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X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-userprincipalname: ietfc@btconnect.com X-MS-Exchange-Transport-CrossTenantHeadersStamped: VI1PR07MB1040 Archived-At: Subject: Re: [netmod] [Teas] Key collision between configured and ephemeral list entries X-BeenThere: netmod@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: NETMOD WG list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sun, 02 Jun 2019 11:09:34 -0000 LS0tLS0gT3JpZ2luYWwgTWVzc2FnZSAtLS0tLQ0KRnJvbTogIkl0YWxvIEJ1c2kiIDxJdGFsby5C dXNpQGh1YXdlaS5jb20+DQpTZW50OiBXZWRuZXNkYXksIE1heSAyOSwgMjAxOSA3OjAwIFBNDQoN Cj4gUm9iLCBUYXJlaywNCj4NCj4gVGhhbmtzIGZvciBmb2xsb3dpbmctdXAgdGhpcyBkaXNjdXNz aW9uDQo+DQo+IEkgbGlrZSB0aGUgc3VnZ2VzdGlvbiB0byB1c2UgYSBwcmVmaXggc3RyaW5nOiB0 aG9zZSB3aG8gcHJlZmVycyB1c2luZw0Kb25lIGNoYXJhY3RlciAoZS5nLiwgJyMnKSBjb3VsZCB1 c2UgYSBzaW5nbGUgY2hhcmFjdGVyIHN0cmluZw0KPg0KPiBSZWdhcmRpbmcgdGhlIGNvbmZpZ3Vy YXRpb24sIG9uZSBwb3NzaWJsZSBpc3N1ZSB0aGF0IGp1c3QganVtcGVkIGludG8NCm15IG1pbmQg 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Server (version=TLS1_2, cipher=TLS_ECDHE_RSA_WITH_AES_256_GCM_SHA384) id 15.20.1943.22; Wed, 5 Jun 2019 20:27:00 +0000 Received: from DM5PR11MB1594.namprd11.prod.outlook.com ([fe80::18d2:79b3:f4eb:f522]) by DM5PR11MB1594.namprd11.prod.outlook.com ([fe80::18d2:79b3:f4eb:f522%3]) with mapi id 15.20.1943.023; Wed, 5 Jun 2019 20:27:00 +0000 From: "Joe Clarke (jclarke)" To: "netmod@ietf.org" Thread-Topic: Update to YANG versioning requirements draft Thread-Index: AQHVG90HQHpQrTqkYEa9jsagplEOfQ== Date: Wed, 5 Jun 2019 20:26:59 +0000 Message-ID: <303DBE1C-C010-4978-9C01-8001BF160C74@cisco.com> Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: authentication-results: spf=none (sender IP is ) smtp.mailfrom=jclarke@cisco.com; x-originating-ip: [2001:420:c0c4:1001::3e7] x-ms-publictraffictype: Email x-ms-office365-filtering-correlation-id: af22dfdf-3339-40f2-fbd5-08d6e9f429cc x-microsoft-antispam: BCL:0; PCL:0; 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H:DM5PR11MB1594.namprd11.prod.outlook.com; FPR:; SPF:None; LANG:en; PTR:InfoNoRecords; MX:1; A:1; received-spf: None (protection.outlook.com: cisco.com does not designate permitted sender hosts) x-ms-exchange-senderadcheck: 1 x-microsoft-antispam-message-info: 6yAYPKHf7OQD2NzsQm4DjEs/9FX/MY0Za+UvCh3sAzQsDfNNswbuq98lnKtgqcGBvo+yrKPDgIjAFOp1denwd2C/ZQduqZTAo7KuGvV0DxnuqJhzRFhbglxuKgk/zza+LF5Jyy99wnFg4NmuX68XeZjv44aQTYp7EHDrUiAmyo/2CV8fVoddhiRiXqeO4PusLkN3dwr7475NMKvKJJmrOhrKf7l98pEuF9+tF/LkL70yu+J600JFgtQbjU+yTWloifCVliHY5kDkEtj4GG/LdNHURbUjOrwJHuCa1B4Aw/RpYjn0QD1ZcL2+WGGKc3ayR0q6h+eDlhbH6sobm3ho8PubOgecJ2+zSsi90DrS9fcLp6NSXzNQzw+/uQ7DoGbnEmhM4AupxBco5Bax571M6RDF56ea/2GBvEI81Pxd72s= Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-ID: Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable MIME-Version: 1.0 X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-Network-Message-Id: af22dfdf-3339-40f2-fbd5-08d6e9f429cc X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-originalarrivaltime: 05 Jun 2019 20:27:00.0073 (UTC) X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-fromentityheader: Hosted X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-id: 5ae1af62-9505-4097-a69a-c1553ef7840e X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-mailboxtype: HOSTED X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-userprincipalname: jclarke@cisco.com X-MS-Exchange-Transport-CrossTenantHeadersStamped: DM5PR11MB1243 X-OriginatorOrg: cisco.com X-Outbound-SMTP-Client: 173.37.102.23, xch-rcd-013.cisco.com X-Outbound-Node: alln-core-8.cisco.com Archived-At: Subject: [netmod] Update to YANG versioning requirements draft X-BeenThere: netmod@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: NETMOD WG list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 05 Jun 2019 20:27:05 -0000 Coming out of IETF 104, there was feedback that the YANG version requiremen= ts draft (draft-ietf-netmod-yang-versioning-reqs) needed a wording change t= o requirement 1.4. I have made the change I think addresses the feedback, = and I would like to get thoughts on this wording and publish a rev -01 if p= eople are okay with it. CURRENT OLD TEXT: 1.4 The solution MUST allow for backwards-compatible enhancements and bug fixes, as well as non-backwards- compatible bug fixes in non-latest-release modules. PROPOSED NEW TEXT: 1.4 The solution MUST be able to express when non-backwards- compatible changes have occurred between two revisions of a given YANG module. Thanks. Joe= From nobody Thu Jun 6 03:41:22 2019 Return-Path: X-Original-To: netmod@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: netmod@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id AB83B120158 for ; Thu, 6 Jun 2019 03:41:20 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.9 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.9 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (1024-bit key) header.d=kamstrup.onmicrosoft.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id W8KSC_ghKdLs for ; Thu, 6 Jun 2019 03:41:18 -0700 (PDT) Received: from EUR03-VE1-obe.outbound.protection.outlook.com (mail-eopbgr50105.outbound.protection.outlook.com [40.107.5.105]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 2B70712007C for ; Thu, 6 Jun 2019 03:41:18 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=kamstrup.onmicrosoft.com; s=selector2-kamstrup-onmicrosoft-com; h=From:Date:Subject:Message-ID:Content-Type:MIME-Version:X-MS-Exchange-SenderADCheck; bh=IfnlMQPRFiiFdLdxbwfnJWaXQY9xiGScWSG1TW18W4M=; b=gjqJe7avVwdtihpuG1+Xx24Voti7A2qnkuuMMMLNpf5rXRxXsS07idaldtxMFj34WlDCv9dopoUlAOUx0IdXIkDWuxI6RczZm2xu47/RlJAZtBHhVUUwGd5SOlKJZ/CqWn084Zz0QfOvPRdBAX99WHZ3tayS+tq1YiJBxswf8So= Received: from AM6PR04MB6360.eurprd04.prod.outlook.com (10.255.168.81) by AM6PR04MB4679.eurprd04.prod.outlook.com (20.177.39.18) with Microsoft SMTP Server (version=TLS1_2, cipher=TLS_ECDHE_RSA_WITH_AES_256_GCM_SHA384) id 15.20.1965.14; Thu, 6 Jun 2019 10:41:15 +0000 Received: from AM6PR04MB6360.eurprd04.prod.outlook.com ([fe80::cd8a:99b5:1981:c764]) by AM6PR04MB6360.eurprd04.prod.outlook.com ([fe80::cd8a:99b5:1981:c764%7]) with mapi id 15.20.1965.011; Thu, 6 Jun 2019 10:41:15 +0000 From: Karen Elisabeth Egede Nielsen To: "steve.baillargeon@ericsson.com" , "netmod@ietf.org" Thread-Topic: Ip layer statistics in Yang ? 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X-BeenThere: netmod@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: NETMOD WG list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 06 Jun 2019 10:41:21 -0000 --_000_AM6PR04MB6360C825C575DC53F0DE481AC9170AM6PR04MB6360eurp_ Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hi Steve, All I hope that you may advice on this issue. I am looking for the YANG modeling of the IP "interface" statistics (aka RF= C4293) and stumbled over the now expired individual contribution https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-baill-netmod-yang-ip-stats-01 which does not seem to have progressed. RFC8343 refers to RFC2863. Is it correctly understood that the RFC8343 refers to the network layer int= erfaces only and would not attempt to cover the IP layer statistics ? Or is it alternatively so that in an interface layering model it is intende= d for that RFC4383 would model IP layer statistics also (with the granulari= ty provided of RFC8343, which does not go to the same level of detail as RFC4293/the draft above). Many Thanks in advance BR, Karen --_000_AM6PR04MB6360C825C575DC53F0DE481AC9170AM6PR04MB6360eurp_ Content-Type: text/html; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

Hi Steve, All

 

I hope that you may advice on this issue.<= /o:p>

 

I am looking for the YANG modeling of the IP &#= 8220;interface” statistics (aka RFC4293)  and stumbled over the = now expired individual contribution

htt= ps://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-baill-netmod-yang-ip-stats-01

which does not seem to have progressed.

 

RFC8343 refers to RFC2863.

Is it correctly understood that the RFC8343 ref= ers to the network layer interfaces only and would not attempt to cover the= IP layer statistics ?

 

Or is it alternatively so that in an interface = layering model it is intended for that RFC4383 would model IP layer statist= ics also (with the granularity provided of RFC8343, which

does not go to the same level of detail as RFC4= 293/the draft above).

 

Many Thanks in advance

 

BR, Karen

 

 

--_000_AM6PR04MB6360C825C575DC53F0DE481AC9170AM6PR04MB6360eurp_-- From nobody Sun Jun 9 07:35:33 2019 Return-Path: X-Original-To: netmod@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: netmod@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3DF78120075; Sun, 9 Jun 2019 07:35:25 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.998 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.998 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=gmail.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id AcH7uFTF_Iti; Sun, 9 Jun 2019 07:35:23 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail-io1-xd2d.google.com (mail-io1-xd2d.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:4864:20::d2d]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 4ABDB12006F; Sun, 9 Jun 2019 07:35:23 -0700 (PDT) Received: by mail-io1-xd2d.google.com with SMTP id m24so4968830ioo.2; Sun, 09 Jun 2019 07:35:23 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20161025; h=mime-version:from:date:message-id:subject:to; bh=jQ1ACFjPCRkbtmAVS4VcBtSIY/tdv/64gqXUDCG2F/8=; b=H9WnYkkcR3roN1xqWROvm0XUrxRiTi+uB9Jm9YQ1bQuA0G9SJNTRcODHQMRUcFY4tP fx2ujEZf5pMhEgT23pIxM7HcXHqChvUQdmK+ZiK1m0vKoyV1a4ZgovhF+fa0xgWy/zfR yQNiQkiHguBoLlIYE2B791cHWV1P8yoJ+ok7yw8RB6lg7L1/O86OWx79wiUSJ8xqhkHB YlM225PUlCHuX9PbJ2o8GFe0PjM78wxAkrXqXVmF553W8AwxDfsR7YoxXaWOXFs8pto/ F/XMHHEpL3oZ4FEl2Gm8v2WrETYnFzaK7QioVv1hzN2MQp3AzZ58O6CAqskqDMpLXanO LCMw== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:from:date:message-id:subject:to; bh=jQ1ACFjPCRkbtmAVS4VcBtSIY/tdv/64gqXUDCG2F/8=; b=WKNuba5pCJaOvpcbYAd6RXuRG5Vi5dNO3PufRaS0xDM1iVqU8LWDUHWsN1Pcz1fIgm nBdBNdYNaPhBvwUPXKiE7fCjq5VmYQ8aMY5UIVxjlt6yI90qsNaFU2Cn82prO0cKBmRG hXg1fGNjVqDrZPg5MokavGK+f9F+3gPNysLFhYUnpLHBhRHOP7oNqXFQV9k1QJzNO/qD Xxz5mYR5KUpudSkQ/gb0ed+yS5i//AFvx+P6HDAVolmM8DdWCLue3fTlKeiryp6u05v8 tMqvWQlnEkfdoMwEe1podXgFCbNlUC69DzPk7qUTvpjJCw7vjsZpUvgfv+C1KyCxvaO0 ea8Q== X-Gm-Message-State: APjAAAXxxyNP0egpCfXBJ1zy3L33PuEBea7fzMA488ZDXQwT9M5UVAkL q49Svp4iqAd3rtk6oZp/i3s3U1XQmjbvDMzSSVIJhvGB X-Google-Smtp-Source: APXvYqy7WApeahtrfgosbKX6lDj9GO0hmEGgr7T6yXv0wglA07y/9Kr1261sfNgVFEYFAtYs7H1eLI3FO/E3YC9CeC8= X-Received: by 2002:a6b:b804:: with SMTP id i4mr25947472iof.119.1560090922310; Sun, 09 Jun 2019 07:35:22 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 From: Xufeng Liu Date: Sun, 9 Jun 2019 10:35:11 -0400 Message-ID: To: lsr@ietf.org, NETMOD WG Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="0000000000003e00da058ae4f90b" Archived-At: Subject: [netmod] A question on the parameter overriding in draft-ietf-isis-yang-isis-cfg X-BeenThere: netmod@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: NETMOD WG list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sun, 09 Jun 2019 14:35:25 -0000 --0000000000003e00da058ae4f90b Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable In Section 2.3. and many other locations, the current IS-IS model applies the parameter overriding rule as below: [Quote]: 2.3 . Per-Level Parameters Some parameters allow a per level configuration. In this case, the parameter is modeled as a container with three configuration locations: o a top-level container: corresponds to level-1-2, so the configuration applies to both levels. o a level-1 container: corresponds to level-1 specific parameters. o a level-2 container: corresponds to level-2 specific parameters. +--rw priority | +--rw value? uint8 | +--rw level-1 | | +--rw value? uint8 | +--rw level-2 | +--rw value? uint8 Example: 250 100 200 An implementation SHOULD prefer a level specific parameter over a level-all parameter. As example, if the priority is 100 for the level-1, 200 for the level-2 and 250 for the top-level configuration, the implementation should use 100 for the level-1 and 200 for the level-2. [End of Quote] In the model, all three value leaves above have a default statement =E2=80=9Cdefault 64=E2=80=9D, which brings up my question for the following= example: 250 100 The user does not provide a configured value for level-2. According to Section 7.6.1. of RFC7950, because the default value is in use, =E2=80=9Cth= e server MUST operationally behave as if the leaf was present in the data tree with the default value as its value=E2=80=9D. This means the priority value for = level-2 will be 64 (the default value), so the value 250 can never take effect as intended in the above quoted Section 2.3. Is my understanding correct? Since this is a generic question, I am CC=E2=80=99ing NETMOD WG too. Thanks, - Xufeng --0000000000003e00da058ae4f90b Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

In Section 2.3. and many other locations, the current IS-IS model= applies the parameter overriding rule as below:

[Quote]:

2.3.  Per-L=
evel Parameters


   Some parameters allow a per level configuration.  In this case, the
   parameter is modeled as a container with three configuration
   locations:

   o  a top-level container: corresponds to level-1-2, so the
      configuration applies to both levels.

   o  a level-1 container: corresponds to level-1 specific parameters.

   o  a level-2 container: corresponds to level-2 specific parameters.

               +--rw priority
               |  +--rw value?     uint8
               |  +--rw level-1
               |  |  +--rw value?   uint8
               |  +--rw level-2
               |     +--rw value?   uint8

   Example:

           <priority>
               <value>250</value>
               <level-1>
                   <value>100</value>
               </level-1>
               <level-2>
                   <value>200</value>
               </level-2>
           </priority>

   An implementation SHOULD prefer a level specific parameter over a
   level-all parameter.  As example, if the priority is 100 for the
   level-1, 200 for the level-2 and 250 for the top-level configuration,
   the implementation should use 100 for the level-1 and 200 for the
   level-2.

[End of Qu= ote]


In the model, all three val= ue leaves above have a default statement =E2=80=9Cdefault 64=E2=80=9D, whic= h brings up my question for the following example:


           <priority>
               <value>250</value>
               <level-1>
                   <value>100</value>
               </level-1>
           </priority>


The user does not provide a= configured value for level-2. According to Section 7.6.1. of RFC7950, beca= use the default value is in use, =E2=80=9Cthe server MUST operationally beh= ave as if the leaf was present in the data tree with the default value as i= ts value=E2=80=9D. This means the priority value for level-2 will be 64 (th= e default value), so the value 250 can never take effect as intended in the= above quoted Section 2.3.


Is my understanding correct= ?


Since this is a generic que= stion, I am CC=E2=80=99ing NETMOD WG too.


Thanks,

- Xufeng


--0000000000003e00da058ae4f90b-- From nobody Sun Jun 9 08:28:38 2019 Return-Path: X-Original-To: netmod@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: netmod@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id E46BA12006E; Sun, 9 Jun 2019 08:28:36 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.898 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.898 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_NONE=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id rIFxLBvwa1aR; Sun, 9 Jun 2019 08:28:34 -0700 (PDT) Received: from atlas5.jacobs-university.de (atlas5.jacobs-university.de [212.201.44.20]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ADH-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 493F1120019; Sun, 9 Jun 2019 08:28:33 -0700 (PDT) Received: from localhost (demetrius5.irc-it.jacobs-university.de [10.70.0.222]) by atlas5.jacobs-university.de (Postfix) with ESMTP id B4A3B6E5; Sun, 9 Jun 2019 17:28:31 +0200 (CEST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at jacobs-university.de Received: from atlas5.jacobs-university.de ([10.70.0.198]) by localhost (demetrius5.jacobs-university.de [10.70.0.222]) (amavisd-new, port 10032) with ESMTP id CAb834kAxwS3; Sun, 9 Jun 2019 17:28:31 +0200 (CEST) Received: from hermes.jacobs-university.de (hermes.jacobs-university.de [212.201.44.23]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (Client CN "hermes.jacobs-university.de", Issuer "DFN-Verein Global Issuing CA" (verified OK)) by atlas5.jacobs-university.de (Postfix) with ESMTPS; Sun, 9 Jun 2019 17:28:31 +0200 (CEST) Received: from localhost (demetrius5.irc-it.jacobs-university.de [10.70.0.222]) by hermes.jacobs-university.de (Postfix) with ESMTP id 71C0A20128; Sun, 9 Jun 2019 17:28:31 +0200 (CEST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at jacobs-university.de Received: from hermes.jacobs-university.de ([212.201.44.23]) by localhost (demetrius5.jacobs-university.de [10.70.0.222]) (amavisd-new, port 10028) with ESMTP id naplHbpaZC0f; Sun, 9 Jun 2019 17:28:31 +0200 (CEST) Received: from exchange.jacobs-university.de (sxchmb03.jacobs.jacobs-university.de [10.70.0.155]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (Client CN "exchange.jacobs-university.de", Issuer "DFN-Verein Global Issuing CA" (verified OK)) by hermes.jacobs-university.de (Postfix) with ESMTPS id C1E2420126; Sun, 9 Jun 2019 17:28:30 +0200 (CEST) Received: from anna.localdomain (10.50.218.117) by sxchmb03.jacobs.jacobs-university.de (10.70.0.155) with Microsoft SMTP Server (version=TLS1_2, cipher=TLS_ECDHE_RSA_WITH_AES_256_GCM_SHA384) id 15.1.1713.5; Sun, 9 Jun 2019 17:28:30 +0200 Received: by anna.localdomain (Postfix, from userid 501) id B9B843009FDC37; Sun, 9 Jun 2019 17:28:29 +0200 (CEST) Date: Sun, 9 Jun 2019 17:28:29 +0200 From: Juergen Schoenwaelder To: Xufeng Liu CC: , NETMOD WG Message-ID: <20190609152829.r25rkc4gevnzgcka@anna.jacobs.jacobs-university.de> Reply-To: Juergen Schoenwaelder Mail-Followup-To: Xufeng Liu , lsr@ietf.org, NETMOD WG References: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: User-Agent: NeoMutt/20180716 X-ClientProxiedBy: SXCHMB01.jacobs.jacobs-university.de (10.70.0.120) To sxchmb03.jacobs.jacobs-university.de (10.70.0.155) X-Clacks-Overhead: GNU Terry Pratchett Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Archived-At: Subject: Re: [netmod] A question on the parameter overriding in draft-ietf-isis-yang-isis-cfg X-BeenThere: netmod@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: NETMOD WG list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sun, 09 Jun 2019 15:28:37 -0000 Hi, YANG does not have 'levels'. This seems to be an ISIS specific question you should ask on the ISIS list. /js On Sun, Jun 09, 2019 at 10:35:11AM -0400, Xufeng Liu wrote: > In Section 2.3. and many other locations, the current IS-IS model appli= es > the parameter overriding rule as below: >=20 > [Quote]: >=20 > 2.3 . > Per-Level Parameters >=20 >=20 > Some parameters allow a per level configuration. In this case, the > parameter is modeled as a container with three configuration > locations: >=20 > o a top-level container: corresponds to level-1-2, so the > configuration applies to both levels. >=20 > o a level-1 container: corresponds to level-1 specific parameters. >=20 > o a level-2 container: corresponds to level-2 specific parameters. >=20 > +--rw priority > | +--rw value? uint8 > | +--rw level-1 > | | +--rw value? uint8 > | +--rw level-2 > | +--rw value? uint8 >=20 > Example: >=20 > > 250 > > 100 > > > 200 > > >=20 > An implementation SHOULD prefer a level specific parameter over a > level-all parameter. As example, if the priority is 100 for the > level-1, 200 for the level-2 and 250 for the top-level configuration= , > the implementation should use 100 for the level-1 and 200 for the > level-2. >=20 > [End of Quote] >=20 >=20 > In the model, all three value leaves above have a default statement > =E2=80=9Cdefault 64=E2=80=9D, which brings up my question for the follo= wing example: >=20 >=20 > > 250 > > 100 > > >=20 >=20 > The user does not provide a configured value for level-2. According to > Section 7.6.1. of RFC7950, because the default value is in use, =E2=80=9C= the server > MUST operationally behave as if the leaf was present in the data tree w= ith > the default value as its value=E2=80=9D. This means the priority value = for level-2 > will be 64 (the default value), so the value 250 can never take effect = as > intended in the above quoted Section 2.3. >=20 >=20 > Is my understanding correct? >=20 >=20 > Since this is a generic question, I am CC=E2=80=99ing NETMOD WG too. >=20 >=20 > Thanks, >=20 > - Xufeng > _______________________________________________ > netmod mailing list > netmod@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/netmod --=20 Juergen Schoenwaelder Jacobs University Bremen gGmbH Phone: +49 421 200 3587 Campus Ring 1 | 28759 Bremen | Germany Fax: +49 421 200 3103 From nobody Sun Jun 9 10:08:00 2019 Return-Path: X-Original-To: netmod@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: netmod@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 19FD31200E3 for ; Sun, 9 Jun 2019 10:07:58 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.898 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.898 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_NONE=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); 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Sun, 9 Jun 2019 19:07:50 +0200 (CEST) (envelope-from per@hedeland.org) To: netmod@ietf.org References: <20190609152829.r25rkc4gevnzgcka@anna.jacobs.jacobs-university.de> From: Per Hedeland Message-ID: Date: Sun, 9 Jun 2019 19:07:49 +0200 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; FreeBSD amd64; rv:60.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/60.6.1 MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: <20190609152829.r25rkc4gevnzgcka@anna.jacobs.jacobs-university.de> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=windows-1252; format=flowed Content-Language: en-US Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Archived-At: Subject: Re: [netmod] A question on the parameter overriding in draft-ietf-isis-yang-isis-cfg X-BeenThere: netmod@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: NETMOD WG list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sun, 09 Jun 2019 17:07:58 -0000 On 2019-06-09 17:28, Juergen Schoenwaelder wrote: > > YANG does not have 'levels'. This seems to be an ISIS specific > question you should ask on the ISIS list. AFAIK, this list is not restricted to discussions of what YANG "is" or "has", but also covers (at least) how YANG can be used, and what the semantics of various YANG usage patterns are. I think there is a generic YANG question in the problem described, and possibly even an indication that the wording in the spec is overly restrictive. > On Sun, Jun 09, 2019 at 10:35:11AM -0400, Xufeng Liu wrote: >> In Section 2.3. and many other locations, the current IS-IS model applies >> the parameter overriding rule as below: >> >> [Quote]: >> >> 2.3 . >> Per-Level Parameters >> >> >> Some parameters allow a per level configuration. In this case, the >> parameter is modeled as a container with three configuration >> locations: >> >> o a top-level container: corresponds to level-1-2, so the >> configuration applies to both levels. >> >> o a level-1 container: corresponds to level-1 specific parameters. >> >> o a level-2 container: corresponds to level-2 specific parameters. >> >> +--rw priority >> | +--rw value? uint8 >> | +--rw level-1 >> | | +--rw value? uint8 >> | +--rw level-2 >> | +--rw value? uint8 >> >> Example: >> >> >> 250 >> >> 100 >> >> >> 200 >> >> >> >> An implementation SHOULD prefer a level specific parameter over a >> level-all parameter. As example, if the priority is 100 for the >> level-1, 200 for the level-2 and 250 for the top-level configuration, >> the implementation should use 100 for the level-1 and 200 for the >> level-2. >> >> [End of Quote] >> >> >> In the model, all three value leaves above have a default statement >> default 64, which brings up my question for the following example: So, to give an actual YANG snippet for this example, it would be container priority { leaf value { type uint8; default 64; } container level-1 { leaf value { type uint8; default 64; } } container level-2 { leaf value { type uint8; default 64; } } } >> >> 250 >> >> 100 >> >> >> >> >> The user does not provide a configured value for level-2. According to >> Section 7.6.1. of RFC7950, because the default value is in use, "the server >> MUST operationally behave as if the leaf was present in the data tree with >> the default value as its value". This means the priority value for level-2 >> will be 64 (the default value), so the value 250 can never take effect as >> intended in the above quoted Section 2.3. Obviously there is at least a deficiency in the description, since it makes no sense with your (justifiable) interpretation. I think it is clear that the *intent* is that the value 250 should take effect for level-2 in this case (and I think that this is a very valid design). That intent could have been made clear by saying "if the priority is *configured* as 100" instead of just "if the priority is 100", since the "is" applies equally well to a "default value in effect" and a configured value. But this would seem to violate the statement in RFC 7950, since it actually does say that the value 64 MUST be used for level-2 in this case. Maybe it should have some conditional like "unless otherwise specified" or something - but IMHO it's entirely reasonable that the "overall system" behaves differently depending on whether the value for a specific leaf is actually configured or is just a "default-in-effect". Then again, in this case one could question what the point of the default values for the level-1 and level-2 leafs is. Removing them would mean that without values configured, they would use the "toplevel" value, whether default or configured - and since the defaults *in this case* are all the same, it would amount to the exactly the intent I assume above, but without any violation of the 7950 statement. However with different defaults, it is not as straightforward - say e.g. container priority { leaf value { type uint8; } container level-1 { leaf value { type uint8; default 32; } } container level-2 { leaf value { type uint8; default 64; } } } IMHO, it would make perfect sense (assuming of course that it is documented) for the system to in this case behave like configured "toplevel" configured level-2 use for level-2 1) nothing nothing 64 2) 250 nothing 250 3) irrelevant 128 128 And then the case 2) would again seem to violate the 7950 statement. --Per >> Is my understanding correct? >> >> >> Since this is a generic question, I am CCing NETMOD WG too. >> >> >> Thanks, >> >> - Xufeng From nobody Sun Jun 9 19:37:36 2019 Return-Path: X-Original-To: netmod@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: netmod@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 845411200C4; Sun, 9 Jun 2019 19:37:26 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com 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+0100 Received: from lhreml706-chm.china.huawei.com (10.201.108.55) by lhreml706-chm.china.huawei.com (10.201.108.55) with Microsoft SMTP Server (version=TLS1_2, cipher=TLS_ECDHE_RSA_WITH_AES_128_CBC_SHA256_P256) id 15.1.1713.5; Mon, 10 Jun 2019 03:37:21 +0100 Received: from NKGEML412-HUB.china.huawei.com (10.98.56.73) by lhreml706-chm.china.huawei.com (10.201.108.55) with Microsoft SMTP Server (version=TLS1_0, cipher=TLS_ECDHE_RSA_WITH_AES_128_CBC_SHA_P256) id 15.1.1713.5 via Frontend Transport; Mon, 10 Jun 2019 03:37:21 +0100 Received: from NKGEML513-MBX.china.huawei.com ([169.254.1.182]) by nkgeml412-hub.china.huawei.com ([10.98.56.73]) with mapi id 14.03.0415.000; Mon, 10 Jun 2019 10:37:14 +0800 From: Qin Wu To: Juergen Schoenwaelder , Xufeng Liu CC: "lsr@ietf.org" , NETMOD WG Thread-Topic: [netmod] A question on the parameter overriding in draft-ietf-isis-yang-isis-cfg Thread-Index: AdUfNMAudOA6KCdISCWw7MDlQqFz2g== Date: Mon, 10 Jun 2019 02:37:13 +0000 Message-ID: Accept-Language: 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[46.21.102.45]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id E7894120096; Mon, 10 Jun 2019 01:04:54 -0700 (PDT) Received: from localhost (unknown [173.38.220.61]) by mail.tail-f.com (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 2262D1AE0B11; Mon, 10 Jun 2019 10:04:53 +0200 (CEST) Date: Mon, 10 Jun 2019 10:04:56 +0200 (CEST) Message-Id: <20190610.100456.969581487209060819.mbj@tail-f.com> To: bill.wu@huawei.com Cc: j.schoenwaelder@jacobs-university.de, xufeng.liu.ietf@gmail.com, lsr@ietf.org, netmod@ietf.org From: Martin Bjorklund In-Reply-To: References: X-Mailer: Mew version 6.7 on Emacs 25.2 / Mule 6.0 (HANACHIRUSATO) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: Text/Plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 Archived-At: Subject: Re: [netmod] A question on the parameter overriding in draft-ietf-isis-yang-isis-cfg X-BeenThere: netmod@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: NETMOD WG list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 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X19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX18NCj4gbmV0bW9kIG1haWxpbmcgbGlz dA0KPiBuZXRtb2RAaWV0Zi5vcmcNCj4gaHR0cHM6Ly93d3cuaWV0Zi5vcmcvbWFpbG1hbi9saXN0 aW5mby9uZXRtb2QNCj4gX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19f X19fX18NCj4gbmV0bW9kIG1haWxpbmcgbGlzdA0KPiBuZXRtb2RAaWV0Zi5vcmcNCj4gaHR0cHM6 Ly93d3cuaWV0Zi5vcmcvbWFpbG1hbi9saXN0aW5mby9uZXRtb2QNCg== From nobody Mon Jun 10 01:08:07 2019 Return-Path: X-Original-To: netmod@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: netmod@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 49ADA12012D for ; Mon, 10 Jun 2019 01:08:06 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.9 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.9 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id DSLXRdS7QHHo for ; Mon, 10 Jun 2019 01:08:05 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail.tail-f.com (mail.tail-f.com [46.21.102.45]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id C6ADF120127 for ; Mon, 10 Jun 2019 01:08:04 -0700 (PDT) Received: from localhost (unknown [173.38.220.61]) by mail.tail-f.com (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id BAD5A1AE0B20; Mon, 10 Jun 2019 10:08:03 +0200 (CEST) Date: Mon, 10 Jun 2019 10:08:07 +0200 (CEST) Message-Id: <20190610.100807.195515691614191218.mbj@tail-f.com> To: KEE@kamstrup.com Cc: steve.baillargeon@ericsson.com, netmod@ietf.org From: Martin Bjorklund In-Reply-To: References: X-Mailer: Mew version 6.7 on Emacs 25.2 / Mule 6.0 (HANACHIRUSATO) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: Text/Plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Archived-At: Subject: Re: [netmod] Ip layer statistics in Yang ? X-BeenThere: netmod@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: NETMOD WG list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 10 Jun 2019 08:08:06 -0000 Hi, Karen Elisabeth Egede Nielsen wrote: > Hi Steve, All > > I hope that you may advice on this issue. > > I am looking for the YANG modeling of the IP "interface" statistics > (aka RFC4293) and stumbled over the now expired individual > contribution > https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-baill-netmod-yang-ip-stats-01 > which does not seem to have progressed. > > RFC8343 refers to RFC2863. > Is it correctly understood that the RFC8343 refers to the network > layer interfaces only and would not attempt to cover the IP layer > statistics ? Yes. For additional IP-specific statistics, something like the model in the draft above is needed. /martin > Or is it alternatively so that in an interface layering model it is > intended for that RFC4383 would model IP layer statistics also (with > the granularity provided of RFC8343, which > does not go to the same level of detail as RFC4293/the draft above). > > Many Thanks in advance > > BR, Karen > > From nobody Mon Jun 10 04:43:12 2019 Return-Path: X-Original-To: netmod@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: netmod@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id C8DCD12016B for ; Mon, 10 Jun 2019 04:43:10 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.011 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.011 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, T_DKIMWL_WL_HIGH=-0.01] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (1024-bit key) header.d=ericsson.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id y7fkZlizHiKd for ; Mon, 10 Jun 2019 04:43:08 -0700 (PDT) Received: from NAM03-BY2-obe.outbound.protection.outlook.com (mail-eopbgr780055.outbound.protection.outlook.com [40.107.78.55]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 40573120045 for ; Mon, 10 Jun 2019 04:43:08 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=ericsson.com; s=selector2; h=From:Date:Subject:Message-ID:Content-Type:MIME-Version:X-MS-Exchange-SenderADCheck; bh=ndFr29y9VFcf250sSLNUyw/w+ZNzcWx+0jI2FyQJ2Ds=; b=YaZ6CKeX8cJoLdwhijDwRU7zfFOsn8sPkmScEoVANDBGqUiJ46z1k7AFwCULORNDMFHxxCv2CI2OsnAV9PPITpAHMwduEefVp2ggOA9MCbP8n2/YV0QiB95Nux+Ztl/sD5reG09Kjl9tmYxV1szdw/Ip6FyVP/2Bn3bcKqKnMHE= Received: from CH2PR15MB3527.namprd15.prod.outlook.com (10.255.155.156) by CH2PR15MB3558.namprd15.prod.outlook.com (52.132.228.11) with Microsoft SMTP Server (version=TLS1_2, cipher=TLS_ECDHE_RSA_WITH_AES_256_GCM_SHA384) id 15.20.1965.14; Mon, 10 Jun 2019 11:43:06 +0000 Received: from CH2PR15MB3527.namprd15.prod.outlook.com ([fe80::a5ab:66ad:7d07:75e8]) by CH2PR15MB3527.namprd15.prod.outlook.com ([fe80::a5ab:66ad:7d07:75e8%5]) with mapi id 15.20.1965.017; Mon, 10 Jun 2019 11:43:06 +0000 From: Steve Baillargeon To: Martin Bjorklund , "KEE@kamstrup.com" CC: "netmod@ietf.org" Thread-Topic: [netmod] Ip layer statistics in Yang ? Thread-Index: AdUcUoviV4/lNmU/TAaHTb106XyYQwDERbeAAAdKt/A= Date: Mon, 10 Jun 2019 11:43:06 +0000 Message-ID: References: <20190610.100807.195515691614191218.mbj@tail-f.com> In-Reply-To: <20190610.100807.195515691614191218.mbj@tail-f.com> Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: authentication-results: spf=none (sender IP is ) smtp.mailfrom=steve.baillargeon@ericsson.com; x-originating-ip: [74.56.176.169] x-ms-publictraffictype: Email x-ms-office365-filtering-correlation-id: 92ee54f7-a57d-4d18-2367-08d6ed98cde4 x-microsoft-antispam: BCL:0; PCL:0; RULEID:(2390118)(7020095)(4652040)(8989299)(4534185)(4627221)(201703031133081)(201702281549075)(8990200)(5600148)(711020)(4605104)(1401327)(2017052603328)(7193020); SRVR:CH2PR15MB3558; x-ms-traffictypediagnostic: CH2PR15MB3558: x-ms-exchange-purlcount: 1 x-microsoft-antispam-prvs: x-ms-oob-tlc-oobclassifiers: OLM:8273; x-forefront-prvs: 0064B3273C x-forefront-antispam-report: SFV:NSPM; SFS:(10009020)(346002)(376002)(136003)(396003)(366004)(39850400004)(13464003)(51874003)(189003)(199004)(4326008)(66446008)(186003)(66476007)(64756008)(66556008)(66066001)(66946007)(73956011)(966005)(25786009)(26005)(2501003)(76116006)(7696005)(6506007)(6306002)(53546011)(6246003)(110136005)(55016002)(554214002)(33656002)(9686003)(76176011)(14454004)(53936002)(99286004)(478600001)(6436002)(102836004)(86362001)(256004)(14444005)(305945005)(52536014)(2906002)(229853002)(5660300002)(68736007)(316002)(74316002)(81166006)(8676002)(476003)(11346002)(71200400001)(71190400001)(8936002)(44832011)(446003)(81156014)(486006)(6116002)(7736002)(3846002); DIR:OUT; SFP:1101; SCL:1; SRVR:CH2PR15MB3558; H:CH2PR15MB3527.namprd15.prod.outlook.com; FPR:; SPF:None; LANG:en; PTR:InfoNoRecords; MX:1; A:1; received-spf: None (protection.outlook.com: ericsson.com does not designate permitted sender hosts) x-ms-exchange-senderadcheck: 1 x-microsoft-antispam-message-info: a/o3PX1gx+XPoaOrHqi1wUsu4+zHE4wJQI9bZvfd0WZ5ZJ/yF9A9sGcV5iKURWRC0TsmW/DjOMRNczUnug/AC+jrYZBiMMC0ix+rRNVN1P2MqarcRO9BtyvhkVW70/j56tTzj+ik0Dteuty/32zBLN0H5n+ANKLy9f9Vd4moa/NpHjHa8cUqmuVCLejnp+gH1/8tq80if6Vnx1LLgY0t+Ocner9vRrzosMQift6/JL0/yB31LI4xWu2vD/jAtveQkXOFoRI7m4X/VovCryOMJtVwnlszLmLcaOFtWUXiRHXZqFELQXKTH87o3hHLxk+pqXa9bn21WLzG6T3HBVnKM+3JN0PFcaH3kUfsdITx+zZ0R8sspcb4rOrNAKX9WpEPYQ1mAg7jYqaQwMHka9Jdkd+rFpxGyREQpTzXg5VuStg= Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable MIME-Version: 1.0 X-OriginatorOrg: ericsson.com X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-Network-Message-Id: 92ee54f7-a57d-4d18-2367-08d6ed98cde4 X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-originalarrivaltime: 10 Jun 2019 11:43:06.3606 (UTC) X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-fromentityheader: Hosted X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-id: 92e84ceb-fbfd-47ab-be52-080c6b87953f X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-mailboxtype: HOSTED X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-userprincipalname: steve.baillargeon@ericsson.com X-MS-Exchange-Transport-CrossTenantHeadersStamped: CH2PR15MB3558 Archived-At: Subject: Re: [netmod] Ip layer statistics in Yang ? X-BeenThere: netmod@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: NETMOD WG list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 10 Jun 2019 11:43:11 -0000 Hi Should draft-baill-netmod-yang-ip-stats be revived to eventually become a w= orking group draft? Looking at my old notes, I think it just requires a few modifications... -Steve -----Original Message----- From: Martin Bjorklund =20 Sent: Monday, June 10, 2019 4:08 AM To: KEE@kamstrup.com Cc: Steve Baillargeon ; netmod@ietf.org Subject: Re: [netmod] Ip layer statistics in Yang ? Hi, Karen Elisabeth Egede Nielsen wrote: > Hi Steve, All >=20 > I hope that you may advice on this issue. >=20 > I am looking for the YANG modeling of the IP "interface" statistics=20 > (aka RFC4293) and stumbled over the now expired individual=20 > contribution > https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-baill-netmod-yang-ip-stats-01 > which does not seem to have progressed. >=20 > RFC8343 refers to RFC2863. > Is it correctly understood that the RFC8343 refers to the network=20 > layer interfaces only and would not attempt to cover the IP layer=20 > statistics ? Yes. For additional IP-specific statistics, something like the model in th= e draft above is needed. /martin > Or is it alternatively so that in an interface layering model it is=20 > intended for that RFC4383 would model IP layer statistics also (with=20 > the granularity provided of RFC8343, which does not go to the same=20 > level of detail as RFC4293/the draft above). >=20 > Many Thanks in advance >=20 > BR, Karen >=20 >=20 From nobody Tue Jun 11 06:44:01 2019 Return-Path: X-Original-To: netmod@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: netmod@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 44CBC12016A; Tue, 11 Jun 2019 06:44:00 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.998 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.998 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=gmail.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id vBBDIAt4m7Mr; Tue, 11 Jun 2019 06:43:57 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail-io1-xd2f.google.com (mail-io1-xd2f.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:4864:20::d2f]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id B669A120167; Tue, 11 Jun 2019 06:43:57 -0700 (PDT) Received: by mail-io1-xd2f.google.com with SMTP id h6so9935492ioh.3; Tue, 11 Jun 2019 06:43:57 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20161025; h=mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date:message-id:subject:to :cc; bh=xn13vOJqVILcaezLg3sF/J2pIWtxjq9sPfMLMXTtIVw=; b=EpFOThOO2vKAhGRlc+qUS7hlx8fjoek91JdxMne9TsNMkkdxSyfAoeFbLRG1SjQnux xQd9rWTx3c0Z8APXv7mKs7/DNM1A95kZ0waWy3MXrNhzznVqqK4Rro+gjHuqKiL06XTe y5QsajOnYQQMcHB1fAAhEMlfxkjCBkKUvXmuwYTP9S0xFwaUbZ4tEHuBO/tGxT5Q5ytV 2K8UozH0YpNpcvLUWJox61WfH5LGzKIyCXlx53JLhpU9yY7OFTmkhs8fBemI5e8cIej3 2ofqLulcJ+RZagab/4qd8NePz8PjfWU0YZrlSOPy9WgjHdHj+8iglR1QtAf77xv/1cgi /BmA== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date :message-id:subject:to:cc; bh=xn13vOJqVILcaezLg3sF/J2pIWtxjq9sPfMLMXTtIVw=; b=Pq0rtTPtWJccxzMDYnsax7xlBAMqEgezzsQm7SUqaf2MZBiQEwHKyIzREnhxjnx2NI C2vPBfW7B/3QGNhWcdqFB9xgQwY1M1Nd6bu9gIT2ITSV8nD5BMWjXpJh9QnbURwTWL0S 3C5t9RBaB58eaaXTzAkthkcdQo+drkuX8qnz0PXhrf0gatqzkn5rk9ajOlWclmw8+9gR wtgeno+yz8iNQXuPRP7kYWtZoOQE3h45RTpPy7241rWLRrmjlmha1sXG/mgjR8C/6mMf oVNnuh0GwCG65EsMTo4zOYfFCO1etvaGoeBwtS6mfgU6YwdjMQ4DUYx3MbevMO49HRY0 In1w== X-Gm-Message-State: APjAAAXi7x6ebFIplp8QFJfZpAAeRXhFQY+H6CQhccWgnDMKrlV0NqKP 2R95mkfz5zK5PEz6GzLYV/koAdghdLTW5oIr03LjfQ== X-Google-Smtp-Source: APXvYqwsNiEWZNRYMhk/iF0zDTNMbrzO9Az5StOcyXuxdljlqAoVUe3F8nP8TMzsZ6ybqHagsFUcYM+h+2088tid1/U= X-Received: by 2002:a6b:bf01:: with SMTP id p1mr2918466iof.181.1560260636995; Tue, 11 Jun 2019 06:43:56 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 References: <20190609152829.r25rkc4gevnzgcka@anna.jacobs.jacobs-university.de> In-Reply-To: From: Xufeng Liu Date: Tue, 11 Jun 2019 09:43:46 -0400 Message-ID: To: Per Hedeland Cc: NETMOD WG , lsr@ietf.org Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="0000000000000671ef058b0c7db2" Archived-At: Subject: Re: [netmod] A question on the parameter overriding in draft-ietf-isis-yang-isis-cfg X-BeenThere: netmod@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: NETMOD WG list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 11 Jun 2019 13:44:00 -0000 --0000000000000671ef058b0c7db2 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Thank Per for the clear analysis. Since the current YANG RFC7950 does not have a formal way to specify the overriding rule, I agree that the best way is to remove the default statements from "level-1" and "level-2", as Per, Martin, and Rob suggested. Regards, - Xufeng [Forwarding Per's reply to LSR mailing list] On Sun, Jun 9, 2019 at 1:08 PM Per Hedeland wrote: > On 2019-06-09 17:28, Juergen Schoenwaelder wrote: > > > > YANG does not have 'levels'. This seems to be an ISIS specific > > question you should ask on the ISIS list. > > AFAIK, this list is not restricted to discussions of what YANG "is" or > "has", but also covers (at least) how YANG can be used, and what the > semantics of various YANG usage patterns are. I think there is a > generic YANG question in the problem described, and possibly even an > indication that the wording in the spec is overly restrictive. > > > On Sun, Jun 09, 2019 at 10:35:11AM -0400, Xufeng Liu wrote: > >> In Section 2.3. and many other locations, the current IS-IS model > applies > >> the parameter overriding rule as below: > >> > >> [Quote]: > >> > >> 2.3 < > https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-isis-yang-isis-cfg-35#section-2..3 > >. > >> Per-Level Parameters > >> > >> > >> Some parameters allow a per level configuration. In this case, the > >> parameter is modeled as a container with three configuration > >> locations: > >> > >> o a top-level container: corresponds to level-1-2, so the > >> configuration applies to both levels. > >> > >> o a level-1 container: corresponds to level-1 specific parameters. > >> > >> o a level-2 container: corresponds to level-2 specific parameters. > >> > >> +--rw priority > >> | +--rw value? uint8 > >> | +--rw level-1 > >> | | +--rw value? uint8 > >> | +--rw level-2 > >> | +--rw value? uint8 > >> > >> Example: > >> > >> > >> 250 > >> > >> 100 > >> > >> > >> 200 > >> > >> > >> > >> An implementation SHOULD prefer a level specific parameter over a > >> level-all parameter. As example, if the priority is 100 for the > >> level-1, 200 for the level-2 and 250 for the top-level > configuration, > >> the implementation should use 100 for the level-1 and 200 for the > >> level-2. > >> > >> [End of Quote] > >> > >> > >> In the model, all three value leaves above have a default statement > >> default 64 , which brings up my question for the following example: > > So, to give an actual YANG snippet for this example, it would be > > container priority { > leaf value { > type uint8; > default 64; > } > container level-1 { > leaf value { > type uint8; > default 64; > } > } > container level-2 { > leaf value { > type uint8; > default 64; > } > } > } > > >> > >> 250 > >> > >> 100 > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> The user does not provide a configured value for level-2. According to > >> Section 7.6.1. of RFC7950, because the default value is in use, "the > server > >> MUST operationally behave as if the leaf was present in the data tree > with > >> the default value as its value". This means the priority value for > level-2 > >> will be 64 (the default value), so the value 250 can never take effect > as > >> intended in the above quoted Section 2.3. > > Obviously there is at least a deficiency in the description, since it > makes no sense with your (justifiable) interpretation. I think it is > clear that the *intent* is that the value 250 should take effect for > level-2 in this case (and I think that this is a very valid design). > That intent could have been made clear by saying "if the priority is > *configured* as 100" instead of just "if the priority is 100", since > the "is" applies equally well to a "default value in effect" and a > configured value. > > But this would seem to violate the statement in RFC 7950, since it > actually does say that the value 64 MUST be used for level-2 in this > case. Maybe it should have some conditional like "unless otherwise > specified" or something - but IMHO it's entirely reasonable that the > "overall system" behaves differently depending on whether the value > for a specific leaf is actually configured or is just a > "default-in-effect". > > Then again, in this case one could question what the point of the > default values for the level-1 and level-2 leafs is. Removing them > would mean that without values configured, they would use the > "toplevel" value, whether default or configured - and since the > defaults *in this case* are all the same, it would amount to the > exactly the intent I assume above, but without any violation of the > 7950 statement. > > However with different defaults, it is not as straightforward - say > e.g. > > container priority { > leaf value { > type uint8; > } > container level-1 { > leaf value { > type uint8; > default 32; > } > } > container level-2 { > leaf value { > type uint8; > default 64; > } > } > } > > IMHO, it would make perfect sense (assuming of course that it is > documented) for the system to in this case behave like > > configured "toplevel" configured level-2 use for level-2 > > 1) nothing nothing 64 > 2) 250 nothing 250 > 3) irrelevant 128 128 > > And then the case 2) would again seem to violate the 7950 statement. > > --Per > > >> Is my understanding correct? > >> > >> > >> Since this is a generic question, I am CC ing NETMOD WG too. > >> > >> > >> Thanks, > >> > >> - Xufeng > > _______________________________________________ > netmod mailing list > netmod@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/netmod > --0000000000000671ef058b0c7db2 Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Thank Per for the clear analysis.=C2=A0 Since the cur= rent YANG RFC7950 does not have a formal way to specify the overriding rule= , I agree that the best way is to remove the default statements from "= level-1" and "level-2", as Per, Martin, and Rob suggested. <= br>

Regards,
- Xufeng

[Forwarding Per's reply to LSR mailing list]

<= /div>
On Su= n, Jun 9, 2019 at 1:08 PM Per Hedeland <per@hedeland.org> wrote:
On 2019-06-09 17:28, Juergen Schoenwaelder wrote:
>
> YANG does not have 'levels'. This seems to be an ISIS specific=
> question you should ask on the ISIS list.

AFAIK, this list is not restricted to discussions of what YANG "is&quo= t; or
"has", but also covers (at least) how YANG can be used, and what = the
semantics of various YANG usage patterns are. I think there is a
generic YANG question in the problem described, and possibly even an
indication that the wording in the spec is overly restrictive.

> On Sun, Jun 09, 2019 at 10:35:11AM -0400, Xufeng Liu wrote:
>> In Section 2.3. and many other locations, the current IS-IS model = applies
>> the parameter overriding rule as below:
>>
>> [Quote]:
>>
>> 2.3 <https://to= ols.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-isis-yang-isis-cfg-35#section-2..3>. >> Per-Level Parameters
>>
>>
>>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0Some parameters allow a per level configuration= .=C2=A0 In this case, the
>>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0parameter is modeled as a container with three = configuration
>>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0locations:
>>
>>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0o=C2=A0 a top-level container: corresponds to l= evel-1-2, so the
>>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 configuration applies to both levels. >>
>>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0o=C2=A0 a level-1 container: corresponds to lev= el-1 specific parameters.
>>
>>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0o=C2=A0 a level-2 container: corresponds to lev= el-2 specific parameters.
>>
>>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0+--rw= priority
>>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0|=C2= =A0 +--rw value?=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0uint8
>>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0|=C2= =A0 +--rw level-1
>>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0|=C2= =A0 |=C2=A0 +--rw value?=C2=A0 =C2=A0uint8
>>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0|=C2= =A0 +--rw level-2
>>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0|=C2= =A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0+--rw value?=C2=A0 =C2=A0uint8
>>
>>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0Example:
>>
>>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0<priority> >>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0<v= alue>250</value>
>>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0<l= evel-1>
>>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2= =A0 =C2=A0<value>100</value>
>>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0</= level-1>
>>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0<l= evel-2>
>>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2= =A0 =C2=A0<value>200</value>
>>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0</= level-2>
>>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0</priority> >>
>>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0An implementation SHOULD prefer a level specifi= c parameter over a
>>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0level-all parameter.=C2=A0 As example, if the p= riority is 100 for the
>>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0level-1, 200 for the level-2 and 250 for the to= p-level configuration,
>>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0the implementation should use 100 for the level= -1 and 200 for the
>>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0level-2.
>>
>> [End of Quote]
>>
>>
>> In the model, all three value leaves above have a default statemen= t
>>=C2=A0 default 64 , which brings up my question for the following e= xample:

So, to give an actual YANG snippet for this example, it would be

=C2=A0 =C2=A0container priority {
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0leaf value {
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0type uint8;
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0default 64;
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0}
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0container level-1 {
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0leaf value {
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0type uint8;
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0default 64;
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0}
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0}
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0container level-2 {
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0leaf value {
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0type uint8;
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0default 64;
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0}
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0}
=C2=A0 =C2=A0}

>>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0<priority> >>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0<v= alue>250</value>
>>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0<l= evel-1>
>>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2= =A0 =C2=A0<value>100</value>
>>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0</= level-1>
>>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0</priority> >>
>>
>> The user does not provide a configured value for level-2. Accordin= g to
>> Section 7.6.1. of RFC7950, because the default value is in use, &q= uot;the server
>> MUST operationally behave as if the leaf was present in the data t= ree with
>> the default value as its value". This means the priority valu= e for level-2
>> will be 64 (the default value), so the value 250 can never take ef= fect as
>> intended in the above quoted Section 2.3.

Obviously there is at least a deficiency in the description, since it
makes no sense with your (justifiable) interpretation. I think it is
clear that the *intent* is that the value 250 should take effect for
level-2 in this case (and I think that this is a very valid design).
That intent could have been made clear by saying "if the priority is *configured* as 100" instead of just "if the priority is 100"= ;, since
the "is" applies equally well to a "default value in effect&= quot; and a
configured value.

But this would seem to violate the statement in RFC 7950, since it
actually does say that the value 64 MUST be used for level-2 in this
case. Maybe it should have some conditional like "unless otherwise
specified" or something - but IMHO it's entirely reasonable that t= he
"overall system" behaves differently depending on whether the val= ue
for a specific leaf is actually configured or is just a
"default-in-effect".

Then again, in this case one could question what the point of the
default values for the level-1 and level-2 leafs is. Removing them
would mean that without values configured, they would use the
"toplevel" value, whether default or configured - and since the defaults *in this case* are all the same, it would amount to the
exactly the intent I assume above, but without any violation of the
7950 statement.

However with different defaults, it is not as straightforward - say
e.g.

=C2=A0 =C2=A0container priority {
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0leaf value {
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0type uint8;
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0}
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0container level-1 {
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0leaf value {
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0type uint8;
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0default 32;
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0}
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0}
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0container level-2 {
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0leaf value {
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0type uint8;
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0default 64;
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0}
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0}
=C2=A0 =C2=A0}

IMHO, it would make perfect sense (assuming of course that it is
documented) for the system to in this case behave like

=C2=A0 =C2=A0 configured "toplevel"=C2=A0 =C2=A0configured level-= 2=C2=A0 =C2=A0use for level-2

1)=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 nothing=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2= =A0 =C2=A0nothing=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A064<= br> 2)=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 250=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 = =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0nothing=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0= 250
3)=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0irrelevant=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 = =C2=A0 =C2=A0128=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 128=

And then the case 2) would again seem to violate the 7950 statement.

--Per

>> Is my understanding correct?
>>
>>
>> Since this is a generic question, I am CC ing NETMOD WG too.
>>
>>
>> Thanks,
>>
>> - Xufeng

_______________________________________________
netmod mailing list
netmod@ietf.org https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/netmod
--0000000000000671ef058b0c7db2-- From nobody Tue Jun 11 07:11:31 2019 Return-Path: X-Original-To: netmod@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: netmod@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5BF78120073 for ; Tue, 11 Jun 2019 07:11:21 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.898 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.898 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_NONE=0.001] autolearn=unavailable autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=outbound.mailhop.org Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 9Amp2p6gSss6 for ; Tue, 11 Jun 2019 07:11:20 -0700 (PDT) Received: from outbound1g.eu.mailhop.org (outbound1g.eu.mailhop.org [52.28.6.212]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id AF215120118 for ; Tue, 11 Jun 2019 07:11:18 -0700 (PDT) ARC-Seal: i=1; a=rsa-sha256; t=1560262276; cv=none; d=outbound.mailhop.org; s=arc-outbound20181012; b=gz7CR1j6oJjhy+XBUKyAZolObdED8lBKKEXruLLN4MG4wTAFIz/rtk+yaLyKgenvTykUwTeC9exPi onG+v6FGUr+acSvSsHqBBWNc6vKRUFH/AzuWY02sJCR+rEF9ffeQva7KEu/GXK8IA8KLzFZiaWzwTb KIVTQ4/6DOMTTZVKW6agZu3UbjaaaDalfIkG9rXah1uBI0WRfvEcnXk+IIO21QjOZWLMGixHnzpDQo /28HBGQzZ8H3Ylx4CV1HWN9e+541lFEHgM6tm/ArWaM9Vx17PtWQoH8CBDSqVw8rOfBpjEmSkl52XV tPcgkIicSZZWLqr12/Vf1I7pYoyhHKQ== ARC-Message-Signature: i=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=outbound.mailhop.org; s=arc-outbound20181012; h=content-transfer-encoding:content-type:in-reply-to:mime-version:date: message-id:from:references:cc:to:subject:dkim-signature:from; bh=jKXFrHK4ME68AYaCIEl1VAbwu6FkJQdIYsqCXFw52kM=; b=nBa8NLlWjL2GJvQgrfHycgJFj2uf8lHVe4h11EXH+MZllSvZJIhZt6rNnh+83x0jWJ6xkP3r0SGCX 9X9CaguOlRFXLimipNfvbCJBEUzwnjKtwMx9SwoukVUxJHWo8BeSLj3JLKXcC86CIEK3DdJbPRJmFN qfXhGMyrYYnlu6LCCZKOCslYVQtLRaMH/i7M5ObpDrZXl02kt+vlHQOB6MVUg8qMOu5U6Nh7LnneMF /JKtszpNprHbjh3HIvcgcfnZ0vOixc9E0S/9HW41yQFBL++1PwXoCTQeVVRF1qzbGXxAGJpnolE/PB 5YhCbcFKX7nZjGqwZ/P5Eo6aTDEeYYg== ARC-Authentication-Results: i=1; outbound3.eu.mailhop.org; spf=none smtp.mailfrom=hedeland.org smtp.remote-ip=81.228.155.78; dmarc=none header.from=hedeland.org; arc=none header.oldest-pass=0; DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=outbound.mailhop.org; s=dkim-high; h=content-transfer-encoding:content-type:in-reply-to:mime-version:date: message-id:from:references:cc:to:subject:from; bh=jKXFrHK4ME68AYaCIEl1VAbwu6FkJQdIYsqCXFw52kM=; b=HuktaH0SX2o54RMsAi0YEYbuLRe2wly891sROx7ZaCUBcCz4zp7o4dE6FSe9VzoKOvi5orhSHEV0I c7+vbAy8ctLg6UDPVS7+1iW+40WWpOeoKj4jJvlsp0uM0DEwN4/AIDZh0UGUhurudpLVvDsaMLRRgr DREE2Esu6Gb1nRg0MsXw0+RezanY3IufHAnfUZeOC9JbyxdXJqeLM9xbimtBfEVQMLMcKgszo+iEpV R6WQ3j4rwP4wVYG1SL/ALV5Yp08/hrxcx2C5vA5R8q3vU3M4k1msptuDpk7UeKX0uNs8BOjN/Pl/mk Fjufn7eeIbU1A0SepF80JiwmD0+gYJQ== X-MHO-RoutePath: cGVyaGVkZWxhbmQ= X-MHO-User: c4c77bae-8c52-11e9-91aa-b56e4e6b5865 X-Report-Abuse-To: https://support.duocircle.com/support/solutions/articles/5000540958-duocircle-standard-smtp-abuse-information X-Originating-IP: 81.228.155.78 X-Mail-Handler: DuoCircle Outbound SMTP Received: from hedeland.org (unknown [81.228.155.78]) by outbound3.eu.mailhop.org (Halon) with ESMTPSA id c4c77bae-8c52-11e9-91aa-b56e4e6b5865; Tue, 11 Jun 2019 14:11:13 +0000 (UTC) Received: from pluto.hedeland.org (pluto.hedeland.org [10.1.1.5]) by tellus.hedeland.org (8.15.2/8.15.2) with ESMTPS id x5BEBBS6066784 (version=TLSv1.2 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 bits=128 verify=NO); Tue, 11 Jun 2019 16:11:12 +0200 (CEST) (envelope-from per@hedeland.org) To: Xufeng Liu Cc: NETMOD WG , lsr@ietf.org References: <20190609152829.r25rkc4gevnzgcka@anna.jacobs.jacobs-university.de> From: Per Hedeland Message-ID: <9b40dedb-3fe9-bf32-aad9-e58d92b0f3a2@hedeland.org> Date: Tue, 11 Jun 2019 16:11:11 +0200 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; FreeBSD amd64; rv:60.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/60.6.1 MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=windows-1252; format=flowed Content-Language: en-US Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Archived-At: Subject: Re: [netmod] A question on the parameter overriding in draft-ietf-isis-yang-isis-cfg X-BeenThere: netmod@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: NETMOD WG list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 11 Jun 2019 14:11:21 -0000 On 2019-06-11 15:43, Xufeng Liu wrote: > Thank Per for the clear analysis. Since the current YANG RFC7950 does not have a formal way to specify the overriding rule, I agree that the best way is to remove the default statements from > "level-1" and "level-2", as Per, Martin, and Rob suggested. Yes, I agree - i.e. the wording "the server MUST operationally behave as if the leaf was present in the data tree with the default value as its value" in the spec is absolutely correct, and since this doesn't match the behavior you want to achieve, you can't use the 'default' statement. You should of course still *describe* the behavior, and text in a 'description' statement is just as "normative" as a 'default' statement, "just" not machine-readable. --Per > Regards, > - Xufeng > > [Forwarding Per's reply to LSR mailing list] > > On Sun, Jun 9, 2019 at 1:08 PM Per Hedeland > wrote: > > On 2019-06-09 17:28, Juergen Schoenwaelder wrote: > > > > YANG does not have 'levels'. This seems to be an ISIS specific > > question you should ask on the ISIS list. > > AFAIK, this list is not restricted to discussions of what YANG "is" or > "has", but also covers (at least) how YANG can be used, and what the > semantics of various YANG usage patterns are. I think there is a > generic YANG question in the problem described, and possibly even an > indication that the wording in the spec is overly restrictive. > > > On Sun, Jun 09, 2019 at 10:35:11AM -0400, Xufeng Liu wrote: > >> In Section 2.3. and many other locations, the current IS-IS model applies > >> the parameter overriding rule as below: > >> > >> [Quote]: > >> > >> 2.3 . > >> Per-Level Parameters > >> > >> > >> Some parameters allow a per level configuration. In this case, the > >> parameter is modeled as a container with three configuration > >> locations: > >> > >> o a top-level container: corresponds to level-1-2, so the > >> configuration applies to both levels. > >> > >> o a level-1 container: corresponds to level-1 specific parameters. > >> > >> o a level-2 container: corresponds to level-2 specific parameters. > >> > >> +--rw priority > >> | +--rw value? uint8 > >> | +--rw level-1 > >> | | +--rw value? uint8 > >> | +--rw level-2 > >> | +--rw value? uint8 > >> > >> Example: > >> > >> > >> 250 > >> > >> 100 > >> > >> > >> 200 > >> > >> > >> > >> An implementation SHOULD prefer a level specific parameter over a > >> level-all parameter. As example, if the priority is 100 for the > >> level-1, 200 for the level-2 and 250 for the top-level configuration, > >> the implementation should use 100 for the level-1 and 200 for the > >> level-2. > >> > >> [End of Quote] > >> > >> > >> In the model, all three value leaves above have a default statement > >> default 64 , which brings up my question for the following example: > > So, to give an actual YANG snippet for this example, it would be > > container priority { > leaf value { > type uint8; > default 64; > } > container level-1 { > leaf value { > type uint8; > default 64; > } > } > container level-2 { > leaf value { > type uint8; > default 64; > } > } > } > > >> > >> 250 > >> > >> 100 > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> The user does not provide a configured value for level-2. According to > >> Section 7.6.1. of RFC7950, because the default value is in use, "the server > >> MUST operationally behave as if the leaf was present in the data tree with > >> the default value as its value". This means the priority value for level-2 > >> will be 64 (the default value), so the value 250 can never take effect as > >> intended in the above quoted Section 2.3. > > Obviously there is at least a deficiency in the description, since it > makes no sense with your (justifiable) interpretation. I think it is > clear that the *intent* is that the value 250 should take effect for > level-2 in this case (and I think that this is a very valid design). > That intent could have been made clear by saying "if the priority is > *configured* as 100" instead of just "if the priority is 100", since > the "is" applies equally well to a "default value in effect" and a > configured value. > > But this would seem to violate the statement in RFC 7950, since it > actually does say that the value 64 MUST be used for level-2 in this > case. Maybe it should have some conditional like "unless otherwise > specified" or something - but IMHO it's entirely reasonable that the > "overall system" behaves differently depending on whether the value > for a specific leaf is actually configured or is just a > "default-in-effect". > > Then again, in this case one could question what the point of the > default values for the level-1 and level-2 leafs is. Removing them > would mean that without values configured, they would use the > "toplevel" value, whether default or configured - and since the > defaults *in this case* are all the same, it would amount to the > exactly the intent I assume above, but without any violation of the > 7950 statement. > > However with different defaults, it is not as straightforward - say > e.g. > > container priority { > leaf value { > type uint8; > } > container level-1 { > leaf value { > type uint8; > default 32; > } > } > container level-2 { > leaf value { > type uint8; > default 64; > } > } > } > > IMHO, it would make perfect sense (assuming of course that it is > documented) for the system to in this case behave like > > configured "toplevel" configured level-2 use for level-2 > > 1) nothing nothing 64 > 2) 250 nothing 250 > 3) irrelevant 128 128 > > And then the case 2) would again seem to violate the 7950 statement. > > --Per > > >> Is my understanding correct? > >> > >> > >> Since this is a generic question, I am CC ing NETMOD WG too. > >> > >> > >> Thanks, > >> > >> - Xufeng > > _______________________________________________ > netmod mailing list > netmod@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/netmod > From nobody Tue Jun 11 08:40:38 2019 Return-Path: X-Original-To: netmod@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: netmod@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9C71F12025F; Tue, 11 Jun 2019 08:40:28 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -4.201 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-4.201 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-2.3, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id syX5k8hfzyeA; Tue, 11 Jun 2019 08:40:24 -0700 (PDT) Received: from huawei.com (lhrrgout.huawei.com [185.176.76.210]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 790961201B8; Tue, 11 Jun 2019 08:40:24 -0700 (PDT) Received: from lhreml703-cah.china.huawei.com (unknown [172.18.7.108]) by Forcepoint Email with ESMTP id 1F63CCB32058A1F6F74B; Tue, 11 Jun 2019 16:40:22 +0100 (IST) Received: from LHREML504-MBS.china.huawei.com ([10.201.109.59]) by lhreml703-cah.china.huawei.com ([10.201.108.44]) with mapi id 14.03.0415.000; Tue, 11 Jun 2019 16:40:17 +0100 From: Italo Busi To: tom petch , Tarek Saad , "Rob Wilton (rwilton)" , "netmod@ietf.org" CC: "teas@ietf.org" Thread-Topic: [netmod] [Teas] Key collision between configured and ephemeral list entries Thread-Index: AQHVIGv3uNMq5vuvr0+PtfoTsE5mlA== Date: Tue, 11 Jun 2019 15:40:17 +0000 Message-ID: <91E3A1BD737FDF4FA14118387FF6766B2775CF49@lhreml504-mbs> References: <91E3A1BD737FDF4FA14118387FF6766B2774D314@lhreml504-mbs> <017f01d515f9$d0c662c0$4001a8c0@gateway.2wire.net> 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APjAAAXZSd5s9nwT0onfO+g97vQ308WsW5Iu5e0LIsA8kRw8on+WTsKc lRkTodH08Awd3Nk9Hz91AGeuuxD+uaI6sC1lcfEdCw== X-Google-Smtp-Source: APXvYqxtYCeEGaPuuKsBXygZwXmBTrsMmO8NDOGIp6huQIUPd8rWlSseA5xnlcZhnFARCNdK6Eg4H+DqgsAGsElwx6I= X-Received: by 2002:ac2:514b:: with SMTP id q11mr4408701lfd.33.1560268462701; Tue, 11 Jun 2019 08:54:22 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 References: <91E3A1BD737FDF4FA14118387FF6766B2774D314@lhreml504-mbs> <017f01d515f9$d0c662c0$4001a8c0@gateway.2wire.net> <91E3A1BD737FDF4FA14118387FF6766B2774DF6C@lhreml504-mbs> <062401d5160d$a568ea80$4001a8c0@gateway.2wire.net> <91E3A1BD737FDF4FA14118387FF6766B2774E51F@lhreml504-mbs> <028b01d51933$1015fa80$4001a8c0@gateway.2wire.net> <91E3A1BD737FDF4FA14118387FF6766B2775CF49@lhreml504-mbs> In-Reply-To: <91E3A1BD737FDF4FA14118387FF6766B2775CF49@lhreml504-mbs> From: Andy Bierman Date: Tue, 11 Jun 2019 08:54:11 -0700 Message-ID: To: Italo Busi Cc: tom petch , Tarek Saad , "Rob Wilton (rwilton)" , "netmod@ietf.org" , "teas@ietf.org" Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="00000000000079565f058b0e4f58" Archived-At: Subject: Re: [netmod] [Teas] Key collision between configured and ephemeral list entries X-BeenThere: netmod@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: NETMOD WG list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 11 Jun 2019 15:54:29 -0000 --00000000000079565f058b0e4f58 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable On Tue, Jun 11, 2019 at 8:40 AM Italo Busi wrote: > Hi Tom, > > My understanding is that the running DS contains only the list entries > configured by the client and therefore there is no key collision (the key > values are all assigned by the client) > > The issue is that the operational DS will contain two types of list > entries: > - list entries representing the applied configuration of the list entries > in the running DS (the key values are all assigned by the client) > - list entries representing ephemeral list entries representing dynamic > configuration (the key values are all assigned by the server) > > Without any rule, it is possible that the client and the server assigns > the same key value to two different list entries > > NMDA has the "origin" attribute so that it is clear to clients the source of the instances that are being used in . It doesn't matter if the data is a container, a list, etc. There can be only 1 instance that is being used by the server at a time (except for remnant config). There are no instance naming collisions within or . Only if you try to combine them, which is not how it works. The server chooses what to put in and sets the origin attribute accordingly. > If, as proposed below, the server assign key values ephemeral list entrie= s > using a prefix which is known to the client, the client can assign key > values to the configured list entries not using that prefix thus solving > any conflict > > I think this solution works as long as we understand how to make the > client aware of the prefix being used by the server > > My 2 cents > > Italo > > Andy > -----Original Message----- > From: tom petch [mailto:ietfc@btconnect.com] > Sent: domenica 2 giugno 2019 13:09 > To: Italo Busi ; Tarek Saad ; > Rob Wilton (rwilton) ; netmod@ietf.org > Cc: teas@ietf.org > Subject: Re: [netmod] [Teas] Key collision between configured and > ephemeral list entries > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Italo Busi" > Sent: Wednesday, May 29, 2019 7:00 PM > > > Rob, Tarek, > > > > Thanks for following-up this discussion > > > > I like the suggestion to use a prefix string: those who prefers using > one character (e.g., '#') could use a single character string > > > > Regarding the configuration, one possible issue that just jumped into > my mind is what happens when the prefix is (re-)configured by the client > after some ephemeral tunnels have been created ... > > Many years ago, there was a similar discussion about interface names whic= h > never really got resolved but which was a factor in driving NMDA. > Some boxes create their own interface names, others have interface names > configured; and with interfaces, there was a need to use a match of the > identifier to add configured attributes to a entry that the box had creat= ed > but to create a new entry if there was not a match. Roll on multiple > datastores. > > Which makes me ask; which datastores are we talking about? I know where > entries configured via NETCONF will go but which datastores will hold the > details of these ephemeral tunnels? Needs clarifying IMHO. > > Tom Petch > > > An alternative solution could be to let the server decide which prefix > to use (server implementation issue) and to provide a read-only YANG leaf > to report this information to the client, such that the client knows it > could not use this prefix for the configured tunnels > > > > My 2 cents > > > > Italo > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: Tarek Saad [mailto:tsaad.net@gmail.com] > > Sent: mercoled=C3=AC 29 maggio 2019 17:22 > > To: Rob Wilton (rwilton) ; tom petch > ; Italo Busi ; netmod@ietf.or= g > > Cc: teas@ietf.org > > Subject: Re: [Teas] [netmod] Key collision between configured and > ephemeral list entries > > > > Hi Rob, > > > > Inline.. > > > > =EF=BB=BFOn 5/29/19, 9:05 AM, "Teas on behalf of Rob Wilton (rwilton)" > wrote: > > > > Are these ephemeral tunnels created and named by the device > itself? > > [TS]: yes, some of those are auto-created by the device (e.g. > triggered by some local event). > > > > Possibly using a human readable prefix (or suffix) might be better > than using a symbol. > > > > E.g. perhaps a prefix of "sys-" as an abbreviation for system. > > [TS]: I tend to agree here. I had suggested making this prefix > configurable - not sure if this brings more trouble. > > > > [TS]: On a similar note, on the controller, some tunnels from > different ingress routers will be reported up to the controller. One way > to avoid collision of same tunnel name existing on multiple ingress > devices, we thought of is for that controller to (automatically) append t= he > ingress router name (or IP address) before consuming the reported tunnel > into the controller tunnel list. Thoughts? > > > > Regards, > > Tarek > > > > Thanks, > > Rob > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: Teas On Behalf Of tom petch > > Sent: 29 May 2019 12:04 > > To: Italo Busi ; netmod@ietf.org > > Cc: teas@ietf.org > > Subject: Re: [Teas] [netmod] Key collision between configured and > ephemeral list entries > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: "Italo Busi" > > Sent: Wednesday, May 29, 2019 11:02 AM > > > > Hi Tom, > > > > Thanks for your reply > > > > It seems to me that the text you have quoted is from: > > https://tools.ietf.org/html/rfc7950#section-6.2 > > > > If I can understand correctly, especially for section 6.2.1, this > constraints does not apply to name attributes whose syntax is defined as = a > string and used as key of a list, such as the tunnel list defined in the = TE > YANG model: > > > > | +--rw tunnel* [name] > > | | +--ro operational-state? identityref > > | | +--rw name string > > > > My understanding is that a tunnel list entry with a name starting > with '#' can exist in a YANG DS > > > > > > > > Italo > > > > Ah yes, my misunderstanding. 'string' type is a bit more flexible > i.e. > > > > The string built-in type represents human-readable strings in > YANG. > > Legal characters are the Unicode and ISO/IEC 10646 [ISO.10646] > > characters, including tab, carriage return, and line feed but > > excluding the other C0 control characters, the surrogate > blocks, and > > the noncharacters. > > > > Plenty of scope there! > > > > > > If this approach is taken, then I agree that hash is a good choice > as it stands out, unlike, say, underscore which vanishes in the line of > text. > > > > Tom Petch > > > > Thanks, Italo > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: tom petch [mailto:ietfc@btconnect.com] > > Sent: mercoled=C3=AC 29 maggio 2019 10:42 > > To: Italo Busi ; netmod@ietf.org > > Cc: teas@ietf.org > > Subject: Re: [netmod] Key collision between configured and > ephemeral list entries > > > > > > > > Tom Petch > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: "Italo Busi" > > To: > > Cc: > > Sent: Monday, May 27, 2019 2:16 PM > > Subject: [netmod] Key collision between configured and ephemeral > list entries > > > > > > On Friday within the TEAS WG, we have discussed an issue which > seems generic and therefore agreed to ask for guidelines to the Netmod WG > > > > In the TE YANG model we have defined a tunnel list with a name > attribute used as a key: > > > > | +--rw tunnel* [name] > > | | +--ro operational-state? identityref > > | | +--rw name string > > > > See: https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-teas-yang-te-21 > > > > The issue we are facing is how to avoid name collision between > configured and ephemeral tunnels. In other words, the issue we are trying > to address is how to avoid the client to assign to a configured tunnel a > name which have been already assigned by the server to another ephemeral > tunnel and vice-versa, in particular considering NMDA rules > > > > We believe that the issue is generic and apply to any configured > and ephemeral list entries > > > > Has this issue been already discussed/resolved in Netmod WG? > > > > If not, what is the Netmod WG opinion/suggestion? We are currently > considering the following option: > > > > Use a special character for ephemeral names - e.g. such names > always are prepended by special character "#" > > Make the special character changeable by configuration - the > default can be "#" and user can change if they desire.. > > > > > > > > If this is to conform with YANG 1.1, RFC7950, then the constraint > is > > > > Identifiers are used to identify different kinds of YANG items > by > > name. Each identifier starts with an uppercase or lowercase > ASCII > > letter or an underscore character, followed by zero or more > ASCII > > letters, digits, underscore characters, hyphens, and dots. > > > > > > No # (hash) anywhere so I suspect that a lot of tooling will fail > in an unpredictable way if it encounters an illegal character in an > identifier. > > > > Tom Petch > > > > > > Thanks, Italo > > > > Italo Busi > > Principal Optical Transport Network Research Engineer Huawei > Technologies Co., Ltd. > > Tel : +39 345 4721946 > > Email : italo.busi@huawei.com > > [cid:image002.png@01D5149F.354EF420] > > > > This e-mail and its attachments contain confidential information > from HUAWEI, which is intended only for the person or entity whose addres= s > is listed above. Any use of the information contained herein in any way > (including, but not limited to, total or partial disclosure, reproduction= , > or dissemination) by persons other than the intended > > recipient(s) is prohibited. If you receive this e-mail in error, > please notify the sender by phone or email immediately and delete it! > > > > From: Tarek Saad [mailto:tsaad.net@gmail.com] > > Sent: venerd=C3=AC 24 maggio 2019 23:13 > > To: Igor Bryskin ; Rakesh Gandhi > ; Xufeng ; Vishnu Pavan > Beeram ; Italo Busi > > Cc: teas@ietf.org > > Subject: Discussion on modelling container TE tunnels in YANG > > > > The team on "to" list met to discuss this subject topic. Notes > from today's discussion (please add if I missed): > > > > Name collision between configured and ephemeral tunnels: > > This is a generic problem in NMDA. > > How to handle collisions between configured and ephemeral (or > > auto-created) objects of a list, if the list uses the object > (string > > based) name as the key? > > Both configured and ephemeral can have the same object name but > they are different objects - how to avoid such collision. > > Proposed solution: > > Option 1: > > Use a special character for ephemeral names - e.g. such names > always are prepended by special character "#" > > Make the special character changeable by configuration - the > default can be "#" and user can change if they desire.. > > Others? > > AI (Italo): to send email to netmod group. > > > > Container TE tunnels discussion: > > - Container tunnels are grouping of tunnels between same > 2 > > endpoints to share incoming traffic towards the egress > > - Member tunnels of a container tunnel can be > > auto-created/deleted on-demand and controlled by thresholds > specified under the container > > - Some attributes may apply on the container tunnel and > > inherited down to member tunnels of the container > > - Q: Should model allow member tunnel to override > inherited > > attributes from container tunnel? > > - Q: Should all auto-created member tunnels of a > container have > > the same prefix/suffix - i..e prefix/suffix can be configurable > > > > Regards, > > Tarek > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------ > ------ > > -------- > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > > netmod mailing list > > > netmod@ietf.org > > > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/netmod > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > Teas mailing list > > Teas@ietf.org > > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/teas > > > > _______________________________________________ > > Teas mailing list > > Teas@ietf.org > > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/teas > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > netmod mailing list > netmod@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/netmod > --00000000000079565f058b0e4f58 Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable


=
On Tue, Jun 11, 2019 at 8:40 AM Italo= Busi <Italo.Busi@huawei.com> wrote:
Hi = Tom,

My understanding is that the running DS contains only the list entries conf= igured by the client and therefore there is no key collision (the key value= s are all assigned by the client)

The issue is that the operational DS will contain two types of list entries= :
- list entries representing the applied configuration of the list entries i= n the running DS (the key values are all assigned by the client)
- list entries representing ephemeral list entries representing dynamic con= figuration (the key values are all assigned by the server)

Without any rule, it is possible that the client and the server assigns the= same key value to two different list entries



<= div>
If, as proposed below, the server assign key values ephemeral list entries = using a prefix which is known to the client, the client can assign key valu= es to the configured list entries not using that prefix thus solving any co= nflict

I think this solution works as long as we understand how to make the client= aware of the prefix being used by the server

My 2 cents

Italo



=C2=A0
-----Original Message-----
From: tom petch [mailto:ietfc@btconnect.com]
Sent: domenica 2 giugno 2019 13:09
To: Italo Busi <Italo.Busi@huawei.com>; Tarek Saad <tsaad.net@gmail.com>; Rob Wilton (rwi= lton) <rwilton@ci= sco.com>; netmo= d@ietf.org
Cc: teas@ietf.org Subject: Re: [netmod] [Teas] Key collision between configured and ephemeral= list entries

----- Original Message -----
From: "Italo Busi" <Italo.Busi@huawei.com>
Sent: Wednesday, May 29, 2019 7:00 PM

> Rob, Tarek,
>
> Thanks for following-up this discussion
>
> I like the suggestion to use a prefix string: those who prefers using<= br> one character (e.g., '#') could use a single character string
>
> Regarding the configuration, one possible issue that just jumped into<= br> my mind is what happens when the prefix is (re-)configured by the client af= ter some ephemeral tunnels have been created ...

Many years ago, there was a similar discussion about interface names which = never really got resolved but which was a factor in driving NMDA.
Some boxes create their own interface names, others have interface names co= nfigured; and with interfaces, there was a need to use a match of the ident= ifier to add configured attributes to a entry that the box had created but = to create a new entry if there was not a match.=C2=A0 Roll on multiple data= stores.

Which makes me ask; which datastores are we talking about? I know where ent= ries configured via NETCONF will go but which datastores will hold the deta= ils of these ephemeral tunnels? Needs clarifying IMHO.

Tom Petch

> An alternative solution could be to let the server decide which prefix=
to use (server implementation issue) and to provide a read-only YANG leaf t= o report this information to the client, such that the client knows it coul= d not use this prefix for the configured tunnels
>
> My 2 cents
>
> Italo
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Tarek Saad [mailto:tsaad.net@gmail.com]
> Sent: mercoled=C3=AC 29 maggio 2019 17:22
> To: Rob Wilton (rwilton) <rwilton@cisco.com>; tom petch
<ietfc@btconnec= t.com>; Italo Busi <Italo.Busi@huawei.com>; netmod@ietf.org
> Cc: teas@ietf.org
> Subject: Re: [Teas] [netmod] Key collision between configured and
ephemeral list entries
>
> Hi Rob,
>
> Inline..
>
> =EF=BB=BFOn 5/29/19, 9:05 AM, "Teas on behalf of Rob Wilton (rwil= ton)"
<teas-bounces= @ietf.org on behalf of rwilton@cisco.com> wrote:
>
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0Are these ephemeral tunnels created and named by th= e device
itself?
> [TS]: yes, some of those are auto-created by the device (e.g.
triggered by some local event).
>
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0Possibly using a human readable prefix (or suffix) = might be better
than using a symbol.
>
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0E.g. perhaps a prefix of "sys-" as an abb= reviation for system.
> [TS]: I tend to agree here. I had suggested making this prefix
configurable - not sure if this brings more trouble.
>
> [TS]: On a similar note, on the controller, some tunnels from
different ingress routers will be reported up to the controller. One way to= avoid collision of same tunnel name existing on multiple ingress devices, = we thought of is for that controller to (automatically) append the ingress = router name (or IP address) before consuming the reported tunnel into the c= ontroller tunnel list. Thoughts?
>
> Regards,
> Tarek
>
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0Thanks,
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0Rob
>
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0-----Original Message-----
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0From: Teas <teas-bounces@ietf.org> On Behalf Of tom petch=
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0Sent: 29 May 2019 12:04
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0To: Italo Busi <Italo.Busi@huawei.com>; netmod@ietf.org
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0Cc: teas@ietf.org
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0Subject: Re: [Teas] [netmod] Key collision between = configured and
ephemeral list entries
>
>
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0----- Original Message -----
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0From: "Italo Busi" <Italo.Busi@huawei.com>
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0Sent: Wednesday, May 29, 2019 11:02 AM
>
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0Hi Tom,
>
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0Thanks for your reply
>
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0It seems to me that the text you have quoted is fro= m:
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0https://tools.ietf.org/html/r= fc7950#section-6.2
>
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0If I can understand correctly, especially for secti= on 6.2.1, this
constraints does not apply to name attributes whose syntax is defined as a = string and used as key of a list, such as the tunnel list defined in the TE= YANG model:
>
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 |=C2=A0 +--rw tunnel* [name]
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 |=C2=A0 |=C2=A0 +--ro operational-st= ate?=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 identity= ref
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 |=C2=A0 |=C2=A0 +--rw name=C2=A0 =C2= =A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 = =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 string
>
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0My understanding is that a tunnel list entry with a= name starting
with '#' can exist in a YANG DS
>
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0<tp>
>
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0Italo
>
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0Ah yes, my misunderstanding.=C2=A0 'string'= type is a bit more flexible
i.e.
>
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 The string built-in type represents human-r= eadable strings in
YANG.
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 Legal characters are the Unicode and ISO/IE= C 10646 [ISO.10646]
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 characters, including tab, carriage return,= and line feed but
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 excluding the other C0 control characters, = the surrogate
blocks, and
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 the noncharacters.
>
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0Plenty of scope there!
>
>
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0If this approach is taken, then I agree that hash i= s a good choice
as it stands out, unlike, say, underscore which vanishes in the line of tex= t.
>
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0Tom Petch
>
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0Thanks, Italo
>
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0-----Original Message-----
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0From: tom petch [mailto:ietfc@btconnect.com]
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0Sent: mercoled=C3=AC 29 maggio 2019 10:42
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0To: Italo Busi <Italo.Busi@huawei.com>; netmod@ietf.org
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0Cc: teas@ietf.org
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0Subject: Re: [netmod] Key collision between configu= red and
ephemeral list entries
>
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0<inline>
>
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0Tom Petch
>
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0----- Original Message -----
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0From: "Italo Busi" <Italo.Busi@huawei.com>
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0To: <netmod@ietf.org>
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0Cc: <teas@ietf.org>
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0Sent: Monday, May 27, 2019 2:16 PM
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0Subject: [netmod] Key collision between configured = and ephemeral
list entries
>
>
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0On Friday within the TEAS WG, we have discussed an = issue which
seems generic and therefore agreed to ask for guidelines to the Netmod WG >
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0In the TE YANG model we have defined a tunnel list = with a name
attribute used as a key:
>
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 |=C2=A0 +--rw tunnel* [name]
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 |=C2=A0 |=C2=A0 +--ro operational-st= ate?=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 identity= ref
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 |=C2=A0 |=C2=A0 +--rw name=C2=A0 =C2= =A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 = =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 string
>
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0See: https://tools.iet= f.org/html/draft-ietf-teas-yang-te-21
>
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0The issue we are facing is how to avoid name collis= ion between
configured and ephemeral tunnels. In other words, the issue we are trying t= o address is how to avoid the client to assign to a configured tunnel a nam= e which have been already assigned by the server to another ephemeral tunne= l and vice-versa, in particular considering NMDA rules
>
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0We believe that the issue is generic and apply to a= ny configured
and ephemeral list entries
>
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0Has this issue been already discussed/resolved in N= etmod WG?
>
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0If not, what is the Netmod WG opinion/suggestion? W= e are currently
considering the following option:
>
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 Use a special character for ephemeral names= - e.g. such names
always are prepended by special character "#"
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 Make the special character changeable by co= nfiguration - the
default can be "#" and user can change if they desire..
>
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0<tp>
>
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0If this is to conform with YANG 1.1, RFC7950, then = the constraint
is
>
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 Identifiers are used to identify different = kinds of YANG items
by
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 name.=C2=A0 Each identifier starts with an = uppercase or lowercase
ASCII
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 letter or an underscore character, followed= by zero or more
ASCII
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 letters, digits, underscore characters, hyp= hens, and dots.
>
>
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0No # (hash) anywhere so I suspect that a lot of too= ling will fail
in an unpredictable way if it encounters an illegal character in an identif= ier.
>
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0Tom Petch
>
>
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0Thanks, Italo
>
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0Italo Busi
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0Principal Optical Transport Network Research Engine= er Huawei
Technologies Co., Ltd.
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0Tel : +39 345 4721946
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0Email : italo.busi@huawei.com
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0[cid:image002.png@01D5149F.354EF420]
>
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0This e-mail and its attachments contain confidentia= l information
from HUAWEI, which is intended only for the person or entity whose address = is listed above. Any use of the information contained herein in any way (in= cluding, but not limited to, total or partial disclosure, reproduction, or = dissemination) by persons other than the intended
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0recipient(s) is prohibited. If you receive this e-m= ail in error,
please notify the sender by phone or email immediately and delete it!
>
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0From: Tarek Saad [mailto:tsaad.net@gmail.com]
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0Sent: venerd=C3=AC 24 maggio 2019 23:13
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0To: Igor Bryskin <Igor.Bryskin@huawei.com>; Rakesh Gand= hi
<rgandhi@cisco.co= m>; Xufeng <xufeng.liu.ietf@gmail.com>; Vishnu Pavan Beeram <vbeeram@juniper.net>; Italo Busi <Italo.Busi@huawei.com>
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0Cc: teas@ietf.org
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0Subject: Discussion on modelling container TE tunne= ls in YANG
>
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0The team on "to" list met to discuss this= subject topic. Notes
from today's discussion (please add if I missed):
>
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0Name collision between configured and ephemeral tun= nels:
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0This is a generic problem in NMDA.
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0How to handle collisions between configured = and ephemeral (or
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0auto-created) objects of a list, if the list uses t= he object
(string
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0based) name as the key?
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0Both configured and ephemeral can have the s= ame object name but
they are different objects - how to avoid such collision.
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 Proposed solution:
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 Option 1:
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 Use a special character for ephemeral names= - e.g. such names
always are prepended by special character "#"
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 Make the special character changeable by co= nfiguration - the
default can be "#" and user can change if they desire..
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0Others?
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0AI (Italo): to send email to netmod group.
>
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0Container TE tunnels discussion:
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0-=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 Container tunne= ls are grouping of tunnels between same
2
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0endpoints to share incoming traffic towards the egr= ess
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0-=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 Member tunnels = of a container tunnel can be
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0auto-created/deleted on-demand and controlled by th= resholds
specified under the container
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0-=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 Some attributes= may apply on the container tunnel and
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0inherited down to member tunnels of the container >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0-=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 Q: Should model= allow member tunnel to override
inherited
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0attributes from container tunnel?
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0-=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 Q: Should all a= uto-created member tunnels of a
container have
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0the same prefix/suffix - i..e prefix/suffix can be = configurable
>
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0Regards,
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0Tarek
>
>
>
>
>
>
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0---------------------------------------------------= ---------------
------
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0--------
>
>
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0> ______________________________________________= _
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0> netmod mailing list
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0> netmod@ietf.org
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0> https://www.ietf.org/mailma= n/listinfo/netmod
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0>
>
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0_______________________________________________
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0Teas mailing list
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0= Teas@ietf.org
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listi= nfo/teas
>
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0_______________________________________________
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0Teas mailing list
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0= Teas@ietf.org
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listi= nfo/teas
>
>

_______________________________________________
netmod mailing list
netmod@ietf.org https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/netmod
--00000000000079565f058b0e4f58-- From nobody Tue Jun 11 09:01:23 2019 Return-Path: X-Original-To: netmod@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: netmod@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 07401120161; Tue, 11 Jun 2019 09:01:13 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.898 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.898 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_NONE=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id ktFWJgnbAcs7; Tue, 11 Jun 2019 09:01:10 -0700 (PDT) Received: from atlas5.jacobs-university.de (atlas5.jacobs-university.de [212.201.44.20]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ADH-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 55B4B120136; Tue, 11 Jun 2019 09:01:10 -0700 (PDT) Received: from localhost (demetrius5.irc-it.jacobs-university.de [10.70.0.222]) by atlas5.jacobs-university.de (Postfix) with ESMTP id B06F76E5; Tue, 11 Jun 2019 18:01:08 +0200 (CEST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at jacobs-university.de Received: from atlas5.jacobs-university.de ([10.70.0.198]) by localhost (demetrius5.jacobs-university.de [10.70.0.222]) (amavisd-new, port 10032) with ESMTP id rCNMzHTO7CRy; Tue, 11 Jun 2019 18:01:08 +0200 (CEST) Received: from hermes.jacobs-university.de (hermes.jacobs-university.de [212.201.44.23]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (Client CN "hermes.jacobs-university.de", Issuer "DFN-Verein Global Issuing CA" (verified OK)) by atlas5.jacobs-university.de (Postfix) with ESMTPS; Tue, 11 Jun 2019 18:01:08 +0200 (CEST) Received: from localhost (demetrius5.irc-it.jacobs-university.de [10.70.0.222]) by hermes.jacobs-university.de (Postfix) with ESMTP id 977A820128; Tue, 11 Jun 2019 18:01:08 +0200 (CEST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at jacobs-university.de Received: from hermes.jacobs-university.de ([212.201.44.23]) by localhost (demetrius5.jacobs-university.de [10.70.0.222]) (amavisd-new, port 10028) with ESMTP id 7CNSaD5odW4p; Tue, 11 Jun 2019 18:01:08 +0200 (CEST) Received: from exchange.jacobs-university.de (sxchmb03.jacobs.jacobs-university.de [10.70.0.155]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (Client CN "exchange.jacobs-university.de", Issuer "DFN-Verein Global Issuing CA" (verified OK)) by hermes.jacobs-university.de (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 537D720126; Tue, 11 Jun 2019 18:01:08 +0200 (CEST) Received: from anna.localdomain (10.50.218.117) by sxchmb03.jacobs.jacobs-university.de (10.70.0.155) with Microsoft SMTP Server (version=TLS1_2, cipher=TLS_ECDHE_RSA_WITH_AES_256_GCM_SHA384) id 15.1.1713.5; Tue, 11 Jun 2019 18:01:07 +0200 Received: by anna.localdomain (Postfix, from userid 501) id 7541E300A2A302; Tue, 11 Jun 2019 18:01:06 +0200 (CEST) Date: Tue, 11 Jun 2019 18:01:06 +0200 From: Juergen Schoenwaelder To: Andy Bierman CC: Italo Busi , "teas@ietf.org" , Tarek Saad , "netmod@ietf.org" Message-ID: <20190611160106.5o3pslwmnhaoyjzx@anna.jacobs.jacobs-university.de> Reply-To: Juergen Schoenwaelder Mail-Followup-To: Andy Bierman , Italo Busi , "teas@ietf.org" , Tarek Saad , "netmod@ietf.org" References: <91E3A1BD737FDF4FA14118387FF6766B2774D314@lhreml504-mbs> <017f01d515f9$d0c662c0$4001a8c0@gateway.2wire.net> <91E3A1BD737FDF4FA14118387FF6766B2774DF6C@lhreml504-mbs> <062401d5160d$a568ea80$4001a8c0@gateway.2wire.net> <91E3A1BD737FDF4FA14118387FF6766B2774E51F@lhreml504-mbs> <028b01d51933$1015fa80$4001a8c0@gateway.2wire.net> <91E3A1BD737FDF4FA14118387FF6766B2775CF49@lhreml504-mbs> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: User-Agent: NeoMutt/20180716 X-ClientProxiedBy: SXCHMB01.jacobs.jacobs-university.de (10.70.0.120) To sxchmb03.jacobs.jacobs-university.de (10.70.0.155) Archived-At: Subject: Re: [netmod] [Teas] Key collision between configured and ephemeral list entries X-BeenThere: netmod@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: NETMOD WG list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 11 Jun 2019 16:01:13 -0000 On Tue, Jun 11, 2019 at 08:54:11AM -0700, Andy Bierman wrote: > There are no instance naming collisions within or . > Only if you try to combine them, which is not how it works. The server > chooses what to put in and sets the origin attribute > accordingly. And for a robust solution, it is good to have an explicit definition of which entry takes priority if there is a name clash. /js -- Juergen Schoenwaelder Jacobs University Bremen gGmbH Phone: +49 421 200 3587 Campus Ring 1 | 28759 Bremen | Germany Fax: +49 421 200 3103 From nobody Tue Jun 11 09:35:58 2019 Return-Path: X-Original-To: netmod@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: netmod@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1866812036B; Tue, 11 Jun 2019 09:35:57 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: 0.247 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=0.247 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, RATWARE_MS_HASH=2.148, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=no autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (1024-bit key) header.d=btconnect.onmicrosoft.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) 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bW9kIG1haWxpbmcgbGlzdA0KPiA+IG5ldG1vZEBpZXRmLm9yZw0KPiA+IGh0dHBzOi8vd3d3Lmll dGYub3JnL21haWxtYW4vbGlzdGluZm8vbmV0bW9kDQo+IF9fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19f X19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fDQo+IExzciBtYWlsaW5nIGxpc3QNCj4gTHNyQGlldGYu b3JnDQo+IGh0dHBzOi8vd3d3LmlldGYub3JnL21haWxtYW4vbGlzdGluZm8vbHNyDQo+DQoNCg== From nobody Tue Jun 11 09:36:35 2019 Return-Path: X-Original-To: netmod@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: netmod@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id A479D120075; Tue, 11 Jun 2019 09:36:26 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -4.201 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-4.201 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-2.3, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 6ZlBQVRgV1Le; Tue, 11 Jun 2019 09:36:24 -0700 (PDT) Received: from huawei.com (lhrrgout.huawei.com [185.176.76.210]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 0BC8F120376; Tue, 11 Jun 2019 09:36:17 -0700 (PDT) Received: from lhreml703-cah.china.huawei.com (unknown [172.18.7.108]) by Forcepoint Email with ESMTP id 4AE02994A7AD18363AF8; Tue, 11 Jun 2019 17:36:15 +0100 (IST) Received: from LHREML504-MBS.china.huawei.com ([10.201.109.59]) by lhreml703-cah.china.huawei.com ([10.201.108.44]) with mapi id 14.03.0415.000; Tue, 11 Jun 2019 17:36:09 +0100 From: Italo Busi To: Juergen Schoenwaelder , Andy Bierman CC: "teas@ietf.org" , Tarek Saad , "netmod@ietf.org" Thread-Topic: [netmod] [Teas] Key collision between configured and ephemeral list entries Thread-Index: AQHVIGv3uNMq5vuvr0+PtfoTsE5mlKaWijaAgAAB7wCAABg74A== Date: Tue, 11 Jun 2019 16:36:08 +0000 Message-ID: <91E3A1BD737FDF4FA14118387FF6766B2775D052@lhreml504-mbs> References: <91E3A1BD737FDF4FA14118387FF6766B2774D314@lhreml504-mbs> <017f01d515f9$d0c662c0$4001a8c0@gateway.2wire.net> <91E3A1BD737FDF4FA14118387FF6766B2774DF6C@lhreml504-mbs> <062401d5160d$a568ea80$4001a8c0@gateway.2wire.net> <91E3A1BD737FDF4FA14118387FF6766B2774E51F@lhreml504-mbs> <028b01d51933$1015fa80$4001a8c0@gateway.2wire.net> <91E3A1BD737FDF4FA14118387FF6766B2775CF49@lhreml504-mbs> <20190611160106.5o3pslwmnhaoyjzx@anna.jacobs.jacobs-university.de> In-Reply-To: <20190611160106.5o3pslwmnhaoyjzx@anna.jacobs.jacobs-university.de> Accept-Language: it-IT, en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-originating-ip: [10.203.246.126] Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable MIME-Version: 1.0 X-CFilter-Loop: Reflected Archived-At: Subject: Re: [netmod] [Teas] Key collision between configured and ephemeral list entries X-BeenThere: netmod@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: NETMOD WG list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 11 Jun 2019 16:36:27 -0000 Juergen, Andy, Thanks for your reply I agree with your statements as long as we consider two sources for the sam= e information/instance. In this case, my understanding is that the same key= value is intentionally assigned by the two sources to indicate that they a= re representing the same information/instance and only one instance needs t= o be applied within the operational DS The issue we are trying to solve is slightly different. We have two differe= nt instances from different sources and both of them need to be applied wit= hin the operational DS, but unfortunately they have got assigned the same k= ey value ... Italo -----Original Message----- From: Juergen Schoenwaelder [mailto:j.schoenwaelder@jacobs-university.de]=20 Sent: marted=EC 11 giugno 2019 18:01 To: Andy Bierman Cc: Italo Busi ; teas@ietf.org; Tarek Saad ; netmod@ietf.org Subject: Re: [netmod] [Teas] Key collision between configured and ephemeral= list entries On Tue, Jun 11, 2019 at 08:54:11AM -0700, Andy Bierman wrote: > There are no instance naming collisions within or . > Only if you try to combine them, which is not how it works. The server=20 > chooses what to put in and sets the origin attribute=20 > accordingly. And for a robust solution, it is good to have an explicit definition of whi= ch entry takes priority if there is a name clash. /js --=20 Juergen Schoenwaelder Jacobs University Bremen gGmbH Phone: +49 421 200 3587 Campus Ring 1 | 28759 Bremen | Germany Fax: +49 421 200 3103 From nobody Tue Jun 11 10:19:15 2019 Return-Path: X-Original-To: netmod@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: netmod@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8BE4E12010C; Tue, 11 Jun 2019 10:19:14 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.898 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.898 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_NONE=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id D9MwlXLfZJCB; Tue, 11 Jun 2019 10:19:13 -0700 (PDT) Received: from atlas5.jacobs-university.de (atlas5.jacobs-university.de [212.201.44.20]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ADH-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 1798712015D; Tue, 11 Jun 2019 10:19:04 -0700 (PDT) Received: from localhost (demetrius5.irc-it.jacobs-university.de [10.70.0.222]) by atlas5.jacobs-university.de (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9068376; Tue, 11 Jun 2019 19:19:02 +0200 (CEST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at jacobs-university.de Received: from atlas5.jacobs-university.de ([10.70.0.198]) by localhost (demetrius5.jacobs-university.de [10.70.0.222]) (amavisd-new, port 10032) with ESMTP id QHKPJlaL5IMk; Tue, 11 Jun 2019 19:19:02 +0200 (CEST) Received: from hermes.jacobs-university.de (hermes.jacobs-university.de [212.201.44.23]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (Client CN "hermes.jacobs-university.de", Issuer "DFN-Verein Global Issuing CA" (verified OK)) by atlas5.jacobs-university.de (Postfix) with ESMTPS; Tue, 11 Jun 2019 19:19:02 +0200 (CEST) Received: from localhost (demetrius5.irc-it.jacobs-university.de [10.70.0.222]) by hermes.jacobs-university.de (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4806F2012C; Tue, 11 Jun 2019 19:19:02 +0200 (CEST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at jacobs-university.de Received: from hermes.jacobs-university.de ([212.201.44.23]) by localhost (demetrius5.jacobs-university.de [10.70.0.222]) (amavisd-new, port 10028) with ESMTP id PgPcw8JNEwTe; Tue, 11 Jun 2019 19:19:01 +0200 (CEST) Received: from exchange.jacobs-university.de (sxchmb04.jacobs.jacobs-university.de [10.70.0.156]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (Client CN "exchange.jacobs-university.de", Issuer "DFN-Verein Global Issuing CA" (verified OK)) by hermes.jacobs-university.de (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 549DB20126; Tue, 11 Jun 2019 19:19:01 +0200 (CEST) Received: from anna.localdomain (10.50.218.117) by sxchmb03.jacobs.jacobs-university.de (10.70.0.155) with Microsoft SMTP Server (version=TLS1_2, cipher=TLS_ECDHE_RSA_WITH_AES_256_GCM_SHA384) id 15.1.1713.5; Tue, 11 Jun 2019 19:19:00 +0200 Received: by anna.localdomain (Postfix, from userid 501) id 7F75B300A2A461; Tue, 11 Jun 2019 19:19:00 +0200 (CEST) Date: Tue, 11 Jun 2019 19:19:00 +0200 From: Juergen Schoenwaelder To: Italo Busi CC: Andy Bierman , "teas@ietf.org" , Tarek Saad , "netmod@ietf.org" Message-ID: <20190611171900.xzzwofx5nwtj77cv@anna.jacobs.jacobs-university.de> Reply-To: Juergen Schoenwaelder Mail-Followup-To: Italo Busi , Andy Bierman , "teas@ietf.org" , Tarek Saad , "netmod@ietf.org" References: <91E3A1BD737FDF4FA14118387FF6766B2774DF6C@lhreml504-mbs> <062401d5160d$a568ea80$4001a8c0@gateway.2wire.net> <91E3A1BD737FDF4FA14118387FF6766B2774E51F@lhreml504-mbs> <028b01d51933$1015fa80$4001a8c0@gateway.2wire.net> <91E3A1BD737FDF4FA14118387FF6766B2775CF49@lhreml504-mbs> <20190611160106.5o3pslwmnhaoyjzx@anna.jacobs.jacobs-university.de> <91E3A1BD737FDF4FA14118387FF6766B2775D052@lhreml504-mbs> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <91E3A1BD737FDF4FA14118387FF6766B2775D052@lhreml504-mbs> User-Agent: NeoMutt/20180716 X-ClientProxiedBy: SXCHMB02.jacobs.jacobs-university.de (10.70.0.121) To sxchmb03.jacobs.jacobs-university.de (10.70.0.155) Archived-At: Subject: Re: [netmod] [Teas] Key collision between configured and ephemeral list entries X-BeenThere: netmod@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: NETMOD WG list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 11 Jun 2019 17:19:15 -0000 On Tue, Jun 11, 2019 at 04:36:08PM +0000, Italo Busi wrote: > > I agree with your statements as long as we consider two sources for the same information/instance. In this case, my understanding is that the same key value is intentionally assigned by the two sources to indicate that they are representing the same information/instance and only one instance needs to be applied within the operational DS > > The issue we are trying to solve is slightly different. We have two different instances from different sources and both of them need to be applied within the operational DS, but unfortunately they have got assigned the same key value ... > It does not really matter whether the name clash is intentional or not. Only one can be used and it should be clear which one will be the winner. I do understand that you want to design the models so that name clashes can be avoided and this is likely fine for what you need but you need to think through all cases. - Will names not matching the pattern be rejected? If so, what happens to existing entries if the allowed name pattern is changed? Or is the pattern cast into stone? - Another option, in principle, is to suggest that names are chosen such that they have a low probability to collide. This sometimes leads to simpler implementations since clients do not have to generate names conforming to some (configurable?) patterns and instead create a name with low collision probability and if the config does not make it into , the client handles the name clash. Note that some clients may want to tag their entries with specific IDs anyway so that they can easily recognize their entries, i.e., clients may have other good reasons to avoid generating names that have a high probability to clash. /js -- Juergen Schoenwaelder Jacobs University Bremen gGmbH Phone: +49 421 200 3587 Campus Ring 1 | 28759 Bremen | Germany Fax: +49 421 200 3103 From nobody Tue Jun 11 10:43:46 2019 Return-Path: X-Original-To: netmod@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: netmod@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id B5F92120133; Tue, 11 Jun 2019 10:43:37 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -4.2 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-4.2 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-2.3, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id YBICJltCyK0A; Tue, 11 Jun 2019 10:43:35 -0700 (PDT) Received: from huawei.com (lhrrgout.huawei.com [185.176.76.210]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id CC78F12012A; Tue, 11 Jun 2019 10:43:34 -0700 (PDT) Received: from lhreml705-cah.china.huawei.com (unknown [172.18.7.108]) by Forcepoint Email with ESMTP id 6825BED906C18F394E62; Tue, 11 Jun 2019 18:43:32 +0100 (IST) Received: from LHREML504-MBS.china.huawei.com ([10.201.109.59]) by lhreml705-cah.china.huawei.com ([10.201.108.46]) with mapi id 14.03.0415.000; Tue, 11 Jun 2019 18:43:27 +0100 From: Italo Busi To: Juergen Schoenwaelder CC: Andy Bierman , "teas@ietf.org" , "Tarek Saad" , "netmod@ietf.org" Thread-Topic: [netmod] [Teas] Key collision between configured and ephemeral list entries Thread-Index: AQHVIGv3uNMq5vuvr0+PtfoTsE5mlKaWijaAgAAB7wCAABg74P///YkAgAASdtA= Date: Tue, 11 Jun 2019 17:43:27 +0000 Message-ID: <91E3A1BD737FDF4FA14118387FF6766B2775D16D@lhreml504-mbs> References: <91E3A1BD737FDF4FA14118387FF6766B2774DF6C@lhreml504-mbs> <062401d5160d$a568ea80$4001a8c0@gateway.2wire.net> <91E3A1BD737FDF4FA14118387FF6766B2774E51F@lhreml504-mbs> <028b01d51933$1015fa80$4001a8c0@gateway.2wire.net> <91E3A1BD737FDF4FA14118387FF6766B2775CF49@lhreml504-mbs> <20190611160106.5o3pslwmnhaoyjzx@anna.jacobs.jacobs-university.de> <91E3A1BD737FDF4FA14118387FF6766B2775D052@lhreml504-mbs> <20190611171900.xzzwofx5nwtj77cv@anna.jacobs.jacobs-university.de> In-Reply-To: <20190611171900.xzzwofx5nwtj77cv@anna.jacobs.jacobs-university.de> Accept-Language: it-IT, en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-originating-ip: [10.203.246.126] Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="_000_91E3A1BD737FDF4FA14118387FF6766B2775D16Dlhreml504mbs_" MIME-Version: 1.0 X-CFilter-Loop: Reflected Archived-At: Subject: Re: [netmod] [Teas] Key collision between configured and ephemeral list entries X-BeenThere: netmod@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: NETMOD WG list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 11 Jun 2019 17:43:38 -0000 --_000_91E3A1BD737FDF4FA14118387FF6766B2775D16Dlhreml504mbs_ Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hi Juergen, Thanks for your reply: see some comments of mine in line below Italo -----Original Message----- From: Juergen Schoenwaelder [mailto:j.schoenwaelder@jacobs-university.de] Sent: marted=EC 11 giugno 2019 19:19 To: Italo Busi Cc: Andy Bierman ; teas@ietf.org; Tarek Saad ; netmod@ietf.org Subject: Re: [netmod] [Teas] Key collision between configured and ephemeral= list entries On Tue, Jun 11, 2019 at 04:36:08PM +0000, Italo Busi wrote: > > I agree with your statements as long as we consider two sources for > the same information/instance. In this case, my understanding is that > the same key value is intentionally assigned by the two sources to > indicate that they are representing the same information/instance and > only one instance needs to be applied within the operational DS > > The issue we are trying to solve is slightly different. We have two diffe= rent instances from different sources and both of them need to be applied w= ithin the operational DS, but unfortunately they have got assigned the same= key value ... > It does not really matter whether the name clash is intentional or not. Onl= y one can be used and it should be clear which one will be the winner. [Italo Busi] I agree. This is why I think we need to avoid unintentional na= me clash. I do understand that you want to design the models so that name clashes can= be avoided and this is likely fine for what you need but you need to think= through all cases. - Will names not matching the pattern be rejected? [Italo Busi] Good question. I think that the client should be allowed to cr= eate entries with intentional name clashes If so, what happens to existing entries if the allowed name pattern is changed? Or is the pattern cast into stone? [Italo Busi] Another good question. My feeling is that the solution would b= e much simpler if the prefix is decided by the server, communicated to the = client and never changed. - Another option, in principle, is to suggest that names are chosen such that they have a low probability to collide. This sometimes leads to simpler implementations since clients do not have to generate names conforming to some (configurable?) patterns and instead create a name with low collision probability and if the config does not make it into , the client handles the name clash. Note that some clients may want to tag their entries with specific IDs anyway so that they can easily recognize their entries, i.e., clients may have other good reasons to avoid generating names that have a high probability to clash. [Italo Busi] If the client knows the prefix used by the server, it can pick= up a different prefix and use it to tag its own entries. I think this rule= is not really complex and it seems much simpler than managing unintended n= ame clashes /js -- Juergen Schoenwaelder Jacobs University Bremen gGmbH Phone: +49 421 200 3587 Campus Ring 1 | 28759 Bremen | Germany Fax: +49 421 200 3103 --_000_91E3A1BD737FDF4FA14118387FF6766B2775D16Dlhreml504mbs_ Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable <= a name=3D"_MailEndCompose">
Hi J= uergen,
 <= /div>
Than= ks for your reply: see some comments of mine in line below
&nbs= p;
Ital= o
 <= /div>
----= -Original Message-----
From: Juergen Schoenwaelder [mailto:j.schoenwaelder@jacobs-university.de]
Sent: marted=EC 11 giugno 2019 19:19
To: Italo Busi <Italo.Busi@huawei.com>
Cc: Andy Bierman <andy@yumaworks.com>; teas@ietf.org; Tarek Saad <= tsaad.net@gmail.com>; netmod@ietf.org
Subject: Re: [netmod] [Teas] Key collision between configured and ephemeral= list entries
 <= /div>
On T= ue, Jun 11, 2019 at 04:36:08PM +0000, Italo Busi wrote:
>=
>= I agree with your statements as long as we consider two sources for
>= the same information/instance. In this case, my understanding is that
>= the same key value is intentionally assigned by the two sources to =
>= indicate that they are representing the same information/instance and
>= only one instance needs to be applied within the operational DS
>=
>= The issue we are trying to solve is slightly different. We have two differ= ent instances from different sources and both of them need to be applied wi= thin the operational DS, but unfortunately they have got assigned the same key value ...
>=
&nbs= p;
It d= oes not really matter whether the name clash is intentional or not. Only on= e can be used and it should be clear which one will be the winner.
<= i>[Italo Busi] I agree. This is why I think we need to avoid = unintentional name clash.=
 <= /div>
I do= understand that you want to design the models so that name clashes can be = avoided and this is likely fine for what you need but you need to think thr= ough all cases.
&nbs= p;
- Wi= ll names not matching the pattern be rejected?
<= i>[Italo Busi] Good question. I think that the client should = be allowed to create entries with intentional name clashes
 <= /div>
If s= o, what happens
&nbs= p; to existing entries if the allowed name pattern is changed? Or is=
&nbs= p; the pattern cast into stone?
<= i>[Italo Busi] Another good question. My feeling is that the = solution would be much simpler if the prefix is decided by the server, comm= unicated to the client and never changed.
 <= /div>
- An= other option, in principle, is to suggest that names are chosen
&nbs= p; such that they have a low probability to collide. This sometimes<= /font>
&nbs= p; leads to simpler implementations since clients do not have to
&nbs= p; generate names conforming to some (configurable?) patterns and
&nbs= p; instead create a name with low collision probability and if the
&nbs= p; config does not make it into <operational>, the client handles the=
&nbs= p; name clash. Note that some clients may want to tag their entries<= /font>
&nbs= p; with specific IDs anyway so that they can easily recognize their<= /font>
&nbs= p; entries, i.e., clients may have other good reasons to avoid
&nbs= p; generating names that have a high probability to clash.
<= i>[Italo Busi] If the client knows the prefix used by the ser= ver, it can pick up a different prefix and use it to tag its own entries. I think this rule is not really complex and it seems much simpler than managing unintended name clas= hes
 <= /div>
/js<= /span>
&nbs= p;
-- <= /span>
Juer= gen Schoenwaelder         &nbs= p; Jacobs University Bremen gGmbH
Phon= e: +49 421 200 3587         Cam= pus Ring 1 | 28759 Bremen | Germany
Fax:=    +49 421 200 3103       =   <https://www.jacobs= -university.de/>
 <= /div> --_000_91E3A1BD737FDF4FA14118387FF6766B2775D16Dlhreml504mbs_-- From nobody Tue Jun 11 11:36:50 2019 Return-Path: X-Original-To: netmod@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: netmod@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 546A4120241; Tue, 11 Jun 2019 11:36:48 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.898 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.898 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_NONE=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id W1BmPKpWWvve; Tue, 11 Jun 2019 11:36:46 -0700 (PDT) Received: from atlas5.jacobs-university.de (atlas5.jacobs-university.de [212.201.44.20]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ADH-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id D0C52120169; Tue, 11 Jun 2019 11:36:34 -0700 (PDT) Received: from localhost (demetrius5.irc-it.jacobs-university.de [10.70.0.222]) by atlas5.jacobs-university.de (Postfix) with ESMTP id 61866375; Tue, 11 Jun 2019 20:36:33 +0200 (CEST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at jacobs-university.de Received: from atlas5.jacobs-university.de ([10.70.0.198]) by localhost (demetrius5.jacobs-university.de [10.70.0.222]) (amavisd-new, port 10032) with ESMTP id XUNm-CE0wecR; Tue, 11 Jun 2019 20:36:33 +0200 (CEST) Received: from hermes.jacobs-university.de (hermes.jacobs-university.de [212.201.44.23]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (Client CN "hermes.jacobs-university.de", Issuer "DFN-Verein Global Issuing CA" (verified OK)) by atlas5.jacobs-university.de (Postfix) with ESMTPS; Tue, 11 Jun 2019 20:36:33 +0200 (CEST) Received: from localhost (demetrius5.irc-it.jacobs-university.de [10.70.0.222]) by hermes.jacobs-university.de (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4815620128; Tue, 11 Jun 2019 20:36:33 +0200 (CEST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at jacobs-university.de Received: from hermes.jacobs-university.de ([212.201.44.23]) by localhost (demetrius5.jacobs-university.de [10.70.0.222]) (amavisd-new, port 10028) with ESMTP id NejBOZdv0LXj; Tue, 11 Jun 2019 20:36:33 +0200 (CEST) Received: from exchange.jacobs-university.de (SXCHMB01.jacobs.jacobs-university.de [10.70.0.120]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (Client CN "exchange.jacobs-university.de", Issuer "DFN-Verein Global Issuing CA" (verified OK)) by hermes.jacobs-university.de (Postfix) with ESMTPS id F174720126; Tue, 11 Jun 2019 20:36:32 +0200 (CEST) Received: from anna.localdomain (10.50.218.117) by sxchmb03.jacobs.jacobs-university.de (10.70.0.155) with Microsoft SMTP Server (version=TLS1_2, cipher=TLS_ECDHE_RSA_WITH_AES_256_GCM_SHA384) id 15.1.1713.5; Tue, 11 Jun 2019 20:36:32 +0200 Received: by anna.localdomain (Postfix, from userid 501) id ACF58300A2A89E; Tue, 11 Jun 2019 20:36:31 +0200 (CEST) Date: Tue, 11 Jun 2019 20:36:30 +0200 From: Juergen Schoenwaelder To: Italo Busi CC: Andy Bierman , "teas@ietf.org" , Tarek Saad , "netmod@ietf.org" Message-ID: <20190611183630.4ymx7libdotuqfbo@anna.jacobs.jacobs-university.de> Reply-To: Juergen Schoenwaelder Mail-Followup-To: Italo Busi , Andy Bierman , "teas@ietf.org" , Tarek Saad , "netmod@ietf.org" References: <91E3A1BD737FDF4FA14118387FF6766B2774E51F@lhreml504-mbs> <028b01d51933$1015fa80$4001a8c0@gateway.2wire.net> <91E3A1BD737FDF4FA14118387FF6766B2775CF49@lhreml504-mbs> <20190611160106.5o3pslwmnhaoyjzx@anna.jacobs.jacobs-university.de> <91E3A1BD737FDF4FA14118387FF6766B2775D052@lhreml504-mbs> <20190611171900.xzzwofx5nwtj77cv@anna.jacobs.jacobs-university.de> <91E3A1BD737FDF4FA14118387FF6766B2775D16D@lhreml504-mbs> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <91E3A1BD737FDF4FA14118387FF6766B2775D16D@lhreml504-mbs> User-Agent: NeoMutt/20180716 X-ClientProxiedBy: SXCHMB04.jacobs.jacobs-university.de (10.70.0.156) To sxchmb03.jacobs.jacobs-university.de (10.70.0.155) Archived-At: Subject: Re: [netmod] [Teas] Key collision between configured and ephemeral list entries X-BeenThere: netmod@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: NETMOD WG list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 11 Jun 2019 18:36:48 -0000 On Tue, Jun 11, 2019 at 05:43:27PM +0000, Italo Busi wrote: > [Italo Busi] If the client knows the prefix used by the server, it > can pick up a different prefix and use it to tag its own entries. I > think this rule is not really complex and it seems much simpler than > managing unintended name clashes A prefix only helps a little. Once you have multiple clients creating entries, you will have to handle collisions again. Sometimes solving the more general case leads to solutions that also work nicely in simpler special cases. /js -- Juergen Schoenwaelder Jacobs University Bremen gGmbH Phone: +49 421 200 3587 Campus Ring 1 | 28759 Bremen | Germany Fax: +49 421 200 3103 From nobody Wed Jun 12 01:02:10 2019 Return-Path: X-Original-To: netmod@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: netmod@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 37E9D12007A for ; Wed, 12 Jun 2019 01:02:08 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -6.998 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-6.998 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_HI=-5, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_NONE=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (1024-bit key) header.d=nic.cz Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id Zvg8VTYHOh5O for ; Wed, 12 Jun 2019 01:02:05 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail.nic.cz (mail.nic.cz [217.31.204.67]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id A8ED312003F for ; Wed, 12 Jun 2019 01:02:05 -0700 (PDT) Received: from birdie (unknown [IPv6:2001:718:1a02:1::380]) by mail.nic.cz (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id D43AE1409C1 for ; Wed, 12 Jun 2019 10:01:30 +0200 (CEST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/simple; d=nic.cz; s=default; t=1560326523; bh=UtK0rMs2tKgtMbOmhIn5L0XhfRy3jL1+wC3RlvQi7Lo=; h=From:To:Date; b=k9DZ+ISLt1AdBlLTPUTOTWNRIelSfZQ9HLHHp+OS5islvznniJJLooY1YYca+ouJW gkvWGqJI8K7EsDflZZ9yup8pzdniYFp9WTFJp7LoXqOwImPbL19RdexLtu9DfFkQyc VsXSBSOhvA4rMvwaWuPXBPjJUwQ06dPtH1/R7Tg0= Message-ID: <291106e34498ebd68f26bf9ff9b679dd5bd8f0cd.camel@nic.cz> From: Ladislav Lhotka To: NETMOD WG Date: Wed, 12 Jun 2019 10:01:30 +0200 Organization: CZ.NIC Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" User-Agent: Evolution 3.32.2 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Virus-Scanned: clamav-milter 0.100.3 at mail.nic.cz X-Virus-Status: Clean Archived-At: Subject: [netmod] regular expression flavours (again) X-BeenThere: netmod@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: NETMOD WG list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 12 Jun 2019 08:02:08 -0000 Hi, I think it is very unfortunate that OpenConfig folks use POSIX regular expressions instead of XSD. This of course causes confusion, see e.g. this PR: https://github.com/CZ-NIC/yangson/pull/22 Given the popularity of OpenConfig models, it seems to me that it would be better if YANG somehow accomodates such (largely cosmetic) differences. One option would be that each YANG module declares the regex flavour used in its patterns. Yes, it is a complication, but having separate forks of YANG is much worse. ISO Schematron adopted a similar approach with "query language binding" that can be declared with the schema element, for example Any thoughts on this? Lada -- Ladislav Lhotka Head, CZ.NIC Labs PGP Key ID: 0xB8F92B08A9F76C67 From nobody Wed Jun 12 01:23:20 2019 Return-Path: X-Original-To: netmod@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: netmod@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6FA631200FE; Wed, 12 Jun 2019 01:23:13 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.599 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.599 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW=-0.7, SPF_PASS=-0.001, UNPARSEABLE_RELAY=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id mJeJDN_ss5qK; Wed, 12 Jun 2019 01:23:11 -0700 (PDT) Received: from orange.com (mta240.mail.business.static.orange.com [80.12.66.40]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher AECDH-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id C6AAE1200BA; Wed, 12 Jun 2019 01:23:10 -0700 (PDT) Received: from opfedar03.francetelecom.fr (unknown [xx.xx.xx.5]) by opfedar26.francetelecom.fr (ESMTP service) with ESMTP id 45P0Hc6rkbzFsZT; Wed, 12 Jun 2019 10:23:08 +0200 (CEST) Received: from Exchangemail-eme6.itn.ftgroup (unknown [xx.xx.13.35]) by opfedar03.francetelecom.fr (ESMTP service) with ESMTP id 45P0Hc5RKdzCqmV; Wed, 12 Jun 2019 10:23:08 +0200 (CEST) Received: from OPEXCAUBMA3.corporate.adroot.infra.ftgroup ([fe80::90fe:7dc1:fb15:a02b]) by OPEXCAUBM6C.corporate.adroot.infra.ftgroup ([fe80::f58e:8e9d:ae18:b9e3%21]) with mapi id 14.03.0439.000; Wed, 12 Jun 2019 10:23:08 +0200 From: To: Xufeng Liu , "lsr@ietf.org" , NETMOD WG Thread-Topic: [Lsr] A question on the parameter overriding in draft-ietf-isis-yang-isis-cfg Thread-Index: AQHVHtCamwgg95QEk0G9tnGAsu5YnKaXsikw Date: Wed, 12 Jun 2019 08:23:08 +0000 Message-ID: <6541_1560327788_5D00B66C_6541_22_15_9E32478DFA9976438E7A22F69B08FF924C252A2E@OPEXCAUBMA3.corporate.adroot.infra.ftgroup> References: In-Reply-To: Accept-Language: fr-FR, en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-originating-ip: [10.114.13.247] Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="_000_9E32478DFA9976438E7A22F69B08FF924C252A2EOPEXCAUBMA3corp_" MIME-Version: 1.0 Archived-At: Subject: Re: [netmod] [Lsr] A question on the parameter overriding in draft-ietf-isis-yang-isis-cfg X-BeenThere: netmod@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: NETMOD WG list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 12 Jun 2019 08:23:14 -0000 --_000_9E32478DFA9976438E7A22F69B08FF924C252A2EOPEXCAUBMA3corp_ Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 SGkgWHVmZW5nLA0KDQpHb29kIGNhdGNoLCBJIHRoaW5rIHRoZXJlIGlzIGEgbWlzdGFrZSBoZXJl 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X-OriginatorOrg: cisco.com X-Outbound-SMTP-Client: 173.36.7.18, xch-aln-008.cisco.com X-Outbound-Node: alln-core-5.cisco.com Archived-At: Subject: Re: [netmod] regular expression flavours (again) X-BeenThere: netmod@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: NETMOD WG list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 12 Jun 2019 09:25:46 -0000 Hi Lada, OpenConfig have already introduced a module level extension statement to in= dicate that their pattern statements use POSIX regular expressions. extension regexp-posix { description "This extension indicates that the regular expressions included within the YANG module specified are conformant with the POSIX regular expression format rather than the W3C standard that is specified by RFC6020 and RFC7950."; } Defined in https://github.com/openconfig/public/blob/master/release/models/= openconfig-extensions.yang I don't think that this should become part of the YANG standard. Thanks, Rob > -----Original Message----- > From: netmod On Behalf Of Ladislav Lhotka > Sent: 12 June 2019 09:02 > To: NETMOD WG > Subject: [netmod] regular expression flavours (again) >=20 > Hi, >=20 > I think it is very unfortunate that OpenConfig folks use POSIX regular > expressions instead of XSD. This of course causes confusion, see e.g. thi= s > PR: >=20 > https://github.com/CZ-NIC/yangson/pull/22 >=20 > Given the popularity of OpenConfig models, it seems to me that it would b= e > better if YANG somehow accomodates such (largely cosmetic) differences. >=20 > One option would be that each YANG module declares the regex flavour used > in its patterns. Yes, it is a complication, but having separate forks of > YANG is much worse. >=20 > ISO Schematron adopted a similar approach with "query language binding" > that can be declared with the schema element, for example >=20 > >=20 > Any thoughts on this? >=20 > Lada >=20 > -- > Ladislav Lhotka > Head, CZ.NIC Labs > PGP Key ID: 0xB8F92B08A9F76C67 >=20 > _______________________________________________ > netmod mailing list > netmod@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/netmod From nobody Wed Jun 12 02:26:03 2019 Return-Path: X-Original-To: netmod@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: netmod@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4A230120146 for ; Wed, 12 Jun 2019 02:26:02 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.898 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.898 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_NONE=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id mwkUNgK5Jbai for ; Wed, 12 Jun 2019 02:25:59 -0700 (PDT) Received: from atlas5.jacobs-university.de (atlas5.jacobs-university.de [212.201.44.20]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ADH-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 88D5712013F for ; Wed, 12 Jun 2019 02:25:59 -0700 (PDT) Received: from localhost (demetrius5.irc-it.jacobs-university.de [10.70.0.222]) by atlas5.jacobs-university.de (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3B82765B; Wed, 12 Jun 2019 11:25:58 +0200 (CEST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at jacobs-university.de Received: from atlas5.jacobs-university.de ([10.70.0.198]) by localhost (demetrius5.jacobs-university.de [10.70.0.222]) (amavisd-new, port 10032) with ESMTP id a_oIE1hnXEDO; Wed, 12 Jun 2019 11:25:58 +0200 (CEST) Received: from hermes.jacobs-university.de (hermes.jacobs-university.de [212.201.44.23]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (Client CN "hermes.jacobs-university.de", Issuer "DFN-Verein Global Issuing CA" (verified OK)) by atlas5.jacobs-university.de (Postfix) with ESMTPS; Wed, 12 Jun 2019 11:25:58 +0200 (CEST) Received: from localhost (demetrius5.irc-it.jacobs-university.de [10.70.0.222]) by hermes.jacobs-university.de (Postfix) with ESMTP id 23C6C20128; Wed, 12 Jun 2019 11:25:58 +0200 (CEST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at jacobs-university.de Received: from hermes.jacobs-university.de ([212.201.44.23]) by localhost (demetrius5.jacobs-university.de [10.70.0.222]) (amavisd-new, port 10028) with ESMTP id mSOTBYCdCGDV; Wed, 12 Jun 2019 11:25:57 +0200 (CEST) Received: from exchange.jacobs-university.de (SXCHMB02.jacobs.jacobs-university.de [10.70.0.121]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (Client CN "exchange.jacobs-university.de", Issuer "DFN-Verein Global Issuing CA" (verified OK)) by hermes.jacobs-university.de (Postfix) with ESMTPS id D09FB20126; Wed, 12 Jun 2019 11:25:57 +0200 (CEST) Received: from anna.localdomain (10.50.218.117) by sxchmb03.jacobs.jacobs-university.de (10.70.0.155) with Microsoft SMTP Server (version=TLS1_2, cipher=TLS_ECDHE_RSA_WITH_AES_256_GCM_SHA384) id 15.1.1713.5; Wed, 12 Jun 2019 11:25:57 +0200 Received: by anna.localdomain (Postfix, from userid 501) id A8C3A300A4386C; Wed, 12 Jun 2019 11:25:56 +0200 (CEST) Date: Wed, 12 Jun 2019 11:25:56 +0200 From: Juergen Schoenwaelder To: Ladislav Lhotka CC: NETMOD WG Message-ID: <20190612092555.xotrr4moh36xv4kl@anna.jacobs.jacobs-university.de> Reply-To: Juergen Schoenwaelder Mail-Followup-To: Ladislav Lhotka , NETMOD WG References: <291106e34498ebd68f26bf9ff9b679dd5bd8f0cd.camel@nic.cz> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <291106e34498ebd68f26bf9ff9b679dd5bd8f0cd.camel@nic.cz> User-Agent: NeoMutt/20180716 X-ClientProxiedBy: SXCHMB04.jacobs.jacobs-university.de (10.70.0.156) To sxchmb03.jacobs.jacobs-university.de (10.70.0.155) Archived-At: Subject: Re: [netmod] regular expression flavours (again) X-BeenThere: netmod@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: NETMOD WG list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 12 Jun 2019 09:26:02 -0000 On Wed, Jun 12, 2019 at 10:01:30AM +0200, Ladislav Lhotka wrote: > I think it is very unfortunate that OpenConfig folks use POSIX regular > expressions instead of XSD. This of course causes confusion, see e.g. this PR: > > https://github.com/CZ-NIC/yangson/pull/22 > > Given the popularity of OpenConfig models, it seems to me that it would be > better if YANG somehow accomodates such (largely cosmetic) differences. The differences are not cosmetic. See previous discussions on this topic. > One option would be that each YANG module declares the regex flavour used in its > patterns. Yes, it is a complication, but having separate forks of YANG is much > worse. It is sad that OpenConfig does not follow the standard. If OpenConfig can't live without POSIX regular expressions, then OpenConfig should have used proper extension statements instead of simply changing the semantics of the YANG pattern statement to measn something different. That said, they do seem to declare something like oc-ext:regexp-posix; but it would have been much smarter to use for example oc-posix:regex instead of changing the semantics of the pattern statement. I would rather see OpenConfig adopting the standard or fixing their POSIX regular expression solution so that it avoids changing the semantics of YANG statements. Having statements mean different things depending on some context is pretty bad design. /js -- Juergen Schoenwaelder Jacobs University Bremen gGmbH Phone: +49 421 200 3587 Campus Ring 1 | 28759 Bremen | Germany Fax: +49 421 200 3103 From nobody Wed Jun 12 02:39:40 2019 Return-Path: X-Original-To: netmod@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: netmod@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3F70312013A; Wed, 12 Jun 2019 02:39:38 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: 0.247 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=0.247 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, RATWARE_MS_HASH=2.148, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=no autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (1024-bit key) header.d=btconnect.onmicrosoft.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id kfMYqkTGHMBi; 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DIR:OUT; SFP:1102; SCL:1; SRVR:VI1PR07MB5136; H:VI1PR07MB3118.eurprd07.prod.outlook.com; FPR:; SPF:None; LANG:en; PTR:InfoNoRecords; A:0; MX:1; received-spf: None (protection.outlook.com: btconnect.com does not designate permitted sender hosts) x-ms-exchange-senderadcheck: 1 x-microsoft-antispam-message-info: QC2wYHiPmaJeA/s4YV8wRMYQUCzbpDkgQ8Szlc6pY1F1dnITyH/up8BQqGCS8zd8QGnBn9UMuI+09BKZql++3kaOPvoCsQjSYEMBs1CYjmy1/51iauHkSPAS4qVA6e09XQqqSWGE469nQVDT9H/OVMZN2T6OJboCUfFCKe6wa3/5v1S0RcdF4hWmWCTNX66oKedSc1sln9cOL9YiAFilFmbuL0iZ1BHMQt7RvNPPzE7zz+w4pmg0H0zStFriAClwr5pEwpMmmkGwr7MDvR9SIW1JViB4n+bwtypYtgjk/jnD2d26w18Xkm+P6DecurW02SsoJZiWNfam98Mkztk7oxXIlXY2581TEu1YgLMhC09znVPt4jxQAwwQKtzDUJZPdunwJXBv1QdmvVbWkPLZSTWwOxY/DWDTdDu9tBxgJ74= Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-ID: <56B92DA131454844A069495BEFE03B5E@eurprd07.prod.outlook.com> Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable MIME-Version: 1.0 X-OriginatorOrg: btconnect.com X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-Network-Message-Id: 1c64d704-ab51-4e97-85ef-08d6ef19dfc3 X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-originalarrivaltime: 12 Jun 2019 09:39:33.0425 (UTC) X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-fromentityheader: Hosted X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-id: cf8853ed-96e5-465b-9185-806bfe185e30 X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-mailboxtype: HOSTED X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-userprincipalname: ietfc@btconnect.com X-MS-Exchange-Transport-CrossTenantHeadersStamped: VI1PR07MB5136 Archived-At: Subject: Re: [netmod] [Teas] Key collision between configured and ephemeral list entries X-BeenThere: netmod@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: NETMOD WG list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 12 Jun 2019 09:39:38 -0000 ----- Original Message ----- From: "Juergen Schoenwaelder" Sent: Tuesday, June 11, 2019 7:36 PM > On Tue, Jun 11, 2019 at 05:43:27PM +0000, Italo Busi wrote: > > > [Italo Busi] If the client knows the prefix used by the server, it > > can pick up a different prefix and use it to tag its own entries. I > > think this rule is not really complex and it seems much simpler than > > managing unintended name clashes > > A prefix only helps a little. Once you have multiple clients creating > entries, you will have to handle collisions again. Sometimes solving > the more general case leads to solutions that also work nicely in > simpler special cases. Picking up on the point earlier about needing a rule about what to do when a collision occurs, the collision only occurs when the second (or third?) entry is created and AFAICT that is unpredictable, the configuration may occur first or the ephemeral one. If the rule is that one or the other datastore takes precedence, then you have a name which changes its meaning at this point, which seems undesirable. Hence, the only rule I can see being acceptable is that the first one wins, regardless of which it is, and the second and subsequent are rejected as invalid. But then you cannot rely on the prefix telling you where the name came from - of course, YANG origin will still be accurate. Tom Petch > /js > > -- > Juergen Schoenwaelder Jacobs University Bremen gGmbH > Phone: +49 421 200 3587 Campus Ring 1 | 28759 Bremen | Germany > Fax: +49 421 200 3103 > > _______________________________________________ > netmod mailing list > netmod@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/netmod From nobody Wed Jun 12 02:39:55 2019 Return-Path: X-Original-To: netmod@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: netmod@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2DFD61201CF for ; Wed, 12 Jun 2019 02:39:43 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -6.998 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-6.998 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_HI=-5, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_NONE=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (1024-bit key) header.d=nic.cz Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id kIgczI87FBMi for ; Wed, 12 Jun 2019 02:39:40 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail.nic.cz (mail.nic.cz [217.31.204.67]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 5457312013A for ; Wed, 12 Jun 2019 02:39:40 -0700 (PDT) Received: from birdie (unknown [IPv6:2001:718:1a02:1::380]) by mail.nic.cz (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 5E255140722; Wed, 12 Jun 2019 11:39:37 +0200 (CEST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/simple; d=nic.cz; s=default; t=1560332377; bh=ejYUT53Qjfb85akol9usCUoXr17EY05QPJWOCT/PEyo=; h=From:To:Date; b=PbScaWSYSDGBAGtwhNRAmmKsWagxzWqO1R6zb4Cjb5oE9db9kfJnWPCqTXSImbKeP tbwHEHjGQFKZ2X17hGH0IdcM6/fhUSpvBZpTqgM5GRp4L0nUjNKmI8qbuCc6s9aPFn /Ajz2OYL69x1jAoRU2Cmu5X9VIeJc++8EVNUvtx8= Message-ID: From: Ladislav Lhotka To: "Rob Wilton (rwilton)" , NETMOD WG Date: Wed, 12 Jun 2019 11:39:37 +0200 In-Reply-To: References: <291106e34498ebd68f26bf9ff9b679dd5bd8f0cd.camel@nic.cz> Organization: CZ.NIC Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" User-Agent: Evolution 3.32.2 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Virus-Scanned: clamav-milter 0.100.3 at mail.nic.cz X-Virus-Status: Clean Archived-At: Subject: Re: [netmod] regular expression flavours (again) X-BeenThere: netmod@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: NETMOD WG list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 12 Jun 2019 09:39:50 -0000 Hi Rob, On Wed, 2019-06-12 at 09:25 +0000, Rob Wilton (rwilton) wrote: > Hi Lada, > > OpenConfig have already introduced a module level extension statement to > indicate that their pattern statements use POSIX regular expressions. What I meant was rather something like pattern-language "POSIX"; with the default being "XSD". It could possibly also include your proposal of XSD regex subset (issue #21). This could in fact be a good candidate for a critical extension. > > extension regexp-posix { > description > "This extension indicates that the regular expressions included > within the YANG module specified are conformant with the POSIX > regular expression format rather than the W3C standard that is > specified by RFC6020 and RFC7950."; > } > > Defined in > https://github.com/openconfig/public/blob/master/release/models/openconfig-extensions.yang > > I don't think that this should become part of the YANG standard. I suspect that developers of YANG tools are being pushed by users to include support for this anyway, so I don't see much benefit from blocking it. Lada > > Thanks, > Rob > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: netmod On Behalf Of Ladislav Lhotka > > Sent: 12 June 2019 09:02 > > To: NETMOD WG > > Subject: [netmod] regular expression flavours (again) > > > > Hi, > > > > I think it is very unfortunate that OpenConfig folks use POSIX regular > > expressions instead of XSD. This of course causes confusion, see e.g. this > > PR: > > > > https://github.com/CZ-NIC/yangson/pull/22 > > > > Given the popularity of OpenConfig models, it seems to me that it would be > > better if YANG somehow accomodates such (largely cosmetic) differences. > > > > One option would be that each YANG module declares the regex flavour used > > in its patterns. Yes, it is a complication, but having separate forks of > > YANG is much worse. > > > > ISO Schematron adopted a similar approach with "query language binding" > > that can be declared with the schema element, for example > > > > > > > > Any thoughts on this? > > > > Lada > > > > -- > > Ladislav Lhotka > > Head, CZ.NIC Labs > > PGP Key ID: 0xB8F92B08A9F76C67 > > > > _______________________________________________ > > netmod mailing list > > netmod@ietf.org > > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/netmod -- Ladislav Lhotka Head, CZ.NIC Labs PGP Key ID: 0xB8F92B08A9F76C67 From nobody Wed Jun 12 02:53:10 2019 Return-Path: X-Original-To: netmod@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: netmod@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id CAAB91200F9 for ; Wed, 12 Jun 2019 02:53:08 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -14.501 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-14.501 tagged_above=-999 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([fe80::d837:c1dd:cdb1:bb78%7]) with mapi id 15.20.1965.017; Wed, 12 Jun 2019 09:53:01 +0000 From: "Rob Wilton (rwilton)" To: Ladislav Lhotka , NETMOD WG Thread-Topic: [netmod] regular expression flavours (again) Thread-Index: AQHVIPUyXZrpgNnnhkC8kWX+UPfSraaXt5pggAAL+4CAAACa4A== Date: Wed, 12 Jun 2019 09:53:01 +0000 Message-ID: References: <291106e34498ebd68f26bf9ff9b679dd5bd8f0cd.camel@nic.cz> In-Reply-To: Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: authentication-results: spf=none (sender IP is ) smtp.mailfrom=rwilton@cisco.com; x-originating-ip: [173.38.220.62] x-ms-publictraffictype: Email x-ms-office365-filtering-correlation-id: 68bacf74-82aa-45a8-4c79-08d6ef1bc1c0 x-microsoft-antispam: BCL:0; PCL:0; RULEID:(2390118)(7020095)(4652040)(8989299)(4534185)(4627221)(201703031133081)(201702281549075)(8990200)(5600148)(711020)(4605104)(1401327)(2017052603328)(7193020); SRVR:BYAPR11MB2776; x-ms-traffictypediagnostic: BYAPR11MB2776: 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X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-mailboxtype: HOSTED X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-userprincipalname: rwilton@cisco.com X-MS-Exchange-Transport-CrossTenantHeadersStamped: BYAPR11MB2776 X-OriginatorOrg: cisco.com X-Outbound-SMTP-Client: 173.36.7.25, xch-aln-015.cisco.com X-Outbound-Node: rcdn-core-7.cisco.com Archived-At: Subject: Re: [netmod] regular expression flavours (again) X-BeenThere: netmod@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: NETMOD WG list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 12 Jun 2019 09:53:09 -0000 SGkgTGFkYSwNCg0KPiAtLS0tLU9yaWdpbmFsIE1lc3NhZ2UtLS0tLQ0KPiBGcm9tOiBMYWRpc2xh diBMaG90a2EgPGxob3RrYUBuaWMuY3o+DQo+IFNlbnQ6IDEyIEp1bmUgMjAxOSAxMDo0MA0KPiBU bzogUm9iIFdpbHRvbiAocndpbHRvbikgPHJ3aWx0b25AY2lzY28uY29tPjsgTkVUTU9EIFdHIDxu ZXRtb2RAaWV0Zi5vcmc+DQo+IFN1YmplY3Q6IFJlOiBbbmV0bW9kXSByZWd1bGFyIGV4cHJlc3Np b24gZmxhdm91cnMgKGFnYWluKQ0KPiANCj4gSGkgUm9iLA0KPiANCj4gT24gV2VkLCAyMDE5LTA2 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amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -6.998 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-6.998 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_HI=-5, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_NONE=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (1024-bit key) header.d=nic.cz Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id sssJ-AcZRCIS for ; Wed, 12 Jun 2019 04:01:39 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail.nic.cz (mail.nic.cz [217.31.204.67]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id BA68D12008D for ; Wed, 12 Jun 2019 04:01:38 -0700 (PDT) Received: from birdie (unknown [IPv6:2001:718:1a02:1::380]) by mail.nic.cz (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 439B5140C32 for ; Wed, 12 Jun 2019 13:01:35 +0200 (CEST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/simple; d=nic.cz; s=default; t=1560337295; bh=1bBDrglNwgmpLHxLDWT3pvki0cC5HnWXh4Tu0zHcamw=; h=From:To:Date; b=XO4oToj4/oZmvYXJbO2mlEVgtTMDaJ/4js/eOYJAK5U/RttFU2xpdctLTxwCgrhFK mOfASb27FjVVbGg1Z9RNEiqjb/nbors0039z7ivnafINwZDkTIwDHSXxkcgE49YJPp xMVmy8hk6cgDMCcfCz8anPEOB/OMLc1ylteA1fio= Message-ID: From: Ladislav Lhotka To: NETMOD WG Date: Wed, 12 Jun 2019 13:01:35 +0200 In-Reply-To: References: <291106e34498ebd68f26bf9ff9b679dd5bd8f0cd.camel@nic.cz> Organization: CZ.NIC Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" User-Agent: Evolution 3.32.2 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Virus-Scanned: clamav-milter 0.100.3 at mail.nic.cz X-Virus-Status: Clean Archived-At: Subject: Re: [netmod] regular expression flavours (again) X-BeenThere: netmod@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: NETMOD WG list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 12 Jun 2019 11:01:41 -0000 On Wed, 2019-06-12 at 09:53 +0000, Rob Wilton (rwilton) wrote: > Hi Lada, > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: Ladislav Lhotka > > Sent: 12 June 2019 10:40 > > To: Rob Wilton (rwilton) ; NETMOD WG > > Subject: Re: [netmod] regular expression flavours (again) > > > > Hi Rob, > > > > On Wed, 2019-06-12 at 09:25 +0000, Rob Wilton (rwilton) wrote: > > > Hi Lada, > > > > > > OpenConfig have already introduced a module level extension statement > > > to indicate that their pattern statements use POSIX regular expressions. > > > > What I meant was rather something like > > > > pattern-language "POSIX"; > > > > But depending on how many pattern languages are supported, wouldn’t that make > implementing YANG a lot harder, since implementations would need to support > all the allowed pattern languages? Not necessarily, implementors should be able decide which flavours to support. So OpenConfig would be a niche that uses POSIX, and they have to use tools that support it. The real problem here is that they use an extension for changing the semantics of a built-in YANG statement, which is IMO not permitted by RFC 7950 and causes implementations to break without warning, or even opens security holes. If it was a critical extension, and I didn't want to implement the POSIX flavour, my implementation should be able to notice it and say "Sorry, I can't work with this module". > Also, IIRC, POSIX regex doesn't support unicode, which means that it isn't > necessarily a good choice for a language that does support unicode strings by > default. Yes, this has also been discussed previously. I am not advocating POSIX in favour of XSD, I just want to guarantee that YANG tools can be made so as to behave predictably and safely. We cannot expect YANG BFUs to understand the dog- fighting between NETMOD and OpenConfig. > > > with the default being "XSD". It could possibly also include your proposal > > of XSD regex subset (issue #21). > > Really my aim was the other way around. I.e. have all YANG pattern statements > in just one simple regex language that could trivially be converted to run on > any common regex engine. I understand this, but I think the full XSD pattern language has to remain an option. Lada > > > This could in fact be a good candidate for a critical extension. > > > > > extension regexp-posix { > > > description > > > "This extension indicates that the regular expressions included > > > within the YANG module specified are conformant with the POSIX > > > regular expression format rather than the W3C standard that is > > > specified by RFC6020 and RFC7950."; > > > } > > > > > > Defined in > > > https://github.com/openconfig/public/blob/master/release/models/openco > > > nfig-extensions.yang > > > > > > I don't think that this should become part of the YANG standard. > > > > I suspect that developers of YANG tools are being pushed by users to > > include support for this anyway, so I don't see much benefit from blocking > > it. > > I don't see this as blocking it at all, but rather that a pragmatic common > solution already exists without requiring any standardization work. > > Thanks, > Rob > > > > Lada > > > > > Thanks, > > > Rob > > > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > > From: netmod On Behalf Of Ladislav Lhotka > > > > Sent: 12 June 2019 09:02 > > > > To: NETMOD WG > > > > Subject: [netmod] regular expression flavours (again) > > > > > > > > Hi, > > > > > > > > I think it is very unfortunate that OpenConfig folks use POSIX > > > > regular expressions instead of XSD. This of course causes confusion, > > > > see e.g. this > > > > PR: > > > > > > > > https://github.com/CZ-NIC/yangson/pull/22 > > > > > > > > Given the popularity of OpenConfig models, it seems to me that it > > > > would be better if YANG somehow accomodates such (largely cosmetic) > > differences. > > > > One option would be that each YANG module declares the regex flavour > > > > used in its patterns. Yes, it is a complication, but having separate > > > > forks of YANG is much worse. > > > > > > > > ISO Schematron adopted a similar approach with "query language > > binding" > > > > that can be declared with the schema element, for example > > > > > > > > > > > queryBinding="exslt"> > > > > > > > > Any thoughts on this? > > > > > > > > Lada > > > > > > > > -- > > > > Ladislav Lhotka > > > > Head, CZ.NIC Labs > > > > PGP Key ID: 0xB8F92B08A9F76C67 > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > > > netmod mailing list > > > > netmod@ietf.org > > > > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/netmod > > -- > > Ladislav Lhotka > > Head, CZ.NIC Labs > > PGP Key ID: 0xB8F92B08A9F76C67 -- Ladislav Lhotka Head, CZ.NIC Labs PGP Key ID: 0xB8F92B08A9F76C67 From nobody Thu Jun 13 06:22:27 2019 Return-Path: X-Original-To: netmod@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: netmod@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6653D1202D3 for ; Thu, 13 Jun 2019 06:22:25 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.998 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.998 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_NONE=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (1024-bit key) header.d=hq.sk Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id kDoXftQ0WNuW for ; Thu, 13 Jun 2019 06:22:22 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail.hq.sk (hq.sk [81.89.59.181]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher AECDH-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id B5BC4120153 for ; Thu, 13 Jun 2019 06:22:21 -0700 (PDT) Received: from nitebug.nitenet.local (chello085216197060.chello.sk [85.216.197.60]) by mail.hq.sk (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id BD575243A54; Thu, 13 Jun 2019 15:22:18 +0200 (CEST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/simple; d=hq.sk; s=mail; t=1560432138; bh=/jIxtIJW38AuQIHqz40T5GVfNScLML8k54zj9nGevHY=; h=Subject:To:References:From:Date:In-Reply-To; b=crzZIzfFBJLciiqg45xuSssI1oO/275hGPX1pVE8i7adSAgzTj25K4L0VCtecJtqy INg6r01OKKTaaYv3rW1EBmLoFuSkqZJFJTdRwefrQZVp+aJRc4ERySYOfpu3W0i6ad /UAz3w71c9wgDiGq4xi0haoFqmdnA2Hfixu2WSPg= To: Ladislav Lhotka , NETMOD WG References: <291106e34498ebd68f26bf9ff9b679dd5bd8f0cd.camel@nic.cz> From: Robert Varga Openpgp: preference=signencrypt Message-ID: Date: Thu, 13 Jun 2019 15:22:13 +0200 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; Linux x86_64; rv:60.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/60.7.0 MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: Content-Type: multipart/signed; micalg=pgp-sha512; protocol="application/pgp-signature"; boundary="FKgskWlz0qwIaTIrcDbzMpSW5ObcHKisi" Archived-At: Subject: Re: [netmod] regular expression flavours (again) X-BeenThere: netmod@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: NETMOD WG list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 13 Jun 2019 13:22:25 -0000 This is an OpenPGP/MIME signed message (RFC 4880 and 3156) --FKgskWlz0qwIaTIrcDbzMpSW5ObcHKisi Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="igpuFLZ1EB1BNvLyaSzHQ7gG2dlgVAVbM"; protected-headers="v1" From: Robert Varga To: Ladislav Lhotka , NETMOD WG Message-ID: Subject: Re: [netmod] regular expression flavours (again) References: <291106e34498ebd68f26bf9ff9b679dd5bd8f0cd.camel@nic.cz> In-Reply-To: --igpuFLZ1EB1BNvLyaSzHQ7gG2dlgVAVbM Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Language: en-US Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable On 12/06/2019 13:01, Ladislav Lhotka wrote: >>> What I meant was rather something like >>> >>> pattern-language "POSIX"; >>> Yeah, that is what I proposed here: https://github.com/openconfig/public/issues/44#issuecomment-416320334 >> But depending on how many pattern languages are supported, wouldn=E2=80= =99t that make >> implementing YANG a lot harder, since implementations would need to su= pport >> all the allowed pattern languages? > Not necessarily, implementors should be able decide which flavours to s= upport. > So OpenConfig would be a niche that uses POSIX, and they have to use to= ols that > support it. Well, some of the languages need to be mandatory-to-implement otherwise things like unions stop working consistently. > The real problem here is that they use an extension for changing the se= mantics > of a built-in YANG statement, which is IMO not permitted by RFC 7950 an= d causes > implementations to break without warning, or even opens security holes.= If it > was a critical extension, and I didn't want to implement the POSIX flav= our, my > implementation should be able to notice it and say "Sorry, I can't work= with > this module". I could argue that tailf:action introduced such an extension, as users expected augment to work with it -- except a parser cannot assume an extension it knows nothing about actually defines a thing in the schema tree. In my mind that constitutes prior art of getting things work in the field before standardizing. It makes little difference to me as an implementer whether the users scream at me for the patterns not working as expected (we've had equivalents of the issue you referenced pop up for years now) or they scream because the tooling rejects to work with the models. In either case the source is whoever wrote the models and it is the expectation that tools work Just Work (tm). Regards, Robert --igpuFLZ1EB1BNvLyaSzHQ7gG2dlgVAVbM-- --FKgskWlz0qwIaTIrcDbzMpSW5ObcHKisi Content-Type: application/pgp-signature; name="signature.asc" Content-Description: OpenPGP digital signature Content-Disposition: attachment; filename="signature.asc" -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- iQI/BAEBCgApFiEEdj+N7pgGP1gKvbdQJKB0S2uuNdsFAl0CTgULHG5pdGVAaHEu c2sACgkQJKB0S2uuNdvcRRAAtvyY90y1EjfNATbv7zxd8hPNeZdvp4IZ+DO3meUS y44GXeg1TDTY1RyDjY27QiaXDXHwP9nXR3oPSijAAMe2o207UW65Y1EmnVp0VSUb iHtcIqYb9fQ76Ra6u14WwIgW2aLVYQwxchxWTEm3lnp8m5KBPVAiAS18OCpjHQZO 2pMoV0VcDBIF/NTZaFgO4TJWrJ3HGrNMr/DQsoQerLn1pK1nE3h9wavdKRgaxq67 KPiulUW5zubVUnJL4/CvIjFekTHZ0D7K35rJuraz/P7/A+PWxKa6mF81RekwrWGb NT4Y/Ly/hpSpzlJ01jN1ibk87RcAKIUlItguX19VJGxyKLOHNnoYGZB3E/TKK6nf PWYWlDibkprqCKfS/LLbHpFd04YHo/VW0LOo0LuGCA6qbstxBcUCKfmdLK66FnlI vtB57AYqIuhNK0FI+wkvUHqU0067T9Y0UsNRgXS6kNyuOIUZoRu5Idfe5WczBZSX 0qWrwIVs++gYpHAXcGXt1hWvteD801JI3L9G/xaiZmkGWG9CwmuC88RNLX1UdlwY xMyWtTMPoVEBLHiNlAX0W8tiJpn2WKuUrinRCMh2OscxzlNR9c6l74WGa4p0Zu68 yJRR8P1NK/ym4EohfGPhwaYl5Dh/VoMC1gpJeh8aFGa/RwC9zaGvOG7OE2K3KBVx i7o= =ieq1 -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --FKgskWlz0qwIaTIrcDbzMpSW5ObcHKisi-- From nobody Thu Jun 13 06:31:56 2019 Return-Path: X-Original-To: netmod@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: netmod@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2D910120298 for ; Thu, 13 Jun 2019 06:31:54 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.998 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.998 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_NONE=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (1024-bit key) header.d=hq.sk Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id FzWzjqWewIVA for ; Thu, 13 Jun 2019 06:31:52 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail.hq.sk (hq.sk [81.89.59.181]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher AECDH-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 5F2F1120140 for ; Thu, 13 Jun 2019 06:31:52 -0700 (PDT) Received: from nitebug.nitenet.local (chello085216197060.chello.sk [85.216.197.60]) by mail.hq.sk (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 6953C242AE4; Thu, 13 Jun 2019 15:31:50 +0200 (CEST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/simple; d=hq.sk; s=mail; t=1560432710; bh=OoAmSpZZNo/ISKqVMeAUAvq4OPM9eyi1VP0XSZgaaBI=; h=Subject:To:References:From:Date:In-Reply-To; b=MihLfQQrIFGde/m3voU9hujUkuQQ6fUFFgB0KhveR4xPAX3xEVVWpUZUjhvLRLVXL 6X6+dSX6RWMRgthv2EcuD3icrUVDHoLcNluMPbckAyn1WgmVHH8gvtymkievR8Hjqu skpy0B2HCu9NclqWAQFw3pLTCrSIRTQzwT1rkHIQ= To: Ladislav Lhotka , NETMOD WG References: <291106e34498ebd68f26bf9ff9b679dd5bd8f0cd.camel@nic.cz> <20190612092555.xotrr4moh36xv4kl@anna.jacobs.jacobs-university.de> From: Robert Varga Openpgp: preference=signencrypt Message-ID: <4611382f-be58-a20f-1712-e5fb3e4ef3ec@hq.sk> Date: Thu, 13 Jun 2019 15:31:49 +0200 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; Linux x86_64; rv:60.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/60.7.0 MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: <20190612092555.xotrr4moh36xv4kl@anna.jacobs.jacobs-university.de> Content-Type: multipart/signed; micalg=pgp-sha512; protocol="application/pgp-signature"; boundary="mihZ2fToWkGnER0OPD6bjQ5xPXkHkVsSb" Archived-At: Subject: Re: [netmod] regular expression flavours (again) X-BeenThere: netmod@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: NETMOD WG list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 13 Jun 2019 13:31:54 -0000 This is an OpenPGP/MIME signed message (RFC 4880 and 3156) --mihZ2fToWkGnER0OPD6bjQ5xPXkHkVsSb Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="HEpcrZTunQNqpPP40gnVbS4LiqiEsne8j"; protected-headers="v1" From: Robert Varga To: Ladislav Lhotka , NETMOD WG Message-ID: <4611382f-be58-a20f-1712-e5fb3e4ef3ec@hq.sk> Subject: Re: [netmod] regular expression flavours (again) References: <291106e34498ebd68f26bf9ff9b679dd5bd8f0cd.camel@nic.cz> <20190612092555.xotrr4moh36xv4kl@anna.jacobs.jacobs-university.de> In-Reply-To: <20190612092555.xotrr4moh36xv4kl@anna.jacobs.jacobs-university.de> --HEpcrZTunQNqpPP40gnVbS4LiqiEsne8j Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Language: en-US Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable On 12/06/2019 11:25, Juergen Schoenwaelder wrote: > That said, they do seem to declare something like > oc-ext:regexp-posix; but it would have been much smarter to use for > example oc-posix:regex instead of changing the semantics of the > pattern statement. Yes, this would be preferable, but it has a downside: now you need to carry the patterns twice and must make sure they are in sync. If they are not, all sorts of implementation-dependent breakage would ensue. The differences are far from minor where specification is concerned, but they certainly minor in the vast majoritiy of the use cases and most users do not even understand REs enough to know they are dealing with a maze of twisty flavors, all alike. Do we have an easy way of understanding the corpus of pattern arguments being 'out there' in real use? Can we engineer a workable solution for the general case without getting everyone know the differences in RE engines? Something along the lines of this: https://github.com/openconfig/public/issues/44#issuecomment-501629497 perhaps? Thanks, Robert --HEpcrZTunQNqpPP40gnVbS4LiqiEsne8j-- --mihZ2fToWkGnER0OPD6bjQ5xPXkHkVsSb Content-Type: application/pgp-signature; name="signature.asc" Content-Description: OpenPGP digital signature Content-Disposition: attachment; filename="signature.asc" -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- iQI/BAEBCgApFiEEdj+N7pgGP1gKvbdQJKB0S2uuNdsFAl0CUEYLHG5pdGVAaHEu c2sACgkQJKB0S2uuNdu7Iw/9HVrkOubkNk4MOrVZDCJIyjac20CUoRxJywcYUH84 S2JpCI3Eg+aSxEsn0BEhjhzxrisgqU9DIdvmJx4rH67E8QJYAf1OWeSQtcjBfUWn 7UHo5r95fnAuTVbRkvs0JOl30Ji9rjBG9oph6ct2B2F1mblgjrGoc8LLTRTdLgEi CHc4fGHEkO4QgXaZsCShTIiSY5mZLtpCatb9DoIlhVKn47ETiyyGiVGzmeFGirzn G5PJlTyGkZ3PjCd/pVHC+8nryA3T/ujRdXNZ4+ezHd+Hnp2MQgM3kpnmxWieIOmH qRusAEmXjOhrfExrmqYkgv/uokIiQUw1ljxlrFn4sNxByrtldc9iyOYhr7k55Rt7 0vvrYG1luMZFxamGMP5ZfPJYXZOLpOysUk3u9SimlDH0UYhGUJGKsn9jVjrptPiI xfOMXiHYS/BbDvMbG6MPbemsEi7Vju7LUFlzO4rMlaZ7+BAtLnPQjB9Fs2xxtuxb N2Dx5dreqya0FYEuu2Mir9gzQABg8Jtqcm3OqG5jMou/dBcTZX0A1Ac6Ar3U4wyp +2O3aCus5TOS4wEzcXWeFWrOEZkZe8jnN/5k/jdN2J1TMLIEhoBmE3cnAExZa9Ub OuuuLbvdXy+oGWEJ3XrV1YLfjWmHJYzMBvjQ7+i2eefXB7sXg8P9cleASslARIf0 roM= =S53p -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --mihZ2fToWkGnER0OPD6bjQ5xPXkHkVsSb-- From nobody Thu Jun 13 06:44:21 2019 Return-Path: X-Original-To: netmod@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: netmod@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 42C9D120092 for ; Thu, 13 Jun 2019 06:44:20 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.899 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.899 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id E2p_GgXA2lX9 for ; Thu, 13 Jun 2019 06:44:18 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail.tail-f.com (mail.tail-f.com [46.21.102.45]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id B3B021202AA for ; Thu, 13 Jun 2019 06:44:18 -0700 (PDT) Received: from localhost (unknown [173.38.220.61]) by mail.tail-f.com (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 8D9D41AE0331; Thu, 13 Jun 2019 15:44:15 +0200 (CEST) Date: Thu, 13 Jun 2019 15:44:19 +0200 (CEST) Message-Id: <20190613.154419.129224358830255605.mbj@tail-f.com> To: nite@hq.sk Cc: lhotka@nic.cz, netmod@ietf.org From: Martin Bjorklund In-Reply-To: <4611382f-be58-a20f-1712-e5fb3e4ef3ec@hq.sk> References: <291106e34498ebd68f26bf9ff9b679dd5bd8f0cd.camel@nic.cz> <20190612092555.xotrr4moh36xv4kl@anna.jacobs.jacobs-university.de> <4611382f-be58-a20f-1712-e5fb3e4ef3ec@hq.sk> X-Mailer: Mew version 6.7 on Emacs 25.2 / Mule 6.0 (HANACHIRUSATO) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: Text/Plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Archived-At: Subject: Re: [netmod] regular expression flavours (again) X-BeenThere: netmod@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: NETMOD WG list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 13 Jun 2019 13:44:20 -0000 Robert Varga wrote: > On 12/06/2019 11:25, Juergen Schoenwaelder wrote: > > That said, they do seem to declare something like > > oc-ext:regexp-posix; but it would have been much smarter to use for > > example oc-posix:regex instead of changing the semantics of the > > pattern statement. > > Yes, this would be preferable, but it has a downside: now you need to > carry the patterns twice and must make sure they are in sync. In the OC models they would/could just use the oc-posix:regex statement, and not even use the pattern statement. The current solution doesn't really work, since it requires tools to understand the "regexp-posix" extension. And yes, I'm the first to admit that tailf:action had the same kind of problem. /martin From nobody Thu Jun 13 07:07:03 2019 Return-Path: X-Original-To: netmod@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: netmod@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 66F3C120172 for ; Thu, 13 Jun 2019 07:07:01 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.897 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.897 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_NONE=0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id HQh3wG90SEE0 for ; Thu, 13 Jun 2019 07:06:59 -0700 (PDT) Received: from atlas5.jacobs-university.de (atlas5.jacobs-university.de [212.201.44.20]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ADH-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 106BF1200FA for ; Thu, 13 Jun 2019 07:06:59 -0700 (PDT) Received: from localhost (demetrius5.irc-it.jacobs-university.de [10.70.0.222]) by atlas5.jacobs-university.de (Postfix) with ESMTP id A0DA33D; Thu, 13 Jun 2019 16:06:57 +0200 (CEST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at jacobs-university.de Received: from atlas5.jacobs-university.de ([10.70.0.198]) by localhost (demetrius5.jacobs-university.de [10.70.0.222]) (amavisd-new, port 10032) with ESMTP id v3nl4hSKjXGG; Thu, 13 Jun 2019 16:06:57 +0200 (CEST) Received: from hermes.jacobs-university.de (hermes.jacobs-university.de [212.201.44.23]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (Client CN "hermes.jacobs-university.de", Issuer "DFN-Verein Global Issuing CA" (verified OK)) by atlas5.jacobs-university.de (Postfix) with ESMTPS; Thu, 13 Jun 2019 16:06:57 +0200 (CEST) Received: from localhost (demetrius5.irc-it.jacobs-university.de [10.70.0.222]) by hermes.jacobs-university.de (Postfix) with ESMTP id 886BE20128; Thu, 13 Jun 2019 16:06:57 +0200 (CEST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at jacobs-university.de Received: from hermes.jacobs-university.de ([212.201.44.23]) by localhost (demetrius5.jacobs-university.de [10.70.0.222]) (amavisd-new, port 10028) with ESMTP id IDNftL6XGgcY; Thu, 13 Jun 2019 16:06:57 +0200 (CEST) Received: from exchange.jacobs-university.de (sxchmb03.jacobs.jacobs-university.de [10.70.0.155]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (Client CN "exchange.jacobs-university.de", Issuer "DFN-Verein Global Issuing CA" (verified OK)) by hermes.jacobs-university.de (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 4113720126; Thu, 13 Jun 2019 16:06:57 +0200 (CEST) Received: from anna.localdomain (10.50.218.117) by sxchmb03.jacobs.jacobs-university.de (10.70.0.155) with Microsoft SMTP Server (version=TLS1_2, cipher=TLS_ECDHE_RSA_WITH_AES_256_GCM_SHA384) id 15.1.1713.5; Thu, 13 Jun 2019 16:06:56 +0200 Received: by anna.localdomain (Postfix, from userid 501) id 5C38A300A5290A; Thu, 13 Jun 2019 16:06:55 +0200 (CEST) Date: Thu, 13 Jun 2019 16:06:55 +0200 From: Juergen Schoenwaelder To: Robert Varga CC: Ladislav Lhotka , NETMOD WG Message-ID: <20190613140655.jyq3iltl2v22ekmb@anna.jacobs.jacobs-university.de> Reply-To: Juergen Schoenwaelder Mail-Followup-To: Robert Varga , Ladislav Lhotka , NETMOD WG References: <291106e34498ebd68f26bf9ff9b679dd5bd8f0cd.camel@nic.cz> <20190612092555.xotrr4moh36xv4kl@anna.jacobs.jacobs-university.de> <4611382f-be58-a20f-1712-e5fb3e4ef3ec@hq.sk> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <4611382f-be58-a20f-1712-e5fb3e4ef3ec@hq.sk> User-Agent: NeoMutt/20180716 X-ClientProxiedBy: SXCHMB02.jacobs.jacobs-university.de (10.70.0.121) To sxchmb03.jacobs.jacobs-university.de (10.70.0.155) Archived-At: Subject: Re: [netmod] regular expression flavours (again) X-BeenThere: netmod@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: NETMOD WG list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 13 Jun 2019 14:07:02 -0000 On Thu, Jun 13, 2019 at 03:31:49PM +0200, Robert Varga wrote: > On 12/06/2019 11:25, Juergen Schoenwaelder wrote: > > That said, they do seem to declare something like > > oc-ext:regexp-posix; but it would have been much smarter to use for > > example oc-posix:regex instead of changing the semantics of the > > pattern statement. > > Yes, this would be preferable, but it has a downside: now you need to > carry the patterns twice and must make sure they are in sync. If they > are not, all sorts of implementation-dependent breakage would ensue. Authors could simply use the YANG pattern statement as it is defined and there is zero extra cost. > The differences are far from minor where specification is concerned, but > they certainly minor in the vast majoritiy of the use cases and most > users do not even understand REs enough to know they are dealing with a > maze of twisty flavors, all alike. > > Do we have an easy way of understanding the corpus of pattern arguments > being 'out there' in real use? > > Can we engineer a workable solution for the general case without getting > everyone know the differences in RE engines? Something along the lines > of this: > https://github.com/openconfig/public/issues/44#issuecomment-501629497 > perhaps? Please lets not (even with the best intentions) create yet another regular expression flavour. /js -- Juergen Schoenwaelder Jacobs University Bremen gGmbH Phone: +49 421 200 3587 Campus Ring 1 | 28759 Bremen | Germany Fax: +49 421 200 3103 From nobody Fri Jun 14 00:58:36 2019 Return-Path: X-Original-To: netmod@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: netmod@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5288A12018C for ; Fri, 14 Jun 2019 00:58:35 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -6.998 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-6.998 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_HI=-5, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_NONE=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (1024-bit key) header.d=nic.cz Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id BumW7mCunIrP for ; Fri, 14 Jun 2019 00:58:32 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail.nic.cz (mail.nic.cz [IPv6:2001:1488:800:400::400]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 409A912004A for ; Fri, 14 Jun 2019 00:58:32 -0700 (PDT) Received: from birdie (unknown [IPv6:2001:718:1a02:1::380]) by mail.nic.cz (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 49060140C97; Fri, 14 Jun 2019 09:58:30 +0200 (CEST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/simple; d=nic.cz; s=default; t=1560499110; bh=UbLYlEC5Suq8mBT460xazGyfn1xOs0CAIx4Q35skJ3k=; h=From:To:Date; b=xQ+W69r2hXlklHq9wLns4pv2S0c4okxzdkiLxOnwscTuMNusOTvfBpz1Wf9420Io7 Uq/Y8hqjauPZmp5jbqF1tetgeELa/npIe2xLGwLIwt8Or/Kw+Xc+1RnUtQkxkWkRiJ BvGi5w3RBaO9GnsycsIhMPHwudEPxR2rXNiCmkVg= Message-ID: From: Ladislav Lhotka To: Juergen Schoenwaelder Cc: NETMOD WG Date: Fri, 14 Jun 2019 09:58:30 +0200 In-Reply-To: <20190612092555.xotrr4moh36xv4kl@anna.jacobs.jacobs-university.de> References: <291106e34498ebd68f26bf9ff9b679dd5bd8f0cd.camel@nic.cz> <20190612092555.xotrr4moh36xv4kl@anna.jacobs.jacobs-university.de> Organization: CZ.NIC Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" User-Agent: Evolution 3.32.2 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Virus-Scanned: clamav-milter 0.100.3 at mail.nic.cz X-Virus-Status: Clean Archived-At: Subject: Re: [netmod] regular expression flavours (again) X-BeenThere: netmod@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: NETMOD WG list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 14 Jun 2019 07:58:35 -0000 On Wed, 2019-06-12 at 11:25 +0200, Juergen Schoenwaelder wrote: > On Wed, Jun 12, 2019 at 10:01:30AM +0200, Ladislav Lhotka wrote: > > > I think it is very unfortunate that OpenConfig folks use POSIX regular > > expressions instead of XSD. This of course causes confusion, see e.g. this > > PR: > > > > https://github.com/CZ-NIC/yangson/pull/22 > > > > Given the popularity of OpenConfig models, it seems to me that it would be > > better if YANG somehow accomodates such (largely cosmetic) differences. > > The differences are not cosmetic. See previous discussions on this topic. What I meant is that such differences are still relatively easy to handle, unlike e.g. the schema structure that is incompatible with the current conventions and NMDA. > > > One option would be that each YANG module declares the regex flavour used in > > its > > patterns. Yes, it is a complication, but having separate forks of YANG is > > much > > worse. > > It is sad that OpenConfig does not follow the standard. If OpenConfig > can't live without POSIX regular expressions, then OpenConfig should > have used proper extension statements instead of simply changing the > semantics of the YANG pattern statement to measn something > different. That said, they do seem to declare something like > oc-ext:regexp-posix; but it would have been much smarter to use for > example oc-posix:regex instead of changing the semantics of the > pattern statement. > > I would rather see OpenConfig adopting the standard or fixing their > POSIX regular expression solution so that it avoids changing the > semantics of YANG statements. Having statements mean different things > depending on some context is pretty bad design. I agree with all this but, apparently, OpenConfig people don't care too much. And since they are much more agile than the IETF, our views may soon become irrelevant. Lada > > /js > -- Ladislav Lhotka Head, CZ.NIC Labs PGP Key ID: 0xB8F92B08A9F76C67 From nobody Fri Jun 14 02:12:30 2019 Return-Path: X-Original-To: netmod@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: netmod@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id A1C7C1200CE for ; Fri, 14 Jun 2019 02:12:28 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -4.197 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-4.197 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-2.3, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_NONE=0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id lnV21Aw6Qs0h for ; Fri, 14 Jun 2019 02:12:26 -0700 (PDT) Received: from smtp.uni-bremen.de (gabriel-vm-2.zfn.uni-bremen.de [134.102.50.17]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher AECDH-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id F057612002F for ; Fri, 14 Jun 2019 02:12:25 -0700 (PDT) Received: from [192.168.217.113] (p54A6CA4C.dip0.t-ipconnect.de [84.166.202.76]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by smtp.uni-bremen.de (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 45QFHW3wCpzyP1; Fri, 14 Jun 2019 11:12:23 +0200 (CEST) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 11.5 \(3445.9.1\)) From: Carsten Bormann In-Reply-To: Date: Fri, 14 Jun 2019 11:12:25 +0200 Cc: Juergen Schoenwaelder , NETMOD WG X-Mao-Original-Outgoing-Id: 582196344.147365-758f582eb5a9ce194593ff3f8b62569f Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Message-Id: <996EFBB4-E24C-4A3D-A3C3-F0425E0C74AF@tzi.org> References: <291106e34498ebd68f26bf9ff9b679dd5bd8f0cd.camel@nic.cz> <20190612092555.xotrr4moh36xv4kl@anna.jacobs.jacobs-university.de> To: Ladislav Lhotka X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.3445.9.1) Archived-At: Subject: Re: [netmod] regular expression flavours (again) X-BeenThere: netmod@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: NETMOD WG list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 14 Jun 2019 09:12:29 -0000 On Jun 14, 2019, at 09:58, Ladislav Lhotka wrote: >=20 > I agree with all this but, apparently, OpenConfig people don't care = too much. > And since they are much more agile than the IETF, our views may soon = become > irrelevant. If this becomes our attitude, we already are irrelevant. I have no idea why someone would go for Posix REs of all things, but if = OpenConfig wants to do that, more power to them. However, YANG has = well-defined extension points, and arbitrarily changing the semantics of = the pattern statement is not one of them. So we have to make sure they = know that this is not tolerable, and probably show them the way on a = good way to make use of the existing extension points. For CDDL, we essentially have the same problem (nobody likes W3C XSD, = not even their REs, but there were good reasons to choose them, not the = least that YANG also chose them). CDDL also has an extension point that = is useful here, and RFC 8610 Section 3.8.3.2 was added specifically to = guide CDDL users to use the right extension point once the need comes = up: https://tools.ietf.org/html/rfc8610#section-3.8.3.2 I would expect the netmod community to write a similar section, in a = separate I-D of its own if need be, and obtain IETF consensus on it. = Make the OpenConfig people aware of it (now, and when it=E2=80=99s = done). Github issues are a good way to do the latter. 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cisco.com X-Outbound-SMTP-Client: 173.36.7.13, xch-aln-003.cisco.com X-Outbound-Node: alln-core-10.cisco.com Archived-At: Subject: Re: [netmod] regular expression flavours (again) X-BeenThere: netmod@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: NETMOD WG list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 14 Jun 2019 09:29:47 -0000 DQoNCj4gLS0tLS1PcmlnaW5hbCBNZXNzYWdlLS0tLS0NCj4gRnJvbTogbmV0bW9kIDxuZXRtb2Qt Ym91bmNlc0BpZXRmLm9yZz4gT24gQmVoYWxmIE9mIEp1ZXJnZW4gU2Nob2Vud2FlbGRlcg0KPiBT ZW50OiAxMyBKdW5lIDIwMTkgMTU6MDcNCj4gVG86IFJvYmVydCBWYXJnYSA8bml0ZUBocS5zaz4N Cj4gQ2M6IE5FVE1PRCBXRyA8bmV0bW9kQGlldGYub3JnPg0KPiBTdWJqZWN0OiBSZTogW25ldG1v ZF0gcmVndWxhciBleHByZXNzaW9uIGZsYXZvdXJzIChhZ2FpbikNCj4gDQo+ID4NCj4gPiBDYW4g d2UgZW5naW5lZXIgYSB3b3JrYWJsZSBzb2x1dGlvbiBmb3IgdGhlIGdlbmVyYWwgY2FzZSB3aXRo b3V0DQo+ID4gZ2V0dGluZyBldmVyeW9uZSBrbm93IHRoZSBkaWZmZXJlbmNlcyBpbiBSRSBlbmdp 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aXN0aW5mby9uZXRtb2QNCg== From nobody Fri Jun 14 02:56:41 2019 Return-Path: X-Original-To: netmod@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: netmod@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 13D0A1200A3 for ; Fri, 14 Jun 2019 02:56:40 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -4.197 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-4.197 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-2.3, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_NONE=0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id OhZYWKGDCNJ1 for ; Fri, 14 Jun 2019 02:56:38 -0700 (PDT) Received: from smtp.uni-bremen.de (gabriel-vm-2.zfn.uni-bremen.de [134.102.50.17]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher AECDH-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 5072A1200B5 for ; Fri, 14 Jun 2019 02:56:38 -0700 (PDT) Received: from [192.168.217.113] (p54A6CA4C.dip0.t-ipconnect.de [84.166.202.76]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by smtp.uni-bremen.de (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 45QGGX37tKzyvV; Fri, 14 Jun 2019 11:56:36 +0200 (CEST) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 11.5 \(3445.9.1\)) From: Carsten Bormann In-Reply-To: Date: Fri, 14 Jun 2019 11:56:35 +0200 Cc: Juergen Schoenwaelder , Robert Varga , NETMOD WG X-Mao-Original-Outgoing-Id: 582198993.186554-d220cfd4e541012e660ccc1da02e6566 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Message-Id: <815A80B5-A05F-4867-BFF4-7C08081F433A@tzi.org> References: <291106e34498ebd68f26bf9ff9b679dd5bd8f0cd.camel@nic.cz> <20190612092555.xotrr4moh36xv4kl@anna.jacobs.jacobs-university.de> <4611382f-be58-a20f-1712-e5fb3e4ef3ec@hq.sk> <20190613140655.jyq3iltl2v22ekmb@anna.jacobs.jacobs-university.de> To: "Rob Wilton (rwilton)" X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.3445.9.1) Archived-At: Subject: Re: [netmod] regular expression flavours (again) X-BeenThere: netmod@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: NETMOD WG list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 14 Jun 2019 09:56:40 -0000 On Jun 14, 2019, at 11:29, Rob Wilton (rwilton) = wrote: >=20 > I'm sure that someone can post an XKCD of why this is a bad idea =F0=9F=98= =89 Yeah, going ahead and standardizing another regex dialect that is subtly = incompatible with everything else is exactly what we need. We could even make sure that dialect is actually useful in a pattern = statement (e.g., by making it self-anchoring). But wait, somebody has already done that work for us! W3C did, when they designed their XSD-types=E2=80=A6 So we are done already! Now the main deployability problem with W3C XSD regexes is that they = added some functionality that is sorely missing in other dialects, such = as character class subtraction, so it is more than an hour of work to = write a converter from XSD regexes to you favorite flavor. Maybe we = should encourage some open source software in this space=E2=80=A6 Gr=C3=BC=C3=9Fe, Carsten From nobody Fri Jun 14 03:08:43 2019 Return-Path: X-Original-To: netmod@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: netmod@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id C3DF6120180 for ; Fri, 14 Jun 2019 03:08:42 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -14.5 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-14.5 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_HI=-5, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001, USER_IN_DEF_DKIM_WL=-7.5] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (1024-bit key) header.d=cisco.com header.b=aijqntKT; dkim=pass (1024-bit key) header.d=cisco.onmicrosoft.com header.b=tPN64ZRz Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id u_tXrYuLTJuP for ; 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Fri, 14 Jun 2019 12:45:28 +0200 (CEST) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 11.5 \(3445.9.1\)) From: Carsten Bormann In-Reply-To: Date: Fri, 14 Jun 2019 12:45:28 +0200 Cc: Juergen Schoenwaelder , Robert Varga , NETMOD WG X-Mao-Original-Outgoing-Id: 582201926.407581-d4a8e5626d374ee514a8fdd56116bbb7 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Message-Id: References: <291106e34498ebd68f26bf9ff9b679dd5bd8f0cd.camel@nic.cz> <20190612092555.xotrr4moh36xv4kl@anna.jacobs.jacobs-university.de> <4611382f-be58-a20f-1712-e5fb3e4ef3ec@hq.sk> <20190613140655.jyq3iltl2v22ekmb@anna.jacobs.jacobs-university.de> <815A80B5-A05F-4867-BFF4-7C08081F433A@tzi.org> To: "Rob Wilton (rwilton)" X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.3445.9.1) Archived-At: Subject: Re: [netmod] regular expression flavours (again) X-BeenThere: netmod@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: NETMOD WG list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 14 Jun 2019 10:45:35 -0000 On Jun 14, 2019, at 12:08, Rob Wilton (rwilton) = wrote: >=20 > Or perhaps we could define a regex language that worked with normal = implementations without requiring any conversion. Unlikely, as it is easy to write an regex that inadvertently triggers = some =E2=80=9Cfeature" in a specific flavor. So you would need to list = all the current and future idiosyncrasies of all flavors and outlaw = them. Worse, what you have outlawed may be *the* valid way to represent = something in some other dialect, so the specifier needs to jump through = hoops to work around that or simply cannot write down the regex needed. = Also, all those features that are subtly different between flavors = (starting with ., \s, =E2=80=A6) can=E2=80=99t be used. The approach probably works for [A-Fa-f0-9]+, but becomes icky for = anything more complicated quickly. (And, actually, XSD regexes are very = close to what you would come up with, anyway, except for =E2=80=9Cfeatures= =E2=80=9D like character class subtraction or block escapes.) Oh, and defining =E2=80=9Cnormal implementations=E2=80=9D is left as an = exercise to the reader :-) What we could do (and that would be quite useful, I think) is *document* = the subset of XSD regexes that actually has the same meaning in PCRE2, = Java8, JavaScript, .NET and a few more real-world regex languages after = adding the necessary anchors in those languages. Gr=C3=BC=C3=9Fe, Carsten From nobody Fri Jun 14 06:05:13 2019 Return-Path: X-Original-To: netmod@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: netmod@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id F2DE9120072 for ; Fri, 14 Jun 2019 06:05:11 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.997 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.997 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_NONE=0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (1024-bit key) header.d=hq.sk Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id SlEieh1KLMcD for ; Fri, 14 Jun 2019 06:05:09 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail.hq.sk (hq.sk [81.89.59.181]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher AECDH-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 64A18120052 for ; Fri, 14 Jun 2019 06:05:07 -0700 (PDT) Received: from nitebug.nitenet.local (chello085216197060.chello.sk [85.216.197.60]) by mail.hq.sk (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id D8CF3243FA8; Fri, 14 Jun 2019 15:05:04 +0200 (CEST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/simple; d=hq.sk; s=mail; t=1560517504; bh=yiFgNnfI/g8AIimbcudlr6fVi3GIGafO+HIo4tlCfLg=; h=Subject:To:Cc:References:From:Date:In-Reply-To; b=KAvB8oT7YbyWq21PQKvipLH6aNPfGJdk0QNhlqKQhz78avzzVf9OlpM58sj1Ch/nt w2N2nzV0ok//ZB+u8GBBNQryIxu2qlG8s8uUvIIYM077tFpN+FSwhhw+brVVooYQx8 n7sykXXH1U569LmMqGa2o0eHQlpOip9tScW/l2cU= To: Carsten Bormann , "Rob Wilton (rwilton)" Cc: Juergen Schoenwaelder , NETMOD WG References: <291106e34498ebd68f26bf9ff9b679dd5bd8f0cd.camel@nic.cz> <20190612092555.xotrr4moh36xv4kl@anna.jacobs.jacobs-university.de> <4611382f-be58-a20f-1712-e5fb3e4ef3ec@hq.sk> <20190613140655.jyq3iltl2v22ekmb@anna.jacobs.jacobs-university.de> <815A80B5-A05F-4867-BFF4-7C08081F433A@tzi.org> From: Robert Varga Openpgp: preference=signencrypt Message-ID: <9c16eaf8-5b68-a0b6-7903-09c447cd95e1@hq.sk> Date: Fri, 14 Jun 2019 15:04:51 +0200 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; Linux x86_64; rv:60.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/60.7.0 MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: <815A80B5-A05F-4867-BFF4-7C08081F433A@tzi.org> Content-Type: multipart/signed; micalg=pgp-sha512; protocol="application/pgp-signature"; boundary="yIWhf9ppYF4Pk0m3bf9z6ypCPkAKybXsM" Archived-At: Subject: Re: [netmod] regular expression flavours (again) X-BeenThere: netmod@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: NETMOD WG list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 14 Jun 2019 13:05:12 -0000 This is an OpenPGP/MIME signed message (RFC 4880 and 3156) --yIWhf9ppYF4Pk0m3bf9z6ypCPkAKybXsM Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="pL7d0xQ1d0AKU59L5TenNp8EGLLhvSlov"; protected-headers="v1" From: Robert Varga To: Carsten Bormann , "Rob Wilton (rwilton)" Cc: Juergen Schoenwaelder , NETMOD WG Message-ID: <9c16eaf8-5b68-a0b6-7903-09c447cd95e1@hq.sk> Subject: Re: [netmod] regular expression flavours (again) References: <291106e34498ebd68f26bf9ff9b679dd5bd8f0cd.camel@nic.cz> <20190612092555.xotrr4moh36xv4kl@anna.jacobs.jacobs-university.de> <4611382f-be58-a20f-1712-e5fb3e4ef3ec@hq.sk> <20190613140655.jyq3iltl2v22ekmb@anna.jacobs.jacobs-university.de> <815A80B5-A05F-4867-BFF4-7C08081F433A@tzi.org> In-Reply-To: <815A80B5-A05F-4867-BFF4-7C08081F433A@tzi.org> --pL7d0xQ1d0AKU59L5TenNp8EGLLhvSlov Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Language: en-US Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable On 14/06/2019 11:56, Carsten Bormann wrote: > Now the main deployability problem with W3C XSD regexes is that they ad= ded some functionality that is sorely missing in other dialects, such as = character class subtraction, so it is more than an hour of work to write = a converter from XSD regexes to you favorite flavor. Maybe we should enc= ourage some open source software in this space=E2=80=A6 Having gone through the path of: - just throw it in java.util.regex.Pattern, with ^$ wrapped - oh yeah, that does not work for complex patterns - oh wait, character class references are different - oh wait, character groups are different =2E.. I decided to take this exact approach here: https://git.opendaylight.org/gerrit/73875 . The idea is to contribute the ANTLR grammar to https://github.com/antlr/grammars-v4/ so that anybody working with a language supported by ANTLR can get some head star= t. This work low priority for me, though, as the current set of hacks work well enough and a complete solution requires Java 9 anyway -- so anyone is free to pick it up... Regards, Robert --pL7d0xQ1d0AKU59L5TenNp8EGLLhvSlov-- --yIWhf9ppYF4Pk0m3bf9z6ypCPkAKybXsM Content-Type: application/pgp-signature; name="signature.asc" Content-Description: OpenPGP digital signature Content-Disposition: attachment; filename="signature.asc" -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- iQI/BAEBCgApFiEEdj+N7pgGP1gKvbdQJKB0S2uuNdsFAl0Dm3QLHG5pdGVAaHEu c2sACgkQJKB0S2uuNdtrzQ/+OuXzAop2AVdha10Nd2fjlpz5evyvqQuJb79+apHe ZgtZYGQuUmLAF/BFrrwUZBiKYCXpgpK9GtRMOyZfkoQOdJ3UqazLT2YoXqve4QqC lbNGWHBXqDnu3ahY2fPMrnfMMsiOQ2uCOFfUh/1x1uyZFOD9ihlNjaobJG/Ky+9C w+GnoOeFr1M2A4q6h+NSrHobekkpdtt98nRG6W1BzfkmyKScDfPDyoJl6Mctn3ca 6juYSXpVvzj3eA+FM87mPpbYDbZHIrjh6eC+cLvcJbDILEay9qtzDGg35U47wPnV mRldTIImFWPGIiogrVC5ujCIhniRjKSDF5Un+mr8qCWy5y3zIqaSh1oTLcSeRAZP VLb+ACwvgrcpvWuetn//XzAJV2t0xXx+wuLAuFl1mspq4nqvgR9XCZm110ykskQY i6Pvk8I/mPWVXZedBA4SFMwOOMiQhjNj/FwUag5go6rIS8bWDXdq5G+2kAmICYxF r4kdXKJET8JqrCh6fco/lZeJ2wWpn1zB1cWYkU3MqeDAXyFdWlXBjCTtMEDyf2vz Rv05XHTAj0s6QKbRb7WCmC5QjVUzt0T1D/otCHKulujYT8cs0LqqWxJRyBl8N7ed 9fH/z9R9oXY8lkyQKeqnV2oBtfw6lDZGE2BqEqC/4wNNnuwNhIIwwOtFrBUazCK1 fYo= =GeKk -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --yIWhf9ppYF4Pk0m3bf9z6ypCPkAKybXsM-- From nobody Sun Jun 16 08:50:40 2019 Return-Path: X-Original-To: netmod@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: netmod@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 09E9D1201D3 for ; 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Intel Mac OS X 10.14; rv:60.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/60.7.0 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/signed; micalg=pgp-sha1; protocol="application/pgp-signature"; boundary="8WBS3xk7HnKzUXdavKTcag7MtaO7hu6gj" Archived-At: Subject: [netmod] IETF 105 key dates X-BeenThere: netmod@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: NETMOD WG list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sun, 16 Jun 2019 15:50:38 -0000 This is an OpenPGP/MIME signed message (RFC 4880 and 3156) --8WBS3xk7HnKzUXdavKTcag7MtaO7hu6gj Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="KmyZ86MWqNuQaRuEnqEY4usPrmM9SLKnM"; protected-headers="v1" From: joel jaeggli To: NETMOD Working Group Message-ID: <69790b33-c2e9-4d73-7c62-02330c981cea@bogus.com> Subject: IETF 105 key dates --KmyZ86MWqNuQaRuEnqEY4usPrmM9SLKnM Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Language: en-US Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable This week we are coming up on a month out from the The IETF 105 meeting in Montreal. Some milestones between now and then. 06/21 (friday) we will get the preliminary agenda and 6/28 the final version of the scehedule will be published. 07/08 Is the cutoff date for draft submission. It would be best if we are to reserve time on the agenda that documents be submitted and surfaced on the mailing list well before then. 07/10 Our preliminary agenda is due. 07/20 IETF 105 commences. Thanks for keeping these in mind. Joel --KmyZ86MWqNuQaRuEnqEY4usPrmM9SLKnM-- --8WBS3xk7HnKzUXdavKTcag7MtaO7hu6gj Content-Type: application/pgp-signature; name="signature.asc" Content-Description: OpenPGP digital signature Content-Disposition: attachment; filename="signature.asc" -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Comment: GPGTools - http://gpgtools.org iF0EARECAB0WIQRcbgEEuvBAsFvTw4vwADWrtn9WsgUCXQZlRQAKCRDwADWrtn9W sscyAJ92teWALq/f7fJ1S9R9fez01Qx3BgCeNbPuWo3se7BdfIwgNlzDb80eSyQ= =cWyu -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --8WBS3xk7HnKzUXdavKTcag7MtaO7hu6gj-- From nobody Sun Jun 16 23:32:48 2019 Return-Path: X-Original-To: netmod@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: netmod@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id D6F0D12011B for ; Sun, 16 Jun 2019 23:32:45 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.91 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.91 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_05=-0.5, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-2.3, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, T_DKIMWL_WL_HIGH=-0.01] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (1024-bit key) header.d=ericsson.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 1KGHRsuctXS5 for ; Sun, 16 Jun 2019 23:32:43 -0700 (PDT) Received: from sesbmg23.ericsson.net (sesbmg23.ericsson.net [193.180.251.37]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 1B05E12000E for ; Sun, 16 Jun 2019 23:32:42 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; d=ericsson.com; s=mailgw201801; c=relaxed/relaxed; q=dns/txt; i=@ericsson.com; t=1560753160; x=1563345160; h=From:Sender:Reply-To:Subject:Date:Message-ID:To:Cc:MIME-Version:Content-Type: Content-Transfer-Encoding:Content-ID:Content-Description:Resent-Date:Resent-From: Resent-Sender:Resent-To:Resent-Cc:Resent-Message-ID:In-Reply-To:References:List-Id: List-Help:List-Unsubscribe:List-Subscribe:List-Post:List-Owner:List-Archive; bh=Ud9BEJ8BxA0AXk/vWhR2uWfr10xlzCrCR7ferVqZ+Zs=; b=XauoDhJV+A4htaNeBYfh6AyorsFafhyHesd3jnToq30DwQRuM5lTSETnMcpqOPeb RU3xSRK+iW0vUm85R6BWBx5MFv++ZNMRzU7xEF9I9naeCBdKC8qlvxpbybYNTHrQ aU7+ZlrErjzkrmx7RmR7v+i5xLUmY4arivp1Fv/otz8=; X-AuditID: c1b4fb25-3b1ff700000029f0-51-5d0734083019 Received: from ESESBMB505.ericsson.se (Unknown_Domain [153.88.183.118]) by sesbmg23.ericsson.net (Symantec Mail Security) with SMTP id 56.45.10736.804370D5; Mon, 17 Jun 2019 08:32:40 +0200 (CEST) Received: from ESESSMB505.ericsson.se (153.88.183.166) by ESESBMB505.ericsson.se (153.88.183.172) with Microsoft SMTP Server (version=TLS1_2, cipher=TLS_ECDHE_RSA_WITH_AES_128_CBC_SHA256_P256) id 15.1.1713.5; Mon, 17 Jun 2019 08:32:40 +0200 Received: from [159.107.196.194] (153.88.183.153) by smtp.internal.ericsson.com (153.88.183.193) with Microsoft SMTP Server id 15.1.1713.5 via Frontend Transport; Mon, 17 Jun 2019 08:32:40 +0200 From: Balazs Lengyel To: "netmod@ietf.org" Message-ID: Date: Mon, 17 Jun 2019 08:32:39 +0200 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 10.0; WOW64; rv:60.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/60.7.1 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/signed; protocol="application/pkcs7-signature"; micalg=sha-256; boundary="------------ms000301070803000609020107" X-Brightmail-Tracker: H4sIAAAAAAAAA+NgFrrDLMWRmVeSWpSXmKPExsUyM2J7mS6HCXuswbwFWhbzLzayOjB6LFny kymAMYrLJiU1J7MstUjfLoErY1bLDOaC/UYVd9+fZ25gXGnQxcjJISFgIvGwczVrFyMXh5DA UUaJb6c+QDnfGCXun/rCBuEcY5S4NeEuO0gLm4CRxNT+8ywgtrCApsTilW1sILaIgLrEzJ3r wWxeAXuJucuWgNksAqoSB06/ZQWxRQViJRadaIGqEZQ4OfMJ2BxmgW5GiQ2/MkBsIQENiYcX /rJOYOSdhaRsFpIyCNtMYt7mh8wQtrbEsoWvoWxxiVtP5jNB2NYSM34dZIOwFSWmdD9kh7BN JV4f/cgIYRtLLFv3l20BI+cqRtHi1OKk3HQjY73Uoszk4uL8PL281JJNjMBwPrjlt+oOxstv HA8xCnAwKvHwuhmzxwqxJpYVV+YeYlQBmvNow+oLjFIsefl5qUoivPPsWGKFeFMSK6tSi/Lj i0pzUosPMUpzsCiJ8673/hcjJJCeWJKanZpakFoEk2Xi4JRqYKzZVsyy/VV7J+upBCuXWCM/ 5Q+B73aW1c1aeTq/bafTXw1GvXmO3L+eNTR8PRUnsl1kvumjlw4B5eu3bJftdVhw42vZnXRF HhOpXUVKCusY0nIifqc8bDij6vQsNat4z8T8s8Kr7j3XLO4wqMisOvOqbUKFse9n9eZSj+yl vlJsSe8lOV8cUGIpzkg01GIuKk4EAFXhgPFvAgAA Archived-At: Subject: [netmod] Yang Schema mount implementation X-BeenThere: netmod@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: NETMOD WG list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 17 Jun 2019 06:32:46 -0000 --------------ms000301070803000609020107 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Language: en-US Hello, Who has implemented YANG schema mount? Are there SW tools already=20 implementing it? regards Balazs --=20 Balazs Lengyel Ericsson Hungary Ltd. Senior Specialist Mobile: +36-70-330-7909 email: Balazs.Lengyel@ericsson.com --------------ms000301070803000609020107 Content-Type: application/pkcs7-signature; name="smime.p7s" Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 Content-Disposition: attachment; filename="smime.p7s" Content-Description: S/MIME Cryptographic Signature MIAGCSqGSIb3DQEHAqCAMIACAQExDzANBglghkgBZQMEAgEFADCABgkqhkiG9w0BBwEAAKCC DMkwggX/MIID56ADAgECAhEA6b7XEWzAzOaLFTWM1P8xITANBgkqhkiG9w0BAQsFADBHMQsw CQYDVQQGEwJTRTERMA8GA1UECgwIRXJpY3Nzb24xJTAjBgNVBAMMHEVyaWNzc29uIE5MIElu ZGl2aWR1YWwgQ0EgdjMwHhcNMTcxMDA5MTUyNDU4WhcNMjAxMDA5MTUyNDU3WjBqMREwDwYD VQQKDAhFcmljc3NvbjEYMBYGA1UEAwwPQmFsw6F6cyBMZW5neWVsMSowKAYJKoZIhvcNAQkB FhtiYWxhenMubGVuZ3llbEBlcmljc3Nvbi5jb20xDzANBgNVBAUTBkVUSEJMTDCCASIwDQYJ KoZIhvcNAQEBBQADggEPADCCAQoCggEBANRS2ed5R8eLjbxg+S9b4CwI14oIIqrvZLNRmkGC CKPL6gtU7RyBNdcfKCtn4pPxNvISQ/C4eL5XhNDFYDIyEZqdZkdZld72CERmskMlsLMUwc6p H7AQOcjW8zex9BDryJKxZAt32imdvb+KGImW326nvlVGnKPmV5pu/PE4tCKYmBmJdpnOw89P 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mail.tail-f.com (mail.tail-f.com [46.21.102.45]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id A47A11200DB for ; Mon, 17 Jun 2019 00:38:33 -0700 (PDT) Received: from localhost (unknown [173.38.220.61]) by mail.tail-f.com (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 73E6D1AE0331; Mon, 17 Jun 2019 09:38:30 +0200 (CEST) Date: Mon, 17 Jun 2019 09:38:34 +0200 (CEST) Message-Id: <20190617.093834.966081151669505193.mbj@tail-f.com> To: balazs.lengyel@ericsson.com Cc: netmod@ietf.org From: Martin Bjorklund In-Reply-To: References: X-Mailer: Mew version 6.7 on Emacs 25.2 / Mule 6.0 (HANACHIRUSATO) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: Text/Plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Archived-At: Subject: Re: [netmod] Yang Schema mount implementation X-BeenThere: netmod@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: NETMOD WG list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 17 Jun 2019 07:38:35 -0000 Balazs Lengyel wrote: > Hello, > > Who has implemented YANG schema mount? Are there SW tools already > implementing it? We have implemented YANG schema mount in our NSO product. /martin From nobody Mon Jun 17 10:39:09 2019 Return-Path: <0100016b6685036e-0f341024-b692-42d1-aa0a-9d55cccc5402-000000@amazonses.watsen.net> X-Original-To: netmod@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: netmod@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id C7936120496 for ; Mon, 17 Jun 2019 10:39:01 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.312 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.312 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_H2=-0.415, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_NONE=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (1024-bit key) header.d=amazonses.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id MFi7L8X3MJ1e for ; Mon, 17 Jun 2019 10:38:59 -0700 (PDT) Received: from a8-31.smtp-out.amazonses.com (a8-31.smtp-out.amazonses.com [54.240.8.31]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 8890D12047A for ; Mon, 17 Jun 2019 10:38:43 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; q=dns/txt; c=relaxed/simple; s=6gbrjpgwjskckoa6a5zn6fwqkn67xbtw; d=amazonses.com; t=1560793122; h=From:Content-Type:Mime-Version:Subject:Date:References:To:In-Reply-To:Message-Id:Feedback-ID; bh=TUvbdIOcnbH05teVWcI8BDlwTYpc2YaZvCEfDyy+2yM=; b=WzrC2fauFPBqaf7AaSIZqJIqU6oo4yBduKz2giWSkHyvgAxBe0zh4w9HgtwdMNkD O4SOyaneUDtHncUlSLVVHCV0Kw6o7WMRLS/4SniSEKx3p8rJhKMxMC6S1E30ymWBlCs wM8NvMaGfp6tHXp0kRqUi/CaMl9LwD/0Oz1HxjZY= From: Kent Watsen Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="Apple-Mail=_D6CDBBB3-9D84-4B82-BE3D-67ADCAE10FB5" Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 12.4 \(3445.104.11\)) Date: Mon, 17 Jun 2019 17:38:41 +0000 References: <155922665888.22158.34610875303939053@ietfa.amsl.com> <0100016b0930277d-e4cf4cc9-3be1-45c7-9ca1-505ccc8e59ea-000000@email.amazonses.com> To: "netmod@ietf.org" In-Reply-To: <0100016b0930277d-e4cf4cc9-3be1-45c7-9ca1-505ccc8e59ea-000000@email.amazonses.com> Message-ID: <0100016b6685036e-0f341024-b692-42d1-aa0a-9d55cccc5402-000000@email.amazonses.com> X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.3445.104.11) X-SES-Outgoing: 2019.06.17-54.240.8.31 Feedback-ID: 1.us-east-1.DKmIRZFhhsBhtmFMNikgwZUWVrODEw9qVcPhqJEI2DA=:AmazonSES Archived-At: Subject: Re: [netmod] I-D Action: draft-ietf-netmod-artwork-folding-03.txt X-BeenThere: netmod@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: NETMOD WG list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 17 Jun 2019 17:39:07 -0000 --Apple-Mail=_D6CDBBB3-9D84-4B82-BE3D-67ADCAE10FB5 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii I just posted an Editorial update that only touches the non-normative = script to add a -q (quiet) flag. Here's the diff: = https://tools.ietf.org/rfcdiff?url2=3Ddraft-ietf-netmod-artwork-folding-04= .txt = . Separately, it's been more than two weeks since the below message. = There has been no comments on #2 below, and so the chairs can more = forward with the publishing request now? Kent // author (recused chair) > On May 30, 2019, at 10:41 AM, Kent Watsen wrote: >=20 >=20 > This update reflects the changes discussed during the Last Call plus = the following additional changes: >=20 > 1) s/see if any/ensure at least one/ (EDITORIAL: sounded too casual = before) > 2) s/MUST NOT precede a space (' ') character/MUST NOT be on top of = a space (' ') character/ (TECHNICAL: see below) > 3) wrapped the script with and (EDITORIAL, = per idnits) >=20 > Regarding #2, this change was made after I examined the algorithm more = carefully. It would be good for others to confirm this rather critical = change. >=20 > Thanks, > Kent // contributor >=20 >=20 >=20 >> On May 30, 2019, at 10:30 AM, internet-drafts@ietf.org = wrote: >>=20 >>=20 >> A New Internet-Draft is available from the on-line Internet-Drafts = directories. >> This draft is a work item of the Network Modeling WG of the IETF. >>=20 >> Title : Handling Long Lines in Inclusions in = Internet-Drafts and RFCs >> Authors : Kent Watsen >> Adrian Farrel >> Qin Wu >> Filename : draft-ietf-netmod-artwork-folding-03.txt >> Pages : 25 >> Date : 2019-05-30 >>=20 >> Abstract: >> This document defines two strategies for handling long lines in >> width-bounded text content. One strategy is based on the historic >> use of a single backslash ('\') character to indicate where line- >> folding has occurred, with the continuation occurring with the = first >> non-space (' ') character on the next line. The second strategy >> extends the first strategy by adding a second backslash character = to >> identify where the continuation begins and thereby able to handle >> cases not supported by the first strategy. Both strategies use a >> self-describing header enabling automated reconstitution of the >> original content. >>=20 >>=20 >> The IETF datatracker status page for this draft is: >> https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-netmod-artwork-folding/ = >>=20 >> There are also htmlized versions available at: >> https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-netmod-artwork-folding-03 >> = https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/html/draft-ietf-netmod-artwork-folding-03= >>=20 >> A diff from the previous version is available at: >> = https://www.ietf.org/rfcdiff?url2=3Ddraft-ietf-netmod-artwork-folding-03 >>=20 >>=20 >> Please note that it may take a couple of minutes from the time of = submission >> until the htmlized version and diff are available at tools.ietf.org. >>=20 >> Internet-Drafts are also available by anonymous FTP at: >> ftp://ftp.ietf.org/internet-drafts/ >>=20 >> _______________________________________________ >> netmod mailing list >> netmod@ietf.org >> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/netmod >=20 > _______________________________________________ > netmod mailing list > netmod@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/netmod --Apple-Mail=_D6CDBBB3-9D84-4B82-BE3D-67ADCAE10FB5 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/html; charset=us-ascii
I just posted an Editorial update that only touches the = non-normative script to add a -q (quiet) flag.  Here's the = diff: https://tools.ietf.org/rfcdiff?url2=3Ddraft-ietf-netmod-artwork= -folding-04.txt.

Separately, = it's been more than two weeks since the below message.   There has = been no comments on #2 below, and so the chairs can more forward with = the publishing request now?

Kent // = author (recused chair)



On May 30, 2019, at 10:41 AM, Kent Watsen = <kent@watsen.net> = wrote:


This update reflects the changes = discussed during the Last Call plus the following additional = changes:

  = 1) s/see if any/ensure at least one/  (EDITORIAL: sounded too = casual before)
  2) s/MUST = NOT precede a space (' ') character/MUST NOT be on = top of a space (' ') character/  (TECHNICAL: see = below)
  3) wrapped the script with <CODE = BEGINS> and <CODE ENDS> (EDITORIAL, per idnits)

Regarding #2, this = change was made after I examined the algorithm more carefully.  It = would be good for others to confirm this rather critical = change.

Thanks,
Kent // contributor



On May = 30, 2019, at 10:30 AM, internet-drafts@ietf.org wrote:


A New Internet-Draft is available from the on-line = Internet-Drafts directories.
This draft is a work item of = the Network Modeling WG of the IETF.

=        Title =           : Handling = Long Lines in Inclusions in Internet-Drafts and RFCs
=        Authors =         : Kent Watsen
=             &n= bsp;           &nbs= p;Adrian Farrel
=             &n= bsp;           &nbs= p;Qin Wu
Filename =        : = draft-ietf-netmod-artwork-folding-03.txt
Pages =           : 25
= Date =            : = 2019-05-30

Abstract:
=   This document defines two strategies for handling long lines = in
  width-bounded text content.  One = strategy is based on the historic
  use of a = single backslash ('\') character to indicate where line-
=   folding has occurred, with the continuation occurring with = the first
  non-space (' ') character on the = next line.  The second strategy
  extends = the first strategy by adding a second backslash character to
  identify where the continuation begins and = thereby able to handle
  cases not supported by = the first strategy.  Both strategies use a
=   self-describing header enabling automated reconstitution of = the
  original content.


The IETF datatracker status page for this = draft is:
https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-netmod-artwork-fold= ing/

There are also htmlized versions = available at:
https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-netmod-artwork-folding-0= 3
https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/html/draft-ietf-netmod-artwork= -folding-03

A diff from the previous = version is available at:
https://www.ietf.org/rfcdiff?url2=3Ddraft-ietf-netmod-artwork-f= olding-03


Please note that = it may take a couple of minutes from the time of submission
until the htmlized version and diff are available at = tools.ietf.org.

Internet-Drafts are also = available by anonymous FTP at:
ftp://ftp.ietf.org/internet-drafts/

_______________________________________________
netmod mailing list
netmod@ietf.org
https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/netmod

_______________________________________________
netmod mailing list
netmod@ietf.org
https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/netmod

= --Apple-Mail=_D6CDBBB3-9D84-4B82-BE3D-67ADCAE10FB5-- From nobody Mon Jun 17 11:16:48 2019 Return-Path: X-Original-To: netmod@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: netmod@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id ECE5412043A for ; Mon, 17 Jun 2019 11:16:46 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.597 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.597 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW=-0.7, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_NONE=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id VtlCBswNBNtu for ; Mon, 17 Jun 2019 11:16:43 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mta7.iomartmail.com (mta7.iomartmail.com [62.128.193.157]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 7B68D120625 for ; Mon, 17 Jun 2019 11:16:40 -0700 (PDT) Received: from vs1.iomartmail.com (vs1.iomartmail.com [10.12.10.121]) by mta7.iomartmail.com (8.14.4/8.14.4) with ESMTP id x5HIGcPk007130; Mon, 17 Jun 2019 19:16:38 +0100 Received: from vs1.iomartmail.com (unknown [127.0.0.1]) by IMSVA (Postfix) with ESMTP id E122B2203B; Mon, 17 Jun 2019 19:16:37 +0100 (BST) Received: from asmtp3.iomartmail.com (unknown [10.12.10.224]) by vs1.iomartmail.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id CBBC12203A; Mon, 17 Jun 2019 19:16:37 +0100 (BST) Received: from LAPTOPK7AS653V (25.129.51.84.dyn.plus.net [84.51.129.25] (may be forged)) (authenticated bits=0) by asmtp3.iomartmail.com (8.14.4/8.14.4) with ESMTP id x5HIGZDK010736 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 bits=256 verify=NO); Mon, 17 Jun 2019 19:16:37 +0100 Reply-To: From: "Adrian Farrel" To: "'Kent Watsen'" , References: <155922665888.22158.34610875303939053@ietfa.amsl.com> <0100016b0930277d-e4cf4cc9-3be1-45c7-9ca1-505ccc8e59ea-000000@email.amazonses.com> <0100016b6685036e-0f341024-b692-42d1-aa0a-9d55cccc5402-000000@email.amazonses.com> In-Reply-To: <0100016b6685036e-0f341024-b692-42d1-aa0a-9d55cccc5402-000000@email.amazonses.com> Date: Mon, 17 Jun 2019 19:16:34 +0100 Organization: Old Dog Consulting Message-ID: <01f401d52538$ccb4e0a0$661ea1e0$@olddog.co.uk> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_01F5_01D52541.2E7B9290" X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook 16.0 Thread-Index: AQGfH+XDlDQC4lKNSSHBhCWukwulEwG0BD6bArRKtTim6OzCsA== Content-Language: en-gb X-Originating-IP: 84.51.129.25 X-Thinkmail-Auth: adrian@olddog.co.uk X-TM-AS-GCONF: 00 X-TM-AS-Product-Ver: IMSVA-9.0.0.1623-8.2.0.1013-24686.001 X-TM-AS-Result: No--18.893-10.0-31-10 X-imss-scan-details: No--18.893-10.0-31-10 X-TMASE-Version: IMSVA-9.0.0.1623-8.2.1013-24686.001 X-TMASE-Result: 10--18.892700-10.000000 X-TMASE-MatchedRID: IeZYkn8zfFpor4mPA3EMtnFPUrVDm6jtekMgTOQbVFscNByoSo036Yst NWRuMmhq/6GBDyCFWvOTYOlgCg1z9wkCvLLkzMhrmL8m0JtKLVNrYRnU37pu2oDpStszePepH6+ rJrS1zY+QLaoaEKRbU5Yu7wYYdZ8/+Va5jU+CLx7C0TXpqtexIkGaUEX8gnR8UQ+YXiZ8bivSPG dGZObyciYxz8zvRVby++4ndMG9RrlkC6HMwfW/fnCO70QAsBdCfglgnB0nDhORoQLwUmtov51dd xkSC3k368qNWtTEEnI+Jck2RObbKvIQ7OhgkzSdTauf2PrRb1sHgh3sKJBzPyBwR3y4lKPEmwOH FxYq8mcweRiYo8gedbf6+/4c5hJ6GIOWW3Xs9vS9NsL2xEmLy+lUxvXGcRIyT0IkL8xYhngZ0+2 buF3T0jdXCbq8PsRj7GlLKb+3caKxHUyB8D2WwznLV1rDXtKlc3ewuwbSaG5s98Z8fG/6kX1Z+Z qpv/nqG1+TaFaL9Yi3JvBH0Duz9CKSpG+tIlC/yZHnIMmQ+DiDGjRALjlFwkamD+dkC4n9NiiXN Oko0Fuar39byU2evL73xG6zBNMfNzxsYb+2pBltJYfOb0q5O8BjKtUA788trosiTWRhP4mSTQRy O1T1cGWH/va7vNnG/DJoA3ehKO+H/OjJ1CEsvDpJFtl6qyQe/jXn2SHUmVzROD3l4Lgc5TlDcJc ynv4c8ro3Cv/OOP3SSTUvZG6oD+ONxC2CfmlbKO2+bS8WGa2S0Ed+8sr8mnQ8D+SLaQjsS1Tj+k qv+huJmZ8FliAav78tQ+d++9tXYff3A5nWjkaeAiCmPx4NwGmRqNBHmBvevqq8s2MNhPDPPeN6H N6d7M+9+OQ9U/5fIAcCikR3vq/YuAOirZOytiDo8jvia9Yba6L6jSWNg58jZBppKB5kIz+O8vM9 sPap X-TMASE-SNAP-Result: 1.821001.0001-0-1-12:0,22:0,33:0,34:0-0 Archived-At: Subject: Re: [netmod] I-D Action: draft-ietf-netmod-artwork-folding-03.txt X-BeenThere: netmod@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: NETMOD WG list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 17 Jun 2019 18:16:47 -0000 This is a multipart message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_01F5_01D52541.2E7B9290 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Kent, Thanks for the work. I had a clear understanding of what "precede a space" means. I struggle to understand what "on top of" means in a stream of characters. I wondered whether you were referring to vertical placement on the page (the text is talking about columns), but that seems crazy! Do you mean that the fold must not be occupied by a space character? I think the question is whether it is easier to describe a fold happening between characters or at a character slot. The original text used the "between characters" approach. If you prefer to say you fold at a column, that's fine, but probably "on top of" isn't as clear as "the column at which we fold must not contain a space". Best, Adrian From: netmod On Behalf Of Kent Watsen Sent: 17 June 2019 18:39 To: netmod@ietf.org Subject: Re: [netmod] I-D Action: draft-ietf-netmod-artwork-folding-03.txt I just posted an Editorial update that only touches the non-normative script to add a -q (quiet) flag. Here's the diff: https://tools.ietf.org/rfcdiff?url2=draft-ietf-netmod-artwork-folding-04.txt . Separately, it's been more than two weeks since the below message. There has been no comments on #2 below, and so the chairs can more forward with the publishing request now? Kent // author (recused chair) On May 30, 2019, at 10:41 AM, Kent Watsen > wrote: This update reflects the changes discussed during the Last Call plus the following additional changes: 1) s/see if any/ensure at least one/ (EDITORIAL: sounded too casual before) 2) s/MUST NOT precede a space (' ') character/MUST NOT be on top of a space (' ') character/ (TECHNICAL: see below) 3) wrapped the script with and (EDITORIAL, per idnits) Regarding #2, this change was made after I examined the algorithm more carefully. It would be good for others to confirm this rather critical change. Thanks, Kent // contributor On May 30, 2019, at 10:30 AM, internet-drafts@ietf.org wrote: A New Internet-Draft is available from the on-line Internet-Drafts directories. This draft is a work item of the Network Modeling WG of the IETF. Title : Handling Long Lines in Inclusions in Internet-Drafts and RFCs Authors : Kent Watsen Adrian Farrel Qin Wu Filename : draft-ietf-netmod-artwork-folding-03.txt Pages : 25 Date : 2019-05-30 Abstract: This document defines two strategies for handling long lines in width-bounded text content. One strategy is based on the historic use of a single backslash ('\') character to indicate where line- folding has occurred, with the continuation occurring with the first non-space (' ') character on the next line. The second strategy extends the first strategy by adding a second backslash character to identify where the continuation begins and thereby able to handle cases not supported by the first strategy. Both strategies use a self-describing header enabling automated reconstitution of the original content. The IETF datatracker status page for this draft is: https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-netmod-artwork-folding/ There are also htmlized versions available at: https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-netmod-artwork-folding-03 https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/html/draft-ietf-netmod-artwork-folding-03 A diff from the previous version is available at: https://www.ietf.org/rfcdiff?url2=draft-ietf-netmod-artwork-folding-03 Please note that it may take a couple of minutes from the time of submission until the htmlized version and diff are available at tools.ietf.org. Internet-Drafts are also available by anonymous FTP at: ftp://ftp.ietf.org/internet-drafts/ _______________________________________________ netmod mailing list netmod@ietf.org https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/netmod _______________________________________________ netmod mailing list netmod@ietf.org https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/netmod ------=_NextPart_000_01F5_01D52541.2E7B9290 Content-Type: text/html; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

Kent,

Thanks for = the work.

 

I had a = clear understanding of what “precede a space” = means.

I struggle to understand what = “on top of” means in a stream of characters. I wondered = whether you were referring to vertical placement on the page (the text = is talking about columns), but that seems crazy!

Do you mean = that the fold must not be occupied by a space = character?

I think the question is whether it = is easier to describe a fold happening between characters or at a = character slot.

The original text used the = “between characters” approach. If you prefer to say you fold = at a column, that’s fine, but probably “on top of” = isn’t as clear as “the column at which we fold must not = contain a space”.

 

Best,

Adrian

 

 

From: netmod = <netmod-bounces@ietf.org> On Behalf Of Kent = Watsen
Sent: 17 June 2019 18:39
To: = netmod@ietf.org
Subject: Re: [netmod] I-D Action: = draft-ietf-netmod-artwork-folding-03.txt

 

 

I just = posted an Editorial update that only touches the non-normative script to = add a -q (quiet) flag.  Here's the diff: https://tools.ietf.org/rfcdiff?url2=3Ddraft-ietf-netmod-ar= twork-folding-04.txt.

 

Separately, it's been more than two weeks since the = below message.   There has been no comments on #2 below, and so the = chairs can more forward with the publishing request = now?

 

Kent // author (recused = chair)

 

 



On May 30, 2019, at 10:41 AM, Kent Watsen <kent@watsen.net> = wrote:

 

 

This update reflects the changes discussed during the = Last Call plus the following additional = changes:

 

  1) s/see if any/ensure at least one/ =  (EDITORIAL: sounded too casual before)

  2) s/MUST NOT precede a space (' = ') character/MUST NOT be on top of a space (' ') character/ =  (TECHNICAL: see below)

  3) wrapped the script with <CODE BEGINS> = and <CODE ENDS> (EDITORIAL, per = idnits)

 

Regarding #2, this change was made after I examined = the algorithm more carefully.  It would be good for others to = confirm this rather critical change.

 

Thanks,

Kent // contributor

 

 



On May 30, 2019, at 10:30 AM, internet-drafts@ietf.org = wrote:

 


A New Internet-Draft is available from the on-line = Internet-Drafts directories.
This draft is a work item of the Network = Modeling WG of the = IETF.

       Title =           : Handling = Long Lines in Inclusions in Internet-Drafts and = RFCs
       Authors =         : Kent = Watsen
          &nb= sp;           &nbs= p;  Adrian = Farrel
          &nb= sp;           &nbs= p;  Qin Wu
   = Filename        : = draft-ietf-netmod-artwork-folding-03.txt
       Pages =           : = 25
       = Date =            : = 2019-05-30

Abstract:
  This document defines two = strategies for handling long lines in
  width-bounded text = content.  One strategy is based on the historic
  use = of a single backslash ('\') character to indicate where = line-
  folding has occurred, with the continuation = occurring with the first
  non-space (' ') character on the = next line.  The second strategy
  extends the first = strategy by adding a second backslash character = to
  identify where the continuation begins and thereby = able to handle
  cases not supported by the first strategy. =  Both strategies use a
  self-describing header = enabling automated reconstitution of the
  original = content.


The IETF datatracker status page for this draft = is:
https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-netmod-artwork-folding/

There are also htmlized versions available at:
https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-netmod-artwork-folding-03
= https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/html/draft-ietf-netmod-artwor= k-folding-03

A diff from the previous version is available = at:
https://www.ietf.org/rfcdiff?url2=3Ddraft-ietf-netmod-artwork-fo= lding-03


Please note that it may take a couple of minutes = from the time of submission
until the htmlized version and diff are = available at tools.ietf.org.

Internet-Drafts are also available = by anonymous FTP at:
ftp://ftp.ietf.org/internet-= drafts/

_______________________________________________
net= mod mailing list
netmod@ietf.org
https://www.ietf.or= g/mailman/listinfo/netmod

 

_______________________________________________
netm= od mailing list
netmod@ietf.org
https://www.ietf.or= g/mailman/listinfo/netmod

 

------=_NextPart_000_01F5_01D52541.2E7B9290-- From nobody Mon Jun 17 11:53:25 2019 Return-Path: <0100016b66c9568a-74256db2-9b9d-45da-99a9-ff4116293e2c-000000@amazonses.watsen.net> X-Original-To: netmod@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: netmod@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8E83C12003E for ; Mon, 17 Jun 2019 11:53:23 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.897 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.897 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_NONE=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (1024-bit key) header.d=amazonses.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id sujZeHzrJRVg for ; Mon, 17 Jun 2019 11:53:21 -0700 (PDT) Received: from a8-33.smtp-out.amazonses.com (a8-33.smtp-out.amazonses.com [54.240.8.33]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id B513B12018F for ; Mon, 17 Jun 2019 11:53:20 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; q=dns/txt; c=relaxed/simple; s=6gbrjpgwjskckoa6a5zn6fwqkn67xbtw; d=amazonses.com; t=1560797599; h=From:Message-Id:Content-Type:Mime-Version:Subject:Date:In-Reply-To:Cc:To:References:Feedback-ID; bh=wxpMlcS/xNW0YTox1TI5iNwpY07Xf4r64irfFTp/rXw=; b=KdcE1K25MoomhMekpytciHEBaasYRl5huQ0zSRTPFGKyY5PwFLo6PHDrevvYvFXt HLriPjon58oADyVbQMlCn6Q/Eh9a7euqVFQc4oPaSIz1WixNMHvWWrRwUB+Disvzlac wTYgww2utrypiilzQLJVXmO8Ojekuj8a/SBAj4OE= From: Kent Watsen Message-ID: <0100016b66c9568a-74256db2-9b9d-45da-99a9-ff4116293e2c-000000@email.amazonses.com> Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="Apple-Mail=_2BDA6B3D-F22D-40D8-8485-50820BB21A92" Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 12.4 \(3445.104.11\)) Date: Mon, 17 Jun 2019 18:53:19 +0000 In-Reply-To: <01f401d52538$ccb4e0a0$661ea1e0$@olddog.co.uk> Cc: "netmod@ietf.org" To: Adrian Farrel References: <155922665888.22158.34610875303939053@ietfa.amsl.com> <0100016b0930277d-e4cf4cc9-3be1-45c7-9ca1-505ccc8e59ea-000000@email.amazonses.com> <0100016b6685036e-0f341024-b692-42d1-aa0a-9d55cccc5402-000000@email.amazonses.com> <01f401d52538$ccb4e0a0$661ea1e0$@olddog.co.uk> X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.3445.104.11) X-SES-Outgoing: 2019.06.17-54.240.8.33 Feedback-ID: 1.us-east-1.DKmIRZFhhsBhtmFMNikgwZUWVrODEw9qVcPhqJEI2DA=:AmazonSES Archived-At: Subject: Re: [netmod] I-D Action: draft-ietf-netmod-artwork-folding-03.txt X-BeenThere: netmod@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: NETMOD WG list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 17 Jun 2019 18:53:24 -0000 --Apple-Mail=_2BDA6B3D-F22D-40D8-8485-50820BB21A92 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Hi Adrian, Text suggestions welcomed. =20 What needs to be expressed is that a space character cannot occupy the = column where the end-of-line '\' is to placed, as doing so would push = that space character to the beginning of the next line, which the = unfolding logic would subsequently delete, thinking that it was part of = a user-placed "indent". Makes sense? Kent > On Jun 17, 2019, at 2:16 PM, Adrian Farrel = wrote: >=20 > Kent,=20 > Thanks for the work. > =20 > I had a clear understanding of what =E2=80=9Cprecede a space=E2=80=9D = means. > I struggle to understand what =E2=80=9Con top of=E2=80=9D means in a = stream of characters. I wondered whether you were referring to vertical = placement on the page (the text is talking about columns), but that = seems crazy! > Do you mean that the fold must not be occupied by a space character? > I think the question is whether it is easier to describe a fold = happening between characters or at a character slot. > The original text used the =E2=80=9Cbetween characters=E2=80=9D = approach. If you prefer to say you fold at a column, that=E2=80=99s = fine, but probably =E2=80=9Con top of=E2=80=9D isn=E2=80=99t as clear as = =E2=80=9Cthe column at which we fold must not contain a space=E2=80=9D. > =20 > Best, > Adrian > =20 > =20 > From: netmod On Behalf Of Kent Watsen > Sent: 17 June 2019 18:39 > To: netmod@ietf.org > Subject: Re: [netmod] I-D Action: = draft-ietf-netmod-artwork-folding-03.txt > =20 > =20 > I just posted an Editorial update that only touches the non-normative = script to add a -q (quiet) flag. Here's the diff: = https://tools.ietf.org/rfcdiff?url2=3Ddraft-ietf-netmod-artwork-folding-04= .txt = . > =20 > Separately, it's been more than two weeks since the below message. = There has been no comments on #2 below, and so the chairs can more = forward with the publishing request now? > =20 > Kent // author (recused chair) > =20 > =20 >=20 >=20 >> On May 30, 2019, at 10:41 AM, Kent Watsen > wrote: >> =20 >> =20 >> This update reflects the changes discussed during the Last Call plus = the following additional changes: >> =20 >> 1) s/see if any/ensure at least one/ (EDITORIAL: sounded too = casual before) >> 2) s/MUST NOT precede a space (' ') character/MUST NOT be on top of = a space (' ') character/ (TECHNICAL: see below) >> 3) wrapped the script with and = (EDITORIAL, per idnits) >> =20 >> Regarding #2, this change was made after I examined the algorithm = more carefully. It would be good for others to confirm this rather = critical change. >> =20 >> Thanks, >> Kent // contributor >> =20 >> =20 >>=20 >>=20 >>> On May 30, 2019, at 10:30 AM, internet-drafts@ietf.org = wrote: >>> =20 >>>=20 >>> A New Internet-Draft is available from the on-line Internet-Drafts = directories. >>> This draft is a work item of the Network Modeling WG of the IETF. >>>=20 >>> Title : Handling Long Lines in Inclusions in = Internet-Drafts and RFCs >>> Authors : Kent Watsen >>> Adrian Farrel >>> Qin Wu >>> Filename : draft-ietf-netmod-artwork-folding-03.txt >>> Pages : 25 >>> Date : 2019-05-30 >>>=20 >>> Abstract: >>> This document defines two strategies for handling long lines in >>> width-bounded text content. One strategy is based on the historic >>> use of a single backslash ('\') character to indicate where line- >>> folding has occurred, with the continuation occurring with the = first >>> non-space (' ') character on the next line. The second strategy >>> extends the first strategy by adding a second backslash character = to >>> identify where the continuation begins and thereby able to handle >>> cases not supported by the first strategy. Both strategies use a >>> self-describing header enabling automated reconstitution of the >>> original content. >>>=20 >>>=20 >>> The IETF datatracker status page for this draft is: >>> https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-netmod-artwork-folding/ = >>>=20 >>> There are also htmlized versions available at: >>> https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-netmod-artwork-folding-03 = >>> = https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/html/draft-ietf-netmod-artwork-folding-03= = >>>=20 >>> A diff from the previous version is available at: >>> = https://www.ietf.org/rfcdiff?url2=3Ddraft-ietf-netmod-artwork-folding-03 = = >>>=20 >>>=20 >>> Please note that it may take a couple of minutes from the time of = submission >>> until the htmlized version and diff are available at tools.ietf.org. >>>=20 >>> Internet-Drafts are also available by anonymous FTP at: >>> ftp://ftp.ietf.org/internet-drafts/ = >>>=20 >>> _______________________________________________ >>> netmod mailing list >>> netmod@ietf.org >>> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/netmod = >> =20 >> _______________________________________________ >> netmod mailing list >> netmod@ietf.org >> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/netmod = --Apple-Mail=_2BDA6B3D-F22D-40D8-8485-50820BB21A92 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/html; charset=utf-8 Hi = Adrian,

Text = suggestions welcomed.   

What needs to be expressed is that a = space character cannot occupy the column where the end-of-line '\' is to = placed, as doing so would push that space character to the beginning of = the next line, which the unfolding logic would subsequently delete, = thinking that it was part of a user-placed "indent".  Makes = sense?

Kent


On Jun = 17, 2019, at 2:16 PM, Adrian Farrel <adrian@olddog.co.uk>= wrote:

Kent, 
Thanks for the work.
 
I had a clear understanding of what = =E2=80=9Cprecede a space=E2=80=9D means.
I struggle to understand what =E2=80=9Con top of=E2=80=9D = means in a stream of characters. I wondered whether you were referring = to vertical placement on the page (the text is talking about columns), = but that seems crazy!
Do you mean that the = fold must not be occupied by a space character?
I think the question is whether it is easier to describe a = fold happening between characters or at a character slot.
The original text used the =E2=80=9Cbetween characters=E2=80=9D= approach. If you prefer to say you fold at a column, that=E2=80=99s = fine, but probably =E2=80=9Con top of=E2=80=9D isn=E2=80=99t as clear as = =E2=80=9Cthe column at which we fold must not contain a space=E2=80=9D.
 
Best,
Adrian
 
 
From: netmod <netmod-bounces@ietf.org> On Behalf = Of Kent Watsen
Sent: 17 June 2019 18:39
To: netmod@ietf.org
Subject: Re: [netmod] I-D Action: = draft-ietf-netmod-artwork-folding-03.txt
 
 
I just posted an Editorial update that = only touches the non-normative script to add a -q (quiet) flag. =  Here's the diff: https://tools.ietf.org/rfcdiff?url2=3Ddraft-ietf-netmod-artwork= -folding-04.txt.
 
Separately, it's been more than two weeks since the below = message.   There has been no comments on #2 below, and so the = chairs can more forward with the publishing request now?
 
Kent // author (recused chair)
 
 


On May 30, 2019, at 10:41 AM, Kent = Watsen <kent@watsen.net> = wrote:
 
 
This update reflects the changes discussed during the Last = Call plus the following additional changes:
 
  1) s/see if any/ensure at least = one/  (EDITORIAL: sounded too casual before)
  2) s/MUST NOT precede a space (' ') = character/MUST NOT be on top of a space (' ') character/ =  (TECHNICAL: see below)
  3) wrapped the = script with <CODE BEGINS> and <CODE ENDS> (EDITORIAL, = per idnits)
 
Regarding #2, this change was made after I examined the = algorithm more carefully.  It would be good for others to confirm = this rather critical change.
 
Thanks,
Kent // contributor
 
 


On May 30, 2019, at 10:30 AM, internet-drafts@ietf.org wrote:
 

A New Internet-Draft is = available from the on-line Internet-Drafts directories.
This= draft is a work item of the Network Modeling WG of the IETF.

       Title =           : Handling = Long Lines in Inclusions in Internet-Drafts and RFCs
       Authors =         : Kent Watsen
          &nb= sp;            = ;  Adrian Farrel
          &nb= sp;            = ;  Qin Wu
   Filename =        : = draft-ietf-netmod-artwork-folding-03.txt
       Pages =           : 25
       Date =            : = 2019-05-30

Abstract:
  This document defines two strategies for handling = long lines in
  width-bounded text content. =  One strategy is based on the historic
  use = of a single backslash ('\') character to indicate where line-
  folding has occurred, with the continuation = occurring with the first
  non-space (' ') = character on the next line.  The second strategy
  extends the first strategy by adding a second = backslash character to
  identify where the = continuation begins and thereby able to handle
  cases not supported by the first strategy. =  Both strategies use a
  self-describing = header enabling automated reconstitution of the
  original content.


The IETF datatracker status page for this draft is:
https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-netmod-artwork-fold= ing/

There are also htmlized versions = available at:
https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-netmod-artwork-folding-0= 3
https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/html/draft-ietf-netmod-artwork= -folding-03

A diff from the previous = version is available at:
https://www.ietf.org/rfcdiff?url2=3Ddraft-ietf-netmod-artwork-f= olding-03


Please note = that it may take a couple of minutes from the time of submission
until the htmlized version and diff are available at tools.ietf.org.

Internet-Drafts are also available by = anonymous FTP at:
ftp://ftp.ietf.org/internet-drafts/

_______________________________________________
netmod mailing list
netmod@ietf.org
https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/netmod
 
_______________________________________________
netmod mailing list
netmod@ietf.org
https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/netmod

= --Apple-Mail=_2BDA6B3D-F22D-40D8-8485-50820BB21A92-- From nobody Mon Jun 17 13:53:54 2019 Return-Path: X-Original-To: netmod@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: netmod@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 425361206E1 for ; Mon, 17 Jun 2019 13:53:52 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.597 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.597 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW=-0.7, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_NONE=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id bPTNJ57hcDEL for ; Mon, 17 Jun 2019 13:53:48 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mta8.iomartmail.com (mta8.iomartmail.com [62.128.193.158]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 32C751206DF for ; Mon, 17 Jun 2019 13:53:36 -0700 (PDT) Received: from vs1.iomartmail.com (vs1.iomartmail.com [10.12.10.121]) by mta8.iomartmail.com (8.14.4/8.14.4) with ESMTP id x5HKrYmM031757; Mon, 17 Jun 2019 21:53:34 +0100 Received: from vs1.iomartmail.com (unknown [127.0.0.1]) by IMSVA (Postfix) with ESMTP id 701772203B; Mon, 17 Jun 2019 21:53:34 +0100 (BST) Received: from asmtp3.iomartmail.com (unknown [10.12.10.224]) by vs1.iomartmail.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 5AAE62203A; Mon, 17 Jun 2019 21:53:34 +0100 (BST) Received: from LAPTOPK7AS653V (25.129.51.84.dyn.plus.net [84.51.129.25] (may be forged)) (authenticated bits=0) by asmtp3.iomartmail.com (8.14.4/8.14.4) with ESMTP id x5HKrWfO030355 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 bits=256 verify=NO); Mon, 17 Jun 2019 21:53:33 +0100 Reply-To: From: "Adrian Farrel" To: "'Kent Watsen'" Cc: References: <155922665888.22158.34610875303939053@ietfa.amsl.com> <0100016b0930277d-e4cf4cc9-3be1-45c7-9ca1-505ccc8e59ea-000000@email.amazonses.com> <0100016b6685036e-0f341024-b692-42d1-aa0a-9d55cccc5402-000000@email.amazonses.com> <01f401d52538$ccb4e0a0$661ea1e0$@olddog.co.uk> <0100016b66c9568a-74256db2-9b9d-45da-99a9-ff4116293e2c-000000@email.amazonses.com> In-Reply-To: <0100016b66c9568a-74256db2-9b9d-45da-99a9-ff4116293e2c-000000@email.amazonses.com> Date: Mon, 17 Jun 2019 21:53:31 +0100 Organization: Old Dog Consulting Message-ID: <021101d5254e$b9802ec0$2c808c40$@olddog.co.uk> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0212_01D52557.1B461D60" X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook 16.0 Thread-Index: AQGfH+XDlDQC4lKNSSHBhCWukwulEwG0BD6bArRKtTgBRHTfeAIBEd5Hps7tPGA= Content-Language: en-gb X-Originating-IP: 84.51.129.25 X-Thinkmail-Auth: adrian@olddog.co.uk X-TM-AS-GCONF: 00 X-TM-AS-Product-Ver: IMSVA-9.0.0.1623-8.2.0.1013-24686.001 X-TM-AS-Result: No--19.299-10.0-31-10 X-imss-scan-details: No--19.299-10.0-31-10 X-TMASE-Version: IMSVA-9.0.0.1623-8.2.1013-24686.001 X-TMASE-Result: 10--19.299500-10.000000 X-TMASE-MatchedRID: Z/tjqhsgM6c7iuZ/mdYYtvPom+PRQD1/eVfJkJu97fTN25nZ2p7B7S4k rlw9EMr90WPjwvBymOUUmR8f4HPVzuv6L5uWBkxpJ2ZQ5u87lZl5bBiV7e/VjAKL4BUqBzvS3Is W8GtAmI9jBcCC3w+2IFqgyyHRhMBSAveunI5PTNi6Gxh0eXo7axGAou/AcMSIqsyhMt9RsWK4f9 3mHW3ZqqiySyvhc1tSutvHF25zoU8uAm3+nk3vKU9CJC/MWIZ4rZLAiMblSRGcoIHjPJYxCO//p rISz9EWCQK8suTMyGuYvybQm0otU2thGdTfum7agOlK2zN496mQgO5cTqSFVhsguN4Prv59BLvB 7dV9JZDpFBczyHpQrnCO70QAsBdCfglgnB0nDhORoQLwUmtov51ddxkSC3k368qNWtTEEnI+Jck 2RObbKmwxXIAB2+stTauf2PrRb1sHgh3sKJBzPyBwR3y4lKPEmwOHFxYq8mcweRiYo8gedbf6+/ 4c5hJ6GIOWW3Xs9vS9NsL2xEmLy0Yj0zDHPzJpu6qThyrnanPrmZEozMcOf0crGCwEg/izM65OD 4mt/+f/o+5l9ZSgvjKVTrGMDe/Db4EbH+L/ZAhsnR1RUJec9DCWp18HPoW89zhdFI0Bq7phX1Xn 5qIIOdwkpT7HHqpeTvKpZzlxUs/PFq5A6gp9a6ANamSpMq+hQbNTsIpfWx3p/p6JwbnRc9UNXIp K0p5G9ran5gMy09QHK0IhbYfex1TwUMN+zeHgzVgwP7ZMYf8+Zexv5dHAKi6lHYgBZ/STWkFwmQ DHvRoeWdHNBdxmTYicBKfMHlV8mHAp2UJ8+TxHQgtCTJ1arKPFjJEFr+ol6AvlZUR4Tsiypq0eC 3FVtj/cZn50ezHqi2QFaYS1v22rEHfaj14ZyavKuh6OVsUdZtW2q62OVqEqt8GbQcj8Kfx0xqK8 kWDTI9z8VwbJxkE= X-TMASE-SNAP-Result: 1.821001.0001-0-1-12:0,22:0,33:0,34:0-0 Archived-At: Subject: Re: [netmod] I-D Action: draft-ietf-netmod-artwork-folding-03.txt X-BeenThere: netmod@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: NETMOD WG list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 17 Jun 2019 20:53:52 -0000 This is a multipart message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0212_01D52557.1B461D60 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable OK, we=E2=80=99re agreed on what we want to achieve, just not on the = wording to describe it =F0=9F=98=8A =20 How about=E2=80=A6 =20 1. Determine where the fold will occur. This location MUST be before or at the desired maximum column, and MUST NOT be chosen such that the character immediately after the fold is a space (' ') character. If no such location can be found, then exit (this text content cannot be folded) =20 Best, Adrian =20 From: Kent Watsen =20 Sent: 17 June 2019 19:53 To: Adrian Farrel Cc: netmod@ietf.org Subject: Re: [netmod] I-D Action: = draft-ietf-netmod-artwork-folding-03.txt =20 Hi Adrian, =20 Text suggestions welcomed. =20 =20 What needs to be expressed is that a space character cannot occupy the = column where the end-of-line '\' is to placed, as doing so would push = that space character to the beginning of the next line, which the = unfolding logic would subsequently delete, thinking that it was part of = a user-placed "indent". Makes sense? =20 Kent =20 On Jun 17, 2019, at 2:16 PM, Adrian Farrel > wrote: =20 Kent,=20 Thanks for the work. =20 I had a clear understanding of what =E2=80=9Cprecede a space=E2=80=9D = means. I struggle to understand what =E2=80=9Con top of=E2=80=9D means in a = stream of characters. I wondered whether you were referring to vertical = placement on the page (the text is talking about columns), but that = seems crazy! Do you mean that the fold must not be occupied by a space character? I think the question is whether it is easier to describe a fold = happening between characters or at a character slot. The original text used the =E2=80=9Cbetween characters=E2=80=9D = approach. If you prefer to say you fold at a column, that=E2=80=99s = fine, but probably =E2=80=9Con top of=E2=80=9D isn=E2=80=99t as clear as = =E2=80=9Cthe column at which we fold must not contain a space=E2=80=9D. =20 Best, Adrian =20 =20 From: netmod > = On Behalf Of Kent Watsen Sent: 17 June 2019 18:39 To: netmod@ietf.org =20 Subject: Re: [netmod] I-D Action: = draft-ietf-netmod-artwork-folding-03.txt =20 =20 I just posted an Editorial update that only touches the non-normative = script to add a -q (quiet) flag. Here's the diff: = = https://tools.ietf.org/rfcdiff?url2=3Ddraft-ietf-netmod-artwork-folding-0= 4.txt. =20 Separately, it's been more than two weeks since the below message. = There has been no comments on #2 below, and so the chairs can more = forward with the publishing request now? =20 Kent // author (recused chair) =20 =20 On May 30, 2019, at 10:41 AM, Kent Watsen < = kent@watsen.net> wrote: =20 =20 This update reflects the changes discussed during the Last Call plus the = following additional changes: =20 1) s/see if any/ensure at least one/ (EDITORIAL: sounded too casual = before) 2) s/MUST NOT precede a space (' ') character/MUST NOT be on top of a = space (' ') character/ (TECHNICAL: see below) 3) wrapped the script with and (EDITORIAL, = per idnits) =20 Regarding #2, this change was made after I examined the algorithm more = carefully. It would be good for others to confirm this rather critical = change. =20 Thanks, Kent // contributor =20 =20 On May 30, 2019, at 10:30 AM, = internet-drafts@ietf.org wrote: =20 A New Internet-Draft is available from the on-line Internet-Drafts = directories. This draft is a work item of the Network Modeling WG of the IETF. Title : Handling Long Lines in Inclusions in = Internet-Drafts and RFCs Authors : Kent Watsen Adrian Farrel Qin Wu Filename : draft-ietf-netmod-artwork-folding-03.txt Pages : 25 Date : 2019-05-30 Abstract: This document defines two strategies for handling long lines in width-bounded text content. One strategy is based on the historic use of a single backslash ('\') character to indicate where line- folding has occurred, with the continuation occurring with the first non-space (' ') character on the next line. The second strategy extends the first strategy by adding a second backslash character to identify where the continuation begins and thereby able to handle cases not supported by the first strategy. Both strategies use a self-describing header enabling automated reconstitution of the original content. The IETF datatracker status page for this draft is: = https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-netmod-artwork-folding/ There are also htmlized versions available at: = https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-netmod-artwork-folding-03 = = https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/html/draft-ietf-netmod-artwork-folding-0= 3 A diff from the previous version is available at: = = https://www.ietf.org/rfcdiff?url2=3Ddraft-ietf-netmod-artwork-folding-03 Please note that it may take a couple of minutes from the time of = submission until the htmlized version and diff are available at tools.ietf.org = . Internet-Drafts are also available by anonymous FTP at: = ftp://ftp.ietf.org/internet-drafts/ _______________________________________________ netmod mailing list netmod@ietf.org = https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/netmod =20 _______________________________________________ netmod mailing list netmod@ietf.org = https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/netmod =20 ------=_NextPart_000_0212_01D52557.1B461D60 Content-Type: text/html; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

OK, we=E2=80=99re agreed on what we = want to achieve, just not on the wording to describe it 😊

 

How = about=E2=80=A6

 

=C2=A0=C2=A0 1.=C2=A0 Determine = where the fold will occur.=C2=A0 This location MUST = be

=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0= before or at the desired maximum column, and MUST NOT be = chosen

=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 = =C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0such that the character immediately after the fold is = a space

=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0= (' ') character.=C2=A0 If no such location can be found, then = exit

=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0= (this text content cannot be folded)

 

Best,

Adrian

 

From: Kent Watsen = <kent+ietf@watsen.net>
Sent: 17 June 2019 = 19:53
To: Adrian Farrel = <adrian@olddog.co.uk>
Cc: = netmod@ietf.org
Subject: Re: [netmod] I-D Action: = draft-ietf-netmod-artwork-folding-03.txt

 

Hi = Adrian,

 

Text suggestions welcomed. =   

 

What needs to be expressed is that a space character = cannot occupy the column where the end-of-line '\' is to placed, as = doing so would push that space character to the beginning of the next = line, which the unfolding logic would subsequently delete, thinking that = it was part of a user-placed "indent".  Makes = sense?

 

Kent

 



On Jun 17, 2019, at 2:16 PM, Adrian Farrel <adrian@olddog.co.uk> = wrote:

 

Kent, 

Thanks for the work.

 

I = had a clear understanding of what =E2=80=9Cprecede a space=E2=80=9D = means.

I struggle to = understand what =E2=80=9Con top of=E2=80=9D means in a stream of = characters. I wondered whether you were referring to vertical placement = on the page (the text is talking about columns), but that seems = crazy!

Do you mean that = the fold must not be occupied by a space = character?

I think the = question is whether it is easier to describe a fold happening between = characters or at a character slot.

The original text used the =E2=80=9Cbetween = characters=E2=80=9D approach. If you prefer to say you fold at a column, = that=E2=80=99s fine, but probably =E2=80=9Con top of=E2=80=9D = isn=E2=80=99t as clear as =E2=80=9Cthe column at which we fold must not = contain a space=E2=80=9D.

 

Best,

Adrian

 

 

From: netmod <netmod-bounces@ietf.org> On Behalf Of Kent = Watsen
Sent: 17 June 2019 = 18:39
To: netmod@ietf.org
Subject: Re: [netmod] I-D Action: = draft-ietf-netmod-artwork-folding-03.txt

 

 

I just posted an Editorial update that only touches = the non-normative script to add a -q (quiet) flag.  Here's the = diff: https://tools.ietf.org/rfcdiff?url2=3Ddraft-ietf-n= etmod-artwork-folding-04.txt.

<= div>

 

Separately, it's been more than two weeks since the = below message.   There has been no comments on #2 below, and so the = chairs can more forward with the publishing request = now?

 

Kent // author (recused = chair)

 

 




On May 30, 2019, at 10:41 AM, Kent Watsen <kent@watsen.net> = wrote:

 

 

This update reflects the changes discussed during the = Last Call plus the following additional = changes:

 

  1) s/see if any/ensure at least one/ =  (EDITORIAL: sounded too casual = before)

  = 2) s/MUST NOT precede a space (' ') character/MUST = NOT be on top of a space (' ') character/  (TECHNICAL: = see below)

  3) wrapped the script with <CODE BEGINS> = and <CODE ENDS> (EDITORIAL, per = idnits)

 

Regarding #2, this change was made after I examined = the algorithm more carefully.  It would be good for others to = confirm this rather critical = change.

 

Thanks,

Kent // = contributor

 

 




On May 30, 2019, at 10:30 AM, internet-drafts@ietf.org wrote:

 


A New Internet-Draft is available from the on-line = Internet-Drafts directories.
This draft is a work item of the Network = Modeling WG of the = IETF.

       Title =           : Handling = Long Lines in Inclusions in Internet-Drafts and = RFCs
       Authors =         : Kent = Watsen
          &nb= sp;           &nbs= p;  Adrian = Farrel
          &nb= sp;           &nbs= p;  Qin Wu
   Filename =        : = draft-ietf-netmod-artwork-folding-03.txt
       Pages =           : = 25
       Date =            : = 2019-05-30

Abstract:
  This document defines two = strategies for handling long lines in
  width-bounded text = content.  One strategy is based on the historic
  use = of a single backslash ('\') character to indicate where = line-
  folding has occurred, with the continuation = occurring with the first
  non-space (' ') character on the = next line.  The second strategy
  extends the first = strategy by adding a second backslash character = to
  identify where the continuation begins and thereby = able to handle
  cases not supported by the first strategy. =  Both strategies use a
  self-describing header = enabling automated reconstitution of the
  original = content.


The IETF datatracker status page for this draft = is:
https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-netmod= -artwork-folding/

There are also htmlized versions = available at:
https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-netmod-artw= ork-folding-03
https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/html/draft-ietf-n= etmod-artwork-folding-03

A diff from the previous = version is available at:
https://www.ietf.org/rfcdiff?url2=3Ddraft-ietf-net= mod-artwork-folding-03


Please note that it may = take a couple of minutes from the time of submission
until the = htmlized version and diff are available at tools.ietf.org.

Internet-Drafts= are also available by anonymous FTP at:
ftp://ftp.ietf.org/internet-drafts/
=
_______________________________________________
netmod mailing = list
netmod@ietf.org
https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/netmod

 

_______________________________________________
netm= od mailing list
netmod@ietf.org
https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/netmod

 

------=_NextPart_000_0212_01D52557.1B461D60-- From nobody Tue Jun 18 10:24:24 2019 Return-Path: X-Original-To: netmod@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: netmod@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id BE06A120091; Tue, 18 Jun 2019 10:24:15 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -4.2 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-4.2 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-2.3, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id rKZe2zNGv81h; Tue, 18 Jun 2019 10:24:13 -0700 (PDT) Received: from huawei.com (lhrrgout.huawei.com [185.176.76.210]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 9011C12006E; Tue, 18 Jun 2019 10:24:13 -0700 (PDT) Received: from lhreml701-cah.china.huawei.com (unknown [172.18.7.108]) by Forcepoint Email with ESMTP id 7CC09FE25A2207D21960; Tue, 18 Jun 2019 18:24:11 +0100 (IST) Received: from LHREML504-MBS.china.huawei.com ([10.201.109.59]) by lhreml701-cah.china.huawei.com ([10.201.108.42]) with mapi id 14.03.0415.000; Tue, 18 Jun 2019 18:24:03 +0100 From: Italo Busi To: Juergen Schoenwaelder CC: Andy Bierman , "teas@ietf.org" , "Tarek Saad" , "netmod@ietf.org" Thread-Topic: [netmod] [Teas] Key collision between configured and ephemeral list entries Thread-Index: AQHVIGv3uNMq5vuvr0+PtfoTsE5mlKaWijaAgAAB7wCAABg74P///YkAgAASdtCAAAMxAIAK8ZbA Date: Tue, 18 Jun 2019 17:24:02 +0000 Message-ID: <91E3A1BD737FDF4FA14118387FF6766B27769528@lhreml504-mbs> References: <91E3A1BD737FDF4FA14118387FF6766B2774E51F@lhreml504-mbs> <028b01d51933$1015fa80$4001a8c0@gateway.2wire.net> <91E3A1BD737FDF4FA14118387FF6766B2775CF49@lhreml504-mbs> <20190611160106.5o3pslwmnhaoyjzx@anna.jacobs.jacobs-university.de> <91E3A1BD737FDF4FA14118387FF6766B2775D052@lhreml504-mbs> <20190611171900.xzzwofx5nwtj77cv@anna.jacobs.jacobs-university.de> <91E3A1BD737FDF4FA14118387FF6766B2775D16D@lhreml504-mbs> <20190611183630.4ymx7libdotuqfbo@anna.jacobs.jacobs-university.de> In-Reply-To: <20190611183630.4ymx7libdotuqfbo@anna.jacobs.jacobs-university.de> Accept-Language: it-IT, en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-originating-ip: [10.203.246.126] Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable MIME-Version: 1.0 X-CFilter-Loop: Reflected Archived-At: Subject: Re: [netmod] [Teas] Key collision between configured and ephemeral list entries X-BeenThere: netmod@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: NETMOD WG list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 18 Jun 2019 17:24:16 -0000 Hi Juergen, What is the DS architecture you have in mind with multiple client creating = entries? Are the two clients creating entries in the same DS or in two dif= ferent DS? In the latter case, the two clients could also rely on different DS and therefore can assign the same name to different entries (since t= hey will be instantiated in different DS). There is no need for them to avo= id name clash In the former case, a name clash would cause one client to override the con= figuration of another client Are the two clients aware of each other? I take the opportunity to clarify one point (not sure I have been clear abo= ut it). I do not think we need to define any rule which is enforced by the = server to avoid name clashes since the server cannot understand whether the= name clash is intentional or not. I think we just need to define some know= n/common/standard rules that allow the client(s) to avoid creating unintend= ed name clashes. Thanks, Italo -----Original Message----- From: Juergen Schoenwaelder [mailto:j.schoenwaelder@jacobs-university.de]=20 Sent: marted=EC 11 giugno 2019 20:37 To: Italo Busi Cc: Andy Bierman ; teas@ietf.org; Tarek Saad ; netmod@ietf.org Subject: Re: [netmod] [Teas] Key collision between configured and ephemeral= list entries On Tue, Jun 11, 2019 at 05:43:27PM +0000, Italo Busi wrote: > [Italo Busi] If the client knows the prefix used by the server, it can=20 > pick up a different prefix and use it to tag its own entries. I think=20 > this rule is not really complex and it seems much simpler than=20 > managing unintended name clashes A prefix only helps a little. Once you have multiple clients creating entri= es, you will have to handle collisions again. Sometimes solving the more ge= neral case leads to solutions that also work nicely in simpler special case= s. =09 /js --=20 Juergen Schoenwaelder Jacobs University Bremen gGmbH Phone: +49 421 200 3587 Campus Ring 1 | 28759 Bremen | Germany Fax: +49 421 200 3103 From nobody Tue Jun 18 19:25:14 2019 Return-Path: X-Original-To: netmod@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: netmod@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 36312120128 for ; Tue, 18 Jun 2019 19:25:12 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -4.199 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-4.199 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-2.3, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id CTA32ra6hvDN for ; Tue, 18 Jun 2019 19:25:10 -0700 (PDT) Received: from huawei.com (lhrrgout.huawei.com [185.176.76.210]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 9F5D112002F for ; Tue, 18 Jun 2019 19:25:09 -0700 (PDT) Received: from lhreml704-cah.china.huawei.com (unknown [172.18.7.106]) by Forcepoint Email with ESMTP id 62FE1BAB5A9F64CC7B78 for ; Wed, 19 Jun 2019 03:25:07 +0100 (IST) Received: from DGGEMM403-HUB.china.huawei.com (10.3.20.211) by lhreml704-cah.china.huawei.com (10.201.108.45) with Microsoft SMTP Server (TLS) id 14.3.408.0; Wed, 19 Jun 2019 03:25:07 +0100 Received: from DGGEMM513-MBX.china.huawei.com ([169.254.1.175]) by DGGEMM403-HUB.china.huawei.com ([10.3.20.211]) with mapi id 14.03.0439.000; Wed, 19 Jun 2019 10:20:58 +0800 From: "Fengchong (frank)" To: "netmod@ietf.org" , "andy@yumaworks.com" CC: "yanjin (A)" Thread-Topic: a question about ietf-hardware yang module Thread-Index: AdUmQwglxAO+8aYzRlOfdHT4SvZXAg== Date: Wed, 19 Jun 2019 02:20:57 +0000 Message-ID: <5756FB984666AD4BB8E1D63E2E3AA3D001ED0EA2@dggemm513-mbx.china.huawei.com> Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: zh-CN X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-originating-ip: [10.134.40.226] Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="_000_5756FB984666AD4BB8E1D63E2E3AA3D001ED0EA2dggemm513mbxchi_" MIME-Version: 1.0 X-CFilter-Loop: Reflected Archived-At: Subject: [netmod] a question about ietf-hardware yang module X-BeenThere: netmod@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: NETMOD WG list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 19 Jun 2019 02:25:12 -0000 --_000_5756FB984666AD4BB8E1D63E2E3AA3D001ED0EA2dggemm513mbxchi_ Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hi andy and all, I'm implementing ietf-hardware.yang, and I have a question about /hardwa= re/last-change. module: ietf-hardware +--rw hardware +--ro last-change? yang:date-and-time +--rw component* [name] +--rw name string +--rw class identityref +--ro physical-index? int32 {entity-mib}? +--ro description? string +--rw parent? -> ../../component/name +--rw parent-rel-pos? int32 +--ro contains-child* -> ../../component/name +--ro hardware-rev? string +--ro firmware-rev? string +--ro software-rev? string +--ro serial-num? string +--ro mfg-name? string +--ro model-name? string +--rw alias? string +--rw asset-id? string +--ro is-fru? boolean +--ro mfg-date? yang:date-and-time +--rw uri* inet:uri +--ro uuid? yang:uuid +--rw state {hardware-state}? | +--ro state-last-changed? yang:date-and-time | +--rw admin-state? admin-state | +--ro oper-state? oper-state | +--ro usage-state? usage-state | +--ro alarm-state? alarm-state | +--ro standby-state? standby-state +--ro sensor-data {hardware-sensor}? +--ro value? sensor-value +--ro value-type? sensor-value-type +--ro value-scale? sensor-value-scale +--ro value-precision? sensor-value-precision +--ro oper-status? sensor-status +--ro units-display? string +--ro value-timestamp? yang:date-and-time +--ro value-update-rate? uint32 Last-change's description: "The time the '/hardware/component' list changed= in the operational state."; It seems this description means any change (configuration change or state c= hange) of list /hardware/component/ will cause the update of /hardware/last= -change. But in description of notification:hardware-state-change notification hardware-state-change { description "A hardware-state-change notification is generated when the value of /hardware/last-change changes in the operational state."; reference "RFC 6933: Entity MIB (Version= 4) - entConfigChange"; } This notification means if any change occurs in /hardware/last-change, a no= tification will be reported. This notification also refers to Entity MIB's entConfigChange. My question is whether only configuration change of hardware component will= cause the update of /hardware/last-change? --_000_5756FB984666AD4BB8E1D63E2E3AA3D001ED0EA2dggemm513mbxchi_ Content-Type: text/html; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

Hi andy and all,

   I’m implemen= ting ietf-hardware.yang, and I have a question about /hardware/last-change.=

 

 =   module: ietf-hardware

 =     +--rw hardware

 =        +--ro last-change?   yan= g:date-and-time

 =        +--rw component* [name]=

 =           +--rw name =              st= ring

 =           +--rw class = ;            identit= yref

 =           +--ro physical-i= ndex?   int32 {entity-mib}?

 =           +--ro descriptio= n?      string

 =           +--rw parent?&nb= sp;          -> ../../compo= nent/name

 =           +--rw parent-rel= -pos?   int32

 =           +--ro contains-c= hild*   -> ../../component/name

 =           +--ro hardware-r= ev?     string

 =           +--ro firmware-r= ev?     string

 =           +--ro software-r= ev?     string

 =           +--ro serial-num= ?       string

 =           +--ro mfg-name?&= nbsp;        string

 =           +--ro model-name= ?       string

 =           +--rw alias?&nbs= p;           string<= /o:p>

 =           +--rw asset-id?&= nbsp;        string

 =           +--ro is-fru?&nb= sp;          boolean

 =           +--ro mfg-date?&= nbsp;        yang:date-and-time

 &nbs=
p;         +--rw uri* &nbs=
p;            inet:u=
ri
 &nbs=
p;         +--ro uuid? &nb=
sp;           yang:uuid
 &nbs=
p;         +--rw state {hardwar=
e-state}?
 &nbs=
p;         |  +--ro state-=
last-changed?   yang:date-and-time
 &nbs=
p;         |  +--rw admin-=
state?          admin-state
 &nbs=
p;         |  +--ro oper-s=
tate?           oper-stat=
e
 &nbs=
p;         |  +--ro usage-=
state?          usage-state
 &nbs=
p;         |  +--ro alarm-=
state?          alarm-state
 &nbs=
p;         |  +--ro standb=
y-state?        standby-state=

 &nbs=
p;         +--ro sensor-data {h=
ardware-sensor}?
 &nbs=
p;            +-=
-ro value?           =
;    sensor-value
 &nbs=
p;            +-=
-ro value-type?          senso=
r-value-type
 &nbs=
p;            +-=
-ro value-scale?         sensor-val=
ue-scale
 &nbs=
p;            +-=
-ro value-precision?     sensor-value-precision
 &nbs=
p;            +-=
-ro oper-status?         sensor-sta=
tus
 &nbs=
p;            +-=
-ro units-display?       string
 &nbs=
p;            +-=
-ro value-timestamp?     yang:date-and-time<=
/span>
 &nbs=
p;            +-=
-ro value-update-rate?   uint32

 

Last-cha=
nge’s description: "The time the '/hardware/component' list changed in=
 the
 &n=
bsp;         operational state.&quo=
t;;

It seems this description means any change (configuration change = or state change) of list /hardware/component/ will cause the update of /har= dware/last-change.

 

But in d=
escription of  notification:hardware-state-change
 &n=
bsp;  notification hardware-state-change {
 &n=
bsp;    description
 &n=
bsp;      "A hardware-state-change notificati=
on is generated when the
 &n=
bsp;       value of /hardware/last-change cha=
nges in the operational
 &n=
bsp;       state.";

 &n=
bsp;    reference


 &n=
bsp;      "RFC 6933: Entity MIB=
 (Version 4) - entConfigChange";


 &n=
bsp;  }


&nb=
sp;


This not=
ification means if any change occurs in /hardware/last-change, a notificati=
on will be reported.


This not=
ification also refers to Entity MIB’s entConfigChange.


&nb=
sp;


My quest=
ion is whether only configuration change of hardware component will cause t=
he update of /hardware/last-change? 


 
--_000_5756FB984666AD4BB8E1D63E2E3AA3D001ED0EA2dggemm513mbxchi_-- From nobody Tue Jun 18 23:24:04 2019 Return-Path: X-Original-To: netmod@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: netmod@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id EE5821202A7; Tue, 18 Jun 2019 23:24:02 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -4.2 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-4.2 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-2.3, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id JxuYL-DL02zL; Tue, 18 Jun 2019 23:24:00 -0700 (PDT) Received: from huawei.com (lhrrgout.huawei.com [185.176.76.210]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 46C4C120089; 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charset="gb2312" Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-CFilter-Loop: Reflected Archived-At: Subject: Re: [netmod] [Teas] Key collision between configured and ephemeral list entries X-BeenThere: netmod@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: NETMOD WG list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 19 Jun 2019 06:24:03 -0000 U29ycnkgdG8gY2hpbWUgaW4uDQpJZiBteSB1bmRlcnN0YW5kaW5nIGlzIGNvcnJlY3QsIEkgdGhp bmsgaW4gbW9zdCBjYXNlcyB0aGUgRFMgc2hvdWxkIGJlIHNoYXJlZCBieSBtdWx0aXBsZSBjbGll bnRzLiBJbiB0aGUgZmlyc3QgY2FzZSwgdGhlIDxsb2NrPiBvcGVyYXRpb24gc2hvdWxkIGJlIHVz ZWQgdG8gcHJldmVudCB0d28gY2xpZW50cyBmcm9tIHdyaXRpbmcgdGhlIGNvbnRlbnQgaW50byB0 aGUgc2FtZSBkYXRhc3RvcmUgYXQgdGhlIHNhbWUgdGltZS4NCg0KLVFpbg0KLS0tLS3Tyrz+1K28 /i0tLS0tDQq3orz+yMs6IFRlYXMgW21haWx0bzp0ZWFzLWJvdW5jZXNAaWV0Zi5vcmddILT6se0g SXRhbG8gQnVzaQ0Kt6LLzcqxvOQ6IDIwMTnE6jbUwjE5yNUgMToyNA0KytW8/sjLOiBKdWVyZ2Vu IFNjaG9lbndhZWxkZXIgPGouc2Nob2Vud2FlbGRlckBqYWNvYnMtdW5pdmVyc2l0eS5kZT4NCrOt y806IG5ldG1vZEBpZXRmLm9yZzsgVGFyZWsgU2FhZCA8dHNhYWQubmV0QGdtYWlsLmNvbT47IEFu ZHkgQmllcm1hbiA8YW5keUB5dW1hd29ya3MuY29tPjsgdGVhc0BpZXRmLm9yZw0K1vfM4jogUmU6 IFtUZWFzXSBbbmV0bW9kXSBLZXkgY29sbGlzaW9uIGJldHdlZW4gY29uZmlndXJlZCBhbmQgZXBo ZW1lcmFsIGxpc3QgZW50cmllcw0KDQpIaSBKdWVyZ2VuLA0KDQpXaGF0IGlzIHRoZSBEUyBhcmNo aXRlY3R1cmUgeW91IGhhdmUgaW4gbWluZCB3aXRoIG11bHRpcGxlIGNsaWVudCBjcmVhdGluZyBl bnRyaWVzPw0KDQpBcmUgdGhlIHR3byBjbGllbnRzIGNyZWF0aW5nIGVudHJpZXMgaW4gdGhlIHNh bWUgPHJ1bm5pbmc+IERTIG9yIGluIHR3byBkaWZmZXJlbnQgPHJ1bm5pbmc+IERTPw0KDQpJbiB0 aGUgbGF0dGVyIGNhc2UsIHRoZSB0d28gY2xpZW50cyBjb3VsZCBhbHNvIHJlbHkgb24gZGlmZmVy ZW50IDxvcGVyYXRpb25hbD4gRFMgYW5kIHRoZXJlZm9yZSBjYW4gYXNzaWduIHRoZSBzYW1lIG5h bWUgdG8gZGlmZmVyZW50IGVudHJpZXMgKHNpbmNlIHRoZXkgd2lsbCBiZSBpbnN0YW50aWF0ZWQg aW4gZGlmZmVyZW50IERTKS4gVGhlcmUgaXMgbm8gbmVlZCBmb3IgdGhlbSB0byBhdm9pZCBuYW1l IGNsYXNoDQoNCkluIHRoZSBmb3JtZXIgY2FzZSwgYSBuYW1lIGNsYXNoIHdvdWxkIGNhdXNlIG9u ZSBjbGllbnQgdG8gb3ZlcnJpZGUgdGhlIGNvbmZpZ3VyYXRpb24gb2YgYW5vdGhlciBjbGllbnQN Cg0KQXJlIHRoZSB0d28gY2xpZW50cyBhd2FyZSBvZiBlYWNoIG90aGVyPw0KDQpJIHRha2UgdGhl IG9wcG9ydHVuaXR5IHRvIGNsYXJpZnkgb25lIHBvaW50IChub3Qgc3VyZSBJIGhhdmUgYmVlbiBj bGVhciBhYm91dCBpdCkuIEkgZG8gbm90IHRoaW5rIHdlIG5lZWQgdG8gZGVmaW5lIGFueSBydWxl IHdoaWNoIGlzIGVuZm9yY2VkIGJ5IHRoZSBzZXJ2ZXIgdG8gYXZvaWQgbmFtZSBjbGFzaGVzIHNp bmNlIHRoZSBzZXJ2ZXIgY2Fubm90IHVuZGVyc3RhbmQgd2hldGhlciB0aGUgbmFtZSBjbGFzaCBp cyBpbnRlbnRpb25hbCBvciBub3QuIEkgdGhpbmsgd2UganVzdCBuZWVkIHRvIGRlZmluZSBzb21l IGtub3duL2NvbW1vbi9zdGFuZGFyZCBydWxlcyB0aGF0IGFsbG93IHRoZSBjbGllbnQocykgdG8g YXZvaWQgY3JlYXRpbmcgdW5pbnRlbmRlZCBuYW1lIGNsYXNoZXMuDQoNClRoYW5rcywgSXRhbG8N Cg0KLS0tLS1PcmlnaW5hbCBNZXNzYWdlLS0tLS0NCkZyb206IEp1ZXJnZW4gU2Nob2Vud2FlbGRl ciBbbWFpbHRvOmouc2Nob2Vud2FlbGRlckBqYWNvYnMtdW5pdmVyc2l0eS5kZV0NClNlbnQ6IG1h cnRlZKisIDExIGdpdWdubyAyMDE5IDIwOjM3DQpUbzogSXRhbG8gQnVzaSA8SXRhbG8uQnVzaUBo dWF3ZWkuY29tPg0KQ2M6IEFuZHkgQmllcm1hbiA8YW5keUB5dW1hd29ya3MuY29tPjsgdGVhc0Bp ZXRmLm9yZzsgVGFyZWsgU2FhZCA8dHNhYWQubmV0QGdtYWlsLmNvbT47IG5ldG1vZEBpZXRmLm9y Zw0KU3ViamVjdDogUmU6IFtuZXRtb2RdIFtUZWFzXSBLZXkgY29sbGlzaW9uIGJldHdlZW4gY29u ZmlndXJlZCBhbmQgZXBoZW1lcmFsIGxpc3QgZW50cmllcw0KDQpPbiBUdWUsIEp1biAxMSwgMjAx OSBhdCAwNTo0MzoyN1BNICswMDAwLCBJdGFsbyBCdXNpIHdyb3RlOg0KDQo+IFtJdGFsbyBCdXNp XSBJZiB0aGUgY2xpZW50IGtub3dzIHRoZSBwcmVmaXggdXNlZCBieSB0aGUgc2VydmVyLCBpdCBj YW4gDQo+IHBpY2sgdXAgYSBkaWZmZXJlbnQgcHJlZml4IGFuZCB1c2UgaXQgdG8gdGFnIGl0cyBv d24gZW50cmllcy4gSSB0aGluayANCj4gdGhpcyBydWxlIGlzIG5vdCByZWFsbHkgY29tcGxleCBh bmQgaXQgc2VlbXMgbXVjaCBzaW1wbGVyIHRoYW4gDQo+IG1hbmFnaW5nIHVuaW50ZW5kZWQgbmFt ZSBjbGFzaGVzDQoNCkEgcHJlZml4IG9ubHkgaGVscHMgYSBsaXR0bGUuIE9uY2UgeW91IGhhdmUg bXVsdGlwbGUgY2xpZW50cyBjcmVhdGluZyBlbnRyaWVzLCB5b3Ugd2lsbCBoYXZlIHRvIGhhbmRs ZSBjb2xsaXNpb25zIGFnYWluLiBTb21ldGltZXMgc29sdmluZyB0aGUgbW9yZSBnZW5lcmFsIGNh c2UgbGVhZHMgdG8gc29sdXRpb25zIHRoYXQgYWxzbyB3b3JrIG5pY2VseSBpbiBzaW1wbGVyIHNw ZWNpYWwgY2FzZXMuDQoJDQovanMNCg0KLS0gDQpKdWVyZ2VuIFNjaG9lbndhZWxkZXIgICAgICAg ICAgIEphY29icyBVbml2ZXJzaXR5IEJyZW1lbiBnR21iSA0KUGhvbmU6ICs0OSA0MjEgMjAwIDM1 ODcgICAgICAgICBDYW1wdXMgUmluZyAxIHwgMjg3NTkgQnJlbWVuIHwgR2VybWFueQ0KRmF4OiAg ICs0OSA0MjEgMjAwIDMxMDMgICAgICAgICA8aHR0cHM6Ly93d3cuamFjb2JzLXVuaXZlcnNpdHku ZGUvPg0KDQpfX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fXw0K VGVhcyBtYWlsaW5nIGxpc3QNClRlYXNAaWV0Zi5vcmcNCmh0dHBzOi8vd3d3LmlldGYub3JnL21h aWxtYW4vbGlzdGluZm8vdGVhcw0K From nobody Tue Jun 18 23:38:23 2019 Return-Path: X-Original-To: netmod@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: netmod@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id D2EE2120128 for ; 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Wed, 19 Jun 2019 08:37:25 +0200 (CEST) To: netmod@ietf.org, ARTURO MAYORAL LOPEZ DE LERMA , Italo Busi , "Sethuraman, Karthik" From: Ramon Casellas Message-ID: Date: Wed, 19 Jun 2019 08:37:25 +0200 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; Linux x86_64; rv:60.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/60.7.1 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Content-Language: en-US Archived-At: Subject: [netmod] Question on RESTCONF / Yang list creation without key value X-BeenThere: netmod@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: NETMOD WG list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 19 Jun 2019 06:38:22 -0000 Dear all, Apologies if this is a FAQ, or a basic question but we have been recently involved in using RESTCONF  / YANG as a controller NBI to request optical connections in the photonic media layer within the TAPI framework and we have a doubt. TL&DR: is it possible to create a list entry without specifying its key, assuming that the server can allocate such key while processing the request ? For the context, the TAPI connectivity model allows a client to request a connectivity-service. Assume the server manages a list of connectivity-services (within a context) keyed by a UUID.   grouping connectivity-context {             list connectivity-service {                 key 'uuid';                 uses connectivity-service;             }   } with grouping connectivity-service {             list end-point {                 key 'local-id';                 min-elements 2;                 uses connectivity-service-end-point;             }             leaf uuid {                 type uuid;            } For historical reasons, there are two flavors: one is RPC based and the other one is data node based. In the RPC based approach, the RPC method allows the client to specify the endpoints, the server creates the service and replies with the details.         rpc create-connectivity-service {             input {                 list end-point {                     key 'local-id';                     min-elements 2;                     uses connectivity-service-end-point;                 }          ...             output {                 container service {                     uses connectivity-service;                 }             }         } When considering deprecating the RPCs and moving towards a plain POST, we want to know if the client MAY not specify a uuid, as in POST to http://localhost:4900/restconf/data/tapi-common:context/tapi-connectivity:connectivity-context {     "tapi-connectivity:connectivity-service" : [        {           "end-point" : [              {               ...              }, A particular use case is as follows: The client MAY specify a uuid when requesting a connectivity service - The server MUST allocate a uuid upon creation of the list entry - If the client provided uuid can be used, the server MUST use that UUID (provided there are no conflicts, other errors, etc) - If such uuid is already in use, the server MUST reply with a failure (in-use, 409) or similar. The client MAY retry the operation with another client generated UUID. - If the operation is successful  the server MUST reply with the Location header It seems this case is somehow covered by the RPC, but when a new connectivity-service resource is requested through the RESTCONF Data API through a POST operation, MUST the client specify the key (uuid) or is it legal to allow the server to process the request, allocate the uuid in the process and return the location header?. It is assumed that the server has all the information needed to allocate a uuid. As per RFC7950    The combined values of all the leafs specified in the key are used to    uniquely identify a list entry.  All key leafs MUST be given values    when a list entry is created.  Thus, any default values in the key    leafs or their types are ignored.  Any "mandatory" statements in the    key leafs are ignored.   A leaf that is part of the key can be of any built-in or    derived type.  All key leafs in a list MUST have the same value for their "config"    as the list itself. It does not explicitly say "by the client", but it can be inferred. Different views are i) the server may allocate the uuid, [ as in https://www.w3.org/Protocols/rfc2616/rfc2616-sec9.html#sec9.5: If a resource has been created on the origin server, the response SHOULD be 201 (Created) and contain an entity which describes the status of the request and refers to the new resource, and a Location header (see section 14.30) ] ensuring unique leys or ii) the uuid must be provided by the client  We are also aware that with NETCONF things can be different (7.8.6.  NETCONF Operations  List entries can be created, deleted, replaced, and modified through , by using the "operation" attribute in the list's XML  element.  In each case, the values of all keys are used to uniquely   identify a list entry.  If all keys are not specified for a list    entry, a "missing-element" error is returned.) Thank you very much in advance Ramon From nobody Wed Jun 19 02:07:06 2019 Return-Path: X-Original-To: netmod@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: netmod@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6DE9E1203F5; Wed, 19 Jun 2019 02:07:04 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -14.5 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-14.5 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_HI=-5, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001, USER_IN_DEF_DKIM_WL=-7.5] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (1024-bit key) header.d=cisco.com header.b=LTZ1lb/J; dkim=pass (1024-bit key) header.d=cisco.onmicrosoft.com header.b=PYiILSHJ Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id i5K78O9S9eSS; Wed, 19 Jun 2019 02:07:02 -0700 (PDT) Received: from rcdn-iport-7.cisco.com (rcdn-iport-7.cisco.com [173.37.86.78]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher DHE-RSA-SEED-SHA (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 9F33A120396; 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DIR:OUT; SFP:1101; SCL:1; SRVR:BYAPR11MB2886; H:BYAPR11MB2631.namprd11.prod.outlook.com; FPR:; SPF:None; LANG:en; PTR:InfoNoRecords; A:1; MX:1; received-spf: None (protection.outlook.com: cisco.com does not designate permitted sender hosts) x-ms-exchange-senderadcheck: 1 x-microsoft-antispam-message-info: fNNH3V2AVsXnxJMuPNOzcFxj8YPg56YRIayZA83MhP0foTSpTxPLoHURxvQLlZgqtPmnutkX+ufhFHr3BwV4dgPm8kTZJSxbxlGuT/Xg8NGCmUwhSfqRDYxpRtz0EJgGDTlYftL+Ai8/wcdduSlZTUrdxsmbDLh9PWgeVb/qU5wGPtiLJ6h19j0ctflOlv/rwxOFekDclF1xwZvNi2X5imvw7mlD1oIKc4fxdf5JZVA2gjt07vQ0HeOL+b1ooCVgorOxKw5JOb+/lrLiHBGQUit6OATv1mmEICrTzb2e7cHzJUt2+OJ6A0dyazOHUuKQbxVgm5l48nbDwj2mqvr+HxOuz8ejnnFvoxpMmTvwnmBnw8o0I3IVNbSQ3K2zV/G1gKDWQermB5LpMx9JsavLFtO3xTtG87r8iE5NHCp5iJE= Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable MIME-Version: 1.0 X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-Network-Message-Id: 818e5e03-4f1c-46d2-10a0-08d6f4957a02 X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-originalarrivaltime: 19 Jun 2019 09:06:55.1645 (UTC) X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-fromentityheader: Hosted X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-id: 5ae1af62-9505-4097-a69a-c1553ef7840e X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-mailboxtype: HOSTED X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-userprincipalname: rwilton@cisco.com X-MS-Exchange-Transport-CrossTenantHeadersStamped: BYAPR11MB2886 X-OriginatorOrg: cisco.com X-Outbound-SMTP-Client: 173.36.7.23, xch-aln-013.cisco.com X-Outbound-Node: rcdn-core-3.cisco.com Archived-At: Subject: Re: [netmod] [Teas] Key collision between configured and ephemeral list entries X-BeenThere: netmod@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: NETMOD WG list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 19 Jun 2019 09:07:04 -0000 Hi Italo, My interpretation of the NMDA guidelines are thus: - If multiple clients are writing the same values to then the cli= ents must coordinate between themselves to ensure that the correct values a= re written to , otherwise the last verified change written to wins. Locks can be used to coordinate client writes to if = required. - If multiple clients are writing to different datastores, e.g. one client = is writing to and another is writing to some form of ephemeral da= tastore, then the ephemeral datastore definition must specify what mechanis= m is used to resolve configuration conflicts between configuration datastor= es. Naively, my starting point would be to say that configuration in an ep= hemeral datastore should override configuration that is in . - If the decision is from a data node configured in and a data no= de injected by the system into then it is up to the device to= decide how to resolve these (i.e. the system chooses which version of the = data node to use, and the result of that decision is tagged in using the origin metadata). Generally, I would expect an explicitly conf= igured data node in should take precedence over system generated = config, but there might be cases where this doesn't make sense, and perhaps= there might be cases where the data model recommends different behaviour. - I would assume that there is only a single datastore. I'm = not sure whether NMDA explicitly requires this, but we couldn't think of an= y scenario where multiple operational datastores would be helpful. Thanks, Rob > -----Original Message----- > From: Teas On Behalf Of Italo Busi > Sent: 18 June 2019 18:24 > To: Juergen Schoenwaelder > Cc: netmod@ietf.org; Tarek Saad ; Andy Bierman > ; teas@ietf.org > Subject: Re: [Teas] [netmod] Key collision between configured and > ephemeral list entries >=20 > Hi Juergen, >=20 > What is the DS architecture you have in mind with multiple client creatin= g > entries? >=20 > Are the two clients creating entries in the same DS or in two > different DS? >=20 > In the latter case, the two clients could also rely on different > DS and therefore can assign the same name to different > entries (since they will be instantiated in different DS). There is no > need for them to avoid name clash >=20 > In the former case, a name clash would cause one client to override the > configuration of another client >=20 > Are the two clients aware of each other? >=20 > I take the opportunity to clarify one point (not sure I have been clear > about it). I do not think we need to define any rule which is enforced by > the server to avoid name clashes since the server cannot understand > whether the name clash is intentional or not. I think we just need to > define some known/common/standard rules that allow the client(s) to avoid > creating unintended name clashes. >=20 > Thanks, Italo >=20 > -----Original Message----- > From: Juergen Schoenwaelder [mailto:j.schoenwaelder@jacobs-university.de] > Sent: marted=EC 11 giugno 2019 20:37 > To: Italo Busi > Cc: Andy Bierman ; teas@ietf.org; Tarek Saad > ; netmod@ietf.org > Subject: Re: [netmod] [Teas] Key collision between configured and > ephemeral list entries >=20 > On Tue, Jun 11, 2019 at 05:43:27PM +0000, Italo Busi wrote: >=20 > > [Italo Busi] If the client knows the prefix used by the server, it can > > pick up a different prefix and use it to tag its own entries. I think > > this rule is not really complex and it seems much simpler than > > managing unintended name clashes >=20 > A prefix only helps a little. Once you have multiple clients creating > entries, you will have to handle collisions again. Sometimes solving the > more general case leads to solutions that also work nicely in simpler > special cases. >=20 > /js >=20 > -- > Juergen Schoenwaelder Jacobs University Bremen gGmbH > Phone: +49 421 200 3587 Campus Ring 1 | 28759 Bremen | Germany > Fax: +49 421 200 3103 >=20 > _______________________________________________ > Teas mailing list > Teas@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/teas From nobody Wed Jun 19 04:51:25 2019 Return-Path: X-Original-To: netmod@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: netmod@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 58D0112013C; Wed, 19 Jun 2019 04:51:24 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -4.2 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-4.2 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-2.3, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost 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19 Jun 2019 11:50:45 +0000 Message-ID: <91E3A1BD737FDF4FA14118387FF6766B2776A7C8@lhreml504-mbs> References: In-Reply-To: Accept-Language: it-IT, en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-originating-ip: [10.203.246.126] Content-Type: text/plain; charset="gb2312" Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-CFilter-Loop: Reflected Archived-At: Subject: Re: [netmod] [Teas] Key collision between configured and ephemeral list entries X-BeenThere: netmod@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: NETMOD WG list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 19 Jun 2019 11:51:24 -0000 SGkgUWluLA0KDQpUaGFua3MgZm9yIHlvdXIgZmVlZGJhY2sNCg0KVGhlIDxsb2NrPiBvcGVyYXRp b24gd291bGQgYWxsb3cgdGhlIHR3byBjbGllbnRzIG5vdCB0byBjcmVhdGUgYW55IHVuaW50ZW50 aW9uYWwgbmFtZSBjbGFzaC4gVGhlcmVmb3JlLCBJIHRoaW5rLCB0aGUgaXNzdWUgb2YgYXZvaWRp 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"netmod@ietf.org" , Tarek Saad , Andy Bierman , "teas@ietf.org" Thread-Topic: [Teas] [netmod] Key collision between configured and ephemeral list entries Thread-Index: AQHVJn5k7yB2tfw3aEWFuocoir+bQ6ai20yA Date: Wed, 19 Jun 2019 12:51:02 +0000 Message-ID: <91E3A1BD737FDF4FA14118387FF6766B2776A93F@lhreml504-mbs> References: <91E3A1BD737FDF4FA14118387FF6766B2774E51F@lhreml504-mbs> <028b01d51933$1015fa80$4001a8c0@gateway.2wire.net> <91E3A1BD737FDF4FA14118387FF6766B2775CF49@lhreml504-mbs> <20190611160106.5o3pslwmnhaoyjzx@anna.jacobs.jacobs-university.de> <91E3A1BD737FDF4FA14118387FF6766B2775D052@lhreml504-mbs> <20190611171900.xzzwofx5nwtj77cv@anna.jacobs.jacobs-university.de> <91E3A1BD737FDF4FA14118387FF6766B2775D16D@lhreml504-mbs> <20190611183630.4ymx7libdotuqfbo@anna.jacobs.jacobs-university.de> <91E3A1BD737FDF4FA14118387FF6766B27769528@lhreml504-mbs> In-Reply-To: Accept-Language: it-IT, en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-originating-ip: [10.203.246.126] Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable MIME-Version: 1.0 X-CFilter-Loop: Reflected Archived-At: Subject: Re: [netmod] [Teas] Key collision between configured and ephemeral list entries X-BeenThere: netmod@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: NETMOD WG list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 19 Jun 2019 12:51:10 -0000 Hi Rob, Thanks a lot for your comments Your interpretation makes a lot of sense in case of an "intentional" name c= lash (e.g., when an entry is configured by the client in the DS t= o configure some intended behavior, like admin status, for an entry injecte= d by the system in the DS): in this case the same name/key va= lue is used to indicate that the two DS entries are referring to the same e= ntity My concern is how to avoid "unintentional" name clashes (e.g., between an e= ntry configured by the client in the DS and another entry injecte= d by the system in the DS) because in this situation the beha= vior described below is not desirable: the two DS entries are actually refe= rring to two different entities which by accident got assigned the same nam= e/key value Italo -----Original Message----- From: Rob Wilton (rwilton) [mailto:rwilton@cisco.com]=20 Sent: mercoled=EC 19 giugno 2019 11:07 To: Italo Busi ; Juergen Schoenwaelder Cc: netmod@ietf.org; Tarek Saad ; Andy Bierman ; teas@ietf.org Subject: RE: [Teas] [netmod] Key collision between configured and ephemeral= list entries Hi Italo, My interpretation of the NMDA guidelines are thus: - If multiple clients are writing the same values to then the cli= ents must coordinate between themselves to ensure that the correct values a= re written to , otherwise the last verified change written to wins. Locks can be used to coordinate client writes to if = required. - If multiple clients are writing to different datastores, e.g. one client = is writing to and another is writing to some form of ephemeral da= tastore, then the ephemeral datastore definition must specify what mechanis= m is used to resolve configuration conflicts between configuration datastor= es. Naively, my starting point would be to say that configuration in an ep= hemeral datastore should override configuration that is in . - If the decision is from a data node configured in and a data no= de injected by the system into then it is up to the device to= decide how to resolve these (i.e. the system chooses which version of the = data node to use, and the result of that decision is tagged in using the origin metadata). Generally, I would expect an explicitly conf= igured data node in should take precedence over system generated = config, but there might be cases where this doesn't make sense, and perhaps= there might be cases where the data model recommends different behaviour. - I would assume that there is only a single datastore. I'm = not sure whether NMDA explicitly requires this, but we couldn't think of an= y scenario where multiple operational datastores would be helpful. Thanks, Rob > -----Original Message----- > From: Teas On Behalf Of Italo Busi > Sent: 18 June 2019 18:24 > To: Juergen Schoenwaelder > Cc: netmod@ietf.org; Tarek Saad ; Andy Bierman=20 > ; teas@ietf.org > Subject: Re: [Teas] [netmod] Key collision between configured and=20 > ephemeral list entries >=20 > Hi Juergen, >=20 > What is the DS architecture you have in mind with multiple client=20 > creating entries? >=20 > Are the two clients creating entries in the same DS or in=20 > two different DS? >=20 > In the latter case, the two clients could also rely on different=20 > DS and therefore can assign the same name to different=20 > entries (since they will be instantiated in different DS). There is no=20 > need for them to avoid name clash >=20 > In the former case, a name clash would cause one client to override=20 > the configuration of another client >=20 > Are the two clients aware of each other? >=20 > I take the opportunity to clarify one point (not sure I have been=20 > clear about it). I do not think we need to define any rule which is=20 > enforced by the server to avoid name clashes since the server cannot=20 > understand whether the name clash is intentional or not. I think we=20 > just need to define some known/common/standard rules that allow the=20 > client(s) to avoid creating unintended name clashes. >=20 > Thanks, Italo >=20 > -----Original Message----- > From: Juergen Schoenwaelder=20 > [mailto:j.schoenwaelder@jacobs-university.de] > Sent: marted=EC 11 giugno 2019 20:37 > To: Italo Busi > Cc: Andy Bierman ; teas@ietf.org; Tarek Saad=20 > ; netmod@ietf.org > Subject: Re: [netmod] [Teas] Key collision between configured and=20 > ephemeral list entries >=20 > On Tue, Jun 11, 2019 at 05:43:27PM +0000, Italo Busi wrote: >=20 > > [Italo Busi] If the client knows the prefix used by the server, it=20 > > can pick up a different prefix and use it to tag its own entries. I=20 > > think this rule is not really complex and it seems much simpler than=20 > > managing unintended name clashes >=20 > A prefix only helps a little. Once you have multiple clients creating=20 > entries, you will have to handle collisions again. Sometimes solving=20 > the more general case leads to solutions that also work nicely in=20 > simpler special cases. >=20 > /js >=20 > -- > Juergen Schoenwaelder Jacobs University Bremen gGmbH > Phone: +49 421 200 3587 Campus Ring 1 | 28759 Bremen | Germany > Fax: +49 421 200 3103 >=20 > _______________________________________________ > Teas mailing list > Teas@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/teas From nobody Wed Jun 19 07:18:08 2019 Return-Path: X-Original-To: netmod@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: netmod@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7D1251205E9; Wed, 19 Jun 2019 07:17:54 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -14.5 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-14.5 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_HI=-5, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001, USER_IN_DEF_DKIM_WL=-7.5] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); 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Wed, 19 Jun 2019 14:17:47 +0000 Received: from BYAPR11MB2631.namprd11.prod.outlook.com ([fe80::ed99:b6a8:d6fb:5045]) by BYAPR11MB2631.namprd11.prod.outlook.com ([fe80::ed99:b6a8:d6fb:5045%4]) with mapi id 15.20.1987.014; Wed, 19 Jun 2019 14:17:47 +0000 From: "Rob Wilton (rwilton)" To: Italo Busi , Juergen Schoenwaelder CC: "netmod@ietf.org" , Tarek Saad , Andy Bierman , "teas@ietf.org" Thread-Topic: [Teas] [netmod] Key collision between configured and ephemeral list entries Thread-Index: AQHVJfq3HbVqJ7wQTku6G+2+NOkmA6airETwgABDEwCAABcXQA== Date: Wed, 19 Jun 2019 14:17:47 +0000 Message-ID: References: <91E3A1BD737FDF4FA14118387FF6766B2774E51F@lhreml504-mbs> <028b01d51933$1015fa80$4001a8c0@gateway.2wire.net> <91E3A1BD737FDF4FA14118387FF6766B2775CF49@lhreml504-mbs> <20190611160106.5o3pslwmnhaoyjzx@anna.jacobs.jacobs-university.de> <91E3A1BD737FDF4FA14118387FF6766B2775D052@lhreml504-mbs> <20190611171900.xzzwofx5nwtj77cv@anna.jacobs.jacobs-university.de> <91E3A1BD737FDF4FA14118387FF6766B2775D16D@lhreml504-mbs> <20190611183630.4ymx7libdotuqfbo@anna.jacobs.jacobs-university.de> <91E3A1BD737FDF4FA14118387FF6766B27769528@lhreml504-mbs> <91E3A1BD737FDF4FA14118387FF6766B2776A93F@lhreml504-mbs> In-Reply-To: <91E3A1BD737FDF4FA14118387FF6766B2776A93F@lhreml504-mbs> Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: authentication-results: spf=none (sender IP is ) smtp.mailfrom=rwilton@cisco.com; 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DIR:OUT; SFP:1101; SCL:1; SRVR:BYAPR11MB3717; H:BYAPR11MB2631.namprd11.prod.outlook.com; FPR:; SPF:None; LANG:en; PTR:InfoNoRecords; MX:1; A:1; received-spf: None (protection.outlook.com: cisco.com does not designate permitted sender hosts) x-ms-exchange-senderadcheck: 1 x-microsoft-antispam-message-info: nuUQPj6bYKkxTRsvlyL1JsRWIVBQjJYUnPFQBH7mV5Pi/Kn5Itah5Y3Y88biQ+4EOMD1ujU4i47KDEt2/kOxfmpS8gkv5HBvgiEo+8tlhow9QQV8C99okm8QjtUGpd0s96NEIUnM5BRcKyKMhtabMuDz+uP17z7EGPY3HvrPkaJbMMxkElfuC8tgm08rI1XiYvVAyUOh9xNiac+XBjGtx9EyPbGkxHrFLDsi2jvUGjupNSUkQgXK3YIFLo3zpSYR1fd75MWyVaO93NT6BTCrqpfI18YwM37/1KKGeeUux8t21lanDHuEMn2TA/IFOINdgJMEuNH1Ls85O5IVGTDtUlLyJfznpZTb0q7Q8hmi3Gz20JByuEOtPtk1WxPZ4xXsLiSUwqOX4lByrYbmfpt/WsQSWg+aIKWr/6HHvxffNKI= Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable MIME-Version: 1.0 X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-Network-Message-Id: da38a052-953c-417d-13ad-08d6f4c0e7ae X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-originalarrivaltime: 19 Jun 2019 14:17:47.5498 (UTC) X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-fromentityheader: Hosted X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-id: 5ae1af62-9505-4097-a69a-c1553ef7840e X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-mailboxtype: HOSTED X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-userprincipalname: rwilton@cisco.com X-MS-Exchange-Transport-CrossTenantHeadersStamped: BYAPR11MB3717 X-OriginatorOrg: cisco.com X-Outbound-SMTP-Client: 173.37.102.16, xch-rcd-006.cisco.com X-Outbound-Node: alln-core-2.cisco.com Archived-At: Subject: Re: [netmod] [Teas] Key collision between configured and ephemeral list entries X-BeenThere: netmod@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: NETMOD WG list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 19 Jun 2019 14:18:00 -0000 Hi Italo, Using a prefix (which can also be configured by the user) for the system cr= eated objects to avoid name collisions seems reasonable to me. I wouldn't = use a symbol (like #), but instead would suggest a prefix string like "sys-= ". But I think that it is appropriate to solve this within the specific data m= odel rather that requiring a system wide solution. Thanks, Rob > -----Original Message----- > From: Italo Busi > Sent: 19 June 2019 13:51 > To: Rob Wilton (rwilton) ; Juergen Schoenwaelder > > Cc: netmod@ietf.org; Tarek Saad ; Andy Bierman > ; teas@ietf.org > Subject: RE: [Teas] [netmod] Key collision between configured and > ephemeral list entries >=20 > Hi Rob, >=20 > Thanks a lot for your comments >=20 > Your interpretation makes a lot of sense in case of an "intentional" name > clash (e.g., when an entry is configured by the client in the D= S > to configure some intended behavior, like admin status, for an entry > injected by the system in the DS): in this case the same > name/key value is used to indicate that the two DS entries are referring > to the same entity >=20 > My concern is how to avoid "unintentional" name clashes (e.g., between an > entry configured by the client in the DS and another entry > injected by the system in the DS) because in this situation > the behavior described below is not desirable: the two DS entries are > actually referring to two different entities which by accident got > assigned the same name/key value >=20 > Italo >=20 > -----Original Message----- > From: Rob Wilton (rwilton) [mailto:rwilton@cisco.com] > Sent: mercoled=EC 19 giugno 2019 11:07 > To: Italo Busi ; Juergen Schoenwaelder > > Cc: netmod@ietf.org; Tarek Saad ; Andy Bierman > ; teas@ietf.org > Subject: RE: [Teas] [netmod] Key collision between configured and > ephemeral list entries >=20 > Hi Italo, >=20 > My interpretation of the NMDA guidelines are thus: >=20 > - If multiple clients are writing the same values to then the > clients must coordinate between themselves to ensure that the correct > values are written to , otherwise the last verified change > written to wins. Locks can be used to coordinate client writes > to if required. >=20 > - If multiple clients are writing to different datastores, e.g. one clien= t > is writing to and another is writing to some form of ephemeral > datastore, then the ephemeral datastore definition must specify what > mechanism is used to resolve configuration conflicts between configuratio= n > datastores. Naively, my starting point would be to say that configuratio= n > in an ephemeral datastore should override configuration that is in > . >=20 > - If the decision is from a data node configured in and a data > node injected by the system into then it is up to the devic= e > to decide how to resolve these (i.e. the system chooses which version of > the data node to use, and the result of that decision is tagged in > using the origin metadata). Generally, I would expect an > explicitly configured data node in should take precedence over > system generated config, but there might be cases where this doesn't make > sense, and perhaps there might be cases where the data model recommends > different behaviour. >=20 > - I would assume that there is only a single datastore. I'= m > not sure whether NMDA explicitly requires this, but we couldn't think of > any scenario where multiple operational datastores would be helpful. >=20 > Thanks, > Rob >=20 >=20 > > -----Original Message----- > > From: Teas On Behalf Of Italo Busi > > Sent: 18 June 2019 18:24 > > To: Juergen Schoenwaelder > > Cc: netmod@ietf.org; Tarek Saad ; Andy Bierman > > ; teas@ietf.org > > Subject: Re: [Teas] [netmod] Key collision between configured and > > ephemeral list entries > > > > Hi Juergen, > > > > What is the DS architecture you have in mind with multiple client > > creating entries? > > > > Are the two clients creating entries in the same DS or in > > two different DS? > > > > In the latter case, the two clients could also rely on different > > DS and therefore can assign the same name to different > > entries (since they will be instantiated in different DS). There is no > > need for them to avoid name clash > > > > In the former case, a name clash would cause one client to override > > the configuration of another client > > > > Are the two clients aware of each other? > > > > I take the opportunity to clarify one point (not sure I have been > > clear about it). I do not think we need to define any rule which is > > enforced by the server to avoid name clashes since the server cannot > > understand whether the name clash is intentional or not. I think we > > just need to define some known/common/standard rules that allow the > > client(s) to avoid creating unintended name clashes. > > > > Thanks, Italo > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: Juergen Schoenwaelder > > [mailto:j.schoenwaelder@jacobs-university.de] > > Sent: marted=EC 11 giugno 2019 20:37 > > To: Italo Busi > > Cc: Andy Bierman ; teas@ietf.org; Tarek Saad > > ; netmod@ietf.org > > Subject: Re: [netmod] [Teas] Key collision between configured and > > ephemeral list entries > > > > On Tue, Jun 11, 2019 at 05:43:27PM +0000, Italo Busi wrote: > > > > > [Italo Busi] If the client knows the prefix used by the server, it > > > can pick up a different prefix and use it to tag its own entries. I > > > think this rule is not really complex and it seems much simpler than > > > managing unintended name clashes > > > > A prefix only helps a little. Once you have multiple clients creating > > entries, you will have to handle collisions again. Sometimes solving > > the more general case leads to solutions that also work nicely in > > simpler special cases. > > > > /js > > > > -- > > Juergen Schoenwaelder Jacobs University Bremen gGmbH > > Phone: +49 421 200 3587 Campus Ring 1 | 28759 Bremen | Germany > > Fax: +49 421 200 3103 > > > > _______________________________________________ > > Teas mailing list > > Teas@ietf.org > > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/teas From nobody Wed Jun 19 20:39:54 2019 Return-Path: <0100016b72f8144d-4db21faf-b6bc-4519-b63e-bb5a2d139ae4-000000@amazonses.watsen.net> X-Original-To: netmod@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: netmod@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id DDCD6120221 for ; Wed, 19 Jun 2019 20:39:52 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.897 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.897 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_NONE=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (1024-bit key) header.d=amazonses.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id TERk0S89j1Cr for ; Wed, 19 Jun 2019 20:39:51 -0700 (PDT) Received: from a8-96.smtp-out.amazonses.com (a8-96.smtp-out.amazonses.com [54.240.8.96]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id E1081120180 for ; Wed, 19 Jun 2019 20:39:50 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; q=dns/txt; c=relaxed/simple; s=6gbrjpgwjskckoa6a5zn6fwqkn67xbtw; d=amazonses.com; t=1561001989; h=From:Message-Id:Content-Type:Mime-Version:Subject:Date:In-Reply-To:Cc:To:References:Feedback-ID; bh=uki+5zb+kyu6dsvpkYJDPkEjJRNpGZ+i8SLms5KPkpE=; b=ha3nEAwZXzwqGqxa+iQyJgNkIfdwBGdWERnCcI9W6P0Kv0VhC+TWFabRO6RFefTF Xw1le9O65ahogvNiXPFm3SeMdhtJdO9sdV2vWdjCHexDKB7K0VmoiG+Tw216enc6LpN j0vOSLGakjKO5h0Z1WXeMY9d7abqCIAPxfLAmwLo= From: Kent Watsen Message-ID: <0100016b72f8144d-4db21faf-b6bc-4519-b63e-bb5a2d139ae4-000000@email.amazonses.com> Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="Apple-Mail=_6AF2869E-A47A-4891-AD71-2DE1638B2FBF" Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 12.4 \(3445.104.11\)) Date: Thu, 20 Jun 2019 03:39:49 +0000 In-Reply-To: Cc: "netmod@ietf.org" , ARTURO MAYORAL LOPEZ DE LERMA , Italo Busi , "Sethuraman, Karthik" To: Ramon Casellas References: X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.3445.104.11) X-SES-Outgoing: 2019.06.20-54.240.8.96 Feedback-ID: 1.us-east-1.DKmIRZFhhsBhtmFMNikgwZUWVrODEw9qVcPhqJEI2DA=:AmazonSES Archived-At: Subject: Re: [netmod] Question on RESTCONF / Yang list creation without key value X-BeenThere: netmod@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: NETMOD WG list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 20 Jun 2019 03:39:53 -0000 --Apple-Mail=_6AF2869E-A47A-4891-AD71-2DE1638B2FBF Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii > On Jun 19, 2019, at 2:37 AM, Ramon Casellas = wrote: >=20 > Dear all, >=20 > Apologies if this is a FAQ, or a basic question but we have been = recently involved in using RESTCONF / YANG as a controller NBI to = request optical connections in the photonic media layer within the TAPI = framework and we have a doubt. >=20 > TL&DR: is it possible to create a list entry without specifying its = key, assuming that the server can allocate such key while processing the = request ? The expected answer is "no", because, as RFC 7950 Section 7.8.2 says: = '''the "key" statement ... MUST be present if the list represents = configuration''', and hence most tooling will expect the keys to be = present in POST operations. That said, note that the requirement is on data-at-rest and not = specifically data-on-wire, so there might be wiggle-room for a = server-allocated value to be inserted between receiving the POST request = and updating .=20 However, RFC 8040 Section 4.4.1 says "the message-body MUST contain = exactly one instance of the expected data resource. The data model for = the child tree is the subtree, as defined by YANG for the child = resource.". This puts a constraint on the data-on-wire, though the "is" = isn't RFC 2119 language and therefore the true meaning could be debated. Kent // contributor --Apple-Mail=_6AF2869E-A47A-4891-AD71-2DE1638B2FBF Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/html; charset=us-ascii

On Jun 19, 2019, at 2:37 AM, Ramon Casellas <ramon.casellas@cttc.es> wrote:

Dear = all,

Apologies if this is a FAQ, or a basic = question but we have been recently involved in using RESTCONF  / = YANG as a controller NBI to request optical connections in the photonic = media layer within the TAPI framework and we have a doubt.

TL&DR: is it possible to create a list = entry without specifying its key, assuming that the server can allocate = such key while processing the request ?

The = expected answer is "no", because, as RFC 7950 Section 7.8.2 says: '''the = "key" statement ... MUST be present if the list represents = configuration''', and hence most tooling will expect the keys to be = present in POST operations.

That said, note that the requirement is = on data-at-rest and not specifically data-on-wire, so there might be = wiggle-room for a server-allocated value to be inserted between = receiving the POST request and updating <running>. 

However, RFC 8040 = Section 4.4.1 says "the message-body MUST contain exactly one instance = of the expected data resource.  The data model for the child tree = is the subtree, as defined by YANG for the child resource.".  This = puts a constraint on the data-on-wire, though the "is" isn't RFC 2119 = language and therefore the true meaning could be debated.

Kent // = contributor

= --Apple-Mail=_6AF2869E-A47A-4891-AD71-2DE1638B2FBF-- From nobody Wed Jun 19 21:01:50 2019 Return-Path: X-Original-To: netmod@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: netmod@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 45FE712019C for ; Wed, 19 Jun 2019 21:01:48 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: 1.1 X-Spam-Level: * X-Spam-Status: No, score=1.1 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, HTML_MIME_NO_HTML_TAG=0.377, MIME_HTML_ONLY=0.723, MISSING_MIMEOLE=1.899, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=no autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id fTAG85OLrFDq for ; Wed, 19 Jun 2019 21:01:46 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mx02.puc.rediris.es (outbound4sev.lav.puc.rediris.es [130.206.19.178]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 52F4512016B for ; 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charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 Archived-At: Subject: Re: [netmod] Question on RESTCONF / Yang list creation without key value X-BeenThere: netmod@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: NETMOD WG list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 20 Jun 2019 04:01:48 -0000 PGRpdiBkaXI9J2F1dG8nPjxkaXY+PGJyPjxkaXYgY2xhc3M9ImdtYWlsX2V4dHJhIj48YnI+PGRp diBjbGFzcz0iZ21haWxfcXVvdGUiPk9uIEp1biAyMCwgMjAxOSA1OjM5IEFNLCBLZW50IFdhdHNl biAmbHQ7a2VudEB3YXRzZW4ubmV0Jmd0OyB3cm90ZTo8YnIgdHlwZT0iYXR0cmlidXRpb24iPjxi bG9ja3F1b3RlIGNsYXNzPSJxdW90ZSIgc3R5bGU9Im1hcmdpbjowIDAgMCAuOGV4O2JvcmRlci1s ZWZ0OjFweCAjY2NjIHNvbGlkO3BhZGRpbmctbGVmdDoxZXgiPjxkaXYgc3R5bGU9IndvcmQtd3Jh cDpicmVhay13b3JkIj48YnI+PGRpdj48YnI+PGJsb2NrcXVvdGU+PGRpdj5PbiBKdW4gMTksIDIw MTksIGF0IDI6MzcgQU0sIFJhbW9uIENhc2VsbGFzICZsdDs8YSBocmVmPSJtYWlsdG86cmFtb24u Y2FzZWxsYXNAY3R0Yy5lcyI+cmFtb24uY2FzZWxsYXNAY3R0Yy5lczwvYT4mZ3Q7IHdyb3RlOjwv ZGl2PjxkaXY+PGRpdj48YnI+PGJyPlRMJmFtcDtEUjogaXMgaXQgcG9zc2libGUgdG8gY3JlYXRl IGEgbGlzdCBlbnRyeSB3aXRob3V0IHNwZWNpZnlpbmcgaXRzIGtleSwgYXNzdW1pbmcgdGhhdCB0 aGUgc2VydmVyIGNhbiBhbGxvY2F0ZSBzdWNoIGtleSB3aGlsZSBwcm9jZXNzaW5nIHRoZSByZXF1 ZXN0ID88YnI+PC9kaXY+PC9kaXY+PC9ibG9ja3F1b3RlPjxkaXY+PGJyPjwvZGl2PjxkaXY+VGhl IGV4cGVjdGVkIGFuc3dlciBpcyAibm8iLCBiZWNhdXNlLCBhcyBSRkMgNzk1MCBTZWN0aW9uIDcu OC4yIHNheXM6ICcnJ3RoZSAia2V5IiBzdGF0ZW1lbnQgLi4uIE1VU1QgYmUgcHJlc2VudCBpZiB0 aGUgbGlzdCByZXByZXNlbnRzIGNvbmZpZ3VyYXRpb24nJycsIGFuZCBoZW5jZSBtb3N0IHRvb2xp bmcgd2lsbCBleHBlY3QgdGhlIGtleXMgdG8gYmUgcHJlc2VudCBpbiBQT1NUIG9wZXJhdGlvbnMu PC9kaXY+PGRpdj48ZGl2PjwvZGl2PjwvZGl2PjwvZGl2PjwvZGl2PjwvYmxvY2txdW90ZT48L2Rp dj48L2Rpdj48L2Rpdj48ZGl2IGRpcj0iYXV0byI+PGJyPjwvZGl2PjxkaXYgZGlyPSJhdXRvIj5I aSBLZW50PC9kaXY+PGRpdiBkaXI9ImF1dG8iPjxicj48L2Rpdj48ZGl2IGRpcj0iYXV0byI+SSBz ZWUgeW91ciBwb2ludCwgaS5lLiwgY29uY2VybmluZyB0b29scywgYnV0IElNSE8gdGhhdCBSRkMg c2VudGVuY2UgcmVmZXJzIHRvIHRoZSBZYW5nIGRhdGEgbW9kZWwgaXRzZWxmLCBhbmQgdGhlIGxp c3QgZG9lcyBjb250YWluIGEga2V5IHN0YXRlbWVudC4mbmJzcDs8L2Rpdj48ZGl2IGRpcj0iYXV0 byI+PGRpdiBjbGFzcz0iZ21haWxfZXh0cmEiPjxkaXYgY2xhc3M9ImdtYWlsX3F1b3RlIj48Ymxv Y2txdW90ZSBjbGFzcz0icXVvdGUiIHN0eWxlPSJtYXJnaW46MCAwIDAgLjhleDtib3JkZXItbGVm dDoxcHggI2NjYyBzb2xpZDtwYWRkaW5nLWxlZnQ6MWV4Ij48ZGl2IHN0eWxlPSJ3b3JkLXdyYXA6 YnJlYWstd29yZCI+PGRpdiBkaXI9ImF1dG8iPjxicj48L2Rpdj48ZGl2IGRpcj0iYXV0byI+PGJy PjwvZGl2PjxkaXYgZGlyPSJhdXRvIj5Ib3dldmVyLCBSRkMgODA0MCBTZWN0aW9uIDQuNC4xIHNh eXMgInRoZSBtZXNzYWdlLWJvZHkgTVVTVCBjb250YWluIGV4YWN0bHkgb25lIGluc3RhbmNlIG9m IHRoZSBleHBlY3RlZCBkYXRhIHJlc291cmNlLiA8L2Rpdj48L2Rpdj48L2Jsb2NrcXVvdGU+PC9k aXY+PC9kaXY+PC9kaXY+PGRpdiBkaXI9ImF1dG8iPjxicj48L2Rpdj48ZGl2IGRpcj0iYXV0byI+ PGJyPjwvZGl2PjxkaXYgZGlyPSJhdXRvIj5PbiB0aGUgb3RoZXIgaGFuZCwgdGhpcyBzZWVtcyZu YnNwOyB0byBjbGVhcmx5IGltcGx5IHRoYXQgbGFja2luZyB0aGUga2V5IC8gdXVpZCwgdGhlIHBv c3QgbWVzc2FnZSZuYnNwOyBkb2VzIG5vdCBjb250YWluIGEgZnVsbHkgY29uc3RydWN0ZWQgaW5z dGFuY2Ugb2YgdGhlIGRhdGEgcmVzb3VyY2UuPC9kaXY+PGRpdiBkaXI9ImF1dG8iPjxicj48L2Rp dj48ZGl2IGRpcj0iYXV0byI+VGhhbmtzPC9kaXY+PGRpdiBkaXI9ImF1dG8iPlI8L2Rpdj48L2Rp dj4= From nobody Thu Jun 20 06:03:27 2019 Return-Path: X-Original-To: netmod@ietf.org Delivered-To: netmod@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from ietfa.amsl.com (localhost [IPv6:::1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id DCEAD120041; Thu, 20 Jun 2019 06:03:25 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: internet-drafts@ietf.org To: Cc: netmod@ietf.org X-Test-IDTracker: no X-IETF-IDTracker: 6.98.0 Auto-Submitted: auto-generated Precedence: bulk Reply-To: netmod@ietf.org Message-ID: <156103580586.3118.4581112081528143968@ietfa.amsl.com> Date: Thu, 20 Jun 2019 06:03:25 -0700 Archived-At: Subject: [netmod] I-D Action: draft-ietf-netmod-artwork-folding-05.txt X-BeenThere: netmod@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 List-Id: NETMOD WG list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 20 Jun 2019 13:03:26 -0000 A New Internet-Draft is available from the on-line Internet-Drafts directories. This draft is a work item of the Network Modeling WG of the IETF. Title : Handling Long Lines in Inclusions in Internet-Drafts and RFCs Authors : Kent Watsen Adrian Farrel Qin Wu Filename : draft-ietf-netmod-artwork-folding-05.txt Pages : 26 Date : 2019-06-20 Abstract: This document defines two strategies for handling long lines in width-bounded text content. One strategy is based on the historic use of a single backslash ('\') character to indicate where line- folding has occurred, with the continuation occurring with the first non-space (' ') character on the next line. The second strategy extends the first strategy by adding a second backslash character to identify where the continuation begins and thereby able to handle cases not supported by the first strategy. Both strategies use a self-describing header enabling automated reconstitution of the original content. The IETF datatracker status page for this draft is: https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-netmod-artwork-folding/ There are also htmlized versions available at: https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-netmod-artwork-folding-05 https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/html/draft-ietf-netmod-artwork-folding-05 A diff from the previous version is available at: https://www.ietf.org/rfcdiff?url2=draft-ietf-netmod-artwork-folding-05 Please note that it may take a couple of minutes from the time of submission until the htmlized version and diff are available at tools.ietf.org. Internet-Drafts are also available by anonymous FTP at: ftp://ftp.ietf.org/internet-drafts/ From nobody Thu Jun 20 06:07:17 2019 Return-Path: <0100016b74ff8507-2337966b-5eab-4dba-9c95-1ffbd94197da-000000@amazonses.watsen.net> X-Original-To: netmod@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: netmod@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id E0B5A12000E for ; Thu, 20 Jun 2019 06:07:14 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.897 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.897 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_NONE=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (1024-bit key) header.d=amazonses.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id FwU0Kh7a_0mg for ; Thu, 20 Jun 2019 06:07:13 -0700 (PDT) Received: from a8-64.smtp-out.amazonses.com (a8-64.smtp-out.amazonses.com [54.240.8.64]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id B93AC120041 for ; Thu, 20 Jun 2019 06:07:12 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; q=dns/txt; c=relaxed/simple; s=6gbrjpgwjskckoa6a5zn6fwqkn67xbtw; d=amazonses.com; t=1561036031; h=From:Content-Type:Mime-Version:Subject:Date:References:To:In-Reply-To:Message-Id:Feedback-ID; bh=0FiDPVFR2GbnpvTXjAdJmFQmBOOwfHOgSIsH3h8spaM=; b=aMPBIldMZC3PGGWDHrzdHJFo059M2B0JLb1wa4hSzg5BRyQDH4lOPA9+zRFZgob6 xKjVPE1jQCBFPpZudaR5iApRinDDhFJH9NunfGJaUhev8NCTY1BpIEVx/NRHUxue/Ao NW1ifgNjoJ+XqpFzN1vh9UOgGgvk7QMFA5dHGYu0= From: Kent Watsen Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="Apple-Mail=_A3913CA4-DD46-4327-8307-CA028A40E991" Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 12.4 \(3445.104.11\)) Date: Thu, 20 Jun 2019 13:07:11 +0000 References: <156103580586.3118.4581112081528143968@ietfa.amsl.com> To: "netmod@ietf.org" In-Reply-To: <156103580586.3118.4581112081528143968@ietfa.amsl.com> Message-ID: <0100016b74ff8507-2337966b-5eab-4dba-9c95-1ffbd94197da-000000@email.amazonses.com> X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.3445.104.11) X-SES-Outgoing: 2019.06.20-54.240.8.64 Feedback-ID: 1.us-east-1.DKmIRZFhhsBhtmFMNikgwZUWVrODEw9qVcPhqJEI2DA=:AmazonSES Archived-At: Subject: Re: [netmod] I-D Action: draft-ietf-netmod-artwork-folding-05.txt X-BeenThere: netmod@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: NETMOD WG list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 20 Jun 2019 13:07:15 -0000 --Apple-Mail=_A3913CA4-DD46-4327-8307-CA028A40E991 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii This update incorporates Adrian's suggestion from the 17th. There are no pending changes. Publication may proceed as the chairs see = fit. Kent // author=20 > On Jun 20, 2019, at 9:03 AM, internet-drafts@ietf.org wrote: >=20 >=20 > A New Internet-Draft is available from the on-line Internet-Drafts = directories. > This draft is a work item of the Network Modeling WG of the IETF. >=20 > Title : Handling Long Lines in Inclusions in = Internet-Drafts and RFCs > Authors : Kent Watsen > Adrian Farrel > Qin Wu > Filename : draft-ietf-netmod-artwork-folding-05.txt > Pages : 26 > Date : 2019-06-20 >=20 > Abstract: > This document defines two strategies for handling long lines in > width-bounded text content. One strategy is based on the historic > use of a single backslash ('\') character to indicate where line- > folding has occurred, with the continuation occurring with the first > non-space (' ') character on the next line. The second strategy > extends the first strategy by adding a second backslash character to > identify where the continuation begins and thereby able to handle > cases not supported by the first strategy. Both strategies use a > self-describing header enabling automated reconstitution of the > original content. >=20 >=20 > The IETF datatracker status page for this draft is: > https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-netmod-artwork-folding/ >=20 > There are also htmlized versions available at: > https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-netmod-artwork-folding-05 > = https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/html/draft-ietf-netmod-artwork-folding-05= >=20 > A diff from the previous version is available at: > https://www.ietf.org/rfcdiff?url2=3Ddraft-ietf-netmod-artwork-folding-05= >=20 >=20 > Please note that it may take a couple of minutes from the time of = submission > until the htmlized version and diff are available at tools.ietf.org. >=20 > Internet-Drafts are also available by anonymous FTP at: > ftp://ftp.ietf.org/internet-drafts/ >=20 > _______________________________________________ > netmod mailing list > netmod@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/netmod --Apple-Mail=_A3913CA4-DD46-4327-8307-CA028A40E991 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/html; charset=us-ascii This = update incorporates Adrian's suggestion from the 17th.

There are no pending changes. =  Publication may proceed as the chairs see fit.

Kent // = author 


On Jun 20, 2019, at 9:03 AM, internet-drafts@ietf.org wrote:


A New Internet-Draft is available from the on-line = Internet-Drafts directories.
This draft is a work item of = the Network Modeling WG of the IETF.

=        Title =           : Handling = Long Lines in Inclusions in Internet-Drafts and RFCs
=        Authors =         : Kent Watsen
=             &n= bsp;           &nbs= p;Adrian Farrel
=             &n= bsp;           &nbs= p;Qin Wu
Filename =        : = draft-ietf-netmod-artwork-folding-05.txt
Pages =           : 26
= Date =            : = 2019-06-20

Abstract:
=   This document defines two strategies for handling long lines = in
  width-bounded text content.  One = strategy is based on the historic
  use of a = single backslash ('\') character to indicate where line-
=   folding has occurred, with the continuation occurring with = the first
  non-space (' ') character on the = next line.  The second strategy
  extends = the first strategy by adding a second backslash character to
  identify where the continuation begins and = thereby able to handle
  cases not supported by = the first strategy.  Both strategies use a
=   self-describing header enabling automated reconstitution of = the
  original content.


The IETF datatracker status page for this = draft is:
https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-netmod-artwork-fold= ing/

There are also htmlized versions = available at:
https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-netmod-artwork-folding-0= 5
https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/html/draft-ietf-netmod-artwork= -folding-05

A diff from the previous = version is available at:
https://www.ietf.org/rfcdiff?url2=3Ddraft-ietf-netmod-artwork-f= olding-05


Please note that = it may take a couple of minutes from the time of submission
until the htmlized version and diff are available at = tools.ietf.org.

Internet-Drafts are also = available by anonymous FTP at:
ftp://ftp.ietf.org/internet-drafts/

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= --Apple-Mail=_A3913CA4-DD46-4327-8307-CA028A40E991-- From nobody Thu Jun 20 06:41:45 2019 Return-Path: X-Original-To: netmod@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: netmod@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7994F120045 for ; Thu, 20 Jun 2019 06:41:43 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.597 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.597 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW=-0.7, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_NONE=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id L2lhYsErDmyj for ; Thu, 20 Jun 2019 06:41:40 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mta8.iomartmail.com (mta8.iomartmail.com [62.128.193.158]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 8FCF712002E for ; Thu, 20 Jun 2019 06:41:40 -0700 (PDT) Received: from vs1.iomartmail.com (vs1.iomartmail.com [10.12.10.121]) by mta8.iomartmail.com (8.14.4/8.14.4) with ESMTP id x5KDfcTN019355; Thu, 20 Jun 2019 14:41:38 +0100 Received: from vs1.iomartmail.com (unknown [127.0.0.1]) by IMSVA (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4320222040; Thu, 20 Jun 2019 14:41:38 +0100 (BST) Received: from asmtp3.iomartmail.com (unknown [10.12.10.224]) by vs1.iomartmail.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 377AA2203C; Thu, 20 Jun 2019 14:41:38 +0100 (BST) Received: from LAPTOPK7AS653V (25.129.51.84.dyn.plus.net [84.51.129.25] (may be forged)) (authenticated bits=0) by asmtp3.iomartmail.com (8.14.4/8.14.4) with ESMTP id x5KDfYVN002840 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 bits=256 verify=NO); Thu, 20 Jun 2019 14:41:37 +0100 Reply-To: From: "Adrian Farrel" To: "'Kent Watsen'" , References: <156103580586.3118.4581112081528143968@ietfa.amsl.com> <0100016b74ff8507-2337966b-5eab-4dba-9c95-1ffbd94197da-000000@email.amazonses.com> In-Reply-To: <0100016b74ff8507-2337966b-5eab-4dba-9c95-1ffbd94197da-000000@email.amazonses.com> Date: Thu, 20 Jun 2019 14:41:33 +0100 Organization: Old Dog Consulting Message-ID: <002101d5276d$e1580be0$a40823a0$@olddog.co.uk> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0022_01D52776.431DFA80" X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook 16.0 Thread-Index: AQIcHq6UO9IstiPjjqk1+TCWxmRyuwKw5YjFpgEXAyA= Content-Language: en-gb X-Originating-IP: 84.51.129.25 X-Thinkmail-Auth: adrian@olddog.co.uk X-TM-AS-GCONF: 00 X-TM-AS-Product-Ver: IMSVA-9.0.0.1623-8.2.0.1013-24696.004 X-TM-AS-Result: No--23.870-10.0-31-10 X-imss-scan-details: No--23.870-10.0-31-10 X-TMASE-Version: IMSVA-9.0.0.1623-8.2.1013-24696.004 X-TMASE-Result: 10--23.869700-10.000000 X-TMASE-MatchedRID: B0+RG8xpjtRor4mPA3EMtnFPUrVDm6jtekMgTOQbVFts98Z8fG/6kVEt MRGFGDWDVjc7mmmeO8bcixbwa0CYj2MFwILfD7YgWqDLIdGEwFK7xmCZDXrutSNGK7UC7ElMyta xCgLYiHEY8ef/dkghcL8N+jdgwRZCnqTPRq8d7GOcxB01DrjF91F5adRR2Ej1neWzvt1s9oidJY S4rHLiE2NPrj3VfDXYehcqDEKDFqlZ/DZb0mfFpn3O3F/Nshx5Q5p+5M7krilYbPLopoBzQk94x 7SClcJ9XsmvzhvzKhTjoDDy9AQPAW2VJqCRBdqhh4xZ8LCgzAxU8FDDfs3h4M1YMD+2TGH/PmXs b+XRwCoupR2IAWf0k1pBcJkAx70ai4F4IRlS0JIVwr9AY0ZEvald1ZriBTRL2ttaKffzrd+yZz4 fMPkeaISKNW9jf4Q04bN1uxHs49hzJ3Cc/dTPscf0rZmodBaW31asM/gsp2mpVUR0SvYtSsxFQx p3PhHymoRv4vCWtWO3WBVXyEWl0u84LVBXtoHOWcC0gYMYIWj54F/2i/DwjSPS9JdK3W4/bgY8Q wl4o87lS2BlJV0Y0lfuIRg3vVpGFKSQtYPsb9ckO5bN+/P8x1bhh5oWzvpajhXoLvt+eMupFkuo LGicpI0ogGHrw9oBvi6EqsH0DOvIbcV1dkIKk4vptQwz5tsi8kp9oxB/3WWSAuAjv0tF/ixZV2X dhwOwqu/ODjMLPZWCiGs4uOTQtnH0SatXLU38DrDTQZ5YEVp9LQinZ4QefK9dKZJ2VxiayeMtMD 9QOgCcvwj3ddqeiZrSTaF7k3C4KzfM9B6IRt5FGCd0S0NCsoJS4jaep0vIWKDewIDreyZbeVWVt 1CX80RRaoozpTjo66XHIc5w+gc= X-TMASE-SNAP-Result: 1.821001.0001-0-1-12:0,22:0,33:0,34:0-0 Archived-At: Subject: Re: [netmod] I-D Action: draft-ietf-netmod-artwork-folding-05.txt X-BeenThere: netmod@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: NETMOD WG list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 20 Jun 2019 13:41:44 -0000 This is a multipart message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0022_01D52776.431DFA80 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Thanks Kent. Good change. I also think this is now ready to proceed. Adrian From: netmod On Behalf Of Kent Watsen Sent: 20 June 2019 14:07 To: netmod@ietf.org Subject: Re: [netmod] I-D Action: draft-ietf-netmod-artwork-folding-05.txt This update incorporates Adrian's suggestion from the 17th. There are no pending changes. Publication may proceed as the chairs see fit. Kent // author On Jun 20, 2019, at 9:03 AM, internet-drafts@ietf.org wrote: A New Internet-Draft is available from the on-line Internet-Drafts directories. This draft is a work item of the Network Modeling WG of the IETF. Title : Handling Long Lines in Inclusions in Internet-Drafts and RFCs Authors : Kent Watsen Adrian Farrel Qin Wu Filename : draft-ietf-netmod-artwork-folding-05.txt Pages : 26 Date : 2019-06-20 Abstract: This document defines two strategies for handling long lines in width-bounded text content. One strategy is based on the historic use of a single backslash ('\') character to indicate where line- folding has occurred, with the continuation occurring with the first non-space (' ') character on the next line. The second strategy extends the first strategy by adding a second backslash character to identify where the continuation begins and thereby able to handle cases not supported by the first strategy. Both strategies use a self-describing header enabling automated reconstitution of the original content. The IETF datatracker status page for this draft is: https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-netmod-artwork-folding/ There are also htmlized versions available at: https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-netmod-artwork-folding-05 https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/html/draft-ietf-netmod-artwork-folding-05 A diff from the previous version is available at: https://www.ietf.org/rfcdiff?url2=draft-ietf-netmod-artwork-folding-05 Please note that it may take a couple of minutes from the time of submission until the htmlized version and diff are available at tools.ietf.org. Internet-Drafts are also available by anonymous FTP at: ftp://ftp.ietf.org/internet-drafts/ _______________________________________________ netmod mailing list netmod@ietf.org https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/netmod ------=_NextPart_000_0022_01D52776.431DFA80 Content-Type: text/html; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

Thanks = Kent.

 

Good = change. I also think this is now ready to = proceed.

 

Adrian

 

From: netmod = <netmod-bounces@ietf.org> On Behalf Of Kent = Watsen
Sent: 20 June 2019 14:07
To: = netmod@ietf.org
Subject: Re: [netmod] I-D Action: = draft-ietf-netmod-artwork-folding-05.txt

 

This = update incorporates Adrian's suggestion from the = 17th.

 

There are no pending changes.  Publication may = proceed as the chairs see fit.

 

Kent // author 

 

 



On Jun 20, 2019, at 9:03 AM, internet-drafts@ietf.org = wrote:

 


A New Internet-Draft is available from the on-line = Internet-Drafts directories.
This draft is a work item of the Network = Modeling WG of the = IETF.

       Title =           : Handling = Long Lines in Inclusions in Internet-Drafts and = RFCs
       Authors =         : Kent = Watsen
          &nb= sp;           &nbs= p;  Adrian = Farrel
          &nb= sp;           &nbs= p;  Qin Wu
        &n= bsp;      Filename =        : = draft-ietf-netmod-artwork-folding-05.txt
        &n= bsp;      Pages =           : = 26
        &n= bsp;      Date =            : = 2019-06-20

Abstract:
  This document defines two = strategies for handling long lines in
  width-bounded text = content.  One strategy is based on the historic
  use = of a single backslash ('\') character to indicate where = line-
  folding has occurred, with the continuation = occurring with the first
  non-space (' ') character on the = next line.  The second strategy
  extends the first = strategy by adding a second backslash character = to
  identify where the continuation begins and thereby = able to handle
  cases not supported by the first strategy. =  Both strategies use a
  self-describing header = enabling automated reconstitution of the
  original = content.


The IETF datatracker status page for this draft = is:
https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-netmod-artwork-folding/

There are also htmlized versions available = at:
https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-netmod-artwork-folding-05https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/html/draft-ietf-netmod-artwork-folding= -05

A diff from the previous version is available = at:
https://www.ietf.org/rfcdiff?url2=3Ddraft-ietf-netmod-artwork-fold= ing-05


Please note that it may take a couple of minutes from = the time of submission
until the htmlized version and diff are = available at tools.ietf.org.

Internet-Drafts are also available = by anonymous FTP = at:
ftp://ftp.ietf.org/internet-drafts/

_______________________= ________________________
netmod mailing = list
netmod@ietf.org
https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/netmod

 

------=_NextPart_000_0022_01D52776.431DFA80-- From nobody Sat Jun 22 11:51:02 2019 Return-Path: X-Original-To: netmod@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: netmod@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id DF3C1120134 for ; Sat, 22 Jun 2019 11:50:59 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -4.201 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-4.201 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-2.3, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id UKdei4uLdFGZ for ; Sat, 22 Jun 2019 11:50:58 -0700 (PDT) Received: from rfc-editor.org (rfc-editor.org [4.31.198.49]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher AECDH-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 159141200E6 for ; Sat, 22 Jun 2019 11:50:58 -0700 (PDT) Received: by rfc-editor.org (Postfix, from userid 30) id 26245B82153; Sat, 22 Jun 2019 11:50:34 -0700 (PDT) To: phil@juniper.net, ibagdona@gmail.com, warren@kumari.net, joelja@bogus.com, kent+ietf@watsen.net, lberger@labn.net X-PHP-Originating-Script: 30:errata_mail_lib.php From: RFC Errata System Cc: polisetty_ram@yahoo.com, netmod@ietf.org, rfc-editor@rfc-editor.org Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Message-Id: <20190622185034.26245B82153@rfc-editor.org> Date: Sat, 22 Jun 2019 11:50:34 -0700 (PDT) Archived-At: Subject: [netmod] [Editorial Errata Reported] RFC6244 (5760) X-BeenThere: netmod@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: NETMOD WG list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sat, 22 Jun 2019 18:51:00 -0000 The following errata report has been submitted for RFC6244, "An Architecture for Network Management Using NETCONF and YANG". -------------------------------------- You may review the report below and at: https://www.rfc-editor.org/errata/eid5760 -------------------------------------- Type: Editorial Reported by: Ram Polisetty Section: 2.1 Original Text ------------- configuration datastore where configuration changes can be made that will not affect the device until a "commit-configuration" operation is invoked. Corrected Text -------------- configuration datastore where configuration changes can be made that will not affect the device until a "" operation is invoked. Notes ----- Netconf RPC for commit-configuration is Instructions: ------------- This erratum is currently posted as "Reported". If necessary, please use "Reply All" to discuss whether it should be verified or rejected. When a decision is reached, the verifying party can log in to change the status and edit the report, if necessary. -------------------------------------- RFC6244 (draft-ietf-netmod-arch-10) -------------------------------------- Title : An Architecture for Network Management Using NETCONF and YANG Publication Date : June 2011 Author(s) : P. Shafer Category : INFORMATIONAL Source : Network Modeling Area : Operations and Management Stream : IETF Verifying Party : IESG From nobody Sun Jun 23 20:55:45 2019 Return-Path: X-Original-To: netmod@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: netmod@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id AAECA12027D; Sun, 23 Jun 2019 20:55:44 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -4.998 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-4.998 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[RCVD_IN_DNSWL_HI=-5, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_NONE=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id Ms8eDQrCT_z7; Sun, 23 Jun 2019 20:55:43 -0700 (PDT) Received: from nagasaki.bogus.com (nagasaki.bogus.com [IPv6:2001:418:1::81]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 5332112008B; 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Intel Mac OS X 10.14; rv:60.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/60.7.2 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/signed; micalg=pgp-sha1; protocol="application/pgp-signature"; boundary="GDCKo7Pp2RiXnQNtfRCh972vxWZHIOsSf" Archived-At: Subject: [netmod] ietf 105 prelimary agenda - netmod X-BeenThere: netmod@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: NETMOD WG list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 24 Jun 2019 03:55:45 -0000 This is an OpenPGP/MIME signed message (RFC 4880 and 3156) --GDCKo7Pp2RiXnQNtfRCh972vxWZHIOsSf Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="MVT53AQZJtH6ETJxseKz56Z3MmakpR02q"; protected-headers="v1" From: joel jaeggli To: NETMOD Working Group Cc: "netmod-chairs@ietf.org" Message-ID: <2a5a6016-fed7-7f78-062f-9763cc253729@bogus.com> Subject: ietf 105 prelimary agenda - netmod --MVT53AQZJtH6ETJxseKz56Z3MmakpR02q Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Language: en-US Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Folks, In the preliminary agenda NETMOD has two back to back sessions on Monday July 22, 13:30 - 15:30 and then 15:50 - 17:50. This is could be subject to change. NETCONF is also scheduled for Monday Jully 22 in the morning. It's time to start thinking about meeting submissions for netmod. The chairs had to submit a preliminary agenda in in a little more than 2 weeks on 2019-07-10. Thanks NETMOD chairs --MVT53AQZJtH6ETJxseKz56Z3MmakpR02q-- --GDCKo7Pp2RiXnQNtfRCh972vxWZHIOsSf Content-Type: application/pgp-signature; name="signature.asc" Content-Description: OpenPGP digital signature Content-Disposition: attachment; filename="signature.asc" -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Comment: GPGTools - http://gpgtools.org iF0EARECAB0WIQRcbgEEuvBAsFvTw4vwADWrtn9WsgUCXRBJtQAKCRDwADWrtn9W sk6oAJ98jfhSoBHY6GmkkoMycOtinNjzCwCfXRrSSOHzBijI45tIpqjeTkROeQw= =kTzs -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --GDCKo7Pp2RiXnQNtfRCh972vxWZHIOsSf-- From nobody Mon Jun 24 09:39:27 2019 Return-Path: X-Original-To: netmod@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: netmod@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6F1141201A0 for ; Mon, 24 Jun 2019 09:39:25 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.998 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.998 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_NONE=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (1024-bit key) header.d=cesnet.cz Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id dvNrfng1pESx for ; Mon, 24 Jun 2019 09:39:23 -0700 (PDT) Received: from kalendar.cesnet.cz (kalendar.cesnet.cz [78.128.211.34]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher AECDH-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 38D89120176 for ; Mon, 24 Jun 2019 09:39:22 -0700 (PDT) Received: by kalendar.cesnet.cz (Postfix, from userid 999) id 8160E601AE; Mon, 24 Jun 2019 18:39:18 +0200 (CEST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=cesnet.cz; s=kalendar; t=1561394358; bh=Xqt73bVzrJgEQLn5vMKTrHG2z6mVP9zwykY6QDrKJ3E=; h=To:Date:Subject:From; b=14ewadb6KNWW2C0LxNspvmcwtDI1LrSxJp7AMsOT9EtV2GDi2wOX3B+Pot8QyMlX6 qEEgC5XIy2wa5Dc6ZDHT+VJbzBaaaSZcL3J6KE0MCbtY1YtQlRKV5lsNe2B9sww9V6 uH8nz9PgFzqOewv2Pw35ISOQFc7SHCcsNoCNcMvs= Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" To: "netmod" User-Agent: SOGoMail 2.3.23 MIME-Version: 1.0 Date: Mon, 24 Jun 2019 18:39:18 +0200 Message-ID: <7797-5d10fc80-6f-35dfff00@18550372> X-Forward: 88.101.100.176 From: =?utf-8?q?Michal_Va=C5=A1ko?= Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Archived-At: Subject: [netmod] mandatory choice with non-presence container case X-BeenThere: netmod@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: NETMOD WG list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 24 Jun 2019 16:39:25 -0000 Hi, I have encountered a situation that I think is not covered by RFC 7950.= My specific use-case was as follows. model: container TOP { leaf L { type empty; } choice A { mandatory true; container C; } } data: Parsing was successful, but printing these data back to XML produced: and parsing this correctly failed with missing mandatory choice. Accord= ing to section 7.5.7 [1], I think the C container could be omitted but = the whole situation does not seem correct. Thank you for any input. Regards, Michal [1] https://tools.ietf.org/html/rfc7950#section-7.5.7 From nobody Mon Jun 24 09:52:43 2019 Return-Path: X-Original-To: netmod@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: netmod@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0C97C120645 for ; Mon, 24 Jun 2019 09:52:41 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -14.501 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-14.501 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_HI=-5, SPF_PASS=-0.001, USER_IN_DEF_DKIM_WL=-7.5] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (1024-bit key) header.d=cisco.com header.b=Is/6p4PI; dkim=pass (1024-bit key) header.d=cisco.onmicrosoft.com header.b=VZCmUDQU Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id xiMORL7wcIGf for ; 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DIR:OUT; SFP:1101; SCL:1; SRVR:BYAPR11MB3717; H:BYAPR11MB2631.namprd11.prod.outlook.com; FPR:; SPF:None; LANG:en; PTR:InfoNoRecords; MX:1; A:1; received-spf: None (protection.outlook.com: cisco.com does not designate permitted sender hosts) x-ms-exchange-senderadcheck: 1 x-microsoft-antispam-message-info: F4b7mVMefBVG1bq6ZnUc56L4Sdv7tlSWFpbYbsNKHJiRdS/FL7uD4l4yF9xq1qHn1eBfftKBHMOD0/XfwEKX0tdY8wjKXB2XsGDKK6zcr6i0Jkd02gLl0FSjaZuQDTNCm08k6pa//FjFtgUti7Nxse2O9l/QWQ7VAYTenM6fUzX7EUWCv+tADH9Mf4iSCZG945VeSW9emVU0Xpk1//SxNTFYk4AC2L8DjXXFSqXi/S+ANkyHlganS0ReYb0OX3mHGv+80b5FcbetC/NuNYX19g0aQgvBMIb9m5WblWsZMhugg8OxkFHl3zkGNt5x3+YEHA1BCVdeJKe8Vg/3tRDntGUODfIinOWwF13zY9uSJ2/L1goj1o5Chl0+7Y6SNy5QpmLixxCr7y9qE/Vc9P824kzfcsAEXL7XkP+Lk7Rodvk= Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-2" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable MIME-Version: 1.0 X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-Network-Message-Id: 2a8d6c17-bb21-429c-de68-08d6f8c45b62 X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-originalarrivaltime: 24 Jun 2019 16:52:34.8629 (UTC) X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-fromentityheader: Hosted X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-id: 5ae1af62-9505-4097-a69a-c1553ef7840e X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-mailboxtype: HOSTED X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-userprincipalname: rwilton@cisco.com X-MS-Exchange-Transport-CrossTenantHeadersStamped: BYAPR11MB3717 X-OriginatorOrg: cisco.com X-Outbound-SMTP-Client: 173.37.102.12, xch-rcd-002.cisco.com X-Outbound-Node: rcdn-core-8.cisco.com Archived-At: Subject: Re: [netmod] mandatory choice with non-presence container case X-BeenThere: netmod@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: NETMOD WG list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 24 Jun 2019 16:52:41 -0000 Hi Michal, My thoughts: According to 7.5.1: In the first style, the container has no meaning of its own, existing only to contain child nodes. In particular, the presence of the container node with no child nodes is semantically equivalent to the absence of the container node. YANG calls this style a "non-presence container". This is the default style. Hence your request (because the NP container does not have any children) is= equivalent to: which fails the "mandatory" check. Thanks, Rob > -----Original Message----- > From: netmod On Behalf Of Michal Va=B9ko > Sent: 24 June 2019 17:39 > To: netmod > Subject: [netmod] mandatory choice with non-presence container case >=20 > Hi, > I have encountered a situation that I think is not covered by RFC 7950. M= y > specific use-case was as follows. >=20 > model: >=20 > container TOP { > leaf L { > type empty; > } > choice A { > mandatory true; > container C; > } > } >=20 > data: >=20 > > > > >=20 > Parsing was successful, but printing these data back to XML produced: >=20 > > > >=20 > and parsing this correctly failed with missing mandatory choice. Accordin= g > to section 7.5.7 [1], I think the C container could be omitted but the > whole situation does not seem correct. Thank you for any input. >=20 > Regards, > Michal >=20 > [1] https://tools.ietf.org/html/rfc7950#section-7.5.7 >=20 > _______________________________________________ > netmod mailing list > netmod@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/netmod From nobody Mon Jun 24 10:01:36 2019 Return-Path: X-Original-To: netmod@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: netmod@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id AB9E012065B for ; Mon, 24 Jun 2019 10:01:34 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.998 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.998 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_NONE=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (1024-bit key) header.d=cesnet.cz Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id hFcjdxPIv5Xh for ; Mon, 24 Jun 2019 10:01:32 -0700 (PDT) Received: from kalendar.cesnet.cz (kalendar.cesnet.cz [78.128.211.34]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher AECDH-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id C5A4C12065D for ; Mon, 24 Jun 2019 10:01:31 -0700 (PDT) Received: by kalendar.cesnet.cz (Postfix, from userid 999) id 863B4601AE; Mon, 24 Jun 2019 19:01:29 +0200 (CEST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=cesnet.cz; s=kalendar; t=1561395689; bh=agw5wBkKkKwEGV/AozMTrXm9GFSy2BbN76gggdPhPRA=; h=In-Reply-To:From:Date:Cc:To:Subject; b=iEcoaFm8kfefk/GtfeuGVwgsi5vm4IS4X9ZBRjKvFwAEccr4pvuVGiQKU+612OOo8 a4Ag+ElfkP2vkgZ9KVT8JszHgzH/SiiyCAO/K4etAaClXkCx4Y56MpRrnEhCJgMZcy vC/LSwoWfNk83Tp1EkhKYn6lTLyVEMIko/BEwCRA= Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" In-Reply-To: From: =?utf-8?q?Michal_Va=C5=A1ko?= X-Forward: 88.101.100.176 Date: Mon, 24 Jun 2019 19:01:29 +0200 Cc: "netmod" To: =?utf-8?q?Rob_Wilton_=28rwilton=29?= MIME-Version: 1.0 Message-ID: <7797-5d110200-71-35dfff00@18550405> User-Agent: SOGoMail 2.3.23 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Archived-At: Subject: Re: [netmod] =?utf-8?b?Pz09P3V0Zi04P3E/ICBtYW5kYXRvcnkgY2hvaWNlIHdp?= =?utf-8?q?th_non-presence_container_case?= X-BeenThere: netmod@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: NETMOD WG list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 24 Jun 2019 17:01:35 -0000 Hi Rob, I think there is a problem in the RFC because using only allowed steps = I got invalid data from initially valid data. That cannot be correct. Regards, Michal On Monday, June 24, 2019 18:52 CEST, "Rob Wilton (rwilton)" wrote: > Hi Michal, > > My thoughts: > > According to 7.5.1: > > In the first style, the container has no meaning of its own, exist= ing > only to contain child nodes. In particular, the presence of the > container node with no child nodes is semantically equivalent to t= he > absence of the container node. YANG calls this style a "non-prese= nce > container". This is the default style. > > Hence your request (because the NP container does not have any childr= en) is equivalent to: > > > > > > which fails the "mandatory" check. > > Thanks, > Rob > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: netmod On Behalf Of Michal Va=C5=A1= ko > > Sent: 24 June 2019 17:39 > > To: netmod > > Subject: [netmod] mandatory choice with non-presence container case= > > > > Hi, > > I have encountered a situation that I think is not covered by RFC 7= 950. My > > specific use-case was as follows. > > > > model: > > > > container TOP { > > leaf L { > > type empty; > > } > > choice A { > > mandatory true; > > container C; > > } > > } > > > > data: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Parsing was successful, but printing these data back to XML produce= d: > > > > > > > > > > > > and parsing this correctly failed with missing mandatory choice. Ac= cording > > to section 7.5.7 [1], I think the C container could be omitted but = the > > whole situation does not seem correct. Thank you for any input. > > > > Regards, > > Michal > > > > [1] https://tools.ietf.org/html/rfc7950#section-7.5.7 > > > > =5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F= =5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F= > > netmod mailing list > > netmod@ietf.org > > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/netmod From nobody Mon Jun 24 10:11:57 2019 Return-Path: X-Original-To: netmod@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: netmod@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id E64DE12068A for ; Mon, 24 Jun 2019 10:11:55 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.898 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.898 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAD_ENC_HEADER=0.001, BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=yumaworks-com.20150623.gappssmtp.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id vQGiTYFhrsP8 for ; Mon, 24 Jun 2019 10:11:53 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail-lj1-x230.google.com (mail-lj1-x230.google.com [IPv6:2a00:1450:4864:20::230]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id E98C912016A for ; Mon, 24 Jun 2019 10:11:52 -0700 (PDT) Received: by mail-lj1-x230.google.com with SMTP id p17so13385324ljg.1 for ; Mon, 24 Jun 2019 10:11:52 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=yumaworks-com.20150623.gappssmtp.com; s=20150623; h=mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date:message-id:subject:to :cc; bh=1xeU2QkelHcuXzvZev+DiSTIQcv9hsHw/10tzncRFUA=; b=mutxh4g0xzDfhoqI+5jCEHaCzg2TPuW92Wzyppajhr9q9lTUxy9NgUOEL382Qa1UIn xDtWSMCPC6JSp2LbCpU1dkudaN/lK5pqE7+p9s1T/4bhCuWIJwVcrXKeyUWA38fjWpgP ZVVQSkWg5ncO6aQmKCph2SkVuRcGC65OoTGbgMepXEFN9BXuC6HrGbvbBh5wh8CWtIzj unw6pjLvJHQAXWgjBdeqopcrZbE92n7Uxk/E0i568j7w7aCd/laHmnuzuCCDM/GcApmU glsAVK9V4ycJyGGPrSDMixSKxM7AzAAIjNcBS5nY6R+iFT5ghceciErmTStlhbDy2/pj 8cbA== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date :message-id:subject:to:cc; bh=1xeU2QkelHcuXzvZev+DiSTIQcv9hsHw/10tzncRFUA=; b=O45u42BxAi2V7SgP1+miX3/ARBMz1IhfAS03zJcVNeFPW3MvIKLHworT432Q/AzjWT TjU6zITGcRgPjKtgOmP5HfIBhoRaLVtrE5Kuxq67aB8kezbGntFSZtjhcoSypibG05Jg wMSyVp7WIBKaq0gc54eDG7cxehUKPkujOGOOAuQevi6cDsKumbqmd4GGUTyXpt3VT1oD hAqG2tQWJ7laxPOasD20AVeWKJMAGB9eY68kg62fP5fWBz5QlFXIFxB1qyeIgaXhYIqU mVGfSE6ATOcE+C6yhT/j99zuEVO9OaIWLRrRN90S5GpMXWEkL04og+CCtl3+n+9Dwae0 6E3Q== X-Gm-Message-State: APjAAAVXH69EEd6v9MMhvGfrVZaaflFdDjeuWNkvymLaGvNAPGXwK7d/ bIXBN6s55ADoM/tg+Cbj62jPmLJMlJ3xX2g77Drdkg== X-Google-Smtp-Source: APXvYqz7YdBKxXYgTDJqM4QSkjA3fGKpP5TAVU02b3bsxXtWUfB2I3JkdDO8+9tBrnJNRgpkxKYo6MNkcLiQWJQ1HaU= X-Received: by 2002:a2e:b0ea:: with SMTP id h10mr20276023ljl.50.1561396310953; Mon, 24 Jun 2019 10:11:50 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 References: <7797-5d110200-71-35dfff00@18550405> In-Reply-To: <7797-5d110200-71-35dfff00@18550405> From: Andy Bierman Date: Mon, 24 Jun 2019 10:11:39 -0700 Message-ID: To: =?UTF-8?Q?Michal_Va=C5=A1ko?= Cc: "Rob Wilton (rwilton)" , netmod Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="00000000000077fabf058c14e897" Archived-At: Subject: Re: [netmod] ?==?utf-8?q? mandatory choice with non-presence container case X-BeenThere: netmod@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: NETMOD WG list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 24 Jun 2019 17:11:56 -0000 --00000000000077fabf058c14e897 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable On Mon, Jun 24, 2019 at 10:01 AM Michal Va=C5=A1ko wrote= : > Hi Rob, > I think there is a problem in the RFC because using only allowed steps I > got invalid data from initially valid data. That cannot be correct. > > No. See sec. 7.5.7 If a non-presence container does not have any child nodes, the container may or may not be present in the XML encoding. Just because your retrieval does not contain the NP-container, that does not mean the NP-container was not present in the server for the mandatory-stmt validation. Regards, > Michal > > Andy > On Monday, June 24, 2019 18:52 CEST, "Rob Wilton (rwilton)" < > rwilton@cisco.com> wrote: > > > Hi Michal, > > > > My thoughts: > > > > According to 7.5.1: > > > > In the first style, the container has no meaning of its own, existin= g > > only to contain child nodes. In particular, the presence of the > > container node with no child nodes is semantically equivalent to the > > absence of the container node. YANG calls this style a "non-presenc= e > > container". This is the default style. > > > > Hence your request (because the NP container does not have any children= ) > is equivalent to: > > > > > > > > > > > > which fails the "mandatory" check. > > > > Thanks, > > Rob > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > From: netmod On Behalf Of Michal Va=C5=A1ko > > > Sent: 24 June 2019 17:39 > > > To: netmod > > > Subject: [netmod] mandatory choice with non-presence container case > > > > > > Hi, > > > I have encountered a situation that I think is not covered by RFC > 7950. My > > > specific use-case was as follows. > > > > > > model: > > > > > > container TOP { > > > leaf L { > > > type empty; > > > } > > > choice A { > > > mandatory true; > > > container C; > > > } > > > } > > > > > > data: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Parsing was successful, but printing these data back to XML produced: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > and parsing this correctly failed with missing mandatory choice. > According > > > to section 7.5.7 [1], I think the C container could be omitted but th= e > > > whole situation does not seem correct. Thank you for any input. > > > > > > Regards, > > > Michal > > > > > > [1] https://tools.ietf.org/html/rfc7950#section-7.5.7 > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > > netmod mailing list > > > netmod@ietf.org > > > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/netmod > > > > _______________________________________________ > netmod mailing list > netmod@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/netmod > --00000000000077fabf058c14e897 Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable


=
On Mon, Jun 24, 2019 at 10:01 AM Mich= al Va=C5=A1ko <mvasko@cesnet.cz&= gt; wrote:
Hi Ro= b,
I think there is a problem in the RFC because using only allowed steps I go= t invalid data from initially valid data. That cannot be correct.


No.=C2=A0 See sec. 7.5.7
   If a non=
-presence container does not have any child nodes, the
   container may or may not be present in the XML encoding.
=C2=A0
Just because your retrieval does not contain the NP-conta= iner, that does not mean the
NP-container was not present in the = server for the mandatory-stmt validation.

Regards,
Michal


Andy
=C2=A0
On Monday, June 24, 2019 18:52 CEST, "Rob Wilton (rwilton)" <<= a href=3D"mailto:rwilton@cisco.com" target=3D"_blank">rwilton@cisco.com= > wrote:

> Hi Michal,
>
> My thoughts:
>
> According to 7.5.1:
>
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 In the first style, the container has no meaning of its o= wn, existing
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 only to contain child nodes.=C2=A0 In particular, the pre= sence of the
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 container node with no child nodes is semantically equiva= lent to the
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 absence of the container node.=C2=A0 YANG calls this styl= e a "non-presence
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 container".=C2=A0 This is the default style.
>
> Hence your request (because the NP container does not have any childre= n) is equivalent to:
>
>=C2=A0 <TOP>
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 <L/>
>=C2=A0 </TOP>
>
> which fails the "mandatory" check.
>
> Thanks,
> Rob
>
>
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: netmod <netmod-bounces@ietf.org> On Behalf Of Michal Va=C5=A1ko=
> > Sent: 24 June 2019 17:39
> > To: netmod <netmod@ietf.org>
> > Subject: [netmod] mandatory choice with non-presence container ca= se
> >
> > Hi,
> > I have encountered a situation that I think is not covered by RFC= 7950. My
> > specific use-case was as follows.
> >
> > model:
> >
> > container TOP {
> >=C2=A0 =C2=A0leaf L {
> >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0type empty;
> >=C2=A0 =C2=A0}
> >=C2=A0 =C2=A0choice A {
> >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0mandatory true;
> >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0container C;
> >=C2=A0 =C2=A0}
> > }
> >
> > data:
> >
> > <TOP>
> >=C2=A0 =C2=A0<L/>
> >=C2=A0 =C2=A0<C/>
> > </TOP>
> >
> > Parsing was successful, but printing these data back to XML produ= ced:
> >
> > <TOP>
> >=C2=A0 =C2=A0<L/>
> > </TOP>
> >
> > and parsing this correctly failed with missing mandatory choice. = According
> > to section 7.5.7 [1], I think the C container could be omitted bu= t the
> > whole situation does not seem correct. Thank you for any input. > >
> > Regards,
> > Michal
> >
> > [1] https://tools.ietf.org/html/rfc7950#s= ection-7.5.7
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > netmod mailing list
> > netmod@ietf.= org
> > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/netmod



_______________________________________________
netmod mailing list
netmod@ietf.org https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/netmod
--00000000000077fabf058c14e897-- From nobody Mon Jun 24 10:15:25 2019 Return-Path: X-Original-To: netmod@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: netmod@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id DE24612068D for ; Mon, 24 Jun 2019 10:15:23 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.998 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.998 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_NONE=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (1024-bit key) header.d=cesnet.cz Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id v1U9GhFG9omi for ; Mon, 24 Jun 2019 10:15:21 -0700 (PDT) Received: from kalendar.cesnet.cz (kalendar.cesnet.cz [78.128.211.34]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher AECDH-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 570EE120694 for ; Mon, 24 Jun 2019 10:15:21 -0700 (PDT) Received: by kalendar.cesnet.cz (Postfix, from userid 999) id 8AD34601AE; Mon, 24 Jun 2019 19:15:18 +0200 (CEST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=cesnet.cz; s=kalendar; t=1561396518; bh=77Uoac2sLLhSysKziFi+biUuLkEiNVvp4z2QwYXKh4A=; h=In-Reply-To:From:Date:Cc:To:Subject; b=Ju89/oqYJ5HJ3UGBZXpI4En2+n1hh8pMzfh9XqNri/Rtc1IIRiNKoP5pTl9yVawzy LyC/vRgkaG1bKjTksIDSYW3VVPGKeTlJCtn6U6zKzGT+te/8HYMr5XazF71a00ek7c yAMpchgYpzsEHQ3SKoh5xuJKRT/rmVJLaP6NpPfo= Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" In-Reply-To: From: =?utf-8?q?Michal_Va=C5=A1ko?= X-Forward: 88.101.100.176 Date: Mon, 24 Jun 2019 19:15:18 +0200 Cc: =?utf-8?q?Rob_Wilton_=28rwilton=29?= , "netmod" To: "Andy Bierman" MIME-Version: 1.0 Message-ID: User-Agent: SOGoMail 2.3.23 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Archived-At: Subject: Re: [netmod] =?utf-8?b?Pz09P3V0Zi04P3E/ID89PT91dGYtOD9xPyA/PSAgbWFu?= =?utf-8?q?datory_choice_with_non-presence_container_cas?= X-BeenThere: netmod@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: NETMOD WG list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 24 Jun 2019 17:15:24 -0000 Hi Andy, On Monday, June 24, 2019 19:11 CEST, Andy Bierman = wrote: > On Mon, Jun 24, 2019 at 10:01 AM Michal Va=C5=A1ko = wrote: > > > Hi Rob, > > I think there is a problem in the RFC because using only allowed st= eps I > > got invalid data from initially valid data. That cannot be correct.= > > > > > No. See sec. 7.5.7 > > If a non-presence container does not have any child nodes, the > container may or may not be present in the XML encoding. > > > Just because your retrieval does not contain the NP-container, that d= oes > not mean the > NP-container was not present in the server for the mandatory-stmt > validation. I agree, but these valid data were correctly printed into invalid data.= I do not think printing is allowed to change the validity of data. Michal > > Regards, > > Michal > > > > > Andy > > > > On Monday, June 24, 2019 18:52 CEST, "Rob Wilton (rwilton)" < > > rwilton@cisco.com> wrote: > > > > > Hi Michal, > > > > > > My thoughts: > > > > > > According to 7.5.1: > > > > > > In the first style, the container has no meaning of its own, e= xisting > > > only to contain child nodes. In particular, the presence of t= he > > > container node with no child nodes is semantically equivalent = to the > > > absence of the container node. YANG calls this style a "non-p= resence > > > container". This is the default style. > > > > > > Hence your request (because the NP container does not have any ch= ildren) > > is equivalent to: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > which fails the "mandatory" check. > > > > > > Thanks, > > > Rob > > > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > > From: netmod On Behalf Of Michal Va=C5= =A1ko > > > > Sent: 24 June 2019 17:39 > > > > To: netmod > > > > Subject: [netmod] mandatory choice with non-presence container = case > > > > > > > > Hi, > > > > I have encountered a situation that I think is not covered by R= FC > > 7950. My > > > > specific use-case was as follows. > > > > > > > > model: > > > > > > > > container TOP { > > > > leaf L { > > > > type empty; > > > > } > > > > choice A { > > > > mandatory true; > > > > container C; > > > > } > > > > } > > > > > > > > data: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Parsing was successful, but printing these data back to XML pro= duced: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > and parsing this correctly failed with missing mandatory choice= . > > According > > > > to section 7.5.7 [1], I think the C container could be omitted = but the > > > > whole situation does not seem correct. Thank you for any input.= > > > > > > > > Regards, > > > > Michal > > > > > > > > [1] https://tools.ietf.org/html/rfc7950#section-7.5.7 > > > > > > > > =5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F= =5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F= =5F=5F > > > > netmod mailing list > > > > netmod@ietf.org > > > > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/netmod > > > > > > > > =5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F= =5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F= > > netmod mailing list > > netmod@ietf.org > > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/netmod > > From nobody Mon Jun 24 17:55:17 2019 Return-Path: X-Original-To: netmod@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: netmod@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 42EAB12004D for ; Mon, 24 Jun 2019 17:55:15 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO 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14.3.408.0; Tue, 25 Jun 2019 01:55:07 +0100 Received: from lhreml709-chm.china.huawei.com (10.201.108.58) by lhreml709-chm.china.huawei.com (10.201.108.58) with Microsoft SMTP Server (version=TLS1_2, cipher=TLS_ECDHE_RSA_WITH_AES_128_CBC_SHA256_P256) id 15.1.1713.5; Tue, 25 Jun 2019 01:55:08 +0100 Received: from NKGEML413-HUB.china.huawei.com (10.98.56.74) by lhreml709-chm.china.huawei.com (10.201.108.58) with Microsoft SMTP Server (version=TLS1_0, cipher=TLS_ECDHE_RSA_WITH_AES_128_CBC_SHA_P256) id 15.1.1713.5 via Frontend Transport; Tue, 25 Jun 2019 01:55:07 +0100 Received: from NKGEML513-MBX.china.huawei.com ([169.254.1.66]) by NKGEML413-HUB.china.huawei.com ([10.98.56.74]) with mapi id 14.03.0415.000; Tue, 25 Jun 2019 08:55:04 +0800 From: Qin Wu To: =?utf-8?B?TWljaGFsIFZhxaFrbw==?= , "Rob Wilton (rwilton)" CC: netmod Thread-Topic: [netmod] ?==?utf-8?q? mandatory choice with non-presence container case Thread-Index: AdUq72LdChSf+6wTQUWLa8icsfeI1w== Date: Tue, 25 Jun 2019 00:55:04 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X19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fXw0KbmV0bW9kIG1haWxpbmcgbGlzdA0K bmV0bW9kQGlldGYub3JnDQpodHRwczovL3d3dy5pZXRmLm9yZy9tYWlsbWFuL2xpc3RpbmZvL25l dG1vZA0K From nobody Mon Jun 24 18:20:36 2019 Return-Path: <0100016b8c38574d-9d8aad57-3e50-45c4-98bb-24091a765ded-000000@amazonses.watsen.net> X-Original-To: netmod@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: netmod@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 85BFA1201EC for ; Mon, 24 Jun 2019 18:20:34 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.897 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.897 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_NONE=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (1024-bit key) header.d=amazonses.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id NUxbZeNsoxT9 for ; Mon, 24 Jun 2019 18:20:32 -0700 (PDT) Received: from a8-96.smtp-out.amazonses.com (a8-96.smtp-out.amazonses.com [54.240.8.96]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 841AB120158 for ; Mon, 24 Jun 2019 18:20:32 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; q=dns/txt; c=relaxed/simple; s=6gbrjpgwjskckoa6a5zn6fwqkn67xbtw; d=amazonses.com; t=1561425631; h=From:Message-Id:Content-Type:Mime-Version:Subject:Date:In-Reply-To:Cc:To:References:Feedback-ID; bh=pZXoMrot2IEH59g1H6AmaNnTjk1Kkcr+KxBMDtceJ+M=; b=X0/gNjeTVtlXTkTwgxEsy+gT8LGEaZWjuBv6Y02++AdeqEqVo9f9NeqU0Illr0d0 rYpyvG40R7BkjhQ/a8j01VnNWXd7+k9CfmVe7hbfVPWSurUj3fvlKuUjf0tPepft34F h3a8gLQL/+3frjpJKrJ4EgZlC3y5YwJiNAsugdRA= From: Kent Watsen Message-ID: <0100016b8c38574d-9d8aad57-3e50-45c4-98bb-24091a765ded-000000@email.amazonses.com> Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="Apple-Mail=_86CC48C2-E0A2-422E-B2E2-38CAA108C1D5" Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 12.4 \(3445.104.11\)) Date: Tue, 25 Jun 2019 01:20:31 +0000 In-Reply-To: Cc: "netmod@ietf.org" To: =?utf-8?Q?Michal_Va=C5=A1ko?= References: X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.3445.104.11) X-SES-Outgoing: 2019.06.25-54.240.8.96 Feedback-ID: 1.us-east-1.DKmIRZFhhsBhtmFMNikgwZUWVrODEw9qVcPhqJEI2DA=:AmazonSES Archived-At: Subject: Re: [netmod] =?utf-8?b?Pz0gID89PT91dGYtOD9xPyBtYW5kYXRvcnkgY2hvaWNl?= =?utf-8?q?_with_non-presence_container_cas?= X-BeenThere: netmod@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: NETMOD WG list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 25 Jun 2019 01:20:34 -0000 --Apple-Mail=_86CC48C2-E0A2-422E-B2E2-38CAA108C1D5 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Hi Michal, > I agree, but these valid data were correctly printed into invalid = data. I do not think printing is allowed to change the validity of data. The NP-container text is unclear. I'm unsure if you saw the thread in = NETCONF, but I filed this issue over the weekend. Please add to it, if = only to include a link to this thread: https://github.com/netmod-wg/yang-next/issues/88. Thanks, Kent --Apple-Mail=_86CC48C2-E0A2-422E-B2E2-38CAA108C1D5 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/html; charset=us-ascii Hi = Michal,


I agree, but these valid data were correctly printed into = invalid data. I do not think printing is allowed to change the validity = of data.

The NP-container text is unclear. =  I'm unsure if you saw the thread in NETCONF, but I filed this = issue over the weekend.  Please add to it, if only to include a = link to this thread:

= https://github.com/netmod-wg/yang-next/issues/88.

Thanks,
Kent



= --Apple-Mail=_86CC48C2-E0A2-422E-B2E2-38CAA108C1D5-- From nobody Mon Jun 24 18:59:59 2019 Return-Path: X-Original-To: netmod@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: netmod@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id EEE86120223 for ; Mon, 24 Jun 2019 18:59:57 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -4.199 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-4.199 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-2.3, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id OIX10k2f9IlJ for ; Mon, 24 Jun 2019 18:59:55 -0700 (PDT) Received: from huawei.com (lhrrgout.huawei.com [185.176.76.210]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id AB502120219 for ; Mon, 24 Jun 2019 18:59:54 -0700 (PDT) Received: from lhreml704-cah.china.huawei.com (unknown [172.18.7.106]) by Forcepoint Email with ESMTP id C173CF7B207415F18C28 for ; Tue, 25 Jun 2019 02:59:52 +0100 (IST) Received: from DGGEMM403-HUB.china.huawei.com (10.3.20.211) by lhreml704-cah.china.huawei.com (10.201.108.45) with Microsoft SMTP Server (TLS) id 14.3.408.0; Tue, 25 Jun 2019 02:59:46 +0100 Received: from DGGEMM513-MBX.china.huawei.com ([169.254.1.175]) by DGGEMM403-HUB.china.huawei.com ([10.3.20.211]) with mapi id 14.03.0439.000; Tue, 25 Jun 2019 09:59:18 +0800 From: "Fengchong (frank)" To: "netmod@ietf.org" , "andy@yumaworks.com" Thread-Topic: a question about ietf-hardware yang module Thread-Index: AdUq+YdXGa8CTR9FQVSH0+UgSIb59A== Date: Tue, 25 Jun 2019 01:59:18 +0000 Message-ID: <5756FB984666AD4BB8E1D63E2E3AA3D001ED25CD@dggemm513-mbx.china.huawei.com> Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: zh-CN X-MS-Has-Attach: yes X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: 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APXvYqwxHBfjsUFso8kV+dwVM2hVzNSk2Vu9VT58oHcOO2nooPTxdljB6rafZUorhFAt/5vk/phBOTvinpEI2A0nYmo= X-Received: by 2002:a2e:86cc:: with SMTP id n12mr5191458ljj.146.1561428869784; Mon, 24 Jun 2019 19:14:29 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 References: <5756FB984666AD4BB8E1D63E2E3AA3D001ED25CD@dggemm513-mbx.china.huawei.com> In-Reply-To: <5756FB984666AD4BB8E1D63E2E3AA3D001ED25CD@dggemm513-mbx.china.huawei.com> From: Andy Bierman Date: Mon, 24 Jun 2019 19:14:18 -0700 Message-ID: To: "Fengchong (frank)" Cc: "netmod@ietf.org" Content-Type: multipart/related; boundary="000000000000208b61058c1c7dec" Archived-At: Subject: Re: [netmod] FW: a question about ietf-hardware yang module X-BeenThere: netmod@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: NETMOD WG list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 25 Jun 2019 02:14:36 -0000 --000000000000208b61058c1c7dec Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="000000000000208b5f058c1c7deb" --000000000000208b5f058c1c7deb Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable On Mon, Jun 24, 2019 at 6:59 PM Fengchong (frank) < frank.fengchong@huawei.com> wrote: > Andy, > > Can you clarify this question? > > > Since state-last-changed seems to cover state data changing, last-change seems to apply to the operational value of the config=3Dtrue nodes in the /hardware/component subtree Andy > ------------------------------ > > =E5=8D=8E=E4=B8=BA=E6=8A=80=E6=9C=AF=E6=9C=89=E9=99=90=E5=85=AC=E5=8F=B8 = Huawei Technologies Co., Ltd. > > [image: Company_logo] > > =E4=B8=AA=E4=BA=BA=E7=AD=BE=E5=90=8D=EF=BC=9A=E5=86=AF=E5=86=B2 > =E6=89=8B =E6=9C=BA=EF=BC=9A13776612983 > =E7=94=B5=E5=AD=90=E9=82=AE=E4=BB=B6=EF=BC=9Afrank.fengchong@huawei.com > =E5=85=AC=E5=8F=B8=E7=BD=91=E5=9D=80=EF=BC=9Awww.huawei.com > ------------------------------ > > =EF=BB=BF =E6=9C=AC=E9=82=AE=E4=BB=B6=E5=8F=8A=E5=85=B6=E9=99=84=E4=BB=B6= =E5=90=AB=E6=9C=89=E5=8D=8E=E4=B8=BA=E5=85=AC=E5=8F=B8=E7=9A=84=E4=BF=9D=E5= =AF=86=E4=BF=A1=E6=81=AF=EF=BC=8C=E4=BB=85=E9=99=90=E4=BA=8E=E5=8F=91=E9=80= =81=E7=BB=99=E4=B8=8A=E9=9D=A2=E5=9C=B0=E5=9D=80=E4=B8=AD=E5=88=97=E5=87=BA= =E7=9A=84=E4=B8=AA=E4=BA=BA=E6=88=96=E7=BE=A4=E7=BB=84=E3=80=82=E7=A6=81 > =E6=AD=A2=E4=BB=BB=E4=BD=95=E5=85=B6=E4=BB=96=E4=BA=BA=E4=BB=A5=E4=BB=BB= =E4=BD=95=E5=BD=A2=E5=BC=8F=E4=BD=BF=E7=94=A8=EF=BC=88=E5=8C=85=E6=8B=AC=E4= =BD=86=E4=B8=8D=E9=99=90=E4=BA=8E=E5=85=A8=E9=83=A8=E6=88=96=E9=83=A8=E5=88= =86=E5=9C=B0=E6=B3=84=E9=9C=B2=E3=80=81=E5=A4=8D=E5=88=B6=E3=80=81=E6=88=96= =E6=95=A3=E5=8F=91=EF=BC=89=E6=9C=AC=E9=82=AE=E4=BB=B6=E4=B8=AD > =E7=9A=84=E4=BF=A1=E6=81=AF=E3=80=82=E5=A6=82=E6=9E=9C=E6=82=A8=E9=94=99= =E6=94=B6=E4=BA=86=E6=9C=AC=E9=82=AE=E4=BB=B6=EF=BC=8C=E8=AF=B7=E6=82=A8=E7= =AB=8B=E5=8D=B3=E7=94=B5=E8=AF=9D=E6=88=96=E9=82=AE=E4=BB=B6=E9=80=9A=E7=9F= =A5=E5=8F=91=E4=BB=B6=E4=BA=BA=E5=B9=B6=E5=88=A0=E9=99=A4=E6=9C=AC=E9=82=AE= =E4=BB=B6=EF=BC=81 > This e-mail and its attachments contain confidential information from > HUAWEI, which > is intended only for the person or entity whose address is listed above. > Any use of the > information contained herein in any way (including, but not limited to, > total or partial > disclosure, reproduction, or dissemination) by persons other than the > intended > recipient(s) is prohibited. If you receive this e-mail in error, please > notify the sender by > phone or email immediately and delete it! > > > > *=E5=8F=91=E4=BB=B6=E4=BA=BA:* Fengchong (frank) > *=E5=8F=91=E9=80=81=E6=97=B6=E9=97=B4:* 2019=E5=B9=B46=E6=9C=8819=E6=97= =A5 10:21 > *=E6=94=B6=E4=BB=B6=E4=BA=BA:* 'netmod@ietf.org' ; 'andy= @yumaworks.com' < > andy@yumaworks.com> > *=E6=8A=84=E9=80=81:* yanjin (A) > *=E4=B8=BB=E9=A2=98:* a question about ietf-hardware yang module > > > > Hi andy and all, > > I=E2=80=99m implementing ietf-hardware.yang, and I have a question abo= ut > /hardware/last-change. > > > > module: ietf-hardware > > +--rw hardware > > +--ro last-change? yang:date-and-time > > +--rw component* [name] > > +--rw name string > > +--rw class identityref > > +--ro physical-index? int32 {entity-mib}? > > +--ro description? string > > +--rw parent? -> ../../component/name > > +--rw parent-rel-pos? int32 > > +--ro contains-child* -> ../../component/name > > +--ro hardware-rev? string > > +--ro firmware-rev? string > > +--ro software-rev? string > > +--ro serial-num? string > > +--ro mfg-name? string > > +--ro model-name? string > > +--rw alias? string > > +--rw asset-id? string > > +--ro is-fru? boolean > > +--ro mfg-date? yang:date-and-time > > +--rw uri* inet:uri > > +--ro uuid? yang:uuid > > +--rw state {hardware-state}? > > | +--ro state-last-changed? yang:date-and-time > > | +--rw admin-state? admin-state > > | +--ro oper-state? oper-state > > | +--ro usage-state? usage-state > > | +--ro alarm-state? alarm-state > > | +--ro standby-state? standby-state > > +--ro sensor-data {hardware-sensor}? > > +--ro value? sensor-value > > +--ro value-type? sensor-value-type > > +--ro value-scale? sensor-value-scale > > +--ro value-precision? sensor-value-precision > > +--ro oper-status? sensor-status > > +--ro units-display? string > > +--ro value-timestamp? yang:date-and-time > > +--ro value-update-rate? uint32 > > > > Last-change=E2=80=99s description: "The time the '/hardware/component' li= st changed in the > > operational state."; > > It seems this description means any change (configuration change or state > change) of list /hardware/component/ will cause the update of > /hardware/last-change. > > > > But in description of notification:hardware-state-change > > notification hardware-state-change { > > description > > "A hardware-state-change notification is generated when the > > value of /hardware/last-change changes in the operational > > state."; > > reference > > "RFC 6933 : Entity MIB (Vers= ion 4) - entConfigChange"; > > } > > > > This notification means if any change occurs in /hardware/last-change, a = notification will be reported. > > This notification also refers to Entity MIB=E2=80=99s entConfigChange. > > > > My question is whether only configuration change of hardware component wi= ll cause the update of /hardware/last-change? > > > --000000000000208b5f058c1c7deb Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable


=
On Mon, Jun 24, 2019 at 6:59 PM Fengc= hong (frank) <frank.fengch= ong@huawei.com> wrote:

= Andy,

= =C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 Can you clarify this question?

= =C2=A0


Since = state-last-changed seems to cover state data changing, last-change seems to= apply to
the operational value of the config=3Dtrue nodes in the= /hardware/component subtree

Andy


=C2=A0

=E5=8D=8E=E4=B8= =BA=E6=8A=80=E6=9C=AF=E6=9C=89=E9=99=90=E5=85=AC=E5=8F=B8 Huawei Technologies Co., Ltd.

3D"Company_logo"

=E4=B8=AA=E4=BA= =BA=E7=AD=BE=E5=90=8D=EF=BC=9A=E5=86=AF=E5=86=B2
=E6=89=8B=E3=80=80=E3=80=80=E6=9C=BA=EF=BC=9A13= 776612983
=E7=94=B5=E5=AD=90=E9=82=AE=E4=BB=B6=EF=BC=9Afrank.fengcho= ng@huawei.com
=E5=85=AC=E5=8F=B8=E7=BD=91=E5=9D=80=EF=BC=9Awww.huawei.com=

=EF=BB=BF =E6=9C= =AC=E9=82=AE=E4=BB=B6=E5=8F=8A=E5=85=B6=E9=99=84=E4=BB=B6=E5=90=AB=E6=9C=89= =E5=8D=8E=E4=B8=BA=E5=85=AC=E5=8F=B8=E7=9A=84=E4=BF=9D=E5=AF=86=E4=BF=A1=E6= =81=AF=EF=BC=8C=E4=BB=85=E9=99=90=E4=BA=8E=E5=8F=91=E9=80=81=E7=BB=99=E4=B8= =8A=E9=9D=A2=E5=9C=B0=E5=9D=80=E4=B8=AD=E5=88=97=E5=87=BA=E7=9A=84=E4=B8=AA= =E4=BA=BA=E6=88=96=E7=BE=A4=E7=BB=84=E3=80=82=E7=A6=81 =E6=AD= =A2=E4=BB=BB=E4=BD=95=E5=85=B6=E4=BB=96=E4=BA=BA=E4=BB=A5=E4=BB=BB=E4=BD=95= =E5=BD=A2=E5=BC=8F=E4=BD=BF=E7=94=A8=EF=BC=88=E5=8C=85=E6=8B=AC=E4=BD=86=E4= =B8=8D=E9=99=90=E4=BA=8E=E5=85=A8=E9=83=A8=E6=88=96=E9=83=A8=E5=88=86=E5=9C= =B0=E6=B3=84=E9=9C=B2=E3=80=81=E5=A4=8D=E5=88=B6=E3=80=81=E6=88=96=E6=95=A3= =E5=8F=91=EF=BC=89=E6=9C=AC=E9=82=AE=E4=BB=B6=E4=B8=AD =E7=9A= =84=E4=BF=A1=E6=81=AF=E3=80=82=E5=A6=82=E6=9E=9C=E6=82=A8=E9=94=99=E6=94=B6= =E4=BA=86=E6=9C=AC=E9=82=AE=E4=BB=B6=EF=BC=8C=E8=AF=B7=E6=82=A8=E7=AB=8B=E5= =8D=B3=E7=94=B5=E8=AF=9D=E6=88=96=E9=82=AE=E4=BB=B6=E9=80=9A=E7=9F=A5=E5=8F= =91=E4=BB=B6=E4=BA=BA=E5=B9=B6=E5=88=A0=E9=99=A4=E6=9C=AC=E9=82=AE=E4=BB=B6= =EF=BC=81
This e-mail and its attachments contain confidential information from HUAWE= I, which
is intended only for the person or entity whose address is listed above. An= y use of the
information contained herein in any way (including, but not limited to, tot= al or partial
disclosure, reproduction, or dissemination) by persons other than the inten= ded
recipient(s) is prohibited. If you receive this e-mail in error, please not= ify the sender by
phone or email immediately and delete it!<= /span>

= =C2=A0

=E5=8F=91=E4=BB=B6=E4=BA=BA:= Fengchong (frank)
=E5=8F=91=E9=80=81=E6=97=B6=E9=97=B4: 2019=E5=B9=B46=E6=9C=8819=E6=97=A5 10:21
=E6=94=B6=E4=BB=B6=E4=BA=BA: '= netmod@ietf.org' <netmod@ietf.org>; 'andy@yumaworks.com' <andy@yumaworks.com>
=E6=8A=84=E9=80=81: yanjin (A) <rose.yan@huawei.com>
=E4=B8=BB=E9=A2=98: a question about ietf-hardware yang module

=C2=A0

Hi andy and all,<= /span>

=C2=A0=C2=A0 I=E2=80=99m implem= enting ietf-hardware.yang, and I have a question about /hardware/last-chang= e.

=C2=A0

=C2=A0= =C2=A0 module: ietf-hardware

=C2=A0= =C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 +--rw hardware

=C2=A0= =C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 +--ro last-change?=C2=A0=C2=A0 yang:da= te-and-time

=C2=A0= =C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 +--rw component* [name]<= /span>

=C2=A0= =C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 +--rw name=C2=A0=C2= =A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 strin= g

=C2=A0= =C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 +--rw class=C2=A0=C2= =A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 identityref=

=C2=A0= =C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 +--ro physical-index= ?=C2=A0=C2=A0 int32 {entity-mib}?

=C2=A0= =C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 +--ro description?= =C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 string

=C2=A0= =C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 +--rw parent?=C2=A0= =C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 -> ../../componen= t/name

=C2=A0= =C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 +--rw parent-rel-pos= ?=C2=A0=C2=A0 int32

=C2=A0= =C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 +--ro contains-child= *=C2=A0=C2=A0 -> ../../component/name

=C2=A0= =C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 +--ro hardware-rev?= =C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 string

=C2=A0= =C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 +--ro firmware-rev?= =C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 string

=C2=A0= =C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 =C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0+--ro software-rev?= =C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 string

=C2=A0= =C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 +--ro serial-num?=C2= =A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 string

=C2=A0= =C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 +--ro mfg-name?=C2= =A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 string

=C2=A0= =C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 +--ro model-name?=C2= =A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 string

=C2=A0= =C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 +--rw alias?=C2=A0= =C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 string<= u>

=C2=A0= =C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 +--rw asset-id?=C2= =A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 string

=C2=A0= =C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 =C2=A0+--ro is-fru?=C2=A0= =C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 boolean

=C2=A0= =C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 +--ro mfg-date?=C2= =A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 yang:date-and-time<= /u>

=C2=A0=C2=A0=
=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 +--rw uri*=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=
=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 inet:uri=

=C2=A0=C2=A0=
=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 +--ro uuid?=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=
=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 yang:uuid<=
u>
=C2=A0=C2=A0=
=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 +--rw state {hardware-stat=
e}?
=C2=A0=C2=A0=
=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 |=C2=A0 +--ro state-last-c=
hanged?=C2=A0=C2=A0 yang:date-and-time
=C2=A0=C2=A0=
=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 |=C2=A0 +--rw admin-state?=
=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 admin-state
=C2=A0=C2=A0=
=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 |=C2=A0 +--ro oper-state?=
=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 oper-state<=
/u>
=C2=A0=C2=A0=
=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 |=C2=A0 +--ro usage-state?=
=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 usage-state
=C2=A0=C2=A0=
=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 |=C2=A0 +--ro alarm-state?=
=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 alarm-state
=C2=A0=C2=A0=
=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 |=C2=A0 +--ro standby-stat=
e?=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 standby-state
=C2=A0=C2=A0=
=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 +--ro sensor-data {hardwar=
e-sensor}?
=C2=A0=C2=A0=
=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 +--ro va=
lue?=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=
=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 sensor-value
=C2=A0=C2=A0=
=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 +--ro va=
lue-type?=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 sensor-valu=
e-type
=C2=A0=C2=A0=
=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 +--ro va=
lue-scale?=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 sensor-value-sca=
le
=C2=A0=C2=A0=
=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 +--ro va=
lue-precision?=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 sensor-value-precision=

=C2=A0=C2=A0=
=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 +--ro op=
er-status?=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 sensor-status=

=C2=A0=C2=A0=
=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 +--ro un=
its-display?=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 string
=C2=A0=C2=A0=
=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 +--ro va=
lue-timestamp?=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 yang:date-and-time
=C2=A0=C2=A0=
=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 =C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0+--ro va=
lue-update-rate?=C2=A0=C2=A0 uint32

=C2=A0

Last-=
change=E2=80=99s description: "The time the '/hardware/=
component' list changed in the
=C2=
=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 operational state=
.";

It seems this description means any change (configuration chan= ge or state change) of list /hardware/component/ will cause the update of /= hardware/last-change.

=C2=A0

But i=
n description of =C2=A0notification:hardware-state-change
=C2=
=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 notification hardware-state-change {

=C2=
=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 description


=C2=
=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 "A hardware-state-change notif=
ication is generated when the


=C2=
=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 value of /hardware/last-chang=
e changes in the operational


=C2=
=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 state.";


=C2=
=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 reference


=C2=
=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 "RFC=
 6933: Entity MIB (Version 4) - entConfigChange";=



=C2=
=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 }


=
=C2=A0


This =
notification means if any change occurs in /hardware/last-change, a notific=
ation will be reported.


This =
notification also refers to Entity MIB=E2=80=99s entConfigChange.=



=
=C2=A0


My qu=
estion is whether only configuration change of hardware component will caus=
e the update of /hardware/last-change? 


=C2=A0
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Received: from atlas5.jacobs-university.de ([10.70.0.198]) by localhost (demetrius5.jacobs-university.de [10.70.0.222]) (amavisd-new, port 10032) with ESMTP id 7QyAxrfEpA2R; Tue, 25 Jun 2019 07:51:25 +0200 (CEST) Received: from hermes.jacobs-university.de (hermes.jacobs-university.de [212.201.44.23]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (Client CN "hermes.jacobs-university.de", Issuer "DFN-Verein Global Issuing CA" (verified OK)) by atlas5.jacobs-university.de (Postfix) with ESMTPS; Tue, 25 Jun 2019 07:51:25 +0200 (CEST) Received: from localhost (demetrius5.irc-it.jacobs-university.de [10.70.0.222]) by hermes.jacobs-university.de (Postfix) with ESMTP id 225CB20128; Tue, 25 Jun 2019 07:51:25 +0200 (CEST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at jacobs-university.de Received: from hermes.jacobs-university.de ([212.201.44.23]) by localhost (demetrius5.jacobs-university.de [10.70.0.222]) (amavisd-new, port 10028) with ESMTP id mjzKJkaj4_Rv; Tue, 25 Jun 2019 07:51:24 +0200 (CEST) Received: from exchange.jacobs-university.de (SXCHMB01.jacobs.jacobs-university.de [10.70.0.120]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (Client CN "exchange.jacobs-university.de", Issuer "DFN-Verein Global Issuing CA" (verified OK)) by hermes.jacobs-university.de (Postfix) with ESMTPS id C72E220126; Tue, 25 Jun 2019 07:51:24 +0200 (CEST) Received: from anna.localdomain (10.50.218.117) by sxchmb03.jacobs.jacobs-university.de (10.70.0.155) with Microsoft SMTP Server (version=TLS1_2, cipher=TLS_ECDHE_RSA_WITH_AES_256_GCM_SHA384) id 15.1.1713.5; Tue, 25 Jun 2019 07:51:23 +0200 Received: by anna.localdomain (Postfix, from userid 501) id A1C73300A78F38; Tue, 25 Jun 2019 07:51:23 +0200 (CEST) Date: Tue, 25 Jun 2019 07:51:23 +0200 From: Juergen Schoenwaelder To: Andy Bierman CC: "Fengchong (frank)" , "netmod@ietf.org" Message-ID: <20190625055123.ia2k5vv5tfhzqqs2@anna.jacobs.jacobs-university.de> Reply-To: Juergen Schoenwaelder Mail-Followup-To: Andy Bierman , "Fengchong (frank)" , "netmod@ietf.org" References: <5756FB984666AD4BB8E1D63E2E3AA3D001ED25CD@dggemm513-mbx.china.huawei.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: User-Agent: NeoMutt/20180716 X-ClientProxiedBy: SXCHMB02.jacobs.jacobs-university.de (10.70.0.121) To sxchmb03.jacobs.jacobs-university.de (10.70.0.155) Archived-At: Subject: Re: [netmod] FW: a question about ietf-hardware yang module X-BeenThere: netmod@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: NETMOD WG list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 25 Jun 2019 05:51:30 -0000 On Mon, Jun 24, 2019 at 07:14:18PM -0700, Andy Bierman wrote: > On Mon, Jun 24, 2019 at 6:59 PM Fengchong (frank) < > frank.fengchong@huawei.com> wrote: > > > Andy, > > > > Can you clarify this question? > > > > > > > > Since state-last-changed seems to cover state data changing, last-change > seems to apply to > the operational value of the config=true nodes in the /hardware/component > subtree > > Andy > It could be that the intention was that ietf-hardware:last-change matches ENTITY-MIB:entLastChangeTime, which has this description (see RFC 6933): "The value of sysUpTime at the time a conceptual row is created, modified, or deleted in any of these tables: - entPhysicalTable - entLogicalTable - entLPMappingTable - entAliasMappingTable - entPhysicalContainsTable " If so, ietf-hardware:last-change should change whenever the an element in the hardware/component list changes, e.g., pluggable hardware is added or removed. If this interpretation is correct, then an entry in the table "YANG Data Nodes and Related ENTITY-MIB Objects" is missing. Anyway, the description of ietf-hardware:last-change is obviously not precise enough and this thread should perhaps lead to an errata if we find agreement what the intention here was. /js -- Juergen Schoenwaelder Jacobs University Bremen gGmbH Phone: +49 421 200 3587 Campus Ring 1 | 28759 Bremen | Germany Fax: +49 421 200 3103 From nobody Tue Jun 25 00:13:54 2019 Return-Path: X-Original-To: netmod@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: netmod@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7BAEE12009E for ; Tue, 25 Jun 2019 00:13:52 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.899 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.899 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id qAgVO1xwewXX for ; Tue, 25 Jun 2019 00:13:50 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail.tail-f.com (mail.tail-f.com [46.21.102.45]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5E49C120077 for ; Tue, 25 Jun 2019 00:13:50 -0700 (PDT) Received: from localhost (unknown [173.38.220.61]) by mail.tail-f.com (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 2580C1AE02F0; Tue, 25 Jun 2019 09:13:48 +0200 (CEST) Date: Tue, 25 Jun 2019 09:13:51 +0200 (CEST) Message-Id: <20190625.091351.1767393704172151256.mbj@tail-f.com> To: j.schoenwaelder@jacobs-university.de Cc: andy@yumaworks.com, netmod@ietf.org From: Martin Bjorklund In-Reply-To: <20190625055123.ia2k5vv5tfhzqqs2@anna.jacobs.jacobs-university.de> References: <5756FB984666AD4BB8E1D63E2E3AA3D001ED25CD@dggemm513-mbx.china.huawei.com> <20190625055123.ia2k5vv5tfhzqqs2@anna.jacobs.jacobs-university.de> X-Mailer: Mew version 6.7 on Emacs 25.2 / Mule 6.0 (HANACHIRUSATO) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: Text/Plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Archived-At: Subject: Re: [netmod] FW: a question about ietf-hardware yang module X-BeenThere: netmod@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: NETMOD WG list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 25 Jun 2019 07:13:52 -0000 Hi, I don't understand what is unclear about the current descriptions. Is it the relations to the MIB objects that are unclear or is it the descriptions in the YANG module? The original question was: My question is whether only configuration change of hardware component will cause the update of /hardware/last-change? The answer is clearly "no", since /hardware/last-change says: "The time the '/hardware/component' list changed in the operational state."; and this list has e.g.: When the server detects a new hardware component, it initializes a list entry in the operational state. So it is clear that if a hardware component is added (not a configuration change) this list is changed, and last-change is updated. /martin Juergen Schoenwaelder wrote: > On Mon, Jun 24, 2019 at 07:14:18PM -0700, Andy Bierman wrote: > > On Mon, Jun 24, 2019 at 6:59 PM Fengchong (frank) < > > frank.fengchong@huawei.com> wrote: > > > > > Andy, > > > > > > Can you clarify this question? > > > > > > > > > > > > > Since state-last-changed seems to cover state data changing, last-change > > seems to apply to > > the operational value of the config=true nodes in the /hardware/component > > subtree > > > > Andy > > > > It could be that the intention was that ietf-hardware:last-change > matches ENTITY-MIB:entLastChangeTime, which has this description (see > RFC 6933): > > "The value of sysUpTime at the time a conceptual row is > created, modified, or deleted in any of these tables: > - entPhysicalTable > - entLogicalTable > - entLPMappingTable > - entAliasMappingTable > - entPhysicalContainsTable > " > > If so, ietf-hardware:last-change should change whenever the an element > in the hardware/component list changes, e.g., pluggable hardware is > added or removed. > > If this interpretation is correct, then an entry in the table "YANG > Data Nodes and Related ENTITY-MIB Objects" is missing. Anyway, the > description of ietf-hardware:last-change is obviously not precise > enough and this thread should perhaps lead to an errata if we find > agreement what the intention here was. > > /js > > -- > Juergen Schoenwaelder Jacobs University Bremen gGmbH > Phone: +49 421 200 3587 Campus Ring 1 | 28759 Bremen | Germany > Fax: +49 421 200 3103 > > _______________________________________________ > netmod mailing list > netmod@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/netmod > From nobody Tue Jun 25 00:39:08 2019 Return-Path: X-Original-To: netmod@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: netmod@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 02344120236 for ; Tue, 25 Jun 2019 00:39:07 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.896 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.896 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAD_ENC_HEADER=0.001, BAYES_00=-1.9, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_NONE=0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id Vu-ZB2CKoxNs for ; Tue, 25 Jun 2019 00:39:05 -0700 (PDT) Received: from trail.lhotka.name (trail.lhotka.name [77.48.224.143]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 998011201F2 for ; Tue, 25 Jun 2019 00:39:04 -0700 (PDT) Received: by trail.lhotka.name (Postfix, from userid 109) id 6FE7F182172E; Tue, 25 Jun 2019 09:40:23 +0200 (CEST) Received: from localhost (unknown [172.29.2.111]) by trail.lhotka.name (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 019E4182172C; Tue, 25 Jun 2019 09:40:21 +0200 (CEST) From: Ladislav Lhotka To: Kent Watsen , Michal =?utf-8?Q?Va=C5=A1ko?= Cc: "netmod\@ietf.org" In-Reply-To: <0100016b8c38574d-9d8aad57-3e50-45c4-98bb-24091a765ded-000000@email.amazonses.com> References: <0100016b8c38574d-9d8aad57-3e50-45c4-98bb-24091a765ded-000000@email.amazonses.com> Mail-Followup-To: Kent Watsen , Michal =?utf-8?Q?Va=C5=A1?= =?utf-8?Q?ko?= , "netmod\@ietf.org" Date: Tue, 25 Jun 2019 09:39:01 +0200 Message-ID: <87tvceunai.fsf@nic.cz> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed Archived-At: Subject: Re: [netmod] ?= ?==?utf-8?q? mandatory choice with non-presence container cas X-BeenThere: netmod@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: NETMOD WG list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 25 Jun 2019 07:39:07 -0000 Kent Watsen writes: > Hi Michal, > >> I agree, but these valid data were correctly printed into >> invalid data. I do not think printing is allowed to change the >> validity of data. > > The NP-container text is unclear. This issue IMO has more to do with the "mandatory" statement under "choice". Similar problems can be caused by data nodes that depend on "when". For example: choice sel { madatory true; leaf foo { when "..."; ... } leaf bar { ... } leaf baz { ... } If "foo" exists in instance data but its when condition becomes false, the server is expected to remove the "foo" instance, but what next? The data becomes invalid, but the server can hardly include "bar" or "baz" on its own. Lada > I'm unsure if you saw the thread in NETCONF, but I filed this > issue over the weekend. Please add to it, if only to include a > link to this thread: > > https://github.com/netmod-wg/yang-next/issues/88. > > Thanks, Kent > > _______________________________________________ netmod mailing > list netmod@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/netmod -- Ladislav Lhotka Head, CZ.NIC Labs PGP Key ID: 0xB8F92B08A9F76C67 From nobody Tue Jun 25 00:39:57 2019 Return-Path: X-Original-To: netmod@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: netmod@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9ECA5120236 for ; Tue, 25 Jun 2019 00:39:56 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.897 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.897 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_NONE=0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 1bGiVxCg6f_f for ; Tue, 25 Jun 2019 00:39:55 -0700 (PDT) Received: from atlas5.jacobs-university.de (atlas5.jacobs-university.de [212.201.44.20]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ADH-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id E206B1201F2 for ; Tue, 25 Jun 2019 00:39:54 -0700 (PDT) Received: from localhost (demetrius5.irc-it.jacobs-university.de [10.70.0.222]) by atlas5.jacobs-university.de (Postfix) with ESMTP id 72F00375; Tue, 25 Jun 2019 09:39:53 +0200 (CEST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at jacobs-university.de Received: from atlas5.jacobs-university.de ([10.70.0.198]) by localhost (demetrius5.jacobs-university.de [10.70.0.222]) (amavisd-new, port 10032) with ESMTP id aLbqAaRMR9lI; Tue, 25 Jun 2019 09:39:53 +0200 (CEST) Received: from hermes.jacobs-university.de (hermes.jacobs-university.de [212.201.44.23]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (Client CN "hermes.jacobs-university.de", Issuer "DFN-Verein Global Issuing CA" (verified OK)) by atlas5.jacobs-university.de (Postfix) with ESMTPS; Tue, 25 Jun 2019 09:39:53 +0200 (CEST) Received: from localhost (demetrius5.irc-it.jacobs-university.de [10.70.0.222]) by hermes.jacobs-university.de (Postfix) with ESMTP id 59D6E20128; Tue, 25 Jun 2019 09:39:53 +0200 (CEST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at jacobs-university.de Received: from hermes.jacobs-university.de ([212.201.44.23]) by localhost (demetrius5.jacobs-university.de [10.70.0.222]) (amavisd-new, port 10028) with ESMTP id Jed0tB7_dL7z; Tue, 25 Jun 2019 09:39:53 +0200 (CEST) Received: from exchange.jacobs-university.de (sxchmb04.jacobs.jacobs-university.de [10.70.0.156]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (Client CN "exchange.jacobs-university.de", Issuer "DFN-Verein Global Issuing CA" (verified OK)) by hermes.jacobs-university.de (Postfix) with ESMTPS id EB87820126; Tue, 25 Jun 2019 09:39:52 +0200 (CEST) Received: from anna.localdomain (10.50.218.117) by sxchmb03.jacobs.jacobs-university.de (10.70.0.155) with Microsoft SMTP Server (version=TLS1_2, cipher=TLS_ECDHE_RSA_WITH_AES_256_GCM_SHA384) id 15.1.1713.5; Tue, 25 Jun 2019 09:39:52 +0200 Received: by anna.localdomain (Postfix, from userid 501) id 06B78300A7914D; Tue, 25 Jun 2019 09:39:51 +0200 (CEST) Date: Tue, 25 Jun 2019 09:39:51 +0200 From: Juergen Schoenwaelder To: Martin Bjorklund CC: , Message-ID: <20190625073951.snh66hqbvd6cllmk@anna.jacobs.jacobs-university.de> Reply-To: Juergen Schoenwaelder Mail-Followup-To: Martin Bjorklund , andy@yumaworks.com, netmod@ietf.org References: <5756FB984666AD4BB8E1D63E2E3AA3D001ED25CD@dggemm513-mbx.china.huawei.com> <20190625055123.ia2k5vv5tfhzqqs2@anna.jacobs.jacobs-university.de> <20190625.091351.1767393704172151256.mbj@tail-f.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <20190625.091351.1767393704172151256.mbj@tail-f.com> User-Agent: NeoMutt/20180716 X-ClientProxiedBy: SXCHMB04.jacobs.jacobs-university.de (10.70.0.156) To sxchmb03.jacobs.jacobs-university.de (10.70.0.155) Archived-At: Subject: Re: [netmod] FW: a question about ietf-hardware yang module X-BeenThere: netmod@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: NETMOD WG list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 25 Jun 2019 07:39:57 -0000 On Tue, Jun 25, 2019 at 09:13:51AM +0200, Martin Bjorklund wrote: > Hi, > > I don't understand what is unclear about the current descriptions. Is > it the relations to the MIB objects that are unclear or is it the > descriptions in the YANG module? The original question was: > > My question is whether only configuration change of hardware > component will cause the update of /hardware/last-change? > > The answer is clearly "no", since /hardware/last-change says: > > "The time the '/hardware/component' list changed in the > operational state."; > > and this list has e.g.: > > When the server detects a new hardware component, it > initializes a list entry in the operational state. > > So it is clear that if a hardware component is added (not a > configuration change) this list is changed, and last-change is > updated. I think the ambiguity is 'list changed' - does this mean that list entries are added/removed or does it include also the case where a property of a list entry has changed. The relationship to entLastChangeTime is also not clear to me. /js -- Juergen Schoenwaelder Jacobs University Bremen gGmbH Phone: +49 421 200 3587 Campus Ring 1 | 28759 Bremen | Germany Fax: +49 421 200 3103 From nobody Tue Jun 25 00:56:12 2019 Return-Path: X-Original-To: netmod@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: netmod@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id D366E120127 for ; Tue, 25 Jun 2019 00:56:10 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.899 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.899 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id KN_sN9R6pdGQ for ; Tue, 25 Jun 2019 00:56:08 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail.tail-f.com (mail.tail-f.com [46.21.102.45]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9A867120118 for ; Tue, 25 Jun 2019 00:56:08 -0700 (PDT) Received: from localhost (unknown [173.38.220.61]) by mail.tail-f.com (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 518C71AE02F0; Tue, 25 Jun 2019 09:56:06 +0200 (CEST) Date: Tue, 25 Jun 2019 09:56:09 +0200 (CEST) Message-Id: <20190625.095609.527966383793151431.mbj@tail-f.com> To: j.schoenwaelder@jacobs-university.de Cc: andy@yumaworks.com, netmod@ietf.org From: Martin Bjorklund In-Reply-To: <20190625073951.snh66hqbvd6cllmk@anna.jacobs.jacobs-university.de> References: <20190625055123.ia2k5vv5tfhzqqs2@anna.jacobs.jacobs-university.de> <20190625.091351.1767393704172151256.mbj@tail-f.com> <20190625073951.snh66hqbvd6cllmk@anna.jacobs.jacobs-university.de> X-Mailer: Mew version 6.7 on Emacs 25.2 / Mule 6.0 (HANACHIRUSATO) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: Text/Plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Archived-At: Subject: Re: [netmod] FW: a question about ietf-hardware yang module X-BeenThere: netmod@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: NETMOD WG list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 25 Jun 2019 07:56:11 -0000 Juergen Schoenwaelder wrote: > On Tue, Jun 25, 2019 at 09:13:51AM +0200, Martin Bjorklund wrote: > > Hi, > > > > I don't understand what is unclear about the current descriptions. Is > > it the relations to the MIB objects that are unclear or is it the > > descriptions in the YANG module? The original question was: > > > > My question is whether only configuration change of hardware > > component will cause the update of /hardware/last-change? > > > > The answer is clearly "no", since /hardware/last-change says: > > > > "The time the '/hardware/component' list changed in the > > operational state."; > > > > and this list has e.g.: > > > > When the server detects a new hardware component, it > > initializes a list entry in the operational state. > > > > So it is clear that if a hardware component is added (not a > > configuration change) this list is changed, and last-change is > > updated. > > I think the ambiguity is 'list changed' - does this mean that list > entries are added/removed or does it include also the case where a > property of a list entry has changed. Ok. Yes it is supposed to mean entry added/removed/modified. But I can see another unclear thing - suppose I augment in an addtional leaf from my own model into this list. Should last-change be updated if this new leaf is changed? > The relationship to > entLastChangeTime is also not clear to me. Perhaps that's why it isn't listed in the table ;-) /martin > > /js > > -- > Juergen Schoenwaelder Jacobs University Bremen gGmbH > Phone: +49 421 200 3587 Campus Ring 1 | 28759 Bremen | Germany > Fax: +49 421 200 3103 > From nobody Tue Jun 25 00:58:12 2019 Return-Path: X-Original-To: netmod@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: netmod@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1B85F120127 for ; Tue, 25 Jun 2019 00:58:11 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.898 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.898 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAD_ENC_HEADER=0.001, BAYES_00=-1.9, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id oiV03n_A6Te0 for ; Tue, 25 Jun 2019 00:58:09 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail.tail-f.com (mail.tail-f.com [46.21.102.45]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7FD42120219 for ; Tue, 25 Jun 2019 00:58:09 -0700 (PDT) Received: from localhost (unknown [173.38.220.61]) by mail.tail-f.com (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 82DD71AE02F0; Tue, 25 Jun 2019 09:58:08 +0200 (CEST) Date: Tue, 25 Jun 2019 09:58:12 +0200 (CEST) Message-Id: <20190625.095812.959182004133340318.mbj@tail-f.com> To: lhotka@nic.cz Cc: kent@watsen.net, mvasko@cesnet.cz, netmod@ietf.org From: Martin Bjorklund In-Reply-To: <87tvceunai.fsf@nic.cz> References: <0100016b8c38574d-9d8aad57-3e50-45c4-98bb-24091a765ded-000000@email.amazonses.com> <87tvceunai.fsf@nic.cz> X-Mailer: Mew version 6.7 on Emacs 25.2 / Mule 6.0 (HANACHIRUSATO) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: Text/Plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Archived-At: Subject: Re: [netmod] ?= ?==?utf-8?q? mandatory choice with non-presence container cas X-BeenThere: netmod@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: NETMOD WG list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 25 Jun 2019 07:58:11 -0000 Ladislav Lhotka wrote: > Kent Watsen writes: > > > Hi Michal, > >> I agree, but these valid data were correctly printed into invalid > >> data. I do not think printing is allowed to change the validity of > >> data. > > The NP-container text is unclear. > > This issue IMO has more to do with the "mandatory" statement under > "choice". Similar problems can be caused by data nodes that depend on > "when". For example: > > choice sel { > madatory true; > leaf foo { > when "..."; > ... > } > leaf bar { ... } > leaf baz { ... } > > If "foo" exists in instance data but its when condition becomes false, > the server is expected to remove the "foo" instance, but what next? > The data becomes invalid, but the server can hardly include "bar" or > "baz" on its own. Right, so that change (that would make the when condition false) will be rejected by the server, since the resulting config would be invalid. /martin > > Lada > > > I'm unsure if you saw the thread in NETCONF, but I filed this issue > > over the weekend. Please add to it, if only to include a link to this > > thread: https://github.com/netmod-wg/yang-next/issues/88. Thanks, Kent > > _______________________________________________ netmod mailing list > > netmod@ietf.org https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/netmod > > -- > Ladislav Lhotka Head, CZ.NIC Labs PGP Key ID: 0xB8F92B08A9F76C67 > > _______________________________________________ > netmod mailing list > netmod@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/netmod > From nobody Tue Jun 25 02:08:40 2019 Return-Path: X-Original-To: netmod@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: netmod@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0E89D1205D7 for ; Tue, 25 Jun 2019 02:08:31 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -14.5 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-14.5 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_HI=-5, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001, USER_IN_DEF_DKIM_WL=-7.5] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no 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cisco.com X-Outbound-SMTP-Client: 173.37.102.12, xch-rcd-002.cisco.com X-Outbound-Node: rcdn-core-12.cisco.com Archived-At: Subject: Re: [netmod] ?= mandatory choice with non-presence container cas X-BeenThere: netmod@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: NETMOD WG list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 25 Jun 2019 09:08:38 -0000 SGkgTWljaGFsLA0KDQpJdCBpcyBub3QgdGhlIHByaW50aW5nIG9mIHRoZSBkYXRhIHRoYXQgbWFr ZXMgaXQgdmFsaWQvaW52YWxpZC4NCg0KSSBkb24ndCB0aGluayB0aGF0IHlvdXIgaW5wdXQgZGF0 YSB3YXMgZXZlciB2YWxpZCwgYmVjYXVzZSAiY29udGFpbmVyIEMiIGRvZXNuJ3Qgc2F0aXNmeSB0 aGUgbWFuZGF0b3J5IHN0YXRlbWVudCBiZWNhdXNlIGl0IGlzbid0IGEgcmVhbCBkYXRhIG5vZGUg aW4gdGhlIHRyZWUgLSBpdCBpcyBpbnN0YW50aWF0ZWQgd2hlbiByZXF1aXJlZCBhbmQgbWF5IGJl IGRlbGV0ZWQgd2hlbiBpdCBpcyBubyBsb25nZXIgcmVxdWlyZWQuDQoNCkkuZS4geW91ciBtb2Rl bCBoYXMgYmVlbiBkZXNpZ25lZCBzdWNoIHRoYXQgaXQgY2FuIG5ldmVyIGJlIHNhdGlzZmllZC4N 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(No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id A69D1120118 for ; Tue, 25 Jun 2019 04:19:39 -0700 (PDT) Received: by kalendar.cesnet.cz (Postfix, from userid 999) id 5401E60CB1; Tue, 25 Jun 2019 13:19:37 +0200 (CEST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=cesnet.cz; s=kalendar; t=1561461577; bh=ajuCBiWpnT9decsPNHh8XKr+15PPsHOEbvar3wdQxgE=; h=In-Reply-To:From:Date:Cc:To:Subject; b=AQb3DXIDub9DfoxPDFxY8RIPu9rewYaDmm5lssc6bhrB1/pn1KDuiOtp64BcTbEBX HKPE/0BUZuM50BhPJAjFT3KNI0FkP6S59hkTkUMPmYkiIc791AMDY80soKTodmsLUl XC8wLZEwNWUIRBOujeRjdhni4ZvxrvpTsgCe7Dos= Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" In-Reply-To: From: =?utf-8?q?Michal_Va=C5=A1ko?= X-Forward: 88.101.100.176 Date: Tue, 25 Jun 2019 13:19:37 +0200 Cc: "Andy Bierman" , "netmod" To: =?utf-8?q?Rob_Wilton_=28rwilton=29?= MIME-Version: 1.0 Message-ID: <791d-5d120380-25-51599d00@91535824> User-Agent: SOGoMail 2.3.23 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Archived-At: Subject: Re: [netmod] =?utf-8?b?Pz09P3V0Zi04P3E/ID89PT91dGYtOD9xPyA/PSAgbWFu?= =?utf-8?q?datory_choice_with_non-presence_container_cas?= X-BeenThere: netmod@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: NETMOD WG list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 25 Jun 2019 11:19:44 -0000 Hi Rob, actually, I have used model with the container TOP just for simplificat= ion, I have encountered the issue while implementing ietf-ssh-server mo= del from its current draft. I have created the container "users" [1] wi= thout any "user" list instances. Now, you may argue that this is still = not a valid use-case because there are no users but I only tried to sat= isfy the condition. There are some users on the system but they are gen= erated into the configuration on-demand when operational data is reques= ted. Regards, Michal [1] https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-netconf-ssh-client-server-14= #page-22 On Tuesday, June 25, 2019 11:08 CEST, "Rob Wilton (rwilton)" wrote: > Hi Michal, > > It is not the printing of the data that makes it valid/invalid. > > I don't think that your input data was ever valid, because "container= C" doesn't satisfy the mandatory statement because it isn't a real dat= a node in the tree - it is instantiated when required and may be delete= d when it is no longer required. > > I.e. your model has been designed such that it can never be satisfied= . > > > If your model was instead: > > container TOP { > leaf L { > type empty; > } > choice A { > mandatory true; > container C { > leaf L2 { > type empty; > } > } > } > } > > > Then this data is valid: > > > > > > > > > > But this data is not: > > > > > > > Nor is this, which is directly equivalent to the one above, because t= he container doesn't really exist if it doesn't have a child node = present. > > > > > > > Thanks, > Rob > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: Michal Va=C5=A1ko > > Sent: 24 June 2019 18:15 > > To: Andy Bierman > > Cc: Rob Wilton (rwilton) ; netmod > > Subject: Re: [netmod] ?=3D mandatory choice with non-presence conta= iner cas > > > > Hi Andy, > > > > On Monday, June 24, 2019 19:11 CEST, Andy Bierman > > wrote: > > > > > On Mon, Jun 24, 2019 at 10:01 AM Michal Va=C5=A1ko wrote: > > > > > > > Hi Rob, > > > > I think there is a problem in the RFC because using only allowe= d > > > > steps I got invalid data from initially valid data. That cannot= be > > correct. > > > > > > > > > > > No. See sec. 7.5.7 > > > > > > If a non-presence container does not have any child nodes, the= > > > container may or may not be present in the XML encoding. > > > > > > > > > Just because your retrieval does not contain the NP-container, th= at > > > does not mean the NP-container was not present in the server for = the > > > mandatory-stmt validation. > > > > I agree, but these valid data were correctly printed into invalid d= ata. I > > do not think printing is allowed to change the validity of data. > > > > Michal > > > > > > > > Regards, > > > > Michal > > > > > > > > > > > Andy > > > > > > > > > > On Monday, June 24, 2019 18:52 CEST, "Rob Wilton (rwilton)" < > > > > rwilton@cisco.com> wrote: > > > > > > > > > Hi Michal, > > > > > > > > > > My thoughts: > > > > > > > > > > According to 7.5.1: > > > > > > > > > > In the first style, the container has no meaning of its ow= n, > > existing > > > > > only to contain child nodes. In particular, the presence = of the > > > > > container node with no child nodes is semantically equival= ent to > > the > > > > > absence of the container node. YANG calls this style a "n= on- > > presence > > > > > container". This is the default style. > > > > > > > > > > Hence your request (because the NP container does not have an= y > > > > > children) > > > > is equivalent to: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > which fails the "mandatory" check. > > > > > > > > > > Thanks, > > > > > Rob > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > > > > From: netmod On Behalf Of Michal = Va=C5=A1ko > > > > > > Sent: 24 June 2019 17:39 > > > > > > To: netmod > > > > > > Subject: [netmod] mandatory choice with non-presence contai= ner > > > > > > case > > > > > > > > > > > > Hi, > > > > > > I have encountered a situation that I think is not covered = by > > > > > > RFC > > > > 7950. My > > > > > > specific use-case was as follows. > > > > > > > > > > > > model: > > > > > > > > > > > > container TOP { > > > > > > leaf L { > > > > > > type empty; > > > > > > } > > > > > > choice A { > > > > > > mandatory true; > > > > > > container C; > > > > > > } > > > > > > } > > > > > > > > > > > > data: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Parsing was successful, but printing these data back to XML= > > produced: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > and parsing this correctly failed with missing mandatory ch= oice. > > > > According > > > > > > to section 7.5.7 [1], I think the C container could be omit= ted > > > > > > but the whole situation does not seem correct. Thank you fo= r any > > input. > > > > > > > > > > > > Regards, > > > > > > Michal > > > > > > > > > > > > [1] https://tools.ietf.org/html/rfc7950#section-7.5.7 > > > > > > > > > > > > =5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F= =5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F= =5F=5F=5F > > > > > > netmod mailing list > > > > > > netmod@ietf.org > > > > > > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/netmod > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > =5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F= =5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F= =5F=5F > > > > netmod mailing list > > > > netmod@ietf.org > > > > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/netmod > > > > > > > > > From nobody Tue Jun 25 04:31:58 2019 Return-Path: X-Original-To: netmod@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: netmod@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id CABE612013D for ; Tue, 25 Jun 2019 04:31:56 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -6.996 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-6.996 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAD_ENC_HEADER=0.001, BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_HI=-5, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_NONE=0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (1024-bit key) header.d=nic.cz Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id jlAZVmxeP0iY for ; Tue, 25 Jun 2019 04:31:54 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail.nic.cz (mail.nic.cz [217.31.204.67]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 75A3C12004D for ; Tue, 25 Jun 2019 04:31:54 -0700 (PDT) Received: from birdie (unknown [IPv6:2001:1488:fffe:6:a88f:7eff:fed2:45f8]) by mail.nic.cz (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 1E794140829 for ; Tue, 25 Jun 2019 13:31:52 +0200 (CEST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/simple; d=nic.cz; s=default; t=1561462312; bh=hASqUcYdeDU2NBwVJQ1mUmUSij1gGWd0mB15TkLpAl0=; h=From:To:Date; b=XwkKBB/2Df6IskQ6ucUxKE6B59dckrAhwFcrf0/9CC5xJ06sGcicfEA3sligkCr8f VxFLGEjDiWcC83bdCCrlTFBGmzkZUVByolpvJ7ES7FMG7Bx4mWQ0s9ysGlyep06Q8C Fjrm1ZZX0YsdwcQDYL+FZBsxiXCJ+zrjOPZHr7S0= Message-ID: From: Ladislav Lhotka To: NETMOD WG Date: Tue, 25 Jun 2019 13:31:51 +0200 In-Reply-To: <20190625.095812.959182004133340318.mbj@tail-f.com> References: <0100016b8c38574d-9d8aad57-3e50-45c4-98bb-24091a765ded-000000@email.amazonses.com> <87tvceunai.fsf@nic.cz> <20190625.095812.959182004133340318.mbj@tail-f.com> Organization: CZ.NIC Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" User-Agent: Evolution 3.32.3 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Virus-Scanned: clamav-milter 0.100.3 at mail.nic.cz X-Virus-Status: Clean Archived-At: Subject: Re: [netmod] ?= ?==?utf-8?q? mandatory choice with non-presence container cas X-BeenThere: netmod@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: NETMOD WG list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 25 Jun 2019 11:31:57 -0000 On Tue, 2019-06-25 at 09:58 +0200, Martin Bjorklund wrote: > Ladislav Lhotka wrote: > > Kent Watsen writes: > > > > > Hi Michal, > > > > I agree, but these valid data were correctly printed into invalid > > > > data. I do not think printing is allowed to change the validity of > > > > data. > > > The NP-container text is unclear. > > > > This issue IMO has more to do with the "mandatory" statement under > > "choice". Similar problems can be caused by data nodes that depend on > > "when". For example: > > > > choice sel { > > madatory true; > > leaf foo { > > when "..."; > > ... > > } > > leaf bar { ... } > > leaf baz { ... } > > > > If "foo" exists in instance data but its when condition becomes false, > > the server is expected to remove the "foo" instance, but what next? > > The data becomes invalid, but the server can hardly include "bar" or > > "baz" on its own. > > Right, so that change (that would make the when condition false) will > be rejected by the server, since the resulting config would be > invalid. Yes, this is actually the only sane behaviour that should be applied each time a when constraint becomes invalid - rather then auto-delete the conditional nodes. Regarding NP-containers, I think their character implies that they can never be empty in the schema. This should probably be stated in the YANG spec. Lada > > > /martin > > > > > > Lada > > > > > I'm unsure if you saw the thread in NETCONF, but I filed this issue > > > over the weekend. Please add to it, if only to include a link to this > > > thread: https://github.com/netmod-wg/yang-next/issues/88. Thanks, Kent > > > _______________________________________________ netmod mailing list > > > netmod@ietf.org https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/netmod > > > > -- > > Ladislav Lhotka Head, CZ.NIC Labs PGP Key ID: 0xB8F92B08A9F76C67 > > > > _______________________________________________ > > netmod mailing list > > netmod@ietf.org > > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/netmod > > -- Ladislav Lhotka Head, CZ.NIC Labs PGP Key ID: 0xB8F92B08A9F76C67 From nobody Tue Jun 25 04:59:05 2019 Return-Path: X-Original-To: netmod@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: netmod@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 25E491200DB for ; Tue, 25 Jun 2019 04:59:04 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.899 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.899 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id JyYGkdTey271 for ; Tue, 25 Jun 2019 04:59:01 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail.tail-f.com (mail.tail-f.com [46.21.102.45]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6CFE812004C for ; Tue, 25 Jun 2019 04:59:01 -0700 (PDT) Received: from localhost (unknown [173.38.220.61]) by mail.tail-f.com (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 51E7B1AE02F0; Tue, 25 Jun 2019 13:58:59 +0200 (CEST) Date: Tue, 25 Jun 2019 13:59:02 +0200 (CEST) Message-Id: <20190625.135902.1021903277794682233.mbj@tail-f.com> To: mvasko@cesnet.cz Cc: rwilton@cisco.com, netmod@ietf.org From: Martin Bjorklund In-Reply-To: <791d-5d120380-25-51599d00@91535824> References: <791d-5d120380-25-51599d00@91535824> X-Mailer: Mew version 6.7 on Emacs 25.2 / Mule 6.0 (HANACHIRUSATO) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: Text/Plain; charset=iso-8859-15 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Archived-At: Subject: Re: [netmod] =?utf-8?b?Pz0gID89PT91dGYtOD9xPyBtYW5kYXRvcnkgY2hvaWNl?= =?utf-8?q?_with_non-presence_container_cas?= X-BeenThere: netmod@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: NETMOD WG list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 25 Jun 2019 11:59:04 -0000 Michal Va=A8ko wrote: > Hi Rob, > actually, I have used model with the container TOP just for > simplification, I have encountered the issue while implementing > ietf-ssh-server model from its current draft. I have created the > container "users" [1] without any "user" list instances. Now, you may= > argue that this is still not a valid use-case because there are no > users but I only tried to satisfy the condition. Yes, I think that this list (user) should have a "min-elements 1". I think that matches the intent. /martin > There are some users > on the system but they are generated into the configuration on-demand= > when operational data is requested. > = > Regards, > Michal > = > [1] > https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-netconf-ssh-client-server-14#p= age-22 > = > On Tuesday, June 25, 2019 11:08 CEST, "Rob Wilton (rwilton)" > wrote: > = > > Hi Michal, > > = > > It is not the printing of the data that makes it valid/invalid. > > = > > I don't think that your input data was ever valid, because "contain= er > > C" doesn't satisfy the mandatory statement because it isn't a real > > data node in the tree - it is instantiated when required and may be= > > deleted when it is no longer required. > > = > > I.e. your model has been designed such that it can never be satisfi= ed. > > = > > = > > If your model was instead: > > = > > container TOP { > > leaf L { > > type empty; > > } > > choice A { > > mandatory true; > > container C { > > leaf L2 { > > type empty; > > } > > } > > } > > } > > = > > = > > Then this data is valid: > > = > > > > > > > > > > > > > > = > > = > > But this data is not: > > = > > > > > > > > = > > = > > Nor is this, which is directly equivalent to the one above, because= > > the container doesn't really exist if it doesn't have a child > > node present. > > = > > > > > > > > > > = > > Thanks, > > Rob > > = > > = > > > -----Original Message----- > > > From: Michal Va=A8ko > > > Sent: 24 June 2019 18:15 > > > To: Andy Bierman > > > Cc: Rob Wilton (rwilton) ; netmod > > > Subject: Re: [netmod] ?=3D mandatory choice with non-presence con= tainer > > > cas > > > = > > > Hi Andy, > > > = > > > On Monday, June 24, 2019 19:11 CEST, Andy Bierman > > > wrote: > > > = > > > > On Mon, Jun 24, 2019 at 10:01 AM Michal Va=A8ko > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > Hi Rob, > > > > > I think there is a problem in the RFC because using only allo= wed > > > > > steps I got invalid data from initially valid data. That cann= ot be > > > correct. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > No. See sec. 7.5.7 > > > > > > > > If a non-presence container does not have any child nodes, t= he > > > > container may or may not be present in the XML encoding. > > > > > > > > > > > > Just because your retrieval does not contain the NP-container, = that > > > > does not mean the NP-container was not present in the server fo= r the > > > > mandatory-stmt validation. > > > = > > > I agree, but these valid data were correctly printed into invalid= > > > data. I > > > do not think printing is allowed to change the validity of data. > > > = > > > Michal > > > = > > > > > > > > Regards, > > > > > Michal > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Andy > > > > > > > > > > > > > On Monday, June 24, 2019 18:52 CEST, "Rob Wilton (rwilton)" <= > > > > > rwilton@cisco.com> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > Hi Michal, > > > > > > > > > > > > My thoughts: > > > > > > > > > > > > According to 7.5.1: > > > > > > > > > > > > In the first style, the container has no meaning of its = own, > > > existing > > > > > > only to contain child nodes. In particular, the presenc= e of the > > > > > > container node with no child nodes is semantically equiv= alent to > > > the > > > > > > absence of the container node. YANG calls this style a = "non- > > > presence > > > > > > container". This is the default style. > > > > > > > > > > > > Hence your request (because the NP container does not have = any > > > > > > children) > > > > > is equivalent to: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > which fails the "mandatory" check. > > > > > > > > > > > > Thanks, > > > > > > Rob > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > > > > > From: netmod On Behalf Of Micha= l Va=A8ko > > > > > > > Sent: 24 June 2019 17:39 > > > > > > > To: netmod > > > > > > > Subject: [netmod] mandatory choice with non-presence cont= ainer > > > > > > > case > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Hi, > > > > > > > I have encountered a situation that I think is not covere= d by > > > > > > > RFC > > > > > 7950. My > > > > > > > specific use-case was as follows. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > model: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > container TOP { > > > > > > > leaf L { > > > > > > > type empty; > > > > > > > } > > > > > > > choice A { > > > > > > > mandatory true; > > > > > > > container C; > > > > > > > } > > > > > > > } > > > > > > > > > > > > > > data: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Parsing was successful, but printing these data back to X= ML > > > produced: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > and parsing this correctly failed with missing mandatory = choice. > > > > > According > > > > > > > to section 7.5.7 [1], I think the C container could be om= itted > > > > > > > but the whole situation does not seem correct. Thank you = for any > > > input. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Regards, > > > > > > > Michal > > > > > > > > > > > > > > [1] https://tools.ietf.org/html/rfc7950#section-7.5.7 > > > > > > > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > > > > > > netmod mailing list > > > > > > > netmod@ietf.org > > > > > > > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/netmod > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > > > > netmod mailing list > > > > > netmod@ietf.org > > > > > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/netmod > > > > > > > > = > > > = > > = > = > = > = > _______________________________________________ > netmod mailing list > netmod@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/netmod From nobody Tue Jun 25 06:14:23 2019 Return-Path: X-Original-To: netmod@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: netmod@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 14CA41202A6 for ; Tue, 25 Jun 2019 06:14:22 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -6.996 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-6.996 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAD_ENC_HEADER=0.001, BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_HI=-5, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_NONE=0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (1024-bit key) header.d=nic.cz Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id JOeUu4qMXIB5 for ; Tue, 25 Jun 2019 06:14:19 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail.nic.cz (mail.nic.cz [217.31.204.67]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id EFF221202A4 for ; Tue, 25 Jun 2019 06:14:18 -0700 (PDT) Received: from birdie (37-48-32-106.nat.epc.tmcz.cz [37.48.32.106]) by mail.nic.cz (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 1B04D140843 for ; Tue, 25 Jun 2019 15:14:16 +0200 (CEST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/simple; d=nic.cz; s=default; t=1561468456; bh=DBHY4T4Xobfm0Cd8RvC16lbofIMeh5lrsqgMzuTfp5c=; h=From:To:Date; b=DLFf4dtvcEoAGAIVahr8uPjcNwlcllnM8rumOKmLhomDIfmFqUe7vLV+ZFpfde98h jaYch4Vofzlu2K5GSdZxIfonK8P65qhZKtolVKgdvzTPAQKziPlVKKDVOdSqknmb+Q Sv7/zHR6zu4JlbpNyI8L5MUexMkdYG8+SrRo3PJw= Message-ID: <41409287f28be0e30e4bc29ef44f755434f6567f.camel@nic.cz> From: Ladislav Lhotka To: netmod@ietf.org Date: Tue, 25 Jun 2019 15:14:15 +0200 In-Reply-To: <20190625.135902.1021903277794682233.mbj@tail-f.com> References: <791d-5d120380-25-51599d00@91535824> <20190625.135902.1021903277794682233.mbj@tail-f.com> Organization: CZ.NIC Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" User-Agent: Evolution 3.32.3 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Virus-Scanned: clamav-milter 0.100.3 at mail.nic.cz X-Virus-Status: Clean Archived-At: Subject: Re: [netmod] ?= ?==?utf-8?q? mandatory choice with non-presence container cas X-BeenThere: netmod@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: NETMOD WG list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 25 Jun 2019 13:14:22 -0000 On Tue, 2019-06-25 at 13:59 +0200, Martin Bjorklund wrote: > Michal Vaško wrote: > > Hi Rob, > > actually, I have used model with the container TOP just for > > simplification, I have encountered the issue while implementing > > ietf-ssh-server model from its current draft. I have created the > > container "users" [1] without any "user" list instances. Now, you may > > argue that this is still not a valid use-case because there are no > > users but I only tried to satisfy the condition. > > Yes, I think that this list (user) should have a "min-elements 1". I > think that matches the i ntent. Interestingly, the "users" container actually becomes a P-container: its presence indicates that the corresponding case is selected. It might make sense for an admin to select this case even before any users are configured. This example also exposes the drawback of the XML representation - it cannot distinguish between an empty list and nothing. In JSON, the problems of this thread could potentially be circumvented by configuring "users" : { "user" : [ ] } Lada > > /martin > > > > > There are some users > > on the system but they are generated into the configuration on-demand > > when operational data is requested. > > > > Regards, > > Michal > > > > [1] > > https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-netconf-ssh-client-server-14#page-22 > > > > On Tuesday, June 25, 2019 11:08 CEST, "Rob Wilton (rwilton)" > > wrote: > > > > > Hi Michal, > > > > > > It is not the printing of the data that makes it valid/invalid. > > > > > > I don't think that your input data was ever valid, because "container > > > C" doesn't satisfy the mandatory statement because it isn't a real > > > data node in the tree - it is instantiated when required and may be > > > deleted when it is no longer required. > > > > > > I.e. your model has been designed such that it can never be satisfied. > > > > > > > > > If your model was instead: > > > > > > container TOP { > > > leaf L { > > > type empty; > > > } > > > choice A { > > > mandatory true; > > > container C { > > > leaf L2 { > > > type empty; > > > } > > > } > > > } > > > } > > > > > > > > > Then this data is valid: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > But this data is not: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Nor is this, which is directly equivalent to the one above, because > > > the container doesn't really exist if it doesn't have a child > > > node present. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Thanks, > > > Rob > > > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > > From: Michal Vaško > > > > Sent: 24 June 2019 18:15 > > > > To: Andy Bierman > > > > Cc: Rob Wilton (rwilton) ; netmod > > > > Subject: Re: [netmod] ?= mandatory choice with non-presence container > > > > cas > > > > > > > > Hi Andy, > > > > > > > > On Monday, June 24, 2019 19:11 CEST, Andy Bierman > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > On Mon, Jun 24, 2019 at 10:01 AM Michal Vaško > > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > Hi Rob, > > > > > > I think there is a problem in the RFC because using only allowed > > > > > > steps I got invalid data from initially valid data. That cannot be > > > > correct. > > > > > No. See sec. 7.5.7 > > > > > > > > > > If a non-presence container does not have any child nodes, the > > > > > container may or may not be present in the XML encoding. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Just because your retrieval does not contain the NP-container, that > > > > > does not mean the NP-container was not present in the server for the > > > > > mandatory-stmt validation. > > > > > > > > I agree, but these valid data were correctly printed into invalid > > > > data. I > > > > do not think printing is allowed to change the validity of data. > > > > > > > > Michal > > > > > > > > > Regards, > > > > > > Michal > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Andy > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > On Monday, June 24, 2019 18:52 CEST, "Rob Wilton (rwilton)" < > > > > > > rwilton@cisco.com> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > Hi Michal, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > My thoughts: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > According to 7.5.1: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > In the first style, the container has no meaning of its own, > > > > existing > > > > > > > only to contain child nodes. In particular, the presence of > > > > > > > the > > > > > > > container node with no child nodes is semantically equivalent > > > > > > > to > > > > the > > > > > > > absence of the container node. YANG calls this style a "non- > > > > presence > > > > > > > container". This is the default style. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Hence your request (because the NP container does not have any > > > > > > > children) > > > > > > is equivalent to: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > which fails the "mandatory" check. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Thanks, > > > > > > > Rob > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > > > > > > From: netmod On Behalf Of Michal Vaško > > > > > > > > Sent: 24 June 2019 17:39 > > > > > > > > To: netmod > > > > > > > > Subject: [netmod] mandatory choice with non-presence container > > > > > > > > case > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Hi, > > > > > > > > I have encountered a situation that I think is not covered by > > > > > > > > RFC > > > > > > 7950. My > > > > > > > > specific use-case was as follows. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > model: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > container TOP { > > > > > > > > leaf L { > > > > > > > > type empty; > > > > > > > > } > > > > > > > > choice A { > > > > > > > > mandatory true; > > > > > > > > container C; > > > > > > > > } > > > > > > > > } > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > data: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Parsing was successful, but printing these data back to XML > > > > produced: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > and parsing this correctly failed with missing mandatory choice. > > > > > > According > > > > > > > > to section 7.5.7 [1], I think the C container could be omitted > > > > > > > > but the whole situation does not seem correct. Thank you for any > > > > input. > > > > > > > > Regards, > > > > > > > > Michal > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > [1] https://tools.ietf.org/html/rfc7950#section-7.5.7 > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > > > > > > > netmod mailing list > > > > > > > > netmod@ietf.org > > > > > > > > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/netmod > > > > > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > > > > > netmod mailing list > > > > > > netmod@ietf.org > > > > > > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/netmod > > > > > > > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > netmod mailing list > > netmod@ietf.org > > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/netmod > > _______________________________________________ > netmod mailing list > netmod@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/netmod -- Ladislav Lhotka Head, CZ.NIC Labs PGP Key ID: 0xB8F92B08A9F76C67 From nobody Tue Jun 25 06:49:18 2019 Return-Path: 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2019 Return-Path: X-Original-To: netmod@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: netmod@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 26E3F120033 for ; Sun, 23 Jun 2019 20:58:40 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.301 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.301 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-2.3, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 3DeskmSvim27 for ; Sun, 23 Jun 2019 20:58:38 -0700 (PDT) Received: from rfc-editor.org (rfc-editor.org [4.31.198.49]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher AECDH-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 3557D120153 for ; Sun, 23 Jun 2019 20:58:36 -0700 (PDT) Received: by rfc-editor.org (Postfix, from userid 30) id A751EB81C64; Sun, 23 Jun 2019 20:58:35 -0700 (PDT) To: mjethanandani@gmail.com, sagarwal12@gmail.com, huangyi_99@yahoo.com, dana@blairhome.com, ibagdona@gmail.com, warren@kumari.net, joelja@bogus.com, kent+ietf@watsen.net, lberger@labn.net X-PHP-Originating-Script: 30:errata_mail_lib.php From: RFC Errata System Cc: bill.wu@huawei.com, netmod@ietf.org, rfc-editor@rfc-editor.org Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Message-Id: <20190624035835.A751EB81C64@rfc-editor.org> Date: Sun, 23 Jun 2019 20:58:35 -0700 (PDT) Archived-At: X-Mailman-Approved-At: Tue, 25 Jun 2019 18:59:16 -0700 Subject: [netmod] [Technical Errata Reported] RFC8519 (5762) X-BeenThere: netmod@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: NETMOD WG list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 24 Jun 2019 03:58:40 -0000 The following errata report has been submitted for RFC8519, "YANG Data Model for Network Access Control Lists (ACLs)". -------------------------------------- You may review the report below and at: https://www.rfc-editor.org/errata/eid5762 -------------------------------------- Type: Technical Reported by: Qin WU Section: 4.1 Original Text ------------- leaf type { type acl-type; description "Type of ACL. Indicates the primary intended type of match criteria (e.g., Ethernet, IPv4, IPv6, mixed, etc.) used in the list instance."; } Corrected Text -------------- leaf type { type acl-type; default "ipv4-acl-type"; description "Type of ACL. Indicates the primary intended type of match criteria (e.g., Ethernet, IPv4, IPv6, mixed, etc.) used in the list instance."; } Notes ----- I am wondering why not set default value for acl-type,e.g., set default value as "ipv4-acl-type" otherwise, how to determine which field under which choice will be matched upon and which action should be taken on them if the opetional parameter type under acl list is not set. Also I want to better understand why acl type is removed from key indexes of access list and keep it as optional parameter under acl list. One case I am thinking in my mind is we add a mixed Ethernet, IPv4, and IPv6 ACL entry when we already have Ethernet ACL entry,IPv4 ACL entry , we don't need to remove existing ethernet entry and existing IPv4 entry in the list ("aces") and create a new entry with mixed ethernet, IPv4, IPv6 ACL, instead, we just add a new identity called mixed-eth-ipv4-ipv6-acl-type and add a new IPv6 entry. Instructions: ------------- This erratum is currently posted as "Reported". If necessary, please use "Reply All" to discuss whether it should be verified or rejected. When a decision is reached, the verifying party can log in to change the status and edit the report, if necessary. -------------------------------------- RFC8519 (draft-ietf-netmod-acl-model-21) -------------------------------------- Title : YANG Data Model for Network Access Control Lists (ACLs) Publication Date : March 2019 Author(s) : M. Jethanandani, S. Agarwal, L. Huang, D. Blair Category : PROPOSED STANDARD Source : Network Modeling Area : Operations and Management Stream : IETF Verifying Party : IESG From nobody Tue Jun 25 18:59:25 2019 Return-Path: X-Original-To: netmod@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: netmod@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id B65E31200D8 for ; Tue, 25 Jun 2019 15:50:46 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.998 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.998 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=gmail.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 9hAI5smWP1Ne for ; Tue, 25 Jun 2019 15:50:44 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail-pf1-x42a.google.com (mail-pf1-x42a.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:4864:20::42a]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 5D9B9120094 for ; Tue, 25 Jun 2019 15:50:44 -0700 (PDT) Received: by mail-pf1-x42a.google.com with SMTP id x15so191767pfq.0 for ; Tue, 25 Jun 2019 15:50:44 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20161025; h=mime-version:subject:from:in-reply-to:date:cc :content-transfer-encoding:message-id:references:to; bh=vRLnHLbuigN1RoBHJkocmENpfg9F9MxUYgyOfdCTdaM=; b=lfVrIfww5IwVnXP4CcJiRpDNWNtGHAUpa6i3zFa+mNfSQB6/mWRHmvVOWIGK9AcTYB bD5mXwqbX/R5X5FUHrdthcshOwDXrYUnPBh3vg9EsLjtsev1Vakrb9DvnsG2hMccxvtF E1HDlLF5+3XUHDCJ00UvW18uZY3uAdHYn4IY5MKoj6n8BS1v37Wqex/5KiVA/7cdppx4 B5qo3u+NW2asVjMIMfPeqWnNpbLC0TO2/PlOm2s3zweDgGQyZTzC1xTK/+GJTwqO1KcF LhYWQ9zBRmiOfcUjebE/50JCmZvKRr+n7lHpOnGYw+ZlKxTtjtK6AoAJicaG+R9LWJUv MtNg== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:subject:from:in-reply-to:date:cc :content-transfer-encoding:message-id:references:to; bh=vRLnHLbuigN1RoBHJkocmENpfg9F9MxUYgyOfdCTdaM=; b=XCt2qACMchHq4SC5RJMuLnwsaosbfX19Pk3npXYLXiWxa67P+mHCiKUfU2v5c5ARhd GonPyD004NHSfEkxM/qbn1ZB/0n5zf0qGhmyO7re2XmqL4k/+K+IcGEsthGYiiRL8jHu fnIwRIVxzr8Bx4StY5SmUmVais6yPkRHRZGIV86W0JNEVcuv23rW7GuTJ2tlxV+Prmsx YA3LcXbnVtQE1pBxpwR/5zEWdinlmRBZoipi8fecfVTDbkRP/z23ro0M3IXYwx4EJnjt fJeAR2wggypWcSagCYpzmuO8Ze07nit8/MXuMRYCml1IWGypbomD8RQ2uWlRaTRxrKo4 Z9ZA== X-Gm-Message-State: APjAAAXAp6hoYeMYtYpp3LMwpreZictAIklmB1s9hX2hVECWvomJozlu pYdoon1mHBI34spap+XdKTQ= X-Google-Smtp-Source: APXvYqyQv0BtHVc0KPCyJjAH2RsIA67eR4yK5owbdq90iSgQ8b/1nzEKCDOgUKc4us50xLnoeM/+Kg== X-Received: by 2002:a17:90a:ae12:: with SMTP id t18mr382973pjq.32.1561503043681; Tue, 25 Jun 2019 15:50:43 -0700 (PDT) Received: from [10.33.123.154] ([66.170.99.1]) by smtp.gmail.com with ESMTPSA id r2sm27620220pfl.67.2019.06.25.15.50.42 (version=TLS1_2 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 bits=128/128); Tue, 25 Jun 2019 15:50:42 -0700 (PDT) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 11.5 \(3445.9.1\)) From: Mahesh Jethanandani In-Reply-To: <20190624035835.A751EB81C64@rfc-editor.org> Date: Tue, 25 Jun 2019 15:50:41 -0700 Cc: Sonal Agarwal , Yi Huang , dana@blairhome.com, Ignas Bagdonas , Warren Kumari , joelja@bogus.com, Kent Watsen , Lou Berger , bill.wu@huawei.com, netmod@ietf.org Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Message-Id: <572CA971-312C-4EED-BB09-9D866FFDAD16@gmail.com> References: <20190624035835.A751EB81C64@rfc-editor.org> To: RFC Editor X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.3445.9.1) Archived-At: X-Mailman-Approved-At: Tue, 25 Jun 2019 18:59:16 -0700 Subject: Re: [netmod] [Technical Errata Reported] RFC8519 (5762) X-BeenThere: netmod@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: NETMOD WG list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 25 Jun 2019 22:50:47 -0000 This errata should be rejected for the following reason. The whole idea of defining the identities for acl-type was to allow = vendors to specify what capabilities their box is capable of supporting = and then to specify what capabilities the vendors want to support. As = such there is no =E2=80=9Cdefault capability" for every vendor. Besides, = if a device advertises a mixed-eth-ipv4 feature, it is because it can = only support Ethernet and IPv4 ACL combinations, and it cannot support = IPv6 ACL matches. You do not add a capability of IPv6 match on the fly. = It either has it, or it does not. If it does, advertise = mixed-eth-ipv4-ipv6 capability to begin with. > On Jun 23, 2019, at 8:58 PM, RFC Errata System = wrote: >=20 > The following errata report has been submitted for RFC8519, > "YANG Data Model for Network Access Control Lists (ACLs)". >=20 > -------------------------------------- > You may review the report below and at: > https://www.rfc-editor.org/errata/eid5762 >=20 > -------------------------------------- > Type: Technical > Reported by: Qin WU >=20 > Section: 4.1 >=20 > Original Text > ------------- > leaf type { > type acl-type; > description > "Type of ACL. Indicates the primary intended > type of match criteria (e.g., Ethernet,=20 > IPv4, IPv6, mixed, etc.) used in the list > instance."; > } >=20 > Corrected Text > -------------- > leaf type { > type acl-type; > default "ipv4-acl-type"; > description > "Type of ACL. Indicates the primary intended > type of match criteria (e.g., Ethernet,=20 > IPv4, IPv6, mixed, etc.) used in the list > instance."; > } >=20 > Notes > ----- > I am wondering why not set default value for acl-type,e.g., set = default value as "ipv4-acl-type" otherwise, how to determine which field = under which choice will be matched upon and which action should be taken = on them if the opetional parameter type under acl list is not set. >=20 > Also I want to better understand why acl type is removed from key = indexes of access list and keep it as optional parameter under acl list. = One case I am thinking in my mind is we add a mixed Ethernet, IPv4, and = IPv6 ACL entry when we already have Ethernet ACL entry,IPv4 ACL entry , = we don't need to remove existing ethernet entry and existing IPv4 entry = in the list ("aces") and create a new entry with mixed ethernet, IPv4, = IPv6 ACL, instead, we just add a new identity called = mixed-eth-ipv4-ipv6-acl-type and add a new IPv6 entry. >=20 > Instructions: > ------------- > This erratum is currently posted as "Reported". If necessary, please > use "Reply All" to discuss whether it should be verified or > rejected. When a decision is reached, the verifying party =20 > can log in to change the status and edit the report, if necessary.=20 >=20 > -------------------------------------- > RFC8519 (draft-ietf-netmod-acl-model-21) > -------------------------------------- > Title : YANG Data Model for Network Access Control Lists = (ACLs) > Publication Date : March 2019 > Author(s) : M. Jethanandani, S. Agarwal, L. Huang, D. Blair > Category : PROPOSED STANDARD > Source : Network Modeling > Area : Operations and Management > Stream : IETF > Verifying Party : IESG Mahesh Jethanandani mjethanandani@gmail.com From nobody Tue Jun 25 18:59:33 2019 Return-Path: X-Original-To: netmod@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: netmod@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 555EA1200DF for ; Tue, 25 Jun 2019 18:19:38 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -4.2 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-4.2 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-2.3, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id QGlFY_xOtUuz for ; Tue, 25 Jun 2019 18:19:35 -0700 (PDT) Received: from huawei.com (lhrrgout.huawei.com [185.176.76.210]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 7F61F120041 for ; Tue, 25 Jun 2019 18:19:35 -0700 (PDT) Received: from lhreml704-cah.china.huawei.com (unknown [172.18.7.106]) by Forcepoint Email with ESMTP id E70941BF15FE8265F420; Wed, 26 Jun 2019 02:19:32 +0100 (IST) Received: from NKGEML412-HUB.china.huawei.com (10.98.56.73) by lhreml704-cah.china.huawei.com (10.201.108.45) with Microsoft SMTP Server (TLS) id 14.3.408.0; Wed, 26 Jun 2019 02:19:32 +0100 Received: from NKGEML513-MBX.china.huawei.com ([169.254.1.66]) by nkgeml412-hub.china.huawei.com ([10.98.56.73]) with mapi id 14.03.0415.000; Wed, 26 Jun 2019 09:16:37 +0800 From: Qin Wu To: Mahesh Jethanandani , RFC Editor CC: Sonal Agarwal , Yi Huang , "dana@blairhome.com" , Ignas Bagdonas , Warren Kumari , "joelja@bogus.com" , Kent Watsen , Lou Berger , "netmod@ietf.org" Thread-Topic: [Technical Errata Reported] RFC8519 (5762) Thread-Index: AdUru/8o/zy556udRRiUnKV/NtcQvg== Date: Wed, 26 Jun 2019 01:16:36 +0000 Message-ID: Accept-Language: zh-CN, en-US Content-Language: zh-CN X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-originating-ip: [10.134.31.203] Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-CFilter-Loop: Reflected Archived-At: X-Mailman-Approved-At: Tue, 25 Jun 2019 18:59:16 -0700 Subject: Re: [netmod] [Technical Errata Reported] RFC8519 (5762) X-BeenThere: netmod@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: NETMOD WG list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 26 Jun 2019 01:19:38 -0000 VGhhbmtzIE1haGVzaCBmb3IgY2xhcmlmaWNhdGlvbiwgb25lIGZvbGxvdyB1cCBxdWVzdGlvbiBp cw0KV2h5IGFjbCB0eXBlIGlzIGRlZmluZWQgYXMgYW4gb3B0aW9uYWwgcGFyYW1ldGVyLCB3ZSB1 c2Ugd2hlbiBzdGF0ZW1lbnQgZm9yIGVhY2ggY2hvaWNlLCBsZXQncyBzYXkNCiINCiAgICAgICAg ICAgIGNob2ljZSBsMiB7DQogICAgICAgICAgICAgIGNvbnRhaW5lciBldGggew0KICAgICAgICAg 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d=yumaworks-com.20150623.gappssmtp.com; s=20150623; h=mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date:message-id:subject:to :cc; bh=E64gBMgTVoaDlbzB7pVwLzc+AQ1gR8RK2l+QCJlfTaE=; b=WYQH8WoyOcLm1Qhfyv7xu5yDjbgW6GIy2MCuAVVJqoBViL8i6d6Jiuhs4Gz1Qm8bjI zob87uYuNk8VWjASwBB5GMEWB+J1m5hLZ+9rqUefI4Z7MN0YdusBZmTVvdmZtPTlM1fk 9eLvuNOwWeAwNo2yLXrfAoXyzLT2Z+/Mxeyprwy0+yJ2byNHkWGdvrombxDTgX5B4Aie M26ypbHBI9MIDx6BuCo/jyGS2dVj1eustVpiXv8ZXTYCFjfbsDo27RqckEx8N4n/l8rz xSQNMp3RM44JL/MG0UG0dAt2r2Uxd2kACcufkBRQrWgTfclVsOyJMG17Q+kvEw+upw/Y 2/mg== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date :message-id:subject:to:cc; bh=E64gBMgTVoaDlbzB7pVwLzc+AQ1gR8RK2l+QCJlfTaE=; b=JrqlEVPEzbYAyHpetERiRsTLpHE2m0c3Y4C8ZfxDOm+aXy4PMaYpnGA0yz/HFh1tpq j5EaaKb8+bs7enzp4RPM+RoZqm1VYsbDI9qaF7v7LSKmHaz6EYfA/DLiqXsYZdPawO8d zI/YXuCZdee8wKf6NZdiA/lbM6oecq7n9dysWsbt6RqJkUoXss6cywmzkphxzDJAllq0 gKfCGUd5eNlz8CArGDINVVcOH2fnDHse9CXauUHbQ3EosTc5Ctjx7b1jhGNww70ibkBa ivk13kO9sW/yD+MXJ4AzAtUzNI9Il/vEFHffNFswPg5GBbrBqYP8ch0TumQfc4FRyHJ2 WBAg== X-Gm-Message-State: APjAAAUkEmt9P1tjLzCZFtTwi8+1BfyHSHpSW/JQKovypqkFcJbXIYfq Acc6k0zGhDigqIKBlCOFdlOdczzqwOnnQuwzEjBH1g== X-Google-Smtp-Source: APXvYqzM7bgq+FdKC9ZgACOysDI76gNRmaK2w10ycWrMpNfITrqDTWcsEICLzLgR1YI6vWe0TJLhK9A6KlV6Nu6ImW0= X-Received: by 2002:a2e:9657:: with SMTP id z23mr955961ljh.116.1561514939978; Tue, 25 Jun 2019 19:08:59 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 References: <20190624035835.A751EB81C64@rfc-editor.org> <572CA971-312C-4EED-BB09-9D866FFDAD16@gmail.com> In-Reply-To: <572CA971-312C-4EED-BB09-9D866FFDAD16@gmail.com> From: Andy Bierman Date: Tue, 25 Jun 2019 19:08:49 -0700 Message-ID: To: Mahesh Jethanandani Cc: RFC Editor , Ignas Bagdonas , dana@blairhome.com, NetMod WG , Warren Kumari , Yi Huang Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="0000000000004f2904058c3087a7" Archived-At: Subject: Re: [netmod] [Technical Errata Reported] RFC8519 (5762) X-BeenThere: netmod@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: NETMOD WG list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 26 Jun 2019 02:09:10 -0000 --0000000000004f2904058c3087a7 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable On Tue, Jun 25, 2019 at 6:59 PM Mahesh Jethanandani wrote: > This errata should be rejected for the following reason. > > This errata should be rejected because the Errata process cannot be used to update a module. The normal WG document process needs to be used instead. A new revision of the module is needed to add a default-stmt to a leaf. Andy The whole idea of defining the identities for acl-type was to allow vendors > to specify what capabilities their box is capable of supporting and then = to > specify what capabilities the vendors want to support. As such there is n= o > =E2=80=9Cdefault capability" for every vendor. Besides, if a device adver= tises a > mixed-eth-ipv4 feature, it is because it can only support Ethernet and IP= v4 > ACL combinations, and it cannot support IPv6 ACL matches. You do not add = a > capability of IPv6 match on the fly. It either has it, or it does not. If > it does, advertise mixed-eth-ipv4-ipv6 capability to begin with. > > > On Jun 23, 2019, at 8:58 PM, RFC Errata System < > rfc-editor@rfc-editor.org> wrote: > > > > The following errata report has been submitted for RFC8519, > > "YANG Data Model for Network Access Control Lists (ACLs)". > > > > -------------------------------------- > > You may review the report below and at: > > https://www.rfc-editor.org/errata/eid5762 > > > > -------------------------------------- > > Type: Technical > > Reported by: Qin WU > > > > Section: 4.1 > > > > Original Text > > ------------- > > leaf type { > > type acl-type; > > description > > "Type of ACL. Indicates the primary intended > > type of match criteria (e.g., Ethernet, > > IPv4, IPv6, mixed, etc.) used in the list > > instance."; > > } > > > > Corrected Text > > -------------- > > leaf type { > > type acl-type; > > default "ipv4-acl-type"; > > description > > "Type of ACL. Indicates the primary intended > > type of match criteria (e.g., Ethernet, > > IPv4, IPv6, mixed, etc.) used in the list > > instance."; > > } > > > > Notes > > ----- > > I am wondering why not set default value for acl-type,e.g., set defaul= t > value as "ipv4-acl-type" otherwise, how to determine which field under > which choice will be matched upon and which action should be taken on the= m > if the opetional parameter type under acl list is not set. > > > > Also I want to better understand why acl type is removed from key > indexes of access list and keep it as optional parameter under acl list. > One case I am thinking in my mind is we add a mixed Ethernet, IPv4, and > IPv6 ACL entry when we already have Ethernet ACL entry,IPv4 ACL entry , w= e > don't need to remove existing ethernet entry and existing IPv4 entry in t= he > list ("aces") and create a new entry with mixed ethernet, IPv4, IPv6 ACL, > instead, we just add a new identity called mixed-eth-ipv4-ipv6-acl-type a= nd > add a new IPv6 entry. > > > > Instructions: > > ------------- > > This erratum is currently posted as "Reported". If necessary, please > > use "Reply All" to discuss whether it should be verified or > > rejected. When a decision is reached, the verifying party > > can log in to change the status and edit the report, if necessary. > > > > -------------------------------------- > > RFC8519 (draft-ietf-netmod-acl-model-21) > > -------------------------------------- > > Title : YANG Data Model for Network Access Control Lists > (ACLs) > > Publication Date : March 2019 > > Author(s) : M. Jethanandani, S. Agarwal, L. Huang, D. Blair > > Category : PROPOSED STANDARD > > Source : Network Modeling > > Area : Operations and Management > > Stream : IETF > > Verifying Party : IESG > > Mahesh Jethanandani > mjethanandani@gmail.com > > > > _______________________________________________ > netmod mailing list > netmod@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/netmod > --0000000000004f2904058c3087a7 Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable


=
On Tue, Jun 25, 2019 at 6:59 PM Mahes= h Jethanandani <mjethanandani= @gmail.com> wrote:
This errata should be rejected for the following reason.


This errata should be rejected because= the Errata process cannot be used to update a module.
The normal= WG document process needs to be used instead.
=C2=A0A new revisi= on of the module is needed to add a default-stmt to a leaf.

<= /div>

Andy



<= /div>
The whole idea of defining the identities for acl-type was to allow vendors= to specify what capabilities their box is capable of supporting and then t= o specify what capabilities the vendors want to support. As such there is n= o =E2=80=9Cdefault capability" for every vendor. Besides, if a device = advertises a mixed-eth-ipv4 feature, it is because it can only support Ethe= rnet and IPv4 ACL combinations, and it cannot support IPv6 ACL matches. You= do not add a capability of IPv6 match on the fly. It either has it, or it = does not. If it does, advertise mixed-eth-ipv4-ipv6 capability to begin wit= h.

> On Jun 23, 2019, at 8:58 PM, RFC Errata System <rfc-editor@rfc-editor.org&g= t; wrote:
>
> The following errata report has been submitted for RFC8519,
> "YANG Data Model for Network Access Control Lists (ACLs)". >
> --------------------------------------
> You may review the report below and at:
> https://www.rfc-editor.org/errata/eid5762
>
> --------------------------------------
> Type: Technical
> Reported by: Qin WU <bill.wu@huawei.com>
>
> Section: 4.1
>
> Original Text
> -------------
> leaf type {
> type acl-type;
> description
>=C2=A0 "Type of ACL.=C2=A0 Indicates the primary intended
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0type of match criteria (e.g., Ethernet,
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0IPv4, IPv6, mixed, etc.) used in the list
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0instance.";
> }
>
> Corrected Text
> --------------
> leaf type {
> type acl-type;
> default "ipv4-acl-type";
> description
>=C2=A0 "Type of ACL.=C2=A0 Indicates the primary intended
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0type of match criteria (e.g., Ethernet,
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0IPv4, IPv6, mixed, etc.) used in the list
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0instance.";
> }
>
> Notes
> -----
> I am wondering why not=C2=A0 set default value for acl-type,e.g., set = default value as "ipv4-acl-type" otherwise, how to determine whic= h field under which choice will be matched upon and which action should be = taken on them if the opetional parameter type under acl list is not set. >
> Also I want to better understand why acl type is removed from key inde= xes of access list and keep it as optional parameter under acl list. One ca= se I am thinking in my mind is we add a mixed Ethernet, IPv4, and IPv6 ACL = entry when we already have Ethernet ACL entry,IPv4 ACL entry , we don't= need to remove existing ethernet entry and existing IPv4 entry in the list= ("aces") and create a new entry with mixed ethernet, IPv4, IPv6 = ACL, instead, we just add a new identity called mixed-eth-ipv4-ipv6-acl-typ= e and add a new IPv6 entry.
>
> Instructions:
> -------------
> This erratum is currently posted as "Reported". If necessary= , please
> use "Reply All" to discuss whether it should be verified or<= br> > rejected. When a decision is reached, the verifying party=C2=A0
> can log in to change the status and edit the report, if necessary. >
> --------------------------------------
> RFC8519 (draft-ietf-netmod-acl-model-21)
> --------------------------------------
> Title=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0: YANG Dat= a Model for Network Access Control Lists (ACLs)
> Publication Date=C2=A0 =C2=A0 : March 2019
> Author(s)=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0: M. Jethanandani, S= . Agarwal, L. Huang, D. Blair
> Category=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 : PROPOSED STANDARD<= br> > Source=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 : Network Model= ing
> Area=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 : Operatio= ns and Management
> Stream=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 : IETF
> Verifying Party=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0: IESG

Mahesh Jethanandani
mjethanandani@= gmail.com



_______________________________________________
netmod mailing list
netmod@ietf.org https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/netmod
--0000000000004f2904058c3087a7-- From nobody Wed Jun 26 00:01:22 2019 Return-Path: X-Original-To: netmod@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: netmod@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7BB84120122 for ; Wed, 26 Jun 2019 00:01:19 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -6.996 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-6.996 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAD_ENC_HEADER=0.001, BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_HI=-5, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_NONE=0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (1024-bit key) header.d=nic.cz Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 8cmwgdMKcg6x for ; Wed, 26 Jun 2019 00:01:16 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail.nic.cz (mail.nic.cz [IPv6:2001:1488:800:400::400]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 190281201E8 for ; Wed, 26 Jun 2019 00:01:15 -0700 (PDT) Received: from birdie (176.100.broadband6.iol.cz [88.101.100.176]) by mail.nic.cz (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id EC2771409A6; Wed, 26 Jun 2019 09:01:09 +0200 (CEST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/simple; d=nic.cz; s=default; t=1561532473; bh=fkjUOUUJT1eAeBWLaIbxGPKZ5K0eTWQo7TMC3v8zRvA=; h=From:To:Date; b=p7ecy6I9DnwP0Gib/wqBHpwgfoowobfox6JYnyWfQtX8x39O6YbIQ1BCgz/LaY3EY zl1SJTIx/jh4pAtJT/YSAvY4huse3OiPwy+7tcje+RjORWRYoDd/VQdx6xO5Mqrnyq ekSLs/cTAGWt9g1riV5JDEWkpl3C3GFuL38vc2SA= Message-ID: From: Ladislav Lhotka To: "Rob Wilton (rwilton)" , "netmod@ietf.org" Date: Wed, 26 Jun 2019 09:01:00 +0200 In-Reply-To: References: <791d-5d120380-25-51599d00@91535824> <20190625.135902.1021903277794682233.mbj@tail-f.com> <41409287f28be0e30e4bc29ef44f755434f6567f.camel@nic.cz> Organization: CZ.NIC Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" User-Agent: Evolution 3.32.3 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Virus-Scanned: clamav-milter 0.100.3 at mail.nic.cz X-Virus-Status: Clean Archived-At: Subject: Re: [netmod] ?= ?==?utf-8?q? mandatory choice with non-presence container cas X-BeenThere: netmod@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: NETMOD WG list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 26 Jun 2019 07:01:20 -0000 On Tue, 2019-06-25 at 13:49 +0000, Rob Wilton (rwilton) wrote: > > -----Original Message----- > > From: netmod On Behalf Of Ladislav Lhotka > > Sent: 25 June 2019 14:14 > > To: netmod@ietf.org > > Subject: Re: [netmod] ?= ?==?utf-8?q? mandatory choice with non-presence > > container cas > > > > On Tue, 2019-06-25 at 13:59 +0200, Martin Bjorklund wrote: > > > Michal Vaško wrote: > > > > Hi Rob, > > > > actually, I have used model with the container TOP just for > > > > simplification, I have encountered the issue while implementing > > > > ietf-ssh-server model from its current draft. I have created the > > > > container "users" [1] without any "user" list instances. Now, you > > > > may argue that this is still not a valid use-case because there are > > > > no users but I only tried to satisfy the condition. > > > > > > Yes, I think that this list (user) should have a "min-elements 1". I > > > think that matches the i ntent. > > > > Interestingly, the "users" container actually becomes a P-container: its > > presence indicates that the corresponding case is selected. > > I don't think that this makes it a P-container. Not formally, according to the current rules, but effectively "the container itself carries some meaning" (sec. 7.5.1). > > > > It might make > > sense for an admin to select this case even before any users are > > configured. > > Sure, the "users" container could have been marked as having presence in the > YANG model. > > > > This example also exposes the drawback of the XML representation - it > > cannot distinguish between an empty list and nothing. In JSON, the > > problems of this thread could potentially be circumvented by configuring > > > > "users" : { > > "user" : [ > > ] > > } > > I don't think that an empty list "exists" in a configuration datastore, i.e. I I am not sure about this, it possibly depends on an implementation. Lada > don't think that it should impart any meaning, in that regard is seems > somewhat like an NP-container. > > Thanks, > Rob > > > > Lada > > > > > /martin > > > > > > > > > > > > > There are some users > > > > on the system but they are generated into the configuration > > > > on-demand when operational data is requested. > > > > > > > > Regards, > > > > Michal > > > > > > > > [1] > > > > https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-netconf-ssh-client-server-14# > > > > page-22 > > > > > > > > On Tuesday, June 25, 2019 11:08 CEST, "Rob Wilton (rwilton)" > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > Hi Michal, > > > > > > > > > > It is not the printing of the data that makes it valid/invalid. > > > > > > > > > > I don't think that your input data was ever valid, because > > > > > "container C" doesn't satisfy the mandatory statement because it > > > > > isn't a real data node in the tree - it is instantiated when > > > > > required and may be deleted when it is no longer required. > > > > > > > > > > I.e. your model has been designed such that it can never be > > satisfied. > > > > > > > > > > If your model was instead: > > > > > > > > > > container TOP { > > > > > leaf L { > > > > > type empty; > > > > > } > > > > > choice A { > > > > > mandatory true; > > > > > container C { > > > > > leaf L2 { > > > > > type empty; > > > > > } > > > > > } > > > > > } > > > > > } > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Then this data is valid: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > But this data is not: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Nor is this, which is directly equivalent to the one above, > > > > > because the container doesn't really exist if it doesn't have > > > > > a child node present. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Thanks, > > > > > Rob > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > > > > From: Michal Vaško > > > > > > Sent: 24 June 2019 18:15 > > > > > > To: Andy Bierman > > > > > > Cc: Rob Wilton (rwilton) ; netmod > > > > > > > > > > > > Subject: Re: [netmod] ?= mandatory choice with non-presence > > > > > > container cas > > > > > > > > > > > > Hi Andy, > > > > > > > > > > > > On Monday, June 24, 2019 19:11 CEST, Andy Bierman > > > > > > > > > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > On Mon, Jun 24, 2019 at 10:01 AM Michal Vaško > > > > > > > > > > > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Hi Rob, > > > > > > > > I think there is a problem in the RFC because using only > > > > > > > > allowed steps I got invalid data from initially valid data. > > > > > > > > That cannot be > > > > > > correct. > > > > > > > No. See sec. 7.5.7 > > > > > > > > > > > > > > If a non-presence container does not have any child nodes, > > the > > > > > > > container may or may not be present in the XML encoding. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Just because your retrieval does not contain the NP-container, > > > > > > > that does not mean the NP-container was not present in the > > > > > > > server for the mandatory-stmt validation. > > > > > > > > > > > > I agree, but these valid data were correctly printed into > > > > > > invalid data. I do not think printing is allowed to change the > > > > > > validity of data. > > > > > > > > > > > > Michal > > > > > > > > > > > > > Regards, > > > > > > > > Michal > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Andy > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > On Monday, June 24, 2019 18:52 CEST, "Rob Wilton (rwilton)" > > > > > > > > < rwilton@cisco.com> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Hi Michal, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > My thoughts: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > According to 7.5.1: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > In the first style, the container has no meaning of its > > > > > > > > > own, > > > > > > existing > > > > > > > > > only to contain child nodes. In particular, the > > > > > > > > > presence of the > > > > > > > > > container node with no child nodes is semantically > > > > > > > > > equivalent to > > > > > > the > > > > > > > > > absence of the container node. YANG calls this style a > > > > > > > > > "non- > > > > > > presence > > > > > > > > > container". This is the default style. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Hence your request (because the NP container does not have > > > > > > > > > any > > > > > > > > > children) > > > > > > > > is equivalent to: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > which fails the "mandatory" check. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Thanks, > > > > > > > > > Rob > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > > > > > > > > From: netmod On Behalf Of > > > > > > > > > > Michal Vaško > > > > > > > > > > Sent: 24 June 2019 17:39 > > > > > > > > > > To: netmod > > > > > > > > > > Subject: [netmod] mandatory choice with non-presence > > > > > > > > > > container case > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Hi, > > > > > > > > > > I have encountered a situation that I think is not > > > > > > > > > > covered by RFC > > > > > > > > 7950. My > > > > > > > > > > specific use-case was as follows. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > model: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > container TOP { > > > > > > > > > > leaf L { > > > > > > > > > > type empty; > > > > > > > > > > } > > > > > > > > > > choice A { > > > > > > > > > > mandatory true; > > > > > > > > > > container C; > > > > > > > > > > } > > > > > > > > > > } > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > data: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Parsing was successful, but printing these data back to > > > > > > > > > > XML > > > > > > produced: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > and parsing this correctly failed with missing mandatory > > choice. > > > > > > > > According > > > > > > > > > > to section 7.5.7 [1], I think the C container could be > > > > > > > > > > omitted but the whole situation does not seem correct. > > > > > > > > > > Thank you for any > > > > > > input. > > > > > > > > > > Regards, > > > > > > > > > > Michal > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > [1] https://tools.ietf.org/html/rfc7950#section-7.5.7 > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > > > > > > > > > netmod mailing list > > > > > > > > > > netmod@ietf.org > > > > > > > > > > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/netmod > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > > > > > > > netmod mailing list > > > > > > > > netmod@ietf.org > > > > > > > > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/netmod > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > > > netmod mailing list > > > > netmod@ietf.org > > > > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/netmod > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > > netmod mailing list > > > netmod@ietf.org > > > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/netmod > > -- > > Ladislav Lhotka > > Head, CZ.NIC Labs > > PGP Key ID: 0xB8F92B08A9F76C67 > > > > _______________________________________________ > > netmod mailing list > > netmod@ietf.org > > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/netmod -- Ladislav Lhotka Head, CZ.NIC Labs PGP Key ID: 0xB8F92B08A9F76C67 From nobody Wed Jun 26 02:15:30 2019 Return-Path: X-Original-To: netmod@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: netmod@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3DEDD120230 for ; Wed, 26 Jun 2019 02:15:29 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -14.499 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-14.499 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAD_ENC_HEADER=0.001, BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_HI=-5, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001, USER_IN_DEF_DKIM_WL=-7.5] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no 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a2ENCj4gSGVhZCwgQ1ouTklDIExhYnMNCj4gUEdQIEtleSBJRDogMHhCOEY5MkIwOEE5Rjc2QzY3 DQoNCg== From nobody Wed Jun 26 16:09:15 2019 Return-Path: <0100016b960cd1ff-1116daaf-9f7a-4c8a-9963-8416e956f9e7-000000@amazonses.watsen.net> X-Original-To: netmod@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: netmod@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id DE6691201A2 for ; Wed, 26 Jun 2019 16:09:13 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.396 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.396 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_NONE=0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001, URI_NOVOWEL=0.5] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (1024-bit key) header.d=amazonses.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id EXzxH5VwQyrI for ; Wed, 26 Jun 2019 16:09:12 -0700 (PDT) Received: from a8-96.smtp-out.amazonses.com (a8-96.smtp-out.amazonses.com [54.240.8.96]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 7BB4F12018B for ; Wed, 26 Jun 2019 16:09:12 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; q=dns/txt; c=relaxed/simple; s=6gbrjpgwjskckoa6a5zn6fwqkn67xbtw; d=amazonses.com; t=1561590551; h=From:Content-Type:Mime-Version:Subject:Date:References:To:In-Reply-To:Message-Id:Feedback-ID; bh=t+/OWdWfF1fJnGXIkT/unN0gPp1t/U5T7VxkJm+HEIg=; b=fgTgyCydmpzSusTCAEx4h421Fn6B0ChVxY2GdaVTcsyVeX3pIq70C00ox2XQrYqN TnhShcIMZRGbnMBgVRma8JO+kfvJzkcvyNX9omEugrDdGYCZx8wHdmRMey4m3q5I7lA l2fq6doxD3lKeWgG03ubV58UUEeRJkIYd53Yprg8= From: Kent Watsen Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="Apple-Mail=_F99E2346-3313-4201-BFA0-FC3330126C7D" Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 12.4 \(3445.104.11\)) Date: Wed, 26 Jun 2019 23:09:11 +0000 References: <156103580586.3118.4581112081528143968@ietfa.amsl.com> <0100016b74ff8507-2337966b-5eab-4dba-9c95-1ffbd94197da-000000@email.amazonses.com> <002101d5276d$e1580be0$a40823a0$@olddog.co.uk> To: "netmod@ietf.org" In-Reply-To: <002101d5276d$e1580be0$a40823a0$@olddog.co.uk> Message-ID: <0100016b960cd1ff-1116daaf-9f7a-4c8a-9963-8416e956f9e7-000000@email.amazonses.com> X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.3445.104.11) X-SES-Outgoing: 2019.06.26-54.240.8.96 Feedback-ID: 1.us-east-1.DKmIRZFhhsBhtmFMNikgwZUWVrODEw9qVcPhqJEI2DA=:AmazonSES Archived-At: Subject: Re: [netmod] I-D Action: draft-ietf-netmod-artwork-folding-05.txt X-BeenThere: netmod@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: NETMOD WG list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 26 Jun 2019 23:09:14 -0000 --Apple-Mail=_F99E2346-3313-4201-BFA0-FC3330126C7D Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii All, The non-normative script in this draft received a few pull requests from = an interested party outside our WG. I plan to publish an update shortly incorporating them, but I just = realized the the name of the script should be improved. Especially as = some consider distributing it with their systems. Currently it is = called "fold-artwork.sh", but the word "artwork" fell out of favor = awhile ago, here are some options: 0) fold-artwork.sh <---- current 1) fold-sourcecode.sh 2) fold-text.sh 3) fold.sh 4) rfcxxxx.sh // where "xxxx" is replaced by RFC Editor Any preferences or other suggestions? Thanks, Kent // author --Apple-Mail=_F99E2346-3313-4201-BFA0-FC3330126C7D Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/html; charset=us-ascii
All,

The non-normative script in this draft received a few pull = requests from an interested party outside our WG.
I plan to publish an update shortly = incorporating them, but I just realized the the name of the script = should be improved.  Especially as some consider distributing it = with their systems.   Currently it is called "fold-artwork.sh", but = the word "artwork" fell out of favor awhile ago, here are some = options:

  =   0) fold-artwork.sh  <---- current
    1) fold-sourcecode.sh
 =   2) fold-text.sh
    3) = fold.sh
    4) rfcxxxx.sh     =   // where "xxxx" is replaced by RFC Editor

Any preferences or other = suggestions?

Thanks,
Kent  // author


= --Apple-Mail=_F99E2346-3313-4201-BFA0-FC3330126C7D-- From nobody Wed Jun 26 19:02:53 2019 Return-Path: X-Original-To: netmod@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: netmod@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 50687120124; Wed, 26 Jun 2019 19:02:44 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -4.199 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-4.199 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-2.3, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id aLrwH1e9e-wu; Wed, 26 Jun 2019 19:02:42 -0700 (PDT) Received: from huawei.com (lhrrgout.huawei.com [185.176.76.210]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id A87FF12006B; Wed, 26 Jun 2019 19:02:41 -0700 (PDT) Received: from lhreml704-cah.china.huawei.com (unknown [172.18.7.106]) by Forcepoint Email with ESMTP id 0881B9334E23E2C6F631; Thu, 27 Jun 2019 03:02:39 +0100 (IST) Received: from DGGEMM424-HUB.china.huawei.com (10.1.198.41) by lhreml704-cah.china.huawei.com (10.201.108.45) with Microsoft SMTP Server (TLS) id 14.3.408.0; Thu, 27 Jun 2019 03:02:30 +0100 Received: from DGGEMM513-MBX.china.huawei.com ([169.254.1.175]) by dggemm424-hub.china.huawei.com ([10.1.198.41]) with mapi id 14.03.0439.000; Thu, 27 Jun 2019 09:58:57 +0800 From: "Fengchong (frank)" To: "netconf@ietf.org" , "netmod@ietf.org" CC: Yangshouchuan , "Zhangwei (SS)" Thread-Topic: pls clarify get operation Thread-Index: AdUsiu4JIzTUBFYNTIGSUYTtxnFLqw== Date: Thu, 27 Jun 2019 01:58:55 +0000 Message-ID: <5756FB984666AD4BB8E1D63E2E3AA3D001ED5272@dggemm513-mbx.china.huawei.com> Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: zh-CN X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-originating-ip: [10.134.40.226] Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="_000_5756FB984666AD4BB8E1D63E2E3AA3D001ED5272dggemm513mbxchi_" MIME-Version: 1.0 X-CFilter-Loop: Reflected Archived-At: Subject: [netmod] pls clarify get operation X-BeenThere: netmod@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: NETMOD WG list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 27 Jun 2019 02:02:44 -0000 --_000_5756FB984666AD4BB8E1D63E2E3AA3D001ED5272dggemm513mbxchi_ Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hi all, In RFC6241, get operation is defined as: 7.7. Description: Retrieve running configuration and device state information. This description is too simply, so I think it should be clarified. The case is: a data node modelled by one yang can be configured by user, bu= t also can be created/modified by system or other protocols. If client issu= es get operation to retrieve this node, The data is created/modified by system or other protocols SHOULD = be returned? For example: Rib can be configured by user and also can be created by routing = protocols. In RFC 8349, the rib list is defined as: +--rw ribs +--rw rib* [name] +--rw name string +--rw address-family? identityref +--ro default-rib? boolean {multiple-ribs}? +--ro routes | +--ro route* | ... +---x active-route | +---w input | | +---w v4ur:destination-address? inet:ipv4-address | | +---w v6ur:destination-address? inet:ipv6-address | +--ro output | ... +--rw description? string If client issued get operation to retrieve ribs from non-NMDA device= , rib instance created by routing protocols should be returned? Another associated question: If client issued get-config operation f= rom non-NMDA device, only user-controlled rib instance should be returned? --_000_5756FB984666AD4BB8E1D63E2E3AA3D001ED5272dggemm513mbxchi_ Content-Type: text/html; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

Hi all,

In= RFC6241, get operation is defined as:

7= .7.  <get>

 &nbs=
p; Description:  Retrieve running configuration and device state<=
/o:p>
 &nbs=
p;    information.

Th= is description is too simply, so I think it should be clarified.=

 

Th= e case is: a data node modelled by one yang can be configured by user, but = also can be created/modified by system or other protocols. If client issues= get operation to retrieve this node,

&n= bsp;         The data is created/mo= dified by system or other protocols SHOULD be returned?

&n= bsp;         For example:

&n= bsp;         Rib can be configured = by user and also can be created by routing protocols. In RFC 8349, the rib = list is defined as:

 =
;
 &nbs=
p;    +--rw ribs
 &nbs=
p;       +--rw rib* [name]
 &nbs=
p;          +--rw name&nbs=
p;             =
string
 &nbs=
p;          +--rw address-=
family?   identityref
 &nbs=
p;          +--ro default-=
rib?      boolean {multiple-ribs}?
 &nbs=
p;          +--ro routes
 &nbs=
p;          |  +--ro =
route*
 &nbs=
p;          |   =
;     ...
 &nbs=
p;          +---x active-r=
oute
 &nbs=
p;          |  +---w =
input
 &nbs=
p;          |  |  &#=
43;---w v4ur:destination-address?   inet:ipv4-address<=
/span>
 &nbs=
p;          |  |  &#=
43;---w v6ur:destination-address?   inet:ipv6-address<=
/span>
 &nbs=
p;          |  +--ro =
output
 &nbs=
p;          |   =
;     ...
 &nbs=
p;          +--rw descript=
ion?      string
 =
;
 &nbs=
p;     If client issued get operation to retrieve ribs =
from non-NMDA device, rib instance created by routing protocols should be r=
eturned?
 &nbs=
p;     Another associated question: If client issued ge=
t-config operation from non-NMDA device, only user-controlled rib instance =
should be returned?  

 

--_000_5756FB984666AD4BB8E1D63E2E3AA3D001ED5272dggemm513mbxchi_-- From nobody Wed Jun 26 19:13:17 2019 Return-Path: X-Original-To: netmod@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: netmod@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8DB07120288 for ; Wed, 26 Jun 2019 19:13:15 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -4.2 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-4.2 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-2.3, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id nXpgbBS-r9lQ for ; Wed, 26 Jun 2019 19:13:13 -0700 (PDT) Received: from huawei.com (lhrrgout.huawei.com [185.176.76.210]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 7681A120152 for ; Wed, 26 Jun 2019 19:13:13 -0700 (PDT) Received: from lhreml705-cah.china.huawei.com (unknown [172.18.7.108]) by Forcepoint Email with ESMTP id 645197BD63F6A21BBD31; Thu, 27 Jun 2019 03:13:11 +0100 (IST) Received: from DGGEMM405-HUB.china.huawei.com (10.3.20.213) by lhreml705-cah.china.huawei.com (10.201.108.46) with Microsoft SMTP Server (TLS) id 14.3.408.0; Thu, 27 Jun 2019 03:13:11 +0100 Received: from DGGEMM513-MBX.china.huawei.com ([169.254.1.175]) by DGGEMM405-HUB.china.huawei.com ([10.3.20.213]) with mapi id 14.03.0439.000; Thu, 27 Jun 2019 10:13:04 +0800 From: "Fengchong (frank)" To: Martin Bjorklund , "j.schoenwaelder@jacobs-university.de" , Andy Bierman CC: "netmod@ietf.org" Thread-Topic: [netmod] FW: a question about ietf-hardware yang module Thread-Index: AdUq+YdXGa8CTR9FQVSH0+UgSIb59P//fjcAgAA8qICAABcKgIAAB0SAgAAEjoD//LVdQA== Date: Thu, 27 Jun 2019 02:13:03 +0000 Message-ID: <5756FB984666AD4BB8E1D63E2E3AA3D001ED52AD@dggemm513-mbx.china.huawei.com> References: <20190625055123.ia2k5vv5tfhzqqs2@anna.jacobs.jacobs-university.de> <20190625.091351.1767393704172151256.mbj@tail-f.com> <20190625073951.snh66hqbvd6cllmk@anna.jacobs.jacobs-university.de> <20190625.095609.527966383793151431.mbj@tail-f.com> In-Reply-To: <20190625.095609.527966383793151431.mbj@tail-f.com> Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: zh-CN X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-originating-ip: [10.134.40.226] Content-Type: text/plain; charset="gb2312" Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-CFilter-Loop: Reflected Archived-At: Subject: [netmod] =?gb2312?b?tPC4tDogIEZXOiBhIHF1ZXN0aW9uIGFib3V0IGlldGYt?= =?gb2312?b?aGFyZHdhcmUgeWFuZyBtb2R1bGU=?= X-BeenThere: netmod@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: NETMOD WG list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 27 Jun 2019 02:13:16 -0000 SGkgYWxsLA0KICAgIENhbiB3ZSByZWFjaCBhIGZpbmFsIGNvbmNsdXNpb24gYWJvdXQgdGhpcyBx dWVzdGlvbj8NCi0tLS0t08q8/tStvP4tLS0tLQ0Kt6K8/sjLOiBuZXRtb2QgW21haWx0bzpuZXRt b2QtYm91bmNlc0BpZXRmLm9yZ10gtPqx7SBNYXJ0aW4gQmpvcmtsdW5kDQq3osvNyrG85DogMjAx OcTqNtTCMjXI1SAxNTo1Ng0KytW8/sjLOiBqLnNjaG9lbndhZWxkZXJAamFjb2JzLXVuaXZlcnNp dHkuZGUNCrOty806IG5ldG1vZEBpZXRmLm9yZw0K1vfM4jogUmU6IFtuZXRtb2RdIEZXOiBhIHF1 ZXN0aW9uIGFib3V0IGlldGYtaGFyZHdhcmUgeWFuZyBtb2R1bGUNCg0KSnVlcmdlbiBTY2hvZW53 YWVsZGVyIDxqLnNjaG9lbndhZWxkZXJAamFjb2JzLXVuaXZlcnNpdHkuZGU+IHdyb3RlOg0KPiBP biBUdWUsIEp1biAyNSwgMjAxOSBhdCAwOToxMzo1MUFNICswMjAwLCBNYXJ0aW4gQmpvcmtsdW5k IHdyb3RlOg0KPiA+IEhpLA0KPiA+IA0KPiA+IEkgZG9uJ3QgdW5kZXJzdGFuZCB3aGF0IGlzIHVu Y2xlYXIgYWJvdXQgdGhlIGN1cnJlbnQgZGVzY3JpcHRpb25zLiAgDQo+ID4gSXMgaXQgdGhlIHJl bGF0aW9ucyB0byB0aGUgTUlCIG9iamVjdHMgdGhhdCBhcmUgdW5jbGVhciBvciBpcyBpdCB0aGUg DQo+ID4gZGVzY3JpcHRpb25zIGluIHRoZSBZQU5HIG1vZHVsZT8gIFRoZSBvcmlnaW5hbCBxdWVz dGlvbiB3YXM6DQo+ID4gDQo+ID4gICBNeSBxdWVzdGlvbiBpcyB3aGV0aGVyIG9ubHkgY29uZmln dXJhdGlvbiBjaGFuZ2Ugb2YgaGFyZHdhcmUNCj4gPiAgIGNvbXBvbmVudCB3aWxsIGNhdXNlIHRo ZSB1cGRhdGUgb2YgL2hhcmR3YXJlL2xhc3QtY2hhbmdlPw0KPiA+IA0KPiA+IFRoZSBhbnN3ZXIg aXMgY2xlYXJseSAibm8iLCBzaW5jZSAvaGFyZHdhcmUvbGFzdC1jaGFuZ2Ugc2F5czoNCj4gPiAN Cj4gPiAgICAgICAgICJUaGUgdGltZSB0aGUgJy9oYXJkd2FyZS9jb21wb25lbnQnIGxpc3QgY2hh bmdlZCBpbiB0aGUNCj4gPiAgICAgICAgICBvcGVyYXRpb25hbCBzdGF0ZS4iOw0KPiA+IA0KPiA+ IGFuZCB0aGlzIGxpc3QgaGFzIGUuZy46DQo+ID4gDQo+ID4gICAgICAgICAgICBXaGVuIHRoZSBz ZXJ2ZXIgZGV0ZWN0cyBhIG5ldyBoYXJkd2FyZSBjb21wb25lbnQsIGl0DQo+ID4gICAgICAgICAg ICBpbml0aWFsaXplcyBhIGxpc3QgZW50cnkgaW4gdGhlIG9wZXJhdGlvbmFsIHN0YXRlLg0KPiA+ IA0KPiA+IFNvIGl0IGlzIGNsZWFyIHRoYXQgaWYgYSBoYXJkd2FyZSBjb21wb25lbnQgaXMgYWRk ZWQgKG5vdCBhIA0KPiA+IGNvbmZpZ3VyYXRpb24gY2hhbmdlKSB0aGlzIGxpc3QgaXMgY2hhbmdl ZCwgYW5kIGxhc3QtY2hhbmdlIGlzIA0KPiA+IHVwZGF0ZWQuDQo+IA0KPiBJIHRoaW5rIHRoZSBh bWJpZ3VpdHkgaXMgJ2xpc3QgY2hhbmdlZCcgLSBkb2VzIHRoaXMgbWVhbiB0aGF0IGxpc3QgDQo+ IGVudHJpZXMgYXJlIGFkZGVkL3JlbW92ZWQgb3IgZG9lcyBpdCBpbmNsdWRlIGFsc28gdGhlIGNh c2Ugd2hlcmUgYSANCj4gcHJvcGVydHkgb2YgYSBsaXN0IGVudHJ5IGhhcyBjaGFuZ2VkLg0KDQpP ay4gIFllcyBpdCBpcyBzdXBwb3NlZCB0byBtZWFuIGVudHJ5IGFkZGVkL3JlbW92ZWQvbW9kaWZp ZWQuDQoNCkJ1dCBJIGNhbiBzZWUgYW5vdGhlciB1bmNsZWFyIHRoaW5nIC0gc3VwcG9zZSBJIGF1 Z21lbnQgaW4gYW4gYWRkdGlvbmFsIGxlYWYgZnJvbSBteSBvd24gbW9kZWwgaW50byB0aGlzIGxp c3QuICBTaG91bGQgbGFzdC1jaGFuZ2UgYmUgdXBkYXRlZCBpZiB0aGlzIG5ldyBsZWFmIGlzIGNo YW5nZWQ/DQoNCg0KPiBUaGUgcmVsYXRpb25zaGlwIHRvDQo+IGVudExhc3RDaGFuZ2VUaW1lIGlz IGFsc28gbm90IGNsZWFyIHRvIG1lLg0KDQpQZXJoYXBzIHRoYXQncyB3aHkgaXQgaXNuJ3QgbGlz dGVkIGluIHRoZSB0YWJsZSA7LSkNCg0KDQovbWFydGluDQoNCg0KPiANCj4gL2pzDQo+IA0KPiAt LSANCj4gSnVlcmdlbiBTY2hvZW53YWVsZGVyICAgICAgICAgICBKYWNvYnMgVW5pdmVyc2l0eSBC cmVtZW4gZ0dtYkgNCj4gUGhvbmU6ICs0OSA0MjEgMjAwIDM1ODcgICAgICAgICBDYW1wdXMgUmlu ZyAxIHwgMjg3NTkgQnJlbWVuIHwgR2VybWFueQ0KPiBGYXg6ICAgKzQ5IDQyMSAyMDAgMzEwMyAg ICAgICAgIDxodHRwczovL3d3dy5qYWNvYnMtdW5pdmVyc2l0eS5kZS8+DQo+IA0KDQpfX19fX19f X19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fXw0KbmV0bW9kIG1haWxpbmcg bGlzdA0KbmV0bW9kQGlldGYub3JnDQpodHRwczovL3d3dy5pZXRmLm9yZy9tYWlsbWFuL2xpc3Rp bmZvL25ldG1vZA0K From nobody Wed Jun 26 22:41:09 2019 Return-Path: X-Original-To: netmod@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: netmod@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id EA180120137 for ; Wed, 26 Jun 2019 22:41:06 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.897 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.897 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_NONE=0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id MOHqj09F5gYd for ; Wed, 26 Jun 2019 22:41:04 -0700 (PDT) Received: from atlas5.jacobs-university.de (atlas5.jacobs-university.de [212.201.44.20]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ADH-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 3A0E112012A for ; Wed, 26 Jun 2019 22:41:04 -0700 (PDT) Received: from localhost (demetrius5.irc-it.jacobs-university.de [10.70.0.222]) by atlas5.jacobs-university.de (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1110C676; Thu, 27 Jun 2019 07:41:02 +0200 (CEST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at jacobs-university.de Received: from atlas5.jacobs-university.de ([10.70.0.198]) by localhost (demetrius5.jacobs-university.de [10.70.0.222]) (amavisd-new, port 10032) with ESMTP id UcKQ8i1p0WWA; Thu, 27 Jun 2019 07:41:01 +0200 (CEST) Received: from hermes.jacobs-university.de (hermes.jacobs-university.de [212.201.44.23]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (Client CN "hermes.jacobs-university.de", Issuer "DFN-Verein Global Issuing CA" (verified OK)) by atlas5.jacobs-university.de (Postfix) with ESMTPS; Thu, 27 Jun 2019 07:41:01 +0200 (CEST) Received: from localhost (demetrius5.irc-it.jacobs-university.de [10.70.0.222]) by hermes.jacobs-university.de (Postfix) with ESMTP id E273520126; Thu, 27 Jun 2019 07:41:01 +0200 (CEST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at jacobs-university.de Received: from hermes.jacobs-university.de ([212.201.44.23]) by localhost (demetrius5.jacobs-university.de [10.70.0.222]) (amavisd-new, port 10028) with ESMTP id tl8cWdc9oqr5; Thu, 27 Jun 2019 07:41:01 +0200 (CEST) Received: from exchange.jacobs-university.de (SXCHMB02.jacobs.jacobs-university.de [10.70.0.121]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (Client CN "exchange.jacobs-university.de", Issuer "DFN-Verein Global Issuing CA" (verified OK)) by hermes.jacobs-university.de (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 6BC7A20128; Thu, 27 Jun 2019 07:41:01 +0200 (CEST) Received: from anna.localdomain (10.50.218.117) by sxchmb03.jacobs.jacobs-university.de (10.70.0.155) with Microsoft SMTP Server (version=TLS1_2, cipher=TLS_ECDHE_RSA_WITH_AES_256_GCM_SHA384) id 15.1.1713.5; Thu, 27 Jun 2019 07:41:00 +0200 Received: by anna.localdomain (Postfix, from userid 501) id 25449300A7B427; Thu, 27 Jun 2019 07:40:59 +0200 (CEST) Date: Thu, 27 Jun 2019 07:40:59 +0200 From: Juergen Schoenwaelder To: "Fengchong (frank)" CC: Martin Bjorklund , Andy Bierman , "netmod@ietf.org" Message-ID: <20190627054059.a5uqmzlxp4f5nwwp@anna.jacobs.jacobs-university.de> Reply-To: Juergen Schoenwaelder Mail-Followup-To: "Fengchong (frank)" , Martin Bjorklund , Andy Bierman , "netmod@ietf.org" References: <20190625055123.ia2k5vv5tfhzqqs2@anna.jacobs.jacobs-university.de> <20190625.091351.1767393704172151256.mbj@tail-f.com> <20190625073951.snh66hqbvd6cllmk@anna.jacobs.jacobs-university.de> <20190625.095609.527966383793151431.mbj@tail-f.com> <5756FB984666AD4BB8E1D63E2E3AA3D001ED52AD@dggemm513-mbx.china.huawei.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <5756FB984666AD4BB8E1D63E2E3AA3D001ED52AD@dggemm513-mbx.china.huawei.com> User-Agent: NeoMutt/20180716 X-ClientProxiedBy: SXCHMB04.jacobs.jacobs-university.de (10.70.0.156) To sxchmb03.jacobs.jacobs-university.de (10.70.0.155) Archived-At: Subject: Re: [netmod] =?utf-8?b?562U5aSNOiAgRlc6IGEgcXVlc3Rpb24gYWJvdXQgaWV0?= =?utf-8?q?f-hardware_yang_module?= X-BeenThere: netmod@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: NETMOD WG list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 27 Jun 2019 05:41:07 -0000 On Thu, Jun 27, 2019 at 02:13:03AM +0000, Fengchong (frank) wrote: > > > > I think the ambiguity is 'list changed' - does this mean that list > > entries are added/removed or does it include also the case where a > > property of a list entry has changed. > > Ok. Yes it is supposed to mean entry added/removed/modified. > > But I can see another unclear thing - suppose I augment in an addtional leaf from my own model into this list. Should last-change be updated if this new leaf is changed? > A reasonable interpretation in my view is that hardware/last-change is updated whenever (1) a hardware component has been added (2) a hardware component has been removed (3) a hardware component has been replaced by a different hardware component Here is an attempt for a new description: "The last time a new hardware component has been to the '/hardware/component' list, or a hardware component has been removed from the '/hardware/component' list, or a hardware component in the '/hardware/component' list has been replaced by a different hardware component." The point is to define this based on the events that cause the set of components to change instead of discussing leaf value changes. /js -- Juergen Schoenwaelder Jacobs University Bremen gGmbH Phone: +49 421 200 3587 Campus Ring 1 | 28759 Bremen | Germany Fax: +49 421 200 3103 From nobody Wed Jun 26 22:44:40 2019 Return-Path: X-Original-To: netmod@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: netmod@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id CE1B412012A for ; Wed, 26 Jun 2019 22:44:38 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.397 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.397 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_NONE=0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001, URI_NOVOWEL=0.5] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id XooK-VTc8t3C for ; Wed, 26 Jun 2019 22:44:37 -0700 (PDT) Received: from atlas5.jacobs-university.de (atlas5.jacobs-university.de [212.201.44.20]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ADH-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id CBE2E120033 for ; Wed, 26 Jun 2019 22:44:36 -0700 (PDT) Received: from localhost (demetrius5.irc-it.jacobs-university.de [10.70.0.222]) by atlas5.jacobs-university.de (Postfix) with ESMTP id 640B3676; Thu, 27 Jun 2019 07:44:35 +0200 (CEST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at jacobs-university.de Received: from atlas5.jacobs-university.de ([10.70.0.198]) by localhost (demetrius5.jacobs-university.de [10.70.0.222]) (amavisd-new, port 10032) with ESMTP id 0Q6TlIZVJA5k; Thu, 27 Jun 2019 07:44:35 +0200 (CEST) Received: from hermes.jacobs-university.de (hermes.jacobs-university.de [212.201.44.23]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (Client CN "hermes.jacobs-university.de", Issuer "DFN-Verein Global Issuing CA" (verified OK)) by atlas5.jacobs-university.de (Postfix) with ESMTPS; Thu, 27 Jun 2019 07:44:35 +0200 (CEST) Received: from localhost (demetrius5.irc-it.jacobs-university.de [10.70.0.222]) by hermes.jacobs-university.de (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4DA3C20128; Thu, 27 Jun 2019 07:44:35 +0200 (CEST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at jacobs-university.de Received: from hermes.jacobs-university.de ([212.201.44.23]) by localhost (demetrius5.jacobs-university.de [10.70.0.222]) (amavisd-new, port 10028) with ESMTP id Dy5ZSCSXhtjU; Thu, 27 Jun 2019 07:44:35 +0200 (CEST) Received: from exchange.jacobs-university.de (SXCHMB02.jacobs.jacobs-university.de [10.70.0.121]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (Client CN "exchange.jacobs-university.de", Issuer "DFN-Verein Global Issuing CA" (verified OK)) by hermes.jacobs-university.de (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 0F01D20126; Thu, 27 Jun 2019 07:44:35 +0200 (CEST) Received: from anna.localdomain (10.50.218.117) by sxchmb03.jacobs.jacobs-university.de (10.70.0.155) with Microsoft SMTP Server (version=TLS1_2, cipher=TLS_ECDHE_RSA_WITH_AES_256_GCM_SHA384) id 15.1.1713.5; Thu, 27 Jun 2019 07:44:34 +0200 Received: by anna.localdomain (Postfix, from userid 501) id 2F27A300A7B496; Thu, 27 Jun 2019 07:44:33 +0200 (CEST) Date: Thu, 27 Jun 2019 07:44:33 +0200 From: Juergen Schoenwaelder To: Kent Watsen CC: "netmod@ietf.org" Message-ID: <20190627054433.yi4a3jf6ka3o33i2@anna.jacobs.jacobs-university.de> Reply-To: Juergen Schoenwaelder Mail-Followup-To: Kent Watsen , "netmod@ietf.org" References: <156103580586.3118.4581112081528143968@ietfa.amsl.com> <0100016b74ff8507-2337966b-5eab-4dba-9c95-1ffbd94197da-000000@email.amazonses.com> <002101d5276d$e1580be0$a40823a0$@olddog.co.uk> <0100016b960cd1ff-1116daaf-9f7a-4c8a-9963-8416e956f9e7-000000@email.amazonses.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <0100016b960cd1ff-1116daaf-9f7a-4c8a-9963-8416e956f9e7-000000@email.amazonses.com> User-Agent: NeoMutt/20180716 X-ClientProxiedBy: SXCHMB04.jacobs.jacobs-university.de (10.70.0.156) To sxchmb03.jacobs.jacobs-university.de (10.70.0.155) Archived-At: Subject: Re: [netmod] I-D Action: draft-ietf-netmod-artwork-folding-05.txt X-BeenThere: netmod@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: NETMOD WG list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 27 Jun 2019 05:44:39 -0000 On Wed, Jun 26, 2019 at 11:09:11PM +0000, Kent Watsen wrote: > > All, > > The non-normative script in this draft received a few pull requests from an interested party outside our WG. > > I plan to publish an update shortly incorporating them, but I just realized the the name of the script should be improved. Especially as some consider distributing it with their systems. Currently it is called "fold-artwork.sh", but the word "artwork" fell out of favor awhile ago, here are some options: > > 0) fold-artwork.sh <---- current > 1) fold-sourcecode.sh > 2) fold-text.sh > 3) fold.sh > 4) rfcxxxx.sh // where "xxxx" is replaced by RFC Editor > > Any preferences or other suggestions? Since we have rfcdiff, perhaps rfcfold.sh or something like that. I think a name that is more specific than 0)-3) is desirable. /js -- Juergen Schoenwaelder Jacobs University Bremen gGmbH Phone: +49 421 200 3587 Campus Ring 1 | 28759 Bremen | Germany Fax: +49 421 200 3103 From nobody Thu Jun 27 07:59:14 2019 Return-Path: X-Original-To: netmod@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: netmod@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7C672120116 for ; Thu, 27 Jun 2019 07:59:13 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.899 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.899 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id DAXJwWIthUEm for ; Thu, 27 Jun 2019 07:59:11 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail.tail-f.com (mail.tail-f.com [46.21.102.45]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8CCCA12010C for ; Thu, 27 Jun 2019 07:59:11 -0700 (PDT) Received: from localhost (h-4-215.A165.priv.bahnhof.se [158.174.4.215]) by mail.tail-f.com (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 6CE981AE02F0; Thu, 27 Jun 2019 16:59:08 +0200 (CEST) Date: Thu, 27 Jun 2019 16:59:08 +0200 (CEST) Message-Id: <20190627.165908.69005367729631551.mbj@tail-f.com> To: j.schoenwaelder@jacobs-university.de Cc: frank.fengchong@huawei.com, andy@yumaworks.com, netmod@ietf.org From: Martin Bjorklund In-Reply-To: <20190627054059.a5uqmzlxp4f5nwwp@anna.jacobs.jacobs-university.de> References: <20190625.095609.527966383793151431.mbj@tail-f.com> <5756FB984666AD4BB8E1D63E2E3AA3D001ED52AD@dggemm513-mbx.china.huawei.com> <20190627054059.a5uqmzlxp4f5nwwp@anna.jacobs.jacobs-university.de> X-Mailer: Mew version 6.7 on Emacs 25.2 / Mule 6.0 (HANACHIRUSATO) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: Text/Plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Archived-At: Subject: Re: [netmod] =?utf-8?b?562U5aSNOiAgRlc6IGEgcXVlc3Rpb24gYWJvdXQgaWV0?= =?utf-8?q?f-hardware_yang_module?= X-BeenThere: netmod@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: NETMOD WG list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 27 Jun 2019 14:59:14 -0000 Juergen Schoenwaelder wrote: > On Thu, Jun 27, 2019 at 02:13:03AM +0000, Fengchong (frank) wrote: > > > > > > I think the ambiguity is 'list changed' - does this mean that list > > > entries are added/removed or does it include also the case where a > > > property of a list entry has changed. > > > > Ok. Yes it is supposed to mean entry added/removed/modified. > > > > But I can see another unclear thing - suppose I augment in an addtional leaf from my own model into this list. Should last-change be updated if this new leaf is changed? > > > > A reasonable interpretation in my view is that hardware/last-change is > updated whenever > > (1) a hardware component has been added > (2) a hardware component has been removed > (3) a hardware component has been replaced by a different hardware component > > Here is an attempt for a new description: > > "The last time a new hardware component has been to the ^^^^^ added > '/hardware/component' list, or a hardware component has > been removed from the '/hardware/component' list, or a > hardware component in the '/hardware/component' list has > been replaced by a different hardware component." > > The point is to define this based on the events that cause the set of > components to change instead of discussing leaf value changes. Sounds reasonable. But what exactly does "replaced by a different component" mean? Presumably it has the same name, but something else is different. /martin From nobody Thu Jun 27 11:02:06 2019 Return-Path: X-Original-To: netmod@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: netmod@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 959AE120151 for ; Thu, 27 Jun 2019 11:02:03 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.897 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.897 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_NONE=0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id U4ah7EP4j9kz for ; Thu, 27 Jun 2019 11:02:01 -0700 (PDT) Received: from atlas5.jacobs-university.de (atlas5.jacobs-university.de [212.201.44.20]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ADH-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id B7559120044 for ; Thu, 27 Jun 2019 11:02:00 -0700 (PDT) Received: from localhost (demetrius5.irc-it.jacobs-university.de [10.70.0.222]) by atlas5.jacobs-university.de (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5376699; Thu, 27 Jun 2019 20:01:59 +0200 (CEST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at jacobs-university.de Received: from atlas5.jacobs-university.de ([10.70.0.198]) by localhost (demetrius5.jacobs-university.de [10.70.0.222]) (amavisd-new, port 10032) with ESMTP id zxVOgtRSTUWo; Thu, 27 Jun 2019 20:01:59 +0200 (CEST) Received: from hermes.jacobs-university.de (hermes.jacobs-university.de [212.201.44.23]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (Client CN "hermes.jacobs-university.de", Issuer "DFN-Verein Global Issuing CA" (verified OK)) by atlas5.jacobs-university.de (Postfix) with ESMTPS; Thu, 27 Jun 2019 20:01:59 +0200 (CEST) Received: from localhost (demetrius5.irc-it.jacobs-university.de [10.70.0.222]) by hermes.jacobs-university.de (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3B5C720128; Thu, 27 Jun 2019 20:01:59 +0200 (CEST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at jacobs-university.de Received: from hermes.jacobs-university.de ([212.201.44.23]) by localhost (demetrius5.jacobs-university.de [10.70.0.222]) (amavisd-new, port 10028) with ESMTP id dYmjWcPPxvCo; Thu, 27 Jun 2019 20:01:59 +0200 (CEST) Received: from exchange.jacobs-university.de (sxchmb03.jacobs.jacobs-university.de [10.70.0.155]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (Client CN "exchange.jacobs-university.de", Issuer "DFN-Verein Global Issuing CA" (verified OK)) by hermes.jacobs-university.de (Postfix) with ESMTPS id BFF9520126; Thu, 27 Jun 2019 20:01:58 +0200 (CEST) Received: from anna.localdomain (10.50.218.117) by sxchmb03.jacobs.jacobs-university.de (10.70.0.155) with Microsoft SMTP Server (version=TLS1_2, cipher=TLS_ECDHE_RSA_WITH_AES_256_GCM_SHA384) id 15.1.1713.5; Thu, 27 Jun 2019 20:01:57 +0200 Received: by anna.localdomain (Postfix, from userid 501) id 95CF6300A8C843; Thu, 27 Jun 2019 20:01:57 +0200 (CEST) Date: Thu, 27 Jun 2019 20:01:57 +0200 From: Juergen Schoenwaelder To: Martin Bjorklund CC: , , Message-ID: <20190627180157.4o7lxzwh6hzt3r6l@anna.jacobs.jacobs-university.de> Reply-To: Juergen Schoenwaelder Mail-Followup-To: Martin Bjorklund , frank.fengchong@huawei.com, andy@yumaworks.com, netmod@ietf.org References: <20190625.095609.527966383793151431.mbj@tail-f.com> <5756FB984666AD4BB8E1D63E2E3AA3D001ED52AD@dggemm513-mbx.china.huawei.com> <20190627054059.a5uqmzlxp4f5nwwp@anna.jacobs.jacobs-university.de> <20190627.165908.69005367729631551.mbj@tail-f.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <20190627.165908.69005367729631551.mbj@tail-f.com> User-Agent: NeoMutt/20180716 X-ClientProxiedBy: SXCHMB03.jacobs.jacobs-university.de (10.70.0.155) To sxchmb03.jacobs.jacobs-university.de (10.70.0.155) Archived-At: Subject: Re: [netmod] =?utf-8?b?562U5aSNOiAgRlc6IGEgcXVlc3Rpb24gYWJvdXQgaWV0?= =?utf-8?q?f-hardware_yang_module?= X-BeenThere: netmod@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: NETMOD WG list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 27 Jun 2019 18:02:04 -0000 On Thu, Jun 27, 2019 at 04:59:08PM +0200, Martin Bjorklund wrote: > > Sounds reasonable. But what exactly does "replaced by a different > component" mean? Presumably it has the same name, but something else > is different. > Yes, good point, I think the phrase "by a different hardware component" should be removed. It seems last-change should change when I unplug a component and I plug it back shortly after, i.e., a component is replaced by itself. So we have: "The last time a new hardware component has been added to the '/hardware/component' list, or a hardware component has been removed from the '/hardware/component' list, or a hardware component in the '/hardware/component' list has been replaced." /js -- Juergen Schoenwaelder Jacobs University Bremen gGmbH Phone: +49 421 200 3587 Campus Ring 1 | 28759 Bremen | Germany Fax: +49 421 200 3103 From nobody Thu Jun 27 12:53:03 2019 Return-Path: X-Original-To: netmod@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: netmod@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1F22812023E for ; Thu, 27 Jun 2019 12:53:02 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.899 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.899 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 4HRA9RJJOAss for ; Thu, 27 Jun 2019 12:53:00 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail.tail-f.com (mail.tail-f.com [46.21.102.45]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 52832120133 for ; Thu, 27 Jun 2019 12:53:00 -0700 (PDT) Received: from localhost (h-4-215.A165.priv.bahnhof.se [158.174.4.215]) by mail.tail-f.com (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 058F11AE02F0; Thu, 27 Jun 2019 21:52:57 +0200 (CEST) Date: Thu, 27 Jun 2019 21:52:56 +0200 (CEST) Message-Id: <20190627.215256.473320173886007836.mbj@tail-f.com> To: j.schoenwaelder@jacobs-university.de Cc: frank.fengchong@huawei.com, andy@yumaworks.com, netmod@ietf.org From: Martin Bjorklund In-Reply-To: <20190627180157.4o7lxzwh6hzt3r6l@anna.jacobs.jacobs-university.de> References: <20190627054059.a5uqmzlxp4f5nwwp@anna.jacobs.jacobs-university.de> <20190627.165908.69005367729631551.mbj@tail-f.com> <20190627180157.4o7lxzwh6hzt3r6l@anna.jacobs.jacobs-university.de> X-Mailer: Mew version 6.7 on Emacs 25.2 / Mule 6.0 (HANACHIRUSATO) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: Text/Plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Archived-At: Subject: Re: [netmod] =?utf-8?b?562U5aSNOiAgRlc6IGEgcXVlc3Rpb24gYWJvdXQgaWV0?= =?utf-8?q?f-hardware_yang_module?= X-BeenThere: netmod@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: NETMOD WG list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 27 Jun 2019 19:53:02 -0000 Juergen Schoenwaelder wrote: > On Thu, Jun 27, 2019 at 04:59:08PM +0200, Martin Bjorklund wrote: > > > > Sounds reasonable. But what exactly does "replaced by a different > > component" mean? Presumably it has the same name, but something else > > is different. > > > > Yes, good point, I think the phrase "by a different hardware > component" should be removed. It seems last-change should change when > I unplug a component and I plug it back shortly after, i.e., a > component is replaced by itself. So we have: > > "The last time a new hardware component has been added to the > '/hardware/component' list, or a hardware component has been > removed from the '/hardware/component' list, or a hardware > component in the '/hardware/component' list has been > replaced." I think that this is still not clear what it means that a component has been replaced. Do you mean "replaced by a different hardware component"? Otherwise (unplug then plug in the same component), the system either detects the removal and thus updates last-change, or it doesn't detect the quick removal/insertion, and then it can't do anything. Thus, I don't think this case needs special treatment, and the text could be just: "The last time a new hardware component has been added to the '/hardware/component' list, or a hardware component has been removed from the '/hardware/component' list." /martin From nobody Thu Jun 27 13:01:27 2019 Return-Path: X-Original-To: netmod@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: netmod@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2CD0A12017A for ; Thu, 27 Jun 2019 13:01:25 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.897 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.897 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_NONE=0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id O5zveEicoYnv for ; Thu, 27 Jun 2019 13:01:23 -0700 (PDT) Received: from atlas5.jacobs-university.de (atlas5.jacobs-university.de [212.201.44.20]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ADH-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 1AFCA12004E for ; Thu, 27 Jun 2019 13:01:22 -0700 (PDT) Received: from localhost (demetrius5.irc-it.jacobs-university.de [10.70.0.222]) by atlas5.jacobs-university.de (Postfix) with ESMTP id C5B7C83E; Thu, 27 Jun 2019 22:01:20 +0200 (CEST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at jacobs-university.de Received: from atlas5.jacobs-university.de ([10.70.0.198]) by localhost (demetrius5.jacobs-university.de [10.70.0.222]) (amavisd-new, port 10032) with ESMTP id WuRlvs5Uz7Nk; Thu, 27 Jun 2019 22:01:20 +0200 (CEST) Received: from hermes.jacobs-university.de (hermes.jacobs-university.de [212.201.44.23]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (Client CN "hermes.jacobs-university.de", Issuer "DFN-Verein Global Issuing CA" (verified OK)) by atlas5.jacobs-university.de (Postfix) with ESMTPS; Thu, 27 Jun 2019 22:01:20 +0200 (CEST) Received: from localhost (demetrius5.irc-it.jacobs-university.de [10.70.0.222]) by hermes.jacobs-university.de (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6B7542012C; Thu, 27 Jun 2019 22:01:20 +0200 (CEST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at jacobs-university.de Received: from hermes.jacobs-university.de ([212.201.44.23]) by localhost (demetrius5.jacobs-university.de [10.70.0.222]) (amavisd-new, port 10028) with ESMTP id AB0Dis-w5UHh; Thu, 27 Jun 2019 22:01:20 +0200 (CEST) Received: from exchange.jacobs-university.de (sxchmb03.jacobs.jacobs-university.de [10.70.0.155]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (Client CN "exchange.jacobs-university.de", Issuer "DFN-Verein Global Issuing CA" (verified OK)) by hermes.jacobs-university.de (Postfix) with ESMTPS id E2B7920128; Thu, 27 Jun 2019 22:01:19 +0200 (CEST) Received: from anna.localdomain (10.50.218.117) by sxchmb03.jacobs.jacobs-university.de (10.70.0.155) with Microsoft SMTP Server (version=TLS1_2, cipher=TLS_ECDHE_RSA_WITH_AES_256_GCM_SHA384) id 15.1.1713.5; Thu, 27 Jun 2019 22:01:19 +0200 Received: by anna.localdomain (Postfix, from userid 501) id C5EB5300A8CA55; Thu, 27 Jun 2019 22:01:18 +0200 (CEST) Date: Thu, 27 Jun 2019 22:01:18 +0200 From: Juergen Schoenwaelder To: Martin Bjorklund CC: , , Message-ID: <20190627200118.5el3ih6frka5elmh@anna.jacobs.jacobs-university.de> Reply-To: Juergen Schoenwaelder Mail-Followup-To: Martin Bjorklund , frank.fengchong@huawei.com, andy@yumaworks.com, netmod@ietf.org References: <20190627054059.a5uqmzlxp4f5nwwp@anna.jacobs.jacobs-university.de> <20190627.165908.69005367729631551.mbj@tail-f.com> <20190627180157.4o7lxzwh6hzt3r6l@anna.jacobs.jacobs-university.de> <20190627.215256.473320173886007836.mbj@tail-f.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <20190627.215256.473320173886007836.mbj@tail-f.com> User-Agent: NeoMutt/20180716 X-ClientProxiedBy: SXCHMB04.jacobs.jacobs-university.de (10.70.0.156) To sxchmb03.jacobs.jacobs-university.de (10.70.0.155) Archived-At: Subject: Re: [netmod] =?utf-8?b?562U5aSNOiAgRlc6IGEgcXVlc3Rpb24gYWJvdXQgaWV0?= =?utf-8?q?f-hardware_yang_module?= X-BeenThere: netmod@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: NETMOD WG list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 27 Jun 2019 20:01:25 -0000 On Thu, Jun 27, 2019 at 09:52:56PM +0200, Martin Bjorklund wrote: > > Yes, good point, I think the phrase "by a different hardware > > component" should be removed. It seems last-change should change when > > I unplug a component and I plug it back shortly after, i.e., a > > component is replaced by itself. So we have: > > > > "The last time a new hardware component has been added to the > > '/hardware/component' list, or a hardware component has been > > removed from the '/hardware/component' list, or a hardware > > component in the '/hardware/component' list has been > > replaced." > > I think that this is still not clear what it means that a component > has been replaced. Do you mean "replaced by a different hardware > component"? > > Otherwise (unplug then plug in the same component), the system either > detects the removal and thus updates last-change, or it doesn't detect > the quick removal/insertion, and then it can't do anything. Thus, I > don't think this case needs special treatment, and the text could be > just: > > "The last time a new hardware component has been added to the > '/hardware/component' list, or a hardware component has been > removed from the '/hardware/component' list." > The question is whether every implementor will figure out that if the component found in some slot x-y-z is different from what is expected to be in slot x-y-z, this must be seen as a remove + add combination. If we include 'replace', then it may be clearer that even in the case where what is in slot x-y-z has changed, the last-change must be updated. (That is, the list element with the same name still exists but it is different from what was there before with the same name.) /js -- Juergen Schoenwaelder Jacobs University Bremen gGmbH Phone: +49 421 200 3587 Campus Ring 1 | 28759 Bremen | Germany Fax: +49 421 200 3103 From nobody Thu Jun 27 13:04:55 2019 Return-Path: X-Original-To: netmod@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: netmod@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1A2A612028E for ; Thu, 27 Jun 2019 13:04:53 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.899 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.899 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 5KbW2oS-GZlM for ; Thu, 27 Jun 2019 13:04:51 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail.tail-f.com (mail.tail-f.com [46.21.102.45]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 391D812026D for ; Thu, 27 Jun 2019 13:04:51 -0700 (PDT) Received: from localhost (h-4-215.A165.priv.bahnhof.se [158.174.4.215]) by mail.tail-f.com (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 1E5B81AE02F0; Thu, 27 Jun 2019 22:04:50 +0200 (CEST) Date: Thu, 27 Jun 2019 22:04:50 +0200 (CEST) Message-Id: <20190627.220450.2014107990410615280.mbj@tail-f.com> To: j.schoenwaelder@jacobs-university.de Cc: frank.fengchong@huawei.com, andy@yumaworks.com, netmod@ietf.org From: Martin Bjorklund In-Reply-To: <20190627200118.5el3ih6frka5elmh@anna.jacobs.jacobs-university.de> References: <20190627180157.4o7lxzwh6hzt3r6l@anna.jacobs.jacobs-university.de> <20190627.215256.473320173886007836.mbj@tail-f.com> <20190627200118.5el3ih6frka5elmh@anna.jacobs.jacobs-university.de> X-Mailer: Mew version 6.7 on Emacs 25.2 / Mule 6.0 (HANACHIRUSATO) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: Text/Plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Archived-At: Subject: Re: [netmod] =?utf-8?b?562U5aSNOiAgRlc6IGEgcXVlc3Rpb24gYWJvdXQgaWV0?= =?utf-8?q?f-hardware_yang_module?= X-BeenThere: netmod@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: NETMOD WG list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 27 Jun 2019 20:04:53 -0000 Juergen Schoenwaelder wrote: > On Thu, Jun 27, 2019 at 09:52:56PM +0200, Martin Bjorklund wrote: > > > Yes, good point, I think the phrase "by a different hardware > > > component" should be removed. It seems last-change should change when > > > I unplug a component and I plug it back shortly after, i.e., a > > > component is replaced by itself. So we have: > > > > > > "The last time a new hardware component has been added to the > > > '/hardware/component' list, or a hardware component has been > > > removed from the '/hardware/component' list, or a hardware > > > component in the '/hardware/component' list has been > > > replaced." > > > > I think that this is still not clear what it means that a component > > has been replaced. Do you mean "replaced by a different hardware > > component"? > > > > Otherwise (unplug then plug in the same component), the system either > > detects the removal and thus updates last-change, or it doesn't detect > > the quick removal/insertion, and then it can't do anything. Thus, I > > don't think this case needs special treatment, and the text could be > > just: > > > > "The last time a new hardware component has been added to the > > '/hardware/component' list, or a hardware component has been > > removed from the '/hardware/component' list." > > > > The question is whether every implementor will figure out that if the > component found in some slot x-y-z is different from what is expected > to be in slot x-y-z, this must be seen as a remove + add combination. > If we include 'replace', then it may be clearer that even in the case > where what is in slot x-y-z has changed, the last-change must be > updated. (That is, the list element with the same name still exists > but it is different from what was there before with the same name.) But then we're back to where we started - what exactly does "different from what was there before" mean? Presumably that some leaf's value is different...? /martin From nobody Thu Jun 27 13:13:35 2019 Return-Path: X-Original-To: netmod@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: netmod@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 595EC12026D for ; Thu, 27 Jun 2019 13:13:33 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.897 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.897 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_NONE=0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id PlrzgAuiqadl for ; Thu, 27 Jun 2019 13:13:32 -0700 (PDT) Received: from atlas5.jacobs-university.de (atlas5.jacobs-university.de [212.201.44.20]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ADH-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id A063912004E for ; Thu, 27 Jun 2019 13:13:31 -0700 (PDT) Received: from localhost (demetrius5.irc-it.jacobs-university.de [10.70.0.222]) by atlas5.jacobs-university.de (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4120183E; Thu, 27 Jun 2019 22:13:30 +0200 (CEST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at jacobs-university.de Received: from atlas5.jacobs-university.de ([10.70.0.198]) by localhost (demetrius5.jacobs-university.de [10.70.0.222]) (amavisd-new, port 10032) with ESMTP id 1xXPomjH7pE6; Thu, 27 Jun 2019 22:13:30 +0200 (CEST) Received: from hermes.jacobs-university.de (hermes.jacobs-university.de [212.201.44.23]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (Client CN "hermes.jacobs-university.de", Issuer "DFN-Verein Global Issuing CA" (verified OK)) by atlas5.jacobs-university.de (Postfix) with ESMTPS; Thu, 27 Jun 2019 22:13:30 +0200 (CEST) Received: from localhost (demetrius5.irc-it.jacobs-university.de [10.70.0.222]) by hermes.jacobs-university.de (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1A94E20128; Thu, 27 Jun 2019 22:13:30 +0200 (CEST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at jacobs-university.de Received: from hermes.jacobs-university.de ([212.201.44.23]) by localhost (demetrius5.jacobs-university.de [10.70.0.222]) (amavisd-new, port 10028) with ESMTP id 0Qm-ox9t3Osg; Thu, 27 Jun 2019 22:13:29 +0200 (CEST) Received: from exchange.jacobs-university.de (SXCHMB02.jacobs.jacobs-university.de [10.70.0.121]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (Client CN "exchange.jacobs-university.de", Issuer "DFN-Verein Global Issuing CA" (verified OK)) by hermes.jacobs-university.de (Postfix) with ESMTPS id B439B20126; Thu, 27 Jun 2019 22:13:29 +0200 (CEST) Received: from anna.localdomain (10.50.218.117) by sxchmb03.jacobs.jacobs-university.de (10.70.0.155) with Microsoft SMTP Server (version=TLS1_2, cipher=TLS_ECDHE_RSA_WITH_AES_256_GCM_SHA384) id 15.1.1713.5; Thu, 27 Jun 2019 22:13:28 +0200 Received: by anna.localdomain (Postfix, from userid 501) id 76B50300A8CBE1; Thu, 27 Jun 2019 22:13:28 +0200 (CEST) Date: Thu, 27 Jun 2019 22:13:28 +0200 From: Juergen Schoenwaelder To: Martin Bjorklund CC: , , Message-ID: <20190627201328.3gp7a6vgxzhxxwek@anna.jacobs.jacobs-university.de> Reply-To: Juergen Schoenwaelder Mail-Followup-To: Martin Bjorklund , frank.fengchong@huawei.com, andy@yumaworks.com, netmod@ietf.org References: <20190627180157.4o7lxzwh6hzt3r6l@anna.jacobs.jacobs-university.de> <20190627.215256.473320173886007836.mbj@tail-f.com> <20190627200118.5el3ih6frka5elmh@anna.jacobs.jacobs-university.de> <20190627.220450.2014107990410615280.mbj@tail-f.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <20190627.220450.2014107990410615280.mbj@tail-f.com> User-Agent: NeoMutt/20180716 X-ClientProxiedBy: SXCHMB04.jacobs.jacobs-university.de (10.70.0.156) To sxchmb03.jacobs.jacobs-university.de (10.70.0.155) Archived-At: Subject: Re: [netmod] =?utf-8?b?562U5aSNOiAgRlc6IGEgcXVlc3Rpb24gYWJvdXQgaWV0?= =?utf-8?q?f-hardware_yang_module?= X-BeenThere: netmod@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: NETMOD WG list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 27 Jun 2019 20:13:33 -0000 On Thu, Jun 27, 2019 at 10:04:50PM +0200, Martin Bjorklund wrote: > Juergen Schoenwaelder wrote: > > On Thu, Jun 27, 2019 at 09:52:56PM +0200, Martin Bjorklund wrote: > > > > Yes, good point, I think the phrase "by a different hardware > > > > component" should be removed. It seems last-change should change when > > > > I unplug a component and I plug it back shortly after, i.e., a > > > > component is replaced by itself. So we have: > > > > > > > > "The last time a new hardware component has been added to the > > > > '/hardware/component' list, or a hardware component has been > > > > removed from the '/hardware/component' list, or a hardware > > > > component in the '/hardware/component' list has been > > > > replaced." > > > > > > I think that this is still not clear what it means that a component > > > has been replaced. Do you mean "replaced by a different hardware > > > component"? > > > > > > Otherwise (unplug then plug in the same component), the system either > > > detects the removal and thus updates last-change, or it doesn't detect > > > the quick removal/insertion, and then it can't do anything. Thus, I > > > don't think this case needs special treatment, and the text could be > > > just: > > > > > > "The last time a new hardware component has been added to the > > > '/hardware/component' list, or a hardware component has been > > > removed from the '/hardware/component' list." > > > > > > > The question is whether every implementor will figure out that if the > > component found in some slot x-y-z is different from what is expected > > to be in slot x-y-z, this must be seen as a remove + add combination. > > If we include 'replace', then it may be clearer that even in the case > > where what is in slot x-y-z has changed, the last-change must be > > updated. (That is, the list element with the same name still exists > > but it is different from what was there before with the same name.) > > But then we're back to where we started - what exactly does "different > from what was there before" mean? Presumably that some leaf's value > is different...? > Go back some emails, I have removed the 'different' phrase. /js -- Juergen Schoenwaelder Jacobs University Bremen gGmbH Phone: +49 421 200 3587 Campus Ring 1 | 28759 Bremen | Germany Fax: +49 421 200 3103 From nobody Thu Jun 27 14:20:25 2019 Return-Path: X-Original-To: netmod@ietf.org Delivered-To: netmod@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from ietfa.amsl.com (localhost [IPv6:::1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6E69A120114; Thu, 27 Jun 2019 14:20:23 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: internet-drafts@ietf.org To: Cc: netmod@ietf.org X-Test-IDTracker: no X-IETF-IDTracker: 6.98.1 Auto-Submitted: auto-generated Precedence: bulk Reply-To: netmod@ietf.org Message-ID: <156167042338.21715.14230991158020374795@ietfa.amsl.com> Date: Thu, 27 Jun 2019 14:20:23 -0700 Archived-At: Subject: [netmod] I-D Action: draft-ietf-netmod-artwork-folding-06.txt X-BeenThere: netmod@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 List-Id: NETMOD WG list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 27 Jun 2019 21:20:24 -0000 A New Internet-Draft is available from the on-line Internet-Drafts directories. This draft is a work item of the Network Modeling WG of the IETF. Title : Handling Long Lines in Inclusions in Internet-Drafts and RFCs Authors : Kent Watsen Adrian Farrel Qin Wu Filename : draft-ietf-netmod-artwork-folding-06.txt Pages : 26 Date : 2019-06-27 Abstract: This document defines two strategies for handling long lines in width-bounded text content. One strategy is based on the historic use of a single backslash ('\') character to indicate where line- folding has occurred, with the continuation occurring with the first non-space (' ') character on the next line. The second strategy extends the first strategy by adding a second backslash character to identify where the continuation begins and thereby able to handle cases not supported by the first strategy. Both strategies use a self-describing header enabling automated reconstitution of the original content. The IETF datatracker status page for this draft is: https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-netmod-artwork-folding/ There are also htmlized versions available at: https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-netmod-artwork-folding-06 https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/html/draft-ietf-netmod-artwork-folding-06 A diff from the previous version is available at: https://www.ietf.org/rfcdiff?url2=draft-ietf-netmod-artwork-folding-06 Please note that it may take a couple of minutes from the time of submission until the htmlized version and diff are available at tools.ietf.org. Internet-Drafts are also available by anonymous FTP at: ftp://ftp.ietf.org/internet-drafts/ From nobody Thu Jun 27 14:35:34 2019 Return-Path: <0100016b9add6136-2ad41038-eda3-4ebf-953f-187290bd678a-000000@amazonses.watsen.net> X-Original-To: netmod@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: netmod@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8462A120168 for ; Thu, 27 Jun 2019 14:35:31 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.896 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.896 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_NONE=0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (1024-bit key) header.d=amazonses.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id RJoQO1dEwg_o for ; Thu, 27 Jun 2019 14:35:29 -0700 (PDT) Received: from a8-33.smtp-out.amazonses.com (a8-33.smtp-out.amazonses.com [54.240.8.33]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 4FDD1120105 for ; Thu, 27 Jun 2019 14:35:29 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; q=dns/txt; c=relaxed/simple; s=6gbrjpgwjskckoa6a5zn6fwqkn67xbtw; d=amazonses.com; t=1561671328; h=From:Content-Type:Mime-Version:Subject:Date:References:To:In-Reply-To:Message-Id:Feedback-ID; bh=drTKrZSYmjKgE+dSLghFHSRe/e0qQlfsREJ/onqglLc=; b=Tkm0D43cfSIwB+TZbmyOvJwnEGQCeTnkqhC8C2p9yErUItLZsbSYVre+j4o+pQ53 9kqHg/bMvPFX6/EQw21p88PFhDy5Zuo5h8CQG96jTszjcHqpjruJP9wPouzZd9xr5lT QZVEth73Vvnjpn9x5IIdlcnFkgK2PKtg2reYRWmE= From: Kent Watsen Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="Apple-Mail=_9142C9BB-DFD4-4734-BE8E-A9FDE4F6CDB2" Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 12.4 \(3445.104.11\)) Date: Thu, 27 Jun 2019 21:35:28 +0000 References: <156167042338.21715.14230991158020374795@ietfa.amsl.com> To: "netmod@ietf.org" In-Reply-To: <156167042338.21715.14230991158020374795@ietfa.amsl.com> Message-ID: <0100016b9add6136-2ad41038-eda3-4ebf-953f-187290bd678a-000000@email.amazonses.com> X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.3445.104.11) X-SES-Outgoing: 2019.06.27-54.240.8.33 Feedback-ID: 1.us-east-1.DKmIRZFhhsBhtmFMNikgwZUWVrODEw9qVcPhqJEI2DA=:AmazonSES Archived-At: Subject: Re: [netmod] I-D Action: draft-ietf-netmod-artwork-folding-06.txt X-BeenThere: netmod@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: NETMOD WG list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 27 Jun 2019 21:35:32 -0000 --Apple-Mail=_9142C9BB-DFD4-4734-BE8E-A9FDE4F6CDB2 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii This update primarily regards the non-normative script: - renamed to "rfcfold" - now only uses sed one-liners - auto-detects if platforms `[g]sed` and `pcregrep` are present and suitable, outputting an error message if not. - cleans up the temporary directory if exits for any reason - improved error message around the script not implementing the force-fold logic. Special thanks to Eric Auerswald for supplying the pull requests=20 for much of the above! Outside the updates to the script: - renamed 9.3: OLD: Example Showing Smart Folding NEW: Example Showing "Smart" Folding - renamed Appendix A: OLD: POSIX Shell Script: rfcfold NEW: POSIX Shell Script My only comments are: 1) the script itself doesn't name itself "rfcfold" anywhere. - albeit, the "name" attribute in the XML is set to = "rfcfold". 2) if the script is expected to be distributed, we may want/need to add a copyright statement and/or a pointer to its GitHub repo. Thanks, Kent > On Jun 27, 2019, at 5:20 PM, internet-drafts@ietf.org wrote: >=20 >=20 > A New Internet-Draft is available from the on-line Internet-Drafts = directories. > This draft is a work item of the Network Modeling WG of the IETF. >=20 > Title : Handling Long Lines in Inclusions in = Internet-Drafts and RFCs > Authors : Kent Watsen > Adrian Farrel > Qin Wu > Filename : draft-ietf-netmod-artwork-folding-06.txt > Pages : 26 > Date : 2019-06-27 >=20 > Abstract: > This document defines two strategies for handling long lines in > width-bounded text content. One strategy is based on the historic > use of a single backslash ('\') character to indicate where line- > folding has occurred, with the continuation occurring with the first > non-space (' ') character on the next line. The second strategy > extends the first strategy by adding a second backslash character to > identify where the continuation begins and thereby able to handle > cases not supported by the first strategy. Both strategies use a > self-describing header enabling automated reconstitution of the > original content. >=20 >=20 > The IETF datatracker status page for this draft is: > https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-netmod-artwork-folding/ >=20 > There are also htmlized versions available at: > https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-netmod-artwork-folding-06 > = https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/html/draft-ietf-netmod-artwork-folding-06= >=20 > A diff from the previous version is available at: > https://www.ietf.org/rfcdiff?url2=3Ddraft-ietf-netmod-artwork-folding-06= >=20 >=20 > Please note that it may take a couple of minutes from the time of = submission > until the htmlized version and diff are available at tools.ietf.org. >=20 > Internet-Drafts are also available by anonymous FTP at: > ftp://ftp.ietf.org/internet-drafts/ >=20 > _______________________________________________ > netmod mailing list > netmod@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/netmod --Apple-Mail=_9142C9BB-DFD4-4734-BE8E-A9FDE4F6CDB2 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/html; charset=us-ascii

This update primarily regards the = non-normative script:

    - renamed to "rfcfold"
    - now only uses sed one-liners
    - auto-detects if platforms `[g]sed` and = `pcregrep` are present and
      =  suitable, outputting an error message if not.
    - cleans up the temporary directory if exits = for any reason
    - improved error = message around the script not implementing the
 =     force-fold logic.

    Special thanks to Eric = Auerswald for supplying the pull requests 
    for much of the above!


Outside the updates to the script:

    - renamed 9.3:
          OLD: Example = Showing Smart Folding
    =       NEW: Example Showing "Smart" Folding

    - renamed = Appendix A:
          OLD: = POSIX Shell Script: rfcfold
      =     NEW: POSIX Shell Script


My = only comments are:

    1) the script itself doesn't name itself = "rfcfold" anywhere.
        =     - albeit, the "name" attribute in the XML is set to = "rfcfold".

    2) if the script is expected to be distributed, = we may want/need to
        add = a copyright statement and/or a pointer to its GitHub repo.


Thanks,
Kent


On Jun 27, 2019, at 5:20 PM, internet-drafts@ietf.org wrote:


A New Internet-Draft is available from the on-line = Internet-Drafts directories.
This draft is a work item of = the Network Modeling WG of the IETF.

=        Title =           : Handling = Long Lines in Inclusions in Internet-Drafts and RFCs
=        Authors =         : Kent Watsen
=             &n= bsp;           &nbs= p;Adrian Farrel
=             &n= bsp;           &nbs= p;Qin Wu
Filename =        : = draft-ietf-netmod-artwork-folding-06.txt
Pages =           : 26
= Date =            : = 2019-06-27

Abstract:
=   This document defines two strategies for handling long lines = in
  width-bounded text content.  One = strategy is based on the historic
  use of a = single backslash ('\') character to indicate where line-
=   folding has occurred, with the continuation occurring with = the first
  non-space (' ') character on the = next line.  The second strategy
  extends = the first strategy by adding a second backslash character to
  identify where the continuation begins and = thereby able to handle
  cases not supported by = the first strategy.  Both strategies use a
=   self-describing header enabling automated reconstitution of = the
  original content.


The IETF datatracker status page for this = draft is:
https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-netmod-artwork-fold= ing/

There are also htmlized versions = available at:
https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-netmod-artwork-folding-0= 6
https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/html/draft-ietf-netmod-artwork= -folding-06

A diff from the previous = version is available at:
https://www.ietf.org/rfcdiff?url2=3Ddraft-ietf-netmod-artwork-f= olding-06


Please note that = it may take a couple of minutes from the time of submission
until the htmlized version and diff are available at = tools.ietf.org.

Internet-Drafts are also = available by anonymous FTP at:
ftp://ftp.ietf.org/internet-drafts/

_______________________________________________
netmod mailing list
netmod@ietf.org
https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/netmod

= --Apple-Mail=_9142C9BB-DFD4-4734-BE8E-A9FDE4F6CDB2-- From auerswal@unix-ag.uni-kl.de Thu Jun 27 14:43:49 2019 Return-Path: X-Original-To: netmod@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: netmod@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id CDC82120236 for ; Thu, 27 Jun 2019 14:43:49 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -4.197 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-4.197 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-2.3, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_NONE=0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id EUUONzD4pqfn for ; Thu, 27 Jun 2019 14:43:47 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mailgw1.uni-kl.de (mailgw1.uni-kl.de [IPv6:2001:638:208:120::220]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id ED55C12006F for ; Thu, 27 Jun 2019 14:43:46 -0700 (PDT) Received: from sushi.unix-ag.uni-kl.de (sushi.unix-ag.uni-kl.de [IPv6:2001:638:208:ef34:0:ff:fe00:65]) by mailgw1.uni-kl.de (8.14.4/8.14.4/Debian-8+deb8u2) with ESMTP id x5RLhhrW030078 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 bits=256 verify=NOT) for ; Thu, 27 Jun 2019 23:43:43 +0200 Received: from sushi.unix-ag.uni-kl.de (ip6-localhost [IPv6:::1]) by sushi.unix-ag.uni-kl.de (8.14.4/8.14.4/Debian-4+deb7u1) with ESMTP id x5RLhhGU026331 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 bits=256 verify=NO) for ; Thu, 27 Jun 2019 23:43:43 +0200 Received: (from auerswal@localhost) by sushi.unix-ag.uni-kl.de (8.14.4/8.14.4/Submit) id x5RLhgbs026326 for netmod@ietf.org; Thu, 27 Jun 2019 23:43:42 +0200 Date: Thu, 27 Jun 2019 23:43:42 +0200 From: Erik Auerswald To: netmod@ietf.org Message-ID: <20190627214342.GA21879@unix-ag.uni-kl.de> References: <156167042338.21715.14230991158020374795@ietfa.amsl.com> <0100016b9add6136-2ad41038-eda3-4ebf-953f-187290bd678a-000000@email.amazonses.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <0100016b9add6136-2ad41038-eda3-4ebf-953f-187290bd678a-000000@email.amazonses.com> User-Agent: Mutt/1.5.21 (2010-09-15) Archived-At: Subject: Re: [netmod] I-D Action: draft-ietf-netmod-artwork-folding-06.txt X-BeenThere: netmod@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: NETMOD WG list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 27 Jun 2019 21:50:28 -0000 Hi, whilst missing the original IPR poll [1], as a recently acknowledged contributor: No, I'm not aware of any IPR that applies to this draft. [1] https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/netmod/s1TKbSLXvlJG8Q9MgqFm4197r88 Thanks, Erik On Thu, Jun 27, 2019 at 09:35:28PM +0000, Kent Watsen wrote: > > This update primarily regards the non-normative script: > > - renamed to "rfcfold" > - now only uses sed one-liners > - auto-detects if platforms `[g]sed` and `pcregrep` are present and > suitable, outputting an error message if not. > - cleans up the temporary directory if exits for any reason > - improved error message around the script not implementing the > force-fold logic. > > Special thanks to Eric Auerswald for supplying the pull requests > for much of the above! > > > Outside the updates to the script: > > - renamed 9.3: > OLD: Example Showing Smart Folding > NEW: Example Showing "Smart" Folding > > - renamed Appendix A: > OLD: POSIX Shell Script: rfcfold > NEW: POSIX Shell Script > > > My only comments are: > > 1) the script itself doesn't name itself "rfcfold" anywhere. > - albeit, the "name" attribute in the XML is set to "rfcfold". > > 2) if the script is expected to be distributed, we may want/need to > add a copyright statement and/or a pointer to its GitHub repo. > > > Thanks, > Kent > > > > On Jun 27, 2019, at 5:20 PM, internet-drafts@ietf.org wrote: > > > > > > A New Internet-Draft is available from the on-line Internet-Drafts directories. > > This draft is a work item of the Network Modeling WG of the IETF. > > > > Title : Handling Long Lines in Inclusions in Internet-Drafts and RFCs > > Authors : Kent Watsen > > Adrian Farrel > > Qin Wu > > Filename : draft-ietf-netmod-artwork-folding-06.txt > > Pages : 26 > > Date : 2019-06-27 > > > > Abstract: > > This document defines two strategies for handling long lines in > > width-bounded text content. One strategy is based on the historic > > use of a single backslash ('\') character to indicate where line- > > folding has occurred, with the continuation occurring with the first > > non-space (' ') character on the next line. The second strategy > > extends the first strategy by adding a second backslash character to > > identify where the continuation begins and thereby able to handle > > cases not supported by the first strategy. Both strategies use a > > self-describing header enabling automated reconstitution of the > > original content. > > > > > > The IETF datatracker status page for this draft is: > > https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-netmod-artwork-folding/ > > > > There are also htmlized versions available at: > > https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-netmod-artwork-folding-06 > > https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/html/draft-ietf-netmod-artwork-folding-06 > > > > A diff from the previous version is available at: > > https://www.ietf.org/rfcdiff?url2=draft-ietf-netmod-artwork-folding-06 > > > > > > Please note that it may take a couple of minutes from the time of submission > > until the htmlized version and diff are available at tools.ietf.org. > > > > Internet-Drafts are also available by anonymous FTP at: > > ftp://ftp.ietf.org/internet-drafts/ From nobody Thu Jun 27 20:29:34 2019 Return-Path: X-Original-To: netmod@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: netmod@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0B693120279; Thu, 27 Jun 2019 20:29:31 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -4.199 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-4.199 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-2.3, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id gdKYgLsXLHNV; Thu, 27 Jun 2019 20:29:28 -0700 (PDT) Received: from huawei.com (lhrrgout.huawei.com [185.176.76.210]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 11228120094; Thu, 27 Jun 2019 20:29:28 -0700 (PDT) Received: from LHREML714-CAH.china.huawei.com (unknown [172.18.7.107]) by Forcepoint Email with ESMTP id 692224F0B746A6CDB317; Fri, 28 Jun 2019 04:29:26 +0100 (IST) Received: from lhreml711-chm.china.huawei.com (10.201.108.62) by LHREML714-CAH.china.huawei.com (10.201.108.37) with Microsoft SMTP Server (TLS) id 14.3.408.0; Fri, 28 Jun 2019 04:29:26 +0100 Received: from lhreml711-chm.china.huawei.com (10.201.108.62) by lhreml711-chm.china.huawei.com (10.201.108.62) with Microsoft SMTP Server (version=TLS1_2, cipher=TLS_ECDHE_RSA_WITH_AES_128_GCM_SHA256) id 15.1.1713.5; Fri, 28 Jun 2019 04:29:25 +0100 Received: from DGGEMM405-HUB.china.huawei.com (10.3.20.213) by lhreml711-chm.china.huawei.com (10.201.108.62) with Microsoft SMTP Server (version=TLS1_0, cipher=TLS_ECDHE_RSA_WITH_AES_128_CBC_SHA) id 15.1.1713.5 via Frontend Transport; Fri, 28 Jun 2019 04:29:25 +0100 Received: from DGGEMM513-MBX.china.huawei.com ([169.254.1.175]) by DGGEMM405-HUB.china.huawei.com ([10.3.20.213]) with mapi id 14.03.0439.000; Fri, 28 Jun 2019 11:29:15 +0800 From: "Fengchong (frank)" To: "netconf@ietf.org" , "netmod@ietf.org" CC: Yangshouchuan , "Zhangwei (SS)" Thread-Topic: pls clarify get operation Thread-Index: AdUsiu4JIzTUBFYNTIGSUYTtxnFLqwA1gt7Q Date: Fri, 28 Jun 2019 03:29:14 +0000 Message-ID: <5756FB984666AD4BB8E1D63E2E3AA3D001ED5E20@dggemm513-mbx.china.huawei.com> Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: zh-CN X-MS-Has-Attach: yes X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-originating-ip: [10.134.40.226] Content-Type: multipart/related; boundary="_004_5756FB984666AD4BB8E1D63E2E3AA3D001ED5E20dggemm513mbxchi_"; type="multipart/alternative" MIME-Version: 1.0 X-CFilter-Loop: Reflected Archived-At: Subject: [netmod] =?utf-8?b?562U5aSNOiBwbHMgY2xhcmlmeSBnZXQgIG9wZXJhdGlv?= =?utf-8?q?n?= X-BeenThere: netmod@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: NETMOD WG list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 28 Jun 2019 03:29:31 -0000 --_004_5756FB984666AD4BB8E1D63E2E3AA3D001ED5E20dggemm513mbxchi_ Content-Type: multipart/alternative; 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netmod@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: netmod@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 731651200D5 for ; Fri, 28 Jun 2019 00:52:21 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.899 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.899 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id qHtcmSIXJhPV for ; Fri, 28 Jun 2019 00:52:19 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail.tail-f.com (mail.tail-f.com [46.21.102.45]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9553D12004C for ; Fri, 28 Jun 2019 00:52:19 -0700 (PDT) Received: from localhost (unknown [173.38.220.61]) by mail.tail-f.com (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id CFE791AE0351; Fri, 28 Jun 2019 09:52:16 +0200 (CEST) Date: Fri, 28 Jun 2019 09:52:20 +0200 (CEST) Message-Id: <20190628.095220.132556743471062206.mbj@tail-f.com> To: j.schoenwaelder@jacobs-university.de Cc: frank.fengchong@huawei.com, andy@yumaworks.com, netmod@ietf.org From: Martin Bjorklund In-Reply-To: <20190627201328.3gp7a6vgxzhxxwek@anna.jacobs.jacobs-university.de> References: <20190627200118.5el3ih6frka5elmh@anna.jacobs.jacobs-university.de> <20190627.220450.2014107990410615280.mbj@tail-f.com> <20190627201328.3gp7a6vgxzhxxwek@anna.jacobs.jacobs-university.de> X-Mailer: Mew version 6.7 on Emacs 25.2 / Mule 6.0 (HANACHIRUSATO) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: Text/Plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Archived-At: Subject: Re: [netmod] =?utf-8?b?562U5aSNOiAgRlc6IGEgcXVlc3Rpb24gYWJvdXQgaWV0?= =?utf-8?q?f-hardware_yang_module?= X-BeenThere: netmod@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: NETMOD WG list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 28 Jun 2019 07:52:22 -0000 Juergen Schoenwaelder wrote: > On Thu, Jun 27, 2019 at 10:04:50PM +0200, Martin Bjorklund wrote: > > Juergen Schoenwaelder wrote: > > > On Thu, Jun 27, 2019 at 09:52:56PM +0200, Martin Bjorklund wrote: > > > > > Yes, good point, I think the phrase "by a different hardware > > > > > component" should be removed. It seems last-change should change when > > > > > I unplug a component and I plug it back shortly after, i.e., a > > > > > component is replaced by itself. So we have: > > > > > > > > > > "The last time a new hardware component has been added to the > > > > > '/hardware/component' list, or a hardware component has been > > > > > removed from the '/hardware/component' list, or a hardware > > > > > component in the '/hardware/component' list has been > > > > > replaced." > > > > > > > > I think that this is still not clear what it means that a component > > > > has been replaced. Do you mean "replaced by a different hardware > > > > component"? > > > > > > > > Otherwise (unplug then plug in the same component), the system either > > > > detects the removal and thus updates last-change, or it doesn't detect > > > > the quick removal/insertion, and then it can't do anything. Thus, I > > > > don't think this case needs special treatment, and the text could be > > > > just: > > > > > > > > "The last time a new hardware component has been added to the > > > > '/hardware/component' list, or a hardware component has been > > > > removed from the '/hardware/component' list." > > > > > > > > > > The question is whether every implementor will figure out that if the > > > component found in some slot x-y-z is different from what is expected > > > to be in slot x-y-z, this must be seen as a remove + add combination. > > > If we include 'replace', then it may be clearer that even in the case > > > where what is in slot x-y-z has changed, the last-change must be > > > updated. (That is, the list element with the same name still exists > > > but it is different from what was there before with the same name.) > > > > But then we're back to where we started - what exactly does "different > > from what was there before" mean? Presumably that some leaf's value > > is different...? > > > > Go back some emails, I have removed the 'different' phrase. Perhaps we can say: [...] or a hardware component in the '/hardware/component' list has been replaced with a new hardware component with the same name. /martin From nobody Fri Jun 28 01:07:22 2019 Return-Path: X-Original-To: netmod@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: netmod@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 34AF0120139 for ; Fri, 28 Jun 2019 01:07:20 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.897 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.897 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_NONE=0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id KFRHkcUcBRWV for ; Fri, 28 Jun 2019 01:07:17 -0700 (PDT) Received: from atlas5.jacobs-university.de (atlas5.jacobs-university.de [212.201.44.20]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ADH-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id E9B651200DF for ; Fri, 28 Jun 2019 01:07:16 -0700 (PDT) Received: from localhost (demetrius5.irc-it.jacobs-university.de [10.70.0.222]) by atlas5.jacobs-university.de (Postfix) with ESMTP id 85372831; Fri, 28 Jun 2019 10:07:15 +0200 (CEST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at jacobs-university.de Received: from atlas5.jacobs-university.de ([10.70.0.198]) by localhost (demetrius5.jacobs-university.de [10.70.0.222]) (amavisd-new, port 10032) with ESMTP id pOJ598DB4Jdh; Fri, 28 Jun 2019 10:07:15 +0200 (CEST) Received: from hermes.jacobs-university.de (hermes.jacobs-university.de [212.201.44.23]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (Client CN "hermes.jacobs-university.de", Issuer "DFN-Verein Global Issuing CA" (verified OK)) by atlas5.jacobs-university.de (Postfix) with ESMTPS; Fri, 28 Jun 2019 10:07:15 +0200 (CEST) Received: from localhost (demetrius5.irc-it.jacobs-university.de [10.70.0.222]) by hermes.jacobs-university.de (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6C82D20126; Fri, 28 Jun 2019 10:07:15 +0200 (CEST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at jacobs-university.de Received: from hermes.jacobs-university.de ([212.201.44.23]) by localhost (demetrius5.jacobs-university.de [10.70.0.222]) (amavisd-new, port 10028) with ESMTP id X6iton6dEuTG; Fri, 28 Jun 2019 10:07:15 +0200 (CEST) Received: from exchange.jacobs-university.de (sxchmb04.jacobs.jacobs-university.de [10.70.0.156]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (Client CN "exchange.jacobs-university.de", Issuer "DFN-Verein Global Issuing CA" (verified OK)) by hermes.jacobs-university.de (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 07D1520128; Fri, 28 Jun 2019 10:07:14 +0200 (CEST) Received: from anna.localdomain (10.50.218.117) by sxchmb03.jacobs.jacobs-university.de (10.70.0.155) with Microsoft SMTP Server (version=TLS1_2, cipher=TLS_ECDHE_RSA_WITH_AES_256_GCM_SHA384) id 15.1.1713.5; Fri, 28 Jun 2019 10:07:13 +0200 Received: by anna.localdomain (Postfix, from userid 501) id ABD7A300A8D732; Fri, 28 Jun 2019 10:07:13 +0200 (CEST) Date: Fri, 28 Jun 2019 10:07:13 +0200 From: Juergen Schoenwaelder To: Martin Bjorklund CC: , , Message-ID: <20190628080713.ccrcxwnddubpwnsy@anna.jacobs.jacobs-university.de> Reply-To: Juergen Schoenwaelder Mail-Followup-To: Martin Bjorklund , frank.fengchong@huawei.com, andy@yumaworks.com, netmod@ietf.org References: <20190627200118.5el3ih6frka5elmh@anna.jacobs.jacobs-university.de> <20190627.220450.2014107990410615280.mbj@tail-f.com> <20190627201328.3gp7a6vgxzhxxwek@anna.jacobs.jacobs-university.de> <20190628.095220.132556743471062206.mbj@tail-f.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <20190628.095220.132556743471062206.mbj@tail-f.com> User-Agent: NeoMutt/20180716 X-ClientProxiedBy: SXCHMB01.jacobs.jacobs-university.de (10.70.0.120) To sxchmb03.jacobs.jacobs-university.de (10.70.0.155) Archived-At: Subject: Re: [netmod] =?utf-8?b?562U5aSNOiAgRlc6IGEgcXVlc3Rpb24gYWJvdXQgaWV0?= =?utf-8?q?f-hardware_yang_module?= X-BeenThere: netmod@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: NETMOD WG list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 28 Jun 2019 08:07:20 -0000 On Fri, Jun 28, 2019 at 09:52:20AM +0200, Martin Bjorklund wrote: > Juergen Schoenwaelder wrote: > > On Thu, Jun 27, 2019 at 10:04:50PM +0200, Martin Bjorklund wrote: > > > Juergen Schoenwaelder wrote: > > > > On Thu, Jun 27, 2019 at 09:52:56PM +0200, Martin Bjorklund wrote: > > > > > > Yes, good point, I think the phrase "by a different hardware > > > > > > component" should be removed. It seems last-change should change when > > > > > > I unplug a component and I plug it back shortly after, i.e., a > > > > > > component is replaced by itself. So we have: > > > > > > > > > > > > "The last time a new hardware component has been added to the > > > > > > '/hardware/component' list, or a hardware component has been > > > > > > removed from the '/hardware/component' list, or a hardware > > > > > > component in the '/hardware/component' list has been > > > > > > replaced." > > > > > > > > > > I think that this is still not clear what it means that a component > > > > > has been replaced. Do you mean "replaced by a different hardware > > > > > component"? > > > > > > > > > > Otherwise (unplug then plug in the same component), the system either > > > > > detects the removal and thus updates last-change, or it doesn't detect > > > > > the quick removal/insertion, and then it can't do anything. Thus, I > > > > > don't think this case needs special treatment, and the text could be > > > > > just: > > > > > > > > > > "The last time a new hardware component has been added to the > > > > > '/hardware/component' list, or a hardware component has been > > > > > removed from the '/hardware/component' list." > > > > > > > > > > > > > The question is whether every implementor will figure out that if the > > > > component found in some slot x-y-z is different from what is expected > > > > to be in slot x-y-z, this must be seen as a remove + add combination. > > > > If we include 'replace', then it may be clearer that even in the case > > > > where what is in slot x-y-z has changed, the last-change must be > > > > updated. (That is, the list element with the same name still exists > > > > but it is different from what was there before with the same name.) > > > > > > But then we're back to where we started - what exactly does "different > > > from what was there before" mean? Presumably that some leaf's value > > > is different...? > > > > > > > Go back some emails, I have removed the 'different' phrase. > > Perhaps we can say: > > [...] or a hardware > component in the '/hardware/component' list has been > replaced with a new hardware component with the same > name. > Do we want last-change to be updated when a component gets unplugged and put back, i.e., a component got replaced with itself? Can last-change be used to detect that something messed around with the components (or a component is connected via a bad line)? Or is last-change more strictly for the set of components has changed? If I remove a component and I put it back slowly enough, I might get two last-change updates (the removal and the addition). If a client polls even more slowly, it will see that last-change has changed but it will find the same components. Hence, it seems reasonable to not exclude a replacement or a component with itself since it is a matter of the time resolution with which changes are detected and reported via the operational datastore. /js -- Juergen Schoenwaelder Jacobs University Bremen gGmbH Phone: +49 421 200 3587 Campus Ring 1 | 28759 Bremen | Germany Fax: +49 421 200 3103 From nobody Fri Jun 28 01:14:30 2019 Return-Path: X-Original-To: netmod@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: netmod@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 35267120041 for ; Fri, 28 Jun 2019 01:14:28 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.899 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.899 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 8bFpBGReRPqB for ; Fri, 28 Jun 2019 01:14:26 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail.tail-f.com (mail.tail-f.com [46.21.102.45]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8F8AD12012E for ; Fri, 28 Jun 2019 01:14:26 -0700 (PDT) Received: from localhost (unknown [173.38.220.61]) by mail.tail-f.com (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 20CF61AE0351; Fri, 28 Jun 2019 10:14:25 +0200 (CEST) Date: Fri, 28 Jun 2019 10:14:28 +0200 (CEST) Message-Id: <20190628.101428.1052788302967086668.mbj@tail-f.com> To: j.schoenwaelder@jacobs-university.de Cc: frank.fengchong@huawei.com, andy@yumaworks.com, netmod@ietf.org From: Martin Bjorklund In-Reply-To: <20190628080713.ccrcxwnddubpwnsy@anna.jacobs.jacobs-university.de> References: <20190627201328.3gp7a6vgxzhxxwek@anna.jacobs.jacobs-university.de> <20190628.095220.132556743471062206.mbj@tail-f.com> <20190628080713.ccrcxwnddubpwnsy@anna.jacobs.jacobs-university.de> X-Mailer: Mew version 6.7 on Emacs 25.2 / Mule 6.0 (HANACHIRUSATO) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: Text/Plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Archived-At: Subject: Re: [netmod] =?utf-8?b?562U5aSNOiAgRlc6IGEgcXVlc3Rpb24gYWJvdXQgaWV0?= =?utf-8?q?f-hardware_yang_module?= X-BeenThere: netmod@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: NETMOD WG list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 28 Jun 2019 08:14:28 -0000 Juergen Schoenwaelder wrote: > On Fri, Jun 28, 2019 at 09:52:20AM +0200, Martin Bjorklund wrote: > > Juergen Schoenwaelder wrote: > > > On Thu, Jun 27, 2019 at 10:04:50PM +0200, Martin Bjorklund wrote: > > > > Juergen Schoenwaelder wrote: > > > > > On Thu, Jun 27, 2019 at 09:52:56PM +0200, Martin Bjorklund wrote: > > > > > > > Yes, good point, I think the phrase "by a different hardware > > > > > > > component" should be removed. It seems last-change should change when > > > > > > > I unplug a component and I plug it back shortly after, i.e., a > > > > > > > component is replaced by itself. So we have: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > "The last time a new hardware component has been added to the > > > > > > > '/hardware/component' list, or a hardware component has been > > > > > > > removed from the '/hardware/component' list, or a hardware > > > > > > > component in the '/hardware/component' list has been > > > > > > > replaced." > > > > > > > > > > > > I think that this is still not clear what it means that a component > > > > > > has been replaced. Do you mean "replaced by a different hardware > > > > > > component"? > > > > > > > > > > > > Otherwise (unplug then plug in the same component), the system either > > > > > > detects the removal and thus updates last-change, or it doesn't detect > > > > > > the quick removal/insertion, and then it can't do anything. Thus, I > > > > > > don't think this case needs special treatment, and the text could be > > > > > > just: > > > > > > > > > > > > "The last time a new hardware component has been added to the > > > > > > '/hardware/component' list, or a hardware component has been > > > > > > removed from the '/hardware/component' list." > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > The question is whether every implementor will figure out that if the > > > > > component found in some slot x-y-z is different from what is expected > > > > > to be in slot x-y-z, this must be seen as a remove + add combination. > > > > > If we include 'replace', then it may be clearer that even in the case > > > > > where what is in slot x-y-z has changed, the last-change must be > > > > > updated. (That is, the list element with the same name still exists > > > > > but it is different from what was there before with the same name.) > > > > > > > > But then we're back to where we started - what exactly does "different > > > > from what was there before" mean? Presumably that some leaf's value > > > > is different...? > > > > > > > > > > Go back some emails, I have removed the 'different' phrase. > > > > Perhaps we can say: > > > > [...] or a hardware > > component in the '/hardware/component' list has been > > replaced with a new hardware component with the same > > name. > > > > Do we want last-change to be updated when a component gets unplugged > and put back, i.e., a component got replaced with itself? > > Can last-change be used to detect that something messed around with > the components (or a component is connected via a bad line)? Or is > last-change more strictly for the set of components has changed? > > If I remove a component and I put it back slowly enough, I might get > two last-change updates (the removal and the addition). If a client > polls even more slowly, it will see that last-change has changed but > it will find the same components. Hence, it seems reasonable to not > exclude a replacement or a component with itself since it is a matter > of the time resolution with which changes are detected and reported > via the operational datastore. Agreed. /martin From nobody Fri Jun 28 01:16:28 2019 Return-Path: X-Original-To: netmod@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: netmod@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id DDBB5120165 for ; Fri, 28 Jun 2019 01:16:26 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.897 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.897 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_NONE=0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id GqHovgMqpzit for ; Fri, 28 Jun 2019 01:16:25 -0700 (PDT) Received: from atlas5.jacobs-university.de (atlas5.jacobs-university.de [212.201.44.20]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ADH-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id F00B3120041 for ; Fri, 28 Jun 2019 01:16:24 -0700 (PDT) Received: from localhost (demetrius5.irc-it.jacobs-university.de [10.70.0.222]) by atlas5.jacobs-university.de (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9120D82C; Fri, 28 Jun 2019 10:16:23 +0200 (CEST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at jacobs-university.de Received: from atlas5.jacobs-university.de ([10.70.0.198]) by localhost (demetrius5.jacobs-university.de [10.70.0.222]) (amavisd-new, port 10032) with ESMTP id XPHUWl-5N3w1; Fri, 28 Jun 2019 10:16:23 +0200 (CEST) Received: from hermes.jacobs-university.de (hermes.jacobs-university.de [212.201.44.23]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (Client CN "hermes.jacobs-university.de", Issuer "DFN-Verein Global Issuing CA" (verified OK)) by atlas5.jacobs-university.de (Postfix) with ESMTPS; Fri, 28 Jun 2019 10:16:23 +0200 (CEST) Received: from localhost (demetrius5.irc-it.jacobs-university.de [10.70.0.222]) by hermes.jacobs-university.de (Postfix) with ESMTP id 78F5C20128; Fri, 28 Jun 2019 10:16:23 +0200 (CEST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at jacobs-university.de Received: from hermes.jacobs-university.de ([212.201.44.23]) by localhost (demetrius5.jacobs-university.de [10.70.0.222]) (amavisd-new, port 10028) with ESMTP id Yq86oAHvEAjN; Fri, 28 Jun 2019 10:16:23 +0200 (CEST) Received: from exchange.jacobs-university.de (sxchmb03.jacobs.jacobs-university.de [10.70.0.155]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (Client CN "exchange.jacobs-university.de", Issuer "DFN-Verein Global Issuing CA" (verified OK)) by hermes.jacobs-university.de (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 0C13520126; Fri, 28 Jun 2019 10:16:23 +0200 (CEST) Received: from anna.localdomain (10.50.218.117) by sxchmb03.jacobs.jacobs-university.de (10.70.0.155) with Microsoft SMTP Server (version=TLS1_2, cipher=TLS_ECDHE_RSA_WITH_AES_256_GCM_SHA384) id 15.1.1713.5; Fri, 28 Jun 2019 10:16:22 +0200 Received: by anna.localdomain (Postfix, from userid 501) id 1EF09300A8D7D5; Fri, 28 Jun 2019 10:16:21 +0200 (CEST) Date: Fri, 28 Jun 2019 10:16:21 +0200 From: Juergen Schoenwaelder To: Martin Bjorklund CC: , , Message-ID: <20190628081621.wcmxfhfg5oxhukzt@anna.jacobs.jacobs-university.de> Reply-To: Juergen Schoenwaelder Mail-Followup-To: Martin Bjorklund , frank.fengchong@huawei.com, andy@yumaworks.com, netmod@ietf.org References: <20190627201328.3gp7a6vgxzhxxwek@anna.jacobs.jacobs-university.de> <20190628.095220.132556743471062206.mbj@tail-f.com> <20190628080713.ccrcxwnddubpwnsy@anna.jacobs.jacobs-university.de> <20190628.101428.1052788302967086668.mbj@tail-f.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <20190628.101428.1052788302967086668.mbj@tail-f.com> User-Agent: NeoMutt/20180716 X-ClientProxiedBy: SXCHMB02.jacobs.jacobs-university.de (10.70.0.121) To sxchmb03.jacobs.jacobs-university.de (10.70.0.155) Archived-At: Subject: Re: [netmod] =?utf-8?b?562U5aSNOiAgRlc6IGEgcXVlc3Rpb24gYWJvdXQgaWV0?= =?utf-8?q?f-hardware_yang_module?= X-BeenThere: netmod@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: NETMOD WG list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 28 Jun 2019 08:16:27 -0000 On Fri, Jun 28, 2019 at 10:14:28AM +0200, Martin Bjorklund wrote: > Juergen Schoenwaelder wrote: > > On Fri, Jun 28, 2019 at 09:52:20AM +0200, Martin Bjorklund wrote: > > > Juergen Schoenwaelder wrote: > > > > On Thu, Jun 27, 2019 at 10:04:50PM +0200, Martin Bjorklund wrote: > > > > > Juergen Schoenwaelder wrote: > > > > > > On Thu, Jun 27, 2019 at 09:52:56PM +0200, Martin Bjorklund wrote: > > > > > > > > Yes, good point, I think the phrase "by a different hardware > > > > > > > > component" should be removed. It seems last-change should change when > > > > > > > > I unplug a component and I plug it back shortly after, i.e., a > > > > > > > > component is replaced by itself. So we have: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > "The last time a new hardware component has been added to the > > > > > > > > '/hardware/component' list, or a hardware component has been > > > > > > > > removed from the '/hardware/component' list, or a hardware > > > > > > > > component in the '/hardware/component' list has been > > > > > > > > replaced." > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I think that this is still not clear what it means that a component > > > > > > > has been replaced. Do you mean "replaced by a different hardware > > > > > > > component"? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Otherwise (unplug then plug in the same component), the system either > > > > > > > detects the removal and thus updates last-change, or it doesn't detect > > > > > > > the quick removal/insertion, and then it can't do anything. Thus, I > > > > > > > don't think this case needs special treatment, and the text could be > > > > > > > just: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > "The last time a new hardware component has been added to the > > > > > > > '/hardware/component' list, or a hardware component has been > > > > > > > removed from the '/hardware/component' list." > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > The question is whether every implementor will figure out that if the > > > > > > component found in some slot x-y-z is different from what is expected > > > > > > to be in slot x-y-z, this must be seen as a remove + add combination. > > > > > > If we include 'replace', then it may be clearer that even in the case > > > > > > where what is in slot x-y-z has changed, the last-change must be > > > > > > updated. (That is, the list element with the same name still exists > > > > > > but it is different from what was there before with the same name.) > > > > > > > > > > But then we're back to where we started - what exactly does "different > > > > > from what was there before" mean? Presumably that some leaf's value > > > > > is different...? > > > > > > > > > > > > > Go back some emails, I have removed the 'different' phrase. > > > > > > Perhaps we can say: > > > > > > [...] or a hardware > > > component in the '/hardware/component' list has been > > > replaced with a new hardware component with the same > > > name. > > > > > > > Do we want last-change to be updated when a component gets unplugged > > and put back, i.e., a component got replaced with itself? > > > > Can last-change be used to detect that something messed around with > > the components (or a component is connected via a bad line)? Or is > > last-change more strictly for the set of components has changed? > > > > If I remove a component and I put it back slowly enough, I might get > > two last-change updates (the removal and the addition). If a client > > polls even more slowly, it will see that last-change has changed but > > it will find the same components. Hence, it seems reasonable to not > > exclude a replacement or a component with itself since it is a matter > > of the time resolution with which changes are detected and reported > > via the operational datastore. > > Agreed. > So remove the work "new". /js -- Juergen Schoenwaelder Jacobs University Bremen gGmbH Phone: +49 421 200 3587 Campus Ring 1 | 28759 Bremen | Germany Fax: +49 421 200 3103 From nobody Fri Jun 28 01:38:57 2019 Return-Path: X-Original-To: netmod@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: netmod@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 45B88120176; Fri, 28 Jun 2019 01:38:54 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -14.499 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-14.499 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_HI=-5, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001, USER_IN_DEF_DKIM_WL=-7.5] 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YII= --_004_BYAPR11MB2631D3A01E398ADDBB294588B5FC0BYAPR11MB2631namp_-- From nobody Fri Jun 28 01:50:29 2019 Return-Path: X-Original-To: netmod@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: netmod@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7A371120143; Fri, 28 Jun 2019 01:50:21 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.897 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.897 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_NONE=0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 9w3r9WmlNFKH; Fri, 28 Jun 2019 01:50:18 -0700 (PDT) Received: from atlas5.jacobs-university.de (atlas5.jacobs-university.de [212.201.44.20]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ADH-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by 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userid 501) id 132F1300A8D8AA; Fri, 28 Jun 2019 10:50:14 +0200 (CEST) Date: Fri, 28 Jun 2019 10:50:14 +0200 From: Juergen Schoenwaelder To: "Rob Wilton (rwilton)" CC: "Fengchong (frank)" , "netconf@ietf.org" , "netmod@ietf.org" , "Zhangwei (SS)" Message-ID: <20190628085014.ljxh73fcmiu6iqx7@anna.jacobs.jacobs-university.de> Reply-To: Juergen Schoenwaelder Mail-Followup-To: "Rob Wilton (rwilton)" , "Fengchong (frank)" , "netconf@ietf.org" , "netmod@ietf.org" , "Zhangwei (SS)" References: <5756FB984666AD4BB8E1D63E2E3AA3D001ED5E20@dggemm513-mbx.china.huawei.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: User-Agent: NeoMutt/20180716 X-ClientProxiedBy: SXCHMB01.jacobs.jacobs-university.de (10.70.0.120) To sxchmb03.jacobs.jacobs-university.de (10.70.0.155) X-Clacks-Overhead: GNU Terry Pratchett Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Archived-At: Subject: Re: [netmod] pls clarify get operation X-BeenThere: netmod@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: NETMOD WG list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 28 Jun 2019 08:50:22 -0000 Yes, both the NETCONF operation and the RESTCONF GET on the unified view of the underlying datastores have limitations and a solution in situations where these limitations hurt is to move towards NMDA. /js On Fri, Jun 28, 2019 at 08:38:38AM +0000, Rob Wilton (rwilton) wrote: > Hi Frank, >=20 > Pre NMDA: >=20 > * You have a the datastore, along with some others like <= candidate> and that you can ignore for the purposes of this dis= cussion. > * The datastore can only contains data for schema nodes t= hat are marked as =E2=80=9Cconfig true=E2=80=9D in YANG (i.e. =E2=80=9Crw= =E2=80=9D in your tree output below). > * The system may also have some operational state data that is mark= ed as =E2=80=9Cconfig false=E2=80=9D in YANG (i.e. =E2=80=9Cro=E2=80=9D i= n your tree output below). >=20 > The NETCONF operation returns the contents of the datastore. > The NETCONF operation returns the contents of the datas= tore combined with all the operational state as well. Filters can be app= lied to return a subset of the data. >=20 > Regarding your question about user created configuration vs system crea= ted configuration, it depends on whether the devices instantiates the con= figuration in or not. If it does, then it would be returned in= and operations. If it doesn=E2=80=99t then it would = not. Different vendors/devices will likely implement this in different w= ays. >=20 > Generally, I think that should only contain the configuration= explicitly configured by the operator=E2=80=99s systems. But this means= that there isn=E2=80=99t a clean way to represent system created configu= ration or applied configuration, unless you make a config false copy of e= very config true node in YANG. This is approach that was taken by the or= iginal IETF YANG models (e.g. RFC 7223) before they were superseded by NM= DA, and also the OpenConfig YANG models (but using a different structure = =E2=80=93 which also struggles to cleanly represent system created config= uration data). >=20 > The NMDA architecture was written to solve this problem in a clean way = without requiring duplication in the YANG data models. >=20 > Hopefully this helps clarify. >=20 > Thanks, > Rob >=20 >=20 > From: netmod On Behalf Of Fengchong (frank) > Sent: 28 June 2019 04:29 > To: netconf@ietf.org; netmod@ietf.org > Cc: Zhangwei (SS) > Subject: [netmod] =E7=AD=94=E5=A4=8D: pls clarify get operation >=20 > Hi all, >=20 > Pls clarify this question. I have been confused for a long time. >=20 > ________________________________ > =E5=8D=8E=E4=B8=BA=E6=8A=80=E6=9C=AF=E6=9C=89=E9=99=90=E5=85=AC=E5=8F=B8= Huawei Technologies Co., Ltd. > [Company_logo] > =E4=B8=AA=E4=BA=BA=E7=AD=BE=E5=90=8D=EF=BC=9A=E5=86=AF=E5=86=B2 > =E6=89=8B=E3=80=80=E3=80=80=E6=9C=BA=EF=BC=9A13776612983 > =E7=94=B5=E5=AD=90=E9=82=AE=E4=BB=B6=EF=BC=9Afrank.fengchong@huawei.com= > =E5=85=AC=E5=8F=B8=E7=BD=91=E5=9D=80=EF=BC=9Awww.huawei.com > ________________________________ > =EF=BB=BF =E6=9C=AC=E9=82=AE=E4=BB=B6=E5=8F=8A=E5=85=B6=E9=99=84=E4=BB=B6= =E5=90=AB=E6=9C=89=E5=8D=8E=E4=B8=BA=E5=85=AC=E5=8F=B8=E7=9A=84=E4=BF=9D=E5= =AF=86=E4=BF=A1=E6=81=AF=EF=BC=8C=E4=BB=85=E9=99=90=E4=BA=8E=E5=8F=91=E9=80= =81=E7=BB=99=E4=B8=8A=E9=9D=A2=E5=9C=B0=E5=9D=80=E4=B8=AD=E5=88=97=E5=87=BA= =E7=9A=84=E4=B8=AA=E4=BA=BA=E6=88=96=E7=BE=A4=E7=BB=84=E3=80=82=E7=A6=81 > =E6=AD=A2=E4=BB=BB=E4=BD=95=E5=85=B6=E4=BB=96=E4=BA=BA=E4=BB=A5=E4=BB=BB= =E4=BD=95=E5=BD=A2=E5=BC=8F=E4=BD=BF=E7=94=A8=EF=BC=88=E5=8C=85=E6=8B=AC=E4= =BD=86=E4=B8=8D=E9=99=90=E4=BA=8E=E5=85=A8=E9=83=A8=E6=88=96=E9=83=A8=E5=88= =86=E5=9C=B0=E6=B3=84=E9=9C=B2=E3=80=81=E5=A4=8D=E5=88=B6=E3=80=81=E6=88=96= =E6=95=A3=E5=8F=91=EF=BC=89=E6=9C=AC=E9=82=AE=E4=BB=B6=E4=B8=AD > =E7=9A=84=E4=BF=A1=E6=81=AF=E3=80=82=E5=A6=82=E6=9E=9C=E6=82=A8=E9=94=99= =E6=94=B6=E4=BA=86=E6=9C=AC=E9=82=AE=E4=BB=B6=EF=BC=8C=E8=AF=B7=E6=82=A8=E7= =AB=8B=E5=8D=B3=E7=94=B5=E8=AF=9D=E6=88=96=E9=82=AE=E4=BB=B6=E9=80=9A=E7=9F= =A5=E5=8F=91=E4=BB=B6=E4=BA=BA=E5=B9=B6=E5=88=A0=E9=99=A4=E6=9C=AC=E9=82=AE= =E4=BB=B6=EF=BC=81 > This e-mail and its attachments contain confidential information from H= UAWEI, which > is intended only for the person or entity whose address is listed above= . Any use of the > information contained herein in any way (including, but not limited to,= total or partial > disclosure, reproduction, or dissemination) by persons other than the i= ntended > recipient(s) is prohibited. If you receive this e-mail in error, please= notify the sender by > phone or email immediately and delete it! >=20 > =E5=8F=91=E4=BB=B6=E4=BA=BA: Fengchong (frank) > =E5=8F=91=E9=80=81=E6=97=B6=E9=97=B4: 2019=E5=B9=B46=E6=9C=8827=E6=97=A5= 9:59 > =E6=94=B6=E4=BB=B6=E4=BA=BA: 'netconf@ietf.org' >; netmod@ietf.org > =E6=8A=84=E9=80=81: Yangshouchuan >; Zhangwei (SS) > > =E4=B8=BB=E9=A2=98: pls clarify get operation >=20 > Hi all, > In RFC6241, get operation is defined as: > 7.7. >=20 > Description: Retrieve running configuration and device state >=20 > information. > This description is too simply, so I think it should be clarified. >=20 > The case is: a data node modelled by one yang can be configured by user= , but also can be created/modified by system or other protocols. If clien= t issues get operation to retrieve this node, > The data is created/modified by system or other protocols SHO= ULD be returned? > For example: > Rib can be configured by user and also can be created by rout= ing protocols. In RFC 8349, the rib list is defined as: >=20 >=20 >=20 > +--rw ribs >=20 > +--rw rib* [name] >=20 > +--rw name string >=20 > +--rw address-family? identityref >=20 > +--ro default-rib? boolean {multiple-ribs}? >=20 > +--ro routes >=20 > | +--ro route* >=20 > | ... >=20 > +---x active-route >=20 > | +---w input >=20 > | | +---w v4ur:destination-address? inet:ipv4-address >=20 > | | +---w v6ur:destination-address? inet:ipv6-address >=20 > | +--ro output >=20 > | ... >=20 > +--rw description? string >=20 >=20 >=20 > If client issued get operation to retrieve ribs from non-NMDA de= vice, rib instance created by routing protocols should be returned? >=20 > Another associated question: If client issued get-config operati= on from non-NMDA device, only user-controlled rib instance should be retu= rned? >=20 > _______________________________________________ > netmod mailing list > netmod@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/netmod --=20 Juergen Schoenwaelder Jacobs University Bremen gGmbH Phone: +49 421 200 3587 Campus Ring 1 | 28759 Bremen | Germany Fax: +49 421 200 3103 From nobody Fri Jun 28 01:54:59 2019 Return-Path: X-Original-To: netmod@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: netmod@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id A3480120188; Fri, 28 Jun 2019 01:54:50 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -4.199 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-4.199 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-2.3, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id dqH00qoKSQSH; Fri, 28 Jun 2019 01:54:47 -0700 (PDT) Received: from huawei.com (lhrrgout.huawei.com [185.176.76.210]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate 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netmod@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: netmod@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id DCE6E120096; Fri, 28 Jun 2019 02:07:25 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -4.2 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-4.2 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-2.3, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id C8VCL-UyYaI5; Fri, 28 Jun 2019 02:07:23 -0700 (PDT) Received: from huawei.com (lhrrgout.huawei.com [185.176.76.210]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id EABA91200B5; Fri, 28 Jun 2019 02:07:22 -0700 (PDT) Received: from lhreml704-cah.china.huawei.com (unknown [172.18.7.106]) by Forcepoint Email with ESMTP id 509BE2D612A13BC11A45; Fri, 28 Jun 2019 10:07:21 +0100 (IST) Received: from DGGEMM401-HUB.china.huawei.com (10.3.20.209) by lhreml704-cah.china.huawei.com (10.201.108.45) with Microsoft SMTP Server (TLS) id 14.3.408.0; Fri, 28 Jun 2019 10:07:20 +0100 Received: from DGGEMM513-MBX.china.huawei.com ([169.254.1.175]) by DGGEMM401-HUB.china.huawei.com ([10.3.20.209]) with mapi id 14.03.0439.000; Fri, 28 Jun 2019 17:07:12 +0800 From: "Fengchong (frank)" To: Juergen Schoenwaelder , "Rob Wilton (rwilton)" CC: "netconf@ietf.org" , "netmod@ietf.org" , "Zhangwei (SS)" Thread-Topic: [netmod] pls clarify get operation Thread-Index: AdUsiu4JIzTUBFYNTIGSUYTtxnFLqwA1gt7QAApPi5D//4J1AP//d2mw Date: Fri, 28 Jun 2019 09:07:12 +0000 Message-ID: <5756FB984666AD4BB8E1D63E2E3AA3D001ED6082@dggemm513-mbx.china.huawei.com> References: <5756FB984666AD4BB8E1D63E2E3AA3D001ED5E20@dggemm513-mbx.china.huawei.com> <20190628085014.ljxh73fcmiu6iqx7@anna.jacobs.jacobs-university.de> In-Reply-To: <20190628085014.ljxh73fcmiu6iqx7@anna.jacobs.jacobs-university.de> Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: zh-CN X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-originating-ip: [10.134.40.226] Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-CFilter-Loop: Reflected Archived-At: Subject: [netmod] =?utf-8?b?562U5aSNOiAgcGxzIGNsYXJpZnkgZ2V0ICBvcGVyYXRp?= =?utf-8?q?on?= X-BeenThere: netmod@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: NETMOD WG list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 28 Jun 2019 09:07:26 -0000 U2hvdWxkIHdlIGNoYW5nZSB0aGUgZGVmaW5pdGlvbiBvZiBnZXQgb3BlcmF0aW9uPyBMaWtlIHRo aXMsIGdldCBvcGVyYXRpb24gY2FuIHJldHJpZXZlIGFsbCBydW5uaW5nIG9wZXJhdGlvbmFsIGRh dGEgaW5jbHVkaW5nIHJ1bm5pbmcgY29uZmlndXJhdGlvbiwgc3lzdGVtIGNvbmZpZ3VyYXRpb24u DQpPdGhlcndpc2UsIHdlIGhhdmUgbm8gd2F5IHRvIGdldCB0aGUgaW5mb3JtYXRpb24gb2Ygc3lz 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[127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 551B71201C5; Fri, 28 Jun 2019 02:20:07 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.897 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.897 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_NONE=0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 0FypDDx7tWJu; Fri, 28 Jun 2019 02:20:05 -0700 (PDT) Received: from atlas5.jacobs-university.de (atlas5.jacobs-university.de [212.201.44.20]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ADH-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id B88B0120143; Fri, 28 Jun 2019 02:20:04 -0700 (PDT) Received: from localhost (demetrius5.irc-it.jacobs-university.de [10.70.0.222]) by atlas5.jacobs-university.de (Postfix) with ESMTP id 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(demetrius5.jacobs-university.de [10.70.0.222]) (amavisd-new, port 10028) with ESMTP id z1WTt0i7vBIj; Fri, 28 Jun 2019 11:20:02 +0200 (CEST) Received: from exchange.jacobs-university.de (sxchmb04.jacobs.jacobs-university.de [10.70.0.156]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (Client CN "exchange.jacobs-university.de", Issuer "DFN-Verein Global Issuing CA" (verified OK)) by hermes.jacobs-university.de (Postfix) with ESMTPS id BCB5520126; Fri, 28 Jun 2019 11:20:02 +0200 (CEST) Received: from anna.localdomain (10.50.218.117) by sxchmb03.jacobs.jacobs-university.de (10.70.0.155) with Microsoft SMTP Server (version=TLS1_2, cipher=TLS_ECDHE_RSA_WITH_AES_256_GCM_SHA384) id 15.1.1713.5; Fri, 28 Jun 2019 11:20:02 +0200 Received: by anna.localdomain (Postfix, from userid 501) id B8CBC300A8D99C; Fri, 28 Jun 2019 11:20:01 +0200 (CEST) Date: Fri, 28 Jun 2019 11:20:01 +0200 From: Juergen Schoenwaelder To: "Fengchong (frank)" CC: "Rob Wilton (rwilton)" , "netconf@ietf.org" , "netmod@ietf.org" , "Zhangwei (SS)" Message-ID: <20190628092001.koixu7ea6dfew6k3@anna.jacobs.jacobs-university.de> Reply-To: Juergen Schoenwaelder Mail-Followup-To: "Fengchong (frank)" , "Rob Wilton (rwilton)" , "netconf@ietf.org" , "netmod@ietf.org" , "Zhangwei (SS)" References: <5756FB984666AD4BB8E1D63E2E3AA3D001ED5E20@dggemm513-mbx.china.huawei.com> <20190628085014.ljxh73fcmiu6iqx7@anna.jacobs.jacobs-university.de> <5756FB984666AD4BB8E1D63E2E3AA3D001ED6082@dggemm513-mbx.china.huawei.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <5756FB984666AD4BB8E1D63E2E3AA3D001ED6082@dggemm513-mbx.china.huawei.com> User-Agent: NeoMutt/20180716 X-ClientProxiedBy: SXCHMB04.jacobs.jacobs-university.de (10.70.0.156) To sxchmb03.jacobs.jacobs-university.de (10.70.0.155) X-Clacks-Overhead: GNU Terry Pratchett Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Archived-At: Subject: Re: [netmod] =?utf-8?b?562U5aSNOiAgcGxzIGNsYXJpZnkgZ2V0ICBvcGVyYXRp?= =?utf-8?q?on?= X-BeenThere: netmod@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: NETMOD WG list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 28 Jun 2019 09:20:07 -0000 The operation has limitations. Data elements with the same key can be different in and and merging them together simply does not work. The workaround is to duplicate data models or to move to NMDA. NMDA may seem initially costly but is getting cheaper the larger your collection of data models grows. /js On Fri, Jun 28, 2019 at 09:07:12AM +0000, Fengchong (frank) wrote: > Should we change the definition of get operation? Like this, get operat= ion can retrieve all running operational data including running configura= tion, system configuration. > Otherwise, we have no way to get the information of system-controlled d= ata according a NMDA-style YANG module(because has no config false copy )= unless we implement NMDA. > -----=E9=82=AE=E4=BB=B6=E5=8E=9F=E4=BB=B6----- > =E5=8F=91=E4=BB=B6=E4=BA=BA: Juergen Schoenwaelder [mailto:j.schoenwael= der@jacobs-university.de]=20 > =E5=8F=91=E9=80=81=E6=97=B6=E9=97=B4: 2019=E5=B9=B46=E6=9C=8828=E6=97=A5= 16:50 > =E6=94=B6=E4=BB=B6=E4=BA=BA: Rob Wilton (rwilton) > =E6=8A=84=E9=80=81: Fengchong (frank) ; net= conf@ietf.org; netmod@ietf.org; Zhangwei (SS) > =E4=B8=BB=E9=A2=98: Re: [netmod] pls clarify get operation >=20 > Yes, both the NETCONF operation and the RESTCONF GET on the unifi= ed view of the underlying datastores have limitations and a solution in s= ituations where these limitations hurt is to move towards NMDA. >=20 > /js >=20 > On Fri, Jun 28, 2019 at 08:38:38AM +0000, Rob Wilton (rwilton) wrote: > > Hi Frank, > >=20 > > Pre NMDA: > >=20 > > * You have a the datastore, along with some others like= and that you can ignore for the purposes of this d= iscussion. > > * The datastore can only contains data for schema nodes= that are marked as =E2=80=9Cconfig true=E2=80=9D in YANG (i.e. =E2=80=9C= rw=E2=80=9D in your tree output below). > > * The system may also have some operational state data that is ma= rked as =E2=80=9Cconfig false=E2=80=9D in YANG (i.e. =E2=80=9Cro=E2=80=9D= in your tree output below). > >=20 > > The NETCONF operation returns the contents of the datastore. > > The NETCONF operation returns the contents of the dat= astore combined with all the operational state as well. Filters can be a= pplied to return a subset of the data. > >=20 > > Regarding your question about user created configuration vs system cr= eated configuration, it depends on whether the devices instantiates the c= onfiguration in or not. If it does, then it would be returned = in and operations. If it doesn=E2=80=99t then it woul= d not. Different vendors/devices will likely implement this in different= ways. > >=20 > > Generally, I think that should only contain the configurati= on explicitly configured by the operator=E2=80=99s systems. But this mea= ns that there isn=E2=80=99t a clean way to represent system created confi= guration or applied configuration, unless you make a config false copy of= every config true node in YANG. This is approach that was taken by the = original IETF YANG models (e.g. RFC 7223) before they were superseded by = NMDA, and also the OpenConfig YANG models (but using a different structur= e =E2=80=93 which also struggles to cleanly represent system created conf= iguration data). > >=20 > > The NMDA architecture was written to solve this problem in a clean wa= y without requiring duplication in the YANG data models. > >=20 > > Hopefully this helps clarify. > >=20 > > Thanks, > > Rob > >=20 > >=20 > > From: netmod On Behalf Of Fengchong (frank) > > Sent: 28 June 2019 04:29 > > To: netconf@ietf.org; netmod@ietf.org > > Cc: Zhangwei (SS) > > Subject: [netmod] =E7=AD=94=E5=A4=8D: pls clarify get operation > >=20 > > Hi all, > >=20 > > Pls clarify this question. I have been confused for a long time. > >=20 > > ________________________________ > > =E5=8D=8E=E4=B8=BA=E6=8A=80=E6=9C=AF=E6=9C=89=E9=99=90=E5=85=AC=E5=8F= =B8 Huawei Technologies Co., Ltd. > > [Company_logo] > > =E4=B8=AA=E4=BA=BA=E7=AD=BE=E5=90=8D=EF=BC=9A=E5=86=AF=E5=86=B2 > > =E6=89=8B=E3=80=80=E3=80=80=E6=9C=BA=EF=BC=9A13776612983 > > =E7=94=B5=E5=AD=90=E9=82=AE=E4=BB=B6=EF=BC=9Afrank.fengchong@huawei.c= om > > =E5=85=AC=E5=8F=B8=E7=BD=91=E5=9D=80=EF=BC=9Awww.huawei.com > > ________________________________ > > =EF=BB=BF =E6=9C=AC=E9=82=AE=E4=BB=B6=E5=8F=8A=E5=85=B6=E9=99=84=E4=BB= =B6=E5=90=AB=E6=9C=89=E5=8D=8E=E4=B8=BA=E5=85=AC=E5=8F=B8=E7=9A=84=E4=BF=9D= =E5=AF=86=E4=BF=A1=E6=81=AF=EF=BC=8C=E4=BB=85=E9=99=90=E4=BA=8E=E5=8F=91=E9= =80=81=E7=BB=99=E4=B8=8A=E9=9D=A2=E5=9C=B0=E5=9D=80=E4=B8=AD=E5=88=97=E5=87= =BA=E7=9A=84=E4=B8=AA=E4=BA=BA=E6=88=96=E7=BE=A4=E7=BB=84=E3=80=82=E7=A6=81 > > =E6=AD=A2=E4=BB=BB=E4=BD=95=E5=85=B6=E4=BB=96=E4=BA=BA=E4=BB=A5=E4=BB= =BB=E4=BD=95=E5=BD=A2=E5=BC=8F=E4=BD=BF=E7=94=A8=EF=BC=88=E5=8C=85=E6=8B=AC= =E4=BD=86=E4=B8=8D=E9=99=90=E4=BA=8E=E5=85=A8=E9=83=A8=E6=88=96=E9=83=A8=E5= =88=86=E5=9C=B0=E6=B3=84=E9=9C=B2=E3=80=81=E5=A4=8D=E5=88=B6=E3=80=81=E6=88= =96=E6=95=A3=E5=8F=91=EF=BC=89=E6=9C=AC=E9=82=AE=E4=BB=B6=E4=B8=AD > > =E7=9A=84=E4=BF=A1=E6=81=AF=E3=80=82=E5=A6=82=E6=9E=9C=E6=82=A8=E9=94= =99=E6=94=B6=E4=BA=86=E6=9C=AC=E9=82=AE=E4=BB=B6=EF=BC=8C=E8=AF=B7=E6=82=A8= =E7=AB=8B=E5=8D=B3=E7=94=B5=E8=AF=9D=E6=88=96=E9=82=AE=E4=BB=B6=E9=80=9A=E7= =9F=A5=E5=8F=91=E4=BB=B6=E4=BA=BA=E5=B9=B6=E5=88=A0=E9=99=A4=E6=9C=AC=E9=82= =AE=E4=BB=B6=EF=BC=81 > > This e-mail and its attachments contain confidential information from= =20 > > HUAWEI, which is intended only for the person or entity whose address= =20 > > is listed above. Any use of the information contained herein in any=20 > > way (including, but not limited to, total or partial disclosure,=20 > > reproduction, or dissemination) by persons other than the intended > > recipient(s) is prohibited. If you receive this e-mail in error,=20 > > please notify the sender by phone or email immediately and delete it! > >=20 > > =E5=8F=91=E4=BB=B6=E4=BA=BA: Fengchong (frank) > > =E5=8F=91=E9=80=81=E6=97=B6=E9=97=B4: 2019=E5=B9=B46=E6=9C=8827=E6=97= =A5 9:59 > > =E6=94=B6=E4=BB=B6=E4=BA=BA: 'netconf@ietf.org' >;=20 > > netmod@ietf.org > > =E6=8A=84=E9=80=81: Yangshouchuan=20 > > >; Zhangwei= =20 > > (SS) > > > =E4=B8=BB=E9=A2=98: pls clarify get operation > >=20 > > Hi all, > > In RFC6241, get operation is defined as: > > 7.7. > >=20 > > Description: Retrieve running configuration and device state > >=20 > > information. > > This description is too simply, so I think it should be clarified. > >=20 > > The case is: a data node modelled by one yang can be configured by us= er, but also can be created/modified by system or other protocols. If cli= ent issues get operation to retrieve this node, > > The data is created/modified by system or other protocols S= HOULD be returned? > > For example: > > Rib can be configured by user and also can be created by ro= uting protocols. In RFC 8349, the rib list is defined as: > >=20 > >=20 > >=20 > > +--rw ribs > >=20 > > +--rw rib* [name] > >=20 > > +--rw name string > >=20 > > +--rw address-family? identityref > >=20 > > +--ro default-rib? boolean {multiple-ribs}? > >=20 > > +--ro routes > >=20 > > | +--ro route* > >=20 > > | ... > >=20 > > +---x active-route > >=20 > > | +---w input > >=20 > > | | +---w v4ur:destination-address? inet:ipv4-address > >=20 > > | | +---w v6ur:destination-address? inet:ipv6-address > >=20 > > | +--ro output > >=20 > > | ... > >=20 > > +--rw description? string > >=20 > >=20 > >=20 > > If client issued get operation to retrieve ribs from non-NMDA = device, rib instance created by routing protocols should be returned? > >=20 > > Another associated question: If client issued get-config opera= tion from non-NMDA device, only user-controlled rib instance should be re= turned? > >=20 >=20 >=20 >=20 > > _______________________________________________ > > netmod mailing list > > netmod@ietf.org > > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/netmod >=20 >=20 > --=20 > Juergen Schoenwaelder Jacobs University Bremen gGmbH > Phone: +49 421 200 3587 Campus Ring 1 | 28759 Bremen | Germany > Fax: +49 421 200 3103 --=20 Juergen Schoenwaelder Jacobs University Bremen gGmbH Phone: +49 421 200 3587 Campus Ring 1 | 28759 Bremen | Germany Fax: +49 421 200 3103 From nobody Fri Jun 28 02:31:24 2019 Return-Path: X-Original-To: netmod@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: netmod@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id C143F1201D8; Fri, 28 Jun 2019 02:31:22 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -4.2 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-4.2 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-2.3, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id wlBKO6pya1_b; Fri, 28 Jun 2019 02:31:20 -0700 (PDT) Received: from huawei.com (lhrrgout.huawei.com [185.176.76.210]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id E3E201201D6; Fri, 28 Jun 2019 02:31:19 -0700 (PDT) Received: from lhreml704-cah.china.huawei.com (unknown [172.18.7.106]) by Forcepoint Email with ESMTP id 302EECA2C198207C1512; Fri, 28 Jun 2019 10:31:18 +0100 (IST) Received: from DGGEMM404-HUB.china.huawei.com (10.3.20.212) by lhreml704-cah.china.huawei.com (10.201.108.45) with Microsoft SMTP Server (TLS) id 14.3.408.0; Fri, 28 Jun 2019 10:31:15 +0100 Received: from DGGEMM513-MBX.china.huawei.com ([169.254.1.175]) by DGGEMM404-HUB.china.huawei.com ([10.3.20.212]) with mapi id 14.03.0439.000; Fri, 28 Jun 2019 17:29:16 +0800 From: "Fengchong (frank)" To: Juergen Schoenwaelder CC: "Rob Wilton (rwilton)" , "netconf@ietf.org" , "netmod@ietf.org" , "Zhangwei (SS)" Thread-Topic: =?utf-8?B?562U5aSNOiBbbmV0bW9kXSBwbHMgY2xhcmlmeSBnZXQgIG9wZXJhdGlvbg==?= Thread-Index: AdUsiu4JIzTUBFYNTIGSUYTtxnFLqwA1gt7QAApPi5D//4J1AP//d2mwgACQ6YD//3gFMA== Date: Fri, 28 Jun 2019 09:29:15 +0000 Message-ID: <5756FB984666AD4BB8E1D63E2E3AA3D001ED60DE@dggemm513-mbx.china.huawei.com> References: <5756FB984666AD4BB8E1D63E2E3AA3D001ED5E20@dggemm513-mbx.china.huawei.com> <20190628085014.ljxh73fcmiu6iqx7@anna.jacobs.jacobs-university.de> <5756FB984666AD4BB8E1D63E2E3AA3D001ED6082@dggemm513-mbx.china.huawei.com> <20190628092001.koixu7ea6dfew6k3@anna.jacobs.jacobs-university.de> In-Reply-To: <20190628092001.koixu7ea6dfew6k3@anna.jacobs.jacobs-university.de> Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: zh-CN X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-originating-ip: [10.134.40.226] Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-CFilter-Loop: Reflected Archived-At: Subject: [netmod] 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A863412017D; Fri, 28 Jun 2019 07:09:20 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -4.2 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-4.2 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-2.3, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id CPL-2iAp_TqM; Fri, 28 Jun 2019 07:09:17 -0700 (PDT) Received: from huawei.com (lhrrgout.huawei.com [185.176.76.210]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id EDAA312012B; Fri, 28 Jun 2019 07:09:16 -0700 (PDT) Received: from lhreml704-cah.china.huawei.com (unknown [172.18.7.106]) by Forcepoint Email with ESMTP id A7659855DBD9E47957C5; Fri, 28 Jun 2019 15:09:14 +0100 (IST) Received: from DGGEMM405-HUB.china.huawei.com (10.3.20.213) by lhreml704-cah.china.huawei.com (10.201.108.45) with Microsoft SMTP Server (TLS) id 14.3.408.0; Fri, 28 Jun 2019 15:09:14 +0100 Received: from DGGEMM513-MBX.china.huawei.com ([169.254.1.175]) by DGGEMM405-HUB.china.huawei.com ([10.3.20.213]) with mapi id 14.03.0439.000; Fri, 28 Jun 2019 22:06:54 +0800 From: "Fengchong (frank)" To: "Rob Wilton (rwilton)" , Juergen Schoenwaelder CC: "netconf@ietf.org" , "netmod@ietf.org" , "Zhangwei (SS)" , Yangshouchuan , Qin Wu , Yangang , "Zhengguangying (Walker)" Thread-Topic: [netmod] pls clarify get operation Thread-Index: AdUsiu4JIzTUBFYNTIGSUYTtxnFLqwA1gt7QAApPi5D//4J1AP//d2mwgACQbAD//yzvQA== Date: Fri, 28 Jun 2019 14:06:54 +0000 Message-ID: <5756FB984666AD4BB8E1D63E2E3AA3D001ED63C8@dggemm513-mbx.china.huawei.com> References: <5756FB984666AD4BB8E1D63E2E3AA3D001ED5E20@dggemm513-mbx.china.huawei.com> <20190628085014.ljxh73fcmiu6iqx7@anna.jacobs.jacobs-university.de> <5756FB984666AD4BB8E1D63E2E3AA3D001ED6082@dggemm513-mbx.china.huawei.com> 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Fri, 28 Jun 2019 17:02:43 +0200 (CEST) Received: from exchange.jacobs-university.de (sxchmb04.jacobs.jacobs-university.de [10.70.0.156]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (Client CN "exchange.jacobs-university.de", Issuer "DFN-Verein Global Issuing CA" (verified OK)) by hermes.jacobs-university.de (Postfix) with ESMTPS id CBF4B20126; Fri, 28 Jun 2019 17:02:42 +0200 (CEST) Received: from anna.localdomain (10.50.218.117) by sxchmb03.jacobs.jacobs-university.de (10.70.0.155) with Microsoft SMTP Server (version=TLS1_2, cipher=TLS_ECDHE_RSA_WITH_AES_256_GCM_SHA384) id 15.1.1713.5; Fri, 28 Jun 2019 17:02:42 +0200 Received: by anna.localdomain (Postfix, from userid 501) id AFA1C300A8DED8; Fri, 28 Jun 2019 17:02:41 +0200 (CEST) Date: Fri, 28 Jun 2019 17:02:41 +0200 From: Juergen Schoenwaelder To: "Fengchong (frank)" CC: "Rob Wilton (rwilton)" , "netconf@ietf.org" , "netmod@ietf.org" , "Zhangwei (SS)" , Yangshouchuan , Qin Wu , Yangang , "Zhengguangying (Walker)" Message-ID: <20190628150241.fksggvluvkgm57wx@anna.jacobs.jacobs-university.de> Reply-To: Juergen Schoenwaelder Mail-Followup-To: "Fengchong (frank)" , "Rob Wilton (rwilton)" , "netconf@ietf.org" , "netmod@ietf.org" , "Zhangwei (SS)" , Yangshouchuan , Qin Wu , Yangang , "Zhengguangying (Walker)" References: <5756FB984666AD4BB8E1D63E2E3AA3D001ED5E20@dggemm513-mbx.china.huawei.com> <20190628085014.ljxh73fcmiu6iqx7@anna.jacobs.jacobs-university.de> <5756FB984666AD4BB8E1D63E2E3AA3D001ED6082@dggemm513-mbx.china.huawei.com> <5756FB984666AD4BB8E1D63E2E3AA3D001ED63C8@dggemm513-mbx.china.huawei.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <5756FB984666AD4BB8E1D63E2E3AA3D001ED63C8@dggemm513-mbx.china.huawei.com> User-Agent: NeoMutt/20180716 X-ClientProxiedBy: SXCHMB04.jacobs.jacobs-university.de (10.70.0.156) To sxchmb03.jacobs.jacobs-university.de (10.70.0.155) X-Clacks-Overhead: GNU Terry Pratchett Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Archived-At: Subject: Re: [netmod] =?utf-8?b?562U5aSNOiAgcGxzIGNsYXJpZnkgZ2V0ICBvcGVyYXRp?= =?utf-8?q?on?= X-BeenThere: netmod@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: NETMOD WG list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 28 Jun 2019 15:02:54 -0000 Frank, if the simplistic model behind NETCONF's or RESTCONF's unified view on the datastores does not work for you, you have to invest in a proper solution. Every solution addressing the limitation has costs. There is no free lunch. /js On Fri, Jun 28, 2019 at 02:06:54PM +0000, Fengchong (frank) wrote: > Hi Rob, > I think IETF solution: migrate to NMDA is unrealistic. The cost of = migration to NMDA is too expensive, If the entire industry migrates to NM= DA, the time will be long. > This will delay the deployment of the IETF model in the industry.=20 > Anyway, even if vendor implements NMDA, the network manager/ contro= ller or client tools may not support NMDA client.=20 > A non-NMDA client only support get/get-config, it still has no way = to retrieve system-controlled data. >=20 > Generation config false copy for IETF YANG model is not reasonable,= because published IETF standard YANG should not be changed, moreover, th= is is not friendly to the client or the server. > -----=E9=82=AE=E4=BB=B6=E5=8E=9F=E4=BB=B6----- > =E5=8F=91=E4=BB=B6=E4=BA=BA: Rob Wilton (rwilton) [mailto:rwilton@cisco= .com]=20 > =E5=8F=91=E9=80=81=E6=97=B6=E9=97=B4: 2019=E5=B9=B46=E6=9C=8828=E6=97=A5= 17:18 > =E6=94=B6=E4=BB=B6=E4=BA=BA: Fengchong (frank) ; Juergen Schoenwaelder > =E6=8A=84=E9=80=81: netconf@ietf.org; netmod@ietf.org; Zhangwei (SS) > =E4=B8=BB=E9=A2=98: RE: [netmod] pls clarify get operation >=20 > Hi Frank, >=20 > You can't just change definitions in RFCs. It breaks all existing clie= nts/servers. Besides, what you suggest doesn't really work (path clashes= between configuration and operational state), unless you return two tree= s ... which starts to look extremely similar to the NMDA architecture ... >=20 > IETF has already explored this problem and there is already a published= IETF solution to the problem that you describe: Migrate to NMDA. The NM= DA architecture has many other benefits as well (E.g. allows for templati= ng, inactive configuration, dynamic configuration, consistent OIR handlin= g). >=20 > Thanks, > Rob >=20 >=20 > -----Original Message----- > From: Fengchong (frank) > Sent: 28 June 2019 10:07 > To: Juergen Schoenwaelder ; Rob W= ilton (rwilton) > Cc: netconf@ietf.org; netmod@ietf.org; Zhangwei (SS) > Subject: =E7=AD=94=E5=A4=8D: [netmod] pls clarify get operation >=20 > Should we change the definition of get operation? Like this, get operat= ion can retrieve all running operational data including running configura= tion, system configuration. > Otherwise, we have no way to get the information of system-controlled d= ata according a NMDA-style YANG module(because has no config false copy )= unless we implement NMDA. > -----=E9=82=AE=E4=BB=B6=E5=8E=9F=E4=BB=B6----- > =E5=8F=91=E4=BB=B6=E4=BA=BA: Juergen Schoenwaelder [mailto:j.schoenwael= der@jacobs-university.de] > =E5=8F=91=E9=80=81=E6=97=B6=E9=97=B4: 2019=E5=B9=B46=E6=9C=8828=E6=97=A5= 16:50 > =E6=94=B6=E4=BB=B6=E4=BA=BA: Rob Wilton (rwilton) > =E6=8A=84=E9=80=81: Fengchong (frank) ; net= conf@ietf.org; netmod@ietf.org; Zhangwei (SS) > =E4=B8=BB=E9=A2=98: Re: [netmod] pls clarify get operation >=20 > Yes, both the NETCONF operation and the RESTCONF GET on the unifi= ed view of the underlying datastores have limitations and a solution in s= ituations where these limitations hurt is to move towards NMDA. >=20 > /js >=20 > On Fri, Jun 28, 2019 at 08:38:38AM +0000, Rob Wilton (rwilton) wrote: > > Hi Frank, > >=20 > > Pre NMDA: > >=20 > > * You have a the datastore, along with some others like= and that you can ignore for the purposes of this d= iscussion. > > * The datastore can only contains data for schema nodes= that are marked as =E2=80=9Cconfig true=E2=80=9D in YANG (i.e. =E2=80=9C= rw=E2=80=9D in your tree output below). > > * The system may also have some operational state data that is ma= rked as =E2=80=9Cconfig false=E2=80=9D in YANG (i.e. =E2=80=9Cro=E2=80=9D= in your tree output below). > >=20 > > The NETCONF operation returns the contents of the datastore. > > The NETCONF operation returns the contents of the dat= astore combined with all the operational state as well. Filters can be a= pplied to return a subset of the data. > >=20 > > Regarding your question about user created configuration vs system cr= eated configuration, it depends on whether the devices instantiates the c= onfiguration in or not. If it does, then it would be returned = in and operations. If it doesn=E2=80=99t then it woul= d not. Different vendors/devices will likely implement this in different= ways. > >=20 > > Generally, I think that should only contain the configurati= on explicitly configured by the operator=E2=80=99s systems. But this mea= ns that there isn=E2=80=99t a clean way to represent system created confi= guration or applied configuration, unless you make a config false copy of= every config true node in YANG. This is approach that was taken by the = original IETF YANG models (e.g. RFC 7223) before they were superseded by = NMDA, and also the OpenConfig YANG models (but using a different structur= e =E2=80=93 which also struggles to cleanly represent system created conf= iguration data). > >=20 > > The NMDA architecture was written to solve this problem in a clean wa= y without requiring duplication in the YANG data models. > >=20 > > Hopefully this helps clarify. > >=20 > > Thanks, > > Rob > >=20 > >=20 > > From: netmod On Behalf Of Fengchong (frank) > > Sent: 28 June 2019 04:29 > > To: netconf@ietf.org; netmod@ietf.org > > Cc: Zhangwei (SS) > > Subject: [netmod] =E7=AD=94=E5=A4=8D: pls clarify get operation > >=20 > > Hi all, > >=20 > > Pls clarify this question. I have been confused for a long time. > >=20 > > ________________________________ > > =E5=8D=8E=E4=B8=BA=E6=8A=80=E6=9C=AF=E6=9C=89=E9=99=90=E5=85=AC=E5=8F= =B8 Huawei Technologies Co., Ltd. > > [Company_logo] > > =E4=B8=AA=E4=BA=BA=E7=AD=BE=E5=90=8D=EF=BC=9A=E5=86=AF=E5=86=B2 > > =E6=89=8B=E3=80=80=E3=80=80=E6=9C=BA=EF=BC=9A13776612983 > > =E7=94=B5=E5=AD=90=E9=82=AE=E4=BB=B6=EF=BC=9Afrank.fengchong@huawei.c= om > > =E5=85=AC=E5=8F=B8=E7=BD=91=E5=9D=80=EF=BC=9Awww.huawei.com > > ________________________________ > > =EF=BB=BF =E6=9C=AC=E9=82=AE=E4=BB=B6=E5=8F=8A=E5=85=B6=E9=99=84=E4=BB= =B6=E5=90=AB=E6=9C=89=E5=8D=8E=E4=B8=BA=E5=85=AC=E5=8F=B8=E7=9A=84=E4=BF=9D= =E5=AF=86=E4=BF=A1=E6=81=AF=EF=BC=8C=E4=BB=85=E9=99=90=E4=BA=8E=E5=8F=91=E9= =80=81=E7=BB=99=E4=B8=8A=E9=9D=A2=E5=9C=B0=E5=9D=80=E4=B8=AD=E5=88=97=E5=87= =BA=E7=9A=84=E4=B8=AA=E4=BA=BA=E6=88=96=E7=BE=A4=E7=BB=84=E3=80=82=E7=A6=81 > > =E6=AD=A2=E4=BB=BB=E4=BD=95=E5=85=B6=E4=BB=96=E4=BA=BA=E4=BB=A5=E4=BB= =BB=E4=BD=95=E5=BD=A2=E5=BC=8F=E4=BD=BF=E7=94=A8=EF=BC=88=E5=8C=85=E6=8B=AC= =E4=BD=86=E4=B8=8D=E9=99=90=E4=BA=8E=E5=85=A8=E9=83=A8=E6=88=96=E9=83=A8=E5= =88=86=E5=9C=B0=E6=B3=84=E9=9C=B2=E3=80=81=E5=A4=8D=E5=88=B6=E3=80=81=E6=88= =96=E6=95=A3=E5=8F=91=EF=BC=89=E6=9C=AC=E9=82=AE=E4=BB=B6=E4=B8=AD > > =E7=9A=84=E4=BF=A1=E6=81=AF=E3=80=82=E5=A6=82=E6=9E=9C=E6=82=A8=E9=94= =99=E6=94=B6=E4=BA=86=E6=9C=AC=E9=82=AE=E4=BB=B6=EF=BC=8C=E8=AF=B7=E6=82=A8= =E7=AB=8B=E5=8D=B3=E7=94=B5=E8=AF=9D=E6=88=96=E9=82=AE=E4=BB=B6=E9=80=9A=E7= =9F=A5=E5=8F=91=E4=BB=B6=E4=BA=BA=E5=B9=B6=E5=88=A0=E9=99=A4=E6=9C=AC=E9=82= =AE=E4=BB=B6=EF=BC=81 > > This e-mail and its attachments contain confidential information from= =20 > > HUAWEI, which is intended only for the person or entity whose address= =20 > > is listed above. Any use of the information contained herein in any=20 > > way (including, but not limited to, total or partial disclosure,=20 > > reproduction, or dissemination) by persons other than the intended > > recipient(s) is prohibited. If you receive this e-mail in error,=20 > > please notify the sender by phone or email immediately and delete it! > >=20 > > =E5=8F=91=E4=BB=B6=E4=BA=BA: Fengchong (frank) > > =E5=8F=91=E9=80=81=E6=97=B6=E9=97=B4: 2019=E5=B9=B46=E6=9C=8827=E6=97= =A5 9:59 > > =E6=94=B6=E4=BB=B6=E4=BA=BA: 'netconf@ietf.org' >; > > netmod@ietf.org > > =E6=8A=84=E9=80=81: Yangshouchuan > > >; Zhangwei > > (SS) > > > =E4=B8=BB=E9=A2=98: pls clarify get operation > >=20 > > Hi all, > > In RFC6241, get operation is defined as: > > 7.7. > >=20 > > Description: Retrieve running configuration and device state > >=20 > > information. > > This description is too simply, so I think it should be clarified. > >=20 > > The case is: a data node modelled by one yang can be configured by us= er, but also can be created/modified by system or other protocols. If cli= ent issues get operation to retrieve this node, > > The data is created/modified by system or other protocols S= HOULD be returned? > > For example: > > Rib can be configured by user and also can be created by ro= uting protocols. In RFC 8349, the rib list is defined as: > >=20 > >=20 > >=20 > > +--rw ribs > >=20 > > +--rw rib* [name] > >=20 > > +--rw name string > >=20 > > +--rw address-family? identityref > >=20 > > +--ro default-rib? boolean {multiple-ribs}? > >=20 > > +--ro routes > >=20 > > | +--ro route* > >=20 > > | ... > >=20 > > +---x active-route > >=20 > > | +---w input > >=20 > > | | +---w v4ur:destination-address? inet:ipv4-address > >=20 > > | | +---w v6ur:destination-address? inet:ipv6-address > >=20 > > | +--ro output > >=20 > > | ... > >=20 > > +--rw description? string > >=20 > >=20 > >=20 > > If client issued get operation to retrieve ribs from non-NMDA = device, rib instance created by routing protocols should be returned? > >=20 > > Another associated question: If client issued get-config opera= tion from non-NMDA device, only user-controlled rib instance should be re= turned? > >=20 >=20 >=20 >=20 > > _______________________________________________ > > netmod mailing list > > netmod@ietf.org > > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/netmod >=20 >=20 > --=20 > Juergen Schoenwaelder Jacobs University Bremen gGmbH > Phone: +49 421 200 3587 Campus Ring 1 | 28759 Bremen | Germany > Fax: +49 421 200 3103 --=20 Juergen Schoenwaelder Jacobs University Bremen gGmbH Phone: +49 421 200 3587 Campus Ring 1 | 28759 Bremen | Germany Fax: +49 421 200 3103 From nobody Fri Jun 28 08:05:31 2019 Return-Path: X-Original-To: netmod@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: netmod@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 37B5C120405 for ; 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Fri, 28 Jun 2019 08:05:03 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 References: <5756FB984666AD4BB8E1D63E2E3AA3D001ED5E20@dggemm513-mbx.china.huawei.com> <20190628085014.ljxh73fcmiu6iqx7@anna.jacobs.jacobs-university.de> <5756FB984666AD4BB8E1D63E2E3AA3D001ED6082@dggemm513-mbx.china.huawei.com> <5756FB984666AD4BB8E1D63E2E3AA3D001ED63C8@dggemm513-mbx.china.huawei.com> In-Reply-To: <5756FB984666AD4BB8E1D63E2E3AA3D001ED63C8@dggemm513-mbx.china.huawei.com> From: Andy Bierman Date: Fri, 28 Jun 2019 08:04:52 -0700 Message-ID: To: "Fengchong (frank)" Cc: "Rob Wilton (rwilton)" , Juergen Schoenwaelder , "netmod@ietf.org" , "Zhangwei (SS)" , Yangang , "netconf@ietf.org" Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="000000000000658b5f058c639a5d" Archived-At: Subject: Re: [netmod] =?utf-8?b?W25ldGNvbmZdIOetlOWkjTogIHBscyBjbGFyaWZ5IGdl?= =?utf-8?q?t_operation?= X-BeenThere: netmod@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: NETMOD WG list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 28 Jun 2019 15:05:29 -0000 --000000000000658b5f058c639a5d Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable On Fri, Jun 28, 2019 at 7:09 AM Fengchong (frank) < frank.fengchong@huawei.com> wrote: > Hi Rob, > I think IETF solution: migrate to NMDA is unrealistic. The cost of > migration to NMDA is too expensive, If the entire industry migrates to > NMDA, the time will be long. > This will delay the deployment of the IETF model in the industry. > Anyway, even if vendor implements NMDA, the network manager/ > controller or client tools may not support NMDA client. > A non-NMDA client only support get/get-config, it still has no way to > retrieve system-controlled data. > > Although it would have been possible to augment the existing operation, it is much cleaner to create a new operation instead. (From standards and implementation POV). There is a significant amount of work needed to support NMDA in a server. This effort would be the same whether or was used. The protocol work is the tip of the iceberg. Updating all the instrumentation callbacks to return operational values is the real work -- and exactly the same no matter what protocol solution is used. Client complexity is mostly related to the new YANG library. Starting over on a new solution would only take longer to deploy. Andy > Generation config false copy for IETF YANG model is not reasonable, > because published IETF standard YANG should not be changed, moreover, thi= s > is not friendly to the client or the server. > -----=E9=82=AE=E4=BB=B6=E5=8E=9F=E4=BB=B6----- > =E5=8F=91=E4=BB=B6=E4=BA=BA: Rob Wilton (rwilton) [mailto:rwilton@cisco.c= om] > =E5=8F=91=E9=80=81=E6=97=B6=E9=97=B4: 2019=E5=B9=B46=E6=9C=8828=E6=97=A5 = 17:18 > =E6=94=B6=E4=BB=B6=E4=BA=BA: Fengchong (frank) ; Juergen > Schoenwaelder > =E6=8A=84=E9=80=81: netconf@ietf.org; netmod@ietf.org; Zhangwei (SS) < > zhangwei70@huawei.com> > =E4=B8=BB=E9=A2=98: RE: [netmod] pls clarify get operation > > Hi Frank, > > You can't just change definitions in RFCs. It breaks all existing > clients/servers. Besides, what you suggest doesn't really work (path > clashes between configuration and operational state), unless you return t= wo > trees ... which starts to look extremely similar to the NMDA architecture > ... > > IETF has already explored this problem and there is already a published > IETF solution to the problem that you describe: Migrate to NMDA. The NMD= A > architecture has many other benefits as well (E.g. allows for templating, > inactive configuration, dynamic configuration, consistent OIR handling). > > Thanks, > Rob > > > -----Original Message----- > From: Fengchong (frank) > Sent: 28 June 2019 10:07 > To: Juergen Schoenwaelder ; Rob > Wilton (rwilton) > Cc: netconf@ietf.org; netmod@ietf.org; Zhangwei (SS) < > zhangwei70@huawei.com> > Subject: =E7=AD=94=E5=A4=8D: [netmod] pls clarify get operation > > Should we change the definition of get operation? Like this, get operatio= n > can retrieve all running operational data including running configuration= , > system configuration. > Otherwise, we have no way to get the information of system-controlled dat= a > according a NMDA-style YANG module(because has no config false copy ) > unless we implement NMDA. > -----=E9=82=AE=E4=BB=B6=E5=8E=9F=E4=BB=B6----- > =E5=8F=91=E4=BB=B6=E4=BA=BA: Juergen Schoenwaelder [mailto:j.schoenwaelde= r@jacobs-university.de] > =E5=8F=91=E9=80=81=E6=97=B6=E9=97=B4: 2019=E5=B9=B46=E6=9C=8828=E6=97=A5 = 16:50 > =E6=94=B6=E4=BB=B6=E4=BA=BA: Rob Wilton (rwilton) > =E6=8A=84=E9=80=81: Fengchong (frank) ; netco= nf@ietf.org; > netmod@ietf.org; Zhangwei (SS) > =E4=B8=BB=E9=A2=98: Re: [netmod] pls clarify get operation > > Yes, both the NETCONF operation and the RESTCONF GET on the unified > view of the underlying datastores have limitations and a solution in > situations where these limitations hurt is to move towards NMDA. > > /js > > On Fri, Jun 28, 2019 at 08:38:38AM +0000, Rob Wilton (rwilton) wrote: > > Hi Frank, > > > > Pre NMDA: > > > > * You have a the datastore, along with some others like > and that you can ignore for the purposes of this > discussion. > > * The datastore can only contains data for schema nodes > that are marked as =E2=80=9Cconfig true=E2=80=9D in YANG (i.e. =E2=80=9Cr= w=E2=80=9D in your tree output > below). > > * The system may also have some operational state data that is > marked as =E2=80=9Cconfig false=E2=80=9D in YANG (i.e. =E2=80=9Cro=E2=80= =9D in your tree output below). > > > > The NETCONF operation returns the contents of the > datastore. > > The NETCONF operation returns the contents of the > datastore combined with all the operational state as well. Filters can b= e > applied to return a subset of the data. > > > > Regarding your question about user created configuration vs system > created configuration, it depends on whether the devices instantiates the > configuration in or not. If it does, then it would be returned > in and operations. If it doesn=E2=80=99t then it woul= d not. > Different vendors/devices will likely implement this in different ways. > > > > Generally, I think that should only contain the configuration > explicitly configured by the operator=E2=80=99s systems. But this means = that there > isn=E2=80=99t a clean way to represent system created configuration or ap= plied > configuration, unless you make a config false copy of every config true > node in YANG. This is approach that was taken by the original IETF YANG > models (e.g. RFC 7223) before they were superseded by NMDA, and also the > OpenConfig YANG models (but using a different structure =E2=80=93 which a= lso > struggles to cleanly represent system created configuration data). > > > > The NMDA architecture was written to solve this problem in a clean way > without requiring duplication in the YANG data models. > > > > Hopefully this helps clarify. > > > > Thanks, > > Rob > > > > > > From: netmod On Behalf Of Fengchong (frank) > > Sent: 28 June 2019 04:29 > > To: netconf@ietf.org; netmod@ietf.org > > Cc: Zhangwei (SS) > > Subject: [netmod] =E7=AD=94=E5=A4=8D: pls clarify get operation > > > > Hi all, > > > > Pls clarify this question. I have been confused for a long time. > > > > ________________________________ > > =E5=8D=8E=E4=B8=BA=E6=8A=80=E6=9C=AF=E6=9C=89=E9=99=90=E5=85=AC=E5=8F= =B8 Huawei Technologies Co., Ltd. > > [Company_logo] > > =E4=B8=AA=E4=BA=BA=E7=AD=BE=E5=90=8D=EF=BC=9A=E5=86=AF=E5=86=B2 > > =E6=89=8B =E6=9C=BA=EF=BC=9A13776612983 > > =E7=94=B5=E5=AD=90=E9=82=AE=E4=BB=B6=EF=BC=9Afrank.fengchong@huawei.com= > > =E5=85=AC=E5=8F=B8=E7=BD=91=E5=9D=80=EF=BC=9Awww.huawei.com > > ________________________________ > > =EF=BB=BF =E6=9C=AC=E9=82=AE=E4=BB=B6=E5=8F=8A=E5=85=B6=E9=99=84=E4=BB= =B6=E5=90=AB=E6=9C=89=E5=8D=8E=E4=B8=BA=E5=85=AC=E5=8F=B8=E7=9A=84=E4=BF=9D= =E5=AF=86=E4=BF=A1=E6=81=AF=EF=BC=8C=E4=BB=85=E9=99=90=E4=BA=8E=E5=8F=91=E9= =80=81=E7=BB=99=E4=B8=8A=E9=9D=A2=E5=9C=B0=E5=9D=80=E4=B8=AD=E5=88=97=E5=87= =BA=E7=9A=84=E4=B8=AA=E4=BA=BA=E6=88=96=E7=BE=A4=E7=BB=84=E3=80=82=E7=A6=81 > > =E6=AD=A2=E4=BB=BB=E4=BD=95=E5=85=B6=E4=BB=96=E4=BA=BA=E4=BB=A5=E4=BB= =BB=E4=BD=95=E5=BD=A2=E5=BC=8F=E4=BD=BF=E7=94=A8=EF=BC=88=E5=8C=85=E6=8B=AC= =E4=BD=86=E4=B8=8D=E9=99=90=E4=BA=8E=E5=85=A8=E9=83=A8=E6=88=96=E9=83=A8=E5= =88=86=E5=9C=B0=E6=B3=84=E9=9C=B2=E3=80=81=E5=A4=8D=E5=88=B6=E3=80=81=E6=88= =96=E6=95=A3=E5=8F=91=EF=BC=89=E6=9C=AC=E9=82=AE=E4=BB=B6=E4=B8=AD > > =E7=9A=84=E4=BF=A1=E6=81=AF=E3=80=82=E5=A6=82=E6=9E=9C=E6=82=A8=E9=94= =99=E6=94=B6=E4=BA=86=E6=9C=AC=E9=82=AE=E4=BB=B6=EF=BC=8C=E8=AF=B7=E6=82=A8= =E7=AB=8B=E5=8D=B3=E7=94=B5=E8=AF=9D=E6=88=96=E9=82=AE=E4=BB=B6=E9=80=9A=E7= =9F=A5=E5=8F=91=E4=BB=B6=E4=BA=BA=E5=B9=B6=E5=88=A0=E9=99=A4=E6=9C=AC=E9=82= =AE=E4=BB=B6=EF=BC=81 > > This e-mail and its attachments contain confidential information from > > HUAWEI, which is intended only for the person or entity whose address > > is listed above. Any use of the information contained herein in any > > way (including, but not limited to, total or partial disclosure, > > reproduction, or dissemination) by persons other than the intended > > recipient(s) is prohibited. If you receive this e-mail in error, > > please notify the sender by phone or email immediately and delete it! > > > > =E5=8F=91=E4=BB=B6=E4=BA=BA: Fengchong (frank) > > =E5=8F=91=E9=80=81=E6=97=B6=E9=97=B4: 2019=E5=B9=B46=E6=9C=8827=E6=97= =A5 9:59 > > =E6=94=B6=E4=BB=B6=E4=BA=BA: 'netconf@ietf.org' >; > > netmod@ietf.org > > =E6=8A=84=E9=80=81: Yangshouchuan > > >; Zhangwei > > (SS) > > > =E4=B8=BB=E9=A2=98: pls clarify get operation > > > > Hi all, > > In RFC6241, get operation is defined as: > > 7.7. > > > > Description: Retrieve running configuration and device state > > > > information. > > This description is too simply, so I think it should be clarified. > > > > The case is: a data node modelled by one yang can be configured by user= , > but also can be created/modified by system or other protocols. If client > issues get operation to retrieve this node, > > The data is created/modified by system or other protocols > SHOULD be returned? > > For example: > > Rib can be configured by user and also can be created by > routing protocols. In RFC 8349, the rib list is defined as: > > > > > > > > +--rw ribs > > > > +--rw rib* [name] > > > > +--rw name string > > > > +--rw address-family? identityref > > > > +--ro default-rib? boolean {multiple-ribs}? > > > > +--ro routes > > > > | +--ro route* > > > > | ... > > > > +---x active-route > > > > | +---w input > > > > | | +---w v4ur:destination-address? inet:ipv4-address > > > > | | +---w v6ur:destination-address? inet:ipv6-address > > > > | +--ro output > > > > | ... > > > > +--rw description? string > > > > > > > > If client issued get operation to retrieve ribs from non-NMDA > device, rib instance created by routing protocols should be returned? > > > > Another associated question: If client issued get-config > operation from non-NMDA device, only user-controlled rib instance should = be > returned? > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > netmod mailing list > > netmod@ietf.org > > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/netmod > > > -- > Juergen Schoenwaelder Jacobs University Bremen gGmbH > Phone: +49 421 200 3587 Campus Ring 1 | 28759 Bremen | Germany > Fax: +49 421 200 3103 > _______________________________________________ > netconf mailing list > netconf@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/netconf > --000000000000658b5f058c639a5d Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable


=
On Fri, Jun 28, 2019 at 7:09 AM Fengc= hong (frank) <frank.fengch= ong@huawei.com> wrote:
Hi Rob,
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 I think IETF solution: migrate to NMDA is unrealistic. The co= st of migration to NMDA is too expensive, If the entire industry migrates t= o NMDA, the time will be long.
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 This will delay the deployment of the IETF model in the indus= try.
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 Anyway, even if vendor implements NMDA, the network manager/ = controller or client tools may not support NMDA client.
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 A non-NMDA client only support get/get-config, it still has n= o way to retrieve system-controlled data.



Although it would have = been possible to augment the existing <get> operation, it is much cle= aner
to create a new operation instead. (From standards and imple= mentation POV).

There is a significant amount of w= ork needed to support NMDA in a server.
This effort would be the = same whether <get> or <get-data> was used.
The protoc= ol work is the tip of the iceberg.=C2=A0 Updating all the instrumentation c= allbacks to
return operational values is the real work -- and exa= ctly the same no matter what protocol
solution is used. Client co= mplexity is mostly related to the new YANG library.

Starting over on a new solution would only take longer to deploy.


Andy


=C2=A0
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 Generation config false copy for IETF YANG model is not reaso= nable, because published IETF standard YANG should not be changed, moreover= , this is not friendly to the client or the server.
-----=E9=82=AE=E4=BB=B6=E5=8E=9F=E4=BB=B6-----
=E5=8F=91=E4=BB=B6=E4=BA=BA: Rob Wilton (rwilton) [mailto:rwilton@cisco.com]
=E5=8F=91=E9=80=81=E6=97=B6=E9=97=B4: 2019=E5=B9=B46=E6=9C=8828=E6=97=A5 17= :18
=E6=94=B6=E4=BB=B6=E4=BA=BA: Fengchong (frank) <frank.fengchong@huawei.com>;= Juergen Schoenwaelder <j.schoenwaelder@jacobs-university.de>
=E6=8A=84=E9=80=81: n= etconf@ietf.org; n= etmod@ietf.org; Zhangwei (SS) <zhangwei70@huawei.com>
=E4=B8=BB=E9=A2=98: RE: [netmod] pls clarify get operation

Hi Frank,

You can't just change definitions in RFCs.=C2=A0 It breaks all existing= clients/servers.=C2=A0 Besides, what you suggest doesn't really work (= path clashes between configuration and operational state), unless you retur= n two trees ... which starts to look extremely similar to the NMDA architec= ture ...

IETF has already explored this problem and there is already a published IET= F solution to the problem that you describe: Migrate to NMDA.=C2=A0 The NMD= A architecture has many other benefits as well (E.g. allows for templating,= inactive configuration, dynamic configuration, consistent OIR handling).
Thanks,
Rob


-----Original Message-----
From: Fengchong (frank) <frank.fengchong@huawei.com>
Sent: 28 June 2019 10:07
To: Juergen Schoenwaelder <j.schoenwaelder@jacobs-university.de>; = Rob Wilton (rwilton) <rwilton@cisco.com>
Cc: netconf@ietf.org<= /a>; netmod@ietf.org; Zhangwei (SS) <zhangwei70@huawei.com>
Subject: =E7=AD=94=E5=A4=8D: [netmod] pls clarify get operation

Should we change the definition of get operation? Like this, get operation = can retrieve all running operational data including running configuration, = system configuration.
Otherwise, we have no way to get the information of system-controlled data = according a NMDA-style YANG module(because has no config false copy ) unles= s we implement NMDA.
-----=E9=82=AE=E4=BB=B6=E5=8E=9F=E4=BB=B6-----
=E5=8F=91=E4=BB=B6=E4=BA=BA: Juergen Schoenwaelder [mailto:j.schoenwaelder@j= acobs-university.de]
=E5=8F=91=E9=80=81=E6=97=B6=E9=97=B4: 2019=E5=B9=B46=E6=9C=8828=E6=97=A5 16= :50
=E6=94=B6=E4=BB=B6=E4=BA=BA: Rob Wilton (rwilton) <rwilton@cisco.com>
=E6=8A=84=E9=80=81: Fengchong (frank) <frank.fengchong@huawei.com>; netconf@ietf.org; netmod@ietf.org; Zhangwe= i (SS) <zhang= wei70@huawei.com>
=E4=B8=BB=E9=A2=98: Re: [netmod] pls clarify get operation

Yes, both the NETCONF <get> operation and the RESTCONF GET on the uni= fied view of the underlying datastores have limitations and a solution in s= ituations where these limitations hurt is to move towards NMDA.

/js

On Fri, Jun 28, 2019 at 08:38:38AM +0000, Rob Wilton (rwilton) wrote:
> Hi Frank,
>
> Pre NMDA:
>
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0*=C2=A0 =C2=A0You have a the <running> datastore, al= ong with some others like <candidate> and <startup> that you ca= n ignore for the purposes of this discussion.
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0*=C2=A0 =C2=A0The <running> datastore can only conta= ins data for schema nodes that are marked as =E2=80=9Cconfig true=E2=80=9D = in YANG (i.e. =E2=80=9Crw=E2=80=9D in your tree output below).
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0*=C2=A0 =C2=A0The system may also have some operational st= ate data that is marked as =E2=80=9Cconfig false=E2=80=9D in YANG (i.e. =E2= =80=9Cro=E2=80=9D in your tree output below).
>
> The NETCONF <get-config> operation returns the contents of the &= lt;running> datastore.
> The NETCONF <get> operation returns the contents of the <runn= ing> datastore combined with all the operational state as well.=C2=A0 Fi= lters can be applied to return a subset of the data.
>
> Regarding your question about user created configuration vs system cre= ated configuration, it depends on whether the devices instantiates the conf= iguration in <running> or not.=C2=A0 If it does, then it would be ret= urned in <get> and <get-config> operations.=C2=A0 If it doesn= =E2=80=99t then it would not.=C2=A0 Different vendors/devices will likely i= mplement this in different ways.
>
> Generally, I think that <running> should only contain the config= uration explicitly configured by the operator=E2=80=99s systems.=C2=A0 But = this means that there isn=E2=80=99t a clean way to represent system created= configuration or applied configuration, unless you make a config false cop= y of every config true node in YANG.=C2=A0 This is approach that was taken = by the original IETF YANG models (e.g. RFC 7223) before they were supersede= d by NMDA, and also the OpenConfig YANG models (but using a different struc= ture =E2=80=93 which also struggles to cleanly represent system created con= figuration data).
>
> The NMDA architecture was written to solve this problem in a clean way= without requiring duplication in the YANG data models.
>
> Hopefully this helps clarify.
>
> Thanks,
> Rob
>
>
> From: netmod <netmod-bounces@ietf.org> On Behalf Of Fengchong (frank)
> Sent: 28 June 2019 04:29
> To: netconf@ietf= .org; netmod@ietf.= org
> Cc: Zhangwei (SS) <zhangwei70@huawei.com>
> Subject: [netmod] =E7=AD=94=E5=A4=8D: pls clarify get operation
>
> Hi all,
>
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 Pls clarify this question. I have been confused fo= r a long time.
>
> ________________________________
> =E5=8D=8E=E4=B8=BA=E6=8A=80=E6=9C=AF=E6=9C=89=E9=99=90=E5=85=AC=E5=8F= =B8 Huawei Technologies Co., Ltd.
> [Company_logo]
> =E4=B8=AA=E4=BA=BA=E7=AD=BE=E5=90=8D=EF=BC=9A=E5=86=AF=E5=86=B2
> =E6=89=8B=E3=80=80=E3=80=80=E6=9C=BA=EF=BC=9A13776612983
> =E7=94=B5=E5=AD=90=E9=82=AE=E4=BB=B6=EF=BC=9Afrank.fengchong@huawei.com<ma= ilto:frank.= fengchong@huawei.com>
> =E5=85=AC=E5=8F=B8=E7=BD=91=E5=9D=80=EF=BC=9Awww.huawei.com<http://www.= huawei.com>
> ________________________________
> =EF=BB=BF =E6=9C=AC=E9=82=AE=E4=BB=B6=E5=8F=8A=E5=85=B6=E9=99=84=E4=BB= =B6=E5=90=AB=E6=9C=89=E5=8D=8E=E4=B8=BA=E5=85=AC=E5=8F=B8=E7=9A=84=E4=BF=9D= =E5=AF=86=E4=BF=A1=E6=81=AF=EF=BC=8C=E4=BB=85=E9=99=90=E4=BA=8E=E5=8F=91=E9= =80=81=E7=BB=99=E4=B8=8A=E9=9D=A2=E5=9C=B0=E5=9D=80=E4=B8=AD=E5=88=97=E5=87= =BA=E7=9A=84=E4=B8=AA=E4=BA=BA=E6=88=96=E7=BE=A4=E7=BB=84=E3=80=82=E7=A6=81=
> =E6=AD=A2=E4=BB=BB=E4=BD=95=E5=85=B6=E4=BB=96=E4=BA=BA=E4=BB=A5=E4=BB= =BB=E4=BD=95=E5=BD=A2=E5=BC=8F=E4=BD=BF=E7=94=A8=EF=BC=88=E5=8C=85=E6=8B=AC= =E4=BD=86=E4=B8=8D=E9=99=90=E4=BA=8E=E5=85=A8=E9=83=A8=E6=88=96=E9=83=A8=E5= =88=86=E5=9C=B0=E6=B3=84=E9=9C=B2=E3=80=81=E5=A4=8D=E5=88=B6=E3=80=81=E6=88= =96=E6=95=A3=E5=8F=91=EF=BC=89=E6=9C=AC=E9=82=AE=E4=BB=B6=E4=B8=AD
> =E7=9A=84=E4=BF=A1=E6=81=AF=E3=80=82=E5=A6=82=E6=9E=9C=E6=82=A8=E9=94= =99=E6=94=B6=E4=BA=86=E6=9C=AC=E9=82=AE=E4=BB=B6=EF=BC=8C=E8=AF=B7=E6=82=A8= =E7=AB=8B=E5=8D=B3=E7=94=B5=E8=AF=9D=E6=88=96=E9=82=AE=E4=BB=B6=E9=80=9A=E7= =9F=A5=E5=8F=91=E4=BB=B6=E4=BA=BA=E5=B9=B6=E5=88=A0=E9=99=A4=E6=9C=AC=E9=82= =AE=E4=BB=B6=EF=BC=81
> This e-mail and its attachments contain confidential information from =
> HUAWEI, which is intended only for the person or entity whose address =
> is listed above. Any use of the information contained herein in any > way (including, but not limited to, total or partial disclosure,
> reproduction, or dissemination) by persons other than the intended
> recipient(s) is prohibited. If you receive this e-mail in error,
> please notify the sender by phone or email immediately and delete it!<= br> >
> =E5=8F=91=E4=BB=B6=E4=BA=BA: Fengchong (frank)
> =E5=8F=91=E9=80=81=E6=97=B6=E9=97=B4: 2019=E5=B9=B46=E6=9C=8827=E6=97= =A5 9:59
> =E6=94=B6=E4=BB=B6=E4=BA=BA: 'netconf@ietf.org' <netconf@ietf.org<mailto:netconf@ietf.org>>;
> netmod@ietf.org<mailto:netmod@ie= tf.org>
> =E6=8A=84=E9=80=81: Yangshouchuan
> <yang= shouchuan@huawei.com<mailto:yangshouchuan@huawei.com>>; Zhangwei
> (SS) <zh= angwei70@huawei.com<mailto:zhangwei70@huawei.com>>
> =E4=B8=BB=E9=A2=98: pls clarify get operation
>
> Hi all,
> In RFC6241, get operation is defined as:
> 7.7<https://tools.ietf.org/html/rfc6241#secti= on-7.7>.=C2=A0 <get>
>
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 Description:=C2=A0 Retrieve running configuration and dev= ice state
>
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0information.
> This description is too simply, so I think it should be clarified.
>
> The case is: a data node modelled by one yang can be configured by use= r, but also can be created/modified by system or other protocols. If client= issues get operation to retrieve this node,
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0The data is created/modified b= y system or other protocols SHOULD be returned?
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0For example:
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0Rib can be configured by user = and also can be created by routing protocols. In RFC 8349, the rib list is = defined as:
>
>
>
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0+--rw ribs
>
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 +--rw rib* [name]
>
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0+--rw name=C2=A0 =C2=A0= =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 string
>
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0+--rw address-family?= =C2=A0 =C2=A0identityref
>
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0+--ro default-rib?=C2= =A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 boolean {multiple-ribs}?
>
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0+--ro routes
>
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0|=C2=A0 +--ro route* >
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0|=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 = =C2=A0 ...
>
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0+---x active-route
>
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0|=C2=A0 +---w input
>
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0|=C2=A0 |=C2=A0 +---w v= 4ur:destination-address?=C2=A0 =C2=A0inet:ipv4-address
>
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0|=C2=A0 |=C2=A0 +---w v= 6ur:destination-address?=C2=A0 =C2=A0inet:ipv6-address
>
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0|=C2=A0 +--ro output >
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0|=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 = =C2=A0 ...
>
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0+--rw description?=C2= =A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 string
>
>
>
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 If client issued get operation to retrieve = ribs from non-NMDA device, rib instance created by routing protocols should= be returned?
>
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 Another associated question: If client issu= ed get-config operation from non-NMDA device, only user-controlled rib inst= ance should be returned?
>



> _______________________________________________
> netmod mailing list
> netmod@ietf.org
> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/netmod

--
Juergen Schoenwaelder=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0Jacobs Univer= sity Bremen gGmbH
Phone: +49 421 200 3587=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0Campus Ring 1 | 28= 759 Bremen | Germany
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--000000000000658b5f058c639a5d-- From nobody Fri Jun 28 08:24:34 2019 Return-Path: <0100016b9eb005f6-11af1cb0-f3ba-4ad6-9b49-88965e668f56-000000@amazonses.watsen.net> X-Original-To: netmod@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: netmod@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id B18BA12044A; Fri, 28 Jun 2019 08:24:28 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.897 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.897 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_NONE=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (1024-bit key) header.d=amazonses.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id U8Wp1MtO7_in; Fri, 28 Jun 2019 08:24:27 -0700 (PDT) Received: from a8-96.smtp-out.amazonses.com (a8-96.smtp-out.amazonses.com [54.240.8.96]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id D905112042B; Fri, 28 Jun 2019 08:24:25 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; q=dns/txt; c=relaxed/simple; s=6gbrjpgwjskckoa6a5zn6fwqkn67xbtw; d=amazonses.com; t=1561735464; h=From:Message-Id:Content-Type:Mime-Version:Subject:Date:In-Reply-To:Cc:To:References:Feedback-ID; bh=ROV6shBJGwiJ2fRIK2YgntD42UfCap761OLs7Hh4/kM=; b=DFFKAmS5BbVeJSvMvMmDcyTxrAI7ToG4RY6d5xNnkXgYyGufqBl7jqPZKI1IPx2D q9EUkpJ9VYfwmFE+DJIDEJ8uilArJiaX2lck6JB0e0HWO4p69WN1P1tK3RKpZAvawEP WGF9JDU3TVaq0sY+yV/oH81Sp59qE77GcTZp5EVo= From: Kent Watsen Message-ID: <0100016b9eb005f6-11af1cb0-f3ba-4ad6-9b49-88965e668f56-000000@email.amazonses.com> Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="Apple-Mail=_D008D752-5B94-4375-B5CB-7EC4BCA650F9" Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 12.4 \(3445.104.11\)) Date: Fri, 28 Jun 2019 15:24:24 +0000 In-Reply-To: <5756FB984666AD4BB8E1D63E2E3AA3D001ED63C8@dggemm513-mbx.china.huawei.com> Cc: "Rob Wilton (rwilton)" , Juergen Schoenwaelder , "netmod@ietf.org" , "Zhangwei (SS)" , Yangang , "netconf@ietf.org" To: "Fengchong (frank)" References: <5756FB984666AD4BB8E1D63E2E3AA3D001ED5E20@dggemm513-mbx.china.huawei.com> <20190628085014.ljxh73fcmiu6iqx7@anna.jacobs.jacobs-university.de> <5756FB984666AD4BB8E1D63E2E3AA3D001ED6082@dggemm513-mbx.china.huawei.com> <5756FB984666AD4BB8E1D63E2E3AA3D001ED63C8@dggemm513-mbx.china.huawei.com> X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.3445.104.11) X-SES-Outgoing: 2019.06.28-54.240.8.96 Feedback-ID: 1.us-east-1.DKmIRZFhhsBhtmFMNikgwZUWVrODEw9qVcPhqJEI2DA=:AmazonSES Archived-At: Subject: Re: [netmod] =?utf-8?b?562U5aSNOiAgcGxzIGNsYXJpZnkgZ2V0ICBvcGVyYXRp?= =?utf-8?q?on?= X-BeenThere: netmod@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: NETMOD WG list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 28 Jun 2019 15:24:32 -0000 --Apple-Mail=_D008D752-5B94-4375-B5CB-7EC4BCA650F9 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Hi Frank, > I think IETF solution: migrate to NMDA is unrealistic. The cost of = migration to NMDA is too expensive, If the entire industry migrates to = NMDA, the time will be long. Does Huawei wish to be a leader or a follower? If servers support = both, the clients will quickly adapt. As for myself, a server I'm = working on only supports NMDA. =20 > This will delay the deployment of the IETF model in the industry.=20= > Anyway, even if vendor implements NMDA, the network manager/ = controller or client tools may not support NMDA client.=20 > A non-NMDA client only support get/get-config, it still has no way = to retrieve system-controlled data. >=20 > Generation config false copy for IETF YANG model is not reasonable, = because published IETF standard YANG should not be changed, moreover, = this is not friendly to the client or the server. Some drafts already publish a "state" module in their Appendix and, when = they do, there is a completely standard non-NMDA IETF solution. I don't = know if this strategy is being followed universally but, if not, then I = don't believe the IETF would object at all to the publication of drafts = for missing state models in drafts that only assumed NMDA. Your message seems to wish for some automatic universal support in the = protocols for converting NMDA models to non-NMDA models. Whilst that = would be possible, and you're welcome to submit a draft for it, it seems = that the solution would entail protocol extensions that non-NMDA = clients/servers would also have to be updated to support, at which point = I'd argue that they would be better off supporting NMDA, which provides = a superior solution. Kent // contributor --Apple-Mail=_D008D752-5B94-4375-B5CB-7EC4BCA650F9 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/html; charset=us-ascii

Hi Frank,

   I think IETF solution: migrate to NMDA is = unrealistic. The cost of migration to NMDA is too expensive, If the = entire industry migrates to NMDA, the time will be long.

Does = Huawei wish to be a leader or a follower?   If servers support = both, the clients will quickly adapt.  As for myself, a server I'm = working on only supports NMDA.  


   This will = delay the deployment of the IETF model in the industry.
=    Anyway, even if vendor implements NMDA, the network = manager/ controller or client tools may not support NMDA client.
   A non-NMDA client only support = get/get-config, it still has no way to retrieve system-controlled = data.

   Generation config = false copy for IETF YANG model is not reasonable, because published IETF = standard YANG should not be changed, moreover, this is not friendly to = the client or the server.

Some drafts already publish a "state" = module in their Appendix and, when they do, there is a completely = standard non-NMDA IETF solution.  I don't know if this strategy is = being followed universally but, if not, then I don't believe the IETF = would object at all to the publication of drafts for missing state = models in drafts that only assumed NMDA.

Your message seems to wish for some = automatic universal support in the protocols for converting NMDA models = to non-NMDA models.  Whilst that would be possible, and you're = welcome to submit a draft for it, it seems that the solution would = entail protocol extensions that non-NMDA clients/servers would also have = to be updated to support, at which point I'd argue that they would be = better off supporting NMDA, which provides a superior = solution.

Kent = // contributor

= --Apple-Mail=_D008D752-5B94-4375-B5CB-7EC4BCA650F9-- From nobody Fri Jun 28 14:36:19 2019 Return-Path: <0100016ba0047342-3fad2bd1-f95e-4bad-a6bd-5613da340b6a-000000@amazonses.watsen.net> X-Original-To: netmod@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: netmod@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3586B120937; Fri, 28 Jun 2019 14:36:18 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.896 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.896 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_NONE=0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (1024-bit key) header.d=amazonses.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id uNEeAOsPD5Ub; Fri, 28 Jun 2019 14:36:16 -0700 (PDT) Received: from a8-83.smtp-out.amazonses.com (a8-83.smtp-out.amazonses.com [54.240.8.83]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 52C46120976; Fri, 28 Jun 2019 14:36:16 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; q=dns/txt; c=relaxed/simple; s=6gbrjpgwjskckoa6a5zn6fwqkn67xbtw; d=amazonses.com; t=1561757774; h=From:Content-Type:Mime-Version:Subject:Message-Id:Date:Cc:To:Feedback-ID; bh=zC0kRszKHpU+qzgKMHov/MRSEOaukJTow0T1u0wn2Ms=; b=XNpXuOLZC8wvPTutKYKtuYxaY79kZPYl9d93hZIPwa+yMNy2IXGFceBkNnBxSDGW Im3RGSQvlzAAG0HHTBHBqeTYGhb8atHZCpLfM9PDnfrGn06VZ0MQfou4w/BSjyGfC/I nLZPoONr5PuEsdnbx69pYc4qIQDTkzyjzejB8JPs= From: Kent Watsen Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="Apple-Mail=_D0358479-5951-48AC-9C70-53CDADDEE504" Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 12.4 \(3445.104.11\)) Message-ID: <0100016ba0047342-3fad2bd1-f95e-4bad-a6bd-5613da340b6a-000000@email.amazonses.com> Date: Fri, 28 Jun 2019 21:36:14 +0000 Cc: "netmod-chairs@ietf.org" To: "netmod@ietf.org" X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.3445.104.11) X-SES-Outgoing: 2019.06.28-54.240.8.83 Feedback-ID: 1.us-east-1.DKmIRZFhhsBhtmFMNikgwZUWVrODEw9qVcPhqJEI2DA=:AmazonSES Archived-At: Subject: [netmod] IETF 105 Presentation Requests X-BeenThere: netmod@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: NETMOD WG list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 28 Jun 2019 21:36:18 -0000 --Apple-Mail=_D0358479-5951-48AC-9C70-53CDADDEE504 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Dear WG, The preliminary IETF 105 Agenda has been posted [1]. NETMOD has two = back-to-back sessions Monday afternoon, a total of 4 hours with a = 20-minute beverage and snack break in the middle. If you are interested in presenting to the WG, please send your = presentation requests to the "netmod-chairs" alias (CC-ed) with the = following information, for each presentation request, if more than one: - name of the drafts (if any) - name of presentation (usually the title of the draft) - name of the presenters - desired time request in minutes. [1] https://datatracker.ietf.org/meeting/105/agenda/ = PS: *please* respond to *this* thread (removing the "netmod" alias) so = that it's easier for the chairs to track all the requests. Thanks! Kent (and Lou and Joel) --Apple-Mail=_D0358479-5951-48AC-9C70-53CDADDEE504 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/html; charset=us-ascii
Dear WG,

The preliminary IETF 105 Agenda has = been posted [1].  NETMOD has two back-to-back sessions Monday = afternoon, a total of 4 hours with a 20-minute beverage and snack break = in the middle.

If you are interested = in presenting to the WG, please send your presentation requests to the = "netmod-chairs" alias (CC-ed) with the following information, for each = presentation request, if more than one:

  - name of the drafts (if = any)
  - name of presentation (usually the = title of the draft)
  - name of the = presenters
  - desired time request in = minutes.

[1] https://datatracker.ietf.org/meeting/105/agenda/


PS: *please* respond to = *this* thread (removing the "netmod" alias) so that it's easier for the = chairs to track all the requests.

Thanks!
Kent (and Lou and Joel)



= --Apple-Mail=_D0358479-5951-48AC-9C70-53CDADDEE504-- From nobody Fri Jun 28 15:59:36 2019 Return-Path: X-Original-To: netmod@ietf.org Delivered-To: netmod@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from ietfa.amsl.com (localhost [IPv6:::1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0C1BD120956; Fri, 28 Jun 2019 15:57:52 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: "\"IETF Secretariat\"" To: , Cc: ibagdona@gmail.com, netmod@ietf.org X-Test-IDTracker: no X-IETF-IDTracker: 6.98.1 Auto-Submitted: auto-generated Precedence: bulk Message-ID: <156176267203.11015.16765367167318007187.idtracker@ietfa.amsl.com> Date: Fri, 28 Jun 2019 15:57:52 -0700 Archived-At: Subject: [netmod] netmod - Requested sessions have been scheduled for IETF 105 X-BeenThere: netmod@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 List-Id: NETMOD WG list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 28 Jun 2019 22:57:59 -0000 Dear Lou Berger, The session(s) that you have requested have been scheduled. Below is the scheduled session information followed by the original request. netmod Session 1 (2:00 requested) Monday, 22 July 2019, Afternoon Session I 1330-1530 Room Name: Viger size: 200 --------------------------------------------- netmod Session 2 (2:00 requested) Monday, 22 July 2019, Afternoon Session II 1550-1750 Room Name: Duluth size: 150 --------------------------------------------- iCalendar: https://datatracker.ietf.org/meeting/105/sessions/netmod.ics Request Information: --------------------------------------------------------- Working Group Name: Network Modeling Area Name: Operations and Management Area Session Requester: Lou Berger Number of Sessions: 2 Length of Session(s): 2 Hours, 2 Hours Number of Attendees: 100 Conflicts to Avoid: First Priority: netconf Second Priority: rtgwg i2rs teas Third Priority: saag People who must be present: Lou Berger Joel Jaeggli Kent Watsen Ignas Bagdonas Resources Requested: Special Requests: --------------------------------------------------------- From nobody Sat Jun 29 00:22:13 2019 Return-Path: X-Original-To: netmod@ietf.org Delivered-To: netmod@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from ietfa.amsl.com (localhost [IPv6:::1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id EC6F21209AD; Sat, 29 Jun 2019 00:22:04 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: internet-drafts@ietf.org To: Cc: netmod@ietf.org X-Test-IDTracker: no X-IETF-IDTracker: 6.98.1 Auto-Submitted: auto-generated Precedence: bulk Reply-To: netmod@ietf.org Message-ID: <156179292482.12682.9912110568154306295@ietfa.amsl.com> Date: Sat, 29 Jun 2019 00:22:04 -0700 Archived-At: Subject: [netmod] I-D Action: draft-ietf-netmod-factory-default-02.txt X-BeenThere: netmod@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 List-Id: NETMOD WG list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sat, 29 Jun 2019 07:22:05 -0000 A New Internet-Draft is available from the on-line Internet-Drafts directories. This draft is a work item of the Network Modeling WG of the IETF. Title : Factory Default Setting Authors : Qin Wu Balazs Lengyel Ye Niu Filename : draft-ietf-netmod-factory-default-02.txt Pages : 11 Date : 2019-06-29 Abstract: This document defines a method to reset a server to its factory- default content. The reset operation may be used e.g. during initial zero-touch configuration or when the existing configuration has major errors, so re-starting the configuration process from scratch is the best option. A new factory-reset RPC is defined. Several methods of documenting the factory-default content are specified. Optionally a new "factory-default" read-only datastore is defined, that contains the data that will be copied over to the running datastore at reset. The IETF datatracker status page for this draft is: https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-netmod-factory-default/ There are also htmlized versions available at: https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-netmod-factory-default-02 https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/html/draft-ietf-netmod-factory-default-02 A diff from the previous version is available at: https://www.ietf.org/rfcdiff?url2=draft-ietf-netmod-factory-default-02 Please note that it may take a couple of minutes from the time of submission until the htmlized version and diff are available at tools.ietf.org. Internet-Drafts are also available by anonymous FTP at: ftp://ftp.ietf.org/internet-drafts/ From nobody Sat Jun 29 01:05:30 2019 Return-Path: X-Original-To: netmod@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: netmod@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id DD93E120142; Sat, 29 Jun 2019 01:05:21 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -4.2 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-4.2 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-2.3, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id sN2pfCqSboY1; Sat, 29 Jun 2019 01:05:18 -0700 (PDT) Received: from huawei.com (lhrrgout.huawei.com [185.176.76.210]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 027E5120033; Sat, 29 Jun 2019 01:05:18 -0700 (PDT) Received: from lhreml706-cah.china.huawei.com (unknown [172.18.7.107]) by Forcepoint Email with ESMTP id C95A057C775FCF480282; Sat, 29 Jun 2019 09:05:15 +0100 (IST) Received: from lhreml711-chm.china.huawei.com (10.201.108.62) by lhreml706-cah.china.huawei.com (10.201.108.47) with Microsoft SMTP Server (TLS) id 14.3.408.0; Sat, 29 Jun 2019 09:05:14 +0100 Received: from lhreml711-chm.china.huawei.com (10.201.108.62) by lhreml711-chm.china.huawei.com (10.201.108.62) with Microsoft SMTP Server (version=TLS1_2, cipher=TLS_ECDHE_RSA_WITH_AES_128_GCM_SHA256) id 15.1.1713.5; Sat, 29 Jun 2019 09:05:14 +0100 Received: from NKGEML414-HUB.china.huawei.com (10.98.56.75) by lhreml711-chm.china.huawei.com (10.201.108.62) with Microsoft SMTP Server (version=TLS1_0, cipher=TLS_ECDHE_RSA_WITH_AES_128_CBC_SHA) id 15.1.1713.5 via Frontend Transport; Sat, 29 Jun 2019 09:05:13 +0100 Received: from NKGEML513-MBX.china.huawei.com ([169.254.1.66]) by nkgeml414-hub.china.huawei.com ([10.98.56.75]) with mapi id 14.03.0415.000; Sat, 29 Jun 2019 16:05:05 +0800 From: Qin Wu To: Andy Bierman , "Fengchong (frank)" CC: "netmod@ietf.org" , "Zhangwei (SS)" , Yangang , "netconf@ietf.org" Thread-Topic: [netmod] [netconf] RE: pls clarify get operation Thread-Index: AdUuUEFywS+0G73ZTDqYU19dt7I5WA== Date: Sat, 29 Jun 2019 08:05:05 +0000 Message-ID: Accept-Language: zh-CN, en-US Content-Language: zh-CN X-MS-Has-Attach: yes X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-originating-ip: [10.134.31.203] Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="_004_B8F9A780D330094D99AF023C5877DABAA49BA669nkgeml513mbxchi_" MIME-Version: 1.0 X-CFilter-Loop: Reflected Archived-At: Subject: Re: [netmod] [netconf] RE: pls clarify get operation X-BeenThere: netmod@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: NETMOD WG list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sat, 29 Jun 2019 08:05:22 -0000 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(256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id A4B28120033 for ; Sat, 29 Jun 2019 03:05:38 -0700 (PDT) Received: from LHREML712-CAH.china.huawei.com (unknown [172.18.7.106]) by Forcepoint Email with ESMTP id 16A5467086AB5139500C for ; Sat, 29 Jun 2019 11:05:37 +0100 (IST) Received: from DGGEMI424-HUB.china.huawei.com (10.1.199.153) by LHREML712-CAH.china.huawei.com (10.201.108.35) with Microsoft SMTP Server (TLS) id 14.3.408.0; Sat, 29 Jun 2019 11:05:36 +0100 Received: from DGGEMI522-MBS.china.huawei.com ([169.254.8.175]) by DGGEMI424-HUB.china.huawei.com ([10.1.199.153]) with mapi id 14.03.0399.000; Sat, 29 Jun 2019 18:05:30 +0800 From: "taoran (F)" To: "netmod@ietf.org" Thread-Topic: I-D Action: draft-wu-netmod-base-notification-nmda-03.txt Thread-Index: AdUuYQj/cbo2NK75Q4274QF1oQkzzg== Date: Sat, 29 Jun 2019 10:05:30 +0000 Message-ID: <9A819AE7BFA8104F8CDA9A55CAFA538C497F57@dggemi522-mbs.china.huawei.com> Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: zh-CN X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-originating-ip: [10.165.66.189] Content-Type: text/plain; charset="gb2312" Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-CFilter-Loop: Reflected Archived-At: Subject: Re: [netmod] I-D Action: draft-wu-netmod-base-notification-nmda-03.txt X-BeenThere: netmod@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: NETMOD WG list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sat, 29 Jun 2019 10:05:42 -0000 SGksIGZvbGtzOg0Kdi0wMyBoYXMgYmVlbiBwb3N0ZWQNCmh0dHBzOi8vZGF0YXRyYWNrZXIuaWV0 Zi5vcmcvZG9jL2h0bWwvZHJhZnQtd3UtbmV0bW9kLWJhc2Utbm90aWZpY2F0aW9uLW5tZGEtMDMN ClRoZSBtYWluIGNoYW5nZXMgaW5jbHVkZToNCiAgIG8gIENoYW5nZSBub3RpZmljYXRpb24gbmFt ZSBpbnRvIGludGVudC1jb25maWd1cmF0aW9uIHVwZGF0ZS4NCiAgIG8gIENoYW5nZSB0aXRsZSBp bnRvIE5NREEgQmFzZSBldmVudCBmb3IgaW50ZW50IGJhc2VkIGNvbmZpZ3VyYXRpb24NCiAgICAg IHVwZGF0ZS4NCiAgIG8gIENsYXJpZnkgdGhlIHVzYWdlIG9mIE5NREEgYmFzZSBldmVudCBhbmQg 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cm5ldC1EcmFmdHMgYXJlIGFsc28gYXZhaWxhYmxlIGJ5IGFub255bW91cyBGVFAgYXQ6DQpmdHA6 Ly9mdHAuaWV0Zi5vcmcvaW50ZXJuZXQtZHJhZnRzLw0KDQpfX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19f X19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fXw0KSS1ELUFubm91bmNlIG1haWxpbmcgbGlzdA0KSS1E LUFubm91bmNlQGlldGYub3JnDQpodHRwczovL3d3dy5pZXRmLm9yZy9tYWlsbWFuL2xpc3RpbmZv L2ktZC1hbm5vdW5jZQ0KSW50ZXJuZXQtRHJhZnQgZGlyZWN0b3JpZXM6IGh0dHA6Ly93d3cuaWV0 Zi5vcmcvc2hhZG93Lmh0bWwgb3IgZnRwOi8vZnRwLmlldGYub3JnL2lldGYvMXNoYWRvdy1zaXRl cy50eHQNCg== From nobody Sat Jun 29 05:04:04 2019 Return-Path: <0100016ba31ec8b0-8a5a2b03-8d83-4bab-9084-5dcba3d2fda6-000000@amazonses.watsen.net> X-Original-To: netmod@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: netmod@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id C4476120186; Sat, 29 Jun 2019 05:03:55 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.898 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.898 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_NONE=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (1024-bit key) header.d=amazonses.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id NmnjdfjNhD1e; Sat, 29 Jun 2019 05:03:54 -0700 (PDT) Received: from a8-96.smtp-out.amazonses.com (a8-96.smtp-out.amazonses.com [54.240.8.96]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id AFA6212009C; Sat, 29 Jun 2019 05:03:53 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; q=dns/txt; c=relaxed/simple; s=6gbrjpgwjskckoa6a5zn6fwqkn67xbtw; d=amazonses.com; t=1561809832; h=Content-Type:Mime-Version:Subject:From:In-Reply-To:Date:Cc:Content-Transfer-Encoding:Message-Id:References:To:Feedback-ID; bh=z6hpuqjiU4nwq5XrBzN+zH6dB31FUH9wMzqVOYDjqtE=; b=h5hZ3KszTr2xoTO14/441ZbXG62A/uga2/cUj4jMzWV0PHZDdZ8rh9cKTiu5SzCo IP4+ZJVjsjzIe5ToPoL5aTA3/H8tPHVgKbj2BEbXSJP3cfW+aPjF9r2wVYQkkA2N383 19TpbfElL07JdfxiE91MRIl/uw+5RjEqqz51qGcQ= Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Mime-Version: 1.0 (1.0) From: Kent Watsen X-Mailer: iPhone Mail (16F203) In-Reply-To: <0100016b9eb005f6-11af1cb0-f3ba-4ad6-9b49-88965e668f56-000000@email.amazonses.com> Date: Sat, 29 Jun 2019 12:03:52 +0000 Cc: "netmod@ietf.org" , "Zhangwei (SS)" , Yangang , "netconf@ietf.org" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Message-ID: <0100016ba31ec8b0-8a5a2b03-8d83-4bab-9084-5dcba3d2fda6-000000@email.amazonses.com> References: <5756FB984666AD4BB8E1D63E2E3AA3D001ED5E20@dggemm513-mbx.china.huawei.com> <20190628085014.ljxh73fcmiu6iqx7@anna.jacobs.jacobs-university.de> <5756FB984666AD4BB8E1D63E2E3AA3D001ED6082@dggemm513-mbx.china.huawei.com> <5756FB984666AD4BB8E1D63E2E3AA3D001ED63C8@dggemm513-mbx.china.huawei.com> <0100016b9eb005f6-11af1cb0-f3ba-4ad6-9b49-88965e668f56-000000@email.amazonses.com> To: "Fengchong (frank)" X-SES-Outgoing: 2019.06.29-54.240.8.96 Feedback-ID: 1.us-east-1.DKmIRZFhhsBhtmFMNikgwZUWVrODEw9qVcPhqJEI2DA=:AmazonSES Archived-At: Subject: Re: [netmod] =?utf-8?b?562U5aSNOiAgcGxzIGNsYXJpZnkgZ2V0ICBvcGVyYXRp?= =?utf-8?q?on?= X-BeenThere: netmod@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: NETMOD WG list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sat, 29 Jun 2019 12:03:56 -0000 An unsolicited follow up to my earlier message.=20 I didn=E2=80=99t mean to single out any particular company, rather then tryi= ng to encourage all companies to make the bold business decision to embrace N= MDA. The statement was only intended to be one of encouragement.=20 Another clarification, the server I=E2=80=99m working on is natively NMDA. I= have a placeholder for an adaptation layer to support non-NMDA clients, but= won=E2=80=99t implement it unless requested. I realize that only supportin= g NMDA is not officially sanctioned yet but, being a greenfield project with= out legacy clients, I=E2=80=99m hoping it will be okay from a go-to-market p= erspective.=20 Kent // contributor=20 From nobody Sat Jun 29 05:22:01 2019 Return-Path: <0100016ba32f36f9-fbbee6ca-eee0-4735-a446-067bf59ed125-000000@amazonses.watsen.net> X-Original-To: netmod@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: netmod@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5429D120108; Sat, 29 Jun 2019 05:21:52 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.896 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.896 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, MIME_QP_LONG_LINE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_NONE=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (1024-bit key) header.d=amazonses.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id dqQbLsVTATDu; Sat, 29 Jun 2019 05:21:50 -0700 (PDT) Received: from a8-83.smtp-out.amazonses.com (a8-83.smtp-out.amazonses.com [54.240.8.83]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 9666812010E; Sat, 29 Jun 2019 05:21:50 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; q=dns/txt; c=relaxed/simple; s=6gbrjpgwjskckoa6a5zn6fwqkn67xbtw; d=amazonses.com; t=1561810909; h=Content-Type:Mime-Version:Subject:From:In-Reply-To:Date:Cc:Content-Transfer-Encoding:Message-Id:References:To:Feedback-ID; bh=lT9oGS1gdEVDyqrIp6idqGfojFYeY/yUogokmJFB8ic=; b=dX8GaaVOpLPoY+TMwNbqSuhgsurdLcVlxR8baqL/WQ6i8tA4dhb4bgSmolNWyD72 A6yIsfjumrxYWI/MbHXi9y2cWT9ictw2wAkWcepFWXM8mEndjSHY5+uVAihRisbzmaG RVy+fgWXEBywfnR6aEmgQAvX5T5SvV1bAOzF6d6s= Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=Apple-Mail-311C214D-F3F0-485A-8E5B-3478E76D942E Mime-Version: 1.0 (1.0) From: Kent Watsen X-Mailer: iPhone Mail (16F203) In-Reply-To: Date: Sat, 29 Jun 2019 12:21:48 +0000 Cc: Andy Bierman , "Fengchong (frank)" , "Zhangwei (SS)" , "netconf@ietf.org" , "netmod@ietf.org" , Yangang Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Message-ID: <0100016ba32f36f9-fbbee6ca-eee0-4735-a446-067bf59ed125-000000@email.amazonses.com> References: To: Qin Wu X-SES-Outgoing: 2019.06.29-54.240.8.83 Feedback-ID: 1.us-east-1.DKmIRZFhhsBhtmFMNikgwZUWVrODEw9qVcPhqJEI2DA=:AmazonSES Archived-At: Subject: Re: [netmod] [netconf] RE: pls clarify get operation X-BeenThere: netmod@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: NETMOD WG list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sat, 29 Jun 2019 12:21:52 -0000 --Apple-Mail-311C214D-F3F0-485A-8E5B-3478E76D942E Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hi Qin, > If my understanding is correct, Frank=E2=80=99s intention is not proposed t= o fall back to single datastore, split tree. His concern is how Does the non= -NMDA client talk with NMDA compliant devices, suppose large amount of devic= es support NMDA. Using the original non-NMDA protocols, assuming the servers support both NMD= A and non-NMDA. > Does the device need to support both NMDA model and non-NMDA model? Yes, assuming a heterogeneous mix of NMDA and non-NMDA servers.=20 > Is this common case or corner case in real deployment senario. While the industry is transitioning to NMDA, it is an expected case. At som= e point, the IETF will obsolete non-NMDA support. > suggestions or guidelines defined in NMDA architecture and NMDA guideline(= /rfc8407#section-4.23.3) seem to only assume NMDA client only talks with NMD= A server, non-NMDA client only talks with non-NMDA server. True, but there=E2=80=99s no statement that a client or server cannot be bot= h. Note also that the NC/RC-NMDA RFCs explain how clients can discover if a= server supports NMDA. The intention is that the client would first try to u= se NMDA and, if not supported, fallback to non-NMDA.=20 Kent // contributor=20= --Apple-Mail-311C214D-F3F0-485A-8E5B-3478E76D942E Content-Type: text/html; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hi Qin,


If my understanding is correct, Frank=E2=80=99s i= ntention is not proposed to fall back to single datastore, split tree. His c= oncern is how Does the non-NMDA client talk with NMDA compliant devices, suppose large amount of devices su= pport NMDA.


Using the= original non-NMDA protocols, assuming the servers support both NMDA and non= -NMDA.

Does the device need to s= upport both NMDA model and non-NMDA model?


Yes, assuming a heterogeneous mix of NMDA and non-NMDA= servers. 

Is t= his common case or corner case in real deployment senario.

<= /div>

While the industry is transitioning to= NMDA, it is an expected case.  At some point, the IETF will obsolete n= on-NMDA support.

suggestions or guideline= s defined in NMDA architecture and NMDA guideline(/rfc8407#section-4.23.3) s= eem to only assume NMDA client only talks with NMDA server, non-NMDA client only talks with non-NMDA server.


True, but there=E2=80=99s no statement t= hat a client or server cannot be both.  Note also that the NC/RC-NMDA R= FCs explain how clients can discover if a server supports NMDA.  The in= tention is that the client would first try to use NMDA and, if not supported= , fallback to non-NMDA. 

Kent // contributor 
= --Apple-Mail-311C214D-F3F0-485A-8E5B-3478E76D942E-- From nobody Sat Jun 29 05:43:49 2019 Return-Path: X-Original-To: netmod@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: netmod@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id F03CF120108; Sat, 29 Jun 2019 05:43:45 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.898 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.898 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_NONE=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 4OmklsreclOi; Sat, 29 Jun 2019 05:43:43 -0700 (PDT) Received: from atlas5.jacobs-university.de (atlas5.jacobs-university.de [212.201.44.20]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ADH-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 5D3C8120096; Sat, 29 Jun 2019 05:43:43 -0700 (PDT) Received: from localhost (demetrius5.irc-it.jacobs-university.de [10.70.0.222]) by atlas5.jacobs-university.de (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4C7E260; Sat, 29 Jun 2019 14:43:41 +0200 (CEST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at jacobs-university.de Received: from atlas5.jacobs-university.de ([10.70.0.198]) by localhost (demetrius5.jacobs-university.de [10.70.0.222]) (amavisd-new, port 10032) with ESMTP id SZ7la7X2i2Bc; Sat, 29 Jun 2019 14:43:41 +0200 (CEST) Received: from hermes.jacobs-university.de (hermes.jacobs-university.de [212.201.44.23]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (Client CN "hermes.jacobs-university.de", Issuer "DFN-Verein Global Issuing CA" (verified OK)) by atlas5.jacobs-university.de (Postfix) with ESMTPS; Sat, 29 Jun 2019 14:43:41 +0200 (CEST) Received: from localhost (demetrius5.irc-it.jacobs-university.de [10.70.0.222]) by hermes.jacobs-university.de (Postfix) with ESMTP id 283DB20128; Sat, 29 Jun 2019 14:43:41 +0200 (CEST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at jacobs-university.de Received: from hermes.jacobs-university.de ([212.201.44.23]) by localhost (demetrius5.jacobs-university.de [10.70.0.222]) (amavisd-new, port 10028) with ESMTP id zVDkpbD1Lwzz; Sat, 29 Jun 2019 14:43:40 +0200 (CEST) Received: from exchange.jacobs-university.de (sxchmb04.jacobs.jacobs-university.de [10.70.0.156]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (Client CN "exchange.jacobs-university.de", Issuer "DFN-Verein Global Issuing CA" (verified OK)) by hermes.jacobs-university.de (Postfix) with ESMTPS id BFA4420126; Sat, 29 Jun 2019 14:43:40 +0200 (CEST) Received: from anna.localdomain (10.50.218.117) by sxchmb03.jacobs.jacobs-university.de (10.70.0.155) with Microsoft SMTP Server (version=TLS1_2, cipher=TLS_ECDHE_RSA_WITH_AES_256_GCM_SHA384) id 15.1.1713.5; Sat, 29 Jun 2019 14:43:39 +0200 Received: by anna.localdomain (Postfix, from userid 501) id 886B0300A8F1BD; Sat, 29 Jun 2019 14:43:39 +0200 (CEST) Date: Sat, 29 Jun 2019 14:43:39 +0200 From: Juergen Schoenwaelder To: Kent Watsen CC: Qin Wu , "netmod@ietf.org" , "Zhangwei (SS)" , Yangang , "netconf@ietf.org" Message-ID: <20190629124339.uvpratkwuvqrqmh5@anna.jacobs.jacobs-university.de> Reply-To: Juergen Schoenwaelder Mail-Followup-To: Kent Watsen , Qin Wu , "netmod@ietf.org" , "Zhangwei (SS)" , Yangang , "netconf@ietf.org" References: <0100016ba32f36f9-fbbee6ca-eee0-4735-a446-067bf59ed125-000000@email.amazonses.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <0100016ba32f36f9-fbbee6ca-eee0-4735-a446-067bf59ed125-000000@email.amazonses.com> User-Agent: NeoMutt/20180716 X-ClientProxiedBy: SXCHMB03.jacobs.jacobs-university.de (10.70.0.155) To sxchmb03.jacobs.jacobs-university.de (10.70.0.155) X-Clacks-Overhead: GNU Terry Pratchett Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Archived-At: Subject: Re: [netmod] [netconf] RE: pls clarify get operation X-BeenThere: netmod@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: NETMOD WG list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sat, 29 Jun 2019 12:43:46 -0000 A server that has a reason to support NMDA (because, for example, applied config can differ from running config) has to provide a 'cooked view' towards non-NMDA clients that is not representing the entire truth and hence may cause clients to draw wrong conclusions. Perhaps there is a business case to cheat non-NMDA clients but for serious network operations, one would hope that the transition towards NMDA is ideally short so that clients can work with robust data. /js On Sat, Jun 29, 2019 at 12:21:48PM +0000, Kent Watsen wrote: > Hi Qin, >=20 > > If my understanding is correct, Frank=E2=80=99s intention is not prop= osed to fall back to single datastore, split tree. His concern is how Doe= s the non-NMDA client talk with NMDA compliant devices, suppose large amo= unt of devices support NMDA. >=20 > Using the original non-NMDA protocols, assuming the servers support bot= h NMDA and non-NMDA. >=20 > > Does the device need to support both NMDA model and non-NMDA model? >=20 > Yes, assuming a heterogeneous mix of NMDA and non-NMDA servers.=20 >=20 > > Is this common case or corner case in real deployment senario. >=20 > While the industry is transitioning to NMDA, it is an expected case. A= t some point, the IETF will obsolete non-NMDA support. >=20 > > suggestions or guidelines defined in NMDA architecture and NMDA guide= line(/rfc8407#section-4.23.3) seem to only assume NMDA client only talks = with NMDA server, non-NMDA client only talks with non-NMDA server. >=20 > True, but there=E2=80=99s no statement that a client or server cannot b= e both. Note also that the NC/RC-NMDA RFCs explain how clients can disco= ver if a server supports NMDA. The intention is that the client would fi= rst try to use NMDA and, if not supported, fallback to non-NMDA.=20 >=20 > Kent // contributor=20 > _______________________________________________ > netconf mailing list > netconf@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/netconf --=20 Juergen Schoenwaelder Jacobs University Bremen gGmbH Phone: +49 421 200 3587 Campus Ring 1 | 28759 Bremen | Germany Fax: +49 421 200 3103