From nobody Wed May 1 01:55:46 2019 Return-Path: X-Original-To: netmod@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: netmod@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 33CB6120074 for ; Wed, 1 May 2019 01:55:45 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -4.301 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-4.301 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-2.3, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (1024-bit key) header.d=swm.pp.se Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id ZtYtgmq06OVq for ; Wed, 1 May 2019 01:55:42 -0700 (PDT) Received: from uplift.swm.pp.se (ipv6.swm.pp.se [IPv6:2a00:801::f]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 49179120041 for ; Wed, 1 May 2019 01:55:41 -0700 (PDT) Received: by uplift.swm.pp.se (Postfix, from userid 501) id 809D8AF; Wed, 1 May 2019 10:55:38 +0200 (CEST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/simple; d=swm.pp.se; s=mail; t=1556700938; bh=vdKZoq6fhvu+5YBvKHaBm8PbA+MqVBiR9XzAR4HclqA=; h=Date:From:To:cc:Subject:In-Reply-To:References:From; b=LZSOTG2r98r9w+5QnS/eNJ5cXQWX7p05QZeRbmmuhFudq91dPaV+dCjgcw6fJTHcV iQm0+NzT14lyDdYM3Gjy9831hWpG9ltmSyzY8Ut4AlHZ6IwYcpwwJd8FkFLt+nhJLi VNaGlC/ETCewYuKQ5XpmEAsgoqrGx3e4A4wE8jTU= Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by uplift.swm.pp.se (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7D66C9F; Wed, 1 May 2019 10:55:38 +0200 (CEST) Date: Wed, 1 May 2019 10:55:38 +0200 (CEST) From: Mikael Abrahamsson To: Juergen Schoenwaelder cc: "Rob Wilton (rwilton)" , "netmod@ietf.org" In-Reply-To: <20190430090905.qsa3r4dwauilsxur@anna.jacobs.jacobs-university.de> Message-ID: References: <20190429103451.yink4bdvvmlh7ohe@anna.jacobs.jacobs-university.de> <20190429134615.f32zkbia6fqwk3to@anna.jacobs.jacobs-university.de> <0c4265d31adbf208a680f76216cc4bc42c766eae.camel@nic.cz> <959ed1a8092f4798ac0b923384962049@XCH-RCD-007.cisco.com> <20190429153643.oxfcq7ze6ttdihb4@anna.jacobs.jacobs-university.de> <20190430061737.vvxghxyacd57k73i@anna.jacobs.jacobs-university.de> <20190430090905.qsa3r4dwauilsxur@anna.jacobs.jacobs-university.de> User-Agent: Alpine 2.20 (DEB 67 2015-01-07) Organization: People's Front Against WWW MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed Archived-At: Subject: Re: [netmod] 6021 ipv4-prefix X-BeenThere: netmod@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: NETMOD WG list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 01 May 2019 08:55:45 -0000 On Tue, 30 Apr 2019, Juergen Schoenwaelder wrote: > On Tue, Apr 30, 2019 at 10:46:34AM +0200, Mikael Abrahamsson wrote: >> On Tue, 30 Apr 2019, Juergen Schoenwaelder wrote: >> >>> I think we go in circles in this thread and I will stop explaining >>> things again and again. I suggest people look at the next revision >>> and if anything remains unclear, people can send concrete edit >>> proposals. >> >> You don't have to explain it. Let me try in a different way. >> >> https://tools.ietf.org/html/rfc7950#section-9.1 >> >> "For most types, there is a single canonical representation of the >> type's values." >> >> Is it generally ok that the canonical value potentially represents a >> different bit field/value than what the client sent? > > Yes. I explained that the canonicalization of IPv6 addresses is much > more involved than clearing some unused bits in an IPv6 prefix. The canonicalization of IPv6 addresses doesn't change the resulting 128 bit pattern. Canonicalization of IPv6-prefix *does* change the bit pattern. Also, it doesn't say in https://tools.ietf.org/html/rfc7950#section-9.1 whether the server should accept bit-fields that do not adhere to the canonical representation or not. So while you seem to think I am not reading your text, it seems to me you're not reading what I am saying either. You're not responding to the points I am trying to make anyway. https://tools.ietf.org/html/rfc7950#section-9.1 This talks about *values*. If you drop bits in IPv6-prefix, then it's not the same *value* anymore. So https://tools.ietf.org/html/rfc7950#section-9.1 should be changed in future revisions to avoid confusion. > We are not 'fixing' anything. The canonical format is nothing new. The > text aims at explaining things better. Yes, there are many more types > that have a canonical representation. Read the other email messages in > this thread or simply search for 'canonical' in the type definitions. > > I think the descriptions are actually all quite clear (but then I am > biased of course). There are lots of implications that are *not* clear in https://tools.ietf.org/html/rfc7950#section-9.1. -- Mikael Abrahamsson email: swmike@swm.pp.se From nobody Wed May 1 01:58:51 2019 Return-Path: X-Original-To: netmod@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: netmod@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id D7C841200B2 for ; Wed, 1 May 2019 01:58:49 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -4.3 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-4.3 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, LOTS_OF_MONEY=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-2.3, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (1024-bit key) header.d=swm.pp.se Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id KGxMxNyCRsk8 for ; Wed, 1 May 2019 01:58:48 -0700 (PDT) Received: from uplift.swm.pp.se (swm.pp.se [212.247.200.143]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 2EF12120041 for ; Wed, 1 May 2019 01:58:48 -0700 (PDT) Received: by uplift.swm.pp.se (Postfix, from userid 501) id 1D8DBAF; Wed, 1 May 2019 10:58:46 +0200 (CEST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/simple; d=swm.pp.se; s=mail; t=1556701126; bh=+zwLdaS1vU676v6OZS2o3zQnx11iTbG3v+R09eeQX7I=; h=Date:From:To:cc:Subject:In-Reply-To:References:From; b=fM/Y/hp6DuRGslaR6tEZb+HRapNzkOVlqP3u9UTlupuwsbD4hYbzRjOn3ds2RcerM M5rt9ERfCBtuoshZ5sp3VQpt5LdI5ZqyhTrroCiy36vIL4AHEK4Ciut0p6cWTp9E2E KU7igE7WAb9Y9mlzeLEkBjs05UFf5ugZnYyWvbvk= Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by uplift.swm.pp.se (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1A3999F; Wed, 1 May 2019 10:58:46 +0200 (CEST) Date: Wed, 1 May 2019 10:58:46 +0200 (CEST) From: Mikael Abrahamsson To: Randy Presuhn cc: netmod@ietf.org In-Reply-To: <18711798-25e6-f4f2-8a41-a003c18037c6@alumni.stanford.edu> Message-ID: References: <20190429100213.vukmmbdsz5zlw6w5@anna.jacobs.jacobs-university.de> <20190429103451.yink4bdvvmlh7ohe@anna.jacobs.jacobs-university.de> <20190429134615.f32zkbia6fqwk3to@anna.jacobs.jacobs-university.de> <0c4265d31adbf208a680f76216cc4bc42c766eae.camel@nic.cz> <959ed1a8092f4798ac0b923384962049@XCH-RCD-007.cisco.com> <20190429153643.oxfcq7ze6ttdihb4@anna.jacobs.jacobs-university.de> <20190430061737.vvxghxyacd57k73i@anna.jacobs.jacobs-university.de> <18711798-25e6-f4f2-8a41-a003c18037c6@alumni.stanford.edu> User-Agent: Alpine 2.20 (DEB 67 2015-01-07) Organization: People's Front Against WWW MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed Archived-At: Subject: Re: [netmod] 6021 ipv4-prefix X-BeenThere: netmod@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: NETMOD WG list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 01 May 2019 08:58:50 -0000 On Tue, 30 Apr 2019, Randy Presuhn wrote: > Hi - > > On 4/30/2019 1:46 AM, Mikael Abrahamsson wrote: > .... >> Is it generally ok that the canonical value potentially represents a >> different bit field/value than what the client sent? > .... > > The *value* represented is the same. The sequences of bytes used > to represent that value may be different. Some information sent No. 2001:db8::/64 and 2001:db8::1/64 isn't the same *value*. These are not the same bits set. > by the client may be extraneous to the *value*. Consider the case > of currency values entered into some application. A robust application > won't care whether I enter $1,234,567.89 or 1234567.89 and if it > subsequently chooses to display it as "1.234.567,89 USD" I can't > complain that the value is different, even though several bytes of > my input have clearly been discarded. That's a completely different example. In your example the value is the same, in mine (ipv6-prefix) it isn't. > This situation is hardly unique to netconf. I recall coding for such > situations forty years ago. It has been a fact of life throughout the > history of ASN.1 and especially BER. It will continue to be a > consideration at least as long as folks feel the need to support "human > readable" representations on input. Frankly, I was surprised that > anyone was surprised by this. I have no problem understanding the canonicalization of IPv6 address, because the underlying value doesn't change by canonicalizating it. This is not the case with canonicalizating IPv6-prefix, where the resulting 128 bit field *changes* when you canonicalize it. -- Mikael Abrahamsson email: swmike@swm.pp.se From nobody Wed May 1 04:17:23 2019 Return-Path: X-Original-To: netmod@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: netmod@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 13693120103 for ; Wed, 1 May 2019 04:17:22 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.9 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.9 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id O4xSZr50NSy1 for ; Wed, 1 May 2019 04:17:19 -0700 (PDT) Received: from atlas5.jacobs-university.de (atlas5.jacobs-university.de [212.201.44.20]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher AECDH-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 894131200E3 for ; Wed, 1 May 2019 04:17:19 -0700 (PDT) Received: from localhost (demetrius5.irc-it.jacobs-university.de [10.70.0.222]) by atlas5.jacobs-university.de (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3CF8D6B6; Wed, 1 May 2019 13:17:17 +0200 (CEST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at jacobs-university.de Received: from atlas5.jacobs-university.de ([10.70.0.217]) by localhost (demetrius5.jacobs-university.de [10.70.0.222]) (amavisd-new, port 10032) with ESMTP id d4XSdWpXHjfb; Wed, 1 May 2019 13:17:17 +0200 (CEST) Received: from hermes.jacobs-university.de (hermes.jacobs-university.de [212.201.44.23]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (Client CN "hermes.jacobs-university.de", Issuer "Jacobs University CA - G01" (verified OK)) by atlas5.jacobs-university.de (Postfix) with ESMTPS; Wed, 1 May 2019 13:17:17 +0200 (CEST) Received: from localhost (demetrius5.irc-it.jacobs-university.de [10.70.0.222]) by hermes.jacobs-university.de (Postfix) with ESMTP id 26882200E0; Wed, 1 May 2019 13:17:17 +0200 (CEST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at jacobs-university.de Received: from hermes.jacobs-university.de ([212.201.44.23]) by localhost (demetrius5.jacobs-university.de [10.70.0.222]) (amavisd-new, port 10028) with ESMTP id BqS1bqRbsNZa; Wed, 1 May 2019 13:17:16 +0200 (CEST) Received: from exchange.jacobs-university.de (sxchmb03.jacobs.jacobs-university.de [10.70.0.155]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (Client CN "exchange.jacobs-university.de", Issuer "DFN-Verein Global Issuing CA" (verified OK)) by hermes.jacobs-university.de (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 882F4200DE; Wed, 1 May 2019 13:17:16 +0200 (CEST) Received: from anna.localdomain (10.50.218.117) by sxchmb03.jacobs.jacobs-university.de (10.70.0.155) with Microsoft SMTP Server (version=TLS1_2, cipher=TLS_ECDHE_RSA_WITH_AES_256_GCM_SHA384) id 15.1.1713.5; Wed, 1 May 2019 13:17:15 +0200 Received: by anna.localdomain (Postfix, from userid 501) id 123993008B781E; Wed, 1 May 2019 13:17:14 +0200 (CEST) Date: Wed, 1 May 2019 13:17:12 +0200 From: Juergen Schoenwaelder To: Mikael Abrahamsson CC: "Rob Wilton (rwilton)" , "netmod@ietf.org" Message-ID: <20190501111712.347bpz26br6ox3jp@anna.jacobs.jacobs-university.de> Reply-To: Juergen Schoenwaelder Mail-Followup-To: Mikael Abrahamsson , "Rob Wilton (rwilton)" , "netmod@ietf.org" References: <20190429134615.f32zkbia6fqwk3to@anna.jacobs.jacobs-university.de> <0c4265d31adbf208a680f76216cc4bc42c766eae.camel@nic.cz> <959ed1a8092f4798ac0b923384962049@XCH-RCD-007.cisco.com> <20190429153643.oxfcq7ze6ttdihb4@anna.jacobs.jacobs-university.de> <20190430061737.vvxghxyacd57k73i@anna.jacobs.jacobs-university.de> <20190430090905.qsa3r4dwauilsxur@anna.jacobs.jacobs-university.de> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: User-Agent: NeoMutt/20180716 X-ClientProxiedBy: SXCHMB01.jacobs.jacobs-university.de (10.70.0.120) To sxchmb03.jacobs.jacobs-university.de (10.70.0.155) Archived-At: Subject: Re: [netmod] 6021 ipv4-prefix X-BeenThere: netmod@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: NETMOD WG list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 01 May 2019 11:17:22 -0000 On Wed, May 01, 2019 at 10:55:38AM +0200, Mikael Abrahamsson wrote: > > So while you seem to think I am not reading your text, it seems to me you're > not reading what I am saying either. You're not responding to the points I > am trying to make anyway. > > https://tools.ietf.org/html/rfc7950#section-9.1 > > This talks about *values*. If you drop bits in IPv6-prefix, then it's not > the same *value* anymore. I personally do take the standpoint that irrelevant bits do not matter for the value of a prefix, i.e., 192.168.0.1/24 and 192.168.0.0/24 are two different representations for the same prefix. You seem to take the standpoint that 192.168.0.1/24 and 192.168.0.0/24 are different prefixes since bits that are irrelevant do differ. Apparently there are different views that people have concerning prefixes. I think I have seen the following three alternatives: a) non-prefix bits that are set to one are illegal in a prefix b) non-prefix bits are irrelevant but they need to be preserved c) non-prefix bits are irrelevant, ignore them and the canonical representation has non-prefix bits set to zero The RFC 6991 definitions do c). If there is consensus that c) is wrong, we need to deprecate the definitions and create new ones after finding consensus on either b) or a). System/kernel interfaces seem to show different behaviours. My Linux box seems to do a), my MacOS box seems to do c). The system/kernel interfaces likely all do the same if all non-prefix bits are zero, i.e., when the system receives data in the canonical format. Option b) seems to be the most expensive to implement (your server may have to clear non-prefix bits before pushing the prefix into the kernel and it needs to map data received from the kernel back to a prefix that has unused bits preserved in the datastore). Hence, for me the choice is between a) and c) and given that we have c) already defined for years, my first preference is to just keep things as they are. /js -- Juergen Schoenwaelder Jacobs University Bremen gGmbH Phone: +49 421 200 3587 Campus Ring 1 | 28759 Bremen | Germany Fax: +49 421 200 3103 From nobody Wed May 1 06:12:55 2019 Return-Path: X-Original-To: netmod@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: netmod@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0E27A120128 for ; Wed, 1 May 2019 06:12:53 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -4.301 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-4.301 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-2.3, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (1024-bit key) header.d=swm.pp.se Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id XL3lXybrwysw for ; Wed, 1 May 2019 06:12:50 -0700 (PDT) Received: from uplift.swm.pp.se (ipv6.swm.pp.se [IPv6:2a00:801::f]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 335461200E3 for ; Wed, 1 May 2019 06:12:50 -0700 (PDT) Received: by uplift.swm.pp.se (Postfix, from userid 501) id 57CE7AF; Wed, 1 May 2019 15:12:47 +0200 (CEST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/simple; d=swm.pp.se; s=mail; t=1556716367; bh=p4hZuR5uCT05xv3t7szuo8BWgbYhHdTU2lMbHIv9S9I=; h=Date:From:To:cc:Subject:In-Reply-To:References:From; b=yfxHfKGnkL2F9XmrrdPO599OiGm8MKZJDWNGLsD3ThG/uNU0j/FLEZDL2wHKQdqQS wHTHPAEbPCxnI/pZr5YkyAJse09Rj1dLyfmUq3ajNq0emPgPqg4ztwPcE394XCGIUi a+zNuwP8CA2U6wSE4lhSfLC2N+rRH/oS6kuTk+/c= Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by uplift.swm.pp.se (Postfix) with ESMTP id 55A059F; Wed, 1 May 2019 15:12:47 +0200 (CEST) Date: Wed, 1 May 2019 15:12:47 +0200 (CEST) From: Mikael Abrahamsson To: Juergen Schoenwaelder cc: "Rob Wilton (rwilton)" , "netmod@ietf.org" In-Reply-To: <20190501111712.347bpz26br6ox3jp@anna.jacobs.jacobs-university.de> Message-ID: References: <20190429134615.f32zkbia6fqwk3to@anna.jacobs.jacobs-university.de> <0c4265d31adbf208a680f76216cc4bc42c766eae.camel@nic.cz> <959ed1a8092f4798ac0b923384962049@XCH-RCD-007.cisco.com> <20190429153643.oxfcq7ze6ttdihb4@anna.jacobs.jacobs-university.de> <20190430061737.vvxghxyacd57k73i@anna.jacobs.jacobs-university.de> <20190430090905.qsa3r4dwauilsxur@anna.jacobs.jacobs-university.de> <20190501111712.347bpz26br6ox3jp@anna.jacobs.jacobs-university.de> User-Agent: Alpine 2.20 (DEB 67 2015-01-07) Organization: People's Front Against WWW MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed Archived-At: Subject: Re: [netmod] 6021 ipv4-prefix X-BeenThere: netmod@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: NETMOD WG list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 01 May 2019 13:12:53 -0000 On Wed, 1 May 2019, Juergen Schoenwaelder wrote: > I personally do take the standpoint that irrelevant bits do not matter > for the value of a prefix, i.e., 192.168.0.1/24 and 192.168.0.0/24 are > two different representations for the same prefix. You seem to take > the standpoint that 192.168.0.1/24 and 192.168.0.0/24 are different > prefixes since bits that are irrelevant do differ. No, I am saying this is underspecified or actually wrongly specified in the current documents + proposed text regarding what canonical format is and isn't, and how the server and clients handle this. I am fine with the current proposed text to specify this for ipv6-prefix, but I am also pointing out that I think when YANG 1.2 is specced, the definition for "canonical format" needs more/changed text. > Apparently there are different views that people have concerning > prefixes. I think I have seen the following three alternatives: > > a) non-prefix bits that are set to one are illegal in a prefix > b) non-prefix bits are irrelevant but they need to be preserved > c) non-prefix bits are irrelevant, ignore them and the canonical > representation has non-prefix bits set to zero > > The RFC 6991 definitions do c). If there is consensus that c) is > wrong, we need to deprecate the definitions and create new ones after > finding consensus on either b) or a). I am fine with c), but I am also saying I disagree with your view that this this behaviour has been specified "since the beginning". This might have been obvious to you from the beginning, but it's not wrotten down properly (at least I haven't seen text that makes me clearly understand the expected behaviour). I think the text specifying what "canonical format is" referring to "same *value*" is wrong. +17 and 17 is the same integer, 192.168.0.1/24 and 192.168.0.0/24 are not the same *value*. It's misleading to refer to the canonical form having the *same* *value* when we're throwing away information. If you write 2001:db8:0:1 as 2001:db8::1 then you're compressing the text form without throwing away actual information. It's the *same value* buth *different text representation*. 2001:db8::/64 and 2001:db8::1/64 is *not the same value*. I am fine with us continuing with c) above, I have long stopped arguing for anything else. What I am though saying is that I want https://tools.ietf.org/html/rfc7950#section-9.1 (or elsewhere) to have better text on this matter when the documents are revved next time. -- Mikael Abrahamsson email: swmike@swm.pp.se From nobody Wed May 1 06:18:29 2019 Return-Path: X-Original-To: netmod@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: netmod@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9702912012F for ; Wed, 1 May 2019 06:18:27 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -14.502 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-14.502 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIMWL_WL_MED=-0.001, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_HI=-5, SPF_PASS=-0.001, USER_IN_DEF_DKIM_WL=-7.5] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (1024-bit key) header.d=cisco.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id YaUDPpV6fwfb for ; 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d="scan'208";a="553930648" Received: from rcdn-core-6.cisco.com ([173.37.93.157]) by rcdn-iport-6.cisco.com with ESMTP/TLS/DHE-RSA-SEED-SHA; 01 May 2019 13:18:24 +0000 Received: from XCH-RCD-010.cisco.com (xch-rcd-010.cisco.com [173.37.102.20]) by rcdn-core-6.cisco.com (8.15.2/8.15.2) with ESMTPS id x41DINsA018987 (version=TLSv1.2 cipher=AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Wed, 1 May 2019 13:18:24 GMT Received: from xch-rcd-007.cisco.com (173.37.102.17) by XCH-RCD-010.cisco.com (173.37.102.20) with Microsoft SMTP Server (TLS) id 15.0.1473.3; Wed, 1 May 2019 08:18:22 -0500 Received: from xch-rcd-007.cisco.com ([173.37.102.17]) by XCH-RCD-007.cisco.com ([173.37.102.17]) with mapi id 15.00.1473.003; Wed, 1 May 2019 08:18:23 -0500 From: "Rob Wilton (rwilton)" To: Mikael Abrahamsson , Juergen Schoenwaelder CC: "netmod@ietf.org" Thread-Topic: [netmod] 6021 ipv4-prefix Thread-Index: AdT0l4zGpLjvUofYRmmSWqlDWwoAHABSPgGAAAHDNYAAA12WgAABgE0AAAD0FQAAAKy0gAF1SI2AAAERvAAAFIrFgAAG4xuAAADAhYAACALZAAAA/vaAAAK/LwAAATq3AAB768IgAAtOeIAACmVD4P//tfSAgABTU/D//+IngIAAUdRQ//+41wCAAFEEMP//wy6AABznDYAAAdzWgAAFM7gAAADJUIAAMdJaAAAE8bQAAAQJZoAACnCAQA== Date: Wed, 1 May 2019 13:18:23 +0000 Message-ID: <7865fdb6ecd14d3db76be98e70d4e8f7@XCH-RCD-007.cisco.com> References: <20190429134615.f32zkbia6fqwk3to@anna.jacobs.jacobs-university.de> <0c4265d31adbf208a680f76216cc4bc42c766eae.camel@nic.cz> <959ed1a8092f4798ac0b923384962049@XCH-RCD-007.cisco.com> <20190429153643.oxfcq7ze6ttdihb4@anna.jacobs.jacobs-university.de> <20190430061737.vvxghxyacd57k73i@anna.jacobs.jacobs-university.de> <20190430090905.qsa3r4dwauilsxur@anna.jacobs.jacobs-university.de> <20190501111712.347bpz26br6ox3jp@anna.jacobs.jacobs-university.de> In-Reply-To: Accept-Language: en-GB, en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-ms-exchange-transport-fromentityheader: Hosted x-originating-ip: [10.63.23.60] Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Outbound-SMTP-Client: 173.37.102.20, xch-rcd-010.cisco.com X-Outbound-Node: rcdn-core-6.cisco.com Archived-At: Subject: Re: [netmod] 6021 ipv4-prefix X-BeenThere: netmod@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: NETMOD WG list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 01 May 2019 13:18:28 -0000 Hi Mikael, > -----Original Message----- > From: Mikael Abrahamsson > Sent: 01 May 2019 14:13 > To: Juergen Schoenwaelder > Cc: Rob Wilton (rwilton) ; netmod@ietf.org > Subject: Re: [netmod] 6021 ipv4-prefix >=20 > On Wed, 1 May 2019, Juergen Schoenwaelder wrote: >=20 > > I personally do take the standpoint that irrelevant bits do not matter > > for the value of a prefix, i.e., 192.168.0.1/24 and 192.168.0.0/24 are > > two different representations for the same prefix. You seem to take > > the standpoint that 192.168.0.1/24 and 192.168.0.0/24 are different > > prefixes since bits that are irrelevant do differ. >=20 > No, I am saying this is underspecified or actually wrongly specified in t= he current > documents + proposed text regarding what canonical format is and isn't, a= nd > how the server and clients handle this. >=20 > I am fine with the current proposed text to specify this for ipv6-prefix,= but I am > also pointing out that I think when YANG 1.2 is specced, the definition f= or > "canonical format" needs more/changed text. I think that it is quite likely that this will get fixed in YANG 1.2. It is being tracked as a potential issue for YANG 1.2 here, https://github.= com/netmod-wg/yang-next/issues/83, which means that this issue should at le= ast be discussed/considered for the next version of YANG. If there are particular points of clarification that you think are importan= t/required then adding them as comments to that github issue would be helpf= ul. Thanks, Rob From nobody Wed May 1 08:53:34 2019 Return-Path: X-Original-To: netmod@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: netmod@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id CBB9E12008A for ; Wed, 1 May 2019 08:53:32 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.9 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.9 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id WRl5NWFHjq6K for ; Wed, 1 May 2019 08:53:30 -0700 (PDT) Received: from atlas5.jacobs-university.de (atlas5.jacobs-university.de [212.201.44.20]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher AECDH-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 4F9D112006E for ; Wed, 1 May 2019 08:53:30 -0700 (PDT) Received: from localhost (demetrius5.irc-it.jacobs-university.de [10.70.0.222]) by atlas5.jacobs-university.de (Postfix) with ESMTP id EA788DA9; Wed, 1 May 2019 17:53:28 +0200 (CEST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at jacobs-university.de Received: from atlas5.jacobs-university.de ([10.70.0.217]) by localhost (demetrius5.jacobs-university.de [10.70.0.222]) (amavisd-new, port 10032) with ESMTP id yJRJ7X7jKHMJ; Wed, 1 May 2019 17:53:28 +0200 (CEST) Received: from hermes.jacobs-university.de (hermes.jacobs-university.de [212.201.44.23]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (Client CN "hermes.jacobs-university.de", Issuer "Jacobs University CA - G01" (verified OK)) by atlas5.jacobs-university.de (Postfix) with ESMTPS; Wed, 1 May 2019 17:53:28 +0200 (CEST) Received: from localhost (demetrius5.irc-it.jacobs-university.de [10.70.0.222]) by hermes.jacobs-university.de (Postfix) with ESMTP id AA2E9200E0; Wed, 1 May 2019 17:53:28 +0200 (CEST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at jacobs-university.de Received: from hermes.jacobs-university.de ([212.201.44.23]) by localhost (demetrius5.jacobs-university.de [10.70.0.222]) (amavisd-new, port 10028) with ESMTP id PLylnt3Tm1bh; Wed, 1 May 2019 17:53:28 +0200 (CEST) Received: from exchange.jacobs-university.de (SXCHMB01.jacobs.jacobs-university.de [10.70.0.120]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (Client CN "exchange.jacobs-university.de", Issuer "DFN-Verein Global Issuing CA" (verified OK)) by hermes.jacobs-university.de (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 20049200DE; Wed, 1 May 2019 17:53:28 +0200 (CEST) Received: from anna.localdomain (10.50.218.117) by sxchmb03.jacobs.jacobs-university.de (10.70.0.155) with Microsoft SMTP Server (version=TLS1_2, cipher=TLS_ECDHE_RSA_WITH_AES_256_GCM_SHA384) id 15.1.1713.5; Wed, 1 May 2019 17:53:27 +0200 Received: by anna.localdomain (Postfix, from userid 501) id 6530A3008B81DA; Wed, 1 May 2019 17:53:24 +0200 (CEST) Date: Wed, 1 May 2019 17:53:21 +0200 From: Juergen Schoenwaelder To: Mikael Abrahamsson CC: "Rob Wilton (rwilton)" , "netmod@ietf.org" Message-ID: <20190501155321.v4qz6twsom45y62f@anna.jacobs.jacobs-university.de> Reply-To: Juergen Schoenwaelder Mail-Followup-To: Mikael Abrahamsson , "Rob Wilton (rwilton)" , "netmod@ietf.org" References: <0c4265d31adbf208a680f76216cc4bc42c766eae.camel@nic.cz> <959ed1a8092f4798ac0b923384962049@XCH-RCD-007.cisco.com> <20190429153643.oxfcq7ze6ttdihb4@anna.jacobs.jacobs-university.de> <20190430061737.vvxghxyacd57k73i@anna.jacobs.jacobs-university.de> <20190430090905.qsa3r4dwauilsxur@anna.jacobs.jacobs-university.de> <20190501111712.347bpz26br6ox3jp@anna.jacobs.jacobs-university.de> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: User-Agent: NeoMutt/20180716 X-ClientProxiedBy: SXCHMB03.jacobs.jacobs-university.de (10.70.0.155) To sxchmb03.jacobs.jacobs-university.de (10.70.0.155) Archived-At: Subject: Re: [netmod] 6021 ipv4-prefix X-BeenThere: netmod@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: NETMOD WG list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 01 May 2019 15:53:33 -0000 On Wed, May 01, 2019 at 03:12:47PM +0200, Mikael Abrahamsson wrote: > > I am fine with c), but I am also saying I disagree with your view that this > this behaviour has been specified "since the beginning". This might have > been obvious to you from the beginning, but it's not wrotten down properly > (at least I haven't seen text that makes me clearly understand the expected > behaviour). I think the text specifying what "canonical format is" referring > to "same *value*" is wrong. +17 and 17 is the same integer, 192.168.0.1/24 > and 192.168.0.0/24 are not the same *value*. It's misleading to refer to the > canonical form having the *same* *value* when we're throwing away > information. > The basic disconnect here may be that for me the prefix is the value while for you the value is the prefix plus the unused bits. > If you write 2001:db8:0:1 as 2001:db8::1 then you're compressing the text > form without throwing away actual information. It's the *same value* buth > *different text representation*. 2001:db8::/64 and 2001:db8::1/64 is *not > the same value*. With your definition of 'value' it is not the same, with my definition of 'value' it is the same. For me, the value space of the ipv6-prefix type is the set of all possible ipv6-prefixes. And with this, 2001:db8::/64 and 2001:db8::1/64 are two different textual representations that resolve to the same prefix, i.e., the same value in the value space. I would go even further and make the following distinction between - textual representations of values of a type - the value space of a type - internal representations of values of a type I think we have this discussion because you likely map the textual representations of a prefix into an internal representation that can capture details that are (in my model) not relevant for the value space itself. (Even for the case of simple signed integers, it depends on my internal number representation whether normalizing +7 to 7 causes a change of the internal representation or not.) Once we add support to YANG for binary encodings, we will get additional complexity since we will map the value space to multiple 'external' representations and for the same type (=value space), there may be differences how 'external' representations map to the value space. A binary representation of an IPv6 address may have a 1:1 mapping to the value space while our textual representation already has a n:1 relationship. Or we go into the direction to require that all 'external' representations must only have 1:1 relationships, i.e., only textual representations in canonical format will be legal. We will see... /js -- Juergen Schoenwaelder Jacobs University Bremen gGmbH Phone: +49 421 200 3587 Campus Ring 1 | 28759 Bremen | Germany Fax: +49 421 200 3103 From nobody Wed May 1 09:21:41 2019 Return-Path: X-Original-To: netmod@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: netmod@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8EC881200D5 for ; Wed, 1 May 2019 09:21:40 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -14.502 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-14.502 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIMWL_WL_HIGH=-0.001, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_HI=-5, SPF_PASS=-0.001, USER_IN_DEF_DKIM_WL=-7.5] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (1024-bit key) header.d=cisco.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 0v_oLPhGbO7j for ; 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d="scan'208";a="265386165" Received: from rcdn-core-8.cisco.com ([173.37.93.144]) by alln-iport-7.cisco.com with ESMTP/TLS/DHE-RSA-SEED-SHA; 01 May 2019 16:21:38 +0000 Received: from XCH-ALN-006.cisco.com (xch-aln-006.cisco.com [173.36.7.16]) by rcdn-core-8.cisco.com (8.15.2/8.15.2) with ESMTPS id x41GLcei029233 (version=TLSv1.2 cipher=AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Wed, 1 May 2019 16:21:38 GMT Received: from xch-rcd-007.cisco.com (173.37.102.17) by XCH-ALN-006.cisco.com (173.36.7.16) with Microsoft SMTP Server (TLS) id 15.0.1473.3; Wed, 1 May 2019 11:21:37 -0500 Received: from xch-rcd-007.cisco.com ([173.37.102.17]) by XCH-RCD-007.cisco.com ([173.37.102.17]) with mapi id 15.00.1473.003; Wed, 1 May 2019 11:21:37 -0500 From: "Rob Wilton (rwilton)" To: Juergen Schoenwaelder , "Mikael Abrahamsson" CC: "netmod@ietf.org" Thread-Topic: [netmod] 6021 ipv4-prefix Thread-Index: AdT0l4zGpLjvUofYRmmSWqlDWwoAHABSPgGAAAHDNYAAA12WgAABgE0AAAD0FQAAAKy0gAF1SI2AAAERvAAAFIrFgAAG4xuAAADAhYAACALZAAAA/vaAAAK/LwAAATq3AAB768IgAAtOeIAACmVD4P//tfSAgABTU/D//+IngIAAUdRQ//+41wCAAFEEMP//wy6AABznDYAAAdzWgAAFM7gAAADJUIAAMdJaAAAE8bQAAAQJZoAABZuUgAAKXFbA Date: Wed, 1 May 2019 16:21:37 +0000 Message-ID: References: <0c4265d31adbf208a680f76216cc4bc42c766eae.camel@nic.cz> <959ed1a8092f4798ac0b923384962049@XCH-RCD-007.cisco.com> <20190429153643.oxfcq7ze6ttdihb4@anna.jacobs.jacobs-university.de> <20190430061737.vvxghxyacd57k73i@anna.jacobs.jacobs-university.de> <20190430090905.qsa3r4dwauilsxur@anna.jacobs.jacobs-university.de> <20190501111712.347bpz26br6ox3jp@anna.jacobs.jacobs-university.de> <20190501155321.v4qz6twsom45y62f@anna.jacobs.jacobs-university.de> In-Reply-To: <20190501155321.v4qz6twsom45y62f@anna.jacobs.jacobs-university.de> Accept-Language: en-GB, en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-ms-exchange-transport-fromentityheader: Hosted x-originating-ip: [10.63.23.60] Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Outbound-SMTP-Client: 173.36.7.16, xch-aln-006.cisco.com X-Outbound-Node: rcdn-core-8.cisco.com Archived-At: Subject: Re: [netmod] 6021 ipv4-prefix X-BeenThere: netmod@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: NETMOD WG list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 01 May 2019 16:21:41 -0000 > -----Original Message----- > From: Juergen Schoenwaelder > Sent: 01 May 2019 16:53 > To: Mikael Abrahamsson > Cc: Rob Wilton (rwilton) ; netmod@ietf.org > Subject: Re: [netmod] 6021 ipv4-prefix >=20 > On Wed, May 01, 2019 at 03:12:47PM +0200, Mikael Abrahamsson wrote: > > > > I am fine with c), but I am also saying I disagree with your view that > > this this behaviour has been specified "since the beginning". This > > might have been obvious to you from the beginning, but it's not > > wrotten down properly (at least I haven't seen text that makes me > > clearly understand the expected behaviour). I think the text > > specifying what "canonical format is" referring to "same *value*" is > > wrong. +17 and 17 is the same integer, 192.168.0.1/24 and > > 192.168.0.0/24 are not the same *value*. It's misleading to refer to > > the canonical form having the *same* *value* when we're throwing away > information. > > >=20 > The basic disconnect here may be that for me the prefix is the value whil= e for > you the value is the prefix plus the unused bits. [To frame this comment, I don't object to your currently proposed solution] I consider the extra bits after the valid part of the prefix to be unwanted= noise. For me, one hypothetical question I have is whether the potential convenien= ce of allowing 192.168.0.1/24 (for some use cases) outweighs the risk that = the wrong value has been provided but cannot be checked (e.g. 192.168.0.1/2= ). Similarly, if you consider strings with a max length, I would expect a serv= er to reject a configured string that was too long rather that treat the ex= cessive characters as noise and silently truncate the input. If it was down to me, and I was defining this now, then I would choose the = stricter input (as per the should currently in the ipv6-prefix definition).= But no longer care if the consensus is in the other direction. Whichever way we change the definitions, I believe that they are being chan= ged in a non-backwards-compatible way that will impact some clients or serv= er implementations. Thanks, Rob From nobody Wed May 1 12:46:50 2019 Return-Path: X-Original-To: netmod@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: netmod@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id C67C61201B8 for ; Wed, 1 May 2019 12:46:48 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -4.301 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-4.301 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-2.3, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (1024-bit key) header.d=swm.pp.se Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 5fEWt5LnKfkK for ; Wed, 1 May 2019 12:46:46 -0700 (PDT) Received: from uplift.swm.pp.se (ipv6.swm.pp.se [IPv6:2a00:801::f]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 3575B12020A for ; Wed, 1 May 2019 12:46:46 -0700 (PDT) Received: by uplift.swm.pp.se (Postfix, from userid 501) id 1125DAF; Wed, 1 May 2019 21:46:44 +0200 (CEST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/simple; d=swm.pp.se; s=mail; t=1556740004; bh=QmqOVSzPwEjeRK/oAc/lBoa4Cs4UmxW2+aDeWm/kk5s=; h=Date:From:To:cc:Subject:In-Reply-To:References:From; b=bNiQaOsaG3U4+1pL9sCISdyn9tpKhwVtykjr/2/nglbZqLbnburWEXfRYXl8dvdyK p9USR7xYbiPndj1NCiW4KDO2QK07dLrqu7UYzXn2ErdSvjEgLZpTjAgj4PM1SkUGc+ KTU++jezMUVIv9XeeIaeFHvy7BwHuqPgpO1Ogl/Y= Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by uplift.swm.pp.se (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0D68D9F; Wed, 1 May 2019 21:46:44 +0200 (CEST) Date: Wed, 1 May 2019 21:46:44 +0200 (CEST) From: Mikael Abrahamsson To: Juergen Schoenwaelder cc: "Rob Wilton (rwilton)" , "netmod@ietf.org" In-Reply-To: <20190501155321.v4qz6twsom45y62f@anna.jacobs.jacobs-university.de> Message-ID: References: <0c4265d31adbf208a680f76216cc4bc42c766eae.camel@nic.cz> <959ed1a8092f4798ac0b923384962049@XCH-RCD-007.cisco.com> <20190429153643.oxfcq7ze6ttdihb4@anna.jacobs.jacobs-university.de> <20190430061737.vvxghxyacd57k73i@anna.jacobs.jacobs-university.de> <20190430090905.qsa3r4dwauilsxur@anna.jacobs.jacobs-university.de> <20190501111712.347bpz26br6ox3jp@anna.jacobs.jacobs-university.de> <20190501155321.v4qz6twsom45y62f@anna.jacobs.jacobs-university.de> User-Agent: Alpine 2.20 (DEB 67 2015-01-07) Organization: People's Front Against WWW MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed Archived-At: Subject: Re: [netmod] 6021 ipv4-prefix X-BeenThere: netmod@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: NETMOD WG list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 01 May 2019 19:46:49 -0000 On Wed, 1 May 2019, Juergen Schoenwaelder wrote: > The basic disconnect here may be that for me the prefix is the value > while for you the value is the prefix plus the unused bits. My disconnect is what the server should do when it encounters a value where the bits are non-zero. Where is the text that tells the server implementor whether to throw an error when client commits non-zero bits, or to just throw the bits away and store the value in the canonical format? > (Even for the case of simple signed integers, it depends on my internal > number representation whether normalizing +7 to 7 causes a change of > the internal representation or not.) I think this example is not relevant to this discussion. +7 and 7 doesn't change any integer backend representation. It's the same value. Again, I have no problem with the server throwing away the bits at commit time, I just want it to be clear from the specs that this is the correct behaviour and what the server should do when the above text is not true: "The IPv6 address should have all bits that do not belong to the prefix set to zero." Throw an error or "fix it"? It seems it should "fix it", so we should have text that reflects this. I have no idea where this text should go, though. -- Mikael Abrahamsson email: swmike@swm.pp.se From nobody Wed May 1 19:41:37 2019 Return-Path: X-Original-To: netmod@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: netmod@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id C38BD1202CE for ; Wed, 1 May 2019 19:41:35 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.901 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.901 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id J9YmilXbrCzo for ; Wed, 1 May 2019 19:41:34 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail-pl1-f182.google.com (mail-pl1-f182.google.com [209.85.214.182]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 05B7B1202D1 for ; Wed, 1 May 2019 19:41:33 -0700 (PDT) Received: by mail-pl1-f182.google.com with SMTP id l2so305740plt.11 for ; Wed, 01 May 2019 19:41:33 -0700 (PDT) X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:subject:to:references:from:message-id:date :user-agent:mime-version:in-reply-to:content-transfer-encoding; bh=SEkfgxeawLl5zRDG0/6PqgJbeY67cYwNiZElKjZCu7U=; b=XbC0mRXQzsul0/5ajwy7lzfRjGaHpnLQjLfk+JFYc/bvachrzloxy7BHIbW/eMKynO VEA8+zday2ZcgS4KBB9q0igT9bdRlD94b595rJaQk2+U7KEWdFNgKbfpa07eTsjkbTk+ LPDRitUPKAZhvXib2QQ7jxmiphjm8ErRjhY+xuYrYFqio0QS+1pbLPXmDRMCIPWdSrmT jTH0+OGGjwZTX+14DxGXU94sQpa9cj1zLinIsf09TVLbQgMCe1u+0wmGuqau9By8+Bq0 EfRZJnjL6UfnxXxKaAswakmwafb0rOiAEf0hNcRrJb+PKByc0FnoGJ/yHeFP+qmZ39y7 3HmA== X-Gm-Message-State: APjAAAVJiF96eMA6/Yy+km/yq54g9KarrlnGj5PEZHpl9wmQg6escdkw R/0yfqbXfGvDRDJyJeuT6SRRsUSrM3g= X-Google-Smtp-Source: APXvYqyfJOc8fvy9QMi7lZmzP7OiiEVW7eRcgQuNwurFp/RmzrvI66Y1bLS4VfqkjVdJaQA5bQ+EHQ== X-Received: by 2002:a17:902:b589:: with SMTP id a9mr1065578pls.66.1556764892670; Wed, 01 May 2019 19:41:32 -0700 (PDT) Received: from [192.168.1.101] (c-69-181-241-121.hsd1.ca.comcast.net. [69.181.241.121]) by smtp.gmail.com with ESMTPSA id j10sm12604087pfa.37.2019.05.01.19.41.31 for (version=TLS1_2 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 bits=128/128); Wed, 01 May 2019 19:41:32 -0700 (PDT) To: netmod@ietf.org References: <0c4265d31adbf208a680f76216cc4bc42c766eae.camel@nic.cz> <959ed1a8092f4798ac0b923384962049@XCH-RCD-007.cisco.com> <20190429153643.oxfcq7ze6ttdihb4@anna.jacobs.jacobs-university.de> <20190430061737.vvxghxyacd57k73i@anna.jacobs.jacobs-university.de> <20190430090905.qsa3r4dwauilsxur@anna.jacobs.jacobs-university.de> <20190501111712.347bpz26br6ox3jp@anna.jacobs.jacobs-university.de> <20190501155321.v4qz6twsom45y62f@anna.jacobs.jacobs-university.de> From: Randy Presuhn Message-ID: <5CCA58DA.3030801@alumni.stanford.edu> Date: Wed, 1 May 2019 19:41:30 -0700 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 6.0; rv:38.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/38.5.0 MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Archived-At: Subject: Re: [netmod] 6021 ipv4-prefix X-BeenThere: netmod@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: NETMOD WG list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 02 May 2019 02:41:36 -0000 Hi - On 5/1/2019 12:46 PM, Mikael Abrahamsson wrote: ... > Where is the text that tells the server implementor whether to throw an > error when client commits non-zero bits, or to just throw the bits away > and store the value in the canonical format? Such text would be an inappropriate constraint the server's internal representation. We should only specify the externally-visible behaviour: that the reported value will be in the canonical format. Whether an implementation preserves extraneous cruft in its internal representation is purely an implementation decision, and not subject to standardization. >> (Even for the case of simple signed integers, it depends on my internal >> number representation whether normalizing +7 to 7 causes a change of >> the internal representation or not.) > > I think this example is not relevant to this discussion. +7 and 7 > doesn't change any integer backend representation. It's the same value. You don't know whether it does or does not affect the internal representation used by the backend. If the backend is a textual configuration file virtualized through netconf, the "+" might very well be preserved in the file, even though it would disappear in response to a query. We only know that for purposes of the protocol's operation, the server needs to behave as though it is in the canonical form. > Again, I have no problem with the server throwing away the bits at > commit time, I just want it to be clear from the specs that this is the > correct behaviour and what the server should do when the above text is > not true: > > "The IPv6 address should have all bits that do not belong > to the prefix set to zero." > > Throw an error or "fix it"? Since the language is "should" an error seems inappropriate. > It seems it should "fix it", so we should > have text that reflects this. False dichotomy. An implementation might actually preserve those bits, though of course they'd never be seen again (at least not on a netconf interface) since the netconf server will always behave as though the value were in its canonical form, regardless of the internal representation. > I have no idea where this text should go, > though. I agree with the earlier sentiment that anything addressing this really belongs in whatever further clarification of canonicalization goes into the update. Randy From nobody Thu May 2 02:06:56 2019 Return-Path: X-Original-To: netmod@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: netmod@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id C9A6C120159 for ; Thu, 2 May 2019 02:06:55 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: 0.249 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=0.249 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, LOTS_OF_MONEY=0.001, RATWARE_MS_HASH=2.148, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=no autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (1024-bit key) header.d=btconnect.onmicrosoft.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id xCBE3PBLGUvb for ; Thu, 2 May 2019 02:06:52 -0700 (PDT) Received: from EUR03-AM5-obe.outbound.protection.outlook.com (mail-eopbgr30102.outbound.protection.outlook.com [40.107.3.102]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 881B112001E for ; 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DIR:OUT; SFP:1102; SCL:1; SRVR:VI1PR07MB6079; H:VI1PR07MB3118.eurprd07.prod.outlook.com; FPR:; SPF:None; LANG:en; PTR:InfoNoRecords; MX:1; A:0; received-spf: None (protection.outlook.com: btconnect.com does not designate permitted sender hosts) x-ms-exchange-senderadcheck: 1 x-microsoft-antispam-message-info: mTsI3p5rCYIZ0cmz4Git+4cMr8IMYxnI2yp5e3hByRnmpp0dTEeVt7JoFc9cY3JxDLVv7jE/xqW4/slU9jF/otidRCghuWeTeWYENnpiE0kqw2ZfgY6AL/v+i5zVD39GeiAZwc99UhNJHsYNkeaIn6LlyChNni5Yi+n8tiY/6OoFCIKdo+TdLpFdXR8Eo9dokltUFHKwXr7+q12THfZU3OqfFIGzgjBd3ok2FMF8ocrwLoZhMYO/8vl49W9AmYZEAfeN7hjxb8wdkDk7AWbZMVnWpPTMRe9KcjIydOM3mdfWtIgia7VZbMBxK/UDRdJNKC2TBDeMYZQnzWjRbYoKGvCRB3zJ1Bw4crMOh82DV1xkJCbVbeCAhQ7tKZyw3KxrytRG/cE9/tUW3zyIFMvl6lFdxxIpW2ZtF3awGK7azeM= Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-ID: <699CA5BD506D5744819643FE669B421D@eurprd07.prod.outlook.com> Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable MIME-Version: 1.0 X-OriginatorOrg: btconnect.com X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-Network-Message-Id: 16aa6986-79c6-429e-9611-08d6cedd820f X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-originalarrivaltime: 02 May 2019 09:06:49.4761 (UTC) X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-fromentityheader: Hosted X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-id: cf8853ed-96e5-465b-9185-806bfe185e30 X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-mailboxtype: HOSTED X-MS-Exchange-Transport-CrossTenantHeadersStamped: VI1PR07MB6079 Archived-At: Subject: Re: [netmod] 6021 ipv4-prefix X-BeenThere: netmod@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: NETMOD WG list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 02 May 2019 09:06:56 -0000 ----- Original Message ----- From: "Juergen Schoenwaelder" Sent: Wednesday, May 01, 2019 12:17 PM > On Wed, May 01, 2019 at 10:55:38AM +0200, Mikael Abrahamsson wrote: > > > > So while you seem to think I am not reading your text, it seems to me you're > > not reading what I am saying either. You're not responding to the points I > > am trying to make anyway. > > > > https://tools.ietf.org/html/rfc7950#section-9.1 > > > > This talks about *values*. If you drop bits in IPv6-prefix, then it's not > > the same *value* anymore. > > I personally do take the standpoint that irrelevant bits do not matter > for the value of a prefix, i.e., 192.168.0.1/24 and 192.168.0.0/24 are > two different representations for the same prefix. You seem to take > the standpoint that 192.168.0.1/24 and 192.168.0.0/24 are different > prefixes since bits that are irrelevant do differ. > > Apparently there are different views that people have concerning > prefixes. I think I have seen the following three alternatives: > > a) non-prefix bits that are set to one are illegal in a prefix > b) non-prefix bits are irrelevant but they need to be preserved > c) non-prefix bits are irrelevant, ignore them and the canonical > representation has non-prefix bits set to zero > > The RFC 6991 definitions do c). If there is consensus that c) is > wrong, we need to deprecate the definitions and create new ones after > finding consensus on either b) or a). And I think that c) is the correct answer (and would be for those not involved in netmod but who have experience of the IETF - did I hear 'be liberal in what you accept'?) I have worked with systems that made every effort to find a reason not to accept something that had been input, and I have worked with systems that bend over backwards to accept something a bit flaky; different developers have different cultures but I have always found the culture of the IETF to be very clear on this point. Mac, Linux and Windows have different cultures. There is a caveat and it is that the context must be clear. Randy cited ' ... 1234567.89 and if it subsequently chooses to display it as "1.234.567,89 USD" ' Well, where he is, may be, but not here where it could be 1.234.567,89 Euro 1,234,567.89 Euro 123456789 Yen or ... depending on the locale. Going back to 192.168.0.1/24 then the meaning is clear as long as it is unambiguous that it is a prefix and not more; as has been commented on (a lot of messages ago), this could be a compound object, specifying address+ mask address + prefix + prefix length etc so it matters that the context is clear, both for the object instance and for the organisation doing the specification. Tom Petch > System/kernel interfaces seem to show different behaviours. My Linux > box seems to do a), my MacOS box seems to do c). The system/kernel > interfaces likely all do the same if all non-prefix bits are zero, > i.e., when the system receives data in the canonical format. > > Option b) seems to be the most expensive to implement (your server may > have to clear non-prefix bits before pushing the prefix into the > kernel and it needs to map data received from the kernel back to a > prefix that has unused bits preserved in the datastore). Hence, for me > the choice is between a) and c) and given that we have c) already > defined for years, my first preference is to just keep things as they > are. > > /js > > -- > Juergen Schoenwaelder Jacobs University Bremen gGmbH > Phone: +49 421 200 3587 Campus Ring 1 | 28759 Bremen | Germany > Fax: +49 421 200 3103 > > _______________________________________________ > netmod mailing list > netmod@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/netmod From nobody Thu May 2 04:35:52 2019 Return-Path: X-Original-To: netmod@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: netmod@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 145FC120112 for ; Thu, 2 May 2019 04:35:50 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -4.3 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-4.3 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-2.3, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (1024-bit key) header.d=swm.pp.se Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id m95eHtWasJig for ; Thu, 2 May 2019 04:35:47 -0700 (PDT) Received: from uplift.swm.pp.se (swm.pp.se [212.247.200.143]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 641571200B9 for ; Thu, 2 May 2019 04:35:47 -0700 (PDT) Received: by uplift.swm.pp.se (Postfix, from userid 501) id AABBEB0; Thu, 2 May 2019 13:35:43 +0200 (CEST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/simple; d=swm.pp.se; s=mail; t=1556796943; bh=/gxpuwQZkrpDLkK35ByIQiolxS3HJpUd+lRWu5k0a30=; h=Date:From:To:cc:Subject:In-Reply-To:References:From; b=Zk/VZQCBBFaHqlJNR9+o4osumu2xzcfyrEY1rMp63qfOQXtdi4rUrJmtvdOtjyswq GK+OTPBqxfRkRNR2vb0rjUUCdpfjsGnY5W9ugGdU1q1N3l8u5/dOadVIThg8VKj+YH eLO+7CMeqVAiueTWqvo8sjZwyYn3KAlrr/F83Zf8= Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by uplift.swm.pp.se (Postfix) with ESMTP id A8E3FAF; Thu, 2 May 2019 13:35:43 +0200 (CEST) Date: Thu, 2 May 2019 13:35:43 +0200 (CEST) From: Mikael Abrahamsson To: Randy Presuhn cc: netmod@ietf.org In-Reply-To: <5CCA58DA.3030801@alumni.stanford.edu> Message-ID: References: <0c4265d31adbf208a680f76216cc4bc42c766eae.camel@nic.cz> <959ed1a8092f4798ac0b923384962049@XCH-RCD-007.cisco.com> <20190429153643.oxfcq7ze6ttdihb4@anna.jacobs.jacobs-university.de> <20190430061737.vvxghxyacd57k73i@anna.jacobs.jacobs-university.de> <20190430090905.qsa3r4dwauilsxur@anna.jacobs.jacobs-university.de> <20190501111712.347bpz26br6ox3jp@anna.jacobs.jacobs-university.de> <20190501155321.v4qz6twsom45y62f@anna.jacobs.jacobs-university.de> <5CCA58DA.3030801@alumni.stanford.edu> User-Agent: Alpine 2.20 (DEB 67 2015-01-07) Organization: People's Front Against WWW MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed Archived-At: Subject: Re: [netmod] 6021 ipv4-prefix X-BeenThere: netmod@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: NETMOD WG list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 02 May 2019 11:35:50 -0000 On Wed, 1 May 2019, Randy Presuhn wrote: > Hi - > > On 5/1/2019 12:46 PM, Mikael Abrahamsson wrote: > .... >> Where is the text that tells the server implementor whether to throw an >> error when client commits non-zero bits, or to just throw the bits away >> and store the value in the canonical format? > > Such text would be an inappropriate constraint the server's > internal representation. We should only specify > the externally-visible behaviour: that the reported value > will be in the canonical format. Whether an implementation > preserves extraneous cruft in its internal representation is > purely an implementation decision, and not subject to standardization. I am talking about what goes on the wire. If the client does an edit-config with ipv6-prefix 2001:db8::1/64, should the server convert this into 2001:db8::/64 or throw an error on the edit-config operation. Jurgen seems to say it should convert it and not throw an error, and I'd like text to say that indeed, this is proper behaviour. Nobody has so far been able to tell me where this text currently is, so that's why I'm asking for it to be added. Either this should go into an update to https://tools.ietf.org/html/rfc7950#section-9.1 or it should go into each and every definition of types (or both of them). >> It seems it should "fix it", so we should >> have text that reflects this. > > False dichotomy. An implementation might actually preserve > those bits, though of course they'd never be seen again (at > least not on a netconf interface) since the netconf server > will always behave as though the value were in its canonical > form, regardless of the internal representation. Again, I am talking about what goes on the wire, what is seen when issuing "get" or "edit-config" etc. -- Mikael Abrahamsson email: swmike@swm.pp.se From nobody Thu May 2 05:39:07 2019 Return-Path: X-Original-To: netmod@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: netmod@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 982211203A0 for ; Thu, 2 May 2019 05:38:58 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.899 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.899 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 20x_MvS35r9m for ; Thu, 2 May 2019 05:38:54 -0700 (PDT) Received: from trail.lhotka.name (trail.lhotka.name [77.48.224.143]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id B150212038A for ; Thu, 2 May 2019 05:38:46 -0700 (PDT) Received: by trail.lhotka.name (Postfix, from userid 109) id BB8021820449; Thu, 2 May 2019 14:38:23 +0200 (CEST) Received: from localhost (nat-1.nic.cz [217.31.205.1]) by trail.lhotka.name (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 1E338182004F; Thu, 2 May 2019 14:38:20 +0200 (CEST) From: Ladislav Lhotka To: Mikael Abrahamsson , Randy Presuhn Cc: netmod@ietf.org In-Reply-To: References: <0c4265d31adbf208a680f76216cc4bc42c766eae.camel@nic.cz> <959ed1a8092f4798ac0b923384962049@XCH-RCD-007.cisco.com> <20190429153643.oxfcq7ze6ttdihb4@anna.jacobs.jacobs-university.de> <20190430061737.vvxghxyacd57k73i@anna.jacobs.jacobs-university.de> <20190430090905.qsa3r4dwauilsxur@anna.jacobs.jacobs-university.de> <20190501111712.347bpz26br6ox3jp@anna.jacobs.jacobs-university.de> <20190501155321.v4qz6twsom45y62f@anna.jacobs.jacobs-university.de> <5CCA58DA.3030801@alumni.stanford.edu> Mail-Followup-To: Mikael Abrahamsson , Randy Presuhn , netmod@ietf.org Date: Thu, 02 May 2019 14:38:41 +0200 Message-ID: <87v9yt58vi.fsf@nic.cz> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Archived-At: Subject: Re: [netmod] 6021 ipv4-prefix X-BeenThere: netmod@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: NETMOD WG list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 02 May 2019 12:39:05 -0000 Mikael Abrahamsson writes: > On Wed, 1 May 2019, Randy Presuhn wrote: > >> Hi - >> >> On 5/1/2019 12:46 PM, Mikael Abrahamsson wrote: >> .... >>> Where is the text that tells the server implementor whether to throw an >>> error when client commits non-zero bits, or to just throw the bits away >>> and store the value in the canonical format? >> >> Such text would be an inappropriate constraint the server's >> internal representation. We should only specify >> the externally-visible behaviour: that the reported value >> will be in the canonical format. Whether an implementation >> preserves extraneous cruft in its internal representation is >> purely an implementation decision, and not subject to standardization. > > I am talking about what goes on the wire. If the client does an > edit-config with ipv6-prefix 2001:db8::1/64, should the server convert > this into 2001:db8::/64 or throw an error on the edit-config operation. > > Jurgen seems to say it should convert it and not throw an error, and I'd > like text to say that indeed, this is proper behaviour. Nobody has so far > been able to tell me where this text currently is, so that's why I'm If we agree that a type defines the set of legal on-the-wire values (possibly modulo representation - JSON/XML/...), then section 4.2.2.1 in RFC 7950 says: [A leaf instance] has exactly one value of a particular type ... So why should a server throw an error if this is satisfied? Lada > asking for it to be added. Either this should go into an update to > https://tools.ietf.org/html/rfc7950#section-9.1 or it should go into each > and every definition of types (or both of them). > >>> It seems it should "fix it", so we should >>> have text that reflects this. >> >> False dichotomy. An implementation might actually preserve >> those bits, though of course they'd never be seen again (at >> least not on a netconf interface) since the netconf server >> will always behave as though the value were in its canonical >> form, regardless of the internal representation. > > Again, I am talking about what goes on the wire, what is seen when issuing > "get" or "edit-config" etc. > > -- > Mikael Abrahamsson email: swmike@swm.pp.se > > _______________________________________________ > netmod mailing list > netmod@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/netmod -- Ladislav Lhotka Head, CZ.NIC Labs PGP Key ID: 0xB8F92B08A9F76C67 From nobody Thu May 2 06:13:09 2019 Return-Path: X-Original-To: netmod@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: netmod@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7D1721200C5 for ; Thu, 2 May 2019 06:13:07 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.899 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.899 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id OVX4yyangAjT for ; Thu, 2 May 2019 06:13:05 -0700 (PDT) Received: from trail.lhotka.name (trail.lhotka.name [77.48.224.143]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id AB9AE12036D for ; Thu, 2 May 2019 06:13:03 -0700 (PDT) Received: by trail.lhotka.name (Postfix, from userid 109) id 929F4182044E; Thu, 2 May 2019 15:12:40 +0200 (CEST) Received: from localhost (nat-1.nic.cz [217.31.205.1]) by trail.lhotka.name (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 1FD72182004F; Thu, 2 May 2019 15:12:37 +0200 (CEST) From: Ladislav Lhotka To: "Rob Wilton \(rwilton\)" , Juergen Schoenwaelder Cc: NETMOD WG In-Reply-To: <5ccb99db35514088986ff3a396746c7c@XCH-RCD-007.cisco.com> References: <5ccb99db35514088986ff3a396746c7c@XCH-RCD-007.cisco.com> Mail-Followup-To: "Rob Wilton \(rwilton\)" , Juergen Schoenwaelder , NETMOD WG Date: Thu, 02 May 2019 15:12:58 +0200 Message-ID: <87sgtx57ad.fsf@nic.cz> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Archived-At: Subject: Re: [netmod] Canonical value representations in typedefs [was RE: 6021 ipv4-prefix] X-BeenThere: netmod@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: NETMOD WG list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 02 May 2019 13:13:08 -0000 "Rob Wilton (rwilton)" writes: > Forking the thread title to avoid further polluting the original issue, and because these comments really apply to YANG.Next. > >> -----Original Message----- >> From: Juergen Schoenwaelder >> Sent: 29 April 2019 18:26 >> To: Rob Wilton (rwilton) >> Cc: Ladislav Lhotka ; NETMOD WG >> Subject: Re: [netmod] 6021 ipv4-prefix >> >> On Mon, Apr 29, 2019 at 05:08:41PM +0000, Rob Wilton (rwilton) wrote: >> > >> > If YANG allows a typedef to refine the canonical definition of a base >> > type, then I think that the YANG RFC should be explicit on this (e.g. >> > in YANG Next). Particularly, because this requires a server >> > implementation to read/understand the description associated with a >> > leaf/typedef in case they have to add specific canonicalization code >> > to implement the leaf/typedef. >> >> Description statements in general are expected to be read and understood and >> implemented where necessary. But I now see that the fact that this section 9.1 is >> under section 9 which is titled built-in types is causing the confusion. This is, >> indeed, unfortunate. > > Yes, OK. > > But this really means that YANG has two sorts of typedefs: > > (i) A regular typedef which is just an alias for a base type, perhaps with some additional refinements that can all be handled automatically (e.g. pattern statements, etc). In this scenario, I think that a compiler can ignore the description, and process the typedef automatically. > (ii) An enhanced typedef that has additional semantics embedded into the description statement that requires custom implementation of the typedef. > > Being able to distinguish these two cases in a programmatic way seems > useful to me, but perhaps it is just unnecessary noise. YANG assumes "powerful" descriptions in general. An option would be to find a way for specifying the canonical format in a machine-readable form. > > For the second case, I do wonder whether this is much closer to adding new concrete type to the language, just in a slightly backdoor way. There have been discussions about adding binary representations for some of these types (e.g IPv4 address, IPv6 address ,etc). Perhaps that would be easier if they were somewhat closer to base types than derived types, and maybe this class of type definitions shouldn't be using typedef at all. > >> >> > I'm not sure that we have really got a simple solution for either clients or >> servers: >> > 1) Clients may use non canonical format on configuration input >> > 2) But clients must still use canonical format for xpath expressions >> > 3) Clients must also handle canonical format being returned on any get >> requests. >> > 4) Servers must perform normalization of any type to a canonical format, as >> defined in the type/typedef/leaf description. >> >> Exactly. Note that clients only send xpath for filtering (if they want to filter via >> xpath). What is more important is that module authors can predict the format of >> values when they write when or must expressions. And as Lada points out, >> having predictable key values also is kind of desirable. > > I wasn't suggesting that we lose uniqueness of list keys, but instead > don't allow typedefs to define their own canonical format. I.e. that > would always require IPv6 addresses to be provided in the canonical > form. However, the benefits of this are probably marginal given that This just shifts the burden to the client side, with pretty much the same issues. I think that the client should be allowed to send IPv6 addresses in any form permitted by RFC 4291. Lada > a robust server would want to check that the type is in the canonical > form anyway, and hence the server still has to write very similar > canonicalization code regardless. > > >> >> The reality is that there are many different ways to write an IPv6 address and the >> idea was to accept them on input but to subsequently work with the normalized >> canonical representation. And this is in ietf-yang-types and ietf-inet-types since >> day one. But yes, the text in section 9.1 seems to be misplaced. > > I've raised https://github.com/netmod-wg/yang-next/issues/83 to clarify the expected YANG behaviour here, and perhaps to also consider whether an extra statement would be beneficial. > > Thanks, > Rob > > >> >> /js >> >> -- >> Juergen Schoenwaelder Jacobs University Bremen gGmbH >> Phone: +49 421 200 3587 Campus Ring 1 | 28759 Bremen | Germany >> Fax: +49 421 200 3103 -- Ladislav Lhotka Head, CZ.NIC Labs PGP Key ID: 0xB8F92B08A9F76C67 From nobody Thu May 2 08:42:56 2019 Return-Path: X-Original-To: netmod@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: netmod@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id BB3E8120417 for ; Thu, 2 May 2019 08:42:54 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (1024-bit key) header.d=hq.sk Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id yqc2FZ1Xda2Y for ; Thu, 2 May 2019 08:42:52 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail.hq.sk (hq.sk [81.89.59.181]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher AECDH-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 3213012042D for ; Thu, 2 May 2019 08:42:37 -0700 (PDT) Received: from nitebug.nitenet.local (46.229.239.158.host.vnet.sk [46.229.239.158]) by mail.hq.sk (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 9466E240363; Thu, 2 May 2019 17:42:34 +0200 (CEST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/simple; d=hq.sk; s=mail; t=1556811754; bh=0JFf3y4DUZe5VgYeCH6PonbBbK7cxuTg0GNpEyHkONE=; h=Subject:To:References:From:Date:In-Reply-To; b=tgbqaUeLrEm0992nztP2OpfGf1XmTUV2ZNx30d/+t9ty9G1lkRfaiW99CX0rKEXld gEr7CQPvygWY9WP+DtGYCCuVI87vs4Y4nm0tGqI+yIoXOYVu1d6jxlyEDf1ITOEyR9 vXhipnXcOcyWpWmjudA85dwho3RajhAIxwI2Q+0E= To: "Rob Wilton (rwilton)" , Juergen Schoenwaelder , NETMOD WG References: <5ccb99db35514088986ff3a396746c7c@XCH-RCD-007.cisco.com> <87sgtx57ad.fsf@nic.cz> From: Robert Varga Openpgp: preference=signencrypt Message-ID: Date: Thu, 2 May 2019 17:42:34 +0200 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; Linux x86_64; rv:60.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/60.6.1 MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: <87sgtx57ad.fsf@nic.cz> Content-Type: multipart/signed; micalg=pgp-sha512; protocol="application/pgp-signature"; boundary="v0TEOIcBj1huRvMXagMrLlYCGaM9V9m0N" Archived-At: Subject: Re: [netmod] Canonical value representations in typedefs [was RE: 6021 ipv4-prefix] X-BeenThere: netmod@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: NETMOD WG list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 02 May 2019 15:42:55 -0000 This is an OpenPGP/MIME signed message (RFC 4880 and 3156) --v0TEOIcBj1huRvMXagMrLlYCGaM9V9m0N Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="6lrTihzPLlV8aZcSsh4ZGAbiXq1eJtqBL"; protected-headers="v1" From: Robert Varga To: "Rob Wilton (rwilton)" , Juergen Schoenwaelder , NETMOD WG Message-ID: Subject: Re: [netmod] Canonical value representations in typedefs [was RE: 6021 ipv4-prefix] References: <5ccb99db35514088986ff3a396746c7c@XCH-RCD-007.cisco.com> <87sgtx57ad.fsf@nic.cz> In-Reply-To: <87sgtx57ad.fsf@nic.cz> --6lrTihzPLlV8aZcSsh4ZGAbiXq1eJtqBL Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Language: en-US Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable On 02/05/2019 15:12, Ladislav Lhotka wrote: >> But this really means that YANG has two sorts of typedefs: >> >> (i) A regular typedef which is just an alias for a base type, perhaps = with some additional refinements that can all be handled automatically (e= =2Eg. pattern statements, etc). In this scenario, I think that a compile= r can ignore the description, and process the typedef automatically. >> (ii) An enhanced typedef that has additional semantics embedded into t= he description statement that requires custom implementation of the typed= ef. >> >> Being able to distinguish these two cases in a programmatic way seems >> useful to me, but perhaps it is just unnecessary noise. > YANG assumes "powerful" descriptions in general. An option would be to = find a way for specifying the canonical > format in a machine-readable form. The way I understand typedefs (and use of restricted types in leaf/leaf-list) as that the first such use defines a value domain and any further references must strictly refer to a subset of that domain. Notably it does not seem to be sane to redefine the canonical format once it has been set. I think the entire canonical format problem comes from the fact ipv4-address is, unlike case (i), only a representation of a value domain which is semantically 32 bits. That value domain has two functions that are different from plain old string: - equality - total ordering Canonical representation deals with the first one, while also providing interoperability with XPath. There is no current mechanism to address the second one. I find having a machine-readable marker (such as an extension) that a value domain is being defined immediately useful -- it allows the compiler to warn that a specific typedef needs additional work to get it working as intended. This one's really easy. Having some (other) machine-readable marker of how a canonical value looks like (i.e. similar to pattern) is also useful: it allows the runtime to check if an incoming value is in canonical format and accept it irrespective whether specific value domain support (from above) is present or not. This one is moderately hard. Finally, some third marker, which would describe how to transform a non-canonical string into a canonical string would obviously be awesome, as now the runtime can work automatically. This one is really hard, especially since the operations probably involve operating not on a string, but some other representation. As in implementer, I really care about the first two -- they are easy to do and provide immense value in making things work 'out of the box' and automatically catching cases when they do not. Regards, Robert --6lrTihzPLlV8aZcSsh4ZGAbiXq1eJtqBL-- --v0TEOIcBj1huRvMXagMrLlYCGaM9V9m0N Content-Type: application/pgp-signature; name="signature.asc" Content-Description: OpenPGP digital signature Content-Disposition: attachment; filename="signature.asc" -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- iQI/BAEBCgApFiEEdj+N7pgGP1gKvbdQJKB0S2uuNdsFAlzLD+oLHG5pdGVAaHEu c2sACgkQJKB0S2uuNdsqlhAAp3vCeNIlGdE10PLrgWsyY6VsGAGGrwZlN//t8gag x49PKZhiTmbPmtRSvuLXaNy7dwKxN9GozIh89A0qLG2nS18tfqbd0WNSvyk/0mQ7 Tibtgd00m6SU6zBeF71rXc7CffE4cOUZrhEfLTC5iy/qKmIjo+kW1kB1tyP2tZET 4ZuTNwgiYHPwliwsVE12ASy6TySUPD1PfD0xj2GwGSIIIdyAWP5SzemLw3j+fZrJ bYO9taDh+RuBFLr9vnMsLIrN7Lgcy4LCVbl/+gNtMSHEiqrpk42qWGmx3Umqanoa dCVzPNFqkfrW6ubZmU3qtfwBE4qhb+Pm5ePraGhQVg33ny8aura9heSU/F62qelQ WN9uZokQeh3OhtGcToce/rxG4K+Ge8/9LhxUqd6lB4H8Xq3XWUmi8+un6a63vM+w NrLLSDTYayKY4WRMpAd1msdW7z1yvWCVFkHebUtmN8LLBu9vmJckxBCeO5FoBA+j QoPcNxX1Ix+/jx5VNV8GZHXns9nlR6XZo9Tt5VUF5i4LppQi2vktGoO2gOb+AUgj zYPS6U/f75WBm/1PPrb3tyiffmFaRH9qvDgT35OT51IqnjuJ+IG7bGA+nCezj5wK 7b2B3KZRGpgjBaNGf9I2cRdOmDN+1lxVcOmLlizteKV0+p8H+O5eFEUGhN09TK2T TV0= =w1mP -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --v0TEOIcBj1huRvMXagMrLlYCGaM9V9m0N-- From nobody Thu May 2 09:32:56 2019 Return-Path: X-Original-To: netmod@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: netmod@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9466D120424 for ; 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Thu, 2 May 2019 16:32:41 GMT Received: from xch-rcd-007.cisco.com (173.37.102.17) by XCH-RCD-009.cisco.com (173.37.102.19) with Microsoft SMTP Server (TLS) id 15.0.1473.3; Thu, 2 May 2019 11:32:40 -0500 Received: from xch-rcd-007.cisco.com ([173.37.102.17]) by XCH-RCD-007.cisco.com ([173.37.102.17]) with mapi id 15.00.1473.003; Thu, 2 May 2019 11:32:40 -0500 From: "Rob Wilton (rwilton)" To: Ladislav Lhotka , Mikael Abrahamsson , Randy Presuhn CC: "netmod@ietf.org" Thread-Topic: [netmod] 6021 ipv4-prefix Thread-Index: AdT0l4zGpLjvUofYRmmSWqlDWwoAHABSPgGAAAHDNYAAA12WgAABgE0AAAD0FQAAAKy0gAF1SI2AAAERvAAAFIrFgAAG4xuAAADAhYAACALZAAAA/vaAAAK/LwAAATq3AAB768IgAAtOeIAACmVD4P//tfSAgABTU/D//+IngIAAUdRQ//+41wCAAFEEMP//wy6AABznDYAAAdzWgAAFM7gAAADJUIAAMdJaAAAE8bQAAAQJZoAABZuUgAAIJpwAAA58TQAAEqhFgAACMveAAALl7LA= Date: Thu, 2 May 2019 16:32:40 +0000 Message-ID: <76a384e8d3f7487e865e7dd6ad0e4c4f@XCH-RCD-007.cisco.com> References: <0c4265d31adbf208a680f76216cc4bc42c766eae.camel@nic.cz> <959ed1a8092f4798ac0b923384962049@XCH-RCD-007.cisco.com> <20190429153643.oxfcq7ze6ttdihb4@anna.jacobs.jacobs-university.de> <20190430061737.vvxghxyacd57k73i@anna.jacobs.jacobs-university.de> <20190430090905.qsa3r4dwauilsxur@anna.jacobs.jacobs-university.de> <20190501111712.347bpz26br6ox3jp@anna.jacobs.jacobs-university.de> <20190501155321.v4qz6twsom45y62f@anna.jacobs.jacobs-university.de> <5CCA58DA.3030801@alumni.stanford.edu> <87v9yt58vi.fsf@nic.cz> In-Reply-To: <87v9yt58vi.fsf@nic.cz> Accept-Language: en-GB, en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-ms-exchange-transport-fromentityheader: Hosted x-originating-ip: [10.63.23.60] Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Outbound-SMTP-Client: 173.37.102.19, xch-rcd-009.cisco.com X-Outbound-Node: alln-core-1.cisco.com Archived-At: Subject: Re: [netmod] 6021 ipv4-prefix X-BeenThere: netmod@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: NETMOD WG list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 02 May 2019 16:32:55 -0000 > -----Original Message----- > From: netmod On Behalf Of Ladislav Lhotka > Sent: 02 May 2019 13:39 > To: Mikael Abrahamsson ; Randy Presuhn > > Cc: netmod@ietf.org > Subject: Re: [netmod] 6021 ipv4-prefix >=20 > Mikael Abrahamsson writes: >=20 > > On Wed, 1 May 2019, Randy Presuhn wrote: > > > >> Hi - > >> > >> On 5/1/2019 12:46 PM, Mikael Abrahamsson wrote: > >> .... > >>> Where is the text that tells the server implementor whether to throw > >>> an error when client commits non-zero bits, or to just throw the > >>> bits away and store the value in the canonical format? > >> > >> Such text would be an inappropriate constraint the server's internal > >> representation. We should only specify the externally-visible > >> behaviour: that the reported value will be in the canonical format. > >> Whether an implementation preserves extraneous cruft in its internal > >> representation is purely an implementation decision, and not subject > >> to standardization. > > > > I am talking about what goes on the wire. If the client does an > > edit-config with ipv6-prefix 2001:db8::1/64, should the server convert > > this into 2001:db8::/64 or throw an error on the edit-config operation. > > > > Jurgen seems to say it should convert it and not throw an error, and > > I'd like text to say that indeed, this is proper behaviour. Nobody has > > so far been able to tell me where this text currently is, so that's > > why I'm >=20 > If we agree that a type defines the set of legal on-the-wire values (poss= ibly > modulo representation - JSON/XML/...), then section 4.2.2.1 in RFC 7950 s= ays: >=20 > [A leaf instance] has exactly one value of a particular type ... >=20 > So why should a server throw an error if this is satisfied? I don't think that there is text for a derived type that defines a canonica= l representation that: (i) The server must internally treat the data as if it were in the canonica= l form (ii) If the data is returned then it must be in the canonical form. We should fix this in YANG 1.2 so this is clearer, but YANG 1.2 isn't going= to be here for a while. I don't think that we can do this as an erratum, = but perhaps the 6991bis could, for each type state that the it is handled e= quivalently to RFC 7950 section 9.1. Or would that just end up being noise= ? Thanks, Rob From nobody Thu May 2 16:15:45 2019 Return-Path: X-Original-To: netmod@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: netmod@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3EE4C120640 for ; Thu, 2 May 2019 16:15:43 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.9 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.9 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=yumaworks-com.20150623.gappssmtp.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id ciI66CxBc3ES for ; Thu, 2 May 2019 16:15:41 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail-lj1-x234.google.com (mail-lj1-x234.google.com [IPv6:2a00:1450:4864:20::234]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 397C012064A for ; Thu, 2 May 2019 16:15:41 -0700 (PDT) Received: by mail-lj1-x234.google.com with SMTP id z26so3755660ljj.2 for ; Thu, 02 May 2019 16:15:41 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=yumaworks-com.20150623.gappssmtp.com; s=20150623; h=mime-version:from:date:message-id:subject:to; bh=lYkG28xq2QthLLiGvJuW0vPe6ju6CGkyZgN1Fs23WD0=; b=1SVGwmjDtCgi45W8O0L5P5kCQoKvAmIAXUMStufMcNVg5+KRdqJGyjLokg+xeGeYwN moYPTLSJL9anNvZ81FzZU0XIBlELWuQAZ8fNcb29CrbRvDDJ0GArPkZZQoz05NkMBrlk o5c+7Bio8AU4a235fbhVFLn1bEjwyNsOvWMOn3+irDFsPOngMKVSEqoloOCNBH9lcf10 EdEz9GvWEDi/RGXorRx78uZ/4rkwipbizX/99tiQsfIXdCfejhiTzdLpAZ5GzENTgaCj mLkqqGN8131JKNzW7YJ4vPuRVWkAnn5zgIMtF4qIzX9ovltl1uf5setnN+txQr6CO62e QdUA== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:from:date:message-id:subject:to; bh=lYkG28xq2QthLLiGvJuW0vPe6ju6CGkyZgN1Fs23WD0=; b=BWulX9b45uBvUwlFicKsLCv4+kugTHAHjAQlQ6HaTvnLerqYqSB+LMOAUEa/wPYoQq FVya/6qc+Op/CI4nt1hmXIT5gt0LJHmSPHjAydw1rQE5aiuIIT4y7k7SXtTX3A/bTe2b 6AjNJUCs0QVuSL46l6uGrkPAqBw7IMzt4ZbB0gKD3l//di0L6lEa7bbK+45iS+ih3sMA utCqsZkb3iejAnCAUHjaYQDyI3n8HT8G/E9eYk3DWV5EeIdiiE95lxXwv6+rYROELIlP W8BUkHf9cVSCXWG+rZn4RhbHB65/IRb0wCxh5AKXNCsqIVJrPnxqvuOBnGXZrId7uFr7 aO4A== X-Gm-Message-State: APjAAAWotcmoLw4rjrO1fs7L6yyNymfPMGNXLDNpq5CMNRvoBe8VvatW 6Res8igC+ywxhZxyAodE6/3mXvgUr5U03UP87Ue57T1l7mbAlg== X-Google-Smtp-Source: APXvYqyyjYv4S4sgNc9vqiLtmq+nDFmRK5WonfJHQwjSCR1nA51HyAfsHPkLKoReE8PhZS3bBuV9XJf9g1HplstMQ0Y= X-Received: by 2002:a2e:9e9a:: with SMTP id f26mr910855ljk.170.1556838938845; Thu, 02 May 2019 16:15:38 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 From: Andy Bierman Date: Thu, 2 May 2019 16:15:28 -0700 Message-ID: To: NetMod WG Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="000000000000ec39a60587efcff9" Archived-At: Subject: [netmod] validating a YANG action X-BeenThere: netmod@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: NETMOD WG list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 02 May 2019 23:15:43 -0000 --000000000000ec39a60587efcff9 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Hi, The text about invoking actions in RFC 7950, sec. 7.15 is not clear about whether the ancestor data nodes have to exist. sec 7.15.2, para 2: The element contains a hierarchy of nodes that identifies the node in the datastore. The RFC does not say anything about if the data node is required to exist or not. There is no distinction between NP-container, P-container, or list which are ancestors of the action node. It does not specify which datastore, and that is not supplied in the RPC. The text specifies what must be in the request, not in any datastore or state data. It seems like the intent is that no instance test is specified at all and the corresponding ancestor nodes to the action node do not have to exist for the action to be invoked. (The action may succeed or fail). The issue is whether there is an existence-test before invoking the action. Andy --000000000000ec39a60587efcff9 Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Hi,

The text about invoking actions in = RFC 7950, sec. 7.15 is not clear
about whether the ancestor data = nodes have to exist.

sec 7.15.2, para 2:
   The <action>=
 element contains a hierarchy of nodes that identifies the node in the data=
store. 

The RFC does not say anything about if the data node is required to
<= div>exist or not.=C2=A0 There is no distinction between NP-container, P-con= tainer,
or list which are ancestors of the action node. It does n= ot specify
which datastore, and that is not supplied in the <a= ction> RPC.
The text specifies what must be in the <rpc>= request, not in any datastore or state data.

It s= eems like the intent is that no instance test is specified at all and
=
the corresponding ancestor nodes to the action node do not have to
exist for the action to be invoked. (The action may succeed or fail)= .
The issue is whether there is an existence-test before invoking= the action.

Andy


--000000000000ec39a60587efcff9-- From nobody Thu May 2 22:57:33 2019 Return-Path: X-Original-To: netmod@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: netmod@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id AD05312006D for ; Thu, 2 May 2019 22:57:31 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.9 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.9 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id v8jS1FukSiFz for ; Thu, 2 May 2019 22:57:29 -0700 (PDT) Received: from atlas5.jacobs-university.de (atlas5.jacobs-university.de [212.201.44.20]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher AECDH-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id D7AB1120059 for ; Thu, 2 May 2019 22:57:28 -0700 (PDT) Received: from localhost (demetrius5.irc-it.jacobs-university.de [10.70.0.222]) by atlas5.jacobs-university.de (Postfix) with ESMTP id AC311DA9; Fri, 3 May 2019 07:57:26 +0200 (CEST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at jacobs-university.de Received: from atlas5.jacobs-university.de ([10.70.0.217]) by localhost (demetrius5.jacobs-university.de [10.70.0.222]) (amavisd-new, port 10032) with ESMTP id CzjmgSwlY4Wr; Fri, 3 May 2019 07:57:26 +0200 (CEST) Received: from hermes.jacobs-university.de (hermes.jacobs-university.de [212.201.44.23]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (Client CN "hermes.jacobs-university.de", Issuer "Jacobs University CA - G01" (verified OK)) by atlas5.jacobs-university.de (Postfix) with ESMTPS; Fri, 3 May 2019 07:57:26 +0200 (CEST) Received: from localhost (demetrius5.irc-it.jacobs-university.de [10.70.0.222]) by hermes.jacobs-university.de (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6C808200E3; Fri, 3 May 2019 07:57:26 +0200 (CEST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at jacobs-university.de Received: from hermes.jacobs-university.de ([212.201.44.23]) by localhost (demetrius5.jacobs-university.de [10.70.0.222]) (amavisd-new, port 10028) with ESMTP id ZdAJq0IhQOrK; Fri, 3 May 2019 07:57:26 +0200 (CEST) Received: from exchange.jacobs-university.de (SXCHMB01.jacobs.jacobs-university.de [10.70.0.120]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (Client CN "exchange.jacobs-university.de", Issuer "DFN-Verein Global Issuing CA" (verified OK)) by hermes.jacobs-university.de (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 2954D200E1; Fri, 3 May 2019 07:57:26 +0200 (CEST) Received: from anna.localdomain (10.50.218.117) by sxchmb03.jacobs.jacobs-university.de (10.70.0.155) with Microsoft SMTP Server (version=TLS1_2, cipher=TLS_ECDHE_RSA_WITH_AES_256_GCM_SHA384) id 15.1.1713.5; Fri, 3 May 2019 07:57:25 +0200 Received: by anna.localdomain (Postfix, from userid 501) id 2FAAC3008BC30F; Fri, 3 May 2019 07:57:24 +0200 (CEST) Date: Fri, 3 May 2019 07:57:24 +0200 From: Juergen Schoenwaelder To: Andy Bierman CC: NetMod WG Message-ID: <20190503055724.723voy7swdito3bv@anna.jacobs.jacobs-university.de> Reply-To: Juergen Schoenwaelder Mail-Followup-To: Andy Bierman , NetMod WG References: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: User-Agent: NeoMutt/20180716 X-ClientProxiedBy: SXCHMB01.jacobs.jacobs-university.de (10.70.0.120) To sxchmb03.jacobs.jacobs-university.de (10.70.0.155) Archived-At: Subject: Re: [netmod] validating a YANG action X-BeenThere: netmod@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: NETMOD WG list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 03 May 2019 05:57:32 -0000 On Thu, May 02, 2019 at 04:15:28PM -0700, Andy Bierman wrote: > Hi, > > The text about invoking actions in RFC 7950, sec. 7.15 is not clear > about whether the ancestor data nodes have to exist. > > sec 7.15.2, para 2: > > The element contains a hierarchy of nodes that identifies > the node in the datastore. > > > The RFC does not say anything about if the data node is required to > exist or not. There is no distinction between NP-container, P-container, > or list which are ancestors of the action node. It does not specify > which datastore, and that is not supplied in the RPC. > The text specifies what must be in the request, not in any datastore > or state data. > > It seems like the intent is that no instance test is specified at all and > the corresponding ancestor nodes to the action node do not have to > exist for the action to be invoked. (The action may succeed or fail). > The issue is whether there is an existence-test before invoking the action. We discussed actions during the work on NMDA. RFC 8342 has this text in section 6, in particular 6.1 says: Actions are always invoked in the context of the operational state datastore. The node for which the action is invoked MUST exist in the operational state datastore. /js -- Juergen Schoenwaelder Jacobs University Bremen gGmbH Phone: +49 421 200 3587 Campus Ring 1 | 28759 Bremen | Germany Fax: +49 421 200 3103 From nobody Fri May 3 01:02:44 2019 Return-Path: X-Original-To: netmod@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: netmod@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id D10A8120052 for ; Fri, 3 May 2019 01:02:42 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.9 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.9 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id oSy7rlxWonT9 for ; Fri, 3 May 2019 01:02:39 -0700 (PDT) Received: from trail.lhotka.name (trail.lhotka.name [77.48.224.143]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id E812E1200C4 for ; Fri, 3 May 2019 01:02:37 -0700 (PDT) Received: by trail.lhotka.name (Postfix, from userid 109) id D519A182044E; Fri, 3 May 2019 10:02:09 +0200 (CEST) Received: from localhost (nat-1.nic.cz [217.31.205.1]) by trail.lhotka.name (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id C63F11820045; Fri, 3 May 2019 10:02:06 +0200 (CEST) From: Ladislav Lhotka To: Robert Varga , "Rob Wilton \(rwilton\)" , Juergen Schoenwaelder , NETMOD WG In-Reply-To: References: <5ccb99db35514088986ff3a396746c7c@XCH-RCD-007.cisco.com> <87sgtx57ad.fsf@nic.cz> Mail-Followup-To: Robert Varga , "Rob Wilton \(rwilton\)" , Juergen Schoenwaelder , NETMOD WG Date: Fri, 03 May 2019 10:02:32 +0200 Message-ID: <87sgtwq82v.fsf@nic.cz> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Archived-At: Subject: Re: [netmod] Canonical value representations in typedefs [was RE: 6021 ipv4-prefix] X-BeenThere: netmod@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: NETMOD WG list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 03 May 2019 08:02:43 -0000 Robert Varga writes: > On 02/05/2019 15:12, Ladislav Lhotka wrote: >>> But this really means that YANG has two sorts of typedefs: >>> >>> (i) A regular typedef which is just an alias for a base type, perhaps with some additional refinements that can all be handled automatically (e.g. pattern statements, etc). In this scenario, I think that a compiler can ignore the description, and process the typedef automatically. >>> (ii) An enhanced typedef that has additional semantics embedded into the description statement that requires custom implementation of the typedef. >>> >>> Being able to distinguish these two cases in a programmatic way seems >>> useful to me, but perhaps it is just unnecessary noise. >> YANG assumes "powerful" descriptions in general. An option would be to find a way for specifying the canonical >> format in a machine-readable form. > > The way I understand typedefs (and use of restricted types in > leaf/leaf-list) as that the first such use defines a value domain and > any further references must strictly refer to a subset of that domain. > > Notably it does not seem to be sane to redefine the canonical format > once it has been set. > > I think the entire canonical format problem comes from the fact > ipv4-address is, unlike case (i), only a representation of a value > domain which is semantically 32 bits. > > That value domain has two functions that are different from plain old > string: > - equality > - total ordering > > Canonical representation deals with the first one, while also providing > interoperability with XPath. There is no current mechanism to address > the second one. Yes. XML schema languages use the concept of lexical vs. value space, it is more general and more robust that the concept of canonical format. > > I find having a machine-readable marker (such as an extension) that a > value domain is being defined immediately useful -- it allows the > compiler to warn that a specific typedef needs additional work to get it > working as intended. This one's really easy. > > Having some (other) machine-readable marker of how a canonical value > looks like (i.e. similar to pattern) is also useful: it allows the > runtime to check if an incoming value is in canonical format and accept > it irrespective whether specific value domain support (from above) is > present or not. This one is moderately hard. > > Finally, some third marker, which would describe how to transform a > non-canonical string into a canonical string would obviously be awesome, > as now the runtime can work automatically. This one is really hard, > especially since the operations probably involve operating not on a > string, but some other representation. I liked the idea developed by Jeni Tennison for DSDL: https://slideplayer.com/slide/15172219/ (tl;dr: see slide 33). It seems though that this idea didn't materialize. Lada > > As in implementer, I really care about the first two -- they are easy to > do and provide immense value in making things work 'out of the box' and > automatically catching cases when they do not. > > Regards, > Robert > > _______________________________________________ > netmod mailing list > netmod@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/netmod -- Ladislav Lhotka Head, CZ.NIC Labs PGP Key ID: 0xB8F92B08A9F76C67 From nobody Fri May 3 01:11:15 2019 Return-Path: X-Original-To: netmod@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: netmod@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id AD3631200A0 for ; Fri, 3 May 2019 01:11:13 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.9 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.9 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=yumaworks-com.20150623.gappssmtp.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id gS8ZvnzgCZRn for ; Fri, 3 May 2019 01:11:12 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail-lj1-x232.google.com (mail-lj1-x232.google.com [IPv6:2a00:1450:4864:20::232]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 93D5A12004D for ; Fri, 3 May 2019 01:11:11 -0700 (PDT) Received: by mail-lj1-x232.google.com with SMTP id t1so4479067lje.10 for ; Fri, 03 May 2019 01:11:11 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=yumaworks-com.20150623.gappssmtp.com; s=20150623; h=mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date:message-id:subject:to; bh=dlaniv00kTfOjlb4YWTSYQTOJyQ6h4qe1yRs4VjzYl0=; b=MnKmyKF3VUN5Fr2eXMyEXK1cqJJ6KcXJHIezqvv6ANq+tEgSN9i4WOD/Sh3dQfwrZ8 0kQ75GaCFzhje+IoSddJpM6lyQ5WpFToATAaq4Rb8B9zQdcHtX/7CqSMElZ6NM1Q5A8k aPIaNB/MX0KlQLxAcbFmQTieIdJBMBNiksmyezghx1SYOy6xxayisGyAHNRiFGco2NJB LBrF8nTNcJlN2wcohDCdRBL5Q/2DdKnZ0bHveWqxBXsioOg0rKYin0w/6MHbc4BIGMVR LI5fyFJdmHdgPFLIPjwzhjUpH/de81JHWNcoaUuw6sb06Eh854b6vYnaKRbLbY+hgXC7 /hJQ== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date :message-id:subject:to; bh=dlaniv00kTfOjlb4YWTSYQTOJyQ6h4qe1yRs4VjzYl0=; b=bNhG3fp2v1alSYR2mpkW/tCdZ4Viwo5KkYhVmL98duVpJceQ/1KEq0ZtN68NKnf6gD +YRVfeRS6DFzk08du/CeVLACsHbNYJtWc9ujmk/uRHfqHKYWmmpQ3dyMEsH8YwXB17V0 SJrhJIjpHexhNJ6oQSdT9Ou98u0dwTKarhCOzq9wuf7A0/oHRiUW30JO3mTaHMkM+mT+ ER1Lt69qLSDAF4azwDk184cwvpolrcxXKsWReeuI/razyqBd1kb00cADoB+3XnYVhYvL xTjNbHnUDTK+PRnwwhTuX9eY+fFK7pdtpT9NAAGbQV7Gj5bqwGOfztJp495a10yQ0eVm PFdg== X-Gm-Message-State: APjAAAUoqutB7Y7Ad+ZSDl3jEPyCtNTnb1B6PRMcclbWGQiAkjzVKCEt X7Zni2vjuZU/gSZgeTfyB8wL8b3myyaHlPnH2GbOuA== X-Google-Smtp-Source: APXvYqzMuhKUVc3zqleD3/9HOjUbUmdhbqu+S/DKntWRSml1ITS3W7eh7ipPqPq5Bht3WFWWhtXV59JvN1S1MhEwxwU= X-Received: by 2002:a2e:9e4d:: with SMTP id g13mr4345160ljk.12.1556871069575; Fri, 03 May 2019 01:11:09 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 References: <20190503055724.723voy7swdito3bv@anna.jacobs.jacobs-university.de> In-Reply-To: <20190503055724.723voy7swdito3bv@anna.jacobs.jacobs-university.de> From: Andy Bierman Date: Fri, 3 May 2019 01:10:58 -0700 Message-ID: To: Juergen Schoenwaelder , Andy Bierman , NetMod WG Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="0000000000001044310587f74bd1" Archived-At: Subject: Re: [netmod] validating a YANG action X-BeenThere: netmod@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: NETMOD WG list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 03 May 2019 08:11:14 -0000 --0000000000001044310587f74bd1 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" On Thu, May 2, 2019 at 10:57 PM Juergen Schoenwaelder < j.schoenwaelder@jacobs-university.de> wrote: > On Thu, May 02, 2019 at 04:15:28PM -0700, Andy Bierman wrote: > > Hi, > > > > The text about invoking actions in RFC 7950, sec. 7.15 is not clear > > about whether the ancestor data nodes have to exist. > > > > sec 7.15.2, para 2: > > > > The element contains a hierarchy of nodes that identifies > > the node in the datastore. > > > > > > The RFC does not say anything about if the data node is required to > > exist or not. There is no distinction between NP-container, P-container, > > or list which are ancestors of the action node. It does not specify > > which datastore, and that is not supplied in the RPC. > > The text specifies what must be in the request, not in any > datastore > > or state data. > > > > It seems like the intent is that no instance test is specified at all and > > the corresponding ancestor nodes to the action node do not have to > > exist for the action to be invoked. (The action may succeed or fail). > > The issue is whether there is an existence-test before invoking the > action. > > We discussed actions during the work on NMDA. RFC 8342 has this text > in section 6, in particular 6.1 says: > > Actions are always invoked in the context of the operational state > datastore. The node for which the action is invoked MUST exist in > the operational state datastore. > > This only applies to a server implementing NMDA. There is no requirement for a server implementing RFC 7950 to make this test. > /js > > Andy > -- > Juergen Schoenwaelder Jacobs University Bremen gGmbH > Phone: +49 421 200 3587 Campus Ring 1 | 28759 Bremen | Germany > Fax: +49 421 200 3103 > --0000000000001044310587f74bd1 Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable


=
On Thu, May 2, 2019 at 10:57 PM Juerg= en Schoenwaelder <j.schoenwaelder@jacobs-university.de> wrote:
On Thu, May 02, 2019 at 04:15:28PM -0= 700, Andy Bierman wrote:
> Hi,
>
> The text about invoking actions in RFC 7950, sec. 7.15 is not clear > about whether the ancestor data nodes have to exist.
>
> sec 7.15.2, para 2:
>
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 The <action> element contains a hierarchy of nodes = that identifies
> the node in the datastore.
>
>
> The RFC does not say anything about if the data node is required to > exist or not.=C2=A0 There is no distinction between NP-container, P-co= ntainer,
> or list which are ancestors of the action node. It does not specify > which datastore, and that is not supplied in the <action> RPC. > The text specifies what must be in the <rpc> request, not in any= datastore
> or state data.
>
> It seems like the intent is that no instance test is specified at all = and
> the corresponding ancestor nodes to the action node do not have to
> exist for the action to be invoked. (The action may succeed or fail).<= br> > The issue is whether there is an existence-test before invoking the ac= tion.

We discussed actions during the work on NMDA. RFC 8342 has this text
in section 6, in particular 6.1 says:

=C2=A0 =C2=A0Actions are always invoked in the context of the operational s= tate
=C2=A0 =C2=A0datastore.=C2=A0 The node for which the action is invoked MUST= exist in
=C2=A0 =C2=A0the operational state datastore.


This only applies to a server implemen= ting NMDA.
There is no requirement for a server implementing RFC = 7950 to make this test.
=C2=A0
/js


Andy
=C2=A0
--
Juergen Schoenwaelder=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0Jacobs Univer= sity Bremen gGmbH
Phone: +49 421 200 3587=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0Campus Ring 1 | 28= 759 Bremen | Germany
Fax:=C2=A0 =C2=A0+49 421 200 3103=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0<https://www.jacobs-university.de/>
--0000000000001044310587f74bd1-- From nobody Fri May 3 01:23:15 2019 Return-Path: X-Original-To: netmod@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: netmod@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4C3171200C4 for ; Fri, 3 May 2019 01:23:13 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.9 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.9 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id JSKATq8iv-vm for ; Fri, 3 May 2019 01:23:11 -0700 (PDT) Received: from trail.lhotka.name (trail.lhotka.name [77.48.224.143]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3F5EC12004D for ; Fri, 3 May 2019 01:23:11 -0700 (PDT) Received: by trail.lhotka.name (Postfix, from userid 109) id 8DD26182044A; Fri, 3 May 2019 10:22:43 +0200 (CEST) Received: from localhost (nat-1.nic.cz [217.31.205.1]) by trail.lhotka.name (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 4AABE1820045; Fri, 3 May 2019 10:22:40 +0200 (CEST) From: Ladislav Lhotka To: "Rob Wilton \(rwilton\)" , Mikael Abrahamsson , Randy Presuhn Cc: "netmod\@ietf.org" In-Reply-To: <76a384e8d3f7487e865e7dd6ad0e4c4f@XCH-RCD-007.cisco.com> References: <0c4265d31adbf208a680f76216cc4bc42c766eae.camel@nic.cz> <959ed1a8092f4798ac0b923384962049@XCH-RCD-007.cisco.com> <20190429153643.oxfcq7ze6ttdihb4@anna.jacobs.jacobs-university.de> <20190430061737.vvxghxyacd57k73i@anna.jacobs.jacobs-university.de> <20190430090905.qsa3r4dwauilsxur@anna.jacobs.jacobs-university.de> <20190501111712.347bpz26br6ox3jp@anna.jacobs.jacobs-university.de> <20190501155321.v4qz6twsom45y62f@anna.jacobs.jacobs-university.de> <5CCA58DA.3030801@alumni.stanford.edu> <87v9yt58vi.fsf@nic.cz> <76a384e8d3f7487e865e7dd6ad0e4c4f@XCH-RCD-007.cisco.com> Mail-Followup-To: "Rob Wilton \(rwilton\)" , Mikael Abrahamsson , Randy Presuhn , "netmod\@ietf.org" Date: Fri, 03 May 2019 10:23:01 +0200 Message-ID: <87pnp0q74q.fsf@nic.cz> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Archived-At: Subject: Re: [netmod] 6021 ipv4-prefix X-BeenThere: netmod@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: NETMOD WG list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 03 May 2019 08:23:13 -0000 "Rob Wilton (rwilton)" writes: >> -----Original Message----- >> From: netmod On Behalf Of Ladislav Lhotka >> Sent: 02 May 2019 13:39 >> To: Mikael Abrahamsson ; Randy Presuhn >> >> Cc: netmod@ietf.org >> Subject: Re: [netmod] 6021 ipv4-prefix >> >> Mikael Abrahamsson writes: >> >> > On Wed, 1 May 2019, Randy Presuhn wrote: >> > >> >> Hi - >> >> >> >> On 5/1/2019 12:46 PM, Mikael Abrahamsson wrote: >> >> .... >> >>> Where is the text that tells the server implementor whether to throw >> >>> an error when client commits non-zero bits, or to just throw the >> >>> bits away and store the value in the canonical format? >> >> >> >> Such text would be an inappropriate constraint the server's internal >> >> representation. We should only specify the externally-visible >> >> behaviour: that the reported value will be in the canonical format. >> >> Whether an implementation preserves extraneous cruft in its internal >> >> representation is purely an implementation decision, and not subject >> >> to standardization. >> > >> > I am talking about what goes on the wire. If the client does an >> > edit-config with ipv6-prefix 2001:db8::1/64, should the server convert >> > this into 2001:db8::/64 or throw an error on the edit-config operation. >> > >> > Jurgen seems to say it should convert it and not throw an error, and >> > I'd like text to say that indeed, this is proper behaviour. Nobody has >> > so far been able to tell me where this text currently is, so that's >> > why I'm >> >> If we agree that a type defines the set of legal on-the-wire values (possibly >> modulo representation - JSON/XML/...), then section 4.2.2.1 in RFC 7950 says: >> >> [A leaf instance] has exactly one value of a particular type ... >> >> So why should a server throw an error if this is satisfied? > > I don't think that there is text for a derived type that defines a canonical representation that: > (i) The server must internally treat the data as if it were in the canonical form > (ii) If the data is returned then it must be in the canonical form. The text is in subsection 9.1, which really should have been outside sec. 9 (Built-In Types), and applicable to derived types as well. But anyway, Mikael wrote about the case when the client sends a value (specifically, belonging to the ipv6-prefix type) that is NOT in the canonical format. Lada > > We should fix this in YANG 1.2 so this is clearer, but YANG 1.2 isn't going to be here for a while. I don't think that we can do this as an erratum, but perhaps the 6991bis could, for each type state that the it is handled equivalently to RFC 7950 section 9.1. Or would that just end up being noise? > > Thanks, > Rob > -- Ladislav Lhotka Head, CZ.NIC Labs PGP Key ID: 0xB8F92B08A9F76C67 From nobody Fri May 3 02:20:20 2019 Return-Path: X-Original-To: netmod@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: netmod@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 83E0B1200D7 for ; Fri, 3 May 2019 02:20:18 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.9 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.9 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 4ff0EncIGWHe for ; Fri, 3 May 2019 02:20:16 -0700 (PDT) Received: from atlas5.jacobs-university.de (atlas5.jacobs-university.de [212.201.44.20]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher AECDH-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id A895E12006D for ; Fri, 3 May 2019 02:20:15 -0700 (PDT) Received: from localhost (demetrius5.irc-it.jacobs-university.de [10.70.0.222]) by atlas5.jacobs-university.de (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7190A4C7; Fri, 3 May 2019 11:20:14 +0200 (CEST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at jacobs-university.de Received: from atlas5.jacobs-university.de ([10.70.0.217]) by localhost (demetrius5.jacobs-university.de [10.70.0.222]) (amavisd-new, port 10032) with ESMTP id Pp9pxagwSP37; Fri, 3 May 2019 11:20:14 +0200 (CEST) Received: from hermes.jacobs-university.de (hermes.jacobs-university.de [212.201.44.23]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (Client CN "hermes.jacobs-university.de", Issuer "Jacobs University CA - G01" (verified OK)) by atlas5.jacobs-university.de (Postfix) with ESMTPS; Fri, 3 May 2019 11:20:14 +0200 (CEST) Received: from localhost (demetrius5.irc-it.jacobs-university.de [10.70.0.222]) by hermes.jacobs-university.de (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5C85E200E8; Fri, 3 May 2019 11:20:14 +0200 (CEST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at jacobs-university.de Received: from hermes.jacobs-university.de ([212.201.44.23]) by localhost (demetrius5.jacobs-university.de [10.70.0.222]) (amavisd-new, port 10028) with ESMTP id kgP2qFGki33q; Fri, 3 May 2019 11:20:14 +0200 (CEST) Received: from exchange.jacobs-university.de (SXCHMB01.jacobs.jacobs-university.de [10.70.0.120]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (Client CN "exchange.jacobs-university.de", Issuer "DFN-Verein Global Issuing CA" (verified OK)) by hermes.jacobs-university.de (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 091F2200E1; Fri, 3 May 2019 11:20:14 +0200 (CEST) Received: from anna.localdomain (10.50.218.117) by sxchmb03.jacobs.jacobs-university.de (10.70.0.155) with Microsoft SMTP Server (version=TLS1_2, cipher=TLS_ECDHE_RSA_WITH_AES_256_GCM_SHA384) id 15.1.1713.5; Fri, 3 May 2019 11:20:13 +0200 Received: by anna.localdomain (Postfix, from userid 501) id 301193008BC9AD; Fri, 3 May 2019 11:20:12 +0200 (CEST) Date: Fri, 3 May 2019 11:20:12 +0200 From: Juergen Schoenwaelder To: Andy Bierman CC: NetMod WG Message-ID: <20190503092012.gb2zzqggb2igzs37@anna.jacobs.jacobs-university.de> Reply-To: Juergen Schoenwaelder Mail-Followup-To: Andy Bierman , NetMod WG References: <20190503055724.723voy7swdito3bv@anna.jacobs.jacobs-university.de> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: User-Agent: NeoMutt/20180716 X-ClientProxiedBy: SXCHMB04.jacobs.jacobs-university.de (10.70.0.156) To sxchmb03.jacobs.jacobs-university.de (10.70.0.155) Archived-At: Subject: Re: [netmod] validating a YANG action X-BeenThere: netmod@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: NETMOD WG list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 03 May 2019 09:20:19 -0000 On Fri, May 03, 2019 at 01:10:58AM -0700, Andy Bierman wrote: > On Thu, May 2, 2019 at 10:57 PM Juergen Schoenwaelder < > j.schoenwaelder@jacobs-university.de> wrote: > > > On Thu, May 02, 2019 at 04:15:28PM -0700, Andy Bierman wrote: > > > Hi, > > > > > > The text about invoking actions in RFC 7950, sec. 7.15 is not clear > > > about whether the ancestor data nodes have to exist. > > > > > > sec 7.15.2, para 2: > > > > > > The element contains a hierarchy of nodes that identifies > > > the node in the datastore. > > > > > > > > > The RFC does not say anything about if the data node is required to > > > exist or not. There is no distinction between NP-container, P-container, > > > or list which are ancestors of the action node. It does not specify > > > which datastore, and that is not supplied in the RPC. > > > The text specifies what must be in the request, not in any > > datastore > > > or state data. > > > > > > It seems like the intent is that no instance test is specified at all and > > > the corresponding ancestor nodes to the action node do not have to > > > exist for the action to be invoked. (The action may succeed or fail). > > > The issue is whether there is an existence-test before invoking the > > action. > > > > We discussed actions during the work on NMDA. RFC 8342 has this text > > in section 6, in particular 6.1 says: > > > > Actions are always invoked in the context of the operational state > > datastore. The node for which the action is invoked MUST exist in > > the operational state datastore. > > > > > This only applies to a server implementing NMDA. > There is no requirement for a server implementing RFC 7950 to make this > test. > Yes, the behavior is unspecified in RFC 7950. However, note that RFC 8342 formally updates RFC 7950 and the Introduction section says: This document updates RFC 7950 by refining the definition of the accessible tree for some XML Path Language (XPath) context (see Section 6.1) and the invocation context of operations (see Section 6.2). This update may not affect your implementation but since you asked whether there is an existence-test before invoking the action, I thought a pointer to RFC 8342 is perhaps relevant. /js -- Juergen Schoenwaelder Jacobs University Bremen gGmbH Phone: +49 421 200 3587 Campus Ring 1 | 28759 Bremen | Germany Fax: +49 421 200 3103 From nobody Fri May 3 03:44:00 2019 Return-Path: X-Original-To: netmod@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: netmod@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4509B12009A for ; Fri, 3 May 2019 03:43:58 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -4.201 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-4.201 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-2.3, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id HPd9T7jl-JiU for ; Fri, 3 May 2019 03:43:54 -0700 (PDT) Received: from de-out1.bosch-org.com (de-out1.bosch-org.com [139.15.230.186]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher AECDH-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 45944120026 for ; Fri, 3 May 2019 03:43:53 -0700 (PDT) Received: from fe0vm1650.rbesz01.com (unknown [139.15.230.188]) by fe0vms0187.rbdmz01.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 44wTJR18bSz1XLDR3; Fri, 3 May 2019 12:43:51 +0200 (CEST) Received: from si0vm4642.rbesz01.com (unknown [10.58.172.176]) by fe0vm1650.rbesz01.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 44wTJR0trQz1CW; Fri, 3 May 2019 12:43:51 +0200 (CEST) X-AuditID: 0a3aad12-be3ff70000006e39-c8-5ccc1b66cf72 Received: from si0vm1950.rbesz01.com ( [10.58.173.29]) (using TLS with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (Client did not present a certificate) by si0vm4642.rbesz01.com (SMG Outbound) with SMTP id 86.74.28217.66B1CCC5; Fri, 3 May 2019 12:43:50 +0200 (CEST) Received: from SI-MBX2054.de.bosch.com (unknown [10.3.230.148]) by si0vm1950.rbesz01.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 44wTJQ69lcz52c; Fri, 3 May 2019 12:43:50 +0200 (CEST) Received: from SI-MBX2054.de.bosch.com (10.3.230.148) by SI-MBX2054.de.bosch.com (10.3.230.148) with Microsoft SMTP Server (version=TLS1_2, cipher=TLS_ECDHE_RSA_WITH_AES_256_GCM_SHA384) id 15.1.1713.5; Fri, 3 May 2019 12:43:50 +0200 Received: from SI-MBX2054.de.bosch.com ([fe80::187:74e0:f8c8:c9b1]) by SI-MBX2054.de.bosch.com ([fe80::187:74e0:f8c8:c9b1%4]) with mapi id 15.01.1713.006; Fri, 3 May 2019 12:43:50 +0200 From: "Schwarz Albrecht (ETAS/ESY1)" To: Juergen Schoenwaelder , Andy Bierman CC: NetMod WG Thread-Topic: Management Protocol Roles: Client/Server vs Manager/Agent Thread-Index: AdUBk3PTS+EcD5D1QwG4flUjTOYwHw== Date: Fri, 3 May 2019 10:43:50 +0000 Message-ID: <941c9e23c3274dcdbca21c22348ca04f@etas.com> Accept-Language: de-DE, en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-originating-ip: [10.1.129.237] Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Brightmail-Tracker: H4sIAAAAAAAAA21TfUwbdRjur9ePo/bYcVD6rh3B1BnjVynYKZHFbCZmIG4zTmeijXqMo+3W D9IrDIgmUDZlhI2FsQ2rG37AJHOODw1hphuskCik4oaudnXZ5mRDGCMShK0DwTuurP3Df355 3ud9nuf93fvL4Rh1FNfgVoebcTlom06mkCie/ybt6SJtwGToOJeTfX3AK8++1BlB2c0Xq6Qb sNyWlog4t6MvL3dP/UXJq9hbivWFjM1ayrgyXnhPYQmEfVjx4mNlcw3t8ko0k16LcBxII/SO v16LFDhFNonh6O0vpUJxCsHBuT0yoZhCMBcORYuzCMavtYtrUQIuIzfAYLBaxuMUkoE7V05g PMbIdDh0b3pZk0y+CN/3d0kFzSb4p64yqtfDQl3rsl5CrgVfzz7EY4J8DoJt1XIeIzINOjp+ jmaqITzavJwJJAktPoEHUgXjfy5KBfwwjPV0iwW9HkKHG2UCfhJOfH4bE/KTYPDjUclBpPLG xXrjLN44izfO8hmSnEQq1mootRufNWbpXQUMW2HI1O9w2ruQ8DxUD+oMFvkRiSOdkvhBETBR UrqULbf70TpcrFMRBhVHJRY4C8stNGt511ViY1idhlhz4WUTlfyAZksK7FaWtTodfgQ4pksh 3pkeMlFEIV1ewbicgs2PtLhEpybM+FYTRZppN7OLYYoZ10o3B8d1QNzScAOTXIyZKSuy2twr bV0agUQiEZUa34kfK8YT/OgZXMnNFvERBFtM21mrOWpfLdipFTZmHUJb8b4v/jiG4YN3+fNA 561jGCVxOB2MRk3k8Fkk77KUOB7cRrOGGFZyDVVcI5Y4gUKI22cyoV3NaZTcHxG7BxBafnVJ UTJmymrhPORIKnx6YzNEProghoVr8xJoOrtXCg1Nx+Wwd/a6HGbDwzicHmlNgHuTVxOgfanm IfhxoJ47Qn1KqAr3K6GhdUgJkflzBLS13yRgwPNJIlw+6U+E3sihVdD93cgqmPV0J0HN/UsU HPeNJUNosl8Fo/9OquDq1N8q+HV/bypcmbmZCkuN+9QwsXReDW3jw2qo8fpggtuxmNvxWAP/ vqybdv/PjqNs7OM0lciyQ4m17TzwPum4m7jwZr4+ZbF/S8Bi83i2zVRPBXb+/tdTj//y4SPh 4JmZgteYrKAhQzxnyv8p89v7Y7uGK37b+IqITd9Y17jbeEdk7godmd+d5z3c6nET2x49M51e q15b9UbeB287m8u+rl+foV1XeoOt237q/H7ndnjpNFw2bsr/SidhLXTmE5iLpf8DpE/7M6oE AAA= Archived-At: Subject: [netmod] Management Protocol Roles: Client/Server vs Manager/Agent X-BeenThere: netmod@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: NETMOD WG list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 03 May 2019 10:43:58 -0000 Hello Andy, Juergen, I got a side question for clarification (which was perhaps already discusse= d years ago on the list, but I'm just starting to follow NETCONF & NETMOD a= ctivities): The management paradigm and management association is related to roles (Man= agement) Manager (or Master) and (Management) Agents, in an hierarchical re= lationship of 1:N concerning the ratio of Manager to Agents. That's the usual case, being aware of the exceptional cases with e.g. M:N (= or additional, interim Management Broker, Gateway, etc entities). I would have expected that=20 - the Management Data Modeling language (YANG), - the Management Datastore Architecture (RFC 8342), - a Network Configuration Access Control Model (RFC 8341) and even - Network Management Protocols for YANG data (such as NETCONF, RESTCONF) use the role model of Manager and Agent. However, I do see only the role relationship Client/Server (in that RFCs), = hm? Leading (for me) to a principle dilemma from (management) protocol engineer= ing perspective due to a) Manager-to-Agent =3D 1:N b) Client-to-Server =3D N:1 c) and the mapping approach in NETCONF/NETMOD of Manager-to-Client and Agen= t-to-Server in my understanding. I'm being aware that a distributed management solution needs to resolve the= various role assignments in a layered management communication architectur= e at the various levels, e.g., for Management Application MA-over-RESTCONF-over-HTTP-over-TCP-over- ... as 1) Application level (MA): Manager to Agent(s) 2) Application layer management protocol =3D RESTCONF: Manager to Agent(s) 3) Session layer =3D HTTP: Client(s) to Server 4) Transport layer =3D TCP: Client(s) to Server I fail to see, or do miss the background/justification why the notion of cl= ient/server is used in RFCs about YANG, NMDA, NETCONF? Instead of manager/a= gent. Does anyone know the motivation, background? Thanks, Albrecht Mit freundlichen Gr=FC=DFen / Best regards Dr. Albrecht Schwarz Systems Engineering (ETAS/ESY1)=20 Tel. +49 711 3423-2380 | Mobil +49 173 9792 632 | Albrecht.Schwarz@etas.com -----Original Message----- From: netmod On Behalf Of Juergen Schoenwaelder Sent: 03 May 2019 11:20 To: Andy Bierman Cc: NetMod WG Subject: Re: [netmod] validating a YANG action On Fri, May 03, 2019 at 01:10:58AM -0700, Andy Bierman wrote: > On Thu, May 2, 2019 at 10:57 PM Juergen Schoenwaelder <=20 > j.schoenwaelder@jacobs-university.de> wrote: >=20 > > On Thu, May 02, 2019 at 04:15:28PM -0700, Andy Bierman wrote: > > > Hi, > > > > > > The text about invoking actions in RFC 7950, sec. 7.15 is not=20 > > > clear about whether the ancestor data nodes have to exist. > > > > > > sec 7.15.2, para 2: > > > > > > The element contains a hierarchy of nodes that=20 > > > identifies the node in the datastore. > > > > > > > > > The RFC does not say anything about if the data node is required=20 > > > to exist or not. There is no distinction between NP-container,=20 > > > P-container, or list which are ancestors of the action node. It=20 > > > does not specify which datastore, and that is not supplied in the RPC. > > > The text specifies what must be in the request, not in any > > datastore > > > or state data. > > > > > > It seems like the intent is that no instance test is specified at=20 > > > all and the corresponding ancestor nodes to the action node do not=20 > > > have to exist for the action to be invoked. (The action may succeed o= r fail). > > > The issue is whether there is an existence-test before invoking=20 > > > the > > action. > > > > We discussed actions during the work on NMDA. RFC 8342 has this text=20 > > in section 6, in particular 6.1 says: > > > > Actions are always invoked in the context of the operational state > > datastore. The node for which the action is invoked MUST exist in > > the operational state datastore. > > > > > This only applies to a server implementing NMDA. > There is no requirement for a server implementing RFC 7950 to make=20 > this test. > Yes, the behavior is unspecified in RFC 7950. However, note that RFC 8342 formally updates RFC 7950 and the Introduction section says: This document updates RFC 7950 by refining the definition of the accessible tree for some XML Path Language (XPath) context (see Section 6.1) and the invocation context of operations (see Section 6.2). This update may not affect your implementation but since you asked whether = there is an existence-test before invoking the action, I thought a pointer = to RFC 8342 is perhaps relevant. /js --=20 Juergen Schoenwaelder Jacobs University Bremen gGmbH Phone: +49 421 200 3587 Campus Ring 1 | 28759 Bremen | Germany Fax: +49 421 200 3103 _______________________________________________ netmod mailing list netmod@ietf.org https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/netmod From nobody Fri May 3 05:08:17 2019 Return-Path: X-Original-To: netmod@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: netmod@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 752B61200B7 for ; Fri, 3 May 2019 05:08:15 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: 0.247 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=0.247 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, RATWARE_MS_HASH=2.148, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=no autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); 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DIR:OUT; SFP:1102; SCL:1; SRVR:VI1PR07MB3901; H:VI1PR07MB3118.eurprd07.prod.outlook.com; FPR:; SPF:None; LANG:en; PTR:InfoNoRecords; A:0; MX:1; received-spf: None (protection.outlook.com: btconnect.com does not designate permitted sender hosts) x-ms-exchange-senderadcheck: 1 x-microsoft-antispam-message-info: ADwmPyhS0TINLoyE88CGy2p5++2kJc8CFEY56IzfZaUW4/ksRILv18JWYBMMOaD1qK5CNV5MfFLyLZIboSsUAdSG0+VouFyZvRx/PLxILINcSOBSiCa4pKX6uxzmGZdsoLfKoBTcq6a8lf+POIsbg4e+q2CJ/WnvwB9/+DUFoI+07ARxr7oPfqv3NoSUB0wpBYozyRYXhqAP0dwuPg7J6SY1Jthnw0iUEsCmBYnZ2BzGNAbvodxWYJRqSHKnJZ9hR4LMdo+Rf6xlsax+glMU5+AHkW+rrECKcRfGyq0U3ZPt4HOzg9BjkdKRVukYettlcinnIIaZzw4KHN/KolE2wSaQ+rFoS9DjNlHFd7AZnYjPuTsxrQzG6cCZXRCbgRMY6HwyB9m+jG1mvJK3rxXSOSw0sXRtnwnHWo2M+pvRxgE= Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-ID: <5B958DE30598D944A1E69CCFCB0D28C8@eurprd07.prod.outlook.com> Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable MIME-Version: 1.0 X-OriginatorOrg: btconnect.com X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-Network-Message-Id: a40fc8e5-1172-4be7-323c-08d6cfc00259 X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-originalarrivaltime: 03 May 2019 12:08:10.1893 (UTC) X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-fromentityheader: Hosted X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-id: cf8853ed-96e5-465b-9185-806bfe185e30 X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-mailboxtype: HOSTED X-MS-Exchange-Transport-CrossTenantHeadersStamped: VI1PR07MB3901 Archived-At: Subject: [netmod] convert it and not throw an error was Re: 6021 ipv4-prefix X-BeenThere: netmod@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: NETMOD WG list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 03 May 2019 12:08:16 -0000 ----- Original Message ----- From: "Mikael Abrahamsson" To: "Randy Presuhn" Cc: Sent: Thursday, May 02, 2019 12:35 PM > On Wed, 1 May 2019, Randy Presuhn wrote: > > > Hi - > > > > On 5/1/2019 12:46 PM, Mikael Abrahamsson wrote: > > .... > >> Where is the text that tells the server implementor whether to throw an > >> error when client commits non-zero bits, or to just throw the bits away > >> and store the value in the canonical format? > > > > Such text would be an inappropriate constraint the server's > > internal representation. We should only specify > > the externally-visible behaviour: that the reported value > > will be in the canonical format. Whether an implementation > > preserves extraneous cruft in its internal representation is > > purely an implementation decision, and not subject to standardization. > > I am talking about what goes on the wire. If the client does an > edit-config with ipv6-prefix 2001:db8::1/64, should the server convert > this into 2001:db8::/64 or throw an error on the edit-config operation. > > Jurgen seems to say it should convert it and not throw an error, and I'd > like text to say that indeed, this is proper behaviour. Nobody has so far > been able to tell me where this text currently is, so that's why I'm > asking for it to be added. Either this should go into an update to > https://tools.ietf.org/html/rfc7950#section-9.1 or it should go into each > and every definition of types (or both of them). Mikael How about RFC791, still much quoted in all aspects of the work of the IETF? " In general, an implementation must be conservative in its sending behavior, and liberal in its receiving behavior. That is, it must be careful to send well-formed datagrams, but must accept any datagram that it can interpret (e.g., not object to technical errors where the meaning is still clear)." We did not have MUST in those days, but had we, this would have been one IMHO. Tom Petch > >> It seems it should "fix it", so we should > >> have text that reflects this. > > > > False dichotomy. An implementation might actually preserve > > those bits, though of course they'd never be seen again (at > > least not on a netconf interface) since the netconf server > > will always behave as though the value were in its canonical > > form, regardless of the internal representation. > > Again, I am talking about what goes on the wire, what is seen when issuing > "get" or "edit-config" etc. > > -- > Mikael Abrahamsson email: swmike@swm.pp.se > > _______________________________________________ > netmod mailing list > netmod@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/netmod From nobody Fri May 3 09:14:57 2019 Return-Path: X-Original-To: netmod@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: netmod@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3C3251200EF for ; Fri, 3 May 2019 09:14:56 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.9 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.9 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id JOTIo3I0NaVW for ; Fri, 3 May 2019 09:14:54 -0700 (PDT) Received: from atlas5.jacobs-university.de (atlas5.jacobs-university.de [212.201.44.20]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher AECDH-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 956511200E3 for ; Fri, 3 May 2019 09:14:53 -0700 (PDT) Received: from localhost (demetrius5.irc-it.jacobs-university.de [10.70.0.222]) by atlas5.jacobs-university.de (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4CDBA7B8; Fri, 3 May 2019 18:14:52 +0200 (CEST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at jacobs-university.de Received: from atlas5.jacobs-university.de ([10.70.0.217]) by localhost (demetrius5.jacobs-university.de [10.70.0.222]) (amavisd-new, port 10032) with ESMTP id 0oRuuNGCESBs; Fri, 3 May 2019 18:14:52 +0200 (CEST) Received: from hermes.jacobs-university.de (hermes.jacobs-university.de [212.201.44.23]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (Client CN "hermes.jacobs-university.de", Issuer "Jacobs University CA - G01" (verified OK)) by atlas5.jacobs-university.de (Postfix) with ESMTPS; Fri, 3 May 2019 18:14:52 +0200 (CEST) Received: from localhost (demetrius5.irc-it.jacobs-university.de [10.70.0.222]) by hermes.jacobs-university.de (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0CF2F200E8; Fri, 3 May 2019 18:14:52 +0200 (CEST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at jacobs-university.de Received: from hermes.jacobs-university.de ([212.201.44.23]) by localhost (demetrius5.jacobs-university.de [10.70.0.222]) (amavisd-new, port 10028) with ESMTP id 3QtHnHsbu467; Fri, 3 May 2019 18:14:51 +0200 (CEST) Received: from exchange.jacobs-university.de (SXCHMB02.jacobs.jacobs-university.de [10.70.0.121]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (Client CN "exchange.jacobs-university.de", Issuer "DFN-Verein Global Issuing CA" (verified OK)) by hermes.jacobs-university.de (Postfix) with ESMTPS id B8CEA200E9; Fri, 3 May 2019 18:14:51 +0200 (CEST) Received: from anna.localdomain (10.50.218.117) by sxchmb03.jacobs.jacobs-university.de (10.70.0.155) with Microsoft SMTP Server (version=TLS1_2, cipher=TLS_ECDHE_RSA_WITH_AES_256_GCM_SHA384) id 15.1.1713.5; Fri, 3 May 2019 18:14:51 +0200 Received: by anna.localdomain (Postfix, from userid 501) id DEF623008BDF29; Fri, 3 May 2019 18:14:50 +0200 (CEST) Date: Fri, 3 May 2019 18:14:50 +0200 From: Juergen Schoenwaelder To: "Schwarz Albrecht (ETAS/ESY1)" CC: Andy Bierman , NetMod WG Message-ID: <20190503161450.p44lkz6cxzuwjc3d@anna.jacobs.jacobs-university.de> Reply-To: Juergen Schoenwaelder Mail-Followup-To: "Schwarz Albrecht (ETAS/ESY1)" , Andy Bierman , NetMod WG References: <941c9e23c3274dcdbca21c22348ca04f@etas.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <941c9e23c3274dcdbca21c22348ca04f@etas.com> User-Agent: NeoMutt/20180716 X-ClientProxiedBy: SXCHMB04.jacobs.jacobs-university.de (10.70.0.156) To sxchmb03.jacobs.jacobs-university.de (10.70.0.155) Archived-At: Subject: Re: [netmod] Management Protocol Roles: Client/Server vs Manager/Agent X-BeenThere: netmod@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: NETMOD WG list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 03 May 2019 16:14:56 -0000 On Fri, May 03, 2019 at 10:43:50AM +0000, Schwarz Albrecht (ETAS/ESY1) wrote: > Leading (for me) to a principle dilemma from (management) protocol engineering perspective due to > a) Manager-to-Agent = 1:N > b) Client-to-Server = N:1 > c) and the mapping approach in NETCONF/NETMOD of Manager-to-Client and Agent-to-Server in my understanding. The problem is that you leave the plural 's' out. ;-) Client-to-Server is 1:1 (= Manager-to-Agent) Client-to-Servers is 1:N (= Manager-to-Agents) Clients-to-Server is N:1 (= Managers-to-Agent) > I'm being aware that a distributed management solution needs to resolve the various role assignments in a layered management communication architecture at the various levels, e.g., > for Management Application MA-over-RESTCONF-over-HTTP-over-TCP-over- ... as > 1) Application level (MA): Manager to Agent(s) > 2) Application layer management protocol = RESTCONF: Manager to Agent(s) > 3) Session layer = HTTP: Client(s) to Server > 4) Transport layer = TCP: Client(s) to Server > > I fail to see, or do miss the background/justification why the notion of client/server is used in RFCs about YANG, NMDA, NETCONF? Instead of manager/agent. > It all boils down how you define the terms Manager and Agent. With NETCONF/RESTCONF and YANG, the initial focus was on the interaction between the server maintaining configuration datastores and the client manipulating configuration datastores (leaving out notifications for now, they actually came later). /js -- Juergen Schoenwaelder Jacobs University Bremen gGmbH Phone: +49 421 200 3587 Campus Ring 1 | 28759 Bremen | Germany Fax: +49 421 200 3103 From nobody Fri May 3 09:44:00 2019 Return-Path: X-Original-To: netmod@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: netmod@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id C42571200F9 for ; Fri, 3 May 2019 09:43:59 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.9 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.9 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=yumaworks-com.20150623.gappssmtp.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id XiPuLjmq_evE for ; Fri, 3 May 2019 09:43:57 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail-lj1-x243.google.com (mail-lj1-x243.google.com [IPv6:2a00:1450:4864:20::243]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 312581200D6 for ; Fri, 3 May 2019 09:43:57 -0700 (PDT) Received: by mail-lj1-x243.google.com with SMTP id e18so5780203lja.5 for ; Fri, 03 May 2019 09:43:57 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=yumaworks-com.20150623.gappssmtp.com; s=20150623; h=mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date:message-id:subject:to; bh=IP6CM2Rz9CGC/3LuDEFyscpacB9vCmJSW2gmH9mi8Cc=; b=KQ9uaXXpVG0Pk3bklIErcZnDmN3XRNSR7BVV6v1RW+O17t/UQCe6nDbYTqwEErMtoE dG2TgC/XxXyNRk1d4X72xXfPRwIQvb0IynuchXyGpJcNAZ0+JmwKYA6ApH/Y6uaGO+Cg Hf6Dbd4Q0yHl5uq/H4hqQMNq4wEk9BquElQc+kCK/EgQub6HcE8pxi6vL9UhjM5tpqRH Xg4TrXTPlO/TrAdU28BQnUk9gVgulqcwsbfzowS4a1qEMySYi7yvH2KdjM5mxJTC5YE3 xAX/I+9FfgQl4PFQPw2lXp51q96MpOaPcC5OItmAMCUOiFLC/zG5DTjmuEYjy8ZcxSP0 dHjw== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date :message-id:subject:to; bh=IP6CM2Rz9CGC/3LuDEFyscpacB9vCmJSW2gmH9mi8Cc=; b=k5MxtRmpLOUuZYS1qTMH4bPKw813OcSVqXi+Vj5UIcfFHVliba0QRAiN030PA9PSrM XV1EodP1XfXMmYF07c/DDZR84V0xovqeAzRn+YknbGLWKDAptaNKRMBYXHPqKXXx1DdR EUECsF5ytwnb3p5ZF72EVOzCLT9kpjYF0+CGUp5ywmJQ5FQiHNVNDh7Ca4ujgJXJzoO3 R/Ej/94QSxtNk2ROJtDqevhWFV9ejkrMolE2m7mGchK653yeJ9pZrECWdZwUXjZqTcBh 1r1v4QZ7Q3eBaFRSo18kUoWFjoe648k3/UFS0Awa0i8B7EA1KlEN7cz0X/wj3lsm9F9R nBVA== X-Gm-Message-State: APjAAAVs0EES0yc2TqeaeX6kahYbAL5u4mKZ0usA24/ln6DYd52mqdBL Ih0XeABm9B0Vdder/pU9fNk5zFFZ5zbFHhvm21idwg== X-Google-Smtp-Source: APXvYqyWX4XkJOrNJYOCwyu2SWGSHu7R8P+A/fKRWvKedjW8w8bNqRTn92zHhTg0cXaAMnUGgDfS0wljuct3/32NPaw= X-Received: by 2002:a2e:9e4d:: with SMTP id g13mr5632889ljk.12.1556901835246; Fri, 03 May 2019 09:43:55 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 References: <20190503055724.723voy7swdito3bv@anna.jacobs.jacobs-university.de> <20190503092012.gb2zzqggb2igzs37@anna.jacobs.jacobs-university.de> In-Reply-To: <20190503092012.gb2zzqggb2igzs37@anna.jacobs.jacobs-university.de> From: Andy Bierman Date: Fri, 3 May 2019 09:43:44 -0700 Message-ID: To: Juergen Schoenwaelder , Andy Bierman , NetMod WG Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="000000000000d7238e0587fe749b" Archived-At: Subject: Re: [netmod] validating a YANG action X-BeenThere: netmod@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: NETMOD WG list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 03 May 2019 16:44:00 -0000 --000000000000d7238e0587fe749b Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" On Fri, May 3, 2019 at 2:20 AM Juergen Schoenwaelder < j.schoenwaelder@jacobs-university.de> wrote: > On Fri, May 03, 2019 at 01:10:58AM -0700, Andy Bierman wrote: > > On Thu, May 2, 2019 at 10:57 PM Juergen Schoenwaelder < > > j.schoenwaelder@jacobs-university.de> wrote: > > > > > On Thu, May 02, 2019 at 04:15:28PM -0700, Andy Bierman wrote: > > > > Hi, > > > > > > > > The text about invoking actions in RFC 7950, sec. 7.15 is not clear > > > > about whether the ancestor data nodes have to exist. > > > > > > > > sec 7.15.2, para 2: > > > > > > > > The element contains a hierarchy of nodes that identifies > > > > the node in the datastore. > > > > > > > > > > > > The RFC does not say anything about if the data node is required to > > > > exist or not. There is no distinction between NP-container, > P-container, > > > > or list which are ancestors of the action node. It does not specify > > > > which datastore, and that is not supplied in the RPC. > > > > The text specifies what must be in the request, not in any > > > datastore > > > > or state data. > > > > > > > > It seems like the intent is that no instance test is specified at > all and > > > > the corresponding ancestor nodes to the action node do not have to > > > > exist for the action to be invoked. (The action may succeed or fail). > > > > The issue is whether there is an existence-test before invoking the > > > action. > > > > > > We discussed actions during the work on NMDA. RFC 8342 has this text > > > in section 6, in particular 6.1 says: > > > > > > Actions are always invoked in the context of the operational state > > > datastore. The node for which the action is invoked MUST exist in > > > the operational state datastore. > > > > > > > > This only applies to a server implementing NMDA. > > There is no requirement for a server implementing RFC 7950 to make this > > test. > > > > Yes, the behavior is unspecified in RFC 7950. However, note that RFC > 8342 formally updates RFC 7950 and the Introduction section says: > > This document updates RFC 7950 by refining the definition of the > accessible tree for some XML Path Language (XPath) context (see > Section 6.1) and the invocation context of operations (see > Section 6.2). > > This update may not affect your implementation but since you asked > whether there is an existence-test before invoking the action, I > thought a pointer to RFC 8342 is perhaps relevant. > > OK, but the update wrt/ action invocation is irrelevant unless the server implements the datastore. This NMDA requirement means that a server MUST implement the operational values of config=true ancestor data nodes in order to implement an action nested within configuration. If the server does not implement these operational values, and follows YANG library guidelines by omitting these ancestor schema nodes from the schema for , then the YANG action is not accessible on the server. I don't think the YANG Library RFC makes it clear that an action must exist in the schema for in order for it to be accessible. This should be confirmed and an errata posted if needed. This also means that any mechanism which disables configuration and therefore removes the corresponding data nodes from , also disables any actions within that configuration. The keystore thread has already discussed the rather awkward procedures for waiting and confirming that has synched with before being able to invoke an action. Maybe YANG 1.2 can fix this mess, or maybe new protocol operations are needed. /js > > Andy > -- > Juergen Schoenwaelder Jacobs University Bremen gGmbH > Phone: +49 421 200 3587 Campus Ring 1 | 28759 Bremen | Germany > Fax: +49 421 200 3103 > --000000000000d7238e0587fe749b Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable


=
On Fri, May 3, 2019 at 2:20 AM Juerge= n Schoenwaelder <j.schoenwaelder@jacobs-university.de> wrote:
On Fri, May 03, 2019 at 01:10:58AM -07= 00, Andy Bierman wrote:
> On Thu, May 2, 2019 at 10:57 PM Juergen Schoenwaelder <
> j.schoenwaelder@jacobs-university.de> wrote:
>
> > On Thu, May 02, 2019 at 04:15:28PM -0700, Andy Bierman wrote:
> > > Hi,
> > >
> > > The text about invoking actions in RFC 7950, sec. 7.15 is no= t clear
> > > about whether the ancestor data nodes have to exist.
> > >
> > > sec 7.15.2, para 2:
> > >
> > >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 The <action> element contains a hierarchy= of nodes that identifies
> > > the node in the datastore.
> > >
> > >
> > > The RFC does not say anything about if the data node is requ= ired to
> > > exist or not.=C2=A0 There is no distinction between NP-conta= iner, P-container,
> > > or list which are ancestors of the action node. It does not = specify
> > > which datastore, and that is not supplied in the <action&= gt; RPC.
> > > The text specifies what must be in the <rpc> request, = not in any
> > datastore
> > > or state data.
> > >
> > > It seems like the intent is that no instance test is specifi= ed at all and
> > > the corresponding ancestor nodes to the action node do not h= ave to
> > > exist for the action to be invoked. (The action may succeed = or fail).
> > > The issue is whether there is an existence-test before invok= ing the
> > action.
> >
> > We discussed actions during the work on NMDA. RFC 8342 has this t= ext
> > in section 6, in particular 6.1 says:
> >
> >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 Actions are always invoked in the context of the ope= rational state
> >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 datastore.=C2=A0 The node for which the action is in= voked MUST exist in
> >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 the operational state datastore.
> >
> >
> This only applies to a server implementing NMDA.
> There is no requirement for a server implementing RFC 7950 to make thi= s
> test.
>

Yes, the behavior is unspecified in RFC 7950. However, note that RFC
8342 formally updates RFC 7950 and the Introduction section says:

=C2=A0 =C2=A0This document updates RFC 7950 by refining the definition of t= he
=C2=A0 =C2=A0accessible tree for some XML Path Language (XPath) context (se= e
=C2=A0 =C2=A0Section 6.1) and the invocation context of operations (see
=C2=A0 =C2=A0Section 6.2).

This update may not affect your implementation but since you asked
whether there is an existence-test before invoking the action, I
thought a pointer to RFC 8342 is perhaps relevant.


OK, but the update wrt/ action invocat= ion is irrelevant unless the server
implements the <operationa= l> datastore.

This NMDA requirement means that = a server MUST implement the
operational values of config=3Dtrue a= ncestor data nodes in order to
implement an action nested within = configuration.

If the server does not implement th= ese operational values,
and follows YANG library guidelines by om= itting
these ancestor schema nodes from the schema for <operat= ional>,
then the YANG action is not accessible on the server.<= /div>

I don't think the YANG Library RFC makes it cl= ear that an action must exist
in the schema for <operational&g= t; in order for it to be accessible. This should
be confirmed and= an errata posted if needed.

This also means that = any mechanism which disables configuration and therefore
removes = the corresponding data nodes from <operational>, also disables any
actions within that configuration.

The key= store thread has already discussed the rather awkward procedures
= for waiting and confirming that <operational> has synched with <ru= nning>
before being able to invoke an action.

Maybe YANG 1.2 can fix this mess, or maybe new protocol operations= are needed.


/js


Andy
=C2=A0
--
Juergen Schoenwaelder=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0Jacobs Univer= sity Bremen gGmbH
Phone: +49 421 200 3587=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0Campus Ring 1 | 28= 759 Bremen | Germany
Fax:=C2=A0 =C2=A0+49 421 200 3103=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0<https://www.jacobs-university.de/>
--000000000000d7238e0587fe749b-- From nobody Fri May 3 09:54:06 2019 Return-Path: X-Original-To: netmod@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: netmod@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id BA3E412022B for ; Fri, 3 May 2019 09:53:53 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.9 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.9 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id URgyRyg9u3wT for ; Fri, 3 May 2019 09:53:50 -0700 (PDT) Received: from atlas5.jacobs-university.de (atlas5.jacobs-university.de [212.201.44.20]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher AECDH-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id D865A12021B for ; Fri, 3 May 2019 09:53:49 -0700 (PDT) Received: from localhost (demetrius5.irc-it.jacobs-university.de [10.70.0.222]) by atlas5.jacobs-university.de (Postfix) with ESMTP id B725DB23; Fri, 3 May 2019 18:53:47 +0200 (CEST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at jacobs-university.de Received: from atlas5.jacobs-university.de ([10.70.0.217]) by localhost (demetrius5.jacobs-university.de [10.70.0.222]) (amavisd-new, port 10032) with ESMTP id JRXGlTGjyqUL; Fri, 3 May 2019 18:53:47 +0200 (CEST) Received: from hermes.jacobs-university.de (hermes.jacobs-university.de [212.201.44.23]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (Client CN "hermes.jacobs-university.de", Issuer "Jacobs University CA - G01" (verified OK)) by atlas5.jacobs-university.de (Postfix) with ESMTPS; Fri, 3 May 2019 18:53:47 +0200 (CEST) Received: from localhost (demetrius5.irc-it.jacobs-university.de [10.70.0.222]) by hermes.jacobs-university.de (Postfix) with ESMTP id 783D6200E9; Fri, 3 May 2019 18:53:47 +0200 (CEST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at jacobs-university.de Received: from hermes.jacobs-university.de ([212.201.44.23]) by localhost (demetrius5.jacobs-university.de [10.70.0.222]) (amavisd-new, port 10028) with ESMTP id 4CjT1cPIJXIQ; Fri, 3 May 2019 18:53:47 +0200 (CEST) Received: from exchange.jacobs-university.de (sxchmb04.jacobs.jacobs-university.de [10.70.0.156]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (Client CN "exchange.jacobs-university.de", Issuer "DFN-Verein Global Issuing CA" (verified OK)) by hermes.jacobs-university.de (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 10785200E8; Fri, 3 May 2019 18:53:47 +0200 (CEST) Received: from anna.localdomain (10.50.218.117) by sxchmb03.jacobs.jacobs-university.de (10.70.0.155) with Microsoft SMTP Server (version=TLS1_2, cipher=TLS_ECDHE_RSA_WITH_AES_256_GCM_SHA384) id 15.1.1713.5; Fri, 3 May 2019 18:53:46 +0200 Received: by anna.localdomain (Postfix, from userid 501) id 31BBB3008BE2C0; Fri, 3 May 2019 18:53:45 +0200 (CEST) Date: Fri, 3 May 2019 18:53:45 +0200 From: Juergen Schoenwaelder To: Andy Bierman CC: NetMod WG Message-ID: <20190503165345.spvrfu4zkin7er4y@anna.jacobs.jacobs-university.de> Reply-To: Juergen Schoenwaelder Mail-Followup-To: Andy Bierman , NetMod WG References: <20190503055724.723voy7swdito3bv@anna.jacobs.jacobs-university.de> <20190503092012.gb2zzqggb2igzs37@anna.jacobs.jacobs-university.de> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: User-Agent: NeoMutt/20180716 X-ClientProxiedBy: SXCHMB03.jacobs.jacobs-university.de (10.70.0.155) To sxchmb03.jacobs.jacobs-university.de (10.70.0.155) Archived-At: Subject: Re: [netmod] validating a YANG action X-BeenThere: netmod@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: NETMOD WG list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 03 May 2019 16:53:54 -0000 On Fri, May 03, 2019 at 09:43:44AM -0700, Andy Bierman wrote: > On Fri, May 3, 2019 at 2:20 AM Juergen Schoenwaelder < > j.schoenwaelder@jacobs-university.de> wrote: > > > On Fri, May 03, 2019 at 01:10:58AM -0700, Andy Bierman wrote: > > > On Thu, May 2, 2019 at 10:57 PM Juergen Schoenwaelder < > > > j.schoenwaelder@jacobs-university.de> wrote: > > > > > > > On Thu, May 02, 2019 at 04:15:28PM -0700, Andy Bierman wrote: > > > > > Hi, > > > > > > > > > > The text about invoking actions in RFC 7950, sec. 7.15 is not clear > > > > > about whether the ancestor data nodes have to exist. > > > > > > > > > > sec 7.15.2, para 2: > > > > > > > > > > The element contains a hierarchy of nodes that identifies > > > > > the node in the datastore. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > The RFC does not say anything about if the data node is required to > > > > > exist or not. There is no distinction between NP-container, > > P-container, > > > > > or list which are ancestors of the action node. It does not specify > > > > > which datastore, and that is not supplied in the RPC. > > > > > The text specifies what must be in the request, not in any > > > > datastore > > > > > or state data. > > > > > > > > > > It seems like the intent is that no instance test is specified at > > all and > > > > > the corresponding ancestor nodes to the action node do not have to > > > > > exist for the action to be invoked. (The action may succeed or fail). > > > > > The issue is whether there is an existence-test before invoking the > > > > action. > > > > > > > > We discussed actions during the work on NMDA. RFC 8342 has this text > > > > in section 6, in particular 6.1 says: > > > > > > > > Actions are always invoked in the context of the operational state > > > > datastore. The node for which the action is invoked MUST exist in > > > > the operational state datastore. > > > > > > > > > > > This only applies to a server implementing NMDA. > > > There is no requirement for a server implementing RFC 7950 to make this > > > test. > > > > > > > Yes, the behavior is unspecified in RFC 7950. However, note that RFC > > 8342 formally updates RFC 7950 and the Introduction section says: > > > > This document updates RFC 7950 by refining the definition of the > > accessible tree for some XML Path Language (XPath) context (see > > Section 6.1) and the invocation context of operations (see > > Section 6.2). > > > > This update may not affect your implementation but since you asked > > whether there is an existence-test before invoking the action, I > > thought a pointer to RFC 8342 is perhaps relevant. > > > > > OK, but the update wrt/ action invocation is irrelevant unless the server > implements the datastore. > > This NMDA requirement means that a server MUST implement the > operational values of config=true ancestor data nodes in order to > implement an action nested within configuration. > > If the server does not implement these operational values, > and follows YANG library guidelines by omitting > these ancestor schema nodes from the schema for , > then the YANG action is not accessible on the server. > > I don't think the YANG Library RFC makes it clear that an action must exist > in the schema for in order for it to be accessible. This > should be confirmed and an errata posted if needed. I am not sure which text you propose or why YANG Library should say something specific. > This also means that any mechanism which disables configuration and > therefore removes the corresponding data nodes from , > also disables any actions within that configuration. I think the model is that you invoke an action on an existing resource. > The keystore thread has already discussed the rather awkward procedures > for waiting and confirming that has synched with > before being able to invoke an action. Lets see what comes out of the discussion. > Maybe YANG 1.2 can fix this mess, or maybe new protocol operations are > needed. It is not clear yet to me what 'this mess' is and hence what needs fixing. /js -- Juergen Schoenwaelder Jacobs University Bremen gGmbH Phone: +49 421 200 3587 Campus Ring 1 | 28759 Bremen | Germany Fax: +49 421 200 3103 From nobody Fri May 3 10:17:38 2019 Return-Path: X-Original-To: netmod@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: netmod@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 85C231202DC for ; Fri, 3 May 2019 10:17:36 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.9 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.9 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=yumaworks-com.20150623.gappssmtp.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id Zb7CQrWV_FWK for ; Fri, 3 May 2019 10:17:34 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail-lj1-x244.google.com (mail-lj1-x244.google.com [IPv6:2a00:1450:4864:20::244]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 7223D1202CD for ; Fri, 3 May 2019 10:17:33 -0700 (PDT) Received: by mail-lj1-x244.google.com with SMTP id s7so436231ljh.1 for ; Fri, 03 May 2019 10:17:33 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=yumaworks-com.20150623.gappssmtp.com; s=20150623; h=mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date:message-id:subject:to; bh=9yOU/slM8/lx9nstbfno0aCvlD/9MvHBT5TXitmhfqM=; b=wuiwRj+waU6yvvKG/X9XOEJIcZESY/Fjh6auKW9LA3PxePeO4c8zelJ/GZhrlJ8Rop mD/qgJV+5JNGK36fBNF81Jid+QUb9BpOAvRHaEcQyMii2Ga9tQGuBT4n2b8d/1K59iqG VuLsVokLFMiONrlCOAkgkAgB1sCfGwz6E/pZ90tIWv4+U9qjF/+/l4QoIad/2lZxK2cu eRjBAp6DxK0Ve0HlqSb5FsF1uXtLP4GB6jFXv0DeNa+p13994YgBideid44envLXGuOb VeR7RzK0lO5SjWmOfpnavx+vJq2aqR4L1+5cWoGwEusd1ewVT5EoKYPs5k1p9rukpTRu xNDw== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date :message-id:subject:to; bh=9yOU/slM8/lx9nstbfno0aCvlD/9MvHBT5TXitmhfqM=; b=rVyufxrfG6YUp7yr7BMmfoy44StP8JQ6Qh5scRy2bktrAsI4b2OwYiNi86pEFzjlhi OQMwLpVOatB13AmrjD+V+9fBfUPpljX3kTs1btaBuFmHOsG13Fr7uGTyPNyguNUFXVir ni1vIOMIWDbcM63BZPY78sQ1ZrQp09KHO8P/QkfNeWLk1yRBGOYxOUwarbf11QyLRd9Y JRlWI/i1YbmTjykAdnFxZUbTInJg5/htPl+or/SpEB7UY323H9nwhFLYQ4vQH7jGAQEb 0F48q+ZlQvMSi9NwyNZPygEzH5/YS1KXmnhFq9YpabSW7WaNUF2CaOVdoUiJwZXTzWFR 1jUQ== X-Gm-Message-State: APjAAAXnOf6UNWFYW1l7hwyOoRyHaGHG7UWlso7hquNeTCYpBLoR7yh8 ZK6HHbDAUS8NKMq3sI5+JwPJd4ak/oYLoL75kCccAw== X-Google-Smtp-Source: APXvYqwzdzlRd4vd/6RT2nD0TsY8k7PkBrV8Or4R1xzmeannXZzHwzTnSs2D1b8J/7zlz74shQx/9EiZ2GraTNS27vA= X-Received: by 2002:a2e:9855:: with SMTP id e21mr983768ljj.180.1556903851514; Fri, 03 May 2019 10:17:31 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 References: <20190503055724.723voy7swdito3bv@anna.jacobs.jacobs-university.de> <20190503092012.gb2zzqggb2igzs37@anna.jacobs.jacobs-university.de> <20190503165345.spvrfu4zkin7er4y@anna.jacobs.jacobs-university.de> In-Reply-To: <20190503165345.spvrfu4zkin7er4y@anna.jacobs.jacobs-university.de> From: Andy Bierman Date: Fri, 3 May 2019 10:17:20 -0700 Message-ID: To: Juergen Schoenwaelder , Andy Bierman , NetMod WG Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="00000000000004f5b50587feedf3" Archived-At: Subject: Re: [netmod] validating a YANG action X-BeenThere: netmod@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: NETMOD WG list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 03 May 2019 17:17:36 -0000 --00000000000004f5b50587feedf3 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" On Fri, May 3, 2019 at 9:53 AM Juergen Schoenwaelder < j.schoenwaelder@jacobs-university.de> wrote: > On Fri, May 03, 2019 at 09:43:44AM -0700, Andy Bierman wrote: > > On Fri, May 3, 2019 at 2:20 AM Juergen Schoenwaelder < > > j.schoenwaelder@jacobs-university.de> wrote: > > > > > On Fri, May 03, 2019 at 01:10:58AM -0700, Andy Bierman wrote: > > > > On Thu, May 2, 2019 at 10:57 PM Juergen Schoenwaelder < > > > > j.schoenwaelder@jacobs-university.de> wrote: > > > > > > > > > On Thu, May 02, 2019 at 04:15:28PM -0700, Andy Bierman wrote: > > > > > > Hi, > > > > > > > > > > > > The text about invoking actions in RFC 7950, sec. 7.15 is not > clear > > > > > > about whether the ancestor data nodes have to exist. > > > > > > > > > > > > sec 7.15.2, para 2: > > > > > > > > > > > > The element contains a hierarchy of nodes that > identifies > > > > > > the node in the datastore. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > The RFC does not say anything about if the data node is required > to > > > > > > exist or not. There is no distinction between NP-container, > > > P-container, > > > > > > or list which are ancestors of the action node. It does not > specify > > > > > > which datastore, and that is not supplied in the RPC. > > > > > > The text specifies what must be in the request, not in any > > > > > datastore > > > > > > or state data. > > > > > > > > > > > > It seems like the intent is that no instance test is specified at > > > all and > > > > > > the corresponding ancestor nodes to the action node do not have > to > > > > > > exist for the action to be invoked. (The action may succeed or > fail). > > > > > > The issue is whether there is an existence-test before invoking > the > > > > > action. > > > > > > > > > > We discussed actions during the work on NMDA. RFC 8342 has this > text > > > > > in section 6, in particular 6.1 says: > > > > > > > > > > Actions are always invoked in the context of the operational > state > > > > > datastore. The node for which the action is invoked MUST exist > in > > > > > the operational state datastore. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > This only applies to a server implementing NMDA. > > > > There is no requirement for a server implementing RFC 7950 to make > this > > > > test. > > > > > > > > > > Yes, the behavior is unspecified in RFC 7950. However, note that RFC > > > 8342 formally updates RFC 7950 and the Introduction section says: > > > > > > This document updates RFC 7950 by refining the definition of the > > > accessible tree for some XML Path Language (XPath) context (see > > > Section 6.1) and the invocation context of operations (see > > > Section 6.2). > > > > > > This update may not affect your implementation but since you asked > > > whether there is an existence-test before invoking the action, I > > > thought a pointer to RFC 8342 is perhaps relevant. > > > > > > > > OK, but the update wrt/ action invocation is irrelevant unless the server > > implements the datastore. > > > > This NMDA requirement means that a server MUST implement the > > operational values of config=true ancestor data nodes in order to > > implement an action nested within configuration. > > > > If the server does not implement these operational values, > > and follows YANG library guidelines by omitting > > these ancestor schema nodes from the schema for , > > then the YANG action is not accessible on the server. > > > > I don't think the YANG Library RFC makes it clear that an action must > exist > > in the schema for in order for it to be accessible. This > > should be confirmed and an errata posted if needed. > > I am not sure which text you propose or why YANG Library should say > something specific. > > > This also means that any mechanism which disables configuration and > > therefore removes the corresponding data nodes from , > > also disables any actions within that configuration. > > I think the model is that you invoke an action on an existing > resource. > > > The keystore thread has already discussed the rather awkward procedures > > for waiting and confirming that has synched with > > before being able to invoke an action. > > Lets see what comes out of the discussion. > > > Maybe YANG 1.2 can fix this mess, or maybe new protocol operations are > > needed. > > It is not clear yet to me what 'this mess' is and hence what needs fixing. > > The "mess" is that NMDA declared an action is always invoked in and this creates extra implementation burdens and complexity for clients and servers. > /js > > Andy > -- > Juergen Schoenwaelder Jacobs University Bremen gGmbH > Phone: +49 421 200 3587 Campus Ring 1 | 28759 Bremen | Germany > Fax: +49 421 200 3103 > --00000000000004f5b50587feedf3 Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable


=
On Fri, May 3, 2019 at 9:53 AM Juerge= n Schoenwaelder <j.schoenwaelder@jacobs-university.de> wrote:
On Fri, May 03, 2019 at 09:43:44AM -07= 00, Andy Bierman wrote:
> On Fri, May 3, 2019 at 2:20 AM Juergen Schoenwaelder <
> j.schoenwaelder@jacobs-university.de> wrote:
>
> > On Fri, May 03, 2019 at 01:10:58AM -0700, Andy Bierman wrote:
> > > On Thu, May 2, 2019 at 10:57 PM Juergen Schoenwaelder < > > > j.schoenwaelder@jacobs-university.de> wrote:
> > >
> > > > On Thu, May 02, 2019 at 04:15:28PM -0700, Andy Bierman = wrote:
> > > > > Hi,
> > > > >
> > > > > The text about invoking actions in RFC 7950, sec. = 7.15 is not clear
> > > > > about whether the ancestor data nodes have to exis= t.
> > > > >
> > > > > sec 7.15.2, para 2:
> > > > >
> > > > >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 The <action> element contains a= hierarchy of nodes that identifies
> > > > > the node in the datastore.
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > The RFC does not say anything about if the data no= de is required to
> > > > > exist or not.=C2=A0 There is no distinction betwee= n NP-container,
> > P-container,
> > > > > or list which are ancestors of the action node. It= does not specify
> > > > > which datastore, and that is not supplied in the &= lt;action> RPC.
> > > > > The text specifies what must be in the <rpc>= request, not in any
> > > > datastore
> > > > > or state data.
> > > > >
> > > > > It seems like the intent is that no instance test = is specified at
> > all and
> > > > > the corresponding ancestor nodes to the action nod= e do not have to
> > > > > exist for the action to be invoked. (The action ma= y succeed or fail).
> > > > > The issue is whether there is an existence-test be= fore invoking the
> > > > action.
> > > >
> > > > We discussed actions during the work on NMDA. RFC 8342 = has this text
> > > > in section 6, in particular 6.1 says:
> > > >
> > > >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 Actions are always invoked in the context = of the operational state
> > > >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 datastore.=C2=A0 The node for which the ac= tion is invoked MUST exist in
> > > >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 the operational state datastore.
> > > >
> > > >
> > > This only applies to a server implementing NMDA.
> > > There is no requirement for a server implementing RFC 7950 t= o make this
> > > test.
> > >
> >
> > Yes, the behavior is unspecified in RFC 7950. However, note that = RFC
> > 8342 formally updates RFC 7950 and the Introduction section says:=
> >
> >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 This document updates RFC 7950 by refining the defin= ition of the
> >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 accessible tree for some XML Path Language (XPath) c= ontext (see
> >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 Section 6.1) and the invocation context of operation= s (see
> >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 Section 6.2).
> >
> > This update may not affect your implementation but since you aske= d
> > whether there is an existence-test before invoking the action, I<= br> > > thought a pointer to RFC 8342 is perhaps relevant.
> >
> >
> OK, but the update wrt/ action invocation is irrelevant unless the ser= ver
> implements the <operational> datastore.
>
> This NMDA requirement means that a server MUST implement the
> operational values of config=3Dtrue ancestor data nodes in order to > implement an action nested within configuration.
>
> If the server does not implement these operational values,
> and follows YANG library guidelines by omitting
> these ancestor schema nodes from the schema for <operational>, > then the YANG action is not accessible on the server.
>
> I don't think the YANG Library RFC makes it clear that an action m= ust exist
> in the schema for <operational> in order for it to be accessible= . This
> should be confirmed and an errata posted if needed.

I am not sure which text you propose or why YANG Library should say
something specific.

> This also means that any mechanism which disables configuration and > therefore removes the corresponding data nodes from <operational>= ;,
> also disables any actions within that configuration.

I think the model is that you invoke an action on an existing
resource.

> The keystore thread has already discussed the rather awkward procedure= s
> for waiting and confirming that <operational> has synched with &= lt;running>
> before being able to invoke an action.

Lets see what comes out of the discussion.

> Maybe YANG 1.2 can fix this mess, or maybe new protocol operations are=
> needed.

It is not clear yet to me what 'this mess' is and hence what needs = fixing.


The "mess" is that NMDA decl= ared an action is always invoked in <operational>
and this = creates extra implementation burdens and complexity for clients and servers= .
=C2=A0
/js


Andy
=C2=A0
--
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--00000000000004f5b50587feedf3-- From nobody Fri May 3 10:48:59 2019 Return-Path: X-Original-To: netmod@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: netmod@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id F411D120077; Fri, 3 May 2019 10:48:49 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.9 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.9 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id R0vs1qZ-Qb5m; Fri, 3 May 2019 10:48:48 -0700 (PDT) Received: from smtp.chopps.org (smtp.chopps.org [54.88.81.56]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id DDEB0120020; Fri, 3 May 2019 10:48:47 -0700 (PDT) Received: from stubbs.int.chopps.org (047-050-069-038.biz.spectrum.com [47.50.69.38]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher DHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (Client did not present a certificate) by smtp.chopps.org (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 0C3E16019B; Fri, 3 May 2019 13:48:46 -0400 (EDT) From: Christian Hopps Message-Id: Content-Type: multipart/signed; boundary="Apple-Mail=_52A404BE-FDA3-4D8A-86E4-A072146EB09C"; protocol="application/pgp-signature"; micalg=pgp-sha512 Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 12.4 \(3445.104.8\)) Date: Fri, 3 May 2019 13:48:45 -0400 In-Reply-To: <155499058804.22746.2191211977799773380.idtracker@ietfa.amsl.com> Cc: Christian Hopps , The IESG , netmod-chairs@ietf.org, joelja@gmail.com, draft-ietf-netmod-module-tags@ietf.org, netmod@ietf.org To: Benjamin Kaduk References: <155499058804.22746.2191211977799773380.idtracker@ietfa.amsl.com> X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.3445.104.8) Archived-At: Subject: Re: [netmod] Benjamin Kaduk's Discuss on draft-ietf-netmod-module-tags-07: (with DISCUSS and COMMENT) X-BeenThere: netmod@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: NETMOD WG list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 03 May 2019 17:48:50 -0000 --Apple-Mail=_52A404BE-FDA3-4D8A-86E4-A072146EB09C Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii > On Apr 11, 2019, at 9:49 AM, Benjamin Kaduk via Datatracker = wrote: >=20 > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > DISCUSS: > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- >=20 > I think this document does introduce new security considerations, > specifically the ability for one user to remove ("mask") tags from = being > visible to other users. A malicious user could interfere with the > operations of other users/entities, especially in the case mentioned = in > an example where multiple semi-independent clients use tags to = indicate > modules to avoid that may be broken. So here was the thinking on this, since this document doesn't define any = actions or behaviors based on tags (or the lack of them) it's hard to = talk about what the security considerations would be. However, it is = expected that to be useful users (or future specifications) *will* = define behaviors based on tag use. The security section does talk about = this case: " Users of the tag-meta data may define various actions to be taken based on the tag meta-data. These actions and their definitions are outside the scope of this document. Users will need to consider the security implications of any actions they choose to define. " Which I believe covered this. For example, if an RFC were to define a = behavior based on the tag presence then it would need to talk about the = security concerns with that behavior. If this doesn't adequately cover your concern though, do you have a bit = of suggested text we could add? > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > COMMENT: > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- >=20 > Section 2 >=20 > Similarly to Alissa's DISCUSS, perhaps "registered prefix" is better > than "standard prefix". >=20 > Section 2.4 >=20 > Similarly, "future registration" or "future use" seem to be better = fits > for the intended sentiment. >=20 > Section 3.2 >=20 > I may be misreading, but this seems to be encouraging implementations = to > add new ietf:-prefixed tags that are not necessarily registered or > specified in IETF-consensus documents. >=20 > Section 7.2 >=20 > This registry allocates prefixes that have the standard prefix > "ietf:". [...] >=20 > The registry name just talks about "tags"; are we really allocating > *prefix*es? >=20 Fixed these, thanks. Chris. >=20 > _______________________________________________ > netmod mailing list > netmod@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/netmod >=20 --Apple-Mail=_52A404BE-FDA3-4D8A-86E4-A072146EB09C Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: attachment; filename=signature.asc Content-Type: application/pgp-signature; name=signature.asc Content-Description: Message signed with OpenPGP -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- iQIzBAEBCgAdFiEEm56yH/NF+m1FHa6lLh2DDte4MCUFAlzMfv0ACgkQLh2DDte4 MCW4bQ//fGCQK+zCtDGhQuEyBX4oUf1r5LIV8BHxGladv2bXgwg5LG7NNniDknVM /Pe9b6Nrxx4OOpNpry2lxb9Sgz4AwCKUBbeaYW6GYp1c9S64QGxgBHSo+TYI2WwZ SRI+nLuNkknHgc39yIwkRrKR607DN5fb2eFV0vPaQD3YfsriTkHAIuKuUMAAlItj KWhV/3X9b/Z0Ylo7uiWncpT3I5ykIGZ8LUvDddlt8RuAKrKdkzctdlKdo4Cmi/3u A2hIey1GnRHtuuImHjikYt0zxLgZdkwbngallazZMDVOzmgJC9jLrUs7iB3bnOX+ 14KSWfzFUp0t9+gxQStn0x2hiY2f6v9sd3KFHFdNxhelY82yeeGAU41Ibb4pWQaT 5qAHzKzpQnzljkdlAPghwuZojJD27wgqu5T7kUTNB2fCeaOzE542A81/ElUOePrf H0R17iC3y0ayzVWbTU8Un7yvdcLoeKmfBj6J42qe2qM/rbMqBSJB/vJHqwxhmzos rWT+/dIAjVMUw8CgmyKF6O5IXEPmTAcitax7Hn4L4IjSXkhqVnr+PbF8XoPzh8SH GAvcyEImvO/F6tNd5CbMmHv5kWPdU5xL7rfgltuj3AN4X/VBtT3U2zK9MZPGsfXF hfuXunE/6FN/rIvITDSVfbOM32J0j9MTYSTc/xyHeOKTYn3l+8U= =3gpn -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --Apple-Mail=_52A404BE-FDA3-4D8A-86E4-A072146EB09C-- From nobody Fri May 3 11:48:51 2019 Return-Path: X-Original-To: netmod@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: netmod@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 610B61202DB; Fri, 3 May 2019 11:48:41 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.9 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.9 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id fTOmqg_i0s2D; Fri, 3 May 2019 11:48:39 -0700 (PDT) Received: from smtp.chopps.org (smtp.chopps.org [54.88.81.56]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id EA92E1202D9; Fri, 3 May 2019 11:48:33 -0700 (PDT) Received: from stubbs.int.chopps.org (047-050-069-038.biz.spectrum.com [47.50.69.38]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher DHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (Client did not present a certificate) by smtp.chopps.org (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 31F396019B; Fri, 3 May 2019 14:48:33 -0400 (EDT) From: Christian Hopps Message-Id: <564CFD6F-4540-4AF4-B2CA-0F119E3EA115@chopps.org> Content-Type: multipart/signed; boundary="Apple-Mail=_7D383906-6D8E-4253-863D-0D47465AD531"; protocol="application/pgp-signature"; micalg=pgp-sha512 Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 12.4 \(3445.104.8\)) Date: Fri, 3 May 2019 14:48:31 -0400 In-Reply-To: <155498943168.25264.4759466648827930694.idtracker@ietfa.amsl.com> Cc: Christian Hopps , The IESG , draft-ietf-netmod-module-tags@ietf.org, Joel Jaeggli , NetMod WG Chairs , netmod@ietf.org To: Alvaro Retana References: <155498943168.25264.4759466648827930694.idtracker@ietfa.amsl.com> X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.3445.104.8) Archived-At: Subject: Re: [netmod] Alvaro Retana's No Objection on draft-ietf-netmod-module-tags-07: (with COMMENT) X-BeenThere: netmod@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: NETMOD WG list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 03 May 2019 18:48:42 -0000 --Apple-Mail=_7D383906-6D8E-4253-863D-0D47465AD531 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 > On Apr 11, 2019, at 9:30 AM, Alvaro Retana via Datatracker = wrote: >=20 > Alvaro Retana has entered the following ballot position for > draft-ietf-netmod-module-tags-07: No Objection >=20 > When responding, please keep the subject line intact and reply to all > email addresses included in the To and CC lines. (Feel free to cut = this > introductory paragraph, however.) >=20 >=20 > Please refer to = https://www.ietf.org/iesg/statement/discuss-criteria.html > for more information about IESG DISCUSS and COMMENT positions. >=20 >=20 > The document, along with other ballot positions, can be found here: > https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-netmod-module-tags/ >=20 >=20 >=20 > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > COMMENT: > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- >=20 > (1) Along the same lines of Alissa's DISCUSS, which I support. >=20 > =C2=A76.1: "For standardized modules new tags MUST be assigned in the = IANA registry > defined below, see Section 7.2." What is a "standardized module"? It = sounds > like a Standards Track document, but (as Alissa pointed out) the = registration > policy is only IETF Review. In addressing the other DISCUSS/COMMENTs almost all (but not all) use of = the word "standard tag"/"standardized tag" has switched to some variant = of "registered tag". That said, the intention here is what you read: = it's saying if you are defining a module in a standard's track document = then any new tags you create MUST be added to the IANA registry. This = doesn't contradict the IANA registry policy of IETF review (i.e., it's = not talking about or trying to constrain the registration policy). = Consider a case of a info doc that is documenting some odd or misuse of = tags, we don't want to require that this doc register the "odd" or = misused case in the registry -- it could, but it's not required. >=20 > (2) =C2=A77.1: "All YANG module tags SHOULD begin with one of the = prefixes in this > registry." That statement along with the text in =C2=A72.4: >=20 > Any tag not starting with the prefix "ietf:", "vendor:" or "user:" = is > reserved for future standardization. These tag values are not > invalid, but simply reserved in the context of standardization. >=20 > ...seem to indicate that a tag with any format can be used. Is that = true? Is > that the intent? If so, then it seems to me that vendor/user tags = could simply > forgo the standardized prefix. I guess this is ok...it just makes me = wonder > about the need to even define those prefixes. The document goes to some length to make sure that users can do whatever = they want as they should be the final arbiter (that philosophy). The = need for the standard prefixes is to provide a stable framework so that = if users choose to follow the prefix rules (i.e., use "user:") then they = won't get stepped on by upstream (design and vendor) uses. > (3) I'm not sure what, but I think it may be wise to give the would-be = DEs for > the new registry in =C2=A77.1 some more guidance on the allocation of = new prefixes. > The only current guidance is this: "Prefix entries in this registry = should be > short strings consisting of lowercase ASCII alpha-numeric characters = and a > final ":" character." The expected use case (and thus the "guidance"): " Other standards organizations (SDOs) wishing to allocate their own set of tags should allocate a prefix from this registry. " Perhaps you think this needs wordsmithing though? Thanks, Chris. --Apple-Mail=_7D383906-6D8E-4253-863D-0D47465AD531 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: attachment; filename=signature.asc Content-Type: application/pgp-signature; name=signature.asc Content-Description: Message signed with OpenPGP -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- iQIzBAEBCgAdFiEEm56yH/NF+m1FHa6lLh2DDte4MCUFAlzMjQAACgkQLh2DDte4 MCV3Hw/+JaYjTNjpNdEI/sGNdbVtQ1n10Y8ID/5k/p1nUBla3fqtFhRu/CF7HOi/ NE5O+OyZv+loosQfMJBWJMAJtEg6BdUkdJW6g4xc4W19WN8lvihMf8EXBAOWe8rC WJ8Zcl6JalLGLEp2IYRFhFukpHM39+YjW3Zfm/msZvf1PaQgSxWdHwBnNjkMxm/b qsqMphO6labqf8Vdw/TAmd43N7ygC6qDuzrTMaffdCYcxQNVGrchecN8qxU6pDgE ZiRgcBS1BxACmCZsSaijAPGnYt8AhvwQayl8fxEa1J4c1e4upe9vzFnkAQt4ji9I BOuJiVcCb6D/aEcq1Cx5f8LNKY6xXZAKIcbRUwdgxWL5lO4pBECS6+ZDtnoyk29K 39r6NT5fJpDMNPkMdWgfyKta1cOGRacPj1QP+C5Q7/uizvBPX2gBs2xGs1YrqfZv KWwiJ9Ee61nsoMGgoy/21onvzuPjj2r1pkO2+cofOAvuL8txzz+KfizMRiPf0YH5 /KJ2UrfX44DMJFjDJQ7wkBGCPEI2FAVuO95Dpgf/3+NO0hS/qx66y7Hsa6K6rDvN bSX1sifK82k/iZsDdIUw/gpfYO4xsQpoYqXeWDcgnZlWRgV+2UpLt8VJEXQqtbsT mJvJC5xOd71SaoOSHZO0jWki9BIhPzulm9AXYJYkUVe1JM0neOg= =F2xL -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --Apple-Mail=_7D383906-6D8E-4253-863D-0D47465AD531-- From nobody Fri May 3 11:57:09 2019 Return-Path: X-Original-To: netmod@ietf.org Delivered-To: netmod@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from ietfa.amsl.com (localhost [IPv6:::1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id EFA711201E0; Fri, 3 May 2019 11:57:06 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: internet-drafts@ietf.org To: Cc: netmod@ietf.org X-Test-IDTracker: no X-IETF-IDTracker: 6.95.1 Auto-Submitted: auto-generated Precedence: bulk Reply-To: netmod@ietf.org Message-ID: <155690982689.7257.3394557372081477520@ietfa.amsl.com> Date: Fri, 03 May 2019 11:57:06 -0700 Archived-At: Subject: [netmod] I-D Action: draft-ietf-netmod-module-tags-08.txt X-BeenThere: netmod@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 List-Id: NETMOD WG list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 03 May 2019 18:57:07 -0000 A New Internet-Draft is available from the on-line Internet-Drafts directories. This draft is a work item of the Network Modeling WG of the IETF. Title : YANG Module Tags Authors : Christian Hopps Lou Berger Dean Bogdanovic Filename : draft-ietf-netmod-module-tags-08.txt Pages : 16 Date : 2019-05-03 Abstract: This document provides for the association of tags with YANG modules. The expectation is for such tags to be used to help classify and organize modules. A method for defining, reading and writing a modules tags is provided. Tags may be registered and assigned during module definition; assigned by implementations; or dynamically defined and set by users. This document also provides guidance to future model writers; as such, this document updates RFC8407. The IETF datatracker status page for this draft is: https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-netmod-module-tags/ There are also htmlized versions available at: https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-netmod-module-tags-08 https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/html/draft-ietf-netmod-module-tags-08 A diff from the previous version is available at: https://www.ietf.org/rfcdiff?url2=draft-ietf-netmod-module-tags-08 Please note that it may take a couple of minutes from the time of submission until the htmlized version and diff are available at tools.ietf.org. Internet-Drafts are also available by anonymous FTP at: ftp://ftp.ietf.org/internet-drafts/ From nobody Fri May 3 12:25:04 2019 Return-Path: X-Original-To: netmod@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: netmod@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id A78681202EA for ; Fri, 3 May 2019 12:24:56 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.9 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.9 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id lzFp-gT0NiAn for ; Fri, 3 May 2019 12:24:54 -0700 (PDT) Received: from smtp.chopps.org (smtp.chopps.org [54.88.81.56]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 16F261202DA for ; Fri, 3 May 2019 12:24:54 -0700 (PDT) Received: from stubbs.int.chopps.org (047-050-069-038.biz.spectrum.com [47.50.69.38]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher DHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (Client did not present a certificate) by smtp.chopps.org (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id ACFD26019B; Fri, 3 May 2019 15:24:52 -0400 (EDT) From: Christian Hopps Message-Id: <5DD64859-91A0-4B28-9FA9-F641AC130F3E@chopps.org> Content-Type: multipart/signed; boundary="Apple-Mail=_B2BE1C70-C824-420E-8809-89F47EBC2BE2"; protocol="application/pgp-signature"; micalg=pgp-sha512 Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 12.4 \(3445.104.8\)) Date: Fri, 3 May 2019 15:24:51 -0400 In-Reply-To: <001201d501a8$63839940$4001a8c0@gateway.2wire.net> Cc: Christian Hopps , Mikael Abrahamsson , Randy Presuhn , "netmod@ietf.org" To: tom petch References: <0c4265d31adbf208a680f76216cc4bc42c766eae.camel@nic.cz> <959ed1a8092f4798ac0b923384962049@XCH-RCD-007.cisco.com> <20190429153643.oxfcq7ze6ttdihb4@anna.jacobs.jacobs-university.de> <20190430061737.vvxghxyacd57k73i@anna.jacobs.jacobs-university.de> <20190430090905.qsa3r4dwauilsxur@anna.jacobs.jacobs-university.de> <20190501111712.347bpz26br6ox3jp@anna.jacobs.jacobs-university.de> <20190501155321.v4qz6twsom45y62f@anna.jacobs.jacobs-university.de> <5CCA58DA.3030801@alumni.stanford.edu> <001201d501a8$63839940$4001a8c0@gateway.2wire.net> X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.3445.104.8) Archived-At: Subject: Re: [netmod] convert it and not throw an error was Re: 6021 ipv4-prefix X-BeenThere: netmod@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: NETMOD WG list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 03 May 2019 19:25:02 -0000 --Apple-Mail=_B2BE1C70-C824-420E-8809-89F47EBC2BE2 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii > On May 3, 2019, at 8:08 AM, tom petch wrote: >=20 > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Mikael Abrahamsson" > To: "Randy Presuhn" > Cc: > Sent: Thursday, May 02, 2019 12:35 PM >=20 >> On Wed, 1 May 2019, Randy Presuhn wrote: >>=20 >>> Hi - >>>=20 >>> On 5/1/2019 12:46 PM, Mikael Abrahamsson wrote: >>> .... >>>> Where is the text that tells the server implementor whether to > throw an >>>> error when client commits non-zero bits, or to just throw the bits > away >>>> and store the value in the canonical format? >>>=20 >>> Such text would be an inappropriate constraint the server's >>> internal representation. We should only specify >>> the externally-visible behaviour: that the reported value >>> will be in the canonical format. Whether an implementation >>> preserves extraneous cruft in its internal representation is >>> purely an implementation decision, and not subject to > standardization. >>=20 >> I am talking about what goes on the wire. If the client does an >> edit-config with ipv6-prefix 2001:db8::1/64, should the server = convert >> this into 2001:db8::/64 or throw an error on the edit-config > operation. >>=20 >> Jurgen seems to say it should convert it and not throw an error, and > I'd >> like text to say that indeed, this is proper behaviour. Nobody has so > far >> been able to tell me where this text currently is, so that's why I'm >> asking for it to be added. Either this should go into an update to >> https://tools.ietf.org/html/rfc7950#section-9.1 or it should go into > each >> and every definition of types (or both of them). >=20 > Mikael >=20 > How about RFC791, still much quoted in all aspects of the work of the > IETF? >=20 > " In general, an implementation must be conservative > in its sending behavior, and liberal in its receiving behavior. That > is, it must be careful to send well-formed datagrams, but must accept > any datagram that it can interpret (e.g., not object to technical > errors where the meaning is still clear)." >=20 > We did not have MUST in those days, but had we, this would have been = one > IMHO. So, this is a good opportunity to mention what has bothered me during = this discussion. Let's for a moment leave aside the "standards language" etc part, and = instead consider "What's actually useful for people who try and run = networks." NETCONF and YANG have the concept of validating configuration, this is = very useful for users. In a previous job I incorrectly started out to = use ipv4-prefix in a model where I really wanted an = ipv4-address-and-prefix (i.e., an interface context). Now consider the = reverse case then where the model really expects a prefix only, and the = user for some reason thinks it will accept and can make use of an = "address-and-prefix". The most obvious indication that the user has got = this wrong is that they have host bits set. So if the server accepts the = value but silently discards the host bits the error is not caught and = the user and server probably have different ideas about what's going to = happen. IOW, I don't think "where the meaning is still clear" applies to = stripping host bits from a value, in fact I think it's more clear that = stripping the host bits is actually ignoring (getting wrong) the user = intent. Thanks, Chris. >=20 > Tom Petch --Apple-Mail=_B2BE1C70-C824-420E-8809-89F47EBC2BE2 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: attachment; filename=signature.asc Content-Type: application/pgp-signature; name=signature.asc Content-Description: Message signed with OpenPGP -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- iQIzBAEBCgAdFiEEm56yH/NF+m1FHa6lLh2DDte4MCUFAlzMlYMACgkQLh2DDte4 MCXqHw//cnvRpg/N328Jt9TRb/Tr0hrT9tcAQ/R5gHVES5M4lXE/YBdJ+NmOd9d1 G22sm6wxKyhzqe2/Pg4Ap+7bU9VFaqqAb96L7CUUAU75SX6saiSyCHBnRFLFIhjx kmKToc76FbtkUrKO6DFrERaqTtFfgFyIzy2/twcq6IL7AtQXGxTYJy/TznR/CDVu kutC9CRYTyCJwVAFeZgssK+DxbXVy9TD+hwsGLWRr/DpRDM1Q+fe+N1jlEY7uxR5 gDktCW4GFk/8L3DN4XgP8Qzncud/1PwewJU1hfljNthnCdUo0NsVCBPfs7isRD1s Xe3yZC9fX3lbr+bPceNHxD9fRsebKkjcXyXv9vhEJi9C8H09d9Jx0BGh1OYz9KTr rmuSBqu9h9rmun58DWwEQFUQy0AVwGNaVMIKV3RyJWGeF5z2vWp5DFVseYUkamRp KqbkCCjyiYJkBIAZKQbjrqKf6qmObZhPwLKYBL+qN1Ui4VKCG8E08mJHsKvvbnNL tsQDBLglnjeXCVYUaaVP74vqag8gwvVwp1XCqI4M/5MZjkJZL41FRPLu/CH+jcxm qI6XqGKrUADm5rfKDwya/rnAUB+1oDT1joJqYZ1YSeQ/xW5wnWCoN6ELgq5pfEjv nm9mxndtcu98byi25nQawxCuybYNqEIxVWLkDGVw1EdECAupOwY= =dRZQ -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --Apple-Mail=_B2BE1C70-C824-420E-8809-89F47EBC2BE2-- From nobody Mon May 6 05:06:49 2019 Return-Path: X-Original-To: netmod@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: netmod@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 70661120144 for ; 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charset="gb2312" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

Hi, Chairs:=

Sorry for late follow = up, thanks Jurgen, Andy,Joe, Joel and all others for good comments, here is= the update based on discussion and suggestion on the mailing list

The diff is:

https://www.ietf.org/rf= cdiff?url2=3Ddraft-wu-netmod-factory-default-03

We believe it is ready= for second adoption poll. Thanks!

 

-Qin (on behalf of aut= hors)

=B7=A2=BC=FE=C8=CB: netmod [mailto= :netmod-bounces@ietf.org] =B4=FA=B1=ED Kent Watsen
=B7=A2=CB=CD=CA=B1=BC=E4:<= /span> 2019=C4=EA4=D4=C29=C8=D5 2:36
=CA=D5=BC=FE=C8=CB: netmod@ietf.org
=D6=F7=CC=E2: Re: [netmod] Adoption poll for draft-wu-netmod-factory-default-02

 

This message concludes the adop= tion poll for draft-wu-netmod-factory-default-02   The working group c= onsensus supports working on the problem, but fundamental concerns were rai= sed regarding the solution, specifically around reseting datastores versus resetting devices.  The chairs feel= that these issues should be addressed before proceeding with the adoption.=

 

= Authors, please update and resubmit the draft addressing the comments recei= ved during the adoption poll.  Another adoption poll will be issued wh= en ready.

Thank you,
Kent (and Lou and Joel)

 



On Mar 25, 2019, at 4:34 PM, Ke= nt Watsen <kent+ietf@wat= sen.net> wrote:

 

This email begins a 2-week adop= tion poll for:





Please voice your support or ob= jections before April 8.



Kent (and Lou)

_______________________________= ________________
netmod mailing list
netmod@ietf.org
https://www.ietf.o= rg/mailman/listinfo/netmod

 

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From: "Joe Clarke (jclarke)" To: Qin Wu CC: Kent Watsen , "netmod@ietf.org" Thread-Topic: [netmod] Adoption poll for draft-wu-netmod-factory-default-02 Thread-Index: AdUEA2FRIxalS4tFStC28aN3YVk9+AARHyeA Date: Mon, 6 May 2019 15:11:32 +0000 Message-ID: References: In-Reply-To: Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-ms-exchange-messagesentrepresentingtype: 1 x-ms-exchange-transport-fromentityheader: Hosted x-originating-ip: [10.118.87.86] Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="_000_EB363D33307A48E7B88608395356BA86ciscocom_" MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Outbound-SMTP-Client: 173.36.7.23, xch-aln-013.cisco.com X-Outbound-Node: alln-core-4.cisco.com Archived-At: Subject: Re: [netmod] Adoption poll for draft-wu-netmod-factory-default-02 X-BeenThere: netmod@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: NETMOD WG list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 06 May 2019 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Mon, 6 May 2019 17:24:28 +0200 Received: from SI-MBX2054.de.bosch.com ([fe80::187:74e0:f8c8:c9b1]) by SI-MBX2054.de.bosch.com ([fe80::187:74e0:f8c8:c9b1%4]) with mapi id 15.01.1713.006; Mon, 6 May 2019 17:24:28 +0200 From: "Schwarz Albrecht (ETAS/ESY1)" To: Juergen Schoenwaelder CC: NetMod WG Thread-Topic: Management Protocol Roles: Client/Server vs Manager/Agent Thread-Index: AdUBk3PTS+EcD5D1QwG4flUjTOYwHwAJx4IAAJhVqNA= Date: Mon, 6 May 2019 15:24:28 +0000 Message-ID: <341a6f3f0dd642f5b2231ac046c40e53@etas.com> References: <941c9e23c3274dcdbca21c22348ca04f@etas.com> <20190503161450.p44lkz6cxzuwjc3d@anna.jacobs.jacobs-university.de> In-Reply-To: <20190503161450.p44lkz6cxzuwjc3d@anna.jacobs.jacobs-university.de> Accept-Language: de-DE, en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-originating-ip: [10.35.83.170] Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Brightmail-Tracker: H4sIAAAAAAAAA22Tf0wbZRjHea/XcpTedhwrfcaomsv8RzMs6DZER/hnODUKm44Y08Rd5Wgr tCW9QlbQWGFmyHTFsUVogPFrxiCMHwpbDNtICyo4RrfAqBhZRWS4kZnFIRsqeMeVtX/4z5vv +zzP5/n15iVkdDuRSJitDs5uZQsZhRJXpndqd3Ts9+t11Z/q0iZ7HqC001c/kGdi+9raHmD7 ugdfzMHeVD6fxxWaSzj7UxmHlKbAqhsvCjCHg4vDmAv5kqpQDAHUM9DbtawQNU3VYdDki6tC SkF3IPjNO6GQLncQLPuP4dLlAoLFH3xyEVFQmTByvWId3yJod/+xdS2jHoWa+3exKkQQ8VQW HFl7VQp5Ae597AqFp4N7rCda1Di1HZqrb8tETVK7IbjQLpc6ehfGjnSvx8RQ2fDjahCJGlFa 6O4el0mlNDA9dxqTpqGgbUCyA6WG339dlUv6MZgavYlL8ckQOHUy1OaT8HnzRt04GKmbw6uR xhOR1hOBeCIQTwTShPB2lJDP6UosutRndbpku4HjS3UpyW/bLL1IeizVeTTcZvQiikCMityV 4tfTcraEd1q8aCeBMWryteZxPb3JYMtzmlje9Ja9uJDjmUQyyf+Sno5/aOaLDRYzz5ttVi8C QsZsIdn5K3qazGOdpZzdJmFetI3AGQ1pJLL1NGVkHVwBxxVx9g3vcwTBAFmfLfQQZ+eM3OF8 c6Fjw81oSRQVFUUnRHoiy2JEjBc9TaiE2kfFFCRfxFp4szGEb5VwesMaRkfRQWKw5ZcGGTGy LJ73js4K5/Ge+QYZjVttVi5RQ2bmCBkpkTUVWx/2lJhE+jDBoY5whPPeQlNI2Go8SYiwSvgl 4W6A3CYuMC5kDEOprQJD/RkP9bOvwN/nnNC4GsSh/NSCHIbn/5BDx+VpBZyobYyG84H2aPhw KRgNgYsBAgLzfymha60yFr4fcsfCzMV+FZw4M6qC2r4lEvq/vrYZLle7aGj0l9Nwv+MLGi6N fUtD5cokDTPjrWqY+3dRDRPDTQkw8cmlBGhp+Aqg0jMAMNQ/BDC9dHcrDLq6kuCjFvcjt4RF Y8KiGyvFR+YdrON/Fh2yhmdLdCGmzNIZayBnnD5Nc8zLN8renyueuuaeTc9v3VPHtBxyYKW5 aQetTWMnz03VZryzY/Mbm/quZ3dWeX66kJOhvs1f0X5X01Nf3nnT8PPxlb17e2FP1oD2LGSd Lei78V6FfvafLx13DqRe3b/g2709paZsRfnZgqFiV27uN49TBTmvT67tZHDexKY8IbPz7H+/ vfzTvQQAAA== Archived-At: Subject: Re: [netmod] Management Protocol Roles: Client/Server vs Manager/Agent X-BeenThere: netmod@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: NETMOD WG list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 06 May 2019 15:24:37 -0000 Hello Juergen, thanks for feedback! > It all boils down how you define the terms Manager and Agent. With NETCON= F/RESTCONF and YANG, the initial focus was on the interaction between the s= erver maintaining configuration datastores and the client manipulating conf= iguration datastores (leaving out notifications for now, they actually came= later). The relevant role semantics originate at application level (and not at lowe= r levels such as specific protocol layers), i.e., management applications (= =3D the primary scope of NETCONF/RESTCONF). That (native) roles are defined in ITU-T Recommendations X.701, M.3010, M.3= 700, and others, and in RFCs 3411, 3413, 3512, and others (in case of SNMP)= . Crucial, underlying concept is the Management Application Context (often si= mply "context" in SNMP RFCs). A manager gots normally exclusive access to a specific management applicati= on context. Multiple manager usually don't share the same application conte= xt (due to access conflicts, synchronization issues, etc). That's why the 1:N ratio of management manager to management agent(s). (I'm aware that these high-level management roles are further refined by e.= g. considering the sub-roles of command generator, command responder, notif= ication originator, notification receiver), see RFC 3413 or ITU-T X.703.) Now, I had in mind that in client/server applications an application contex= t is normally not distributed over multiple servers (but I might be wrong). Anyway, looks like that I found in the meanwhile a hint to my question in R= FC 6632, clause 1.3, stating the equation of: (Management) Agent =3D NETCONF Management Server (Management) Manager =3D NETCONF Management Client Thanks again! Albrecht PS An interesting exercise (for students?:-) might be the attempt to map NETCO= NF management roles on the distributed management architecture of ITU-T X.7= 03, which differentiates the four roles of - Managing client - Managing server - Managed client - Managed server with "Managing" =3D "Manager" and "Managed" =3D "Agent". :-) Mit freundlichen Gr=FC=DFen / Best regards Dr. Albrecht Schwarz Systems Engineering (ETAS/ESY1)=20 Tel. +49 711 3423-2380 | Mobil +49 173 9792 632 | Albrecht.Schwarz@etas.com -----Original Message----- From: Juergen Schoenwaelder =20 Sent: 03 May 2019 18:15 To: Schwarz Albrecht (ETAS/ESY1) Cc: Andy Bierman ; NetMod WG Subject: Re: Management Protocol Roles: Client/Server vs Manager/Agent On Fri, May 03, 2019 at 10:43:50AM +0000, Schwarz Albrecht (ETAS/ESY1) wrot= e: > Leading (for me) to a principle dilemma from (management) protocol=20 > engineering perspective due to > a) Manager-to-Agent =3D 1:N > b) Client-to-Server =3D N:1 > c) and the mapping approach in NETCONF/NETMOD of Manager-to-Client and Ag= ent-to-Server in my understanding. The problem is that you leave the plural 's' out. ;-) Client-to-Server is 1:1 (=3D Manager-to-Agent) Client-to-Servers is 1:N (= =3D Manager-to-Agents) Clients-to-Server is N:1 (=3D Managers-to-Agent) > I'm being aware that a distributed management solution needs to=20 > resolve the various role assignments in a layered management=20 > communication architecture at the various levels, e.g., for Management=20 > Application MA-over-RESTCONF-over-HTTP-over-TCP-over- ... as > 1) Application level (MA): Manager to Agent(s) > 2) Application layer management protocol =3D RESTCONF: Manager to=20 > Agent(s) > 3) Session layer =3D HTTP: Client(s) to Server > 4) Transport layer =3D TCP: Client(s) to Server >=20 > I fail to see, or do miss the background/justification why the notion of = client/server is used in RFCs about YANG, NMDA, NETCONF? Instead of manager= /agent. > It all boils down how you define the terms Manager and Agent. With NETCONF/= RESTCONF and YANG, the initial focus was on the interaction between the ser= ver maintaining configuration datastores and the client manipulating config= uration datastores (leaving out notifications for now, they actually came l= ater). /js --=20 Juergen Schoenwaelder Jacobs University Bremen gGmbH Phone: +49 421 200 3587 Campus Ring 1 | 28759 Bremen | Germany Fax: +49 421 200 3103 From nobody Mon May 6 18:57:37 2019 Return-Path: X-Original-To: netmod@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: netmod@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 08E1612004F for ; Mon, 6 May 2019 18:57:36 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -4.199 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-4.199 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-2.3, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org 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[69.181.241.121]) by smtp.gmail.com with ESMTPSA id a26sm20054127pfl.177.2019.05.06.20.36.31 for (version=TLS1_2 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 bits=128/128); Mon, 06 May 2019 20:36:31 -0700 (PDT) To: netmod@ietf.org References: <941c9e23c3274dcdbca21c22348ca04f@etas.com> <20190503161450.p44lkz6cxzuwjc3d@anna.jacobs.jacobs-university.de> <341a6f3f0dd642f5b2231ac046c40e53@etas.com> From: Randy Presuhn Message-ID: <5CD0FD41.2080001@alumni.stanford.edu> Date: Mon, 6 May 2019 20:36:33 -0700 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 6.0; rv:38.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/38.5.0 MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: <341a6f3f0dd642f5b2231ac046c40e53@etas.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Archived-At: Subject: Re: [netmod] Management Protocol Roles: Client/Server vs Manager/Agent X-BeenThere: netmod@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: NETMOD WG list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 07 May 2019 03:36:36 -0000 Hi - On 5/6/2019 8:24 AM, Schwarz Albrecht (ETAS/ESY1) wrote: ... > The relevant role semantics originate at application level (and not > at lower levels such as specific protocol layers), i.e., management > applications (= the primary scope of NETCONF/RESTCONF). > That (native) roles are defined in ITU-T Recommendations X.701, M.3010, M.3700, > and others, and in RFCs 3411, 3413, 3512, and others (in case of SNMP). > Crucial, underlying concept is the Management Application Context > (often simply "context" in SNMP RFCs). No. The concept of "application context" as used in X.701 has no equivalent in the SNMP universe. It's needed in X.701 because of the decision to permit the negotiation of roles upon establishment of an association. In fundamentally connectionless SNMP, such negotiation would make no sense. When the word "context" is used in the SNMP universe, it refers to a completely different concept, one introduced primarily in order to work around deficiencies in the naming architecture resulting from MIB modules using the SMI. See, for example, RFC 3415. > A manager gots normally exclusive access to a specific management > application context. Not true in either the CMIP nor in the SNMP universes. > Multiple manager usually don't share the same application context Not true in either the CMIP nor in the SNMP universes, and not true for either meaning of the word "context". > (due to access conflicts, synchronization issues, etc). No, that's why, for example, things like VACM and the the TestAndIncr textual convention are used in the SNMP world, and why a rudimentary locking facility has been present in Netconf since the early days. > That's why the 1:N ratio of management manager to management agent(s). That's not a realistic assumption for any kind of "industrial-strength" management architecture. > (I'm aware that these high-level management roles are further refined > by e.g. considering the sub-roles of command generator, command responder, > notification originator, notification receiver), see RFC 3413 or ITU-T X.703.) I would not rely on X.703 as a source of terminological clarity in this forum. As an attempt to re-frame CMIP in terms of CORBA-speak, it long post-dates the split between the IETF and ISO/ITU communities. As for RFC 3413, I think we were abundantly clear that the use of the "sub-roles" was fore purely expository purposes, and that whether there might be any corresponding division within an implementation would be, well, an implementation matter. > Now, I had in mind that in client/server applications an application > context is normally not distributed over multiple servers (but I might > be wrong). ... Consider, for example, aggregating management proxies. The "disman" MIBS should provide ample examples. Randy From nobody Tue May 7 11:37:55 2019 Return-Path: X-Original-To: netmod@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: netmod@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id C502E120233 for ; Tue, 7 May 2019 11:37:53 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.01 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.01 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, T_DKIMWL_WL_HIGH=-0.01] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (1024-bit key) header.d=ericsson.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id fG6LDSE7uet9 for ; Tue, 7 May 2019 11:37:51 -0700 (PDT) Received: from NAM01-BN3-obe.outbound.protection.outlook.com (mail-eopbgr740054.outbound.protection.outlook.com [40.107.74.54]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id C56E4120235 for ; 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DIR:OUT; SFP:1101; SCL:1; SRVR:BL0PR1501MB2148; H:BL0PR1501MB2179.namprd15.prod.outlook.com; FPR:; SPF:None; LANG:en; PTR:InfoNoRecords; MX:1; A:1; received-spf: None (protection.outlook.com: ericsson.com does not designate permitted sender hosts) x-ms-exchange-senderadcheck: 1 x-microsoft-antispam-message-info: Rx/riseGkawluONYSEMd9DUEm0XUtCLRWlu015GU3jYimj9SSEL7qSkKlDbk4fMiTCODphRc3Qx3dLN12shxUJ3YJDmrA2QrswEZiKnTTOda539DaUnAGTfGqqbU7cu/6zQWqc0M7aU0szqkTc9OSCa9z7vyYzZS55BHtkbjxFVjLATYfAhTxT6gv3sldfRnVXbf/ijPHyZRqPG0DfHxzP4t4VOSoBSIvS5bgqrapF1Gilu35GJr26p+iWyopDp5FAxaiITEgFnoLpr3CyRpY/ZLAYIoOBy/zngbbLumpvzBvpSl8FANCAg7cruSTJEH3CfiuAqHZrxeNg+YqFb2fTqJ9Y2AnyAq4frX48VJRX+mLd+9Ekg1LkwdMP/czXpYGDi9BvuldKbUb5n/Lpftg1jQsTWYhaV8ue81YVEo+mk= Content-Type: multipart/signed; protocol="application/x-pkcs7-signature"; micalg=SHA1; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0F15_01D504E2.6CEC1970" MIME-Version: 1.0 X-OriginatorOrg: ericsson.com X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-Network-Message-Id: 5a14f193-2b00-4b42-7382-08d6d31b180f X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-originalarrivaltime: 07 May 2019 18:37:43.9548 (UTC) X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-fromentityheader: Hosted X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-id: 92e84ceb-fbfd-47ab-be52-080c6b87953f X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-mailboxtype: HOSTED X-MS-Exchange-Transport-CrossTenantHeadersStamped: BL0PR1501MB2148 Archived-At: Subject: [netmod] YANG and TimeFilter X-BeenThere: netmod@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: NETMOD WG list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 07 May 2019 18:37:54 -0000 ------=_NextPart_000_0F15_01D504E2.6CEC1970 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_001_0F16_01D504E2.6CEC1970" ------=_NextPart_001_0F16_01D504E2.6CEC1970 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hello Netmod, I'm looking at using a feature like the TimeFilter textual convention (RFC2021 -> RFC 4502) found for RMON2 MIB in a NETCONF/YANG context. I searched the YangCatalog for such a thing and didn't find anything like TimeFilter. Has there been any work related to this type of filter? I am working on a YANG module that would like to return a subset of remote system data filtered by time. Any thoughts? Apologies if this has been asked before. I did look through the netmod list archive and grepped the modules here (https://github.com/YangModels/yang/tree/master/experimental/ietf-extracted- YANG-modules) and here (https://github.com/YangModels/yang/tree/master/standard/ietf/RFC). Thanks, -scott. ------=_NextPart_001_0F16_01D504E2.6CEC1970 Content-Type: text/html; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

Hello Netmod,

 

I’m = looking at using a feature like the TimeFilter textual convention = (RFC2021 -> RFC 4502) found for RMON2 MIB in a NETCONF/YANG = context.  I searched the YangCatalog for such a thing and = didn’t find anything like TimeFilter.  Has there been any = work related to this type of filter?  I am working on a YANG module = that would like to return a subset of remote system data filtered by = time.

 

Any thoughts?  Apologies if this has been asked = before… I did look through the netmod list archive and grepped the = modules here (https://github.com/YangModels/yang/tree/master/ex= perimental/ietf-extracted-YANG-modules) and here (https://github.com/YangModels/yang/tree/master/standard/ietf/RFC).

 

Thanks,

-scott.

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from si0vm1948.rbesz01.com (unknown [139.15.230.188]) by si0vms0217.rbdmz01.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 44zWX06Mjvz4f3kZR; Wed, 8 May 2019 11:34:24 +0200 (CEST) Received: from si0vm02576.rbesz01.com (unknown [10.58.172.176]) by si0vm1948.rbesz01.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 44zWX061TSz1Tm; Wed, 8 May 2019 11:34:24 +0200 (CEST) X-AuditID: 0a3aad0d-15bff700000036fe-75-5cd2a2a08fed Received: from si0vm1950.rbesz01.com ( [10.58.173.29]) (using TLS with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (Client did not present a certificate) by si0vm02576.rbesz01.com (SMG Outbound) with SMTP id E2.C6.14078.0A2A2DC5; Wed, 8 May 2019 11:34:24 +0200 (CEST) Received: from SI-MBX2054.de.bosch.com (unknown [10.3.230.148]) by si0vm1950.rbesz01.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 44zWX04DKDz5fJ; Wed, 8 May 2019 11:34:24 +0200 (CEST) Received: from SI-MBX2054.de.bosch.com (10.3.230.148) by SI-MBX2054.de.bosch.com (10.3.230.148) with Microsoft SMTP Server (version=TLS1_2, cipher=TLS_ECDHE_RSA_WITH_AES_256_GCM_SHA384) id 15.1.1713.5; Wed, 8 May 2019 11:34:24 +0200 Received: from SI-MBX2054.de.bosch.com ([fe80::187:74e0:f8c8:c9b1]) by SI-MBX2054.de.bosch.com ([fe80::187:74e0:f8c8:c9b1%4]) with mapi id 15.01.1713.006; Wed, 8 May 2019 11:34:24 +0200 From: "Schwarz Albrecht (ETAS/ESY1)" To: Randy Presuhn , "netmod@ietf.org" Thread-Topic: [netmod] Management Protocol Roles: Client/Server vs Manager/Agent Thread-Index: AdUBk3PTS+EcD5D1QwG4flUjTOYwHwAJx4IAAJhVqNAAFlktgABC8CqQ Date: Wed, 8 May 2019 09:34:24 +0000 Message-ID: <481f9c0c703c40b79a02a99c73b9be43@etas.com> References: <941c9e23c3274dcdbca21c22348ca04f@etas.com> <20190503161450.p44lkz6cxzuwjc3d@anna.jacobs.jacobs-university.de> <341a6f3f0dd642f5b2231ac046c40e53@etas.com> <5CD0FD41.2080001@alumni.stanford.edu> In-Reply-To: <5CD0FD41.2080001@alumni.stanford.edu> Accept-Language: de-DE, en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-originating-ip: [10.35.83.170] Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Brightmail-Tracker: H4sIAAAAAAAAA22Tb0wTdxjH+fXuylF7eD1o+6zAXBqXbOgcylQyzOaLZRpfTFwWY0wTd5WD NtCW9Fq0xhjsRAgqKoHNFhGEatjmBhrpCOpwrfsDmxaLWmZip04nFqMMHYJb1t15YPtiby7f 3/e5z/d57rk7EmM8pI40Wx2c3cqW6+UKXPH2VzlvtLWHDXme9tyC1ss7iYL60NepK2Wr/wyG 8dU+37SsSLZRsaKYKzdXcvY33/lYYaqefL1iXLf1UV8HUYV2auoQSQL9FnTUbqxDCpKhPTI4 F4lh0uEEgsunf8Klw0MEfwV/lEuHcwgO9T5FdSiNlNMrYeDaJ3IxKpM2wNDoZtHOoNfB+T1u magz6Q+h4UwDkvT7cGPAnypqnJ4Pw4cDhKgpejl8OrZ/ptkwgos9h+ViIY3Oh/F46/MgROdA d3cIEzVGa+H6HckHmgbfWckHWg33f/+XkPQrEBm8h0v3L4S2MxNySS+A40fHMKmxCgY8d/AD SONNivUmId4kxJuEtCH8C6ThzXmVlrwlS5cvW2Q3cvy2vMWLNtssp5D0hqhedGmyJIBoEumV 1M+rwgaGYCt5lyWAlpIyvZpS1wtWutFW7DKxvGmT3VnO8XodlT20xsBkvLB5p9Fi5nmzzRpA QGL6TCpyUOCoYta1jbPbJCyAskhcr6VKybUGhi5lHVwZx1Vw9tlqIUnqgWpsE0CVnSvltpaY yx2zZX0OhVJSUhhNciW5rYxMC6B8Uin07hEjKL6CtfDm0hn8JQlnZt0EOojWkufbb7Vg5MBT 8fqk5nYLxuBWm5XTaSnVUSGLFimT0/piGl02FZQNGRh1UiGRGEMRJOwzgwqJgyiFnyIxB1BZ 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Helpful, appreciated! Albrecht -----Original Message----- From: netmod On Behalf Of Randy Presuhn Sent: 07 May 2019 05:37 To: netmod@ietf.org Subject: Re: [netmod] Management Protocol Roles: Client/Server vs Manager/A= gent Hi - On 5/6/2019 8:24 AM, Schwarz Albrecht (ETAS/ESY1) wrote: .... > The relevant role semantics originate at application level (and not at=20 > lower levels such as specific protocol layers), i.e., management=20 > applications (=3D the primary scope of NETCONF/RESTCONF). > That (native) roles are defined in ITU-T Recommendations X.701,=20 > M.3010, M.3700, and others, and in RFCs 3411, 3413, 3512, and others (in = case of SNMP). > Crucial, underlying concept is the Management Application Context=20 > (often simply "context" in SNMP RFCs). No. The concept of "application context" as used in X.701 has no equivalen= t in the SNMP universe. It's needed in X.701 because of the decision to pe= rmit the negotiation of roles upon establishment of an association. In fun= damentally connectionless SNMP, such negotiation would make no sense. When the word "context" is used in the SNMP universe, it refers to a compl= etely different concept, one introduced primarily in order to work around d= eficiencies in the naming architecture resulting from MIB modules using the= SMI. See, for example, RFC 3415. > A manager gots normally exclusive access to a specific management=20 > application context. Not true in either the CMIP nor in the SNMP universes. > Multiple manager usually don't share the same application context Not true in either the CMIP nor in the SNMP universes, and not true for eit= her meaning of the word "context". > (due to access conflicts, synchronization issues, etc). No, that's why, for example, things like VACM and the the TestAndIncr textu= al convention are used in the SNMP world, and why a rudimentary locking fac= ility has been present in Netconf since the early days. > That's why the 1:N ratio of management manager to management agent(s). That's not a realistic assumption for any kind of "industrial-strength" man= agement architecture. > (I'm aware that these high-level management roles are further refined=20 > by e.g. considering the sub-roles of command generator, command=20 > responder, notification originator, notification receiver), see RFC=20 > 3413 or ITU-T X.703.) I would not rely on X.703 as a source of terminological clarity in this for= um. As an attempt to re-frame CMIP in terms of CORBA-speak, it long post-d= ates the split between the IETF and ISO/ITU communities. As for RFC 3413, I think we were abundantly clear that the use of the "sub-= roles" was fore purely expository purposes, and that whether there might be= any corresponding division within an implementation would be, well, an imp= lementation matter. > Now, I had in mind that in client/server applications an application=20 > context is normally not distributed over multiple servers (but I might=20 > be wrong). .... Consider, for example, aggregating management proxies. The "disman" MIBS should provide ample examples. 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13:53:27 +0200 (CEST) Message-Id: <20190508.135327.825252846107256677.mbj@tail-f.com> To: ietfc@btconnect.com Cc: jclarke@cisco.com, bill.wu@huawei.com, netmod@ietf.org From: Martin Bjorklund In-Reply-To: <065d01d50591$173d7c80$4001a8c0@gateway.2wire.net> References: <065d01d50591$173d7c80$4001a8c0@gateway.2wire.net> X-Mailer: Mew version 6.7 on Emacs 25.2 / Mule 6.0 (HANACHIRUSATO) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: Text/Plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 Archived-At: Subject: Re: [netmod] Adoption poll for draft-wu-netmod-factory-default-02 X-BeenThere: netmod@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: NETMOD WG list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 08 May 2019 11:53:30 -0000 dG9tIHBldGNoIDxpZXRmY0BidGNvbm5lY3QuY29tPiB3cm90ZToNCj4gLS0tLS0gT3JpZ2luYWwg TWVzc2FnZSAtLS0tLQ0KPiBGcm9tOiAiSm9lIENsYXJrZSAoamNsYXJrZSkiIDxqY2xhcmtlQGNp 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PiBfX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fXw0KPiA+IG5l dG1vZCBtYWlsaW5nIGxpc3QNCj4gPiBuZXRtb2RAaWV0Zi5vcmc8bWFpbHRvOm5ldG1vZEBpZXRm Lm9yZz4NCj4gPiBodHRwczovL3d3dy5pZXRmLm9yZy9tYWlsbWFuL2xpc3RpbmZvL25ldG1vZA0K PiA+DQo+ID4NCj4gDQo+IA0KPiAtLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0t LS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0NCj4gLS0tLS0tLS0NCj4gDQo+IA0K PiA+IF9fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fDQo+ID4g bmV0bW9kIG1haWxpbmcgbGlzdA0KPiA+IG5ldG1vZEBpZXRmLm9yZw0KPiA+IGh0dHBzOi8vd3d3 LmlldGYub3JnL21haWxtYW4vbGlzdGluZm8vbmV0bW9kDQo+ID4NCj4gDQo+IF9fX19fX19fX19f X19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fDQo+IG5ldG1vZCBtYWlsaW5nIGxp c3QNCj4gbmV0bW9kQGlldGYub3JnDQo+IGh0dHBzOi8vd3d3LmlldGYub3JnL21haWxtYW4vbGlz dGluZm8vbmV0bW9kDQo= From nobody Wed May 8 05:08:14 2019 Return-Path: X-Original-To: netmod@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: netmod@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3CFDC12004C for ; Wed, 8 May 2019 05:08:13 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.899 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.899 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id WQI0Wita6fWl for ; Wed, 8 May 2019 05:08:10 -0700 (PDT) Received: from atlas5.jacobs-university.de (atlas5.jacobs-university.de [212.201.44.20]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher AECDH-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 88C3012003F for ; Wed, 8 May 2019 05:08:10 -0700 (PDT) Received: from localhost (demetrius5.irc-it.jacobs-university.de [10.70.0.222]) by atlas5.jacobs-university.de (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2BD4CBBC; Wed, 8 May 2019 14:08:09 +0200 (CEST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at jacobs-university.de Received: from atlas5.jacobs-university.de ([10.70.0.217]) by localhost (demetrius5.jacobs-university.de [10.70.0.222]) (amavisd-new, port 10032) with ESMTP id xEPoFn_EHUBa; Wed, 8 May 2019 14:08:09 +0200 (CEST) Received: from hermes.jacobs-university.de (hermes.jacobs-university.de [212.201.44.23]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (Client CN "hermes.jacobs-university.de", Issuer "Jacobs University CA - G01" (verified OK)) by atlas5.jacobs-university.de (Postfix) with ESMTPS; Wed, 8 May 2019 14:08:09 +0200 (CEST) Received: from localhost (demetrius5.irc-it.jacobs-university.de [10.70.0.222]) by hermes.jacobs-university.de (Postfix) with ESMTP id 15ABA200F0; Wed, 8 May 2019 14:08:09 +0200 (CEST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at jacobs-university.de Received: from hermes.jacobs-university.de ([212.201.44.23]) by localhost (demetrius5.jacobs-university.de [10.70.0.222]) (amavisd-new, port 10028) with ESMTP id YXtili2cdXib; Wed, 8 May 2019 14:08:08 +0200 (CEST) Received: from exchange.jacobs-university.de (sxchmb03.jacobs.jacobs-university.de [10.70.0.155]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (Client CN "exchange.jacobs-university.de", Issuer "DFN-Verein Global Issuing CA" (verified OK)) by hermes.jacobs-university.de (Postfix) with ESMTPS id BD2FE200EC; Wed, 8 May 2019 14:08:08 +0200 (CEST) Received: from anna.localdomain (10.50.218.117) by sxchmb03.jacobs.jacobs-university.de (10.70.0.155) with Microsoft SMTP Server (version=TLS1_2, cipher=TLS_ECDHE_RSA_WITH_AES_256_GCM_SHA384) id 15.1.1713.5; Wed, 8 May 2019 14:08:08 +0200 Received: by anna.localdomain (Postfix, from userid 501) id B72E03008E59EA; Wed, 8 May 2019 14:08:07 +0200 (CEST) Date: Wed, 8 May 2019 14:08:07 +0200 From: Juergen Schoenwaelder To: Martin Bjorklund CC: , Message-ID: <20190508120807.czpzkct6tkxafduc@anna.jacobs.jacobs-university.de> Reply-To: Juergen Schoenwaelder Mail-Followup-To: Martin Bjorklund , ietfc@btconnect.com, netmod@ietf.org References: <065d01d50591$173d7c80$4001a8c0@gateway.2wire.net> <20190508.135327.825252846107256677.mbj@tail-f.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <20190508.135327.825252846107256677.mbj@tail-f.com> User-Agent: NeoMutt/20180716 X-ClientProxiedBy: SXCHMB03.jacobs.jacobs-university.de (10.70.0.155) To sxchmb03.jacobs.jacobs-university.de (10.70.0.155) Archived-At: Subject: Re: [netmod] Adoption poll for draft-wu-netmod-factory-default-02 X-BeenThere: netmod@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: NETMOD WG list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 08 May 2019 12:08:13 -0000 On Wed, May 08, 2019 at 01:53:27PM +0200, Martin Bjorklund wrote: > > > > Joe > > > > If you look at the various RFC - YANG, Netconf, NMDA - they all define > > the terms 'client' and 'server'; in the context, 'YANG server' seems > > appropriate. > > I agree w/ Joe. I had the same comment when I read > draft-ietf-netmod-yang-instance-file-format; it uses the term "YANG > server". > > I think these documents should import and use the term "server" from > RFC 8342 where it is defined as: > > o server: An entity that provides access to YANG-defined data to a > client, over some network management protocol. > > Perhaps we should have a term "YANG-based server" or something as an > alias to "server" as defined above. In some documents the short word > "server" may sound too generic. But "YANG server" doesn't sound right > to me. > I find terms like 'YANG server' or 'YANG-based server' a bit confusing since the server is not talking YANG (there is no YANG protocol) and the server is also not sending/receiving YANG but YANG-defined data. Unless there is a possibility of confusion, importing the 'server' definition from RFC 8342 and using the terms 'server' is perhaps good enough. /js -- Juergen Schoenwaelder Jacobs University Bremen gGmbH Phone: +49 421 200 3587 Campus Ring 1 | 28759 Bremen | Germany Fax: +49 421 200 3103 From nobody Wed May 8 14:51:58 2019 Return-Path: <0100016a996e6b55-6274d956-7a6e-4d56-b88b-524723053cdb-000000@amazonses.watsen.net> X-Original-To: netmod@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: netmod@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5D795120194 for ; Wed, 8 May 2019 14:51:55 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.898 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.898 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (1024-bit key) header.d=amazonses.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id ESdvo5pidz1i for ; Wed, 8 May 2019 14:51:53 -0700 (PDT) Received: from a8-32.smtp-out.amazonses.com (a8-32.smtp-out.amazonses.com [54.240.8.32]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 1600C120199 for ; Wed, 8 May 2019 14:51:52 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; q=dns/txt; c=relaxed/simple; s=6gbrjpgwjskckoa6a5zn6fwqkn67xbtw; d=amazonses.com; t=1557352311; h=From:Content-Type:Mime-Version:Subject:Message-Id:Date:To:Feedback-ID; bh=6qBYyyurpKlJve1aVEv1iEc2ZCk0Ov1Eix5GQ8UuMH0=; b=L71ZfH2ihDYAJvpRBSlnurEa4P1eJFTgSFFZgYp6dC7kt651DqE4YU2XAiP+lxPI hFU8h3ZcUlBtoP6pDimUcdZMNs993yj4vsCq404m/C6gVGd4wUqdBT0AvyNGr7BIJeA krwiE/ZM8yR1WgnBKcHP/vmj9O1j0eSuGX3sx8OM= From: Kent Watsen Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="Apple-Mail=_8058A881-0FC3-4348-B131-9265FC851B4F" Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 12.2 \(3445.102.3\)) Message-ID: <0100016a996e6b55-6274d956-7a6e-4d56-b88b-524723053cdb-000000@email.amazonses.com> Date: Wed, 8 May 2019 21:51:51 +0000 To: "netmod@ietf.org" X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.3445.102.3) X-SES-Outgoing: 2019.05.08-54.240.8.32 Feedback-ID: 1.us-east-1.DKmIRZFhhsBhtmFMNikgwZUWVrODEw9qVcPhqJEI2DA=:AmazonSES Archived-At: Subject: [netmod] Adoption poll for draft-wu-netmod-factory-default-03 X-BeenThere: netmod@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: NETMOD WG list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 08 May 2019 21:51:56 -0000 --Apple-Mail=_8058A881-0FC3-4348-B131-9265FC851B4F Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii This email begins a 1-week adoption poll for: https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-wu-netmod-factory-default-03 As we already have consensus from the previous poll to work on the = problem, this poll primarily seeks for objections for using -03 as a = basis for WG adoption (the document will be adopted if no objections are = raised). Of course, a show of support is also always encouraged. All, = please voice your support or objections before May 15. =20 Authors, already there have been good comments for how to improve the = document. However, please refrain from posting an update incorporating = these comments until after this adoption poll closes, at which time the = instruction will be to post a -00 with minimal changes, followed by a = -01 incorporating the comments. PS: the IPR poll conducted on Mar 25 is still considered valid. Kent // co-chair --Apple-Mail=_8058A881-0FC3-4348-B131-9265FC851B4F Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/html; charset=us-ascii
This = email begins a 1-week adoption poll for:

  =   https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-wu-netmod-factory-default-03<= /a>

As we already = have consensus from the previous poll to work on the problem, this = poll primarily seeks for objections for using -03 as a basis for WG = adoption (the document will be adopted if no objections are raised).  Of course, a show of support = is also always encouraged.   All, please voice your support or = objections before May 15.   

Authors, already there have been good comments for how to = improve the document.  However, please refrain from posting an = update incorporating these comments until after this adoption = poll closes, at which time the instruction will be to post a -00 with = minimal changes, followed by a -01 incorporating the = comments.

PS: the IPR poll conducted on Mar 25 = is still considered valid.

Kent  // = co-chair


= --Apple-Mail=_8058A881-0FC3-4348-B131-9265FC851B4F-- From nobody Wed May 8 20:12:04 2019 Return-Path: X-Original-To: netmod@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: netmod@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4A557120103 for ; Wed, 8 May 2019 20:12:03 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -4.2 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-4.2 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-2.3, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id ip1bL1DJ72_u for ; Wed, 8 May 2019 20:12:01 -0700 (PDT) Received: from huawei.com (lhrrgout.huawei.com [185.176.76.210]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 9540412004D for ; Wed, 8 May 2019 20:12:01 -0700 (PDT) Received: from lhreml706-cah.china.huawei.com (unknown [172.18.7.107]) by Forcepoint Email with ESMTP id 350FE2AD08F5261AC1D8 for ; Thu, 9 May 2019 04:12:00 +0100 (IST) Received: from dggeme704-chm.china.huawei.com (10.1.199.100) by lhreml706-cah.china.huawei.com (10.201.108.47) with Microsoft SMTP Server (TLS) id 14.3.408.0; Thu, 9 May 2019 04:11:59 +0100 Received: from dggeme752-chm.china.huawei.com (10.3.19.98) by dggeme704-chm.china.huawei.com (10.1.199.100) with Microsoft SMTP Server (version=TLS1_2, cipher=TLS_ECDHE_RSA_WITH_AES_128_CBC_SHA256_P256) id 15.1.1591.10; Thu, 9 May 2019 11:11:57 +0800 Received: from dggeme752-chm.china.huawei.com ([10.6.80.76]) by dggeme752-chm.china.huawei.com ([10.6.80.76]) with mapi id 15.01.1591.008; Thu, 9 May 2019 11:11:57 +0800 From: "Wubo (lana)" To: Kent Watsen , "netmod@ietf.org" Thread-Topic: [netmod] Adoption poll for draft-wu-netmod-factory-default-03 Thread-Index: AdUGFGH6hAbOkfIE4kipvqEgGTTVQw== Date: Thu, 9 May 2019 03:11:57 +0000 Message-ID: <63fdbc1dd84049e0a0f48fff6476c3da@huawei.com> Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: zh-CN X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-originating-ip: [10.134.189.23] Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="_000_63fdbc1dd84049e0a0f48fff6476c3dahuaweicom_" MIME-Version: 1.0 X-CFilter-Loop: Reflected Archived-At: Subject: Re: [netmod] Adoption poll for draft-wu-netmod-factory-default-03 X-BeenThere: netmod@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: NETMOD WG list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 09 May 2019 03:12:03 -0000 --_000_63fdbc1dd84049e0a0f48fff6476c3dahuaweicom_ Content-Type: text/plain; charset="gb2312" Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 SSBzdXBwb3J0IFdHIGFkb3B0aW9uLg0KSSBoYXZlIHJlYWQgdGhlIGRyYWZ0IGFuZCB0aGluayBp dCBoZWxwcyBuZXR3b3JrIGF1dG8tY29uZmlndXJhdGlvbiBhbmQgaW50ZXJvcGVyYWJpbGl0eS4N ClRoYW5rcywNCkJvDQoNCreivP7IyzogbmV0bW9kIFttYWlsdG86bmV0bW9kLWJvdW5jZXNAaWV0 Zi5vcmddILT6se0gS2VudCBXYXRzZW4NCreiy83KsbzkOiAyMDE5xOo11MI5yNUgNTo1Mg0KytW8 /sjLOiBuZXRtb2RAaWV0Zi5vcmcNCtb3zOI6IFtuZXRtb2RdIEFkb3B0aW9uIHBvbGwgZm9yIGRy YWZ0LXd1LW5ldG1vZC1mYWN0b3J5LWRlZmF1bHQtMDMNCg0KVGhpcyBlbWFpbCBiZWdpbnMgYSAx LXdlZWsgYWRvcHRpb24gcG9sbCBmb3I6DQoNCiAgICBodHRwczovL3Rvb2xzLmlldGYub3JnL2h0 bWwvZHJhZnQtd3UtbmV0bW9kLWZhY3RvcnktZGVmYXVsdC0wMw0KQXMgd2UgYWxyZWFkeSBoYXZl IGNvbnNlbnN1cyBmcm9tIHRoZSBwcmV2aW91cyBwb2xsIHRvIHdvcmsgb24gdGhlIHByb2JsZW0s IHRoaXMgcG9sbCBwcmltYXJpbHkgc2Vla3MgZm9yIG9iamVjdGlvbnMgZm9yIHVzaW5nIC0wMyBh cyBhIGJhc2lzIGZvciBXRyBhZG9wdGlvbiAodGhlIGRvY3VtZW50IHdpbGwgYmUgYWRvcHRlZCBp ZiBubyBvYmplY3Rpb25zIGFyZSByYWlzZWQpLiAgT2YgY291cnNlLCBhIHNob3cgb2Ygc3VwcG9y dCBpcyBhbHNvIGFsd2F5cyBlbmNvdXJhZ2VkLiAgIEFsbCwgcGxlYXNlIHZvaWNlIHlvdXIgc3Vw cG9ydCBvciBvYmplY3Rpb25zIGJlZm9yZSBNYXkgMTUuDQoNCkF1dGhvcnMsIGFscmVhZHkgdGhl cmUgaGF2ZSBiZWVuIGdvb2QgY29tbWVudHMgZm9yIGhvdyB0byBpbXByb3ZlIHRoZSBkb2N1bWVu dC4gIEhvd2V2ZXIsIHBsZWFzZSByZWZyYWluIGZyb20gcG9zdGluZyBhbiB1cGRhdGUgaW5jb3Jw b3JhdGluZyB0aGVzZSBjb21tZW50cyB1bnRpbCBhZnRlciB0aGlzIGFkb3B0aW9uIHBvbGwgY2xv c2VzLCBhdCB3aGljaCB0aW1lIHRoZSBpbnN0cnVjdGlvbiB3aWxsIGJlIHRvIHBvc3QgYSAtMDAg d2l0aCBtaW5pbWFsIGNoYW5nZXMsIGZvbGxvd2VkIGJ5IGEgLTAxIGluY29ycG9yYXRpbmcgdGhl IGNvbW1lbnRzLg0KDQpQUzogdGhlIElQUiBwb2xsIGNvbmR1Y3RlZCBvbiBNYXIgMjUgaXMgc3Rp bGwgY29uc2lkZXJlZCB2YWxpZC4NCg0KS2VudCAgLy8gY28tY2hhaXINCg0KDQo= --_000_63fdbc1dd84049e0a0f48fff6476c3dahuaweicom_ Content-Type: text/html; charset="gb2312" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

I support WG adoption.

I have read the draft and think it he= lps network auto-configuration and interoperability.

Thanks,

Bo

 

=B7=A2=BC=FE=C8= =CB: netmod [mailto:netmod-bounces@ietf.org] =B4=FA=B1=ED Kent Watsen
=B7=A2=CB=CD=CA=B1=BC=E4: 2019=C4=EA5=D4=C29=C8=D5 5:52
=CA=D5=BC=FE=C8=CB: netmod@ietf.org
=D6=F7=CC=E2: [netmod] Adoption poll for= draft-wu-netmod-factory-default-03

 

This email begins a 1-week adoption poll for:

 

    https://tools.i= etf.org/html/draft-wu-netmod-factory-default-03

As we already have consensus from the previous poll to = work on the problem, this poll primarily seeks for objections for usin= g -03 as a basis for WG adoption (the document will be adopted if no objections are raised).  Of course, a show of support is also a= lways encouraged.   All, please voice your support or objections = before May 15.   

 

Authors, already there have been good comments for how to improve= the document.  However, please refrain from posting an update in= corporating these comments until after this adoption poll closes, at which time the instruction will be to post a -00 with minimal c= hanges, followed by a -01 incorporating the comments.

 

PS: the IPR poll conducted on Mar 25 is still considered valid.


Kent  // co-chair

 

 

--_000_63fdbc1dd84049e0a0f48fff6476c3dahuaweicom_-- From nobody Thu May 9 06:51:37 2019 Return-Path: X-Original-To: netmod@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: netmod@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 61D651202A7 for ; Thu, 9 May 2019 06:51:30 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -4.2 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-4.2 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-2.3, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id m2NOxTwDbBcN for ; Thu, 9 May 2019 06:51:27 -0700 (PDT) Received: from huawei.com (lhrrgout.huawei.com [185.176.76.210]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 3ED9812016C for ; Thu, 9 May 2019 06:51:27 -0700 (PDT) Received: from lhreml704-cah.china.huawei.com (unknown [172.18.7.106]) by Forcepoint Email with ESMTP id 9FFA0A2E1A4BC8A4B3F7; Thu, 9 May 2019 14:51:25 +0100 (IST) Received: from lhreml702-chm.china.huawei.com (10.201.108.51) by lhreml704-cah.china.huawei.com (10.201.108.45) with Microsoft SMTP Server (TLS) id 14.3.408.0; Thu, 9 May 2019 14:51:25 +0100 Received: from lhreml702-chm.china.huawei.com (10.201.108.51) by lhreml702-chm.china.huawei.com (10.201.108.51) with Microsoft SMTP Server (version=TLS1_2, cipher=TLS_ECDHE_RSA_WITH_AES_128_CBC_SHA256_P256) id 15.1.1713.5; Thu, 9 May 2019 14:51:25 +0100 Received: from NKGEML411-HUB.china.huawei.com (10.98.56.70) by lhreml702-chm.china.huawei.com (10.201.108.51) with Microsoft SMTP Server (version=TLS1_0, cipher=TLS_ECDHE_RSA_WITH_AES_128_CBC_SHA_P256) id 15.1.1713.5 via Frontend Transport; Thu, 9 May 2019 14:51:24 +0100 Received: from NKGEML513-MBX.china.huawei.com ([169.254.1.144]) by nkgeml411-hub.china.huawei.com ([10.98.56.70]) with mapi id 14.03.0415.000; Thu, 9 May 2019 21:51:22 +0800 From: Qin Wu To: Juergen Schoenwaelder , "Martin Bjorklund" CC: netmod Thread-Topic: [netmod] Adoption poll for draft-wu-netmod-factory-default-02 Thread-Index: AdUEA2FRIxalS4tFStC28aN3YVk9+ABTjY2AAACDIYAARqk4TQ== Date: Thu, 9 May 2019 13:51:21 +0000 Message-ID: References: <065d01d50591$173d7c80$4001a8c0@gateway.2wire.net> <20190508.135327.825252846107256677.mbj@tail-f.com>, <20190508120807.czpzkct6tkxafduc@anna.jacobs.jacobs-university.de> In-Reply-To: <20190508120807.czpzkct6tkxafduc@anna.jacobs.jacobs-university.de> Accept-Language: zh-CN, en-US Content-Language: zh-CN X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: Content-Type: multipart/alternative; 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charset="gb2312" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Thank Juergen, Marti= n and Tom for good suggestions, will address your comments in the update af= ter adoption.


Qin Wu
Mobile=A3=BA+86-13914734360(Mob= ile Number)
Email=A3=BAbill.wu@huawei.com



=B7=A2=BC=FE=C8=CB=A3=BA Juergen Schoenwaelder<j.schoenwaelder@jacobs-universit= y.de>
=CA=D5=BC=FE=C8=CB=A3=BA Martin Bjorklund<mbj@tail-f.com>
=B3=AD=CB=CD=A3=BA netmod<netmod@ietf.org>
=D6=F7=CC=E2=A3=BA Re: [netmod] Adoption poll for draft-wu-netm= od-factory-default-02
=CA=B1=BC=E4=A3=BA 2019-05-08 20:08:40

On Wed, May 08, 2019 at 01:53:27PM +0200, Mart= in Bjorklund wrote:
> >
> > Joe
> >
> > If you look at the various RFC - YANG, Netconf, NMDA - they all d= efine
> > the terms 'client' and 'server'; in the context, 'YANG server' se= ems
> > appropriate.
>
> I agree w/ Joe.  I had the same comment when I read
> draft-ietf-netmod-yang-instance-file-format; it uses the term "YA= NG
> server".
>
> I think these documents should import and use the term "server&qu= ot; from
> RFC 8342 where it is defined as:
>
>    o  server: An entity that provides access to YA= NG-defined data to a
>       client, over some network manageme= nt protocol.
>
> Perhaps we should have a term "YANG-based server" or somethi= ng as an
> alias to "server" as defined above.  In some documents = the short word
> "server" may sound too generic.  But "YANG server&= quot; doesn't sound right
> to me.
>

I find terms like 'YANG server' or 'YANG-based server' a bit confusing
since the server is not talking YANG (there is no YANG protocol) and
the server is also not sending/receiving YANG but YANG-defined data.

Unless there is a possibility of confusion, importing the 'server'
definition from RFC 8342 and using the terms 'server' is perhaps good
enough.

/js

--
Juergen Schoenwaelder         =   Jacobs University Bremen gGmbH
Phone: +49 421 200 3587        = Campus Ring 1 | 28759 Bremen | Germany
Fax:   +49 421 200 3103      &n= bsp;  <https://www.ja= cobs-university.de/>

_______________________________________________
netmod mailing list
netmod@ietf.org
https://www.ietf.o= rg/mailman/listinfo/netmod
 --_000_B8F9A780D330094D99AF023C5877DABAA490E148nkgeml513mbxchi_-- From nobody Thu May 9 07:27:36 2019 Return-Path: X-Original-To: netmod@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: netmod@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 93ED0120116 for ; Thu, 9 May 2019 07:27:35 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -14.51 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-14.51 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_HI=-5, SPF_PASS=-0.001, T_DKIMWL_WL_MED=-0.01, USER_IN_DEF_DKIM_WL=-7.5] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (1024-bit key) header.d=cisco.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 0GHXq8gS00rc for ; Thu, 9 May 2019 07:27:33 -0700 (PDT) Received: from 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"netmod@ietf.org" Thread-Topic: [netmod] Adoption poll for draft-wu-netmod-factory-default-02 Thread-Index: AdUEdfEQIxalS4tFStC28aN3YVk9+ACJ0juA Date: Thu, 9 May 2019 14:27:23 +0000 Message-ID: <44CC722E-8CCC-4FFC-99BB-5412A0C03964@cisco.com> References: In-Reply-To: Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-ms-exchange-messagesentrepresentingtype: 1 x-ms-exchange-transport-fromentityheader: Hosted x-originating-ip: [10.154.88.116] Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="_000_44CC722E8CCC4FFC99BB5412A0C03964ciscocom_" MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Outbound-SMTP-Client: 173.37.102.22, xch-rcd-012.cisco.com X-Outbound-Node: rcdn-core-6.cisco.com Archived-At: Subject: Re: [netmod] Adoption poll for draft-wu-netmod-factory-default-02 X-BeenThere: netmod@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: NETMOD WG list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 09 May 2019 14:27:35 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cHJvcHJpYXRlLg0KDQpJdCB3YXMgdGhlIGNvbWJpbmF0aW9uIG9mIHRoZSB0d28gd29yZHMgYXMg 4oCcWUFORyBzZXJ2ZXLigJ0gd2hpY2ggdGhyb3dzIG1lLiAgWW914oCZcmUgc2VydmluZyBkYXRh IG1vZGVsZWQgdXNpbmcgWUFORy4gIEFueXdheSwgaXQgc291bmRzIGxpa2UgdGhlcmXigJlzIGEg Z29vZCByZWZlcmVudGlhbCBzb2x1dGlvbiB0byB0aGlzIGZyb20gSsO8cmdlbiBhbmQgTWFydGlu LCBzbyB0aGF0IHNob3VsZCBzb3J0IHRoaXMgb3V0Lg0KDQpKb2UNCg0K From nobody Thu May 9 13:48:02 2019 Return-Path: X-Original-To: netmod@ietf.org Delivered-To: netmod@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from ietfa.amsl.com (localhost [IPv6:::1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4509E120145; Thu, 9 May 2019 13:48:00 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: IETF Meeting Session Request Tool To: Cc: netmod-chairs@ietf.org, ibagdona@gmail.com, lberger@labn.net, netmod@ietf.org X-Test-IDTracker: no X-IETF-IDTracker: 6.96.0 Auto-Submitted: auto-generated Precedence: bulk Message-ID: <155743488027.24588.3517404777218968638.idtracker@ietfa.amsl.com> Date: Thu, 09 May 2019 13:48:00 -0700 Archived-At: Subject: [netmod] netmod - New Meeting Session Request for IETF 105 X-BeenThere: netmod@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 List-Id: NETMOD WG list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 09 May 2019 20:48:00 -0000 A new meeting session request has just been submitted by Lou Berger, a Chair of the netmod working group. --------------------------------------------------------- Working Group Name: Network Modeling Area Name: Operations and Management Area Session Requester: Lou Berger Number of Sessions: 2 Length of Session(s): 2 Hours, 2 Hours Number of Attendees: 100 Conflicts to Avoid: First Priority: netconf Second Priority: rtgwg i2rs teas Third Priority: saag People who must be present: Lou Berger Joel Jaeggli Kent Watsen Ignas Bagdonas Resources Requested: Special Requests: --------------------------------------------------------- From nobody Thu May 9 23:38:45 2019 Return-Path: X-Original-To: netmod@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: netmod@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 90A58120169 for ; Thu, 9 May 2019 23:38:43 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -4.3 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-4.3 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-2.3, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (1024-bit key) header.d=swm.pp.se Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id cxp0cCmth91b for ; Thu, 9 May 2019 23:38:40 -0700 (PDT) Received: from uplift.swm.pp.se (swm.pp.se [212.247.200.143]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id A055E12019B for ; Thu, 9 May 2019 23:38:37 -0700 (PDT) Received: by uplift.swm.pp.se (Postfix, from userid 501) id 561E6B2; Fri, 10 May 2019 08:38:34 +0200 (CEST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/simple; d=swm.pp.se; s=mail; t=1557470314; bh=XgSPn5KxQZzAzpwI4fByGUkcC3ALAJkytShrMpKI8Dc=; h=Date:From:To:cc:Subject:In-Reply-To:References:From; b=pA4Fo1njPfNyglepbQZFjAg6Cs+9Vt3OyjJ4ktTc0eu6+Ym7NmDBi8qIcgFFLd1o2 8mW73UDVvWRSJh+vPwGmCcJvWMiYVkvfQDk6ZAkS/mB9ceSNJ8m9CXNERyldyQ1PXD Khf0r86ZEnTOrV22rQlHjmU7uCICSzhhpjvIhDqU= Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by uplift.swm.pp.se (Postfix) with ESMTP id 542BEB1; Fri, 10 May 2019 08:38:34 +0200 (CEST) Date: Fri, 10 May 2019 08:38:34 +0200 (CEST) From: Mikael Abrahamsson To: Kent Watsen cc: "netmod@ietf.org" In-Reply-To: <0100016a996e6b55-6274d956-7a6e-4d56-b88b-524723053cdb-000000@email.amazonses.com> Message-ID: References: <0100016a996e6b55-6274d956-7a6e-4d56-b88b-524723053cdb-000000@email.amazonses.com> User-Agent: Alpine 2.20 (DEB 67 2015-01-07) Organization: People's Front Against WWW MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed Archived-At: Subject: Re: [netmod] Adoption poll for draft-wu-netmod-factory-default-03 X-BeenThere: netmod@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: NETMOD WG list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 10 May 2019 06:38:44 -0000 On Wed, 8 May 2019, Kent Watsen wrote: > This email begins a 1-week adoption poll for: > > https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-wu-netmod-factory-default-03 > > As we already have consensus from the previous poll to work on the > problem, this poll primarily seeks for objections for using -03 as a > basis for WG adoption (the document will be adopted if no objections are > raised). Of course, a show of support is also always encouraged. All, > please voice your support or objections before May 15. I support working on this problem and the draft seems to provide a feasible approach to the problem space. We had to create our own factory-default RPC augmentation but we put it into our software management module instead. I'd prefer to use a standards-based one and this approach seems viable. -- Mikael Abrahamsson email: swmike@swm.pp.se From nobody Fri May 10 03:50:53 2019 Return-Path: X-Original-To: netmod@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: netmod@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9EF22120072 for ; Fri, 10 May 2019 03:50:51 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: 0.248 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=0.248 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, RATWARE_MS_HASH=2.148, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=no autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (1024-bit key) header.d=btconnect.onmicrosoft.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id bIQDInBiT8PT for ; Fri, 10 May 2019 03:50:49 -0700 (PDT) Received: from EUR04-VI1-obe.outbound.protection.outlook.com (mail-eopbgr80094.outbound.protection.outlook.com [40.107.8.94]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 3611B120026 for ; 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DIR:OUT; SFP:1102; SCL:1; SRVR:VI1PR07MB4192; H:VI1PR07MB3118.eurprd07.prod.outlook.com; FPR:; SPF:None; LANG:en; PTR:InfoNoRecords; A:0; MX:1; received-spf: None (protection.outlook.com: btconnect.com does not designate permitted sender hosts) x-ms-exchange-senderadcheck: 1 x-microsoft-antispam-message-info: MSSbcd19NzKlzXQWNbOoDlFKR/v4/fsGGhjJt8sTV5VyAIKfLz3UxCUp6jRDNoKGMk9bGWHrYM5U47RU/fQtTQh0ekKXjQnbqkoePD/883gfu8tamaByiQcQNPnSvraZmhcyguUsuklUns64fc62QO0RatWAbGf6FeoF13CEQupizHWpax0M87OubTuPfJ52ChIf9pGkXiWq5hKm/gyPN4vIF08M2KOoKGy49898Ue0sKs4cFB1mVaZPV6XRSrnSLKbnp/WrauegUl40ZH34aYge3uMSMN5UHbbS09/q+SBYNllBPK7TZqA0iap51TjPL7ZLAVuEr5avry4ZXxCmF15aKMCpqm4qFnfo03DDEf3mei6Ko2BV+nbieNFlPs+gnHHKgWcK/plb8uyPds+C7gaCGi4sE/dJdaHcCa1Bfiw= Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-ID: Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-OriginatorOrg: btconnect.com X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-Network-Message-Id: 7216f800-1b5c-4009-8f07-08d6d5355b4a X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-originalarrivaltime: 10 May 2019 10:50:46.2978 (UTC) X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-fromentityheader: Hosted X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-id: cf8853ed-96e5-465b-9185-806bfe185e30 X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-mailboxtype: HOSTED X-MS-Exchange-Transport-CrossTenantHeadersStamped: VI1PR07MB4192 Archived-At: Subject: Re: [netmod] Adoption poll for draft-wu-netmod-factory-default-02 X-BeenThere: netmod@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: NETMOD WG list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 10 May 2019 10:50:52 -0000 LS0tLS0gT3JpZ2luYWwgTWVzc2FnZSAtLS0tLQ0KRnJvbTogIkpvZSBDbGFya2UgKGpjbGFya2Up IiA8amNsYXJrZUBjaXNjby5jb20+DQpTZW50OiBUaHVyc2RheSwgTWF5IDA5LCAyMDE5IDM6Mjgg UE0NCg0KPg0KPiA+IE9uIE1heSA4LCAyMDE5LCBhdCAwNzozMSwgdG9tIHBldGNoIDxpZXRmY0Bi dGNvbm5lY3QuY29tPiB3cm90ZToNCj4gPg0KPiA+IC0tLS0tIE9yaWdpbmFsIE1lc3NhZ2UgLS0t LS0NCj4gPiBGcm9tOiAiSm9lIENsYXJrZSAoamNsYXJrZSkiIDxqY2xhcmtlQGNpc2NvLmNvbT4N Cj4gPiBTZW50OiBNb25kYXksIE1heSAwNiwgMjAxOSA0OjExIFBNDQo+ID4+DQo+ID4+IE9uIE1h eSA2LCAyMDE5LCBhdCAwODowNiwgUWluIFd1DQo+ID4gPGJpbGwud3VAaHVhd2VpLmNvbTxtYWls dG86YmlsbC53dUBodWF3ZWkuY29tPj4gd3JvdGU6DQo+ID4+DQo+ID4+IEhpLCBDaGFpcnM6DQo+ ID4+IFNvcnJ5IGZvciBsYXRlIGZvbGxvdyB1cCwgdGhhbmtzIEp1cmdlbiwgQW5keSxKb2UsIEpv ZWwgYW5kIGFsbA0Kb3RoZXJzDQo+ID4gZm9yIGdvb2QgY29tbWVudHMsIGhlcmUgaXMgdGhlIHVw ZGF0ZSBiYXNlZCBvbiBkaXNjdXNzaW9uIGFuZA0Kc3VnZ2VzdGlvbg0KPiA+IG9uIHRoZSBtYWls aW5nIGxpc3QNCj4gPj4gVGhlIGRpZmYgaXM6DQo+ID4+DQpodHRwczovL3d3dy5pZXRmLm9yZy9y ZmNkaWZmP3VybDI9ZHJhZnQtd3UtbmV0bW9kLWZhY3RvcnktZGVmYXVsdC0wMw0KPiA+Pg0KPiA+ PiBIZXksIFFpbi4gIEkgcmVhZCB0aHJvdWdoIHRoZSBjaGFuZ2VzLCBhbmQgSSBoYXZlIGEgY291 cGxlIG9mDQo+ID4gYWRkaXRpb25hbCBjb21tZW50cy4NCj4gPj4NCj4gPj4gRmlyc3QsIHRoZSB0 ZXJtIOKAnFlBTkcgc2VydmVy4oCdIHNvdW5kcyBvZGQgdG8gbWUuICBJIGtub3cgd2hhdCB5b3UN Cm1lYW4sDQo+ID4gYnV0IEkgaGF2ZW7igJl0IHNlZW4gdGhpcyBkZWZpbmVkIGJlZm9yZS4gIE1h eWJlIGp1c3Qgc2F5aW5nIGEgZGV2aWNlDQpvcg0KPiA+IGhvc3QgaXMgc3VmZmljaWVudD8NCj4g Pg0KPiA+IEpvZQ0KPiA+DQo+ID4gSWYgeW91IGxvb2sgYXQgdGhlIHZhcmlvdXMgUkZDIC0gWUFO RywgTmV0Y29uZiwgTk1EQSAtIHRoZXkgYWxsDQpkZWZpbmUNCj4gPiB0aGUgdGVybXMgJ2NsaWVu dCcgYW5kICdzZXJ2ZXInOyBpbiB0aGUgY29udGV4dCwgJ1lBTkcgc2VydmVyJyBzZWVtcw0KPiA+ IGFwcHJvcHJpYXRlLg0KPg0KPiBJdCB3YXMgdGhlIGNvbWJpbmF0aW9uIG9mIHRoZSB0d28gd29y ZHMgYXMg4oCcWUFORyBzZXJ2ZXLigJ0gd2hpY2ggdGhyb3dzDQptZS4gIFlvdeKAmXJlIHNlcnZp bmcgZGF0YSBtb2RlbGVkIHVzaW5nIFlBTkcuICBBbnl3YXksIGl0IHNvdW5kcyBsaWtlDQp0aGVy ZeKAmXMgYSBnb29kIHJlZmVyZW50aWFsIHNvbHV0aW9uIHRvIHRoaXMgZnJvbSBKw7xyZ2VuIGFu ZCBNYXJ0aW4sIHNvDQp0aGF0IHNob3VsZCBzb3J0IHRoaXMgb3V0Lg0KDQpKb2UsDQoNCnllcywg SSBjYW4gc2VlIHdoYXQgeW91IG1lYW4uICBJIHdhcyBvYmplY3RpbmcgdG8gdGhlIHVzZSBvZiAn aG9zdCcsDQonZGV2aWNlJyBvciBzdWNoIGxpa2UgaGF2aW5nIGp1c3QgcmVhZA0KZHJhZnQtZGFp LXF1aWMtbmV0Y29uZi0wMC50eHQNCndoaWNoIHdhbnRzIHRvIHJlc2VydmUgY2xpZW50IGFuZCBz ZXJ2ZXIgZm9yIHRoZSB0cmFuc3BvcnQgYW5kIGdvIHRvDQptYW5hZ2VyIGFuZCBhZ2VudCBmb3Ig bmV0Y29uZi4NCg0KV2UgaGF2ZSBiZWVuIGRvd24gdGhpcyByb2FkIGJlZm9yZSwgd2l0aCBTTk1Q IGFuZCBORVRDT05GLCBhbmQgdGhlDQpjb25mdXNpb24gaXQgY3JlYXRlcyBpcyBjb25zaWRlcmFi bGUuICBJZiBhdXRob3JzIGNhbm5vdCBjb3BlIHdpdGgNCndlbGwtZXN0YWJsaXNoZWQgdGVybWlu b2xvZ3ksIHRoZW4gdGhleSBzaG91bGQgbm90IGJlIHdyaXRpbmcgSS1EcyAtIGlmDQp0aGF0IEkt RCBjb21lcyB1cCBmb3IgYWRvcHRpb24gaW4gaXRzIHByZXNlbnQgZm9ybSwgSSB3aWxsIHJlc29s dXRlbHkNCm9wcG9zZSwgYWxsIHRoZSB3YXkgdG8gSUVURiBMYXN0IENhbGwuDQoNCjwvcmFudD4N Cg0KVG9tIFBldGNoDQoNCj4gSm9lDQo+DQo+DQoNCg== From nobody Sun May 12 14:19:51 2019 Return-Path: X-Original-To: netmod@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: netmod@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1C013120163 for ; 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Sun, 12 May 2019 15:19:45 -0600 From: Lou Berger To: NetMod WG Cc: NetMod WG Chairs Message-ID: Date: Sun, 12 May 2019 17:19:44 -0400 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 10.0; WOW64; rv:60.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/60.6.1 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Language: en-US X-AntiAbuse: This header was added to track abuse, please include it with any abuse report X-AntiAbuse: Primary Hostname - box313.bluehost.com X-AntiAbuse: Original Domain - ietf.org X-AntiAbuse: Originator/Caller UID/GID - [47 12] / [47 12] X-AntiAbuse: Sender Address Domain - labn.net X-BWhitelist: no X-Source-IP: 72.66.11.201 X-Source-L: No X-Exim-ID: 1hPvsn-000zFk-80 X-Source: X-Source-Args: X-Source-Dir: X-Source-Sender: pool-72-66-11-201.washdc.fios.verizon.net ([IPv6:::1]) [72.66.11.201]:51920 X-Source-Auth: lberger@labn.net X-Email-Count: 7 X-Source-Cap: bGFibm1vYmk7bGFibm1vYmk7Ym94MzEzLmJsdWVob3N0LmNvbQ== X-Local-Domain: yes Archived-At: Subject: [netmod] WG Last Call: draft-ietf-netmod-artwork-folding-02 X-BeenThere: netmod@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: NETMOD WG list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sun, 12 May 2019 21:19:50 -0000 All, This starts a two-week working group last call for draft-ietf-netmod-artwork-folding-02 The working group last call ends on May 27. Please send your comments to the working group mailing list. Positive comments, e.g., "I've reviewed this document and believe it is ready for publication", are welcome! This is useful and important, even from authors. Thank you, NetMod Chairs From nobody Sun May 12 14:22:03 2019 Return-Path: X-Original-To: netmod@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: netmod@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 21261120157 for ; Sun, 12 May 2019 14:22:01 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.901 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.901 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_H2=-0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (768-bit key) header.d=labn.net Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id NdWPgNmvQ-9V for ; Sun, 12 May 2019 14:21:59 -0700 (PDT) Received: from gproxy1-pub.mail.unifiedlayer.com (gproxy1-pub.mail.unifiedlayer.com [69.89.25.95]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 1FC71120129 for ; Sun, 12 May 2019 14:21:59 -0700 (PDT) Received: from cmgw10.unifiedlayer.com (unknown [10.9.0.10]) by gproxy1.mail.unifiedlayer.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0798BA7332D8E for ; Sun, 12 May 2019 15:17:42 -0600 (MDT) Received: from box313.bluehost.com ([69.89.31.113]) by cmsmtp with ESMTP id PvqnhuWsCsFwgPvqnhu1Wi; Sun, 12 May 2019 15:17:41 -0600 X-Authority-Reason: nr=8 X-Authority-Analysis: v=2.3 cv=PIYhB8iC c=1 sm=1 tr=0 a=h1BC+oY+fLhyFmnTBx92Jg==:117 a=h1BC+oY+fLhyFmnTBx92Jg==:17 a=IkcTkHD0fZMA:10:nop_charset_1 a=xqWC_Br6kY4A:10:nop_ipv6 a=E5NmQfObTbMA:10:nop_rcvd_month_year a=Vy_oeq2dmq0A:10:endurance_base64_authed_username_1 a=48vgC7mUAAAA:8 a=-tsAPJKn6S7ax0J5AdsA:9 a=QEXdDO2ut3YA:10:nop_charset_2 a=Ig16_jW4bggA:10:nop_malware_emotet_link_5 a=w1C3t2QeGrPiZgrLijVG:22 a=pHzHmUro8NiASowvMSCR:22 a=Ew2E2A-JSTLzCXPT_086:22 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; q=dns/txt; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=labn.net; s=default; h=Content-Transfer-Encoding:Content-Type:MIME-Version:Date: Message-ID:Cc:To:Subject:From:Sender:Reply-To:Content-ID:Content-Description: Resent-Date:Resent-From:Resent-Sender:Resent-To:Resent-Cc:Resent-Message-ID: In-Reply-To:References:List-Id:List-Help:List-Unsubscribe:List-Subscribe: List-Post:List-Owner:List-Archive; bh=QmHrF4+KxpYx/pxNL42m0qG0YeZvE4M+IBodrKhIXMU=; b=srIfqtiutbfREP5UNk9fFrQm/D cPVnClTx5XnBbmyxYR9LpI0ykNlbV52sCTDwdIa5BMiKwsEP5f/GLCRLJQd1iOZmDdvVB9cV+IUiy xNhgc7mWxN5fD1SvS3z4lP2iL; Received: from pool-72-66-11-201.washdc.fios.verizon.net ([72.66.11.201]:51742 helo=[IPv6:::1]) by box313.bluehost.com with esmtpsa (TLSv1.2:ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256:128) (Exim 4.91) (envelope-from ) id 1hPvqn-000yqa-K6; Sun, 12 May 2019 15:17:41 -0600 From: Lou Berger To: Kent Watsen , "adrian@olddog.co.uk" , bill.wu@huawei.com, afarrel@juniper.net Cc: NetMod WG Chairs , NetMod WG Message-ID: Date: Sun, 12 May 2019 17:17:40 -0400 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 10.0; WOW64; rv:60.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/60.6.1 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Language: en-US X-AntiAbuse: This header was added to track abuse, please include it with any abuse report X-AntiAbuse: Primary Hostname - box313.bluehost.com X-AntiAbuse: Original Domain - ietf.org X-AntiAbuse: Originator/Caller UID/GID - [47 12] / [47 12] X-AntiAbuse: Sender Address Domain - labn.net X-BWhitelist: no X-Source-IP: 72.66.11.201 X-Source-L: No X-Exim-ID: 1hPvqn-000yqa-K6 X-Source: X-Source-Args: X-Source-Dir: X-Source-Sender: pool-72-66-11-201.washdc.fios.verizon.net ([IPv6:::1]) [72.66.11.201]:51742 X-Source-Auth: lberger@labn.net X-Email-Count: 6 X-Source-Cap: bGFibm1vYmk7bGFibm1vYmk7Ym94MzEzLmJsdWVob3N0LmNvbQ== X-Local-Domain: yes Archived-At: Subject: [netmod] Regarding IPR on draft-ietf-netmod-artwork-folding-02 X-BeenThere: netmod@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: NETMOD WG list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sun, 12 May 2019 21:22:01 -0000 Authors, Contributors, WG, As part of WG Last Call Are you aware of any IPR that applies to drafts identified above? Please state either: "No, I'm not aware of any IPR that applies to this draft" or "Yes, I'm aware of IPR that applies to this draft" If so, has this IPR been disclosed in compliance with IETF IPR rules (see RFCs 3669, 5378 and 8179 for more details)? If yes to the above, please state either: "Yes, the IPR has been disclosed in compliance with IETF IPR rules" or "No, the IPR has not been disclosed" If you answer no, please provide any additional details you think appropriate. If you are listed as a document author or contributor please answer the above by responding to this email regardless of whether or not you are aware of any relevant IPR. This document will not advance to the next stage until a response has been received from each author and listed contributor. NOTE: THIS APPLIES TO ALL OF YOU LISTED IN THIS MESSAGE'S TO LINES. If you are on the WG email list or attend WG meetings but are not listed as an author or contributor, we remind you of your obligations under the IETF IPR rules which encourages you to notify the IETF if you are aware of IPR of others on an IETF contribution, or to refrain from participating in any contribution or discussion related to your undisclosed IPR. For more information, please see the RFCs listed above and http://trac.tools.ietf.org/group/iesg/trac/wiki/IntellectualProperty. Thank you, NetMod WG Chairs PS Please include all listed in the headers of this message in your response. From nobody Sun May 12 14:30:24 2019 Return-Path: X-Original-To: netmod@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: netmod@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id DF798120163; Sun, 12 May 2019 14:30:23 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.599 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.599 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW=-0.7, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id Rb-ti9_9nW10; Sun, 12 May 2019 14:30:21 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mta7.iomartmail.com (mta7.iomartmail.com [62.128.193.157]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id DA34012000E; Sun, 12 May 2019 14:30:20 -0700 (PDT) Received: from vs3.iomartmail.com (vs3.iomartmail.com [10.12.10.124]) by mta7.iomartmail.com (8.14.4/8.14.4) with ESMTP id x4CLUBTf002037; Sun, 12 May 2019 22:30:11 +0100 Received: from vs3.iomartmail.com (unknown [127.0.0.1]) by IMSVA (Postfix) with ESMTP id A33822203A; Sun, 12 May 2019 22:30:10 +0100 (BST) Received: from asmtp3.iomartmail.com (unknown [10.12.10.224]) by vs3.iomartmail.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 8DEC122032; Sun, 12 May 2019 22:30:10 +0100 (BST) Received: from LAPTOPK7AS653V (4.196.bbplus.pte-ag1.dyn.plus.net [81.174.196.4] (may be forged)) (authenticated bits=0) by asmtp3.iomartmail.com (8.14.4/8.14.4) with ESMTP id x4CLU7Am026650 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 bits=256 verify=NO); Sun, 12 May 2019 22:30:08 +0100 Reply-To: From: "Adrian Farrel" To: "'Lou Berger'" , "'Kent Watsen'" , Cc: "'NetMod WG Chairs'" , "'NetMod WG'" References: In-Reply-To: Date: Sun, 12 May 2019 22:30:05 +0100 Organization: Old Dog Consulting Message-ID: <009201d50909$e0362c60$a0a28520$@olddog.co.uk> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook 16.0 Thread-Index: AQJEJ2GBUWIK1gETndIxgvHGZ9MBjqWJwvVA Content-Language: en-gb X-Originating-IP: 81.174.196.4 X-Thinkmail-Auth: adrian@olddog.co.uk X-TM-AS-GCONF: 00 X-TM-AS-Product-Ver: IMSVA-9.0.0.1623-8.2.0.1013-24610.002 X-TM-AS-Result: No--4.239-10.0-31-10 X-imss-scan-details: No--4.239-10.0-31-10 X-TMASE-Version: IMSVA-9.0.0.1623-8.2.1013-24610.002 X-TMASE-Result: 10--4.238700-10.000000 X-TMASE-MatchedRID: UuaOI1zLN1jxIbpQ8BhdbLvDCO1MjiwQqnabhLgnhmjEDKpuLqDeoCZK RIFpXA+BMXEn4M+GcWtkRjKJ4WcSvMt+2Xe+MgKzdXu122+iJtpZBUTVqP/d0rV5fSMRD1zqPk7 szcK45eD1SzhmuM96r29iKGLgMHiUXBtzGjIuBpm8coKUcaOOvSH2Y0Xxk8nYlNU3cWIuTKjMAN AT2oeJJGjBhqXjBGJgLEh2rosnnTddpLkh5p97g3uzDvI75j0saXmdXF2Ym8elyfbzMrA/wvpGc UVZJmzP9ogJ7z2I9NqP9uLyz1kjdJya2tEru0x7cTwOmq5GKdAfXzVgO0hVquSXcP3D9BzPkpCW zIXhzQERnrkKGK4/PF+24nCsUSFNVAADMmTH9KgrN8z0HohG3voLR4+zsDTthUfR2rvBju5Z7lU nGQaMTAeuyf83ctuC+4FLTR7HIMQpACmR032UXWBVGD4iGCmAKeyNcavskCncHO3jNE4aIykZT1 1IHfBCmalIsRMV2vZtmS0aXb567KfItuohgjfnw/3NmPJsa4pNWfnUnboMLyBJEZlhLWrQQwymt xuJ6y0= X-TMASE-SNAP-Result: 1.821001.0001-0-1-12:0,22:0,33:0,34:0-0 Archived-At: Subject: Re: [netmod] Regarding IPR on draft-ietf-netmod-artwork-folding-02 X-BeenThere: netmod@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: NETMOD WG list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sun, 12 May 2019 21:30:24 -0000 Hi, Noting that the draft (and hence the draft alias) has my email address = correct. No, I'm not aware of any IPR that applies to this draft. Thanks, Adrian -----Original Message----- From: Lou Berger =20 Sent: 12 May 2019 22:18 To: Kent Watsen ; adrian@olddog.co.uk; = bill.wu@huawei.com; afarrel@juniper.net Cc: NetMod WG Chairs ; NetMod WG = Subject: Regarding IPR on draft-ietf-netmod-artwork-folding-02 Authors, Contributors, WG, As part of WG Last Call Are you aware of any IPR that applies to drafts identified above? Please state either: "No, I'm not aware of any IPR that applies to this draft" or "Yes, I'm aware of IPR that applies to this draft" If so, has this IPR been disclosed in compliance with IETF IPR rules (see RFCs 3669, 5378 and 8179 for more details)? If yes to the above, please state either: "Yes, the IPR has been disclosed in compliance with IETF IPR rules" or "No, the IPR has not been disclosed" If you answer no, please provide any additional details you think appropriate. If you are listed as a document author or contributor please answer the above by responding to this email regardless of whether or not you are aware of any relevant IPR. This document will not advance to the next stage until a response has been received from each author and listed contributor. NOTE: THIS APPLIES TO ALL OF YOU LISTED IN THIS MESSAGE'S TO LINES. If you are on the WG email list or attend WG meetings but are not listed as an author or contributor, we remind you of your obligations under the IETF IPR rules which encourages you to notify the IETF if you are aware of IPR of others on an IETF contribution, or to refrain from participating in any contribution or discussion related to your undisclosed IPR. For more information, please see the RFCs listed above and http://trac.tools.ietf.org/group/iesg/trac/wiki/IntellectualProperty. Thank you, NetMod WG Chairs PS Please include all listed in the headers of this message in your response. From nobody Sun May 12 14:41:47 2019 Return-Path: X-Original-To: netmod@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: netmod@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9DEF412019D; Sun, 12 May 2019 14:41:45 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.599 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.599 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW=-0.7, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 0UicPg75JOy2; Sun, 12 May 2019 14:41:43 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mta6.iomartmail.com (mta6.iomartmail.com [62.128.193.156]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 7D165120173; Sun, 12 May 2019 14:41:42 -0700 (PDT) Received: from vs3.iomartmail.com (vs3.iomartmail.com [10.12.10.124]) by mta6.iomartmail.com (8.14.4/8.14.4) with ESMTP id x4CLffch020276; Sun, 12 May 2019 22:41:41 +0100 Received: from vs3.iomartmail.com (unknown [127.0.0.1]) by IMSVA (Postfix) with ESMTP id C46EB2203A; Sun, 12 May 2019 22:41:40 +0100 (BST) Received: from asmtp1.iomartmail.com (unknown [10.12.10.248]) by vs3.iomartmail.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id AF90822032; Sun, 12 May 2019 22:41:40 +0100 (BST) Received: from LAPTOPK7AS653V (4.196.bbplus.pte-ag1.dyn.plus.net [81.174.196.4] (may be forged)) (authenticated bits=0) by asmtp1.iomartmail.com (8.14.4/8.14.4) with ESMTP id x4CLfdwM031104 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 bits=256 verify=NO); Sun, 12 May 2019 22:41:40 +0100 Reply-To: From: "Adrian Farrel" To: "'Lou Berger'" , "'NetMod WG'" Cc: "'NetMod WG Chairs'" References: In-Reply-To: Date: Sun, 12 May 2019 22:41:39 +0100 Organization: Old Dog Consulting Message-ID: <009301d5090b$7bd95ab0$738c1010$@olddog.co.uk> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook 16.0 Thread-Index: AQI92vgELy7hkafOr9a7V0966haG5KWWXvKQ Content-Language: en-gb X-Originating-IP: 81.174.196.4 X-Thinkmail-Auth: adrian@olddog.co.uk X-TM-AS-GCONF: 00 X-TM-AS-Product-Ver: IMSVA-9.0.0.1623-8.2.0.1013-24610.002 X-TM-AS-Result: No--8.538-10.0-31-10 X-imss-scan-details: No--8.538-10.0-31-10 X-TMASE-Version: IMSVA-9.0.0.1623-8.2.1013-24610.002 X-TMASE-Result: 10--8.538400-10.000000 X-TMASE-MatchedRID: hls5oAVArl9fsB4HYR80ZnFPUrVDm6jtEtdrY/Wb3fOabNoYojBQdhn6 1/JmBe6HqOyY/u7ajs3d4VjvtZC1+l2kuSHmn3uDF0vYDRID+co026H7nOZLr8A5YKm8dwM6ZJK RlY/MqloUDvrYtrNj72RGMonhZxK8zCsOCBxDp3UXrP0cYcrA291UTzC0dgdFROSPFoR0c3yU62 zvc1Dlo3xcUE1HkchRHrZazVLXn07Ubyut0lXeoPv+//lqU1h6snx5eF6NfYhPkajTRZCnxu8ke 9FM2hzh9RMMteM9sxseYZj+jjPzyU1+zyfzlN7y/sToY2qzpx4rN8z0HohG3voLR4+zsDTtFAQv QYa7pINRGqbqBFW+/Jf4eMbEbQ4jVeILJGZqzhZG9dA8qdhhdw== X-TMASE-SNAP-Result: 1.821001.0001-0-1-12:0,22:0,33:0,34:0-0 Archived-At: Subject: Re: [netmod] WG Last Call: draft-ietf-netmod-artwork-folding-02 X-BeenThere: netmod@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: NETMOD WG list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sun, 12 May 2019 21:41:46 -0000 Thanks Lou, [speaking as an author] This draft represents the coming together of two different approaches to the same problem. The authors worked hard to merge and reach consensus, and the current revision contains the product. This document certainly addresses my personal requirement which is to provide a common human-readable notation for use in XML examples in drafts and RFCs so that artificial line-wraps can be disambiguated. And so I support its publication. Best, Adrian -----Original Message----- From: netmod On Behalf Of Lou Berger Sent: 12 May 2019 22:20 To: NetMod WG Cc: NetMod WG Chairs Subject: [netmod] WG Last Call: draft-ietf-netmod-artwork-folding-02 All, This starts a two-week working group last call for draft-ietf-netmod-artwork-folding-02 The working group last call ends on May 27. Please send your comments to the working group mailing list. Positive comments, e.g., "I've reviewed this document and believe it is ready for publication", are welcome! This is useful and important, even from authors. Thank you, NetMod Chairs _______________________________________________ netmod mailing list netmod@ietf.org https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/netmod From nobody Sun May 12 15:40:19 2019 Return-Path: X-Original-To: netmod@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: netmod@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 98BB5120156; Sun, 12 May 2019 15:40:17 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.999 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.999 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=gmail.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id FponjnBlSU6c; Sun, 12 May 2019 15:40:15 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail-pf1-x42f.google.com (mail-pf1-x42f.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:4864:20::42f]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 3879C12013E; Sun, 12 May 2019 15:40:15 -0700 (PDT) Received: by mail-pf1-x42f.google.com with SMTP id v80so6118065pfa.3; Sun, 12 May 2019 15:40:15 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20161025; h=mime-version:subject:from:in-reply-to:date:cc :content-transfer-encoding:message-id:references:to; bh=J7rkIcmYE4+4y+VdhxbX3dpBNcPpLA+J+I7GvMq14mA=; b=H3iBzpZn0cVJNBc/jMmYc/hfi29AG9n4hFeKXYqyuFISCts/OsWG1XaGHqDCrtZi5L z3vmOgTSMpu96GAm4h+A43FzMjnraqlmwhmgx2WGo8DEwSpIwUaGq3/6gLuEQHsEYQ7D bX6tbzJqruXDMfYTi4amtnzpgEYypRIWUqt3BMz2PNBMi9PnLSpQXXEIRCGE/MVrz851 8WsJqKGntShYYCfOShLINT0KKx8iA9E2gVevJvSJBfqvNAH5pSyXofMjnus46wpHu7G7 +m7IdKYP89uViRcQSQLDdQ2Zz5P8mRLrRosrZW/85BRljeiqIRv9PQ93MTdB2dUA3+aG ghOA== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:subject:from:in-reply-to:date:cc :content-transfer-encoding:message-id:references:to; bh=J7rkIcmYE4+4y+VdhxbX3dpBNcPpLA+J+I7GvMq14mA=; b=S3dyD2U3cUN4Mma8Lb2WIkb3BVK+ZL0656s0z2kP9KrhXcIksSLK2xDdEOOVl+r7A7 RojWBQBzw5x+RWNGWPL1PnNz4oL5SI2O+V9uomzDTdEw4Y4GMbJGoscToJ/tF6KuFEPC txbggBngAtMDv55x2+VPoUqPDIGC88q9poVy3hjvGfuUsEHREw1mxT+dvYkFnM3tRYq8 Gayh0xs9YsHqgKd/krM2Q+53/IO0kkBpj4jstkapUjyogH/plU6yg96jCZY7pTfCdtOj 12zn7Rkt0aCVv8vNZDJTsHkXbY5utaJRY0wAvnEJtGmy2E5eF53I3wrTkyC4YQYIw5Hn uL3g== X-Gm-Message-State: APjAAAXMStw7djHu0oHV033iXlEI0d29dSjWe72bM0hrUROzXcE1uTHV 1fx7dWV5jC5cqXIdi/s5uSxwajWH X-Google-Smtp-Source: APXvYqwotgKgOR42e1jK/OoBYLuTojltjKvR8mO64E4RpjH3X/ZccSKxNWXvCWVtU4bsZhOu+VVjrg== X-Received: by 2002:a62:30c2:: with SMTP id w185mr29543077pfw.175.1557700814424; Sun, 12 May 2019 15:40:14 -0700 (PDT) Received: from [192.168.1.5] (c-73-189-13-44.hsd1.ca.comcast.net. [73.189.13.44]) by smtp.gmail.com with ESMTPSA id f4sm538418pfn.118.2019.05.12.15.40.13 (version=TLS1_2 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 bits=128/128); Sun, 12 May 2019 15:40:13 -0700 (PDT) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Mime-Version: 1.0 (1.0) From: Jeff Tantsura X-Mailer: iPhone Mail (16E227) In-Reply-To: Date: Sun, 12 May 2019 15:40:13 -0700 Cc: NetMod WG , NetMod WG Chairs Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Message-Id: References: To: Lou Berger Archived-At: Subject: Re: [netmod] WG Last Call: draft-ietf-netmod-artwork-folding-02 X-BeenThere: netmod@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: NETMOD WG list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sun, 12 May 2019 22:40:18 -0000 Lou, I support the progress of the draft and it is ready for the publication. Regards, Jeff > On May 12, 2019, at 14:19, Lou Berger wrote: > > > All, > > This starts a two-week working group last call for > draft-ietf-netmod-artwork-folding-02 > > The working group last call ends on May 27. > Please send your comments to the working group mailing list. > > Positive comments, e.g., "I've reviewed this document > and believe it is ready for publication", are welcome! > This is useful and important, even from authors. > > Thank you, > NetMod Chairs > > > > _______________________________________________ > netmod mailing list > netmod@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/netmod From nobody Sun May 12 17:55:25 2019 Return-Path: <0100016aaeafd64c-15be6043-bde9-49a8-980a-0ca0f27a1447-000000@amazonses.watsen.net> X-Original-To: netmod@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: netmod@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 20A6A120041; Sun, 12 May 2019 17:55:24 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.9 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.9 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (1024-bit key) header.d=amazonses.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id kLnsH6wOrDgg; Sun, 12 May 2019 17:55:22 -0700 (PDT) Received: from a8-33.smtp-out.amazonses.com (a8-33.smtp-out.amazonses.com [54.240.8.33]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id BDF6B120033; Sun, 12 May 2019 17:55:21 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; q=dns/txt; c=relaxed/simple; s=6gbrjpgwjskckoa6a5zn6fwqkn67xbtw; d=amazonses.com; t=1557708920; h=Content-Type:Mime-Version:Subject:From:In-Reply-To:Date:Cc:Content-Transfer-Encoding:Message-Id:References:To:Feedback-ID; bh=QPPGqVnt4vNp8Niw95Nql07/FEq5yVcaNjbVUerZ/C0=; b=V1gZaT2Hlth/uNl2j40WU9haBafYneaCQLtJTha+y9PnukSjfzXSqR5RHmhAH77t ZoFmTjWwoPrBic7qRGTZzW7n+vByBFVEJjTYLkpotUGC0S+2ckZR84CtYtC9BG2uh8M JGxbCiKiXahvQscrCnV4d1HnWvJxEPnQnbiWcl6Q= Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Mime-Version: 1.0 (1.0) From: Kent Watsen X-Mailer: iPhone Mail (16E227) In-Reply-To: Date: Mon, 13 May 2019 00:55:20 +0000 Cc: "adrian@olddog.co.uk" , bill.wu@huawei.com, afarrel@juniper.net, NetMod WG Chairs , NetMod WG Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Message-ID: <0100016aaeafd64c-15be6043-bde9-49a8-980a-0ca0f27a1447-000000@email.amazonses.com> References: To: Lou Berger X-SES-Outgoing: 2019.05.13-54.240.8.33 Feedback-ID: 1.us-east-1.DKmIRZFhhsBhtmFMNikgwZUWVrODEw9qVcPhqJEI2DA=:AmazonSES Archived-At: Subject: Re: [netmod] Regarding IPR on draft-ietf-netmod-artwork-folding-02 X-BeenThere: netmod@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: NETMOD WG list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 13 May 2019 00:55:24 -0000 No, I=E2=80=99m not aware of any IPR that applies to this draft.=20 Kent=20 > On May 12, 2019, at 5:17 PM, Lou Berger wrote: >=20 > Authors, Contributors, WG, >=20 > As part of WG Last Call >=20 > Are you aware of any IPR that applies to drafts identified above? >=20 > Please state either: >=20 > "No, I'm not aware of any IPR that applies to this draft" > or > "Yes, I'm aware of IPR that applies to this draft" >=20 > If so, has this IPR been disclosed in compliance with IETF IPR rules > (see RFCs 3669, 5378 and 8179 for more details)? >=20 > If yes to the above, please state either: >=20 > "Yes, the IPR has been disclosed in compliance with IETF IPR rules" > or > "No, the IPR has not been disclosed" >=20 > If you answer no, please provide any additional details you think > appropriate. >=20 > If you are listed as a document author or contributor please answer the > above by responding to this email regardless of whether or not you are > aware of any relevant IPR. This document will not advance to the next > stage until a response has been received from each author and listed > contributor. NOTE: THIS APPLIES TO ALL OF YOU LISTED IN THIS MESSAGE'S > TO LINES. >=20 > If you are on the WG email list or attend WG meetings but are not listed > as an author or contributor, we remind you of your obligations under > the IETF IPR rules which encourages you to notify the IETF if you are > aware of IPR of others on an IETF contribution, or to refrain from > participating in any contribution or discussion related to your > undisclosed IPR. For more information, please see the RFCs listed above > and > http://trac.tools.ietf.org/group/iesg/trac/wiki/IntellectualProperty. >=20 > Thank you, > NetMod WG Chairs >=20 > PS Please include all listed in the headers of this message in your > response. >=20 >=20 >=20 >=20 From nobody Sun May 12 18:14:47 2019 Return-Path: X-Original-To: netmod@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: netmod@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5E90F1200C5; Sun, 12 May 2019 18:14:46 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -4.201 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-4.201 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-2.3, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id GzNFieh_0m-Z; Sun, 12 May 2019 18:14:44 -0700 (PDT) Received: from huawei.com (lhrrgout.huawei.com [185.176.76.210]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 75F241200CC; Sun, 12 May 2019 18:14:44 -0700 (PDT) Received: from lhreml704-cah.china.huawei.com (unknown [172.18.7.106]) by Forcepoint Email with ESMTP id 5FFD9D0F80B67069E8B7; Mon, 13 May 2019 02:14:42 +0100 (IST) Received: from NKGEML413-HUB.china.huawei.com (10.98.56.74) by lhreml704-cah.china.huawei.com (10.201.108.45) with Microsoft SMTP Server (TLS) id 14.3.408.0; Mon, 13 May 2019 02:14:42 +0100 Received: from NKGEML513-MBX.china.huawei.com ([169.254.1.144]) by NKGEML413-HUB.china.huawei.com ([10.98.56.74]) with mapi id 14.03.0415.000; Mon, 13 May 2019 09:14:29 +0800 From: Qin Wu To: Kent Watsen , Lou Berger CC: "adrian@olddog.co.uk" , "afarrel@juniper.net" , NetMod WG Chairs , NetMod WG Thread-Topic: Regarding IPR on draft-ietf-netmod-artwork-folding-02 Thread-Index: AdUJKSkoJ0I/XvmBQRyfaY9eQKOzQQ== Date: Mon, 13 May 2019 01:14:28 +0000 Message-ID: Accept-Language: zh-CN, en-US Content-Language: zh-CN X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-originating-ip: [10.134.31.203] Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-CFilter-Loop: Reflected Archived-At: Subject: Re: [netmod] Regarding IPR on draft-ietf-netmod-artwork-folding-02 X-BeenThere: netmod@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: NETMOD WG list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 13 May 2019 01:14:46 -0000 Tm8sIEkgYW0gbm90IGF3YXJlIG9mIGFueSBJUFIgcmVsYXRlZCB0byB0aGlzIGRyYWZ0Lg0KDQpR aW4NCi0tLS0t6YKu5Lu25Y6f5Lu2LS0tLS0NCuWPkeS7tuS6ujogS2VudCBXYXRzZW4gW21haWx0 bzprZW50K2lldGZAd2F0c2VuLm5ldF0gDQrlj5HpgIHml7bpl7Q6IDIwMTnlubQ15pyIMTPml6Ug ODo1NQ0K5pS25Lu25Lq6OiBMb3UgQmVyZ2VyIDxsYmVyZ2VyQGxhYm4ubmV0Pg0K5oqE6YCBOiBh 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by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 555D812016A; Sun, 12 May 2019 20:02:56 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -4.201 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-4.201 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-2.3, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 2pTnMG9UaFhu; Sun, 12 May 2019 20:02:54 -0700 (PDT) Received: from huawei.com (lhrrgout.huawei.com [185.176.76.210]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 77BA7120049; Sun, 12 May 2019 20:02:54 -0700 (PDT) Received: from lhreml703-cah.china.huawei.com (unknown [172.18.7.108]) by Forcepoint Email with ESMTP id AE957F1899310FDFDCFD; Mon, 13 May 2019 04:02:52 +0100 (IST) Received: from NKGEML413-HUB.china.huawei.com (10.98.56.74) by lhreml703-cah.china.huawei.com (10.201.108.44) with Microsoft SMTP Server (TLS) id 14.3.408.0; Mon, 13 May 2019 04:02:52 +0100 Received: from NKGEML513-MBX.china.huawei.com ([169.254.1.144]) by NKGEML413-HUB.china.huawei.com ([10.98.56.74]) with mapi id 14.03.0415.000; Mon, 13 May 2019 11:02:49 +0800 From: Qin Wu To: Lou Berger CC: NetMod WG Chairs , NetMod WG Thread-Topic: [netmod] WG Last Call: draft-ietf-netmod-artwork-folding-02 Thread-Index: AdUJN77yFfDTKXTmQ9qCLgdKdYlhXw== Date: Mon, 13 May 2019 03:02:48 +0000 Message-ID: Accept-Language: zh-CN, en-US Content-Language: zh-CN X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-originating-ip: [10.134.31.203] Content-Type: text/plain; charset="gb2312" Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-CFilter-Loop: Reflected Archived-At: Subject: Re: [netmod] WG Last Call: draft-ietf-netmod-artwork-folding-02 X-BeenThere: netmod@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: NETMOD WG list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 13 May 2019 03:02:56 -0000 U3VwcG9ydCBhcyBjb2F1dGhvciAgYW5kIGl0IGlzIHJlYWR5IGZvciBwdWJsaWNhdGlvbi4NCg0K LVFpbg0KLS0tLS3Tyrz+1K28/i0tLS0tDQq3orz+yMs6IG5ldG1vZCBbbWFpbHRvOm5ldG1vZC1i b3VuY2VzQGlldGYub3JnXSC0+rHtIEplZmYgVGFudHN1cmENCreiy83KsbzkOiAyMDE5xOo11MIx M8jVIDY6NDANCsrVvP7IyzogTG91IEJlcmdlciA8bGJlcmdlckBsYWJuLm5ldD4NCrOty806IE5l dE1vZCBXRyBDaGFpcnMgPG5ldG1vZC1jaGFpcnNAaWV0Zi5vcmc+OyBOZXRNb2QgV0cgPG5ldG1v ZEBpZXRmLm9yZz4NCtb3zOI6IFJlOiBbbmV0bW9kXSBXRyBMYXN0IENhbGw6IGRyYWZ0LWlldGYt bmV0bW9kLWFydHdvcmstZm9sZGluZy0wMg0KDQpMb3UsDQoNCkkgc3VwcG9ydCB0aGUgcHJvZ3Jl c3Mgb2YgdGhlIGRyYWZ0IGFuZCBpdCBpcyByZWFkeSBmb3IgdGhlIHB1YmxpY2F0aW9uLg0KDQpS ZWdhcmRzLA0KSmVmZg0KDQo+IE9uIE1heSAxMiwgMjAxOSwgYXQgMTQ6MTksIExvdSBCZXJnZXIg PGxiZXJnZXJAbGFibi5uZXQ+IHdyb3RlOg0KPiANCj4gDQo+IEFsbCwNCj4gDQo+IFRoaXMgc3Rh cnRzIGEgdHdvLXdlZWsgd29ya2luZyBncm91cCBsYXN0IGNhbGwgZm9yDQo+IGRyYWZ0LWlldGYt 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Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (1024-bit key) header.d=amazonses.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id acGcDZbSlTvk for ; Thu, 16 May 2019 08:42:20 -0700 (PDT) Received: from a8-88.smtp-out.amazonses.com (a8-88.smtp-out.amazonses.com [54.240.8.88]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id D5D93120240 for ; Thu, 16 May 2019 08:42:19 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; q=dns/txt; c=relaxed/simple; s=6gbrjpgwjskckoa6a5zn6fwqkn67xbtw; d=amazonses.com; t=1558021338; h=From:Content-Type:Mime-Version:Subject:Date:References:To:In-Reply-To:Message-Id:Feedback-ID; bh=2cckyvvkEBIBVLyEPYQyB9O88QlwdBKV9OfXfkchreI=; b=Hk/9zvBmFx45wwnEeVb2+44NwmL6IY2yeuTFc3suB1c9BbEDeae+opYtpHP+fGSO V2/8IsaEhFFzbd9vUonGkMhAGRfim+sIn1GuDIu1nn+38EGljWZYMtx3aN1nOqYEFXd 2zYpbi20yNEXoStcTrVPgci9HmF8tWnFak21laao= From: Kent Watsen Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="Apple-Mail=_ED1411A3-4CE3-48E8-934D-B26366DC7096" Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 12.2 \(3445.102.3\)) Date: Thu, 16 May 2019 15:42:18 +0000 References: <0100016a996e6b55-6274d956-7a6e-4d56-b88b-524723053cdb-000000@email.amazonses.com> To: "netmod@ietf.org" In-Reply-To: <0100016a996e6b55-6274d956-7a6e-4d56-b88b-524723053cdb-000000@email.amazonses.com> Message-ID: <0100016ac14ef537-e835ef2c-df5a-453a-bf82-0ebbdd8dee28-000000@email.amazonses.com> X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.3445.102.3) X-SES-Outgoing: 2019.05.16-54.240.8.88 Feedback-ID: 1.us-east-1.DKmIRZFhhsBhtmFMNikgwZUWVrODEw9qVcPhqJEI2DA=:AmazonSES Archived-At: Subject: Re: [netmod] Adoption poll for draft-wu-netmod-factory-default-03 X-BeenThere: netmod@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: NETMOD WG list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 16 May 2019 15:42:22 -0000 --Apple-Mail=_ED1411A3-4CE3-48E8-934D-B26366DC7096 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii This message concludes the adoption poll for = draft-wu-netmod-factory-default-03. Thank you to all those that = expressed support. As no objections were raised, this draft is no = adopted as a WG document. Authors, please post a "ietf" -00 version of the draft being the same as = the -02 I-D (that which was adopted), and then post a -01 follow-up = addressing the comments received. Thank you, Kent (and Lou and Joel) > On May 8, 2019, at 5:51 PM, Kent Watsen wrote: >=20 > This email begins a 1-week adoption poll for: >=20 > https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-wu-netmod-factory-default-03 = >=20 > As we already have consensus from the previous poll to work on the = problem, this poll primarily seeks for objections for using -03 as a = basis for WG adoption (the document will be adopted if no objections are = raised). Of course, a show of support is also always encouraged. All, = please voice your support or objections before May 15. =20 >=20 > Authors, already there have been good comments for how to improve the = document. However, please refrain from posting an update incorporating = these comments until after this adoption poll closes, at which time the = instruction will be to post a -00 with minimal changes, followed by a = -01 incorporating the comments. >=20 > PS: the IPR poll conducted on Mar 25 is still considered valid. >=20 > Kent // co-chair >=20 >=20 > _______________________________________________ > netmod mailing list > netmod@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/netmod --Apple-Mail=_ED1411A3-4CE3-48E8-934D-B26366DC7096 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/html; charset=us-ascii
This message = concludes the adoption poll for draft-wu-netmod-factory-default-03. =   Thank you to all those that expressed support.  As no = objections were raised, this draft is no adopted as a WG = document.

Authors, please post a "ietf" = -00 version of the draft being the same as the -02 I-D (that which was = adopted), and then post a -01 follow-up addressing the comments = received.

Thank you,
Kent = (and Lou and Joel)



On May = 8, 2019, at 5:51 PM, Kent Watsen <kent+ietf@watsen.net> wrote:

This email begins a = 1-week adoption poll for:

  =   https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-wu-netmod-factory-default-03<= /a>

As we already = have consensus from the previous poll to work on the problem, this = poll primarily seeks for objections for using -03 as a basis for WG = adoption (the document will be adopted if no objections are raised).  Of course, a show of support = is also always encouraged.   All, please voice your support or = objections before May 15.   

Authors, already there have been good comments for how to = improve the document.  However, please refrain from posting an = update incorporating these comments until after this adoption = poll closes, at which time the instruction will be to post a -00 with = minimal changes, followed by a -01 incorporating the = comments.

PS: the IPR poll conducted on Mar 25 = is still considered valid.

Kent  // = co-chair


______________________________________= _________
netmod mailing list
netmod@ietf.org
https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/netmod

= --Apple-Mail=_ED1411A3-4CE3-48E8-934D-B26366DC7096-- From nobody Thu May 16 08:45:40 2019 Return-Path: X-Original-To: netmod@ietf.org Delivered-To: netmod@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from ietfa.amsl.com (localhost [IPv6:::1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 31741120074; Thu, 16 May 2019 08:45:38 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: internet-drafts@ietf.org To: Cc: netmod@ietf.org X-Test-IDTracker: no X-IETF-IDTracker: 6.96.0 Auto-Submitted: auto-generated Precedence: bulk Reply-To: netmod@ietf.org Message-ID: <155802153810.19776.14913168979341880181@ietfa.amsl.com> Date: Thu, 16 May 2019 08:45:38 -0700 Archived-At: Subject: [netmod] I-D Action: draft-ietf-netmod-factory-default-00.txt X-BeenThere: netmod@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 List-Id: NETMOD WG list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 16 May 2019 15:45:38 -0000 A New Internet-Draft is available from the on-line Internet-Drafts directories. This draft is a work item of the Network Modeling WG of the IETF. Title : Factory default Setting Authors : Qin Wu Balazs Lengyel Ye Niu Filename : draft-ietf-netmod-factory-default-00.txt Pages : 10 Date : 2019-05-16 Abstract: This document defines a method to reset a YANG server to its factory- default content. The reset operation may be used e.g. during initial zero-touch configuration or when the existing configuration has major errors, so re-starting the configuration process from scratch is the best option. A new factory-reset RPC is defined. Several methods of documenting the factory-default content are specified. Optionally a new "factory-default" read-only datastore is defined, that contains the data that will be copied over to the running datastore at reset. The IETF datatracker status page for this draft is: https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-netmod-factory-default/ There are also htmlized versions available at: https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-netmod-factory-default-00 https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/html/draft-ietf-netmod-factory-default-00 Please note that it may take a couple of minutes from the time of submission until the htmlized version and diff are available at tools.ietf.org. Internet-Drafts are also available by anonymous FTP at: ftp://ftp.ietf.org/internet-drafts/ From nobody Thu May 16 22:05:36 2019 Return-Path: X-Original-To: netmod@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: netmod@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id D521A1200F4 for ; Thu, 16 May 2019 22:05:34 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.89 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.89 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, T_KAM_HTML_FONT_INVALID=0.01] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id Wcv5QRJ6-48o for ; Thu, 16 May 2019 22:05:31 -0700 (PDT) Received: from chinatelecom.cn (prt-mail.chinatelecom.cn [42.123.76.223]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id CD38D120041 for ; Thu, 16 May 2019 22:05:29 -0700 (PDT) HMM_SOURCE_IP: 172.18.0.92:1170.881144876 HMM_ATTACHE_NUM: 0000 HMM_SOURCE_TYPE: SMTP Received: from clientip-219.142.69.78 (unknown [172.18.0.92]) by chinatelecom.cn (HERMES) with SMTP id E0D1B28008E for ; Fri, 17 May 2019 13:05:24 +0800 (CST) X-189-SAVE-TO-SEND: xiechf.bri@chinatelecom.cn Received: from EHLO ip<219.142.69.78> ([172.18.0.92]) by App0021 with ESMTP id 85aa2513-a4ed-44c7-9d11-92732e567bac for netmod@ietf.org; Fri May 17 13:05:24 2019 X-filter-score: filter<0> X-Real-From: xiechf.bri@chinatelecom.cn X-Receive-IP: 172.18.0.92 X-MEDUSA-Status: 0 Date: Fri, 17 May 2019 13:05:23 +0800 From: "Chongfeng Xie" To: netmod X-Priority: 3 X-Has-Attach: no X-Mailer: Foxmail 7, 2, 8, 379[cn] Mime-Version: 1.0 Message-ID: <2019051419342276839822@chinatelecom.cn> Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_001_NextPart162788057837_=----" Archived-At: Subject: Re: [netmod] Adoption poll for draft-wu-netmod-factory-default-03 X-BeenThere: netmod@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: NETMOD WG list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 17 May 2019 05:05:35 -0000 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_001_NextPart162788057837_=---- Content-Type: text/plain; charset="GB2312" Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 DQpJIGhhdmUgcmVhZCB0aGUgbGF0ZXN0IHZlcnNpb24gb2YgZHJhZnQtd3UgYW5kIGJlbGlldmUg dGhlIG1lY2hhbmlzbSBwcm9wb3NlZCBpbiB0aGlzIGRyYWZ0IGluIHZlcnkgdXNlZnVsIGluIFNE V0FOIFpUUCBzY2VuYXJpbywgSSBmdWxseSBzdXBwb3J0IHRvIHN0YW5kYXJkaXplIHRoaXMgd29y ay4NCkNob25nZmVuZyANCg0KDQogDQq3orz+yMs6IG5ldG1vZCBbbWFpbHRvOm5ldG1vZC1ib3Vu Y2VzQGlldGYub3JnXSC0+rHtIEtlbnQgV2F0c2VuDQq3osvNyrG85DogMjAxOcTqNdTCOcjVIDU6 NTINCsrVvP7IyzogbmV0bW9kQGlldGYub3JnDQrW98ziOiBbbmV0bW9kXSBBZG9wdGlvbiBwb2xs IGZvciBkcmFmdC13dS1uZXRtb2QtZmFjdG9yeS1kZWZhdWx0LTAzDQogDQpUaGlzIGVtYWlsIGJl Z2lucyBhIDEtd2VlayBhZG9wdGlvbiBwb2xsIGZvcjoNCiANCiAgICBodHRwczovL3Rvb2xzLmll dGYub3JnL2h0bWwvZHJhZnQtd3UtbmV0bW9kLWZhY3RvcnktZGVmYXVsdC0wMw0KQXMgd2UgYWxy ZWFkeSBoYXZlIGNvbnNlbnN1cyBmcm9tIHRoZSBwcmV2aW91cyBwb2xsIHRvIHdvcmsgb24gdGhl IHByb2JsZW0sIHRoaXMgcG9sbCBwcmltYXJpbHkgc2Vla3MgZm9yIG9iamVjdGlvbnMgZm9yIHVz aW5nIC0wMyBhcyBhIGJhc2lzIGZvciBXRyBhZG9wdGlvbiAodGhlIGRvY3VtZW50IHdpbGwgYmUg YWRvcHRlZCBpZiBubyBvYmplY3Rpb25zIGFyZSByYWlzZWQpLiAgT2YgY291cnNlLCBhIHNob3cg b2Ygc3VwcG9ydCBpcyBhbHNvIGFsd2F5cyBlbmNvdXJhZ2VkLiAgIEFsbCwgcGxlYXNlIHZvaWNl IHlvdXIgc3VwcG9ydCBvciBvYmplY3Rpb25zIGJlZm9yZSBNYXkgMTUuICAgDQogDQpBdXRob3Jz LCBhbHJlYWR5IHRoZXJlIGhhdmUgYmVlbiBnb29kIGNvbW1lbnRzIGZvciBob3cgdG8gaW1wcm92 ZSB0aGUgZG9jdW1lbnQuICBIb3dldmVyLCBwbGVhc2UgcmVmcmFpbiBmcm9tIHBvc3RpbmcgYW4g dXBkYXRlIGluY29ycG9yYXRpbmcgdGhlc2UgY29tbWVudHMgdW50aWwgYWZ0ZXIgdGhpcyBhZG9w dGlvbiBwb2xsIGNsb3NlcywgYXQgd2hpY2ggdGltZSB0aGUgaW5zdHJ1Y3Rpb24gd2lsbCBiZSB0 byBwb3N0IGEgLTAwIHdpdGggbWluaW1hbCBjaGFuZ2VzLCBmb2xsb3dlZCBieSBhIC0wMSBpbmNv cnBvcmF0aW5nIHRoZSBjb21tZW50cy4NCiANClBTOiB0aGUgSVBSIHBvbGwgY29uZHVjdGVkIG9u IE1hciAyNSBpcyBzdGlsbCBjb25zaWRlcmVkIHZhbGlkLg0KDQpLZW50ICAvLyBjby1jaGFpcg0K IA0KIA0K ------=_001_NextPart162788057837_=---- Content-Type: text/html; charset="GB2312" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable =0A=0A

I have&nbs= p;read the latest version of draft-wu and&nb= sp;believe the mechanism proposed in this dr= aft in very useful in SDWAN ZTP scenari= o, I fully support to standardize this = work.
Chongfe= ng 
=0A


=0A

 

=0A
=0A
=0A

=B7=A2=BC=FE=C8=CB: netmod [mailto:= netmod-bounces@ietf.org]=0A=B4=FA=B1=ED =0AKent Watsen
=0A=B7=A2=CB=CD=CA=B1=BC=E4: 2019=C4= =EA5=D4=C29=C8=D5<= span lang=3D"EN-US">=0A 5:52
=0A=CA=D5=BC=FE=C8=CB: netmod@ietf.org
=0A= =D6=F7=CC=E2: [net= mod] Adoption poll for draft-wu-netmod-factory-default-03

=0A
=0A
=0A

 

=0A
=0A

This email begins a 1-week adoption poll for:

=0A
=0A
=0A

    https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-wu-netmod-= factory-default-03

= =0A
=0A

As we already have = ;consensus from the previous poll to work on the problem, this poll p= rimarily seeks for objections for using -03 as a basis for WG adoption (th= e document will=0A be adopted if no objections are raised).  Of = course, a show of support is also always encouraged.   All, please vo= ice your support or objections before May 15.   

=0A
=0A

 

=0A
=0A=
=0A

Authors, already there have bee= n good comments for how to improve the document.  However, please ref= rain from posting an update incorporating these comments until a= fter this=0A adoption poll closes, at which time the instruction will be t= o post a -00 with minimal changes, followed by a -01 incorporating th= e comments.

=0A
=0A<= div>=0A

 

=0A
=0A
=0A

PS: t= he IPR poll conducted on Mar 25 is still considered valid.

=0A
=0A
=0A


=0AKent  // co-chair

=0A
=0A
=0A

 

=0A
=0A
=0A

 

= =0A
=0A
=0A
=0A
=0A ------=_001_NextPart162788057837_=------ From nobody Fri May 17 03:49:04 2019 Return-Path: X-Original-To: netmod@ietf.org Delivered-To: netmod@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from ietfa.amsl.com (localhost [IPv6:::1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3D5DE120088; Fri, 17 May 2019 03:48:57 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: internet-drafts@ietf.org To: Cc: netmod@ietf.org X-Test-IDTracker: no X-IETF-IDTracker: 6.96.0 Auto-Submitted: auto-generated Precedence: bulk Reply-To: netmod@ietf.org Message-ID: <155809013716.14854.13875111014961840796@ietfa.amsl.com> Date: Fri, 17 May 2019 03:48:57 -0700 Archived-At: Subject: [netmod] I-D Action: draft-ietf-netmod-factory-default-01.txt X-BeenThere: netmod@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 List-Id: NETMOD WG list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 17 May 2019 10:48:57 -0000 A New Internet-Draft is available from the on-line Internet-Drafts directories. This draft is a work item of the Network Modeling WG of the IETF. Title : Factory Default Setting Authors : Qin Wu Balazs Lengyel Ye Niu Filename : draft-ietf-netmod-factory-default-01.txt Pages : 11 Date : 2019-05-17 Abstract: This document defines a method to reset a server to its factory- default content. The reset operation may be used e.g. during initial zero-touch configuration or when the existing configuration has major errors, so re-starting the configuration process from scratch is the best option. A new factory-reset RPC is defined. Several methods of documenting the factory-default content are specified. Optionally a new "factory-default" read-only datastore is defined, that contains the data that will be copied over to the running datastore at reset. The IETF datatracker status page for this draft is: https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-netmod-factory-default/ There are also htmlized versions available at: https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-netmod-factory-default-01 https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/html/draft-ietf-netmod-factory-default-01 A diff from the previous version is available at: https://www.ietf.org/rfcdiff?url2=draft-ietf-netmod-factory-default-01 Please note that it may take a couple of minutes from the time of submission until the htmlized version and diff are available at tools.ietf.org. Internet-Drafts are also available by anonymous FTP at: ftp://ftp.ietf.org/internet-drafts/ From nobody Fri May 17 03:54:16 2019 Return-Path: X-Original-To: netmod@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: netmod@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6FBA0120247 for ; Fri, 17 May 2019 03:54:14 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -4.201 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-4.201 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-2.3, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id kQrzW5FvxWCW for ; Fri, 17 May 2019 03:54:12 -0700 (PDT) Received: from huawei.com (lhrrgout.huawei.com [185.176.76.210]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 36B45120088 for ; Fri, 17 May 2019 03:54:12 -0700 (PDT) Received: from LHREML713-CAH.china.huawei.com (unknown [172.18.7.106]) by Forcepoint Email with ESMTP id 1B7E12444C446B777CEA for ; Fri, 17 May 2019 11:54:10 +0100 (IST) Received: from NKGEML414-HUB.china.huawei.com (10.98.56.75) by LHREML713-CAH.china.huawei.com (10.201.108.36) with Microsoft SMTP Server (TLS) id 14.3.408.0; Fri, 17 May 2019 11:54:09 +0100 Received: from NKGEML513-MBX.china.huawei.com ([169.254.1.144]) by nkgeml414-hub.china.huawei.com ([10.98.56.75]) with mapi id 14.03.0415.000; Fri, 17 May 2019 18:54:06 +0800 From: Qin Wu To: "netmod@ietf.org" Thread-Topic: I-D Action: draft-ietf-netmod-factory-default-01.txt Thread-Index: AdUMnk3yD7F0M/IFTUyxQbsB8V0yEQ== Date: Fri, 17 May 2019 10:54:05 +0000 Message-ID: Accept-Language: zh-CN, en-US Content-Language: zh-CN X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-originating-ip: [10.134.31.203] Content-Type: text/plain; charset="gb2312" Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-CFilter-Loop: Reflected Archived-At: Subject: Re: [netmod] I-D Action: draft-ietf-netmod-factory-default-01.txt X-BeenThere: netmod@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: NETMOD WG list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 17 May 2019 10:54:15 -0000 di0wMSBpcyBwb3N0ZWQgdG8gYWRkcmVzcyBjb21tZW50cyB3ZSBoYXZlIGJlZW4gZGlzY3Vzc2Vk IGR1cmluZyB0aGUgc2Vjb25kIGFkb3B0aW9uIGNhbGwuDQpodHRwczovL2RhdGF0cmFja2VyLmll dGYub3JnL2RvYy9odG1sL2RyYWZ0LWlldGYtbmV0bW9kLWZhY3RvcnktZGVmYXVsdC0wMQ0KVGhl IG1haW4gY2hhbmdlcyBpbmNsdWRlOg0KMS5DaGFuZ2UgWUFORyBzZXJ2ZXIgaW50byBzZXJ2ZXIg ZGVmaW5lZCBpbiBOTURBIGFyY2hpdGVjdHVyZSBiYXNlZCBvbiBkaXNjdXNzaW9uLg0KMi5BbGxv dyByZXNldCB0aGUgY29udGVudCBvZiBhbGwgcmVhZC13cml0ZSBjb25maWd1cmF0aW9uIGRhdGFz dG9yZXMgdG8gaXRzIGZhY3RvcnktZGVmYXVsdCBjb250ZW50Lg0KMy5BZGQgY2xhcmlmaWNhdGlv biB0ZXh0IG9uIGZhY3RvcnktcmVzZXQgcHJvdG9jb2wgb3BlcmF0aW9uIGJlaGF2aW9yLg0KDQot 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IGZ0cDovL2Z0cC5pZXRmLm9yZy9pZXRmLzFzaGFkb3ctc2l0ZXMudHh0DQo= From nobody Fri May 17 04:15:05 2019 Return-Path: X-Original-To: netmod@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: netmod@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id CC0A612006F for ; Fri, 17 May 2019 04:15:03 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.9 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.9 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id lSP4yprKzkGt for ; Fri, 17 May 2019 04:15:01 -0700 (PDT) Received: from atlas5.jacobs-university.de (atlas5.jacobs-university.de [212.201.44.20]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher AECDH-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 48FCF120282 for ; Fri, 17 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+0200 (CEST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at jacobs-university.de Received: from hermes.jacobs-university.de ([212.201.44.23]) by localhost (demetrius5.jacobs-university.de [10.70.0.222]) (amavisd-new, port 10028) with ESMTP id Ic_yJsRPT0AP; Fri, 17 May 2019 13:14:58 +0200 (CEST) Received: from exchange.jacobs-university.de (SXCHMB02.jacobs.jacobs-university.de [10.70.0.121]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (Client CN "exchange.jacobs-university.de", Issuer "DFN-Verein Global Issuing CA" (verified OK)) by hermes.jacobs-university.de (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 3D38D2011B; Fri, 17 May 2019 13:14:59 +0200 (CEST) Received: from anna.localdomain (10.50.218.117) by sxchmb03.jacobs.jacobs-university.de (10.70.0.155) with Microsoft SMTP Server (version=TLS1_2, cipher=TLS_ECDHE_RSA_WITH_AES_256_GCM_SHA384) id 15.1.1713.5; Fri, 17 May 2019 13:14:58 +0200 Received: by anna.localdomain (Postfix, from userid 501) id 3B03C300924E98; Fri, 17 May 2019 13:14:57 +0200 (CEST) Date: Fri, 17 May 2019 13:14:57 +0200 From: Juergen Schoenwaelder To: Qin Wu CC: "netmod@ietf.org" Message-ID: <20190517111457.otxjxtit3a4gwz73@anna.jacobs.jacobs-university.de> Reply-To: Juergen Schoenwaelder Mail-Followup-To: Qin Wu , "netmod@ietf.org" References: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: User-Agent: NeoMutt/20180716 X-ClientProxiedBy: SXCHMB04.jacobs.jacobs-university.de (10.70.0.156) To sxchmb03.jacobs.jacobs-university.de (10.70.0.155) Archived-At: Subject: Re: [netmod] I-D Action: draft-ietf-netmod-factory-default-01.txt X-BeenThere: netmod@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: NETMOD WG list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 17 May 2019 11:15:04 -0000 I think this does not work: [...] For operation,it can be used to copy the factory default content to another datastore, however the content of the datastore is not propagated automatically to any other datastores. You can't change the way things work. If something is committed to lets say , then this triggers the propagation to and eventually . You can't come along and say that copy-config from a particular source stops this. Is it really useful to expose factory default to copy config? Or said differenlty, would it not make sense to fix copy-config (at some other place) so that it can generically work with new datastores? The content of the factory-default datastore is usually not security sensitive as it is the same on any device of a certain type. I am not sure this is true. For non-trivial devices, the default is likely not static but something that takes into account device features available and the specific hardware configuration present. It is actually somewhat unclear what the factory-default datastore contains; the stuff I can expect to see in after the reset or some static stuff that may be tweaked during the boot process to yield the initial . Or are we pretending these two are always the same? The copyright year needs adjustment. Indentation of the YANG statements should be fixed. /js -- Juergen Schoenwaelder Jacobs University Bremen gGmbH Phone: +49 421 200 3587 Campus Ring 1 | 28759 Bremen | Germany Fax: +49 421 200 3103 From nobody Fri May 17 10:37:34 2019 Return-Path: X-Original-To: netmod@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: netmod@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id B035812013E for ; Fri, 17 May 2019 10:37:32 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.9 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.9 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=yumaworks-com.20150623.gappssmtp.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id iwvHR2fkyIwR for ; Fri, 17 May 2019 10:37:30 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail-lf1-x12d.google.com (mail-lf1-x12d.google.com [IPv6:2a00:1450:4864:20::12d]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id A73C91200F3 for ; Fri, 17 May 2019 10:37:29 -0700 (PDT) Received: by mail-lf1-x12d.google.com with SMTP id q17so5918929lfo.4 for ; Fri, 17 May 2019 10:37:29 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=yumaworks-com.20150623.gappssmtp.com; s=20150623; h=mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date:message-id:subject:to; bh=vcY6be8PtnMngQ/MBRIX4SvxaARwJvNilYNLD3AVPA8=; b=twAwviN/L3aRDOgOvfOPvQF75I2F8KZ5YgQz/DHGbalbMNr3qCxwEZHk/4gOD0N/XE BhWJDogtfOWH+WmkJgVWzcMTYpCfeN/uJkhV6pCSQVlY2oW2bHA8XNg+pxfeH7y0nFS/ 7syXLZ7KOyLgv2m186a4pX2Wg8qnngfb4Q3DwePpUa47CPgjacytTGKYPZBYvB4R8mMg ybCJh0eIanO2l1ckN6IVAs4FfJep6gDTuzEH8lAVhdqdV3U/xiEEFFZK/Hgb4Z4LNVib tTIUA3LnkD6PMhq9Ih+O4XTm4pcN9qfsAdi8N+O4xPD8qbeUv+0pB/ZRk5mY6Y+2zOTx Zveg== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date :message-id:subject:to; bh=vcY6be8PtnMngQ/MBRIX4SvxaARwJvNilYNLD3AVPA8=; b=WZF6pUvGJlY5y5gBV0kmlqVrylCDqPGWXxigfV7ecsdmk15e0EsBWJhmTHmQnb+/He OxzrCVsd5Po+O16Hbvr8ntapHZQ14tOlNTM37Hn/xZG0IyKXVH+PPFPqqUc/gOVR6FZT FuHk6YZpAcB3nHNDyNu17OFY75z+qCI2fL4z4hdyWmzoU0pFmOY/mTLh/RHLf7C99zx+ kRxv/k4+//JUu9jwlSTpwueAFmnV5C5uWU0aeDZgrDTOwRpm3H4Kd+hJkvgIezKwTLOx Lc87I/W2+MuyJJXMmRLz1eR9ELFX1UKges74qMeXJpKuAfqGt6g8GlH6fIk49ov9y0cn MUwQ== X-Gm-Message-State: APjAAAWZf98T+OesAIQscWQvRyRjjhd4vlHsUGbS3Rz87e+BmXtBsyzj 70QSmUvqJ8KFHrQzF9DHtEdheCB51XJgPsLcsxFCwg== X-Google-Smtp-Source: APXvYqzsxxuMYMFcA+FdA/Ipsh5sTcbaTmjBReTPD2DEuhe8usdUA8F/B+CUYWZsDwFY4PYexifeRqTVClD/pD9r4vc= X-Received: by 2002:a19:6b04:: with SMTP id d4mr39648lfa.57.1558114647711; Fri, 17 May 2019 10:37:27 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 References: <20190517111457.otxjxtit3a4gwz73@anna.jacobs.jacobs-university.de> In-Reply-To: <20190517111457.otxjxtit3a4gwz73@anna.jacobs.jacobs-university.de> From: Andy Bierman Date: Fri, 17 May 2019 10:37:16 -0700 Message-ID: To: Juergen Schoenwaelder , Qin Wu , "netmod@ietf.org" Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="00000000000018c192058918d607" Archived-At: Subject: Re: [netmod] I-D Action: draft-ietf-netmod-factory-default-01.txt X-BeenThere: netmod@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: NETMOD WG list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 17 May 2019 17:37:33 -0000 --00000000000018c192058918d607 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" On Fri, May 17, 2019 at 4:15 AM Juergen Schoenwaelder < j.schoenwaelder@jacobs-university.de> wrote: > I think this does not work: > > [...] For operation,it can be used to copy > the factory default content to another datastore, however the > content of the datastore is not propagated automatically to any > other datastores. > > You can't change the way things work. If something is committed to > lets say , then this triggers the propagation to > and eventually . You can't come along and say that > copy-config from a particular source stops this. > > Agreed. I have been objecting to the client-controlled datastore-specific factory reset. I do not know of any devices which support such a thing. I would like to understand the use-cases that make this so useful and common practice that it should be standardized. > Is it really useful to expose factory default to copy config? Or said > differenlty, would it not make sense to fix copy-config (at some other > place) so that it can generically work with new datastores? > > The content of the factory-default datastore is usually not security > sensitive as it is the same on any device of a certain type. > > I am not sure this is true. > > For non-trivial devices, the default is likely not static but > something that takes into account device features available and the > specific hardware configuration present. It is actually somewhat > unclear what the factory-default datastore contains; the stuff I can > expect to see in after the reset or some static stuff that > may be tweaked during the boot process to yield the initial . > Or are we pretending these two are always the same? > > The startup procedure within a server is very proprietary and can be very different, even for vendors using the same server code. There are no standard procedures today that allow a client to inject configuration into this process. The client is allowed to alter configuration only after the saved or factory configuration is loaded. IMO it should stay this way. e.g, : do not want to standardize: copy-config source=factory target=candidate edit-config target=candidate ... commit This is the only use-case I can imagine for copy-config from factory, but IMO it is not very important. (get-config(factory) + edit-config already supports it.) The copyright year needs adjustment. Indentation of the YANG > statements should be fixed. > > /js > > Andy > -- > Juergen Schoenwaelder Jacobs University Bremen gGmbH > Phone: +49 421 200 3587 Campus Ring 1 | 28759 Bremen | Germany > Fax: +49 421 200 3103 > > _______________________________________________ > netmod mailing list > netmod@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/netmod > --00000000000018c192058918d607 Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable


=
On Fri, May 17, 2019 at 4:15 AM Juerg= en Schoenwaelder <j.schoenwaelder@jacobs-university.de> wrote:
I think this does not work:

=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 [...]=C2=A0 For <copy-config> operation,it can b= e used to copy
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 the factory default content to another datastore, howe= ver the
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 content of the datastore is not propagated automatical= ly to any
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 other datastores.

You can't change the way things work. If something is committed to
lets say <running>, then this triggers the propagation to <intende= d>
and eventually <operational>. You can't come along and say that copy-config from a particular source stops this.


Agreed. I have been objecting to the c= lient-controlled datastore-specific factory reset.
I do not know = of any devices which support such a thing.=C2=A0 I would like to
= understand the use-cases that make this so useful and common practice that = it
should be standardized.

=C2=A0
<= blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-l= eft:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex"> Is it really useful to expose factory default to copy config? Or said
differenlty, would it not make sense to fix copy-config (at some other
place) so that it can generically work with new datastores?

=C2=A0 =C2=A0The content of the factory-default datastore is usually not se= curity
=C2=A0 =C2=A0sensitive as it is the same on any device of a certain type.
I am not sure this is true.

For non-trivial devices, the default is likely not static but
something that takes into account device features available and the
specific hardware configuration present. It is actually somewhat
unclear what the factory-default datastore contains; the stuff I can
expect to see in <running> after the reset or some static stuff that<= br> may be tweaked during the boot process to yield the initial <running>= .
Or are we pretending these two are always the same?


The startup procedure within a server = is very proprietary and can be
very different, even for vendors u= sing the same server code.

There are no standard p= rocedures today that allow a client to inject configuration
into = this process. The client is allowed to alter configuration only after
=
the saved or factory configuration is loaded.=C2=A0 IMO it should stay= this way.

e.g, : do not want to standardize:

=C2=A0 =C2=A0copy-config source=3Dfactory target=3Dcan= didate
=C2=A0 =C2=A0edit-config target=3Dcandidate ...
= =C2=A0 =C2=A0commit

This is the only use-case I ca= n imagine for copy-config from factory,
but IMO it is not very im= portant. (get-config(factory)=C2=A0+ edit-config
already supports= it.)


The copyright year needs adjustment. Indentation of the YANG
statements should be fixed.

/js


Andy
=C2=A0
--
Juergen Schoenwaelder=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0Jacobs Univer= sity Bremen gGmbH
Phone: +49 421 200 3587=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0Campus Ring 1 | 28= 759 Bremen | Germany
Fax:=C2=A0 =C2=A0+49 421 200 3103=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0<https://www.jacobs-university.de/>

_______________________________________________
netmod mailing list
netmod@ietf.org https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/netmod
--00000000000018c192058918d607-- From nobody Fri May 17 12:52:56 2019 Return-Path: <0100016ac75aaed8-31a9e97f-4419-49ad-ab8c-700a83d5f19e-000000@amazonses.watsen.net> X-Original-To: netmod@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: netmod@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0D09712013E for ; Fri, 17 May 2019 12:52:55 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.899 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.899 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (1024-bit key) header.d=amazonses.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id bKkiYQxXNiWg for ; Fri, 17 May 2019 12:52:52 -0700 (PDT) Received: from a8-96.smtp-out.amazonses.com (a8-96.smtp-out.amazonses.com [54.240.8.96]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id A8D8612016D for ; Fri, 17 May 2019 12:52:51 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; q=dns/txt; c=relaxed/simple; s=6gbrjpgwjskckoa6a5zn6fwqkn67xbtw; d=amazonses.com; t=1558122770; h=From:Content-Type:Mime-Version:Subject:Message-Id:Date:To:Feedback-ID; bh=vBrWKd1wL3Ru6tdA0mP7MDe9EiQIUYMTp9eCNW4ybm8=; b=ZA1FpZQvUAs9P6ACuDRkK28oQLT/0+gBUn4J7HY3adr48DchmSKBfsCx2/qCGTwy pTmruuiOhlo3GVpUlta4jQwMyKSgrKGAU6ZL24dhmd2YQVXUaRTDHu3RUv6gPyXfG4O JBJGjMScOqTy2IQODBcILiFJ4wQU08u5WB0pg79I= From: Kent Watsen Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="Apple-Mail=_2836BD01-6E00-4EC9-ACDE-C34A66257DD1" Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 12.2 \(3445.102.3\)) Message-ID: <0100016ac75aaed8-31a9e97f-4419-49ad-ab8c-700a83d5f19e-000000@email.amazonses.com> Date: Fri, 17 May 2019 19:52:50 +0000 To: "netmod@ietf.org" X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.3445.102.3) X-SES-Outgoing: 2019.05.17-54.240.8.96 Feedback-ID: 1.us-east-1.DKmIRZFhhsBhtmFMNikgwZUWVrODEw9qVcPhqJEI2DA=:AmazonSES Archived-At: Subject: [netmod] can a leaf of type "empty" have a "default" value? X-BeenThere: netmod@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: NETMOD WG list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 17 May 2019 19:52:55 -0000 --Apple-Mail=_2836BD01-6E00-4EC9-ACDE-C34A66257DD1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii A leaf with type "empty" is often times used to represent a boolean: = present =3D=3D set, not present =3D=3D not set. Is there a way in YANG = to specify that the "empty" type leaf is "set" by default? Perhaps like = this: leaf flag { type empty; default ""; } Kent // contributor --Apple-Mail=_2836BD01-6E00-4EC9-ACDE-C34A66257DD1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Type: text/html; charset=us-ascii

A leaf with type "empty" is often times used to represent a boolean: present == set, not present == not set.  Is there a way in YANG to specify that the "empty" type leaf is "set" by default?  Perhaps like this:

    leaf flag {
        type empty;
        default "";
    }

Kent // contributor

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X-BeenThere: netmod@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: NETMOD WG list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 17 May 2019 19:59:48 -0000 --_000_4D3B1530A6714A3E846177BE91507D7Bciscocom_ Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 SGkgS2VudCwNCg0KRnJvbSBodHRwczovL3Rvb2xzLmlldGYub3JnL2h0bWwvcmZjNzk1MCNzZWN0 aW9uLTkuMTENCkFuIGVtcHR5IHR5cGUgY2Fubm90IGhhdmUgYSBkZWZhdWx0IHZhbHVlLg0KDQpS ZWdhcmRzLA0KUmVzaGFkLg0KDQpGcm9tOiBuZXRtb2QgPG5ldG1vZC1ib3VuY2VzQGlldGYub3Jn PiBvbiBiZWhhbGYgb2YgS2VudCBXYXRzZW4gPGtlbnQraWV0ZkB3YXRzZW4ubmV0Pg0KRGF0ZTog RnJpZGF5LCBNYXkgMTcsIDIwMTkgYXQgMzo1MyBQTQ0KVG86ICJuZXRtb2RAaWV0Zi5vcmciIDxu ZXRtb2RAaWV0Zi5vcmc+DQpTdWJqZWN0OiBbbmV0bW9kXSBjYW4gYSBsZWFmIG9mIHR5cGUgImVt cHR5IiBoYXZlIGEgImRlZmF1bHQiIHZhbHVlPw0KDQoNCkEgbGVhZiB3aXRoIHR5cGUgImVtcHR5 IiBpcyBvZnRlbiB0aW1lcyB1c2VkIHRvIHJlcHJlc2VudCBhIGJvb2xlYW46IHByZXNlbnQgPT0g 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tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (1024-bit key) header.d=amazonses.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id CovyZMdBrkGK for ; Fri, 17 May 2019 14:44:44 -0700 (PDT) Received: from a8-33.smtp-out.amazonses.com (a8-33.smtp-out.amazonses.com [54.240.8.33]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 1000E120073 for ; Fri, 17 May 2019 14:44:43 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; q=dns/txt; c=relaxed/simple; s=6gbrjpgwjskckoa6a5zn6fwqkn67xbtw; d=amazonses.com; t=1558129482; h=From:Message-Id:Content-Type:Mime-Version:Subject:Date:In-Reply-To:Cc:To:References:Feedback-ID; bh=561KYiJbB85K2t73ja3/7epSp6fR+MG2/2m8dAYYZYA=; b=A/0blakg3r+MkqJz8PA8IdtiyXkY0CiebVPVFH9pXhdkG7g79cKkNaqcNg0QumLg aAF0Ozpx8pIFc+4PhFmwgSuXSjaa1cVR7BJkOvqRSD67IubkB7BA0XH2FD+8iBmKEAQ HFi4v9sYGANnzGyuUp/uM9dBReqgieC1wKzg+Hvw= From: Kent Watsen Message-ID: <0100016ac7c11b7d-054d8d19-87cf-4379-8038-634c99bc492b-000000@email.amazonses.com> Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="Apple-Mail=_54DE03EE-0978-4B04-94A7-AF683B6853F6" Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 12.2 \(3445.102.3\)) Date: Fri, 17 May 2019 21:44:42 +0000 In-Reply-To: <4D3B1530-A671-4A3E-8461-77BE91507D7B@cisco.com> Cc: "netmod@ietf.org" To: "Reshad Rahman (rrahman)" References: <0100016ac75aaed8-31a9e97f-4419-49ad-ab8c-700a83d5f19e-000000@email.amazonses.com> <4D3B1530-A671-4A3E-8461-77BE91507D7B@cisco.com> X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.3445.102.3) X-SES-Outgoing: 2019.05.17-54.240.8.33 Feedback-ID: 1.us-east-1.DKmIRZFhhsBhtmFMNikgwZUWVrODEw9qVcPhqJEI2DA=:AmazonSES Archived-At: Subject: Re: [netmod] can a leaf of type "empty" have a "default" value? X-BeenThere: netmod@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: NETMOD WG list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 17 May 2019 21:44:46 -0000 --Apple-Mail=_54DE03EE-0978-4B04-94A7-AF683B6853F6 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Oh bother, my eyes glossed right over that. Thanks for spotting it! K. > On May 17, 2019, at 3:59 PM, Reshad Rahman (rrahman) = wrote: >=20 > Hi Kent, > =20 > =46rom https://tools.ietf.org/html/rfc7950#section-9.11 = > An empty type cannot have a default value. > =20 > Regards, > Reshad. > =20 > From: netmod on behalf of Kent Watsen = > Date: Friday, May 17, 2019 at 3:53 PM > To: "netmod@ietf.org" > Subject: [netmod] can a leaf of type "empty" have a "default" value? > =20 > =20 > A leaf with type "empty" is often times used to represent a boolean: = present =3D=3D set, not present =3D=3D not set. Is there a way in YANG = to specify that the "empty" type leaf is "set" by default? Perhaps like = this: > =20 > leaf flag { > type empty; > default ""; > } > =20 > Kent // contributor > =20 --Apple-Mail=_54DE03EE-0978-4B04-94A7-AF683B6853F6 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Type: text/html; charset=us-ascii Oh bother, my eyes glossed right over that.  Thanks for spotting it!

K.



On May 17, 2019, at 3:59 PM, Reshad Rahman (rrahman) <rrahman@cisco.com> wrote:

Hi Kent,
 
From https://tools.ietf.org/html/rfc7950#section-9.11
An empty type cannot have a default value.
 
Regards,
Reshad.
 
From: netmod <netmod-bounces@ietf.org> on behalf of Kent Watsen <kent+ietf@watsen.net>
Date: Friday, May 17, 2019 at 3:53 PM
To: "netmod@ietf.org" <netmod@ietf.org>
Subject: [netmod] can a leaf of type "empty" have a "default" value?
 
 
A leaf with type "empty" is often times used to represent a boolean: present == set, not present == not set.  Is there a way in YANG to specify that the "empty" type leaf is "set" by default?  Perhaps like this:
 
    leaf flag {
        type empty;
        default "";
    }
 
Kent // contributor
 

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for ; Sun, 19 May 2019 22:57:10 -0700 (PDT) Received: from lhreml704-cah.china.huawei.com (unknown [172.18.7.106]) by Forcepoint Email with ESMTP id 5137E7E2FF6564300A9E; Mon, 20 May 2019 06:57:08 +0100 (IST) Received: from NKGEML411-HUB.china.huawei.com (10.98.56.70) by lhreml704-cah.china.huawei.com (10.201.108.45) with Microsoft SMTP Server (TLS) id 14.3.408.0; Mon, 20 May 2019 06:57:07 +0100 Received: from NKGEML513-MBX.china.huawei.com ([169.254.1.182]) by nkgeml411-hub.china.huawei.com ([10.98.56.70]) with mapi id 14.03.0415.000; Mon, 20 May 2019 13:57:01 +0800 From: Qin Wu To: Juergen Schoenwaelder CC: "netmod@ietf.org" Thread-Topic: [netmod] I-D Action: draft-ietf-netmod-factory-default-01.txt Thread-Index: AdUOwKSkoNULWGbCSDC9QJu82XvZFw== Date: Mon, 20 May 2019 05:57:02 +0000 Message-ID: Accept-Language: zh-CN, en-US Content-Language: zh-CN X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-originating-ip: [10.134.31.203] Content-Type: text/plain; charset="gb2312" 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ESMTPS id 467912011B; Mon, 20 May 2019 08:20:04 +0200 (CEST) Received: from anna.localdomain (10.50.218.117) by sxchmb03.jacobs.jacobs-university.de (10.70.0.155) with Microsoft SMTP Server (version=TLS1_2, cipher=TLS_ECDHE_RSA_WITH_AES_256_GCM_SHA384) id 15.1.1713.5; Mon, 20 May 2019 08:20:03 +0200 Received: by anna.localdomain (Postfix, from userid 501) id 5832E300927AEF; Mon, 20 May 2019 08:20:03 +0200 (CEST) Date: Mon, 20 May 2019 08:20:03 +0200 From: Juergen Schoenwaelder To: Qin Wu CC: "netmod@ietf.org" Message-ID: <20190520062003.i4wl2f7ekx34lctn@anna.jacobs.jacobs-university.de> Reply-To: Juergen Schoenwaelder Mail-Followup-To: Qin Wu , "netmod@ietf.org" References: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: User-Agent: NeoMutt/20180716 X-ClientProxiedBy: SXCHMB03.jacobs.jacobs-university.de (10.70.0.155) To sxchmb03.jacobs.jacobs-university.de (10.70.0.155) X-Clacks-Overhead: GNU Terry Pratchett Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Archived-At: Subject: Re: [netmod] I-D Action: draft-ietf-netmod-factory-default-01.txt X-BeenThere: netmod@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: NETMOD WG list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 20 May 2019 06:20:11 -0000 On Mon, May 20, 2019 at 05:57:02AM +0000, Qin Wu wrote: > -----=E9=82=AE=E4=BB=B6=E5=8E=9F=E4=BB=B6----- > =E5=8F=91=E4=BB=B6=E4=BA=BA: Juergen Schoenwaelder [mailto:j.schoenwael= der@jacobs-university.de]=20 > =E5=8F=91=E9=80=81=E6=97=B6=E9=97=B4: 2019=E5=B9=B45=E6=9C=8817=E6=97=A5= 19:15 > =E6=94=B6=E4=BB=B6=E4=BA=BA: Qin Wu > =E6=8A=84=E9=80=81: netmod@ietf.org > =E4=B8=BB=E9=A2=98: Re: [netmod] I-D Action: draft-ietf-netmod-factory-= default-01.txt >=20 > I think this does not work: >=20 > [...] For operation,it can be used to copy > the factory default content to another datastore, however the > content of the datastore is not propagated automatically to any > other datastores. >=20 > You can't change the way things work. If something is committed to lets= say , then this triggers the propagation to and even= tually . You can't come along and say that copy-config from = a particular source stops this. > [Qin]:Automatic propagation we were referred to is that when we have th= ree datastores, let's say datastore A, datastore B, datastore C, one time= operation can not copy content of datastore A to datstore = B and datastore C at the same time, > But you are right, content of will be automatically propagate= d to and , we will see how to tweak the text. This is not what the text says. And given the parameters of copy-config, it is obvious that you can't copy to multiple datastores. =20 > Is it really useful to expose factory default to copy config? Or said d= ifferenlty, would it not make sense to fix copy-config (at some other > place) so that it can generically work with new datastores? > [Qin]: Note that this is just an option feature to to ass= ign one single target datastore with factory default content, I am wonder= ing why it can not be defined in this draft in a more generic way? > Even in RFC6241bis or a separate draft, if you add this feature support= to , you will augment in the same way, if my = understanding is correct. No. You would allow any datastore, not a specific one. > The content of the factory-default datastore is usually not security > sensitive as it is the same on any device of a certain type. >=20 > I am not sure this is true. >=20 > For non-trivial devices, the default is likely not static but something= that takes into account device features available and the specific hardw= are configuration present. It is actually somewhat unclear what the facto= ry-default datastore contains; the stuff I can expect to see in = after the reset or some static stuff that may be tweaked during the boot= process to yield the initial . > Or are we pretending these two are always the same? > [Qin]: We emphasize "usually not", to address your comments, we could a= dd: > " > When its contents are considered sensitive, It is RECOMMENDED that the = factory default=20 > Data is encrypted." You propose to invent another layer of encryption??? /js --=20 Juergen Schoenwaelder Jacobs University Bremen gGmbH Phone: +49 421 200 3587 Campus Ring 1 | 28759 Bremen | Germany Fax: +49 421 200 3103 From nobody Sun May 19 23:27:50 2019 Return-Path: X-Original-To: netmod@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: netmod@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 72BD51200C4 for ; Sun, 19 May 2019 23:27:49 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -4.199 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-4.199 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-2.3, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id ev3U4G1eEFYN for ; Sun, 19 May 2019 23:27:47 -0700 (PDT) Received: from huawei.com (lhrrgout.huawei.com [185.176.76.210]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id E6BF81200CC for ; Sun, 19 May 2019 23:27:46 -0700 (PDT) Received: from LHREML711-CAH.china.huawei.com (unknown [172.18.7.108]) by Forcepoint Email with ESMTP id AFAF33DC737FA85FB8CE; Mon, 20 May 2019 07:27:44 +0100 (IST) Received: from lhreml705-chm.china.huawei.com (10.201.108.54) by LHREML711-CAH.china.huawei.com (10.201.108.34) with Microsoft SMTP Server (TLS) id 14.3.408.0; Mon, 20 May 2019 07:27:44 +0100 Received: from lhreml705-chm.china.huawei.com (10.201.108.54) by lhreml705-chm.china.huawei.com (10.201.108.54) with Microsoft SMTP Server (version=TLS1_2, cipher=TLS_ECDHE_RSA_WITH_AES_128_CBC_SHA256_P256) id 15.1.1713.5; Mon, 20 May 2019 07:27:44 +0100 Received: from NKGEML413-HUB.china.huawei.com (10.98.56.74) by lhreml705-chm.china.huawei.com (10.201.108.54) with Microsoft SMTP Server (version=TLS1_0, 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+0200 Received: by anna.localdomain (Postfix, from userid 501) id 9F248300927BF5; Mon, 20 May 2019 08:57:44 +0200 (CEST) Date: Mon, 20 May 2019 08:57:44 +0200 From: Juergen Schoenwaelder To: Qin Wu CC: "netmod@ietf.org" Message-ID: <20190520065744.xqoyurd4o6weoxzk@anna.jacobs.jacobs-university.de> Reply-To: Juergen Schoenwaelder Mail-Followup-To: Qin Wu , "netmod@ietf.org" References: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: User-Agent: NeoMutt/20180716 X-ClientProxiedBy: SXCHMB04.jacobs.jacobs-university.de (10.70.0.156) To sxchmb03.jacobs.jacobs-university.de (10.70.0.155) Archived-At: Subject: Re: [netmod] I-D Action: draft-ietf-netmod-factory-default-01.txt X-BeenThere: netmod@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: NETMOD WG list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 20 May 2019 06:57:49 -0000 On Mon, May 20, 2019 at 06:44:26AM +0000, Qin Wu wrote: > > " > > When its contents are considered sensitive, It is RECOMMENDED that the > > factory default Data is encrypted." > > You propose to invent another layer of encryption??? > [Qin]: Not my intention, I think factory default data may have be encrypted already. > We could reuse it. > You can reuse something you dream up. Security considerations need to be factual not handwaving. /js -- Juergen Schoenwaelder Jacobs University Bremen gGmbH Phone: +49 421 200 3587 Campus Ring 1 | 28759 Bremen | Germany Fax: +49 421 200 3103 From nobody Mon May 20 02:53:45 2019 Return-Path: X-Original-To: netmod@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: netmod@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5BE6412012B for ; Mon, 20 May 2019 02:53:43 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -14.5 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-14.5 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_HI=-5, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001, USER_IN_DEF_DKIM_WL=-7.5] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (1024-bit key) header.d=cisco.com header.b=kvWXbDNj; dkim=pass (1024-bit key) header.d=cisco.onmicrosoft.com 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X19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX18NCj4gbmV0bW9kIG1haWxpbmcgbGlzdA0KPiBu ZXRtb2RAaWV0Zi5vcmcNCj4gaHR0cHM6Ly93d3cuaWV0Zi5vcmcvbWFpbG1hbi9saXN0aW5mby9u ZXRtb2QNCg== From nobody Mon May 20 03:31:32 2019 Return-Path: X-Original-To: netmod@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: netmod@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 11ED912016F for ; Mon, 20 May 2019 03:31:31 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.899 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.899 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id Q3yV1Ast3Svr for ; Mon, 20 May 2019 03:31:28 -0700 (PDT) Received: from atlas5.jacobs-university.de (atlas5.jacobs-university.de [212.201.44.20]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher 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15.1.1713.5; Mon, 20 May 2019 12:31:25 +0200 Received: by anna.localdomain (Postfix, from userid 501) id 04DB13009289AE; Mon, 20 May 2019 12:31:24 +0200 (CEST) Date: Mon, 20 May 2019 12:31:24 +0200 From: Juergen Schoenwaelder To: "Rob Wilton (rwilton)" CC: Qin Wu , "netmod@ietf.org" Message-ID: <20190520103124.xhtndcug2lz6guka@anna.jacobs.jacobs-university.de> Reply-To: Juergen Schoenwaelder Mail-Followup-To: "Rob Wilton (rwilton)" , Qin Wu , "netmod@ietf.org" References: <20190520062003.i4wl2f7ekx34lctn@anna.jacobs.jacobs-university.de> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: User-Agent: NeoMutt/20180716 X-ClientProxiedBy: SXCHMB03.jacobs.jacobs-university.de (10.70.0.155) To sxchmb03.jacobs.jacobs-university.de (10.70.0.155) X-Clacks-Overhead: GNU Terry Pratchett Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Archived-At: Subject: Re: [netmod] I-D Action: draft-ietf-netmod-factory-default-01.txt X-BeenThere: netmod@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: NETMOD WG list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 20 May 2019 10:31:31 -0000 +1 /js On Mon, May 20, 2019 at 09:53:35AM +0000, Rob Wilton (rwilton) wrote: > If the purpose of the extending the copy-config operation to the factor= y-default datastore is just another generic way to do the factory-reset R= PC then I would suggest that we don't modify copy-config as part of this = draft. Instead, I think that it would be good to fix this generically (f= or any datastore) in a future update of NETCONF - I see that you have alr= eady raised https://github.com/netconf-wg/netconf-next/issues/2 to track = this. >=20 > In theory, a client could use copy-config in a slightly different way t= o the factory-reset RPC, i.e., to copy from the factory-default to candid= ate, then have the client modify the configuration until they are happy w= ith it, before committing it. But I'm not sure that this in the best app= roach. If I was writing a client, I would choose to code the client to r= ead from the factory-default datastore (if needed), then construct whatev= er the desired configuration of the device is, before pushing it to devic= e. >=20 > For me, I think that the most important parts of this draft are being a= ble to read from the factory-default datastore, and having an RPC to rese= t the device back to the factory-default state. I would probably defer u= pdating copy-config until it can be fixed properly in NETCONF. >=20 > Thanks, > Rob >=20 >=20 > > -----Original Message----- > > From: netmod On Behalf Of Juergen Schoenwae= lder > > Sent: 20 May 2019 07:20 > > To: Qin Wu > > Cc: netmod@ietf.org > > Subject: Re: [netmod] I-D Action: draft-ietf-netmod-factory-default-0= 1.txt > >=20 > > On Mon, May 20, 2019 at 05:57:02AM +0000, Qin Wu wrote: > > > -----=E9=82=AE=E4=BB=B6=E5=8E=9F=E4=BB=B6----- > > > =E5=8F=91=E4=BB=B6=E4=BA=BA: Juergen Schoenwaelder > > > [mailto:j.schoenwaelder@jacobs-university.de] > > > =E5=8F=91=E9=80=81=E6=97=B6=E9=97=B4: 2019=E5=B9=B45=E6=9C=8817=E6=97= =A5 19:15 > > > =E6=94=B6=E4=BB=B6=E4=BA=BA: Qin Wu > > > =E6=8A=84=E9=80=81: netmod@ietf.org > > > =E4=B8=BB=E9=A2=98: Re: [netmod] I-D Action: draft-ietf-netmod-fact= ory-default-01.txt > > > > > > I think this does not work: > > > > > > [...] For operation,it can be used to copy > > > the factory default content to another datastore, however the > > > content of the datastore is not propagated automatically to a= ny > > > other datastores. > > > > > > You can't change the way things work. If something is committed to = lets > > say , then this triggers the propagation to and > > eventually . You can't come along and say that copy-conf= ig > > from a particular source stops this. > > > [Qin]:Automatic propagation we were referred to is that when we hav= e > > > three datastores, let's say datastore A, datastore B, datastore C, = one > > time operation can not copy content of datastore A to > > datstore B and datastore C at the same time, But you are right, conte= nt of > > will be automatically propagated to and , > > we will see how to tweak the text. > >=20 > > This is not what the text says. And given the parameters of copy-conf= ig, it > > is obvious that you can't copy to multiple datastores. > >=20 > > > Is it really useful to expose factory default to copy config? Or sa= id > > > differenlty, would it not make sense to fix copy-config (at some ot= her > > > place) so that it can generically work with new datastores? > > > [Qin]: Note that this is just an option feature to to > > assign one single target datastore with factory default content, I am > > wondering why it can not be defined in this draft in a more generic w= ay? > > > Even in RFC6241bis or a separate draft, if you add this feature sup= port > > to , you will augment in the same way, if = my > > understanding is correct. > >=20 > > No. You would allow any datastore, not a specific one. > >=20 > > > The content of the factory-default datastore is usually not secu= rity > > > sensitive as it is the same on any device of a certain type. > > > > > > I am not sure this is true. > > > > > > For non-trivial devices, the default is likely not static but somet= hing > > that takes into account device features available and the specific ha= rdware > > configuration present. It is actually somewhat unclear what the facto= ry- > > default datastore contains; the stuff I can expect to see in > > after the reset or some static stuff that may be tweaked during the b= oot > > process to yield the initial . > > > Or are we pretending these two are always the same? > > > [Qin]: We emphasize "usually not", to address your comments, we cou= ld > > add: > > > " > > > When its contents are considered sensitive, It is RECOMMENDED that = the > > > factory default Data is encrypted." > >=20 > > You propose to invent another layer of encryption??? > >=20 > > /js > >=20 > > -- > > Juergen Schoenwaelder Jacobs University Bremen gGmbH > > Phone: +49 421 200 3587 Campus Ring 1 | 28759 Bremen | German= y > > Fax: +49 421 200 3103 > >=20 > > _______________________________________________ > > netmod mailing list > > netmod@ietf.org > > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/netmod --=20 Juergen Schoenwaelder Jacobs University Bremen gGmbH Phone: +49 421 200 3587 Campus Ring 1 | 28759 Bremen | Germany Fax: +49 421 200 3103 From nobody Mon May 20 06:57:32 2019 Return-Path: <0100016ad5886a16-9c766034-ee10-4a60-a0ba-ee2fd5d7ff47-000000@amazonses.watsen.net> X-Original-To: netmod@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: netmod@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4144412017E for ; Mon, 20 May 2019 06:57:32 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.899 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.899 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_H2=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (1024-bit key) header.d=amazonses.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id hsGzuKAIYPt1 for ; Mon, 20 May 2019 06:57:30 -0700 (PDT) Received: from a8-31.smtp-out.amazonses.com (a8-31.smtp-out.amazonses.com [54.240.8.31]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id D549612012C for ; Mon, 20 May 2019 06:57:29 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; q=dns/txt; c=relaxed/simple; s=6gbrjpgwjskckoa6a5zn6fwqkn67xbtw; d=amazonses.com; t=1558360648; h=From:Message-Id:Content-Type:Mime-Version:Subject:Date:In-Reply-To:Cc:To:References:Feedback-ID; bh=6PqxepbhTubTn1SK2jGBdjdTtbgwtmnMlsuiuLxn3HM=; b=esIJMHzSEl1TFh73jFG6dWg8L/u5NvoM18wfBLeqxp1JGvDkm7BLPhE4ptXPsPfJ euHdiPPexFZdOu27A4vQnBCAsq5MRP7tTqArQd/t3uYUJVEHwkV85enQHvhJ7pHPZOq AVfMFwbkOyhbjlg7kXVQLmLlDSNBEtWBdki8pZyg= From: Kent Watsen Message-ID: <0100016ad5886a16-9c766034-ee10-4a60-a0ba-ee2fd5d7ff47-000000@email.amazonses.com> Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="Apple-Mail=_275793E0-75A3-4814-9085-E878E05A49D0" Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 12.2 \(3445.102.3\)) Date: Mon, 20 May 2019 13:57:28 +0000 In-Reply-To: <20190520103124.xhtndcug2lz6guka@anna.jacobs.jacobs-university.de> Cc: "Rob Wilton (rwilton)" , "netmod@ietf.org" To: Juergen Schoenwaelder References: <20190520062003.i4wl2f7ekx34lctn@anna.jacobs.jacobs-university.de> <20190520103124.xhtndcug2lz6guka@anna.jacobs.jacobs-university.de> X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.3445.102.3) X-SES-Outgoing: 2019.05.20-54.240.8.31 Feedback-ID: 1.us-east-1.DKmIRZFhhsBhtmFMNikgwZUWVrODEw9qVcPhqJEI2DA=:AmazonSES Archived-At: Subject: Re: [netmod] I-D Action: draft-ietf-netmod-factory-default-01.txt X-BeenThere: netmod@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: NETMOD WG list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 20 May 2019 13:57:32 -0000 --Apple-Mail=_275793E0-75A3-4814-9085-E878E05A49D0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 The value-proposition is limited and not worth special = effort to make happen. - RFC 6241: augment statements are needed to add to the existing RPCs, = so just support . - RFC 8040: datastore aren't supported, there's no way to access the = "factory-default" datastore. - RFC 8342: Appendix A needs to be observed, which this draft does in = its Section 3 (note, a reference to Appendix A should be added here). - RFC 8526's and come along for free (though = edits would fail due to this new datastore being read-only. Note that RFC 8526 does not = define a RFC... - RFC 8527's datastore resource (i.e., = /ds/ietf-datastores:operational:factory-default) and all the standard HTTP operations (OPTIONS, HEAD, GET, etc.) come for = free but, again, there is no "COPY" operation Just supporting (and not ) is the most = consistent option. PS: the "WG Chair" lines should be removed from he YANG module. We = don't do that anymore. Kent // contributor > On May 20, 2019, at 6:31 AM, Juergen Schoenwaelder = wrote: >=20 > +1 >=20 > /js >=20 > On Mon, May 20, 2019 at 09:53:35AM +0000, Rob Wilton (rwilton) wrote: >> If the purpose of the extending the copy-config operation to the = factory-default datastore is just another generic way to do the = factory-reset RPC then I would suggest that we don't modify copy-config = as part of this draft. Instead, I think that it would be good to fix = this generically (for any datastore) in a future update of NETCONF - I = see that you have already raised = https://github.com/netconf-wg/netconf-next/issues/2 to track this. >>=20 >> In theory, a client could use copy-config in a slightly different way = to the factory-reset RPC, i.e., to copy from the factory-default to = candidate, then have the client modify the configuration until they are = happy with it, before committing it. But I'm not sure that this in the = best approach. If I was writing a client, I would choose to code the = client to read from the factory-default datastore (if needed), then = construct whatever the desired configuration of the device is, before = pushing it to device. >>=20 >> For me, I think that the most important parts of this draft are being = able to read from the factory-default datastore, and having an RPC to = reset the device back to the factory-default state. I would probably = defer updating copy-config until it can be fixed properly in NETCONF. >>=20 >> Thanks, >> Rob >>=20 >>=20 >>> -----Original Message----- >>> From: netmod On Behalf Of Juergen = Schoenwaelder >>> Sent: 20 May 2019 07:20 >>> To: Qin Wu >>> Cc: netmod@ietf.org >>> Subject: Re: [netmod] I-D Action: = draft-ietf-netmod-factory-default-01.txt >>>=20 >>> On Mon, May 20, 2019 at 05:57:02AM +0000, Qin Wu wrote: >>>> -----=E9=82=AE=E4=BB=B6=E5=8E=9F=E4=BB=B6----- >>>> =E5=8F=91=E4=BB=B6=E4=BA=BA: Juergen Schoenwaelder >>>> [mailto:j.schoenwaelder@jacobs-university.de] >>>> =E5=8F=91=E9=80=81=E6=97=B6=E9=97=B4: 2019=E5=B9=B45=E6=9C=8817=E6=97= =A5 19:15 >>>> =E6=94=B6=E4=BB=B6=E4=BA=BA: Qin Wu >>>> =E6=8A=84=E9=80=81: netmod@ietf.org >>>> =E4=B8=BB=E9=A2=98: Re: [netmod] I-D Action: = draft-ietf-netmod-factory-default-01.txt >>>>=20 >>>> I think this does not work: >>>>=20 >>>> [...] For operation,it can be used to copy >>>> the factory default content to another datastore, however the >>>> content of the datastore is not propagated automatically to = any >>>> other datastores. >>>>=20 >>>> You can't change the way things work. If something is committed to = lets >>> say , then this triggers the propagation to and >>> eventually . You can't come along and say that = copy-config >>> from a particular source stops this. >>>> [Qin]:Automatic propagation we were referred to is that when we = have >>>> three datastores, let's say datastore A, datastore B, datastore C, = one >>> time operation can not copy content of datastore A to >>> datstore B and datastore C at the same time, But you are right, = content of >>> will be automatically propagated to and = , >>> we will see how to tweak the text. >>>=20 >>> This is not what the text says. And given the parameters of = copy-config, it >>> is obvious that you can't copy to multiple datastores. >>>=20 >>>> Is it really useful to expose factory default to copy config? Or = said >>>> differenlty, would it not make sense to fix copy-config (at some = other >>>> place) so that it can generically work with new datastores? >>>> [Qin]: Note that this is just an option feature to to >>> assign one single target datastore with factory default content, I = am >>> wondering why it can not be defined in this draft in a more generic = way? >>>> Even in RFC6241bis or a separate draft, if you add this feature = support >>> to , you will augment in the same way, if = my >>> understanding is correct. >>>=20 >>> No. You would allow any datastore, not a specific one. >>>=20 >>>> The content of the factory-default datastore is usually not = security >>>> sensitive as it is the same on any device of a certain type. >>>>=20 >>>> I am not sure this is true. >>>>=20 >>>> For non-trivial devices, the default is likely not static but = something >>> that takes into account device features available and the specific = hardware >>> configuration present. It is actually somewhat unclear what the = factory- >>> default datastore contains; the stuff I can expect to see in = >>> after the reset or some static stuff that may be tweaked during the = boot >>> process to yield the initial . >>>> Or are we pretending these two are always the same? >>>> [Qin]: We emphasize "usually not", to address your comments, we = could >>> add: >>>> " >>>> When its contents are considered sensitive, It is RECOMMENDED that = the >>>> factory default Data is encrypted." >>>=20 >>> You propose to invent another layer of encryption??? >>>=20 >>> /js >>>=20 >>> -- >>> Juergen Schoenwaelder Jacobs University Bremen gGmbH >>> Phone: +49 421 200 3587 Campus Ring 1 | 28759 Bremen | = Germany >>> Fax: +49 421 200 3103 >>>=20 >>> _______________________________________________ >>> netmod mailing list >>> netmod@ietf.org >>> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/netmod >=20 > --=20 > Juergen Schoenwaelder Jacobs University Bremen gGmbH > Phone: +49 421 200 3587 Campus Ring 1 | 28759 Bremen | Germany > Fax: +49 421 200 3103 >=20 > _______________________________________________ > netmod mailing list > netmod@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/netmod --Apple-Mail=_275793E0-75A3-4814-9085-E878E05A49D0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/html; charset=utf-8 The = <copy-config> value-proposition is limited and not worth special = effort to make happen.
  - RFC 6241: augment = statements are needed to add to the existing RPCs, so just = support
            =            <get-config>.
  - RFC 8040: datastore aren't supported,  there's = no way to access the "factory-default" datastore.
  - RFC 8342: Appendix A needs to be observed, which = this draft does in its Section 3 (note, a
  =                     =  reference to Appendix A should be added here).
  - RFC 8526's <get-data> and <edit-data> = come along for free (though edits would fail due to this
          new datastore being = read-only.  Note that RFC 8526 does not define a = <copy-data> RFC...
  - = RFC 8527's datastore resource (i.e., = /ds/ietf-datastores:operational:factory-default) and all the
          standard HTTP operations = (OPTIONS, HEAD, GET, etc.)  come for free but, again, there = is
          no "COPY" = operation

Just = supporting <get-config> (and not <copy-config>) is the most = consistent option.

PS: the "WG Chair" lines should be removed from he YANG = module.  We don't do that anymore.

Kent // contributor


On May 20, 2019, at 6:31 AM, Juergen = Schoenwaelder <j.schoenwaelder@jacobs-university.de> wrote:

+1

/js

On Mon, May = 20, 2019 at 09:53:35AM +0000, Rob Wilton (rwilton) wrote:
If the purpose of the = extending the copy-config operation to the factory-default datastore is = just another generic way to do the factory-reset RPC then I would = suggest that we don't modify copy-config as part of this draft. =  Instead, I think that it would be good to fix this generically = (for any datastore) in a future update of NETCONF - I see that you have = already raised https://github.com/netconf-wg/netconf-next/issues/2 to = track this.

In theory, a client could use = copy-config in a slightly different way to the factory-reset RPC, i.e., = to copy from the factory-default to candidate, then have the client = modify the configuration until they are happy with it, before committing = it.  But I'm not sure that this in the best approach.  If I = was writing a client, I would choose to code the client to read from the = factory-default datastore (if needed), then construct whatever the = desired configuration of the device is, before pushing it to device.

For me, I think that the most important parts = of this draft are being able to read from the factory-default datastore, = and having an RPC to reset the device back to the factory-default state. =  I would probably defer updating copy-config until it can be fixed = properly in NETCONF.

Thanks,
Rob


-----Original Message-----
From: = netmod <netmod-bounces@ietf.org> On Behalf Of Juergen = Schoenwaelder
Sent: 20 May 2019 07:20
To: = Qin Wu <bill.wu@huawei.com>
Cc: netmod@ietf.org
Subject: Re: [netmod] I-D Action: = draft-ietf-netmod-factory-default-01.txt

On = Mon, May 20, 2019 at 05:57:02AM +0000, Qin Wu wrote:
-----=E9=82=AE=E4=BB=B6=E5= =8E=9F=E4=BB=B6-----
=E5=8F=91=E4=BB=B6=E4=BA=BA: Juergen = Schoenwaelder
[mailto:j.schoenwaelder@jacobs-university.de]
=E5=8F=91=E9=80=81=E6=97=B6=E9=97=B4: 2019=E5=B9=B45=E6=9C=8817= =E6=97=A5 19:15
=E6=94=B6=E4=BB=B6=E4=BA=BA: Qin Wu <bill.wu@huawei.com>
=E6=8A=84=E9=80=81: = netmod@ietf.org
=E4=B8=BB=E9=A2=98: Re: [netmod] I-D Action: = draft-ietf-netmod-factory-default-01.txt

I = think this does not work:

=      [...]  For <copy-config> = operation,it can be used to copy
=      the factory default content to another = datastore, however the
=      content of the datastore is not propagated = automatically to any
     other = datastores.

You can't change the way things = work. If something is committed to lets
say = <running>, then this triggers the propagation to <intended> = and
eventually <operational>. You can't come along = and say that copy-config
from a particular source stops = this.
[Qin]:Automatic = propagation we were referred to is that when we have
three = datastores, let's say datastore A, datastore B, datastore C, one
time <copy-config> operation can not copy = content of datastore A to
datstore B and datastore C at = the same time, But you are right, content of
<running>= will be automatically propagated to <intended> and = <operational>,
we will see how to tweak the text.

This is not what the text says. And given the = parameters of copy-config, it
is obvious that you can't = copy to multiple datastores.

Is it really useful to expose factory default = to copy config? Or said
differenlty, would it not make = sense to fix copy-config (at some other
place) so that it = can generically work with new datastores?
[Qin]: Note that = this is just an option feature to <copy-config> to
assign one single target datastore with factory = default content, I am
wondering why it can not be defined = in this draft in a more generic way?
Even in RFC6241bis or a separate draft, if you = add this feature support
to = <copy-config>, you will augment <copy-config> in the same = way, if my
understanding is correct.

No. You would allow any datastore, not a specific one.

=   The content of the factory-default datastore is usually not = security
  sensitive as it is the same on any = device of a certain type.

I am not sure = this is true.

For non-trivial devices, the = default is likely not static but something
that= takes into account device features available and the specific = hardware
configuration present. It is actually somewhat = unclear what the factory-
default datastore contains; the = stuff I can expect to see in <running>
after the = reset or some static stuff that may be tweaked during the boot
process to yield the initial <running>.
Or are we pretending = these two are always the same?
[Qin]: We emphasize = "usually not", to address your comments, we could
add:
"
When its contents are considered sensitive, = It is RECOMMENDED that the
factory default Data is = encrypted."

You propose to = invent another layer of encryption???

/js

--
Juergen Schoenwaelder =           Jacobs = University Bremen gGmbH
Phone: +49 421 200 3587 =         Campus Ring 1 | 28759 = Bremen | Germany
Fax:   +49 421 200 3103 =         <https://www.jacobs-university.de/>

_______________________________________________
netmod mailing list
netmod@ietf.org
https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/netmod

--
Juergen Schoenwaelder =           Jacobs = University Bremen gGmbH
Phone: +49 421 200 3587 =         Campus Ring 1 | 28759 = Bremen | Germany
Fax:   +49 421 200 3103 =         <https://www.jacobs-university.de/>

_______________________________________________
netmod mailing list
netmod@ietf.org
https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/netmod

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NKGEML513-MBX.china.huawei.com ([169.254.1.182]) by nkgeml412-hub.china.huawei.com ([10.98.56.73]) with mapi id 14.03.0415.000; Tue, 21 May 2019 09:27:41 +0800 From: Qin Wu To: Kent Watsen , Juergen Schoenwaelder CC: "netmod@ietf.org" Thread-Topic: [netmod] I-D Action: draft-ietf-netmod-factory-default-01.txt Thread-Index: AdUPc2PXvXy28ei0TDipRGM8M6juqA== Date: Tue, 21 May 2019 01:27:41 +0000 Message-ID: Accept-Language: zh-CN, en-US Content-Language: zh-CN X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-originating-ip: [10.134.31.203] Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="_000_B8F9A780D330094D99AF023C5877DABAA493EB8Fnkgeml513mbxchi_" MIME-Version: 1.0 X-CFilter-Loop: Reflected Archived-At: Subject: Re: [netmod] I-D Action: draft-ietf-netmod-factory-default-01.txt X-BeenThere: netmod@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: NETMOD WG list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 21 May 2019 01:27:49 -0000 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tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-2.3, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id WI64UVh4iIki; Tue, 21 May 2019 01:55:35 -0700 (PDT) Received: from huawei.com (lhrrgout.huawei.com [185.176.76.210]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id F030D1200FC; Tue, 21 May 2019 01:55:34 -0700 (PDT) Received: from lhreml702-cah.china.huawei.com (unknown [172.18.7.108]) by Forcepoint Email with ESMTP id 61C25A647CC9AB4AD310; Tue, 21 May 2019 09:55:32 +0100 (IST) Received: from lhreml711-chm.china.huawei.com (10.201.108.62) by lhreml702-cah.china.huawei.com (10.201.108.43) with Microsoft SMTP Server (TLS) id 14.3.408.0; Tue, 21 May 2019 09:55:32 +0100 Received: from lhreml711-chm.china.huawei.com (10.201.108.62) by lhreml711-chm.china.huawei.com (10.201.108.62) with Microsoft SMTP Server (version=TLS1_2, cipher=TLS_ECDHE_RSA_WITH_AES_128_GCM_SHA256) id 15.1.1713.5; Tue, 21 May 2019 09:55:32 +0100 Received: from DGGEMM404-HUB.china.huawei.com (10.3.20.212) by lhreml711-chm.china.huawei.com (10.201.108.62) with Microsoft SMTP Server (version=TLS1_0, cipher=TLS_ECDHE_RSA_WITH_AES_128_CBC_SHA) id 15.1.1713.5 via Frontend Transport; Tue, 21 May 2019 09:55:31 +0100 Received: from DGGEMM527-MBX.china.huawei.com ([169.254.6.89]) by DGGEMM404-HUB.china.huawei.com ([10.3.20.212]) with mapi id 14.03.0439.000; Tue, 21 May 2019 16:54:55 +0800 From: wangzitao To: Lou Berger , NetMod WG CC: NetMod WG Chairs Thread-Topic: [netmod] WG Last Call: draft-ietf-netmod-artwork-folding-02 Thread-Index: AdUPsr3mT5D2U1RJSu6Xrf1xNvOXLg== Date: Tue, 21 May 2019 08:54:55 +0000 Message-ID: Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: zh-CN X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-originating-ip: [10.134.142.117] Content-Type: 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(PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.9 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.9 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_H2=-0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (1024-bit key) header.d=amazonses.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id ZpHKj9UwnkcW; Tue, 21 May 2019 16:47:49 -0700 (PDT) Received: from a8-31.smtp-out.amazonses.com (a8-31.smtp-out.amazonses.com [54.240.8.31]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id A8D67120058; Tue, 21 May 2019 16:47:48 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; q=dns/txt; c=relaxed/simple; s=6gbrjpgwjskckoa6a5zn6fwqkn67xbtw; d=amazonses.com; t=1558482467; h=From:Message-Id:Content-Type:Mime-Version:Subject:Date:In-Reply-To:Cc:To:References:Feedback-ID; bh=/HOE8r2PxiZoYdRDe/kkGcka7QKBCgS9SAqgmSMinmk=; b=WSZP1jKbzqV8bWOC/cut+8Y+5eSVCuah2hZAHCl3i+LVlBbQ4Os2jtgXczESO0W3 I+BrEh9F6Sgf4MbleASPWYSIqxEQqVsVYDDYsr0LZB1d01+6nPBgUQ8iHrkIEkFqLSy G2DdmCbNUHU5FqBSk83VJfk2Jstahe2AU1HUk5uo= From: Kent Watsen Message-ID: <0100016adccb395c-f363cce5-a39c-439c-bd64-61ab7da7bd44-000000@email.amazonses.com> Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="Apple-Mail=_EF09BE39-EBFD-47EF-BAB4-F82A6C2DFDAD" Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 12.4 \(3445.104.11\)) Date: Tue, 21 May 2019 23:47:47 +0000 In-Reply-To: Cc: "netmod@ietf.org" , "netmod-chairs@ietf.org" To: Lou Berger References: X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.3445.104.11) X-SES-Outgoing: 2019.05.21-54.240.8.31 Feedback-ID: 1.us-east-1.DKmIRZFhhsBhtmFMNikgwZUWVrODEw9qVcPhqJEI2DA=:AmazonSES Archived-At: Subject: Re: [netmod] WG Last Call: draft-ietf-netmod-artwork-folding-02 X-BeenThere: netmod@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: NETMOD WG list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 21 May 2019 23:47:50 -0000 --Apple-Mail=_EF09BE39-EBFD-47EF-BAB4-F82A6C2DFDAD Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Since the response is tepid so far, and the request says "even from = authors"... I've reviewed this document and believe it is ready for publication. Kent // co-author > On May 12, 2019, at 5:19 PM, Lou Berger wrote: >=20 >=20 > All, >=20 > This starts a two-week working group last call for > draft-ietf-netmod-artwork-folding-02 >=20 > The working group last call ends on May 27. > Please send your comments to the working group mailing list. >=20 > Positive comments, e.g., "I've reviewed this document > and believe it is ready for publication", are welcome! > This is useful and important, even from authors. >=20 > Thank you, > NetMod Chairs --Apple-Mail=_EF09BE39-EBFD-47EF-BAB4-F82A6C2DFDAD Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/html; charset=us-ascii
Since the response is tepid so far, and the request says = "even from authors"...

  =   I've reviewed this document and believe it is ready for = publication.

Kent // = co-author


On May = 12, 2019, at 5:19 PM, Lou Berger <lberger@labn.net> wrote:


All,

This starts a two-week = working group last call for
draft-ietf-netmod-artwork-folding-02

The working group last call ends on May 27.
Please send your comments to the working group mailing = list.

Positive comments, e.g., "I've = reviewed this document
and believe it is ready for = publication", are welcome!
This is useful and important, = even from authors.

Thank you,
NetMod Chairs


= --Apple-Mail=_EF09BE39-EBFD-47EF-BAB4-F82A6C2DFDAD-- From nobody Tue May 21 21:16:00 2019 Return-Path: X-Original-To: netmod@ietf.org Delivered-To: netmod@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from ietfa.amsl.com (localhost [IPv6:::1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8B37112008D; Tue, 21 May 2019 21:15:58 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: internet-drafts@ietf.org To: Cc: netmod@ietf.org X-Test-IDTracker: no X-IETF-IDTracker: 6.96.0 Auto-Submitted: auto-generated Precedence: bulk Reply-To: netmod@ietf.org Message-ID: <155849855840.2695.15292504849784403514@ietfa.amsl.com> Date: Tue, 21 May 2019 21:15:58 -0700 Archived-At: Subject: [netmod] I-D Action: draft-ietf-netmod-nmda-diff-01.txt X-BeenThere: netmod@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 List-Id: NETMOD WG list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 22 May 2019 04:15:59 -0000 A New Internet-Draft is available from the on-line Internet-Drafts directories. This draft is a work item of the Network Modeling WG of the IETF. Title : Comparison of NMDA datastores Authors : Alexander Clemm Yingzhen Qu Jeff Tantsura Andy Bierman Filename : draft-ietf-netmod-nmda-diff-01.txt Pages : 15 Date : 2019-05-21 Abstract: This document defines an RPC operation to compare management datastores that comply with the NMDA architecture. The IETF datatracker status page for this draft is: https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-netmod-nmda-diff/ There are also htmlized versions available at: https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-netmod-nmda-diff-01 https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/html/draft-ietf-netmod-nmda-diff-01 A diff from the previous version is available at: https://www.ietf.org/rfcdiff?url2=draft-ietf-netmod-nmda-diff-01 Please note that it may take a couple of minutes from the time of submission until the htmlized version and diff are available at tools.ietf.org. Internet-Drafts are also available by anonymous FTP at: ftp://ftp.ietf.org/internet-drafts/ From nobody Tue May 21 21:24:11 2019 Return-Path: X-Original-To: netmod@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: netmod@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id F1A5312008D for ; Tue, 21 May 2019 21:24:09 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.898 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.898 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 3txkyr2rsQqs for ; Tue, 21 May 2019 21:24:07 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mout.perfora.net (mout.perfora.net [74.208.4.196]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 11BBC12004D for ; Tue, 21 May 2019 21:24:06 -0700 (PDT) Received: from [172.16.0.44] ([73.189.160.186]) by mrelay.perfora.net (mreueus004 [74.208.5.2]) with ESMTPSA (Nemesis) id 1MFc70-1hQaZG2uUg-00H6mQ for ; Wed, 22 May 2019 06:24:04 +0200 References: <155849855872.2695.12584993937973905094.idtracker@ietfa.amsl.com> To: netmod@ietf.org From: Alexander Clemm X-Forwarded-Message-Id: <155849855872.2695.12584993937973905094.idtracker@ietfa.amsl.com> Message-ID: <12a902a5-996e-d4c6-e631-0ca6a267b9c9@clemm.org> Date: Tue, 21 May 2019 21:24:01 -0700 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 10.0; WOW64; rv:52.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/52.3.0 MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: <155849855872.2695.12584993937973905094.idtracker@ietfa.amsl.com> Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="------------B768052C2A50D67A325B6CF3" Content-Language: en-US X-Provags-ID: V03:K1:BoqW/V1yRxOWnySY352irsSSQT9KEK82cyCQc4O4DCOEMofgmz9 nwB5ve19twIUKlka9kVhs9q0PBMLtV+Quq1ZQmxOEjYII9HHcHOnO16lHEdh8fkAU70HlRf 3QPl3vtP9sBYP/bdeLVXJDBu6df6l/NEZsRsaMqASIQrsCTP7V7IgPQQta/kTisI5q5/+KT hT2zadWdNr8VUxxOkwL+Q== X-UI-Out-Filterresults: notjunk:1;V03:K0:okJAgossCrQ=:bHMl3ZOnWm3tgRYjc7hHrm GGqB4DDs617Dtm2JIcEm/ApsIl7LNKid6yruFr7KjfXLpSsaXXhxadeTvaPoodZWUpB9R7M7d 7WYq9947vqMqIDL41mXG2dsP+2sWRXbWXfum4MiuxFtmd8NNF1VZ4lzWAuhUEwXZKF0JPJIll NSRKYrExuyB46TKcPLpvtC+9W9IMIIEUGeaJUc60sp/KdjNPanHcuo6m8B2PMPmwKJxUSEIpH LcjCU/y+SL3mb4j1zmyhAyCeDRAVMqRZvG8VvYIVQAHRS3xzZzecCHJGv8OMoQLuQy7hctoEn F2T37Z9fqIxXkhpd0TS3ugShqCUboYtgHMwI8OHW5gwoKxpDEipwlZT8wTctR11f0lh8HuPqJ Y8tca/76MK3XHZp1oUNnQSxCapiX6MMrsaCTtmjwhqq293LRPYZDIjCyZE3IdlMuR8GnHUIDG t79zKfNiB5UIubTeyv+tDgC0KcQYnoxm62aJKAV4j/OaP2LE/wWQPCjOFDGPlPAfjNC3EmBT1 SCPIRg5IV8GuN+SkbtTuNOl8Id0vvZYehy8CkBCKOkKhHWjWNxjaAJWey0OuCMclqUQO5wj2C qqygpzlHnN7w6GNp9ilOBwHdyIg4CraUNyInOC88gVXUXFESrkle3UXyqdPuyS7LUGMsjwQfV csu9KwkQ+xZeHn3QOsBmxM8vVmlR/S3RWe5qWhN4A8QieotgkOo/e+EOkDhVUfrVnFWDgS4N3 8f9azBmCNHHWzkqBp1L9Q0cvz1fjKt20XrT+RUqVZ3xwadBMY4tXWcHzHwg= Archived-At: Subject: [netmod] Fwd: New Version Notification for draft-ietf-netmod-nmda-diff-01.txt X-BeenThere: netmod@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: NETMOD WG list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 22 May 2019 04:24:10 -0000 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --------------B768052C2A50D67A325B6CF3 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Hello Netmod WG, we have just posted a new revision of draft-ietf-netmod-nmda-diff.  The new revision adds the inclusion of the both the source and target values to the result of the comparison; for this purpose, the YANG-Patch grouping was augmented accordingly. --- Alex -------- Forwarded Message -------- Subject: New Version Notification for draft-ietf-netmod-nmda-diff-01.txt Date: Tue, 21 May 2019 21:15:58 -0700 From: internet-drafts@ietf.org To: Andy Bierman , Yingzhen Qu , Alexander Clemm , Jeff Tantsura A new version of I-D, draft-ietf-netmod-nmda-diff-01.txt has been successfully submitted by Alexander Clemm and posted to the IETF repository. Name: draft-ietf-netmod-nmda-diff Revision: 01 Title: Comparison of NMDA datastores Document date: 2019-05-23 Group: netmod Pages: 15 URL: https://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-ietf-netmod-nmda-diff-01.txt Status: https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-netmod-nmda-diff/ Htmlized: https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-netmod-nmda-diff-01 Htmlized: https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/html/draft-ietf-netmod-nmda-diff Diff: https://www.ietf.org/rfcdiff?url2=draft-ietf-netmod-nmda-diff-01 Abstract: This document defines an RPC operation to compare management datastores that comply with the NMDA architecture. Please note that it may take a couple of minutes from the time of submission until the htmlized version and diff are available at tools.ietf.org. The IETF Secretariat --------------B768052C2A50D67A325B6CF3 Content-Type: text/html; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit

Hello Netmod WG,

we have just posted a new revision of draft-ietf-netmod-nmda-diff.  The new revision adds the inclusion of the both the source and target values to the result of the comparison; for this purpose, the YANG-Patch grouping was augmented accordingly. 

--- Alex


-------- Forwarded Message --------
Subject: New Version Notification for draft-ietf-netmod-nmda-diff-01.txt
Date: Tue, 21 May 2019 21:15:58 -0700
From: internet-drafts@ietf.org
To: Andy Bierman <andy@yumaworks.com>, Yingzhen Qu <yqu@futurewei.com>, Alexander Clemm <ludwig@clemm.org>, Jeff Tantsura <jefftant.ietf@gmail.com> 


A new version of I-D, draft-ietf-netmod-nmda-diff-01.txt
has been successfully submitted by Alexander Clemm and posted to the
IETF repository.

Name:		draft-ietf-netmod-nmda-diff
Revision:	01
Title:		Comparison of NMDA datastores
Document date:	2019-05-23
Group:		netmod
Pages:		15
URL:            https://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-ietf-netmod-nmda-diff-01.txt
Status:         https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-netmod-nmda-diff/
Htmlized:       https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-netmod-nmda-diff-01
Htmlized:       https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/html/draft-ietf-netmod-nmda-diff
Diff:           https://www.ietf.org/rfcdiff?url2=draft-ietf-netmod-nmda-diff-01

Abstract:
   This document defines an RPC operation to compare management
   datastores that comply with the NMDA architecture.

                                                                                  


Please note that it may take a couple of minutes from the time of submission
until the htmlized version and diff are available at tools.ietf.org.

The IETF Secretariat
--------------B768052C2A50D67A325B6CF3-- From nobody Wed May 22 20:11:38 2019 Return-Path: <0100016ae2ac1603-432b860b-ef14-4555-ab13-bec2b15ce3dd-000000@amazonses.watsen.net> X-Original-To: netmod@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: netmod@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 67B8A1201A0 for ; Wed, 22 May 2019 20:11:34 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.899 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.899 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (1024-bit key) header.d=amazonses.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 2yGM5zImd2fi for ; Wed, 22 May 2019 20:11:31 -0700 (PDT) Received: from a8-32.smtp-out.amazonses.com (a8-32.smtp-out.amazonses.com [54.240.8.32]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 7C12A1201EB for ; Wed, 22 May 2019 20:11:31 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; q=dns/txt; c=relaxed/simple; s=6gbrjpgwjskckoa6a5zn6fwqkn67xbtw; d=amazonses.com; t=1558581089; h=From:Message-Id:Content-Type:Mime-Version:Subject:Date:In-Reply-To:Cc:To:References:Feedback-ID; bh=1uXXZuPtz3yxS+K7dy+6HcGFqNCg6PQw6p5swIjhRM0=; b=XHrGKeK6kEIRbyJzj1hS31xo8wNIelTLMzNQokLhbzMRr3Mu+xZKjDeIzysbERcC Cub16FBJHMclaOclirql/hU8zx8MVqsWoh1UZwEj/Uu3y4NY03F2CE+3yTcetQzEGNU 8u5QjXZTSTMNIb4iT9LaXw2TSiyf+5rZ2fWYDA2U= From: Kent Watsen Message-ID: <0100016ae2ac1603-432b860b-ef14-4555-ab13-bec2b15ce3dd-000000@email.amazonses.com> Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="Apple-Mail=_8D25C612-AB21-40E8-8458-10C72E006009" Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 12.4 \(3445.104.11\)) Date: Thu, 23 May 2019 03:11:29 +0000 In-Reply-To: <12a902a5-996e-d4c6-e631-0ca6a267b9c9@clemm.org> Cc: "netmod@ietf.org" To: Alexander Clemm References: <155849855872.2695.12584993937973905094.idtracker@ietfa.amsl.com> <12a902a5-996e-d4c6-e631-0ca6a267b9c9@clemm.org> X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.3445.104.11) X-SES-Outgoing: 2019.05.23-54.240.8.32 Feedback-ID: 1.us-east-1.DKmIRZFhhsBhtmFMNikgwZUWVrODEw9qVcPhqJEI2DA=:AmazonSES Archived-At: Subject: Re: [netmod] New Version Notification for draft-ietf-netmod-nmda-diff-01.txt X-BeenThere: netmod@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: NETMOD WG list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 23 May 2019 03:11:37 -0000 --Apple-Mail=_8D25C612-AB21-40E8-8458-10C72E006009 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii It's great to see activity on this draft. However, authors should = close open items on list before posting updates. Specifically, there = are open items from the adoption-poll, the 103 meeting minutes, and the = emails Andy and Juergen sent on Nov 6. PS: as a contributor, the update seems incomplete without an example = illustrating the new 'source-value' element. Kent // chair > On May 22, 2019, at 12:24 AM, Alexander Clemm = wrote: >=20 > Hello Netmod WG, >=20 > we have just posted a new revision of draft-ietf-netmod-nmda-diff. = The new revision adds the inclusion of the both the source and target = values to the result of the comparison; for this purpose, the YANG-Patch = grouping was augmented accordingly. =20 >=20 > --- Alex >=20 >=20 > -------- Forwarded Message -------- > Subject: New Version Notification for = draft-ietf-netmod-nmda-diff-01.txt > Date: Tue, 21 May 2019 21:15:58 -0700 > From: internet-drafts@ietf.org > To: Andy Bierman , = Yingzhen Qu , Alexander = Clemm , Jeff Tantsura = >=20 > A new version of I-D, draft-ietf-netmod-nmda-diff-01.txt > has been successfully submitted by Alexander Clemm and posted to the > IETF repository. >=20 > Name: draft-ietf-netmod-nmda-diff > Revision: 01 > Title: Comparison of NMDA datastores > Document date: 2019-05-23 > Group: netmod > Pages: 15 > URL: = https://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-ietf-netmod-nmda-diff-01.txt = > Status: = https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-netmod-nmda-diff/ = > Htmlized: = https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-netmod-nmda-diff-01 = > Htmlized: = https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/html/draft-ietf-netmod-nmda-diff = > Diff: = https://www.ietf.org/rfcdiff?url2=3Ddraft-ietf-netmod-nmda-diff-01 = >=20 > Abstract: > This document defines an RPC operation to compare management > datastores that comply with the NMDA architecture. >=20 > = =20 >=20 >=20 > Please note that it may take a couple of minutes from the time of = submission > until the htmlized version and diff are available at tools.ietf.org. >=20 > The IETF Secretariat >=20 > _______________________________________________ > netmod mailing list > netmod@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/netmod --Apple-Mail=_8D25C612-AB21-40E8-8458-10C72E006009 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/html; charset=us-ascii
It's great to see activity on this draft.   However, = authors should close open items on list before posting updates.   = Specifically, there are open items from the adoption-poll, the 103 = meeting minutes, and the emails Andy and Juergen sent on Nov = 6.

PS: as a = contributor, the update seems incomplete without an example illustrating = the new 'source-value' element.

Kent   // chair



On May = 22, 2019, at 12:24 AM, Alexander Clemm <ludwig@clemm.org> = wrote:

=20 =20

Hello= Netmod WG,

we have just posted a new revision of draft-ietf-netmod-nmda-diff.  The new revision adds the = inclusion of the both the source and target values to the result of the comparison; for this purpose, the YANG-Patch grouping was augmented accordingly. 

--- Alex


-------- Forwarded Message -------- =
Subject: New Version Notification for draft-ietf-netmod-nmda-diff-01.txt
Date: Tue, 21 May 2019 21:15:58 -0700
From: internet-drafts@ietf.org
To: Andy Bierman <andy@yumaworks.com>, = Yingzhen Qu <yqu@futurewei.com>, = Alexander Clemm <ludwig@clemm.org>, Jeff = Tantsura <jefftant.ietf@gmail.com> 


A new version of I-D, =
draft-ietf-netmod-nmda-diff-01.txt
has been successfully submitted by Alexander Clemm and posted to the
IETF repository.

Name:		draft-ietf-netmod-nmda-diff
Revision:	01
Title:		Comparison of NMDA datastores
Document date:	2019-05-23
Group:		netmod
Pages:		15
URL:            https://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-ietf-netmod-nmda-diff-01=
.txt
Status:         htt=
ps://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-netmod-nmda-diff/
Htmlized:       https:=
//tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-netmod-nmda-diff-01
Htmlized:       https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/html/draft-ietf-netmod-nmda-diff
Diff:           https://www.ietf.org/rfcdiff?url2=3Ddraft-ietf-netmod-nmda-diff-01

Abstract:
   This document defines an RPC operation to compare management
   datastores that comply with the NMDA architecture.

                                                                         =
        =20


Please note that it may take a couple of minutes from the time of =
submission
until the htmlized version and diff are available at tools.ietf.org.

The IETF Secretariat
_______________________________________________
netmod = mailing list
netmod@ietf.org
https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/netmod

= --Apple-Mail=_8D25C612-AB21-40E8-8458-10C72E006009-- From nobody Fri May 24 04:43:38 2019 Return-Path: X-Original-To: netmod@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: netmod@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9717C12011E; Fri, 24 May 2019 04:43:36 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -4.2 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-4.2 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-2.3, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id ogpAjLzEu1cj; Fri, 24 May 2019 04:43:35 -0700 (PDT) Received: from huawei.com (lhrrgout.huawei.com [185.176.76.210]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 05A681202BC; Fri, 24 May 2019 04:43:35 -0700 (PDT) Received: from lhreml705-cah.china.huawei.com (unknown [172.18.7.108]) by Forcepoint Email with ESMTP id E523B1D067F5BC0CAB9B; Fri, 24 May 2019 12:43:32 +0100 (IST) Received: from LHREML504-MBS.china.huawei.com ([10.201.109.59]) by lhreml705-cah.china.huawei.com ([10.201.108.46]) with mapi id 14.03.0415.000; Fri, 24 May 2019 12:43:30 +0100 From: Italo Busi To: Lou Berger , NetMod WG CC: NetMod WG Chairs Thread-Topic: [netmod] WG Last Call: draft-ietf-netmod-artwork-folding-02 Thread-Index: AQHVCSaY+iCIbhU/PESy/n6QJGx4eqZ6EnSg Date: Fri, 24 May 2019 11:43:30 +0000 Message-ID: <91E3A1BD737FDF4FA14118387FF6766B2774C768@lhreml504-mbs> References: In-Reply-To: Accept-Language: it-IT, en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-originating-ip: [10.203.246.126] Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-CFilter-Loop: Reflected Archived-At: Subject: Re: [netmod] WG Last Call: draft-ietf-netmod-artwork-folding-02 X-BeenThere: netmod@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: NETMOD WG list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 24 May 2019 11:43:37 -0000 SGkgYWxsLA0KDQpJIGhhdmUgcmV2aWV3ZWQgdGhlIGRvY3VtZW50IGFuZCBJIHN1cHBvcnQgaXRz IHB1YmxpY2F0aW9uIGFzIGFuIFJGQw0KDQpJIGhhdmUganVzdCBmZXcgKHJlbGF0ZWQpIG1pbm9y IGNvbW1lbnRzIHdoaWNoIGNhbiBiZSBlYXNpbHkgZml4ZWQgZHVyaW5nIFdHIExDIHByb2Nlc3MN Cg0KMSkgU2VjdGlvbiA3LjIuMSAoRm9sZGluZyBmb3IgU2luZ2xlIEJhY2tzbGFzaCBTdHJhdGVn eSkgc2F5czoNCg0KICAgRW5zdXJlIHRoYXQgdGhlIGRlc2lyZWQgbWF4aW11bSBsaW5lIGxlbmd0 aCBpcyBub3QgbGVzcyB0aGFuIHRoZQ0KICAgbWluaW11bSBoZWFkZXIsIHdoaWNoIGlzIDQ2IGNo YXJhY3RlcnMuICBJZiB0aGUgZGVzaXJlZCBtYXhpbXVtIGxpbmUNCiAgIGxlbmd0aCBpcyBsZXNz IHRoYW4gdGhpcyBtaW5pbXVtLCBleGl0ICh0aGlzIHRleHQtYmFzZWQgY29udGVudA0KICAgY2Fu bm90IGJlIGZvbGRlZCkuDQoNCkhvd2V2ZXIsIHRoZSBmaXJzdCBsaW5lIGRlZmluZWQgaW4gc2Vj dGlvbiA3LjEuMSBpcyBhICI0NS1jaGFyYWN0ZXIgc3RyaW5nIi4NCkkgdGhpbmsgdGhhdCB0aGUg cGFyYWdyYXBoIGJlIGNoYW5nZWQgYXM6DQoNCiAgIEVuc3VyZSB0aGF0IHRoZSBkZXNpcmVkIG1h eGltdW0gbGluZSBsZW5ndGggaXMgbm90IGxlc3MgdGhhbiB0aGUNCiAgIG1pbmltdW0gaGVhZGVy LCB3aGljaCBpcyA0NSBjaGFyYWN0ZXJzLiAgSWYgdGhlIGRlc2lyZWQgbWF4aW11bSBsaW5lDQog ICBsZW5ndGggaXMgbGVzcyB0aGFuIHRoaXMgbWluaW11bSwgZXhpdCAodGhpcyB0ZXh0LWJhc2Vk IGNvbnRlbnQNCiAgIGNhbm5vdCBiZSBmb2xkZWQpLg0KDQoyKSBTZWN0aW9uIDguMi4xIChGb2xk aW5nIGZvciBEb3VibGUgQmFja3NsYXNoIFN0cmF0ZWd5KSBzYXlzOg0KDQoNCiAgIEVuc3VyZSB0 aGF0IHRoZSBkZXNpcmVkIG1heGltdW0gbGluZSBsZW5ndGggaXMgbm90IGxlc3MgdGhhbiB0aGUN CiAgIG1pbmltdW0gaGVhZGVyLCB3aGljaCBpcyA0NSBjaGFyYWN0ZXJzLiAgSWYgdGhlIGRlc2ly ZWQgbWF4aW11bSBsaW5lDQogICBsZW5ndGggaXMgbGVzcyB0aGFuIHRoaXMgbWluaW11bSwgZXhp dCAodGhpcyB0ZXh0LWJhc2VkIGNvbnRlbnQNCiAgIGNhbm5vdCBiZSBmb2xkZWQpLg0KDQpIb3dl dmVyLCB0aGUgZmlyc3QgbGluZSBkZWZpbmVkIGluIHNlY3Rpb24gOC4xLjEgaXMgYSAiNDYtY2hh cmFjdGVyIHN0cmluZyIuDQpJIHRoaW5rIHRoYXQgdGhlIHBhcmFncmFwaCBiZSBjaGFuZ2VkIGFz Og0KDQogICBFbnN1cmUgdGhhdCB0aGUgZGVzaXJlZCBtYXhpbXVtIGxpbmUgbGVuZ3RoIGlzIG5v dCBsZXNzIHRoYW4gdGhlDQogICBtaW5pbXVtIGhlYWRlciwgd2hpY2ggaXMgNDYgY2hhcmFjdGVy cy4gIElmIHRoZSBkZXNpcmVkIG1heGltdW0gbGluZQ0KICAgbGVuZ3RoIGlzIGxlc3MgdGhhbiB0 aGlzIG1pbmltdW0sIGV4aXQgKHRoaXMgdGV4dC1iYXNlZCBjb250ZW50DQogICBjYW5ub3QgYmUg Zm9sZGVkKS4NCg0KQSBxdWVzdGlvbiBmb3IgY2xhcmlmaWNhdGlvbi4gUmVhZGluZyB0aGUgZm9s bG93aW5nIGNvZGUgaW4gQXBwZW5kaXggQToNCg0KICAgICBpZiBbWyAkc3RyYXRlZ3kgLWVxIDIg XV07IHRoZW4NCiAgICAgICBtaW5fc3VwcG9ydGVkPWBleHByICR7I2hkcl90eHRfMn0gKyA4YA0K ICAgICBlbHNlDQogICAgICAgbWluX3N1cHBvcnRlZD1gZXhwciAkeyNoZHJfdHh0XzF9ICsgOGAN CiAgICAgZmkNCg0KSXQgc2VlbXMgdG8gbWUgdGhhdCB0aGUgbWluaW11bSBsZW5ndGhzIGFwcGxp ZWQgYnkgdGhlIGNvZGUgaW4gQXBwZW5kaXggQSBhcmUgYmUgNTMgYW5kIDU0IChpbnN0ZWFkIG9m IDQ1IGFuZCA0NiByZXNwZWN0aXZlbHkpDQoNCklzIG15IHVuZGVyc3RhbmRpbmcgY29ycmVjdD8N Cg0KVGhhbmtzLCBJdGFsbw0KDQotLS0tLU9yaWdpbmFsIE1lc3NhZ2UtLS0tLQ0KRnJvbTogTG91 IEJlcmdlciBbbWFpbHRvOmxiZXJnZXJAbGFibi5uZXRdIA0KU2VudDogZG9tZW5pY2EgMTIgbWFn Z2lvIDIwMTkgMjM6MjANClRvOiBOZXRNb2QgV0cgPG5ldG1vZEBpZXRmLm9yZz4NCkNjOiBOZXRN b2QgV0cgQ2hhaXJzIDxuZXRtb2QtY2hhaXJzQGlldGYub3JnPg0KU3ViamVjdDogW25ldG1vZF0g V0cgTGFzdCBDYWxsOiBkcmFmdC1pZXRmLW5ldG1vZC1hcnR3b3JrLWZvbGRpbmctMDINCg0KDQpB bGwsDQoNClRoaXMgc3RhcnRzIGEgdHdvLXdlZWsgd29ya2luZyBncm91cCBsYXN0IGNhbGwgZm9y DQpkcmFmdC1pZXRmLW5ldG1vZC1hcnR3b3JrLWZvbGRpbmctMDINCg0KVGhlIHdvcmtpbmcgZ3Jv dXAgbGFzdCBjYWxsIGVuZHMgb24gTWF5IDI3Lg0KUGxlYXNlIHNlbmQgeW91ciBjb21tZW50cyB0 byB0aGUgd29ya2luZyBncm91cCBtYWlsaW5nIGxpc3QuDQoNClBvc2l0aXZlIGNvbW1lbnRzLCBl LmcuLCAiSSd2ZSByZXZpZXdlZCB0aGlzIGRvY3VtZW50IGFuZCBiZWxpZXZlIGl0IGlzIHJlYWR5 IGZvciBwdWJsaWNhdGlvbiIsIGFyZSB3ZWxjb21lIQ0KVGhpcyBpcyB1c2VmdWwgYW5kIGltcG9y dGFudCwgZXZlbiBmcm9tIGF1dGhvcnMuDQoNClRoYW5rIHlvdSwNCk5ldE1vZCBDaGFpcnMNCg0K DQoNCg0K From nobody Sat May 25 18:52:34 2019 Return-Path: X-Original-To: netmod@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: netmod@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7D65212006A for ; Sat, 25 May 2019 18:52:32 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -0.552 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-0.552 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_BL_SPAMCOP_NET=1.347, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=no autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id OrLw3yeFTclG for ; Sat, 25 May 2019 18:52:29 -0700 (PDT) Received: from chinatelecom.cn (prt-mail.chinatelecom.cn [42.123.76.223]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id D2451120020 for ; Sat, 25 May 2019 18:52:27 -0700 (PDT) HMM_SOURCE_IP: 172.18.0.92:12370.776271768 HMM_ATTACHE_NUM: 0000 HMM_SOURCE_TYPE: SMTP Received: from clientip-106.121.64.242 (unknown [172.18.0.92]) by chinatelecom.cn (HERMES) with SMTP id 62BCE280097 for ; Sun, 26 May 2019 09:52:12 +0800 (CST) X-189-SAVE-TO-SEND: xiechf.bri@chinatelecom.cn Received: from EHLO ip<106.121.64.242> ([172.18.0.92]) by App0021 with ESMTP id cc0d46fa-e93c-43f1-8006-edeb82542adf for netmod@ietf.org; Sun May 26 09:52:13 2019 X-filter-score: filter<0> X-Real-From: xiechf.bri@chinatelecom.cn X-Receive-IP: 172.18.0.92 X-MEDUSA-Status: 0 Date: Sun, 26 May 2019 09:52:09 +0800 From: "Chongfeng Xie" To: netmod References: , X-Priority: 3 X-Has-Attach: no X-Mailer: Foxmail 7, 2, 8, 379[cn] Mime-Version: 1.0 Message-ID: <201905260952066807194@chinatelecom.cn> Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_001_NextPart563172556521_=----" Archived-At: Subject: Re: [netmod] WG Last Call: draft-ietf-netmod-artwork-folding-02 X-BeenThere: netmod@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: NETMOD WG list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sun, 26 May 2019 01:52:33 -0000 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_001_NextPart563172556521_=---- Content-Type: text/plain; charset="GB2312" Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 DQoNCiBJJ3ZlIHJldmlld2VkIHRoaXMgZG9jdW1lbnQgYW5kIGJlbGlldmUgaXQgaXMgcmVhZHkg Zm9yICBwdWJsaWNhdGlvbi4NCg0KQ2hvbmdmZW5nDQoNCg0KDQoNCreivP7IyzogbmV0bW9kIFtt YWlsdG86bmV0bW9kLWJvdW5jZXNAaWV0Zi5vcmddILT6se0gTG91IEJlcmdlcg0Kt6LLzcqxvOQ6 IDIwMTnE6jXUwjEzyNUgNToyMA0KytW8/sjLOiBOZXRNb2QgV0cgPG5ldG1vZEBpZXRmLm9yZz4N CrOty806IE5ldE1vZCBXRyBDaGFpcnMgPG5ldG1vZC1jaGFpcnNAaWV0Zi5vcmc+DQrW98ziOiBb bmV0bW9kXSBXRyBMYXN0IENhbGw6IGRyYWZ0LWlldGYtbmV0bW9kLWFydHdvcmstZm9sZGluZy0w Mg0KIA0KIA0KQWxsLA0KIA0KVGhpcyBzdGFydHMgYSB0d28td2VlayB3b3JraW5nIGdyb3VwIGxh c3QgY2FsbCBmb3INCmRyYWZ0LWlldGYtbmV0bW9kLWFydHdvcmstZm9sZGluZy0wMg0KIA0KVGhl IHdvcmtpbmcgZ3JvdXAgbGFzdCBjYWxsIGVuZHMgb24gTWF5IDI3Lg0KUGxlYXNlIHNlbmQgeW91 ciBjb21tZW50cyB0byB0aGUgd29ya2luZyBncm91cCBtYWlsaW5nIGxpc3QuDQogDQpQb3NpdGl2 ZSBjb21tZW50cywgZS5nLiwgIkkndmUgcmV2aWV3ZWQgdGhpcyBkb2N1bWVudCBhbmQgYmVsaWV2 ZSBpdCBpcyByZWFkeSBmb3IgcHVibGljYXRpb24iLCBhcmUgd2VsY29tZSENClRoaXMgaXMgdXNl ZnVsIGFuZCBpbXBvcnRhbnQsIGV2ZW4gZnJvbSBhdXRob3JzLg0KIA0KVGhhbmsgeW91LA0KTmV0 TW9kIENoYWlycw0KIA0KIA0KIA0KX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19f X19fX19fX19fX18NCm5ldG1vZCBtYWlsaW5nIGxpc3QNCm5ldG1vZEBpZXRmLm9yZw0KaHR0cHM6 Ly93d3cuaWV0Zi5vcmcvbWFpbG1hbi9saXN0aW5mby9uZXRtb2QNCg== ------=_001_NextPart563172556521_=---- Content-Type: text/html; charset="GB2312" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

On Friday within the TEAS WG, we have discussed an i= ssue which seems generic and therefore agreed to ask for guidelines to the = Netmod WG

=  

In th= e TE YANG model we have defined a tunnel list with a name attribute used as= a key:

=  

     |  +--rw tunnel* [name]<= o:p>

     |  |  +--ro operati= onal-state?          &nbs= p;       identityref

     |  |  +--rw name&nb= sp;            =             &nb= sp;      string

=  

See: = <= span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt">https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-teas= -yang-te-21<= /o:p>

=  

The i= ssue we are facing is how to avoid name collision between configured and ep= hemeral tunnels. In other words, the issue we are trying to address is how = to avoid the client to assign to a configured tunnel a name which have been already assigned by the server to another ep= hemeral tunnel and vice-versa, in particular considering NMDA rules

=  

We be= lieve that the issue is generic and apply to any configured and ephemeral l= ist entries

=  

Has t= his issue been already discussed/resolved in Netmod WG?

=  

If no= t, what is the Netmod WG opinion/suggestion? We are currently considering t= he following option:

=  

   Use a special character for ephemeral n= ames – e.g. such names always are prepended by special character R= 20;#”

   Make the special character changeable b= y configuration – the default can be “#” and user can cha= nge if they desire..

=  

Thank= s, Italo

=  

Italo Busi

Pr= incipal Optical Transport Network Research Enginee= r

Hu= awei Technologies Co., Ltd.

Te= l : +39 345 4721946

Em= ail : italo.busi@huawei.com =

 

This e-mail a= nd its attachments contain confidential information from HUAWEI, which is i= ntended only for the person or entity whose address is listed above. Any use of the information contained herein in any way (i= ncluding, but not limited to, total or partial disclosure, reproduction, or= dissemination) by persons other than the intended recipient(s) is prohibit= ed. If you receive this e-mail in error, please notify the sender by phone or email immediately and delete i= t!

=  

From:= Tarek Saad [mailto:tsaad.net@gmail.com]
Sent: venerd=EC 24 maggio 2019 23:13
To: Igor Bryskin <Igor.Bryskin@huawei.com>; Rakesh Gandhi <= rgandhi@cisco.com>; Xufeng <xufeng.liu.ietf@gmail.com>; Vishnu Pav= an Beeram <vbeeram@juniper.net>; Italo Busi <Italo.Busi@huawei.com= >
Cc: teas@ietf.org
Subject: Discussion on modelling container TE tunnels in YANG

 

The team on “to” list met to discuss thi= s subject topic. Notes from today’s discussion (please add if I misse= d):

 

Name collision between configured and ephemeral t= unnels:

  This is a generic problem in NMDA.=

  How to handle collisions between configured a= nd ephemeral (or auto-created) objects of a list, if the list uses the obje= ct (string based) name as the key?

  Both configured and ephemeral can have the sa= me object name but they are different objects – how to avoid such col= lision.

 Proposed solution:

   Option 1:

   Use a special character for ephemeral n= ames – e.g. such names always are prepended by special character R= 20;#”

   Make the special character changeable b= y configuration – the default can be “#” and user can cha= nge if they desire..

  Others?

AI (Italo): to send email to netmod group.

 

Container TE tunnels discussion:

-       = ;   Container tunnels are grouping of tunnels between s= ame 2 endpoints to share incoming traffic towards the egress

-       = ;   Member tunnels of a container tunnel can be auto-cr= eated/deleted on-demand and controlled by thresholds specified under the co= ntainer

-       = ;   Some attributes may apply on the container tunnel a= nd inherited down to member tunnels of the container

-       = ;   Q: Should model allow member tunnel to override inh= erited attributes from container tunnel?

-       = ;   Q: Should all auto-created member tunnels of a cont= ainer have the same prefix/suffix – i..e prefix/suffix can be configu= rable

 

Regards,

Tarek

 

 

 

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<0100016afa70796c-314cbf69-755f-4ae2-b83a-d53507714c69-000000@amazonses.watsen.net> X-Original-To: netmod@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: netmod@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id B1DE1120043; Mon, 27 May 2019 10:57:22 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.897 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.897 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_NONE=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (1024-bit key) header.d=amazonses.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id bEwL4GXb7Jed; Mon, 27 May 2019 10:57:19 -0700 (PDT) Received: from a8-64.smtp-out.amazonses.com (a8-64.smtp-out.amazonses.com [54.240.8.64]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id E489D120020; Mon, 27 May 2019 10:57:17 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; q=dns/txt; c=relaxed/simple; s=6gbrjpgwjskckoa6a5zn6fwqkn67xbtw; d=amazonses.com; t=1558979836; h=From:Message-Id:Content-Type:Mime-Version:Subject:Date:In-Reply-To:Cc:To:References:Feedback-ID; bh=INa1j6kCqWq/zvemtOFchBzzfEHMJ8pw7XvPw6Os3J4=; b=D0RdzUDg4F+05KgUFQoIWgXYE1HkmtOko7VtpfYc4xAre9kpTRSSCB4hJUmn9pox OrsXMpwpBnqU3s4lATf6xiXgoqmzdWqKD3DINz9nKxLVvxg3GSGvVU85IavA2iNhj9z XpVmvEG+36jBDUmDs1FvhC46/ALL+e0jA+JiiQ2c= From: Kent Watsen Message-ID: <0100016afa70796c-314cbf69-755f-4ae2-b83a-d53507714c69-000000@email.amazonses.com> Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="Apple-Mail=_A72C3B18-4822-4388-B018-E962862A23A1" Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 12.4 \(3445.104.11\)) Date: Mon, 27 May 2019 17:57:16 +0000 In-Reply-To: <91E3A1BD737FDF4FA14118387FF6766B2774C768@lhreml504-mbs> Cc: Lou Berger , "netmod@ietf.org" , "netmod-chairs@ietf.org" To: Italo Busi References: <91E3A1BD737FDF4FA14118387FF6766B2774C768@lhreml504-mbs> X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.3445.104.11) X-SES-Outgoing: 2019.05.27-54.240.8.64 Feedback-ID: 1.us-east-1.DKmIRZFhhsBhtmFMNikgwZUWVrODEw9qVcPhqJEI2DA=:AmazonSES Archived-At: Subject: Re: [netmod] WG Last Call: draft-ietf-netmod-artwork-folding-02 X-BeenThere: netmod@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: NETMOD WG list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 27 May 2019 17:57:23 -0000 --Apple-Mail=_A72C3B18-4822-4388-B018-E962862A23A1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Hi Italo, > 1) Section 7.2.1 (Folding for Single Backslash Strategy) says: >=20 > Ensure that the desired maximum line length is not less than the > minimum header, which is 46 characters. If the desired maximum line > length is less than this minimum, exit (this text-based content > cannot be folded). >=20 > However, the first line defined in section 7.1.1 is a "45-character = string". > I think that the paragraph be changed as: >=20 > Ensure that the desired maximum line length is not less than the > minimum header, which is 45 characters. If the desired maximum line > length is less than this minimum, exit (this text-based content > cannot be folded). Fixed in my local copy. > 2) Section 8.2.1 (Folding for Double Backslash Strategy) says: >=20 >=20 > Ensure that the desired maximum line length is not less than the > minimum header, which is 45 characters. If the desired maximum line > length is less than this minimum, exit (this text-based content > cannot be folded). >=20 > However, the first line defined in section 8.1.1 is a "46-character = string". > I think that the paragraph be changed as: >=20 > Ensure that the desired maximum line length is not less than the > minimum header, which is 46 characters. If the desired maximum line > length is less than this minimum, exit (this text-based content > cannot be folded). Fixed in my local copy. > A question for clarification. Reading the following code in Appendix = A: >=20 > if [[ $strategy -eq 2 ]]; then > min_supported=3D`expr ${#hdr_txt_2} + 8` > else > min_supported=3D`expr ${#hdr_txt_1} + 8` > fi >=20 > It seems to me that the minimum lengths applied by the code in = Appendix A are be 53 and 54 (instead of 45 and 46 respectively) >=20 > Is my understanding correct? The script is not conflicting with the draft, as it does ensure that the = length is not less than the raw header text. Though, to your point, it = adds an additional buffer to further ensure that the header will always = have some '=3D' characters wrapping around the header, for readability, = in the unlikely scenario that such a narrow-width is needed. I could = go either way on this, does anyone else have an opinion? > Thanks, Italo Kent // author --Apple-Mail=_A72C3B18-4822-4388-B018-E962862A23A1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/html; charset=us-ascii

Hi Italo,


1) Section 7.2.1 (Folding for Single = Backslash Strategy) says:

=   Ensure that the desired maximum line length is not less than = the
  minimum header, which is 46 characters. =  If the desired maximum line
  length is = less than this minimum, exit (this text-based content
=   cannot be folded).

However, the = first line defined in section 7.1.1 is a "45-character string".
I think that the paragraph be changed as:

  Ensure that the desired maximum line length is = not less than the
  minimum header, which is 45 = characters.  If the desired maximum line
=   length is less than this minimum, exit (this text-based = content
  cannot be folded).

Fixed = in my local copy.


2) Section 8.2.1 (Folding for Double Backslash Strategy) = says:


  Ensure = that the desired maximum line length is not less than the
=   minimum header, which is 45 characters.  If the desired = maximum line
  length is less than this = minimum, exit (this text-based content
  cannot = be folded).

However, the first line defined = in section 8.1.1 is a "46-character string".
I think that = the paragraph be changed as:

=   Ensure that the desired maximum line length is not less than = the
  minimum header, which is 46 characters. =  If the desired maximum line
  length is = less than this minimum, exit (this text-based content
=   cannot be folded).

Fixed in my local copy.


A question for = clarification. Reading the following code in Appendix A:
    if [[ $strategy -eq 2 ]]; then
      min_supported=3D`expr = ${#hdr_txt_2} + 8`
    else
      min_supported=3D`expr = ${#hdr_txt_1} + 8`
    fi

It seems to me that the minimum lengths = applied by the code in Appendix A are be 53 and 54 (instead of 45 and 46 = respectively)

Is my understanding = correct?

The script is not conflicting with the draft, as = it does ensure that the length is not less than the raw header text. =  Though, to your point, it adds an additional buffer to further = ensure that the header will always have some '=3D' characters wrapping = around the header, for readability, in the unlikely scenario that such a = narrow-width is needed.   I could go either way on this, does = anyone else have an opinion?



Thanks, Italo

Kent // author


= --Apple-Mail=_A72C3B18-4822-4388-B018-E962862A23A1-- From nobody Mon May 27 12:28:26 2019 Return-Path: <0100016afac3dceb-3efc8938-6954-48c7-a362-e92c08400df0-000000@amazonses.watsen.net> X-Original-To: netmod@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: netmod@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8641B120094; Mon, 27 May 2019 12:28:24 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.898 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.898 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_NONE=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (1024-bit key) header.d=amazonses.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id sOnv80jIfR7F; Mon, 27 May 2019 12:28:22 -0700 (PDT) Received: from a8-64.smtp-out.amazonses.com (a8-64.smtp-out.amazonses.com [54.240.8.64]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 9A1C512003F; Mon, 27 May 2019 12:28:22 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; q=dns/txt; c=relaxed/simple; s=6gbrjpgwjskckoa6a5zn6fwqkn67xbtw; d=amazonses.com; t=1558985301; h=Content-Type:Mime-Version:Subject:From:In-Reply-To:Date:Cc:Content-Transfer-Encoding:Message-Id:References:To:Feedback-ID; bh=KGoH/bgOO0vNG9LFmJJONnRjGlOsMba2q+eREZDlj6k=; b=a8VX/0vUSccHi/YkjGUs04qQ6eQTr31eg/gOYKDjtN8875rO7cMyF6c9Z7kYg8St hbGHK9p5UUFJDUnU1nrk1BmAsiIvXPXQYdw9RJJwLcGF1LLSTEpxFp8cQmoLHq+KTUl YHuQmA0peaiy1dJSYR40v7OHMbxyDFt/NseHp6jc= Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 12.4 \(3445.104.11\)) From: Kent Watsen In-Reply-To: <20190527.130412.1876961670794351457.mbj@tail-f.com> Date: Mon, 27 May 2019 19:28:21 +0000 Cc: Lou Berger , "netmod@ietf.org" , "netmod-chairs@ietf.org" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Message-ID: <0100016afac3dceb-3efc8938-6954-48c7-a362-e92c08400df0-000000@email.amazonses.com> References: <20190527.130412.1876961670794351457.mbj@tail-f.com> To: Martin Bjorklund X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.3445.104.11) X-SES-Outgoing: 2019.05.27-54.240.8.64 Feedback-ID: 1.us-east-1.DKmIRZFhhsBhtmFMNikgwZUWVrODEw9qVcPhqJEI2DA=:AmazonSES Archived-At: Subject: Re: [netmod] WG Last Call: draft-ietf-netmod-artwork-folding-02 X-BeenThere: netmod@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: NETMOD WG list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 27 May 2019 19:28:25 -0000 Hi Martin, Thanks for your review. > I have reviewed draft-ietf-netmod-artwork-folding-02, and here are my > comments: >=20 >=20 > o 6 >=20 > Perhaps: >=20 > OLD: >=20 > begins at the first non- > whitespace character on the following line. >=20 > NEW: >=20 > begins at the first character that is not a space character (' ') > on the following line. Updated in my local copy. > The algorithm talks specifically about space (' ') rather than > whitespace. True and, FWIW, this was the only instance of the word "whitespace" in = the document. However, I wonder if there might be an issue lurking here. Already the = algorithm eliminates the potential for TAB, and implicitly eliminates NL = and CR through the use of the word "line", but I wonder if there are = other characters that we wish to skip over... e.g. vertical tab? > o 6.1 >=20 > s/is exists/exists/ Fixed. > o 6.1 / 6.2 >=20 > 6.2 says (correctly!): >=20 > It is RECOMMENDED for implementations to first attempt to fold > content using the single backslash strategy and, only in the = unlikely > event that it cannot fold the input or the folding logic is unable = to > cope with a contingency occurring on the desired folding column, = then > fallback to the double backslash strategy. >=20 > But 6.1 says about the Single Backslash Strategy: >=20 > automation implementations are likely to encounter scenarios that > will produce errors without special care >=20 >=20 > So it 6.1 thinks it is likely that SBS won't work, but 6.2 says it > is unlikely. IMO 6.2 is correct - it is extremely unlikely that SBS > won't work. s/are likely to/may/ > o 7.1.2 / 7.2 >=20 > I would prefer if the format is defined with descriptive text, > rather than with an algorithm. It is the end result that matters, > not which algorithm an implementation uses to get to the result. >=20 > I suggest the algorithm is moved to an appendix, and/or a sentence > is added that explains that the algorithm is just an example. OLD: This section describes the process for folding and unfolding long lines when they are encountered in a single instance of text content. It is assumed that another process inserts/extracts the individual text content instances to/from an Internet-Draft or RFC. For example, the `xiax` utility [xiax] does this. NEW: This section describes a process for folding and unfolding long lines when they are encountered in text content. The steps are complete, but implementations MAY achieve the same result in other ways. When a larger document contains multiple instances of text content that may need to be folded or unfolded, it is assumed that another process inserts/extracts the individual text content instances to/ from the larger document prior to utilizing the algorithms described in this section. For example, the `xiax` utility [xiax] does this. > Also expand the descriptive text in 7.1.2; I think that the text in > section 6 is probably enough. However, there are some important > details buried in the desciption of the algorithm; specifically the > cases where SBS can't be used. I looked at this for a little while, but didn't see how it could be = improved. Can you provide some text? > o 7.2.1 >=20 > I don't understand why there is a min limit of 46 characters for > folding to work. If the only reason is for the non-normative script > to be able to center the header line, then I think this limitation > should be removed. (I would even prefer less flexibility in the > header line syntax...) This is because we never defined how to handle folding the header = itself. I wrote about this a while back and no-one seemed bothered by = the limitation. The effort/value ration isn't there. The need to fold = less than 69-characters is unlikely, and less than 46-characters seems = even more so. > o 7.2.1 / 7.2.2 >=20 > I don't think the text should assume that folding/unfolding is > "automated". Both sections clearly state that authors may do the equivalent manually, = or do you mean that the word "automated" in these sections isn't adding = much value and could/should be removed? > o 7.2.1 >=20 > Perhaps add to bullet 1: >=20 > If no such location can be found, then exit (this text content > cannot be folded) Added in my local copy. >=20 >=20 > o 7.2.2 >=20 > s/maximum../maximum./ Fixed (in both locations) > o Appendix A >=20 > Consider using the command "tempfile" instead of /tmp/wip* Used `mktemp -d` instead. Kent // author From nobody Mon May 27 23:55:46 2019 Return-Path: X-Original-To: netmod@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: netmod@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 18C57120112 for ; Mon, 27 May 2019 23:55:45 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.897 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.897 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, SPF_NONE=0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id KP9Z7AT7O1PH for ; Mon, 27 May 2019 23:55:42 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mout.perfora.net (mout.perfora.net [74.208.4.196]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 1683D120119 for ; Mon, 27 May 2019 23:55:41 -0700 (PDT) Received: from [10.8.1.12] ([198.8.81.52]) by mrelay.perfora.net (mreueus004 [74.208.5.2]) with ESMTPSA (Nemesis) id 1MILw8-1hQ2N51eho-00EPNZ; Tue, 28 May 2019 08:55:39 +0200 To: Kent Watsen Cc: "netmod@ietf.org" References: <155849855872.2695.12584993937973905094.idtracker@ietfa.amsl.com> <12a902a5-996e-d4c6-e631-0ca6a267b9c9@clemm.org> <0100016ae2ac1603-432b860b-ef14-4555-ab13-bec2b15ce3dd-000000@email.amazonses.com> From: Alexander Clemm Message-ID: <40e18e04-fdc5-974c-06c3-87af0da885cf@clemm.org> Date: Mon, 27 May 2019 23:55:34 -0700 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 10.0; WOW64; rv:52.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/52.3.0 MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: <0100016ae2ac1603-432b860b-ef14-4555-ab13-bec2b15ce3dd-000000@email.amazonses.com> Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="------------2730AA14AB435DE06F5D4CE2" Content-Language: en-US X-Provags-ID: V03:K1:Mbs9lzsj8sGBvl5eq9NGIw1kUDbDv8Fg4DhIKTCdT/Vv04F4EI+ 7d8tWCqGeD5Ea5heDIq5bhuf/B/cKdSmi8GSRT35gklMyAE5MmSCrbiODnJZjOHhCA5rxLX 2JVGtf2MP9Ly1MlTunt58zXurj3OVDEA0bfAJ7CbdIjv+LfUDo6CQ8Q5fGVw8u9lssHHHsm /I5aaYTAJO0pf/qG1TOVA== X-UI-Out-Filterresults: notjunk:1;V03:K0:SwtZyWrKTUU=:Frw26LZpURT9te2+vYTlaS U7ASLF4cWRm319QtfbClGUufIKhTJmoBrOCvEE21ko8iOOBcMa7csa+eeAo0CqAVEcic6FKfL 9aPp4GBQxR0uMtMTNbhsrSPV4obO07am1mS1KYjLUOPfdq4tbvRVt4dY1xUVnSi6roniEWZjX MUC/Xipt+o+/zIVIcr8/ozDzm+byBD30xR2hq07nYzA0o/HT6vIDcOMSMoTN1ZkF5+odE/ZgF vVnn/g5irDp49aHUHQea3GifQw7z+Chw/kLW4AIE+9UPFgrhY8ZuWPr4wEvVvA6soE7+8sINw uXtS+n1lGgf8vrqF4xOK5NWLzF1Oj0S9Uq8tMI5Q2dyynZfXaR8RIJJ5Pq3Qe3mdKx9Y/xLkp 2g30pNfBJIZIngZJ3gKxuX2rtdOkmsAOB7lV5I17dNz/G+VJEn81WVCPA1F6ngKMLRUM3lVoQ QjiC1oDgYR52szLnQt5+/ihoTmFNn4K8BtII7+fKQxdOt4m11jQYADpzynzAI1UdHDnKv2ZQ9 5KFmnEOszy9/tWb7+6um9uMeVmAhKeaBqzSpr1ls1jxs7JmNwAH85yqT6r5DYpcC9bsT2qRMW 0Dj+1X04a6BZd5rtrxXWvPvWl2BQ9JzxbtekP+dzWP8Kn2VUx5g80VerxECciNxJZ9q7uyL8s vKNiXX1y2VrKjaN9WayOAKvaxabOmwh8PElmF5NPzXvpivH/TegG1nSTJJyu3Bny3uQZ4Qo9O 2QkSiFTwODYGIShNhbaNjrFDqzBtid2eHXlfeURgO1gx8P5/+hWn2Pj1olY= Archived-At: Subject: Re: [netmod] New Version Notification for draft-ietf-netmod-nmda-diff-01.txt X-BeenThere: netmod@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: NETMOD WG list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 28 May 2019 06:55:45 -0000 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --------------2730AA14AB435DE06F5D4CE2 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=windows-1252; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Hi Kent, thank you for your comments! Regarding example, yes, I agree, we need to add examples and will do so in the next revision. Per your suggestion, I looked again at the 103 minutes. They do state that we should come up with a single format, hence the option to select from different formats has been removed.    Now, which specific format to select is the topic of the discussion items in the Juergen's and Andy's emails from Nov 6.  This concerned the question whether the diff was to be computed against the tree, vs a textual representation of the tree, and if the latter, what the serialization would be. If I interpret the sentiment in those emails correctly, the sentiment is that the diff should be computed against the tree.  This is what is reflected in the current revision; the representation of differences leverages YANG-Patch (RFC 8072) and the "source-value" element extrapolates this to include the source values.  Of course, we can consider alternatives; this is one proposal. The other item that was raised concerns whether to include diff'ing on metadata.  Whether this is needed probably requires further discussion.  Personally, I think this is a useful feature but it has not been included in this revision. --- Alex On 5/22/2019 8:11 PM, Kent Watsen wrote: > It's great to see activity on this draft.   However, authors should > close open items on list before posting updates.   Specifically, there > are open items from the adoption-poll, the 103 meeting minutes, and > the emails Andy and Juergen sent on Nov 6. > > PS: as a contributor, the update seems incomplete without an example > illustrating the new 'source-value' element. > > Kent   // chair > > > >> On May 22, 2019, at 12:24 AM, Alexander Clemm > > wrote: >> >> Hello Netmod WG, >> >> we have just posted a new revision of draft-ietf-netmod-nmda-diff.  >> The new revision adds the inclusion of the both the source and target >> values to the result of the comparison; for this purpose, the >> YANG-Patch grouping was augmented accordingly. >> >> --- Alex >> >> >> -------- Forwarded Message -------- >> Subject: New Version Notification for >> draft-ietf-netmod-nmda-diff-01.txt >> Date: Tue, 21 May 2019 21:15:58 -0700 >> From: internet-drafts@ietf.org >> To: Andy Bierman , Yingzhen Qu >> , Alexander Clemm , Jeff >> Tantsura >> >> >> >> A new version of I-D, draft-ietf-netmod-nmda-diff-01.txt >> has been successfully submitted by Alexander Clemm and posted to the >> IETF repository. >> >> Name: draft-ietf-netmod-nmda-diff >> Revision: 01 >> Title: Comparison of NMDA datastores >> Document date: 2019-05-23 >> Group: netmod >> Pages: 15 >> URL:https://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-ietf-netmod-nmda-diff-01.txt >> Status:https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-netmod-nmda-diff/ >> Htmlized:https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-netmod-nmda-diff-01 >> Htmlized:https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/html/draft-ietf-netmod-nmda-diff >> Diff:https://www.ietf.org/rfcdiff?url2=draft-ietf-netmod-nmda-diff-01 >> >> Abstract: >> This document defines an RPC operation to compare management >> datastores that comply with the NMDA architecture. >> >> >> >> >> Please note that it may take a couple of minutes from the time of submission >> until the htmlized version and diff are available attools.ietf.org . >> >> The IETF Secretariat >> >> _______________________________________________ >> netmod mailing list >> netmod@ietf.org >> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/netmod > --------------2730AA14AB435DE06F5D4CE2 Content-Type: text/html; charset=windows-1252 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit

Hi Kent,

thank you for your comments! 

Regarding example, yes, I agree, we need to add examples and will do so in the next revision.

Per your suggestion, I looked again at the 103 minutes. They do state that we should come up with a single format, hence the option to select from different formats has been removed.    Now, which specific format to select is the topic of the discussion items in the Juergen's and Andy's emails from Nov 6.  This concerned the question whether the diff was to be computed against the tree, vs a textual representation of the tree, and if the latter, what the serialization would be. If I interpret the sentiment in those emails correctly, the sentiment is that the diff should be computed against the tree.  This is what is reflected in the current revision; the representation of differences leverages YANG-Patch (RFC 8072) and the "source-value" element extrapolates this to include the source values.  Of course, we can consider alternatives; this is one proposal. 

The other item that was raised concerns whether to include diff'ing on metadata.  Whether this is needed probably requires further discussion.  Personally, I think this is a useful feature but it has not been included in this revision. 

--- Alex


On 5/22/2019 8:11 PM, Kent Watsen wrote:
It's great to see activity on this draft.   However, authors should close open items on list before posting updates.   Specifically, there are open items from the adoption-poll, the 103 meeting minutes, and the emails Andy and Juergen sent on Nov 6.

PS: as a contributor, the update seems incomplete without an example illustrating the new 'source-value' element.

Kent   // chair



On May 22, 2019, at 12:24 AM, Alexander Clemm <ludwig@clemm.org> wrote:

Hello Netmod WG,

we have just posted a new revision of draft-ietf-netmod-nmda-diff.  The new revision adds the inclusion of the both the source and target values to the result of the comparison; for this purpose, the YANG-Patch grouping was augmented accordingly. 

--- Alex


-------- Forwarded Message --------
Subject: New Version Notification for draft-ietf-netmod-nmda-diff-01.txt
Date: Tue, 21 May 2019 21:15:58 -0700
From: internet-drafts@ietf.org
To: Andy Bierman <andy@yumaworks.com>, Yingzhen Qu <yqu@futurewei.com>, Alexander Clemm <ludwig@clemm.org>, Jeff Tantsura <jefftant.ietf@gmail.com> 


A new version of I-D, draft-ietf-netmod-nmda-diff-01.txt
has been successfully submitted by Alexander Clemm and posted to the
IETF repository.

Name:		draft-ietf-netmod-nmda-diff
Revision:	01
Title:		Comparison of NMDA datastores
Document date:	2019-05-23
Group:		netmod
Pages:		15
URL:            https://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-ietf-netmod-nmda-diff-01.txt
Status:         https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-netmod-nmda-diff/
Htmlized:       https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-netmod-nmda-diff-01
Htmlized:       https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/html/draft-ietf-netmod-nmda-diff
Diff:           https://www.ietf.org/rfcdiff?url2=draft-ietf-netmod-nmda-diff-01

Abstract:
   This document defines an RPC operation to compare management
   datastores that comply with the NMDA architecture.

                                                                                  


Please note that it may take a couple of minutes from the time of submission
until the htmlized version and diff are available at tools.ietf.org.

The IETF Secretariat
_______________________________________________
netmod mailing list
netmod@ietf.org
https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/netmod


--------------2730AA14AB435DE06F5D4CE2-- From nobody Tue May 28 06:33:46 2019 Return-Path: X-Original-To: netmod@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: netmod@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id B229D120234; Tue, 28 May 2019 06:33:37 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -4.199 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-4.199 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-2.3, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id H3ALGBHz37r4; Tue, 28 May 2019 06:33:34 -0700 (PDT) Received: from huawei.com (lhrrgout.huawei.com [185.176.76.210]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 2AF6512023D; Tue, 28 May 2019 06:33:34 -0700 (PDT) Received: from lhreml702-cah.china.huawei.com (unknown [172.18.7.108]) by Forcepoint Email with ESMTP id 0F584EF22169C0C19441; Tue, 28 May 2019 14:33:32 +0100 (IST) Received: from LHREML504-MBS.china.huawei.com ([10.201.109.59]) by lhreml702-cah.china.huawei.com ([10.201.108.43]) with mapi id 14.03.0415.000; Tue, 28 May 2019 14:33:31 +0100 From: Italo Busi To: Kent Watsen CC: Lou Berger , "netmod@ietf.org" , "netmod-chairs@ietf.org" Thread-Topic: [netmod] WG Last Call: draft-ietf-netmod-artwork-folding-02 Thread-Index: AQHVCSaY+iCIbhU/PESy/n6QJGx4eqZ6EnSggAU1uACAAVcTMA== Date: Tue, 28 May 2019 13:33:31 +0000 Message-ID: <91E3A1BD737FDF4FA14118387FF6766B2774DA44@lhreml504-mbs> References: <91E3A1BD737FDF4FA14118387FF6766B2774C768@lhreml504-mbs> <0100016afa70796c-314cbf69-755f-4ae2-b83a-d53507714c69-000000@email.amazonses.com> In-Reply-To: <0100016afa70796c-314cbf69-755f-4ae2-b83a-d53507714c69-000000@email.amazonses.com> Accept-Language: it-IT, en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: yes X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-originating-ip: [10.203.246.126] Content-Type: multipart/related; boundary="_004_91E3A1BD737FDF4FA14118387FF6766B2774DA44lhreml504mbs_"; type="multipart/alternative" MIME-Version: 1.0 X-CFilter-Loop: Reflected Archived-At: Subject: Re: [netmod] WG Last Call: draft-ietf-netmod-artwork-folding-02 X-BeenThere: netmod@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: NETMOD WG list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 28 May 2019 13:33:45 -0000 --_004_91E3A1BD737FDF4FA14118387FF6766B2774DA44lhreml504mbs_ Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="_000_91E3A1BD737FDF4FA14118387FF6766B2774DA44lhreml504mbs_" --_000_91E3A1BD737FDF4FA14118387FF6766B2774DA44lhreml504mbs_ Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hi Kent, Thanks for your reply For what I am concerned, the clarification you have provided is sufficient = to me (no need to change the code) You might also consider adding similar text at the beginning of Appendix A,= if you think this helps. Something along the line: The script forces the desired maximum line length to be a bit longer than t= he raw header text defined in sections 7 and 8, to further ensure that the = header will always have some '=3D' characters wrapping around the header, f= or readability, in the unlikely scenario that such a narrow-width is needed= . Italo Italo Busi Principal Optical Transport Network Research Engineer Huawei Technologies Co., Ltd. Tel : +39 345 4721946 Email : italo.busi@huawei.com [cid:image003.png@01D5156A.B2C94830] This e-mail and its attachments contain confidential information from HUAWE= I, which is intended only for the person or entity whose address is listed = above. Any use of the information contained herein in any way (including, b= ut not limited to, total or partial disclosure, reproduction, or disseminat= ion) by persons other than the intended recipient(s) is prohibited. If you = receive this e-mail in error, please notify the sender by phone or email im= mediately and delete it! From: Kent Watsen [mailto:kent@watsen.net] Sent: luned=EC 27 maggio 2019 19:57 To: Italo Busi Cc: Lou Berger ; netmod@ietf.org; netmod-chairs@ietf.org Subject: Re: [netmod] WG Last Call: draft-ietf-netmod-artwork-folding-02 Hi Italo, 1) Section 7.2.1 (Folding for Single Backslash Strategy) says: Ensure that the desired maximum line length is not less than the minimum header, which is 46 characters. If the desired maximum line length is less than this minimum, exit (this text-based content cannot be folded). However, the first line defined in section 7.1.1 is a "45-character string"= . I think that the paragraph be changed as: Ensure that the desired maximum line length is not less than the minimum header, which is 45 characters. If the desired maximum line length is less than this minimum, exit (this text-based content cannot be folded). Fixed in my local copy. 2) Section 8.2.1 (Folding for Double Backslash Strategy) says: Ensure that the desired maximum line length is not less than the minimum header, which is 45 characters. If the desired maximum line length is less than this minimum, exit (this text-based content cannot be folded). However, the first line defined in section 8.1.1 is a "46-character string"= . I think that the paragraph be changed as: Ensure that the desired maximum line length is not less than the minimum header, which is 46 characters. If the desired maximum line length is less than this minimum, exit (this text-based content cannot be folded). Fixed in my local copy. A question for clarification. Reading the following code in Appendix A: if [[ $strategy -eq 2 ]]; then min_supported=3D`expr ${#hdr_txt_2} + 8` else min_supported=3D`expr ${#hdr_txt_1} + 8` fi It seems to me that the minimum lengths applied by the code in Appendix A a= re be 53 and 54 (instead of 45 and 46 respectively) Is my understanding correct? The script is not conflicting with the draft, as it does ensure that the le= ngth is not less than the raw header text. Though, to your point, it adds = an additional buffer to further ensure that the header will always have som= e '=3D' characters wrapping around the header, for readability, in the unli= kely scenario that such a narrow-width is needed. I could go either way o= n this, does anyone else have an opinion? Thanks, Italo Kent // author --_000_91E3A1BD737FDF4FA14118387FF6766B2774DA44lhreml504mbs_ Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

Hi Kent,<= o:p>

 

Thanks for your reply

 

For what I am concerned, the clarific= ation you have provided is sufficient to me (no need to change the code)

 

You might also consider adding simila= r text at the beginning of Appendix A, if you think this helps. Something a= long the line:

 

The script forces the d= esired maximum line length to be a bit longer than the raw header text defi= ned in sections 7 and 8, to further ensure that the header will always have= some '=3D' characters wrapping around the header, for readability, in the unlikely scenario that such a narrow-w= idth is needed.

 

Italo

 

Italo Busi

Pr= incipal Optical Transport Network Research Enginee= r

Hu= awei Technologies Co., Ltd.<= o:p>

Te= l : +39 345 4721946=

Em= ail : italo.busi@huawei.com =

 

This e-mail a= nd its attachments contain confidential information from HUAWEI, which is i= ntended only for the person or entity whose address is listed above. Any use of the information contained herein in any way (i= ncluding, but not limited to, total or partial disclosure, reproduction, or= dissemination) by persons other than the intended recipient(s) is prohibit= ed. If you receive this e-mail in error, please notify the sender by phone or email immediately and delete i= t!

 

From: Kent Watsen [mailto:kent@watse= n.net]
Sent: luned=EC 27 maggio 2019 19:57
To: Italo Busi <Italo.Busi@huawei.com>
Cc: Lou Berger <lberger@labn.net>; netmod@ietf.org; netmod-cha= irs@ietf.org
Subject: Re: [netmod] WG Last Call: draft-ietf-netmod-artwork-foldin= g-02

 

 

Hi Italo,

 



1) Section 7.2.1 (Folding for Single Backslash Strat= egy) says:

  Ensure that the desired maximum line length is not less than th= e
  minimum header, which is 46 characters.  If the desired ma= ximum line
  length is less than this minimum, exit (this text-based content=
  cannot be folded).

However, the first line defined in section 7.1.1 is a "45-character st= ring".
I think that the paragraph be changed as:

  Ensure that the desired maximum line length is not less than th= e
  minimum header, which is 45 characters.  If the desired ma= ximum line
  length is less than this minimum, exit (this text-based content=
  cannot be folded).

 

Fixed in my local copy.

 



2) Section 8.2.1 (Folding for Double Backslash Strat= egy) says:


  Ensure that the desired maximum line length is not less than th= e
  minimum header, which is 45 characters.  If the desired ma= ximum line
  length is less than this minimum, exit (this text-based content=
  cannot be folded).

However, the first line defined in section 8.1.1 is a "46-character st= ring".
I think that the paragraph be changed as:

  Ensure that the desired maximum line length is not less than th= e
  minimum header, which is 46 characters.  If the desired ma= ximum line
  length is less than this minimum, exit (this text-based content=
  cannot be folded).

 

Fixed in my local copy.

 



A question for clarification. Reading the following = code in Appendix A:

    if [[ $strategy -eq 2 ]]; then
      min_supported=3D`expr ${#hdr_txt_2} = 3; 8`
    else
      min_supported=3D`expr ${#hdr_txt_1} = 3; 8`
    fi

It seems to me that the minimum lengths applied by the code in Appendix A a= re be 53 and 54 (instead of 45 and 46 respectively)

Is my understanding correct?

 

The script is not conflicting with the draft, as it = does ensure that the length is not less than the raw header text.  Tho= ugh, to your point, it adds an additional buffer to further ensure that the= header will always have some '=3D' characters wrapping around the header, for readability, in the unlikely scenario that= such a narrow-width is needed.   I could go either way on this, does = anyone else have an opinion?

 

 



Thanks, Italo

 

Kent // author

 

 

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X-OriginatorOrg: cisco.com X-Outbound-SMTP-Client: 173.36.7.17, xch-aln-007.cisco.com X-Outbound-Node: rcdn-core-10.cisco.com Archived-At: Subject: Re: [netmod] WG Last Call: draft-ietf-netmod-artwork-folding-02 X-BeenThere: netmod@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: NETMOD WG list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 28 May 2019 13:54:19 -0000 Hi, I've read this document and have some minor comments on it.=20 1) Abstract: I wasn't sure whether the abstract is still entirely accurate, given that t= he document describes two strategies rather than one, only one of those str= ategies is time proven ('\'), and only one of those strategies works on *an= y* text-based content ('\\'). 2) Section 4. Goals: Is one of the goals to *exactly* reproduce the input text to the folding al= gorithm? If so, this might be worth explicitly stating (e.g. because of th= e whitespace handling when using the single backslash strategy). 3) Section 5.1 Nit: will work -> works. 4) Section 5.2, 4th paragraph about functions. I'm not sure this paragraph really adds anything to the document, so I woul= d suggest removing it. E.g. does this means that we should use YANG groupi= ngs to avoid line length indentation issues, if so, I would question whethe= r that makes the resulting YANG model more readable. 5) Section 5.2, last paragraph. I think that the RECOMMENDED is perhaps a bit strong, hence I would prefer = "suggested" or "encouraged" over "RECOMMENDED". I think that some/many of = the input formats do have ways that the input can be modified such that fol= ding isn't required, but I'm not sure that we necessarily advocate that sho= uld always be done. 6) 7.2.1. '\' folding algorithm: It should also check if the line contains more than "max line length space"= characters and if so it cannot be folded using this strategy. 7) 8.2.1. '\\' folding algorithm, 6th paragraph: Does this have to abort if it finds a '\' character at the end of the line,= and start at next? I think that this could still be handled by folding ag= ain at that same point, which when unfolded should go back to the same inpu= t again. Of course, such a tool might also warn that the input might alrea= dy be folded input. One of the advantages of the '\\' method is that it sh= ould be able to deterministically work on any input. --- Final comment, and it is probably a bit late for this, but rather than havi= ng two separate schemes, I have one quick idea for merging the two. The idea is this: The principle difference between the two schemes is how = they treat whitespace. So, the suggestion is to make the '\' on the follow= ing line optional, so it is *only* used to separate insignificant whitespac= e from significant whitespace. When unfolding, rather that only consuming = leading whitespace following a fold, it would also optionally consume the '= \' if it immediately followed the leading whitespace AND it also followed b= y a whitespace character. Perhaps best illustrated with a short contrived example: "This is some example text that I want to fold whilst preserving whitesp= ace" If I want to (approximately) fold this text around column 21, then I could = fold it to this (using the existing '\' scheme): "This is some \ example test that \ I want to fold whilst \ preserving whitespace" Alternatively, I could fold the first line to this instead, separating sign= ificant whitespace from the insignificant whitespace: "This is some example \ \ text that I want to \ fold, whilst preserving \ whitespace" Thanks, Rob > -----Original Message----- > From: netmod On Behalf Of Lou Berger > Sent: 12 May 2019 22:20 > To: NetMod WG > Cc: NetMod WG Chairs > Subject: [netmod] WG Last Call: draft-ietf-netmod-artwork-folding-02 >=20 >=20 > All, >=20 > This starts a two-week working group last call for > draft-ietf-netmod-artwork-folding-02 >=20 > The working group last call ends on May 27. > Please send your comments to the working group mailing list. >=20 > Positive comments, e.g., "I've reviewed this document and believe it is > ready for publication", are welcome! > This is useful and important, even from authors. >=20 > Thank you, > NetMod Chairs >=20 >=20 >=20 > _______________________________________________ > netmod mailing list > netmod@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/netmod From nobody Tue May 28 08:36:56 2019 Return-Path: <0100016aff1640f0-a301a70e-ecae-4754-84d1-12170d5b73fd-000000@amazonses.watsen.net> X-Original-To: netmod@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: netmod@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 399AF120234; Tue, 28 May 2019 08:36:54 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.897 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.897 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_NONE=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (1024-bit key) header.d=amazonses.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id z8EPpbA-w7SZ; Tue, 28 May 2019 08:36:51 -0700 (PDT) Received: from a8-64.smtp-out.amazonses.com (a8-64.smtp-out.amazonses.com [54.240.8.64]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 8192912022E; Tue, 28 May 2019 08:36:51 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; q=dns/txt; c=relaxed/simple; s=6gbrjpgwjskckoa6a5zn6fwqkn67xbtw; d=amazonses.com; t=1559057809; h=From:Message-Id:Content-Type:Mime-Version:Subject:Date:In-Reply-To:Cc:To:References:Feedback-ID; bh=aAYVrwhrn/cXGrQdbd1z2ZUHPwlvz57nb/kNClM2u/4=; b=hjRlM6sOQuNBup+8CIxwGWP6wR/b/ceOIbeiw13x4OzkLcBo3Er4tqcYuakev92w uY+c32+Q3WtTuEeOutM6QLZsOdlPB+5H2jQYLok5OYxpqqtWNEnHnqcwxyzVlYZRmiS Vi6IdDTLl58WWLfxHKo7yCELhVbeQnnuCgMWBOoA= From: Kent Watsen Message-ID: <0100016aff1640f0-a301a70e-ecae-4754-84d1-12170d5b73fd-000000@email.amazonses.com> Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="Apple-Mail=_A6C48A9A-2A5B-4522-B0AE-1AD748B6312A" Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 12.4 \(3445.104.11\)) Date: Tue, 28 May 2019 15:36:49 +0000 In-Reply-To: Cc: "netmod@ietf.org" , "draft-ietf-netmod-artwork-folding@ietf.org" To: "Rob Wilton (rwilton)" References: X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.3445.104.11) X-SES-Outgoing: 2019.05.28-54.240.8.64 Feedback-ID: 1.us-east-1.DKmIRZFhhsBhtmFMNikgwZUWVrODEw9qVcPhqJEI2DA=:AmazonSES Archived-At: Subject: Re: [netmod] WG Last Call: draft-ietf-netmod-artwork-folding-02 X-BeenThere: netmod@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: NETMOD WG list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 28 May 2019 15:36:54 -0000 --Apple-Mail=_A6C48A9A-2A5B-4522-B0AE-1AD748B6312A Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Hi Rob, Thanks for your review. Comments below. > 1) Abstract: > I wasn't sure whether the abstract is still entirely accurate, given = that the document describes two strategies rather than one, only one of = those strategies is time proven ('\'), and only one of those strategies = works on *any* text-based content ('\\'). True, how about this (with a similar change in the Introduction)? This document defines two strategies for handling long lines in width-bounded text content. One strategy is based on the time-proven use of a single backslash ('\') character to indicate where line- folding has occurred, with the continuation occurring with the first non-space (' ') character on the next line. The second strategy extends the first strategy by adding a second backslash character to identify where the continuation begins and thereby able to handle cases not supported by the first strategy. Both strategies use a self-describing header enabling automated reconstitution of the original content. > 2) Section 4. Goals: > Is one of the goals to *exactly* reproduce the input text to the = folding algorithm? If so, this might be worth explicitly stating (e.g. = because of the whitespace handling when using the single backslash = strategy). This is what the second goal (4.2.) means by "reconstitution of the = original text content". The below is slightly modified, is it okay? 4.2. Automated Reconstitution of the Original Text Content Automated reconstitution of the original text content is needed to support validation of text-based content extracted from documents. For instance, already YANG [RFC7950] modules are extracted from Internet-Drafts and validated as part of the draft-submission process. Additionally, the desire to validate instance examples (i.e., XML/JSON documents) contained within Internet-Drafts has been discussed ([yang-doctors-thread]). > 3) Section 5.1 > Nit: will work -> works. Fixed. > 4) Section 5.2, 4th paragraph about functions. > I'm not sure this paragraph really adds anything to the document, so I = would suggest removing it. E.g. does this means that we should use YANG = groupings to avoid line length indentation issues, if so, I would = question whether that makes the resulting YANG model more readable. Removed. I agree that the (unfolded) YANG module's readability is more = important and, besides, these are just examples and don't preclude = anything. > 5) Section 5.2, last paragraph. > I think that the RECOMMENDED is perhaps a bit strong, hence I would = prefer "suggested" or "encouraged" over "RECOMMENDED". I think that = some/many of the input formats do have ways that the input can be = modified such that folding isn't required, but I'm not sure that we = necessarily advocate that should always be done. Disagree. We do want to advocate authors do what they can. It was a = SHOULD before, but downgraded to a RECOMMENDED to be less overt. > 6) 7.2.1. '\' folding algorithm: > It should also check if the line contains more than "max line length = space" characters and if so it cannot be folded using this strategy. You're correct that this is a problem case, but isn't it covered already = by the following sentence? 1. Determine where the fold will occur. This location MUST be before or at the desired maximum column, and MUST NOT be on top of a space (' ') character. If no such location can be found, then exit (this text content cannot be folded) > 7) 8.2.1. '\\' folding algorithm, 6th paragraph: > Does this have to abort if it finds a '\' character at the end of the = line, and start at next? I think that this could still be handled by = folding again at that same point, which when unfolded should go back to = the same input again. Of course, such a tool might also warn that the = input might already be folded input. One of the advantages of the '\\' = method is that it should be able to deterministically work on any input. Good point, how about this? Scan the text content to ensure no existing lines already end with a backslash ('\') character while the subsequent line starts with a backslash ('\') character as the first non-space (' ') character, as this could lead to an ambiguous result. If such a line is found, and its width is less than the desired maximum, then it SHOULD be flagged for forced folding (folding even though unnecessary). If the folding implementation doesn't support forced foldings, it MUST exit. For each line in the text content, from top-to-bottom, if the line exceeds the desired maximum, or requires a forced folding, then fold the line by: > Final comment, and it is probably a bit late for this, but rather than = having two separate schemes, I have one quick idea for merging the two. >=20 Yes, too late for that kind of change I think, at least I'm not = interested in investing the time to see if its viable. Kent // author --Apple-Mail=_A6C48A9A-2A5B-4522-B0AE-1AD748B6312A Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/html; charset=us-ascii Hi = Rob,

Thanks for your = review.  Comments below.



1) = Abstract:
I wasn't sure whether the = abstract is still entirely accurate, given that the document describes = two strategies rather than one, only one of those strategies is time = proven ('\'), and only one of those strategies works on *any* text-based = content ('\\').

True, how about this (with a similar change in the = Introduction)?

  =  This document defines two strategies for handling long lines in
   width-bounded text content.  One strategy = is based on the time-proven
   use of a single = backslash ('\') character to indicate where line-
  =  folding has occurred, with the continuation occurring with the = first
   non-space (' ') character on the next = line.  The second strategy
   extends the = first strategy by adding a second backslash character to
   identify where the continuation begins and = thereby able to handle
   cases not supported by = the first strategy.  Both strategies use a
  =  self-describing header enabling automated reconstitution of the
   original content.




2) Section 4. Goals:
Is one of = the goals to *exactly* reproduce the input text to the folding = algorithm?  If so, this might be worth explicitly stating (e.g. = because of the whitespace handling when using the single backslash = strategy).

This is what the second goal (4.2.) means by = "reconstitution of the original text content".   The below is = slightly modified, is it okay?

  = 4.2.  Automated Reconstitution of the Original Text Content

     Automated = reconstitution of the original text content is needed to
     support validation of text-based content = extracted from documents.

    =  For instance, already YANG [RFC7950] modules are extracted from
     Internet-Drafts and validated as part of = the draft-submission
     process. =  Additionally, the desire to validate instance examples
     (i.e., XML/JSON documents) contained = within Internet-Drafts has
     been = discussed ([yang-doctors-thread]).



3) Section = 5.1
Nit: will work -> works.

Fixed.


4) Section 5.2, 4th paragraph about functions.
I'm not sure this paragraph really adds anything to the = document, so I would suggest removing it.  E.g. does this means = that we should use YANG groupings to avoid line length indentation = issues, if so, I would question whether that makes the resulting YANG = model more readable.

Removed.  I agree that the (unfolded) YANG = module's readability is more important and, besides, these are just = examples and don't preclude anything.


5) Section 5.2, last paragraph.
I think that = the RECOMMENDED is perhaps a bit strong, hence I would prefer = "suggested" or "encouraged" over "RECOMMENDED".  I think that = some/many of the input formats do have ways that the input can be = modified such that folding isn't required, but I'm not sure that we = necessarily advocate that should always be done.

Disagree.  We do want to advocate authors do = what they can.  It was a SHOULD before, but downgraded to a = RECOMMENDED to be less overt.


6) 7.2.1. '\' folding algorithm:
It should also = check if the line contains more than "max line length space" characters = and if so it cannot be folded using this strategy.

You're = correct that this is a problem case, but isn't it covered already by the = following sentence?

   1. =  Determine where the fold will occur.  This location MUST = be
       before or at the desired = maximum column, and MUST NOT be on top
    =    of a space (' ') character.  If no such location can = be found,
       then exit (this text = content cannot be folded)



7) 8.2.1. '\\' folding algorithm, 6th = paragraph:
Does this have to abort if it finds a '\' = character at the end of the line, and start at next?  I think that = this could still be handled by folding again at that same point, which = when unfolded should go back to the same input again.  Of course, = such a tool might also warn that the input might already be folded = input.  One of the advantages of the '\\' method is that it should = be able to deterministically work on any input.

Good = point, how about this?

  =  Scan the text content to ensure no existing lines already end with = a
   backslash ('\') character while the subsequent = line starts with a
   backslash ('\') character as = the first non-space (' ') character, as
   this = could lead to an ambiguous result.  If such a line is found, = and
   its width is less than the desired maximum, = then it SHOULD be flagged
   for forced folding = (folding even though unnecessary).  If the folding
  =  implementation doesn't support forced foldings, it MUST = exit.

  =  <snip>

   For = each line in the text content, from top-to-bottom, if the = line
   exceeds the desired maximum, or requires a = forced folding, then fold
   the line by:



Final comment, and it is = probably a bit late for this, but rather than having two separate = schemes, I have one quick idea for merging the two.

<snip>

Yes, too late for that kind of change I = think, at least I'm not interested in investing the time to see if its = viable.


Kent= // author

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charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hi Kent, Please see inline ... From: Kent Watsen Sent: 28 May 2019 16:37 To: Rob Wilton (rwilton) Cc: netmod@ietf.org; draft-ietf-netmod-artwork-folding@ietf.org Subject: Re: [netmod] WG Last Call: draft-ietf-netmod-artwork-folding-02 Hi Rob, Thanks for your review. Comments below. 1) Abstract: I wasn't sure whether the abstract is still entirely accurate, given that t= he document describes two strategies rather than one, only one of those str= ategies is time proven ('\'), and only one of those strategies works on *an= y* text-based content ('\\'). True, how about this (with a similar change in the Introduction)? This document defines two strategies for handling long lines in width-bounded text content. One strategy is based on the time-proven use of a single backslash ('\') character to indicate where line- folding has occurred, with the continuation occurring with the first non-space (' ') character on the next line. The second strategy extends the first strategy by adding a second backslash character to identify where the continuation begins and thereby able to handle cases not supported by the first strategy. Both strategies use a self-describing header enabling automated reconstitution of the original content. [RW] Yes, I think that is better, and probably OK. I still slightly question "One strategy is based on the time-proven use of = a single backslash ('\') character to indicate where line-folding has occur= red, with the continuation occurring with the first non-space (' ') charact= er on the next line." Because I don't think that is how '\' character work= s, at least in languages such as C. Specifically, it doesn't ignore leadin= g whitespace on the following line, instead it is often used where that whi= tespace is not significant to the compiler. 2) Section 4. Goals: Is one of the goals to *exactly* reproduce the input text to the folding al= gorithm? If so, this might be worth explicitly stating (e.g. because of th= e whitespace handling when using the single backslash strategy). This is what the second goal (4.2.) means by "reconstitution of the origina= l text content". The below is slightly modified, is it okay? 4.2. Automated Reconstitution of the Original Text Content Automated reconstitution of the original text content is needed to support validation of text-based content extracted from documents. For instance, already YANG [RFC7950] modules are extracted from Internet-Drafts and validated as part of the draft-submission process. Additionally, the desire to validate instance examples (i.e., XML/JSON documents) contained within Internet-Drafts has been discussed ([yang-doctors-thread]). [RW] Perhaps "original text content" -> "exact original text content"? But I'm = also OK with your suggested text. 3) Section 5.1 Nit: will work -> works. Fixed. 4) Section 5.2, 4th paragraph about functions. I'm not sure this paragraph really adds anything to the document, so I woul= d suggest removing it. E.g. does this means that we should use YANG groupi= ngs to avoid line length indentation issues, if so, I would question whethe= r that makes the resulting YANG model more readable. Removed. I agree that the (unfolded) YANG module's readability is more imp= ortant and, besides, these are just examples and don't preclude anything. 5) Section 5.2, last paragraph. I think that the RECOMMENDED is perhaps a bit strong, hence I would prefer = "suggested" or "encouraged" over "RECOMMENDED". I think that some/many of = the input formats do have ways that the input can be modified such that fol= ding isn't required, but I'm not sure that we necessarily advocate that sho= uld always be done. Disagree. We do want to advocate authors do what they can. It was a SHOUL= D before, but downgraded to a RECOMMENDED to be less overt. [RW] According to RFC2119, RECOMMENDED is interpreted exactly the same way as SH= OULD. 3. SHOULD This word, or the adjective "RECOMMENDED", mean that there may exist valid reasons in particular circumstances to ignore a particular item, but the full implications must be understood and carefully weighed before choosing a different course. I still think that SHOULD/RECOMMENDED is too strong. 6) 7.2.1. '\' folding algorithm: It should also check if the line contains more than "max line length space"= characters and if so it cannot be folded using this strategy. You're correct that this is a problem case, but isn't it covered already by= the following sentence? 1. Determine where the fold will occur. This location MUST be before or at the desired maximum column, and MUST NOT be on top of a space (' ') character. If no such location can be found, then exit (this text content cannot be folded) [RW] Yes, thanks for the clarification. 7) 8.2.1. '\\' folding algorithm, 6th paragraph: Does this have to abort if it finds a '\' character at the end of the line,= and start at next? I think that this could still be handled by folding ag= ain at that same point, which when unfolded should go back to the same inpu= t again. Of course, such a tool might also warn that the input might alrea= dy be folded input. One of the advantages of the '\\' method is that it sh= ould be able to deterministically work on any input. Good point, how about this? Scan the text content to ensure no existing lines already end with a backslash ('\') character while the subsequent line starts with a backslash ('\') character as the first non-space (' ') character, as this could lead to an ambiguous result. If such a line is found, and its width is less than the desired maximum, then it SHOULD be flagged for forced folding (folding even though unnecessary). If the folding implementation doesn't support forced foldings, it MUST exit. For each line in the text content, from top-to-bottom, if the line exceeds the desired maximum, or requires a forced folding, then fold the line by: [RW] OK. Final comment, and it is probably a bit late for this, but rather than havi= ng two separate schemes, I have one quick idea for merging the two. Yes, too late for that kind of change I think, at least I'm not interested = in investing the time to see if its viable. [RW] OK. Thanks, Rob Kent // author --_000_BYAPR11MB263191E71A0E09CE1667AB45B51E0BYAPR11MB2631namp_ Content-Type: text/html; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

Hi Kent,<= o:p>

&nbs= p;

Please se= e inline …

&nbs= p;

From: Kent Watsen <kent@watsen.net>
Sent: 28 May 2019 16:37
To: Rob Wilton (rwilton) <rwilton@cisco.com>
Cc: netmod@ietf.org; draft-ietf-netmod-artwork-folding@ietf.org
Subject: Re: [netmod] WG Last Call: draft-ietf-netmod-artwork-foldin= g-02

 

Hi Rob,

 

Thanks for your review.=  Comments below.

 

 



1) Abstract:=

I wasn't sure whether t= he abstract is still entirely accurate, given that the document describes t= wo strategies rather than one, only one of those strategies is time proven = ('\'), and only one of those strategies works on *any* text-based content ('\\').

 

True, how about this (w= ith a similar change in the Introduction)?

 

   This document defines two strategies for handling long lines i= n
   width-bounded text content.  One strategy is based on the= time-proven
   use of a single backslash ('\') character to indicate where li= ne-
   folding has occurred, with the continuation occurring with the= first
   non-space (' ') character on the next line.  The second s= trategy
   extends the first strategy by adding a second backslash charac= ter to
   identify where the continuation begins and thereby able to han= dle
   cases not supported by the first strategy.  Both strategi= es use a
   self-describing header enabling automated reconstitution of th= e
   original content.

 

[RW]

Yes, I think that is better, and probably OK.

 

I still slightly question “One strategy is bas= ed on the time-proven use of a single backslash ('\') character to indicate= where line-folding has occurred, with the continuation occurring with the = first non-space (' ') character on the next line.”  Because I don’t think that is how ‘\’= character works, at least in languages such as C.  Specifically, it d= oesn’t ignore leading whitespace on the following line, instead it is= often used where that whitespace is not significant to the compiler.<= /o:p>

 

 



2) Section 4. Goals: Is one of the goals to *exactly* reproduce the input text to the folding al= gorithm?  If so, this might be worth explicitly stating (e.g. because = of the whitespace handling when using the single backslash strategy).<= /o:p>

 

This is what the second= goal (4.2.) means by "reconstitution of the original text content&quo= t;.   The below is slightly modified, is it okay?

 

  4.2.  Automated Reconstitution of the Original Text Content

     Automated reconstitution of the original text content i= s needed to
     support validation of text-based content extracted from= documents.

     For instance, already YANG [RFC7950] modules are extrac= ted from
     Internet-Drafts and validated as part of the draft-subm= ission
     process.  Additionally, the desire to validate ins= tance examples
     (i.e., XML/JSON documents) contained within Internet-Dr= afts has
     been discussed ([yang-doctors-thread]).

 

[RW]

Perhaps “original text content” -> &#= 8220;exact original text content”?  But I’m also OK with y= our suggested text.



3) Section 5.1
Nit: will work -> works.

 

Fixed.

 



4) Section 5.2, 4th par= agraph about functions.
I'm not sure this paragraph really adds anything to the document, so I woul= d suggest removing it.  E.g. does this means that we should use YANG g= roupings to avoid line length indentation issues, if so, I would question w= hether that makes the resulting YANG model more readable.

 

Removed.  I agree = that the (unfolded) YANG module's readability is more important and, beside= s, these are just examples and don't preclude anything.

 



5) Section 5.2, last pa= ragraph.
I think that the RECOMMENDED is perhaps a bit strong, hence I would prefer = "suggested" or "encouraged" over "RECOMMENDED"= ;.  I think that some/many of the input formats do have ways that the = input can be modified such that folding isn't required, but I'm not sure that we necessarily advocate that should always be done.

 

Disagree.  We do w= ant to advocate authors do what they can.  It was a SHOULD before, but= downgraded to a RECOMMENDED to be less overt.

[RW]

According to RFC2119, RECOMMENDED is interpreted exa= ctly the same way as SHOULD.

 

3. SHOULD   This word, or the adject= ive "RECOMMENDED", mean that there

   may exist valid reasons in partic= ular circumstances to ignore a

   particular item, but the full imp= lications must be understood and

   carefully weighed before choosing= a different course.

 

I still think that SHOULD/RECOMMENDED is too strong.=



6) 7.2.1. '\' folding a= lgorithm:
It should also check if the line contains more than "max line length s= pace" characters and if so it cannot be folded using this strategy.

 

You're correct that thi= s is a problem case, but isn't it covered already by the following sentence= ?

 

   1.  Determine where the fold will occur.  This locat= ion MUST be
       before or at the desired maximum column, and MUS= T NOT be on top
       of a space (' ') character.  If no such loc= ation can be found,
       then exit (this text content cannot be folded)

[RW]

Yes, thanks for the clarification.



7) 8.2.1. '\\' folding = algorithm, 6th paragraph:
Does this have to abort if it finds a '\' character at the end of the line,= and start at next?  I think that this could still be handled by foldi= ng again at that same point, which when unfolded should go back to the same= input again.  Of course, such a tool might also warn that the input might already be folded input.  One of= the advantages of the '\\' method is that it should be able to determinist= ically work on any input.

 

Good point, how about t= his?

 

   Scan the t= ext content to ensure no existing lines already end with a

   backslash = ('\') character while the subsequent line starts with a

   backslash = ('\') character as the first non-space (' ') character, as

   this could= lead to an ambiguous result.  If such a line is found, and=

   its width = is less than the desired maximum, then it SHOULD be flagged

   for forced= folding (folding even though unnecessary).  If the folding=

   implementa= tion doesn't support forced foldings, it MUST exit.

 

   <snip&g= t;

 

   For each l= ine in the text content, from top-to-bottom, if the line

   exceeds th= e desired maximum, or requires a forced folding, then fold

   the line b= y:

 

 

[RW]

OK.

 

 

Final comment, and it is probably a bit late for this, but rather than havi= ng two separate schemes, I have one quick idea for merging the two.

<snip>=

 

Yes, too late for that = kind of change I think, at least I'm not interested in investing the time t= o see if its viable.

[RW]

OK.

 

Thanks,

Rob

 

 

Kent // author

 

--_000_BYAPR11MB263191E71A0E09CE1667AB45B51E0BYAPR11MB2631namp_-- From nobody Tue May 28 09:36:58 2019 Return-Path: <0100016aff4d355e-f638b0c7-02de-481c-9153-f79023bcaa7d-000000@amazonses.watsen.net> X-Original-To: netmod@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: netmod@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id C4234120198; Tue, 28 May 2019 09:36:55 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.311 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.311 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_H2=-0.415, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_NONE=0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (1024-bit key) header.d=amazonses.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id WakTjSOQQUNx; Tue, 28 May 2019 09:36:53 -0700 (PDT) Received: from a8-31.smtp-out.amazonses.com (a8-31.smtp-out.amazonses.com [54.240.8.31]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id B44D3120127; Tue, 28 May 2019 09:36:52 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; q=dns/txt; c=relaxed/simple; s=6gbrjpgwjskckoa6a5zn6fwqkn67xbtw; d=amazonses.com; t=1559061411; h=From:Message-Id:Content-Type:Mime-Version:Subject:Date:In-Reply-To:Cc:To:References:Feedback-ID; bh=eHQcVKzIrJs1GVvvBe81U9BCnltCv7Q/YauK47sQHHU=; b=TW8canvu3+GAAa9hjAbq2fSvXatH6kOEsQbOH+9RX6olJaYXJ6EJYdGaicspIopt zHPall5fQ9i0mBapUDz1d0vCpBad2NH9ExaaZKEwoou1nZ7SdwSkNTPqTq88Rk//p1H fJ/u6ighycqttH5DuzEI3ZN55Mnf6zTSJuz7MDf0= From: Kent Watsen Message-ID: <0100016aff4d355e-f638b0c7-02de-481c-9153-f79023bcaa7d-000000@email.amazonses.com> Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="Apple-Mail=_8B066B60-B039-4014-9AB8-4AFC8DD0A688" Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 12.4 \(3445.104.11\)) Date: Tue, 28 May 2019 16:36:51 +0000 In-Reply-To: <91E3A1BD737FDF4FA14118387FF6766B2774DA44@lhreml504-mbs> Cc: Lou Berger , "netmod@ietf.org" , "netmod-chairs@ietf.org" To: Italo Busi References: <91E3A1BD737FDF4FA14118387FF6766B2774C768@lhreml504-mbs> <0100016afa70796c-314cbf69-755f-4ae2-b83a-d53507714c69-000000@email.amazonses.com> <91E3A1BD737FDF4FA14118387FF6766B2774DA44@lhreml504-mbs> X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.3445.104.11) X-SES-Outgoing: 2019.05.28-54.240.8.31 Feedback-ID: 1.us-east-1.DKmIRZFhhsBhtmFMNikgwZUWVrODEw9qVcPhqJEI2DA=:AmazonSES Archived-At: Subject: Re: [netmod] WG Last Call: draft-ietf-netmod-artwork-folding-02 X-BeenThere: netmod@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: NETMOD WG list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 28 May 2019 16:36:56 -0000 --Apple-Mail=_8B066B60-B039-4014-9AB8-4AFC8DD0A688 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Hi Italo, Thank you for the text suggestion, I landed on the following text: For readability purposes, this script forces the minimally supported line length to be eight characters longer than the raw header text defined in Section 7.1.1 and Section 8.1.1 so as to ensure that the header can be wrapped by a space (' ') character and three equal ('=3D') characters on each side of the raw header text. Kent // author > On May 28, 2019, at 9:33 AM, Italo Busi wrote: >=20 > Hi Kent, <> > =20 > Thanks for your reply > =20 > For what I am concerned, the clarification you have provided is = sufficient to me (no need to change the code) > =20 > You might also consider adding similar text at the beginning of = Appendix A, if you think this helps. Something along the line: > =20 > The script forces the desired maximum line length to be a bit longer = than the raw header text defined in sections 7 and 8, to further ensure = that the header will always have some '=3D' characters wrapping around = the header, for readability, in the unlikely scenario that such a = narrow-width is needed. > =20 > Italo > =20 > Italo Busi > Principal Optical Transport Network Research Engineer > Huawei Technologies Co., Ltd. > Tel : +39 345 4721946 > Email : italo.busi@huawei.com > > =20 > This e-mail and its attachments contain confidential information from = HUAWEI, which is intended only for the person or entity whose address is = listed above. Any use of the information contained herein in any way = (including, but not limited to, total or partial disclosure, = reproduction, or dissemination) by persons other than the intended = recipient(s) is prohibited. If you receive this e-mail in error, please = notify the sender by phone or email immediately and delete it! > =20 > From: Kent Watsen [mailto:kent@watsen.net ]=20 > Sent: luned=C3=AC 27 maggio 2019 19:57 > To: Italo Busi > > Cc: Lou Berger >; = netmod@ietf.org ; netmod-chairs@ietf.org = > Subject: Re: [netmod] WG Last Call: = draft-ietf-netmod-artwork-folding-02 > =20 > =20 > Hi Italo, > =20 >=20 >=20 > 1) Section 7.2.1 (Folding for Single Backslash Strategy) says: >=20 > Ensure that the desired maximum line length is not less than the > minimum header, which is 46 characters. If the desired maximum line > length is less than this minimum, exit (this text-based content > cannot be folded). >=20 > However, the first line defined in section 7.1.1 is a "45-character = string". > I think that the paragraph be changed as: >=20 > Ensure that the desired maximum line length is not less than the > minimum header, which is 45 characters. If the desired maximum line > length is less than this minimum, exit (this text-based content > cannot be folded). > =20 > Fixed in my local copy. > =20 >=20 >=20 > 2) Section 8.2.1 (Folding for Double Backslash Strategy) says: >=20 >=20 > Ensure that the desired maximum line length is not less than the > minimum header, which is 45 characters. If the desired maximum line > length is less than this minimum, exit (this text-based content > cannot be folded). >=20 > However, the first line defined in section 8.1.1 is a "46-character = string". > I think that the paragraph be changed as: >=20 > Ensure that the desired maximum line length is not less than the > minimum header, which is 46 characters. If the desired maximum line > length is less than this minimum, exit (this text-based content > cannot be folded). > =20 > Fixed in my local copy. > =20 >=20 >=20 > A question for clarification. Reading the following code in Appendix = A: >=20 > if [[ $strategy -eq 2 ]]; then > min_supported=3D`expr ${#hdr_txt_2} + 8` > else > min_supported=3D`expr ${#hdr_txt_1} + 8` > fi >=20 > It seems to me that the minimum lengths applied by the code in = Appendix A are be 53 and 54 (instead of 45 and 46 respectively) >=20 > Is my understanding correct? > =20 > The script is not conflicting with the draft, as it does ensure that = the length is not less than the raw header text. Though, to your point, = it adds an additional buffer to further ensure that the header will = always have some '=3D' characters wrapping around the header, for = readability, in the unlikely scenario that such a narrow-width is = needed. I could go either way on this, does anyone else have an = opinion? > =20 > =20 >=20 >=20 > Thanks, Italo > =20 > Kent // author --Apple-Mail=_8B066B60-B039-4014-9AB8-4AFC8DD0A688 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/html; charset=utf-8 Hi = Italo,

Thank you for = the text suggestion, I landed on the following text:

  =  For readability purposes, this script forces the minimally = supported
   line length to be eight = characters longer than the raw header text
  =  defined in Section 7.1.1 and Section 8.1.1 so as to ensure that = the
   header can be wrapped by a space = (' ') character and three equal
   ('=3D') = characters on each side of the raw header text.

Kent // author




On May 28, 2019, at 9:33 AM, Italo Busi = <Italo.Busi@huawei.com> wrote:

 
Thanks for your = reply
 
For what I am = concerned, the clarification you have provided is sufficient to me (no = need to change the code)
 
You= might also consider adding similar text at the beginning of Appendix A, = if you think this helps. Something along the line:
 
The script forces the desired maximum = line length to be a bit longer than the raw header text defined in = sections 7 and 8, to further ensure that the header will always have = some '=3D' characters wrapping around the header, for readability, in = the unlikely scenario that such a narrow-width is needed.
 
Italo
 
Italo Busi
Principal Optical Transport Network Researc= h Engineer
Huawei Technologies Co., Ltd.
Tel : +39 345 4721946
Email : italo.busi@huawei.com
<image003.png>
 
This e-mail and its = attachments contain confidential information from HUAWEI, which is = intended only for the person or entity whose address is listed above. = Any use of the information contained herein in any way (including, but = not limited to, total or partial disclosure, reproduction, or = dissemination) by persons other than the intended recipient(s) is = prohibited. If you receive this e-mail in error, please notify the = sender by phone or email immediately and delete it!
 
From: Kent Watsen [mailto:kent@watsen.net] 
Sent: luned=C3=AC 27 maggio 2019 = 19:57
To: Italo Busi <Italo.Busi@huawei.com>
Cc: Lou Berger <lberger@labn.net>; netmod@ietf.org; netmod-chairs@ietf.org
Subject: Re: [netmod] WG Last Call: = draft-ietf-netmod-artwork-folding-02
 
 
Hi Italo,
 


1) Section 7.2.1 = (Folding for Single Backslash Strategy) says:

  Ensure that the desired maximum line length is = not less than the
  minimum header, which is 46 = characters.  If the desired maximum line
  length is less than this minimum, exit (this = text-based content
  cannot be folded).

However, the first line defined in section = 7.1.1 is a "45-character string".
I think that the = paragraph be changed as:

  Ensure = that the desired maximum line length is not less than the
  minimum header, which is 45 characters.  If = the desired maximum line
  length is less than = this minimum, exit (this text-based content
  cannot be folded).
 
Fixed in my local copy.
 


2) Section 8.2.1 = (Folding for Double Backslash Strategy) says:


  Ensure that the desired maximum = line length is not less than the
  minimum = header, which is 45 characters.  If the desired maximum line
  length is less than this minimum, exit (this = text-based content
  cannot be folded).

However, the first line defined in section = 8.1.1 is a "46-character string".
I think that the = paragraph be changed as:

  Ensure = that the desired maximum line length is not less than the
  minimum header, which is 46 characters.  If = the desired maximum line
  length is less than = this minimum, exit (this text-based content
  cannot be folded).
 
Fixed in my local = copy.
 


A question for = clarification. Reading the following code in Appendix A:
    if [[ $strategy -eq 2 ]]; then
      min_supported=3D`expr = ${#hdr_txt_2} + 8`
    else
      min_supported=3D`expr = ${#hdr_txt_1} + 8`
    fi

It seems to me that the minimum lengths = applied by the code in Appendix A are be 53 and 54 (instead of 45 and 46 = respectively)

Is my understanding = correct?
 
The script is not conflicting with the = draft, as it does ensure that the length is not less than the raw header = text.  Though, to your point, it adds an additional buffer to = further ensure that the header will always have some '=3D' characters = wrapping around the header, for readability, in the unlikely scenario = that such a narrow-width is needed.   I could go either way on = this, does anyone else have an opinion?
 
 


Thanks, Italo
 
Kent // = author

= --Apple-Mail=_8B066B60-B039-4014-9AB8-4AFC8DD0A688-- From nobody Tue May 28 09:53:13 2019 Return-Path: <0100016aff5c1a19-32fa804b-b9d4-4411-a350-0a5571256e10-000000@amazonses.watsen.net> X-Original-To: netmod@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: netmod@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id C4861120198; Tue, 28 May 2019 09:53:10 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.897 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.897 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_NONE=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (1024-bit key) header.d=amazonses.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id cHU_pBQP6g-d; Tue, 28 May 2019 09:53:08 -0700 (PDT) Received: from a8-64.smtp-out.amazonses.com (a8-64.smtp-out.amazonses.com [54.240.8.64]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 9220E120167; Tue, 28 May 2019 09:53:08 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; q=dns/txt; c=relaxed/simple; s=6gbrjpgwjskckoa6a5zn6fwqkn67xbtw; d=amazonses.com; t=1559062387; h=From:Message-Id:Content-Type:Mime-Version:Subject:Date:In-Reply-To:Cc:To:References:Feedback-ID; bh=GR8gAPMYwfn/4q14b7OkVkmuPSE43LtWkn+7dHchDjk=; b=XTlPd0c5yS2NgMWjO/t+1ep3GSvbSMtC0/Yq3t2OfqGFQJaXBNZxaC4l2tze0RRJ KgG3h3Z0ZTjRvhCM6Mh5YWc4TjRYHloRxJRy27qqiGsD2QUDjNqd7sPxHY/exOl1Lik dOcwHZmtNY6WUcY/pqYwAebgj7ToMSkLQhwlQ0tA= From: Kent Watsen Message-ID: <0100016aff5c1a19-32fa804b-b9d4-4411-a350-0a5571256e10-000000@email.amazonses.com> Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="Apple-Mail=_2AFD125B-9A20-44BE-B55C-940090CA244F" Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 12.4 \(3445.104.11\)) Date: Tue, 28 May 2019 16:53:07 +0000 In-Reply-To: Cc: "netmod@ietf.org" , "draft-ietf-netmod-artwork-folding@ietf.org" To: "Rob Wilton (rwilton)" References: <0100016aff1640f0-a301a70e-ecae-4754-84d1-12170d5b73fd-000000@email.amazonses.com> X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.3445.104.11) X-SES-Outgoing: 2019.05.28-54.240.8.64 Feedback-ID: 1.us-east-1.DKmIRZFhhsBhtmFMNikgwZUWVrODEw9qVcPhqJEI2DA=:AmazonSES Archived-At: Subject: Re: [netmod] WG Last Call: draft-ietf-netmod-artwork-folding-02 X-BeenThere: netmod@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: NETMOD WG list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 28 May 2019 16:53:11 -0000 --Apple-Mail=_2AFD125B-9A20-44BE-B55C-940090CA244F Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 > [RW]=20 > Yes, I think that is better, and probably OK. > =20 > I still slightly question =E2=80=9COne strategy is based on the = time-proven use of a single backslash ('\') character to indicate where = line-folding has occurred, with the continuation occurring with the = first non-space (' ') character on the next line.=E2=80=9D Because I = don=E2=80=99t think that is how =E2=80=98\=E2=80=99 character works, at = least in languages such as C. Specifically, it doesn=E2=80=99t ignore = leading whitespace on the following line, instead it is often used where = that whitespace is not significant to the compiler. Would s/time-proven/POSIX/ be better? BTW, I also added this to Appendix A: Shell-level end-of-line backslash ('\') characters have been purposely added to the script so as to ensure that the script is itself not folded in this document, thus simplify the ability to copy/paste the script for local use. As should be evident by the lack of the mandatory header described in Section 7.1.1, these backslashes do not designate a folded line, such as described in Section 7. > [RW]=20 > Perhaps =E2=80=9Coriginal text content=E2=80=9D -> =E2=80=9Cexact = original text content=E2=80=9D? But I=E2=80=99m also OK with your = suggested text. I'm hesitant, because it seems redundant, but it doesn't cause harm, so = I added it. > [RW]=20 > According to RFC2119, RECOMMENDED is interpreted exactly the same way = as SHOULD. Yes, when composing my response before I was going to say that it's a = downgrade "(in IMO)", but figured it would require more explanation, = which I was hoping to avoid. But here we are now ;) While I'm aware = that they carry the same RFC 2119 weight, RECOMMENDED reads softer to = me, less commanding, hence my comment. > I still think that SHOULD/RECOMMENDED is too strong. I still disagree. Any tie-breakers out there? > Good point, how about this? > =20 > Scan the text content to ensure no existing lines already end with = a > backslash ('\') character while the subsequent line starts with a > backslash ('\') character as the first non-space (' ') character, = as > this could lead to an ambiguous result. If such a line is found, = and > its width is less than the desired maximum, then it SHOULD be = flagged > for forced folding (folding even though unnecessary). If the = folding > implementation doesn't support forced foldings, it MUST exit. > =20 > > =20 > For each line in the text content, from top-to-bottom, if the line > exceeds the desired maximum, or requires a forced folding, then = fold > the line by: > =20 > =20 > [RW]=20 > OK. Great. BTW, I also added this to Appendix A: This script does not implement the "forced folding" logic described in Section 8.2.1. In such cases the script will exit with the message: Error: infile has a line ending with a '\\' character followed by a '\\' character as the first non-space character on the next line. This file cannot be folded. Kent // author --Apple-Mail=_2AFD125B-9A20-44BE-B55C-940090CA244F Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/html; charset=utf-8

[RW] 
Yes, I think that is = better, and probably OK.
 
I still slightly question =E2=80=9COne strategy is based on = the time-proven use of a single backslash ('\') character to indicate = where line-folding has occurred, with the continuation occurring with = the first non-space (' ') character on the next line.=E2=80=9D  = Because I don=E2=80=99t think that is how =E2=80=98\=E2=80=99 character = works, at least in languages such as C.  Specifically, it doesn=E2=80= =99t ignore leading whitespace on the following line, instead it is = often used where that whitespace is not significant to the = compiler.

Would s/time-proven/POSIX/ be = better?

BTW, I also added this to = Appendix A:

  =  Shell-level end-of-line backslash ('\') characters have = been
   purposely added to the script so as to = ensure that the script is
   itself not folded in = this document, thus simplify the ability to
  =  copy/paste the script for local use.  As should be evident by = the
   lack of the mandatory header described in = Section 7.1.1, these
   backslashes do not designate = a folded line, such as described in
   Section = 7.




[RW] 
Perhaps =E2=80=9Coriginal text = content=E2=80=9D -> =E2=80=9Cexact original text content=E2=80=9D? = ; But I=E2=80=99m also OK with your suggested = text.

I'm hesitant, because it seems redundant, but it = doesn't cause harm, so I added it.


[RW] 
According to RFC2119, = RECOMMENDED is interpreted exactly the same way as SHOULD.

Yes, when composing my response before I was going to = say that it's a downgrade "(in IMO)", but figured it would require more = explanation, which I was hoping to avoid.  But here we are now =  ;)   While I'm aware that they carry the same RFC 2119 = weight, RECOMMENDED reads softer to me, less commanding, hence my = comment.


 I = still think that SHOULD/RECOMMENDED is too = strong.

I still disagree.    Any tie-breakers = out there?



Good point, how about = this?
 
   Scan the text = content to ensure no existing lines already end with a
   backslash ('\') character while the subsequent = line starts with a
   backslash ('\') character = as the first non-space (' ') character, as
   this could lead to an ambiguous result.  If = such a line is found, and
   its width is = less than the desired maximum, then it SHOULD be flagged
   for forced folding (folding even though = unnecessary).  If the folding
  =  implementation doesn't support forced foldings, it MUST exit.
 
   <snip>
 
   For each line in the text = content, from top-to-bottom, if the line
   exceeds the desired maximum, or requires a = forced folding, then fold
   the line = by:
 
 
[RW] 
OK.

Great.  BTW, I also added this to Appendix = A:

   This script = does not implement the "forced folding" logic described
  =  in Section 8.2.1.  In such cases the script will exit with = the
   message:

         Error: infile = has a line ending with a '\\' character
      =    followed by a '\\' character as the first = non-space
         character on the = next line.  This file cannot be folded.




Kent // author




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autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (1024-bit key) header.d=amazonses.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 8xbNbZrSaPpp; Tue, 28 May 2019 12:20:09 -0700 (PDT) Received: from a8-64.smtp-out.amazonses.com (a8-64.smtp-out.amazonses.com [54.240.8.64]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id A7429120047; Tue, 28 May 2019 12:20:08 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; q=dns/txt; c=relaxed/simple; s=6gbrjpgwjskckoa6a5zn6fwqkn67xbtw; d=amazonses.com; t=1559071207; h=From:Message-Id:Content-Type:Mime-Version:Subject:Date:In-Reply-To:Cc:To:References:Feedback-ID; bh=NxKRSf67j/LYBnREP6maOT6634yp2TAip4OM1q3iA9s=; b=jAIPwUJDw3JIBGXp4mMkGD9SZQ+mGOhOff/vW1pScRKCeLQ0Zati4UgcNycagwZT XMyAlBcJqgYEO5i6a+/B8lfJ+rYGhoHR22w4E5KQ3vo/KIutF1E/SYuYShgZxM3rVG5 IthrbNJBo6iPSMzr+IIE69YQPOY+uRtmCTUdmGNg= From: Kent Watsen Message-ID: <0100016affe2af95-70f3b07d-93c4-4ee8-a72d-664900a10959-000000@email.amazonses.com> Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="Apple-Mail=_156816C9-C46F-40B1-B59C-AF4332598476" Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 12.4 \(3445.104.11\)) Date: Tue, 28 May 2019 19:20:07 +0000 In-Reply-To: Cc: "netmod@ietf.org" , "draft-ietf-netmod-artwork-folding@ietf.org" To: "Rob Wilton (rwilton)" References: <0100016aff1640f0-a301a70e-ecae-4754-84d1-12170d5b73fd-000000@email.amazonses.com> <0100016aff5c1a19-32fa804b-b9d4-4411-a350-0a5571256e10-000000@email.amazonses.com> X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.3445.104.11) X-SES-Outgoing: 2019.05.28-54.240.8.64 Feedback-ID: 1.us-east-1.DKmIRZFhhsBhtmFMNikgwZUWVrODEw9qVcPhqJEI2DA=:AmazonSES Archived-At: Subject: Re: [netmod] WG Last Call: draft-ietf-netmod-artwork-folding-02 X-BeenThere: netmod@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: NETMOD WG list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 28 May 2019 19:20:10 -0000 --Apple-Mail=_156816C9-C46F-40B1-B59C-AF4332598476 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 > [RW]=20 > Perhaps, less is more, e.g.,=20 > =20 > =E2=80=9COne strategy is based on the historical use of a single = backslash ('\') character to indicate where line-folding has = occurred.=E2=80=9D? Replaced. > [RW] > So, for example considering the current text, if it was a JSON input = file, it would be more appropriate to change the indentation level to 2 = spaces rather than 4 spaces to ensure that there are not unnecessary = line wraps? In theory, the only place in a JSON file that we would = expect there to be a line breaks would be within a string because that = is the only case that can=E2=80=99t be handled within JSON itself. > =20 > Is this your intended meaning? Certainly one example, yes. Kent // author --Apple-Mail=_156816C9-C46F-40B1-B59C-AF4332598476 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/html; charset=utf-8


[RW] 
Perhaps, less is more, e.g., 
 
=E2=80=9COn= e strategy is based on the historical use of a single backslash ('\') = character to indicate where line-folding has = occurred.=E2=80=9D?

Replaced.



[RW]
So, for = example considering the current text, if it was a JSON input file, it = would be more appropriate to change the indentation level to 2 spaces = rather than 4 spaces to ensure that there are not unnecessary line = wraps?  In theory, the only place in a JSON file that we would = expect there to be a line breaks would be within a string because that = is the only case that can=E2=80=99t be handled within JSON itself.
 
Is this = your intended meaning?

Certainly one example, yes.



Kent // = author

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DIR:OUT; SFP:1102; SCL:1; SRVR:VI1PR07MB4046; H:VI1PR07MB3118.eurprd07.prod.outlook.com; FPR:; SPF:None; LANG:en; PTR:InfoNoRecords; A:0; MX:1; received-spf: None (protection.outlook.com: btconnect.com does not designate permitted sender hosts) x-ms-exchange-senderadcheck: 1 x-microsoft-antispam-message-info: RmIQIw1ogOSbTeUEORNQlcVoRibpn2wqfDXNPnvbq6bHzDTSyP2uLpKubk3Jxl+mtREQKkVSXdOJh4i03h7XlEB2TQ1Q2ADlVmSi1rlMKhmTCIPU9sWGLe6KcAL1vv7TeMDwXIWg0uneNbuKjFltz2/Lbn65/6S5gB5RI8b1xjtoP2Nygntu77OarW26CDEPHziBWXIEwj27dAkPTWSve3hqgk1KqgGpDESsH4c3XvWUneQNRdhVlwXCa30hi8ZRIGj0GAMxiK6rfiCj9urATBF7mvfdBQ7FJEkiOzo72cIfyH4wcW9jte/TGyea2cJqEqwwUps/kczrj6M9aPPshDpo53Tzr/CuI8tE/BGLCPxd9a0HxYtNHMc0yQKqo1vZBGGCg8R+wZGRemYO4n1e9kHnP0p9t6dPgg2oRNvGOHg= Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-ID: Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable MIME-Version: 1.0 X-OriginatorOrg: btconnect.com X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-Network-Message-Id: f39565ee-672e-4bb0-ac9b-08d6e4118419 X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-originalarrivaltime: 29 May 2019 08:42:00.8571 (UTC) X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-fromentityheader: Hosted X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-id: cf8853ed-96e5-465b-9185-806bfe185e30 X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-mailboxtype: HOSTED X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-userprincipalname: ietfc@btconnect.com X-MS-Exchange-Transport-CrossTenantHeadersStamped: VI1PR07MB4046 Archived-At: Subject: Re: [netmod] Key collision between configured and ephemeral list entries X-BeenThere: netmod@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: NETMOD WG list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 29 May 2019 08:42:10 -0000 Tom Petch ----- Original Message ----- From: "Italo Busi" To: Cc: Sent: Monday, May 27, 2019 2:16 PM Subject: [netmod] Key collision between configured and ephemeral list entries On Friday within the TEAS WG, we have discussed an issue which seems generic and therefore agreed to ask for guidelines to the Netmod WG In the TE YANG model we have defined a tunnel list with a name attribute used as a key: | +--rw tunnel* [name] | | +--ro operational-state? identityref | | +--rw name string See: https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-teas-yang-te-21 The issue we are facing is how to avoid name collision between configured and ephemeral tunnels. In other words, the issue we are trying to address is how to avoid the client to assign to a configured tunnel a name which have been already assigned by the server to another ephemeral tunnel and vice-versa, in particular considering NMDA rules We believe that the issue is generic and apply to any configured and ephemeral list entries Has this issue been already discussed/resolved in Netmod WG? If not, what is the Netmod WG opinion/suggestion? We are currently considering the following option: Use a special character for ephemeral names - e.g. such names always are prepended by special character "#" Make the special character changeable by configuration - the default can be "#" and user can change if they desire.. If this is to conform with YANG 1.1, RFC7950, then the constraint is Identifiers are used to identify different kinds of YANG items by name. Each identifier starts with an uppercase or lowercase ASCII letter or an underscore character, followed by zero or more ASCII letters, digits, underscore characters, hyphens, and dots. No # (hash) anywhere so I suspect that a lot of tooling will fail in an unpredictable way if it encounters an illegal character in an identifier. Tom Petch Thanks, Italo Italo Busi Principal Optical Transport Network Research Engineer Huawei Technologies Co., Ltd. Tel : +39 345 4721946 Email : italo.busi@huawei.com [cid:image002.png@01D5149F.354EF420] This e-mail and its attachments contain confidential information from HUAWEI, which is intended only for the person or entity whose address is listed above. Any use of the information contained herein in any way (including, but not limited to, total or partial disclosure, reproduction, or dissemination) by persons other than the intended recipient(s) is prohibited. If you receive this e-mail in error, please notify the sender by phone or email immediately and delete it! From: Tarek Saad [mailto:tsaad.net@gmail.com] Sent: venerd=EC 24 maggio 2019 23:13 To: Igor Bryskin ; Rakesh Gandhi ; Xufeng ; Vishnu Pavan Beeram ; Italo Busi Cc: teas@ietf.org Subject: Discussion on modelling container TE tunnels in YANG The team on "to" list met to discuss this subject topic. Notes from today's discussion (please add if I missed): Name collision between configured and ephemeral tunnels: This is a generic problem in NMDA. How to handle collisions between configured and ephemeral (or auto-created) objects of a list, if the list uses the object (string based) name as the key? Both configured and ephemeral can have the same object name but they are different objects - how to avoid such collision. Proposed solution: Option 1: Use a special character for ephemeral names - e.g. such names always are prepended by special character "#" Make the special character changeable by configuration - the default can be "#" and user can change if they desire.. Others? AI (Italo): to send email to netmod group. Container TE tunnels discussion: - Container tunnels are grouping of tunnels between same 2 endpoints to share incoming traffic towards the egress - Member tunnels of a container tunnel can be auto-created/deleted on-demand and controlled by thresholds specified under the container - Some attributes may apply on the container tunnel and inherited down to member tunnels of the container - Q: Should model allow member tunnel to override inherited attributes from container tunnel? - Q: Should all auto-created member tunnels of a container have the same prefix/suffix - i..e prefix/suffix can be configurable Regards, Tarek ------------------------------------------------------------------------ -------- > _______________________________________________ > netmod mailing list > netmod@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/netmod > From nobody Wed May 29 03:02:35 2019 Return-Path: X-Original-To: netmod@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: netmod@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 816CB1200B1; Wed, 29 May 2019 03:02:28 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -4.191 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-4.191 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-2.3, SPF_PASS=-0.001, T_FILL_THIS_FORM_SHORT=0.01] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id zDDkXomYIWtH; Wed, 29 May 2019 03:02:25 -0700 (PDT) Received: from huawei.com (lhrrgout.huawei.com [185.176.76.210]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id AF9E812002E; Wed, 29 May 2019 03:02:25 -0700 (PDT) Received: from lhreml702-cah.china.huawei.com (unknown [172.18.7.108]) by Forcepoint Email with ESMTP id 5400CC6617639E4CEF93; Wed, 29 May 2019 11:02:23 +0100 (IST) Received: from LHREML504-MBS.china.huawei.com ([10.201.109.59]) by lhreml702-cah.china.huawei.com ([10.201.108.43]) with mapi id 14.03.0415.000; Wed, 29 May 2019 11:02:20 +0100 From: Italo Busi To: tom petch , "netmod@ietf.org" CC: "teas@ietf.org" Thread-Topic: [netmod] Key collision between configured and ephemeral list entries Thread-Index: AQHVFfphMHsTseJ1T0S+porZBJo1ZKaB3nKA Date: Wed, 29 May 2019 10:02:19 +0000 Message-ID: <91E3A1BD737FDF4FA14118387FF6766B2774DF6C@lhreml504-mbs> References: <91E3A1BD737FDF4FA14118387FF6766B2774D314@lhreml504-mbs> <017f01d515f9$d0c662c0$4001a8c0@gateway.2wire.net> In-Reply-To: <017f01d515f9$d0c662c0$4001a8c0@gateway.2wire.net> Accept-Language: it-IT, en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-originating-ip: [10.203.246.126] Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable MIME-Version: 1.0 X-CFilter-Loop: Reflected Archived-At: Subject: Re: [netmod] Key collision between configured and ephemeral list entries X-BeenThere: netmod@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: NETMOD WG list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 29 May 2019 10:02:29 -0000 Hi Tom, Thanks for your reply It seems to me that the text you have quoted is from: https://tools.ietf.or= g/html/rfc7950#section-6.2 If I can understand correctly, especially for section 6.2.1, this constrain= ts does not apply to name attributes whose syntax is defined as a string an= d used as key of a list, such as the tunnel list defined in the TE YANG mod= el: | +--rw tunnel* [name] | | +--ro operational-state? identityref | | +--rw name string My understanding is that a tunnel list entry with a name starting with '#' = can exist in a YANG DS Thanks, Italo -----Original Message----- From: tom petch [mailto:ietfc@btconnect.com]=20 Sent: mercoled=EC 29 maggio 2019 10:42 To: Italo Busi ; netmod@ietf.org Cc: teas@ietf.org Subject: Re: [netmod] Key collision between configured and ephemeral list e= ntries Tom Petch ----- Original Message ----- From: "Italo Busi" To: Cc: Sent: Monday, May 27, 2019 2:16 PM Subject: [netmod] Key collision between configured and ephemeral list entri= es On Friday within the TEAS WG, we have discussed an issue which seems generi= c and therefore agreed to ask for guidelines to the Netmod WG In the TE YANG model we have defined a tunnel list with a name attribute us= ed as a key: | +--rw tunnel* [name] | | +--ro operational-state? identityref | | +--rw name string See: https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-teas-yang-te-21 The issue we are facing is how to avoid name collision between configured a= nd ephemeral tunnels. In other words, the issue we are trying to address is= how to avoid the client to assign to a configured tunnel a name which have= been already assigned by the server to another ephemeral tunnel and vice-v= ersa, in particular considering NMDA rules We believe that the issue is generic and apply to any configured and epheme= ral list entries Has this issue been already discussed/resolved in Netmod WG? If not, what is the Netmod WG opinion/suggestion? We are currently consider= ing the following option: Use a special character for ephemeral names - e.g. such names always are= prepended by special character "#" Make the special character changeable by configuration - the default can= be "#" and user can change if they desire.. If this is to conform with YANG 1.1, RFC7950, then the constraint is Identifiers are used to identify different kinds of YANG items by name. Each identifier starts with an uppercase or lowercase ASCII letter or an underscore character, followed by zero or more ASCII letters, digits, underscore characters, hyphens, and dots. No # (hash) anywhere so I suspect that a lot of tooling will fail in an unp= redictable way if it encounters an illegal character in an identifier. Tom Petch Thanks, Italo Italo Busi Principal Optical Transport Network Research Engineer Huawei Technologies C= o., Ltd. Tel : +39 345 4721946 Email : italo.busi@huawei.com [cid:image002.png@01D5149F.354EF420] This e-mail and its attachments contain confidential information from HUAWE= I, which is intended only for the person or entity whose address is listed = above. Any use of the information contained herein in any way (including, b= ut not limited to, total or partial disclosure, reproduction, or disseminat= ion) by persons other than the intended recipient(s) is prohibited. If you receive this e-mail in error, please not= ify the sender by phone or email immediately and delete it! From: Tarek Saad [mailto:tsaad.net@gmail.com] Sent: venerd=EC 24 maggio 2019 23:13 To: Igor Bryskin ; Rakesh Gandhi ; Xufeng ; Vishnu Pavan Beeram ; Italo Busi Cc: teas@ietf.org Subject: Discussion on modelling container TE tunnels in YANG The team on "to" list met to discuss this subject topic. Notes from today's= discussion (please add if I missed): Name collision between configured and ephemeral tunnels: This is a generic problem in NMDA. How to handle collisions between configured and ephemeral (or auto-created) objects of a list, if the list uses the object (string based) name as the key? Both configured and ephemeral can have the same object name but they are = different objects - how to avoid such collision. Proposed solution: Option 1: Use a special character for ephemeral names - e.g. such names always are= prepended by special character "#" Make the special character changeable by configuration - the default can= be "#" and user can change if they desire.. Others? AI (Italo): to send email to netmod group. Container TE tunnels discussion: - Container tunnels are grouping of tunnels between same 2 endpoints to share incoming traffic towards the egress - Member tunnels of a container tunnel can be auto-created/deleted on-demand and controlled by thresholds specified under= the container - Some attributes may apply on the container tunnel and inherited down to member tunnels of the container - Q: Should model allow member tunnel to override inherited attributes from container tunnel? - Q: Should all auto-created member tunnels of a container have the same prefix/suffix - i..e prefix/suffix can be configurable Regards, Tarek ------------------------------------------------------------------------ -------- > _______________________________________________ > netmod mailing list > netmod@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/netmod > From nobody Wed May 29 04:04:11 2019 Return-Path: X-Original-To: netmod@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: netmod@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1489312008D; 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a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=btconnect.onmicrosoft.com; s=selector1-btconnect-onmicrosoft-com; h=From:Date:Subject:Message-ID:Content-Type:MIME-Version:X-MS-Exchange-SenderADCheck; bh=Z97l5tKHNXTjvTjWxKfAfxxbR++12uLLq+0cJMayAYc=; b=fSw0l5CF0komnE1psmVHVFwsfFC2tjcFukG2y0JbCwDihp1ywww10BiRg+XXgErd5nKQU3fHXCHdEj0Q06Xs6GgFX87z3nIYWZAWijDwlWy/0/1WRgJLxssoGaAX+tTvDyV6W+lRTNTyYJmVTo92iWpGBC6IRWk/z8c+qQadXlc= Received: from VI1PR07MB3118.eurprd07.prod.outlook.com (10.175.242.156) by VI1PR07MB3917.eurprd07.prod.outlook.com (52.134.27.145) with Microsoft SMTP Server (version=TLS1_2, cipher=TLS_ECDHE_RSA_WITH_AES_256_GCM_SHA384) id 15.20.1943.12; Wed, 29 May 2019 11:03:58 +0000 Received: from VI1PR07MB3118.eurprd07.prod.outlook.com ([fe80::7537:44ee:88c1:dd6d]) by VI1PR07MB3118.eurprd07.prod.outlook.com ([fe80::7537:44ee:88c1:dd6d%7]) with mapi id 15.20.1943.016; Wed, 29 May 2019 11:03:58 +0000 From: tom petch To: Italo Busi , "netmod@ietf.org" CC: "teas@ietf.org" Thread-Topic: [netmod] Key collision between configured and ephemeral list entries Thread-Index: AQHVFfphMHsTseJ1T0S+porZBJo1ZA== Date: Wed, 29 May 2019 11:03:58 +0000 Message-ID: <062401d5160d$a568ea80$4001a8c0@gateway.2wire.net> References: <91E3A1BD737FDF4FA14118387FF6766B2774D314@lhreml504-mbs> <017f01d515f9$d0c662c0$4001a8c0@gateway.2wire.net> <91E3A1BD737FDF4FA14118387FF6766B2774DF6C@lhreml504-mbs> Accept-Language: en-GB, en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-clientproxiedby: LO2P265CA0465.GBRP265.PROD.OUTLOOK.COM (2603:10a6:600:a2::21) To VI1PR07MB3118.eurprd07.prod.outlook.com (2603:10a6:802:20::28) authentication-results: spf=none (sender IP is ) smtp.mailfrom=ietfc@btconnect.com; 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DIR:OUT; SFP:1102; SCL:1; SRVR:VI1PR07MB3917; H:VI1PR07MB3118.eurprd07.prod.outlook.com; FPR:; SPF:None; LANG:en; PTR:InfoNoRecords; MX:1; A:0; received-spf: None (protection.outlook.com: btconnect.com does not designate permitted sender hosts) x-ms-exchange-senderadcheck: 1 x-microsoft-antispam-message-info: otyiYDy+aTZ8lmhXgJiflYIecMie+6cUknv2FKofadiMHrfsDeFnF+IbIhXc64P7UiJc6V4sV0blfH/pM7ifF6EOpmtaBpDVjn9f2bCnvLIXUuoAOKw48ovMm3xjfnnf6o7AyVHWY+wXHao7O4vRUBgjBMGvwnzGUBWPpnngstqqqgLRjVTXNX4yAqYq+4zYXYvP6tN8fGYu6Lt9qAZqDR8Ys+Dhqm7tS30O3fmj21CzWwBejzXzH7QIFua4TO4uO7+RLB+9LY7eSAdmtjcyfIopVDkf7jXqhB9MlptyEDgN+IGQC7zNS/vBsE2ZFjgqfW6PHbauxlkR6m99acKasoaE/Dv+ltXcLbq6MIrwwINJfA0c9nk6OOoIlQTv+1qpEhXmNQf8b4fL7JZ8jglK6fXSMJXp/Hzj1qDkEokAt+E= Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-ID: <13E561767C4BA6458AC81121AB1B6E76@eurprd07.prod.outlook.com> Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable MIME-Version: 1.0 X-OriginatorOrg: btconnect.com X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-Network-Message-Id: c005375c-2029-4188-a2fe-08d6e42558c5 X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-originalarrivaltime: 29 May 2019 11:03:58.3818 (UTC) X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-fromentityheader: Hosted X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-id: cf8853ed-96e5-465b-9185-806bfe185e30 X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-mailboxtype: HOSTED X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-userprincipalname: ietfc@btconnect.com X-MS-Exchange-Transport-CrossTenantHeadersStamped: VI1PR07MB3917 Archived-At: Subject: Re: [netmod] Key collision between configured and ephemeral list entries X-BeenThere: netmod@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: NETMOD WG list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 29 May 2019 11:04:03 -0000 ----- Original Message ----- From: "Italo Busi" Sent: Wednesday, May 29, 2019 11:02 AM Hi Tom, Thanks for your reply It seems to me that the text you have quoted is from: https://tools.ietf.org/html/rfc7950#section-6.2 If I can understand correctly, especially for section 6.2.1, this constraints does not apply to name attributes whose syntax is defined as a string and used as key of a list, such as the tunnel list defined in the TE YANG model: | +--rw tunnel* [name] | | +--ro operational-state? identityref | | +--rw name string My understanding is that a tunnel list entry with a name starting with '#' can exist in a YANG DS Italo Ah yes, my misunderstanding. 'string' type is a bit more flexible i.e. The string built-in type represents human-readable strings in YANG. Legal characters are the Unicode and ISO/IEC 10646 [ISO.10646] characters, including tab, carriage return, and line feed but excluding the other C0 control characters, the surrogate blocks, and the noncharacters. Plenty of scope there! If this approach is taken, then I agree that hash is a good choice as it stands out, unlike, say, underscore which vanishes in the line of text. Tom Petch Thanks, Italo -----Original Message----- From: tom petch [mailto:ietfc@btconnect.com] Sent: mercoled=EC 29 maggio 2019 10:42 To: Italo Busi ; netmod@ietf.org Cc: teas@ietf.org Subject: Re: [netmod] Key collision between configured and ephemeral list entries Tom Petch ----- Original Message ----- From: "Italo Busi" To: Cc: Sent: Monday, May 27, 2019 2:16 PM Subject: [netmod] Key collision between configured and ephemeral list entries On Friday within the TEAS WG, we have discussed an issue which seems generic and therefore agreed to ask for guidelines to the Netmod WG In the TE YANG model we have defined a tunnel list with a name attribute used as a key: | +--rw tunnel* [name] | | +--ro operational-state? identityref | | +--rw name string See: https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-teas-yang-te-21 The issue we are facing is how to avoid name collision between configured and ephemeral tunnels. In other words, the issue we are trying to address is how to avoid the client to assign to a configured tunnel a name which have been already assigned by the server to another ephemeral tunnel and vice-versa, in particular considering NMDA rules We believe that the issue is generic and apply to any configured and ephemeral list entries Has this issue been already discussed/resolved in Netmod WG? If not, what is the Netmod WG opinion/suggestion? We are currently considering the following option: Use a special character for ephemeral names - e.g. such names always are prepended by special character "#" Make the special character changeable by configuration - the default can be "#" and user can change if they desire.. If this is to conform with YANG 1.1, RFC7950, then the constraint is Identifiers are used to identify different kinds of YANG items by name. Each identifier starts with an uppercase or lowercase ASCII letter or an underscore character, followed by zero or more ASCII letters, digits, underscore characters, hyphens, and dots. No # (hash) anywhere so I suspect that a lot of tooling will fail in an unpredictable way if it encounters an illegal character in an identifier. Tom Petch Thanks, Italo Italo Busi Principal Optical Transport Network Research Engineer Huawei Technologies Co., Ltd. Tel : +39 345 4721946 Email : italo.busi@huawei.com [cid:image002.png@01D5149F.354EF420] This e-mail and its attachments contain confidential information from HUAWEI, which is intended only for the person or entity whose address is listed above. Any use of the information contained herein in any way (including, but not limited to, total or partial disclosure, reproduction, or dissemination) by persons other than the intended recipient(s) is prohibited. If you receive this e-mail in error, please notify the sender by phone or email immediately and delete it! From: Tarek Saad [mailto:tsaad.net@gmail.com] Sent: venerd=EC 24 maggio 2019 23:13 To: Igor Bryskin ; Rakesh Gandhi ; Xufeng ; Vishnu Pavan Beeram ; Italo Busi Cc: teas@ietf.org Subject: Discussion on modelling container TE tunnels in YANG The team on "to" list met to discuss this subject topic. Notes from today's discussion (please add if I missed): Name collision between configured and ephemeral tunnels: This is a generic problem in NMDA. How to handle collisions between configured and ephemeral (or auto-created) objects of a list, if the list uses the object (string based) name as the key? Both configured and ephemeral can have the same object name but they are different objects - how to avoid such collision. Proposed solution: Option 1: Use a special character for ephemeral names - e.g. such names always are prepended by special character "#" Make the special character changeable by configuration - the default can be "#" and user can change if they desire.. Others? AI (Italo): to send email to netmod group. Container TE tunnels discussion: - Container tunnels are grouping of tunnels between same 2 endpoints to share incoming traffic towards the egress - Member tunnels of a container tunnel can be auto-created/deleted on-demand and controlled by thresholds specified under the container - Some attributes may apply on the container tunnel and inherited down to member tunnels of the container - Q: Should model allow member tunnel to override inherited attributes from container tunnel? - Q: Should all auto-created member tunnels of a container have the same prefix/suffix - i..e prefix/suffix can be configurable Regards, Tarek ------------------------------------------------------------------------ -------- > _______________________________________________ > netmod mailing list > netmod@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/netmod > From nobody Wed May 29 06:02:23 2019 Return-Path: X-Original-To: netmod@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: netmod@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost 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AdUUid+3lEIjrS8aR5K2w9jffR4mQABlMm1Q Date: Wed, 29 May 2019 13:04:33 +0000 Message-ID: References: <91E3A1BD737FDF4FA14118387FF6766B2774D314@lhreml504-mbs> <017f01d515f9$d0c662c0$4001a8c0@gateway.2wire.net> <91E3A1BD737FDF4FA14118387FF6766B2774DF6C@lhreml504-mbs> <062401d5160d$a568ea80$4001a8c0@gateway.2wire.net> In-Reply-To: <062401d5160d$a568ea80$4001a8c0@gateway.2wire.net> Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: authentication-results: spf=none (sender IP is ) smtp.mailfrom=rwilton@cisco.com; x-originating-ip: [173.38.220.56] x-ms-publictraffictype: Email x-ms-office365-filtering-correlation-id: f05a5b8f-6d46-4192-5c99-08d6e4363217 x-microsoft-antispam: BCL:0; PCL:0; RULEID:(2390118)(7020095)(4652040)(8989299)(5600148)(711020)(4605104)(1401327)(4534185)(4627221)(201703031133081)(201702281549075)(8990200)(2017052603328)(7193020); SRVR:BYAPR11MB2837; x-ms-traffictypediagnostic: BYAPR11MB2837: x-ms-exchange-purlcount: 4 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sender hosts) x-ms-exchange-senderadcheck: 1 x-microsoft-antispam-message-info: 0VINSvMg9hhedyUFKECXmUXGTdrKz1mvPwRt0w1+O1cwLIb/mduAQm0EE4Qj7U1SO0Oof0OjUrQsw9kHma/l78dSwTJ/pr9y34lg5/pH0gBk54rLkybWKYSme567tcd0FPiEs8+h4FSyYhwwFLG2SFCBA40nOv0UueQc2UZ9BJIdaKT7wrwVAhdKaf4EIUZgEl9I45O8Te4TkPT0/78skeDFmyfNz2AiHCemxQ0VS8VO26ArGiQqaJgV6CeSIM4IN76YIaC/Jc48645G8vYPNFAQ6LqSvMtiuyvSptUgyBcb6WlNFmJShRL4SuXHJBbvACZiv3cg8ZsUX6Co89E4Jz09h/b8YefnYNsFQppqch7lSljyuFMW0FeqEIh5nbFFxrQglI3VGMGNqFOsl+g/EbaJKMSQWwCI3fYS9V+ynYg= Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable MIME-Version: 1.0 X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-Network-Message-Id: f05a5b8f-6d46-4192-5c99-08d6e4363217 X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-originalarrivaltime: 29 May 2019 13:04:33.7603 (UTC) X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-fromentityheader: Hosted X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-id: 5ae1af62-9505-4097-a69a-c1553ef7840e X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-mailboxtype: HOSTED X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-userprincipalname: rwilton@cisco.com X-MS-Exchange-Transport-CrossTenantHeadersStamped: BYAPR11MB2837 X-OriginatorOrg: cisco.com X-Outbound-SMTP-Client: 173.37.102.14, xch-rcd-004.cisco.com X-Outbound-Node: alln-core-12.cisco.com Archived-At: Subject: Re: [netmod] Key collision between configured and ephemeral list entries X-BeenThere: netmod@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: NETMOD WG list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 29 May 2019 13:04:41 -0000 Are these ephemeral tunnels created and named by the device itself? Possibly using a human readable prefix (or suffix) might be better than usi= ng a symbol. E.g. perhaps a prefix of "sys-" as an abbreviation for system. Thanks, Rob -----Original Message----- From: Teas On Behalf Of tom petch Sent: 29 May 2019 12:04 To: Italo Busi ; netmod@ietf.org Cc: teas@ietf.org Subject: Re: [Teas] [netmod] Key collision between configured and ephemeral= list entries ----- Original Message ----- From: "Italo Busi" Sent: Wednesday, May 29, 2019 11:02 AM Hi Tom, Thanks for your reply It seems to me that the text you have quoted is from: https://tools.ietf.org/html/rfc7950#section-6.2 If I can understand correctly, especially for section 6.2.1, this constrain= ts does not apply to name attributes whose syntax is defined as a string an= d used as key of a list, such as the tunnel list defined in the TE YANG mod= el: | +--rw tunnel* [name] | | +--ro operational-state? identityref | | +--rw name string My understanding is that a tunnel list entry with a name starting with '#' = can exist in a YANG DS Italo Ah yes, my misunderstanding. 'string' type is a bit more flexible i.e. The string built-in type represents human-readable strings in YANG. Legal characters are the Unicode and ISO/IEC 10646 [ISO.10646] characters, including tab, carriage return, and line feed but excluding the other C0 control characters, the surrogate blocks, and the noncharacters. Plenty of scope there! If this approach is taken, then I agree that hash is a good choice as it st= ands out, unlike, say, underscore which vanishes in the line of text. Tom Petch Thanks, Italo -----Original Message----- From: tom petch [mailto:ietfc@btconnect.com] Sent: mercoled=EC 29 maggio 2019 10:42 To: Italo Busi ; netmod@ietf.org Cc: teas@ietf.org Subject: Re: [netmod] Key collision between configured and ephemeral list e= ntries Tom Petch ----- Original Message ----- From: "Italo Busi" To: Cc: Sent: Monday, May 27, 2019 2:16 PM Subject: [netmod] Key collision between configured and ephemeral list entri= es On Friday within the TEAS WG, we have discussed an issue which seems generi= c and therefore agreed to ask for guidelines to the Netmod WG In the TE YANG model we have defined a tunnel list with a name attribute us= ed as a key: | +--rw tunnel* [name] | | +--ro operational-state? identityref | | +--rw name string See: https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-teas-yang-te-21 The issue we are facing is how to avoid name collision between configured a= nd ephemeral tunnels. In other words, the issue we are trying to address is= how to avoid the client to assign to a configured tunnel a name which have= been already assigned by the server to another ephemeral tunnel and vice-v= ersa, in particular considering NMDA rules We believe that the issue is generic and apply to any configured and epheme= ral list entries Has this issue been already discussed/resolved in Netmod WG? If not, what is the Netmod WG opinion/suggestion? We are currently consider= ing the following option: Use a special character for ephemeral names - e.g. such names always are= prepended by special character "#" Make the special character changeable by configuration - the default can= be "#" and user can change if they desire.. If this is to conform with YANG 1.1, RFC7950, then the constraint is Identifiers are used to identify different kinds of YANG items by name. Each identifier starts with an uppercase or lowercase ASCII letter or an underscore character, followed by zero or more ASCII letters, digits, underscore characters, hyphens, and dots. No # (hash) anywhere so I suspect that a lot of tooling will fail in an unp= redictable way if it encounters an illegal character in an identifier. Tom Petch Thanks, Italo Italo Busi Principal Optical Transport Network Research Engineer Huawei Technologies C= o., Ltd. Tel : +39 345 4721946 Email : italo.busi@huawei.com [cid:image002.png@01D5149F.354EF420] This e-mail and its attachments contain confidential information from HUAWE= I, which is intended only for the person or entity whose address is listed = above. Any use of the information contained herein in any way (including, b= ut not limited to, total or partial disclosure, reproduction, or disseminat= ion) by persons other than the intended recipient(s) is prohibited. If you receive this e-mail in error, please not= ify the sender by phone or email immediately and delete it! From: Tarek Saad [mailto:tsaad.net@gmail.com] Sent: venerd=EC 24 maggio 2019 23:13 To: Igor Bryskin ; Rakesh Gandhi ; Xufeng ; Vishnu Pavan Beeram ; Italo Busi Cc: teas@ietf.org Subject: Discussion on modelling container TE tunnels in YANG The team on "to" list met to discuss this subject topic. Notes from today's= discussion (please add if I missed): Name collision between configured and ephemeral tunnels: This is a generic problem in NMDA. How to handle collisions between configured and ephemeral (or auto-created) objects of a list, if the list uses the object (string based) name as the key? Both configured and ephemeral can have the same object name but they are = different objects - how to avoid such collision. Proposed solution: Option 1: Use a special character for ephemeral names - e.g. such names always are= prepended by special character "#" Make the special character changeable by configuration - the default can= be "#" and user can change if they desire.. Others? AI (Italo): to send email to netmod group. Container TE tunnels discussion: - Container tunnels are grouping of tunnels between same 2 endpoints to share incoming traffic towards the egress - Member tunnels of a container tunnel can be auto-created/deleted on-demand and controlled by thresholds specified under= the container - Some attributes may apply on the container tunnel and inherited down to member tunnels of the container - Q: Should model allow member tunnel to override inherited attributes from container tunnel? - Q: Should all auto-created member tunnels of a container have the same prefix/suffix - i..e prefix/suffix can be configurable Regards, Tarek ------------------------------------------------------------------------ -------- > _______________________________________________ > netmod mailing list > netmod@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/netmod > _______________________________________________ Teas mailing list Teas@ietf.org https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/teas From nobody Wed May 29 06:16:03 2019 Return-Path: X-Original-To: netmod@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: netmod@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0515612011A; Wed, 29 May 2019 06:16:02 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.9 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.9 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id ppfOZPX8WMlN; Wed, 29 May 2019 06:15:59 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail.tail-f.com (mail.tail-f.com [46.21.102.45]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5160412006D; Wed, 29 May 2019 06:15:59 -0700 (PDT) Received: from localhost (h-4-215.A165.priv.bahnhof.se [158.174.4.215]) by mail.tail-f.com (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 0123E1AE0428; Wed, 29 May 2019 15:15:56 +0200 (CEST) Date: Wed, 29 May 2019 15:15:56 +0200 (CEST) Message-Id: <20190529.151556.308499982395016083.mbj@tail-f.com> To: kent@watsen.net Cc: rwilton@cisco.com, draft-ietf-netmod-artwork-folding@ietf.org, netmod@ietf.org From: Martin Bjorklund In-Reply-To: <0100016aff5c1a19-32fa804b-b9d4-4411-a350-0a5571256e10-000000@email.amazonses.com> References: <0100016aff1640f0-a301a70e-ecae-4754-84d1-12170d5b73fd-000000@email.amazonses.com> <0100016aff5c1a19-32fa804b-b9d4-4411-a350-0a5571256e10-000000@email.amazonses.com> X-Mailer: Mew version 6.7 on Emacs 25.2 / Mule 6.0 (HANACHIRUSATO) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: Text/Plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 Archived-At: Subject: Re: [netmod] WG Last Call: draft-ietf-netmod-artwork-folding-02 X-BeenThere: netmod@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: NETMOD WG list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 29 May 2019 13:16:02 -0000 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DQo+IA0KPiBHcmVhdC4gIEJUVywgSSBhbHNvIGFkZGVkIHRoaXMgdG8gQXBwZW5kaXggQToNCj4g DQo+ICAgIFRoaXMgc2NyaXB0IGRvZXMgbm90IGltcGxlbWVudCB0aGUgImZvcmNlZCBmb2xkaW5n IiBsb2dpYyBkZXNjcmliZWQNCj4gICAgaW4gU2VjdGlvbiA4LjIuMS4gIEluIHN1Y2ggY2FzZXMg dGhlIHNjcmlwdCB3aWxsIGV4aXQgd2l0aCB0aGUNCj4gICAgbWVzc2FnZToNCj4gDQo+ICAgICAg ICAgIEVycm9yOiBpbmZpbGUgaGFzIGEgbGluZSBlbmRpbmcgd2l0aCBhICdcXCcgY2hhcmFjdGVy DQo+ICAgICAgICAgIGZvbGxvd2VkIGJ5IGEgJ1xcJyBjaGFyYWN0ZXIgYXMgdGhlIGZpcnN0IG5v bi1zcGFjZQ0KPiAgICAgICAgICBjaGFyYWN0ZXIgb24gdGhlIG5leHQgbGluZS4gIFRoaXMgZmls ZSBjYW5ub3QgYmUgZm9sZGVkLg0KPiANCj4gDQo+IA0KPiANCj4gS2VudCAvLyBhdXRob3INCj4g DQo+IA0KPiANCj4gDQo= From nobody Wed May 29 06:34:04 2019 Return-Path: X-Original-To: netmod@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: netmod@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 84E30120130; Wed, 29 May 2019 06:34:02 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.9 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.9 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id Qo1y_pSk7uFB; Wed, 29 May 2019 06:34:01 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail.tail-f.com (mail.tail-f.com [46.21.102.45]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id D89E912011A; Wed, 29 May 2019 06:34:00 -0700 (PDT) Received: from localhost (h-4-215.A165.priv.bahnhof.se [158.174.4.215]) by mail.tail-f.com (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 23C1E1AE0428; Wed, 29 May 2019 15:33:59 +0200 (CEST) Date: Wed, 29 May 2019 15:33:59 +0200 (CEST) Message-Id: <20190529.153359.2174895235346852569.mbj@tail-f.com> To: kent+ietf@watsen.net Cc: lberger@labn.net, netmod@ietf.org, netmod-chairs@ietf.org From: Martin Bjorklund In-Reply-To: <0100016afac3dceb-3efc8938-6954-48c7-a362-e92c08400df0-000000@email.amazonses.com> References: <20190527.130412.1876961670794351457.mbj@tail-f.com> <0100016afac3dceb-3efc8938-6954-48c7-a362-e92c08400df0-000000@email.amazonses.com> X-Mailer: Mew version 6.7 on Emacs 25.2 / Mule 6.0 (HANACHIRUSATO) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: Text/Plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Archived-At: Subject: Re: [netmod] WG Last Call: draft-ietf-netmod-artwork-folding-02 X-BeenThere: netmod@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: NETMOD WG list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 29 May 2019 13:34:03 -0000 Kent Watsen wrote: > > > Hi Martin, > > Thanks for your review. > > > > I have reviewed draft-ietf-netmod-artwork-folding-02, and here are my > > comments: [...] > > The algorithm talks specifically about space (' ') rather than > > whitespace. > > True and, FWIW, this was the only instance of the word "whitespace" in > the document. > > However, I wonder if there might be an issue lurking here. Already > the algorithm eliminates the potential for TAB, and implicitly > eliminates NL and CR through the use of the word "line", but I wonder > if there are other characters that we wish to skip > over... e.g. vertical tab? No. [...] > > o 7.1.2 / 7.2 > > > > I would prefer if the format is defined with descriptive text, > > rather than with an algorithm. It is the end result that matters, > > not which algorithm an implementation uses to get to the result. > > > > I suggest the algorithm is moved to an appendix, and/or a sentence > > is added that explains that the algorithm is just an example. > > OLD: > > This section describes the process for folding and unfolding long > lines when they are encountered in a single instance of text content. > It is assumed that another process inserts/extracts the individual > text content instances to/from an Internet-Draft or RFC. For > example, the `xiax` utility [xiax] does this. > > > NEW: > > This section describes a process for folding and unfolding long lines > when they are encountered in text content. > > The steps are complete, but implementations MAY achieve the same > result in other ways. > > When a larger document contains multiple instances of text content > that may need to be folded or unfolded, it is assumed that another > process inserts/extracts the individual text content instances to/ > from the larger document prior to utilizing the algorithms described > in this section. For example, the `xiax` utility [xiax] does this. Well, again I don't really understand why we need to assume _anything_ about how the author decides to implement this format. I would just remove this paragraph. > > Also expand the descriptive text in 7.1.2; I think that the text in > > section 6 is probably enough. However, there are some important > > details buried in the desciption of the algorithm; specifically the > > cases where SBS can't be used. > > I looked at this for a little while, but didn't see how it could be > improved. Can you provide some text? NEW: Lines that have a backslash ('\') occurring as the last character in a line are considered "folded", which means that the line continues at the first character that is not a space (' ') on the following line. Really long lines may be folded multiple times. On second thought, this text doesn't have to mention when SBS can't be used. > > o 7.2.1 > > > > I don't understand why there is a min limit of 46 characters for > > folding to work. If the only reason is for the non-normative script > > to be able to center the header line, then I think this limitation > > should be removed. (I would even prefer less flexibility in the > > header line syntax...) > > This is because we never defined how to handle folding the header > itself. I wrote about this a while back and no-one seemed bothered by > the limitation. The effort/value ration isn't there. The need to > fold less than 69-characters is unlikely, and less than 46-characters > seems even more so. IMO we could remove this arbitrary limitaion and still leave the header alone. > > o 7.2.1 / 7.2.2 > > > > I don't think the text should assume that folding/unfolding is > > "automated". > > Both sections clearly state that authors may do the equivalent > manually, or do you mean that the word "automated" in these sections > isn't adding much value and could/should be removed? Right: OLD: Folding is assumed to be automated although authors may perform the folding steps manually. Determine the desired maximum line length from input to the automated line-wrapping process, NEW: Determine the desired maximum line length from input to the line-wrapping process, /martin From nobody Wed May 29 08:22:42 2019 Return-Path: X-Original-To: netmod@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: netmod@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id C0DEE12015E; Wed, 29 May 2019 08:22:33 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.989 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.989 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, T_FILL_THIS_FORM_SHORT=0.01] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=gmail.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost 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<91E3A1BD737FDF4FA14118387FF6766B2774DF6C@lhreml504-mbs> <062401d5160d$a568ea80$4001a8c0@gateway.2wire.net> In-Reply-To: Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-Exchange-Organization-SCL: -1 X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: X-MS-Exchange-Organization-RecordReviewCfmType: 0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 MIME-Version: 1.0 Archived-At: Subject: Re: [netmod] [Teas] Key collision between configured and ephemeral list entries X-BeenThere: netmod@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: NETMOD WG list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 29 May 2019 15:22:34 -0000 SGkgUm9iLA0KDQpJbmxpbmUuLg0KDQrvu79PbiA1LzI5LzE5LCA5OjA1IEFNLCAiVGVhcyBvbiBi ZWhhbGYgb2YgUm9iIFdpbHRvbiAocndpbHRvbikiIDx0ZWFzLWJvdW5jZXNAaWV0Zi5vcmcgb24g YmVoYWxmIG9mIHJ3aWx0b25AY2lzY28uY29tPiB3cm90ZToNCg0KICAgIEFyZSB0aGVzZSBlcGhl 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LS0NCiAgICANCiAgICANCiAgICA+IF9fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19f X19fX19fX19fX19fDQogICAgPiBuZXRtb2QgbWFpbGluZyBsaXN0DQogICAgPiBuZXRtb2RAaWV0 Zi5vcmcNCiAgICA+IGh0dHBzOi8vd3d3LmlldGYub3JnL21haWxtYW4vbGlzdGluZm8vbmV0bW9k DQogICAgPg0KICAgIA0KICAgIF9fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19f X19fX19fX19fDQogICAgVGVhcyBtYWlsaW5nIGxpc3QNCiAgICBUZWFzQGlldGYub3JnDQogICAg aHR0cHM6Ly93d3cuaWV0Zi5vcmcvbWFpbG1hbi9saXN0aW5mby90ZWFzDQogICAgDQogICAgX19f X19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX18NCiAgICBUZWFzIG1h aWxpbmcgbGlzdA0KICAgIFRlYXNAaWV0Zi5vcmcNCiAgICBodHRwczovL3d3dy5pZXRmLm9yZy9t YWlsbWFuL2xpc3RpbmZvL3RlYXMNCiAgICANCg== From nobody Wed May 29 11:00:42 2019 Return-Path: X-Original-To: netmod@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: netmod@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9C16C12006E; Wed, 29 May 2019 11:00:40 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -4.191 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-4.191 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-2.3, SPF_PASS=-0.001, T_FILL_THIS_FORM_SHORT=0.01] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id pPfz0nQqIN8P; Wed, 29 May 2019 11:00:38 -0700 (PDT) Received: from huawei.com (lhrrgout.huawei.com [185.176.76.210]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 06D3412002F; Wed, 29 May 2019 11:00:38 -0700 (PDT) Received: from lhreml709-cah.china.huawei.com (unknown [172.18.7.107]) by Forcepoint Email with ESMTP id 15BBF85A2FEB58B18A2F; Wed, 29 May 2019 19:00:36 +0100 (IST) Received: from LHREML504-MBS.china.huawei.com ([10.201.109.59]) by lhreml709-cah.china.huawei.com ([10.201.108.32]) with mapi id 14.03.0415.000; Wed, 29 May 2019 19:00:35 +0100 From: Italo Busi To: Tarek Saad , "Rob Wilton (rwilton)" , tom petch , "netmod@ietf.org" CC: "teas@ietf.org" Thread-Topic: [Teas] [netmod] Key collision between configured and ephemeral list entries Thread-Index: AQHVFfphMHsTseJ1T0S+porZBJo1ZKaCAWWAgAAmiICAADnusA== Date: Wed, 29 May 2019 18:00:34 +0000 Message-ID: <91E3A1BD737FDF4FA14118387FF6766B2774E51F@lhreml504-mbs> References: <91E3A1BD737FDF4FA14118387FF6766B2774D314@lhreml504-mbs> <017f01d515f9$d0c662c0$4001a8c0@gateway.2wire.net> <91E3A1BD737FDF4FA14118387FF6766B2774DF6C@lhreml504-mbs> <062401d5160d$a568ea80$4001a8c0@gateway.2wire.net> In-Reply-To: Accept-Language: it-IT, en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-originating-ip: [10.203.246.126] Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-CFilter-Loop: Reflected Archived-At: Subject: Re: [netmod] [Teas] Key collision between configured and ephemeral list entries X-BeenThere: netmod@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: NETMOD WG list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 29 May 2019 18:00:41 -0000 Um9iLCBUYXJlaywNCg0KVGhhbmtzIGZvciBmb2xsb3dpbmctdXAgdGhpcyBkaXNjdXNzaW9uDQoN CkkgbGlrZSB0aGUgc3VnZ2VzdGlvbiB0byB1c2UgYSBwcmVmaXggc3RyaW5nOiB0aG9zZSB3aG8g cHJlZmVycyB1c2luZyBvbmUgY2hhcmFjdGVyIChlLmcuLCAnIycpIGNvdWxkIHVzZSBhIHNpbmds ZSBjaGFyYWN0ZXIgc3RyaW5nDQoNClJlZ2FyZGluZyB0aGUgY29uZmlndXJhdGlvbiwgb25lIHBv c3NpYmxlIGlzc3VlIHRoYXQganVzdCBqdW1wZWQgaW50byBteSBtaW5kIGlzIHdoYXQgaGFwcGVu cyB3aGVuIHRoZSBwcmVmaXggaXMgKHJlLSljb25maWd1cmVkIGJ5IHRoZSBjbGllbnQgYWZ0ZXIg c29tZSBlcGhlbWVyYWwgdHVubmVscyBoYXZlIGJlZW4gY3JlYXRlZCAuLi4NCg0KQW4gYWx0ZXJu YXRpdmUgc29sdXRpb24gY291bGQgYmUgdG8gbGV0IHRoZSBzZXJ2ZXIgZGVjaWRlIHdoaWNoIHBy ZWZpeCB0byB1c2UgKHNlcnZlciBpbXBsZW1lbnRhdGlvbiBpc3N1ZSkgYW5kIHRvIHByb3ZpZGUg YSByZWFkLW9ubHkgWUFORyBsZWFmIHRvIHJlcG9ydCB0aGlzIGluZm9ybWF0aW9uIHRvIHRoZSBj 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bh=DP7plKy3RR8HHSrW3Wa2v6cNmdLVckC2VKnKLT40zeQ=; b=geeXWrCs6ACOIhWQsvX6AQ+5GnNefLK5v+n2d6I25Mr7f4TmapCwn9TbRLG8693i Bng2VzC8WZXGEQsDUAFwj9j3zsFexLKkoWg3tXRwz0HUbVX5LxdA3jazdA6llCUjfC4 y8/CjPhYdeNHDsxYsOBRAdksBoUX4wpCTscFGKVE= From: Kent Watsen Message-ID: <0100016b05f8ca08-cf27f315-6d0b-4d7c-925d-db42df4693ec-000000@email.amazonses.com> Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="Apple-Mail=_ECE6E4B9-CE12-4694-A01F-EC73997E6F93" Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 12.4 \(3445.104.11\)) Date: Wed, 29 May 2019 23:41:59 +0000 In-Reply-To: <20190529.153359.2174895235346852569.mbj@tail-f.com> Cc: "netmod@ietf.org" , "netmod-chairs@ietf.org" To: Martin Bjorklund References: <20190527.130412.1876961670794351457.mbj@tail-f.com> <0100016afac3dceb-3efc8938-6954-48c7-a362-e92c08400df0-000000@email.amazonses.com> <20190529.153359.2174895235346852569.mbj@tail-f.com> X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.3445.104.11) X-SES-Outgoing: 2019.05.29-54.240.8.33 Feedback-ID: 1.us-east-1.DKmIRZFhhsBhtmFMNikgwZUWVrODEw9qVcPhqJEI2DA=:AmazonSES Archived-At: Subject: Re: [netmod] WG Last Call: draft-ietf-netmod-artwork-folding-02 X-BeenThere: netmod@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: NETMOD WG list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 29 May 2019 23:42:04 -0000 --Apple-Mail=_ECE6E4B9-CE12-4694-A01F-EC73997E6F93 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Hi Martin, >> When a larger document contains multiple instances of text content >> that may need to be folded or unfolded, it is assumed that another >> process inserts/extracts the individual text content instances to/ >> from the larger document prior to utilizing the algorithms = described >> in this section. For example, the `xiax` utility [xiax] does this. >=20 > Well, again I don't really understand why we need to assume _anything_ > about how the author decides to implement this format. removed the word "assumed", now text reads: When a larger document contains multiple instances of text content that may need to be folded or unfolded, another process must insert/ extract the individual text content instances to/from the larger document prior to utilizing the algorithms described in this section. For example, the `xiax` utility [xiax] does this. > I would just remove this paragraph. This paragraph and others like it were added by others that thought that = this algorithm was intended to process an entire I-D or RFC. > On second thought, this text doesn't have to mention when SBS can't be > used. Okay, not changed. >>> o 7.2.1 >>>=20 >>> I don't understand why there is a min limit of 46 characters for >>> folding to work. If the only reason is for the non-normative script >>> to be able to center the header line, then I think this limitation >>> should be removed. (I would even prefer less flexibility in the >>> header line syntax...) >>=20 >> This is because we never defined how to handle folding the header >> itself. I wrote about this a while back and no-one seemed bothered = by >> the limitation. The effort/value ration isn't there. The need to >> fold less than 69-characters is unlikely, and less than 46-characters >> seems even more so. >=20 > IMO we could remove this arbitrary limitaion and still leave the > header alone. Not arbitrary, as explained, leaving as is. >>> o 7.2.1 / 7.2.2 >>>=20 >>> I don't think the text should assume that folding/unfolding is >>> "automated". >>=20 >> Both sections clearly state that authors may do the equivalent >> manually, or do you mean that the word "automated" in these sections >> isn't adding much value and could/should be removed? >=20 > Right: >=20 > OLD: >=20 > Folding is assumed to be automated although authors may perform the > folding steps manually. >=20 > Determine the desired maximum line length from input to the = automated > line-wrapping process, >=20 > NEW: >=20 > Determine the desired maximum line length from input to the > line-wrapping process, Fixed (in 8.2.1 also) You supplied text for 7.2.1, but also mentioned 7.2.2 (and ~ 8.2.2) = originally. For these sections, the appropriate change is to remove = the first paragraph, which I did (in my local copy). Specifically: OLD: All unfolding is assumed to be automated although a reader will mentally perform the act of unfolding the text to understand the true nature of the original text content. NEW: Kent // author --Apple-Mail=_ECE6E4B9-CE12-4694-A01F-EC73997E6F93 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/html; charset=us-ascii
Hi Martin,


  When a larger = document contains multiple instances of text = content
  that may need to be folded or unfolded, it is = assumed that another
  process inserts/extracts = the individual text content instances to/
=   from the larger document prior to utilizing the algorithms = described
  in this section.  For example, = the `xiax` utility [xiax] does this.

Well, again I don't really understand why we need to assume = _anything_
about how the author decides to implement this = format.

removed the word "assumed", now text = reads:

   When a larger = document contains multiple instances of text content
  =  that may need to be folded or unfolded, another process must = insert/
   extract the individual text content = instances to/from the larger
   document prior = to utilizing the algorithms described in this section.
   For example, the `xiax` utility [xiax] does = this.



I would just remove this paragraph.

This = paragraph and others like it were added by others that thought that this = algorithm was intended to process an entire I-D or RFC.



On second = thought, this text doesn't have to mention when SBS can't be
used.

Okay, not changed.




o  7.2.1

I don't understand why there is a min limit = of 46 characters for
folding to work.  If the only = reason is for the non-normative script
to be able to = center the header line, then I think this limitation
= should be removed.  (I would even prefer less flexibility in the
header line syntax...)

This is because we never defined how to handle folding the = header
itself.  I wrote about this a while back and = no-one seemed bothered by
the limitation.  The = effort/value ration isn't there.  The need to
fold = less than 69-characters is unlikely, and less than 46-characters
seems even more so.

IMO we could remove this arbitrary limitaion and still leave = the
header alone.

Not = arbitrary, as explained, leaving as is.




o  7.2.1 / 7.2.2

I don't = think the text should assume that folding/unfolding is
= "automated".

Both sections = clearly state that authors may do the equivalent
manually, = or do you mean that the word "automated" in these sections
isn't adding much value and could/should be removed?

Right:

OLD:

  Folding is = assumed to be automated although authors may perform the
=   folding steps manually.

=   Determine the desired maximum line length from input to the = automated
  line-wrapping process,

NEW:

=   Determine the desired maximum line length from input to = the
  line-wrapping process,

Fixed (in 8.2.1 also)

You supplied text for 7.2.1, but also = mentioned 7.2.2 (and ~ 8.2.2) originally.   For these sections, the = appropriate change is to remove the first paragraph, which I did (in my = local copy).   Specifically:

OLD:

   All = unfolding is assumed to be automated although a reader will
   mentally perform the act of unfolding the text = to understand the true
   nature of the = original text content.

NEW:

    <deleted>



Kent // author






= --Apple-Mail=_ECE6E4B9-CE12-4694-A01F-EC73997E6F93-- From nobody Wed May 29 20:02:33 2019 Return-Path: X-Original-To: netmod@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: netmod@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 72960120020 for ; Wed, 29 May 2019 20:02:31 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.314 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.314 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_H2=-0.415, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (768-bit key) header.d=labn.net Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id SW9gCozZC4d8 for ; Wed, 29 May 2019 20:02:29 -0700 (PDT) Received: from gproxy7-pub.mail.unifiedlayer.com (gproxy7-pub.mail.unifiedlayer.com [70.40.196.235]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 71F17120018 for ; Wed, 29 May 2019 20:02:29 -0700 (PDT) Received: from cmgw14.unifiedlayer.com (unknown [10.9.0.14]) by gproxy7.mail.unifiedlayer.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7974B2169D5 for ; Wed, 29 May 2019 21:01:10 -0600 (MDT) Received: from box313.bluehost.com ([69.89.31.113]) by cmsmtp with ESMTP id WBJWhf7weXFO5WBJWhBLSZ; Wed, 29 May 2019 21:01:10 -0600 X-Authority-Reason: nr=8 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; q=dns/txt; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=labn.net; s=default; h=Content-Transfer-Encoding:Content-Type:In-Reply-To:MIME-Version :Date:Message-ID:References:Cc:To:From:Subject:Sender:Reply-To:Content-ID: Content-Description:Resent-Date:Resent-From:Resent-Sender:Resent-To:Resent-Cc :Resent-Message-ID:List-Id:List-Help:List-Unsubscribe:List-Subscribe: List-Post:List-Owner:List-Archive; bh=tiiuNNBc5yBJ1FwR09FLG2jOhq2tvtgRoxCLDrNxveo=; b=zocvRQuQCCl0dmNXVqIiuq8W4F ucwrDI4a4TCpu2EfsZW/8X1GXnAjXy8xqmGFToJrS2gQDTL8F9Ufrhl+Ec5rqOUNOlEaywFZxQ1LZ SXyRng7iRlQwonjju+80b61Fk; Received: from pool-72-66-11-201.washdc.fios.verizon.net ([72.66.11.201]:45214 helo=[IPv6:::1]) by box313.bluehost.com with esmtpsa (TLSv1.2:ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256:128) (Exim 4.91) (envelope-from ) id 1hWBJW-00154B-4d; Wed, 29 May 2019 21:01:10 -0600 From: Lou Berger To: NetMod WG Cc: NetMod WG Chairs References: Message-ID: <3361a263-4e2c-a61b-a0ca-8b1c4dd3c26e@labn.net> Date: Wed, 29 May 2019 23:01:09 -0400 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 10.0; WOW64; rv:60.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/60.3.1 MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Content-Language: en-US X-AntiAbuse: This header was added to track abuse, please include it with any abuse report X-AntiAbuse: Primary Hostname - box313.bluehost.com X-AntiAbuse: Original Domain - ietf.org X-AntiAbuse: Originator/Caller UID/GID - [47 12] / [47 12] X-AntiAbuse: Sender Address Domain - labn.net X-BWhitelist: no X-Source-IP: 72.66.11.201 X-Source-L: No X-Exim-ID: 1hWBJW-00154B-4d X-Source: X-Source-Args: X-Source-Dir: X-Source-Sender: pool-72-66-11-201.washdc.fios.verizon.net ([IPv6:::1]) [72.66.11.201]:45214 X-Source-Auth: lberger@labn.net X-Email-Count: 1 X-Source-Cap: bGFibm1vYmk7bGFibm1vYmk7Ym94MzEzLmJsdWVob3N0LmNvbQ== X-Local-Domain: yes Archived-At: Subject: Re: [netmod] WG Last Call: draft-ietf-netmod-artwork-folding-02 X-BeenThere: netmod@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: NETMOD WG list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 30 May 2019 03:02:31 -0000 All,     The WG LC is closed. Authors,     Please continue resolving the raised issues on the list, and let the WG know once a version that addresses all raised issues has been uploaded/published.  Also please also summarize any includes changes that were not otherwise discussed on-list. Thank you! Lou On 5/12/2019 5:19 PM, Lou Berger wrote: > All, > > This starts a two-week working group last call for > draft-ietf-netmod-artwork-folding-02 > > The working group last call ends on May 27. > Please send your comments to the working group mailing list. > > Positive comments, e.g., "I've reviewed this document > and believe it is ready for publication", are welcome! > This is useful and important, even from authors. > > Thank you, > NetMod Chairs > > > > _______________________________________________ > netmod mailing list > netmod@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/netmod > From nobody Thu May 30 07:31:09 2019 Return-Path: X-Original-To: netmod@ietf.org Delivered-To: netmod@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from ietfa.amsl.com (localhost [IPv6:::1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id F1AE4120182; Thu, 30 May 2019 07:30:58 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: internet-drafts@ietf.org To: Cc: netmod@ietf.org X-Test-IDTracker: no X-IETF-IDTracker: 6.97.0 Auto-Submitted: auto-generated Precedence: bulk Reply-To: netmod@ietf.org Message-ID: <155922665888.22158.34610875303939053@ietfa.amsl.com> Date: Thu, 30 May 2019 07:30:58 -0700 Archived-At: Subject: [netmod] I-D Action: draft-ietf-netmod-artwork-folding-03.txt X-BeenThere: netmod@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 List-Id: NETMOD WG list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 30 May 2019 14:30:59 -0000 A New Internet-Draft is available from the on-line Internet-Drafts directories. This draft is a work item of the Network Modeling WG of the IETF. Title : Handling Long Lines in Inclusions in Internet-Drafts and RFCs Authors : Kent Watsen Adrian Farrel Qin Wu Filename : draft-ietf-netmod-artwork-folding-03.txt Pages : 25 Date : 2019-05-30 Abstract: This document defines two strategies for handling long lines in width-bounded text content. One strategy is based on the historic use of a single backslash ('\') character to indicate where line- folding has occurred, with the continuation occurring with the first non-space (' ') character on the next line. The second strategy extends the first strategy by adding a second backslash character to identify where the continuation begins and thereby able to handle cases not supported by the first strategy. Both strategies use a self-describing header enabling automated reconstitution of the original content. The IETF datatracker status page for this draft is: https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-netmod-artwork-folding/ There are also htmlized versions available at: https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-netmod-artwork-folding-03 https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/html/draft-ietf-netmod-artwork-folding-03 A diff from the previous version is available at: https://www.ietf.org/rfcdiff?url2=draft-ietf-netmod-artwork-folding-03 Please note that it may take a couple of minutes from the time of submission until the htmlized version and diff are available at tools.ietf.org. Internet-Drafts are also available by anonymous FTP at: ftp://ftp.ietf.org/internet-drafts/ From nobody Thu May 30 07:41:33 2019 Return-Path: <0100016b0930277d-e4cf4cc9-3be1-45c7-9ca1-505ccc8e59ea-000000@amazonses.watsen.net> X-Original-To: netmod@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: netmod@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6A80A12028E; Thu, 30 May 2019 07:41:24 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.896 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.896 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_NONE=0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (1024-bit key) header.d=amazonses.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id b3xmEqv0dENC; Thu, 30 May 2019 07:41:21 -0700 (PDT) Received: from a8-32.smtp-out.amazonses.com (a8-32.smtp-out.amazonses.com [54.240.8.32]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id DFA0B12023C; Thu, 30 May 2019 07:41:20 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; q=dns/txt; c=relaxed/simple; s=6gbrjpgwjskckoa6a5zn6fwqkn67xbtw; d=amazonses.com; t=1559227279; h=From:Message-Id:Content-Type:Mime-Version:Subject:Date:In-Reply-To:Cc:To:References:Feedback-ID; bh=9f7TR+yQES3dYhidUnjUAhURK4O1acH3ga21wEv8guw=; b=SQz6XTTsteMF5rJjNvIjX+E65eMwf1WFTGOR5K5Y16V3AYHiscBX/JU727W1zNoh eKV3t1ak4PfIeTIuHA5Y1IcTA07JyCQWEjYFAogPmrHG1Zb+u77jJe5zZMoG1bjboNH VlkgmErcPfRvaUjsGmgjP+G1x6u/sFNLRZmWGcEs= From: Kent Watsen Message-ID: <0100016b0930277d-e4cf4cc9-3be1-45c7-9ca1-505ccc8e59ea-000000@email.amazonses.com> Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="Apple-Mail=_BF4DAF78-2AFB-42B8-AD22-B0A3B66396AE" Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 12.4 \(3445.104.11\)) Date: Thu, 30 May 2019 14:41:19 +0000 In-Reply-To: <155922665888.22158.34610875303939053@ietfa.amsl.com> Cc: i-d-announce@ietf.org To: "netmod@ietf.org" References: <155922665888.22158.34610875303939053@ietfa.amsl.com> X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.3445.104.11) X-SES-Outgoing: 2019.05.30-54.240.8.32 Feedback-ID: 1.us-east-1.DKmIRZFhhsBhtmFMNikgwZUWVrODEw9qVcPhqJEI2DA=:AmazonSES Archived-At: Subject: Re: [netmod] I-D Action: draft-ietf-netmod-artwork-folding-03.txt X-BeenThere: netmod@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: NETMOD WG list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 30 May 2019 14:41:31 -0000 --Apple-Mail=_BF4DAF78-2AFB-42B8-AD22-B0A3B66396AE Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii This update reflects the changes discussed during the Last Call plus the = following additional changes: 1) s/see if any/ensure at least one/ (EDITORIAL: sounded too casual = before) 2) s/MUST NOT precede a space (' ') character/MUST NOT be on top of a = space (' ') character/ (TECHNICAL: see below) 3) wrapped the script with and (EDITORIAL, = per idnits) Regarding #2, this change was made after I examined the algorithm more = carefully. It would be good for others to confirm this rather critical = change. Thanks, Kent // contributor > On May 30, 2019, at 10:30 AM, internet-drafts@ietf.org wrote: >=20 >=20 > A New Internet-Draft is available from the on-line Internet-Drafts = directories. > This draft is a work item of the Network Modeling WG of the IETF. >=20 > Title : Handling Long Lines in Inclusions in = Internet-Drafts and RFCs > Authors : Kent Watsen > Adrian Farrel > Qin Wu > Filename : draft-ietf-netmod-artwork-folding-03.txt > Pages : 25 > Date : 2019-05-30 >=20 > Abstract: > This document defines two strategies for handling long lines in > width-bounded text content. One strategy is based on the historic > use of a single backslash ('\') character to indicate where line- > folding has occurred, with the continuation occurring with the first > non-space (' ') character on the next line. The second strategy > extends the first strategy by adding a second backslash character to > identify where the continuation begins and thereby able to handle > cases not supported by the first strategy. Both strategies use a > self-describing header enabling automated reconstitution of the > original content. >=20 >=20 > The IETF datatracker status page for this draft is: > https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-netmod-artwork-folding/ >=20 > There are also htmlized versions available at: > https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-netmod-artwork-folding-03 > = https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/html/draft-ietf-netmod-artwork-folding-03= >=20 > A diff from the previous version is available at: > https://www.ietf.org/rfcdiff?url2=3Ddraft-ietf-netmod-artwork-folding-03= >=20 >=20 > Please note that it may take a couple of minutes from the time of = submission > until the htmlized version and diff are available at tools.ietf.org. >=20 > Internet-Drafts are also available by anonymous FTP at: > ftp://ftp.ietf.org/internet-drafts/ >=20 > _______________________________________________ > netmod mailing list > netmod@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/netmod --Apple-Mail=_BF4DAF78-2AFB-42B8-AD22-B0A3B66396AE Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/html; charset=us-ascii

This update reflects the = changes discussed during the Last Call plus the following additional = changes:

  = 1) s/see if any/ensure at least one/  (EDITORIAL: sounded too = casual before)
  2) s/MUST = NOT precede a space (' ') character/MUST NOT be on = top of a space (' ') character/  (TECHNICAL: see = below)
  3) wrapped the script with <CODE = BEGINS> and <CODE ENDS> (EDITORIAL, per idnits)

Regarding #2, this = change was made after I examined the algorithm more carefully.  It = would be good for others to confirm this rather critical = change.

Thanks,
Kent // contributor



On May = 30, 2019, at 10:30 AM, internet-drafts@ietf.org wrote:


A New Internet-Draft is available from the on-line = Internet-Drafts directories.
This draft is a work item of = the Network Modeling WG of the IETF.

=        Title =           : Handling = Long Lines in Inclusions in Internet-Drafts and RFCs
=        Authors =         : Kent Watsen
=             &n= bsp;           &nbs= p;Adrian Farrel
=             &n= bsp;           &nbs= p;Qin Wu
Filename =        : = draft-ietf-netmod-artwork-folding-03.txt
Pages =           : 25
= Date =            : = 2019-05-30

Abstract:
=   This document defines two strategies for handling long lines = in
  width-bounded text content.  One = strategy is based on the historic
  use of a = single backslash ('\') character to indicate where line-
=   folding has occurred, with the continuation occurring with = the first
  non-space (' ') character on the = next line.  The second strategy
  extends = the first strategy by adding a second backslash character to
  identify where the continuation begins and = thereby able to handle
  cases not supported by = the first strategy.  Both strategies use a
=   self-describing header enabling automated reconstitution of = the
  original content.


The IETF datatracker status page for this = draft is:
https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-netmod-artwork-fold= ing/

There are also htmlized versions = available at:
https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-netmod-artwork-folding-0= 3
https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/html/draft-ietf-netmod-artwork= -folding-03

A diff from the previous = version is available at:
https://www.ietf.org/rfcdiff?url2=3Ddraft-ietf-netmod-artwork-f= olding-03


Please note that = it may take a couple of minutes from the time of submission
until the htmlized version and diff are available at = tools.ietf.org.

Internet-Drafts are also = available by anonymous FTP at:
ftp://ftp.ietf.org/internet-drafts/

_______________________________________________
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netmod@ietf.org
https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/netmod

= --Apple-Mail=_BF4DAF78-2AFB-42B8-AD22-B0A3B66396AE-- From nobody Thu May 30 09:11:11 2019 Return-Path: X-Original-To: netmod@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: netmod@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9B435120120 for ; Thu, 30 May 2019 09:11:10 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: 0.949 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=0.949 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DOS_OUTLOOK_TO_MX=2.845, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_NONE=0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=no autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id nisTOSlYaHw9 for ; Thu, 30 May 2019 09:11:09 -0700 (PDT) Received: from hickoryhill-consulting.com (50-245-122-100-static.hfc.comcastbusiness.net [50.245.122.100]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 4D585120141 for ; Thu, 30 May 2019 09:11:09 -0700 (PDT) X-Default-Received-SPF: pass (skip=forwardok (res=PASS)) x-ip-name=174.124.223.16; From: "Susan Hares" To: "'Kent Watsen'" , References: <0100016a996e6b55-6274d956-7a6e-4d56-b88b-524723053cdb-000000@email.amazonses.com> In-Reply-To: <0100016a996e6b55-6274d956-7a6e-4d56-b88b-524723053cdb-000000@email.amazonses.com> Date: Thu, 30 May 2019 12:11:05 -0400 Message-ID: <00a701d51702$494c0570$dbe41050$@ndzh.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_00A8_01D516E0.C23BC500" X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook 14.0 Thread-Index: AQDdvtVLM/V8nXA8NQDGiSRNrF6kJ6hyhjnw Content-Language: en-us X-Antivirus: AVG (VPS 190530-2, 05/30/2019), Outbound message X-Antivirus-Status: Not-Tested X-Authenticated-User: skh@ndzh.com Archived-At: Subject: Re: [netmod] Adoption poll for draft-wu-netmod-factory-default-03 X-BeenThere: netmod@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: NETMOD WG list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 30 May 2019 16:11:10 -0000 This is a multipart message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_00A8_01D516E0.C23BC500 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I have not seen the announcement for this adoption - so I'm sending the support for adoption. Sue From: netmod [mailto:netmod-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of Kent Watsen Sent: Wednesday, May 8, 2019 5:52 PM To: netmod@ietf.org Subject: [netmod] Adoption poll for draft-wu-netmod-factory-default-03 This email begins a 1-week adoption poll for: https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-wu-netmod-factory-default-03 As we already have consensus from the previous poll to work on the problem, this poll primarily seeks for objections for using -03 as a basis for WG adoption (the document will be adopted if no objections are raised). Of course, a show of support is also always encouraged. All, please voice your support or objections before May 15. Authors, already there have been good comments for how to improve the document. However, please refrain from posting an update incorporating these comments until after this adoption poll closes, at which time the instruction will be to post a -00 with minimal changes, followed by a -01 incorporating the comments. PS: the IPR poll conducted on Mar 25 is still considered valid. Kent // co-chair ------=_NextPart_000_00A8_01D516E0.C23BC500 Content-Type: text/html; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

I have not seen the announcement for this adoption – so = I’m sending the support for adoption.

 

Sue

 

From:= = netmod [mailto:netmod-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of Kent = Watsen
Sent: Wednesday, May 8, 2019 5:52 PM
To: = netmod@ietf.org
Subject: [netmod] Adoption poll for = draft-wu-netmod-factory-default-03

 

This email begins a = 1-week adoption poll for:

 

    h= ttps://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-wu-netmod-factory-default-03<= o:p>

As we already = have consensus from the previous poll to work on the problem, this = poll primarily seeks for objections for using -03 as a basis for WG = adoption (the document will be adopted if no objections are = raised).  Of course, a show of support is also always encouraged. =   All, please voice your support or objections before May = 15.   

 

Authors, already there = have been good comments for how to improve the document.  However, = please refrain from posting an update incorporating these = comments until after this adoption poll closes, at which time the = instruction will be to post a -00 with minimal changes, followed by a = -01 incorporating the comments.

 

PS: the IPR poll = conducted on Mar 25 is still considered = valid.


Kent  // = co-chair

 

 

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