From nobody Fri Jun 1 06:13:59 2018 Return-Path: X-Original-To: netmod@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: netmod@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id B2CC112D7F5 for ; Fri, 1 Jun 2018 06:13:57 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.9 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.9 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id ZHHAQF0Ovrjj for ; Fri, 1 Jun 2018 06:13:54 -0700 (PDT) Received: from trail.lhotka.name (trail.lhotka.name [77.48.224.143]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7FF1F12D7F2 for ; Fri, 1 Jun 2018 06:13:53 -0700 (PDT) Received: by trail.lhotka.name (Postfix, from userid 109) id 29BE6182015C; Fri, 1 Jun 2018 15:17:17 +0200 (CEST) Received: from localhost (unknown [195.113.220.121]) by trail.lhotka.name (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id C9F1C1820157; Fri, 1 Jun 2018 15:17:14 +0200 (CEST) From: Ladislav Lhotka To: Juergen Schoenwaelder , Kent Watsen Cc: "netmod\@ietf.org" In-Reply-To: <20180529170900.qboedr2rmefsmblc@anna.jacobs.jacobs-university.de> References: <20180502.092527.2305319833268262996.mbj@tail-f.com> <9fca04b0-fb29-36b3-67aa-2f2c4fb98748@cisco.com> <20180502.112506.845305331945500257.mbj@tail-f.com> <20180502093626.ugsg6nq24a6vjtdn@elstar.local> <64990DFB-CF50-401A-A4EF-B6161C8D227B@juniper.net> <20180529170900.qboedr2rmefsmblc@anna.jacobs.jacobs-university.de> Mail-Followup-To: Juergen Schoenwaelder , Kent Watsen , "netmod\@ietf.org" Date: Fri, 01 Jun 2018 15:14:14 +0200 Message-ID: <87muwe4pjt.fsf@nic.cz> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Archived-At: Subject: Re: [netmod] yang-data-ext issues X-BeenThere: netmod@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 Precedence: list List-Id: NETMOD WG list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 01 Jun 2018 13:13:58 -0000 Juergen Schoenwaelder writes: > On Tue, May 29, 2018 at 03:58:33PM +0000, Kent Watsen wrote: >> [resurrecting this thread] >> >> Currently the zerotouch draft has a normative reference to this draft. >> I will this week post an update to the zerotouch draft to resolve the >> netconf list thread "a couple zerotouch-21 issues". It would be easy >> for me to also switch back to using rc:yang-data, but I won't do so if >> this draft remains an active work-in-progress. >> >> Please see below for more. >> >> >> On Wed, 2018-05-02 at 11:36 +0200, Juergen Schoenwaelder wrote: >> >On Wed, May 02, 2018 at 11:25:06AM +0200, Martin Bjorklund wrote: >> >> >> >> The primary use case is not "generic RPC messages", but standalone >> >> instance documents, error-info structures, etc. >> > >> > The proper solution for rpcs and actions is to define error >> > information as part of the rpc/action. YANG 1.1 does not support >> > this but this is where it should be fixed. >> >> Agreed, but note that the subscribed-notifications draft (both the >> published -12 and unpublished -13) are relying on being able to do >> just this, and YANG-next is years away... > > There is a description statement. > >> > Standalone instance documents (not tied to datastores) may have their >> > use cases as well but it feels odd to create support for standalone >> > instance documents as extensions and then to create even more >> > extensions to support augmentation of these instance documents and >> > whoever knows what comes next. >> >> What feels "odd" about this? Is it not using the extension statement >> as it was intended? It is odd because RFC 7950 uses a lot of text to specify the special context and then the extension attempts to remove parts of this context (IMO incompletely). It would be much more logical to have a simple context-agnostic YANG spec and then use extensions for adding context-specific stuff. Somebody who is only interested in this "yang-data" usage of YANG still has to read all the nice CLRs in 7950 that only make sense for NETCONF. > > For me, extensions that define new data definition statements are > borderline. RFC 7950 has this nice statement: It is no borderline. The exception explicitly redefines YANG semantics in its description. > > o extension: An extension attaches non-YANG semantics to statements. > The "extension" statement defines new statements to express these > semantics. > > This does not help since we lack a definition for 'non-YANG semantics' > and yes I know that yang-data is today defined as an extension. But > for me, this is a hack and instead of creating a slightly more > generalized version of this hack, I prefer to stick to yang-data in > favor of a proper solution as part of YANG. > >> > For short-term needs, there is yang-data defined in RFC 8040. >> >> To be clear, the "short-term needs" are: >> >> a) zerotouch: to define a standalone instance document >> b) notification-messages: to define a new notification message >> c) subscribed-notifications: to define error-info structures >> >> As I recall, this draft (not RFC 8040) is needed: >> >> - for (a), because rc:yang-data doesn't support a top-level >> "choice" statement spanning "container" statements. > > So create a container. > >> - for (b), in order to augment a base yang-data "message" >> structure with additional nodes. > > So you are creating another augmentation mechanism. I am concerned > about ending up with a zoo of different mechanisms if we go down this > path, we may end up with every project or vendor creating their own > variants. > > With NMDA in place, YANG 1.1 is decribing schemas for datastores plus > operations and notifications. It is not a protocol message description > language or a standalone file format description language. If this is > needed, I prefer to create YANG X.Y - and if we manage the complexity > we have something that is ideally integrated and consistent. > >> - AFAIAA, RFC 8040 is sufficient for (c) >> >> Has anything changed? I don't think that we can un-adopt this >> draft with said dependencies, right? > > I am just voicing my opinion. It may very well be that the WG prefers > to go the route of not touching YANG 1.1 and instead patching around > its limitations with extensions. > > My concern is simply driven that some want to patch in via extensions > support for describing protocol messages and standalone documents, > others want to patch via extensions and updates a different versioning > system, and who knows what comes next. In the long run, I am afraid > this will become a mess. And yes, it is always difficult to predict > the future - we need crystal balls. Perhaps as an extension. ;-) And, luckily, vendors probably haven't yet realized the potential of extensions for creating proprietary YANG silos. This document should be very instructive for them. Lada > > /js > > -- > Juergen Schoenwaelder Jacobs University Bremen gGmbH > Phone: +49 421 200 3587 Campus Ring 1 | 28759 Bremen | Germany > Fax: +49 421 200 3103 > > _______________________________________________ > netmod mailing list > netmod@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/netmod -- Ladislav Lhotka Head, CZ.NIC Labs PGP Key ID: 0xB8F92B08A9F76C67 From nobody Tue Jun 5 02:27:11 2018 Return-Path: X-Original-To: netmod@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: netmod@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6F4C2130F29; Tue, 5 Jun 2018 02:27:09 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -4.2 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-4.2 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-2.3, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id ueEqkc5Fc6Pf; Tue, 5 Jun 2018 02:27:07 -0700 (PDT) Received: from huawei.com (lhrrgout.huawei.com [194.213.3.17]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 60431130E61; Tue, 5 Jun 2018 02:27:07 -0700 (PDT) Received: from lhreml706-cah.china.huawei.com (unknown [172.18.7.108]) by Forcepoint Email with ESMTP id 5D2D561287A78; Tue, 5 Jun 2018 10:27:03 +0100 (IST) Received: from DGGEML404-HUB.china.huawei.com (10.3.17.39) by lhreml706-cah.china.huawei.com (10.201.108.47) with Microsoft SMTP Server (TLS) id 14.3.382.0; Tue, 5 Jun 2018 10:27:04 +0100 Received: from DGGEML510-MBX.china.huawei.com ([169.254.2.6]) by DGGEML404-HUB.china.huawei.com ([fe80::b177:a243:7a69:5ab8%31]) with mapi id 14.03.0382.000; Tue, 5 Jun 2018 17:26:54 +0800 From: Rohit R Ranade To: "netconf@ietf.org" CC: "netmod@ietf.org" Thread-Topic: NETCONF NMDA on conventional datastore Thread-Index: AdP8r0aCkN0iHcBKTemb29DO8r1+4w== Date: Tue, 5 Jun 2018 09:26:53 +0000 Message-ID: <991B70D8B4112A4699D5C00DDBBF878A6BBB91DE@dggeml510-mbx.china.huawei.com> Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-originating-ip: [10.18.150.121] Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="_000_991B70D8B4112A4699D5C00DDBBF878A6BBB91DEdggeml510mbxchi_" MIME-Version: 1.0 X-CFilter-Loop: Reflected Archived-At: Subject: [netmod] NETCONF NMDA on conventional datastore X-BeenThere: netmod@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.26 Precedence: list List-Id: NETMOD WG list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 05 Jun 2018 09:27:10 -0000 --_000_991B70D8B4112A4699D5C00DDBBF878A6BBB91DEdggeml510mbxchi_ Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hi All, RFC 8342 defines the conventional data-store as below " identity conventional { base datastore; description "Abstract base identity for conventional configuration datastores."; } " So when using the data-store-ref with NETCONF as below: ds:conventional The libyang parser was successfully able to parse this as a valid data-stor= e-ref. But conceptually this is not a valid data-store as it is an "abstrac= t base identity". NETCONF Server will have to add code to send error when conventional data-s= tore comes in input. I would prefer if we can control this using data-mode= l statements then the parser can handle the error. Any thoughts ? With Regards, Rohit R Ranade --_000_991B70D8B4112A4699D5C00DDBBF878A6BBB91DEdggeml510mbxchi_ Content-Type: text/html; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

Hi All,

 

RFC 8342 defines the convention= al data-store as below

 

“

     identity conventiona= l {

       base dat= astore;

       descript= ion

       &nb= sp; "Abstract base identity for conventional configuration<= /span>

       &nb= sp;  datastores.";

     }

”

 

So when using the data-store-re= f with NETCONF <get-data> as below:

 

<rpc message-id=3D"101&= quot;

     &= nbsp;  xmlns=3D"urn:ietf:params:xml:ns:netconf:base:1.0">=

     <ge= t-data

     &= nbsp;       xmlns=3D"urn:ietf:param= s:xml:ns:yang:ietf-netconf-nmda"

     &= nbsp;       xmlns:ds=3D"urn:ietf:params:= xml:ns:yang:ietf-datastores">

     &= nbsp; <datastore>ds:conventional</datastore><= /p>

    </get-dat= a>

</rpc><= /p>

 

The libyang parser was successf= ully able to parse this as a valid data-store-ref. But conceptually this is= not a valid data-store as it is an “abstract base identity”.

NETCONF Server will have to add= code to send error when conventional data-store comes in input.  I wo= uld prefer if we can control this using data-model statements then the pars= er can handle the error. Any thoughts ?

 

 

With Regards,=

Rohit R Ranade

 

--_000_991B70D8B4112A4699D5C00DDBBF878A6BBB91DEdggeml510mbxchi_-- From nobody Tue Jun 5 02:39:51 2018 Return-Path: X-Original-To: netmod@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: netmod@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 152BC130F46; Tue, 5 Jun 2018 02:39:49 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.899 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.899 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id foW9k6J3fEjZ; Tue, 5 Jun 2018 02:39:47 -0700 (PDT) Received: from anna.localdomain (anna.eecs.jacobs-university.de [IPv6:2001:638:709:5::7]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7D24C130F2B; Tue, 5 Jun 2018 02:39:46 -0700 (PDT) Received: by anna.localdomain (Postfix, from userid 501) id DE68A21CC666; Tue, 5 Jun 2018 11:39:44 +0200 (CEST) Date: Tue, 5 Jun 2018 11:39:44 +0200 From: Juergen Schoenwaelder To: Rohit R Ranade Cc: "netconf@ietf.org" , "netmod@ietf.org" Message-ID: <20180605093944.n2jdakev7y3d6a33@anna.jacobs.jacobs-university.de> Reply-To: Juergen Schoenwaelder Mail-Followup-To: Rohit R Ranade , "netconf@ietf.org" , "netmod@ietf.org" References: <991B70D8B4112A4699D5C00DDBBF878A6BBB91DE@dggeml510-mbx.china.huawei.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <991B70D8B4112A4699D5C00DDBBF878A6BBB91DE@dggeml510-mbx.china.huawei.com> User-Agent: NeoMutt/20180512 Archived-At: Subject: Re: [netmod] NETCONF NMDA on conventional datastore X-BeenThere: netmod@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.26 Precedence: list List-Id: NETMOD WG list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 05 Jun 2018 09:39:50 -0000 On Tue, Jun 05, 2018 at 09:26:53AM +0000, Rohit R Ranade wrote: > The libyang parser was successfully able to parse this as a valid data-store-ref. But conceptually this is not a valid data-store as it is an "abstract base identity". > NETCONF Server will have to add code to send error when conventional data-store comes in input. I would prefer if we can control this using data-model statements then the parser can handle the error. Any thoughts ? A server will have to respond with an error to requests that reference something (e.g., a datastore) that does not exist on that particular server. While 'conventional' likely never exists as a datastore, you sill have to check for the datastores actually supported by your implementation so the check for 'conventional' likely falls out for free anyway. /js -- Juergen Schoenwaelder Jacobs University Bremen gGmbH Phone: +49 421 200 3587 Campus Ring 1 | 28759 Bremen | Germany Fax: +49 421 200 3103 From nobody Tue Jun 5 02:40:29 2018 Return-Path: X-Original-To: netmod@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: netmod@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id B96F4130F46; Tue, 5 Jun 2018 02:40:26 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.9 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.9 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id jG9n16-16B8h; Tue, 5 Jun 2018 02:40:23 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail.tail-f.com (mail.tail-f.com [46.21.102.45]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0E316130F2B; Tue, 5 Jun 2018 02:40:23 -0700 (PDT) Received: from localhost (h-80-27.A165.priv.bahnhof.se [212.85.80.27]) by mail.tail-f.com (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 837631AE034E; Tue, 5 Jun 2018 11:40:21 +0200 (CEST) Date: Tue, 05 Jun 2018 11:40:21 +0200 (CEST) Message-Id: <20180605.114021.2101856417045449053.mbj@tail-f.com> To: rohitrranade@huawei.com Cc: netconf@ietf.org, netmod@ietf.org From: Martin Bjorklund In-Reply-To: <991B70D8B4112A4699D5C00DDBBF878A6BBB91DE@dggeml510-mbx.china.huawei.com> References: <991B70D8B4112A4699D5C00DDBBF878A6BBB91DE@dggeml510-mbx.china.huawei.com> X-Mailer: Mew version 6.7 on Emacs 24.5 / Mule 6.0 (HANACHIRUSATO) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: Text/Plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Archived-At: Subject: Re: [netmod] NETCONF NMDA on conventional datastore X-BeenThere: netmod@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.26 Precedence: list List-Id: NETMOD WG list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 05 Jun 2018 09:40:27 -0000 Rohit R Ranade wrote: > Hi All, > > RFC 8342 defines the conventional data-store as below > > " > identity conventional { > base datastore; > description > "Abstract base identity for conventional configuration > datastores."; > } > " > > So when using the data-store-ref with NETCONF as below: > > xmlns="urn:ietf:params:xml:ns:netconf:base:1.0"> > xmlns="urn:ietf:params:xml:ns:yang:ietf-netconf-nmda" > xmlns:ds="urn:ietf:params:xml:ns:yang:ietf-datastores"> > ds:conventional > > > > The libyang parser was successfully able to parse this as a valid > data-store-ref. But conceptually this is not a valid data-store as > it is an "abstract base identity". > NETCONF Server will have to add code to send error when conventional > data-store comes in input. I would prefer if we can control this > using data-model statements then the parser can handle the > error. Any thoughts ? I agree. This would be a useful enhancement to YANG. FWIW, we have implemented such a vendor-specific extension (tailf:abstract). It is also listed on the tracker for future ideas: https://github.com/netmod-wg/yang-next/issues/33 /martin From nobody Thu Jun 7 11:43:37 2018 Return-Path: X-Original-To: netmod@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: netmod@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id BA35C130FD9 for ; Thu, 7 Jun 2018 11:43:34 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.91 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.91 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, T_DKIMWL_WL_HIGH=-0.01] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (1024-bit key) header.d=nokia.onmicrosoft.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id An1g0UbeJce3 for ; Thu, 7 Jun 2018 11:43:28 -0700 (PDT) Received: from EUR01-VE1-obe.outbound.protection.outlook.com (mail-ve1eur01on0121.outbound.protection.outlook.com [104.47.1.121]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 03048130FCB for ; Thu, 7 Jun 2018 11:43:27 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=nokia.onmicrosoft.com; s=selector1-nokia-com; h=From:Date:Subject:Message-ID:Content-Type:MIME-Version:X-MS-Exchange-SenderADCheck; bh=lSjdYPCLJFYuO3g4AaueC8bm1HmOWtQ1lzr6NNwRuiQ=; b=YB50TZjvpe3qWFvYZuDYEdaEAu929d1ypjC5r1kNBbsUlhy/iD14wbILlPRn9qakFi/43DqQ/OKZblq3RkTVnSUDzn8YpJWz2w5X51W+g7qWhvTujSFhnzlIFBqx52jlxpYCvdmsld0bdgJ7DYArTYh7r7y5L/oIWasilK0pw0o= Received: from AM0PR07MB3844.eurprd07.prod.outlook.com (52.134.82.20) by AM0PR07MB3860.eurprd07.prod.outlook.com (52.134.82.24) with Microsoft SMTP Server (version=TLS1_2, cipher=TLS_ECDHE_RSA_WITH_AES_256_GCM_SHA384) id 15.20.841.12; Thu, 7 Jun 2018 18:43:25 +0000 Received: from AM0PR07MB3844.eurprd07.prod.outlook.com ([fe80::94aa:e7c1:4d51:f39c]) by AM0PR07MB3844.eurprd07.prod.outlook.com ([fe80::94aa:e7c1:4d51:f39c%2]) with mapi id 15.20.0841.011; Thu, 7 Jun 2018 18:43:25 +0000 From: "Sterne, Jason (Nokia - CA/Ottawa)" To: "netmod@ietf.org" Thread-Topic: YANG actions - need to define OK/error or can reuse NETCONF ok/rpc-error ? 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X-BeenThere: netmod@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.26 Precedence: list List-Id: NETMOD WG list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 07 Jun 2018 18:43:36 -0000 --_000_AM0PR07MB3844C6E5A6F4085B530B63429B640AM0PR07MB3844eurp_ Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hi all, When defining an 'action' in a YANG 1.1 model, and we want the server to be= able to respond with or some error information, do we need to define = the ok/error info in the 'output' of the action, or can we define an action= without any 'output' statement and have the server respond using the typic= al or in NETCONF ? I'm not sure if it is relevant, but when I look at the definition of the co= mmit rpc in the NETCONF spec, there is no 'output' defined but clearly a re= sponse of or an rpc-error can be returned by a server. If we don't define the ok/error in the action itself then I suppose other t= ypes of interfaces (RESTCONF) may or may not have other ways to reply ok/er= ror (at least it won't be defined by the YANG model for the particular acti= on). But it does seem like a waste to go and specify ok/error information for ev= ery action out there if they only need to return ok or error information th= at could be carried in the standard rpc-error message. Rgds, Jason --_000_AM0PR07MB3844C6E5A6F4085B530B63429B640AM0PR07MB3844eurp_ Content-Type: text/html; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

Hi all,

 

When defining an 'action' in a = YANG 1.1 model, and we want the server to be able to respond with <ok>= ; or some error information, do we need to define the ok/error info in the = 'output' of the action, or can we define an action without any 'output' statement and have the server respond using th= e typical <ok> or <rpc-error> in NETCONF ?

 

I'm not sure if it is relevant,= but when I look at the definition of the commit rpc in the NETCONF spec, t= here is no 'output' defined but clearly a response of <ok> or an rpc-= error can be returned by a server.

 

If we don't define the ok/error= in the action itself then I suppose other types of interfaces (RESTCONF) m= ay or may not have other ways to reply ok/error (at least it won't be defin= ed by the YANG model for the particular action).

 

But it does seem like a waste t= o go and specify ok/error information for every action out there if they on= ly need to return ok or error information that could be carried in the stan= dard rpc-error message.

 

Rgds,

Jason

--_000_AM0PR07MB3844C6E5A6F4085B530B63429B640AM0PR07MB3844eurp_-- From nobody Thu Jun 7 14:21:11 2018 Return-Path: X-Original-To: netmod@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: netmod@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8A5DF130FA8 for ; Thu, 7 Jun 2018 14:21:07 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.9 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.9 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id d7bjFewnplBD for ; Thu, 7 Jun 2018 14:21:05 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail.tail-f.com (mail.tail-f.com [46.21.102.45]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id BE080130FA2 for ; Thu, 7 Jun 2018 14:21:04 -0700 (PDT) Received: from localhost (h-80-27.A165.priv.bahnhof.se [212.85.80.27]) by mail.tail-f.com (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 97B7C1AE0309; Thu, 7 Jun 2018 23:20:59 +0200 (CEST) Date: Thu, 07 Jun 2018 23:20:59 +0200 (CEST) Message-Id: <20180607.232059.254974416192719323.mbj@tail-f.com> To: jason.sterne@nokia.com Cc: netmod@ietf.org From: Martin Bjorklund In-Reply-To: References: X-Mailer: Mew version 6.7 on Emacs 24.5 / Mule 6.0 (HANACHIRUSATO) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: Text/Plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Archived-At: Subject: Re: [netmod] YANG actions - need to define OK/error or can reuse NETCONF ok/rpc-error ? X-BeenThere: netmod@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.26 Precedence: list List-Id: NETMOD WG list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 07 Jun 2018 21:21:08 -0000 Hi, "Sterne, Jason (Nokia - CA/Ottawa)" wrote: > Hi all, > > When defining an 'action' in a YANG 1.1 model, and we want the server > to be able to respond with or some error information, do we need > to define the ok/error info in the 'output' of the action, or can we > define an action without any 'output' statement and have the server > respond using the typical or in NETCONF ? You don't need to define "ok" - see section 7.15.2, the last paragraph of RFC 7950: If the action operation invocation succeeded and no output parameters are returned, the contains a single element defined in [RFC6241]. If output parameters are returned, they are encoded as child elements to the element defined in [RFC6241], in the same order as they are defined within the "output" statement. /martin > I'm not sure if it is relevant, but when I look at the definition of > the commit rpc in the NETCONF spec, there is no 'output' defined but > clearly a response of or an rpc-error can be returned by a > server. > > If we don't define the ok/error in the action itself then I suppose > other types of interfaces (RESTCONF) may or may not have other ways to > reply ok/error (at least it won't be defined by the YANG model for the > particular action). > > But it does seem like a waste to go and specify ok/error information > for every action out there if they only need to return ok or error > information that could be carried in the standard rpc-error message. > > Rgds, > Jason From nobody Thu Jun 7 14:24:22 2018 Return-Path: X-Original-To: netmod@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: netmod@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6438F130FA2 for ; Thu, 7 Jun 2018 14:24:19 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.91 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.91 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, T_DKIMWL_WL_HIGH=-0.01, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (1024-bit key) header.d=nokia.onmicrosoft.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id s3InaQf-XaAw for ; Thu, 7 Jun 2018 14:24:16 -0700 (PDT) Received: from EUR04-DB3-obe.outbound.protection.outlook.com (mail-eopbgr60094.outbound.protection.outlook.com [40.107.6.94]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 6A4B8130EC7 for ; Thu, 7 Jun 2018 14:24:16 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=nokia.onmicrosoft.com; s=selector1-nokia-com; h=From:Date:Subject:Message-ID:Content-Type:MIME-Version:X-MS-Exchange-SenderADCheck; bh=GLGnhxe67XMSeCBBjnL225u3FtdiqF3QZ+swUH7cg48=; b=U++L5EZhOqHSq3lYqf+eJvuRNWrLnB6TpJNLx9rphk0wti4Qk2mkyiCjtOTxeFYc7968w5tt7t3l0jNM9MHj4WRarftS/TKYWVSEToPcos6X/8Zocj5C1y0F3hrY6U55CigFvs/yAArpV/NiKVhDEtPatWWiT9+Q67qk9AkcKgA= Received: from AM0PR07MB3844.eurprd07.prod.outlook.com (52.134.82.20) by AM0PR07MB4100.eurprd07.prod.outlook.com (52.134.83.140) with Microsoft SMTP Server (version=TLS1_2, cipher=TLS_ECDHE_RSA_WITH_AES_256_GCM_SHA384) id 15.20.841.10; Thu, 7 Jun 2018 21:24:14 +0000 Received: from AM0PR07MB3844.eurprd07.prod.outlook.com ([fe80::94aa:e7c1:4d51:f39c]) by AM0PR07MB3844.eurprd07.prod.outlook.com ([fe80::94aa:e7c1:4d51:f39c%2]) with mapi id 15.20.0841.011; Thu, 7 Jun 2018 21:24:14 +0000 From: "Sterne, Jason (Nokia - CA/Ottawa)" To: Martin Bjorklund CC: "netmod@ietf.org" Thread-Topic: [netmod] YANG actions - need to define OK/error or can reuse NETCONF ok/rpc-error ? Thread-Index: AdP+jqpxctFzmzk7TxOmtbfCp6waIAAFsNqAAAAKtBA= Date: Thu, 7 Jun 2018 21:24:14 +0000 Message-ID: References: <20180607.232059.254974416192719323.mbj@tail-f.com> In-Reply-To: <20180607.232059.254974416192719323.mbj@tail-f.com> Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: authentication-results: spf=none (sender IP is ) smtp.mailfrom=jason.sterne@nokia.com; x-originating-ip: [135.245.20.30] x-ms-publictraffictype: Email x-microsoft-exchange-diagnostics: 1; AM0PR07MB4100; 7:J5u7gBiwDfZOaKggjsgvFHmTK8SjNruvUdCX2mTlXpc7gU1wopHWY0vzG9373OdFzvAeM12xBDYjGhFfoIDNUSz9of7Y4wIIIy2+PyXyeFfJY4z+Lxaglno6YXEezssAxljcmysB6Gy/JH1L15mF7hguLYXIpRjo6qDLl1HzL3TxkaB6xU08lAPmsSsuWzoVikn6388iO/koLHZrq/OHNbExxv95Se6u74AHMKUYAVG4SWz1onWXdorqJuIoxbir x-ms-exchange-antispam-srfa-diagnostics: SOS; x-ms-office365-filtering-ht: Tenant x-microsoft-antispam: UriScan:(109105607167333); BCL:0; PCL:0; RULEID:(7020095)(4652020)(8989080)(48565401081)(5600026)(4534165)(4627221)(201703031133081)(201702281549075)(8990040)(2017052603328)(7193020); SRVR:AM0PR07MB4100; x-ms-traffictypediagnostic: AM0PR07MB4100: x-microsoft-antispam-prvs: x-exchange-antispam-report-test: UriScan:(158342451672863)(131327999870524)(82608151540597)(109105607167333); x-ms-exchange-senderadcheck: 1 x-exchange-antispam-report-cfa-test: BCL:0; PCL:0; RULEID:(6040522)(2401047)(5005006)(8121501046)(3002001)(3231254)(11241501184)(806099)(944501410)(52105095)(93006095)(93001095)(10201501046)(6055026)(149027)(150027)(6041310)(20161123564045)(20161123558120)(20161123560045)(20161123562045)(201703131423095)(201702281528075)(20161123555045)(201703061421075)(201703061406153)(6072148)(201708071742011)(7699016); SRVR:AM0PR07MB4100; BCL:0; PCL:0; RULEID:; SRVR:AM0PR07MB4100; x-forefront-prvs: 06968FD8C4 x-forefront-antispam-report: SFV:NSPM; SFS:(10019020)(366004)(346002)(396003)(376002)(39380400002)(39860400002)(13464003)(53754006)(189003)(57704003)(199004)(3280700002)(2900100001)(446003)(53546011)(26005)(102836004)(106356001)(66066001)(186003)(14454004)(59450400001)(55016002)(6506007)(7736002)(105586002)(99286004)(68736007)(486006)(97736004)(81156014)(2906002)(6436002)(53936002)(305945005)(229853002)(5250100002)(7696005)(76176011)(5660300001)(3660700001)(316002)(4326008)(476003)(11346002)(6116002)(6916009)(81166006)(74316002)(9686003)(33656002)(25786009)(8676002)(86362001)(478600001)(3846002)(8936002)(6246003); DIR:OUT; SFP:1102; SCL:1; SRVR:AM0PR07MB4100; H:AM0PR07MB3844.eurprd07.prod.outlook.com; FPR:; SPF:None; LANG:en; PTR:InfoNoRecords; MX:1; A:1; received-spf: None (protection.outlook.com: nokia.com does not designate permitted sender hosts) x-microsoft-antispam-message-info: vx56MjcxeWoFUmrvT9QM5kvIFSZvmCd43L1493kCNjXhFxCRimtOFrIi/E//N2apZLE+S26QdctN8O5pbB0OsheC5Sr15fDVb81CyxnQGinGB7g1RkhDV9iJfJOTeIugGlg33bfPcDDR7CmI+dttmIxbtzcFyoyKm7OPjY5cawteXWeJGrmRXjDg+F9TPcvDOwayE+ax8j8crydjtAmagE6IaGtiw2u50lasofWHlHOAacNcbJW/hFwE6wFbjoIP spamdiagnosticoutput: 1:99 spamdiagnosticmetadata: NSPM Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable MIME-Version: 1.0 X-MS-Office365-Filtering-Correlation-Id: 2565d3ec-7575-4f64-76f7-08d5ccbd04b8 X-OriginatorOrg: nokia.com X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-Network-Message-Id: 2565d3ec-7575-4f64-76f7-08d5ccbd04b8 X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-originalarrivaltime: 07 Jun 2018 21:24:14.1425 (UTC) X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-fromentityheader: Hosted X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-id: 5d471751-9675-428d-917b-70f44f9630b0 X-MS-Exchange-Transport-CrossTenantHeadersStamped: AM0PR07MB4100 Archived-At: Subject: Re: [netmod] YANG actions - need to define OK/error or can reuse NETCONF ok/rpc-error ? X-BeenThere: netmod@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.26 Precedence: list List-Id: NETMOD WG list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 07 Jun 2018 21:24:20 -0000 Thanks Martin. I should have found that myself when I was looking through = that section. What about the case where the operation invocation did not succeed and ther= e are no output parameters defined ? =20 Rgds, Jason > -----Original Message----- > From: Martin Bjorklund [mailto:mbj@tail-f.com] > Sent: Thursday, June 7, 2018 5:21 PM > To: Sterne, Jason (Nokia - CA/Ottawa) > Cc: netmod@ietf.org > Subject: Re: [netmod] YANG actions - need to define OK/error or can reuse > NETCONF ok/rpc-error ? >=20 > Hi, >=20 > "Sterne, Jason (Nokia - CA/Ottawa)" wrote: > > Hi all, > > > > When defining an 'action' in a YANG 1.1 model, and we want the server > > to be able to respond with or some error information, do we need > > to define the ok/error info in the 'output' of the action, or can we > > define an action without any 'output' statement and have the server > > respond using the typical or in NETCONF ? >=20 > You don't need to define "ok" - see section 7.15.2, the last paragraph > of RFC 7950: >=20 > If the action operation invocation succeeded and no output parameters > are returned, the contains a single element defined > in [RFC6241]. If output parameters are returned, they are encoded as > child elements to the element defined in [RFC6241], in > the same order as they are defined within the "output" statement. >=20 >=20 >=20 > /martin >=20 > > I'm not sure if it is relevant, but when I look at the definition of > > the commit rpc in the NETCONF spec, there is no 'output' defined but > > clearly a response of or an rpc-error can be returned by a > > server. > > > > If we don't define the ok/error in the action itself then I suppose > > other types of interfaces (RESTCONF) may or may not have other ways to > > reply ok/error (at least it won't be defined by the YANG model for the > > particular action). > > > > But it does seem like a waste to go and specify ok/error information > > for every action out there if they only need to return ok or error > > information that could be carried in the standard rpc-error message. > > > > Rgds, > > Jason From nobody Fri Jun 8 01:44:33 2018 Return-Path: X-Original-To: netmod@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: netmod@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6975D130E37 for ; Fri, 8 Jun 2018 01:44:31 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.901 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.901 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id HgfxYPQEc8Oq for ; Fri, 8 Jun 2018 01:44:28 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail.tail-f.com (mail.tail-f.com [46.21.102.45]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7B889130E35 for ; Fri, 8 Jun 2018 01:44:28 -0700 (PDT) Received: from localhost (unknown [173.38.220.61]) by mail.tail-f.com (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 50B141AE027A; Fri, 8 Jun 2018 10:44:25 +0200 (CEST) Date: Fri, 08 Jun 2018 10:44:24 +0200 (CEST) Message-Id: <20180608.104424.959527989316421656.mbj@tail-f.com> To: jason.sterne@nokia.com Cc: netmod@ietf.org From: Martin Bjorklund In-Reply-To: References: <20180607.232059.254974416192719323.mbj@tail-f.com> X-Mailer: Mew version 6.7 on Emacs 24.5 / Mule 6.0 (HANACHIRUSATO) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: Text/Plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Archived-At: Subject: Re: [netmod] YANG actions - need to define OK/error or can reuse NETCONF ok/rpc-error ? X-BeenThere: netmod@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.26 Precedence: list List-Id: NETMOD WG list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 08 Jun 2018 08:44:32 -0000 "Sterne, Jason (Nokia - CA/Ottawa)" wrote: > Thanks Martin. I should have found that myself when I was looking > through that section. > > What about the case where the operation invocation did not succeed and > there are no output parameters defined ? In NETCONF that will be a , as per RFC 6241. The action is invoked with a normal NETCONF message. /martin > > Rgds, > Jason > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: Martin Bjorklund [mailto:mbj@tail-f.com] > > Sent: Thursday, June 7, 2018 5:21 PM > > To: Sterne, Jason (Nokia - CA/Ottawa) > > Cc: netmod@ietf.org > > Subject: Re: [netmod] YANG actions - need to define OK/error or can > > reuse > > NETCONF ok/rpc-error ? > > > > Hi, > > > > "Sterne, Jason (Nokia - CA/Ottawa)" wrote: > > > Hi all, > > > > > > When defining an 'action' in a YANG 1.1 model, and we want the server > > > to be able to respond with or some error information, do we need > > > to define the ok/error info in the 'output' of the action, or can we > > > define an action without any 'output' statement and have the server > > > respond using the typical or in NETCONF ? > > > > You don't need to define "ok" - see section 7.15.2, the last paragraph > > of RFC 7950: > > > > If the action operation invocation succeeded and no output parameters > > are returned, the contains a single element defined > > in [RFC6241]. If output parameters are returned, they are encoded as > > child elements to the element defined in [RFC6241], in > > the same order as they are defined within the "output" statement. > > > > > > > > /martin > > > > > I'm not sure if it is relevant, but when I look at the definition of > > > the commit rpc in the NETCONF spec, there is no 'output' defined but > > > clearly a response of or an rpc-error can be returned by a > > > server. > > > > > > If we don't define the ok/error in the action itself then I suppose > > > other types of interfaces (RESTCONF) may or may not have other ways to > > > reply ok/error (at least it won't be defined by the YANG model for the > > > particular action). > > > > > > But it does seem like a waste to go and specify ok/error information > > > for every action out there if they only need to return ok or error > > > information that could be carried in the standard rpc-error message. > > > > > > Rgds, > > > Jason > From nobody Mon Jun 11 09:33:07 2018 Return-Path: X-Original-To: netmod@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: netmod@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9009B130FD4 for ; Mon, 11 Jun 2018 09:33:05 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.588 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.588 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, NORMAL_HTTP_TO_IP=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW=-0.7, T_KAM_HTML_FONT_INVALID=0.01] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id Zazx7YrdxrTA for ; Mon, 11 Jun 2018 09:33:02 -0700 (PDT) Received: from us-smtp-delivery-128.mimecast.com (us-smtp-delivery-128.mimecast.com [63.128.21.128]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 92299130E82 for ; Mon, 11 Jun 2018 09:33:01 -0700 (PDT) Received: from ex-hc2.corp.adtran.com (ex-hc3.adtran.com [76.164.174.83]) (Using TLS) by us-smtp-1.mimecast.com with ESMTP id us-mta-10-3Dx0gFo6O6yPo_4ZQSkOWw-1; Mon, 11 Jun 2018 12:32:57 -0400 Received: from ex-mb1.corp.adtran.com ([fe80::51a3:972d:5f16:9952]) by ex-hc2.corp.adtran.com ([fe80::a019:449b:3f62:28e5%10]) with mapi id 14.03.0382.000; Mon, 11 Jun 2018 11:32:56 -0500 From: NICK HANCOCK To: "netmod@ietf.org" Thread-Topic: =?Windows-1252?Q?draft-ietf-netconf-netconf-client-server_=96_TCP_keepali?= =?Windows-1252?Q?ves?= Thread-Index: AdQBbiz3wyrw29ouRVmaGb3eDwAolA== Date: Mon, 11 Jun 2018 16:32:56 +0000 Message-ID: Accept-Language: en-US, en-GB Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-titus-metadata-40: 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 x-originating-ip: [172.20.60.154] MIME-Version: 1.0 X-MC-Unique: 3Dx0gFo6O6yPo_4ZQSkOWw-1 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="_000_BD6D193629F47C479266C0985F16AAC7F0707C76exmb1corpadtran_" Archived-At: Subject: [netmod] =?windows-1252?q?draft-ietf-netconf-netconf-client-serv?= =?windows-1252?q?er_=96_TCP_keepalives?= X-BeenThere: netmod@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.26 Precedence: list List-Id: NETMOD WG list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 11 Jun 2018 16:33:06 -0000 --_000_BD6D193629F47C479266C0985F16AAC7F0707C76exmb1corpadtran_ Content-Type: text/plain; charset=WINDOWS-1252 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hi All, A couple of companies are working on a solutions to implement devices, such= as DPUs, based on the requirements of the Broadband Forum Technical Report= TR-301 issue 2 =93Architecture and Requirements for Fiber to the Distribut= ion Point=94, which requires TLS for the persistent NETCONF connection, for= which the configuration of call home is to be by means of the =91ietf-netc= onf-server=92 module. TLS heartbeat cannot be supported to keep the call home connection alive, b= ecause TLS heartbeat is not or no longer supported by many TLS libraries, s= uch as OpenSSL in the wake of the Heartbleed security bug. Although TCP kee= p-alives are not secure, we will nevertheless be required to support TCP ke= epalives to ensure that the connection remains persistent and these keepali= ves would also need to be configurable. Unfortunately, the keepalive config= uration implemented in =91ietf-netconf-server=92, although not bound to the= =91transport=92 choice, is bound to the secure layer textually in the desc= ription of the data nodes (references to =93SSH/TLS client=94 and =93SSH/TL= S-level message=94), which makes its use for configuring TCP keepalives for= specific implementations possible, but obviously problematic. RFC 8071, Se= ction 4.1, S7, also heavily implies that it is intended to be used for the = designated transport layer (e.g., SSH, TLS). Since this issue affects the industry as a whole, we believe it would be be= tter to provide support for the configuration of TCP keepalives within the = =91ietf-netconf-server=92 module from the beginning, rather than wait for o= ther SDOs or vendors to augment the module after publication as an RFC, whi= ch they will be practicably forced to do. Would supporting TCP keepalives in the IETF-defined module be something the= WG would agree to discuss? A possible solution, shown below, could be to a= dd a new container parallel to the existing =91keep-alives=92 container to = explicitly support the configuration for TCP keepalives. In addition, a fea= ture statement (e.g. "keep-alives") could be added to the existing =91keep-= alives=92 container, as RFC 8071 S7 says SHOULD (not MUST). container tcp-keep-alives { if-feature tcp-keep-alives; description "Configures the keep-alive policy, to proactively test the aliveness of the TCP peer. An unresponsive TCP peer will be dropped after approximately max-attempts * max-wait seconds."; reference "RFC 1122: Requ= irements for Internet Hosts -- Communication Layers, section 4.2.3.6."; leaf max-wait { type uint16 { range "1..32767"; } units seconds; default 30; description "Sets the amount of time in seconds after which if no data has been received from the TCP peer, a TCP-level message will be sent to test the aliveness of the TCP peer."; } leaf max-attempts { type uint8 { range "1..127"; } default 3; description "Sets the maximum number of sequential keep- alive messages that can fail to obtain a response from the TCP peer before assuming the TCP peer is no longer alive."; } leaf interval-between-attempts { type uint16 { range "1..32767"; } units seconds; default 30; description "Sets the amount of time in seconds after which, if no reply to a keep-alive message has been received from the TCP peer, the next keep-alive message will be sent."; } } } What is the opinion of the list? Would this solution work? Best regards Nick & Yves --_000_BD6D193629F47C479266C0985F16AAC7F0707C76exmb1corpadtran_ Content-Type: text/html; charset=WINDOWS-1252 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

Hi All, =

 

A couple of compani= es are working on a solutions to implement devices, such as DPUs, based on = the requirements of the Broadband Forum Technical Report TR-301 issue 2 =93= Architecture and Requirements for Fiber to the Distribution Point=94, which requires TLS for the persistent NETCON= F connection, for which the configuration of call home is to be by means of= the =91ietf-netconf-server=92 module.

 

TLS heartbeat canno= t be supported to keep the call home connection alive, because TLS heartbea= t is not or no longer supported by many TLS libraries, such as OpenSSL in t= he wake of the Heartbleed security bug. Although TCP keep-alives are not secure, we will nevertheless be required = to support TCP keepalives to ensure that the connection remains persistent = and these keepalives would also need to be configurable. Unfortunately, the= keepalive configuration implemented in =91ietf-netconf-server=92, although not bound to the =91transport=92 ch= oice, is bound to the secure layer textually in the description of the data= nodes (references to =93SSH/TLS client=94 and =93SSH/TLS-level message=94)= , which makes its use for configuring TCP keepalives for specific implementations possible, but obviously problematic. RFC 8071= , Section 4.1, S7, also heavily implies that it is intended to be used for = the designated transport layer (e.g., SSH, TLS).

 

Since this issue af= fects the industry as a whole, we believe it would be better to provide sup= port for the configuration of TCP keepalives within the =91ietf-netconf-ser= ver=92 module from the beginning, rather than wait for other SDOs or vendors to augment the module after publicatio= n as an RFC, which they will be practicably forced to do.=

 

Would supporting TCP keepalives in the IETF-defined module be so= mething the WG would agree to discuss? A possible solution, shown below, co= uld be to add a new container parallel to the existing =91keep-alives=92 container to ex= plicitly support the configuration for TCP keepalives. In addition, a feature statement (e.g. "keep-alives") could be added to= the existing =91keep-alives=92 container, as RFC 8071 S7 says SHOULD (not = MUST). 

      &=
nbsp;            con=
tainer tcp-keep-alives {
      &=
nbsp;           &nbs=
p;  if-feature tcp-keep-alives;
      &=
nbsp;           &nbs=
p;  description
      &=
nbsp;           &nbs=
p;    "Configures the keep-alive policy, to<=
/span>
      &=
nbsp;           &nbs=
p;     proactively test the aliveness of the TCP
      &=
nbsp;           &nbs=
p;     peer.  An unresponsive TCP peer will
      &=
nbsp;           &nbs=
p;     be dropped after approximately max-attempts *
      &=
nbsp;           &nbs=
p;     max-wait seconds.";
      &=
nbsp;           &nbs=
p;  reference
      &=
nbsp;           &nbs=
p;    "=
RFC 1122: Requirements for Inte=
rnet Hosts -- 
      &=
nbsp;           &nbs=
p;     Communication Layers, section 4.2.3.6.";
      &=
nbsp;           &nbs=
p;  leaf max-wait {
      &=
nbsp;           &nbs=
p;    type uint16 {
      &=
nbsp;           &nbs=
p;      range "1..32767";
      &=
nbsp;           &nbs=
p;    }
      &=
nbsp;           &nbs=
p;    units seconds;
      &=
nbsp;           &nbs=
p;    default 30;
      &=
nbsp;           &nbs=
p;    description
      &=
nbsp;           &nbs=
p;     "Sets the amount of time in seconds after
      &=
nbsp;           &nbs=
p;      which if no data has been received from
      &=
nbsp;           &nbs=
p;      the TCP peer, a TCP-level message
      &=
nbsp;           &nbs=
p;      will be sent to test the aliveness of the<=
o:p>
      &=
nbsp;           &nbs=
p;      TCP peer.";
       =
            &nb=
sp; }
      &=
nbsp;           &nbs=
p;  leaf max-attempts {
      &=
nbsp;           &nbs=
p;    type uint8 {
      &=
nbsp;           &nbs=
p;      range "1..127";
      &=
nbsp;           &nbs=
p;    }
      &=
nbsp;           &nbs=
p;    default 3;
      &=
nbsp;           &nbs=
p;    description
      &=
nbsp;           &nbs=
p;     "Sets the maximum number of sequential keep=
-
      &=
nbsp;           &nbs=
p;     alive messages that can fail to obtain a
      &=
nbsp;           &nbs=
p;     response from the TCP peer before
      &=
nbsp;           &nbs=
p;     assuming the TCP peer is no longer
      &=
nbsp;           &nbs=
p;     alive.";
      &=
nbsp;           &nbs=
p;  }
      &=
nbsp;           &nbs=
p;  leaf interval-between-attempts {
      &=
nbsp;           &nbs=
p;    type uint16  {
      &=
nbsp;           &nbs=
p;      range "1..32767";
      &=
nbsp;           &nbs=
p;    }
      &=
nbsp;           &nbs=
p;    units seconds;
      &=
nbsp;           &nbs=
p;    default 30;
      &=
nbsp;           &nbs=
p;    description
      &=
nbsp;           &nbs=
p;     "Sets the amount of time in seconds after
      &=
nbsp;           &nbs=
p;      which, if no reply to a keep-alive message=

      &=
nbsp;           &nbs=
p;      has been received from the TCP peer, the
      &=
nbsp;           &nbs=
p;      next keep-alive message will be sent."=
;;
      &=
nbsp;           &nbs=
p;  }
      &=
nbsp;            }
      &=
nbsp;          }

 

 

What is the opinion= of the list? Would this solution work?

 

Best regards

Nick & Yves

 

 

 

 

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Hello,

I submitted a new version of the yang-instance-data draft updated with comments from the last IETF and others. I would like to get this adopted as a workgroup item. Please review it and if you like it please indicate that you support it as a workgroup item.

Changes:
   o  Redefined using yang-data-ext
   o  Moved meta data into ordinary leafs/leaf-lists
   o  Corrections, clarifications

regards Balazs


-------- Forwarded Message --------
Subject: New Version Notification for draft-lengyel-netmod-yang-instance-data-01.txt
Date: Wed, 13 Jun 2018 06:47:16 -0700
From: internet-drafts@ietf.org
To: Benoit Claise <bclaise@cisco.com>, Balazs Lengyel <balazs.lengyel@ericsson.com> 


A new version of I-D, draft-lengyel-netmod-yang-instance-data-01.txt
has been successfully submitted by Balazs Lengyel and posted to the
IETF repository.

Name:		draft-lengyel-netmod-yang-instance-data
Revision:	01
Title:		YANG Instance Data Files and their use for Documenting Server Capabilities
Document date:	2018-06-13
Group:		Individual Submission
Pages:		10
URL:            https://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-lengyel-netmod-yang-instance-data-01.txt
Status:         https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-lengyel-netmod-yang-instance-data/
Htmlized:       https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-lengyel-netmod-yang-instance-data-01
Htmlized:       https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/html/draft-lengyel-netmod-yang-instance-data
Diff:           https://www.ietf.org/rfcdiff?url2=draft-lengyel-netmod-yang-instance-data-01

Abstract:
   This document specifies a standard file format for YANG instance
   data, that is data that could be stored in a datastore and whose
   syntax and semantics is defined by YANG models.  Instance data files
   can be used to provide information that is defined in design time.
   There is a need to document Server capabilities (which are often
   specified in design time), which should be done using instance data
   files.

                                                                                  


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-- 
Balazs Lengyel                       Ericsson Hungary Ltd.
Senior Specialist
Mobile: +36-70-330-7909              email: Balazs.Lengyel@ericsson.com
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Hello,

I submitted a new version of the yang-instance-data draft updated with comments from the last IETF and others. I would like to get this adopted as a workgroup item. Please review it and if you like it please indicate that you support it as a workgroup item.

Changes:
   o  Redefined using yang-data-ext
   o  Moved meta data into ordinary leafs/leaf-lists
   o  Corrections, clarifications

regards Balazs


-------- Forwarded Message --------
Subject: New Version Notification for draft-lengyel-netmod-yang-instance-data-01.txt
Date: Wed, 13 Jun 2018 06:47:16 -0700
From: internet-drafts@ietf.org
To: Benoit Claise <bclaise@cisco.com>, Balazs Lengyel <balazs.lengyel@ericsson.com> 


A new version of I-D, draft-lengyel-netmod-yang-instance-data-01.txt
has been successfully submitted by Balazs Lengyel and posted to the
IETF repository.

Name:		draft-lengyel-netmod-yang-instance-data
Revision:	01
Title:		YANG Instance Data Files and their use for Documenting Server Capabilities
Document date:	2018-06-13
Group:		Individual Submission
Pages:		10
URL:            https://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-lengyel-netmod-yang-instance-data-01.txt
Status:         https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-lengyel-netmod-yang-instance-data/
Htmlized:       https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-lengyel-netmod-yang-instance-data-01
Htmlized:       https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/html/draft-lengyel-netmod-yang-instance-data
Diff:           https://www.ietf.org/rfcdiff?url2=draft-lengyel-netmod-yang-instance-data-01

Abstract:
   This document specifies a standard file format for YANG instance
   data, that is data that could be stored in a datastore and whose
   syntax and semantics is defined by YANG models.  Instance data files
   can be used to provide information that is defined in design time.
   There is a need to document Server capabilities (which are often
   specified in design time), which should be done using instance data
   files.

                                                                                  


Please note that it may take a couple of minutes from the time of submission
until the htmlized version and diff are available at tools.ietf.org.

The IETF Secretariat


-- 
Balazs Lengyel                       Ericsson Hungary Ltd.
Senior Specialist
Mobile: +36-70-330-7909              email: Balazs.Lengyel@ericsson.com
From nobody Wed Jun 13 07:40:38 2018 Return-Path: X-Original-To: netmod@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: netmod@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 427FB130E35 for ; Wed, 13 Jun 2018 07:40:37 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -14.51 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-14.51 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_HI=-5, SPF_PASS=-0.001, T_DKIMWL_WL_MED=-0.01, USER_IN_DEF_DKIM_WL=-7.5] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (1024-bit key) header.d=cisco.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 8-piQ97dOhQV for ; Wed, 13 Jun 2018 07:40:34 -0700 (PDT) Received: from aer-iport-2.cisco.com (aer-iport-2.cisco.com [173.38.203.52]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher DHE-RSA-SEED-SHA (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 07FD6130E34 for ; Wed, 13 Jun 2018 07:40:33 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/simple; d=cisco.com; i=@cisco.com; l=12577; q=dns/txt; s=iport; t=1528900834; x=1530110434; h=subject:to:references:from:message-id:date:mime-version: in-reply-to; bh=CFEafjpPAZ50In+oeNIgKCGiINRHOl9v0b/+YA1IoSg=; b=cH7CePJX1h9I0zrrLwpenciKBbthNYkZWwV6eQAXhDqO3EBZ04T9AF5N u160QIwutlzz5f1stegpUGL6mpIyuiLnoTc7VEUZe70lqA5Z1HjpX6MPP /HUT1tSv7sQyVgyMY2P+QLlrxhhiB2GAkwvTMg+pjnxG458vQCxRYxLVE M=; X-IronPort-Anti-Spam-Filtered: true X-IronPort-Anti-Spam-Result: =?us-ascii?q?A0B3AwDNKyFb/xbLJq1dGQEBAQEBAQE?= =?us-ascii?q?BAQEBAQcBAQEBAYMegQxtEiiDeYhjjWApj2uEfhSBZAsYAQyEAUYCglg2FgE?= =?us-ascii?q?CAQEBAQEBAm0cDIUoAQEBAQMBARsGCjoHCRILEQMBAgEqAgInKAgGAQwGAgE?= =?us-ascii?q?Bgx4CgX8Pq2mCHB+EO4NsgWiKHz+BM4JogxEBAQIBARaBEwESAQk2gmGCVQK?= =?us-ascii?q?HVgWEXYxSCYV0iQEGgT9Bgz2CRSODfIETigqBeoU5gUgHKiY7cTMaCBsVGiG?= =?us-ascii?q?CQwmCQGkBCIdWhT8+MAGMYw0XB4IbAQE?= X-IronPort-AV: E=Sophos;i="5.51,219,1526342400"; d="scan'208,217";a="4514435" Received: from aer-iport-nat.cisco.com (HELO aer-core-1.cisco.com) ([173.38.203.22]) by aer-iport-2.cisco.com with ESMTP/TLS/DHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384; 13 Jun 2018 14:40:31 +0000 Received: from [10.63.23.97] (dhcp-ensft1-uk-vla370-10-63-23-97.cisco.com [10.63.23.97]) by aer-core-1.cisco.com (8.14.5/8.14.5) with ESMTP id w5DEeVTq023636; Wed, 13 Jun 2018 14:40:31 GMT To: Balazs Lengyel , "netmod@ietf.org" References: <152889763632.15168.12247537431295038165.idtracker@ietfa.amsl.com> <75383a97-d08b-b202-70a6-eab064963af8@ericsson.com> From: Robert Wilton Message-ID: Date: Wed, 13 Jun 2018 15:40:31 +0100 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 10.0; WOW64; rv:52.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/52.8.0 MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: <75383a97-d08b-b202-70a6-eab064963af8@ericsson.com> Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="------------941A3F0CA847000EF6713F69" Content-Language: en-US Archived-At: Subject: Re: [netmod] Fwd: New Version Notification for draft-lengyel-netmod-yang-instance-data-01.txt X-BeenThere: netmod@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.26 Precedence: list List-Id: NETMOD WG list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 13 Jun 2018 14:40:38 -0000 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --------------941A3F0CA847000EF6713F69 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Hi, I would support this draft (if/when a call for adoption is made). A few comments from a quick review : 1) I think that it would be useful to allow a file to contain multiple "instance data sets".  I could easily imagine that multiple different blocks of instance data may need to be provided and allowing these to be carried within a single file seems helpful. 2) I wonder whether these instance-data blocks could be used to hold examples in drafts/RFCs.  It would be nice if the examples could be automatically extracted and validated.  Possibly this draft could help with this, although I appreciate it is not its main focus. 3) Possibly a comment should be made about whitespace, although I think that it is fairly obvious how whitespace would be handled, i.e. as defined by the encoding. 4) "YANG instance data files SHOULD be used to provide design time information about server capabilities." sounds quite strong. I think that this should either be a MAY, or the sentence should be predicated.  E.g . "If the server provides design time information about server capabilities then YANG instance data files SHOULD be used to allow them to be easily read and consumed by clients" 5) I'm wondering whether there needs to be some sort of identifier about what type data is held.  E.g. does it represent data that can be consumed as part of one of the configuration datastores, or does it represent the equivalent of operational state, or is it data for an RPC, etc. 6) If this data is to be stored in a file, should it state that it must be stored as UTF-8 character encoding? 7) It might want to include a semantic version number for an instance-data-set, depending on whether the YANG versioning discussions ends up. Thanks, Rob On 13/06/2018 15:06, Balazs Lengyel wrote: > > Hello, > > I submitted a new version of the yang-instance-data draft updated with > comments from the last IETF and others. I would like to get this > adopted as a workgroup item. Please review it and if you like it > please indicate that you support it as a workgroup item. > > Changes: >    o  Redefined using yang-data-ext >    o  Moved meta data into ordinary leafs/leaf-lists >    o  Corrections, clarifications > > regards Balazs > > > -------- Forwarded Message -------- > Subject: New Version Notification for > draft-lengyel-netmod-yang-instance-data-01.txt > Date: Wed, 13 Jun 2018 06:47:16 -0700 > From: internet-drafts@ietf.org > To: Benoit Claise , Balazs Lengyel > > > > > A new version of I-D, draft-lengyel-netmod-yang-instance-data-01.txt > has been successfully submitted by Balazs Lengyel and posted to the > IETF repository. > > Name: draft-lengyel-netmod-yang-instance-data > Revision: 01 > Title: YANG Instance Data Files and their use for Documenting Server Capabilities > Document date: 2018-06-13 > Group: Individual Submission > Pages: 10 > URL:https://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-lengyel-netmod-yang-instance-data-01.txt > Status:https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-lengyel-netmod-yang-instance-data/ > Htmlized:https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-lengyel-netmod-yang-instance-data-01 > Htmlized:https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/html/draft-lengyel-netmod-yang-instance-data > Diff:https://www.ietf.org/rfcdiff?url2=draft-lengyel-netmod-yang-instance-data-01 > > Abstract: > This document specifies a standard file format for YANG instance > data, that is data that could be stored in a datastore and whose > syntax and semantics is defined by YANG models. Instance data files > can be used to provide information that is defined in design time. > There is a need to document Server capabilities (which are often > specified in design time), which should be done using instance data > files. > > > > > Please note that it may take a couple of minutes from the time of submission > until the htmlized version and diff are available at tools.ietf.org. > > The IETF Secretariat > > -- > Balazs Lengyel Ericsson Hungary Ltd. > Senior Specialist > Mobile: +36-70-330-7909 email:Balazs.Lengyel@ericsson.com > > > _______________________________________________ > netmod mailing list > netmod@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/netmod --------------941A3F0CA847000EF6713F69 Content-Type: text/html; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit

Hi,

I would support this draft (if/when a call for adoption is made).

A few comments from a quick review :

1) I think that it would be useful to allow a file to contain multiple "instance data sets".  I could easily imagine that multiple different blocks of instance data may need to be provided and allowing these to be carried within a single file seems helpful.

2) I wonder whether these instance-data blocks could be used to hold examples in drafts/RFCs.  It would be nice if the examples could be automatically extracted and validated.  Possibly this draft could help with this, although I appreciate it is not its main focus.

3) Possibly a comment should be made about whitespace, although I think that it is fairly obvious how whitespace would be handled, i.e. as defined by the encoding.

4) "YANG instance data files SHOULD be used to provide design time information about server capabilities." sounds quite strong.  I think that this should either be a MAY, or the sentence should be predicated.  E.g . "If the server provides design time information about server capabilities then YANG instance data files SHOULD be used to allow them to be easily read and consumed by clients"

5) I'm wondering whether there needs to be some sort of identifier about what type data is held.  E.g. does it represent data that can be consumed as part of one of the configuration datastores, or does it represent the equivalent of operational state, or is it data for an RPC, etc.

6) If this data is to be stored in a file, should it state that it must be stored as UTF-8 character encoding?

7) It might want to include a semantic version number for an instance-data-set, depending on whether the YANG versioning discussions ends up.

Thanks,
Rob


On 13/06/2018 15:06, Balazs Lengyel wrote:

Hello,

I submitted a new version of the yang-instance-data draft updated with comments from the last IETF and others. I would like to get this adopted as a workgroup item. Please review it and if you like it please indicate that you support it as a workgroup item.

Changes:
   o  Redefined using yang-data-ext
   o  Moved meta data into ordinary leafs/leaf-lists
   o  Corrections, clarifications

regards Balazs


-------- Forwarded Message --------
Subject: New Version Notification for draft-lengyel-netmod-yang-instance-data-01.txt
Date: Wed, 13 Jun 2018 06:47:16 -0700
From: internet-drafts@ietf.org
To: Benoit Claise <bclaise@cisco.com>, Balazs Lengyel <balazs.lengyel@ericsson.com> 


A new version of I-D, draft-lengyel-netmod-yang-instance-data-01.txt
has been successfully submitted by Balazs Lengyel and posted to the
IETF repository.

Name:		draft-lengyel-netmod-yang-instance-data
Revision:	01
Title:		YANG Instance Data Files and their use for Documenting Server Capabilities
Document date:	2018-06-13
Group:		Individual Submission
Pages:		10
URL:            https://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-lengyel-netmod-yang-instance-data-01.txt
Status:         https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-lengyel-netmod-yang-instance-data/
Htmlized:       https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-lengyel-netmod-yang-instance-data-01
Htmlized:       https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/html/draft-lengyel-netmod-yang-instance-data
Diff:           https://www.ietf.org/rfcdiff?url2=draft-lengyel-netmod-yang-instance-data-01

Abstract:
   This document specifies a standard file format for YANG instance
   data, that is data that could be stored in a datastore and whose
   syntax and semantics is defined by YANG models.  Instance data files
   can be used to provide information that is defined in design time.
   There is a need to document Server capabilities (which are often
   specified in design time), which should be done using instance data
   files.

                                                                                  


Please note that it may take a couple of minutes from the time of submission
until the htmlized version and diff are available at tools.ietf.org.

The IETF Secretariat


-- 
Balazs Lengyel                       Ericsson Hungary Ltd.
Senior Specialist
Mobile: +36-70-330-7909              email: Balazs.Lengyel@ericsson.com 



_______________________________________________
netmod mailing list
netmod@ietf.org
https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/netmod

--------------941A3F0CA847000EF6713F69-- From nobody Wed Jun 13 08:27:00 2018 Return-Path: X-Original-To: netmod@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: netmod@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id AD492127148 for ; Wed, 13 Jun 2018 08:26:50 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.9 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.9 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 7I4qQE8iG7BT for ; Wed, 13 Jun 2018 08:26:43 -0700 (PDT) Received: from anna.localdomain (anna.eecs.jacobs-university.de [IPv6:2001:638:709:5::7]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id AD0B4130EC7 for ; Wed, 13 Jun 2018 08:26:41 -0700 (PDT) Received: by anna.localdomain (Postfix, from userid 501) id 07DFC222B78A; Wed, 13 Jun 2018 17:26:39 +0200 (CEST) Date: Wed, 13 Jun 2018 17:26:39 +0200 From: Juergen Schoenwaelder To: Robert Wilton Cc: Balazs Lengyel , "netmod@ietf.org" Message-ID: <20180613152639.gb7k2eshscmzqpiz@anna.jacobs.jacobs-university.de> Reply-To: Juergen Schoenwaelder Mail-Followup-To: Robert Wilton , Balazs Lengyel , "netmod@ietf.org" References: <152889763632.15168.12247537431295038165.idtracker@ietfa.amsl.com> <75383a97-d08b-b202-70a6-eab064963af8@ericsson.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit In-Reply-To: User-Agent: NeoMutt/20180512 Archived-At: Subject: Re: [netmod] Fwd: New Version Notification for draft-lengyel-netmod-yang-instance-data-01.txt X-BeenThere: netmod@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.26 Precedence: list List-Id: NETMOD WG list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 13 Jun 2018 15:26:58 -0000 On Wed, Jun 13, 2018 at 03:40:31PM +0100, Robert Wilton wrote: > > 5) I'm wondering whether there needs to be some sort of identifier about > what type data is held.  E.g. does it represent data that can be consumed as > part of one of the configuration datastores, or does it represent the > equivalent of operational state, or is it data for an RPC, etc. > Yes. I think I requested this before. There should be a way to indicate which datastore instance-data belongs to. I also do not understand why we have instance-data-set if the set is limited to exactly one instance-data element. Perhaps room to find a better name for the outer container or the anyxml (perhaps change instance-data-set to instance-data and instance-data to simply data). Or alternatively allow multiple instance-data portions but then meta data would need to be associated with instance-data and not instance-data-set, so we would actually need another layer. Also, given that this is supposed to be serialized in XML (or JSON I assume), would it make sense to include an XML preamble in the examples, i.e., ... ds:operational /js -- Juergen Schoenwaelder Jacobs University Bremen gGmbH Phone: +49 421 200 3587 Campus Ring 1 | 28759 Bremen | Germany Fax: +49 421 200 3103 From nobody Fri Jun 15 00:41:26 2018 Return-Path: X-Original-To: netmod@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: netmod@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id C1046130DD4 for ; Fri, 15 Jun 2018 00:41:24 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.9 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.9 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id zjOatB2aU4Zb for ; Fri, 15 Jun 2018 00:41:22 -0700 (PDT) Received: from trail.lhotka.name (trail.lhotka.name [77.48.224.143]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 06DC0130DC2 for ; Fri, 15 Jun 2018 00:41:20 -0700 (PDT) Received: by trail.lhotka.name (Postfix, from userid 109) id 6F6F61820073; Fri, 15 Jun 2018 09:47:59 +0200 (CEST) Received: from localhost (unknown [195.113.220.121]) by trail.lhotka.name (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 6EC251820051; Fri, 15 Jun 2018 09:47:57 +0200 (CEST) From: Ladislav Lhotka To: Balazs Lengyel , "netmod\@ietf.org" In-Reply-To: <75383a97-d08b-b202-70a6-eab064963af8@ericsson.com> References: <152889763632.15168.12247537431295038165.idtracker@ietfa.amsl.com> <75383a97-d08b-b202-70a6-eab064963af8@ericsson.com> Mail-Followup-To: Balazs Lengyel , "netmod\@ietf.org" Date: Fri, 15 Jun 2018 09:41:49 +0200 Message-ID: <87y3fglcn6.fsf@nic.cz> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Archived-At: Subject: Re: [netmod] Fwd: New Version Notification for draft-lengyel-netmod-yang-instance-data-01.txt X-BeenThere: netmod@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.26 Precedence: list List-Id: NETMOD WG list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 15 Jun 2018 07:41:25 -0000 Hi, I support the adoption of this I-D as a workgroup item and my plan is to implement it. However, my suggestion is to avoid the use of yang-data-ext. It is absolutely useless in this case and only complicates things that are otherwise pretty trivial. Lada Balazs Lengyel writes: > Hello, > > I submitted a new version of the yang-instance-data draft updated with comments from the last > IETF and others. I would like to get this adopted as a workgroup item. Please review it and if you > like it please indicate that you support it as a workgroup item. > > Changes: > o Redefined using yang-data-ext > o Moved meta data into ordinary leafs/leaf-lists > o Corrections, clarifications > > regards Balazs > > -------- Forwarded Message -------- > > Subject: New Version Notification for draft-lengyel-netmod-yang-instance-data-01.txt > Date: Wed, 13 Jun 2018 06:47:16 -0700 > From: internet-drafts@ietf.org > To: Benoit Claise , Balazs Lengyel > > > A new version of I-D, draft-lengyel-netmod-yang-instance-data-01.txt > has been successfully submitted by Balazs Lengyel and posted to the > IETF repository. > > Name: draft-lengyel-netmod-yang-instance-data > Revision: 01 > Title: YANG Instance Data Files and their use for Documenting Server Capabilities > Document date: 2018-06-13 > Group: Individual Submission > Pages: 10 > URL: https://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-lengyel-netmod-yang-instance-data-01.txt > Status: https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-lengyel-netmod-yang-instance-data/ > Htmlized: https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-lengyel-netmod-yang-instance-data-01 > Htmlized: https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/html/draft-lengyel-netmod-yang-instance-data > Diff: https://www.ietf.org/rfcdiff?url2=draft-lengyel-netmod-yang-instance-data-01 > > Abstract: > This document specifies a standard file format for YANG instance > data, that is data that could be stored in a datastore and whose > syntax and semantics is defined by YANG models. Instance data files > can be used to provide information that is defined in design time. > There is a need to document Server capabilities (which are often > specified in design time), which should be done using instance data > files. > > > > > Please note that it may take a couple of minutes from the time of submission > until the htmlized version and diff are available at tools.ietf.org. > > The IETF Secretariat > > -- > Balazs Lengyel Ericsson Hungary Ltd. > Senior Specialist > Mobile: +36-70-330-7909 email: Balazs.Lengyel@ericsson.com > _______________________________________________ > netmod mailing list > netmod@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/netmod -- Ladislav Lhotka Head, CZ.NIC Labs PGP Key ID: 0xB8F92B08A9F76C67 From nobody Fri Jun 15 09:09:40 2018 Return-Path: X-Original-To: netmod@ietf.org Delivered-To: netmod@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from ietfa.amsl.com (localhost [IPv6:::1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id C502712F18C; Fri, 15 Jun 2018 09:09:34 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: The IESG To: "IETF-Announce" X-Test-IDTracker: no X-IETF-IDTracker: 6.81.2 Auto-Submitted: auto-generated Precedence: bulk CC: ibagdona@gmail.com, netmod-chairs@ietf.org, netmod@ietf.org, joelja@gmail.com, draft-ietf-netmod-schema-mount@ietf.org, Kent Watsen , Lou Berger , Joel Jaeggli Reply-To: ietf@ietf.org Sender: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Message-ID: <152907897480.27366.12303940383971516911.idtracker@ietfa.amsl.com> Date: Fri, 15 Jun 2018 09:09:34 -0700 Archived-At: Subject: [netmod] Last Call: (YANG Schema Mount) to Proposed Standard X-BeenThere: netmod@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.26 List-Id: NETMOD WG list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 15 Jun 2018 16:09:35 -0000 The IESG has received a request from the Network Modeling WG (netmod) to consider the following document: - 'YANG Schema Mount' as Proposed Standard The IESG plans to make a decision in the next few weeks, and solicits final comments on this action. Please send substantive comments to the ietf@ietf.org mailing lists by 2018-06-29. Exceptionally, comments may be sent to iesg@ietf.org instead. In either case, please retain the beginning of the Subject line to allow automated sorting. Abstract This document defines a mechanism to add the schema trees defined by a set of YANG modules onto a mount point defined in the schema tree in some YANG module. The file can be obtained via https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-netmod-schema-mount/ IESG discussion can be tracked via https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-netmod-schema-mount/ballot/ No IPR declarations have been submitted directly on this I-D. From nobody Mon Jun 18 17:38:50 2018 Return-Path: X-Original-To: netmod@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: netmod@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id C996B130F8B for ; Mon, 18 Jun 2018 17:38:46 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -4.189 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-4.189 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-2.3, SPF_PASS=-0.001, T_KAM_HTML_FONT_INVALID=0.01, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id EQn0gddBtsZa for ; Mon, 18 Jun 2018 17:38:44 -0700 (PDT) Received: from huawei.com (lhrrgout.huawei.com [194.213.3.17]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id A4390130FFC for 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Pg0KPC9kaXY+DQo8L2Rpdj4NCjwvYm9keT4NCjwvaHRtbD4NCg== --_000_644DA50AFA8C314EA9BDDAC83BD38A2E0EB1906Bsjceml521mbxchi_-- From nobody Tue Jun 19 08:10:59 2018 Return-Path: X-Original-To: netmod@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: netmod@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id BEA12130E9F for ; Tue, 19 Jun 2018 08:10:56 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.9 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.9 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id mabkhXfEcnex for ; Tue, 19 Jun 2018 08:10:51 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail.tail-f.com (mail.tail-f.com [46.21.102.45]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id A81571310D2 for ; Tue, 19 Jun 2018 08:10:50 -0700 (PDT) Received: from localhost (h-80-27.A165.priv.bahnhof.se [212.85.80.27]) by mail.tail-f.com (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 8E4B21AE0403; Tue, 19 Jun 2018 17:10:49 +0200 (CEST) Date: Tue, 19 Jun 2018 17:10:49 +0200 (CEST) Message-Id: <20180619.171049.10615740932860483.mbj@tail-f.com> To: balazs.lengyel@ericsson.com Cc: netmod@ietf.org From: Martin Bjorklund In-Reply-To: <75383a97-d08b-b202-70a6-eab064963af8@ericsson.com> References: <152889763632.15168.12247537431295038165.idtracker@ietfa.amsl.com> <75383a97-d08b-b202-70a6-eab064963af8@ericsson.com> X-Mailer: Mew version 6.7 on Emacs 24.5 / Mule 6.0 (HANACHIRUSATO) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: Text/Plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Archived-At: Subject: Re: [netmod] Fwd: New Version Notification for draft-lengyel-netmod-yang-instance-data-01.txt X-BeenThere: netmod@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.26 Precedence: list List-Id: NETMOD WG list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 19 Jun 2018 15:10:57 -0000 Hi, I think this useful work, and I support it. However, I have some comments on the current draft. My main concern is that it mixes the very useful specification of instance data with requirements on the server. Specifically, I think section 4 should be re-written to be an example of what can be done. /martin Balazs Lengyel wrote: > Hello, > > I submitted a new version of the yang-instance-data draft updated with > comments from the last IETF and others. I would like to get this > adopted as a workgroup item. Please review it and if you like it > please indicate that you support it as a workgroup item. > > Changes: > o Redefined using yang-data-ext > o Moved meta data into ordinary leafs/leaf-lists > o Corrections, clarifications > > regards Balazs > > -------- Forwarded Message -------- > > Subject: New Version Notification for > draft-lengyel-netmod-yang-instance-data-01.txt > Date: Wed, 13 Jun 2018 06:47:16 -0700 > From: internet-drafts@ietf.org > To: Benoit Claise , Balazs Lengyel > > > A new version of I-D, draft-lengyel-netmod-yang-instance-data-01.txt > has been successfully submitted by Balazs Lengyel and posted to the > IETF repository. > > Name: draft-lengyel-netmod-yang-instance-data > Revision: 01 > Title: YANG Instance Data Files and their use for Documenting Server Capabilities > Document date: 2018-06-13 > Group: Individual Submission > Pages: 10 > URL: https://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-lengyel-netmod-yang-instance-data-01.txt > Status: https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-lengyel-netmod-yang-instance-data/ > Htmlized: https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-lengyel-netmod-yang-instance-data-01 > Htmlized: https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/html/draft-lengyel-netmod-yang-instance-data > Diff: https://www.ietf.org/rfcdiff?url2=draft-lengyel-netmod-yang-instance-data-01 > > Abstract: > This document specifies a standard file format for YANG instance > data, that is data that could be stored in a datastore and whose > syntax and semantics is defined by YANG models. Instance data files > can be used to provide information that is defined in design time. > There is a need to document Server capabilities (which are often > specified in design time), which should be done using instance data > files. > > > > > Please note that it may take a couple of minutes from the time of submission > until the htmlized version and diff are available at tools.ietf.org. > > The IETF Secretariat > > -- > Balazs Lengyel Ericsson Hungary Ltd. > Senior Specialist > Mobile: +36-70-330-7909 email: Balazs.Lengyel@ericsson.com From nobody Tue Jun 19 15:04:26 2018 Return-Path: X-Original-To: netmod@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: netmod@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id A5B67130F6F for ; Tue, 19 Jun 2018 15:04:24 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -14.51 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-14.51 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_HI=-5, SPF_PASS=-0.001, T_DKIMWL_WL_MED=-0.01, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001, USER_IN_DEF_DKIM_WL=-7.5] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); 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d="scan'208";a="131958961" Received: from alln-core-9.cisco.com ([173.36.13.129]) by alln-iport-2.cisco.com with ESMTP/TLS/DHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384; 19 Jun 2018 22:04:21 +0000 Received: from [10.118.87.86] (rtp-jclarke-nitro5.cisco.com [10.118.87.86]) by alln-core-9.cisco.com (8.14.5/8.14.5) with ESMTP id w5JM4Lbj026492; Tue, 19 Jun 2018 22:04:21 GMT To: Balazs Lengyel , "netmod@ietf.org" References: <152889763632.15168.12247537431295038165.idtracker@ietfa.amsl.com> From: Joe Clarke Openpgp: preference=signencrypt Autocrypt: addr=jclarke@cisco.com; prefer-encrypt=mutual; keydata= xsDiBDyDmj4RBADa/Icz5Xl+cJUGNxC/tWgXWqcA9VA8GN+PeqKhXS0BnVHntdsQxbpFUUKK 4ld0Zex/Rec1jgC/ikExJHHIee8ZVcHqP+tsWexi83/ZvEdzI95diBp2Is5fYp8P8hdIBNQS Ooc1jVYrTJUaZgJK2uBzbkh/WbipwsQbueRzXqPORwCgsPNrStLzqOpjrA7FdUz/JVQf5+8D /1SiKAOFiW4TxY+fS09lqiLs3mbXjvw23iQwLxje4vBd4+b9iAUWOsSretSKv6OE9ZlD4FYe a8HmMgEkuKfXGc8GvTq4J1uHZ0gcVbrBGmxAUBPPaAENYEJfJf7dcysKVAl14ZQVIvzAGJAZ HGuegD7uekGKnOEA61R3ze4aM2zNA/96I77l0qiMc6J7gXmiD5uxC7FsSCFj5sqTYMgBqzIY EZjU/tTUbth84xcRi4X0WNkaILqq1mOcBfmzQMvzG1n1CydmJU6iF1ewle6cIui9TQYg5CES rJF7xid4vVXRz+xi6hc1+0bSaoJa3sfpNrSSr0lKGdWHZozWdQjOvTMCXc1CSm9lIE1hcmN1 cyBDbGFya2UgKEZyZWVCU0QgY29tbWl0dGVyIGFkZHJlc3MpIDxtYXJjdXNARnJlZUJTRC5v cmc+wl8EExECABcFAjyuLU0FCwcKAwQDFQMCAxYCAQIXgAASCRBvaI+K/hTPhwdlR1BHAAEB 7U0AoICIVoBe9B8bo1lrvHh+UF7GY/WaAJ9C2mCThFrmqxCr2bCtR12UoPCPqs7ATQQ8g5pA EAQAqk1J4LBDLeWs6ZOkPDYYcKCSAu0qlzEf5YP/TcSeZcjJyXILgesFXcayoy1v7ILPQSXj 4p5uzRyn0fuGqiTvajjxMZz1aSkvgGyS+gc+PDmi4SJ2N/tX2isrul8MK+NGeUsLuZaM1JKh gKpq9yuu3D3ELG7ESga7xsOs1V/sSd8AAwUD/20XByIlsUUC/65KG/DQ1WfX2gNuy5If9tSP Q6h1Lno5Hv3ow3ktybIoQSxbcBo28nA/Gzg5NFGVkkqfOkH2xtS6V0K/WjzsrloBHCPFiKp2 yHpXfKubxl8yefQPTMj8hLwlBKrNiN1fz5/629TIkEwDwrUwHxQreE7FAzPMqHORwkYEGBEC AAYFAjyDmkAACgkQb2iPiv4Uz4cnuQCfX1zNrahRTWz/HRpF7ms8qZqzdOIAn1uuu6Jst43p DzanBHUOBzUP6ymA Organization: Cisco Message-ID: Date: Tue, 19 Jun 2018 18:04:20 -0400 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Macintosh; Intel Mac OS X 10.13; rv:52.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/52.8.0 MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Language: en-US Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Archived-At: Subject: Re: [netmod] Fwd: New Version Notification for draft-lengyel-netmod-yang-instance-data-01.txt X-BeenThere: netmod@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.26 Precedence: list List-Id: NETMOD WG list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 19 Jun 2018 22:04:25 -0000 As I stated at the mic at 101, I support this work (and would support its WG adoption). In particular, the YANG Catalog can make use of instance-data in how we capture a server's capabilities to describe what modules a server (at a specific software revision) implements. To that end, we would want to augment instance-data-set in order to add our custom metadata (e.g., the platform name, version of code, etc.). The state of the yang-data-ext draft is not clear, and I hope that can be resolved such that we can augment yang-data. Joe On 6/13/18 10:03, Balazs Lengyel wrote: > Hello, > > I submitted a new version of the yang-instance-data draft updated with > comments from the last IETF and others. I would like to get this adopted > as a workgroup item. Please review it and if you like it please indicate > that you support it as a workgroup item. > > Changes: >    o  Redefined using yang-data-ext >    o  Moved meta data into ordinary leafs/leaf-lists >    o  Corrections, clarifications > > regards Balazs > > > -------- Forwarded Message -------- > Subject: New Version Notification for > draft-lengyel-netmod-yang-instance-data-01.txt > Date: Wed, 13 Jun 2018 06:47:16 -0700 > From: internet-drafts@ietf.org > To: Benoit Claise , Balazs Lengyel > > > > > A new version of I-D, draft-lengyel-netmod-yang-instance-data-01.txt > has been successfully submitted by Balazs Lengyel and posted to the > IETF repository. > > Name: draft-lengyel-netmod-yang-instance-data > Revision: 01 > Title: YANG Instance Data Files and their use for Documenting Server Capabilities > Document date: 2018-06-13 > Group: Individual Submission > Pages: 10 > URL: https://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-lengyel-netmod-yang-instance-data-01.txt > Status: https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-lengyel-netmod-yang-instance-data/ > Htmlized: https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-lengyel-netmod-yang-instance-data-01 > Htmlized: https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/html/draft-lengyel-netmod-yang-instance-data > Diff: https://www.ietf.org/rfcdiff?url2=draft-lengyel-netmod-yang-instance-data-01 > > Abstract: > This document specifies a standard file format for YANG instance > data, that is data that could be stored in a datastore and whose > syntax and semantics is defined by YANG models. Instance data files > can be used to provide information that is defined in design time. > There is a need to document Server capabilities (which are often > specified in design time), which should be done using instance data > files. > > > > > Please note that it may take a couple of minutes from the time of submission > until the htmlized version and diff are available at tools.ietf.org. > > The IETF Secretariat > > -- > Balazs Lengyel Ericsson Hungary Ltd. > Senior Specialist > Mobile: +36-70-330-7909 email: Balazs.Lengyel@ericsson.com > > > > _______________________________________________ > netmod mailing list > netmod@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/netmod > From nobody Thu Jun 21 10:02:17 2018 Return-Path: X-Original-To: netmod@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: netmod@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3E787130E9C; Thu, 21 Jun 2018 10:02:15 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com 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bits=0) by nagasaki.bogus.com (8.15.2/8.15.2) with ESMTPSA id w5O4XQV1092524; Sun, 24 Jun 2018 04:33:28 GMT (envelope-from joelja@bogus.com) X-Authentication-Warning: nagasaki.bogus.com: Host [IPv6:2607:fb90:4e91:9c62:dda2:9d9:fcdb:4957] claimed to be MBP.local To: Qin Wu , "netmod@ietf.org" References: From: joel jaeggli Openpgp: preference=signencrypt Autocrypt: addr=joelja@bogus.com; prefer-encrypt=mutual; keydata= xsDiBD832SIRBADVEfzsfIX+fuN2XUPyyEXP4Mq8dqpjmcy+XTIHzZLVKzxmP+17zJYTj9MR dMA5vuZRsRpzFoeDMOJyHVVyaQeSwEApO3FJOej+CNAXpaTLYgobL1XcsQXMTbeNT5x9ZK+R ZQtoC8Vunv6UTygY+kHUHvNijhVtJtCcAW0NE2fiWwCgjKPAldaGNbPg6SKvSTFipsPPqoUE ALKjZApjCG/3Yi4kHgzCQw65mfE9u8O7bZcrvmzzRgmwShyQjrRNgxhwl2q9+e8Uo6kuk56q 0Q4On6y873W6EtBRYLTU5MiIK3mspi5YYpIi/F2XTkcW6Dx/C/ZQQ8WddAyX6QLAXHYMus86 x7tzjGM3HVlvJpWTb4CqcDOcvZakA/9aJhMEffleJx+6xrjZTUYvAQDYUSRWNmc+ehyAuh/B KH0DKqhkLlm0SBdsnKvQHXbdjhu9m9K4E6aR/s117QK60jZo1XNrVKJ1oM3X+2DNmDBl/K33 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MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Content-Language: en-US Archived-At: Subject: Re: [netmod] Call for adoption request of draft-kwatsen-netmod-artwork-folding-04 X-BeenThere: netmod@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.26 Precedence: list List-Id: NETMOD WG list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sun, 24 Jun 2018 04:33:37 -0000 I support this. thanks joel On 6/22/18 6:37 PM, Qin Wu wrote: > Dear WG, > > As you may recall I presented yang-xml-doc-conventions in London. There was strong support for trying to solve the problem and mixed views on the solution, other than that we should do it fast. In the meanwhile, Kent submitted artwork-folding as an alternative solution. > > The authors of the two drafts decided to combine efforts. After several internal iterations on both drafts, the drafts were becoming more alike than different(both support auto wrapping or auto folding). The artwork-folding draft was selected as a preferred offering basis (i.e., draft-kwatsen-netmod-artwork-folding-04) to the working group to consider for adoption. > > The primary feature differences remained are: > - all folded lines continue of column 0 without two character indentation, i.e., whether auto indentation should be supported. > - handle two special case on backslash and space at the end of broken line in yang-xml-doc-conventions. > - propose to use to extract artwork from I-Ds. > > Thanks, > Qin, Kent, Benoit and Adrian > -----邮件原件----- > å‘件人: internet-drafts@ietf.org [mailto:internet-drafts@ietf.org] > å‘é€æ—¶é—´: 2018å¹´6月23æ—¥ 9:33 > 收件人: Benoit Claise; Qin Wu; Kent Watsen; Adrian Farrel; Benoît Claise > 主题: New Version Notification for draft-kwatsen-netmod-artwork-folding-04.txt > > > A new version of I-D, draft-kwatsen-netmod-artwork-folding-04.txt > has been successfully submitted by Qin Wu and posted to the IETF repository. > > Name: draft-kwatsen-netmod-artwork-folding > Revision: 04 > Title: Handling Long Lines in Artwork in Drafts > Document date: 2018-06-22 > Group: Individual Submission > Pages: 9 > URL: https://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-kwatsen-netmod-artwork-folding-04.txt > Status: https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-kwatsen-netmod-artwork-folding/ > Htmlized: https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-kwatsen-netmod-artwork-folding-04 > Htmlized: https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/html/draft-kwatsen-netmod-artwork-folding > Diff: https://www.ietf.org/rfcdiff?url2=draft-kwatsen-netmod-artwork-folding-04 > > Abstract: > This document introduces a simple and yet time-proven strategy for > handling long lines in artwork in drafts using a backslash ('\') > character where line-folding has occurred. The strategy works on any > text based artwork, producing consistent results regardless the > artwork content. Using a per-artwork header, the strategy is both > self-documenting and enables automated reconstitution of the original > artwork. > > > > > Please note that it may take a couple of minutes from the time of submission until the htmlized version and diff are available at tools.ietf.org. > > The IETF Secretariat > > _______________________________________________ > netmod mailing list > netmod@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/netmod > From nobody Mon Jun 25 06:32:52 2018 Return-Path: X-Original-To: netmod@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: netmod@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id D875A130DF0 for ; Mon, 25 Jun 2018 06:32:49 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -14.5 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-14.5 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_HI=-5, 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with ESMTP id w5PDWknh021952 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Mon, 25 Jun 2018 13:32:46 GMT Received: from xch-rtp-009.cisco.com (64.101.220.149) by XCH-RTP-010.cisco.com (64.101.220.150) with Microsoft SMTP Server (TLS) id 15.0.1320.4; Mon, 25 Jun 2018 09:32:46 -0400 Received: from xch-rtp-009.cisco.com ([64.101.220.149]) by XCH-RTP-009.cisco.com ([64.101.220.149]) with mapi id 15.00.1320.000; Mon, 25 Jun 2018 09:32:45 -0400 From: "Einar Nilsen-Nygaard (einarnn)" To: Balazs Lengyel CC: "netmod@ietf.org" Thread-Topic: [netmod] New Version Notification for draft-lengyel-netmod-yang-instance-data-01.txt Thread-Index: AQHUDIkA6ZslKM6h+kKo637gd0P+og== Date: Mon, 25 Jun 2018 13:32:45 +0000 Message-ID: <2D749226-4AFD-45B7-8718-50CBFC8F5489@cisco.com> References: <152889763632.15168.12247537431295038165.idtracker@ietfa.amsl.com> <75383a97-d08b-b202-70a6-eab064963af8@ericsson.com> In-Reply-To: <75383a97-d08b-b202-70a6-eab064963af8@ericsson.com> Accept-Language: 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X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.9 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.9 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id d-dHXSSIngIg for ; Mon, 25 Jun 2018 06:45:39 -0700 (PDT) Received: from trail.lhotka.name (trail.lhotka.name [77.48.224.143]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7485B130DF4 for ; Mon, 25 Jun 2018 06:45:39 -0700 (PDT) Received: by trail.lhotka.name (Postfix, from userid 109) id DA26A1820075; Mon, 25 Jun 2018 15:52:13 +0200 (CEST) Received: from localhost (unknown [195.113.220.121]) by trail.lhotka.name (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 9532A1820051 for ; Mon, 25 Jun 2018 15:52:13 +0200 (CEST) From: Ladislav Lhotka To: netmod@ietf.org Mail-Followup-To: netmod@ietf.org Date: Mon, 25 Jun 2018 15:46:16 +0200 Message-ID: <87muvjges7.fsf@nic.cz> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Archived-At: Subject: [netmod] 6087bis - Security Considerations template X-BeenThere: netmod@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.26 Precedence: list List-Id: NETMOD WG list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 25 Jun 2018 13:45:41 -0000 Hi, Shawn Emery reviewed draft-ietf-netmod-schema-mount-10 and made this editorial comment: OLD: These are the subtrees and data nodes and their sensitivity/vulnerability: NEW: The following should be considered for subtrees/data nodes and their corresponding sensitivity/vulnerability: However, the OLD fomulation comes from RFC 6087, so perhaps this change should be applied in draft-ietf-netmod-rfc6087bis in the first place. The NEW formulation indeed looks better to me. Lada -- Ladislav Lhotka Head, CZ.NIC Labs PGP Key ID: 0xB8F92B08A9F76C67 From nobody Mon Jun 25 07:07:35 2018 Return-Path: X-Original-To: netmod@ietf.org Delivered-To: netmod@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from ietfa.amsl.com (localhost [IPv6:::1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id C5FE3124C04; Mon, 25 Jun 2018 07:07:26 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: The IESG To: "IETF-Announce" X-Test-IDTracker: no X-IETF-IDTracker: 6.81.3 Auto-Submitted: auto-generated Precedence: bulk CC: ibagdona@gmail.com, netmod-chairs@ietf.org, kwatsen@juniper.net, netmod@ietf.org, Kent Watsen , draft-ietf-netmod-acl-model@ietf.org Reply-To: ietf@ietf.org Sender: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Message-ID: <152993564680.6249.16618999238081481807.idtracker@ietfa.amsl.com> Date: Mon, 25 Jun 2018 07:07:26 -0700 Archived-At: Subject: [netmod] Last Call: (Network Access Control List (ACL) YANG Data Model) to Proposed Standard X-BeenThere: netmod@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.26 List-Id: NETMOD WG list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 25 Jun 2018 14:07:27 -0000 The IESG has received a request from the Network Modeling WG (netmod) to consider the following document: - 'Network Access Control List (ACL) YANG Data Model' as Proposed Standard The IESG plans to make a decision in the next few weeks, and solicits final comments on this action. Please send substantive comments to the ietf@ietf.org mailing lists by 2018-07-09. Exceptionally, comments may be sent to iesg@ietf.org instead. In either case, please retain the beginning of the Subject line to allow automated sorting. Abstract This document defines a data model for Access Control List (ACL). An ACL is a user-ordered set of rules, used to configure the forwarding behavior in device. Each rule is used to find a match on a packet, and define actions that will be performed on the packet. The file can be obtained via https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-netmod-acl-model/ IESG discussion can be tracked via https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-netmod-acl-model/ballot/ No IPR declarations have been submitted directly on this I-D. 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Mon, 25 Jun 2018 19:45:43 GMT To: Kent Watsen , "netmod@ietf.org" Cc: "netmod-chairs@ietf.org" , "draft-ietf-netconf-restconf@ietf.org" , "draft-ietf-netconf-zerotouch@ietf.org" , "draft-ietf-netconf-notification-messages@ietf.org" References: <20180502.092527.2305319833268262996.mbj@tail-f.com> <9fca04b0-fb29-36b3-67aa-2f2c4fb98748@cisco.com> <20180502.112506.845305331945500257.mbj@tail-f.com> <20180502093626.ugsg6nq24a6vjtdn@elstar.local> <64990DFB-CF50-401A-A4EF-B6161C8D227B@juniper.net> <20180529170900.qboedr2rmefsmblc@anna.jacobs.jacobs-university.de> <87muwe4pjt.fsf@nic.cz> <6AF80451-1644-4B1B-A6DD-3A42D4EEFB7A@juniper.net> From: Joe Clarke Openpgp: preference=signencrypt Autocrypt: addr=jclarke@cisco.com; prefer-encrypt=mutual; keydata= xsDiBDo1cJ0RBADSZSmbmzdRr1CoRWWKmAyu0eaQimaLV1TsZEML/ksLyg6faXrKIA/MWc7M w4FmKkDjaZdFzobzabnKp2QwVadLqi1gYY2WsApKC0rSoqsPx5E847AmwNWXgjXiXORXmnZL mf5PZ2ECOEJC27sji5Nrh9GSw7OPp6c+EE20gMNVrwCgu3iK5vyGQfy0/wX/jcIvP0nHznUD /RvijiKomyaf6F5pibmouFNeuCDHc8lwx2giA/MCZl/nSkI2/UX27sULGNgvKNkVPu/AukXu zW3fIthsJgjQZUoi/BTe9kUP+RL3+RALXXuLv7b3xGRHJ8A1Rpy9H43fkjHZ945YNPrUvJlG LP5PNGBD1xC21X3EGAyywVynDskcA/4qgbJFkVzmPjFJUjq+RW1zw3UIb3bbkskl/wk5qd+M w2EhiSPTbEhJQAQUvqSGFWEGp2ANic7iYLdPXV/O6I1/guRRaY0eK77YkkCjz1snaKYnGSeI GHGwmHb6D+ZHzTqZqr6IssgEIUHjXfgOUTARQbL15nJTVRzDGUiT/65R3c0eSm9lIENsYXJr ZSA8amNsYXJrZUBjaXNjby5jb20+wl8EExECABcFAjyDqGQFCwcKAwQDFQMCAxYCAQIXgAAS CRDN7TXCWm4C3wdlR1BHAAEB5KkAn0kBda/9+uF6RfnDSFS7RExUU9DqAJ4knRckYiSASteC K03QVtEiXblL287ATQQ6NXCeEAQAhIURlK17jmIMdMIuScFU6xK+jkKgVVFrjlRH5vLV2spp jH/uQ57MMGuOcs7PckXCnPjBV8Tm32Tuw+fCyrbc2gt0ouiT/5WWj0EMeAfWew1zBXX2okGf LqS6gucVDS6tcEFN6PmJEmX+tWDcmiqx/xXiSfMVYiLMdlK+YDkMDDsAAwUD/3BWOyfdnBGH Kv28zx+5wq/2vhYnUYCAdVD2ZWCJizQTMbkcxEIKAwtAj6yqKq9ah82nt4VHl5ZejVe47jvR 2nXwJ5VQ9eITuTjTLDw+3qr9lN077VZ32hyb5ULJcW756j9Z3YB2FTANw6KHgChaSVVx9kYJ FlAggraU7mi39/wvwk4EGBECAAYFAjo1cJ4AEgkQze01wlpuAt8HZUdQRwABAQbdAJ9R8SzU Mluu9r93BMv6fAW9j6qTZgCfYcEAqOMJv+3Z+YxLiDtWcCY4Sfo= Organization: Cisco Message-ID: Date: Mon, 25 Jun 2018 15:45:42 -0400 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Macintosh; Intel Mac OS X 10.13; rv:52.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/52.8.0 MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: <6AF80451-1644-4B1B-A6DD-3A42D4EEFB7A@juniper.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Language: en-US Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Archived-At: Subject: Re: [netmod] yang-data-ext issues X-BeenThere: netmod@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.26 Precedence: list List-Id: NETMOD WG list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 25 Jun 2018 19:45:48 -0000 On 6/25/18 14:56, Kent Watsen wrote: > > The authors of yang-data-ext met today to discuss how to move this draft forward. After about an hour, we decided that the best course of action is to: > > * clarify RFC 8040 rc:yang-data for the zerotouch use case > - and update the zerotouch draft to use rc:yang-data > > * request this WG for the unadoption of this draft > - the notification-messages draft solution is TBD > > Can the working group, especially the chairs and the affected document authors (all CC-ed) please review this proposal? What about the ability to augment yang-data? The proposed instance data draft also makes use of yang-data-ext, and I have a use case to augment some of its MD. I realize this draft is not a WG item [yet], but I wonder what the co-authors thought around the fate of the augments work. Joe From nobody Mon Jun 25 15:46:19 2018 Return-Path: X-Original-To: netmod@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: netmod@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 57942130F01; Mon, 25 Jun 2018 15:46:17 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.701 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.701 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW=-0.7, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=juniper.net Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id Mf6F5rY5eBrq; Mon, 25 Jun 2018 15:46:15 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mx0a-00273201.pphosted.com (mx0a-00273201.pphosted.com [208.84.65.16]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 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(mail-bn3nam04lp0120.outbound.protection.outlook.com [216.32.180.120]) by mx0a-00273201.pphosted.com with ESMTP id 2ju5jd8bd4-1 (version=TLSv1.2 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-AES256-SHA384 bits=256 verify=NOT); Mon, 25 Jun 2018 15:46:13 -0700 Received: from BYAPR05MB4230.namprd05.prod.outlook.com (52.135.200.153) by BYAPR05MB3944.namprd05.prod.outlook.com (52.135.195.147) with Microsoft SMTP Server (version=TLS1_2, cipher=TLS_ECDHE_RSA_WITH_AES_256_GCM_SHA384) id 15.20.906.17; Mon, 25 Jun 2018 22:46:10 +0000 Received: from BYAPR05MB4230.namprd05.prod.outlook.com ([fe80::959d:9fbe:90e4:3cc]) by BYAPR05MB4230.namprd05.prod.outlook.com ([fe80::959d:9fbe:90e4:3cc%4]) with mapi id 15.20.0906.018; Mon, 25 Jun 2018 22:46:10 +0000 From: Kent Watsen To: Joe Clarke , "netmod@ietf.org" CC: "netmod-chairs@ietf.org" , "draft-ietf-netconf-restconf@ietf.org" , "draft-ietf-netconf-zerotouch@ietf.org" , "draft-ietf-netconf-notification-messages@ietf.org" Thread-Topic: [netmod] yang-data-ext issues Thread-Index: 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Re: [netmod] Fwd: New Version Notification for draft-lengyel-netmod-yang-instance-data-01.txt X-BeenThere: netmod@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.26 Precedence: list List-Id: NETMOD WG list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 26 Jun 2018 11:59:00 -0000

Thanks for the comments and support. See answers below.
Balazs

On 6/13/2018 4:40 PM, Robert Wilton wrote:

Hi,

I would support this draft (if/when a call for adoption is made).

A few comments from a quick review :

1) I think that it would be useful to allow a file to contain multiple "instance data sets".  I could easily imagine that multiple different blocks of instance data may need to be provided and allowing these to be carried within a single file seems helpful.

BALAZS: We allow multiple YANG modules in a file, but I have never seen it used. Actually my model/tool designers asked me to prohibit multiple YANG modules (YAMs) in one file at least within Ericsson. So if the group decides so it can be allowed, however I think it is not a good idea.

2) I wonder whether these instance-data blocks could be used to hold examples in drafts/RFCs.  It would be nice if the examples could be automatically extracted and validated.  Possibly this draft could help with this, although I appreciate it is not its main focus.

BALAZS: It could be easily added. All we need is a pair of tags like <CODE BEGINS> we could call it <INSTANCE DATA BEGINS> <INSTANCE DATA ENDS>
After that we need to create the tools to extract and validate the instance data.

3) Possibly a comment should be made about whitespace, although I think that it is fairly obvious how whitespace would be handled, i.e. as defined by the encoding.

BALAZS: OK. How about:
Leading and trailing whitespace before and after the actual value MUST NOT be present for data based on types string or binary, but MAY be present for data based on integer types, decimal64, boolean,  enumeration, bits, identityref, instance-identifier. For leafrefs leading or trailing whitespace MAY or MUST NOT be present based on the referenced data type.  For data based on a union type leading or trailing whitespace MUST NOT be present if it is not allowed for any of the member types. 

4) "YANG instance data files SHOULD be used to provide design time information about server capabilities." sounds quite strong.  I think that this should either be a MAY, or the sentence should be predicated.  E.g . "If the server provides design time information about server capabilities then YANG instance data files SHOULD be used to allow them to be easily read and consumed by clients"

BALAZS: OK.  I like your text.

5) I'm wondering whether there needs to be some sort of identifier about what type data is held.  E.g. does it represent data that can be consumed as part of one of the configuration datastores, or does it represent the equivalent of operational state, or is it data for an RPC, etc.
BALAZS: For config=false data that's trivial.
For config=true data I don't see a use-case for providing operational state data.  IMHO  If we just say that config=true data can be loaded into the running/candidate datastore that is enough.  We had a similar debate with Jurgen (?) but I still do not see the use case. Maybe if there will be dynamic datastores it would be more meaningful. If you see a use-case that needs this please describe it.
6) If this data is to be stored in a file, should it state that it must be stored as UTF-8 character encoding?
BALAZS: Good idea. Maybe a more general statement like:
Instance data MUST follow the XML and JSON encoding rules defined in RFC7950 and 7951. Data MUST be present in canonical form or where that is not defined in lexical representation.
It is more then just UTF-8. All stuff about encoding the different statements and types also applies.

7) It might want to include a semantic version number for an instance-data-set, depending on whether the YANG versioning discussions ends up.
BALAZS: Yes I would like to. However I am not exactly clear on what does backwards compatibility mean for instance data.
Data MAY NOT be removed or changed only added.  ???
Who would use the semver numbers ???

Thanks,
Rob


On 13/06/2018 15:06, Balazs Lengyel wrote:

Hello,

I submitted a new version of the yang-instance-data draft updated with comments from the last IETF and others. I would like to get this adopted as a workgroup item. Please review it and if you like it please indicate that you support it as a workgroup item.

Changes:
   o  Redefined using yang-data-ext
   o  Moved meta data into ordinary leafs/leaf-lists
   o  Corrections, clarifications

regards Balazs


-------- Forwarded Message --------
Subject: New Version Notification for draft-lengyel-netmod-yang-instance-data-01.txt
Date: Wed, 13 Jun 2018 06:47:16 -0700
From: internet-drafts@ietf.org
To: Benoit Claise <bclaise@cisco.com>, Balazs Lengyel <balazs.lengyel@ericsson.com> 


A new version of I-D, draft-lengyel-netmod-yang-instance-data-01.txt
has been successfully submitted by Balazs Lengyel and posted to the
IETF repository.

Name:		draft-lengyel-netmod-yang-instance-data
Revision:	01
Title:		YANG Instance Data Files and their use for Documenting Server Capabilities
Document date:	2018-06-13
Group:		Individual Submission
Pages:		10
URL:            https://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-lengyel-netmod-yang-instance-data-01.txt
Status:         https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-lengyel-netmod-yang-instance-data/
Htmlized:       https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-lengyel-netmod-yang-instance-data-01
Htmlized:       https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/html/draft-lengyel-netmod-yang-instance-data
Diff:           https://www.ietf.org/rfcdiff?url2=draft-lengyel-netmod-yang-instance-data-01

Abstract:
   This document specifies a standard file format for YANG instance
   data, that is data that could be stored in a datastore and whose
   syntax and semantics is defined by YANG models.  Instance data files
   can be used to provide information that is defined in design time.
   There is a need to document Server capabilities (which are often
   specified in design time), which should be done using instance data
   files.

                                                                                  


Please note that it may take a couple of minutes from the time of submission
until the htmlized version and diff are available at tools.ietf.org.

The IETF Secretariat


-- 
Balazs Lengyel                       Ericsson Hungary Ltd.
Senior Specialist
Mobile: +36-70-330-7909              email: Balazs.Lengyel@ericsson.com 



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-- 
Balazs Lengyel                       Ericsson Hungary Ltd.
Senior Specialist
Mobile: +36-70-330-7909              email: Balazs.Lengyel@ericsson.com
From nobody Tue Jun 26 05:12:04 2018 Return-Path: X-Original-To: netmod@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: netmod@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id A2473130DCD for ; Tue, 26 Jun 2018 05:12:01 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.899 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.899 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 6nMAULHpEh-i for ; Tue, 26 Jun 2018 05:11:59 -0700 (PDT) Received: from anna.localdomain (anna.eecs.jacobs-university.de [IPv6:2001:638:709:5::7]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id B09C8130DC2 for ; Tue, 26 Jun 2018 05:11:58 -0700 (PDT) Received: by anna.localdomain (Postfix, from userid 501) id 8711122B3C2C; Tue, 26 Jun 2018 14:11:56 +0200 (CEST) Date: Tue, 26 Jun 2018 14:11:56 +0200 From: Juergen Schoenwaelder To: Balazs Lengyel Cc: Robert Wilton , "netmod@ietf.org" Message-ID: <20180626121156.fq5ioq2gh5sy3v7n@anna.jacobs.jacobs-university.de> Reply-To: Juergen Schoenwaelder Mail-Followup-To: Balazs Lengyel , Robert Wilton , "netmod@ietf.org" References: <152889763632.15168.12247537431295038165.idtracker@ietfa.amsl.com> <75383a97-d08b-b202-70a6-eab064963af8@ericsson.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: User-Agent: NeoMutt/20180622 Archived-At: Subject: Re: [netmod] Fwd: New Version Notification for draft-lengyel-netmod-yang-instance-data-01.txt X-BeenThere: netmod@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.26 Precedence: list List-Id: NETMOD WG list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 26 Jun 2018 12:12:02 -0000 On Tue, Jun 26, 2018 at 01:58:44PM +0200, Balazs Lengyel wrote: > Thanks for the comments and support. See answers below. > Balazs > > On 6/13/2018 4:40 PM, Robert Wilton wrote: > > Hi, > > I would support this draft (if/when a call for adoption is made). > > A few comments from a quick review : > > 1) I think that it would be useful to allow a file to contain multiple > "instance data sets". I could easily imagine that multiple different > blocks of instance data may need to be provided and allowing these to be > carried within a single file seems helpful. > > BALAZS: We allow multiple YANG modules in a file, but I have never seen it > used. Actually my model/tool designers asked me to prohibit multiple YANG > modules (YAMs) in one file at least within Ericsson. So if the group > decides so it can be allowed, however I think it is not a good idea. What exactly is "multiple YANG modules in a file"? I am confused and you may be talking past each other. > 2) I wonder whether these instance-data blocks could be used to hold > examples in drafts/RFCs. It would be nice if the examples could be > automatically extracted and validated. Possibly this draft could help > with this, although I appreciate it is not its main focus. > > BALAZS: It could be easily added. All we need is a pair of tags like BEGINS> we could call it > After that we need to create the tools to extract and validate the > instance data. Why is instance data node code? Why do we need new tags? The tags are there to extract 'stuff' - what 'stuff' is should be clear from 'stuff'. (RFC 7950 uses CODE BEGINS for yang.abnf for example.) > 3) Possibly a comment should be made about whitespace, although I think > that it is fairly obvious how whitespace would be handled, i.e. as > defined by the encoding. > > BALAZS: OK. How about: > Leading and trailing whitespace before and after the actual value MUST NOT > be present for data based on types string or binary, but MAY be present > for data based on integer types, decimal64, boolean, enumeration, bits, > identityref, instance-identifier. For leafrefs leading or trailing > whitespace MAY or MUST NOT be present based on the referenced data type. > For data based on a union type leading or trailing whitespace MUST NOT be > present if it is not allowed for any of the member types. Why do we need new rules? Should the artwork wrapping solution not be good enough? > 5) I'm wondering whether there needs to be some sort of identifier about > what type data is held. E.g. does it represent data that can be > consumed as part of one of the configuration datastores, or does it > represent the equivalent of operational state, or is it data for an RPC, > etc. > > BALAZS: For config=false data that's trivial. > For config=true data I don't see a use-case for providing operational > state data. IMHO If we just say that config=true data can be loaded into > the running/candidate datastore that is enough. We had a similar debate > with Jurgen (?) but I still do not see the use case. Maybe if there will > be dynamic datastores it would be more meaningful. If you see a use-case > that needs this please describe it. Trivial use case is an example that shows how content of and can differ. I see use cases where you snapshot the status of and for post mortem analysis. It is easy to come up with use cases. We have datastores, so we should be clear to which datastore instance data relates. > 6) If this data is to be stored in a file, should it state that it must > be stored as UTF-8 character encoding? > > BALAZS: Good idea. Maybe a more general statement like: > Instance data MUST follow the XML and JSON encoding rules defined in > RFC7950 and 7951. Data MUST be present in canonical form or where that is > not defined in lexical representation. > It is more then just UTF-8. All stuff about encoding the different > statements and types also applies. So we do not need all the rules you mentioned above concerning white space etc. > 7) It might want to include a semantic version number for an > instance-data-set, depending on whether the YANG versioning discussions > ends up. > > BALAZS: Yes I would like to. However I am not exactly clear on what does > backwards compatibility mean for instance data. > Data MAY NOT be removed or changed only added. ??? > Who would use the semver numbers ??? What does the version number mean? Every change of instance data in an instacne-data-set leads to a new version number? What is a bug fix in this sense? What is a non-backwards compatible change of instance data? I am left a bit puzzled. /js -- Juergen Schoenwaelder Jacobs University Bremen gGmbH Phone: +49 421 200 3587 Campus Ring 1 | 28759 Bremen | Germany Fax: +49 421 200 3103 From nobody Tue Jun 26 06:37:38 2018 Return-Path: X-Original-To: netmod@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: netmod@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id A89BF13103B for ; Tue, 26 Jun 2018 06:37:36 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -14.511 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-14.511 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_HI=-5, SPF_PASS=-0.001, T_DKIMWL_WL_MED=-0.01, USER_IN_DEF_DKIM_WL=-7.5] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (1024-bit key) header.d=cisco.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id ac7C3xNFQVBU for ; Tue, 26 Jun 2018 06:37:34 -0700 (PDT) Received: from aer-iport-2.cisco.com (aer-iport-2.cisco.com [173.38.203.52]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher DHE-RSA-SEED-SHA (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 0B872131030 for ; Tue, 26 Jun 2018 06:37:33 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/simple; d=cisco.com; i=@cisco.com; l=7073; q=dns/txt; s=iport; t=1530020254; x=1531229854; h=subject:to:references:from:message-id:date:mime-version: in-reply-to:content-transfer-encoding; bh=oT6LcezgPhNB7Ia85zyAAnxTz14K5E6IfDUw4Ym5U/E=; b=GwQW+Y/qSxZchD72rtG2wawxMZdFi4v9Sd5VqusSXs0ZSdKQwmcL5zH9 WlP1SJuVwYFXeZyuzt/Mm+Sm0zOmkpE9zU3+f0GGBzfLbqrE3tJhcjnrR urTdaNenrcW21BFvJYYtfrTgQXB7ie2k4PfhEDYuGSdrBzHNuJgNgIeXW A=; X-IronPort-Anti-Spam-Filtered: true X-IronPort-Anti-Spam-Result: =?us-ascii?q?A0B8AQBaQTJb/xbLJq1cGQEBAQEBAQE?= =?us-ascii?q?BAQEBAQcBAQEBAYMfCwEBAQGBcBKEIYhkjUEqlSmBZguEbAKDNDgUAQIBAQE?= =?us-ascii?q?BAQECbSiFNgEBAQMBHQYPAQUvEBILGAICJgICVwYBDAgBAReDCoF4CKx8ghy?= =?us-ascii?q?EW4NrgRqBC4k4P4EPJ4JohGKDGYJVAoxHjGoJjw4GgUCEB4JGhT2MJYVMgVg?= =?us-ascii?q?hgVIzGggbFTuCaoJKaQEIjRU+jWsrghsBAQ?= X-IronPort-AV: E=Sophos;i="5.51,274,1526342400"; d="scan'208";a="4785372" Received: from aer-iport-nat.cisco.com (HELO aer-core-2.cisco.com) ([173.38.203.22]) by aer-iport-2.cisco.com with ESMTP/TLS/DHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384; 26 Jun 2018 13:37:22 +0000 Received: from [10.63.23.83] (dhcp-ensft1-uk-vla370-10-63-23-83.cisco.com [10.63.23.83]) by aer-core-2.cisco.com (8.14.5/8.14.5) with ESMTP id w5QDbLQm001643; Tue, 26 Jun 2018 13:37:21 GMT To: Balazs Lengyel , "netmod@ietf.org" References: <152889763632.15168.12247537431295038165.idtracker@ietfa.amsl.com> <75383a97-d08b-b202-70a6-eab064963af8@ericsson.com> <20180626121156.fq5ioq2gh5sy3v7n@anna.jacobs.jacobs-university.de> From: Robert Wilton Message-ID: Date: Tue, 26 Jun 2018 14:37:21 +0100 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 10.0; WOW64; rv:52.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/52.8.0 MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: <20180626121156.fq5ioq2gh5sy3v7n@anna.jacobs.jacobs-university.de> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Content-Language: en-US Archived-At: Subject: Re: [netmod] Fwd: New Version Notification for draft-lengyel-netmod-yang-instance-data-01.txt X-BeenThere: netmod@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.26 Precedence: list List-Id: NETMOD WG list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 26 Jun 2018 13:37:37 -0000 On 26/06/2018 13:11, Juergen Schoenwaelder wrote: > On Tue, Jun 26, 2018 at 01:58:44PM +0200, Balazs Lengyel wrote: >> Thanks for the comments and support. See answers below. >> Balazs >> >> On 6/13/2018 4:40 PM, Robert Wilton wrote: >> >> Hi, >> >> I would support this draft (if/when a call for adoption is made). >> >> A few comments from a quick review : >> >> 1) I think that it would be useful to allow a file to contain multiple >> "instance data sets". I could easily imagine that multiple different >> blocks of instance data may need to be provided and allowing these to be >> carried within a single file seems helpful. >> >> BALAZS: We allow multiple YANG modules in a file, but I have never seen it >> used. Actually my model/tool designers asked me to prohibit multiple YANG >> modules (YAMs) in one file at least within Ericsson. So if the group >> decides so it can be allowed, however I think it is not a good idea. > What exactly is "multiple YANG modules in a file"? I am confused and > you may be talking past each other. An example could be wanting to provide a single file that holds the capabilities for all different linecard types for a particular type of device, rather than providing them as a set of files. Of course, this could also be achieved using a meta YANG module (e.g. the top level module could have a list of linecard types, which each linecard type contains the capabilities for that linecard).  Whether this make sense probably depends on the underlying YANG modules and how they are constructed. Of just using separate files, in which case the meta information can just be managed into the file name, and the file can be provided as a zip. > >> 2) I wonder whether these instance-data blocks could be used to hold >> examples in drafts/RFCs. It would be nice if the examples could be >> automatically extracted and validated. Possibly this draft could help >> with this, although I appreciate it is not its main focus. >> >> BALAZS: It could be easily added. All we need is a pair of tags like > BEGINS> we could call it >> After that we need to create the tools to extract and validate the >> instance data. > Why is instance data node code? Why do we need new tags? The tags are > there to extract 'stuff' - what 'stuff' is should be clear from > 'stuff'. (RFC 7950 uses CODE BEGINS for yang.abnf for example.) > >> 3) Possibly a comment should be made about whitespace, although I think >> that it is fairly obvious how whitespace would be handled, i.e. as >> defined by the encoding. >> >> BALAZS: OK. How about: >> Leading and trailing whitespace before and after the actual value MUST NOT >> be present for data based on types string or binary, but MAY be present >> for data based on integer types, decimal64, boolean, enumeration, bits, >> identityref, instance-identifier. For leafrefs leading or trailing >> whitespace MAY or MUST NOT be present based on the referenced data type. >> For data based on a union type leading or trailing whitespace MUST NOT be >> present if it is not allowed for any of the member types. > Why do we need new rules? Should the artwork wrapping solution not be good > enough? If the draft has text about it following the encoding (e.g. as proposed below, then this may not be required at all), although it be useful to explicitly highlight that whitespace is also coded by the encoding.  It seems like something that could possibly be overlooked otherwise. > >> 5) I'm wondering whether there needs to be some sort of identifier about >> what type data is held. E.g. does it represent data that can be >> consumed as part of one of the configuration datastores, or does it >> represent the equivalent of operational state, or is it data for an RPC, >> etc. >> >> BALAZS: For config=false data that's trivial. >> For config=true data I don't see a use-case for providing operational >> state data. IMHO If we just say that config=true data can be loaded into >> the running/candidate datastore that is enough. We had a similar debate >> with Jurgen (?) but I still do not see the use case. Maybe if there will >> be dynamic datastores it would be more meaningful. If you see a use-case >> that needs this please describe it. > Trivial use case is an example that shows how content of and > can differ. I see use cases where you snapshot the > status of and for post mortem analysis. It is > easy to come up with use cases. We have datastores, so we should be > clear to which datastore instance data relates. > >> 6) If this data is to be stored in a file, should it state that it must >> be stored as UTF-8 character encoding? >> >> BALAZS: Good idea. Maybe a more general statement like: >> Instance data MUST follow the XML and JSON encoding rules defined in >> RFC7950 and 7951. Data MUST be present in canonical form or where that is >> not defined in lexical representation. >> It is more then just UTF-8. All stuff about encoding the different >> statements and types also applies. > So we do not need all the rules you mentioned above concerning white space > etc. Agreed, although I still think that explicitly mentioning whitespace might be helpful.  I'm not sure that I care too strongly on this point. E.g. Instance data MUST follow the XML and JSON encoding rules defined in RFC7950 and 7951. Data MUST be present in canonical form or where that is not defined in lexical representation. Whitespace must also be handled as defined by the encoding rules. > >> 7) It might want to include a semantic version number for an >> instance-data-set, depending on whether the YANG versioning discussions >> ends up. >> >> BALAZS: Yes I would like to. However I am not exactly clear on what does >> backwards compatibility mean for instance data. >> Data MAY NOT be removed or changed only added. ??? >> Who would use the semver numbers ??? > What does the version number mean? Every change of instance data in an > instacne-data-set leads to a new version number? What is a bug fix in > this sense? What is a non-backwards compatible change of instance data? > I am left a bit puzzled. Probably I don't mean semantic version.  But often files have versioning, or revision, information associated with them.  This can be muxed into the file name/path, but it also seems like potentially useful metadata, and being able to handle this generically in a consistent way might be beneficial. As an example, perhaps the capability information related to S/W release 1.2.4, etc. Thanks, Rob > > /js > From nobody Tue Jun 26 06:46:41 2018 Return-Path: X-Original-To: netmod@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: netmod@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 42ACE131047 for ; Tue, 26 Jun 2018 06:46:37 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -3.586 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-3.586 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, MIME_HTML_ONLY=0.723, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-2.3, SPF_PASS=-0.001, T_DKIMWL_WL_HIGH=-0.01, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=unavailable autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (1024-bit key) header.d=ericsson.com header.b=ePetm9P0; dkim=pass (1024-bit key) header.d=ericsson.com header.b=dCKtlJ6R Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 6oR2QRQ2ez04 for ; 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On 6/13/2018 5:26 PM, Juergen Schoenwaelder wrote:
On Wed, Jun 13, 2018 at 03:40:31PM +0100, Robert Wilton wrote:

5) I'm wondering whether there needs to be some sort of identifier about
what type data is held.  E.g. does it represent data that can be consumed as
part of one of the configuration datastores, or does it represent the
equivalent of operational state, or is it data for an RPC, etc.


Yes. I think I requested this before. There should be a way to indicate
which datastore instance-data belongs to.
BALAZS:
I am not against this proposal, I just don't see the use case for it.
At this point I only see 2 use cases:
  1. Documentation of config=false data. For this the data store s always operational.
  2. Initial configuration of config=true data. For this the datastore would be one of candidate or running. It is often not possible to know which.  Anyway all we want to sy, that this is data that can be(should be)  loaded into the running directly or via candidate.
I do not see the use case for defining config=true operational-state data?
Who would use it?
In which case would you handle data differently depending on the the datastore for config=true data?
Maybe if there will be dynamic datastores it will be more meaningful.  Could you please describe the use case you are thinking about!
 

I also do not understand why we have instance-data-set if the set is
limited to exactly one instance-data element. Perhaps room to find a
better name for the outer container or the anyxml (perhaps change
instance-data-set to instance-data and instance-data to simply data).
Or alternatively allow multiple instance-data portions but then meta
data would need to be associated with instance-data and not
instance-data-set, so we would actually need another layer.
BALAZS: The anydata statement could be called data instead of instance-data. I used instance-data because its more specific, and I like that, but I can change it.
I like to keep the file and the data-set separate. In my mind these are two different concepts just as a YANG module and a YANG file are separate. I use the term set because internally it can contain a multiple related pieces of data.

Also, given that this is supposed to be serialized in XML (or JSON I
assume), would it make sense to include an XML preamble in the
examples, i.e.,
BALAZS: OK, XML preamble will be added.

<?xml version="1.0" encoding="UTF-8"?>
<instance-data xmlns=...>
  <name>...</name>
  <datastore>ds:operational</datastore>
  <data>
    <yang-library xmlns="urn:ietf:params:xml:ns:yang:ietf-yang-library">
    </yang-library>
  </data>
</instance-data>

/js



-- 
Balazs Lengyel                       Ericsson Hungary Ltd.
Senior Specialist
Mobile: +36-70-330-7909              email: Balazs.Lengyel@ericsson.com
From nobody Tue Jun 26 06:52:37 2018 Return-Path: X-Original-To: netmod@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: netmod@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 219CF13102E for ; Tue, 26 Jun 2018 06:52:36 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.899 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.899 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id pzNTvAenUzfn for ; Tue, 26 Jun 2018 06:52:34 -0700 (PDT) Received: from anna.localdomain (firewallix.jacobs-university.de [212.201.44.247]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id E3512131023 for ; Tue, 26 Jun 2018 06:52:33 -0700 (PDT) Received: by anna.localdomain (Postfix, from userid 501) id E573922B3E70; Tue, 26 Jun 2018 15:52:32 +0200 (CEST) Date: Tue, 26 Jun 2018 15:52:32 +0200 From: Juergen Schoenwaelder To: Robert Wilton Cc: Balazs Lengyel , "netmod@ietf.org" Message-ID: <20180626135232.cdlrbbideyackdfe@anna.jacobs.jacobs-university.de> Reply-To: Juergen Schoenwaelder Mail-Followup-To: Robert Wilton , Balazs Lengyel , "netmod@ietf.org" References: <152889763632.15168.12247537431295038165.idtracker@ietfa.amsl.com> <75383a97-d08b-b202-70a6-eab064963af8@ericsson.com> <20180626121156.fq5ioq2gh5sy3v7n@anna.jacobs.jacobs-university.de> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit In-Reply-To: User-Agent: NeoMutt/20180622 Archived-At: Subject: Re: [netmod] Fwd: New Version Notification for draft-lengyel-netmod-yang-instance-data-01.txt X-BeenThere: netmod@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.26 Precedence: list List-Id: NETMOD WG list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 26 Jun 2018 13:52:36 -0000 On Tue, Jun 26, 2018 at 02:37:21PM +0100, Robert Wilton wrote: > > > On 26/06/2018 13:11, Juergen Schoenwaelder wrote: > > On Tue, Jun 26, 2018 at 01:58:44PM +0200, Balazs Lengyel wrote: > > > Thanks for the comments and support. See answers below. > > > Balazs > > > > > > On 6/13/2018 4:40 PM, Robert Wilton wrote: > > > > > > Hi, > > > > > > I would support this draft (if/when a call for adoption is made). > > > > > > A few comments from a quick review : > > > > > > 1) I think that it would be useful to allow a file to contain multiple > > > "instance data sets". I could easily imagine that multiple different > > > blocks of instance data may need to be provided and allowing these to be > > > carried within a single file seems helpful. > > > > > > BALAZS: We allow multiple YANG modules in a file, but I have never seen it > > > used. Actually my model/tool designers asked me to prohibit multiple YANG > > > modules (YAMs) in one file at least within Ericsson. So if the group > > > decides so it can be allowed, however I think it is not a good idea. > > What exactly is "multiple YANG modules in a file"? I am confused and > > you may be talking past each other. > An example could be wanting to provide a single file that holds the > capabilities for all different linecard types for a particular type of > device, rather than providing them as a set of files. > > Of course, this could also be achieved using a meta YANG module (e.g. the > top level module could have a list of linecard types, which each linecard > type contains the capabilities for that linecard).  Whether this make sense > probably depends on the underlying YANG modules and how they are > constructed. > > Of just using separate files, in which case the meta information can just be > managed into the file name, and the file can be provided as a zip. > I am left puzzled. There is instance data (in a datastore) and you serialize (perhaps filtered) the instance data into a file. Instance data in general has data that conforms to multiple YANG modules, in particular also due to augments. I think we need to solve the general problem, not an isolated linecard problem. > Instance data MUST follow the XML and JSON encoding rules defined in > RFC7950 and 7951. Data MUST be present in canonical form or where that is > not defined in lexical representation. Whitespace must also be handled as > defined by the encoding rules. I thought the 2nd and 3rd sentence would be not needed but checking RFC 7951 I see no mentioning that values must be in canonical format. I guess this is an omission of RFC 7951 - perhaps I should open an errata. RFC 7950 says this clearly in section 9.1: When a server sends XML-encoded data, it MUST use the canonical form defined in this section. Looks like an omission in RFC 7951. > > > 7) It might want to include a semantic version number for an > > > instance-data-set, depending on whether the YANG versioning discussions > > > ends up. > > > > > > BALAZS: Yes I would like to. However I am not exactly clear on what does > > > backwards compatibility mean for instance data. > > > Data MAY NOT be removed or changed only added. ??? > > > Who would use the semver numbers ??? > > What does the version number mean? Every change of instance data in an > > instacne-data-set leads to a new version number? What is a bug fix in > > this sense? What is a non-backwards compatible change of instance data? > > I am left a bit puzzled. > Probably I don't mean semantic version.  But often files have versioning, or > revision, information associated with them.  This can be muxed into the file > name/path, but it also seems like potentially useful metadata, and being > able to handle this generically in a consistent way might be beneficial. > > As an example, perhaps the capability information related to S/W release > 1.2.4, etc. We need to separate a version number of the instance data from the a version number (or version context) that may be needed in order to understand what a YANG (module, path) tuple means if we move to a different YANG versioning scheme. The later I agree would be needed, the former I am less sure of - at least if we talk semantic version numbers. /js -- Juergen Schoenwaelder Jacobs University Bremen gGmbH Phone: +49 421 200 3587 Campus Ring 1 | 28759 Bremen | Germany Fax: +49 421 200 3103 From nobody Tue Jun 26 06:58:41 2018 Return-Path: X-Original-To: netmod@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: netmod@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id C1BD8130DE0 for ; Tue, 26 Jun 2018 06:58:38 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -3.586 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-3.586 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, MIME_HTML_ONLY=0.723, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-2.3, SPF_PASS=-0.001, T_DKIMWL_WL_HIGH=-0.01, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (1024-bit key) header.d=ericsson.com header.b=Hiar2ufl; 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Hello Lada,

I don't insist on using yang-data-ext, but I like it.  Isn't this the exact use case for it: defining yang structured data that will never be loaded into a datastore. In this case the structure of the instance-data-set fits. 

If I would remove the yd:yang-data instance-data-format  statement it would not affect the actual file content. It just serves as  an indication that this is not  a datastore definition.

regards Balazs


On 6/15/2018 9:41 AM, Ladislav Lhotka wrote:
Hi,

I support the adoption of this I-D as a workgroup item and my plan is to
implement it.

However, my suggestion is to avoid the use of yang-data-ext. It is
absolutely useless in this case and only complicates things that are
otherwise pretty trivial.

Lada

Balazs Lengyel <balazs.lengyel@ericsson.com> writes:


Hello, 

I submitted a new version of the yang-instance-data draft updated with comments from the last
IETF and others. I would like to get this adopted as a workgroup item. Please review it and if you
like it please indicate that you support it as a workgroup item.

Changes:
   o  Redefined using yang-data-ext
   o  Moved meta data into ordinary leafs/leaf-lists
   o  Corrections, clarifications

regards Balazs 

-------- Forwarded Message -------- 

 Subject:   New Version Notification for draft-lengyel-netmod-yang-instance-data-01.txt  
 Date:   Wed, 13 Jun 2018 06:47:16 -0700  
 From:   internet-drafts@ietf.org  
 To:   Benoit Claise <bclaise@cisco.com>, Balazs Lengyel  
   <balazs.lengyel@ericsson.com>  

A new version of I-D, draft-lengyel-netmod-yang-instance-data-01.txt
has been successfully submitted by Balazs Lengyel and posted to the
IETF repository.

Name:		draft-lengyel-netmod-yang-instance-data
Revision:	01
Title:		YANG Instance Data Files and their use for Documenting Server Capabilities
Document date:	2018-06-13
Group:		Individual Submission
Pages:		10
URL:            https://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-lengyel-netmod-yang-instance-data-01.txt
Status:         https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-lengyel-netmod-yang-instance-data/
Htmlized:       https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-lengyel-netmod-yang-instance-data-01
Htmlized:       https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/html/draft-lengyel-netmod-yang-instance-data
Diff:           https://www.ietf.org/rfcdiff?url2=draft-lengyel-netmod-yang-instance-data-01

Abstract:
   This document specifies a standard file format for YANG instance
   data, that is data that could be stored in a datastore and whose
   syntax and semantics is defined by YANG models.  Instance data files
   can be used to provide information that is defined in design time.
   There is a need to document Server capabilities (which are often
   specified in design time), which should be done using instance data
   files.

                                                                                  


Please note that it may take a couple of minutes from the time of submission
until the htmlized version and diff are available at tools.ietf.org.

The IETF Secretariat

-- 
Balazs Lengyel                       Ericsson Hungary Ltd.
Senior Specialist
Mobile: +36-70-330-7909              email: Balazs.Lengyel@ericsson.com 
_______________________________________________
netmod mailing list
netmod@ietf.org
https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/netmod


    

    

    
-- 
Balazs Lengyel                       Ericsson Hungary Ltd.
Senior Specialist
Mobile: +36-70-330-7909              email: Balazs.Lengyel@ericsson.com 


  



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Subject: Re: [netmod] Fwd: New Version Notification for draft-lengyel-netmod-yang-instance-data-01.txt
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Any hints what you would like to see in the server capabilities
      definition?

      Balazs

    

    

    
On 6/19/2018 2:38 AM, Alexander Clemm
      wrote:

    

    

      
Hi
          Balazs,
          

      
I
          think the problem that this addresses is valid and having an
          interoperable solution for this makes sense.  (The server
          capabilities is still underspecified, but is straightforward
          to add.)  So, I will be happy to support this.  

      
---
          Alex

      

    

    

    
-- 
Balazs Lengyel                       Ericsson Hungary Ltd.
Senior Specialist
Mobile: +36-70-330-7909              email: Balazs.Lengyel@ericsson.com 


  



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References: <152889763632.15168.12247537431295038165.idtracker@ietfa.amsl.com> <75383a97-d08b-b202-70a6-eab064963af8@ericsson.com> <20180619.171049.10615740932860483.mbj@tail-f.com>
From: Balazs Lengyel 
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Date: Tue, 26 Jun 2018 16:05:16 +0200
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Subject: Re: [netmod] Fwd: New Version Notification for draft-lengyel-netmod-yang-instance-data-01.txt
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Hello Martin,

    
IMHO it would be good to recommend as a general practice that
      YANG servers SHOULD document their capabilities using instance
      data. Even though "the
          set of server capabilities to be documented will be defined by
        other standards and specifications ..."   it
      would still be good to make the general recommendation to do this.

    
If the group thinks this general recommnedation is a bad idea, I
      think this chapter should be merged with 2.2 Use case 1.

    

    

    
On 6/19/2018 5:10 PM, Martin Bjorklund
      wrote:

    

    

      
Hi,

I think this useful work, and I support it.  However, I have some
comments on the current draft.  My main concern is that it mixes the
very useful specification of instance data with requirements on the
server.  Specifically, I think section 4 should be re-written to be an
example of what can be done.



/martin


Balazs Lengyel <balazs.lengyel@ericsson.com> wrote:


      

        
Hello,

I submitted a new version of the yang-instance-data draft updated with
comments from the last IETF and others. I would like to get this
adopted as a workgroup item. Please review it and if you like it
please indicate that you support it as a workgroup item.

Changes:
o Redefined using yang-data-ext
o Moved meta data into ordinary leafs/leaf-lists
o Corrections, clarifications

regards Balazs

-------- Forwarded Message --------

 Subject:  New Version Notification for
           draft-lengyel-netmod-yang-instance-data-01.txt
 Date:     Wed, 13 Jun 2018 06:47:16 -0700
 From:     internet-drafts@ietf.org
 To:       Benoit Claise <bclaise@cisco.com>, Balazs Lengyel
           <balazs.lengyel@ericsson.com>

A new version of I-D, draft-lengyel-netmod-yang-instance-data-01.txt
has been successfully submitted by Balazs Lengyel and posted to the
IETF repository.

Name:		draft-lengyel-netmod-yang-instance-data
Revision:	01
Title:		YANG Instance Data Files and their use for Documenting Server Capabilities
Document date:	2018-06-13
Group:		Individual Submission
Pages:		10
URL:            https://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-lengyel-netmod-yang-instance-data-01.txt
Status:         https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-lengyel-netmod-yang-instance-data/
Htmlized:       https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-lengyel-netmod-yang-instance-data-01
Htmlized:       https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/html/draft-lengyel-netmod-yang-instance-data
Diff:           https://www.ietf.org/rfcdiff?url2=draft-lengyel-netmod-yang-instance-data-01

Abstract:
   This document specifies a standard file format for YANG instance
   data, that is data that could be stored in a datastore and whose
   syntax and semantics is defined by YANG models.  Instance data files
   can be used to provide information that is defined in design time.
   There is a need to document Server capabilities (which are often
   specified in design time), which should be done using instance data
   files.




Please note that it may take a couple of minutes from the time of submission
until the htmlized version and diff are available at tools.ietf.org.

The IETF Secretariat

--
Balazs Lengyel                       Ericsson Hungary Ltd.
Senior Specialist
Mobile: +36-70-330-7909              email: Balazs.Lengyel@ericsson.com


      

      

    

    

    
-- 
Balazs Lengyel                       Ericsson Hungary Ltd.
Senior Specialist
Mobile: +36-70-330-7909              email: Balazs.Lengyel@ericsson.com 


  



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To: Balazs Lengyel , "netmod@ietf.org" 
References: <152889763632.15168.12247537431295038165.idtracker@ietfa.amsl.com> <75383a97-d08b-b202-70a6-eab064963af8@ericsson.com>   <20180626121156.fq5ioq2gh5sy3v7n@anna.jacobs.jacobs-university.de>  <20180626135232.cdlrbbideyackdfe@anna.jacobs.jacobs-university.de>
From: Robert Wilton 
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Date: Tue, 26 Jun 2018 15:07:16 +0100
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Subject: Re: [netmod] Fwd: New Version Notification for draft-lengyel-netmod-yang-instance-data-01.txt
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On 26/06/2018 14:52, Juergen Schoenwaelder wrote:
> On Tue, Jun 26, 2018 at 02:37:21PM +0100, Robert Wilton wrote:
>>
>> On 26/06/2018 13:11, Juergen Schoenwaelder wrote:
>>> On Tue, Jun 26, 2018 at 01:58:44PM +0200, Balazs Lengyel wrote:
>>>>      Thanks for the comments and support. See answers below.
>>>>      Balazs
>>>>
>>>>      On 6/13/2018 4:40 PM, Robert Wilton wrote:
>>>>
>>>>        Hi,
>>>>
>>>>        I would support this draft (if/when a call for adoption is made).
>>>>
>>>>        A few comments from a quick review :
>>>>
>>>>        1) I think that it would be useful to allow a file to contain multiple
>>>>        "instance data sets".  I could easily imagine that multiple different
>>>>        blocks of instance data may need to be provided and allowing these to be
>>>>        carried within a single file seems helpful.
>>>>
>>>>      BALAZS: We allow multiple YANG modules in a file, but I have never seen it
>>>>      used. Actually my model/tool designers asked me to prohibit multiple YANG
>>>>      modules (YAMs) in one file at least within Ericsson. So if the group
>>>>      decides so it can be allowed, however I think it is not a good idea.
>>> What exactly is "multiple YANG modules in a file"? I am confused and
>>> you may be talking past each other.
>> An example could be wanting to provide a single file that holds the
>> capabilities for all different linecard types for a particular type of
>> device, rather than providing them as a set of files.
>>
>> Of course, this could also be achieved using a meta YANG module (e.g. the
>> top level module could have a list of linecard types, which each linecard
>> type contains the capabilities for that linecard).  Whether this make sense
>> probably depends on the underlying YANG modules and how they are
>> constructed.
>>
>> Of just using separate files, in which case the meta information can just be
>> managed into the file name, and the file can be provided as a zip.
>>
> I am left puzzled. There is instance data (in a datastore) and you
> serialize (perhaps filtered) the instance data into a file. Instance
> data in general has data that conforms to multiple YANG modules, in
> particular also due to augments. I think we need to solve the general
> problem, not an isolated linecard problem.
OK, so I wasn't assuming that instance data necessarily corresponds to 
instance data coming from a datastore (or an entire datastore). I was 
thinking that it can be any data that has a well defined YANG schema 
associated with it.  E.g. perhaps it could use to represent the YANG 
data sent or received in a YANG encoded RPC.


>
>>     Instance data MUST follow the XML and JSON encoding rules defined in
>>     RFC7950 and 7951.  Data MUST be present in canonical form or where that is
>>     not defined in lexical representation.  Whitespace must also be handled as
>>     defined by the encoding rules.
> I thought the 2nd and 3rd sentence would be not needed but checking
> RFC 7951 I see no mentioning that values must be in canonical format.
> I guess this is an omission of RFC 7951 - perhaps I should open an
> errata. RFC 7950 says this clearly in section 9.1:
>
>     When a server sends XML-encoded data, it MUST use the canonical form
>     defined in this section.
>
> Looks like an omission in RFC 7951.
>
>>>>        7) It might want to include a semantic version number for an
>>>>        instance-data-set, depending on whether the YANG versioning discussions
>>>>        ends up.
>>>>
>>>>      BALAZS: Yes I would like to. However I am not exactly clear on what does
>>>>      backwards compatibility mean for instance data.
>>>>      Data MAY NOT be removed or changed only added.  ???
>>>>      Who would use the semver numbers ???
>>> What does the version number mean? Every change of instance data in an
>>> instacne-data-set leads to a new version number? What is a bug fix in
>>> this sense? What is a non-backwards compatible change of instance data?
>>> I am left a bit puzzled.
>> Probably I don't mean semantic version.  But often files have versioning, or
>> revision, information associated with them.  This can be muxed into the file
>> name/path, but it also seems like potentially useful metadata, and being
>> able to handle this generically in a consistent way might be beneficial.
>>
>> As an example, perhaps the capability information related to S/W release
>> 1.2.4, etc.
> We need to separate a version number of the instance data from the a
> version number (or version context) that may be needed in order to
> understand what a YANG (module, path) tuple means if we move to a
> different YANG versioning scheme. The later I agree would be needed,
> the former I am less sure of - at least if we talk semantic version
> numbers.
Yes, I agree with the need for the latter, that may entail listing the 
versions of the modules in the meta-data.

But what I was actually referring to was the former, and thinking more 
of it is just being a string field in the meta-data with a well defined 
name, that is optional to populate.  Actually, I see the current 
definition already has a revision with a date and description string.  
This is roughly along the lines of what I was thinking of for versioning 
(although I'm not sure why this should be a list rather than just a pair 
of leaves).

Thanks,
Rob

>
> /js
>


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Subject: Re: [netmod] New Version Notification for draft-lengyel-netmod-yang-instance-data-01.txt
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Hello Einar,

      I answered  most comments in other mails. But see one below!

      regards Balazs

    

    
On 6/25/2018 3:32 PM, Einar
      Nilsen-Nygaard (einarnn) wrote:

    

    

      
  • Server capabilities as mentioned by Alex;
        specifically, it’s not clear to me yet how the correct versions
        of the models used inside instance data are defined.
    • 
    
    
    BALAZS:  
    
    I do not want to make a strong connection between the
    instance-data-set and the individual model's revision/version.
    Obviously the same instance-data-set can be used with many module
    versions even if those versions are incompatible.  
    
    Without semver in the YANG Modules (YAMs) I see no formal solution
    at all. Connecting the instance-data-set to a strict revision-date
    of the YAM would be extremely tedious and require continuous
    updates.
    
    
    
    IMHO the problem is similar to the import-by-version in the
    module-update/versioning draft.  Maybe I can reuse that solution.
    E.g. Include a set of used YAMs and allowed semantic-versions as
    metadata under container
        instance-data-set.
    
    
    
    My proposal is to list this as an open issue and see what the
    versioning draft comes up with. Still I fear this might end up as a
    warning and a statement that it must be solved by other means.
    
    regards Balazs
    
    
    
    
    -- 
Balazs Lengyel                       Ericsson Hungary Ltd.
Senior Specialist
Mobile: +36-70-330-7909              email: Balazs.Lengyel@ericsson.com 

    
  



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    On 6/26/2018 2:11 PM, Juergen
      Schoenwaelder wrote:
    
    
    
    
    
      
    On Tue, Jun 26, 2018 at 01:58:44PM +0200, Balazs Lengyel wrote:

    
      
    
        
       Thanks for the comments and support. See answers below.
   Balazs

   On 6/13/2018 4:40 PM, Robert Wilton wrote:

     Hi,

     I would support this draft (if/when a call for adoption is made).

     A few comments from a quick review :

     1) I think that it would be useful to allow a file to contain multiple
     "instance data sets".  I could easily imagine that multiple different
     blocks of instance data may need to be provided and allowing these to be
     carried within a single file seems helpful.

   BALAZS: We allow multiple YANG modules in a file, but I have never seen it
   used. Actually my model/tool designers asked me to prohibit multiple YANG
   modules (YAMs) in one file at least within Ericsson. So if the group
   decides so it can be allowed, however I think it is not a good idea.

    
      
    
      
    What exactly is "multiple YANG modules in a file"? I am confused and
you may be talking past each other.
    
    
    
    BALAZS:
      https://tools.ietf.org/html/rfc7950#section-5.2 states:
    
        
    
    YANG modules and submodules are typically stored in files, one
   "module" or "submodule" statement per file.

    
    To me this means it is allowed to have
      multiple module statements in a file, multiple YANG modules in a
      file. AM I wrong?
    
        
    
    
      
    

    
      
    
        
         2) I wonder whether these instance-data blocks could be used to hold
     examples in drafts/RFCs.  It would be nice if the examples could be
     automatically extracted and validated.  Possibly this draft could help
     with this, although I appreciate it is not its main focus.

   BALAZS: It could be easily added. All we need is a pair of tags like <CODE
   BEGINS> we could call it <INSTANCE DATA BEGINS> <INSTANCE DATA ENDS>
   After that we need to create the tools to extract and validate the
   instance data.

    
      
    
      
    Why is instance data node code? Why do we need new tags? The tags are
there to extract 'stuff' - what 'stuff' is should be clear from
'stuff'. (RFC 7950 uses CODE BEGINS for yang.abnf for example.)
    
    
    
    BALAZS: "stuff" in this case would be an
      instance-data-set formatted according to this draft and used as an
      example in some other draft/RFC. As I understand the use case:
      this could be extracted by some tool and validated against this
      draft for the format of the instance-data-set and validated
      against the YANG modules used by the instance data inside. See
      attachment as an example. However the use case came from Rob, so
      he might know better.
    
    
    
      
    

    
      
    
        
         3) Possibly a comment should be made about whitespace, although I think
     that it is fairly obvious how whitespace would be handled, i.e. as
     defined by the encoding.

   BALAZS: OK. How about:
   Leading and trailing whitespace before and after the actual value MUST NOT
   be present for data based on types string or binary, but MAY be present
   for data based on integer types, decimal64, boolean,  enumeration, bits,
   identityref, instance-identifier. For leafrefs leading or trailing
   whitespace MAY or MUST NOT be present based on the referenced data type.
   For data based on a union type leading or trailing whitespace MUST NOT be
   present if it is not allowed for any of the member types.

    
      
    
      
    Why do we need new rules? Should the artwork wrapping solution not be good
enough?
    
    
    
    BALAZS: Please explain. In the normal case an instance-data-set is a
    standalone instance-data-file that is not part of any artwork. Where
    can I see the artwork wrapping solution?
    
    I just wanted to be liberal, to make writing and reading easy, so I
    would allow both 
    
    <myleaf>23.3</myleaf>
    
    and
    
    <myleaf>
    
        23.3
    
      </myleaf>
    
    unless the data is of type string in which case the whitespace has
    an actual meaning.
    
    
    
      
    

    
      
    
        
         5) I'm wondering whether there needs to be some sort of identifier about
     what type data is held.  E.g. does it represent data that can be
     consumed as part of one of the configuration datastores, or does it
     represent the equivalent of operational state, or is it data for an RPC,
     etc.

   BALAZS: For config=false data that's trivial.
   For config=true data I don't see a use-case for providing operational
   state data.  IMHO  If we just say that config=true data can be loaded into
   the running/candidate datastore that is enough.  We had a similar debate
   with Jurgen (?) but I still do not see the use case. Maybe if there will
   be dynamic datastores it would be more meaningful. If you see a use-case
   that needs this please describe it.

    
      
    
      
    Trivial use case is an example that shows how content of <running> and
<operational> can differ. I see use cases where you snapshot the
status of <operational> and <running> for post mortem analysis. It is
easy to come up with use cases. We have datastores, so we should be
clear to which datastore instance data relates.


    
      
    
        
         6) If this data is to be stored in a file, should it state that it must
     be stored as UTF-8 character encoding?

   BALAZS: Good idea. Maybe a more general statement like:
   Instance data MUST follow the XML and JSON encoding rules defined in
   RFC7950 and 7951. Data MUST be present in canonical form or where that is
   not defined in lexical representation.
   It is more then just UTF-8. All stuff about encoding the different
   statements and types also applies.

    
      
    
      
    So we do not need all the rules you mentioned above concerning white space
etc.
    
    
    
    BALAZS: Maybe, please help here. If I have a leaf defined as an
    integer, is the following XML correct as a YANG based XML
    representation?
    
    <myleaf>
    
        23.3
    
      </myleaf>
    
    There is whitespace before and after the number. I did not find in
    RFC7950 whether this is allowed.
    
    
      
    
        
         7) It might want to include a semantic version number for an
     instance-data-set, depending on whether the YANG versioning discussions
     ends up.

   BALAZS: Yes I would like to. However I am not exactly clear on what does
   backwards compatibility mean for instance data.
   Data MAY NOT be removed or changed only added.  ???
   Who would use the semver numbers ???

    
      
    
      
    What does the version number mean? Every change of instance data in an
instacne-data-set leads to a new version number? What is a bug fix in
this sense? What is a non-backwards compatible change of instance data?
I am left a bit puzzled.
    
    
    
    BALAZS: Ask Rob, it was his idea :-) 
    
    But seriously we would first need to define what backwards
    compatibility means in this case and who would use the version
    number. I think its worth thinking about, but at this point I don't
    have a good use case or solution.
    
    
    
      
    
/js


    
    
    
    
    
    
    -- 
Balazs Lengyel                       Ericsson Hungary Ltd.
Senior Specialist
Mobile: +36-70-330-7909              email: Balazs.Lengyel@ericsson.com 

    
  


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From nobody Tue Jun 26 07:58:57 2018
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To: Balazs Lengyel 
Cc: Martin Bjorklund , netmod@ietf.org
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On Tue, Jun 26, 2018 at 04:05:16PM +0200, Balazs Lengyel wrote:
>    Hello Martin,
> 
>    IMHO it would be good to recommend as a general practice that YANG servers
>    SHOULD document their capabilities using instance data. Even though "the
>    set of server capabilities to be documented will be defined by other
>    standards and specifications ..."   it would still be good to make the
>    general recommendation to do this.
> 
>    If the group thinks this general recommnedation is a bad idea, I think
>    this chapter should be merged with 2.2 Use case 1.
>

Why would server capabilities not be more state data? Why would a
client have to fetch files (how?) to obtain knowledge about server
capabilities?

/js

-- 
Juergen Schoenwaelder           Jacobs University Bremen gGmbH
Phone: +49 421 200 3587         Campus Ring 1 | 28759 Bremen | Germany
Fax:   +49 421 200 3103         


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Subject: Re: [netmod] Fwd: New Version Notification for draft-lengyel-netmod-yang-instance-data-01.txt
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    On 6/26/2018 3:52 PM, Juergen
      Schoenwaelder wrote:
    
    
    
    
    
      
    On Tue, Jun 26, 2018 at 02:37:21PM +0100, Robert Wilton wrote:

    
      
    
        
    
On 26/06/2018 13:11, Juergen Schoenwaelder wrote:

    
        
    
          
    On Tue, Jun 26, 2018 at 01:58:44PM +0200, Balazs Lengyel wrote:

    
          
    
            
        Thanks for the comments and support. See answers below.
    Balazs

    On 6/13/2018 4:40 PM, Robert Wilton wrote:

      Hi,

      I would support this draft (if/when a call for adoption is made).

      A few comments from a quick review :

      1) I think that it would be useful to allow a file to contain multiple
      "instance data sets".  I could easily imagine that multiple different
      blocks of instance data may need to be provided and allowing these to be
      carried within a single file seems helpful.

    BALAZS: We allow multiple YANG modules in a file, but I have never seen it
    used. Actually my model/tool designers asked me to prohibit multiple YANG
    modules (YAMs) in one file at least within Ericsson. So if the group
    decides so it can be allowed, however I think it is not a good idea.

    
          
    
          
    What exactly is "multiple YANG modules in a file"? I am confused and
you may be talking past each other.

    
        
    
        
    An example could be wanting to provide a single file that holds the
capabilities for all different linecard types for a particular type of
device, rather than providing them as a set of files.

Of course, this could also be achieved using a meta YANG module (e.g. the
top level module could have a list of linecard types, which each linecard
type contains the capabilities for that linecard).  Whether this make sense
probably depends on the underlying YANG modules and how they are
constructed.

Of just using separate files, in which case the meta information can just be
managed into the file name, and the file can be provided as a zip.


    
      
    
      
    I am left puzzled. There is instance data (in a datastore) and you
serialize (perhaps filtered) the instance data into a file. Instance
data in general has data that conforms to multiple YANG modules, in
particular also due to augments. I think we need to solve the general
problem, not an isolated linecard problem.
    
    
    
    BALAZS: The point of this draft is to allow us
      to document instance-data in files. The full content of the
      datastore may be (will be) broken up into multiple
      instance-data-sets to allow different groups to work on each.  One
      group might be defining access control rules while the other will
      be defining documentation for the implemented modules
      (ietf-yang-library). Each will define its own instance-data-set.
      The question is: Shall we allow two of these sets to be in one
      file?
    
      Naturally you can put anything that follows the models into a
      single data-set, but if you decide to use multiple separate sets
      IMHO you should put each of these into a separate file (or maybe
      allow multiple sets in a single file).
    
        
    
    
      
    

    
      
    
        
       Instance data MUST follow the XML and JSON encoding rules defined in
   RFC7950 and 7951.  Data MUST be present in canonical form or where that is
   not defined in lexical representation.  Whitespace must also be handled as
   defined by the encoding rules.

    
      
    
      
    I thought the 2nd and 3rd sentence would be not needed but checking
RFC 7951 I see no mentioning that values must be in canonical format.
I guess this is an omission of RFC 7951 - perhaps I should open an
errata. RFC 7950 says this clearly in section 9.1:

   When a server sends XML-encoded data, it MUST use the canonical form
   defined in this section.

Looks like an omission in RFC 7951.
    
    
    
    BALAZS: I did not find anything about
      leading/trailing whitespace e.g. for an integer in RFC 7950
      either. Is it allowed/prohibited?
    
    
    
    
    -- 
Balazs Lengyel                       Ericsson Hungary Ltd.
Senior Specialist
Mobile: +36-70-330-7909              email: Balazs.Lengyel@ericsson.com 

    
  



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To: Robert Wilton , "netmod@ietf.org" 
References: <152889763632.15168.12247537431295038165.idtracker@ietfa.amsl.com> <75383a97-d08b-b202-70a6-eab064963af8@ericsson.com>   <20180626121156.fq5ioq2gh5sy3v7n@anna.jacobs.jacobs-university.de>  <20180626135232.cdlrbbideyackdfe@anna.jacobs.jacobs-university.de> 
From: Balazs Lengyel 
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Date: Tue, 26 Jun 2018 17:20:27 +0200
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Archived-At: 
Subject: Re: [netmod] Fwd: New Version Notification for draft-lengyel-netmod-yang-instance-data-01.txt
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    On 6/26/2018 4:07 PM, Robert Wilton
      wrote:
    
    
    
    
    
      
    
        
    
          
    
            
           7) It
              might want to include a semantic version number for an
              
    
                     instance-data-set, depending on whether the YANG
              versioning discussions
              
    
                     ends up.
              
    
              
    
                   BALAZS: Yes I would like to. However I am not exactly
              clear on what does
              
    
                   backwards compatibility mean for instance data.
              
    
                   Data MAY NOT be removed or changed only added.  ???
              
    
                   Who would use the semver numbers ???
              
    
            
    
            What does the version number mean? Every change of instance
            data in an
            
    
            instacne-data-set leads to a new version number? What is a
            bug fix in
            
    
            this sense? What is a non-backwards compatible change of
            instance data?
            
    
            I am left a bit puzzled.
            
    
          
    
          Probably I don't mean semantic version.  But often files have
          versioning, or
          
    
          revision, information associated with them.  This can be muxed
          into the file
          
    
          name/path, but it also seems like potentially useful metadata,
          and being
          
    
          able to handle this generically in a consistent way might be
          beneficial.
          
    
          
    
          As an example, perhaps the capability information related to
          S/W release
          
    
          1.2.4, etc.
          
    
        
    
        We need to separate a version number of the instance data from
        the a
        
    
        version number (or version context) that may be needed in order
        to
        
    
        understand what a YANG (module, path) tuple means if we move to
        a
        
    
        different YANG versioning scheme. The later I agree would be
        needed,
        
    
        the former I am less sure of - at least if we talk semantic
        version
        
    
        numbers.
        
    
      
    
      Yes, I agree with the need for the latter, that may entail listing
      the versions of the modules in the meta-data.
      
    
      
    
      But what I was actually referring to was the former, and thinking
      more of it is just being a string field in the meta-data with a
      well defined name, that is optional to populate.  Actually, I see
      the current definition already has a revision with a date and
      description string.  This is roughly along the lines of what I was
      thinking of for versioning (although I'm not sure why this should
      be a list rather than just a pair of leaves).
      
    
      
    
      Thanks,
      
    
      Rob
      
    
    
    
    BALAZS:  IMHO if we want to use versioning
      (semver) to version the instance-data-set itself we first need to
      understand what backwards compatibility means for an instance data
      set.
    
      
    
      Revision is a list because as you develop your instance-data-set
      you may go through multiple revisions. Just as you may have
      multiple revision statements in a YANG Module (YAM) the same way
      you may need multiple revision list entries in an instance data
      set; to keep history.
    
      
    
      (And following your advice, that is one very good reason to define
      the metadata about the set as normal YANG instead of
      yang-meta-data which does not have the concept of meta-data-array)
    
      regards Balazs
    
    
    -- 
Balazs Lengyel                       Ericsson Hungary Ltd.
Senior Specialist
Mobile: +36-70-330-7909              email: Balazs.Lengyel@ericsson.com 

    
  



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Message-ID: 
From: Ladislav Lhotka 
To: netmod@ietf.org
Date: Tue, 26 Jun 2018 17:30:15 +0200
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Subject: Re: [netmod] Fwd: New Version Notification for draft-lengyel-netmod-yang-instance-data-01.txt
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On Tue, 2018-06-26 at 15:58 +0200, Balazs Lengyel wrote:
> Hello Lada,
> I don't insist on using yang-data-ext, but I like it.  Isn't this the exact
> use case for it: defining yang structured data that will never be loaded into
> a datastore. In this case the structure of the instance-data-set fits.

On the other hand, if it's never loaded into a datastore, there is no need to
encapsulate the data and break tools that don't support yang-data-ext.

The encapsulation is really needed only if such data is mixed with "real" YANG
data node definitions in the same module - for example, if error-message schemas
are defined along with datastore contents, operations etc. 

> If I would remove the yd:yang-data instance-data-format  statement it would
> not affect the actual file content. It just serves as  an indication that this
> is not  a datastore definition.

A comment in the module should perfecty suffice. Andy argued with machine
readability, but I don't see how it can be useful here.

And, after all, if a server implementor for whatever weird reason decides to
implement this module, what's wrong on doing so?

Lada

> regards Balazs
> 
> On 6/15/2018 9:41 AM, Ladislav Lhotka wrote:
> > Hi,
> > 
> > I support the adoption of this I-D as a workgroup item and my plan is to
> > implement it.
> > 
> > However, my suggestion is to avoid the use of yang-data-ext. It is
> > absolutely useless in this case and only complicates things that are
> > otherwise pretty trivial.
> > 
> > Lada
> > 
> > Balazs Lengyel  writes:
> > 
> > > Hello, 
> > > 
> > > I submitted a new version of the yang-instance-data draft updated with
> > > comments from the last
> > > IETF and others. I would like to get this adopted as a workgroup item.
> > > Please review it and if you
> > > like it please indicate that you support it as a workgroup item.
> > > 
> > > Changes:
> > >    o  Redefined using yang-data-ext
> > >    o  Moved meta data into ordinary leafs/leaf-lists
> > >    o  Corrections, clarifications
> > > 
> > > regards Balazs 
> > > 
> > > -------- Forwarded Message -------- 
> > > 
> > >  Subject:   New Version Notification for draft-lengyel-netmod-yang-
> > > instance-data-01.txt  
> > >  Date:   Wed, 13 Jun 2018 06:47:16 -0700  
> > >  From:   internet-drafts@ietf.org  
> > >  To:   Benoit Claise , Balazs Lengyel  
> > >      
> > > 
> > > A new version of I-D, draft-lengyel-netmod-yang-instance-data-01.txt
> > > has been successfully submitted by Balazs Lengyel and posted to the
> > > IETF repository.
> > > 
> > > Name:		draft-lengyel-netmod-yang-instance-data
> > > Revision:	01
> > > Title:		YANG Instance Data Files and their use for
> > > Documenting Server Capabilities
> > > Document date:	2018-06-13
> > > Group:		Individual Submission
> > > Pages:		10
> > > URL:            https://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-lengyel-netmod-
> > > yang-instance-data-01.txt
> > > Status:         https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-lengyel-netmod-yang
> > > -instance-data/
> > > Htmlized:       https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-lengyel-netmod-yang-inst
> > > ance-data-01
> > > Htmlized:       https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/html/draft-lengyel-netmod
> > > -yang-instance-data
> > > Diff:           https://www.ietf.org/rfcdiff?url2=draft-lengyel-netmod-yan
> > > g-instance-data-01
> > > 
> > > Abstract:
> > >    This document specifies a standard file format for YANG instance
> > >    data, that is data that could be stored in a datastore and whose
> > >    syntax and semantics is defined by YANG models.  Instance data files
> > >    can be used to provide information that is defined in design time.
> > >    There is a need to document Server capabilities (which are often
> > >    specified in design time), which should be done using instance data
> > >    files.
> > > 
> > >                                                                           
> > >         
> > > 
> > > 
> > > Please note that it may take a couple of minutes from the time of
> > > submission
> > > until the htmlized version and diff are available at tools.ietf.org.
> > > 
> > > The IETF Secretariat
> > > 
> > > _______________________________________________
> > > netmod mailing list
> > > netmod@ietf.org
> > > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/netmod
-- 
Ladislav Lhotka
Head, CZ.NIC Labs
PGP Key ID: 0xB8F92B08A9F76C67


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To: Balazs Lengyel , "netmod@ietf.org" 
References: <152889763632.15168.12247537431295038165.idtracker@ietfa.amsl.com> <75383a97-d08b-b202-70a6-eab064963af8@ericsson.com>   <20180626121156.fq5ioq2gh5sy3v7n@anna.jacobs.jacobs-university.de>  <20180626135232.cdlrbbideyackdfe@anna.jacobs.jacobs-university.de>  <341ece85-4e00-dca4-580a-de234306c941@ericsson.com>
From: Robert Wilton 
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Date: Tue, 26 Jun 2018 16:31:17 +0100
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Subject: Re: [netmod] Fwd: New Version Notification for draft-lengyel-netmod-yang-instance-data-01.txt
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On 26/06/2018 16:20, Balazs Lengyel wrote:
>
>
>
> On 6/26/2018 4:07 PM, Robert Wilton wrote:
>>>>>>        7) It might want to include a semantic version number for an
>>>>>>        instance-data-set, depending on whether the YANG 
>>>>>> versioning discussions
>>>>>>        ends up.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>      BALAZS: Yes I would like to. However I am not exactly clear 
>>>>>> on what does
>>>>>>      backwards compatibility mean for instance data.
>>>>>>      Data MAY NOT be removed or changed only added.  ???
>>>>>>      Who would use the semver numbers ???
>>>>> What does the version number mean? Every change of instance data 
>>>>> in an
>>>>> instacne-data-set leads to a new version number? What is a bug fix in
>>>>> this sense? What is a non-backwards compatible change of instance 
>>>>> data?
>>>>> I am left a bit puzzled.
>>>> Probably I don't mean semantic version.  But often files have 
>>>> versioning, or
>>>> revision, information associated with them.  This can be muxed into 
>>>> the file
>>>> name/path, but it also seems like potentially useful metadata, and 
>>>> being
>>>> able to handle this generically in a consistent way might be 
>>>> beneficial.
>>>>
>>>> As an example, perhaps the capability information related to S/W 
>>>> release
>>>> 1.2.4, etc.
>>> We need to separate a version number of the instance data from the a
>>> version number (or version context) that may be needed in order to
>>> understand what a YANG (module, path) tuple means if we move to a
>>> different YANG versioning scheme. The later I agree would be needed,
>>> the former I am less sure of - at least if we talk semantic version
>>> numbers.
>> Yes, I agree with the need for the latter, that may entail listing 
>> the versions of the modules in the meta-data.
>>
>> But what I was actually referring to was the former, and thinking 
>> more of it is just being a string field in the meta-data with a well 
>> defined name, that is optional to populate.  Actually, I see the 
>> current definition already has a revision with a date and description 
>> string.  This is roughly along the lines of what I was thinking of 
>> for versioning (although I'm not sure why this should be a list 
>> rather than just a pair of leaves).
>>
>> Thanks,
>> Rob
> BALAZS:  IMHO if we want to use versioning (semver) to version the 
> instance-data-set itself we first need to understand what backwards 
> compatibility means for an instance data set.
So, I'm suggesting versioning, but not semver.  Just a string version 
field.  E.g. for XR I would just put in the XR release number "R4.5.1" 
or similar.

>
> Revision is a list because as you develop your instance-data-set you 
> may go through multiple revisions. Just as you may have multiple 
> revision statements in a YANG Module (YAM) the same way you may need 
> multiple revision list entries in an instance data set; to keep history.
But I don't see that every instance data document wants to necessarily 
publish that history, although of course it could just publish a list 
containing a single (the latest) entry.

Thanks,
Rob


>
> (And following your advice, that is one very good reason to define the 
> metadata about the set as normal YANG instead of yang-meta-data which 
> does not have the concept of meta-data-array)
> regards Balazs
> -- 
> Balazs Lengyel                       Ericsson Hungary Ltd.
> Senior Specialist
> Mobile: +36-70-330-7909              email:Balazs.Lengyel@ericsson.com  
> . 


--------------21DEF57A38B376AD2F86AB92
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    On 26/06/2018 16:20, Balazs Lengyel
      wrote:
    
    
    
    
    
      
      

    
      
    
      
    
      
    On 6/26/2018 4:07 PM, Robert Wilton
        wrote:
    
      
    
      
    
        
    
          
    
            
    
              
           7)
                It might want to include a semantic version number for
                an 
    
                       instance-data-set, depending on whether the YANG
                versioning discussions 
    
                       ends up. 
    
                
    
                     BALAZS: Yes I would like to. However I am not
                exactly clear on what does 
    
                     backwards compatibility mean for instance data. 
    
                     Data MAY NOT be removed or changed only added.  ???
                
    
                     Who would use the semver numbers ??? 
    
              
    
              What does the version number mean? Every change of
              instance data in an 
    
              instacne-data-set leads to a new version number? What is a
              bug fix in 
    
              this sense? What is a non-backwards compatible change of
              instance data? 
    
              I am left a bit puzzled. 
    
            
    
            Probably I don't mean semantic version.  But often files
            have versioning, or 
    
            revision, information associated with them.  This can be
            muxed into the file 
    
            name/path, but it also seems like potentially useful
            metadata, and being 
    
            able to handle this generically in a consistent way might be
            beneficial. 
    
            
    
            As an example, perhaps the capability information related to
            S/W release 
    
            1.2.4, etc. 
    
          
    
          We need to separate a version number of the instance data from
          the a 
    
          version number (or version context) that may be needed in
          order to 
    
          understand what a YANG (module, path) tuple means if we move
          to a 
    
          different YANG versioning scheme. The later I agree would be
          needed, 
    
          the former I am less sure of - at least if we talk semantic
          version 
    
          numbers. 
    
        
    
        Yes, I agree with the need for the latter, that may entail
        listing the versions of the modules in the meta-data. 
    
        
    
        But what I was actually referring to was the former, and
        thinking more of it is just being a string field in the
        meta-data with a well defined name, that is optional to
        populate.  Actually, I see the current definition already has a
        revision with a date and description string.  This is roughly
        along the lines of what I was thinking of for versioning
        (although I'm not sure why this should be a list rather than
        just a pair of leaves). 
    
        
    
        Thanks, 
    
        Rob 
    
      
    
      BALAZS:  IMHO if we want to use versioning
        (semver) to version the instance-data-set itself we first need
        to understand what backwards compatibility means for an instance
        data set.
    
      
    
    So, I'm suggesting versioning, but not semver.  Just a string
    version field.  E.g. for XR I would just put in the XR release
    number "R4.5.1" or similar.
    
    
    
    
     
    
        Revision is a list because as you develop your instance-data-set
        you may go through multiple revisions. Just as you may have
        multiple revision statements in a YANG Module (YAM) the same way
        you may need multiple revision list entries in an instance data
        set; to keep history.
    
      
    
    But I don't see that every instance data document wants to
    necessarily publish that history, although of course it could just
    publish a list containing a single (the latest) entry.
    
    
    
    Thanks,
    
    Rob
    
    
    
    
    
    
     
    
        (And following your advice, that is one very good reason to
        define the metadata about the set as normal YANG instead of
        yang-meta-data which does not have the concept of
        meta-data-array)
    
        regards Balazs
    
      
    -- 
Balazs Lengyel                       Ericsson Hungary Ltd.
Senior Specialist
Mobile: +36-70-330-7909              email: Balazs.Lengyel@ericsson.com 

    
      .
    
    
    
    
  


--------------21DEF57A38B376AD2F86AB92--


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To: Martin Bjorklund , 
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From: Balazs Lengyel 
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Subject: Re: [netmod] Fwd: New Version Notification for draft-lengyel-netmod-yang-instance-data-01.txt
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X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 26 Jun 2018 15:31:44 -0000

Hello Juergen,

Sorry the wording was misleading. I want these capabilities both as 
state data AND as instance-data-files, because
there is a need to know this information before you ever see the real 
network node. How about the following?

"YANG servers SHOULD document server capabilities that are available via Netconf/Restconf (as YANG defined data) also using instance-data-files."

regards Balazs


On 6/26/2018 4:58 PM, Juergen Schoenwaelder wrote:
> On Tue, Jun 26, 2018 at 04:05:16PM +0200, Balazs Lengyel wrote:
>>     Hello Martin,
>>
>>     IMHO it would be good to recommend as a general practice that YANG servers
>>     SHOULD document their capabilities using instance data. Even though "the
>>     set of server capabilities to be documented will be defined by other
>>     standards and specifications ..."   it would still be good to make the
>>     general recommendation to do this.
>>
>>     If the group thinks this general recommnedation is a bad idea, I think
>>     this chapter should be merged with 2.2 Use case 1.
>>
> Why would server capabilities not be more state data? Why would a
> client have to fetch files (how?) to obtain knowledge about server
> capabilities?
>
> /js
>

-- 
Balazs Lengyel                       Ericsson Hungary Ltd.
Senior Specialist
Mobile: +36-70-330-7909              email: Balazs.Lengyel@ericsson.com


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Subject: Re: [netmod] Fwd: New Version Notification for draft-lengyel-netmod-yang-instance-data-01.txt
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Hello Lada,

Maybe you are right. It is probably only important in case of mixed 
modules.  However as Rob proposed the usage of yang-data-ext I will put 
it up as an open issue in Montreal. OK?

regards Balazs


On 6/26/2018 5:30 PM, Ladislav Lhotka wrote:
> On Tue, 2018-06-26 at 15:58 +0200, Balazs Lengyel wrote:
>> Hello Lada,
>> I don't insist on using yang-data-ext, but I like it.  Isn't this the exact
>> use case for it: defining yang structured data that will never be loaded into
>> a datastore. In this case the structure of the instance-data-set fits.
> On the other hand, if it's never loaded into a datastore, there is no need to
> encapsulate the data and break tools that don't support yang-data-ext.
>
> The encapsulation is really needed only if such data is mixed with "real" YANG
> data node definitions in the same module - for example, if error-message schemas
> are defined along with datastore contents, operations etc.
>
>> If I would remove the yd:yang-data instance-data-format  statement it would
>> not affect the actual file content. It just serves as  an indication that this
>> is not  a datastore definition.
> A comment in the module should perfecty suffice. Andy argued with machine
> readability, but I don't see how it can be useful here.
>
> And, after all, if a server implementor for whatever weird reason decides to
> implement this module, what's wrong on doing so?
>
> Lada
>
>> regards Balazs
>>
>> On 6/15/2018 9:41 AM, Ladislav Lhotka wrote:
>>> Hi,
>>>
>>> I support the adoption of this I-D as a workgroup item and my plan is to
>>> implement it.
>>>
>>> However, my suggestion is to avoid the use of yang-data-ext. It is
>>> absolutely useless in this case and only complicates things that are
>>> otherwise pretty trivial.
>>>
>>> Lada
>>>
>>> Balazs Lengyel  writes:
>>>
>>>> Hello,
>>>>
>>>> I submitted a new version of the yang-instance-data draft updated with
>>>> comments from the last
>>>> IETF and others. I would like to get this adopted as a workgroup item.
>>>> Please review it and if you
>>>> like it please indicate that you support it as a workgroup item.
>>>>
>>>> Changes:
>>>>     o  Redefined using yang-data-ext
>>>>     o  Moved meta data into ordinary leafs/leaf-lists
>>>>     o  Corrections, clarifications
>>>>
>>>> regards Balazs
>>>>
>>>> -------- Forwarded Message --------
>>>>
>>>>   Subject:   New Version Notification for draft-lengyel-netmod-yang-
>>>> instance-data-01.txt
>>>>   Date:   Wed, 13 Jun 2018 06:47:16 -0700
>>>>   From:   internet-drafts@ietf.org
>>>>   To:   Benoit Claise , Balazs Lengyel
>>>>     
>>>>
>>>> A new version of I-D, draft-lengyel-netmod-yang-instance-data-01.txt
>>>> has been successfully submitted by Balazs Lengyel and posted to the
>>>> IETF repository.
>>>>
>>>> Name:		draft-lengyel-netmod-yang-instance-data
>>>> Revision:	01
>>>> Title:		YANG Instance Data Files and their use for
>>>> Documenting Server Capabilities
>>>> Document date:	2018-06-13
>>>> Group:		Individual Submission
>>>> Pages:		10
>>>> URL:            https://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-lengyel-netmod-
>>>> yang-instance-data-01.txt
>>>> Status:         https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-lengyel-netmod-yang
>>>> -instance-data/
>>>> Htmlized:       https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-lengyel-netmod-yang-inst
>>>> ance-data-01
>>>> Htmlized:       https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/html/draft-lengyel-netmod
>>>> -yang-instance-data
>>>> Diff:           https://www.ietf.org/rfcdiff?url2=draft-lengyel-netmod-yan
>>>> g-instance-data-01
>>>>
>>>> Abstract:
>>>>     This document specifies a standard file format for YANG instance
>>>>     data, that is data that could be stored in a datastore and whose
>>>>     syntax and semantics is defined by YANG models.  Instance data files
>>>>     can be used to provide information that is defined in design time.
>>>>     There is a need to document Server capabilities (which are often
>>>>     specified in design time), which should be done using instance data
>>>>     files.
>>>>
>>>>                                                                            
>>>>          
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Please note that it may take a couple of minutes from the time of
>>>> submission
>>>> until the htmlized version and diff are available at tools.ietf.org.
>>>>
>>>> The IETF Secretariat
>>>>
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> netmod mailing list
>>>> netmod@ietf.org
>>>> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/netmod

-- 
Balazs Lengyel                       Ericsson Hungary Ltd.
Senior Specialist
Mobile: +36-70-330-7909              email: Balazs.Lengyel@ericsson.com


From nobody Tue Jun 26 08:37:16 2018
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Date: Tue, 26 Jun 2018 17:37:02 +0200
From: Juergen Schoenwaelder 
To: Balazs Lengyel 
Cc: Robert Wilton , "netmod@ietf.org" 
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Subject: Re: [netmod] Fwd: New Version Notification for draft-lengyel-netmod-yang-instance-data-01.txt
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My plain text email reader fails on the quoting and this is usually
where I drop out of discussions since I can't follow anymore.

On Tue, Jun 26, 2018 at 05:09:56PM +0200, Balazs Lengyel wrote:
> 
>    BALAZS: I did not find anything about leading/trailing whitespace e.g. for
>    an integer in RFC 7950 either. Is it allowed/prohibited?
>

7.5.7.  XML Encoding Rules

   [...]

   Any whitespace between the subelements to the container is
   insignificant, i.e., an implementation MAY insert whitespace
   characters between subelements.

7.6.6.  XML Encoding Rules

   The value of the leaf node is encoded to XML according to the type
   and is sent as character data in the element.

Note that there is no text that arbitrary whitespace may be added by a
writer and removed by a reader. Hence, I believe for values contained
in leafs, extra whitespace is not allowed. However, between containers
and leafs whitespace is insignificant. The simple reason is that for
string values, you can't simply strip leading/trailing whitespace and
in order to treat all leafs the same, you do not strip
leading/trailing whitespace in general.

That said, some parsers may (following Postel's principle) accept
 +1 if the YANG definition of foo says it is an int32 but
writers should generate 1 (the canonical format without
added whitespace). Note that if foo is defined to be a string, then
clearly the white space belongs to the string value.

If we define a file serialization format, then the format should be
the natural canonical serialization format (and if the definition of
the serialization formats is not clear enough, then we have to fix
these definitions by filing errata).

/js

-- 
Juergen Schoenwaelder           Jacobs University Bremen gGmbH
Phone: +49 421 200 3587         Campus Ring 1 | 28759 Bremen | Germany
Fax:   +49 421 200 3103         


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Subject: Re: [netmod] Fwd: New Version Notification for draft-lengyel-netmod-yang-instance-data-01.txt
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    Any opinions on Rob's suggestion about a free-text versioning
    string?
    
    I am neutral on this.
    
    
    
    regards Balazs
    
    
    
    
    On 6/26/2018 5:31 PM, Robert Wilton
      wrote:
    
    
    
    
    
      
    On 26/06/2018 16:20, Balazs Lengyel
        wrote:
    
      
    
      
    
        
    On 6/26/2018 4:07 PM, Robert Wilton
          wrote:
    
        
    
        
    
          
    
            
    
              
    
                
          
                  7) It might want to include a semantic version number
                  for an 
    
                         instance-data-set, depending on whether the
                  YANG versioning discussions 
    
                         ends up. 
    
                  
    
                       BALAZS: Yes I would like to. However I am not
                  exactly clear on what does 
    
                       backwards compatibility mean for instance data. 
    
                       Data MAY NOT be removed or changed only added. 
                  ??? 
    
                       Who would use the semver numbers ??? 
    
                
    
                What does the version number mean? Every change of
                instance data in an 
    
                instacne-data-set leads to a new version number? What is
                a bug fix in 
    
                this sense? What is a non-backwards compatible change of
                instance data? 
    
                I am left a bit puzzled. 
    
              
    
              Probably I don't mean semantic version.  But often files
              have versioning, or 
    
              revision, information associated with them.  This can be
              muxed into the file 
    
              name/path, but it also seems like potentially useful
              metadata, and being 
    
              able to handle this generically in a consistent way might
              be beneficial. 
    
              
    
              As an example, perhaps the capability information related
              to S/W release 
    
              1.2.4, etc. 
    
            
    
            We need to separate a version number of the instance data
            from the a 
    
            version number (or version context) that may be needed in
            order to 
    
            understand what a YANG (module, path) tuple means if we move
            to a 
    
            different YANG versioning scheme. The later I agree would be
            needed, 
    
            the former I am less sure of - at least if we talk semantic
            version 
    
            numbers. 
    
          
    
          Yes, I agree with the need for the latter, that may entail
          listing the versions of the modules in the meta-data. 
    
          
    
          But what I was actually referring to was the former, and
          thinking more of it is just being a string field in the
          meta-data with a well defined name, that is optional to
          populate.  Actually, I see the current definition already has
          a revision with a date and description string.  This is
          roughly along the lines of what I was thinking of for
          versioning (although I'm not sure why this should be a list
          rather than just a pair of leaves). 
    
          
    
          Thanks, 
    
          Rob 
    
        
    
        BALAZS:  IMHO if we want to use versioning
          (semver) to version the instance-data-set itself we first need
          to understand what backwards compatibility means for an
          instance data set.
    
        
    
      So, I'm suggesting versioning, but not semver.  Just a string
      version field.  E.g. for XR I would just put in the XR release
      number "R4.5.1" or similar.
    
    
    
    
    
    
    Balazs Lengyel                       Ericsson Hungary Ltd.
Senior Specialist
Mobile: +36-70-330-7909              email: Balazs.Lengyel@ericsson.com 

    
  



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From: Juergen Schoenwaelder 
To: Balazs Lengyel 
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On Tue, Jun 26, 2018 at 05:38:10PM +0200, Balazs Lengyel wrote:
>    Any opinions on Rob's suggestion about a free-text versioning string?
>    I am neutral on this.
>

It needs to be clear _what_ is versioned. I have seen conflicting
views. I have heard so far:

- the YANG version context once (module, path) is not sufficient anymore
- the instance data version
- a version number refering to a specific software release of a server

/js

-- 
Juergen Schoenwaelder           Jacobs University Bremen gGmbH
Phone: +49 421 200 3587         Campus Ring 1 | 28759 Bremen | Germany
Fax:   +49 421 200 3103         


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Note, adding it to the meta-data YANG definition does not mean that 
everyone has to populate this, it just ensures that it has a consistent 
name and semantics for clients/servers that do want to use it.

Thanks,
Rob


On 26/06/2018 16:38, Balazs Lengyel wrote:
> Any opinions on Rob's suggestion about a free-text versioning string?
> I am neutral on this.
>
> regards Balazs
>
> On 6/26/2018 5:31 PM, Robert Wilton wrote:
>> On 26/06/2018 16:20, Balazs Lengyel wrote:
>>> On 6/26/2018 4:07 PM, Robert Wilton wrote:
>>>>>>>> 7) It might want to include a semantic version number for an
>>>>>>>>        instance-data-set, depending on whether the YANG 
>>>>>>>> versioning discussions
>>>>>>>>        ends up.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>      BALAZS: Yes I would like to. However I am not exactly 
>>>>>>>> clear on what does
>>>>>>>>      backwards compatibility mean for instance data.
>>>>>>>>      Data MAY NOT be removed or changed only added. ???
>>>>>>>>      Who would use the semver numbers ???
>>>>>>> What does the version number mean? Every change of instance data 
>>>>>>> in an
>>>>>>> instacne-data-set leads to a new version number? What is a bug 
>>>>>>> fix in
>>>>>>> this sense? What is a non-backwards compatible change of 
>>>>>>> instance data?
>>>>>>> I am left a bit puzzled.
>>>>>> Probably I don't mean semantic version.  But often files have 
>>>>>> versioning, or
>>>>>> revision, information associated with them.  This can be muxed 
>>>>>> into the file
>>>>>> name/path, but it also seems like potentially useful metadata, 
>>>>>> and being
>>>>>> able to handle this generically in a consistent way might be 
>>>>>> beneficial.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> As an example, perhaps the capability information related to S/W 
>>>>>> release
>>>>>> 1.2.4, etc.
>>>>> We need to separate a version number of the instance data from the a
>>>>> version number (or version context) that may be needed in order to
>>>>> understand what a YANG (module, path) tuple means if we move to a
>>>>> different YANG versioning scheme. The later I agree would be needed,
>>>>> the former I am less sure of - at least if we talk semantic version
>>>>> numbers.
>>>> Yes, I agree with the need for the latter, that may entail listing 
>>>> the versions of the modules in the meta-data.
>>>>
>>>> But what I was actually referring to was the former, and thinking 
>>>> more of it is just being a string field in the meta-data with a 
>>>> well defined name, that is optional to populate.  Actually, I see 
>>>> the current definition already has a revision with a date and 
>>>> description string.  This is roughly along the lines of what I was 
>>>> thinking of for versioning (although I'm not sure why this should 
>>>> be a list rather than just a pair of leaves).
>>>>
>>>> Thanks,
>>>> Rob
>>> BALAZS:  IMHO if we want to use versioning (semver) to version the 
>>> instance-data-set itself we first need to understand what backwards 
>>> compatibility means for an instance data set.
>> So, I'm suggesting versioning, but not semver.  Just a string version 
>> field.  E.g. for XR I would just put in the XR release number 
>> "R4.5.1" or similar.
>
> Balazs Lengyel                       Ericsson Hungary Ltd.
> Senior Specialist
> Mobile: +36-70-330-7909              email:Balazs.Lengyel@ericsson.com  
> . 


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    Note, adding it to the meta-data YANG definition does not mean
      that everyone has to populate this, it just ensures that it has a
      consistent name and semantics for clients/servers that do want to
      use it.
    
    
    
    
    Thanks,
    
      Rob
    
    
    
    
    
    
    On 26/06/2018 16:38, Balazs Lengyel
      wrote:
    
    
    
    
    
      
      Any opinions on Rob's suggestion about a free-text versioning
      string?
    
      I am neutral on this.
    
      
    
      regards Balazs
    
      
    
      
    On 6/26/2018 5:31 PM, Robert Wilton
        wrote:
    
      
    
      
    
        
    On 26/06/2018 16:20, Balazs Lengyel
          wrote:
    
        
    
        
    
          
    On 6/26/2018 4:07 PM, Robert
            Wilton wrote:
    
          
    
          
    
            
    
              
    
                
    
                  
          
                    7) It might want to include a semantic version
                    number for an 
    
                           instance-data-set, depending on whether the
                    YANG versioning discussions 
    
                           ends up. 
    
                    
    
                         BALAZS: Yes I would like to. However I am not
                    exactly clear on what does 
    
                         backwards compatibility mean for instance data.
                    
    
                         Data MAY NOT be removed or changed only added. 
                    ??? 
    
                         Who would use the semver numbers ??? 
    
                  
    
                  What does the version number mean? Every change of
                  instance data in an 
    
                  instacne-data-set leads to a new version number? What
                  is a bug fix in 
    
                  this sense? What is a non-backwards compatible change
                  of instance data? 
    
                  I am left a bit puzzled. 
    
                
    
                Probably I don't mean semantic version.  But often files
                have versioning, or 
    
                revision, information associated with them.  This can be
                muxed into the file 
    
                name/path, but it also seems like potentially useful
                metadata, and being 
    
                able to handle this generically in a consistent way
                might be beneficial. 
    
                
    
                As an example, perhaps the capability information
                related to S/W release 
    
                1.2.4, etc. 
    
              
    
              We need to separate a version number of the instance data
              from the a 
    
              version number (or version context) that may be needed in
              order to 
    
              understand what a YANG (module, path) tuple means if we
              move to a 
    
              different YANG versioning scheme. The later I agree would
              be needed, 
    
              the former I am less sure of - at least if we talk
              semantic version 
    
              numbers. 
    
            
    
            Yes, I agree with the need for the latter, that may entail
            listing the versions of the modules in the meta-data. 
    
            
    
            But what I was actually referring to was the former, and
            thinking more of it is just being a string field in the
            meta-data with a well defined name, that is optional to
            populate.  Actually, I see the current definition already
            has a revision with a date and description string.  This is
            roughly along the lines of what I was thinking of for
            versioning (although I'm not sure why this should be a list
            rather than just a pair of leaves). 
    
            
    
            Thanks, 
    
            Rob 
    
          
    
          BALAZS:  IMHO if we want to use
            versioning (semver) to version the instance-data-set itself
            we first need to understand what backwards compatibility
            means for an instance data set.
    
          
    
        So, I'm suggesting versioning, but not semver.  Just a string
        version field.  E.g. for XR I would just put in the XR release
        number "R4.5.1" or similar.
    
      
    
      
    
      
    Balazs Lengyel                       Ericsson Hungary Ltd.
Senior Specialist
Mobile: +36-70-330-7909              email: Balazs.Lengyel@ericsson.com 

    
      .
    
    
    
    
  


--------------095470A58A058566A537F8C2--


From nobody Tue Jun 26 08:44:38 2018
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Date: Tue, 26 Jun 2018 17:44:30 +0200
From: Juergen Schoenwaelder 
To: Balazs Lengyel 
Cc: Martin Bjorklund , netmod@ietf.org
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Subject: Re: [netmod] Fwd: New Version Notification for draft-lengyel-netmod-yang-instance-data-01.txt
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On Tue, Jun 26, 2018 at 05:31:27PM +0200, Balazs Lengyel wrote:
> Hello Juergen,
> 
> Sorry the wording was misleading. I want these capabilities both as state
> data AND as instance-data-files, because
> there is a need to know this information before you ever see the real
> network node. How about the following?
> 
> "YANG servers SHOULD document server capabilities that are available via Netconf/Restconf (as YANG defined data) also using instance-data-files."
>

I am against this. I think we should standardize the format and not
how the format is used. And it remains unclear why this would be a
SHOULD or how one implements this SHOULD and in which cases one can
ignore it. Again, I do not like to mix specification of mechanisms
with the specification of policies how mechanisms are to be used.

/js

-- 
Juergen Schoenwaelder           Jacobs University Bremen gGmbH
Phone: +49 421 200 3587         Campus Ring 1 | 28759 Bremen | Germany
Fax:   +49 421 200 3103         


From nobody Tue Jun 26 08:50:45 2018
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From: Ladislav Lhotka 
To: Balazs Lengyel , netmod@ietf.org, Robert Wilton 
Date: Tue, 26 Jun 2018 17:51:15 +0200
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Subject: Re: [netmod] Fwd: New Version Notification for draft-lengyel-netmod-yang-instance-data-01.txt
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On Tue, 2018-06-26 at 17:34 +0200, Balazs Lengyel wrote:
> Hello Lada,
> 
> Maybe you are right. It is probably only important in case of mixed 
> modules.  However as Rob proposed the usage of yang-data-ext I will put 
> it up as an open issue in Montreal. OK?

Sure, this is only a marginal issue.

Thanks, Lada

> 
> regards Balazs
> 
> 
> On 6/26/2018 5:30 PM, Ladislav Lhotka wrote:
> > On Tue, 2018-06-26 at 15:58 +0200, Balazs Lengyel wrote:
> > > Hello Lada,
> > > I don't insist on using yang-data-ext, but I like it.  Isn't this the
> > > exact
> > > use case for it: defining yang structured data that will never be loaded
> > > into
> > > a datastore. In this case the structure of the instance-data-set fits.
> > 
> > On the other hand, if it's never loaded into a datastore, there is no need
> > to
> > encapsulate the data and break tools that don't support yang-data-ext.
> > 
> > The encapsulation is really needed only if such data is mixed with "real"
> > YANG
> > data node definitions in the same module - for example, if error-message
> > schemas
> > are defined along with datastore contents, operations etc.
> > 
> > > If I would remove the yd:yang-data instance-data-format  statement it
> > > would
> > > not affect the actual file content. It just serves as  an indication that
> > > this
> > > is not  a datastore definition.
> > 
> > A comment in the module should perfecty suffice. Andy argued with machine
> > readability, but I don't see how it can be useful here.
> > 
> > And, after all, if a server implementor for whatever weird reason decides to
> > implement this module, what's wrong on doing so?
> > 
> > Lada
> > 
> > > regards Balazs
> > > 
> > > On 6/15/2018 9:41 AM, Ladislav Lhotka wrote:
> > > > Hi,
> > > > 
> > > > I support the adoption of this I-D as a workgroup item and my plan is to
> > > > implement it.
> > > > 
> > > > However, my suggestion is to avoid the use of yang-data-ext. It is
> > > > absolutely useless in this case and only complicates things that are
> > > > otherwise pretty trivial.
> > > > 
> > > > Lada
> > > > 
> > > > Balazs Lengyel  writes:
> > > > 
> > > > > Hello,
> > > > > 
> > > > > I submitted a new version of the yang-instance-data draft updated with
> > > > > comments from the last
> > > > > IETF and others. I would like to get this adopted as a workgroup item.
> > > > > Please review it and if you
> > > > > like it please indicate that you support it as a workgroup item.
> > > > > 
> > > > > Changes:
> > > > >     o  Redefined using yang-data-ext
> > > > >     o  Moved meta data into ordinary leafs/leaf-lists
> > > > >     o  Corrections, clarifications
> > > > > 
> > > > > regards Balazs
> > > > > 
> > > > > -------- Forwarded Message --------
> > > > > 
> > > > >   Subject:   New Version Notification for draft-lengyel-netmod-yang-
> > > > > instance-data-01.txt
> > > > >   Date:   Wed, 13 Jun 2018 06:47:16 -0700
> > > > >   From:   internet-drafts@ietf.org
> > > > >   To:   Benoit Claise , Balazs Lengyel
> > > > >     
> > > > > 
> > > > > A new version of I-D, draft-lengyel-netmod-yang-instance-data-01.txt
> > > > > has been successfully submitted by Balazs Lengyel and posted to the
> > > > > IETF repository.
> > > > > 
> > > > > Name:		draft-lengyel-netmod-yang-instance-data
> > > > > Revision:	01
> > > > > Title:		YANG Instance Data Files and their use for
> > > > > Documenting Server Capabilities
> > > > > Document date:	2018-06-13
> > > > > Group:		Individual Submission
> > > > > Pages:		10
> > > > > URL:            https://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-lengyel-net
> > > > > mod-
> > > > > yang-instance-data-01.txt
> > > > > Status:         https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-lengyel-netmod-
> > > > > yang
> > > > > -instance-data/
> > > > > Htmlized:       https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-lengyel-netmod-yang-
> > > > > inst
> > > > > ance-data-01
> > > > > Htmlized:       https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/html/draft-lengyel-ne
> > > > > tmod
> > > > > -yang-instance-data
> > > > > Diff:           https://www.ietf.org/rfcdiff?url2=draft-lengyel-netmod
> > > > > -yan
> > > > > g-instance-data-01
> > > > > 
> > > > > Abstract:
> > > > >     This document specifies a standard file format for YANG instance
> > > > >     data, that is data that could be stored in a datastore and whose
> > > > >     syntax and semantics is defined by YANG models.  Instance data
> > > > > files
> > > > >     can be used to provide information that is defined in design time.
> > > > >     There is a need to document Server capabilities (which are often
> > > > >     specified in design time), which should be done using instance
> > > > > data
> > > > >     files.
> > > > > 
> > > > >                                                                       
> > > > >      
> > > > >          
> > > > > 
> > > > > 
> > > > > Please note that it may take a couple of minutes from the time of
> > > > > submission
> > > > > until the htmlized version and diff are available at tools.ietf.org.
> > > > > 
> > > > > The IETF Secretariat
> > > > > 
> > > > > _______________________________________________
> > > > > netmod mailing list
> > > > > netmod@ietf.org
> > > > > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/netmod
> 
> 
-- 
Ladislav Lhotka
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To: Balazs Lengyel , "netmod@ietf.org" 
References: <75383a97-d08b-b202-70a6-eab064963af8@ericsson.com>   <20180626121156.fq5ioq2gh5sy3v7n@anna.jacobs.jacobs-university.de>  <20180626135232.cdlrbbideyackdfe@anna.jacobs.jacobs-university.de>  <341ece85-4e00-dca4-580a-de234306c941@ericsson.com>  <3cf59f95-8d26-44c5-2f30-947befa29f72@ericsson.com> <20180626154155.qlekivbn4sdgriua@anna.jacobs.jacobs-university.de>
From: Robert Wilton 
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Date: Tue, 26 Jun 2018 16:55:32 +0100
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Subject: Re: [netmod] Fwd: New Version Notification for draft-lengyel-netmod-yang-instance-data-01.txt
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On 26/06/2018 16:41, Juergen Schoenwaelder wrote:
> On Tue, Jun 26, 2018 at 05:38:10PM +0200, Balazs Lengyel wrote:
>>     Any opinions on Rob's suggestion about a free-text versioning string?
>>     I am neutral on this.
>>
> It needs to be clear _what_ is versioned. I have seen conflicting
> views. I have heard so far:
>
> - the YANG version context once (module, path) is not sufficient anymore
I agree with Juergen, that depending on where YANG versioning goes, that 
a mechanism to provide this information is required (e.g. a list of 
modules + semvers for the schema used in the instance data).  It should 
be optional to publishers whether they populate this information.

> - the instance data version
The draft already has instance-data revisions.  I regard that as a 
mechanism for versioning instance data.  I'm not saying that this is 
necessary the right approach.

> - a version number refering to a specific software release of a server
I see this "version" as file level meta-data information, in the same 
category as name, contact, description, organization meta-data fields 
that the draft currently provides.  Another field that may be 
generically useful is the time/date stamp of when the instance data was 
generated.  Although perhaps the timestamp of the file is sufficient for 
this purpose.

Thanks,
Rob


>
> /js
>


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To: netmod@ietf.org
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From: Robert Wilton 
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Date: Tue, 26 Jun 2018 16:57:23 +0100
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Subject: Re: [netmod] Fwd: New Version Notification for draft-lengyel-netmod-yang-instance-data-01.txt
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On 26/06/2018 16:44, Juergen Schoenwaelder wrote:
> On Tue, Jun 26, 2018 at 05:31:27PM +0200, Balazs Lengyel wrote:
>> Hello Juergen,
>>
>> Sorry the wording was misleading. I want these capabilities both as state
>> data AND as instance-data-files, because
>> there is a need to know this information before you ever see the real
>> network node. How about the following?
>>
>> "YANG servers SHOULD document server capabilities that are available via Netconf/Restconf (as YANG defined data) also using instance-data-files."
>>
> I am against this. I think we should standardize the format and not
> how the format is used. And it remains unclear why this would be a
> SHOULD or how one implements this SHOULD and in which cases one can
> ignore it. Again, I do not like to mix specification of mechanisms
> with the specification of policies how mechanisms are to be used.
+1.

I think that the draft should just give examples of how it may be used, 
probably in an appendix.  Or if we want to standardize capabilities then 
that should be a separate draft that depends on this one.

Thanks,
Rob

>
> /js
>


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Subject: Re: [netmod] Fwd: New Version Notification for draft-lengyel-netmod-yang-instance-data-01.txt
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Juergen Schoenwaelder  wrote:
> On Tue, Jun 26, 2018 at 05:31:27PM +0200, Balazs Lengyel wrote:
> > Hello Juergen,
> > 
> > Sorry the wording was misleading. I want these capabilities both as state
> > data AND as instance-data-files, because
> > there is a need to know this information before you ever see the real
> > network node. How about the following?
> > 
> > "YANG servers SHOULD document server capabilities that are available via Netconf/Restconf (as YANG defined data) also using instance-data-files."
> >
> 
> I am against this. I think we should standardize the format and not
> how the format is used. And it remains unclear why this would be a
> SHOULD or how one implements this SHOULD and in which cases one can
> ignore it. Again, I do not like to mix specification of mechanisms
> with the specification of policies how mechanisms are to be used.

+1

This is what I tried to say as well in my comments on this document.


/martin


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On Tue, Jun 26, 2018 at 04:55:32PM +0100, Robert Wilton wrote:
> 
> Another field that may be generically useful is the time/date stamp
> of when the instance data was generated. Although perhaps the
> timestamp of the file is sufficient for this purpose.

I support adding a time/date stamp. (The time/date stamp of the file
is easily lost if you are not extremely careful with preserving file
metadata.)

/js

-- 
Juergen Schoenwaelder           Jacobs University Bremen gGmbH
Phone: +49 421 200 3587         Campus Ring 1 | 28759 Bremen | Germany
Fax:   +49 421 200 3103         


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Subject: Re: [netmod] Call for adoption request of draft-kwatsen-netmod-artwork-folding-04
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From nobody Tue Jun 26 11:58:10 2018
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Date: Tue, 26 Jun 2018 20:58:07 +0200 (CEST)
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Subject: Re: [netmod] Call for adoption request of draft-kwatsen-netmod-artwork-folding-04
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Kent Watsen  wrote:
> 
> Hi Martin,
> 
> First, I just posted -05 to address the missing artwork:
> https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-kwatsen-netmod-artwork-folding-05.

Thanks!

(The exmaples with just a string of '\' are highy confusing.  Unclear
what they try to tell me... probably that the alg is much more
difficult than I originally thought ;-)


> See below for more comments.
> 
> Kent // contributor
> 
> 
> ===== original message =====
> 
> > Hi,
> >
> > I support this work.   See below for some comments.
> >
> > Qin Wu  wrote:
> >> Dear WG,
> >> 
> >> As you may recall I presented yang-xml-doc-conventions in London.
> >> There was strong support for trying to solve the problem and mixed
> >> views on the solution, other than that we should do it fast.  In the
> >> meanwhile, Kent submitted artwork-folding as an alternative solution.
> >> 
> >> The authors of the two drafts decided to combine efforts.  After
> >> several internal iterations on both drafts, the drafts were becoming
> >> more alike than different(both support auto wrapping or auto folding).
> >> The artwork-folding draft was selected as a preferred offering basis
> >> (i.e., draft-kwatsen-netmod-artwork-folding-04) to the working group
> >> to consider for adoption.
> >> 
> >> The primary feature differences remained are:
> >>   - all folded lines continue of column 0 without two character
> >>     indentation, i.e., whether auto indentation should be supported.
> >
> > I really liked the flexible indentation in the other draft.  I suggest
> > it is added to this draft.  It enhances readability (if the author
> > wants it).
> 
> Variable indentation, when the folded-line starts on same column as
> the previous line, looks nice.  The current yang-xml-doc-conventions
> draft has a fixed two-space indent, which would only look nice sometimes 
> while introducing a surprise factor other times.

Hmm, I thought it had variable-length indentation.

> Variable indent introduces significant complexity; at least, it's beyond
> what can be accomplished by a `sed` one-liner, such as in the current 
> draft.  A fixed two-space indent is possible (easy), but zero-space 
> indent is more common (less surprising) than a fixed indent.

I like the algorithm in the other draft better - it had variable
placement of the line break ("\\n" sequence), and variable
indentation.

Note that your proposed format is just a special case of the format in
the other draft, so you can still use your "one-liner" sed to produce
your result.

> >>   - handle two special case on backslash and space at the end of broken
> >>     line in yang-xml-doc-conventions.
> >>   - propose to use  to extract
> >>     artwork from I-Ds.
> >
> > The artwork draft proposes only a header, which means that it is not
> > quite clear where the artwork ends.
> 
> Interesting point, but I think that artwork-framing is a different problem
> from artwork-folding.  If the goal is to support extracting artwork from
> txt-based RFC scripts, regardless if the artwork is folded or not, then we
> could level-up this draft to that role, while still supporting folding.
> 
> If we were to add a footer, maybe something like this:
> 
>   ===padding=== End Folding per BCP XX (RFC XXXX) ===padding===
> 
> where the "padding" fills in '=' characters until the max-line width is
> reached (same as how the header is done).

Ok.

> >> In the artwork draft, section 5.3, you write:
> >>
> >>   This line is self-describing in
> >>   three ways: use of '\' character, identification of BCP/RFC, and
> >>   identification of what the maximum line length is for the artwork.
> >>
> > I was confused about this maximum line length; it seems you define the
> > maximum line length ot be 53, but that seems too limiting, and indeed
> > in the example in 5.4 the max line length is 69.  (BTW, the example is
> > missing in the draft, as is the shell script in Appendix A).   In any
> > case, I don't see how the header identifies the max line length.
> 
> The draft says that the *minimal* header string is 53-characters).  We
> can make it less if needed, but it involves needing to fold the header
> itself, which could become messy.  Thoughts?
> 
> Per the line just before the one quoted above, this line is '=' padded
> on both sides until reaching the max value.  Apparently, this isn't 
> clear enough in the text, or do you think it's okay now?

The draft says:

  The header is two lines long.

  The first line is the following 53-character string

This is what made me confused.  I now understand that the idea is to pad
with '='.

But if we adopt the algorithm in the other draft, we don't need a
maximum line length like this.


/martin



> For what it's worth, I originally had the actually fold-column 
> (e.g., 69) printed in the header, but it was realized that it was 
> noise to the reader (humans don't care about the fold column number),
> whereas padding the line out provides visually meaningful information
> (e.g., one can hover the cursor over the end and then scroll the
> document to find all the folds).
> 
> 
> 
> > Also, in section 5.2, the first sentence is:
> >
> >  Scan the artwork to see if any line exceeds the desired maximum.
> >
> > But what is the desired maximum?   I assume that the idea is that the
> > author first selects a desired max?  Maybe add a line that explains
> > this, and again write that 69 is a reasonable value for use in I-Ds
> > and RFCs.
> 
> Right, the idea is that the author has a target fold-column in mind.
> It's an input parameter to the script in the appendix.  The max value
> defaults to 69.
> 
> I added the following sentence before the "scan" line above:
> 
>    Determine the desired maximum line length from input.  If no
>    value is explicitly specified, the value "69" SHOULD be used.
> 
> 
> 
> > /martin
> 
> Kent // contributor
> 
> 
> 


From nobody Tue Jun 26 12:25:48 2018
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From: Kent Watsen 
To: Martin Bjorklund 
CC: "bill.wu@huawei.com" , "netmod@ietf.org" 
Thread-Topic: [netmod] Call for adoption request of draft-kwatsen-netmod-artwork-folding-04
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Subject: Re: [netmod] Call for adoption request of draft-kwatsen-netmod-artwork-folding-04
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To: Balazs Lengyel , Robert Wilton , "netmod@ietf.org" 
References: <152889763632.15168.12247537431295038165.idtracker@ietfa.amsl.com> <75383a97-d08b-b202-70a6-eab064963af8@ericsson.com>   <20180626121156.fq5ioq2gh5sy3v7n@anna.jacobs.jacobs-university.de>  <20180626135232.cdlrbbideyackdfe@anna.jacobs.jacobs-university.de>  <341ece85-4e00-dca4-580a-de234306c941@ericsson.com>  <3cf59f95-8d26-44c5-2f30-947befa29f72@ericsson.com>
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Subject: Re: [netmod] Fwd: New Version Notification for draft-lengyel-netmod-yang-instance-data-01.txt
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On 6/26/18 11:38, Balazs Lengyel wrote:
> Any opinions on Rob's suggestion about a free-text versioning string?
> I am neutral on this.

Like I mentioned, I would use this for YANG Catalog input, and I would
want MD around yang-library instance data.  That MD would include the
vendor, platform, and version of software.

I'm not asking for all of these to be standardized, though.  I would
just want a way to extend the MD as needed.

Joe

> 
> regards Balazs
> 
> On 6/26/2018 5:31 PM, Robert Wilton wrote:
>> On 26/06/2018 16:20, Balazs Lengyel wrote:
>>> On 6/26/2018 4:07 PM, Robert Wilton wrote:
>>>>>>>>        7) It might want to include a semantic version number for an
>>>>>>>>        instance-data-set, depending on whether the YANG
>>>>>>>> versioning discussions
>>>>>>>>        ends up.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>      BALAZS: Yes I would like to. However I am not exactly clear
>>>>>>>> on what does
>>>>>>>>      backwards compatibility mean for instance data.
>>>>>>>>      Data MAY NOT be removed or changed only added.  ???
>>>>>>>>      Who would use the semver numbers ???
>>>>>>> What does the version number mean? Every change of instance data
>>>>>>> in an
>>>>>>> instacne-data-set leads to a new version number? What is a bug
>>>>>>> fix in
>>>>>>> this sense? What is a non-backwards compatible change of instance
>>>>>>> data?
>>>>>>> I am left a bit puzzled.
>>>>>> Probably I don't mean semantic version.  But often files have
>>>>>> versioning, or
>>>>>> revision, information associated with them.  This can be muxed
>>>>>> into the file
>>>>>> name/path, but it also seems like potentially useful metadata, and
>>>>>> being
>>>>>> able to handle this generically in a consistent way might be
>>>>>> beneficial.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> As an example, perhaps the capability information related to S/W
>>>>>> release
>>>>>> 1.2.4, etc.
>>>>> We need to separate a version number of the instance data from the a
>>>>> version number (or version context) that may be needed in order to
>>>>> understand what a YANG (module, path) tuple means if we move to a
>>>>> different YANG versioning scheme. The later I agree would be needed,
>>>>> the former I am less sure of - at least if we talk semantic version
>>>>> numbers.
>>>> Yes, I agree with the need for the latter, that may entail listing
>>>> the versions of the modules in the meta-data.
>>>>
>>>> But what I was actually referring to was the former, and thinking
>>>> more of it is just being a string field in the meta-data with a well
>>>> defined name, that is optional to populate.  Actually, I see the
>>>> current definition already has a revision with a date and
>>>> description string.  This is roughly along the lines of what I was
>>>> thinking of for versioning (although I'm not sure why this should be
>>>> a list rather than just a pair of leaves).
>>>>
>>>> Thanks,
>>>> Rob
>>> BALAZS:  IMHO if we want to use versioning (semver) to version the
>>> instance-data-set itself we first need to understand what backwards
>>> compatibility means for an instance data set.
>> So, I'm suggesting versioning, but not semver.  Just a string version
>> field.  E.g. for XR I would just put in the XR release number "R4.5.1"
>> or similar.
> 
> Balazs Lengyel                       Ericsson Hungary Ltd.
> Senior Specialist
> Mobile: +36-70-330-7909              email: Balazs.Lengyel@ericsson.com 
> 
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> netmod mailing list
> netmod@ietf.org
> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/netmod
> 


From nobody Tue Jun 26 13:08:13 2018
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Date: Tue, 26 Jun 2018 22:08:07 +0200 (CEST)
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To: kwatsen@juniper.net
Cc: bill.wu@huawei.com, netmod@ietf.org
From: Martin Bjorklund 
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Subject: Re: [netmod] Call for adoption request of draft-kwatsen-netmod-artwork-folding-04
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Kent Watsen  wrote:
> 
> 
> 
> > (The exmaples with just a string of '\' are highy confusing.  Unclear
> > what they try to tell me... probably that the alg is much more
> > difficult than I originally thought ;-)
> 
> Those are torture tests, but they due illustrate the one case where having
> the '\\n' on the fold column would've been illegal input (and hence the '\'
> was replaced with a 'x').  Great for internal algorithm validation, but
> perhaps unnecessary for the example in the text.  Or maybe enhance the
> comments above these lines to explain why they're there?

I suggest you remove this.

> See below for more comments.
> 
> 
> 
> >>> I really liked the flexible indentation in the other draft.  I suggest
> >>> it is added to this draft.  It enhances readability (if the author
> >>> wants it).
> >> 
> >> Variable indentation, when the folded-line starts on same column as
> >> the previous line, looks nice.  The current yang-xml-doc-conventions
> >> draft has a fixed two-space indent, which would only look nice sometimes 
> >> while introducing a surprise factor other times.
> >
> > Hmm, I thought it had variable-length indentation.
> 
> It was, but removed later, I think from WG comments.   Qin may know more.
> 
> 
> >> Variable indent introduces significant complexity; at least, it's beyond
> >> what can be accomplished by a `sed` one-liner, such as in the current 
> >> draft.  A fixed two-space indent is possible (easy), but zero-space 
> >> indent is more common (less surprising) than a fixed indent.
> >
> > I like the algorithm in the other draft better - it had variable
> > placement of the line break ("\\n" sequence), and variable
> > indentation.
> 
> How can you automated variable placement of the line-break, assuming no
> awareness of the file format?  Additionally, be aware that variable '\n'
> placement would necessitate pre-scanning the file to ensure *no* line
> ends in a '\\n', as opposed to just the lines that need folding.

I envision this format being used not just by a program, but also by
humans trying to construct nice looking examples.

Also, I would prefer a description of the format, rather than of one
algorithm that produces the format.


> > Note that your proposed format is just a special case of the format in
> > the other draft, so you can still use your "one-liner" sed to produce
> > your result.
> 
> True.
> 
> 
> >> >>   - handle two special case on backslash and space at the end of broken
> >> >>     line in yang-xml-doc-conventions.
> >> >>   - propose to use  to extract
> >> >>     artwork from I-Ds.
> >> >
> >> > The artwork draft proposes only a header, which means that it is not
> >> > quite clear where the artwork ends.
> >> 
> >> Interesting point, but I think that artwork-framing is a different problem
> >> from artwork-folding.  If the goal is to support extracting artwork from
> >> txt-based RFC scripts, regardless if the artwork is folded or not, then we
> >> could level-up this draft to that role, while still supporting folding.
> >> 
> >> If we were to add a footer, maybe something like this:
> >> 
> >>   ===padding=== End Folding per BCP XX (RFC XXXX) ===padding===
> >> 
> >> where the "padding" fills in '=' characters until the max-line width is
> >> reached (same as how the header is done).
> >
> > Ok.
> 
> I assume that you're okay-ing the proposed footer, but the real question is
> if we should expand the scope of this draft to include artwork-framing also?

I think I would prefer if there is also a footer.

> >> >> In the artwork draft, section 5.3, you write:
> >> >>
> >> >>   This line is self-describing in
> >> >>   three ways: use of '\' character, identification of BCP/RFC, and
> >> >>   identification of what the maximum line length is for the artwork.
> >> >>
> >> > I was confused about this maximum line length; it seems you define the
> >> > maximum line length ot be 53, but that seems too limiting, and indeed
> >> > in the example in 5.4 the max line length is 69.  (BTW, the example is
> >> > missing in the draft, as is the shell script in Appendix A).   In any
> >> > case, I don't see how the header identifies the max line length.
> >> 
> >> The draft says that the *minimal* header string is 53-characters).  We
> >> can make it less if needed, but it involves needing to fold the header
> >> itself, which could become messy.  Thoughts?
> >> 
> >> Per the line just before the one quoted above, this line is '=' padded
> >> on both sides until reaching the max value.  Apparently, this isn't 
> >> clear enough in the text, or do you think it's okay now?
> >
> > The draft says:
> >
> >  The header is two lines long.
> >
> >  The first line is the following 53-character string
> >
> > This is what made me confused.  I now understand that the idea is to pad
> > with '='.
> 
> Right, the full sentence is:
> 
>    The first line is the following 53-character string that has been
>    padded with roughly equal numbers of equal ('=') characters to reach
>    the artwork's maximum line length.
> 
> So, leave as is for now?

Well ... I don't think this text is even correct...  The section
describes the header with the first line being 53 characters.  But
that is just an example.  Maybe:

    The first line is an N-character string on the following form:

    === NOTE: '\' line wrapping per BCP XX (RFC XXXX) ===

    where N is the artwork's maximum length (the minimum length is
    53).  The string is padded with roughly equal numbers of equal
    ('=') characters in the beginning and end to reach the artwork's
    maximum line length.



... but as I wrote, I'd prefer a variable-length format.


/martin


> 
> 
> 
> > But if we adopt the algorithm in the other draft, we don't need a
> > maximum line length like this.
> 
> There still needs to be a maximum line length, whether it's identified
> in the header could be discussed.
> 
> 
> 
> > /martin
> 
> Kent
> 
> 
> 


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From: Qin Wu 
To: Kent Watsen , Martin Bjorklund 
CC: "netmod@ietf.org" 
Thread-Topic: [netmod] Call for adoption request of draft-kwatsen-netmod-artwork-folding-04
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From: Qin Wu 
To: Martin Bjorklund , "kwatsen@juniper.net" 
CC: "netmod@ietf.org" 
Thread-Topic: [netmod] Call for adoption request of draft-kwatsen-netmod-artwork-folding-04
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Subject: Re: [netmod] Call for adoption request of draft-kwatsen-netmod-artwork-folding-04
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Archived-At: 
Subject: Re: [netmod] Fwd: New Version Notification for draft-lengyel-netmod-yang-instance-data-01.txt
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    On 6/26/2018 5:55 PM, Robert Wilton wrote:
    
    
    
      
    - a version number
        refering to a specific software release of a server
        
    
      
    
      I see this "version" as file level meta-data information, in the
      same category as name, contact, description, organization
      meta-data fields that the draft currently provides.  Another field
      that may be generically useful is the time/date stamp of when the
      instance data was generated.  Although perhaps the timestamp of
      the file is sufficient for this purpose.
      
    
    
    
    BALAZS: Any meta-data defined tin the draft (including the
    revision-date) is about the instance-data-set. The file is only a
    mechanism to store the instance-data-set. 
    
    If you meant the file-system level timestamp of the file I think
    that's unreliable.
    
    Balazs
    
    
    
    
    -- 
Balazs Lengyel                       Ericsson Hungary Ltd.
Senior Specialist
Mobile: +36-70-330-7909              email: Balazs.Lengyel@ericsson.com 

    
  



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From: Qin Wu 
To: Jonathan Hansford , "netconf@ietf.org" , "netmod@ietf.org" 
Thread-Topic: [Netconf] Editorial comments on draft-kwatsen-netmod-artwork-folding-05
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Archived-At: 
Subject: Re: [netmod] Fwd: New Version Notification for draft-lengyel-netmod-yang-instance-data-01.txt
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    On 6/26/2018 5:44 PM, Juergen Schoenwaelder wrote:
    
    
    
      
    On Tue, Jun 26, 2018 at 05:31:27PM +0200, Balazs Lengyel wrote:

    
      
    
        
    Hello Juergen,

Sorry the wording was misleading. I want these capabilities both as state
data AND as instance-data-files, because
there is a need to know this information before you ever see the real
network node. How about the following?

"YANG servers SHOULD document server capabilities that are available via Netconf/Restconf (as YANG defined data) also using instance-data-files."


    
      
    
      
    I am against this. I think we should standardize the format and not
how the format is used. And it remains unclear why this would be a
SHOULD or how one implements this SHOULD and in which cases one can
ignore it. Again, I do not like to mix specification of mechanisms
with the specification of policies how mechanisms are to be used.

/js

    
    
    
    BALAZS: The current draft really says two things:
    
    
      
      
    1. this is the format for instance data
      2. 
      
    2. instance-data SHOULD be used to document server capabilities
      3. 
    
    
    IMHO both are important. I fear that if we exclude the second one
    from this draft it will never get documented, even though it is an
    important statement. Or would you support a 2 page draft stating
    that you SHOULD document ietf-yang-library content with
    instance-data?
    
    regards Balazs
    
    
    -- 
Balazs Lengyel                       Ericsson Hungary Ltd.
Senior Specialist
Mobile: +36-70-330-7909              email: Balazs.Lengyel@ericsson.com 

    
  



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From: "Jonathan Hansford" 
To: "Qin Wu" , "netconf@ietf.org" , "netmod@ietf.org" 
Date: Wed, 27 Jun 2018 08:54:47 +0000
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Archived-At: 
Subject: Re: [netmod] [Netconf] Editorial comments on draft-kwatsen-netmod-artwork-folding-05
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Re Section 4.1, 2nd paragraph, can I suggest the first sentence be 
reworded along the lines of "Fundamentally, the issue is whether the 
artwork remains readable once folded." And I would add that sentence to 
the end of the previous paragraph and start paragraph 2 afterwards.

------ Original Message ------
From: "Qin Wu" 
To: "Jonathan Hansford" ; "netconf@ietf.org" 
; "netmod@ietf.org" 
Sent: 27/06/2018 09:09:47
Subject: RE: [Netconf] Editorial comments on 
draft-kwatsen-netmod-artwork-folding-05

>Thanks Jonathan for comments, please see my reply inline below.
>
>
>
>=E5=8F=91=E4=BB=B6=E4=BA=BA: Netconf [mailto:netconf-bounces@ietf.org] =E4=
=BB=A3=E8=A1=A8 Jonathan Hansford
>=E5=8F=91=E9=80=81=E6=97=B6=E9=97=B4: 2018=E5=B9=B46=E6=9C=8826=E6=97=A5 2=
3:46
>=E6=94=B6=E4=BB=B6=E4=BA=BA:netconf@ietf.org
>=E4=B8=BB=E9=A2=98: [Netconf] Editorial comments on 
>draft-kwatsen-netmod-artwork-folding-05
>
>
>
>Hi,
>
>
>
>Just a few editorial comments on 
>draft-kwatsen-netmod-artwork-folding-05:
>
>General:Though there is a header to indicate where the artwork starts, 
>there is no footer to indicate where it ends. How would a parser know 
>when to stop?
>[Qin]: Good point, if you follows netmod discussion, Martin has similar 
>suggestion. We need to decide whether we should support fold framing or 
>extract artwork based on header and footer in this draft.
>
>Should the header (and footer) be deleted for any artwork that does not 
>require folding?
>[Qin]If we allow the user to specify maximum length limit for each 
>line, I think header and footer is not needed,
>
>         If we use header and footer to indicate where the line start 
>and where the line end, header and footer is only needed during artwork 
>extraction phase.
>
>Section 4.1: 1st paragraph: A very minor issue, but "e.g." and "etc." 
>should not be used in the same list. "e.g." is used for a list of 
>examples and by implication isn't complete, therefore "etc." is already 
>inferred.
>                           [Qin]: Okay.
>
>2nd paragraph: Not sure what the 1st sentence is saying.
>                       [Qin] Suppose the artwork is a table, the table 
>needs to be folded, folding result may look bad.
>
>2nd sentence: s/susceptible is/susceptible to3rd sentence: s/fair/fairs
>                     [Qin]: Okay, thanks.
>
>Section 4.2, 3rd paragraph, 1st sentence: repetition of "out" - one of 
>them needs removingSection 5.2:2nd paragraph, 1st sentence: s/than 
>then/than the3rd paragraph, 1st sentence: s/be lead/lead
>                [Qin]: Okay, thanks.
>
>Section 5.3:2nd paragraph: s/Caluculate/Calculate4th paragraph: 
>Arguably this should be from bottom-to-top as, going from 
>top-to-bottom, once you have concatenated two lines the '\' will not be 
>on the folding-column
>             [Qin]:In our code, we will delete unneeded =E2=80=98\=E2=80=
=99 line by line 
>from top to bottom. It think whether from bottom to top or from top to 
>bottom, it doesn=E2=80=99t matter since it is implementation specific.
>
>Jonathan
>
>
>
>
>
>Virus-free. www.avast.com 
>
>
>
>

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    Re Section 4.1, 2nd paragraph, can I suggest the first sentence=
 be reworded along the lines of "Fundamentally, the issue is whether the art=
work remains readable once folded." And I would add that sentence to the en=
d of the previous paragraph and start paragraph 2 afterwards.
    


    

    ------ Original Message ------
    

    From: "Qin Wu" <bill.wu@huawe=
i.com>
    

    To: "Jonathan Hansford" <=
jonathan@hansfords.net>; "netconf@ietf.org" <netconf@ietf.org>; "netmod@ietf.org" <netmod@ietf.org>
    

    Sent: 27/06/2018 09:09:47
    

    Subject: RE: [Netconf] Editorial comments on draft-kwatsen-netmod-artw=
ork-folding-05

    

    


    

    Thanks Jon=
athan for comments, please see my reply inline below.
    

    =C2=A0
    

    

    

    =E5=8F=91=E4=BB=
=B6=E4=BA=BA: Netconf [mailto:netconf-bounces@ietf.org]
=E4=BB=A3=E8=A1=A8 Jonathan Hansford
    
=E5=8F=91=E9=80=81=E6=97=B6=E9=
=97=B4: 2018=E5=B9=B46=E6=9C=8826=E6=97=A5=
 23:46
    
    =E6=94=B6=E4=BB=B6=E4=BA=BA: netconf@ietf.org
=E4=B8=BB=E9=A2=98: [Netconf] Editorial comments on draft-kwatsen-netmod-artwork-foldin=
g-05
    

    

    

    =C2=
=A0
    

    Hi,
    

    

    =C2=A0
    

    

    

    Just a few editorial comments on=C2=A0dr=
aft-kwatsen-netmod-artwork-folding-05:
    

    

    

      

    • 
General:
    

      

        

      • 
Though there is a header to indicate where the artwork starts,=
 there is no footer to indicate where it ends. How would a parser know when=
 to stop?=C2=A0
      

    

    
[Qin]: Good point, if you follows =
netmod discussion, Martin has similar suggestion. We need to decide whethe=
r we should support fold framing or extract artwork based
 on header and footer in this draft.=

    

      

        

      • 
Should the header (and footer) be deleted for any artwork that=
 does not require folding?
      

    

    
[Qin]If we allow the user to spec=
ify maximum length limit for each line, I think header and footer is not ne=
eded,
    

    
=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=
=A0 =C2=A0If we use header and footer to indicate where the line start and=
 where the line end, header and footer is only needed during artwork extract=
ion phase.
    

      

    • 
Section 4.1:=C2=A0
      • <=
/ul>

        

          

        • 
1st paragraph: A very minor issue, but "e.g." and "etc." should =
not be used in the same list. "e.g." is used for a list of examples and by =
implication isn't complete, therefore "etc." is already
 inferred.
        

      

      =C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=
=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=
=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 [Qin]: Okay.
      

        

          

        • 
2nd paragraph:=C2=A0
        

      

        

          

            

          • 
Not sure what the 1st sentence is saying.=C2=A0
          

        

      

      =C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=
=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=
=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 [Qin] Suppose the artwork is a table, the table =
needs to be folded,
 folding result may look bad.
      

        

          

            

          • 
2nd sentence: s/susceptible is/susceptible to
          • 
3rd sentence: s/fair/fairs
          

        

      

      =C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=
=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=
=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 [Qin]: Okay, thanks.=

      

        

      • 
Section 4.2,=C2=A03rd paragraph, 1st sentence: repetition of "o=
ut" - one of them needs removing
      • 
Section 5.2:
      

        

          

        • 
2nd paragraph, 1st sentence: s/than then/than the
        • 
3rd paragraph, 1st sentence: s/be lead/lead
        

      

      =C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=
=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 [Qin]: Okay, t=
hanks.
      

        

      • 
Section 5.3:
      

        

          

        • 
2nd paragraph: s/Caluculate/Calculate=

        • 
4th paragraph: Arguably this should be from bottom-to-top as, g=
oing from top-to-bottom, once you have concatenated two lines the '\' will=
 not be on the folding-column
          • 

        

        =C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=
=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 [Qin]:In our code, we will delet=
e unneeded =E2=80=98\=E2=80=99 line by line from top to
 bottom. It think whether from bottom to top or from top to bottom, it does=
n=E2=80=99t matter since it is implementation specific.
        

        

        Jonathan=

        

        

    

    

    =C2=A0
    

    


    


    
    		


    Virus-free.

www.avast.com 
    
    		

    
    

    

    =C2=
=A0
    

    

    

    



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On Wed, Jun 27, 2018 at 10:15:10AM +0200, Balazs Lengyel wrote:
> 
>    BALAZS: The current draft really says two things:
> 
>     1. this is the format for instance data
>     2. instance-data SHOULD be used to document server capabilities
> 
>    IMHO both are important. I fear that if we exclude the second one from
>    this draft it will never get documented, even though it is an important
>    statement. Or would you support a 2 page draft stating that you SHOULD
>    document ietf-yang-library content with instance-data?

I support 1. and I do not support 2.

(And the first thing we need fro 2. is a YANG data model for server
capabilities.)

/js

-- 
Juergen Schoenwaelder           Jacobs University Bremen gGmbH
Phone: +49 421 200 3587         Campus Ring 1 | 28759 Bremen | Germany
Fax:   +49 421 200 3103         


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To: Balazs Lengyel , "netmod@ietf.org" 
References: <75383a97-d08b-b202-70a6-eab064963af8@ericsson.com>   <20180626121156.fq5ioq2gh5sy3v7n@anna.jacobs.jacobs-university.de>  <20180626135232.cdlrbbideyackdfe@anna.jacobs.jacobs-university.de>  <341ece85-4e00-dca4-580a-de234306c941@ericsson.com>  <3cf59f95-8d26-44c5-2f30-947befa29f72@ericsson.com> <20180626154155.qlekivbn4sdgriua@anna.jacobs.jacobs-university.de>  <3672180f-7017-8a08-0360-18198493a241@ericsson.com>
From: Robert Wilton 
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Date: Wed, 27 Jun 2018 10:56:28 +0100
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Subject: Re: [netmod] Fwd: New Version Notification for draft-lengyel-netmod-yang-instance-data-01.txt
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On 27/06/2018 09:09, Balazs Lengyel wrote:
> On 6/26/2018 5:55 PM, Robert Wilton wrote:
>>> - a version number refering to a specific software release of a server
>> I see this "version" as file level meta-data information, in the same 
>> category as name, contact, description, organization meta-data fields 
>> that the draft currently provides.  Another field that may be 
>> generically useful is the time/date stamp of when the instance data 
>> was generated.  Although perhaps the timestamp of the file is 
>> sufficient for this purpose.
> BALAZS: Any meta-data defined tin the draft (including the 
> revision-date) is about the instance-data-set. The file is only a 
> mechanism to store the instance-data-set.
I'm still envisaging a single YANG instance data file containing 
multiple instances of YANG data.  In this scenario some of the meta data 
may be at the file level, and some of the meta-data may be at the per 
instance level.  I was suggesting that a time/date stamp of when the 
data was generated would be at the file level rather than at the 
instance level.

Thanks,
Rob



> If you meant the file-system level timestamp of the file I think 
> that's unreliable.
> Balazs
>
> -- 
> Balazs Lengyel                       Ericsson Hungary Ltd.
> Senior Specialist
> Mobile: +36-70-330-7909              email:Balazs.Lengyel@ericsson.com  
> . 


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    On 27/06/2018 09:09, Balazs Lengyel
      wrote:
    
    
    
    
    
      
      On 6/26/2018 5:55 PM, Robert Wilton wrote:
    
      
    
        
    - a version
          number refering to a specific software release of a server 
    
        
    
        I see this "version" as file level meta-data information, in the
        same category as name, contact, description, organization
        meta-data fields that the draft currently provides.  Another
        field that may be generically useful is the time/date stamp of
        when the instance data was generated.  Although perhaps the
        timestamp of the file is sufficient for this purpose. 
    
      
    
      BALAZS: Any meta-data defined tin the draft (including the
      revision-date) is about the instance-data-set. The file is only a
      mechanism to store the instance-data-set. 
    
    
    
    I'm still envisaging a single YANG instance data file containing
    multiple instances of YANG data.  In this scenario some of the meta
    data may be at the file level, and some of the meta-data may be at
    the per instance level.  I was suggesting that a time/date stamp of
    when the data was generated would be at the file level rather than
    at the instance level.
    
    
    
    Thanks,
    
    Rob
    
    
    
    
    
    
    
    
     If
      you meant the file-system level timestamp of the file I think
      that's unreliable.
    
      Balazs
    
      
    
      
    -- 
Balazs Lengyel                       Ericsson Hungary Ltd.
Senior Specialist
Mobile: +36-70-330-7909              email: Balazs.Lengyel@ericsson.com 

    
      .
    
    
    
    
  


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To: Qin Wu , "netmod@ietf.org" 
References: 
From: Robert Wilton 
Message-ID: <194df0e3-038d-d0cc-ea45-f5448fc10562@cisco.com>
Date: Wed, 27 Jun 2018 11:41:11 +0100
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Subject: Re: [netmod] Call for adoption request of draft-kwatsen-netmod-artwork-folding-04
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Support/adopt.

A couple of comments:

1) Section 4.2 suggests using groupings to presumably avoid folding.  I 
don't really support this as a strategy, since I think that groupings 
are overused and I think that they obfuscate the true structure of a 
YANG module, that can only be recovered by recompiling the module with 
the groupings expanded, or looking at the tree output.  Really, I think 
that an ideal solution would be to somehow have RFCs support longer 
lines for files like YANG - e.g. if I could choose any value without 
regard for backwards compatibility I would probably choose 120 
characters instead.

2) The proposed solution always left indents the wrapped line. Often for 
artwork (e.g. a YANG tree diagram), where whitespace is not significant, 
and the wrapping is relatively minor, then right indenting the wrapped 
line can make the results look more visually readable.

E.g.  I think that this is slightly easier to read:

module: ietf-flexible-encapsulation
   augment /if:interfaces/if:interface/if-cmn:encapsulation\
                                         /if-cmn:encaps-type:
     +--:(flexible)
        +--rw flexible
           +--rw match
           |  +--rw (match-type)
           |     +--:(default)
           |     |  +--rw default?                 empty
           |     +--:(untagged)
           |     |  +--rw untagged?                empty
           |     +--:(dot1q-priority-tagged)
           |     |  +--rw dot1q-priority-tagged
           |     |     +--rw tag-type?   dot1q-types:dot1q-\
                                                    tag-type
           |     +--:(dot1q-vlan-tagged)
           |        +--rw dot1q-vlan-tagged

rather than:

module: ietf-flexible-encapsulation
   augment /if:interfaces/if:interface/if-cmn:encapsulation\
/if-cmn:encaps-type:
     +--:(flexible)
        +--rw flexible
           +--rw match
           |  +--rw (match-type)
           |     +--:(default)
           |     |  +--rw default?                 empty
           |     +--:(untagged)
           |     |  +--rw untagged?                empty
           |     +--:(dot1q-priority-tagged)
           |     |  +--rw dot1q-priority-tagged
           |     |     +--rw tag-type?   dot1q-types:dot1q-\
tag-type
           |     +--:(dot1q-vlan-tagged)
           |        +--rw dot1q-vlan-tagged

Thanks,
Rob


On 23/06/2018 02:37, Qin Wu wrote:
> Dear WG,
>
> As you may recall I presented yang-xml-doc-conventions in London.  There was strong support for trying to solve the problem and mixed views on the solution, other than that we should do it fast.  In the meanwhile, Kent submitted artwork-folding as an alternative solution.
>
> The authors of the two drafts decided to combine efforts.  After several internal iterations on both drafts, the drafts were becoming more alike than different(both support auto wrapping or auto folding).  The artwork-folding draft was selected as a preferred offering basis (i.e., draft-kwatsen-netmod-artwork-folding-04) to the working group to consider for adoption.
>
> The primary feature differences remained are:
>    - all folded lines continue of column 0 without two character indentation, i.e., whether auto indentation should be supported.
>    - handle two special case on backslash and space at the end of broken line in yang-xml-doc-conventions.
>    - propose to use  to extract artwork from I-Ds.
>
> Thanks,
> Qin, Kent, Benoit and Adrian
> -----邮件原件-----
> å‘件人: internet-drafts@ietf.org [mailto:internet-drafts@ietf.org]
> å‘é€æ—¶é—´: 2018å¹´6月23æ—¥ 9:33
> 收件人: Benoit Claise; Qin Wu; Kent Watsen; Adrian Farrel; Benoît Claise
> 主题: New Version Notification for draft-kwatsen-netmod-artwork-folding-04.txt
>
>
> A new version of I-D, draft-kwatsen-netmod-artwork-folding-04.txt
> has been successfully submitted by Qin Wu and posted to the IETF repository.
>
> Name:		draft-kwatsen-netmod-artwork-folding
> Revision:	04
> Title:		Handling Long Lines in Artwork in Drafts
> Document date:	2018-06-22
> Group:		Individual Submission
> Pages:		9
> URL:            https://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-kwatsen-netmod-artwork-folding-04.txt
> Status:         https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-kwatsen-netmod-artwork-folding/
> Htmlized:       https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-kwatsen-netmod-artwork-folding-04
> Htmlized:       https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/html/draft-kwatsen-netmod-artwork-folding
> Diff:           https://www.ietf.org/rfcdiff?url2=draft-kwatsen-netmod-artwork-folding-04
>
> Abstract:
>     This document introduces a simple and yet time-proven strategy for
>     handling long lines in artwork in drafts using a backslash ('\')
>     character where line-folding has occurred.  The strategy works on any
>     text based artwork, producing consistent results regardless the
>     artwork content.  Using a per-artwork header, the strategy is both
>     self-documenting and enables automated reconstitution of the original
>     artwork.
>
>                                                                                    
>
>
> Please note that it may take a couple of minutes from the time of submission until the htmlized version and diff are available at tools.ietf.org.
>
> The IETF Secretariat
>
> _______________________________________________
> netmod mailing list
> netmod@ietf.org
> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/netmod


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From: Kent Watsen 
To: Martin Bjorklund 
CC: "bill.wu@huawei.com" , "netmod@ietf.org" 
Thread-Topic: [netmod] Call for adoption request of draft-kwatsen-netmod-artwork-folding-04
Thread-Index: AQHUCpK0us9UwwoDtU2EaBoFZiTowKRyWwQAgAAxxwCAAF1MgP//xKAAgABO74CAAR8egA==
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Subject: Re: [netmod] Call for adoption request of draft-kwatsen-netmod-artwork-folding-04
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From nobody Wed Jun 27 13:43:18 2018
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Kent Watsen  wrote:
> 
> 
> >> Those are torture tests, but they due illustrate the one case where having
> >> the '\\n' on the fold column would've been illegal input (and hence the '\'
> >> was replaced with a 'x').  Great for internal algorithm validation, but
> >> perhaps unnecessary for the example in the text.  Or maybe enhance the
> >> comments above these lines to explain why they're there?
> >
> > I suggest you remove this.
> 
> Okay.
> 
> 
> >> > I like the algorithm in the other draft better - it had variable
> >> > placement of the line break ("\\n" sequence), and variable
> >> > indentation.
> >> 
> >> How can you automated variable placement of the line-break, assuming no
> >> awareness of the file format?  Additionally, be aware that variable '\n'
> >> placement would necessitate pre-scanning the file to ensure *no* line
> >> ends in a '\\n', as opposed to just the lines that need folding.
> >
> > I envision this format being used not just by a program, but also by
> > humans trying to construct nice looking examples.
> 
> I really hope humans don't try to do this manually, as the results are 
> error-prone, and it isn't consistent with the goal of integrating validation
> in the build scripts that compile the drafts, for which automated-folding
> is needed (see section 3.1).

I disagree.  I often use my own markup in example files so that I can
validate the examples with tools, and then run a script that turns the
markup into newlines (in the future: '\' + newline).

For example:

           urn:ietf:params:xml:ns:yang:ietf-yang-types


turns into:

           \
             urn:ietf:params:xml:ns:yang:ietf-yang-types
           

(the  is my own markup).

Compare with

             urn:ietf:params:xml:ns:yang:ietf-yang-types


Not sure if this qualifies as "manual folding" or not.


> I'm not saying that manual-folding shouldn't
> be possible, I'm saying that it is ill-advised, and we shouldn't go out of
> our way to support it.

I don't think it is difficult to support variable placement of the
linebreak.   It is already specified in the other draft.

> I do not support variable placement of the 
> line-break.
> 
> [Note: indentation of the beginning of the line is a different issue, and
> one that I actually support, assuming it is easily automatable]
> 
> 
> > Also, I would prefer a description of the format, rather than of one
> > algorithm that produces the format.
> 
> Okay, we will look into it.
> 
> 
> >> >> >>   - handle two special case on backslash and space at the end of broken
> >> >> >>     line in yang-xml-doc-conventions.
> >> >> >>   - propose to use  to extract
> >> >> >>     artwork from I-Ds.
> >> >> >
> >> >> > The artwork draft proposes only a header, which means that it is not
> >> >> > quite clear where the artwork ends.
> >> >> 
> >> >> Interesting point, but I think that artwork-framing is a different problem
> >> >> from artwork-folding.  If the goal is to support extracting artwork from
> >> >> txt-based RFC scripts, regardless if the artwork is folded or not, then we
> >> >> could level-up this draft to that role, while still supporting folding.
> >> >> 
> >> >> If we were to add a footer, maybe something like this:
> >> >> 
> >> >>   ===padding=== End Folding per BCP XX (RFC XXXX) ===padding===
> >> >> 
> >> >> where the "padding" fills in '=' characters until the max-line width is
> >> >> reached (same as how the header is done).
> >> >
> >> > Ok.
> >> 
> >> I assume that you're okay-ing the proposed footer, but the real question is
> >> if we should expand the scope of this draft to include artwork-framing also?
> >
> > I think I would prefer if there is also a footer.
> 
> Why?  Do you propose the same for all artwork, regardless if it's been folded
> or not?  To me, these are different issues.

Hmm, good point.  Maybe ignore for now.


/martin


> >> >> >> In the artwork draft, section 5.3, you write:
> >> >> >>
> >> >> >>   This line is self-describing in
> >> >> >>   three ways: use of '\' character, identification of BCP/RFC, and
> >> >> >>   identification of what the maximum line length is for the artwork.
> >> >> >>
> >> >> > I was confused about this maximum line length; it seems you define the
> >> >> > maximum line length ot be 53, but that seems too limiting, and indeed
> >> >> > in the example in 5.4 the max line length is 69.  (BTW, the example is
> >> >> > missing in the draft, as is the shell script in Appendix A).   In any
> >> >> > case, I don't see how the header identifies the max line length.
> >> >> 
> >> >> The draft says that the *minimal* header string is 53-characters).  We
> >> >> can make it less if needed, but it involves needing to fold the header
> >> >> itself, which could become messy.  Thoughts?
> >> >> 
> >> >> Per the line just before the one quoted above, this line is '=' padded
> >> >> on both sides until reaching the max value.  Apparently, this isn't 
> >> >> clear enough in the text, or do you think it's okay now?
> >> >
> >> > The draft says:
> >> >
> >> >  The header is two lines long.
> >> >
> >> >  The first line is the following 53-character string
> >> >
> >> > This is what made me confused.  I now understand that the idea is to pad
> >> > with '='.
> >> 
> >> Right, the full sentence is:
> >> 
> >>    The first line is the following 53-character string that has been
> >>    padded with roughly equal numbers of equal ('=') characters to reach
> >>    the artwork's maximum line length.
> >> 
> >> So, leave as is for now?
> >
> > Well ... I don't think this text is even correct...  The section
> > describes the header with the first line being 53 characters.  But
> > that is just an example.  Maybe:
> >
> >    The first line is an N-character string on the following form:
> >
> >    === NOTE: '\' line wrapping per BCP XX (RFC XXXX) ===
> >
> >    where N is the artwork's maximum length (the minimum length is
> >    53).  The string is padded with roughly equal numbers of equal
> >    ('=') characters in the beginning and end to reach the artwork's
> >    maximum line length.
> 
> Yes, this is better
> 
> 
> > ... but as I wrote, I'd prefer a variable-length format.
> 
> Understood, being discussed above.
> 
> 
> > /martin
> 
> Kent // contributor
> 
> 
> 


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From: Kent Watsen 
To: Qin Wu , Jonathan Hansford , "netconf@ietf.org" , "netmod@ietf.org" 
Thread-Topic: [netmod] [Netconf] Editorial comments on draft-kwatsen-netmod-artwork-folding-05
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From: Kent Watsen 
To: Robert Wilton , Qin Wu , "netmod@ietf.org" 
Thread-Topic: [netmod] Call for adoption request of draft-kwatsen-netmod-artwork-folding-04
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Subject: Re: [netmod] Call for adoption request of draft-kwatsen-netmod-artwork-folding-04
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From: Qin Wu 
To: Kent Watsen , Robert Wilton , "netmod@ietf.org" 
Thread-Topic: [netmod] Call for adoption request of draft-kwatsen-netmod-artwork-folding-04
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Date: Thu, 28 Jun 2018 01:21:40 +0000
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References:  <194df0e3-038d-d0cc-ea45-f5448fc10562@cisco.com> <70F6E49F-C83F-4C38-92CB-860631B4C050@juniper.net>
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Subject: Re: [netmod] Call for adoption request of draft-kwatsen-netmod-artwork-folding-04
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Kent Watsen  wrote:
> All, I just posted -06 that addresses some comments from Rob, Martin,
> and Jonathan.  I realize that there are still open issues, but a rapid
> iteration for some of these things seems like it might be good:
> https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-kwatsen-netmod-artwork-folding-06.
> 
> 
> Hi Robert,
> 
> > A couple of comments:
> > 
> > 1) Section 4.2 suggests using groupings to presumably avoid folding.  I 
> > don't really support this as a strategy, since I think that groupings 
> > are overused and I think that they obfuscate the true structure of a 
> > YANG module, that can only be recovered by recompiling the module with 
> > the groupings expanded, or looking at the tree output.  Really, I think 
> > that an ideal solution would be to somehow have RFCs support longer 
> > lines for files like YANG - e.g. if I could choose any value without 
> > regard for backwards compatibility I would probably choose 120 
> > characters instead.
> 
> I removed the word "grouping" from the text.  Now it says "...call outs,
> such as functions".
> 
> 
> 
> > 2) The proposed solution always left indents the wrapped line. Often for 
> > artwork (e.g. a YANG tree diagram), where whitespace is not significant, 
> > and the wrapping is relatively minor, then right indenting the wrapped 
> > line can make the results look more visually readable.
> >
> > E.g.  I think that this is slightly easier to read:
> >
> > module: ietf-flexible-encapsulation
> >   augment /if:interfaces/if:interface/if-cmn:encapsulation\
> >                                         /if-cmn:encaps-type:
> >     +--:(flexible)
> >        +--rw flexible
> >           +--rw match
> >           |  +--rw (match-type)
> >           |     +--:(default)
> >           |     |  +--rw default?                 empty
> >           |     +--:(untagged)
> >           |     |  +--rw untagged?                empty
> >           |     +--:(dot1q-priority-tagged)
> >           |     |  +--rw dot1q-priority-tagged
> >           |     |     +--rw tag-type?   dot1q-types:dot1q-\
> >                                                    tag-type
> >           |     +--:(dot1q-vlan-tagged)
> >           |        +--rw dot1q-vlan-tagged
> >
> > rather than:
> >
> > module: ietf-flexible-encapsulation
> >   augment /if:interfaces/if:interface/if-cmn:encapsulation\
> >/if-cmn:encaps-type:
> >     +--:(flexible)
> >        +--rw flexible
> >           +--rw match
> >           |  +--rw (match-type)
> >           |     +--:(default)
> >           |     |  +--rw default?                 empty
> >           |     +--:(untagged)
> >           |     |  +--rw untagged?                empty
> >           |     +--:(dot1q-priority-tagged)
> >           |     |  +--rw dot1q-priority-tagged
> >           |     |     +--rw tag-type?   dot1q-types:dot1q-\
> >tag-type
> >           |     +--:(dot1q-vlan-tagged)
> >           |        +--rw dot1q-vlan-tagged
> 
> 
> 
> The placement of the indents in the example above would be impossible
> to automate - they're too artsy ;)   However, it should be possible 
> to automate a variable indent that lines up with the first printable
> character on the previous line.  Something like this:
> 
>  module: ietf-flexible-encapsulation
>    augment /if:interfaces/if:interface/if-cmn:encapsulation\
>    /if-cmn:encaps-type:
>      +--:(flexible)
>         +--rw flexible
>            +--rw match
>            |  +--rw (match-type)
>            |     +--:(default)
>            |     |  +--rw default?                 empty
>            |     +--:(untagged)
>            |     |  +--rw untagged?                empty
>            |     +--:(dot1q-priority-tagged)
>            |     |  +--rw dot1q-priority-tagged
>            |     |     +--rw tag-type?   dot1q-types:dot1q-\
>            tag-type
>            |     +--:(dot1q-vlan-tagged)
>            |        +--rw dot1q-vlan-tagged
> 
> [note: previous line indent matching is beyond what can be accomplished
> via a simple `sed` or `awk` one-liner]. 
> 
> Regardless if automated or manual, I think the indent rule needs to be
> rather strict.  In particular, arbitrary per-line indent can lead to
> lossy round-tripping (unfolding errors), unless we introduce a rule
> saying that the source artwork MUST NOT have a space (' ') character
> that occurring on a fold column.  Otherwise the following might happen.
> 
>   ORIG:
> 
>      example:
>         This very long line happens to have a space character immediately after the fold column.";
> 
> 
>   FOLDED:  *** doesn't matter the indentation strategy ***
> 
>      ===== NOTE: '\' line wrapping per BCP XX (RFC XXXX) =====
>      example:
>         This very long line happens to have a space character\
>         immediately after the fold column.";
> 
> 
>   UNFOLDED (using alg that chomps all leading whitespace):
> 
>      example:
>         This very long line happens to have a space characterimmediately after the fold column.";
> 
> 
> Note the error in the unfolded version.  I think disallowing
> whitespace characters on the fold column in the source artwork is
> overly limiting, spaces being so commonly used.

But with variable placement of the '\' character you can do:

        This very long line happens to have a space character \
        immediately after the fold column.";

or

        This very long line happens to have a space \
        character immediately after the fold column.";



so I'm not sure that disallowing space at the fold column is a
problem.

Note that even with this, your original "one-liner sed" still produces
valid results, so if you just want a simple folding program you can
use that.


/martin


> The only way I 
> can think to preserve the space character is to have a fixed 
> indent rule (e.g., some hardcoded column number, or always use 
> the same indent as previous line, or the same as the previous 
> line plus some fixed offset).  Given a clear rule, the unfolding
> alg can chomp just the right amount of whitespace out, leaving
> the any remaining whitespace, so the round-trip result is loss-less.
> 
> 
> > Rob
> 
> Kent // contributor
> 
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> netmod mailing list
> netmod@ietf.org
> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/netmod
> 


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From: Bob Harold 
Date: Thu, 28 Jun 2018 09:42:36 -0400
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To: =?UTF-8?Q?martin_bj=C3=B6rklund?= 
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Subject: Re: [netmod] Call for adoption request of draft-kwatsen-netmod-artwork-folding-04
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--000000000000270a81056fb3e84d
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On Thu, Jun 28, 2018 at 2:08 AM Martin Bjorklund  wrote:

> Kent Watsen  wrote:
> > All, I just posted -06 that addresses some comments from Rob, Martin,
> > and Jonathan.  I realize that there are still open issues, but a rapid
> > iteration for some of these things seems like it might be good:
> > https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-kwatsen-netmod-artwork-folding-06.
> >
> >
> > Hi Robert,
> >
> > > A couple of comments:
> > >
> > > 1) Section 4.2 suggests using groupings to presumably avoid folding.
> I
> > > don't really support this as a strategy, since I think that groupings
> > > are overused and I think that they obfuscate the true structure of a
> > > YANG module, that can only be recovered by recompiling the module with
> > > the groupings expanded, or looking at the tree output.  Really, I
> think
> > > that an ideal solution would be to somehow have RFCs support longer
> > > lines for files like YANG - e.g. if I could choose any value without
> > > regard for backwards compatibility I would probably choose 120
> > > characters instead.
> >
> > I removed the word "grouping" from the text.  Now it says "...call outs,
> > such as functions".
> >
> >
> >
> > > 2) The proposed solution always left indents the wrapped line. Often
> for
> > > artwork (e.g. a YANG tree diagram), where whitespace is not
> significant,
> > > and the wrapping is relatively minor, then right indenting the wrapped
> > > line can make the results look more visually readable.
> > >
> > > E.g.  I think that this is slightly easier to read:
> > >
> > > module: ietf-flexible-encapsulation
> > >   augment /if:interfaces/if:interface/if-cmn:encapsulation\
> > >                                         /if-cmn:encaps-type:
> > >     +--:(flexible)
> > >        +--rw flexible
> > >           +--rw match
> > >           |  +--rw (match-type)
> > >           |     +--:(default)
> > >           |     |  +--rw default?                 empty
> > >           |     +--:(untagged)
> > >           |     |  +--rw untagged?                empty
> > >           |     +--:(dot1q-priority-tagged)
> > >           |     |  +--rw dot1q-priority-tagged
> > >           |     |     +--rw tag-type?   dot1q-types:dot1q-\
> > >                                                    tag-type
> > >           |     +--:(dot1q-vlan-tagged)
> > >           |        +--rw dot1q-vlan-tagged
> > >
> > > rather than:
> > >
> > > module: ietf-flexible-encapsulation
> > >   augment /if:interfaces/if:interface/if-cmn:encapsulation\
> > >/if-cmn:encaps-type:
> > >     +--:(flexible)
> > >        +--rw flexible
> > >           +--rw match
> > >           |  +--rw (match-type)
> > >           |     +--:(default)
> > >           |     |  +--rw default?                 empty
> > >           |     +--:(untagged)
> > >           |     |  +--rw untagged?                empty
> > >           |     +--:(dot1q-priority-tagged)
> > >           |     |  +--rw dot1q-priority-tagged
> > >           |     |     +--rw tag-type?   dot1q-types:dot1q-\
> > >tag-type
> > >           |     +--:(dot1q-vlan-tagged)
> > >           |        +--rw dot1q-vlan-tagged
> >
> >
> >
> > The placement of the indents in the example above would be impossible
> > to automate - they're too artsy ;)   However, it should be possible
> > to automate a variable indent that lines up with the first printable
> > character on the previous line.  Something like this:
> >
> >  module: ietf-flexible-encapsulation
> >    augment /if:interfaces/if:interface/if-cmn:encapsulation\
> >    /if-cmn:encaps-type:
> >      +--:(flexible)
> >         +--rw flexible
> >            +--rw match
> >            |  +--rw (match-type)
> >            |     +--:(default)
> >            |     |  +--rw default?                 empty
> >            |     +--:(untagged)
> >            |     |  +--rw untagged?                empty
> >            |     +--:(dot1q-priority-tagged)
> >            |     |  +--rw dot1q-priority-tagged
> >            |     |     +--rw tag-type?   dot1q-types:dot1q-\
> >            tag-type
> >            |     +--:(dot1q-vlan-tagged)
> >            |        +--rw dot1q-vlan-tagged
> >
> > [note: previous line indent matching is beyond what can be accomplished
> > via a simple `sed` or `awk` one-liner].
> >
> > Regardless if automated or manual, I think the indent rule needs to be
> > rather strict.  In particular, arbitrary per-line indent can lead to
> > lossy round-tripping (unfolding errors), unless we introduce a rule
> > saying that the source artwork MUST NOT have a space (' ') character
> > that occurring on a fold column.  Otherwise the following might happen.
> >
> >   ORIG:
> >
> >      example:
> >         This very long line happens to have a space character
> immediately after the fold column.";
> >
> >
> >   FOLDED:  *** doesn't matter the indentation strategy ***
> >
> >      ===== NOTE: '\' line wrapping per BCP XX (RFC XXXX) =====
> >      example:
> >         This very long line happens to have a space character\
> >         immediately after the fold column.";
> >
> >
> >   UNFOLDED (using alg that chomps all leading whitespace):
> >
> >      example:
> >         This very long line happens to have a space characterimmediately
> after the fold column.";
> >
> >
> > Note the error in the unfolded version.  I think disallowing
> > whitespace characters on the fold column in the source artwork is
> > overly limiting, spaces being so commonly used.
>
> But with variable placement of the '\' character you can do:
>
>         This very long line happens to have a space character \
>         immediately after the fold column.";
>
> or
>
>         This very long line happens to have a space \
>         character immediately after the fold column.";
>
>
>
> so I'm not sure that disallowing space at the fold column is a
> problem.
>
> Note that even with this, your original "one-liner sed" still produces
> valid results, so if you just want a simple folding program you can
> use that.
>
>
> /martin
>

The problem is that this does not work in cases where there are a lot of
spaces - particularly where there are more than 'line-length' spaces in a
row, in the middle of the line.

-- 
Bob Harold


>
> > The only way I
> > can think to preserve the space character is to have a fixed
> > indent rule (e.g., some hardcoded column number, or always use
> > the same indent as previous line, or the same as the previous
> > line plus some fixed offset).  Given a clear rule, the unfolding
> > alg can chomp just the right amount of whitespace out, leaving
> > the any remaining whitespace, so the round-trip result is loss-less.
> >
> >
> > > Rob
> >
> > Kent // contributor
>
>

--000000000000270a81056fb3e84d
Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable



    On Thu, Jun 28, 2018 at 2:08 AM Martin Bjorklund <mbj@tail-f.com> wrote:
    Kent Watsen <kwatsen@juniper.net> wrote:
    
> All, I just posted -06 that addresses some comments from Rob, Martin,<=
br>
> and Jonathan.=C2=A0 I realize that there are still open issues, but a =
rapid
    
> iteration for some of these things seems like it might be good:
    
> https://tools.ietf.org/html/=
draft-kwatsen-netmod-artwork-folding-06.
    
> 
    
> 
    
> Hi Robert,
    
> 
    
> > A couple of comments:
    
> > 
    
> > 1) Section 4.2 suggests using groupings to presumably avoid foldi=
ng.=C2=A0 I 
    
> > don't really support this as a strategy, since I think that g=
roupings 
    
> > are overused and I think that they obfuscate the true structure o=
f a 
    
> > YANG module, that can only be recovered by recompiling the module=
 with 
    
> > the groupings expanded, or looking at the tree output.=C2=A0 Real=
ly, I think 
    
> > that an ideal solution would be to somehow have RFCs support long=
er 
    
> > lines for files like YANG - e.g. if I could choose any value with=
out 
    
> > regard for backwards compatibility I would probably choose 120 
> > characters instead.
    
> 
    
> I removed the word "grouping" from the text.=C2=A0 Now it sa=
ys "...call outs,
    
> such as functions".
    
> 
    
> 
    
> 
    
> > 2) The proposed solution always left indents the wrapped line. Of=
ten for 
    
> > artwork (e.g. a YANG tree diagram), where whitespace is not signi=
ficant, 
    
> > and the wrapping is relatively minor, then right indenting the wr=
apped 
    
> > line can make the results look more visually readable.
    
> >
    
> > E.g.=C2=A0 I think that this is slightly easier to read:
    
> >
    
> > module: ietf-flexible-encapsulation
    
> >=C2=A0 =C2=A0augment /if:interfaces/if:interface/if-cmn:encapsulat=
ion\
    
> >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=
=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =
=C2=A0/if-cmn:encaps-type:
    
> >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0+--:(flexible)
    
> >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 +--rw flexible
    
> >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0+--rw match
    
> >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0|=C2=A0 +--rw (match-type=
)
    
> >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0|=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0+--:=
(default)
    
> >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0|=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0|=C2=
=A0 +--rw default?=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =
=C2=A0empty
    
> >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0|=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0+--:=
(untagged)
    
> >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0|=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0|=C2=
=A0 +--rw untagged?=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =
empty
    
> >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0|=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0+--:=
(dot1q-priority-tagged)
    
> >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0|=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0|=C2=
=A0 +--rw dot1q-priority-tagged
    
> >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0|=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0|=C2=
=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0+--rw tag-type?=C2=A0 =C2=A0dot1q-types:dot1q-\
    
> >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=
=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 tag-type
    
> >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0|=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0+--:=
(dot1q-vlan-tagged)
    
> >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0|=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=
=A0 +--rw dot1q-vlan-tagged
    
> >
    
> > rather than:
    
> >
    
> > module: ietf-flexible-encapsulation
    
> >=C2=A0 =C2=A0augment /if:interfaces/if:interface/if-cmn:encapsulat=
ion\
    
> >/if-cmn:encaps-type:
    
> >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0+--:(flexible)
    
> >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 +--rw flexible
    
> >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0+--rw match
    
> >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0|=C2=A0 +--rw (match-type=
)
    
> >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0|=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0+--:=
(default)
    
> >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0|=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0|=C2=
=A0 +--rw default?=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =
=C2=A0empty
    
> >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0|=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0+--:=
(untagged)
    
> >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0|=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0|=C2=
=A0 +--rw untagged?=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =
empty
    
> >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0|=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0+--:=
(dot1q-priority-tagged)
    
> >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0|=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0|=C2=
=A0 +--rw dot1q-priority-tagged
    
> >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0|=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0|=C2=
=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0+--rw tag-type?=C2=A0 =C2=A0dot1q-types:dot1q-\
    
> >tag-type
    
> >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0|=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0+--:=
(dot1q-vlan-tagged)
    
> >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0|=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=
=A0 +--rw dot1q-vlan-tagged
    
> 
    
> 
    
> 
    
> The placement of the indents in the example above would be impossible<=
br>
> to automate - they're too artsy ;)=C2=A0 =C2=A0However, it should =
be possible 
    
> to automate a variable indent that lines up with the first printable
> character on the previous line.=C2=A0 Something like this:
    
> 
    
>=C2=A0 module: ietf-flexible-encapsulation
    
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 augment /if:interfaces/if:interface/if-cmn:encapsulation\=

    
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 /if-cmn:encaps-type:
    
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 +--:(flexible)
    
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0+--rw flexible
    
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 +--rw match
    
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 |=C2=A0 +--rw (match-type)
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 |=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0+--:(def=
ault)
    
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 |=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0|=C2=A0 =
+--rw default?=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=
=A0empty
    
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 |=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0+--:(unt=
agged)
    
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 |=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0|=C2=A0 =
+--rw untagged?=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 empt=
y
    
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 |=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0+--:(dot=
1q-priority-tagged)
    
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 |=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0|=C2=A0 =
+--rw dot1q-priority-tagged
    
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 |=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0|=C2=A0 =
=C2=A0 =C2=A0+--rw tag-type?=C2=A0 =C2=A0dot1q-types:dot1q-\
    
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 tag-type
    
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 |=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0+--:(dot=
1q-vlan-tagged)
    
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 |=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =
+--rw dot1q-vlan-tagged
    
> 
    
> [note: previous line indent matching is beyond what can be accomplishe=
d
    
> via a simple `sed` or `awk` one-liner]. 
    
> 
    
> Regardless if automated or manual, I think the indent rule needs to be=

    
> rather strict.=C2=A0 In particular, arbitrary per-line indent can lead=
 to
    
> lossy round-tripping (unfolding errors), unless we introduce a rule
> saying that the source artwork MUST NOT have a space (' ') cha=
racter
    
> that occurring on a fold column.=C2=A0 Otherwise the following might h=
appen.
    
> 
    
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0ORIG:
    
> 
    
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 example:
    
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0This very long line happens to have a=
 space character immediately after the fold column.";
    
> 
    
> 
    
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0FOLDED:=C2=A0 *** doesn't matter the indentation strat=
egy ***
    
> 
    
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D NOTE: '\' line wrapping pe=
r BCP XX (RFC XXXX) =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D
    
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 example:
    
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0This very long line happens to have a=
 space character\
    
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0immediately after the fold column.&qu=
ot;;
    
> 
    
> 
    
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0UNFOLDED (using alg that chomps all leading whitespace):
> 
    
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 example:
    
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0This very long line happens to have a=
 space characterimmediately after the fold column.";
    
> 
    
> 
    
> Note the error in the unfolded version.=C2=A0 I think disallowing
    
> whitespace characters on the fold column in the source artwork is
    
> overly limiting, spaces being so commonly used.
    

    
But with variable placement of the '\' character you can do:
    

    
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 This very long line happens to have a space cha=
racter \
    
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 immediately after the fold column.";
    

    
or
    

    
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 This very long line happens to have a space \
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 character immediately after the fold column.&qu=
ot;;
    

    

    

    
so I'm not sure that disallowing space at the fold column is a
    
problem.
    

    
Note that even with this, your original "one-liner sed" still pro=
duces
    
valid results, so if you just want a simple folding program you can
    
use that.
    

    

    
/martin

    The problem is that this does n=
ot work in cases where there are a lot of spaces - particularly where there=
 are more than 'line-length' spaces in a row, in the middle of the =
line.

    --=C2=A0
    Bob Harold
    =C2=
=A0
    

    
> The only way I 
    
> can think to preserve the space character is to have a fixed 
    
> indent rule (e.g., some hardcoded column number, or always use 
    
> the same indent as previous line, or the same as the previous 
    
> line plus some fixed offset).=C2=A0 Given a clear rule, the unfolding<=
br>
> alg can chomp just the right amount of whitespace out, leaving
    
> the any remaining whitespace, so the round-trip result is loss-less.
> 
    
> 
    
> > Rob
    
> 
    
> Kent // contributor

    

    

--000000000000270a81056fb3e84d--


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Subject: Re: [netmod] Call for adoption request of draft-kwatsen-netmod-artwork-folding-04
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To: Kent Watsen , Qin Wu , "netmod@ietf.org" 
References:  <194df0e3-038d-d0cc-ea45-f5448fc10562@cisco.com> <70F6E49F-C83F-4C38-92CB-860631B4C050@juniper.net>
From: Robert Wilton 
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Date: Thu, 28 Jun 2018 17:43:04 +0100
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Subject: Re: [netmod] Call for adoption request of draft-kwatsen-netmod-artwork-folding-04
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Hi Kent,


On 28/06/2018 01:53, Kent Watsen wrote:
> All, I just posted -06 that addresses some comments from Rob, Martin,
> and Jonathan.  I realize that there are still open issues, but a rapid
> iteration for some of these things seems like it might be good:
> https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-kwatsen-netmod-artwork-folding-06.
>
>
> Hi Robert,
>
>> A couple of comments:
>>
>> 1) Section 4.2 suggests using groupings to presumably avoid folding.  I
>> don't really support this as a strategy, since I think that groupings
>> are overused and I think that they obfuscate the true structure of a
>> YANG module, that can only be recovered by recompiling the module with
>> the groupings expanded, or looking at the tree output.  Really, I think
>> that an ideal solution would be to somehow have RFCs support longer
>> lines for files like YANG - e.g. if I could choose any value without
>> regard for backwards compatibility I would probably choose 120
>> characters instead.
> I removed the word "grouping" from the text.  Now it says "...call outs,
> such as functions".
OK, thanks.
>
>
>
>> 2) The proposed solution always left indents the wrapped line. Often for
>> artwork (e.g. a YANG tree diagram), where whitespace is not significant,
>> and the wrapping is relatively minor, then right indenting the wrapped
>> line can make the results look more visually readable.
>>
>> E.g.  I think that this is slightly easier to read:
>>
>> module: ietf-flexible-encapsulation
>>    augment /if:interfaces/if:interface/if-cmn:encapsulation\
>>                                          /if-cmn:encaps-type:
>>      +--:(flexible)
>>         +--rw flexible
>>            +--rw match
>>            |  +--rw (match-type)
>>            |     +--:(default)
>>            |     |  +--rw default?                 empty
>>            |     +--:(untagged)
>>            |     |  +--rw untagged?                empty
>>            |     +--:(dot1q-priority-tagged)
>>            |     |  +--rw dot1q-priority-tagged
>>            |     |     +--rw tag-type?   dot1q-types:dot1q-\
>>                                                     tag-type
>>            |     +--:(dot1q-vlan-tagged)
>>            |        +--rw dot1q-vlan-tagged
>>
>> rather than:
>>
>> module: ietf-flexible-encapsulation
>>    augment /if:interfaces/if:interface/if-cmn:encapsulation\
>> /if-cmn:encaps-type:
>>      +--:(flexible)
>>         +--rw flexible
>>            +--rw match
>>            |  +--rw (match-type)
>>            |     +--:(default)
>>            |     |  +--rw default?                 empty
>>            |     +--:(untagged)
>>            |     |  +--rw untagged?                empty
>>            |     +--:(dot1q-priority-tagged)
>>            |     |  +--rw dot1q-priority-tagged
>>            |     |     +--rw tag-type?   dot1q-types:dot1q-\
>> tag-type
>>            |     +--:(dot1q-vlan-tagged)
>>            |        +--rw dot1q-vlan-tagged
>
>
> The placement of the indents in the example above would be impossible
> to automate - they're too artsy ;)
They are just right indented, so it is pretty easy to figure out?  E.g. 
start at  (Max line length - number of wrapped chars)


>     However, it should be possible
> to automate a variable indent that lines up with the first printable
> character on the previous line.  Something like this:
>
>   module: ietf-flexible-encapsulation
>     augment /if:interfaces/if:interface/if-cmn:encapsulation\
>     /if-cmn:encaps-type:
>       +--:(flexible)
>          +--rw flexible
>             +--rw match
>             |  +--rw (match-type)
>             |     +--:(default)
>             |     |  +--rw default?                 empty
>             |     +--:(untagged)
>             |     |  +--rw untagged?                empty
>             |     +--:(dot1q-priority-tagged)
>             |     |  +--rw dot1q-priority-tagged
>             |     |     +--rw tag-type?   dot1q-types:dot1q-\
>             tag-type
>             |     +--:(dot1q-vlan-tagged)
>             |        +--rw dot1q-vlan-tagged
>
> [note: previous line indent matching is beyond what can be accomplished
> via a simple `sed` or `awk` one-liner].
>   
>
> Regardless if automated or manual, I think the indent rule needs to be
> rather strict.  In particular, arbitrary per-line indent can lead to
> lossy round-tripping (unfolding errors), unless we introduce a rule
> saying that the source artwork MUST NOT have a space (' ') character
> that occurring on a fold column.  Otherwise the following might happen.
>
>    ORIG:
>
>       example:
>          This very long line happens to have a space character immediately after the fold column.";
>
>
>    FOLDED:  *** doesn't matter the indentation strategy ***
>
>       ===== NOTE: '\' line wrapping per BCP XX (RFC XXXX) =====
>       example:
>          This very long line happens to have a space character\
>          immediately after the fold column.";
>
>
>    UNFOLDED (using alg that chomps all leading whitespace):
>
>       example:
>          This very long line happens to have a space characterimmediately after the fold column.";
>
>
> Note the error in the unfolded version.  I think disallowing
> whitespace characters on the fold column in the source artwork is
> overly limiting, spaces being so commonly used.   The only way I
> can think to preserve the space character is to have a fixed
> indent rule (e.g., some hardcoded column number, or always use
> the same indent as previous line, or the same as the previous
> line plus some fixed offset).  Given a clear rule, the unfolding
> alg can chomp just the right amount of whitespace out, leaving
> the any remaining whitespace, so the round-trip result is loss-less.
There other ways to solve this, at a slight increase in complexity.

E.g. You could use two marker characters, e.g. as below, where 
everything between and including the two '\' characters is stripped.  
Simple folding tools could just put the second '\' at the beginning of 
the next line, or at a fixed column,  more sophisticated tools could put 
more effort into making it more readable, but still preserve the ability 
to get the exact source back out again.

           |     |  +--rw default?                 empty
           |     +--:(untagged)
           |     |  +--rw untagged?                empty
           |     +--:(dot1q-priority-tagged)
           |     |  +--rw dot1q-priority-tagged
           |     |     +--rw tag-type?   dot1q-types:dot1q-\
                                                   \tag-type
           |     +--:(dot1q-vlan-tagged)
           |        +--rw dot1q-vlan-tagged


Thanks,
Rob


>
>> Rob
> Kent // contributor
>
>
>


From nobody Thu Jun 28 12:16:21 2018
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Reviewer: Joel Halpern
Review result: Almost Ready

I am the assigned Gen-ART reviewer for this draft. The General Area
Review Team (Gen-ART) reviews all IETF documents being processed
by the IESG for the IETF Chair.  Please treat these comments just
like any other last call comments.

For more information, please see the FAQ at

.

Document: draft-ietf-netmod-schema-mount-10
Reviewer: Joel Halpern
Review Date: 2018-06-28
IETF LC End Date: 2018-06-29
IESG Telechat date: Not scheduled for a telechat

Summary: This document is almost ready for publication as a Proposed Standards.
    I believe that the working group has gotten too close to the work, and
    failed to notice that important explanations that they understand do not
    actually appear in the document.

Major issues:
     There is no explanation in the document as to who controls mounting and
     how it is specified.  From this, I infer that the intention is that the
     server knows what is to be mounted at specific mount points, and does so. 
      The Client does not tell the server to mount specific schemas in specific
     places.  Ok.  Say so.  And explain that the server knows this by means
     external to the YANG modules.  The text explicitly states that the case
     where the mount point definition selects the data model to be mounted is
     NOT supported by this document.

    There is some ambiguity, quite possibly only in this reader, as to what a
    client finds when it does a NETCONF Get at or below the mount point.  I had
    assumed originally that it would find structure defined by the schema that
    is mounted there, as defined by the schema-mount container.  However, the
    Schema-mount definition itself states that what is found at the mount point
    is an instance of YANG library.   Given that this lefft me completely
    confused, please add some explanatory text?

Minor issues:
    N/A

Nits/editorial comments:
    The introduction, in its third paragraph refers to the "source or target
    YANG module" seeming to use both the term source and the term target to
    refer to the module with the uses or augments statement.  Even if other
    YANG documents use both terms, this is a confusing construction.



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From: Kent Watsen 
To: Robert Wilton , Qin Wu , "netmod@ietf.org" 
Thread-Topic: [netmod] Call for adoption request of draft-kwatsen-netmod-artwork-folding-04
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To: kwatsen@juniper.net
Cc: rharolde@umich.edu, netmod@ietf.org, rwilton=40cisco.com@dmarc.ietf.org
From: Martin Bjorklund 
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Kent Watsen  wrote:
> =

> =

> >>But with variable placement of the '\' character you can do:
> >>
> >>=A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 This very long line happens to have a space charact=
er \
> >>=A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 immediately after the fold column.";
> >>
> =

> This would not work, since the line is one character too long
> =

> =

> >> or
> >>
> >>=A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 This very long line happens to have a space \
> >>=A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 character immediately after the fold column.";
> =

> This is legal, but is in the realm of manual-folding, or "semi-manual=

> folding", for what you do with your preprocessing-scripts.
> =

> =

> >>so I'm not sure that disallowing space at the fold column is a
> >> problem.
> >>
> >> Note that even with this, your original "one-liner sed" still prod=
uces
> >> valid results, so if you just want a simple folding program you ca=
n
> >> use that.
> =

> True.  We could define a feature-rich format, for which the existing
> script only-supports a lowest common denominator.  From a folding
> perspective, that might be okay, but from an unfolding perspective,
> it could not be used to unfold any folded-artwork, and so I'd push
> to fix the script to unfold any input.
> =

> =

> >> The problem is that this does not work in cases where there are a =

> >> lot of spaces - particularly where there are more than 'line-lengt=
h'
> >> spaces in a row, in the middle of the line.
> =

> Right, so if the input was something like an empty table row:
> =

>        +------------------+------------------+-----------------+-----=
-etc.
>        |                  |                  |                 |
> =

> Or a snippet of a UML diagram where the line is a 100% blank:
> =

>                                                                      =
 etc.
> =

> Allowing arbitrary per-line indent makes decoding these cases ambiguo=
us.

Yes, but is this really a problem?  I don't think it would be a good
idea to take a very width ascii-table and fold it like this - the
point of having a ascii table is to make the data easy to read; that
won't be the case if the table is folded.

IMO the problem we want to solve is folding when there is no
alternative.  E.g., XML or JSON snippets with long identifier names,
source code snippets etc.



/martin



> =

> =

> =

> If the goal is to have a pair or rules like:
> =

>   1. Any line ending with "\\n" is considered folded, regardless of t=
he column.
>   2. The original/source artwork MUST NOT have any lines ending with =
'\' char.
> =

> which would support your semi-manual folding scripts, I think it is p=
ossible
> (TBD), but it would entail having a fixed indent rule (e.g., some har=
dcoded
> column number, or always use the same indent as previous line, or alw=
ays use
> the same indent as the previous line plus some fixed offset).  Given =
a clear
> rule, the unfolding alg can chomp just the right amount of whitespace=
 out,
> leaving any remaining whitespace, for a loss-less decode.
> =

> Alternatively, we can have arbitrary per-line indent, but then we nee=
d to =

> have a fixed fold-column, or assert that the source artwork has no wh=
itespace
> where the fold begins, which means blank lines could never be support=
ed.  This
> was mentioned above also.
> =

> =

> PS: Regarding Rob's desire for 120-char line lengths, I forgot to men=
tion
> before that the current I-D doesn't specify a maximum.  It only says =
that
> 69 is the default, and 53 is the minimum, so 120 is fine.
> =

> =

> Kent // contributor
> =

> =

> =


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Subject: Re: [netmod] Call for adoption request of draft-kwatsen-netmod-artwork-folding-04
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On 29/06/2018 00:03, Kent Watsen wrote:
>
> Hi Robert,
>
>>>> 2) The proposed solution always left indents the wrapped line. Often for
>>>> artwork (e.g. a YANG tree diagram), where whitespace is not significant,
>>>> and the wrapping is relatively minor, then right indenting the wrapped
>>>> line can make the results look more visually readable.
>>> The placement of the indents in the example above would be impossible
>>> to automate - they're too artsy ;)
>> They are just right indented, so it is pretty easy to figure out?  E.g.
>> start at  (Max line length - number of wrapped chars)
> My bad, I didn't catch that they were right-indented before.  Hmmmm,
> interesting idea, worth keeping in mind.  I see how it produces good
> results sometimes, but it also seems like it could produce some results
> that are not as good as indenting to the first whitespace character
> from the previous line.
Sure, that decision on how to intend the wrapped line could be down to 
the tool that is performing the folding, perhaps predicated by user 
input or the type of diagram that is being folded.

E.g. I agreed with Martin's comments that it is better to specify the 
required behavior rather than describe a specific algorithm on how it is 
constructed.

>
>
>
>
>>> Note the error in the unfolded version.  I think disallowing
>>> whitespace characters on the fold column in the source artwork is
>>> overly limiting, spaces being so commonly used.   The only way I
>>> can think to preserve the space character is to have a fixed
>>> indent rule (e.g., some hardcoded column number, or always use
>>> the same indent as previous line, or the same as the previous
>>> line plus some fixed offset).  Given a clear rule, the unfolding
>>> alg can chomp just the right amount of whitespace out, leaving
>>> the any remaining whitespace, so the round-trip result is loss-less.
>> There other ways to solve this, at a slight increase in complexity.
>>
>> E.g. You could use two marker characters, e.g. as below, where
>> everything between and including the two '\' characters is stripped.
>> Simple folding tools could just put the second '\' at the beginning of
>> the next line, or at a fixed column,  more sophisticated tools could put
>> more effort into making it more readable, but still preserve the ability
>> to get the exact source back out again.
>>
>>            |     |  +--rw default?                 empty
>>            |     +--:(untagged)
>>            |     |  +--rw untagged?                empty
>>            |     +--:(dot1q-priority-tagged)
>>            |     |  +--rw dot1q-priority-tagged
>>            |     |     +--rw tag-type?   dot1q-types:dot1q-\
>>                                                    \tag-type
>>            |     +--:(dot1q-vlan-tagged)
>>            |        +--rw dot1q-vlan-tagged
> Clever!  Having both seems to resolve many issues, and it might be within
> reach of a `sed` one-liner again.  The only issue might be readability,
> since it's so different than the time-aged convention...
Only one thin character different ;-)

Perhaps it could be the start of a new convention that is a bit more 
flexible, explicit, and robust ...

Rob

>
>
>> Rob
> Kent // contributor
>
>
>


From nobody Fri Jun 29 02:53:45 2018
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Date: Fri, 29 Jun 2018 11:53:26 +0200 (CEST)
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Subject: Re: [netmod] Genart last call review of draft-ietf-netmod-schema-mount-10
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Hi,

Thank you for your review!  Comments inline.


Joel Halpern  wrote:
> Reviewer: Joel Halpern
> Review result: Almost Ready
> 
> I am the assigned Gen-ART reviewer for this draft. The General Area
> Review Team (Gen-ART) reviews all IETF documents being processed
> by the IESG for the IETF Chair.  Please treat these comments just
> like any other last call comments.
> 
> For more information, please see the FAQ at
> 
> .
> 
> Document: draft-ietf-netmod-schema-mount-10
> Reviewer: Joel Halpern
> Review Date: 2018-06-28
> IETF LC End Date: 2018-06-29
> IESG Telechat date: Not scheduled for a telechat
> 
> Summary: This document is almost ready for publication as a Proposed Standards.
>     I believe that the working group has gotten too close to the work, and
>     failed to notice that important explanations that they understand do not
>     actually appear in the document.
> 
> Major issues:
>      There is no explanation in the document as to who controls mounting and
>      how it is specified.  From this, I infer that the intention is that the
>      server knows what is to be mounted at specific mount points, and does so. 
>       The Client does not tell the server to mount specific schemas in specific
>      places.  Ok.  Say so.  And explain that the server knows this by means
>      external to the YANG modules.  The text explicitly states that the case
>      where the mount point definition selects the data model to be mounted is
>      NOT supported by this document.

The document has the following text, which was supposed to cover this
case:

   Schema mount applies to the data model, and specifically does not
   assume anything about the source of instance data for the mounted
   schemas.  It may be implemented using the same instrumentation as the
   rest of the system, or it may be implemented by querying some other
   system.  Future specifications may define mechanisms to control or
   monitor the implementation of specific mount points.

But howabout we add a new paragraph after this:

   How and when specific mount points are instantiated by the server
   is out of scope for this document.  Such mechanisms may be defined
   in future specifications.

>     There is some ambiguity, quite possibly only in this reader, as to what a
>     client finds when it does a NETCONF Get at or below the mount point.  I had
>     assumed originally that it would find structure defined by the schema that
>     is mounted there, as defined by the schema-mount container.

This is correct.

>     However, the
>     Schema-mount definition itself states that what is found at the mount point
>     is an instance of YANG library.

Hmm, do you mean the text in the YANG module:

               "This node indicates that the server has mounted
                'ietf-yang-library' at the mount point, and its
                instantiation provides the information about the mounted
                schema.

If so, maybe we can clarify by saying

               "This node indicates that the server has mounted
                at least the module 'ietf-yang-library' at the mount
                point, and its
                instantiation provides the information about the mounted
                schema.


> Given that this lefft me completely
>     confused, please add some explanatory text?
> 
> Minor issues:
>     N/A
> 
> Nits/editorial comments:
>     The introduction, in its third paragraph refers to the "source or target
>     YANG module" seeming to use both the term source and the term target to
>     refer to the module with the uses or augments statement.  Even if other
>     YANG documents use both terms, this is a confusing construction.

How about:

OLD:

   With both mechanisms, the source or target YANG module explicitly
   defines the exact location in the schema tree where the new nodes are
   placed.

NEW:

   With both mechanisms, the YANG module with the "uses" or "augemnt"
   statement explicitly defines the exact location in the schema tree
   where the new nodes are placed.


/martin


From nobody Fri Jun 29 06:41:32 2018
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From nobody Fri Jun 29 07:07:48 2018
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From: Mehmet Ersue 
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Subject: [netmod] Opsdir last call review of draft-ietf-netmod-schema-mount-10
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Reviewer: Mehmet Ersue
Review result: Has Nits

I have reviewed this document as part of the Operational directorate's ongoing
effort to review all IETF documents being processed by the IESG.  These
comments were written with the intent of improving the operational aspects of
the IETF drafts. Comments that are not addressed in last call may be included
in AD reviews during the IESG review.  Document editors and WG chairs should
treat these comments just like any other last call comments.

Intended status: Standards Track
Current IESG state: Waiting for Writeup
IANA review state: Not OK / Expert review needed (see
https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-netmod-schema-mount/history/)

Summary:
The document defines a mechanism to add the schema trees defined by a set of
YANG modules onto a mount point defined in the schema tree in some YANG modules.

I think the document is well-written and can be published after addressing last
issues indicated by different reviews.

A few nits below:

- In 2.  Terminology and Notation
for both "system-controlled interface" and "YANG library checksum":
s/are not/is not/

- In 2.1.  Glossary of New Terms
As there are indeed terms which are not new I would suggest to change the
section title to: "Glossary of Used Terms". One can even merge section 2 and
section 2.1.

- As one of the commenters indicated, the words "schema mount" are often used
casually and without an article. Though what the author means is "the schema
mount mechanism" which is specifically defined in this document.

Regards,
Mehmet


From nobody Fri Jun 29 12:39:37 2018
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To: mersue@gmail.com
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From: Martin Bjorklund 
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Hi,

Thank you for this review, comments inline.

Mehmet Ersue  wrote:
> Reviewer: Mehmet Ersue
> Review result: Has Nits
> 
> I have reviewed this document as part of the Operational directorate's ongoing
> effort to review all IETF documents being processed by the IESG.  These
> comments were written with the intent of improving the operational aspects of
> the IETF drafts. Comments that are not addressed in last call may be included
> in AD reviews during the IESG review.  Document editors and WG chairs should
> treat these comments just like any other last call comments.
> 
> Intended status: Standards Track
> Current IESG state: Waiting for Writeup
> IANA review state: Not OK / Expert review needed (see
> https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-netmod-schema-mount/history/)
> 
> Summary:
> The document defines a mechanism to add the schema trees defined by a set of
> YANG modules onto a mount point defined in the schema tree in some YANG modules.
> 
> I think the document is well-written and can be published after addressing last
> issues indicated by different reviews.
> 
> A few nits below:
> 
> - In 2.  Terminology and Notation
> for both "system-controlled interface" and "YANG library checksum":
> s/are not/is not/

Fixed, thanks.

> - In 2.1.  Glossary of New Terms
> As there are indeed terms which are not new I would suggest to change the
> section title to: "Glossary of Used Terms". One can even merge section 2 and
> section 2.1.

Ok.  I suggest we remove 2.1 and instead add:

   The following additional terms are used within this document:


> - As one of the commenters indicated, the words "schema mount" are often used
> casually and without an article. Though what the author means is "the schema
> mount mechanism" which is specifically defined in this document.

In the Introduction, the document says:

  This document introduces a new mechanism, denoted as schema
  mount, that allows for mounting one data model [...]

so I wonder if the solution to both these problem is to define "schema
mount" as a term in 2.1, instead of replacing "schema mount" with "the
schema mount mechanism" in the whole document?


/martin


From nobody Sat Jun 30 13:46:45 2018
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From: "Mehmet Ersue" 
To: "'Martin Bjorklund'" 
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Thanks. See below.

Cheers,
Mehmet

> -----Original Message-----
> From: Martin Bjorklund 
> Sent: Friday, June 29, 2018 8:40 PM
...
> > - In 2.1.  Glossary of New Terms
> > As there are indeed terms which are not new I would suggest to change
> > the section title to: "Glossary of Used Terms". One can even merge
> > section 2 and section 2.1.
> 
> Ok.  I suggest we remove 2.1 and instead add:
> 
>    The following additional terms are used within this document:
Sounds good.
 
> 
> > - As one of the commenters indicated, the words "schema mount" are
> > often used casually and without an article. Though what the author
> > means is "the schema mount mechanism" which is specifically defined in
> this document.
> 
> In the Introduction, the document says:
> 
>   This document introduces a new mechanism, denoted as schema
>   mount, that allows for mounting one data model [...]
> 
> so I wonder if the solution to both these problem is to define "schema
> mount" as a term in 2.1, instead of replacing "schema mount" with "the
> schema mount mechanism" in the whole document?
This is fine. To qualify the specific new term I would like to suggest to
use an article in appropriate cases.

> 
> /martin