From nobody Mon Jul 3 10:44:36 2017 Return-Path: X-Original-To: netmod@ietf.org Delivered-To: netmod@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from ietfa.amsl.com (localhost [IPv6:::1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 53055131612; Mon, 3 Jul 2017 10:44:35 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: internet-drafts@ietf.org To: Cc: netmod@ietf.org X-Test-IDTracker: no X-IETF-IDTracker: 6.55.2 Auto-Submitted: auto-generated Precedence: bulk Message-ID: <149910387529.22743.16241035171018203968@ietfa.amsl.com> Date: Mon, 03 Jul 2017 10:44:35 -0700 Archived-At: Subject: [netmod] I-D Action: draft-ietf-netmod-revised-datastores-03.txt X-BeenThere: netmod@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 List-Id: NETMOD WG list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 03 Jul 2017 17:44:35 -0000 A New Internet-Draft is available from the on-line Internet-Drafts directories. This draft is a work item of the NETCONF Data Modeling Language of the IETF. Title : Network Management Datastore Architecture Authors : Martin Bjorklund Juergen Schoenwaelder Phil Shafer Kent Watsen Robert Wilton Filename : draft-ietf-netmod-revised-datastores-03.txt Pages : 35 Date : 2017-07-03 Abstract: Datastores are a fundamental concept binding the data models written in the YANG data modeling language to network management protocols such as NETCONF and RESTCONF. This document defines an architectural framework for datastores based on the experience gained with the initial simpler model, addressing requirements that were not well supported in the initial model. The IETF datatracker status page for this draft is: https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-netmod-revised-datastores/ There are also htmlized versions available at: https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-netmod-revised-datastores-03 https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/html/draft-ietf-netmod-revised-datastores-03 A diff from the previous version is available at: https://www.ietf.org/rfcdiff?url2=draft-ietf-netmod-revised-datastores-03 Please note that it may take a couple of minutes from the time of submission until the htmlized version and diff are available at tools.ietf.org. Internet-Drafts are also available by anonymous FTP at: ftp://ftp.ietf.org/internet-drafts/ From nobody Mon Jul 3 11:23:32 2017 Return-Path: X-Original-To: netmod@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: netmod@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9D9941316DC for ; Mon, 3 Jul 2017 11:23:30 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.599 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.599 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW=-0.7, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=yumaworks-com.20150623.gappssmtp.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id dR6LPC6mntEN for ; Mon, 3 Jul 2017 11:23:28 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail-wm0-x22f.google.com (mail-wm0-x22f.google.com [IPv6:2a00:1450:400c:c09::22f]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 6E4E91298BA for ; Mon, 3 Jul 2017 11:23:28 -0700 (PDT) Received: by mail-wm0-x22f.google.com with SMTP id w126so175796942wme.0 for ; Mon, 03 Jul 2017 11:23:28 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=yumaworks-com.20150623.gappssmtp.com; s=20150623; h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:from:date:message-id:subject:to; bh=ibUF34XdGEK1QVVBsGa03tH1ObtTTwW0rGnG7hz1wIc=; b=hF8dTTQ2Ujn4X5JrxN6kwqpVk547CTwCjOE0pmP+iSBvKdKpXteS1aTDRUjueCaXG8 Gmwbn0yDPaKM9LvgmG8CaeI+VXiZxG4CmvpGAIodhIh13UVS6ryaq2m/ktH72QFLSv04 kUFUxM15Jimx54fzwbwwhv7IbhbLECEn0RNHpL0Pq6g9inlOuyAdo9ZPW+F6r5fEquxT +0xV8yW2qwKNN9288u0RTn+go98x3wI0e1iEohr+wVQwyvS31wN43EVV05n04V9yoZxv FP6wt1EUWovzkrbvNEVY0opkmIpJdCABVnowhMi1O56O5s6braKy1l3hYr/APwmO7/mC 91pQ== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:in-reply-to:references:from:date :message-id:subject:to; bh=ibUF34XdGEK1QVVBsGa03tH1ObtTTwW0rGnG7hz1wIc=; b=jEcbFQy7NvaNHUlbGhPbhX+TNnN+T7YON3DHokHrRSZ8SzULbUrus1iJyfkwinbCDX uP5c2eC0qVfahMlIC6ariRXTQJ2Yk+u04ig9ntmg2ADW8oh1vSDZwsmeJgt6AyxCeBsC OkkVuJNQB7ol1sKeU2WQUfmbsmEp3C3V1n8lXdMpFhABbcMdgS238sRx6ZK0nhDO768E ZRYWFbNyGZKdo9GrRUxa5IQnL4EJxgnTkRJbz0/G5wNUQa4kKeIIVIgBaNXbgJOPpq01 cYaf5qEPgp1Ub64XbzVbyTLWKYtOE6hTVXrtdlFTJWGELUlK6gpgXG3TGU6Vwgqv6so2 P9QQ== X-Gm-Message-State: AKS2vOw6u+lSpmSjDNGyoTnhOGiN5FcJqcTL8EL9Ty0nbCAj2muPJA9/ bkkqjc6ziEZ7+FSnr8JNWeA3qEJKysvl X-Received: by 10.28.46.132 with SMTP id u126mr16844586wmu.48.1499106206683; Mon, 03 Jul 2017 11:23:26 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.223.152.196 with HTTP; Mon, 3 Jul 2017 11:23:26 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: <149910597061.22750.11902945585022691758@ietfa.amsl.com> References: <149910597061.22750.11902945585022691758@ietfa.amsl.com> From: Andy Bierman Date: Mon, 3 Jul 2017 11:23:26 -0700 Message-ID: To: "netmod@ietf.org" Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="001a11422830ee451805536ddc81" Archived-At: Subject: [netmod] Fwd: I-D Action: draft-bierman-netmod-yang-data-ext-00.txt X-BeenThere: netmod@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 Precedence: list List-Id: NETMOD WG list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 03 Jul 2017 18:23:30 -0000 --001a11422830ee451805536ddc81 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Hi, This draft defines a YANG extension called augment-yang-data that is used to augment conceptual data defined with the RESTCONF yang-data extension. Andy ---------- Forwarded message ---------- From: Date: Mon, Jul 3, 2017 at 11:19 AM Subject: I-D Action: draft-bierman-netmod-yang-data-ext-00.txt To: i-d-announce@ietf.org A New Internet-Draft is available from the on-line Internet-Drafts directories. Title : YANG Data Extensions Author : Andy Bierman Filename : draft-bierman-netmod-yang-data-ext-00.txt Pages : 7 Date : 2017-07-03 Abstract: This document describes YANG mechanisms for extending the utility of the 'yang-data' extension statement defined in RFC 8040. The IETF datatracker status page for this draft is: https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-bierman-netmod-yang-data-ext/ There are also htmlized versions available at: https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-bierman-netmod-yang-data-ext-00 https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/html/draft-bierman-netmod-yang-data-ext-00 Please note that it may take a couple of minutes from the time of submission until the htmlized version and diff are available at tools.ietf.org. Internet-Drafts are also available by anonymous FTP at: ftp://ftp.ietf.org/internet-drafts/ _______________________________________________ I-D-Announce mailing list I-D-Announce@ietf.org https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/i-d-announce Internet-Draft directories: http://www.ietf.org/shadow.html or ftp://ftp.ietf.org/ietf/1shadow-sites.txt --001a11422830ee451805536ddc81 Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Hi,

This draft defines a YANG extension= called augment-yang-data that is used to augment
conceptual data= defined with the RESTCONF yang-data extension.

Andy

---------- Forwa= rded message ----------
From: <internet-drafts@= ietf.org>
Date: Mon, Jul 3, 2017 at 11:19 AM
Subject: I= -D Action: draft-bierman-netmod-yang-data-ext-00.txt
To: i-d-announce@ietf.org



A New Internet-Draft is available from the on-line Internet-Drafts director= ies.


=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 Title=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0:= YANG Data Extensions
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 Author=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 : Andy= Bierman
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 Filename=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 : draft-bie= rman-netmod-yang-data-ext-00.txt
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 Pages=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0:= 7
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 Date=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 := 2017-07-03

Abstract:
=C2=A0 =C2=A0This document describes YANG mechanisms for extending the util= ity of
=C2=A0 =C2=A0the 'yang-data' extension statement defined in RFC 804= 0.


The IETF datatracker status page for this draft is:
https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-bierman-netmod-yang-data-ext/

There are also htmlized versions available at:
https://tools.ietf.org/html/dr= aft-bierman-netmod-yang-data-ext-00
https://datatracker.ietf.= org/doc/html/draft-bierman-netmod-yang-data-ext-00


Please note that it may take a couple of minutes from the time of submissio= n
until the htmlized version and diff are available at tools.ietf.org.

Internet-Drafts are also available by anonymous FTP at:
ftp://ftp.ietf.org/internet-drafts/

_______________________________________________
I-D-Announce mailing list
I-D-Announce@ietf.org
https://www.ietf.org/m= ailman/listinfo/i-d-announce
Internet-Draft directories: http://www.ietf.org/shadow.html<= /a>
or ftp://ftp.ietf.org/ietf/1shadow-sites.txt

--001a11422830ee451805536ddc81-- From nobody Mon Jul 3 13:59:55 2017 Return-Path: X-Original-To: netmod@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: netmod@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id A9870128B4E for ; Mon, 3 Jul 2017 13:59:54 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -14.502 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-14.502 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_HI=-5, RP_MATCHES_RCVD=-0.001, SPF_HELO_PASS=-0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001, USER_IN_DEF_DKIM_WL=-7.5] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (1024-bit key) header.d=cisco.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id Kpvuf2K5xHzE for ; Mon, 3 Jul 2017 13:59:53 -0700 (PDT) Received: from aer-iport-2.cisco.com (aer-iport-2.cisco.com [173.38.203.52]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher DHE-RSA-SEED-SHA (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id E1368126B72 for ; Mon, 3 Jul 2017 13:59:52 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/simple; d=cisco.com; i=@cisco.com; l=710; q=dns/txt; s=iport; t=1499115592; x=1500325192; h=to:cc:from:subject:message-id:date:mime-version: content-transfer-encoding; bh=q7SjMD5/22ZTPE0fz1MP3KJIVbvkATphAvSnlUG/29E=; b=RUh4ZBw1tILIQhRI+qLqe/Q7Nk2B9e3LTk2jdMy26CFLkIlsTxTk+Cf6 xojJlV9n428wYmbRrLUupeClvbWvQFpjYdexDGSYyuH85d7bNSB5YkeEe rtKBtjyRUMzV6RqibANe4I6x83lpka+a0Vy1lSuThSoS+xahnAojfxptu 8=; X-IronPort-AV: E=Sophos;i="5.40,305,1496102400"; d="scan'208";a="653004814" Received: from aer-iport-nat.cisco.com (HELO aer-core-3.cisco.com) ([173.38.203.22]) by aer-iport-2.cisco.com with ESMTP/TLS/DHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384; 03 Jul 2017 20:59:51 +0000 Received: from [10.55.221.38] (ams-bclaise-nitro5.cisco.com [10.55.221.38]) by aer-core-3.cisco.com (8.14.5/8.14.5) with ESMTP id v63KxpZx006175; Mon, 3 Jul 2017 20:59:51 GMT To: NETMOD Working Group Cc: "Joe Clarke (jclarke)" From: Benoit Claise Message-ID: <3ccf94c2-2a45-e92b-7b89-b7bd02e1f353@cisco.com> Date: Mon, 3 Jul 2017 22:59:50 +0200 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 6.1; WOW64; rv:52.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/52.2.1 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Language: en-US Archived-At: Subject: [netmod] YANG module for yangcatalog.org X-BeenThere: netmod@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 Precedence: list List-Id: NETMOD WG list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 03 Jul 2017 20:59:54 -0000 Dear all, Here is the YANG module behind the yangcatalog.org. See https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-clacla-netmod-model-catalog/ While implementing the catalog and tools at yangcatalog.org, we initially looked at the "Catalog and registry for YANG models" [I-D.openconfig-netmod-model-catalog] as a starting point but we quickly realized that the objectives were different. In the draft, we documented our experience, based on our implementation. This YANG module will generate APIs to populate the catalog (work to be validated during the IETF hackathon). We expect this document to be a living document, as the YANG catalog functionality and code evolve. Regards, Joe and Benoit From nobody Mon Jul 3 15:02:42 2017 Return-Path: X-Original-To: netmod@ietf.org Delivered-To: netmod@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from ietfa.amsl.com (localhost [IPv6:::1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5F6A812EC44; Mon, 3 Jul 2017 15:02:40 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: internet-drafts@ietf.org To: Cc: netmod@ietf.org X-Test-IDTracker: no X-IETF-IDTracker: 6.55.2 Auto-Submitted: auto-generated Precedence: bulk Message-ID: <149911936036.16124.7040704366349342881@ietfa.amsl.com> Date: Mon, 03 Jul 2017 15:02:40 -0700 Archived-At: Subject: [netmod] I-D Action: draft-ietf-netmod-intf-ext-yang-05.txt X-BeenThere: netmod@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 List-Id: NETMOD WG list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 03 Jul 2017 22:02:40 -0000 A New Internet-Draft is available from the on-line Internet-Drafts directories. This draft is a work item of the NETCONF Data Modeling Language of the IETF. Title : Common Interface Extension YANG Data Models Authors : Robert Wilton David Ball Tapraj Singh Selvakumar Sivaraj Filename : draft-ietf-netmod-intf-ext-yang-05.txt Pages : 27 Date : 2017-07-03 Abstract: This document defines two YANG modules that augment the Interfaces data model defined in the "YANG Data Model for Interface Management" with additional configuration and operational data nodes to support common lower layer interface properties, such as interface MTU. These properties are common to many types of interfaces on network routers and switches and are implemented by multiple network equipment vendors with similar semantics, even though some of the features are not formally defined in any published standard. The IETF datatracker status page for this draft is: https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-netmod-intf-ext-yang/ There are also htmlized versions available at: https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-netmod-intf-ext-yang-05 https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/html/draft-ietf-netmod-intf-ext-yang-05 A diff from the previous version is available at: https://www.ietf.org/rfcdiff?url2=draft-ietf-netmod-intf-ext-yang-05 Please note that it may take a couple of minutes from the time of submission until the htmlized version and diff are available at tools.ietf.org. Internet-Drafts are also available by anonymous FTP at: ftp://ftp.ietf.org/internet-drafts/ From nobody Mon Jul 3 15:37:04 2017 Return-Path: X-Original-To: netmod@ietf.org Delivered-To: netmod@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from ietfa.amsl.com (localhost [IPv6:::1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 826F213161E; Mon, 3 Jul 2017 15:37:03 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: internet-drafts@ietf.org To: Cc: netmod@ietf.org X-Test-IDTracker: no X-IETF-IDTracker: 6.55.2 Auto-Submitted: auto-generated Precedence: bulk Message-ID: <149912142350.16196.12175330730641196369@ietfa.amsl.com> Date: Mon, 03 Jul 2017 15:37:03 -0700 Archived-At: Subject: [netmod] I-D Action: draft-ietf-netmod-sub-intf-vlan-model-02.txt X-BeenThere: netmod@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 List-Id: NETMOD WG list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 03 Jul 2017 22:37:03 -0000 A New Internet-Draft is available from the on-line Internet-Drafts directories. This draft is a work item of the NETCONF Data Modeling Language of the IETF. Title : Sub-interface VLAN YANG Data Models Authors : Robert Wilton David Ball Tapraj Singh Selvakumar Sivaraj Filename : draft-ietf-netmod-sub-intf-vlan-model-02.txt Pages : 28 Date : 2017-07-03 Abstract: This document defines YANG modules to add support for classifying traffic received on interfaces as Ethernet/VLAN framed packets to sub-interfaces based on the fields available in the Ethernet/VLAN frame headers. These modules allow configuration of Layer 3 and Layer 2 sub-interfaces (e.g. attachment circuits) that can interoperate with IETF based forwarding protocols; such as IP and L3VPN services; or L2VPN services like VPWS, VPLS, and EVPN. The sub-interfaces also interoperate with VLAN tagged traffic orginating from an IEEE 802.1Q compliant bridge. Primarily the classification is based on VLAN identifiers in the 802.1Q VLAN tags, but the model also has support for matching on some other layer 2 frame header fields and is designed to be extensible to match on other arbitrary header fields. The model differs from an IEEE 802.1Q bridge model in that the configuration is interface/sub-interface based as opposed to being based on membership of an 802.1Q VLAN bridge. The IETF datatracker status page for this draft is: https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-netmod-sub-intf-vlan-model/ There are also htmlized versions available at: https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-netmod-sub-intf-vlan-model-02 https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/html/draft-ietf-netmod-sub-intf-vlan-model-02 A diff from the previous version is available at: https://www.ietf.org/rfcdiff?url2=draft-ietf-netmod-sub-intf-vlan-model-02 Please note that it may take a couple of minutes from the time of submission until the htmlized version and diff are available at tools.ietf.org. Internet-Drafts are also available by anonymous FTP at: ftp://ftp.ietf.org/internet-drafts/ From nobody Tue Jul 4 09:55:40 2017 Return-Path: X-Original-To: netmod@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: netmod@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 056201323D0 for ; Tue, 4 Jul 2017 09:55:39 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.999 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.999 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=gmail.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id CMEoVCYedRHw for ; Tue, 4 Jul 2017 09:55:36 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail-wr0-x229.google.com (mail-wr0-x229.google.com [IPv6:2a00:1450:400c:c0c::229]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 721091323D1 for ; Tue, 4 Jul 2017 09:55:36 -0700 (PDT) Received: by mail-wr0-x229.google.com with SMTP id c11so251914481wrc.3 for ; Tue, 04 Jul 2017 09:55:36 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20161025; h=from:mime-version:subject:message-id:date:cc:to; bh=EjA9QyN3ONygplDRxlDs52f9XhCqqtESVi/IhtX18Bo=; b=c/AKSM9OYhivcuYNLJaAso86+ZTfLjcYi59SRUd1PB8zN5VMTBJ5qNA4F0qiSRdJ5a rm+xSpuiHqu4xyELwF5JDioPbSZAmjjWKoFOpiUyrhxyIqPnVAl6ujs18rqb9qiv9sYO 4cKVKFMiLTAajDSovBEICZ/GLy7UjUbD4LycIpc7+6LiPA4lF1pU8d1Oa2By4NRR7NsV MpgGQ4qDyBYLxdIYjeg3h0XK7d9KI5i0xCuWZuCx7p+KPzCwM7ujlyUpbxE1oM+uCf/g PZrh/NIIRf6z1JGz25mUI+3J6BWj/ADHD6df0SBMJfBFC66i+IevUpPGYE8vCwWA7SVb tqEQ== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:from:mime-version:subject:message-id:date:cc:to; bh=EjA9QyN3ONygplDRxlDs52f9XhCqqtESVi/IhtX18Bo=; b=Vb4aBTitrz3DTCqIRcTjHXeaa4I/nctYHHSMp2E7IPbOC+4i6pVowWrMvFOV1GmWT4 vr6A6KUOJWN+bgGa7OKLMhqiy5uknNh54FtM5aoFlKHnv0OW4Uer9e0rXE1XvMW8UP78 6dEr9mZcgeDK/Ch5wwUP9oyguYjh2zq4ede1HbQb53E3PU+IiwfEArJqKB6G08oVrCP6 n9p1rEPxOnqoDzwuK+EOk281EsNKuRmk9lszH9psO6mIsZjrStXxj5S5qbPBTs5Q/Bnp ehoFWK6yFNpyXMwEST8ah3eINdyiIpacimwfMpeOHII3NYYkNiOvWVF+Qrcb7o4VV3wV NeUw== X-Gm-Message-State: AKS2vOyqKKlojIu9aKVDRTA2sxA1pAnb39aYjyfXdO2KjVyGBxPY/WHT ERRkUii8X4EDG/7FUho= X-Received: by 10.223.151.216 with SMTP id t24mr37059871wrb.40.1499187334560; Tue, 04 Jul 2017 09:55:34 -0700 (PDT) Received: from ams-giheron-nitro4.cisco.com ([173.38.220.44]) by smtp.gmail.com with ESMTPSA id u18sm16851331wrc.14.2017.07.04.09.55.32 (version=TLS1_2 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 bits=128/128); Tue, 04 Jul 2017 09:55:33 -0700 (PDT) From: Giles Heron Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="Apple-Mail=_2E2DF03A-4EB3-4137-964B-CCAA96BC975C" Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 10.3 \(3273\)) Message-Id: <26565F78-A061-4CDE-B7AF-DA1B1073C746@gmail.com> Date: Tue, 4 Jul 2017 17:55:31 +0100 Cc: Anton Ivanov , Tom Nadeau , David Spence , ssaxena@brocade.com To: NetMod WG X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.3273) Archived-At: Subject: [netmod] comments on draft-yang-json-rpc-00 X-BeenThere: netmod@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 Precedence: list List-Id: NETMOD WG list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 04 Jul 2017 16:55:39 -0000 --Apple-Mail=_2E2DF03A-4EB3-4137-964B-CCAA96BC975C Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Hi Authors, some quick comments on your draft. meta-comments: 1) shouldn=E2=80=99t this be in the NETMOD WG and be named = =E2=80=9Cdraft-netmod-yang-json-rpc-00=E2=80=9D once adopted, and = =E2=80=9Cdraft-issn-yang-json-rpc-00=E2=80=9D (or whatever) for now? = Posting these comments to NETMOD at any rate :) 2) why does each page have a number 0 at the top? 3) might be worth adding a security section and some IANA considerations = (even if there are no actions required from IANA) Section 1: 4) s/ZMQ/0MQ (ref can still be [ZEROMQ]) 5) s/RabbitMQ/AMQP (ref can still be [RABBITMQ]) 6) you say JSON RPC 2.0 has a number of well known shortcomings. = Aren=E2=80=99t there really just the two - no means of = describing/documenting an API method and no means to interpret data and = to generate structures to receive the data? or is that three? ;) I = almost wonder if bullets are the answer here. 7) s/lead/led in =E2=80=9Cthis has lead them=E2=80=9D 8) I think it should be =E2=80=9Cand/or use=E2=80=9D not =E2=80=9Cand/or = the use of=E2=80=9D 9) isn=E2=80=99t =E2=80=9Cnot portable across languages=E2=80=9D = basically the same as =E2=80=9Cbreak the core assumption of JSON being a = language agnostic interchange format=E2=80=9D? 10) is it really a core assumption that JSON is language agnostic? = Given the JS in its name i mean=E2=80=A6 11) you reference the "JSON Encoding of Data Modeled with YANG=E2=80=9D = draft. That=E2=80=99s RFC7951 :) Section 2: 12) maybe it=E2=80=99s time to move to YANG 1.1 (RFC 7950) 13) do you need to use square brackets each time you refer to a doc? = I=E2=80=99d just do it the first time and use the name thereafter. Section 3: 14) s/yang/YANG 15) where you have links to sections of RFCs I=E2=80=99d keep the link = to the section separate from any link to the whole RFC. 16) where referring to an RFC outside of square brackets I think the = correct style is to have a space between =E2=80=9CRFC=E2=80=9D and the = RFC number. 17) might be worth explaining why use of must, when, leafref and = identityref can harm interoperability. 18) also might be worth enumerating the characters to be discouraged. 19) it=E2=80=99s probably worth breaking the input and output for the = RPC out as separate sub-sections rather than having the input in the = main part of section 3 and the output as one sub-section of section 3.4 20) it=E2=80=99s probably worth explaining that figure 3 is the = positional form and figure 4 is named. You do that later on so not to = do it for your first example is somewhat confusing. 21) it=E2=80=99s probably also worth explaining that the mappings for = the positional form are a difference wrt RFC7951 (since YANG-modelled = data is always carried in named form when mapped into XML or JSON). Section 3.2: 22) link missing under 7.13.3 Section 3.3: 23) from my understanding of YANG extensions you need to write a YANG = model for idl and publish that. 24) seems you=E2=80=99ve actually defined two extensions here - = idl:value-type and idl:implemented-by Section 3.4: 25) the output rules seem to conflict with the input rules re lists (one = reason why I think separating those out into separate subsections makes = sense) Section 3.4.1: 26) I=E2=80=99m not sure having {=E2=80=9Ckey=E2=80=9D : =E2=80=9Cvalue=E2= =80=9D} is a good example for anyxml in that it tends to imply you have = a model somewhere and know the keys? The same occurs in Fig 23 (sec = 3.4.3) Section 3.4.3: 27) in fig 26 I think the result should be =E2=80=9Cobject=E2=80=9D, not = =E2=80=9Ctest-object=E2=80=9D? Section 3.6: 28) I think this is section 6.11 not 6.1 of RFC7951? 29) worth explaining why the representation doesn=E2=80=99t match JSON = semantics 30) is this YANG path stuff equivalent to the actions in YANG 1.1? Section 3.6.1: 31) please define QName Section 3.6.3: 32) please delete the word =E2=80=9Csection=E2=80=9D after =E2=80=9CSectio= n 3.6.1" Section 4: 33) the Zero MQ and JSON RPC refs seem to be back to front 34) you=E2=80=99ve got PJZMQ pointing at www.jabsorb.org = --Apple-Mail=_2E2DF03A-4EB3-4137-964B-CCAA96BC975C Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/html; charset=utf-8
Hi Authors,

some quick comments on your = draft.


meta-comments:

1) shouldn=E2=80=99t this be in the = NETMOD WG and be named =E2=80=9Cdraft-netmod-yang-json-rpc-00=E2=80=9D = once adopted, and =E2=80=9Cdraft-issn-yang-json-rpc-00=E2=80=9D (or = whatever) for now?   Posting these comments to NETMOD at any rate = :)

2) why does = each page have a number 0 at the top?

3) might be worth adding a security = section and some IANA considerations (even if there are no actions = required from IANA)


Section 1:

4) s/ZMQ/0MQ (ref can = still be [ZEROMQ])

5) s/RabbitMQ/AMQP (ref can still be [RABBITMQ])

6) you say JSON RPC 2.0 = has a number of well known shortcomings.  Aren=E2=80=99t there = really just the two - no means of describing/documenting an API method = and no means to interpret data and to generate structures to receive the = data?   or is that three? ;)  I almost wonder if bullets are = the answer here.

7) s/lead/led in =E2=80=9Cthis has lead them=E2=80=9D

8) I think it should be = =E2=80=9Cand/or use=E2=80=9D not =E2=80=9Cand/or the use of=E2=80=9D
=

9) isn=E2=80=99t = =E2=80=9Cnot portable across languages=E2=80=9D basically the same as = =E2=80=9Cbreak the core assumption of JSON being a language agnostic = interchange format=E2=80=9D?

10) is it really a core assumption that = JSON is language agnostic?  Given the JS in its name i = mean=E2=80=A6

11) you reference the "JSON Encoding of Data Modeled with = YANG=E2=80=9D draft.  That=E2=80=99s RFC7951 :)


Section 2:

12) maybe it=E2=80=99s time to move to YANG 1.1 (RFC = 7950)

13) do = you need to use square brackets each time you refer to a doc? I=E2=80=99d = just do it the first time and use the name thereafter.


Section 3:

14) s/yang/YANG

15) where you have links to sections of RFCs I=E2=80=99d keep = the link to the section separate from any link to the whole = RFC.

16) where = referring to an RFC outside of square brackets I think the correct style = is to have a space between =E2=80=9CRFC=E2=80=9D and the RFC = number.

17) = might be worth explaining why use of must, when, leafref and identityref = can harm interoperability.

18) also might be worth enumerating the characters to be = discouraged.

19)= it=E2=80=99s probably worth breaking the input and output for the RPC = out as separate sub-sections rather than having the input in the main = part of section 3 and the output as one sub-section of section = 3.4

20) it=E2=80= =99s probably worth explaining that figure 3 is the positional form and = figure 4 is named.   You do that later on so not to do it for your = first example is somewhat confusing.

21) it=E2=80=99s probably also worth = explaining that the mappings for the positional form are a difference = wrt RFC7951 (since YANG-modelled data is always carried in named form = when mapped into XML or JSON).


Section 3.2:

22) link missing under 7.13.3


Section 3.3:

23) from my understanding of YANG extensions you need to = write a YANG model for idl and publish that.

24) seems you=E2=80=99ve actually = defined two extensions here - idl:value-type and = idl:implemented-by


Section 3.4:

25) the output rules = seem to conflict with the input rules re lists (one reason why I think = separating those out into separate subsections makes sense)


Section 3.4.1:

26) I=E2=80=99m not sure having {=E2=80=9Ckey=E2=80=9D : = =E2=80=9Cvalue=E2=80=9D} is a good example for anyxml in that it tends = to imply you have a model somewhere and know the keys?  The same = occurs in Fig 23 (sec 3.4.3)


Section 3.4.3:

27) in fig 26 I think the result should be =E2=80=9Cobject=E2=80= =9D, not =E2=80=9Ctest-object=E2=80=9D?


Section 3.6:

28) I think this is section 6.11 not 6.1 of = RFC7951?

29) = worth explaining why the representation doesn=E2=80=99t match JSON = semantics

30) = is this YANG path stuff equivalent to the actions in YANG 1.1?


Section 3.6.1:

31) please define QName


Section 3.6.3:

32) please delete the word =E2=80=9Csection=E2=80=9D after = =E2=80=9CSection 3.6.1"


Section 4:

33) the Zero MQ and JSON = RPC refs seem to be back to front

34) you=E2=80=99ve got PJZMQ pointing = at www.jabsorb.org






= --Apple-Mail=_2E2DF03A-4EB3-4137-964B-CCAA96BC975C-- From nobody Tue Jul 4 10:14:27 2017 Return-Path: X-Original-To: netmod@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: netmod@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4141C132498 for ; Tue, 4 Jul 2017 10:14:26 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.9 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.9 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 8XC75_L0M3JD for ; Tue, 4 Jul 2017 10:14:22 -0700 (PDT) Received: from www.kot-begemot.co.uk (ivanoab5.miniserver.com [78.31.111.25]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 6E61913249D for ; Tue, 4 Jul 2017 10:14:19 -0700 (PDT) Received: from tun5.smaug.kot-begemot.co.uk ([192.168.18.6] helo=smaug.kot-begemot.co.uk) by www.kot-begemot.co.uk with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1dSROt-000146-1S; Tue, 04 Jul 2017 17:14:11 +0000 Received: from monstrousnightmare.kot-begemot.co.uk ([192.168.3.80]) by smaug.kot-begemot.co.uk with esmtp (Exim 4.89) (envelope-from ) id 1dSROs-0006ey-Lz; Tue, 04 Jul 2017 18:14:10 +0100 To: Giles Heron , NetMod WG References: <26565F78-A061-4CDE-B7AF-DA1B1073C746@gmail.com> Cc: Tom Nadeau , David Spence , ssaxena@brocade.com From: Anton Ivanov Message-ID: Date: Tue, 4 Jul 2017 18:14:10 +0100 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; Linux x86_64; rv:45.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/45.8.0 MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: <26565F78-A061-4CDE-B7AF-DA1B1073C746@gmail.com> Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="------------D8E269C0F9D9B60CE57BD129" X-Clacks-Overhead: GNU Terry Pratchett Archived-At: Subject: Re: [netmod] comments on draft-yang-json-rpc-00 X-BeenThere: netmod@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 Precedence: list List-Id: NETMOD WG list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 04 Jul 2017 17:14:26 -0000 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --------------D8E269C0F9D9B60CE57BD129 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit On 04/07/17 17:55, Giles Heron wrote: > Hi Authors, Hi Giles, thanks for the comments. We will take most of them onboard and release an updated version as soon as practical. > > some quick comments on your draft. > > > meta-comments: > > 1) shouldn’t this be in the NETMOD WG and be named > “draft-netmod-yang-json-rpc-00” once adopted, and > “draft-issn-yang-json-rpc-00” (or whatever) for now? Posting these > comments to NETMOD at any rate :) Fair point. > > 2) why does each page have a number 0 at the top? No idea, will look at the xml. > > 3) might be worth adding a security section and some IANA > considerations (even if there are no actions required from IANA) Ok. > > > Section 1: > > 4) s/ZMQ/0MQ (ref can still be [ZEROMQ]) Ok. Will address in next revision. > > 5) s/RabbitMQ/AMQP (ref can still be [RABBITMQ]) OK. Will address in next revision. > > 6) you say JSON RPC 2.0 has a number of well known shortcomings. > Aren’t there really just the two - no means of describing/documenting > an API method and no means to interpret data and to generate > structures to receive the data? or is that three? ;) I almost > wonder if bullets are the answer here. There are a couple of more which are outside the scope of the draft for the duration - lack of async support and callback calling conventions. > > 7) s/lead/led in “this has lead them” Ok. Will fix. > > 8) I think it should be “and/or use” not “and/or the use of” Ditto. > > 9) isn’t “not portable across languages” basically the same as “break > the core assumption of JSON being a language agnostic interchange format”? It is. > > 10) is it really a core assumption that JSON is language agnostic? > Given the JS in its name i mean… While it was not originally, it quickly became one and is presently assumed to be language agnostic by most developers. > > 11) you reference the "JSON Encoding of Data Modeled with YANG” draft. > That’s RFC7951 :) Guilty as charged, will be fixed. > > > Section 2: > > 12) maybe it’s time to move to YANG 1.1 (RFC 7950) We need to double-check everything for any of the changes, the intention was to do this in the next revision. > > 13) do you need to use square brackets each time you refer to a doc? > I’d just do it the first time and use the name thereafter. LyX does it for me and the rest is a f(laziness). > > > Section 3: > > 14) s/yang/YANG Guilty as charged, will be fixed. I thought I caught all of these. > > 15) where you have links to sections of RFCs I’d keep the link to the > section separate from any link to the whole RFC. Thanks, will take that onboard. > > 16) where referring to an RFC outside of square brackets I think the > correct style is to have a space between “RFC” and the RFC number. Thanks, will take that onboard. > > 17) might be worth explaining why use of must, when, leafref and > identityref can harm interoperability. Fair point. We will expand this in the next revision. > > 18) also might be worth enumerating the characters to be discouraged. Ditto. > > 19) it’s probably worth breaking the input and output for the RPC out > as separate sub-sections rather than having the input in the main part > of section 3 and the output as one sub-section of section 3.4 It is an artefact of writing the spec after writing the PoC code we did initially. The PoC code reused a lot here so the spec followed what we did. We will fix that. > > 20) it’s probably worth explaining that figure 3 is the positional > form and figure 4 is named. You do that later on so not to do it for > your first example is somewhat confusing. Thanks for noting, will fix. > > 21) it’s probably also worth explaining that the mappings for the > positional form are a difference wrt RFC7951 (since YANG-modelled data > is always carried in named form when mapped into XML or JSON). OK, we will look at that. > > > Section 3.2: > > 22) link missing under 7.13.3 > > > Section 3.3: > > 23) from my understanding of YANG extensions you need to write a YANG > model for idl and publish that. > > 24) seems you’ve actually defined two extensions here - idl:value-type > and idl:implemented-by I will refer this portion to David Spence as he is the author of this part to be addressed in the next revision. > > > Section 3.4: > > 25) the output rules seem to conflict with the input rules re lists > (one reason why I think separating those out into separate subsections > makes sense) > > > Section 3.4.1: > > 26) I’m not sure having {“key” : “value”} is a good example for anyxml > in that it tends to imply you have a model somewhere and know the > keys? The same occurs in Fig 23 (sec 3.4.3) One of the intended applications of anyxml is exactly that: "I have a model, but I do not want to give the library which manages the actual RPC implementation access to it" - transporting data opaquely across a modelled connection. We will review the text to clarify this properly. We will also look at the remaining comments/noted errors and fix them. > > > Section 3.4.3: > > 27) in fig 26 I think the result should be “object”, not “test-object”? > > > Section 3.6: > > 28) I think this is section 6.11 not 6.1 of RFC7951? > > 29) worth explaining why the representation doesn’t match JSON semantics > > 30) is this YANG path stuff equivalent to the actions in YANG 1.1? > > > Section 3.6.1: > > 31) please define QName > > > Section 3.6.3: > > 32) please delete the word “section” after “Section 3.6.1" > > > Section 4: > > 33) the Zero MQ and JSON RPC refs seem to be back to front > > 34) you’ve got PJZMQ pointing at www.jabsorb.org > Once again, thank you very much for reviewing it, we will address the comments in the next revision. A. --------------D8E269C0F9D9B60CE57BD129 Content-Type: text/html; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit
On 04/07/17 17:55, Giles Heron wrote:
Hi Authors,

Hi Giles, thanks for the comments. We will take most of them onboard and release an updated version as soon as practical.


some quick comments on your draft.


meta-comments:

1) shouldn’t this be in the NETMOD WG and be named “draft-netmod-yang-json-rpc-00” once adopted, and “draft-issn-yang-json-rpc-00” (or whatever) for now?   Posting these comments to NETMOD at any rate :)

Fair point.


2) why does each page have a number 0 at the top?

No idea, will look at the xml.


3) might be worth adding a security section and some IANA considerations (even if there are no actions required from IANA)

Ok.



Section 1:

4) s/ZMQ/0MQ (ref can still be [ZEROMQ])

Ok. Will address in next revision.


5) s/RabbitMQ/AMQP (ref can still be [RABBITMQ])

OK. Will address in next revision.


6) you say JSON RPC 2.0 has a number of well known shortcomings.  Aren’t there really just the two - no means of describing/documenting an API method and no means to interpret data and to generate structures to receive the data?   or is that three? ;)  I almost wonder if bullets are the answer here.

There are a couple of more which are outside the scope of the draft for the duration - lack of async support and callback calling conventions.


7) s/lead/led in “this has lead them”

Ok. Will fix.


8) I think it should be “and/or use” not “and/or the use of”

Ditto.


9) isn’t “not portable across languages” basically the same as “break the core assumption of JSON being a language agnostic interchange format”?

It is.


10) is it really a core assumption that JSON is language agnostic?  Given the JS in its name i mean…

While it was not originally, it quickly became one and is presently assumed to be language agnostic by most developers.


11) you reference the "JSON Encoding of Data Modeled with YANG” draft.  That’s RFC7951 :)

Guilty as charged, will be fixed.



Section 2:

12) maybe it’s time to move to YANG 1.1 (RFC 7950)

We need to double-check everything for any of the changes, the intention was to do this in the next revision.


13) do you need to use square brackets each time you refer to a doc? I’d just do it the first time and use the name thereafter.

LyX does it for me and the rest is a f(laziness).



Section 3:

14) s/yang/YANG

Guilty as charged, will be fixed. I thought I caught all of these.


15) where you have links to sections of RFCs I’d keep the link to the section separate from any link to the whole RFC.

Thanks, will take that onboard.


16) where referring to an RFC outside of square brackets I think the correct style is to have a space between “RFC” and the RFC number.

Thanks, will take that onboard.


17) might be worth explaining why use of must, when, leafref and identityref can harm interoperability.

Fair point. We will expand this in the next revision.


18) also might be worth enumerating the characters to be discouraged.

Ditto.


19) it’s probably worth breaking the input and output for the RPC out as separate sub-sections rather than having the input in the main part of section 3 and the output as one sub-section of section 3.4

It is an artefact of writing the spec after writing the PoC code we did initially. The PoC code reused a lot here so the spec followed what we did. We will fix that.


20) it’s probably worth explaining that figure 3 is the positional form and figure 4 is named.   You do that later on so not to do it for your first example is somewhat confusing.

Thanks for noting, will fix.


21) it’s probably also worth explaining that the mappings for the positional form are a difference wrt RFC7951 (since YANG-modelled data is always carried in named form when mapped into XML or JSON).

OK, we will look at that.



Section 3.2:

22) link missing under 7.13.3


Section 3.3:

23) from my understanding of YANG extensions you need to write a YANG model for idl and publish that.

24) seems you’ve actually defined two extensions here - idl:value-type and idl:implemented-by

I will refer this portion to David Spence as he is the author of this part to be addressed in the next revision.



Section 3.4:

25) the output rules seem to conflict with the input rules re lists (one reason why I think separating those out into separate subsections makes sense)





Section 3.4.1:

26) I’m not sure having {“key” : “value”} is a good example for anyxml in that it tends to imply you have a model somewhere and know the keys?  The same occurs in Fig 23 (sec 3.4.3)

One of the intended applications of anyxml is exactly that: "I have a model, but I do not want to give the library which manages the actual RPC implementation access to it" - transporting data opaquely across a modelled connection. We will review the text to clarify this properly.

We will also look at the remaining comments/noted errors and fix them.



Section 3.4.3:

27) in fig 26 I think the result should be “object”, not “test-object”?


Section 3.6:

28) I think this is section 6.11 not 6.1 of RFC7951?

29) worth explaining why the representation doesn’t match JSON semantics

30) is this YANG path stuff equivalent to the actions in YANG 1.1?


Section 3.6.1:

31) please define QName


Section 3.6.3:

32) please delete the word “section” after “Section 3.6.1"


Section 4:

33) the Zero MQ and JSON RPC refs seem to be back to front

34) you’ve got PJZMQ pointing at www.jabsorb.org


Once again, thank you very much for reviewing it, we will address the comments in the next revision.

A.
--------------D8E269C0F9D9B60CE57BD129-- From nobody Tue Jul 4 11:27:15 2017 Return-Path: X-Original-To: netmod@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: netmod@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 07DCC1316BF for ; Tue, 4 Jul 2017 11:27:14 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.901 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.901 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id g4SitsKg45IM for ; Tue, 4 Jul 2017 11:27:11 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail.transpacket.com (s91205186171.blix.com [91.205.186.171]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher AECDH-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 3812A12EBFB for ; Tue, 4 Jul 2017 11:27:10 -0700 (PDT) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by mail.transpacket.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 608951423DB7; Tue, 4 Jul 2017 20:27:08 +0200 (CEST) Received: from mail.transpacket.com ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (mail.transpacket.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10032) with ESMTP id u5g5c0FIizNR; Tue, 4 Jul 2017 20:27:08 +0200 (CEST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by mail.transpacket.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 34A331423DB8; Tue, 4 Jul 2017 20:27:08 +0200 (CEST) Received: from mail.transpacket.com ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (mail.transpacket.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10026) with ESMTP id O5Wb6cyzBYxA; Tue, 4 Jul 2017 20:27:08 +0200 (CEST) Received: from [192.168.209.116] (s1853520235.blix.com [185.35.202.35]) by mail.transpacket.com (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 123071423B84; Tue, 4 Jul 2017 20:27:08 +0200 (CEST) To: netmod@ietf.org, Robert Wilton References: <149911936036.16124.7040704366349342881@ietfa.amsl.com> From: Vladimir Vassilev Message-ID: <41fc8755-41aa-df04-ac89-0944e77c176c@transpacket.com> Date: Tue, 4 Jul 2017 20:27:07 +0200 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; Linux x86_64; rv:45.0) Gecko/20100101 Icedove/45.6.0 MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: <149911936036.16124.7040704366349342881@ietfa.amsl.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=windows-1252; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Archived-At: Subject: Re: [netmod] I-D Action: draft-ietf-netmod-intf-ext-yang-05.txt X-BeenThere: netmod@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 Precedence: list List-Id: NETMOD WG list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 04 Jul 2017 18:27:14 -0000 Hello, Our validation tools report a problem that was also reported for the 04 version and still not fixed: This is our fix: diff draft-modules/ietf-flexible-encapsulation@2017-07-03.yang ietf-flexible-encapsulation@2017-07-03.yang 145,146c145,146 < '../outer-tag/dot1q-tag/tag-type = "s-vlan" and ' + < 'dot1q-tag/tag-type = "c-vlan"' { --- > '../outer-tag/dot1q-tag/tag-type = "dot1q-types:s-vlan" and ' + > 'dot1q-tag/tag-type = "dot1q-types:c-vlan"' { 217,218c217,218 < '../outer-tag/dot1q-tag/tag-type = "s-vlan" and ' + < 'dot1q-tag/tag-type = "c-vlan"' { --- > '../outer-tag/dot1q-tag/tag-type = "dot1q-types:s-vlan" and ' + > 'dot1q-tag/tag-type = "dot1q-types:c-vlan"' { 375,376c375,376 < '../outer-tag/dot1q-tag/tag-type = "s-vlan" and ' + < 'dot1q-tag/tag-type = "c-vlan"' { --- > '../outer-tag/dot1q-tag/tag-type = "dot1q-types:s-vlan" and ' + > 'dot1q-tag/tag-type = "dot1q-types:c-vlan"' { Vladimir On 07/04/2017 12:02 AM, internet-drafts@ietf.org wrote: > A New Internet-Draft is available from the on-line Internet-Drafts directories. > This draft is a work item of the NETCONF Data Modeling Language of the IETF. > > Title : Common Interface Extension YANG Data Models > Authors : Robert Wilton > David Ball > Tapraj Singh > Selvakumar Sivaraj > Filename : draft-ietf-netmod-intf-ext-yang-05.txt > Pages : 27 > Date : 2017-07-03 > > Abstract: > This document defines two YANG modules that augment the Interfaces > data model defined in the "YANG Data Model for Interface Management" > with additional configuration and operational data nodes to support > common lower layer interface properties, such as interface MTU. > These properties are common to many types of interfaces on network > routers and switches and are implemented by multiple network > equipment vendors with similar semantics, even though some of the > features are not formally defined in any published standard. > > > The IETF datatracker status page for this draft is: > https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-netmod-intf-ext-yang/ > > There are also htmlized versions available at: > https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-netmod-intf-ext-yang-05 > https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/html/draft-ietf-netmod-intf-ext-yang-05 > > A diff from the previous version is available at: > https://www.ietf.org/rfcdiff?url2=draft-ietf-netmod-intf-ext-yang-05 > > > Please note that it may take a couple of minutes from the time of submission > until the htmlized version and diff are available at tools.ietf.org. > > Internet-Drafts are also available by anonymous FTP at: > ftp://ftp.ietf.org/internet-drafts/ > > _______________________________________________ > netmod mailing list > netmod@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/netmod From nobody Wed Jul 5 02:25:36 2017 Return-Path: X-Original-To: netmod@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: netmod@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2E035131C48 for ; 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05 Jul 2017 09:25:27 +0000 Received: from [10.63.23.55] (dhcp-ensft1-uk-vla370-10-63-23-55.cisco.com [10.63.23.55]) by aer-core-4.cisco.com (8.14.5/8.14.5) with ESMTP id v659PRch007409; Wed, 5 Jul 2017 09:25:27 GMT To: Vladimir Vassilev , netmod@ietf.org References: <149911936036.16124.7040704366349342881@ietfa.amsl.com> <41fc8755-41aa-df04-ac89-0944e77c176c@transpacket.com> From: Robert Wilton Message-ID: <5ee09df9-fde0-73c9-118c-337ef11c2ef9@cisco.com> Date: Wed, 5 Jul 2017 10:25:27 +0100 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 6.1; WOW64; rv:45.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/45.8.0 MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: <41fc8755-41aa-df04-ac89-0944e77c176c@transpacket.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=windows-1252; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Archived-At: Subject: Re: [netmod] I-D Action: draft-ietf-netmod-intf-ext-yang-05.txt X-BeenThere: netmod@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 Precedence: list List-Id: NETMOD WG list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 05 Jul 2017 09:25:35 -0000 Hi Vladimir, Thanks for raising this, and apologies that I missed fixing this in the 04 version. I'll apply the patch now, and then will post an updated version at the beginning of IETF. I'm actually also trying to remove the "dot1q-tag" containers as well, but this requires coordination with IEEE because they are hosting the groupings in their files. I'm hopeful that I can also get that fixed at the same time. Thanks, Rob On 04/07/2017 19:27, Vladimir Vassilev wrote: > Hello, > > Our validation tools report a problem that was also reported for the > 04 version and still not fixed: > > This is our fix: > > diff draft-modules/ietf-flexible-encapsulation@2017-07-03.yang > ietf-flexible-encapsulation@2017-07-03.yang > 145,146c145,146 > < '../outer-tag/dot1q-tag/tag-type = "s-vlan" and ' + > < 'dot1q-tag/tag-type = "c-vlan"' { > --- > > '../outer-tag/dot1q-tag/tag-type = > "dot1q-types:s-vlan" and ' + > > 'dot1q-tag/tag-type = "dot1q-types:c-vlan"' { > 217,218c217,218 > < '../outer-tag/dot1q-tag/tag-type = "s-vlan" and ' + > < 'dot1q-tag/tag-type = "c-vlan"' { > --- > > '../outer-tag/dot1q-tag/tag-type = "dot1q-types:s-vlan" > and ' + > > 'dot1q-tag/tag-type = "dot1q-types:c-vlan"' { > 375,376c375,376 > < '../outer-tag/dot1q-tag/tag-type = "s-vlan" and ' + > < 'dot1q-tag/tag-type = "c-vlan"' { > --- > > '../outer-tag/dot1q-tag/tag-type = > "dot1q-types:s-vlan" and ' + > > 'dot1q-tag/tag-type = "dot1q-types:c-vlan"' { > > Vladimir > > > On 07/04/2017 12:02 AM, internet-drafts@ietf.org wrote: >> A New Internet-Draft is available from the on-line Internet-Drafts >> directories. >> This draft is a work item of the NETCONF Data Modeling Language of >> the IETF. >> >> Title : Common Interface Extension YANG Data Models >> Authors : Robert Wilton >> David Ball >> Tapraj Singh >> Selvakumar Sivaraj >> Filename : draft-ietf-netmod-intf-ext-yang-05.txt >> Pages : 27 >> Date : 2017-07-03 >> >> Abstract: >> This document defines two YANG modules that augment the Interfaces >> data model defined in the "YANG Data Model for Interface Management" >> with additional configuration and operational data nodes to support >> common lower layer interface properties, such as interface MTU. >> These properties are common to many types of interfaces on network >> routers and switches and are implemented by multiple network >> equipment vendors with similar semantics, even though some of the >> features are not formally defined in any published standard. >> >> >> The IETF datatracker status page for this draft is: >> https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-netmod-intf-ext-yang/ >> >> There are also htmlized versions available at: >> https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-netmod-intf-ext-yang-05 >> https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/html/draft-ietf-netmod-intf-ext-yang-05 >> >> A diff from the previous version is available at: >> https://www.ietf.org/rfcdiff?url2=draft-ietf-netmod-intf-ext-yang-05 >> >> >> Please note that it may take a couple of minutes from the time of >> submission >> until the htmlized version and diff are available at tools.ietf.org. >> >> Internet-Drafts are also available by anonymous FTP at: >> ftp://ftp.ietf.org/internet-drafts/ >> >> _______________________________________________ >> netmod mailing list >> netmod@ietf.org >> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/netmod > > . > From nobody Wed Jul 5 03:30:43 2017 Return-Path: X-Original-To: netmod@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: netmod@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3D34B131C6C; 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05 Jul 2017 10:30:35 +0000 Received: from [10.63.23.55] (dhcp-ensft1-uk-vla370-10-63-23-55.cisco.com [10.63.23.55]) by aer-core-1.cisco.com (8.14.5/8.14.5) with ESMTP id v65AUYde009989; Wed, 5 Jul 2017 10:30:34 GMT To: Andy Bierman , "netmod@ietf.org" , YANG Doctors References: From: Robert Wilton Message-ID: Date: Wed, 5 Jul 2017 11:30:33 +0100 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 6.1; WOW64; rv:45.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/45.8.0 MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="------------47F09D9D3B17A8B7DE1A7217" Archived-At: Subject: Re: [netmod] YANG doctor review of draft-ietf-netmod-intf-ext-yang-04 X-BeenThere: netmod@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 Precedence: list List-Id: NETMOD WG list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 05 Jul 2017 10:30:42 -0000 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --------------47F09D9D3B17A8B7DE1A7217 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=windows-1252; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hi Andy, Thanks for this review, and sorry for the very slow reply. I believe that I have addressed most of your comments in the updated draft-ietf-netmod-intf-ext-yang-05 version. The only comment that I have not directly addressed relates to "identity ethSubInterface", and this is because I believe that may be a better way of solving this by defining generic interface property identities that are then inherited by the interface types identities defined in iana-if-types.yang. I've written up how this approach could work in draft-wilton-netmod-interface-properties-00. As always, comments welcome. Thanks, Rob On 06/04/2017 18:43, Andy Bierman wrote: > > Overall: > > The document is well-written and almost ready for publication > > Comments: > > 1) No examples or guidance for "encaps-type" > > The document does not really define the standards value > for this empty choice. There are no examples showing its use. > More work is needed for this part of the module. > > The following TODO needs to be resolved and the note removed > from the document: > > /* > * TODO - Should we introduce an abstract type to make this > * extensible to new interface types, or vendor > * specific interface types? > */ > > 2) normative overlap > > The text and layout of sec. 3 is good. > The issue is that the YANG module text copies from this section > in some places (leafs) and references it in others (feature definitions) > > Some parts like "half-life" are more detailed in the leaf definition > than the plain text in sec. 3 > > Perhaps the leaf definitions can have reference-stmts added > as needed, so it is clear that the YANG leaf is not the > entire normative text. The YANG descriptions are good, > but maybe not complete wrt/ sec. 3 additional text. > > > sec 3.7 typo: > > the existing the sub-interface > ^^^ remove extra 'the' > > 3) identity ethSubInterface > > This identity is used in the encapsulation container when-stmt. > It is not clear if this is intended as a base identity (like identity > sub-interface) > An example for the encapsulation container would help clarify the > expected usage > > This also has 2 bases (sub-interface and l2vlan). > Some explanation in the identity-stmt would be helpful > (since this is a new YANG 1.1 construct) > > > > Andy > > > > _______________________________________________ > netmod mailing list > netmod@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/netmod --------------47F09D9D3B17A8B7DE1A7217 Content-Type: text/html; charset=windows-1252 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit

Hi Andy,

Thanks for this review, and sorry for the very slow reply.

I believe that I have addressed most of your comments in the updated draft-ietf-netmod-intf-ext-yang-05 version.

The only comment that I have not directly addressed relates to "identity ethSubInterface", and this is because I believe that may be a better way of solving this by defining generic interface property identities that are then inherited by the interface types identities defined in iana-if-types.yang.

I've written up how this approach could work in draft-wilton-netmod-interface-properties-00. As always, comments welcome.

Thanks,
Rob


On 06/04/2017 18:43, Andy Bierman wrote:

Overall:

The document is well-written and almost ready for publication

Comments:

1) No examples or guidance for "encaps-type"

The document does not really define the standards value
for this empty choice. There are no examples showing its use.
More work is needed for this part of the module.

The following TODO needs to be resolved and the note removed
from the document:

/*
* TODO - Should we introduce an abstract type to make this
* extensible to new interface types, or vendor
* specific interface types?
*/

2) normative overlap

The text and layout of sec. 3 is good.
The issue is that the YANG module text copies from this section
in some places (leafs) and references it in others (feature definitions)

Some parts like "half-life" are more detailed in the leaf definition
than the plain text in sec. 3

Perhaps the leaf definitions can have reference-stmts added
as needed, so it is clear that the YANG leaf is not the
entire normative text. The YANG descriptions are good,
but maybe not complete wrt/ sec. 3 additional text.


sec 3.7 typo:

the existing the sub-interface
^^^ remove extra 'the'

3) identity ethSubInterface

This identity is used in the encapsulation container when-stmt.
It is not clear if this is intended as a base identity (like identity sub-interface)
An example for the encapsulation container would help clarify the
expected usage

This also has 2 bases (sub-interface and l2vlan).
Some explanation in the identity-stmt would be helpful
(since this is a new YANG 1.1 construct)



Andy



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--------------47F09D9D3B17A8B7DE1A7217-- From nobody Wed Jul 5 15:58:05 2017 Return-Path: X-Original-To: netmod@ietf.org Delivered-To: netmod@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from ietfa.amsl.com (localhost [IPv6:::1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1A8B112EA95; Wed, 5 Jul 2017 15:58:05 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: internet-drafts@ietf.org To: Cc: netmod@ietf.org X-Test-IDTracker: no X-IETF-IDTracker: 6.55.2 Auto-Submitted: auto-generated Precedence: bulk Message-ID: <149929548507.22684.13953292133304940664@ietfa.amsl.com> Date: Wed, 05 Jul 2017 15:58:05 -0700 Archived-At: Subject: [netmod] I-D Action: draft-ietf-netmod-schema-mount-06.txt X-BeenThere: netmod@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 List-Id: NETMOD WG list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 05 Jul 2017 22:58:05 -0000 A New Internet-Draft is available from the on-line Internet-Drafts directories. This draft is a work item of the NETCONF Data Modeling Language of the IETF. Title : YANG Schema Mount Authors : Martin Bjorklund Ladislav Lhotka Filename : draft-ietf-netmod-schema-mount-06.txt Pages : 27 Date : 2017-07-05 Abstract: This document defines a mechanism to combine YANG modules into the schema defined in other YANG modules. The IETF datatracker status page for this draft is: https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-netmod-schema-mount/ There are also htmlized versions available at: https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-netmod-schema-mount-06 https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/html/draft-ietf-netmod-schema-mount-06 A diff from the previous version is available at: https://www.ietf.org/rfcdiff?url2=draft-ietf-netmod-schema-mount-06 Please note that it may take a couple of minutes from the time of submission until the htmlized version and diff are available at tools.ietf.org. 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Fri, 7 Jul 2017 21:24:01 +0200 (CEST) Date: Fri, 7 Jul 2017 21:24:01 +0200 From: Juergen Schoenwaelder To: Kent Watsen Cc: "netmod@ietf.org" Message-ID: <20170707192401.GA8791@elstar.local> Reply-To: Juergen Schoenwaelder Mail-Followup-To: Kent Watsen , "netmod@ietf.org" References: <1D830FD0-547F-4F5D-A169-B05A8DC013B3@juniper.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <1D830FD0-547F-4F5D-A169-B05A8DC013B3@juniper.net> User-Agent: Mutt/1.6.0 (2016-04-01) Archived-At: Subject: Re: [netmod] WG Last Call for draft-ietf-netmod-acl-model-11 X-BeenThere: netmod@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 Precedence: list List-Id: NETMOD WG list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 07 Jul 2017 19:24:07 -0000 Kent, what is the plan concerning the open issues listed in section 8? /js On Fri, Jul 07, 2017 at 06:34:28PM +0000, Kent Watsen wrote: > > > This is a notice to start a three week NETMOD WG last call for the > document: > > Network Access Control List (ACL) YANG Data Model > https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-netmod-acl-model-11 > > Note: Three weeks is more than needed, especially given this > draft has been through Last Call before, but we understand > folks are busy these days. > > Please indicate your support or concerns by Friday, July 28, 2017. > > We are particularly interested in statements of the form: > * I have reviewed this draft and found no issues. > * I have reviewed this draft and found the following issues: ... > > As well as: > * I have implemented the data model in this draft. > * I am implementing the data model in this draft. > * I am considering to implement the data model in this draft. > * I am not considering to implement the data model in this draft. > > Thank you, > NETMOD WG Chairs > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > netmod mailing list > netmod@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/netmod -- Juergen Schoenwaelder Jacobs University Bremen gGmbH Phone: +49 421 200 3587 Campus Ring 1 | 28759 Bremen | Germany Fax: +49 421 200 3103 From nobody Fri Jul 7 12:38:39 2017 Return-Path: X-Original-To: netmod@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: netmod@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 064E9127337 for ; 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charset="utf-8" Content-ID: Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-OriginatorOrg: juniper.net X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-originalarrivaltime: 07 Jul 2017 19:38:33.5485 (UTC) X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-fromentityheader: Hosted X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-id: bea78b3c-4cdb-4130-854a-1d193232e5f4 X-MS-Exchange-Transport-CrossTenantHeadersStamped: BN3PR0501MB1236 Archived-At: Subject: Re: [netmod] WG Last Call for draft-ietf-netmod-acl-model-11 X-BeenThere: netmod@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 Precedence: list List-Id: NETMOD WG list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 07 Jul 2017 19:38:38 -0000 DQpDYW4gdGhlIGF1dGhvcnMgcGxlYXNlIHN0YXJ0IGEgdGhyZWFkIG9uIGVhY2ggb2YgdGhlc2Ug b3Blbi1pc3N1ZXMgQVNBUD8NCg0KVGhhbmtzLA0KS2VudCAvLyBzaGVwaGVyZA0KDQotLQ0KDQpL ZW50LA0KDQp3aGF0IGlzIHRoZSBwbGFuIGNvbmNlcm5pbmcgdGhlIG9wZW4gaXNzdWVzIGxpc3Rl ZCBpbiBzZWN0aW9uIDg/DQoNCi9qcw0KDQpPbiBGcmksIEp1bCAwNywgMjAxNyBhdCAwNjozNDoy OFBNICswMDAwLCBLZW50IFdhdHNlbiB3cm90ZToNCj4gDQo+IA0KPiBUaGlzIGlzIGEgbm90aWNl IHRvIHN0YXJ0IGEgdGhyZWUgd2VlayBORVRNT0QgV0cgbGFzdCBjYWxsIGZvciB0aGUNCj4gZG9j dW1lbnQ6DQo+IA0KPiAgICAgTmV0d29yayBBY2Nlc3MgQ29udHJvbCBMaXN0IChBQ0wpIFlBTkcg RGF0YSBNb2RlbA0KPiAgICAgaHR0cHM6Ly90b29scy5pZXRmLm9yZy9odG1sL2RyYWZ0LWlldGYt bmV0bW9kLWFjbC1tb2RlbC0xMQ0KPiANCj4gTm90ZTogVGhyZWUgd2Vla3MgaXMgbW9yZSB0aGFu IG5lZWRlZCwgZXNwZWNpYWxseSBnaXZlbiB0aGlzIA0KPiAgICAgICBkcmFmdCBoYXMgYmVlbiB0 aHJvdWdoIExhc3QgQ2FsbCBiZWZvcmUsIGJ1dCB3ZSB1bmRlcnN0YW5kDQo+ICAgICAgIGZvbGtz IGFyZSBidXN5IHRoZXNlIGRheXMuDQo+IA0KPiBQbGVhc2UgaW5kaWNhdGUgeW91ciBzdXBwb3J0 IG9yIGNvbmNlcm5zIGJ5IEZyaWRheSwgSnVseSAyOCwgMjAxNy4NCj4gDQo+IFdlIGFyZSBwYXJ0 aWN1bGFybHkgaW50ZXJlc3RlZCBpbiBzdGF0ZW1lbnRzIG9mIHRoZSBmb3JtOg0KPiAgICogSSBo YXZlIHJldmlld2VkIHRoaXMgZHJhZnQgYW5kIGZvdW5kIG5vIGlzc3Vlcy4NCj4gICAqIEkgaGF2 ZSByZXZpZXdlZCB0aGlzIGRyYWZ0IGFuZCBmb3VuZCB0aGUgZm9sbG93aW5nIGlzc3VlczogLi4u DQo+IA0KPiBBcyB3ZWxsIGFzOg0KPiAgICogSSBoYXZlIGltcGxlbWVudGVkIHRoZSBkYXRhIG1v ZGVsIGluIHRoaXMgZHJhZnQuDQo+ICAgKiBJIGFtIGltcGxlbWVudGluZyB0aGUgZGF0YSBtb2Rl bCBpbiB0aGlzIGRyYWZ0Lg0KPiAgICogSSBhbSBjb25zaWRlcmluZyB0byBpbXBsZW1lbnQgdGhl IGRhdGEgbW9kZWwgaW4gdGhpcyBkcmFmdC4NCj4gICAqIEkgYW0gbm90IGNvbnNpZGVyaW5nIHRv IGltcGxlbWVudCB0aGUgZGF0YSBtb2RlbCBpbiB0aGlzIGRyYWZ0Lg0KPiANCj4gVGhhbmsgeW91 LA0KPiBORVRNT0QgV0cgQ2hhaXJzDQo+IA0KPiANCj4gDQo+IA0KPiANCj4gX19fX19fX19fX19f X19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX18NCj4gbmV0bW9kIG1haWxpbmcgbGlz dA0KPiBuZXRtb2RAaWV0Zi5vcmcNCj4gaHR0cHM6Ly93d3cuaWV0Zi5vcmcvbWFpbG1hbi9saXN0 aW5mby9uZXRtb2QNCg0KLS0gDQpKdWVyZ2VuIFNjaG9lbndhZWxkZXIgICAgICAgICAgIEphY29i cyBVbml2ZXJzaXR5IEJyZW1lbiBnR21iSA0KUGhvbmU6ICs0OSA0MjEgMjAwIDM1ODcgICAgICAg ICBDYW1wdXMgUmluZyAxIHwgMjg3NTkgQnJlbWVuIHwgR2VybWFueQ0KRmF4OiAgICs0OSA0MjEg MjAwIDMxMDMgICAgICAgICA8aHR0cDovL3d3dy5qYWNvYnMtdW5pdmVyc2l0eS5kZS8+DQoNCg0K From nobody Fri Jul 7 13:39:49 2017 Return-Path: X-Original-To: netmod@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: netmod@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2F95D126D05 for ; 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Fri, 07 Jul 2017 13:39:43 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.31.115.75 with HTTP; Fri, 7 Jul 2017 13:39:42 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: <1D830FD0-547F-4F5D-A169-B05A8DC013B3@juniper.net> References: <1D830FD0-547F-4F5D-A169-B05A8DC013B3@juniper.net> From: David Bannister Date: Fri, 7 Jul 2017 16:39:42 -0400 Message-ID: To: Kent Watsen Cc: "netmod@ietf.org" Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="f403045dea94a51bf00553c03b90" Archived-At: Subject: Re: [netmod] WG Last Call for draft-ietf-netmod-acl-model-11 X-BeenThere: netmod@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 Precedence: list List-Id: NETMOD WG list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 07 Jul 2017 20:39:47 -0000 --f403045dea94a51bf00553c03b90 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" I have reviewed this draft and it addresses my earlier concerns. On Fri, Jul 7, 2017 at 2:34 PM, Kent Watsen wrote: > > > This is a notice to start a three week NETMOD WG last call for the > document: > > Network Access Control List (ACL) YANG Data Model > https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-netmod-acl-model-11 > > Note: Three weeks is more than needed, especially given this > draft has been through Last Call before, but we understand > folks are busy these days. > > Please indicate your support or concerns by Friday, July 28, 2017. > > We are particularly interested in statements of the form: > * I have reviewed this draft and found no issues. > * I have reviewed this draft and found the following issues: ... > > As well as: > * I have implemented the data model in this draft. > * I am implementing the data model in this draft. > * I am considering to implement the data model in this draft. > * I am not considering to implement the data model in this draft. > > Thank you, > NETMOD WG Chairs > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > netmod mailing list > netmod@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/netmod > --f403045dea94a51bf00553c03b90 Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
I have reviewed this draft and it addresses my earlier con= cerns.

On Fr= i, Jul 7, 2017 at 2:34 PM, Kent Watsen <kwatsen@juniper.net> wrote:


This is a notice to start a three week NETMOD WG last call for the
document:

=C2=A0 =C2=A0 Network Access Control List (ACL) YANG Data Model
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 https://tools.ietf.org/html/= draft-ietf-netmod-acl-model-11

Note: Three weeks is more than needed, especially given this
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 draft has been through Last Call before, but we unders= tand
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 folks are busy these days.

Please indicate your support or concerns by Friday, July 28, 2017.

We are particularly interested in statements of the form:
=C2=A0 * I have reviewed this draft and found no issues.
=C2=A0 * I have reviewed this draft and found the following issues: ...

As well as:
=C2=A0 * I have implemented the data model in this draft.
=C2=A0 * I am implementing the data model in this draft.
=C2=A0 * I am considering to implement the data model in this draft.
=C2=A0 * I am not considering to implement the data model in this draft.
Thank you,
NETMOD WG Chairs





_______________________________________________
netmod mailing list
netmod@ietf.org
https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/netmod

--f403045dea94a51bf00553c03b90-- From nobody Fri Jul 7 13:43:56 2017 Return-Path: X-Original-To: netmod@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: netmod@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id E9F3F12EC2F for ; Fri, 7 Jul 2017 13:43:54 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.998 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.998 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=gmail.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id Un1tvtPFBC2D for ; Fri, 7 Jul 2017 13:43:53 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail-pg0-x231.google.com (mail-pg0-x231.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:400e:c05::231]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id CBE24126D05 for ; Fri, 7 Jul 2017 13:43:52 -0700 (PDT) Received: by mail-pg0-x231.google.com with SMTP id t186so22400727pgb.1 for ; Fri, 07 Jul 2017 13:43:52 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20161025; h=from:subject:date:message-id:cc:to:mime-version; bh=BTX/kg5Rzh4cRw8WLXRoJ7niNMmJJR29vH3N1GXq2NU=; b=aX428zBbGIwDDlYLFkxxjMVLoseWFhQlWPtodiTNr41K0Lr83hTxXeoiN4L/nYCUsq //sj77/vb7v9OgY0vgUl/nnaYPafJE8VnrMFzWAp1rD3mS/8R7DfwT3aJD53j8KBmE9W EqoiKZbNpXNX1D6LBzz9DZLA/HJgcJ6JYRZNEeuaTzP8rE0K2dS35K9ZoNm3lHCoMta6 inQudmAVSbZ0AHmPE71NYzilc3cP7fyh+MLWKmX4xhgVlWjwEuIs6AqmJkSN6O0HoNNh q0WuDJ388/t2kpJ7NqfMDzBSWNXYKMIE1OnmGinMDfE0g1LYcMHVji8GmDDkbdPTV5z4 gdGg== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:from:subject:date:message-id:cc:to:mime-version; bh=BTX/kg5Rzh4cRw8WLXRoJ7niNMmJJR29vH3N1GXq2NU=; b=I3njVNN8cSaCduFkAKm5RjidIs5wV52JDXu9hCTrUpyZd4fVMMfa+Hr3TF3fOsnviA Od5F5Qt7ppRlLTjiP2XHY4VcO/xwMETqq/VULasBMf06xHWS4BceU/NVBXVnNBNe2gn9 IKE6EOTjpjvMaZgzsbP3gnUxJHPbC/E8sguEWW1rzNMDmZTLC6/qE5E2U3yfv47aig2B 8OHTJZlL7in8JW88UGHGPG1oAl5H9U/dx0Psdnke9E3Rm9E0gTkRsDV8p2coaKcTlG7l dCxAT2RfrgVCnPwHJhkdq8YUTYvj5P5WVjGYZa84WRl1CqV0Nqu9OzS9KSxzlx9GdiYG JwYw== X-Gm-Message-State: AIVw113LPLRq72G9nEQqj9TjHjwVsaDe51PxWSEHH6CgNv7BcNXmk/ex Iciwj/pt1g9dRg3+Oy5iLA== X-Received: by 10.98.158.29 with SMTP id s29mr33908027pfd.126.1499460232258; Fri, 07 Jul 2017 13:43:52 -0700 (PDT) Received: from ?IPv6:2602:306:cf77:df90:ece3:5fed:de5b:51da? ([2602:306:cf77:df90:ece3:5fed:de5b:51da]) by smtp.gmail.com with ESMTPSA id t11sm9728577pfi.66.2017.07.07.13.43.50 (version=TLS1 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-AES128-SHA bits=128/128); Fri, 07 Jul 2017 13:43:51 -0700 (PDT) From: Mahesh Jethanandani Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="Apple-Mail=_68892EC4-ED62-4C67-B9ED-74A8381182C4" Date: Fri, 7 Jul 2017 13:43:49 -0700 Message-Id: Cc: Marc Holness , Glenn Parsons , scott.mansfield@ericsson.com To: NetMod WG Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 9.3 \(3124\)) X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.3124) Archived-At: Subject: [netmod] draft-ietf-netmod-acl-model-11 issue #3 X-BeenThere: netmod@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 Precedence: list List-Id: NETMOD WG list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 07 Jul 2017 20:43:55 -0000 --Apple-Mail=_68892EC4-ED62-4C67-B9ED-74A8381182C4 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Created issue #3 in github = as "The model defines = 'ether-type' node as a string.=E2=80=9D with the following description. The model defines 'ether-type' node as a string. Ideally, this should be = a well defined list of all Ethernet Types assigned by IEEE. This = requires collaborating with IEEE. One suggestion was to define ether-type as identities. That works for = when the identities themselves are distributed and need to be made = extensible. But Ethernet Types are doled out in IEEE by Registration Authority = Committee (RAC), so they could choose to centrally define it as an enum = and give each hex string a name that could be used by models. If a user = wants to configure a particular ether-type, the server must import a = version of the IEEE 8021q model that has that enumeration. Alternatively, as @mbj4668 has suggested, = it could also be a typedef like this: typedef ether-type { type union { type ieee-ether-type:ether-type-enum; type uint16; // or a hex-based number } } Finally, the suggestion is to have ether-type defined as a number (or = hex based). This is flexible, but requires users/operators to read and = write numbers which are harder to remember than symbolic names. My personal preference would be for IEEE to define and publish the YANG = model with the definitions. Mahesh Jethanandani mjethanandani@gmail.com --Apple-Mail=_68892EC4-ED62-4C67-B9ED-74A8381182C4 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/html; charset=utf-8
Created = issue #3 in github as "The model defines 'ether-type' node as a string.=E2=80=9D with the = following description.

The model defines 'ether-type' node as a string. = Ideally, this should be a well defined list of all Ethernet Types = assigned by IEEE. This requires collaborating with IEEE.

One suggestion = was to define ether-type as identities. That works for when the = identities themselves are distributed and need to be made = extensible.

But Ethernet Types are doled out in IEEE by Registration = Authority Committee (RAC), so they could choose to centrally define it = as an enum and give each hex string a name that could be used by models. = If a user wants to configure a particular ether-type, the server must = import a version of the IEEE 8021q model that has that = enumeration.

Alternatively, as @mbj4668 has = suggested, it could also be a typedef like this:

    typedef =
ether-type {
      type union {
        type ieee-ether-type:ether-type-enum;
        type uint16; // or a hex-based number
      }
    }
Finally, the suggestion is to have ether-type = defined as a number (or hex based). This is flexible, but requires = users/operators to read and write numbers which are harder to remember = than symbolic names.

My personal preference would be for IEEE to define and = publish the YANG model with the definitions.

Mahesh Jethanandani
mjethanandani@gmail.com



= --Apple-Mail=_68892EC4-ED62-4C67-B9ED-74A8381182C4-- From nobody Fri Jul 7 13:54:10 2017 Return-Path: X-Original-To: netmod@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: netmod@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4E92D12EC37 for ; Fri, 7 Jul 2017 13:54:09 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.017 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.017 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, HTML_FONT_FACE_BAD=0.981, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=no autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=gmail.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id iZDjDCDpflB5 for ; Fri, 7 Jul 2017 13:54:07 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail-pg0-x229.google.com (mail-pg0-x229.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:400e:c05::229]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id BEECD1200FC for ; Fri, 7 Jul 2017 13:54:07 -0700 (PDT) Received: by mail-pg0-x229.google.com with SMTP id k14so22470167pgr.0 for ; Fri, 07 Jul 2017 13:54:07 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20161025; h=from:subject:message-id:date:to:mime-version; bh=5TYY/UX8AQqFv3eQSEe3/9RjuQO5Thi4wZax4+R3wP4=; b=U5noVTTihfL8qcbo4AIxU5uIfUYSlEzCo6KxB71Y+lOpvqi6RGutPGFaqYwm7Q489R LlVf4YnPCmR5zgF5V/ytYjBXeviCyaEOCr0PWxlSYH1jTMD2NcB6lGx55wg7orRHAPWt UFV1AADJHD39uK+LCyE39zCUh1keqRQLTEEHG4at9lx60feLo1XTB2N24LN3Ew6gZFX8 8LsUzLqt6CrThNG1qjYoK6pv7ejIAHkx+8+PBSzP1x3OWlWzCHvOtGyn/2P/2/oA7KKh GcsMAnQPEAeqgjgcRVKXr3a3Qde/DKgystc306+imp7nzVEUc3kS9LeNK05dL40L1dBl eCzQ== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:from:subject:message-id:date:to:mime-version; bh=5TYY/UX8AQqFv3eQSEe3/9RjuQO5Thi4wZax4+R3wP4=; b=qSa+m76KVI726a96LciAJkM6H9K9FBV88T7RNcg4Fkm5XUSz+x/hn/ukLtRUy3WkE9 XQpWlXNhrtLI3/D6t8HC5QlgHfQotDmwj9pPZJpKjvsfx6xFnC1NZWac0QkqFBygPjGZ Hcy3rQuO/YJazqCWvDwaiRDU8vG6dyy4kAuDoINonSOAxo0Prnt3AP0xTEkgtN/xvdJt tgRbk8BC9dm6eSjoLEqEuq2iHIBFYb5bwLSWEHS0dnGFtVAjUbL/jmSy9M59c4XaNUhM xrusExxOxrJg8icZXlR0zuAQJH+zl1hcC46hjiPzlHQ8Jfcx+tWVcQFKlUHBHzmnYU9S TRDg== X-Gm-Message-State: AIVw111smSGChF91xUHoxzKOX73221UaMooI6F6+MKIUibtQVUoHrkG7 5iavUM35c9Plth3Lz7EpZw== X-Received: by 10.99.55.10 with SMTP id e10mr3346513pga.176.1499460847207; Fri, 07 Jul 2017 13:54:07 -0700 (PDT) Received: from sjc-mahesh-nitro5.cisco.com ([128.107.241.167]) by smtp.gmail.com with ESMTPSA id n13sm7428327pgs.0.2017.07.07.13.54.06 for (version=TLS1 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-AES128-SHA bits=128/128); Fri, 07 Jul 2017 13:54:06 -0700 (PDT) From: Mahesh Jethanandani Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="Apple-Mail=_15F4A09F-597C-4BB7-B847-18678756DAEF" Message-Id: <9A059699-F479-43C9-913D-B00FD1EC1058@gmail.com> Date: Fri, 7 Jul 2017 13:54:05 -0700 To: NetMod WG Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 9.3 \(3124\)) X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.3124) Archived-At: Subject: [netmod] draft-ietf-netmod-acl-model-11 issue #1 X-BeenThere: netmod@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 Precedence: list List-Id: NETMOD WG list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 07 Jul 2017 20:54:09 -0000 --Apple-Mail=_15F4A09F-597C-4BB7-B847-18678756DAEF Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Created issue #1 in github = as =E2=80=9CThe = current model does not support the concept of "containers" or object = groups used to contain multiple objects per rule entry=E2=80=9D. with a description that says: Some vendors define the concept of containers or object groups, which is = used to contain objects such as host names, IP addresses, subnet, range = of address, protocol, port numbers etc. A single action is then = associated with the object group, e.g. permit, deny and/or log. This = concept is not supported in the model currently. Is this concept important to implement in the model? If so, feature = statements and identities used in the model to allow vendors to define = what they support, cannot be extended to such object groups. Mahesh Jethanandani mjethanandani@gmail.com --Apple-Mail=_15F4A09F-597C-4BB7-B847-18678756DAEF Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/html; charset=utf-8
Created = issue #1 in github as =E2=80=9CThe current model does not support the concept of = "containers" or object groups used to contain multiple objects per rule = entry=E2=80=9D.

with a description = that says:

Some vendors define the concept of containers or = object groups, which is used to contain objects such as host names, IP = addresses, subnet, range of address, protocol, port numbers etc. A = single action is then associated with the object group, e.g. permit, = deny and/or log. This concept is not supported in the model = currently.

Is this concept important to = implement in the model? If so, feature statements and identities used in = the model to allow vendors to define what they support, cannot be = extended to such object groups.


Mahesh Jethanandani
mjethanandani@gmail.com



= --Apple-Mail=_15F4A09F-597C-4BB7-B847-18678756DAEF-- From nobody Fri Jul 7 14:03:56 2017 Return-Path: X-Original-To: netmod@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: netmod@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id E967713154F for ; Fri, 7 Jul 2017 14:03:55 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.998 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.998 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=gmail.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id BCoM6Ehm4gKU for ; Fri, 7 Jul 2017 14:03:54 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail-pf0-x22a.google.com (mail-pf0-x22a.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:400e:c00::22a]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 1A19412EC19 for ; Fri, 7 Jul 2017 14:03:54 -0700 (PDT) Received: by mail-pf0-x22a.google.com with SMTP id q86so22379862pfl.3 for ; Fri, 07 Jul 2017 14:03:54 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20161025; h=from:subject:message-id:date:to:mime-version; bh=C3YbInHLiB9dK9jdiwexZxHKNSTlLisAG+cm24lxoOc=; b=OtnXyaJedeBPm5XFl4XRrn2K1/2mXCJKBy+tF5CCwDagITCkxN4YbRvtcZNv4Su+f/ buDCxAcN+s3SRwEoNTN5MLknglglUK8TBlBfgWIUg79DE62BULC17Ls2DIL2+4eaUGf6 +UbCj/huiZdowMMtqOuPEVWjpQ6bc//Dn3POiqlQUc+tjrtJJqZZHueZ1bFjbuKRwCoL 9P+SvGES1t3VxdASpTqjeRufhZ9HbSmCQJdxkJr3oQmKoW8oglb9Vb1WOyvVgtWMRyXr q81hKr7xdW5OpYhNvhO7SuzMoJwrUT6Xnkknb3LOY0iEWLiV5F2mzpo9J9WWcFoWHk0D w/mA== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:from:subject:message-id:date:to:mime-version; bh=C3YbInHLiB9dK9jdiwexZxHKNSTlLisAG+cm24lxoOc=; b=GE9T9XymukSza8Ug9fo5/pYXhqtBCjye5T3+TYDKnXlsz+g7ViLLfMXxxgPydrNs6b YuJOp/2NvRmLHJ68HO/mVJx2QMMnCXKuah7z9hqVRLGZBouIuVn4SAOxuWyE3wa6cvh4 oDx0IQuFPmKWTXE9qDr2LCU2MvX7F8Pbh6KUe49+YWCvirOxaua9Jr3EMrRKobxnwYab 7/zBeO5HUFaTrr+TVCQS6nqSgn7jG9kIiDtoqFRR+UDTrSruS1ABFvb1QBXBHJg5aU2l wv92bDEK0K8+fC77q8vKAJuvlhRre2aCB3sAbiVgrN+vDscf2eu/znN0ZAT8mjEl/26x Jhrg== X-Gm-Message-State: AIVw111vKLS5TASg0SZakUxUF15+nJU3NiR8Qdw5lqzyBTUq6aLFF9/w nGseb9sjmRm7V/Lufqub3g== X-Received: by 10.98.178.15 with SMTP id x15mr32740221pfe.75.1499461433492; Fri, 07 Jul 2017 14:03:53 -0700 (PDT) Received: from ?IPv6:2602:306:cf77:df90:ece3:5fed:de5b:51da? ([2602:306:cf77:df90:ece3:5fed:de5b:51da]) by smtp.gmail.com with ESMTPSA id 74sm8705960pfh.49.2017.07.07.14.03.52 for (version=TLS1 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-AES128-SHA bits=128/128); Fri, 07 Jul 2017 14:03:52 -0700 (PDT) From: Mahesh Jethanandani Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="Apple-Mail=_0C78B861-FEB5-4250-A8FA-ED972A22CBDD" Message-Id: <4BB59D41-8DC2-4900-A461-95E359FA321D@gmail.com> Date: Fri, 7 Jul 2017 14:03:51 -0700 To: NetMod WG Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 9.3 \(3124\)) X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.3124) Archived-At: Subject: [netmod] draft-ietf-netmod-acl-model-11 issue #4 X-BeenThere: netmod@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 Precedence: list List-Id: NETMOD WG list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 07 Jul 2017 21:03:56 -0000 --Apple-Mail=_0C78B861-FEB5-4250-A8FA-ED972A22CBDD Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Created issue #4 in github = as "Should this model = include route-policy definition as defined in = draft-ietf-rtgwg-policy-model?=E2=80=9D with the following description: The title says it all. The only note is that the draft in question has = expired, so it is not clear what the status of those definitions are. Mahesh Jethanandani mjethanandani@gmail.com --Apple-Mail=_0C78B861-FEB5-4250-A8FA-ED972A22CBDD Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/html; charset=utf-8
Created = issue #4 in github as "Should this model = include route-policy definition as defined in = draft-ietf-rtgwg-policy-model?=E2=80=9D

with the following = description:

The title says it all. The only note is that the draft = in question has expired, so it is not clear what the status of those = definitions are.


Mahesh Jethanandani
mjethanandani@gmail.com



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17:19:11 -0400 From: "Acee Lindem (acee)" To: Mahesh Jethanandani , NetMod WG Thread-Topic: [netmod] draft-ietf-netmod-acl-model-11 issue #4 Thread-Index: AQHS92SQk6VgfIGUoU+Eqdx56/LIeqJI3omA Date: Fri, 7 Jul 2017 21:19:11 +0000 Message-ID: References: <4BB59D41-8DC2-4900-A461-95E359FA321D@gmail.com> In-Reply-To: <4BB59D41-8DC2-4900-A461-95E359FA321D@gmail.com> Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-ms-exchange-messagesentrepresentingtype: 1 x-ms-exchange-transport-fromentityheader: Hosted x-originating-ip: [10.116.152.196] Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="_000_D58572AFB7575aceeciscocom_" MIME-Version: 1.0 Archived-At: Subject: Re: [netmod] draft-ietf-netmod-acl-model-11 issue #4 X-BeenThere: netmod@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 Precedence: list List-Id: NETMOD WG list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 07 Jul 2017 21:19:15 -0000 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LANG:en; spamdiagnosticoutput: 1:99 spamdiagnosticmetadata: NSPM Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-ID: Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-OriginatorOrg: juniper.net X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-originalarrivaltime: 07 Jul 2017 21:22:34.0877 (UTC) X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-fromentityheader: Hosted X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-id: bea78b3c-4cdb-4130-854a-1d193232e5f4 X-MS-Exchange-Transport-CrossTenantHeadersStamped: BN3PR0501MB1218 Archived-At: Subject: [netmod] draft netmod agenda posted X-BeenThere: netmod@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 Precedence: list List-Id: NETMOD WG list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 07 Jul 2017 21:22:38 -0000 DQpUaGUgZHJhZnQgYWdlbmRhIGZvciB0aGUgTkVUTU9EIHNlc3Npb25zIGF0IElFVEYgOTkgaGFz IGJlZW4gcG9zdGVkOg0KDQogIGh0dHBzOi8vZGF0YXRyYWNrZXIuaWV0Zi5vcmcvbWVldGluZy85 OS9hZ2VuZGEvbmV0bW9kLw0KDQpQbGVhc2UgbGV0IHVzIGtub3cgaWYgYW55IGFkanVzdG1lbnRz 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16:00:50 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail-qk0-x22f.google.com (mail-qk0-x22f.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:400d:c09::22f]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 57787129B43 for ; Fri, 7 Jul 2017 16:00:50 -0700 (PDT) Received: by mail-qk0-x22f.google.com with SMTP id v143so39057755qkb.0 for ; Fri, 07 Jul 2017 16:00:50 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20161025; h=mime-version:from:date:message-id:subject:to; bh=MUfYo6cv8IjC73Mpbnzlm0bU6K6e2S0rehPCHZ+fcXc=; b=DSQNkNwdrW4tyaHC7+hFAxkOE8T+DQku+TLYAjTvJ+To4Pp3mKvk3DfguBIPS974Wv S9VeauDUNiwasE/IOIKUh6XY06Sws3uCeUmfnGrPKRJA9IDv6TvYHfcGA6ossWIafpps OmFCgc5WYvLE9r33uKuSY8KUBRs5ucmQ38shNVqePTSodYFtuORTWo2H5EpFV7EuzBkE li69hNkAqdmtbmL2mUp0vtBUQ3zauwpi0cJhQCz31iYjgjBSza6ZO4dWyYFHNtfBHJck v05Bhr7lFcKeO/bi5qp7zHGKh4EXMbWSiLnaeFkaRxGoDEV6Co1Frra+0LLpYZN+5OGh tsbQ== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:from:date:message-id:subject:to; bh=MUfYo6cv8IjC73Mpbnzlm0bU6K6e2S0rehPCHZ+fcXc=; b=De9tw1qpE+EBqpdXmHTRMboS+zDNh3ciiP5dF4F3SVAjrdjpR0YPrvQEMs6IMC+nKE SZgqUlLZa7bWbZPXX7oSJDBrUN8x8okWBghI0sgAVXg1yty0icXp9HVyyNIe1GMD39dr lWTZG81wiICMOinjv1KxKb5H9w4s/Z8RL+ZtVt5rziDAvBb6SW62RLyy0osScIPd2qEy URUWaGo9GBrclzF1lT7h12eHAYVbTOhGjfSbQUssVh9VAOdpe0tEbjGPknNmXYmOCS4d EcqAbvdhrbwWH8/fSv1HJ6VpvLr8MGMHv3YXZZgS1SW8zqTGBKRyPfx7Pwq0CSl64EV9 nirQ== X-Gm-Message-State: AKS2vOxgPpe1vyrScA3DDlrvvY0Bs1TPr5/+hRu8NTRjvaQ+SzPFbV6h dQD3pX5RmlvQNhDVdKUlOvfB6q3m1KH9 X-Received: by 10.55.167.1 with SMTP id q1mr73503124qke.223.1499468449328; Fri, 07 Jul 2017 16:00:49 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.140.97.73 with HTTP; Fri, 7 Jul 2017 16:00:48 -0700 (PDT) From: Sonal Agarwal Date: Fri, 7 Jul 2017 16:00:48 -0700 Message-ID: To: netmod@ietf.org Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="001a114fdcf446331d0553c2349e" Archived-At: Subject: [netmod] ACL: Issue 5: The TCP flags container is a leaf. This allows only 1 TCP value to be specified per ACE. X-BeenThere: netmod@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 Precedence: list List-Id: NETMOD WG list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 07 Jul 2017 23:00:52 -0000 --001a114fdcf446331d0553c2349e Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" https://github.com/netmod-wg/acl-model/issues/5 leaf flags { type uint16; description "Also known as Control Bits. Contains 9 1-bit flags."; } Further, the TCP flags are not defined in the model. The improvements to this would be: 1. The data structure to store the TCP flags should be a leaf list. 2. The values could be defined to be something like: identity TCP_FLAGS { description "Common TCP flags used in packet header matches"; reference "IETF RFC 793 - Transmission Control Protocol IETF RFC 3168 - The Addition of Explicit Congestion Notification (ECN) to IP"; } identity TCP_SYN { base TCP_FLAGS; description "TCP SYN flag"; } ... ... and so on. --001a114fdcf446331d0553c2349e Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable 
<=
span style=3D"font-size:11.9px">https://github.com/netmod-wg/acl-model/issues/5=

leaf flags {
  type uint16;
  description
    "Also known as Control Bits. Contains 9 1-bit flags.";
}

Further, the T= CP flags are not defined in the model.

The improvements to this would be:

  1. The data structure to store the TCP flags should be a = leaf list.
  2. The values could be defined to be something like:

identity TCP_FLAGS {
description
"Common TCP flags used in packet header matches";
reference
"= IETF RFC 793 - Transmission Control Protocol
IETF RFC 3168 - The Addition of Explicit Congestion
Notification (ECN) to IP";
}

identity TCP_= SYN {
base TCP_FLAGS;
description
"TCP S= YN flag";
}
...
...

and so on.

--001a114fdcf446331d0553c2349e-- From nobody Fri Jul 7 16:19:14 2017 Return-Path: X-Original-To: netmod@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: netmod@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id B5348126D73 for ; Fri, 7 Jul 2017 16:19:13 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.749 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.749 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, FREEMAIL_ENVFROM_END_DIGIT=0.25, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=no autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=gmail.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id Cvs_CYBBE1Yh for ; Fri, 7 Jul 2017 16:19:12 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail-qt0-x22d.google.com (mail-qt0-x22d.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:400d:c0d::22d]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 923EE1200C1 for ; Fri, 7 Jul 2017 16:19:12 -0700 (PDT) Received: by mail-qt0-x22d.google.com with SMTP id i2so38703592qta.3 for ; Fri, 07 Jul 2017 16:19:12 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20161025; h=mime-version:from:date:message-id:subject:to; bh=O/VD9GJJUEY+zhvYHRkcUhxjvPDGujJV9DyMDPRR/fk=; b=WxP7UypgyaK4D/cDvaavxplcs4t9ljCmyKAnh3VQb1t03ErM7rtYHxOuMwaqSG7MNm 5gDhxrEZTm6XF/XN9YA4Pj3RunbsusVVHKZWwrWqdVAlpzsatUQa3BJQnCUe939+d/RO C/MIiHTLkeKPT+veT7KYaml4PZnHyH3ERPjIU+djxqidvKd9lifM+EF3HL15EGUWGzAr a2kG2Q4DdJB6b8W4lVhc5xNGgjKy1gJ87g/ucVYELUP6ENHuamizbJVAc1PQzR5uiB54 DvxtAmdldGT1GUbbAvG2wO0kaBdwHe+ams4Ur5RzqEua/V2Ne1mTwcDE5WTP+ULVOGR5 mk7A== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:from:date:message-id:subject:to; bh=O/VD9GJJUEY+zhvYHRkcUhxjvPDGujJV9DyMDPRR/fk=; b=YPxvLd/bdYhyAkl4QRd+6f3TrjLY94U4wLdOPaWeT2EkUNjjI1i+Ox2yKGoL/W5fqk dN63Zg1rp7/a4Rqni2mW4pnCsz1dxyAUfgDUJWaD0wQ3VeBqDSuBmFUzturpmSQS406X VisG1e7louhA0hPVP0BHG3Giec18sa2Tvpu60Nn1IOs3+y38nedKMEmZQOpCdrCDJmTl jCEK7cSEUbpAEHR4G7NT14dD/FHg891/8/ciLuZhC9mI3BeFDhytu/OiRDF0w5o2Zylq 3+VEpyo/zJpU8Nmzzo4aaWdXHeAUN2CipgTH51f8iyWFhmKa+WBa+YTjDpb5caKXiI3H A5eg== X-Gm-Message-State: AKS2vOxSvoc2o4LkwrgnuIFNa0UsvkD9us1mNQZKQEcgEtU+0ktgw7XQ MhUoTyPXTt/DuNUfbp6TR+8rZlidJn8O X-Received: by 10.200.50.2 with SMTP id x2mr75892496qta.23.1499469551390; Fri, 07 Jul 2017 16:19:11 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.140.97.73 with HTTP; Fri, 7 Jul 2017 16:19:11 -0700 (PDT) From: Sonal Agarwal Date: Fri, 7 Jul 2017 16:19:11 -0700 Message-ID: To: netmod@ietf.org Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="001a11434486f654f50553c27578" Archived-At: Subject: [netmod] ACL: draft-ietf-netmod-acl-model-11: Issue 6 : Source/dest ports should contain an operator field #6 X-BeenThere: netmod@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 Precedence: list List-Id: NETMOD WG list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 07 Jul 2017 23:19:13 -0000 --001a11434486f654f50553c27578 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" The source and destination ports should contain an operator field which can have values of lt, gt, eq, neq and range. --001a11434486f654f50553c27578 Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
The source and destination ports should contain an operator fie= ld which can have values of lt, gt, eq, neq and range.
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Input-interface is missing as a match criteria.=
--94eb2c0504401d1d300553c280a0-- From nobody Fri Jul 7 16:23:35 2017 Return-Path: X-Original-To: netmod@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: netmod@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id C70ED126D73 for ; Fri, 7 Jul 2017 16:23:33 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.449 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.449 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, FREEMAIL_ENVFROM_END_DIGIT=0.25, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW=-0.7, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=gmail.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id ZD7XvZYBvl6R for ; Fri, 7 Jul 2017 16:23:32 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail-qk0-x233.google.com (mail-qk0-x233.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:400d:c09::233]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 5203F127601 for ; Fri, 7 Jul 2017 16:23:32 -0700 (PDT) Received: by mail-qk0-x233.google.com with SMTP id p21so39257099qke.3 for ; Fri, 07 Jul 2017 16:23:32 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20161025; h=mime-version:from:date:message-id:subject:to; bh=WzC69HlhP4IKmjDOoYzW9iHKs/0BxA22pUtgcLL/lr8=; b=X4Pj7CK7+Gp8NT8RICCujvCRB8em31xHf1tvhomjm3ReMN1tRLxlBfcHwQaeRa1/hW 9ovKF5xIQ++afhQTDKtHk7Tbrvoi2sIQlYEiB5MknBVB3WeshrfVxdPFYY3BHJPiiw9H CcZE/atcmUggwkZokOSUhz/iA1VCGDyaHgg1kBpQ8/Px35JRB6Iobs37RNCNPdcEh1Ra Qwsd/j8T5dWe3G1jhIiRPdz4PBSSjiyQg5wAA90mFbusY0XzJI332v+TPhaQDNk1AGvP QQ/PdZVIB/9cohfxqBsA1C/7v+tJXIuSYFG5CUdD1uynSXLo5cb7Jog76MNUVJWZyK6w BqSQ== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:from:date:message-id:subject:to; bh=WzC69HlhP4IKmjDOoYzW9iHKs/0BxA22pUtgcLL/lr8=; b=bot3pSkYeiwtjdkgdYvvTXItRq4daofm0Dh5NLWTXxJMBWrzfVqHBpEX+NZ02rLBTi t2VxOVjWAyXdsKIggT33x6YTzC5mvZmPDQIEX8G5L79MPmLDMivk2DXYdalsUdDXOZ28 2XXPj9275VSRad/fojkrBm1CE+vNmPfshMo3K3a93AdSwvqUNdOI1OzHFvJ+oMVrHT8U NinOhMlaFRBwa3hOOeMP2JLsuOMyQ8wQaYVdH0EsGH4BGlGJaloKhkKR3cvqhDQUtmV+ gqe6FoZbKS1R7FiokAjz468rUVX7u5kM9mHEPYvSoM8IB5FhPuTrnzrjei+KwUQM+psP JQnA== X-Gm-Message-State: AKS2vOzIMWjtPRsMRbc7Wd4/IqoYaQic2yVOhBcv1GuDTCardbUMTBAX He0eYI74ee5HVuIMFLLFckZiSV88IXMi X-Received: by 10.55.156.193 with SMTP id f184mr67895252qke.102.1499469811491; Fri, 07 Jul 2017 16:23:31 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.140.97.73 with HTTP; Fri, 7 Jul 2017 16:23:31 -0700 (PDT) From: Sonal Agarwal Date: Fri, 7 Jul 2017 16:23:31 -0700 Message-ID: To: netmod@ietf.org Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="94eb2c074df877294e0553c28576" Archived-At: Subject: [netmod] ACL: draft-ietf-netmod-acl-model-11: Issue 8: dscp missing as a match criteria X-BeenThere: netmod@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 Precedence: list List-Id: NETMOD WG list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 07 Jul 2017 23:23:34 -0000 --94eb2c074df877294e0553c28576 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" The model is missing "dscp" attribute in the match criteria. --94eb2c074df877294e0553c28576 Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
The model is missing "dscp" attribute in the match cr= iteria.
--94eb2c074df877294e0553c28576-- From nobody Fri Jul 7 16:24:37 2017 Return-Path: X-Original-To: netmod@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: netmod@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6AE5E12EB52 for ; Fri, 7 Jul 2017 16:24:35 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.749 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.749 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, FREEMAIL_ENVFROM_END_DIGIT=0.25, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=no autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=gmail.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id blxC0qmjpNif for ; Fri, 7 Jul 2017 16:24:34 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail-qt0-x233.google.com (mail-qt0-x233.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:400d:c0d::233]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 02D6C127601 for ; Fri, 7 Jul 2017 16:24:34 -0700 (PDT) Received: by mail-qt0-x233.google.com with SMTP id b40so38763906qtb.2 for ; Fri, 07 Jul 2017 16:24:33 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20161025; h=mime-version:from:date:message-id:subject:to; bh=51IJPZly2CoMlLfe5t4/aQ3LJURBlqjbu/ejrsJSW1E=; b=W2NS3qIE0veiZbAwNsFbAJiyQudES8rYXu+w6bRINBFg3PwT1BaoWLt6bUEn5Mc6O/ S1Jy8PjB5p48QYcwOaocbMRnLsmd+hXgze8CeBqduqZBygj/EXoCvrgJU6AaTognWoQW UIKQGeQk8ltGRGarcNspvPh8+y7VVEYJ8iJGdjeYsve4bBUZXbeYGFJ3SMCDAaEfXRuw wudqb8Dj+35v3Fhvctwi+7vBl1PgC/VM1WNnvR+8Sf8qjZkXbiiHEOXEOaYLkGubLqGG CIZA6HnyPUzLcps9Tw+/Er83at1pBs4vYmvXKVOlJcXw8HkryRM9bukBaIeJkxRhQy0p 79hQ== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:from:date:message-id:subject:to; bh=51IJPZly2CoMlLfe5t4/aQ3LJURBlqjbu/ejrsJSW1E=; b=LWX9nNrACz53cfUXef5twF1l9yZIAu4oQ9dh5SsxZyGlAUBiMs+fp6aL2XzAiv6VMh 7smWFpcnQHys/BuSrrNX6kHrOIqIfyiVOXrJ7sXZFplY8UwyTz+NqsYZp8aEBLEla6Yy cpDVUZUJOXyO1E9KKU9bvkoNWQJBWuKp+bk9d/gOSEp4zq2H3euDpMRUM8P6gJqJ/had 3k7bnxhTttcZzOVfU/8huynMX9lv7fLE7+U3OTMf3mn0t01m+7yn3EzajD3i5Zuo+xow PmmwmUQh3sucsQD08QX1/jnok6lG+P39gQGZn2M87XJpvPavV3Tc6Ir4qbdBXSXITCup TH2A== X-Gm-Message-State: AKS2vOxSdV7tbsOBfNoP/IatSbAB80G7M+IUL2D46yhLi/EDfBL2MSXw nFYhnbYfxrTuFc3NAjwbsT3sz/lgJYfi X-Received: by 10.200.45.59 with SMTP id n56mr67535825qta.15.1499469873160; Fri, 07 Jul 2017 16:24:33 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.140.97.73 with HTTP; Fri, 7 Jul 2017 16:24:32 -0700 (PDT) From: Sonal Agarwal Date: Fri, 7 Jul 2017 16:24:32 -0700 Message-ID: To: netmod@ietf.org Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="001a1142ae362427de0553c28919" Archived-At: Subject: [netmod] ACL: draft-ietf-netmod-acl-model-11: issue 9: Precedence missing in model X-BeenThere: netmod@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 Precedence: list List-Id: NETMOD WG list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 07 Jul 2017 23:24:35 -0000 --001a1142ae362427de0553c28919 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Precedence does not appear as a match criteria in the model. --001a1142ae362427de0553c28919 Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Precedence does not appear as a match criteria in the model.
--001a1142ae362427de0553c28919-- From nobody Fri Jul 7 16:25:29 2017 Return-Path: X-Original-To: netmod@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: netmod@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 95DB012ECAD for ; Fri, 7 Jul 2017 16:25:28 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.749 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.749 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, FREEMAIL_ENVFROM_END_DIGIT=0.25, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=no autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=gmail.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id nX2xcX-TftNt for ; Fri, 7 Jul 2017 16:25:27 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail-qt0-x234.google.com (mail-qt0-x234.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:400d:c0d::234]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 6CA6012EB52 for ; Fri, 7 Jul 2017 16:25:27 -0700 (PDT) Received: by mail-qt0-x234.google.com with SMTP id 32so38805683qtv.1 for ; Fri, 07 Jul 2017 16:25:27 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20161025; h=mime-version:from:date:message-id:subject:to; bh=++j40cPPBWk5MKUOJa5G+Sb9yAsecx3MhlYX5lZdnOk=; b=OcpsigGTejnkUdOv9RubdNojzHfFiSCK0RpklKmvfoD92Sl6VjIQZfIL+fW9/jQzJ9 AfOZJcFZDWXCfEPL+aUWHA0dD+sdrAqPD1cavopcwIf24r8ARl+NK+2YHs8YNj6FNx9B GjWGEBhSo2UC8iCWw5igELE3zdaKVg/1V6ExtZ8tssAyJLGyJUoBfdN8eZLiv1bUJiRb lS8svFiJJQQxjB3qX7kTKEowtE3QDDB6RDReqjjZRd7wUvz8RK62Sekh+o5gDfsow6D8 +FQT1Wqdb1FkSKNCp9wL7pwHE5K/+RT+5j6aD+5ZvdLF6E+DUFvZKSvdvOdg4Bv9p7fO 6olA== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:from:date:message-id:subject:to; bh=++j40cPPBWk5MKUOJa5G+Sb9yAsecx3MhlYX5lZdnOk=; b=TPEsctLi/YkgpRgA45VGQjJGC0J4ZvBXTswOLIn7a97mQPPlFSIb9lwQj87jEJSs+o 6xAg10IF6qBOx7YX05j13KZK9r2aaPfNAvaCwCSyHzJki/yhliicWusPf2LPbnlbIcgX 61lkYoB6rNinCFtBV91T6uXmZceRi7PJnMIednT+OqGiNc/znEQkXZn+NiS79jHZMkJn hBJttDbdcXmQThpiNGLFxeDyIvYE6ptlxAyHsperZiUSyfPJtbo59QLOLI2rl1yWcvZ4 7pWwYsblOabXOd57ZJSCktM43QhnhbYq23x589b+/RiZirxsVn4Gb25pLCgrYB6yUR3y zdLA== X-Gm-Message-State: AKS2vOykJl+owfa0T8yuMIUS0CfqTjWVOnEqRzfEzqS654QyePfa6kXW Uo3kqF4wJfKEJaVYN/wd66PZGBvaQU9D X-Received: by 10.200.11.65 with SMTP id m1mr65962006qti.229.1499469926599; Fri, 07 Jul 2017 16:25:26 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.140.97.73 with HTTP; Fri, 7 Jul 2017 16:25:26 -0700 (PDT) From: Sonal Agarwal Date: Fri, 7 Jul 2017 16:25:26 -0700 Message-ID: To: netmod@ietf.org Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="089e0822b728538f820553c28c73" Archived-At: Subject: [netmod] ACL: draft-ietf-netmod-acl-model-11: Issue 10: icmp-off missing in the model X-BeenThere: netmod@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 Precedence: list List-Id: NETMOD WG list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 07 Jul 2017 23:25:29 -0000 --089e0822b728538f820553c28c73 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" icmp-off is missing as an action criteria in the model. --089e0822b728538f820553c28c73 Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
icmp-off is missing as an action criteria in the model.<= br>
--089e0822b728538f820553c28c73-- From nobody Fri Jul 7 16:26:46 2017 Return-Path: X-Original-To: netmod@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: netmod@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7B057129AEB for ; Fri, 7 Jul 2017 16:26:45 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.749 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.749 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, FREEMAIL_ENVFROM_END_DIGIT=0.25, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=no autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=gmail.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id c6cwCJog-efX for ; Fri, 7 Jul 2017 16:26:44 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail-qt0-x230.google.com (mail-qt0-x230.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:400d:c0d::230]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 57744127601 for ; Fri, 7 Jul 2017 16:26:44 -0700 (PDT) Received: by mail-qt0-x230.google.com with SMTP id r30so38847039qtc.0 for ; Fri, 07 Jul 2017 16:26:44 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20161025; h=mime-version:from:date:message-id:subject:to; bh=nFGrC9SeCGgDPUe9xB2dixXJlJOztQkdhM2xVWr2vQI=; b=Ko9ylRIoqhlbW6cbo3mRa0if3i8J3mnw2fiXNfLAsYrXpA6zcb+SyNK8ab7wcVCwdO WONcm79QNwLTL/H/7Y8LkHe2XHTvXJmXgihKI1Vkhkv3e9I5gPBrcuaoGzldMj7brQBt WwfipHJrfaexHmR2jdxcgM+MerHKs8PuLKHlOhnGaToTLTOKkesG7Ln45oUmHPJvB5uy NOmShHRUJzL7nlXyfacNMnKmW12kdGx0IFkBkG+ePuy9pWIujUXYqqqhsDlOKp27Y+Pt /gfIcYC2agnBwzZmlstJ3XW8XrOhmV4A/D9Bwm6O4GtwRRI8IV9n6s3a+N+sBve2nk9j smQw== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:from:date:message-id:subject:to; bh=nFGrC9SeCGgDPUe9xB2dixXJlJOztQkdhM2xVWr2vQI=; b=LvpmHFVsUn22px1Irn1rJDAPdbRyX118ubkxFcsl6j9lmYh0NqaXukaiCohOKyvU7T oUtoG0u1GocbwI9gatXiCEwLvVhJOE73kCdBVWCGjwKDZI4BaNutOKlMgLlHnu679va+ La08pT1qkLEwSszHCDcHboKeqmyuT0WUMZhvq+OQupCthW0LFyM75btAyepy3pbpX/8s w/tUA6CjV6PtaY4G+jIpEp+Gnev5asH1ycTUCQ5Wz3L+cjQMeHzuKmpu4tZv8DyM492R BAi5GYdigD1nf0pR0IaDyAv6xtTFiIJ3k2fH+kLL7tboXANldicKY/FwMTLXe+119Pg+ 9b0Q== X-Gm-Message-State: AKS2vOxwA3iXEtzN1rnc9kUMJk/w8ZklS5HpSCMWcepUn29XO7YBPGH2 VAeewbZKe8KtOgUAzaQPiIOLPGlNSqCp X-Received: by 10.200.40.73 with SMTP id 9mr73377311qtr.37.1499470003513; Fri, 07 Jul 2017 16:26:43 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.140.97.73 with HTTP; Fri, 7 Jul 2017 16:26:43 -0700 (PDT) From: Sonal Agarwal Date: Fri, 7 Jul 2017 16:26:43 -0700 Message-ID: To: netmod@ietf.org Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="001a11411a5ce92ef80553c290bc" Archived-At: Subject: [netmod] ACL: draft-ietf-netmod-acl-model-11: Issue 11: Stats collection X-BeenThere: netmod@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 Precedence: list List-Id: NETMOD WG list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 07 Jul 2017 23:26:45 -0000 --001a11411a5ce92ef80553c290bc Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Dataplane stats are gathered in a variety of ways. For e.g. dataplace could gather stats only per interface, per interface per ACL, aggregated over all interfaces, per ACE, per ACE per interface. The model currently does not have the capability to reflect this. --001a11411a5ce92ef80553c290bc Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Dataplane stats are gathered in a variety of ways. For e.g. dat= aplace could gather stats only per interface, per interface per ACL, aggreg= ated over all interfaces, per ACE, per ACE per interface. The model current= ly does not have the capability to reflect this.
--001a11411a5ce92ef80553c290bc-- From nobody Fri Jul 7 16:37:25 2017 Return-Path: X-Original-To: netmod@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: netmod@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 140A1120725 for ; Fri, 7 Jul 2017 16:37:24 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.749 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.749 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, FREEMAIL_ENVFROM_END_DIGIT=0.25, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=no autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=gmail.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id MCoS0VfZsIi6 for ; Fri, 7 Jul 2017 16:37:22 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail-qt0-x233.google.com (mail-qt0-x233.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:400d:c0d::233]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id A85F712EC03 for ; Fri, 7 Jul 2017 16:37:22 -0700 (PDT) Received: by mail-qt0-x233.google.com with SMTP id b40so38893034qtb.2 for ; Fri, 07 Jul 2017 16:37:22 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20161025; h=mime-version:from:date:message-id:subject:to; bh=ja+7hgT+IcVRNOFFwLv9uPcU7LY0EFQU9ugVOQOj58o=; b=IPtkGQHjwuiUZbo6omkGwIrGVKUqSODLS48wkab8YiaqTo0NlNQB6Vttvzbxn1+13F 6952oNIHiOTY7tzgzCE612D91yiwo3TwCX/uxZFhA7uf6PyObxqSw5BgLWtWTtoElLxh r9SXiEchmNgaZD/zq0MiVRTAe3ENiXWo70aqK1UBFrM/z41JRzYjZwqEgNCRQUZ6lrvH EMD6vn8lsMS1b2mkEzNMFs0V1NaxdrANxQ6XGB+SDQ764pD1Ghub5k+Gptgx+jPwcZB7 K7r3uPMetFdNFvNmEJL42eYAzE57qaYCk7/PupP9rB+pj6509O5Y9JRYvxbBBnicmwvo WeqQ== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:from:date:message-id:subject:to; bh=ja+7hgT+IcVRNOFFwLv9uPcU7LY0EFQU9ugVOQOj58o=; b=mY7nTmAdP5RM3jKtEZ30VfpvJ7J+E1jG6WuFPYvWTtd7vtRW6nSJJ9y4iI58zVBgre i5wKJCE7OGMC3nzXdrcOgKVgcx0TUcfqc+DXoLBthsDomUfSkgZ6ycPmsvnBoEjFtMyD w3M/zBWtOSXNsL9rDyqbzsjbrOvoa3CAMhzvw4RYduvN2J8PlCyjOuhvX0/IgbFtnSTY HQTlkdzlUrp3jJdSuy9JGCdJHaPaq4uUXKnY/ggfoRWoofyDr0PXxS/85OTlHqAPA0sZ 1ThNrDrEdGPQEaQZW/8xDfDLd6y11J/CaWm1N/FHqGIWzqZLOylbjcqMvqzRj0xSRO92 P1+A== X-Gm-Message-State: AKS2vOwB41TVHjgP49Jw3mF0Ttmyzera0xtZaPy8/U8wzJiorG2mxryC fAMrN7MswhJGVBaf2U6tvnuYu8B+GNll X-Received: by 10.200.37.98 with SMTP id 31mr74502397qtn.92.1499470641844; Fri, 07 Jul 2017 16:37:21 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.140.97.73 with HTTP; Fri, 7 Jul 2017 16:37:21 -0700 (PDT) From: Sonal Agarwal Date: Fri, 7 Jul 2017 16:37:21 -0700 Message-ID: To: netmod@ietf.org Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="001a11403cdcf555140553c2b648" Archived-At: Subject: [netmod] ACL: draft-ietf-netmod-acl-model-11: Issue 12: ACL yang model does not define application of ACL(s) to an interface X-BeenThere: netmod@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 Precedence: list List-Id: NETMOD WG list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 07 Jul 2017 23:37:24 -0000 --001a11403cdcf555140553c2b648 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Currently, the yang model does not define the application of an ACL to an interface. Different platforms can also support multiple ACL's on an interface. ACL's should be supported as a list in both ingress and egress directions. --001a11403cdcf555140553c2b648 Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Currently, the yang model does not define the application of an= ACL to an interface. Different platforms can also support multiple ACL'= ;s on an interface. ACL's should be supported as a list in both ingress= and egress directions.
--001a11403cdcf555140553c2b648-- From nobody Mon Jul 10 01:31:28 2017 Return-Path: X-Original-To: netmod@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: netmod@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1C92E126C3D for ; Mon, 10 Jul 2017 01:31:27 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -7.001 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-7.001 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_HI=-5, RP_MATCHES_RCVD=-0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (1024-bit key) header.d=nic.cz Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id fvY5sXr-a9Ni for ; Mon, 10 Jul 2017 01:31:25 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail.nic.cz (mail.nic.cz [IPv6:2001:1488:800:400::400]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 40FC512F28A for ; Mon, 10 Jul 2017 01:31:24 -0700 (PDT) Received: from [192.168.43.183] (cst-prg-75-27.cust.vodafone.cz [46.135.75.27]) by mail.nic.cz (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 4D3D460937 for ; Mon, 10 Jul 2017 10:31:22 +0200 (CEST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/simple; d=nic.cz; s=default; t=1499675482; bh=83LUncIpxJoZtAuHNObfw7lbsqTbLpEK/pfH2bxDkDo=; h=From:Date:To; b=R6ATy3vvuoI8afxjFg8upOo/XVGiZG60sjRztMyJc6tqlgqtmceT6hG4x0PjSINZE Z88hY9xtINXoppcLLpM9U/63de8/9Hr/KZofdWTTGmD8L5KMpByhsiVFktclVTtB0l 9G4g4K606UQlxRy2xlYbYJricnKJxh6AaHsD1UkQ= From: Ladislav Lhotka Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 10.3 \(3273\)) Date: Mon, 10 Jul 2017 10:31:21 +0200 References: To: NETMOD WG In-Reply-To: Message-Id: <33299B6B-DA56-45FD-AD91-2879BD877FA2@nic.cz> X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.3273) X-Virus-Scanned: clamav-milter 0.99.2 at mail X-Virus-Status: Clean Archived-At: Subject: Re: [netmod] [netmod-wg/acl-model] TCP flags values not defined and only single flag allowed (#5) X-BeenThere: netmod@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 Precedence: list List-Id: NETMOD WG list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 10 Jul 2017 08:31:27 -0000 Hi, is it necessary to post these GitHub issues one by one to the WG mailing = list? Thanks, Lada > On 8 Jul 2017, at 00:28, sonal1204 wrote: >=20 > The TCP flags container is a leaf. This allows only 1 TCP value to be = specified per ACE. >=20 > leaf flags { > type uint16; > description > "Also known as Control Bits. Contains 9 1-bit flags."; > } >=20 > Further, the TCP flags are not defined in the model. >=20 > The improvements to this would be: >=20 > =E2=80=A2 The data structure to store the TCP flags should be a = leaf list. > =E2=80=A2 The values could be defined to be something like: > identity ETHERTYPE { > description > "Base identity for commonly used Ethertype values used > in packet header matches on Ethernet frames. The Ethertype > indicates which protocol is encapsulated in the Ethernet > payload."; > reference > "IEEE 802.3"; > } >=20 > identity ETHERTYPE_IPV4 { > base ETHERTYPE; > description > "IPv4 protocol (0x0800)"; > } >=20 > ... > ... >=20 > and so on. >=20 > =E2=80=94 > You are receiving this because you are subscribed to this thread. > Reply to this email directly, view it on GitHub, or mute the thread. >=20 -- Ladislav Lhotka Head, CZ.NIC Labs PGP Key ID: 0xB8F92B08A9F76C67 From nobody Mon Jul 10 01:53:29 2017 Return-Path: X-Original-To: netmod@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: netmod@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3C637131678 for ; Mon, 10 Jul 2017 01:53:27 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -14.503 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-14.503 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_HI=-5, RP_MATCHES_RCVD=-0.001, SPF_HELO_PASS=-0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, USER_IN_DEF_DKIM_WL=-7.5] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (1024-bit key) header.d=cisco.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id YzRzkRC4wKbV for ; Mon, 10 Jul 2017 01:53:25 -0700 (PDT) Received: from aer-iport-3.cisco.com (aer-iport-3.cisco.com [173.38.203.53]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher DHE-RSA-SEED-SHA (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 48E2B12EBFA for ; Mon, 10 Jul 2017 01:53:25 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/simple; d=cisco.com; i=@cisco.com; l=3233; q=dns/txt; s=iport; t=1499676805; x=1500886405; h=subject:to:references:from:message-id:date:mime-version: in-reply-to; bh=HKhLG1sWcq803dHkqaMa/AHzFwexJDgp/sGdspkfeJ8=; b=Oz45/ceTJD/OftYlMo3QDGczglGfJckZCi4tjONRFujCFwEzNvbgTFlS eVnPxp/cCOMhkUWvzE7NNYnmKsP/nwarTGGsgdNRdq/ayykNT3djW6d7c GIjM0iD1qzvj6dRfrM/TkpBfOuRcZfkvaRaFRccx5QUHDYLrf/thh6CEh s=; X-Files: signature.asc : 481 X-IronPort-Anti-Spam-Filtered: true X-IronPort-Anti-Spam-Result: =?us-ascii?q?A0DGAAAYQGNZ/xbLJq1UCRkBAQEBAQEBA?= =?us-ascii?q?QEBAQcBAQEBAYQ+gRSOCXOQVSKWBIIRBxoLhSFPAoQRGAECAQEBAQEBAWsohRk?= =?us-ascii?q?BAQEDAQEhSxsLGCoCAicwBgEMBgIBAYorEKpggiaLPQEBAQEBAQEBAQEBAQEBA?= =?us-ascii?q?QEBAREKBYMohVgLgm6EOwgKAYMvgmEBBJ8ehCqCHY1DiyaGfJVAHzh/CzEhCBs?= =?us-ascii?q?VSYVIgVA+NoY2gjABAQE?= X-IronPort-AV: E=Sophos;i="5.40,339,1496102400"; d="asc'?scan'208";a="654164380" Received: from aer-iport-nat.cisco.com (HELO aer-core-1.cisco.com) ([173.38.203.22]) by aer-iport-3.cisco.com with ESMTP/TLS/DHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384; 10 Jul 2017 08:53:21 +0000 Received: from [10.61.241.136] ([10.61.241.136]) by aer-core-1.cisco.com (8.14.5/8.14.5) with ESMTP id v6A8rKiF027884; Mon, 10 Jul 2017 08:53:20 GMT To: Ladislav Lhotka , NETMOD WG References: <33299B6B-DA56-45FD-AD91-2879BD877FA2@nic.cz> From: Eliot Lear Message-ID: Date: Mon, 10 Jul 2017 10:53:20 +0200 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Macintosh; Intel Mac OS X 10.12; rv:52.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/52.2.1 MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: <33299B6B-DA56-45FD-AD91-2879BD877FA2@nic.cz> Content-Type: multipart/signed; micalg=pgp-sha256; protocol="application/pgp-signature"; boundary="17lTe7r4vdmeDXggJRMq6Ex0HOrhw9nkf" Archived-At: Subject: Re: [netmod] [netmod-wg/acl-model] TCP flags values not defined and only single flag allowed (#5) X-BeenThere: netmod@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 Precedence: list List-Id: NETMOD WG list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 10 Jul 2017 08:53:27 -0000 This is an OpenPGP/MIME signed message (RFC 4880 and 3156) --17lTe7r4vdmeDXggJRMq6Ex0HOrhw9nkf Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="RPEIJlJIsKBv47AvbBukW3aXdcuJWgMSS"; protected-headers="v1" From: Eliot Lear To: Ladislav Lhotka , NETMOD WG Message-ID: Subject: Re: [netmod] [netmod-wg/acl-model] TCP flags values not defined and only single flag allowed (#5) References: <33299B6B-DA56-45FD-AD91-2879BD877FA2@nic.cz> In-Reply-To: <33299B6B-DA56-45FD-AD91-2879BD877FA2@nic.cz> --RPEIJlJIsKBv47AvbBukW3aXdcuJWgMSS Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Language: en-US What would you prefer? That way they can be knocked down one by one, without the bunch getting intertwined. On 7/10/17 10:31 AM, Ladislav Lhotka wrote: > Hi, > > is it necessary to post these GitHub issues one by one to the WG mailin= g list? > > Thanks, Lada > >> On 8 Jul 2017, at 00:28, sonal1204 wrote: >> >> The TCP flags container is a leaf. This allows only 1 TCP value to be = specified per ACE. >> >> leaf flags { >> type uint16; >> description >> "Also known as Control Bits. Contains 9 1-bit flags."; >> } >> >> Further, the TCP flags are not defined in the model. >> >> The improvements to this would be: >> >> =E2=80=A2 The data structure to store the TCP flags should be a leaf = list. >> =E2=80=A2 The values could be defined to be something like: >> identity ETHERTYPE { >> description >> "Base identity for commonly used Ethertype values used >> in packet header matches on Ethernet frames. The Ethertype >> indicates which protocol is encapsulated in the Ethernet >> payload."; >> reference >> "IEEE 802.3"; >> } >> >> identity ETHERTYPE_IPV4 { >> base ETHERTYPE; >> description >> "IPv4 protocol (0x0800)"; >> } >> >> ... >> ... >> >> and so on. >> >> =E2=80=94 >> You are receiving this because you are subscribed to this thread. >> Reply to this email directly, view it on GitHub, or mute the thread. >> > -- > Ladislav Lhotka > Head, CZ.NIC Labs > PGP Key ID: 0xB8F92B08A9F76C67 > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > netmod mailing list > netmod@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/netmod --RPEIJlJIsKBv47AvbBukW3aXdcuJWgMSS-- --17lTe7r4vdmeDXggJRMq6Ex0HOrhw9nkf Content-Type: application/pgp-signature; name="signature.asc" Content-Description: OpenPGP digital signature Content-Disposition: attachment; filename="signature.asc" -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG/MacGPG2 v2 iQEcBAEBCAAGBQJZY0CAAAoJEIe2a0bZ0nozhI4IALxIGXa/3ksdGSkJUwXoPG3/ mfqCwjbQoomJoms1YIFIrqBQr9YSA4Fq9O2lyXcAfvANgL9zDQSBUTAFaNgrFlSy pPoIvyyeBavsxxpDkAzBaQ1EaEB6d/GhBP4vIVoPjnyufUgSlFzBZ5oXGmp7Nzq1 ciB6V3P82pdvF0A9AuUSq5OlSXsW0wJVYF4J/3aRn5UWndkKg3/nUKWx7SDThfCy A9o6shu17jcloTRsNbXE2KKvC/bPNbmqO4lM7Rvpr8HMU8YoTlA+FkJWlHNvT2Gi CgK7mIxW8yO66XEAh+IE3SNaGDVk5/O9ygUm9s8RUhfXXI2A/1V3ZZF65LhPqAs= =CzEA -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --17lTe7r4vdmeDXggJRMq6Ex0HOrhw9nkf-- From nobody Mon Jul 10 04:22:04 2017 Return-Path: X-Original-To: netmod@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: netmod@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1895E13169C for ; Mon, 10 Jul 2017 04:22:03 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -7.001 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-7.001 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_HI=-5, RP_MATCHES_RCVD=-0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (1024-bit key) header.d=nic.cz Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 2wWEWz_xRgUy for ; Mon, 10 Jul 2017 04:22:01 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail.nic.cz (mail.nic.cz [IPv6:2001:1488:800:400::400]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id C063413168F for ; Mon, 10 Jul 2017 04:22:00 -0700 (PDT) Received: from [IPv6:2001:718:1a02:1:dd4e:dd55:ce0f:f404] (unknown [IPv6:2001:718:1a02:1:dd4e:dd55:ce0f:f404]) by mail.nic.cz (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id F149560952; Mon, 10 Jul 2017 13:21:58 +0200 (CEST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/simple; d=nic.cz; s=default; t=1499685719; bh=GkaERlgpuqV2mL6OyRKZNcbw+qLH6WQgu/g2e4G0Y48=; h=From:Date:To; b=wt1XfVkiWtolo1DiVkjQtCwroCQSMGeqivzpf46AscFjEr1rCaqTj+lL+2Eh9fOUs rKm85ic4/dO2kLAhgZ5IZZ5aYpUyMggcnL4VjaZk/0ySFxplFgIBRWpE9f1jkqlRp3 5DIPXjl2lO5c8wmWZmpbs0ZVO5kmTKDyNQDlF4FY= From: Ladislav Lhotka Message-Id: <83098619-ED60-40C1-B2DC-C207942C9C49@nic.cz> Content-Type: multipart/signed; boundary="Apple-Mail=_0125D765-668A-4886-BAD0-8E667699C820"; protocol="application/pgp-signature"; micalg=pgp-sha512 Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 10.3 \(3273\)) Date: Mon, 10 Jul 2017 13:21:52 +0200 In-Reply-To: Cc: NETMOD WG To: Eliot Lear References: <33299B6B-DA56-45FD-AD91-2879BD877FA2@nic.cz> X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.3273) X-Virus-Scanned: clamav-milter 0.99.2 at mail X-Virus-Status: Clean Archived-At: Subject: Re: [netmod] [netmod-wg/acl-model] TCP flags values not defined and only single flag allowed (#5) X-BeenThere: netmod@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 Precedence: list List-Id: NETMOD WG list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 10 Jul 2017 11:22:03 -0000 --Apple-Mail=_0125D765-668A-4886-BAD0-8E667699C820 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 > On 10 Jul 2017, at 10:53, Eliot Lear wrote: >=20 > What would you prefer? That way they can be knocked down one by one, > without the bunch getting intertwined. Sure, but the WG should deal with issues of published revisions of = Internet Drafts whereas GitHub issues should (in my view at least) be = dealt with by the authors and other interested folks who can easily = subscribe at GitHub. If everybody does this, the traffic in the mailing list would grow = considerably. I know, one can filter it, but the list archives would get = cluttered, too. Lada >=20 >=20 > On 7/10/17 10:31 AM, Ladislav Lhotka wrote: >> Hi, >>=20 >> is it necessary to post these GitHub issues one by one to the WG = mailing list? >>=20 >> Thanks, Lada >>=20 >>> On 8 Jul 2017, at 00:28, sonal1204 wrote: >>>=20 >>> The TCP flags container is a leaf. This allows only 1 TCP value to = be specified per ACE. >>>=20 >>> leaf flags { >>> type uint16; >>> description >>> "Also known as Control Bits. Contains 9 1-bit flags."; >>> } >>>=20 >>> Further, the TCP flags are not defined in the model. >>>=20 >>> The improvements to this would be: >>>=20 >>> =E2=80=A2 The data structure to store the TCP flags should be a = leaf list. >>> =E2=80=A2 The values could be defined to be something like: >>> identity ETHERTYPE { >>> description >>> "Base identity for commonly used Ethertype values used >>> in packet header matches on Ethernet frames. The Ethertype >>> indicates which protocol is encapsulated in the Ethernet >>> payload."; >>> reference >>> "IEEE 802.3"; >>> } >>>=20 >>> identity ETHERTYPE_IPV4 { >>> base ETHERTYPE; >>> description >>> "IPv4 protocol (0x0800)"; >>> } >>>=20 >>> ... >>> ... >>>=20 >>> and so on. >>>=20 >>> =E2=80=94 >>> You are receiving this because you are subscribed to this thread. >>> Reply to this email directly, view it on GitHub, or mute the thread. >>>=20 >> -- >> Ladislav Lhotka >> Head, CZ.NIC Labs >> PGP Key ID: 0xB8F92B08A9F76C67 >>=20 >>=20 >>=20 >>=20 >>=20 >> _______________________________________________ >> netmod mailing list >> netmod@ietf.org >> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/netmod >=20 >=20 -- Ladislav Lhotka Head, CZ.NIC Labs PGP Key ID: 0xB8F92B08A9F76C67 --Apple-Mail=_0125D765-668A-4886-BAD0-8E667699C820 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: attachment; filename=signature.asc Content-Type: application/pgp-signature; name=signature.asc Content-Description: Message signed with OpenPGP -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- iQEcBAEBCgAGBQJZY2NQAAoJEO5hEMLIs62ekPMH/1yDtbM3SAJhVAFDUS/DSg7c UvYhJ346FELFE78BU8syAy9l+yB5ua5jZZu2rJrzFd3PJCHN6QvElZxijDNmddS1 P4PuM4JtEN0+8SwQRkfn66KmtQ+DAOyYiFiDTckUOlNcPFLsOb40MaoShOghrst9 vKyU/uQcPTHYplJ4eG9O36mnyG0U04km3IkgUgj9V+JopQ/opBvbU/SF1kIE6Nm5 tTKjem30cs0uKiDT3szbOeMHU11EenVv7DqtZI77qqi4caWmiEwShrq59q2NQiLN LaoqhgajPX5gl8XH6rdrNqKLwmjKsV4Ncz2jrPhjY2pId7+2T2CeAkoSrzj5VkY= =uTeM -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --Apple-Mail=_0125D765-668A-4886-BAD0-8E667699C820-- From nobody Mon Jul 10 06:03:49 2017 Return-Path: X-Original-To: netmod@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: netmod@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7E74E13173B for ; Mon, 10 Jul 2017 06:03:47 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -4.701 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-4.701 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_H2=-2.8, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (768-bit key) header.d=labn.net Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 5SphBzeAmbQ8 for ; Mon, 10 Jul 2017 06:03:45 -0700 (PDT) Received: from gproxy6.mail.unifiedlayer.com (gproxy6-pub.mail.unifiedlayer.com [67.222.39.168]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id C51BE124C27 for ; Mon, 10 Jul 2017 06:03:45 -0700 (PDT) Received: from cmgw2 (unknown [10.0.90.83]) by gproxy6.mail.unifiedlayer.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2ECE61E1E31 for ; Mon, 10 Jul 2017 06:36:44 -0600 (MDT) Received: from box313.bluehost.com ([69.89.31.113]) by cmgw2 with id j0cg1v00d2SSUrH010cju9; Mon, 10 Jul 2017 06:36:44 -0600 X-Authority-Analysis: v=2.2 cv=UvYTD64B c=1 sm=1 tr=0 a=h1BC+oY+fLhyFmnTBx92Jg==:117 a=h1BC+oY+fLhyFmnTBx92Jg==:17 a=IkcTkHD0fZMA:10 a=xqWC_Br6kY4A:10 a=G3gG6ho9WtcA:10 a=AUd_NHdVAAAA:8 a=NEAV23lmAAAA:8 a=48vgC7mUAAAA:8 a=Dh2tJ_oXmW_dS2Kf2mUA:9 a=QEXdDO2ut3YA:10 a=w1C3t2QeGrPiZgrLijVG:22 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; q=dns/txt; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=labn.net; s=default; h=Content-Transfer-Encoding:Content-Type:MIME-Version:Subject: References:In-Reply-To:Message-ID:Date:CC:To:From:Sender:Reply-To:Content-ID: Content-Description:Resent-Date:Resent-From:Resent-Sender:Resent-To:Resent-Cc :Resent-Message-ID:List-Id:List-Help:List-Unsubscribe:List-Subscribe: List-Post:List-Owner:List-Archive; bh=2Zi7Xfhz5oJCTAetfbARqTRZCSe/53v6U+vjmjSoUjw=; b=KfPNmCZZ6ZhpwjoJHFNUNsMA/C oy1b60Klf4Gt3vXtnwY3oNd30Vg+Dgr2WNOVcnw5X3hVGF79yFOZm5GuGcwcsE8/Z1DpGXyqAE/mr /dpKuzp11LinF4tTUniG69Rid; Received: from [172.56.10.88] (port=31556 helo=[IPV6:2607:fb90:1d22:7469:0:2a:6d2e:2501]) by box313.bluehost.com with esmtpsa (TLSv1.2:ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256:128) (Exim 4.87) (envelope-from ) id 1dUXvc-001FoT-0d; Mon, 10 Jul 2017 06:36:40 -0600 From: Lou Berger To: Ladislav Lhotka , Eliot Lear CC: NETMOD WG Date: Mon, 10 Jul 2017 08:36:36 -0400 Message-ID: <15d2c7eb640.27d3.9b4188e636579690ba6c69f2c8a0f1fd@labn.net> In-Reply-To: <83098619-ED60-40C1-B2DC-C207942C9C49@nic.cz> References: <33299B6B-DA56-45FD-AD91-2879BD877FA2@nic.cz> <83098619-ED60-40C1-B2DC-C207942C9C49@nic.cz> User-Agent: AquaMail/1.10.0-403 (build: 101000001) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-AntiAbuse: This header was added to track abuse, please include it with any abuse report X-AntiAbuse: Primary Hostname - box313.bluehost.com X-AntiAbuse: Original Domain - ietf.org X-AntiAbuse: Originator/Caller UID/GID - [47 12] / [47 12] X-AntiAbuse: Sender Address Domain - labn.net X-BWhitelist: no X-Source-IP: 172.56.10.88 X-Exim-ID: 1dUXvc-001FoT-0d X-Source: X-Source-Args: X-Source-Dir: X-Source-Sender: ([IPV6:2607:fb90:1d22:7469:0:2a:6d2e:2501]) [172.56.10.88]:31556 X-Source-Auth: lberger@labn.net X-Email-Count: 1 X-Source-Cap: bGFibm1vYmk7bGFibm1vYmk7Ym94MzEzLmJsdWVob3N0LmNvbQ== Archived-At: Subject: [netmod] Wg use of github (was Re: [netmod-wg/acl-model] TCP flags values not defined and only single flag allowed (#5)) X-BeenThere: netmod@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 Precedence: list List-Id: NETMOD WG list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 10 Jul 2017 13:03:47 -0000 Hi, >From the wg chair perspective: The working group has not decided how Github should be used, and at this point we defer to the authors / editors on their preferred method. But in all cases, issue resolution must be reviewed with the working group. Editors / authors have a lot of latitude on how they conduct this review and ensure that their document captures working group consensus. Lou On July 10, 2017 7:22:37 AM Ladislav Lhotka wrote: >> On 10 Jul 2017, at 10:53, Eliot Lear wrote: >> >> What would you prefer? That way they can be knocked down one by one, >> without the bunch getting intertwined. > > Sure, but the WG should deal with issues of published revisions of Internet > Drafts whereas GitHub issues should (in my view at least) be dealt with by > the authors and other interested folks who can easily subscribe at GitHub. > > If everybody does this, the traffic in the mailing list would grow > considerably. I know, one can filter it, but the list archives would get > cluttered, too. > > Lada > >> >> >> On 7/10/17 10:31 AM, Ladislav Lhotka wrote: >>> Hi, >>> >>> is it necessary to post these GitHub issues one by one to the WG mailing list? >>> >>> Thanks, Lada >>> >>>> On 8 Jul 2017, at 00:28, sonal1204 wrote: >>>> >>>> The TCP flags container is a leaf. This allows only 1 TCP value to be >>>> specified per ACE. >>>> >>>> leaf flags { >>>> type uint16; >>>> description >>>> "Also known as Control Bits. Contains 9 1-bit flags."; >>>> } >>>> >>>> Further, the TCP flags are not defined in the model. >>>> >>>> The improvements to this would be: >>>> >>>> • The data structure to store the TCP flags should be a leaf list. >>>> • The values could be defined to be something like: >>>> identity ETHERTYPE { >>>> description >>>> "Base identity for commonly used Ethertype values used >>>> in packet header matches on Ethernet frames. The Ethertype >>>> indicates which protocol is encapsulated in the Ethernet >>>> payload."; >>>> reference >>>> "IEEE 802.3"; >>>> } >>>> >>>> identity ETHERTYPE_IPV4 { >>>> base ETHERTYPE; >>>> description >>>> "IPv4 protocol (0x0800)"; >>>> } >>>> >>>> ... >>>> ... >>>> >>>> and so on. >>>> >>>> — >>>> You are receiving this because you are subscribed to this thread. >>>> Reply to this email directly, view it on GitHub, or mute the thread. >>>> >>> -- >>> Ladislav Lhotka >>> Head, CZ.NIC Labs >>> PGP Key ID: 0xB8F92B08A9F76C67 >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> netmod mailing list >>> netmod@ietf.org >>> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/netmod >> >> > > -- > Ladislav Lhotka > Head, CZ.NIC Labs > PGP Key ID: 0xB8F92B08A9F76C67 > > > > > > > > > ---------- > _______________________________________________ > netmod mailing list > netmod@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/netmod > From nobody Mon Jul 10 11:23:20 2017 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([2001:420:30d:1254:8485:c34a:7f8c:9cd1]) by smtp.gmail.com with ESMTPSA id p68sm8029852pfj.26.2017.07.10.15.27.29 (version=TLS1 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-AES128-SHA bits=128/128); Mon, 10 Jul 2017 15:27:29 -0700 (PDT) Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="Apple-Mail=_05785EB8-BE92-4D31-B3C1-50C128CEBF1C" Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 9.3 \(3124\)) From: Mahesh Jethanandani In-Reply-To: <83098619-ED60-40C1-B2DC-C207942C9C49@nic.cz> Date: Mon, 10 Jul 2017 15:27:28 -0700 Cc: Eliot Lear , NETMOD WG Message-Id: <12C40E23-6854-4009-959E-D3B10525470E@gmail.com> References: <33299B6B-DA56-45FD-AD91-2879BD877FA2@nic.cz> <83098619-ED60-40C1-B2DC-C207942C9C49@nic.cz> To: Ladislav Lhotka X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.3124) Archived-At: Subject: Re: [netmod] [netmod-wg/acl-model] TCP flags values not defined and only single flag allowed (#5) X-BeenThere: netmod@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 Precedence: list List-Id: NETMOD WG list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 10 Jul 2017 22:27:33 -0000 --Apple-Mail=_05785EB8-BE92-4D31-B3C1-50C128CEBF1C Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 > On Jul 10, 2017, at 4:21 AM, Ladislav Lhotka wrote: >=20 >>=20 >> On 10 Jul 2017, at 10:53, Eliot Lear > wrote: >>=20 >> What would you prefer? That way they can be knocked down one by one, >> without the bunch getting intertwined. >=20 > Sure, but the WG should deal with issues of published revisions of = Internet Drafts whereas GitHub issues should (in my view at least) be = dealt with by the authors and other interested folks who can easily = subscribe at GitHub. >=20 > If everybody does this, the traffic in the mailing list would grow = considerably. I know, one can filter it, but the list archives would get = cluttered, too. I think if the issue needs feedback/comment from the WG, we should post = it to the mailing list. Otherwise, if issue has a well known solution it = should be tracked in github only. >=20 > Lada >=20 >>=20 >>=20 >> On 7/10/17 10:31 AM, Ladislav Lhotka wrote: >>> Hi, >>>=20 >>> is it necessary to post these GitHub issues one by one to the WG = mailing list? >>>=20 >>> Thanks, Lada >>>=20 >>>> On 8 Jul 2017, at 00:28, sonal1204 = wrote: >>>>=20 >>>> The TCP flags container is a leaf. This allows only 1 TCP value to = be specified per ACE. >>>>=20 >>>> leaf flags { >>>> type uint16; >>>> description >>>> "Also known as Control Bits. Contains 9 1-bit flags."; >>>> } >>>>=20 >>>> Further, the TCP flags are not defined in the model. >>>>=20 >>>> The improvements to this would be: >>>>=20 >>>> =E2=80=A2 The data structure to store the TCP flags should be a = leaf list. >>>> =E2=80=A2 The values could be defined to be something like: >>>> identity ETHERTYPE { >>>> description >>>> "Base identity for commonly used Ethertype values used >>>> in packet header matches on Ethernet frames. The Ethertype >>>> indicates which protocol is encapsulated in the Ethernet >>>> payload."; >>>> reference >>>> "IEEE 802.3"; >>>> } >>>>=20 >>>> identity ETHERTYPE_IPV4 { >>>> base ETHERTYPE; >>>> description >>>> "IPv4 protocol (0x0800)"; >>>> } >>>>=20 >>>> ... >>>> ... >>>>=20 >>>> and so on. >>>>=20 >>>> =E2=80=94 >>>> You are receiving this because you are subscribed to this thread. >>>> Reply to this email directly, view it on GitHub, or mute the = thread. >>>>=20 >>> -- >>> Ladislav Lhotka >>> Head, CZ.NIC Labs >>> PGP Key ID: 0xB8F92B08A9F76C67 >>>=20 >>>=20 >>>=20 >>>=20 >>>=20 >>> _______________________________________________ >>> netmod mailing list >>> netmod@ietf.org >>> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/netmod >>=20 >>=20 >=20 > -- > Ladislav Lhotka > Head, CZ.NIC Labs > PGP Key ID: 0xB8F92B08A9F76C67 >=20 >=20 >=20 >=20 >=20 > _______________________________________________ > netmod mailing list > netmod@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/netmod = Mahesh Jethanandani mjethanandani@gmail.com --Apple-Mail=_05785EB8-BE92-4D31-B3C1-50C128CEBF1C Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/html; charset=utf-8
On Jul 10, 2017, at 4:21 AM, Ladislav Lhotka <lhotka@nic.cz> = wrote:


On 10 Jul 2017, at = 10:53, Eliot Lear <lear@cisco.com> wrote:

What= would you prefer?  That way they can be knocked down one by = one,
without the bunch getting intertwined.

Sure, but the WG should deal with issues of = published revisions of Internet Drafts whereas GitHub issues should (in = my view at least) be dealt with by the authors and other interested = folks who can easily subscribe at GitHub.

If everybody does this, the traffic in the = mailing list would grow considerably. I know, one can filter it, but the = list archives would get cluttered, too.

I think if = the issue needs feedback/comment from the WG, we should post it to the = mailing list. Otherwise, if issue has a well known solution it should be = tracked in github only.


Lada



On 7/10/17 10:31 AM, Ladislav Lhotka wrote:
Hi,

is it necessary to post these GitHub issues one by one to the = WG mailing list?

Thanks, Lada

On 8 Jul = 2017, at 00:28, sonal1204 <notifications@github.com> wrote:

The TCP flags container is a leaf. This allows only 1 TCP = value to be specified per ACE.

leaf flags = {
type uint16;
description
  "Also known as Control Bits. Contains 9 1-bit = flags.";
}

Further, the TCP = flags are not defined in the model.

The = improvements to this would be:

=E2=80=A2 = The data structure to store the TCP flags should be a leaf list.
= =E2=80=A2 The values could be defined to be something like:
identity ETHERTYPE {
description
"Base identity for commonly used Ethertype values used
in packet header matches on Ethernet frames. The Ethertype
indicates which protocol is encapsulated in the Ethernet
payload.";
reference
"IEEE = 802.3";
}

identity = ETHERTYPE_IPV4 {
base ETHERTYPE;
description
"IPv4 protocol (0x0800)";
}

...
...

and so on.

=E2=80=94=
You are receiving this because you are subscribed to this = thread.
Reply to this email directly, view it on GitHub, = or mute the thread.

--
Ladislav Lhotka
Head, CZ.NIC Labs
PGP Key ID: 0xB8F92B08A9F76C67




_______________________________________________
netmod mailing list
netmod@ietf.org
https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/netmod



--
Ladislav = Lhotka
Head, CZ.NIC Labs
PGP Key ID: 0xB8F92B08A9F76C67





_______________________________________________
netmod mailing = list
netmod@ietf.org
https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/netmod

Mahesh Jethanandani
mjethanandani@gmail.com



= --Apple-Mail=_05785EB8-BE92-4D31-B3C1-50C128CEBF1C-- From nobody Tue Jul 11 02:29:00 2017 Return-Path: X-Original-To: netmod@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: netmod@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4710A12F26C for ; Tue, 11 Jul 2017 02:28:58 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -14.503 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-14.503 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_HI=-5, RP_MATCHES_RCVD=-0.001, SPF_HELO_PASS=-0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, USER_IN_DEF_DKIM_WL=-7.5] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (1024-bit key) header.d=cisco.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 1GEyp86VV0RT for ; Tue, 11 Jul 2017 02:28:56 -0700 (PDT) Received: from aer-iport-1.cisco.com (aer-iport-1.cisco.com [173.38.203.51]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher DHE-RSA-SEED-SHA (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 7645A1272E1 for ; Tue, 11 Jul 2017 02:28:56 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/simple; d=cisco.com; i=@cisco.com; l=2712; q=dns/txt; s=iport; t=1499765336; x=1500974936; h=to:from:subject:message-id:date:mime-version: content-transfer-encoding; bh=54XToi7WcM9B2OJ997/XRsedciCE4P5ERXte1+Qn9x0=; b=Tl9mp289ITuzbBbP84GrTeRGeUsOyajAsq0xO7OEzOToymZDmxv8Y5NX iYEWV//WvZNSM69dnxucE9S/XF3M5ALcaUkqCzlBAGn9DUgZevTl1O8TU UXnNEniEs+aXcOw6NOCM3PgHa50IthC4DaO1zfGkJa5cIzw1hMN4yW2Yd w=; X-IronPort-Anti-Spam-Filtered: true X-IronPort-Anti-Spam-Result: =?us-ascii?q?A0CoAQD3mWRZ/xbLJq1dHAEBBAEBCgEBg?= =?us-ascii?q?y2QLnOQV5YlghGJbBgBAgEBAQEBAQFrKIVCFXYCJgJTDA0IAQGKK6wrgiaLOQE?= =?us-ascii?q?BCAImgQuCHYNNgWErC4prgkIfBYtwky+UDIsmhn+MaYhZHziBCjEhCBsVh2E+i?= =?us-ascii?q?GQBAQE?= X-IronPort-AV: E=Sophos;i="5.40,345,1496102400"; d="scan'208";a="695734964" Received: from aer-iport-nat.cisco.com (HELO aer-core-3.cisco.com) ([173.38.203.22]) by aer-iport-1.cisco.com with ESMTP/TLS/DHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384; 11 Jul 2017 09:28:49 +0000 Received: from [10.55.221.38] (ams-bclaise-nitro5.cisco.com [10.55.221.38]) by aer-core-3.cisco.com (8.14.5/8.14.5) with ESMTP id v6B9SnxM019391 for ; Tue, 11 Jul 2017 09:28:49 GMT To: NETMOD Working Group From: Benoit Claise Message-ID: <448bd299-d782-8657-e733-94404b8970d4@cisco.com> Date: Tue, 11 Jul 2017 11:28:46 +0200 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 6.1; WOW64; rv:52.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/52.2.1 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Language: en-US Archived-At: Subject: [netmod] netmod documents X-BeenThere: netmod@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 Precedence: list List-Id: NETMOD WG list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 11 Jul 2017 09:28:58 -0000 Dear all, In preparation for our meetings next week. Regards, Benoit $ wgstatus -s netmod Getting IETF document states Getting IETF docs for netmod Getting IETF RFCs for netmod Getting history for draft-ietf-netmod-syslog-model Getting history for draft-ietf-netmod-yang-tree-diagrams Getting history for draft-ietf-netmod-sub-intf-vlan-model Getting history for draft-ietf-netmod-schema-mount Getting history for draft-ietf-netmod-revised-datastores Getting history for draft-ietf-netmod-acl-model Getting history for draft-ietf-netmod-intf-ext-yang Getting history for draft-ietf-netmod-yang-model-classification Getting history for draft-ietf-netmod-rfc6087bis Getting history for draft-openconfig-netmod-model-catalog Getting history for draft-clemm-netmod-mount Getting history for draft-vallin-netmod-alarm-module # Document Status Since IETF-98 in Chicago (2017-03-26) ## Docs in IESG draft-ietf-netmod-rfc6087bis Active,WG Document,AD Evaluation draft-ietf-netmod-yang-model-classification Active,Version Changed - Review Needed,No IC,Submitted to IESG for Publication,EDIT,RFC Ed Queue ## New WG Docs draft-ietf-netmod-yang-tree-diagrams Active,WG Document ## Updated WG Docs draft-ietf-netmod-acl-model Active,WG Document draft-ietf-netmod-intf-ext-yang Active,WG Document draft-ietf-netmod-revised-datastores Active,WG Document draft-ietf-netmod-schema-mount Active,WG Document draft-ietf-netmod-sub-intf-vlan-model Active,WG Document draft-ietf-netmod-syslog-model Active,WG Document draft-ietf-netmod-yang-tree-diagrams Active,WG Document ## Existing WG Docs draft-ietf-netmod-entity Active,WG Document ## New Individual Docs draft-bierman-netmod-yang-data-ext Active draft-chin-netmod-iana-af-numbers Active draft-clacla-netmod-model-catalog Active draft-wang-netmod-cfm-yang Active draft-wilton-netmod-interface-properties Active ## Updated Individual Docs draft-clemm-netmod-mount Active draft-openconfig-netmod-model-catalog Active,Candidate for WG Adoption draft-vallin-netmod-alarm-module Active ## Existing Individual Docs draft-bertz-netmod-commonaugment Active draft-bjorklund-netmod-yang-tree-diagrams Active draft-faq-netmod-cpe-yang-profile Active draft-han-netmod-intf-ext-ppp-yang Active draft-hares-netmod-i2rs-yang Active draft-lengyel-netmod-schema-annotation Active draft-lhotka-netmod-yang-markup Active draft-liu-netmod-yang-schedule Active draft-rtgyangdt-netmod-module-tags Active draft-zhuang-netmod-yang-poe-management Active From nobody Tue Jul 11 03:25:47 2017 Return-Path: X-Original-To: netmod@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: netmod@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id B3753126BF3 for ; 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11 Jul 2017 10:25:37 +0000 Received: from [10.55.221.38] (ams-bclaise-nitro5.cisco.com [10.55.221.38]) by aer-core-3.cisco.com (8.14.5/8.14.5) with ESMTP id v6BAPaxP032224; Tue, 11 Jul 2017 10:25:36 GMT To: Mahesh Jethanandani , NetMod WG Cc: Glenn Parsons , Marc Holness References: From: Benoit Claise Message-ID: <82ab9cdf-5925-2330-b2f1-a7a299963bc0@cisco.com> Date: Tue, 11 Jul 2017 12:25:33 +0200 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 6.1; WOW64; rv:52.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/52.2.1 MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="------------79066FC82F9AC1E4743E6280" Content-Language: en-US Archived-At: Subject: Re: [netmod] draft-ietf-netmod-acl-model-11 issue #3 X-BeenThere: netmod@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 Precedence: list List-Id: NETMOD WG list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 11 Jul 2017 10:25:45 -0000 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --------------79066FC82F9AC1E4743E6280 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Hi, In order to look at what has been done already, the advice is to look at YANG search . I searched on "ether.type" with the regex flag. Don't pay attention to the last entry, this will be fixed. However, specifically pay attention to the second entry, the IEEE one. It points to https://www.yangcatalog.org/yang-search/show_node.php?module=ieee802-dot1q-types&path=%2Fdot1q-types%3Aether-type&revision=2016-09-22 Regards, Benoit > Created issue #3 in github > as "The model > defines 'ether-type' node as a string.” with the following description. > > The model defines 'ether-type' node as a string. Ideally, this should > be a well defined list of all Ethernet Types assigned by IEEE. This > requires collaborating with IEEE. > > One suggestion was to define ether-type as identities. That works for > when the identities themselves are distributed and need to be made > extensible. > > But Ethernet Types are doled out in IEEE by Registration Authority > Committee (RAC), so they could choose to centrally define it as an > enum and give each hex string a name that could be used by models. If > a user wants to configure a particular ether-type, the server must > import a version of the IEEE 8021q model that has that enumeration. > > Alternatively, as @mbj4668 has suggested, > it could also be a typedef like this: > > |typedef ether-type { type union { type > ieee-ether-type:ether-type-enum; type uint16; // or a hex-based number > } } | > Finally, the suggestion is to have ether-type defined as a number (or > hex based). This is flexible, but requires users/operators to read and > write numbers which are harder to remember than symbolic names. > > My personal preference would be for IEEE to define and publish the > YANG model with the definitions. > > Mahesh Jethanandani > mjethanandani@gmail.com > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > netmod mailing list > netmod@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/netmod --------------79066FC82F9AC1E4743E6280 Content-Type: multipart/related; boundary="------------E5B1F163751F99F7F0C47604" --------------E5B1F163751F99F7F0C47604 Content-Type: text/html; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 PGh0bWw+DQogIDxoZWFkPg0KICAgIDxtZXRhIGh0dHAtZXF1aXY9IkNvbnRlbnQtVHlwZSIg Y29udGVudD0idGV4dC9odG1sOyBjaGFyc2V0PXV0Zi04Ij4NCiAgPC9oZWFkPg0KICA8Ym9k eSB0ZXh0PSIjMDAwMDAwIiBiZ2NvbG9yPSIjRkZGRkZGIj4NCiAgICA8ZGl2IGNsYXNzPSJt b3otY2l0ZS1wcmVmaXgiPkhpLDxicj4NCiAgICAgIDxicj4NCiAgICAgIEluIG9yZGVyIHRv 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13:55:58 GMT From: Benoit Claise To: NETMOD Working Group Message-ID: Date: Tue, 11 Jul 2017 15:55:58 +0200 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 6.1; WOW64; rv:52.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/52.2.1 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="------------6F3385FFA5AA431766D8A219" Content-Language: en-US Archived-At: Subject: [netmod] draft-ietf-netmod-revised-datastores-03 feedback X-BeenThere: netmod@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 Precedence: list List-Id: NETMOD WG list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 11 Jul 2017 13:56:05 -0000 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --------------6F3385FFA5AA431766D8A219 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Dear all, Good job on this document. Some comments below. - OLD: o learned configuration: Configuration that has been learned via protocol interactions with other systems that is not conventional or dynamic configuration. NEW (is this what wou want to say?): o learned configuration: Configuration that has been learned via dynamic configuration or protocol interactions with other systems that is not conventional Thinking some more about this definition. Let's come back to it. - o dynamic datastore: A datastore holding data obtained dynamically during the operation of a device through interaction with other systems, rather than through one of the conventional configuration datastores. Should the dynamic datastore should say: o dynamic datastore: A datastore holding configuration data obtained dynamically ... Background: Reading this definition: o system state: The additional data on a system that is not configuration, such as read-only status information and collected statistics. System state is transient and modified by interactions with internal components or other systems. System state is modeled in YANG using "config false" nodes. I guessed that the system states don't include the content from the dynamic datastore. It's not obvious with the current definitions. - This figure and section 4.7 text. +-------------+ +-----------+ | | | | | (ct, rw) |<---+ +--->| (ct, rw) | +-------------+ | | +-----------+ | | | | | +-----------+ | +-------->| |<--------+ | (ct, rw) | +-----------+ | | // configuration transformations, | // e.g., removal of "inactive" | // nodes, expansion of templates v +------------+ | | // subject to validation | (ct, ro) | +------------+ | // changes applied, subject to | // local factors, e.g., missing | // resources, delays | | +-------- learned configuration dynamic | +-------- system configuration datastores -----+ | +-------- default configuration | | | v v v +---------------+ | | <-- system state | (ct + cf, ro) | +---------------+ Section 4.7 contains system state and all configuration actually used by the system. This includes all applied configuration from , system-provided configuration, and default values defined by any supported data models. In addition, also contains applied data from dynamic datastores. What about "learned configuration" - Section 3. The important question is whether the section 2 "datastore" and "configuration datastore" definitions are aligned with previous definitions or not. I guess not. If this is the case, it should be clearly mentioned. - Section 4.5 No need to repeat what's in the terminology section. - Section 4.7 OLD: In the original NETCONF model the operational state only had "config false" nodes. OLD: In the original NETCONF model (RFC6241 or section 3.1) the operational state only had "config false" nodes. - Security Considerations. You might want to stress that, even if this document contains YANG modules, those modules have no read or read/write leaves: only identities and a metadata. Hence "YANG module security guidelines" don't apply. Now, there surely exist some security considerations anyway. - Is appendix A normative? Should it move to the document core? Regards, Benoit --------------6F3385FFA5AA431766D8A219 Content-Type: text/html; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Dear all,

Good job on this document.

Some comments below.

-

OLD:
   o  learned configuration: Configuration that has been learned via
      protocol interactions with other systems that is not conventional
      or dynamic configuration.

NEW (is this what wou want to say?):
   o  learned configuration: Configuration that has been learned via dynamic configuration
      or protocol interactions with other systems that is not conventional

Thinking some more about this definition. Let's come back to it.

-
 
   o  dynamic datastore: A datastore holding data obtained dynamically
      during the operation of a device through interaction with other
      systems, rather than through one of the conventional configuration
      datastores.


Should the dynamic datastore should say:
   o  dynamic datastore: A datastore holding configuration data obtained dynamically ...


Background:
Reading this definition:
  o  system state: The additional data on a system that is not
      configuration, such as read-only status information and collected
      statistics.  System state is transient and modified by
      interactions with internal components or other systems.  System
      state is modeled in YANG using "config false" nodes.

I guessed that the system states don't include the content from the dynamic datastore.
It's not obvious with the current definitions.

- This figure and section 4.7 text.

     +-------------+                 +-----------+
     | <candidate> |                 | <startup> |
     |  (ct, rw)   |<---+       +--->| (ct, rw)  |
     +-------------+    |       |    +-----------+
            |           |       |           |
            |         +-----------+         |
            +-------->| <running> |<--------+
                      | (ct, rw)  |
                      +-----------+
                            |
                            |        // configuration transformations,
                            |        // e.g., removal of "inactive"
                            |        // nodes, expansion of templates
                            v
                      +------------+
                      | <intended> | // subject to validation
                      | (ct, ro)   |
                      +------------+
                            |        // changes applied, subject to
                            |        // local factors, e.g., missing
                            |        // resources, delays
                            |
                            |   +-------- learned configuration
       dynamic              |   +-------- system configuration
       datastores -----+    |   +-------- default configuration
                       |    |   |
                       v    v   v
                    +---------------+
                    | <operational> | <-- system state
                    | (ct + cf, ro) |
                    +---------------+


  Section 4.7
   <operational> contains system state and all configuration actually
   used by the system.  This includes all applied configuration from
   <intended>, system-provided configuration, and default values defined
   by any supported data models.  In addition, <operational> also
   contains applied data from dynamic datastores.
What about "learned configuration"

- Section 3.
The important question is whether the section 2 "datastore" and "configuration datastore" definitions are aligned with previous definitions or not.
I guess not. If this is the case, it should be clearly mentioned.

- Section 4.5
No need to repeat what's in the terminology section.

- Section 4.7

OLD:
   In the original NETCONF model the operational
   state only had "config false" nodes.
OLD:
   In the original NETCONF model (RFC6241 or section 3.1) the operational
   state only had "config false" nodes.

- Security Considerations.
You might want to stress that, even if this document contains YANG modules, those modules have no read or read/write leaves: only identities and a metadata. Hence "YANG module security guidelines" don't apply.
Now, there surely exist some security considerations anyway.

- Is appendix A normative?
Should it move to the document core?

Regards, Benoit













--------------6F3385FFA5AA431766D8A219-- From nobody Tue Jul 11 08:55:33 2017 Return-Path: X-Original-To: netmod@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: netmod@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 04439131752 for ; Tue, 11 Jul 2017 08:55:32 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.998 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.998 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=gmail.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id abhMP8eIJUMZ for ; Tue, 11 Jul 2017 08:55:28 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail-pg0-x22a.google.com (mail-pg0-x22a.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:400e:c05::22a]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 04440129B64 for ; Tue, 11 Jul 2017 08:55:27 -0700 (PDT) Received: by mail-pg0-x22a.google.com with SMTP id t186so1795049pgb.1 for ; Tue, 11 Jul 2017 08:55:27 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20161025; h=mime-version:subject:from:in-reply-to:date:cc:message-id:references :to; bh=nYG6/ZgLCwfjPQFb/yqntfuNLuYV/xFgNr0v3o38lFo=; b=KAEst9gN0BcUvdJ3ucY5bTTv3DgHi6yFt874UYemC/RkNzBPLCHC4w2VWISMPI8MXy fiBtdi+auWBgAxlsUHhM8wQiXS5ej9irGLjst4hX2oBPn82EutDknrpuvntkER5Erxu2 1owIBUT5fzQO7pB0nQmwtX6BrU+yX5hIcOo4H6G63xzjNf/U+LVPuSHEQPKsXHkxyCVw RgiG8EfS1OQVaVkkQHcfpYDPh6BUPiWM8jyLTQmg9tP0hoWtCPphUT8ES7CbA7APMTQY kUNBnRI0au25drehysTSUO7m4BrjEJ7Auek43fsOvSvwUTMpaKm+IcB20aBzKciB4UEs h3OQ== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:subject:from:in-reply-to:date:cc :message-id:references:to; bh=nYG6/ZgLCwfjPQFb/yqntfuNLuYV/xFgNr0v3o38lFo=; b=o9SIPMVUeb01vQZcbNgVp7gxPg502qJ7qu0jCxSJ8eO80dDqAhc1JUMgD9dI2Dssz2 PAtUCTHR6PAiwWI1zEXmcrxaDrYU7ESsXk+FHkTpQ5FKfL3loJZ1Tzw7Xmwj5CWLe1oz QkcfRVEPy1lh7jR+RQeZaLMdPpp1lbur1n5OKN+MIdlqOmc1Ip06QIagipb2bovwqdDV 1eJnxh9ni8o2Pcc3pioyYXUm+J0I+aXAuMSnQmrogENx2qp4gwnSkeCN0kyK/DvEY3p+ Gj7ZohTYKVKsKd7Tm+fMarLnbHWmoeTXA5vNh6p2Vj/Cuan3q1UvfdnO2ZvymJYFlFgn Zw0w== X-Gm-Message-State: AIVw111QCrzs3pl1JvrCOwsMOTsN0tfN1ZvgGz6CVIa2LLJVQvcOezXv ZluqMKsN99UAdQ== X-Received: by 10.98.97.66 with SMTP id v63mr30482252pfb.230.1499788527489; Tue, 11 Jul 2017 08:55:27 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mahesh-m-m8d1.attlocal.net (108-247-125-249.lightspeed.sntcca.sbcglobal.net. [108.247.125.249]) by smtp.gmail.com with ESMTPSA id y192sm442824pgd.38.2017.07.11.08.55.26 (version=TLS1 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-AES128-SHA bits=128/128); Tue, 11 Jul 2017 08:55:26 -0700 (PDT) Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="Apple-Mail=_D3D22C5C-2318-48A8-A27A-882C3F5DC358" Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 9.3 \(3124\)) From: Mahesh Jethanandani In-Reply-To: <82ab9cdf-5925-2330-b2f1-a7a299963bc0@cisco.com> Date: Tue, 11 Jul 2017 08:55:25 -0700 Cc: NetMod WG , Glenn Parsons , Marc Holness Message-Id: <34DB7309-7B80-4219-82F0-2BF2A1F26C67@gmail.com> References: <82ab9cdf-5925-2330-b2f1-a7a299963bc0@cisco.com> To: Benoit Claise X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.3124) Archived-At: Subject: Re: [netmod] draft-ietf-netmod-acl-model-11 issue #3 X-BeenThere: netmod@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 Precedence: list List-Id: NETMOD WG list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 11 Jul 2017 15:55:32 -0000 --Apple-Mail=_D3D22C5C-2318-48A8-A27A-882C3F5DC358 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Benoit, Precisely. I did start in yangcatalog.com with the search for ether-type = and found that it was defined as a string. It was helpful to get rid of = the duplicate definition we had in the ACL draft. But that raised the = question of whether it should be defined as a string, when ether-types = are well known types. Is there a IETF-IEEE co-ordination meeting planned in Prague? > On Jul 11, 2017, at 3:25 AM, Benoit Claise wrote: >=20 > Hi, >=20 > In order to look at what has been done already, the advice is to look = at YANG search = . > I searched on "ether.type" with the regex flag. > Don't pay attention to the last entry, this = will be fixed. >=20 > However, specifically pay attention to the second entry, the IEEE one. > It points to = https://www.yangcatalog.org/yang-search/show_node.php?module=3Dieee802-dot= 1q-types&path=3D%2Fdot1q-types%3Aether-type&revision=3D2016-09-22 = >=20 > Regards, Benoit >> Created issue #3 in github = as "The model defines = 'ether-type' node as a string.=E2=80=9D with the following description. >>=20 >> The model defines 'ether-type' node as a string. Ideally, this should = be a well defined list of all Ethernet Types assigned by IEEE. This = requires collaborating with IEEE. >>=20 >> One suggestion was to define ether-type as identities. That works for = when the identities themselves are distributed and need to be made = extensible. >>=20 >> But Ethernet Types are doled out in IEEE by Registration Authority = Committee (RAC), so they could choose to centrally define it as an enum = and give each hex string a name that could be used by models. If a user = wants to configure a particular ether-type, the server must import a = version of the IEEE 8021q model that has that enumeration. >>=20 >> Alternatively, as @mbj4668 has = suggested, it could also be a typedef like this: >>=20 >> typedef ether-type { >> type union { >> type ieee-ether-type:ether-type-enum; >> type uint16; // or a hex-based number >> } >> } >> Finally, the suggestion is to have ether-type defined as a number (or = hex based). This is flexible, but requires users/operators to read and = write numbers which are harder to remember than symbolic names. >>=20 >> My personal preference would be for IEEE to define and publish the = YANG model with the definitions. >>=20 >> Mahesh Jethanandani >> mjethanandani@gmail.com >>=20 >>=20 >>=20 >>=20 >>=20 >> _______________________________________________ >> netmod mailing list >> netmod@ietf.org >> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/netmod = >=20 Mahesh Jethanandani mjethanandani@gmail.com --Apple-Mail=_D3D22C5C-2318-48A8-A27A-882C3F5DC358 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/html; charset=utf-8 Benoit,

Precisely. I did start in yangcatalog.com with the search for ether-type and found = that it was defined as a string. It was helpful to get rid of the = duplicate definition we had in the ACL draft. But that raised the = question of whether it should be defined as a string, when ether-types = are well known types.

Is there a IETF-IEEE co-ordination meeting planned in = Prague?

On Jul 11, 2017, at 3:25 AM, Benoit Claise = <bclaise@cisco.com> wrote:

=20 =20
Hi,

In order to look at what has been done already, the advice is to look at YANG search.
I searched on "ether.type" with the regex flag.
<gidfollnniceccif.png><= /span> Don't pay attention to the last entry, this will be fixed.

However, specifically pay attention to the second entry, the IEEE one.
It points to https://www.yangcatalog.org/yang-search/show_node.php?module=3Die= ee802-dot1q-types&path=3D%2Fdot1q-types%3Aether-type&revision=3D20= 16-09-22

Regards, Benoit
Created issue #3 = in github as "The model defines 'ether-type' node as a string.=E2=80=9D with = the following description.

The model defines 'ether-type' node as a string. Ideally, this should be a well defined list of all Ethernet Types assigned by IEEE. This requires collaborating with IEEE.

One = suggestion was to define ether-type as identities. That works for when the identities themselves are distributed and need to be made extensible.

But Ethernet Types are doled out in IEEE by Registration Authority Committee (RAC), so they could choose to centrally define it as an enum and give each hex string a name that could be used by models. If a user wants to configure a particular ether-type, the server must import a version of the IEEE 8021q model that has that enumeration.

Alternatively,= as @mbj4668 has suggested, it could also be a typedef like this:

    typedef ether-type {
      type union {
        type ieee-ether-type:ether-type-enum;
        type uint16; // or a hex-based number
      }
    }
Finally, the suggestion is to have ether-type defined as a number (or hex based). This is flexible, but requires users/operators to read and write numbers which are harder to remember than symbolic names.

My personal preference would be for IEEE to define and publish the YANG model with the definitions.

Mahesh Jethanandani
mjethanandani@gmail.com





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Mahesh Jethanandani
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[128.107.147.95]) by smtp.gmail.com with ESMTPSA id x74sm243794oia.23.2017.07.11.12.21.27 (version=TLS1 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-AES128-SHA bits=128/128); Tue, 11 Jul 2017 12:21:28 -0700 (PDT) Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="Apple-Mail=_DD5E64D1-4AC5-4006-81E5-B97A951D7BE3" Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 9.3 \(3124\)) From: Mahesh Jethanandani In-Reply-To: Date: Tue, 11 Jul 2017 12:21:27 -0700 Cc: Benoit Claise , Marc Holness , Glenn Parsons , NetMod WG , "draft-ietf-netmod-acl-model@ietf.org" Message-Id: <1525C455-51BD-440D-BCA1-60A4F182B931@gmail.com> References: <82ab9cdf-5925-2330-b2f1-a7a299963bc0@cisco.com> <34DB7309-7B80-4219-82F0-2BF2A1F26C67@gmail.com> To: "Acee Lindem (acee)" X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.3124) Archived-At: Subject: Re: [netmod] draft-ietf-netmod-acl-model-11 issue #3 X-BeenThere: netmod@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 Precedence: list List-Id: NETMOD WG list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 11 Jul 2017 19:21:35 -0000 --Apple-Mail=_DD5E64D1-4AC5-4006-81E5-B97A951D7BE3 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Acee, There are couple of arguments in favor of why ether-type should be an = well define enum, even if we choose to document the public ones. - operators know and associate names better than numbers for different = ether-types. - if ether-type was a distributed registry and had to made extensible, = it would make sense to define them as identities. ether-types are = centrally defined and maintained by IEEE RAC. Alternatively, as suggested by Martin, the definition could be thus: typedef ether-type { type union { type ieee-ether-type:ether-type-enum; type uint16; // or a hex-based number } } where we allow for read/write of the hex-based number while IEEE works = up the definition of the enums. > On Jul 11, 2017, at 10:32 AM, Acee Lindem (acee) = wrote: >=20 > Hi Mahesh, Benoit, Draft Authors,=20 >=20 > In terms of a layer-2 ACL, I=E2=80=99d want to be able to match = ether-type against any 2-octet number. Hence, I think a string is a very = poor choice here.=20 >=20 > In support of the above statement, one only needs to look at the = existing IEEE registry for ether type.=20 >=20 > = https://regauth.standards.ieee.org/standards-ra-web/pub/view.html#registri= es = >=20 > There are about 3700+ registered ether-types and most of them are = private. This is hardly something that we=E2=80=99d want to represent as = a YANG enum or even a set of identities.=20 >=20 > However, if we are talking about future YANG enhancements, it would be = nice to have an identity that could reference a YANG type as a base = rather than another identify. That way the base type could be uint16 or = some other 2-octet type and well-known ether-types could be represented = by YANG identities referencing the base identity of type unit16. =20 >=20 > Thanks, > Acee=20 >=20 > From: netmod > on behalf of Mahesh Jethanandani = > > Date: Tuesday, July 11, 2017 at 11:55 AM > To: "Benoit Claise (bclaise)" > > Cc: Marc Holness >, = Glenn Parsons >, NetMod WG > > Subject: Re: [netmod] draft-ietf-netmod-acl-model-11 issue #3 >=20 > Benoit, >=20 > Precisely. I did start in yangcatalog.com = with the search for ether-type and found that it was defined as a = string. It was helpful to get rid of the duplicate definition we had in = the ACL draft. But that raised the question of whether it should be = defined as a string, when ether-types are well known types. >=20 > Is there a IETF-IEEE co-ordination meeting planned in Prague? >=20 >> On Jul 11, 2017, at 3:25 AM, Benoit Claise > wrote: >>=20 >> Hi, >>=20 >> In order to look at what has been done already, the advice is to look = at YANG search = . >> I searched on "ether.type" with the regex flag. >> Don't pay attention to the last entry, this = will be fixed. >>=20 >> However, specifically pay attention to the second entry, the IEEE = one. >> It points to = https://www.yangcatalog.org/yang-search/show_node.php?module=3Dieee802-dot= 1q-types&path=3D%2Fdot1q-types%3Aether-type&revision=3D2016-09-22 = >>=20 >> Regards, Benoit >>> Created issue #3 in github = as "The model defines = 'ether-type' node as a string.=E2=80=9D with the following description. >>>=20 >>> The model defines 'ether-type' node as a string. Ideally, this = should be a well defined list of all Ethernet Types assigned by IEEE. = This requires collaborating with IEEE. >>>=20 >>> One suggestion was to define ether-type as identities. That works = for when the identities themselves are distributed and need to be made = extensible. >>>=20 >>> But Ethernet Types are doled out in IEEE by Registration Authority = Committee (RAC), so they could choose to centrally define it as an enum = and give each hex string a name that could be used by models. If a user = wants to configure a particular ether-type, the server must import a = version of the IEEE 8021q model that has that enumeration. >>>=20 >>> Alternatively, as @mbj4668 has = suggested, it could also be a typedef like this: >>>=20 >>> typedef ether-type { >>> type union { >>> type ieee-ether-type:ether-type-enum; >>> type uint16; // or a hex-based number >>> } >>> } >>> Finally, the suggestion is to have ether-type defined as a number = (or hex based). This is flexible, but requires users/operators to read = and write numbers which are harder to remember than symbolic names. >>>=20 >>> My personal preference would be for IEEE to define and publish the = YANG model with the definitions. >>>=20 >>> Mahesh Jethanandani >>> mjethanandani@gmail.com >>>=20 >>>=20 >>>=20 >>>=20 >>>=20 >>> _______________________________________________ >>> netmod mailing list >>> netmod@ietf.org = https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/netmod = >=20 > Mahesh Jethanandani > mjethanandani@gmail.com Mahesh Jethanandani mjethanandani@gmail.com --Apple-Mail=_DD5E64D1-4AC5-4006-81E5-B97A951D7BE3 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/html; charset=utf-8 Acee,

There= are couple of arguments in favor of why ether-type should be an well = define enum, even if we choose to document the public ones.

- operators know and = associate names better than numbers for different ether-types.
- if ether-type was a distributed registry and had to made = extensible, it would make sense to define them as identities. = ether-types are centrally defined and maintained by IEEE RAC.

Alternatively, as = suggested by Martin, the definition could be thus:

    typedef ether-type {
      type union {
        type ieee-ether-type:ether-type-enum;
        type uint16; // or a hex-based number
      }
    }
where we allow for read/write of the = hex-based number while IEEE works up the definition of the = enums.

On Jul 11, 2017, at 10:32 AM, = Acee Lindem (acee) <acee@cisco.com> wrote:

Hi Mahesh, Benoit, Draft Authors, 

In terms of a layer-2 ACL, I=E2=80=99d want to be able = to match ether-type against any 2-octet number. Hence, I think a string = is a very poor choice here. 

In support of the above statement, one only needs to = look at the existing IEEE registry for ether type. 

https://regauth.standards.ieee.org/standards-ra-web/pub/view.ht= ml#registries

There are about 3700+ registered ether-types and most of = them are private. This is hardly something that we=E2=80=99d want to = represent as a YANG enum or even a set of identities. 

However, if we are talking about future YANG = enhancements, it would be nice to have an identity that could reference = a YANG type as a base rather than another identify. That way the base = type could be uint16 or some other 2-octet type and well-known = ether-types could be represented by YANG identities referencing the base identity = of type unit16.  

Thanks,
Acee 

From: netmod <netmod-bounces@ietf.org> on behalf of Mahesh = Jethanandani <mjethanandani@gmail.com>
Date: Tuesday, July = 11, 2017 at 11:55 AM
To: "Benoit Claise = (bclaise)" <bclaise@cisco.com>
Cc: Marc Holness = <mholness@CIENA.COM>, Glenn Parsons <glenn.parsons@ericsson.com>, NetMod WG <netmod@ietf.org>
Subject: Re: [netmod] = draft-ietf-netmod-acl-model-11 issue #3

Benoit,

Precisely. I did start in yangcatalog.com with the search for ether-type and found that it was = defined as a string. It was helpful to get rid of the duplicate = definition we had in the ACL draft. But that raised the question of = whether it should be defined as a string, when ether-types are well known types.

Is there a IETF-IEEE co-ordination meeting planned in = Prague?

On Jul 11, 2017, at 3:25 AM, Benoit Claise <bclaise@cisco.com> = wrote:

Hi,

In order to look at what has been done already, the advice is to look at = YANG search.
I searched on "ether.type" with the regex flag.
<gidfollnniceccif.png> Don't pay attention to = the last entry, this will be fixed.

However, specifically pay attention to the second entry, the IEEE = one.
It points to = https://www.yangcatalog.org/yang-search/show_node.php?module=3Dieee802-dot= 1q-types&path=3D%2Fdot1q-types%3Aether-type&revision=3D2016-09-22<= /a>

Regards, Benoit
Created issue #3 = in github as "The model defines 'ether-type' node as a string.=E2=80=9D with the following description.

The model defines 'ether-type' node as a string. Ideally, this should be = a well defined list of all Ethernet Types assigned by IEEE. This = requires collaborating with IEEE.

One suggestion was to define ether-type as identities. That works for = when the identities themselves are distributed and need to be made = extensible.

But Ethernet Types are doled out in IEEE by Registration Authority = Committee (RAC), so they could choose to centrally define it as an enum = and give each hex string a name that could be used by models. If a user = wants to configure a particular ether-type, the server must import a version of the IEEE 8021q model that has that = enumeration.

Alternatively, as @mbj4668 has suggested, it could also be a typedef like this:

    typedef =
ether-type {
      type union {
        type ieee-ether-type:ether-type-enum;
        type uint16; // or a hex-based number
      }
    }
Finally, the suggestion is to have ether-type defined as a number (or = hex based). This is flexible, but requires users/operators to read and = write numbers which are harder to remember than symbolic names.

My personal preference would be for IEEE to define and = publish the YANG model with the definitions.

Mahesh Jethanandani
mjethanandani@gmail.com





_______________________________________________
netmod mailing list
netmod@ietf.orghttps://www.ietf.org=
/mailman/listinfo/netmod


Mahesh Jethanandani
mjethanandani@gmail.com

Mahesh Jethanandani
mjethanandani@gmail.com



= --Apple-Mail=_DD5E64D1-4AC5-4006-81E5-B97A951D7BE3-- From nobody Tue Jul 11 12:27:03 2017 Return-Path: X-Original-To: netmod@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: netmod@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id B77541317AC for ; Tue, 11 Jul 2017 12:27:01 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.698 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.698 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW=-0.7, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=gmail.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id f5oNtQ45bV-Y for ; Tue, 11 Jul 2017 12:26:59 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail-oi0-x230.google.com (mail-oi0-x230.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:4003:c06::230]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id CA7851267BB for ; Tue, 11 Jul 2017 12:26:59 -0700 (PDT) Received: by mail-oi0-x230.google.com with SMTP id x187so1615127oig.3 for ; Tue, 11 Jul 2017 12:26:59 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20161025; h=mime-version:subject:from:in-reply-to:date:cc:message-id:references :to; bh=YyWM/9YleSQT3fcRRf2ac6x+gbp9jijONyeXzFSxnvc=; b=hkmfAo8qBhM+Az1QFoKZLl4D+ch2TJHmW6SmO+hR5dndtVSqmScmcsCMQK8TRTlzot szKpk3uyUJSvWL3VIUM0OfpEz/+g4ahN7JCzSFX8zMaQdPseXFyjfif6CWOl+I9YjV7j s8meUY+z0jV84WBeVitY/cmraPq72JlCpt5cz33SxKmE8It5B1vRaMJxw2B8TRJ3/G+V kXLy8IQg+EhIBjj+Uq+vGB+1aoDXEZBXGvbfWVyqaN6I49pA83Xhc/bH77nvZO+CGdeA V7JAfPExEHnSImiyVoZ5Y6wJBcADqKjIopChsrIBeiyrUBaYR2fNuduxr2k+5NVm7rxQ FLcQ== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:subject:from:in-reply-to:date:cc :message-id:references:to; bh=YyWM/9YleSQT3fcRRf2ac6x+gbp9jijONyeXzFSxnvc=; b=ZYle2o7KF4YdiAODw2qeNyCR/EuixbpzQfZLyYQtyDBoQyyVrHmj7+r5t8q/Cii4sY vdS/KcyQyXPht5M5kd0Q0Tqx1DxgA4GRjXrG9OZFGOccOTCqt8mFuXdrvtSVBQoBpwT2 vWWZE8+UMOhiMJbQRMILYza2fQ9JpAuPNO7sx9IqyFO4EDH0yTAAxwNUEnWBWq6Q9Ori 9HEUSTo08BY5IF+aZSABJDwgh2niY1JoXRmSyBOK8qnlMlm6llkUabhFDEacuTtQXdpJ 0EceXrP3NC/7Xkt5oFEmRvBj1P4wx+YBf3SxXTAyVpJOJlTSQie7gtT8atZ/sMome94c n4kg== X-Gm-Message-State: AIVw110QUmqXF9cUEPg71httPyyUkhg/5J3zN/zEJ1iCgNw7yqCCb+dK 2DAff6c3iijeqQ== X-Received: by 10.202.102.164 with SMTP id m36mr1067539oik.97.1499801219247; Tue, 11 Jul 2017 12:26:59 -0700 (PDT) Received: from dhcp-128-107-147-95.cisco.com (dhcp-128-107-147-95.cisco.com. [128.107.147.95]) by smtp.gmail.com with ESMTPSA id o15sm286014oik.5.2017.07.11.12.26.58 (version=TLS1 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-AES128-SHA bits=128/128); Tue, 11 Jul 2017 12:26:58 -0700 (PDT) Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="Apple-Mail=_FCD51EB5-C91E-4A32-88E7-1215AA28C710" Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 9.3 \(3124\)) From: Mahesh Jethanandani In-Reply-To: Date: Tue, 11 Jul 2017 12:26:58 -0700 Cc: NetMod WG Message-Id: References: <4BB59D41-8DC2-4900-A461-95E359FA321D@gmail.com> To: "Acee Lindem (acee)" X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.3124) Archived-At: Subject: Re: [netmod] draft-ietf-netmod-acl-model-11 issue #4 X-BeenThere: netmod@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 Precedence: list List-Id: NETMOD WG list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 11 Jul 2017 19:27:02 -0000 --Apple-Mail=_FCD51EB5-C91E-4A32-88E7-1215AA28C710 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Unless someone disagrees, with a good reason, I am going to go ahead and = close this issue. > On Jul 7, 2017, at 2:19 PM, Acee Lindem (acee) wrote: >=20 > My opinion is absolutely not. Past attempts to mix forwarding and = routing policy have been, at best, very confusing. This issue should be = removed from section 8 and closed.=20 >=20 > Thanks, > Acee=20 >=20 > From: netmod > on behalf of Mahesh Jethanandani = > > Date: Friday, July 7, 2017 at 5:03 PM > To: NetMod WG > > Subject: [netmod] draft-ietf-netmod-acl-model-11 issue #4 >=20 > Created issue #4 in github = as "Should this model = include route-policy definition as defined in = draft-ietf-rtgwg-policy-model?=E2=80=9D >=20 > with the following description: >=20 > The title says it all. The only note is that the draft in question has = expired, so it is not clear what the status of those definitions are. >=20 >=20 > Mahesh Jethanandani > mjethanandani@gmail.com >=20 >=20 >=20 Mahesh Jethanandani mjethanandani@gmail.com --Apple-Mail=_FCD51EB5-C91E-4A32-88E7-1215AA28C710 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/html; charset=utf-8 Unless someone disagrees, with a good reason, I am going to = go ahead and close this issue.

On = Jul 7, 2017, at 2:19 PM, Acee Lindem (acee) <acee@cisco.com> = wrote:

My opinion is absolutely not. Past attempts to mix = forwarding and routing policy have been, at best, very confusing. This = issue should be removed from section 8 and closed. 

Thanks,
Acee 

From: netmod <netmod-bounces@ietf.org> on behalf of Mahesh = Jethanandani <mjethanandani@gmail.com>
Date: Friday, July 7, = 2017 at 5:03 PM
To: NetMod WG <netmod@ietf.org>
Subject: [netmod] = draft-ietf-netmod-acl-model-11 issue #4

Created issue #4 = in github as "Should this model = include route-policy definition as defined in = draft-ietf-rtgwg-policy-model?=E2=80=9D

with the following description:

The title says it all. The only note is that the draft in question has = expired, so it is not clear what the status of those definitions = are.


Mahesh Jethanandani
mjethanandani@gmail.com

Mahesh Jethanandani
mjethanandani@gmail.com



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10.28.152.141 with SMTP id a135mr132214wme.39.1499805870355; Tue, 11 Jul 2017 13:44:30 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.223.152.196 with HTTP; Tue, 11 Jul 2017 13:44:29 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: References: <201706200605.v5K65g8E000929@idle.juniper.net> <42BAB734-C9B5-412A-8E53-E074F198654A@juniper.net> From: Andy Bierman Date: Tue, 11 Jul 2017 13:44:29 -0700 Message-ID: To: Kent Watsen Cc: "netmod@ietf.org" Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="001a114b2fbc22a6a7055410c429" Archived-At: Subject: Re: [netmod] I-D Action: draft-ietf-netmod-rfc6087bis-13.txt X-BeenThere: netmod@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 Precedence: list List-Id: NETMOD WG list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 11 Jul 2017 20:44:34 -0000 --001a114b2fbc22a6a7055410c429 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Hi, Do you have text from your that that should be pasted into section 6.23? I think there were other issues, such as changing the terminology to reference RD. There were comments opposing that idea because the definition for 'configuration' including everything that could possibly change the behavior of the device. Andy On Tue, Jul 11, 2017 at 1:31 PM, Kent Watsen wrote: > Hi Andy, > > > > I confirmed with Lou and Benoit that we want 6.23 to have the normative > text within it, > > as we're both unsure about if the nmda-guidelines draft will progress and > also believe > > that the text could be written more helpfully for the 6087bis audience. > > > > Would it help if one of the nmda-guidelines authors wrote the section for > you? > > > > Thanks, > > Kent // co-chair > > > > > > On 6/20/17, 11:27 AM, "Andy Bierman" wrote: > > > > Hi, > > > > I rewrote 6.23 and it points at the NMDA guidelines. > > The drafts will get published together so the references will > > be to RFCs, not I-Ds. That is usually what is meant by the comment below > I think > > > > > > > I don't expect the guidelines doc is going to progress independently. > > Agreed. > > > > Andy > > > > On Tue, Jun 20, 2017 at 8:20 AM, Kent Watsen wrote: > > > > > > Regarding the suggestion to add this text: > > > Guidelines for > > moving existing data modules to the NMDA are defined in > > [I-D.dsdt-nmda-guidelines]. > > I'm hoping that we do not progress the guidelines doc. Ideally 6087bis > can just state what people should do, without providing a formula for > transitioning. > > > > I thought 6087bis is supposed to point people to the NMDA guidelines. > That is why 6087bis has been held back for so long, even though it was > > supposed to be published with YANG 1.1. > > > > We waste a lot of time refactoring drafts and re-reviewing them. > > IMO the RD guidelines should be in the RD draft. > > > > > > I thought that this was settled before (maybe not): > https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/netmod/pDLDm8gdIBwwyGyfa_acVKHtu_Q > > > > > > > > > > > --001a114b2fbc22a6a7055410c429 Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Hi,

Do you have text from your that tha= t should be pasted into section 6.23?

I think ther= e were other issues, such as changing the terminology to reference RD.
There were comments opposing that idea because the definition for = 9;configuration'
including everything that could possibly cha= nge the behavior of the device.


And= y


On Tue, Jul 11, 2017 at 1:31 PM, Kent Watsen <kwatsen@juniper.net> wrote:

Hi Andy,<= u>

=C2=A0=

I confirmed with= Lou and Benoit that we want 6.23 to have the normative text within it,<= /u>

as we're bot= h unsure about if the nmda-guidelines draft will progress and also believe<= u>

that the text co= uld be written more helpfully for the 6087bis audience.

=C2=A0=

Would it help if= one of the nmda-guidelines authors wrote the section for you?

=C2=A0=

Thanks,

Kent=C2=A0 =C2= =A0// co-chair

=C2=A0=

=C2=A0=

On 6/20/17, 11:27 AM, "Andy Bierman" <<= a href=3D"mailto:andy@yumaworks.com" target=3D"_blank">andy@yumaworks.com> wrote:

=C2=A0

Hi,

=C2=A0

I rewrote 6.23 and it points at the NMDA guidelines.=

The drafts will get published together so the refere= nces will

be to RFCs, not I-Ds.=C2=A0 That is usually what is = meant by the comment below I think

=C2=A0



> I don't expect the guidelines doc is going to progress ind=
ependently.
Agreed.

=C2=A0

Andy

=C2=A0

On Tue, Jun 20, 2017 at 8:20 AM, Kent Watsen <kwatsen@juniper.net> wrote:

=C2=A0=

=C2=A0=

Regarding the suggest= ion to add this text:

> Guidelines for
>=C2=A0 moving existing data modules to the NMDA are defined in
>=C2=A0 [I-D.dsdt-nmda-guidelines].

I'm hoping that we do not progress the guidelines doc.=C2=A0 Ideally 60= 87bis can just state what people should do, without providing a formula for= transitioning.

=C2=A0

I thought 6087bis is supposed to point people to the= NMDA guidelines.
That is why 6087bis has been held back for so long, even though it was

supposed to be published with YANG 1.1.

=C2=A0

We waste a lot of time refactoring drafts and re-rev= iewing them.

IMO the RD guidelines should be in the RD draft.<= /u>

=C2=A0

=C2=A0

=C2=A0

=C2=A0

=C2=A0

=C2=A0


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i=@cisco.com; l=19900; q=dns/txt; s=iport; t=1499811024; x=1501020624; h=subject:to:cc:references:from:message-id:date: mime-version:in-reply-to; bh=mLhOXaDfHUCzxxhVZQWkOA+VsMMQwrkgIvrN77gKMZU=; b=ZcECYHtuJrpqMgP65ot3pUL3cyfp11/53RtFShOcLr3DTG71LUIUiel2 +zKA7g6xsH2DnuODo8/Uk97RxNY5xFb5JaJPNmmSrM5rMjJfQYsCXcxrc oOYp8SRt9/oDVvmTYTI1Y315n6ecIY+4+22g6wF92APPiU92vj0bQ/AqR s=; X-IronPort-Anti-Spam-Filtered: true X-IronPort-Anti-Spam-Result: =?us-ascii?q?A0ClAADuS2VZ/xbLJq1DGhkBAQEBAQEBA?= =?us-ascii?q?QEBAQcBAQEBAYJvgU+BFI4Jc5B8iC6IKYUsghEhAQ6Ed08CGoNjGAECAQEBAQE?= =?us-ascii?q?BAWsohRkBAQEDAQEhSwsQCQIOCicDAgICHwYfEQYNBgIBAYoTAxUQMo1MnWOCJ?= =?us-ascii?q?ieHCg2DZAEBAQEBAQEBAQEBAQEBAQEBAQEBAR2DKINNggyCeYJXT4EuLYJ8gmE?= =?us-ascii?q?FhyKJMo4VO4dIg0WDRkuEboIMV4hDI4Zci31whB6EPB84FilLMSEIGxVJhRMcg?= =?us-ascii?q?Wk+NgGILQEBAQ?= X-IronPort-AV: E=Sophos;i="5.40,347,1496102400"; d="scan'208,217";a="656024725" Received: from aer-iport-nat.cisco.com (HELO aer-core-1.cisco.com) ([173.38.203.22]) by aer-iport-4.cisco.com with ESMTP/TLS/DHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384; 11 Jul 2017 22:10:19 +0000 Received: from [10.55.221.38] (ams-bclaise-nitro5.cisco.com [10.55.221.38]) by aer-core-1.cisco.com (8.14.5/8.14.5) with ESMTP id v6BMAJFn004021; Tue, 11 Jul 2017 22:10:19 GMT To: Mahesh Jethanandani Cc: NetMod WG , Glenn Parsons , Marc Holness References: <82ab9cdf-5925-2330-b2f1-a7a299963bc0@cisco.com> <34DB7309-7B80-4219-82F0-2BF2A1F26C67@gmail.com> From: Benoit Claise Message-ID: <517d7536-4f5b-b05c-6b0b-b5d0734f4dc4@cisco.com> Date: Wed, 12 Jul 2017 00:10:19 +0200 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 6.1; WOW64; rv:52.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/52.2.1 MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: <34DB7309-7B80-4219-82F0-2BF2A1F26C67@gmail.com> Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="------------425B1CCFB8881C198B3F2609" Content-Language: en-US Archived-At: Subject: Re: [netmod] draft-ietf-netmod-acl-model-11 issue #3 X-BeenThere: netmod@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 Precedence: list List-Id: NETMOD WG list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 11 Jul 2017 22:10:29 -0000 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --------------425B1CCFB8881C198B3F2609 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit On 7/11/2017 5:55 PM, Mahesh Jethanandani wrote: > Benoit, > > Precisely. I did start in yangcatalog.com > with the search for ether-type and found that it was defined as a > string. It was helpful to get rid of the duplicate definition we had > in the ACL draft. But that raised the question of whether it should be > defined as a string, when ether-types are well known types. > > Is there a IETF-IEEE co-ordination meeting planned in Prague? Yes, Saturday afternoon. regards, B. > >> On Jul 11, 2017, at 3:25 AM, Benoit Claise > > wrote: >> >> Hi, >> >> In order to look at what has been done already, the advice is to look >> at YANG search . >> I searched on "ether.type" with the regex flag. >> Don't pay attention to the last entry, this >> will be fixed. >> >> However, specifically pay attention to the second entry, the IEEE one. >> It points to >> https://www.yangcatalog.org/yang-search/show_node.php?module=ieee802-dot1q-types&path=%2Fdot1q-types%3Aether-type&revision=2016-09-22 >> >> Regards, Benoit >>> Created issue #3 in github >>> as "The model >>> defines 'ether-type' node as a string.” with the following description. >>> >>> The model defines 'ether-type' node as a string. Ideally, this >>> should be a well defined list of all Ethernet Types assigned by >>> IEEE. This requires collaborating with IEEE. >>> >>> One suggestion was to define ether-type as identities. That works >>> for when the identities themselves are distributed and need to be >>> made extensible. >>> >>> But Ethernet Types are doled out in IEEE by Registration Authority >>> Committee (RAC), so they could choose to centrally define it as an >>> enum and give each hex string a name that could be used by models. >>> If a user wants to configure a particular ether-type, the server >>> must import a version of the IEEE 8021q model that has that enumeration. >>> >>> Alternatively, as @mbj4668 has >>> suggested, it could also be a typedef like this: >>> >>> |typedef ether-type { type union { type >>> ieee-ether-type:ether-type-enum; type uint16; // or a hex-based >>> number } } | >>> Finally, the suggestion is to have ether-type defined as a number >>> (or hex based). This is flexible, but requires users/operators to >>> read and write numbers which are harder to remember than symbolic names. >>> >>> My personal preference would be for IEEE to define and publish the >>> YANG model with the definitions. >>> >>> Mahesh Jethanandani >>> mjethanandani@gmail.com >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> netmod mailing list >>> netmod@ietf.org >>> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/netmod >> > > Mahesh Jethanandani > mjethanandani@gmail.com > --------------425B1CCFB8881C198B3F2609 Content-Type: text/html; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 PGh0bWw+DQogIDxoZWFkPg0KICAgIDxtZXRhIGh0dHAtZXF1aXY9IkNvbnRlbnQtVHlwZSIg Y29udGVudD0idGV4dC9odG1sOyBjaGFyc2V0PXV0Zi04Ij4NCiAgPC9oZWFkPg0KICA8Ym9k eSB0ZXh0PSIjMDAwMDAwIiBiZ2NvbG9yPSIjRkZGRkZGIj4NCiAgICA8ZGl2IGNsYXNzPSJt b3otY2l0ZS1wcmVmaXgiPk9uIDcvMTEvMjAxNyA1OjU1IFBNLCBNYWhlc2gNCiAgICAgIEpl dGhhbmFuZGFuaSB3cm90ZTo8YnI+DQogICAgPC9kaXY+DQogICAgPGJsb2NrcXVvdGUgdHlw 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([10.70.0.217]) by localhost (demetrius5.jacobs-university.de [10.70.0.222]) (amavisd-new, port 10032) with ESMTP id zmcPfHaux-pz; Wed, 12 Jul 2017 08:02:55 +0200 (CEST) Received: from hermes.jacobs-university.de (hermes.jacobs-university.de [212.201.44.23]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (Client CN "hermes.jacobs-university.de", Issuer "Jacobs University CA - G01" (verified OK)) by atlas5.jacobs-university.de (Postfix) with ESMTPS; Wed, 12 Jul 2017 08:02:57 +0200 (CEST) Received: from localhost (demetrius4.jacobs-university.de [212.201.44.49]) by hermes.jacobs-university.de (Postfix) with ESMTP id 833F9200A5; Wed, 12 Jul 2017 08:02:57 +0200 (CEST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at jacobs-university.de Received: from hermes.jacobs-university.de ([212.201.44.23]) by localhost (demetrius4.jacobs-university.de [212.201.44.32]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id Nb2IfKadZtHw; Wed, 12 Jul 2017 08:02:57 +0200 (CEST) Received: from elstar.local (elstar.jacobs.jacobs-university.de [10.50.231.133]) by hermes.jacobs-university.de (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3B4DA200A3; Wed, 12 Jul 2017 08:02:57 +0200 (CEST) Received: by elstar.local (Postfix, from userid 501) id 08CAB3FEB7C3; Wed, 12 Jul 2017 08:02:56 +0200 (CEST) Date: Wed, 12 Jul 2017 08:02:56 +0200 From: Juergen Schoenwaelder To: Kent Watsen Cc: "netmod@ietf.org" Message-ID: <20170712060256.GA12225@elstar.local> Reply-To: Juergen Schoenwaelder Mail-Followup-To: Kent Watsen , "netmod@ietf.org" References: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: User-Agent: Mutt/1.6.0 (2016-04-01) Archived-At: Subject: Re: [netmod] draft netmod agenda posted X-BeenThere: netmod@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 Precedence: list List-Id: NETMOD WG list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 12 Jul 2017 06:03:02 -0000 On Tue, Jul 11, 2017 at 09:48:30PM +0000, Kent Watsen wrote: > > Could all the presenters please have a slide on their module's NMDA > compatibility status? Things to consider: > > - is the operational state of configured values important? > - is there is a need to support system generated entries? > - note: if yes to either, the module SHOULD be NMDA-compatible. > is it? - is there a "-state" tree in the Appendix? > I find this confusing. I think modules should be default be NMDA-compatible. I also think -state trees should be avoided as much as possible. So the questions should be something like this: - Is the module NMDA-compatible? If not, why not? - Does the appendix include a -state tree? If so, why is it necessary and how to transition away from it? /js -- Juergen Schoenwaelder Jacobs University Bremen gGmbH Phone: +49 421 200 3587 Campus Ring 1 | 28759 Bremen | Germany Fax: +49 421 200 3103 From nobody Wed Jul 12 09:56:55 2017 Return-Path: X-Original-To: netmod@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: netmod@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id C3645127978; Wed, 12 Jul 2017 09:56:54 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -14.502 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-14.502 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_HI=-5, RP_MATCHES_RCVD=-0.001, SPF_HELO_PASS=-0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, USER_IN_DEF_DKIM_WL=-7.5] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (1024-bit key) header.d=cisco.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id rZfVk24brYJR; Wed, 12 Jul 2017 09:56:52 -0700 (PDT) Received: from aer-iport-4.cisco.com (aer-iport-4.cisco.com [173.38.203.54]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher DHE-RSA-SEED-SHA (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id B6E5B1300CF; Wed, 12 Jul 2017 09:56:51 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/simple; d=cisco.com; i=@cisco.com; l=15941; q=dns/txt; s=iport; t=1499878611; x=1501088211; h=subject:to:references:cc:from:message-id:date: mime-version:in-reply-to; bh=1Yw85e12xvvuMUFHVeXAQdD4ruqdm6FBx5u6wMZ7l1s=; b=lJdyadfLwHYR/A/zXFuN/EgIxKWDORelhPlOhF6e/WrO1QUd5Doztv6J vaJ1473XK/lgYR6WJyGMBb2k8f2fuxtMjKDMEKjRoetmthfXEYGBwvJIv TqSZcFBIFB736xT4lUssmKVzd3LIcMx/5nZG4U4vSBKV29mCc1D44W8uY k=; X-IronPort-AV: E=Sophos;i="5.40,350,1496102400"; d="scan'208,217";a="656043594" Received: from aer-iport-nat.cisco.com (HELO aer-core-2.cisco.com) ([173.38.203.22]) by aer-iport-4.cisco.com with ESMTP/TLS/DHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384; 12 Jul 2017 16:56:50 +0000 Received: from [10.63.23.142] (dhcp-ensft1-uk-vla370-10-63-23-142.cisco.com [10.63.23.142]) by aer-core-2.cisco.com (8.14.5/8.14.5) with ESMTP id v6CGundS030320; Wed, 12 Jul 2017 16:56:50 GMT To: Benoit Claise , NETMOD Working Group References: Cc: "draft-ietf-netmod-revised-datastores@ietf.org" From: Robert Wilton Message-ID: <3bb7e104-6907-dcf5-191e-eb8827595423@cisco.com> Date: Wed, 12 Jul 2017 17:56:49 +0100 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 10.0; WOW64; rv:52.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/52.2.1 MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="------------8D069251811493D55A15D9F0" Content-Language: en-US Archived-At: Subject: Re: [netmod] draft-ietf-netmod-revised-datastores-03 feedback X-BeenThere: netmod@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 Precedence: list List-Id: NETMOD WG list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 12 Jul 2017 16:56:55 -0000 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --------------8D069251811493D55A15D9F0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hi Benoit, Thanks for the review. Some of these points will probably require further discussion. Please see inline ... On 11/07/2017 14:55, Benoit Claise wrote: > Dear all, > > Good job on this document. > > Some comments below. > > - > > OLD: > o learned configuration: Configuration that has been learned via > protocol interactions with other systems that is not conventional > or dynamic configuration. > > NEW (is this what wou want to say?): > o learned configuration: Configuration that has been learned via dynamic configuration > or protocol interactions with other systems that is not conventional The aim here is to indicate that "learned configuration" explicitly excluded configuration data that comes via the conventional or dynamic datastores. So, configuration from I2RS would be dynamic configuration and not learned configuration. > > Thinking some more about this definition. Let's come back to it. > > - > > o dynamic datastore: A datastore holding data obtained dynamically > during the operation of a device through interaction with other > systems, rather than through one of the conventional configuration > datastores. > > > Should the dynamic datastore should say: > o dynamic datastore: A datastore holding configuration data obtained dynamically ... We think that dynamic datastores may also contain data for nodes that are not configuration. Every schema node that is "config true" is configuration and hence may be programmed via the conventional datastores. The I2RS requirements wants to be able to write to config false nodes, my assumption is that this is because they don't want all of their I2RS specific models (e.g. for modifying RIB/FIB entries) to also have to be configurable via conventional datastores. So, this is the reason that it refers to "data" rather than "configuration". > > > Background: > Reading this definition: > o system state: The additional data on a system that is not > configuration, such as read-only status information and collected > statistics. System state is transient and modified by > interactions with internal components or other systems. System > state is modeled in YANG using "config false" nodes. > > I guessed that the system states don't include the content from the dynamic datastore. > It's not obvious with the current definitions. If the dynamic datastore contains data for config false schema nodes then this would modify the system state in the operational state datastore. > > > > - This figure and section 4.7 text. > > +-------------+ +-----------+ > | | | | > | (ct, rw) |<---+ +--->| (ct, rw) | > +-------------+ | | +-----------+ > | | | | > | +-----------+ | > +-------->| |<--------+ > | (ct, rw) | > +-----------+ > | > | // configuration transformations, > | // e.g., removal of "inactive" > | // nodes, expansion of templates > v > +------------+ > | | // subject to validation > | (ct, ro) | > +------------+ > | // changes applied, subject to > | // local factors, e.g., missing > | // resources, delays > | > | +-------- learned configuration > dynamic | +-------- system configuration > datastores -----+ | +-------- default configuration > | | | > v v v > +---------------+ > | | <-- system state > | (ct + cf, ro) | > +---------------+ > > > Section 4.7 > contains system state and all configuration actually > used by the system. This includes all applied configuration from > , system-provided configuration, and default values defined > by any supported data models. In addition, also > contains applied data from dynamic datastores. > > What about "learned configuration" This is an omission and should be added. > > - Section 3. > The important question is whether the section 2 "datastore" and > "configuration datastore" definitions are aligned with previous > definitions or not. > I guess not. If this is the case, it should be clearly mentioned. OK. The definition of "datastore" aligns with NETCONF (RFC 6241) updated by YANG 1.1 (RFC 7050). The definition of "configuration datastore" is slightly different, but I believe that it is meant to be semantically equivalent. > > - Section 4.5 > No need to repeat what's in the terminology section. Do you mean not to mention the conventional datastores at all here? Currently the text does expand somewhat on the definition in the terminology section. > > - Section 4.7 > > OLD: > In the original NETCONF model the operational > state only had "config false" nodes. > > OLD: > In the original NETCONF model (RFC6241 or section 3.1) the operational > state only had "config false" nodes. OK. > > - Security Considerations. > You might want to stress that, even if this document contains YANG > modules, those modules have no read or read/write leaves: only > identities and a metadata. Hence "YANG module security guidelines" > don't apply. > Now, there surely exist some security considerations anyway. Yes. > > - Is appendix A normative? > Should it move to the document core? I'm not sure on this one. > > Regards, Benoit Thanks, Rob > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > netmod mailing list > netmod@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/netmod --------------8D069251811493D55A15D9F0 Content-Type: text/html; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit

Hi Benoit,

Thanks for the review.  Some of these points will probably require further discussion.

Please see inline ...


On 11/07/2017 14:55, Benoit Claise wrote:
Dear all,

Good job on this document.

Some comments below.

-

OLD:
   o  learned configuration: Configuration that has been learned via
      protocol interactions with other systems that is not conventional
      or dynamic configuration.

NEW (is this what wou want to say?):
   o  learned configuration: Configuration that has been learned via dynamic configuration
      or protocol interactions with other systems that is not conventional
The aim here is to indicate that "learned configuration" explicitly excluded configuration data that comes via the conventional or dynamic datastores.

So, configuration from I2RS would be dynamic configuration and not learned configuration.


Thinking some more about this definition. Let's come back to it.

-
 
   o  dynamic datastore: A datastore holding data obtained dynamically
      during the operation of a device through interaction with other
      systems, rather than through one of the conventional configuration
      datastores.


Should the dynamic datastore should say:
   o  dynamic datastore: A datastore holding configuration data obtained dynamically ...
We think that dynamic datastores may also contain data for nodes that are not configuration.  Every schema node that is "config true" is configuration and hence may be programmed via the conventional datastores.  The I2RS requirements wants to be able to write to config false nodes, my assumption is that this is because they don't want all of their I2RS specific models (e.g. for modifying RIB/FIB entries) to also have to be configurable via conventional datastores.

So, this is the reason that it refers to "data" rather than "configuration".



Background:
Reading this definition:
  o  system state: The additional data on a system that is not
      configuration, such as read-only status information and collected
      statistics.  System state is transient and modified by
      interactions with internal components or other systems.  System
      state is modeled in YANG using "config false" nodes.

I guessed that the system states don't include the content from the dynamic datastore.
It's not obvious with the current definitions.
If the dynamic datastore contains data for config false schema nodes then this would modify the system state in the operational state datastore.

- This figure and section 4.7 text.

     +-------------+                 +-----------+
     | <candidate> |                 | <startup> |
     |  (ct, rw)   |<---+       +--->| (ct, rw)  |
     +-------------+    |       |    +-----------+
            |           |       |           |
            |         +-----------+         |
            +-------->| <running> |<--------+
                      | (ct, rw)  |
                      +-----------+
                            |
                            |        // configuration transformations,
                            |        // e.g., removal of "inactive"
                            |        // nodes, expansion of templates
                            v
                      +------------+
                      | <intended> | // subject to validation
                      | (ct, ro)   |
                      +------------+
                            |        // changes applied, subject to
                            |        // local factors, e.g., missing
                            |        // resources, delays
                            |
                            |   +-------- learned configuration
       dynamic              |   +-------- system configuration
       datastores -----+    |   +-------- default configuration
                       |    |   |
                       v    v   v
                    +---------------+
                    | <operational> | <-- system state
                    | (ct + cf, ro) |
                    +---------------+


  Section 4.7
   <operational> contains system state and all configuration actually
   used by the system.  This includes all applied configuration from
   <intended>, system-provided configuration, and default values defined
   by any supported data models.  In addition, <operational> also
   contains applied data from dynamic datastores.
What about "learned configuration"
This is an omission and should be added.



- Section 3.
The important question is whether the section 2 "datastore" and "configuration datastore" definitions are aligned with previous definitions or not.
I guess not. If this is the case, it should be clearly mentioned.
OK.

The definition of "datastore" aligns with NETCONF (RFC 6241) updated by YANG 1.1 (RFC 7050).

The definition of "configuration datastore" is slightly different, but I believe that it is meant to be semantically equivalent.


- Section 4.5
No need to repeat what's in the terminology section.
Do you mean not to mention the conventional datastores at all here?  Currently the text does expand somewhat on the definition in the terminology section.


- Section 4.7

OLD:
   In the original NETCONF model the operational
   state only had "config false" nodes.
OLD:
   In the original NETCONF model (RFC6241 or section 3.1) the operational
   state only had "config false" nodes.
OK.


- Security Considerations.
You might want to stress that, even if this document contains YANG modules, those modules have no read or read/write leaves: only identities and a metadata. Hence "YANG module security guidelines" don't apply.
Now, there surely exist some security considerations anyway.
Yes.


- Is appendix A normative?
Should it move to the document core?
I'm not sure on this one.


Regards, Benoit
Thanks,
Rob

















_______________________________________________
netmod mailing list
netmod@ietf.org
https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/netmod

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h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:in-reply-to:references:from:date :message-id:subject:to:cc; bh=rvIA+IjRvVHWVcGBiMgah8OEF0C2F/Iap2/UF+69ltg=; b=ZQwwQ6Khx6EZRuxDfR4Bm5Z6SDHVVRRqtl6q3O8xf+J7SEssc8b/2ShJaaHwc3qzn4 c22WHv+rh9NgZEf5+zJsal7LvtYkmh4uSf/UOeBm2JSKAvaK2rsUOaUh/0YR7SiFbZAj /INzLCcyPScVUePKet7r0Cr6DmdSujDyVMYGC2ImASgdSJx6BuaSnzG8ae6Nl+FOqXQR 8hjFyKHSNr3wUvnhIDHxi326eWaqDNcl9pXd4hbXD9aPOj5PusGPw0bUOdt8ynQMDX7H zRSqi7+8rTV9O7tFr4RK2OJ39MgNrotl03hJ5R5ykbTNp60RUnwj4sWokCpcU0/8QgsG 2m/Q== X-Gm-Message-State: AIVw111xmN3NrJ6xwgJYCkUj7nnqA3lhKaFoKXLLw4JQ2A4Fhrx2Pq9i SBt1nrMJN+Z/SzcHw+LVCOEIV4GIf8I7 X-Received: by 10.28.152.141 with SMTP id a135mr437590wme.39.1499982155853; Thu, 13 Jul 2017 14:42:35 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.223.152.196 with HTTP; Thu, 13 Jul 2017 14:42:34 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: References: <20170712060256.GA12225@elstar.local> From: Andy Bierman Date: Thu, 13 Jul 2017 14:42:34 -0700 Message-ID: To: Kent Watsen Cc: Juergen Schoenwaelder , "netmod@ietf.org" Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="001a114b2fbc91d4ad055439cf0a" Archived-At: Subject: Re: [netmod] draft netmod agenda posted X-BeenThere: netmod@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 Precedence: list List-Id: NETMOD WG list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 13 Jul 2017 21:42:39 -0000 --001a114b2fbc91d4ad055439cf0a Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" On Thu, Jul 13, 2017 at 7:28 AM, Kent Watsen wrote: > > > > >> Could all the presenters please have a slide on their module's NMDA > >> compatibility status? Things to consider: > >> > >> - is the operational state of configured values important? > >> - is there is a need to support system generated entries? > >> - note: if yes to either, the module SHOULD be NMDA-compatible. > >> is it? - is there a "-state" tree in the Appendix? > >> > > > >I find this confusing. I think modules should be default be > >NMDA-compatible. I also think -state trees should be avoided > >as much as possible. So the questions should be something like > >this: > If the module contains any config=false top-level subtrees (like the /foo-state container and nested config=false nodes) then the foo-state tree is needed. If all the config=false nodes are child nodes of a config node, then the foo-state stree should not be needed. It would be nice if the term "NMDA-compatible" was widely understood. There should be simple tests to determine if /foo-state is needed. > > > - Is the module NMDA-compatible? If not, why not? > > - Does the appendix include a -state tree? If so, why is > > it necessary and how to transition away from it? > > Yes, by all means, this is even more to the point. > > I thought the foo-state modules were supposed to be generated by tools, not defined in RFCs. Isn't the migration strategy the same for everybody? Remove the foo-state module and stop advertising it to the client (which is expected to use the operational datastore). Isn't it up to vendors and operators, not the IETF, when the foo-state module should be removed from a server implementation? Thanks, > Kent > > Andy > > _______________________________________________ > netmod mailing list > netmod@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/netmod > --001a114b2fbc91d4ad055439cf0a Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable


On Thu, Jul 13, 2017 at 7:28 AM, Kent Watsen <kwatsen@juniper.net> wrote:



>> Could all the presenters please have a slide on their module's= NMDA
>> compatibility status?=C2=A0 Things to consider:
>>
>>=C2=A0 - is the operational state of configured values important? >>=C2=A0 - is there is a need to support system generated entries? >>=C2=A0 - note: if yes to either, the module SHOULD be NMDA-compatib= le.
>>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 is it? - is there a "-state= " tree in the Appendix?
>>
>
>I find this confusing. I think modules should be default be
>NMDA-compatible. I also think -state trees should be avoided
>as much as possible. So the questions should be something like
>this:


If the module = contains any config=3Dfalse top-level subtrees (like the /foo-state contain= er
and nested config=3Dfalse nodes) then the foo-state tree is ne= eded.=C2=A0 If all the config=3Dfalse
nodes are child nodes of a = config node, then the foo-state stree should not be needed.

<= /div>
It would be nice if the term "NMDA-compatible" was wide= ly understood.
There should be simple tests to determine if /foo-= state is needed.

>
> - Is the module NMDA-compatible? If not, why not?
> - Does the appendix include a -state tree? If so, why is
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0it necessary and how to transition away from it?

Yes, by all means, this is even more to the point.


I thought the foo-state modules were s= upposed to be generated by tools, not defined in RFCs.
Isn't = the migration strategy the same for everybody? Remove the foo-state module = and stop
advertising it to the client (which is expected to use t= he operational datastore).
Isn't it up to vendors and operato= rs, not the IETF, when the foo-state module should
be removed fro= m a server implementation?


Thanks,
Kent


Andy
=C2=A0

_______________________________________________
netmod mailing list
netmod@ietf.org
https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/netmod

--001a114b2fbc91d4ad055439cf0a-- From nobody Thu Jul 13 19:42:22 2017 Return-Path: X-Original-To: netmod@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: netmod@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 11386131943 for ; Thu, 13 Jul 2017 19:42:21 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -4.222 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-4.222 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-2.3, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_H3=-0.01, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_WL=-0.01, RP_MATCHES_RCVD=-0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 3_Xsy6D-bdId for ; Thu, 13 Jul 2017 19:42:19 -0700 (PDT) Received: from lhrrgout.huawei.com (lhrrgout.huawei.com [194.213.3.17]) (using TLSv1 with cipher RC4-SHA (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 6B4151317E1 for ; Thu, 13 Jul 2017 19:42:18 -0700 (PDT) Received: from 172.18.7.190 (EHLO lhreml708-cah.china.huawei.com) ([172.18.7.190]) by lhrrg01-dlp.huawei.com (MOS 4.3.7-GA FastPath queued) with ESMTP id DRB69594; Fri, 14 Jul 2017 02:42:16 +0000 (GMT) Received: from DGGEMM401-HUB.china.huawei.com (10.3.20.209) by lhreml708-cah.china.huawei.com (10.201.108.49) with Microsoft SMTP Server (TLS) id 14.3.301.0; Fri, 14 Jul 2017 03:42:14 +0100 Received: from DGGEMM506-MBX.china.huawei.com ([169.254.3.18]) by DGGEMM401-HUB.china.huawei.com ([10.3.20.209]) with mapi id 14.03.0301.000; Fri, 14 Jul 2017 10:42:10 +0800 From: wangzitao To: "netmod@ietf.org" Thread-Topic: Please provide your slides. Thread-Index: AdL8SsEQbZO/pHDORDqBkMrU5qZU7g== Date: Fri, 14 Jul 2017 02:42:10 +0000 Message-ID: Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: zh-CN X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-originating-ip: [10.136.79.161] Content-Type: text/plain; charset="gb2312" Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-CFilter-Loop: Reflected X-Mirapoint-Virus-RAPID-Raw: score=unknown(0), refid=str=0001.0A0B0203.59682F88.008E, ss=1, re=0.000, recu=0.000, reip=0.000, cl=1, cld=1, fgs=0, ip=169.254.3.18, so=2013-06-18 04:22:30, dmn=2013-03-21 17:37:32 X-Mirapoint-Loop-Id: db294b7a3cc9be04f3bc17e3c4f1daae Archived-At: Subject: [netmod] Please provide your slides. X-BeenThere: netmod@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 Precedence: list List-Id: NETMOD WG list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 14 Jul 2017 02:42:21 -0000 RGVhciBXRywNCg0KVGhlIE5ldG1vZCBTZXNzaW9uIGFnZW5kYSBoYXMgYmVlbiBwb3N0ZWQ6ICAN CiAgaHR0cHM6Ly9kYXRhdHJhY2tlci5pZXRmLm9yZy9tZWV0aW5nLzk5L2FnZW5kYS9uZXRtb2Qv DQoNCkBQcmVzZW50ZXJzOiANClNpbmNlIHRoZSBmaXJzdCBzZXNzaW9uIG9uIE1vbmRheSwgSnVs eSAxNy4gU28gcGxlYXNlIHByb3ZpZGUgeW91ciBzbGlkZXMgYnkgSnVseSAxNiwgMjAxNyB0byBv dXIgY2hhaXJzIGFuZCBtZS4NCg0KQmVzdCBSZWdhcmRzIQ0KLU1pY2hhZWwNCg0KDQotLS0tLdPK vP7Urbz+LS0tLS0NCreivP7IyzogbmV0bW9kIFttYWlsdG86bmV0bW9kLWJvdW5jZXNAaWV0Zi5v cmddILT6se0gS2VudCBXYXRzZW4NCreiy83KsbzkOiAyMDE3xOo31MI4yNUgNToyMw0KytW8/sjL OiBuZXRtb2RAaWV0Zi5vcmcNCtb3zOI6IFtuZXRtb2RdIGRyYWZ0IG5ldG1vZCBhZ2VuZGEgcG9z dGVkDQoNCg0KVGhlIGRyYWZ0IGFnZW5kYSBmb3IgdGhlIE5FVE1PRCBzZXNzaW9ucyBhdCBJRVRG IDk5IGhhcyBiZWVuIHBvc3RlZDoNCg0KICBodHRwczovL2RhdGF0cmFja2VyLmlldGYub3JnL21l ZXRpbmcvOTkvYWdlbmRhL25ldG1vZC8NCg0KUGxlYXNlIGxldCB1cyBrbm93IGlmIGFueSBhZGp1 c3RtZW50cyBhcmUgbmVlZGVkLg0KDQpUaGFua3MsDQpORVRNT0QgV0cgQ2hhaXJzDQoNCg0KDQpf X19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fXw0KbmV0bW9kIG1h aWxpbmcgbGlzdA0KbmV0bW9kQGlldGYub3JnDQpodHRwczovL3d3dy5pZXRmLm9yZy9tYWlsbWFu L2xpc3RpbmZvL25ldG1vZA0K From nobody Sun Jul 16 10:31:51 2017 Return-Path: X-Original-To: netmod@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: netmod@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3CD4D124D68; Sun, 16 Jul 2017 10:31:50 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.62 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.62 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW=-0.7, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_H3=-0.01, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_WL=-0.01] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id PRBj7mepFisW; Sun, 16 Jul 2017 10:31:48 -0700 (PDT) Received: from relay3-d.mail.gandi.net (relay3-d.mail.gandi.net [217.70.183.195]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher AECDH-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 4751212F4B2; Sun, 16 Jul 2017 10:31:48 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mfilter17-d.gandi.net (mfilter17-d.gandi.net [217.70.178.145]) by relay3-d.mail.gandi.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id B433BA80CE; Sun, 16 Jul 2017 19:31:46 +0200 (CEST) X-Virus-Scanned: Debian amavisd-new at mfilter17-d.gandi.net Received: from relay3-d.mail.gandi.net ([IPv6:::ffff:217.70.183.195]) by mfilter17-d.gandi.net (mfilter17-d.gandi.net [::ffff:10.0.15.180]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id XT68b5C6jsg7; Sun, 16 Jul 2017 19:31:45 +0200 (CEST) X-Originating-IP: 89.176.18.156 Received: from [10.10.22.149] (ip-89-176-18-156.net.upcbroadband.cz [89.176.18.156]) (Authenticated sender: alex@ackl.io) by relay3-d.mail.gandi.net (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id DE626A80D8; Sun, 16 Jul 2017 19:31:42 +0200 (CEST) From: Alexander Pelov Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 10.3 \(3273\)) Message-Id: <1C06C3D6-9C50-4C27-803F-B4BC808A9402@ackl.io> Date: Sun, 16 Jul 2017 19:31:48 +0200 Cc: yot@ietf.org, Benoit Claise To: netmod@ietf.org, Core , t2trg X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.3273) Archived-At: Subject: [netmod] Side meeting on Yang of Things X-BeenThere: netmod@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 Precedence: list List-Id: NETMOD WG list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sun, 16 Jul 2017 17:31:50 -0000 Dear all, As you have probably seen the announcement, a new non-WG mailing list = was created - YoT@ietf.org We=E2=80=99ll have a side meeting on Thursday, 20th, 10h-12h in room = Tyrolka, Mezzanine Level. The description of the mailing list is as follows: YANG is the method of choice in the IETF for describing data models = exposed by manageable items. It is currently being used in the context = of the NETCONF (and, increasingly, RESTCONF) protocols, which generally = target high-function devices. The Coman initiative (RFC 7547, 7548) = investigated requirements and use cases for management of networks with = constrained devices. Building blocks for protocols that make this a = reality (COMI) are emerging in the CoRE working group; however, CoRE as = a WG is not currently focused on network or device management. The "Yang of Things=E2=80=9D (YOT) non-WG mailing list will discuss best = practices for using YANG-based data modeling for the management of = networks with constrained devices and constrained networks. It will also = address how to best make use of properties of the combination of = technologies involved (YANG, CBOR, SID, CoAP, RESTCONF, =E2=80=A6). Of = interest are the ways these same technologies could be applied outside = the COMI focus of interest. The YOT mailing list will also be the proper = forum to discuss new YANG modules targeting constrained devices and = networks. This is the preliminary agenda (subject to change): - Introduction - 10 min: Why YANG for IoT?=20 - The CoMI framework (30 min) - 10 min: The CoMI protocol (and its relation to NETCONF/RESTCONF) - = Michel Veillette, Peter van der Stok - 10 min: YANG-to-CBOR - Michel Veillette - 10 min: The SID registry - Alexander Pelov - Mapping existing tools to YANG (10 min) - 5 min: LWM2M to CoMI - Peter van der Stok, Jaime Jimenez - 5 min: Ressource Directory to CoMI - Alexander Pelov - CoMI for IoT (as of today) (20 min) - 5 min: Firmware update over CoMI - Michel Veillette, Alexander Pelov - 5 min: Event logger and notification control - Michel Veillette - 5 min: 6TiSCH - TBD - 5 min: LPWAN - Laurent Toutain - Yang for IoT (20 min) - 10 min: YANG for embedded systems: Andy Bierman - 10 min: Manufacturer Usage Description (MUD) - Eliot Lear, Thorsten = Dahm - Discussions (30 min) - What other points could YANG address for IoT? - Interaction models for YANG and IoT - Intersection between YANG and IoT communities - Getting YANG out of the routers - Getting efficient technologies to routers (from the constrained = world) - Events, notifications, security, =E2=80=A6 For any questions or comments, please use the mailing list: yot@ietf.org See you on Thursday ! Best, Alexander PS. 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09:38:51.4500 (UTC) X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-fromentityheader: Hosted X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-id: 5d471751-9675-428d-917b-70f44f9630b0 X-MS-Exchange-Transport-CrossTenantHeadersStamped: HE1PR07MB0795 Archived-At: Subject: Re: [netmod] Clarification Question on draft-dsdt-nmda-guidelines-01 X-BeenThere: netmod@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 Precedence: list List-Id: NETMOD WG list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 17 Jul 2017 09:38:58 -0000 Hi guys, This is something that could use further clarification in the draft. i.e. = examples and guidelines of when to create a separate "config false" leaf (v= s the more typical case of just having a single "config true" leaf). Ther= e is an example in there currently but I personally found it confusing: "An example would be the speed of an interface, where the configured value may not be the value that is currently used." I wasn't sure if that example referred to the same issue as you guys are di= scussing below. Perhaps as a minimum we could grab some of the details for= the example below and incorporate them into the draft ? Rgds, Jason > -----Original Message----- > From: netmod [mailto:netmod-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of Robert Wilton > Sent: Wednesday, June 14, 2017 17:54 > To: Mahesh Jethanandani > Cc: Xufeng Liu ; netmod@ietf.org; draft-dsdt-nmda- > guidelines@ietf.org > Subject: Re: [netmod] Clarification Question on draft-dsdt-nmda-guideline= s-01 >=20 >=20 >=20 > On 14/06/2017 16:23, Mahesh Jethanandani wrote: > >> On Jun 14, 2017, at 8:10 AM, Robert Wilton wrote: > >> > >> Hi Xufeng, > >> > >> > >> On 14/06/2017 14:01, Xufeng Liu wrote: > >>> Hi Juergen, > >>> > >>> Thanks for the confirmation. > >>> As for the distinction between applied configuration and operational,= I > think that it has been determined to be useful in some use cases. We can > create a separate leaf in such a case. > >> Yes, I think that this is exactly the right approach. > >> > >> In the general case, a single leaf for applied configuration and the > operational value is normally sufficient. > >> > >> But in some cases (e.g. where a value could be configured and/or > negotiated via protocol) then it sometimes useful to both see the input i= nto the > protocol negotiation and also the resultant output value. > >> > >> Here, there is a choice to be made to decide whether the extra config = false > leaf represents the input value into the negotiation, or the output value= . I > think that the decision probably depends on the protocol semantics, but a= ll > things being equal, there is a benefit if the configured value and actual > operational value end up being represented by the same leaf/path (since t= his in > the case in the mainline case where extra config false leaves are not req= uired). > > Another way to look at it is whether the input value is truly different= from the > output value. For example, if the input value is auto-negotiation, a bool= ean, but > the output value is a speed of 10/100/1000/10000, a uint32, then a separa= te > leaf makes sense. > Yes, agreed. >=20 > For cases like these (e.g. Ethernet auto-negotiation) a good approach see= m to > be to model the leaf "enabling auto" as a separate leaf from the explicit= ly > configured/operational value. >=20 > Thanks, > Rob >=20 >=20 > > > >> Thanks, > >> Rob > >> > >> > >>> Regards, > >>> - Xufeng > >>> > >>>> -----Original Message----- > >>>> From: Juergen Schoenwaelder > >>>> [mailto:j.schoenwaelder@jacobs-university.de] > >>>> Sent: Tuesday, June 13, 2017 4:10 PM > >>>> To: Xufeng Liu > >>>> Cc: draft-dsdt-nmda-guidelines@ietf.org; netmod@ietf.org > >>>> Subject: Re: Clarification Question on > >>>> draft-dsdt-nmda-guidelines-01 > >>>> > >>>> Hi, > >>>> > >>>> the typical -state tree consists of config false nodes and hence it > >>>> represents operational state. This is not a transitioning period > >>>> question, this is how -state trees were designed. Note also that > >>>> the applied configuration is part of the operational state in NMDA > >>>> - for config true objects, there is no difference between the > >>>> applied configuration value and the operationally used value - they = are > the same. > >>>> > >>>> /js > >>>> > >>>> On Tue, Jun 13, 2017 at 07:53:32PM +0000, Xufeng Liu wrote: > >>>>> During discussing the adoption of this guidelines, a question came > >>>>> up w.r.t. the > >>>> semantics of the non-NMDA "-state" module during the transitioning > period: > >>>>> What kind of state do the leaves in the "-state" module represent? > >>>>> The applied > >>>> configuration or the actually used operational data? > >>>>> Since only of the two types can be represented, what is the > >>>>> guideline to model > >>>> the other type? > >>>>> Thanks, > >>>>> - Xufeng > >>>> -- > >>>> Juergen Schoenwaelder Jacobs University Bremen gGmbH > >>>> Phone: +49 421 200 3587 Campus Ring 1 | 28759 Bremen | Germa= ny > >>>> Fax: +49 421 200 3103 > >>> . > >>> > >> _______________________________________________ > >> netmod mailing list > >> netmod@ietf.org > >> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/netmod > > Mahesh Jethanandani > > mjethanandani@gmail.com > > > > > > > > . > > >=20 > _______________________________________________ > netmod mailing list > netmod@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/netmod From nobody Mon Jul 17 03:22:37 2017 Return-Path: X-Original-To: netmod@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: netmod@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 911FB1252BA for ; 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spamdiagnosticoutput: 1:99 spamdiagnosticmetadata: NSPM Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="_000_HE1PR07MB0843E564221108DBA216BFEB9BA00HE1PR07MB0843eurp_" MIME-Version: 1.0 X-OriginatorOrg: nokia.com X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-originalarrivaltime: 17 Jul 2017 10:22:30.8415 (UTC) X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-fromentityheader: Hosted X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-id: 5d471751-9675-428d-917b-70f44f9630b0 X-MS-Exchange-Transport-CrossTenantHeadersStamped: HE1PR07MB1642 Archived-At: Subject: [netmod] nmda-guidelines-01: value space for config vs state X-BeenThere: netmod@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 Precedence: list List-Id: NETMOD WG list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 17 Jul 2017 10:22:35 -0000 --_000_HE1PR07MB0843E564221108DBA216BFEB9BA00HE1PR07MB0843eurp_ Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hi all, A note in Rob Wilton's presentation today in rtgwg mentioned something abou= t consistency in the value space for config vs state leafs. The NMDA appro= ach results in the same leaf for both config & state in many cases (at leas= t for the cases where the separate config & state leafs were only there to = represent intended vs applied config). But aren't there some cases where the value space for state will be differe= nt than the value space for config ? I'm thinking of the basic admin/oper = state for interfaces for example where config may allow enable/disable but = state may have additional values like 'testing'. If the config & state val= ue spaces aren't 100% the same, are module designers recommended to create = a separate state leaf ? Rgds, Jason --_000_HE1PR07MB0843E564221108DBA216BFEB9BA00HE1PR07MB0843eurp_ Content-Type: text/html; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

Hi all,

 

A note in Rob Wilton’s presentation today in r= tgwg mentioned something about consistency in the value space for config vs= state leafs.  The NMDA approach results in the same leaf for both con= fig & state in many cases (at least for the cases where the separate config & state leafs were only there to represent i= ntended vs applied config).

 

But aren’t there some cases where the value sp= ace for state will be different than the value space for config ?  I&#= 8217;m thinking of the basic admin/oper state for interfaces for example wh= ere config may allow enable/disable but state may have additional values like ‘testing’.  If the config & st= ate value spaces aren’t 100% the same, are module designers recommend= ed to create a separate state leaf ?

 

Rgds,

Jason

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They still need part of the operational datastore, but might not (will probably not) have a separate operational state for configuration from running/intended. Shall they just present the running configuration as part of operational? draft-ietf-netmod-revised-datastores-03 ------------------------------------------- 4.1, 4.3) "If a device does not have a distinct and non-volatile is available, the device will typically use that non-volatile storage to allow to persist across reboots." It has been a long standing problem for us that we don't prescribe how and when the device persists configuration. "Typically" is a very week word I would like to see a SHOULD or better a MUST. draft-dsdt-nmda-netconf-00 ------------------------------------------- For us the most important part of the whole datastore restructuring is the clean association of config and system-state data. We must be able to issue a get-xxx operation to get ONLY the system-state data for a particular branch. I don't see any way to filter a get-data on config=false. Problem. I think we should have a get-data filter based on origin Yang model, get-data) IMHO 2 leafs are missing from get-data: with-defaults and origin draft-dsdt-nmda-guidelines-01 ------------------------------------------- I would love to see a plan for updating existing models. Our priorities being ietf-system, ietf-interfaces Page 8) "(c) For published models, the model should be republished with an NMDA-compatible structure, deprecating non-NMDA constructs." RFC7950 is very vague about what deprecated means (IMHO this is a problem in the RFC). "deprecated" indicates an obsolete definition, but it permits new/continued implementation" This does mean the fully functional implementation MUST still be in place, it allows a node to remove it. If we allow a node to remove e.g. /interfaces-state that is a problem. What do we really mean in this case? We better state it explicitly. draft-nmdsdt-netconf-rfc7895bis-01 ------------------------------------------- A lot of things should be mandatory and are not including module-name, revision. They are needed by the user. It is even stranger that deviations refer t modules by name, but the name is optional in the list of modules. Is it an error if a module containing only config=false data is listed for the running datastore? IMHO not, it should just be ignored in the running datastore? The module-set-id only reference to the legacy part both in /yanglib:yang-library-change/yanglib:module-set-id and /yanglib:modules-state/yanglib:module-set-id. I assume this will change also if something changes in the /yanglib:yang-library and the notification will also be sent. regards Balazs -- Balazs Lengyel Ericsson Hungary Ltd. Senior Specialist Mobile: +36-70-330-7909 email: Balazs.Lengyel@ericsson.com From nobody Mon Jul 17 04:23:30 2017 Return-Path: X-Original-To: netmod@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: netmod@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id C6455131461 for ; Mon, 17 Jul 2017 04:23:28 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.9 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.9 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, RP_MATCHES_RCVD=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id mQOqBU8M3zaY for ; Mon, 17 Jul 2017 04:23:26 -0700 (PDT) Received: from atlas5.jacobs-university.de (atlas5.jacobs-university.de [212.201.44.20]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher AECDH-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 5547412EBF9 for ; Mon, 17 Jul 2017 04:23:26 -0700 (PDT) Received: from localhost (demetrius5.irc-it.jacobs-university.de [10.70.0.222]) by atlas5.jacobs-university.de (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2AC626C5; Mon, 17 Jul 2017 13:23:25 +0200 (CEST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at jacobs-university.de Received: from atlas5.jacobs-university.de ([10.70.0.217]) by localhost (demetrius5.jacobs-university.de [10.70.0.222]) (amavisd-new, port 10032) with ESMTP id pEg86ljYxTFR; Mon, 17 Jul 2017 13:23:24 +0200 (CEST) Received: from hermes.jacobs-university.de (hermes.jacobs-university.de [212.201.44.23]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (Client CN "hermes.jacobs-university.de", Issuer "Jacobs University CA - G01" (verified OK)) by atlas5.jacobs-university.de (Postfix) with ESMTPS; Mon, 17 Jul 2017 13:23:24 +0200 (CEST) Received: from localhost (demetrius1.jacobs-university.de [212.201.44.46]) by hermes.jacobs-university.de (Postfix) with ESMTP id D9154200AA; Mon, 17 Jul 2017 13:23:24 +0200 (CEST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at jacobs-university.de Received: from hermes.jacobs-university.de ([212.201.44.23]) by localhost (demetrius1.jacobs-university.de [212.201.44.32]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id dQkqzgqw_yC3; Mon, 17 Jul 2017 13:23:24 +0200 (CEST) Received: from elstar.local (elstar.jacobs.jacobs-university.de [10.50.231.133]) by hermes.jacobs-university.de (Postfix) with ESMTP id 53591200A8; Mon, 17 Jul 2017 13:23:24 +0200 (CEST) Received: by elstar.local (Postfix, from userid 501) id 25CC93FF16C1; Mon, 17 Jul 2017 13:23:23 +0200 (CEST) Date: Mon, 17 Jul 2017 13:23:23 +0200 From: Juergen Schoenwaelder To: Balazs Lengyel Cc: "netmod@ietf.org" Message-ID: <20170717112322.GA16862@elstar.local> Reply-To: Juergen Schoenwaelder Mail-Followup-To: Balazs Lengyel , "netmod@ietf.org" References: <240cfaf5-d752-5a11-2917-c1373a38470f@ericsson.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <240cfaf5-d752-5a11-2917-c1373a38470f@ericsson.com> User-Agent: Mutt/1.6.0 (2016-04-01) Archived-At: Subject: Re: [netmod] [NETMOD] NMDA comments X-BeenThere: netmod@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 Precedence: list List-Id: NETMOD WG list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 17 Jul 2017 11:23:29 -0000 I am only responding to the NETMOD specific comments. On Mon, Jul 17, 2017 at 12:38:27PM +0200, Balazs Lengyel wrote: > Hello, > > Some comments to the NMDA drafts: > > General: It should be more clearly describe how legacy devices that do not > wish to support NMDA should behave. They still need part of the operational > datastore, but might not (will probably not) have a separate operational > state for configuration from running/intended. Shall they just present the > running configuration as part of operational? If the of a device _always_ equals , then reporting as is obviously correct. If and are only _mostly_ the same, well then customers will tell you at the end whether they want the differences to be visible. Note that a single say IP address list in may have entries from but also from other sources (e.g., IP addresses learned from DHCP or IP addresses generated by the system in addition to configured IP addresses). Focus on what is operationally used by a device when implementing and the question where this data is originating from should be a second thought. > draft-ietf-netmod-revised-datastores-03 > ------------------------------------------- > 4.1, 4.3) "If a device does not have a distinct and non-volatile > is > available, the device will typically use that non-volatile storage to > allow to persist across reboots." > > It has been a long standing problem for us that we don't prescribe how and > when the device persists configuration. "Typically" is a very week word I > would like to see a SHOULD or better a MUST. Our protocols are not very clear about this and we decided to live with this vagueness since we felt it is outside of the scope of our task to change/update protocols semantics. > draft-dsdt-nmda-guidelines-01 > ------------------------------------------- > I would love to see a plan for updating existing models. Our priorities > being ietf-system, ietf-interfaces > > Page 8) "(c) For published models, the model should be republished with an > NMDA-compatible structure, deprecating non-NMDA constructs." > > RFC7950 is very vague about what deprecated means (IMHO this is a problem in > the RFC). > "deprecated" indicates an obsolete definition, but it permits new/continued > implementation" > This does mean the fully functional implementation MUST still be in place, > it allows a node to remove it. > If we allow a node to remove e.g. /interfaces-state that is a problem. > > What do we really mean in this case? We better state it explicitly. The plan I think is to revise the core modules as soon as we get to it. Not sure what you mean with 'node' above. Deprecated means that there is a new definition that should be implemented/used but the old definition has been kept to allow for a smooth transition. /js -- Juergen Schoenwaelder Jacobs University Bremen gGmbH Phone: +49 421 200 3587 Campus Ring 1 | 28759 Bremen | Germany Fax: +49 421 200 3103 From nobody Mon Jul 17 05:06:46 2017 Return-Path: X-Original-To: netmod@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: netmod@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2A73B12EC46 for ; Mon, 17 Jul 2017 05:06:45 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -14.502 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-14.502 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_HI=-5, RP_MATCHES_RCVD=-0.001, SPF_HELO_PASS=-0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, USER_IN_DEF_DKIM_WL=-7.5] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (1024-bit key) header.d=cisco.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id sBqLzU1p5jeG for ; Mon, 17 Jul 2017 05:06:44 -0700 (PDT) Received: from aer-iport-2.cisco.com (aer-iport-2.cisco.com [173.38.203.52]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher DHE-RSA-SEED-SHA (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 7A5C2126B6D for ; Mon, 17 Jul 2017 05:06:43 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/simple; d=cisco.com; i=@cisco.com; l=5963; q=dns/txt; s=iport; t=1500293203; x=1501502803; h=to:from:subject:message-id:date:mime-version; bh=mqdiq49ql/GVXO+i0dIittGfj2qdzCeri6KYcTkhd6s=; b=QBEoiHjGYtYsQoFYhjJJEK7m1IXUpq2Q7zTAf79TsNczirYwPQheHZXn cCueoe1hR2MdwvHD7aKishrm7Mxxk9DoqIKTZ7dcmN/DvUpZFYUeXlKwP pApyESXfURly3KSGEJF5/byU81n1M+nV0uXNgwGWwdTHxqhfPywUEI+Sh c=; X-IronPort-Anti-Spam-Filtered: true X-IronPort-Anti-Spam-Result: =?us-ascii?q?A0BzAQD4p2xZ/xbLJq1cHAEBBAEBCgEBg?= =?us-ascii?q?m+QbnOhRIUsghGKABgBAgEBAQEBAQFrHQuFQoEzAl8NCAEBiiuvP4ImJ4ptAQE?= =?us-ascii?q?IAgElgyiDTYIMinaCYQWfNJQWiy6HAYx6iF0fOD9LMSEIGxWHYT6JQgEBAQ?= X-IronPort-AV: E=Sophos;i="5.40,374,1496102400"; d="scan'208,217";a="653299166" Received: from aer-iport-nat.cisco.com (HELO aer-core-2.cisco.com) ([173.38.203.22]) by aer-iport-2.cisco.com with ESMTP/TLS/DHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384; 17 Jul 2017 12:06:38 +0000 Received: from [10.61.70.137] (ams3-vpn-dhcp1673.cisco.com [10.61.70.137]) by aer-core-2.cisco.com (8.14.5/8.14.5) with ESMTP id v6HC6cIf027826 for ; Mon, 17 Jul 2017 12:06:38 GMT To: "netmod@ietf.org" From: Robert Wilton Message-ID: Date: Mon, 17 Jul 2017 14:06:37 +0200 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 10.0; WOW64; rv:52.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/52.2.1 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="------------1FD6B1D6B958CDC5FE1BB238" Content-Language: en-US Archived-At: Subject: [netmod] draft-wilton-netmod-interface-properties-00 X-BeenThere: netmod@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 Precedence: list List-Id: NETMOD WG list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 17 Jul 2017 12:06:45 -0000 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --------------1FD6B1D6B958CDC5FE1BB238 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hi, In the NETMOD session on Wednesday I will spend 5 minutes speaking on draft-wilton-netmod-interface-properties-00, that has been created due to discussions with various folks to handle interface type specific configuration. The draft isn't particularly long, 21 pages, two thirds of that is just examples, and it is presenting a simple idea. In particular, it is aiming at solving the problem of when statements like this: augment "/if:interfaces/if:interface" { when "derived-from-or-self(if:type, 'ianaift:ethernetCsmacd') or derived-from-or-self(if:type, 'ianaift:ieee8023adLag') or derived-from-or-self(if:type, 'ianaift:l2vlan') or derived-from-or-self(if:type, 'ianaift:ifPwType')" { description "Applies to all Ethernet-like interfaces"; } and instead proposes this: augment "/if:interfaces/if:interface" { when "derived-from(if:type, 'ianaifp:ethernet-like')" { description "Applies to all interfaces that derive from the Ethernet-like interface property."; } The core idea being that new identities are defined to represent interface properties (like ethernet-like) and the existing interface types iana-if-types.yang are updated to also derive from the new interface properties. This simplifies the YANG, should make interface based configuration more future proof, since new interface types can also derive from the appropriate interface properties. Of course additional interface properties could also be defined. I'm seeking input from the WG as to whether they like this approach, AND also whether the WG drafts: draft-ietf-netmod-intf-ext-yang-05 and draft-ietf-netmod-sub-intf-vlan-model-02 should be updated to make use of this approach (possibly in a future bis revision to avoid delaying publishing the models). Thanks, Rob --------------1FD6B1D6B958CDC5FE1BB238 Content-Type: text/html; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit

Hi,

In the NETMOD session on Wednesday I will spend 5 minutes speaking on draft-wilton-netmod-interface-properties-00, that has been created due to discussions with various folks to handle interface type specific configuration.

The draft isn't particularly long, 21 pages, two thirds of that is just examples, and it is presenting a simple idea.

In particular, it is aiming at solving the problem of when statements like this:

     augment "/if:interfaces/if:interface" {
       when "derived-from-or-self(if:type, 'ianaift:ethernetCsmacd') or
             derived-from-or-self(if:type, 'ianaift:ieee8023adLag') or
             derived-from-or-self(if:type, 'ianaift:l2vlan') or
             derived-from-or-self(if:type, 'ianaift:ifPwType')" {
         description "Applies to all Ethernet-like interfaces";
       }

and instead proposes this:

    augment "/if:interfaces/if:interface" {
      when "derived-from(if:type, 'ianaifp:ethernet-like')" {
        description
          "Applies to all interfaces that derive from the Ethernet-like
           interface property.";
      }

The core idea being that new identities are defined to represent interface properties (like ethernet-like) and the existing interface types iana-if-types.yang are updated to also derive from the new interface properties.

This simplifies the YANG, should make interface based configuration more future proof, since new interface types can also derive from the appropriate interface properties.  Of course additional interface properties could also be defined.

I'm seeking input from the WG as to whether they like this approach, AND also whether the WG drafts: draft-ietf-netmod-intf-ext-yang-05 and draft-ietf-netmod-sub-intf-vlan-model-02 should be updated to make use of this approach (possibly in a future bis revision to avoid delaying publishing the models).

Thanks,
Rob

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My problem is that https://tools.ietf.org/html/rfc7950#section-7.21.2 does not say for a deprecated schema part "the old
definition has been kept" as you say.  It only says for deprecated "it permits new/continued
implementation". The word "permit" only allows keeping the deprecated schema parts, it does not mandate, does not even encourage the implementer to keep the deprecated part.
regards Balazs
(BY node I meant network node a.k.a. netconf sever. Sorry my sloppy wording.)

On 2017-07-17 13:23, Juergen Schoenwaelder wrote:
Page 8) "(c) For published models, the model should be republished with an
   NMDA-compatible structure, deprecating non-NMDA constructs."

RFC7950 is very vague about what deprecated means (IMHO this is a problem in
the RFC).
"deprecated" indicates an obsolete definition, but it permits new/continued
implementation"
This does mean the fully functional implementation MUST still be in place,
it allows a node to remove it.
If we allow a node to remove e.g. /interfaces-state that is a problem.

What do we really mean in this case? We better state it explicitly.

The plan I think is to revise the core modules as soon as we get to it.

Not sure what you mean with 'node' above. Deprecated means that there
is a new definition that should be implemented/used but the old
definition has been kept to allow for a smooth transition.

/js

-- 
Balazs Lengyel                       Ericsson Hungary Ltd.
Senior Specialist
Mobile: +36-70-330-7909              email: Balazs.Lengyel@ericsson.com
From nobody Mon Jul 17 07:16:27 2017 Return-Path: X-Original-To: netmod@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: netmod@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id D1286131C04 for ; Mon, 17 Jul 2017 07:16:23 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.699 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.699 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW=-0.7, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=gmail.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id se--T-7Iuyu7 for ; Mon, 17 Jul 2017 07:16:22 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail-qk0-x236.google.com (mail-qk0-x236.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:400d:c09::236]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id BF4EC131BF9 for ; Mon, 17 Jul 2017 07:16:18 -0700 (PDT) Received: by mail-qk0-x236.google.com with SMTP id p73so57977151qka.2 for ; Mon, 17 Jul 2017 07:16:18 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20161025; h=mime-version:from:date:message-id:subject:to; bh=V/D2mojOdWGFOyKpjzrJp6bcIGcEVxL64eaZ39vwn0A=; b=HasrKGQf7ndgEJCsGtFRuGBSk7r6DsC2OmrJVUCXcnMXSV2KyAXLhiE0vLZZHTb31/ 6oFWi8oneS9qWA8ms75cn4+1hwtrXxPkYlv5X5lxKljKZFdrBpVNt+YLrvt7mYxlRKJM SmiRBkex/OBJvqHzseDAn/QVps4GANkbg+R3KYqRnBpO75hMWgyyd9nyzzDOpgFjIWFf 4coiPO+i3wCRwwm/JCiManbc5P1/r/QrnV2LRSEjVVH/Dzns+NpxVJf0hoqTPnsyhlt5 BfgwF3D7/DKD6lZen3Vd83YfNQSGVTGGl3GwYcS5/sJWzYwxGz205CyTQRmwiIWV49wK cyDQ== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:from:date:message-id:subject:to; bh=V/D2mojOdWGFOyKpjzrJp6bcIGcEVxL64eaZ39vwn0A=; b=I7OlAcwH0UKztmFXcXLuK++okYWFt1Q0BwEczuZZAisC33puhNIaCtSD/x7xghoEdr KonYN6dAilKdDQH3KXY4nsDUESYJdvC7md37fkZrFwVDBqj0m1wpKd0O5qJdqAI4G3a5 ptszv3xIGdFuehu+81S6ifablzJK4fk16eky60gAPtaAjQb6ilIe/ga5jrpf3Y88SJaB lFyVirfHOifp8zO8UujpZhUiBKRujXsGAJnkvazJENRBkb0zE1GJJy5iyA3SPiXncclO pvHj2ago8XLyF+aDNjTa7QdviNx+s8yUfRO8mpkR50To1XkJZhSqKl4IQK+TtCI0jF69 qhWw== X-Gm-Message-State: AIVw113frF1ufosKsmYdCe0yOVxFNmg/C0b8ygPJROredIHeqlEgODlx ebswvSOjchgwyHJPa9DY458as5qzJOYz X-Received: by 10.55.188.69 with SMTP id m66mr27907826qkf.63.1500300977499; Mon, 17 Jul 2017 07:16:17 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.140.108.67 with HTTP; Mon, 17 Jul 2017 07:16:16 -0700 (PDT) From: Dan Romascanu Date: Mon, 17 Jul 2017 16:16:16 +0200 Message-ID: To: netmod@ietf.org Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="94eb2c04315ad219810554840acd" Archived-At: Subject: [netmod] why is the alarm YANG work being done in CCAMP? X-BeenThere: netmod@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 Precedence: list List-Id: NETMOD WG list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 17 Jul 2017 14:16:24 -0000 --94eb2c04315ad219810554840acd Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Hi, I am sorry if I am late to observing this. Please feel free to bash me and point to where this discussion already took place. I just heard in the NETMOD WG meeting that draft-vallin-netmod-alarm-module is going to be undertaken by the CCAMP WG. What is the reason? The problem space of Alarm management data model seems IMO pretty generic, and on the other side I cannot see what is CCAMP-ish or even RTG Area specific in this work. Thanks and Regards, Dan (one of the authors of RFC 3877) --94eb2c04315ad219810554840acd Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Hi,

I am sorry if I am la= te to observing this. Please feel free to bash me and point to where this d= iscussion already took place. I just heard in the NETMOD WG meeting that dr= aft-vallin-netmod-alarm-module is going to be undertaken by the CCAMP WG. W= hat is the reason? The problem space of Alarm management data model seems I= MO pretty generic, and on the other side I cannot see what is CCAMP-ish or = even RTG Area specific in this work.

Thanks and Regards,
<= br>
Dan
(one of the authors of RFC 3877)
--94eb2c04315ad219810554840acd-- From nobody Mon Jul 17 07:21:38 2017 Return-Path: X-Original-To: netmod@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: netmod@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 22E23131BE7 for ; Mon, 17 Jul 2017 07:21:37 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.9 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.9 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, RP_MATCHES_RCVD=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id oUYZaM1XEYcC for ; Mon, 17 Jul 2017 07:21:35 -0700 (PDT) Received: from atlas5.jacobs-university.de (atlas5.jacobs-university.de [212.201.44.20]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher AECDH-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 04B33131BDE for ; Mon, 17 Jul 2017 07:21:35 -0700 (PDT) Received: from localhost (demetrius5.irc-it.jacobs-university.de [10.70.0.222]) by atlas5.jacobs-university.de (Postfix) with ESMTP id CCF3BF4B; Mon, 17 Jul 2017 16:21:33 +0200 (CEST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at jacobs-university.de Received: from atlas5.jacobs-university.de ([10.70.0.217]) by localhost (demetrius5.jacobs-university.de [10.70.0.222]) (amavisd-new, port 10032) with ESMTP id s5yT-26tX0WP; Mon, 17 Jul 2017 16:21:32 +0200 (CEST) Received: from hermes.jacobs-university.de (hermes.jacobs-university.de [212.201.44.23]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (Client CN "hermes.jacobs-university.de", Issuer "Jacobs University CA - G01" (verified OK)) by atlas5.jacobs-university.de (Postfix) with ESMTPS; Mon, 17 Jul 2017 16:21:33 +0200 (CEST) Received: from localhost (demetrius3.jacobs-university.de [212.201.44.48]) by hermes.jacobs-university.de (Postfix) with ESMTP id A0EE8200A8; Mon, 17 Jul 2017 16:21:33 +0200 (CEST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at jacobs-university.de Received: from hermes.jacobs-university.de ([212.201.44.23]) by localhost (demetrius3.jacobs-university.de [212.201.44.32]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id Na8uS0ZzIOJY; Mon, 17 Jul 2017 16:21:33 +0200 (CEST) Received: from elstar.local (elstar.jacobs.jacobs-university.de [10.50.231.133]) by hermes.jacobs-university.de (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1C73A200A7; Mon, 17 Jul 2017 16:21:33 +0200 (CEST) Received: by elstar.local (Postfix, from userid 501) id E4B943FF1FDD; Mon, 17 Jul 2017 16:21:32 +0200 (CEST) Date: Mon, 17 Jul 2017 16:21:32 +0200 From: Juergen Schoenwaelder To: Balazs Lengyel Cc: "netmod@ietf.org" Message-ID: <20170717142132.GA17340@elstar.local> Reply-To: Juergen Schoenwaelder Mail-Followup-To: Balazs Lengyel , "netmod@ietf.org" References: <240cfaf5-d752-5a11-2917-c1373a38470f@ericsson.com> <20170717112322.GA16862@elstar.local> <3c34cfeb-b526-c878-ad3f-59deb707257c@ericsson.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <3c34cfeb-b526-c878-ad3f-59deb707257c@ericsson.com> User-Agent: Mutt/1.6.0 (2016-04-01) Archived-At: Subject: Re: [netmod] [NETMOD] NMDA comments - deprecating items X-BeenThere: netmod@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 Precedence: list List-Id: NETMOD WG list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 17 Jul 2017 14:21:37 -0000 Balazs, the wording originates from SMIv2, more specifically [RFC 2578] section 6.1: While the value "deprecated" also indicates an obsolete definition, it permits new/continued implementation in order to foster interoperability with older/existing implementations. Yes, deprecated does not imply that these definitions must be implemented, and this may seem bad since this means you can't rely on them being present. The IETF is not republishing modules to 'just' change the status of definitions and hence in reality something marked deprecated may stay deprecated forever but new implementations may at some point in time not implement deprecated definitions anymore. In an ideal world, the IETF would have more agile processes for maintaining and updating artefacts such data models but also this a 20 year old discussion (back then in the context of MIB modules). /js On Mon, Jul 17, 2017 at 03:36:26PM +0200, Balazs Lengyel wrote: > My problem is that [1]https://tools.ietf.org/html/rfc7950#section-7.21.2 does not say for a deprecated schema part "the old > definition has been kept" as you say. It only says for deprecated "it permits new/continued > implementation". The word "permit" only allows keeping the deprecated schema parts, it does not mandate, does not even encourage the implementer to keep the deprecated part. > regards Balazs > (BY node I meant network node a.k.a. netconf sever. Sorry my sloppy wording.) > > On 2017-07-17 13:23, Juergen Schoenwaelder wrote: > > Page 8) "(c) For published models, the model should be republished with an > NMDA-compatible structure, deprecating non-NMDA constructs." > > RFC7950 is very vague about what deprecated means (IMHO this is a problem in > the RFC). > "deprecated" indicates an obsolete definition, but it permits new/continued > implementation" > This does mean the fully functional implementation MUST still be in place, > it allows a node to remove it. > If we allow a node to remove e.g. /interfaces-state that is a problem. > > What do we really mean in this case? We better state it explicitly. > > The plan I think is to revise the core modules as soon as we get to it. > > Not sure what you mean with 'node' above. Deprecated means that there > is a new definition that should be implemented/used but the old > definition has been kept to allow for a smooth transition. > > /js > > -- > Balazs Lengyel Ericsson Hungary Ltd. > Senior Specialist > Mobile: +36-70-330-7909 email: [2]Balazs.Lengyel@ericsson.com > > References > > Visible links > 1. https://tools.ietf.org/html/rfc7950#section-7.21.2 > 2. mailto:Balazs.Lengyel@ericsson.com > _______________________________________________ > netmod mailing list > netmod@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/netmod -- Juergen Schoenwaelder Jacobs University Bremen gGmbH Phone: +49 421 200 3587 Campus Ring 1 | 28759 Bremen | Germany Fax: +49 421 200 3103 From nobody Mon Jul 17 07:22:19 2017 Return-Path: X-Original-To: netmod@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: netmod@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 83927131BDE for ; Mon, 17 Jul 2017 07:22:16 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -3.386 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-3.386 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, MIME_HTML_ONLY=0.723, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-2.3, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_H3=-0.01, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_WL=-0.01, SPF_PASS=-0.001, T_DKIM_INVALID=0.01, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); 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a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=ericsson.onmicrosoft.com; s=selector1-ericsson-com; h=From:Date:Subject:Message-ID:Content-Type:MIME-Version; bh=8CoV+FMW95Wwfj6i28X1UJkj2sgnsSBZVAamdbrl5Lc=; b=KpLNVMp6jykrC8ZDw/UlzMzS0hV7Pe9GAjGhbqIOTAidRgNqvUwh8TzcdnwvOR6ZB6YRmPcda1B41WgmZJmQCpKCFiQK1lajddUbPpqvbVP7Wgve8YS2+RxvXbgvq45XqL8X10BdcQCyq4wrtNWHJ7e30vtLo2WqhZnQXo0Syrk= Authentication-Results: ietf.org; dkim=none (message not signed) header.d=none;ietf.org; dmarc=none action=none header.from=ericsson.com; Received: from [100.94.38.11] (192.176.1.91) by VI1PR07MB0959.eurprd07.prod.outlook.com (2a01:111:e400:5094::23) with Microsoft SMTP Server (version=TLS1_2, cipher=TLS_ECDHE_RSA_WITH_AES_128_CBC_SHA256_P256) id 15.1.1282.4; Mon, 17 Jul 2017 14:22:09 +0000 To: "netmod@ietf.org" From: Balazs Lengyel Message-ID: <502528f4-d565-481f-343f-1c4db01e6ebe@ericsson.com> Date: Mon, 17 Jul 2017 16:22:05 +0200 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 6.1; WOW64; rv:45.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/45.8.0 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/html; 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Hello,

I just want to mention, that the system itself might add data to the running datastore as well. It might be data that needs to be validated.  We often use it to indicate capabilities of he node,  and later refer to it from some other parts of the configuration. E.g.

container capabilities {

    leaf-list supported-compression-types {

        type identityref {…}

        description "Indicates which compression

             types are supported by the system for

             report files.";


}


list transfer-job {

    …

    leaf compression-type {

        config true;

        type leafref {

            path "../../-capabilities/supported-compression-types";

        } 

        description "Indicates file compression type to be applied to

            the report file. ";


regards Balazs




-- 
Balazs Lengyel                       Ericsson Hungary Ltd.
Senior Specialist
Mobile: +36-70-330-7909              email: Balazs.Lengyel@ericsson.com
From nobody Mon Jul 17 07:45:02 2017 Return-Path: X-Original-To: netmod@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: netmod@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 117D5131C34 for ; Mon, 17 Jul 2017 07:44:58 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -4.7 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-4.7 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_H2=-2.8, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (768-bit key) header.d=labn.net Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 8ZRI_EN79h9N for ; Mon, 17 Jul 2017 07:44:53 -0700 (PDT) Received: from gproxy7.mail.unifiedlayer.com (gproxy7-pub.mail.unifiedlayer.com [70.40.196.235]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 14F48131C38 for ; Mon, 17 Jul 2017 07:44:53 -0700 (PDT) Received: from cmgw2 (unknown [10.0.90.83]) by gproxy7.mail.unifiedlayer.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3ED8B2175E2 for ; Mon, 17 Jul 2017 08:18:54 -0600 (MDT) Received: from box313.bluehost.com ([69.89.31.113]) by cmgw2 with id lqJr1v00L2SSUrH01qJu6X; Mon, 17 Jul 2017 08:18:54 -0600 X-Authority-Analysis: v=2.2 cv=UvYTD64B c=1 sm=1 tr=0 a=h1BC+oY+fLhyFmnTBx92Jg==:117 a=h1BC+oY+fLhyFmnTBx92Jg==:17 a=IkcTkHD0fZMA:10 a=xqWC_Br6kY4A:10 a=G3gG6ho9WtcA:10 a=48vgC7mUAAAA:8 a=UWghcfJ8v7P99ss9dMIA:9 a=QEXdDO2ut3YA:10 a=w1C3t2QeGrPiZgrLijVG:22 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; q=dns/txt; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=labn.net; s=default; h=Content-Transfer-Encoding:Content-Type:In-Reply-To:MIME-Version :Date:Message-ID:From:References:To:Subject:Sender:Reply-To:Cc:Content-ID: Content-Description:Resent-Date:Resent-From:Resent-Sender:Resent-To:Resent-Cc :Resent-Message-ID:List-Id:List-Help:List-Unsubscribe:List-Subscribe: List-Post:List-Owner:List-Archive; bh=WunKK7qy50ejoeyL1DGtaeJ4wdgHg/CbkT5sr7IckLo=; b=FGCfx7NKJVfvVqe0tC/n3vHxPG JyO4gUOvnDaZmYhFsQaG5jEue9jtfTyY75oYFUepX3xUSj/+Uy7e7jCsKpGcDaHY5avBG5qbVjVo0 VdrRYiLzNl+jjBUD7a6E6I7ld; Received: from pool-100-15-84-20.washdc.fios.verizon.net ([100.15.84.20]:54496 helo=[IPv6:::1]) by box313.bluehost.com with esmtpsa (TLSv1.2:ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256:128) (Exim 4.87) (envelope-from ) id 1dX6rK-003diH-V4 for netmod@ietf.org; Mon, 17 Jul 2017 08:18:51 -0600 To: "netmod@ietf.org" References: <1D830FD0-547F-4F5D-A169-B05A8DC013B3@juniper.net> From: Lou Berger Message-ID: <972a1bde-6316-1b9b-e032-5be7ca53fa3f@labn.net> Date: Mon, 17 Jul 2017 16:18:47 +0200 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 10.0; WOW64; rv:52.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/52.2.1 MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: <1D830FD0-547F-4F5D-A169-B05A8DC013B3@juniper.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Language: en-US X-AntiAbuse: This header was added to track abuse, please include it with any abuse report X-AntiAbuse: Primary Hostname - box313.bluehost.com X-AntiAbuse: Original Domain - ietf.org X-AntiAbuse: Originator/Caller UID/GID - [47 12] / [47 12] X-AntiAbuse: Sender Address Domain - labn.net X-BWhitelist: no X-Source-IP: 100.15.84.20 X-Exim-ID: 1dX6rK-003diH-V4 X-Source: X-Source-Args: X-Source-Dir: X-Source-Sender: pool-100-15-84-20.washdc.fios.verizon.net ([IPv6:::1]) [100.15.84.20]:54496 X-Source-Auth: lberger@labn.net X-Email-Count: 1 X-Source-Cap: bGFibm1vYmk7bGFibm1vYmk7Ym94MzEzLmJsdWVob3N0LmNvbQ== Archived-At: Subject: Re: [netmod] WG Last Call for draft-ietf-netmod-acl-model-11 X-BeenThere: netmod@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 Precedence: list List-Id: NETMOD WG list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 17 Jul 2017 14:44:58 -0000 All, Per our discussion in today's session, another version of this draft is needed to address open issues. As this revision will include technical changes, another LC will be needed after that version is published. Please do comment on this version, but be aware this version will *not* be submitted for publication. Kent and Lou On 7/7/2017 8:34 PM, Kent Watsen wrote: > > This is a notice to start a three week NETMOD WG last call for the > document: > > Network Access Control List (ACL) YANG Data Model > https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-netmod-acl-model-11 > > Note: Three weeks is more than needed, especially given this > draft has been through Last Call before, but we understand > folks are busy these days. > > Please indicate your support or concerns by Friday, July 28, 2017. > > We are particularly interested in statements of the form: > * I have reviewed this draft and found no issues. > * I have reviewed this draft and found the following issues: ... > > As well as: > * I have implemented the data model in this draft. > * I am implementing the data model in this draft. > * I am considering to implement the data model in this draft. > * I am not considering to implement the data model in this draft. > > Thank you, > NETMOD WG Chairs > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > netmod mailing list > netmod@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/netmod > From nobody Mon Jul 17 07:56:43 2017 Return-Path: X-Original-To: netmod@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: netmod@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id C221D131C37 for ; 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Mon, 17 Jul 2017 16:56:38 +0200 (CEST) Received: from EUR01-HE1-obe.outbound.protection.outlook.com (153.88.183.145) by oa.msg.ericsson.com (153.88.183.72) with Microsoft SMTP Server (TLS) id 14.3.352.0; Mon, 17 Jul 2017 16:56:35 +0200 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=ericsson.onmicrosoft.com; s=selector1-ericsson-com; h=From:Date:Subject:Message-ID:Content-Type:MIME-Version; bh=Q5icztXp2G9DSFMCCd/UcJVV0N2WC8HXX91Us0UqoJk=; b=e1QvcbrHN3A+T1tMFiWt0WBo91OdibP5iZpbCFMU3L+Ud4dMijlBg75CPzRzz9d65LJTjfDiW1bywX20Q7aPcMm9zLlCSz4UiE7o3hQg4bS8JNZNcO1pWhMIFW1j3nDxVOEB2bMRdZePfTSAWUvKFiwSyQWRZNbRonulDTB+DuI= Authentication-Results: ietf.org; dkim=none (message not signed) header.d=none;ietf.org; dmarc=none action=none header.from=ericsson.com; Received: from [100.94.38.11] (192.176.1.91) by AM2PR07MB0945.eurprd07.prod.outlook.com (2a01:111:e400:8445::12) with Microsoft SMTP Server (version=TLS1_2, cipher=TLS_ECDHE_RSA_WITH_AES_128_CBC_SHA256_P256) id 15.1.1261.4; Mon, 17 Jul 2017 14:56:33 +0000 To: "netmod@ietf.org" From: Balazs Lengyel Message-ID: <1622d833-2a05-081a-4104-0cfbd067b7be@ericsson.com> Date: Mon, 17 Jul 2017 16:56:29 +0200 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 6.1; 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X-BeenThere: netmod@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 Precedence: list List-Id: NETMOD WG list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 17 Jul 2017 14:56:42 -0000 Hello, Is it possible not to support operational datastore? (Support for ietf-yang-library is mandatory) If I indicate support for operational does it just mean I support get-data on operational, or does it also mean that I have to indicate any differences between running and operational data-state? If I never-ever have differences between running and operational (for config=true data) can I still claim support for operational datastore? Some text around this would be good. regards Balazs -- Balazs Lengyel Ericsson Hungary Ltd. Senior Specialist Mobile: +36-70-330-7909 email: Balazs.Lengyel@ericsson.com From nobody Mon Jul 17 08:05:10 2017 Return-Path: X-Original-To: netmod@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: netmod@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id BE462131C61 for ; Mon, 17 Jul 2017 08:05:08 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=gmail.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id xJCK5alz6F5D for ; Mon, 17 Jul 2017 08:05:01 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail-pg0-x233.google.com (mail-pg0-x233.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:400e:c05::233]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 78C59130019 for ; Mon, 17 Jul 2017 08:04:54 -0700 (PDT) Received: by mail-pg0-x233.google.com with SMTP id u5so18736478pgq.3 for ; Mon, 17 Jul 2017 08:04:54 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20161025; h=from:content-transfer-encoding:subject:message-id:date:to :mime-version; bh=mItGYv70/KpLHzzjA7khsPdKsEQZBl6ebagfxz5ctwA=; b=nVaS50hf1RlHbaxF1r4865N8nyBxQGgx62t/ZvvXuKFSotRWaf2Mbd2pXifsS6tVgo yVtdvS7p/9UcoFcdy/Mb+T7MsTu/cwPlkR3aAFH0FMVvuVBwqapDyoEISb7H+N+B6I+1 8NFLmbu+FEoVQFjh1+iGlJpd6zZ2dZDqkbT83VcaDRB9p7vieSSpMJzfIQ4rSNvh7aJy FS+wy519QpHF7R+kUm/yqeOqe1uq6WRSxXMccx1V07o1oI+VrlVq+mT4H1yO4IIqjgO1 lNtfPnJoFbKvGt141AfSp0VS4aSTmhBXIrw+d2CJ/7hhbJkye3j97IC0KKDED0BiAbyb +1MQ== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:from:content-transfer-encoding:subject :message-id:date:to:mime-version; bh=mItGYv70/KpLHzzjA7khsPdKsEQZBl6ebagfxz5ctwA=; b=G8AQvtFrygQ1JR35FjE/9BIlYgZaqd2zbyjNNzljyrplbaB+BaHHj6Yo9mn+Y3SUTa FaXsA3/aWzvZ+uB3X2ozyRkyLPuAvz1OQ06U0V9E0MSFAs5WWr62zYVhYKzoaIJ2NGsM HCACV0Y0gfrQYhSOb/wBZhjLaUSBZ0ji/eQ7NQLlItrtI34hjk1SqTU3KHFw2bc2AqpU dA9q16nF1dhOnQ5ANEtuUekQ/REPhOPkNfYeTuvbF/EpK5M/1ZJzDWF62ZD8aQrZUmD8 aMuRbh50tgu8u3FR2aJ8sU8ePbGLEPv2UgcwBOXEkmeLnDPFEPAbrls6V7EvrPUCh1gZ HrYg== X-Gm-Message-State: AIVw112tbH5ag5OQlhnqCf3HZBLPQl5I9Jd7ozQCGCxSikzb/UJPMhS5 oagDefSIBRCDJufYm0c= X-Received: by 10.84.210.205 with SMTP id a71mr8168831pli.201.1500303893897; Mon, 17 Jul 2017 08:04:53 -0700 (PDT) Received: from [10.24.20.224] ([128.107.241.182]) by smtp.gmail.com with ESMTPSA id l9sm9732479pfg.92.2017.07.17.08.04.52 for (version=TLS1 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-AES128-SHA bits=128/128); Mon, 17 Jul 2017 08:04:53 -0700 (PDT) From: Mahesh Jethanandani Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Message-Id: <2638EC2A-E12B-41EF-A4F7-713E5EFC1955@gmail.com> Date: Mon, 17 Jul 2017 17:04:56 +0200 To: NetMod WG Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 9.3 \(3124\)) X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.3124) Archived-At: Subject: [netmod] draft-ietf-netmod-acl-model-11 defines 'any' rule as a presence container X-BeenThere: netmod@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 Precedence: list List-Id: NETMOD WG list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 17 Jul 2017 15:05:09 -0000 The ACL draft (-11 version) defines the =E2=80=98any=E2=80=99 rule as a = presence container as catch-all rule for customers that want to set an = action in case the packet does not match any of the other rules. Unless = there is an objection to this solution, we will close the issue with the = suggested solution. Mahesh Jethanandani mjethanandani@gmail.com From nobody Mon Jul 17 08:11:55 2017 Return-Path: X-Original-To: netmod@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: netmod@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 742B7131C3C for ; Mon, 17 Jul 2017 08:11:52 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.9 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.9 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, RP_MATCHES_RCVD=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id Wui7bKwKS5oN for ; Mon, 17 Jul 2017 08:11:50 -0700 (PDT) Received: from atlas5.jacobs-university.de (atlas5.jacobs-university.de [212.201.44.20]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher AECDH-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 4C6AF126D73 for ; Mon, 17 Jul 2017 08:11:50 -0700 (PDT) Received: from localhost (demetrius5.irc-it.jacobs-university.de [10.70.0.222]) by atlas5.jacobs-university.de (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1760799 for ; Mon, 17 Jul 2017 17:11:49 +0200 (CEST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at jacobs-university.de Received: from atlas5.jacobs-university.de ([10.70.0.217]) by localhost (demetrius5.jacobs-university.de [10.70.0.222]) (amavisd-new, port 10032) with ESMTP id Jbki85I7Ijw6 for ; Mon, 17 Jul 2017 17:11:47 +0200 (CEST) Received: from hermes.jacobs-university.de (hermes.jacobs-university.de [212.201.44.23]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (Client CN "hermes.jacobs-university.de", Issuer "Jacobs University CA - G01" (verified OK)) by atlas5.jacobs-university.de (Postfix) with ESMTPS for ; Mon, 17 Jul 2017 17:11:48 +0200 (CEST) Received: from localhost (demetrius4.jacobs-university.de [212.201.44.49]) by hermes.jacobs-university.de (Postfix) with ESMTP id C3E81200A8 for ; Mon, 17 Jul 2017 17:11:48 +0200 (CEST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at jacobs-university.de Received: from hermes.jacobs-university.de ([212.201.44.23]) by localhost (demetrius4.jacobs-university.de [212.201.44.32]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 8uUPazg7c2h3; Mon, 17 Jul 2017 17:11:48 +0200 (CEST) Received: from elstar.local (elstar.jacobs.jacobs-university.de [10.50.231.133]) by hermes.jacobs-university.de (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6D50A200A7; Mon, 17 Jul 2017 17:11:48 +0200 (CEST) Received: by elstar.local (Postfix, from userid 501) id 37D673FF21D0; Mon, 17 Jul 2017 17:11:48 +0200 (CEST) Date: Mon, 17 Jul 2017 17:11:48 +0200 From: Juergen Schoenwaelder To: "netmod@ietf.org" Message-ID: <20170717151148.GB17340@elstar.local> Reply-To: Juergen Schoenwaelder Mail-Followup-To: "netmod@ietf.org" References: <1D830FD0-547F-4F5D-A169-B05A8DC013B3@juniper.net> <972a1bde-6316-1b9b-e032-5be7ca53fa3f@labn.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <972a1bde-6316-1b9b-e032-5be7ca53fa3f@labn.net> User-Agent: Mutt/1.6.0 (2016-04-01) Archived-At: Subject: Re: [netmod] WG Last Call for draft-ietf-netmod-acl-model-11 X-BeenThere: netmod@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 Precedence: list List-Id: NETMOD WG list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 17 Jul 2017 15:11:52 -0000 On Mon, Jul 17, 2017 at 04:18:47PM +0200, Lou Berger wrote: > All, > > Per our discussion in today's session, another version of this draft > is needed to address open issues. As this revision will include > technical changes, another LC will be needed after that version is > published. > > Please do comment on this version, but be aware this version will *not* > be submitted for publication. > I planned to review this I-D but I will now wait for the next version. ;-) However, a few things I already noted: - The identifiers are long, I think this was discussed before. I suggest to replace 'source' with 'src' and 'destination' with 'dst'; this will likely also make the tree diagram fit the traditional RFC format again. I am not sure about the idea to spell out all the mixed-x-y-z combinations. This may turn out costly to maintain long term. The naming is also inconsistent I think. My understanding is that mixed-l2-l3-ipv4-acl really means mixed-eth-ipv4-acl. In fact, ipv4-acl is actually l3 and possibly l4 since the grouping acl-ip-header-fields uses acl-transport-header-fields. You can skip the l4 portions since they are in a presence container. Note that this is different from how you deal with l2 and l3 combinations. I guess I would generally prefer a solution that is more orthogonal wrt. layering and likely not causing maintenance headaches in 5-10 years from now. That said, I am not planning to implement this YANG module myself so as long as multiple implementors think this is all good, it might be sufficient to simply fix terminology and naming to be clear, concise and consistent. /js -- Juergen Schoenwaelder Jacobs University Bremen gGmbH Phone: +49 421 200 3587 Campus Ring 1 | 28759 Bremen | Germany Fax: +49 421 200 3103 From nobody Mon Jul 17 08:19:57 2017 Return-Path: X-Original-To: netmod@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: netmod@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id DCB81131C60 for ; Mon, 17 Jul 2017 08:19:56 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.9 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.9 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, RP_MATCHES_RCVD=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id HrGq9MCg-x4j for ; Mon, 17 Jul 2017 08:19:55 -0700 (PDT) Received: from atlas5.jacobs-university.de (atlas5.jacobs-university.de [212.201.44.20]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher AECDH-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 715A1131C67 for ; Mon, 17 Jul 2017 08:19:49 -0700 (PDT) Received: from localhost (demetrius5.irc-it.jacobs-university.de [10.70.0.222]) by atlas5.jacobs-university.de (Postfix) with ESMTP id 42307323; Mon, 17 Jul 2017 17:19:48 +0200 (CEST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at jacobs-university.de Received: from atlas5.jacobs-university.de ([10.70.0.217]) by localhost (demetrius5.jacobs-university.de [10.70.0.222]) (amavisd-new, port 10032) with ESMTP id EzSrlhXT4Nt3; Mon, 17 Jul 2017 17:19:47 +0200 (CEST) Received: from hermes.jacobs-university.de (hermes.jacobs-university.de [212.201.44.23]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (Client CN "hermes.jacobs-university.de", Issuer "Jacobs University CA - G01" (verified OK)) by atlas5.jacobs-university.de (Postfix) with ESMTPS; Mon, 17 Jul 2017 17:19:48 +0200 (CEST) Received: from localhost (demetrius2.jacobs-university.de [212.201.44.47]) by hermes.jacobs-university.de (Postfix) with ESMTP id 28B9B200AA; Mon, 17 Jul 2017 17:19:48 +0200 (CEST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at jacobs-university.de Received: from hermes.jacobs-university.de ([212.201.44.23]) by localhost (demetrius2.jacobs-university.de [212.201.44.32]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 9t6UOCNdsv33; Mon, 17 Jul 2017 17:19:47 +0200 (CEST) Received: from elstar.local (elstar.jacobs.jacobs-university.de [10.50.231.133]) by hermes.jacobs-university.de (Postfix) with ESMTP id E1B45200A8; Mon, 17 Jul 2017 17:19:47 +0200 (CEST) Received: by elstar.local (Postfix, from userid 501) id 8AE7B3FF22AC; Mon, 17 Jul 2017 17:19:47 +0200 (CEST) Date: Mon, 17 Jul 2017 17:19:47 +0200 From: Juergen Schoenwaelder To: Balazs Lengyel Cc: "netmod@ietf.org" Message-ID: <20170717151947.GA17451@elstar.local> Reply-To: Juergen Schoenwaelder Mail-Followup-To: Balazs Lengyel , "netmod@ietf.org" References: <1622d833-2a05-081a-4104-0cfbd067b7be@ericsson.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <1622d833-2a05-081a-4104-0cfbd067b7be@ericsson.com> User-Agent: Mutt/1.6.0 (2016-04-01) Archived-At: Subject: Re: [netmod] NMDA: What does support for operational mean? X-BeenThere: netmod@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 Precedence: list List-Id: NETMOD WG list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 17 Jul 2017 15:19:57 -0000 On Mon, Jul 17, 2017 at 04:56:29PM +0200, Balazs Lengyel wrote: > > If I indicate support for operational does it just mean I support get-data > on operational, or does it also mean that I have to indicate any differences > between running and operational data-state? If I never-ever have differences > between running and operational (for config=true data) can I still claim > support for operational datastore? > You most likely will have differences, for example IP addresses generated by the system or picked up from DHCP. Your loopback address for your loopback interface is likely not in your config, or is it? /js -- Juergen Schoenwaelder Jacobs University Bremen gGmbH Phone: +49 421 200 3587 Campus Ring 1 | 28759 Bremen | Germany Fax: +49 421 200 3103 From nobody Mon Jul 17 09:02:47 2017 Return-Path: X-Original-To: netmod@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: netmod@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 668FB12711E for ; Mon, 17 Jul 2017 09:02:41 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -14.523 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-14.523 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_HI=-5, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_H3=-0.01, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_WL=-0.01, RP_MATCHES_RCVD=-0.001, SPF_HELO_PASS=-0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, USER_IN_DEF_DKIM_WL=-7.5] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (1024-bit key) header.d=cisco.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id Ds-cCBsHvcg1 for ; Mon, 17 Jul 2017 09:02:40 -0700 (PDT) Received: from rcdn-iport-5.cisco.com (rcdn-iport-5.cisco.com [173.37.86.76]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher DHE-RSA-SEED-SHA (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 059B6131C71 for ; Mon, 17 Jul 2017 09:02:39 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/simple; d=cisco.com; i=@cisco.com; l=3248; q=dns/txt; s=iport; t=1500307360; x=1501516960; h=from:to:subject:date:message-id:mime-version: content-transfer-encoding; bh=a9mH6FKXxeKIqIr/QSAhaw0ViBHi4FA6rl9mUQesuls=; b=PJWP7mAb6kRoKIvR9wGUdiSViVDqSEgWDfTQwM7jPmUISFoyeEYTMx7W 25w+xlR+gWCTJku6i9CX75n/HaOiHhhUWPk8cpbGuScpWGMPey1BF+w4i 8wkuqKT+rmVVQIZ2fugKkLqbbrakVy3csC8Pb+GQTcog6ncIvpHECaRUQ E=; X-IronPort-Anti-Spam-Filtered: true X-IronPort-Anti-Spam-Result: =?us-ascii?q?A0D5AwAQ32xZ/4MNJK1cHAEBBAEBCgEBg?= =?us-ascii?q?1q3Z4IRhT6DT0EWAQIBAQEBAQEBayiFQg8BBXYCJgKLIa9RgiaLDgElgQuCHYN?= =?us-ascii?q?NggyIL4JHMIIxBZBWjl4CgWZBiGuJAoIMiSIjhl6VVyYCL4EKdRVJEgGFAByCA?= =?us-ascii?q?ySJQgEBAQ?= X-IronPort-AV: E=Sophos;i="5.40,375,1496102400"; d="scan'208";a="53086429" Received: from alln-core-1.cisco.com ([173.36.13.131]) by rcdn-iport-5.cisco.com with ESMTP/TLS/DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA; 17 Jul 2017 16:02:39 +0000 Received: from [10.82.172.223] ([10.82.172.223]) by alln-core-1.cisco.com (8.14.5/8.14.5) with ESMTP id v6HG2bEr027386 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO) for ; Mon, 17 Jul 2017 16:02:38 GMT From: "Joe Clarke" To: netmod@ietf.org Date: Mon, 17 Jul 2017 12:02:37 -0400 Message-ID: <3CA05746-FC13-468B-A1EC-4AC1C9082964@cisco.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8; format=flowed; markup=markdown Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Mailer: MailMate Trial (1.9.6r5347) Archived-At: Subject: [netmod] Feedback on ietf-access-control-list X-BeenThere: netmod@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 Precedence: list List-Id: NETMOD WG list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 17 Jul 2017 16:02:41 -0000 I’ve read the latest -11 draft, and I have three comments. I’ve been trying to follow the schema changes and make sure I can properly get my head around them in order to spot any obvious shortcomings. The example in the draft is helpful (as most examples are). However, in the latest draft, it seems that the example has drifted from what the model specifies. I want to make sure I’m not missing something. The current example text is: sample-ipv4-acl ipv4 rule1 10.10.10.1/24 11.11.11.1/24 tcp But I believe in the current model, it should be: sample-ipv4-acl ipv4-acl rule1 10.10.10.1/24 11.11.11.1/24 tcp Based on the presentation, this helps with the typing, and this makes sense to me. === Should there be a default for “logging”? Currently, it’s defined to be an optional boolean without a default. One could infer that if it’s not present, logging is disabled, but the text does not make that explicit. I think it would be good to make this default false. === While I see in the appendix uses for acl-oper-data, it is not clear from the model or main draft text what this would be used for. Again, I inferred what the appendix did, but perhaps there could be some main draft text that speaks to this container explicitly. Joe From nobody Mon Jul 17 09:07:02 2017 Return-Path: X-Original-To: netmod@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: netmod@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id E81BF131C9E for ; Mon, 17 Jul 2017 09:07:00 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -14.523 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-14.523 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_HI=-5, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_H3=-0.01, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_WL=-0.01, RP_MATCHES_RCVD=-0.001, SPF_HELO_PASS=-0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, USER_IN_DEF_DKIM_WL=-7.5] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (1024-bit key) header.d=cisco.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id ek2d9chblzdF for ; Mon, 17 Jul 2017 09:07:00 -0700 (PDT) Received: from rcdn-iport-5.cisco.com (rcdn-iport-5.cisco.com [173.37.86.76]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher DHE-RSA-SEED-SHA (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id DE993131C97 for ; Mon, 17 Jul 2017 09:06:59 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/simple; d=cisco.com; i=@cisco.com; l=854; q=dns/txt; s=iport; t=1500307619; x=1501517219; h=from:to:subject:date:message-id:mime-version: content-transfer-encoding; bh=6bVlKj1W2uMtqeENebo9JxNr/dJwN5oKP4ZUvEvkDOw=; b=Ilow7wLUVlvuHBJ/ySFQW8HTtgTsuIPZtDOef5BeRm4qNNpn7gj404Fn DaP+xGhN0woFW33dX6I0CCQD2eLgQeINFGXg5xW9ASok3xJqjjgSOzPk6 cghyjCKqX7/8hcNe/nmMLYgIvPFTT2AewZJJZRFCrzs/qcYQVqJV3tjB/ g=; X-IronPort-Anti-Spam-Filtered: true X-IronPort-Anti-Spam-Result: =?us-ascii?q?A0DWBQBI4GxZ/4kNJK1cHAEBBAEBCgEBg?= =?us-ascii?q?1qhQZg3hT6DT0MUAQIBAQEBAQEBayiFQg8BBXYCJgKLIa9JgiaLDyaBC4Idg02?= =?us-ascii?q?BYSsLh0JigkcwgjEBBJdCh3ICgWZBkW2LLocBlVc2IYEKdRVbAYcfJIlCAQEB?= X-IronPort-AV: E=Sophos;i="5.40,375,1496102400"; d="scan'208";a="53088421" Received: from alln-core-4.cisco.com ([173.36.13.137]) by rcdn-iport-5.cisco.com with ESMTP/TLS/DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA; 17 Jul 2017 16:06:59 +0000 Received: from [10.82.172.223] ([10.82.172.223]) by alln-core-4.cisco.com (8.14.5/8.14.5) with ESMTP id v6HG6v9G003826 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO) for ; Mon, 17 Jul 2017 16:06:58 GMT From: "Joe Clarke" To: netmod@ietf.org Date: Mon, 17 Jul 2017 12:06:57 -0400 Message-ID: <0187801E-267B-4434-8508-6807435DCB79@cisco.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8; format=flowed; markup=markdown Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Mailer: MailMate Trial (1.9.6r5347) Archived-At: Subject: [netmod] Feedback on NMDA and origin X-BeenThere: netmod@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 Precedence: list List-Id: NETMOD WG list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 17 Jul 2017 16:07:01 -0000 In Rob’s presentation, he mentioned it would be optional to implement “origin” metadata. This is done for performance reasons. However, in subsequent questions, it was clear how important this MD is in determining why an DS looks the way it does. Speaking as someone from a services organization, I would definitely want to make sure one could unambiguously determine (as best as possible) where a value came from. So, am I misunderstanding the guidance around origin? Could vendors just choose not to implement it at all? Kent replied in Jabber that if this was requested by the client, the server SHOULD reply, but why not MUST reply if explicitly asked. My goal is not to be stuck troubleshooting a server without origin and trying to track down where operational state came from. Thanks. Joe From nobody Mon Jul 17 09:16:33 2017 Return-Path: X-Original-To: netmod@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: netmod@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7A1DA131CAD for ; Mon, 17 Jul 2017 09:16:25 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.9 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.9 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, RP_MATCHES_RCVD=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id WQr-WCX2KMVD for ; Mon, 17 Jul 2017 09:16:24 -0700 (PDT) Received: from atlas5.jacobs-university.de (atlas5.jacobs-university.de [212.201.44.20]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher AECDH-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 8D345131C9C for ; Mon, 17 Jul 2017 09:16:23 -0700 (PDT) Received: from localhost (demetrius5.irc-it.jacobs-university.de [10.70.0.222]) by atlas5.jacobs-university.de (Postfix) with ESMTP id B82716C5; Mon, 17 Jul 2017 18:16:21 +0200 (CEST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at jacobs-university.de Received: from atlas5.jacobs-university.de ([10.70.0.217]) by localhost (demetrius5.jacobs-university.de [10.70.0.222]) (amavisd-new, port 10032) with ESMTP id uQWx5qAE1tyR; Mon, 17 Jul 2017 18:16:20 +0200 (CEST) Received: from hermes.jacobs-university.de (hermes.jacobs-university.de [212.201.44.23]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (Client CN "hermes.jacobs-university.de", Issuer "Jacobs University CA - G01" (verified OK)) by atlas5.jacobs-university.de (Postfix) with ESMTPS; Mon, 17 Jul 2017 18:16:21 +0200 (CEST) Received: from localhost (demetrius1.jacobs-university.de [212.201.44.46]) by hermes.jacobs-university.de (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9EFBE200A8; Mon, 17 Jul 2017 18:16:21 +0200 (CEST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at jacobs-university.de Received: from hermes.jacobs-university.de ([212.201.44.23]) by localhost (demetrius1.jacobs-university.de [212.201.44.32]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 5ChrUufCcWI3; Mon, 17 Jul 2017 18:16:21 +0200 (CEST) Received: from elstar.local (elstar.jacobs.jacobs-university.de [10.50.231.133]) by hermes.jacobs-university.de (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3E504200A7; Mon, 17 Jul 2017 18:16:21 +0200 (CEST) Received: by elstar.local (Postfix, from userid 501) id 09EDD3FF248B; Mon, 17 Jul 2017 18:16:20 +0200 (CEST) Date: Mon, 17 Jul 2017 18:16:20 +0200 From: Juergen Schoenwaelder To: Joe Clarke Cc: netmod@ietf.org Message-ID: <20170717161620.GB17515@elstar.local> Reply-To: Juergen Schoenwaelder Mail-Followup-To: Joe Clarke , netmod@ietf.org References: <0187801E-267B-4434-8508-6807435DCB79@cisco.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Disposition: inline X-Clacks-Overhead: GNU Terry Pratchett Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit In-Reply-To: <0187801E-267B-4434-8508-6807435DCB79@cisco.com> User-Agent: Mutt/1.6.0 (2016-04-01) Archived-At: Subject: Re: [netmod] Feedback on NMDA and origin X-BeenThere: netmod@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 Precedence: list List-Id: NETMOD WG list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 17 Jul 2017 16:16:25 -0000 Hi, I think the issue is not performance but implementation costs. Some systems today do not track the origin and hence implementing the origin metadata carries a certain cost. (Of course, one could always return origin='unknown' but then this is not practically useful.) Performance is a protocol interaction issue. If there is a need to disable retrieval of metadata or a need to filter based on metadata, then the protocol documents should take this requirement up, not the NMDA document. /js On Mon, Jul 17, 2017 at 12:06:57PM -0400, Joe Clarke wrote: > In Rob’s presentation, he mentioned it would be optional to implement > “origin” metadata. This is done for performance reasons. However, in > subsequent questions, it was clear how important this MD is in determining > why an DS looks the way it does. Speaking as someone from a > services organization, I would definitely want to make sure one could > unambiguously determine (as best as possible) where a value came from. > > So, am I misunderstanding the guidance around origin? Could vendors just > choose not to implement it at all? Kent replied in Jabber that if this was > requested by the client, the server SHOULD reply, but why not MUST reply if > explicitly asked. My goal is not to be stuck troubleshooting a server > without origin and trying to track down where operational state came from. > > Thanks. > > Joe > > _______________________________________________ > netmod mailing list > netmod@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/netmod -- Juergen Schoenwaelder Jacobs University Bremen gGmbH Phone: +49 421 200 3587 Campus Ring 1 | 28759 Bremen | Germany Fax: +49 421 200 3103 From nobody Mon Jul 17 09:26:11 2017 Return-Path: X-Original-To: netmod@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: netmod@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0C7FC131CAC; Mon, 17 Jul 2017 09:26:08 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.9 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.9 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, RP_MATCHES_RCVD=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id JrmwlUFxpvTS; Mon, 17 Jul 2017 09:26:06 -0700 (PDT) Received: from atlas5.jacobs-university.de (atlas5.jacobs-university.de [212.201.44.20]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher AECDH-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id CC540131CA0; Mon, 17 Jul 2017 09:26:05 -0700 (PDT) Received: from localhost (demetrius5.irc-it.jacobs-university.de [10.70.0.222]) by atlas5.jacobs-university.de (Postfix) with ESMTP id 96A6C6C5; Mon, 17 Jul 2017 18:26:04 +0200 (CEST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at jacobs-university.de Received: from atlas5.jacobs-university.de ([10.70.0.217]) by localhost (demetrius5.jacobs-university.de [10.70.0.222]) (amavisd-new, port 10032) with ESMTP id 3fFWBMQkaGqk; Mon, 17 Jul 2017 18:26:03 +0200 (CEST) Received: from hermes.jacobs-university.de (hermes.jacobs-university.de [212.201.44.23]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (Client CN "hermes.jacobs-university.de", Issuer "Jacobs University CA - G01" (verified OK)) by atlas5.jacobs-university.de (Postfix) with ESMTPS; Mon, 17 Jul 2017 18:26:04 +0200 (CEST) Received: from localhost (demetrius2.jacobs-university.de [212.201.44.47]) by hermes.jacobs-university.de (Postfix) with ESMTP id 72055200AA; Mon, 17 Jul 2017 18:26:04 +0200 (CEST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at jacobs-university.de Received: from hermes.jacobs-university.de ([212.201.44.23]) by localhost (demetrius2.jacobs-university.de [212.201.44.32]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id Aug4RoU1c4rO; Mon, 17 Jul 2017 18:26:04 +0200 (CEST) Received: from elstar.local (elstar.jacobs.jacobs-university.de [10.50.231.133]) by hermes.jacobs-university.de (Postfix) with ESMTP id 11518200A8; Mon, 17 Jul 2017 18:26:04 +0200 (CEST) Received: by elstar.local (Postfix, from userid 501) id EB7193FF253F; Mon, 17 Jul 2017 18:26:03 +0200 (CEST) Date: Mon, 17 Jul 2017 18:26:03 +0200 From: Juergen Schoenwaelder To: "Sterne, Jason (Nokia - CA/Ottawa)" Cc: Robert Wilton , Benoit Claise , NETMOD Working Group , "draft-ietf-netmod-revised-datastores@ietf.org" Message-ID: <20170717162603.GC17515@elstar.local> Reply-To: Juergen Schoenwaelder Mail-Followup-To: "Sterne, Jason (Nokia - CA/Ottawa)" , Robert Wilton , Benoit Claise , NETMOD Working Group , "draft-ietf-netmod-revised-datastores@ietf.org" References: <3bb7e104-6907-dcf5-191e-eb8827595423@cisco.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Disposition: inline X-Clacks-Overhead: GNU Terry Pratchett Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit In-Reply-To: User-Agent: Mutt/1.6.0 (2016-04-01) Archived-At: Subject: Re: [netmod] draft-ietf-netmod-revised-datastores-03 feedback X-BeenThere: netmod@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 Precedence: list List-Id: NETMOD WG list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 17 Jul 2017 16:26:08 -0000 On Mon, Jul 17, 2017 at 09:29:23AM +0000, Sterne, Jason (Nokia - CA/Ottawa) wrote: > Hi guys, > > The distinction between dynamic & learned origin may be a bit confusing (and could be a grey zone in some cases). We likely need further clarification around this in the draft (maybe a dedicated section in the doc, further examples, and ideas of how to decide whether something is dynamic vs learned). Perhaps another useful differentiation is that ‘dynamic’ comes from a dynamic datastore while ‘learned’ does not have a datastore associated with it ? Or does dynamic data sometimes not come from a datastore ? The text in the I-D says o dynamic: represents data provided by a dynamic datastore. o learned: represents configuration that has been learned via protocol interactions with other systems, including protocols such as link-layer negotiations, routing protocols, DHCP, etc. and identity dynamic { base origin; description "Denotes data from a dynamic datastore."; } identity learned { base origin; description "Denotes configuration learned from protocol interactions with other devices, instead of via the intended configuration datastore or any dynamic datastore. Examples of protocols that provide learned configuration include link-layer negotiations, routing protocols, and DHCP."; } Is this text unclear? /js PS: We consider to change 'configuration' to 'data' in the definition of 'learned', i.e., 'represents data that has been learned...' and 'Denotes data learned from..." -- Juergen Schoenwaelder Jacobs University Bremen gGmbH Phone: +49 421 200 3587 Campus Ring 1 | 28759 Bremen | Germany Fax: +49 421 200 3103 From nobody Mon Jul 17 09:34:38 2017 Return-Path: X-Original-To: netmod@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: netmod@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id CA541131CAC for ; Mon, 17 Jul 2017 09:34:36 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -14.522 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-14.522 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_HI=-5, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_H3=-0.01, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_WL=-0.01, RP_MATCHES_RCVD=-0.001, SPF_HELO_PASS=-0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001, USER_IN_DEF_DKIM_WL=-7.5] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (1024-bit key) header.d=cisco.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 44BcK3moMw_R for ; Mon, 17 Jul 2017 09:34:28 -0700 (PDT) Received: from rcdn-iport-9.cisco.com (rcdn-iport-9.cisco.com [173.37.86.80]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher DHE-RSA-SEED-SHA (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 4061D131CB2 for ; Mon, 17 Jul 2017 09:34:28 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/simple; d=cisco.com; i=@cisco.com; l=2286; q=dns/txt; s=iport; t=1500309268; x=1501518868; h=from:to:cc:subject:date:message-id:in-reply-to: references:mime-version:content-transfer-encoding; bh=W2wbG/44zKmCZFeLQKvkgehGSfJjxa1uGH6/DiT3iWc=; b=dXkbE8iO+2y0IiM8PBNpvppmeaDYfotoHSk8mECBeUNnTh9ehWUUVqnC vwmw3PWeCS+ytTS/63io1GFMgxCnRc8BFgZllRBcPrZlMy+OWohDmd7dc 0vPe2D1e53gAMrzAyj6RVdU0zxfM/dTdNKYMVXyo+JdgNgzY/3fpxYOBe o=; X-IronPort-Anti-Spam-Filtered: true X-IronPort-Anti-Spam-Result: =?us-ascii?q?A0DgAABU5mxZ/4MNJK1ZAxkBAQEBAQEBA?= =?us-ascii?q?QEBAQcBAQEBAYNaZIEUjguRPiKWBIIRIQuETEYJAoNGPxgBAgEBAQEBAQFrKIU?= =?us-ascii?q?YAQEBAQIBAQEhDwEFLwcLBQkCCw4CCAICJgICGwwwBhOKJwgQr0mCJosDAQEBA?= =?us-ascii?q?QEBAQEBAQEBAQEBAQEBAQEBHQWBBoIdg02BYSsLgm6EVDcmgkwwgjEFnzQCgie?= =?us-ascii?q?RbYsuhwGVVx84gQp1FUkSAYUAHIIDJDaJDAEBAQ?= X-IronPort-AV: E=Sophos;i="5.40,375,1496102400"; d="scan'208";a="268906494" Received: from alln-core-1.cisco.com ([173.36.13.131]) by rcdn-iport-9.cisco.com with ESMTP/TLS/DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA; 17 Jul 2017 16:34:27 +0000 Received: from [10.82.172.223] ([10.82.172.223]) by alln-core-1.cisco.com (8.14.5/8.14.5) with ESMTP id v6HGYNKJ025955 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO); Mon, 17 Jul 2017 16:34:26 GMT From: "Joe Clarke" To: "Juergen Schoenwaelder" Cc: netmod@ietf.org Date: Mon, 17 Jul 2017 12:34:23 -0400 Message-ID: <9F115A80-5D1E-4976-9207-24A5A655D80F@cisco.com> In-Reply-To: <20170717161620.GB17515@elstar.local> References: <0187801E-267B-4434-8508-6807435DCB79@cisco.com> <20170717161620.GB17515@elstar.local> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Mailer: MailMate Trial (1.9.6r5347) Archived-At: Subject: Re: [netmod] Feedback on NMDA and origin X-BeenThere: netmod@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 Precedence: list List-Id: NETMOD WG list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 17 Jul 2017 16:34:37 -0000 On 17 Jul 2017, at 12:16, Juergen Schoenwaelder wrote: > Hi, > > I think the issue is not performance but implementation costs. Some > systems today do not track the origin and hence implementing the > origin metadata carries a certain cost. (Of course, one could always > return origin='unknown' but then this is not practically useful.) Sorry, implementation cost. Thanks. I could not find in the -03 draft the text that said origin was optional. I would hope there are strong guidelines are implementing this, describing some of the scenarios mentioned in the meeting as well as being more robust when it comes to troubleshooting. Joe > > Performance is a protocol interaction issue. If there is a need to > disable retrieval of metadata or a need to filter based on metadata, > then the protocol documents should take this requirement up, not the > NMDA document. > > /js > > On Mon, Jul 17, 2017 at 12:06:57PM -0400, Joe Clarke wrote: >> In Rob’s presentation, he mentioned it would be optional to >> implement >> “origin” metadata. This is done for performance reasons. >> However, in >> subsequent questions, it was clear how important this MD is in >> determining >> why an DS looks the way it does. Speaking as someone >> from a >> services organization, I would definitely want to make sure one could >> unambiguously determine (as best as possible) where a value came >> from. >> >> So, am I misunderstanding the guidance around origin? Could vendors >> just >> choose not to implement it at all? Kent replied in Jabber that if >> this was >> requested by the client, the server SHOULD reply, but why not MUST >> reply if >> explicitly asked. My goal is not to be stuck troubleshooting a >> server >> without origin and trying to track down where operational state came >> from. >> >> Thanks. >> >> Joe >> >> _______________________________________________ >> netmod mailing list >> netmod@ietf.org >> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/netmod > > -- > Juergen Schoenwaelder Jacobs University Bremen gGmbH > Phone: +49 421 200 3587 Campus Ring 1 | 28759 Bremen | Germany > Fax: +49 421 200 3103 From nobody Mon Jul 17 10:28:07 2017 Return-Path: X-Original-To: netmod@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: netmod@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2601D1294A2; Mon, 17 Jul 2017 10:28:05 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.901 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.901 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id GWf0Ltva_ump; Mon, 17 Jul 2017 10:28:03 -0700 (PDT) Received: from eidolon.nox.tf (eidolon.nox.tf [IPv6:2a07:2ec0:2185::]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 4C40E128AB0; Mon, 17 Jul 2017 10:28:03 -0700 (PDT) Received: from equinox by eidolon.nox.tf with local (Exim 4.89) (envelope-from ) id 1dX9oP-003F3F-Bf; Mon, 17 Jul 2017 19:28:01 +0200 Date: Mon, 17 Jul 2017 19:28:01 +0200 From: David Lamparter To: draft-ietf-netmod-revised-datastores@ietf.org Cc: netmod@ietf.org Message-ID: <20170717172801.GI773745@eidolon> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline User-Agent: Mutt/1.5.24 (2015-08-30) Archived-At: Subject: [netmod] NMDA indication of value "in use" vs. defaults X-BeenThere: netmod@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 Precedence: list List-Id: NETMOD WG list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 17 Jul 2017 17:28:05 -0000 Hi all, so, I need to partially walk back my comments made on mic earlier today. The context where this came from is section 7.6.1 ("The leaf's default value") of both RFCs 7950 and 6020. It says: When the default value is in use, the server MUST operationally behave as if the leaf was present in the data tree with the default value as its value. The point where my earlier arguments fall flat is where it says "the server". My memory is that both some servers as well as libraries effectively "hard-implement" this paragraph; i.e. when you retrieve a value from a loaded configuration, there is no way to distinguish between "X passed in" and "the library filled in X from the model's default". The library doesn't give you the opportunity to break above paragraph. So, since the discussion was in regard to values read back out from the server, the YANG language specs themselves theoretically allow this. ... if you accept that this only applies to configuration written on the server. You could as well read that paragraph to also apply to reading out configuration. And it gets worse. RFC 6243 (with-defaults) starts off with this: 1. Data retrieval: A server is normally allowed to exclude data nodes that it considers to contain the default value. The actual nodes omitted depend on the default-handling behavior used by the server. If this is implemented in an older NETCONF server that does this unconditionally, this effectively breaks operational state retrieval even if the system software does provide correct data with or without defaults. The NETCONF server would just (validly) remove all values that are the same as the model's default -- which then the client would interpret as "these values are not in use". In the same way, "report-all" and "trim" modes for with-defaults would fundamentally break this model where absence of the value indicates not-in-use. "explicit" should work; "report-all-tagged" may work depending on the implementation. ... This, for me, lends the conclusion that this would be massively fragile, even if a specific combination could make it work. My position hence changes from "this doesn't work" to "please don't do this, even if it may work." The solution I would suggest would be to have "is the value in use?" as metadata just like the origin. It can either be a new value on the "datastore" identity (=> if a value is not in use, there is no way to report what datastore it came from), or alternatively it can be a separate metadata annotation (=> you can report not-in-use and still have the value and its origin - if that makes sense, which...) (I'm leaning towards adding "not-in-use" on the origin metadata annotation, as opposed to a separate boolean metadata annotation.) Whether the value would have any meaning if "in-use=false" or "datastore=not-in-use" are signalled is an open question with this approach. I would argue if the value isn't in use down in the system, the value sent to the client (if any) is meaningless (and the system usually wouldn't be able to provide it to begin with.) I haven't explored the details of this though. Hope this is useful input, -David P.S.: The original case where I stumbled over this is OpenConfig's BGP model having some leaves with default values, and then saying "if the value is not present, use the parent's value". This is a hard violation of the YANG spec; if a default value is in the model, the server isn't permitted to deviate and hunt for the parent's value in lieu of using the model default. (This was a year ago, I think/hope the model changed.) From nobody Mon Jul 17 14:51:56 2017 Return-Path: X-Original-To: netmod@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: netmod@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id CA4AA131CC7; Mon, 17 Jul 2017 14:51:55 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.9 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.9 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, RP_MATCHES_RCVD=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id k4AtKEqKEEkC; Mon, 17 Jul 2017 14:51:53 -0700 (PDT) Received: from atlas5.jacobs-university.de (atlas5.jacobs-university.de [212.201.44.20]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher AECDH-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 6203C126CC7; Mon, 17 Jul 2017 14:51:53 -0700 (PDT) Received: from localhost (demetrius5.irc-it.jacobs-university.de [10.70.0.222]) by atlas5.jacobs-university.de (Postfix) with ESMTP id 671EF323; Mon, 17 Jul 2017 23:51:51 +0200 (CEST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at jacobs-university.de Received: from atlas5.jacobs-university.de ([10.70.0.217]) by localhost (demetrius5.jacobs-university.de [10.70.0.222]) (amavisd-new, port 10032) with ESMTP id GgJzv54SyNp3; Mon, 17 Jul 2017 23:51:49 +0200 (CEST) Received: from hermes.jacobs-university.de (hermes.jacobs-university.de [212.201.44.23]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (Client CN "hermes.jacobs-university.de", Issuer "Jacobs University CA - G01" (verified OK)) by atlas5.jacobs-university.de (Postfix) with ESMTPS; Mon, 17 Jul 2017 23:51:51 +0200 (CEST) Received: from localhost (demetrius3.jacobs-university.de [212.201.44.48]) by hermes.jacobs-university.de (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2892B200A8; Mon, 17 Jul 2017 23:51:51 +0200 (CEST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at jacobs-university.de Received: from hermes.jacobs-university.de ([212.201.44.23]) by localhost (demetrius3.jacobs-university.de [212.201.44.32]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id RnF4Uxi1u19P; Mon, 17 Jul 2017 23:51:50 +0200 (CEST) Received: from elstar.local (elstar.jacobs.jacobs-university.de [10.50.231.133]) by hermes.jacobs-university.de (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5DA9E200A7; Mon, 17 Jul 2017 23:51:50 +0200 (CEST) Received: by elstar.local (Postfix, from userid 501) id 3A1323FF2B58; Mon, 17 Jul 2017 23:51:50 +0200 (CEST) Date: Mon, 17 Jul 2017 23:51:49 +0200 From: Juergen Schoenwaelder To: David Lamparter Cc: draft-ietf-netmod-revised-datastores@ietf.org, netmod@ietf.org Message-ID: <20170717215149.GA17852@elstar.local> Reply-To: Juergen Schoenwaelder Mail-Followup-To: David Lamparter , draft-ietf-netmod-revised-datastores@ietf.org, netmod@ietf.org References: <20170717172801.GI773745@eidolon> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <20170717172801.GI773745@eidolon> User-Agent: Mutt/1.6.0 (2016-04-01) Archived-At: Subject: Re: [netmod] NMDA indication of value "in use" vs. defaults X-BeenThere: netmod@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 Precedence: list List-Id: NETMOD WG list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 17 Jul 2017 21:51:56 -0000 David, I am still not sure what the problem is. We proposed that the datastore always reports the values that are in use, whatever their origin is. This seems simple and clear if you want to troubleshoot something. On Mon, Jul 17, 2017 at 07:28:01PM +0200, David Lamparter wrote: > Hi all, > > > so, I need to partially walk back my comments made on mic earlier today. > The context where this came from is section 7.6.1 ("The leaf's default > value") of both RFCs 7950 and 6020. It says: > > When the default value is in use, the server MUST operationally > behave as if the leaf was present in the data tree with the default > value as its value. > > The point where my earlier arguments fall flat is where it says "the > server". My memory is that both some servers as well as libraries > effectively "hard-implement" this paragraph; i.e. when you retrieve a > value from a loaded configuration, there is no way to distinguish > between "X passed in" and "the library filled in X from the model's > default". The library doesn't give you the opportunity to break above > paragraph. > > So, since the discussion was in regard to values read back out from the > server, the YANG language specs themselves theoretically allow this. > > ... if you accept that this only applies to configuration written on the > server. You could as well read that paragraph to also apply to reading > out configuration. > > And it gets worse. RFC 6243 (with-defaults) starts off with this: > 1. Data retrieval: A server is normally allowed to exclude data > nodes that it considers to contain the default value. The actual > nodes omitted depend on the default-handling behavior used by the > server. > > If this is implemented in an older NETCONF server that does this > unconditionally, this effectively breaks operational state retrieval > even if the system software does provide correct data with or without > defaults. The NETCONF server would just (validly) remove all values > that are the same as the model's default -- which then the client would > interpret as "these values are not in use". RFC 6243 was written before did exist and we propose that always reports the values in use (regardless whether they match defaults or not). > In the same way, "report-all" and "trim" modes for with-defaults would > fundamentally break this model where absence of the value indicates > not-in-use. "explicit" should work; "report-all-tagged" may work > depending on the implementation. > > ... > > This, for me, lends the conclusion that this would be massively fragile, > even if a specific combination could make it work. My position hence > changes from "this doesn't work" to "please don't do this, even if it > may work." Always reporting the value in use should be fine. If libraries mess up the data it seems a library issue. Libraries should not mess around with data. The data in data is the ground truth of what the device is really doing, messing around with it before passing it to an application is not recommended. > The solution I would suggest would be to have "is the value in use?" as > metadata just like the origin. It can either be a new value on the > "datastore" identity (=> if a value is not in use, there is no way to > report what datastore it came from), or alternatively it can be a > separate metadata annotation (=> you can report not-in-use and still > have the value and its origin - if that makes sense, which...) > > (I'm leaning towards adding "not-in-use" on the origin metadata > annotation, as opposed to a separate boolean metadata annotation.) But if something is not in use, it may not even have a value. So I end up reporting fake values for things that are not is use decorated with metadata that these fake values are not in use? Does not sound very efficient to me. > Whether the value would have any meaning if "in-use=false" or > "datastore=not-in-use" are signalled is an open question with this > approach. I would argue if the value isn't in use down in the system, > the value sent to the client (if any) is meaningless (and the system > usually wouldn't be able to provide it to begin with.) I haven't > explored the details of this though. > > > Hope this is useful input, > > -David > > > P.S.: The original case where I stumbled over this is OpenConfig's BGP > model having some leaves with default values, and then saying "if the > value is not present, use the parent's value". This is a hard violation > of the YANG spec; if a default value is in the model, the server isn't > permitted to deviate and hunt for the parent's value in lieu of using > the model default. (This was a year ago, I think/hope the model > changed.) /js -- Juergen Schoenwaelder Jacobs University Bremen gGmbH Phone: +49 421 200 3587 Campus Ring 1 | 28759 Bremen | Germany Fax: +49 421 200 3103 From nobody Mon Jul 17 16:20:44 2017 Return-Path: X-Original-To: netmod@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: netmod@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4AB39131CC7 for ; Mon, 17 Jul 2017 16:20:43 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.901 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.901 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, RP_MATCHES_RCVD=-0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id cm5klRo2-oVg for ; Mon, 17 Jul 2017 16:20:41 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail-send.aviatnet.com (mail-send.aviatnet.com [192.147.115.54]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id E3DC9131B4F for ; Mon, 17 Jul 2017 16:20:41 -0700 (PDT) From: Alex Campbell To: Kent Watsen , "netmod@ietf.org" Thread-Topic: WG Last Call for draft-ietf-netmod-syslog-model-15 Thread-Index: AQHS90+tnxmaKupZ/kyeF+fon7bzlqJYswb2 Date: Mon, 17 Jul 2017 23:20:40 +0000 Message-ID: <1500333639904.57913@Aviatnet.com> References: <91245764-587A-4F9C-B8F4-8A9A7E2BC9BB@juniper.net> In-Reply-To: <91245764-587A-4F9C-B8F4-8A9A7E2BC9BB@juniper.net> Accept-Language: en-NZ, en-US Content-Language: en-NZ X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-ms-exchange-transport-fromentityheader: Hosted x-originating-ip: [10.15.6.9] Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable MIME-Version: 1.0 Archived-At: Subject: Re: [netmod] WG Last Call for draft-ietf-netmod-syslog-model-15 X-BeenThere: netmod@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 Precedence: list List-Id: NETMOD WG list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 17 Jul 2017 23:20:43 -0000 I am considering to implement the data model in this draft. (dependent on b= usiness priorities of course)=0A= I have reviewed this draft and found the following issues.=0A= =0A= * I see pattern-match is specified to use POSIX 1003.2 regular expressions.= This is presumably for compatibility with existing implementations; howeve= r it is inconsistent with most of YANG (which is specified to use XPath reg= ular expressions) - unless these are the same.=0A= * pattern-match is inside the facility-filter container; common sense says = this is wrong as pattern-match has nothing to do with facilities.=0A= * The advanced-compare container groups together two nodes that share a com= mon "when" and "if-feature" statement, but don't seem to have any semantic = relation to each other. Are there general guidelines on when to use a conta= iner?=0A= * The advanced-compare container has a description starting with "This leaf= ..." even though it is not a leaf.=0A= * The examples are missing nodes.=0A= * Perhaps there should be more consistent terminology for receivers of sysl= og messages; both "collectors" and "actions" are used in the draft. RFC 542= 4 uses "collector" for the ultimate recipient of a log message - which migh= t not be applicable, because the sending system has no idea whether the rec= eiving system is a collector or a relay.=0A= =0A= =0A= =0A= =0A= ________________________________________=0A= From: netmod on behalf of Kent Watsen =0A= Sent: Saturday, 8 July 2017 6:34 a.m.=0A= To: netmod@ietf.org=0A= Subject: [netmod] WG Last Call for draft-ietf-netmod-syslog-model-15=0A= =0A= This is a notice to start a three week NETMOD WG last call for the=0A= document:=0A= =0A= A YANG Data Model for Syslog Configuration=0A= https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-netmod-syslog-model-15=0A= =0A= Note: Three weeks is more than needed, especially given this=0A= draft has been through Last Call before, but we understand=0A= folks are busy these days.=0A= =0A= Please indicate your support or concerns by Friday, July 28, 2017.=0A= =0A= We are particularly interested in statements of the form:=0A= * I have reviewed this draft and found no issues.=0A= * I have reviewed this draft and found the following issues: ...=0A= =0A= As well as:=0A= * I have implemented the data model in this draft.=0A= * I am implementing the data model in this draft.=0A= * I am considering to implement the data model in this draft.=0A= * I am not considering to implement the data model in this draft.=0A= =0A= Thank you,=0A= NETMOD WG Chairs=0A= =0A= =0A= =0A= =0A= _______________________________________________=0A= netmod mailing list=0A= netmod@ietf.org=0A= https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/netmod=0A= From nobody Mon Jul 17 23:21:32 2017 Return-Path: X-Original-To: netmod@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: netmod@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4D75D127735 for ; 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Mon, 17 Jul 2017 23:21:27 -0700 (PDT) Received: from [10.24.20.224] ([128.107.241.191]) by smtp.gmail.com with ESMTPSA id n19sm2384665pfa.64.2017.07.17.23.21.25 for (version=TLS1 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-AES128-SHA bits=128/128); Mon, 17 Jul 2017 23:21:26 -0700 (PDT) From: Mahesh Jethanandani Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="Apple-Mail=_15F8594B-BF25-4F7F-9ACA-8B2213E6214E" Message-Id: Date: Tue, 18 Jul 2017 08:21:29 +0200 To: NetMod WG Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 9.3 \(3124\)) X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.3124) Archived-At: Subject: [netmod] ACL draft defines ether-type as a string X-BeenThere: netmod@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 Precedence: list List-Id: NETMOD WG list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 18 Jul 2017 06:21:29 -0000 --Apple-Mail=_15F8594B-BF25-4F7F-9ACA-8B2213E6214E Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii The issue of ether-type defined as a string was discussed with = participants from IEEE in IETF. It was generally agreed that since = ether-types are well known values, and centrally managed, that they be = defined as enumerations. There was some clarification sought by IEEE on = which values need to be published. It was suggested that ether-types = that are either private or do not have a protocol identified would be = named as ether-type-0xXXXX where 0xXXXX represents the value assigned. = All the remaining ether-types will be defined as enums with the well = known names.=20 As far as the impact of that on the ACL draft is concerned, it will be = to remove all local definitions for ether-type from the draft, such as = the one below and instead use the definition from IEEE, whenever that is = done. It does however put a dependency on the IEEE model. leaf ether-type { type string { pattern '[0-9a-fA-F]{4}'; } description "The Ethernet Type (or Length) value represented in the canonical order defined by IEEE 802. The canonical representation uses lowercase characters. Note: This is not the most ideal way to define ether-types. Ether-types are well known types and are registered with RAC in IEEE. So they should well defined types with values. For now this model is defining it as a string. There is a note out to IEEE that needs to be turned into a liaison statement asking them to define all ether-types for the industry to use."; reference "IEEE 802-2014 Clause 9.2"; } reference "IEEE 802: IEEE Standard for Local and Metropolitan Area Networks: Overview and Architecture."; } Mahesh Jethanandani mjethanandani@gmail.com --Apple-Mail=_15F8594B-BF25-4F7F-9ACA-8B2213E6214E Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/html; charset=us-ascii The issue of ether-type defined as a string was discussed = with participants from IEEE in IETF. It was generally agreed that since = ether-types are well known values, and centrally managed, that they be = defined as enumerations. There was some clarification sought by IEEE on = which values need to be published. It was suggested that ether-types = that are either private or do not have a protocol identified would be = named as ether-type-0xXXXX where 0xXXXX represents the value assigned. = All the remaining ether-types will be defined as enums with the well = known names. 

As = far as the impact of that on the ACL draft is concerned, it will be to = remove all local definitions for ether-type from the draft, such as the = one below and instead use the definition from IEEE, whenever that is = done. It does however put a dependency on the IEEE model.

    leaf ether-type {
      type string {
        pattern '[0-9a-fA-F]{4}';
      }
      description
        "The Ethernet Type (or Length) value represented
         in the canonical order defined by IEEE 802.
         The canonical representation uses lowercase
         characters.

         Note: This is not the most ideal way to define
         ether-types. Ether-types are well known types
         and are registered with RAC in IEEE. So they
         should well defined types with values. For now
         this model is defining it as a string.

         There is a note out to IEEE that needs to be
         turned into a liaison statement asking them to
         define all ether-types for the industry to use.";
      reference
        "IEEE 802-2014 Clause 9.2";
    }
    reference
      "IEEE 802: IEEE Standard for Local and Metropolitan
       Area Networks: Overview and Architecture.";
  }

Mahesh Jethanandani
mjethanandani@gmail.com



= --Apple-Mail=_15F8594B-BF25-4F7F-9ACA-8B2213E6214E-- From nobody Tue Jul 18 00:12:40 2017 Return-Path: X-Original-To: netmod@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: netmod@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 83902131B4D; Tue, 18 Jul 2017 00:12:38 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.999 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.999 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=gmail.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id F63Fx7m8ReD3; Tue, 18 Jul 2017 00:12:36 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail-pg0-x22d.google.com (mail-pg0-x22d.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:400e:c05::22d]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 4EE9B131562; Tue, 18 Jul 2017 00:12:36 -0700 (PDT) Received: by mail-pg0-x22d.google.com with SMTP id k14so7785537pgr.0; Tue, 18 Jul 2017 00:12:36 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20161025; h=mime-version:subject:from:in-reply-to:date:cc:message-id:references :to; bh=dxp47ULuoUkTZ7KuhOI5tItw3SQr1UFdMEneEzO5/xI=; b=i8UxWHxlbgdv7qrSIjUtSBbm/D1qpAbMI5Q1izZAcmHQfkMGOYDvPOtb1MoMD2SNZX m7qvYOo1wRfuxf0vPxqBd4ISSbRXuQHskw/2FGzN4Fny/M6shsK0FfJFUo5kvpvOnBvg 4xJ5BaxDPDO/ycpbaI4JOOBAZJLPXxWnufwlq6V0GQFsOB3Tycjf6K/KRgw0izsyeqW2 QPbpAiITsssW9b0D6nAToNSQU+HU5jfEsiwIuBZYW+P23mccor/kmb7Eip0HBq8LYoSf 2O0eM6Yp03aW2swlNNZowkJ0n0dzbOcYVDK9jZgx0cTe6YCnDXxXjNOGMAqkw2tviANv yUEg== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:subject:from:in-reply-to:date:cc :message-id:references:to; bh=dxp47ULuoUkTZ7KuhOI5tItw3SQr1UFdMEneEzO5/xI=; b=lsEtAID48jXokiYaG0Wm1QqWG0HFodDLjrqdzrAtjXH/E059fcxfEskPJXEo6flqCX N/J2SS2s+BYGvlucY+/p15mSBgLwFbN/McXfJ9NQvgChQmNLyRKzj+LZyPnwGFYmycMr b7P9FK1q3ZL0sGvQu+53mvdXzQ8tyudW4475gcT0FsCtLug1Pq1ywd670Kg1iUct7GvV CipWzcV+gJ8aAkUhc0Nipl9uNkPlBYvc4e6SEvnk2/v3MXrfooxJBAl3tt0OUY93PnRE 6apg1QXLFrZX+BfJdnC97DtHBlkyYspEPtx6wNji2J04gagUuEiHGpgiTRWL6OQgl+7X pbQQ== X-Gm-Message-State: AIVw11385DCYzq/d166gxGkRf0kjQGZQmEY/9/JEA7M25un0itbws1k8 EoYfYBz6M85atQ== X-Received: by 10.98.108.74 with SMTP id h71mr250073pfc.206.1500361955820; Tue, 18 Jul 2017 00:12:35 -0700 (PDT) Received: from [10.24.20.224] ([128.107.241.191]) by smtp.gmail.com with ESMTPSA id d19sm2873674pfe.24.2017.07.18.00.12.33 (version=TLS1 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-AES128-SHA bits=128/128); Tue, 18 Jul 2017 00:12:35 -0700 (PDT) Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="Apple-Mail=_46D7EDD3-3953-4C6C-A301-016F33088904" Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 9.3 \(3124\)) From: Mahesh Jethanandani In-Reply-To: Date: Tue, 18 Jul 2017 09:12:37 +0200 Cc: Robert Wilton , Xufeng Liu , "netmod@ietf.org" , "draft-dsdt-nmda-guidelines@ietf.org" Message-Id: References: <20170613200928.GA55527@elstar.local> <2513fdd0-a8b3-b547-8c37-c736c575c4bc@cisco.com> <0505FAA8-BB82-4BCB-B4A5-E8018260580D@gmail.com> <5525cbb1-9ac7-bf24-67e1-68bb681be6ac@cisco.com> To: "Sterne, Jason (Nokia - CA/Ottawa)" X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.3124) Archived-At: Subject: Re: [netmod] Clarification Question on draft-dsdt-nmda-guidelines-01 X-BeenThere: netmod@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 Precedence: list List-Id: NETMOD WG list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 18 Jul 2017 07:12:39 -0000 --Apple-Mail=_46D7EDD3-3953-4C6C-A301-016F33088904 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Jason, > On Jul 17, 2017, at 11:38 AM, Sterne, Jason (Nokia - CA/Ottawa) = wrote: >=20 > Hi guys, >=20 > This is something that could use further clarification in the draft. = i.e. examples and guidelines of when to create a separate "config false" = leaf (vs the more typical case of just having a single "config true" = leaf). There is an example in there currently but I personally found = it confusing: >=20 > "An example would be the speed > of an interface, where the configured value may not be the value = that > is currently used.=E2=80=9D It turns out that the example I had in mind does not create a separate = =E2=80=98config false=E2=80=99 leaf. Instead, I see two leafs defined = as: leaf auto-negotiation { type boolean { description =E2=80=9CWhen set to true, the interface will auto negotiate for = speed. When set to false, a separate leaf called =E2=80=98speed=E2=80=99 = will define the desired speed.=E2=80=9D; } } leaf speed { type enumeration { enum 10M; =E2=80=A6. enum 10G; } } Notice, I have not defined speed as a =E2=80=98config false=E2=80=99 = leaf, because it could be used if auto-negotiation is set to false to = manually set the speed of the interface. But I see the interface name as a =E2=80=98config false=E2=80=99 leaf, = because the name of the interface is assigned by the system, and cannot = be changed by the user. leaf interface-name { config false; type string { description =E2=80=9CName of the interface as assigned by the system. This = could=20 include information of which line card the interface is on.=20 Example, GigabitEthernet 0/0/0/0=E2=80=9D; } } Does this help? >=20 > I wasn't sure if that example referred to the same issue as you guys = are discussing below. Perhaps as a minimum we could grab some of the = details for the example below and incorporate them into the draft ? >=20 > Rgds, > Jason >=20 >> -----Original Message----- >> From: netmod [mailto:netmod-bounces@ietf.org = ] On Behalf Of Robert Wilton >> Sent: Wednesday, June 14, 2017 17:54 >> To: Mahesh Jethanandani > >> Cc: Xufeng Liu >; = netmod@ietf.org ; draft-dsdt-nmda- >> guidelines@ietf.org >> Subject: Re: [netmod] Clarification Question on = draft-dsdt-nmda-guidelines-01 >>=20 >>=20 >>=20 >> On 14/06/2017 16:23, Mahesh Jethanandani wrote: >>>> On Jun 14, 2017, at 8:10 AM, Robert Wilton = wrote: >>>>=20 >>>> Hi Xufeng, >>>>=20 >>>>=20 >>>> On 14/06/2017 14:01, Xufeng Liu wrote: >>>>> Hi Juergen, >>>>>=20 >>>>> Thanks for the confirmation. >>>>> As for the distinction between applied configuration and = operational, I >> think that it has been determined to be useful in some use cases. We = can >> create a separate leaf in such a case. >>>> Yes, I think that this is exactly the right approach. >>>>=20 >>>> In the general case, a single leaf for applied configuration and = the >> operational value is normally sufficient. >>>>=20 >>>> But in some cases (e.g. where a value could be configured and/or >> negotiated via protocol) then it sometimes useful to both see the = input into the >> protocol negotiation and also the resultant output value. >>>>=20 >>>> Here, there is a choice to be made to decide whether the extra = config false >> leaf represents the input value into the negotiation, or the output = value. I >> think that the decision probably depends on the protocol semantics, = but all >> things being equal, there is a benefit if the configured value and = actual >> operational value end up being represented by the same leaf/path = (since this in >> the case in the mainline case where extra config false leaves are not = required). >>> Another way to look at it is whether the input value is truly = different from the >> output value. For example, if the input value is auto-negotiation, a = boolean, but >> the output value is a speed of 10/100/1000/10000, a uint32, then a = separate >> leaf makes sense. >> Yes, agreed. >>=20 >> For cases like these (e.g. Ethernet auto-negotiation) a good approach = seem to >> be to model the leaf "enabling auto" as a separate leaf from the = explicitly >> configured/operational value. >>=20 >> Thanks, >> Rob >>=20 >>=20 >>>=20 >>>> Thanks, >>>> Rob >>>>=20 >>>>=20 >>>>> Regards, >>>>> - Xufeng >>>>>=20 >>>>>> -----Original Message----- >>>>>> From: Juergen Schoenwaelder >>>>>> [mailto:j.schoenwaelder@jacobs-university.de] >>>>>> Sent: Tuesday, June 13, 2017 4:10 PM >>>>>> To: Xufeng Liu >>>>>> Cc: draft-dsdt-nmda-guidelines@ietf.org; netmod@ietf.org >>>>>> Subject: Re: Clarification Question on >>>>>> draft-dsdt-nmda-guidelines-01 >>>>>>=20 >>>>>> Hi, >>>>>>=20 >>>>>> the typical -state tree consists of config false nodes and hence = it >>>>>> represents operational state. This is not a transitioning period >>>>>> question, this is how -state trees were designed. Note also that >>>>>> the applied configuration is part of the operational state in = NMDA >>>>>> - for config true objects, there is no difference between the >>>>>> applied configuration value and the operationally used value - = they are >> the same. >>>>>>=20 >>>>>> /js >>>>>>=20 >>>>>> On Tue, Jun 13, 2017 at 07:53:32PM +0000, Xufeng Liu wrote: >>>>>>> During discussing the adoption of this guidelines, a question = came >>>>>>> up w.r.t. the >>>>>> semantics of the non-NMDA "-state" module during the = transitioning >> period: >>>>>>> What kind of state do the leaves in the "-state" module = represent? >>>>>>> The applied >>>>>> configuration or the actually used operational data? >>>>>>> Since only of the two types can be represented, what is the >>>>>>> guideline to model >>>>>> the other type? >>>>>>> Thanks, >>>>>>> - Xufeng >>>>>> -- >>>>>> Juergen Schoenwaelder Jacobs University Bremen gGmbH >>>>>> Phone: +49 421 200 3587 Campus Ring 1 | 28759 Bremen | = Germany >>>>>> Fax: +49 421 200 3103 = >>>>> . >>>>>=20 >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> netmod mailing list >>>> netmod@ietf.org >>>> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/netmod >>> Mahesh Jethanandani >>> mjethanandani@gmail.com >>>=20 >>>=20 >>>=20 >>> . >>>=20 >>=20 >> _______________________________________________ >> netmod mailing list >> netmod@ietf.org >> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/netmod = Mahesh Jethanandani mjethanandani@gmail.com --Apple-Mail=_46D7EDD3-3953-4C6C-A301-016F33088904 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/html; charset=utf-8 Jason,

On Jul 17, 2017, at 11:38 AM, = Sterne, Jason (Nokia - CA/Ottawa) <jason.sterne@nokia.com> wrote:

Hi guys,

This is something that could use further = clarification in the draft.  i.e. examples and guidelines of when = to create a separate "config false" leaf (vs the more typical case of = just having a single "config true" leaf).   There is an = example in there currently but I personally found it = confusing:

   "An= example would be the speed
   of an interface, where = the configured value may not be the value that
   is = currently used.=E2=80=9D

It turns out that the example I had in mind does not = create a separate =E2=80=98config false=E2=80=99 leaf. Instead, I see = two leafs defined as:

leaf = auto-negotiation {
  type boolean {
  =   description
      =E2=80=9CWhen set to = true, the interface will auto negotiate for speed.
  =      When set to false, a separate leaf called = =E2=80=98speed=E2=80=99 will define
      =  the desired speed.=E2=80=9D;
  = }
}

leaf speed = {
  type enumeration {
    enum = 10M;
    =E2=80=A6.
    enum = 10G;
  }
}

Notice, I have not defined speed as a =E2=80=98confi= g false=E2=80=99 leaf, because it could be used if auto-negotiation is = set to false to manually set the speed of the interface.

But I see the interface name as a =E2=80=98config = false=E2=80=99 leaf, because the name of the interface is assigned by = the system, and cannot be changed by the user.

leaf interface-name {
  config = false;
  type string {
    = description
      =E2=80=9CName of the = interface as assigned by the system. This could 
  =      include information of which line card the interface = is on. 
       Example, = GigabitEthernet 0/0/0/0=E2=80=9D;
  = }
}

Does this = help?


I wasn't sure if that example referred to = the same issue as you guys are discussing below.  Perhaps as a = minimum we could grab some of the details for the example below and = incorporate them into the draft ?

Rgds,
Jason

-----Original Message-----
From: netmod [mailto:netmod-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of Robert = Wilton
Sent: Wednesday, June 14, 2017 17:54
To: Mahesh Jethanandani <mjethanandani@gmail.com>
Cc: Xufeng Liu = <Xufeng_Liu@jabil.com>; netmod@ietf.org; = draft-dsdt-nmda-
guidelines@ietf.org
Subject: Re: [netmod] = Clarification Question on draft-dsdt-nmda-guidelines-01



On 14/06/2017 16:23, Mahesh = Jethanandani wrote:
On Jun 14, 2017, at 8:10 = AM, Robert Wilton <rwilton@cisco.com> wrote:

Hi Xufeng,


On = 14/06/2017 14:01, Xufeng Liu wrote:
Hi Juergen,

Thanks = for the confirmation.
As for the distinction between = applied configuration and operational, I
think that it has been = determined to be useful in some use cases. We can
create a = separate leaf in such a case.
Yes, I think that this = is exactly the right approach.

In the = general case, a single leaf for applied configuration and the
operational value is normally = sufficient.

But in some cases (e.g. where a = value could be configured and/or
negotiated via protocol) then it = sometimes useful to both see the input into the
protocol = negotiation and also the resultant output value.

Here, there is a choice to be made to decide whether the = extra config false
leaf = represents the input value into the negotiation, or the output value. =  I
think that the decision probably depends on the = protocol semantics, but all
things being equal, there is a = benefit if the configured value and actual
operational = value end up being represented by the same leaf/path (since this in
the case in the mainline case where extra config false leaves = are not required).
Another way to look at it is whether the input value is truly = different from the
output value. For example, = if the input value is auto-negotiation, a boolean, but
the = output value is a speed of 10/100/1000/10000, a uint32, then a = separate
leaf makes sense.
Yes, agreed.

For cases like these (e.g. Ethernet = auto-negotiation) a good approach seem to
be to model the = leaf "enabling auto" as a separate leaf from the explicitly
configured/operational value.

Thanks,
Rob



Thanks,
Rob


Regards,- Xufeng

-----Original Message-----
From: = Juergen Schoenwaelder
[mailto:j.schoenwaelder@jacobs-university.de]
Sent: Tuesday, June 13, 2017 4:10 PM
To: Xufeng = Liu <Xufeng_Liu@jabil.com>
Cc: draft-dsdt-nmda-guidelines@ietf.org; netmod@ietf.org
Subject: Re: Clarification Question on
draft-dsdt-nmda-guidelines-01

Hi,

the typical -state tree = consists of config false nodes and hence it
represents = operational state. This is not a transitioning period
question, this is how -state trees were designed. Note also = that
the applied configuration is part of the operational = state in NMDA
- for config true objects, there is no = difference between the
applied configuration value and the = operationally used value - they are
the = same.

/js

On Tue, Jun 13, 2017 at 07:53:32PM +0000, Xufeng Liu = wrote:
During = discussing the adoption of this guidelines, a question came
up w.r.t. the
semantics of the = non-NMDA "-state" module during the transitioning
period:
What kind of state do = the leaves in the "-state" module represent?
The = applied
configuration or the actually used = operational data?
Since= only of the two types can be represented, what is the
guideline to model
the other = type?
Thanks,
- Xufeng
--
Juergen = Schoenwaelder =           Jacobs = University Bremen gGmbH
Phone: +49 421 200 3587 =         Campus Ring 1 | 28759 = Bremen | Germany
Fax:   +49 421 200 3103 =         <http://www.jacobs-university.de/>
.

_______________________________________________netmod mailing list
netmod@ietf.org
https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/netmod
Mahesh Jethanandani
mjethanandani@gmail.com



.


_______________________________________________
netmod mailing list
netmod@ietf.org
https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/netmod

Mahesh Jethanandani
mjethanandani@gmail.com



= --Apple-Mail=_46D7EDD3-3953-4C6C-A301-016F33088904-- From nobody Tue Jul 18 00:20:09 2017 Return-Path: X-Original-To: netmod@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: netmod@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id D5A83131600 for ; Tue, 18 Jul 2017 00:20:07 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.999 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.999 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=gmail.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id ADm4928Y7Q5N for ; Tue, 18 Jul 2017 00:20:01 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail-pf0-x230.google.com (mail-pf0-x230.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:400e:c00::230]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 37E5013167A for ; Tue, 18 Jul 2017 00:20:01 -0700 (PDT) Received: by mail-pf0-x230.google.com with SMTP id q85so7193525pfq.1 for ; Tue, 18 Jul 2017 00:20:01 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20161025; h=mime-version:subject:from:in-reply-to:date:cc:message-id:references :to; bh=Mle/CR1f5SVeE6x32CugEyD0arbVpsJGoNzGX88f0jc=; b=KYKolhB8LHvY2+kdyfR7XsGxNKTZ6Bz30WKh2NWOI68AFKmj9dvSXqbkJ9QSQcx3O/ lV2r08jbdXISnOOmXs4JtRGjW1Utd+xM6F6xzUT0kCGzChBSztDvvyjjYNmuJqg4Wpkq qtHWhVJFay6OGSQdQVFmutzaXtuxGmvzaRWCZsgQEf4L08Uu+ZHOLSLOW2sgjZSBthC2 AGP9d6CTTj/GXIR+a9zUXj7dLCzcUyof62GWibBI9OJtE1QjkNUX54pTdP34fYi9wJyd kKbUxEDINUZJlaCxDPz8muYjhN880O3qMyU3RAPN2ek5dwHrg07P4ECEaB4EPdsl/Yuw gMPw== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:subject:from:in-reply-to:date:cc :message-id:references:to; bh=Mle/CR1f5SVeE6x32CugEyD0arbVpsJGoNzGX88f0jc=; b=naV7r+2Q8T+vj4DjWaVnvNBFFYkEb2cZqX1vUiuy47jrnTgsNfDU1FtkaT9Fok9LEO 1j0zW16D9mM0DimXBDc4Ld0in2+e119P4FEZJgzhYR5ndm5tVmMbJCY4g7Ipju8KmxHA ZcwHMp51o44nFOIEBQB8nEG6LL2MRmunmITommM6tPVWJTTRi3QoP2+3KAU7HNDpO0XM d4QfgCQr2+IJWKPUqVcIpEcekrBK1Ju92/GMl+DpQ2wlVzhk6uYahNlgj0+vG7dV+vU0 vuCWpBBfOgqMpxBWJogWQSYomnCmC/nvfkyGutXZIQIAIsNGd+L3OWgfpWr1k/jbNu5a 25ww== X-Gm-Message-State: AIVw112OgYmkXhhxM813AlQOJlwfFXmdm4BoKPlOEWc/4u2rpaSkA/Nk ANXK6OECL+GQ1T9YCJM= X-Received: by 10.98.41.134 with SMTP id p128mr204649pfp.179.1500362400858; Tue, 18 Jul 2017 00:20:00 -0700 (PDT) Received: from [10.24.20.224] ([128.107.241.191]) by smtp.gmail.com with ESMTPSA id s14sm2704877pgo.14.2017.07.18.00.19.59 (version=TLS1 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-AES128-SHA bits=128/128); Tue, 18 Jul 2017 00:20:00 -0700 (PDT) Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="Apple-Mail=_84E82C15-38CC-4A50-BDA4-58A0D2CA5308" Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 9.3 \(3124\)) From: Mahesh Jethanandani In-Reply-To: Date: Tue, 18 Jul 2017 09:20:03 +0200 Cc: "netmod@ietf.org" Message-Id: References: To: "Sterne, Jason (Nokia - CA/Ottawa)" X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.3124) Archived-At: Subject: Re: [netmod] nmda-guidelines-01: value space for config vs state X-BeenThere: netmod@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 Precedence: list List-Id: NETMOD WG list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 18 Jul 2017 07:20:08 -0000 --Apple-Mail=_84E82C15-38CC-4A50-BDA4-58A0D2CA5308 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Jason, Following on the example I gave on the other thread here is what I see = for the admin/oper leafs. > On Jul 17, 2017, at 12:22 PM, Sterne, Jason (Nokia - CA/Ottawa) = wrote: >=20 > Hi all, > =20 > A note in Rob Wilton=E2=80=99s presentation today in rtgwg mentioned = something about consistency in the value space for config vs state = leafs. The NMDA approach results in the same leaf for both config & = state in many cases (at least for the cases where the separate config & = state leafs were only there to represent intended vs applied config). > =20 > But aren=E2=80=99t there some cases where the value space for state = will be different than the value space for config ? I=E2=80=99m = thinking of the basic admin/oper state for interfaces for example where = config may allow enable/disable but state may have additional values = like =E2=80=98testing=E2=80=99. If the config & state value spaces = aren=E2=80=99t 100% the same, are module designers recommended to create = a separate state leaf ? leaf administrative-state { type boolean { description =E2=80=9CWhen set to true, the interface is set to be administratively up. The actual state of the interface is reflected in the corresponding operational-state leaf.=E2=80=9D; } } leaf operational-state { config false; type enumeration { enum up; enum down; enum testing; enum negotiating; } } > =20 > Rgds, > Jason > _______________________________________________ > netmod mailing list > netmod@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/netmod = Mahesh Jethanandani mjethanandani@gmail.com --Apple-Mail=_84E82C15-38CC-4A50-BDA4-58A0D2CA5308 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/html; charset=utf-8 Jason,

Following on the example I gave on the other thread here is = what I see for the admin/oper leafs.

On = Jul 17, 2017, at 12:22 PM, Sterne, Jason (Nokia - CA/Ottawa) <jason.sterne@nokia.com> wrote:

Hi all,
 
A note in = Rob Wilton=E2=80=99s presentation today in rtgwg mentioned something = about consistency in the value space for config vs state leafs.  = The NMDA approach results in the same leaf for both config & state = in many cases (at least for the cases where the separate config & = state leafs were only there to represent intended vs applied = config).
 
But aren=E2=80=99t there some cases where the value space for = state will be different than the value space for config ?  I=E2=80=99= m thinking of the basic admin/oper state for interfaces for example = where config may allow enable/disable but state may have additional = values like =E2=80=98testing=E2=80=99.  If the config & state = value spaces aren=E2=80=99t 100% the same, are module designers = recommended to create a separate state leaf = ?

leaf = administrative-state {
  type boolean {
  =   description
      =E2=80=9CWhen set to = true, the interface is set to be
        = administratively up. The actual state of the
    =     interface is reflected in the = corresponding
        operational-state = leaf.=E2=80=9D;
  }
}

leaf operational-state {
  config = false;
  type enumeration {
    enum = up;
    enum down;
    enum = testing;
    enum negotiating;
  = }
}

 
Rgds,
Jason
_______________________________________________
netmod mailing = list
netmod@ietf.org
https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/netmod

Mahesh Jethanandani
mjethanandani@gmail.com



= --Apple-Mail=_84E82C15-38CC-4A50-BDA4-58A0D2CA5308-- From nobody Tue Jul 18 01:21:43 2017 Return-Path: X-Original-To: netmod@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: netmod@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5B41F120227 for ; Tue, 18 Jul 2017 01:21:42 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -4.2 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-4.2 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-2.3, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id W97HRK18ihR8 for ; Tue, 18 Jul 2017 01:21:40 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail.amsl.com (c8a.amsl.com [4.31.198.40]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher AECDH-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 4D396131D2B for ; Tue, 18 Jul 2017 01:21:36 -0700 (PDT) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by c8a.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id BEE481CA584; Tue, 18 Jul 2017 01:21:27 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com Received: from mail.amsl.com ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (c8a.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10026) with ESMTP id C4S6L21F9mar; Tue, 18 Jul 2017 01:21:27 -0700 (PDT) Received: from dhcp-9671.meeting.ietf.org (dhcp-9671.meeting.ietf.org [31.133.150.113]) by c8a.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id D75111CA580; Tue, 18 Jul 2017 01:21:26 -0700 (PDT) Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="Apple-Mail=_40FA4F8F-4FE8-40EA-88B3-F86DFCB6FA0C" Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 10.3 \(3273\)) From: William Lupton In-Reply-To: Date: Tue, 18 Jul 2017 10:21:33 +0200 Cc: NetMod WG Message-Id: <74C9F689-15EF-41AD-8F80-92BF2EDED095@broadband-forum.org> References: To: Mahesh Jethanandani X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.3273) Archived-At: Subject: Re: [netmod] ACL draft defines ether-type as a string X-BeenThere: netmod@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 Precedence: list List-Id: NETMOD WG list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 18 Jul 2017 08:21:42 -0000 --Apple-Mail=_40FA4F8F-4FE8-40EA-88B3-F86DFCB6FA0C Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Editorial: ethertype (no hyphen) seems to be more common than ether-type = (28 versus 11 matches in the YANG catalog, plus IEEE seem to use the = no-hyphen version). Also (even more editorial), I don=E2=80=99t see the need for the rather = distracting =E2=80=980x=E2=80=99 in the name, so would suggest = ethertype-XXXX (yes, I realise that this decision is in the IEEE = bailiwick). William > On 18 Jul 2017, at 08:21, Mahesh Jethanandani = wrote: >=20 > The issue of ether-type defined as a string was discussed with = participants from IEEE in IETF. It was generally agreed that since = ether-types are well known values, and centrally managed, that they be = defined as enumerations. There was some clarification sought by IEEE on = which values need to be published. It was suggested that ether-types = that are either private or do not have a protocol identified would be = named as ether-type-0xXXXX where 0xXXXX represents the value assigned. = All the remaining ether-types will be defined as enums with the well = known names.=20 >=20 > As far as the impact of that on the ACL draft is concerned, it will be = to remove all local definitions for ether-type from the draft, such as = the one below and instead use the definition from IEEE, whenever that is = done. It does however put a dependency on the IEEE model. >=20 > leaf ether-type { > type string { > pattern '[0-9a-fA-F]{4}'; > } > description > "The Ethernet Type (or Length) value represented > in the canonical order defined by IEEE 802. > The canonical representation uses lowercase > characters. >=20 > Note: This is not the most ideal way to define > ether-types. Ether-types are well known types > and are registered with RAC in IEEE. So they > should well defined types with values. For now > this model is defining it as a string. > There is a note out to IEEE that needs to be > turned into a liaison statement asking them to > define all ether-types for the industry to use."; > reference > "IEEE 802-2014 Clause 9.2"; > } > reference > "IEEE 802: IEEE Standard for Local and Metropolitan > Area Networks: Overview and Architecture."; > } --Apple-Mail=_40FA4F8F-4FE8-40EA-88B3-F86DFCB6FA0C Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/html; charset=utf-8 Editorial: ethertype (no hyphen) seems to be more common than = ether-type (28 versus 11 matches in the YANG catalog, plus IEEE seem to = use the no-hyphen version).

Also (even more editorial), I don=E2=80=99t see the need for = the rather distracting =E2=80=980x=E2=80=99 in the name, so would = suggest ethertype-XXXX (yes, I realise that this decision is in the IEEE = bailiwick).

William

On = 18 Jul 2017, at 08:21, Mahesh Jethanandani <mjethanandani@gmail.com> wrote:

The issue of = ether-type defined as a string was discussed with participants from IEEE = in IETF. It was generally agreed that since ether-types are well known = values, and centrally managed, that they be defined as enumerations. = There was some clarification sought by IEEE on which values need to be = published. It was suggested that ether-types that are either private or = do not have a protocol identified would be named as ether-type-0xXXXX = where 0xXXXX represents the value assigned. All the remaining = ether-types will be defined as enums with the well known = names. 

As far = as the impact of that on the ACL draft is concerned, it will be to = remove all local definitions for ether-type from the draft, such as the = one below and instead use the definition from IEEE, whenever that is = done. It does however put a dependency on the IEEE model.

    leaf ether-type {
      type string {
        pattern '[0-9a-fA-F]{4}';
      }
      description
        "The Ethernet Type (or Length) value represented
         in the canonical order defined by IEEE 802.
         The canonical representation uses lowercase
         characters.

         Note: This is not the most ideal way to define
         ether-types. Ether-types are well known types
         and are registered with RAC in IEEE. So they
         should well defined types with values. For now
         this model is defining it as a string.

         There is a note out to IEEE that needs to be
         turned into a liaison statement asking them to
         define all ether-types for the industry to use.";
      reference
        "IEEE 802-2014 Clause 9.2";
    }
    reference
      "IEEE 802: IEEE Standard for Local and Metropolitan
       Area Networks: Overview and Architecture.";
  }

= --Apple-Mail=_40FA4F8F-4FE8-40EA-88B3-F86DFCB6FA0C-- From nobody Tue Jul 18 01:26:42 2017 Return-Path: X-Original-To: netmod@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: netmod@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id CBBA9120227 for ; Tue, 18 Jul 2017 01:26:40 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.901 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.901 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, RP_MATCHES_RCVD=-0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id f-JzxyuSBOC4 for ; Tue, 18 Jul 2017 01:26:38 -0700 (PDT) Received: from atlas5.jacobs-university.de (atlas5.jacobs-university.de [212.201.44.20]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher AECDH-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 235EE131950 for ; Tue, 18 Jul 2017 01:26:38 -0700 (PDT) Received: from localhost (demetrius5.irc-it.jacobs-university.de [10.70.0.222]) by atlas5.jacobs-university.de (Postfix) with ESMTP id E68E799; Tue, 18 Jul 2017 10:26:36 +0200 (CEST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at jacobs-university.de Received: from atlas5.jacobs-university.de ([10.70.0.217]) by localhost (demetrius5.jacobs-university.de [10.70.0.222]) (amavisd-new, port 10032) with ESMTP id JLCnE1H6fcfW; Tue, 18 Jul 2017 10:26:35 +0200 (CEST) Received: from hermes.jacobs-university.de (hermes.jacobs-university.de [212.201.44.23]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (Client CN "hermes.jacobs-university.de", Issuer "Jacobs University CA - G01" (verified OK)) by atlas5.jacobs-university.de (Postfix) with ESMTPS; Tue, 18 Jul 2017 10:26:36 +0200 (CEST) Received: from localhost (demetrius3.jacobs-university.de [212.201.44.48]) by hermes.jacobs-university.de (Postfix) with ESMTP id C0359200AA; Tue, 18 Jul 2017 10:26:36 +0200 (CEST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at jacobs-university.de Received: from hermes.jacobs-university.de ([212.201.44.23]) by localhost (demetrius3.jacobs-university.de [212.201.44.32]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id HiT9zCofDLz8; Tue, 18 Jul 2017 10:26:36 +0200 (CEST) Received: from elstar.local (elstar.jacobs.jacobs-university.de [10.50.231.133]) by hermes.jacobs-university.de (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6BBBE200A8; Tue, 18 Jul 2017 10:26:36 +0200 (CEST) Received: by elstar.local (Postfix, from userid 501) id 0BBB63FF354C; Tue, 18 Jul 2017 10:26:35 +0200 (CEST) Date: Tue, 18 Jul 2017 10:26:35 +0200 From: Juergen Schoenwaelder To: Alex Campbell Cc: Kent Watsen , "netmod@ietf.org" Message-ID: <20170718082635.GA18279@elstar.local> Reply-To: Juergen Schoenwaelder Mail-Followup-To: Alex Campbell , Kent Watsen , "netmod@ietf.org" References: <91245764-587A-4F9C-B8F4-8A9A7E2BC9BB@juniper.net> <1500333639904.57913@Aviatnet.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <1500333639904.57913@Aviatnet.com> User-Agent: Mutt/1.6.0 (2016-04-01) Archived-At: Subject: Re: [netmod] WG Last Call for draft-ietf-netmod-syslog-model-15 X-BeenThere: netmod@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 Precedence: list List-Id: NETMOD WG list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 18 Jul 2017 08:26:41 -0000 On Mon, Jul 17, 2017 at 11:20:40PM +0000, Alex Campbell wrote: > I am considering to implement the data model in this draft. (dependent on business priorities of course) > I have reviewed this draft and found the following issues. > > * I see pattern-match is specified to use POSIX 1003.2 regular expressions. This is presumably for compatibility with existing implementations; however it is inconsistent with most of YANG (which is specified to use XPath regular expressions) - unless these are the same. The fact that the schema language uses a different regular expression language than the data model is by itself not a problem I think. What is potentially a problem is that RFC 5424 syslog messages are UTF-8 and hence the regular expression language adopted should be able to match on unicode characters. Does POSIX 1003.2 do that? (There also needs to be a normative reference to POSIX 1003.2 or whatever is finally adopted.) /js -- Juergen Schoenwaelder Jacobs University Bremen gGmbH Phone: +49 421 200 3587 Campus Ring 1 | 28759 Bremen | Germany Fax: +49 421 200 3103 From nobody Tue Jul 18 01:57:17 2017 Return-Path: X-Original-To: netmod@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: netmod@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id E8ACF131DC2; Tue, 18 Jul 2017 01:57:14 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.901 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.901 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 9nW33SGtBaoW; Tue, 18 Jul 2017 01:57:14 -0700 (PDT) Received: from eidolon.nox.tf (eidolon.nox.tf [IPv6:2a07:2ec0:2185::]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id DD91B131DB8; Tue, 18 Jul 2017 01:57:13 -0700 (PDT) Received: from equinox by eidolon.nox.tf with local (Exim 4.89) (envelope-from ) id 1dXOJb-003uEy-RT; Tue, 18 Jul 2017 10:57:12 +0200 Date: Tue, 18 Jul 2017 10:57:11 +0200 From: David Lamparter To: Juergen Schoenwaelder , draft-ietf-netmod-revised-datastores@ietf.org, netmod@ietf.org Message-ID: <20170718085711.GK773745@eidolon> References: <20170717172801.GI773745@eidolon> <20170717215149.GA17852@elstar.local> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit In-Reply-To: <20170717215149.GA17852@elstar.local> User-Agent: Mutt/1.5.24 (2015-08-30) Archived-At: Subject: Re: [netmod] NMDA indication of value "in use" vs. defaults X-BeenThere: netmod@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 Precedence: list List-Id: NETMOD WG list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 18 Jul 2017 08:57:15 -0000 Jürgen, On Mon, Jul 17, 2017 at 11:51:49PM +0200, Juergen Schoenwaelder wrote: > I am still not sure what the problem is. We proposed that the > datastore always reports the values that are in use, > whatever their origin is. This seems simple and clear if you want to > troubleshoot something. This is not about the value - this is about the separate single bit of information that answers the question "is this value in use?" My understanding is that the NMDA design wants to communicate this single bit of information to the client that retrieves data from the operational datastore. I'm arguing that this single bit of information should not be transported as "is the value present or absent?", because defaults specified in the model can interfere with the absence of values. > > If this is implemented in an older NETCONF server that does this > > unconditionally, this effectively breaks operational state retrieval > > even if the system software does provide correct data with or without > > defaults. The NETCONF server would just (validly) remove all values > > that are the same as the model's default -- which then the client would > > interpret as "these values are not in use". > > RFC 6243 was written before did exist and we propose > that always reports the values in use (regardless > whether they match defaults or not). Yes, you can make this work if you specify that the NETCONF server MUST NOT make any additions or removals regarding defaults for operational requests. I'm just saying this won't be robust. > > This, for me, lends the conclusion that this would be massively fragile, > > even if a specific combination could make it work. My position hence > > changes from "this doesn't work" to "please don't do this, even if it > > may work." > > Always reporting the value in use should be fine. If libraries mess up > the data it seems a library issue. Libraries should not mess around > with data. The data in data is the ground > truth of what the device is really doing, messing around with it > before passing it to an application is not recommended. Sure -- I'm not concerned about the value. I'm concerned I won't be able to tell whether the value is "in use". This is 2 error cases: - the value in use is equal to the model's default, and due to mangling it's misrepresented as "there is no value" / "the value is not in use" - the value is not in use, and due to mangling it's misrepresented as "the value in use happens to be the default value" > > The solution I would suggest would be to have "is the value in use?" as > > metadata just like the origin. It can either be a new value on the > > "datastore" identity (=> if a value is not in use, there is no way to > > report what datastore it came from), or alternatively it can be a > > separate metadata annotation (=> you can report not-in-use and still > > have the value and its origin - if that makes sense, which...) > > > > (I'm leaning towards adding "not-in-use" on the origin metadata > > annotation, as opposed to a separate boolean metadata annotation.) > > But if something is not in use, it may not even have a value. So I end > up reporting fake values for things that are not is use decorated with > metadata that these fake values are not in use? Does not sound very > efficient to me. I would actually suggest that the default for the _origin_metadata_ is "not-in-use", so you can in fact leave it out of the reply, and the client knows reliably that it's not in use -- even if something in the data path processes/interferes with defaults. Cheers, -David From nobody Tue Jul 18 05:50:20 2017 Return-Path: X-Original-To: netmod@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: netmod@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id C37AA12EC46; Tue, 18 Jul 2017 05:50:18 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.901 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.901 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, RP_MATCHES_RCVD=-0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id DFRYQ0sKWUHt; Tue, 18 Jul 2017 05:50:16 -0700 (PDT) Received: from atlas5.jacobs-university.de (atlas5.jacobs-university.de [212.201.44.20]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher AECDH-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 2153D129B10; Tue, 18 Jul 2017 05:50:16 -0700 (PDT) Received: from localhost (demetrius5.irc-it.jacobs-university.de [10.70.0.222]) by atlas5.jacobs-university.de (Postfix) with ESMTP id E3AE569; Tue, 18 Jul 2017 14:50:14 +0200 (CEST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at jacobs-university.de Received: from atlas5.jacobs-university.de ([10.70.0.217]) by localhost (demetrius5.jacobs-university.de [10.70.0.222]) (amavisd-new, port 10032) with ESMTP id srkDONqay-M2; Tue, 18 Jul 2017 14:50:12 +0200 (CEST) Received: from hermes.jacobs-university.de (hermes.jacobs-university.de [212.201.44.23]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (Client CN "hermes.jacobs-university.de", Issuer "Jacobs University CA - G01" (verified OK)) by atlas5.jacobs-university.de (Postfix) with ESMTPS; Tue, 18 Jul 2017 14:50:14 +0200 (CEST) Received: from localhost (demetrius1.jacobs-university.de [212.201.44.46]) by hermes.jacobs-university.de (Postfix) with ESMTP id BDE56200AD; Tue, 18 Jul 2017 14:50:14 +0200 (CEST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at jacobs-university.de Received: from hermes.jacobs-university.de ([212.201.44.23]) by localhost (demetrius1.jacobs-university.de [212.201.44.32]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id IVj8unvZgeKC; Tue, 18 Jul 2017 14:50:14 +0200 (CEST) Received: from elstar.local (elstar.jacobs.jacobs-university.de [10.50.231.133]) by hermes.jacobs-university.de (Postfix) with ESMTP id EB420200AA; Tue, 18 Jul 2017 14:50:13 +0200 (CEST) Received: by elstar.local (Postfix, from userid 501) id 996653FF3C4C; Tue, 18 Jul 2017 14:50:12 +0200 (CEST) Date: Tue, 18 Jul 2017 14:50:12 +0200 From: Juergen Schoenwaelder To: David Lamparter Cc: draft-ietf-netmod-revised-datastores@ietf.org, netmod@ietf.org Message-ID: <20170718125012.GA18449@elstar.local> Reply-To: Juergen Schoenwaelder Mail-Followup-To: David Lamparter , draft-ietf-netmod-revised-datastores@ietf.org, netmod@ietf.org References: <20170717172801.GI773745@eidolon> <20170717215149.GA17852@elstar.local> <20170718085711.GK773745@eidolon> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Disposition: inline X-Clacks-Overhead: GNU Terry Pratchett Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit In-Reply-To: <20170718085711.GK773745@eidolon> User-Agent: Mutt/1.6.0 (2016-04-01) Archived-At: Subject: Re: [netmod] NMDA indication of value "in use" vs. defaults X-BeenThere: netmod@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 Precedence: list List-Id: NETMOD WG list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 18 Jul 2017 12:50:19 -0000 On Tue, Jul 18, 2017 at 10:57:11AM +0200, David Lamparter wrote: > Jrgen, > > > On Mon, Jul 17, 2017 at 11:51:49PM +0200, Juergen Schoenwaelder wrote: > > I am still not sure what the problem is. We proposed that the > > datastore always reports the values that are in use, > > whatever their origin is. This seems simple and clear if you want to > > troubleshoot something. > > This is not about the value - this is about the separate single bit of > information that answers the question "is this value in use?" > > My understanding is that the NMDA design wants to communicate this > single bit of information to the client that retrieves data from the > operational datastore. Yes, 'in use' <=> 'there is a value' in (the conceptual datastore). > I'm arguing that this single bit of information should not be > transported as "is the value present or absent?", because defaults > specified in the model can interfere with the absence of values. They interfere (i) if you make them interfere or (ii) you have intermediaries that mess around with the data without telling you that they did so. We are trying to resolve (i) by definition of semantics and (ii) seems outside of what specifications can deal with. > > > If this is implemented in an older NETCONF server that does this > > > unconditionally, this effectively breaks operational state retrieval > > > even if the system software does provide correct data with or without > > > defaults. The NETCONF server would just (validly) remove all values > > > that are the same as the model's default -- which then the client would > > > interpret as "these values are not in use". > > > > RFC 6243 was written before did exist and we propose > > that always reports the values in use (regardless > > whether they match defaults or not). > > Yes, you can make this work if you specify that the NETCONF server MUST > NOT make any additions or removals regarding defaults for operational > requests. I'm just saying this won't be robust. This is what we are trying to specify. > > > This, for me, lends the conclusion that this would be massively fragile, > > > even if a specific combination could make it work. My position hence > > > changes from "this doesn't work" to "please don't do this, even if it > > > may work." > > > > Always reporting the value in use should be fine. If libraries mess up > > the data it seems a library issue. Libraries should not mess around > > with data. The data in data is the ground > > truth of what the device is really doing, messing around with it > > before passing it to an application is not recommended. > > Sure -- I'm not concerned about the value. I'm concerned I won't be > able to tell whether the value is "in use". This is 2 error cases: > > - the value in use is equal to the model's default, and due to mangling > it's misrepresented as "there is no value" / "the value is not in use" > - the value is not in use, and due to mangling it's misrepresented as > "the value in use happens to be the default value" I do not think server randomly mangle data. I am concerned about reporting 'fake' values for not in use leafs with metadata that such leafs are not in use. This seems pretty costly (there usually is lots of stuff not in use). > > > The solution I would suggest would be to have "is the value in use?" as > > > metadata just like the origin. It can either be a new value on the > > > "datastore" identity (=> if a value is not in use, there is no way to > > > report what datastore it came from), or alternatively it can be a > > > separate metadata annotation (=> you can report not-in-use and still > > > have the value and its origin - if that makes sense, which...) > > > > > > (I'm leaning towards adding "not-in-use" on the origin metadata > > > annotation, as opposed to a separate boolean metadata annotation.) > > > > But if something is not in use, it may not even have a value. So I end > > up reporting fake values for things that are not is use decorated with > > metadata that these fake values are not in use? Does not sound very > > efficient to me. > > I would actually suggest that the default for the _origin_metadata_ is > "not-in-use", so you can in fact leave it out of the reply, and the > client knows reliably that it's not in use -- even if something in the > data path processes/interferes with defaults. In XML, metadata is encoded as XML attributes so I need to ship an XML element to ship the XML attribute and hence I need a value (and an empty value might violate the YANG data type contract, so I need a fake value). This does not seem a good proposal to me. /js -- Juergen Schoenwaelder Jacobs University Bremen gGmbH Phone: +49 421 200 3587 Campus Ring 1 | 28759 Bremen | Germany Fax: +49 421 200 3103 From nobody Tue Jul 18 07:50:24 2017 Return-Path: X-Original-To: netmod@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: netmod@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id AB1131317CA; Tue, 18 Jul 2017 07:50:23 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.901 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.901 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id awn4oTjVxoqi; Tue, 18 Jul 2017 07:50:21 -0700 (PDT) Received: from eidolon.nox.tf (eidolon.nox.tf [IPv6:2a07:2ec0:2185::]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 22D5B127136; Tue, 18 Jul 2017 07:50:21 -0700 (PDT) Received: from equinox by eidolon.nox.tf with local (Exim 4.89) (envelope-from ) id 1dXTpL-004A9D-53; Tue, 18 Jul 2017 16:50:19 +0200 Date: Tue, 18 Jul 2017 16:50:19 +0200 From: David Lamparter To: draft-ietf-netmod-revised-datastores@ietf.org, netmod@ietf.org Message-ID: <20170718145019.GO773745@eidolon> References: <20170717172801.GI773745@eidolon> <20170717215149.GA17852@elstar.local> <20170718085711.GK773745@eidolon> <20170718125012.GA18449@elstar.local> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <20170718125012.GA18449@elstar.local> User-Agent: Mutt/1.5.24 (2015-08-30) Archived-At: Subject: Re: [netmod] NMDA indication of value "in use" vs. defaults X-BeenThere: netmod@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 Precedence: list List-Id: NETMOD WG list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 18 Jul 2017 14:50:24 -0000 On Tue, Jul 18, 2017 at 02:50:12PM +0200, Juergen Schoenwaelder wrote: > On Tue, Jul 18, 2017 at 10:57:11AM +0200, David Lamparter wrote: > > My understanding is that the NMDA design wants to communicate this > > single bit of information to the client that retrieves data from the > > operational datastore. > > Yes, 'in use' <=> 'there is a value' in (the conceptual > datastore). > > > I'm arguing that this single bit of information should not be > > transported as "is the value present or absent?", because defaults > > specified in the model can interfere with the absence of values. > > They interfere (i) if you make them interfere or (ii) you have > intermediaries that mess around with the data without telling you that > they did so. We are trying to resolve (i) by definition of semantics > and (ii) seems outside of what specifications can deal with. Well, I don't want to give people the rope to hang themselves with; I fully understand your position and it's correct by the letter, yet I uphold my objection rooted on philosopohical differences in design practice ;) > > > > If this is implemented in an older NETCONF server that does this > > > > unconditionally, this effectively breaks operational state retrieval > > > > even if the system software does provide correct data with or without > > > > defaults. The NETCONF server would just (validly) remove all values > > > > that are the same as the model's default -- which then the client would > > > > interpret as "these values are not in use". > > > > > > RFC 6243 was written before did exist and we propose > > > that always reports the values in use (regardless > > > whether they match defaults or not). > > > > Yes, you can make this work if you specify that the NETCONF server MUST > > NOT make any additions or removals regarding defaults for operational > > requests. I'm just saying this won't be robust. > > This is what we are trying to specify. > > > > > This, for me, lends the conclusion that this would be massively fragile, > > > > even if a specific combination could make it work. My position hence > > > > changes from "this doesn't work" to "please don't do this, even if it > > > > may work." > > > > > > Always reporting the value in use should be fine. If libraries mess up > > > the data it seems a library issue. Libraries should not mess around > > > with data. The data in data is the ground > > > truth of what the device is really doing, messing around with it > > > before passing it to an application is not recommended. > > > > Sure -- I'm not concerned about the value. I'm concerned I won't be > > able to tell whether the value is "in use". This is 2 error cases: > > > > - the value in use is equal to the model's default, and due to mangling > > it's misrepresented as "there is no value" / "the value is not in use" > > - the value is not in use, and due to mangling it's misrepresented as > > "the value in use happens to be the default value" > > I do not think server randomly mangle data. I am concerned about > reporting 'fake' values for not in use leafs with metadata that such > leafs are not in use. This seems pretty costly (there usually is lots > of stuff not in use). I'm not suggesting you make up fake values. [See below.] > > > > The solution I would suggest would be to have "is the value in use?" as > > > > metadata just like the origin. It can either be a new value on the > > > > "datastore" identity (=> if a value is not in use, there is no way to > > > > report what datastore it came from), or alternatively it can be a > > > > separate metadata annotation (=> you can report not-in-use and still > > > > have the value and its origin - if that makes sense, which...) > > > > > > > > (I'm leaning towards adding "not-in-use" on the origin metadata > > > > annotation, as opposed to a separate boolean metadata annotation.) > > > > > > But if something is not in use, it may not even have a value. So I end > > > up reporting fake values for things that are not is use decorated with > > > metadata that these fake values are not in use? Does not sound very > > > efficient to me. > > > > I would actually suggest that the default for the _origin_metadata_ is > > "not-in-use", so you can in fact leave it out of the reply, and the > > client knows reliably that it's not in use -- even if something in the > > data path processes/interferes with defaults. > > In XML, metadata is encoded as XML attributes so I need to ship an XML > element to ship the XML attribute and hence I need a value (and an > empty value might violate the YANG data type contract, so I need a > fake value). This does not seem a good proposal to me. Let me rephrase/develop my suggestion. - don't send anything for a value that's not in use. - specify that if a client can't find an origin attribute, e.g. because the entire tag is missing, it MUST assume "not-in-use" This implies: - data that actually is in use MUST always have an origin attribute, otherwise the client will go "not-in-use" This kinda forces people to do the right thing not only for not-in-use signaling, but also for the origin metadata. No easy way out in just not sending it, if you don't know you have to own up your amnesia and admit to "unknown". ... and with the current wording in the draft, it already suggests a value in all cases, since the last paragraph in in 4.7.3 is: In the case that a device cannot provide an accurate origin for a particular data node then it should use the origin "unknown". I'm just saying that to determine whether a value is in use, the data's consumer must look at the origin attribute (including its absence), not at the fact whether there is some value. -David From nobody Tue Jul 18 08:29:21 2017 Return-Path: X-Original-To: netmod@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: netmod@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id A1687131A69; Tue, 18 Jul 2017 08:29:18 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.901 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.901 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, RP_MATCHES_RCVD=-0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id G8wjygzLJy6E; Tue, 18 Jul 2017 08:29:17 -0700 (PDT) Received: from atlas5.jacobs-university.de (atlas5.jacobs-university.de [212.201.44.20]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher AECDH-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id A7A64127B60; Tue, 18 Jul 2017 08:29:16 -0700 (PDT) Received: from localhost (demetrius5.irc-it.jacobs-university.de [10.70.0.222]) by atlas5.jacobs-university.de (Postfix) with ESMTP id 791316E2; Tue, 18 Jul 2017 17:29:15 +0200 (CEST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at jacobs-university.de Received: from atlas5.jacobs-university.de ([10.70.0.217]) by localhost (demetrius5.jacobs-university.de [10.70.0.222]) (amavisd-new, port 10032) with ESMTP id OhxC4wEQH09b; Tue, 18 Jul 2017 17:29:13 +0200 (CEST) Received: from hermes.jacobs-university.de (hermes.jacobs-university.de [212.201.44.23]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (Client CN "hermes.jacobs-university.de", Issuer "Jacobs University CA - G01" (verified OK)) by atlas5.jacobs-university.de (Postfix) with ESMTPS; Tue, 18 Jul 2017 17:29:15 +0200 (CEST) Received: from localhost (demetrius1.jacobs-university.de [212.201.44.46]) by hermes.jacobs-university.de (Postfix) with ESMTP id 56FB6200AA; Tue, 18 Jul 2017 17:29:15 +0200 (CEST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at jacobs-university.de Received: from hermes.jacobs-university.de ([212.201.44.23]) by localhost (demetrius1.jacobs-university.de [212.201.44.32]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id JRPJt3rtfSFx; Tue, 18 Jul 2017 17:29:14 +0200 (CEST) Received: from elstar.local (elstar.jacobs.jacobs-university.de [10.50.231.133]) by hermes.jacobs-university.de (Postfix) with ESMTP id E10D6200A8; Tue, 18 Jul 2017 17:29:14 +0200 (CEST) Received: by elstar.local (Postfix, from userid 501) id 517343FF402F; Tue, 18 Jul 2017 17:29:14 +0200 (CEST) Date: Tue, 18 Jul 2017 17:29:14 +0200 From: Juergen Schoenwaelder To: David Lamparter Cc: draft-ietf-netmod-revised-datastores@ietf.org, netmod@ietf.org Message-ID: <20170718152914.GA18746@elstar.local> Reply-To: Juergen Schoenwaelder Mail-Followup-To: David Lamparter , draft-ietf-netmod-revised-datastores@ietf.org, netmod@ietf.org References: <20170717172801.GI773745@eidolon> <20170717215149.GA17852@elstar.local> <20170718085711.GK773745@eidolon> <20170718125012.GA18449@elstar.local> <20170718145019.GO773745@eidolon> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <20170718145019.GO773745@eidolon> User-Agent: Mutt/1.6.0 (2016-04-01) Archived-At: Subject: Re: [netmod] NMDA indication of value "in use" vs. defaults X-BeenThere: netmod@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 Precedence: list List-Id: NETMOD WG list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 18 Jul 2017 15:29:19 -0000 On Tue, Jul 18, 2017 at 04:50:19PM +0200, David Lamparter wrote: > Let me rephrase/develop my suggestion. > > - don't send anything for a value that's not in use. > - specify that if a client can't find an origin attribute, e.g. because > the entire tag is missing, it MUST assume "not-in-use" > This implies: > - data that actually is in use MUST always have an origin attribute, > otherwise the client will go "not-in-use" > > This kinda forces people to do the right thing not only for not-in-use > signaling, but also for the origin metadata. No easy way out in just > not sending it, if you don't know you have to own up your amnesia and > admit to "unknown". > > ... and with the current wording in the draft, it already suggests a > value in all cases, since the last paragraph in in 4.7.3 is: > In the case that a device cannot provide an accurate origin for a > particular data node then it should use the origin "unknown". > > I'm just saying that to determine whether a value is in use, the > data's consumer must look at the origin attribute (including its > absence), not at the fact whether there is some value. This is the relevant current text: Requests to retrieve nodes from always return the value in use if the node exists, regardless of any default value specified in the YANG module. If no value is returned for a given node, then this implies that the node is not used by the device. I am still unsure why the presence of an origin attribute adds value here. The last sentence clearly says 'if no value is returned for a given node, then this implies that the node is not used by the device.' FYI: There is another ongoing discussion whether origin metadata for config false nodes makes sense at all and one option considered right now is to have origin metadata only on config true nodes. If so, you can't overload the presence of origin metadata with another meaning. /js -- Juergen Schoenwaelder Jacobs University Bremen gGmbH Phone: +49 421 200 3587 Campus Ring 1 | 28759 Bremen | Germany Fax: +49 421 200 3103 From nobody Tue Jul 18 11:21:06 2017 Return-Path: X-Original-To: netmod@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: netmod@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id AFA9E129AD3 for ; Tue, 18 Jul 2017 11:21:04 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -14.523 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-14.523 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_HI=-5, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_H3=-0.01, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_WL=-0.01, RP_MATCHES_RCVD=-0.001, SPF_HELO_PASS=-0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, USER_IN_DEF_DKIM_WL=-7.5] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (1024-bit key) header.d=cisco.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id IGBriAoN0mQ7 for ; 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d="scan'208";a="455718266" Received: from alln-core-4.cisco.com ([173.36.13.137]) by alln-iport-5.cisco.com with ESMTP/TLS/DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA; 18 Jul 2017 18:21:00 +0000 Received: from XCH-ALN-015.cisco.com (xch-aln-015.cisco.com [173.36.7.25]) by alln-core-4.cisco.com (8.14.5/8.14.5) with ESMTP id v6IIL0T4001303 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Tue, 18 Jul 2017 18:21:00 GMT Received: from xch-aln-015.cisco.com (173.36.7.25) by XCH-ALN-015.cisco.com (173.36.7.25) with Microsoft SMTP Server (TLS) id 15.0.1210.3; Tue, 18 Jul 2017 13:21:00 -0500 Received: from xch-aln-015.cisco.com ([173.36.7.25]) by XCH-ALN-015.cisco.com ([173.36.7.25]) with mapi id 15.00.1210.000; Tue, 18 Jul 2017 13:21:00 -0500 From: "Clyde Wildes (cwildes)" To: Juergen Schoenwaelder , "Alex Campbell" CC: "netmod@ietf.org" Thread-Topic: [netmod] WG Last Call for draft-ietf-netmod-syslog-model-15 Thread-Index: AQHS90+tnxmaKupZ/kyeF+fon7bzlqJYswb2gADxToCAADC8AA== Date: Tue, 18 Jul 2017 18:20:59 +0000 Message-ID: References: <91245764-587A-4F9C-B8F4-8A9A7E2BC9BB@juniper.net> <1500333639904.57913@Aviatnet.com> <20170718082635.GA18279@elstar.local> In-Reply-To: <20170718082635.GA18279@elstar.local> Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-ms-exchange-messagesentrepresentingtype: 1 x-ms-exchange-transport-fromentityheader: Hosted x-originating-ip: [10.154.163.52] Content-Type: text/plain; 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LANG:en; spamdiagnosticoutput: 1:99 spamdiagnosticmetadata: NSPM Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="_000_HE1PR07MB0843056A990E261D12E1C4F49BA10HE1PR07MB0843eurp_" MIME-Version: 1.0 X-OriginatorOrg: nokia.com X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-originalarrivaltime: 18 Jul 2017 20:46:58.9574 (UTC) X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-fromentityheader: Hosted X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-id: 5d471751-9675-428d-917b-70f44f9630b0 X-MS-Exchange-Transport-CrossTenantHeadersStamped: HE1PR07MB3386 Archived-At: Subject: [netmod] revised-datastores-03: duplicate list entry from conventional + dynamic X-BeenThere: netmod@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 Precedence: list List-Id: NETMOD WG list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 18 Jul 2017 20:47:04 -0000 --_000_HE1PR07MB0843056A990E261D12E1C4F49BA10HE1PR07MB0843eurp_ Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hi all, The discussions about dynamic datastores in I2RS today made me wonder about= a scenario: What if a data model is supported in both conventional datast= ores and in a dynamic datastore (as well as being readable from the operati= onal datastore), and the same list entry (e.g. interface abc, but with some= different parms in the dynamic entry vs the config entry) has been created= in both the running and the dynamic DS. Only one of them can appear when reading the operational DS. I presume that it is up to the specification document of the dynamic DS to = define the collision resolution between dynamic & conventional. But based on the revised DS draft I believe it would be necessary for the s= ystem to keep/store both copies of 'interface abc' so that a wit= h source=3Ddynamic would return the dynamic version of interface abc while = a (or ) with source=3Drunning would return the conve= ntional version of interface abc. Do I have that correct ? I think that also implies that removing one of the copies could cause the '= re-installation' of the other (down to the app layer). This concept of storing multiple copies and re-installation is something I2= RS wants to avoid. But since they have declared that their scope only incl= udes the use of their models in the dynamic (ephemeral) DS, they won't have= that behavior. Rgds, Jason --_000_HE1PR07MB0843056A990E261D12E1C4F49BA10HE1PR07MB0843eurp_ Content-Type: text/html; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

Hi all,

 

The discussions about dynamic datastores in I2RS tod= ay made me wonder about a scenario:  What if a data model is supported= in both conventional datastores and in a dynamic datastore (as well as bei= ng readable from the operational datastore), and the same list entry (e.g. interface abc, but with some different parms= in the dynamic entry vs the config entry) has been created in both the run= ning and the dynamic DS. 

 

Only one of them can appear when reading the operati= onal DS.

 

I presume that it is up to the specification documen= t of the dynamic DS to define the collision resolution between dynamic &= ; conventional.

 

But based on the revised DS draft I believe it would= be necessary for the system to keep/store both copies of ‘interface = abc’ so that a <get-data> with source=3Ddynamic would return th= e dynamic version of interface abc while a <get-config> (or <get-data>) with source=3Drunning would return the conventional = version of interface abc.  Do I have that correct ?

 

I think that also implies that removing one of the c= opies could cause the ‘re-installation’ of the other (down to t= he app layer).

 

This concept of storing multiple copies and re-insta= llation is something I2RS wants to avoid.  But since they have declare= d that their scope only includes the use of their models in the dynamic (ep= hemeral) DS, they won’t have that behavior.

 

Rgds,

Jason

--_000_HE1PR07MB0843056A990E261D12E1C4F49BA10HE1PR07MB0843eurp_-- From nobody Tue Jul 18 14:11:00 2017 Return-Path: X-Original-To: netmod@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: netmod@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id B8F3912EB5F for ; Tue, 18 Jul 2017 14:10:59 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -14.502 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-14.502 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_HI=-5, RP_MATCHES_RCVD=-0.001, SPF_HELO_PASS=-0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, USER_IN_DEF_DKIM_WL=-7.5] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (1024-bit key) header.d=cisco.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id i1q4Cwp4ztS7 for ; Tue, 18 Jul 2017 14:10:57 -0700 (PDT) Received: from aer-iport-1.cisco.com (aer-iport-1.cisco.com [173.38.203.51]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher DHE-RSA-SEED-SHA (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 4F718127B73 for ; Tue, 18 Jul 2017 14:10:57 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/simple; d=cisco.com; i=@cisco.com; l=9556; q=dns/txt; s=iport; t=1500412257; x=1501621857; h=subject:to:references:from:message-id:date:mime-version: in-reply-to; bh=aw0QTVid5qbYPfdebRwEZy3jtqMjCWfH3O7wJ0qlztk=; b=WqmLAvGzevbkvsOJUGSp2iZ2LXdzVFD9c2NBRIHviLISif78nvSE0mZ8 X8tA7WSQ+7xLXwP2zfOIE1XV3Jkx/nCZqYAO2vS24bBQBz9SjCnsOgBKL S9Gsr6FjM8JtzwdabvfDcTlb7yOZyzjhPtF2RDKFulfKgYpv6OfJjzHbf A=; X-IronPort-Anti-Spam-Filtered: true X-IronPort-Anti-Spam-Result: =?us-ascii?q?A0BhAQCVeG5Z/xbLJq1cGwEBAQMBAQEJA?= =?us-ascii?q?QEBgm+BT4EUjgtzkHSQWIUsghEhAQqETE8ChBEYAQIBAQEBAQEBayiFGAEBAQE?= =?us-ascii?q?CAQEBK0EQCwsYLicwBgEMBgIBARuKCAgQsXAnilYBAQEBAQEBAQEBAQEBAQEBA?= =?us-ascii?q?QEBAQEYBYMog02CDIJ5il4FiVWIYYx+lBaLLocBjHqIXR84gQoxIQgbFUmFSIF?= =?us-ascii?q?QPjaIUwEBAQ?= X-IronPort-AV: E=Sophos;i="5.40,378,1496102400"; d="scan'208,217";a="695898487" Received: from aer-iport-nat.cisco.com (HELO aer-core-4.cisco.com) ([173.38.203.22]) by aer-iport-1.cisco.com with ESMTP/TLS/DHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384; 18 Jul 2017 21:10:53 +0000 Received: from [10.61.102.237] (dhcp-10-61-102-237.cisco.com [10.61.102.237]) by aer-core-4.cisco.com (8.14.5/8.14.5) with ESMTP id v6ILAqu2013538; Tue, 18 Jul 2017 21:10:53 GMT To: "Sterne, Jason (Nokia - CA/Ottawa)" , "netmod@ietf.org" References: From: Robert Wilton Message-ID: <46ea2dbb-00e1-e525-f8f2-383b211f2077@cisco.com> Date: Tue, 18 Jul 2017 23:10:52 +0200 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 10.0; WOW64; rv:52.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/52.2.1 MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="------------2939730B013A2D7069FB909B" Content-Language: en-US Archived-At: Subject: Re: [netmod] revised-datastores-03: duplicate list entry from conventional + dynamic X-BeenThere: netmod@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 Precedence: list List-Id: NETMOD WG list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 18 Jul 2017 21:11:00 -0000 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --------------2939730B013A2D7069FB909B Content-Type: text/plain; charset=windows-1252; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Hi Jason, Some thoughts inline ... On 18/07/2017 22:46, Sterne, Jason (Nokia - CA/Ottawa) wrote: > > Hi all, > > The discussions about dynamic datastores in I2RS today made me wonder > about a scenario: What if a data model is supported in both > conventional datastores and in a dynamic datastore (as well as being > readable from the operational datastore), and the same list entry > (e.g. interface abc, but with some different parms in the dynamic > entry vs the config entry) has been created in both the running and > the dynamic DS. > > Only one of them can appear when reading the operational DS. > Yes. > I presume that it is up to the specification document of the dynamic > DS to define the collision resolution between dynamic & conventional. > Yes. > But based on the revised DS draft I believe it would be necessary for > the system to keep/store both copies of interface abc so that a > with source=dynamic would return the dynamic version of > interface abc while a (or ) with source=running > would return the conventional version of interface abc. Do I have > that correct ? > Definitely yes for running. For dynamic, it would depend on the definition of the specific dynamic datastore, but likely yes. > I think that also implies that removing one of the copies could cause > the re-installation of the other (down to the app layer). > This would also depend on the definition of the specific dynamic datastore. Most likely, if the dynamic entry is removed, then the conventional configured value should be re-instated. However, I don't think that the reverse is necessarily true. E.g. in the dynamic datastore is I2RS then the initial config event would have failed if it was lower priority that conventional. > This concept of storing multiple copies and re-installation is > something I2RS wants to avoid. > This is perhaps more related to multiple I2RS clients rather than between I2RS and the conventional datastores. > But since they have declared that their scope only includes the use > of their models in the dynamic (ephemeral) DS, they wont have that > behavior. > > Rgds, > > Jason > Thanks, Rob > > > _______________________________________________ > netmod mailing list > netmod@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/netmod --------------2939730B013A2D7069FB909B Content-Type: text/html; charset=windows-1252 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit

Hi Jason,

Some thoughts inline ...


On 18/07/2017 22:46, Sterne, Jason (Nokia - CA/Ottawa) wrote:

Hi all,

The discussions about dynamic datastores in I2RS today made me wonder about a scenario: What if a data model is supported in both conventional datastores and in a dynamic datastore (as well as being readable from the operational datastore), and the same list entry (e.g. interface abc, but with some different parms in the dynamic entry vs the config entry) has been created in both the running and the dynamic DS.

Only one of them can appear when reading the operational DS.

Yes.

I presume that it is up to the specification document of the dynamic DS to define the collision resolution between dynamic & conventional.

Yes.

But based on the revised DS draft I believe it would be necessary for the system to keep/store both copies of interface abc so that a <get-data> with source=dynamic would return the dynamic version of interface abc while a <get-config> (or <get-data>) with source=running would return the conventional version of interface abc. Do I have that correct ?

Definitely yes for running. For dynamic, it would depend on the definition of the specific dynamic datastore, but likely yes.

I think that also implies that removing one of the copies could cause the re-installation of the other (down to the app layer).

This would also depend on the definition of the specific dynamic datastore.

Most likely, if the dynamic entry is removed, then the conventional configured value should be re-instated. However, I don't think that the reverse is necessarily true. E.g. in the dynamic datastore is I2RS then the initial config event would have failed if it was lower priority that conventional.

This concept of storing multiple copies and re-installation is something I2RS wants to avoid.

This is perhaps more related to multiple I2RS clients rather than between I2RS and the conventional datastores.

But since they have declared that their scope only includes the use of their models in the dynamic (ephemeral) DS, they wont have that behavior.

Rgds,

Jason


Thanks,
Rob



_______________________________________________
netmod mailing list
netmod@ietf.org
https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/netmod

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boundary="_000_HE1PR07MB0843D514D292B919A3D47E529BA10HE1PR07MB0843eurp_" MIME-Version: 1.0 X-OriginatorOrg: nokia.com X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-originalarrivaltime: 18 Jul 2017 22:10:27.8925 (UTC) X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-fromentityheader: Hosted X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-id: 5d471751-9675-428d-917b-70f44f9630b0 X-MS-Exchange-Transport-CrossTenantHeadersStamped: HE1PR07MB3162 Archived-At: Subject: Re: [netmod] revised-datastores-03: duplicate list entry from conventional + dynamic X-BeenThere: netmod@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 Precedence: list List-Id: NETMOD WG list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 18 Jul 2017 22:10:33 -0000 --_000_HE1PR07MB0843D514D292B919A3D47E529BA10HE1PR07MB0843eurp_ Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Thx for the quick thoughts Rob. I2RS has defined that a 'set' would fail within the dynamic DS but they did= n't really consider/specify that a 'set' to the dynamic DS could actually f= ail due to the existence of something in the conventional DSes. I suppose = a custom DS (like the i2rs ephemeral) can in theory define whatever behavio= r they want but it may be odd that something written to the dynamic DS fail= s when there isn't something higher prio in the dynamic DS itself. But someone can sort that out if they ever propose a model that is supporte= d both in a dynamic DS and in a conventional DS (assuming we don't want to = propose guidelines for that behavior in the revised DS draft). Rgds, Jason From: Robert Wilton [mailto:rwilton@cisco.com] Sent: Tuesday, July 18, 2017 23:11 To: Sterne, Jason (Nokia - CA/Ottawa) ; netmod@ietf= .org Subject: Re: [netmod] revised-datastores-03: duplicate list entry from conv= entional + dynamic Hi Jason, Some thoughts inline ... On 18/07/2017 22:46, Sterne, Jason (Nokia - CA/Ottawa) wrote: Hi all, The discussions about dynamic datastores in I2RS today made me wonder about= a scenario: What if a data model is supported in both conventional datast= ores and in a dynamic datastore (as well as being readable from the operati= onal datastore), and the same list entry (e.g. interface abc, but with some= different parms in the dynamic entry vs the config entry) has been created= in both the running and the dynamic DS. Only one of them can appear when reading the operational DS. Yes. I presume that it is up to the specification document of the dynamic DS to = define the collision resolution between dynamic & conventional. Yes. But based on the revised DS draft I believe it would be necessary for the s= ystem to keep/store both copies of 'interface abc' so that a wit= h source=3Ddynamic would return the dynamic version of interface abc while = a (or ) with source=3Drunning would return the conve= ntional version of interface abc. Do I have that correct ? Definitely yes for running. For dynamic, it would depend on the definition= of the specific dynamic datastore, but likely yes. I think that also implies that removing one of the copies could cause the '= re-installation' of the other (down to the app layer). This would also depend on the definition of the specific dynamic datastore. Most likely, if the dynamic entry is removed, then the conventional configu= red value should be re-instated. However, I don't think that the reverse i= s necessarily true. E.g. in the dynamic datastore is I2RS then the initial= config event would have failed if it was lower priority that conventional. This concept of storing multiple copies and re-installation is something I2= RS wants to avoid. This is perhaps more related to multiple I2RS clients rather than between I= 2RS and the conventional datastores. But since they have declared that their scope only includes the use of th= eir models in the dynamic (ephemeral) DS, they won't have that behavior. Rgds, Jason Thanks, Rob _______________________________________________ netmod mailing list netmod@ietf.org https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/netmod --_000_HE1PR07MB0843D514D292B919A3D47E529BA10HE1PR07MB0843eurp_ Content-Type: text/html; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

Thx for the quick t= houghts Rob.

 

I2RS has defined th= at a ‘set’ would fail within the dynamic DS but they didn’= ;t really consider/specify that a ‘set’ to the dynamic DS could= actually fail due to the existence of something in the conventional DSes.  I suppose a custom DS (like the i2rs ephemeral) can in theory = define whatever behavior they want but it may be odd that something written= to the dynamic DS fails when there isn’t something higher prio in th= e dynamic DS itself. 

 

But someone can sor= t that out if they ever propose a model that is supported both in a dynamic= DS and in a conventional DS (assuming we don’t want to propose guide= lines for that behavior in the revised DS draft).

 

Rgds,

Jason

 

From:= Robert Wilton [mailto:rwilton@cisco.com]
Sent: Tuesday, July 18, 2017 23:11
To: Sterne, Jason (Nokia - CA/Ottawa) <jason.sterne@nokia.com>= ; netmod@ietf.org
Subject: Re: [netmod] revised-datastores-03: duplicate list entry fr= om conventional + dynamic

 

Hi Jason,

Some thoughts inline ...

 

On 18/07/2017 22:46, Sterne, Jason (Nokia - CA/Ottaw= a) wrote:

Hi all,

 

The discussions about dynamic datastores in I2RS tod= ay made me wonder about a scenario:  What if a data model is supported= in both conventional datastores and in a dynamic datastore (as well as bei= ng readable from the operational datastore), and the same list entry (e.g. interface abc, but with some different parms= in the dynamic entry vs the config entry) has been created in both the run= ning and the dynamic DS. 

 

Only one of them can appear when reading the operati= onal DS.

Yes.


 

I presume that it is up to the specification documen= t of the dynamic DS to define the collision resolution between dynamic &= ; conventional.

Yes.


 

But based on the revised DS draft I believe it would= be necessary for the system to keep/store both copies of ‘interface = abc’ so that a <get-data> with source=3Ddynamic would return th= e dynamic version of interface abc while a <get-config> (or <get-data>) with source=3Drunning would return the conventional = version of interface abc.  Do I have that correct ?

Definitely yes for running.  For dynamic, i= t would depend on the definition of the specific dynamic datastore, but lik= ely yes.


 

I think that also implies that removing one of the c= opies could cause the ‘re-installation’ of the other (down to t= he app layer).

This would also depend on the definition of the = specific dynamic datastore.

Most likely, if the dynamic entry is removed, then the conventional configu= red value should be re-instated.  However, I don't think that the reve= rse is necessarily true.  E.g. in the dynamic datastore is I2RS then t= he initial config event would have failed if it was lower priority that conventional.


 

This concept of storing multiple copies and re-insta= llation is something I2RS wants to avoid.

This is perhaps more related to multiple I2RS cl= ients rather than between I2RS and the conventional datastores.


  But since they have declared that their scope= only includes the use of their models in the dynamic (ephemeral) DS, they = won’t have that behavior.

 

Rgds,

Jason


Thanks,
Rob





_______________________________________________
netmod mailing list
netmod@ietf.org

https://www.i=
etf.org/mailman/listinfo/netmod

 

--_000_HE1PR07MB0843D514D292B919A3D47E529BA10HE1PR07MB0843eurp_-- From nobody Tue Jul 18 15:29:44 2017 Return-Path: X-Original-To: netmod@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: netmod@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id B8AE3128BA2 for ; Tue, 18 Jul 2017 15:29:42 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.901 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.901 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, RP_MATCHES_RCVD=-0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id G_-M_3vzp4Mm for ; Tue, 18 Jul 2017 15:29:41 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail-send.aviatnet.com (mail-send.aviatnet.com [192.147.115.54]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id B8657128990 for ; Tue, 18 Jul 2017 15:29:41 -0700 (PDT) From: Alex Campbell To: Mahesh Jethanandani , NetMod WG Thread-Topic: [netmod] ACL draft defines ether-type as a string Thread-Index: AQHS/44cCs2FIO7gKUC3wRhxhZFB0KJaK0DU Date: Tue, 18 Jul 2017 22:29:40 +0000 Message-ID: <1500416980342.21019@Aviatnet.com> References: In-Reply-To: Accept-Language: en-NZ, en-US Content-Language: en-NZ X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-ms-exchange-transport-fromentityheader: Hosted x-originating-ip: [10.15.6.10] Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="_000_150041698034221019Aviatnetcom_" MIME-Version: 1.0 Archived-At: Subject: Re: [netmod] ACL draft defines ether-type as a string X-BeenThere: netmod@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 Precedence: list List-Id: NETMOD WG list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 18 Jul 2017 22:29:43 -0000 --_000_150041698034221019Aviatnetcom_ Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Doesn't this mean that if a new protocol is defined, then it won't be usabl= e in ACLs until the server's data model is upgraded? (And with many devices= , that is quite likely never) ________________________________ From: netmod on behalf of Mahesh Jethanandani Sent: Tuesday, 18 July 2017 6:21 p.m. To: NetMod WG Subject: [netmod] ACL draft defines ether-type as a string The issue of ether-type defined as a string was discussed with participants= from IEEE in IETF. It was generally agreed that since ether-types are well= known values, and centrally managed, that they be defined as enumerations.= There was some clarification sought by IEEE on which values need to be pub= lished. It was suggested that ether-types that are either private or do not= have a protocol identified would be named as ether-type-0xXXXX where 0xXXX= X represents the value assigned. All the remaining ether-types will be defi= ned as enums with the well known names. As far as the impact of that on the ACL draft is concerned, it will be to r= emove all local definitions for ether-type from the draft, such as the one = below and instead use the definition from IEEE, whenever that is done. It d= oes however put a dependency on the IEEE model. leaf ether-type { type string { pattern '[0-9a-fA-F]{4}'; } description "The Ethernet Type (or Length) value represented in the canonical order defined by IEEE 802. The canonical representation uses lowercase characters. Note: This is not the most ideal way to define ether-types. Ether-types are well known types and are registered with RAC in IEEE. So they should well defined types with values. For now this model is defining it as a string. There is a note out to IEEE that needs to be turned into a liaison statement asking them to define all ether-types for the industry to use."; reference "IEEE 802-2014 Clause 9.2"; } reference "IEEE 802: IEEE Standard for Local and Metropolitan Area Networks: Overview and Architecture."; } Mahesh Jethanandani mjethanandani@gmail.com --_000_150041698034221019Aviatnetcom_ Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

Doesn't this mean that if a new protocol is defined, then it won't be us= able in ACLs until the server's data model is upgraded? (And with many devi= ces, that is quite likely never)


From: netmod <netmod-bo= unces@ietf.org> on behalf of Mahesh Jethanandani <mjethanandani@gmail= .com>
Sent: Tuesday, 18 July 2017 6:21 p.m.
To: NetMod WG
Subject: [netmod] ACL draft defines ether-type as a string
 
The issue of ether-type defined as a string was discussed with partici= pants from IEEE in IETF. It was generally agreed that since ether-types are= well known values, and centrally managed, that they be defined as enumerat= ions. There was some clarification sought by IEEE on which values need to be published. It was suggested that= ether-types that are either private or do not have a protocol identified w= ould be named as ether-type-0xXXXX where 0xXXXX represents the value assign= ed. All the remaining ether-types will be defined as enums with the well known names. 

As far as the impact of that on the ACL draft is concerned,= it will be to remove all local definitions for ether-type from the draft, = such as the one below and instead use the definition from IEEE, whenever th= at is done. It does however put a dependency on the IEEE model.

    leaf ether-type {=0A=
      type string {=0A=
        pattern '[0-9a-fA-F]{4}';=0A=
      }=0A=
      description=0A=
        "The Ethernet Type (or Length) value represented=0A=
         in the canonical order defined by IEEE 802.=0A=
         The canonical representation uses lowercase=0A=
         characters.=0A=
=0A=
         Note: This is not the most ideal way to define=0A=
         ether-types. Ether-types are well known types=0A=
         and are registered with RAC in IEEE. So they=0A=
         should well defined types with values. For now=0A=
         this model is defining it as a string.=0A=

         There is a note out to IEEE that=
 needs to be=0A=
         turned into a liaison statement asking them to=0A=
         define all ether-types for the industry to use.";=0A=
      reference=0A=
        "IEEE 802-2014 Clause 9.2";=0A=
    }=0A=
    reference=0A=
      "IEEE 802: IEEE Standard for Local and Metropolitan=0A=
       Area Networks: Overview and Architecture.";=0A=
  }

Mahesh Jethanandani
mjeth= anandani@gmail.com



--_000_150041698034221019Aviatnetcom_-- From nobody Tue Jul 18 22:03:29 2017 Return-Path: X-Original-To: netmod@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: netmod@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6C890126CC4 for ; Tue, 18 Jul 2017 22:03:27 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.998 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.998 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=gmail.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id w_UFmQ21EgVr for ; Tue, 18 Jul 2017 22:03:25 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail-pf0-x229.google.com (mail-pf0-x229.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:400e:c00::229]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 4C4A4124217 for ; Tue, 18 Jul 2017 22:03:25 -0700 (PDT) Received: by mail-pf0-x229.google.com with SMTP id o88so15249118pfk.3 for ; Tue, 18 Jul 2017 22:03:25 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20161025; h=mime-version:subject:from:in-reply-to:date:cc:message-id:references :to; bh=lH22TYtUW0BUm3lDTUUEek+6hyKmxYahoaScUeRvq6A=; b=SEvxkf+HypHdz/RbcgUq44jg8/1S1S+Viyr36H+S7Mt26JReH7R5TFBsx4oRdDUDPw yL854tSWgA8o8nik6RQW/CclCjRUfc8aGC3fI8HduW89YzL1re+n2phYuF/jBF+HOOq6 gW62DzK0HmbwwPKFPk4OrwsGwEr42VabVwe2oFJfOzbvXSE1EMkd8QxJQAqkMBuhJcvr zqfsnoMvUA+OfQhuj03f6LbFOAkFEEPNU357iuMUBFWmItkI64n19nrKFFgkQvr5tMEn FgvoxcpAi026OWnkL0lHWB5olBI15izm8ENjhAVdAjW3DMdUcs770hIlqJdC8fjonezz mk6A== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:subject:from:in-reply-to:date:cc :message-id:references:to; bh=lH22TYtUW0BUm3lDTUUEek+6hyKmxYahoaScUeRvq6A=; b=rhXgtX2pCg45CBfDNVPYM4EkWX8iihilWb6YiVdfEl5qMn6AmuvyZtfofWAGgeU3O+ kYbtRUtysDCki3dPpGu7gvnR8Sz7FgkGccGhCtg3kr1kyHB/Q2k3xM2kMAwOV9PYNES3 NEBs/YbzfVg+TahXl47Zwyjwg5FvvSS+QbY3SvNn11+laxWNTnb1rHbqCM8E9o3Y5JwR F6isr0WxQOwW9+rSD5k4iBlZ4pvbTriA/A8XRRwSXCiKIwNp3SjS6UQpYITX+NHxDBNY JOvagwtGOMYdcvGiA0FiJEAcunczPLLcr25w8XIje+4b7X4UhvebIMwAJ1VBsYxLhxw0 eTfg== X-Gm-Message-State: AIVw113buB3arVVQRQ6ELM1yViqDKgfMejfXqeqhaCpBjqy01OdtHpVk sgzKWRUMM0wx8A== X-Received: by 10.98.152.86 with SMTP id q83mr1138958pfd.149.1500440604924; Tue, 18 Jul 2017 22:03:24 -0700 (PDT) Received: from [10.24.20.224] ([128.107.241.174]) by smtp.gmail.com with ESMTPSA id s206sm8521615pfs.55.2017.07.18.22.03.22 (version=TLS1 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-AES128-SHA bits=128/128); Tue, 18 Jul 2017 22:03:23 -0700 (PDT) Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="Apple-Mail=_8A81CD9E-82C8-4239-B4BC-3FB04F8B3BDB" Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 9.3 \(3124\)) From: Mahesh Jethanandani In-Reply-To: <1500416980342.21019@Aviatnet.com> Date: Wed, 19 Jul 2017 07:03:29 +0200 Cc: NetMod WG Message-Id: References: <1500416980342.21019@Aviatnet.com> To: Alex Campbell X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.3124) Archived-At: Subject: Re: [netmod] ACL draft defines ether-type as a string X-BeenThere: netmod@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 Precedence: list List-Id: NETMOD WG list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 19 Jul 2017 05:03:27 -0000 --Apple-Mail=_8A81CD9E-82C8-4239-B4BC-3FB04F8B3BDB Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Alex, One of the suggestions to deal with that came from Martin in trying to = define it as: typedef ethertype { type union { type ieee-ethertype:ethertype-enum; type uint16; // or a hex-based number } } where ieee-ethertype would be defined by IEEE as suggested below. But = Acee felt that would delay the deployment of the ieee-types model. > On Jul 11, 2017, at 9:28 PM, Acee Lindem (acee) = wrote: > This would work but it would delay completion on definition of the = ieee-types model. Is that what folks want? > On Jul 19, 2017, at 12:29 AM, Alex Campbell = wrote: >=20 > Doesn't this mean that if a new protocol is defined, then it won't be = usable in ACLs until the server's data model is upgraded? (And with many = devices, that is quite likely never) >=20 > From: netmod on behalf of Mahesh = Jethanandani > Sent: Tuesday, 18 July 2017 6:21 p.m. > To: NetMod WG > Subject: [netmod] ACL draft defines ether-type as a string > =20 > The issue of ether-type defined as a string was discussed with = participants from IEEE in IETF. It was generally agreed that since = ether-types are well known values, and centrally managed, that they be = defined as enumerations. There was some clarification sought by IEEE on = which values need to be published. It was suggested that ether-types = that are either private or do not have a protocol identified would be = named as ether-type-0xXXXX where 0xXXXX represents the value assigned. = All the remaining ether-types will be defined as enums with the well = known names.=20 >=20 > As far as the impact of that on the ACL draft is concerned, it will be = to remove all local definitions for ether-type from the draft, such as = the one below and instead use the definition from IEEE, whenever that is = done. It does however put a dependency on the IEEE model. >=20 > leaf ether-type { > type string { > pattern '[0-9a-fA-F]{4}'; > } > description > "The Ethernet Type (or Length) value represented > in the canonical order defined by IEEE 802. > The canonical representation uses lowercase > characters. >=20 > Note: This is not the most ideal way to define > ether-types. Ether-types are well known types > and are registered with RAC in IEEE. So they > should well defined types with values. For now > this model is defining it as a string. > There is a note out to IEEE that needs to be > turned into a liaison statement asking them to > define all ether-types for the industry to use."; > reference > "IEEE 802-2014 Clause 9.2"; > } > reference > "IEEE 802: IEEE Standard for Local and Metropolitan > Area Networks: Overview and Architecture."; > } >=20 > Mahesh Jethanandani > mjethanandani@gmail.com >=20 >=20 >=20 >=20 Mahesh Jethanandani mjethanandani@gmail.com --Apple-Mail=_8A81CD9E-82C8-4239-B4BC-3FB04F8B3BDB Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/html; charset=iso-8859-1 Alex,

One = of the suggestions to deal with that came from Martin in trying to = define it as:

    typedef =
ethertype {
      type union {
        type ieee-ethertype:ethertype-enum;
        type uint16; // or a hex-based number
      }
    }
where ieee-ethertype would be defined = by IEEE as suggested below. But Acee felt that would delay the = deployment of the ieee-types model.


On = Jul 11, 2017, at 9:28 PM, Acee Lindem (acee) <acee@cisco.com> = wrote:
This = would work but it would delay completion on definition of the ieee-types = model.

Is that what folks want?

On Jul 19, 2017, at 12:29 AM, Alex Campbell = <Alex.Campbell@Aviatnet.com> wrote:

Doesn't this mean that if a new protocol is defined, then it = won't be usable in ACLs until the server's data model is upgraded? (And = with many devices, that is quite likely never)

From: netmod <netmod-bounces@ietf.org> on behalf of Mahesh = Jethanandani <mjethanandani@gmail.com>
Sent: Tuesday, 18 July 2017 6:21 = p.m.
To: NetMod WG
Subject: [netmod] ACL draft defines = ether-type as a string
 
The issue of ether-type defined as a string was discussed = with participants from IEEE in IETF. It was generally agreed that since = ether-types are well known values, and centrally managed, that they be = defined as enumerations. There was some clarification sought by IEEE on = which values need to be published. It was suggested that ether-types = that are either private or do not have a protocol identified would be = named as ether-type-0xXXXX where 0xXXXX represents the value assigned. = All the remaining ether-types will be defined as enums with the well = known names. 

As = far as the impact of that on the ACL draft is concerned, it will be to = remove all local definitions for ether-type from the draft, such as the = one below and instead use the definition from IEEE, whenever that is = done. It does however put a dependency on the IEEE model.

    leaf ether-type {
      type string {
        pattern '[0-9a-fA-F]{4}';
      }
      description
        "The Ethernet Type (or Length) value represented
         in the canonical order defined by IEEE 802.
         The canonical representation uses lowercase
         characters.

         Note: This is not the most ideal way to define
         ether-types. Ether-types are well known types
         and are registered with RAC in IEEE. So they
         should well defined types with values. For now
         this model is defining it as a string.

         There is a =
note out to IEEE that needs to be
         turned into a liaison statement asking them to
         define all ether-types for the industry to use.";
      reference
        "IEEE 802-2014 Clause 9.2";
    }
    reference
      "IEEE 802: IEEE Standard for Local and Metropolitan
       Area Networks: Overview and Architecture.";
  }

Mahesh Jethanandani
mjethanandani@gmail.com





Mahesh Jethanandani
mjethanandani@gmail.com



= --Apple-Mail=_8A81CD9E-82C8-4239-B4BC-3FB04F8B3BDB-- From nobody Tue Jul 18 22:42:11 2017 Return-Path: X-Original-To: netmod@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: netmod@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 84E82129A92 for ; Tue, 18 Jul 2017 22:42:09 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.999 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.999 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=gmail.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id RYiK1Rn4LfUu for ; Tue, 18 Jul 2017 22:42:07 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail-pg0-x230.google.com (mail-pg0-x230.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:400e:c05::230]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id C8438126CC4 for ; Tue, 18 Jul 2017 22:42:07 -0700 (PDT) Received: by mail-pg0-x230.google.com with SMTP id 125so1605331pgi.3 for ; Tue, 18 Jul 2017 22:42:07 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20161025; h=mime-version:subject:from:in-reply-to:date:cc :content-transfer-encoding:message-id:references:to; bh=WcCiiL23f1Eoy87uJ62B2652UqkHGifpzz21z9hLe6U=; b=K/0+AFpRrgwpaDNlkob+qBm7KbJwP2eNJsSQG6WSirfKp+AqqTbzVfuyVZ8SdvBG1c jnetYiNK9vyHvtnFiUxCIHLhT5TkqCsjN9q+qLlxyHoTG0AEo+fWAC08eO/32DOIHbv0 j/0BNPIinPWnbswOrHHf8ZJYTlfGu44hFxslqbBlZgIfGwNO/XpZTkn1JN782COxwh3w 4mHCP6AIyBEOnLRKJInC/ceM6yvcgOhgpBEBQjvrcVd/RNimagzdMc4K/fqxtX8jKQOz WrjRbEjwP+QvszN/im3teHZY1/OZKGoEc4+2nCLZD2poA2m2N7gjKpiW37J7EH+5uZsn GC7Q== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:subject:from:in-reply-to:date:cc :content-transfer-encoding:message-id:references:to; bh=WcCiiL23f1Eoy87uJ62B2652UqkHGifpzz21z9hLe6U=; b=VbxEtAMxKkFPfcmS18lSCaAVOXwhjo9GG1OiW6xbUTDs3KgykaepyKYwobVJj/LFAm 74qPGG4Vv0EJBCBfBlnud1nSG1aGwLUk8p5YsVYV70c8FgDGCjl4Q63QQ1OKvTmx9T4r 0lExUH8KentRWVUwgjM6WPGHcNCIlqPhV66zYrQja0gJCxgWH1CdQH8mO78TsYdHnEGE /UNhLhjubVmRGZ6WOxrB03KZNHMO79o1H/qKYay0hXujWRQt41lWAdhjBpCreMAtFMOx GJO83yNwUiXGXgVhFdcWG8Ud5R6dFdE+00ywzEe/G3kFVNTsj816E/aXuz/HRD+YhovZ mCRg== X-Gm-Message-State: AIVw111z0mHDhKow3t5XlxeCm4hBTpF9jw8sd7+2CLahSPw0oL6al5GD qdYWpkB5u1WNVYK9Y2hLdw== X-Received: by 10.99.121.77 with SMTP id u74mr1284258pgc.107.1500442927406; Tue, 18 Jul 2017 22:42:07 -0700 (PDT) Received: from ?IPv6:2001:420:c0c8:1002::41? ([2001:420:c0c8:1002::41]) by smtp.gmail.com with ESMTPSA id u184sm1450302pfb.37.2017.07.18.22.42.05 (version=TLS1 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-AES128-SHA bits=128/128); Tue, 18 Jul 2017 22:42:06 -0700 (PDT) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 9.3 \(3124\)) From: Mahesh Jethanandani In-Reply-To: <3CA05746-FC13-468B-A1EC-4AC1C9082964@cisco.com> Date: Wed, 19 Jul 2017 07:42:13 +0200 Cc: netmod@ietf.org Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Message-Id: References: <3CA05746-FC13-468B-A1EC-4AC1C9082964@cisco.com> To: Joe Clarke X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.3124) Archived-At: Subject: Re: [netmod] Feedback on ietf-access-control-list X-BeenThere: netmod@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 Precedence: list List-Id: NETMOD WG list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 19 Jul 2017 05:42:10 -0000 Joe, > On Jul 17, 2017, at 6:02 PM, Joe Clarke wrote: >=20 > I=E2=80=99ve read the latest -11 draft, and I have three comments. = I=E2=80=99ve been trying to follow the schema changes and make sure I = can properly get my head around them in order to spot any obvious = shortcomings. The example in the draft is helpful (as most examples = are). However, in the latest draft, it seems that the example has = drifted from what the model specifies. Noted. We will fix it. >=20 > I want to make sure I=E2=80=99m not missing something. The current = example text is: >=20 > > > ietf-access-control-list"> > > sample-ipv4-acl > ipv4 > > > rule1 > > > 10.10.10.1/24 > > > 11.11.11.1/24 > > > > > > > tcp > > > > > > >=20 > But I believe in the current model, it should be: >=20 > > > ietf-access-control-list"> > > sample-ipv4-acl > ipv4-acl > > > rule1 > > > > 10.10.10.1/24 > > > 11.11.11.1/24 > > > tcp > > > > > > > > > > > >=20 > Based on the presentation, this helps with the typing, and this makes = sense to me. >=20 > =3D=3D=3D >=20 > Should there be a default for =E2=80=9Clogging=E2=80=9D? Currently, = it=E2=80=99s defined to be an optional boolean without a default. One = could infer that if it=E2=80=99s not present, logging is disabled, but = the text does not make that explicit. I think it would be good to make = this default false. Agreed. Will add default and update the description. >=20 > =3D=3D=3D >=20 > While I see in the appendix uses for acl-oper-data, it is not clear = from the model or main draft text what this would be used for. Again, I = inferred what the appendix did, but perhaps there could be some main = draft text that speaks to this container explicitly. Gathering of statistics has been identified as an open issue, opened in = GitHub and a separate thread started on netmod. Will identify the = solution we are looking for in that thread. Thanks. >=20 > Joe >=20 > _______________________________________________ > netmod mailing list > netmod@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/netmod Mahesh Jethanandani mjethanandani@gmail.com From nobody Tue Jul 18 22:50:47 2017 Return-Path: X-Original-To: netmod@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: netmod@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id BDA46129A97 for ; Tue, 18 Jul 2017 22:50:46 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.9 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.9 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, RP_MATCHES_RCVD=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id oV8NFLEn6Cdm for ; Tue, 18 Jul 2017 22:50:41 -0700 (PDT) Received: from atlas5.jacobs-university.de (atlas5.jacobs-university.de [212.201.44.20]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher AECDH-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 1DB9E1274D0 for ; Tue, 18 Jul 2017 22:50:41 -0700 (PDT) Received: from localhost (demetrius5.irc-it.jacobs-university.de [10.70.0.222]) by atlas5.jacobs-university.de (Postfix) with ESMTP id E0A6E4C6; Wed, 19 Jul 2017 07:50:39 +0200 (CEST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at jacobs-university.de Received: from atlas5.jacobs-university.de ([10.70.0.217]) by localhost (demetrius5.jacobs-university.de [10.70.0.222]) (amavisd-new, port 10032) with ESMTP id DLlNKOyLm_7V; Wed, 19 Jul 2017 07:50:37 +0200 (CEST) Received: from hermes.jacobs-university.de (hermes.jacobs-university.de [212.201.44.23]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (Client CN "hermes.jacobs-university.de", Issuer "Jacobs University CA - G01" (verified OK)) by atlas5.jacobs-university.de (Postfix) with ESMTPS; Wed, 19 Jul 2017 07:50:39 +0200 (CEST) Received: from localhost (demetrius2.jacobs-university.de [212.201.44.47]) by hermes.jacobs-university.de (Postfix) with ESMTP id BD514200AD; Wed, 19 Jul 2017 07:50:39 +0200 (CEST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at jacobs-university.de Received: from hermes.jacobs-university.de ([212.201.44.23]) by localhost (demetrius2.jacobs-university.de [212.201.44.32]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 6A_FcSy_Q0JU; Wed, 19 Jul 2017 07:50:39 +0200 (CEST) Received: from elstar.local (elstar.jacobs.jacobs-university.de [10.50.231.133]) by hermes.jacobs-university.de (Postfix) with ESMTP id 14025200AA; Wed, 19 Jul 2017 07:50:39 +0200 (CEST) Received: by elstar.local (Postfix, from userid 501) id E06A23FF4B45; Wed, 19 Jul 2017 07:50:38 +0200 (CEST) Date: Wed, 19 Jul 2017 07:50:38 +0200 From: Juergen Schoenwaelder To: Alex Campbell Cc: Mahesh Jethanandani , NetMod WG Message-ID: <20170719055038.GA19325@elstar.local> Reply-To: Juergen Schoenwaelder Mail-Followup-To: Alex Campbell , Mahesh Jethanandani , NetMod WG References: <1500416980342.21019@Aviatnet.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <1500416980342.21019@Aviatnet.com> User-Agent: Mutt/1.6.0 (2016-04-01) Archived-At: Subject: Re: [netmod] ACL draft defines ether-type as a string X-BeenThere: netmod@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 Precedence: list List-Id: NETMOD WG list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 19 Jul 2017 05:50:47 -0000 It may even mean that they plan to change ether-type-0xXXXX to foo once 0xXXXX is allocated to foo, which would be a problem. It seems a union of a uint16 and an enum can be more robust. type union { type uint16; type enumeration { enum ipv4 { value 0x0800; description "Internet Protocol version 4 (IPv4)"; reference "RFC 791: Internet Protocol" } } } A caveat is that the canonical representation of a uint16 is decimal (and YANG today has no way to control that), which may be a bit inconvenient here. Perhaps the description clause should overwrite this. There is probably also a need to remember implementors that the canonical representation of the union retains the notation, that is, if I write a numeric value (i.e., if I write '0x800' I get back the numeric value 2048 but if I write the enum value 'ipv4' I get back the enum 'ipv4' and not a numeric value. I have also found a definition in [1] that uses a string with a pattern to match a different notation for ether type numeric values. typedef ethertype-type { type string { pattern '[0-9a-fA-F]{2}-[0-9a-fA-F]{2}'; } description "The EtherType value represented in the canonical order defined by IEEE 802. The canonical representation uses uppercase characters."; reference "IEEE 802-2014 Clause 9.2"; } While this may be more compliant to IEEE 802-2014 Clause 9.2, having some type that easily resolves to a number may be more desirable in practice. [1] https://github.com/YangModels/yang/blob/master/standard/ieee/802.1/draft/ieee802-dot1q-types.yang /js PS: Writing definitions for seemingly simple types can be fun. On Tue, Jul 18, 2017 at 10:29:40PM +0000, Alex Campbell wrote: > Doesn't this mean that if a new protocol is defined, then it won't be usable in ACLs until the server's data model is upgraded? (And with many devices, that is quite likely never) > > > ________________________________ > From: netmod on behalf of Mahesh Jethanandani > Sent: Tuesday, 18 July 2017 6:21 p.m. > To: NetMod WG > Subject: [netmod] ACL draft defines ether-type as a string > > The issue of ether-type defined as a string was discussed with participants from IEEE in IETF. It was generally agreed that since ether-types are well known values, and centrally managed, that they be defined as enumerations. There was some clarification sought by IEEE on which values need to be published. It was suggested that ether-types that are either private or do not have a protocol identified would be named as ether-type-0xXXXX where 0xXXXX represents the value assigned. All the remaining ether-types will be defined as enums with the well known names. > > As far as the impact of that on the ACL draft is concerned, it will be to remove all local definitions for ether-type from the draft, such as the one below and instead use the definition from IEEE, whenever that is done. It does however put a dependency on the IEEE model. > > > leaf ether-type { > type string { > pattern '[0-9a-fA-F]{4}'; > } > description > "The Ethernet Type (or Length) value represented > in the canonical order defined by IEEE 802. > The canonical representation uses lowercase > characters. > > Note: This is not the most ideal way to define > ether-types. Ether-types are well known types > and are registered with RAC in IEEE. So they > should well defined types with values. For now > this model is defining it as a string. > > > There is a note out to IEEE that needs to be > turned into a liaison statement asking them to > define all ether-types for the industry to use."; > reference > "IEEE 802-2014 Clause 9.2"; > } > reference > "IEEE 802: IEEE Standard for Local and Metropolitan > Area Networks: Overview and Architecture."; > } > > Mahesh Jethanandani > mjethanandani@gmail.com > > > > _______________________________________________ > netmod mailing list > netmod@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/netmod -- Juergen Schoenwaelder Jacobs University Bremen gGmbH Phone: +49 421 200 3587 Campus Ring 1 | 28759 Bremen | Germany Fax: +49 421 200 3103 From nobody Tue Jul 18 23:18:54 2017 Return-Path: X-Original-To: netmod@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: netmod@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0D46812EB2B for ; Tue, 18 Jul 2017 23:18:52 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -14.491 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-14.491 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_HI=-5, RP_MATCHES_RCVD=-0.001, SPF_HELO_PASS=-0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, T_KAM_HTML_FONT_INVALID=0.01, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001, USER_IN_DEF_DKIM_WL=-7.5] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (1024-bit key) header.d=cisco.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id LOxuoqN5hYA3 for ; Tue, 18 Jul 2017 23:18:50 -0700 (PDT) Received: from aer-iport-4.cisco.com (aer-iport-4.cisco.com [173.38.203.54]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher DHE-RSA-SEED-SHA (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 59B8B127369 for ; Tue, 18 Jul 2017 23:18:49 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/simple; d=cisco.com; i=@cisco.com; l=19241; q=dns/txt; s=iport; t=1500445129; x=1501654729; h=subject:to:references:from:message-id:date:mime-version: in-reply-to; bh=gvKoHiJenVif1hrTPRfUeoQIJ4+2c894UT2Lqw1f9yM=; b=a+b1d6Thr9qvX1klKT7z+URaHM10tA5KWQ/7E1htfGSFQnOYefnBCOR+ R9jzKZzbZuP9q9RfMPdrystj+8tQAZBbtNh49QzCqiCQlh4JT9kYRZgAg bnwbgKrFiFIQ6uBDfuJ8yaX8azzmPssRVLsZGAxCqdZXhmBjRPehcKZEd c=; X-IronPort-Anti-Spam-Filtered: true X-IronPort-Anti-Spam-Result: =?us-ascii?q?A0C6AACB+G5Z/xbLJq1cGgEBAQECAQEBA?= =?us-ascii?q?QgBAQEBgm8+gRGBFI4Lc5B4lgSCESEBCoRMTwKEFBgBAgEBAQEBAQFrKIUYAQE?= =?us-ascii?q?BAQMBAStBGwsRBAEBAScHJx8JCAYBDAYCAQEbihAQsW8nil0BAQEBAQEBAQEBA?= =?us-ascii?q?QEBAQEBAQEBAQEYBYMog02BYSuCeYUghT4BBIlWGohHhQyHc5QXiy6HAYx6iF4?= =?us-ascii?q?fOIEKMSEIGxVJhUiBUD42iFMBAQE?= X-IronPort-AV: E=Sophos;i="5.40,379,1496102400"; d="scan'208,217";a="656179390" Received: from aer-iport-nat.cisco.com (HELO aer-core-2.cisco.com) ([173.38.203.22]) by aer-iport-4.cisco.com with ESMTP/TLS/DHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384; 19 Jul 2017 06:18:44 +0000 Received: from [10.61.102.237] (dhcp-10-61-102-237.cisco.com [10.61.102.237]) by aer-core-2.cisco.com (8.14.5/8.14.5) with ESMTP id v6J6IiwO004731; Wed, 19 Jul 2017 06:18:44 GMT To: "Sterne, Jason (Nokia - CA/Ottawa)" , "netmod@ietf.org" References: <46ea2dbb-00e1-e525-f8f2-383b211f2077@cisco.com> From: Robert Wilton Message-ID: <63d43067-f6cf-5ff5-16d7-21a999694b39@cisco.com> Date: Wed, 19 Jul 2017 08:18:44 +0200 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 10.0; WOW64; rv:52.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/52.2.1 MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="------------3D951A6331215DE3317E0DA8" Content-Language: en-US Archived-At: Subject: Re: [netmod] revised-datastores-03: duplicate list entry from conventional + dynamic X-BeenThere: netmod@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 Precedence: list List-Id: NETMOD WG list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 19 Jul 2017 06:18:52 -0000 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --------------3D951A6331215DE3317E0DA8 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=windows-1252; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit I think that it was in the discussion of priorities later on, where all configuration in is effectively assigned a single priority by I2RS so that it can be compared with any incoming I2RS config events. If the incoming I2RS config is higher priority then any other I2RS config, and it is higher than the intended config priority then it effectively overwrites the current configuration. If I2RS config is displaced then the appropriate I2RS client is notified that their config has been removed, so that they an take action if required. But if the incoming I2RS config is lower then either intended or other I2RS config then the config operation fails and is rejected. IIRC (from previous discussions), incoming intended configuration will always overwrite any conflicting I2RS configuration (regardless of priority), with the I2RS client notified that the config has been removed. All of this should be explained in whichever I2RS draft defines their I2RS specific dynamic datastore. I don't think that we can anything about this in the revised datatstores draft because I don't think that the config resolution between dynamic and intended is necessarily always the same - the behaviour depends on the specific definition of the dynamic datastore. All the datastores draft can state is that when a dynamic datastore is defined it should also define how the config merges in, which is covered by appendix section A.3 of the draft. Thanks, Rob On 19/07/2017 00:10, Sterne, Jason (Nokia - CA/Ottawa) wrote: > > Thx for the quick thoughts Rob. > > I2RS has defined that a set would fail within the dynamic DS but > they didnt really consider/specify that a set to the dynamic DS > could actually fail due to the existence of something in the > conventional DSes. I suppose a custom DS (like the i2rs ephemeral) > can in theory define whatever behavior they want but it may be odd > that something written to the dynamic DS fails when there isnt > something higher prio in the dynamic DS itself. > > But someone can sort that out if they ever propose a model that is > supported both in a dynamic DS and in a conventional DS (assuming we > dont want to propose guidelines for that behavior in the revised DS > draft). > > Rgds, > > Jason > > *From:*Robert Wilton [mailto:rwilton@cisco.com] > *Sent:* Tuesday, July 18, 2017 23:11 > *To:* Sterne, Jason (Nokia - CA/Ottawa) ; > netmod@ietf.org > *Subject:* Re: [netmod] revised-datastores-03: duplicate list entry > from conventional + dynamic > > Hi Jason, > > Some thoughts inline ... > > On 18/07/2017 22:46, Sterne, Jason (Nokia - CA/Ottawa) wrote: > > Hi all, > > The discussions about dynamic datastores in I2RS today made me > wonder about a scenario: What if a data model is supported in both > conventional datastores and in a dynamic datastore (as well as > being readable from the operational datastore), and the same list > entry (e.g. interface abc, but with some different parms in the > dynamic entry vs the config entry) has been created in both the > running and the dynamic DS. > > Only one of them can appear when reading the operational DS. > > Yes. > > > I presume that it is up to the specification document of the > dynamic DS to define the collision resolution between dynamic & > conventional. > > Yes. > > > But based on the revised DS draft I believe it would be necessary > for the system to keep/store both copies of interface abc so > that a with source=dynamic would return the dynamic > version of interface abc while a (or ) with > source=running would return the conventional version of interface > abc. Do I have that correct ? > > Definitely yes for running. For dynamic, it would depend on the > definition of the specific dynamic datastore, but likely yes. > > > I think that also implies that removing one of the copies could > cause the re-installation of the other (down to the app layer). > > This would also depend on the definition of the specific dynamic > datastore. > > Most likely, if the dynamic entry is removed, then the conventional > configured value should be re-instated. However, I don't think that > the reverse is necessarily true. E.g. in the dynamic datastore is > I2RS then the initial config event would have failed if it was lower > priority that conventional. > > > This concept of storing multiple copies and re-installation is > something I2RS wants to avoid. > > This is perhaps more related to multiple I2RS clients rather than > between I2RS and the conventional datastores. > > > But since they have declared that their scope only includes the > use of their models in the dynamic (ephemeral) DS, they wont have > that behavior. > > Rgds, > > Jason > > > Thanks, > Rob > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > netmod mailing list > > netmod@ietf.org > > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/netmod > --------------3D951A6331215DE3317E0DA8 Content-Type: text/html; charset=windows-1252 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit

I think that it was in the discussion of priorities later on, where all configuration in <intended> is effectively assigned a single priority by I2RS so that it can be compared with any incoming I2RS config events.

If the incoming I2RS config is higher priority then any other I2RS config, and it is higher than the intended config priority then it effectively overwrites the current configuration. If I2RS config is displaced then the appropriate I2RS client is notified that their config has been removed, so that they an take action if required.

But if the incoming I2RS config is lower then either intended or other I2RS config then the config operation fails and is rejected.

IIRC (from previous discussions), incoming intended configuration will always overwrite any conflicting I2RS configuration (regardless of priority), with the I2RS client notified that the config has been removed.

All of this should be explained in whichever I2RS draft defines their I2RS specific dynamic datastore.

I don't think that we can anything about this in the revised datatstores draft because I don't think that the config resolution between dynamic and intended is necessarily always the same - the behaviour depends on the specific definition of the dynamic datastore. All the datastores draft can state is that when a dynamic datastore is defined it should also define how the config merges in, which is covered by appendix section A.3 of the draft.

Thanks,
Rob


On 19/07/2017 00:10, Sterne, Jason (Nokia - CA/Ottawa) wrote:

Thx for the quick thoughts Rob.

I2RS has defined that a set would fail within the dynamic DS but they didnt really consider/specify that a set to the dynamic DS could actually fail due to the existence of something in the conventional DSes. I suppose a custom DS (like the i2rs ephemeral) can in theory define whatever behavior they want but it may be odd that something written to the dynamic DS fails when there isnt something higher prio in the dynamic DS itself.

But someone can sort that out if they ever propose a model that is supported both in a dynamic DS and in a conventional DS (assuming we dont want to propose guidelines for that behavior in the revised DS draft).

Rgds,

Jason

From: Robert Wilton [mailto:rwilton@cisco.com]
Sent: Tuesday, July 18, 2017 23:11
To: Sterne, Jason (Nokia - CA/Ottawa) <jason.sterne@nokia.com>; netmod@ietf.org
Subject: Re: [netmod] revised-datastores-03: duplicate list entry from conventional + dynamic

Hi Jason,

Some thoughts inline ...

On 18/07/2017 22:46, Sterne, Jason (Nokia - CA/Ottawa) wrote:

Hi all,

The discussions about dynamic datastores in I2RS today made me wonder about a scenario: What if a data model is supported in both conventional datastores and in a dynamic datastore (as well as being readable from the operational datastore), and the same list entry (e.g. interface abc, but with some different parms in the dynamic entry vs the config entry) has been created in both the running and the dynamic DS.

Only one of them can appear when reading the operational DS.

Yes.


I presume that it is up to the specification document of the dynamic DS to define the collision resolution between dynamic & conventional.

Yes.


But based on the revised DS draft I believe it would be necessary for the system to keep/store both copies of interface abc so that a <get-data> with source=dynamic would return the dynamic version of interface abc while a <get-config> (or <get-data>) with source=running would return the conventional version of interface abc. Do I have that correct ?

Definitely yes for running. For dynamic, it would depend on the definition of the specific dynamic datastore, but likely yes.


I think that also implies that removing one of the copies could cause the re-installation of the other (down to the app layer).

This would also depend on the definition of the specific dynamic datastore.

Most likely, if the dynamic entry is removed, then the conventional configured value should be re-instated. However, I don't think that the reverse is necessarily true. E.g. in the dynamic datastore is I2RS then the initial config event would have failed if it was lower priority that conventional.


This concept of storing multiple copies and re-installation is something I2RS wants to avoid.

This is perhaps more related to multiple I2RS clients rather than between I2RS and the conventional datastores.


But since they have declared that their scope only includes the use of their models in the dynamic (ephemeral) DS, they wont have that behavior.

Rgds,

Jason


Thanks,
Rob





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netmod mailing list
netmod@ietf.org
https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/netmod


--------------3D951A6331215DE3317E0DA8-- From nobody Tue Jul 18 23:37:14 2017 Return-Path: X-Original-To: netmod@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: netmod@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id BE4E812ECCB for ; Tue, 18 Jul 2017 23:37:12 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -14.502 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-14.502 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_HI=-5, RP_MATCHES_RCVD=-0.001, SPF_HELO_PASS=-0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001, USER_IN_DEF_DKIM_WL=-7.5] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (1024-bit key) header.d=cisco.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id thGjh4MPgBVV for ; Tue, 18 Jul 2017 23:37:11 -0700 (PDT) Received: from aer-iport-4.cisco.com (aer-iport-4.cisco.com [173.38.203.54]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher DHE-RSA-SEED-SHA (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id DF7BD12ECB3 for ; Tue, 18 Jul 2017 23:37:10 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/simple; d=cisco.com; i=@cisco.com; l=5141; q=dns/txt; s=iport; t=1500446231; x=1501655831; h=subject:to:references:from:message-id:date:mime-version: in-reply-to:content-transfer-encoding; bh=+BW1F71MmgfGxLWwsvGuQRvy55EkfbN/U8goMKmyEKk=; b=dEqiCSNoFG/IoHyf/XTPz6vthz7DUOlLZRKVxKDv3KE9by3u7LwtLNSO H0MtgcTBEkGrDftyp7IVOPHg2oebKNE/kuhT1uvDPkeGRb7Bz7J8k/H35 xpHJ+krWXRYUPXN2tY0Xxyq7zVe6kJXgd+inA+zvi+21L+OMfNuGKxUH7 o=; X-IronPort-Anti-Spam-Filtered: true X-IronPort-Anti-Spam-Result: =?us-ascii?q?A0CMAAA5/W5Z/xbLJq1cGQEBAQEBAQEBA?= =?us-ascii?q?QEBBwEBAQEBhD6BFI4Lc5B4iC6NVoIRIQ2ESk8ChBUYAQIBAQEBAQEBayiFGAE?= =?us-ascii?q?BAQEDAQEhFTYbCxEBAwEBAQICIwMCAiEGHwMGCAYBDAYCAQGKEwMVEK85giaHM?= =?us-ascii?q?Q2DRgEBAQEBAQEBAQEBAQEBAQEBAQEBARgFgQuCHYNNggyCeYJXgX0JgyCCYQE?= =?us-ascii?q?El0OHODuHS4NKhBKEcIsuhwGMCnCIXh84gQoxIQgbFUmHGD42AYYVgj0BAQE?= X-IronPort-AV: E=Sophos;i="5.40,380,1496102400"; d="scan'208";a="656179637" Received: from aer-iport-nat.cisco.com (HELO aer-core-1.cisco.com) ([173.38.203.22]) by aer-iport-4.cisco.com with ESMTP/TLS/DHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384; 19 Jul 2017 06:37:06 +0000 Received: from [10.61.102.237] (dhcp-10-61-102-237.cisco.com [10.61.102.237]) by aer-core-1.cisco.com (8.14.5/8.14.5) with ESMTP id v6J6b6aR005772; Wed, 19 Jul 2017 06:37:06 GMT To: Alex Campbell , Mahesh Jethanandani , NetMod WG References: <1500416980342.21019@Aviatnet.com> <20170719055038.GA19325@elstar.local> From: Robert Wilton Message-ID: <07ee9a53-bed7-00a2-9cfa-604eef5c0f7b@cisco.com> Date: Wed, 19 Jul 2017 08:37:06 +0200 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 10.0; WOW64; rv:52.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/52.2.1 MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: <20170719055038.GA19325@elstar.local> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Language: en-US Archived-At: Subject: Re: [netmod] ACL draft defines ether-type as a string X-BeenThere: netmod@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 Precedence: list List-Id: NETMOD WG list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 19 Jul 2017 06:37:13 -0000 I like the union approach. I'm not sure that we really want IEEE to have to define an enum entry for every possible Ethertype value. This just means that implementations probably ends up with another large mapping table where 99% of it is just noise. So I would suggest that 'named ethertypes' are restricted to the set of current ones in standard use that people care about, and allow vendors to request that their specific ones be added if required. +1 to the description describing the canonical format. Thanks, Rob On 19/07/2017 07:50, Juergen Schoenwaelder wrote: > It may even mean that they plan to change ether-type-0xXXXX to foo > once 0xXXXX is allocated to foo, which would be a problem. It seems > a union of a uint16 and an enum can be more robust. > > type union { > type uint16; > type enumeration { > enum ipv4 { > value 0x0800; > description > "Internet Protocol version 4 (IPv4)"; > reference > "RFC 791: Internet Protocol" > } > } > } > > A caveat is that the canonical representation of a uint16 is decimal > (and YANG today has no way to control that), which may be a bit > inconvenient here. Perhaps the description clause should overwrite > this. There is probably also a need to remember implementors that the > canonical representation of the union retains the notation, that is, > if I write a numeric value (i.e., if I write '0x800' I get back the > numeric value 2048 but if I write the enum value 'ipv4' I get back the > enum 'ipv4' and not a numeric value. > > I have also found a definition in [1] that uses a string with a > pattern to match a different notation for ether type numeric values. > > typedef ethertype-type { > type string { > pattern '[0-9a-fA-F]{2}-[0-9a-fA-F]{2}'; > } > description > "The EtherType value represented in the canonical order defined > by IEEE 802. The canonical representation uses uppercase > characters."; > reference > "IEEE 802-2014 Clause 9.2"; > } > > While this may be more compliant to IEEE 802-2014 Clause 9.2, having > some type that easily resolves to a number may be more desirable in > practice. > > [1] https://github.com/YangModels/yang/blob/master/standard/ieee/802.1/draft/ieee802-dot1q-types.yang > > /js > > PS: Writing definitions for seemingly simple types can be fun. > > On Tue, Jul 18, 2017 at 10:29:40PM +0000, Alex Campbell wrote: >> Doesn't this mean that if a new protocol is defined, then it won't be usable in ACLs until the server's data model is upgraded? (And with many devices, that is quite likely never) >> >> >> ________________________________ >> From: netmod on behalf of Mahesh Jethanandani >> Sent: Tuesday, 18 July 2017 6:21 p.m. >> To: NetMod WG >> Subject: [netmod] ACL draft defines ether-type as a string >> >> The issue of ether-type defined as a string was discussed with participants from IEEE in IETF. It was generally agreed that since ether-types are well known values, and centrally managed, that they be defined as enumerations. There was some clarification sought by IEEE on which values need to be published. It was suggested that ether-types that are either private or do not have a protocol identified would be named as ether-type-0xXXXX where 0xXXXX represents the value assigned. All the remaining ether-types will be defined as enums with the well known names. >> >> As far as the impact of that on the ACL draft is concerned, it will be to remove all local definitions for ether-type from the draft, such as the one below and instead use the definition from IEEE, whenever that is done. It does however put a dependency on the IEEE model. >> >> >> leaf ether-type { >> type string { >> pattern '[0-9a-fA-F]{4}'; >> } >> description >> "The Ethernet Type (or Length) value represented >> in the canonical order defined by IEEE 802. >> The canonical representation uses lowercase >> characters. >> >> Note: This is not the most ideal way to define >> ether-types. Ether-types are well known types >> and are registered with RAC in IEEE. So they >> should well defined types with values. For now >> this model is defining it as a string. >> >> >> There is a note out to IEEE that needs to be >> turned into a liaison statement asking them to >> define all ether-types for the industry to use."; >> reference >> "IEEE 802-2014 Clause 9.2"; >> } >> reference >> "IEEE 802: IEEE Standard for Local and Metropolitan >> Area Networks: Overview and Architecture."; >> } >> >> Mahesh Jethanandani >> mjethanandani@gmail.com >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> netmod mailing list >> netmod@ietf.org >> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/netmod > From nobody Tue Jul 18 23:43:50 2017 Return-Path: X-Original-To: netmod@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: netmod@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6AC531317A1 for ; Tue, 18 Jul 2017 23:43:48 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -14.522 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-14.522 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_HI=-5, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_H3=-0.01, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_WL=-0.01, RP_MATCHES_RCVD=-0.001, SPF_HELO_PASS=-0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001, USER_IN_DEF_DKIM_WL=-7.5] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (1024-bit key) header.d=cisco.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id yClv0Qqe-7tf for ; Tue, 18 Jul 2017 23:43:47 -0700 (PDT) Received: from alln-iport-2.cisco.com (alln-iport-2.cisco.com [173.37.142.89]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher DHE-RSA-SEED-SHA (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 5FCE712ECB4 for ; Tue, 18 Jul 2017 23:43:47 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/simple; d=cisco.com; i=@cisco.com; l=1140; q=dns/txt; s=iport; t=1500446627; x=1501656227; h=from:to:cc:subject:date:message-id:in-reply-to: references:mime-version:content-transfer-encoding; bh=rs7PuawgTBhjVnmi2BGnxnTbJlqXZSqnHJiNoUP7tUM=; b=huqZa3GKjWQFkDRCc/LzM4yKqFvDHKRmKauS+w5VGUblBJMUqHfeCbFs pMRLV8a/nUYWOOl85kpqcDEa4BrtlssW921mRot77E/x7JFRSuMNjv4XE z+g+Hw9W0As5OxbzoRvORJcav/oKH+t8yh8xGiGyVwx0pYyBNJsLj13TO M=; X-IronPort-Anti-Spam-Filtered: true X-IronPort-Anti-Spam-Result: =?us-ascii?q?A0AcAgBU/m5Z/5ldJa1SChoBAQEBAgEBA?= =?us-ascii?q?QEIAQEBAYNagXifdpgVhT4JAoNWQxQBAgEBAQEBAQFrKIUYAQEBAQIBIw8BBUE?= =?us-ascii?q?FCwsOCgICGQ0CAlcGExuKDAivPYImiwQBAQEBAQEBAQEBAQEBAQEBAQEBAQEdg?= =?us-ascii?q?QuCHYNNggyCeYRCgzswgjEBBJ82AoIoiGuJAoIMiSIjhl6JRowSNiGBCnUVSRI?= =?us-ascii?q?BhQAcggMkNohTAQEB?= X-IronPort-AV: E=Sophos;i="5.40,380,1496102400"; d="scan'208";a="452772614" Received: from rcdn-core-2.cisco.com ([173.37.93.153]) by alln-iport-2.cisco.com with ESMTP/TLS/DHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384; 19 Jul 2017 06:43:46 +0000 Received: from [10.82.172.223] ([10.82.172.223]) by rcdn-core-2.cisco.com (8.14.5/8.14.5) with ESMTP id v6J6hi6j024857 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=AES256-GCM-SHA384 bits=256 verify=NO); Wed, 19 Jul 2017 06:43:46 GMT From: "Joe Clarke" To: "Mahesh Jethanandani" Cc: netmod@ietf.org Date: Wed, 19 Jul 2017 02:43:38 -0400 Message-ID: <1BE0B0C5-FD9C-469D-802D-5DD2B367CCE1@cisco.com> In-Reply-To: References: <3CA05746-FC13-468B-A1EC-4AC1C9082964@cisco.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Mailer: MailMate Trial (1.9.6r5347) Archived-At: Subject: Re: [netmod] Feedback on ietf-access-control-list X-BeenThere: netmod@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 Precedence: list List-Id: NETMOD WG list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 19 Jul 2017 06:43:48 -0000 On 19 Jul 2017, at 1:42, Mahesh Jethanandani wrote: > Joe, > >> On Jul 17, 2017, at 6:02 PM, Joe Clarke wrote: >> >> I’ve read the latest -11 draft, and I have three comments. I’ve >> been trying to follow the schema changes and make sure I can properly >> get my head around them in order to spot any obvious shortcomings. >> The example in the draft is helpful (as most examples are). However, >> in the latest draft, it seems that the example has drifted from what >> the model specifies. > > Noted. We will fix it. Thanks. So my understanding is correct. >> While I see in the appendix uses for acl-oper-data, it is not clear >> from the model or main draft text what this would be used for. >> Again, I inferred what the appendix did, but perhaps there could be >> some main draft text that speaks to this container explicitly. > > Gathering of statistics has been identified as an open issue, opened > in GitHub and a separate thread started on netmod. Will identify the > solution we are looking for in that thread. Understood. Thanks for the update. Joe From nobody Wed Jul 19 00:00:06 2017 Return-Path: X-Original-To: netmod@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: netmod@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6C0ED131AD7 for ; Wed, 19 Jul 2017 00:00:05 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -14.522 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-14.522 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_HI=-5, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_H3=-0.01, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_WL=-0.01, RP_MATCHES_RCVD=-0.001, SPF_HELO_PASS=-0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001, USER_IN_DEF_DKIM_WL=-7.5] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (1024-bit key) header.d=cisco.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id EjmWBEfRpAnt for ; Wed, 19 Jul 2017 00:00:03 -0700 (PDT) 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19 Jul 2017 03:00:00 -0400 From: "Acee Lindem (acee)" To: "Robert Wilton -X (rwilton - ENSOFT LIMITED at Cisco)" , Alex Campbell , "Mahesh Jethanandani" , NetMod WG Thread-Topic: [netmod] ACL draft defines ether-type as a string Thread-Index: AQHS/44p8hHHD3EsJEWY6sXMAFAup6JabqIAgAB7NACAAAz8AP//w0+A Date: Wed, 19 Jul 2017 07:00:00 +0000 Message-ID: References: <1500416980342.21019@Aviatnet.com> <20170719055038.GA19325@elstar.local> <07ee9a53-bed7-00a2-9cfa-604eef5c0f7b@cisco.com> In-Reply-To: <07ee9a53-bed7-00a2-9cfa-604eef5c0f7b@cisco.com> Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-ms-exchange-messagesentrepresentingtype: 1 x-ms-exchange-transport-fromentityheader: Hosted x-originating-ip: [10.24.84.79] Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-ID: <88D54302D54E904B9B25704542E74F01@emea.cisco.com> Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 MIME-Version: 1.0 Archived-At: Subject: Re: [netmod] ACL draft defines ether-type as a string 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b=DbNSca0BztZX5qxvD/rvomKpbu2RdYAamR1To8Wewchl6LTnQPmr99jyqJfeNq/q2a pfJKeojXk7dIbtPsMCq7/Wyvenyat2jwTCxbyLO5njH8SEubNZD4TNbt2uEawGxGD9rc 9MQSMQ1V0gpqtkTixcJ3IwSI7rGbEBoLoJcsSJmIJy+LLU/qaULo08R9Py+rcf41PQ8r 572ahsymRc62hmbR1R4Wuz19VQVXS7/8SXRoiSl2ri8rl6J+1VUlanMURx10kn5Sqz4Y o5qPVz95NJ8bTs70wwCm4Ibe9Gg5xDz/XX9J0gjVyjg+vgmym8wMLRiPgfKN7WukteRT RWfA== X-Gm-Message-State: AIVw113Z8+s9tFZoJrZzIBi8w/1nEcLfp0ROUr1Fq0Sw64oSInfXtOGr VtXbSqXSWBTkbo1WFhTVZdGbixHShubw X-Received: by 10.55.33.194 with SMTP id f63mr1654239qki.112.1500449993912; Wed, 19 Jul 2017 00:39:53 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.237.51.164 with HTTP; Wed, 19 Jul 2017 00:39:53 -0700 (PDT) From: Dhruv Dhody Date: Wed, 19 Jul 2017 13:09:53 +0530 Message-ID: To: netmod@ietf.org Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="001a11400caee3f6a40554a6bcaf" Archived-At: Subject: [netmod] Notification in Yang Modules X-BeenThere: netmod@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 Precedence: list List-Id: NETMOD WG list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 19 Jul 2017 07:40:05 -0000 --001a11400caee3f6a40554a6bcaf Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable =E2=80=8B =E2=80=8BHi WG, As suggested by Lou, =E2=80=8BI am posting the question to the WG list with= a suggestion that perhaps =E2=80=8Bsuch a guideline could be addressed in 608= 7bis. My question to yang doctors regarding the Notification was - What is the guideline for including Notification in the Yang model, now that [I-D.ietf-netconf-yang-push] and [I-D.ietf-netconf-subscribed-notifications] is the preferred approach? Should we keep only "mandatory to implement notifications" in the Yang model? Or just remove the notifications completely? A guideline to model writers would be helpful here, IMHO. Regards, Dhruv --001a11400caee3f6a40554a6bcaf Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
=E2=80=8B=E2=80=8BHi W= G,

My question to yang doctors regarding the Notificatio= n was -=C2=A0

What is the guideline for including Notification in the = Yang model, now that [I-D.ietf-netconf-yang-push] and [I-D.ietf-netconf-sub= scribed-notifications] is the preferred approach?

Should we keep only = "mandatory to implement notifications" in the Yang model? Or just= remove the notifications completely?

A guideline to model writers wou= ld be helpful here, IMHO.

Regards,
Dhruv
--001a11400caee3f6a40554a6bcaf-- From nobody Wed Jul 19 00:51:44 2017 Return-Path: X-Original-To: netmod@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: netmod@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id A4FA6131BFE for ; Wed, 19 Jul 2017 00:51:39 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.9 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.9 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, RP_MATCHES_RCVD=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id L4uBc98LwJg5 for ; Wed, 19 Jul 2017 00:51:37 -0700 (PDT) Received: from atlas5.jacobs-university.de (atlas5.jacobs-university.de [212.201.44.20]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher AECDH-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 0D12E131C05 for ; Wed, 19 Jul 2017 00:51:37 -0700 (PDT) Received: from localhost (demetrius5.irc-it.jacobs-university.de [10.70.0.222]) by atlas5.jacobs-university.de (Postfix) with ESMTP id D727A375; Wed, 19 Jul 2017 09:51:35 +0200 (CEST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at jacobs-university.de Received: from atlas5.jacobs-university.de ([10.70.0.217]) by localhost (demetrius5.jacobs-university.de [10.70.0.222]) (amavisd-new, port 10032) with ESMTP id AfkH19LDXc0K; Wed, 19 Jul 2017 09:51:33 +0200 (CEST) Received: from hermes.jacobs-university.de (hermes.jacobs-university.de [212.201.44.23]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (Client CN "hermes.jacobs-university.de", Issuer "Jacobs University CA - G01" (verified OK)) by atlas5.jacobs-university.de (Postfix) with ESMTPS; Wed, 19 Jul 2017 09:51:35 +0200 (CEST) Received: from localhost (demetrius1.jacobs-university.de [212.201.44.46]) by hermes.jacobs-university.de (Postfix) with ESMTP id B699A200AA; Wed, 19 Jul 2017 09:51:35 +0200 (CEST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at jacobs-university.de Received: from hermes.jacobs-university.de ([212.201.44.23]) by localhost (demetrius1.jacobs-university.de [212.201.44.32]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id rY2YZ-t3__HN; Wed, 19 Jul 2017 09:51:35 +0200 (CEST) Received: from elstar.local (elstar.jacobs.jacobs-university.de [10.50.231.133]) by hermes.jacobs-university.de (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2295D200A8; Wed, 19 Jul 2017 09:51:35 +0200 (CEST) Received: by elstar.local (Postfix, from userid 501) id 0F0003FF4EFB; Wed, 19 Jul 2017 09:51:35 +0200 (CEST) Date: Wed, 19 Jul 2017 09:51:34 +0200 From: Juergen Schoenwaelder To: Dhruv Dhody Cc: netmod@ietf.org Message-ID: <20170719075134.GA19489@elstar.local> Reply-To: Juergen Schoenwaelder Mail-Followup-To: Dhruv Dhody , netmod@ietf.org References: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Disposition: inline X-Clacks-Overhead: GNU Terry Pratchett Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit In-Reply-To: User-Agent: Mutt/1.6.0 (2016-04-01) Archived-At: Subject: Re: [netmod] Notification in Yang Modules X-BeenThere: netmod@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 Precedence: list List-Id: NETMOD WG list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 19 Jul 2017 07:51:40 -0000 Dhruv, the question is very broad and hence difficult to answer. Some things to consider: For certain events that a system will detect and handle anyway and that are generally relevant for management applications (an interface going up or down for example), having a specific notification defined will likely remain useful. You also have to consider whether all systems implementing your data model can be expected to implement the push and subscription models. Despite implementation costs, these models come with a certain runtime overhead as well. /js On Wed, Jul 19, 2017 at 01:09:53PM +0530, Dhruv Dhody wrote: > ​ > ​Hi WG, > > As suggested by Lou, ​I am posting the question to the WG list with a > suggestion that perhaps ​such a guideline could be addressed in 6087bis. > > My question to yang doctors regarding the Notification was - > > What is the guideline for including Notification in the Yang model, now > that [I-D.ietf-netconf-yang-push] and > [I-D.ietf-netconf-subscribed-notifications] is the preferred approach? > > Should we keep only "mandatory to implement notifications" in the Yang > model? Or just remove the notifications completely? > > A guideline to model writers would be helpful here, IMHO. > > Regards, > Dhruv > _______________________________________________ > netmod mailing list > netmod@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/netmod -- Juergen Schoenwaelder Jacobs University Bremen gGmbH Phone: +49 421 200 3587 Campus Ring 1 | 28759 Bremen | Germany Fax: +49 421 200 3103 From nobody Wed Jul 19 00:56:33 2017 Return-Path: X-Original-To: netmod@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: netmod@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0B9A2131C13 for ; Wed, 19 Jul 2017 00:55:43 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.899 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.899 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=yumaworks-com.20150623.gappssmtp.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id IuayfPZ0P9_g for ; Wed, 19 Jul 2017 00:55:41 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail-wm0-x229.google.com (mail-wm0-x229.google.com [IPv6:2a00:1450:400c:c09::229]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 34C34131C17 for ; Wed, 19 Jul 2017 00:55:40 -0700 (PDT) Received: by mail-wm0-x229.google.com with SMTP id g127so7201224wmd.0 for ; Wed, 19 Jul 2017 00:55:40 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=yumaworks-com.20150623.gappssmtp.com; s=20150623; h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:from:date:message-id:subject:to :cc; bh=DT1Sm14kGjU3yQdkzhoj7s7+sJsD56oEzkuLNZEQ3UI=; b=jdaBCeWIiSpn/9epNnJn1WgOmhxggRRH3jsRxJIAfvq0mZRxePN1sUYbC/u0L3CP3+ Bg9FObPvi4aQnXlOwnEaVUf7NuWzWL9Y/OewJWTStn4zhOxZ66bHUoHY9Z+CaqfYwxn2 eSZVoOZE1RDRXKBd5to7r5EvZEZKUyZ/y58NLEOMuf7FPWGfry9rAwxo2sLGUzn5OkfH Mq0yga/+3k1x3Z7ZHak6+pDwi5HH6gkg1e0+BaqtV2qW7z13IY53+cafB/qA4+KGbs7W St0HRtW0eDoa67itfryASJLfdYS1z1NchUhF1i9wG9JGfFkiQGvsIFmaDE0UgXgBapm1 gzZw== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:in-reply-to:references:from:date :message-id:subject:to:cc; bh=DT1Sm14kGjU3yQdkzhoj7s7+sJsD56oEzkuLNZEQ3UI=; b=cBEz49CT86UJbT988jRQY3Q4rdyjI+spNqWqkEqRGghpLvKvcBkHuQNMrR0p7K7u/6 D5FKw6XAgRHsNhZ81+sgsSFvKJhmp7fQb0GsSjmbYZekeMtoBEBKRvkeUsnjyxf5GJ51 8n7pU5lnxa8iXmGDg4OGgMOgpI3y3IAgEjeFjh4rFd3QrS9Q7mS3pOoTFlbpehk9vHFE 2l7pt/0Cu7gIwXK8JpZhw3UFFP9c3FwLZ5syJWLzzC3hwjtLCHLGsveJk5U7xCpDxt2b kpbGzH2Sslk31UgOekjlkOKpb6/SjlAUnq6ihQwdTBdxmwyxCYjDgO17UBNRPewGwgq6 TBAg== X-Gm-Message-State: AIVw111/D3s7Y/vtUUVBQWhiBurpU1rehiqxVOi4Y095quOrnTb2dm2V fn+t+igpVGuz7z8FU3T+u8Erv3mNorkV X-Received: by 10.28.26.2 with SMTP id a2mr4973764wma.32.1500450938719; Wed, 19 Jul 2017 00:55:38 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.223.152.196 with HTTP; Wed, 19 Jul 2017 00:55:38 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: References: From: Andy Bierman Date: Wed, 19 Jul 2017 00:55:38 -0700 Message-ID: To: Dhruv Dhody Cc: "netmod@ietf.org" Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="001a114cd9fa34a88b0554a6f5a9" Archived-At: Subject: Re: [netmod] Notification in Yang Modules X-BeenThere: netmod@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 Precedence: list List-Id: NETMOD WG list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 19 Jul 2017 07:55:43 -0000 --001a114cd9fa34a88b0554a6f5a9 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hi, The YANG notification-stmt is for defining your own event messages. This can be used with 5277 or 5277bis notification delivery mechanisms. The choice of mandatory or optional (via if-feature) is model-specific. If the module functionality related to the notification is optional, the notification-stmt should be the same (have the same if-feature-stmts) If your notification is for pushing operational data that is also retrievable via , then yang-push can be used instead. Andy On Wed, Jul 19, 2017 at 12:39 AM, Dhruv Dhody wrote: > =E2=80=8B > =E2=80=8BHi WG, > > As suggested by Lou, =E2=80=8BI am posting the question to the WG list wi= th a > suggestion that perhaps =E2=80=8Bsuch a guideline could be addressed in 6= 087bis. > > My question to yang doctors regarding the Notification was - > > What is the guideline for including Notification in the Yang model, now > that [I-D.ietf-netconf-yang-push] and [I-D.ietf-netconf-subscribed-notifi= cations] > is the preferred approach? > > Should we keep only "mandatory to implement notifications" in the Yang > model? Or just remove the notifications completely? > > A guideline to model writers would be helpful here, IMHO. > > Regards, > Dhruv > > _______________________________________________ > netmod mailing list > netmod@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/netmod > > --001a114cd9fa34a88b0554a6f5a9 Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Hi,

The YANG notification-stmt is for d= efining your own event messages.
This can be used with 5277 or 52= 77bis notification delivery mechanisms.

The choice of mandatory or optional (via if-feature) is model-s= pecific.
If the module functionality relate= d to the notification is optional, the
noti= fication-stmt should be the same (have the same if-feature-stmts)

If your notific= ation is for pushing operational data that is also retrievable via <get&= gt;,
then yang-push can be used instead.=C2= =A0

Andy
On Wed, Jul 19, 2017 at 12:39 AM, Dhruv Dhody <= span dir=3D"ltr"><dhruv.ietf@gmail.com> wrote:
=E2=80=8B
=E2=80=8BHi WG,

As suggested by = Lou, =E2=80=8BI am posting the question to the WG list with a suggestion th= at perhaps =E2=80=8Bsuch a guideline could be addressed in 6087bis.=C2=A0
<= br>
My question to yang doctors regarding the Notification was -=C2=A0

=
What is the guideline for including Notification in the Yang model, now th= at [I-D.ietf-netconf-yang-push] and [I-D.ietf-netconf-subscribed-notif= ications] is the preferred approach?

Should we keep only "mandato= ry to implement notifications" in the Yang model? Or just remove the n= otifications completely?

A guideline to model writers would be helpful= here, IMHO.

Regards,
Dhruv

_______________________________________________
netmod mailing list
netmod@ietf.org
https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/netmod

--001a114cd9fa34a88b0554a6f5a9-- From nobody Wed Jul 19 01:52:02 2017 Return-Path: X-Original-To: netmod@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: netmod@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id AA253131C39 for ; Wed, 19 Jul 2017 01:52:00 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -4.699 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-4.699 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_H2=-2.8, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001, WEIRD_PORT=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (768-bit key) header.d=labn.net Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id YUSpymyC5pm3 for ; Wed, 19 Jul 2017 01:51:59 -0700 (PDT) Received: from outbound-ss-1812.hostmonster.com (gproxy1-pub.mail.unifiedlayer.com [69.89.25.95]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 972CD131C21 for ; Wed, 19 Jul 2017 01:51:59 -0700 (PDT) Received: from cmgw3 (cmgw4 [10.0.90.84]) by gproxy1.mail.unifiedlayer.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id F1BE6175EC4 for ; Wed, 19 Jul 2017 02:51:44 -0600 (MDT) Received: from box313.bluehost.com ([69.89.31.113]) by cmgw3 with id mYrh1v00N2SSUrH01Yrkew; Wed, 19 Jul 2017 02:51:44 -0600 X-Authority-Analysis: v=2.2 cv=UM2tJGXy c=1 sm=1 tr=0 a=h1BC+oY+fLhyFmnTBx92Jg==:117 a=h1BC+oY+fLhyFmnTBx92Jg==:17 a=IkcTkHD0fZMA:10 a=xqWC_Br6kY4A:10 a=G3gG6ho9WtcA:10 a=48vgC7mUAAAA:8 a=KOVJoyn5x-5WtzbyxOIA:9 a=QEXdDO2ut3YA:10 a=gUXmQ8eWAGYA:10 a=w1C3t2QeGrPiZgrLijVG:22 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; q=dns/txt; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=labn.net; s=default; h=Content-Transfer-Encoding:Content-Type:MIME-Version:Date: Message-ID:Subject:From:To:Sender:Reply-To:Cc:Content-ID:Content-Description: Resent-Date:Resent-From:Resent-Sender:Resent-To:Resent-Cc:Resent-Message-ID: In-Reply-To:References:List-Id:List-Help:List-Unsubscribe:List-Subscribe: List-Post:List-Owner:List-Archive; bh=QijwDr9Fo5osIYSLl9b61qHvxCKtXU29pGhjlHK83aY=; b=qmTBfZdoiDa4bqfiURPS0fPA5h zMvmDjE/jW1EXq4j2hPgSBbKCn44kN+586Bcw3lfWXwShp749mWg5JqAp9XxvDv8oWYl81Uw58eua mWwYsyHU8mV04r+3J8LbmPpWh; Received: from pool-100-15-84-20.washdc.fios.verizon.net ([100.15.84.20]:53780 helo=[IPv6:::1]) by box313.bluehost.com with esmtpsa (TLSv1.2:ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256:128) (Exim 4.87) (envelope-from ) id 1dXkhp-002Kwl-IU for netmod@ietf.org; Wed, 19 Jul 2017 02:51:41 -0600 To: NetMod WG From: Lou Berger Message-ID: Date: Wed, 19 Jul 2017 10:51:39 +0200 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 10.0; WOW64; rv:52.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/52.2.1 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Language: en-US Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-AntiAbuse: This header was added to track abuse, please include it with any abuse report X-AntiAbuse: Primary Hostname - box313.bluehost.com X-AntiAbuse: Original Domain - ietf.org X-AntiAbuse: Originator/Caller UID/GID - [47 12] / [47 12] X-AntiAbuse: Sender Address Domain - labn.net X-BWhitelist: no X-Source-IP: 100.15.84.20 X-Exim-ID: 1dXkhp-002Kwl-IU X-Source: X-Source-Args: X-Source-Dir: X-Source-Sender: pool-100-15-84-20.washdc.fios.verizon.net ([IPv6:::1]) [100.15.84.20]:53780 X-Source-Auth: lberger@labn.net X-Email-Count: 5 X-Source-Cap: bGFibm1vYmk7bGFibm1vYmk7Ym94MzEzLmJsdWVob3N0LmNvbQ== Archived-At: Subject: [netmod] raw notes from session 1 - link for session 2 X-BeenThere: netmod@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 Precedence: list List-Id: NETMOD WG list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 19 Jul 2017 08:52:00 -0000 Hi, Please take a look at the raw notes from session 1 and feel free to fix / fill in any session details (remember, this should reflect *only* what took/takes place -- discussion should be on the list). The same link will be used for raw session note taking during our upcoming second session. http://etherpad.tools.ietf.org:9000/p/notes-ietf-99-netmod?useMonospaceFont=true Thanks, Lou (and Kent) From nobody Wed Jul 19 08:11:24 2017 Return-Path: X-Original-To: netmod@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: netmod@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 54619131C6C for ; Wed, 19 Jul 2017 08:11:21 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.619 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.619 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW=-0.7, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_H3=-0.01, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_WL=-0.01, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id mX81jo9Eo8ea for ; Wed, 19 Jul 2017 08:11:19 -0700 (PDT) Received: from asmtp4.iomartmail.com (asmtp4.iomartmail.com [62.128.201.175]) (using TLSv1 with cipher DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id AECC5131CE6 for ; Wed, 19 Jul 2017 08:11:18 -0700 (PDT) Received: from asmtp4.iomartmail.com (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by asmtp4.iomartmail.com (8.13.8/8.13.8) with ESMTP id v6JFBGmv025850 for ; Wed, 19 Jul 2017 16:11:16 +0100 Received: from 950129200 (dhcp-8d56.meeting.ietf.org [31.133.141.86]) (authenticated bits=0) by asmtp4.iomartmail.com (8.13.8/8.13.8) with ESMTP id v6JFBFTg025824 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO) for ; Wed, 19 Jul 2017 16:11:16 +0100 Reply-To: From: "Adrian Farrel" To: Date: Wed, 19 Jul 2017 16:11:12 +0100 Message-ID: <09e401d300a1$4347a5e0$c9d6f1a0$@olddog.co.uk> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook 14.0 Thread-Index: AdMAoUDaCpsxcfEQRHes9Rm7U1erBw== Content-Language: en-gb X-TM-AS-MML: disable X-TM-AS-Product-Ver: IMSS-7.1.0.1679-8.1.0.1062-23204.007 X-TM-AS-Result: No--2.754-10.0-31-10 X-imss-scan-details: No--2.754-10.0-31-10 X-TMASE-MatchedRID: 609g9QN/Q5CLgXghGVLQkkK9qlwiTElf9hm8q1aH2bdWbeFnuia3UppM kX9JMkJeQPZXEkUW/JXKUguNaXKQsIHuBCOy47kXSEQN/D/3cG6eimGtNywjtpsoi2XrUn/JyeM tMD9QOgCrrVqVQLpWR+TCMddcL/gjxlblqLlYqXLnHntKraz6o9huBgNErC8zNO79A35+mOvJrx 2gjpwX5MwSsEVrlgcHHgmXGkPV3ntw3WUmY0z8BRTXL9SE8rUsfGKF8e7oGRs2Fo4EfHNqXY5MJ KdFN6D6I9UhQYuUjidG3TVmsFmvfmY7eqLvyw0k Archived-At: Subject: [netmod] Migrating existing RFCs to NMDA X-BeenThere: netmod@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 Precedence: list List-Id: NETMOD WG list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 19 Jul 2017 15:11:21 -0000 Hi, Rob's useful presentation at https://www.ietf.org/proceedings/99/slides/slides-99-netmod-sessa-nmda-qa-01.pdf listed a set of RFCs the "need to be updated". That's a good first step, but we seem to have run out of magic pixie dust here in the depot, so we were wondering how that "need" is going to be converted to action. Is there a plan? If not, what is the plan for a plan? Thanks, Adrian From nobody Wed Jul 19 10:48:14 2017 Return-Path: X-Original-To: netmod@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: netmod@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4EC151317BE for ; Wed, 19 Jul 2017 10:48:09 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -14.522 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-14.522 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_HI=-5, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_H3=-0.01, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_WL=-0.01, RP_MATCHES_RCVD=-0.001, SPF_HELO_PASS=-0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001, USER_IN_DEF_DKIM_WL=-7.5] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (1024-bit key) header.d=cisco.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id r6MjmtXGcSp3 for ; Wed, 19 Jul 2017 10:48:07 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From: "Clyde Wildes (cwildes)" To: Alex Campbell , Kent Watsen , "netmod@ietf.org" Thread-Topic: [netmod] WG Last Call for draft-ietf-netmod-syslog-model-15 Thread-Index: AQHTALcsnxmaKupZ/kyeF+fon7bzlg== Date: Wed, 19 Jul 2017 17:48:05 +0000 Message-ID: <91FA5813-8D96-414F-BAC6-BA6C65C5149C@cisco.com> Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-ms-exchange-messagesentrepresentingtype: 1 x-ms-exchange-transport-fromentityheader: Hosted x-originating-ip: [128.107.151.24] Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-ID: <2C9D55A729452445BC146C9A4E78D258@emea.cisco.com> Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 MIME-Version: 1.0 Archived-At: Subject: Re: [netmod] WG Last Call for draft-ietf-netmod-syslog-model-15 X-BeenThere: netmod@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 Precedence: list List-Id: NETMOD WG list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 19 Jul 2017 17:48:09 -0000 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ICBuZXRtb2RAaWV0Zi5vcmcNCiAgICBodHRwczovL3d3dy5pZXRmLm9yZy9tYWlsbWFuL2xpc3Rp bmZvL25ldG1vZA0KICAgIA0KDQo= From nobody Wed Jul 19 18:20:53 2017 Return-Path: X-Original-To: netmod@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: netmod@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 445B112ECC0; Wed, 19 Jul 2017 18:20:45 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.119 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.119 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW=-0.7, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_H3=-0.01, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_WL=-0.01, RCVD_IN_SORBS_SPAM=0.5, WEIRD_PORT=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id tYUXK2eJ1PWY; Wed, 19 Jul 2017 18:20:38 -0700 (PDT) Received: from relay4-d.mail.gandi.net (relay4-d.mail.gandi.net [217.70.183.196]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher AECDH-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 8AA14129B4C; Wed, 19 Jul 2017 18:20:38 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mfilter11-d.gandi.net (mfilter11-d.gandi.net [217.70.178.131]) by relay4-d.mail.gandi.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1BD3D172095; Thu, 20 Jul 2017 03:20:37 +0200 (CEST) X-Virus-Scanned: Debian amavisd-new at mfilter11-d.gandi.net Received: from relay4-d.mail.gandi.net ([IPv6:::ffff:217.70.183.196]) by mfilter11-d.gandi.net (mfilter11-d.gandi.net [::ffff:10.0.15.180]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 3gdYIX_IMaSV; Thu, 20 Jul 2017 03:20:35 +0200 (CEST) X-Originating-IP: 89.176.18.156 Received: from [10.10.20.70] (ip-89-176-18-156.net.upcbroadband.cz [89.176.18.156]) (Authenticated sender: alex@ackl.io) by relay4-d.mail.gandi.net (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id F2760172098; Thu, 20 Jul 2017 03:20:34 +0200 (CEST) From: Alexander Pelov Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 10.3 \(3273\)) Message-Id: <3E55F10D-EE31-4C9A-B871-5EB8E1A2B583@ackl.io> Date: Thu, 20 Jul 2017 03:20:34 +0200 To: yot@ietf.org, Core , netmod@ietf.org X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.3273) Archived-At: Subject: [netmod] Side meeting on YOT X-BeenThere: netmod@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 Precedence: list List-Id: NETMOD WG list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 20 Jul 2017 01:20:45 -0000 Dear all, This is a reminder for the YANG of THINGS Side meeting, which will take = place *TODAY* (July 20th), 10AM-12PM CEST in room room Tyrolka, = Mezzanine Level. The materials for the meeting are available online at the following = address: https://github.com/Ixau/yot/tree/master/ietf99 Remote presence will be made available thanks to Jitsi - just go to the = address through your browser: https://jitsi.tools.ietf.org/yot=20 We will also try to take notes in the Etherpad: = http://etherpad.tools.ietf.org:9000/p/yot (This is of course an = informal meeting, so don=E2=80=99t expect detailed minutes) Best, Alexander From nobody Wed Jul 19 23:54:00 2017 Return-Path: X-Original-To: netmod@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: netmod@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 46B5A131907 for ; Wed, 19 Jul 2017 23:53:42 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.599 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.599 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW=-0.7] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=wallan-se.20150623.gappssmtp.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id JvqKweiqcWe6 for ; Wed, 19 Jul 2017 23:53:40 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail-lf0-x231.google.com (mail-lf0-x231.google.com [IPv6:2a00:1450:4010:c07::231]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id CE7D8127866 for ; Wed, 19 Jul 2017 23:53:39 -0700 (PDT) Received: by mail-lf0-x231.google.com with SMTP id g25so4573559lfh.1 for ; Wed, 19 Jul 2017 23:53:39 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=wallan-se.20150623.gappssmtp.com; s=20150623; h=mime-version:subject:from:in-reply-to:date:cc:message-id:references :to; bh=7froCfcHU8Mm3NpB/5oeogV+seadS7nd7L2dHTx+Vcs=; b=cGTzm8KS40iEaDV/TvOYwi5CKMqoHngnk9WllG1zjRwiOPjFA0cZWVMge6dp0gsUbb ouZM/Zo+gPKApDnT/3whkXSuvRp96hZ75Urtqor+qsbIVjoBAVN7nV3N/Z0/X5nxSIDG RXCUlhZ/Pmm1sUm5lxjP725yWBjUuc775hystAFSs0zzWR2T2gi3N+PD7AC3NG5U1ptS l/67EVT6YdLE5DzCThH7YQciJxcDn+umIWlBsOAFLxjvugb03euw1SUB+gHGEoRNE4iY LitoRQEHbtAl7prbK2j4CKYETaQIXSrHcCPF2Z+RrvQXbEbIqhrb/M2taJ1Pv2iZwnmB CJ/A== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:subject:from:in-reply-to:date:cc :message-id:references:to; bh=7froCfcHU8Mm3NpB/5oeogV+seadS7nd7L2dHTx+Vcs=; b=GUhJ/ApWoFp7sRiJSptzLBHrpe+WWMyNJUsMTMpcKEASq5ZsYenRX5Nsajp2M0d0xK 94eqauA5XY/GFkJPiq+AmIR7bLRhqt+uhNVGXVZmMIlAORx6PccQbNPrlwE6qEBBerXT RxE8XoG+rQlojehtqMNVKQXJwTJXIsh/NSGmlOQheSLEYj4D2M0WmEcf5LvSes+HYxb2 b1FVjY9KW5snX+anM+QJMmV/joOfhYNPFaA2x2YgNTUwLAK//KfHfitfr8bY4ClbhcAu g6p6t/ItN0dcRnJOCUmmNsUT0NdEIUuKfKsfNJYmnnaH+7JlPY5CxOISxPthlB0PAf7c 1SWA== X-Gm-Message-State: AIVw113gqhqVmF3N98DUInCEp0oeOOos/JALGedN6U9TVMX4/n0IlRUb wLPurqX+nILf0mdM X-Received: by 10.25.229.82 with SMTP id c79mr863468lfh.251.1500533617924; Wed, 19 Jul 2017 23:53:37 -0700 (PDT) Received: from [192.168.99.164] ([195.234.15.132]) by smtp.gmail.com with ESMTPSA id v13sm312293ljd.17.2017.07.19.23.53.36 (version=TLS1 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-AES128-SHA bits=128/128); Wed, 19 Jul 2017 23:53:37 -0700 (PDT) Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="Apple-Mail=_5C3AE25F-B2B3-45B5-8BA3-60EFE3D7426C" Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 9.3 \(3124\)) From: stefan vallin In-Reply-To: Date: Thu, 20 Jul 2017 08:53:35 +0200 Cc: netmod@ietf.org Message-Id: References: To: Dan Romascanu X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.3124) Archived-At: Subject: Re: [netmod] why is the alarm YANG work being done in CCAMP? X-BeenThere: netmod@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 Precedence: list List-Id: NETMOD WG list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 20 Jul 2017 06:53:42 -0000 --Apple-Mail=_5C3AE25F-B2B3-45B5-8BA3-60EFE3D7426C Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Hi Dan! Agree, there is a long thread on this and I voted on NETMOD all along Stefan Vallin stefan@wallan.se +46705233262 > On 17 Jul 2017, at 16:16, Dan Romascanu wrote: >=20 > Hi, >=20 > I am sorry if I am late to observing this. Please feel free to bash me = and point to where this discussion already took place. I just heard in = the NETMOD WG meeting that draft-vallin-netmod-alarm-module is going to = be undertaken by the CCAMP WG. What is the reason? The problem space of = Alarm management data model seems IMO pretty generic, and on the other = side I cannot see what is CCAMP-ish or even RTG Area specific in this = work.=20 >=20 > Thanks and Regards, >=20 > Dan > (one of the authors of RFC 3877) > _______________________________________________ > netmod mailing list > netmod@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/netmod --Apple-Mail=_5C3AE25F-B2B3-45B5-8BA3-60EFE3D7426C Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/html; charset=us-ascii Hi Dan!
Agree, there is a long thread on this = and I voted on NETMOD all along


Stefan Vallin
stefan@wallan.se
+46705233262

On 17 Jul 2017, at 16:16, Dan Romascanu <dromasca@gmail.com> = wrote:

Hi,

I am = sorry if I am late to observing this. Please feel free to bash me and = point to where this discussion already took place. I just heard in the = NETMOD WG meeting that draft-vallin-netmod-alarm-module is going to be = undertaken by the CCAMP WG. What is the reason? The problem space of = Alarm management data model seems IMO pretty generic, and on the other = side I cannot see what is CCAMP-ish or even RTG Area specific in this = work.

Thanks and Regards,

Dan
(one of the = authors of RFC 3877)
_______________________________________________
netmod = mailing list
netmod@ietf.org
https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/netmod

= --Apple-Mail=_5C3AE25F-B2B3-45B5-8BA3-60EFE3D7426C-- From nobody Thu Jul 20 02:39:21 2017 Return-Path: X-Original-To: netmod@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: netmod@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7746913157A for ; Thu, 20 Jul 2017 02:39:20 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -14.503 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-14.503 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_HI=-5, RP_MATCHES_RCVD=-0.001, SPF_HELO_PASS=-0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, USER_IN_DEF_DKIM_WL=-7.5] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (1024-bit key) header.d=cisco.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id qG9K_B64z45N for ; Thu, 20 Jul 2017 02:39:19 -0700 (PDT) Received: from aer-iport-2.cisco.com (aer-iport-2.cisco.com [173.38.203.52]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher DHE-RSA-SEED-SHA (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id CF90F12ECC3 for ; Thu, 20 Jul 2017 02:39:18 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/simple; d=cisco.com; i=@cisco.com; l=3008; q=dns/txt; s=iport; t=1500543558; x=1501753158; h=subject:to:references:from:message-id:date:mime-version: in-reply-to:content-transfer-encoding; bh=TBnYRHnDoWB/f6GSPCDqiDb/2BXg8qvOzMd5cOoZcy0=; b=XB2LzkaZvrhK1V9w4Cauqv1tVhpwP/L9O/pel9AQ3wo6fREVuCgBfXYG B+v/rkz1P3FRoNLpyndo1Ked+xc2amblqLzSvON2u4lMypyDtj4sQgWKS ZjB04UKAV1WkUJ1IERjgzOuZk0FVEYIJ9tyGfcREjFZgyL6QYki3pvxIG o=; X-IronPort-Anti-Spam-Filtered: true X-IronPort-Anti-Spam-Result: =?us-ascii?q?A0D7AAAreXBZ/xbLJq1cGgEBAQECAQEBA?= =?us-ascii?q?QgBAQEBhD6BFI4Lc5BSIpYFghEhDYRKTwKEMRgBAgEBAQEBAQFrKIUYAQEBAQE?= =?us-ascii?q?BAQEBIRU2GwsYAgImAgInMAYBDAYCAQGKIwgQsRqCJosgAQEBAQEBAQEBAQEBA?= =?us-ascii?q?QEBAQEBGwWBC4Idg02BYSsLgm6HfYJhAQSfPpQaAoIKiSWHA4lIgzeEI4Q8Hzi?= =?us-ascii?q?BCjEhCBsVSYcYPjYBiXkBAQE?= X-IronPort-AV: E=Sophos;i="5.40,383,1496102400"; d="scan'208";a="653363066" Received: from aer-iport-nat.cisco.com (HELO aer-core-3.cisco.com) ([173.38.203.22]) by aer-iport-2.cisco.com with ESMTP/TLS/DHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384; 20 Jul 2017 09:39:16 +0000 Received: from [10.61.216.174] ([10.61.216.174]) by aer-core-3.cisco.com (8.14.5/8.14.5) with ESMTP id v6K9dG0s000997; Thu, 20 Jul 2017 09:39:16 GMT To: adrian@olddog.co.uk, netmod@ietf.org, Martin Bjorklund , Kent Watsen , Phil Shafer , "j.schoenwaelder@jacobs-university.de" References: <09e401d300a1$4347a5e0$c9d6f1a0$@olddog.co.uk> From: Robert Wilton Message-ID: <98518425-6810-d007-3f95-d387bde95797@cisco.com> Date: Thu, 20 Jul 2017 11:39:15 +0200 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 10.0; WOW64; rv:52.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/52.2.1 MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: <09e401d300a1$4347a5e0$c9d6f1a0$@olddog.co.uk> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Language: en-US Archived-At: Subject: Re: [netmod] Migrating existing RFCs to NMDA X-BeenThere: netmod@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 Precedence: list List-Id: NETMOD WG list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 20 Jul 2017 09:39:20 -0000 Hi Adrian, On 19/07/2017 17:11, Adrian Farrel wrote: > Hi, > > Rob's useful presentation at > https://www.ietf.org/proceedings/99/slides/slides-99-netmod-sessa-nmda-qa-01.pdf > listed a set of RFCs the "need to be updated". "need to be updated" might have been a bit strong on my slides. Really it was the list of RFCs that currently define "foo-state" trees. For some of these drafts/modules it is a open question whether they get updated. My understanding of the current plan is: RFC 6022: YANG Module for NETCONF Monitoring ietf-netconf-monitoring@2010-10-04.yang defines netconf-state => Unclear whether this needs to be immediately updated. If it does then perhaps it could also be updated by draft-dsdt-nmda-netconf-00 (the proposed protocol updates to NETCONF to support NMDA). RFC 7223: A YANG Data Model for Interface Management ietf-interfaces@2014-05-08.yang defines interface-state => Martin Bjorklund to issue a bis version. RFC 7277: A YANG Data Model for IP Management ietf-ip@2014-06-16.yang augments interface-state => Martin Bjorklund to issue a bis version. RFC 7317: A YANG Data Model for System Management ietf-system@2014-08-06.yang defines system-state => Model update looks to be trivial. Martin Bjorklund is one of the authors, so hopefully he can help issue a updated version. RFC 7895: YANG Module Library ietf-yang-library@2016-06-21.yang defines module-state => Kent Watsen already has an ID submitted to NETCONF, hopefully should get WG adoption today. RFC 8040: RESTCONF Protocol ietf-restconf-monitoring@2017-01-26.yang ietf-restconf@2017-01-26.yang defines restconf-state => Unclear whether this needs to be immediately updated. If it does then perhaps it could also be updated by draft-dsdt-netconf-restconf-nmda-00 (the proposed protocol updates to RESTCONF to support NMDA). RFC 8022: A YANG Data Model for Routing Management ietf-ipv4-unicast-routing@2016-11-04.yang ietf-ipv6-router-advertisements@2016-11-04.yang ietf-ipv6-unicast-routing@2016-11-04.yang ietf-routing@2016-11-04.yang defines and augments routing-state => Rob Wilton to help update models, will get from authors to republish, Acee Lindem has indicated that he will help. > > That's a good first step, but we seem to have run out of magic pixie dust here > in the depot, so we were wondering how that "need" is going to be converted to > action. The NMDA authors will help achieve this. > > Is there a plan? If not, what is the plan for a plan? Assuming that the NETCONF, RESTCONF, and YANG libary NMDA updates are supported for adoption by NETCONF WG, then I expect that we should hopefully see draft versions of these updated models shortly (before the next IETF, hopefully sooner than that).. Thanks, Rob > > Thanks, > Adrian > > _______________________________________________ > netmod mailing list > netmod@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/netmod > . > From nobody Thu Jul 20 04:49:20 2017 Return-Path: X-Original-To: netmod@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: netmod@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5981F1315FF for ; Thu, 20 Jul 2017 04:49:19 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.62 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.62 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW=-0.7, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_H3=-0.01, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_WL=-0.01] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id QMiDWCC2__Cz for ; Thu, 20 Jul 2017 04:49:18 -0700 (PDT) Received: from asmtp1.iomartmail.com (asmtp1.iomartmail.com [62.128.201.248]) (using TLSv1 with cipher DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 256BD131463 for ; Thu, 20 Jul 2017 04:49:17 -0700 (PDT) Received: from asmtp1.iomartmail.com (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by asmtp1.iomartmail.com (8.13.8/8.13.8) with ESMTP id v6KBnDWs004213; Thu, 20 Jul 2017 12:49:13 +0100 Received: from 950129200 (dhcp-8d56.meeting.ietf.org [31.133.141.86]) (authenticated bits=0) by asmtp1.iomartmail.com (8.13.8/8.13.8) with ESMTP id v6KBnAkx004201 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO); Thu, 20 Jul 2017 12:49:11 +0100 Reply-To: From: "Adrian Farrel" To: "'Robert Wilton'" , , "'Martin Bjorklund'" , "'Kent Watsen'" , "'Phil Shafer'" , References: <09e401d300a1$4347a5e0$c9d6f1a0$@olddog.co.uk> <98518425-6810-d007-3f95-d387bde95797@cisco.com> In-Reply-To: <98518425-6810-d007-3f95-d387bde95797@cisco.com> Date: Thu, 20 Jul 2017 12:49:08 +0100 Message-ID: <0c0401d3014e$335e47d0$9a1ad770$@olddog.co.uk> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook 14.0 Thread-Index: AQKHW9+n60BdUQpmpcSELvfWbElgHwJJJcqioOGbVKA= Content-Language: en-gb X-TM-AS-MML: disable X-TM-AS-Product-Ver: IMSS-7.1.0.1679-8.1.0.1062-23206.006 X-TM-AS-Result: No--2.971-10.0-31-10 X-imss-scan-details: No--2.971-10.0-31-10 X-TMASE-MatchedRID: ZrceL/U8jXSnykMun0J1wvHkpkyUphL9Ud7Bjfo+5jQHp3cP4ojBkEqH oLjT0W23ORBbElMo5cjcFPFR1xoqQk1+zyfzlN7ygxsfzkNRlfJq8/xv2Um1avoLR4+zsDTtw38 dXReMtXeQz/lInCkk0CrvhGhZkxRyVBuGcybkybeXUalBoxtqdk3+9BzFCkVzNAW83zYDw/v1Ol CIPxKfizngMRAgrdeEyfkWaeG5p9A= Archived-At: Subject: Re: [netmod] Migrating existing RFCs to NMDA X-BeenThere: netmod@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 Precedence: list List-Id: NETMOD WG list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 20 Jul 2017 11:49:19 -0000 Thanks, That is helpful. Adrian > -----Original Message----- > From: Robert Wilton [mailto:rwilton@cisco.com] > Sent: 20 July 2017 10:39 > To: adrian@olddog.co.uk; netmod@ietf.org; Martin Bjorklund; Kent Watsen; Phil > Shafer; j.schoenwaelder@jacobs-university.de > Subject: Re: [netmod] Migrating existing RFCs to NMDA > > Hi Adrian, > > My understanding of the current plan is: From nobody Thu Jul 20 05:10:09 2017 Return-Path: X-Original-To: netmod@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: netmod@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5C1DB131C1C for ; Thu, 20 Jul 2017 05:10:08 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -4.222 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-4.222 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-2.3, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_H3=-0.01, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_WL=-0.01, RP_MATCHES_RCVD=-0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by 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"adrian@olddog.co.uk" , "netmod@ietf.org" , Martin Bjorklund , Kent Watsen , Phil Shafer , "j.schoenwaelder@jacobs-university.de" Thread-Topic: [netmod] Migrating existing RFCs to NMDA Thread-Index: AdMAoUDaCpsxcfEQRHes9Rm7U1erBwAV73qAABXCARQ= Date: Thu, 20 Jul 2017 12:09:25 +0000 Message-ID: <9C5FD3EFA72E1740A3D41BADDE0B461FC7568598@DGGEMA501-MBX.china.huawei.com> References: <09e401d300a1$4347a5e0$c9d6f1a0$@olddog.co.uk>, <98518425-6810-d007-3f95-d387bde95797@cisco.com> In-Reply-To: <98518425-6810-d007-3f95-d387bde95797@cisco.com> Accept-Language: zh-CN, en-US Content-Language: zh-CN X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-originating-ip: [10.47.75.186] Content-Type: text/plain; charset="gb2312" Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-CFilter-Loop: Reflected X-Mirapoint-Virus-RAPID-Raw: score=unknown(0), refid=str=0001.0A010203.59709D99.0013, ss=1, re=0.000, recu=0.000, reip=0.000, cl=1, cld=1, fgs=0, ip=169.254.1.178, so=2013-06-18 04:22:30, dmn=2013-03-21 17:37:32 X-Mirapoint-Loop-Id: 2e714ad8aecf939fa98e9417d6b67cc7 Archived-At: Subject: Re: [netmod] Migrating existing RFCs to NMDA X-BeenThere: netmod@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 Precedence: list List-Id: NETMOD WG list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 20 Jul 2017 12:10:08 -0000 SXQncyB2ZXJ5IGltcG9ydGFudCB0byB1bmRlcnN0YW5kIHRoZSB0aW1lIHBsYW4gb2YgdGhlIFJG QyBiaXMuIAoKV2UgaGF2ZSBhIGRyYWZ0IGF1Z21lbnRpbmcgUkZDNzIyMyhJIGJlbGlldmUgd2Ug YXJlIG5vdCB0aGUgb25seSBvbmUpLCBob3cgc2hvdWxkIHdlIG1ha2UgdGhlIHJlZmVyZW5jZSB0 byBSRkM3MjIzLCBvciBSRkM3MjIzYmlzPwpXaWxsIHRoZSBSRkMgcmV2aXNpb24gYmVjb21lIGEg Y3JpdGljYWwgcG9pbnQgdG8gcHJldmVudCBwcm9ncmVzc2luZyBvdGhlciBkcmFmdD8gCgpCUiwK QW15Cl9fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX18Kt6K8/sjLOiBuZXRt b2QgW25ldG1vZC1ib3VuY2VzQGlldGYub3JnXSC0+rHtIFJvYmVydCBXaWx0b24gW3J3aWx0b25A Y2lzY28uY29tXQq3osvNyrG85DogMjAxN8TqN9TCMjDI1SAxNzozOQrK1bz+yMs6IGFkcmlhbkBv 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<09e401d300a1$4347a5e0$c9d6f1a0$@olddog.co.uk> <98518425-6810-d007-3f95-d387bde95797@cisco.com> <9C5FD3EFA72E1740A3D41BADDE0B461FC7568598@DGGEMA501-MBX.china.huawei.com> From: Robert Wilton Message-ID: <385abdfc-8588-0fe5-6052-be8d9f8fa004@cisco.com> Date: Thu, 20 Jul 2017 14:32:43 +0200 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 10.0; WOW64; rv:52.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/52.2.1 MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: <9C5FD3EFA72E1740A3D41BADDE0B461FC7568598@DGGEMA501-MBX.china.huawei.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=gbk; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Content-Language: en-US Archived-At: Subject: Re: [netmod] Migrating existing RFCs to NMDA X-BeenThere: netmod@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 Precedence: list List-Id: NETMOD WG list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 20 Jul 2017 12:32:58 -0000 Hi Amy, On 20/07/2017 14:09, Yemin (Amy) wrote: > It's very important to understand the time plan of the RFC bis. > > We have a draft augmenting RFC7223(I believe we are not the only one), how should we make the reference to RFC7223, or RFC7223bis? If your module is just augmenting /interfaces/ and /interfaces-state/ then you have no direct dependency on RFC7223-bis. The dependency only exists if your module is augmenting /interfaces-state/statistics/, or any of the leaves in /interfaces-state/ that don't also already exist in /interfaces/. > Will the RFC revision become a critical point to prevent progressing other draft? For some modules, potentially yes. If you send me a pointer to your draft I can check whether you have any dependency on RC7223bis or not. But I totally agree that we need to update the updated drafts out quickly. Thanks, Rob > > > BR, > Amy > ________________________________________ > : netmod [netmod-bounces@ietf.org] Robert Wilton [rwilton@cisco.com] > ʱ: 2017720 17:39 > ռ: adrian@olddog.co.uk; netmod@ietf.org; Martin Bjorklund; Kent Watsen; Phil Shafer; j.schoenwaelder@jacobs-university.de > : Re: [netmod] Migrating existing RFCs to NMDA > > Hi Adrian, > > > On 19/07/2017 17:11, Adrian Farrel wrote: >> Hi, >> >> Rob's useful presentation at >> https://www.ietf.org/proceedings/99/slides/slides-99-netmod-sessa-nmda-qa-01.pdf >> listed a set of RFCs the "need to be updated". > "need to be updated" might have been a bit strong on my slides. > > Really it was the list of RFCs that currently define "foo-state" trees. > For some of these drafts/modules it is a open question whether they get > updated. > > My understanding of the current plan is: > > RFC 6022: YANG Module for NETCONF Monitoring > ietf-netconf-monitoring@2010-10-04.yang defines netconf-state > => Unclear whether this needs to be immediately updated. If it does > then perhaps it could also be updated by draft-dsdt-nmda-netconf-00 (the > proposed protocol updates to NETCONF to support NMDA). > > RFC 7223: A YANG Data Model for Interface Management > ietf-interfaces@2014-05-08.yang defines interface-state > => Martin Bjorklund to issue a bis version. > > RFC 7277: A YANG Data Model for IP Management > ietf-ip@2014-06-16.yang augments interface-state > => Martin Bjorklund to issue a bis version. > > RFC 7317: A YANG Data Model for System Management > ietf-system@2014-08-06.yang defines system-state > => Model update looks to be trivial. Martin Bjorklund is one of the > authors, so hopefully he can help issue a updated version. > > RFC 7895: YANG Module Library > ietf-yang-library@2016-06-21.yang defines module-state > => Kent Watsen already has an ID submitted to NETCONF, hopefully should > get WG adoption today. > > RFC 8040: RESTCONF Protocol > ietf-restconf-monitoring@2017-01-26.yang > ietf-restconf@2017-01-26.yang defines restconf-state > => Unclear whether this needs to be immediately updated. If it does > then perhaps it could also be updated by > draft-dsdt-netconf-restconf-nmda-00 (the proposed protocol updates to > RESTCONF to support NMDA). > > RFC 8022: A YANG Data Model for Routing Management > ietf-ipv4-unicast-routing@2016-11-04.yang > ietf-ipv6-router-advertisements@2016-11-04.yang > ietf-ipv6-unicast-routing@2016-11-04.yang > ietf-routing@2016-11-04.yang defines and augments routing-state > => Rob Wilton to help update models, will get from authors to republish, > Acee Lindem has indicated that he will help. > > >> That's a good first step, but we seem to have run out of magic pixie dust here >> in the depot, so we were wondering how that "need" is going to be converted to >> action. > The NMDA authors will help achieve this. > >> Is there a plan? If not, what is the plan for a plan? > Assuming that the NETCONF, RESTCONF, and YANG libary NMDA updates are > supported for adoption by NETCONF WG, then I expect that we should > hopefully see draft versions of these updated models shortly (before the > next IETF, hopefully sooner than that).. > > Thanks, > Rob > > >> Thanks, >> Adrian >> >> _______________________________________________ >> netmod mailing list >> netmod@ietf.org >> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/netmod >> . >> > _______________________________________________ > netmod mailing list > netmod@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/netmod From nobody Thu Jul 20 05:38:51 2017 Return-Path: X-Original-To: netmod@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: netmod@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id C2FC9131C1E for ; Thu, 20 Jul 2017 05:38:45 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -4.222 X-Spam-Level: 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Server (TLS) id 14.3.301.0; Thu, 20 Jul 2017 13:38:34 +0100 Received: from DGGEMA501-MBX.china.huawei.com ([169.254.1.178]) by DGGEMA403-HUB.china.huawei.com ([10.3.20.44]) with mapi id 14.03.0301.000; Thu, 20 Jul 2017 20:38:28 +0800 From: "Yemin (Amy)" To: Robert Wilton , "adrian@olddog.co.uk" , "netmod@ietf.org" , Martin Bjorklund , Kent Watsen , Phil Shafer , "j.schoenwaelder@jacobs-university.de" Thread-Topic: [netmod] Migrating existing RFCs to NMDA Thread-Index: AdMAoUDaCpsxcfEQRHes9Rm7U1erBwAV73qAABXCART//4JngIAAhrQC Date: Thu, 20 Jul 2017 12:38:28 +0000 Message-ID: <9C5FD3EFA72E1740A3D41BADDE0B461FC75685DF@DGGEMA501-MBX.china.huawei.com> References: <09e401d300a1$4347a5e0$c9d6f1a0$@olddog.co.uk> <98518425-6810-d007-3f95-d387bde95797@cisco.com> <9C5FD3EFA72E1740A3D41BADDE0B461FC7568598@DGGEMA501-MBX.china.huawei.com>, <385abdfc-8588-0fe5-6052-be8d9f8fa004@cisco.com> In-Reply-To: <385abdfc-8588-0fe5-6052-be8d9f8fa004@cisco.com> Accept-Language: zh-CN, en-US Content-Language: zh-CN X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-originating-ip: [10.47.75.186] Content-Type: text/plain; charset="gb2312" Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-CFilter-Loop: Reflected X-Mirapoint-Virus-RAPID-Raw: score=unknown(0), refid=str=0001.0A090203.5970A44C.0058, ss=1, re=0.000, recu=0.000, reip=0.000, cl=1, cld=1, fgs=0, ip=169.254.1.178, so=2013-06-18 04:22:30, dmn=2013-03-21 17:37:32 X-Mirapoint-Loop-Id: 9f28d10dc6d47100c87fcabbfde5824e Archived-At: Subject: Re: [netmod] Migrating existing RFCs to NMDA X-BeenThere: netmod@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 Precedence: list List-Id: NETMOD WG list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 20 Jul 2017 12:38:49 -0000 SGkgUm9iLCAKClVuZm9ydHVuYXRlbHkgb3VyIGRyYWZ0IGF1Z21lbnRzIC9pbnRlcmZhY2VzLXN0 YXRlL3N0YXRpc3RpY3MvIGFuZCAvaW50ZXJmYWNlcy1zdGF0ZS8uIAoKSGVyZSdzIHRoZSBsaW5r IG9mIG91ciBkcmFmdCwgaXQgd2lsbCBiZSB2ZXJ5IG5pY2Ugb2YgeW91IHRvIHJldmlldyBhbmQg 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(Amy)" , "adrian@olddog.co.uk" , "netmod@ietf.org" , Martin Bjorklund , Kent Watsen , Phil Shafer , "j.schoenwaelder@jacobs-university.de" References: <09e401d300a1$4347a5e0$c9d6f1a0$@olddog.co.uk> <98518425-6810-d007-3f95-d387bde95797@cisco.com> <9C5FD3EFA72E1740A3D41BADDE0B461FC7568598@DGGEMA501-MBX.china.huawei.com> <385abdfc-8588-0fe5-6052-be8d9f8fa004@cisco.com> <9C5FD3EFA72E1740A3D41BADDE0B461FC75685DF@DGGEMA501-MBX.china.huawei.com> From: Robert Wilton Message-ID: <8c4c7583-82b7-f8c9-ef9e-d7eab21abc4c@cisco.com> Date: Thu, 20 Jul 2017 14:57:43 +0200 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 10.0; WOW64; rv:52.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/52.2.1 MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: <9C5FD3EFA72E1740A3D41BADDE0B461FC75685DF@DGGEMA501-MBX.china.huawei.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Content-Language: en-US Archived-At: Subject: Re: [netmod] Migrating existing RFCs to NMDA X-BeenThere: netmod@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 Precedence: list List-Id: NETMOD WG list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 20 Jul 2017 12:57:50 -0000 Hi Amy, Augmenting /interfaces-state/ directly isn't a problem. To be NMDA compliant you would just augment /interfaces/ instead. However, if you need to augment /interfaces-state/statistics/ then the NMDA equivalent path will be /interfaces/statistics/ which obviously would have a dependency on 7223bis. Thanks, Rob On 20/07/2017 14:38, Yemin (Amy) wrote: > Hi Rob, > > Unfortunately our draft augments /interfaces-state/statistics/ and /interfaces-state/. > > Here's the link of our draft, it will be very nice of you to review and give further suggestion. Thanks. > https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-ccamp-mw-yang/?include_text=1 > > BR, > Amy > ________________________________________ > 发件人: Robert Wilton [rwilton@cisco.com] > 发送时间: 2017年7月20日 20:32 > 收件人: Yemin (Amy); adrian@olddog.co.uk; netmod@ietf.org; Martin Bjorklund; Kent Watsen; Phil Shafer; j.schoenwaelder@jacobs-university.de > 主题: Re: [netmod] Migrating existing RFCs to NMDA > > Hi Amy, > > On 20/07/2017 14:09, Yemin (Amy) wrote: >> It's very important to understand the time plan of the RFC bis. >> >> We have a draft augmenting RFC7223(I believe we are not the only one), how should we make the reference to RFC7223, or RFC7223bis? > If your module is just augmenting /interfaces/ and /interfaces-state/ > then you have no direct dependency on RFC7223-bis. > > The dependency only exists if your module is augmenting > /interfaces-state/statistics/, or any of the leaves in > /interfaces-state/ that don't also already exist in /interfaces/. > >> Will the RFC revision become a critical point to prevent progressing other draft? > For some modules, potentially yes. > > If you send me a pointer to your draft I can check whether you have any > dependency on RC7223bis or not. > > But I totally agree that we need to update the updated drafts out quickly. > > Thanks, > Rob > > >> >> BR, >> Amy >> ________________________________________ >> 发件人: netmod [netmod-bounces@ietf.org] 代表 Robert Wilton [rwilton@cisco.com] >> 发送时间: 2017年7月20日 17:39 >> 收件人: adrian@olddog.co.uk; netmod@ietf.org; Martin Bjorklund; Kent Watsen; Phil Shafer; j.schoenwaelder@jacobs-university.de >> 主题: Re: [netmod] Migrating existing RFCs to NMDA >> >> Hi Adrian, >> >> >> On 19/07/2017 17:11, Adrian Farrel wrote: >>> Hi, >>> >>> Rob's useful presentation at >>> https://www.ietf.org/proceedings/99/slides/slides-99-netmod-sessa-nmda-qa-01.pdf >>> listed a set of RFCs the "need to be updated". >> "need to be updated" might have been a bit strong on my slides. >> >> Really it was the list of RFCs that currently define "foo-state" trees. >> For some of these drafts/modules it is a open question whether they get >> updated. >> >> My understanding of the current plan is: >> >> RFC 6022: YANG Module for NETCONF Monitoring >> ietf-netconf-monitoring@2010-10-04.yang defines netconf-state >> => Unclear whether this needs to be immediately updated. If it does >> then perhaps it could also be updated by draft-dsdt-nmda-netconf-00 (the >> proposed protocol updates to NETCONF to support NMDA). >> >> RFC 7223: A YANG Data Model for Interface Management >> ietf-interfaces@2014-05-08.yang defines interface-state >> => Martin Bjorklund to issue a bis version. >> >> RFC 7277: A YANG Data Model for IP Management >> ietf-ip@2014-06-16.yang augments interface-state >> => Martin Bjorklund to issue a bis version. >> >> RFC 7317: A YANG Data Model for System Management >> ietf-system@2014-08-06.yang defines system-state >> => Model update looks to be trivial. Martin Bjorklund is one of the >> authors, so hopefully he can help issue a updated version. >> >> RFC 7895: YANG Module Library >> ietf-yang-library@2016-06-21.yang defines module-state >> => Kent Watsen already has an ID submitted to NETCONF, hopefully should >> get WG adoption today. >> >> RFC 8040: RESTCONF Protocol >> ietf-restconf-monitoring@2017-01-26.yang >> ietf-restconf@2017-01-26.yang defines restconf-state >> => Unclear whether this needs to be immediately updated. If it does >> then perhaps it could also be updated by >> draft-dsdt-netconf-restconf-nmda-00 (the proposed protocol updates to >> RESTCONF to support NMDA). >> >> RFC 8022: A YANG Data Model for Routing Management >> ietf-ipv4-unicast-routing@2016-11-04.yang >> ietf-ipv6-router-advertisements@2016-11-04.yang >> ietf-ipv6-unicast-routing@2016-11-04.yang >> ietf-routing@2016-11-04.yang defines and augments routing-state >> => Rob Wilton to help update models, will get from authors to republish, >> Acee Lindem has indicated that he will help. >> >> >>> That's a good first step, but we seem to have run out of magic pixie dust here >>> in the depot, so we were wondering how that "need" is going to be converted to >>> action. >> The NMDA authors will help achieve this. >> >>> Is there a plan? If not, what is the plan for a plan? >> Assuming that the NETCONF, RESTCONF, and YANG libary NMDA updates are >> supported for adoption by NETCONF WG, then I expect that we should >> hopefully see draft versions of these updated models shortly (before the >> next IETF, hopefully sooner than that).. >> >> Thanks, >> Rob >> >> >>> Thanks, >>> Adrian >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> netmod mailing list >>> netmod@ietf.org >>> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/netmod >>> . >>> >> _______________________________________________ >> netmod mailing list >> netmod@ietf.org >> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/netmod From nobody Mon Jul 24 11:17:08 2017 Return-Path: X-Original-To: netmod@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: netmod@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 26D1D12EB99 for ; Mon, 24 Jul 2017 11:17:07 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.9 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.9 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=yumaworks-com.20150623.gappssmtp.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id Qkfjv_vVgMn5 for ; Mon, 24 Jul 2017 11:17:05 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail-wr0-x22b.google.com (mail-wr0-x22b.google.com [IPv6:2a00:1450:400c:c0c::22b]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 7EA6512EB8C for ; Mon, 24 Jul 2017 11:17:05 -0700 (PDT) Received: by mail-wr0-x22b.google.com with SMTP id f21so53047464wrf.5 for ; Mon, 24 Jul 2017 11:17:05 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=yumaworks-com.20150623.gappssmtp.com; s=20150623; h=mime-version:from:date:message-id:subject:to; bh=RW8Pwe50SITfX6FVABqhA5wZM1cEUYbVW3mN4nmgsxw=; b=VDh1RKvI5IeFU75fY+hSKLYB6Iv0JgZXPNbejnuZouZMxB2OP6I4gC/lmdMHvNMHya mmuGpTkAno4dIbt224Vczm3zzeHRl6X2JpkbQckYPoSVbNF7m0JfRxTRsbXNfR/a3VnF 4gc4i86LpYUd3EB/Ik80mOb/Y3wnLaGqTO7b6umsVdVyKEJBcRnDyfZOtjeA9+jOzOfE f1bSCaAPtKl21AzuCjjdO4aDKx5NCzkaxFT4N4hM9fF8PEgnGwDFbRyK3NZwiqW12ztu kfRHzN+c5Yvk2YghgMZrcwgM91h3b2GG2Okdal5ydzy+8EB1D77Ich6lTc6a8qCOYIcy WilQ== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:from:date:message-id:subject:to; bh=RW8Pwe50SITfX6FVABqhA5wZM1cEUYbVW3mN4nmgsxw=; b=DxGn87yVwEQAkU4js5mcdJxTEpzBI1gEsJNhdxlWppVpqFu+ZhSuohuCMJEcNquyyk 3iZH/9VNWqyM8lMmk4ORVU6BF+0VO3SxG4SqwP0kob4jwBu66sDeoi5JPojkVaG2pqCE GTtVauBMzZ0GtWKBkFZiQyQCdH1jdcHtCxUUgpUrHHGtKC0hf0d55jFWX8L9VglIWU4R DIphFy/eQlFiDoCc0bKw9HSNqKLwDoBrf+Z/0xYOFUfOUC0M65OfMDb7kiKQwj7WFH08 mBy7HY/Pi5Jblc77rJwR0hGOG3YtjiBO0TAvj+2UeCc/EdLBu5d6jzyFRvoZD4oP0JER 06DA== X-Gm-Message-State: AIVw111kkhEzzLK9gi4hpuqr2YG30gpRcSHGc7OMz+9cQi/tU8TFs+4m 16TzJ14+pnVEZU6jZ/MgKNPER52Nc75w X-Received: by 10.223.171.79 with SMTP id r15mr11371413wrc.57.1500920223331; Mon, 24 Jul 2017 11:17:03 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.223.152.196 with HTTP; Mon, 24 Jul 2017 11:17:02 -0700 (PDT) From: Andy Bierman Date: Mon, 24 Jul 2017 11:17:02 -0700 Message-ID: To: "netmod@ietf.org" Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="94eb2c1cb818c161310555143850" Archived-At: Subject: [netmod] datastore conformance X-BeenThere: netmod@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 Precedence: list List-Id: NETMOD WG list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 24 Jul 2017 18:17:07 -0000 --94eb2c1cb818c161310555143850 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Hi, I am still concerned that the datastore conformance requirements are under-specified and too server-centric. The YANG definitions defined for NETCONF and RESTCONF operations do not ac tually require the "real" datastore identities to be used by a server. The server implementor has the freedom to replace all of the standard datastores with proprietary definitions. While this provides unlimited flexibility for the server, it also provides unlimited complexity for the client. I think the existing :candidate, :writable-running, and :startup capabilities cover the standard conventional datastores. IMO the MUST be a new capability for the :operational datastore and the exact identityref and semantics for this datastore MUST be supported if the :operational:1.0 capability is advertised. Both NETCONF and RESTCONF can list capabilities so both protocols can advertise this capability URI. Andy --94eb2c1cb818c161310555143850 Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable --001a11492e6c25a070055529cc6c-- From nobody Tue Jul 25 13:07:10 2017 Return-Path: X-Original-To: netmod@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: netmod@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 317F7131ECA for ; Tue, 25 Jul 2017 13:07:08 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.9 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.9 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, RP_MATCHES_RCVD=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id ZwVrA9zHqn6t for ; Tue, 25 Jul 2017 13:07:05 -0700 (PDT) Received: from atlas5.jacobs-university.de (atlas5.jacobs-university.de [212.201.44.20]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher AECDH-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id A9C221317A4 for ; Tue, 25 Jul 2017 13:07:05 -0700 (PDT) Received: from localhost (demetrius5.irc-it.jacobs-university.de [10.70.0.222]) by atlas5.jacobs-university.de (Postfix) with ESMTP id 84B576A5; Tue, 25 Jul 2017 22:07:04 +0200 (CEST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at jacobs-university.de Received: from atlas5.jacobs-university.de ([10.70.0.217]) by localhost (demetrius5.jacobs-university.de [10.70.0.222]) (amavisd-new, port 10032) with ESMTP id KWDNovdhe1fe; Tue, 25 Jul 2017 22:07:02 +0200 (CEST) Received: from hermes.jacobs-university.de (hermes.jacobs-university.de [212.201.44.23]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (Client CN "hermes.jacobs-university.de", Issuer "Jacobs University CA - G01" (verified OK)) by atlas5.jacobs-university.de (Postfix) with ESMTPS; Tue, 25 Jul 2017 22:07:04 +0200 (CEST) Received: from localhost (demetrius3.jacobs-university.de [212.201.44.48]) by hermes.jacobs-university.de (Postfix) with ESMTP id 61341200BA; Tue, 25 Jul 2017 22:07:04 +0200 (CEST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at jacobs-university.de Received: from hermes.jacobs-university.de ([212.201.44.23]) by localhost (demetrius3.jacobs-university.de [212.201.44.32]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id gBQwAsnWmKLp; Tue, 25 Jul 2017 22:07:04 +0200 (CEST) Received: from elstar.local (elstar.jacobs.jacobs-university.de [10.50.231.133]) by hermes.jacobs-university.de (Postfix) with ESMTP id 16A73200B8; Tue, 25 Jul 2017 22:07:04 +0200 (CEST) Received: by elstar.local (Postfix, from userid 501) id 06C423FFD5D6; Tue, 25 Jul 2017 22:07:03 +0200 (CEST) Date: Tue, 25 Jul 2017 22:07:03 +0200 From: Juergen Schoenwaelder To: Andy Bierman Cc: Kent Watsen , "netmod@ietf.org" Message-ID: <20170725200703.GA25857@elstar.local> Reply-To: Juergen Schoenwaelder Mail-Followup-To: Andy Bierman , Kent Watsen , "netmod@ietf.org" References: <3C2EAEEB-9739-4AA5-A72C-DBC810A7BE34@juniper.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: User-Agent: Mutt/1.6.0 (2016-04-01) Archived-At: Subject: Re: [netmod] datastore conformance X-BeenThere: netmod@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 Precedence: list List-Id: NETMOD WG list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 25 Jul 2017 20:07:08 -0000 On Tue, Jul 25, 2017 at 01:01:29PM -0700, Andy Bierman wrote: > > The YANG identityref allows any identity that is derived from the > same base. You keep talking about "the" operational datastore when > in fact your YANG definitions require no such thing. They merely > require any identify with the proper base (i.e, edit-config, > get-data operations) There are standard identities. You implement the standard if you implement the standard identities. There is a standard identity for "the" operational datastore. Yes, you can implement non-standard datastores. This was also true before. Perhaps we need to say more explicitly somewhere implementing NMDA requires to implement at least the and datastore (the ones with the standard identity). Is that what you are looking for? /js -- Juergen Schoenwaelder Jacobs University Bremen gGmbH Phone: +49 421 200 3587 Campus Ring 1 | 28759 Bremen | Germany Fax: +49 421 200 3103 From nobody Tue Jul 25 13:16:31 2017 Return-Path: X-Original-To: netmod@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: netmod@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id E2B21131ED2 for ; Tue, 25 Jul 2017 13:16:29 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.899 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.899 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=yumaworks-com.20150623.gappssmtp.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id AnKl6J8CCHKz for ; Tue, 25 Jul 2017 13:16:28 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail-wr0-x22d.google.com (mail-wr0-x22d.google.com [IPv6:2a00:1450:400c:c0c::22d]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id A3AC4131687 for ; Tue, 25 Jul 2017 13:16:27 -0700 (PDT) Received: by mail-wr0-x22d.google.com with SMTP id k71so69991793wrc.2 for ; Tue, 25 Jul 2017 13:16:27 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=yumaworks-com.20150623.gappssmtp.com; s=20150623; h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:from:date:message-id:subject:to; bh=7MJtyWI+Mu+ppA2wyKvIySoVQ/GHNVkH9pLESv3lUk4=; b=hqySUb1XGjmXPWtP5jYFk1KNIcLq2KMVikGMQb6B65XAoD3AiJA2klTZYXCXL/KZnt FcI0C1sQgN6POEaZsAwb4JwbnMobJyjsxHCafgLRa7aEVWr/zgex3xEtQH/nnNteF+Mv 0PuAuTaAyHPBm1lrVA3G5e19snu+Z2PA5V4BnHmN1rgJaubU3E4y01dBlQ1CFpJ0+F9P yjs/9qmuFu47GhvpNmQw4+pt3tMAtkV4oRDxbYtoNsA+G5nNsh57u0DbKDU1lwQGxmL0 /eeOZO3aKzoOqKh9RidvB72JF9XcdEh2kXTgbHPJrgC2z9EId35cEIx67TzPLQhJ7i0W md8w== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:in-reply-to:references:from:date :message-id:subject:to; bh=7MJtyWI+Mu+ppA2wyKvIySoVQ/GHNVkH9pLESv3lUk4=; b=O/zTfQf4tqzy5ym0IlRwDmJKTXlGEf/N8TwDgWYfJ2FCy4yGIEYwxdHAiUfEr6TXyG dt3artglSwyw/HyNHvS9ALEJqR3+9YK61pkMiqME/S+g/1JF6ZVdFAJr8Ub7W42LC7vY f8mWl2tU5RMHlV4lGD/qewT4mDrKWPqktIpXwUrLyPKNiPequjj+WRnH4o3NnB+hlHy1 0mimzq+LHPEqVJfg9EmRMVWHE4TZQ5beoWQ6bdoQXhujyX6h2lBgbDlQBeI5MzjeGhqM MTVewBsq8Sql10HTq9Mig3GfNj/m1ndaOAeRzHtdeIxvgsSWl/V/tzxZoq+Qi2Qi5fdA lk8g== X-Gm-Message-State: AIVw112qhVe+0/m1hyUT/KXORv1KuQo7ILLwcW3KpoJ8IqGKzse1FK/3 Np6tFkAmlL+rJYGU9d4FEVXSSce2Mglf X-Received: by 10.223.134.39 with SMTP id 36mr16417657wrv.244.1501013786138; Tue, 25 Jul 2017 13:16:26 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.223.152.196 with HTTP; Tue, 25 Jul 2017 13:16:25 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: <20170725200703.GA25857@elstar.local> References: <3C2EAEEB-9739-4AA5-A72C-DBC810A7BE34@juniper.net> <20170725200703.GA25857@elstar.local> From: Andy Bierman Date: Tue, 25 Jul 2017 13:16:25 -0700 Message-ID: To: Juergen Schoenwaelder , Andy Bierman , Kent Watsen , "netmod@ietf.org" Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="001a1146c38087438005552a0185" Archived-At: Subject: Re: [netmod] datastore conformance X-BeenThere: netmod@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 Precedence: list List-Id: NETMOD WG list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 25 Jul 2017 20:16:30 -0000 --001a1146c38087438005552a0185 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" On Tue, Jul 25, 2017 at 1:07 PM, Juergen Schoenwaelder < j.schoenwaelder@jacobs-university.de> wrote: > On Tue, Jul 25, 2017 at 01:01:29PM -0700, Andy Bierman wrote: > > > > The YANG identityref allows any identity that is derived from the > > same base. You keep talking about "the" operational datastore when > > in fact your YANG definitions require no such thing. They merely > > require any identify with the proper base (i.e, edit-config, > > get-data operations) > > There are standard identities. You implement the standard if you > implement the standard identities. There is a standard identity for > "the" operational datastore. Yes, you can implement non-standard > datastores. This was also true before. > > Perhaps we need to say more explicitly somewhere implementing NMDA > requires to implement at least the and > datastore (the ones with the standard identity). Is that what you > are looking for? > Yes -- what does conformance to NMDA mean (if anything)? How does a client know the server claims NMDA conformance? > > /js > > Andy > -- > Juergen Schoenwaelder Jacobs University Bremen gGmbH > Phone: +49 421 200 3587 Campus Ring 1 | 28759 Bremen | Germany > Fax: +49 421 200 3103 > --001a1146c38087438005552a0185 Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

On Tue, Jul 25, 2017 at 2:44 PM, Phil Shaf= er <phil@juniper.net> wrote:
In-Reply-To: References: Date: Wed, 26 Jul 2017 11:27:13 +0200 Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Archived-At: Subject: Re: [netmod] draft-wilton-netmod-interface-properties-00 X-BeenThere: netmod@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 Precedence: list List-Id: NETMOD WG list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 26 Jul 2017 09:27:22 -0000 Hi Rob, I think this is a very useful work and we will probably implement it soon. A few comments: - I support the proposed redesign of "iana-if-type" but I believe this module should in fact be declared historic. For one, the name of the most frequently used type, "ethernetCsmacd", is not only notoriously hard to remember but it is also a misnomer: these days, almost no Ethernet network uses CSMA/CD any more. Instead, "csma-cd" can be another identity that could be added to the mix of bases where necessary. - Interface type identities should be defined in a distributed way and not in a single module as in "iana-if-type". A module defining configuration and state data for a particular technology should also define the corresponding identity or identities. This way, the choice of interface types will always be limited to those supported by a specific server. - In Appendix B I don't understand the comment in the definition of container "encapsulation": what could be the abstract type and how would it aid extensibility? Thanks, Lada Robert Wilton writes: > Hi, > > In the NETMOD session on Wednesday I will spend 5 minutes speaking on > draft-wilton-netmod-interface-properties-00, that has been created due > to discussions with various folks to handle interface type specific > configuration. > > The draft isn't particularly long, 21 pages, two thirds of that is just > examples, and it is presenting a simple idea. > > In particular, it is aiming at solving the problem of when statements > like this: > > augment "/if:interfaces/if:interface" { > when "derived-from-or-self(if:type, 'ianaift:ethernetCsmacd') or > derived-from-or-self(if:type, 'ianaift:ieee8023adLag') or > derived-from-or-self(if:type, 'ianaift:l2vlan') or > derived-from-or-self(if:type, 'ianaift:ifPwType')" { > description "Applies to all Ethernet-like interfaces"; > } > > and instead proposes this: > > augment "/if:interfaces/if:interface" { > when "derived-from(if:type, 'ianaifp:ethernet-like')" { > description > "Applies to all interfaces that derive from the Ethernet-like > interface property."; > } > > The core idea being that new identities are defined to represent > interface properties (like ethernet-like) and the existing interface > types iana-if-types.yang are updated to also derive from the new > interface properties. > > This simplifies the YANG, should make interface based configuration more > future proof, since new interface types can also derive from the > appropriate interface properties. Of course additional interface > properties could also be defined. > > I'm seeking input from the WG as to whether they like this approach, AND > also whether the WG drafts: draft-ietf-netmod-intf-ext-yang-05 and > draft-ietf-netmod-sub-intf-vlan-model-02 should be updated to make use > of this approach (possibly in a future bis revision to avoid delaying > publishing the models). > > Thanks, > Rob > > _______________________________________________ > netmod mailing list > netmod@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/netmod -- Ladislav Lhotka Head, CZ.NIC Labs PGP Key ID: 0xB8F92B08A9F76C67 From nobody Wed Jul 26 03:46:37 2017 Return-Path: X-Original-To: netmod@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: netmod@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id BE8FA131FEE for ; Wed, 26 Jul 2017 03:46:35 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.9 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.9 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id bmAqDxG0QHaY for ; Wed, 26 Jul 2017 03:46:31 -0700 (PDT) Received: from trail.lhotka.name (trail.lhotka.name [77.48.224.143]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 879E0131FE9 for ; Wed, 26 Jul 2017 03:46:31 -0700 (PDT) Received: by trail.lhotka.name (Postfix, from userid 109) id 62AB51820F79; Wed, 26 Jul 2017 12:48:26 +0200 (CEST) Received: from localhost (unknown [195.113.220.110]) by trail.lhotka.name (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 3FBE41820F75; Wed, 26 Jul 2017 12:48:23 +0200 (CEST) From: Ladislav Lhotka To: "Sterne\, Jason \(Nokia - CA\/Ottawa\)" , Kent Watsen , "Acee Lindem \(acee\)" , "netmod\@ietf.org" In-Reply-To: References: <683087D8-C766-4917-A43B-43B319A43466@juniper.net> Date: Wed, 26 Jul 2017 12:46:26 +0200 Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Archived-At: Subject: Re: [netmod] nmda-guidelines-01: value space for config vs state X-BeenThere: netmod@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 Precedence: list List-Id: NETMOD WG list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 26 Jul 2017 10:46:36 -0000 "Sterne, Jason (Nokia - CA/Ottawa)" writes: > OK =E2=80=93 so the same leaf (in the schema) has the same value space in= the conventional datastores and in the operational datastore. That probab= ly makes sense since a single schema describes the model for that leaf whet= her it is accessed in conventional DSes or the operational DS. > > But I think that also means that *if* you need slightly different > value spaces for an item, then you=E2=80=99ll need to split it into multi= ple > leafs in the schema. This is easier said than done: will there be "foo" and "foo-state" as sibling leaves, both present in , as sec. 4.7 indicates? Apart from value space mismatch, there are other potential issues like the one that I mentioned in Prague: "if-feature" applies to configuration but not to state data. An example is in ietf-routing: in config, "router-id" leaf is only present if "router-id" feature is advertised (other servers derive router-id by other means), but in state data "router-id" does not depend on the feature. The assumption made in NMDA that config and state data schemas can be unified is IMO simply broken. YANG, being basically a document-oriented schema language, is not designed to support such tricks. Lada > > Jason > > From: Kent Watsen [mailto:kwatsen@juniper.net] > Sent: Monday, July 24, 2017 20:53 > To: Acee Lindem (acee) ; Sterne, Jason (Nokia - CA/Ottawa= ) ; netmod@ietf.org > Subject: Re: [netmod] nmda-guidelines-01: value space for config vs state > > > Related, revised-datastores-03#section-4.7 says: > > As a result of remnant configuration, the semantic constraints > defined in the data model cannot be relied upon for , > since the system may have remnant configuration whose constraints > were valid with the previous configuration and that are not valid > with the current configuration. Since constraints on "config false" > nodes may refer to "config true" nodes, remnant configuration may > force the violation of those constraints. The constraints that may > not hold include "when", "must", "min-elements", and "max-elements". > Note that syntactic constraints cannot be violated, including > hierarchical organization, identifiers, and type-based constraints. > > The last sentence implies that the value-space must be the same between > nodes in and the conventional datastores. > > Kent // contributor > > > On 7/24/17, 4:35 PM, "netmod on behalf of Acee Lindem (acee)" on behalf of acee@cisco.com> wrote: > > Hi Jason, > > From: "Sterne, Jason (Nokia - CA/Ottawa)" > > Date: Monday, July 24, 2017 at 4:32 PM > To: Acee Lindem >, "netmod@ietf.org= " > > Subject: RE: [netmod] nmda-guidelines-01: value space for config vs state > > Hi Acee, > > OK =E2=80=93 maybe this example isn=E2=80=99t the best. But in the gener= al case my concern about using a super-set would be that it implies all tho= se values are valid input values for an edit-config in the candidate/runnin= g. I can=E2=80=99t immediately see a clean way to indicate that some of th= e values aren=E2=80=99t valid for writing. > > Another possible approach we could use is that if the value space is diff= erent, then it means we should have separate leafs. The model designer co= uld have 1 typedef for the common values (i.e. for applied/intended config)= , and then use a union with additional values for the state/operational lea= f that supports the extra values. > > Right =E2=80=93 if there additional values that the leaf can take, then i= t is probably pure operational state as opposed to applied config. > > Thanks, > Acee > > > Jason > > From: Acee Lindem (acee) [mailto:acee@cisco.com] > Sent: Monday, July 24, 2017 16:22 > To: Sterne, Jason (Nokia - CA/Ottawa) >; netmod@ietf.org > Subject: Re: [netmod] nmda-guidelines-01: value space for config vs state > > Hi Jason, > > From: netmod > on= behalf of "Sterne, Jason (Nokia - CA/Ottawa)" > > Date: Monday, July 17, 2017 at 6:22 AM > To: "netmod@ietf.org" > > Subject: [netmod] nmda-guidelines-01: value space for config vs state > > Hi all, > > A note in Rob Wilton=E2=80=99s presentation today in rtgwg mentioned some= thing about consistency in the value space for config vs state leafs. The = NMDA approach results in the same leaf for both config & state in many case= s (at least for the cases where the separate config & state leafs were only= there to represent intended vs applied config). > > But aren=E2=80=99t there some cases where the value space for state will = be different than the value space for config ? I=E2=80=99m thinking of the= basic admin/oper state for interfaces for example where config may allow e= nable/disable but state may have additional values like =E2=80=98testing=E2= =80=99. If the config & state value spaces aren=E2=80=99t 100% the same, a= re module designers recommended to create a separate state leaf ? > > In this particular example, the leaf you are describing would be read-onl= y system state as opposed to applied state. If there were such a leaf that = could take on a wider range of values of applied state values than the inte= nded state, I=E2=80=99d expect the value space would need to be the superse= t. > > Thanks, > Acee > > > Rgds, > Jason > _______________________________________________ > netmod mailing list > netmod@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/netmod --=20 Ladislav Lhotka Head, CZ.NIC Labs PGP Key ID: 0xB8F92B08A9F76C67 From nobody Wed Jul 26 16:17:21 2017 Return-Path: X-Original-To: netmod@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: netmod@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id CC0F7131ED2 for ; Wed, 26 Jul 2017 16:17:20 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.902 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.902 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, RP_MATCHES_RCVD=-0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 51YzYHPKvfk2 for ; Wed, 26 Jul 2017 16:17:18 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail-send.aviatnet.com (mail-send.aviatnet.com [192.147.115.54]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 1766F131EC3 for ; Wed, 26 Jul 2017 16:17:17 -0700 (PDT) From: Alex Campbell To: Ladislav Lhotka , Robert Wilton , "netmod@ietf.org" Thread-Topic: [netmod] draft-wilton-netmod-interface-properties-00 Thread-Index: AQHS/vUsJ05DidlE7kaQXOhlk7uVyKJmWiiAgABxsTg= Date: Wed, 26 Jul 2017 23:17:16 +0000 Message-ID: <1501111035566.49813@Aviatnet.com> References: , In-Reply-To: Accept-Language: en-NZ, en-US Content-Language: en-NZ X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-ms-exchange-transport-fromentityheader: Hosted x-originating-ip: [10.15.6.10] Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable MIME-Version: 1.0 Archived-At: Subject: Re: [netmod] draft-wilton-netmod-interface-properties-00 X-BeenThere: netmod@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 Precedence: list List-Id: NETMOD WG list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 26 Jul 2017 23:17:21 -0000 Hi,=0A= =0A= I would very much like to see this happen.=0A= =0A= However I recommend at least splitting up "ethernet-like" into "ethernet-ma= c-like" and "ethernet-phy-like". At Aviat we have microwave radio interface= s that behave like Ethernet at the MAC level but have totally different PHY= s. The distinction is also useful for virtual links, such as link aggregati= ons and tunnels.=0A= =0A= ________________________________________=0A= From: netmod on behalf of Ladislav Lhotka =0A= Sent: Wednesday, 26 July 2017 9:27 p.m.=0A= To: Robert Wilton; netmod@ietf.org=0A= Subject: Re: [netmod] draft-wilton-netmod-interface-properties-00=0A= =0A= Hi Rob,=0A= =0A= I think this is a very useful work and we will probably implement it=0A= soon. A few comments:=0A= =0A= - I support the proposed redesign of "iana-if-type" but I believe this=0A= module should in fact be declared historic. For one, the name of the=0A= most frequently used type, "ethernetCsmacd", is not only notoriously=0A= hard to remember but it is also a misnomer: these days, almost no=0A= Ethernet network uses CSMA/CD any more. Instead, "csma-cd" can be=0A= another identity that could be added to the mix of bases where=0A= necessary.=0A= =0A= - Interface type identities should be defined in a distributed way and=0A= not in a single module as in "iana-if-type". A module defining=0A= configuration and state data for a particular technology should also=0A= define the corresponding identity or identities. This way, the choice=0A= of interface types will always be limited to those supported by a=0A= specific server.=0A= =0A= - In Appendix B I don't understand the comment in the definition of=0A= container "encapsulation": what could be the abstract type and how=0A= would it aid extensibility?=0A= =0A= Thanks, Lada=0A= =0A= Robert Wilton writes:=0A= =0A= > Hi,=0A= >=0A= > In the NETMOD session on Wednesday I will spend 5 minutes speaking on=0A= > draft-wilton-netmod-interface-properties-00, that has been created due=0A= > to discussions with various folks to handle interface type specific=0A= > configuration.=0A= >=0A= > The draft isn't particularly long, 21 pages, two thirds of that is just= =0A= > examples, and it is presenting a simple idea.=0A= >=0A= > In particular, it is aiming at solving the problem of when statements=0A= > like this:=0A= >=0A= > augment "/if:interfaces/if:interface" {=0A= > when "derived-from-or-self(if:type, 'ianaift:ethernetCsmacd') or= =0A= > derived-from-or-self(if:type, 'ianaift:ieee8023adLag') or= =0A= > derived-from-or-self(if:type, 'ianaift:l2vlan') or=0A= > derived-from-or-self(if:type, 'ianaift:ifPwType')" {=0A= > description "Applies to all Ethernet-like interfaces";=0A= > }=0A= >=0A= > and instead proposes this:=0A= >=0A= > augment "/if:interfaces/if:interface" {=0A= > when "derived-from(if:type, 'ianaifp:ethernet-like')" {=0A= > description=0A= > "Applies to all interfaces that derive from the Ethernet-like= =0A= > interface property.";=0A= > }=0A= >=0A= > The core idea being that new identities are defined to represent=0A= > interface properties (like ethernet-like) and the existing interface=0A= > types iana-if-types.yang are updated to also derive from the new=0A= > interface properties.=0A= >=0A= > This simplifies the YANG, should make interface based configuration more= =0A= > future proof, since new interface types can also derive from the=0A= > appropriate interface properties. Of course additional interface=0A= > properties could also be defined.=0A= >=0A= > I'm seeking input from the WG as to whether they like this approach, AND= =0A= > also whether the WG drafts: draft-ietf-netmod-intf-ext-yang-05 and=0A= > draft-ietf-netmod-sub-intf-vlan-model-02 should be updated to make use=0A= > of this approach (possibly in a future bis revision to avoid delaying=0A= > publishing the models).=0A= >=0A= > Thanks,=0A= > Rob=0A= >=0A= > _______________________________________________=0A= > netmod mailing list=0A= > netmod@ietf.org=0A= > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/netmod=0A= =0A= --=0A= Ladislav Lhotka=0A= Head, CZ.NIC Labs=0A= PGP Key ID: 0xB8F92B08A9F76C67=0A= =0A= _______________________________________________=0A= netmod mailing list=0A= netmod@ietf.org=0A= https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/netmod=0A= From nobody Thu Jul 27 00:31:51 2017 Return-Path: X-Original-To: netmod@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: netmod@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id D633A132112 for ; Thu, 27 Jul 2017 00:31:49 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.9 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.9 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, RP_MATCHES_RCVD=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id xqSs-bjJJmv1 for ; Thu, 27 Jul 2017 00:31:47 -0700 (PDT) Received: from atlas5.jacobs-university.de (atlas5.jacobs-university.de [212.201.44.20]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher AECDH-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id E91D8129AF9 for ; Thu, 27 Jul 2017 00:31:46 -0700 (PDT) Received: from localhost (demetrius5.irc-it.jacobs-university.de [10.70.0.222]) by atlas5.jacobs-university.de (Postfix) with ESMTP id EE4F06CB; Thu, 27 Jul 2017 09:31:44 +0200 (CEST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at jacobs-university.de Received: from atlas5.jacobs-university.de ([10.70.0.217]) by localhost (demetrius5.jacobs-university.de [10.70.0.222]) (amavisd-new, port 10032) with ESMTP id wVudtkuILZNv; Thu, 27 Jul 2017 09:31:41 +0200 (CEST) Received: from hermes.jacobs-university.de (hermes.jacobs-university.de [212.201.44.23]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (Client CN "hermes.jacobs-university.de", Issuer "Jacobs University CA - G01" (verified OK)) by atlas5.jacobs-university.de (Postfix) with ESMTPS; Thu, 27 Jul 2017 09:31:44 +0200 (CEST) Received: from localhost (demetrius2.jacobs-university.de [212.201.44.47]) by hermes.jacobs-university.de (Postfix) with ESMTP id CA96A200BC; Thu, 27 Jul 2017 09:31:44 +0200 (CEST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at jacobs-university.de Received: from hermes.jacobs-university.de ([212.201.44.23]) by localhost (demetrius2.jacobs-university.de [212.201.44.32]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id GKWPuhFgQBai; Thu, 27 Jul 2017 09:31:44 +0200 (CEST) Received: from elstar.local (elstar.jacobs.jacobs-university.de [10.50.231.133]) by hermes.jacobs-university.de (Postfix) with ESMTP id F2582200BA; Thu, 27 Jul 2017 09:31:43 +0200 (CEST) Received: by elstar.local (Postfix, from userid 501) id CBAC53FFF3E7; Thu, 27 Jul 2017 09:31:43 +0200 (CEST) Date: Thu, 27 Jul 2017 09:31:43 +0200 From: Juergen Schoenwaelder To: Alex Campbell Cc: Ladislav Lhotka , Robert Wilton , "netmod@ietf.org" Message-ID: <20170727073143.GA27636@elstar.local> Reply-To: Juergen Schoenwaelder Mail-Followup-To: Alex Campbell , Ladislav Lhotka , Robert Wilton , "netmod@ietf.org" References: <1501111035566.49813@Aviatnet.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <1501111035566.49813@Aviatnet.com> User-Agent: Mutt/1.6.0 (2016-04-01) Archived-At: Subject: Re: [netmod] draft-wilton-netmod-interface-properties-00 X-BeenThere: netmod@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 Precedence: list List-Id: NETMOD WG list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 27 Jul 2017 07:31:50 -0000 Hi, what is needed is a clear and crisp description what terms such as "ethernet-like", "ethernet-mac-like", "ethernet-phy-like" really mean. Ideally, proposals for terms would include such descriptions, perhaps including examples where these terms apply and where they do not apply. The devil is in the details. /js On Wed, Jul 26, 2017 at 11:17:16PM +0000, Alex Campbell wrote: > Hi, > > I would very much like to see this happen. > > However I recommend at least splitting up "ethernet-like" into "ethernet-mac-like" and "ethernet-phy-like". At Aviat we have microwave radio interfaces that behave like Ethernet at the MAC level but have totally different PHYs. The distinction is also useful for virtual links, such as link aggregations and tunnels. > > ________________________________________ > From: netmod on behalf of Ladislav Lhotka > Sent: Wednesday, 26 July 2017 9:27 p.m. > To: Robert Wilton; netmod@ietf.org > Subject: Re: [netmod] draft-wilton-netmod-interface-properties-00 > > Hi Rob, > > I think this is a very useful work and we will probably implement it > soon. A few comments: > > - I support the proposed redesign of "iana-if-type" but I believe this > module should in fact be declared historic. For one, the name of the > most frequently used type, "ethernetCsmacd", is not only notoriously > hard to remember but it is also a misnomer: these days, almost no > Ethernet network uses CSMA/CD any more. Instead, "csma-cd" can be > another identity that could be added to the mix of bases where > necessary. > > - Interface type identities should be defined in a distributed way and > not in a single module as in "iana-if-type". A module defining > configuration and state data for a particular technology should also > define the corresponding identity or identities. This way, the choice > of interface types will always be limited to those supported by a > specific server. > > - In Appendix B I don't understand the comment in the definition of > container "encapsulation": what could be the abstract type and how > would it aid extensibility? > > Thanks, Lada > > Robert Wilton writes: > > > Hi, > > > > In the NETMOD session on Wednesday I will spend 5 minutes speaking on > > draft-wilton-netmod-interface-properties-00, that has been created due > > to discussions with various folks to handle interface type specific > > configuration. > > > > The draft isn't particularly long, 21 pages, two thirds of that is just > > examples, and it is presenting a simple idea. > > > > In particular, it is aiming at solving the problem of when statements > > like this: > > > > augment "/if:interfaces/if:interface" { > > when "derived-from-or-self(if:type, 'ianaift:ethernetCsmacd') or > > derived-from-or-self(if:type, 'ianaift:ieee8023adLag') or > > derived-from-or-self(if:type, 'ianaift:l2vlan') or > > derived-from-or-self(if:type, 'ianaift:ifPwType')" { > > description "Applies to all Ethernet-like interfaces"; > > } > > > > and instead proposes this: > > > > augment "/if:interfaces/if:interface" { > > when "derived-from(if:type, 'ianaifp:ethernet-like')" { > > description > > "Applies to all interfaces that derive from the Ethernet-like > > interface property."; > > } > > > > The core idea being that new identities are defined to represent > > interface properties (like ethernet-like) and the existing interface > > types iana-if-types.yang are updated to also derive from the new > > interface properties. > > > > This simplifies the YANG, should make interface based configuration more > > future proof, since new interface types can also derive from the > > appropriate interface properties. Of course additional interface > > properties could also be defined. > > > > I'm seeking input from the WG as to whether they like this approach, AND > > also whether the WG drafts: draft-ietf-netmod-intf-ext-yang-05 and > > draft-ietf-netmod-sub-intf-vlan-model-02 should be updated to make use > > of this approach (possibly in a future bis revision to avoid delaying > > publishing the models). > > > > Thanks, > > Rob > > > > _______________________________________________ > > netmod mailing list > > netmod@ietf.org > > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/netmod > > -- > Ladislav Lhotka > Head, CZ.NIC Labs > PGP Key ID: 0xB8F92B08A9F76C67 > > _______________________________________________ > netmod mailing list > netmod@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/netmod > > _______________________________________________ > netmod mailing list > netmod@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/netmod -- Juergen Schoenwaelder Jacobs University Bremen gGmbH Phone: +49 421 200 3587 Campus Ring 1 | 28759 Bremen | Germany Fax: +49 421 200 3103 From nobody Thu Jul 27 02:12:57 2017 Return-Path: X-Original-To: netmod@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: netmod@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 112E9131822 for ; Thu, 27 Jul 2017 02:12:56 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -7 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-7 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_HI=-5, RP_MATCHES_RCVD=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (1024-bit key) header.d=nic.cz Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id IkN69CESLDBf for ; Thu, 27 Jul 2017 02:12:53 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail.nic.cz (mail.nic.cz [IPv6:2001:1488:800:400::400]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 8AE7413188F for ; Thu, 27 Jul 2017 02:12:52 -0700 (PDT) Received: from [IPv6:2001:718:1a02:1:799c:72ce:4320:d6e5] (unknown [IPv6:2001:718:1a02:1:799c:72ce:4320:d6e5]) by mail.nic.cz (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id A58BA62414; Thu, 27 Jul 2017 11:12:50 +0200 (CEST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/simple; d=nic.cz; s=default; t=1501146770; bh=KQ775BT2ao/ptaeetTJdyJ9r9OLLWpwWZotb1mNr92c=; h=From:Date:To; b=GbL/m870bB8r1hrFnCEJGSGwJcXZpt5cxCCaIe0BfYAt3ECIFD4O8FdIwXTXzM3LU b5XtcxEikRkL1p2LjYj6MbUquNoZBIBq2Jv+ssIwk0AgkJ3ObyLZcJyknK23RwSm/6 oRI+aA800JJAt8SJQId7kTbsKVHsdyowq/eOoKPk= Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 10.3 \(3273\)) From: Ladislav Lhotka In-Reply-To: <20170727073143.GA27636@elstar.local> Date: Thu, 27 Jul 2017 11:12:50 +0200 Cc: Alex Campbell , Robert Wilton , "netmod@ietf.org" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Message-Id: <0FD5ED43-E53E-4847-AEB6-DA804630DC59@nic.cz> References: <1501111035566.49813@Aviatnet.com> <20170727073143.GA27636@elstar.local> To: =?utf-8?B?SsO8cmdlbiBTY2jDtm53w6RsZGVy?= X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.3273) X-Virus-Scanned: clamav-milter 0.99.2 at mail X-Virus-Status: Clean Archived-At: Subject: Re: [netmod] draft-wilton-netmod-interface-properties-00 X-BeenThere: netmod@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 Precedence: list List-Id: NETMOD WG list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 27 Jul 2017 09:12:56 -0000 > On 27 Jul 2017, at 09:31, Juergen Schoenwaelder = wrote: >=20 > Hi, >=20 > what is needed is a clear and crisp description what terms such as > "ethernet-like", "ethernet-mac-like", "ethernet-phy-like" really mean. > Ideally, proposals for terms would include such descriptions, perhaps > including examples where these terms apply and where they do not > apply. The devil is in the details. Even better, these identities could be defined along with the = corresponding configuration and state data. =46rom the viewpoint of data = modelling, everything would then be absolutely clear. Lada >=20 > /js >=20 > On Wed, Jul 26, 2017 at 11:17:16PM +0000, Alex Campbell wrote: >> Hi, >>=20 >> I would very much like to see this happen. >>=20 >> However I recommend at least splitting up "ethernet-like" into = "ethernet-mac-like" and "ethernet-phy-like". At Aviat we have microwave = radio interfaces that behave like Ethernet at the MAC level but have = totally different PHYs. The distinction is also useful for virtual = links, such as link aggregations and tunnels. >>=20 >> ________________________________________ >> From: netmod on behalf of Ladislav Lhotka = >> Sent: Wednesday, 26 July 2017 9:27 p.m. >> To: Robert Wilton; netmod@ietf.org >> Subject: Re: [netmod] draft-wilton-netmod-interface-properties-00 >>=20 >> Hi Rob, >>=20 >> I think this is a very useful work and we will probably implement it >> soon. A few comments: >>=20 >> - I support the proposed redesign of "iana-if-type" but I believe = this >> module should in fact be declared historic. For one, the name of the >> most frequently used type, "ethernetCsmacd", is not only notoriously >> hard to remember but it is also a misnomer: these days, almost no >> Ethernet network uses CSMA/CD any more. Instead, "csma-cd" can be >> another identity that could be added to the mix of bases where >> necessary. >>=20 >> - Interface type identities should be defined in a distributed way = and >> not in a single module as in "iana-if-type". A module defining >> configuration and state data for a particular technology should also >> define the corresponding identity or identities. This way, the = choice >> of interface types will always be limited to those supported by a >> specific server. >>=20 >> - In Appendix B I don't understand the comment in the definition of >> container "encapsulation": what could be the abstract type and how >> would it aid extensibility? >>=20 >> Thanks, Lada >>=20 >> Robert Wilton writes: >>=20 >>> Hi, >>>=20 >>> In the NETMOD session on Wednesday I will spend 5 minutes speaking = on >>> draft-wilton-netmod-interface-properties-00, that has been created = due >>> to discussions with various folks to handle interface type specific >>> configuration. >>>=20 >>> The draft isn't particularly long, 21 pages, two thirds of that is = just >>> examples, and it is presenting a simple idea. >>>=20 >>> In particular, it is aiming at solving the problem of when = statements >>> like this: >>>=20 >>> augment "/if:interfaces/if:interface" { >>> when "derived-from-or-self(if:type, 'ianaift:ethernetCsmacd') = or >>> derived-from-or-self(if:type, 'ianaift:ieee8023adLag') = or >>> derived-from-or-self(if:type, 'ianaift:l2vlan') or >>> derived-from-or-self(if:type, 'ianaift:ifPwType')" { >>> description "Applies to all Ethernet-like interfaces"; >>> } >>>=20 >>> and instead proposes this: >>>=20 >>> augment "/if:interfaces/if:interface" { >>> when "derived-from(if:type, 'ianaifp:ethernet-like')" { >>> description >>> "Applies to all interfaces that derive from the = Ethernet-like >>> interface property."; >>> } >>>=20 >>> The core idea being that new identities are defined to represent >>> interface properties (like ethernet-like) and the existing interface >>> types iana-if-types.yang are updated to also derive from the new >>> interface properties. >>>=20 >>> This simplifies the YANG, should make interface based configuration = more >>> future proof, since new interface types can also derive from the >>> appropriate interface properties. Of course additional interface >>> properties could also be defined. >>>=20 >>> I'm seeking input from the WG as to whether they like this approach, = AND >>> also whether the WG drafts: draft-ietf-netmod-intf-ext-yang-05 and >>> draft-ietf-netmod-sub-intf-vlan-model-02 should be updated to make = use >>> of this approach (possibly in a future bis revision to avoid = delaying >>> publishing the models). >>>=20 >>> Thanks, >>> Rob >>>=20 >>> _______________________________________________ >>> netmod mailing list >>> netmod@ietf.org >>> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/netmod >>=20 >> -- >> Ladislav Lhotka >> Head, CZ.NIC Labs >> PGP Key ID: 0xB8F92B08A9F76C67 >>=20 >> _______________________________________________ >> netmod mailing list >> netmod@ietf.org >> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/netmod >>=20 >> _______________________________________________ >> netmod mailing list >> netmod@ietf.org >> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/netmod >=20 > --=20 > Juergen Schoenwaelder Jacobs University Bremen gGmbH > Phone: +49 421 200 3587 Campus Ring 1 | 28759 Bremen | Germany > Fax: +49 421 200 3103 -- Ladislav Lhotka Head, CZ.NIC Labs PGP Key ID: 0xB8F92B08A9F76C67 From nobody Fri Jul 28 03:34:34 2017 Return-Path: X-Original-To: netmod@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: netmod@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3274F1322C0 for ; Fri, 28 Jul 2017 03:34:33 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -14.503 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-14.503 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_HI=-5, RP_MATCHES_RCVD=-0.001, SPF_HELO_PASS=-0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, USER_IN_DEF_DKIM_WL=-7.5] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (1024-bit key) header.d=cisco.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id FjP6XXNLtLK5 for ; Fri, 28 Jul 2017 03:34:30 -0700 (PDT) Received: from aer-iport-4.cisco.com (aer-iport-4.cisco.com [173.38.203.54]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher DHE-RSA-SEED-SHA (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 25A4F1318A8 for ; Fri, 28 Jul 2017 03:34:30 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/simple; d=cisco.com; i=@cisco.com; l=7588; q=dns/txt; s=iport; t=1501238070; x=1502447670; h=subject:to:references:from:message-id:date:mime-version: in-reply-to:content-transfer-encoding; bh=rRmJYazP06AaAHm53XV+t5HBZK+8rd3QcqCDIQj+mBc=; b=O4+sJM17yxYVGA2BM+y1kl31arlf2cR0zaKSrvCK4kSRffkpLJuzc5RY QFrD9Oz730cglwAR6I5aFVmz/PXG2FkQ9DsI+L3edNmZNV5gZIQTjvxhg 02pcpuZ1Dk/AgAtY9ET6znmTt0zswxl+s0NV8sIuyN7/kBtDZcpJp45Zu o=; X-IronPort-AV: E=Sophos;i="5.40,425,1496102400"; d="scan'208";a="656398216" Received: from aer-iport-nat.cisco.com (HELO aer-core-4.cisco.com) ([173.38.203.22]) by aer-iport-4.cisco.com with ESMTP/TLS/DHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384; 28 Jul 2017 10:34:28 +0000 Received: from [10.63.23.66] (dhcp-ensft1-uk-vla370-10-63-23-66.cisco.com [10.63.23.66]) by aer-core-4.cisco.com (8.14.5/8.14.5) with ESMTP id v6SAYS1u002157; Fri, 28 Jul 2017 10:34:28 GMT To: Ladislav Lhotka , "Sterne, Jason (Nokia - CA/Ottawa)" , Kent Watsen , "Acee Lindem (acee)" , "netmod@ietf.org" References: <683087D8-C766-4917-A43B-43B319A43466@juniper.net> From: Robert Wilton Message-ID: <42ce9796-d592-5a29-a516-3f64d60aba45@cisco.com> Date: Fri, 28 Jul 2017 11:34:27 +0100 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 10.0; WOW64; rv:52.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/52.2.1 MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Content-Language: en-US Archived-At: Subject: Re: [netmod] nmda-guidelines-01: value space for config vs state X-BeenThere: netmod@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 Precedence: list List-Id: NETMOD WG list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 28 Jul 2017 10:34:33 -0000 Hi Lada, On 26/07/2017 11:46, Ladislav Lhotka wrote: > "Sterne, Jason (Nokia - CA/Ottawa)" writes: > >> OK – so the same leaf (in the schema) has the same value space in the conventional datastores and in the operational datastore. That probably makes sense since a single schema describes the model for that leaf whether it is accessed in conventional DSes or the operational DS. >> >> But I think that also means that *if* you need slightly different >> value spaces for an item, then you’ll need to split it into multiple >> leafs in the schema. > This is easier said than done: will there be "foo" and "foo-state" as > sibling leaves, both present in , as sec. 4.7 indicates? > > Apart from value space mismatch, there are other potential issues like > the one that I mentioned in Prague: "if-feature" applies to > configuration but not to state data. An example is in ietf-routing: in > config, "router-id" leaf is only present if "router-id" feature is > advertised (other servers derive router-id by other means), but in state > data "router-id" does not depend on the feature. It is perhaps worth noting that the proposed NMDA YANG library allows for different features to be expressed in different datastores. Not that I am actually suggesting that this would be a good solution here. > > The assumption made in NMDA that config and state data schemas can be > unified is IMO simply broken. YANG, being basically a document-oriented > schema language, is not designed to support such tricks. I agree that you cannot align config and state schema values in all cases. However, I think that in the vast majority of cases there is close alignment between the configured value, and what the system is using. Optimizing for this common case should make management systems simpler for the mainline cases. There will always be some exceptions, but that is OK too. For the router-id, I think that my preferred solution would be to: Define the "configurable-router-id" feature, have a single router-id leaf, then put in the description that it is only configurable if the "configurable-router-id" feature is enabled. Possibly, in future, we could extend the YANG language to allow if-feature to be conditionally applied to only config true or config false elements. An alternative solution, that works today, is to just have 2 separate, but co-located, leaves: 1) cfg-router-id, config true, conditional on if-feature. 2) router-id, config false, operational. - In the future, we could define a YANG extension to bind the config and state leaves together in the model (e.g. a related-config statement). But I think that we should see how often this issue turns up in practice before we jump to doing this. Thanks, Rob > Lada > >> Jason >> >> From: Kent Watsen [mailto:kwatsen@juniper.net] >> Sent: Monday, July 24, 2017 20:53 >> To: Acee Lindem (acee) ; Sterne, Jason (Nokia - CA/Ottawa) ; netmod@ietf.org >> Subject: Re: [netmod] nmda-guidelines-01: value space for config vs state >> >> >> Related, revised-datastores-03#section-4.7 says: >> >> As a result of remnant configuration, the semantic constraints >> defined in the data model cannot be relied upon for , >> since the system may have remnant configuration whose constraints >> were valid with the previous configuration and that are not valid >> with the current configuration. Since constraints on "config false" >> nodes may refer to "config true" nodes, remnant configuration may >> force the violation of those constraints. The constraints that may >> not hold include "when", "must", "min-elements", and "max-elements". >> Note that syntactic constraints cannot be violated, including >> hierarchical organization, identifiers, and type-based constraints. >> >> The last sentence implies that the value-space must be the same between >> nodes in and the conventional datastores. >> >> Kent // contributor >> >> >> On 7/24/17, 4:35 PM, "netmod on behalf of Acee Lindem (acee)" on behalf of acee@cisco.com> wrote: >> >> Hi Jason, >> >> From: "Sterne, Jason (Nokia - CA/Ottawa)" > >> Date: Monday, July 24, 2017 at 4:32 PM >> To: Acee Lindem >, "netmod@ietf.org" > >> Subject: RE: [netmod] nmda-guidelines-01: value space for config vs state >> >> Hi Acee, >> >> OK – maybe this example isn’t the best. But in the general case my concern about using a super-set would be that it implies all those values are valid input values for an edit-config in the candidate/running. I can’t immediately see a clean way to indicate that some of the values aren’t valid for writing. >> >> Another possible approach we could use is that if the value space is different, then it means we should have separate leafs. The model designer could have 1 typedef for the common values (i.e. for applied/intended config), and then use a union with additional values for the state/operational leaf that supports the extra values. >> >> Right – if there additional values that the leaf can take, then it is probably pure operational state as opposed to applied config. >> >> Thanks, >> Acee >> >> >> Jason >> >> From: Acee Lindem (acee) [mailto:acee@cisco.com] >> Sent: Monday, July 24, 2017 16:22 >> To: Sterne, Jason (Nokia - CA/Ottawa) >; netmod@ietf.org >> Subject: Re: [netmod] nmda-guidelines-01: value space for config vs state >> >> Hi Jason, >> >> From: netmod > on behalf of "Sterne, Jason (Nokia - CA/Ottawa)" > >> Date: Monday, July 17, 2017 at 6:22 AM >> To: "netmod@ietf.org" > >> Subject: [netmod] nmda-guidelines-01: value space for config vs state >> >> Hi all, >> >> A note in Rob Wilton’s presentation today in rtgwg mentioned something about consistency in the value space for config vs state leafs. The NMDA approach results in the same leaf for both config & state in many cases (at least for the cases where the separate config & state leafs were only there to represent intended vs applied config). >> >> But aren’t there some cases where the value space for state will be different than the value space for config ? I’m thinking of the basic admin/oper state for interfaces for example where config may allow enable/disable but state may have additional values like ‘testing’. If the config & state value spaces aren’t 100% the same, are module designers recommended to create a separate state leaf ? >> >> In this particular example, the leaf you are describing would be read-only system state as opposed to applied state. If there were such a leaf that could take on a wider range of values of applied state values than the intended state, I’d expect the value space would need to be the superset. >> >> Thanks, >> Acee >> >> >> Rgds, >> Jason >> _______________________________________________ >> netmod mailing list >> netmod@ietf.org >> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/netmod From nobody Fri Jul 28 04:24:18 2017 Return-Path: X-Original-To: netmod@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: netmod@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4B2C81322D3 for ; Fri, 28 Jul 2017 04:24:17 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -7.001 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-7.001 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_HI=-5, RP_MATCHES_RCVD=-0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (1024-bit key) header.d=nic.cz Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id g9yft3SCs7lu for ; Fri, 28 Jul 2017 04:24:14 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail.nic.cz (mail.nic.cz [IPv6:2001:1488:800:400::400]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id C2AFC1322D1 for ; Fri, 28 Jul 2017 04:24:13 -0700 (PDT) Received: from [IPv6:2001:718:1a02:1:ec65:75c5:1575:3483] (unknown [IPv6:2001:718:1a02:1:ec65:75c5:1575:3483]) by mail.nic.cz (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 42DF262301; Fri, 28 Jul 2017 13:24:12 +0200 (CEST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/simple; d=nic.cz; s=default; t=1501241052; bh=x3xziNMKOku9t2AlnyVZ7Bz1ndVG/HpdDVPQaYrthw0=; h=From:Date:To; b=lq00UPyV038J5fpt8+z5wim/kF0lQ6zbnXHNiDdkqMjJSpR0e1BI29CwBBGXE8i+r A8IQNBiljNAhtXz1ObaG1NMolQq8h6kHcPza5z+abkczPM5kQ84bV+/64pktOnN1LM BHc39bOAMsV76vIHgwTsQiOLUl3777Dy3hkjXNjc= Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 10.3 \(3273\)) From: Ladislav Lhotka In-Reply-To: <42ce9796-d592-5a29-a516-3f64d60aba45@cisco.com> Date: Fri, 28 Jul 2017 13:24:11 +0200 Cc: "Sterne, Jason (Nokia - CA/Ottawa)" , Kent Watsen , "Acee Lindem (acee)" , "netmod@ietf.org" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Message-Id: <31EBCB51-2606-494B-803C-32B20A30F33F@nic.cz> References: <683087D8-C766-4917-A43B-43B319A43466@juniper.net> <42ce9796-d592-5a29-a516-3f64d60aba45@cisco.com> To: Robert Wilton X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.3273) X-Virus-Scanned: clamav-milter 0.99.2 at mail X-Virus-Status: Clean Archived-At: Subject: Re: [netmod] nmda-guidelines-01: value space for config vs state X-BeenThere: netmod@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 Precedence: list List-Id: NETMOD WG list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 28 Jul 2017 11:24:17 -0000 Hi Rob, > On 28 Jul 2017, at 12:34, Robert Wilton wrote: >=20 > Hi Lada, >=20 >=20 > On 26/07/2017 11:46, Ladislav Lhotka wrote: >> "Sterne, Jason (Nokia - CA/Ottawa)" writes: >>=20 >>> OK =E2=80=93 so the same leaf (in the schema) has the same value = space in the conventional datastores and in the operational datastore. = That probably makes sense since a single schema describes the model for = that leaf whether it is accessed in conventional DSes or the operational = DS. >>>=20 >>> But I think that also means that *if* you need slightly different >>> value spaces for an item, then you=E2=80=99ll need to split it into = multiple >>> leafs in the schema. >> This is easier said than done: will there be "foo" and "foo-state" as >> sibling leaves, both present in , as sec. 4.7 indicates? >>=20 >> Apart from value space mismatch, there are other potential issues = like >> the one that I mentioned in Prague: "if-feature" applies to >> configuration but not to state data. An example is in ietf-routing: = in >> config, "router-id" leaf is only present if "router-id" feature is >> advertised (other servers derive router-id by other means), but in = state >> data "router-id" does not depend on the feature. > It is perhaps worth noting that the proposed NMDA YANG library allows = for different features to be expressed in different datastores. Not = that I am actually suggesting that this would be a good solution here. >=20 >>=20 >> The assumption made in NMDA that config and state data schemas can be >> unified is IMO simply broken. YANG, being basically a = document-oriented >> schema language, is not designed to support such tricks. > I agree that you cannot align config and state schema values in all = cases. However, I think that in the vast majority of cases there is = close alignment between the configured value, and what the system is = using. Optimizing for this common case should make management systems = simpler for the mainline cases. There will always be some exceptions, = but that is OK too. I agree that there is a close alignment but then I guess NETMOD should = have started with a different approach, perhaps object-oriented rather = than document-oriented, where configuration could play the role of = "methods" intended for changing the object's state. (If Randy Presuhn = was reading this, he would probably refer to certain ancient = technologies at this point.:-) >=20 > For the router-id, I think that my preferred solution would be to: > Define the "configurable-router-id" feature, have a single router-id = leaf, then put in the description that it is only configurable if the = "configurable-router-id" feature is enabled. >=20 > Possibly, in future, we could extend the YANG language to allow = if-feature to be conditionally applied to only config true or config = false elements. It is quite remarkable that formalisms closely related to YANG (W3C XML = Schema, RELAX NG/Schematron/DSDL, XPath) were all initially relatively = simple and elegant (albeit limited) and became popular, but subsequent = consortia-driven "improvements" made them so complex that nobody = understands the new versions any more, and only the old versions remain = in use. I am concerned that YANG is now bound to the same path. Lada >=20 > An alternative solution, that works today, is to just have 2 separate, = but co-located, leaves: > 1) cfg-router-id, config true, conditional on if-feature. > 2) router-id, config false, operational. > - In the future, we could define a YANG extension to bind the config = and state leaves together in the model (e.g. a related-config = statement). But I think that we should see how often this issue turns = up in practice before we jump to doing this. >=20 > Thanks, > Rob >=20 >> Lada >>=20 >>> Jason >>>=20 >>> From: Kent Watsen [mailto:kwatsen@juniper.net] >>> Sent: Monday, July 24, 2017 20:53 >>> To: Acee Lindem (acee) ; Sterne, Jason (Nokia - = CA/Ottawa) ; netmod@ietf.org >>> Subject: Re: [netmod] nmda-guidelines-01: value space for config vs = state >>>=20 >>>=20 >>> Related, revised-datastores-03#section-4.7 says: >>>=20 >>> As a result of remnant configuration, the semantic constraints >>> defined in the data model cannot be relied upon for = , >>> since the system may have remnant configuration whose constraints >>> were valid with the previous configuration and that are not valid >>> with the current configuration. Since constraints on "config = false" >>> nodes may refer to "config true" nodes, remnant configuration may >>> force the violation of those constraints. The constraints that = may >>> not hold include "when", "must", "min-elements", and = "max-elements". >>> Note that syntactic constraints cannot be violated, including >>> hierarchical organization, identifiers, and type-based = constraints. >>>=20 >>> The last sentence implies that the value-space must be the same = between >>> nodes in and the conventional datastores. >>>=20 >>> Kent // contributor >>>=20 >>>=20 >>> On 7/24/17, 4:35 PM, "netmod on behalf of Acee Lindem (acee)" = on behalf of = acee@cisco.com> wrote: >>>=20 >>> Hi Jason, >>>=20 >>> From: "Sterne, Jason (Nokia - CA/Ottawa)" = > >>> Date: Monday, July 24, 2017 at 4:32 PM >>> To: Acee Lindem >, = "netmod@ietf.org" = > >>> Subject: RE: [netmod] nmda-guidelines-01: value space for config vs = state >>>=20 >>> Hi Acee, >>>=20 >>> OK =E2=80=93 maybe this example isn=E2=80=99t the best. But in the = general case my concern about using a super-set would be that it implies = all those values are valid input values for an edit-config in the = candidate/running. I can=E2=80=99t immediately see a clean way to = indicate that some of the values aren=E2=80=99t valid for writing. >>>=20 >>> Another possible approach we could use is that if the value space is = different, then it means we should have separate leafs. The model = designer could have 1 typedef for the common values (i.e. for = applied/intended config), and then use a union with additional values = for the state/operational leaf that supports the extra values. >>>=20 >>> Right =E2=80=93 if there additional values that the leaf can take, = then it is probably pure operational state as opposed to applied config. >>>=20 >>> Thanks, >>> Acee >>>=20 >>>=20 >>> Jason >>>=20 >>> From: Acee Lindem (acee) [mailto:acee@cisco.com] >>> Sent: Monday, July 24, 2017 16:22 >>> To: Sterne, Jason (Nokia - CA/Ottawa) = >; = netmod@ietf.org >>> Subject: Re: [netmod] nmda-guidelines-01: value space for config vs = state >>>=20 >>> Hi Jason, >>>=20 >>> From: netmod = > on behalf of = "Sterne, Jason (Nokia - CA/Ottawa)" = > >>> Date: Monday, July 17, 2017 at 6:22 AM >>> To: "netmod@ietf.org" = > >>> Subject: [netmod] nmda-guidelines-01: value space for config vs = state >>>=20 >>> Hi all, >>>=20 >>> A note in Rob Wilton=E2=80=99s presentation today in rtgwg mentioned = something about consistency in the value space for config vs state = leafs. The NMDA approach results in the same leaf for both config & = state in many cases (at least for the cases where the separate config & = state leafs were only there to represent intended vs applied config). >>>=20 >>> But aren=E2=80=99t there some cases where the value space for state = will be different than the value space for config ? I=E2=80=99m = thinking of the basic admin/oper state for interfaces for example where = config may allow enable/disable but state may have additional values = like =E2=80=98testing=E2=80=99. If the config & state value spaces = aren=E2=80=99t 100% the same, are module designers recommended to create = a separate state leaf ? >>>=20 >>> In this particular example, the leaf you are describing would be = read-only system state as opposed to applied state. If there were such a = leaf that could take on a wider range of values of applied state values = than the intended state, I=E2=80=99d expect the value space would need = to be the superset. >>>=20 >>> Thanks, >>> Acee >>>=20 >>>=20 >>> Rgds, >>> Jason >>> _______________________________________________ >>> netmod mailing list >>> netmod@ietf.org >>> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/netmod -- Ladislav Lhotka Head, CZ.NIC Labs PGP Key ID: 0xB8F92B08A9F76C67 From nobody Fri Jul 28 08:11:49 2017 Return-Path: X-Original-To: netmod@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: netmod@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 29AD3132130 for ; Fri, 28 Jul 2017 08:11:48 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.022 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.022 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_H3=-0.01, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_WL=-0.01, SPF_HELO_PASS=-0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); 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DIR:OUT; SFP:1102; SCL:1; SRVR:CY1PR0501MB1145; H:CY1PR0501MB1450.namprd05.prod.outlook.com; FPR:; SPF:None; PTR:InfoNoRecords; A:1; MX:1; LANG:en; received-spf: None (protection.outlook.com: juniper.net does not designate permitted sender hosts) spamdiagnosticoutput: 1:99 spamdiagnosticmetadata: NSPM Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-ID: <9DAAEC5B01C78347AF63378A65339F81@namprd05.prod.outlook.com> Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-OriginatorOrg: juniper.net X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-originalarrivaltime: 28 Jul 2017 15:11:45.1385 (UTC) X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-fromentityheader: Hosted X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-id: bea78b3c-4cdb-4130-854a-1d193232e5f4 X-MS-Exchange-Transport-CrossTenantHeadersStamped: CY1PR0501MB1145 Archived-At: Subject: Re: [netmod] nmda-guidelines-01: value space for config vs state X-BeenThere: netmod@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 Precedence: list List-Id: NETMOD WG list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 28 Jul 2017 15:11:48 -0000 DQoNCkhpIExhZGEsDQoNCkkgYWdyZWUgdGhhdCB0aGVyZSBpcyBhIGNsb3NlIGFsaWdubWVudCBi dXQgdGhlbiBJIGd1ZXNzIE5FVE1PRCBzaG91bGQgaGF2ZSBzdGFydGVkIHdpdGggYSBkaWZmZXJl bnQgYXBwcm9hY2gsIHBlcmhhcHMgb2JqZWN0LW9yaWVudGVkIHJhdGhlciB0aGFuIGRvY3VtZW50 LW9yaWVudGVkLCB3aGVyZSBjb25maWd1cmF0aW9uIGNvdWxkIHBsYXkgdGhlIHJvbGUgb2YgIm1l dGhvZHMiIGludGVuZGVkIGZvciBjaGFuZ2luZyB0aGUgb2JqZWN0J3Mgc3RhdGUuIChJZiBSYW5k eSBQcmVzdWhuIHdhcyByZWFkaW5nIHRoaXMsIGhlIHdvdWxkIHByb2JhYmx5IHJlZmVyIHRvIGNl cnRhaW4gYW5jaWVudCB0ZWNobm9sb2dpZXMgYXQgdGhpcyBwb2ludC46LSkNCg0KPEtFTlQ+IEkg anVzdCBhZGRlZCBodHRwczovL2dpdGh1Yi5jb20vbmV0bW9kLXdnL3lhbmctbmV4dC9pc3N1ZXMv MjUuICBOb3RlLA0KdGhpcyB3b3VsZCBkZWZpbml0ZWx5IGJlIGluIGEgWUFORyAyLjAgKGlmIGRv bmUgYXQgYWxsKSwgYXMgb3Bwb3NlIHRvIGluIGENCllBTkcgMS4yLg0KDQoNCg0KSXQgaXMgcXVp dGUgcmVtYXJrYWJsZSB0aGF0IGZvcm1hbGlzbXMgY2xvc2VseSByZWxhdGVkIHRvIFlBTkcgKFcz QyBYTUwgU2NoZW1hLCBSRUxBWCBORy9TY2hlbWF0cm9uL0RTREwsIFhQYXRoKSB3ZXJlIGFsbCBp bml0aWFsbHkgcmVsYXRpdmVseSBzaW1wbGUgYW5kIGVsZWdhbnQgKGFsYmVpdCBsaW1pdGVkKSBh bmQgYmVjYW1lIHBvcHVsYXIsIGJ1dCBzdWJzZXF1ZW50IGNvbnNvcnRpYS1kcml2ZW4gImltcHJv dmVtZW50cyIgbWFkZSB0aGVtIHNvIGNvbXBsZXggdGhhdCBub2JvZHkgdW5kZXJzdGFuZHMgdGhl IG5ldyB2ZXJzaW9ucyBhbnkgbW9yZSwgYW5kIG9ubHkgdGhlIG9sZCB2ZXJzaW9ucyByZW1haW4g aW4gdXNlLiBJIGFtIGNvbmNlcm5lZCB0aGF0IFlBTkcgaXMgbm93IGJvdW5kIHRvIHRoZSBzYW1l IHBhdGguDQoNCjxLRU5UPiBUaGlzIGlzIGFuIGltcG9ydGFudCBwb2ludC4gIFBlcmhhcHMgeW91 J3JlIHNheWluZyB0aGF0IGl0J3MgYmV0dGVyIGZvcg0KdXMgdG8gb2Jzb2xldGUvY2FubmliYWxp emUgb3Vyc2VsdmVzIHRoYW4gcGFzc2l2ZWx5IHdhaXRpbmcgZm9yIGl0IHRvIGhhcHBlbi4NCkZX SVcsIGluIHRlcm1zIG9mIGNvbXBsZXhpdHksIEkgdGhpbmsgdGhhdCBzY2hlbWEtbW91bnQgaW4g cGFydGljdWxhciBoYXMgDQpwdXNoZWQgdGhlIFlBTkctY29tcGxleGl0eSBlbnZlbG9wZSBtb3Jl IHNvIHRoYW4gYW55IG90aGVyIHJlY2VudCBhY3Rpdml0eS4NCg0KDQoNCg0K From nobody Fri Jul 28 08:12:37 2017 Return-Path: X-Original-To: netmod@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: netmod@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 34C0713212F; 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c=relaxed/simple; d=cisco.com; i=@cisco.com; l=3686; q=dns/txt; s=iport; t=1501254738; x=1502464338; h=subject:references:to:cc:from:message-id:date: mime-version:in-reply-to; bh=9J/Hl+U/O+O6gR1rhdrhVlbri5waHVjF9saY1A9PBDw=; b=mobE25dKNXDzFhi+Qpdn5whxvN6+74JdIJkFP0xu/T9+lLyfORGl67RU k+vqNaak63lXCfhvsik13j6wPHYDrzq1LLOn7yugjT2upOHjrKNYX2er5 rFFc40D8C823JEnAoaXRkdSnlzmaN9zMTwVQAd19i9scozMTb8LebC1TD Y=; X-IronPort-AV: E=Sophos;i="5.40,425,1496102400"; d="scan'208,217";a="696128073" Received: from aer-iport-nat.cisco.com (HELO aer-core-2.cisco.com) ([173.38.203.22]) by aer-iport-1.cisco.com with ESMTP/TLS/DHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384; 28 Jul 2017 15:12:16 +0000 Received: from [10.55.221.36] (ams-bclaise-nitro3.cisco.com [10.55.221.36]) by aer-core-2.cisco.com (8.14.5/8.14.5) with ESMTP id v6SFCGau000467; Fri, 28 Jul 2017 15:12:16 GMT References: <0f4b088e-72f1-5b2f-6c08-9b7e250f468e@cisco.com> To: NETMOD Working Group , "ops-area@ietf.org" From: Benoit Claise X-Forwarded-Message-Id: <0f4b088e-72f1-5b2f-6c08-9b7e250f468e@cisco.com> Message-ID: <6713e263-f1a2-70f2-2c78-e34075a33298@cisco.com> Date: Fri, 28 Jul 2017 17:12:17 +0200 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 6.1; WOW64; rv:52.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/52.2.1 MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: <0f4b088e-72f1-5b2f-6c08-9b7e250f468e@cisco.com> Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="------------3A5EE1249BB89E45EE136180" Content-Language: en-US Archived-At: Subject: [netmod] Fwd: YANG Catalog Latest Development (IETF 99 Hackathon) X-BeenThere: netmod@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 Precedence: list List-Id: NETMOD WG list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 28 Jul 2017 15:12:22 -0000 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --------------3A5EE1249BB89E45EE136180 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=windows-1252; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Dear all, [sorry for the cross posting] Following Joe's yangcatalog presentations in both the OPSAREA and NETMOD WG meetings, here are some more information on the latest developments. Feedback welcome. Regards, Benoit -------- Forwarded Message -------- Subject: YANG Catalog Latest Development (IETF 99 Hackathon) Date: Fri, 28 Jul 2017 17:05:35 +0200 From: Benoit Claise To: announce@yangcatalog.org Dear all, On behalf of the full team of dedicated people. http://www.claise.be/2017/07/yang-catalog-latest-development-ietf-99-hackathon/ Regards, Joe and Benoit _______________________________________________ Yangcatalog-announce@yangcatalog.org mailing list https://marcuscom.com/mailman/listinfo/yangcatalog-announce To unsubscribe, send any mail to "Yangcatalog-announce-unsubscribe@yangcatalog.org" . --------------3A5EE1249BB89E45EE136180 Content-Type: text/html; charset=windows-1252 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Dear all,

[sorry for the cross posting]
Following Joe's yangcatalog presentations in both the OPSAREA and NETMOD WG meetings, here are some more information on the latest developments.
Feedback welcome.

Regards, Benoit


-------- Forwarded Message --------
Subject: YANG Catalog Latest Development (IETF 99 Hackathon)
Date: Fri, 28 Jul 2017 17:05:35 +0200
From: Benoit Claise <bclaise@cisco.com>
To: announce@yangcatalog.org 


Dear all,

On behalf of the full team of dedicated people.
http://www.claise.be/2017/07/yang-catalog-latest-development-ietf-99-hackathon/

Regards, Joe and Benoit


_______________________________________________
Yangcatalog-announce@yangcatalog.org mailing list
https://marcuscom.com/mailman/listinfo/yangcatalog-announce
To unsubscribe, send any mail to "Yangcatalog-announce-unsubscribe@yangcatalog.org"
.
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[128.107.151.25]) by smtp.gmail.com with ESMTPSA id s186sm19212638oia.6.2017.07.28.11.05.13 (version=TLS1 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-AES128-SHA bits=128/128); Fri, 28 Jul 2017 11:05:14 -0700 (PDT) Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="Apple-Mail=_871EDE7B-4BC7-474B-9CCF-89264CB30784" Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 9.3 \(3124\)) From: Mahesh Jethanandani In-Reply-To: <42ce9796-d592-5a29-a516-3f64d60aba45@cisco.com> Date: Fri, 28 Jul 2017 11:05:26 -0700 Cc: Ladislav Lhotka , "Sterne, Jason (Nokia - CA/Ottawa)" , Kent Watsen , "Acee Lindem (acee)" , "netmod@ietf.org" Message-Id: <21D681E2-B8C1-4798-B1D5-B1D13536DFA0@gmail.com> References: <683087D8-C766-4917-A43B-43B319A43466@juniper.net> <42ce9796-d592-5a29-a516-3f64d60aba45@cisco.com> To: Robert Wilton X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.3124) Archived-At: Subject: Re: [netmod] nmda-guidelines-01: value space for config vs state X-BeenThere: netmod@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 Precedence: list List-Id: NETMOD WG list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 28 Jul 2017 18:05:23 -0000 --Apple-Mail=_871EDE7B-4BC7-474B-9CCF-89264CB30784 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 > On Jul 28, 2017, at 3:34 AM, Robert Wilton wrote: >=20 > Hi Lada, >=20 >=20 > On 26/07/2017 11:46, Ladislav Lhotka wrote: >> "Sterne, Jason (Nokia - CA/Ottawa)" > writes: >>=20 >>> OK =E2=80=93 so the same leaf (in the schema) has the same value = space in the conventional datastores and in the operational datastore. = That probably makes sense since a single schema describes the model for = that leaf whether it is accessed in conventional DSes or the operational = DS. >>>=20 >>> But I think that also means that *if* you need slightly different >>> value spaces for an item, then you=E2=80=99ll need to split it into = multiple >>> leafs in the schema. >> This is easier said than done: will there be "foo" and "foo-state" as >> sibling leaves, both present in , as sec. 4.7 indicates? >>=20 >> Apart from value space mismatch, there are other potential issues = like >> the one that I mentioned in Prague: "if-feature" applies to >> configuration but not to state data. An example is in ietf-routing: = in >> config, "router-id" leaf is only present if "router-id" feature is >> advertised (other servers derive router-id by other means), but in = state >> data "router-id" does not depend on the feature. > It is perhaps worth noting that the proposed NMDA YANG library allows = for different features to be expressed in different datastores. Not = that I am actually suggesting that this would be a good solution here. >=20 >>=20 >> The assumption made in NMDA that config and state data schemas can be >> unified is IMO simply broken. YANG, being basically a = document-oriented >> schema language, is not designed to support such tricks. > I agree that you cannot align config and state schema values in all = cases. However, I think that in the vast majority of cases there is = close alignment between the configured value, and what the system is = using. Optimizing for this common case should make management systems = simpler for the mainline cases. There will always be some exceptions, = but that is OK too. Is this true for if-feature statement only? What happens if I have a =E2=80=98must' statement that is written for = validating configuration? Will it be enforced on operational datastore? >=20 > For the router-id, I think that my preferred solution would be to: > Define the "configurable-router-id" feature, have a single router-id = leaf, then put in the description that it is only configurable if the = "configurable-router-id" feature is enabled. >=20 > Possibly, in future, we could extend the YANG language to allow = if-feature to be conditionally applied to only config true or config = false elements. >=20 > An alternative solution, that works today, is to just have 2 separate, = but co-located, leaves: > 1) cfg-router-id, config true, conditional on if-feature. > 2) router-id, config false, operational. > - In the future, we could define a YANG extension to bind the config = and state leaves together in the model (e.g. a related-config = statement). But I think that we should see how often this issue turns = up in practice before we jump to doing this. >=20 > Thanks, > Rob >=20 >> Lada >>=20 >>> Jason >>>=20 >>> From: Kent Watsen [mailto:kwatsen@juniper.net] >>> Sent: Monday, July 24, 2017 20:53 >>> To: Acee Lindem (acee) ; Sterne, Jason (Nokia - = CA/Ottawa) ; netmod@ietf.org >>> Subject: Re: [netmod] nmda-guidelines-01: value space for config vs = state >>>=20 >>>=20 >>> Related, revised-datastores-03#section-4.7 says: >>>=20 >>> As a result of remnant configuration, the semantic constraints >>> defined in the data model cannot be relied upon for = , >>> since the system may have remnant configuration whose constraints >>> were valid with the previous configuration and that are not valid >>> with the current configuration. Since constraints on "config = false" >>> nodes may refer to "config true" nodes, remnant configuration may >>> force the violation of those constraints. The constraints that = may >>> not hold include "when", "must", "min-elements", and = "max-elements". >>> Note that syntactic constraints cannot be violated, including >>> hierarchical organization, identifiers, and type-based = constraints. >>>=20 >>> The last sentence implies that the value-space must be the same = between >>> nodes in and the conventional datastores. >>>=20 >>> Kent // contributor >>>=20 >>>=20 >>> On 7/24/17, 4:35 PM, "netmod on behalf of Acee Lindem (acee)" = > on behalf of acee@cisco.com = >> = wrote: >>>=20 >>> Hi Jason, >>>=20 >>> From: "Sterne, Jason (Nokia - CA/Ottawa)" >> >>> Date: Monday, July 24, 2017 at 4:32 PM >>> To: Acee Lindem >>, = "netmod@ietf.org >" >> >>> Subject: RE: [netmod] nmda-guidelines-01: value space for config vs = state >>>=20 >>> Hi Acee, >>>=20 >>> OK =E2=80=93 maybe this example isn=E2=80=99t the best. But in the = general case my concern about using a super-set would be that it implies = all those values are valid input values for an edit-config in the = candidate/running. I can=E2=80=99t immediately see a clean way to = indicate that some of the values aren=E2=80=99t valid for writing. >>>=20 >>> Another possible approach we could use is that if the value space is = different, then it means we should have separate leafs. The model = designer could have 1 typedef for the common values (i.e. for = applied/intended config), and then use a union with additional values = for the state/operational leaf that supports the extra values. >>>=20 >>> Right =E2=80=93 if there additional values that the leaf can take, = then it is probably pure operational state as opposed to applied config. >>>=20 >>> Thanks, >>> Acee >>>=20 >>>=20 >>> Jason >>>=20 >>> From: Acee Lindem (acee) [mailto:acee@cisco.com = ] >>> Sent: Monday, July 24, 2017 16:22 >>> To: Sterne, Jason (Nokia - CA/Ottawa) >>; netmod@ietf.org = > >>> Subject: Re: [netmod] nmda-guidelines-01: value space for config vs = state >>>=20 >>> Hi Jason, >>>=20 >>> From: netmod >> on behalf of "Sterne, Jason (Nokia - = CA/Ottawa)" >> >>> Date: Monday, July 17, 2017 at 6:22 AM >>> To: "netmod@ietf.org >" >> >>> Subject: [netmod] nmda-guidelines-01: value space for config vs = state >>>=20 >>> Hi all, >>>=20 >>> A note in Rob Wilton=E2=80=99s presentation today in rtgwg mentioned = something about consistency in the value space for config vs state = leafs. The NMDA approach results in the same leaf for both config & = state in many cases (at least for the cases where the separate config & = state leafs were only there to represent intended vs applied config). >>>=20 >>> But aren=E2=80=99t there some cases where the value space for state = will be different than the value space for config ? I=E2=80=99m thinking = of the basic admin/oper state for interfaces for example where config = may allow enable/disable but state may have additional values like = =E2=80=98testing=E2=80=99. If the config & state value spaces aren=E2=80=99= t 100% the same, are module designers recommended to create a separate = state leaf ? >>>=20 >>> In this particular example, the leaf you are describing would be = read-only system state as opposed to applied state. If there were such a = leaf that could take on a wider range of values of applied state values = than the intended state, I=E2=80=99d expect the value space would need = to be the superset. >>>=20 >>> Thanks, >>> Acee >>>=20 >>>=20 >>> Rgds, >>> Jason >>> _______________________________________________ >>> netmod mailing list >>> netmod@ietf.org >>> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/netmod >=20 > _______________________________________________ > netmod mailing list > netmod@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/netmod = Mahesh Jethanandani mjethanandani@gmail.com --Apple-Mail=_871EDE7B-4BC7-474B-9CCF-89264CB30784 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/html; charset=utf-8
On Jul 28, 2017, at 3:34 AM, Robert Wilton <rwilton@cisco.com> = wrote:

Hi Lada,


On 26/07/2017 = 11:46, Ladislav Lhotka wrote:
"Sterne, Jason (Nokia - CA/Ottawa)" <jason.sterne@nokia.com> writes:

OK =E2=80=93 so the same = leaf (in the schema) has the same value space in the conventional = datastores and in the operational datastore.  That probably makes = sense since a single schema describes the model for that leaf whether it = is accessed in conventional DSes or the operational DS.

But I think that also means that *if* you need slightly = different
value spaces for an item, then you=E2=80=99ll = need to split it into multiple
leafs in the schema.
This is easier said than done: will there be = "foo" and "foo-state" as
sibling leaves, both present in = <operational>, as sec. 4.7 indicates?

Apart from value space mismatch, there are other potential = issues like
the one that I mentioned in Prague: = "if-feature" applies to
configuration but not to state = data. An example is in ietf-routing: in
config, = "router-id" leaf is only present if "router-id" feature is
advertised (other servers derive router-id by other means), = but in state
data "router-id" does not depend on the = feature.
It is perhaps worth = noting that the proposed NMDA YANG library allows for different features = to be expressed in different datastores.  Not that I am actually = suggesting that this would be a good solution here.


The assumption made in NMDA that config = and state data schemas can be
unified is IMO simply = broken. YANG, being basically a document-oriented
schema = language, is not designed to support such tricks.
I agree that you cannot = align config and state schema values in all cases.  However, I = think that in the vast majority of cases there is close alignment = between the configured value, and what the system is using. Optimizing = for this common case should make management systems simpler for the = mainline cases.  There will always be some exceptions, but that is = OK too.

Is this true for = if-feature statement only?

What happens if I have a =E2=80=98must' statement that is = written for validating configuration? Will it be enforced on operational = datastore?


For the router-id, I think that my = preferred solution would be to:
Define the "configurable-router-id" = feature, have a single router-id leaf, then put in the description that = it is only configurable if the "configurable-router-id" feature is = enabled.

Possibly, in = future, we could extend the YANG language to allow if-feature to be = conditionally applied to only config true or config false = elements.

An alternative = solution, that works today, is to just have 2 separate, but co-located, = leaves:
1) cfg-router-id, config true, conditional on = if-feature.
2) router-id, config false, = operational.
- In the future, we could define a YANG = extension to bind the config and state leaves together in the model = (e.g. a related-config statement).  But I think that we should see = how often this issue turns up in practice before we jump to doing = this.

Thanks,
Rob

Lada

Jason

From: Kent = Watsen [mailto:kwatsen@juniper.net]
Sent: Monday, = July 24, 2017 20:53
To: Acee Lindem (acee) <acee@cisco.com>; = Sterne, Jason (Nokia - CA/Ottawa) <jason.sterne@nokia.com>; netmod@ietf.org
Subject: Re: [netmod] nmda-guidelines-01: value space for = config vs state


Related, = revised-datastores-03#section-4.7 says:

   As a result of remnant configuration, the = semantic constraints
   defined in the data = model cannot be relied upon for <operational>,
   since the system may have remnant = configuration whose constraints
   were = valid with the previous configuration and that are not valid
   with the current configuration.  Since = constraints on "config false"
   nodes may = refer to "config true" nodes, remnant configuration may
   force the violation of those constraints. =  The constraints that may
   not hold = include "when", "must", "min-elements", and "max-elements".
   Note that syntactic constraints cannot be = violated, including
   hierarchical = organization, identifiers, and type-based constraints.

The last sentence implies that the value-space must be the = same between
nodes in <operational> and the = conventional datastores.

Kent // = contributor


On 7/24/17, 4:35 = PM, "netmod on behalf of Acee Lindem (acee)" <netmod-bounces@ietf.org<mailto:netmod-bounces@ietf.org> on behalf of acee@cisco.com<mailto:acee@cisco.com>> wrote:

Hi Jason,

From: "Sterne, Jason = (Nokia - CA/Ottawa)" <jason.sterne@nokia.com<mailto:jason.sterne@nokia.com>>
Date: = Monday, July 24, 2017 at 4:32 PM
To: Acee Lindem <acee@cisco.com<mailto:acee@cisco.com>>, "netmod@ietf.org<mailto:netmod@ietf.org>"= <netmod@ietf.org<mailto:netmod@ietf.org>>
Subject: RE: = [netmod] nmda-guidelines-01: value space for config vs state

Hi Acee,

OK =E2=80=93= maybe this example isn=E2=80=99t the best.  But in the general = case my concern about using a super-set would be that it implies all = those values are valid input values for an edit-config in the = candidate/running.  I can=E2=80=99t immediately see a clean way to = indicate that some of the values aren=E2=80=99t valid for writing.

Another possible approach we could use is that = if the value space is different, then it means we should have separate = leafs.   The model designer could have 1 typedef for the = common values (i.e. for applied/intended config), and then use a union = with additional values for the state/operational leaf that supports the = extra values.

Right =E2=80=93 if there = additional values that the leaf can take, then it is probably pure = operational state as opposed to applied config.

Thanks,
Acee


Jason

From: Acee Lindem (acee) = [mailto:acee@cisco.com]
Sent: Monday, July = 24, 2017 16:22
To: Sterne, Jason (Nokia - CA/Ottawa) = <jason.sterne@nokia.com<mailto:jason.sterne@nokia.com>>; netmod@ietf.org<mailto:netmod@ietf.org>
Subject: Re: = [netmod] nmda-guidelines-01: value space for config vs state

Hi Jason,

From: = netmod <netmod-bounces@ietf.org<mailto:netmod-bounces@ietf.org>> on behalf of = "Sterne, Jason (Nokia - CA/Ottawa)" <jason.sterne@nokia.com<mailto:jason.sterne@nokia.com>>
Date: = Monday, July 17, 2017 at 6:22 AM
To: "netmod@ietf.org<mailto:netmod@ietf.org>"= <netmod@ietf.org<mailto:netmod@ietf.org>>
Subject: = [netmod] nmda-guidelines-01: value space for config vs state

Hi all,

A note in = Rob Wilton=E2=80=99s presentation today in rtgwg mentioned something = about consistency in the value space for config vs state leafs. =  The NMDA approach results in the same leaf for both config & = state in many cases (at least for the cases where the separate config = & state leafs were only there to represent intended vs applied = config).

But aren=E2=80=99t there some = cases where the value space for state will be different than the value = space for config ? I=E2=80=99m thinking of the basic admin/oper state = for interfaces for example where config may allow enable/disable but = state may have additional values like =E2=80=98testing=E2=80=99. =  If the config & state value spaces aren=E2=80=99t 100% the = same, are module designers recommended to create a separate state leaf = ?

In this particular example, the leaf you = are describing would be read-only system state as opposed to applied = state. If there were such a leaf that could take on a wider range of = values of applied state values than the intended state, I=E2=80=99d = expect the value space would need to be the superset.

Thanks,
Acee


Rgds,
Jason
_______________________________________________
netmod mailing list
netmod@ietf.org
https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/netmod

_______________________________________________
netmod mailing = list
netmod@ietf.org
https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/netmod

Mahesh Jethanandani
mjethanandani@gmail.com



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Ip=[66.129.239.12]; Helo=[p-emfe01a-sac.jnpr.net] X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-FromEntityHeader: HybridOnPrem X-MS-Exchange-Transport-CrossTenantHeadersStamped: BN6PR05MB3313 Archived-At: Subject: Re: [netmod] nmda-guidelines-01: value space for config vs state X-BeenThere: netmod@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 Precedence: list List-Id: NETMOD WG list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 28 Jul 2017 18:13:36 -0000 Mahesh Jethanandani writes: >What happens if I have a 'must' statement that is written for >validating configuration? Will it be enforced on operational datastore? The last paragraph of 4.7 of the NMDA draft talks about constraints in operational: As a result of remnant configuration, the semantic constraints defined in the data model cannot be relied upon for , since the system may have remnant configuration whose constraints were valid with the previous configuration and that are not valid with the current configuration. Since constraints on "config false" nodes may refer to "config true" nodes, remnant configuration may force the violation of those constraints. The constraints that may not hold include "when", "must", "min-elements", and "max-elements". Note that syntactic constraints cannot be violated, including hierarchical organization, identifiers, and type-based constraints. So constraints like value space (since the are type-based) cannot be violated. IMHO there are few cases where the value spaces differ and those must be modeled with dual leafs. This is unfortunate, but is better than forcing dual leafs on all situations. As mentioned in the future we can make a YANG extension statement to tie the two leafs together. Thanks, Phil From nobody Fri Jul 28 11:24:14 2017 Return-Path: X-Original-To: netmod@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: netmod@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8E49E1318A2 for ; Fri, 28 Jul 2017 11:24:03 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.7 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.7 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW=-0.7, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=gmail.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 2d9TQFuaMFJr for ; Fri, 28 Jul 2017 11:24:02 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail-oi0-x242.google.com (mail-oi0-x242.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:4003:c06::242]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 8BEB413206D for ; Fri, 28 Jul 2017 11:24:01 -0700 (PDT) Received: by mail-oi0-x242.google.com with SMTP id v11so19426826oif.1 for ; Fri, 28 Jul 2017 11:24:01 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20161025; h=mime-version:subject:from:in-reply-to:date:cc :content-transfer-encoding:message-id:references:to; bh=m58wqoTkIxRhtshQR5lPJTF0ueZbIB0DQkICmJ3jVz8=; b=hIzBMdI6iMW37cqPG+xnheCzPM2pIenQOIwwbNhRgAEHn1I07ykvASEtPIq6l9F4ya YkU2+EkhyDE7ChgKbrgylWKo0eC1Mpo4i3vWYvQrv79apIA0dgzFeaY0xVm7OU4jUeqS UIduoKhhBdzCLsBHQZmhD3J9DFmVkF9m2nFCQKHxsHZ66jZSMND2Xc/1M5oQbfj0Sh3i BQ76Tf9zLQ15wOAtPcCzW/jASVVxWpdsYwp+rI6cfRI/O03HY0SiEd9UWvfDTc5gUQn3 v0Q7Yp+w3GXwmcV1sNjRlhY66nluKmupFpTSEgALi0HJqnYKiwltFqM62Z8SbZ5isIaH nz6A== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:subject:from:in-reply-to:date:cc :content-transfer-encoding:message-id:references:to; bh=m58wqoTkIxRhtshQR5lPJTF0ueZbIB0DQkICmJ3jVz8=; b=TO7/YE6/xL0E4HyvXCosByYEmaysI+/hFnalp7CuLGbHFLWarFrf33ji7OZZI2maJF tOx/xxPLu8ZRx0swrbrK0EqmHoT3ltQfNHgW8nLoZLNNrxlY18/k6SZNpK9XuDpuqoQG BikEgL1MwH5rq/cJ3fRfiTTWMCGWWZW+82W28MRzXLAWO8LNknlUuC3KAjvqAsmROElL 95GdyWY26TUdBJCqK162Ql+pwBbP3RoT7n77HfWoGBd8wnBbkosHSDtwCW3IdQyGZJyx TI2R6yew8JE0o8R39PrqxjVFpMp1G5GEWweEZCCduNq6hMKpQfctN3voETC4UOzTlu1o 9p5w== X-Gm-Message-State: AIVw113ivkO2Egjyshb2gZbNnjYsT3Bx3mQsPMoskG3MUtvvcsH5XIWl 6SNTH2ewPbNPsA== X-Received: by 10.202.181.130 with SMTP id e124mr7018431oif.96.1501266240974; Fri, 28 Jul 2017 11:24:00 -0700 (PDT) Received: from printer-xx-69a0ea.cisco.com (printer-xx-69a0ea.cisco.com. [128.107.151.25]) by smtp.gmail.com with ESMTPSA id k128sm13299650oih.50.2017.07.28.11.23.59 (version=TLS1 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-AES128-SHA bits=128/128); Fri, 28 Jul 2017 11:24:00 -0700 (PDT) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 9.3 \(3124\)) From: Mahesh Jethanandani In-Reply-To: <201707281813.v6SIDS0o032443@idle.juniper.net> Date: Fri, 28 Jul 2017 11:24:13 -0700 Cc: Robert Wilton , "netmod@ietf.org" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Message-Id: References: <201707281813.v6SIDS0o032443@idle.juniper.net> To: Phil Shafer X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.3124) Archived-At: Subject: Re: [netmod] nmda-guidelines-01: value space for config vs state X-BeenThere: netmod@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 Precedence: list List-Id: NETMOD WG list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 28 Jul 2017 18:24:03 -0000 > On Jul 28, 2017, at 11:13 AM, Phil Shafer wrote: >=20 > Mahesh Jethanandani writes: >> What happens if I have a 'must' statement that is written for >> validating configuration? Will it be enforced on operational = datastore? >=20 > The last paragraph of 4.7 of the NMDA draft talks about constraints > in operational: >=20 > As a result of remnant configuration, the semantic constraints > defined in the data model cannot be relied upon for , > since the system may have remnant configuration whose constraints > were valid with the previous configuration and that are not valid > with the current configuration. Since constraints on "config false" > nodes may refer to "config true" nodes, remnant configuration may > force the violation of those constraints. The constraints that may > not hold include "when", "must", "min-elements", and = "max-elements=E2=80=9D. Should this be a =E2=80=98may not=E2=80=99 or a =E2=80=98MUST NOT=E2=80=99= ? How does one decide whether constraints will apply or not? > Note that syntactic constraints cannot be violated, including > hierarchical organization, identifiers, and type-based constraints. >=20 > So constraints like value space (since the are type-based) cannot > be violated. >=20 > IMHO there are few cases where the value spaces differ and those > must be modeled with dual leafs. This is unfortunate, but is better > than forcing dual leafs on all situations. As mentioned in the > future we can make a YANG extension statement to tie the two leafs > together. >=20 > Thanks, > Phil Mahesh Jethanandani mjethanandani@gmail.com From nobody Fri Jul 28 11:29:10 2017 Return-Path: X-Original-To: netmod@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: netmod@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id BCD6B131C89 for ; Fri, 28 Jul 2017 11:29:09 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.901 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.901 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, RP_MATCHES_RCVD=-0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 2Y_XcSfuPDcs for ; Fri, 28 Jul 2017 11:29:07 -0700 (PDT) Received: from atlas5.jacobs-university.de (atlas5.jacobs-university.de [212.201.44.20]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher AECDH-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 575F5129B43 for ; Fri, 28 Jul 2017 11:29:07 -0700 (PDT) Received: from localhost (demetrius5.irc-it.jacobs-university.de [10.70.0.222]) by atlas5.jacobs-university.de (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2750866F; Fri, 28 Jul 2017 20:29:06 +0200 (CEST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at jacobs-university.de Received: from atlas5.jacobs-university.de ([10.70.0.217]) by localhost (demetrius5.jacobs-university.de [10.70.0.222]) (amavisd-new, port 10032) with ESMTP id YVGsVugI6Mab; Fri, 28 Jul 2017 20:29:00 +0200 (CEST) Received: from hermes.jacobs-university.de (hermes.jacobs-university.de [212.201.44.23]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (Client CN "hermes.jacobs-university.de", Issuer "Jacobs University CA - G01" (verified OK)) by atlas5.jacobs-university.de (Postfix) with ESMTPS; Fri, 28 Jul 2017 20:29:05 +0200 (CEST) Received: from localhost (demetrius3.jacobs-university.de [212.201.44.48]) by hermes.jacobs-university.de (Postfix) with ESMTP id CFBF0200B8; Fri, 28 Jul 2017 20:29:05 +0200 (CEST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at jacobs-university.de Received: from hermes.jacobs-university.de ([212.201.44.23]) by localhost (demetrius3.jacobs-university.de [212.201.44.32]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id yH5utOvygAn5; Fri, 28 Jul 2017 20:29:05 +0200 (CEST) Received: from elstar.local (elstar.jacobs.jacobs-university.de [10.50.231.133]) by hermes.jacobs-university.de (Postfix) with ESMTP id 702D7200AA; Fri, 28 Jul 2017 20:29:05 +0200 (CEST) Received: by elstar.local (Postfix, from userid 501) id 588274001888; Fri, 28 Jul 2017 20:29:05 +0200 (CEST) Date: Fri, 28 Jul 2017 20:29:05 +0200 From: Juergen Schoenwaelder To: Mahesh Jethanandani Cc: Phil Shafer , "netmod@ietf.org" Message-ID: <20170728182905.GA30098@elstar.local> Reply-To: Juergen Schoenwaelder Mail-Followup-To: Mahesh Jethanandani , Phil Shafer , "netmod@ietf.org" References: <201707281813.v6SIDS0o032443@idle.juniper.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Disposition: inline X-Clacks-Overhead: GNU Terry Pratchett Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit In-Reply-To: User-Agent: Mutt/1.6.0 (2016-04-01) Archived-At: Subject: Re: [netmod] nmda-guidelines-01: value space for config vs state X-BeenThere: netmod@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 Precedence: list List-Id: NETMOD WG list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 28 Jul 2017 18:29:10 -0000 On Fri, Jul 28, 2017 at 11:24:13AM -0700, Mahesh Jethanandani wrote: > > > On Jul 28, 2017, at 11:13 AM, Phil Shafer wrote: > > > > Mahesh Jethanandani writes: > >> What happens if I have a 'must' statement that is written for > >> validating configuration? Will it be enforced on operational datastore? > > > > The last paragraph of 4.7 of the NMDA draft talks about constraints > > in operational: > > > > As a result of remnant configuration, the semantic constraints > > defined in the data model cannot be relied upon for , > > since the system may have remnant configuration whose constraints > > were valid with the previous configuration and that are not valid > > with the current configuration. Since constraints on "config false" > > nodes may refer to "config true" nodes, remnant configuration may > > force the violation of those constraints. The constraints that may > > not hold include "when", "must", "min-elements", and "max-elements”. > > Should this be a ‘may not’ or a ‘MUST NOT’? How does one decide whether constraints will apply or not? > Mahesh, you report the actual operational state - if the actual operational state violates constraints, you still report it. What else would you do? /js -- Juergen Schoenwaelder Jacobs University Bremen gGmbH Phone: +49 421 200 3587 Campus Ring 1 | 28759 Bremen | Germany Fax: +49 421 200 3103 From nobody Fri Jul 28 11:34:37 2017 Return-Path: X-Original-To: netmod@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: netmod@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 51B84131D69 for ; Fri, 28 Jul 2017 11:34:31 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.699 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.699 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW=-0.7, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=gmail.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id bTAHeCMrhqHq for ; Fri, 28 Jul 2017 11:34:26 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail-oi0-x22d.google.com (mail-oi0-x22d.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:4003:c06::22d]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 56CD413207A for ; Fri, 28 Jul 2017 11:34:26 -0700 (PDT) Received: by mail-oi0-x22d.google.com with SMTP id a9so140269357oih.0 for ; Fri, 28 Jul 2017 11:34:26 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20161025; h=mime-version:subject:from:in-reply-to:date:cc:message-id:references :to; bh=649WEzdgc9Bqevh3ePvM/g/oZhoGGrZlJQ3aM6kOYBA=; b=j1a2tuqtb4ZFsmakzbyLBAZG+w6ZKw+Xx57qieD+tC0kXoYLCvlcqw49Fcw5mFNJ/V vC2Vpk4F4b76GbufGVbuoK9L2AS4nb1A7ehCloanl50X0bAojRjtVrVKuWzB6aYfpDln JbbNKA/Bwym9hH2ylh/z/At72JlkSDL1awOqus6Lp2GsHYDdcklKGsbUdp+Vvb3cJZQT 5gt9IythzT/LoU1jl6bvMrnA200PQSNGw5nylpNTSjFBWMyNYIKLb4/M8t6bEuguW8WQ NFw2nLgMyHppHFSxkghAmd0oW6h1kz+lXX7WHA87c0uVxmdC/DFUlb/732RfIn4y4bpD ku1Q== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:subject:from:in-reply-to:date:cc :message-id:references:to; bh=649WEzdgc9Bqevh3ePvM/g/oZhoGGrZlJQ3aM6kOYBA=; b=keYBRu0te3HQg/Ctx5Vys1rhk614JGMiuMy8hCXwpYS7AMuMACizux8zv0Ve0q5HRG lpQjEROxJ5n0EZtg0MI9XjJbsBgrytWloSvWObZ4YfL6uS+frm9RUjeHhTfTIHfHrdyT qdhszAMVeiAsBqzmbwF1QMt2eYwg9pC/TZlT4ZUo99wuBRqi/HgsgLrGLkOutZ3U/b+M 9iOi+Kt9p9tW1HbLjiDqyY9yjBs6EktzoNyTyfQfGLr9AEDnH1nnj+arVy5/Z/wmeIo0 d4cF20lC8/6L6nLZHewtv4NK5+JDHMocUbmhh8uPIJRiqj9zUj2ZAd3/Qa6FRw2GH/Xz 7ofQ== X-Gm-Message-State: AIVw110CVLBKG/PV9lY3k8YMTRp82l8fkzn+GEOdjLNR3DH8fmQyOTnI /86sgglH//iXBw== X-Received: by 10.202.169.194 with SMTP id s185mr8616632oie.87.1501266865745; Fri, 28 Jul 2017 11:34:25 -0700 (PDT) Received: from printer-xx-69a0ea.cisco.com (printer-xx-69a0ea.cisco.com. [128.107.151.25]) by smtp.gmail.com with ESMTPSA id n204sm18779720oia.12.2017.07.28.11.34.24 (version=TLS1 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-AES128-SHA bits=128/128); Fri, 28 Jul 2017 11:34:25 -0700 (PDT) Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="Apple-Mail=_00932371-65A6-4A8A-889F-9BAF748588E5" Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 9.3 \(3124\)) From: Mahesh Jethanandani In-Reply-To: <20170728182905.GA30098@elstar.local> Date: Fri, 28 Jul 2017 11:34:38 -0700 Cc: Phil Shafer , "netmod@ietf.org" Message-Id: <92C287BF-7472-4340-8CFE-5FC53B84917D@gmail.com> References: <201707281813.v6SIDS0o032443@idle.juniper.net> <20170728182905.GA30098@elstar.local> To: Juergen Schoenwaelder X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.3124) Archived-At: Subject: Re: [netmod] nmda-guidelines-01: value space for config vs state X-BeenThere: netmod@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 Precedence: list List-Id: NETMOD WG list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 28 Jul 2017 18:34:35 -0000 --Apple-Mail=_00932371-65A6-4A8A-889F-9BAF748588E5 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 > On Jul 28, 2017, at 11:29 AM, Juergen Schoenwaelder = wrote: >=20 > On Fri, Jul 28, 2017 at 11:24:13AM -0700, Mahesh Jethanandani wrote: >>=20 >>> On Jul 28, 2017, at 11:13 AM, Phil Shafer wrote: >>>=20 >>> Mahesh Jethanandani writes: >>>> What happens if I have a 'must' statement that is written for >>>> validating configuration? Will it be enforced on operational = datastore? >>>=20 >>> The last paragraph of 4.7 of the NMDA draft talks about constraints >>> in operational: >>>=20 >>> As a result of remnant configuration, the semantic constraints >>> defined in the data model cannot be relied upon for , >>> since the system may have remnant configuration whose constraints >>> were valid with the previous configuration and that are not valid >>> with the current configuration. Since constraints on "config = false" >>> nodes may refer to "config true" nodes, remnant configuration may >>> force the violation of those constraints. The constraints that may >>> not hold include "when", "must", "min-elements", and = "max-elements=E2=80=9D. >>=20 >> Should this be a =E2=80=98may not=E2=80=99 or a =E2=80=98MUST NOT=E2=80= =99? How does one decide whether constraints will apply or not? >>=20 >=20 > Mahesh, >=20 > you report the actual operational state - if the actual operational > state violates constraints, you still report it. What else would you > do? Then what you are suggesting is a MUST NOT. That constraints like = =E2=80=9Cwhen=E2=80=9D, =E2=80=9Cmust=E2=80=9D, =E2=80=9Cmin-elements=E2=80= =9D, and =E2=80=9Cmax-elements=E2=80=9D MUST NOT be enforced in case of = operational state. >=20 > /js >=20 > --=20 > Juergen Schoenwaelder Jacobs University Bremen gGmbH > Phone: +49 421 200 3587 Campus Ring 1 | 28759 Bremen | Germany > Fax: +49 421 200 3103 > Mahesh Jethanandani mjethanandani@gmail.com --Apple-Mail=_00932371-65A6-4A8A-889F-9BAF748588E5 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/html; charset=utf-8
On Jul 28, 2017, at 11:29 AM, Juergen Schoenwaelder <j.schoenwaelder@jacobs-university.de> wrote:

On Fri, Jul 28, 2017 at 11:24:13AM -0700, Mahesh = Jethanandani wrote:

On Jul = 28, 2017, at 11:13 AM, Phil Shafer <phil@juniper.net> wrote:

Mahesh Jethanandani writes:
What happens if I have a 'must' statement that = is written for
validating configuration? Will it be = enforced on operational datastore?

The last paragraph of 4.7 of the NMDA draft talks about = constraints
in operational:

 As a result of remnant configuration, the semantic = constraints
 defined in the data model cannot be = relied upon for <operational>,
 since the = system may have remnant configuration whose constraints
 were valid with the previous configuration and that are = not valid
 with the current configuration. =  Since constraints on "config false"
 nodes may = refer to "config true" nodes, remnant configuration may
 force the violation of those constraints.  The = constraints that may
 not hold include "when", = "must", "min-elements", and "max-elements=E2=80=9D.

Should this be a =E2=80=98may = not=E2=80=99 or a =E2=80=98MUST NOT=E2=80=99? How does one decide = whether constraints will apply or not?


Mahesh,

you report the actual operational state - if the = actual operational
state violates constraints, you still report it. = What else would you
do?

Then what = you are suggesting is a MUST NOT. That constraints like =E2=80=9Cwhen=E2=80= =9D, =E2=80=9Cmust=E2=80=9D, =E2=80=9Cmin-elements=E2=80=9D, and = =E2=80=9Cmax-elements=E2=80=9D MUST NOT be enforced in case of = operational state.


/js

-- 
Juergen = Schoenwaelder =           Jacobs = University Bremen gGmbH
Phone: +49 421 200 3587 =         Campus Ring 1 | 28759 = Bremen | Germany
Fax:   +49 421 200 3103 =         <http://www.jacobs-university.de/>

Mahesh Jethanandani
mjethanandani@gmail.com



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Ip=[66.129.239.12]; Helo=[p-emfe01a-sac.jnpr.net] X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-FromEntityHeader: HybridOnPrem X-MS-Exchange-Transport-CrossTenantHeadersStamped: MWHPR05MB3326 Archived-At: Subject: Re: [netmod] nmda-guidelines-01: value space for config vs state X-BeenThere: netmod@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 Precedence: list List-Id: NETMOD WG list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 28 Jul 2017 19:08:33 -0000 Mahesh Jethanandani writes: > Then what you are suggesting is a MUST NOT. That constraints like >when, must, min-elements, and max-elements MUST >NOT be enforced in case of operational state. I think it's more of a "may" issue. In the main, these constraints will remain true, but if the current operational state of the box violates them, then the box should report the current values even if/when they violate the containts. The server will certainly not enforce these constraint, so the suggestion is to the client, and telling the client they MUST NOT do something seems odd. The real point is that the data returned may violate the constraints and hopefully the current text expresses that. Thanks, Phil From nobody Fri Jul 28 14:12:05 2017 Return-Path: X-Original-To: netmod@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: netmod@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 74E64132161 for ; Fri, 28 Jul 2017 14:12:03 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.901 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.901 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, RP_MATCHES_RCVD=-0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id no4mhN-gkNLi for ; Fri, 28 Jul 2017 14:12:01 -0700 (PDT) Received: from atlas5.jacobs-university.de (atlas5.jacobs-university.de [212.201.44.20]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher AECDH-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 777DA132183 for ; Fri, 28 Jul 2017 14:12:01 -0700 (PDT) Received: from localhost (demetrius5.irc-it.jacobs-university.de [10.70.0.222]) by atlas5.jacobs-university.de (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7D99666F; Fri, 28 Jul 2017 23:11:59 +0200 (CEST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at jacobs-university.de Received: from atlas5.jacobs-university.de ([10.70.0.217]) by localhost (demetrius5.jacobs-university.de [10.70.0.222]) (amavisd-new, port 10032) with ESMTP id GTnBT_jq0dS7; Fri, 28 Jul 2017 23:11:54 +0200 (CEST) Received: from hermes.jacobs-university.de (hermes.jacobs-university.de [212.201.44.23]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (Client CN "hermes.jacobs-university.de", Issuer "Jacobs University CA - G01" (verified OK)) by atlas5.jacobs-university.de (Postfix) with ESMTPS; Fri, 28 Jul 2017 23:11:59 +0200 (CEST) Received: from localhost (demetrius4.jacobs-university.de [212.201.44.49]) by hermes.jacobs-university.de (Postfix) with ESMTP id 35958200B8; Fri, 28 Jul 2017 23:11:59 +0200 (CEST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at jacobs-university.de Received: from hermes.jacobs-university.de ([212.201.44.23]) by localhost (demetrius4.jacobs-university.de [212.201.44.32]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id eSGd8l-5VW4V; Fri, 28 Jul 2017 23:11:58 +0200 (CEST) Received: from elstar.local (elstar.jacobs.jacobs-university.de [10.50.231.133]) by hermes.jacobs-university.de (Postfix) with ESMTP id AB401200AA; Fri, 28 Jul 2017 23:11:58 +0200 (CEST) Received: by elstar.local (Postfix, from userid 501) id 905C74001A7F; Fri, 28 Jul 2017 23:11:58 +0200 (CEST) Date: Fri, 28 Jul 2017 23:11:58 +0200 From: Juergen Schoenwaelder To: Mahesh Jethanandani Cc: Phil Shafer , "netmod@ietf.org" Message-ID: <20170728211158.GA30214@elstar.local> Reply-To: Juergen Schoenwaelder Mail-Followup-To: Mahesh Jethanandani , Phil Shafer , "netmod@ietf.org" References: <201707281813.v6SIDS0o032443@idle.juniper.net> <20170728182905.GA30098@elstar.local> <92C287BF-7472-4340-8CFE-5FC53B84917D@gmail.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Disposition: inline X-Clacks-Overhead: GNU Terry Pratchett Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit In-Reply-To: <92C287BF-7472-4340-8CFE-5FC53B84917D@gmail.com> User-Agent: Mutt/1.6.0 (2016-04-01) Archived-At: Subject: Re: [netmod] nmda-guidelines-01: value space for config vs state X-BeenThere: netmod@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 Precedence: list List-Id: NETMOD WG list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 28 Jul 2017 21:12:03 -0000 On Fri, Jul 28, 2017 at 11:34:38AM -0700, Mahesh Jethanandani wrote: > > >>> > >>> As a result of remnant configuration, the semantic constraints > >>> defined in the data model cannot be relied upon for , > >>> since the system may have remnant configuration whose constraints > >>> were valid with the previous configuration and that are not valid > >>> with the current configuration. Since constraints on "config false" > >>> nodes may refer to "config true" nodes, remnant configuration may > >>> force the violation of those constraints. The constraints that may > >>> not hold include "when", "must", "min-elements", and "max-elements”. > >> > >> Should this be a ‘may not’ or a ‘MUST NOT’? How does one decide whether constraints will apply or not? > >> > > > > Mahesh, > > > > you report the actual operational state - if the actual operational > > state violates constraints, you still report it. What else would you > > do? > > Then what you are suggesting is a MUST NOT. That constraints like “when”, “must”, “min-elements”, and “max-elements” MUST NOT be enforced in case of operational state. > For , the constraints are likely more a client-side utility (if at all); a client can check whether constraints are violated and if so this can be seen as an _indication_ that the server may be in a 'bad state'. Note that this can be a transient 'bad state' and also note that we do not have atomic snapshots of state and hence what the client sees may also be violating constraints due to changes of while retrieving state. Hence, a violation of constraints noticed on the client side remains just an _indication_ of a possible 'bad state'. I think writing "MUST NOT enforced" is not helpful since what would that enforcement be? Not reporting state that does not exist? This will make everybody troubleshooting networks cry. It is essential to see the truth and not a beautified view of the uglyness if you troubleshoot a network. Or do you have a different idea what 'enforced' would mean? If we do not define 'enforced', then saying 'MUST NOT enforced' is somewhat pointless. (This is very different from configuration datastores where we can reject edits if they violate contraints; we can't reject operational state.) /js -- Juergen Schoenwaelder Jacobs University Bremen gGmbH Phone: +49 421 200 3587 Campus Ring 1 | 28759 Bremen | Germany Fax: +49 421 200 3103 From nobody Fri Jul 28 18:35:15 2017 Return-Path: X-Original-To: netmod@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: netmod@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id EAE7D131EB5 for ; Fri, 28 Jul 2017 18:35:11 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.999 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.999 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=gmail.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id TwH6D-0E2OpK for ; Fri, 28 Jul 2017 18:35:10 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail-oi0-x241.google.com (mail-oi0-x241.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:4003:c06::241]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 27C2D131EB0 for ; Fri, 28 Jul 2017 18:35:10 -0700 (PDT) Received: by mail-oi0-x241.google.com with SMTP id e124so18635634oig.0 for ; Fri, 28 Jul 2017 18:35:10 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20161025; h=mime-version:subject:from:in-reply-to:date:cc :content-transfer-encoding:message-id:references:to; bh=EZwVuMXP1fYGdcyYnbXS/9u0Vv6vwyFeB18JGeirZns=; b=Zr4oZm4S8G3UBmV+M5vd1BaRKHYcVvRsYQ6FM7pH8KwVF+9wAAI16ndKU+MSgPwmwc o6URIfw9xJBdAxYDYRd8cWv3DtU1TZQG+7FxAeiunTjgZ0CgYlD0+dszkbc8NxKvxhRH 3OwP1hwDHCFU7lXbaJNuAshviE93LQFsY9i44tQdewM3tZruM4UzuP9CQHxgO8Nj187i QORusP9COQa/SCxDAuxqkqsa1ajvOJCNyPmNrH2rbIV9n9CkOuFh5BQDBMr5aa6QQNmm pcazhQJbrPM5E8ut58ANFG9mvdM6NNMJSBNHfR6lh7xuYRKs8Dn6Cj2DBNz8NEklugNT Bwfw== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:subject:from:in-reply-to:date:cc :content-transfer-encoding:message-id:references:to; bh=EZwVuMXP1fYGdcyYnbXS/9u0Vv6vwyFeB18JGeirZns=; b=Pft4UcHOXYN6NJAZNrEvkMovDsEC3SLzHe0tjnzGA92YF+O7JYhiYozRibCzToWkdR KU1rgQyrMFjL3NBPPnjVU9A5PirdT0bfkgsrCxPPkRqnjjhAxxSSao/LewrSLP9pMcA8 PLoeJ1qNVlhrl2FPgjBvd6xS3b5tI14V2+WaX32TeqtVz+NieFDDZV38BHe1X76LbxFG 1/vNUdVr91GkxB+vR4PQ3SaqBz5XhV9S7aRoqUff9HDDHGoXwiUAPvO5AyfAcj+cckb7 gTusIjJ5pH0EuOAzhbDJMrUWD81GkhaHHk9ASJQwQgdpj9589IXmlSRGB/4YKoGwiZg+ 1mKA== X-Gm-Message-State: AIVw113vDX4eR5YfxkeD4pgqOWY16H5QKKtmwIHzfuYEbBh3NM7T56Zp Oxf5zhJqwT9Auw== X-Received: by 10.202.76.214 with SMTP id z205mr9740950oia.215.1501292109373; Fri, 28 Jul 2017 18:35:09 -0700 (PDT) Received: from ?IPv6:2001:420:30d:1320:1142:f772:6d85:788d? ([2001:420:30d:1320:1142:f772:6d85:788d]) by smtp.gmail.com with ESMTPSA id x23sm23047986oix.51.2017.07.28.18.35.08 (version=TLS1 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-AES128-SHA bits=128/128); Fri, 28 Jul 2017 18:35:08 -0700 (PDT) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 9.3 \(3124\)) From: Mahesh Jethanandani In-Reply-To: <20170728211158.GA30214@elstar.local> Date: Fri, 28 Jul 2017 18:35:21 -0700 Cc: Phil Shafer , "netmod@ietf.org" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Message-Id: <793EEAED-EF45-4746-95EF-6D71BDB46236@gmail.com> References: <201707281813.v6SIDS0o032443@idle.juniper.net> <20170728182905.GA30098@elstar.local> <92C287BF-7472-4340-8CFE-5FC53B84917D@gmail.com> <20170728211158.GA30214@elstar.local> To: Juergen Schoenwaelder X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.3124) Archived-At: Subject: Re: [netmod] nmda-guidelines-01: value space for config vs state X-BeenThere: netmod@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 Precedence: list List-Id: NETMOD WG list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sat, 29 Jul 2017 01:35:12 -0000 > On Jul 28, 2017, at 2:11 PM, Juergen Schoenwaelder = wrote: >=20 > On Fri, Jul 28, 2017 at 11:34:38AM -0700, Mahesh Jethanandani wrote: >>=20 >>>>>=20 >>>>> As a result of remnant configuration, the semantic constraints >>>>> defined in the data model cannot be relied upon for , >>>>> since the system may have remnant configuration whose constraints >>>>> were valid with the previous configuration and that are not valid >>>>> with the current configuration. Since constraints on "config = false" >>>>> nodes may refer to "config true" nodes, remnant configuration may >>>>> force the violation of those constraints. The constraints that = may >>>>> not hold include "when", "must", "min-elements", and = "max-elements=E2=80=9D. >>>>=20 >>>> Should this be a =E2=80=98may not=E2=80=99 or a =E2=80=98MUST = NOT=E2=80=99? How does one decide whether constraints will apply or not? >>>>=20 >>>=20 >>> Mahesh, >>>=20 >>> you report the actual operational state - if the actual operational >>> state violates constraints, you still report it. What else would you >>> do? >>=20 >> Then what you are suggesting is a MUST NOT. That constraints like = =E2=80=9Cwhen=E2=80=9D, =E2=80=9Cmust=E2=80=9D, =E2=80=9Cmin-elements=E2=80= =9D, and =E2=80=9Cmax-elements=E2=80=9D MUST NOT be enforced in case of = operational state. >>=20 >=20 > For , the constraints are likely more a client-side > utility (if at all); a client can check whether constraints are > violated and if so this can be seen as an _indication_ that the server > may be in a 'bad state'. Note that this can be a transient 'bad state' > and also note that we do not have atomic snapshots of state and hence > what the client sees may also be violating constraints due to changes > of while retrieving state. Hence, a violation of > constraints noticed on the client side remains just an _indication_ of > a possible 'bad state'. >=20 > I think writing "MUST NOT enforced" is not helpful since what would > that enforcement be? Not reporting state that does not exist? This > will make everybody troubleshooting networks cry. It is essential to > see the truth and not a beautified view of the uglyness if you > troubleshoot a network. Or do you have a different idea what > 'enforced' would mean? If we do not define 'enforced', then saying > 'MUST NOT enforced' is somewhat pointless. (This is very different > from configuration datastores where we can reject edits if they > violate contraints; we can't reject operational state.) Juergen, I am putting on an server implementors hat and wondering how to parse = the statement - The constraints that may not hold include "when", = "must", "min-elements", and "max-elements=E2=80=9D. As you suggest, the server cannot ignore operational state or not report = it. In essence the server is not =E2=80=9Cenforcing" the must statement = even if it exists. It ignores it and all the other constraints when it = reports the operational state. The client may, as you suggest = =E2=80=9Cenforce" the constraints if it chooses to. Although, there also = what does it mean for the client to not report something from the = that the server has reported? It is after all a state, as = you rightly point out. Constraints therefore have no meaning in datastore and = SHOULD be ignored. How about saying something to that effect? Saying = =E2=80=9Cmay not=E2=80=9D is at best ambiguous and at worst confusing.=20= Thanks. >=20 > /js >=20 > --=20 > Juergen Schoenwaelder Jacobs University Bremen gGmbH > Phone: +49 421 200 3587 Campus Ring 1 | 28759 Bremen | Germany > Fax: +49 421 200 3103 Mahesh Jethanandani mjethanandani@gmail.com From nobody Sat Jul 29 01:04:20 2017 Return-Path: X-Original-To: netmod@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: netmod@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7AB89124BE8 for ; Sat, 29 Jul 2017 01:04:19 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.9 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.9 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, RP_MATCHES_RCVD=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id MIrghYS-0Q32 for ; Sat, 29 Jul 2017 01:04:17 -0700 (PDT) Received: from atlas5.jacobs-university.de (atlas5.jacobs-university.de [212.201.44.20]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher AECDH-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 4BB6C120227 for ; Sat, 29 Jul 2017 01:04:17 -0700 (PDT) Received: from localhost (demetrius5.irc-it.jacobs-university.de [10.70.0.222]) by atlas5.jacobs-university.de (Postfix) with ESMTP id 17D1F668; Sat, 29 Jul 2017 10:04:16 +0200 (CEST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at jacobs-university.de Received: from atlas5.jacobs-university.de ([10.70.0.217]) by localhost (demetrius5.jacobs-university.de [10.70.0.222]) (amavisd-new, port 10032) with ESMTP id uSj_HoTgqPGv; Sat, 29 Jul 2017 10:04:10 +0200 (CEST) Received: from hermes.jacobs-university.de (hermes.jacobs-university.de [212.201.44.23]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (Client CN "hermes.jacobs-university.de", Issuer "Jacobs University CA - G01" (verified OK)) by atlas5.jacobs-university.de (Postfix) with ESMTPS; Sat, 29 Jul 2017 10:04:15 +0200 (CEST) Received: from localhost (demetrius3.jacobs-university.de [212.201.44.48]) by hermes.jacobs-university.de (Postfix) with ESMTP id C26E2200B8; Sat, 29 Jul 2017 10:04:15 +0200 (CEST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at jacobs-university.de Received: from hermes.jacobs-university.de ([212.201.44.23]) by localhost (demetrius3.jacobs-university.de [212.201.44.32]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id tWntBRg7wWcp; Sat, 29 Jul 2017 10:04:15 +0200 (CEST) Received: from elstar.local (elstar.jacobs.jacobs-university.de [10.50.231.133]) by hermes.jacobs-university.de (Postfix) with ESMTP id 65D02200AA; Sat, 29 Jul 2017 10:04:15 +0200 (CEST) Received: by elstar.local (Postfix, from userid 501) id 3616840020CC; Sat, 29 Jul 2017 10:04:15 +0200 (CEST) Date: Sat, 29 Jul 2017 10:04:15 +0200 From: Juergen Schoenwaelder To: Mahesh Jethanandani Cc: Phil Shafer , "netmod@ietf.org" Message-ID: <20170729080414.GA30591@elstar.local> Reply-To: Juergen Schoenwaelder Mail-Followup-To: Mahesh Jethanandani , Phil Shafer , "netmod@ietf.org" References: <201707281813.v6SIDS0o032443@idle.juniper.net> <20170728182905.GA30098@elstar.local> <92C287BF-7472-4340-8CFE-5FC53B84917D@gmail.com> <20170728211158.GA30214@elstar.local> <793EEAED-EF45-4746-95EF-6D71BDB46236@gmail.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Disposition: inline X-Clacks-Overhead: GNU Terry Pratchett Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit In-Reply-To: <793EEAED-EF45-4746-95EF-6D71BDB46236@gmail.com> User-Agent: Mutt/1.6.0 (2016-04-01) Archived-At: Subject: Re: [netmod] nmda-guidelines-01: value space for config vs state X-BeenThere: netmod@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 Precedence: list List-Id: NETMOD WG list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sat, 29 Jul 2017 08:04:19 -0000 On Fri, Jul 28, 2017 at 06:35:21PM -0700, Mahesh Jethanandani wrote: > > The client may, as you suggest “enforce" the constraints if it chooses to. Although, there also what does it mean for the client to not report something from the that the server has reported? It is after all a state, as you rightly point out. > A client can 'check' constraints, I think 'enforce' is the wrong term. I assume that the client has a perspective on the task it wants to achieve and hence it should be able to decide whether constraints matter to the task the client wants to achieve or not. > Constraints therefore have no meaning in datastore and > SHOULD be ignored. How about saying something to that effect? Saying > “may not” is at best ambiguous and at worst confusing. I do not know whether RFC 2119 keywords are needed here (after >10 years of trying to get this right I generally declare failure to get this right) but if RFC 2119 keywords apply than SHOULD and MAY are the same. Since you negate the statement, it is at the end the same as what we have. ;-) /js -- Juergen Schoenwaelder Jacobs University Bremen gGmbH Phone: +49 421 200 3587 Campus Ring 1 | 28759 Bremen | Germany Fax: +49 421 200 3103 From nobody Sat Jul 29 01:07:53 2017 Return-Path: X-Original-To: netmod@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: netmod@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 18F59124BE8 for ; Sat, 29 Jul 2017 01:07:52 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.9 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.9 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, RP_MATCHES_RCVD=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 4DWY4_8i9bow for ; Sat, 29 Jul 2017 01:07:50 -0700 (PDT) Received: from atlas5.jacobs-university.de (atlas5.jacobs-university.de [212.201.44.20]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher AECDH-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 554CC120227 for ; Sat, 29 Jul 2017 01:07:50 -0700 (PDT) Received: from localhost (demetrius5.irc-it.jacobs-university.de [10.70.0.222]) by atlas5.jacobs-university.de (Postfix) with ESMTP id 028C1668; Sat, 29 Jul 2017 10:07:49 +0200 (CEST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at jacobs-university.de Received: from atlas5.jacobs-university.de ([10.70.0.217]) by localhost (demetrius5.jacobs-university.de [10.70.0.222]) (amavisd-new, port 10032) with ESMTP id eljPUqtA0Kbe; Sat, 29 Jul 2017 10:07:43 +0200 (CEST) Received: from hermes.jacobs-university.de (hermes.jacobs-university.de [212.201.44.23]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (Client CN "hermes.jacobs-university.de", Issuer "Jacobs University CA - G01" (verified OK)) by atlas5.jacobs-university.de (Postfix) with ESMTPS; Sat, 29 Jul 2017 10:07:48 +0200 (CEST) Received: from localhost (demetrius4.jacobs-university.de [212.201.44.49]) by hermes.jacobs-university.de (Postfix) with ESMTP id AC31B200B8; Sat, 29 Jul 2017 10:07:48 +0200 (CEST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at jacobs-university.de Received: from hermes.jacobs-university.de ([212.201.44.23]) by localhost (demetrius4.jacobs-university.de [212.201.44.32]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id CINf2FgXEI6K; Sat, 29 Jul 2017 10:07:48 +0200 (CEST) Received: from elstar.local (elstar.jacobs.jacobs-university.de [10.50.231.133]) by hermes.jacobs-university.de (Postfix) with ESMTP id 09F4D200AA; Sat, 29 Jul 2017 10:07:48 +0200 (CEST) Received: by elstar.local (Postfix, from userid 501) id E90A14002151; Sat, 29 Jul 2017 10:07:47 +0200 (CEST) Date: Sat, 29 Jul 2017 10:07:47 +0200 From: Juergen Schoenwaelder To: Mahesh Jethanandani , Phil Shafer , "netmod@ietf.org" Message-ID: <20170729080747.GA30640@elstar.local> Reply-To: Juergen Schoenwaelder Mail-Followup-To: Mahesh Jethanandani , Phil Shafer , "netmod@ietf.org" References: <201707281813.v6SIDS0o032443@idle.juniper.net> <20170728182905.GA30098@elstar.local> <92C287BF-7472-4340-8CFE-5FC53B84917D@gmail.com> <20170728211158.GA30214@elstar.local> <793EEAED-EF45-4746-95EF-6D71BDB46236@gmail.com> <20170729080414.GA30591@elstar.local> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Disposition: inline X-Clacks-Overhead: GNU Terry Pratchett Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit In-Reply-To: <20170729080414.GA30591@elstar.local> User-Agent: Mutt/1.6.0 (2016-04-01) Archived-At: Subject: Re: [netmod] nmda-guidelines-01: value space for config vs state X-BeenThere: netmod@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 Precedence: list List-Id: NETMOD WG list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sat, 29 Jul 2017 08:07:52 -0000 On Sat, Jul 29, 2017 at 10:04:15AM +0200, Juergen Schoenwaelder wrote: > On Fri, Jul 28, 2017 at 06:35:21PM -0700, Mahesh Jethanandani wrote: > > > > The client may, as you suggest “enforce" the constraints if it chooses to. Although, there also what does it mean for the client to not report something from the that the server has reported? It is after all a state, as you rightly point out. > > > > A client can 'check' constraints, I think 'enforce' is the wrong > term. I assume that the client has a perspective on the task it wants > to achieve and hence it should be able to decide whether constraints > matter to the task the client wants to achieve or not. > > > Constraints therefore have no meaning in datastore and > > SHOULD be ignored. How about saying something to that effect? Saying > > “may not” is at best ambiguous and at worst confusing. > > I do not know whether RFC 2119 keywords are needed here (after >10 > years of trying to get this right I generally declare failure to get > this right) but if RFC 2119 keywords apply than SHOULD and MAY are the > same. Since you negate the statement, it is at the end the same as > what we have. ;-) > Oops, I have to correct myself. MAY is a synonym to OPTIONAL and SHOULD is a synonym for RECOMMENDED. Obviously, I find the current text sufficient. Well, regarding the question whether RFC 2119 language is needed here, I can't tell. /js -- Juergen Schoenwaelder Jacobs University Bremen gGmbH Phone: +49 421 200 3587 Campus Ring 1 | 28759 Bremen | Germany Fax: +49 421 200 3103 From nobody Mon Jul 31 08:55:50 2017 Return-Path: X-Original-To: netmod@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: netmod@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 40E991325FB for ; Mon, 31 Jul 2017 08:55:49 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.899 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.899 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id L9iFqQoRBwRw for ; Mon, 31 Jul 2017 08:55:47 -0700 (PDT) Received: from trail.lhotka.name (trail.lhotka.name [77.48.224.143]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9D1DD1325F9 for ; Mon, 31 Jul 2017 08:55:46 -0700 (PDT) Received: by trail.lhotka.name (Postfix, from userid 109) id 791751820E71; Mon, 31 Jul 2017 17:57:10 +0200 (CEST) Received: from localhost (unknown [195.113.220.110]) by trail.lhotka.name (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 65AB41820E6F; Mon, 31 Jul 2017 17:57:09 +0200 (CEST) From: Ladislav Lhotka To: Kent Watsen , Robert Wilton Cc: "Sterne\, Jason \(Nokia - CA\/Ottawa\)" , "Acee Lindem \(acee\)" , "netmod\@ietf.org" In-Reply-To: References: <683087D8-C766-4917-A43B-43B319A43466@juniper.net> <42ce9796-d592-5a29-a516-3f64d60aba45@cisco.com> <31EBCB51-2606-494B-803C-32B20A30F33F@nic.cz> Date: Mon, 31 Jul 2017 17:55:44 +0200 Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Archived-At: Subject: Re: [netmod] nmda-guidelines-01: value space for config vs state X-BeenThere: netmod@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 Precedence: list List-Id: NETMOD WG list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 31 Jul 2017 15:55:49 -0000 Kent Watsen writes: > Hi Lada, > > I agree that there is a close alignment but then I guess NETMOD should have started with a different approach, perhaps object-oriented rather than document-oriented, where configuration could play the role of "methods" intended for changing the object's state. (If Randy Presuhn was reading this, he would probably refer to certain ancient technologies at this point.:-) > > I just added https://github.com/netmod-wg/yang-next/issues/25. Note, > this would definitely be in a YANG 2.0 (if done at all), as oppose to in a > YANG 1.2. I suspect it would have very little in common with YANG as we know it, but I am not suggesting to start such work - my point is that the config/state schema unification tries to fit a round peg in a square hole. > > > > It is quite remarkable that formalisms closely related to YANG (W3C XML Schema, RELAX NG/Schematron/DSDL, XPath) were all initially relatively simple and elegant (albeit limited) and became popular, but subsequent consortia-driven "improvements" made them so complex that nobody understands the new versions any more, and only the old versions remain in use. I am concerned that YANG is now bound to the same path. > > This is an important point. Perhaps you're saying that it's better for > us to obsolete/cannibalize ourselves than passively waiting for it to > happen. Not really, what I am saying is that it may be wiser to accept limitations of YANG architecture instead of stretching it too far. I agree that foo and -foo state duplicity is suboptimal but I think it is not THAT bad. In terms of NMDA, I can imagine that schema for configuration datastores and be specified separately. > FWIW, in terms of complexity, I think that schema-mount in particular has > pushed the YANG-complexity envelope more so than any other recent > activity. I fully agree and I have said it myself several times. My concern applies to schema mount as well. Lada > > > > -- Ladislav Lhotka Head, CZ.NIC Labs PGP Key ID: 0xB8F92B08A9F76C67 From nobody Mon Jul 31 11:33:52 2017 Return-Path: X-Original-To: netmod@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: netmod@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 68B8513277C; Mon, 31 Jul 2017 11:33:51 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -4.202 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-4.202 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-2.3, RP_MATCHES_RCVD=-0.001, SPF_HELO_PASS=-0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id QRvclln4tF8e; Mon, 31 Jul 2017 11:33:49 -0700 (PDT) Received: from rfc-editor.org (rfc-editor.org [4.31.198.49]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher AECDH-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 4BA2E132769; Mon, 31 Jul 2017 11:33:49 -0700 (PDT) Received: by rfc-editor.org (Postfix, from userid 30) id AFB3CB8107F; Mon, 31 Jul 2017 11:33:46 -0700 (PDT) To: ietf-announce@ietf.org, rfc-dist@rfc-editor.org X-PHP-Originating-Script: 1005:ams_util_lib.php From: rfc-editor@rfc-editor.org Cc: rfc-editor@rfc-editor.org, drafts-update-ref@iana.org, netmod@ietf.org Message-Id: <20170731183346.AFB3CB8107F@rfc-editor.org> Date: Mon, 31 Jul 2017 11:33:46 -0700 (PDT) Archived-At: Subject: [netmod] RFC 8199 on YANG Module Classification X-BeenThere: netmod@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 Precedence: list List-Id: NETMOD WG list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 31 Jul 2017 18:33:51 -0000 A new Request for Comments is now available in online RFC libraries. RFC 8199 Title: YANG Module Classification Author: D. Bogdanovic, B. Claise, C. Moberg Status: Informational Stream: IETF Date: July 2017 Mailbox: dean@voltanet.io, bclaise@cisco.com, camoberg@cisco.com Pages: 11 Characters: 23080 Updates/Obsoletes/SeeAlso: None I-D Tag: draft-ietf-netmod-yang-model-classification-08.txt URL: https://www.rfc-editor.org/info/rfc8199 DOI: 10.17487/RFC8199 The YANG data modeling language is currently being considered for a wide variety of applications throughout the networking industry at large. Many standards development organizations (SDOs), open-source software projects, vendors, and users are using YANG to develop and publish YANG modules for a wide variety of applications. At the same time, there is currently no well-known terminology to categorize various types of YANG modules. A consistent terminology would help with the categorization of YANG modules, assist in the analysis of the YANG data modeling efforts in the IETF and other organizations, and bring clarity to the YANG- related discussions between the different groups. This document describes a set of concepts and associated terms to support consistent classification of YANG modules. This document is a product of the NETCONF Data Modeling Language Working Group of the IETF. INFORMATIONAL: This memo provides information for the Internet community. It does not specify an Internet standard of any kind. Distribution of this memo is unlimited. This announcement is sent to the IETF-Announce and rfc-dist lists. To subscribe or unsubscribe, see https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ietf-announce https://mailman.rfc-editor.org/mailman/listinfo/rfc-dist For searching the RFC series, see https://www.rfc-editor.org/search For downloading RFCs, see https://www.rfc-editor.org/retrieve/bulk Requests for special distribution should be addressed to either the author of the RFC in question, or to rfc-editor@rfc-editor.org. Unless specifically noted otherwise on the RFC itself, all RFCs are for unlimited distribution. The RFC Editor Team Association Management Solutions, LLC


On Tue, Jul 25, 2017 at 1:07 PM, Juergen Schoenwaelder <j.schoenwaelder@jacobs-university.de> wrote:
On Tue, Jul 25, 2017 at 01:01:29PM -0700, Andy Bierm= an wrote:
>
> The YANG identityref allows any identity that is derived from the
> same base.=C2=A0 You keep talking about "the" operational da= tastore when
> in fact your YANG definitions require no such thing.=C2=A0 They merely=
> require any identify with the proper base (i.e, edit-config,
> get-data operations)

There are standard identities. You implement the standard if you
implement the standard identities. There is a standard identity for
"the" operational datastore. Yes, you can implement non-standard<= br> datastores. This was also true before.

Perhaps we need to say more explicitly somewhere implementing NMDA
requires to implement at least the <running> and <operational><= br> datastore (the ones with the standard identity). Is that what you
are looking for?

Yes -- =C2=A0what does= conformance to NMDA mean (if anything)?
How does a client know t= he server claims NMDA conformance?
=C2=A0

/js



Andy
=C2=A0
--
Juergen Schoenwaelder=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0Jacobs Univer= sity Bremen gGmbH
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Ip=[66.129.239.12]; Helo=[p-emfe01a-sac.jnpr.net] X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-FromEntityHeader: HybridOnPrem X-MS-Exchange-Transport-CrossTenantHeadersStamped: BN6PR05MB3316 Archived-At: Subject: Re: [netmod] nmda-guidelines-01: value space for config vs state X-BeenThere: netmod@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 Precedence: list List-Id: NETMOD WG list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 25 Jul 2017 21:24:40 -0000 "Sterne, Jason (Nokia - CA/Ottawa)" writes: > OK - so the same leaf (in the schema) has the same value space in the > conventional datastores and in the operational datastore. That probably > makes sense since a single schema describes the model for that leaf > whether it is accessed in conventional DSes or the operational DS. > > But I think that also means that *if* you need slightly different value > spaces for an item, then you'll need to split it into multiple leafs in > the schema. Absolutely. Do we need to call this/these scenarios out directly in the NMDA draft? Or is this more of an FAQ item? Thanks, Phil From nobody Tue Jul 25 14:43:24 2017 Return-Path: X-Original-To: netmod@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: netmod@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id E48F6129AF9 for ; Tue, 25 Jul 2017 14:43:22 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.022 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.022 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_H3=-0.01, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_WL=-0.01, SPF_HELO_PASS=-0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (1024-bit key) header.d=juniper.net Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id rDHXxKZkX5go for ; Tue, 25 Jul 2017 14:43:21 -0700 (PDT) Received: from NAM01-SN1-obe.outbound.protection.outlook.com (mail-sn1nam01on0124.outbound.protection.outlook.com [104.47.32.124]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id CE1591252BA for ; 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Ip=[66.129.239.12]; Helo=[p-emfe01a-sac.jnpr.net] X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-FromEntityHeader: HybridOnPrem X-MS-Exchange-Transport-CrossTenantHeadersStamped: CY4PR05MB3319 Archived-At: Subject: Re: [netmod] datastore conformance X-BeenThere: netmod@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 Precedence: list List-Id: NETMOD WG list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 25 Jul 2017 21:45:13 -0000 Andy Bierman writes: >The YANG definitions defined for NETCONF and RESTCONF operations do not a= ctually >require the "real" datastore identities to be used by a server. The identities are defined in the YANG modules contained in the NMDA draft (draft-ietf-netmod-revised-datastores). The protocol-specific drafts (draft-dsdt-nmda-netconf and draft-dsdt-nmda-restconf) describe protocols operations that use these identities, such as the parameter to . The YANG library draft (draft-ietf-netconf-yang-library) allows the server to indicate which datastores are supported. >The server implementor >has the freedom to replace all of the standard datastores with proprietar= y definitions. Yes. The implementation can also choose not to support any conventional datastores, allowing only, say, some new dynamic datastore. Clients can learn this via YANG Library. In the end, I've confidence that the market place will give limited success to servers that make funky and weird choices. We all understand that most-common behaviors are most desirable, but forcing a limit on such things is imho counter productive. >While this provides unlimited flexibility for the server, it also provide= s unlimited >complexity for the client. "unlimited"? >I think the existing :candidate, :writable-running, and :startup capabili= ties cover >the standard conventional datastores. Yes, these capabilities allow a client to know that a server supports a datastore, but not what it can contain. It's not sufficient information. The client needs the YANG library information to have meaningful interaction with a server. >IMO the MUST be a new capability for the :operational datastore and the >exact identityref and semantics for this datastore MUST be supported >if the :operational:1.0 capability is advertised. What does a new capability give that YANG library does not? I don't follow the bit about "the exact identityref and semantics for this datastore". Is your concern that I could make a follow-on to that derives from the operational identity? >Both NETCONF and RESTCONF can list capabilities so both protocols can adv= ertise >this capability URI. Same for YANG Library, right? Thanks, Phil From nobody Tue Jul 25 15:43:33 2017 Return-Path: X-Original-To: netmod@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: netmod@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id F0B52131FCA for ; Tue, 25 Jul 2017 15:43:31 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.899 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.899 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=yumaworks-com.20150623.gappssmtp.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id oME5Cebrq0nX for ; Tue, 25 Jul 2017 15:43:30 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail-wr0-x22c.google.com (mail-wr0-x22c.google.com [IPv6:2a00:1450:400c:c0c::22c]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id C1470131FC9 for ; Tue, 25 Jul 2017 15:43:29 -0700 (PDT) Received: by mail-wr0-x22c.google.com with SMTP id y43so124631794wrd.3 for ; Tue, 25 Jul 2017 15:43:29 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=yumaworks-com.20150623.gappssmtp.com; s=20150623; h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:from:date:message-id:subject:to :cc; bh=8R0Wi5v7eMC+Gx6n5EHtPifmJkhzswXE0b5hslmfy1E=; b=yblSAvrukSo3RzrCmYe5QynPtKPax8eB6ebh7RKTqdpeJBUnuOeGD2H8xhhz+EC+rG qwMpvQfgAjnz2zCCn1mNVSgvb12hxW8/kDZTgLlVp4L/fjQhx0HSAVrbAUwnSnwMut5q 0kCMKpgT9XD7liswQphKJ8sbhPUm2xiKG3dKWPYWEo4Gw5VR7SfxOuQIE0k8olhFdN6u EnLVTYstr93cuHDo2nigMGvQoB4+jO5IjhcBWv/QMhcfhw/NK0ia6NNDUK1DjgfNWIU5 EO+gBzKBluzosrIQU6gcLnl4164lCtiv+lMohw1nLztH1a6INAwxFUj3rW+JWeTzyjgR ml4w== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:in-reply-to:references:from:date :message-id:subject:to:cc; bh=8R0Wi5v7eMC+Gx6n5EHtPifmJkhzswXE0b5hslmfy1E=; b=apIuXkH/VPkrU/UxZT73/j9/gDuvgwon7c2v9ZdPDFLT1nJHeeQoBNHwJqY7OVpSba +qy1v9Fd/inGyehTbn774Ph8n0zxWMS0dY55CdqPxfkHFiPSudRYAMXYyrptPxZa3WbT f5ahFl5N/vWEch8jxFv9VHCBhPnYV87H5uafPrTws7cpEBkVtvYZcvDk9Fno4f1btIZC UayPnhXMprW2ULVwq9H9LHO//VSps6rrSwsuyFFVK09gm6jqTLJ0NKe2ObFJexL3zsY1 wtgZJNVINdzhuLyyl9rGSV+1d3Eu8zle9WRXqn+VY1Um2MsqQlW+yAEdhWkY/ki7rn2p iIvQ== X-Gm-Message-State: AIVw111020t3rJEmYZcLnC+tWPKVJWPKVEKbibx+tpEArNGVkxhm7Fjr NJp+PNkZpqSzdmRZpklvh7yduOGQ3921 X-Received: by 10.223.136.176 with SMTP id f45mr19119695wrf.289.1501022608181; Tue, 25 Jul 2017 15:43:28 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.223.152.196 with HTTP; Tue, 25 Jul 2017 15:43:27 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: <201707252145.v6PLix8f004810@idle.juniper.net> References: <201707252145.v6PLix8f004810@idle.juniper.net> From: Andy Bierman Date: Tue, 25 Jul 2017 15:43:27 -0700 Message-ID: To: Phil Shafer Cc: "netmod@ietf.org" Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="001a11492e6c5c6db405552c0fbf" Archived-At: Subject: Re: [netmod] datastore conformance X-BeenThere: netmod@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 Precedence: list List-Id: NETMOD WG list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 25 Jul 2017 22:43:32 -0000 --001a11492e6c5c6db405552c0fbf Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Hi, I am aware how YANG identities work. Let the market decide. Good enough. Andy On Tue, Jul 25, 2017 at 2:44 PM, Phil Shafer wrote: > Andy Bierman writes: > >The YANG definitions defined for NETCONF and RESTCONF operations do not > actually > >require the "real" datastore identities to be used by a server. > > The identities are defined in the YANG modules contained in the > NMDA draft (draft-ietf-netmod-revised-datastores). The protocol-specific > drafts (draft-dsdt-nmda-netconf and draft-dsdt-nmda-restconf) > describe protocols operations that use these identities, such as > the parameter to . The YANG library draft > (draft-ietf-netconf-yang-library) allows the server to indicate > which datastores are supported. > > >The server implementor > >has the freedom to replace all of the standard datastores with > proprietary definitions. > > Yes. The implementation can also choose not to support any > conventional datastores, allowing only, say, some new dynamic > datastore. Clients can learn this via YANG Library. > > In the end, I've confidence that the market place will give limited > success to servers that make funky and weird choices. We all > understand that most-common behaviors are most desirable, but forcing > a limit on such things is imho counter productive. > > >While this provides unlimited flexibility for the server, it also > provides unlimited > >complexity for the client. > > "unlimited"? > > >I think the existing :candidate, :writable-running, and :startup > capabilities cover > >the standard conventional datastores. > > Yes, these capabilities allow a client to know that a server supports > a datastore, but not what it can contain. It's not sufficient > information. The client needs the YANG library information to > have meaningful interaction with a server. > > >IMO the MUST be a new capability for the :operational datastore and the > >exact identityref and semantics for this datastore MUST be supported > >if the :operational:1.0 capability is advertised. > > What does a new capability give that YANG library does not? > > I don't follow the bit about "the exact identityref and semantics > for this datastore". Is your concern that I could make a follow-on > to that derives from the operational identity? > > >Both NETCONF and RESTCONF can list capabilities so both protocols can > advertise > >this capability URI. > > Same for YANG Library, right? > > Thanks, > Phil > --001a11492e6c5c6db405552c0fbf Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Hi,

I am aware how YANG identities work= .
Let the market decide.=C2=A0 Good enough.

<= div>
Andy

Hi,

I am still concerned that the datas= tore conformance requirements are
under-specified and too server-= centric.

The YANG definitions defined for NETCONF = and RESTCONF operations do not ac tually
require the "real&q= uot; datastore identities to be used by a server. The server implementor
has the freedom to replace all of the standard datastores with = proprietary definitions.
While this provides unlimited flexibilit= y for the server, it also provides unlimited
complexity for the c= lient.

I think the existing :candidate, :writable-= running, and :startup capabilities cover
the standard conventiona= l datastores.

IMO the MUST be a new capability for= the :operational datastore and the
exact identityref and semanti= cs for this datastore MUST be supported
if the :operational:1.0 c= apability is advertised.

Both NETCONF and RESTCONF= can list capabilities so both protocols can advertise
this capab= ility URI.


Andy

--94eb2c1cb818c161310555143850-- From nobody Mon Jul 24 13:22:11 2017 Return-Path: X-Original-To: netmod@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: netmod@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4245D131F0D for ; Mon, 24 Jul 2017 13:22:10 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -14.522 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-14.522 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_HI=-5, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_H3=-0.01, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_WL=-0.01, RP_MATCHES_RCVD=-0.001, SPF_HELO_PASS=-0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, USER_IN_DEF_DKIM_WL=-7.5] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (1024-bit key) header.d=cisco.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id oRwRR-PdgIJl for ; Mon, 24 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(version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Mon, 24 Jul 2017 20:35:34 GMT Received: from xch-rtp-015.cisco.com (64.101.220.155) by XCH-RTP-011.cisco.com (64.101.220.151) with Microsoft SMTP Server (TLS) id 15.0.1210.3; Mon, 24 Jul 2017 16:35:34 -0400 Received: from xch-rtp-015.cisco.com ([64.101.220.155]) by XCH-RTP-015.cisco.com ([64.101.220.155]) with mapi id 15.00.1210.000; Mon, 24 Jul 2017 16:35:34 -0400 From: "Acee Lindem (acee)" To: "Sterne, Jason (Nokia - CA/Ottawa)" , "netmod@ietf.org" Thread-Topic: [netmod] nmda-guidelines-01: value space for config vs state Thread-Index: AQHTBLqEdT0NGtvmm0+HII/SPyYntqJjbStggAACH4A= Date: Mon, 24 Jul 2017 20:35:33 +0000 Message-ID: References: In-Reply-To: Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-ms-exchange-messagesentrepresentingtype: 1 x-ms-exchange-transport-fromentityheader: Hosted x-originating-ip: [10.116.152.196] Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="_000_D59BD1D1B9FFBaceeciscocom_" MIME-Version: 1.0 Archived-At: Subject: Re: [netmod] nmda-guidelines-01: value space for config vs state X-BeenThere: netmod@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 Precedence: list List-Id: NETMOD WG list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 24 Jul 2017 20:35:39 -0000 --_000_D59BD1D1B9FFBaceeciscocom_ Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 SGkgSmFzb24sDQoNCkZyb206ICJTdGVybmUsIEphc29uIChOb2tpYSAtIENBL090dGF3YSkiIDxq YXNvbi5zdGVybmVAbm9raWEuY29tPG1haWx0bzpqYXNvbi5zdGVybmVAbm9raWEuY29tPj4NCkRh dGU6IE1vbmRheSwgSnVseSAyNCwgMjAxNyBhdCA0OjMyIFBNDQpUbzogQWNlZSBMaW5kZW0gPGFj ZWVAY2lzY28uY29tPG1haWx0bzphY2VlQGNpc2NvLmNvbT4+LCAibmV0bW9kQGlldGYub3JnPG1h aWx0bzpuZXRtb2RAaWV0Zi5vcmc+IiA8bmV0bW9kQGlldGYub3JnPG1haWx0bzpuZXRtb2RAaWV0 Zi5vcmc+Pg0KU3ViamVjdDogUkU6IFtuZXRtb2RdIG5tZGEtZ3VpZGVsaW5lcy0wMTogdmFsdWUg 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AQHTBLqEdT0NGtvmm0+HII/SPyYntqJjbStggAACH4CAAATrgA== Date: Tue, 25 Jul 2017 00:53:00 +0000 Message-ID: <683087D8-C766-4917-A43B-43B319A43466@juniper.net> References: In-Reply-To: Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: user-agent: Microsoft-MacOutlook/f.20.0.170309 authentication-results: spf=none (sender IP is ) smtp.mailfrom=kwatsen@juniper.net; x-originating-ip: [66.129.241.14] x-ms-publictraffictype: Email x-microsoft-exchange-diagnostics: 1; BN3PR0501MB1411; 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h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:in-reply-to:references:from:date :message-id:subject:to:cc; bh=zGrcGjaG4+HfQFwALS4BZ3vd27PDR71lMZK8m4dMEeI=; b=ZiNio0fScwelkgA88Dod1p/etPxHo+YhZIH/lJY80Os49te5YfcItccbVJla2a1sBe ifnNH3n023wcMdL4n68vKRUoalF6QcZbHzjbyLlP7jV5mwL/AaU3WWZfy38QJ/fJkifA 9aUZGAw8ijIn2pho8t1ckHc4+72cx/C7783x8zfQ50F8fwwQIFSqxm78kvF0u0WeqjRk VB243xLgAsqwZzzeuHp7O6swh2ljelwzteSxO/IQlAoi3/jsYI2FWKWJF5n2ZofyTJC7 yS7EQQ7wZfyxaoKnHU2s9bMEqWZrBbs3JCDpS50jy0KJuHipp41QWBuuVQsgOj94+yh1 rOOQ== X-Gm-Message-State: AIVw113gb+pIUkzqVyqX+yPEyBjqCHdv0qRZKrmz3xPqiTgUuz77Un7j g/hA7HJDIngJ7/ku67pzsFL1lB7ZnI2M X-Received: by 10.223.136.176 with SMTP id f45mr18828604wrf.289.1501012890575; Tue, 25 Jul 2017 13:01:30 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.223.152.196 with HTTP; Tue, 25 Jul 2017 13:01:29 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: <3C2EAEEB-9739-4AA5-A72C-DBC810A7BE34@juniper.net> References: <3C2EAEEB-9739-4AA5-A72C-DBC810A7BE34@juniper.net> From: Andy Bierman Date: Tue, 25 Jul 2017 13:01:29 -0700 Message-ID: To: Kent Watsen Cc: "netmod@ietf.org" Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="001a11492e6c25a070055529cc6c" Archived-At: Subject: Re: [netmod] datastore conformance X-BeenThere: netmod@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 Precedence: list List-Id: NETMOD WG list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 25 Jul 2017 20:01:35 -0000 --001a11492e6c25a070055529cc6c Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" On Tue, Jul 25, 2017 at 12:47 PM, Kent Watsen wrote: > > > > > > I am still concerned that the datastore conformance requirements are > > > under-specified and too server-centric. > > > > Okay. > > > > > > > The YANG definitions defined for NETCONF and RESTCONF operations > > > do not actually require the "real" datastore identities to be used by a > server. > > > The server implementer has the freedom to replace all of the standard > datastores > > > with proprietary definitions. While this provides unlimited flexibility > for the > > > server, it also provides unlimited complexity for the client. > > > > I don't understand this. > The YANG identityref allows any identity that is derived from the same base. You keep talking about "the" operational datastore when in fact your YANG definitions require no such thing. They merely require any identify with the proper base (i.e, edit-config, get-data operations) > > > > > > I think the existing :candidate, :writable-running, and :startup > capabilities > > > cover the standard conventional datastores. > > > > What about ? - and let's not forget the dynamic datastores... > > > > > > > IMO the MUST be a new capability for the :operational datastore and the > > > exact identityref and semantics for this datastore MUST be supported > > > if the :operational:1.0 capability is advertised. > > > > > > Both NETCONF and RESTCONF can list capabilities so both protocols > > > can advertise this capability URI. > > > > We agree that the client needs to be able to discover which datastores are > > available. Already there is a proposal to update YANG Library to provide > > this data. It seems redundant to also have capabilities, but I can see > the > > argument that it has to be done for completeness too. > > > > So is the proposal for 1) the netconf-nmda draft to define NETCONF > > capabilities for :intended and :operational, 2) the restconf-nmda draft to > > define RESTCONF capabilities for :running, :startup, :intended, and > > :operational, and 3) future dynamic datastore drafts to define a capability > > URI that can be used by both NETCONF and RESTCONF? > > > You are right that interoperability is the same either way (very weak IMO). The client can read the list of datastores. If 3rd-party clients are viable (not likely) then they will be able to print an error message "Operational datastore not supported" either way.. > > > Andy > > > > Kent // contributor > > > Andy --001a11492e6c25a070055529cc6c Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable


On Tue, Jul 25, 2017 at 12:47 PM, Kent Watsen <kwatsen@juniper.net> wrote:

=C2=A0=

=C2=A0

> I am still concerned that the datastore conform= ance requirements are

> under-specified and too server-centric.<= u>

=C2=A0

Okay.

=C2=A0

=C2=A0

> The YANG definitions defined for NETCONF and RE= STCONF operations

> do not actually require the "real" da= tastore identities to be used by a server.

> The server implementer has the freedom to repla= ce all of the standard datastores

> with proprietary definitions.=C2=A0 While this = provides unlimited flexibility for the

> server, it also provides unlimited complexity f= or the client.

=C2=A0

I don't understand this.



The YANG identityref al= lows any identity that is derived from the same base.
You keep ta= lking about "the" operational datastore when in fact your YANG de= finitions
require no such thing.=C2=A0 They merely require any id= entify with the proper base
(i.e, edit-config, get-data operation= s)

=C2=A0

=C2=A0

=C2=A0

> I think the existing :candidate, :writable-runn= ing, and :startup capabilities

> cover the standard conventional datastores.<= /u>

=C2=A0

What about <intended>? =C2=A0=C2=A0- and let&#= 39;s not forget the dynamic datastores...

=C2=A0

=C2=A0

> IMO the MUST be a new capability for the :opera= tional datastore and the

> exact identityref and semantics for this datast= ore MUST be supported

> if the :operational:1.0 capability is advertise= d.

>=C2=A0

> Both NETCONF and RESTCONF can list capabilities= so both protocols

> can advertise this capability URI.

=C2=A0

We agree that the client needs to be able to discove= r which datastores are

available.=C2=A0 Already there is a proposal to upda= te YANG Library to provide

this data.=C2=A0=C2=A0 It seems redundant to also ha= ve capabilities, but I can see the

argument that it has to be done for completeness too= .=C2=A0

=C2=A0

So is the proposal for 1) the netconf-nmda draft to = define NETCONF

capabilities for :intended and :operational, 2) the = restconf-nmda draft to

define RESTCONF capabilities for :running, :startup,= :intended, and

:operational, and 3) future dynamic datastore drafts= to define a capability

URI that can be used by both NETCONF and RESTCONF?

=C2=A0





Andy