhlIGlldGYtc3lzbG9nLnlhbmcgbW9kZWwgaW5zZXJ0aW5nIHRo ZSANCmZvbGxvd2luZyBhZnRlciBsaW5lIDMyMToNCg0KICAgICAgICBsZWFmIGRlc3RpbmF0aW9u LWlwLXR5cGUgew0KICAgICAgICAgIHR5cGUgaW5ldDppcC12ZXJzaW9uOw0KICAgICAgICAgIG1h bmRhdG9yeSB0cnVlOw0KICAgICAgICAgIGRlc2NyaXB0aW9uDQogICAgICAgICAgICAiVGhlIGxl YWYgdW5pcXVlbHkgc3BlY2lmaWVzIHRoZSBpcCBwcm90b2NvbCB0eXBlDQogICAgICAgICAgICAg Zm9yIHRoZSByZW1vdGUgaG9zdC4iOw0KICAgICAgICB9DQoNCkV4YW1wbGUgZm9yIGFuIGlwdjQg aG9zdDoNCg0KICAgIDxzeXNsb2cgeG1sbnM9InVybjppZXRmOnBhcmFtczp4bWw6bnM6eWFuZzpp ZXRmLXN5c2xvZyIgDQo8aHR0cDovL2Npc2NvLmNvbS9ucy95YW5nL3N5c2xvZyI+Pg0KICAgICAg PHJlbW90ZS1sb2dnaW5nLWFjdGlvbj4NCiAgICAgICAgPHJlbW90ZS1sb2dnaW5nLWRlc3RpbmF0 aW9uPg0KICAgICAgICAgIDxkZXN0aW5hdGlvbi1pcC10eXBlPmlwdjQ8L2Rlc3RpbmF0aW9uLWlw LXR5cGU+DQogICAgICAgICAgPGRlc3RpbmF0aW9uPmhvc3RuYW1lPC9kZXN0aW5hdGlvbj4NCiAg ICAgICAgICA8bG9nZ2luZy1mYWNpbGl0eS1hbGwvPg0KICAgICAgICAgICAgPHNldmVyaXR5Pm5v dGljZTwvc2V2ZXJpdHk+DQogICAgICAgICAgPC9sb2dnaW5nLWZhY2lsaXR5LWFsbD4NCiAgICAg ICAgICA8ZGVzdGluYXRpb24tZmFjaWxpdHk+ZGVzdGluYXRpb24tZmFjaWxpdHk8L2Rlc3RpbmF0 aW9uLWZhY2lsaXR5Pg0KICAgICAgICAgIDxzb3VyY2UtaW50ZXJmYWNlPnNvdXJjZS1pbnRlcmZh Y2UtbmFtZTwvc291cmNlLWludGVyZmFjZT4NCiAgICAgICAgICA8dnJmLW5hbWU+dnJmbmFtZTwv dnJmLW5hbWU+DQogICAgICAgIDwvcmVtb3RlLWxvZ2dpbmctZGVzdGluYXRpb24+DQogICAgICA8 L3JlbW90ZS1sb2dnaW5nLWFjdGlvbj4NCiAgICA8L3N5c2xvZz4NCg0KRXhhbXBsZSBmb3IgYW4g aXB2NiBob3N0Og0KDQogICAgPHN5c2xvZyB4bWxucz0idXJuOmlldGY6cGFyYW1zOnhtbDpuczp5 YW5nOmlldGYtc3lzbG9nIiANCjxodHRwOi8vY2lzY28uY29tL25zL3lhbmcvc3lzbG9nIj4+DQog ICAgICA8cmVtb3RlLWxvZ2dpbmctYWN0aW9uPg0KICAgICAgICA8cmVtb3RlLWxvZ2dpbmctZGVz dGluYXRpb24+DQogICAgICAgICAgPGRlc3RpbmF0aW9uLWlwLXR5cGU+aXB2NjwvZGVzdGluYXRp b24taXAtdHlwZT4NCiAgICAgICAgICA8ZGVzdGluYXRpb24+aG9zdG5hbWU8L2Rlc3RpbmF0aW9u Pg0KICAgICAgICAgIDxsb2dnaW5nLWZhY2lsaXR5LWFsbC8+DQogICAgICAgICAgICA8c2V2ZXJp dHk+bm90aWNlPC9zZXZlcml0eT4NCiAgICAgICAgICA8L2xvZ2dpbmctZmFjaWxpdHktYWxsPg0K ICAgICAgICAgIDxkZXN0aW5hdGlvbi1mYWNpbGl0eT5kZXN0aW5hdGlvbi1mYWNpbGl0eTwvZGVz dGluYXRpb24tZmFjaWxpdHk+DQogICAgICAgICAgPHNvdXJjZS1pbnRlcmZhY2U+c291cmNlLWlu dGVyZmFjZS1uYW1lPC9zb3VyY2UtaW50ZXJmYWNlPg0KICAgICAgICAgIDx2cmYtbmFtZT52cmZu YW1lPC92cmYtbmFtZT4NCiAgICAgICAgPC9yZW1vdGUtbG9nZ2luZy1kZXN0aW5hdGlvbj4NCiAg ICAgIDwvcmVtb3RlLWxvZ2dpbmctYWN0aW9uPg0KICAgIDwvc3lzbG9nPg0KDQpJIHdpbGwgcHJl cGFyZSBhbiB1cGRhdGVkIGRyYWZ0IGZvciByZS1zdWJtaXNzaW9uLg0KDQpUaGFua3MsDQoNCkNs eWRlDQoNCg== From nobody Thu Nov 13 10:11:18 2014 Return-Path: X-Original-To: netmod@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: netmod@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 28E691A9051 for ; 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Thu, 13 Nov 2014 19:11:06 +0100 (CET) Date: Thu, 13 Nov 2014 19:11:06 +0100 From: Juergen Schoenwaelder To: "Clyde Wildes (cwildes)" Message-ID: <20141113181104.GA62061@elstar.local> Mail-Followup-To: "Clyde Wildes (cwildes)" , "netmod@ietf.org" References: <78DA780D-3E80-47EC-8FE3-36F2597C2764@cisco.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <78DA780D-3E80-47EC-8FE3-36F2597C2764@cisco.com> User-Agent: Mutt/1.4.2.3i Archived-At: http://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/netmod/dWK9w03CVwlxDY6d-f5xAW62Z0c Cc: "netmod@ietf.org" Subject: Re: [netmod] IETF Syslog Model Flaw X-BeenThere: netmod@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list Reply-To: Juergen Schoenwaelder List-Id: NETMOD WG list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 13 Nov 2014 18:11:17 -0000 Speaking as technical contributor: Why is this needed? And even if there is a reason why this is needed, why would it be mandatory? /js On Thu, Nov 13, 2014 at 05:58:05PM +0000, Clyde Wildes (cwildes) wrote: > Hi, > > While reviewing the latest draft of the IETF Syslog YANG model > (http://www.ietf.org/id/draft-ietf-netmod-syslog-model-00.txt), I > discovered a flaw in the remote-logging-action container that will have to > be fixed in a future revision. The issue is that the > remote-logging-destination list destination leaf name's IP protocol is > ambiguous because it is not currently available in the model - an ipv4 > destination hostname can't be distinguished from an ipv6 destination > hostname. This is problematic for some network element configuration which > requires prior knowledge of the ip-version. > > The fix is to add ip-version to the ietf-syslog.yang model inserting the > following after line 321: > > leaf destination-ip-type { > type inet:ip-version; > mandatory true; > description > "The leaf uniquely specifies the ip protocol type > for the remote host."; > } > > Example for an ipv4 host: > > > > > > ipv4 > hostname > > notice > > destination-facility > source-interface-name > vrfname > > > > > Example for an ipv6 host: > > > > > > ipv6 > hostname > > notice > > destination-facility > source-interface-name > vrfname > > > > > I will prepare an updated draft for re-submission. > > Thanks, > > Clyde > > _______________________________________________ > netmod mailing list > netmod@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/netmod -- Juergen Schoenwaelder Jacobs University Bremen gGmbH Phone: +49 421 200 3587 Campus Ring 1, 28759 Bremen, Germany Fax: +49 421 200 3103 From nobody Thu Nov 13 10:51:11 2014 Return-Path: X-Original-To: netmod@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: netmod@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 447241A9236 for ; Thu, 13 Nov 2014 10:51:09 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: 0.654 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=0.654 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_40=-0.001, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, HELO_EQ_CZ=0.445, HOST_EQ_CZ=0.904, RP_MATCHES_RCVD=-0.594] autolearn=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id qoo2At2_0mzx for ; Thu, 13 Nov 2014 10:51:08 -0800 (PST) Received: from mail.nic.cz (mail.nic.cz [IPv6:2001:1488:800:400::400]) (using TLSv1 with cipher ADH-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 53DC41A9244 for ; Thu, 13 Nov 2014 10:51:03 -0800 (PST) Received: from dhcp-97c3.meeting.ietf.org (dhcp-97c3.meeting.ietf.org [31.133.151.195]) by mail.nic.cz (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id D2C6913F6A6 for ; Thu, 13 Nov 2014 19:51:00 +0100 (CET) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=simple/simple; d=nic.cz; s=default; t=1415904661; bh=Cdg/To7uSlX4to7H+x4aDBHQpbpUCNrHmpEzRIWxeZw=; h=From:Content-Type:Content-Transfer-Encoding:Subject:Message-Id: Date:To:Mime-Version; b=EI7wkOz+fBVVtz8HFEKbwk096PioynQNM2MdT7oRCFM69EdjUrL74veWWwNw57RIA 70DzRUKqgKIaAvqzjZ61bzO9oKBxKrU3gOZkRZIgs+KkXGD9HLhlce0N2fPTw8h6/u FWpqHy0m1N1zc9bSvlOPb3m99pyStTsapmExkVw8= From: Ladislav Lhotka Content-Type: text/plain; charset=windows-1252 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Message-Id: <10953EAE-A5EB-4AB4-84E9-2701856AAC1E@nic.cz> Date: Thu, 13 Nov 2014 08:50:56 -1000 To: NETMOD Working Group Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 7.3 \(1878.6\)) X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.1878.6) X-Virus-Scanned: clamav-milter 0.98.1 at mail X-Virus-Status: Clean Archived-At: http://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/netmod/K5yGfV4Ute2KiQyQRB3JojSkttw Subject: [netmod] separate state and config X-BeenThere: netmod@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: NETMOD WG list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 13 Nov 2014 18:51:09 -0000 Hi, I think $subj needs more discussion because there still seem to be = disagreements whether separate config and state trees are necessary or = not. Maybe the answer can be different for NETCONF and RESTCONF. In NETCONF, = in something changes in the system (e.g. an interface card is = installed), state data is the only safe place where the system can = record the change. Writing it to running is problematic because (1) = running may be locked, or (2) running and candidate may get out of sync = and the client then might not be able to commit. In contrast, neither (1) nor (2) is an issue for RESTCONF=92s unified = datastore, and so system-generated writes are probably safe. That would however mean that data models written primarily for RESTCONF = might have problems if used with NETCONF, which is IMO not good. Lada =20 -- Ladislav Lhotka, CZ.NIC Labs PGP Key ID: E74E8C0C From nobody Thu Nov 13 11:01:21 2014 Return-Path: X-Original-To: netmod@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: netmod@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6D0C91AC3AA for ; Thu, 13 Nov 2014 11:01:19 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -15.095 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-15.095 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_HI=-5, RP_MATCHES_RCVD=-0.594, SPF_PASS=-0.001, USER_IN_DEF_DKIM_WL=-7.5] autolearn=ham Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id tOczaMNKVZ05 for ; Thu, 13 Nov 2014 11:01:17 -0800 (PST) Received: from alln-iport-7.cisco.com (alln-iport-7.cisco.com [173.37.142.94]) (using TLSv1 with cipher RC4-SHA (128/128 bits)) (No client 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x-originating-ip: [128.107.157.206] Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-ID: Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 MIME-Version: 1.0 Archived-At: http://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/netmod/58vmeFUJ-ilsDUARbzIFLlF6-e8 Cc: "netmod@ietf.org" Subject: Re: [netmod] IETF Syslog Model Flaw X-BeenThere: netmod@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: NETMOD WG list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 13 Nov 2014 19:01:19 -0000 SnVlcmdlbiwNCg0KVGhhbmtzIGZvciB5b3VyIHJldmlldy4NCg0KT25lIG9mIHRoZSBuZXR3b3Jr IGVsZW1lbnQgb3BlcmF0aW5nIHN5c3RlbXMgdGhhdCBJIGhhdmUgYmVlbiB3b3JraW5nIHdpdGgg DQpyZXF1aXJlcyBwcmlvciBrbm93bGVkZ2Ugb2YgaXAtdHlwZSBpbiBvcmRlciB0byBjb25maWd1 cmUgcmVtb3RlIGFjY2Vzcy4gDQpJZiB5b3UgZmVlbCBzdHJvbmdseSBhYm91dCB0aGlzIHdlIGNh biBsZWF2ZSB0aGUgbW9kZWwgYWxvbmUgYW5kIGF1Z21lbnQgDQpmb3IgdGhlIGlwLXR5cGUuIFJl Z2FyZGluZyBtYW5kYXRvcnk6IEkgYWdyZWUgdGhhdCBpZiB3ZSBsZWF2ZSBpdCBpbiwgaXQgDQpz 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cywNCj4+IA0KPj4gQ2x5ZGUNCj4+IA0KPj4gX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19f X19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX18NCj4+IG5ldG1vZCBtYWlsaW5nIGxpc3QNCj4+IG5ldG1vZEBpZXRm Lm9yZw0KPj4gaHR0cHM6Ly93d3cuaWV0Zi5vcmcvbWFpbG1hbi9saXN0aW5mby9uZXRtb2QNCj4N Cj4tLSANCj5KdWVyZ2VuIFNjaG9lbndhZWxkZXIgICAgICAgICAgIEphY29icyBVbml2ZXJzaXR5 IEJyZW1lbiBnR21iSA0KPlBob25lOiArNDkgNDIxIDIwMCAzNTg3ICAgICAgICAgQ2FtcHVzIFJp bmcgMSwgMjg3NTkgQnJlbWVuLCBHZXJtYW55DQo+RmF4OiAgICs0OSA0MjEgMjAwIDMxMDMgICAg ICAgICA8aHR0cDovL3d3dy5qYWNvYnMtdW5pdmVyc2l0eS5kZS8+DQo= From nobody Thu Nov 13 11:04:04 2014 Return-Path: X-Original-To: netmod@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: netmod@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5F4BA1ACD01 for ; Thu, 13 Nov 2014 11:04:01 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.495 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.495 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, RP_MATCHES_RCVD=-0.594, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 8fusb6K27taj for ; Thu, 13 Nov 2014 11:03:56 -0800 (PST) Received: from mail.tail-f.com (mail.tail-f.com [83.241.162.140]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id C3A681AC414 for ; Thu, 13 Nov 2014 11:02:25 -0800 (PST) Received: from localhost (unknown [193.13.112.215]) by mail.tail-f.com (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id D5C091280E77; Thu, 13 Nov 2014 20:02:24 +0100 (CET) Date: Thu, 13 Nov 2014 20:02:24 +0100 (CET) Message-Id: <20141113.200224.70446226.mbj@tail-f.com> To: lhotka@nic.cz From: Martin Bjorklund In-Reply-To: <10953EAE-A5EB-4AB4-84E9-2701856AAC1E@nic.cz> References: <10953EAE-A5EB-4AB4-84E9-2701856AAC1E@nic.cz> X-Mailer: Mew version 6.5 on Emacs 24.3 / Mule 6.0 (HANACHIRUSATO) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: Text/Plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 Archived-At: http://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/netmod/Zl20F_XErp__uLZWazfqQJwxkSk Cc: netmod@ietf.org Subject: Re: [netmod] separate state and config X-BeenThere: netmod@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: NETMOD WG list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 13 Nov 2014 19:04:01 -0000 TGFkYSwNCg0KVGhlIGludGVudGlvbiBpcyBub3QgdGhhdCBSRVNUQ09ORiBoYXMgYSAqc2VwYXJh dGUqIGRhdGFzdG9yZSB0aGFuDQpORVRDT05GIC0gaXQganVzdCBwcm92aWRlcyB1bmlmaWVkIGFj Y2VzcyB0bw0Kc3RhcnR1cC9ydW5uaW5nL2NhbmRpZGF0ZS4gIElmIHlvdSB3cml0ZSBzb21ldGhp bmcgdGhyb3VnaCBSRVNUQ09ORiwNCml0IGltbWVkaWF0ZWx5IHNob3dzIHVwIGluIGdldC1jb25m aWcocnVubmluZykgaW4gTkVUQ09ORi4NCg0KDQovbWFydGluDQoNCg0KTGFkaXNsYXYgTGhvdGth IDxsaG90a2FAbmljLmN6PiB3cm90ZToNCj4gSGksDQo+IA0KPiBJIHRoaW5rICRzdWJqIG5lZWRz IG1vcmUgZGlzY3Vzc2lvbiBiZWNhdXNlIHRoZXJlIHN0aWxsIHNlZW0gdG8gYmUNCj4gZGlzYWdy ZWVtZW50cyB3aGV0aGVyIHNlcGFyYXRlIGNvbmZpZyBhbmQgc3RhdGUgdHJlZXMgYXJlIG5lY2Vz 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bGF2IExob3RrYSwgQ1ouTklDIExhYnMNCj4gUEdQIEtleSBJRDogRTc0RThDMEMNCj4gDQo+IA0K PiANCj4gDQo+IF9fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19f DQo+IG5ldG1vZCBtYWlsaW5nIGxpc3QNCj4gbmV0bW9kQGlldGYub3JnDQo+IGh0dHBzOi8vd3d3 LmlldGYub3JnL21haWxtYW4vbGlzdGluZm8vbmV0bW9kDQo+IA0K From nobody Thu Nov 13 11:23:22 2014 Return-Path: X-Original-To: netmod@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: netmod@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6B5321AC447 for ; Thu, 13 Nov 2014 11:23:17 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.144 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.144 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, HELO_EQ_DE=0.35, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, RP_MATCHES_RCVD=-0.594] autolearn=ham Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 7A1kEv0PksEd for ; Thu, 13 Nov 2014 11:23:09 -0800 (PST) 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atlas3.jacobs-university.de (Postfix) with ESMTPS; Thu, 13 Nov 2014 20:20:05 +0100 (CET) Received: from localhost (demetrius1.jacobs-university.de [212.201.44.46]) by hermes.jacobs-university.de (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6A22520033; Thu, 13 Nov 2014 20:20:05 +0100 (CET) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at jacobs-university.de Received: from hermes.jacobs-university.de ([212.201.44.23]) by localhost (demetrius1.jacobs-university.de [212.201.44.32]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id APoO83FV5tmt; Thu, 13 Nov 2014 20:20:05 +0100 (CET) Received: from elstar.local (elstar.jacobs.jacobs-university.de [10.50.231.133]) by hermes.jacobs-university.de (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7544120013; Thu, 13 Nov 2014 20:20:04 +0100 (CET) Received: by elstar.local (Postfix, from userid 501) id E07FD2F818CE; Thu, 13 Nov 2014 20:20:03 +0100 (CET) Date: Thu, 13 Nov 2014 20:20:03 +0100 From: Juergen Schoenwaelder To: Martin Bjorklund Message-ID: <20141113192003.GA62229@elstar.local> Mail-Followup-To: Martin Bjorklund , lhotka@nic.cz, netmod@ietf.org References: <10953EAE-A5EB-4AB4-84E9-2701856AAC1E@nic.cz> <20141113.200224.70446226.mbj@tail-f.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <20141113.200224.70446226.mbj@tail-f.com> User-Agent: Mutt/1.4.2.3i Archived-At: http://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/netmod/Lw1bcR1Hy4MrQROKcJlO0IXEgjY Cc: netmod@ietf.org Subject: Re: [netmod] separate state and config X-BeenThere: netmod@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list Reply-To: Juergen Schoenwaelder List-Id: NETMOD WG list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 13 Nov 2014 19:23:17 -0000 On Thu, Nov 13, 2014 at 08:02:24PM +0100, Martin Bjorklund wrote: > If you write something through RESTCONF, it immediately shows up in > get-config(running) in NETCONF. Out of curiosity: What happens if running is locked? I get a 409 Conflict HTTP error response? /js -- Juergen Schoenwaelder Jacobs University Bremen gGmbH Phone: +49 421 200 3587 Campus Ring 1, 28759 Bremen, Germany Fax: +49 421 200 3103 From nobody Thu Nov 13 11:27:13 2014 Return-Path: X-Original-To: netmod@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: netmod@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id A277D1ACCDC for ; Thu, 13 Nov 2014 11:27:07 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.495 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.495 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, RP_MATCHES_RCVD=-0.594, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id lTO2fZOIbat3 for ; Thu, 13 Nov 2014 11:27:06 -0800 (PST) Received: from mail.tail-f.com (mail.tail-f.com [83.241.162.140]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id CE7FA1ACD6E for ; Thu, 13 Nov 2014 11:24:45 -0800 (PST) Received: from localhost (unknown [193.13.112.215]) by mail.tail-f.com (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 1B2551280E79; Thu, 13 Nov 2014 20:24:45 +0100 (CET) Date: Thu, 13 Nov 2014 20:24:44 +0100 (CET) Message-Id: <20141113.202444.67901626.mbj@tail-f.com> To: j.schoenwaelder@jacobs-university.de From: Martin Bjorklund In-Reply-To: <20141113192003.GA62229@elstar.local> References: <10953EAE-A5EB-4AB4-84E9-2701856AAC1E@nic.cz> <20141113.200224.70446226.mbj@tail-f.com> <20141113192003.GA62229@elstar.local> X-Mailer: Mew version 6.5 on Emacs 24.3 / Mule 6.0 (HANACHIRUSATO) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: Text/Plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Archived-At: http://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/netmod/Y4mgN4-kI5-Y5jHT90Ozf7AU5P0 Cc: netmod@ietf.org Subject: Re: [netmod] separate state and config X-BeenThere: netmod@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: NETMOD WG list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 13 Nov 2014 19:27:08 -0000 Juergen Schoenwaelder wrote: > On Thu, Nov 13, 2014 at 08:02:24PM +0100, Martin Bjorklund wrote: > > > If you write something through RESTCONF, it immediately shows up in > > get-config(running) in NETCONF. > > Out of curiosity: What happens if running is locked? I get a 409 > Conflict HTTP error response? Yes, see section 6 in the draft, and the example in 6.1. /martin From nobody Thu Nov 13 11:38:33 2014 Return-Path: X-Original-To: netmod@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: netmod@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id ED0DB1ACE0F for ; Thu, 13 Nov 2014 11:38:30 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.144 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.144 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, HELO_EQ_DE=0.35, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, RP_MATCHES_RCVD=-0.594] autolearn=ham Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id Qh70XyVQiiZk for ; Thu, 13 Nov 2014 11:38:28 -0800 (PST) Received: from atlas3.jacobs-university.de (atlas3.jacobs-university.de [212.201.44.18]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher AECDH-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id E3AC11ACE12 for ; Thu, 13 Nov 2014 11:38:25 -0800 (PST) Received: from localhost (demetrius5.irc-it.jacobs-university.de [10.70.0.222]) by atlas3.jacobs-university.de (Postfix) with ESMTP id B1AB9FFC; Thu, 13 Nov 2014 20:38:24 +0100 (CET) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at jacobs-university.de Received: from atlas3.jacobs-university.de ([10.70.0.220]) by localhost (demetrius5.jacobs-university.de [10.70.0.222]) (amavisd-new, port 10030) with ESMTP id 8zBewnB4rc9m; Thu, 13 Nov 2014 20:38:02 +0100 (CET) Received: from hermes.jacobs-university.de (hermes.jacobs-university.de [212.201.44.23]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (Client CN "hermes.jacobs-university.de", Issuer "Jacobs University CA - G01" (verified OK)) by atlas3.jacobs-university.de (Postfix) with ESMTPS; Thu, 13 Nov 2014 20:38:24 +0100 (CET) Received: from localhost (demetrius2.jacobs-university.de [212.201.44.47]) by hermes.jacobs-university.de (Postfix) with ESMTP id C9C8620017; Thu, 13 Nov 2014 20:38:23 +0100 (CET) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at jacobs-university.de Received: from hermes.jacobs-university.de ([212.201.44.23]) by localhost (demetrius2.jacobs-university.de [212.201.44.32]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id T93qfziDHAPv; Thu, 13 Nov 2014 20:36:23 +0100 (CET) Received: from elstar.local (elstar.jacobs.jacobs-university.de [10.50.231.133]) by hermes.jacobs-university.de (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8318320013; Thu, 13 Nov 2014 20:38:22 +0100 (CET) Received: by elstar.local (Postfix, from userid 501) id 761C52F8194B; Thu, 13 Nov 2014 20:38:22 +0100 (CET) Date: Thu, 13 Nov 2014 20:38:22 +0100 From: Juergen Schoenwaelder To: Andy Bierman Message-ID: <20141113193822.GA62321@elstar.local> Mail-Followup-To: Andy Bierman , Martin Bjorklund , "netmod@ietf.org" References: <20141105141403.GE24310@elstar.local> <20141105.155554.113656028962485180.mbj@tail-f.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: User-Agent: Mutt/1.4.2.3i Archived-At: http://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/netmod/2BS2XN9yg4ADeOcC9ayIwQcAamw Cc: "netmod@ietf.org" Subject: Re: [netmod] VRFY :Y58: associate an actions with a data node X-BeenThere: netmod@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list Reply-To: Juergen Schoenwaelder List-Id: NETMOD WG list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 13 Nov 2014 19:38:31 -0000 On Thu, Nov 06, 2014 at 07:38:16AM -0800, Andy Bierman wrote: > Hi, > > OK, I thought Juergen meant the generic data wrapper, > not the literal element wrapper. That is fine. > > But what about NACM? We are the co-authors, and I think > we are willing to do the editing, but it is up to the IESG to > charter and the WG to do the work. > > What about I2RS requirements for owner-based access-control? > IMO NACM is applied first. Owner priority applies when the > data already exists (both clients have NACM permission). > It is not clear if any changes to NACM are required to support I2RS. We probably have to serialize work and NACM belongs to NETCONF, so we would have to take any update needed to NETCONF I think. /js -- Juergen Schoenwaelder Jacobs University Bremen gGmbH Phone: +49 421 200 3587 Campus Ring 1, 28759 Bremen, Germany Fax: +49 421 200 3103 From nobody Thu Nov 13 11:41:01 2014 Return-Path: X-Original-To: netmod@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: netmod@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3DB121ACE12 for ; Thu, 13 Nov 2014 11:40:53 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.144 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.144 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, HELO_EQ_DE=0.35, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, RP_MATCHES_RCVD=-0.594] autolearn=ham Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id wS7yUvVJHRJX for ; Thu, 13 Nov 2014 11:40:50 -0800 (PST) Received: from atlas3.jacobs-university.de (atlas3.jacobs-university.de [212.201.44.18]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher AECDH-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id B9F371ACE35 for ; Thu, 13 Nov 2014 11:40:08 -0800 (PST) Received: from localhost (demetrius5.irc-it.jacobs-university.de [10.70.0.222]) by atlas3.jacobs-university.de (Postfix) with ESMTP id 87C85FFC; Thu, 13 Nov 2014 20:40:07 +0100 (CET) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at jacobs-university.de Received: from atlas3.jacobs-university.de ([10.70.0.220]) by localhost (demetrius5.jacobs-university.de [10.70.0.222]) (amavisd-new, port 10030) with ESMTP id Z_5zzN5YvN-2; Thu, 13 Nov 2014 20:39:44 +0100 (CET) Received: from hermes.jacobs-university.de (hermes.jacobs-university.de [212.201.44.23]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (Client CN "hermes.jacobs-university.de", Issuer "Jacobs University CA - G01" (verified OK)) by atlas3.jacobs-university.de (Postfix) with ESMTPS; Thu, 13 Nov 2014 20:40:06 +0100 (CET) Received: from localhost (demetrius4.jacobs-university.de [212.201.44.49]) by hermes.jacobs-university.de (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9350120017; Thu, 13 Nov 2014 20:40:06 +0100 (CET) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at jacobs-university.de Received: from hermes.jacobs-university.de ([212.201.44.23]) by localhost (demetrius4.jacobs-university.de [212.201.44.32]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id VkZaewR3-fok; Thu, 13 Nov 2014 20:40:05 +0100 (CET) Received: from elstar.local (elstar.jacobs.jacobs-university.de [10.50.231.133]) by hermes.jacobs-university.de (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2673D20013; Thu, 13 Nov 2014 20:40:05 +0100 (CET) Received: by elstar.local (Postfix, from userid 501) id 19BC62F81976; Thu, 13 Nov 2014 20:40:05 +0100 (CET) Date: Thu, 13 Nov 2014 20:40:05 +0100 From: Juergen Schoenwaelder To: Andy Bierman Message-ID: <20141113194005.GB62321@elstar.local> Mail-Followup-To: Andy Bierman , Martin Bjorklund , "netmod@ietf.org" References: <20141105141403.GE24310@elstar.local> <20141105.155554.113656028962485180.mbj@tail-f.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: User-Agent: Mutt/1.4.2.3i Archived-At: http://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/netmod/WF3-Ti4o096ygzO2Y2TpIxLloIM Cc: "netmod@ietf.org" Subject: Re: [netmod] VRFY :Y58: associate an actions with a data node X-BeenThere: netmod@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list Reply-To: Juergen Schoenwaelder List-Id: NETMOD WG list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 13 Nov 2014 19:40:53 -0000 Andy, given Martin's clarification, are you find the proposed resolution of Y58? /js On Thu, Nov 06, 2014 at 07:38:16AM -0800, Andy Bierman wrote: > Hi, > > OK, I thought Juergen meant the generic data wrapper, > not the literal element wrapper. That is fine. > > But what about NACM? We are the co-authors, and I think > we are willing to do the editing, but it is up to the IESG to > charter and the WG to do the work. > > What about I2RS requirements for owner-based access-control? > IMO NACM is applied first. Owner priority applies when the > data already exists (both clients have NACM permission). > It is not clear if any changes to NACM are required to support I2RS. > > > Andy > > > On Wed, Nov 5, 2014 at 6:55 AM, Martin Bjorklund wrote: > > Andy Bierman wrote: > >> On Wed, Nov 5, 2014 at 6:14 AM, Juergen Schoenwaelder > >> wrote: > >> > The 2014-10-15 virtual interim meeting proposal is to use the encoding > >> > but to remove the data wrapper. In addition, issue Y36 should be > >> > opened again, asking for proposals how to encode notifications > >> > associated with data nodes. > >> > > >> > >> > >> I do not remember that we agreed to remove the data wrapper > >> (meaning the instance information for the action). > > > > NOTE: this means that instead of doing: > > > > > xmlns="urn:ietf:params:xml:ns:netconf:base:1.0" > > xmlns:yang="urn:ietf:params:xml:ns:yang:1"> > > > > > > > > apache-1 > > > > 2014-07-29T13:42Z > > > > > > > > > > > > > > we'd do: > > > > > xmlns="urn:ietf:params:xml:ns:netconf:base:1.0" > > xmlns:yang="urn:ietf:params:xml:ns:yang:1"> > > > > > > apache-1 > > > > 2014-07-29T13:42Z > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > /martin -- Juergen Schoenwaelder Jacobs University Bremen gGmbH Phone: +49 421 200 3587 Campus Ring 1, 28759 Bremen, Germany Fax: +49 421 200 3103 From nobody Thu Nov 13 11:45:46 2014 Return-Path: X-Original-To: netmod@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: netmod@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id CAAF51ACE61 for ; Thu, 13 Nov 2014 11:45:42 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.144 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.144 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, HELO_EQ_DE=0.35, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, RP_MATCHES_RCVD=-0.594] autolearn=ham Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id rFYUuh4-taJF for ; Thu, 13 Nov 2014 11:45:37 -0800 (PST) Received: from atlas3.jacobs-university.de (atlas3.jacobs-university.de [212.201.44.18]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher AECDH-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id BAAD21ACE54 for ; Thu, 13 Nov 2014 11:45:36 -0800 (PST) Received: from localhost (demetrius5.irc-it.jacobs-university.de [10.70.0.222]) by atlas3.jacobs-university.de (Postfix) with ESMTP id 89AEC100D; Thu, 13 Nov 2014 20:45:35 +0100 (CET) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at jacobs-university.de Received: from atlas3.jacobs-university.de ([10.70.0.220]) by localhost (demetrius5.jacobs-university.de [10.70.0.222]) (amavisd-new, port 10030) with ESMTP id bivMziUqE9lR; Thu, 13 Nov 2014 20:45:12 +0100 (CET) Received: from hermes.jacobs-university.de (hermes.jacobs-university.de [212.201.44.23]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (Client CN "hermes.jacobs-university.de", Issuer "Jacobs University CA - G01" (verified OK)) by atlas3.jacobs-university.de (Postfix) with ESMTPS; Thu, 13 Nov 2014 20:45:34 +0100 (CET) Received: from localhost (demetrius1.jacobs-university.de [212.201.44.46]) by hermes.jacobs-university.de (Postfix) with ESMTP id 91B7C20017; Thu, 13 Nov 2014 20:45:34 +0100 (CET) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at jacobs-university.de Received: from hermes.jacobs-university.de ([212.201.44.23]) by localhost (demetrius1.jacobs-university.de [212.201.44.32]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id aduWs0DqOP1e; Thu, 13 Nov 2014 20:45:33 +0100 (CET) Received: from elstar.local (elstar.jacobs.jacobs-university.de [10.50.231.133]) by hermes.jacobs-university.de (Postfix) with ESMTP id C232720013; Thu, 13 Nov 2014 20:45:32 +0100 (CET) Received: by elstar.local (Postfix, from userid 501) id B5DE22F819B5; Thu, 13 Nov 2014 20:45:32 +0100 (CET) Date: Thu, 13 Nov 2014 20:45:32 +0100 From: Juergen Schoenwaelder To: "Clyde Wildes (cwildes)" Message-ID: <20141113194532.GC62321@elstar.local> Mail-Followup-To: "Clyde Wildes (cwildes)" , "netmod@ietf.org" References: <78DA780D-3E80-47EC-8FE3-36F2597C2764@cisco.com> <20141113181104.GA62061@elstar.local> <77DD35F2-785F-4FAB-89B8-856C078D3BF0@cisco.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <77DD35F2-785F-4FAB-89B8-856C078D3BF0@cisco.com> User-Agent: Mutt/1.4.2.3i Archived-At: http://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/netmod/5y_6e0emQN-gVeOudL7FPamfsp0 Cc: "netmod@ietf.org" Subject: Re: [netmod] IETF Syslog Model Flaw X-BeenThere: netmod@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list Reply-To: Juergen Schoenwaelder List-Id: NETMOD WG list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 13 Nov 2014 19:45:43 -0000 On Thu, Nov 13, 2014 at 07:01:14PM +0000, Clyde Wildes (cwildes) wrote: > Juergen, > > Thanks for your review. > > One of the network element operating systems that I have been working with > requires prior knowledge of ip-type in order to configure remote access. > If you feel strongly about this we can leave the model alone and augment > for the ip-type. Regarding mandatory: I agree that if we leave it in, it > should not be mandatory. If this is not a common requirement, then I would prefer to leave it out. Things like rsyslogd etc. do not seem to require this. That said, there should perhaps be a warning in the description clause that relying on DNS name resolution may cause some log messages to be lost. In order to reduce the likelihood of messages lost due to DNS resolution time, it may be a good idea to configure an IP address instead of a name. /js -- Juergen Schoenwaelder Jacobs University Bremen gGmbH Phone: +49 421 200 3587 Campus Ring 1, 28759 Bremen, Germany Fax: +49 421 200 3103 From nobody Thu Nov 13 11:51:57 2014 Return-Path: X-Original-To: netmod@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: netmod@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 90F4F1ACE1B for ; Thu, 13 Nov 2014 11:51:54 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.496 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.496 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, RP_MATCHES_RCVD=-0.594, SPF_HELO_PASS=-0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id OV8OnJcu3-72 for ; Thu, 13 Nov 2014 11:51:53 -0800 (PST) Received: from lucidvision.com (lucidvision.com [72.71.250.34]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id E36981ABD3E for ; Thu, 13 Nov 2014 11:51:52 -0800 (PST) Received: from dhcp-8f5a.meeting.ietf.org (dhcp-8f5a.meeting.ietf.org [31.133.143.90]) by lucidvision.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id CE702292FE29; Thu, 13 Nov 2014 14:51:51 -0500 (EST) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 8.0 \(1990.1\)) From: "Thomas D. Nadeau" In-Reply-To: <20141113192003.GA62229@elstar.local> Date: Thu, 13 Nov 2014 09:51:50 -1000 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Message-Id: References: <10953EAE-A5EB-4AB4-84E9-2701856AAC1E@nic.cz> <20141113.200224.70446226.mbj@tail-f.com> <20141113192003.GA62229@elstar.local> To: Juergen Schoenwaelder X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.1990.1) Archived-At: http://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/netmod/B0wCDpCaznbiZ8klMCmEhxosFow Cc: netmod@ietf.org Subject: Re: [netmod] separate state and config X-BeenThere: netmod@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: NETMOD WG list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 13 Nov 2014 19:51:54 -0000 That is probably up to the "application" making the call. It = can just retry of course. --Tom > On Nov 13, 2014:9:20 AM, at 9:20 AM, Juergen Schoenwaelder = wrote: >=20 > On Thu, Nov 13, 2014 at 08:02:24PM +0100, Martin Bjorklund wrote: >=20 >> If you write something through RESTCONF, it immediately shows up in >> get-config(running) in NETCONF. >=20 > Out of curiosity: What happens if running is locked? I get a 409 > Conflict HTTP error response? >=20 > /js >=20 > --=20 > Juergen Schoenwaelder Jacobs University Bremen gGmbH > Phone: +49 421 200 3587 Campus Ring 1, 28759 Bremen, Germany > Fax: +49 421 200 3103 >=20 > _______________________________________________ > netmod mailing list > netmod@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/netmod >=20 From nobody Thu Nov 13 12:02:19 2014 Return-Path: X-Original-To: netmod@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: netmod@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id E245E1ACFEE for ; Thu, 13 Nov 2014 12:02:14 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.979 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.979 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, FM_FORGED_GMAIL=0.622, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW=-0.7, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id cOSP1ClS7wQ3 for ; Thu, 13 Nov 2014 12:02:12 -0800 (PST) Received: from mail-qa0-f51.google.com (mail-qa0-f51.google.com [209.85.216.51]) (using TLSv1 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-RC4-SHA (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id D8F461ACFA1 for ; Thu, 13 Nov 2014 12:02:08 -0800 (PST) Received: by mail-qa0-f51.google.com with SMTP id f12so10375209qad.24 for ; Thu, 13 Nov 2014 12:02:08 -0800 (PST) X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20130820; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:in-reply-to:references:date :message-id:subject:from:to:content-type; bh=9TLacjHKqyHm+T5Pmp9UrKvwFqSzJWRUYCRTdXoDzvs=; b=XZZjDOlS4ewL5uipBsV6BI7xvfJVP63oJNLXjBMwDBVtXgtO2/KBFxX1aYSf4Hlqfg LpJe71XwBJ/G+a3WnLD2Xt+qPE+3evmtNt3Xhn7R05ASx3bAM7gVAAE5FvZo3veRhi3y Rb8BOQ30uIh3mTUS/p23oVdcce71CUnneBuraBTZmYvzo5pDOT4NrsQO9hPF9rzDcHgP iG0F4Wy4SJ6rgi2VRnop9zD+UN5BXl4+PsvhVUJHHS/mVKaI/tQyb9oLgu9bNG6YW93y GcTMWUlgL9g6brt5ySlsqIxiERcSy1Y7If+X/cEl9SZTNwPDVYXFFCQUMz/Mny4e9xjO xreA== X-Gm-Message-State: ALoCoQnfmVaqbedXV8yGFVwaVIaf5oSrIZP9q6W/ullwhxWYcNN3kvHwmh3ADbcX3bVcJ5CtYdcx MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Received: by 10.140.34.21 with SMTP id k21mr5399969qgk.21.1415908927813; Thu, 13 Nov 2014 12:02:07 -0800 (PST) Received: by 10.140.37.52 with HTTP; Thu, 13 Nov 2014 12:02:07 -0800 (PST) In-Reply-To: <20141113194005.GB62321@elstar.local> References: <20141105141403.GE24310@elstar.local> <20141105.155554.113656028962485180.mbj@tail-f.com> <20141113194005.GB62321@elstar.local> Date: Thu, 13 Nov 2014 12:02:07 -0800 Message-ID: From: Andy Bierman To: Juergen Schoenwaelder , Andy Bierman , Martin Bjorklund , "netmod@ietf.org" Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Archived-At: http://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/netmod/OeoDGGLv5_ymBjhz9vd--eWI9h8 Subject: Re: [netmod] VRFY :Y58: associate an actions with a data node X-BeenThere: netmod@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: NETMOD WG list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 13 Nov 2014 20:02:15 -0000 On Thu, Nov 13, 2014 at 11:40 AM, Juergen Schoenwaelder wrote: > Andy, > > given Martin's clarification, are you find the proposed resolution of > Y58? I do not see any text proposing how to fix NACM. Adding actions and notifications to the datastore is an architectural hack. The ARCH (RFC 6244) needs to support it. NACM (RFC 6536) needs to support it. I strongly object to adding this feature to YANG without proper support in all protocols that use YANG. The feature is nice-to-have, not required to fix anything broken. But if the fix is half-baked and incomplete across all impacted standards, then I cannot support it anymore. > > /js Andy > > On Thu, Nov 06, 2014 at 07:38:16AM -0800, Andy Bierman wrote: >> Hi, >> >> OK, I thought Juergen meant the generic data wrapper, >> not the literal element wrapper. That is fine. >> >> But what about NACM? We are the co-authors, and I think >> we are willing to do the editing, but it is up to the IESG to >> charter and the WG to do the work. >> >> What about I2RS requirements for owner-based access-control? >> IMO NACM is applied first. Owner priority applies when the >> data already exists (both clients have NACM permission). >> It is not clear if any changes to NACM are required to support I2RS. >> >> >> Andy >> >> >> On Wed, Nov 5, 2014 at 6:55 AM, Martin Bjorklund wrote: >> > Andy Bierman wrote: >> >> On Wed, Nov 5, 2014 at 6:14 AM, Juergen Schoenwaelder >> >> wrote: >> >> > The 2014-10-15 virtual interim meeting proposal is to use the encoding >> >> > but to remove the data wrapper. In addition, issue Y36 should be >> >> > opened again, asking for proposals how to encode notifications >> >> > associated with data nodes. >> >> > >> >> >> >> >> >> I do not remember that we agreed to remove the data wrapper >> >> (meaning the instance information for the action). >> > >> > NOTE: this means that instead of doing: >> > >> > > > xmlns="urn:ietf:params:xml:ns:netconf:base:1.0" >> > xmlns:yang="urn:ietf:params:xml:ns:yang:1"> >> > >> > >> > >> > apache-1 >> > >> > 2014-07-29T13:42Z >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > we'd do: >> > >> > > > xmlns="urn:ietf:params:xml:ns:netconf:base:1.0" >> > xmlns:yang="urn:ietf:params:xml:ns:yang:1"> >> > >> > >> > apache-1 >> > >> > 2014-07-29T13:42Z >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > /martin > > -- > Juergen Schoenwaelder Jacobs University Bremen gGmbH > Phone: +49 421 200 3587 Campus Ring 1, 28759 Bremen, Germany > Fax: +49 421 200 3103 From nobody Thu Nov 13 12:09:57 2014 Return-Path: X-Original-To: netmod@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: netmod@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3A6F81ACE2C for ; Thu, 13 Nov 2014 12:09:55 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.979 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.979 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, FM_FORGED_GMAIL=0.622, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW=-0.7, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id dzJqQwItbRh3 for ; Thu, 13 Nov 2014 12:09:53 -0800 (PST) Received: from mail-qg0-f50.google.com (mail-qg0-f50.google.com [209.85.192.50]) (using TLSv1 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-RC4-SHA (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 266971ACFF9 for ; Thu, 13 Nov 2014 12:09:28 -0800 (PST) Received: by mail-qg0-f50.google.com with SMTP id e89so98200qgf.23 for ; Thu, 13 Nov 2014 12:09:27 -0800 (PST) X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20130820; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:in-reply-to:references:date :message-id:subject:from:to:cc:content-type :content-transfer-encoding; bh=YlKMlg0k25d/biFqkn/gt8Y4KRtSkm6gTawGziYVjUU=; b=Rl/Uy4BEMe0+SG0Z9zRcbfgydL6lbgXfdYTie1PtjoCsH3hthwxJ/Swe1MnFnOJo1Y 4kSb3Y5fvwkw2h2zI3Fyo1tBc0lPWRp9lrAk1B1eQuFi5EJdgcY+w9wLAm9VWTyKGekq OS/owEy1Ktql/IIebml2aLtwd9mg8+kaRGxBR+aVBzquBij1YQ6Z8K8hN6xPwShZzPD8 ZQt/kB75T9N6SPMl5FL2II1GfHNgMBVqja1jMYG6sw51jDpAAg09vdINMBQks4n7RovS XCpP0KG0Y2x/3eSf6DB76liW4wCwfTWm4w9XckZx40xPnBpjrgVfXeHtl2mSzQKJGOyP 6iFw== X-Gm-Message-State: ALoCoQntRjkdBxUdQ6zfFAIEEDxUTdEYKzXj9nuiw6jCtG5zguiuqGt2zIQez+IjxwWz5ZhMFbfD MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Received: by 10.140.92.148 with SMTP id b20mr5561734qge.35.1415909367366; Thu, 13 Nov 2014 12:09:27 -0800 (PST) Received: by 10.140.37.52 with HTTP; Thu, 13 Nov 2014 12:09:27 -0800 (PST) In-Reply-To: <10953EAE-A5EB-4AB4-84E9-2701856AAC1E@nic.cz> References: <10953EAE-A5EB-4AB4-84E9-2701856AAC1E@nic.cz> Date: Thu, 13 Nov 2014 12:09:27 -0800 Message-ID: From: Andy Bierman To: Ladislav Lhotka Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Archived-At: http://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/netmod/3opbFT-vWg2L77XuFk-1qRdd0zY Cc: NETMOD Working Group Subject: Re: [netmod] separate state and config X-BeenThere: netmod@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: NETMOD WG list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 13 Nov 2014 20:09:55 -0000 On Thu, Nov 13, 2014 at 10:50 AM, Ladislav Lhotka wrote: > Hi, > > I think $subj needs more discussion because there still seem to be disagr= eements whether separate config and state trees are necessary or not. > > Maybe the answer can be different for NETCONF and RESTCONF. In NETCONF, i= n something changes in the system (e.g. an interface card is installed), st= ate data is the only safe place where the system can record the change. Wri= ting it to running is problematic because (1) running may be locked, or (2)= running and candidate may get out of sync and the client then might not be= able to commit. > > In contrast, neither (1) nor (2) is an issue for RESTCONF=E2=80=99s unifi= ed datastore, and so system-generated writes are probably safe. > > That would however mean that data models written primarily for RESTCONF m= ight have problems if used with NETCONF, which is IMO not good. We made locking mandatory-to-implement but optional-to-use. We decided to live with the consequences of that decision. Editing without locking is prone to failures. So what? Use locking if you care about that. If other protocols interact with the config to produce operational state, then the data model should account for that. Whether or not the non-config nodes are child nod= es of config nodes or standalone data structures makes no difference here. If an instance of foo-state can exist even if the corresponding foo-config instance does not exist, then separate trees are needed. Otherwise they are not. > > Lada > Andy > -- > Ladislav Lhotka, CZ.NIC Labs > PGP Key ID: E74E8C0C > > > > > _______________________________________________ > netmod mailing list > netmod@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/netmod From nobody Thu Nov 13 12:45:26 2014 Return-Path: X-Original-To: netmod@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: netmod@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6D12F1AD3D2 for ; Thu, 13 Nov 2014 12:45:21 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.144 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.144 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, HELO_EQ_DE=0.35, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, RP_MATCHES_RCVD=-0.594] autolearn=ham Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id B-HqAOxL0jRz for ; Thu, 13 Nov 2014 12:45:19 -0800 (PST) Received: from atlas3.jacobs-university.de (atlas3.jacobs-university.de [212.201.44.18]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher AECDH-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id B74EF1AD3CF for ; Thu, 13 Nov 2014 12:44:58 -0800 (PST) Received: from localhost (demetrius5.irc-it.jacobs-university.de [10.70.0.222]) by atlas3.jacobs-university.de (Postfix) with ESMTP id 82AC5E7C; Thu, 13 Nov 2014 21:44:57 +0100 (CET) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at jacobs-university.de Received: from atlas3.jacobs-university.de ([10.70.0.220]) by localhost (demetrius5.jacobs-university.de [10.70.0.222]) (amavisd-new, port 10030) with ESMTP id wDJhX8KgLCsT; Thu, 13 Nov 2014 21:44:34 +0100 (CET) Received: from hermes.jacobs-university.de (hermes.jacobs-university.de [212.201.44.23]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (Client CN "hermes.jacobs-university.de", Issuer "Jacobs University CA - G01" (verified OK)) by atlas3.jacobs-university.de (Postfix) with ESMTPS; Thu, 13 Nov 2014 21:44:57 +0100 (CET) Received: from localhost (demetrius3.jacobs-university.de [212.201.44.48]) by hermes.jacobs-university.de (Postfix) with ESMTP id 060B720017; Thu, 13 Nov 2014 21:44:57 +0100 (CET) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at jacobs-university.de Received: from hermes.jacobs-university.de ([212.201.44.23]) by localhost (demetrius3.jacobs-university.de [212.201.44.32]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 54Gyk37P8tOh; Thu, 13 Nov 2014 21:44:56 +0100 (CET) Received: from elstar.local (elstar.jacobs.jacobs-university.de [10.50.231.133]) by hermes.jacobs-university.de (Postfix) with ESMTP id D356820013; Thu, 13 Nov 2014 21:44:55 +0100 (CET) Received: by elstar.local (Postfix, from userid 501) id CB1DA2F81B34; Thu, 13 Nov 2014 21:44:54 +0100 (CET) Date: Thu, 13 Nov 2014 21:44:54 +0100 From: Juergen Schoenwaelder To: "Thomas D. Nadeau" Message-ID: <20141113204454.GA62873@elstar.local> Mail-Followup-To: "Thomas D. Nadeau" , Martin Bjorklund , netmod@ietf.org References: <10953EAE-A5EB-4AB4-84E9-2701856AAC1E@nic.cz> <20141113.200224.70446226.mbj@tail-f.com> <20141113192003.GA62229@elstar.local> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: User-Agent: Mutt/1.4.2.3i Archived-At: http://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/netmod/NCFZp2lYB_J4g91Vc1EKzXJo-Zc Cc: netmod@ietf.org Subject: Re: [netmod] separate state and config X-BeenThere: netmod@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list Reply-To: Juergen Schoenwaelder List-Id: NETMOD WG list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 13 Nov 2014 20:45:21 -0000 On Thu, Nov 13, 2014 at 09:51:50AM -1000, Thomas D. Nadeau wrote: > > That is probably up to the "application" making the call. It can just retry of course. > Tom, I was asking about the server behaviour and that better is clearly defined (and it seems it is). /js -- Juergen Schoenwaelder Jacobs University Bremen gGmbH Phone: +49 421 200 3587 Campus Ring 1, 28759 Bremen, Germany Fax: +49 421 200 3103 From nobody Thu Nov 13 13:26:50 2014 Return-Path: X-Original-To: netmod@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: netmod@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1BB1C1AD622 for ; Thu, 13 Nov 2014 13:26:43 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.496 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.496 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, RP_MATCHES_RCVD=-0.594, SPF_HELO_PASS=-0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 9e2AHCv_7UTw for ; Thu, 13 Nov 2014 13:26:41 -0800 (PST) Received: from lucidvision.com (lucidvision.com [72.71.250.34]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id DB8131AD636 for ; Thu, 13 Nov 2014 13:24:48 -0800 (PST) Received: from dhcp-8f5a.meeting.ietf.org (dhcp-8f5a.meeting.ietf.org [31.133.143.90]) by lucidvision.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id C71B429306E6 for ; Thu, 13 Nov 2014 16:24:47 -0500 (EST) From: "Thomas D. Nadeau" Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Message-Id: Date: Thu, 13 Nov 2014 11:23:13 -1000 To: NETMOD Working Group Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 8.0 \(1990.1\)) X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.1990.1) Archived-At: http://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/netmod/O73j1U5wW-fU7VsuGOcu-TVirCQ Subject: [netmod] jabber scribe + etherpad scribe needed X-BeenThere: netmod@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: NETMOD WG list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 13 Nov 2014 21:26:43 -0000 I am looking for volunteers to jabber scribe and take notes via = etherpad for this afternoon's meeting. --Tom From nobody Thu Nov 13 13:26:57 2014 Return-Path: X-Original-To: netmod@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: netmod@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id D962D1AD622 for ; Thu, 13 Nov 2014 13:26:48 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.496 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.496 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, RP_MATCHES_RCVD=-0.594, SPF_HELO_PASS=-0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id PJHAg3A3NPUr for ; Thu, 13 Nov 2014 13:26:44 -0800 (PST) Received: from lucidvision.com (lucidvision.com [72.71.250.34]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id F091E1AD5D6 for ; Thu, 13 Nov 2014 13:24:49 -0800 (PST) Received: from dhcp-8f5a.meeting.ietf.org (dhcp-8f5a.meeting.ietf.org [31.133.143.90]) by lucidvision.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 13AF729306E9 for ; Thu, 13 Nov 2014 16:24:48 -0500 (EST) From: "Thomas D. Nadeau" Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Message-Id: Date: Thu, 13 Nov 2014 11:23:52 -1000 To: NETMOD Working Group Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 8.0 \(1990.1\)) X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.1990.1) Archived-At: http://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/netmod/ueIGmp7azQMHE2XvoqxiFn2dVRw Subject: [netmod] jabber scribe + etherpad scribe needed X-BeenThere: netmod@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: NETMOD WG list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 13 Nov 2014 21:26:49 -0000 From nobody Thu Nov 13 13:39:50 2014 Return-Path: X-Original-To: netmod@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: netmod@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id C4C3D1AD6EA for ; Thu, 13 Nov 2014 13:39:41 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: 1.504 X-Spam-Level: * X-Spam-Status: No, score=1.504 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Delivered-To: netmod@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6B5E51AE2B1 for ; Thu, 13 Nov 2014 15:17:29 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.9 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.9 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9] autolearn=ham Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id pWX9aUrAd0CK for ; Thu, 13 Nov 2014 15:17:27 -0800 (PST) Received: from trail.lhotka.name (trail.lhotka.name [77.48.224.143]) (using TLSv1.1 with cipher AECDH-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 497781AE257 for ; Thu, 13 Nov 2014 15:16:57 -0800 (PST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by trail.lhotka.name (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7AD7754064C; Fri, 14 Nov 2014 00:16:54 +0100 (CET) Received: from trail.lhotka.name ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (trail.lhotka.name [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id uktuCXInosEU; Fri, 14 Nov 2014 00:16:50 +0100 (CET) Received: from localhost (dhcp-a2d4.meeting.ietf.org [31.133.162.212]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by trail.lhotka.name (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 5D57C5402A3; Fri, 14 Nov 2014 00:16:48 +0100 (CET) From: Ladislav Lhotka To: Martin Bjorklund In-Reply-To: <20141113.200224.70446226.mbj@tail-f.com> References: <10953EAE-A5EB-4AB4-84E9-2701856AAC1E@nic.cz> <20141113.200224.70446226.mbj@tail-f.com> User-Agent: Notmuch/0.18.1 (http://notmuchmail.org) Emacs/24.4.51.2 (x86_64-apple-darwin14.0.0) Date: Thu, 13 Nov 2014 13:16:44 -1000 Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Archived-At: http://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/netmod/4Ud_UKdeGed154UxGqrXY4gQNak Cc: netmod@ietf.org Subject: Re: [netmod] separate state and config X-BeenThere: netmod@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: NETMOD WG list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 13 Nov 2014 23:17:29 -0000 Martin Bjorklund writes: > Lada, > > The intention is not that RESTCONF has a *separate* datastore than > NETCONF - it just provides unified access to > startup/running/candidate. If you write something through RESTCONF, > it immediately shows up in get-config(running) in NETCONF. > But that's your choice, right? If I don't need a parallel access via NETCONF, is there anything that prevents me from implementing just the unified datastore, pretty much 1:1 to what's presented to the RESTCONF client? Lada > > /martin > > > Ladislav Lhotka wrote: >> Hi, >>=20 >> I think $subj needs more discussion because there still seem to be >> disagreements whether separate config and state trees are necessary or n= ot. >>=20 >> Maybe the answer can be different for NETCONF and RESTCONF. In NETCONF, = in >> something changes in the system (e.g. an interface card is installed), s= tate >> data is the only safe place where the system can record the change. Writ= ing it >> to running is problematic because (1) running may be locked, or (2) runn= ing and >> candidate may get out of sync and the client then might not be able to c= ommit. >>=20 >> In contrast, neither (1) nor (2) is an issue for RESTCONF=E2=80=99s unif= ied datastore, >> and so system-generated writes are probably safe. >>=20 >> That would however mean that data models written primarily for RESTCONF = might >> have problems if used with NETCONF, which is IMO not good. >>=20 >> Lada >>=20=20 >> -- >> Ladislav Lhotka, CZ.NIC Labs >> PGP Key ID: E74E8C0C >>=20 >>=20 >>=20 >>=20 >> _______________________________________________ >> netmod mailing list >> netmod@ietf.org >> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/netmod >>=20 --=20 Ladislav Lhotka, CZ.NIC Labs PGP Key ID: E74E8C0C From nobody Thu Nov 13 16:13:53 2014 Return-Path: X-Original-To: netmod@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: netmod@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id F3B401A0118 for ; Thu, 13 Nov 2014 16:13:47 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.9 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.9 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9] autolearn=ham Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id uZHP3tOZ9ABw for ; Thu, 13 Nov 2014 16:13:44 -0800 (PST) Received: from trail.lhotka.name (trail.lhotka.name [77.48.224.143]) (using TLSv1.1 with cipher AECDH-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id DC4771A00FD for ; Thu, 13 Nov 2014 16:13:36 -0800 (PST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by trail.lhotka.name (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2CA0654064C; Fri, 14 Nov 2014 01:13:35 +0100 (CET) Received: from trail.lhotka.name ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (trail.lhotka.name [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id oPDp-uBi1Xwk; Fri, 14 Nov 2014 01:13:30 +0100 (CET) Received: from localhost (dhcp-a2d4.meeting.ietf.org [31.133.162.212]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by trail.lhotka.name (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 209B154019C; Fri, 14 Nov 2014 01:13:28 +0100 (CET) From: Ladislav Lhotka To: Jernej Tuljak In-Reply-To: <5460B564.1080609@mg-soft.com> References: <545C8E9D.2070100@mg-soft.com> <20141107.175029.05408351.mbj@tail-f.com> <67F95011-6886-44FD-B42F-5B3A46F86056@nic.cz> <5460B564.1080609@mg-soft.com> User-Agent: Notmuch/0.18.1 (http://notmuchmail.org) Emacs/24.4.51.2 (x86_64-apple-darwin14.0.0) Date: Thu, 13 Nov 2014 14:13:23 -1000 Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Archived-At: http://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/netmod/X4uGYa_gKPGXdxuDK-Wk__GY-5U Cc: netmod@ietf.org Subject: Re: [netmod] I-D Action: draft-ietf-netmod-rfc6087bis-01.txt X-BeenThere: netmod@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: NETMOD WG list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 14 Nov 2014 00:13:48 -0000 Jernej Tuljak writes: > Dne 7.11.2014 20:59, pi=C5=A1e Ladislav Lhotka: >> On 07 Nov 2014, at 18:28, Ladislav Lhotka wrote: >> >>> Martin Bjorklund writes: >>> >>>> Andy Bierman wrote: >>>>> On Fri, Nov 7, 2014 at 6:40 AM, Ladislav Lhotka wrote: >>>>>> Jernej Tuljak writes: >>>>>> >>>>>>> Dne 5.11.2014 16:07, pi=C5=A1e Andy Bierman: >>>>>>>> Hi, >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Can you suggest replacement text for the specific details you do n= ot like? >>>>>>>> I will look into your comments on the Axes and Wildcards sections. >>>>>>> See below. >>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Andy >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> On Wed, Nov 5, 2014 at 5:18 AM, Jernej Tuljak >>>>>>>> wrote: >>>>>>>>> (now replying to the proper thread) >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> I see that the issues I raised regarding XPath expressions >>>>>>>>> (http://www.ietf.org/mail-archive/web/netmod/current/msg10172.htm= l) have >>>>>>>>> now >>>>>>>>> made it into rfc6087bis-01 section 5.5. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Section 5.5.1, what should a YANG compiler return for 'namespace-= uri()' >>>>>>>>> and >>>>>>>>> 'name()' function if they are used? >>>>>>> OLD: >>>>>>> The 'namespace-uri' and 'name' functions SHOULD NOT be used. >>>>>>> Expanded names in XPath are different than YANG. A specific >>>>>>> canonical representation of a YANG expanded name does not exist. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> NEW: >>>>>>> The 'namespace-uri' and 'name' functions SHOULD NOT be used. >>>>>>> Expanded names in XPath are different than YANG. A specific >>>>>>> canonical representation of a YANG expanded name does not exist. >>>>>>> The YANG compiler SHOULD return an empty string for both of >>>>>>> these functions. >>>>>> While I agree these functions (and perhaps local-name(), too) should= not >>>>>> be used, I don't understand the reasoning. Why are expanded names >>>>>> different? The context for XPath evaluation has to be an XML documen= t. >>>>>> >>>>> I think you are right. Since the namespace-stmt is mapped to the >>>>> XML expanded name part when parsing XML, the YANG compiler >>>>> can just return the namespace-stmt value for the current module. >>>> +1 This is what our implementation does. > > +1 This is what our validator implementation currently does too. > >>>> >>>> But the 'name' is more problematic. When the input is an XML >>>> document, it returns a prefixed name if there is a prefix for the >>>> namespace in teh XML source, or unprefixed if no such prefix is >>>> declared. It is pretty clear that it SHOULD NOT be used... or at >>>> least the result is implementation dependent. >>> Or the prefix could always be the argument of the corresponding "prefix" >>> statement (by definition). >> Actually, it is exactly what the first bullet in sec. 6.4.1 (XPath Conte= xt) implies. > > What about augmented nodes - nodes from foreign namespaces - not=20 > covered by this bullet? The augmenting module could easily introduce a=20 > prefix clash. Also, accessible trees might be made up of data nodes > from If the XPath expression is inside an augment then its context is derived from the augmenting module. > modules that had their prefixes obfuscated due to prefix clash=20 > resolution (DSDL plugin of pyang does it as specified by RFC6110). An=20 > instance would probably contain those, not original prefixes. Yes, because then we deal with a real XML document and not a conceptual one. > > It would be nice to have as many standard functions as possible do=20 > something but I think tolerating 'name' might be pushing it. It is=20 > inherently instance dependent per XPath spec. Can you come up with a=20 > useful use case for it within a YANG model? If not, it would be safer to= =20 > just say SHOULD NOT be used. Yes, I agree. Lada > > Jernej > >> >> Lada >> >>> Lada >>> >>>> >>>> /martin >>> --=20 >>> Ladislav Lhotka, CZ.NIC Labs >>> PGP Key ID: E74E8C0C >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> netmod mailing list >>> netmod@ietf.org >>> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/netmod >> -- >> Ladislav Lhotka, CZ.NIC Labs >> PGP Key ID: E74E8C0C >> >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> netmod mailing list >> netmod@ietf.org >> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/netmod > --=20 Ladislav Lhotka, CZ.NIC Labs PGP Key ID: E74E8C0C From nobody Thu Nov 13 16:30:23 2014 Return-Path: X-Original-To: netmod@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: netmod@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id B40041A016A for ; Thu, 13 Nov 2014 16:30:16 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -4.201 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-4.201 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-2.3, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id t7HQfZ1QyxQ2 for ; Thu, 13 Nov 2014 16:30:14 -0800 (PST) Received: from sesbmg23.ericsson.net (sesbmg23.ericsson.net [193.180.251.37]) (using TLSv1 with cipher DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 35B661A007E for ; Thu, 13 Nov 2014 16:30:14 -0800 (PST) X-AuditID: c1b4fb25-f791c6d00000617b-e8-54654d1219aa Received: from ESGSCHC001.ericsson.se (Unknown_Domain [153.88.253.124]) by sesbmg23.ericsson.net (Symantec Mail Security) with SMTP id 27.6F.24955.31D45645; Fri, 14 Nov 2014 01:30:12 +0100 (CET) Received: from ESGSCMB103.ericsson.se ([169.254.3.216]) by ESGSCHC001.ericsson.se ([10.0.18.117]) with mapi id 14.03.0174.001; Fri, 14 Nov 2014 08:30:10 +0800 From: Johnson Zhu To: "netmod@ietf.org" , "netconf@itef.org" Thread-Topic: [netmod] how YANG and NETCONF support the long running command (e.g ping) Thread-Index: Ac//oiM/zXhqicIORiS0QZAmPrmG4w== Date: Fri, 14 Nov 2014 00:30:09 +0000 Message-ID: <31BFEF67CF6AC44BBEDE1890158D7377384ED47C@ESGSCMB103.ericsson.se> Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-originating-ip: [146.11.116.8] Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Brightmail-Tracker: H4sIAAAAAAAAA+NgFjrGLMWRmVeSWpSXmKPExsUyM+Jvja6Ib2qIwcIHMhb71z1jsZh/sZHV gcljyZKfTB5zJ69nDmCK4rJJSc3JLEst0rdL4MpYubqFuWA6e0XHfucGxlesXYwcHBICJhIb XrB1MXICmWISF+6tB7K5OIQEjjBKnJsznwXCWcQo8WJhJxNIFZuAjsSa/klgHSICfhJb/p1j B7GFBUIkpu5cwQgRj5R4se0tG8gCEQE9iSN3VEFMFgFViZsrXEAqeAV8JboW3gSbwgi09/up NWDTmQXEJW49mc8EcY+AxJI955khbFGJl4//sULYChIHFi2BqteRWLD7ExuErS2xbOFrZoj5 ghInZz5hmcAoPAvJ2FlIWmYhaZmFpGUBI8sqRtHi1OKk3HQjY73Uoszk4uL8PL281JJNjMCA P7jlt+oOxstvHA8xCnAwKvHwbpBLCRFiTSwrrsw9xCjNwaIkzrvw3LxgIYH0xJLU7NTUgtSi +KLSnNTiQ4xMHJxSDYySoX5ikgmhni/1ldc7hao03Hob/Oqx03Gfa9/qZocf/udxwzxFSLhu kvGz28X19VNfLHx9ax7XY4WTDFv2fnKf+cTmruOD+IIfTP5sZ7Ycc9/+vF5SfHnGfEUugUtc pxi2r1weaTTj9ZIK22cxq13Cr+3P+RnYINUfWnBhN6PBx0Tr3p4lujxKLMUZiYZazEXFiQCP 3mvqWQIAAA== Archived-At: http://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/netmod/f_72TorLSpSzIHoM4ZJboiUpmtA Subject: [netmod] how YANG and NETCONF support the long running command (e.g ping) X-BeenThere: netmod@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: NETMOD WG list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 14 Nov 2014 00:30:17 -0000 Hi, We am trying to understand how YANG and NETCONF support the long running co= mmand (e.g ping) It seems that rpc statement of YANG only contains one-time return value, it= is impossible to feedback each ping ack message to netconf client side. s= o I check if it is discussed in the WG. Here is the summary: One post propose an approach [1] to support long running command which c= an notify ping result via notification channel of yang, but it seems it is = rejected by [2] and there is a similar mechanism [3] in NETCONF WG, but the proposal is= not work group draft yet. [1] - http://www.ietf.org/mail-archive/web/netmod/current/msg09785.html [2] - http://www.ietf.org/mail-archive/web/netmod/current/msg10038.html [3] - http://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-mahesh-netconf-persistent-00 So any recommendation how to proceed/define the long running command? Thanks /Johnson From nobody Thu Nov 13 16:59:59 2014 Return-Path: X-Original-To: netmod@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: netmod@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8B90F1A1A19 for ; Thu, 13 Nov 2014 16:59:57 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.902 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.902 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, SPF_HELO_PASS=-0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id HZUNsfIUgqiL for ; Thu, 13 Nov 2014 16:59:55 -0800 (PST) Received: from na01-bn1-obe.outbound.protection.outlook.com (mail-bn1on0778.outbound.protection.outlook.com [IPv6:2a01:111:f400:fc10::778]) (using TLSv1 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 470701A1A95 for ; Thu, 13 Nov 2014 16:59:55 -0800 (PST) Received: from CO1PR05MB458.namprd05.prod.outlook.com (10.141.72.140) by CO1PR05MB459.namprd05.prod.outlook.com (10.141.72.146) with Microsoft SMTP Server (TLS) id 15.1.16.15; Fri, 14 Nov 2014 00:59:31 +0000 Received: from CO1PR05MB458.namprd05.prod.outlook.com ([169.254.10.239]) by CO1PR05MB458.namprd05.prod.outlook.com ([169.254.10.239]) with mapi id 15.01.0016.006; Fri, 14 Nov 2014 00:59:31 +0000 From: Kent Watsen To: Ladislav Lhotka , Martin Bjorklund Thread-Topic: [netmod] separate state and config Thread-Index: AQHP/3LNgQtQqtBihU6YGHyLINotwpxe6dIAgABHDwD//3URAA== Date: Fri, 14 Nov 2014 00:59:30 +0000 Message-ID: References: <10953EAE-A5EB-4AB4-84E9-2701856AAC1E@nic.cz> <20141113.200224.70446226.mbj@tail-f.com> In-Reply-To: Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: user-agent: Microsoft-MacOutlook/14.4.4.140807 x-originating-ip: [66.129.239.10] x-microsoft-antispam: BCL:0;PCL:0;RULEID:;SRVR:CO1PR05MB459; x-exchange-antispam-report-test: UriScan:; x-exchange-antispam-report-cfa-test: BCL:0;PCL:0;RULEID:;SRVR:CO1PR05MB459; x-forefront-prvs: 03950F25EC x-forefront-antispam-report: SFV:NSPM; SFS:(10019020)(6009001)(199003)(24454002)(189002)(377454003)(479174003)(51704005)(120916001)(99396003)(122556002)(86362001)(92726001)(92566001)(95666004)(21056001)(107046002)(105586002)(40100003)(106356001)(106116001)(99286002)(97736003)(20776003)(36756003)(4396001)(19580405001)(83506001)(19580395003)(64706001)(66066001)(46102003)(87936001)(54356999)(62966003)(50986999)(2656002)(101416001)(31966008)(77156002)(76176999)(77096003); DIR:OUT; SFP:1102; SCL:1; SRVR:CO1PR05MB459; H:CO1PR05MB458.namprd05.prod.outlook.com; FPR:; MLV:sfv; PTR:InfoNoRecords; A:1; MX:1; LANG:en; Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-ID: <3865822DB1F9654CB1DA5F97C0650AAE@namprd05.prod.outlook.com> Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable MIME-Version: 1.0 X-OriginatorOrg: juniper.net Archived-At: http://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/netmod/4xz4i5_re96Zpuyi3drkslr6L3Q Cc: "netmod@ietf.org" Subject: Re: [netmod] separate state and config X-BeenThere: netmod@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: NETMOD WG list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 14 Nov 2014 00:59:57 -0000 On 11/13/14, 1:16 PM, "Ladislav Lhotka" wrote: >Martin Bjorklund writes: > >> Lada, >> >> The intention is not that RESTCONF has a *separate* datastore than >> NETCONF - it just provides unified access to >> startup/running/candidate. If you write something through RESTCONF, >> it immediately shows up in get-config(running) in NETCONF. >> > >But that's your choice, right? If I don't need a parallel access via >NETCONF, is there anything that prevents me from implementing just the >unified datastore, pretty much 1:1 to what's presented to the RESTCONF >client? No, but if just implementing RESTCONF, then the implementation doesn't really have a "unified" datastore, as unification relates to NETCONF's datastores, for which it would have none. For all intents and purposes, the RESTCONF-only server would just have a writable-running datastore. Kent From nobody Thu Nov 13 18:16:40 2014 Return-Path: X-Original-To: netmod@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: netmod@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id F0E071A00A3 for ; Thu, 13 Nov 2014 18:16:33 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.245 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.245 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, HELO_EQ_CZ=0.445, HOST_EQ_CZ=0.904, RP_MATCHES_RCVD=-0.594] autolearn=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id zqfe8Yl-t-Vu for ; Thu, 13 Nov 2014 18:16:29 -0800 (PST) Received: from mail.nic.cz (mail.nic.cz [IPv6:2001:1488:800:400::400]) (using TLSv1 with cipher ADH-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id AE6721A1B25 for ; Thu, 13 Nov 2014 18:16:29 -0800 (PST) Received: from t2001067c037001606489b0936ee93bb6.wireless.v6.meeting.ietf.org (t2001067c037001606489b0936ee93bb6.wireless.v6.meeting.ietf.org [IPv6:2001:67c:370:160:6489:b093:6ee9:3bb6]) by mail.nic.cz (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id F297A14010A; Fri, 14 Nov 2014 03:16:25 +0100 (CET) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=simple/simple; d=nic.cz; s=default; t=1415931387; bh=qD2po4jgTIz+Zfci540f/7KhREnr3qn8dSRfrSzq9Zg=; h=Content-Type:Mime-Version:Subject:From:In-Reply-To:Date:Cc: Content-Transfer-Encoding:Message-Id:References:To; b=JGp+wf6pthnDl9pw1zL736psfX9drLGOjyN0fuGUHvd1zbwYekL98HHDOFmyP0Isa PIdNs3mu1M8i0cB0uYazqQarYBGQ6jY7NjXb+JAGuLTIbLoHYkhGeF0xWd+z7cApVw NVQSqxqBdmyB3LbiLVDzCOrxySjLMVFZNPacHjeA= Content-Type: text/plain; charset=windows-1252 Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 7.3 \(1878.6\)) From: Ladislav Lhotka In-Reply-To: Date: Thu, 13 Nov 2014 16:16:18 -1000 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Message-Id: <6F42CD5D-007A-4420-AE2C-B135DC153FA7@nic.cz> References: <10953EAE-A5EB-4AB4-84E9-2701856AAC1E@nic.cz> <20141113.200224.70446226.mbj@tail-f.com> To: Kent Watsen X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.1878.6) X-Virus-Scanned: clamav-milter 0.98.1 at mail X-Virus-Status: Clean Archived-At: http://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/netmod/xmANxtnP0TVlSnGyyDxJXxfqSWw Cc: "netmod@ietf.org" Subject: Re: [netmod] separate state and config X-BeenThere: netmod@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: NETMOD WG list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 14 Nov 2014 02:16:37 -0000 On 13 Nov 2014, at 14:59, Kent Watsen wrote: >=20 >=20 > On 11/13/14, 1:16 PM, "Ladislav Lhotka" wrote: >=20 >> Martin Bjorklund writes: >>=20 >>> Lada, >>>=20 >>> The intention is not that RESTCONF has a *separate* datastore than >>> NETCONF - it just provides unified access to >>> startup/running/candidate. If you write something through RESTCONF, >>> it immediately shows up in get-config(running) in NETCONF. >>>=20 >>=20 >> But that's your choice, right? If I don't need a parallel access via >> NETCONF, is there anything that prevents me from implementing just = the >> unified datastore, pretty much 1:1 to what's presented to the = RESTCONF >> client? >=20 >=20 > No, but if just implementing RESTCONF, then the implementation doesn't > really have a "unified" datastore, as unification relates to NETCONF's > datastores, for which it would have none. For all intents and = purposes, > the RESTCONF-only server would just have a writable-running datastore. OK, we can call it that way, but since it cannot be locked, even = system-controlled entries could be safely put in the same lists with = user-controlled ones, which would make the whole thing a lot easier to = model and operate. So I am back at my point: config and state trees = needn=92t be distinct in this case. Lada >=20 > Kent >=20 >=20 >=20 -- Ladislav Lhotka, CZ.NIC Labs PGP Key ID: E74E8C0C From nobody Thu Nov 13 18:57:45 2014 Return-Path: X-Original-To: netmod@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: netmod@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id AA77F1A1B5C for ; Thu, 13 Nov 2014 18:57:43 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.496 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.496 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, RP_MATCHES_RCVD=-0.594, SPF_HELO_PASS=-0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id dBd-Ougxgr2Q for ; Thu, 13 Nov 2014 18:57:42 -0800 (PST) Received: from lucidvision.com (lucidvision.com [72.71.250.34]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 329931A1B3F for ; Thu, 13 Nov 2014 18:57:41 -0800 (PST) Received: from dhcp-b21b.meeting.ietf.org (dhcp-b21b.meeting.ietf.org [31.133.178.27]) by lucidvision.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id C6B8C2931E40 for ; Thu, 13 Nov 2014 21:57:40 -0500 (EST) From: "Thomas D. Nadeau" Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Message-Id: <8686443D-4FCA-44A4-AE86-88EF64244FD5@lucidvision.com> Date: Thu, 13 Nov 2014 16:57:38 -1000 To: NETMOD Working Group Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 8.0 \(1990.1\)) X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.1990.1) Archived-At: http://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/netmod/mvprbI1iKvUeEKffFSddEEZAA48 Subject: [netmod] ether pad for netmod X-BeenThere: netmod@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: NETMOD WG list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 14 Nov 2014 02:57:43 -0000 http://tools.ietf.org/wg/netmod/agenda From nobody Thu Nov 13 19:12:57 2014 Return-Path: X-Original-To: netmod@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: netmod@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 174CB1A1BEC for ; Thu, 13 Nov 2014 19:12:56 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001] autolearn=ham Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id TiM1WamERTa1 for ; Thu, 13 Nov 2014 19:12:53 -0800 (PST) Received: from elasmtp-banded.atl.sa.earthlink.net (elasmtp-banded.atl.sa.earthlink.net [209.86.89.70]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 41EAB1A1BA3 for ; Thu, 13 Nov 2014 19:12:53 -0800 (PST) DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=dk20050327; d=mindspring.com; b=UAObhb41u+ODGDf4/5bCxDPjH4tMwUZTHHvdEDSX60i+H+po6kpxSoVLLblyVbLy; h=Message-ID:Date:From:Reply-To:To:Subject:Mime-Version:Content-Type:Content-Transfer-Encoding:X-Mailer:X-ELNK-Trace:X-Originating-IP; Received: from [209.86.224.29] (helo=mswamui-cedar.atl.sa.earthlink.net) by elasmtp-banded.atl.sa.earthlink.net with esmtpa (Exim 4.67) (envelope-from ) id 1Xp7Jc-0003WQ-7p; Thu, 13 Nov 2014 22:12:52 -0500 Received: from 76.254.48.141 by webmail.earthlink.net with HTTP; Thu, 13 Nov 2014 22:12:52 -0500 Message-ID: <31164871.1415934772256.JavaMail.root@mswamui-cedar.atl.sa.earthlink.net> Date: Thu, 13 Nov 2014 19:12:52 -0800 (GMT-08:00) From: Randy Presuhn To: Johnson Zhu , "netmod@ietf.org" , "netconf@itef.org" Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: EarthLink Zoo Mail 1.0 X-ELNK-Trace: 4488c18417c9426da92b9037bc8bcf44d4c20f6b8d69d88825aa8a2065c9591fbc7bca2fa802b848336e75a1b94f6699350badd9bab72f9c350badd9bab72f9c X-Originating-IP: 209.86.224.29 Archived-At: http://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/netmod/SSClW-Xm4J-hnzMQWvKzYjxW68c Subject: Re: [netmod] how YANG and NETCONF support the long running command (e.g ping) X-BeenThere: netmod@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list Reply-To: Randy Presuhn List-Id: NETMOD WG list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 14 Nov 2014 03:12:56 -0000 Hi - >From: Johnson Zhu >Sent: Nov 13, 2014 4:30 PM >To: "netmod@ietf.org" , "netconf@itef.org" >Subject: [netmod] how YANG and NETCONF support the long running command (e.g ping) ... >So any recommendation how to proceed/define the long running command? ... I'd suggest modeling it in a manner analogous to RFC 4560's approach in the SNMP world. That would let you accomplish your objective without needing to change the protocol or the modeling language. Randy From nobody Thu Nov 13 19:28:40 2014 Return-Path: X-Original-To: netmod@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: netmod@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id A11021A6EE4 for ; Thu, 13 Nov 2014 19:28:37 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -15.094 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-15.094 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_HI=-5, RP_MATCHES_RCVD=-0.594, SPF_PASS=-0.001, USER_IN_DEF_DKIM_WL=-7.5] autolearn=ham Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id rBLtGGNNyn_8 for ; Thu, 13 Nov 2014 19:28:35 -0800 (PST) Received: from alln-iport-2.cisco.com (alln-iport-2.cisco.com [173.37.142.89]) (using TLSv1 with cipher RC4-SHA (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id E70511A03A5 for ; Thu, 13 Nov 2014 19:28:34 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/simple; d=cisco.com; i=@cisco.com; l=7460; q=dns/txt; s=iport; t=1415935716; x=1417145316; h=from:to:subject:date:message-id:mime-version; bh=xS8QGApD8F7p75foHyj68NszbD3rwQXHsdFRXSU5aTc=; b=hU0E+kyHo2c0dCDNN3dwu+3Ncd+A+z0EKizwyf7MIavNTn7PUBMEg7WN ygyfRSM6M3699pKg4oh/62qku6ojPvgEylACyk2X1I186NpbP9+pdWctV GY6/RC4reEjNvj8ok4pv89M65Y6CekyDItVUITxGn3aOT7ozi9u7+6Rlx A=; X-IronPort-Anti-Spam-Filtered: true X-IronPort-Anti-Spam-Result: AhAFAFR2ZVStJV2Z/2dsb2JhbABbgkhGVV3UTwKBIRYBAQEBAXILhAQBBAwhXgEaEFYXDwEEG4g5qm2mDAEBAQEBBQEBAQEBARyQcYNlgR4FkkeNOY4KhzyDfII1gQMBAQE X-IronPort-AV: E=Sophos; i="5.07,382,1413244800"; d="scan'208,217"; a="96514853" Received: from rcdn-core-2.cisco.com ([173.37.93.153]) by alln-iport-2.cisco.com with ESMTP; 14 Nov 2014 03:28:35 +0000 Received: from xhc-rcd-x05.cisco.com (xhc-rcd-x05.cisco.com [173.37.183.79]) by rcdn-core-2.cisco.com (8.14.5/8.14.5) with ESMTP id sAE3SYjx008928 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=AES128-SHA bits=128 verify=FAIL) for ; Fri, 14 Nov 2014 03:28:34 GMT Received: from xmb-rcd-x05.cisco.com ([169.254.15.74]) by xhc-rcd-x05.cisco.com ([173.37.183.79]) with mapi id 14.03.0195.001; Thu, 13 Nov 2014 21:28:33 -0600 From: "Alexander Clemm (alex)" To: "netmod@ietf.org" Thread-Topic: Candidate items for update in the architecture document Thread-Index: Ac//ufU7CI0wsbzyTw+DMZcK2AM3Bw== Date: Fri, 14 Nov 2014 03:28:32 +0000 Message-ID: Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-originating-ip: [10.68.16.18] Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="_000_DBC595ED2346914F9F81D17DD5C32B571C878B6Exmbrcdx05ciscoc_" MIME-Version: 1.0 Archived-At: http://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/netmod/QbmPLBuLE9U9XFenTBbmz2gAHpg Subject: [netmod] Candidate items for update in the architecture document X-BeenThere: netmod@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: NETMOD WG list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 14 Nov 2014 03:28:37 -0000 --_000_DBC595ED2346914F9F81D17DD5C32B571C878B6Exmbrcdx05ciscoc_ Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hi, I did not want to dwell on this in the netmod meeting, but IMHO there are a= few things that may need updating/clarification with regards to the archit= ecture document i.e. RFC 6244. I realize RFC 6244 is informational and it = is "a", not "the" architecture, still it may be useful to consider e.g. the= following: - Separation of the datastore from the protocol/services used to i= nteract with it. Currently, it is tightly bound to Netconf. Given that ot= her transports are being discussed, such as RESTconf, this requires updatin= g. Architecturally it will be useful to clarify they can be separated (as = seems actually implied in RFC 6241, which depicts a content layer clearly s= eparated from the layers below it). - Assumptions regarding physical device boundaries. The doc curre= ntly suggests, at least implicitly, that datastore / Netconf server coincid= es with physical device boundaries (e.g. the diagram in figure 3.1). This = appears unnecessarily constraining, e.g. with regards to virtualization of = networking functions or peer-mount. Thoughts? --- Alex --_000_DBC595ED2346914F9F81D17DD5C32B571C878B6Exmbrcdx05ciscoc_ Content-Type: text/html; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

Hi,

I did not want to dwell on this in the netmod meetin= g, but IMHO there are a few things that may need updating/clarification wit= h regards to the architecture document i.e. RFC 6244.  I realize RFC 6= 244 is informational and it is “a”, not “the” architecture, still it may be useful to consider e.g. th= e following: 

-     &= nbsp;    Separation of the datastore from the protocol/servi= ces used to interact with it.  Currently, it is tightly bound to Netco= nf.  Given that other transports are being discussed, such as RESTconf= , this requires updating.  Architecturally it will be useful to clarify they can be separated (as seems actually impl= ied in RFC 6241, which depicts a content layer clearly separated from the l= ayers below it). 

-     &= nbsp;    Assumptions regarding physical device boundaries.&n= bsp; The doc currently suggests, at least implicitly, that datastore / Netc= onf server coincides with physical device boundaries (e.g. the diagram in f= igure 3.1).  This appears unnecessarily constraining, e.g. with regards to virtualization of networking functions = or peer-mount. 

Thoughts?

--- Alex

--_000_DBC595ED2346914F9F81D17DD5C32B571C878B6Exmbrcdx05ciscoc_-- From nobody Thu Nov 13 19:28:56 2014 Return-Path: X-Original-To: netmod@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: netmod@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 66A2C1A6EE8 for ; Thu, 13 Nov 2014 19:28:52 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.902 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.902 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, SPF_HELO_PASS=-0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id Ri00M6kPe14p for ; Thu, 13 Nov 2014 19:28:49 -0800 (PST) Received: from na01-bl2-obe.outbound.protection.outlook.com (mail-bl2on0130.outbound.protection.outlook.com [65.55.169.130]) (using TLSv1 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 3C7EE1A03A5 for ; Thu, 13 Nov 2014 19:28:49 -0800 (PST) Received: from CO1PR05MB458.namprd05.prod.outlook.com (10.141.72.140) by CO1PR05MB460.namprd05.prod.outlook.com (10.141.72.152) with Microsoft SMTP Server (TLS) id 15.1.16.15; Fri, 14 Nov 2014 03:28:47 +0000 Received: from CO1PR05MB458.namprd05.prod.outlook.com ([169.254.10.239]) by CO1PR05MB458.namprd05.prod.outlook.com ([169.254.10.239]) with mapi id 15.01.0016.006; Fri, 14 Nov 2014 03:28:47 +0000 From: Kent Watsen To: NETMOD Working Group Thread-Topic: [netmod] ether pad for netmod Thread-Index: AQHP/7bHxLrKJ9lfsUKsLRtrPTNwDZxezx2A Date: Fri, 14 Nov 2014 03:28:46 +0000 Message-ID: References: <8686443D-4FCA-44A4-AE86-88EF64244FD5@lucidvision.com> In-Reply-To: <8686443D-4FCA-44A4-AE86-88EF64244FD5@lucidvision.com> Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: user-agent: Microsoft-MacOutlook/14.4.4.140807 x-originating-ip: [66.129.239.10] x-microsoft-antispam: BCL:0;PCL:0;RULEID:;SRVR:CO1PR05MB460; x-exchange-antispam-report-test: UriScan:; x-exchange-antispam-report-cfa-test: BCL:0;PCL:0;RULEID:;SRVR:CO1PR05MB460; x-forefront-prvs: 03950F25EC x-forefront-antispam-report: SFV:NSPM; SFS:(10019020)(6009001)(199003)(24454002)(51704005)(189002)(479174003)(377454003)(19580405001)(19580395003)(86362001)(122556002)(15975445006)(83506001)(99396003)(92566001)(92726001)(120916001)(97736003)(110136001)(99286002)(95666004)(19273905006)(2656002)(101416001)(87936001)(76176999)(106116001)(50986999)(106356001)(54356999)(15202345003)(19625735002)(4396001)(31966008)(105586002)(77156002)(77096003)(20776003)(21056001)(107886001)(107046002)(36756003)(46102003)(62966003)(450100001)(64706001)(40100003)(66066001)(563064011); DIR:OUT; SFP:1102; SCL:1; SRVR:CO1PR05MB460; H:CO1PR05MB458.namprd05.prod.outlook.com; FPR:; PTR:InfoNoRecords; A:1; MX:1; LANG:en; Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-ID: <1D7F85ADB1E62B4EA675762D259E7A0D@namprd05.prod.outlook.com> Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable MIME-Version: 1.0 X-OriginatorOrg: juniper.net Archived-At: http://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/netmod/7AyBBtlfDCfahR0lGxHDDWed9Ec Subject: Re: [netmod] ether pad for netmod X-BeenThere: netmod@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: NETMOD WG list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 14 Nov 2014 03:28:52 -0000 Here's the URL for the Meetecho (live video stream and slides) http://coral-4.conf.meetecho.com/ietf/Index.jsp Kent On 11/13/14, 4:57 PM, "Thomas D. Nadeau" wrote: >http://tools.ietf.org/wg/netmod/agenda > >_______________________________________________ >netmod mailing list >netmod@ietf.org >https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/netmod From nobody Thu Nov 13 20:19:33 2014 Return-Path: X-Original-To: netmod@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: netmod@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1920B1A6EFE for ; Thu, 13 Nov 2014 20:19:31 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.245 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.245 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, HELO_EQ_CZ=0.445, HOST_EQ_CZ=0.904, RP_MATCHES_RCVD=-0.594] autolearn=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id RRnMmiOWdzKm for ; Thu, 13 Nov 2014 20:19:29 -0800 (PST) Received: from mail.nic.cz (mail.nic.cz [IPv6:2001:1488:800:400::400]) (using TLSv1 with cipher ADH-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id AEC011A005E for ; Thu, 13 Nov 2014 20:19:29 -0800 (PST) Received: from t2001067c03700160b1d2391ac0b0017a.wireless.v6.meeting.ietf.org (t2001067c03700160b1d2391ac0b0017a.wireless.v6.meeting.ietf.org [IPv6:2001:67c:370:160:b1d2:391a:c0b0:17a]) by mail.nic.cz (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 66FF513F6B3 for ; Fri, 14 Nov 2014 05:19:26 +0100 (CET) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=simple/simple; d=nic.cz; s=default; t=1415938768; bh=9/AeYmK2ahB8vXw9uDl5lOMzuZN25+9kQagmZA04q5g=; h=From:Content-Type:Content-Transfer-Encoding:Subject:Message-Id: Date:To:Mime-Version; b=K4shzGsF1bZv6+mWBTTT61uqUbrf8vu/outlj6LTWKpb/PO15ccwiHeRsSSwwfxxd b4/6dkvQBR89noMaSMVNFMBP+ADXLjfakBkQMwYbAs9k4uXTLjV+BPSGaAGq/q3lnF sRdOvJhhBmygi6jDXQPQ5yqjb1N7xKtWlCyAnz5g= From: Ladislav Lhotka Content-Type: text/plain; charset=windows-1252 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Message-Id: <94DC2071-0782-4C34-862A-BB38845C1B70@nic.cz> Date: Thu, 13 Nov 2014 18:19:22 -1000 To: NETMOD Working Group Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 7.3 \(1878.6\)) X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.1878.6) X-Virus-Scanned: clamav-milter 0.98.1 at mail X-Virus-Status: Clean Archived-At: http://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/netmod/Ear7JNNge_5x_6iTXdD7jCyiJe4 Subject: [netmod] if-feature in state X-BeenThere: netmod@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: NETMOD WG list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 14 Nov 2014 04:19:31 -0000 Hi, the way in which if-feature was used in state data of the routing model = always had this form: container X { if-feature foo; list Y { =85 } } A server that doesn=92t implement feature foo will simply not populate = the list (there are no min-elements), and then it is allowed to remove = the empty container X. So it seems to me that the if-feature doesn=92t = help in any way. Lada =20 -- Ladislav Lhotka, CZ.NIC Labs PGP Key ID: E74E8C0C From nobody Thu Nov 13 20:23:13 2014 Return-Path: X-Original-To: netmod@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: netmod@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 445D31A005E for ; Thu, 13 Nov 2014 20:23:12 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.495 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.495 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, RP_MATCHES_RCVD=-0.594, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id RhWJ_XtegZJb for ; Thu, 13 Nov 2014 20:23:04 -0800 (PST) Received: from mail.tail-f.com (mail.tail-f.com [83.241.162.140]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 38FAF1A003B for ; Thu, 13 Nov 2014 20:23:04 -0800 (PST) Received: from localhost (unknown [193.13.112.215]) by mail.tail-f.com (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 4C9141280E77; Fri, 14 Nov 2014 05:23:03 +0100 (CET) Date: Fri, 14 Nov 2014 05:23:02 +0100 (CET) Message-Id: <20141114.052302.205810906.mbj@tail-f.com> To: lhotka@nic.cz From: Martin Bjorklund In-Reply-To: <94DC2071-0782-4C34-862A-BB38845C1B70@nic.cz> References: <94DC2071-0782-4C34-862A-BB38845C1B70@nic.cz> X-Mailer: Mew version 6.5 on Emacs 24.3 / Mule 6.0 (HANACHIRUSATO) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: Text/Plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 Archived-At: http://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/netmod/zACyIWgHohbfC_gjJ8ChojLPANw Cc: netmod@ietf.org Subject: Re: [netmod] if-feature in state X-BeenThere: netmod@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: NETMOD WG list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 14 Nov 2014 04:23:12 -0000 TGFkaXNsYXYgTGhvdGthIDxsaG90a2FAbmljLmN6PiB3cm90ZToNCj4gSGksDQo+IA0KPiB0aGUg d2F5IGluIHdoaWNoIGlmLWZlYXR1cmUgd2FzIHVzZWQgaW4gc3RhdGUgZGF0YSBvZiB0aGUgcm91 dGluZyBtb2RlbCBhbHdheXMNCj4gaGFkIHRoaXMgZm9ybToNCj4gDQo+IGNvbnRhaW5lciBYIHsN Cj4gICBpZi1mZWF0dXJlIGZvbzsNCj4gICBsaXN0IFkgeyDigKYgfQ0KPiB9DQo+IA0KPiBBIHNl cnZlciB0aGF0IGRvZXNu4oCZdCBpbXBsZW1lbnQgZmVhdHVyZSBmb28gd2lsbCBzaW1wbHkgbm90 IHBvcHVsYXRlIHRoZSBsaXN0DQo+ICh0aGVyZSBhcmUgbm8gbWluLWVsZW1lbnRzKSwgYW5kIHRo ZW4gaXQgaXMgYWxsb3dlZCB0byByZW1vdmUgdGhlIGVtcHR5DQo+IGNvbnRhaW5lciBYLiBTbyBp dCBzZWVtcyB0byBtZSB0aGF0IHRoZSBpZi1mZWF0dXJlIGRvZXNu4oCZdCBoZWxwIGluIGFueSB3 YXkuDQoNCkkgdGhpbmsgaXQgZG9lczoNCg0KICBvICBpdCBtYWtlcyB0aGUgaW50ZW50aW9uIG9m IHRoZSBtb2RlbCBjbGVhciBmb3IgdGhlIHJlYWRlci4NCg0KICBvICBpdCBoZWxwcyBhbiBpbXBs ZW1lbnRvciB1bmRlcnN0YW5kIHdoYXQgaXMgc3VwcG9zZWQgdG8gYmUNCiAgICAgaW1wbGVtZW50 ZWQuIA0KDQogIG8gIGl0IGhlbHBzIHRoZSBjbGllbnQgdG8gdW5kZXJzdGFuZCB3aGF0IHRvIGV4 cGVjdCBmcm9tIGEgc2VydmVyLg0KDQoNCi9tYXJ0aW4NCg== From nobody Thu Nov 13 20:23:31 2014 Return-Path: X-Original-To: netmod@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: netmod@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4A2291A1BF0 for ; Thu, 13 Nov 2014 20:23:31 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -15.095 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-15.095 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_HI=-5, RP_MATCHES_RCVD=-0.594, SPF_PASS=-0.001, USER_IN_DEF_DKIM_WL=-7.5] autolearn=ham Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id Nis7h80MkYxU for ; Thu, 13 Nov 2014 20:23:30 -0800 (PST) Received: from alln-iport-7.cisco.com (alln-iport-7.cisco.com [173.37.142.94]) (using TLSv1 with cipher RC4-SHA (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id EEA7F1A003B for ; Thu, 13 Nov 2014 20:23:29 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/simple; d=cisco.com; i=@cisco.com; l=967; q=dns/txt; s=iport; t=1415939011; x=1417148611; h=message-id:date:from:mime-version:to:subject: content-transfer-encoding; bh=X7ld49rqZ5+jmtaHrFfGNDtFFeFM7nn3+V10Z2A+pLw=; b=Ht8jHuW/RNNyObHa40mWF4gyaOH2JJf4rhh6+Mov7zgotS1j9cQZyso7 G7FJeF78M21V0wkHg5uhnbDjdfDo5vBT4ktdT0/rvDUQ0FRO/DAEvCad3 Qd4C1v57bpi06Rd54Wmg2mdRcCFpYN1HMkozEwws1iFhrm3x21ipHbRA8 k=; X-IronPort-Anti-Spam-Filtered: true X-IronPort-Anti-Spam-Result: AgkFAP+CZVStJA2D/2dsb2JhbABbgw7XJRYBAQEBAX2EQUA9FhgDAgECAUsNCAEBiD2qfaYOAQEBBwIBH5V0AQSeTIE0hk+HO4c8hCAZgnsBAQE X-IronPort-AV: E=Sophos;i="5.07,383,1413244800"; d="scan'208";a="96522824" Received: from alln-core-1.cisco.com ([173.36.13.131]) by alln-iport-7.cisco.com with ESMTP; 14 Nov 2014 04:23:30 +0000 Received: from [10.21.126.242] (sjc-vpn6-1778.cisco.com [10.21.126.242]) by alln-core-1.cisco.com (8.14.5/8.14.5) with ESMTP id sAE4NS5t026611 for ; Fri, 14 Nov 2014 04:23:29 GMT Message-ID: <546583C0.9070401@cisco.com> Date: Thu, 13 Nov 2014 18:23:28 -1000 From: Benoit Claise User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 6.1; WOW64; rv:24.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/24.7.0 MIME-Version: 1.0 To: NETMOD Working Group Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Archived-At: http://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/netmod/1ZVDm94g0kgW58ktA3uesPkBJmo Subject: [netmod] rfc6087bis: Notes from the YANG editing and advice session on Sunday X-BeenThere: netmod@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: NETMOD WG list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 14 Nov 2014 04:23:31 -0000 Dear all, These are my notes. Hopefully, you will remember what it means * BGP (Lada) - work with the generic routing model - I2RS ephemeral in NETMOD - notion of policies, not only for BGP * PTP, 1588 - multiple datastore & interaction * Multicast (Peter) - high level structure recommendations interface centric versus multicast centric Peter worked on a PIM/multicast model: very similar * VLAN/UNI (Carl) - not interface centric - is UNI an interface? - if we start a YANG module development, should it be complete? no, but it should be extensible * MPLS (Andy) - augment interface table or use interface ref. * Balazs - topology: 3 modules - reference with string = not a nice thing to do update the guidelines? - guidelines: enum with values defined recommendation on when to use? Regards, Benoit From nobody Thu Nov 13 20:35:57 2014 Return-Path: X-Original-To: netmod@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: netmod@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id A45E11A1A52 for ; Thu, 13 Nov 2014 20:35:55 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -0.945 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-0.945 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, HELO_EQ_CZ=0.445, HOST_EQ_CZ=0.904, MIME_8BIT_HEADER=0.3, RP_MATCHES_RCVD=-0.594] autolearn=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id gqcuxcgHSh9T for ; Thu, 13 Nov 2014 20:35:55 -0800 (PST) Received: from mail.nic.cz (mail.nic.cz [IPv6:2001:1488:800:400::400]) (using TLSv1 with cipher ADH-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id D2A241A1A25 for ; Thu, 13 Nov 2014 20:35:54 -0800 (PST) Received: from t2001067c03700160b1d2391ac0b0017a.wireless.v6.meeting.ietf.org (t2001067c03700160b1d2391ac0b0017a.wireless.v6.meeting.ietf.org [IPv6:2001:67c:370:160:b1d2:391a:c0b0:17a]) by mail.nic.cz (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 64C7913F6B3; Fri, 14 Nov 2014 05:35:51 +0100 (CET) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=simple/simple; d=nic.cz; s=default; t=1415939753; bh=YRQ/3sRJmyXzvm2ks1tqaMbgy75Vsdt9+YxYWO6AZ64=; h=Content-Type:Mime-Version:Subject:From:In-Reply-To:Date:Cc: Content-Transfer-Encoding:Message-Id:References:To; b=S/WRiOAGqedMT3GL355u1xu3Yuwq+420lZR20dtOxXVaMeFMNGiU5bav/wtOvHNdb iMOEYAd6EYzmUev3Z7U+ihgGHEZwtfCab93ac+9Ke3Zk6aCIotCfcTyARAsnh/6AOw LThjGvFrDELPiWpjmi8WL+TslRkUA8d4M9AJ8yt8= Content-Type: text/plain; charset=windows-1252 Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 7.3 \(1878.6\)) From: Ladislav Lhotka In-Reply-To: <20141114.052302.205810906.mbj@tail-f.com> Date: Thu, 13 Nov 2014 18:35:48 -1000 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Message-Id: References: <94DC2071-0782-4C34-862A-BB38845C1B70@nic.cz> <20141114.052302.205810906.mbj@tail-f.com> To: =?windows-1252?Q?Martin_Bj=F6rklund?= X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.1878.6) X-Virus-Scanned: clamav-milter 0.98.1 at mail X-Virus-Status: Clean Archived-At: http://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/netmod/7JtAFPiUv2Mlzm-OvMdvIQpm9rI Cc: netmod@ietf.org Subject: Re: [netmod] if-feature in state X-BeenThere: netmod@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: NETMOD WG list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 14 Nov 2014 04:35:55 -0000 On 13 Nov 2014, at 18:23, Martin Bjorklund wrote: > Ladislav Lhotka wrote: >> Hi, >>=20 >> the way in which if-feature was used in state data of the routing = model always >> had this form: >>=20 >> container X { >> if-feature foo; >> list Y { =85 } >> } >>=20 >> A server that doesn=92t implement feature foo will simply not = populate the list >> (there are no min-elements), and then it is allowed to remove the = empty >> container X. So it seems to me that the if-feature doesn=92t help in = any way. >=20 > I think it does: >=20 > o it makes the intention of the model clear for the reader. >=20 > o it helps an implementor understand what is supposed to be > implemented.=20 These two points are already conveyed by having a feature in = configuration. >=20 > o it helps the client to understand what to expect from a server. Even for a server supporting feature foo the list can be empty, and it = can get non-empty only because of configuration, which is conditional = wrt feature foo. The problem really was that with the addition of recursive = next-hop-lists we would need to define yet another feature to make them = conditional. I am not sure that having many features makes the model = clearer. Lada >=20 >=20 > /martin -- Ladislav Lhotka, CZ.NIC Labs PGP Key ID: E74E8C0C From nobody Thu Nov 13 20:38:53 2014 Return-Path: X-Original-To: netmod@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: netmod@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5FB761A1A7A for ; Thu, 13 Nov 2014 20:38:51 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.144 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.144 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, HELO_EQ_DE=0.35, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, RP_MATCHES_RCVD=-0.594] autolearn=ham Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id d8MbfeAU8HgA for ; Thu, 13 Nov 2014 20:38:49 -0800 (PST) Received: from atlas3.jacobs-university.de (atlas3.jacobs-university.de [212.201.44.18]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher AECDH-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id B7FBE1A0065 for ; Thu, 13 Nov 2014 20:38:49 -0800 (PST) Received: from localhost (demetrius5.irc-it.jacobs-university.de [10.70.0.222]) by atlas3.jacobs-university.de (Postfix) with ESMTP id 860E51015; Fri, 14 Nov 2014 05:38:48 +0100 (CET) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at jacobs-university.de Received: from atlas3.jacobs-university.de ([10.70.0.220]) by localhost (demetrius5.jacobs-university.de [10.70.0.222]) (amavisd-new, port 10030) with ESMTP id fRjp1q-bDtO1; Fri, 14 Nov 2014 05:38:46 +0100 (CET) Received: from hermes.jacobs-university.de (hermes.jacobs-university.de [212.201.44.23]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (Client CN "hermes.jacobs-university.de", Issuer "Jacobs University CA - G01" (verified OK)) by atlas3.jacobs-university.de (Postfix) with ESMTPS; Fri, 14 Nov 2014 05:38:47 +0100 (CET) Received: from localhost (demetrius1.jacobs-university.de [212.201.44.46]) by hermes.jacobs-university.de (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4E36620017; Fri, 14 Nov 2014 05:38:47 +0100 (CET) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at jacobs-university.de Received: from hermes.jacobs-university.de ([212.201.44.23]) by localhost (demetrius1.jacobs-university.de [212.201.44.32]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id YJB3a-Vxw9Hs; Fri, 14 Nov 2014 05:38:46 +0100 (CET) Received: from elstar.local (elstar.jacobs.jacobs-university.de [10.50.231.133]) by hermes.jacobs-university.de (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5E9D220013; Fri, 14 Nov 2014 05:38:41 +0100 (CET) Received: by elstar.local (Postfix, from userid 501) id A343F2F82A2E; Fri, 14 Nov 2014 05:38:40 +0100 (CET) Date: Fri, 14 Nov 2014 05:38:40 +0100 From: Juergen Schoenwaelder To: Martin Bjorklund Message-ID: <20141114043840.GA64896@elstar.local> Mail-Followup-To: Martin Bjorklund , lhotka@nic.cz, netmod@ietf.org References: <10953EAE-A5EB-4AB4-84E9-2701856AAC1E@nic.cz> <20141113.200224.70446226.mbj@tail-f.com> <20141113192003.GA62229@elstar.local> <20141113.202444.67901626.mbj@tail-f.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <20141113.202444.67901626.mbj@tail-f.com> User-Agent: Mutt/1.4.2.3i Archived-At: http://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/netmod/ZZQcMezxJ06h8ZJww0Nb1ZAPKIg Cc: netmod@ietf.org Subject: Re: [netmod] separate state and config X-BeenThere: netmod@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list Reply-To: Juergen Schoenwaelder List-Id: NETMOD WG list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 14 Nov 2014 04:38:51 -0000 On Thu, Nov 13, 2014 at 08:24:44PM +0100, Martin Bjorklund wrote: > Juergen Schoenwaelder wrote: > > On Thu, Nov 13, 2014 at 08:02:24PM +0100, Martin Bjorklund wrote: > > > > > If you write something through RESTCONF, it immediately shows up in > > > get-config(running) in NETCONF. > > > > Out of curiosity: What happens if running is locked? I get a 409 > > Conflict HTTP error response? > > Yes, see section 6 in the draft, and the example in 6.1. > This text may be a bit confusing: The following example shows an error returned for an "lock-denied" error on a datastore resource. Perhaps it should be something like this: The following example shows an error returned if an attempt to modify a resource fails because the resource is locked (e.g., by a lock created by NETCONF). But then the POST is actually: POST /restconf/operations/example-ops:lock-datastore HTTP/1.1 Host: example.com This is not covering the case where a normal resource updates fails because of locks that exist but are not managed by RESTCONF. Could also be that I am missing something but searching for 'lock' in the I-D, the pieces of text I find do not really make things clear. /js -- Juergen Schoenwaelder Jacobs University Bremen gGmbH Phone: +49 421 200 3587 Campus Ring 1, 28759 Bremen, Germany Fax: +49 421 200 3103 From nobody Thu Nov 13 20:47:09 2014 Return-Path: X-Original-To: netmod@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: netmod@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 764551A1A68 for ; Thu, 13 Nov 2014 20:47:06 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.495 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.495 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, RP_MATCHES_RCVD=-0.594, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id GKUWqiq_OcaV for ; Thu, 13 Nov 2014 20:47:05 -0800 (PST) Received: from mail.tail-f.com (mail.tail-f.com [83.241.162.140]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 516671A0065 for ; Thu, 13 Nov 2014 20:47:04 -0800 (PST) Received: from localhost (unknown [193.13.112.215]) by mail.tail-f.com (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 19AC01280E77; Fri, 14 Nov 2014 05:47:03 +0100 (CET) Date: Fri, 14 Nov 2014 05:47:02 +0100 (CET) Message-Id: <20141114.054702.384279027.mbj@tail-f.com> To: j.schoenwaelder@jacobs-university.de From: Martin Bjorklund In-Reply-To: <20141114043840.GA64896@elstar.local> References: <20141113192003.GA62229@elstar.local> <20141113.202444.67901626.mbj@tail-f.com> <20141114043840.GA64896@elstar.local> X-Mailer: Mew version 6.5 on Emacs 24.3 / Mule 6.0 (HANACHIRUSATO) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: Text/Plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Archived-At: http://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/netmod/nLhjvFDaRfVwBtSb0nzmM2O02Ek Cc: netmod@ietf.org Subject: Re: [netmod] separate state and config X-BeenThere: netmod@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: NETMOD WG list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 14 Nov 2014 04:47:06 -0000 Hi, Juergen Schoenwaelder wrote: > On Thu, Nov 13, 2014 at 08:24:44PM +0100, Martin Bjorklund wrote: > > Juergen Schoenwaelder wrote: > > > On Thu, Nov 13, 2014 at 08:02:24PM +0100, Martin Bjorklund wrote: > > > > > > > If you write something through RESTCONF, it immediately shows up in > > > > get-config(running) in NETCONF. > > > > > > Out of curiosity: What happens if running is locked? I get a 409 > > > Conflict HTTP error response? > > > > Yes, see section 6 in the draft, and the example in 6.1. > > > > This text may be a bit confusing: > > The following example shows an error returned for an "lock-denied" > error on a datastore resource. > > Perhaps it should be something like this: > > The following example shows an error returned if an attempt to > modify a resource fails because the resource is locked (e.g., > by a lock created by NETCONF). Good suggestion. > But then the POST is actually: > > POST /restconf/operations/example-ops:lock-datastore HTTP/1.1 > Host: example.com > > This is not covering the case where a normal resource updates fails > because of locks that exist but are not managed by RESTCONF. Could > also be that I am missing something but searching for 'lock' in the > I-D, the pieces of text I find do not really make things clear. Ok, yes I think the text needs clarification. /martin From nobody Thu Nov 13 21:21:27 2014 Return-Path: X-Original-To: netmod@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: netmod@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4A4F61A6F52 for ; Thu, 13 Nov 2014 21:21:20 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.9 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.9 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, SPF_HELO_PASS=-0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, WEIRD_PORT=0.001] autolearn=ham Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id V-0CM4B8IgEP for ; Thu, 13 Nov 2014 21:21:13 -0800 (PST) Received: from na01-bn1-obe.outbound.protection.outlook.com (mail-bn1on0737.outbound.protection.outlook.com [IPv6:2a01:111:f400:fc10::737]) (using TLSv1 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 6F2911A6F53 for ; Thu, 13 Nov 2014 21:21:12 -0800 (PST) Received: from CO1PR05MB458.namprd05.prod.outlook.com (10.141.72.140) by CO1PR05MB459.namprd05.prod.outlook.com (10.141.72.146) with Microsoft SMTP Server (TLS) id 15.1.16.15; Fri, 14 Nov 2014 05:20:49 +0000 Received: from CO1PR05MB458.namprd05.prod.outlook.com ([169.254.10.239]) by CO1PR05MB458.namprd05.prod.outlook.com ([169.254.10.239]) with mapi id 15.01.0016.006; Fri, 14 Nov 2014 05:20:49 +0000 From: Kent Watsen To: NETMOD Working Group Thread-Topic: minutes for Nov 13 meeting Thread-Index: AQHP/8q/PfebpPFzjEuNIyPK0usnuw== Date: Fri, 14 Nov 2014 05:20:48 +0000 Message-ID: Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: user-agent: Microsoft-MacOutlook/14.4.4.140807 x-originating-ip: [66.129.239.10] x-microsoft-antispam: BCL:0;PCL:0;RULEID:;SRVR:CO1PR05MB459; x-exchange-antispam-report-test: UriScan:; x-exchange-antispam-report-cfa-test: BCL:0;PCL:0;RULEID:;SRVR:CO1PR05MB459; x-forefront-prvs: 03950F25EC x-forefront-antispam-report: SFV:NSPM; SFS:(10019020)(199003)(189002)(2656002)(36756003)(20776003)(83506001)(86362001)(92726001)(15975445006)(97736003)(99396003)(120916001)(19580395003)(558084003)(92566001)(101416001)(50986999)(19617315012)(4396001)(95666004)(99286002)(450100001)(110136001)(106116001)(106356001)(40100003)(122556002)(21056001)(31966008)(105586002)(66066001)(19625305001)(46102003)(107886001)(229853001)(77156002)(107046002)(16236675004)(15202345003)(64706001)(54356999)(77096003)(62966003)(87936001); DIR:OUT; SFP:1102; SCL:1; SRVR:CO1PR05MB459; H:CO1PR05MB458.namprd05.prod.outlook.com; FPR:; MLV:sfv; PTR:InfoNoRecords; A:1; MX:1; LANG:en; Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="_000_D08AB50D88DF9kwatsenjunipernet_" MIME-Version: 1.0 X-OriginatorOrg: juniper.net Archived-At: http://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/netmod/Vi646M686yw1tmKNtPJO3RlXCDM Subject: [netmod] minutes for Nov 13 meeting X-BeenThere: netmod@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: NETMOD WG list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 14 Nov 2014 05:21:21 -0000 --_000_D08AB50D88DF9kwatsenjunipernet_ Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable http://etherpad.tools.ietf.org:9000/p/notes-ietf-91-netmod Cheers, Kent --_000_D08AB50D88DF9kwatsenjunipernet_ Content-Type: text/html; charset="us-ascii" Content-ID: <7CFEABBC4128E247A133EB61CE8F008F@namprd05.prod.outlook.com> Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable


Cheers,
Kent

--_000_D08AB50D88DF9kwatsenjunipernet_-- From nobody Thu Nov 13 21:46:55 2014 Return-Path: X-Original-To: netmod@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: netmod@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id D0D771A6F98 for ; Thu, 13 Nov 2014 21:46:53 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.494 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.494 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RP_MATCHES_RCVD=-0.594, SPF_HELO_PASS=-0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, WEIRD_PORT=0.001] autolearn=ham Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id sBL8GHHxPmv6 for ; Thu, 13 Nov 2014 21:46:52 -0800 (PST) Received: from lucidvision.com (lucidvision.com [72.71.250.34]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2081C1A1B6E for ; Thu, 13 Nov 2014 21:46:51 -0800 (PST) Received: from [10.192.174.199] (unknown [166.170.48.165]) by lucidvision.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id EF6E22932834; Fri, 14 Nov 2014 00:46:50 -0500 (EST) Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=Apple-Mail-4232B04C-99D9-42E0-BFC8-BFD0D23595F0 Mime-Version: 1.0 (1.0) From: Thomas Nadeau X-Mailer: iPhone Mail (12B411) In-Reply-To: Date: Thu, 13 Nov 2014 19:46:48 -1000 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Message-Id: References: To: Kent Watsen Archived-At: http://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/netmod/UT_YaBVMG06NMhnwa5vJzOXPNEg Cc: NETMOD Working Group Subject: Re: [netmod] minutes for Nov 13 meeting X-BeenThere: netmod@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: NETMOD WG list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 14 Nov 2014 05:46:54 -0000 --Apple-Mail-4232B04C-99D9-42E0-BFC8-BFD0D23595F0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Thanks very much for taking notes! > On Nov 13, 2014, at 7:20 PM, Kent Watsen wrote: > > > http://etherpad.tools.ietf.org:9000/p/notes-ietf-91-netmod > > Cheers, > Kent > > _______________________________________________ > netmod mailing list > netmod@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/netmod --Apple-Mail-4232B04C-99D9-42E0-BFC8-BFD0D23595F0 Content-Type: text/html; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
Thanks very much for taking notes!



On Nov 13, 2014, at 7:20 PM, Kent Watsen <kwatsen@juniper.net> wrote:

_______________________________________________
netmod mailing list
netmod@ietf.org
https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/netmod
--Apple-Mail-4232B04C-99D9-42E0-BFC8-BFD0D23595F0-- From nobody Fri Nov 14 01:52:31 2014 Return-Path: X-Original-To: netmod@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: netmod@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 410DB1A8828 for ; Fri, 14 Nov 2014 01:52:29 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.495 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.495 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, RP_MATCHES_RCVD=-0.594, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id l_G3H2DHzMVP for ; Fri, 14 Nov 2014 01:52:28 -0800 (PST) Received: from mail.tail-f.com (mail.tail-f.com [83.241.162.140]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id B6F3A1A00B0 for ; Fri, 14 Nov 2014 01:52:24 -0800 (PST) Received: from localhost (unknown [193.13.112.215]) by mail.tail-f.com (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id C086B12809D5; Fri, 14 Nov 2014 10:52:23 +0100 (CET) Date: Fri, 14 Nov 2014 10:52:23 +0100 (CET) Message-Id: <20141114.105223.344567852.mbj@tail-f.com> To: randy_presuhn@mindspring.com From: Martin Bjorklund In-Reply-To: <31164871.1415934772256.JavaMail.root@mswamui-cedar.atl.sa.earthlink.net> References: <31164871.1415934772256.JavaMail.root@mswamui-cedar.atl.sa.earthlink.net> X-Mailer: Mew version 6.5 on Emacs 24.3 / Mule 6.0 (HANACHIRUSATO) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: Text/Plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Archived-At: http://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/netmod/IIe4ou5Chd6n2SehjC9GXGpkjEk Cc: netconf@itef.org, netmod@ietf.org Subject: Re: [netmod] how YANG and NETCONF support the long running command (e.g ping) X-BeenThere: netmod@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: NETMOD WG list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 14 Nov 2014 09:52:29 -0000 Randy Presuhn wrote: > Hi - > > >From: Johnson Zhu > >Sent: Nov 13, 2014 4:30 PM > >To: "netmod@ietf.org" , "netconf@itef.org" > >Subject: [netmod] how YANG and NETCONF support the long running command (e.g > >ping) > ... > >So any recommendation how to proceed/define the long running command? > ... > > I'd suggest modeling it in a manner analogous to > RFC 4560's approach in the SNMP world. That would > let you accomplish your objective without needing > to change the protocol or the modeling language. Another way of doing this (I don't remember if I suggested this on the list or not) is to use multiple rpcs: first the client starts the operation, then it asks for the first result, and the next, and so on. Eventually he got all results, or he can cancel the operation. rpc start-ping-operation { input { leaf address { ... } ... } output { leaf ping-operation-handle { type uint32; } } } rpc get-next-ping-result { // or get-results might be better input { leaf ping-operation-handle { type uint32; } } output { choice result { case data { leaf time { ... } ... } } leaf no-more-data { type empty; } } } } rpc cancel-ping-operation { input { leaf ping-operation-handle { type uint32; } } } /martin From nobody Fri Nov 14 02:03:05 2014 Return-Path: X-Original-To: netmod@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: netmod@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1B4EF1A8838 for ; Fri, 14 Nov 2014 02:03:03 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.495 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.495 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, RP_MATCHES_RCVD=-0.594, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id zB-Bil3mlTpF for ; Fri, 14 Nov 2014 02:03:02 -0800 (PST) Received: from mail.tail-f.com (mail.tail-f.com [83.241.162.140]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id DF84A1A8849 for ; Fri, 14 Nov 2014 02:03:01 -0800 (PST) Received: from localhost (unknown [193.13.112.215]) by mail.tail-f.com (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id C33D71280B72 for ; Fri, 14 Nov 2014 11:03:00 +0100 (CET) Date: Fri, 14 Nov 2014 11:03:00 +0100 (CET) Message-Id: <20141114.110300.117067066.mbj@tail-f.com> To: netmod@ietf.org From: Martin Bjorklund X-Mailer: Mew version 6.5 on Emacs 24.3 / Mule 6.0 (HANACHIRUSATO) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: Text/Plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Archived-At: http://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/netmod/W_lCvAPRM7fuWWNowmPFwx1TJBk Subject: [netmod] extension usage in 6087bis X-BeenThere: netmod@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: NETMOD WG list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 14 Nov 2014 10:03:03 -0000 Hi, I think Phil's point yesterday re. extension should be added to 6087bis. This is a rule that we have talked about before, but it should be explicitly documented. It must be possible for a client to ignore the extension and still work. /martin From nobody Fri Nov 14 02:09:02 2014 Return-Path: X-Original-To: netmod@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: netmod@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id AAEF51A8886; Fri, 14 Nov 2014 02:08:59 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.9 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.9 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9] autolearn=ham Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 79vVHN9uSO0M; Fri, 14 Nov 2014 02:08:58 -0800 (PST) Received: from ietfa.amsl.com (localhost [IPv6:::1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 255701A884D; Fri, 14 Nov 2014 02:08:58 -0800 (PST) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: internet-drafts@ietf.org To: i-d-announce@ietf.org X-Test-IDTracker: no X-IETF-IDTracker: 5.7.4 Auto-Submitted: auto-generated Precedence: bulk Message-ID: <20141114100858.16693.24406.idtracker@ietfa.amsl.com> Date: Fri, 14 Nov 2014 02:08:58 -0800 Archived-At: http://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/netmod/_Z6JkQzFWzMbY4fdzLxpv3e8bnU Cc: netmod@ietf.org Subject: [netmod] I-D Action: draft-ietf-netmod-rfc6020bis-02.txt X-BeenThere: netmod@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 List-Id: NETMOD WG list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 14 Nov 2014 10:08:59 -0000 A New Internet-Draft is available from the on-line Internet-Drafts directories. This draft is a work item of the NETCONF Data Modeling Language Working Group of the IETF. Title : YANG - A Data Modeling Language for the Network Configuration Protocol (NETCONF) Author : Martin Bjorklund Filename : draft-ietf-netmod-rfc6020bis-02.txt Pages : 182 Date : 2014-11-14 Abstract: YANG is a data modeling language used to model configuration and state data manipulated by the Network Configuration Protocol (NETCONF), NETCONF remote procedure calls, and NETCONF notifications. This document obsoletes RFC 6020. The IETF datatracker status page for this draft is: https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-netmod-rfc6020bis/ There's also a htmlized version available at: http://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-netmod-rfc6020bis-02 A diff from the previous version is available at: http://www.ietf.org/rfcdiff?url2=draft-ietf-netmod-rfc6020bis-02 Please note that it may take a couple of minutes from the time of submission until the htmlized version and diff are available at tools.ietf.org. Internet-Drafts are also available by anonymous FTP at: ftp://ftp.ietf.org/internet-drafts/ From nobody Fri Nov 14 02:13:15 2014 Return-Path: X-Original-To: netmod@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: netmod@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 30D911A88A0 for ; Fri, 14 Nov 2014 02:13:14 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.495 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.495 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, RP_MATCHES_RCVD=-0.594, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id IUO0QUfoDiE7 for ; Fri, 14 Nov 2014 02:13:12 -0800 (PST) Received: from mail.tail-f.com (mail.tail-f.com [83.241.162.140]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 34C4C1A8891 for ; Fri, 14 Nov 2014 02:13:12 -0800 (PST) Received: from localhost (unknown [193.13.112.215]) by mail.tail-f.com (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 77B951280AB0 for ; Fri, 14 Nov 2014 11:13:11 +0100 (CET) Date: Fri, 14 Nov 2014 11:13:10 +0100 (CET) Message-Id: <20141114.111310.304814951.mbj@tail-f.com> To: netmod@ietf.org From: Martin Bjorklund In-Reply-To: <20141114100858.16693.24406.idtracker@ietfa.amsl.com> References: <20141114100858.16693.24406.idtracker@ietfa.amsl.com> X-Mailer: Mew version 6.5 on Emacs 24.3 / Mule 6.0 (HANACHIRUSATO) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: Text/Plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Archived-At: http://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/netmod/MlzdJPGvu8Ij0B9mUqM88u0pc5M Subject: Re: [netmod] I-D Action: draft-ietf-netmod-rfc6020bis-02.txt X-BeenThere: netmod@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: NETMOD WG list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 14 Nov 2014 10:13:14 -0000 Hi, Version -02 addresses the following issues: - Included solution Y02-01. - Included solution Y04-02. - Included solution Y11-01. - Included solution Y41-01. - Included solution Y56-01. The issues list (at https://svn.tools.ietf.org/svn/wg/netmod/yang-1.1/issues.html) has been updated accordingly. /martin internet-drafts@ietf.org wrote: > > A New Internet-Draft is available from the on-line Internet-Drafts directories. > This draft is a work item of the NETCONF Data Modeling Language Working Group > of the IETF. > > Title : YANG - A Data Modeling Language for the Network Configuration > Protocol (NETCONF) > Author : Martin Bjorklund > Filename : draft-ietf-netmod-rfc6020bis-02.txt > Pages : 182 > Date : 2014-11-14 > > Abstract: > YANG is a data modeling language used to model configuration and > state data manipulated by the Network Configuration Protocol > (NETCONF), NETCONF remote procedure calls, and NETCONF notifications. > This document obsoletes RFC 6020. > > > The IETF datatracker status page for this draft is: > https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-netmod-rfc6020bis/ > > There's also a htmlized version available at: > http://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-netmod-rfc6020bis-02 > > A diff from the previous version is available at: > http://www.ietf.org/rfcdiff?url2=draft-ietf-netmod-rfc6020bis-02 > > > Please note that it may take a couple of minutes from the time of submission > until the htmlized version and diff are available at tools.ietf.org. > > Internet-Drafts are also available by anonymous FTP at: > ftp://ftp.ietf.org/internet-drafts/ > > _______________________________________________ > netmod mailing list > netmod@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/netmod > From nobody Fri Nov 14 02:20:42 2014 Return-Path: X-Original-To: netmod@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: netmod@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 99EE61A8896 for ; Fri, 14 Nov 2014 02:20:40 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: 2.098 X-Spam-Level: ** X-Spam-Status: No, score=2.098 tagged_above=-999 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bnkNCj4gRmF4OiAgICs0OSA0MjEgMjAwIDMxMDMgICAgICAgICA8aHR0cDovL3d3dy5qYWNvYnMt dW5pdmVyc2l0eS5kZS8+DQo+IA0KPiBfX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19f X19fX19fX19fX19fXw0KPiBuZXRtb2QgbWFpbGluZyBsaXN0DQo+IG5ldG1vZEBpZXRmLm9yZw0K PiBodHRwczovL3d3dy5pZXRmLm9yZy9tYWlsbWFuL2xpc3RpbmZvL25ldG1vZA0KPiANCg0KDQoN Ci0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLQ0KDQpTdWJqZWN0OiBEaWdlc3QgRm9vdGVy DQoNCl9fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fDQpuZXRt b2QgbWFpbGluZyBsaXN0DQpuZXRtb2RAaWV0Zi5vcmcNCmh0dHBzOi8vd3d3LmlldGYub3JnL21h aWxtYW4vbGlzdGluZm8vbmV0bW9kDQoNCg0KLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0t DQoNCkVuZCBvZiBuZXRtb2QgRGlnZXN0LCBWb2wgODAsIElzc3VlIDQzDQoqKioqKioqKioqKioq KioqKioqKioqKioqKioqKioqKioqKioqKg0KX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19f X19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX18NCm5ldG1vZCBtYWlsaW5nIGxpc3QNCm5ldG1vZEBpZXRmLm9yZw0K aHR0cHM6Ly93d3cuaWV0Zi5vcmcvbWFpbG1hbi9saXN0aW5mby9uZXRtb2QNCg== From nobody Fri Nov 14 02:36:27 2014 Return-Path: X-Original-To: netmod@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: netmod@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 218CC1A8891 for ; Fri, 14 Nov 2014 02:36:25 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.144 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.144 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, HELO_EQ_DE=0.35, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, RP_MATCHES_RCVD=-0.594] autolearn=ham Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id zyi9ntevJqks for ; Fri, 14 Nov 2014 02:36:22 -0800 (PST) Received: from atlas3.jacobs-university.de (atlas3.jacobs-university.de [212.201.44.18]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher AECDH-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 6FF1A1A6FDD for ; Fri, 14 Nov 2014 02:36:22 -0800 (PST) Received: from localhost (demetrius5.irc-it.jacobs-university.de [10.70.0.222]) by 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([212.201.44.23]) by localhost (demetrius1.jacobs-university.de [212.201.44.32]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id xX5HL2mzM5pM; Fri, 14 Nov 2014 11:36:19 +0100 (CET) Received: from elstar.local (elstar.jacobs.jacobs-university.de [10.50.231.133]) by hermes.jacobs-university.de (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7336D20013; Fri, 14 Nov 2014 11:36:17 +0100 (CET) Received: by elstar.local (Postfix, from userid 501) id 7C24E2F83191; Fri, 14 Nov 2014 11:36:16 +0100 (CET) Date: Fri, 14 Nov 2014 11:36:15 +0100 From: Juergen Schoenwaelder To: Martin Bjorklund Message-ID: <20141114103615.GA66784@elstar.local> Mail-Followup-To: Martin Bjorklund , randy_presuhn@mindspring.com, netconf@itef.org, netmod@ietf.org References: <31164871.1415934772256.JavaMail.root@mswamui-cedar.atl.sa.earthlink.net> <20141114.105223.344567852.mbj@tail-f.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <20141114.105223.344567852.mbj@tail-f.com> User-Agent: Mutt/1.4.2.3i Archived-At: http://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/netmod/ulsR99EAzrDo1PGxlcTzuhm3dy8 Cc: randy_presuhn@mindspring.com, netconf@itef.org, netmod@ietf.org Subject: Re: [netmod] how YANG and NETCONF support the long running command (e.g ping) X-BeenThere: netmod@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list Reply-To: Juergen Schoenwaelder List-Id: NETMOD WG list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 14 Nov 2014 10:36:25 -0000 On Fri, Nov 14, 2014 at 10:52:23AM +0100, Martin Bjorklund wrote: > > Another way of doing this (I don't remember if I suggested this on the > list or not) is to use multiple rpcs: first the client starts the > operation, then it asks for the first result, and the next, and so > on. Eventually he got all results, or he can cancel the operation. > > rpc start-ping-operation { > input { > leaf address { ... } > ... > } > output { > leaf ping-operation-handle { > type uint32; > } > } > } > > rpc get-next-ping-result { // or get-results might be better > input { > leaf ping-operation-handle { > type uint32; > } > } > output { > choice result { > case data { > leaf time { ... } > ... > } > } > leaf no-more-data { > type empty; > } > } > } > } > > rpc cancel-ping-operation { > input { > leaf ping-operation-handle { > type uint32; > } > } > } > Yes, you can do this. That said, this approach requires to define 2-3 RPCs each time and it causes the client to block for the next result (or you make the get-next-ping-result) return an indication that nothing is there yet, which then of course leads to even more polls. For me, this looks like a work-around given the mechanisms we have in place today but not like a proper generic solution. /js -- Juergen Schoenwaelder Jacobs University Bremen gGmbH Phone: +49 421 200 3587 Campus Ring 1, 28759 Bremen, Germany Fax: +49 421 200 3103 From nobody Fri Nov 14 15:11:59 2014 Return-Path: X-Original-To: netmod@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: netmod@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 32EA11A87E0 for ; Fri, 14 Nov 2014 15:11:52 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.9 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.9 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, SPF_HELO_PASS=-0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, WEIRD_PORT=0.001] autolearn=ham Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id FGTARDiToLcJ for ; Fri, 14 Nov 2014 15:11:38 -0800 (PST) Received: from na01-bn1-obe.outbound.protection.outlook.com (mail-bn1on0789.outbound.protection.outlook.com [IPv6:2a01:111:f400:fc10::789]) (using TLSv1 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 98A0D1AD36B for ; Fri, 14 Nov 2014 15:11:36 -0800 (PST) Received: from CO1PR05MB458.namprd05.prod.outlook.com (10.141.72.140) by CO1PR05MB460.namprd05.prod.outlook.com (10.141.72.152) with Microsoft SMTP Server (TLS) id 15.1.16.15; Fri, 14 Nov 2014 23:11:08 +0000 Received: from CO1PR05MB458.namprd05.prod.outlook.com ([169.254.10.239]) by CO1PR05MB458.namprd05.prod.outlook.com ([169.254.10.239]) with mapi id 15.01.0016.006; Fri, 14 Nov 2014 23:11:07 +0000 From: Kent Watsen To: NETMOD Working Group Thread-Topic: [netmod] minutes for Nov 13 meeting Thread-Index: AQHQAGBFPfebpPFzjEuNIyPK0usnuw== Date: Fri, 14 Nov 2014 23:11:07 +0000 Message-ID: Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: user-agent: Microsoft-MacOutlook/14.4.4.140807 x-originating-ip: [66.129.239.10] x-microsoft-antispam: BCL:0;PCL:0;RULEID:;SRVR:CO1PR05MB460; x-exchange-antispam-report-test: UriScan:; x-exchange-antispam-report-cfa-test: BCL:0;PCL:0;RULEID:;SRVR:CO1PR05MB460; x-forefront-prvs: 03950F25EC x-forefront-antispam-report: SFV:NSPM; SFS:(10019020)(199003)(189002)(377454003)(19625305001)(15975445006)(122556002)(19580405001)(19580395003)(95666004)(99286002)(97736003)(92566001)(99396003)(110136001)(101416001)(87936001)(120916001)(83506001)(92726001)(2656002)(19617315012)(106116001)(50986999)(106356001)(54356999)(16236675004)(15202345003)(4396001)(31966008)(105586002)(107046002)(77156002)(36756003)(86362001)(107886001)(46102003)(62966003)(450100001)(64706001)(40100003)(21056001)(77096003)(20776003)(66066001); DIR:OUT; SFP:1102; SCL:1; SRVR:CO1PR05MB460; H:CO1PR05MB458.namprd05.prod.outlook.com; FPR:; MLV:sfv; PTR:InfoNoRecords; A:1; MX:1; LANG:en; Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="_000_D08BAE7D88FA2kwatsenjunipernet_" MIME-Version: 1.0 X-OriginatorOrg: juniper.net Archived-At: http://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/netmod/whqQ_w18pv1mn4BnMg1AjQWGpQM Subject: Re: [netmod] minutes for Nov 13 meeting X-BeenThere: netmod@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: NETMOD WG list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 14 Nov 2014 23:11:52 -0000 --_000_D08BAE7D88FA2kwatsenjunipernet_ Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Etherpad minutes updated with notes from today's meeting Cheers, Kent From: Kent Watsen > Date: Thursday, November 13, 2014 at 7:20 PM To: NETMOD Working Group > Subject: [netmod] minutes for Nov 13 meeting http://etherpad.tools.ietf.org:9000/p/notes-ietf-91-netmod Cheers, Kent --_000_D08BAE7D88FA2kwatsenjunipernet_ Content-Type: text/html; charset="us-ascii" Content-ID: <720964AAD2A95842B3476D46D55C4DC7@namprd05.prod.outlook.com> Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

Etherpad minutes updated with notes from today's meeting

Cheers,
Kent

From: Kent Watsen <kwatsen@juniper.net>
Date: Thursday, November 13, 2014 a= t 7:20 PM
To: NETMOD Working Group <netmod@ietf.org>
Subject: [netmod] minutes for Nov 1= 3 meeting

 --_000_D08BAE7D88FA2kwatsenjunipernet_-- From nobody Fri Nov 14 19:17:52 2014 Return-Path: X-Original-To: netmod@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: netmod@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id F35F81A1A2C for ; Fri, 14 Nov 2014 19:17:48 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.302 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.302 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, J_CHICKENPOX_65=0.6, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, SPF_HELO_PASS=-0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id kzWK-sRxu0vn for ; Fri, 14 Nov 2014 19:17:47 -0800 (PST) Received: from na01-by2-obe.outbound.protection.outlook.com (mail-by2on0110.outbound.protection.outlook.com [207.46.100.110]) (using TLSv1 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id DDFEE1A0277 for ; Fri, 14 Nov 2014 19:17:47 -0800 (PST) Received: from CO1PR05MB458.namprd05.prod.outlook.com (10.141.72.140) by CO1PR05MB458.namprd05.prod.outlook.com (10.141.72.140) with Microsoft SMTP Server (TLS) id 15.1.16.15; Sat, 15 Nov 2014 03:17:47 +0000 Received: from CO1PR05MB458.namprd05.prod.outlook.com ([169.254.10.239]) by CO1PR05MB458.namprd05.prod.outlook.com ([169.254.10.239]) with mapi id 15.01.0016.006; Sat, 15 Nov 2014 03:17:47 +0000 From: Kent Watsen To: Juergen Schoenwaelder , "Martin Bjorklund" Thread-Topic: [netmod] how YANG and NETCONF support the long running command (e.g ping) Thread-Index: AQHP/7jgzXhqicIORiS0QZAmPrmG45xf4e6AgAAMQoCAAG+wAA== Date: Sat, 15 Nov 2014 03:17:47 +0000 Message-ID: References: <31164871.1415934772256.JavaMail.root@mswamui-cedar.atl.sa.earthlink.net> <20141114.105223.344567852.mbj@tail-f.com> <20141114103615.GA66784@elstar.local> In-Reply-To: <20141114103615.GA66784@elstar.local> Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: user-agent: Microsoft-MacOutlook/14.4.4.140807 x-originating-ip: [66.129.239.10] x-microsoft-antispam: BCL:0;PCL:0;RULEID:;SRVR:CO1PR05MB458; x-exchange-antispam-report-test: UriScan:; x-exchange-antispam-report-cfa-test: BCL:0;PCL:0;RULEID:;SRVR:CO1PR05MB458; x-forefront-prvs: 03965EFC76 x-forefront-antispam-report: SFV:NSPM; SFS:(10019020)(6009001)(164054003)(199003)(189002)(99396003)(66066001)(97736003)(64706001)(120916001)(101416001)(86362001)(46102003)(76176999)(50986999)(54356999)(20776003)(92726001)(122556002)(83506001)(107046002)(4396001)(95666004)(87936001)(2656002)(106356001)(99286002)(106116001)(36756003)(105586002)(62966003)(77096003)(77156002)(21056001)(40100003)(7059030); DIR:OUT; SFP:1102; SCL:1; SRVR:CO1PR05MB458; H:CO1PR05MB458.namprd05.prod.outlook.com; FPR:; MLV:sfv; PTR:InfoNoRecords; A:1; MX:1; LANG:en; Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-ID: <65B7CFC582219F47BC1C3FE37F4D7025@namprd05.prod.outlook.com> Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable MIME-Version: 1.0 X-OriginatorOrg: juniper.net Archived-At: http://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/netmod/_yApnrLJ_-8JFW7DT-0GDl6ahM0 Cc: "randy_presuhn@mindspring.com" , "netconf@itef.org" , "netmod@ietf.org" Subject: Re: [netmod] how YANG and NETCONF support the long running command (e.g ping) X-BeenThere: netmod@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: NETMOD WG list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sat, 15 Nov 2014 03:17:49 -0000 Regarding the "persistent", "fragmentation" and "datastore-push" drafts, and related ideas floating around, I believe that there are the following use-cases: 1) request for an unbounded number of periodic responses sent relatively frequently (ping) 2) request for a large YANG config=3Dfalse list (retrieving interface statistics) 3) request for a large blob (file transfer) 4) request for an action that takes a long time to perform (network link performance validation) 5) subscription request on subtree to receive on-change data notifications (config false also) The solution to these may or may not overlap. For instance, consider the following: Options for #1: A) use a never-ending rpc-reply; server pushes data as it becomes available B) initial response returns handle with which client polls for incremental results and cancels the request Options for #2: A) pagination, multiple rpcs to return subsets of list B) break response into blocks returned independently Options for #3: A) use a file-transfer protocol like SCP, SFTP, or FTPS B) use a never-ending rpc-reply; server stream data as it becomes available C) break response into blocks returned independently Options for #4: A) initial response returns handle which the client uses to monitor progress, receive the final result, and cancel the request Options for #5: A) use netconf notifications as is B) use a modified version of netconf notifications for higher throughput C) direct responses into a queue that the client can poll Thoughts? Any additions? Thanks, Kent From nobody Fri Nov 14 19:27:35 2014 Return-Path: X-Original-To: netmod@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: netmod@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id C9C321A0277 for ; Fri, 14 Nov 2014 19:27:33 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id hBrXJefBc0t2 for ; Fri, 14 Nov 2014 19:27:32 -0800 (PST) Received: from mail-qa0-x230.google.com (mail-qa0-x230.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:400d:c00::230]) (using TLSv1 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-RC4-SHA (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 5E6181A00F6 for ; Fri, 14 Nov 2014 19:27:32 -0800 (PST) Received: by mail-qa0-f48.google.com with SMTP id x12so12380945qac.7 for ; Fri, 14 Nov 2014 19:27:31 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20120113; h=content-type:mime-version:subject:from:in-reply-to:date:cc :content-transfer-encoding:message-id:references:to; bh=yBoUYlmK8/P9FbfYdoVjKttxMBvCeU5wC8uwmC7AqCM=; b=ZgnpVweKmMnk/l8l+pXfcHNURIX5+pEnt/hYCfHWmOAOQ3GkMFM77s/CYxGOHF9FON guuH+bianrGSvLFK95TsElBu1wesMLb92u1FxErmkkAlT9IMDEIbMkQIC/C9z41MKaPy qQmWdzOYdYddxHBTenRu+Ggoa1tz+llxlW1zFrhKEj5okRF+Gj24u8jg2n65DFdxQbD3 ZVGMbwI3cCdC5wGxe6eVfQEuLVS507KWcBKG94Zk2DexeJMw086nTfTpNeA0sZmWES7Q N8JI9DQYLy4ga/2N7b6eoePbRbYjQ6RzfRHjVwY5r5uFZpS/rUju0ZHaYIH3vqpNkNln KsSg== X-Received: by 10.224.79.136 with SMTP id p8mr13603442qak.70.1416022051603; Fri, 14 Nov 2014 19:27:31 -0800 (PST) Received: from [192.168.1.133] (108-247-127-76.lightspeed.sntcca.sbcglobal.net. [108.247.127.76]) by mx.google.com with ESMTPSA id e8sm28743956qai.33.2014.11.14.19.27.30 for (version=TLSv1 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-RC4-SHA bits=128/128); Fri, 14 Nov 2014 19:27:31 -0800 (PST) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 7.3 \(1878.6\)) From: Mahesh Jethanandani In-Reply-To: <20141114.105223.344567852.mbj@tail-f.com> Date: Fri, 14 Nov 2014 19:27:26 -0800 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Message-Id: <0AB78156-B34A-461E-A492-32AB2A2EF8CE@gmail.com> References: <31164871.1415934772256.JavaMail.root@mswamui-cedar.atl.sa.earthlink.net> <20141114.105223.344567852.mbj@tail-f.com> To: Martin Bjorklund X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.1878.6) Archived-At: http://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/netmod/kAYNrb-ZmjrIfYKm-xSugdEXClk Cc: randy_presuhn@mindspring.com, netconf@itef.org, netmod@ietf.org Subject: Re: [netmod] how YANG and NETCONF support the long running command (e.g ping) X-BeenThere: netmod@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: NETMOD WG list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sat, 15 Nov 2014 03:27:34 -0000 [With chair hat off] On Nov 14, 2014, at 1:52 AM, Martin Bjorklund wrote: >=20 > Another way of doing this (I don't remember if I suggested this on the > list or not) is to use multiple rpcs: first the client starts the > operation, then it asks for the first result, and the next, and so > on. Eventually he got all results, or he can cancel the operation. >=20 > rpc start-ping-operation { > input { > leaf address { ... } > ... > } > output { > leaf ping-operation-handle { > type uint32; > } > } > } >=20 > rpc get-next-ping-result { // or get-results might be better > input { > leaf ping-operation-handle { > type uint32; > } > } > output { > choice result { > case data { > leaf time { ... } > ... > } > } > leaf no-more-data { > type empty; > } > } > } > } >=20 > rpc cancel-ping-operation { > input { > leaf ping-operation-handle { > type uint32; > } > } > } >=20 >=20 >=20 > /martin This requires that client knows when or how often to poll for an = expected reply, otherwise as Juergen suggests it leads to unnecessary = polls. Mahesh Jethanandani mjethanandani@gmail.com From nobody Fri Nov 14 19:38:30 2014 Return-Path: X-Original-To: netmod@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: netmod@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9EEF61A1A46 for ; Fri, 14 Nov 2014 19:38:28 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -0.6 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-0.6 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_05=-0.5, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001] autolearn=ham Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id dzgSNr6AGXka for ; Fri, 14 Nov 2014 19:38:27 -0800 (PST) Received: from elasmtp-spurfowl.atl.sa.earthlink.net (elasmtp-spurfowl.atl.sa.earthlink.net [209.86.89.66]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 52B731A1A32 for ; Fri, 14 Nov 2014 19:38:27 -0800 (PST) DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=dk20050327; d=mindspring.com; b=WeAjmjrJpcrqQL0abbV6EnY7Nj4FfqI1sFHoBy8kw9gU5tr5GnyEckACYuSnKMkV; h=Message-ID:Date:From:Reply-To:To:Subject:Mime-Version:Content-Type:Content-Transfer-Encoding:X-Mailer:X-ELNK-Trace:X-Originating-IP; Received: from [209.86.224.50] (helo=mswamui-swiss.atl.sa.earthlink.net) by elasmtp-spurfowl.atl.sa.earthlink.net with esmtpa (Exim 4.67) (envelope-from ) id 1XpUBu-0006HB-JL; Fri, 14 Nov 2014 22:38:26 -0500 Received: from 76.254.54.138 by webmail.earthlink.net with HTTP; Fri, 14 Nov 2014 22:38:26 -0500 Message-ID: <11806166.1416022706534.JavaMail.root@mswamui-swiss.atl.sa.earthlink.net> Date: Fri, 14 Nov 2014 19:38:26 -0800 (GMT-08:00) From: Randy Presuhn To: "netconf@itef.org" , "netmod@ietf.org" Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: EarthLink Zoo Mail 1.0 X-ELNK-Trace: 4488c18417c9426da92b9037bc8bcf44d4c20f6b8d69d88825aa8a2065c9591f96f786404af02593768b4327abea893a350badd9bab72f9c350badd9bab72f9c X-Originating-IP: 209.86.224.50 Archived-At: http://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/netmod/XEukaaafE8wA0qwM10GOHATbU6w Subject: Re: [netmod] how YANG and NETCONF support the long running command (e.g ping) X-BeenThere: netmod@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list Reply-To: Randy Presuhn List-Id: NETMOD WG list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sat, 15 Nov 2014 03:38:28 -0000 Hi - >From: Kent Watsen >Sent: Nov 14, 2014 7:17 PM ... >Regarding the "persistent", "fragmentation" and "datastore-push" drafts, >and related ideas floating around, I believe that there are the following >use-cases: > > >1) request for an unbounded number of periodic responses sent relatively >frequently (ping) ... >4) request for an action that takes a long time to perform (network link >performance validation) I think the analysis neglects an important dimension of (1) and (4). Particularly for management applications, there may be multiple consumers of the (intermediate and final) results of these operations. An RPC-centric approach scales poorly for these. If I have three management systems in different control centers interested in the latency of a particular link, they shouldn't need to be running three separate ongoing tests concurrently. Randy Randy From nobody Fri Nov 14 19:46:36 2014 Return-Path: X-Original-To: netmod@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: netmod@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id BB7C41A1AA6 for ; Fri, 14 Nov 2014 19:46:34 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.4 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.4 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, J_CHICKENPOX_65=0.6, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id bvCcjVVz43UQ for ; Fri, 14 Nov 2014 19:46:33 -0800 (PST) Received: from mail-qa0-x22a.google.com (mail-qa0-x22a.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:400d:c00::22a]) (using TLSv1 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-RC4-SHA (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id CB3AB1A1A46 for ; Fri, 14 Nov 2014 19:46:32 -0800 (PST) Received: by mail-qa0-f42.google.com with SMTP id j7so1591418qaq.1 for ; Fri, 14 Nov 2014 19:46:32 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20120113; h=content-type:mime-version:subject:from:in-reply-to:date:cc :content-transfer-encoding:message-id:references:to; bh=2sp2xo5QkbmehSlnNjSoXgfXoQ25cvURZ2IIK3q+zmI=; b=XOvU+Bff38hmeHNcZUMXbaB4Y8FDadT3/m++t4fiyyK/CIsw3CvFMwL31C9Zp0Or0H UTaqRAAdtximdaUJHvgHb1LJ9QpNu9T/odFwtjzM9YKVnhu2fJzogkednbZIbi95A+wk kmyjNKUEmhu7CDjyJqQYscQceyGXLdyFQmfF7tWo8R5y8oh1nfcbCzrE7RCS4ISYlJC+ Gg+9RmrxWggkN5Utt9gXbmpIFm/wbLt05tYGRE7QJJLoUATWApZbWmZWI3PBaCO3i/dA ZlBpD9VIqdb8HBN7HcUajI1wWQgIKP5QYALHtdYMQQv8MncpDo8tBzp7bJyO6BY/Jdmb HWrQ== X-Received: by 10.229.115.7 with SMTP id g7mr16219972qcq.2.1416023192084; Fri, 14 Nov 2014 19:46:32 -0800 (PST) Received: from [192.168.1.133] (108-247-127-76.lightspeed.sntcca.sbcglobal.net. [108.247.127.76]) by mx.google.com with ESMTPSA id 91sm22359633qgy.15.2014.11.14.19.46.30 for (version=TLSv1 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-RC4-SHA bits=128/128); Fri, 14 Nov 2014 19:46:31 -0800 (PST) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 7.3 \(1878.6\)) From: Mahesh Jethanandani In-Reply-To: Date: Fri, 14 Nov 2014 19:46:28 -0800 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Message-Id: <1E205318-6C2A-4747-840F-2557781BFBE7@gmail.com> References: <31164871.1415934772256.JavaMail.root@mswamui-cedar.atl.sa.earthlink.net> <20141114.105223.344567852.mbj@tail-f.com> <20141114103615.GA66784@elstar.local> To: Kent Watsen X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.1878.6) Archived-At: http://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/netmod/wwKQizkshEwpl6orE-ODI22Z7Kg Cc: "randy_presuhn@mindspring.com" , "netconf@itef.org" , "netmod@ietf.org" Subject: Re: [netmod] how YANG and NETCONF support the long running command (e.g ping) X-BeenThere: netmod@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: NETMOD WG list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sat, 15 Nov 2014 03:46:34 -0000 [Again with chair hat off] On Nov 14, 2014, at 7:17 PM, Kent Watsen wrote: >=20 >=20 >=20 > Regarding the "persistent", "fragmentation" and "datastore-push" = drafts, > and related ideas floating around, I believe that there are the = following > use-cases: >=20 >=20 > 1) request for an unbounded number of periodic responses sent = relatively > frequently (ping) >=20 > 2) request for a large YANG config=3Dfalse list (retrieving interface > statistics) >=20 > 3) request for a large blob (file transfer) >=20 > 4) request for an action that takes a long time to perform (network = link > performance validation) >=20 > 5) subscription request on subtree to receive on-change data = notifications > (config false also) >=20 >=20 >=20 >=20 > The solution to these may or may not overlap. For instance, consider = the > following: >=20 > Options for #1: > A) use a never-ending rpc-reply; server pushes data as it becomes = available > B) initial response returns handle with which client polls for = incremental > results and cancels the request This assumes that client also knows when to terminate the session = (requires server to indicate it is done). I am distinguishing = termination from canceling, with the former being a termination by the = server while cancel is forced by the client. >=20 > Options for #2: > A) pagination, multiple rpcs to return subsets of list > B) break response into blocks returned independently >=20 > Options for #3: > A) use a file-transfer protocol like SCP, SFTP, or FTPS > B) use a never-ending rpc-reply; server stream data as it becomes = available > C) break response into blocks returned independently >=20 > Options for #4: > A) initial response returns handle which the client uses to monitor > progress, receive the final result, and cancel the request Again a minor variation to this use cases is, initial response returns = handle which the client uses to monitor progress, receives the final = result without requiring client to cancel the request. Case in point = being traceroute command, where the server knows when to terminate the = request. The idea being that the end of transaction can come from the = client or the server. >=20 > Options for #5: > A) use netconf notifications as is > B) use a modified version of netconf notifications for higher = throughput > C) direct responses into a queue that the client can poll >=20 >=20 >=20 > Thoughts? Any additions? Mahesh Jethanandani mjethanandani@gmail.com From nobody Sat Nov 15 10:20:29 2014 Return-Path: X-Original-To: netmod@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: netmod@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 97AC91ACE1B for ; Sat, 15 Nov 2014 10:20:21 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.979 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.979 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, FM_FORGED_GMAIL=0.622, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW=-0.7, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id bt6qgI2IzGYO for ; Sat, 15 Nov 2014 10:20:19 -0800 (PST) Received: from mail-qg0-f42.google.com (mail-qg0-f42.google.com [209.85.192.42]) (using TLSv1 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-RC4-SHA (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 10CF61ACE60 for ; Sat, 15 Nov 2014 10:20:05 -0800 (PST) Received: by mail-qg0-f42.google.com with SMTP id i50so13618249qgf.15 for ; Sat, 15 Nov 2014 10:20:04 -0800 (PST) X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20130820; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:in-reply-to:references:date :message-id:subject:from:to:cc:content-type; bh=/cMQzEFmPAzMY1AmLh5m+V9ctlxMpIVTVagORtrcKeU=; b=Lf9mtsqbXt1cS8eL1ukjjHdWICDhn9wk30C/WJVgRuibYyXF94aNBrFFK5d/j7dwvL HfvZBiX693HAWvUbZl5R1qTi5sMAz1D5OkXwaYLS17dWQG+pEjW9NEdgg8B+ovm8BxOR sviBD9EH/I3J8ojU1QyobBv/zHJTBf9U9YsgEk0RWguQmMaTU9LNvcc0Uft91VN3ice4 ttoa6LRlH0mV0+bJgEVhzTNDN916GAkX7XISEYfhvspDSyPudeln1yvEeXttntz2QFRe eh04UwxofRUO5PGDMaU49s2o3aVEbhggrpBYoyAoVr2f/732/AjA+8tFtve/sMV+IDbl sD8Q== X-Gm-Message-State: ALoCoQn/LlqwddoqG2qFGObmjltqQhBQOr+JItZytkboji9vZUg1hMyqZhf3IV1ldvZRGUNKQx7q MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Received: by 10.140.81.36 with SMTP id e33mr20419935qgd.90.1416075604335; Sat, 15 Nov 2014 10:20:04 -0800 (PST) Received: by 10.140.37.52 with HTTP; Sat, 15 Nov 2014 10:20:04 -0800 (PST) In-Reply-To: <11806166.1416022706534.JavaMail.root@mswamui-swiss.atl.sa.earthlink.net> References: <11806166.1416022706534.JavaMail.root@mswamui-swiss.atl.sa.earthlink.net> Date: Sat, 15 Nov 2014 10:20:04 -0800 Message-ID: From: Andy Bierman To: Randy Presuhn Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Archived-At: http://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/netmod/HlqdXhP4Xvrot8SXjBwHOADWai8 Cc: "netconf@itef.org" , "netmod@ietf.org" Subject: Re: [netmod] how YANG and NETCONF support the long running command (e.g ping) X-BeenThere: netmod@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: NETMOD WG list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sat, 15 Nov 2014 18:20:21 -0000 On Fri, Nov 14, 2014 at 7:38 PM, Randy Presuhn wrote: > Hi - > >>From: Kent Watsen >>Sent: Nov 14, 2014 7:17 PM > ... >>Regarding the "persistent", "fragmentation" and "datastore-push" drafts, >>and related ideas floating around, I believe that there are the following >>use-cases: >> >> >>1) request for an unbounded number of periodic responses sent relatively >>frequently (ping) > ... >>4) request for an action that takes a long time to perform (network link >>performance validation) > > I think the analysis neglects an important dimension of (1) and (4). > Particularly for management applications, there may be multiple > consumers of the (intermediate and final) results of these operations. > An RPC-centric approach scales poorly for these. If I have three > management systems in different control centers interested in the > latency of a particular link, they shouldn't need to be running > three separate ongoing tests concurrently. > Are you suggesting an alternate solution path? Multiple consumers sounds like a pub/sub model, and perhaps some multicast transport. IMO, we need that more than "CLI-over-NETCONF". Another problem that seems to be ignored here (except by Martin) is the resources required in the server to buffer unlimited events while the client is blocked (at TCP level). The server is expected to concurrently invoke the periodic commands and independently buffer the output for each client to accept at their leisure. The NETCONF replay buffer is not unbounded. Long running commands like "ping" need to account for limited resources on the server. > Randy > Andy From nobody Sat Nov 15 12:22:32 2014 Return-Path: X-Original-To: netmod@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: netmod@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id EFD361A1B79 for ; Sat, 15 Nov 2014 12:22:28 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001] autolearn=ham Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id AS_x2bbcpNdo for ; Sat, 15 Nov 2014 12:22:26 -0800 (PST) Received: from elasmtp-banded.atl.sa.earthlink.net (elasmtp-banded.atl.sa.earthlink.net [209.86.89.70]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 896811A1B75 for ; Sat, 15 Nov 2014 12:22:25 -0800 (PST) DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=dk20050327; d=mindspring.com; b=TEbrd8t/MvEf0Q/Bm5wR2mSaVliXwDUSH1HAX1E/7qHgNZM0vGKZ/M6QYWm4p13g; h=Message-ID:Date:From:Reply-To:To:Subject:Mime-Version:Content-Type:Content-Transfer-Encoding:X-Mailer:X-ELNK-Trace:X-Originating-IP; Received: from [209.86.224.29] (helo=mswamui-cedar.atl.sa.earthlink.net) by elasmtp-banded.atl.sa.earthlink.net with esmtpa (Exim 4.67) (envelope-from ) id 1XpjrV-0007D4-BH for netmod@ietf.org; Sat, 15 Nov 2014 15:22:25 -0500 Received: from 76.254.54.138 by webmail.earthlink.net with HTTP; Sat, 15 Nov 2014 15:22:24 -0500 Message-ID: <30571357.1416082945302.JavaMail.root@mswamui-cedar.atl.sa.earthlink.net> Date: Sat, 15 Nov 2014 12:22:24 -0800 (GMT-08:00) From: Randy Presuhn To: "netmod@ietf.org" Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: EarthLink Zoo Mail 1.0 X-ELNK-Trace: 4488c18417c9426da92b9037bc8bcf44d4c20f6b8d69d88825aa8a2065c9591f65ddf06f390157fe15d6b46b4cc894f4350badd9bab72f9c350badd9bab72f9c X-Originating-IP: 209.86.224.29 Archived-At: http://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/netmod/GripGt7d0ngn498MpM6P6p3G5wA Subject: Re: [netmod] how YANG and NETCONF support the long running command (e.g ping) X-BeenThere: netmod@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list Reply-To: Randy Presuhn List-Id: NETMOD WG list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sat, 15 Nov 2014 20:22:29 -0000 Hi - >From: Andy Bierman >Sent: Nov 15, 2014 10:20 AM >To: Randy Presuhn >Cc: "netconf@itef.org" , "netmod@ietf.org" >Subject: Re: [netmod] how YANG and NETCONF support the long running command (e.g ping) > >On Fri, Nov 14, 2014 at 7:38 PM, Randy Presuhn > wrote: >> Hi - >> >>>From: Kent Watsen >>>Sent: Nov 14, 2014 7:17 PM >> ... >>>Regarding the "persistent", "fragmentation" and "datastore-push" drafts, >>>and related ideas floating around, I believe that there are the following >>>use-cases: >>> >>> >>>1) request for an unbounded number of periodic responses sent relatively >>>frequently (ping) >> ... >>>4) request for an action that takes a long time to perform (network link >>>performance validation) >> >> I think the analysis neglects an important dimension of (1) and (4). >> Particularly for management applications, there may be multiple >> consumers of the (intermediate and final) results of these operations. >> An RPC-centric approach scales poorly for these. If I have three >> management systems in different control centers interested in the >> latency of a particular link, they shouldn't need to be running >> three separate ongoing tests concurrently. >> > > >Are you suggesting an alternate solution path? I'm suggesting that (at least) it should be modeled differently. As I see it, setting up long-running operations is really no different from configuring an application, and should not be modeled any differently from how one would configure any other long-running application. Whether a configuration management protocol is the correct choice for gathering intermediate and final results from a long-running application is a separate question. >Multiple consumers sounds like a pub/sub model, and perhaps >some multicast transport. IMO, we need that more than >"CLI-over-NETCONF". While I wouldn't go so far as to suggest multicast transport, I very much agree that "CLI-over-NETCONF" can lead to some choices that don't make much sense to me. >Another problem that seems to be ignored here (except by Martin) >is the resources required in the server to buffer unlimited events >while the client is blocked (at TCP level). The server is expected >to concurrently invoke the periodic commands and independently >buffer the output for each client to accept at their leisure. This is another strong argument in favor of decoupling the configuration of long-running applications from the gathering up of their outputs. >The NETCONF replay buffer is not unbounded. >Long running commands like "ping" need to account for >limited resources on the server. This, too, is an argument in favor of decoupling the mechanism used to configure the application from the mechanisms used to gather results. Randy From nobody Sat Nov 15 13:57:48 2014 Return-Path: X-Original-To: netmod@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: netmod@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 53B301A8873 for ; Sat, 15 Nov 2014 13:57:47 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.979 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.979 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, FM_FORGED_GMAIL=0.622, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW=-0.7, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id XIqOqyFvre75 for ; Sat, 15 Nov 2014 13:57:45 -0800 (PST) Received: from mail-qg0-f42.google.com (mail-qg0-f42.google.com [209.85.192.42]) (using TLSv1 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-RC4-SHA (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id D308C1A00E4 for ; Sat, 15 Nov 2014 13:57:44 -0800 (PST) Received: by mail-qg0-f42.google.com with SMTP id i50so13740820qgf.15 for ; Sat, 15 Nov 2014 13:57:44 -0800 (PST) X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20130820; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:in-reply-to:references:date :message-id:subject:from:to:cc:content-type; bh=Fqahd964OStEZnepBIvb2L2n+wg0SYpMn3Jsb5YSW5Q=; b=hhPQ3GEQn7o9k+EqbKxnMvclrcr3rDuklDGDtlIKQstraCYM9kET2iFh9AJP/0LOYD zsw4nUlUKhf+ZviQQAYAN1tOu6KeOSAJYSqITfOW/Vt2chqEpmgFVhU6EBRH4JtGo+Hc H+drswt2F6sTf2TMtuhtS30CBI7NQfrPdrxixTz/FG3x4hUE0d6wAR/OZbqfoVGK9HRx 7SIUvBQH1IaFBYD5Lxz5QiwT4jsMQRmxZFy+HKtl2UYq7NDsqebMw3v/+5TtOiDXRIbo kJv3MlVMzFOY6TqR6ePEYVHRmoHMS9gMfB85iIP0C4AamNyUOdv8SCcPeWBWtZT+kfpT j+eA== X-Gm-Message-State: ALoCoQlsnRHNXcTBrEErlbjMLDVLYlCLknN3NbU+PC6hgRaPnL7h0/MOdjeqJuTE9x0EU8ASlcbG MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Received: by 10.140.104.169 with SMTP id a38mr16262200qgf.35.1416088664148; Sat, 15 Nov 2014 13:57:44 -0800 (PST) Received: by 10.140.37.52 with HTTP; Sat, 15 Nov 2014 13:57:44 -0800 (PST) In-Reply-To: <30571357.1416082945302.JavaMail.root@mswamui-cedar.atl.sa.earthlink.net> References: <30571357.1416082945302.JavaMail.root@mswamui-cedar.atl.sa.earthlink.net> Date: Sat, 15 Nov 2014 13:57:44 -0800 Message-ID: From: Andy Bierman To: Randy Presuhn Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Archived-At: http://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/netmod/pCvJRVb9NTECDHaKPyH5R1B29VI Cc: "netmod@ietf.org" Subject: Re: [netmod] how YANG and NETCONF support the long running command (e.g ping) X-BeenThere: netmod@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: NETMOD WG list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sat, 15 Nov 2014 21:57:47 -0000 On Sat, Nov 15, 2014 at 12:22 PM, Randy Presuhn wrote: > Hi - > >>From: Andy Bierman >>Sent: Nov 15, 2014 10:20 AM >>To: Randy Presuhn >>Cc: "netconf@itef.org" , "netmod@ietf.org" >>Subject: Re: [netmod] how YANG and NETCONF support the long running command (e.g ping) >> >>On Fri, Nov 14, 2014 at 7:38 PM, Randy Presuhn >> wrote: >>> Hi - >>> >>>>From: Kent Watsen >>>>Sent: Nov 14, 2014 7:17 PM >>> ... >>>>Regarding the "persistent", "fragmentation" and "datastore-push" drafts, >>>>and related ideas floating around, I believe that there are the following >>>>use-cases: >>>> >>>> >>>>1) request for an unbounded number of periodic responses sent relatively >>>>frequently (ping) >>> ... >>>>4) request for an action that takes a long time to perform (network link >>>>performance validation) >>> >>> I think the analysis neglects an important dimension of (1) and (4). >>> Particularly for management applications, there may be multiple >>> consumers of the (intermediate and final) results of these operations. >>> An RPC-centric approach scales poorly for these. If I have three >>> management systems in different control centers interested in the >>> latency of a particular link, they shouldn't need to be running >>> three separate ongoing tests concurrently. >>> >> >> >>Are you suggesting an alternate solution path? > > I'm suggesting that (at least) it should be modeled differently. > As I see it, setting up long-running operations is really > no different from configuring an application, and should > not be modeled any differently from how one would configure > any other long-running application. > > Whether a configuration management protocol is the correct > choice for gathering intermediate and final results from > a long-running application is a separate question. > >>Multiple consumers sounds like a pub/sub model, and perhaps >>some multicast transport. IMO, we need that more than >>"CLI-over-NETCONF". > > While I wouldn't go so far as to suggest multicast transport, > I very much agree that "CLI-over-NETCONF" can lead to some > choices that don't make much sense to me. > >>Another problem that seems to be ignored here (except by Martin) >>is the resources required in the server to buffer unlimited events >>while the client is blocked (at TCP level). The server is expected >>to concurrently invoke the periodic commands and independently >>buffer the output for each client to accept at their leisure. > > This is another strong argument in favor of decoupling the > configuration of long-running applications from the gathering > up of their outputs. > >>The NETCONF replay buffer is not unbounded. >>Long running commands like "ping" need to account for >>limited resources on the server. > > This, too, is an argument in favor of decoupling the > mechanism used to configure the application from the > mechanisms used to gather results. > Hmmm, sounds familiar... something like the usrHistoryTable I wrote for RFC 2021? Setting up periodic collections of data nodes in buckets is not much different than collections of periodic "action results". I think long-lived non-periodic actions would need a different solution anyway (e.g, OK if is RPC-based). > Randy Andy > > _______________________________________________ > netmod mailing list > netmod@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/netmod From nobody Sat Nov 15 16:55:55 2014 Return-Path: X-Original-To: netmod@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: netmod@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 26B761A8963 for ; Sat, 15 Nov 2014 16:55:53 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.999 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.999 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id f1nDH2-sNv_L for ; Sat, 15 Nov 2014 16:55:51 -0800 (PST) Received: from mail-qa0-x230.google.com (mail-qa0-x230.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:400d:c00::230]) (using TLSv1 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-RC4-SHA (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 5AFB71A895E for ; Sat, 15 Nov 2014 16:55:51 -0800 (PST) Received: by mail-qa0-f48.google.com with SMTP id x12so13067723qac.7 for ; Sat, 15 Nov 2014 16:55:50 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20120113; h=content-type:mime-version:subject:from:in-reply-to:date:cc :message-id:references:to; bh=QYqtNcUUW7rLEp2FkctFzNpdkmZfPA1UqCzIu0hIe5g=; b=D2f26hzUFU3jY7HZknD5mK+3siD4D++DNmP07Rl6Zmljkix1xm/wdQGFVlzB1IPXIq q5qKYcK4c9yrWSMyg+MKEuW0vu/4iyFMI3DJ5m+ErTEq7RrpHmdANTcOaSr35c4xyA3q jB0EguwhVnnAuJ/57qxvHiWc9xdA5psg0ux+SoGgPHEh3RqHIsYQgQDAubCRZSt52Iy1 n1P7Hnzm9E4Xw2uc31P2JVt/D0n4HwBwQI37CnRJOt5z+qedi8diZxHbzKcjT0pcP8mI QPiBvNwUvfbu5m6pISloUWq1+XwD8N6iPyVwsyzgYmNLES+MjF1cn7mc+mc55aFLlU1P TOpw== X-Received: by 10.140.19.227 with SMTP id 90mr22627980qgh.12.1416099350603; Sat, 15 Nov 2014 16:55:50 -0800 (PST) Received: from [192.168.1.133] (108-247-127-76.lightspeed.sntcca.sbcglobal.net. [108.247.127.76]) by mx.google.com with ESMTPSA id p106sm30745684qgd.36.2014.11.15.16.55.49 for (version=TLSv1 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-RC4-SHA bits=128/128); Sat, 15 Nov 2014 16:55:49 -0800 (PST) Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="Apple-Mail=_F3D61894-CAF9-420A-9F89-34E1AF9900FD" Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 7.3 \(1878.6\)) From: Mahesh Jethanandani In-Reply-To: Date: Sat, 15 Nov 2014 16:55:42 -0800 Message-Id: References: <11806166.1416022706534.JavaMail.root@mswamui-swiss.atl.sa.earthlink.net> To: Andy Bierman X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.1878.6) Archived-At: http://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/netmod/6ggBuaXVY7MalumBJUduSSyjhqA Cc: Randy Presuhn , "netconf@itef.org" , "netmod@ietf.org" Subject: Re: [netmod] how YANG and NETCONF support the long running command (e.g ping) X-BeenThere: netmod@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: NETMOD WG list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sun, 16 Nov 2014 00:55:53 -0000 --Apple-Mail=_F3D61894-CAF9-420A-9F89-34E1AF9900FD Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii [Still with the chair hat off] Andy, On Nov 15, 2014, at 10:20 AM, Andy Bierman wrote: > Another problem that seems to be ignored here (except by Martin) > is the resources required in the server to buffer unlimited events > while the client is blocked (at TCP level). The server is expected > to concurrently invoke the periodic commands and independently > buffer the output for each client to accept at their leisure. This problem is no different from a ZWP attack as described in Section 3 = of RFC 6428. As described in the RFC, the server is not prevented from = closing connections that are either slow to respond or not reading the = data. Mahesh Jethanandani mjethanandani@gmail.com --Apple-Mail=_F3D61894-CAF9-420A-9F89-34E1AF9900FD Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/html; charset=us-ascii [Still = with the chair hat = off]

Andy,

On Nov 15, 2014, = at 10:20 AM, Andy Bierman <andy@yumaworks.com> = wrote:

Another problem that seems to be = ignored here (except by Martin)
is the resources required in = the server to buffer unlimited events
while the client is blocked = (at TCP level).  The server is expected
to concurrently invoke the periodic commands and = independently
buffer the output for each client to accept at their = leisure.

This problem is no different = from a ZWP attack as described in Section 3 of RFC 6428. As described in = the RFC, the server is not prevented from closing connections that are = either slow to respond or not reading the data.

Mahesh Jethanandani
<= div>


= --Apple-Mail=_F3D61894-CAF9-420A-9F89-34E1AF9900FD-- From nobody Sat Nov 15 16:57:21 2014 Return-Path: X-Original-To: netmod@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: netmod@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id CE5521A8943 for ; Sat, 15 Nov 2014 16:57:19 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.999 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.999 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id oxGwAGKTNJjg for ; Sat, 15 Nov 2014 16:57:18 -0800 (PST) Received: from mail-qa0-x233.google.com (mail-qa0-x233.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:400d:c00::233]) (using TLSv1 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-RC4-SHA (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id D689B1A8940 for ; Sat, 15 Nov 2014 16:57:17 -0800 (PST) Received: by mail-qa0-f51.google.com with SMTP id k15so1693552qaq.24 for ; Sat, 15 Nov 2014 16:57:17 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20120113; h=content-type:mime-version:subject:from:in-reply-to:date:cc :message-id:references:to; bh=wjQzFvElYk1chipFc/46iAigKgvzGABqxArGhT8IMgY=; b=Jmeo64b0T+IZ0MJG5GclYDFjCB+93ic4pLG6CU6I88DDF8ooyKcqMl7GySHIPhVUYE D0HVAavJdN4ZhX2QXvSg50zpNp3mPHm4uuL8xgtRfeazYZZkFr2b/y3RF4EngP1ISPSw db59NOiUTb/yApyNfa8uAbt1OwdIb7skqgf5q8krlBWE4ZDHZItUCHNBp5PMRHfkbaam CV1W05IZImPhcYTTyngFLFWeZef92ZyfbNw/vb2dlH22FQdgxzm0X7SqCyxbI/JLJSxd IsXAazBs5Bp1mE1WL5IPOzRX1WTuZNsYhPZDsbSqu+gbYLkaYo+dyQX+z/sZ4htPTlhw QEfw== X-Received: by 10.140.85.233 with SMTP id n96mr22817292qgd.78.1416099437132; Sat, 15 Nov 2014 16:57:17 -0800 (PST) Received: from [192.168.1.133] (108-247-127-76.lightspeed.sntcca.sbcglobal.net. [108.247.127.76]) by mx.google.com with ESMTPSA id m8sm30846460qag.25.2014.11.15.16.57.16 for (version=TLSv1 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-RC4-SHA bits=128/128); Sat, 15 Nov 2014 16:57:16 -0800 (PST) Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="Apple-Mail=_40252D67-CCB2-4F17-85CC-9CF185FDBBE1" Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 7.3 \(1878.6\)) From: Mahesh Jethanandani In-Reply-To: Date: Sat, 15 Nov 2014 16:57:14 -0800 Message-Id: <5374CF11-DD96-487A-A1FE-0F62D0CF0FF9@gmail.com> References: <11806166.1416022706534.JavaMail.root@mswamui-swiss.atl.sa.earthlink.net> To: Andy Bierman X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.1878.6) Archived-At: http://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/netmod/eMB6zQfsrfdk9dkTC9K67rAHq_U Cc: Randy Presuhn , "netconf@itef.org" , "netmod@ietf.org" Subject: Re: [netmod] how YANG and NETCONF support the long running command (e.g ping) X-BeenThere: netmod@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: NETMOD WG list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sun, 16 Nov 2014 00:57:20 -0000 --Apple-Mail=_40252D67-CCB2-4F17-85CC-9CF185FDBBE1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Sorry. That was RFC 6429 not 6428. On Nov 15, 2014, at 4:55 PM, Mahesh Jethanandani = wrote: > [Still with the chair hat off] >=20 > Andy, >=20 > On Nov 15, 2014, at 10:20 AM, Andy Bierman wrote: >=20 >> Another problem that seems to be ignored here (except by Martin) >> is the resources required in the server to buffer unlimited events >> while the client is blocked (at TCP level). The server is expected >> to concurrently invoke the periodic commands and independently >> buffer the output for each client to accept at their leisure. >=20 > This problem is no different from a ZWP attack as described in Section = 3 of RFC 6428. As described in the RFC, the server is not prevented from = closing connections that are either slow to respond or not reading the = data. >=20 > Mahesh Jethanandani > mjethanandani@gmail.com >=20 >=20 >=20 Mahesh Jethanandani mjethanandani@gmail.com --Apple-Mail=_40252D67-CCB2-4F17-85CC-9CF185FDBBE1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/html; charset=us-ascii Sorry. = That was RFC 6429 not 6428.

On Nov 15, = 2014, at 4:55 PM, Mahesh Jethanandani <mjethanandani@gmail.com> = wrote:

[Still = with the chair hat = off]

Andy,

On Nov 15, 2014, = at 10:20 AM, Andy Bierman <andy@yumaworks.com> = wrote:

Another problem that seems to be = ignored here (except by Martin)
is the resources required in = the server to buffer unlimited events
while the client is blocked = (at TCP level).  The server is expected
to concurrently invoke the periodic commands and = independently
buffer the output for each client to accept at their = leisure.

This problem is no different = from a ZWP attack as described in Section 3 of RFC 6428. As described in = the RFC, the server is not prevented from closing connections that are = either slow to respond or not reading the data.

Mahesh Jethanandani
<= div>



=
Mahesh Jethanandani
<= div>


= --Apple-Mail=_40252D67-CCB2-4F17-85CC-9CF185FDBBE1-- From nobody Sat Nov 15 18:06:19 2014 Return-Path: X-Original-To: netmod@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: netmod@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id D95E61A016F for ; Sat, 15 Nov 2014 18:06:17 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001] autolearn=ham Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id pLKXdj7y43w5 for ; Sat, 15 Nov 2014 18:06:15 -0800 (PST) Received: from elasmtp-spurfowl.atl.sa.earthlink.net (elasmtp-spurfowl.atl.sa.earthlink.net [209.86.89.66]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7337C1A016A for ; Sat, 15 Nov 2014 18:06:15 -0800 (PST) DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=dk20050327; d=mindspring.com; b=G8L7ohLtS+loGr2Asuut+u2i4I1s5W0Gnk2ORqY5DrdCjOYAT/1B2v7P9AiTD0vY; h=Message-ID:Date:From:Reply-To:To:Subject:Mime-Version:Content-Type:Content-Transfer-Encoding:X-Mailer:X-ELNK-Trace:X-Originating-IP; Received: from [209.86.224.39] (helo=elwamui-little.atl.sa.earthlink.net) by elasmtp-spurfowl.atl.sa.earthlink.net with esmtpa (Exim 4.67) (envelope-from ) id 1XppEE-00052D-4K for netmod@ietf.org; Sat, 15 Nov 2014 21:06:14 -0500 Received: from 76.254.54.138 by webmail.earthlink.net with HTTP; Sat, 15 Nov 2014 21:06:13 -0500 Message-ID: <18132656.1416103573738.JavaMail.root@elwamui-little.atl.sa.earthlink.net> Date: Sat, 15 Nov 2014 18:06:13 -0800 (GMT-08:00) From: Randy Presuhn To: netmod@ietf.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: EarthLink Zoo Mail 1.0 X-ELNK-Trace: 4488c18417c9426da92b9037bc8bcf44d4c20f6b8d69d88825aa8a2065c9591fa3dd0211f01b5da8c4b947bc1c45b90b350badd9bab72f9c350badd9bab72f9c X-Originating-IP: 209.86.224.39 Archived-At: http://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/netmod/zsrPkb_mezfZyC1Ww-4AYq7EpUA Subject: Re: [netmod] how YANG and NETCONF support the long running command (e.g ping) X-BeenThere: netmod@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list Reply-To: Randy Presuhn List-Id: NETMOD WG list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sun, 16 Nov 2014 02:06:18 -0000 Hi - >From: Mahesh Jethanandani >Sent: Nov 15, 2014 4:55 PM >To: Andy Bierman >Cc: Randy Presuhn , "netconf@itef.org" , "netmod@ietf.org" >Subject: Re: [netmod] how YANG and NETCONF support the long running command (e.g ping) > >[Still with the chair hat off] > >Andy, > >On Nov 15, 2014, at 10:20 AM, Andy Bierman wrote: > >> Another problem that seems to be ignored here (except by Martin) >> is the resources required in the server to buffer unlimited events >> while the client is blocked (at TCP level). The server is expected >> to concurrently invoke the periodic commands and independently >> buffer the output for each client to accept at their leisure. > >This problem is no different from a ZWP attack as described >in Section 3 of RFC 6428. As described in the RFC, the server >is not prevented from closing connections that are either slow >to respond or not reading the data. No, the problems are different. ZWP closes the window. The concern here is that the client may read events at a slower rate than the server generates them. The client's window would more-or-less alternately open and close, but the server queue would grow without bound. Even if the problems were equivalent, the proposed mitigation strategy (closing connections that are not reading data as rapidly as the server generates it) could be disastrous in fire-fighting situations, such as using a dial-in link to manually fix a hosed network. Or should one just use SNMP to handle emergency configuration changes in such situations? :-) Randy From nobody Mon Nov 17 07:59:30 2014 Return-Path: X-Original-To: netmod@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: netmod@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id C5F911A7013 for ; Mon, 17 Nov 2014 07:59:29 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.999 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.999 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, J_CHICKENPOX_31=0.6, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW=-0.7, SPF_PASS=-0.001, UNPARSEABLE_RELAY=0.001] autolearn=ham Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id ZgRX4maiP1PC for ; Mon, 17 Nov 2014 07:59:27 -0800 (PST) Received: from relais-inet.francetelecom.com (relais-ias244.francetelecom.com [80.12.204.244]) (using TLSv1 with cipher ADH-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 0F1E81A700B for ; Mon, 17 Nov 2014 07:59:27 -0800 (PST) Received: from omfeda08.si.francetelecom.fr (unknown [xx.xx.xx.201]) by omfeda11.si.francetelecom.fr (ESMTP service) with ESMTP id EA8E41B8547 for ; Mon, 17 Nov 2014 16:59:24 +0100 (CET) Received: from Exchangemail-eme2.itn.ftgroup (unknown [10.114.31.16]) by omfeda08.si.francetelecom.fr (ESMTP service) with ESMTP id A13413840E9 for ; Mon, 17 Nov 2014 16:59:21 +0100 (CET) Received: from OPEXCLILM34.corporate.adroot.infra.ftgroup ([169.254.4.17]) by OPEXCLILH05.corporate.adroot.infra.ftgroup ([10.114.31.16]) with mapi id 14.03.0210.002; Mon, 17 Nov 2014 16:59:21 +0100 From: To: "netmod@ietf.org" Thread-Topic: draft-ietf-netmod-acl-model-00.txt Thread-Index: AdACfW2q/zJWqThwQ2GWdXtQRtYgEg== Date: Mon, 17 Nov 2014 15:59:21 +0000 Message-ID: <23299_1416239961_546A1B59_23299_3509_1_9E32478DFA9976438E7A22F69B08FF921769D1@OPEXCLILM34.corporate.adroot.infra.ftgroup> Accept-Language: fr-FR, en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-originating-ip: [10.168.234.5] Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable MIME-Version: 1.0 X-PMX-Version: 6.0.3.2322014, Antispam-Engine: 2.7.2.2107409, Antispam-Data: 2014.11.17.101818 Archived-At: http://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/netmod/VDmxbbA2B2Fymk6qymDcbrTDUME Subject: [netmod] draft-ietf-netmod-acl-model-00.txt X-BeenThere: netmod@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: NETMOD WG list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 17 Nov 2014 15:59:29 -0000 Dear Authors, I just had a look at this draft which sounds important for us. Please find some comments, I did not take time to review comments already d= one on the list, so sorry for the potential overlap. The current structure is a good base but I would add the followings : For IP filters : - dscp matching using a list of dscp rather than just a value - Requires IP fragment flags support - Requires IP packet length matching as a range - Requires TCP flags matching - Requires ICMP code matching - Requires IPv6 extension header matching For MAC filters : - Requires dot1p matching using list - Requires etype matching - requires vlan tag matching (inner or outer) In term of actions, I would be in favor of having policing (rate-limiting) = as part of standard. Note that BGP Flowspec (RFC 5575) is standard and supp= orts this, I think YANG ACL must at least be aligned with this. There are some typo issues : +--:(hiearchical-policer) +--rw hierarchitacl-policer? string Best Regards, Stephane -----Original Message----- From: I-D-Announce [mailto:i-d-announce-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of inte= rnet-drafts@ietf.org Sent: Tuesday, November 11, 2014 20:36 To: i-d-announce@ietf.org Cc: netmod@ietf.org Subject: I-D Action: draft-ietf-netmod-acl-model-00.txt A New Internet-Draft is available from the on-line Internet-Drafts director= ies. This draft is a work item of the NETCONF Data Modeling Language Working Gr= oup of the IETF. Title : Network Access Control List (ACL) YANG Data Model Authors : Dean Bogdanovic Kiran Agrahara Sreenivasa Lisa Huang Dana Blair Filename : draft-ietf-netmod-acl-model-00.txt Pages : 23 Date : 2014-11-10 Abstract: This document describes a data model of Access Control List (ACL) basic building blocks. The IETF datatracker status page for this draft is: https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-netmod-acl-model/ There's also a htmlized version available at: http://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-netmod-acl-model-00 Please note that it may take a couple of minutes from the time of submissio= n until the htmlized version and diff are available at tools.ietf.org. Internet-Drafts are also available by anonymous FTP at: ftp://ftp.ietf.org/internet-drafts/ _______________________________________________ I-D-Announce mailing list I-D-Announce@ietf.org https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/i-d-announce Internet-Draft directories: http://www.ietf.org/shadow.html or ftp://ftp.ie= tf.org/ietf/1shadow-sites.txt ___________________________________________________________________________= ______________________________________________ Ce message et ses pieces jointes peuvent contenir des informations confiden= tielles ou privilegiees et ne doivent donc pas etre diffuses, exploites ou copies sans autorisation. Si vous avez recu= ce message par erreur, veuillez le signaler a l'expediteur et le detruire ainsi que les pieces jointes. Les messages el= ectroniques etant susceptibles d'alteration, Orange decline toute responsabilite si ce message a ete altere, deforme ou = falsifie. Merci. This message and its attachments may contain confidential or privileged inf= ormation that may be protected by law; they should not be distributed, used or copied without authorisation. If you have received this email in error, please notify the sender and dele= te this message and its attachments. As emails may be altered, Orange is not liable for messages that have been = modified, changed or falsified. Thank you. From nobody Mon Nov 17 17:08:33 2014 Return-Path: X-Original-To: netmod@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: netmod@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id DAA2C1AD022 for ; Mon, 17 Nov 2014 17:08:29 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.902 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.902 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, SPF_HELO_PASS=-0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id syrpZMfbxsvV for ; Mon, 17 Nov 2014 17:08:26 -0800 (PST) Received: from na01-bl2-obe.outbound.protection.outlook.com (mail-bl2on0107.outbound.protection.outlook.com [65.55.169.107]) (using TLSv1 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 4E1EB1AD024 for ; Mon, 17 Nov 2014 17:08:26 -0800 (PST) Received: from CO1PR05MB458.namprd05.prod.outlook.com (10.141.72.140) by CO1PR05MB458.namprd05.prod.outlook.com (10.141.72.140) with Microsoft SMTP Server (TLS) id 15.1.16.15; Tue, 18 Nov 2014 01:08:24 +0000 Received: from CO1PR05MB458.namprd05.prod.outlook.com ([169.254.10.239]) by CO1PR05MB458.namprd05.prod.outlook.com ([169.254.10.239]) with mapi id 15.01.0016.006; Tue, 18 Nov 2014 01:08:23 +0000 From: Kent Watsen To: Mahesh Jethanandani , Martin Bjorklund Thread-Topic: [netmod] how YANG and NETCONF support the long running command (e.g ping) Thread-Index: AQHP/7jgzXhqicIORiS0QZAmPrmG45xf4e6AgAEmxwCABDxVAA== Date: Tue, 18 Nov 2014 01:08:23 +0000 Message-ID: References: <31164871.1415934772256.JavaMail.root@mswamui-cedar.atl.sa.earthlink.net> <20141114.105223.344567852.mbj@tail-f.com> <0AB78156-B34A-461E-A492-32AB2A2EF8CE@gmail.com> In-Reply-To: <0AB78156-B34A-461E-A492-32AB2A2EF8CE@gmail.com> Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: user-agent: Microsoft-MacOutlook/14.4.4.140807 x-originating-ip: [66.129.239.12] x-microsoft-antispam: BCL:0;PCL:0;RULEID:;SRVR:CO1PR05MB458; x-exchange-antispam-report-test: UriScan:; x-exchange-antispam-report-cfa-test: BCL:0;PCL:0;RULEID:;SRVR:CO1PR05MB458; x-forefront-prvs: 039975700A x-forefront-antispam-report: SFV:NSPM; SFS:(10019020)(6009001)(189002)(199003)(36756003)(122556002)(4396001)(99396003)(106116001)(99286002)(87936001)(15975445006)(92726001)(46102003)(92566001)(15202345003)(97736003)(2656002)(120916001)(95666004)(40100003)(106356001)(107046002)(105586002)(77156002)(77096003)(62966003)(31966008)(21056001)(101416001)(50986999)(83506001)(54356999)(76176999)(19580395003)(20776003)(64706001)(66066001)(86362001)(7059030); DIR:OUT; SFP:1102; SCL:1; SRVR:CO1PR05MB458; H:CO1PR05MB458.namprd05.prod.outlook.com; FPR:; MLV:sfv; PTR:InfoNoRecords; MX:1; A:1; LANG:en; Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-ID: Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable MIME-Version: 1.0 X-OriginatorOrg: juniper.net Archived-At: http://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/netmod/wpLBBryf68kZgnwL8l2_dCNjGdQ Cc: "randy_presuhn@mindspring.com" , "netmod@ietf.org" Subject: Re: [netmod] how YANG and NETCONF support the long running command (e.g ping) X-BeenThere: netmod@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: NETMOD WG list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 18 Nov 2014 01:08:30 -0000 >This requires that client knows when or how often to poll for an expected >reply, otherwise as Juergen suggests it leads to unnecessary polls. True enough. One option to resolve this is to use a hanging-reply in that, like select(), the server blocks until the file descriptor has data to read. Extending this analogy further, it's ideal to use a single select() for a number of file descriptors. That is, we could have a special hanging-reply that could be used by any number of long-running commands to return their incremental responses, which scales better. PS: this regards options 1B and 5C in my list (http://www.ietf.org/mail-archive/web/netmod/current/msg11269.html). Kent From nobody Mon Nov 17 17:27:46 2014 Return-Path: X-Original-To: netmod@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: netmod@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id C7C3E1AD02D for ; Mon, 17 Nov 2014 17:27:44 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.902 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.902 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, SPF_HELO_PASS=-0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id YKHOJFsMF2qC for ; Mon, 17 Nov 2014 17:27:43 -0800 (PST) Received: from na01-bn1-obe.outbound.protection.outlook.com (mail-bn1bon0794.outbound.protection.outlook.com [IPv6:2a01:111:f400:fc10::1:794]) (using TLSv1 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id D34741AD026 for ; Mon, 17 Nov 2014 17:27:42 -0800 (PST) Received: from CO1PR05MB458.namprd05.prod.outlook.com (10.141.72.140) by CO1PR05MB459.namprd05.prod.outlook.com (10.141.72.146) with Microsoft SMTP Server (TLS) id 15.1.16.15; Tue, 18 Nov 2014 01:27:19 +0000 Received: from CO1PR05MB458.namprd05.prod.outlook.com ([169.254.10.239]) by CO1PR05MB458.namprd05.prod.outlook.com ([169.254.10.239]) with mapi id 15.01.0016.006; Tue, 18 Nov 2014 01:27:19 +0000 From: Kent Watsen To: Randy Presuhn , "netmod@ietf.org" Thread-Topic: [netmod] how YANG and NETCONF support the long running command (e.g ping) Thread-Index: AQHQAUHlzXhqicIORiS0QZAmPrmG45xlR0IA Date: Tue, 18 Nov 2014 01:27:18 +0000 Message-ID: References: <18132656.1416103573738.JavaMail.root@elwamui-little.atl.sa.earthlink.net> In-Reply-To: <18132656.1416103573738.JavaMail.root@elwamui-little.atl.sa.earthlink.net> Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: user-agent: Microsoft-MacOutlook/14.4.4.140807 x-originating-ip: [66.129.239.12] x-microsoft-antispam: BCL:0;PCL:0;RULEID:;SRVR:CO1PR05MB459; x-exchange-antispam-report-test: UriScan:; x-exchange-antispam-report-cfa-test: BCL:0;PCL:0;RULEID:;SRVR:CO1PR05MB459; x-forefront-prvs: 039975700A x-forefront-antispam-report: SFV:NSPM; SFS:(10019020)(6009001)(199003)(189002)(164054003)(66066001)(2656002)(122556002)(87936001)(64706001)(99396003)(95666004)(120916001)(106116001)(99286002)(106356001)(105586002)(86362001)(77156002)(77096003)(4396001)(92726001)(92566001)(62966003)(76176999)(107046002)(107886001)(83506001)(46102003)(36756003)(97736003)(2501002)(101416001)(21056001)(54356999)(40100003)(50986999)(20776003)(31966008)(7059030); DIR:OUT; SFP:1102; SCL:1; SRVR:CO1PR05MB459; H:CO1PR05MB458.namprd05.prod.outlook.com; FPR:; MLV:sfv; PTR:InfoNoRecords; A:1; MX:1; LANG:en; Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-ID: Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable MIME-Version: 1.0 X-OriginatorOrg: juniper.net Archived-At: http://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/netmod/la2uQqgtTBHWkZnhp1ItzsnyLs4 Subject: Re: [netmod] how YANG and NETCONF support the long running command (e.g ping) X-BeenThere: netmod@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: NETMOD WG list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 18 Nov 2014 01:27:45 -0000 >No, the problems are different. ZWP closes the window. The >concern here is that the client may read events at a slower rate >than the server generates them. The client's window would >more-or-less alternately open and close, but the server queue >would grow without bound. Without bound? The local send-buffer should become full and then pending/subsequent write requests would either 1) block until all the data is sent (for a blocking socket) or 2) return EAGAIN or EWOULDBLOCK (for a non-blocking socket) Thanks, Kent From nobody Mon Nov 17 17:33:17 2014 Return-Path: X-Original-To: netmod@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: netmod@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 116B21AD03B for ; Mon, 17 Nov 2014 17:33:16 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.979 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.979 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, FM_FORGED_GMAIL=0.622, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW=-0.7, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id x_9bgQ5Ze2bU for ; Mon, 17 Nov 2014 17:33:14 -0800 (PST) Received: from mail-qg0-f54.google.com (mail-qg0-f54.google.com [209.85.192.54]) (using TLSv1 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-RC4-SHA (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 25A761AD033 for ; Mon, 17 Nov 2014 17:33:14 -0800 (PST) Received: by mail-qg0-f54.google.com with SMTP id q108so16314967qgd.27 for ; Mon, 17 Nov 2014 17:33:13 -0800 (PST) X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20130820; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:in-reply-to:references:date :message-id:subject:from:to:cc:content-type; bh=U40HepGw1Y7momkKVbyIz2dTZKJ+lPdLP5rj1WewF28=; b=Jou6SIoswAXNywtrJVp2ZNYZFZTtWiLLRQA7T53m2BXMLIOeClWynXRpTKYuNvXEp9 ovsAz/LMYPHndWnKI+e0zkJWext4rDWnaGUq7RSPKAlfC5Q7BxVlX6WHmEl+lRRMMm2l W2MmeVWM/4muDz4vb91R9kll+EvzV2/alH9JsQMUrSppzCnndPfj5wAMGYlGZmXsniu0 z9Rx6GOQP+fqmNXo0psKnO1qzcso+Gy4SruM2kVXUV9s9LiYdPdPne3piZCgeoPs9rOi 2cDtYK8N30gFkGf+uwVB7zvkL1EgZtoi1gpy+2Mh/H8xzTh362e7RFR4t3EdLrfJj22J EBrQ== X-Gm-Message-State: ALoCoQkUhLy53hc902v3KbS3ib7b9ieDA8YHbEocqTvpegTOYfJ1yt6VrzOCoNS85iL2VghD54sl MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Received: by 10.224.12.14 with SMTP id v14mr5298837qav.88.1416274393330; Mon, 17 Nov 2014 17:33:13 -0800 (PST) Received: by 10.140.37.52 with HTTP; Mon, 17 Nov 2014 17:33:13 -0800 (PST) In-Reply-To: References: <18132656.1416103573738.JavaMail.root@elwamui-little.atl.sa.earthlink.net> Date: Mon, 17 Nov 2014 17:33:13 -0800 Message-ID: From: Andy Bierman To: Kent Watsen Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Archived-At: http://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/netmod/d5qwyU8Zcvdfz9rtsHUFJ2qAFnk Cc: Randy Presuhn , "netmod@ietf.org" Subject: Re: [netmod] how YANG and NETCONF support the long running command (e.g ping) X-BeenThere: netmod@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: NETMOD WG list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 18 Nov 2014 01:33:16 -0000 On Mon, Nov 17, 2014 at 5:27 PM, Kent Watsen wrote: > >>No, the problems are different. ZWP closes the window. The >>concern here is that the client may read events at a slower rate >>than the server generates them. The client's window would >>more-or-less alternately open and close, but the server queue >>would grow without bound. > > Without bound? The local send-buffer should become full and then > pending/subsequent write requests would either 1) block until all the data > is sent (for a blocking socket) or 2) return EAGAIN or EWOULDBLOCK (for a > non-blocking socket) > I think Randy is suggesting (or I am) that a solution that models the results in a ring buffer (like the notification replay buffer or usrHistoryTable) will lose results in a predictable way. Gaps in sequence IDs can identify what was lost. IMO we should not expect the server to execute operations and collect results forever. We should not specify implementation details either, like the select loop that must be used. > Thanks, > Kent Andy > > _______________________________________________ > netmod mailing list > netmod@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/netmod From nobody Mon Nov 17 19:15:15 2014 Return-Path: X-Original-To: netmod@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: netmod@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0AA011A0045 for ; Mon, 17 Nov 2014 19:15:14 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -0.6 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-0.6 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_05=-0.5, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001] autolearn=ham Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id lgaZ0Ju3gAnE for ; Mon, 17 Nov 2014 19:15:11 -0800 (PST) Received: from elasmtp-mealy.atl.sa.earthlink.net (elasmtp-mealy.atl.sa.earthlink.net [209.86.89.69]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id BE0861A0020 for ; Mon, 17 Nov 2014 19:15:11 -0800 (PST) DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=dk20050327; d=mindspring.com; b=TXBttt7M8q+goIrexeyTjXIK5TEpsro/XuS7vtBsaPLrXvf76+tk/ewUh1kvZuii; h=Message-ID:Date:From:Reply-To:To:Subject:Mime-Version:Content-Type:Content-Transfer-Encoding:X-Mailer:X-ELNK-Trace:X-Originating-IP; Received: from [209.86.224.48] (helo=elwamui-rustique.atl.sa.earthlink.net) by elasmtp-mealy.atl.sa.earthlink.net with esmtpa (Exim 4.67) (envelope-from ) id 1XqZG2-0005mK-HA for netmod@ietf.org; Mon, 17 Nov 2014 22:15:10 -0500 Received: from 76.254.52.75 by webmail.earthlink.net with HTTP; Mon, 17 Nov 2014 22:15:10 -0500 Message-ID: <23105436.1416280510512.JavaMail.root@elwamui-rustique.atl.sa.earthlink.net> Date: Mon, 17 Nov 2014 19:15:10 -0800 (GMT-08:00) From: Randy Presuhn To: "netmod@ietf.org" Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: EarthLink Zoo Mail 1.0 X-ELNK-Trace: 4488c18417c9426da92b9037bc8bcf44d4c20f6b8d69d88825aa8a2065c9591f0080ee52075608ef5b38899f2c54310f350badd9bab72f9c350badd9bab72f9c X-Originating-IP: 209.86.224.48 Archived-At: http://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/netmod/yEovJoXSpuE8cqSdVAFsHgSPgBU Subject: Re: [netmod] how YANG and NETCONF support the long running command (e.g ping) X-BeenThere: netmod@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list Reply-To: Randy Presuhn List-Id: NETMOD WG list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 18 Nov 2014 03:15:14 -0000 Hi - >From: Andy Bierman >Sent: Nov 17, 2014 5:33 PM >To: Kent Watsen >Cc: Randy Presuhn , "netmod@ietf.org" >Subject: Re: [netmod] how YANG and NETCONF support the long running command (e.g ping) > >On Mon, Nov 17, 2014 at 5:27 PM, Kent Watsen wrote: >> >>>No, the problems are different. ZWP closes the window. The >>>concern here is that the client may read events at a slower rate >>>than the server generates them. The client's window would >>>more-or-less alternately open and close, but the server queue >>>would grow without bound. >> >> Without bound? The local send-buffer should become full and then >> pending/subsequent write requests would either 1) block until all the data >> is sent (for a blocking socket) or 2) return EAGAIN or EWOULDBLOCK (for a >> non-blocking socket) >> > >I think Randy is suggesting (or I am) that a solution that models the results >in a ring buffer (like the notification replay buffer or usrHistoryTable) >will lose results in a predictable way. Gaps in sequence IDs can identify >what was lost. My immediate point was that the analogy to ZWP didn't apply. The secondary point was that using a configuration management channel to convey the output of a more-or-less arbitrary application doesn't make sense, particularly if an application's output might exceed either the capacity of the communication channel or the consuming application(s). Andy's proposal is one way of working around the problem; whether it is optimal depends on the nature of the managed application and its output. There's more to life than ping. >IMO we should not expect the server to execute operations and >collect results forever. We should not specify implementation >details either, like the select loop that must be used. Agreed. However, I'm really bothered by the implication that the Netconf server application is what's *executing* the operations. I think that's a huge mistake in modeling, and would reflect a problematic implementation strategy. This discussion has already illustrated some of the pitfalls. Consider: How is starting up a long-running "ping" any different from initiating a management script which awk/perls multiple tail -f commands? Where does it end? Randy From nobody Tue Nov 18 00:04:12 2014 Return-Path: X-Original-To: netmod@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: netmod@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id A0B721A0049 for ; Tue, 18 Nov 2014 00:04:10 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.144 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.144 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, HELO_EQ_DE=0.35, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, RP_MATCHES_RCVD=-0.594] autolearn=ham Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 9A1bosGMv6eK for ; Tue, 18 Nov 2014 00:04:08 -0800 (PST) Received: from atlas3.jacobs-university.de (atlas3.jacobs-university.de [212.201.44.18]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher AECDH-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 383F71A001D for ; Tue, 18 Nov 2014 00:04:08 -0800 (PST) Received: from localhost (demetrius5.irc-it.jacobs-university.de [10.70.0.222]) by atlas3.jacobs-university.de (Postfix) with ESMTP id D4CFE716 for ; 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Tue, 18 Nov 2014 09:04:05 +0100 (CET) Received: from elstar.local (elstar.jacobs.jacobs-university.de [10.50.231.133]) by hermes.jacobs-university.de (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3D3612002C; Tue, 18 Nov 2014 09:04:05 +0100 (CET) Received: by elstar.local (Postfix, from userid 501) id 701742FA2F8B; Tue, 18 Nov 2014 09:04:02 +0100 (CET) Date: Tue, 18 Nov 2014 09:04:02 +0100 From: Juergen Schoenwaelder To: netmod@ietf.org Message-ID: <20141118080402.GA86374@elstar.local> Mail-Followup-To: netmod@ietf.org References: <20141105140639.GA24235@elstar.local> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <20141105140639.GA24235@elstar.local> User-Agent: Mutt/1.4.2.3i Archived-At: http://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/netmod/VFvgIXfE-XbQWDxYkry-4oXGiOs Subject: Re: [netmod] VRFY :Y10: allow restrictions on enumerations X-BeenThere: netmod@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list Reply-To: Juergen Schoenwaelder List-Id: NETMOD WG list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 18 Nov 2014 08:04:11 -0000 On Wed, Nov 05, 2014 at 03:06:39PM +0100, Juergen Schoenwaelder wrote: > The 2014-10-01 virtual interim meeting proposal is to adopt Y10-01. > Please speak up by Wednesday 2014-11-12 if you disagree with this > proposal. > > For more details, see the issues list and the virtual interim meeting > minutes available here: > > http://svn.tools.ietf.org/svn/wg/netmod/yang-1.1/ > This issue has now been moved to the EDIT state. /js -- Juergen Schoenwaelder Jacobs University Bremen gGmbH Phone: +49 421 200 3587 Campus Ring 1, 28759 Bremen, Germany Fax: +49 421 200 3103 From nobody Tue Nov 18 00:05:27 2014 Return-Path: X-Original-To: netmod@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: netmod@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1BE531A004D for ; 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Tue, 18 Nov 2014 09:05:04 +0100 (CET) Date: Tue, 18 Nov 2014 09:05:04 +0100 From: Juergen Schoenwaelder To: netmod@ietf.org Message-ID: <20141118080504.GB86374@elstar.local> Mail-Followup-To: netmod@ietf.org References: <20141105140906.GB24310@elstar.local> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <20141105140906.GB24310@elstar.local> User-Agent: Mutt/1.4.2.3i Archived-At: http://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/netmod/jCtu61y89YfaHDYO2Crt33INbW4 Subject: Re: [netmod] VRFY :Y28: support default values in leaf-lists X-BeenThere: netmod@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list Reply-To: Juergen Schoenwaelder List-Id: NETMOD WG list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 18 Nov 2014 08:05:24 -0000 On Wed, Nov 05, 2014 at 03:09:06PM +0100, Juergen Schoenwaelder wrote: > The 2014-10-15 virtual interim meeting proposal is to adopt Y28-02. > Please speak up by Wednesday 2014-11-12 if you disagree with this > proposal. > > For more details, see the issues list and the virtual interim meeting > minutes available here: > > http://svn.tools.ietf.org/svn/wg/netmod/yang-1.1/ > This issue has now been moved to the EDIT state. /js -- Juergen Schoenwaelder Jacobs University Bremen gGmbH Phone: +49 421 200 3587 Campus Ring 1, 28759 Bremen, Germany Fax: +49 421 200 3103 From nobody Tue Nov 18 00:06:00 2014 Return-Path: X-Original-To: netmod@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: netmod@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 325E31A0049 for ; 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Tue, 18 Nov 2014 09:05:51 +0100 (CET) Date: Tue, 18 Nov 2014 09:05:51 +0100 From: Juergen Schoenwaelder To: netmod@ietf.org Message-ID: <20141118080551.GC86374@elstar.local> Mail-Followup-To: netmod@ietf.org References: <20141105141022.GC24310@elstar.local> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <20141105141022.GC24310@elstar.local> User-Agent: Mutt/1.4.2.3i Archived-At: http://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/netmod/E_lQRfIa4M3ijBz4zNFkNKVPWUw Subject: Re: [netmod] VRFY :Y42: a better model for configuration versus state data is needed X-BeenThere: netmod@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list Reply-To: Juergen Schoenwaelder List-Id: NETMOD WG list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 18 Nov 2014 08:05:57 -0000 On Wed, Nov 05, 2014 at 03:10:22PM +0100, Juergen Schoenwaelder wrote: > The 2014-10-15 virtual interim meeting proposal is to move Y42 to DEAD > since there is nothing actionable to do until I2RS has decided what > they need; once this happens, we can reopen this issue or add more > concrete issues (which may be a better choice). > > Please speak up by Wednesday 2014-11-12 if you disagree with this > proposal. > > For more details, see the issues list and the virtual interim meeting > minutes available here: > > http://svn.tools.ietf.org/svn/wg/netmod/yang-1.1/ This has been moved to the DEAD state. /js -- Juergen Schoenwaelder Jacobs University Bremen gGmbH Phone: +49 421 200 3587 Campus Ring 1, 28759 Bremen, Germany Fax: +49 421 200 3103 From nobody Tue Nov 18 00:06:45 2014 Return-Path: X-Original-To: netmod@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: netmod@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id C25611A005B for ; Tue, 18 Nov 2014 00:06:42 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.144 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.144 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, HELO_EQ_DE=0.35, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, RP_MATCHES_RCVD=-0.594] autolearn=ham Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id FHiv2vGg166K for ; 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Tue, 18 Nov 2014 09:06:39 +0100 (CET) Received: from localhost (demetrius4.jacobs-university.de [212.201.44.49]) by hermes.jacobs-university.de (Postfix) with ESMTP id E780A20017 for ; Tue, 18 Nov 2014 09:06:38 +0100 (CET) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at jacobs-university.de Received: from hermes.jacobs-university.de ([212.201.44.23]) by localhost (demetrius4.jacobs-university.de [212.201.44.32]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id Vp-qdMlnHE0P; Tue, 18 Nov 2014 09:06:38 +0100 (CET) Received: from elstar.local (elstar.jacobs.jacobs-university.de [10.50.231.133]) by hermes.jacobs-university.de (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3A73620013; Tue, 18 Nov 2014 09:06:38 +0100 (CET) Received: by elstar.local (Postfix, from userid 501) id 36E5D2FA2FF4; Tue, 18 Nov 2014 09:06:38 +0100 (CET) Date: Tue, 18 Nov 2014 09:06:38 +0100 From: Juergen Schoenwaelder To: netmod@ietf.org Message-ID: <20141118080638.GD86374@elstar.local> Mail-Followup-To: netmod@ietf.org References: <20141105141134.GD24310@elstar.local> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <20141105141134.GD24310@elstar.local> User-Agent: Mutt/1.4.2.3i Archived-At: http://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/netmod/Qr6QDregp9UkmBOND3KldWamFdc Subject: Re: [netmod] VRFY :Y56: UTF8 non-characters X-BeenThere: netmod@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list Reply-To: Juergen Schoenwaelder List-Id: NETMOD WG list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 18 Nov 2014 08:06:43 -0000 On Wed, Nov 05, 2014 at 03:11:34PM +0100, Juergen Schoenwaelder wrote: > The 2014-10-15 virtual interim meeting proposal is to adopt Y56-01. > Please speak up by Wednesday 2014-11-12 if you disagree with this > proposal. > > For more details, see the issues list and the virtual interim meeting > minutes available here: > > http://svn.tools.ietf.org/svn/wg/netmod/yang-1.1/ This issue has been moved to the REVIEW state. /js -- Juergen Schoenwaelder Jacobs University Bremen gGmbH Phone: +49 421 200 3587 Campus Ring 1, 28759 Bremen, Germany Fax: +49 421 200 3103 From nobody Tue Nov 18 06:17:13 2014 Return-Path: X-Original-To: netmod@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: netmod@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6D05E1A03FF for ; Tue, 18 Nov 2014 06:17:12 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.494 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.494 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RP_MATCHES_RCVD=-0.594, SPF_HELO_PASS=-0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, WEIRD_PORT=0.001] autolearn=ham Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id ZFD4OZZleFot for ; Tue, 18 Nov 2014 06:17:10 -0800 (PST) Received: from lucidvision.com (lucidvision.com [72.71.250.34]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0DDA21A0861 for ; Tue, 18 Nov 2014 06:17:00 -0800 (PST) Received: from [192.168.1.138] (static-72-71-250-38.cncdnh.fast04.myfairpoint.net [72.71.250.38]) by lucidvision.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id C222B294830B; Tue, 18 Nov 2014 09:16:59 -0500 (EST) Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="Apple-Mail=_F8B2C021-DC12-4874-B37A-FD91BAA3C51E" Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 8.0 \(1990.1\)) From: "Thomas D. Nadeau" In-Reply-To: Date: Tue, 18 Nov 2014 09:17:00 -0500 Message-Id: <639E9D1D-0F2B-4EB3-B167-32FC37A88F65@lucidvision.com> References: To: Kent Watsen X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.1990.1) Archived-At: http://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/netmod/coE_21jIeRzIlq0SKf95loe5HCU Cc: NETMOD Working Group Subject: Re: [netmod] minutes for Nov 13 meeting X-BeenThere: netmod@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: NETMOD WG list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 18 Nov 2014 14:17:12 -0000 --Apple-Mail=_F8B2C021-DC12-4874-B37A-FD91BAA3C51E Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Thanks again for taking =E2=80=9Cnotes=E2=80=9D 8) > On Nov 14, 2014:6:11 PM, at 6:11 PM, Kent Watsen = wrote: >=20 >=20 > Etherpad minutes updated with notes from today's meeting >=20 > Cheers, > Kent >=20 > From: Kent Watsen > > Date: Thursday, November 13, 2014 at 7:20 PM > To: NETMOD Working Group > > Subject: [netmod] minutes for Nov 13 meeting >=20 >=20 > http://etherpad.tools.ietf.org:9000/p/notes-ietf-91-netmod = >=20 > Cheers, > Kent >=20 > _______________________________________________ > netmod mailing list > netmod@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/netmod --Apple-Mail=_F8B2C021-DC12-4874-B37A-FD91BAA3C51E Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/html; charset=utf-8 Thanks again for taking =E2=80=9Cnotes=E2=80=9D 8)

On Nov 14, 2014:6:11 PM, at 6:11 PM, Kent Watsen <kwatsen@juniper.net>= wrote:


Etherpad minutes updated with notes from today's = meeting

Cheers,
Kent

From: Kent Watsen = <kwatsen@juniper.net>
Date: Thursday, = November 13, 2014 at 7:20 PM
To: NETMOD Working = Group <netmod@ietf.org>
Subject: [netmod] = minutes for Nov 13 meeting


http://etherpad.tools.ietf.org:9000/p/notes-ietf-91-netmod<= /font>

Cheers,
Kent
_______________________________________________
netmod = mailing list
netmod@ietf.org
https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/netmod

= --Apple-Mail=_F8B2C021-DC12-4874-B37A-FD91BAA3C51E-- From nobody Tue Nov 18 07:46:06 2014 Return-Path: X-Original-To: netmod@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: netmod@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6B8C41A1A5A for ; Tue, 18 Nov 2014 07:46:05 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -0.001 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-0.001 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_20=-0.001] autolearn=ham Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id bGx-SzgzT8iq for ; Tue, 18 Nov 2014 07:46:02 -0800 (PST) Received: from trail.lhotka.name (trail.lhotka.name [77.48.224.143]) (using TLSv1.1 with cipher AECDH-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 5D1151A1A56 for ; Tue, 18 Nov 2014 07:46:02 -0800 (PST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by trail.lhotka.name (Postfix) with ESMTP id ED3A95405EB for ; Tue, 18 Nov 2014 16:45:59 +0100 (CET) Received: from trail.lhotka.name ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (trail.lhotka.name [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id FqcUj9d4t2rC for ; Tue, 18 Nov 2014 16:45:56 +0100 (CET) Received: from localhost (unknown [195.113.220.254]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by trail.lhotka.name (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id D5AB05405E1 for ; Tue, 18 Nov 2014 16:45:55 +0100 (CET) From: Ladislav Lhotka To: netmod@ietf.org User-Agent: Notmuch/0.18.1 (http://notmuchmail.org) Emacs/24.4.51.2 (x86_64-apple-darwin14.0.0) Date: Tue, 18 Nov 2014 16:45:54 +0100 Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Archived-At: http://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/netmod/MQp-H3jEZBsnMsstQlZaGICeldg Subject: [netmod] instence-identifier in JSON X-BeenThere: netmod@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: NETMOD WG list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 18 Nov 2014 15:46:05 -0000 Hi, I would like to verify consensus regarding my proposal to simplify the JSON encoding of instance-identifier values. The idea is to use the same rule for namespaces as in the data tree: indicate namespace at the beginning and then also whenever it changes. For example, instead of prepending each node name with the namespace ID (module name) /ietf-interfaces:interfaces/ietf-interfaces:interface[ ietf-interfaces:name='eth0']/ietf-ip:ipv4/ietf-ip:ip we would have /ietf-interfaces:interfaces/interface[name='eth0']/ietf-ip:ipv4/ip Kent pointed out after the session that the same rule is also used in RESTCONF Request URIs. If anybody is opposed to this change, please speak up. Thanks, Lada -- Ladislav Lhotka, CZ.NIC Labs PGP Key ID: E74E8C0C From nobody Tue Nov 18 07:54:41 2014 Return-Path: X-Original-To: netmod@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: netmod@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id AE2CD1A19E9 for ; Tue, 18 Nov 2014 07:54:38 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.979 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.979 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, FM_FORGED_GMAIL=0.622, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW=-0.7, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id hSH8l7pt-xps for ; Tue, 18 Nov 2014 07:54:36 -0800 (PST) Received: from mail-qc0-f178.google.com (mail-qc0-f178.google.com [209.85.216.178]) (using TLSv1 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-RC4-SHA (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 06DC01A1A56 for ; Tue, 18 Nov 2014 07:54:36 -0800 (PST) Received: by mail-qc0-f178.google.com with SMTP id b13so20479345qcw.9 for ; Tue, 18 Nov 2014 07:54:35 -0800 (PST) X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20130820; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:in-reply-to:references:date :message-id:subject:from:to:cc:content-type; bh=/U6qvFDwRNLK2E/z1sx++vqDBEqXhrkRd7NPoQxzLWE=; b=AA9a9av2EqWp/puoSWTR/78iqgRzEev6mgLK86m579coOfrHhg6+AfD4VtlgOEuuSz evVBuJd20aOwDJz8ptw8dCPdbYk/NyFO4k0UbJsKGRH+T1CTohZ4lBH729JGMmlXmbh4 3w4TeFOafwzYv4mpz2SE/2wUYpHifJCRBUHhl1eYkidxW5dBlhz5uytzwqjlxi7IxKOy mQLUPYiK5+BOMcwsOBK/1xBrtkoJ3ZUJpMaLPRQLDG7HQyUrETEtQszLDdib6/r6qwYL yisxguKmwZGJhSFiBIb7Gy+ufXqoG3mOh0694v/cDrk8z9eVIXPaX53KjUajrVT54WbV gZnQ== X-Gm-Message-State: ALoCoQnqccZLWgU5CUtO0qe26d9uk3m0zfa3avEJ6ybsHS4Oeq+AP6jcp8Rm/O9QlBEyRYq4x6y5 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Received: by 10.224.12.14 with SMTP id v14mr10697968qav.88.1416326075286; Tue, 18 Nov 2014 07:54:35 -0800 (PST) Received: by 10.140.37.52 with HTTP; Tue, 18 Nov 2014 07:54:35 -0800 (PST) In-Reply-To: References: Date: Tue, 18 Nov 2014 07:54:35 -0800 Message-ID: From: Andy Bierman To: Ladislav Lhotka Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Archived-At: http://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/netmod/szbWh0JxkvM6n2DN_mcvSkfZXPE Cc: "netmod@ietf.org" Subject: Re: [netmod] instence-identifier in JSON X-BeenThere: netmod@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: NETMOD WG list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 18 Nov 2014 15:54:38 -0000 Hi, I strongly oppose changing instance-identifier encoding. It is not compatible with YANG 1.0 and supporting a system with 2 versions of a fundamental type like instance-identifier is too complicated. I fail to see what problem this solves. It seems to just create confusion and unwarranted complexity. Andy On Tue, Nov 18, 2014 at 7:45 AM, Ladislav Lhotka wrote: > Hi, > > I would like to verify consensus regarding my proposal to simplify the > JSON encoding of instance-identifier values. The idea is to use the same > rule for namespaces as in the data tree: indicate namespace at the > beginning and then also whenever it changes. > > For example, instead of prepending each node name with the namespace ID > (module name) > > /ietf-interfaces:interfaces/ietf-interfaces:interface[ > ietf-interfaces:name='eth0']/ietf-ip:ipv4/ietf-ip:ip > > we would have > > /ietf-interfaces:interfaces/interface[name='eth0']/ietf-ip:ipv4/ip > > Kent pointed out after the session that the same rule is also used in > RESTCONF Request URIs. > > If anybody is opposed to this change, please speak up. > > Thanks, Lada > > -- > Ladislav Lhotka, CZ.NIC Labs > PGP Key ID: E74E8C0C > > _______________________________________________ > netmod mailing list > netmod@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/netmod From nobody Tue Nov 18 08:08:47 2014 Return-Path: X-Original-To: netmod@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: netmod@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 153851A1A5F for ; Tue, 18 Nov 2014 08:08:44 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.245 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.245 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, HELO_EQ_CZ=0.445, HOST_EQ_CZ=0.904, RP_MATCHES_RCVD=-0.594] autolearn=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id Gh8bHADU19sb for ; Tue, 18 Nov 2014 08:08:41 -0800 (PST) Received: from mail.nic.cz (mail.nic.cz [IPv6:2001:1488:800:400::400]) (using TLSv1 with cipher ADH-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 2FD381A19EA for ; Tue, 18 Nov 2014 08:08:24 -0800 (PST) Received: from [192.168.1.108] (unknown [195.113.220.254]) by mail.nic.cz (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 23A3C140106; Tue, 18 Nov 2014 17:08:22 +0100 (CET) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=simple/simple; d=nic.cz; s=default; t=1416326902; bh=Qh+611MZRXC3C8yg2soT/ME5x2I734d+J4Q/NasP4yI=; h=Content-Type:Mime-Version:Subject:From:In-Reply-To:Date:Cc: Content-Transfer-Encoding:Message-Id:References:To; b=khQF/EumANr+amekiqdNt8NmvSnNOZIBQKkfnoEiPTfvCQEMfkTvcVoRVLI5Uf7pd issJeCkjML+GwPCHXf4EXTIBFB5AJVDEXphyCKsLhXMf2Ofr1wk+E5yEroXWlNeEiq x6kSAeSgV6yifqTBBk+L58l4W5RbXRhB+sdDyQ5I= Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 7.3 \(1878.6\)) From: Ladislav Lhotka In-Reply-To: Date: Tue, 18 Nov 2014 17:08:21 +0100 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Message-Id: <75851E77-CAC7-4C2B-B87C-0D1B9B8C4FBE@nic.cz> References: To: Andy Bierman X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.1878.6) X-Virus-Scanned: clamav-milter 0.98.1 at mail X-Virus-Status: Clean Archived-At: http://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/netmod/WpHDvnJP1mQKhyJ6ohTCK7lJ9wA Cc: "netmod@ietf.org" Subject: Re: [netmod] instence-identifier in JSON X-BeenThere: netmod@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: NETMOD WG list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 18 Nov 2014 16:08:44 -0000 On 18 Nov 2014, at 16:54, Andy Bierman wrote: > Hi, >=20 > I strongly oppose changing instance-identifier encoding. > It is not compatible with YANG 1.0 and supporting a system > with 2 versions of a fundamental type like instance-identifier > is too complicated. Well, the current encoding of instance identifiers (namespace ID = everywhere) is not compatible with YANG 1.0 either, right? >=20 > I fail to see what problem this solves. It seems to just > create confusion and unwarranted complexity. The problems it solves are 1. consistency: rules for namespace encoding are identical in the data = tree and in instance-identifier. 2. simplification: instance-identifiers in the proposed from are = certainly more readable for humans, and only slightly more difficult to = parse for machines. Lada >=20 >=20 >=20 > Andy >=20 >=20 > On Tue, Nov 18, 2014 at 7:45 AM, Ladislav Lhotka = wrote: >> Hi, >>=20 >> I would like to verify consensus regarding my proposal to simplify = the >> JSON encoding of instance-identifier values. The idea is to use the = same >> rule for namespaces as in the data tree: indicate namespace at the >> beginning and then also whenever it changes. >>=20 >> For example, instead of prepending each node name with the namespace = ID >> (module name) >>=20 >> /ietf-interfaces:interfaces/ietf-interfaces:interface[ >> ietf-interfaces:name=3D'eth0']/ietf-ip:ipv4/ietf-ip:ip >>=20 >> we would have >>=20 >> /ietf-interfaces:interfaces/interface[name=3D'eth0']/ietf-ip:ipv4/ip >>=20 >> Kent pointed out after the session that the same rule is also used in >> RESTCONF Request URIs. >>=20 >> If anybody is opposed to this change, please speak up. >>=20 >> Thanks, Lada >>=20 >> -- >> Ladislav Lhotka, CZ.NIC Labs >> PGP Key ID: E74E8C0C >>=20 >> _______________________________________________ >> netmod mailing list >> netmod@ietf.org >> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/netmod -- Ladislav Lhotka, CZ.NIC Labs PGP Key ID: E74E8C0C From nobody Tue Nov 18 08:10:32 2014 Return-Path: X-Original-To: netmod@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: netmod@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id BB2681A19EA for ; Tue, 18 Nov 2014 08:10:28 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -4.794 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-4.794 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-2.3, RP_MATCHES_RCVD=-0.594, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 2hRnIK0o7qrJ for ; Tue, 18 Nov 2014 08:10:25 -0800 (PST) Received: from lhrrgout.huawei.com (lhrrgout.huawei.com [194.213.3.17]) (using TLSv1 with cipher RC4-SHA (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id D7ED61A1A1E for ; Tue, 18 Nov 2014 08:10:24 -0800 (PST) Received: from 172.18.7.190 (EHLO lhreml403-hub.china.huawei.com) ([172.18.7.190]) by lhrrg01-dlp.huawei.com (MOS 4.3.7-GA FastPath queued) with ESMTP id BOY03607; Tue, 18 Nov 2014 16:10:22 +0000 (GMT) Received: from NKGEML401-HUB.china.huawei.com (10.98.56.32) by lhreml403-hub.china.huawei.com (10.201.5.217) with Microsoft SMTP Server (TLS) id 14.3.158.1; Tue, 18 Nov 2014 16:10:21 +0000 Received: from NKGEML507-MBS.china.huawei.com ([169.254.6.104]) by nkgeml401-hub.china.huawei.com ([10.98.56.32]) with mapi id 14.03.0158.001; Wed, 19 Nov 2014 00:10:08 +0800 From: Yangang To: "dblair@cisco.com" , "netmod@ietf.org" Thread-Topic: [NETMOD]Two issues about ACL YANG model. Thread-Index: AQHQA0b0Pd/iFYjIyUmue8z25lht+w== Date: Tue, 18 Nov 2014 16:10:07 +0000 Message-ID: Accept-Language: zh-CN, en-US Content-Language: zh-CN X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-originating-ip: [10.45.5.46] Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="_000_D496C972D1A13540A730720631EC73413A420828nkgeml507mbschi_" MIME-Version: 1.0 X-CFilter-Loop: Reflected Archived-At: http://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/netmod/NPCwiAoPHT8bXhGhSzjofFbV5x0 Cc: "Zhengfeng \(Habby\)" Subject: [netmod] [NETMOD]Two issues about ACL YANG model. X-BeenThere: netmod@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: NETMOD WG list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 18 Nov 2014 16:10:29 -0000 --_000_D496C972D1A13540A730720631EC73413A420828nkgeml507mbschi_ Content-Type: text/plain; charset="gb2312" Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 SGksIEFsbDoNCg0KDQoNCiAgIEluIDkxdGggSUVURiBtZWV0aW5nLCBEYW5hIGFuZCBtZSBkaXNj dXNzIHRoZSBBQ0wgWUFORyBtb2RlbC4gQW5kIHNvbWUgaXNzdWVzIG5lZWQgdG8gYmUgZGlzY3Vz c2VkIGluIHRoZSBtYWlsaXN0Lg0KDQoNCg0KICAgMS4gQWJvdXQgaG93IHRvIHN1cHBvcnQgdGhl ICJBTkQiIHJlbGF0aW9uc2hpcC4NCg0KDQoNCiAgICAgICBTb21lIHJlcXVpcmVtZW50IGNvbWUg ZnJvbSB0aGUgcHJvdmlkZXI6IFRoZXkgd2FudCB0byBtYXRjaCB0aGUgSVAgYWRkcmVzcyBhbmQg TUFDIGFkZHJlc3MgdG9nZXRoZXIuIFJpZ2h0IG5vdywgd2UgZ290IHR3byBvcHRpb25hbCBzb2x1 dGlvbjoNCg0KDQoNCiAgICAgICBhLiBEZWZpbmUgYSAicnVsZSByZWxhdGlvbiB0eXBlIiBpbiAi YWNjZXNzLWxpc3QtZW50cnkiLCB0aGVuIHRoZSByZWxhdGlvaW5zaGlwIGJldHdlZW4gYWxsIG1h dGNoIHJ1bGVzIHdpbGwgYmUgIkFORCIgb3IgIk9SIi4NCg0KDQoNCiAgICAgICBiLiBJbiBvbmUg bWF0Y2ggZW50cnksIG9uZSBhZGRpdGlvbmFsIGxpc3QgY2FuIGJlIGRlZmluZWQuIFRoZSBlbGVt ZW50IG9mIHRoaXMgbGlzdCBpcyAiQU5EIiByZWxhdGlvbnNoaXAsIGFuZCB0aGUgIk9SIiB3aWxs IGJlIGtlcHQgZm9yIHRoZSBtYXRjaCBydWxlcy4NCg0KDQoNCiAgIDIuIEFib3V0IGhvdyB0byBk ZWZpbmUgdGhlICJub3QgZXF1YWwnIGluIHRoZSBwYWNrZXQgZmlsdGVyOg0KDQoNCg0KICAgICAg IEF0IGJlZ2luaW5nLCBJIGp1c3Qgd2FudCB0byBhZGQgb25lIHR5cGUgZGVpbmF0aW9uLCBsaWtl IHRoaXMgd2F5Og0KDQoNCiAgICAgICB0eXBlZGVmIHJ1bGUtbWF0Y2gtdHlwZSB7DQogICAgICAg ICB0eXBlIGVudW1lcmF0aW9uIHsNCiAgICAgICAgICAgIGVudW0gZ3Q7DQogICAgICAgICAgICBl bnVtIHN0Ow0KICAgICAgICAgICAgZW51bSBlcTsNCiAgICAgICAgICAgIGVudW0gbmVxOw0KICAg ICAgICAgICAgZW51bSByYW5nZTsNCiAgICAgICAgIH0NCiAgICAgICB9DQoNCg0KDQogICAgICAg QWZ0ZXIgd2UgZGlzY3VzcyBpdCwgdGhlICJndCIgYW5kICJzdCIgY2FuIGJlIGNvdmVyZWQgYnkg cmFuZ2UsIGFuZCBvbmx5IHRoZSAibmVxIiBuZWVkIGJlIGRlZmluZWQsIGJ1dCB0aGUgcHJvYmxl bSBpczogaXQganVzdCBhZGQgbmV3IHBhcmFtZXRlciB0byByZXByZXNlbnQgdGhlICJuZXEiIG9y IHRoZSBZQU5HIGxhbmd1YWdlIHNob3VsZCBiZSBleHBhbmRlZD8NCg0KDQoNClRoYW5rcy4NCg0K WWFuZ2FuZy4NCg0KDQo= --_000_D496C972D1A13540A730720631EC73413A420828nkgeml507mbschi_ Content-Type: text/html; charset="gb2312" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

Hi, All:

 

   In 91th IETF meeting,= Dana and me discuss the ACL YANG model. And some issues need to be discuss= ed in the mailist.

 

   1. About how to = support the "AND" relationship.

 

     &nbs= p; Some requirement come from the provider: They want to match the IP addre= ss and MAC address together. Right now, we got two optional solution:

 

     &nbs= p; a. Define a "rule relation type" in "acces= s-list-entry", then the relatioinship between all match rules will be &quo= t;AND" or "OR".

 

     &nbs= p; b. In one match entry, one additional list can be defined= . The element of this list is "AND" relationship, and the "O= R" will be kept for the match rules.

 

   2. About how to = define the "not equal' in the packet filter:

 

     &nbs= p; At begining, I just want to add one type deination, like this way:

 

       typedef rule-ma= tch-type {

         type enumeration {

          &= nbsp; enum gt;

          &= nbsp; enum st;

          &= nbsp; enum eq;

            enum neq;

            enum range;

         }

       }

 

     &nbs= p; After we discuss it, the "gt" and "st" can be covere= d by range, and only the "neq" need be defined, but the prob= lem is: it just add new parameter to represent the "neq" or the YANG language should be expanded?

 

Thanks.

Yangang.

 

--_000_D496C972D1A13540A730720631EC73413A420828nkgeml507mbschi_-- From nobody Tue Nov 18 08:15:31 2014 Return-Path: X-Original-To: netmod@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: netmod@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 45C511A1A87 for ; Tue, 18 Nov 2014 08:15:29 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.9 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.9 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9] autolearn=ham Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id nb5__4SmvYCq for ; Tue, 18 Nov 2014 08:15:25 -0800 (PST) Received: from trail.lhotka.name (trail.lhotka.name [77.48.224.143]) (using TLSv1.1 with cipher AECDH-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id A64A51A1A36 for ; Tue, 18 Nov 2014 08:15:24 -0800 (PST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by trail.lhotka.name (Postfix) with ESMTP id DF3CB5405EB for ; Tue, 18 Nov 2014 17:15:22 +0100 (CET) Received: from trail.lhotka.name ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (trail.lhotka.name [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id MqZ-aEbxtMth for ; Tue, 18 Nov 2014 17:15:16 +0100 (CET) Received: from localhost (unknown [195.113.220.254]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by trail.lhotka.name (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 3A3595405E1 for ; Tue, 18 Nov 2014 17:15:16 +0100 (CET) From: Ladislav Lhotka To: netmod@ietf.org User-Agent: Notmuch/0.18.1 (http://notmuchmail.org) Emacs/24.4.51.2 (x86_64-apple-darwin14.0.0) Date: Tue, 18 Nov 2014 17:15:15 +0100 Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Archived-At: http://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/netmod/Txj8VcMZRZi4UT0HyT38U4brzrw Subject: [netmod] 64-bit numbers in JSON encoding X-BeenThere: netmod@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: NETMOD WG list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 18 Nov 2014 16:15:29 -0000 Hi, one of the things that IMO requires further discussion is the way how 64-bit numbers (uint64, int64, decimal64) are encoded in JSON. Following the recommendation of I-JSON, the encoding was changed from JSON number to string. However, as Carsten Bormann explained during the session in Honolulu, the inability to deal with large numbers is an issue mainly for JavaScript that uses IEEE double float as the only numeric type. Juergen also mentioned via jabber that he knew about a JSON parser written for C that had the same problem. Anyway, I think it's worthwhile to consider pros and cons of introducing an ugly CLR for 64-bit numbers and imposing more work on implementations that could normally expect obtaining such numbers straight from a sound JSON parser. Lada -- Ladislav Lhotka, CZ.NIC Labs PGP Key ID: E74E8C0C From nobody Tue Nov 18 08:41:03 2014 Return-Path: X-Original-To: netmod@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: netmod@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 340E51A1A4D for ; Tue, 18 Nov 2014 08:41:02 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.979 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.979 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, FM_FORGED_GMAIL=0.622, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW=-0.7, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id VIGik1yagoa4 for ; Tue, 18 Nov 2014 08:40:55 -0800 (PST) Received: from mail-qc0-f170.google.com (mail-qc0-f170.google.com [209.85.216.170]) (using TLSv1 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-RC4-SHA (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id AF0401A1A9B for ; Tue, 18 Nov 2014 08:40:50 -0800 (PST) Received: by mail-qc0-f170.google.com with SMTP id x3so3897688qcv.29 for ; Tue, 18 Nov 2014 08:40:49 -0800 (PST) X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20130820; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:in-reply-to:references:date :message-id:subject:from:to:cc:content-type; bh=I4g5hZDXdtea+0szf6O4b8RRLApQmB8uc700pAPEQro=; b=lTiTmxjgjysVSL3sOdtmB21slTB22Cnlr+1ku92NwqOW8uuuq1/c6y2e9tcvn1yNpy ne5+GS+raKm4MS6kNxAn44Cja5qTdzPaWa7jsEJfhlz2wtfEvx3Tb+PslGuAWDNWtA+0 QA8yU4yt6ZeOi6craK+f+OhP6GpjTqtDZT8FFAyL824gkGMGSmxWK9bQHzj+TTs67FbH NDyocpYsmGA5jOrs7Lv7EjijW0rma4j66x9JtHf/sPTO6fqF42cKGi9XnNyF7pbFl71i 8daZJKUXU5Wzu6KLDFxgWHI2iNJpjHEuTGWuiAsg9A7KC34yK+dU/ubpIiSDYYzKLY8v A6kw== X-Gm-Message-State: ALoCoQnIkr9+px6eDgixhHzxGMlAc+IC+uQSyOU5CfmymMsGD6azwTKHTbqm9Xf/bxGYGRXO3yj4 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Received: by 10.224.12.14 with SMTP id v14mr10989232qav.88.1416328849394; Tue, 18 Nov 2014 08:40:49 -0800 (PST) Received: by 10.140.37.52 with HTTP; Tue, 18 Nov 2014 08:40:49 -0800 (PST) In-Reply-To: <75851E77-CAC7-4C2B-B87C-0D1B9B8C4FBE@nic.cz> References: <75851E77-CAC7-4C2B-B87C-0D1B9B8C4FBE@nic.cz> Date: Tue, 18 Nov 2014 08:40:49 -0800 Message-ID: From: Andy Bierman To: Ladislav Lhotka Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Archived-At: http://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/netmod/xFdFksGz-Az5JntwbwmUilHerUc Cc: "netmod@ietf.org" Subject: Re: [netmod] instence-identifier in JSON X-BeenThere: netmod@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: NETMOD WG list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 18 Nov 2014 16:41:02 -0000 On Tue, Nov 18, 2014 at 8:08 AM, Ladislav Lhotka wrote: > > On 18 Nov 2014, at 16:54, Andy Bierman wrote: > >> Hi, >> >> I strongly oppose changing instance-identifier encoding. >> It is not compatible with YANG 1.0 and supporting a system >> with 2 versions of a fundamental type like instance-identifier >> is too complicated. > > Well, the current encoding of instance identifiers (namespace ID everywhere) is not compatible with YANG 1.0 either, right? > It is encoded in XML with QNames. They use prefixes. It works just fine and it is valid and correct XPath for the specified instance. >> >> I fail to see what problem this solves. It seems to just >> create confusion and unwarranted complexity. > > The problems it solves are > > 1. consistency: rules for namespace encoding are identical in the data tree and in instance-identifier. It creates inconsistency because YANG 1.0 works differently. > > 2. simplification: instance-identifiers in the proposed from are certainly more readable for humans, and only slightly more difficult to parse for machines. > It creates complexity because 2 forms of instance identifiers would be in use. Your proposal is not the correct XPath to specify one instance. It is a YANG-only 1-off creation that no tools support right now. > Lada > >> >> Andy >> >> Andy >> >> >> On Tue, Nov 18, 2014 at 7:45 AM, Ladislav Lhotka wrote: >>> Hi, >>> >>> I would like to verify consensus regarding my proposal to simplify the >>> JSON encoding of instance-identifier values. The idea is to use the same >>> rule for namespaces as in the data tree: indicate namespace at the >>> beginning and then also whenever it changes. >>> >>> For example, instead of prepending each node name with the namespace ID >>> (module name) >>> >>> /ietf-interfaces:interfaces/ietf-interfaces:interface[ >>> ietf-interfaces:name='eth0']/ietf-ip:ipv4/ietf-ip:ip >>> >>> we would have >>> >>> /ietf-interfaces:interfaces/interface[name='eth0']/ietf-ip:ipv4/ip >>> >>> Kent pointed out after the session that the same rule is also used in >>> RESTCONF Request URIs. >>> >>> If anybody is opposed to this change, please speak up. >>> >>> Thanks, Lada >>> >>> -- >>> Ladislav Lhotka, CZ.NIC Labs >>> PGP Key ID: E74E8C0C >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> netmod mailing list >>> netmod@ietf.org >>> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/netmod > > -- > Ladislav Lhotka, CZ.NIC Labs > PGP Key ID: E74E8C0C > > > > From nobody Tue Nov 18 08:56:42 2014 Return-Path: X-Original-To: netmod@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: netmod@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5A2E21A1ABB for ; Tue, 18 Nov 2014 08:56:41 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -0.689 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-0.689 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, HELO_EQ_SK=1.35, HOST_EQ_SK=0.555, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, RP_MATCHES_RCVD=-0.594] autolearn=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id ytn4dQ_bnOzi for ; Tue, 18 Nov 2014 08:56:38 -0800 (PST) Received: from mail.hq.sk (hq.sk [81.89.59.181]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 627121A1A95 for ; Tue, 18 Nov 2014 08:56:38 -0800 (PST) Received: from [172.16.4.81] (fw.pantheon.sk [81.89.59.166]) by mail.hq.sk (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id E1113243869; Tue, 18 Nov 2014 17:56:36 +0100 (CET) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/simple; d=hq.sk; s=mail; t=1416329796; bh=EhVau8HBZPZ4om7k6EEa492kp1WGqMfc0pqxmmr/y0A=; h=Date:From:To:Subject:References:In-Reply-To; b=Wfa/Ift3PAx3dFDQCWX6dbuMJJMp7PixDWQL+fnJIveXDyFaPLnz4HfBlGtn79XXD qfDTcvRkU+2tBw6ceW0GRk/gP8do3HLuPKwCixjgFvfTDwDP6WcQH9PJUkj0wI82o8 D0MHuDX3X82zBklKmchzn9bAoO42RI6crnMgx1lg= Message-ID: <546B7A41.7050602@hq.sk> Date: Tue, 18 Nov 2014 17:56:33 +0100 From: Robert Varga User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; Linux x86_64; rv:31.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/31.2.0 MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Ladislav Lhotka , netmod@ietf.org References: In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=windows-1252; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Archived-At: http://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/netmod/WIk5jJV_jPf0fD5cSu6X0NWge74 Subject: Re: [netmod] instence-identifier in JSON X-BeenThere: netmod@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: NETMOD WG list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 18 Nov 2014 16:56:41 -0000 +1. This would be a huge boon to clarity and addresses one major pain point OpenDaylight users have been complaining about. Regarding not being compatible with XML encoding of QNames -- that is a fair observation, but given that JSON is an encoding of its own it should be possible to define instance identifier encoding which makes sense in JSON, without regard what other encodings do. Thanks, Robert On 11/18/2014 04:45 PM, Ladislav Lhotka wrote: > Hi, > > I would like to verify consensus regarding my proposal to simplify the > JSON encoding of instance-identifier values. The idea is to use the same > rule for namespaces as in the data tree: indicate namespace at the > beginning and then also whenever it changes. > > For example, instead of prepending each node name with the namespace ID > (module name) > > /ietf-interfaces:interfaces/ietf-interfaces:interface[ > ietf-interfaces:name='eth0']/ietf-ip:ipv4/ietf-ip:ip > > we would have > > /ietf-interfaces:interfaces/interface[name='eth0']/ietf-ip:ipv4/ip > > Kent pointed out after the session that the same rule is also used in > RESTCONF Request URIs. > > If anybody is opposed to this change, please speak up. > > Thanks, Lada > From nobody Tue Nov 18 09:06:16 2014 Return-Path: X-Original-To: netmod@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: netmod@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id C16001A1AB2 for ; Tue, 18 Nov 2014 09:06:11 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -0.689 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-0.689 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, HELO_EQ_SK=1.35, HOST_EQ_SK=0.555, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, RP_MATCHES_RCVD=-0.594] autolearn=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id Ts4HJxy96o_i for ; Tue, 18 Nov 2014 09:06:07 -0800 (PST) Received: from mail.hq.sk (hq.sk [81.89.59.181]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id E19D01A1B08 for ; Tue, 18 Nov 2014 09:05:51 -0800 (PST) Received: from [172.16.4.81] (fw.pantheon.sk [81.89.59.166]) by mail.hq.sk (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 0941B243869 for ; Tue, 18 Nov 2014 18:05:51 +0100 (CET) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/simple; d=hq.sk; s=mail; t=1416330351; bh=CsXr2HQ1m2HteIrKx8odCvYSm9m+TT8gjhA1HQODjTc=; h=Date:From:To:Subject:References:In-Reply-To; b=bUhfWlrJrdXzn+T2Ch+SSFZGhHRDVeTdYMPA5WWJ3n5mVP8oWkrBhqRVLUtesvswf bc1sj+erMsr37le5gAaU5OP2IDkJhhfICdwuvaO0lL4U/aZdMbZTaEuTGyNmMJ0fQ5 tEbSkM3lV8j3fWKbzbyr1RSkSyTeOQCKpF4fi+w0= Message-ID: <546B7C6B.3040105@hq.sk> Date: Tue, 18 Nov 2014 18:05:47 +0100 From: Robert Varga User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; Linux x86_64; rv:31.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/31.2.0 MIME-Version: 1.0 To: netmod@ietf.org References: In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=windows-1252; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Archived-At: http://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/netmod/1PCJ0yCFPAneiqDIEc8Ydqc7sBE Subject: Re: [netmod] 64-bit numbers in JSON encoding X-BeenThere: netmod@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: NETMOD WG list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 18 Nov 2014 17:06:12 -0000 Hello, On 11/18/2014 05:15 PM, Ladislav Lhotka wrote: > Anyway, I think it's worthwhile to consider pros and cons of introducing > an ugly CLR for 64-bit numbers and imposing more work on implementations > that could normally expect obtaining such numbers straight from a sound > JSON parser. I would like to express a strong preference for not performing special-casing on 64bit type encoding. Thanks, Robert From nobody Tue Nov 18 09:23:27 2014 Return-Path: X-Original-To: netmod@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: netmod@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6EE681A1B9B for ; Tue, 18 Nov 2014 09:23:23 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.979 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.979 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, FM_FORGED_GMAIL=0.622, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW=-0.7, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=unavailable Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id SGHwHqhUWau7 for ; Tue, 18 Nov 2014 09:23:21 -0800 (PST) Received: from mail-qc0-f179.google.com (mail-qc0-f179.google.com [209.85.216.179]) (using TLSv1 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-RC4-SHA (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 1DB2C1A1B5B for ; Tue, 18 Nov 2014 09:23:17 -0800 (PST) Received: by mail-qc0-f179.google.com with SMTP id c9so7542159qcz.38 for ; Tue, 18 Nov 2014 09:23:16 -0800 (PST) X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20130820; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:date:message-id:subject:from:to :content-type; bh=aF2yLihrF01h4SLm/jjYZeHG9HI+pHSNREo195KMAD0=; b=e7w4zrt72eHNBj07aNaftexfav7GwlVw85PZzoAELL3DgKMGUobfOZXCg4zxfl1ISK b6EhBjBHRrgl29BxlM9eXkTocTuR9LOQjuRpQ373/w+CjZZa0c0H0XuS8dH0N8QsK1lc 9+GzcBwos/L+OcdOUDdThfTUTlGjVhi6RT+IyTNThgJsdlfnUtY3QyHe0rd4n+cHvePf sn9Mxa5GWRfg5NxSHP0I8wXkoZYbOhBv44ljJIv9NqjqYfe5d4RkJmurrcaFF4lqtseN yikK9wowFTDAT8BGnLe7qbmDKnK2Oy3qUIlIqXRb2WlLK8BxkmWERQiJQd+J7J7EgIAY kh/A== X-Gm-Message-State: ALoCoQlsg7bcY2d+J907SVBbjWe2qddGYNZh6R48TEnKPmDtWZobz7O0TZp5DUW8oEHHQAzAZocH MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Received: by 10.229.212.66 with SMTP id gr2mr12328579qcb.8.1416331396322; Tue, 18 Nov 2014 09:23:16 -0800 (PST) Received: by 10.140.37.52 with HTTP; Tue, 18 Nov 2014 09:23:16 -0800 (PST) Date: Tue, 18 Nov 2014 09:23:16 -0800 Message-ID: From: Andy Bierman To: Netconf , "netmod@ietf.org" Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Archived-At: http://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/netmod/23ymJzrp6qfSfl4AVU6h-kM76kY Subject: [netmod] RESTCONF #13 and Y45: ietf-yang-library (Consensus Call) X-BeenThere: netmod@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: NETMOD WG list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 18 Nov 2014 17:23:23 -0000 Hi, I think the NETMOD and NETCONF WGs agreed in Honolulu that the ietf-yang-library should be moved to the YANG Conformance draft, which will be changed to a NETMOD WG draft. RESTCONF #13 https://github.com/netconf-wg/restconf/issues/13 YANG1.1 #Y45: better conformance mechanism http://svn.tools.ietf.org/svn/wg/netmod/yang-1.1/issues.html#sec-45 YANG Conformance draft http://www.ietf.org/id/draft-bierman-netmod-yang-conformance-04.txt Initial changes to YC draft: - remove sec. 5: submodule capability - remove get-allowed-leafrefs RPC This email is to confirm the consensus from the IETF meeting. Andy From nobody Tue Nov 18 09:42:52 2014 Return-Path: X-Original-To: netmod@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: netmod@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7EAAE1A1B7F for ; Tue, 18 Nov 2014 09:42:48 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.979 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.979 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, FM_FORGED_GMAIL=0.622, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW=-0.7, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id EGFutc0kZBzO for ; Tue, 18 Nov 2014 09:42:41 -0800 (PST) Received: from mail-qc0-f179.google.com (mail-qc0-f179.google.com [209.85.216.179]) (using TLSv1 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-RC4-SHA (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id E5A071A1B5F for ; Tue, 18 Nov 2014 09:42:40 -0800 (PST) Received: by mail-qc0-f179.google.com with SMTP id c9so7851354qcz.10 for ; Tue, 18 Nov 2014 09:42:39 -0800 (PST) X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20130820; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:in-reply-to:references:date :message-id:subject:from:to:cc:content-type; bh=Pq8loRr5jsNSsEjPV71wIl3ayBFC/3d7FNiRBKu2eDI=; b=lP4dHIyMfzonur8zrlBI6YoE52bvkQVdChrpSsxxjpYKAH1zQQKhzUDJbl7bd3CmJ4 7Ag+LeD+GXobT+MUfxTWRx5nhnbwcPh+wiJAmsvRfO5xx9TN4Ej3jHQa8DWBOT6A2MID 7gBaAeI8SoE0uLrzkURhEZ/ci0cepMWfbQizKLfM5+YYj0wk1G3QnboIRMvMANB05Opv G/tK+pxsoPZBHYud0n85n/MNx7CyCG0MaZ8nDkiychiHIGsfDGtakEJFN3TLf3jTtfv5 Mh1F5fEVa/kCbys62dk0k2LtUQqwbh4RmXkyatzlF/GlgwZfSIpetiUsP15bVEUATnTA 7hng== X-Gm-Message-State: ALoCoQkHeEigAr0NvVyM/4RP9DZcS7yJ0ZRep3V0UTGlbmkVLQwHejIEmJz4mmUal4qodQwCPPVt MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Received: by 10.229.105.196 with SMTP id u4mr44939005qco.27.1416332558174; Tue, 18 Nov 2014 09:42:38 -0800 (PST) Received: by 10.140.37.52 with HTTP; Tue, 18 Nov 2014 09:42:38 -0800 (PST) In-Reply-To: <546B7A41.7050602@hq.sk> References: <546B7A41.7050602@hq.sk> Date: Tue, 18 Nov 2014 09:42:38 -0800 Message-ID: From: Andy Bierman To: Robert Varga Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Archived-At: http://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/netmod/Z-z2aexvpxuEcMJiE7fok2LH9aM Cc: "netmod@ietf.org" Subject: Re: [netmod] instence-identifier in JSON X-BeenThere: netmod@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: NETMOD WG list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 18 Nov 2014 17:42:48 -0000 Hi, I was confused because I missed the Friday meeting. This proposal is not to change the XML encoding in YANG 1.1, just to add a JSON encoding of i-i. So I do not object. I prefer the data-resource-identifier encoding in RESTCONF, since it could be cut-and-pasted as a target resource URI. OLD: >> /ietf-interfaces:interfaces/interface[name='eth0']/ietf-ip:ipv4/ip NEW: >> /ietf-interfaces:interfaces/interface=eth0/ietf-ip:ipv4/ip (encoding used in error-urlpath) Andy On Tue, Nov 18, 2014 at 8:56 AM, Robert Varga wrote: > +1. This would be a huge boon to clarity and addresses one major pain point > OpenDaylight users have been complaining about. > > Regarding not being compatible with XML encoding of QNames -- that is a fair > observation, but given that JSON is an encoding of its own it should be > possible to define instance identifier encoding which makes sense in JSON, > without regard what other encodings do. > > Thanks, > Robert > > On 11/18/2014 04:45 PM, Ladislav Lhotka wrote: >> >> Hi, >> >> I would like to verify consensus regarding my proposal to simplify the >> JSON encoding of instance-identifier values. The idea is to use the same >> rule for namespaces as in the data tree: indicate namespace at the >> beginning and then also whenever it changes. >> >> For example, instead of prepending each node name with the namespace ID >> (module name) >> >> /ietf-interfaces:interfaces/ietf-interfaces:interface[ >> ietf-interfaces:name='eth0']/ietf-ip:ipv4/ietf-ip:ip >> >> we would have >> >> /ietf-interfaces:interfaces/interface[name='eth0']/ietf-ip:ipv4/ip >> >> Kent pointed out after the session that the same rule is also used in >> RESTCONF Request URIs. >> >> If anybody is opposed to this change, please speak up. >> >> Thanks, Lada >> > > _______________________________________________ > netmod mailing list > netmod@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/netmod From nobody Tue Nov 18 10:10:29 2014 Return-Path: X-Original-To: netmod@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: netmod@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 691631A0006 for ; Tue, 18 Nov 2014 10:10:27 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.902 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.902 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, SPF_HELO_PASS=-0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id Kj6JG69Z3esp for ; Tue, 18 Nov 2014 10:10:21 -0800 (PST) Received: from na01-bn1-obe.outbound.protection.outlook.com (mail-bn1on0700.outbound.protection.outlook.com [IPv6:2a01:111:f400:fc10::700]) (using TLSv1 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 564BA1A1A56 for ; Tue, 18 Nov 2014 10:10:21 -0800 (PST) Received: from CO1PR05MB458.namprd05.prod.outlook.com (10.141.72.140) by CO1PR05MB457.namprd05.prod.outlook.com (10.141.72.141) with Microsoft SMTP Server (TLS) id 15.1.16.15; Tue, 18 Nov 2014 18:09:57 +0000 Received: from CO1PR05MB458.namprd05.prod.outlook.com ([169.254.10.239]) by CO1PR05MB458.namprd05.prod.outlook.com ([169.254.10.239]) with mapi id 15.01.0016.006; Tue, 18 Nov 2014 18:09:57 +0000 From: Kent Watsen To: Ladislav Lhotka , "netmod@ietf.org" Thread-Topic: [netmod] 64-bit numbers in JSON encoding Thread-Index: AQHQA0rla2d3A/DWKkWLwGrdYPTNB5xmW0yA Date: Tue, 18 Nov 2014 18:09:57 +0000 Message-ID: References: In-Reply-To: Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: user-agent: Microsoft-MacOutlook/14.4.4.140807 x-originating-ip: [66.129.239.12] x-microsoft-antispam: BCL:0;PCL:0;RULEID:;SRVR:CO1PR05MB457; x-exchange-antispam-report-test: UriScan:; x-exchange-antispam-report-cfa-test: BCL:0;PCL:0;RULEID:;SRVR:CO1PR05MB457; x-forefront-prvs: 039975700A x-forefront-antispam-report: SFV:NSPM; SFS:(10019020)(6009001)(164054003)(199003)(52314003)(24454002)(479174003)(51704005)(377454003)(189002)(77096003)(46102003)(66066001)(95666004)(106356001)(107046002)(62966003)(122556002)(106116001)(99396003)(40100003)(77156002)(107886001)(120916001)(97736003)(20776003)(4396001)(99286002)(36756003)(2501002)(105586002)(64706001)(86362001)(92566001)(87936001)(2656002)(92726001)(21056001)(83506001)(54356999)(50986999)(101416001)(76176999)(19580405001)(19580395003)(31966008); DIR:OUT; SFP:1102; SCL:1; SRVR:CO1PR05MB457; H:CO1PR05MB458.namprd05.prod.outlook.com; FPR:; MLV:sfv; PTR:InfoNoRecords; A:1; MX:1; LANG:en; Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-ID: <714DE4E2EBC6AE4CB427B06D0E6354A2@namprd05.prod.outlook.com> Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable MIME-Version: 1.0 X-OriginatorOrg: juniper.net Archived-At: http://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/netmod/bnCXxjauZZYnUl55O1s8QSyf4ww Subject: Re: [netmod] 64-bit numbers in JSON encoding X-BeenThere: netmod@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: NETMOD WG list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 18 Nov 2014 18:10:27 -0000 On 11/18/14, 11:15 AM, "Ladislav Lhotka" wrote: >Hi, > >one of the things that IMO requires further discussion is the way how >64-bit numbers (uint64, int64, decimal64) are encoded in JSON. Following >the recommendation of I-JSON, the encoding was changed from JSON number >to string. > >However, as Carsten Bormann explained during the session in Honolulu, >the inability to deal with large numbers is an issue mainly for >JavaScript that uses IEEE double float as the only numeric type. Juergen >also mentioned via jabber that he knew about a JSON parser written for C >that had the same problem. > >Anyway, I think it's worthwhile to consider pros and cons of introducing >an ugly CLR for 64-bit numbers and imposing more work on implementations >that could normally expect obtaining such numbers straight from a sound >JSON parser. Isn't JavaScript support a primary concern? While apps using RESTCONF would likely be programmed in other languages, let's not forget about web-based interfaces...or what the "JS" in JSON stands for. Thanks, Kent From nobody Tue Nov 18 11:09:37 2014 Return-Path: X-Original-To: netmod@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: netmod@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id D611F1A6F8C for ; Tue, 18 Nov 2014 11:06:01 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -7.595 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-7.595 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_40=-0.001, GB_I_INVITATION=-2, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_HI=-5, RP_MATCHES_RCVD=-0.594, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id CwYmOlfQ3t0s for ; Tue, 18 Nov 2014 11:05:59 -0800 (PST) Received: from sjmda16.webex.com (sjmda16.webex.com [64.68.124.170]) (using TLSv1 with cipher DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 20F8E1A6F8E for ; Tue, 18 Nov 2014 11:05:57 -0800 (PST) Received: from jva2tc116.webex.com (sjc02-wxp00-lbace03-core-vl120-np10b-5.webex.com [64.68.121.240]) by sjmda16.webex.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id CA9D9A0316 for ; Tue, 18 Nov 2014 19:05:56 +0000 (GMT) Received: from jva2tc116.webex.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by jva2tc116.webex.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7CB971BF23D for ; Tue, 18 Nov 2014 19:05:56 +0000 (GMT) Date: Tue, 18 Nov 2014 19:05:56 +0000 (GMT) From: NEDMOD Working Group To: netmod@ietf.org Message-ID: <797072677.14266.1416337556509.JavaMail.nobody@jva2tc116.webex.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/Mixed; boundary="----=_Part_14264_1047505073.1416337556508" X-Priority: 3 Importance: normal Archived-At: http://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/netmod/dmWYbsbo-gr-yRAT6iN7bWMMCAI X-Mailman-Approved-At: Tue, 18 Nov 2014 11:09:08 -0800 Subject: [netmod] WebEx meeting invitation: NETMOD YANG 1.1 X-BeenThere: netmod@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list Reply-To: 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tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, GB_I_INVITATION=-2, HELO_EQ_DE=0.35, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, RP_MATCHES_RCVD=-0.594] autolearn=ham Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id K4TgmC4qRwiB for ; Tue, 18 Nov 2014 11:18:23 -0800 (PST) Received: from atlas3.jacobs-university.de (atlas3.jacobs-university.de [212.201.44.18]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher AECDH-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id BACB91A001E for ; Tue, 18 Nov 2014 11:18:21 -0800 (PST) Received: from localhost (demetrius5.irc-it.jacobs-university.de [10.70.0.222]) by atlas3.jacobs-university.de (Postfix) with ESMTP id B08C5F5C for ; Tue, 18 Nov 2014 20:18:20 +0100 (CET) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at jacobs-university.de Received: from atlas3.jacobs-university.de ([10.70.0.220]) by localhost (demetrius5.jacobs-university.de [10.70.0.222]) (amavisd-new, port 10030) with ESMTP id brE4KMSl5p9G for ; Tue, 18 Nov 2014 20:18:10 +0100 (CET) Received: from hermes.jacobs-university.de (hermes.jacobs-university.de [212.201.44.23]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (Client CN "hermes.jacobs-university.de", Issuer "Jacobs University CA - G01" (verified OK)) by atlas3.jacobs-university.de (Postfix) with ESMTPS for ; Tue, 18 Nov 2014 20:18:19 +0100 (CET) Received: from localhost (demetrius2.jacobs-university.de [212.201.44.47]) by hermes.jacobs-university.de (Postfix) with ESMTP id 43C4B20017 for ; Tue, 18 Nov 2014 20:18:19 +0100 (CET) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at jacobs-university.de Received: from hermes.jacobs-university.de ([212.201.44.23]) by localhost (demetrius2.jacobs-university.de [212.201.44.32]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 8ldstidZw_nO; Tue, 18 Nov 2014 20:15:44 +0100 (CET) Received: from elstar.local (elstar.jacobs.jacobs-university.de [10.50.231.133]) by hermes.jacobs-university.de (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8E93220013; Tue, 18 Nov 2014 20:18:17 +0100 (CET) Received: by elstar.local (Postfix, from userid 501) id 5E2602FA4346; Tue, 18 Nov 2014 20:18:15 +0100 (CET) Date: Tue, 18 Nov 2014 20:18:15 +0100 From: Juergen Schoenwaelder To: netmod@ietf.org Message-ID: <20141118191814.GA89088@elstar.local> Mail-Followup-To: netmod@ietf.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="oyUTqETQ0mS9luUI" Content-Disposition: inline User-Agent: Mutt/1.4.2.3i Archived-At: http://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/netmod/2fMVhEomtN6lsz7rbKR8Fy8eBqg Subject: [netmod] YANG 1.1 virtual interim 2014-11-19 X-BeenThere: netmod@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list Reply-To: Juergen Schoenwaelder List-Id: NETMOD WG list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 18 Nov 2014 19:18:26 -0000 --oyUTqETQ0mS9luUI Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline Hi, we are having the next YANG 1.1 virtual interim tomorrow, 2014-11-19, at 4pm CET. Below you will find the webex information. We have two issues that failed the VRFY step on the mailing list * VRFY :Y13: allow multiple inheritance for identities * VRFY :Y58: associate an actions with a data node and we have 11 issues that are still OPEN: * OPEN :Y05: unprefixed path in top-level typedef * OPEN :Y09: introduce optional keys <> * OPEN :Y16: module advertisement optimization <> * OPEN :Y18: fix "when" expression context node problem * OPEN :Y25: make enum numbering purely informative and optional * OPEN :Y26: allow mandatory nodes in augment * OPEN :Y34: remove/deprecate/replace the 'anyxml' statement * OPEN :Y45: better conformance mechanism <> * OPEN :Y49: clarify nested submodule behavior * OPEN :Y54: remove the advertisement of conformance in hello message * OPEN :Y57: non-unique leaf-list Lets see how far we get tomorrow with this list. /js -- Juergen Schoenwaelder Jacobs University Bremen gGmbH Phone: +49 421 200 3587 Campus Ring 1, 28759 Bremen, Germany Fax: +49 421 200 3103 --oyUTqETQ0mS9luUI 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------=_Part_14267_885548710.1416337556542-- --oyUTqETQ0mS9luUI-- From nobody Tue Nov 18 11:35:35 2014 Return-Path: X-Original-To: netmod@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: netmod@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 619C01A7011 for ; Tue, 18 Nov 2014 11:35:33 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.144 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.144 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, HELO_EQ_DE=0.35, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, RP_MATCHES_RCVD=-0.594] autolearn=ham Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id K-Wx3js5goZ4 for ; Tue, 18 Nov 2014 11:35:30 -0800 (PST) Received: from atlas3.jacobs-university.de (atlas3.jacobs-university.de [212.201.44.18]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher AECDH-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 710421A700E for ; Tue, 18 Nov 2014 11:35:30 -0800 (PST) Received: from localhost (demetrius5.irc-it.jacobs-university.de [10.70.0.222]) by atlas3.jacobs-university.de (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2174E708; Tue, 18 Nov 2014 20:35:29 +0100 (CET) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at jacobs-university.de Received: from atlas3.jacobs-university.de ([10.70.0.220]) by localhost (demetrius5.jacobs-university.de [10.70.0.222]) (amavisd-new, port 10030) with ESMTP id y4LvCLeT_0dI; Tue, 18 Nov 2014 20:35:19 +0100 (CET) Received: from hermes.jacobs-university.de (hermes.jacobs-university.de [212.201.44.23]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (Client CN "hermes.jacobs-university.de", Issuer "Jacobs University CA - G01" (verified OK)) by atlas3.jacobs-university.de (Postfix) with ESMTPS; Tue, 18 Nov 2014 20:35:28 +0100 (CET) Received: from localhost (demetrius1.jacobs-university.de [212.201.44.46]) by hermes.jacobs-university.de (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3A5AD20017; Tue, 18 Nov 2014 20:35:28 +0100 (CET) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at jacobs-university.de Received: from hermes.jacobs-university.de ([212.201.44.23]) by localhost (demetrius1.jacobs-university.de [212.201.44.32]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id fK7NRwNRqTcG; Tue, 18 Nov 2014 20:35:26 +0100 (CET) Received: from elstar.local (elstar.jacobs.jacobs-university.de [10.50.231.133]) by hermes.jacobs-university.de (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4CE4B20013; Tue, 18 Nov 2014 20:35:26 +0100 (CET) Received: by elstar.local (Postfix, from userid 501) id 3EDD62FA43E4; Tue, 18 Nov 2014 20:35:26 +0100 (CET) Date: Tue, 18 Nov 2014 20:35:26 +0100 From: Juergen Schoenwaelder To: Kent Watsen Message-ID: <20141118193526.GA89238@elstar.local> Mail-Followup-To: Kent Watsen , Ladislav Lhotka , "netmod@ietf.org" References: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: User-Agent: Mutt/1.4.2.3i Archived-At: http://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/netmod/RIz7AxRlG9F4EBQ0we6NQ-Y36j0 Cc: "netmod@ietf.org" Subject: Re: [netmod] 64-bit numbers in JSON encoding X-BeenThere: netmod@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list Reply-To: Juergen Schoenwaelder List-Id: NETMOD WG list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 18 Nov 2014 19:35:33 -0000 On Tue, Nov 18, 2014 at 06:09:57PM +0000, Kent Watsen wrote: > > Isn't JavaScript support a primary concern? While apps using RESTCONF > would likely be programmed in other languages, let's not forget about > web-based interfaces...or what the "JS" in JSON stands for. > If we do not follow the I-JSON recommendations, we would have to declare in a very explicit way that an implementation is required to handle 64 bit signed and unsigned integers and that an implementation that does not do so is not compliant. You can, of course, do the right thing in almost any programming language, including JavaScript: https://www.npmjs.org/package/json-bignum In short, you need to do slow arithmetic using libraries that support proper arithmetics, e.g.: https://github.com/peterolson/BigRational.js https://github.com/iriscouch/bigdecimal.js To process 64-bit data precisely, you will need slow arithmetic libraries anyway. This pain is part of the JavaScript experience, regardless how we ship the numbers over the wire. /js -- Juergen Schoenwaelder Jacobs University Bremen gGmbH Phone: +49 421 200 3587 Campus Ring 1, 28759 Bremen, Germany Fax: +49 421 200 3103 From nobody Tue Nov 18 11:38:48 2014 Return-Path: X-Original-To: netmod@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: netmod@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id B90521A7022 for ; Tue, 18 Nov 2014 11:38:38 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.902 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.902 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, SPF_HELO_PASS=-0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id fgbnj4ccNgVF for ; Tue, 18 Nov 2014 11:38:32 -0800 (PST) Received: from na01-bl2-obe.outbound.protection.outlook.com (mail-bl2on0132.outbound.protection.outlook.com [65.55.169.132]) (using TLSv1 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 6340B1A7029 for ; Tue, 18 Nov 2014 11:38:32 -0800 (PST) Received: from BY2PR05CA035.namprd05.prod.outlook.com (10.141.250.25) by BN1PR05MB437.namprd05.prod.outlook.com (10.141.58.11) with Microsoft SMTP Server (TLS) id 15.1.16.15; Tue, 18 Nov 2014 19:38:30 +0000 Received: from BN1AFFO11FD006.protection.gbl (2a01:111:f400:7c10::181) by BY2PR05CA035.outlook.office365.com (2a01:111:e400:2c5f::25) with Microsoft SMTP Server (TLS) id 15.1.16.15 via Frontend Transport; Tue, 18 Nov 2014 19:38:29 +0000 Received: from P-EMF03-SAC.jnpr.net (66.129.239.17) by BN1AFFO11FD006.mail.protection.outlook.com (10.58.52.66) with Microsoft SMTP Server (TLS) id 15.1.6.13 via Frontend Transport; Tue, 18 Nov 2014 19:38:28 +0000 Received: from magenta.juniper.net (172.17.27.123) by P-EMF03-SAC.jnpr.net (172.24.192.21) with Microsoft SMTP Server (TLS) id 14.3.146.0; Tue, 18 Nov 2014 11:38:00 -0800 Received: from idle.juniper.net (idleski.juniper.net [172.25.4.26]) by magenta.juniper.net (8.11.3/8.11.3) with ESMTP id sAIJbtR59264; Tue, 18 Nov 2014 11:37:58 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from phil@juniper.net) Received: from idle.juniper.net (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by idle.juniper.net (8.14.4/8.14.3) with ESMTP id sAIJbguL080247; Tue, 18 Nov 2014 14:37:42 -0500 (EST) (envelope-from phil@idle.juniper.net) Message-ID: <201411181937.sAIJbguL080247@idle.juniper.net> To: Juergen Schoenwaelder Date: Tue, 18 Nov 2014 14:37:42 -0500 From: Phil Shafer MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain X-EOPAttributedMessage: 0 X-Forefront-Antispam-Report: CIP:66.129.239.17; CTRY:US; IPV:NLI; EFV:NLI; SFV:NSPM; SFS:(10019020)(6009001)(5423002)(199003)(164054003)(189002)(377424004)(97736003)(62966003)(106466001)(31966008)(77156002)(81156004)(54356999)(95666004)(50986999)(103666002)(4396001)(102836001)(107046002)(46102003)(84676001)(50466002)(48376002)(86362001)(15202345003)(47776003)(230783001)(64706001)(15975445006)(20776003)(99396003)(68736004)(21056001)(44976005)(120916001)(69596002)(92566001)(110136001)(105596002)(19580395003)(6806004)(92726001)(53416004)(76506005)(87936001); DIR:OUT; SFP:1102; SCL:1; SRVR:BN1PR05MB437; H:P-EMF03-SAC.jnpr.net; FPR:; MLV:sfv; PTR:InfoDomainNonexistent; A:1; MX:1; LANG:en; X-Microsoft-Antispam: UriScan:; X-Microsoft-Antispam: BCL:0;PCL:0;RULEID:;SRVR:BN1PR05MB437; X-Exchange-Antispam-Report-CFA-Test: BCL:0; PCL:0; RULEID:(7)(6); SRVR:BN1PR05MB437; X-Forefront-PRVS: 039975700A Received-SPF: SoftFail (protection.outlook.com: domain of transitioning juniper.net discourages use of 66.129.239.17 as permitted sender) Authentication-Results: spf=softfail (sender IP is 66.129.239.17) smtp.mailfrom=phil@juniper.net; X-Exchange-Antispam-Report-CFA-Test: BCL:0;PCL:0;RULEID:;SRVR:BN1PR05MB437; X-OriginatorOrg: juniper.net Archived-At: http://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/netmod/jPK-K8PRPLDK9gEJ0uCA6Cj_uXE Cc: netmod@ietf.org Subject: Re: [netmod] YANG 1.1 virtual interim 2014-11-19 X-BeenThere: netmod@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: NETMOD WG list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 18 Nov 2014 19:38:39 -0000 Juergen Schoenwaelder writes: >we are having the next YANG 1.1 virtual interim tomorrow, 2014-11-19, >at 4pm CET. Below you will find the webex information. I reviewed the issue list yesterday. The following is my opinions on these issues. Apologies for the "bulk transfer mode". Thanks, Phil --------------- * REVIEW :Y01: allow boolean if-feature No objection. Not sure why we wouldn't use a real XPath expression. Language describing the context would be needed, but it would allow a better set of logic operations. * REVIEW :Y02: allow must in input, output, and notification No objection. * REVIEW :Y03: allow if-feature in refine No objection. Does this mean the 'refine' is done if that expression is true, or that the refined target gets an new 'if-feature' statement? Does this if-feature replace an existing if-feature under the target or add to it? How does one remove an if-feature? * REVIEW :Y04: accessible tree in xpath in notifs and rpc document("data") has an existing meaning in XSLT. Are we supporting document() for arbitrary paths? http://www.w3.org/TR/xslt#document An alternative would be to make an XPath variable available that contains the notication, like: must "$notification/a or $notification/b"; Variables would also be useful for feature logic, like: when "$features/max-connections > 10"; * OPEN :Y05: unprefixed path in top-level typedef I'm unclear on the difference between y05-01 and y05-03. It seems like making typedefs work like groupings would be the path of least astonishment. * REVIEW :Y06: escaped characters in double quoted strings The convention that "\w" means "w" is very common and is what folks will expect (Y06-03). * REVIEW :Y07: do not allow when or if-feature on keys No objection, though I'm not sure why the exception for keys with identical conditions to their parents is worth the time/trouble to explain. Forbidding it is simpler. * DEAD :Y08: make leaf-list of type empty illegal Agree. * OPEN :Y09: introduce optional keys I don't understand the 'resolution' here. My concern is that optional keys make interaction with databases more difficult. Keys are mandatory for most databases. The usage of 'not(key)' in the second solution is not compatible with xpath expressions, which defines not() as follows: Function: boolean boolean(object) The boolean function converts its argument to a boolean as follows: - a number is true if and only if it is neither positive or negative zero nor NaN - a node-set is true if and only if it is non-empty - a string is true if and only if its length is non-zero - an object of a type other than the four basic types is converted to a boolean in a way that is dependent on that type Function: boolean not(boolean) The not function returns true if its argument is false, and false otherwise. not(optional-key) would be true when the value is a numeric zero or a zero length string. I would be against this change. Keeping keys mandatory is simpler and more straight forward. Those wanting an optional key can make a union type with a suitable 'missing' optional. * VRFY :Y10: allow restrictions on enumerations This is needlessly confusing. The YANG looks like it's defining a new type and the user is left to do the legwork to find out. Are you really looking for refinement for types? Seems like a type is an atomic idea, not suitable for refinement. I would be against this change. It's confusing to the reader. The same result can be done using a distinct type. * REVIEW :Y11: allow if-feature on enums Agree. * EDIT :Y12: initialized-by system Agree. We left this out originally and I do not recall the reasoning. It's something we use in JUNOS. * VRFY :Y13: allow multiple inheritance for identities No strong objection, aside from the fact that it makes identities (an already opaque subject) even more confusing. * REVIEW :Y14: clarify the string value for identities when used in must/when Agree. * DEAD :Y15: identity advertisement problem One can import modules without implementing them. Importing allows reuse of groupings and types, but doesn't require one to implement the objects in a module, unless they are augmented or referenced. If my monitoring/reporting module imports the bgp module to get access to the groupings and typedefs, my monitoring system does not need to implement bgp or its module to implement the monitoring/reporting one. I think there's some confusion regarding import-by-revision and the need for this new conformance mechanism. * OPEN :Y16: module advertisement optimization No disagreement in principle. I'd be happy to toss the capibility exchange completely, especially given that it's drifted so amazingly far from the original concept. A yang:get-capabilities RPC is a fine answer. * DEAD :Y17: support "augment" of unique Dead. * OPEN :Y18: fix "when" expression context node problem I think the problem is that the order in which various leaf 'when' statements are resolved is not defined. We can't say 'document order' since augment allows inconsistent ordering. And we can't say "optimial ordering", since that increases complexity and opens us to loops. Imagine if C had 'when ../A; default 2;'. Or 'when not(../A);'. I don't have an answer, but I can see adding words like "leafs constraints are evaluated in document order where possible" and "module authors need to avoid loops and logic errors". * DEAD :Y19: we need a better unique Dead. * REVIEW :Y20: new set of built-in XPath functions Will review draft-bjorklund-netmod-yang-xpath-extensions-00.txt separately. * DEAD :Y21: statement to define new XPath functions in a module It's possible to have a default value for the function in the function definition, or to use function-available() in when/must expressions that refer to it, but without a ternary operator, that's fairly ugly. I can certainly see the use for modules to define xpath functions, e.g. ipv4:host-part(addr) ipv6:canonical-format(addr). * DEAD :Y22: support constraints on unions Dead. * REVIEW :Y23: support negative patterns as string restrictions A fine addition. * DEAD :Y24: YIN -> YANG translation breaks text formatting Dead. Unavoidable cost of formating .vs. XML. * OPEN :Y25: make enum numbering purely informative and optional There's no contraction. The rule makes it possible for others to use these values, since values that change would be unusable. I think that enum numbering is _already_ purely informative and optional. * OPEN :Y26: allow mandatory nodes in augment The restriction against having mandatory nodes in augments is to prevent a client that understands the base model from breaking the constraints introduced in an augmented module. I think this is an important feature. Intra-module augments are already permitted. If we're seeing a need for 'abstract base models', then there should be a means of declaring in the base module that this is the permitted. Without such a mechanism, there's just too much room for abuse. * DEAD :Y27: allow mandatory nodes in an updated module Dead. * VRFY :Y28: support default values in leaf-lists The presece of multiple default statements looks like a typo, especially if they weren't adjacent in the file, I don't have a better suggestion. * REVIEW :Y29: allow choice as a short-hand case No objection. * REVIEW :Y30: allow leafref in union Will this create some interesting interactions? * REVIEW :Y31: allow require-instance in leafref No objection. * DEAD :Y32: allow boolean combinations of pattern Agree. * DEAD :Y33: add 'attribute' statement New attributes can be semi-defined via extension, like "my:inactive true". * OPEN :Y34: remove/deprecate/replace the 'anyxml' statement I'm not following why anyxml is being considered for removal. I consider it an important feature and strongly object. * REVIEW :Y35: allow empty in union No objection. * DEAD :Y36: associate a notification with a data node Dead. * DEAD :Y37: allow notifications to be derived from other notifications * DEAD :Y38: add 'mandatory' to NP-container * DEAD :Y39: define the terms system/user-controlled instances * DEAD :Y40: add floating point base types All dead. * REVIEW :Y41: clarification of "must" in NP-container Agree. * VRFY :Y42: a better model for configuration versus state data is needed Dead, right? * DEAD :Y43: add exception statement * DEAD :Y44: add a mechanism to parameterize error-message Agree. * OPEN :Y45: better conformance mechanism Will review draft-bierman-netmod-yang-conformance-02.txt separately. * DEAD :Y46: data-specific meta-data * DEAD :Y47: bit name too restrictive * DEAD :Y48: enabled leaf design pattern Dead. * OPEN :Y49: clarify nested submodule behavior Part of the list-everything-in-the-module was supposed to help the reader know what the working parts are. I'm not convinced this is really an issue, nor that it's an important feature. I've no strong opinion. * DEAD :Y50: additional extension grammar validation * DEAD :Y51: support for long running commands * DEAD :Y52: add a shorthand statement for 'mandatory' * DEAD :Y53: allow deep keys Agree. * OPEN :Y54: remove the advertisement of conformance information in NETCONF hello message This issue seems pretty dead. * EDIT :Y55: clarify type in union I'm guessing the confusion is around the term "the first type that validates is actually used", but yang says: When a string representing a union data type is validated, the string is validated against each member type, in the order they are specified in the "type" statement, until a match is found. "actually used" .vs. "until a match is found"? Are we looing for words like "When a data value can be validated against a member of a union, the value is considered to be of that type."? * REVIEW :Y56: UTF8 non-characters Making characters illegal is _always_ risky. Consider that XML made control characters illegal, and the grief that's caused. We should say UTF-8, and let I-JSON live with it's own problem. * OPEN :Y57: non-unique leaf-list While this is a problem, the normal fix is to introduce a user-specified handle. Making duplicate leaf-list entries introduces a number of problems, including ordering (which "3" are you referring to?) and deleting (remove both "3"s?). * VRFY :Y58: associate an actions with a data node I strongly disagree with the need for a second mechanism for performing RPCs. There's nothing one can do with this second method that can't be done with the existing one. From nobody Tue Nov 18 11:52:09 2014 Return-Path: X-Original-To: netmod@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: netmod@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id D7D351A86FB for ; Tue, 18 Nov 2014 11:52:07 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.902 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.902 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, SPF_HELO_PASS=-0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id oc-4UfZn5RDf for ; Tue, 18 Nov 2014 11:52:06 -0800 (PST) Received: from na01-bn1-obe.outbound.protection.outlook.com (mail-bn1bon0726.outbound.protection.outlook.com [IPv6:2a01:111:f400:fc10::1:726]) (using TLSv1 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id B19881A86F6 for ; Tue, 18 Nov 2014 11:52:05 -0800 (PST) Received: from BY2PR05CA052.namprd05.prod.outlook.com (10.141.250.42) by BLUPR05MB435.namprd05.prod.outlook.com (10.141.27.150) with Microsoft SMTP Server (TLS) id 15.1.16.15; Tue, 18 Nov 2014 19:51:42 +0000 Received: from BN1BFFO11FD023.protection.gbl (2a01:111:f400:7c10::1:179) by BY2PR05CA052.outlook.office365.com (2a01:111:e400:2c5f::42) with Microsoft SMTP Server (TLS) id 15.1.26.15 via Frontend Transport; Tue, 18 Nov 2014 19:51:41 +0000 Received: from P-EMF03-SAC.jnpr.net (66.129.239.17) by BN1BFFO11FD023.mail.protection.outlook.com (10.58.144.86) with Microsoft SMTP Server (TLS) id 15.1.6.13 via Frontend Transport; Tue, 18 Nov 2014 19:51:40 +0000 Received: from magenta.juniper.net (172.17.27.123) by P-EMF03-SAC.jnpr.net (172.24.192.21) with Microsoft SMTP Server (TLS) id 14.3.146.0; Tue, 18 Nov 2014 11:51:39 -0800 Received: from idle.juniper.net (idleski.juniper.net [172.25.4.26]) by magenta.juniper.net (8.11.3/8.11.3) with ESMTP id sAIJpMR68882; Tue, 18 Nov 2014 11:51:33 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from phil@juniper.net) Received: from idle.juniper.net (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by idle.juniper.net (8.14.4/8.14.3) with ESMTP id sAIJoxdg080541; Tue, 18 Nov 2014 14:50:59 -0500 (EST) (envelope-from phil@idle.juniper.net) Message-ID: <201411181950.sAIJoxdg080541@idle.juniper.net> To: Juergen Schoenwaelder In-Reply-To: <20141118193526.GA89238@elstar.local> Date: Tue, 18 Nov 2014 14:50:59 -0500 From: Phil Shafer MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain X-EOPAttributedMessage: 0 Received-SPF: SoftFail (protection.outlook.com: domain of transitioning juniper.net discourages use of 66.129.239.17 as permitted sender) Authentication-Results: spf=softfail (sender IP is 66.129.239.17) smtp.mailfrom=phil@juniper.net; X-Forefront-Antispam-Report: CIP:66.129.239.17; CTRY:US; IPV:NLI; EFV:NLI; SFV:NSPM; SFS:(10019020)(6009001)(189002)(199003)(164054003)(24454002)(48376002)(21056001)(15202345003)(4396001)(64706001)(77156002)(50466002)(97736003)(102836001)(20776003)(47776003)(62966003)(95666004)(81156004)(107046002)(106466001)(87936001)(103666002)(53416004)(84676001)(19580395003)(50986999)(92726001)(120916001)(76506005)(44976005)(6806004)(105596002)(54356999)(110136001)(99396003)(46102003)(92566001)(68736004)(31966008)(69596002)(15975445006)(86362001); DIR:OUT; SFP:1102; SCL:1; SRVR:BLUPR05MB435; H:P-EMF03-SAC.jnpr.net; FPR:; MLV:sfv; PTR:InfoDomainNonexistent; MX:1; A:1; LANG:en; X-Microsoft-Antispam: UriScan:; X-Microsoft-Antispam: BCL:0;PCL:0;RULEID:;SRVR:BLUPR05MB435; X-Exchange-Antispam-Report-Test: UriScan:; X-Exchange-Antispam-Report-CFA-Test: BCL:0;PCL:0;RULEID:;SRVR:BLUPR05MB435; X-Forefront-PRVS: 039975700A X-Exchange-Antispam-Report-CFA-Test: BCL:0;PCL:0;RULEID:;SRVR:BLUPR05MB435; X-OriginatorOrg: juniper.net Archived-At: http://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/netmod/uN3-KAsPbCmZAkccbRxlMSshe5o Cc: "netmod@ietf.org" Subject: Re: [netmod] 64-bit numbers in JSON encoding X-BeenThere: netmod@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: NETMOD WG list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 18 Nov 2014 19:52:08 -0000 Juergen Schoenwaelder writes: >On Tue, Nov 18, 2014 at 06:09:57PM +0000, Kent Watsen wrote: >> Isn't JavaScript support a primary concern? While apps using RESTCONF >> would likely be programmed in other languages, let's not forget about >> web-based interfaces...or what the "JS" in JSON stands for. Lauguages like XSLT have the same issue. http://www.w3.org/TR/xpath/#numbers 3.5 Numbers A number represents a floating-point number. A number can have any double-precision 64-bit format IEEE 754 value [IEEE 754]. >If we do not follow the I-JSON recommendations, we would have to >declare in a very explicit way that an implementation is required to >handle 64 bit signed and unsigned integers and that an implementation >that does not do so is not compliant. I think this is the root of the problem. Our explicit rules would not interact well with the normal encode/decode libraries for other languages, which means one would be stuck reimplementing such logic, or at best forking well-used libraries. There are bignum libraries, but plumbing the json parser in javascript to use them would not be easy, and might have performance impacts since the parsing library is likely native code. As much as I dislike it, quoting 64bit integers seems unavoidable. Thanks, Phil From nobody Tue Nov 18 12:28:12 2014 Return-Path: X-Original-To: netmod@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: netmod@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6F7F51A87E6 for ; Tue, 18 Nov 2014 12:28:11 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.144 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.144 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, HELO_EQ_DE=0.35, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, RP_MATCHES_RCVD=-0.594] autolearn=ham Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id XxGZlrKBsECO for ; Tue, 18 Nov 2014 12:28:09 -0800 (PST) Received: from atlas3.jacobs-university.de (atlas3.jacobs-university.de [212.201.44.18]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher AECDH-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 4F03A1A87DE for ; Tue, 18 Nov 2014 12:28:09 -0800 (PST) Received: from localhost (demetrius5.irc-it.jacobs-university.de [10.70.0.222]) by atlas3.jacobs-university.de (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1C9696F8; Tue, 18 Nov 2014 21:28:08 +0100 (CET) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at jacobs-university.de Received: from atlas3.jacobs-university.de ([10.70.0.220]) by localhost (demetrius5.jacobs-university.de [10.70.0.222]) (amavisd-new, port 10030) with ESMTP id sgSZG-T6mejK; Tue, 18 Nov 2014 21:27:57 +0100 (CET) Received: from hermes.jacobs-university.de (hermes.jacobs-university.de [212.201.44.23]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (Client CN "hermes.jacobs-university.de", Issuer "Jacobs University CA - G01" (verified OK)) by atlas3.jacobs-university.de (Postfix) with ESMTPS; Tue, 18 Nov 2014 21:28:07 +0100 (CET) Received: from localhost (demetrius1.jacobs-university.de [212.201.44.46]) by hermes.jacobs-university.de (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1A91820017; Tue, 18 Nov 2014 21:28:07 +0100 (CET) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at jacobs-university.de Received: from hermes.jacobs-university.de ([212.201.44.23]) by localhost (demetrius1.jacobs-university.de [212.201.44.32]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id zX1kMBGm_LjA; Tue, 18 Nov 2014 21:28:06 +0100 (CET) Received: from elstar.local (elstar.jacobs.jacobs-university.de [10.50.231.133]) by hermes.jacobs-university.de (Postfix) with ESMTP id D7B1A20013; Tue, 18 Nov 2014 21:28:05 +0100 (CET) Received: by elstar.local (Postfix, from userid 501) id BED4E2FA4585; Tue, 18 Nov 2014 21:28:05 +0100 (CET) Date: Tue, 18 Nov 2014 21:28:05 +0100 From: Juergen Schoenwaelder To: Andy Bierman Message-ID: <20141118202805.GA89320@elstar.local> Mail-Followup-To: Andy Bierman , Robert Varga , "netmod@ietf.org" References: <546B7A41.7050602@hq.sk> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: User-Agent: Mutt/1.4.2.3i Archived-At: http://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/netmod/uXGQpumIgg-vqzeNJ5dEjF-DQdM Cc: "netmod@ietf.org" Subject: Re: [netmod] instence-identifier in JSON X-BeenThere: netmod@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list Reply-To: Juergen Schoenwaelder List-Id: NETMOD WG list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 18 Nov 2014 20:28:11 -0000 As technical contributor, I am concerned about this design. RFC 6020 section 9.13.3. defines how instance-identifier values are represented and I think we walk on very thin ice if we allow 'encodings' to come up with their own (textual) representations of values of core data types. I know that 9.13.3 refers to XML namespaces and this does not apply to JSON and I understand that Lada favors to use a different namespace identifier in general for JSON. Every little extra conversion adds complexity. /js On Tue, Nov 18, 2014 at 09:42:38AM -0800, Andy Bierman wrote: > Hi, > > I was confused because I missed the Friday meeting. > This proposal is not to change the XML encoding in YANG 1.1, > just to add a JSON encoding of i-i. So I do not object. > > > I prefer the data-resource-identifier encoding in RESTCONF, > since it could be cut-and-pasted as a target resource URI. > > OLD: > >> /ietf-interfaces:interfaces/interface[name='eth0']/ietf-ip:ipv4/ip > > NEW: > >> /ietf-interfaces:interfaces/interface=eth0/ietf-ip:ipv4/ip > > (encoding used in error-urlpath) > > > Andy > > On Tue, Nov 18, 2014 at 8:56 AM, Robert Varga wrote: > > +1. This would be a huge boon to clarity and addresses one major pain point > > OpenDaylight users have been complaining about. > > > > Regarding not being compatible with XML encoding of QNames -- that is a fair > > observation, but given that JSON is an encoding of its own it should be > > possible to define instance identifier encoding which makes sense in JSON, > > without regard what other encodings do. > > > > Thanks, > > Robert > > > > On 11/18/2014 04:45 PM, Ladislav Lhotka wrote: > >> > >> Hi, > >> > >> I would like to verify consensus regarding my proposal to simplify the > >> JSON encoding of instance-identifier values. The idea is to use the same > >> rule for namespaces as in the data tree: indicate namespace at the > >> beginning and then also whenever it changes. > >> > >> For example, instead of prepending each node name with the namespace ID > >> (module name) > >> > >> /ietf-interfaces:interfaces/ietf-interfaces:interface[ > >> ietf-interfaces:name='eth0']/ietf-ip:ipv4/ietf-ip:ip > >> > >> we would have > >> > >> /ietf-interfaces:interfaces/interface[name='eth0']/ietf-ip:ipv4/ip > >> > >> Kent pointed out after the session that the same rule is also used in > >> RESTCONF Request URIs. > >> > >> If anybody is opposed to this change, please speak up. > >> > >> Thanks, Lada > >> > > > > _______________________________________________ > > netmod mailing list > > netmod@ietf.org > > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/netmod > > _______________________________________________ > netmod mailing list > netmod@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/netmod -- Juergen Schoenwaelder Jacobs University Bremen gGmbH Phone: +49 421 200 3587 Campus Ring 1, 28759 Bremen, Germany Fax: +49 421 200 3103 From nobody Tue Nov 18 12:59:20 2014 Return-Path: X-Original-To: netmod@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: netmod@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id DB71D1A8A1C for ; Tue, 18 Nov 2014 12:59:03 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.495 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.495 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, RP_MATCHES_RCVD=-0.594, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id cE46pOFU7Jw7 for ; Tue, 18 Nov 2014 12:59:02 -0800 (PST) Received: from mail.tail-f.com (mail.tail-f.com [83.241.162.140]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id EE3111A8A16 for ; Tue, 18 Nov 2014 12:58:58 -0800 (PST) Received: from localhost (unknown [193.13.112.215]) by mail.tail-f.com (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 2C0751280A16; Tue, 18 Nov 2014 21:58:57 +0100 (CET) Date: Tue, 18 Nov 2014 21:59:18 +0100 (CET) Message-Id: <20141118.215918.891334686283901715.mbj@tail-f.com> To: j.schoenwaelder@jacobs-university.de From: Martin Bjorklund In-Reply-To: <20141118202805.GA89320@elstar.local> References: <546B7A41.7050602@hq.sk> <20141118202805.GA89320@elstar.local> X-Mailer: Mew version 6.5 on Emacs 24.3 / Mule 6.0 (HANACHIRUSATO) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: Text/Plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Archived-At: http://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/netmod/KgnQQdAfjFvRiSNlqCoC5k6pagg Cc: netmod@ietf.org Subject: Re: [netmod] instence-identifier in JSON X-BeenThere: netmod@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: NETMOD WG list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 18 Nov 2014 20:59:04 -0000 Juergen Schoenwaelder wrote: > As technical contributor, I am concerned about this design. RFC 6020 > section 9.13.3. defines how instance-identifier values are represented > and I think we walk on very thin ice if we allow 'encodings' to come > up with their own (textual) representations of values of core data > types. > > I know that 9.13.3 refers to XML namespaces and this does not apply to > JSON and I understand that Lada favors to use a different namespace > identifier in general for JSON. > > Every little extra conversion adds complexity. Do you have an alternative? I agree with this, and in hindsight we should have picked a different encoding for i-i (and identityrefs) in YANG. But here we are and we need to do something for JSON to work. /martin From nobody Tue Nov 18 13:36:12 2014 Return-Path: X-Original-To: netmod@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: netmod@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id EE11F1A8AAC for ; Tue, 18 Nov 2014 13:24:50 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -15.095 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-15.095 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_HI=-5, RP_MATCHES_RCVD=-0.594, SPF_PASS=-0.001, USER_IN_DEF_DKIM_WL=-7.5] autolearn=ham Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id jZQ6BH_IhqYP for ; Tue, 18 Nov 2014 13:24:48 -0800 (PST) Received: from rcdn-iport-5.cisco.com (rcdn-iport-5.cisco.com [173.37.86.76]) (using TLSv1 with cipher RC4-SHA (128/128 bits)) (No client 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Received: from xhc-aln-x05.cisco.com (xhc-aln-x05.cisco.com [173.36.12.79]) by rcdn-core-8.cisco.com (8.14.5/8.14.5) with ESMTP id sAILOl0n031386 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=AES128-SHA bits=128 verify=FAIL) for ; Tue, 18 Nov 2014 21:24:47 GMT Received: from xmb-aln-x06.cisco.com ([169.254.1.191]) by xhc-aln-x05.cisco.com ([173.36.12.79]) with mapi id 14.03.0195.001; Tue, 18 Nov 2014 15:24:47 -0600 From: "Acee Lindem (acee)" To: "rtgwg@ietf.org" , "rtg-yang-coord@ietf.org" Thread-Topic: [netmod] High Level Comments on draft-ietf-netmod-rtg-cfg-16.txt Thread-Index: AQHQA3YTEqjfV3q7ZEmDxZzFaPT/wQ== Date: Tue, 18 Nov 2014 21:24:33 +0000 Message-ID: Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-originating-ip: [10.116.152.196] Content-Type: text/plain; charset="euc-kr" Content-ID: <416173654881A44A9BBEFF9715C56266@emea.cisco.com> Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 MIME-Version: 1.0 Archived-At: http://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/netmod/v-zHR7vmWtfZlStGoxGvor96Of0 X-Mailman-Approved-At: Tue, 18 Nov 2014 13:36:11 -0800 Subject: Re: [netmod] High Level Comments on draft-ietf-netmod-rtg-cfg-16.txt X-BeenThere: netmod@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: NETMOD WG list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 18 Nov 2014 21:24:51 -0000 Rmlyc3QsIGxldCBtZSBleHBsYWluIHdoeSBJIHJlcXVlc3RlZCB0aGF0IHRoZSByb3V0ZS1maWx0 ZXJzIGJlIHJlbW92ZWQNCmZyb20gdGhlIG1vZGVsLiBXaGF0IEkgZG9uJ3QgbGlrZSBhYm91dCB0 aGUgcm91dGUtZmlsdGVycyBpcyB0aGF0IHRoZXkNCmFyZSBtZXJlbHkgcGxhY2UtaG9sZGVycyBw bGFjZWQgYXQgYSBwb2ludC1vZi1hdHRhY2htZW50IHdoaWNoIEkgZG9uJ3QNCm5lY2Vzc2FyaWx5 IGFncmVlIHdpdGguICBBbHRob3VnaCB3ZSBtYXkgZW5kIHVwIHdpdGggc29tZXRoaW5nIHNpbWls YXIsDQp0aGVzZSBkZWZpbml0aW9ucyBzaG91bGQgYmUgaW4gYSBtb3JlIGNvbXBsZXRlIHJvdXRp bmcNCnBvbGljeSBtb2RlbC4gQWRkaXRpb25hbGx5LCBJIGJlbGlldmUgaXQgaXMgb2J2aW91cyB0 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X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.979 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.979 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, FM_FORGED_GMAIL=0.622, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW=-0.7, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id I_V1ZMScWbBl for ; Tue, 18 Nov 2014 13:45:41 -0800 (PST) Received: from mail-qc0-f171.google.com (mail-qc0-f171.google.com [209.85.216.171]) (using TLSv1 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-RC4-SHA (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 11C721A90B8 for ; Tue, 18 Nov 2014 13:45:41 -0800 (PST) Received: by mail-qc0-f171.google.com with SMTP id r5so7412846qcx.30 for ; Tue, 18 Nov 2014 13:45:40 -0800 (PST) X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20130820; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:in-reply-to:references:date :message-id:subject:from:to:cc:content-type; bh=KS3FFYQGR1G61juJGvTfUwOjocQiecR/nkta7xDlajI=; b=MndDl0mnah0NQR7mLrxpY1kNEaBndbakX8uN8TN8I2zr+SkgHLd7bbRjW2qMCKlok9 548o/wgxrBVcmnq2X51HoHTzx/iln6h7FTr3VfyqRuX1bcS1vNNZ5SG/5C4kGjt2I0bh 6SfcoDQsti1MND+tmJCiXQjBkkdoifhlKYPjq+QdoBGkMVM/+cuvcJzCKebDbf6dKqwH Bb8HwSQLxpgeSxP4zFzKoOcQdUbMV/hkAZlxDLmC/xo9sM0MlKifTWKAOdpSrsswnPAG iiT1FnWyforGvb6Qw/y7wimQ7LSMFjFNc/NnHl2PkfjJgK0q+fGFPFUYHxJNckxE1LCm WS7g== X-Gm-Message-State: ALoCoQl0y85Ak5Eled65AgFLAy3a3WAhCZyqNGp0ok5+m7cKxQs9l3StF1/XE6ItX+KkZHQ6bsSo MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Received: by 10.140.81.36 with SMTP id e33mr45986955qgd.90.1416347140182; Tue, 18 Nov 2014 13:45:40 -0800 (PST) Received: by 10.140.37.52 with HTTP; Tue, 18 Nov 2014 13:45:40 -0800 (PST) In-Reply-To: <20141118.215918.891334686283901715.mbj@tail-f.com> References: <546B7A41.7050602@hq.sk> <20141118202805.GA89320@elstar.local> <20141118.215918.891334686283901715.mbj@tail-f.com> Date: Tue, 18 Nov 2014 13:45:40 -0800 Message-ID: From: Andy Bierman To: Martin Bjorklund Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Archived-At: http://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/netmod/H_b5WC99mQsDWXNOk4AxIva3xac Cc: "netmod@ietf.org" Subject: Re: [netmod] instence-identifier in JSON X-BeenThere: netmod@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: NETMOD WG list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 18 Nov 2014 21:45:43 -0000 On Tue, Nov 18, 2014 at 12:59 PM, Martin Bjorklund wrote: > Juergen Schoenwaelder wrote: >> As technical contributor, I am concerned about this design. RFC 6020 >> section 9.13.3. defines how instance-identifier values are represented >> and I think we walk on very thin ice if we allow 'encodings' to come >> up with their own (textual) representations of values of core data >> types. >> >> I know that 9.13.3 refers to XML namespaces and this does not apply to >> JSON and I understand that Lada favors to use a different namespace >> identifier in general for JSON. >> >> Every little extra conversion adds complexity. > > Do you have an alternative? > > I agree with this, and in hindsight we should have picked a different > encoding for i-i (and identityrefs) in YANG. > > But here we are and we need to do something for JSON to work. > How is a client going to use i-i in RESTCONF? We send the 'error-urlpath' in all "errors" responses. When is i-i really used in data models? Actually, no tool knows what to do with "modname:foo" unless it implements draft-ietf-netmod-yang-json. As long as the underlying syntax is valid JSON, no matter what is added will have the same impact on implementations. We should try to get it right the first time. IMO the format returned should be easily mapped to a data resource URI in RESTCONF, so the data-resource-identifier format should be used, and generalized if needed. > > /martin Andy From nobody Tue Nov 18 17:28:05 2014 Return-Path: X-Original-To: netmod@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: netmod@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 37D0C1ACE49 for ; Tue, 18 Nov 2014 17:28:04 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.902 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.902 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, SPF_HELO_PASS=-0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id MnUapmSRcuVW for ; Tue, 18 Nov 2014 17:28:02 -0800 (PST) Received: from na01-bl2-obe.outbound.protection.outlook.com (mail-bl2on0145.outbound.protection.outlook.com [65.55.169.145]) (using TLSv1 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 935601ACE47 for ; Tue, 18 Nov 2014 17:28:01 -0800 (PST) Received: from BY2PR05CA036.namprd05.prod.outlook.com (10.141.250.26) by CO1PR05MB443.namprd05.prod.outlook.com (10.141.73.152) with Microsoft SMTP Server (TLS) id 15.1.16.15; Wed, 19 Nov 2014 01:27:58 +0000 Received: from BN1AFFO11FD057.protection.gbl (2a01:111:f400:7c10::146) by BY2PR05CA036.outlook.office365.com (2a01:111:e400:2c5f::26) with Microsoft SMTP Server (TLS) id 15.1.16.15 via Frontend Transport; Wed, 19 Nov 2014 01:27:58 +0000 Received: from P-EMF03-SAC.jnpr.net (66.129.239.17) by BN1AFFO11FD057.mail.protection.outlook.com (10.58.53.72) with Microsoft SMTP Server (TLS) id 15.1.6.13 via Frontend Transport; Wed, 19 Nov 2014 01:27:58 +0000 Received: from magenta.juniper.net (172.17.27.123) by P-EMF03-SAC.jnpr.net (172.24.192.21) with Microsoft SMTP Server (TLS) id 14.3.146.0; Tue, 18 Nov 2014 17:27:52 -0800 Received: from idle.juniper.net (idleski.juniper.net [172.25.4.26]) by magenta.juniper.net (8.11.3/8.11.3) with ESMTP id sAJ1RpR18256; Tue, 18 Nov 2014 17:27:52 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from phil@juniper.net) Received: from idle.juniper.net (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by idle.juniper.net (8.14.4/8.14.3) with ESMTP id sAJ1Rbux084506; Tue, 18 Nov 2014 20:27:38 -0500 (EST) (envelope-from phil@idle.juniper.net) Message-ID: <201411190127.sAJ1Rbux084506@idle.juniper.net> To: Juergen Schoenwaelder In-Reply-To: <20141118202805.GA89320@elstar.local> Date: Tue, 18 Nov 2014 20:27:37 -0500 From: Phil Shafer MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain X-EOPAttributedMessage: 0 Received-SPF: SoftFail (protection.outlook.com: domain of transitioning juniper.net discourages use of 66.129.239.17 as permitted sender) Authentication-Results: spf=softfail (sender IP is 66.129.239.17) smtp.mailfrom=phil@juniper.net; X-Forefront-Antispam-Report: CIP:66.129.239.17; CTRY:US; IPV:NLI; EFV:NLI; SFV:NSPM; SFS:(10019020)(6009001)(164054003)(24454002)(199003)(189002)(377454003)(479174003)(51704005)(97736003)(20776003)(64706001)(46102003)(69596002)(68736004)(48376002)(50986999)(76506005)(47776003)(53416004)(50466002)(54356999)(95666004)(107046002)(110136001)(105596002)(561944003)(92566001)(102836001)(15202345003)(99396003)(92726001)(44976005)(86362001)(103666002)(120916001)(19580405001)(84676001)(15975445006)(62966003)(81156004)(19580395003)(4396001)(77156002)(106466001)(31966008)(6806004)(21056001)(87936001); DIR:OUT; SFP:1102; SCL:1; SRVR:CO1PR05MB443; H:P-EMF03-SAC.jnpr.net; FPR:; MLV:sfv; PTR:InfoDomainNonexistent; A:1; MX:1; LANG:en; X-Microsoft-Antispam: UriScan:; X-Microsoft-Antispam: BCL:0;PCL:0;RULEID:;SRVR:CO1PR05MB443; X-Exchange-Antispam-Report-Test: UriScan:; X-Exchange-Antispam-Report-CFA-Test: BCL:0;PCL:0;RULEID:;SRVR:CO1PR05MB443; X-Forefront-PRVS: 04004D94E2 X-Exchange-Antispam-Report-CFA-Test: BCL:0;PCL:0;RULEID:;SRVR:CO1PR05MB443; X-OriginatorOrg: juniper.net Archived-At: http://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/netmod/IfdHWGUnqBc2q7rsPv4EUnNRzY4 Cc: "netmod@ietf.org" Subject: Re: [netmod] instence-identifier in JSON X-BeenThere: netmod@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: NETMOD WG list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 19 Nov 2014 01:28:04 -0000 +1 Juergen Schoenwaelder writes: >As technical contributor, I am concerned about this design. RFC 6020 >section 9.13.3. defines how instance-identifier values are represented >and I think we walk on very thin ice if we allow 'encodings' to come >up with their own (textual) representations of values of core data >types. > >I know that 9.13.3 refers to XML namespaces and this does not apply to >JSON and I understand that Lada favors to use a different namespace >identifier in general for JSON. > >Every little extra conversion adds complexity. > >/js > >On Tue, Nov 18, 2014 at 09:42:38AM -0800, Andy Bierman wrote: >> Hi, >> >> I was confused because I missed the Friday meeting. >> This proposal is not to change the XML encoding in YANG 1.1, >> just to add a JSON encoding of i-i. So I do not object. >> >> >> I prefer the data-resource-identifier encoding in RESTCONF, >> since it could be cut-and-pasted as a target resource URI. >> >> OLD: >> >> /ietf-interfaces:interfaces/interface[name='eth0']/ietf-ip:ipv4/ip >> >> NEW: >> >> /ietf-interfaces:interfaces/interface=eth0/ietf-ip:ipv4/ip >> >> (encoding used in error-urlpath) >> >> >> Andy >> >> On Tue, Nov 18, 2014 at 8:56 AM, Robert Varga wrote: >> > +1. This would be a huge boon to clarity and addresses one major pain point >> > OpenDaylight users have been complaining about. >> > >> > Regarding not being compatible with XML encoding of QNames -- that is a fair >> > observation, but given that JSON is an encoding of its own it should be >> > possible to define instance identifier encoding which makes sense in JSON, >> > without regard what other encodings do. >> > >> > Thanks, >> > Robert >> > >> > On 11/18/2014 04:45 PM, Ladislav Lhotka wrote: >> >> >> >> Hi, >> >> >> >> I would like to verify consensus regarding my proposal to simplify the >> >> JSON encoding of instance-identifier values. The idea is to use the same >> >> rule for namespaces as in the data tree: indicate namespace at the >> >> beginning and then also whenever it changes. >> >> >> >> For example, instead of prepending each node name with the namespace ID >> >> (module name) >> >> >> >> /ietf-interfaces:interfaces/ietf-interfaces:interface[ >> >> ietf-interfaces:name='eth0']/ietf-ip:ipv4/ietf-ip:ip >> >> >> >> we would have >> >> >> >> /ietf-interfaces:interfaces/interface[name='eth0']/ietf-ip:ipv4/ip >> >> >> >> Kent pointed out after the session that the same rule is also used in >> >> RESTCONF Request URIs. >> >> >> >> If anybody is opposed to this change, please speak up. >> >> >> >> Thanks, Lada >> >> >> > >> > _______________________________________________ >> > netmod mailing list >> > netmod@ietf.org >> > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/netmod >> >> _______________________________________________ >> netmod mailing list >> netmod@ietf.org >> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/netmod > >-- >Juergen Schoenwaelder Jacobs University Bremen gGmbH >Phone: +49 421 200 3587 Campus Ring 1, 28759 Bremen, Germany >Fax: +49 421 200 3103 > >_______________________________________________ >netmod mailing list >netmod@ietf.org >https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/netmod From nobody Tue Nov 18 18:39:01 2014 Return-Path: X-Original-To: netmod@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: netmod@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 64DC91A8547 for ; Tue, 18 Nov 2014 18:38:51 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.902 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.902 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, SPF_HELO_PASS=-0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id QJ1w1rVwPt1M for ; Tue, 18 Nov 2014 18:38:46 -0800 (PST) Received: from na01-bn1-obe.outbound.protection.outlook.com (mail-bn1bon0756.outbound.protection.outlook.com [IPv6:2a01:111:f400:fc10::1:756]) (using TLSv1 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 08A8E1A8AAF for ; Tue, 18 Nov 2014 18:38:45 -0800 (PST) Received: from BY2PR05CA036.namprd05.prod.outlook.com (10.141.250.26) by CO1PR05MB442.namprd05.prod.outlook.com (10.141.73.146) with Microsoft SMTP Server (TLS) id 15.1.16.15; Wed, 19 Nov 2014 02:38:22 +0000 Received: from BY2FFO11FD023.protection.gbl (2a01:111:f400:7c0c::189) by BY2PR05CA036.outlook.office365.com (2a01:111:e400:2c5f::26) with Microsoft SMTP Server (TLS) id 15.1.16.15 via Frontend Transport; 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X-OriginatorOrg: juniper.net Archived-At: http://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/netmod/I3LULpum7Gp6p64K7Fe9RUnleFM Subject: [netmod] review of draft-bierman-netmod-yang-conformance-04 X-BeenThere: netmod@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: NETMOD WG list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 19 Nov 2014 02:38:51 -0000 Here's my review of draft-bierman-netmod-yang-conformance-04: Section 3 implies there are problems, but the only ones it lists are strawmen. If a module does import without specifying the revision of the imported module, bad things can happen. Fortunately this isn't a problem when one uses import by revision. All standard modules and most serious externally published ones will use import-by-revision. The drift issues are not related to import-by-revision, since two modules importing distinct revisions of a module can _expect_ different contents for typedefs, groupings, etc. Tools will need to support this concept, and will need to understand that when module 'A' adds leaf 'g2l' to grouping 'g2' at revision 'xxxx-yy-zz', then modules that import that revision will see that leaf where modules importing an earlier version will not. These means that YANG compilers will need to understand this. But it does not mean that there is a 'drift' issue. Similarly, implementing a module that imports a second module is _not_ the same thing as implementing that second module. Anyone seeing that a device advertises the first module can inspect it to see revision information for imported modules. But the device doesn't need to implement or advertise the second module. So when that second module is revised, the device advertisement doesn't need to change. If the device implements 10 modules which each import distinct revisions of that second module, it does not need to implement that module. If it does, it will advertise the revision that _it_ implements, not the one imported by one of the 10 other modules. If import-by-revision did not work this way, then we run into the lock-step problem I mentioned in the WG meeting, where an update to a widely imported module is impossible, since every module that imports it must move to the new revision immediately, and every device that implements those modules must move to the modern revision in lock-step. All the vendor's various teams must ship new code in the same release. Both scenarios are simply unworkable. Fortunately, we have import-by-revision, which handles the problem nicely. 4.4 claims "Import and Include By Revision Do Not Really Help" by stating: Any new YANG statements would cause duplication of the module or submodule name and revision date information. However, this solution is not workable because the ripple effect will require constant updating of many YANG modules just to change the revision-date clause. By this is not true. If the importing module does not need anything in the new revision, it can continue to import the old one. There is not need to update it. Also it says: Multiple concurrent revisions of YANG datastore contents are not supported in a NETCONF server. Nothing about import-by-revision requires "Multiple concurrent revisions of YANG datastore contents". Each container, leaf, list, or leaf-list defined by a module is constructed with the groupings and typedefs defined in a particular revision of imported modules. ---------- Consider this example: module red { revision 1111-11-11; grouping red-one { leaf one { ... } } } module red { revision 2222-22-22; grouping red-one { leaf one { ... } leaf two { ... } } } module blue { revision 3333-33-33; import red { revision 1111-11-11; } container top { uses red-one; } } module green { revision 3333-33-33; import red { revision 2222-22-22; } container top { uses red-one; } } One expects to find the following valid: data data data But would not be valid. The device would advertise blue?revision=3333-33-33 green?revision=3333-33-33 but would not be required to advertise red unless it actually implements some construct defined in red. You could add something like: module red { revision 3333-33-33; grouping red-one { leaf one { ... } leaf two { ... } } container top { uses red-one; } } Then device could implement a modern red, but still continue to support the existing green and blue modules. It would advertise the following: blue?revision=3333-33-33 green?revision=3333-33-33 red?revision=3333-33-33 blue:two would contine to be invalid. I don't think this draft demonstrates a real problem, and might be caused by a misunderstanding of how import-by-revision works. The idea of lock-step revision updates is unworkable in any sort of distributed development arena, including the IETF and most vendors. I would be strongly opposed to the working group adopting this work. Thanks, Phil From nobody Tue Nov 18 18:53:15 2014 Return-Path: X-Original-To: netmod@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: netmod@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3F7351ACF0E for ; Tue, 18 Nov 2014 18:53:13 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.902 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.902 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, SPF_HELO_PASS=-0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id bKYHeaTCDA29 for ; Tue, 18 Nov 2014 18:53:11 -0800 (PST) Received: from na01-by2-obe.outbound.protection.outlook.com (mail-by2on0108.outbound.protection.outlook.com [207.46.100.108]) (using TLSv1 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 61CCF1ACF10 for ; Tue, 18 Nov 2014 18:53:11 -0800 (PST) Received: from CO2PR05CA034.namprd05.prod.outlook.com (10.141.241.162) by CO1PR05MB441.namprd05.prod.outlook.com (10.141.73.147) with Microsoft SMTP Server (TLS) id 15.1.16.15; Wed, 19 Nov 2014 02:53:10 +0000 Received: from BY2FFO11FD024.protection.gbl (2a01:111:f400:7c0c::147) by CO2PR05CA034.outlook.office365.com (2a01:111:e400:1429::34) with Microsoft SMTP Server (TLS) id 15.1.26.15 via Frontend Transport; Wed, 19 Nov 2014 02:53:10 +0000 Received: from P-EMF03-SAC.jnpr.net (66.129.239.17) by BY2FFO11FD024.mail.protection.outlook.com (10.1.15.213) with Microsoft SMTP Server (TLS) id 15.1.6.13 via Frontend Transport; Wed, 19 Nov 2014 02:53:09 +0000 Received: from magenta.juniper.net (172.17.27.123) by P-EMF03-SAC.jnpr.net (172.24.192.21) with Microsoft SMTP Server (TLS) id 14.3.146.0; Tue, 18 Nov 2014 18:53:09 -0800 Received: from idle.juniper.net (idleski.juniper.net [172.25.4.26]) by magenta.juniper.net (8.11.3/8.11.3) with ESMTP id sAJ2r7R77772 for ; Tue, 18 Nov 2014 18:53:08 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from phil@juniper.net) Received: from idle.juniper.net (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by idle.juniper.net (8.14.4/8.14.3) with ESMTP id sAJ2qsQA085198 for ; Tue, 18 Nov 2014 21:52:54 -0500 (EST) (envelope-from phil@idle.juniper.net) Message-ID: <201411190252.sAJ2qsQA085198@idle.juniper.net> To: Date: Tue, 18 Nov 2014 21:52:54 -0500 From: Phil Shafer MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain X-EOPAttributedMessage: 0 Received-SPF: SoftFail (protection.outlook.com: domain of transitioning juniper.net discourages use of 66.129.239.17 as permitted sender) Authentication-Results: spf=softfail (sender IP is 66.129.239.17) smtp.mailfrom=phil@juniper.net; X-Forefront-Antispam-Report: CIP:66.129.239.17; CTRY:US; IPV:NLI; EFV:NLI; SFV:NSPM; SFS:(10019020)(6009001)(199003)(189002)(164054003)(51694002)(92566001)(87936001)(21056001)(69596002)(6806004)(120916001)(97736003)(102836001)(84676001)(46102003)(92726001)(44976005)(103666002)(86362001)(53416004)(68736004)(110136001)(76506005)(47776003)(20776003)(4396001)(64706001)(50466002)(450100001)(50986999)(221733001)(54356999)(48376002)(107886001)(99396003)(2351001)(229853001)(77156002)(95666004)(105596002)(31966008)(107046002)(81156004)(106466001)(62966003); DIR:OUT; SFP:1102; SCL:1; SRVR:CO1PR05MB441; H:P-EMF03-SAC.jnpr.net; FPR:; MLV:sfv; PTR:InfoDomainNonexistent; A:1; MX:1; LANG:en; X-Microsoft-Antispam: UriScan:; X-Microsoft-Antispam: BCL:0;PCL:0;RULEID:;SRVR:CO1PR05MB441; X-Exchange-Antispam-Report-Test: UriScan:; X-Exchange-Antispam-Report-CFA-Test: BCL:0;PCL:0;RULEID:;SRVR:CO1PR05MB441; X-Forefront-PRVS: 04004D94E2 X-Exchange-Antispam-Report-CFA-Test: BCL:0;PCL:0;RULEID:;SRVR:CO1PR05MB441; X-OriginatorOrg: juniper.net Archived-At: http://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/netmod/_8XabDfWVdhh0wJQHhGfsBvIcnU Subject: [netmod] Work volume X-BeenThere: netmod@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: NETMOD WG list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 19 Nov 2014 02:53:13 -0000 I just wanted to make a general comment on the volume of work being addressed by the working group. This is also true of the netconf working group. During last week's meeting, we have numerous problems getting real discussions going regarding current drafts and open issues. It seems like complex topics are best handled in these meetings, since it gives them the widest exposure, not just to our normal cast of characters but to members of other WGs as well. When we have JSON/I-JSON issues, we can get JSON WG characters to help. Similar for routing, etc. So my suggestion is that we try to reserve this precious time to issues we know are contentious or require more discussion. We can have draft authors submit the traditional "status" slides to the mailing lists before the meeting to allow us to decide what discussions are needed for the face-to-face meeting. This is especially true since we seem to be stuck with Friday meetings, which remove the opportunity to discuss these issues in hallways and bars. Thanks, Phil From nobody Tue Nov 18 23:52:19 2014 Return-Path: X-Original-To: netmod@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: netmod@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id BE3651A9146 for ; Tue, 18 Nov 2014 23:52:17 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.9 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.9 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9] autolearn=ham Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id m-6Tmb6qHTaY for ; Tue, 18 Nov 2014 23:52:14 -0800 (PST) Received: from trail.lhotka.name (trail.lhotka.name [77.48.224.143]) (using TLSv1.1 with cipher AECDH-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 3966F1A1A54 for ; Tue, 18 Nov 2014 23:52:13 -0800 (PST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by trail.lhotka.name (Postfix) with ESMTP id DA6D25406F1; Wed, 19 Nov 2014 08:52:10 +0100 (CET) Received: from trail.lhotka.name ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (trail.lhotka.name [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id eTNwSKYWph91; Wed, 19 Nov 2014 08:52:06 +0100 (CET) Received: from localhost (unknown [195.113.220.254]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by trail.lhotka.name (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id E10AB540154; Wed, 19 Nov 2014 08:52:05 +0100 (CET) From: Ladislav Lhotka To: Andy Bierman , Robert Varga In-Reply-To: References: <546B7A41.7050602@hq.sk> User-Agent: Notmuch/0.18.1 (http://notmuchmail.org) Emacs/24.4.51.2 (x86_64-apple-darwin14.0.0) Date: Wed, 19 Nov 2014 08:52:04 +0100 Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Archived-At: http://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/netmod/snoEYfdLH5lidDapu8dx8_JsutQ Cc: "netmod@ietf.org" Subject: Re: [netmod] instence-identifier in JSON X-BeenThere: netmod@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: NETMOD WG list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 19 Nov 2014 07:52:18 -0000 Andy Bierman writes: > Hi, > > I was confused because I missed the Friday meeting. > This proposal is not to change the XML encoding in YANG 1.1, > just to add a JSON encoding of i-i. So I do not object. That's why the subject was "... in JSON". :-) > > > I prefer the data-resource-identifier encoding in RESTCONF, > since it could be cut-and-pasted as a target resource URI. But this would mean departing from i-i definition even further. Lada > > OLD: >>> /ietf-interfaces:interfaces/interface[name='eth0']/ietf-ip:ipv4/ip > > NEW: >>> /ietf-interfaces:interfaces/interface=eth0/ietf-ip:ipv4/ip > > (encoding used in error-urlpath) > > > Andy > > On Tue, Nov 18, 2014 at 8:56 AM, Robert Varga wrote: >> +1. This would be a huge boon to clarity and addresses one major pain point >> OpenDaylight users have been complaining about. >> >> Regarding not being compatible with XML encoding of QNames -- that is a fair >> observation, but given that JSON is an encoding of its own it should be >> possible to define instance identifier encoding which makes sense in JSON, >> without regard what other encodings do. >> >> Thanks, >> Robert >> >> On 11/18/2014 04:45 PM, Ladislav Lhotka wrote: >>> >>> Hi, >>> >>> I would like to verify consensus regarding my proposal to simplify the >>> JSON encoding of instance-identifier values. The idea is to use the same >>> rule for namespaces as in the data tree: indicate namespace at the >>> beginning and then also whenever it changes. >>> >>> For example, instead of prepending each node name with the namespace ID >>> (module name) >>> >>> /ietf-interfaces:interfaces/ietf-interfaces:interface[ >>> ietf-interfaces:name='eth0']/ietf-ip:ipv4/ietf-ip:ip >>> >>> we would have >>> >>> /ietf-interfaces:interfaces/interface[name='eth0']/ietf-ip:ipv4/ip >>> >>> Kent pointed out after the session that the same rule is also used in >>> RESTCONF Request URIs. >>> >>> If anybody is opposed to this change, please speak up. >>> >>> Thanks, Lada >>> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> netmod mailing list >> netmod@ietf.org >> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/netmod -- Ladislav Lhotka, CZ.NIC Labs PGP Key ID: E74E8C0C From nobody Wed Nov 19 00:08:16 2014 Return-Path: X-Original-To: netmod@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: netmod@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id D17091ACFB8 for ; Wed, 19 Nov 2014 00:08:13 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.9 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.9 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9] autolearn=ham Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id tjYsM4j5waz5 for ; Wed, 19 Nov 2014 00:08:11 -0800 (PST) Received: from trail.lhotka.name (trail.lhotka.name [77.48.224.143]) (using TLSv1.1 with cipher AECDH-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 3AAF11ACFB5 for ; Wed, 19 Nov 2014 00:08:10 -0800 (PST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by trail.lhotka.name (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9E7B35406F1; Wed, 19 Nov 2014 09:08:08 +0100 (CET) Received: from trail.lhotka.name ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (trail.lhotka.name [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id wpgwK-46xk0a; Wed, 19 Nov 2014 09:08:04 +0100 (CET) Received: from localhost (unknown [195.113.220.254]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by trail.lhotka.name (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 6F28A540154; Wed, 19 Nov 2014 09:08:04 +0100 (CET) From: Ladislav Lhotka To: Martin Bjorklund , j.schoenwaelder@jacobs-university.de In-Reply-To: <20141118.215918.891334686283901715.mbj@tail-f.com> References: <546B7A41.7050602@hq.sk> <20141118202805.GA89320@elstar.local> <20141118.215918.891334686283901715.mbj@tail-f.com> User-Agent: Notmuch/0.18.1 (http://notmuchmail.org) Emacs/24.4.51.2 (x86_64-apple-darwin14.0.0) Date: Wed, 19 Nov 2014 09:08:03 +0100 Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Archived-At: http://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/netmod/x2jPlMwDNdnInagVp4E7upLfuCU Cc: netmod@ietf.org Subject: Re: [netmod] instence-identifier in JSON X-BeenThere: netmod@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: NETMOD WG list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 19 Nov 2014 08:08:14 -0000 Martin Bjorklund writes: > Juergen Schoenwaelder wrote: >> As technical contributor, I am concerned about this design. RFC 6020 >> section 9.13.3. defines how instance-identifier values are represented >> and I think we walk on very thin ice if we allow 'encodings' to come >> up with their own (textual) representations of values of core data >> types. >> >> I know that 9.13.3 refers to XML namespaces and this does not apply to >> JSON and I understand that Lada favors to use a different namespace >> identifier in general for JSON. >> >> Every little extra conversion adds complexity. > > Do you have an alternative? > > I agree with this, and in hindsight we should have picked a different > encoding for i-i (and identityrefs) in YANG. Right. The particular form of i-i as defined in RFC 6020 probably follows from two factors: - encoding of namespaces in XML - however, the URI/prefix duality was identified as one of serious problems of XML [1]. - in XPath 1.0, all QNames have to have explicit prefixes - this problem was fixed in XPath 2.0. > > But here we are and we need to do something for JSON to work. ... and we needn't necessarily repeat XML mistakes. Lada [1] http://blog.jclark.com/2010/01/xml-namespaces.html (This is a really interesting text written by one of XML gurus that shows how a sequence of absolutely logical steps can lead to a wrong solution.) > > > /martin > > _______________________________________________ > netmod mailing list > netmod@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/netmod -- Ladislav Lhotka, CZ.NIC Labs PGP Key ID: E74E8C0C From nobody Wed Nov 19 00:18:13 2014 Return-Path: X-Original-To: netmod@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: netmod@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id EC2101ACFB5 for ; Wed, 19 Nov 2014 00:18:11 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.9 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.9 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9] autolearn=ham Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 2KNlZPfRNcfq for ; Wed, 19 Nov 2014 00:18:10 -0800 (PST) Received: from trail.lhotka.name (trail.lhotka.name [77.48.224.143]) (using TLSv1.1 with cipher AECDH-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 5C2CB1ACF81 for ; Wed, 19 Nov 2014 00:18:10 -0800 (PST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by trail.lhotka.name (Postfix) with ESMTP id C7A5D5406F1; Wed, 19 Nov 2014 09:18:08 +0100 (CET) Received: from trail.lhotka.name ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (trail.lhotka.name [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id x0vn-5-BI3fE; Wed, 19 Nov 2014 09:18:05 +0100 (CET) Received: from localhost (unknown [195.113.220.254]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by trail.lhotka.name (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 5741A540154; Wed, 19 Nov 2014 09:18:05 +0100 (CET) From: Ladislav Lhotka To: Robert Varga , netmod@ietf.org In-Reply-To: <546B7A41.7050602@hq.sk> References: <546B7A41.7050602@hq.sk> User-Agent: Notmuch/0.18.1 (http://notmuchmail.org) Emacs/24.4.51.2 (x86_64-apple-darwin14.0.0) Date: Wed, 19 Nov 2014 09:18:04 +0100 Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Archived-At: http://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/netmod/7ZZ02gh9NxK8h7qwcJWL_xFLDFM Subject: Re: [netmod] instence-identifier in JSON X-BeenThere: netmod@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: NETMOD WG list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 19 Nov 2014 08:18:12 -0000 Hi Robert, thank you. I think your feedback is valuable because your implementation is written from ground up for JSON. I suspect the discussions about JSON encoding (and mandatory encoding for RESTCONF, for that matter) are often biased by the fact that some implementations already use XML as their original/primary encoding. Lada Robert Varga writes: > +1. This would be a huge boon to clarity and addresses one major pain > point OpenDaylight users have been complaining about. > > Regarding not being compatible with XML encoding of QNames -- that is a > fair observation, but given that JSON is an encoding of its own it > should be possible to define instance identifier encoding which makes > sense in JSON, without regard what other encodings do. > > Thanks, > Robert > > On 11/18/2014 04:45 PM, Ladislav Lhotka wrote: >> Hi, >> >> I would like to verify consensus regarding my proposal to simplify the >> JSON encoding of instance-identifier values. The idea is to use the same >> rule for namespaces as in the data tree: indicate namespace at the >> beginning and then also whenever it changes. >> >> For example, instead of prepending each node name with the namespace ID >> (module name) >> >> /ietf-interfaces:interfaces/ietf-interfaces:interface[ >> ietf-interfaces:name='eth0']/ietf-ip:ipv4/ietf-ip:ip >> >> we would have >> >> /ietf-interfaces:interfaces/interface[name='eth0']/ietf-ip:ipv4/ip >> >> Kent pointed out after the session that the same rule is also used in >> RESTCONF Request URIs. >> >> If anybody is opposed to this change, please speak up. >> >> Thanks, Lada >> > -- Ladislav Lhotka, CZ.NIC Labs PGP Key ID: E74E8C0C From nobody Wed Nov 19 00:26:59 2014 Return-Path: X-Original-To: netmod@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: netmod@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 65B701ACFA8 for ; Wed, 19 Nov 2014 00:26:57 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.9 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.9 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9] autolearn=ham Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id iZIYlrNiayWn for ; Wed, 19 Nov 2014 00:26:55 -0800 (PST) Received: from trail.lhotka.name (trail.lhotka.name [77.48.224.143]) (using TLSv1.1 with cipher AECDH-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 73CD21ACFC2 for ; Wed, 19 Nov 2014 00:26:55 -0800 (PST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by trail.lhotka.name (Postfix) with ESMTP id 789365406F1; Wed, 19 Nov 2014 09:26:53 +0100 (CET) Received: from trail.lhotka.name ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (trail.lhotka.name [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id LrmgRfwv8geE; Wed, 19 Nov 2014 09:26:50 +0100 (CET) Received: from localhost (unknown [195.113.220.254]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by trail.lhotka.name (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id CCAEC540154; Wed, 19 Nov 2014 09:26:49 +0100 (CET) From: Ladislav Lhotka To: Kent Watsen , "netmod\@ietf.org" In-Reply-To: References: User-Agent: Notmuch/0.18.1 (http://notmuchmail.org) Emacs/24.4.51.2 (x86_64-apple-darwin14.0.0) Date: Wed, 19 Nov 2014 09:26:48 +0100 Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Archived-At: http://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/netmod/697A4UW7tgAQaPSJOoCrm6oEu1A Subject: Re: [netmod] 64-bit numbers in JSON encoding X-BeenThere: netmod@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: NETMOD WG list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 19 Nov 2014 08:26:57 -0000 Kent Watsen writes: > On 11/18/14, 11:15 AM, "Ladislav Lhotka" wrote: > >>Hi, >> >>one of the things that IMO requires further discussion is the way how >>64-bit numbers (uint64, int64, decimal64) are encoded in JSON. Following >>the recommendation of I-JSON, the encoding was changed from JSON number >>to string. >> >>However, as Carsten Bormann explained during the session in Honolulu, >>the inability to deal with large numbers is an issue mainly for >>JavaScript that uses IEEE double float as the only numeric type. Juergen >>also mentioned via jabber that he knew about a JSON parser written for C >>that had the same problem. >> >>Anyway, I think it's worthwhile to consider pros and cons of introducing >>an ugly CLR for 64-bit numbers and imposing more work on implementations >>that could normally expect obtaining such numbers straight from a sound >>JSON parser. > > > Isn't JavaScript support a primary concern? While apps using RESTCONF > would likely be programmed in other languages, let's not forget about > web-based interfaces...or what the "JS" in JSON stands for. Yes, that's what Carsten said. If we conclude that the role of JavaScript in the NETCONF/RESTCONF ecosystem is important, then probably there is currently no way other than encoding 64-bit numbers as strings. By the way, JSON WG tries to avoid interpreting "JS" as JavaScript. Lada > > Thanks, > Kent > -- Ladislav Lhotka, CZ.NIC Labs PGP Key ID: E74E8C0C From nobody Wed Nov 19 00:45:40 2014 Return-Path: X-Original-To: netmod@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: netmod@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3054B1A891A for ; Wed, 19 Nov 2014 00:45:39 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.9 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.9 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9] autolearn=ham Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 741AlAQylASN for ; Wed, 19 Nov 2014 00:45:37 -0800 (PST) Received: from trail.lhotka.name (trail.lhotka.name [77.48.224.143]) (using TLSv1.1 with cipher AECDH-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id A7FE41A1BE7 for ; Wed, 19 Nov 2014 00:45:36 -0800 (PST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by trail.lhotka.name (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2D2835406F1; Wed, 19 Nov 2014 09:45:35 +0100 (CET) Received: from trail.lhotka.name ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (trail.lhotka.name [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id StIw7XbbF1kX; Wed, 19 Nov 2014 09:45:31 +0100 (CET) Received: from localhost (unknown [195.113.220.254]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by trail.lhotka.name (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 02961540154; Wed, 19 Nov 2014 09:45:30 +0100 (CET) From: Ladislav Lhotka To: Phil Shafer , Juergen Schoenwaelder In-Reply-To: <201411181950.sAIJoxdg080541@idle.juniper.net> References: <201411181950.sAIJoxdg080541@idle.juniper.net> User-Agent: Notmuch/0.18.1 (http://notmuchmail.org) Emacs/24.4.51.2 (x86_64-apple-darwin14.0.0) Date: Wed, 19 Nov 2014 09:45:29 +0100 Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Archived-At: http://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/netmod/5frAXbu6Puiko3q2Fdb0BmDdWsI Cc: "netmod@ietf.org" Subject: Re: [netmod] 64-bit numbers in JSON encoding X-BeenThere: netmod@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: NETMOD WG list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 19 Nov 2014 08:45:39 -0000 Phil Shafer writes: > Juergen Schoenwaelder writes: >>On Tue, Nov 18, 2014 at 06:09:57PM +0000, Kent Watsen wrote: >>> Isn't JavaScript support a primary concern? While apps using RESTCONF >>> would likely be programmed in other languages, let's not forget about >>> web-based interfaces...or what the "JS" in JSON stands for. > > Lauguages like XSLT have the same issue. Good that you mention it - it is in fact an issue for YANG as such. I just tested this leaf definition: leaf foo { type decimal64 { fraction-digits 18; } must ". = 1"; } When validating an instance via Schematron (or any compliant XPath implementation), this value will be found as valid: 1.0000000000000001 IMO this is a serious problem that could be misused as an attack vector. I wonder - shouldn't we address it in YANG 1.1? Lada > > http://www.w3.org/TR/xpath/#numbers > > 3.5 Numbers > > A number represents a floating-point number. A number can > have any double-precision 64-bit format IEEE 754 value [IEEE > 754]. > >>If we do not follow the I-JSON recommendations, we would have to >>declare in a very explicit way that an implementation is required to >>handle 64 bit signed and unsigned integers and that an implementation >>that does not do so is not compliant. > > I think this is the root of the problem. Our explicit rules would > not interact well with the normal encode/decode libraries for other > languages, which means one would be stuck reimplementing such logic, > or at best forking well-used libraries. There are bignum libraries, > but plumbing the json parser in javascript to use them would not > be easy, and might have performance impacts since the parsing library > is likely native code. > > As much as I dislike it, quoting 64bit integers seems unavoidable. > > Thanks, > Phil > > _______________________________________________ > netmod mailing list > netmod@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/netmod -- Ladislav Lhotka, CZ.NIC Labs PGP Key ID: E74E8C0C From nobody Wed Nov 19 00:53:29 2014 Return-Path: X-Original-To: netmod@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: netmod@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6B1821A1B6A for ; Wed, 19 Nov 2014 00:53:26 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.144 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.144 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, HELO_EQ_DE=0.35, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, RP_MATCHES_RCVD=-0.594] autolearn=ham Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id UOD-6xQfWuSj for ; Wed, 19 Nov 2014 00:53:23 -0800 (PST) Received: from atlas3.jacobs-university.de (atlas3.jacobs-university.de [212.201.44.18]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher AECDH-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 8466A1A001D for ; Wed, 19 Nov 2014 00:53:23 -0800 (PST) Received: from localhost (demetrius5.irc-it.jacobs-university.de [10.70.0.222]) by atlas3.jacobs-university.de (Postfix) with ESMTP id 05F28A98; Wed, 19 Nov 2014 09:53:22 +0100 (CET) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at jacobs-university.de Received: from atlas3.jacobs-university.de ([10.70.0.220]) by localhost (demetrius5.jacobs-university.de [10.70.0.222]) (amavisd-new, port 10030) with ESMTP id n2OES58TbM32; Wed, 19 Nov 2014 09:53:08 +0100 (CET) Received: from hermes.jacobs-university.de (hermes.jacobs-university.de [212.201.44.23]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (Client CN "hermes.jacobs-university.de", Issuer "Jacobs University CA - G01" (verified OK)) by atlas3.jacobs-university.de (Postfix) with ESMTPS; Wed, 19 Nov 2014 09:53:21 +0100 (CET) Received: from localhost (demetrius1.jacobs-university.de [212.201.44.46]) by hermes.jacobs-university.de (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0487420017; Wed, 19 Nov 2014 09:53:21 +0100 (CET) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at jacobs-university.de Received: from hermes.jacobs-university.de ([212.201.44.23]) by localhost (demetrius1.jacobs-university.de [212.201.44.32]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id kxdTUoz4UmFr; Wed, 19 Nov 2014 09:53:20 +0100 (CET) Received: from elstar.local (elstar.jacobs.jacobs-university.de [10.50.231.133]) by hermes.jacobs-university.de (Postfix) with ESMTP id A523320013; Wed, 19 Nov 2014 09:53:19 +0100 (CET) Received: by elstar.local (Postfix, from userid 501) id E99B42FA4BDD; Wed, 19 Nov 2014 09:53:18 +0100 (CET) Date: Wed, 19 Nov 2014 09:53:18 +0100 From: Juergen Schoenwaelder To: Phil Shafer Message-ID: <20141119085318.GA91305@elstar.local> Mail-Followup-To: Phil Shafer , Kent Watsen , "netmod@ietf.org" References: <20141118193526.GA89238@elstar.local> <201411181950.sAIJoxdg080541@idle.juniper.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <201411181950.sAIJoxdg080541@idle.juniper.net> User-Agent: Mutt/1.4.2.3i Archived-At: http://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/netmod/exdRh3kzc97oeDiyWRIBiCZtSUY Cc: "netmod@ietf.org" Subject: Re: [netmod] 64-bit numbers in JSON encoding X-BeenThere: netmod@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list Reply-To: Juergen Schoenwaelder List-Id: NETMOD WG list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 19 Nov 2014 08:53:26 -0000 On Tue, Nov 18, 2014 at 02:50:59PM -0500, Phil Shafer wrote: > > >If we do not follow the I-JSON recommendations, we would have to > >declare in a very explicit way that an implementation is required to > >handle 64 bit signed and unsigned integers and that an implementation > >that does not do so is not compliant. > > I think this is the root of the problem. Our explicit rules would > not interact well with the normal encode/decode libraries for other > languages, which means one would be stuck reimplementing such logic, > or at best forking well-used libraries. There are bignum libraries, > but plumbing the json parser in javascript to use them would not > be easy, and might have performance impacts since the parsing library > is likely native code. > > As much as I dislike it, quoting 64bit integers seems unavoidable. I think there are two things to distinguish here. - The first one is the choice of JSON libraries and whether they do support 64 bit signed/unsigned integers. - The second is what you do once you have to deal with 64 bit signed/unsigned numbers. Shipping 64bit integers as strings helps perhaps with the first problem (if you are stuck with a JSON library that does not support 64 bit signed/unsigned integers). For the second issue, you most likely need some support for 64 bit signed/unsigned integer arithmetic, regardless whether the JSON encoding was a string or a number. And it might be that for a number of applications, the price for the second may be higher than for the first. Of course, if all your application does is to show raw data to a human, then the second may not be an issue. But then, showing a single counter reading is almost always pretty useless. /js -- Juergen Schoenwaelder Jacobs University Bremen gGmbH Phone: +49 421 200 3587 Campus Ring 1, 28759 Bremen, Germany Fax: +49 421 200 3103 From nobody Wed Nov 19 00:55:05 2014 Return-Path: X-Original-To: netmod@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: netmod@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id C47081A0119 for ; Wed, 19 Nov 2014 00:55:03 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.245 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.245 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, HELO_EQ_CZ=0.445, HOST_EQ_CZ=0.904, RP_MATCHES_RCVD=-0.594] autolearn=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id B-KOudKlCbig for ; Wed, 19 Nov 2014 00:55:02 -0800 (PST) Received: from mail.nic.cz (mail.nic.cz [IPv6:2001:1488:800:400::400]) (using TLSv1 with cipher ADH-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 6F3BA1A001D for ; Wed, 19 Nov 2014 00:55:02 -0800 (PST) Received: from [192.168.1.108] (unknown [195.113.220.254]) by mail.nic.cz (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id EACDE1411CE for ; Wed, 19 Nov 2014 09:54:59 +0100 (CET) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=simple/simple; d=nic.cz; s=default; t=1416387300; bh=/3VI6u2Pg6qUuXm3Z7jw5SYnDGn4PpaXi/FNDuB8AkQ=; h=From:Content-Type:Content-Transfer-Encoding:Subject:Message-Id: Date:To:Mime-Version; b=JuPc+iUK4O9VQR7Khc+FuvYILNUYksqOVwWY+iYLdmP/GzGawyVEGgS2DogCMXsiX HNipUG+3FI/SrlAs5ldcOTuKP+NhvA5cTp2IaJnrPCp1Goj1E11ga0cINzu4gvRZD2 KW15O3t3LKvlktObomP4rZUqlQzIYszOykRU8Lug= From: Ladislav Lhotka Content-Type: text/plain; charset=windows-1252 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Message-Id: Date: Wed, 19 Nov 2014 09:54:59 +0100 To: NETMOD Working Group Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 7.3 \(1878.6\)) X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.1878.6) X-Virus-Scanned: clamav-milter 0.98.1 at mail X-Virus-Status: Clean Archived-At: http://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/netmod/MAs0NlZlg_jzvoikF_B_FVTaSuM Subject: [netmod] base64 versus base64url X-BeenThere: netmod@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: NETMOD WG list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 19 Nov 2014 08:55:03 -0000 Hi, Balazs rightly pointed out that values of the binary type can = potentially appear in RESTCONF=92s Request-URI (in the =93point=94 = parameter), so it might be prudent to make the encoding URI-safe and use = base64url instead of base64. Could this change be done in YANG 1.1? Lada -- Ladislav Lhotka, CZ.NIC Labs PGP Key ID: E74E8C0C From nobody Wed Nov 19 01:05:33 2014 Return-Path: X-Original-To: netmod@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: netmod@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 270091ACFB4 for ; Wed, 19 Nov 2014 01:05:28 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.495 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.495 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, RP_MATCHES_RCVD=-0.594, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id F-D2rMtead3i for ; Wed, 19 Nov 2014 01:05:21 -0800 (PST) Received: from mail.tail-f.com (mail.tail-f.com [83.241.162.140]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 12B291ACFC8 for ; Wed, 19 Nov 2014 01:05:17 -0800 (PST) Received: from localhost (x15.tail-f.com [192.168.1.60]) by mail.tail-f.com (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 859C81280988; Wed, 19 Nov 2014 10:05:16 +0100 (CET) Date: Wed, 19 Nov 2014 10:05:16 +0100 (CET) Message-Id: <20141119.100516.32948596968355221.mbj@tail-f.com> To: lhotka@nic.cz From: Martin Bjorklund In-Reply-To: References: X-Mailer: Mew version 6.5 on Emacs 23.4 / Mule 6.0 (HANACHIRUSATO) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: Text/Plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 Archived-At: http://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/netmod/xAjquih8gt1KitQ-by2z8vTPoIU Cc: netmod@ietf.org Subject: Re: [netmod] base64 versus base64url X-BeenThere: netmod@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: NETMOD WG list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 19 Nov 2014 09:05:28 -0000 TGFkaXNsYXYgTGhvdGthIDxsaG90a2FAbmljLmN6PiB3cm90ZToNCj4gSGksDQo+IA0KPiBCYWxh enMgcmlnaHRseSBwb2ludGVkIG91dCB0aGF0IHZhbHVlcyBvZiB0aGUgYmluYXJ5IHR5cGUgY2Fu DQo+IHBvdGVudGlhbGx5IGFwcGVhciBpbiBSRVNUQ09ORuKAmXMgUmVxdWVzdC1VUkkgKGluIHRo ZSDigJxwb2ludOKAnQ0KPiBwYXJhbWV0ZXIpLCBzbyBpdCBtaWdodCBiZSBwcnVkZW50IHRvIG1h a2UgdGhlIGVuY29kaW5nIFVSSS1zYWZlIGFuZA0KPiB1c2UgYmFzZTY0dXJsIGluc3RlYWQgb2Yg YmFzZTY0LiBDb3VsZCB0aGlzIGNoYW5nZSBiZSBkb25lIGluIFlBTkcNCj4gMS4xPw0KDQpJIGRv bid0IHRoaW5rIGl0IGlzIHdvcnRoIGl0LiAgTm9ybWFsIHN0cmluZ3MgYXJlIHByb2JhYmx5IG11 Y2ggbW9yZQ0KY29tbW9uIGFzIGtleXMsIGFuZCB0aGV5IGNhbiBjZXJ0YWlubHkgY29udGFpbiBj aGFyYWN0ZXJzIHRoYXQgbmVlZCB0bw0KYmUgdXJsIGVuY29kZWQuICBTbyBzb2x2aW5nIHRoaXMg Zm9yIHRoaXMgcGFydGljdWxhciB0eXBlIGlzbid0IHdvcnRoDQppdC4NCg0KDQovbWFydGluDQo= From nobody Wed Nov 19 01:08:13 2014 Return-Path: X-Original-To: netmod@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: netmod@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6E4D81ACFE0 for ; Wed, 19 Nov 2014 01:08:10 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -0.945 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-0.945 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, HELO_EQ_CZ=0.445, HOST_EQ_CZ=0.904, MIME_8BIT_HEADER=0.3, RP_MATCHES_RCVD=-0.594] autolearn=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id Aqc6NMqAhv_T for ; Wed, 19 Nov 2014 01:08:08 -0800 (PST) Received: from mail.nic.cz (mail.nic.cz [IPv6:2001:1488:800:400::400]) (using TLSv1 with cipher ADH-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 37E791ACFCA for ; Wed, 19 Nov 2014 01:08:08 -0800 (PST) Received: from [192.168.1.108] (unknown [195.113.220.254]) by mail.nic.cz (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id A55D213FAF1; Wed, 19 Nov 2014 10:08:06 +0100 (CET) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=simple/simple; d=nic.cz; s=default; t=1416388086; bh=Ce3dRCh8K2EPsNnDq4NOy5sQv7MMm/Y50BRV6qvI2Dk=; h=Content-Type:Mime-Version:Subject:From:In-Reply-To:Date:Cc: Content-Transfer-Encoding:Message-Id:References:To; b=RiLdfX6jeuxc0JrnVg6SzlElKfSx/XOPjLpQVzFnyAgN2Ae+skef5Jd+S1h8Hkuat Ibfbmy6Xr2i8csZ59VBifyO3f/ifu/eikAh124NuQ6hubkj4U7dYvyH4/G9SB+UfZi QjV1/+3JplylNxwQylZFUSioNsRWM95w+nftriuE= Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 7.3 \(1878.6\)) From: Ladislav Lhotka In-Reply-To: <20141119085318.GA91305@elstar.local> Date: Wed, 19 Nov 2014 10:08:06 +0100 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Message-Id: References: <20141118193526.GA89238@elstar.local> <201411181950.sAIJoxdg080541@idle.juniper.net> <20141119085318.GA91305@elstar.local> To: =?iso-8859-1?Q?J=FCrgen_Sch=F6nw=E4lder?= X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.1878.6) X-Virus-Scanned: clamav-milter 0.98.1 at mail X-Virus-Status: Clean Archived-At: http://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/netmod/PAHTcjl9OrzDEMI1pbAi5MtKKdM Cc: "netmod@ietf.org" Subject: Re: [netmod] 64-bit numbers in JSON encoding X-BeenThere: netmod@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: NETMOD WG list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 19 Nov 2014 09:08:10 -0000 On 19 Nov 2014, at 09:53, Juergen Schoenwaelder = wrote: > On Tue, Nov 18, 2014 at 02:50:59PM -0500, Phil Shafer wrote: >>=20 >>> If we do not follow the I-JSON recommendations, we would have to >>> declare in a very explicit way that an implementation is required to >>> handle 64 bit signed and unsigned integers and that an = implementation >>> that does not do so is not compliant. >>=20 >> I think this is the root of the problem. Our explicit rules would >> not interact well with the normal encode/decode libraries for other >> languages, which means one would be stuck reimplementing such logic, >> or at best forking well-used libraries. There are bignum libraries, >> but plumbing the json parser in javascript to use them would not >> be easy, and might have performance impacts since the parsing library >> is likely native code. >>=20 >> As much as I dislike it, quoting 64bit integers seems unavoidable. >=20 > I think there are two things to distinguish here. >=20 > - The first one is the choice of JSON libraries and whether they do > support 64 bit signed/unsigned integers. >=20 > - The second is what you do once you have to deal with 64 bit > signed/unsigned numbers. >=20 > Shipping 64bit integers as strings helps perhaps with the first > problem (if you are stuck with a JSON library that does not support 64 > bit signed/unsigned integers). For the second issue, you most likely > need some support for 64 bit signed/unsigned integer arithmetic, > regardless whether the JSON encoding was a string or a number. It would seem GMP (http://gmplib.org) could solve the second issue. = These benchmarks are rather impressive: http://www.wilfred.me.uk/blog/2014/10/20/the-fastest-bigint-in-the-west/ Lada >=20 > And it might be that for a number of applications, the price for the > second may be higher than for the first. Of course, if all your > application does is to show raw data to a human, then the second may > not be an issue. But then, showing a single counter reading is almost > always pretty useless. >=20 > /js >=20 > --=20 > Juergen Schoenwaelder Jacobs University Bremen gGmbH > Phone: +49 421 200 3587 Campus Ring 1, 28759 Bremen, Germany > Fax: +49 421 200 3103 >=20 > _______________________________________________ > netmod mailing list > netmod@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/netmod -- Ladislav Lhotka, CZ.NIC Labs PGP Key ID: E74E8C0C From nobody Wed Nov 19 01:15:33 2014 Return-Path: X-Original-To: netmod@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: netmod@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 494D41ACFEB for ; Wed, 19 Nov 2014 01:15:31 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -0.945 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-0.945 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, HELO_EQ_CZ=0.445, HOST_EQ_CZ=0.904, MIME_8BIT_HEADER=0.3, RP_MATCHES_RCVD=-0.594] autolearn=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id H5tZ9RsJEitw for ; Wed, 19 Nov 2014 01:15:30 -0800 (PST) Received: from mail.nic.cz (mail.nic.cz [IPv6:2001:1488:800:400::400]) (using TLSv1 with cipher ADH-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 2AABE1ACF8F for ; Wed, 19 Nov 2014 01:15:30 -0800 (PST) Received: from [192.168.1.108] (unknown [195.113.220.254]) by mail.nic.cz (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id B48A813F853; Wed, 19 Nov 2014 10:15:28 +0100 (CET) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=simple/simple; d=nic.cz; s=default; t=1416388528; bh=mAspTWs+l6WDLkByvSv4S8LDPuO64ZmP8x7f7W/5umE=; h=Content-Type:Mime-Version:Subject:From:In-Reply-To:Date:Cc: Content-Transfer-Encoding:Message-Id:References:To; b=p149tQhXn+NkfV6eM2JCO63quUCAEIZelzYK5PATC4Kmcr71k8FeP0ZtfBO6vzsRO 7Ga/2VeULjZEcqCdi4a2Mby6sdFSn9mcEqV2yVhdvK+BioWIdLd86ycEgaGH0OyEto FtOpF9Az+CXMYkpOElMyyH51y/sOLwbsrw+8Ejvs= Content-Type: text/plain; charset=windows-1252 Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 7.3 \(1878.6\)) From: Ladislav Lhotka In-Reply-To: <20141119.100516.32948596968355221.mbj@tail-f.com> Date: Wed, 19 Nov 2014 10:15:28 +0100 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Message-Id: <01C36BCB-3942-4732-9A37-04315B5F2A0A@nic.cz> References: <20141119.100516.32948596968355221.mbj@tail-f.com> To: =?windows-1252?Q?Martin_Bj=F6rklund?= X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.1878.6) X-Virus-Scanned: clamav-milter 0.98.1 at mail X-Virus-Status: Clean Archived-At: http://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/netmod/Ej4aIm0pwTKXnOuYzS7V8zc9goM Cc: netmod@ietf.org Subject: Re: [netmod] base64 versus base64url X-BeenThere: netmod@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: NETMOD WG list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 19 Nov 2014 09:15:31 -0000 On 19 Nov 2014, at 10:05, Martin Bjorklund wrote: > Ladislav Lhotka wrote: >> Hi, >>=20 >> Balazs rightly pointed out that values of the binary type can >> potentially appear in RESTCONF=92s Request-URI (in the =93point=94 >> parameter), so it might be prudent to make the encoding URI-safe and >> use base64url instead of base64. Could this change be done in YANG >> 1.1? >=20 > I don't think it is worth it. Normal strings are probably much more > common as keys, and they can certainly contain characters that need to > be url encoded. So solving this for this particular type isn't worth > it. Not for normal use, I agree, but don=92t forget about bad guys who might = put it somewhere intentionally as a Trojan horse. I don=92t see any = significant compatibility issue if this gap is closed in YANG 1.1. Lada >=20 >=20 > /martin -- Ladislav Lhotka, CZ.NIC Labs PGP Key ID: E74E8C0C From nobody Wed Nov 19 01:17:50 2014 Return-Path: X-Original-To: netmod@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: netmod@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id EFF5B1ACF90 for ; Wed, 19 Nov 2014 01:17:48 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.495 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.495 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, RP_MATCHES_RCVD=-0.594, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 8k2eWedixusF for ; Wed, 19 Nov 2014 01:17:47 -0800 (PST) Received: from mail.tail-f.com (mail.tail-f.com [83.241.162.140]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3D40A1A1A12 for ; Wed, 19 Nov 2014 01:17:47 -0800 (PST) Received: from localhost (x15.tail-f.com [192.168.1.60]) by mail.tail-f.com (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 7BD771280988; Wed, 19 Nov 2014 10:17:45 +0100 (CET) Date: Wed, 19 Nov 2014 10:17:45 +0100 (CET) Message-Id: <20141119.101745.2177484091559539160.mbj@tail-f.com> To: phil@juniper.net From: Martin Bjorklund In-Reply-To: <201411190238.sAJ2c75h085050@idle.juniper.net> References: <201411190238.sAJ2c75h085050@idle.juniper.net> X-Mailer: Mew version 6.5 on Emacs 23.4 / Mule 6.0 (HANACHIRUSATO) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: Text/Plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Archived-At: http://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/netmod/w4CSkQIiteoDGoz_JTKsGkNtMzY Cc: netmod@ietf.org Subject: Re: [netmod] review of draft-bierman-netmod-yang-conformance-04 X-BeenThere: netmod@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: NETMOD WG list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 19 Nov 2014 09:17:49 -0000 Hi, Phil Shafer wrote: > Here's my review of draft-bierman-netmod-yang-conformance-04: > > Section 3 implies there are problems, but the only ones it > lists are strawmen. I agree. For YANG 1.1, we have been discussing moving conformance out of the base document, and put it in a separate document. IMO this would be a new document, with some text/ideas from draft-bierman-netmod-yang-conformance, some from restconf (ietf-yang-library) and some new text. Specifically, I think section 6 and possibly 5 (*) should be re-used from this document. (*) section 5 might be needed unless we make include-by revision mandatory. But I think I am the only one that thinks that would be a good solution. > Similarly, implementing a module that imports a second module is > _not_ the same thing as implementing that second module. +1. A lot of the confusion comes from this. Obviously, the spec is not clear on this - it doesn't specify what it means to "implement" a module. In your argument below you miss the fact that import-by revision is not mandatory. As long as it is not mandatory, the rules cannot depend on it being used. If it was mandatory, some of these problems would go away - but we would have other problems. Also, remember that a module can import for other reasons than using typedefs/groupings etc. Suppose you have this: module a { revision 2014-04-01; container x; } module a { revision 2014-05-01; container x; container y; } module b { import a { revision-date 2014-04-01; prefix a; } augment /a:x { ... } } module c { import a { revision-date 2014-05-01; prefix a; } augment /a:y { ... } } It must be ok to advertise b and a@2014-05-01. [...] > The idea of lock-step revision updates is unworkable in any sort > of distributed development arena, including the IETF and most > vendors. I think everyone agrees w/ this. But this also imposes a problem for import-by revision - if all your modules (can be > 100) use import-by revision, updating them for a new version of your product becomes a tedious, error-prone and administrative complicated manual task. A very simple alternative would be to not allow updated typedefs and groupings at all. /martin From nobody Wed Nov 19 01:19:45 2014 Return-Path: X-Original-To: netmod@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: netmod@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id C27C01ACF90 for ; Wed, 19 Nov 2014 01:19:42 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.144 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.144 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, HELO_EQ_DE=0.35, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, RP_MATCHES_RCVD=-0.594] autolearn=ham Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id oP4GSStfLL2I for ; Wed, 19 Nov 2014 01:19:41 -0800 (PST) Received: from atlas3.jacobs-university.de (atlas3.jacobs-university.de [212.201.44.18]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher AECDH-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id CA9F91A1A12 for ; Wed, 19 Nov 2014 01:19:40 -0800 (PST) Received: from localhost (demetrius5.irc-it.jacobs-university.de [10.70.0.222]) by atlas3.jacobs-university.de (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5D6318D2; Wed, 19 Nov 2014 10:19:39 +0100 (CET) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at jacobs-university.de Received: from atlas3.jacobs-university.de ([10.70.0.220]) by localhost (demetrius5.jacobs-university.de [10.70.0.222]) (amavisd-new, port 10030) with ESMTP id 0fOe6UsKwJ-1; Wed, 19 Nov 2014 10:19:25 +0100 (CET) Received: from hermes.jacobs-university.de (hermes.jacobs-university.de [212.201.44.23]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (Client CN "hermes.jacobs-university.de", Issuer "Jacobs University CA - G01" (verified OK)) by atlas3.jacobs-university.de (Postfix) with ESMTPS; Wed, 19 Nov 2014 10:19:38 +0100 (CET) Received: from localhost (demetrius3.jacobs-university.de [212.201.44.48]) by hermes.jacobs-university.de (Postfix) with ESMTP id F39D92002C; Wed, 19 Nov 2014 10:19:37 +0100 (CET) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at jacobs-university.de Received: from hermes.jacobs-university.de ([212.201.44.23]) by localhost (demetrius3.jacobs-university.de [212.201.44.32]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id aG5yCrsC3X6B; Wed, 19 Nov 2014 10:19:36 +0100 (CET) Received: from elstar.local (elstar.jacobs.jacobs-university.de [10.50.231.133]) by hermes.jacobs-university.de (Postfix) with ESMTP id 904CF20013; Wed, 19 Nov 2014 10:19:36 +0100 (CET) Received: by elstar.local (Postfix, from userid 501) id E82C32FA4C3C; Wed, 19 Nov 2014 10:19:35 +0100 (CET) Date: Wed, 19 Nov 2014 10:19:35 +0100 From: Juergen Schoenwaelder To: Ladislav Lhotka Message-ID: <20141119091935.GA91408@elstar.local> Mail-Followup-To: Ladislav Lhotka , Martin Bjorklund , netmod@ietf.org References: <546B7A41.7050602@hq.sk> <20141118202805.GA89320@elstar.local> <20141118.215918.891334686283901715.mbj@tail-f.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: User-Agent: Mutt/1.4.2.3i Archived-At: http://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/netmod/x114RU5dTogUucNGOCWi_STUnbQ Cc: netmod@ietf.org Subject: Re: [netmod] instence-identifier in JSON X-BeenThere: netmod@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list Reply-To: Juergen Schoenwaelder List-Id: NETMOD WG list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 19 Nov 2014 09:19:43 -0000 On Wed, Nov 19, 2014 at 09:08:03AM +0100, Ladislav Lhotka wrote: > > > > I agree with this, and in hindsight we should have picked a different > > encoding for i-i (and identityrefs) in YANG. > > Right. The particular form of i-i as defined in RFC 6020 probably follows > from two factors: > > - encoding of namespaces in XML - however, the URI/prefix duality was > identified as one of serious problems of XML [1]. > > - in XPath 1.0, all QNames have to have explicit prefixes - this problem > was fixed in XPath 2.0. > > > > > But here we are and we need to do something for JSON to work. > > ... and we needn't necessarily repeat XML mistakes. Lets keep things straight. The XML serialization of YANG defined data works. I hope we can all agree to that. If we create additional _encodings_, I think we have to make them work in terms of interoperability and coverage. RFC 6020 makes assumptions in several places that the encoding is XML or it is using XML's notion of namespaces. If we want to support multiple encodings, I think we need to define the interface of YANG to the encoding systems so that we can preserve consistency and we know how conversions can be carried out. A YANG XML instance identifier that is different form a YANG JSON instance identifier that is different from a YANG CBOR instance identifier can't really be the direction to go for. Add to this RESTCONF resource identifiers and CORECONF resource identifiers that are again different and confusion will be there. Lets also keep in mind that data models like ietf-netconf-acm.yang assume that a node-instance-identifier is a subset of yang:xpath1.0. Years ago, I worked on SMIng and trying to support different naming systems led to major problems. We are on a slippery slope to get there again. As technical conributor, I believe YANG should have a single naming system and not allow encodings to create their own naming systems. /js -- Juergen Schoenwaelder Jacobs University Bremen gGmbH Phone: +49 421 200 3587 Campus Ring 1, 28759 Bremen, Germany Fax: +49 421 200 3103 From nobody Wed Nov 19 01:23:41 2014 Return-Path: X-Original-To: netmod@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: netmod@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1FC401ACF8F for ; Wed, 19 Nov 2014 01:23:40 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.495 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.495 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, RP_MATCHES_RCVD=-0.594, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id F1uV16sATXtZ for ; Wed, 19 Nov 2014 01:23:38 -0800 (PST) Received: from mail.tail-f.com (mail.tail-f.com [83.241.162.140]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 77FDF1ACFD1 for ; Wed, 19 Nov 2014 01:23:38 -0800 (PST) Received: from localhost (x15.tail-f.com [192.168.1.60]) by mail.tail-f.com (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id B267D1280988; Wed, 19 Nov 2014 10:23:37 +0100 (CET) Date: Wed, 19 Nov 2014 10:23:37 +0100 (CET) Message-Id: <20141119.102337.1863838456346594585.mbj@tail-f.com> To: j.schoenwaelder@jacobs-university.de From: Martin Bjorklund In-Reply-To: <20141119091935.GA91408@elstar.local> References: <20141118.215918.891334686283901715.mbj@tail-f.com> <20141119091935.GA91408@elstar.local> X-Mailer: Mew version 6.5 on Emacs 23.4 / Mule 6.0 (HANACHIRUSATO) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: Text/Plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Archived-At: http://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/netmod/00zTwrHkZvFnSgzYlgqhk0I8m9Q Cc: netmod@ietf.org Subject: Re: [netmod] instence-identifier in JSON X-BeenThere: netmod@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: NETMOD WG list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 19 Nov 2014 09:23:40 -0000 Juergen Schoenwaelder wrote: > On Wed, Nov 19, 2014 at 09:08:03AM +0100, Ladislav Lhotka wrote: > > > > > > I agree with this, and in hindsight we should have picked a different > > > encoding for i-i (and identityrefs) in YANG. > > > > Right. The particular form of i-i as defined in RFC 6020 probably follows > > from two factors: > > > > - encoding of namespaces in XML - however, the URI/prefix duality was > > identified as one of serious problems of XML [1]. > > > > - in XPath 1.0, all QNames have to have explicit prefixes - this problem > > was fixed in XPath 2.0. > > > > > > > > But here we are and we need to do something for JSON to work. > > > > ... and we needn't necessarily repeat XML mistakes. > > Lets keep things straight. The XML serialization of YANG defined data > works. I hope we can all agree to that. > > If we create additional _encodings_, I think we have to make them work > in terms of interoperability and coverage. RFC 6020 makes assumptions > in several places that the encoding is XML or it is using XML's notion > of namespaces. If we want to support multiple encodings, I think we > need to define the interface of YANG to the encoding systems so that > we can preserve consistency and we know how conversions can be carried > out. > > A YANG XML instance identifier that is different form a YANG JSON > instance identifier that is different from a YANG CBOR instance > identifier can't really be the direction to go for. Add to this > RESTCONF resource identifiers and CORECONF resource identifiers that > are again different and confusion will be there. Lets also keep in > mind that data models like ietf-netconf-acm.yang assume that a > node-instance-identifier is a subset of yang:xpath1.0. > > Years ago, I worked on SMIng and trying to support different naming > systems led to major problems. We are on a slippery slope to get there > again. As technical conributor, I believe YANG should have a single > naming system and not allow encodings to create their own naming > systems. So what is your proposal? /martin From nobody Wed Nov 19 01:31:03 2014 Return-Path: X-Original-To: netmod@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: netmod@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id DD9891ACFCC for ; Wed, 19 Nov 2014 01:31:01 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.144 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.144 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, HELO_EQ_DE=0.35, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, RP_MATCHES_RCVD=-0.594] autolearn=ham Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id EVtero8gYdRQ for ; Wed, 19 Nov 2014 01:31:00 -0800 (PST) Received: from atlas3.jacobs-university.de (atlas3.jacobs-university.de [212.201.44.18]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher AECDH-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id DA01A1A891A for ; Wed, 19 Nov 2014 01:30:58 -0800 (PST) Received: from localhost (demetrius5.irc-it.jacobs-university.de [10.70.0.222]) by atlas3.jacobs-university.de (Postfix) with ESMTP id A867DE53; Wed, 19 Nov 2014 10:30:57 +0100 (CET) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at jacobs-university.de Received: from atlas3.jacobs-university.de ([10.70.0.220]) by localhost (demetrius5.jacobs-university.de [10.70.0.222]) (amavisd-new, port 10030) with ESMTP id cghcAKJ37i55; Wed, 19 Nov 2014 10:30:44 +0100 (CET) Received: from hermes.jacobs-university.de (hermes.jacobs-university.de [212.201.44.23]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (Client CN "hermes.jacobs-university.de", Issuer "Jacobs University CA - G01" (verified OK)) by atlas3.jacobs-university.de (Postfix) with ESMTPS; Wed, 19 Nov 2014 10:30:56 +0100 (CET) Received: from localhost (demetrius2.jacobs-university.de [212.201.44.47]) by hermes.jacobs-university.de (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9C01220013; Wed, 19 Nov 2014 10:30:56 +0100 (CET) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at jacobs-university.de Received: from hermes.jacobs-university.de ([212.201.44.23]) by localhost (demetrius2.jacobs-university.de [212.201.44.32]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id wQ5z2GS7hJPL; Wed, 19 Nov 2014 10:28:19 +0100 (CET) Received: from elstar.local (elstar.jacobs.jacobs-university.de [10.50.231.133]) by hermes.jacobs-university.de (Postfix) with ESMTP id 39F1B20017; Wed, 19 Nov 2014 10:30:55 +0100 (CET) Received: by elstar.local (Postfix, from userid 501) id 2C7D02FA4CC0; Wed, 19 Nov 2014 10:30:55 +0100 (CET) Date: Wed, 19 Nov 2014 10:30:55 +0100 From: Juergen Schoenwaelder To: Ladislav Lhotka Message-ID: <20141119093055.GA91496@elstar.local> Mail-Followup-To: Ladislav Lhotka , Phil Shafer , "netmod@ietf.org" References: <20141118193526.GA89238@elstar.local> <201411181950.sAIJoxdg080541@idle.juniper.net> <20141119085318.GA91305@elstar.local> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: User-Agent: Mutt/1.4.2.3i Archived-At: http://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/netmod/MoaLfvgIVn8w6yfNQg8FSscTKPI Cc: "netmod@ietf.org" Subject: Re: [netmod] 64-bit numbers in JSON encoding X-BeenThere: netmod@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list Reply-To: Juergen Schoenwaelder List-Id: NETMOD WG list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 19 Nov 2014 09:31:02 -0000 On Wed, Nov 19, 2014 at 10:08:06AM +0100, Ladislav Lhotka wrote: > > On 19 Nov 2014, at 09:53, Juergen Schoenwaelder wrote: > > > On Tue, Nov 18, 2014 at 02:50:59PM -0500, Phil Shafer wrote: > >> > >>> If we do not follow the I-JSON recommendations, we would have to > >>> declare in a very explicit way that an implementation is required to > >>> handle 64 bit signed and unsigned integers and that an implementation > >>> that does not do so is not compliant. > >> > >> I think this is the root of the problem. Our explicit rules would > >> not interact well with the normal encode/decode libraries for other > >> languages, which means one would be stuck reimplementing such logic, > >> or at best forking well-used libraries. There are bignum libraries, > >> but plumbing the json parser in javascript to use them would not > >> be easy, and might have performance impacts since the parsing library > >> is likely native code. > >> > >> As much as I dislike it, quoting 64bit integers seems unavoidable. > > > > I think there are two things to distinguish here. > > > > - The first one is the choice of JSON libraries and whether they do > > support 64 bit signed/unsigned integers. > > > > - The second is what you do once you have to deal with 64 bit > > signed/unsigned numbers. > > > > Shipping 64bit integers as strings helps perhaps with the first > > problem (if you are stuck with a JSON library that does not support 64 > > bit signed/unsigned integers). For the second issue, you most likely > > need some support for 64 bit signed/unsigned integer arithmetic, > > regardless whether the JSON encoding was a string or a number. > > It would seem GMP (http://gmplib.org) could solve the second issue. These benchmarks are rather impressive: > > http://www.wilfred.me.uk/blog/2014/10/20/the-fastest-bigint-in-the-west/ > Lada, you seem to miss the point of my message. I did not claim that it can't be done right with sufficient effort. That said, I am not sure my web browser has a java interface for GMP - so doing it right in a web browser likely limits your options to a "slow" implementation. To be clear: I am afraid of applications that end up using doubles without anybody noticing that this is problematic until the numbers eventually hit the precision limit. A simple DDOS on a box to make its management application fail would be a disaster. My main concern is interoperability and robustness and I rate them higher than 'beauty'. This is where we often seem to differ. /js -- Juergen Schoenwaelder Jacobs University Bremen gGmbH Phone: +49 421 200 3587 Campus Ring 1, 28759 Bremen, Germany Fax: +49 421 200 3103 From nobody Wed Nov 19 01:32:41 2014 Return-Path: X-Original-To: netmod@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: netmod@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9066A1A1A12 for ; Wed, 19 Nov 2014 01:32:40 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.495 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.495 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, RP_MATCHES_RCVD=-0.594, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id O3CH5iaOawKp for ; Wed, 19 Nov 2014 01:32:39 -0800 (PST) Received: from mail.tail-f.com (mail.tail-f.com [83.241.162.140]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 34DBB1A0141 for ; Wed, 19 Nov 2014 01:32:39 -0800 (PST) Received: from localhost (x15.tail-f.com [192.168.1.60]) by mail.tail-f.com (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 7614E1280988; Wed, 19 Nov 2014 10:32:38 +0100 (CET) Date: Wed, 19 Nov 2014 10:32:38 +0100 (CET) Message-Id: <20141119.103238.1348117780468090218.mbj@tail-f.com> To: phil@juniper.net From: Martin Bjorklund In-Reply-To: <201411181937.sAIJbguL080247@idle.juniper.net> References: <201411181937.sAIJbguL080247@idle.juniper.net> X-Mailer: Mew version 6.5 on Emacs 23.4 / Mule 6.0 (HANACHIRUSATO) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: Text/Plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Archived-At: http://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/netmod/X-sDPQe_wNrIhU8ejB0a1sYInTs Cc: netmod@ietf.org Subject: [netmod] Y03: allow if-feature in refine (Was: YANG 1.1 virtual interim 2014-11-19) X-BeenThere: netmod@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: NETMOD WG list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 19 Nov 2014 09:32:40 -0000 Phil Shafer wrote: > * REVIEW :Y03: allow if-feature in refine > > No objection. > > Does this mean the 'refine' is done if that expression is true, > or that the refined target gets an new 'if-feature' statement? > Does this if-feature replace an existing if-feature under the > target or add to it? How does one remove an if-feature? This issue is in the REVIEW state, which means that the current draft has text addresing this issue. Please check the text and let me know if anything is unclear. /martin From nobody Wed Nov 19 01:34:16 2014 Return-Path: X-Original-To: netmod@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: netmod@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 64FB41A0141 for ; Wed, 19 Nov 2014 01:34:15 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -0.945 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-0.945 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, HELO_EQ_CZ=0.445, HOST_EQ_CZ=0.904, MIME_8BIT_HEADER=0.3, RP_MATCHES_RCVD=-0.594] autolearn=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 4Uuk9JN1P8FV for ; Wed, 19 Nov 2014 01:34:13 -0800 (PST) Received: from mail.nic.cz (mail.nic.cz [IPv6:2001:1488:800:400::400]) (using TLSv1 with cipher ADH-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 583AF1A0125 for ; Wed, 19 Nov 2014 01:34:13 -0800 (PST) Received: from [192.168.1.108] (unknown [195.113.220.254]) by mail.nic.cz (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id B9A45140A8E; Wed, 19 Nov 2014 10:34:11 +0100 (CET) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=simple/simple; d=nic.cz; s=default; t=1416389652; bh=2y2iDx9SgDmUQ0l8jtk0GQdOc9TAM6xqx23yG+/VU84=; h=Content-Type:Mime-Version:Subject:From:In-Reply-To:Date:Cc: Content-Transfer-Encoding:Message-Id:References:To; b=CgBGbSQkn7DeQpdiRjygPZPYbFLcZjFw+NCGWD34hKIpt8en1i5EEjXZlHA4n/MG1 04pmwBXDoPOaTwe6q0p+mGeh1ye/zXZrxDg/gXpcsp8kYwxX3yYF+eRTG+vt3cKeTB 4WiSUglwl3BGaHsZDrcsJVWJ5NQAWyEBSRYaM21Y= Content-Type: text/plain; charset=windows-1252 Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 7.3 \(1878.6\)) From: Ladislav Lhotka In-Reply-To: <20141119091935.GA91408@elstar.local> Date: Wed, 19 Nov 2014 10:34:10 +0100 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Message-Id: <076E2DCC-B64D-44B9-9C53-2A8CBE035BE4@nic.cz> References: <546B7A41.7050602@hq.sk> <20141118202805.GA89320@elstar.local> <20141118.215918.891334686283901715.mbj@tail-f.com> <20141119091935.GA91408@elstar.local> To: =?windows-1252?Q?J=FCrgen_Sch=F6nw=E4lder?= X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.1878.6) X-Virus-Scanned: clamav-milter 0.98.1 at mail X-Virus-Status: Clean Archived-At: http://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/netmod/5iwlvsk2iAnPkDCVms5yFriBuf4 Cc: netmod@ietf.org Subject: Re: [netmod] instence-identifier in JSON X-BeenThere: netmod@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: NETMOD WG list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 19 Nov 2014 09:34:15 -0000 On 19 Nov 2014, at 10:19, Juergen Schoenwaelder = wrote: > On Wed, Nov 19, 2014 at 09:08:03AM +0100, Ladislav Lhotka wrote: >>>=20 >>> I agree with this, and in hindsight we should have picked a = different >>> encoding for i-i (and identityrefs) in YANG. >>=20 >> Right. The particular form of i-i as defined in RFC 6020 probably = follows >> from two factors: >>=20 >> - encoding of namespaces in XML - however, the URI/prefix duality was >> identified as one of serious problems of XML [1]. >>=20 >> - in XPath 1.0, all QNames have to have explicit prefixes - this = problem >> was fixed in XPath 2.0. >>=20 >>>=20 >>> But here we are and we need to do something for JSON to work. >>=20 >> ... and we needn't necessarily repeat XML mistakes. >=20 > Lets keep things straight. The XML serialization of YANG defined data > works. I hope we can all agree to that. It is too soon to agree on that. I wouldn=92t be surprised to see = implementations relying on, e.g., the =93inet=94 prefix to be always = bound to the ietf-inet-types, as it has been commonplace in other XML = code. >=20 > If we create additional _encodings_, I think we have to make them work > in terms of interoperability and coverage. RFC 6020 makes assumptions > in several places that the encoding is XML or it is using XML's notion > of namespaces. If we want to support multiple encodings, I think we > need to define the interface of YANG to the encoding systems so that > we can preserve consistency and we know how conversions can be carried > out. I think it wouldn=92t be too difficult to define YANG infoset = independently of any encoding and then add specific rules for each = supported encoding. The XML infoset was also defined ex post. >=20 > A YANG XML instance identifier that is different form a YANG JSON > instance identifier that is different from a YANG CBOR instance > identifier can't really be the direction to go for. Add to this > RESTCONF resource identifiers and CORECONF resource identifiers that > are again different and confusion will be there. Lets also keep in > mind that data models like ietf-netconf-acm.yang assume that a > node-instance-identifier is a subset of yang:xpath1.0. Instance-identifiers are mostly used as pointers in error messages and = such. I think it would be in fact seriously confusing to have a data = tree encoded using JSON conventions and I-Is as XPath 1.0. Lada >=20 > Years ago, I worked on SMIng and trying to support different naming > systems led to major problems. We are on a slippery slope to get there > again. As technical conributor, I believe YANG should have a single > naming system and not allow encodings to create their own naming > systems. >=20 > /js >=20 > --=20 > Juergen Schoenwaelder Jacobs University Bremen gGmbH > Phone: +49 421 200 3587 Campus Ring 1, 28759 Bremen, Germany > Fax: +49 421 200 3103 -- Ladislav Lhotka, CZ.NIC Labs PGP Key ID: E74E8C0C From nobody Wed Nov 19 01:37:42 2014 Return-Path: X-Original-To: netmod@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: netmod@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3A9981A0141 for ; Wed, 19 Nov 2014 01:37:39 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.144 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.144 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, HELO_EQ_DE=0.35, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, RP_MATCHES_RCVD=-0.594] autolearn=ham Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id zEnWX0qBR_9Z for ; Wed, 19 Nov 2014 01:37:37 -0800 (PST) Received: from atlas3.jacobs-university.de (atlas3.jacobs-university.de [212.201.44.18]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher AECDH-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 328011A0125 for ; Wed, 19 Nov 2014 01:37:37 -0800 (PST) Received: from localhost (demetrius5.irc-it.jacobs-university.de [10.70.0.222]) by atlas3.jacobs-university.de (Postfix) with ESMTP id 014636FD; Wed, 19 Nov 2014 10:37:36 +0100 (CET) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at jacobs-university.de Received: from atlas3.jacobs-university.de ([10.70.0.220]) by localhost (demetrius5.jacobs-university.de [10.70.0.222]) (amavisd-new, port 10030) with ESMTP id HbuawA2gcdOl; Wed, 19 Nov 2014 10:37:22 +0100 (CET) Received: from hermes.jacobs-university.de (hermes.jacobs-university.de [212.201.44.23]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (Client CN "hermes.jacobs-university.de", Issuer "Jacobs University CA - G01" (verified OK)) by atlas3.jacobs-university.de (Postfix) with ESMTPS; Wed, 19 Nov 2014 10:37:35 +0100 (CET) Received: from localhost (demetrius4.jacobs-university.de [212.201.44.49]) by hermes.jacobs-university.de (Postfix) with ESMTP id EC10920013; Wed, 19 Nov 2014 10:37:34 +0100 (CET) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at jacobs-university.de Received: from hermes.jacobs-university.de ([212.201.44.23]) by localhost (demetrius4.jacobs-university.de [212.201.44.32]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 34t6HFbbA6rM; Wed, 19 Nov 2014 10:37:34 +0100 (CET) Received: from elstar.local (elstar.jacobs.jacobs-university.de [10.50.231.133]) by hermes.jacobs-university.de (Postfix) with ESMTP id A647B2002C; Wed, 19 Nov 2014 10:37:32 +0100 (CET) Received: by elstar.local (Postfix, from userid 501) id 96D2D2FA4D2C; Wed, 19 Nov 2014 10:37:32 +0100 (CET) Date: Wed, 19 Nov 2014 10:37:32 +0100 From: Juergen Schoenwaelder To: Martin Bjorklund Message-ID: <20141119093732.GB91496@elstar.local> Mail-Followup-To: Martin Bjorklund , lhotka@nic.cz, netmod@ietf.org References: <20141118.215918.891334686283901715.mbj@tail-f.com> <20141119091935.GA91408@elstar.local> <20141119.102337.1863838456346594585.mbj@tail-f.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <20141119.102337.1863838456346594585.mbj@tail-f.com> User-Agent: Mutt/1.4.2.3i Archived-At: http://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/netmod/LF2InWDPUBp-gjcGbed7nRBpKUI Cc: netmod@ietf.org Subject: Re: [netmod] instence-identifier in JSON X-BeenThere: netmod@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list Reply-To: Juergen Schoenwaelder List-Id: NETMOD WG list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 19 Nov 2014 09:37:39 -0000 On Wed, Nov 19, 2014 at 10:23:37AM +0100, Martin Bjorklund wrote: > Juergen Schoenwaelder wrote: > > On Wed, Nov 19, 2014 at 09:08:03AM +0100, Ladislav Lhotka wrote: > > > > > > > > I agree with this, and in hindsight we should have picked a different > > > > encoding for i-i (and identityrefs) in YANG. > > > > > > Right. The particular form of i-i as defined in RFC 6020 probably follows > > > from two factors: > > > > > > - encoding of namespaces in XML - however, the URI/prefix duality was > > > identified as one of serious problems of XML [1]. > > > > > > - in XPath 1.0, all QNames have to have explicit prefixes - this problem > > > was fixed in XPath 2.0. > > > > > > > > > > > But here we are and we need to do something for JSON to work. > > > > > > ... and we needn't necessarily repeat XML mistakes. > > > > Lets keep things straight. The XML serialization of YANG defined data > > works. I hope we can all agree to that. > > > > If we create additional _encodings_, I think we have to make them work > > in terms of interoperability and coverage. RFC 6020 makes assumptions > > in several places that the encoding is XML or it is using XML's notion > > of namespaces. If we want to support multiple encodings, I think we > > need to define the interface of YANG to the encoding systems so that > > we can preserve consistency and we know how conversions can be carried > > out. > > > > A YANG XML instance identifier that is different form a YANG JSON > > instance identifier that is different from a YANG CBOR instance > > identifier can't really be the direction to go for. Add to this > > RESTCONF resource identifiers and CORECONF resource identifiers that > > are again different and confusion will be there. Lets also keep in > > mind that data models like ietf-netconf-acm.yang assume that a > > node-instance-identifier is a subset of yang:xpath1.0. > > > > Years ago, I worked on SMIng and trying to support different naming > > systems led to major problems. We are on a slippery slope to get there > > again. As technical conributor, I believe YANG should have a single > > naming system and not allow encodings to create their own naming > > systems. > > So what is your proposal? > Here is a proposal: We add a new issue to YANG 1.1 to define the interface between YANG and YANG encodings. This interface needs to define how the YANG type system interacts with type systems used by (typed) encodings. It also needs to define what the YANG naming system is. And then encodings have to stick to this interface. Yes, this is primarily a procedural answer. I do not have a detailed proposal for the various technical questions involved. That said, I strongly prefer a single YANG naming systems and a consistent way types are handled across encodings. /js -- Juergen Schoenwaelder Jacobs University Bremen gGmbH Phone: +49 421 200 3587 Campus Ring 1, 28759 Bremen, Germany Fax: +49 421 200 3103 From nobody Wed Nov 19 01:37:57 2014 Return-Path: X-Original-To: netmod@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: netmod@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7A8D91A1A40 for ; Wed, 19 Nov 2014 01:37:55 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.979 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.979 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, FM_FORGED_GMAIL=0.622, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW=-0.7, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id sq7sWNquOUsP for ; Wed, 19 Nov 2014 01:37:50 -0800 (PST) Received: from mail-qc0-f176.google.com (mail-qc0-f176.google.com [209.85.216.176]) (using TLSv1 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-RC4-SHA (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id A6AF51A891A for ; Wed, 19 Nov 2014 01:37:50 -0800 (PST) Received: by mail-qc0-f176.google.com with SMTP id i17so117397qcy.7 for ; Wed, 19 Nov 2014 01:37:49 -0800 (PST) X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20130820; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:in-reply-to:references:date :message-id:subject:from:to:cc:content-type; bh=9Xnk3M7sKTYqrUbOcVqiI23NkS6/wsrhQrZKvOGRw5k=; b=NxB11uFg3NtCvikf5LCXoTIfiIHhq1yoo9boM4VwFgnujuttAky/zJEZNMuTgBMy9S uKxphZhU2UnJZ0IGE/OIDUzbQOQ+hncUtuqOJnMS25xfwutY1TllKBqFdAGcng/Q0oRQ t1tdaa+8psYHn9Cz7zo/OGeTX800ZjB9Tc5bAw6oGNFlfG9h2ZwRvlExaElapAHEseqn zNGS2n173U2WHBBYat0j1IcHsh1UWfg/g6OykusrKwv2aVdyxHSggn1U3Rf/83NBn63R 66lt/vcaNp32z2cPfHM5rMqNwlGD6NO+Zj0qRvTGxKKgVu/fSZMCcgnGjLCrwlul14Zc lIqw== X-Gm-Message-State: ALoCoQn//d+Ow2YJfU2S3HtT5CINUW1/3Z4x5/aq37AHj1SQmmpKSSVBJuUlHsPu9Pox34MlKbLE MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Received: by 10.224.36.201 with SMTP id u9mr4409411qad.16.1416389869903; Wed, 19 Nov 2014 01:37:49 -0800 (PST) Received: by 10.140.37.52 with HTTP; Wed, 19 Nov 2014 01:37:49 -0800 (PST) In-Reply-To: <20141119.101745.2177484091559539160.mbj@tail-f.com> References: <201411190238.sAJ2c75h085050@idle.juniper.net> <20141119.101745.2177484091559539160.mbj@tail-f.com> Date: Wed, 19 Nov 2014 01:37:49 -0800 Message-ID: From: Andy Bierman To: Martin Bjorklund Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Archived-At: http://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/netmod/RW2a6orfGQpprvFXjq7nCDYysx8 Cc: "netmod@ietf.org" Subject: Re: [netmod] review of draft-bierman-netmod-yang-conformance-04 X-BeenThere: netmod@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: NETMOD WG list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 19 Nov 2014 09:37:55 -0000 Hi, In previous virtual interim meetings it was determined that not one single server implementation exists which allowed multiple revisions of the same module. So if import-by-revision is so great then why don't people use it? So if multiple revisions of a YANG module is so easy and so useful, then why isn't there at least 1 server that supports it? It is trivial to find examples of import-by-revision that are impossible to implement (e.g. foo is current is v1 and obsolete in v2) just as it is trivial to find examples that do work. Andy On Wed, Nov 19, 2014 at 1:17 AM, Martin Bjorklund wrote: > Hi, > > Phil Shafer wrote: >> Here's my review of draft-bierman-netmod-yang-conformance-04: >> >> Section 3 implies there are problems, but the only ones it >> lists are strawmen. > > I agree. > > For YANG 1.1, we have been discussing moving conformance out of the > base document, and put it in a separate document. IMO this would be a > new document, with some text/ideas from > draft-bierman-netmod-yang-conformance, some from restconf > (ietf-yang-library) and some new text. > > Specifically, I think section 6 and possibly 5 (*) should be re-used > from this document. > > (*) section 5 might be needed unless we make include-by revision > mandatory. But I think I am the only one that thinks that would be a > good solution. > > >> Similarly, implementing a module that imports a second module is >> _not_ the same thing as implementing that second module. > > +1. A lot of the confusion comes from this. Obviously, the spec is > not clear on this - it doesn't specify what it means to "implement" a > module. > > > In your argument below you miss the fact that import-by revision is > not mandatory. As long as it is not mandatory, the rules cannot > depend on it being used. If it was mandatory, some of these problems > would go away - but we would have other problems. Also, remember that a > module can import for other reasons than using typedefs/groupings etc. > > Suppose you have this: > > module a { > revision 2014-04-01; > container x; > } > module a { > revision 2014-05-01; > container x; > container y; > } > > module b { > import a { > revision-date 2014-04-01; > prefix a; > } > augment /a:x { ... } > } > > module c { > import a { > revision-date 2014-05-01; > prefix a; > } > augment /a:y { ... } > } > > It must be ok to advertise b and a@2014-05-01. > > [...] > >> The idea of lock-step revision updates is unworkable in any sort >> of distributed development arena, including the IETF and most >> vendors. > > I think everyone agrees w/ this. > > But this also imposes a problem for import-by revision - if all your > modules (can be > 100) use import-by revision, updating them for a new > version of your product becomes a tedious, error-prone and > administrative complicated manual task. > > > A very simple alternative would be to not allow updated typedefs and > groupings at all. > > > > /martin > > _______________________________________________ > netmod mailing list > netmod@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/netmod From nobody Wed Nov 19 01:43:59 2014 Return-Path: X-Original-To: netmod@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: netmod@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 48D841ACF99 for ; Wed, 19 Nov 2014 01:43:59 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.144 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.144 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, HELO_EQ_DE=0.35, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, RP_MATCHES_RCVD=-0.594] autolearn=ham Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id ohs1cy2N0ljU for ; Wed, 19 Nov 2014 01:43:57 -0800 (PST) Received: from atlas3.jacobs-university.de (atlas3.jacobs-university.de [212.201.44.18]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher AECDH-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 264461ACFD8 for ; Wed, 19 Nov 2014 01:43:47 -0800 (PST) Received: from localhost (demetrius5.irc-it.jacobs-university.de [10.70.0.222]) by atlas3.jacobs-university.de (Postfix) with ESMTP id EA001787; Wed, 19 Nov 2014 10:43:45 +0100 (CET) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at jacobs-university.de Received: from atlas3.jacobs-university.de ([10.70.0.220]) by localhost (demetrius5.jacobs-university.de [10.70.0.222]) (amavisd-new, port 10030) with ESMTP id OMZWuIZh17dT; Wed, 19 Nov 2014 10:43:32 +0100 (CET) Received: from hermes.jacobs-university.de (hermes.jacobs-university.de [212.201.44.23]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (Client CN "hermes.jacobs-university.de", Issuer "Jacobs University CA - G01" (verified OK)) by atlas3.jacobs-university.de (Postfix) with ESMTPS; Wed, 19 Nov 2014 10:43:45 +0100 (CET) Received: from localhost (demetrius1.jacobs-university.de [212.201.44.46]) by hermes.jacobs-university.de (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2F06120013; Wed, 19 Nov 2014 10:43:45 +0100 (CET) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at jacobs-university.de Received: from hermes.jacobs-university.de ([212.201.44.23]) by localhost (demetrius1.jacobs-university.de [212.201.44.32]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id Q3BxKdYcgtSC; Wed, 19 Nov 2014 10:43:44 +0100 (CET) Received: from elstar.local (elstar.jacobs.jacobs-university.de [10.50.231.133]) by hermes.jacobs-university.de (Postfix) with ESMTP id DD8E72002C; Wed, 19 Nov 2014 10:43:43 +0100 (CET) Received: by elstar.local (Postfix, from userid 501) id CFE002FA4D66; Wed, 19 Nov 2014 10:43:43 +0100 (CET) Date: Wed, 19 Nov 2014 10:43:43 +0100 From: Juergen Schoenwaelder To: Ladislav Lhotka Message-ID: <20141119094343.GC91496@elstar.local> Mail-Followup-To: Ladislav Lhotka , NETMOD Working Group References: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit In-Reply-To: User-Agent: Mutt/1.4.2.3i Archived-At: http://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/netmod/e_Fsf6lv6Z3NsMdaE8l6uGkaDGo Cc: NETMOD Working Group Subject: Re: [netmod] base64 versus base64url X-BeenThere: netmod@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list Reply-To: Juergen Schoenwaelder List-Id: NETMOD WG list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 19 Nov 2014 09:43:59 -0000 On Wed, Nov 19, 2014 at 09:54:59AM +0100, Ladislav Lhotka wrote: > Hi, > > Balazs rightly pointed out that values of the binary type can potentially appear in RESTCONF’s Request-URI (in the “point†parameter), so it might be prudent to make the encoding URI-safe and use base64url instead of base64. Could this change be done in YANG 1.1? > Lada, I do not think this would pass the backwards compatibility test. RFC 6020 says: 9.8.2. Lexical Representation Binary values are encoded with the base64 encoding scheme (see [RFC4648], Section 4). I do not think we can say that this is now something different. I agree with Martin that other YANG types may contain values that need url escaping as well. /js -- Juergen Schoenwaelder Jacobs University Bremen gGmbH Phone: +49 421 200 3587 Campus Ring 1, 28759 Bremen, Germany Fax: +49 421 200 3103 From nobody Wed Nov 19 01:46:56 2014 Return-Path: X-Original-To: netmod@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: netmod@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8174E1A00E7 for ; Wed, 19 Nov 2014 01:46:54 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.495 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.495 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, RP_MATCHES_RCVD=-0.594, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id f8C9TxKP2D5F for ; Wed, 19 Nov 2014 01:46:53 -0800 (PST) Received: from mail.tail-f.com (mail.tail-f.com [83.241.162.140]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id DA0ED1A1A40 for ; Wed, 19 Nov 2014 01:46:52 -0800 (PST) Received: from localhost (x15.tail-f.com [192.168.1.60]) by mail.tail-f.com (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 104AA1280988; Wed, 19 Nov 2014 10:46:52 +0100 (CET) Date: Wed, 19 Nov 2014 10:46:51 +0100 (CET) Message-Id: <20141119.104651.1930940910444913825.mbj@tail-f.com> To: phil@juniper.net From: Martin Bjorklund In-Reply-To: <201411181937.sAIJbguL080247@idle.juniper.net> References: <201411181937.sAIJbguL080247@idle.juniper.net> X-Mailer: Mew version 6.5 on Emacs 23.4 / Mule 6.0 (HANACHIRUSATO) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: Text/Plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Archived-At: http://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/netmod/aWi2zI3r6R2zjwjS3xJ13GRq1Gs Cc: netmod@ietf.org Subject: [netmod] Y09: optional keys (Was: YANG 1.1 virtual interim 2014-11-19) X-BeenThere: netmod@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: NETMOD WG list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 19 Nov 2014 09:46:54 -0000 Phil Shafer wrote: > * OPEN :Y09: introduce optional keys > > I don't understand the 'resolution' here. > > My concern is that optional keys make interaction with databases > more difficult. Keys are mandatory for most databases. Implementation detail. Most databases do not support hierarchical structures; yet we have that in YANG. > The usage of 'not(key)' in the second solution is not compatible > with xpath expressions [...] > not(optional-key) would be true when the value is a numeric zero > or a zero length string. Whoops. You are right. This would work: not(count(key)) - but looks extremely weird. > I would be against this change. Keeping keys mandatory is > simpler and more straight forward. Those wanting an optional > key can make a union type with a suitable 'missing' optional. That's what people are using currently - but it is an ugly workaround. This affects the end user of the system, who has to provide these "NULL" values. /martin From nobody Wed Nov 19 01:56:44 2014 Return-Path: X-Original-To: netmod@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: netmod@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 433301ACF94 for ; Wed, 19 Nov 2014 01:56:41 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.895 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.895 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, J_CHICKENPOX_45=0.6, RP_MATCHES_RCVD=-0.594, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id fCtE2KBM3_8a for ; Wed, 19 Nov 2014 01:56:40 -0800 (PST) Received: from mail.tail-f.com (mail.tail-f.com [83.241.162.140]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id DCA6C1A005C for ; Wed, 19 Nov 2014 01:56:39 -0800 (PST) Received: from localhost (x15.tail-f.com [192.168.1.60]) by mail.tail-f.com (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 16C081280988; Wed, 19 Nov 2014 10:56:39 +0100 (CET) Date: Wed, 19 Nov 2014 10:56:38 +0100 (CET) Message-Id: <20141119.105638.2215712330932058409.mbj@tail-f.com> To: phil@juniper.net From: Martin Bjorklund In-Reply-To: <201411181937.sAIJbguL080247@idle.juniper.net> References: <201411181937.sAIJbguL080247@idle.juniper.net> X-Mailer: Mew version 6.5 on Emacs 23.4 / Mule 6.0 (HANACHIRUSATO) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: Text/Plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Archived-At: http://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/netmod/ZWAy_FLtbmxYFT_6Tc2rpeBOWuQ Cc: netmod@ietf.org Subject: [netmod] Y10: restrictions on enums (Was: YANG 1.1 virtual interim 2014-11-19) X-BeenThere: netmod@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: NETMOD WG list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 19 Nov 2014 09:56:41 -0000 Phil Shafer wrote: > * VRFY :Y10: allow restrictions on enumerations > > This is needlessly confusing. The YANG looks like it's defining > a new type and the user is left to do the legwork to find out. > > Are you really looking for refinement for types? Seems like a > type is an atomic idea, not suitable for refinement. Types in general can be "refined": typedef port { type uint16; } typedef system-port { type port { range "0..1023"; } } It is only enumerations that cannot - this is the CLR we want to remove. > I would be against this change. It's confusing to the reader. > The same result can be done using a distinct type. Yes, that's the workaround. But that implies copy&paste, which is bad, and you loose the fact that the two types share semantics. /martin From nobody Wed Nov 19 02:01:27 2014 Return-Path: X-Original-To: netmod@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: netmod@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id DBFAE1A1A12 for ; Wed, 19 Nov 2014 02:01:25 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.495 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.495 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, RP_MATCHES_RCVD=-0.594, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id SX9utRXNUKz5 for ; Wed, 19 Nov 2014 02:01:21 -0800 (PST) Received: from mail.tail-f.com (mail.tail-f.com [83.241.162.140]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5A1AD1A005C for ; Wed, 19 Nov 2014 02:01:21 -0800 (PST) Received: from localhost (x15.tail-f.com [192.168.1.60]) by mail.tail-f.com (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 8A2221280988; Wed, 19 Nov 2014 11:01:20 +0100 (CET) Date: Wed, 19 Nov 2014 11:01:20 +0100 (CET) Message-Id: <20141119.110120.2290556297886380376.mbj@tail-f.com> To: phil@juniper.net From: Martin Bjorklund In-Reply-To: <201411181937.sAIJbguL080247@idle.juniper.net> References: <201411181937.sAIJbguL080247@idle.juniper.net> X-Mailer: Mew version 6.5 on Emacs 23.4 / Mule 6.0 (HANACHIRUSATO) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: Text/Plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Archived-At: http://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/netmod/dmAPoDqNLXikSpW-dT0X4em3eyg Cc: netmod@ietf.org Subject: [netmod] Y18: when context node (Was: YANG 1.1 virtual interim 2014-11-19) X-BeenThere: netmod@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: NETMOD WG list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 19 Nov 2014 10:01:26 -0000 Phil Shafer wrote: > * OPEN :Y18: fix "when" expression context node problem > > I think the problem is that the order in which various > leaf 'when' statements are resolved is not defined. No this is not the problem. The problem is that in this: leaf foo { when ../bar; ... } the node 'foo' needs to exist in order to evaluate the XPath expression - but if the expression evaluates to false it means the node doesn't exist! The proposed solution is to state that when the expression is evaluated, the node 'foo' exists. [a backwards-incompatible change would be to let the context node be the parent, but that would be highly confusing: leaf foo { when "bar"; must "../bar > 1"; ... } noone would ever get that right.] /martin From nobody Wed Nov 19 02:01:54 2014 Return-Path: X-Original-To: netmod@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: netmod@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 46A031A1A40 for ; Wed, 19 Nov 2014 02:01:52 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -0.945 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-0.945 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, HELO_EQ_CZ=0.445, HOST_EQ_CZ=0.904, MIME_8BIT_HEADER=0.3, RP_MATCHES_RCVD=-0.594] autolearn=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id BdfJEIb0xYIA for ; Wed, 19 Nov 2014 02:01:50 -0800 (PST) Received: from mail.nic.cz (mail.nic.cz [IPv6:2001:1488:800:400::400]) (using TLSv1 with cipher ADH-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id D36F91ACFB1 for ; Wed, 19 Nov 2014 02:01:41 -0800 (PST) Received: from [192.168.1.108] (unknown [195.113.220.254]) by mail.nic.cz (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 5204613F853; Wed, 19 Nov 2014 11:01:40 +0100 (CET) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=simple/simple; d=nic.cz; s=default; t=1416391300; bh=n6BWnyBbbcKJlx5IcBJL93PI6A5JL6S0e1Fw17kR7PI=; h=Content-Type:Mime-Version:Subject:From:In-Reply-To:Date:Cc: Content-Transfer-Encoding:Message-Id:References:To; b=v0+MmyZcQOirq8bckTVSvkmRxfxuHG9KAgOa6EIqp0OC9wr/FjxgENBThS/t+kNJO RnseNYGizzT1/srNWmTPduSLzgrf67SD/OBk+Zna1qBytUrki8SAEttBVlfkzilTPB oIc+ilUfjHYXJfGve5QBBONfR0eSSPlJe/2i52ZA= Content-Type: text/plain; charset=windows-1252 Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 7.3 \(1878.6\)) From: Ladislav Lhotka In-Reply-To: <20141119093055.GA91496@elstar.local> Date: Wed, 19 Nov 2014 11:01:39 +0100 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Message-Id: <60905C16-3A78-4E1E-9A06-B01B2B746012@nic.cz> References: <20141118193526.GA89238@elstar.local> <201411181950.sAIJoxdg080541@idle.juniper.net> <20141119085318.GA91305@elstar.local> <20141119093055.GA91496@elstar.local> To: =?windows-1252?Q?J=FCrgen_Sch=F6nw=E4lder?= X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.1878.6) X-Virus-Scanned: clamav-milter 0.98.1 at mail X-Virus-Status: Clean Archived-At: http://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/netmod/_kAaGdQXF_j4FXDBI3yDduREpBw Cc: "netmod@ietf.org" Subject: Re: [netmod] 64-bit numbers in JSON encoding X-BeenThere: netmod@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: NETMOD WG list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 19 Nov 2014 10:01:52 -0000 On 19 Nov 2014, at 10:30, Juergen Schoenwaelder = wrote: > On Wed, Nov 19, 2014 at 10:08:06AM +0100, Ladislav Lhotka wrote: >>=20 >> On 19 Nov 2014, at 09:53, Juergen Schoenwaelder = wrote: >>=20 >>> On Tue, Nov 18, 2014 at 02:50:59PM -0500, Phil Shafer wrote: >>>>=20 >>>>> If we do not follow the I-JSON recommendations, we would have to >>>>> declare in a very explicit way that an implementation is required = to >>>>> handle 64 bit signed and unsigned integers and that an = implementation >>>>> that does not do so is not compliant. >>>>=20 >>>> I think this is the root of the problem. Our explicit rules would >>>> not interact well with the normal encode/decode libraries for other >>>> languages, which means one would be stuck reimplementing such = logic, >>>> or at best forking well-used libraries. There are bignum = libraries, >>>> but plumbing the json parser in javascript to use them would not >>>> be easy, and might have performance impacts since the parsing = library >>>> is likely native code. >>>>=20 >>>> As much as I dislike it, quoting 64bit integers seems unavoidable. >>>=20 >>> I think there are two things to distinguish here. >>>=20 >>> - The first one is the choice of JSON libraries and whether they do >>> support 64 bit signed/unsigned integers. >>>=20 >>> - The second is what you do once you have to deal with 64 bit >>> signed/unsigned numbers. >>>=20 >>> Shipping 64bit integers as strings helps perhaps with the first >>> problem (if you are stuck with a JSON library that does not support = 64 >>> bit signed/unsigned integers). For the second issue, you most likely >>> need some support for 64 bit signed/unsigned integer arithmetic, >>> regardless whether the JSON encoding was a string or a number. >>=20 >> It would seem GMP (http://gmplib.org) could solve the second issue. = These benchmarks are rather impressive: >>=20 >> = http://www.wilfred.me.uk/blog/2014/10/20/the-fastest-bigint-in-the-west/ >>=20 >=20 > Lada, >=20 > you seem to miss the point of my message. I did not claim that it > can't be done right with sufficient effort. That said, I am not sure > my web browser has a java interface for GMP - so doing it right in a > web browser likely limits your options to a "slow" implementation. Well, you said =93number of applications=94, not =93my web browser=94. >=20 > To be clear: I am afraid of applications that end up using doubles > without anybody noticing that this is problematic until the numbers > eventually hit the precision limit. A simple DDOS on a box to make > its management application fail would be a disaster. I agree, but it is the first of your issues that creates this problem. = As soon as you can properly parse big numbers in the programming = language of choice, the rest is IMO not that difficult. >=20 > My main concern is interoperability and robustness and I rate them > higher than 'beauty'. This is where we often seem to differ. Note that I do agree on keeping 64-bit numbers as strings in JSON. The = problem is bigger than that, though, because such numbers are also = incompatible with XPath 1.0. Lada >=20 > /js >=20 > --=20 > Juergen Schoenwaelder Jacobs University Bremen gGmbH > Phone: +49 421 200 3587 Campus Ring 1, 28759 Bremen, Germany > Fax: +49 421 200 3103 -- Ladislav Lhotka, CZ.NIC Labs PGP Key ID: E74E8C0C From nobody Wed Nov 19 02:09:10 2014 Return-Path: X-Original-To: netmod@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: netmod@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 941561A005C for ; Wed, 19 Nov 2014 02:08:59 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.495 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.495 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, RP_MATCHES_RCVD=-0.594, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id WYxlVWyqtmWc for ; Wed, 19 Nov 2014 02:08:56 -0800 (PST) Received: from mail.tail-f.com (mail.tail-f.com [83.241.162.140]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 839B51ACF86 for ; Wed, 19 Nov 2014 02:08:56 -0800 (PST) Received: from localhost (x15.tail-f.com [192.168.1.60]) by mail.tail-f.com (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 3E4541280988; Wed, 19 Nov 2014 11:08:55 +0100 (CET) Date: Wed, 19 Nov 2014 11:08:55 +0100 (CET) Message-Id: <20141119.110855.1356925347503781104.mbj@tail-f.com> To: phil@juniper.net From: Martin Bjorklund In-Reply-To: <201411181937.sAIJbguL080247@idle.juniper.net> References: <201411181937.sAIJbguL080247@idle.juniper.net> X-Mailer: Mew version 6.5 on Emacs 23.4 / Mule 6.0 (HANACHIRUSATO) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: Text/Plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Archived-At: http://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/netmod/QMCgQW2qyCwnhW-p6ldcOUNxRzE Cc: netmod@ietf.org Subject: [netmod] Y25: enum numbering (Was: YANG 1.1 virtual interim 2014-11-19) X-BeenThere: netmod@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: NETMOD WG list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 19 Nov 2014 10:08:59 -0000 Phil Shafer wrote: > * OPEN :Y25: make enum numbering purely informative and optional > > There's no contraction. The rule makes it possible for > others to use these values, since values that change would > be unusable. > > I think that enum numbering is _already_ purely informative and > optional. Explicit numbering is optional. The proponents for this issue wants to remove the implicit auto-numbering. One argument is that even with the auto-numbering the module designer has to be aware of it when the module is updated; you cannot add enums in the middle w/o giving explicit values. /martin From nobody Wed Nov 19 02:12:06 2014 Return-Path: X-Original-To: netmod@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: netmod@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9BA861ACF94 for ; Wed, 19 Nov 2014 02:11:58 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.495 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.495 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, RP_MATCHES_RCVD=-0.594, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id FZMu_shMoh9h for ; Wed, 19 Nov 2014 02:11:55 -0800 (PST) Received: from mail.tail-f.com (mail.tail-f.com [83.241.162.140]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0530C1A008A for ; Wed, 19 Nov 2014 02:11:55 -0800 (PST) Received: from localhost (x15.tail-f.com [192.168.1.60]) by mail.tail-f.com (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 3C8F712809BC; Wed, 19 Nov 2014 11:11:54 +0100 (CET) Date: Wed, 19 Nov 2014 11:11:54 +0100 (CET) Message-Id: <20141119.111154.217079456944529909.mbj@tail-f.com> To: phil@juniper.net From: Martin Bjorklund In-Reply-To: <201411181937.sAIJbguL080247@idle.juniper.net> References: <201411181937.sAIJbguL080247@idle.juniper.net> X-Mailer: Mew version 6.5 on Emacs 23.4 / Mule 6.0 (HANACHIRUSATO) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: Text/Plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Archived-At: http://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/netmod/coHdEX0K0NApz1wNqrsOHeO1XTQ Cc: netmod@ietf.org Subject: [netmod] Y26: mandatory nodes in augment (Was: YANG 1.1 virtual interim 2014-11-19) X-BeenThere: netmod@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: NETMOD WG list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 19 Nov 2014 10:11:59 -0000 Phil Shafer wrote: > * OPEN :Y26: allow mandatory nodes in augment > > The restriction against having mandatory nodes in augments > is to prevent a client that understands the base model from > breaking the constraints introduced in an augmented module. > I think this is an important feature. Agreed. But the current rule is overly restrictive. For example, if a module defines an identity, and at the same time an augment that is conditional on that identity, it would be fine: identity ethernet { base if:interface-type; } augment /if:interfaces/if:interface { when "if:type = 'ex:ethernet'"; } /martin From nobody Wed Nov 19 02:15:30 2014 Return-Path: X-Original-To: netmod@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: netmod@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 76DCF1A00E7 for ; Wed, 19 Nov 2014 02:15:28 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.495 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.495 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, RP_MATCHES_RCVD=-0.594, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id Mdl38c0vxyfB for ; Wed, 19 Nov 2014 02:15:25 -0800 (PST) Received: from mail.tail-f.com (mail.tail-f.com [83.241.162.140]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1443D1A1A40 for ; Wed, 19 Nov 2014 02:15:25 -0800 (PST) Received: from localhost (x15.tail-f.com [192.168.1.60]) by mail.tail-f.com (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 47D1C12809BC; Wed, 19 Nov 2014 11:15:24 +0100 (CET) Date: Wed, 19 Nov 2014 11:15:24 +0100 (CET) Message-Id: <20141119.111524.1777990919940157291.mbj@tail-f.com> To: phil@juniper.net From: Martin Bjorklund In-Reply-To: <201411181937.sAIJbguL080247@idle.juniper.net> References: <201411181937.sAIJbguL080247@idle.juniper.net> X-Mailer: Mew version 6.5 on Emacs 23.4 / Mule 6.0 (HANACHIRUSATO) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: Text/Plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Archived-At: http://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/netmod/Z24V567sDmsNFkdECtXVdz_AU4Q Cc: netmod@ietf.org Subject: [netmod] Y34: remove anyxml (Was: YANG 1.1 virtual interim 2014-11-19) X-BeenThere: netmod@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: NETMOD WG list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 19 Nov 2014 10:15:28 -0000 Phil Shafer wrote: > * OPEN :Y34: remove/deprecate/replace the 'anyxml' statement > > I'm not following why anyxml is being considered for removal. > I consider it an important feature and strongly object. The problem is that it is encoding-specifc. In most case where it is used, what we really mean is "any data modelled with YANG". Hence, the proposal Y34-02 suggests we add 'anydata' for this purpose. Such data can be encoded in XML or JSON. /martin From nobody Wed Nov 19 02:17:11 2014 Return-Path: X-Original-To: netmod@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: netmod@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 453D01A00E7 for ; Wed, 19 Nov 2014 02:17:08 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -0.945 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-0.945 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, HELO_EQ_CZ=0.445, HOST_EQ_CZ=0.904, MIME_8BIT_HEADER=0.3, RP_MATCHES_RCVD=-0.594] autolearn=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id L1gZDeHeJ8Y9 for ; Wed, 19 Nov 2014 02:17:06 -0800 (PST) Received: from mail.nic.cz (mail.nic.cz [IPv6:2001:1488:800:400::400]) (using TLSv1 with cipher ADH-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 9DA8B1A008A for ; Wed, 19 Nov 2014 02:17:05 -0800 (PST) Received: from [192.168.1.108] (unknown [195.113.220.254]) by mail.nic.cz (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 2102013F853; Wed, 19 Nov 2014 11:17:04 +0100 (CET) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=simple/simple; d=nic.cz; s=default; t=1416392224; bh=lyqgO8WytRzIh6kUKUZTjFjDQjC8CnflpyLHEf5MgBo=; h=Content-Type:Mime-Version:Subject:From:In-Reply-To:Date:Cc: Content-Transfer-Encoding:Message-Id:References:To; b=rBBCsfSz0JfxnyssaQZ5kbrXx/Z6MvLbNFMYcvqx68OZEy+6PiWxgvTwxKJJ0hLga InM3VRaW7/07x60V+g+5BVWIRfhHl406dghS6KWZiXkJ91pK3vyXWUD8yT0csTwPvW FLL0UDaQR/RwlctKIlh+95/00xveRQWlUXp6Id5o= Content-Type: text/plain; charset=windows-1252 Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 7.3 \(1878.6\)) From: Ladislav Lhotka In-Reply-To: <20141119094343.GC91496@elstar.local> Date: Wed, 19 Nov 2014 11:17:03 +0100 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Message-Id: <042C0082-7B34-42C4-AAC5-024F68A637DB@nic.cz> References: <20141119094343.GC91496@elstar.local> To: =?windows-1252?Q?J=FCrgen_Sch=F6nw=E4lder?= X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.1878.6) X-Virus-Scanned: clamav-milter 0.98.1 at mail X-Virus-Status: Clean Archived-At: http://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/netmod/vk1ws5wVCrYou1dvXWcVQTrTxi4 Cc: NETMOD Working Group Subject: Re: [netmod] base64 versus base64url X-BeenThere: netmod@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: NETMOD WG list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 19 Nov 2014 10:17:08 -0000 On 19 Nov 2014, at 10:43, Juergen Schoenwaelder = wrote: > On Wed, Nov 19, 2014 at 09:54:59AM +0100, Ladislav Lhotka wrote: >> Hi, >>=20 >> Balazs rightly pointed out that values of the binary type can = potentially appear in RESTCONF=92s Request-URI (in the =93point=94 = parameter), so it might be prudent to make the encoding URI-safe and use = base64url instead of base64. Could this change be done in YANG 1.1? >>=20 >=20 > Lada, >=20 > I do not think this would pass the backwards compatibility test. RFC > 6020 says: The compatibility restriction in the charter is OK: YANG 1.0 modules = won=92t become invalid. >=20 > 9.8.2. Lexical Representation >=20 > Binary values are encoded with the base64 encoding scheme (see > [RFC4648], Section 4). >=20 > I do not think we can say that this is now something different. I > agree with Martin that other YANG types may contain values that need > url escaping as well. This is true, but for a =93binary=94 value it would be generally harder = to spot. Lada >=20 > /js >=20 > --=20 > Juergen Schoenwaelder Jacobs University Bremen gGmbH > Phone: +49 421 200 3587 Campus Ring 1, 28759 Bremen, Germany > Fax: +49 421 200 3103 -- Ladislav Lhotka, CZ.NIC Labs PGP Key ID: E74E8C0C From nobody Wed Nov 19 02:21:45 2014 Return-Path: X-Original-To: netmod@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: netmod@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8DC191A00E7 for ; Wed, 19 Nov 2014 02:21:40 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.495 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.495 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, RP_MATCHES_RCVD=-0.594, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id Pv-r2Mli4uqY for ; Wed, 19 Nov 2014 02:21:39 -0800 (PST) Received: from mail.tail-f.com (mail.tail-f.com [83.241.162.140]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 928C01ACFCC for ; Wed, 19 Nov 2014 02:21:37 -0800 (PST) Received: from localhost (x15.tail-f.com [192.168.1.60]) by mail.tail-f.com (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id CA1C912809BC; Wed, 19 Nov 2014 11:21:36 +0100 (CET) Date: Wed, 19 Nov 2014 11:21:36 +0100 (CET) Message-Id: <20141119.112136.11542582008308989.mbj@tail-f.com> To: phil@juniper.net From: Martin Bjorklund In-Reply-To: <201411181937.sAIJbguL080247@idle.juniper.net> References: <201411181937.sAIJbguL080247@idle.juniper.net> X-Mailer: Mew version 6.5 on Emacs 23.4 / Mule 6.0 (HANACHIRUSATO) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: Text/Plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Archived-At: http://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/netmod/7unsngHDuEgNCqx6TCNcq34C19E Cc: netmod@ietf.org Subject: [netmod] Y58: actions (Was: YANG 1.1 virtual interim 2014-11-19) X-BeenThere: netmod@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: NETMOD WG list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 19 Nov 2014 10:21:40 -0000 Phil Shafer wrote: > * VRFY :Y58: associate an actions with a data node > > I strongly disagree with the need for a second mechanism for > performing RPCs. It is more than a second mechanism for performing rpcs. From a data modelling perspective it is a matter of encapsulation. Define the data structure and operations on the structre in one place (in the hierarchy). Several implementations already implement actions and it is very common by the users to make use of them. > There's nothing one can do with this second > method that can't be done with the existing one. Why do we have hieararcical data models; we could as well have all lists and leafs at the top-level. Why do you (presumably) not store all your files in your home directory? /martin From nobody Wed Nov 19 02:31:49 2014 Return-Path: X-Original-To: netmod@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: netmod@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 43DD41ACFDF for ; Wed, 19 Nov 2014 02:31:48 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.144 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.144 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, HELO_EQ_DE=0.35, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, RP_MATCHES_RCVD=-0.594] autolearn=ham Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id uP8bcDyOrGVq for ; Wed, 19 Nov 2014 02:31:46 -0800 (PST) Received: from atlas3.jacobs-university.de (atlas3.jacobs-university.de [212.201.44.18]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher AECDH-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 64DA41ACFA5 for ; Wed, 19 Nov 2014 02:31:46 -0800 (PST) Received: from localhost (demetrius5.irc-it.jacobs-university.de [10.70.0.222]) by atlas3.jacobs-university.de (Postfix) with ESMTP id 33FA4F63; Wed, 19 Nov 2014 11:31:45 +0100 (CET) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at jacobs-university.de Received: from atlas3.jacobs-university.de ([10.70.0.220]) by localhost (demetrius5.jacobs-university.de [10.70.0.222]) (amavisd-new, port 10030) with ESMTP id nvkUed4mMb2c; Wed, 19 Nov 2014 11:31:31 +0100 (CET) Received: from hermes.jacobs-university.de (hermes.jacobs-university.de [212.201.44.23]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (Client CN "hermes.jacobs-university.de", Issuer "Jacobs University CA - G01" (verified OK)) by atlas3.jacobs-university.de (Postfix) with ESMTPS; Wed, 19 Nov 2014 11:31:44 +0100 (CET) Received: from localhost (demetrius3.jacobs-university.de [212.201.44.48]) by hermes.jacobs-university.de (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6D26B2002C; Wed, 19 Nov 2014 11:31:44 +0100 (CET) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at jacobs-university.de Received: from hermes.jacobs-university.de ([212.201.44.23]) by localhost (demetrius3.jacobs-university.de [212.201.44.32]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 3QhSFQDkIn6f; Wed, 19 Nov 2014 11:31:43 +0100 (CET) Received: from elstar.local (elstar.jacobs.jacobs-university.de [10.50.231.133]) by hermes.jacobs-university.de (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4FA8920017; Wed, 19 Nov 2014 11:31:43 +0100 (CET) Received: by elstar.local (Postfix, from userid 501) id 7B5C52FA4EA0; Wed, 19 Nov 2014 11:31:42 +0100 (CET) Date: Wed, 19 Nov 2014 11:31:42 +0100 From: Juergen Schoenwaelder To: Ladislav Lhotka Message-ID: <20141119103142.GA91857@elstar.local> Mail-Followup-To: Ladislav Lhotka , NETMOD Working Group References: <20141119094343.GC91496@elstar.local> <042C0082-7B34-42C4-AAC5-024F68A637DB@nic.cz> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit In-Reply-To: <042C0082-7B34-42C4-AAC5-024F68A637DB@nic.cz> User-Agent: Mutt/1.4.2.3i Archived-At: http://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/netmod/WZkrtnYvI41UqJMAYvXylEdJiQU Cc: NETMOD Working Group Subject: Re: [netmod] base64 versus base64url X-BeenThere: netmod@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list Reply-To: Juergen Schoenwaelder List-Id: NETMOD WG list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 19 Nov 2014 10:31:48 -0000 On Wed, Nov 19, 2014 at 11:17:03AM +0100, Ladislav Lhotka wrote: > > On 19 Nov 2014, at 10:43, Juergen Schoenwaelder wrote: > > > On Wed, Nov 19, 2014 at 09:54:59AM +0100, Ladislav Lhotka wrote: > >> Hi, > >> > >> Balazs rightly pointed out that values of the binary type can potentially appear in RESTCONF’s Request-URI (in the “point†parameter), so it might be prudent to make the encoding URI-safe and use base64url instead of base64. Could this change be done in YANG 1.1? > >> > > > > Lada, > > > > I do not think this would pass the backwards compatibility test. RFC > > 6020 says: > > The compatibility restriction in the charter is OK: YANG 1.0 modules won’t become invalid. > The data encoding on the wire would be different - I doubt that this is what we are chartered to do in YANG 1.1. /js -- Juergen Schoenwaelder Jacobs University Bremen gGmbH Phone: +49 421 200 3587 Campus Ring 1, 28759 Bremen, Germany Fax: +49 421 200 3103 From nobody Wed Nov 19 02:46:06 2014 Return-Path: X-Original-To: netmod@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: netmod@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 68FB61AD00E for ; Wed, 19 Nov 2014 02:46:01 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -0.945 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-0.945 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, HELO_EQ_CZ=0.445, HOST_EQ_CZ=0.904, MIME_8BIT_HEADER=0.3, RP_MATCHES_RCVD=-0.594] autolearn=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id f-oOnfrdw7rZ for ; Wed, 19 Nov 2014 02:46:00 -0800 (PST) Received: from mail.nic.cz (mail.nic.cz [IPv6:2001:1488:800:400::400]) (using TLSv1 with cipher ADH-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id E02101ACFDF for ; Wed, 19 Nov 2014 02:45:59 -0800 (PST) Received: from [172.20.6.143] (unknown [172.20.6.143]) by mail.nic.cz (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id E934513F853; Wed, 19 Nov 2014 11:45:57 +0100 (CET) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=simple/simple; d=nic.cz; s=default; t=1416393958; bh=B9Q8RRkSCqGcS1NU+DTBSAOJHeG52Vh8caZGNQkZ3Mg=; h=Content-Type:Mime-Version:Subject:From:In-Reply-To:Date:Cc: Content-Transfer-Encoding:Message-Id:References:To; b=saENW081GwaR5uqbwyDLMx17Ols0GqDoz34SAmLr3kGdJCy9pWMwO0XjXGSuRQjQA AhzWkS/ik6Tzn0q4aJqaaJRjVfK3eV0oJchckbrmRDnhlMcdwLnVsQH2FeSsezLfb1 ikVzULO1ZXy+abg4g7CwNkd2BTWHFYfPEqNaXPBg= Content-Type: text/plain; charset=windows-1252 Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 7.3 \(1878.6\)) From: Ladislav Lhotka In-Reply-To: <20141119103142.GA91857@elstar.local> Date: Wed, 19 Nov 2014 11:45:57 +0100 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Message-Id: <0489A32B-CC61-4C5A-90E8-16494E094632@nic.cz> References: <20141119094343.GC91496@elstar.local> <042C0082-7B34-42C4-AAC5-024F68A637DB@nic.cz> <20141119103142.GA91857@elstar.local> To: =?windows-1252?Q?J=FCrgen_Sch=F6nw=E4lder?= X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.1878.6) X-Virus-Scanned: clamav-milter 0.98.1 at mail X-Virus-Status: Clean Archived-At: http://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/netmod/20rBBf7VeEayQxFshXUOolTboF0 Cc: NETMOD Working Group Subject: Re: [netmod] base64 versus base64url X-BeenThere: netmod@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: NETMOD WG list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 19 Nov 2014 10:46:01 -0000 On 19 Nov 2014, at 11:31, Juergen Schoenwaelder = wrote: > On Wed, Nov 19, 2014 at 11:17:03AM +0100, Ladislav Lhotka wrote: >>=20 >> On 19 Nov 2014, at 10:43, Juergen Schoenwaelder = wrote: >>=20 >>> On Wed, Nov 19, 2014 at 09:54:59AM +0100, Ladislav Lhotka wrote: >>>> Hi, >>>>=20 >>>> Balazs rightly pointed out that values of the binary type can = potentially appear in RESTCONF=92s Request-URI (in the =93point=94 = parameter), so it might be prudent to make the encoding URI-safe and use = base64url instead of base64. Could this change be done in YANG 1.1? >>>>=20 >>>=20 >>> Lada, >>>=20 >>> I do not think this would pass the backwards compatibility test. RFC >>> 6020 says: >>=20 >> The compatibility restriction in the charter is OK: YANG 1.0 modules = won=92t become invalid. >>=20 >=20 > The data encoding on the wire would be different - I doubt that this > is what we are chartered to do in YANG 1.1. OK, if nobody thinks it is a problem worth solving, we can stick to = base64. Lada >=20 > /js >=20 > --=20 > Juergen Schoenwaelder Jacobs University Bremen gGmbH > Phone: +49 421 200 3587 Campus Ring 1, 28759 Bremen, Germany > Fax: +49 421 200 3103 -- Ladislav Lhotka, CZ.NIC Labs PGP Key ID: E74E8C0C From nobody Wed Nov 19 03:23:46 2014 Return-Path: X-Original-To: netmod@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: netmod@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2B7431AD026 for ; Wed, 19 Nov 2014 03:23:45 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.495 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.495 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, RP_MATCHES_RCVD=-0.594, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id nESpIdmJd3TI for ; Wed, 19 Nov 2014 03:23:43 -0800 (PST) Received: from mail.tail-f.com (mail.tail-f.com [83.241.162.140]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 57F6B1A001D for ; Wed, 19 Nov 2014 03:23:43 -0800 (PST) Received: from localhost (x15.tail-f.com [192.168.1.60]) by mail.tail-f.com (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id C0FA51280988; Wed, 19 Nov 2014 12:23:37 +0100 (CET) Date: Wed, 19 Nov 2014 12:23:37 +0100 (CET) Message-Id: <20141119.122337.217947561659039256.mbj@tail-f.com> To: phil@juniper.net From: Martin Bjorklund In-Reply-To: <201411181937.sAIJbguL080247@idle.juniper.net> References: <201411181937.sAIJbguL080247@idle.juniper.net> X-Mailer: Mew version 6.5 on Emacs 23.4 / Mule 6.0 (HANACHIRUSATO) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: Text/Plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Archived-At: http://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/netmod/VXy8tv2myvf1J7kNUFUQSsMJYco Cc: netmod@ietf.org Subject: [netmod] Y05: unprefixed paths in typedefs (Was: YANG 1.1 virtual interim 2014-11-19) X-BeenThere: netmod@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: NETMOD WG list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 19 Nov 2014 11:23:45 -0000 Phil Shafer wrote: > * OPEN :Y05: unprefixed path in top-level typedef > > I'm unclear on the difference between y05-01 and y05-03. > It seems like making typedefs work like groupings would be > the path of least astonishment. Yes, that is the idea. I have merged Y05-03 with Y05-01; so my proposal is to make them behave as groupings, see the updated proposal Y05-01 at https://svn.tools.ietf.org/svn/wg/netmod/yang-1.1/issues.html#sec-6. /martin From nobody Wed Nov 19 05:36:08 2014 Return-Path: X-Original-To: netmod@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: netmod@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7E33F1A1B9B; Wed, 19 Nov 2014 05:36:06 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -15.095 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-15.095 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_HI=-5, RP_MATCHES_RCVD=-0.594, SPF_PASS=-0.001, USER_IN_DEF_DKIM_WL=-7.5] autolearn=ham Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 73mwq993IyUd; Wed, 19 Nov 2014 05:36:04 -0800 (PST) Received: from alln-iport-7.cisco.com (alln-iport-7.cisco.com [173.37.142.94]) (using TLSv1 with cipher RC4-SHA (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 861AF1A037C; Wed, 19 Nov 2014 05:36:04 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/simple; d=cisco.com; i=@cisco.com; l=3548; q=dns/txt; s=iport; t=1416404164; x=1417613764; h=from:to:cc:subject:date:message-id:references: in-reply-to:content-id:content-transfer-encoding: mime-version; bh=p9IN5XvYMaIVY5gMMLZY2xQ2N2e7eIXTLmnTdYm3w/g=; b=j0l9apoYish/9oWmFgv/42Cb+hQCxoBf9dhb0z5vA09vut25TEOj6p+9 7QrQgxutP61XPafX+F8NKHJovLx99MJmLLhbUobE93OAjivyZ6HqpGg1k YNpspGCN+8I6EWpFfFC5ISmThZdoMCk2O/8ur7/FzEV+r6KzGHfAlTa1N U=; X-IronPort-Anti-Spam-Filtered: true X-IronPort-Anti-Spam-Result: AicFAFWcbFStJA2G/2dsb2JhbABagw6BLgTTVQKBBBYBAQEBAX2EAwEBBDo/EAIBCA4KHhAyJQIEAQ0FiEHTNQEBAQEBAQEBAQEBAQEBAQEBAQEZkQgHhEsBBJAYgj+MCoEzg1WECoYrgzWECYI2gUVtgUiBAwEBAQ X-IronPort-AV: E=Sophos;i="5.07,417,1413244800"; d="scan'208";a="98113511" Received: from alln-core-12.cisco.com ([173.36.13.134]) by alln-iport-7.cisco.com with ESMTP; 19 Nov 2014 13:36:03 +0000 Received: from xhc-rcd-x11.cisco.com (xhc-rcd-x11.cisco.com [173.37.183.85]) by alln-core-12.cisco.com (8.14.5/8.14.5) with ESMTP id sAJDa3Kb027287 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=AES128-SHA bits=128 verify=FAIL); Wed, 19 Nov 2014 13:36:03 GMT Received: from xmb-aln-x06.cisco.com ([169.254.1.191]) by xhc-rcd-x11.cisco.com ([173.37.183.85]) with mapi id 14.03.0195.001; Wed, 19 Nov 2014 07:36:03 -0600 From: "Acee Lindem (acee)" To: Martin Bjorklund , "lhotka@nic.cz" Thread-Topic: [Rtg-yang-coord] [netmod] High Level Comments on draft-ietf-netmod-rtg-cfg-16.txt Thread-Index: AQHQA/Xztr8uJfo+j0iZcOT/psr2YZxoBFuA Date: Wed, 19 Nov 2014 13:35:46 +0000 Message-ID: References: <20141119.134003.1741683880484092511.mbj@tail-f.com> In-Reply-To: <20141119.134003.1741683880484092511.mbj@tail-f.com> Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-originating-ip: [10.116.152.196] Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-ID: <69A61F9C2037B948AFED268A7EA3E8B2@emea.cisco.com> Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable MIME-Version: 1.0 Archived-At: http://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/netmod/o7UmK7oqGeWbq9PPR8Pxi2kyUmk Cc: "rtg-yang-coord@ietf.org" , "netmod@ietf.org" , "rtgwg@ietf.org" Subject: Re: [netmod] [Rtg-yang-coord] High Level Comments on draft-ietf-netmod-rtg-cfg-16.txt X-BeenThere: netmod@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: NETMOD WG list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 19 Nov 2014 13:36:06 -0000 Re-adding netmod@ietf.org due to popular request. On 11/19/14, 7:40 AM, "Martin Bjorklund" wrote: >Ladislav Lhotka wrote: >> Hi Acee, >>=20 >> please see my comments inline. >>=20 >> "Acee Lindem (acee)" writes: >>=20 >> > First, let me explain why I requested that the route-filters be >> > removed from the model. What I don't like about the route-filters is >> > that they are merely place-holders placed at a point-of-attachment >> > which I don't necessarily agree with. Although we may end up with >> > something similar, these definitions should be in a more complete >> > routing policy model. Additionally, I believe it is obvious that there >> > will >>=20 >> I don't think the ietf-routing module preempts any further work on a >> policy model. And if the points-of-attachment turn out to be wrong, we >> can write a new module - nothing is cast in stone and I expect the >> module will have to be redone anyway after some experience will have >> been collected. > >But then it doesn't hurt to wait with these "attachment points" until >at least the first policy model is being written, right? They can >then either be defined in an update to this model, or in a separate >model that augments this one. My point is that this may set us off in the wrong direction and be a source of future confusion and debate. If others believe the existing stub policies are a good start, they should speak up. > >[...] > >> > As for the interface list in the routing-instance, I think it is >> > obvious that one should not define the address space for interface >> > disjointly from the IPv4/IPv6 interface addresses. That is why I >> > would recommend augmenting the RFC 7273 objects with a reference >> > to the routing instance rather having a disjoint interface >> > list in routing-instance as proposed. >>=20 >> It is IMO subjective whether the assignment of interfaces to routing >> instances should be done in interface configuration or in routing >> instance configuration. As it is now, the following procedure could work >> fine: >>=20 >> 1. Define routing instances (this has to be done in any case). >> 2. Assign interfaces to routing instances in routing instance >> configuration via references to interfaces in the main interface >> list. >> 3. Assign addresses to interfaces in main interface configuration. >>=20 >> The system then has all information to be able to resolve potential >> conflicts in IP addresses belonging to different routing instances. > >To be very clear, is this what you propose: > > augement /if:interfaces/if:interface { > leaf routing-instance { > type routing-instance-ref; > } > } > >... and remove /routing/routing-instance/interfaces? Either here or augment ietf-ip (RFC 7277) in a similar manner. I also think the definition of the ipv6-router-advertisements should augment the ipv6 container in ietf-ip rather than on this misplaced list of interfaces.=20 Thanks, Acee=20 > >I think this would be equivalent to your current model, in the sense >of *what* you can express. > >> Maybe there are some implementation-related issues that I am missing, >> so I am not against the change you propose but I'd like to know sound >> reasons before applying it. > >I think Acee provided a good reason: > >> > one should not define the address space for interface >> > disjointly from the IPv4/IPv6 interface addresses > > > > >/martin From nobody Wed Nov 19 05:45:16 2014 Return-Path: X-Original-To: netmod@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: netmod@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id B10551A037C; Wed, 19 Nov 2014 05:45:14 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -15.095 X-Spam-Level: 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Wed, 19 Nov 2014 07:45:10 -0600 From: "Acee Lindem (acee)" To: Ladislav Lhotka , "rtgwg@ietf.org" , "rtg-yang-coord@ietf.org" , "netmod@ietf.org" Thread-Topic: [Rtg-yang-coord] [netmod] High Level Comments on draft-ietf-netmod-rtg-cfg-16.txt Thread-Index: AQHQA/8I0xrGCcOzNUayz+rYlNi6Pg== Date: Wed, 19 Nov 2014 13:44:52 +0000 Message-ID: References: In-Reply-To: Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-originating-ip: [10.116.152.196] Content-Type: text/plain; charset="euc-kr" Content-ID: <40E5007D74C81C4592054E610F3DEF41@emea.cisco.com> Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 MIME-Version: 1.0 Archived-At: http://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/netmod/n1aX0yCDsRfIsX2oqJBmi9Z0Ah8 Subject: Re: [netmod] [Rtg-yang-coord] High Level Comments on draft-ietf-netmod-rtg-cfg-16.txt X-BeenThere: netmod@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: NETMOD WG list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , 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DQo+UEdQIEtleSBJRDogRTc0RThDMEMNCg0K From nobody Wed Nov 19 05:46:07 2014 Return-Path: X-Original-To: netmod@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: netmod@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 78BAA1A037C; Wed, 19 Nov 2014 05:46:04 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -0.645 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-0.645 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, HELO_EQ_CZ=0.445, HOST_EQ_CZ=0.904, J_CHICKENPOX_29=0.6, RP_MATCHES_RCVD=-0.594] autolearn=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id KbsY579F-xRu; Wed, 19 Nov 2014 05:46:02 -0800 (PST) Received: from mail.nic.cz (mail.nic.cz [IPv6:2001:1488:800:400::400]) (using TLSv1 with cipher ADH-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id A52B81A037B; Wed, 19 Nov 2014 05:46:01 -0800 (PST) Received: from [192.168.1.108] (unknown [195.113.220.254]) by mail.nic.cz (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id F035D13F853; Wed, 19 Nov 2014 14:45:59 +0100 (CET) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=simple/simple; d=nic.cz; s=default; t=1416404760; bh=86tPHpbrs4oVbcT46euonJTXRLGYM/BjtE+HgL1Lrs4=; h=Content-Type:Mime-Version:Subject:From:In-Reply-To:Date:Cc: Content-Transfer-Encoding:Message-Id:References:To; b=niktppy+xwzqCUwm61ZIMjhFh6bP6RLSF4pMuFJTEl/RhI6ej1KlGN28lpycfSfUU 8PRz/Q25fIJCODxUbLbX7TYtv+tbhkZ7BvSObArKUH23UDC0ruU6MEkvpoJfbiKVhg jQqyPgYCZyi/DlIxD+erRRoS86QEbhYZs1RVUlV4= Content-Type: text/plain; charset=windows-1252 Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 7.3 \(1878.6\)) From: Ladislav Lhotka In-Reply-To: Date: Wed, 19 Nov 2014 14:45:59 +0100 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Message-Id: <00447907-9E3C-408C-BFDC-8BABE0254869@nic.cz> References: <20141119.134003.1741683880484092511.mbj@tail-f.com> To: "Acee Lindem (acee)" X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.1878.6) X-Virus-Scanned: clamav-milter 0.98.1 at mail X-Virus-Status: Clean Archived-At: http://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/netmod/GmHlUDmdByc4xZBlwsK0PWyiJzU Cc: "rtg-yang-coord@ietf.org" , "netmod@ietf.org" , "rtgwg@ietf.org" Subject: Re: [netmod] [Rtg-yang-coord] High Level Comments on draft-ietf-netmod-rtg-cfg-16.txt X-BeenThere: netmod@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: NETMOD WG list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 19 Nov 2014 13:46:04 -0000 On 19 Nov 2014, at 14:35, Acee Lindem (acee) wrote: > Re-adding netmod@ietf.org due to popular request. >=20 > On 11/19/14, 7:40 AM, "Martin Bjorklund" wrote: >=20 >> Ladislav Lhotka wrote: >>> Hi Acee, >>>=20 >>> please see my comments inline. >>>=20 >>> "Acee Lindem (acee)" writes: >>>=20 >>>> First, let me explain why I requested that the route-filters be >>>> removed from the model. What I don't like about the route-filters = is >>>> that they are merely place-holders placed at a point-of-attachment >>>> which I don't necessarily agree with. Although we may end up with >>>> something similar, these definitions should be in a more complete >>>> routing policy model. Additionally, I believe it is obvious that = there >>>> will >>>=20 >>> I don't think the ietf-routing module preempts any further work on a >>> policy model. And if the points-of-attachment turn out to be wrong, = we >>> can write a new module - nothing is cast in stone and I expect the >>> module will have to be redone anyway after some experience will have >>> been collected. >>=20 >> But then it doesn't hurt to wait with these "attachment points" until >> at least the first policy model is being written, right? They can >> then either be defined in an update to this model, or in a separate >> model that augments this one. >=20 > My point is that this may set us off in the wrong direction and be a > source of future confusion and debate. If others believe the existing = stub > policies are a good start, they should speak up. >=20 >=20 +1 >=20 >=20 >>=20 >> [...] >>=20 >>>> As for the interface list in the routing-instance, I think it is >>>> obvious that one should not define the address space for interface >>>> disjointly from the IPv4/IPv6 interface addresses. That is why I >>>> would recommend augmenting the RFC 7273 objects with a reference >>>> to the routing instance rather having a disjoint interface >>>> list in routing-instance as proposed. >>>=20 >>> It is IMO subjective whether the assignment of interfaces to routing >>> instances should be done in interface configuration or in routing >>> instance configuration. As it is now, the following procedure could = work >>> fine: >>>=20 >>> 1. Define routing instances (this has to be done in any case). >>> 2. Assign interfaces to routing instances in routing instance >>> configuration via references to interfaces in the main interface >>> list. >>> 3. Assign addresses to interfaces in main interface configuration. >>>=20 >>> The system then has all information to be able to resolve potential >>> conflicts in IP addresses belonging to different routing instances. >>=20 >> To be very clear, is this what you propose: >>=20 >> augement /if:interfaces/if:interface { >> leaf routing-instance { >> type routing-instance-ref; >> } >> } >>=20 >> ... and remove /routing/routing-instance/interfaces? >=20 > Either here or augment ietf-ip (RFC 7277) in a similar manner. I also > think the definition of the ipv6-router-advertisements should augment = the > ipv6 container in ietf-ip rather than on this misplaced list of > interfaces. An advantage of this misplaced list of interfaces is that it is supposed = to contain only network layer interfaces whereas if:interface is a flat = list that contains interfaces of all layers including those where RAs = don=92t make sense at all. Lada >=20 > Thanks, > Acee=20 >=20 >>=20 >> I think this would be equivalent to your current model, in the sense >> of *what* you can express. >>=20 >>> Maybe there are some implementation-related issues that I am = missing, >>> so I am not against the change you propose but I'd like to know = sound >>> reasons before applying it. >>=20 >> I think Acee provided a good reason: >>=20 >>>> one should not define the address space for interface >>>> disjointly from the IPv4/IPv6 interface addresses >>=20 >>=20 >>=20 >>=20 >> /martin -- Ladislav Lhotka, CZ.NIC Labs PGP Key ID: E74E8C0C From nobody Wed Nov 19 05:57:43 2014 Return-Path: X-Original-To: netmod@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: netmod@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id C097E1A70E2; Wed, 19 Nov 2014 05:57:39 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.245 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.245 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, HELO_EQ_CZ=0.445, HOST_EQ_CZ=0.904, RP_MATCHES_RCVD=-0.594] autolearn=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id W5MZaMQfF-Jp; Wed, 19 Nov 2014 05:57:37 -0800 (PST) Received: from mail.nic.cz (mail.nic.cz [IPv6:2001:1488:800:400::400]) (using TLSv1 with cipher ADH-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 7274F1A1C05; Wed, 19 Nov 2014 05:57:37 -0800 (PST) Received: from [192.168.1.108] (unknown [195.113.220.254]) by mail.nic.cz (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id E95A613F9F3; Wed, 19 Nov 2014 14:57:35 +0100 (CET) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=simple/simple; d=nic.cz; s=default; t=1416405456; bh=1dnE0qNMEjYS9931GGdb73ehR1SVdToyuA67spLG1Ng=; h=Content-Type:Mime-Version:Subject:From:In-Reply-To:Date:Cc: Content-Transfer-Encoding:Message-Id:References:To; b=cqbSSAi/dgmosdEPaUK0Izss2RriLFqM8NDXJX/+y+r6q0pht08S42bh/r1Ez1tTE +JvYCmCzU0X9pBsoODVmBlSmacM28tuo8WC1v0wx2Qq0j286vd9am0WvINIjDYxa62 44Tk5VMB7/GrACLCuDVEWkSe03ElCgU65Y+TKXBQ= Content-Type: text/plain; charset=euc-kr Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 7.3 \(1878.6\)) From: Ladislav Lhotka In-Reply-To: Date: Wed, 19 Nov 2014 14:57:35 +0100 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Message-Id: <9769752C-BDB2-4D97-974C-663AAF4BC4E9@nic.cz> References: To: "Acee Lindem (acee)" X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.1878.6) X-Virus-Scanned: clamav-milter 0.98.1 at mail X-Virus-Status: Clean Archived-At: http://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/netmod/i0VrxZjlzMyWNq01Q6_w7bPnThs Cc: "rtg-yang-coord@ietf.org" , "netmod@ietf.org" , "rtgwg@ietf.org" Subject: Re: [netmod] [Rtg-yang-coord] High Level Comments on draft-ietf-netmod-rtg-cfg-16.txt X-BeenThere: netmod@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: NETMOD WG list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 19 Nov 2014 13:57:39 -0000 On 19 Nov 2014, at 14:44, Acee Lindem (acee) wrote: > Hi Lada,=20 >=20 > I think we are at the point of agreeing to disagree. See inline. >=20 > On 11/19/14, 7:12 AM, "Ladislav Lhotka" wrote: >=20 >> Hi Acee, >>=20 >> please see my comments inline. >>=20 >> "Acee Lindem (acee)" writes: >>=20 >>> First, let me explain why I requested that the route-filters be >>> removed from the model. What I don't like about the route-filters is >>> that they are merely place-holders placed at a point-of-attachment >>> which I don't necessarily agree with. Although we may end up with >>> something similar, these definitions should be in a more complete >>> routing policy model. Additionally, I believe it is obvious that = there >>> will >>=20 >> I don't think the ietf-routing module preempts any further work on a >> policy model. And if the points-of-attachment turn out to be wrong, = we >> can write a new module - nothing is cast in stone and I expect the >> module will have to be redone anyway after some experience will have >> been collected. >=20 > Sounds like a good reason to remove the route-filters to me. >=20 >>=20 >> On the other hand, several modules for routing protocols are being >> developed, as you know. For any practical use, some way of specifying >> routing policy will be needed, and the current framework can serve = this >> purpose for now. Folks working on the BGP module already included = some >> BGP-specific policy configuration, and I will try to work with them = on >> integrating it with route filters in ietf-routing. Vendors can also >> define their proprietary filtering frameworks in the mean time. I am >> myself working on one for the BIRD routing daemon. >=20 > You speak like your model is cast in stone. I, for one, believe that = both > protocol specific and generic policy should be attached in the routing > protocol instance itself. I think this is much more intuitive and = matches > the prevailing industry model. Compatibility with Bird should not = dictate > the industry model. Certainly not, but in JUNOS =A1=B0control points=A1=B1 for routing = policies are also between routing protocols and routing tables. I = understand Cisco way is different but I think direct redistribution = between protocols can always be emulated via a routing table whereas the = opposite is not true. >=20 >=20 >>=20 >>> be both generic policy and protocol specific policy (e.g., BGP). If >>> these route-filters are to be included, there should be more = guidance >>> as to precisely how they are to be used. Given their >>> point-of-attachment, >>> they should clearly only be used for generic routing policy. Note = that >>> for the two routing protocol instances (static and connected) = defined >>> in draft-ietf-netmod-rtg-cfg, the import filters aren't even >>> applicable. >>=20 >> I can imagine filtering system-generated direct routes. >>=20 >>> This fact alone would suggest that this may not be the right >>> point-of-attachment for such routing policy. However, if I'm in the >>> minority, they can be retained for TBD augmentation. >>=20 >> The idea was that any future routing protocol module that's designed >> according to the guidelines in the I-D could participate in routing >> policies without further ado. >>=20 >>>=20 >>> As for the interface list in the routing-instance, I think it is >>> obvious that one should not define the address space for interface >>> disjointly from the IPv4/IPv6 interface addresses. That is why I >>> would recommend augmenting the RFC 7273 objects with a reference >>> to the routing instance rather having a disjoint interface >>> list in routing-instance as proposed. >>=20 >> It is IMO subjective whether the assignment of interfaces to routing >> instances should be done in interface configuration or in routing >> instance configuration. As it is now, the following procedure could = work >> fine: >>=20 >> 1. Define routing instances (this has to be done in any case). >> 2. Assign interfaces to routing instances in routing instance >> configuration via references to interfaces in the main interface >> list. >> 3. Assign addresses to interfaces in main interface configuration. >=20 > The question is not whether it could be made to work but whether it is = the > most optimal hierarchy. What=A1=AFs an optimal hierarchy is highly subjective, so I=A1=AFd = really like others to speak up. Lada =20 >=20 > Thanks, > Acee=20 >=20 >=20 >=20 >>=20 >> The system then has all information to be able to resolve potential >> conflicts in IP addresses belonging to different routing instances. >>=20 >> Maybe there are some implementation-related issues that I am missing, >> so I am not against the change you propose but I'd like to know sound >> reasons before applying it. >>=20 >> FYI, we found a solution for the VPN issue that Jeff Haas raised at = the >> mike, and Jeff promised to write a review of the routing-cfg draft. >>=20 >>>=20 >>> Thanks, >>> Acee >>> P.S. netmod list bcc=A1=AFed. This discussion should take place on >>> rtg-yang-coord@ietf.org. >>=20 >> Agreed, I don't think NETMOD WG has to be involved at this stage. If >> we stumble upon any YANG-specific issues, I will take them to the = NETMOD >> mailing list separately. >>=20 >> Thanks, Lada >>=20 >>>=20 >>>=20 >>>=20 >>>=20 >>>=20 >>> On 11/11/14, 4:58 PM, "Acee Lindem (acee)" wrote: >>>=20 >>>> I have two rather substantive comments on the draft we will be >>>> discussing >>>> in tomorrow=A9=F6s rtgwg meeting. >>>>=20 >>>> 1. The draft includes stub definitions for import/export routing >>>> filters with the guidance that these should be augmented. I would = like >>>> to >>>> see these removed from this draft as the whole area of routing = policy >>>> should be worked on by a multi-vendor team similar to what is being = done >>>> for the routing protocols. I don=A9=F6t think the direction should = be set for >>>> routing policy based on these stub definitions. >>>>=20 >>>> 2. The draft defines a list of interfaces that correspond to a >>>> routing-instance. The routing-instance binds the physical interface = (RFC >>>> RFC 7273) to an address space. However, the IPv4/IPv6 interface >>>> addresses >>>> are specified via the YANG model in RFC 7277. I really don=A9=F6t = like this >>>> disjoint specification. Rather, "/if:interfaces/if:interface" in = RFC >>>> 7273 >>>> should be augmented in a reference to the routing instance. >>>> Additionally, >>>> the neighbor discovery definitions should augment the ipv6 = container in >>>> RFC 7277).=20 >>>>=20 >>>> I also have one question for the RTG WG - do we want this model to >>>> specify >>>> the precise forwarding behavior? >>>>=20 >>>> The draft states that =A9=F8backup next-hops are only used if no = primary >>>> next-hops exist." This will relegate all implementations to the = same >>>> IPFRR >>>> behavior. I don=A9=F6t think that this should be specified in this = draft. >>>>=20 >>>> Thanks, >>>> Acee=20 >>>>=20 >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> netmod mailing list >>>> netmod@ietf.org >>>> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/netmod >>>=20 >>> _______________________________________________ >>> Rtg-yang-coord mailing list >>> Rtg-yang-coord@ietf.org >>> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/rtg-yang-coord >>=20 >> --=20 >> Ladislav Lhotka, CZ.NIC Labs >> PGP Key ID: E74E8C0C >=20 > _______________________________________________ > Rtg-yang-coord mailing list > Rtg-yang-coord@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/rtg-yang-coord -- Ladislav Lhotka, CZ.NIC Labs PGP Key ID: E74E8C0C From nobody Wed Nov 19 06:14:31 2014 Return-Path: X-Original-To: netmod@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: netmod@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 41F5D1A8942 for ; Wed, 19 Nov 2014 06:14:28 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.9 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.9 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9] autolearn=ham Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id BfMjfTJdb0TD for ; Wed, 19 Nov 2014 06:14:25 -0800 (PST) Received: from trail.lhotka.name (trail.lhotka.name [77.48.224.143]) (using TLSv1.1 with cipher AECDH-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id BC3021A891A for ; Wed, 19 Nov 2014 06:14:12 -0800 (PST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by trail.lhotka.name (Postfix) with ESMTP id C2F075406F1; Wed, 19 Nov 2014 15:14:10 +0100 (CET) Received: from trail.lhotka.name ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (trail.lhotka.name [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 2OMCkCx0SWki; Wed, 19 Nov 2014 15:14:06 +0100 (CET) Received: from localhost (unknown [195.113.220.254]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by trail.lhotka.name (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 9BDB354057D; Wed, 19 Nov 2014 15:14:05 +0100 (CET) From: Ladislav Lhotka To: Juergen Schoenwaelder , Martin Bjorklund In-Reply-To: <20141119093732.GB91496@elstar.local> References: <20141118.215918.891334686283901715.mbj@tail-f.com> <20141119091935.GA91408@elstar.local> <20141119.102337.1863838456346594585.mbj@tail-f.com> <20141119093732.GB91496@elstar.local> User-Agent: Notmuch/0.18.1 (http://notmuchmail.org) Emacs/24.4.51.2 (x86_64-apple-darwin14.0.0) Date: Wed, 19 Nov 2014 15:14:04 +0100 Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Archived-At: http://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/netmod/0ekVrleOsJPYG29ps7qVJO9EOaU Cc: netmod@ietf.org Subject: Re: [netmod] instence-identifier in JSON X-BeenThere: netmod@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: NETMOD WG list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 19 Nov 2014 14:14:28 -0000 Juergen Schoenwaelder writes: > On Wed, Nov 19, 2014 at 10:23:37AM +0100, Martin Bjorklund wrote: >> Juergen Schoenwaelder wrote: >> > On Wed, Nov 19, 2014 at 09:08:03AM +0100, Ladislav Lhotka wrote: >> > > > >> > > > I agree with this, and in hindsight we should have picked a different >> > > > encoding for i-i (and identityrefs) in YANG. >> > > >> > > Right. The particular form of i-i as defined in RFC 6020 probably follows >> > > from two factors: >> > > >> > > - encoding of namespaces in XML - however, the URI/prefix duality was >> > > identified as one of serious problems of XML [1]. >> > > >> > > - in XPath 1.0, all QNames have to have explicit prefixes - this problem >> > > was fixed in XPath 2.0. >> > > >> > > > >> > > > But here we are and we need to do something for JSON to work. >> > > >> > > ... and we needn't necessarily repeat XML mistakes. >> > >> > Lets keep things straight. The XML serialization of YANG defined data >> > works. I hope we can all agree to that. >> > >> > If we create additional _encodings_, I think we have to make them work >> > in terms of interoperability and coverage. RFC 6020 makes assumptions >> > in several places that the encoding is XML or it is using XML's notion >> > of namespaces. If we want to support multiple encodings, I think we >> > need to define the interface of YANG to the encoding systems so that >> > we can preserve consistency and we know how conversions can be carried >> > out. >> > >> > A YANG XML instance identifier that is different form a YANG JSON >> > instance identifier that is different from a YANG CBOR instance >> > identifier can't really be the direction to go for. Add to this >> > RESTCONF resource identifiers and CORECONF resource identifiers that >> > are again different and confusion will be there. Lets also keep in >> > mind that data models like ietf-netconf-acm.yang assume that a >> > node-instance-identifier is a subset of yang:xpath1.0. >> > >> > Years ago, I worked on SMIng and trying to support different naming >> > systems led to major problems. We are on a slippery slope to get there >> > again. As technical conributor, I believe YANG should have a single >> > naming system and not allow encodings to create their own naming >> > systems. >> >> So what is your proposal? >> > > Here is a proposal: We add a new issue to YANG 1.1 to define the > interface between YANG and YANG encodings. This interface needs to > define how the YANG type system interacts with type systems used by > (typed) encodings. It also needs to define what the YANG naming system > is. And then encodings have to stick to this interface. This sounds like a good plan to me. > > Yes, this is primarily a procedural answer. I do not have a detailed > proposal for the various technical questions involved. That said, I > strongly prefer a single YANG naming systems and a consistent way > types are handled across encodings. It is important to be able to convert data between different encodings but stipulating a complete uniformity would most likely mean giving up advantages of individual encodings (except one, which has to be XML:-). Lada > > /js > > -- > Juergen Schoenwaelder Jacobs University Bremen gGmbH > Phone: +49 421 200 3587 Campus Ring 1, 28759 Bremen, Germany > Fax: +49 421 200 3103 -- Ladislav Lhotka, CZ.NIC Labs PGP Key ID: E74E8C0C From nobody Wed Nov 19 06:17:49 2014 Return-Path: X-Original-To: netmod@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: netmod@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 887461A898C for ; Wed, 19 Nov 2014 06:17:47 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.9 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.9 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9] autolearn=ham Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id rvsGolHy2qbC for ; Wed, 19 Nov 2014 06:17:45 -0800 (PST) Received: from trail.lhotka.name (trail.lhotka.name [77.48.224.143]) (using TLSv1.1 with cipher AECDH-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 60E681A8942 for ; Wed, 19 Nov 2014 06:17:45 -0800 (PST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by trail.lhotka.name (Postfix) with ESMTP id B3BC65406F1; Wed, 19 Nov 2014 15:17:43 +0100 (CET) Received: from trail.lhotka.name ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (trail.lhotka.name [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id Gz3NOrb2vbPf; Wed, 19 Nov 2014 15:17:40 +0100 (CET) Received: from localhost (unknown [195.113.220.254]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by trail.lhotka.name (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id DC02F54057D; Wed, 19 Nov 2014 15:17:39 +0100 (CET) From: Ladislav Lhotka To: Phil Shafer , netmod@ietf.org In-Reply-To: <201411190252.sAJ2qsQA085198@idle.juniper.net> References: <201411190252.sAJ2qsQA085198@idle.juniper.net> User-Agent: Notmuch/0.18.1 (http://notmuchmail.org) Emacs/24.4.51.2 (x86_64-apple-darwin14.0.0) Date: Wed, 19 Nov 2014 15:17:39 +0100 Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Archived-At: http://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/netmod/IYxVNy-t0AtsUqyOZs_UqQPrfxI Subject: Re: [netmod] Work volume X-BeenThere: netmod@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: NETMOD WG list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 19 Nov 2014 14:17:47 -0000 Phil Shafer writes: > I just wanted to make a general comment on the volume of work being > addressed by the working group. This is also true of the netconf > working group. > > During last week's meeting, we have numerous problems getting real > discussions going regarding current drafts and open issues. It > seems like complex topics are best handled in these meetings, since > it gives them the widest exposure, not just to our normal cast of > characters but to members of other WGs as well. When we have > JSON/I-JSON issues, we can get JSON WG characters to help. Similar > for routing, etc. I agree. Comments by Carsten Bormann to the yang-json draft were highly useful and we probably wouldn't get them elsewhere. Lada > > So my suggestion is that we try to reserve this precious time to > issues we know are contentious or require more discussion. We can > have draft authors submit the traditional "status" slides to the > mailing lists before the meeting to allow us to decide what discussions > are needed for the face-to-face meeting. > > This is especially true since we seem to be stuck with Friday > meetings, which remove the opportunity to discuss these issues in > hallways and bars. > > Thanks, > Phil > > _______________________________________________ > netmod mailing list > netmod@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/netmod -- Ladislav Lhotka, CZ.NIC Labs PGP Key ID: E74E8C0C From nobody Wed Nov 19 06:53:01 2014 Return-Path: X-Original-To: netmod@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: netmod@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id EDA621A1C05 for ; Wed, 19 Nov 2014 06:52:58 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.143 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.143 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, HELO_EQ_DE=0.35, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, RP_MATCHES_RCVD=-0.594, WEIRD_PORT=0.001] autolearn=ham Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id KaWGnQYovvRN for ; Wed, 19 Nov 2014 06:52:56 -0800 (PST) Received: from atlas3.jacobs-university.de (atlas3.jacobs-university.de [212.201.44.18]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher AECDH-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 978901A07BC for ; Wed, 19 Nov 2014 06:52:55 -0800 (PST) Received: from localhost (demetrius5.irc-it.jacobs-university.de [10.70.0.222]) by atlas3.jacobs-university.de (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9FC0EF87 for ; Wed, 19 Nov 2014 15:52:54 +0100 (CET) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at jacobs-university.de Received: from atlas3.jacobs-university.de ([10.70.0.220]) by localhost (demetrius5.jacobs-university.de [10.70.0.222]) (amavisd-new, port 10030) with ESMTP id TMz0IpdPy0VZ for ; Wed, 19 Nov 2014 15:52:39 +0100 (CET) Received: from hermes.jacobs-university.de (hermes.jacobs-university.de [212.201.44.23]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (Client CN "hermes.jacobs-university.de", Issuer "Jacobs University CA - G01" (verified OK)) by atlas3.jacobs-university.de (Postfix) with ESMTPS for ; Wed, 19 Nov 2014 15:52:54 +0100 (CET) Received: from localhost (demetrius3.jacobs-university.de [212.201.44.48]) by hermes.jacobs-university.de (Postfix) with ESMTP id B46B22003F for ; Wed, 19 Nov 2014 15:52:53 +0100 (CET) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at jacobs-university.de Received: from hermes.jacobs-university.de ([212.201.44.23]) by localhost (demetrius3.jacobs-university.de [212.201.44.32]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id UUMC51j2cPUh; Wed, 19 Nov 2014 15:52:52 +0100 (CET) Received: from elstar.local (elstar.jacobs.jacobs-university.de [10.50.231.133]) by hermes.jacobs-university.de (Postfix) with ESMTP id 753C620017; Wed, 19 Nov 2014 15:52:52 +0100 (CET) Received: by elstar.local (Postfix, from userid 501) id 9E4102FA54FA; Wed, 19 Nov 2014 15:52:51 +0100 (CET) Date: Wed, 19 Nov 2014 15:52:51 +0100 From: Juergen Schoenwaelder To: netmod@ietf.org Message-ID: <20141119145251.GA92858@elstar.local> Mail-Followup-To: netmod@ietf.org References: <20141118191814.GA89088@elstar.local> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <20141118191814.GA89088@elstar.local> User-Agent: Mutt/1.4.2.3i Archived-At: http://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/netmod/cxqb6sHdtPG2DtYZ-MMj0fxKyo0 Subject: Re: [netmod] YANG 1.1 virtual interim 2014-11-19 X-BeenThere: netmod@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list Reply-To: Juergen Schoenwaelder List-Id: NETMOD WG list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 19 Nov 2014 14:52:59 -0000 Hi, the etherpad we are going to use is here: http://etherpad.tools.ietf.org:9000/p/notes-ietf-netmod-virtual-interim-2014-10-29 /js On Tue, Nov 18, 2014 at 08:18:15PM +0100, Juergen Schoenwaelder wrote: > Hi, > > we are having the next YANG 1.1 virtual interim tomorrow, 2014-11-19, > at 4pm CET. Below you will find the webex information. > > We have two issues that failed the VRFY step on the mailing list > > * VRFY :Y13: allow multiple inheritance for identities > * VRFY :Y58: associate an actions with a data node > > and we have 11 issues that are still OPEN: > > * OPEN :Y05: unprefixed path in top-level typedef > * OPEN :Y09: introduce optional keys <> > * OPEN :Y16: module advertisement optimization <> > * OPEN :Y18: fix "when" expression context node problem > * OPEN :Y25: make enum numbering purely informative and optional > * OPEN :Y26: allow mandatory nodes in augment > * OPEN :Y34: remove/deprecate/replace the 'anyxml' statement > * OPEN :Y45: better conformance mechanism <> > * OPEN :Y49: clarify nested submodule behavior > * OPEN :Y54: remove the advertisement of conformance in hello message > * OPEN :Y57: non-unique leaf-list > > Lets see how far we get tomorrow with this list. > -- Juergen Schoenwaelder Jacobs University Bremen gGmbH Phone: +49 421 200 3587 Campus Ring 1, 28759 Bremen, Germany Fax: +49 421 200 3103 From nobody Wed Nov 19 07:23:08 2014 Return-Path: X-Original-To: netmod@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: netmod@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id D08DE1ACF9A for ; 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X-Exchange-Antispam-Report-CFA-Test: BCL:0;PCL:0;RULEID:;SRVR:CO1PR05MB441; X-OriginatorOrg: juniper.net Archived-At: http://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/netmod/jZL6IfbAuLQbROm4HBrXN9Yhn4Y Cc: netmod@ietf.org Subject: Re: [netmod] review of draft-bierman-netmod-yang-conformance-04 X-BeenThere: netmod@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: NETMOD WG list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 19 Nov 2014 15:23:07 -0000 Martin Bjorklund writes: >(*) section 5 might be needed unless we make include-by revision >mandatory. But I think I am the only one that thinks that would be a >good solution. I wouldn't say make it mandatory, but certainly mandatory for anything externally published, including IETF work. Using revision agnostic imports might be suitable for internal and development work, but once a spec is supposed to be fixed and hardened, all imports should be by-revision. >+1. A lot of the confusion comes from this. Obviously, the spec is >not clear on this - it doesn't specify what it means to "implement" a >module. Yes, this should be clarified. >It must be ok to advertise b and a@2014-05-01. Yes, since the contract for 'a' remains in place. >A very simple alternative would be to not allow updated typedefs and >groupings at all. This shifts the version tracking task on to the author and reader. "foo_v2", "foo_v3", "foo_v2014-04-01", etc. The updating costs and possibility of errors would be significant. Thanks, Phil From nobody Wed Nov 19 07:56:06 2014 Return-Path: X-Original-To: netmod@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: netmod@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id B53811AD0B2 for ; Wed, 19 Nov 2014 07:56:04 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.902 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.902 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, SPF_HELO_PASS=-0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 2ephuUoIyofz for ; Wed, 19 Nov 2014 07:56:03 -0800 (PST) Received: from na01-by2-obe.outbound.protection.outlook.com (mail-by2on0116.outbound.protection.outlook.com [207.46.100.116]) (using TLSv1 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id DFD471AD0AD for ; Wed, 19 Nov 2014 07:56:02 -0800 (PST) Received: from BL2PR05CA0046.namprd05.prod.outlook.com (10.255.226.46) by DM2PR05MB448.namprd05.prod.outlook.com (10.141.104.152) with Microsoft SMTP Server (TLS) id 15.1.16.15; Wed, 19 Nov 2014 15:56:01 +0000 Received: from BN1AFFO11FD014.protection.gbl (2a01:111:f400:7c10::130) by BL2PR05CA0046.outlook.office365.com (2a01:111:e400:c04::46) with Microsoft SMTP Server (TLS) id 15.1.16.15 via Frontend Transport; Wed, 19 Nov 2014 15:56:00 +0000 Received: from P-EMF03-SAC.jnpr.net (66.129.239.17) by BN1AFFO11FD014.mail.protection.outlook.com (10.58.52.74) with Microsoft SMTP Server (TLS) id 15.1.6.13 via Frontend Transport; Wed, 19 Nov 2014 15:56:00 +0000 Received: from magenta.juniper.net (172.17.27.123) by P-EMF03-SAC.jnpr.net (172.24.192.21) with Microsoft SMTP Server (TLS) id 14.3.146.0; Wed, 19 Nov 2014 07:55:46 -0800 Received: from idle.juniper.net (idleski.juniper.net [172.25.4.26]) by magenta.juniper.net (8.11.3/8.11.3) with ESMTP id sAJFtjR82420; Wed, 19 Nov 2014 07:55:45 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from phil@juniper.net) Received: from idle.juniper.net (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by idle.juniper.net (8.14.4/8.14.3) with ESMTP id sAJFtVLk089624; Wed, 19 Nov 2014 10:55:31 -0500 (EST) (envelope-from phil@idle.juniper.net) Message-ID: <201411191555.sAJFtVLk089624@idle.juniper.net> To: Martin Bjorklund In-Reply-To: <20141119.103238.1348117780468090218.mbj@tail-f.com> Date: Wed, 19 Nov 2014 10:55:31 -0500 From: Phil Shafer MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain X-EOPAttributedMessage: 0 Received-SPF: SoftFail (protection.outlook.com: domain of transitioning juniper.net discourages use of 66.129.239.17 as permitted sender) Authentication-Results: spf=softfail (sender IP is 66.129.239.17) smtp.mailfrom=phil@juniper.net; X-Forefront-Antispam-Report: CIP:66.129.239.17; CTRY:US; IPV:NLI; EFV:NLI; SFV:NSPM; SFS:(10019020)(979002)(6009001)(199003)(189002)(164054003)(5423002)(46102003)(50986999)(230783001)(47776003)(20776003)(64706001)(107046002)(110136001)(87936001)(95666004)(50466002)(92566001)(54356999)(84676001)(92726001)(86362001)(81156004)(77156002)(106466001)(103666002)(44976005)(69596002)(48376002)(97736003)(870100002)(105596002)(120916001)(62966003)(21056001)(4396001)(6806004)(99396003)(102836001)(53416004)(31966008)(76506005)(68736004)(969003)(989001)(999001)(1009001)(1019001); DIR:OUT; SFP:1102; SCL:1; SRVR:DM2PR05MB448; H:P-EMF03-SAC.jnpr.net; FPR:; MLV:ovrnspm; PTR:InfoDomainNonexistent; A:1; MX:1; LANG:en; X-Microsoft-Antispam: UriScan:; X-Microsoft-Antispam: BCL:0;PCL:0;RULEID:;SRVR:DM2PR05MB448; X-Exchange-Antispam-Report-Test: UriScan:; X-Exchange-Antispam-Report-CFA-Test: BCL:0;PCL:0;RULEID:;SRVR:DM2PR05MB448; X-Forefront-PRVS: 04004D94E2 X-Exchange-Antispam-Report-CFA-Test: BCL:0;PCL:0;RULEID:;SRVR:DM2PR05MB448; X-OriginatorOrg: juniper.net Archived-At: http://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/netmod/uglaguw9PRnm-LtZm_Swux3Kijo Cc: netmod@ietf.org Subject: Re: [netmod] Y03: allow if-feature in refine (Was: YANG 1.1 virtual interim 2014-11-19) X-BeenThere: netmod@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: NETMOD WG list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 19 Nov 2014 15:56:04 -0000 FWIW, the answers were: Martin Bjorklund writes: >> Does this mean the 'refine' is done if that expression is true, >> or that the refined target gets an new 'if-feature' statement? if-features are added, not a conditional of the refine. >> Does this if-feature replace an existing if-feature under the >> target or add to it? refine adds new if-feature expressions. >>How does one remove an if-feature? You cannot. Thanks, Phil From nobody Wed Nov 19 09:01:11 2014 Return-Path: X-Original-To: netmod@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: netmod@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7B9E31A1A28 for ; Wed, 19 Nov 2014 09:01:08 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.902 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.902 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, SPF_HELO_PASS=-0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id OYXfJLqRNdnu for ; Wed, 19 Nov 2014 09:01:05 -0800 (PST) Received: from na01-bn1-obe.outbound.protection.outlook.com (mail-bn1on0749.outbound.protection.outlook.com [IPv6:2a01:111:f400:fc10::749]) (using TLSv1 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id BB62A1AD386 for ; Wed, 19 Nov 2014 09:00:55 -0800 (PST) Received: from BL2PR05CA0016.namprd05.prod.outlook.com (10.255.226.16) by CO1PR05MB442.namprd05.prod.outlook.com (10.141.73.146) with Microsoft SMTP Server (TLS) id 15.1.16.15; Wed, 19 Nov 2014 17:00:33 +0000 Received: from BL2FFO11FD005.protection.gbl (2a01:111:e400:7c09:9c8e:99ff:fe19:e0a6) by BL2PR05CA0016.outlook.office365.com (2a01:111:e400:c04::16) with Microsoft SMTP Server (TLS) id 15.1.26.15 via Frontend Transport; Wed, 19 Nov 2014 17:00:32 +0000 Received: from P-EMF03-SAC.jnpr.net (66.129.239.17) by BL2FFO11FD005.mail.protection.outlook.com (10.173.161.1) with Microsoft SMTP Server (TLS) id 15.1.6.13 via Frontend Transport; Wed, 19 Nov 2014 17:00:31 +0000 Received: from magenta.juniper.net (172.17.27.123) by P-EMF03-SAC.jnpr.net (172.24.192.21) with Microsoft SMTP Server (TLS) id 14.3.146.0; Wed, 19 Nov 2014 09:00:10 -0800 Received: from idle.juniper.net (idleski.juniper.net [172.25.4.26]) by magenta.juniper.net (8.11.3/8.11.3) with ESMTP id sAJGxlR27103; Wed, 19 Nov 2014 09:00:06 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from phil@juniper.net) Received: from idle.juniper.net (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by idle.juniper.net (8.14.4/8.14.3) with ESMTP id sAJGxW6i089973; Wed, 19 Nov 2014 11:59:33 -0500 (EST) (envelope-from phil@idle.juniper.net) Message-ID: <201411191659.sAJGxW6i089973@idle.juniper.net> To: Martin Bjorklund In-Reply-To: <20141119.111154.217079456944529909.mbj@tail-f.com> Date: Wed, 19 Nov 2014 11:59:32 -0500 From: Phil Shafer MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain X-EOPAttributedMessage: 0 X-Forefront-Antispam-Report: CIP:66.129.239.17; CTRY:US; IPV:NLI; EFV:NLI; SFV:NSPM; SFS:(10019020)(6009001)(189002)(51704005)(5423002)(164054003)(199003)(31966008)(53416004)(87936001)(97736003)(21056001)(81156004)(107046002)(120916001)(106466001)(77156002)(95666004)(870100002)(105596002)(68736004)(69596002)(50466002)(44976005)(230783001)(48376002)(84676001)(6806004)(92566001)(102836001)(47776003)(92726001)(86362001)(4396001)(99396003)(62966003)(20776003)(76506005)(50986999)(64706001)(103666002)(54356999)(46102003)(110136001); DIR:OUT; SFP:1102; SCL:1; SRVR:CO1PR05MB442; H:P-EMF03-SAC.jnpr.net; FPR:; MLV:ovrnspm; PTR:InfoDomainNonexistent; MX:1; A:1; LANG:en; X-Microsoft-Antispam: UriScan:; X-Microsoft-Antispam: BCL:0;PCL:0;RULEID:;SRVR:CO1PR05MB442; X-Exchange-Antispam-Report-Test: UriScan:; X-Exchange-Antispam-Report-CFA-Test: BCL:0;PCL:0;RULEID:;SRVR:CO1PR05MB442; X-Forefront-PRVS: 04004D94E2 Received-SPF: SoftFail (protection.outlook.com: domain of transitioning juniper.net discourages use of 66.129.239.17 as permitted sender) Authentication-Results: spf=softfail (sender IP is 66.129.239.17) smtp.mailfrom=phil@juniper.net; X-Exchange-Antispam-Report-CFA-Test: BCL:0;PCL:0;RULEID:;SRVR:CO1PR05MB442; X-OriginatorOrg: juniper.net Archived-At: http://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/netmod/-aleCtELUPCuvv08KROKZ8ERqh4 Cc: netmod@ietf.org Subject: Re: [netmod] Y26: mandatory nodes in augment (Was: YANG 1.1 virtual interim 2014-11-19) X-BeenThere: netmod@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: NETMOD WG list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 19 Nov 2014 17:01:08 -0000 Martin Bjorklund writes: >But the current rule is overly restrictive. For example, if a module >defines an identity, and at the same time an augment that is >conditional on that identity, it would be fine: > > identity ethernet { > base if:interface-type; > } > > augment /if:interfaces/if:interface { > when "if:type = 'ex:ethernet'"; > } So since only one that implements this module would be able to add the nodes in this module. Any client not understanding this module would not be able to create these nodes, and so would not need to know what is mandatory. Ok, I can see this, but how does one limit it to cases like this without opening clients to breakage? Thanks, Phil From nobody Wed Nov 19 09:10:38 2014 Return-Path: X-Original-To: netmod@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: netmod@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 05D2F1AD381 for ; Wed, 19 Nov 2014 09:10:30 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.902 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.902 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, SPF_HELO_PASS=-0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id cwjfVbOdnFej for ; Wed, 19 Nov 2014 09:10:16 -0800 (PST) Received: from na01-bl2-obe.outbound.protection.outlook.com (mail-bl2on0114.outbound.protection.outlook.com [65.55.169.114]) (using TLSv1 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 626701AD399 for ; Wed, 19 Nov 2014 09:08:49 -0800 (PST) Received: from BLUPR05CA0064.namprd05.prod.outlook.com (10.141.20.34) by CO1PR05MB444.namprd05.prod.outlook.com (10.141.73.140) with Microsoft SMTP Server (TLS) id 15.1.16.15; Wed, 19 Nov 2014 17:08:47 +0000 Received: from BN1BFFO11FD014.protection.gbl (2a01:111:f400:7c10::1:128) by BLUPR05CA0064.outlook.office365.com (2a01:111:e400:855::34) with Microsoft SMTP Server (TLS) id 15.1.16.15 via Frontend Transport; Wed, 19 Nov 2014 17:08:46 +0000 Received: from P-EMF03-SAC.jnpr.net (66.129.239.17) by BN1BFFO11FD014.mail.protection.outlook.com (10.58.144.77) with Microsoft SMTP Server (TLS) id 15.1.6.13 via Frontend Transport; Wed, 19 Nov 2014 17:08:45 +0000 Received: from magenta.juniper.net (172.17.27.123) by P-EMF03-SAC.jnpr.net (172.24.192.21) with Microsoft SMTP Server (TLS) id 14.3.146.0; Wed, 19 Nov 2014 09:08:41 -0800 Received: from idle.juniper.net (idleski.juniper.net [172.25.4.26]) by magenta.juniper.net (8.11.3/8.11.3) with ESMTP id sAJH8SR35101; Wed, 19 Nov 2014 09:08:38 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from phil@juniper.net) Received: from idle.juniper.net (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by idle.juniper.net (8.14.4/8.14.3) with ESMTP id sAJH88ST090107; Wed, 19 Nov 2014 12:08:09 -0500 (EST) (envelope-from phil@idle.juniper.net) Message-ID: <201411191708.sAJH88ST090107@idle.juniper.net> To: Martin Bjorklund In-Reply-To: <20141119.111524.1777990919940157291.mbj@tail-f.com> Date: Wed, 19 Nov 2014 12:08:08 -0500 From: Phil Shafer MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain X-EOPAttributedMessage: 0 Received-SPF: SoftFail (protection.outlook.com: domain of transitioning juniper.net discourages use of 66.129.239.17 as permitted sender) Authentication-Results: spf=softfail (sender IP is 66.129.239.17) smtp.mailfrom=phil@juniper.net; X-Forefront-Antispam-Report: CIP:66.129.239.17; CTRY:US; IPV:NLI; EFV:NLI; SFV:NSPM; SFS:(10019020)(6009001)(199003)(5423002)(164054003)(189002)(87936001)(561944003)(53416004)(103666002)(102836001)(44976005)(6806004)(68736004)(69596002)(107046002)(62966003)(81156004)(77156002)(20776003)(64706001)(47776003)(120916001)(50986999)(21056001)(54356999)(230783001)(99396003)(106466001)(97736003)(95666004)(76506005)(46102003)(31966008)(92726001)(84676001)(110136001)(86362001)(48376002)(92566001)(105596002)(50466002)(4396001); DIR:OUT; SFP:1102; SCL:1; SRVR:CO1PR05MB444; H:P-EMF03-SAC.jnpr.net; FPR:; MLV:sfv; PTR:InfoDomainNonexistent; A:1; MX:1; LANG:en; X-Microsoft-Antispam: UriScan:; X-Microsoft-Antispam: BCL:0;PCL:0;RULEID:;SRVR:CO1PR05MB444; X-Exchange-Antispam-Report-Test: UriScan:; X-Exchange-Antispam-Report-CFA-Test: BCL:0;PCL:0;RULEID:;SRVR:CO1PR05MB444; X-Forefront-PRVS: 04004D94E2 X-Exchange-Antispam-Report-CFA-Test: BCL:0;PCL:0;RULEID:;SRVR:CO1PR05MB444; X-OriginatorOrg: juniper.net Archived-At: http://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/netmod/qhs4GPGHw6pI4KGZDThFAHr7xEM Cc: netmod@ietf.org Subject: Re: [netmod] Y34: remove anyxml (Was: YANG 1.1 virtual interim 2014-11-19) X-BeenThere: netmod@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: NETMOD WG list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 19 Nov 2014 17:10:30 -0000 Martin Bjorklund writes: >> I'm not following why anyxml is being considered for removal. >> I consider it an important feature and strongly object. >The problem is that it is encoding-specifc. In most case where it is >used, what we really mean is "any data modelled with YANG". Hence, >the proposal Y34-02 suggests we add 'anydata' for this purpose. Such >data can be encoded in XML or JSON. I take is as a given that there's no realistic say to round trip between arbitrary XML and arbitrary JSON (or whatever else the future may hold for other potential non-NETCONF uses of YANG). So the choices are to keep anyxml or replace it with a string. I would be strongly against the latter. anyxml allows one to carry opaque chunks of XML in a YANG data model. Consider the recent proxy feature as spec'd in the "peer mount" draft and how easily anyxml allows the encapsulation of subhierarchies of data within a parent hierarchy. This is just the sort of problem anyxml was meant to address. Or consider the need for undocumented content. In JUNOS, we put undocumented configuration under an "anyxml undocumented" member so we can transmit our secrets without documenting them. Clients can validate the known parts of their config without tripping on the unknown parts. anyxml is a useful feature and should not be removed. Thanks, Phil From nobody Wed Nov 19 09:12:49 2014 Return-Path: X-Original-To: netmod@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: netmod@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id D0F321AD394 for ; Wed, 19 Nov 2014 09:12:45 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.902 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.902 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, SPF_HELO_PASS=-0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 4_1q5EmFaxv1 for ; Wed, 19 Nov 2014 09:12:36 -0800 (PST) Received: from na01-bl2-obe.outbound.protection.outlook.com (mail-bl2on0117.outbound.protection.outlook.com [65.55.169.117]) (using TLSv1 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id BD0851AD363 for ; Wed, 19 Nov 2014 09:12:16 -0800 (PST) Received: from BY2PR05CA061.namprd05.prod.outlook.com (10.141.250.51) by DM2PR05MB447.namprd05.prod.outlook.com (10.141.104.150) with Microsoft SMTP Server (TLS) id 15.1.16.15; Wed, 19 Nov 2014 17:12:13 +0000 Received: from BN1BFFO11FD035.protection.gbl (2a01:111:f400:7c10::1:111) by BY2PR05CA061.outlook.office365.com (2a01:111:e400:2c5f::51) with Microsoft SMTP Server (TLS) id 15.1.16.15 via Frontend Transport; Wed, 19 Nov 2014 17:12:13 +0000 Received: from P-EMF03-SAC.jnpr.net (66.129.239.17) by BN1BFFO11FD035.mail.protection.outlook.com (10.58.144.98) with Microsoft SMTP Server (TLS) id 15.1.6.13 via Frontend Transport; Wed, 19 Nov 2014 17:12:12 +0000 Received: from magenta.juniper.net (172.17.27.123) by P-EMF03-SAC.jnpr.net (172.24.192.21) with Microsoft SMTP Server (TLS) id 14.3.146.0; Wed, 19 Nov 2014 09:12:09 -0800 Received: from idle.juniper.net (idleski.juniper.net [172.25.4.26]) by magenta.juniper.net (8.11.3/8.11.3) with ESMTP id sAJHBpR38010; Wed, 19 Nov 2014 09:12:06 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from phil@juniper.net) Received: from idle.juniper.net (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by idle.juniper.net (8.14.4/8.14.3) with ESMTP id sAJHBVf8090155; Wed, 19 Nov 2014 12:11:31 -0500 (EST) (envelope-from phil@idle.juniper.net) Message-ID: <201411191711.sAJHBVf8090155@idle.juniper.net> To: Martin Bjorklund In-Reply-To: <20141119.112136.11542582008308989.mbj@tail-f.com> Date: Wed, 19 Nov 2014 12:11:31 -0500 From: Phil Shafer MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain X-EOPAttributedMessage: 0 Received-SPF: SoftFail (protection.outlook.com: domain of transitioning juniper.net discourages use of 66.129.239.17 as permitted sender) Authentication-Results: spf=softfail (sender IP is 66.129.239.17) smtp.mailfrom=phil@juniper.net; X-Forefront-Antispam-Report: CIP:66.129.239.17; CTRY:US; IPV:NLI; EFV:NLI; SFV:NSPM; SFS:(10019020)(979002)(6009001)(189002)(164054003)(5423002)(199003)(48376002)(44976005)(84676001)(62966003)(103666002)(77156002)(97736003)(81156004)(86362001)(106466001)(105596002)(53416004)(68736004)(69596002)(31966008)(76506005)(19580395003)(6806004)(99396003)(102836001)(92566001)(95666004)(4396001)(120916001)(92726001)(20776003)(47776003)(46102003)(110136001)(64706001)(107046002)(54356999)(230783001)(50466002)(21056001)(87936001)(50986999)(969003)(989001)(999001)(1009001)(1019001); DIR:OUT; SFP:1102; SCL:1; SRVR:DM2PR05MB447; H:P-EMF03-SAC.jnpr.net; FPR:; MLV:ovrnspm; PTR:InfoDomainNonexistent; MX:1; A:1; LANG:en; X-Microsoft-Antispam: UriScan:; X-Microsoft-Antispam: BCL:0;PCL:0;RULEID:;SRVR:DM2PR05MB447; X-Exchange-Antispam-Report-Test: UriScan:; X-Exchange-Antispam-Report-CFA-Test: BCL:0;PCL:0;RULEID:;SRVR:DM2PR05MB447; X-Forefront-PRVS: 04004D94E2 X-Exchange-Antispam-Report-CFA-Test: BCL:0;PCL:0;RULEID:;SRVR:DM2PR05MB447; X-OriginatorOrg: juniper.net Archived-At: http://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/netmod/qvFS6ZlFFOSrKo6BurXdysKVUvk Cc: netmod@ietf.org Subject: Re: [netmod] Y58: actions (Was: YANG 1.1 virtual interim 2014-11-19) X-BeenThere: netmod@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: NETMOD WG list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 19 Nov 2014 17:12:46 -0000 Martin Bjorklund writes: >Why do we have hieararcical data models; we could as well have all >lists and leafs at the top-level. Why do you (presumably) not store >all your files in your home directory? Why do you not say "/etc/motd.copy(/tmp/foo)"? YANG data is the target of operations. YANG doesn't define a hierarchy of objects, but a hierarchy of data. There's nothing object-oriented in our approach. Thanks, Phil From nobody Wed Nov 19 09:52:41 2014 Return-Path: X-Original-To: netmod@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: netmod@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id A56D21AD3BD for ; Wed, 19 Nov 2014 09:52:39 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.495 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.495 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, RP_MATCHES_RCVD=-0.594, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id AkMjI9xeJqfh for ; Wed, 19 Nov 2014 09:52:38 -0800 (PST) Received: from mail.tail-f.com (mail.tail-f.com [83.241.162.140]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0D9D11AD3A3 for ; Wed, 19 Nov 2014 09:52:38 -0800 (PST) Received: from localhost (unknown [193.13.112.215]) by mail.tail-f.com (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id E9BD01280988; Wed, 19 Nov 2014 18:52:36 +0100 (CET) Date: Wed, 19 Nov 2014 18:52:44 +0100 (CET) Message-Id: <20141119.185244.71765139292686917.mbj@tail-f.com> To: phil@juniper.net From: Martin Bjorklund In-Reply-To: <201411191659.sAJGxW6i089973@idle.juniper.net> References: <20141119.111154.217079456944529909.mbj@tail-f.com> <201411191659.sAJGxW6i089973@idle.juniper.net> X-Mailer: Mew version 6.5 on Emacs 24.3 / Mule 6.0 (HANACHIRUSATO) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: Text/Plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Archived-At: http://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/netmod/X1SNiRdT8PKDfZOb6bAFuEu2K6E Cc: netmod@ietf.org Subject: Re: [netmod] Y26: mandatory nodes in augment X-BeenThere: netmod@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: NETMOD WG list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 19 Nov 2014 17:52:39 -0000 Phil Shafer wrote: > Martin Bjorklund writes: > >But the current rule is overly restrictive. For example, if a module > >defines an identity, and at the same time an augment that is > >conditional on that identity, it would be fine: > > > > identity ethernet { > > base if:interface-type; > > } > > > > augment /if:interfaces/if:interface { > > when "if:type = 'ex:ethernet'"; > > } > > So since only one that implements this module would be > able to add the nodes in this module. Any client not > understanding this module would not be able to create > these nodes, and so would not need to know what is > mandatory. > > Ok, I can see this, but how does one limit it to cases like this > without opening clients to breakage? Right, this is why we have: The proposal is to add general guiding rules that backwards compatibility needs to be maintained. Lets see whether someone can write more concrete rules when mandatory nodes in augment are allowed. :) /martin From nobody Wed Nov 19 09:54:44 2014 Return-Path: X-Original-To: netmod@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: netmod@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 62CD81AD3F7 for ; Wed, 19 Nov 2014 09:54:26 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.495 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.495 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, RP_MATCHES_RCVD=-0.594, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id NlXzMCJxpj2o for ; Wed, 19 Nov 2014 09:54:24 -0800 (PST) Received: from mail.tail-f.com (mail.tail-f.com [83.241.162.140]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9247D1AD3F1 for ; Wed, 19 Nov 2014 09:54:24 -0800 (PST) Received: from localhost (unknown [193.13.112.215]) by mail.tail-f.com (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id D19D21280988; Wed, 19 Nov 2014 18:54:23 +0100 (CET) Date: Wed, 19 Nov 2014 18:54:31 +0100 (CET) Message-Id: <20141119.185431.1418351492001253435.mbj@tail-f.com> To: phil@juniper.net From: Martin Bjorklund In-Reply-To: <201411191708.sAJH88ST090107@idle.juniper.net> References: <20141119.111524.1777990919940157291.mbj@tail-f.com> <201411191708.sAJH88ST090107@idle.juniper.net> X-Mailer: Mew version 6.5 on Emacs 24.3 / Mule 6.0 (HANACHIRUSATO) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: Text/Plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Archived-At: http://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/netmod/ZbUdF_7vq-rHk1PJoy1pn3eKFXc Cc: netmod@ietf.org Subject: Re: [netmod] Y34: remove anyxml X-BeenThere: netmod@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: NETMOD WG list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 19 Nov 2014 17:54:26 -0000 Phil Shafer wrote: > Martin Bjorklund writes: > >> I'm not following why anyxml is being considered for removal. > >> I consider it an important feature and strongly object. > >The problem is that it is encoding-specifc. In most case where it is > >used, what we really mean is "any data modelled with YANG". Hence, > >the proposal Y34-02 suggests we add 'anydata' for this purpose. Such > >data can be encoded in XML or JSON. > > I take is as a given that there's no realistic say to round trip > between arbitrary XML and arbitrary JSON (or whatever else the > future may hold for other potential non-NETCONF uses of YANG). > So the choices are to keep anyxml or replace it with a string. > I would be strongly against the latter. anyxml allows one to > carry opaque chunks of XML in a YANG data model. > > Consider the recent proxy feature as spec'd in the "peer mount" > draft and how easily anyxml allows the encapsulation of subhierarchies > of data within a parent hierarchy. This is just the sort of problem > anyxml was meant to address. > > Or consider the need for undocumented content. In JUNOS, we put > undocumented configuration under an "anyxml undocumented" member > so we can transmit our secrets without documenting them. Clients > can validate the known parts of their config without tripping on > the unknown parts. > > anyxml is a useful feature and should not be removed. The proposal is (Y34-02): Keep 'anyxml'. Introduce 'anydata' 'anyxml' would still be used to represent unrestricted XML, as is done in NETCONF. 'anydata' would be an unknown chunk of data that can be modelled with YANG. Can be encoded as xml or json. /martin From nobody Wed Nov 19 11:50:00 2014 Return-Path: X-Original-To: netmod@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: netmod@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id F31E41A6F61 for ; Wed, 19 Nov 2014 11:49:55 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.144 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.144 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, HELO_EQ_DE=0.35, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, RP_MATCHES_RCVD=-0.594] autolearn=ham Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id WxBJrokOqBAR for ; Wed, 19 Nov 2014 11:49:51 -0800 (PST) Received: from atlas3.jacobs-university.de (atlas3.jacobs-university.de [212.201.44.18]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher AECDH-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 1BD031A6F59 for ; Wed, 19 Nov 2014 11:49:51 -0800 (PST) Received: from localhost (demetrius5.irc-it.jacobs-university.de [10.70.0.222]) by atlas3.jacobs-university.de (Postfix) with ESMTP id D3F4BFEB for ; Wed, 19 Nov 2014 20:49:49 +0100 (CET) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at jacobs-university.de Received: from atlas3.jacobs-university.de ([10.70.0.220]) by localhost (demetrius5.jacobs-university.de [10.70.0.222]) (amavisd-new, port 10030) with ESMTP id kVjZYZEuODyl for ; Wed, 19 Nov 2014 20:49:33 +0100 (CET) Received: from hermes.jacobs-university.de (hermes.jacobs-university.de [212.201.44.23]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (Client CN "hermes.jacobs-university.de", Issuer "Jacobs University CA - G01" (verified OK)) by atlas3.jacobs-university.de (Postfix) with ESMTPS for ; Wed, 19 Nov 2014 20:49:48 +0100 (CET) Received: from localhost (demetrius2.jacobs-university.de [212.201.44.47]) by hermes.jacobs-university.de (Postfix) with ESMTP id 36AB62002C for ; Wed, 19 Nov 2014 20:49:48 +0100 (CET) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at jacobs-university.de Received: from hermes.jacobs-university.de ([212.201.44.23]) by localhost (demetrius2.jacobs-university.de [212.201.44.32]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 4vG91_g6Mja3; Wed, 19 Nov 2014 20:47:08 +0100 (CET) Received: from elstar.local (elstar.jacobs.jacobs-university.de [10.50.231.133]) by hermes.jacobs-university.de (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2989920017; Wed, 19 Nov 2014 20:49:46 +0100 (CET) Received: by elstar.local (Postfix, from userid 501) id 911DD2FA6AC9; Wed, 19 Nov 2014 20:49:44 +0100 (CET) Date: Wed, 19 Nov 2014 20:49:43 +0100 From: Juergen Schoenwaelder To: netmod@ietf.org Message-ID: <20141119194941.GA93924@elstar.local> Mail-Followup-To: netmod@ietf.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="MGYHOYXEY6WxJCY8" Content-Disposition: inline User-Agent: Mutt/1.4.2.3i Archived-At: http://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/netmod/i9AjrOFzuls0ZK2Pi7v6AxxM8fA Subject: [netmod] minutes of the NETMOD 2014-11-19 virtual interim meeting X-BeenThere: netmod@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list Reply-To: Juergen Schoenwaelder List-Id: NETMOD WG list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 19 Nov 2014 19:49:56 -0000 --MGYHOYXEY6WxJCY8 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline Hi, attached are the minutes of the 2014-11-19 virtual interim meeting. Please let me know if something needs fixing. You can find all the virtual interim meeting minutes next to the YANG 1.1 issue list in the NETMOD WG subversion repository: http://svn.tools.ietf.org/svn/wg/netmod/yang-1.1/ /js -- Juergen Schoenwaelder Jacobs University Bremen gGmbH Phone: +49 421 200 3587 Campus Ring 1, 28759 Bremen, Germany Fax: +49 421 200 3103 --MGYHOYXEY6WxJCY8 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: attachment; filename="netmod-2014-11-19-minutes.txt" ============================================================= NETCONF Data Modeling Language WG (netmod) 8th YANG 1.1 Virtual Interim Wednesday, November 19, 2014, 16:00-18:00 CET Minutes Juergen Schoenwaelder ============================================================= * Participants - JS = Juergen Schoenwaelder - KW = Kent Watsen - LL = Lada Lhotka - MB = Martin Bjorklund - BL = Bing Lu - PS = Phil Shafer - GZ = Guangying Zheng - IB = Ignas Bagdonas - YY = Yangyang * 64-bit numbers in xpath expressions LL: I think this is a bug-fix issue to track. MB: Is this a real problem? Action: LL to write-up a new issue and to send it to the mailing list. * Y05 unprefixed path in top-level typedef MB: I proposed some text to resolve this in Y05-01 PS: I prefer consistency with groupings. LL: I think additional text should be added for derived typedefs. LL: Perhaps we need some usage guidelines, e.g. warnings about not using namespaces. Proposal: Adopt Y05-01. * Y09 introduce optional keys PS: I pointed out that not() can't be used that easily. PS: Many database technologies require keys. LL: I believe this is related to non-unique leaf lists (Y57), positional addressing could be used here as well. KW: Is the example in Y09-02 incomplete or a default lacking? LL: A default is not necessary. JS: Does this allow to add an optional leaf? JS: I believe we concluded that adding optional leafs can't be supported. PS: Adding an optional key breaks the initial contract. JS: If we can use optional keys only at initial module design time, how useful is this then? MB: This might still be useful, for example, if you define a new list derived from an old list. PS: I prefer to keep things simple. MB: Optional keys are valuable in cases such as supporting VRFs. KW: Perhaps we should only allow optional keys if there is a default? JS: This would be another solution, lets say Y09-03. JS: The type of the optional leaf key would have to allow for the special value and we would essentially document the usage of the special value in a machine readable way. PS: I think Y09-03 is a good compromise. MB: I prefer Y09-02 without the update for section 10. JS: How does this interact with the different default handling modes? PS: The server still needs to track internally whether a value was explicitly assigned or not. MB: I prefer Y09-02 since you do not need to invent a special value. MB: But Y09-03 is still better than nothing. MB: Y09-03 resolves the issue with the not() function since there is always a value for each key leaf. Action: MB to write-up Y09-03 as discussed above. Proposal: Adopt Y09-03. * Y16 module advertisement optimization MB: This issue has evolved since we have a separate conformance document now and the ietf-yang-library model has been proposed to be moved from RESTCONF to NETMOD PS: What is the reason to factor out conformance into a separate document? MB: Primarily document modularity. MB: Y54 suggests a complete removal of conformance announcements which I do not agree with. We should send a hash of the module capabilities so that a cache can quickly be verified. PS: Why do we not do the same for protocol capabilities? MB: We can only modify things defined in RFC 6020. Protocol capabilities are defined in RFC 6241. MB: I would like to move the NETCONF specific text into a separate document and this document would have to explain how advertisement works. PS: How do you get rid of the edit-config rules? MB: The idea is to move the rules, not to get rid of them. PS: What about the examples? Consider insertions into a list. LL: I like the proposal to move protocol specific text into a separate document KW: This is what we already do with RESTCONF. PS: YANG is a data modeling for NETCONF and I prefer to have it stay this way. PS: I do not mind YANG to be reused. I am concerned if NETCONF becomes a distant cousin instead the technology it came from. LL: But with RESTCONF things are already done differently. PS: It would be bad to have data models that are specific for NETCONF or RESTCONF MB: I agree that should be avoided. MB: Document size may be an issue - RFC 6020 is already fairly long. LL: People using RESTCONF do not benefit from the NETCONF specific content in RFC 6020. JS: The devil may be in the details. It may require to try out splitting the document in order to find out whether a split is workable. MB: I am willing to try but not if it is already clear from the beginning that this won't be accepted. JS: Please bring the discussion of the document structure to the mailing list so that people can comment. Based on the feedback, people can decide whether they are willing to prototype such a document split. MB: For the hashing, we would have a separate capability. Action: MB to add a new solution (Y16-03) that is covering the hash idea and the usage of ietf-yang-library. Proposal: Declare Y54 DEAD with a pointer that Y54 got subsumed by Y16. * Y18 fix "when" expression context problem LL: I added an example to Y18-01 and he believes this is problematic. MB: The example is just fine since the description does not talk about the order in which when expressions are evaluated. MB: The only problem are loops. LL: The xpath expressions cannot be evaluated in isolation anymore; the problem is that we are not evaluating against a fixed document but instead against something where nodes are added during the evaluation PS: So the question is how do you describe the context in which the expression for A is evaluated. KW: Is the example not missing mandatory true for leaf B? PS: No, B is not mandatory - it has a default and a when statement. PS: It is easy to say that the context includes objects that have a default value. But there is definitely an order going on, how do you describe it? MB: It is mostly recursive. KW: Call it the evaluation order. PS: How do we describe this order? LL: It is a dependency order of things appearing in when expressions. PS: Any nodes appearing in when expressions must be first evaluated before the current expression is evaluated. PS: For ../B to make sense, you first have create A. PS: If we define the context correctly, perhaps even circular issues go away. KW: A circular reference cannot be used to a fake context node, it has to be to a real one. MB: Still, is ../* circular or are fake nodes not considered in that case? MB: It seems we need to define the evaluation order somehow along the lines PS suggested. MB: We need to explain how the rest of the context is constructed. LL: This problem would not exist if when would only be allowed for augments. MB: The ordering issue would still have to be spelled out but the context node issue goes away. LL: Change the issue name by removing 'node'. Action: MB to draft some text concerning the order of when expression evaluations. --MGYHOYXEY6WxJCY8-- From nobody Wed Nov 19 12:31:45 2014 Return-Path: X-Original-To: netmod@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: netmod@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2C5331AD4FB for ; Wed, 19 Nov 2014 12:31:43 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -0.945 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-0.945 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, HELO_EQ_CZ=0.445, HOST_EQ_CZ=0.904, MIME_8BIT_HEADER=0.3, RP_MATCHES_RCVD=-0.594] autolearn=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id mcyyb9vzpoqe for ; Wed, 19 Nov 2014 12:31:41 -0800 (PST) Received: from mail.nic.cz (mail.nic.cz [IPv6:2001:1488:800:400::400]) (using TLSv1 with cipher ADH-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id D99AB1AD521 for ; Wed, 19 Nov 2014 12:31:29 -0800 (PST) Received: from [172.29.2.202] (unknown [77.48.225.7]) by mail.nic.cz (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 810AE13F9F3; Wed, 19 Nov 2014 21:31:27 +0100 (CET) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=simple/simple; d=nic.cz; s=default; t=1416429087; bh=lrXky+/3EbO0rUfY1CIWRzekknm40TwNu5c1PvpR0/s=; h=Content-Type:Mime-Version:Subject:From:In-Reply-To:Date:Cc: Content-Transfer-Encoding:Message-Id:References:To; b=eJramToxBBEbqLftTXisURSBt7VPVqs4XCUJL73YTYD+1QoqTKgCM8vgcfNCayV/r 0SNdM6PcUzcDWQDUxKSsHP9AcLsRAkOfpF8cFpuVPUriTG1fabQJBPr9DCuelSESKy kAYc2pv0jLtqUf7HTI49FCaor5K29P+sZXyeCKJs= Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 7.3 \(1878.6\)) From: Ladislav Lhotka In-Reply-To: <20141119.185431.1418351492001253435.mbj@tail-f.com> Date: Wed, 19 Nov 2014 21:31:26 +0100 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Message-Id: <3B8FF996-E077-442A-81C3-BD45A66DD6B7@nic.cz> References: <20141119.111524.1777990919940157291.mbj@tail-f.com> <201411191708.sAJH88ST090107@idle.juniper.net> <20141119.185431.1418351492001253435.mbj@tail-f.com> To: =?iso-8859-1?Q?Martin_Bj=F6rklund?= X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.1878.6) X-Virus-Scanned: clamav-milter 0.98.1 at mail X-Virus-Status: Clean Archived-At: http://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/netmod/eVNLQCrLP0vdBoB2yLCPAw7AIqA Cc: netmod@ietf.org Subject: Re: [netmod] Y34: remove anyxml X-BeenThere: netmod@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: NETMOD WG list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 19 Nov 2014 20:31:43 -0000 On 19 Nov 2014, at 18:54, Martin Bjorklund wrote: > Phil Shafer wrote: >> Martin Bjorklund writes: >>>> I'm not following why anyxml is being considered for removal. >>>> I consider it an important feature and strongly object. >>> The problem is that it is encoding-specifc. In most case where it = is >>> used, what we really mean is "any data modelled with YANG". Hence, >>> the proposal Y34-02 suggests we add 'anydata' for this purpose. = Such >>> data can be encoded in XML or JSON. >>=20 >> I take is as a given that there's no realistic say to round trip >> between arbitrary XML and arbitrary JSON (or whatever else the >> future may hold for other potential non-NETCONF uses of YANG). >> So the choices are to keep anyxml or replace it with a string. >> I would be strongly against the latter. anyxml allows one to >> carry opaque chunks of XML in a YANG data model. >>=20 >> Consider the recent proxy feature as spec'd in the "peer mount" >> draft and how easily anyxml allows the encapsulation of = subhierarchies >> of data within a parent hierarchy. This is just the sort of problem >> anyxml was meant to address. >>=20 >> Or consider the need for undocumented content. In JUNOS, we put >> undocumented configuration under an "anyxml undocumented" member >> so we can transmit our secrets without documenting them. Clients >> can validate the known parts of their config without tripping on >> the unknown parts. >>=20 >> anyxml is a useful feature and should not be removed. >=20 > The proposal is (Y34-02): >=20 > Keep 'anyxml'. Introduce 'anydata' >=20 > 'anyxml' would still be used to represent unrestricted XML, as is > done in NETCONF. >=20 > 'anydata' would be an unknown chunk of data that can be modelled > with YANG. Can be encoded as xml or json. IMO anydata should represent a chunk of data that is well-formed in the = given encoding but for which no schema is known or applied. There is no = need to exclude mixed content or attributes in XML, or things like [1, = null, false] in JSON. This means that for XML anydata and anyxml would mean the same. The = question remains what anyxml could mean for JSON. My preference would be = to declare anyxml as obsolete but equivalent to anydata. Lada >=20 >=20 >=20 > /martin >=20 > _______________________________________________ > netmod mailing list > netmod@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/netmod -- Ladislav Lhotka, CZ.NIC Labs PGP Key ID: E74E8C0C From nobody Wed Nov 19 12:43:13 2014 Return-Path: X-Original-To: netmod@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: netmod@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 539C61AD52A for ; Wed, 19 Nov 2014 12:43:08 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.602 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.602 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, MIME_8BIT_HEADER=0.3, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, SPF_HELO_PASS=-0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 6X-jI591hXJG for ; Wed, 19 Nov 2014 12:43:07 -0800 (PST) Received: from na01-bl2-obe.outbound.protection.outlook.com (mail-bl2on0121.outbound.protection.outlook.com [65.55.169.121]) (using TLSv1 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 2558F1AD593 for ; Wed, 19 Nov 2014 12:43:04 -0800 (PST) Received: from CO1PR05MB458.namprd05.prod.outlook.com (10.141.72.140) by CO1PR05MB460.namprd05.prod.outlook.com (10.141.72.152) with Microsoft SMTP Server (TLS) id 15.1.16.15; Wed, 19 Nov 2014 20:43:02 +0000 Received: from CO1PR05MB458.namprd05.prod.outlook.com ([169.254.10.239]) by CO1PR05MB458.namprd05.prod.outlook.com ([169.254.10.239]) with mapi id 15.01.0016.006; Wed, 19 Nov 2014 20:43:01 +0000 From: Kent Watsen To: Ladislav Lhotka , =?iso-8859-1?Q?Martin_Bj=F6rklund?= Thread-Topic: [netmod] Y34: remove anyxml Thread-Index: AQHQBCHpmz3GuNqMJkqnHa4Nok6u0JxoZ1EA//+vaoA= Date: Wed, 19 Nov 2014 20:43:01 +0000 Message-ID: References: <20141119.111524.1777990919940157291.mbj@tail-f.com> <201411191708.sAJH88ST090107@idle.juniper.net> <20141119.185431.1418351492001253435.mbj@tail-f.com> <3B8FF996-E077-442A-81C3-BD45A66DD6B7@nic.cz> In-Reply-To: <3B8FF996-E077-442A-81C3-BD45A66DD6B7@nic.cz> Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: user-agent: Microsoft-MacOutlook/14.4.4.140807 x-originating-ip: [66.129.239.13] x-microsoft-antispam: BCL:0;PCL:0;RULEID:;SRVR:CO1PR05MB460; x-exchange-antispam-report-test: UriScan:; x-exchange-antispam-report-cfa-test: BCL:0;PCL:0;RULEID:;SRVR:CO1PR05MB460; x-forefront-prvs: 04004D94E2 x-forefront-antispam-report: SFV:NSPM; SFS:(10019020)(979002)(6009001)(199003)(51704005)(189002)(83506001)(92726001)(122556002)(20776003)(66066001)(106356001)(31966008)(36756003)(77096003)(92566001)(95666004)(62966003)(77156002)(107046002)(21056001)(97736003)(99286002)(64706001)(87936001)(93886004)(40100003)(86362001)(105586002)(4396001)(54356999)(101416001)(76176999)(46102003)(106116001)(2656002)(50986999)(120916001)(99396003)(969003)(989001)(999001)(1009001)(1019001); DIR:OUT; SFP:1102; SCL:1; SRVR:CO1PR05MB460; H:CO1PR05MB458.namprd05.prod.outlook.com; FPR:; MLV:ovrnspm; PTR:InfoNoRecords; A:1; MX:1; LANG:en; Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-ID: Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable MIME-Version: 1.0 X-OriginatorOrg: juniper.net Archived-At: http://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/netmod/br8izDYj4rAzu-4D7EYbvyO-G6g Cc: "netmod@ietf.org" Subject: Re: [netmod] Y34: remove anyxml X-BeenThere: netmod@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: NETMOD WG list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 19 Nov 2014 20:43:08 -0000 >IMO anydata should represent a chunk of data that is well-formed in the >given encoding but for which no schema is known or applied. > >This means that for XML, anydata and anyxml would mean the same. This is my understanding as well. >The question remains what anyxml could mean for JSON. My preference would >be to declare anyxml as obsolete but equivalent to anydata. Could we alias anyxml to mean the same as anydata so that, despite its name, we get the same semantic? Kent From nobody Wed Nov 19 13:25:25 2014 Return-Path: X-Original-To: netmod@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: netmod@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id DA3051A888C for ; Wed, 19 Nov 2014 13:25:24 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.979 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.979 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, FM_FORGED_GMAIL=0.622, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW=-0.7, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id MLDocDHRUjqG for ; Wed, 19 Nov 2014 13:25:23 -0800 (PST) Received: from mail-qc0-f179.google.com (mail-qc0-f179.google.com [209.85.216.179]) (using TLSv1 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-RC4-SHA (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id D7C8C1A8887 for ; Wed, 19 Nov 2014 13:25:22 -0800 (PST) Received: by mail-qc0-f179.google.com with SMTP id c9so1150675qcz.24 for ; Wed, 19 Nov 2014 13:25:22 -0800 (PST) X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20130820; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:in-reply-to:references:date :message-id:subject:from:to:cc:content-type; bh=H81E25SUzacLhL9Azm2hgR03efqmnLTHVjxbB+dsxWQ=; b=iVFLAq5QN8zHFnhd+pfER1ih5lJhd1Qf7Yc8fOO1AXOmZ7fmohE+rXdMRe1fnWSLFW Vpy8yt3tlOXcDSJgsPnp3E0ZiHyTQHZ0lGDFOq1i3jtiL3jdz2lbnkUAC+OKjt5yHWhR QUbqy5C8cZmEW7r0DXy5RjX0arr9d8ZPSGXcMVLi1j9FOQRZXcZ35jerP6f6S0HS29rx M8rzG5ty0WXOspI57T3Lrc7qnOD0AHVVcra6jl0Unq72ulX+EJ9u7IZw0EI7f38Jf0tB Ap7C3NROg5Kst/1vISNSiyy+7HoIaXnzjgoWr68+qB0lHPSmZNL0Mxj8kPXoljvHEqUM 0cAg== X-Gm-Message-State: ALoCoQmxhDFXbddrOuCNug0wYW6a0wO2Buzc54dvq9Hw4UUXUzGn89U01U+w3jARN46zwmTQOmeb MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Received: by 10.140.34.21 with SMTP id k21mr53493613qgk.21.1416432321713; Wed, 19 Nov 2014 13:25:21 -0800 (PST) Received: by 10.140.37.52 with HTTP; Wed, 19 Nov 2014 13:25:21 -0800 (PST) In-Reply-To: References: <20141119.111524.1777990919940157291.mbj@tail-f.com> <201411191708.sAJH88ST090107@idle.juniper.net> <20141119.185431.1418351492001253435.mbj@tail-f.com> <3B8FF996-E077-442A-81C3-BD45A66DD6B7@nic.cz> Date: Wed, 19 Nov 2014 13:25:21 -0800 Message-ID: From: Andy Bierman To: Kent Watsen Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Archived-At: http://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/netmod/LUriPrh9lBBcSmqbt9tyHMQuF_4 Cc: "netmod@ietf.org" Subject: Re: [netmod] Y34: remove anyxml X-BeenThere: netmod@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: NETMOD WG list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 19 Nov 2014 21:25:25 -0000 On Wed, Nov 19, 2014 at 12:43 PM, Kent Watsen wrote: > >>IMO anydata should represent a chunk of data that is well-formed in the >>given encoding but for which no schema is known or applied. >> >>This means that for XML, anydata and anyxml would mean the same. > > This is my understanding as well. > Our tools have supported anyxml for years in all YANG contexts and I do not see any changes at all needed except to accept 2 names for the exact same thing. IMO, just add a note to YANG1.1 explaining the restricted and simple mapping to YANG: complex node --> container simple node w/non-zero length content --> string leaf simple node w/zero length content --> empty leaf All attributes processed (or ignored) but implementation-specific All other XML ignored Andy > >>The question remains what anyxml could mean for JSON. My preference would >>be to declare anyxml as obsolete but equivalent to anydata. > > > Could we alias anyxml to mean the same as anydata so that, despite its > name, we get the same semantic? > > > Kent > > > _______________________________________________ > netmod mailing list > netmod@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/netmod From nobody Wed Nov 19 13:35:42 2014 Return-Path: X-Original-To: netmod@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: netmod@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 95ACC1A88B5 for ; Wed, 19 Nov 2014 13:35:40 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.495 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.495 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, RP_MATCHES_RCVD=-0.594, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id s-RGr1QYHI-y for ; Wed, 19 Nov 2014 13:35:38 -0800 (PST) Received: from mail.tail-f.com (mail.tail-f.com [83.241.162.140]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id C12591A88AF for ; Wed, 19 Nov 2014 13:35:35 -0800 (PST) Received: from localhost (unknown [193.13.112.215]) by mail.tail-f.com (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id A6EF51280988; Wed, 19 Nov 2014 22:35:34 +0100 (CET) Date: Wed, 19 Nov 2014 22:35:44 +0100 (CET) Message-Id: <20141119.223544.1985588999034638127.mbj@tail-f.com> To: lhotka@nic.cz From: Martin Bjorklund In-Reply-To: <3B8FF996-E077-442A-81C3-BD45A66DD6B7@nic.cz> References: <201411191708.sAJH88ST090107@idle.juniper.net> <20141119.185431.1418351492001253435.mbj@tail-f.com> <3B8FF996-E077-442A-81C3-BD45A66DD6B7@nic.cz> X-Mailer: Mew version 6.5 on Emacs 24.3 / Mule 6.0 (HANACHIRUSATO) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: Text/Plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Archived-At: http://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/netmod/SmRLJ8HuoSGeMMh9mjOCeBpwinM Cc: netmod@ietf.org Subject: Re: [netmod] Y34: remove anyxml X-BeenThere: netmod@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: NETMOD WG list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 19 Nov 2014 21:35:40 -0000 Ladislav Lhotka wrote: > > On 19 Nov 2014, at 18:54, Martin Bjorklund wrote: > > > Phil Shafer wrote: > >> Martin Bjorklund writes: > >>>> I'm not following why anyxml is being considered for removal. > >>>> I consider it an important feature and strongly object. > >>> The problem is that it is encoding-specifc. In most case where it is > >>> used, what we really mean is "any data modelled with YANG". Hence, > >>> the proposal Y34-02 suggests we add 'anydata' for this purpose. Such > >>> data can be encoded in XML or JSON. > >> > >> I take is as a given that there's no realistic say to round trip > >> between arbitrary XML and arbitrary JSON (or whatever else the > >> future may hold for other potential non-NETCONF uses of YANG). > >> So the choices are to keep anyxml or replace it with a string. > >> I would be strongly against the latter. anyxml allows one to > >> carry opaque chunks of XML in a YANG data model. > >> > >> Consider the recent proxy feature as spec'd in the "peer mount" > >> draft and how easily anyxml allows the encapsulation of subhierarchies > >> of data within a parent hierarchy. This is just the sort of problem > >> anyxml was meant to address. > >> > >> Or consider the need for undocumented content. In JUNOS, we put > >> undocumented configuration under an "anyxml undocumented" member > >> so we can transmit our secrets without documenting them. Clients > >> can validate the known parts of their config without tripping on > >> the unknown parts. > >> > >> anyxml is a useful feature and should not be removed. > > > > The proposal is (Y34-02): > > > > Keep 'anyxml'. Introduce 'anydata' > > > > 'anyxml' would still be used to represent unrestricted XML, as is > > done in NETCONF. > > > > 'anydata' would be an unknown chunk of data that can be modelled > > with YANG. Can be encoded as xml or json. > > IMO anydata should represent a chunk of data that is well-formed in > the given encoding but for which no schema is known or applied. There > is no need to exclude mixed content or attributes in XML, or things > like [1, null, false] in JSON. I object to this interpretation. It's even worse than anyxml, since it means that the data is different depending on which encoding was used. My interpretation of anydata is an unknown chunk of data where the data is modelled w/ YANG, but the schema is unknown to us. But this doesn't really work in the sense that roundtripping from JSON to XML to JSON won't return the same result, since the XML representation might have prefixes used in the content (i-i and identyref again), and the JSON encoding is type-sensitive. /martin From nobody Wed Nov 19 13:45:38 2014 Return-Path: X-Original-To: netmod@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: netmod@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 512EF1A887C for ; Wed, 19 Nov 2014 13:45:35 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.902 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.902 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, SPF_HELO_PASS=-0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id joiOtcJEQKwu for ; Wed, 19 Nov 2014 13:45:32 -0800 (PST) Received: from na01-bn1-obe.outbound.protection.outlook.com (mail-bn1bon0768.outbound.protection.outlook.com [IPv6:2a01:111:f400:fc10::1:768]) (using TLSv1 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id EDD251A064C for ; Wed, 19 Nov 2014 13:45:31 -0800 (PST) Received: from CO2PR05CA043.namprd05.prod.outlook.com (10.141.241.171) by BN1PR05MB439.namprd05.prod.outlook.com (10.141.58.22) with Microsoft SMTP Server (TLS) id 15.1.16.15; Wed, 19 Nov 2014 21:45:09 +0000 Received: from BN1BFFO11FD017.protection.gbl (2a01:111:f400:7c10::1:167) by CO2PR05CA043.outlook.office365.com (2a01:111:e400:1429::43) with Microsoft SMTP Server (TLS) id 15.1.16.15 via Frontend Transport; Wed, 19 Nov 2014 21:45:08 +0000 Received: from P-EMF03-SAC.jnpr.net (66.129.239.17) by BN1BFFO11FD017.mail.protection.outlook.com (10.58.144.80) with Microsoft SMTP Server (TLS) id 15.1.6.13 via Frontend Transport; Wed, 19 Nov 2014 21:45:08 +0000 Received: from magenta.juniper.net (172.17.27.123) by P-EMF03-SAC.jnpr.net (172.24.192.21) with Microsoft SMTP Server (TLS) id 14.3.146.0; Wed, 19 Nov 2014 13:44:56 -0800 Received: from idle.juniper.net (idleski.juniper.net [172.25.4.26]) by magenta.juniper.net (8.11.3/8.11.3) with ESMTP id sAJLirR55204; Wed, 19 Nov 2014 13:44:53 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from phil@juniper.net) Received: from idle.juniper.net (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by idle.juniper.net (8.14.4/8.14.3) with ESMTP id sAJLidj7092681; Wed, 19 Nov 2014 16:44:40 -0500 (EST) (envelope-from phil@idle.juniper.net) Message-ID: <201411192144.sAJLidj7092681@idle.juniper.net> To: Martin Bjorklund In-Reply-To: <20141119.223544.1985588999034638127.mbj@tail-f.com> Date: Wed, 19 Nov 2014 16:44:39 -0500 From: Phil Shafer MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain X-EOPAttributedMessage: 0 Received-SPF: SoftFail (protection.outlook.com: domain of transitioning juniper.net discourages use of 66.129.239.17 as permitted sender) Authentication-Results: spf=softfail (sender IP is 66.129.239.17) smtp.mailfrom=phil@juniper.net; X-Forefront-Antispam-Report: CIP:66.129.239.17; CTRY:US; IPV:NLI; EFV:NLI; SFV:NSPM; SFS:(10019020)(6009001)(199003)(164054003)(51704005)(189002)(47776003)(105596002)(86362001)(92726001)(50466002)(106466001)(87936001)(48376002)(84676001)(6806004)(97736003)(102836001)(68736004)(69596002)(44976005)(81156004)(64706001)(4396001)(20776003)(92566001)(77156002)(62966003)(99396003)(95666004)(110136001)(46102003)(120916001)(50986999)(31966008)(107046002)(21056001)(54356999)(53416004)(103666002)(76506005); DIR:OUT; SFP:1102; SCL:1; SRVR:BN1PR05MB439; H:P-EMF03-SAC.jnpr.net; FPR:; MLV:sfv; PTR:InfoDomainNonexistent; A:1; MX:1; LANG:en; X-Microsoft-Antispam: UriScan:; X-Microsoft-Antispam: BCL:0;PCL:0;RULEID:;SRVR:BN1PR05MB439; X-Exchange-Antispam-Report-Test: UriScan:; X-Exchange-Antispam-Report-CFA-Test: BCL:0;PCL:0;RULEID:;SRVR:BN1PR05MB439; X-Forefront-PRVS: 04004D94E2 X-Exchange-Antispam-Report-CFA-Test: BCL:0;PCL:0;RULEID:;SRVR:BN1PR05MB439; X-OriginatorOrg: juniper.net Archived-At: http://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/netmod/0URBH3FICM9tjx1u73ZI88Y2I1o Cc: netmod@ietf.org Subject: Re: [netmod] Y34: remove anyxml X-BeenThere: netmod@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: NETMOD WG list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 19 Nov 2014 21:45:35 -0000 Martin Bjorklund writes: >I object to this interpretation. It's even worse than anyxml, since >it means that the data is different depending on which encoding was >used. > >My interpretation of anydata is an unknown chunk of data where the data >is modelled w/ YANG, but the schema is unknown to us. > >But this doesn't really work in the sense that roundtripping from JSON >to XML to JSON won't return the same result, since the XML >representation might have prefixes used in the content (i-i and >identyref again), and the JSON encoding is type-sensitive. +1 to all. "data that is well-formed in the given encoding" means that you are making a modeling language that is suddenly _tightly_ bound to some encoding. I don't might RESTCONF as an alternative access method for NETCONF datastores, but strongly object to anything that breaks compatibility between YANG and NETCONF. Since round tripping is not possible, anyxml would have to rendered in JSON as a string. "anydata" would not work, unless it was an opaque string in both XML and JSON renderings. Thanks, Phil From nobody Wed Nov 19 13:46:14 2014 Return-Path: X-Original-To: netmod@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: netmod@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 810001A889F for ; Wed, 19 Nov 2014 13:46:11 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.9 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.9 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9] autolearn=ham Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id KhGI4ukVep9O for ; Wed, 19 Nov 2014 13:46:08 -0800 (PST) Received: from trail.lhotka.name (trail.lhotka.name [77.48.224.143]) (using TLSv1.1 with cipher AECDH-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 25B961A064C for ; Wed, 19 Nov 2014 13:46:07 -0800 (PST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by trail.lhotka.name (Postfix) with ESMTP id D7C8F5406F1 for ; Wed, 19 Nov 2014 22:46:05 +0100 (CET) Received: from trail.lhotka.name ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (trail.lhotka.name [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id jzy9gfKOVSi6 for ; Wed, 19 Nov 2014 22:46:00 +0100 (CET) Received: from localhost (unknown [172.29.2.202]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by trail.lhotka.name (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 2F829540154 for ; Wed, 19 Nov 2014 22:45:59 +0100 (CET) From: Ladislav Lhotka To: netmod@ietf.org User-Agent: Notmuch/0.18.1 (http://notmuchmail.org) Emacs/24.4.51.2 (x86_64-apple-darwin14.0.0) Date: Wed, 19 Nov 2014 22:45:59 +0100 Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Archived-At: http://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/netmod/WoEoakCXt1Hg5IyeQtIZL1FfdBE Subject: [netmod] new issue Y59 X-BeenThere: netmod@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: NETMOD WG list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 19 Nov 2014 21:46:11 -0000 Hi, as per an action item form today's interim, I propose the following issue to be added to the list. Lada PS. I committed it already to the Org source but not to HTML. ------------------------------------------------------------------- * NEW :Y59: restrict use of 64-bit numbers in XPath expressions ** Description Numbers in XPath 1.0 are double-precision floating-point. 64-bit numeric types in YANG (uint64, int64 and decimal64) exceed the precision of IEEE 754 values and their use in XPath expressions ("must" and "when" statements) is therefore unsafe. Example: For the leaf definition #+BEGIN_EXAMPLE leaf foo { type decimal64 { fraction-digits 18; } must ". = 1"; } #+END_EXAMPLE the value 1.00000000000000001 will successfully validate. This may lead to unexpected behavior and may be also used as an attack vector. ** Solution Y59-01 Add the following text to Sec. 6.4 (before 6.4.1): As XPath 1.0 only supports double-precision floating-point numbers, values of uint64, int64 and decimal64 types (Section 9.2 and 9.3) cannot be exactly represented in XPath expressions. Data nodes with these types therefore SHOULD NOT be used in numeric comparisons or in numeric XPath functions. -- Ladislav Lhotka, CZ.NIC Labs PGP Key ID: E74E8C0C From nobody Wed Nov 19 14:00:37 2014 Return-Path: X-Original-To: netmod@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: netmod@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1A2E21A8939 for ; Wed, 19 Nov 2014 14:00:36 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.495 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.495 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, RP_MATCHES_RCVD=-0.594, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id r78fUS2kS2Wi for ; Wed, 19 Nov 2014 14:00:34 -0800 (PST) Received: from mail.tail-f.com (mail.tail-f.com [83.241.162.140]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 39A591A88FA for ; Wed, 19 Nov 2014 14:00:33 -0800 (PST) Received: from localhost (unknown [193.13.112.215]) by mail.tail-f.com (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 068921280988; Wed, 19 Nov 2014 23:00:33 +0100 (CET) Date: Wed, 19 Nov 2014 23:00:42 +0100 (CET) Message-Id: <20141119.230042.326760756273955336.mbj@tail-f.com> To: phil@juniper.net From: Martin Bjorklund In-Reply-To: <201411192144.sAJLidj7092681@idle.juniper.net> References: <20141119.223544.1985588999034638127.mbj@tail-f.com> <201411192144.sAJLidj7092681@idle.juniper.net> X-Mailer: Mew version 6.5 on Emacs 24.3 / Mule 6.0 (HANACHIRUSATO) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: Text/Plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Archived-At: http://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/netmod/_7-Q2AZ4TseFekdmeP8QYGyk4uQ Cc: netmod@ietf.org Subject: Re: [netmod] Y34: remove anyxml X-BeenThere: netmod@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: NETMOD WG list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 19 Nov 2014 22:00:36 -0000 Phil Shafer wrote: > Martin Bjorklund writes: > >I object to this interpretation. It's even worse than anyxml, since > >it means that the data is different depending on which encoding was > >used. > > > >My interpretation of anydata is an unknown chunk of data where the data > >is modelled w/ YANG, but the schema is unknown to us. > > > >But this doesn't really work in the sense that roundtripping from JSON > >to XML to JSON won't return the same result, since the XML > >representation might have prefixes used in the content (i-i and > >identyref again), and the JSON encoding is type-sensitive. > > +1 to all. > > "data that is well-formed in the given encoding" means that you > are making a modeling language that is suddenly _tightly_ bound > to some encoding. I don't might RESTCONF as an alternative access > method for NETCONF datastores, but strongly object to anything > that breaks compatibility between YANG and NETCONF. > > Since round tripping is not possible, anyxml would have to rendered > in JSON as a string. "anydata" would not work, unless it was an > opaque string in both XML and JSON renderings. Actually, the existing anyxml has its own set of roundtripping problems. Consider this: module a { namespace urn:a; ... container x { anyxml y; } } and this payload: ... p0:baz ... You cannot simply store the string " p0:baz " and return it in get-config, since the prefixes won't be declared properly. Also you cannot parse the prefixes and store the uris, since the prefixes are used in the content. Fortunately, you *can* store the string, and all prefixes in effect, and in the get-config return: ... stored string goes here ... This also shows that "store anyxml as a string" in json doesn't work. /martin From nobody Wed Nov 19 14:01:04 2014 Return-Path: X-Original-To: netmod@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: netmod@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 905C31A88DB for ; Wed, 19 Nov 2014 14:01:02 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.979 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.979 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, FM_FORGED_GMAIL=0.622, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW=-0.7, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id GOg6MWxYCzxB for ; Wed, 19 Nov 2014 14:01:00 -0800 (PST) Received: from mail-qg0-f47.google.com (mail-qg0-f47.google.com [209.85.192.47]) (using TLSv1 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-RC4-SHA (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 1C6BC1A895D for ; Wed, 19 Nov 2014 14:00:51 -0800 (PST) Received: by mail-qg0-f47.google.com with SMTP id z60so1175461qgd.20 for ; Wed, 19 Nov 2014 14:00:50 -0800 (PST) X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20130820; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:in-reply-to:references:date :message-id:subject:from:to:cc:content-type; bh=UByl6Cuc+z76pTWQ7vOdzCjUO2c2aL6EodAML5mSbd4=; b=fxpD0Yo4viU+Ycxhnf1fcS8j56Ovg6o8/8LyjDklSAa1A2VcYqBz5GpPgyySb0jFMW Cl5SJrr2/eF5oyiWFIRDy9AlC60N6RrSmiIyY5wUxGgNqqmrQKhhffNXm5kNJcO3RAjj OGaNSD5ewm0HvLvG8HcWWIUKWggTe0/k//mzHkyreWt0H9dBHMIQ8+Ri6tc12s9zzJgC ba8slJtPGyUHkTxrJVij+2EK69iCbLHrNYuKfEKdj21nJ6DM5KVFZUBNqzLJqmgtB9kL /iTIa4e7Of7mnB1AYUE941GXvypcmqRSVmDK95sTf3mxWTh0Oh9nqHoIfeVQ1XBm1ep+ Aq9A== X-Gm-Message-State: ALoCoQmvCqkZtelvsfG6rTTZ9+XSg/Cr+lDcK49Fe2t8FOWc3ndpXN+S83DaEuXG7U8iqbZWu3A1 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Received: by 10.229.252.201 with SMTP id mx9mr12662341qcb.4.1416434450424; Wed, 19 Nov 2014 14:00:50 -0800 (PST) Received: by 10.140.37.52 with HTTP; Wed, 19 Nov 2014 14:00:50 -0800 (PST) In-Reply-To: <201411192144.sAJLidj7092681@idle.juniper.net> References: <20141119.223544.1985588999034638127.mbj@tail-f.com> <201411192144.sAJLidj7092681@idle.juniper.net> Date: Wed, 19 Nov 2014 14:00:50 -0800 Message-ID: From: Andy Bierman To: Phil Shafer Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Archived-At: http://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/netmod/WYgHkjTUF3l2b-dkPC59IxN6dGQ Cc: "netmod@ietf.org" Subject: Re: [netmod] Y34: remove anyxml X-BeenThere: netmod@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: NETMOD WG list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 19 Nov 2014 22:01:02 -0000 On Wed, Nov 19, 2014 at 1:44 PM, Phil Shafer wrote: > Martin Bjorklund writes: >>I object to this interpretation. It's even worse than anyxml, since >>it means that the data is different depending on which encoding was >>used. >> >>My interpretation of anydata is an unknown chunk of data where the data >>is modelled w/ YANG, but the schema is unknown to us. >> >>But this doesn't really work in the sense that roundtripping from JSON >>to XML to JSON won't return the same result, since the XML >>representation might have prefixes used in the content (i-i and >>identyref again), and the JSON encoding is type-sensitive. > > +1 to all. > > "data that is well-formed in the given encoding" means that you > are making a modeling language that is suddenly _tightly_ bound > to some encoding. I don't might RESTCONF as an alternative access > method for NETCONF datastores, but strongly object to anything > that breaks compatibility between YANG and NETCONF. > > Since round tripping is not possible, anyxml would have to rendered > in JSON as a string. "anydata" would not work, unless it was an > opaque string in both XML and JSON renderings. > Maybe I agree with you, except... Encoding anyxml as a string in JSON would be horrible. What can it be used for? Our running code for anyxml is just fine without any fixes to theoretical problems. Some details.... 1) parsing YANG data, not JSON data; If there is a conflict between the YANG and JSON type, YANG wins. 2) the XML or JSON does not follow any schema, so it doesn't matter if multiple container siblings are parsed (instead of list) or multiple leaf siblings (instead of leaf-list) 3) since there is no public schema, the client cannot expect much interoperability. Basic structure w/ containers and leafs may not even be supported. Stop trying to create rules for a chunk of data that intended to be without rules. > Thanks, > Phil > Andy > _______________________________________________ > netmod mailing list > netmod@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/netmod From nobody Wed Nov 19 14:33:04 2014 Return-Path: X-Original-To: netmod@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: netmod@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id F3F851A8895 for ; Wed, 19 Nov 2014 14:33:02 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.902 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.902 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, SPF_HELO_PASS=-0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id qUN_MJugpDTC for ; Wed, 19 Nov 2014 14:33:01 -0800 (PST) Received: from na01-bn1-obe.outbound.protection.outlook.com (mail-bn1on0744.outbound.protection.outlook.com [IPv6:2a01:111:f400:fc10::744]) (using TLSv1 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 16AA11A8821 for ; Wed, 19 Nov 2014 14:33:01 -0800 (PST) Received: from BLUPR05CA0049.namprd05.prod.outlook.com (10.141.20.19) by BLUPR05MB435.namprd05.prod.outlook.com (10.141.27.150) with Microsoft SMTP Server (TLS) id 15.1.26.15; Wed, 19 Nov 2014 22:32:38 +0000 Received: from BN1BFFO11FD021.protection.gbl (2a01:111:f400:7c10::1:112) by BLUPR05CA0049.outlook.office365.com (2a01:111:e400:855::19) with Microsoft SMTP Server (TLS) id 15.1.26.15 via Frontend Transport; Wed, 19 Nov 2014 22:32:38 +0000 Received: from P-EMF03-SAC.jnpr.net (66.129.239.17) by BN1BFFO11FD021.mail.protection.outlook.com (10.58.144.84) with Microsoft SMTP Server (TLS) id 15.1.6.13 via Frontend Transport; Wed, 19 Nov 2014 22:32:38 +0000 Received: from magenta.juniper.net (172.17.27.123) by P-EMF03-SAC.jnpr.net (172.24.192.21) with Microsoft SMTP Server (TLS) id 14.3.146.0; Wed, 19 Nov 2014 14:32:33 -0800 Received: from idle.juniper.net (idleski.juniper.net [172.25.4.26]) by magenta.juniper.net (8.11.3/8.11.3) with ESMTP id sAJMVkR92624; Wed, 19 Nov 2014 14:32:30 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from phil@juniper.net) Received: from idle.juniper.net (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by idle.juniper.net (8.14.4/8.14.3) with ESMTP id sAJMVXtm093081; Wed, 19 Nov 2014 17:31:33 -0500 (EST) (envelope-from phil@idle.juniper.net) Message-ID: <201411192231.sAJMVXtm093081@idle.juniper.net> To: Martin Bjorklund In-Reply-To: <20141119.230042.326760756273955336.mbj@tail-f.com> Date: Wed, 19 Nov 2014 17:31:33 -0500 From: Phil Shafer MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain X-EOPAttributedMessage: 0 Received-SPF: SoftFail (protection.outlook.com: domain of transitioning juniper.net discourages use of 66.129.239.17 as permitted sender) Authentication-Results: spf=softfail (sender IP is 66.129.239.17) smtp.mailfrom=phil@juniper.net; X-Forefront-Antispam-Report: CIP:66.129.239.17; CTRY:US; IPV:NLI; EFV:NLI; SFV:NSPM; SFS:(10019020)(6009001)(164054003)(189002)(199003)(51704005)(77156002)(62966003)(31966008)(106466001)(95666004)(107046002)(105596002)(81156004)(48376002)(50986999)(46102003)(4396001)(54356999)(110136001)(87936001)(92726001)(92566001)(21056001)(84676001)(97736003)(47776003)(86362001)(19580395003)(16601075003)(44976005)(69596002)(68736004)(20776003)(15202345003)(103666002)(99396003)(53416004)(50466002)(102836001)(120916001)(76506005)(15975445006)(6806004)(64706001); DIR:OUT; SFP:1102; SCL:1; SRVR:BLUPR05MB435; H:P-EMF03-SAC.jnpr.net; FPR:; SPF:SoftFail; MLV:sfv; PTR:InfoDomainNonexistent; MX:1; A:1; LANG:en; X-Microsoft-Antispam: UriScan:; X-Microsoft-Antispam: BCL:0;PCL:0;RULEID:;SRVR:BLUPR05MB435; X-Exchange-Antispam-Report-Test: UriScan:; X-Exchange-Antispam-Report-CFA-Test: BCL:0;PCL:0;RULEID:;SRVR:BLUPR05MB435; X-Forefront-PRVS: 04004D94E2 X-Exchange-Antispam-Report-CFA-Test: BCL:0;PCL:0;RULEID:;SRVR:BLUPR05MB435; X-OriginatorOrg: juniper.net Archived-At: http://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/netmod/Bc7V4pxht2ioxoB5bojAKWErCd8 Cc: netmod@ietf.org Subject: Re: [netmod] Y34: remove anyxml X-BeenThere: netmod@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: NETMOD WG list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 19 Nov 2014 22:33:03 -0000 Martin Bjorklund writes: >Fortunately, you *can* store the string, and all prefixes in effect, >and in the get-config return: > > xmlns:p1="http://example.com"> > ... stored string goes here ... > If we were smart, we would have been more pedantic about the XML being stand-alone. What's meant by this text (from XML Mapping rules in anyxml)? Note that any prefixes used in the encoding are local to each instance encoding. This means that the same XML may be encoded differently by different implementations. Thanks, Phil From nobody Thu Nov 20 00:12:10 2014 Return-Path: X-Original-To: netmod@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: netmod@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2885D1A00A8 for ; Thu, 20 Nov 2014 00:12:08 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.9 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.9 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9] autolearn=ham Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id GP2sXVVlXll9 for ; Thu, 20 Nov 2014 00:12:05 -0800 (PST) Received: from trail.lhotka.name (trail.lhotka.name [77.48.224.143]) (using TLSv1.1 with cipher AECDH-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 7ACA81A00C6 for ; Thu, 20 Nov 2014 00:12:00 -0800 (PST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by trail.lhotka.name (Postfix) with ESMTP id 88C9254057D; Thu, 20 Nov 2014 09:11:58 +0100 (CET) Received: from trail.lhotka.name ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (trail.lhotka.name [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id J9oA7PAEmF4o; Thu, 20 Nov 2014 09:11:51 +0100 (CET) Received: from localhost (unknown [195.113.220.254]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by trail.lhotka.name (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id B838D5404C8; Thu, 20 Nov 2014 09:11:50 +0100 (CET) From: Ladislav Lhotka To: Martin Bjorklund In-Reply-To: <20141119.223544.1985588999034638127.mbj@tail-f.com> References: <201411191708.sAJH88ST090107@idle.juniper.net> <20141119.185431.1418351492001253435.mbj@tail-f.com> <3B8FF996-E077-442A-81C3-BD45A66DD6B7@nic.cz> <20141119.223544.1985588999034638127.mbj@tail-f.com> User-Agent: Notmuch/0.18.1 (http://notmuchmail.org) Emacs/24.4.51.2 (x86_64-apple-darwin14.0.0) Date: Thu, 20 Nov 2014 09:11:49 +0100 Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Archived-At: http://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/netmod/yOtPXLK1Yra1AVPbpPYOj_KhC9I Cc: netmod@ietf.org Subject: Re: [netmod] Y34: remove anyxml X-BeenThere: netmod@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: NETMOD WG list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 20 Nov 2014 08:12:08 -0000 Martin Bjorklund writes: > Ladislav Lhotka wrote: >> >> IMO anydata should represent a chunk of data that is well-formed in >> the given encoding but for which no schema is known or applied. There >> is no need to exclude mixed content or attributes in XML, or things >> like [1, null, false] in JSON. > > I object to this interpretation. It's even worse than anyxml, since > it means that the data is different depending on which encoding was > used. Well-formedness guarantees that the server will be able to safely parse the data. Of course, well-formedness is encoding-specific. A different issue is whether the server is able to interpret the data, apply them, or translate them to another encoding. > > My interpretation of anydata is an unknown chunk of data where the data > is modelled w/ YANG, but the schema is unknown to us. The requirement that the data conform to *any* (even unknown) YANG model is insufficient: for anyxml configlet; the server expects data conforming to a very specific schema. If it receives BGP configuration instead, it is stuck. And if the module is not known, the server may be unable to translate the data to a different encoding, as you write below and elsewhere. So this restriction doesn't really aid interoperability. On the other hand, if the server does know the schema, it should be able to work easily with data that are not modelled with YANG, too. One use case that comes to my mind is exchanging YANG modules (or their parts) in the YIN format. Lada > > But this doesn't really work in the sense that roundtripping from JSON > to XML to JSON won't return the same result, since the XML > representation might have prefixes used in the content (i-i and > identyref again), and the JSON encoding is type-sensitive. > > > /martin -- Ladislav Lhotka, CZ.NIC Labs PGP Key ID: E74E8C0C From nobody Thu Nov 20 00:23:54 2014 Return-Path: X-Original-To: netmod@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: netmod@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 509501A00C6 for ; Thu, 20 Nov 2014 00:23:53 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.9 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.9 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9] autolearn=ham Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 2rvRbDZkcE1N for ; Thu, 20 Nov 2014 00:23:51 -0800 (PST) Received: from trail.lhotka.name (trail.lhotka.name [77.48.224.143]) (using TLSv1.1 with cipher AECDH-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 850E21A00BF for ; Thu, 20 Nov 2014 00:23:51 -0800 (PST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by trail.lhotka.name (Postfix) with ESMTP id 039F754057D; Thu, 20 Nov 2014 09:23:50 +0100 (CET) Received: from trail.lhotka.name ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (trail.lhotka.name [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id B-hdBTtuQAQZ; Thu, 20 Nov 2014 09:23:45 +0100 (CET) Received: from localhost (unknown [195.113.220.254]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by trail.lhotka.name (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 490545404C8; Thu, 20 Nov 2014 09:23:45 +0100 (CET) From: Ladislav Lhotka To: Phil Shafer , Martin Bjorklund In-Reply-To: <201411192144.sAJLidj7092681@idle.juniper.net> References: <201411192144.sAJLidj7092681@idle.juniper.net> User-Agent: Notmuch/0.18.1 (http://notmuchmail.org) Emacs/24.4.51.2 (x86_64-apple-darwin14.0.0) Date: Thu, 20 Nov 2014 09:23:44 +0100 Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Archived-At: http://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/netmod/TXxYua4TwAJUH1pb-kjftX2jZG0 Cc: netmod@ietf.org Subject: Re: [netmod] Y34: remove anyxml X-BeenThere: netmod@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: NETMOD WG list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 20 Nov 2014 08:23:53 -0000 Phil Shafer writes: > Martin Bjorklund writes: >>I object to this interpretation. It's even worse than anyxml, since >>it means that the data is different depending on which encoding was >>used. >> >>My interpretation of anydata is an unknown chunk of data where the data >>is modelled w/ YANG, but the schema is unknown to us. >> >>But this doesn't really work in the sense that roundtripping from JSON >>to XML to JSON won't return the same result, since the XML >>representation might have prefixes used in the content (i-i and >>identyref again), and the JSON encoding is type-sensitive. > > +1 to all. > > "data that is well-formed in the given encoding" means that you > are making a modeling language that is suddenly _tightly_ bound I don't get the tight binding: anydata has to be well-formed (legal) in whatever encoding that happens to be used. > to some encoding. I don't might RESTCONF as an alternative access > method for NETCONF datastores, but strongly object to anything > that breaks compatibility between YANG and NETCONF. NETCONF uses XML, and for XML anydata in my interpretation is exactly what anyxml is in YANG 1.0. Where does this break interoperability? > > Since round tripping is not possible, anyxml would have to rendered > in JSON as a string. "anydata" would not work, unless it was an > opaque string in both XML and JSON renderings. I disagree. Why should a JSON-only system be forced to work with serialized XML data? Lada > > Thanks, > Phil -- Ladislav Lhotka, CZ.NIC Labs PGP Key ID: E74E8C0C From nobody Thu Nov 20 00:38:42 2014 Return-Path: X-Original-To: netmod@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: netmod@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 00D941A00A7 for ; Thu, 20 Nov 2014 00:38:41 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.495 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.495 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, RP_MATCHES_RCVD=-0.594, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id nR2GJymeuVSY for ; Thu, 20 Nov 2014 00:38:39 -0800 (PST) Received: from mail.tail-f.com (mail.tail-f.com [83.241.162.140]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id EBC821A008B for ; Thu, 20 Nov 2014 00:38:38 -0800 (PST) Received: from localhost (173-38-208-169.cisco.com [173.38.208.169]) by mail.tail-f.com (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id A658312809D9; Thu, 20 Nov 2014 09:38:37 +0100 (CET) Date: Thu, 20 Nov 2014 09:38:37 +0100 (CET) Message-Id: <20141120.093837.304702467308462616.mbj@tail-f.com> To: lhotka@nic.cz From: Martin Bjorklund In-Reply-To: References: <201411192144.sAJLidj7092681@idle.juniper.net> X-Mailer: Mew version 6.5 on Emacs 23.4 / Mule 6.0 (HANACHIRUSATO) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: Text/Plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Archived-At: http://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/netmod/2slgPU5FOw3lpcMPJJ_kZDzKGRg Cc: netmod@ietf.org Subject: Re: [netmod] Y34: remove anyxml X-BeenThere: netmod@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: NETMOD WG list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 20 Nov 2014 08:38:41 -0000 Ladislav Lhotka wrote: > Phil Shafer writes: > > > Martin Bjorklund writes: > >>I object to this interpretation. It's even worse than anyxml, since > >>it means that the data is different depending on which encoding was > >>used. > >> > >>My interpretation of anydata is an unknown chunk of data where the data > >>is modelled w/ YANG, but the schema is unknown to us. > >> > >>But this doesn't really work in the sense that roundtripping from JSON > >>to XML to JSON won't return the same result, since the XML > >>representation might have prefixes used in the content (i-i and > >>identyref again), and the JSON encoding is type-sensitive. > > > > +1 to all. > > > > "data that is well-formed in the given encoding" means that you > > are making a modeling language that is suddenly _tightly_ bound > > I don't get the tight binding: anydata has to be well-formed (legal) in > whatever encoding that happens to be used. > > > to some encoding. I don't might RESTCONF as an alternative access > > method for NETCONF datastores, but strongly object to anything > > that breaks compatibility between YANG and NETCONF. > > NETCONF uses XML, and for XML anydata in my interpretation is exactly > what anyxml is in YANG 1.0. Where does this break interoperability? > > > > > Since round tripping is not possible, anyxml would have to rendered > > in JSON as a string. "anydata" would not work, unless it was an > > opaque string in both XML and JSON renderings. > > I disagree. Why should a JSON-only system be forced to work with > serialized XML data? The problem with encoding-specific anydata is that if you have such an instance in the datastore, the contents depends on which encoding was used to set it. Once set with one encoding, it cannot be retrieved using some other encoding. For example, one json-based restconf client sets it to some json structure, then another xml-based restconf client cannot read it. IMO, we should try to *remove* encoding specifics (i-i etc as we said before), not add to the problem. /martin From nobody Thu Nov 20 00:41:34 2014 Return-Path: X-Original-To: netmod@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: netmod@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9094C1A00AA for ; Thu, 20 Nov 2014 00:41:32 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.9 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.9 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9] autolearn=ham Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id V1-_k5bitLvr for ; Thu, 20 Nov 2014 00:41:30 -0800 (PST) Received: from trail.lhotka.name (trail.lhotka.name [77.48.224.143]) (using TLSv1.1 with cipher AECDH-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 5671D1A009E for ; Thu, 20 Nov 2014 00:41:30 -0800 (PST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by trail.lhotka.name (Postfix) with ESMTP id C5E8454057D; Thu, 20 Nov 2014 09:41:28 +0100 (CET) Received: from trail.lhotka.name ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (trail.lhotka.name [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id Z48AhJTgF+2K; Thu, 20 Nov 2014 09:41:24 +0100 (CET) Received: from localhost (unknown [195.113.220.254]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by trail.lhotka.name (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 6B7315404C8; Thu, 20 Nov 2014 09:41:24 +0100 (CET) From: Ladislav Lhotka To: Martin Bjorklund , phil@juniper.net In-Reply-To: <20141119.104651.1930940910444913825.mbj@tail-f.com> References: <201411181937.sAIJbguL080247@idle.juniper.net> <20141119.104651.1930940910444913825.mbj@tail-f.com> User-Agent: Notmuch/0.18.1 (http://notmuchmail.org) Emacs/24.4.51.2 (x86_64-apple-darwin14.0.0) Date: Thu, 20 Nov 2014 09:41:23 +0100 Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Archived-At: http://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/netmod/WZ01mtfGI7rWpFWHXr62Yakqb5E Cc: netmod@ietf.org Subject: Re: [netmod] Y09: optional keys (Was: YANG 1.1 virtual interim 2014-11-19) X-BeenThere: netmod@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: NETMOD WG list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 20 Nov 2014 08:41:32 -0000 Martin Bjorklund writes: > Phil Shafer wrote: >> * OPEN :Y09: introduce optional keys >> >> I don't understand the 'resolution' here. >> >> My concern is that optional keys make interaction with databases >> more difficult. Keys are mandatory for most databases. > > Implementation detail. Most databases do not support hierarchical > structures; yet we have that in YANG. > >> The usage of 'not(key)' in the second solution is not compatible >> with xpath expressions > > [...] > >> not(optional-key) would be true when the value is a numeric zero >> or a zero length string. > > Whoops. You are right. This would work: not(count(key)) - but looks > extremely weird. No, Phil is not right: $ cat test.xsl NOT PRESENT. $ cat test.xml $ cat test2.xml $ xsltproc test.xsl test.xml $ xsltproc test.xsl test2.xml NOT PRESENT. not(key) evaluates to true only if no element is present. The value doesn't matter. Lada > >> I would be against this change. Keeping keys mandatory is >> simpler and more straight forward. Those wanting an optional >> key can make a union type with a suitable 'missing' optional. > > That's what people are using currently - but it is an ugly > workaround. This affects the end user of the system, who has to > provide these "NULL" values. > > > /martin > > _______________________________________________ > netmod mailing list > netmod@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/netmod -- Ladislav Lhotka, CZ.NIC Labs PGP Key ID: E74E8C0C From nobody Thu Nov 20 00:44:41 2014 Return-Path: X-Original-To: netmod@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: netmod@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id B58731A009E for ; Thu, 20 Nov 2014 00:44:35 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.495 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.495 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, RP_MATCHES_RCVD=-0.594, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id puoRS5gU_Bbm for ; Thu, 20 Nov 2014 00:44:33 -0800 (PST) Received: from mail.tail-f.com (mail.tail-f.com [83.241.162.140]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 66DAC1A00FA for ; Thu, 20 Nov 2014 00:44:33 -0800 (PST) Received: from localhost (173-38-208-170.cisco.com [173.38.208.170]) by mail.tail-f.com (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 6E8171280098; Thu, 20 Nov 2014 09:44:32 +0100 (CET) Date: Thu, 20 Nov 2014 09:44:31 +0100 (CET) Message-Id: <20141120.094431.664236597197962863.mbj@tail-f.com> To: phil@juniper.net From: Martin Bjorklund In-Reply-To: <201411192231.sAJMVXtm093081@idle.juniper.net> References: <20141119.230042.326760756273955336.mbj@tail-f.com> <201411192231.sAJMVXtm093081@idle.juniper.net> X-Mailer: Mew version 6.5 on Emacs 23.4 / Mule 6.0 (HANACHIRUSATO) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: Text/Plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Archived-At: http://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/netmod/fpRBnPwyBqaZXvgcZmE1A92zay8 Cc: netmod@ietf.org Subject: Re: [netmod] Y34: remove anyxml X-BeenThere: netmod@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: NETMOD WG list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 20 Nov 2014 08:44:35 -0000 Phil Shafer wrote: > Martin Bjorklund writes: > >Fortunately, you *can* store the string, and all prefixes in effect, > >and in the get-config return: > > > > > xmlns:p1="http://example.com"> > > ... stored string goes here ... > > > > If we were smart, we would have been more pedantic about the XML > being stand-alone. Yes. But this goes back to the original NETCONF spec. It would have been nice if the different protoocl layers in NETCONF were constrained to being stand-alone: [stand-alone operation here] [stand-alone content here] Since we use anyxml to model things like edit-config content, we couldn't put the self-contained restriction on anyxml. > What's meant by this text (from XML Mapping rules in anyxml)? > > Note that any prefixes used in the encoding are local to each instance > encoding. This means that the same XML may be encoded differently by > different implementations. It means you cannot rely on the prefixes being the same after roundtripping. For example, you might set: 42 and get back 42 /martin From nobody Thu Nov 20 00:55:55 2014 Return-Path: X-Original-To: netmod@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: netmod@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id A6E2B1A00A3 for ; Thu, 20 Nov 2014 00:55:53 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.495 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.495 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, RP_MATCHES_RCVD=-0.594, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id B3l-tKigv66G for ; Thu, 20 Nov 2014 00:55:46 -0800 (PST) Received: from mail.tail-f.com (mail.tail-f.com [83.241.162.140]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id E4ADD1A00C0 for ; Thu, 20 Nov 2014 00:55:45 -0800 (PST) Received: from localhost (173-38-208-169.cisco.com [173.38.208.169]) by mail.tail-f.com (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 0C2D51280098; Thu, 20 Nov 2014 09:55:44 +0100 (CET) Date: Thu, 20 Nov 2014 09:55:44 +0100 (CET) Message-Id: <20141120.095544.241105593989651686.mbj@tail-f.com> To: lhotka@nic.cz From: Martin Bjorklund In-Reply-To: References: <201411181937.sAIJbguL080247@idle.juniper.net> <20141119.104651.1930940910444913825.mbj@tail-f.com> X-Mailer: Mew version 6.5 on Emacs 23.4 / Mule 6.0 (HANACHIRUSATO) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: Text/Plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Archived-At: http://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/netmod/jTjxvEqrF4ZZSiVh38lugAKJ4bo Cc: netmod@ietf.org Subject: Re: [netmod] Y09: optional keys X-BeenThere: netmod@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: NETMOD WG list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 20 Nov 2014 08:55:53 -0000 Ladislav Lhotka wrote: > Martin Bjorklund writes: > > > Phil Shafer wrote: > >> * OPEN :Y09: introduce optional keys > >> > >> I don't understand the 'resolution' here. > >> > >> My concern is that optional keys make interaction with databases > >> more difficult. Keys are mandatory for most databases. > > > > Implementation detail. Most databases do not support hierarchical > > structures; yet we have that in YANG. > > > >> The usage of 'not(key)' in the second solution is not compatible > >> with xpath expressions > > > > [...] > > > >> not(optional-key) would be true when the value is a numeric zero > >> or a zero length string. > > > > Whoops. You are right. This would work: not(count(key)) - but looks > > extremely weird. > > No, Phil is not right: [...] > not(key) evaluates to true only if no element is present. The > value doesn't matter. Good! Sorry for contributing to the confusion. Actually, Phil wrote: not(optional-key) would be true when the value is a numeric zero or a zero length string. which *is* true, but irrelevant. What is important for Y09-02 is that we have a representation of an instance-identifier for instances with unset optional keys, and that this representation gives the correct instance when evaluated as an XPath expression. /martin From nobody Thu Nov 20 01:04:39 2014 Return-Path: X-Original-To: netmod@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: netmod@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8C5451A00BD for ; Thu, 20 Nov 2014 01:04:36 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -0.945 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-0.945 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, HELO_EQ_CZ=0.445, HOST_EQ_CZ=0.904, MIME_8BIT_HEADER=0.3, RP_MATCHES_RCVD=-0.594] autolearn=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id HMJE4ZP0Fp3h for ; Thu, 20 Nov 2014 01:04:34 -0800 (PST) Received: from mail.nic.cz (mail.nic.cz [IPv6:2001:1488:800:400::400]) (using TLSv1 with cipher ADH-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 583FD1A0105 for ; Thu, 20 Nov 2014 01:04:34 -0800 (PST) Received: from [192.168.1.108] (unknown [195.113.220.254]) by mail.nic.cz (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id BB037140AC7; Thu, 20 Nov 2014 10:04:32 +0100 (CET) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=simple/simple; d=nic.cz; s=default; t=1416474272; bh=FJKL5D29/hHo4GM8yCKTWL3/oB0xGOirNUrpEyCZaUQ=; h=Content-Type:Mime-Version:Subject:From:In-Reply-To:Date:Cc: Content-Transfer-Encoding:Message-Id:References:To; b=EsVqrHxhk/dJro4gO69KtOBGlpF0IobwOTFTULV3egq/flWP1s1lbKgU7laeAEd+Q NEqWZOa2zYipaKhLmp22xP8FYCNNbgFfdEIezX3NUzu8z15SPAn4gqqtGIl1KXBO+f bI1krct6KUVrlZzWpLLYZNf0w9yNZk70B9ZVn2HU= Content-Type: text/plain; charset=windows-1252 Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 7.3 \(1878.6\)) From: Ladislav Lhotka In-Reply-To: <20141120.093837.304702467308462616.mbj@tail-f.com> Date: Thu, 20 Nov 2014 10:04:31 +0100 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Message-Id: <3FA1C65E-12C6-4E2A-8353-E0313E51B0E7@nic.cz> References: <201411192144.sAJLidj7092681@idle.juniper.net> <20141120.093837.304702467308462616.mbj@tail-f.com> To: =?windows-1252?Q?Martin_Bj=F6rklund?= X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.1878.6) X-Virus-Scanned: clamav-milter 0.98.1 at mail X-Virus-Status: Clean Archived-At: http://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/netmod/ldjt1GxTMD2WGQSmXtvWPrVfF3s Cc: netmod@ietf.org Subject: Re: [netmod] Y34: remove anyxml X-BeenThere: netmod@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: NETMOD WG list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 20 Nov 2014 09:04:36 -0000 On 20 Nov 2014, at 09:38, Martin Bjorklund wrote: > Ladislav Lhotka wrote: >> Phil Shafer writes: >>=20 >>> Martin Bjorklund writes: >>>> I object to this interpretation. It's even worse than anyxml, = since >>>> it means that the data is different depending on which encoding was >>>> used. >>>>=20 >>>> My interpretation of anydata is an unknown chunk of data where the = data >>>> is modelled w/ YANG, but the schema is unknown to us. >>>>=20 >>>> But this doesn't really work in the sense that roundtripping from = JSON >>>> to XML to JSON won't return the same result, since the XML >>>> representation might have prefixes used in the content (i-i and >>>> identyref again), and the JSON encoding is type-sensitive. >>>=20 >>> +1 to all. >>>=20 >>> "data that is well-formed in the given encoding" means that you >>> are making a modeling language that is suddenly _tightly_ bound >>=20 >> I don't get the tight binding: anydata has to be well-formed (legal) = in >> whatever encoding that happens to be used. >>=20 >>> to some encoding. I don't might RESTCONF as an alternative access >>> method for NETCONF datastores, but strongly object to anything >>> that breaks compatibility between YANG and NETCONF. >>=20 >> NETCONF uses XML, and for XML anydata in my interpretation is exactly >> what anyxml is in YANG 1.0. Where does this break interoperability? >>=20 >>>=20 >>> Since round tripping is not possible, anyxml would have to rendered >>> in JSON as a string. "anydata" would not work, unless it was an >>> opaque string in both XML and JSON renderings. >>=20 >> I disagree. Why should a JSON-only system be forced to work with >> serialized XML data? >=20 > The problem with encoding-specific anydata is that if you have such an > instance in the datastore, the contents depends on which encoding was > used to set it. Once set with one encoding, it cannot be retrieved > using some other encoding. For example, one json-based restconf > client sets it to some json structure, then another xml-based restconf > client cannot read it. This is not necessarily true. If the server receives data it = understands, it should also be able to render it in a different = encoding. And if the server doesn=92t understand the (structured) data, = what=92s the point of sending them? If it is an opaque string, the = server can use it in all encodings (modulo escaping rules). >=20 > IMO, we should try to *remove* encoding specifics (i-i etc as we said > before), not add to the problem. XML, JSON or any other encoding are necessarily specific - for example, = lists are rendered differently. Dealing with differences in scalar leaf = values is nothing special or particularly difficult. Value-space values = need to be common but lexical-space values may be encoding-specific. I-I values are useful if the instance they point to can be easily = identified, and this IMO requires them to be close to the form how the = data tree is encoded.=20 Lada >=20 >=20 > /martin -- Ladislav Lhotka, CZ.NIC Labs PGP Key ID: E74E8C0C From nobody Thu Nov 20 01:12:30 2014 Return-Path: X-Original-To: netmod@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: netmod@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 94CF11A00BD for ; Thu, 20 Nov 2014 01:12:27 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.902 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.902 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, SPF_HELO_PASS=-0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id lVFp4Kt-JcUO for ; Thu, 20 Nov 2014 01:12:25 -0800 (PST) Received: from na01-by2-obe.outbound.protection.outlook.com (mail-by2on0135.outbound.protection.outlook.com [207.46.100.135]) (using TLSv1 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id ABF551A00A3 for ; Thu, 20 Nov 2014 01:12:25 -0800 (PST) Received: from CO2PR05CA031.namprd05.prod.outlook.com (10.141.241.159) by CO1PR05MB443.namprd05.prod.outlook.com (10.141.73.152) with Microsoft SMTP Server (TLS) id 15.1.16.15; Thu, 20 Nov 2014 09:12:24 +0000 Received: from BN1BFFO11FD036.protection.gbl (2a01:111:f400:7c10::1:175) by CO2PR05CA031.outlook.office365.com (2a01:111:e400:1429::31) with Microsoft SMTP Server (TLS) id 15.1.26.15 via Frontend Transport; Thu, 20 Nov 2014 09:12:24 +0000 Received: from P-EMF03-SAC.jnpr.net (66.129.239.17) by BN1BFFO11FD036.mail.protection.outlook.com (10.58.144.99) with Microsoft SMTP Server (TLS) id 15.1.6.13 via Frontend Transport; Thu, 20 Nov 2014 09:12:23 +0000 Received: from magenta.juniper.net (172.17.27.123) by P-EMF03-SAC.jnpr.net (172.24.192.21) with Microsoft SMTP Server (TLS) id 14.3.146.0; Thu, 20 Nov 2014 01:12:21 -0800 Received: from idle.juniper.net (idleski.juniper.net [172.25.4.26]) by magenta.juniper.net (8.11.3/8.11.3) with ESMTP id sAK9BlR47379; Thu, 20 Nov 2014 01:12:19 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from phil@juniper.net) Received: from idle.juniper.net (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by idle.juniper.net (8.14.4/8.14.3) with ESMTP id sAK9AZ1u096694; Thu, 20 Nov 2014 04:10:35 -0500 (EST) (envelope-from phil@idle.juniper.net) Message-ID: <201411200910.sAK9AZ1u096694@idle.juniper.net> To: Martin Bjorklund In-Reply-To: <20141120.095544.241105593989651686.mbj@tail-f.com> Date: Thu, 20 Nov 2014 04:10:35 -0500 From: Phil Shafer MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain X-EOPAttributedMessage: 0 Received-SPF: SoftFail (protection.outlook.com: domain of transitioning juniper.net discourages use of 66.129.239.17 as permitted sender) Authentication-Results: spf=softfail (sender IP is 66.129.239.17) smtp.mailfrom=phil@juniper.net; X-Forefront-Antispam-Report: CIP:66.129.239.17; CTRY:US; IPV:NLI; EFV:NLI; SFV:NSPM; SFS:(10019020)(6009001)(164054003)(24454002)(199003)(189002)(51704005)(97736003)(50466002)(54356999)(20776003)(64706001)(48376002)(47776003)(50986999)(76506005)(53416004)(110136001)(105596002)(95666004)(107046002)(92566001)(102836001)(99396003)(92726001)(44976005)(86362001)(103666002)(120916001)(84676001)(19580395003)(62966003)(46102003)(69596002)(68736004)(4396001)(77156002)(31966008)(87936001)(6806004)(106466001)(81156004)(21056001); DIR:OUT; SFP:1102; SCL:1; SRVR:CO1PR05MB443; H:P-EMF03-SAC.jnpr.net; FPR:; MLV:sfv; PTR:InfoDomainNonexistent; A:1; MX:1; LANG:en; X-Microsoft-Antispam: UriScan:; X-Microsoft-Antispam: BCL:0;PCL:0;RULEID:;SRVR:CO1PR05MB443; X-Exchange-Antispam-Report-Test: UriScan:; X-Exchange-Antispam-Report-CFA-Test: BCL:0;PCL:0;RULEID:;SRVR:CO1PR05MB443; X-Forefront-PRVS: 0401647B7F X-Exchange-Antispam-Report-CFA-Test: BCL:0;PCL:0;RULEID:;SRVR:CO1PR05MB443; X-OriginatorOrg: juniper.net Archived-At: http://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/netmod/dtVstPdFB9G3yykD1c7w7KA1QTs Cc: netmod@ietf.org Subject: Re: [netmod] Y09: optional keys X-BeenThere: netmod@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: NETMOD WG list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 20 Nov 2014 09:12:27 -0000 Martin Bjorklund writes: >Actually, Phil wrote: > > not(optional-key) would be true when the value is a numeric zero > or a zero length string. > >which *is* true, but irrelevant. Doh! 'key' is a node-set, not a value: % slaxproc -d /tmp/foo.slax /tmp/test.xml sdb: The SLAX Debugger (version 0.18.1) Type 'help' for help (sdb) b 7 Breakpoint 1 at file /tmp/foo.slax, line 7 (sdb) c Reached breakpoint 1, at /tmp/foo.slax:7 foo.slax:7: if (not(key)) { (sdb) p key [node-set] (1) 0 (sdb) p boolean(0) [boolean] false (sdb) p boolean(1) [boolean] true (sdb) p boolean(key) [boolean] true (sdb) Thanks, Phil From nobody Thu Nov 20 01:13:12 2014 Return-Path: X-Original-To: netmod@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: netmod@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 704FF1A00A3 for ; Thu, 20 Nov 2014 01:13:11 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -0.945 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-0.945 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, HELO_EQ_CZ=0.445, HOST_EQ_CZ=0.904, MIME_8BIT_HEADER=0.3, RP_MATCHES_RCVD=-0.594] autolearn=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id bjbqMaDqXfxz for ; Thu, 20 Nov 2014 01:13:10 -0800 (PST) Received: from mail.nic.cz (mail.nic.cz [IPv6:2001:1488:800:400::400]) (using TLSv1 with cipher ADH-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 0396D1A0110 for ; Thu, 20 Nov 2014 01:13:10 -0800 (PST) Received: from [192.168.1.108] (unknown [195.113.220.254]) by mail.nic.cz (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 6F546140C02; Thu, 20 Nov 2014 10:13:08 +0100 (CET) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=simple/simple; d=nic.cz; s=default; t=1416474788; bh=HloBq0IR/pDSHdCeh57wn0b6o3D9TyN9ypguwqLLpF8=; h=Content-Type:Mime-Version:Subject:From:In-Reply-To:Date:Cc: Content-Transfer-Encoding:Message-Id:References:To; b=pIf01c1qJB29gr5Nd5zSh8mPTUDmBEEpq3xhqfbH9/V7IlKVYWN9WsIGjF2Z+0BGF 8lStEyR5fdx8fN/yg/vnM4bSFbgXM1HUKj5P8MrR8s9XBGb+zG6OFnm2GWroHGhKFq plOQMcfKAkOzMFRMRnRbvtEg09T0VVKOh9g3TPmg= Content-Type: text/plain; charset=windows-1252 Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 7.3 \(1878.6\)) From: Ladislav Lhotka In-Reply-To: <20141120.095544.241105593989651686.mbj@tail-f.com> Date: Thu, 20 Nov 2014 10:13:07 +0100 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Message-Id: References: <201411181937.sAIJbguL080247@idle.juniper.net> <20141119.104651.1930940910444913825.mbj@tail-f.com> <20141120.095544.241105593989651686.mbj@tail-f.com> To: =?windows-1252?Q?Martin_Bj=F6rklund?= X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.1878.6) X-Virus-Scanned: clamav-milter 0.98.1 at mail X-Virus-Status: Clean Archived-At: http://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/netmod/aRK80XH4X0LVG82NXZIBgOpjyGw Cc: netmod@ietf.org Subject: Re: [netmod] Y09: optional keys X-BeenThere: netmod@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: NETMOD WG list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 20 Nov 2014 09:13:11 -0000 On 20 Nov 2014, at 09:55, Martin Bjorklund wrote: > Ladislav Lhotka wrote: >> Martin Bjorklund writes: >>=20 >>> Phil Shafer wrote: >>>> * OPEN :Y09: introduce optional keys >>>>=20 >>>> I don't understand the 'resolution' here. >>>>=20 >>>> My concern is that optional keys make interaction with databases >>>> more difficult. Keys are mandatory for most databases. >>>=20 >>> Implementation detail. Most databases do not support hierarchical >>> structures; yet we have that in YANG. >>>=20 >>>> The usage of 'not(key)' in the second solution is not compatible >>>> with xpath expressions >>>=20 >>> [...] >>>=20 >>>> not(optional-key) would be true when the value is a numeric zero >>>> or a zero length string. >>>=20 >>> Whoops. You are right. This would work: not(count(key)) - but = looks >>> extremely weird. >>=20 >> No, Phil is not right: >=20 > [...] >=20 >> not(key) evaluates to true only if no element is present. The >> value doesn't matter. >=20 > Good! Sorry for contributing to the confusion. >=20 > Actually, Phil wrote: >=20 > not(optional-key) would be true when the value is a numeric zero > or a zero length string. >=20 > which *is* true, but irrelevant. I don=92t think it is true: in my example with test.xml, the = element is empty (it=92s value is a zero-length string), yet not(key) is = false. The value of zero works the same: $ cat test3.xml 0 $ xsltproc test.xsl test3.xml Lada >=20 > What is important for Y09-02 is that we have a representation of an > instance-identifier for instances with unset optional keys, and that > this representation gives the correct instance when evaluated as an > XPath expression. >=20 >=20 >=20 > /martin -- Ladislav Lhotka, CZ.NIC Labs PGP Key ID: E74E8C0C From nobody Thu Nov 20 01:27:42 2014 Return-Path: X-Original-To: netmod@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: netmod@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9BAC51A010F for ; Thu, 20 Nov 2014 01:27:40 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.9 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.9 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9] autolearn=ham Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id oT14B4KFYjbB for ; Thu, 20 Nov 2014 01:27:38 -0800 (PST) Received: from trail.lhotka.name (trail.lhotka.name [77.48.224.143]) (using TLSv1.1 with cipher AECDH-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 6A5FE1A0123 for ; Thu, 20 Nov 2014 01:27:38 -0800 (PST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by trail.lhotka.name (Postfix) with ESMTP id B1BD654057D; Thu, 20 Nov 2014 10:27:36 +0100 (CET) Received: from trail.lhotka.name ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (trail.lhotka.name [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id IFnpvvv4f6vs; Thu, 20 Nov 2014 10:27:32 +0100 (CET) Received: from localhost (unknown [195.113.220.254]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by trail.lhotka.name (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 41058540030; Thu, 20 Nov 2014 10:27:30 +0100 (CET) From: Ladislav Lhotka To: Martin Bjorklund , phil@juniper.net In-Reply-To: <20141119.185244.71765139292686917.mbj@tail-f.com> References: <20141119.111154.217079456944529909.mbj@tail-f.com> <201411191659.sAJGxW6i089973@idle.juniper.net> <20141119.185244.71765139292686917.mbj@tail-f.com> User-Agent: Notmuch/0.18.1 (http://notmuchmail.org) Emacs/24.4.51.2 (x86_64-apple-darwin14.0.0) Date: Thu, 20 Nov 2014 10:27:28 +0100 Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Archived-At: http://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/netmod/mGtg3PdZFNnbWqCzKZriskLwWLA Cc: netmod@ietf.org Subject: Re: [netmod] Y26: mandatory nodes in augment X-BeenThere: netmod@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: NETMOD WG list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 20 Nov 2014 09:27:40 -0000 Martin Bjorklund writes: > Phil Shafer wrote: >> Martin Bjorklund writes: >> >But the current rule is overly restrictive. For example, if a module >> >defines an identity, and at the same time an augment that is >> >conditional on that identity, it would be fine: >> > >> > identity ethernet { >> > base if:interface-type; >> > } >> > >> > augment /if:interfaces/if:interface { >> > when "if:type = 'ex:ethernet'"; >> > } >> >> So since only one that implements this module would be >> able to add the nodes in this module. Any client not >> understanding this module would not be able to create >> these nodes, and so would not need to know what is >> mandatory. >> >> Ok, I can see this, but how does one limit it to cases like this >> without opening clients to breakage? > > Right, this is why we have: > > The proposal is to add general guiding rules > that backwards compatibility needs to be maintained. Lets see > whether someone can write more concrete rules when mandatory nodes > in augment are allowed. I think it is in the interest of a module writer to avoid backward compatibility problem as much as possible. Maybe it needn't be enforced in the language but just give appropriate guidelines in 6087bis. Sometimes it might be desirable to break the backward compatibility, e.g. if the old module has a security hole and a fix is provided through an augment. Lada > > :) > > > /martin > > _______________________________________________ > netmod mailing list > netmod@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/netmod -- Ladislav Lhotka, CZ.NIC Labs PGP Key ID: E74E8C0C From nobody Thu Nov 20 01:38:09 2014 Return-Path: X-Original-To: netmod@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: netmod@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3B9721A0123 for ; Thu, 20 Nov 2014 01:38:08 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.495 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.495 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, RP_MATCHES_RCVD=-0.594, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id a05xcpRihvr8 for ; Thu, 20 Nov 2014 01:38:06 -0800 (PST) Received: from mail.tail-f.com (mail.tail-f.com [83.241.162.140]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id A5BE51A00A7 for ; Thu, 20 Nov 2014 01:38:06 -0800 (PST) Received: from localhost (173-38-208-170.cisco.com [173.38.208.170]) by mail.tail-f.com (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 97EB5128098A; Thu, 20 Nov 2014 10:38:05 +0100 (CET) Date: Thu, 20 Nov 2014 10:38:05 +0100 (CET) Message-Id: <20141120.103805.537503455933786162.mbj@tail-f.com> To: lhotka@nic.cz From: Martin Bjorklund In-Reply-To: References: <20141120.095544.241105593989651686.mbj@tail-f.com> X-Mailer: Mew version 6.5 on Emacs 23.4 / Mule 6.0 (HANACHIRUSATO) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: Text/Plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 Archived-At: http://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/netmod/YsBELc7WRYS8QJ-x_lq7HzxLAbQ Cc: netmod@ietf.org Subject: Re: [netmod] Y09: optional keys X-BeenThere: netmod@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: NETMOD WG list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 20 Nov 2014 09:38:08 -0000 TGFkaXNsYXYgTGhvdGthIDxsaG90a2FAbmljLmN6PiB3cm90ZToNCj4gDQo+IE9uIDIwIE5vdiAy MDE0LCBhdCAwOTo1NSwgTWFydGluIEJqb3JrbHVuZCA8bWJqQHRhaWwtZi5jb20+IHdyb3RlOg0K PiANCj4gPiBMYWRpc2xhdiBMaG90a2EgPGxob3RrYUBuaWMuY3o+IHdyb3RlOg0KPiA+PiBNYXJ0 aW4gQmpvcmtsdW5kIDxtYmpAdGFpbC1mLmNvbT4gd3JpdGVzOg0KPiA+PiANCj4gPj4+IFBoaWwg U2hhZmVyIDxwaGlsQGp1bmlwZXIubmV0PiB3cm90ZToNCj4gPj4+PiAqIE9QRU4gOlkwOTogaW50 cm9kdWNlIG9wdGlvbmFsIGtleXMNCj4gPj4+PiANCj4gPj4+PiBJIGRvbid0IHVuZGVyc3RhbmQg dGhlICdyZXNvbHV0aW9uJyBoZXJlLg0KPiA+Pj4+IA0KPiA+Pj4+IE15IGNvbmNlcm4gaXMgdGhh dCBvcHRpb25hbCBrZXlzIG1ha2UgaW50ZXJhY3Rpb24gd2l0aCBkYXRhYmFzZXMNCj4gPj4+PiBt b3JlIGRpZmZpY3VsdC4gIEtleXMgYXJlIG1hbmRhdG9yeSBmb3IgbW9zdCBkYXRhYmFzZXMuDQo+ ID4+PiANCj4gPj4+IEltcGxlbWVudGF0aW9uIGRldGFpbC4gIE1vc3QgZGF0YWJhc2VzIGRvIG5v dCBzdXBwb3J0IGhpZXJhcmNoaWNhbA0KPiA+Pj4gc3RydWN0dXJlczsgeWV0IHdlIGhhdmUgdGhh dCBpbiBZQU5HLg0KPiA+Pj4gDQo+ID4+Pj4gVGhlIHVzYWdlIG9mICdub3Qoa2V5KScgaW4gdGhl IHNlY29uZCBzb2x1dGlvbiBpcyBub3QgY29tcGF0aWJsZQ0KPiA+Pj4+IHdpdGggeHBhdGggZXhw cmVzc2lvbnMNCj4gPj4+IA0KPiA+Pj4gWy4uLl0NCj4gPj4+IA0KPiA+Pj4+IG5vdChvcHRpb25h bC1rZXkpIHdvdWxkIGJlIHRydWUgd2hlbiB0aGUgdmFsdWUgaXMgYSBudW1lcmljIHplcm8NCj4g Pj4+PiBvciBhIHplcm8gbGVuZ3RoIHN0cmluZy4NCj4gPj4+IA0KPiA+Pj4gV2hvb3BzLiAgWW91 IGFyZSByaWdodC4gIFRoaXMgd291bGQgd29yazogbm90KGNvdW50KGtleSkpIC0gYnV0IGxvb2tz DQo+ID4+PiBleHRyZW1lbHkgd2VpcmQuDQo+ID4+IA0KPiA+PiBObywgUGhpbCBpcyBub3Qgcmln aHQ6DQo+ID4gDQo+ID4gWy4uLl0NCj4gPiANCj4gPj4gbm90KGtleSkgZXZhbHVhdGVzIHRvIHRy dWUgb25seSBpZiBubyA8a2V5PiBlbGVtZW50IGlzIHByZXNlbnQuIFRoZQ0KPiA+PiB2YWx1ZSBk b2Vzbid0IG1hdHRlci4NCj4gPiANCj4gPiBHb29kISAgU29ycnkgZm9yIGNvbnRyaWJ1dGluZyB0 byB0aGUgY29uZnVzaW9uLg0KPiA+IA0KPiA+IEFjdHVhbGx5LCBQaGlsIHdyb3RlOg0KPiA+IA0K PiA+ICBub3Qob3B0aW9uYWwta2V5KSB3b3VsZCBiZSB0cnVlIHdoZW4gdGhlIHZhbHVlIGlzIGEg bnVtZXJpYyB6ZXJvDQo+ID4gICAgb3IgYSB6ZXJvIGxlbmd0aCBzdHJpbmcuDQo+ID4gDQo+ID4g d2hpY2ggKmlzKiB0cnVlLCBidXQgaXJyZWxldmFudC4NCj4gDQo+IEkgZG9u4oCZdCB0aGluayBp dCBpcyB0cnVlDQoNCkkgdGhpbmsgd2UgYWdyZWUsIGJ1dCBqdXN0IHRvIGJlIGNsZWFyOiBUaGUg c3RhdGVtZW50IGlzIGFjdHVhbGx5IHRydWUNCmluIHRoZSBzZW5zZSB0aGF0IGlmIFggaXMgYSBu dW1lcmljIHplcm8gb3IgemVybyBsZW5ndGggc3RyaW5nIHRoZW4NCm5vdChYKSB3b3VsZCBiZSB0 cnVlLiAgQnV0IHRoaXMgaXMgaXJyZWxldmFudCwgc2luY2UgaW4gb3VyIGNhc2UgWCBpcw0KYWx3 YXlzIGEgbm9kZS1zZXQuDQoNCg0KL21hcnRpbg0K From nobody Thu Nov 20 01:41:50 2014 Return-Path: X-Original-To: netmod@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: netmod@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6129C1A00A7 for ; Thu, 20 Nov 2014 01:41:47 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -0.945 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-0.945 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, HELO_EQ_CZ=0.445, HOST_EQ_CZ=0.904, MIME_8BIT_HEADER=0.3, RP_MATCHES_RCVD=-0.594] autolearn=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id Xeu4682dPd3w for ; Thu, 20 Nov 2014 01:41:46 -0800 (PST) Received: from mail.nic.cz (mail.nic.cz [IPv6:2001:1488:800:400::400]) (using TLSv1 with cipher ADH-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id D40E11A011F for ; Thu, 20 Nov 2014 01:41:41 -0800 (PST) Received: from [192.168.1.108] (unknown [195.113.220.254]) by mail.nic.cz (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id C4C6013FD8A; Thu, 20 Nov 2014 10:41:39 +0100 (CET) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=simple/simple; d=nic.cz; s=default; t=1416476499; bh=xUSvaea1XGUOZNJg0s2ELnw2y6/1KfIIDsQQocgs92A=; h=Content-Type:Mime-Version:Subject:From:In-Reply-To:Date:Cc: Content-Transfer-Encoding:Message-Id:References:To; b=YszXrpk03lWLxitl7Hs48jlihPQHzvig7JyAnB6Al1XMKF7CpoYw/Dl3MX8jkL79N cgsJu8RQf4/GEUWWZrr3YwW9BkHMSg/0J+gqpVYiNb4eeLKAvG2IqQ1dgRynC57iMS M9BOB2vdyIipaT3hAkjyh+ThVEPpLzQkC43sZyVU= Content-Type: text/plain; charset=windows-1252 Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 7.3 \(1878.6\)) From: Ladislav Lhotka In-Reply-To: <20141120.103805.537503455933786162.mbj@tail-f.com> Date: Thu, 20 Nov 2014 10:41:39 +0100 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Message-Id: <9F73815A-69BD-4354-B29A-41A633A3CA65@nic.cz> References: <20141120.095544.241105593989651686.mbj@tail-f.com> <20141120.103805.537503455933786162.mbj@tail-f.com> To: =?windows-1252?Q?Martin_Bj=F6rklund?= X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.1878.6) X-Virus-Scanned: clamav-milter 0.98.1 at mail X-Virus-Status: Clean Archived-At: http://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/netmod/zylPFspqkRNB42FIMVci0e_Tfc0 Cc: netmod@ietf.org Subject: Re: [netmod] Y09: optional keys X-BeenThere: netmod@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: NETMOD WG list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 20 Nov 2014 09:41:47 -0000 On 20 Nov 2014, at 10:38, Martin Bjorklund wrote: > Ladislav Lhotka wrote: >>=20 >> On 20 Nov 2014, at 09:55, Martin Bjorklund wrote: >>=20 >>> Ladislav Lhotka wrote: >>>> Martin Bjorklund writes: >>>>=20 >>>>> Phil Shafer wrote: >>>>>> * OPEN :Y09: introduce optional keys >>>>>>=20 >>>>>> I don't understand the 'resolution' here. >>>>>>=20 >>>>>> My concern is that optional keys make interaction with databases >>>>>> more difficult. Keys are mandatory for most databases. >>>>>=20 >>>>> Implementation detail. Most databases do not support hierarchical >>>>> structures; yet we have that in YANG. >>>>>=20 >>>>>> The usage of 'not(key)' in the second solution is not compatible >>>>>> with xpath expressions >>>>>=20 >>>>> [...] >>>>>=20 >>>>>> not(optional-key) would be true when the value is a numeric zero >>>>>> or a zero length string. >>>>>=20 >>>>> Whoops. You are right. This would work: not(count(key)) - but = looks >>>>> extremely weird. >>>>=20 >>>> No, Phil is not right: >>>=20 >>> [...] >>>=20 >>>> not(key) evaluates to true only if no element is present. The >>>> value doesn't matter. >>>=20 >>> Good! Sorry for contributing to the confusion. >>>=20 >>> Actually, Phil wrote: >>>=20 >>> not(optional-key) would be true when the value is a numeric zero >>> or a zero length string. >>>=20 >>> which *is* true, but irrelevant. >>=20 >> I don=92t think it is true >=20 > I think we agree, but just to be clear: The statement is actually true > in the sense that if X is a numeric zero or zero length string then > not(X) would be true. But this is irrelevant, since in our case X is > always a node-set. OK, got it. Lada >=20 >=20 > /martin -- Ladislav Lhotka, CZ.NIC Labs PGP Key ID: E74E8C0C From nobody Thu Nov 20 01:45:26 2014 Return-Path: X-Original-To: netmod@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: netmod@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 35BA41A014F for ; Thu, 20 Nov 2014 01:45:24 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.495 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.495 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, RP_MATCHES_RCVD=-0.594, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id f4_VrrDoTVnx for ; Thu, 20 Nov 2014 01:45:22 -0800 (PST) Received: from mail.tail-f.com (mail.tail-f.com [83.241.162.140]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8952C1A0149 for ; Thu, 20 Nov 2014 01:45:22 -0800 (PST) Received: from localhost (173-38-208-169.cisco.com [173.38.208.169]) by mail.tail-f.com (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 6515F128098A for ; Thu, 20 Nov 2014 10:45:21 +0100 (CET) Date: Thu, 20 Nov 2014 10:45:21 +0100 (CET) Message-Id: <20141120.104521.1995721665500861043.mbj@tail-f.com> To: netmod@ietf.org From: Martin Bjorklund In-Reply-To: References: <20141120.095544.241105593989651686.mbj@tail-f.com> X-Mailer: Mew version 6.5 on Emacs 23.4 / Mule 6.0 (HANACHIRUSATO) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: Text/Plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Archived-At: http://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/netmod/AgbDq8KR1-wGQbm_8wIMTUFWo_0 Subject: Re: [netmod] Y09: optional keys X-BeenThere: netmod@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: NETMOD WG list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 20 Nov 2014 09:45:24 -0000 Hi, I have added Y09-03, as decided in the meeting yesterday. However, I think the arguments given for Y09-03 are all moot. The arguments were: o The instance-identifier syntax proposed in Y09-02 doesn't work, b/c empty strings and 0-values integers would also return "true" in the expression "not(key)". -- But this turned out to be a false claim; the syntax proposed in Y09-02 is correct. o Y09-02 is tricky to implement in "common databases", since they require values for all keys. -- But the idea for how to handle Y09-03 in these databases was to store additional info that the default value is set. The same technique can be used to handle purely optional keys. Thus, I think there are no reasons for doing Y09-03. /martin From nobody Thu Nov 20 02:08:02 2014 Return-Path: X-Original-To: netmod@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: netmod@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2F4A51A0147 for ; Thu, 20 Nov 2014 02:08:00 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -0.945 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-0.945 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, HELO_EQ_CZ=0.445, HOST_EQ_CZ=0.904, MIME_8BIT_HEADER=0.3, RP_MATCHES_RCVD=-0.594] autolearn=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id S9rg7C8tSnYh for ; Thu, 20 Nov 2014 02:07:57 -0800 (PST) Received: from mail.nic.cz (mail.nic.cz [IPv6:2001:1488:800:400::400]) (using TLSv1 with cipher ADH-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 9AE0A1A0123 for ; Thu, 20 Nov 2014 02:07:57 -0800 (PST) Received: from [192.168.1.108] (unknown [195.113.220.254]) by mail.nic.cz (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 2FD7B13FD8A; Thu, 20 Nov 2014 11:07:56 +0100 (CET) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=simple/simple; d=nic.cz; s=default; t=1416478076; bh=jE6Bbd0D+BYShsRh9kv8Id/yc+ChNXPT9SeuPk6A5nk=; h=Content-Type:Mime-Version:Subject:From:In-Reply-To:Date:Cc: Content-Transfer-Encoding:Message-Id:References:To; b=bk7e/I602G1LdgYc+MBEXVdm3SiR+ICfZxE4xu2DlNFD+Ik8nduPTVCrdGGOSfLd7 IDpMwJrje0ScXhrxrm9MCsso1UQDGJS51zexZOXAwQ+HfAuiwEOe0tryqtO/8MO4hZ c6GPshU+Xb4AYFveqx3uaUVlz39cpkcKf+ACg/qc= Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 7.3 \(1878.6\)) From: Ladislav Lhotka In-Reply-To: <20141120.104521.1995721665500861043.mbj@tail-f.com> Date: Thu, 20 Nov 2014 11:07:55 +0100 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Message-Id: <83A8BAC1-1970-415E-A579-B2B9B32A4EBE@nic.cz> References: <20141120.095544.241105593989651686.mbj@tail-f.com> <20141120.104521.1995721665500861043.mbj@tail-f.com> To: =?iso-8859-1?Q?Martin_Bj=F6rklund?= X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.1878.6) X-Virus-Scanned: clamav-milter 0.98.1 at mail X-Virus-Status: Clean Archived-At: http://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/netmod/mc_xmOyUJoc02zE5OjOeLoCbHXk Cc: netmod@ietf.org Subject: Re: [netmod] Y09: optional keys X-BeenThere: netmod@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: NETMOD WG list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 20 Nov 2014 10:08:00 -0000 On 20 Nov 2014, at 10:45, Martin Bjorklund wrote: > Hi, > > I have added Y09-03, as decided in the meeting yesterday. > > However, I think the arguments given for Y09-03 are all moot. > > The arguments were: > > o The instance-identifier syntax proposed in Y09-02 doesn't work, > b/c empty strings and 0-values integers would also return "true" > in the expression "not(key)". > > -- But this turned out to be a false claim; the syntax proposed in > Y09-02 is correct. > > o Y09-02 is tricky to implement in "common databases", since they > require values for all keys. > > -- But the idea for how to handle Y09-03 in these databases was to > store additional info that the default value is set. The same > technique can be used to handle purely optional keys. > > > Thus, I think there are no reasons for doing Y09-03. +1, I think Y09-02 should be fine. Lada > > > /martin > > _______________________________________________ > netmod mailing list > netmod@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/netmod -- Ladislav Lhotka, CZ.NIC Labs PGP Key ID: E74E8C0C From nobody Thu Nov 20 06:50:04 2014 Return-Path: X-Original-To: netmod@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: netmod@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4EC6E1A0024 for ; Thu, 20 Nov 2014 06:50:01 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.602 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.602 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, MIME_8BIT_HEADER=0.3, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, SPF_HELO_PASS=-0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id M8oIv8SrGP33 for ; Thu, 20 Nov 2014 06:50:00 -0800 (PST) Received: from na01-by2-obe.outbound.protection.outlook.com (mail-by2on0142.outbound.protection.outlook.com [207.46.100.142]) (using TLSv1 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 0BC261A1A00 for ; Thu, 20 Nov 2014 06:49:55 -0800 (PST) Received: from CO1PR05MB458.namprd05.prod.outlook.com (10.141.72.140) by CO1PR05MB364.namprd05.prod.outlook.com (10.141.51.143) with Microsoft SMTP Server (TLS) id 15.1.16.15; Thu, 20 Nov 2014 14:49:54 +0000 Received: from CO1PR05MB458.namprd05.prod.outlook.com ([169.254.10.239]) by CO1PR05MB458.namprd05.prod.outlook.com ([169.254.10.239]) with mapi id 15.01.0016.006; Thu, 20 Nov 2014 14:49:54 +0000 From: Kent Watsen To: =?iso-8859-1?Q?Martin_Bj=F6rklund?= , Phil Shafer Thread-Topic: [netmod] Y34: remove anyxml Thread-Index: AQHQBCHpmz3GuNqMJkqnHa4Nok6u0JxoZ1EAgAAR9wCAAAJ9gIAABHwAgAAIn4CAAKtDgIAAEkIA Date: Thu, 20 Nov 2014 14:49:53 +0000 Message-ID: References: <20141119.230042.326760756273955336.mbj@tail-f.com> <201411192231.sAJMVXtm093081@idle.juniper.net> <20141120.094431.664236597197962863.mbj@tail-f.com> In-Reply-To: <20141120.094431.664236597197962863.mbj@tail-f.com> Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: user-agent: Microsoft-MacOutlook/14.4.4.140807 x-originating-ip: [66.129.241.10] x-microsoft-antispam: BCL:0;PCL:0;RULEID:;SRVR:CO1PR05MB364; x-exchange-antispam-report-test: UriScan:; x-exchange-antispam-report-cfa-test: BCL:0;PCL:0;RULEID:;SRVR:CO1PR05MB364; x-forefront-prvs: 0401647B7F x-forefront-antispam-report: SFV:NSPM; SFS:(10019020)(6009001)(199003)(51704005)(189002)(92566001)(92726001)(66066001)(99396003)(86362001)(83506001)(54356999)(46102003)(101416001)(76176999)(1941001)(50986999)(64706001)(20776003)(4396001)(2656002)(122556002)(99286002)(107046002)(36756003)(106116001)(87936001)(77156002)(31966008)(95666004)(40100003)(120916001)(21056001)(106356001)(105586002)(62966003)(77096003)(97736003); DIR:OUT; SFP:1102; SCL:1; SRVR:CO1PR05MB364; H:CO1PR05MB458.namprd05.prod.outlook.com; FPR:; MLV:sfv; PTR:InfoNoRecords; A:1; MX:1; LANG:en; Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-ID: Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable MIME-Version: 1.0 X-OriginatorOrg: juniper.net Archived-At: http://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/netmod/yzegcZAEc44emz3Bvjq0EtQdi94 Cc: "netmod@ietf.org" Subject: Re: [netmod] Y34: remove anyxml X-BeenThere: netmod@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: NETMOD WG list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 20 Nov 2014 14:50:01 -0000 >> What's meant by this text (from XML Mapping rules in anyxml)? >>=20 >> Note that any prefixes used in the encoding are local to each >>instance >> encoding. This means that the same XML may be encoded differently by >> different implementations. > >It means you cannot rely on the prefixes being the same after >roundtripping. For example, you might set: > > 42 > >and get back > > 42 This is because the XML format allows alternate mechanisms for declaring namespaces. I like it the JSON encoding has no encoding variations. AFAIK, the current JSON encoding is different than anything supported by XML. While it's scoping rules behave a lot like XML's default namespaces (albeit with a prefix instead on an xmlns), the URI for each namespace is known only implicitly from context. That is, the execution environment must have previously loaded the YANG modules, there is no global or local xmlns used to declare the namespace that the environment can use to dynamically load the schema. Is this an issue? Kent From nobody Thu Nov 20 07:07:56 2014 Return-Path: X-Original-To: netmod@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: netmod@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id A1AB51A1A64 for ; Thu, 20 Nov 2014 07:07:54 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.902 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.902 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, SPF_HELO_PASS=-0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id UcMQJ8I-uAB6 for ; Thu, 20 Nov 2014 07:07:52 -0800 (PST) Received: from na01-bl2-obe.outbound.protection.outlook.com (mail-bl2on0140.outbound.protection.outlook.com [65.55.169.140]) (using TLSv1 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 5D3331A1A65 for ; Thu, 20 Nov 2014 07:06:50 -0800 (PST) Received: from CO1PR05MB458.namprd05.prod.outlook.com (10.141.72.140) by CO1PR05MB457.namprd05.prod.outlook.com (10.141.72.141) with Microsoft SMTP Server (TLS) id 15.1.16.15; Thu, 20 Nov 2014 15:06:47 +0000 Received: from CO1PR05MB458.namprd05.prod.outlook.com ([169.254.10.239]) by CO1PR05MB458.namprd05.prod.outlook.com ([169.254.10.239]) with mapi id 15.01.0016.006; Thu, 20 Nov 2014 15:06:47 +0000 From: Kent Watsen To: Martin Bjorklund , Ladislav Lhotka Thread-Topic: [netmod] Y34: remove anyxml Thread-Index: AQHQBCHpmz3GuNqMJkqnHa4Nok6u0JxoZ1EAgAAR9wCAAAJ9gIAAso8AgAAEKYCAABiggA== Date: Thu, 20 Nov 2014 15:06:47 +0000 Message-ID: References: <201411192144.sAJLidj7092681@idle.juniper.net> <20141120.093837.304702467308462616.mbj@tail-f.com> In-Reply-To: <20141120.093837.304702467308462616.mbj@tail-f.com> Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: user-agent: Microsoft-MacOutlook/14.4.4.140807 x-originating-ip: [66.129.241.10] x-microsoft-antispam: BCL:0;PCL:0;RULEID:;SRVR:CO1PR05MB457; x-exchange-antispam-report-test: UriScan:; x-exchange-antispam-report-cfa-test: BCL:0;PCL:0;RULEID:;SRVR:CO1PR05MB457; x-forefront-prvs: 0401647B7F x-forefront-antispam-report: SFV:NSPM; SFS:(10019020)(6009001)(199003)(189002)(106356001)(66066001)(107046002)(95666004)(86362001)(64706001)(4396001)(99286002)(105586002)(36756003)(106116001)(40100003)(77096003)(99396003)(77156002)(122556002)(62966003)(46102003)(97736003)(20776003)(92566001)(87936001)(120916001)(21056001)(76176999)(83506001)(54356999)(50986999)(2656002)(92726001)(101416001)(31966008); DIR:OUT; SFP:1102; SCL:1; SRVR:CO1PR05MB457; H:CO1PR05MB458.namprd05.prod.outlook.com; FPR:; MLV:sfv; PTR:InfoNoRecords; A:1; MX:1; LANG:en; Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-ID: Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable MIME-Version: 1.0 X-OriginatorOrg: juniper.net Archived-At: http://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/netmod/ENxa-K7iND10nleU5dl3IWBbR3E Cc: "netmod@ietf.org" Subject: Re: [netmod] Y34: remove anyxml X-BeenThere: netmod@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: NETMOD WG list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 20 Nov 2014 15:07:55 -0000 >The problem with encoding-specific anydata is that if you have such an >instance in the datastore, the contents depends on which encoding was >used to set it. Once set with one encoding, it cannot be retrieved >using some other encoding. For example, one json-based restconf >client sets it to some json structure, then another xml-based restconf >client cannot read it. My first thought was that the reader should be able to support JSON too but, by extension, this leads to a statement along the lines of "Readers MUST support all current encodings", which seems difficult to guarantee. This is related to the XML-JSON MUST/SHOULD/MAY encoding debate, in which we were debating if a RESTCONF server could only support JSON, to which the WG consensus was have XML as a mandatory encoding. Then, in our discussions, we were primarily talking about the impact on NMSs (e.g. NMS MUST support both XML and JSON). This is a similar discussion, but there seems to be a difference in granularity. That is, the NMS use-case appears to be tolerant of supporting new encodings as they are defined in time. In contrast, low-level database reader/writers appear to be more sensitive. Is that right? Kent From nobody Thu Nov 20 07:18:26 2014 Return-Path: X-Original-To: netmod@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: netmod@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 776721A1A91 for ; Thu, 20 Nov 2014 07:18:23 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.245 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.245 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, HELO_EQ_CZ=0.445, HOST_EQ_CZ=0.904, RP_MATCHES_RCVD=-0.594] autolearn=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id T83i3WCiphVx for ; Thu, 20 Nov 2014 07:18:21 -0800 (PST) Received: from mail.nic.cz (mail.nic.cz [IPv6:2001:1488:800:400::400]) (using TLSv1 with cipher ADH-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id E233C1A1A80 for ; Thu, 20 Nov 2014 07:17:33 -0800 (PST) Received: from [192.168.1.108] (unknown [195.113.220.254]) by mail.nic.cz (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 5C0FA13FD8A; Thu, 20 Nov 2014 16:17:31 +0100 (CET) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=simple/simple; d=nic.cz; s=default; t=1416496651; bh=ScSO3wmqsRDCfHZoWMHsjL4DJKX+JLTPGbhTM6IXpKA=; h=Content-Type:Mime-Version:Subject:From:In-Reply-To:Date:Cc: Content-Transfer-Encoding:Message-Id:References:To; b=T3QVPVLuYxOF7ENtHuMxao+kE87Jqb5eI8GjWeX8LvNYlZ4Yy3tTczlUJTvmwT5JK KF0Y5Xw4Sn2bZ/wyj7+mOBcs97P32im9iAExwn6L+T6kUEPlCQKPB20The76Z20h3t VWB0O5hSmXUCEVO2X/aCfeTzt1vcVq70QLL5f1Gs= Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 7.3 \(1878.6\)) From: Ladislav Lhotka In-Reply-To: Date: Thu, 20 Nov 2014 16:17:30 +0100 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Message-Id: <628822AD-4F1C-4AED-B542-F3CFD0ED4E34@nic.cz> References: <20141119.230042.326760756273955336.mbj@tail-f.com> <201411192231.sAJMVXtm093081@idle.juniper.net> <20141120.094431.664236597197962863.mbj@tail-f.com> To: Kent Watsen X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.1878.6) X-Virus-Scanned: clamav-milter 0.98.1 at mail X-Virus-Status: Clean Archived-At: http://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/netmod/M4Cf0axLoOIgixiY-ZnBi5KxqnI Cc: "netmod@ietf.org" Subject: Re: [netmod] Y34: remove anyxml X-BeenThere: netmod@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: NETMOD WG list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 20 Nov 2014 15:18:24 -0000 On 20 Nov 2014, at 15:49, Kent Watsen wrote: >=20 >>> What's meant by this text (from XML Mapping rules in anyxml)? >>>=20 >>> Note that any prefixes used in the encoding are local to each >>> instance >>> encoding. This means that the same XML may be encoded differently = by >>> different implementations. >>=20 >> It means you cannot rely on the prefixes being the same after >> roundtripping. For example, you might set: >>=20 >> 42 >>=20 >> and get back >>=20 >> 42 >=20 > This is because the XML format allows alternate mechanisms for = declaring > namespaces. I like it the JSON encoding has no encoding variations. >=20 > AFAIK, the current JSON encoding is different than anything supported = by > XML. While it's scoping rules behave a lot like XML's default = namespaces > (albeit with a prefix instead on an xmlns), the URI for each namespace = is > known only implicitly from context. That is, the execution = environment > must have previously loaded the YANG modules, there is no global or = local > xmlns used to declare the namespace that the environment can use to > dynamically load the schema. Is this an issue? Namespace URIs (and prefixes) are needed only for XML encoding, so = unless you need to transcode JSON to XML the module name is good enough = as a namespace ID. Lada =20 >=20 > Kent >=20 > _______________________________________________ > netmod mailing list > netmod@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/netmod -- Ladislav Lhotka, CZ.NIC Labs PGP Key ID: E74E8C0C From nobody Fri Nov 21 07:34:17 2014 Return-Path: X-Original-To: netmod@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: netmod@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 01CC31A1A04 for ; Fri, 21 Nov 2014 07:34:16 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.979 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.979 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, FM_FORGED_GMAIL=0.622, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW=-0.7, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id O-KLl1yCTQZx for ; Fri, 21 Nov 2014 07:34:14 -0800 (PST) Received: from mail-qa0-f52.google.com (mail-qa0-f52.google.com [209.85.216.52]) (using TLSv1 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-RC4-SHA (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id F1E881A011F for ; Fri, 21 Nov 2014 07:34:13 -0800 (PST) Received: by mail-qa0-f52.google.com with SMTP id dc16so3499530qab.25 for ; Fri, 21 Nov 2014 07:34:13 -0800 (PST) X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20130820; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:in-reply-to:references:date :message-id:subject:from:to:cc:content-type; bh=yINuUzBjqvSGmn1XMWIPsMYb/wrD8VzNfJWE45rchio=; b=D3jjrq7Z/q4tevtgPxuMFBRghHjZdgVRjOsdyJUWkNI61AD+IVtjfZ83IJsrwY7pKE 7heINk9cD+H7P7Uo7ASN7InreiyTJbib5t9CSiZyA5SXySWKAJQyNnM4oyxGICQ/RoOo AObPMmFuEnuX93wH5VWriBjQDVccJexco+CrCTAXYWVPnEcIubStXF/qc6bTcynExWmc /ImAG89JwD14FpMd5pcPQkhTqDgGneljo7bBIQuAI1rvIzf33J6ioBC1Fft0Z899datb N1E6oIeq5fbtaVML5p0RIyPkUPdUM3hvYnNrc5gInqD/PL5ESK4Vhx+PftGz5H4td09O q4WQ== X-Gm-Message-State: ALoCoQn817s5RMJMth7wrmrFlykJ1t0dOFyN9V6d/x8+GOcIU1Ew4aGJp+LTdOk0aCC8xly6ywfi MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Received: by 10.140.104.169 with SMTP id a38mr7363660qgf.35.1416584053219; Fri, 21 Nov 2014 07:34:13 -0800 (PST) Received: by 10.140.37.52 with HTTP; Fri, 21 Nov 2014 07:34:13 -0800 (PST) In-Reply-To: <83A8BAC1-1970-415E-A579-B2B9B32A4EBE@nic.cz> References: <20141120.095544.241105593989651686.mbj@tail-f.com> <20141120.104521.1995721665500861043.mbj@tail-f.com> <83A8BAC1-1970-415E-A579-B2B9B32A4EBE@nic.cz> Date: Fri, 21 Nov 2014 07:34:13 -0800 Message-ID: From: Andy Bierman To: Ladislav Lhotka Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Archived-At: http://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/netmod/tI-GoCFoWN3BijINvq-gHU0B03o Cc: "netmod@ietf.org" Subject: Re: [netmod] Y09: optional keys X-BeenThere: netmod@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: NETMOD WG list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 21 Nov 2014 15:34:16 -0000 On Thu, Nov 20, 2014 at 2:07 AM, Ladislav Lhotka wrote: > > On 20 Nov 2014, at 10:45, Martin Bjorklund wrote: > >> Hi, >> >> I have added Y09-03, as decided in the meeting yesterday. >> >> However, I think the arguments given for Y09-03 are all moot. >> >> The arguments were: >> >> o The instance-identifier syntax proposed in Y09-02 doesn't work, >> b/c empty strings and 0-values integers would also return "true" >> in the expression "not(key)". >> >> -- But this turned out to be a false claim; the syntax proposed in >> Y09-02 is correct. >> >> o Y09-02 is tricky to implement in "common databases", since they >> require values for all keys. >> >> -- But the idea for how to handle Y09-03 in these databases was to >> store additional info that the default value is set. The same >> technique can be used to handle purely optional keys. >> >> >> Thus, I think there are no reasons for doing Y09-03. > > +1, I think Y09-02 should be fine. > RFC 6536 (NACM) does not support optional keys. The new instance-identifier syntax is not accepted by NACM. Simply leaving out the optional key predicate in NACM will cause the data-rule to match all values of that key. I do not support this change to YANG 1.1. The impact on implementations is pervasive and severe, and the apparent use-case is for a small number of lists that could have optional keys, but no value is available to indicate "not-in-use" for 1 or more optional keys. > Lada > >> >> >> /martin Andy >> >> _______________________________________________ >> netmod mailing list >> netmod@ietf.org >> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/netmod > > -- > Ladislav Lhotka, CZ.NIC Labs > PGP Key ID: E74E8C0C > > > > > _______________________________________________ > netmod mailing list > netmod@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/netmod From nobody Fri Nov 21 07:42:30 2014 Return-Path: X-Original-To: netmod@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: netmod@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3C4C31A1A46 for ; Fri, 21 Nov 2014 07:42:28 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.495 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.495 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, RP_MATCHES_RCVD=-0.594, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id kO1WNJBlfUlD for ; Fri, 21 Nov 2014 07:42:25 -0800 (PST) Received: from mail.tail-f.com (mail.tail-f.com [83.241.162.140]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5DE641A1A56 for ; Fri, 21 Nov 2014 07:42:02 -0800 (PST) Received: from localhost (unknown [193.13.112.215]) by mail.tail-f.com (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 5B4E112809BC; Fri, 21 Nov 2014 16:42:01 +0100 (CET) Date: Fri, 21 Nov 2014 16:42:27 +0100 (CET) Message-Id: <20141121.164227.195749506631494801.mbj@tail-f.com> To: andy@yumaworks.com From: Martin Bjorklund In-Reply-To: References: <20141120.104521.1995721665500861043.mbj@tail-f.com> <83A8BAC1-1970-415E-A579-B2B9B32A4EBE@nic.cz> X-Mailer: Mew version 6.5 on Emacs 24.3 / Mule 6.0 (HANACHIRUSATO) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: Text/Plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Archived-At: http://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/netmod/hldP4TLsRjXDj6scgll2QS5abDk Cc: netmod@ietf.org Subject: Re: [netmod] Y09: optional keys X-BeenThere: netmod@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: NETMOD WG list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 21 Nov 2014 15:42:28 -0000 Andy Bierman wrote: > On Thu, Nov 20, 2014 at 2:07 AM, Ladislav Lhotka wrote: > > > > On 20 Nov 2014, at 10:45, Martin Bjorklund wrote: > > > >> Hi, > >> > >> I have added Y09-03, as decided in the meeting yesterday. > >> > >> However, I think the arguments given for Y09-03 are all moot. > >> > >> The arguments were: > >> > >> o The instance-identifier syntax proposed in Y09-02 doesn't work, > >> b/c empty strings and 0-values integers would also return "true" > >> in the expression "not(key)". > >> > >> -- But this turned out to be a false claim; the syntax proposed in > >> Y09-02 is correct. > >> > >> o Y09-02 is tricky to implement in "common databases", since they > >> require values for all keys. > >> > >> -- But the idea for how to handle Y09-03 in these databases was to > >> store additional info that the default value is set. The same > >> technique can be used to handle purely optional keys. > >> > >> > >> Thus, I think there are no reasons for doing Y09-03. > > > > +1, I think Y09-02 should be fine. > > > > RFC 6536 (NACM) does not support optional keys. > The new instance-identifier syntax is not accepted by NACM. Correct. In order to be able to use NACM for these entries, we need an updated version of NACM. The good news is that the changes are minimal for this particular issue. Essentially we just need to refer to the YANG 1.1 spec instead of 6020 - the text as written works for the new syntax for i-i as well. It is probably a good idea to clearly state this in the description of 'node-instance-identifier' though. /martin From nobody Fri Nov 21 07:42:44 2014 Return-Path: X-Original-To: netmod@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: netmod@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id B21191A1A69 for ; Fri, 21 Nov 2014 07:42:40 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.245 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.245 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, HELO_EQ_CZ=0.445, HOST_EQ_CZ=0.904, RP_MATCHES_RCVD=-0.594] autolearn=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id lD4C5BipmS5G for ; Fri, 21 Nov 2014 07:42:33 -0800 (PST) Received: from mail.nic.cz (mail.nic.cz [IPv6:2001:1488:800:400::400]) (using TLSv1 with cipher ADH-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 718921A1A57 for ; Fri, 21 Nov 2014 07:42:08 -0800 (PST) Received: from [192.168.1.108] (unknown [195.113.220.254]) by mail.nic.cz (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id DAA881416A4; Fri, 21 Nov 2014 16:42:06 +0100 (CET) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=simple/simple; d=nic.cz; s=default; t=1416584527; bh=cr3+LoqEj514WcVoGYJ2MR1cT1cbgxAGpZnuN9O2L6A=; h=Content-Type:Mime-Version:Subject:From:In-Reply-To:Date:Cc: Content-Transfer-Encoding:Message-Id:References:To; b=MAHrebrYMuMFDpAalATzygNapTcTauCJpYsZ67szUsqiV3K5pZ9mHCtwK56DFQJ1T sjWdyNZ7tvpRDwWTI6CbAbYZh/cz68CM6Alt38NtkVrq87neWN7HaMeWu/i3LOunmf 6iJPE59eoSbRT/e8Q3S/Zu6ysFF3sJh9PhjT6bkA= Content-Type: text/plain; charset=windows-1252 Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 7.3 \(1878.6\)) From: Ladislav Lhotka In-Reply-To: Date: Fri, 21 Nov 2014 16:42:06 +0100 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Message-Id: <00ABCD94-FAA3-4B49-A489-679D5AA2E0EE@nic.cz> References: <20141120.095544.241105593989651686.mbj@tail-f.com> <20141120.104521.1995721665500861043.mbj@tail-f.com> <83A8BAC1-1970-415E-A579-B2B9B32A4EBE@nic.cz> To: Andy Bierman X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.1878.6) X-Virus-Scanned: clamav-milter 0.98.1 at mail X-Virus-Status: Clean Archived-At: http://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/netmod/wQidjw1v22ugwC5GcHKLOSaYE6o Cc: "netmod@ietf.org" Subject: Re: [netmod] Y09: optional keys X-BeenThere: netmod@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: NETMOD WG list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 21 Nov 2014 15:42:41 -0000 On 21 Nov 2014, at 16:34, Andy Bierman wrote: > On Thu, Nov 20, 2014 at 2:07 AM, Ladislav Lhotka = wrote: >>=20 >> On 20 Nov 2014, at 10:45, Martin Bjorklund wrote: >>=20 >>> Hi, >>>=20 >>> I have added Y09-03, as decided in the meeting yesterday. >>>=20 >>> However, I think the arguments given for Y09-03 are all moot. >>>=20 >>> The arguments were: >>>=20 >>> o The instance-identifier syntax proposed in Y09-02 doesn't work, >>> b/c empty strings and 0-values integers would also return "true" >>> in the expression "not(key)". >>>=20 >>> -- But this turned out to be a false claim; the syntax proposed in >>> Y09-02 is correct. >>>=20 >>> o Y09-02 is tricky to implement in "common databases", since they >>> require values for all keys. >>>=20 >>> -- But the idea for how to handle Y09-03 in these databases was to >>> store additional info that the default value is set. The same >>> technique can be used to handle purely optional keys. >>>=20 >>>=20 >>> Thus, I think there are no reasons for doing Y09-03. >>=20 >> +1, I think Y09-02 should be fine. >>=20 >=20 > RFC 6536 (NACM) does not support optional keys. > The new instance-identifier syntax is not accepted by NACM. > Simply leaving out the optional key predicate in NACM will cause > the data-rule to match all values of that key. NACM is YANG 1.0, so it would have to be updated. >=20 > I do not support this change to YANG 1.1. > The impact on implementations is pervasive and severe, > and the apparent use-case is for a small number of lists > that could have optional keys, but no value is available > to indicate "not-in-use" for 1 or more optional keys. Isn=92t it the proposed [not(optkey)]? Lada=20 >=20 >=20 >> Lada >>=20 >>>=20 >>>=20 >>> /martin >=20 > Andy >=20 >>>=20 >>> _______________________________________________ >>> netmod mailing list >>> netmod@ietf.org >>> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/netmod >>=20 >> -- >> Ladislav Lhotka, CZ.NIC Labs >> PGP Key ID: E74E8C0C >>=20 >>=20 >>=20 >>=20 >> _______________________________________________ >> netmod mailing list >> netmod@ietf.org >> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/netmod -- Ladislav Lhotka, CZ.NIC Labs PGP Key ID: E74E8C0C From nobody Fri Nov 21 08:12:04 2014 Return-Path: X-Original-To: netmod@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: netmod@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 58A291A1A69 for ; Fri, 21 Nov 2014 08:12:03 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.979 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.979 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, FM_FORGED_GMAIL=0.622, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW=-0.7, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id BVDK3xhhShPP for ; Fri, 21 Nov 2014 08:12:01 -0800 (PST) Received: from mail-qa0-f53.google.com (mail-qa0-f53.google.com [209.85.216.53]) (using TLSv1 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-RC4-SHA (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 1DE401A038E for ; Fri, 21 Nov 2014 08:12:01 -0800 (PST) Received: by mail-qa0-f53.google.com with SMTP id bm13so3670078qab.12 for ; Fri, 21 Nov 2014 08:11:57 -0800 (PST) X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20130820; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:in-reply-to:references:date :message-id:subject:from:to:cc:content-type; bh=W3ta/b04ug0BC0kH5DrJT+F5q7Nk2i7jUTEeWG2tKyY=; b=aisr7vvTtlYoGW+9Eqmnmrmuc7tJIpHO/FJUij0pMpy5f044mXkYnK2IlpaTGHN+SO t7R+iN8mMz0WDg5hNSp9/6UqJJuMV6V9X2OMiZZZIUcBRyqRkqUjYmUudTtrykcna+51 eZxTGh9kDIFPXFaTDEbytwA0pym/MSmdLgB3tVsp49tpB9dkYFvCnxj5n4871uYi/bbn MHThRyc1SVAABclOq21PNzWqIPsw9OKitDa/2aazqCKdCjuSA754cKG85uhiPAkMDHAo obXGIlWJGvndRi9Or2FXAP3boSXjxmH3ztJgjr75Xqe9f9cywwedG55g86pKnEF7qm0b CKTQ== X-Gm-Message-State: ALoCoQmRUBUxJBbA9MOyUBaQOBc+CYuaQkADO5WHiPsqbSBsG6LDq4UR6UZ1urKC8mBCy9PJ8dOn MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Received: by 10.140.81.36 with SMTP id e33mr7363217qgd.90.1416586317795; Fri, 21 Nov 2014 08:11:57 -0800 (PST) Received: by 10.140.37.52 with HTTP; Fri, 21 Nov 2014 08:11:57 -0800 (PST) In-Reply-To: <20141121.164227.195749506631494801.mbj@tail-f.com> References: <20141120.104521.1995721665500861043.mbj@tail-f.com> <83A8BAC1-1970-415E-A579-B2B9B32A4EBE@nic.cz> <20141121.164227.195749506631494801.mbj@tail-f.com> Date: Fri, 21 Nov 2014 08:11:57 -0800 Message-ID: From: Andy Bierman To: Martin Bjorklund Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Archived-At: http://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/netmod/1pJIYBWsJAzm8L6WzRERq04aO7A Cc: "netmod@ietf.org" Subject: Re: [netmod] Y09: optional keys X-BeenThere: netmod@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: NETMOD WG list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 21 Nov 2014 16:12:03 -0000 On Fri, Nov 21, 2014 at 7:42 AM, Martin Bjorklund wrote: > Andy Bierman wrote: >> On Thu, Nov 20, 2014 at 2:07 AM, Ladislav Lhotka wrote: >> > >> > On 20 Nov 2014, at 10:45, Martin Bjorklund wrote: >> > >> >> Hi, >> >> >> >> I have added Y09-03, as decided in the meeting yesterday. >> >> >> >> However, I think the arguments given for Y09-03 are all moot. >> >> >> >> The arguments were: >> >> >> >> o The instance-identifier syntax proposed in Y09-02 doesn't work, >> >> b/c empty strings and 0-values integers would also return "true" >> >> in the expression "not(key)". >> >> >> >> -- But this turned out to be a false claim; the syntax proposed in >> >> Y09-02 is correct. >> >> >> >> o Y09-02 is tricky to implement in "common databases", since they >> >> require values for all keys. >> >> >> >> -- But the idea for how to handle Y09-03 in these databases was to >> >> store additional info that the default value is set. The same >> >> technique can be used to handle purely optional keys. >> >> >> >> >> >> Thus, I think there are no reasons for doing Y09-03. >> > >> > +1, I think Y09-02 should be fine. >> > >> >> RFC 6536 (NACM) does not support optional keys. >> The new instance-identifier syntax is not accepted by NACM. > > Correct. In order to be able to use NACM for these entries, we need > an updated version of NACM. The good news is that the changes are > minimal for this particular issue. Essentially we just need to refer > to the YANG 1.1 spec instead of 6020 - the text as written works for > the new syntax for i-i as well. It is probably a good idea to clearly > state this in the description of 'node-instance-identifier' though. > > Somehow this minor maintenance release of YANG has a lot of new bells and whistles, some of which have a huge impact on existing implementations. It is turning into a forklift upgrade, which lowers the probability it will be implemented. I don't know of any databases that support optional keys. It is not supported in SNMP either. This is a new feature, not any sort of bug-fix. > /martin Andy From nobody Fri Nov 21 12:16:26 2014 Return-Path: X-Original-To: netmod@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: netmod@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id DEB001A6F2C for ; Fri, 21 Nov 2014 12:16:21 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -0.978 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-0.978 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, FM_FORGED_GMAIL=0.622, GB_AFFORDABLE=1, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW=-0.7, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 2p5gNera_8Rk for ; Fri, 21 Nov 2014 12:16:18 -0800 (PST) Received: from mail-la0-f42.google.com (mail-la0-f42.google.com [209.85.215.42]) (using TLSv1 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-RC4-SHA (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id C497F1A1ADF for ; Fri, 21 Nov 2014 12:16:17 -0800 (PST) Received: by mail-la0-f42.google.com with SMTP id s18so4962437lam.29 for ; Fri, 21 Nov 2014 12:16:15 -0800 (PST) X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20130820; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:in-reply-to:references:date :message-id:subject:from:to:cc:content-type; bh=VeOu07TQulEex4ZZTQjJrknfx4eHeDhVGNr/j9uCqe4=; b=Z2a/KxTLcwe7y+DNc0cqCnOXIYC3kiS/+e1pCyq1miPMpka5Z+UBnyAgckgK+fQpdQ 03Ch4JJ13Hv0fu6TR3FzsTJmmxdlO+S54pVb1gMB6Pw7/fsgOO1VIZCnLB0URBqPcGbt KHmDSUF4n2DpVGZxnle8VKRkYWDjIdEEnY9QiOZQMHTb/Uqz32P27KM9lFV+8tf0SzYK 6EKQQLGodQaAy8c3uS4n36UoCKSNJEosmKpsKfYIDjql2PLIYx+GpwRffx846/yPhiok kyqdCABLEPYZnxRVN3duxq8unPiuPszjQd+xMv2CnHE1wCIFlpS+aqk9LyQ3rhjDzPfU qHbg== X-Gm-Message-State: ALoCoQk0nFAX8PhZ3rRLEzb8KIc+xeC1yRtoe/0rKeiusjsxW4eVPP8lCzGJRk8fpjM47Ma2Z2/d MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Received: by 10.112.130.65 with SMTP id oc1mr7507023lbb.7.1416600975373; Fri, 21 Nov 2014 12:16:15 -0800 (PST) Received: by 10.112.130.234 with HTTP; Fri, 21 Nov 2014 12:16:15 -0800 (PST) In-Reply-To: References: <3B675C3A8DF102408C754E30986E43CF05CE77E9@xmb-aln-x08.cisco.com> <3B675C3A8DF102408C754E30986E43CF05CE789B@xmb-aln-x08.cisco.com> <20141031101045.GA2139@elstar.local> <3B675C3A8DF102408C754E30986E43CF05CE78D5@xmb-aln-x08.cisco.com> <20141031120930.GA2576@elstar.local> <3B675C3A8DF102408C754E30986E43CF05CF43DC@xmb-aln-x08.cisco.com> Date: Fri, 21 Nov 2014 15:16:15 -0500 Message-ID: From: Sander Mertens To: "Eric Voit (evoit)" Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=047d7b343318ed127a0508641daf Archived-At: http://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/netmod/oagELA0jQT0TmI6CPGCrUz5KMmo Cc: "netmod@ietf.org" Subject: Re: [netmod] YANG model containing both device and domain config X-BeenThere: netmod@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: NETMOD WG list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 21 Nov 2014 20:16:22 -0000 --047d7b343318ed127a0508641daf Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Eric let me know that some concerns were voiced around whether the peer mount architecture would or would not be scalable. Peer mount could be an excellent front end for a highly distributed, eventually consistent object store, such as the one that we are selling. Many customers in different industries have trusted their business critical processes with us. We support systems that scale anywhere between a handful and millions of devices (on commodity hardware) while realizing high throughput (100K - 1M messages/sec) and latencies as low as 40 microseconds on a LAN. I just published this presentation that outlines a number of common pitfalls we have encountered with customers that are trying to scale up their system, and how we address them: http://www.slideshare.net/SanderMertens1/5-reasons-why-you-will-fail-to-scale-your-io-t-system On 6 November 2014 08:56, Eric Voit (evoit) wrote: > > From: Qin Wu, November 05, 2014 3:25 AM > > > > > It seems complicate to rely on manual configuration or pub/sub > > > mechanism to search a subset of interested data nodes in the remote > > > datastore of all the NC servers? > > > > I agree this cannot be manual. The pub/sub itself will be driven > automatically. > > This is a core capability of OpenDaylight which Network Elements can also > > leverage in certain cases. > > > > [Qin]: I am a little bit concerned about the pub/sub being driven > automatically. It > > seems you imply NC server's subscriptions to remote object updates in the > > controller can further trigger this controller to subscribe to the > remote object > > updates in all the NC servers? How does this controller know which NC > server > > has subtrees or data nodes the controller is interested before sub/push? > > Or you assume the controller poll for all the NC servers for discovery? > > OpenDaylight has over 100 YANG models > > https://wiki.opendaylight.org/view/OpenDaylight_Controller:MD-SAL:Model_Reference > only a small subset of these are RFCs or IETF drafts. Topology and > Inventory models are included in this expanding set. > > Controllers must constantly monitor the network via a large set of > protocols attached to these models to have a meaningful view of current > network state. Auto-discovery of everything is essential for any > controller to operate affordably. This is independent of any Pub/Sub. > > As the controller's topology and inventory get auto-populated, > Applications may use this information to glean what type targeted > subscriptions are viable. As you suggest, indiscriminant subscriptions are > unaffordable. > > > > If you are proposing incremental update, why not ask application > > > subscriber to each NC server/device directly? Why complicate > > > controller to cache updated data retrieved from each remote datastore > in all > > the NC severs? > > > > Performance time for some applications demands local caching. In > addition, 1:N > > and even two tiered distribution of Peer Mount updates will reduce > scaling > > requirements for the Authoritative data source. > > > > [Qin]: Again, I have concern about two tiered distribution of Peer > Mount, how > > does the NC server knows which controller can provide its interested data > > before subscription? How does the controller knows Which NC server can > > provide its interested data before subscription. Blind subscription > seems time > > wasting or not efficient. > > Agree that blind subscriptions are totally unaffordable. OpenDaylight has > not instituted many controls yet that stop applications from making dumb > design choices. > > As for two tiered distribution, this is implemented by many vendors -- > although often it is often hidden under the covers. For example, > distributed line cards will often be secondary recipients of config > information passed to a large router. Another good example is DNS which > has a multi-tier implementation to enable high scalability. > > I don't need multi-tier for the applications I am building. But I don't > want to preclude this option for those who might find it useful. > > Eric > > > Eric > _______________________________________________ > netmod mailing list > netmod@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/netmod > --047d7b343318ed127a0508641daf Content-Type: text/html; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Eric let me know that some concerns were voiced aroun= d whether the peer mount architecture would or would not be scalable.=C2=A0=

Peer mount could be an excellent front end fo= r a highly distributed, eventually consistent object store, such as the one= that we are selling. Many customers=C2=A0in different industries have trusted their business cr= itical processes with us.=C2=A0

We support systems= that scale anywhere between a handful and millions of devices (on commodit= y hardware) while realizing high throughput (100K - 1M messages/sec) and la= tencies as low as 40 microseconds on a LAN.

I just= published this presentation that outlines a number of common pitfalls we h= ave encountered with customers that are trying to scale up their system, an= d how we address them:



On 6 November 2= 014 08:56, Eric Voit (evoit) <evoit@cisco.com> wrote:
> From: Qin Wu, November 05, 2014 3:25 AM
>
> > It seems complicate to rely on manual configuration or pub/sub > > mechanism to search a subset of interested data nodes in the remo= te
> > datastore of all the NC servers?
>
> I agree this cannot be manual.=C2=A0 =C2=A0The pub/sub itself will be = driven automatically.
> This is a core capability of OpenDaylight which Network Elements can a= lso
> leverage in certain cases.
>
> [Qin]: I am a little bit concerned about the pub/sub being driven auto= matically. It
> seems you imply NC server's subscriptions to remote object updates= in the
> controller can further trigger this controller to subscribe to the rem= ote object
> updates in all the NC servers? How does this controller know which NC = server
> has subtrees or data nodes the controller is interested before sub/pus= h?
> Or you assume the controller poll for all the NC servers for discovery= ?

OpenDaylight has over 100 YANG models
https://wiki.opendaylight.org/view/Ope= nDaylight_Controller:MD-SAL:Model_Reference
only a small subset of these are RFCs or IETF drafts.=C2=A0 Topology and In= ventory models are included in this expanding set.

Controllers must constantly monitor the network via a large set of protocol= s attached to these models to have a meaningful view of current network sta= te.=C2=A0 =C2=A0Auto-discovery of everything is essential for any controlle= r to operate affordably.=C2=A0 This is independent of any Pub/Sub.

As the controller's topology and inventory get auto-populated, Applicat= ions may use this information to glean what type targeted subscriptions are= viable.=C2=A0 As you suggest, indiscriminant subscriptions are unaffordabl= e.

> > If you are proposing incremental update, why not ask application<= br> > > subscriber to each NC server/device directly? Why complicate
> > controller to cache updated data retrieved from each remote datas= tore in all
> the NC severs?
>
> Performance time for some applications demands local caching.=C2=A0 In= addition, 1:N
> and even two tiered distribution of Peer Mount updates will reduce sca= ling
> requirements for the Authoritative data source.
>
> [Qin]: Again, I have concern about two tiered distribution of Peer Mou= nt, how
> does the NC server knows which controller can provide its interested d= ata
> before subscription? How does the controller knows Which NC server can=
> provide its interested data before subscription. Blind subscription se= ems time
> wasting or not efficient.

Agree that blind subscriptions are totally unaffordable.=C2=A0 OpenD= aylight has not instituted many controls yet that stop applications from ma= king dumb design choices.

As for two tiered distribution, this is implemented by many vendors -- alth= ough often it is often hidden under the covers.=C2=A0 For example, distribu= ted line cards will often be secondary recipients of config information pas= sed to a large router.=C2=A0 Another good example is DNS which has a multi-= tier implementation to enable high scalability.

I don't need multi-tier for the applications I am building.=C2=A0 But I= don't want to preclude this option for those who might find it useful.=

Eric

> Eric
_______________________________________________
netmod mailing list
netmod@ietf.org
= https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/netmod

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21 Nov 2014 23:12:09 +0000 Received: from xhc-aln-x14.cisco.com (xhc-aln-x14.cisco.com [173.36.12.88]) by alln-core-1.cisco.com (8.14.5/8.14.5) with ESMTP id sALNC9tj006817 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=AES128-SHA bits=128 verify=FAIL); Fri, 21 Nov 2014 23:12:09 GMT Received: from xmb-aln-x11.cisco.com ([169.254.6.205]) by xhc-aln-x14.cisco.com ([173.36.12.88]) with mapi id 14.03.0195.001; Fri, 21 Nov 2014 17:12:09 -0600 From: "Eric Voit (evoit)" To: Sander Mertens , "netmod@ietf.org" Thread-Topic: [netmod] YANG model containing both device and domain config Thread-Index: AQHP9Ncc0r5QzlOUmUKJvUWcHn/dupxKGtSAgAAB7ACAAC6HAIAABL2AgAAGbgCAABq9AIAALocAgAGdxoCAAAslAP//11BwgAKGV4CAAFFhQIADJ0+AgAF8yWCAGG8mgP//xVLw Date: Fri, 21 Nov 2014 23:12:08 +0000 Message-ID: References: <3B675C3A8DF102408C754E30986E43CF05CE77E9@xmb-aln-x08.cisco.com> <3B675C3A8DF102408C754E30986E43CF05CE789B@xmb-aln-x08.cisco.com> <20141031101045.GA2139@elstar.local> <3B675C3A8DF102408C754E30986E43CF05CE78D5@xmb-aln-x08.cisco.com> <20141031120930.GA2576@elstar.local> <3B675C3A8DF102408C754E30986E43CF05CF43DC@xmb-aln-x08.cisco.com> In-Reply-To: Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-originating-ip: [10.86.242.51] Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="_000_EF64FF31F4C4384DBCE5D513A791C2B120A95B86xmbalnx11ciscoc_" MIME-Version: 1.0 Archived-At: http://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/netmod/0WYvhLfXNO8CbayoHd8GXcL3-mA Subject: Re: [netmod] YANG model containing both device and domain config X-BeenThere: netmod@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: NETMOD WG list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 21 Nov 2014 23:12:15 -0000 --_000_EF64FF31F4C4384DBCE5D513A791C2B120A95B86xmbalnx11ciscoc_ Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 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2014 Return-Path: X-Original-To: netmod@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: netmod@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 721D41A033A for ; Sun, 23 Nov 2014 08:24:12 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.979 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.979 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, FM_FORGED_GMAIL=0.622, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW=-0.7, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id YV2Y4qldzr_y for ; Sun, 23 Nov 2014 08:24:10 -0800 (PST) Received: from mail-qc0-f182.google.com (mail-qc0-f182.google.com [209.85.216.182]) (using TLSv1 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-RC4-SHA (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id D1AF81A0027 for ; Sun, 23 Nov 2014 08:24:09 -0800 (PST) Received: by mail-qc0-f182.google.com with 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<20141119.111154.217079456944529909.mbj@tail-f.com> <201411191659.sAJGxW6i089973@idle.juniper.net> <20141119.185244.71765139292686917.mbj@tail-f.com> Date: Sun, 23 Nov 2014 08:24:08 -0800 Message-ID: From: Andy Bierman To: Ladislav Lhotka Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Archived-At: http://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/netmod/ZY50KRuVxQTVdN4RaY8S1XWnwIQ Cc: "netmod@ietf.org" Subject: Re: [netmod] Y26: mandatory nodes in augment X-BeenThere: netmod@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: NETMOD WG list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sun, 23 Nov 2014 16:24:12 -0000 On Thu, Nov 20, 2014 at 1:27 AM, Ladislav Lhotka wrote: > Martin Bjorklund writes: > >> Phil Shafer wrote: >>> Martin Bjorklund writes: >>> >But the current rule is overly restrictive. For example, if a module >>> >defines an identity, and at the same time an augment that is >>> >conditional on that identity, it would be fine: >>> > >>> > identity ethernet { >>> > base if:interface-type; >>> > } >>> > >>> > augment /if:interfaces/if:interface { >>> > when "if:type = 'ex:ethernet'"; >>> > } >>> >>> So since only one that implements this module would be >>> able to add the nodes in this module. Any client not >>> understanding this module would not be able to create >>> these nodes, and so would not need to know what is >>> mandatory. >>> >>> Ok, I can see this, but how does one limit it to cases like this >>> without opening clients to breakage? >> >> Right, this is why we have: >> >> The proposal is to add general guiding rules >> that backwards compatibility needs to be maintained. Lets see >> whether someone can write more concrete rules when mandatory nodes >> in augment are allowed. > > I think it is in the interest of a module writer to avoid backward > compatibility problem as much as possible. Maybe it needn't be enforced > in the language but just give appropriate guidelines in 6087bis. > > Sometimes it might be desirable to break the backward compatibility, > e.g. if the old module has a security hole and a fix is provided through > an augment. > The solution we have in YANG is to change the status to "obsolete", if an existing definition is found to be harmful. If a server update breaks old clients, the vendor is likely to hear about it from unhappy developers and operators. This is the sort of CLR that gets followed. If an external augment add mandatory nodes that break any exiting clients, then it will be visible to the vendor, and no amount of IETF wordsmithing is going to help the server developer who added the mandatory augment win that argument. > Lada > Andy >> >> :) >> >> >> /martin >> >> _______________________________________________ >> netmod mailing list >> netmod@ietf.org >> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/netmod > > -- > Ladislav Lhotka, CZ.NIC Labs > PGP Key ID: E74E8C0C > > _______________________________________________ > netmod mailing list > netmod@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/netmod From nobody Mon Nov 24 05:20:55 2014 Return-Path: X-Original-To: netmod@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: netmod@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 874D91A6F38 for ; Mon, 24 Nov 2014 05:20:43 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: 0.8 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=0.8 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_50=0.8] autolearn=ham Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id KAO6wP-4Aef7 for ; Mon, 24 Nov 2014 05:20:39 -0800 (PST) Received: from trail.lhotka.name (trail.lhotka.name [77.48.224.143]) (using TLSv1.1 with cipher AECDH-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id BA0841A6F34 for ; Mon, 24 Nov 2014 05:20:38 -0800 (PST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by trail.lhotka.name (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3793D54058F for ; Mon, 24 Nov 2014 14:20:35 +0100 (CET) Received: from trail.lhotka.name ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (trail.lhotka.name [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id dzoPiX0P0kRp for ; Mon, 24 Nov 2014 14:20:31 +0100 (CET) Received: from localhost (unknown [195.113.220.254]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by trail.lhotka.name (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id BDFA754000E for ; Mon, 24 Nov 2014 14:20:31 +0100 (CET) From: Ladislav Lhotka To: netmod@ietf.org User-Agent: Notmuch/0.18.1 (http://notmuchmail.org) Emacs/24.4.51.2 (x86_64-apple-darwin14.0.0) Date: Mon, 24 Nov 2014 14:20:32 +0100 Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Archived-At: http://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/netmod/OsfICdP2KS01yqgKgZcg_XRouFM Subject: [netmod] yang-metadata issues X-BeenThere: netmod@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: NETMOD WG list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 24 Nov 2014 13:20:45 -0000 Hi, below is the list of open issues regarding draft-lhotka-netmod-yang-metadata-00. Please indicate your preferences, or add your own issues if you have any. 1. Extension or built-in YANG 1.1 statement? The extension as defined in the I-D would work but if more than a handful of annotations are expected to be defined, it would be more effective to have "annotation" as a built-in statement in YANG 1.1. 2. JSON encoding of annotations - namespace Every annotation belongs to the namespace of the YANG module where it is defined. In XML, the namespace encoding follows the standard URI/prefix rules. In JSON, it is currently required that every use of every annotation is prefixed with a namespace ID (module name). In accordance with the rules of namespace encoding in draft-ietf-netmod-yang-json-01, it would be possible to omit the namespace ID if the annotation is defined in the same module as the parent node (i.e. the node that's being annotated). Does it make sense? Thanks, Lada -- Ladislav Lhotka, CZ.NIC Labs PGP Key ID: E74E8C0C From nobody Mon Nov 24 06:27:18 2014 Return-Path: X-Original-To: netmod@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: netmod@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7F02B1A024C for ; Mon, 24 Nov 2014 06:27:16 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.9 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.9 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9] autolearn=ham Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 6YJEc0EGkMn6 for ; Mon, 24 Nov 2014 06:27:13 -0800 (PST) Received: from trail.lhotka.name (trail.lhotka.name [77.48.224.143]) (using TLSv1.1 with cipher AECDH-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 6688E1A0210 for ; Mon, 24 Nov 2014 06:27:13 -0800 (PST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by trail.lhotka.name (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8BB0D54058F; Mon, 24 Nov 2014 15:27:11 +0100 (CET) Received: from trail.lhotka.name ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (trail.lhotka.name [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id JPhSlq+RE0Z8; Mon, 24 Nov 2014 15:27:06 +0100 (CET) Received: from localhost (unknown [195.113.220.254]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by trail.lhotka.name (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id B26FE5401F1; Mon, 24 Nov 2014 15:27:04 +0100 (CET) From: Ladislav Lhotka To: Andy Bierman In-Reply-To: References: <20141119.111154.217079456944529909.mbj@tail-f.com> <201411191659.sAJGxW6i089973@idle.juniper.net> <20141119.185244.71765139292686917.mbj@tail-f.com> User-Agent: Notmuch/0.18.1 (http://notmuchmail.org) Emacs/24.4.51.2 (x86_64-apple-darwin14.0.0) Date: Mon, 24 Nov 2014 15:27:03 +0100 Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Archived-At: http://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/netmod/5QdM3BJdsn9XIf0B9iAws0MPZ34 Cc: "netmod@ietf.org" Subject: Re: [netmod] Y26: mandatory nodes in augment X-BeenThere: netmod@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: NETMOD WG list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 24 Nov 2014 14:27:16 -0000 Andy Bierman writes: > On Thu, Nov 20, 2014 at 1:27 AM, Ladislav Lhotka wrote: >> Martin Bjorklund writes: >> >>> Phil Shafer wrote: >>>> Martin Bjorklund writes: >>>> >But the current rule is overly restrictive. For example, if a module >>>> >defines an identity, and at the same time an augment that is >>>> >conditional on that identity, it would be fine: >>>> > >>>> > identity ethernet { >>>> > base if:interface-type; >>>> > } >>>> > >>>> > augment /if:interfaces/if:interface { >>>> > when "if:type = 'ex:ethernet'"; >>>> > } >>>> >>>> So since only one that implements this module would be >>>> able to add the nodes in this module. Any client not >>>> understanding this module would not be able to create >>>> these nodes, and so would not need to know what is >>>> mandatory. >>>> >>>> Ok, I can see this, but how does one limit it to cases like this >>>> without opening clients to breakage? >>> >>> Right, this is why we have: >>> >>> The proposal is to add general guiding rules >>> that backwards compatibility needs to be maintained. Lets see >>> whether someone can write more concrete rules when mandatory nodes >>> in augment are allowed. >> >> I think it is in the interest of a module writer to avoid backward >> compatibility problem as much as possible. Maybe it needn't be enforced >> in the language but just give appropriate guidelines in 6087bis. >> >> Sometimes it might be desirable to break the backward compatibility, >> e.g. if the old module has a security hole and a fix is provided through >> an augment. >> > > > The solution we have in YANG is to change the status to "obsolete", > if an existing definition is found to be harmful. This solution won't work if the fix is based on adding stuff rather than removing. > > If a server update breaks old clients, the vendor is likely > to hear about it from unhappy developers and operators. > This is the sort of CLR that gets followed. Strict backward compatibility rules - for augments or new module revisions - could be useful if the set of YANG modules were relatively stable. However, this is not the current situation because everything is in flux. Insisting on compatibility rules means that either - we will end up with awkward modules having too loose constrains and containing a lot of obsolete stuff, or - old modules will be abandoned and new ones started instead. I am not sure either of these will make developers or operators any happier in the long run. Lada > > If an external augment add mandatory nodes that break > any exiting clients, then it will be visible to the vendor, > and no amount of IETF wordsmithing is going to help > the server developer who added the mandatory augment > win that argument. > > > >> Lada >> > > Andy > >>> >>> :) >>> >>> >>> /martin >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> netmod mailing list >>> netmod@ietf.org >>> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/netmod >> >> -- >> Ladislav Lhotka, CZ.NIC Labs >> PGP Key ID: E74E8C0C >> >> _______________________________________________ >> netmod mailing list >> netmod@ietf.org >> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/netmod -- Ladislav Lhotka, CZ.NIC Labs PGP Key ID: E74E8C0C From nobody Mon Nov 24 06:49:59 2014 Return-Path: X-Original-To: netmod@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: netmod@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 025821A024C for ; Mon, 24 Nov 2014 06:49:58 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.979 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.979 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, FM_FORGED_GMAIL=0.622, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW=-0.7, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 8I0zHxhIHLw5 for ; Mon, 24 Nov 2014 06:49:55 -0800 (PST) Received: from mail-qg0-f44.google.com (mail-qg0-f44.google.com [209.85.192.44]) (using TLSv1 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-RC4-SHA (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id A080E1A6FA6 for ; Mon, 24 Nov 2014 06:49:54 -0800 (PST) Received: by mail-qg0-f44.google.com with SMTP id z60so6870728qgd.31 for ; Mon, 24 Nov 2014 06:49:53 -0800 (PST) X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20130820; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:in-reply-to:references:date :message-id:subject:from:to:cc:content-type; bh=PrYR1SZKRHzJrYwHtPMQft9LoXrhS6jLvD4OMnuXSt8=; b=V9jwODXWqXfWPvyhcVbFfZYGjl+zOcPKDkgvXJ8wqnzG5dIUd/cVJrUJJiMWg37Wgj ELOLQ2Qy2Mx9v1eAR8lsJPG0TbCpGKmsr5yMTHrW/xr+gWV0seRZyjcKqtyHD2YOYxm1 LWWCy46E4xg0rryz3jki3W0steaM+5qPp2LXx6X+2dl+KxkXmWbXTwoCFQO6KeL7iB1R IIVOpqlFC0xantmMHb9ruZfpxZesK24kyRD+iK0r+U+xq3NUFKDGTXl18YpkSXk0NSHm YnyerwNS8gYaV3fbK3uSi70e2OGy18dSWnxVOBoZGiH0l0wNbOIFJlxs+BWueBvnmQ+a SGDw== X-Gm-Message-State: ALoCoQnn7K30Xn1Sntl/cq9E+fZDut5U8Y81Z2ZKToyg7d6cmqjVu+YhG66KsC5gbzPxmGWAGcqE MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Received: by 10.140.109.102 with SMTP id k93mr29466875qgf.83.1416840593835; Mon, 24 Nov 2014 06:49:53 -0800 (PST) Received: by 10.140.37.52 with HTTP; Mon, 24 Nov 2014 06:49:53 -0800 (PST) In-Reply-To: References: <20141119.111154.217079456944529909.mbj@tail-f.com> <201411191659.sAJGxW6i089973@idle.juniper.net> <20141119.185244.71765139292686917.mbj@tail-f.com> Date: Mon, 24 Nov 2014 06:49:53 -0800 Message-ID: From: Andy Bierman To: Ladislav Lhotka Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Archived-At: http://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/netmod/baCuQu4a_RFvP_W4OQnjf6zoGyQ Cc: "netmod@ietf.org" Subject: Re: [netmod] Y26: mandatory nodes in augment X-BeenThere: netmod@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: NETMOD WG list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 24 Nov 2014 14:49:58 -0000 On Mon, Nov 24, 2014 at 6:27 AM, Ladislav Lhotka wrote: > Andy Bierman writes: > >> On Thu, Nov 20, 2014 at 1:27 AM, Ladislav Lhotka wrote: >>> Martin Bjorklund writes: >>> >>>> Phil Shafer wrote: >>>>> Martin Bjorklund writes: >>>>> >But the current rule is overly restrictive. For example, if a module >>>>> >defines an identity, and at the same time an augment that is >>>>> >conditional on that identity, it would be fine: >>>>> > >>>>> > identity ethernet { >>>>> > base if:interface-type; >>>>> > } >>>>> > >>>>> > augment /if:interfaces/if:interface { >>>>> > when "if:type = 'ex:ethernet'"; >>>>> > } >>>>> >>>>> So since only one that implements this module would be >>>>> able to add the nodes in this module. Any client not >>>>> understanding this module would not be able to create >>>>> these nodes, and so would not need to know what is >>>>> mandatory. >>>>> >>>>> Ok, I can see this, but how does one limit it to cases like this >>>>> without opening clients to breakage? >>>> >>>> Right, this is why we have: >>>> >>>> The proposal is to add general guiding rules >>>> that backwards compatibility needs to be maintained. Lets see >>>> whether someone can write more concrete rules when mandatory nodes >>>> in augment are allowed. >>> >>> I think it is in the interest of a module writer to avoid backward >>> compatibility problem as much as possible. Maybe it needn't be enforced >>> in the language but just give appropriate guidelines in 6087bis. >>> >>> Sometimes it might be desirable to break the backward compatibility, >>> e.g. if the old module has a security hole and a fix is provided through >>> an augment. >>> >> >> >> The solution we have in YANG is to change the status to "obsolete", >> if an existing definition is found to be harmful. > > This solution won't work if the fix is based on adding stuff rather than > removing. Sure it will, just change the names. The new client can code to the new names. The old client is supposed to go away because the data model is harmful. > >> >> If a server update breaks old clients, the vendor is likely >> to hear about it from unhappy developers and operators. >> This is the sort of CLR that gets followed. > > Strict backward compatibility rules - for augments or new module > revisions - could be useful if the set of YANG modules were relatively > stable. However, this is not the current situation because everything is > in flux. Insisting on compatibility rules means that either That is no excuse -- design and implement first, publish later > > - we will end up with awkward modules having too loose constrains and > containing a lot of obsolete stuff, or > > - old modules will be abandoned and new ones started instead. > If the first pass is so bad that they need to be thrown out and started over, then so what? Mandatory nodes can be added in a different table that uses leafref indexing. There are options in YANG available besides augmenting an external module with mandatory nodes. > I am not sure either of these will make developers or operators any > happier in the long run. > > Lada > Andy >> >> If an external augment add mandatory nodes that break >> any exiting clients, then it will be visible to the vendor, >> and no amount of IETF wordsmithing is going to help >> the server developer who added the mandatory augment >> win that argument. >> >> >> >>> Lada >>> >> >> Andy >> >>>> >>>> :) >>>> >>>> >>>> /martin >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> netmod mailing list >>>> netmod@ietf.org >>>> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/netmod >>> >>> -- >>> Ladislav Lhotka, CZ.NIC Labs >>> PGP Key ID: E74E8C0C >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> netmod mailing list >>> netmod@ietf.org >>> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/netmod > > -- > Ladislav Lhotka, CZ.NIC Labs > PGP Key ID: E74E8C0C From nobody Mon Nov 24 07:51:32 2014 Return-Path: X-Original-To: netmod@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: netmod@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5B3941A6FD5 for ; Mon, 24 Nov 2014 07:51:31 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -0.661 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-0.661 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, HELO_EQ_CZ=0.445, HOST_EQ_CZ=0.904, T_RP_MATCHES_RCVD=-0.01] autolearn=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id qijnoeVYH1Jt for ; Mon, 24 Nov 2014 07:51:29 -0800 (PST) Received: from mail.nic.cz (mail.nic.cz [IPv6:2001:1488:800:400::400]) (using TLSv1 with cipher ADH-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id EEBB31A6F84 for ; Mon, 24 Nov 2014 07:51:28 -0800 (PST) Received: from [192.168.1.108] (unknown [195.113.220.254]) by mail.nic.cz (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 2FF6D14156A; Mon, 24 Nov 2014 16:51:27 +0100 (CET) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=simple/simple; d=nic.cz; s=default; t=1416844287; bh=cSTob5MRd2LGHS0UXvSh6KEj+YCD1YJX2cmwV4fFaSI=; h=Content-Type:Mime-Version:Subject:From:In-Reply-To:Date:Cc: Content-Transfer-Encoding:Message-Id:References:To; b=E6JAvTz+cAOkECjg+c+CCyGiks5QcRKhmJ+xUcj4tHKsp3ss/na5AZSB9cQo9bFRW 2mo5JC5XIgyQ77fcLjWa7hyTf4xx88drHOj/F9V5tJb+Prx1i0P+jPaHG9/vVBxphM ij4hHY9ZvAmvJU8gWTFOL+ktAvDMAOq5iNbYc44s= Content-Type: text/plain; charset=windows-1252 Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 7.3 \(1878.6\)) From: Ladislav Lhotka In-Reply-To: Date: Mon, 24 Nov 2014 16:51:26 +0100 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Message-Id: <6A467E56-5E4D-471E-A832-9B772314C9C5@nic.cz> References: <20141119.111154.217079456944529909.mbj@tail-f.com> <201411191659.sAJGxW6i089973@idle.juniper.net> <20141119.185244.71765139292686917.mbj@tail-f.com> To: Andy Bierman X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.1878.6) X-Virus-Scanned: clamav-milter 0.98.1 at mail X-Virus-Status: Clean Archived-At: http://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/netmod/nN9IMxL1C-7g_d8RmQKHPirAewE Cc: "netmod@ietf.org" Subject: Re: [netmod] Y26: mandatory nodes in augment X-BeenThere: netmod@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: NETMOD WG list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 24 Nov 2014 15:51:31 -0000 On 24 Nov 2014, at 15:49, Andy Bierman wrote: > On Mon, Nov 24, 2014 at 6:27 AM, Ladislav Lhotka = wrote: >> Andy Bierman writes: >>=20 >>> On Thu, Nov 20, 2014 at 1:27 AM, Ladislav Lhotka = wrote: >>>> Martin Bjorklund writes: >>>>=20 >>>>> Phil Shafer wrote: >>>>>> Martin Bjorklund writes: >>>>>>> But the current rule is overly restrictive. For example, if a = module >>>>>>> defines an identity, and at the same time an augment that is >>>>>>> conditional on that identity, it would be fine: >>>>>>>=20 >>>>>>> identity ethernet { >>>>>>> base if:interface-type; >>>>>>> } >>>>>>>=20 >>>>>>> augment /if:interfaces/if:interface { >>>>>>> when "if:type =3D 'ex:ethernet'"; >>>>>>> } >>>>>>=20 >>>>>> So since only one that implements this module would be >>>>>> able to add the nodes in this module. Any client not >>>>>> understanding this module would not be able to create >>>>>> these nodes, and so would not need to know what is >>>>>> mandatory. >>>>>>=20 >>>>>> Ok, I can see this, but how does one limit it to cases like this >>>>>> without opening clients to breakage? >>>>>=20 >>>>> Right, this is why we have: >>>>>=20 >>>>> The proposal is to add general guiding rules >>>>> that backwards compatibility needs to be maintained. Lets see >>>>> whether someone can write more concrete rules when mandatory = nodes >>>>> in augment are allowed. >>>>=20 >>>> I think it is in the interest of a module writer to avoid backward >>>> compatibility problem as much as possible. Maybe it needn't be = enforced >>>> in the language but just give appropriate guidelines in 6087bis. >>>>=20 >>>> Sometimes it might be desirable to break the backward = compatibility, >>>> e.g. if the old module has a security hole and a fix is provided = through >>>> an augment. >>>>=20 >>>=20 >>>=20 >>> The solution we have in YANG is to change the status to "obsolete", >>> if an existing definition is found to be harmful. >>=20 >> This solution won't work if the fix is based on adding stuff rather = than >> removing. >=20 > Sure it will, just change the names. > The new client can code to the new names. > The old client is supposed to go away because the data model is = harmful. This is not a good strategy for standard models, where readability = should be the priority. >=20 >=20 >>=20 >>>=20 >>> If a server update breaks old clients, the vendor is likely >>> to hear about it from unhappy developers and operators. >>> This is the sort of CLR that gets followed. >>=20 >> Strict backward compatibility rules - for augments or new module >> revisions - could be useful if the set of YANG modules were = relatively >> stable. However, this is not the current situation because everything = is >> in flux. Insisting on compatibility rules means that either >=20 > That is no excuse -- design and implement first, publish later It is not how the current modules are being developed, at least in the = IETF. >=20 >>=20 >> - we will end up with awkward modules having too loose constrains and >> containing a lot of obsolete stuff, or >>=20 >> - old modules will be abandoned and new ones started instead. >>=20 >=20 > If the first pass is so bad that they need to be thrown out > and started over, then so what? Mandatory nodes can be added > in a different table that uses leafref indexing. There are options > in YANG available besides augmenting an external module > with mandatory nodes. They needn=92t be so bad, they just might need to be updated in ways = that are incompatible with the YANG update rules. I understand that backward compatibility is an absolute priority for = software producers but quite often it leads to seriously sub-optimal = products that are full of cruft. Lada >=20 >=20 >> I am not sure either of these will make developers or operators any >> happier in the long run. >>=20 >> Lada >>=20 >=20 > Andy >=20 >>>=20 >>> If an external augment add mandatory nodes that break >>> any exiting clients, then it will be visible to the vendor, >>> and no amount of IETF wordsmithing is going to help >>> the server developer who added the mandatory augment >>> win that argument. >>>=20 >>>=20 >>>=20 >>>> Lada >>>>=20 >>>=20 >>> Andy >>>=20 >>>>>=20 >>>>> :) >>>>>=20 >>>>>=20 >>>>> /martin >>>>>=20 >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> netmod mailing list >>>>> netmod@ietf.org >>>>> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/netmod >>>>=20 >>>> -- >>>> Ladislav Lhotka, CZ.NIC Labs >>>> PGP Key ID: E74E8C0C >>>>=20 >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> netmod mailing list >>>> netmod@ietf.org >>>> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/netmod >>=20 >> -- >> Ladislav Lhotka, CZ.NIC Labs >> PGP Key ID: E74E8C0C -- Ladislav Lhotka, CZ.NIC Labs PGP Key ID: E74E8C0C From nobody Mon Nov 24 08:10:21 2014 Return-Path: X-Original-To: netmod@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: netmod@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id C1F681A7014 for ; Mon, 24 Nov 2014 08:10:11 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.979 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.979 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, FM_FORGED_GMAIL=0.622, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW=-0.7, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 5VDsFjEqzJ3x for ; Mon, 24 Nov 2014 08:10:08 -0800 (PST) Received: from mail-qc0-f174.google.com (mail-qc0-f174.google.com [209.85.216.174]) (using TLSv1 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-RC4-SHA (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id C89041A6FD1 for ; Mon, 24 Nov 2014 08:10:02 -0800 (PST) Received: by mail-qc0-f174.google.com with SMTP id c9so6977622qcz.33 for ; Mon, 24 Nov 2014 08:10:02 -0800 (PST) X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20130820; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:date:message-id:subject:from:to :content-type; bh=2FO12IzJ1Le3mz2WcJ76vnKDVQLfUCQX4bD62iFSBpE=; b=mCJRqvlwJxxzA0Q0fPxqVBvr9SLaasoXgYSiLw3O/6ILi3Iw5KT2okefgt55XepLvk lCUqY39er/gw6MRV9gGe2AW3aUKUw3w/4cqSm3mBOCKZMD5NSeGdX4gEE4HNFaxfrY8p waxDAK0vgSV0Vfs4+GL142YG6RJb6DTgaxqfZiMhnwO7RyzYTOehOkvrg5A2qUkCyXOS XAexEz2yNtKhys9NownBD8M1I2ru0cJO3DXEDKNb4kJwi70Yk++rZNkW8kkQ8ePy6R/b pcrDQJW2C7d9neVOHLsS2Hx3bSAkea4U2II+CXfyWjUDdlVKfxMklBUzxVCEi8V6q2Mw VQBw== X-Gm-Message-State: ALoCoQnaYv6BSsrOf/Wnjoz899ybaYNRfLSoC1DjxPb2nK4VJagvGApuRPFhk+a/TT4ee+LdJNF4 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Received: by 10.224.37.67 with SMTP id w3mr30790229qad.88.1416845401931; Mon, 24 Nov 2014 08:10:01 -0800 (PST) Received: by 10.140.37.52 with HTTP; Mon, 24 Nov 2014 08:10:01 -0800 (PST) Date: Mon, 24 Nov 2014 08:10:01 -0800 Message-ID: From: Andy Bierman To: "netmod@ietf.org" Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Archived-At: http://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/netmod/jFG7-TKeujxVpqAhphUgMZuRvmw Subject: [netmod] YANG 1.0 and 1.1 integration issues X-BeenThere: netmod@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: NETMOD WG list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 24 Nov 2014 16:10:12 -0000 Hi, Sorry if this is already covered, but I am wondering if and how YANG 1.0 modules can co-exist with YANG 1.1 modules. 1) The YANG 1.0 clients are expected to continue using YANG 1.0 modules and ignore all YANG 1.1 modules. Is a YANG 1.0 client supposed to have a complete API such that all interactions between 1.0 data models and 1.1 data models can be ignored? 2) It is clearly an error if a 1.0 module imports a 1.1 module, or a 1.0 submodule includes a 1.1 submodule, but what about 1.1 using 1.0? Does the server enforce 1.0 rules for the imported modules and included submodules (within the 1.1 context), or does the compiler promote them and use 1.1 rules for the 1.0 modules/submodules? 3) What happens if a 1.1 module augments definitions in a 1.0 module? Is this allowed? This will look like unknown anyxml to 1.0 clients, since they are unaware of the unadvertised 1.1 modules (and cannot read YANG 1.1 anyway). Is this the integration plan for augments? 4) In order to convert 1 YANG 1.0 module to 1.1, all the modules that import it have to be updated as well, then all the modules that import those modules, etc. Even if this is done, conversion will break any 1.0 client that used that module. How is the IETF (or anybody with YANG 1.0 modules) supposed to build on the existing module library and switch to YANG 1.1? Seems like there will need to be a flag day where all tools, clients, servers, and modules are converted at once. Andy From nobody Tue Nov 25 01:45:13 2014 Return-Path: X-Original-To: netmod@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: netmod@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6F66B1A0025 for ; Tue, 25 Nov 2014 01:45:12 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.9 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.9 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9] autolearn=ham Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id Ft_Y_8aoUSxI for ; Tue, 25 Nov 2014 01:45:10 -0800 (PST) Received: from trail.lhotka.name (trail.lhotka.name [77.48.224.143]) (using TLSv1.1 with cipher AECDH-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id A81BD1A0076 for ; Tue, 25 Nov 2014 01:45:09 -0800 (PST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by trail.lhotka.name (Postfix) with ESMTP id 742625406C0; Tue, 25 Nov 2014 10:45:07 +0100 (CET) Received: from trail.lhotka.name ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (trail.lhotka.name [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 7Lb4IoQsjvMv; Tue, 25 Nov 2014 10:45:02 +0100 (CET) Received: from localhost (unknown [195.113.220.254]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by trail.lhotka.name (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 6B3DC54047B; Tue, 25 Nov 2014 10:45:02 +0100 (CET) From: Ladislav Lhotka To: Andy Bierman , "netmod\@ietf.org" In-Reply-To: References: User-Agent: Notmuch/0.18.1 (http://notmuchmail.org) Emacs/24.4.51.2 (x86_64-apple-darwin14.0.0) Date: Tue, 25 Nov 2014 10:45:01 +0100 Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Archived-At: http://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/netmod/dvndNE4bLVtvM9sV7xwIuc8KHOg Subject: Re: [netmod] YANG 1.0 and 1.1 integration issues X-BeenThere: netmod@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: NETMOD WG list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 25 Nov 2014 09:45:12 -0000 Andy Bierman writes: > Hi, > > Sorry if this is already covered, but I am wondering if and how > YANG 1.0 modules can co-exist with YANG 1.1 modules. > > 1) The YANG 1.0 clients are expected to continue using YANG 1.0 > modules and ignore all YANG 1.1 modules. Is a YANG 1.0 client > supposed to have a complete API such that all interactions > between 1.0 data models and 1.1 data models can be ignored? > > 2) It is clearly an error if a 1.0 module imports a 1.1 module, or a 1.0 > submodule includes a 1.1 submodule, but what about 1.1 using 1.0? > Does the server enforce 1.0 rules for the imported modules and > included submodules (within the 1.1 context), or does the compiler > promote them and use 1.1 rules for the 1.0 modules/submodules? For using imported typedefs and groupings this should be OK, or do we change semantics somewhere so that 1.0 stuff can be interpreted differently in the 1.1 context? > > 3) What happens if a 1.1 module augments definitions in a 1.0 module? > Is this allowed? This will look like unknown anyxml to 1.0 clients, > since they are unaware of the unadvertised 1.1 modules (and cannot > read YANG 1.1 anyway). Is this the integration plan for augments? I think this kind of augmenting makes the augmented module necessarily 1.1. > > 4) In order to convert 1 YANG 1.0 module to 1.1, all the modules > that import it have to be updated as well, then all the modules that > import those modules, etc. Even if this is done, conversion will With the existing rules, a module that has been upgraded to 1.1 will probably have to use a different name, so such imports won't be possible anyway. > break any 1.0 client that used that module. How is the IETF > (or anybody with YANG 1.0 modules) supposed to build on the > existing module library and switch to YANG 1.1? Seems like there > will need to be a flag day where all tools, clients, servers, and modules > are converted at once. We had this discussion before - IMO it is an illusion to expect that a client will be able to cherry-pick from the advertised modules, ignore bumped revisions etc. With all the dependencies that YANG allows (imports, augments, must/when expressions) a data model must be taken as a logical whole. That's why I also think it is a mistake to have the backward compatibility rules in the definition of the language. We are building a new complex technology and gaining experience along the way, so we can hardly hope to get everything right at the first attempt. I think this won't be such a big problem in practice though. In a concrete network, an upgrade of (some) servers will often require an upgrade of clients, but the latter is generally much easier than the former. Lada > > > Andy > > _______________________________________________ > netmod mailing list > netmod@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/netmod -- Ladislav Lhotka, CZ.NIC Labs PGP Key ID: E74E8C0C From nobody Tue Nov 25 05:03:52 2014 Return-Path: X-Original-To: netmod@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: netmod@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6056B1A0334; Tue, 25 Nov 2014 05:03:44 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.9 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.9 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9] autolearn=ham Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id ofyYAi9p7d_h; Tue, 25 Nov 2014 05:03:42 -0800 (PST) Received: from trail.lhotka.name (trail.lhotka.name [77.48.224.143]) (using TLSv1.1 with cipher AECDH-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 5A1061A0275; Tue, 25 Nov 2014 05:03:42 -0800 (PST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by trail.lhotka.name (Postfix) with ESMTP id 058875406C0; Tue, 25 Nov 2014 14:03:40 +0100 (CET) Received: from trail.lhotka.name ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (trail.lhotka.name [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id zYft-SeRMNsn; Tue, 25 Nov 2014 14:03:34 +0100 (CET) Received: from localhost (unknown [195.113.220.254]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by trail.lhotka.name (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 9B9615401F1; Tue, 25 Nov 2014 14:03:34 +0100 (CET) From: Ladislav Lhotka To: rtg-yang-coord@ietf.org User-Agent: Notmuch/0.18.1 (http://notmuchmail.org) Emacs/24.4.51.2 (x86_64-apple-darwin14.0.0) Date: Tue, 25 Nov 2014 14:03:33 +0100 Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Archived-At: http://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/netmod/V5jtZGpdWiX1gvTXbS_Fy0LYs08 Cc: netmod@ietf.org, rtgwg@ietf.org Subject: [netmod] ietf-routing module issues X-BeenThere: netmod@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: NETMOD WG list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 25 Nov 2014 13:03:44 -0000 Hi, below is a list of open issues regarding YANG modules contained in draft-ietf-netmod-routing-cfg-16 that I think need further discussion. I will start a new thread for each in the mailing list rtg-yang-coord@ietf.org (no cross-posting). Therefore, I'd like to ask folks in NETMOD and Routing Area WGs who are interested in these discussions to subscribe to that list. Thanks, Lada ***** :R01: route filters ***** :R02: complex next-hops ***** :R03: assignment of interfaces to routing instances ***** :R04: configuration and state data for IPv6 RA ***** :R05: numeric IDs of state data entries -- Ladislav Lhotka, CZ.NIC Labs PGP Key ID: E74E8C0C From nobody Tue Nov 25 06:47:46 2014 Return-Path: X-Original-To: netmod@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: netmod@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3DA8F1A1AF0 for ; Tue, 25 Nov 2014 06:47:42 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.979 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.979 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, FM_FORGED_GMAIL=0.622, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW=-0.7, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id kBlV5UKIH8Zn for ; Tue, 25 Nov 2014 06:47:38 -0800 (PST) Received: from mail-qg0-f47.google.com (mail-qg0-f47.google.com [209.85.192.47]) (using TLSv1 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-RC4-SHA (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 0DE301A1AC1 for ; Tue, 25 Nov 2014 06:47:20 -0800 (PST) Received: by mail-qg0-f47.google.com with SMTP id z60so494909qgd.34 for ; Tue, 25 Nov 2014 06:47:19 -0800 (PST) X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20130820; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:in-reply-to:references:date :message-id:subject:from:to:cc:content-type :content-transfer-encoding; bh=P6yxX6W48//xKzSM8SDfVq18RDuYvGWEwL2w3MjGByY=; b=YsoQAydhtjHU3fVvAd+6ulLxu7Qu0YzDqciK4vUv9FH8lTkAGZUX/q6BQwWhqmTpWB /+vPe2iQ0ZeyoMpbuiD6don0H+kLwwBUj+jBkJRMTa+zGfwe/gImfiAse3SSScIgyoUZ q7awRgPVfk48EkHMh/gy6IuYXTZm1qd7RqlhirKCg/LfXXObB0CPa3fK4pHhdV1pVzpe mFFxCrM/9niwdr7guY0wiO/aHST2BdtfX1OBgyUBX+/cBai0VOdjQq6CEwbP9l1LjdAU cdALhnulakWJk5e/cx3MT78uQeCGZu+WhH7kxd2rbqNJYP8WWmMXL7/h/JQQwCf/D5Qh 87sg== X-Gm-Message-State: ALoCoQmZ7VSa5bhnpy3lWe1/Ys3g4gQCXKuLjRM8iC9r7DvTSUeraIQQ0zjwcwYIU52AA4eS185g MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Received: by 10.140.81.6 with SMTP id e6mr2680614qgd.90.1416926839241; Tue, 25 Nov 2014 06:47:19 -0800 (PST) Received: by 10.140.37.52 with HTTP; Tue, 25 Nov 2014 06:47:19 -0800 (PST) In-Reply-To: <6A467E56-5E4D-471E-A832-9B772314C9C5@nic.cz> References: <20141119.111154.217079456944529909.mbj@tail-f.com> <201411191659.sAJGxW6i089973@idle.juniper.net> <20141119.185244.71765139292686917.mbj@tail-f.com> <6A467E56-5E4D-471E-A832-9B772314C9C5@nic.cz> Date: Tue, 25 Nov 2014 06:47:19 -0800 Message-ID: From: Andy Bierman To: Ladislav Lhotka Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Archived-At: http://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/netmod/1blGCBD9DFfRIz3mcQN7NRBNhIg Cc: "netmod@ietf.org" Subject: Re: [netmod] Y26: mandatory nodes in augment X-BeenThere: netmod@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: NETMOD WG list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 25 Nov 2014 14:47:42 -0000 Hi, If we do not follow the update rules, we just add to the churn. When a client app is written, the set of modules at the time are available for use. Modules written or modified in the future are not available for use. This should seem rather obvious, and point out why future modules cannot break existing contracts. The apps cannot be rewritten and deployed constantly or instantly. Andy On Mon, Nov 24, 2014 at 7:51 AM, Ladislav Lhotka wrote: > > On 24 Nov 2014, at 15:49, Andy Bierman wrote: > >> On Mon, Nov 24, 2014 at 6:27 AM, Ladislav Lhotka wrote: >>> Andy Bierman writes: >>> >>>> On Thu, Nov 20, 2014 at 1:27 AM, Ladislav Lhotka wrote= : >>>>> Martin Bjorklund writes: >>>>> >>>>>> Phil Shafer wrote: >>>>>>> Martin Bjorklund writes: >>>>>>>> But the current rule is overly restrictive. For example, if a mod= ule >>>>>>>> defines an identity, and at the same time an augment that is >>>>>>>> conditional on that identity, it would be fine: >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> identity ethernet { >>>>>>>> base if:interface-type; >>>>>>>> } >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> augment /if:interfaces/if:interface { >>>>>>>> when "if:type =3D 'ex:ethernet'"; >>>>>>>> } >>>>>>> >>>>>>> So since only one that implements this module would be >>>>>>> able to add the nodes in this module. Any client not >>>>>>> understanding this module would not be able to create >>>>>>> these nodes, and so would not need to know what is >>>>>>> mandatory. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Ok, I can see this, but how does one limit it to cases like this >>>>>>> without opening clients to breakage? >>>>>> >>>>>> Right, this is why we have: >>>>>> >>>>>> The proposal is to add general guiding rules >>>>>> that backwards compatibility needs to be maintained. Lets see >>>>>> whether someone can write more concrete rules when mandatory nodes >>>>>> in augment are allowed. >>>>> >>>>> I think it is in the interest of a module writer to avoid backward >>>>> compatibility problem as much as possible. Maybe it needn't be enforc= ed >>>>> in the language but just give appropriate guidelines in 6087bis. >>>>> >>>>> Sometimes it might be desirable to break the backward compatibility, >>>>> e.g. if the old module has a security hole and a fix is provided thro= ugh >>>>> an augment. >>>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> The solution we have in YANG is to change the status to "obsolete", >>>> if an existing definition is found to be harmful. >>> >>> This solution won't work if the fix is based on adding stuff rather tha= n >>> removing. >> >> Sure it will, just change the names. >> The new client can code to the new names. >> The old client is supposed to go away because the data model is harmful. > > This is not a good strategy for standard models, where readability should= be the priority. > >> >> >>> >>>> >>>> If a server update breaks old clients, the vendor is likely >>>> to hear about it from unhappy developers and operators. >>>> This is the sort of CLR that gets followed. >>> >>> Strict backward compatibility rules - for augments or new module >>> revisions - could be useful if the set of YANG modules were relatively >>> stable. However, this is not the current situation because everything i= s >>> in flux. Insisting on compatibility rules means that either >> >> That is no excuse -- design and implement first, publish later > > It is not how the current modules are being developed, at least in the IE= TF. > >> >>> >>> - we will end up with awkward modules having too loose constrains and >>> containing a lot of obsolete stuff, or >>> >>> - old modules will be abandoned and new ones started instead. >>> >> >> If the first pass is so bad that they need to be thrown out >> and started over, then so what? Mandatory nodes can be added >> in a different table that uses leafref indexing. There are options >> in YANG available besides augmenting an external module >> with mandatory nodes. > > They needn=E2=80=99t be so bad, they just might need to be updated in way= s that are incompatible with the YANG update rules. > > I understand that backward compatibility is an absolute priority for soft= ware producers but quite often it leads to seriously sub-optimal products t= hat are full of cruft. > > Lada > >> >> >>> I am not sure either of these will make developers or operators any >>> happier in the long run. >>> >>> Lada >>> >> >> Andy >> >>>> >>>> If an external augment add mandatory nodes that break >>>> any exiting clients, then it will be visible to the vendor, >>>> and no amount of IETF wordsmithing is going to help >>>> the server developer who added the mandatory augment >>>> win that argument. >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>>> Lada >>>>> >>>> >>>> Andy >>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> :) >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> /martin >>>>>> >>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>> netmod mailing list >>>>>> netmod@ietf.org >>>>>> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/netmod >>>>> >>>>> -- >>>>> Ladislav Lhotka, CZ.NIC Labs >>>>> PGP Key ID: E74E8C0C >>>>> >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> netmod mailing list >>>>> netmod@ietf.org >>>>> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/netmod >>> >>> -- >>> Ladislav Lhotka, CZ.NIC Labs >>> PGP Key ID: E74E8C0C > > -- > Ladislav Lhotka, CZ.NIC Labs > PGP Key ID: E74E8C0C > > > > From nobody Tue Nov 25 13:31:19 2014 Return-Path: X-Original-To: netmod@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: netmod@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7C3381A8902 for ; Tue, 25 Nov 2014 13:29:41 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.979 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.979 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, FM_FORGED_GMAIL=0.622, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW=-0.7, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id YawYtNKNPmXs for ; Tue, 25 Nov 2014 13:29:39 -0800 (PST) Received: from mail-qa0-f46.google.com (mail-qa0-f46.google.com [209.85.216.46]) (using TLSv1 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-RC4-SHA (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 15CC31A88F7 for ; Tue, 25 Nov 2014 13:29:39 -0800 (PST) Received: by mail-qa0-f46.google.com with SMTP id u7so1039966qaz.19 for ; Tue, 25 Nov 2014 13:29:38 -0800 (PST) X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20130820; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:in-reply-to:references:date :message-id:subject:from:to:cc:content-type; bh=vGCvP5+yxOTDy8rHO2SZ4lCz046i0vvJNVlTyt0sKy4=; b=L5/rHIwbwbTtExR/GZRN4Qm8q2D9qaaMb92AV31MBj9zhmFzKv3j3s5M4u6OvVbeKB TL2J8snaFxPuFhx1wJ8UOmnF8NrF085VGtcTQ+yhNLAzHxldBoQ8mlV1TNb5C7EJfaCO P1d/bWopBLQClEx2sGsNtdnsU89nfurT1ulv5mQy8fRL/M4HwBwAEyfy05JkwEaRI674 lhYX2Ax9EoQNn8JUOD8OptF7jDfq0IQmIW4hqEwY8C64F0Wf1Ftax9g6dczAPFUTJCJQ n/R+E4ZEfsMZ2jGhW4JiqVuog9/jZpBd1MLiriCYBqiDcHDxkbH7v2rQmcGKL+MY0qlE elrA== X-Gm-Message-State: ALoCoQnUTOljvHW5sEBHMQsv/vnksEUnMN/CVM/JDWU/5C6NgL1POR7VlQH738+RofAHJ/Tg/GQR MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Received: by 10.224.131.4 with SMTP id v4mr39908762qas.99.1416950978306; Tue, 25 Nov 2014 13:29:38 -0800 (PST) Received: by 10.140.37.52 with HTTP; Tue, 25 Nov 2014 13:29:38 -0800 (PST) In-Reply-To: References: Date: Tue, 25 Nov 2014 13:29:38 -0800 Message-ID: From: Andy Bierman To: Ladislav Lhotka Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Archived-At: http://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/netmod/bqRg8Bu114sSbie9jniaq-YUmVQ Cc: "netmod@ietf.org" Subject: Re: [netmod] YANG 1.0 and 1.1 integration issues X-BeenThere: netmod@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: NETMOD WG list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 25 Nov 2014 21:29:41 -0000 On Tue, Nov 25, 2014 at 1:45 AM, Ladislav Lhotka wrote: > Andy Bierman writes: > >> Hi, >> >> Sorry if this is already covered, but I am wondering if and how >> YANG 1.0 modules can co-exist with YANG 1.1 modules. >> >> 1) The YANG 1.0 clients are expected to continue using YANG 1.0 >> modules and ignore all YANG 1.1 modules. Is a YANG 1.0 client >> supposed to have a complete API such that all interactions >> between 1.0 data models and 1.1 data models can be ignored? >> >> 2) It is clearly an error if a 1.0 module imports a 1.1 module, or a 1.0 >> submodule includes a 1.1 submodule, but what about 1.1 using 1.0? >> Does the server enforce 1.0 rules for the imported modules and >> included submodules (within the 1.1 context), or does the compiler >> promote them and use 1.1 rules for the 1.0 modules/submodules? > > For using imported typedefs and groupings this should be OK, or do we > change semantics somewhere so that 1.0 stuff can be interpreted > differently in the 1.1 context? > This is why it is important that a 1.0 module compile within a 1.1 context and not only be valid but maintain the same syntax and semantics. >> >> 3) What happens if a 1.1 module augments definitions in a 1.0 module? >> Is this allowed? This will look like unknown anyxml to 1.0 clients, >> since they are unaware of the unadvertised 1.1 modules (and cannot >> read YANG 1.1 anyway). Is this the integration plan for augments? > > I think this kind of augmenting makes the augmented module necessarily 1.1. > But the implementation of those modules is 1.0. See comment above about maintaining same syntax and semantics. >> >> 4) In order to convert 1 YANG 1.0 module to 1.1, all the modules >> that import it have to be updated as well, then all the modules that >> import those modules, etc. Even if this is done, conversion will > > With the existing rules, a module that has been upgraded to 1.1 will > probably have to use a different name, so such imports won't be possible > anyway. So you envision that there will be foo-1.0 and foo-1.1 versions advertised by the server, with disjoint objects in separate namespaces? So they would diverge (or else why bother making a 1.1 version?) and the server will end up with 2 implementations of each module to maintain on each platform? That sounds expensive, but it could work. > >> break any 1.0 client that used that module. How is the IETF >> (or anybody with YANG 1.0 modules) supposed to build on the >> existing module library and switch to YANG 1.1? Seems like there >> will need to be a flag day where all tools, clients, servers, and modules >> are converted at once. > > We had this discussion before - IMO it is an illusion to expect that a > client will be able to cherry-pick from the advertised modules, ignore > bumped revisions etc. With all the dependencies that YANG allows > (imports, augments, must/when expressions) a data model must be taken as > a logical whole. That's why I also think it is a mistake to have the > backward compatibility rules in the definition of the language. We are > building a new complex technology and gaining experience along the way, > so we can hardly hope to get everything right at the first attempt. > > I think this won't be such a big problem in practice though. In a > concrete network, an upgrade of (some) servers will often require an > upgrade of clients, but the latter is generally much easier than the > former. Standards often have stricter change rules to follow than non-standard specifications. Also, mixing DML versions is different than updating modules so they do not break old clients. > > Lada > >> Andy >> >> Andy >> >> _______________________________________________ >> netmod mailing list >> netmod@ietf.org >> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/netmod > > -- > Ladislav Lhotka, CZ.NIC Labs > PGP Key ID: E74E8C0C From nobody Tue Nov 25 13:36:48 2014 Return-Path: X-Original-To: netmod@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: netmod@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id ED4DB1A891F for ; Tue, 25 Nov 2014 13:35:40 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.911 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.911 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, SPF_PASS=-0.001, T_RP_MATCHES_RCVD=-0.01] autolearn=ham Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id WKIW9ms0Muj5 for ; Tue, 25 Nov 2014 13:35:39 -0800 (PST) Received: from mail.tail-f.com (mail.tail-f.com [83.241.162.140]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 197F01A88FC for ; Tue, 25 Nov 2014 13:35:39 -0800 (PST) Received: from localhost (unknown [193.13.112.215]) by mail.tail-f.com (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id DAEC71280B12; Tue, 25 Nov 2014 22:35:37 +0100 (CET) Date: Tue, 25 Nov 2014 22:36:46 +0100 (CET) Message-Id: <20141125.223646.1046596288677980352.mbj@tail-f.com> To: lhotka@nic.cz From: Martin Bjorklund In-Reply-To: References: X-Mailer: Mew version 6.5 on Emacs 24.3 / Mule 6.0 (HANACHIRUSATO) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: Text/Plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Archived-At: http://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/netmod/FGDjpFujQVqb_T6BlAEdJg62WT4 Cc: netmod@ietf.org Subject: Re: [netmod] YANG 1.0 and 1.1 integration issues X-BeenThere: netmod@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: NETMOD WG list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 25 Nov 2014 21:35:41 -0000 Ladislav Lhotka wrote: > Andy Bierman writes: > > > Hi, > > > > Sorry if this is already covered, but I am wondering if and how > > YANG 1.0 modules can co-exist with YANG 1.1 modules. > > > > 1) The YANG 1.0 clients are expected to continue using YANG 1.0 > > modules and ignore all YANG 1.1 modules. Is a YANG 1.0 client > > supposed to have a complete API such that all interactions > > between 1.0 data models and 1.1 data models can be ignored? Yes. > > 2) It is clearly an error if a 1.0 module imports a 1.1 module, or a 1.0 > > submodule includes a 1.1 submodule, but what about 1.1 using 1.0? > > Does the server enforce 1.0 rules for the imported modules and > > included submodules (within the 1.1 context), or does the compiler > > promote them and use 1.1 rules for the 1.0 modules/submodules? The 1.0 modules have 1.0 rules and 1.1 modules have 1.1 rules. > For using imported typedefs and groupings this should be OK, or do we > change semantics somewhere so that 1.0 stuff can be interpreted > differently in the 1.1 context? > > > > > 3) What happens if a 1.1 module augments definitions in a 1.0 module? > > Is this allowed? Yes. > > This will look like unknown anyxml to 1.0 clients, > > since they are unaware of the unadvertised 1.1 modules (and cannot > > read YANG 1.1 anyway). Is this the integration plan for augments? Yes - this is not different from an augment by an 1.0 module that is unknown to the client. > I think this kind of augmenting makes the augmented module necessarily 1.1. Disagree! > > 4) In order to convert 1 YANG 1.0 module to 1.1, all the modules > > that import it have to be updated as well, then all the modules that > > import those modules, etc. Even if this is done, conversion will > > With the existing rules, a module that has been upgraded to 1.1 will > probably have to use a different name, so such imports won't be possible > anyway. Disagree! > > break any 1.0 client that used that module. How is the IETF > > (or anybody with YANG 1.0 modules) supposed to build on the > > existing module library and switch to YANG 1.1? Seems like there > > will need to be a flag day where all tools, clients, servers, and modules > > are converted at once. No, but it does make sense to upgrade all such modules in an implementation in a single upgrade. But unless we have other reasons for doing so, it does not seem necessary to update ay ietf-yang-types just in order to make it 1.1. /martin From nobody Tue Nov 25 19:17:13 2014 Return-Path: X-Original-To: netmod@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: netmod@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 158671A8792; Tue, 25 Nov 2014 19:17:00 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -99.054 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-99.054 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DOS_OUTLOOK_TO_MX=2.845, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, USER_IN_WHITELIST=-100] autolearn=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id bCuqWbuJYS2R; Tue, 25 Nov 2014 19:16:58 -0800 (PST) Received: from hickoryhill-consulting.com (hhc-web3.hickoryhill-consulting.com [64.9.205.143]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9EF831A1A14; Tue, 25 Nov 2014 19:16:57 -0800 (PST) X-Default-Received-SPF: pass (skip=loggedin (res=PASS)) x-ip-name=64.112.195.202; From: "Susan Hares" To: , "NETCONF" , Date: Tue, 25 Nov 2014 22:16:39 -0500 Message-ID: <007f01d00927$6c225bf0$446713d0$@ndzh.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0080_01D008FD.834D3E50" X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook 14.0 Thread-Index: AdAJIa+dZSiX90itRUONHuaL/EmoUA== Content-Language: en-us X-Authenticated-User: skh@ndzh.com Archived-At: http://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/netmod/XI4MCpu7z44qXwwFQcKc2Ub4cOM Cc: edc.ietf@gmail.com Subject: [netmod] Interims for I2RS X-BeenThere: netmod@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: NETMOD WG list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 26 Nov 2014 03:17:00 -0000 This is a multipart message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0080_01D008FD.834D3E50 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit The I2RS WG will be holding 3+ virtual interims before IETF 92 on the following dates: 12/11/14, 12/16/14, and 1/8/15. The topics for the interims will be the following: 12/11/14: Use Case Document, RIB Info Model and the RIB Yang model 12/16/14: Protocol Requirements for I2RS, and I2RS topology documents. 1/8/15: I2RS Topology Yang modules The I2RS WG LC for Use Case Document and RIB Info Model will run from (12/1 to 12/15). I2RS yang modules document are being prepared RIB-Info, L3 Topologies, L2 Topologies, service topologies, and generic topologies by design teams. If you are interested in a yang model design team, please contact the I2RS chairs (shares@ndzh.com, jhass@pfrc.org) to be connected to these design teams. A design team is being also formed to refine the I2RS protocol refinements for the I2RS protocol. We encourage who have implemented features similar to the I2RS to volunteer to guide this work. If you are interested in this design team, please contact the I2RS chairs by (12/2/14). Existing drafts are listed below Doodle polls will be sent to the I2RS mail list to select the time of day for the interims. Sue Hares and Jeff Haas Documents Existing I2RS http://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-i2rs-usecase-reqs-summary/ http://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-haas-i2rs-netmod-netconf-requirements/ Existing Info Models and Yang models http://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-i2rs-rib-info-model/ http://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-hares-i2rs-info-model-service-topo/ I2RS Yang models http://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-clemm-i2rs-yang-l3-topo/ http://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-dong-i2rs-l2-network-topology/ http://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-clemm-i2rs-yang-network-topo/ Yang modules http://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-netmod-routing-cfg/ Policy that may be related to modules http://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-hareskini-i2rs-pbr-info-model/ http://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-hares-i2rs-bnp-info-model/ ------=_NextPart_000_0080_01D008FD.834D3E50 Content-Type: text/html; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

 

The I2RS WG = will be holding 3+ virtual interims before IETF 92 on the following = dates: 12/11/14, 12/16/14, and 1/8/15.  The topics for the interims = will be the following:

 

12/11/14: = Use Case Document,  RIB Info Model and the RIB Yang = model

12/16/14: Protocol Requirements = for I2RS, and I2RS topology documents.

1/8/15:     I2RS Topology Yang = modules

 

The I2RS WG LC for Use Case Document and RIB Info = Model will run from (12/1 to 12/15).   I2RS yang modules = document are being prepared RIB-Info, L3 Topologies, L2 Topologies, =  service topologies, and generic topologies by design teams. =   If you are interested in a yang model design team, =  please contact the I2RS chairs (shares@ndzh.com, jhass@pfrc.org) to be connected to = these design teams.

 

A design = team is being also formed to refine the I2RS protocol refinements for = the I2RS protocol.  We encourage who have implemented features = similar to the I2RS to volunteer to guide this work.  If you are = interested in this design team, please contact the I2RS chairs by = (12/2/14).  Existing drafts are listed below

 

Doodle polls = will be sent to the I2RS mail list to select the time of day for the = interims.

 

Sue Hares and Jeff Haas

 

Documents =

Existing I2RS

http://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-i2rs-usecase-reqs-summar= y/

http://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-haas-i2rs-netmod-netco= nf-requirements/

 

Existing = Info Models and Yang models

= http://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-i2rs-rib-info-model/<= /o:p>

http://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-hares-i2rs-info-model-ser= vice-topo/

 

I2RS Yang = models

h= ttp://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-clemm-i2rs-yang-l3-topo/

http://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-dong-i2rs-l2-network-topology/=

http://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-clemm-i2rs-yang-network-topo/

 

Yang modules

h= ttp://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-netmod-routing-cfg/

 

 

Policy that = may be related to modules

http://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-hareskini-i2rs-pbr-info-model/=

http://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-hares-i2rs-bnp-info-model/

 

 

------=_NextPart_000_0080_01D008FD.834D3E50-- From nobody Tue Nov 25 23:40:57 2014 Return-Path: X-Original-To: netmod@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: netmod@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9B2291A0018 for ; Tue, 25 Nov 2014 23:40:53 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.9 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.9 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9] autolearn=ham Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id s0xQbdw0CUyc for ; Tue, 25 Nov 2014 23:40:51 -0800 (PST) Received: from trail.lhotka.name (trail.lhotka.name [77.48.224.143]) (using TLSv1.1 with cipher AECDH-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 0DF861A1B93 for ; Tue, 25 Nov 2014 23:40:51 -0800 (PST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by trail.lhotka.name (Postfix) with ESMTP id EBDB454060F; Wed, 26 Nov 2014 08:40:48 +0100 (CET) Received: from trail.lhotka.name ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (trail.lhotka.name [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 0ntrLsBaOCQn; Wed, 26 Nov 2014 08:40:44 +0100 (CET) Received: from localhost (unknown [195.113.220.254]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by trail.lhotka.name (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 27BB6540466; Wed, 26 Nov 2014 08:40:43 +0100 (CET) From: Ladislav Lhotka To: Martin Bjorklund In-Reply-To: <20141125.223646.1046596288677980352.mbj@tail-f.com> References: <20141125.223646.1046596288677980352.mbj@tail-f.com> User-Agent: Notmuch/0.18.1 (http://notmuchmail.org) Emacs/24.4.51.2 (x86_64-apple-darwin14.0.0) Date: Wed, 26 Nov 2014 08:40:46 +0100 Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Archived-At: http://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/netmod/swmGH37CIBFeCiO-Ce6TZL7MaOg Cc: netmod@ietf.org Subject: Re: [netmod] YANG 1.0 and 1.1 integration issues X-BeenThere: netmod@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: NETMOD WG list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 26 Nov 2014 07:40:53 -0000 Martin Bjorklund writes: ... >> > 3) What happens if a 1.1 module augments definitions in a 1.0 module? >> > Is this allowed? > > Yes. > >> > This will look like unknown anyxml to 1.0 clients, >> > since they are unaware of the unadvertised 1.1 modules (and cannot >> > read YANG 1.1 anyway). Is this the integration plan for augments? > > Yes - this is not different from an augment by an 1.0 module that is > unknown to the client. > >> I think this kind of augmenting makes the augmented module necessarily 1.1. > > Disagree! Let's say a 1.1 client X configures nodes that are defined in the augmenting module and follow 1.1 rules. Client Y that is only 1.0 receives this new unknown stuff, or the new stuff appear in its candidate. What is client Y supposed to do? > >> > 4) In order to convert 1 YANG 1.0 module to 1.1, all the modules >> > that import it have to be updated as well, then all the modules that >> > import those modules, etc. Even if this is done, conversion will >> >> With the existing rules, a module that has been upgraded to 1.1 will >> probably have to use a different name, so such imports won't be possible >> anyway. > > Disagree! In the routing module I use some identity comparisons that we know are broken. So in the 1.1 version of the module I'd like to use the new XPath function. Do you think we can continue using the old module name? Lada > >> > break any 1.0 client that used that module. How is the IETF >> > (or anybody with YANG 1.0 modules) supposed to build on the >> > existing module library and switch to YANG 1.1? Seems like there >> > will need to be a flag day where all tools, clients, servers, and modules >> > are converted at once. > > No, but it does make sense to upgrade all such modules in an > implementation in a single upgrade. But unless we have other reasons > for doing so, it does not seem necessary to update ay ietf-yang-types > just in order to make it 1.1. > > > /martin -- Ladislav Lhotka, CZ.NIC Labs PGP Key ID: E74E8C0C From nobody Tue Nov 25 23:46:34 2014 Return-Path: X-Original-To: netmod@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: netmod@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id C45381A001E for ; Tue, 25 Nov 2014 23:46:31 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.9 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.9 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9] autolearn=ham Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 8JS6HSxZX0ix for ; Tue, 25 Nov 2014 23:46:30 -0800 (PST) Received: from trail.lhotka.name (trail.lhotka.name [77.48.224.143]) (using TLSv1.1 with cipher AECDH-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 9D3C41A000E for ; Tue, 25 Nov 2014 23:46:29 -0800 (PST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by trail.lhotka.name (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1743F54060F; Wed, 26 Nov 2014 08:46:28 +0100 (CET) Received: from trail.lhotka.name ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (trail.lhotka.name [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id f+NNxjbeiGPV; Wed, 26 Nov 2014 08:46:23 +0100 (CET) Received: from localhost (unknown [195.113.220.254]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by trail.lhotka.name (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 6019D540466; Wed, 26 Nov 2014 08:46:23 +0100 (CET) From: Ladislav Lhotka To: Andy Bierman In-Reply-To: References: User-Agent: Notmuch/0.18.1 (http://notmuchmail.org) Emacs/24.4.51.2 (x86_64-apple-darwin14.0.0) Date: Wed, 26 Nov 2014 08:46:26 +0100 Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Archived-At: http://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/netmod/zifVauHt8hkbGgu5xF8i2NfkwYQ Cc: "netmod@ietf.org" Subject: Re: [netmod] YANG 1.0 and 1.1 integration issues X-BeenThere: netmod@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: NETMOD WG list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 26 Nov 2014 07:46:31 -0000 Andy Bierman writes: > On Tue, Nov 25, 2014 at 1:45 AM, Ladislav Lhotka wrote: >> Andy Bierman writes: >> >>> Hi, >>> >>> Sorry if this is already covered, but I am wondering if and how >>> YANG 1.0 modules can co-exist with YANG 1.1 modules. >>> >>> 1) The YANG 1.0 clients are expected to continue using YANG 1.0 >>> modules and ignore all YANG 1.1 modules. Is a YANG 1.0 client >>> supposed to have a complete API such that all interactions >>> between 1.0 data models and 1.1 data models can be ignored? >>> >>> 2) It is clearly an error if a 1.0 module imports a 1.1 module, or a 1.0 >>> submodule includes a 1.1 submodule, but what about 1.1 using 1.0? >>> Does the server enforce 1.0 rules for the imported modules and >>> included submodules (within the 1.1 context), or does the compiler >>> promote them and use 1.1 rules for the 1.0 modules/submodules? >> >> For using imported typedefs and groupings this should be OK, or do we >> change semantics somewhere so that 1.0 stuff can be interpreted >> differently in the 1.1 context? >> > > This is why it is important that a 1.0 module compile within a 1.1 context > and not only be valid but maintain the same syntax and semantics. > > >>> >>> 3) What happens if a 1.1 module augments definitions in a 1.0 module? >>> Is this allowed? This will look like unknown anyxml to 1.0 clients, >>> since they are unaware of the unadvertised 1.1 modules (and cannot >>> read YANG 1.1 anyway). Is this the integration plan for augments? >> >> I think this kind of augmenting makes the augmented module necessarily 1.1. >> > > > But the implementation of those modules is 1.0. > See comment above about maintaining same syntax and semantics. > > >>> >>> 4) In order to convert 1 YANG 1.0 module to 1.1, all the modules >>> that import it have to be updated as well, then all the modules that >>> import those modules, etc. Even if this is done, conversion will >> >> With the existing rules, a module that has been upgraded to 1.1 will >> probably have to use a different name, so such imports won't be possible >> anyway. > > > So you envision that there will be foo-1.0 and foo-1.1 versions advertised > by the server, with disjoint objects in separate namespaces? > So they would diverge (or else why bother making a 1.1 version?) > and the server will end up with 2 implementations of each module > to maintain on each platform? No, what I envision is that the server will only advertise foo-1.1 version after upgrading, so the old client won't work anyway. Lada > > That sounds expensive, but it could work. > > >> >>> break any 1.0 client that used that module. How is the IETF >>> (or anybody with YANG 1.0 modules) supposed to build on the >>> existing module library and switch to YANG 1.1? Seems like there >>> will need to be a flag day where all tools, clients, servers, and modules >>> are converted at once. >> >> We had this discussion before - IMO it is an illusion to expect that a >> client will be able to cherry-pick from the advertised modules, ignore >> bumped revisions etc. With all the dependencies that YANG allows >> (imports, augments, must/when expressions) a data model must be taken as >> a logical whole. That's why I also think it is a mistake to have the >> backward compatibility rules in the definition of the language. We are >> building a new complex technology and gaining experience along the way, >> so we can hardly hope to get everything right at the first attempt. >> >> I think this won't be such a big problem in practice though. In a >> concrete network, an upgrade of (some) servers will often require an >> upgrade of clients, but the latter is generally much easier than the >> former. > > Standards often have stricter change rules to follow than non-standard > specifications. Also, mixing DML versions is different than updating > modules so they do not break old clients. > > >> >> Lada >> >>> > > > Andy > > > > >>> >>> Andy >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> netmod mailing list >>> netmod@ietf.org >>> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/netmod >> >> -- >> Ladislav Lhotka, CZ.NIC Labs >> PGP Key ID: E74E8C0C -- Ladislav Lhotka, CZ.NIC Labs PGP Key ID: E74E8C0C From nobody Tue Nov 25 23:53:20 2014 Return-Path: X-Original-To: netmod@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: netmod@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 76E8C1A001E for ; Tue, 25 Nov 2014 23:53:17 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.911 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.911 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, SPF_PASS=-0.001, T_RP_MATCHES_RCVD=-0.01] autolearn=ham Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 1ohet-BLWqiG for ; Tue, 25 Nov 2014 23:53:15 -0800 (PST) Received: from mail.tail-f.com (mail.tail-f.com [83.241.162.140]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9D6061A0018 for ; Tue, 25 Nov 2014 23:53:15 -0800 (PST) Received: from localhost (unknown [193.13.112.215]) by mail.tail-f.com (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 30D361280098; Wed, 26 Nov 2014 08:53:14 +0100 (CET) Date: Wed, 26 Nov 2014 08:53:13 +0100 (CET) Message-Id: <20141126.085313.1630843955824614645.mbj@tail-f.com> To: lhotka@nic.cz From: Martin Bjorklund In-Reply-To: References: <20141125.223646.1046596288677980352.mbj@tail-f.com> X-Mailer: Mew version 6.5 on Emacs 24.3 / Mule 6.0 (HANACHIRUSATO) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: Text/Plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Archived-At: http://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/netmod/f3g3XapfGND4bW4IZmTItLGRA6E Cc: netmod@ietf.org Subject: Re: [netmod] YANG 1.0 and 1.1 integration issues X-BeenThere: netmod@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: NETMOD WG list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 26 Nov 2014 07:53:17 -0000 Ladislav Lhotka wrote: > Martin Bjorklund writes: > ... > > >> > 3) What happens if a 1.1 module augments definitions in a 1.0 module? > >> > Is this allowed? > > > > Yes. > > > >> > This will look like unknown anyxml to 1.0 clients, > >> > since they are unaware of the unadvertised 1.1 modules (and cannot > >> > read YANG 1.1 anyway). Is this the integration plan for augments? > > > > Yes - this is not different from an augment by an 1.0 module that is > > unknown to the client. > > > >> I think this kind of augmenting makes the augmented module necessarily 1.1. > > > > Disagree! > > Let's say a 1.1 client X configures nodes that are defined in the > augmenting module and follow 1.1 rules. Client Y that is only 1.0 > receives this new unknown stuff, or the new stuff appear in its > candidate. What is client Y supposed to do? The same as if it receives nodes from an otherwise unknown namespace (what this is depends on the client app; maybe ignore, maybe store but do not interpret). > >> > 4) In order to convert 1 YANG 1.0 module to 1.1, all the modules > >> > that import it have to be updated as well, then all the modules that > >> > import those modules, etc. Even if this is done, conversion will > >> > >> With the existing rules, a module that has been upgraded to 1.1 will > >> probably have to use a different name, so such imports won't be possible > >> anyway. > > > > Disagree! > > In the routing module I use some identity comparisons that we know are > broken. So in the 1.1 version of the module I'd like to use the new > XPath function. Do you think we can continue using the old module name? Yes - it is in a new revision of the module. /martin From nobody Wed Nov 26 00:22:33 2014 Return-Path: X-Original-To: netmod@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: netmod@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id CC6681A6FBF for ; Wed, 26 Nov 2014 00:22:29 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -0.361 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-0.361 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, HELO_EQ_CZ=0.445, HOST_EQ_CZ=0.904, MIME_8BIT_HEADER=0.3, T_RP_MATCHES_RCVD=-0.01] autolearn=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id cCzRJRbnqPQ6 for ; Wed, 26 Nov 2014 00:22:28 -0800 (PST) Received: from mail.nic.cz (mail.nic.cz [IPv6:2001:1488:800:400::400]) (using TLSv1 with cipher ADH-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 13A921A6F21 for ; Wed, 26 Nov 2014 00:22:28 -0800 (PST) Received: from [192.168.1.108] (unknown [195.113.220.254]) by mail.nic.cz (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 594A113F6D7; Wed, 26 Nov 2014 09:22:26 +0100 (CET) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=simple/simple; d=nic.cz; s=default; t=1416990146; bh=UFqZQzqWrzhUIn3R1xo54hHlNi1vFql4+kYZmOSnKSM=; h=Content-Type:Mime-Version:Subject:From:In-Reply-To:Date:Cc: Content-Transfer-Encoding:Message-Id:References:To; b=EdFP7tINtiLWplsPa4FZH0xZkm9SSgrocox+vImMfzHL2P2Z345yzan7glDRPHmTd D0V9B7BRdChROd/raQtmr13FtdYn/IF6KFrj21q3YBS/GZszHujkOaqx0w8EI9yOsd nYG5G1v9a2Lw4O6cybrtIXjouzREu6/X109jW72w= Content-Type: text/plain; charset=windows-1252 Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 7.3 \(1878.6\)) From: Ladislav Lhotka In-Reply-To: <20141126.085313.1630843955824614645.mbj@tail-f.com> Date: Wed, 26 Nov 2014 09:22:29 +0100 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Message-Id: References: <20141125.223646.1046596288677980352.mbj@tail-f.com> <20141126.085313.1630843955824614645.mbj@tail-f.com> To: =?windows-1252?Q?Martin_Bj=F6rklund?= X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.1878.6) X-Virus-Scanned: clamav-milter 0.98.1 at mail X-Virus-Status: Clean Archived-At: http://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/netmod/KUmK5mdqsZ2sAiVDtyRqb-Wwvis Cc: netmod@ietf.org Subject: Re: [netmod] YANG 1.0 and 1.1 integration issues X-BeenThere: netmod@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: NETMOD WG list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 26 Nov 2014 08:22:30 -0000 On 26 Nov 2014, at 08:53, Martin Bjorklund wrote: > Ladislav Lhotka wrote: >> Martin Bjorklund writes: >> ... >>=20 >>>>> 3) What happens if a 1.1 module augments definitions in a 1.0 = module? >>>>> Is this allowed? >>>=20 >>> Yes. >>>=20 >>>>> This will look like unknown anyxml to 1.0 clients, >>>>> since they are unaware of the unadvertised 1.1 modules (and cannot >>>>> read YANG 1.1 anyway). Is this the integration plan for augments? >>>=20 >>> Yes - this is not different from an augment by an 1.0 module that is >>> unknown to the client. >>>=20 >>>> I think this kind of augmenting makes the augmented module = necessarily 1.1. >>>=20 >>> Disagree! >>=20 >> Let's say a 1.1 client X configures nodes that are defined in the >> augmenting module and follow 1.1 rules. Client Y that is only 1.0 >> receives this new unknown stuff, or the new stuff appear in its >> candidate. What is client Y supposed to do? >=20 > The same as if it receives nodes from an otherwise unknown namespace > (what this is depends on the client app; maybe ignore, maybe store but > do not interpret). I don=92t see how client Y could possibly edit and then commit such an = candidate without knowing the rules. That would be extremely brittle. = You are right - it is not much different from the current situation but = that=92s actually my point about cherry-picking advertised modules. Another example: a module that a client chooses to ignore may define a = new identity that the server is allowed to use as an identityref value = of an =93old=94 leaf. This again could/should break the client. =20 >=20 >>>>> 4) In order to convert 1 YANG 1.0 module to 1.1, all the modules >>>>> that import it have to be updated as well, then all the modules = that >>>>> import those modules, etc. Even if this is done, conversion will >>>>=20 >>>> With the existing rules, a module that has been upgraded to 1.1 = will >>>> probably have to use a different name, so such imports won't be = possible >>>> anyway. >>>=20 >>> Disagree! >>=20 >> In the routing module I use some identity comparisons that we know = are >> broken. So in the 1.1 version of the module I'd like to use the new >> XPath function. Do you think we can continue using the old module = name? >=20 > Yes - it is in a new revision of the module. How could a 1.0 client possibly work with XPath expressions it doesn=92t = understand? What if the new revision contains lists with optional keys, = or anydata statements? Such changes are much more disruptive than those that are forbidden in = sec. 10. I actually agree with you, it *should* be a new revision of the same = module because otherwise the set of modules would soon become a terrible = mess. However, old clients then simply can=92t expect to be able to use = a new revision exactly as an old one. Lada >=20 >=20 > /martin -- Ladislav Lhotka, CZ.NIC Labs PGP Key ID: E74E8C0C From nobody Wed Nov 26 00:35:11 2014 Return-Path: X-Original-To: netmod@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: netmod@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id A330E1A0063 for ; Wed, 26 Nov 2014 00:35:09 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.911 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.911 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, SPF_PASS=-0.001, T_RP_MATCHES_RCVD=-0.01] autolearn=ham Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id Sk1H_hxNonmK for ; Wed, 26 Nov 2014 00:35:08 -0800 (PST) Received: from mail.tail-f.com (mail.tail-f.com [83.241.162.140]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id DEBCC1A0049 for ; Wed, 26 Nov 2014 00:35:07 -0800 (PST) Received: from localhost (unknown [193.13.112.215]) by mail.tail-f.com (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 00A481280996; Wed, 26 Nov 2014 09:35:06 +0100 (CET) Date: Wed, 26 Nov 2014 09:35:07 +0100 (CET) Message-Id: <20141126.093507.1662941382218735837.mbj@tail-f.com> To: lhotka@nic.cz From: Martin Bjorklund In-Reply-To: References: <20141126.085313.1630843955824614645.mbj@tail-f.com> X-Mailer: Mew version 6.5 on Emacs 24.3 / Mule 6.0 (HANACHIRUSATO) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: Text/Plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 Archived-At: http://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/netmod/dzdKrXXeEafTxnoOMGwE3hx8X9s Cc: netmod@ietf.org Subject: Re: [netmod] YANG 1.0 and 1.1 integration issues X-BeenThere: netmod@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: NETMOD WG list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 26 Nov 2014 08:35:09 -0000 TGFkaXNsYXYgTGhvdGthIDxsaG90a2FAbmljLmN6PiB3cm90ZToNCj4gDQo+IE9uIDI2IE5vdiAy 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-0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -0.661 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-0.661 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, HELO_EQ_CZ=0.445, HOST_EQ_CZ=0.904, T_RP_MATCHES_RCVD=-0.01] autolearn=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id BmHKiqvGGieD for ; Wed, 26 Nov 2014 01:03:25 -0800 (PST) Received: from mail.nic.cz (mail.nic.cz [IPv6:2001:1488:800:400::400]) (using TLSv1 with cipher ADH-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id D901B1A0063 for ; Wed, 26 Nov 2014 01:03:07 -0800 (PST) Received: from [192.168.1.108] (unknown [195.113.220.254]) by mail.nic.cz (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id AC2EF13F6D7 for ; Wed, 26 Nov 2014 10:03:04 +0100 (CET) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=simple/simple; d=nic.cz; s=default; t=1416992584; bh=sDe5ktbya8UGEjDW68T1eqqf9CUj0JGQT9p9PXPfr4o=; h=Content-Type:Mime-Version:Subject:From:In-Reply-To:Date: Content-Transfer-Encoding:Message-Id:References:To; b=GCKRliC8KtXklIgE6rG9ATLF3s9NND40pYJeMCg8YEGx8GY2xfXS4yBaNE1oFDm8v Po+owpBsfoJ6FTEEs/R76m7sm+GaO1WBTv79YyLiMxuK4VLT6gNStcjj4l9ciHNJ9H y3ONE2m2DoRAqQzRKipKmLRWZi7B71m4btzZWQNs= Content-Type: text/plain; charset=windows-1252 Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 7.3 \(1878.6\)) From: Ladislav Lhotka In-Reply-To: <20141126.093507.1662941382218735837.mbj@tail-f.com> Date: Wed, 26 Nov 2014 10:03:07 +0100 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Message-Id: References: <20141126.085313.1630843955824614645.mbj@tail-f.com> <20141126.093507.1662941382218735837.mbj@tail-f.com> To: NETMOD Working Group X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.1878.6) X-Virus-Scanned: clamav-milter 0.98.1 at mail X-Virus-Status: Clean Archived-At: http://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/netmod/vILqESYlbUARmmdOSpPbPVs3gxM Subject: Re: [netmod] YANG 1.0 and 1.1 integration issues X-BeenThere: netmod@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: NETMOD WG list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 26 Nov 2014 09:03:31 -0000 On 26 Nov 2014, at 09:35, Martin Bjorklund wrote: > Ladislav Lhotka wrote: >>=20 >> On 26 Nov 2014, at 08:53, Martin Bjorklund wrote: >>=20 >>> Ladislav Lhotka wrote: >>>> Martin Bjorklund writes: >>>> ... >>>>=20 >>>>>>> 3) What happens if a 1.1 module augments definitions in a 1.0 = module? >>>>>>> Is this allowed? >>>>>=20 >>>>> Yes. >>>>>=20 >>>>>>> This will look like unknown anyxml to 1.0 clients, >>>>>>> since they are unaware of the unadvertised 1.1 modules (and = cannot >>>>>>> read YANG 1.1 anyway). Is this the integration plan for = augments? >>>>>=20 >>>>> Yes - this is not different from an augment by an 1.0 module that = is >>>>> unknown to the client. >>>>>=20 >>>>>> I think this kind of augmenting makes the augmented module = necessarily >>>>>> 1.1. >>>>>=20 >>>>> Disagree! >>>>=20 >>>> Let's say a 1.1 client X configures nodes that are defined in the >>>> augmenting module and follow 1.1 rules. Client Y that is only 1.0 >>>> receives this new unknown stuff, or the new stuff appear in its >>>> candidate. What is client Y supposed to do? >>>=20 >>> The same as if it receives nodes from an otherwise unknown namespace >>> (what this is depends on the client app; maybe ignore, maybe store = but >>> do not interpret). >>=20 >> I don=92t see how client Y could possibly edit and then commit such = an >> candidate without knowing the rules. That would be extremely >> brittle. You are right - it is not much different from the current >> situation but that=92s actually my point about cherry-picking = advertised >> modules. >=20 > This all depend on what the client does. At the very extreme, the > client might just invoke in order to store a backup. > Should this break just b/c one module is YANG 1.1? >=20 > As another example, maybe the client is a simple script that sets the > hostname/dns-server/ntp-server on a server from ietf-system. Should > this break just b/c some other module is YANG 1.1? It needn=92t, but the client has to know what it is doing. If an = augmented leaf is a leafref that refers to that = hostname/dns-server/ntp-server, then the configuration will of course be = rejected if the simple script changes them.=20 Section 10 and other old-client-compatibility rules in RFC 6020 give a = false impression that a client can *always* safely ignore stuff it = doesn=92t understand, new revisions of modules etc., which is dangerous. On the other hand, the compatibility rules severely limit the options = for iterative development of modules. So IMO it would be better to move the compatibility rules (in the SHOULD = form) to 6087bis. Much of the conformance discussion would then also = become moot. Lada >=20 > Sure, there might be clients that need to fully understand everything, > and that should be fine. >=20 >> Another example: a module that a client chooses to ignore may define = a >> new identity that the server is allowed to use as an identityref = value >> of an =93old=94 leaf. This again could/should break the client. >>=20 >>>=20 >>>>>>> 4) In order to convert 1 YANG 1.0 module to 1.1, all the modules >>>>>>> that import it have to be updated as well, then all the modules = that >>>>>>> import those modules, etc. Even if this is done, conversion = will >>>>>>=20 >>>>>> With the existing rules, a module that has been upgraded to 1.1 = will >>>>>> probably have to use a different name, so such imports won't be >>>>>> possible >>>>>> anyway. >>>>>=20 >>>>> Disagree! >>>>=20 >>>> In the routing module I use some identity comparisons that we know = are >>>> broken. So in the 1.1 version of the module I'd like to use the new >>>> XPath function. Do you think we can continue using the old module >>>> name? >>>=20 >>> Yes - it is in a new revision of the module. >>=20 >> How could a 1.0 client possibly work with XPath expressions it = doesn=92t >> understand? What if the new revision contains lists with optional >> keys, or anydata statements? >>=20 >> Such changes are much more disruptive than those that are forbidden = in >> sec. 10. >>=20 >> I actually agree with you, it *should* be a new revision of the same >> module because otherwise the set of modules would soon become a >> terrible mess. However, old clients then simply can=92t expect to be >> able to use a new revision exactly as an old one. >=20 >=20 >=20 > /martin -- Ladislav Lhotka, CZ.NIC Labs PGP Key ID: E74E8C0C From nobody Wed Nov 26 06:49:56 2014 Return-Path: X-Original-To: netmod@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: netmod@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2E1491A0145 for ; Wed, 26 Nov 2014 06:49:55 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.979 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.979 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, FM_FORGED_GMAIL=0.622, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW=-0.7, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id sGnvWYkkb0Jl for ; Wed, 26 Nov 2014 06:49:53 -0800 (PST) Received: from mail-qg0-f42.google.com (mail-qg0-f42.google.com [209.85.192.42]) (using TLSv1 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-RC4-SHA (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id D08321A0140 for ; Wed, 26 Nov 2014 06:49:52 -0800 (PST) Received: by mail-qg0-f42.google.com with SMTP id z107so2160887qgd.29 for ; Wed, 26 Nov 2014 06:49:52 -0800 (PST) X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20130820; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:in-reply-to:references:date :message-id:subject:from:to:cc:content-type :content-transfer-encoding; bh=ZJ3p7ZyaYVdFTrMLklyf7IDIHZhsvC3MiOe+LCVQogg=; b=LgRJdDpSfe/ad23kMalNtZ91qFIjWBWJIiG8HW1Ymv8cGWHSxp9V2gK00CaZVv4vQH ZbScB5AuMKyizup4jEgtZyUxp5uPgaBL7NvNhAyRgiyS05BCeUdLHJ7zOww2aMGDk0Qu qIKpRSpLaxk0Ls3/cO3wnBKO6JpH4PTRlokfuDHmQnWG7HFMJs1UHwm1p7K9mPZv3L2M 1em7hmxfcA8G3EuznENQLIGMmQnL82igcrqujTjUeBPxS/DcedebvtQeS7lNJGcJ4SPf y64HQ8guF/QIYB85eDU4bY2Btlg9X39N2o1lIDsBc/sgv5hetCmxV8vquXyE5jEHXM0L iA4w== X-Gm-Message-State: ALoCoQkyQEiGTBpCmEsTyt5GWhh9xzMZMx5mRSFHRsbeeB9JgBMiZx99SYZWCFbIJ7og5qPJ3sT+ MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Received: by 10.140.109.102 with SMTP id k93mr46197288qgf.83.1417013392095; Wed, 26 Nov 2014 06:49:52 -0800 (PST) Received: by 10.140.37.52 with HTTP; Wed, 26 Nov 2014 06:49:51 -0800 (PST) In-Reply-To: References: <20141126.085313.1630843955824614645.mbj@tail-f.com> <20141126.093507.1662941382218735837.mbj@tail-f.com> Date: Wed, 26 Nov 2014 06:49:51 -0800 Message-ID: From: Andy Bierman To: Ladislav Lhotka Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Archived-At: http://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/netmod/5Vu2dOXF81cjbfk1yPoBpCCOBxs Cc: NETMOD Working Group Subject: Re: [netmod] YANG 1.0 and 1.1 integration issues X-BeenThere: netmod@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: NETMOD WG list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 26 Nov 2014 14:49:55 -0000 Hi, I am not sure you understand how difficult it is to change data modeling languages and still maintain the existing code. It only happened once for SNMP -- very early on the totally awful SMIv1 was replaced by SMIv2. SMIv1 was so bad, it was quickly replaced by SMIv2. All attempts to create SMIv3 failed spectacularly. YANG 1.0 is far from awful. The incremental features added to 1.1 are nice-to-have. Almost all of them have work-arounds and the ones that don't are relatively rare (if-feature expressions, XPath functions, etc) If YANG 1.1 cannot integrate with YANG 1.0, it will never get deployed. Existing 1.0 modules need to continue to work. A massive rewrite of all existing NETCONF/YANG code seems rather unrealistic. If the plan is to require a flag day upgrade, then YANG 1.1 will never fly. Might as well call it YANG 2.0 if that is the plan. Andy On Wed, Nov 26, 2014 at 1:03 AM, Ladislav Lhotka wrote: > > On 26 Nov 2014, at 09:35, Martin Bjorklund wrote: > >> Ladislav Lhotka wrote: >>> >>> On 26 Nov 2014, at 08:53, Martin Bjorklund wrote: >>> >>>> Ladislav Lhotka wrote: >>>>> Martin Bjorklund writes: >>>>> ... >>>>> >>>>>>>> 3) What happens if a 1.1 module augments definitions in a 1.0 modu= le? >>>>>>>> Is this allowed? >>>>>> >>>>>> Yes. >>>>>> >>>>>>>> This will look like unknown anyxml to 1.0 clients, >>>>>>>> since they are unaware of the unadvertised 1.1 modules (and cannot >>>>>>>> read YANG 1.1 anyway). Is this the integration plan for augments? >>>>>> >>>>>> Yes - this is not different from an augment by an 1.0 module that is >>>>>> unknown to the client. >>>>>> >>>>>>> I think this kind of augmenting makes the augmented module necessar= ily >>>>>>> 1.1. >>>>>> >>>>>> Disagree! >>>>> >>>>> Let's say a 1.1 client X configures nodes that are defined in the >>>>> augmenting module and follow 1.1 rules. Client Y that is only 1.0 >>>>> receives this new unknown stuff, or the new stuff appear in its >>>>> candidate. What is client Y supposed to do? >>>> >>>> The same as if it receives nodes from an otherwise unknown namespace >>>> (what this is depends on the client app; maybe ignore, maybe store but >>>> do not interpret). >>> >>> I don=E2=80=99t see how client Y could possibly edit and then commit su= ch an >>> candidate without knowing the rules. That would be extremely >>> brittle. You are right - it is not much different from the current >>> situation but that=E2=80=99s actually my point about cherry-picking adv= ertised >>> modules. >> >> This all depend on what the client does. At the very extreme, the >> client might just invoke in order to store a backup. >> Should this break just b/c one module is YANG 1.1? >> >> As another example, maybe the client is a simple script that sets the >> hostname/dns-server/ntp-server on a server from ietf-system. Should >> this break just b/c some other module is YANG 1.1? > > It needn=E2=80=99t, but the client has to know what it is doing. If an au= gmented leaf is a leafref that refers to that hostname/dns-server/ntp-serve= r, then the configuration will of course be rejected if the simple script c= hanges them. > > Section 10 and other old-client-compatibility rules in RFC 6020 give a fa= lse impression that a client can *always* safely ignore stuff it doesn=E2= =80=99t understand, new revisions of modules etc., which is dangerous. > > On the other hand, the compatibility rules severely limit the options for= iterative development of modules. > > So IMO it would be better to move the compatibility rules (in the SHOULD = form) to 6087bis. Much of the conformance discussion would then also become= moot. > > Lada > >> >> Sure, there might be clients that need to fully understand everything, >> and that should be fine. >> >>> Another example: a module that a client chooses to ignore may define a >>> new identity that the server is allowed to use as an identityref value >>> of an =E2=80=9Cold=E2=80=9D leaf. This again could/should break the cli= ent. >>> >>>> >>>>>>>> 4) In order to convert 1 YANG 1.0 module to 1.1, all the modules >>>>>>>> that import it have to be updated as well, then all the modules th= at >>>>>>>> import those modules, etc. Even if this is done, conversion will >>>>>>> >>>>>>> With the existing rules, a module that has been upgraded to 1.1 wil= l >>>>>>> probably have to use a different name, so such imports won't be >>>>>>> possible >>>>>>> anyway. >>>>>> >>>>>> Disagree! >>>>> >>>>> In the routing module I use some identity comparisons that we know ar= e >>>>> broken. So in the 1.1 version of the module I'd like to use the new >>>>> XPath function. Do you think we can continue using the old module >>>>> name? >>>> >>>> Yes - it is in a new revision of the module. >>> >>> How could a 1.0 client possibly work with XPath expressions it doesn=E2= =80=99t >>> understand? What if the new revision contains lists with optional >>> keys, or anydata statements? >>> >>> Such changes are much more disruptive than those that are forbidden in >>> sec. 10. >>> >>> I actually agree with you, it *should* be a new revision of the same >>> module because otherwise the set of modules would soon become a >>> terrible mess. However, old clients then simply can=E2=80=99t expect to= be >>> able to use a new revision exactly as an old one. >> >> >> >> /martin > > -- > Ladislav Lhotka, CZ.NIC Labs > PGP Key ID: E74E8C0C > > > > > _______________________________________________ > netmod mailing list > netmod@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/netmod From nobody Wed Nov 26 07:29:06 2014 Return-Path: X-Original-To: netmod@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: netmod@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id EB6A11A0263 for ; Wed, 26 Nov 2014 07:29:04 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.979 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.979 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, FM_FORGED_GMAIL=0.622, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW=-0.7, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id wYQ0Q-ffzGyI for ; Wed, 26 Nov 2014 07:29:03 -0800 (PST) Received: from mail-qg0-f50.google.com (mail-qg0-f50.google.com [209.85.192.50]) (using TLSv1 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-RC4-SHA (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 1AB1A1A0252 for ; Wed, 26 Nov 2014 07:28:58 -0800 (PST) Received: by mail-qg0-f50.google.com with SMTP id i50so2154377qgf.37 for ; Wed, 26 Nov 2014 07:28:57 -0800 (PST) X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20130820; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:in-reply-to:references:date :message-id:subject:from:to:cc:content-type; bh=on126St4ZbyfC+kXIP7V+lXsEDUoSskhNFua9qq0XW8=; b=CwLVSrk3u3najJYCZdEc8qBdUyTkw2V9R1+K0RKsYaPkl3B2fYsqVNs1hkGeWCHX2K z4cc/QtE5yqTRJhZHttaCXVxPELGxz/uO3KYxkJCPH21EAhmrk0EAq1UuBAKlpJ09URp JBnBRZKYTfnE6otCghnjsFQDVYG0imWCRQFOO1AgS2NOwWW5oA/4So72HEdxDZZYXlaq BxuYX4HKRUtQWpG/lA99CaQgTiVZkpd9ziA/keq4bCuI6kjetkiQbbEiET4Z1bcLEqPJ KW98zb3KtiqwgO2Qn1WQDS5Zhttih6G/VW6PcPBPtYvaZ679/3PAsDfrft2GUeff4Ayt ol8g== X-Gm-Message-State: ALoCoQkBGUp9RNIFz15V3MM5CSd0Lj0TJ/E2jlpOqtN/p9VrDLCrpqL7Mp0xuWQWx3YPvAN+Ko18 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Received: by 10.229.212.66 with SMTP id gr2mr45764824qcb.8.1417015737141; Wed, 26 Nov 2014 07:28:57 -0800 (PST) Received: by 10.140.37.52 with HTTP; Wed, 26 Nov 2014 07:28:57 -0800 (PST) In-Reply-To: References: Date: Wed, 26 Nov 2014 07:28:57 -0800 Message-ID: From: Andy Bierman To: Ladislav Lhotka Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Archived-At: http://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/netmod/nScFB_g72bAusrbkar0Vyq2gieA Cc: "netmod@ietf.org" Subject: Re: [netmod] YANG 1.0 and 1.1 integration issues X-BeenThere: netmod@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: NETMOD WG list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 26 Nov 2014 15:29:05 -0000 On Tue, Nov 25, 2014 at 11:46 PM, Ladislav Lhotka wrote: > Andy Bierman writes: > ... >> >> So you envision that there will be foo-1.0 and foo-1.1 versions advertised >> by the server, with disjoint objects in separate namespaces? >> So they would diverge (or else why bother making a 1.1 version?) >> and the server will end up with 2 implementations of each module >> to maintain on each platform? > > No, what I envision is that the server will only advertise foo-1.1 > version after upgrading, so the old client won't work anyway. > This is too difficult for commercial deployments, especially by the time the YANG 1.1 RFC is published, and then updates to standard modules are published. >From the charter: - All compliant YANG 1.0 modules must be accepted as compliant YANG 1.1 modules. This bullet shows how little the WG thought about YANG 1.0 co-existence. At least we understand that no YANG 1.1 modules will be visible or usable by any YANG 1.0 tools. But does this bullet assume (like you) that all 1.0 modules will go away because they were all converted to 1.1? > Lada > Andy From nobody Wed Nov 26 07:47:30 2014 Return-Path: X-Original-To: netmod@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: netmod@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 556141A0267 for ; Wed, 26 Nov 2014 07:47:28 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.56 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.56 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, HELO_EQ_DE=0.35, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, T_RP_MATCHES_RCVD=-0.01] autolearn=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id YmgyFYn-YKCv for ; Wed, 26 Nov 2014 07:47:26 -0800 (PST) Received: from atlas3.jacobs-university.de (atlas3.jacobs-university.de [212.201.44.18]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher AECDH-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 41DC71A020B for ; Wed, 26 Nov 2014 07:47:26 -0800 (PST) Received: from localhost (demetrius5.irc-it.jacobs-university.de [10.70.0.222]) by atlas3.jacobs-university.de (Postfix) with ESMTP id BA7BB10C4; Wed, 26 Nov 2014 16:47:24 +0100 (CET) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at jacobs-university.de Received: from atlas3.jacobs-university.de ([10.70.0.220]) by localhost (demetrius5.jacobs-university.de [10.70.0.222]) (amavisd-new, port 10030) with ESMTP id Tt8AtfxZqR3R; Wed, 26 Nov 2014 16:47:09 +0100 (CET) Received: from hermes.jacobs-university.de (hermes.jacobs-university.de [212.201.44.23]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (Client CN "hermes.jacobs-university.de", Issuer "Jacobs University CA - G01" (verified OK)) by atlas3.jacobs-university.de (Postfix) with ESMTPS; Wed, 26 Nov 2014 16:47:24 +0100 (CET) Received: from localhost (demetrius3.jacobs-university.de [212.201.44.48]) by hermes.jacobs-university.de (Postfix) with ESMTP id BFA1520017; Wed, 26 Nov 2014 16:47:23 +0100 (CET) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at jacobs-university.de Received: from hermes.jacobs-university.de ([212.201.44.23]) by localhost (demetrius3.jacobs-university.de [212.201.44.32]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id xmvGQr1PNzF7; Wed, 26 Nov 2014 16:47:22 +0100 (CET) Received: from elstar.local (elstar.jacobs.jacobs-university.de [10.50.231.133]) by hermes.jacobs-university.de (Postfix) with ESMTP id C292E2002C; Wed, 26 Nov 2014 16:47:21 +0100 (CET) Received: by elstar.local (Postfix, from userid 501) id 7D5342FD1023; Wed, 26 Nov 2014 16:47:20 +0100 (CET) Date: Wed, 26 Nov 2014 16:47:20 +0100 From: Juergen Schoenwaelder To: Andy Bierman Message-ID: <20141126154719.GA3633@elstar.local> Mail-Followup-To: Andy Bierman , Ladislav Lhotka , "netmod@ietf.org" References: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: User-Agent: Mutt/1.4.2.3i Archived-At: http://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/netmod/qIhin7TmB8HanJUhgQpEKO__f7w Cc: "netmod@ietf.org" Subject: Re: [netmod] YANG 1.0 and 1.1 integration issues X-BeenThere: netmod@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list Reply-To: Juergen Schoenwaelder List-Id: NETMOD WG list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 26 Nov 2014 15:47:28 -0000 On Wed, Nov 26, 2014 at 07:28:57AM -0800, Andy Bierman wrote: > > - All compliant YANG 1.0 modules must be accepted as compliant YANG > 1.1 modules. > > This bullet shows how little the WG thought about YANG 1.0 co-existence. > At least we understand that no YANG 1.1 modules will be visible or usable > by any YANG 1.0 tools. But does this bullet assume (like you) that > all 1.0 modules will go away because they were all converted to 1.1? > The bullet says that all YANG 1.0 modules remain valid with YANG 1.1 and thus there is no need to say upgrade ietf-inet-types.yang. As usual, there may be corner cases where YANG 1.1 clarifies things that were unclear in YANG 1.0 and hence for these cases the WG needs to make judgement calls. But the general direction is clear. I consider it likely that clients that take full advantage of YANG (data model driven clients) will pick up YANG 1.1 quickly. If this assumption turns out to be correct, then I do not really see any problems. If servers pick up YANG 1.1 faster than data model driven clients, well then these servers will simply push clients to pick up YANG 1.1 fast as well. And since clients are generally easier to upgrade, I am not worried about this either. But yes, we need to be careful with adoting solutions for issues that may cause difficulties on the upgrade path. But we need to consider this in the context of each issue separately (and I think we did in the past several times). If there are specific solutions where people think this makes an upgrade difficult, please post the concerns with a suitable subject line identifying the issue. /js -- Juergen Schoenwaelder Jacobs University Bremen gGmbH Phone: +49 421 200 3587 Campus Ring 1, 28759 Bremen, Germany Fax: +49 421 200 3103 From nobody Wed Nov 26 11:25:20 2014 Return-Path: X-Original-To: netmod@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: netmod@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4C0D51A038E for ; Wed, 26 Nov 2014 11:25:17 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.9 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.9 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9] autolearn=ham Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id OeAKR-U8p2Tq for ; Wed, 26 Nov 2014 11:25:14 -0800 (PST) Received: from trail.lhotka.name (trail.lhotka.name [77.48.224.143]) (using TLSv1.1 with cipher AECDH-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 782011A0179 for ; Wed, 26 Nov 2014 11:25:13 -0800 (PST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by trail.lhotka.name (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0DAB154060F for ; Wed, 26 Nov 2014 20:25:11 +0100 (CET) Received: from trail.lhotka.name ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (trail.lhotka.name [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id PwxoGJIVHTwO for ; Wed, 26 Nov 2014 20:25:06 +0100 (CET) Received: from localhost (unknown [172.29.2.201]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by trail.lhotka.name (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 43587540466 for ; Wed, 26 Nov 2014 20:25:06 +0100 (CET) From: Ladislav Lhotka To: netmod@ietf.org User-Agent: Notmuch/0.18.1 (http://notmuchmail.org) Emacs/24.4.51.2 (x86_64-apple-darwin14.0.0) Date: Wed, 26 Nov 2014 20:25:05 +0100 Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Archived-At: http://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/netmod/SQw6pAlYeKF0HQML-LZpcKetrjE Subject: [netmod] LL review of draft-ietf-netmod-rfc6020bis-02 X-BeenThere: netmod@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: NETMOD WG list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 26 Nov 2014 19:25:17 -0000 Hi, below are my comments to YANG 1.1 draft. Lada **** Sec. 4.2.7 I think this is incorrect terminology: "When a node from one case is created, ..." - sec. 3 defines "data node" as a node in the schema tree. It should be "When a data node instance from one case is created, ...". Sec. 3 should probably also define what "instance" means. **** Sec. 4.2.2.2 OLD A leaf-list is a sequence of leaf nodes with exactly one value of a particular type per leaf. NEW A leaf-list instance is a sequence of values of a particular type. **** Sec. 7.5.3 The issue Y41 is marked as REVIEW, so I'd expect some text in this section explaining how "must" expressions on NP-containers are evaluated. **** Sec. 7.19.5 The second paragraph should say that a list key MUST NOT have a "when" statement. Such a statement has a different context node than a "when" statement on its ancestor, so it could break even if the two statements are identical. **** Sec. 9.10.3 In the last paragraph, what is "the prefix"? It depends on namespace declarations that are in effect, and there can even be multiple prefixes declared for the same URI. Therefore, I think the string value has to be the exact value of the node (with no prefix if there is none). Consequently, comparison of identities in XPath expressions should always be performed via special XPath functions. **** Sec. 9.10.5 The "when" expression in the example should be when 'derived-from-or-self(../crypto, "my-crypto", "aes")'; (see also my comment to sec. 10.4.1 below). **** Sec. 9.12 The validation procedure is too XML-centric. The value of a union instance needn't be a string. OLD When a string representing a union data type is validated, the string is validated against each member type, ... NEW A value representing a union data type is validated consecutively against each member type, ... **** Sec. 10 - The first paragraph should say that function signatures are specified in the same form as in XPath 1.0 spec. - Titles of subsections 10.1 and 10.2 could be "Node Set Functions" and "String Functions" (XPath spec uses these titles). ***** Sec. 10.1 OLD The function current() takes no input parameters, and returns a node set with the initial context node. NEW The function current() takes no input parameters, and returns a node-set that has the context node as its only member. ***** Sec. 10.3.1 Instead of the deref() function I'd suggest to define a more general function evaluate(), that already exists in EXSLT, see http://www.exslt.org/dyn/functions/evaluate/: object evaluate(string expr) The evaluate() function takes a string, evaluates it as an XPath expression and returns the resulting value, which may be a node-set, string, number or boolean. ***** Sec. 10.4.1 A similar function that's also needed is derived-from-or-self(). It would be needed in example 10.4.1.1 for doing things like augment "/interface" { when 'derived-from-or-self(type, "example-interface", "fast-ethernet")'; // fast-ethernet-specific definitions here } Alternatively, we could state in YANG 1.1 that derivation of identities is a reflexive relation, and then derived-from() would probably suffice. ***** Sec. 10.6.1 Maybe bit() is a better name than bit-is-set()? ***** Sec. 13 I don't know how how important it is to have the ABNF unambiguous. Previously, Jernej pointed out that refine-stmt makes the grammar ambiguous: http://www.ietf.org/mail-archive/web/netmod/current/msg07740.html The if-feature-expr production is another source of ambiguity. An unambiguous set of productions could look like this: if-feature-expr = if-feature-disj if-feature-disj = if-feature-conj if-feature-conj = identifier-ref-arg if-feature-expr = if-feature-expr 'or' if-feature-disj if-feature-disj = if-feature-disj 'and' if-feature-conj if-feature-conj = 'not' if-feature-conj / '(' if-feature-expr ')' -- Ladislav Lhotka, CZ.NIC Labs PGP Key ID: E74E8C0C From nobody Wed Nov 26 23:20:37 2014 Return-Path: X-Original-To: netmod@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: netmod@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 20C2F1A000F for ; Wed, 26 Nov 2014 23:20:27 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -4.2 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-4.2 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-2.3, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 1LjUC6uIaqZV for ; Wed, 26 Nov 2014 23:20:21 -0800 (PST) Received: from sessmg23.ericsson.net (sessmg23.ericsson.net [193.180.251.45]) (using TLSv1 with cipher DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id B67091A1BF0 for ; Wed, 26 Nov 2014 23:20:20 -0800 (PST) X-AuditID: c1b4fb2d-f79fc6d000001087-d5-5476d0b1b948 Received: from ESGSCHC004.ericsson.se (Unknown_Domain [153.88.253.124]) by sessmg23.ericsson.net (Symantec Mail Security) with SMTP id 62.46.04231.2B0D6745; Thu, 27 Nov 2014 08:20:18 +0100 (CET) Received: from ESGSCMB103.ericsson.se ([169.254.3.36]) by ESGSCHC004.ericsson.se ([10.0.18.180]) with mapi id 14.03.0195.001; Thu, 27 Nov 2014 15:20:16 +0800 From: Johnson Zhu To: "netmod@ietf.org" Thread-Topic: Any tool to test NETCONF/YANG RFC compliance? Thread-Index: AdAKEnGCUJOVdINjRM+8AtM0roPHsQ== Date: Thu, 27 Nov 2014 07:20:15 +0000 Message-ID: <31BFEF67CF6AC44BBEDE1890158D73773851C120@ESGSCMB103.ericsson.se> Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-originating-ip: [146.11.116.128] Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="_000_31BFEF67CF6AC44BBEDE1890158D73773851C120ESGSCMB103erics_" MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Brightmail-Tracker: H4sIAAAAAAAAA+NgFrrGLMWRmVeSWpSXmKPExsUyM+Jvje6mC2UhBu3dhhbzLzayOjB6LFny kymAMYrLJiU1J7MstUjfLoEr4/mbJsaCXtGK269msTYwXhDqYuTkkBAwkZg95w0LhC0mceHe erYuRi4OIYEjjBJdKw8wQjgLGSX+n5vDBlLFJqAjsaZ/EpgtIqAuMXMnSAcHh7CAmcSjhlSI sLVE39zFrBC2nsShh3OYQWwWAVWJa48+soCU8wr4ShzqKAEJMwLt/X5qDROIzSwgLnHryXwm iHsEJJbsOc8MYYtKvHz8jxXCVpJofLUNqj5f4kXTZUYQm1dAUOLkzCcsExiFZiEZNQtJ2Swk ZRBxHYkFuz+xQdjaEssWvmaGsc8ceMyELL6AkX0Vo2hxanFxbrqRsV5qUWZycXF+nl5easkm RmBEHNzyW3cH4+rXjocYBTgYlXh4P5wuCxFiTSwrrsw9xCjNwaIkzrvo3LxgIYH0xJLU7NTU gtSi+KLSnNTiQ4xMHJxSDYwZdXdU5/01v/Z96pxFm5fdzGE59fAj/93zB89kzo472vK2IXrG Lys5m2im1SmSmfMvcfOZuZ/Z82VvbvZczhObpnbpNBepcppMnW/w+eLJc5yZdqd2py5YeuKQ KZPrwSCpUqa+e3YSn6/lL7t278yEb82Bx62YWJ7at6w+v+PQ2f7M7hvNN5v4lViKMxINtZiL ihMByYoUW2kCAAA= Archived-At: http://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/netmod/XJh9GvSm1IBUFTcL1RJuwOblZ5s Subject: [netmod] Any tool to test NETCONF/YANG RFC compliance? X-BeenThere: netmod@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: NETMOD WG list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 27 Nov 2014 07:20:28 -0000 --_000_31BFEF67CF6AC44BBEDE1890158D73773851C120ESGSCMB103erics_ Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hi, We are looking some third party tool to test NETCONF/YANG RFC compliance. Any recommendation? /Johnson --_000_31BFEF67CF6AC44BBEDE1890158D73773851C120ESGSCMB103erics_ Content-Type: text/html; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

Hi,

 

We are looking some third party tool to test NETCONF= /YANG RFC compliance.

 

Any recommendation?

 

/Johnson

--_000_31BFEF67CF6AC44BBEDE1890158D73773851C120ESGSCMB103erics_-- From nobody Wed Nov 26 23:53:55 2014 Return-Path: X-Original-To: netmod@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: netmod@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 99B721A00F2 for ; Wed, 26 Nov 2014 23:53:54 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -0.661 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-0.661 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, HELO_EQ_CZ=0.445, HOST_EQ_CZ=0.904, T_RP_MATCHES_RCVD=-0.01] autolearn=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 5cs9lOOy6dzs for ; Wed, 26 Nov 2014 23:53:53 -0800 (PST) Received: from mail.nic.cz (mail.nic.cz [IPv6:2001:1488:800:400::400]) (using TLSv1 with cipher ADH-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id EC8751A889D for ; Wed, 26 Nov 2014 23:53:52 -0800 (PST) Received: from [192.168.1.108] (unknown [195.113.220.254]) by mail.nic.cz (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 964D113F797; Thu, 27 Nov 2014 08:53:49 +0100 (CET) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=simple/simple; d=nic.cz; s=default; t=1417074829; bh=GXswXyjP1C/lyWwq6dnbVMsvlRLW12kFM/MIe54WI2Q=; h=Content-Type:Mime-Version:Subject:From:In-Reply-To:Date:Cc: Content-Transfer-Encoding:Message-Id:References:To; b=JxTCKmh4PwPBfrjOKfpLucFn50NVyCqpN8tcFRAg9FGmfBevk4cUEPIbxMzTx3YcO 9TB0mVWQmSRNLHY9W2L2Dxmkio3LKiOMQdmf0VOuOl1PpTSOvDlcVpI6K67KZiOepB y4pCLcyvoLMiWd0inJzIpF1xdt5WCFSlDz0uaNQI= Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 7.3 \(1878.6\)) From: Ladislav Lhotka In-Reply-To: <31BFEF67CF6AC44BBEDE1890158D73773851C120@ESGSCMB103.ericsson.se> Date: Thu, 27 Nov 2014 08:53:50 +0100 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Message-Id: References: <31BFEF67CF6AC44BBEDE1890158D73773851C120@ESGSCMB103.ericsson.se> To: Johnson Zhu X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.1878.6) X-Virus-Scanned: clamav-milter 0.98.1 at mail X-Virus-Status: Clean Archived-At: http://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/netmod/fr7ikTCdXtnq7dofzJmH5xozb5Y Cc: "netmod@ietf.org" Subject: Re: [netmod] Any tool to test NETCONF/YANG RFC compliance? X-BeenThere: netmod@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: NETMOD WG list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 27 Nov 2014 07:53:54 -0000 On 27 Nov 2014, at 08:20, Johnson Zhu wrote: > Hi, > =20 > We are looking some third party tool to test NETCONF/YANG RFC = compliance. You can test data model compliance by saving protocol messages, such as = replies to or , in a file and then use pyang for = validating them. Here is a tutorial: https://code.google.com/p/pyang/wiki/InstanceValidation Lada > =20 > Any recommendation? > =20 > /Johnson > _______________________________________________ > netmod mailing list > netmod@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/netmod -- Ladislav Lhotka, CZ.NIC Labs PGP Key ID: E74E8C0C From nobody Thu Nov 27 01:11:59 2014 Return-Path: X-Original-To: netmod@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: netmod@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7FA161A0066 for ; Thu, 27 Nov 2014 01:11:58 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.3 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.3 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, J_CHICKENPOX_29=0.6] autolearn=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 7vGohp8-6xRk for ; Thu, 27 Nov 2014 01:11:56 -0800 (PST) Received: from trail.lhotka.name (trail.lhotka.name [77.48.224.143]) (using TLSv1.1 with cipher AECDH-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id A88FF1A0065 for ; Thu, 27 Nov 2014 01:11:55 -0800 (PST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by trail.lhotka.name (Postfix) with ESMTP id A4B72540716; Thu, 27 Nov 2014 10:11:53 +0100 (CET) Received: from trail.lhotka.name ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (trail.lhotka.name [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id D9fJW+cwfGhd; Thu, 27 Nov 2014 10:11:48 +0100 (CET) Received: from localhost (unknown [195.113.220.254]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by trail.lhotka.name (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id DA9405405E1; Thu, 27 Nov 2014 10:11:47 +0100 (CET) From: Ladislav Lhotka To: Andy Bierman In-Reply-To: References: <20141126.085313.1630843955824614645.mbj@tail-f.com> <20141126.093507.1662941382218735837.mbj@tail-f.com> User-Agent: Notmuch/0.18.1 (http://notmuchmail.org) Emacs/24.4.51.2 (x86_64-apple-darwin14.0.0) Date: Thu, 27 Nov 2014 10:11:48 +0100 Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Archived-At: http://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/netmod/gSE3FgZt4yh7dIExi2pUYFLCg9E Cc: NETMOD Working Group Subject: Re: [netmod] YANG 1.0 and 1.1 integration issues X-BeenThere: netmod@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: NETMOD WG list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 27 Nov 2014 09:11:58 -0000 Andy Bierman writes: > Hi, > > I am not sure you understand how difficult it is to change data > modeling languages > and still maintain the existing code. It only happened once > for SNMP -- very early on the totally awful SMIv1 was replaced by SMIv2. > SMIv1 was so bad, it was quickly replaced by SMIv2. All attempts to crea= te > SMIv3 failed spectacularly. > > YANG 1.0 is far from awful. The incremental features added to 1.1 > are nice-to-have. Almost all of them have work-arounds and the > ones that don't are relatively rare (if-feature expressions, XPath > functions, etc) In my opinion, we need to be more adaptive at this stage. YANG is not that widely deployed yet, and if we withhold changes now, it may turn out to be impossible to do them later. I wasn't there so I cannot really tell, but this factor could also have contributed to SMIv3 failure. We can pretend that everything we've done so far is perfect but then in the long run it might happen that all this YANG business won't be able to live up to expectations and the effort will be wasted. Then a new IETF WG may be formed in the next decade to address the same problem from scratch again. > > If YANG 1.1 cannot integrate with YANG 1.0, it will never get deployed. > Existing 1.0 modules need to continue to work. A massive rewrite of > all existing NETCONF/YANG code seems rather unrealistic. If the > plan is to require a flag day upgrade, then YANG 1.1 will never fly. > Might as well call it YANG 2.0 if that is the plan. Let's say experience will show that a new mandatory leaf has to be added to if:interface. Things like this may and will happen. It is no massive change but our current rules prevent us from adding it to a new revision of ietf-interfaces. Why? A YANG 1.1 related example is this: The way how we deal with identityrefs in XPath expressions is arguably broken because it relies on a particular assignment of XML namespace prefixes. If we do the right thing and change such XPath expressions using the new YANG 1.1 XPath functions, then my reading of sec. 10 in RFC 6020 is that we again can't make it into a new revision of the old module. This is bad. Backward compatibility is a good thing but it cannot be an absolute requirement. Lada > > Andy > > > On Wed, Nov 26, 2014 at 1:03 AM, Ladislav Lhotka wrote: >> >> On 26 Nov 2014, at 09:35, Martin Bjorklund wrote: >> >>> Ladislav Lhotka wrote: >>>> >>>> On 26 Nov 2014, at 08:53, Martin Bjorklund wrote: >>>> >>>>> Ladislav Lhotka wrote: >>>>>> Martin Bjorklund writes: >>>>>> ... >>>>>> >>>>>>>>> 3) What happens if a 1.1 module augments definitions in a 1.0 mod= ule? >>>>>>>>> Is this allowed? >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Yes. >>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> This will look like unknown anyxml to 1.0 clients, >>>>>>>>> since they are unaware of the unadvertised 1.1 modules (and cannot >>>>>>>>> read YANG 1.1 anyway). Is this the integration plan for augments? >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Yes - this is not different from an augment by an 1.0 module that is >>>>>>> unknown to the client. >>>>>>> >>>>>>>> I think this kind of augmenting makes the augmented module necessa= rily >>>>>>>> 1.1. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Disagree! >>>>>> >>>>>> Let's say a 1.1 client X configures nodes that are defined in the >>>>>> augmenting module and follow 1.1 rules. Client Y that is only 1.0 >>>>>> receives this new unknown stuff, or the new stuff appear in its >>>>>> candidate. What is client Y supposed to do? >>>>> >>>>> The same as if it receives nodes from an otherwise unknown namespace >>>>> (what this is depends on the client app; maybe ignore, maybe store but >>>>> do not interpret). >>>> >>>> I don=E2=80=99t see how client Y could possibly edit and then commit s= uch an >>>> candidate without knowing the rules. That would be extremely >>>> brittle. You are right - it is not much different from the current >>>> situation but that=E2=80=99s actually my point about cherry-picking ad= vertised >>>> modules. >>> >>> This all depend on what the client does. At the very extreme, the >>> client might just invoke in order to store a backup. >>> Should this break just b/c one module is YANG 1.1? >>> >>> As another example, maybe the client is a simple script that sets the >>> hostname/dns-server/ntp-server on a server from ietf-system. Should >>> this break just b/c some other module is YANG 1.1? >> >> It needn=E2=80=99t, but the client has to know what it is doing. If an a= ugmented leaf is a leafref that refers to that hostname/dns-server/ntp-serv= er, then the configuration will of course be rejected if the simple script = changes them. >> >> Section 10 and other old-client-compatibility rules in RFC 6020 give a f= alse impression that a client can *always* safely ignore stuff it doesn=E2= =80=99t understand, new revisions of modules etc., which is dangerous. >> >> On the other hand, the compatibility rules severely limit the options fo= r iterative development of modules. >> >> So IMO it would be better to move the compatibility rules (in the SHOULD= form) to 6087bis. Much of the conformance discussion would then also becom= e moot. >> >> Lada >> >>> >>> Sure, there might be clients that need to fully understand everything, >>> and that should be fine. >>> >>>> Another example: a module that a client chooses to ignore may define a >>>> new identity that the server is allowed to use as an identityref value >>>> of an =E2=80=9Cold=E2=80=9D leaf. This again could/should break the cl= ient. >>>> >>>>> >>>>>>>>> 4) In order to convert 1 YANG 1.0 module to 1.1, all the modules >>>>>>>>> that import it have to be updated as well, then all the modules t= hat >>>>>>>>> import those modules, etc. Even if this is done, conversion will >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> With the existing rules, a module that has been upgraded to 1.1 wi= ll >>>>>>>> probably have to use a different name, so such imports won't be >>>>>>>> possible >>>>>>>> anyway. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Disagree! >>>>>> >>>>>> In the routing module I use some identity comparisons that we know a= re >>>>>> broken. So in the 1.1 version of the module I'd like to use the new >>>>>> XPath function. Do you think we can continue using the old module >>>>>> name? >>>>> >>>>> Yes - it is in a new revision of the module. >>>> >>>> How could a 1.0 client possibly work with XPath expressions it doesn= =E2=80=99t >>>> understand? What if the new revision contains lists with optional >>>> keys, or anydata statements? >>>> >>>> Such changes are much more disruptive than those that are forbidden in >>>> sec. 10. >>>> >>>> I actually agree with you, it *should* be a new revision of the same >>>> module because otherwise the set of modules would soon become a >>>> terrible mess. However, old clients then simply can=E2=80=99t expect t= o be >>>> able to use a new revision exactly as an old one. >>> >>> >>> >>> /martin >> >> -- >> Ladislav Lhotka, CZ.NIC Labs >> PGP Key ID: E74E8C0C >> >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> netmod mailing list >> netmod@ietf.org >> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/netmod --=20 Ladislav Lhotka, CZ.NIC Labs PGP Key ID: E74E8C0C From nobody Thu Nov 27 04:04:34 2014 Return-Path: X-Original-To: netmod@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: netmod@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 573E81A88D8; Thu, 27 Nov 2014 03:31:53 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -14.082 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-14.082 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, MIME_HTML_MOSTLY=0.428, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_HI=-5, SPF_PASS=-0.001, T_RP_MATCHES_RCVD=-0.01, USER_IN_DEF_DKIM_WL=-7.5] autolearn=ham Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 9EazR9fwqNRx; Thu, 27 Nov 2014 03:31:52 -0800 (PST) Received: from aer-iport-3.cisco.com (aer-iport-3.cisco.com [173.38.203.53]) (using TLSv1 with cipher RC4-SHA (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 2A0341A88D7; Thu, 27 Nov 2014 03:31:51 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/simple; d=cisco.com; i=@cisco.com; l=21745; q=dns/txt; s=iport; t=1417087911; x=1418297511; h=message-id:date:from:mime-version:to:subject; bh=O9YgwORIDOf8m+H2MbES4eVCpHYrYYEQWcQTQN2PaJ8=; b=Uojkqt0n/A79GvndPJPVH9IlTPkOd4phSykf7+6ZsiVVwfdqInXRf9G8 tRhjr7riHdahzJhXDAqOtu+zkxijWTplTVOhI/f5VDcY6/SA07koAW0wm TZoW+nTq2mgInT6o12SNnWr3egOPDJmO7zXfiKi6irbQxnPAGEqRL/bIT k=; X-IronPort-Anti-Spam-Filtered: true X-IronPort-Anti-Spam-Result: AqYEAEgLd1StJssW/2dsb2JhbABbgkKBFcgehm9/AQEBAQF9hDZLPRYBARYDAgECAUsNCAEBBYg3DawqpXsBAQgCIJVPBZ8BiAyPEIN9PjCCSgEBAQ X-IronPort-AV: E=Sophos;i="5.07,469,1413244800"; d="scan'208,217";a="247305264" Received: from aer-iport-nat.cisco.com (HELO aer-core-3.cisco.com) ([173.38.203.22]) by aer-iport-3.cisco.com with ESMTP; 27 Nov 2014 11:31:49 +0000 Received: from [10.60.67.84] (ams-bclaise-8913.cisco.com [10.60.67.84]) by aer-core-3.cisco.com (8.14.5/8.14.5) with ESMTP id sARBVnx3025072; Thu, 27 Nov 2014 11:31:49 GMT Message-ID: <54770BA5.5060603@cisco.com> Date: Thu, 27 Nov 2014 12:31:49 +0100 From: Benoit Claise User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 6.1; WOW64; rv:24.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/24.7.0 MIME-Version: 1.0 To: IETF-Discussion list Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="------------060105080300090203070003" Archived-At: http://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/netmod/6vYHT_6_i19uZOUV7twj7GBXCUM X-Mailman-Approved-At: Thu, 27 Nov 2014 04:04:32 -0800 Subject: [netmod] Blog: YANG Really Takes Off in the Industry X-BeenThere: netmod@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: NETMOD WG list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 27 Nov 2014 11:31:53 -0000 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --------------060105080300090203070003 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Dear all, [netmod WG list is bcc'ed] Enjoy http://www.ietf.org/blog/2014/11/yang-really-takes-off-in-the-industry/ Regards, Benoit --------------060105080300090203070003 Content-Type: text/html; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Dear all,

[netmod WG list is bcc'ed]

Enjoy http://www.ietf.org/blog/2014/11/yang-really-takes-off-in-the-industry/

Regards, Benoit


--------------060105080300090203070003-- From nobody Thu Nov 27 04:19:00 2014 Return-Path: X-Original-To: netmod@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: netmod@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id DAB9C1A88ED; Thu, 27 Nov 2014 04:18:57 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.9 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.9 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9] autolearn=ham Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 8HFv0Oe5PIE8; Thu, 27 Nov 2014 04:18:56 -0800 (PST) Received: from ietfa.amsl.com (localhost [IPv6:::1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 623AA1A88E1; Thu, 27 Nov 2014 04:18:56 -0800 (PST) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: internet-drafts@ietf.org To: i-d-announce@ietf.org X-Test-IDTracker: no X-IETF-IDTracker: 5.7.4 Auto-Submitted: auto-generated Precedence: bulk Message-ID: <20141127121856.10185.26982.idtracker@ietfa.amsl.com> Date: Thu, 27 Nov 2014 04:18:56 -0800 Archived-At: http://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/netmod/YC4r3I0z6Pl-QjEfFoJu5jm3_1k Cc: netmod@ietf.org Subject: [netmod] I-D Action: draft-ietf-netmod-yang-json-02.txt X-BeenThere: netmod@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 List-Id: NETMOD WG list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 27 Nov 2014 12:18:58 -0000 A New Internet-Draft is available from the on-line Internet-Drafts directories. This draft is a work item of the NETCONF Data Modeling Language Working Group of the IETF. Title : JSON Encoding of Data Modeled with YANG Author : Ladislav Lhotka Filename : draft-ietf-netmod-yang-json-02.txt Pages : 18 Date : 2014-11-27 Abstract: This document defines encoding rules for representing configuration, state data, RPC input and output parameters, and notifications defined using YANG as JavaScript Object Notation (JSON) text. The IETF datatracker status page for this draft is: https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-netmod-yang-json/ There's also a htmlized version available at: http://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-netmod-yang-json-02 A diff from the previous version is available at: http://www.ietf.org/rfcdiff?url2=draft-ietf-netmod-yang-json-02 Please note that it may take a couple of minutes from the time of submission until the htmlized version and diff are available at tools.ietf.org. Internet-Drafts are also available by anonymous FTP at: ftp://ftp.ietf.org/internet-drafts/ From nobody Thu Nov 27 04:22:19 2014 Return-Path: X-Original-To: netmod@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: netmod@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id A5C9B1A88E6 for ; Thu, 27 Nov 2014 04:22:16 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -0.661 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-0.661 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, HELO_EQ_CZ=0.445, HOST_EQ_CZ=0.904, T_RP_MATCHES_RCVD=-0.01] autolearn=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id tYoLgmnP0bqN for ; Thu, 27 Nov 2014 04:22:13 -0800 (PST) Received: from mail.nic.cz (mail.nic.cz [IPv6:2001:1488:800:400::400]) (using TLSv1 with cipher ADH-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id B49CB1A88E4 for ; Thu, 27 Nov 2014 04:22:13 -0800 (PST) Received: from [192.168.1.108] (unknown [195.113.220.254]) by mail.nic.cz (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 4F84E13FA9F for ; Thu, 27 Nov 2014 13:22:12 +0100 (CET) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=simple/simple; d=nic.cz; s=default; t=1417090932; bh=DLSdGLo+NqtvQD6twMu51YOas0UIDd+qU+tOhsL83Do=; h=From:Content-Type:Content-Transfer-Encoding:Subject:Date: References:To:Message-Id:Mime-Version; b=Ye0xT+eaPZC8XH7PVUnGbozbbKd5K8sYV+Va4HEXdiJmPHHzH+zgwInIbqi9dbaIi ag9vuUNO1+4dtEQW59FMgtbHqMIKV7CH/oQYE7Pr/MDBmnEzRPO1Q/mj4itrsaAyKh 7IOuSOgNm30XYtN7TeHmZbo4cqr3HJgXXyAGjnsw= From: Ladislav Lhotka Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Date: Thu, 27 Nov 2014 13:22:13 +0100 References: <20141127121856.10185.26982.idtracker@ietfa.amsl.com> To: NETMOD Working Group Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 7.3 \(1878.6\)) X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.1878.6) X-Virus-Scanned: clamav-milter 0.98.1 at mail X-Virus-Status: Clean Archived-At: http://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/netmod/4OD-eWGYEd58JlIaxPW2b_PBMr8 Subject: [netmod] Fwd: I-D Action: draft-ietf-netmod-yang-json-02.txt X-BeenThere: netmod@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: NETMOD WG list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 27 Nov 2014 12:22:16 -0000 Hi, the only substantial change in this revision is the encoding of = instance-identifiers that was aligned with namespace encoding rules in = sec. 4. In my view, the document should now be ready for WG Last Call. Lada Begin forwarded message: > From: internet-drafts@ietf.org > Subject: [netmod] I-D Action: draft-ietf-netmod-yang-json-02.txt > Date: 27 Nov 2014 13:18:56 GMT+1 > To: i-d-announce@ietf.org > Cc: netmod@ietf.org >=20 >=20 > A New Internet-Draft is available from the on-line Internet-Drafts = directories. > This draft is a work item of the NETCONF Data Modeling Language = Working Group of the IETF. >=20 > Title : JSON Encoding of Data Modeled with YANG > Author : Ladislav Lhotka > Filename : draft-ietf-netmod-yang-json-02.txt > Pages : 18 > Date : 2014-11-27 >=20 > Abstract: > This document defines encoding rules for representing configuration, > state data, RPC input and output parameters, and notifications > defined using YANG as JavaScript Object Notation (JSON) text. >=20 >=20 > The IETF datatracker status page for this draft is: > https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-netmod-yang-json/ >=20 > There's also a htmlized version available at: > http://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-netmod-yang-json-02 >=20 > A diff from the previous version is available at: > http://www.ietf.org/rfcdiff?url2=3Ddraft-ietf-netmod-yang-json-02 >=20 >=20 > Please note that it may take a couple of minutes from the time of = submission > until the htmlized version and diff are available at tools.ietf.org. >=20 > Internet-Drafts are also available by anonymous FTP at: > ftp://ftp.ietf.org/internet-drafts/ >=20 > _______________________________________________ > netmod mailing list > netmod@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/netmod -- Ladislav Lhotka, CZ.NIC Labs PGP Key ID: E74E8C0C From nobody Thu Nov 27 07:50:48 2014 Return-Path: X-Original-To: netmod@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: netmod@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1DCFD1A0081 for ; Thu, 27 Nov 2014 07:50:47 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.379 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.379 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, FM_FORGED_GMAIL=0.622, J_CHICKENPOX_29=0.6, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW=-0.7, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id AAALDfJuBduD for ; Thu, 27 Nov 2014 07:50:45 -0800 (PST) Received: from mail-qa0-f47.google.com (mail-qa0-f47.google.com [209.85.216.47]) (using TLSv1 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-RC4-SHA (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id D171F1A006D for ; Thu, 27 Nov 2014 07:50:44 -0800 (PST) Received: by mail-qa0-f47.google.com with SMTP id s7so3411844qap.6 for ; Thu, 27 Nov 2014 07:50:44 -0800 (PST) X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20130820; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:in-reply-to:references:date :message-id:subject:from:to:cc:content-type :content-transfer-encoding; bh=Y7kNsHBRFefigLEsSn7VHtNa31+BlMRUn74KSCQ1vdc=; b=dIJAhjRRrucCFq5nbyA38FWEw0xUQ5PiYyKodiE8aKamvUWDLC4dHi+Fa9dxcasd4C +DQUtN2mkwCtyUv8OJNkmMymozexySQ7NrNnE1SbKnGbeOUfKzdSCo/hOGfh/AELPajY nI+89mR4Gpw90ixHrPJVxZsnxoNmdQhjcyb4aZDaj4WhGrSfo3LmLw9dBwtvdmny7dSt ryz/czRLn95gSwAyzFZlTfJqdyVdHO/dewJyH3eLXIpgr4at+xhZzvl4aHzj9cRyqv/a PqLU+9Ac6pCZZWohxtE1NfA3scqyYUq53bqhrD6eijF/+p1ZsccQFNxx8JGUpI4iiSYk nZaQ== X-Gm-Message-State: ALoCoQmjBDtwcsUPhZuWaxAONfqt7LBijGL14xfWRjmozF0Vi811MBlGQxFoT2oYD2JD61aTmHYy MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Received: by 10.140.34.75 with SMTP id k69mr2241211qgk.21.1417103444023; Thu, 27 Nov 2014 07:50:44 -0800 (PST) Received: by 10.140.37.52 with HTTP; Thu, 27 Nov 2014 07:50:43 -0800 (PST) In-Reply-To: References: <20141126.085313.1630843955824614645.mbj@tail-f.com> <20141126.093507.1662941382218735837.mbj@tail-f.com> Date: Thu, 27 Nov 2014 07:50:43 -0800 Message-ID: From: Andy Bierman To: Ladislav Lhotka Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Archived-At: http://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/netmod/FGok0iR68p61B7Qqt3g8sN9q8GM Cc: NETMOD Working Group Subject: Re: [netmod] YANG 1.0 and 1.1 integration issues X-BeenThere: netmod@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: NETMOD WG list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 27 Nov 2014 15:50:47 -0000 On Thu, Nov 27, 2014 at 1:11 AM, Ladislav Lhotka wrote: > Andy Bierman writes: > >> Hi, >> >> I am not sure you understand how difficult it is to change data >> modeling languages >> and still maintain the existing code. It only happened once >> for SNMP -- very early on the totally awful SMIv1 was replaced by SMIv2. >> SMIv1 was so bad, it was quickly replaced by SMIv2. All attempts to cre= ate >> SMIv3 failed spectacularly. >> >> YANG 1.0 is far from awful. The incremental features added to 1.1 >> are nice-to-have. Almost all of them have work-arounds and the >> ones that don't are relatively rare (if-feature expressions, XPath >> functions, etc) > > In my opinion, we need to be more adaptive at this stage. YANG is not > that widely deployed yet, and if we withhold changes now, it may turn > out to be impossible to do them later. I wasn't there so I cannot really > tell, but this factor could also have contributed to SMIv3 failure. > > We can pretend that everything we've done so far is perfect but then in > the long run it might happen that all this YANG business won't be able > to live up to expectations and the effort will be wasted. Then a new > IETF WG may be formed in the next decade to address the same problem > from scratch again. > Nobody said perfect. I said "far from awful". Not quite the same. I think 10 years is about right for starting YANG 2.0. A new WG can start up then and add more features. >> >> If YANG 1.1 cannot integrate with YANG 1.0, it will never get deployed. >> Existing 1.0 modules need to continue to work. A massive rewrite of >> all existing NETCONF/YANG code seems rather unrealistic. If the >> plan is to require a flag day upgrade, then YANG 1.1 will never fly. >> Might as well call it YANG 2.0 if that is the plan. > > Let's say experience will show that a new mandatory leaf has to be added > to if:interface. Things like this may and will happen. It is no massive > change but our current rules prevent us from adding it to a new > revision of ietf-interfaces. Why? Because deployments of the existing RFC will break if new mandatory nodes are added. Adding new functionality without breaking old functionality is often complicated. Look at NETCONF 1.0/1.1 implementations for an example. Switching framing schemes correctly is complicated, but we do that so old NETCONF clients continue to work. > > A YANG 1.1 related example is this: The way how we deal with > identityrefs in XPath expressions is arguably broken because it relies > on a particular assignment of XML namespace prefixes. If we do the right > thing and change such XPath expressions using the new YANG 1.1 XPath > functions, then my reading of sec. 10 in RFC 6020 is that we again can't > make it into a new revision of the old module. This is bad. > > Backward compatibility is a good thing but it cannot be an absolute > requirement. Tell that to the vendor who does not want to spend millions rewriting code that already works. > > Lada > > Andy >> >> Andy >> >> >> On Wed, Nov 26, 2014 at 1:03 AM, Ladislav Lhotka wrote: >>> >>> On 26 Nov 2014, at 09:35, Martin Bjorklund wrote: >>> >>>> Ladislav Lhotka wrote: >>>>> >>>>> On 26 Nov 2014, at 08:53, Martin Bjorklund wrote: >>>>> >>>>>> Ladislav Lhotka wrote: >>>>>>> Martin Bjorklund writes: >>>>>>> ... >>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> 3) What happens if a 1.1 module augments definitions in a 1.0 mo= dule? >>>>>>>>>> Is this allowed? >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Yes. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> This will look like unknown anyxml to 1.0 clients, >>>>>>>>>> since they are unaware of the unadvertised 1.1 modules (and cann= ot >>>>>>>>>> read YANG 1.1 anyway). Is this the integration plan for augments= ? >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Yes - this is not different from an augment by an 1.0 module that = is >>>>>>>> unknown to the client. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> I think this kind of augmenting makes the augmented module necess= arily >>>>>>>>> 1.1. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Disagree! >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Let's say a 1.1 client X configures nodes that are defined in the >>>>>>> augmenting module and follow 1.1 rules. Client Y that is only 1.0 >>>>>>> receives this new unknown stuff, or the new stuff appear in its >>>>>>> candidate. What is client Y supposed to do? >>>>>> >>>>>> The same as if it receives nodes from an otherwise unknown namespace >>>>>> (what this is depends on the client app; maybe ignore, maybe store b= ut >>>>>> do not interpret). >>>>> >>>>> I don=E2=80=99t see how client Y could possibly edit and then commit = such an >>>>> candidate without knowing the rules. That would be extremely >>>>> brittle. You are right - it is not much different from the current >>>>> situation but that=E2=80=99s actually my point about cherry-picking a= dvertised >>>>> modules. >>>> >>>> This all depend on what the client does. At the very extreme, the >>>> client might just invoke in order to store a backup. >>>> Should this break just b/c one module is YANG 1.1? >>>> >>>> As another example, maybe the client is a simple script that sets the >>>> hostname/dns-server/ntp-server on a server from ietf-system. Should >>>> this break just b/c some other module is YANG 1.1? >>> >>> It needn=E2=80=99t, but the client has to know what it is doing. If an = augmented leaf is a leafref that refers to that hostname/dns-server/ntp-ser= ver, then the configuration will of course be rejected if the simple script= changes them. >>> >>> Section 10 and other old-client-compatibility rules in RFC 6020 give a = false impression that a client can *always* safely ignore stuff it doesn=E2= =80=99t understand, new revisions of modules etc., which is dangerous. >>> >>> On the other hand, the compatibility rules severely limit the options f= or iterative development of modules. >>> >>> So IMO it would be better to move the compatibility rules (in the SHOUL= D form) to 6087bis. Much of the conformance discussion would then also beco= me moot. >>> >>> Lada >>> >>>> >>>> Sure, there might be clients that need to fully understand everything, >>>> and that should be fine. >>>> >>>>> Another example: a module that a client chooses to ignore may define = a >>>>> new identity that the server is allowed to use as an identityref valu= e >>>>> of an =E2=80=9Cold=E2=80=9D leaf. This again could/should break the c= lient. >>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> 4) In order to convert 1 YANG 1.0 module to 1.1, all the modules >>>>>>>>>> that import it have to be updated as well, then all the modules = that >>>>>>>>>> import those modules, etc. Even if this is done, conversion wil= l >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> With the existing rules, a module that has been upgraded to 1.1 w= ill >>>>>>>>> probably have to use a different name, so such imports won't be >>>>>>>>> possible >>>>>>>>> anyway. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Disagree! >>>>>>> >>>>>>> In the routing module I use some identity comparisons that we know = are >>>>>>> broken. So in the 1.1 version of the module I'd like to use the new >>>>>>> XPath function. Do you think we can continue using the old module >>>>>>> name? >>>>>> >>>>>> Yes - it is in a new revision of the module. >>>>> >>>>> How could a 1.0 client possibly work with XPath expressions it doesn= =E2=80=99t >>>>> understand? What if the new revision contains lists with optional >>>>> keys, or anydata statements? >>>>> >>>>> Such changes are much more disruptive than those that are forbidden i= n >>>>> sec. 10. >>>>> >>>>> I actually agree with you, it *should* be a new revision of the same >>>>> module because otherwise the set of modules would soon become a >>>>> terrible mess. However, old clients then simply can=E2=80=99t expect = to be >>>>> able to use a new revision exactly as an old one. >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> /martin >>> >>> -- >>> Ladislav Lhotka, CZ.NIC Labs >>> PGP Key ID: E74E8C0C >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> netmod mailing list >>> netmod@ietf.org >>> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/netmod > > -- > Ladislav Lhotka, CZ.NIC Labs > PGP Key ID: E74E8C0C From nobody Thu Nov 27 07:55:02 2014 Return-Path: X-Original-To: netmod@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: netmod@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 40D2C1A0075 for ; Thu, 27 Nov 2014 07:55:01 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.979 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.979 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, FM_FORGED_GMAIL=0.622, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW=-0.7, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id PuWJ5vzPniJB for ; Thu, 27 Nov 2014 07:54:59 -0800 (PST) Received: from mail-qa0-f49.google.com (mail-qa0-f49.google.com [209.85.216.49]) (using TLSv1 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-RC4-SHA (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 85DF41A0030 for ; Thu, 27 Nov 2014 07:54:59 -0800 (PST) Received: by mail-qa0-f49.google.com with SMTP id s7so3367187qap.8 for ; Thu, 27 Nov 2014 07:54:58 -0800 (PST) X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20130820; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:in-reply-to:references:date :message-id:subject:from:to:content-type; bh=6e7nM6tbMmDxfMX0CVGn0f6X9o930c6wKEBg2v5WkSk=; b=DSlFnJ1mezUSz52HJBI+QPtS5UUnOoLfd8oE8E/8O44uu1Epk6w4o+8WY61onTogWM 41wERDG0mA6RW0qmCLxcScGUEfGp9aqkRNzW3egZs42M/u36daHO4M9Q+nNliz6oPqrv PSv1SRNIRddDHzvAvOh3ETUag2YZ8emNcw0PlotA/+Blp2GTm1TNRLNkht3lZiKLaMYn QXXfRbelsYb99BVec9ncNFwAE00A8Gaei3/Bq8EsWnsPFpJ0sa2RCIcHk0VTC28IXAhV AtOP1bsS9pkxgk3VhorxrcNedyCqRr2wHg4hdE8HD+l7mxwCpbUu/bdn4SDdaDQmMGkb qfiQ== X-Gm-Message-State: ALoCoQndMt18B8pFLJaoK+/mLTroastCzmQEpkKP8RRvtTuXxqyo3d984xNJsEy7RunViHa1flwR MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Received: by 10.224.131.4 with SMTP id v4mr54605295qas.99.1417103698774; Thu, 27 Nov 2014 07:54:58 -0800 (PST) Received: by 10.140.37.52 with HTTP; Thu, 27 Nov 2014 07:54:58 -0800 (PST) In-Reply-To: <20141126154719.GA3633@elstar.local> References: <20141126154719.GA3633@elstar.local> Date: Thu, 27 Nov 2014 07:54:58 -0800 Message-ID: From: Andy Bierman To: Juergen Schoenwaelder , Andy Bierman , Ladislav Lhotka , "netmod@ietf.org" Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Archived-At: http://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/netmod/NvBv2QTZNmHsFO85hBtOdZfLTJw Subject: Re: [netmod] YANG 1.0 and 1.1 integration issues X-BeenThere: netmod@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: NETMOD WG list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 27 Nov 2014 15:55:01 -0000 On Wed, Nov 26, 2014 at 7:47 AM, Juergen Schoenwaelder wrote: > On Wed, Nov 26, 2014 at 07:28:57AM -0800, Andy Bierman wrote: >> >> - All compliant YANG 1.0 modules must be accepted as compliant YANG >> 1.1 modules. >> >> This bullet shows how little the WG thought about YANG 1.0 co-existence. >> At least we understand that no YANG 1.1 modules will be visible or usable >> by any YANG 1.0 tools. But does this bullet assume (like you) that >> all 1.0 modules will go away because they were all converted to 1.1? >> > > The bullet says that all YANG 1.0 modules remain valid with YANG 1.1 > and thus there is no need to say upgrade ietf-inet-types.yang. As > usual, there may be corner cases where YANG 1.1 clarifies things that > were unclear in YANG 1.0 and hence for these cases the WG needs to > make judgement calls. But the general direction is clear. > > I consider it likely that clients that take full advantage of YANG > (data model driven clients) will pick up YANG 1.1 quickly. If this > assumption turns out to be correct, then I do not really see any > problems. If servers pick up YANG 1.1 faster than data model driven > clients, well then these servers will simply push clients to pick up > YANG 1.1 fast as well. And since clients are generally easier to > upgrade, I am not worried about this either. > > But yes, we need to be careful with adoting solutions for issues that > may cause difficulties on the upgrade path. But we need to consider > this in the context of each issue separately (and I think we did in > the past several times). If there are specific solutions where people > think this makes an upgrade difficult, please post the concerns with a > suitable subject line identifying the issue. > I posted some specific issues. See first email on this thread. It seems a YANG 1.0 integration plan is not needed because YANG 1.0 will just go away instantly. I guess vendors will come up with their own plans if that doesn't work. > /js Andy > > -- > Juergen Schoenwaelder Jacobs University Bremen gGmbH > Phone: +49 421 200 3587 Campus Ring 1, 28759 Bremen, Germany > Fax: +49 421 200 3103 From nobody Thu Nov 27 08:28:23 2014 Return-Path: X-Original-To: netmod@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: netmod@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id E3D291A0074 for ; Thu, 27 Nov 2014 08:28:19 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -0.061 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-0.061 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, HELO_EQ_CZ=0.445, HOST_EQ_CZ=0.904, J_CHICKENPOX_29=0.6, T_RP_MATCHES_RCVD=-0.01] autolearn=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id XkbQ0sKYyDpz for ; Thu, 27 Nov 2014 08:28:17 -0800 (PST) Received: from mail.nic.cz (mail.nic.cz [IPv6:2001:1488:800:400::400]) (using TLSv1 with cipher ADH-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id CBB1C1A007E for ; Thu, 27 Nov 2014 08:28:16 -0800 (PST) Received: from [192.168.1.108] (unknown [195.113.220.254]) by mail.nic.cz (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 65A8213F9DC; Thu, 27 Nov 2014 17:28:15 +0100 (CET) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=simple/simple; d=nic.cz; s=default; t=1417105695; bh=vlbcUguTT0wLvIPTGi7F3Gjxu75qhgnz0aHAkdpGPzk=; h=Content-Type:Mime-Version:Subject:From:In-Reply-To:Date:Cc: Content-Transfer-Encoding:Message-Id:References:To; b=ZSs+VAgfpHWv4jTWYlI94oPiGrX/MPnGX34yHHVC5a4T51LOb9Py6wrPe3me3H7Ow ADbsnztfoMVSCTPdcB9T8TkrkHIvAZX8m8J60elUm4s9RIypLulgg8XQpIkDWgWlfY 3CeGVxHKE2A3hsCa30rjz4ma0DuXPdkhF0Cdr3DY= Content-Type: text/plain; charset=windows-1252 Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 7.3 \(1878.6\)) From: Ladislav Lhotka In-Reply-To: Date: Thu, 27 Nov 2014 17:28:16 +0100 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Message-Id: <5337443C-B45B-42DB-9699-8A62CA0B8B40@nic.cz> References: <20141126.085313.1630843955824614645.mbj@tail-f.com> <20141126.093507.1662941382218735837.mbj@tail-f.com> To: Andy Bierman X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.1878.6) X-Virus-Scanned: clamav-milter 0.98.1 at mail X-Virus-Status: Clean Archived-At: http://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/netmod/csbrmSD_AJFxPkdWLtVdKHqixLU Cc: NETMOD Working Group Subject: Re: [netmod] YANG 1.0 and 1.1 integration issues X-BeenThere: netmod@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: NETMOD WG list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 27 Nov 2014 16:28:20 -0000 On 27 Nov 2014, at 16:50, Andy Bierman wrote: > On Thu, Nov 27, 2014 at 1:11 AM, Ladislav Lhotka = wrote: >> Andy Bierman writes: >>=20 >>> Hi, >>>=20 >>> I am not sure you understand how difficult it is to change data >>> modeling languages >>> and still maintain the existing code. It only happened once >>> for SNMP -- very early on the totally awful SMIv1 was replaced by = SMIv2. >>> SMIv1 was so bad, it was quickly replaced by SMIv2. All attempts to = create >>> SMIv3 failed spectacularly. >>>=20 >>> YANG 1.0 is far from awful. The incremental features added to 1.1 >>> are nice-to-have. Almost all of them have work-arounds and the >>> ones that don't are relatively rare (if-feature expressions, XPath >>> functions, etc) >>=20 >> In my opinion, we need to be more adaptive at this stage. YANG is not >> that widely deployed yet, and if we withhold changes now, it may turn >> out to be impossible to do them later. I wasn't there so I cannot = really >> tell, but this factor could also have contributed to SMIv3 failure. >>=20 >> We can pretend that everything we've done so far is perfect but then = in >> the long run it might happen that all this YANG business won't be = able >> to live up to expectations and the effort will be wasted. Then a new >> IETF WG may be formed in the next decade to address the same problem >> from scratch again. >>=20 >=20 >=20 > Nobody said perfect. I said "far from awful". Not quite the same. >=20 > I think 10 years is about right for starting YANG 2.0. > A new WG can start up then and add more features. >=20 >=20 >=20 >>>=20 >>> If YANG 1.1 cannot integrate with YANG 1.0, it will never get = deployed. >>> Existing 1.0 modules need to continue to work. A massive rewrite of >>> all existing NETCONF/YANG code seems rather unrealistic. If the >>> plan is to require a flag day upgrade, then YANG 1.1 will never fly. >>> Might as well call it YANG 2.0 if that is the plan. >>=20 >> Let's say experience will show that a new mandatory leaf has to be = added >> to if:interface. Things like this may and will happen. It is no = massive >> change but our current rules prevent us from adding it to a new >> revision of ietf-interfaces. Why? >=20 > Because deployments of the existing RFC will break if > new mandatory nodes are added. Adding new functionality > without breaking old functionality is often complicated. So in my example the upgraded server advertises =93ietf-interface-bis=94 = module instead of =93ietf-interface=94. Is this any better for the = client? > Look at NETCONF 1.0/1.1 implementations for an example. > Switching framing schemes correctly is complicated, but we do that > so old NETCONF clients continue to work. Keeping old stuff for compatibility is not without cost (talk to = Microsoft guys). >=20 >=20 >>=20 >> A YANG 1.1 related example is this: The way how we deal with >> identityrefs in XPath expressions is arguably broken because it = relies >> on a particular assignment of XML namespace prefixes. If we do the = right >> thing and change such XPath expressions using the new YANG 1.1 XPath >> functions, then my reading of sec. 10 in RFC 6020 is that we again = can't >> make it into a new revision of the old module. This is bad. >>=20 >> Backward compatibility is a good thing but it cannot be an absolute >> requirement. >=20 > Tell that to the vendor who does not want to spend millions > rewriting code that already works. I remember hearing similar complaints about Linux because its kernel = APIs also change much more often than in commercial systems. Yes, some = third party vendors were pissed off along the way, but the result is = much better than it could possibly be if compatibility was an absolute = priority. I think for complex systems with many contributors this is a = better evolution strategy. Lada >=20 >=20 >>=20 >> Lada >>=20 >>=20 >=20 > Andy >=20 >=20 >>>=20 >>> Andy >>>=20 >>>=20 >>> On Wed, Nov 26, 2014 at 1:03 AM, Ladislav Lhotka = wrote: >>>>=20 >>>> On 26 Nov 2014, at 09:35, Martin Bjorklund wrote: >>>>=20 >>>>> Ladislav Lhotka wrote: >>>>>>=20 >>>>>> On 26 Nov 2014, at 08:53, Martin Bjorklund = wrote: >>>>>>=20 >>>>>>> Ladislav Lhotka wrote: >>>>>>>> Martin Bjorklund writes: >>>>>>>> ... >>>>>>>>=20 >>>>>>>>>>> 3) What happens if a 1.1 module augments definitions in a = 1.0 module? >>>>>>>>>>> Is this allowed? >>>>>>>>>=20 >>>>>>>>> Yes. >>>>>>>>>=20 >>>>>>>>>>> This will look like unknown anyxml to 1.0 clients, >>>>>>>>>>> since they are unaware of the unadvertised 1.1 modules (and = cannot >>>>>>>>>>> read YANG 1.1 anyway). Is this the integration plan for = augments? >>>>>>>>>=20 >>>>>>>>> Yes - this is not different from an augment by an 1.0 module = that is >>>>>>>>> unknown to the client. >>>>>>>>>=20 >>>>>>>>>> I think this kind of augmenting makes the augmented module = necessarily >>>>>>>>>> 1.1. >>>>>>>>>=20 >>>>>>>>> Disagree! >>>>>>>>=20 >>>>>>>> Let's say a 1.1 client X configures nodes that are defined in = the >>>>>>>> augmenting module and follow 1.1 rules. Client Y that is only = 1.0 >>>>>>>> receives this new unknown stuff, or the new stuff appear in its >>>>>>>> candidate. What is client Y supposed to do? >>>>>>>=20 >>>>>>> The same as if it receives nodes from an otherwise unknown = namespace >>>>>>> (what this is depends on the client app; maybe ignore, maybe = store but >>>>>>> do not interpret). >>>>>>=20 >>>>>> I don=92t see how client Y could possibly edit and then commit = such an >>>>>> candidate without knowing the rules. That would be extremely >>>>>> brittle. You are right - it is not much different from the = current >>>>>> situation but that=92s actually my point about cherry-picking = advertised >>>>>> modules. >>>>>=20 >>>>> This all depend on what the client does. At the very extreme, the >>>>> client might just invoke in order to store a backup. >>>>> Should this break just b/c one module is YANG 1.1? >>>>>=20 >>>>> As another example, maybe the client is a simple script that sets = the >>>>> hostname/dns-server/ntp-server on a server from ietf-system. = Should >>>>> this break just b/c some other module is YANG 1.1? >>>>=20 >>>> It needn=92t, but the client has to know what it is doing. If an = augmented leaf is a leafref that refers to that = hostname/dns-server/ntp-server, then the configuration will of course be = rejected if the simple script changes them. >>>>=20 >>>> Section 10 and other old-client-compatibility rules in RFC 6020 = give a false impression that a client can *always* safely ignore stuff = it doesn=92t understand, new revisions of modules etc., which is = dangerous. >>>>=20 >>>> On the other hand, the compatibility rules severely limit the = options for iterative development of modules. >>>>=20 >>>> So IMO it would be better to move the compatibility rules (in the = SHOULD form) to 6087bis. Much of the conformance discussion would then = also become moot. >>>>=20 >>>> Lada >>>>=20 >>>>>=20 >>>>> Sure, there might be clients that need to fully understand = everything, >>>>> and that should be fine. >>>>>=20 >>>>>> Another example: a module that a client chooses to ignore may = define a >>>>>> new identity that the server is allowed to use as an identityref = value >>>>>> of an =93old=94 leaf. This again could/should break the client. >>>>>>=20 >>>>>>>=20 >>>>>>>>>>> 4) In order to convert 1 YANG 1.0 module to 1.1, all the = modules >>>>>>>>>>> that import it have to be updated as well, then all the = modules that >>>>>>>>>>> import those modules, etc. Even if this is done, conversion = will >>>>>>>>>>=20 >>>>>>>>>> With the existing rules, a module that has been upgraded to = 1.1 will >>>>>>>>>> probably have to use a different name, so such imports won't = be >>>>>>>>>> possible >>>>>>>>>> anyway. >>>>>>>>>=20 >>>>>>>>> Disagree! >>>>>>>>=20 >>>>>>>> In the routing module I use some identity comparisons that we = know are >>>>>>>> broken. So in the 1.1 version of the module I'd like to use the = new >>>>>>>> XPath function. Do you think we can continue using the old = module >>>>>>>> name? >>>>>>>=20 >>>>>>> Yes - it is in a new revision of the module. >>>>>>=20 >>>>>> How could a 1.0 client possibly work with XPath expressions it = doesn=92t >>>>>> understand? What if the new revision contains lists with optional >>>>>> keys, or anydata statements? >>>>>>=20 >>>>>> Such changes are much more disruptive than those that are = forbidden in >>>>>> sec. 10. >>>>>>=20 >>>>>> I actually agree with you, it *should* be a new revision of the = same >>>>>> module because otherwise the set of modules would soon become a >>>>>> terrible mess. However, old clients then simply can=92t expect to = be >>>>>> able to use a new revision exactly as an old one. >>>>>=20 >>>>>=20 >>>>>=20 >>>>> /martin >>>>=20 >>>> -- >>>> Ladislav Lhotka, CZ.NIC Labs >>>> PGP Key ID: E74E8C0C >>>>=20 >>>>=20 >>>>=20 >>>>=20 >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> netmod mailing list >>>> netmod@ietf.org >>>> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/netmod >>=20 >> -- >> Ladislav Lhotka, CZ.NIC Labs >> PGP Key ID: E74E8C0C -- Ladislav Lhotka, CZ.NIC Labs PGP Key ID: E74E8C0C From nobody Thu Nov 27 09:00:40 2014 Return-Path: X-Original-To: netmod@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: netmod@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id D45391A00BF for ; Thu, 27 Nov 2014 09:00:31 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.379 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.379 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, FM_FORGED_GMAIL=0.622, J_CHICKENPOX_29=0.6, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW=-0.7, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 29tvh_Z4abIr for ; Thu, 27 Nov 2014 09:00:28 -0800 (PST) Received: from mail-qa0-f42.google.com (mail-qa0-f42.google.com [209.85.216.42]) (using TLSv1 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-RC4-SHA (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id D59161A00B9 for ; Thu, 27 Nov 2014 09:00:27 -0800 (PST) Received: by mail-qa0-f42.google.com with SMTP id j7so3533081qaq.15 for ; Thu, 27 Nov 2014 09:00:27 -0800 (PST) X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20130820; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:in-reply-to:references:date :message-id:subject:from:to:cc:content-type :content-transfer-encoding; bh=JCkZoO4S14Dtyx+SLRrq17SHeB6IhBzh+t5Ys3CmTaE=; b=N/1nh1IO65HBpmdhwYsTfTIW/xvipaaEhEfs5x3RI8QUsV8e5g/tyzrLOF5l0QkIWk O3YAO0bKkHYSWPFo13QDx2JBnODubtadF9w10v/fZ+fd5W2CmSZ1BR4V9OhaIh0SDGVx g4BC0XKycsf4N6HlWXlEkkz6XR1I8XmNrbOIxSTyX875+dFZi37wbT5nR6IALRUqncgQ uLYYXkje1zTcxREDfYr1mwvBexuzLu7/ua0IiFHXVFxbGU+BDT14aBR94bRaYYwwDxC7 RegKhls8rHwKgCktzy5IUM7G52U76F/hGndtnact9RI3uyh8fGEmph96hgJxGDUvXxXO bO7A== X-Gm-Message-State: ALoCoQlnFUDG/dTxE2hsiN9+VJPkoPCV70MqA5Zdj67t6Lv25ow7RgUtGquXYmCM7Mmh6fCNToj0 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Received: by 10.224.131.4 with SMTP id v4mr55016184qas.99.1417107626125; Thu, 27 Nov 2014 09:00:26 -0800 (PST) Received: by 10.140.37.52 with HTTP; Thu, 27 Nov 2014 09:00:25 -0800 (PST) In-Reply-To: <5337443C-B45B-42DB-9699-8A62CA0B8B40@nic.cz> References: <20141126.085313.1630843955824614645.mbj@tail-f.com> <20141126.093507.1662941382218735837.mbj@tail-f.com> <5337443C-B45B-42DB-9699-8A62CA0B8B40@nic.cz> Date: Thu, 27 Nov 2014 09:00:25 -0800 Message-ID: From: Andy Bierman To: Ladislav Lhotka Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Archived-At: http://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/netmod/v_FcYGs8mTAUK_UEDQtBKjDi_l0 Cc: NETMOD Working Group Subject: Re: [netmod] YANG 1.0 and 1.1 integration issues X-BeenThere: netmod@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: NETMOD WG list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 27 Nov 2014 17:00:34 -0000 On Thu, Nov 27, 2014 at 8:28 AM, Ladislav Lhotka wrote: > > On 27 Nov 2014, at 16:50, Andy Bierman wrote: > >> On Thu, Nov 27, 2014 at 1:11 AM, Ladislav Lhotka wrote: >>> Andy Bierman writes: >>> >>>> Hi, >>>> >>>> I am not sure you understand how difficult it is to change data >>>> modeling languages >>>> and still maintain the existing code. It only happened once >>>> for SNMP -- very early on the totally awful SMIv1 was replaced by SMIv= 2. >>>> SMIv1 was so bad, it was quickly replaced by SMIv2. All attempts to c= reate >>>> SMIv3 failed spectacularly. >>>> >>>> YANG 1.0 is far from awful. The incremental features added to 1.1 >>>> are nice-to-have. Almost all of them have work-arounds and the >>>> ones that don't are relatively rare (if-feature expressions, XPath >>>> functions, etc) >>> >>> In my opinion, we need to be more adaptive at this stage. YANG is not >>> that widely deployed yet, and if we withhold changes now, it may turn >>> out to be impossible to do them later. I wasn't there so I cannot reall= y >>> tell, but this factor could also have contributed to SMIv3 failure. >>> >>> We can pretend that everything we've done so far is perfect but then in >>> the long run it might happen that all this YANG business won't be able >>> to live up to expectations and the effort will be wasted. Then a new >>> IETF WG may be formed in the next decade to address the same problem >>> from scratch again. >>> >> >> >> Nobody said perfect. I said "far from awful". Not quite the same. >> >> I think 10 years is about right for starting YANG 2.0. >> A new WG can start up then and add more features. >> >> >> >>>> >>>> If YANG 1.1 cannot integrate with YANG 1.0, it will never get deployed= . >>>> Existing 1.0 modules need to continue to work. A massive rewrite of >>>> all existing NETCONF/YANG code seems rather unrealistic. If the >>>> plan is to require a flag day upgrade, then YANG 1.1 will never fly. >>>> Might as well call it YANG 2.0 if that is the plan. >>> >>> Let's say experience will show that a new mandatory leaf has to be adde= d >>> to if:interface. Things like this may and will happen. It is no massive >>> change but our current rules prevent us from adding it to a new >>> revision of ietf-interfaces. Why? >> >> Because deployments of the existing RFC will break if >> new mandatory nodes are added. Adding new functionality >> without breaking old functionality is often complicated. > > So in my example the upgraded server advertises =E2=80=9Cietf-interface-b= is=E2=80=9D module instead of =E2=80=9Cietf-interface=E2=80=9D. Is this any= better for the client? > I do not agree that adding mandatory nodes to an existing data model is needed. Why would new mandatory nodes be directly added to the interface list as child nodes? The mandatory nodes are going to be associated with some new protocol, etc. It is reasonable to require a P-container or list to contain the mandatory nodes. >> Look at NETCONF 1.0/1.1 implementations for an example. >> Switching framing schemes correctly is complicated, but we do that >> so old NETCONF clients continue to work. > > > Keeping old stuff for compatibility is not without cost (talk to Microsof= t guys). > >> >> >>> >>> A YANG 1.1 related example is this: The way how we deal with >>> identityrefs in XPath expressions is arguably broken because it relies >>> on a particular assignment of XML namespace prefixes. If we do the righ= t >>> thing and change such XPath expressions using the new YANG 1.1 XPath >>> functions, then my reading of sec. 10 in RFC 6020 is that we again can'= t >>> make it into a new revision of the old module. This is bad. >>> >>> Backward compatibility is a good thing but it cannot be an absolute >>> requirement. >> >> Tell that to the vendor who does not want to spend millions >> rewriting code that already works. > > I remember hearing similar complaints about Linux because its kernel APIs= also change much more often than in commercial systems. Yes, some third pa= rty vendors were pissed off along the way, but the result is much better th= an it could possibly be if compatibility was an absolute priority. I think = for complex systems with many contributors this is a better evolution strat= egy. > Breaking backward compatibility is an engineering trade-off and vendors wil= l decide between stability and new features (like they always do). I expect IETF standards track RFCs to be as stable as possible. I expect research and experimentation to be unstable. > Lada > >> Andy >> >>> >>> Lada >>> >>> >> >> Andy >> >> >>>> >>>> Andy >>>> >>>> >>>> On Wed, Nov 26, 2014 at 1:03 AM, Ladislav Lhotka wrote= : >>>>> >>>>> On 26 Nov 2014, at 09:35, Martin Bjorklund wrote: >>>>> >>>>>> Ladislav Lhotka wrote: >>>>>>> >>>>>>> On 26 Nov 2014, at 08:53, Martin Bjorklund wrote: >>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Ladislav Lhotka wrote: >>>>>>>>> Martin Bjorklund writes: >>>>>>>>> ... >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> 3) What happens if a 1.1 module augments definitions in a 1.0 = module? >>>>>>>>>>>> Is this allowed? >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> Yes. >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> This will look like unknown anyxml to 1.0 clients, >>>>>>>>>>>> since they are unaware of the unadvertised 1.1 modules (and ca= nnot >>>>>>>>>>>> read YANG 1.1 anyway). Is this the integration plan for augmen= ts? >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> Yes - this is not different from an augment by an 1.0 module tha= t is >>>>>>>>>> unknown to the client. >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> I think this kind of augmenting makes the augmented module nece= ssarily >>>>>>>>>>> 1.1. >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> Disagree! >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Let's say a 1.1 client X configures nodes that are defined in the >>>>>>>>> augmenting module and follow 1.1 rules. Client Y that is only 1.0 >>>>>>>>> receives this new unknown stuff, or the new stuff appear in its >>>>>>>>> candidate. What is client Y supposed to do? >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> The same as if it receives nodes from an otherwise unknown namespa= ce >>>>>>>> (what this is depends on the client app; maybe ignore, maybe store= but >>>>>>>> do not interpret). >>>>>>> >>>>>>> I don=E2=80=99t see how client Y could possibly edit and then commi= t such an >>>>>>> candidate without knowing the rules. That would be extremely >>>>>>> brittle. You are right - it is not much different from the current >>>>>>> situation but that=E2=80=99s actually my point about cherry-picking= advertised >>>>>>> modules. >>>>>> >>>>>> This all depend on what the client does. At the very extreme, the >>>>>> client might just invoke in order to store a backup. >>>>>> Should this break just b/c one module is YANG 1.1? >>>>>> >>>>>> As another example, maybe the client is a simple script that sets th= e >>>>>> hostname/dns-server/ntp-server on a server from ietf-system. Should >>>>>> this break just b/c some other module is YANG 1.1? >>>>> >>>>> It needn=E2=80=99t, but the client has to know what it is doing. If a= n augmented leaf is a leafref that refers to that hostname/dns-server/ntp-s= erver, then the configuration will of course be rejected if the simple scri= pt changes them. >>>>> >>>>> Section 10 and other old-client-compatibility rules in RFC 6020 give = a false impression that a client can *always* safely ignore stuff it doesn= =E2=80=99t understand, new revisions of modules etc., which is dangerous. >>>>> >>>>> On the other hand, the compatibility rules severely limit the options= for iterative development of modules. >>>>> >>>>> So IMO it would be better to move the compatibility rules (in the SHO= ULD form) to 6087bis. Much of the conformance discussion would then also be= come moot. >>>>> >>>>> Lada >>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> Sure, there might be clients that need to fully understand everythin= g, >>>>>> and that should be fine. >>>>>> >>>>>>> Another example: a module that a client chooses to ignore may defin= e a >>>>>>> new identity that the server is allowed to use as an identityref va= lue >>>>>>> of an =E2=80=9Cold=E2=80=9D leaf. This again could/should break the= client. >>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> 4) In order to convert 1 YANG 1.0 module to 1.1, all the modul= es >>>>>>>>>>>> that import it have to be updated as well, then all the module= s that >>>>>>>>>>>> import those modules, etc. Even if this is done, conversion w= ill >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> With the existing rules, a module that has been upgraded to 1.1= will >>>>>>>>>>> probably have to use a different name, so such imports won't be >>>>>>>>>>> possible >>>>>>>>>>> anyway. >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> Disagree! >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> In the routing module I use some identity comparisons that we kno= w are >>>>>>>>> broken. So in the 1.1 version of the module I'd like to use the n= ew >>>>>>>>> XPath function. Do you think we can continue using the old module >>>>>>>>> name? >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Yes - it is in a new revision of the module. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> How could a 1.0 client possibly work with XPath expressions it does= n=E2=80=99t >>>>>>> understand? What if the new revision contains lists with optional >>>>>>> keys, or anydata statements? >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Such changes are much more disruptive than those that are forbidden= in >>>>>>> sec. 10. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> I actually agree with you, it *should* be a new revision of the sam= e >>>>>>> module because otherwise the set of modules would soon become a >>>>>>> terrible mess. However, old clients then simply can=E2=80=99t expec= t to be >>>>>>> able to use a new revision exactly as an old one. >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> /martin >>>>> >>>>> -- >>>>> Ladislav Lhotka, CZ.NIC Labs >>>>> PGP Key ID: E74E8C0C >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> netmod mailing list >>>>> netmod@ietf.org >>>>> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/netmod >>> >>> -- >>> Ladislav Lhotka, CZ.NIC Labs >>> PGP Key ID: E74E8C0C > > -- > Ladislav Lhotka, CZ.NIC Labs > PGP Key ID: E74E8C0C > > > > From nobody Thu Nov 27 12:37:43 2014 Return-Path: X-Original-To: netmod@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: netmod@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6B1571A0195 for ; Thu, 27 Nov 2014 12:37:42 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.56 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.56 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, HELO_EQ_DE=0.35, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, T_RP_MATCHES_RCVD=-0.01] autolearn=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id fM0hCMm4tq6D for ; Thu, 27 Nov 2014 12:37:40 -0800 (PST) Received: from atlas3.jacobs-university.de (atlas3.jacobs-university.de [212.201.44.18]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher AECDH-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id EBA881A0187 for ; Thu, 27 Nov 2014 12:37:39 -0800 (PST) Received: from localhost (demetrius5.irc-it.jacobs-university.de [10.70.0.222]) by atlas3.jacobs-university.de (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6C73C716; Thu, 27 Nov 2014 21:37:38 +0100 (CET) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at jacobs-university.de Received: from atlas3.jacobs-university.de ([10.70.0.220]) by localhost (demetrius5.jacobs-university.de [10.70.0.222]) (amavisd-new, port 10030) with ESMTP id SWngZEYU4iZP; Thu, 27 Nov 2014 21:37:15 +0100 (CET) Received: from hermes.jacobs-university.de (hermes.jacobs-university.de [212.201.44.23]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (Client CN "hermes.jacobs-university.de", Issuer "Jacobs University CA - G01" (verified OK)) by atlas3.jacobs-university.de (Postfix) with ESMTPS; Thu, 27 Nov 2014 21:37:37 +0100 (CET) Received: from localhost (demetrius3.jacobs-university.de [212.201.44.48]) by hermes.jacobs-university.de (Postfix) with ESMTP id 427842002C; Thu, 27 Nov 2014 21:37:37 +0100 (CET) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at jacobs-university.de Received: from hermes.jacobs-university.de ([212.201.44.23]) by localhost (demetrius3.jacobs-university.de [212.201.44.32]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id VUF8neZa2tUE; Thu, 27 Nov 2014 21:37:35 +0100 (CET) Received: from elstar.local (elstar.jacobs.jacobs-university.de [10.50.231.133]) by hermes.jacobs-university.de (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1E1EC20017; Thu, 27 Nov 2014 21:37:35 +0100 (CET) Received: by elstar.local (Postfix, from userid 501) id DDFCB2FD236A; Thu, 27 Nov 2014 21:37:33 +0100 (CET) Date: Thu, 27 Nov 2014 21:37:33 +0100 From: Juergen Schoenwaelder To: Andy Bierman Message-ID: <20141127203731.GB7837@elstar.local> Mail-Followup-To: Andy Bierman , Ladislav Lhotka , "netmod@ietf.org" References: <20141126154719.GA3633@elstar.local> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: User-Agent: Mutt/1.4.2.3i Archived-At: http://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/netmod/dVwlqT77MW67ebmbz1PMSlwxPH0 Cc: "netmod@ietf.org" Subject: Re: [netmod] YANG 1.0 and 1.1 integration issues X-BeenThere: netmod@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list Reply-To: Juergen Schoenwaelder List-Id: NETMOD WG list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 27 Nov 2014 20:37:42 -0000 On Thu, Nov 27, 2014 at 07:54:58AM -0800, Andy Bierman wrote: > On Wed, Nov 26, 2014 at 7:47 AM, Juergen Schoenwaelder > wrote: > > On Wed, Nov 26, 2014 at 07:28:57AM -0800, Andy Bierman wrote: > >> > >> - All compliant YANG 1.0 modules must be accepted as compliant YANG > >> 1.1 modules. > >> > >> This bullet shows how little the WG thought about YANG 1.0 co-existence. > >> At least we understand that no YANG 1.1 modules will be visible or usable > >> by any YANG 1.0 tools. But does this bullet assume (like you) that > >> all 1.0 modules will go away because they were all converted to 1.1? > >> > > > > The bullet says that all YANG 1.0 modules remain valid with YANG 1.1 > > and thus there is no need to say upgrade ietf-inet-types.yang. As > > usual, there may be corner cases where YANG 1.1 clarifies things that > > were unclear in YANG 1.0 and hence for these cases the WG needs to > > make judgement calls. But the general direction is clear. > > > > I consider it likely that clients that take full advantage of YANG > > (data model driven clients) will pick up YANG 1.1 quickly. If this > > assumption turns out to be correct, then I do not really see any > > problems. If servers pick up YANG 1.1 faster than data model driven > > clients, well then these servers will simply push clients to pick up > > YANG 1.1 fast as well. And since clients are generally easier to > > upgrade, I am not worried about this either. > > > > But yes, we need to be careful with adoting solutions for issues that > > may cause difficulties on the upgrade path. But we need to consider > > this in the context of each issue separately (and I think we did in > > the past several times). If there are specific solutions where people > > think this makes an upgrade difficult, please post the concerns with a > > suitable subject line identifying the issue. > > > > I posted some specific issues. See first email on this thread. > > It seems a YANG 1.0 integration plan is not needed because YANG 1.0 > will just go away instantly. I guess vendors will come up with their > own plans if that doesn't work. OK. I will go through the issues (as technical contributor). But then you also need to tell me what your goals of starting this thread are... > 1) The YANG 1.0 clients are expected to continue using YANG 1.0 > modules and ignore all YANG 1.1 modules. Is a YANG 1.0 client > supposed to have a complete API such that all interactions > between 1.0 data models and 1.1 data models can be ignored? Yes. > 2) It is clearly an error if a 1.0 module imports a 1.1 module, or a 1.0 > submodule includes a 1.1 submodule, but what about 1.1 using 1.0? > Does the server enforce 1.0 rules for the imported modules and > included submodules (within the 1.1 context), or does the compiler > promote them and use 1.1 rules for the 1.0 modules/submodules? It should be fine for a 1.1 module to import a 1.0 module. I do not see how an import would change the interpretation of a 1.0 module. If you specific examples where this is not the case, bring them up. > 3) What happens if a 1.1 module augments definitions in a 1.0 module? > Is this allowed? This will look like unknown anyxml to 1.0 clients, > since they are unaware of the unadvertised 1.1 modules (and cannot > read YANG 1.1 anyway). Is this the integration plan for augments? Yes, this is allowed. The 1.0 client will not understand the augmenting data model. We have the same with anyxml or in NETCONF in general if different schema languages are used. > 4) In order to convert 1 YANG 1.0 module to 1.1, all the modules > that import it have to be updated as well, then all the modules that > import those modules, etc. Even if this is done, conversion will > break any 1.0 client that used that module. How is the IETF > (or anybody with YANG 1.0 modules) supposed to build on the > existing module library and switch to YANG 1.1? Seems like there > will need to be a flag day where all tools, clients, servers, and > modules are converted at once. I do not think we need a flag day. Whether a module is updated depends on the nature of the modules (there is no immediate benefit of updating lets say ietf-inet-types.yang to YANG 1.1), it depends how fast YANG 1.1 clients are deployed, and of course on product specific decisions. I assume for most of the existing YANG 1.0 instrumentation code, the upgrade from a YANG 1.0 definition to a YANG 1.1 definition is a noop. /js -- Juergen Schoenwaelder Jacobs University Bremen gGmbH Phone: +49 421 200 3587 Campus Ring 1, 28759 Bremen, Germany Fax: +49 421 200 3103 From nobody Fri Nov 28 03:29:22 2014 Return-Path: X-Original-To: netmod@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: netmod@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 152FF1A1B43 for ; Fri, 28 Nov 2014 03:29:21 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.911 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.911 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, SPF_PASS=-0.001, T_RP_MATCHES_RCVD=-0.01] autolearn=ham Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 4qoCyybTOUMw for ; Fri, 28 Nov 2014 03:29:18 -0800 (PST) Received: from mail.tail-f.com (mail.tail-f.com [83.241.162.140]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 316E01A1B3B for ; Fri, 28 Nov 2014 03:29:18 -0800 (PST) Received: from localhost (x15.tail-f.com [192.168.1.60]) by mail.tail-f.com (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 464CF1280098; Fri, 28 Nov 2014 12:29:16 +0100 (CET) Date: Fri, 28 Nov 2014 12:29:16 +0100 (CET) Message-Id: <20141128.122916.638757582101311806.mbj@tail-f.com> To: lhotka@nic.cz From: Martin Bjorklund In-Reply-To: References: X-Mailer: Mew version 6.5 on Emacs 23.4 / Mule 6.0 (HANACHIRUSATO) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: Text/Plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Archived-At: http://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/netmod/so22k6NUtxMKgr4K5W_u-g5OJak Cc: netmod@ietf.org Subject: Re: [netmod] LL review of draft-ietf-netmod-rfc6020bis-02 X-BeenThere: netmod@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: NETMOD WG list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 28 Nov 2014 11:29:21 -0000 Lada, Thank you for this review! Comments inline. Ladislav Lhotka wrote: > Hi, > > below are my comments to YANG 1.1 draft. > > Lada > > **** Sec. 4.2.7 > I think this is incorrect terminology: "When a node from one case > is created, ..." - sec. 3 defines "data node" as a node in the > schema tree. It should be "When a data node instance from one > case is created, ...". Sec. 3 should probably also define what > "instance" means. (This text hasn't changed from RFC 6020) How about: "When a node from one case is created in the data tree, ..."? > **** Sec. 4.2.2.2 > OLD > A leaf-list is a sequence of leaf nodes with exactly one value of a > particular type per leaf. > NEW > A leaf-list instance is a sequence of values of a particular type. (This text hasn't changed from RFC 6020) How about using similar language as in 4.2.2.4 for lists: "A leaf-list defines a sequence of values of a particular type." > **** Sec. 7.5.3 > The issue Y41 is marked as REVIEW, so I'd expect some text in > this section explaining how "must" expressions on NP-containers > are evaluated. Yes you are right. Today there is actually some duplication of text between section 6.4.1 and 7.5.3. Instead of adding to the duplication, I suggest we do: OLD: When a datastore is validated, all "must" constraints are conceptually evaluated once for each data node in the data tree, and for all leafs with default values in use (see Section 7.6.1). If a data node does not exist in the data tree, and it does not have a default value, its "must" statements are not evaluated. NEW: When a datastore is validated, all "must" constraints are conceptually evaluated once for each data node in the accessible tree (see Section 6.4.1). > **** Sec. 7.19.5 > The second paragraph should say that a list key MUST NOT have a > "when" statement. Such a statement has a different context node > than a "when" statement on its ancestor, so it could break even > if the two statements are identical. Ok, I agree. Phil made the same comment at the mic in Honolulu, so unless anyone objects, I'll make this change. > **** Sec. 9.10.3 > In the last paragraph, what is "the prefix"? It depends on > namespace declarations that are in effect, and there can even be > multiple prefixes declared for the same URI. > > Therefore, I think the string value has to be the exact value of > the node (with no prefix if there is none). This would break modules like ietf-system, which use the : value. The idea is that the prefix is the prefix used in the import statement. NEW: The string value of a node of type identityref in a "must" or "when" XPath expression is the referred identity's qualified name with the prefix present. If the referred identity is defined in an imported module, the prefix in the string value is the prefix defined in the corresponding "import" statement. Otherwise, the prefix in the string value is the prefix for the current module. > Consequently, > comparison of identities in XPath expressions should always be > performed via special XPath functions. > **** Sec. 9.10.5 > The "when" expression in the example should be > > when 'derived-from-or-self(../crypto, "my-crypto", "aes")'; > > (see also my comment to sec. 10.4.1 below). See above. > **** Sec. 9.12 > The validation procedure is too XML-centric. The value of a union > instance needn't be a string. > > OLD > When a string representing a union data type is validated, > the string is validated against each member type, ... > NEW > A value representing a union data type is validated > consecutively against each member type, ... Ok, fixed. > **** Sec. 10 > - The first paragraph should say that function signatures > are specified in the same form as in XPath 1.0 spec. Ok. > - Titles of subsections 10.1 and 10.2 could be "Node Set > Functions" and "String Functions" (XPath spec uses these > titles). But then it wouldn't be consistent with the other subsections... > ***** Sec. 10.1 > OLD > The function current() takes no input parameters, and > returns a node set with the initial context node. > NEW > The function current() takes no input parameters, and > returns a node-set that has the context node as its only > member. Ok, fixed. > ***** Sec. 10.3.1 > Instead of the deref() function I'd suggest to define a more > general function evaluate(), that already exists in EXSLT, see > http://www.exslt.org/dyn/functions/evaluate/: > > object evaluate(string expr) > > The evaluate() function takes a string, evaluates it as an XPath > expression and returns the resulting value, which may be a > node-set, string, number or boolean. I would like to hear other peoples opinion on this. > ***** Sec. 10.4.1 > A similar function that's also needed is derived-from-or-self(). Ok, added. > It would be needed in example 10.4.1.1 for doing things like > > augment "/interface" { > when 'derived-from-or-self(type, > "example-interface", > "fast-ethernet")'; > // fast-ethernet-specific definitions here > } > Alternatively, we could state in YANG 1.1 that derivation of > identities is a reflexive relation, and then derived-from() > would probably suffice. > ***** Sec. 10.6.1 > Maybe bit() is a better name than bit-is-set()? I prefer a more descriptive name than just "bit". is-bit-set() bit-set() -- not good, sounds like it might set the bit bit-set-p() bit-is-set() > ***** Sec. 13 > I don't know how how important it is to have the ABNF > unambiguous. Previously, Jernej pointed out that refine-stmt > makes the grammar ambiguous: > > http://www.ietf.org/mail-archive/web/netmod/current/msg07740.html > The if-feature-expr production is another source of > ambiguity. Why is it ambiguous? > An unambiguous set of productions could look like > this: > > if-feature-expr = if-feature-disj > if-feature-disj = if-feature-conj > if-feature-conj = identifier-ref-arg > if-feature-expr = if-feature-expr 'or' if-feature-disj > if-feature-disj = if-feature-disj 'and' if-feature-conj > if-feature-conj = 'not' if-feature-conj / '(' if-feature-expr ')' Hmm, this can't be right; you're defining each LHS twice. /martin From nobody Fri Nov 28 05:36:15 2014 Return-Path: X-Original-To: netmod@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: netmod@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4CDF51A1ADB for ; Fri, 28 Nov 2014 05:36:13 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -0.661 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-0.661 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, HELO_EQ_CZ=0.445, HOST_EQ_CZ=0.904, T_RP_MATCHES_RCVD=-0.01] autolearn=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id Sz5EdXczpNgv for ; Fri, 28 Nov 2014 05:36:11 -0800 (PST) Received: from mail.nic.cz (mail.nic.cz [IPv6:2001:1488:800:400::400]) (using TLSv1 with cipher ADH-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 7DB891A1A6C for ; Fri, 28 Nov 2014 05:36:11 -0800 (PST) Received: from [192.168.1.108] (unknown [195.113.220.254]) by mail.nic.cz (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id B86F013F6D7 for ; Fri, 28 Nov 2014 14:36:09 +0100 (CET) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=simple/simple; d=nic.cz; s=default; t=1417181769; bh=Dttk+DemVOgGntuntzlZ2PSpB7ksZSoY6AKXZLN2Dac=; h=From:Content-Type:Content-Transfer-Encoding:Subject:Date: References:To:Message-Id:Mime-Version; b=E4gVJQcG5SPyTTcoaJF1/vohYfjivm2nwSeHwEv4BHNWcngnmC8pbbhklEmhz4ZNc N5ABPIBpFKoudvdKxst1dZe8jVikmZWB5e3t0OQ99Fpfe+AUTdTTEPHrJ2QpM69p0y XEK3qIKZUCV/XLaOgiioAaG2NMJ0mUrWOJbKa/ZE= From: Ladislav Lhotka Content-Type: text/plain; charset=windows-1252 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Date: Fri, 28 Nov 2014 14:36:09 +0100 References: <20141128133157.7808.83054.idtracker@ietfa.amsl.com> To: NETMOD Working Group Message-Id: <1307F092-152A-487F-A5C8-8DE449A0015D@nic.cz> Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 7.3 \(1878.6\)) X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.1878.6) X-Virus-Scanned: clamav-milter 0.98.1 at mail X-Virus-Status: Clean Archived-At: http://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/netmod/PHrD6Nvmi-3ID4hfpT_UQP1IlVM Subject: [netmod] Fwd: New Version Notification for draft-lhotka-netmod-yang-annotations-00.txt X-BeenThere: netmod@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: NETMOD WG list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 28 Nov 2014 13:36:13 -0000 Hi, this draft contains the module =93ietf-yang-annotations=94 that is = intended to contain definitions of generally useful metadata = annotations. I included two annotations that I think might be handy. If = you know about others, please let me know. Thanks, Lada Begin forwarded message: > From: internet-drafts@ietf.org > Subject: New Version Notification for = draft-lhotka-netmod-yang-annotations-00.txt > Date: 28 Nov 2014 14:31:57 GMT+1 > To: Ladislav Lhotka , "Ladislav Lhotka" >=20 >=20 > A new version of I-D, draft-lhotka-netmod-yang-annotations-00.txt > has been successfully submitted by Ladislav Lhotka and posted to the > IETF repository. >=20 > Name: draft-lhotka-netmod-yang-annotations > Revision: 00 > Title: Common Metadata Annotations for Data Modelled = with YANG > Document date: 2014-11-28 > Group: Individual Submission > Pages: 9 > URL: = http://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-lhotka-netmod-yang-annotations-0= 0.txt > Status: = https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-lhotka-netmod-yang-annotations/ > Htmlized: = http://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-lhotka-netmod-yang-annotations-00 >=20 >=20 > Abstract: > This document introduces a collection of common metadata annotations > intended for use in data modeled with the YANG language. >=20 >=20 >=20 >=20 > Please note that it may take a couple of minutes from the time of = submission > until the htmlized version and diff are available at tools.ietf.org. >=20 > The IETF Secretariat >=20 -- Ladislav Lhotka, CZ.NIC Labs PGP Key ID: E74E8C0C From nobody Fri Nov 28 07:09:54 2014 Return-Path: X-Original-To: netmod@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: netmod@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4A8371A1B5F for ; Fri, 28 Nov 2014 07:09:38 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.9 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.9 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9] autolearn=ham Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id ADW-bEcSjd-r for ; Fri, 28 Nov 2014 07:09:24 -0800 (PST) Received: from trail.lhotka.name (trail.lhotka.name [77.48.224.143]) (using TLSv1.1 with cipher AECDH-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id A2D491A1A73 for ; Fri, 28 Nov 2014 07:09:20 -0800 (PST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by trail.lhotka.name (Postfix) with ESMTP id A32A05407F1; Fri, 28 Nov 2014 16:09:18 +0100 (CET) Received: from trail.lhotka.name ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (trail.lhotka.name [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id I1a8BzJ2v+kc; Fri, 28 Nov 2014 16:09:12 +0100 (CET) Received: from localhost (unknown [195.113.220.254]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by trail.lhotka.name (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id B2FE25405E1; Fri, 28 Nov 2014 16:09:11 +0100 (CET) From: Ladislav Lhotka To: Martin Bjorklund In-Reply-To: <20141128.122916.638757582101311806.mbj@tail-f.com> References: <20141128.122916.638757582101311806.mbj@tail-f.com> User-Agent: Notmuch/0.18.1 (http://notmuchmail.org) Emacs/24.4.51.2 (x86_64-apple-darwin14.0.0) Date: Fri, 28 Nov 2014 16:09:11 +0100 Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Archived-At: http://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/netmod/VSrEiue8DcoyTp6-8SgG5jxF29M Cc: netmod@ietf.org Subject: Re: [netmod] LL review of draft-ietf-netmod-rfc6020bis-02 X-BeenThere: netmod@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: NETMOD WG list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 28 Nov 2014 15:09:39 -0000 Martin Bjorklund writes: > Lada, > > Thank you for this review! Comments inline. > > > Ladislav Lhotka wrote: >> Hi, >> >> below are my comments to YANG 1.1 draft. >> >> Lada >> >> **** Sec. 4.2.7 >> I think this is incorrect terminology: "When a node from one case >> is created, ..." - sec. 3 defines "data node" as a node in the >> schema tree. It should be "When a data node instance from one >> case is created, ...". Sec. 3 should probably also define what >> "instance" means. > > (This text hasn't changed from RFC 6020) Yes, I know, I just came across it recently. > > How about: "When a node from one case is created in the data tree, > ..."? The term "node" is overloaded. The terminology section defines only "schema node" and "data node" (as a special type of schema node) but "node" is also often used for refering to an instance (i.e. XML element). And then XPath uses "node" in yet another sense. It is confusing but I don't know whether we can do something about it. > > >> **** Sec. 4.2.2.2 >> OLD >> A leaf-list is a sequence of leaf nodes with exactly one value of a >> particular type per leaf. >> NEW >> A leaf-list instance is a sequence of values of a particular type. > > (This text hasn't changed from RFC 6020) > > How about using similar language as in 4.2.2.4 for lists: "A leaf-list > defines a sequence of values of a particular type." OK. > > >> **** Sec. 7.5.3 >> The issue Y41 is marked as REVIEW, so I'd expect some text in >> this section explaining how "must" expressions on NP-containers >> are evaluated. > > Yes you are right. Today there is actually some duplication of text > between section 6.4.1 and 7.5.3. Instead of adding to the > duplication, I suggest we do: > > OLD: > > When a datastore is validated, all "must" constraints are > conceptually evaluated once for each data node in the data tree, and > for all leafs with default values in use (see Section 7.6.1). If a > data node does not exist in the data tree, and it does not have a > default value, its "must" statements are not evaluated. > > NEW: > > When a datastore is validated, all "must" constraints are conceptually > evaluated once for each data node in the accessible tree (see > Section 6.4.1). Sec. 6.4.1 talks about accessible tree, and I think it is not the same as "data tree" in sec. 7.5.3: If a data node does not exist in the data tree, and it does not have a default value, its "must" statements are not evaluated. That is, one thing is to decide which "must" statements are to be evaluated, and another thing is to determine the accessible tree for a particular XPath expression. I think sec. 7.5.3 should say something like this: For validation purposes, the data tree is extended with the following default contents: o If a node that exists in the data tree has a non-presence container as its child, then this container is added if it is missing. o If a node that exists in the data tree has a leaf as its child, and the data model defines a default value for this leaf, then the leaf is added if it is missing. Maybe a special term could be introduced for the extended data tree, such as "effective data tree". > > >> **** Sec. 7.19.5 >> The second paragraph should say that a list key MUST NOT have a >> "when" statement. Such a statement has a different context node >> than a "when" statement on its ancestor, so it could break even >> if the two statements are identical. > > Ok, I agree. Phil made the same comment at the mic in Honolulu, so > unless anyone objects, I'll make this change. OK. Maybe the same could be done also for if-feature on keys (last paragraph in 7.18.2). Although here the two conditions must be the same, I see no point in having if-feature on a key if it is already on an ancestor node. > > >> **** Sec. 9.10.3 >> In the last paragraph, what is "the prefix"? It depends on >> namespace declarations that are in effect, and there can even be >> multiple prefixes declared for the same URI. >> >> Therefore, I think the string value has to be the exact value of >> the node (with no prefix if there is none). > > This would break modules like ietf-system, which use the > : value. Yes, in ietf-routing as well. That's why we need to switch to that XPath function asap. > > The idea is that the prefix is the prefix used in the import > statement. I think this is ill-defined because identityref value is defined to be a qualified name, and this term has an exact meaning in XPath (http://www.w3.org/TR/REC-xml-names/#NT-QName): The Prefix provides the namespace prefix part of the qualified name, and MUST be associated with a namespace URI reference in a namespace declaration. The import statement has no effect in an instance document. > > NEW: > > The string value of a node of type identityref in a "must" or > "when" XPath expression is the referred identity's qualified name > with the prefix present. If the referred identity is defined in an > imported module, the prefix in the string value is the prefix > defined in the corresponding "import" statement. Otherwise, the > prefix in the string value is the prefix for the current module. > > >> Consequently, >> comparison of identities in XPath expressions should always be >> performed via special XPath functions. >> **** Sec. 9.10.5 >> The "when" expression in the example should be >> >> when 'derived-from-or-self(../crypto, "my-crypto", "aes")'; >> >> (see also my comment to sec. 10.4.1 below). > > See above. > >> **** Sec. 9.12 >> The validation procedure is too XML-centric. The value of a union >> instance needn't be a string. >> >> OLD >> When a string representing a union data type is validated, >> the string is validated against each member type, ... >> NEW >> A value representing a union data type is validated >> consecutively against each member type, ... > > Ok, fixed. > >> **** Sec. 10 >> - The first paragraph should say that function signatures >> are specified in the same form as in XPath 1.0 spec. > > Ok. > >> - Titles of subsections 10.1 and 10.2 could be "Node Set >> Functions" and "String Functions" (XPath spec uses these >> titles). > > But then it wouldn't be consistent with the other subsections... OK. > >> ***** Sec. 10.1 >> OLD >> The function current() takes no input parameters, and >> returns a node set with the initial context node. >> NEW >> The function current() takes no input parameters, and >> returns a node-set that has the context node as its only >> member. > > Ok, fixed. > >> ***** Sec. 10.3.1 >> Instead of the deref() function I'd suggest to define a more >> general function evaluate(), that already exists in EXSLT, see >> http://www.exslt.org/dyn/functions/evaluate/: >> >> object evaluate(string expr) >> >> The evaluate() function takes a string, evaluates it as an XPath >> expression and returns the resulting value, which may be a >> node-set, string, number or boolean. > > I would like to hear other peoples opinion on this. > >> ***** Sec. 10.4.1 >> A similar function that's also needed is derived-from-or-self(). > > Ok, added. > >> It would be needed in example 10.4.1.1 for doing things like >> >> augment "/interface" { >> when 'derived-from-or-self(type, >> "example-interface", >> "fast-ethernet")'; >> // fast-ethernet-specific definitions here >> } >> Alternatively, we could state in YANG 1.1 that derivation of >> identities is a reflexive relation, and then derived-from() >> would probably suffice. >> ***** Sec. 10.6.1 >> Maybe bit() is a better name than bit-is-set()? > > I prefer a more descriptive name than just "bit". > > is-bit-set() > bit-set() -- not good, sounds like it might set the bit > bit-set-p() > bit-is-set() bit-is-set() doesn't sound like a question. How about bit-test()? > > >> ***** Sec. 13 >> I don't know how how important it is to have the ABNF >> unambiguous. Previously, Jernej pointed out that refine-stmt >> makes the grammar ambiguous: >> >> http://www.ietf.org/mail-archive/web/netmod/current/msg07740.html >> The if-feature-expr production is another source of >> ambiguity. > > Why is it ambiguous? Because you can have two different derivation trees for the same expression, such as "foo and bar or baz", see http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ambiguous_grammar As Jernej pointed out, this is mainly of concern for somebody who wants to generate a parser directly from the ABNF. > >> An unambiguous set of productions could look like >> this: >> >> if-feature-expr = if-feature-disj >> if-feature-disj = if-feature-conj >> if-feature-conj = identifier-ref-arg >> if-feature-expr = if-feature-expr 'or' if-feature-disj >> if-feature-disj = if-feature-disj 'and' if-feature-conj >> if-feature-conj = 'not' if-feature-conj / '(' if-feature-expr ')' > > Hmm, this can't be right; you're defining each LHS twice. OK, if it is forbidden in ABNF, then it could be rewritten like so: if-feature-expr = if-feature-disj / if-feature-expr 'or' if-feature-disj if-feature-disj = if-feature-conj / if-feature-disj 'and' if-feature-conj if-feature-conj = identifier-ref-arg / 'not' if-feature-conj / '(' if-feature-expr ')' Lada > > > /martin -- Ladislav Lhotka, CZ.NIC Labs PGP Key ID: E74E8C0C From nobody Fri Nov 28 09:03:36 2014 Return-Path: X-Original-To: netmod@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: netmod@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id DA0C71A007D for ; Fri, 28 Nov 2014 09:03:34 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.979 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.979 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, FM_FORGED_GMAIL=0.622, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW=-0.7, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id rsbGSsiEDsnh for ; Fri, 28 Nov 2014 09:03:32 -0800 (PST) Received: from mail-qc0-f172.google.com (mail-qc0-f172.google.com [209.85.216.172]) (using TLSv1 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-RC4-SHA (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id B84671A01BA for ; Fri, 28 Nov 2014 09:03:28 -0800 (PST) Received: by mail-qc0-f172.google.com with SMTP id m20so5086738qcx.31 for ; Fri, 28 Nov 2014 09:03:28 -0800 (PST) X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20130820; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:in-reply-to:references:date :message-id:subject:from:to:content-type; bh=UWP9w1IS37+K/ibMazbahqjw0FGrxrAztey0Mq9Pp9s=; b=QuV2vnK0257aFwb6ptnl1uD22EDRQDZLWmGPhozS/nomcaxqpHpejkZXZWyU/XOUCn TeSdLVmcgPuJFqIDEb510NGVj+IKEOCluYV4G4pXpgjH/RLrn1ZpBndVG0IYXfmKhjBw iX5rzPWkYnTbahazxLCxkGlL8IZ0770khsIzYySDJ6mq6jNXDhYmm0qv7PX/qpfhbPUF 5imJ2glzdoHjKHMU/BWUAzzkJRN5tuFB2xM/wKPnxiaTxQ3jYLB1YkO6hQ3g1U4wyP4o dQAHG/5qaO2VLbKb8QPXegAIcAPCROWWJ8+HsQHVys1RDyAZJW/dyJQ/AL+nHUxb/pWJ m3KQ== X-Gm-Message-State: ALoCoQl2i62B9beh2SnJpVVOk08a+JmKrZ2Im0nCk7hDWXMFo/0wboiwI7nygGdMKim6hs2K4YBW MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Received: by 10.224.131.4 with SMTP id v4mr63573782qas.99.1417194207544; Fri, 28 Nov 2014 09:03:27 -0800 (PST) Received: by 10.140.37.52 with HTTP; Fri, 28 Nov 2014 09:03:27 -0800 (PST) In-Reply-To: <20141127203731.GB7837@elstar.local> References: <20141126154719.GA3633@elstar.local> <20141127203731.GB7837@elstar.local> Date: Fri, 28 Nov 2014 09:03:27 -0800 Message-ID: From: Andy Bierman To: Juergen Schoenwaelder , Andy Bierman , Ladislav Lhotka , "netmod@ietf.org" Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Archived-At: http://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/netmod/ijl84Era--9g1hiVinCUoNw4XQw Subject: Re: [netmod] YANG 1.0 and 1.1 integration issues X-BeenThere: netmod@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: NETMOD WG list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 28 Nov 2014 17:03:35 -0000 On Thu, Nov 27, 2014 at 12:37 PM, Juergen Schoenwaelder wrote: > On Thu, Nov 27, 2014 at 07:54:58AM -0800, Andy Bierman wrote: >> On Wed, Nov 26, 2014 at 7:47 AM, Juergen Schoenwaelder >> wrote: >> > On Wed, Nov 26, 2014 at 07:28:57AM -0800, Andy Bierman wrote: >> >> >> >> - All compliant YANG 1.0 modules must be accepted as compliant YANG >> >> 1.1 modules. >> >> >> >> This bullet shows how little the WG thought about YANG 1.0 co-existence. >> >> At least we understand that no YANG 1.1 modules will be visible or usable >> >> by any YANG 1.0 tools. But does this bullet assume (like you) that >> >> all 1.0 modules will go away because they were all converted to 1.1? >> >> >> > >> > The bullet says that all YANG 1.0 modules remain valid with YANG 1.1 >> > and thus there is no need to say upgrade ietf-inet-types.yang. As >> > usual, there may be corner cases where YANG 1.1 clarifies things that >> > were unclear in YANG 1.0 and hence for these cases the WG needs to >> > make judgement calls. But the general direction is clear. >> > >> > I consider it likely that clients that take full advantage of YANG >> > (data model driven clients) will pick up YANG 1.1 quickly. If this >> > assumption turns out to be correct, then I do not really see any >> > problems. If servers pick up YANG 1.1 faster than data model driven >> > clients, well then these servers will simply push clients to pick up >> > YANG 1.1 fast as well. And since clients are generally easier to >> > upgrade, I am not worried about this either. >> > >> > But yes, we need to be careful with adoting solutions for issues that >> > may cause difficulties on the upgrade path. But we need to consider >> > this in the context of each issue separately (and I think we did in >> > the past several times). If there are specific solutions where people >> > think this makes an upgrade difficult, please post the concerns with a >> > suitable subject line identifying the issue. >> > >> >> I posted some specific issues. See first email on this thread. >> >> It seems a YANG 1.0 integration plan is not needed because YANG 1.0 >> will just go away instantly. I guess vendors will come up with their >> own plans if that doesn't work. > > OK. I will go through the issues (as technical contributor). But then > you also need to tell me what your goals of starting this thread > are... I want to understand how YANG 1.1 modules can be deployed in a way that does not disturb any YANG 1.0 implementations. I do not agree that the migration will be instant, or even fast. I think you, Martin, and I are no the same page wrt/ updating YANG 1.0 modules only when needed. They should continue to work even if YANG 1.1 modules are added to the system. Andy > >> 1) The YANG 1.0 clients are expected to continue using YANG 1.0 >> modules and ignore all YANG 1.1 modules. Is a YANG 1.0 client >> supposed to have a complete API such that all interactions >> between 1.0 data models and 1.1 data models can be ignored? > > Yes. > >> 2) It is clearly an error if a 1.0 module imports a 1.1 module, or a 1.0 >> submodule includes a 1.1 submodule, but what about 1.1 using 1.0? >> Does the server enforce 1.0 rules for the imported modules and >> included submodules (within the 1.1 context), or does the compiler >> promote them and use 1.1 rules for the 1.0 modules/submodules? > > It should be fine for a 1.1 module to import a 1.0 module. I do not > see how an import would change the interpretation of a 1.0 module. If > you specific examples where this is not the case, bring them up. > >> 3) What happens if a 1.1 module augments definitions in a 1.0 module? >> Is this allowed? This will look like unknown anyxml to 1.0 clients, >> since they are unaware of the unadvertised 1.1 modules (and cannot >> read YANG 1.1 anyway). Is this the integration plan for augments? > > Yes, this is allowed. The 1.0 client will not understand the > augmenting data model. We have the same with anyxml or in NETCONF in > general if different schema languages are used. > >> 4) In order to convert 1 YANG 1.0 module to 1.1, all the modules >> that import it have to be updated as well, then all the modules that >> import those modules, etc. Even if this is done, conversion will >> break any 1.0 client that used that module. How is the IETF >> (or anybody with YANG 1.0 modules) supposed to build on the >> existing module library and switch to YANG 1.1? Seems like there >> will need to be a flag day where all tools, clients, servers, and >> modules are converted at once. > > I do not think we need a flag day. Whether a module is updated depends > on the nature of the modules (there is no immediate benefit of > updating lets say ietf-inet-types.yang to YANG 1.1), it depends how > fast YANG 1.1 clients are deployed, and of course on product specific > decisions. I assume for most of the existing YANG 1.0 instrumentation > code, the upgrade from a YANG 1.0 definition to a YANG 1.1 definition > is a noop. > > /js > > -- > Juergen Schoenwaelder Jacobs University Bremen gGmbH > Phone: +49 421 200 3587 Campus Ring 1, 28759 Bremen, Germany > Fax: +49 421 200 3103 From nobody Fri Nov 28 09:17:35 2014 Return-Path: X-Original-To: netmod@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: netmod@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 654531A008D for ; Fri, 28 Nov 2014 09:17:33 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -0.661 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-0.661 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, HELO_EQ_CZ=0.445, HOST_EQ_CZ=0.904, T_RP_MATCHES_RCVD=-0.01] autolearn=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id gayeZconSZer for ; Fri, 28 Nov 2014 09:17:31 -0800 (PST) Received: from mail.nic.cz (mail.nic.cz [IPv6:2001:1488:800:400::400]) (using TLSv1 with cipher ADH-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 06BEC1A008A for ; Fri, 28 Nov 2014 09:17:30 -0800 (PST) Received: from [172.29.2.202] (unknown [77.48.225.14]) by mail.nic.cz (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 2B04813F6D7; Fri, 28 Nov 2014 18:17:28 +0100 (CET) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=simple/simple; d=nic.cz; s=default; t=1417195048; bh=VEgRhEctZb4pUOk7T0JxV81qtqbps7v6DBlqPJwmtds=; h=Content-Type:Mime-Version:Subject:From:In-Reply-To:Date:Cc: Content-Transfer-Encoding:Message-Id:References:To; b=C6LfsyU0VfUNMtYvTE4dqhA9B//Z2Y1caXUiWXSXGhr6Zx+z9aG551WJlKSEzSOzD SdnKjw7qcXzqdWW2dMtAz40fyz3cfSiO1kqzaQUBACbJyKQJjnfc8XvgYq3owKPqKx Fo8rik7J91wQEx7D4jUaXx279SMRRMuaEry7oMYM= Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 7.3 \(1878.6\)) From: Ladislav Lhotka In-Reply-To: Date: Fri, 28 Nov 2014 18:17:27 +0100 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Message-Id: <3114C5B5-7C06-4E51-B217-F66B1178E83E@nic.cz> References: <20141126154719.GA3633@elstar.local> <20141127203731.GB7837@elstar.local> To: Andy Bierman X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.1878.6) X-Virus-Scanned: clamav-milter 0.98.1 at mail X-Virus-Status: Clean Archived-At: http://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/netmod/Z3f5Q7s4YgVGpLfbpZ2Q4YXdxw4 Cc: "netmod@ietf.org" Subject: Re: [netmod] YANG 1.0 and 1.1 integration issues X-BeenThere: netmod@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: NETMOD WG list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 28 Nov 2014 17:17:33 -0000 On 28 Nov 2014, at 18:03, Andy Bierman wrote: > On Thu, Nov 27, 2014 at 12:37 PM, Juergen Schoenwaelder > wrote: >> On Thu, Nov 27, 2014 at 07:54:58AM -0800, Andy Bierman wrote: >>> On Wed, Nov 26, 2014 at 7:47 AM, Juergen Schoenwaelder >>> wrote: >>>> On Wed, Nov 26, 2014 at 07:28:57AM -0800, Andy Bierman wrote: >>>>>=20 >>>>> - All compliant YANG 1.0 modules must be accepted as compliant = YANG >>>>> 1.1 modules. >>>>>=20 >>>>> This bullet shows how little the WG thought about YANG 1.0 = co-existence. >>>>> At least we understand that no YANG 1.1 modules will be visible or = usable >>>>> by any YANG 1.0 tools. But does this bullet assume (like you) = that >>>>> all 1.0 modules will go away because they were all converted to = 1.1? >>>>>=20 >>>>=20 >>>> The bullet says that all YANG 1.0 modules remain valid with YANG = 1.1 >>>> and thus there is no need to say upgrade ietf-inet-types.yang. As >>>> usual, there may be corner cases where YANG 1.1 clarifies things = that >>>> were unclear in YANG 1.0 and hence for these cases the WG needs to >>>> make judgement calls. But the general direction is clear. >>>>=20 >>>> I consider it likely that clients that take full advantage of YANG >>>> (data model driven clients) will pick up YANG 1.1 quickly. If this >>>> assumption turns out to be correct, then I do not really see any >>>> problems. If servers pick up YANG 1.1 faster than data model driven >>>> clients, well then these servers will simply push clients to pick = up >>>> YANG 1.1 fast as well. And since clients are generally easier to >>>> upgrade, I am not worried about this either. >>>>=20 >>>> But yes, we need to be careful with adoting solutions for issues = that >>>> may cause difficulties on the upgrade path. But we need to consider >>>> this in the context of each issue separately (and I think we did in >>>> the past several times). If there are specific solutions where = people >>>> think this makes an upgrade difficult, please post the concerns = with a >>>> suitable subject line identifying the issue. >>>>=20 >>>=20 >>> I posted some specific issues. See first email on this thread. >>>=20 >>> It seems a YANG 1.0 integration plan is not needed because YANG 1.0 >>> will just go away instantly. I guess vendors will come up with = their >>> own plans if that doesn't work. >>=20 >> OK. I will go through the issues (as technical contributor). But then >> you also need to tell me what your goals of starting this thread >> are... >=20 >=20 > I want to understand how YANG 1.1 modules can be deployed > in a way that does not disturb any YANG 1.0 implementations. > I do not agree that the migration will be instant, or even fast. >=20 > I think you, Martin, and I are no the same page wrt/ updating YANG 1.0 This is no wonder because you both make a living by developing and = supporting management software. One can expect certain bias. :-) Lada > modules only when needed. They should continue to work even > if YANG 1.1 modules are added to the system. >=20 >=20 >=20 > Andy >=20 >=20 >>=20 >>> 1) The YANG 1.0 clients are expected to continue using YANG 1.0 >>> modules and ignore all YANG 1.1 modules. Is a YANG 1.0 client >>> supposed to have a complete API such that all interactions >>> between 1.0 data models and 1.1 data models can be ignored? >>=20 >> Yes. >>=20 >>> 2) It is clearly an error if a 1.0 module imports a 1.1 module, or a = 1.0 >>> submodule includes a 1.1 submodule, but what about 1.1 using 1.0? >>> Does the server enforce 1.0 rules for the imported modules and >>> included submodules (within the 1.1 context), or does the compiler >>> promote them and use 1.1 rules for the 1.0 modules/submodules? >>=20 >> It should be fine for a 1.1 module to import a 1.0 module. I do not >> see how an import would change the interpretation of a 1.0 module. If >> you specific examples where this is not the case, bring them up. >>=20 >>> 3) What happens if a 1.1 module augments definitions in a 1.0 = module? >>> Is this allowed? This will look like unknown anyxml to 1.0 clients, >>> since they are unaware of the unadvertised 1.1 modules (and cannot >>> read YANG 1.1 anyway). Is this the integration plan for augments? >>=20 >> Yes, this is allowed. The 1.0 client will not understand the >> augmenting data model. We have the same with anyxml or in NETCONF in >> general if different schema languages are used. >>=20 >>> 4) In order to convert 1 YANG 1.0 module to 1.1, all the modules >>> that import it have to be updated as well, then all the modules that >>> import those modules, etc. Even if this is done, conversion will >>> break any 1.0 client that used that module. How is the IETF >>> (or anybody with YANG 1.0 modules) supposed to build on the >>> existing module library and switch to YANG 1.1? Seems like there >>> will need to be a flag day where all tools, clients, servers, and >>> modules are converted at once. >>=20 >> I do not think we need a flag day. Whether a module is updated = depends >> on the nature of the modules (there is no immediate benefit of >> updating lets say ietf-inet-types.yang to YANG 1.1), it depends how >> fast YANG 1.1 clients are deployed, and of course on product specific >> decisions. I assume for most of the existing YANG 1.0 instrumentation >> code, the upgrade from a YANG 1.0 definition to a YANG 1.1 definition >> is a noop. >>=20 >> /js >>=20 >> -- >> Juergen Schoenwaelder Jacobs University Bremen gGmbH >> Phone: +49 421 200 3587 Campus Ring 1, 28759 Bremen, Germany >> Fax: +49 421 200 3103 -- Ladislav Lhotka, CZ.NIC Labs PGP Key ID: E74E8C0C From nobody Sun Nov 30 08:46:01 2014 Return-Path: X-Original-To: netmod@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: netmod@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2FB201A0469 for ; Sun, 30 Nov 2014 08:45:59 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.979 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.979 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, FM_FORGED_GMAIL=0.622, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW=-0.7, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id UicmPsd-Au4n for ; Sun, 30 Nov 2014 08:45:57 -0800 (PST) Received: from mail-qg0-f51.google.com (mail-qg0-f51.google.com [209.85.192.51]) (using TLSv1 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-RC4-SHA (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 21AE91A1A06 for ; Sun, 30 Nov 2014 08:45:57 -0800 (PST) Received: by mail-qg0-f51.google.com with SMTP id l89so6413764qgf.38 for ; Sun, 30 Nov 2014 08:45:56 -0800 (PST) X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20130820; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:in-reply-to:references:date :message-id:subject:from:to:cc:content-type :content-transfer-encoding; bh=c/g89hg2rIQZuqA4AO63gKSpp2CDB6Gzae/iUBHOpCc=; b=cLPJ6Cf/bvP8ja9ukvrbzdIlO8dUUkxoWm24tuOaYIIkFHjaKU8L/DLdKSKfEhqrhx oRiiuLXQeb4D3cxsb+kwDqeC033KvrJ0CVlpGI+QqcETuJqxrn14qTCFp7j2gBUXWwDk hmZpvHxGphR0ADLeR1y8w2MPK1CZSKcwLOeZKXo6HqGmJB1OsIFORj+knRgKLOq26tDE HVRcdhuIW9GKPZKTlzVOJovQMx/uxKV5dcrBHh13OoNTeq8XzCVmvTDu5Ml1Oyv1DjJf RLPlOMsLHYvpqgDvqgD/HQqhC+EiVcC8uRJeDQbqt4Rx4ELUEQCFu4jGk6nStiuExoVX pUNg== X-Gm-Message-State: ALoCoQl7y3n6u/T1FHF/wOEZ1C+yJDw5JtW54Pm5AFIhX6/DqIRAIBsqFcpBaeS92sEQVcTlcG3S MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Received: by 10.224.37.67 with SMTP id w3mr80990577qad.88.1417365956194; Sun, 30 Nov 2014 08:45:56 -0800 (PST) Received: by 10.140.37.52 with HTTP; Sun, 30 Nov 2014 08:45:56 -0800 (PST) In-Reply-To: <1307F092-152A-487F-A5C8-8DE449A0015D@nic.cz> References: <20141128133157.7808.83054.idtracker@ietfa.amsl.com> <1307F092-152A-487F-A5C8-8DE449A0015D@nic.cz> Date: Sun, 30 Nov 2014 08:45:56 -0800 Message-ID: From: Andy Bierman To: Ladislav Lhotka Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Archived-At: http://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/netmod/YSBidDsfAToekSgGIfzL_XhOHbI Cc: NETMOD Working Group Subject: Re: [netmod] Fwd: New Version Notification for draft-lhotka-netmod-yang-annotations-00.txt X-BeenThere: netmod@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: NETMOD WG list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sun, 30 Nov 2014 16:45:59 -0000 Hi, This draft defines 2 annotations: "inactive" and "type". I am strongly opposed to the "inactive" annotation. The "Conditional Enablement" draft by Kent Watsen should be used for this purpose. This topic is more complicated than just defining an "inactive" flag. The "type" annotation seems useless because the YANG parser decides what internal type gets assigned to a union. Sending the types inside the instance document is normally only done if there is no schema. Andy On Fri, Nov 28, 2014 at 5:36 AM, Ladislav Lhotka wrote: > Hi, > > this draft contains the module =E2=80=9Cietf-yang-annotations=E2=80=9D th= at is intended to contain definitions of generally useful metadata annotati= ons. I included two annotations that I think might be handy. If you know ab= out others, please let me know. > > Thanks, Lada > > Begin forwarded message: > >> From: internet-drafts@ietf.org >> Subject: New Version Notification for draft-lhotka-netmod-yang-annotatio= ns-00.txt >> Date: 28 Nov 2014 14:31:57 GMT+1 >> To: Ladislav Lhotka , "Ladislav Lhotka" >> >> >> A new version of I-D, draft-lhotka-netmod-yang-annotations-00.txt >> has been successfully submitted by Ladislav Lhotka and posted to the >> IETF repository. >> >> Name: draft-lhotka-netmod-yang-annotations >> Revision: 00 >> Title: Common Metadata Annotations for Data Modelled with= YANG >> Document date: 2014-11-28 >> Group: Individual Submission >> Pages: 9 >> URL: http://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-lhotka-netmod-= yang-annotations-00.txt >> Status: https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-lhotka-netmod-yan= g-annotations/ >> Htmlized: http://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-lhotka-netmod-yang-anno= tations-00 >> >> >> Abstract: >> This document introduces a collection of common metadata annotations >> intended for use in data modeled with the YANG language. >> >> >> >> >> Please note that it may take a couple of minutes from the time of submis= sion >> until the htmlized version and diff are available at tools.ietf.org. >> >> The IETF Secretariat >> > > -- > Ladislav Lhotka, CZ.NIC Labs > PGP Key ID: E74E8C0C > > > > > _______________________________________________ > netmod mailing list > netmod@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/netmod