From nobody Mon Jul 1 10:34:21 2019 Return-Path: X-Original-To: netmod@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: netmod@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id D02FE120164 for ; Mon, 1 Jul 2019 10:34:19 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -4.298 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-4.298 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-2.3, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_NONE=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (1024-bit key) header.d=cesnet.cz Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id hjGcr1LlmMMb for ; Mon, 1 Jul 2019 10:34:17 -0700 (PDT) Received: from office2.cesnet.cz (office2.cesnet.cz [195.113.144.244]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 80F5D120672 for ; Mon, 1 Jul 2019 10:34:16 -0700 (PDT) Received: from localhost (unknown [IPv6:2001:718:1:2c:b88f:a570:7aec:4192]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by office2.cesnet.cz (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 819AD40006A; Mon, 1 Jul 2019 19:34:01 +0200 (CEST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=cesnet.cz; s=office2; t=1562002450; bh=G6LJxix20e9FuBJ72EQp0z40xYFDm/6JDtmmM8QWqO4=; h=From:To:Cc:Subject:Date; b=VqjcmVnoBidpFzZEbKnWNb5jv/mkr44Hd7av85iKmdjd+m7XSBO4uHAXmhTkt4UNB Brl3rRliWasTemjmW53kYRSGAXwV/+dW5coN0OY9thiYxBpl1XxmblJoaBZARqZvkK RggRMgVUs6wOg4Ngtb1SOQOK3ubIpei4hs+MgqPo= From: =?iso-8859-1?Q?Jan_Kundr=E1t?= To: Date: Mon, 01 Jul 2019 19:34:01 +0200 MIME-Version: 1.0 Message-ID: <8bcdad12-cec1-47b2-b8ad-bb8ab6d6783e@cesnet.cz> Organization: CESNET User-Agent: Trojita/v0.7-402-g68ee77c9; Qt/5.13.0; xcb; Linux; Gentoo Base System release 2.4.1 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Archived-At: Subject: [netmod] draft-ietf-netmod-geo-location-01: an optional location info X-BeenThere: netmod@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: NETMOD WG list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 01 Jul 2019 17:34:20 -0000 Hi, I'm augmenting the ietf-network and ietf-network-topology from RFC 8345,=20 trying to add geolocation information to the network nodes. I found your=20 draft (thanks for it!), draft-ietf-netmod-geo-location-01. What I am=20 struggling with is adding the geolocation as an *optional* element. When I try this YANG construct: augment "/nw:networks/nw:network/nw:node" { when "../nw:network-types/my-topo:topology-type"; description "Optical elements within a network"; uses geo:geo-location; } ...then my YANG instance data validator, libyang, complains when the=20 location is missing: err : Mandatory choice "location" missing a case branch.=20 (/ietf-network:networks/network[network-id=3D'...']/node[node-id=3D'...']/my-= topo:location/geo-location) I can do the augmentation with one more container (a presence one) like=20 this: augment "/nw:networks/nw:network/nw:node" { when "../nw:network-types/my-topo:topology-type"; description "Optical elements within a network"; container location { presence true; uses geo:geo-location; } =20 } The resulting data then contain an extra level of nesting. I think that=20 this is suboptimal. I have two questions: - Is that perhaps a bug in libyang? - If libyang is correct, is there a way of making the location info=20 optional without that one more level of nesting? Also, the example does not work as-is because it's importing the module=20 using a wrong name. Here's a tiny patch: index 7bd8622c..088621a1 100644 ---=20 a/experimental/ietf-extracted-YANG-modules/ietf-uses-geo-location@2019-02-02.= yang +++=20 b/experimental/ietf-extracted-YANG-modules/ietf-uses-geo-location@2019-02-02.= yang @@ -2,7 +2,7 @@ module ietf-uses-geo-location { namespace "urn:ietf:params:xml:ns:yang:ietf-uses-geo-location"; prefix ugeo; - import geo-location { prefix geo; } + import ietf-geo-location { prefix geo; } organization "Empty Org"; contact "Example Author "; description "Example use of geo-location"; The -00 version was correct in this, BTW. With kind regards, Jan From nobody Mon Jul 1 13:48:11 2019 Return-Path: X-Original-To: netmod@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: netmod@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id B2C6B120279; Mon, 1 Jul 2019 13:47:57 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -4.201 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-4.201 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-2.3, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id Te7LyWMNHWnq; Mon, 1 Jul 2019 13:47:55 -0700 (PDT) Received: from rfc-editor.org (rfc-editor.org [4.31.198.49]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher AECDH-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id E3679120194; Mon, 1 Jul 2019 13:47:55 -0700 (PDT) Received: by rfc-editor.org (Postfix, from userid 30) id F1D4DB81CDA; Mon, 1 Jul 2019 13:47:48 -0700 (PDT) To: andreas.jakobik@ericsson.com, mbj@tail-f.com X-PHP-Originating-Script: 30:errata_mail_lib.php From: RFC Errata System Cc: warren@kumari.net, iesg@ietf.org, netmod@ietf.org, rfc-editor@rfc-editor.org Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Message-Id: <20190701204748.F1D4DB81CDA@rfc-editor.org> Date: Mon, 1 Jul 2019 13:47:48 -0700 (PDT) Archived-At: Subject: [netmod] [Errata Verified] RFC7950 (5489) X-BeenThere: netmod@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: NETMOD WG list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 01 Jul 2019 20:48:03 -0000 The following errata report has been verified for RFC7950, "The YANG 1.1 Data Modeling Language". -------------------------------------- You may review the report below and at: https://www.rfc-editor.org/errata/eid5489 -------------------------------------- Status: Verified Type: Technical Reported by: Andreas Jakobik Date Reported: 2018-09-03 Verified by: Warren Kumari (Ops AD) (IESG) Section: 7.20.3.2 Original Text ------------- The argument "delete" deletes properties from the target node. The properties to delete are identified by substatements to the "delete" statement. Corrected Text -------------- The argument "delete" deletes properties from the target node. The properties to delete are identified by substatements to the "deviate" statement. Notes ----- -------------------------------------- RFC7950 (draft-ietf-netmod-rfc6020bis-14) -------------------------------------- Title : The YANG 1.1 Data Modeling Language Publication Date : August 2016 Author(s) : M. Bjorklund, Ed. Category : PROPOSED STANDARD Source : Network Modeling Area : Operations and Management Stream : IETF Verifying Party : IESG From nobody Mon Jul 1 21:09:21 2019 Return-Path: X-Original-To: netmod@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: netmod@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id A044812013B; Mon, 1 Jul 2019 21:09:18 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -6.898 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-6.898 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_HI=-5, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_NONE=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id EhmNTPYehZOD; Mon, 1 Jul 2019 21:09:17 -0700 (PDT) Received: from nagasaki.bogus.com (nagasaki.bogus.com [IPv6:2001:418:1::81]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 873061200B5; Mon, 1 Jul 2019 21:09:17 -0700 (PDT) Received: from [IPv6:2601:1c0:cb00:da11:5489:7d9b:f014:e502] ([IPv6:2601:1c0:cb00:da11:5489:7d9b:f014:e502]) (authenticated bits=0) by nagasaki.bogus.com (8.15.2/8.15.2) with ESMTPSA id x6249GFT066406; Tue, 2 Jul 2019 04:09:16 GMT (envelope-from joelja@bogus.com) From: Joel Jaeggli Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 12.4 \(3445.104.11\)) Message-Id: <38B6FE29-73AB-4452-880E-B22A72F57AE4@bogus.com> Date: Mon, 1 Jul 2019 21:09:15 -0700 Cc: NetMod WG Chairs To: NETMOD Working Group X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.3445.104.11) Archived-At: Subject: [netmod] Reminder IETF 105 - document submission deadline X-BeenThere: netmod@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: NETMOD WG list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 02 Jul 2019 04:09:19 -0000 Folks, Quick reminder that the internet draft submission deadline for IETF 105 = is 2019-07-08 the following (Monday) at UTC 23:59. =20 Thanks Netmod Chairs= From nobody Wed Jul 3 09:28:52 2019 Return-Path: X-Original-To: netmod@ietf.org Delivered-To: netmod@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from ietfa.amsl.com (localhost [IPv6:::1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7D5201202EC; Wed, 3 Jul 2019 09:28:43 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: internet-drafts@ietf.org To: Cc: netmod@ietf.org X-Test-IDTracker: no X-IETF-IDTracker: 6.98.1 Auto-Submitted: auto-generated Precedence: bulk Reply-To: netmod@ietf.org Message-ID: <156217132341.14724.7027858861858496964@ietfa.amsl.com> Date: Wed, 03 Jul 2019 09:28:43 -0700 Archived-At: Subject: [netmod] I-D Action: draft-ietf-netmod-yang-versioning-reqs-01.txt X-BeenThere: netmod@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 List-Id: NETMOD WG list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 03 Jul 2019 16:28:51 -0000 A New Internet-Draft is available from the on-line Internet-Drafts directories. This draft is a work item of the Network Modeling WG of the IETF. Title : YANG Module Versioning Requirements Author : Joe Clarke Filename : draft-ietf-netmod-yang-versioning-reqs-01.txt Pages : 12 Date : 2019-07-03 Abstract: This document describes the problems that can arise because of the YANG language module update rules, that require all updates to YANG module preserve strict backwards compatibility. It also defines the requirements on any solution designed to solve the stated problems. This document does not consider possible solutions, nor endorse any particular solution. The IETF datatracker status page for this draft is: https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-netmod-yang-versioning-reqs/ There are also htmlized versions available at: https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-netmod-yang-versioning-reqs-01 https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/html/draft-ietf-netmod-yang-versioning-reqs-01 A diff from the previous version is available at: https://www.ietf.org/rfcdiff?url2=draft-ietf-netmod-yang-versioning-reqs-01 Please note that it may take a couple of minutes from the time of submission until the htmlized version and diff are available at tools.ietf.org. Internet-Drafts are also available by anonymous FTP at: ftp://ftp.ietf.org/internet-drafts/ From nobody Wed Jul 3 09:33:15 2019 Return-Path: X-Original-To: netmod@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: netmod@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 04A221200E5; Wed, 3 Jul 2019 09:33:14 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -14.5 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-14.5 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_HI=-5, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001, USER_IN_DEF_DKIM_WL=-7.5] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (1024-bit key) header.d=cisco.com header.b=gUAJcT9U; dkim=pass (1024-bit key) header.d=cisco.onmicrosoft.com header.b=jBJRnbCk Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id joq5EzTWOXWu; 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DIR:OUT; SFP:1101; SCL:1; SRVR:CH2PR11MB4294; H:CH2PR11MB4200.namprd11.prod.outlook.com; FPR:; SPF:None; LANG:en; PTR:InfoNoRecords; A:1; MX:1; received-spf: None (protection.outlook.com: cisco.com does not designate permitted sender hosts) x-ms-exchange-senderadcheck: 1 x-microsoft-antispam-message-info: Kfwt+2mopgXMBSSf+0DI8e9lp4y/AmsjcJqSTKxVqQxycAs0abZ9i4SWcZxcUJEBDVbdR6WpdxAUX3/uE+AXh57NBW7zXt95/yH3f1n5rXFoqMWTWOwpBlMzjPhOsLCsrQC3S9C6Gv6Y2rcxx80XycH3U/VS3ShVm2uiy6p6p8dTeZ2GQYLmmaEjgg6id2ebbJ0A8XAihNuw8xXXqOQo6XZSqR2eJinvRqU+CoHwO8wuDjMkCG27q3FxcypCjsiN+hWrvHSq/ZOwd5RaiJBf9lPjVrGJ+afI1BrccZJQtKjXC1klEOxFTwdoKtTzhc+F6wyeO5mJSCSbkl1by10HjjQkl0/lyVs3KpJ5hF8Nbae5/GwqyCcFXP20k8Cz4f/90EfcYIcfy0PCeHZaT04yeHCy9KfXIrOXRFnIvKCi52U= Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-ID: <32E0C44EDB2B174F97A75B0128FD2CF2@namprd11.prod.outlook.com> Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable MIME-Version: 1.0 X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-Network-Message-Id: d74febaa-4aed-430b-ec0d-08d6ffd42188 X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-originalarrivaltime: 03 Jul 2019 16:33:07.8545 (UTC) X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-fromentityheader: Hosted X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-id: 5ae1af62-9505-4097-a69a-c1553ef7840e X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-mailboxtype: HOSTED X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-userprincipalname: jclarke@cisco.com X-MS-Exchange-Transport-CrossTenantHeadersStamped: CH2PR11MB4294 X-OriginatorOrg: cisco.com X-Outbound-SMTP-Client: 173.36.7.30, xch-aln-020.cisco.com X-Outbound-Node: alln-core-10.cisco.com Archived-At: Subject: Re: [netmod] I-D Action: draft-ietf-netmod-yang-versioning-reqs-01.txt X-BeenThere: netmod@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: NETMOD WG list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 03 Jul 2019 16:33:14 -0000 This new version changes the text around requirement 1.4 based on feedback = from IETF 104. The new requirement reads: 1.4 The solution MUST be able to express when non-backwards-compatible chan= ges have occurred between two revisions of a given YANG module. Joe > On Jul 3, 2019, at 12:28, internet-drafts@ietf.org wrote: >=20 >=20 > A New Internet-Draft is available from the on-line Internet-Drafts direct= ories. > This draft is a work item of the Network Modeling WG of the IETF. >=20 > Title : YANG Module Versioning Requirements > Author : Joe Clarke > Filename : draft-ietf-netmod-yang-versioning-reqs-01.txt > Pages : 12 > Date : 2019-07-03 >=20 > Abstract: > This document describes the problems that can arise because of the > YANG language module update rules, that require all updates to YANG > module preserve strict backwards compatibility. It also defines the > requirements on any solution designed to solve the stated problems. > This document does not consider possible solutions, nor endorse any > particular solution. >=20 >=20 > The IETF datatracker status page for this draft is: > https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-netmod-yang-versioning-reqs/ >=20 > There are also htmlized versions available at: > https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-netmod-yang-versioning-reqs-01 > https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/html/draft-ietf-netmod-yang-versioning-r= eqs-01 >=20 > A diff from the previous version is available at: > https://www.ietf.org/rfcdiff?url2=3Ddraft-ietf-netmod-yang-versioning-req= s-01 >=20 >=20 > Please note that it may take a couple of minutes from the time of submiss= ion > until the htmlized version and diff are available at tools.ietf.org. >=20 > Internet-Drafts are also available by anonymous FTP at: > ftp://ftp.ietf.org/internet-drafts/ >=20 > _______________________________________________ > netmod mailing list > netmod@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/netmod From nobody Thu Jul 4 05:58:33 2019 Return-Path: X-Original-To: netmod@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: netmod@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id C9511120655; Thu, 4 Jul 2019 05:58:21 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -4.2 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-4.2 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-2.3, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id XhTPHd_X0aSk; Thu, 4 Jul 2019 05:58:19 -0700 (PDT) Received: from huawei.com (lhrrgout.huawei.com [185.176.76.210]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 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hosts) x-ms-exchange-senderadcheck: 1 x-microsoft-antispam-message-info: eFRBOtchUOOTjrvl+FSOMmCgB82V/16pT+T9dYZUfdMlLzOdv89xHOcIzKT0v0fsByBWh9M09AozBcPWUorFoEO04N1sGpYFSvHmeSAzcU/OmsL62o5SuQxzcqqYnGulMdluOfYPXKigOd4VFLaza5N3V5U7NVgBbDeE3kZNWpk4Z7Cg1oQSuD0qZ3sxlHVZFLu1O0QTC4aGs/RlY0YmywL/1N56/FnNDq1H9JSvK3mc9322JyxOAG+bByYqXENRXqibI4ZmsGXofgGaF7EIMiefiHsmi6niZRBKG4wviYVhkwXz6nxAqsOhjMMKzlG1epW6nJB43PjeSYdAKkgUiC8HQQIz3kDbRUtu/ott9Zc7rNMRytMx/AJCZyyBl+noPIyBAFXroNbrrMSfgDxJD9HBk9qblBh5IK0N8OPSmYs= Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="_000_BYAPR11MB26312A19A95121F54DA876E2B5F50BYAPR11MB2631namp_" MIME-Version: 1.0 X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-Network-Message-Id: 93542a13-d202-4075-2cdc-08d701252101 X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-originalarrivaltime: 05 Jul 2019 08:45:27.3958 (UTC) X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-fromentityheader: Hosted X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-id: 5ae1af62-9505-4097-a69a-c1553ef7840e X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-mailboxtype: HOSTED X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-userprincipalname: rwilton@cisco.com X-MS-Exchange-Transport-CrossTenantHeadersStamped: BYAPR11MB3622 X-OriginatorOrg: cisco.com X-Outbound-SMTP-Client: 173.37.102.18, xch-rcd-008.cisco.com X-Outbound-Node: alln-core-4.cisco.com Archived-At: Subject: [netmod] YANG versioning DT update X-BeenThere: netmod@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: NETMOD WG list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 05 Jul 2019 08:45:36 -0000 --_000_BYAPR11MB26312A19A95121F54DA876E2B5F50BYAPR11MB2631namp_ Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hi, In addition to the updated requirements draft that Joe has already mentione= d, two updated versioning related drafts have been published for IETF 105: * the overview draft, draft-verdt-netmod-yang-solutions-01 * the module level versioning draft, draft-verdt-netmod-yang-module-ver= sioning-00 The versioning work is made up of several pieces, so the short overview dra= ft is intended to guide readers on how the different drafts relate. The majority of the Versioning Design Team's work over the last 4 months ha= s been to take the WG feedback on draft-verdt-netmod-yang-semver-00.txt, and pr= oduce draft-verdt-netmod-yang-module-versioning-00. It is our aim that t= his updated draft reflects the consensus of the feedback received during IE= TF 104. The intention is that the core semantic versioning scheme described in draf= t-verdt-netmod-yang-semver-00.txt will be updated as one possible mechanism to = label revisions. However, we didn't have time to update this draft over th= e last cycle. Finally, there are two other related drafts that haven't been updated at th= is stage (they are all referenced from the overview draft). I'm hoping tha= t there will be time available to present the ideas at 105: YANG packages draft (draft-rwilton-netmod-yang-packages-01) YANG Schema Version Selection (draft-wilton-netmod-yang-ver-selection-00) Thanks, Rob --_000_BYAPR11MB26312A19A95121F54DA876E2B5F50BYAPR11MB2631namp_ Content-Type: text/html; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

Hi,

 

In addition to the updated requirements draft that J= oe has already mentioned, two updated versioning related drafts have been p= ublished for IETF 105:

The versioning work is made up of several pieces, so the short overview dra= ft is intended to guide readers on how the different drafts relate.

The majority of the Versioning Design Team’s work over the last 4 mon= ths has been to take the WG feedback on draft-verdt-netmod-yang-semver-00.txt, and produce draft-verdt-netmod-yang-module-ve= rsioning-00.  It is our aim that this updated draft reflects the consensus of the = feedback received during IETF 104.

The intention is that the core semantic versioning scheme described in draft-verdt-netmod-yang-semver-00.txt will be updated as one possible m= echanism to label revisions.  However, we didn’t have time to up= date this draft over the last cycle.

Finally, there are tw= o other related drafts that haven’t been updated at this stage (they = are all referenced from the overview draft).  I’m hoping that th= ere will be time available to present the ideas at 105:

YANG packag= es draft (draft-rwilton-netmod-yang-packages-01)
YANG= Schema Version Selection (dr= aft-wilton-netmod-yang-ver-selection-00)

Thanks,
Rob

 

 

--_000_BYAPR11MB26312A19A95121F54DA876E2B5F50BYAPR11MB2631namp_-- From nobody Fri Jul 5 04:06:06 2019 Return-Path: X-Original-To: netmod@ietf.org Delivered-To: netmod@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from ietfa.amsl.com (localhost [IPv6:::1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0B1D512001E; Fri, 5 Jul 2019 04:05:59 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: internet-drafts@ietf.org To: Cc: netmod@ietf.org X-Test-IDTracker: no X-IETF-IDTracker: 6.98.2 Auto-Submitted: auto-generated Precedence: bulk Reply-To: netmod@ietf.org Message-ID: <156232475897.22054.3373212400499752685@ietfa.amsl.com> Date: Fri, 05 Jul 2019 04:05:59 -0700 Archived-At: Subject: [netmod] I-D Action: draft-ietf-netmod-yang-instance-file-format-03.txt X-BeenThere: netmod@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 List-Id: NETMOD WG list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 05 Jul 2019 11:05:59 -0000 A New Internet-Draft is available from the on-line Internet-Drafts directories. This draft is a work item of the Network Modeling WG of the IETF. Title : YANG Instance Data File Format Authors : Balazs Lengyel Benoit Claise Filename : draft-ietf-netmod-yang-instance-file-format-03.txt Pages : 25 Date : 2019-07-05 Abstract: There is a need to document data defined in YANG models when a live server is not available. Data is often needed already at design or implementation time or needed by groups that do not have a live running server available. This document specifies a standard file format for YANG instance data (which follows the syntax and semantic from existing YANG models, re-using the same format as the reply to a operation/request) and decorates it with metadata. The IETF datatracker status page for this draft is: https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-netmod-yang-instance-file-format/ There are also htmlized versions available at: https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-netmod-yang-instance-file-format-03 https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/html/draft-ietf-netmod-yang-instance-file-format-03 A diff from the previous version is available at: https://www.ietf.org/rfcdiff?url2=draft-ietf-netmod-yang-instance-file-format-03 Please note that it may take a couple of minutes from the time of submission until the htmlized version and diff are available at tools.ietf.org. Internet-Drafts are also available by anonymous FTP at: ftp://ftp.ietf.org/internet-drafts/ From nobody Fri Jul 5 04:24:54 2019 Return-Path: X-Original-To: netmod@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: netmod@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0969512024E for ; Fri, 5 Jul 2019 04:24:42 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.002 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.002 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIMWL_WL_HIGH=-0.001, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, FROM_EXCESS_BASE64=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_H2=-0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (1024-bit key) header.d=ericsson.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id if3mpnTu8tby for ; Fri, 5 Jul 2019 04:24:39 -0700 (PDT) Received: from EUR01-VE1-obe.outbound.protection.outlook.com (mail-eopbgr140048.outbound.protection.outlook.com [40.107.14.48]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id B01A91201F8 for ; 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charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hello, A draft version , draft-ietf-netmod-yang-instance-file-format-03.txt has = been posted. o target renamed to "content-schema" and "content defining Yang = module(s)" o Made name of instance data set optional o Updated according to draft-ietf-netmod-yang-data-ext-03 o Clarified that entity-tag and last-modified timestamp are encoded as metadata. While they contain useful data, the HTTP-header based encoding from Restconf is not suitable. Regards Balazs -----Original Message----- From: internet-drafts@ietf.org =20 Sent: 2019. j=C3=BAlius 5., p=C3=A9ntek 13:06 To: Benoit Claise ; Bal=C3=A1zs Lengyel = Subject: New Version Notification for = draft-ietf-netmod-yang-instance-file-format-03.txt A new version of I-D, draft-ietf-netmod-yang-instance-file-format-03.txt has been successfully submitted by Balazs Lengyel and posted to the IETF = repository. Name: draft-ietf-netmod-yang-instance-file-format Revision: 03 Title: YANG Instance Data File Format Document date: 2019-07-05 Group: netmod Pages: 25 URL: = https://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-ietf-netmod-yang-instance-file= -format-03.txt Status: = https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-netmod-yang-instance-file-for= mat/ Htmlized: = https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-netmod-yang-instance-file-format-0= 3 Htmlized: = https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/html/draft-ietf-netmod-yang-instance-fil= e-format Diff: = https://www.ietf.org/rfcdiff?url2=3Ddraft-ietf-netmod-yang-instance-file-= format-03 Abstract: There is a need to document data defined in YANG models when a live server is not available. Data is often needed already at design or implementation time or needed by groups that do not have a live running server available. This document specifies a standard file format for YANG instance data (which follows the syntax and semantic from existing YANG models, re-using the same format as the reply to a operation/request) and decorates it with metadata. = =20 Please note that it may take a couple of minutes from the time of = submission until the htmlized version and diff are available at = tools.ietf.org. 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(Postfix) with ESMTP id A86A8120173; Mon, 8 Jul 2019 14:06:10 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: internet-drafts@ietf.org To: Cc: netmod@ietf.org X-Test-IDTracker: no X-IETF-IDTracker: 6.98.3 Auto-Submitted: auto-generated Precedence: bulk Reply-To: netmod@ietf.org Message-ID: <156261997063.1039.2971981900243719264@ietfa.amsl.com> Date: Mon, 08 Jul 2019 14:06:10 -0700 Archived-At: Subject: [netmod] I-D Action: draft-ietf-netmod-nmda-diff-02.txt X-BeenThere: netmod@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 List-Id: NETMOD WG list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 08 Jul 2019 21:06:14 -0000 A New Internet-Draft is available from the on-line Internet-Drafts directories. This draft is a work item of the Network Modeling WG of the IETF. Title : Comparison of NMDA datastores Authors : Alexander Clemm Yingzhen Qu Jeff Tantsura Andy Bierman Filename : draft-ietf-netmod-nmda-diff-02.txt Pages : 17 Date : 2019-07-08 Abstract: This document defines an RPC operation to compare management datastores that comply with the NMDA architecture. The IETF datatracker status page for this draft is: https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-netmod-nmda-diff/ There are also htmlized versions available at: https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-netmod-nmda-diff-02 https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/html/draft-ietf-netmod-nmda-diff-02 A diff from the previous version is available at: https://www.ietf.org/rfcdiff?url2=draft-ietf-netmod-nmda-diff-02 Please note that it may take a couple of minutes from the time of submission until the htmlized version and diff are available at tools.ietf.org. Internet-Drafts are also available by anonymous FTP at: ftp://ftp.ietf.org/internet-drafts/ From nobody Tue Jul 9 04:55:36 2019 Return-Path: X-Original-To: netmod@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: netmod@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 699B51200E0; Tue, 9 Jul 2019 04:55:35 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -4.2 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-4.2 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-2.3, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id KHlWVswgF4eQ; Tue, 9 Jul 2019 04:55:32 -0700 (PDT) Received: from rfc-editor.org (rfc-editor.org [4.31.198.49]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher AECDH-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 2A1FA120132; Tue, 9 Jul 2019 04:55:32 -0700 (PDT) Received: by rfc-editor.org (Postfix, from userid 30) id BFECAB81569; Tue, 9 Jul 2019 04:55:29 -0700 (PDT) To: polisetty_ram@yahoo.com, phil@juniper.net X-PHP-Originating-Script: 30:errata_mail_lib.php From: RFC Errata System Cc: ibagdona@gmail.com, iesg@ietf.org, netmod@ietf.org, rfc-editor@rfc-editor.org Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Message-Id: <20190709115529.BFECAB81569@rfc-editor.org> Date: Tue, 9 Jul 2019 04:55:29 -0700 (PDT) Archived-At: Subject: [netmod] [Errata Verified] RFC6244 (5760) X-BeenThere: netmod@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: NETMOD WG list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 09 Jul 2019 11:55:35 -0000 The following errata report has been verified for RFC6244, "An Architecture for Network Management Using NETCONF and YANG". -------------------------------------- You may review the report below and at: https://www.rfc-editor.org/errata/eid5760 -------------------------------------- Status: Verified Type: Editorial Reported by: Ram Polisetty Date Reported: 2019-06-22 Verified by: Ignas Bagdonas (IESG) Section: 2.1 Original Text ------------- configuration datastore where configuration changes can be made that will not affect the device until a "commit-configuration" operation is invoked. Corrected Text -------------- configuration datastore where configuration changes can be made that will not affect the device until a "" operation is invoked. Notes ----- Netconf RPC for commit-configuration is -------------------------------------- RFC6244 (draft-ietf-netmod-arch-10) -------------------------------------- Title : An Architecture for Network Management Using NETCONF and YANG Publication Date : June 2011 Author(s) : P. Shafer Category : INFORMATIONAL Source : Network Modeling Area : Operations and Management Stream : IETF Verifying Party : IESG From nobody Tue Jul 9 11:30:58 2019 Return-Path: <0100016bd800adea-6301d1c5-5a82-4eaa-a7f3-afd421399950-000000@amazonses.watsen.net> X-Original-To: netmod@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: netmod@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id AE8E512006B; Tue, 9 Jul 2019 11:30:56 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.897 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.897 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_NONE=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (1024-bit key) header.d=amazonses.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id cUdz-GsXO--Y; Tue, 9 Jul 2019 11:30:54 -0700 (PDT) Received: from a8-83.smtp-out.amazonses.com (a8-83.smtp-out.amazonses.com [54.240.8.83]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 4AC4812000F; Tue, 9 Jul 2019 11:30:54 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; q=dns/txt; c=relaxed/simple; s=6gbrjpgwjskckoa6a5zn6fwqkn67xbtw; d=amazonses.com; t=1562697051; h=From:Message-Id:Content-Type:Mime-Version:Subject:Date:In-Reply-To:Cc:To:References:Feedback-ID; bh=aO7g9h/V32cXtg5d/8lXt7YUgDLfzS1axpV5iKBdeAE=; b=KgLVgeLAWX6LhS6HJyW3GxLy7QQMMQEQecLWVTj+cYLnEeefWqDG9AiJLSL2Bn4h 6uvJrNqgdXsxenXEK2YU41e8X9B+nNMLEIeV2vQ9PZKepTp1VXA8x/mN7Oq6ikMtzOu DZ/EHx7aqXutFVEIFqjVrWsl00VV6V9WkAd+7P68= From: Kent Watsen Message-ID: <0100016bd800adea-6301d1c5-5a82-4eaa-a7f3-afd421399950-000000@email.amazonses.com> Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="Apple-Mail=_CF4FB185-41B8-4110-AF78-CC0A27A78B85" Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 12.4 \(3445.104.11\)) Date: Tue, 9 Jul 2019 18:30:51 +0000 In-Reply-To: Cc: "netconf@ietf.org" , "netmod@ietf.org" To: Qin Wu References: X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.3445.104.11) X-SES-Outgoing: 2019.07.09-54.240.8.83 Feedback-ID: 1.us-east-1.DKmIRZFhhsBhtmFMNikgwZUWVrODEw9qVcPhqJEI2DA=:AmazonSES Archived-At: Subject: Re: [netmod] [netconf] RE: pls clarify get operation X-BeenThere: netmod@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: NETMOD WG list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 09 Jul 2019 18:30:57 -0000 --Apple-Mail=_CF4FB185-41B8-4110-AF78-CC0A27A78B85 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii [Just back from a 4th of July thing] Hi Qin, > It provides guideline how to create temporary non-NMDA module from = NMDA module, but temporary non-NMDA module is not standard module. So = everybody will create the same temporary non-NMDA module? > I also feel this second paragraph is not very clear, especially the = last sentence, is nested config false data nodes part of NMDA module or = temporary non-NMDA > Module? Looks like nested config false data node part of NMDA module? True, but as I wrote Frank on the 28th: =20 "Some drafts already publish a "state" module in their Appendix and, = when they do, there is a completely standard non-NMDA IETF solution. I = don't know if this strategy is being followed universally but, if not, = then I don't believe the IETF would object at all to the publication of = drafts for missing state models in drafts that only assumed NMDA." =20 Are you facing this situation currently? If so, with which modules? = Have you considered submitting an I-D to define the missing state tree = module? > Can non-NMDA client consume NMDA module? Sort of. The config-true nodes will appear in the as usual, = and the config-false nodes can be accessed via the standard operations. = But there will be issues as, for instance, the config-false nodes will = only appear for configured items and the operational value for = config-true nodes will be missing, the latter of which may be important = as an NMDA-optimized data model is unlikely to define config-false nodes = for any config-true nodes, and hence the config-false that are defined = may be far and few between, leading to an unacceptably incomplete = upstate view. > If the answer is Yes, why the server need to advertise both NMDA and = temporary non-NMDA module? Not "yes", see above. > Why operation is deprecated when non-NMDA client uses NMDA = module? It's not deprecated (yet). > How does the non-NMDA client deal with temporary non-NMDA module? Use = operation to get access to it? Yes. > How does the non-NMDA client distinguish NMDA module from temporary = Non-NMDA module? There is nothing in a module's definition that a client can key off to = determine that at the moment. A client could use deductive reasoning = (e.g., if there's a foo-state tree, then most likely non-NMDA), but this = is pretty limited. Per RFC 8407, the RFC's Introduction section should = indicate when a module is NMDA-optimized, so non-generic clients should = know. Kent // contributor --Apple-Mail=_CF4FB185-41B8-4110-AF78-CC0A27A78B85 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/html; charset=utf-8
[Just back from a 4th of July thing]

Hi Qin,

It provides guideline how to create temporary = non-NMDA module from NMDA module, but temporary non-NMDA module is not = standard module. So everybody will create the same temporary non-NMDA module? =






I also feel this second paragraph is not very = clear, especially the last sentence,  is nested config false data = nodes part of NMDA module or temporary non-NMDA

Module? Looks like  nested config false data = node part of NMDA module?


True, but as I wrote Frank on the 28th: =  

"Some = drafts already publish a "state" module in their Appendix and, when they = do, there is a completely standard non-NMDA IETF solution.  I don't = know if this strategy is being followed universally but, if not, = then I don't believe the IETF would object at all to the publication of = drafts for missing state models in drafts that only assumed NMDA." =   

Are you facing this situation currently?   If = so, with which modules?  Have you considered submitting an I-D to = define the missing state tree module?


Can non-NMDA client consume NMDA module? =


Sort of.  The config-true nodes will appear = in the <running> as usual, and the config-false nodes can be = accessed via the standard operations.  But there will be issues as, = for instance, the config-false nodes will only appear for configured = items and the operational value for config-true nodes will be missing, = the latter of which may be important as an NMDA-optimized data model is = unlikely to define config-false nodes for any config-true nodes, and = hence the config-false that are defined may be far and few between, = leading to an unacceptably incomplete upstate view.


If the answer is Yes, why the server need to = advertise both NMDA and temporary non-NMDA = module?


Not "yes", see above.


Why <get> operation is deprecated when = non-NMDA client uses NMDA = module?


It's not deprecated (yet).


How does the non-NMDA client deal with temporary = non-NMDA module? Use <get> operation to get access to = it?


Yes.

How does the non-NMDA client distinguish NMDA = module from temporary Non-NMDA = module?


There is nothing in a module's definition that a = client can key off to determine that at the moment.  A client could = use deductive reasoning (e.g., if there's a foo-state tree, then most = likely non-NMDA), but this is pretty limited.   Per RFC 8407, the = RFC's Introduction section should indicate when a module is = NMDA-optimized, so non-generic clients should know.


Kent // = contributor

= --Apple-Mail=_CF4FB185-41B8-4110-AF78-CC0A27A78B85-- From nobody Tue Jul 9 17:15:15 2019 Return-Path: <0100016bd93be4a2-a22ba545-c022-44d6-9188-1b51ff1effe0-000000@amazonses.watsen.net> X-Original-To: netmod@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: netmod@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6E0A7120159 for ; Tue, 9 Jul 2019 17:15:13 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.899 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.899 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_H2=-0.001, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_NONE=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (1024-bit key) header.d=amazonses.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id UZ7J_TSKJDcA for ; Tue, 9 Jul 2019 17:15:12 -0700 (PDT) Received: from a8-31.smtp-out.amazonses.com (a8-31.smtp-out.amazonses.com [54.240.8.31]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 14320120156 for ; Tue, 9 Jul 2019 17:15:10 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; q=dns/txt; c=relaxed/simple; s=6gbrjpgwjskckoa6a5zn6fwqkn67xbtw; d=amazonses.com; t=1562717709; h=From:Content-Type:Content-Transfer-Encoding:Mime-Version:Subject:Message-Id:Date:To:Feedback-ID; bh=TxioTj9UGYFIwhaKZ4tK9wHSTVGYUVGQqq+GPSe6J38=; b=QfdXRkwzh3QOXFijQB6KJR74p90likwyBXTIgx8WF6Tcej/U3ByXrMqGphH/6ENx oUtahbWf/hlAmwxcA6303FL8aApy+y4bUe6Ex5dstw/nb9/OP8veXobmdajF1LDyMYc WlNVBH0upXznOk1sS23FDt9b8y/cqhigE6i3nUR8= From: Kent Watsen Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 12.4 \(3445.104.11\)) Message-ID: <0100016bd93be4a2-a22ba545-c022-44d6-9188-1b51ff1effe0-000000@email.amazonses.com> Date: Wed, 10 Jul 2019 00:15:09 +0000 To: "netmod@ietf.org" X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.3445.104.11) X-SES-Outgoing: 2019.07.10-54.240.8.31 Feedback-ID: 1.us-east-1.DKmIRZFhhsBhtmFMNikgwZUWVrODEw9qVcPhqJEI2DA=:AmazonSES Archived-At: Subject: [netmod] WG Last Call: draft-ietf-netmod-sub-intf-vlan-model-05 X-BeenThere: netmod@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: NETMOD WG list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 10 Jul 2019 00:15:14 -0000 All, This starts a twelve-day working group last call for = draft-ietf-netmod-sub-intf-vlan-model-05. The working group last call ends on July 21 (the day before the NETMOD = 105 sessions). Please send your comments to the working group mailing = list. Positive comments, e.g., "I've reviewed this document and believe it is = ready for publication", are welcome! This is useful and important, even = from authors. 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Please send your comments to the working group mailing = list. Positive comments, e.g., "I've reviewed this document and believe it is = ready for publication", are welcome! This is useful and important, even = from authors. 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[73.189.13.44]) by smtp.gmail.com with ESMTPSA id u1sm2177869pgi.28.2019.07.10.06.46.40 (version=TLS1_2 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 bits=128/128); Wed, 10 Jul 2019 06:46:40 -0700 (PDT) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Mime-Version: 1.0 (1.0) From: Jeff Tantsura X-Mailer: iPad Mail (16F203) In-Reply-To: <0100016bd93be4a2-a22ba545-c022-44d6-9188-1b51ff1effe0-000000@email.amazonses.com> Date: Wed, 10 Jul 2019 06:46:39 -0700 Cc: "netmod@ietf.org" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Message-Id: <7D279828-C85F-4646-9061-77FE3287BD0E@gmail.com> References: <0100016bd93be4a2-a22ba545-c022-44d6-9188-1b51ff1effe0-000000@email.amazonses.com> To: Kent Watsen Archived-At: Subject: Re: [netmod] WG Last Call: draft-ietf-netmod-sub-intf-vlan-model-05 X-BeenThere: netmod@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: NETMOD WG list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 10 Jul 2019 13:46:46 -0000 Yes/support=20 Cheers, Jeff > On Jul 9, 2019, at 17:15, Kent Watsen wrote: >=20 > All, >=20 > This starts a twelve-day working group last call for draft-ietf-netmod-sub= -intf-vlan-model-05. >=20 > The working group last call ends on July 21 (the day before the NETMOD 105= sessions). Please send your comments to the working group mailing list. >=20 > Positive comments, e.g., "I've reviewed this document and believe it is re= ady for publication", are welcome! This is useful and important, even from a= uthors. >=20 > Thank you, > NETMOD Chairs > _______________________________________________ > netmod mailing list > netmod@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/netmod From nobody Wed Jul 10 14:40:51 2019 Return-Path: X-Original-To: netmod@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: netmod@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3F003120025 for ; Wed, 10 Jul 2019 14:40:50 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.898 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.898 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (768-bit key) header.d=labn.net Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 9lbVGPf938EI for ; Wed, 10 Jul 2019 14:40:47 -0700 (PDT) Received: from gproxy9-pub.mail.unifiedlayer.com (gproxy9-pub.mail.unifiedlayer.com [69.89.20.122]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id D79F51201E5 for ; Wed, 10 Jul 2019 14:40:46 -0700 (PDT) Received: from cmgw12.unifiedlayer.com (unknown [10.9.0.12]) by gproxy9.mail.unifiedlayer.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 01B421E07BD for ; Wed, 10 Jul 2019 15:40:41 -0600 (MDT) Received: from box313.bluehost.com ([69.89.31.113]) by cmsmtp with ESMTP id lKKOhioeaaTLglKKOhNlQD; Wed, 10 Jul 2019 15:40:40 -0600 X-Authority-Reason: nr=8 X-Authority-Analysis: $(_cmae_reason DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; q=dns/txt; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=labn.net; s=default; h=Content-Type:In-Reply-To:MIME-Version:Date:Message-ID:From: References:To:Subject:Sender:Reply-To:Cc:Content-Transfer-Encoding:Content-ID :Content-Description:Resent-Date:Resent-From:Resent-Sender:Resent-To: Resent-Cc:Resent-Message-ID:List-Id:List-Help:List-Unsubscribe:List-Subscribe :List-Post:List-Owner:List-Archive; bh=J1te4By2hhV5eaCqnmuyhxT4mVBvf8BQhCb+Llc8wxQ=; b=SPYiCVy0EttXfjttP6d2t1oxgd IbHYkT7oj9FxK6sxEufBJzrQohKxZ3CwuFK66sCin82aWGJoi/HafYXTiUw8E6L7dR39Xa09gfZYY 6tF7cqc94MQYhuSfaRx2p6HIJ; Received: from [127.0.0.1] (port=42221 helo=[IPv6:::1]) by box313.bluehost.com with esmtpsa (TLSv1.2:ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256:128) (Exim 4.92) (envelope-from ) id 1hlKKO-002zq3-L9; Wed, 10 Jul 2019 15:40:40 -0600 To: Kent Watsen , "netmod@ietf.org" References: <156167042338.21715.14230991158020374795@ietfa.amsl.com> <0100016b9add6136-2ad41038-eda3-4ebf-953f-187290bd678a-000000@email.amazonses.com> From: Lou Berger Message-ID: Date: Wed, 10 Jul 2019 17:40:39 -0400 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 10.0; WOW64; rv:60.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/60.3.1 MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: <0100016b9add6136-2ad41038-eda3-4ebf-953f-187290bd678a-000000@email.amazonses.com> Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="------------74484CA3BB6BBA5CDD26AC65" Content-Language: en-US X-AntiAbuse: This header was added to track abuse, please include it with any abuse report X-AntiAbuse: Primary Hostname - box313.bluehost.com X-AntiAbuse: Original Domain - ietf.org X-AntiAbuse: Originator/Caller UID/GID - [47 12] / [47 12] X-AntiAbuse: Sender Address Domain - labn.net X-BWhitelist: no X-Source-IP: 127.0.0.1 X-Source-L: Yes X-Exim-ID: 1hlKKO-002zq3-L9 X-Source: X-Source-Args: X-Source-Dir: X-Source-Sender: ([IPv6:::1]) [127.0.0.1]:42221 X-Source-Auth: lberger@labn.net X-Email-Count: 8 X-Source-Cap: bGFibm1vYmk7bGFibm1vYmk7Ym94MzEzLmJsdWVob3N0LmNvbQ== X-Local-Domain: yes Archived-At: Subject: Re: [netmod] I-D Action: draft-ietf-netmod-artwork-folding-06.txt X-BeenThere: netmod@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: NETMOD WG list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 10 Jul 2019 21:40:50 -0000 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --------------74484CA3BB6BBA5CDD26AC65 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=windows-1252; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Hi Kent, Authors, Sorry for the delay in processing this.  WRT your comments, see below: On 6/27/2019 5:35 PM, Kent Watsen wrote: > > This update primarily regards the non-normative script: > >     - renamed to "rfcfold" >     - now only uses sed one-liners >     - auto-detects if platforms `[g]sed` and `pcregrep` are present and >        suitable, outputting an error message if not. >     - cleans up the temporary directory if exits for any reason >     - improved error message around the script not implementing the >       force-fold logic. > >     Special thanks to Eric Auerswald for supplying the pull requests >     for much of the above! > > > Outside the updates to the script: > >     - renamed 9.3: >           OLD: Example Showing Smart Folding >           NEW: Example Showing "Smart" Folding > >     - renamed Appendix A: >           OLD: POSIX Shell Script: rfcfold >           NEW: POSIX Shell Script > > > My only comments are: > >     1) the script itself doesn't name itself "rfcfold" anywhere. >             - albeit, the "name" attribute in the XML is set to "rfcfold". I think adding a name would be good -- but this is a non-blocking comment. > >     2) if the script is expected to be distributed, we may want/need to >         add a copyright statement and/or a pointer to its GitHub repo. > > I believe the trust requires a specific license in all code segments in RFCs, see https://trustee.ietf.org/license-info/IETF-TLP-5.htm section 4.  I think this needs to be added before the document can be submitted for publication. Thanks, Lou (as Shepherd) > Thanks, > Kent > > >> On Jun 27, 2019, at 5:20 PM, internet-drafts@ietf.org >> wrote: >> >> >> A New Internet-Draft is available from the on-line Internet-Drafts >> directories. >> This draft is a work item of the Network Modeling WG of the IETF. >> >>        Title           : Handling Long Lines in Inclusions in >> Internet-Drafts and RFCs >>        Authors         : Kent Watsen >>                          Adrian Farrel >>                          Qin Wu >> Filename        : draft-ietf-netmod-artwork-folding-06.txt >> Pages           : 26 >> Date            : 2019-06-27 >> >> Abstract: >>   This document defines two strategies for handling long lines in >>   width-bounded text content.  One strategy is based on the historic >>   use of a single backslash ('\') character to indicate where line- >>   folding has occurred, with the continuation occurring with the first >>   non-space (' ') character on the next line.  The second strategy >>   extends the first strategy by adding a second backslash character to >>   identify where the continuation begins and thereby able to handle >>   cases not supported by the first strategy.  Both strategies use a >>   self-describing header enabling automated reconstitution of the >>   original content. >> >> >> The IETF datatracker status page for this draft is: >> https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-netmod-artwork-folding/ >> >> There are also htmlized versions available at: >> https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-netmod-artwork-folding-06 >> https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/html/draft-ietf-netmod-artwork-folding-06 >> >> A diff from the previous version is available at: >> https://www.ietf.org/rfcdiff?url2=draft-ietf-netmod-artwork-folding-06 >> >> >> Please note that it may take a couple of minutes from the time of >> submission >> until the htmlized version and diff are available at tools.ietf.org. >> >> Internet-Drafts are also available by anonymous FTP at: >> ftp://ftp.ietf.org/internet-drafts/ >> >> _______________________________________________ >> netmod mailing list >> netmod@ietf.org >> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/netmod > > > _______________________________________________ > netmod mailing list > netmod@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/netmod --------------74484CA3BB6BBA5CDD26AC65 Content-Type: text/html; charset=windows-1252 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit

Hi Kent, Authors,

Sorry for the delay in processing this.  WRT your comments, see below:

On 6/27/2019 5:35 PM, Kent Watsen wrote:

This update primarily regards the non-normative script:

    - renamed to "rfcfold"
    - now only uses sed one-liners
    - auto-detects if platforms `[g]sed` and `pcregrep` are present and
       suitable, outputting an error message if not.
    - cleans up the temporary directory if exits for any reason
    - improved error message around the script not implementing the
      force-fold logic.

    Special thanks to Eric Auerswald for supplying the pull requests 
    for much of the above!


Outside the updates to the script:

    - renamed 9.3:
          OLD: Example Showing Smart Folding
          NEW: Example Showing "Smart" Folding

    - renamed Appendix A:
          OLD: POSIX Shell Script: rfcfold
          NEW: POSIX Shell Script


My only comments are:

    1) the script itself doesn't name itself "rfcfold" anywhere.
            - albeit, the "name" attribute in the XML is set to "rfcfold".

I think adding a name would be good -- but this is a non-blocking comment.


    2) if the script is expected to be distributed, we may want/need to
        add a copyright statement and/or a pointer to its GitHub repo.


I believe the trust requires a specific license in all code segments in RFCs, see https://trustee.ietf.org/license-info/IETF-TLP-5.htm section 4.  I think this needs to be added before the document can be submitted for publication. 

Thanks,

Lou

(as Shepherd)


Thanks,
Kent


On Jun 27, 2019, at 5:20 PM, internet-drafts@ietf.org wrote:


A New Internet-Draft is available from the on-line Internet-Drafts directories.
This draft is a work item of the Network Modeling WG of the IETF.

       Title           : Handling Long Lines in Inclusions in Internet-Drafts and RFCs
       Authors         : Kent Watsen
                         Adrian Farrel
                         Qin Wu
Filename        : draft-ietf-netmod-artwork-folding-06.txt
Pages           : 26
Date            : 2019-06-27

Abstract:
  This document defines two strategies for handling long lines in
  width-bounded text content.  One strategy is based on the historic
  use of a single backslash ('\') character to indicate where line-
  folding has occurred, with the continuation occurring with the first
  non-space (' ') character on the next line.  The second strategy
  extends the first strategy by adding a second backslash character to
  identify where the continuation begins and thereby able to handle
  cases not supported by the first strategy.  Both strategies use a
  self-describing header enabling automated reconstitution of the
  original content.


The IETF datatracker status page for this draft is:
https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-netmod-artwork-folding/

There are also htmlized versions available at:
https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-netmod-artwork-folding-06
https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/html/draft-ietf-netmod-artwork-folding-06

A diff from the previous version is available at:
https://www.ietf.org/rfcdiff?url2=draft-ietf-netmod-artwork-folding-06


Please note that it may take a couple of minutes from the time of submission
until the htmlized version and diff are available at tools.ietf.org.

Internet-Drafts are also available by anonymous FTP at:
ftp://ftp.ietf.org/internet-drafts/

_______________________________________________
netmod mailing list
netmod@ietf.org
https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/netmod


_______________________________________________
netmod mailing list
netmod@ietf.org
https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/netmod
--------------74484CA3BB6BBA5CDD26AC65-- From nobody Wed Jul 10 14:57:41 2019 Return-Path: <0100016bdde44af6-e3b24fee-3afa-419b-aac0-368d5ec6ee1b-000000@amazonses.watsen.net> X-Original-To: netmod@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: netmod@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id CE75E1201E5 for ; Wed, 10 Jul 2019 14:57:39 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.897 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.897 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_NONE=0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (1024-bit key) header.d=amazonses.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id ZbLlrssB0Qw6 for ; Wed, 10 Jul 2019 14:57:36 -0700 (PDT) Received: from a8-96.smtp-out.amazonses.com (a8-96.smtp-out.amazonses.com [54.240.8.96]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 630D912012A for ; Wed, 10 Jul 2019 14:57:36 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; q=dns/txt; c=relaxed/simple; s=6gbrjpgwjskckoa6a5zn6fwqkn67xbtw; d=amazonses.com; t=1562795854; h=From:Content-Type:Content-Transfer-Encoding:Mime-Version:Subject:Message-Id:Date:To:Feedback-ID; bh=dSSnNFojyo8K1Zkjr3cvSsIsigYZAQRAdtSe3sqere0=; b=Y19z1xH2H5QN35YtcS3xVtntSObjUYiP+NmO5goXqQCq1vXDU6s+y31Zuk28mfXb Zm6tzXTeVh78GwLLGBlgJ5dbDJpzuGQMhOISpJE5GC7xPgqXGikxB8oK3BnaQ//Y7IN SCLQ6Z162cCh27T0rNwlsywLdIJ/Qd2MzAmC3boA= From: Kent Watsen Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 12.4 \(3445.104.11\)) Message-ID: <0100016bdde44af6-e3b24fee-3afa-419b-aac0-368d5ec6ee1b-000000@email.amazonses.com> Date: Wed, 10 Jul 2019 21:57:34 +0000 To: "netmod@ietf.org" X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.3445.104.11) X-SES-Outgoing: 2019.07.10-54.240.8.96 Feedback-ID: 1.us-east-1.DKmIRZFhhsBhtmFMNikgwZUWVrODEw9qVcPhqJEI2DA=:AmazonSES Archived-At: Subject: [netmod] draft netconf 105 agenda posted. X-BeenThere: netmod@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: NETMOD WG list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 10 Jul 2019 21:57:40 -0000 The draft NETMOD 105 agenda has been posted and reproduced below. https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/agenda-105-netmod/ Any corrections or updates needed? Presenters: 1) Please let the chairs know ASAP if needing to present remotely. 2) Please send your slides to the chairs by Friday, July 19th. Thanks, Kent and Lou and Joel Agenda for the NETMOD WG Session in IETF 105 -------------------------------------------- Two Sessions: (back to back, different rooms) Monday Afternoon Session 1: 13:30-15:30 in Viger (2nd floor) Session 2: 15:30-17:30 in Duluth (2nd floor) WG Chairs: Lou Berger (lberger at labn dot net) Joel Jaeggli (joelja at bogus dot com Kent Watsen (kent plus ietf at watsen dot net) Available During Session: Etherpad: https://etherpad.ietf.org/p/notes-ietf-105-netmod Slides: https://datatracker.ietf.org/meeting/105/session/netmod Meetecho: http://www.meetecho.com/ietf105/netmod/ Jabber: xmpp:netmod@jabber.ietf.org?join Audio Stream: - for Session 1: http://mp3.conf.meetecho.com/ietf/ietf1058.m3u - for Session 2: http://mp3.conf.meetecho.com/ietf/ietf1052.m3u Available Post Session: Recording: https://www.ietf.org/audio/ietf105/ YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/user/ietf/playlists ===== Session 1 ===== Introduction Chairs (10 minutes) Session Intro & WG Status Chartered items: Robert Wilton (0-20 minutes) Resolve Potential Issues from Last Calls https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-netmod-intf-ext-yang-07 https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-netmod-sub-intf-vlan-model-05 Balazs Lengyel (10 minutes) YANG Instance Data File Format https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-netmod-yang-instance-file-format-03 Qin Wu (10 minutes) Factory Default Setting https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-netmod-factory-default-02 Design Team items: Robert Wilton and Joe Clark (50 minutes) NETMOD Versioning Design Team Update https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-netmod-yang-versioning-reqs-01 https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-verdt-netmod-yang-solutions-01 https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-verdt-netmod-yang-module-versioning-00 Non-Chartered items: (Some of these may overflow to 2nd session) Robert Wilton (15 minutes) YANG Packages https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-rwilton-netmod-yang-packages-01 Reshad Rahman (15 minutes) YANG Schema Version Selection https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-wilton-netmod-yang-ver-selection-00 Michael Wang (10 minutes) A YANG Data model for Policy based Event Management https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-wwx-netmod-event-yang-02 ===== Session 2 ===== Introduction Chairs (5 minutes) Session Intro Pickup items leftover from 1st session. From nobody Wed Jul 10 15:07:35 2019 Return-Path: <0100016bdded5d4b-901644e4-0e63-4501-b8e3-940057030bf3-000000@amazonses.watsen.net> X-Original-To: netmod@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: netmod@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id C3650120236 for ; Wed, 10 Jul 2019 15:07:33 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.896 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.896 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_NONE=0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (1024-bit key) header.d=amazonses.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id nsWkUSC86QSt for ; Wed, 10 Jul 2019 15:07:31 -0700 (PDT) Received: from a8-88.smtp-out.amazonses.com (a8-88.smtp-out.amazonses.com [54.240.8.88]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 3E3C112012A for ; Wed, 10 Jul 2019 15:07:30 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; q=dns/txt; c=relaxed/simple; s=6gbrjpgwjskckoa6a5zn6fwqkn67xbtw; d=amazonses.com; t=1562796449; h=From:Content-Type:Mime-Version:Subject:Message-Id:Date:Cc:To:Feedback-ID; bh=i5MnSq/Je/jPc01rsgtQcJDPF1LLNHA6blueRhvbVrQ=; b=J9kImlYJknH+8QdRtKsVGD0Egj02Sa2iBnK/kyuvuyEfm2AcnWtOxiRCjqW2J4Zb PuXS7u27Z7nKCPocw4biTE1mHf618Bk5yGMcMD+JZpgQgaU5/KI+jhqUHeRe1r6f+nG ipne+XC1ASveOxo9FgpnbH+ibenzRWAtFlf3Q+ew= From: Kent Watsen Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="Apple-Mail=_D09F26D2-24C5-467E-9DF5-D092723266DF" Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 12.4 \(3445.104.11\)) Message-ID: <0100016bdded5d4b-901644e4-0e63-4501-b8e3-940057030bf3-000000@email.amazonses.com> Date: Wed, 10 Jul 2019 22:07:29 +0000 Cc: "netmod@ietf.org" To: "Rob Wilton (rwilton)" , David Ball , Tapraj Singh , Selvakumar Sivaraj X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.3445.104.11) X-SES-Outgoing: 2019.07.10-54.240.8.88 Feedback-ID: 1.us-east-1.DKmIRZFhhsBhtmFMNikgwZUWVrODEw9qVcPhqJEI2DA=:AmazonSES Archived-At: Subject: [netmod] IPR poll on draft-ietf-netmod-sub-intf-vlan-model-05 X-BeenThere: netmod@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: NETMOD WG list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 10 Jul 2019 22:07:34 -0000 --Apple-Mail=_D09F26D2-24C5-467E-9DF5-D092723266DF Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii To each author and contributor listed on the "To" line. In order to complete the Adoption poll, are you aware of any IPR that = applies to draft-ietf-netmod-sub-intf-vlan-model-05? Please Reply-All to *this* = email=20 and state either: "No, I'm not aware of any IPR that applies to this draft" o "Yes, I'm aware of IPR that applies to this draft" If "yes", has this IPR been disclosed in compliance with IETF IPR rules (see RFCs 3669, 5378 and 8179 for more details)? If "yes" again, please state either: "Yes, the IPR has been disclosed in compliance with IETF IPR rules" or "No, the IPR has not been disclosed" If you answer no, please provide any additional details you think = appropriate. If you are listed as a document author or contributor please answer the = above by responding to this email regardless of whether or not you are aware of = any relevant IPR. This document will not advance to the next stage until a response = has been received from each author and listed contributor. NOTE: THIS APPLIES TO = ALL OF YOU LISTED IN THIS MESSAGE'S TO LINES. If you are on the WG email list or attend WG meetings but are not listed = as an author or contributor, we remind you of your obligations under the IETF IPR = rules which encourages you to notify the IETF if you are aware of IPR of others on = an IETF contribution, or to refrain from participating in any contribution or = discussion related to your undisclosed IPR. For more information, please see the RFCs = listed above and http://trac.tools.ietf.org/group/iesg/trac/wiki/IntellectualProperty = . Thank you, NETMOD chairs= --Apple-Mail=_D09F26D2-24C5-467E-9DF5-D092723266DF Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/html; charset=us-ascii
To = each author and contributor listed on the "To" line.

In order to complete the Adoption poll, are = you aware of any IPR that applies
to draft-ietf-netmod-sub-intf-vlan-model-05? =  Please Reply-All to *this* = email 
and state = either:

"No, I'm not aware of any IPR that applies to this draft"
o
"Yes, I'm aware of IPR that applies to this = draft"

If "yes", has this IPR been = disclosed in compliance with IETF IPR rules
(see RFCs = 3669, 5378 and 8179 for more details)?

If = "yes" again, please state either:

"Yes, the = IPR has been disclosed in compliance with IETF IPR rules"
or
"No, the IPR has not been disclosed"

If you answer no, please provide any = additional details you think appropriate.

If = you are listed as a document author or contributor please answer the = above by
responding to this email regardless of whether or = not you are aware of any relevant
IPR.  This document = will not advance to the next stage until a response has been
received from each author and listed contributor.  NOTE: = THIS APPLIES TO ALL
OF YOU LISTED IN THIS MESSAGE'S TO = LINES.

If you are on the WG email list or = attend WG meetings but are not listed as an author
or = contributor, we remind you of your obligations under the IETF IPR rules = which
encourages you to notify the IETF if you are aware = of IPR of others on an IETF
contribution, or to refrain = from participating in any contribution or discussion related
to your undisclosed IPR. For more information, please see the = RFCs listed above
and http://trac.tools.ietf.org/group/iesg/trac/wiki/IntellectualPro= perty.

Thank you,
NETMOD = chairs
= --Apple-Mail=_D09F26D2-24C5-467E-9DF5-D092723266DF-- From nobody Wed Jul 10 15:07:43 2019 Return-Path: <0100016bdded624b-ed3b9adc-d830-4e63-a0e9-efc2aa75e807-000000@amazonses.watsen.net> X-Original-To: netmod@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: netmod@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 05944120236 for ; Wed, 10 Jul 2019 15:07:35 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.896 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.896 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_NONE=0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (1024-bit key) header.d=amazonses.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id gkBkTxRe15AZ for ; Wed, 10 Jul 2019 15:07:32 -0700 (PDT) Received: from a8-64.smtp-out.amazonses.com (a8-64.smtp-out.amazonses.com [54.240.8.64]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 89AB312022D for ; Wed, 10 Jul 2019 15:07:32 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; q=dns/txt; c=relaxed/simple; s=6gbrjpgwjskckoa6a5zn6fwqkn67xbtw; d=amazonses.com; t=1562796450; h=From:Content-Type:Mime-Version:Subject:Message-Id:Date:Cc:To:Feedback-ID; bh=xRLxwlLPmhNXYk2aZWpESJEm33Yw51Q6aNZ95DfSOTM=; b=FZ+Q1bmwtmwajBnRVBsNTcIowlROuppCx1DzDtmR8cNKNDU/f9alcDU1rbIoGafm PLd1HEPU/Ov1UDmkyxuazwkVGIZ1fuevV9hlItpwlP4Ib+qRDuBUbXI1JJRmwuyW3Mk jC689swIHIoTFAlKLoMsAP8tvZOUEREjTUPZBfZY= From: Kent Watsen Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="Apple-Mail=_AF119799-31AF-434A-8793-AE66A5B674F7" Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 12.4 \(3445.104.11\)) Message-ID: <0100016bdded624b-ed3b9adc-d830-4e63-a0e9-efc2aa75e807-000000@email.amazonses.com> Date: Wed, 10 Jul 2019 22:07:30 +0000 Cc: "netmod@ietf.org" To: "Rob Wilton (rwilton)" , David Ball , Tapraj Singh , Selvakumar Sivaraj X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.3445.104.11) X-SES-Outgoing: 2019.07.10-54.240.8.64 Feedback-ID: 1.us-east-1.DKmIRZFhhsBhtmFMNikgwZUWVrODEw9qVcPhqJEI2DA=:AmazonSES Archived-At: Subject: [netmod] IPR poll on WG Last Call: draft-ietf-netmod-intf-ext-yang-07 X-BeenThere: netmod@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: NETMOD WG list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 10 Jul 2019 22:07:35 -0000 --Apple-Mail=_AF119799-31AF-434A-8793-AE66A5B674F7 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii To each author and contributor listed on the "To" line. In order to complete the Adoption poll, are you aware of any IPR that = applies to WG Last Call: draft-ietf-netmod-intf-ext-yang-07? Please Reply-All = to *this* email and state either: "No, I'm not aware of any IPR that applies to this draft" or "Yes, I'm aware of IPR that applies to this draft" If "yes", has this IPR been disclosed in compliance with IETF IPR rules (see RFCs 3669, 5378 and 8179 for more details)? If "yes" again, please state either: "Yes, the IPR has been disclosed in compliance with IETF IPR rules" or "No, the IPR has not been disclosed" If you answer no, please provide any additional details you think = appropriate. If you are listed as a document author or contributor please answer the = above by responding to this email regardless of whether or not you are aware of = any relevant IPR. This document will not advance to the next stage until a response = has been received from each author and listed contributor. NOTE: THIS APPLIES TO = ALL OF YOU LISTED IN THIS MESSAGE'S TO LINES. If you are on the WG email list or attend WG meetings but are not listed = as an author or contributor, we remind you of your obligations under the IETF IPR = rules which encourages you to notify the IETF if you are aware of IPR of others on = an IETF contribution, or to refrain from participating in any contribution or = discussion related to your undisclosed IPR. For more information, please see the RFCs = listed above and http://trac.tools.ietf.org/group/iesg/trac/wiki/IntellectualProperty = . Thank you, NETMOD chairs= --Apple-Mail=_AF119799-31AF-434A-8793-AE66A5B674F7 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/html; charset=us-ascii
To each author and = contributor listed on the "To" line.

In = order to complete the Adoption poll, are you aware of any IPR that = applies
to WG = Last Call: draft-ietf-netmod-intf-ext-yang-07?  Please = Reply-All to *this*
email and state = either:

"No, I'm not aware of any IPR that applies to this draft"
or
"Yes, I'm aware of IPR that applies to this = draft"

If "yes", has this IPR been = disclosed in compliance with IETF IPR rules
(see RFCs = 3669, 5378 and 8179 for more details)?

If = "yes" again, please state either:

"Yes, the = IPR has been disclosed in compliance with IETF IPR rules"
or
"No, the IPR has not been disclosed"

If you answer no, please provide any = additional details you think appropriate.

If = you are listed as a document author or contributor please answer the = above by
responding to this email regardless of whether or = not you are aware of any relevant
IPR.  This document = will not advance to the next stage until a response has been
received from each author and listed contributor.  NOTE: = THIS APPLIES TO ALL
OF YOU LISTED IN THIS MESSAGE'S TO = LINES.

If you are on the WG email list or = attend WG meetings but are not listed as an author
or = contributor, we remind you of your obligations under the IETF IPR rules = which
encourages you to notify the IETF if you are aware = of IPR of others on an IETF
contribution, or to refrain = from participating in any contribution or discussion related
to your undisclosed IPR. For more information, please see the = RFCs listed above
and http://trac.tools.ietf.org/group/iesg/trac/wiki/IntellectualPro= perty.

Thank you,
NETMOD = chairs
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a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=cisco.onmicrosoft.com; s=selector2-cisco-onmicrosoft-com; h=From:Date:Subject:Message-ID:Content-Type:MIME-Version:X-MS-Exchange-SenderADCheck; bh=KNTsz0DVsRtLA8bJ7a8fOEaOjLSoPt100kYQ1qVTNIE=; b=0ztsBFPFxNdOh7Xz3QjXjTH1O592fLyOwdq2UlmUMRKXdAPIPsSoaUugekQJBllkoU+aCifvtxrPOk9adcpzUmpD2BMdw7/3VjwmqTRnRgUM5bTg0B3lul1xBrSJsDT1CaV3XBr71MJ/To6/+5sunkmGdYrQfXv+xkTD87IoBxY= Received: from BYAPR11MB2631.namprd11.prod.outlook.com (52.135.227.28) by BYAPR11MB2534.namprd11.prod.outlook.com (52.135.226.30) with Microsoft SMTP Server (version=TLS1_2, cipher=TLS_ECDHE_RSA_WITH_AES_256_GCM_SHA384) id 15.20.2052.18; Wed, 10 Jul 2019 22:27:47 +0000 Received: from BYAPR11MB2631.namprd11.prod.outlook.com ([fe80::91da:1669:aaf0:d428]) by BYAPR11MB2631.namprd11.prod.outlook.com ([fe80::91da:1669:aaf0:d428%4]) with mapi id 15.20.2052.020; Wed, 10 Jul 2019 22:27:47 +0000 From: "Rob Wilton (rwilton)" To: Kent Watsen , "David Ball (daviball)" , "Tapraj Singh (tapsingh)" , Selvakumar Sivaraj CC: "netmod@ietf.org" Thread-Topic: IPR poll on WG Last Call: draft-ietf-netmod-intf-ext-yang-07 Thread-Index: AQHVN2vjgOKMye1jI0+HwN4nYYoUAKbEbnlA Date: Wed, 10 Jul 2019 22:27:47 +0000 Message-ID: References: <0100016bdded624b-ed3b9adc-d830-4e63-a0e9-efc2aa75e807-000000@email.amazonses.com> In-Reply-To: <0100016bdded624b-ed3b9adc-d830-4e63-a0e9-efc2aa75e807-000000@email.amazonses.com> Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: authentication-results: spf=none (sender IP is ) smtp.mailfrom=rwilton@cisco.com; 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DIR:OUT; SFP:1101; SCL:1; SRVR:BYAPR11MB2534; H:BYAPR11MB2631.namprd11.prod.outlook.com; FPR:; SPF:None; LANG:en; PTR:InfoNoRecords; MX:1; A:1; received-spf: None (protection.outlook.com: cisco.com does not designate permitted sender hosts) x-ms-exchange-senderadcheck: 1 x-microsoft-antispam-message-info: cF4heubgzQDo6tyca+J1k2LCjeepRMNtLYf04OGv8v3J+apLBeqV8j6vzzTvb53Ymf/EmxIhrNz/3yUJK18zy262PEEs6GrcdYJBuzEM5ytIdrVZILNJZ7ie0MX2UB3Gvp0Te4+62mBZ+rbp0lE0O74RA6+cnWL0uj4SVVAhHhhXRZjvo9A8gUY6oyO8GkXJYwY7BNSr9gVQJDfArBJOG3XmCBfeWPLeyeGKfg36SHXJQu7AWLiBnJQuud2iJfBy1sBpa0KD/oXt3y/eisjCd/qwE1jOh3VdIucisNDd1haug45Bl8StQBNLnUmmqMonDzK6UE6uIbmMeooO/XOinMIfWUGAjbZNNFgrKqQ7CunmpMim1t+bqn+yIWJhvJB47ajOcdj15/Sv9+eIWqj3CC+l340jdxTySsO2g5v+YV8= Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="_000_BYAPR11MB26311A759B0ABE50A677884AB5F00BYAPR11MB2631namp_" MIME-Version: 1.0 X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-Network-Message-Id: 576f3efa-0f88-4338-89ee-08d70585d638 X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-originalarrivaltime: 10 Jul 2019 22:27:47.7244 (UTC) X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-fromentityheader: Hosted X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-id: 5ae1af62-9505-4097-a69a-c1553ef7840e X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-mailboxtype: HOSTED X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-userprincipalname: rwilton@cisco.com X-MS-Exchange-Transport-CrossTenantHeadersStamped: BYAPR11MB2534 X-OriginatorOrg: cisco.com X-Outbound-SMTP-Client: 173.37.102.11, xch-rcd-001.cisco.com X-Outbound-Node: rcdn-core-4.cisco.com Archived-At: Subject: Re: [netmod] IPR poll on WG Last Call: draft-ietf-netmod-intf-ext-yang-07 X-BeenThere: netmod@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: NETMOD WG list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 10 Jul 2019 22:28:00 -0000 --_000_BYAPR11MB26311A759B0ABE50A677884AB5F00BYAPR11MB2631namp_ Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable No, I'm not aware of any IPR that applies to this draft. From: Kent Watsen Sent: 10 July 2019 15:08 To: Rob Wilton (rwilton) ; David Ball (daviball) ; Tapraj Singh (tapsingh) ; Selvakumar Siv= araj Cc: netmod@ietf.org Subject: IPR poll on WG Last Call: draft-ietf-netmod-intf-ext-yang-07 To each author and contributor listed on the "To" line. In order to complete the Adoption poll, are you aware of any IPR that appli= es to WG Last Call: draft-ietf-netmod-intf-ext-yang-07? Please Reply-All to *= this* email and state either: "No, I'm not aware of any IPR that applies to this draft" or "Yes, I'm aware of IPR that applies to this draft" If "yes", has this IPR been disclosed in compliance with IETF IPR rules (see RFCs 3669, 5378 and 8179 for more details)? If "yes" again, please state either: "Yes, the IPR has been disclosed in compliance with IETF IPR rules" or "No, the IPR has not been disclosed" If you answer no, please provide any additional details you think appropria= te. If you are listed as a document author or contributor please answer the abo= ve by responding to this email regardless of whether or not you are aware of any = relevant IPR. This document will not advance to the next stage until a response has= been received from each author and listed contributor. NOTE: THIS APPLIES TO AL= L OF YOU LISTED IN THIS MESSAGE'S TO LINES. If you are on the WG email list or attend WG meetings but are not listed as= an author or contributor, we remind you of your obligations under the IETF IPR rules = which encourages you to notify the IETF if you are aware of IPR of others on an I= ETF contribution, or to refrain from participating in any contribution or discu= ssion related to your undisclosed IPR. For more information, please see the RFCs listed a= bove and http://trac.tools.ietf.org/group/iesg/trac/wiki/IntellectualProperty. Thank you, NETMOD chairs --_000_BYAPR11MB26311A759B0ABE50A677884AB5F00BYAPR11MB2631namp_ Content-Type: text/html; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

No, I'm not aware of any IPR that applies to this dra= ft.

&nbs= p;

&nbs= p;

From: Kent Watsen <kent+ietf@watsen= .net>
Sent: 10 July 2019 15:08
To: Rob Wilton (rwilton) <rwilton@cisco.com>; David Ball (davi= ball) <daviball@cisco.com>; Tapraj Singh (tapsingh) <tapsingh@cisc= o.com>; Selvakumar Sivaraj <ssivaraj@juniper.net>
Cc: netmod@ietf.org
Subject: IPR poll on WG Last Call: draft-ietf-netmod-intf-ext-yang-0= 7

 

To each author and contr= ibutor listed on the "To" line.

In order to complete the Adoption poll, are you aware of any IPR that appli= es
to WG Last Call: draft-ietf-netmod-intf-ext-yang-07?  Plea= se Reply-All to *this*

email and state eit= her:


"No, I'm not aware of any IPR that applies to this draft"
or
"Yes, I'm aware of IPR that applies to this draft"

If "yes", has this IPR been disclosed in compliance with IETF IPR= rules
(see RFCs 3669, 5378 and 8179 for more details)?

If "yes" again, please state either:

"Yes, the IPR has been disclosed in compliance with IETF IPR rules&quo= t;
or
"No, the IPR has not been disclosed"

If you answer no, please provide any additional details you think appropria= te.

If you are listed as a document author or contributor please answer the abo= ve by
responding to this email regardless of whether or not you are aware of any = relevant
IPR.  This document will not advance to the next stage until a respons= e has been
received from each author and listed contributor.  NOTE: THIS APPLIES = TO ALL
OF YOU LISTED IN THIS MESSAGE'S TO LINES.

If you are on the WG email list or attend WG meetings but are not listed as= an author
or contributor, we remind you of your obligations under the IETF IPR rules = which
encourages you to notify the IETF if you are aware of IPR of others on an I= ETF
contribution, or to refrain from participating in any contribution or discu= ssion related
to your undisclosed IPR. For more information, please see the RFCs listed a= bove
and http://trac.tools.ietf.org/group/iesg/trac/wiki/Intellectual= Property.

Thank you,

NETMOD chairs=

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charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable No, I'm not aware of any IPR that applies to this draft. From: Kent Watsen Sent: 10 July 2019 15:07 To: Rob Wilton (rwilton) ; David Ball (daviball) ; Tapraj Singh (tapsingh) ; Selvakumar Siv= araj Cc: netmod@ietf.org Subject: IPR poll on draft-ietf-netmod-sub-intf-vlan-model-05 To each author and contributor listed on the "To" line. In order to complete the Adoption poll, are you aware of any IPR that appli= es to draft-ietf-netmod-sub-intf-vlan-model-05? Please Reply-All to *this* em= ail and state either: "No, I'm not aware of any IPR that applies to this draft" o "Yes, I'm aware of IPR that applies to this draft" If "yes", has this IPR been disclosed in compliance with IETF IPR rules (see RFCs 3669, 5378 and 8179 for more details)? If "yes" again, please state either: "Yes, the IPR has been disclosed in compliance with IETF IPR rules" or "No, the IPR has not been disclosed" If you answer no, please provide any additional details you think appropria= te. If you are listed as a document author or contributor please answer the abo= ve by responding to this email regardless of whether or not you are aware of any = relevant IPR. This document will not advance to the next stage until a response has= been received from each author and listed contributor. NOTE: THIS APPLIES TO AL= L OF YOU LISTED IN THIS MESSAGE'S TO LINES. If you are on the WG email list or attend WG meetings but are not listed as= an author or contributor, we remind you of your obligations under the IETF IPR rules = which encourages you to notify the IETF if you are aware of IPR of others on an I= ETF contribution, or to refrain from participating in any contribution or discu= ssion related to your undisclosed IPR. For more information, please see the RFCs listed a= bove and http://trac.tools.ietf.org/group/iesg/trac/wiki/IntellectualProperty. Thank you, NETMOD chairs --_000_BYAPR11MB26311A63F1AAD66466EBDB21B5F00BYAPR11MB2631namp_ Content-Type: text/html; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

No, I'm not aware of any IPR that applies to this dra= ft.

&nbs= p;

&nbs= p;

&nbs= p;

From: Kent Watsen <kent+ietf@watsen= .net>
Sent: 10 July 2019 15:07
To: Rob Wilton (rwilton) <rwilton@cisco.com>; David Ball (davi= ball) <daviball@cisco.com>; Tapraj Singh (tapsingh) <tapsingh@cisc= o.com>; Selvakumar Sivaraj <ssivaraj@juniper.net>
Cc: netmod@ietf.org
Subject: IPR poll on draft-ietf-netmod-sub-intf-vlan-model-05

 

To each author and contr= ibutor listed on the "To" line.

In order to complete the Adoption poll, are you aware of any IPR that appli= es
to draft-ietf-netmod-sub-intf-vlan-model-05?  Please Reply-All to= *this* email 

and state either:


"No, I'm not aware of any IPR that applies to this draft"
o
"Yes, I'm aware of IPR that applies to this draft"

If "yes", has this IPR been disclosed in compliance with IETF IPR= rules
(see RFCs 3669, 5378 and 8179 for more details)?

If "yes" again, please state either:

"Yes, the IPR has been disclosed in compliance with IETF IPR rules&quo= t;
or
"No, the IPR has not been disclosed"

If you answer no, please provide any additional details you think appropria= te.

If you are listed as a document author or contributor please answer the abo= ve by
responding to this email regardless of whether or not you are aware of any = relevant
IPR.  This document will not advance to the next stage until a respons= e has been
received from each author and listed contributor.  NOTE: THIS APPLIES = TO ALL
OF YOU LISTED IN THIS MESSAGE'S TO LINES.

If you are on the WG email list or attend WG meetings but are not listed as= an author
or contributor, we remind you of your obligations under the IETF IPR rules = which
encourages you to notify the IETF if you are aware of IPR of others on an I= ETF
contribution, or to refrain from participating in any contribution or discu= ssion related
to your undisclosed IPR. For more information, please see the RFCs listed a= bove
and http://trac.tools.ietf.org/group/iesg/trac/wiki/Intellectual= Property.

Thank you,
NETMOD chairs

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with mapi id 15.20.2073.008; Thu, 11 Jul 2019 00:25:30 +0000 From: Selvakumar Sivaraj To: Kent Watsen , "Rob Wilton (rwilton)" , David Ball , Tapraj Singh CC: "netmod@ietf.org" Thread-Topic: IPR poll on WG Last Call: draft-ietf-netmod-intf-ext-yang-07 Thread-Index: AQHVN2vgmgMmpJtj30eXuGlBvcQblKbEGhOA Date: Thu, 11 Jul 2019 00:25:30 +0000 Message-ID: <7CC71EBD-E895-4D12-810D-A38FF66DBA66@juniper.net> References: <0100016bdded624b-ed3b9adc-d830-4e63-a0e9-efc2aa75e807-000000@email.amazonses.com> In-Reply-To: <0100016bdded624b-ed3b9adc-d830-4e63-a0e9-efc2aa75e807-000000@email.amazonses.com> Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: user-agent: Microsoft-MacOutlook/10.1a.0.190513 x-originating-ip: [66.129.239.11] x-ms-publictraffictype: Email x-ms-office365-filtering-correlation-id: 617c8450-08c4-4a24-0972-08d7059647c2 x-ms-office365-filtering-ht: Tenant x-microsoft-antispam: BCL:0; PCL:0; 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00:25:29 +0000 From: Selvakumar Sivaraj To: Kent Watsen , "Rob Wilton (rwilton)" , David Ball , Tapraj Singh CC: "netmod@ietf.org" Thread-Topic: IPR poll on draft-ietf-netmod-sub-intf-vlan-model-05 Thread-Index: AQHVN2vgvc5rX26Juke7Yf6HqBVBPqbEGhGA Date: Thu, 11 Jul 2019 00:25:29 +0000 Message-ID: <550CD9DA-713E-4197-984A-61562717BEEE@juniper.net> References: <0100016bdded5d4b-901644e4-0e63-4501-b8e3-940057030bf3-000000@email.amazonses.com> In-Reply-To: <0100016bdded5d4b-901644e4-0e63-4501-b8e3-940057030bf3-000000@email.amazonses.com> Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: user-agent: Microsoft-MacOutlook/10.1a.0.190513 x-originating-ip: [66.129.239.11] x-ms-publictraffictype: Email x-ms-office365-filtering-correlation-id: 139c5533-2525-4ce8-d52b-08d70596474d x-ms-office365-filtering-ht: Tenant x-microsoft-antispam: BCL:0; PCL:0; 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RjRra1hrLS1qaXlNSWpSQmxKQSZhbXA7ZT0iPmh0dHA6Ly90cmFjLnRvb2xzLmlldGYub3JnL2dy b3VwL2llc2cvdHJhYy93aWtpL0ludGVsbGVjdHVhbFByb3BlcnR5PC9hPi48YnI+DQo8YnI+DQpU aGFuayB5b3UsPGJyPg0KTkVUTU9EIGNoYWlyczxvOnA+PC9vOnA+PC9zcGFuPjwvcD4NCjwvZGl2 Pg0KPC9kaXY+DQo8L2JvZHk+DQo8L2h0bWw+DQo= --_000_550CD9DA713E4197984A61562717BEEEjunipernet_-- From nobody Wed Jul 10 19:34:31 2019 Return-Path: <0100016bdee1bb2c-27331635-a343-4e8c-b8a7-2bb05a8c675b-000000@amazonses.watsen.net> X-Original-To: netmod@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: netmod@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id EF26912008F for ; Wed, 10 Jul 2019 19:34:28 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.896 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.896 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_NONE=0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (1024-bit key) header.d=amazonses.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 1Jifza6rQleB for ; Wed, 10 Jul 2019 19:34:25 -0700 (PDT) Received: from a8-88.smtp-out.amazonses.com (a8-88.smtp-out.amazonses.com [54.240.8.88]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 8130E120052 for ; Wed, 10 Jul 2019 19:34:25 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; q=dns/txt; c=relaxed/simple; s=6gbrjpgwjskckoa6a5zn6fwqkn67xbtw; d=amazonses.com; t=1562812464; h=From:Message-Id:Content-Type:Mime-Version:Subject:Date:In-Reply-To:Cc:To:References:Feedback-ID; bh=aRnaxnPmpqJYiIxEubC50PB8BWlCVIr6jYxqacaOX1Q=; b=WtVSPoYH2jaGVAW3B5/wESalGGIg0fK8Q44Jhsg2CA8fg1JEDHsWPTdB/U2gD98b yrgymN5ap7HJ+tTfjNcR3l63XA51WUDTiZbOg97A7eA7A+zm2drF9qwCoCC9zqtikzJ Rj8b12JBGjcziQSQxHVUaXwznbPxHIgqbaaF94F0= From: Kent Watsen Message-ID: <0100016bdee1bb2c-27331635-a343-4e8c-b8a7-2bb05a8c675b-000000@email.amazonses.com> Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="Apple-Mail=_8A7B6D2B-B3EC-4727-ADB8-5121CE153DC3" Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 12.4 \(3445.104.11\)) Date: Thu, 11 Jul 2019 02:34:23 +0000 In-Reply-To: Cc: "netmod@ietf.org" To: Lou Berger References: <156167042338.21715.14230991158020374795@ietfa.amsl.com> <0100016b9add6136-2ad41038-eda3-4ebf-953f-187290bd678a-000000@email.amazonses.com> X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.3445.104.11) X-SES-Outgoing: 2019.07.11-54.240.8.88 Feedback-ID: 1.us-east-1.DKmIRZFhhsBhtmFMNikgwZUWVrODEw9qVcPhqJEI2DA=:AmazonSES Archived-At: Subject: Re: [netmod] I-D Action: draft-ietf-netmod-artwork-folding-06.txt X-BeenThere: netmod@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: NETMOD WG list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 11 Jul 2019 02:34:29 -0000 --Apple-Mail=_8A7B6D2B-B3EC-4727-ADB8-5121CE153DC3 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Hi Lou (shepherd), The requested updates have been pushed to GitHub, as can be seen by the = commit diff: = https://github.com/netmod-wg/artwork-folding/commit/24a1b25abd4d33c2ac07f0= 9b1daa8725b5061f4c = . -07 will be posted to Datatracker when the submission window reopens (or = sooner, if you request an exception). PS: Erik and I are listed as copyright holders, in addition to IETF = Trust, as seemed to be expected by (4c) in the link you provided. = Please let me know if any adjustments are needed.=20 Thanks, Kent (as an author) > On Jul 10, 2019, at 5:40 PM, Lou Berger wrote: >=20 > Hi Kent, Authors, >=20 > Sorry for the delay in processing this. WRT your comments, see below: >=20 > On 6/27/2019 5:35 PM, Kent Watsen wrote: >>=20 >> This update primarily regards the non-normative script: >>=20 >> - renamed to "rfcfold" >> - now only uses sed one-liners >> - auto-detects if platforms `[g]sed` and `pcregrep` are present = and >> suitable, outputting an error message if not. >> - cleans up the temporary directory if exits for any reason >> - improved error message around the script not implementing the >> force-fold logic. >>=20 >> Special thanks to Eric Auerswald for supplying the pull requests=20= >> for much of the above! >>=20 >>=20 >> Outside the updates to the script: >>=20 >> - renamed 9.3: >> OLD: Example Showing Smart Folding >> NEW: Example Showing "Smart" Folding >>=20 >> - renamed Appendix A: >> OLD: POSIX Shell Script: rfcfold >> NEW: POSIX Shell Script >>=20 >>=20 >> My only comments are: >>=20 >> 1) the script itself doesn't name itself "rfcfold" anywhere. >> - albeit, the "name" attribute in the XML is set to = "rfcfold". > I think adding a name would be good -- but this is a non-blocking = comment. >=20 >>=20 >> 2) if the script is expected to be distributed, we may want/need = to >> add a copyright statement and/or a pointer to its GitHub = repo. >>=20 >>=20 > I believe the trust requires a specific license in all code segments = in RFCs, see https://trustee.ietf.org/license-info/IETF-TLP-5.htm = section 4. I = think this needs to be added before the document can be submitted for = publication. =20 >=20 > Thanks, >=20 > Lou=20 >=20 > (as Shepherd) >=20 >=20 >=20 >> Thanks, >> Kent >>=20 >>=20 >>> On Jun 27, 2019, at 5:20 PM, internet-drafts@ietf.org = wrote: >>>=20 >>>=20 >>> A New Internet-Draft is available from the on-line Internet-Drafts = directories. >>> This draft is a work item of the Network Modeling WG of the IETF. >>>=20 >>> Title : Handling Long Lines in Inclusions in = Internet-Drafts and RFCs >>> Authors : Kent Watsen >>> Adrian Farrel >>> Qin Wu >>> Filename : draft-ietf-netmod-artwork-folding-06.txt >>> Pages : 26 >>> Date : 2019-06-27 >>>=20 >>> Abstract: >>> This document defines two strategies for handling long lines in >>> width-bounded text content. One strategy is based on the historic >>> use of a single backslash ('\') character to indicate where line- >>> folding has occurred, with the continuation occurring with the = first >>> non-space (' ') character on the next line. The second strategy >>> extends the first strategy by adding a second backslash character = to >>> identify where the continuation begins and thereby able to handle >>> cases not supported by the first strategy. Both strategies use a >>> self-describing header enabling automated reconstitution of the >>> original content. >>>=20 >>>=20 >>> The IETF datatracker status page for this draft is: >>> https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-netmod-artwork-folding/ = >>>=20 >>> There are also htmlized versions available at: >>> https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-netmod-artwork-folding-06 = >>> = https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/html/draft-ietf-netmod-artwork-folding-06= = >>>=20 >>> A diff from the previous version is available at: >>> = https://www.ietf.org/rfcdiff?url2=3Ddraft-ietf-netmod-artwork-folding-06 = = >>>=20 >>>=20 >>> Please note that it may take a couple of minutes from the time of = submission >>> until the htmlized version and diff are available at tools.ietf.org. >>>=20 >>> Internet-Drafts are also available by anonymous FTP at: >>> ftp://ftp.ietf.org/internet-drafts/ = >>>=20 >>> _______________________________________________ >>> netmod mailing list >>> netmod@ietf.org >>> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/netmod = >>=20 >>=20 >>=20 >> _______________________________________________ >> netmod mailing list >> netmod@ietf.org >> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/netmod = > _______________________________________________ > netmod mailing list > netmod@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/netmod --Apple-Mail=_8A7B6D2B-B3EC-4727-ADB8-5121CE153DC3 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/html; charset=us-ascii
Hi Lou (shepherd),

The requested updates have been pushed = to GitHub, as can be seen by the commit diff: https://github.com/netmod-wg/artwork-folding/commit/24a1b25abd4= d33c2ac07f09b1daa8725b5061f4c.

-07 will be posted to Datatracker when = the submission window reopens (or sooner, if you request an = exception).

PS: = Erik and I are listed as copyright holders, in addition to IETF Trust, = as seemed to be expected by (4c) in the link you provided.  Please = let me know if any adjustments are needed. 

Thanks,
Kent (as = an author)



On Jul 10, 2019, at 5:40 PM, Lou Berger <lberger@labn.net> = wrote:

=20 =20

Hi = Kent, Authors,

Sorry for the delay in processing this.  WRT = your comments, see below:

On 6/27/2019 5:35 PM, Kent Watsen wrote:

This update primarily regards the non-normative script:

    - renamed to "rfcfold"
    - now only uses sed one-liners
    - auto-detects if platforms `[g]sed` = and `pcregrep` are present and
       suitable, outputting an = error message if not.
    - cleans up the temporary directory = if exits for any reason
    - improved error message around the = script not implementing the
      force-fold logic.

    Special thanks to Eric Auerswald for = supplying the pull requests 
    for much of the above!


Outside the updates to the script:

    - renamed 9.3:
          OLD: Example = Showing Smart Folding
          NEW: Example = Showing "Smart" Folding

    - renamed Appendix A:
          OLD: POSIX = Shell Script: rfcfold
          NEW: POSIX = Shell Script


My only comments are:

    1) the script itself doesn't name = itself "rfcfold" anywhere.
            - = albeit, the "name" attribute in the XML is set to "rfcfold".

I think adding a name would be good -- = but this is a non-blocking comment.


    2) if the script is expected to be = distributed, we may want/need to
        add a copyright = statement and/or a pointer to its GitHub repo.


I believe the trust requires a specific = license in all code segments in RFCs, see https://trustee.ietf.org/license-info/IETF-TLP-5.htm section 4.  I think this needs to be added before the = document can be submitted for publication. 

Thanks,

Lou

(as Shepherd)


Thanks,
Kent


On Jun 27, 2019, at 5:20 PM, internet-drafts@ietf.org wrote:


A New Internet-Draft is available from the on-line Internet-Drafts directories.
This draft is a work item of the Network Modeling WG of the IETF.

       Title =           : Handling = Long Lines in Inclusions in Internet-Drafts and RFCs
       Authors =         : Kent Watsen
=             &n= bsp;           &nbs= p;Adrian Farrel
=             &n= bsp;           &nbs= p;Qin Wu
= Filename        : = draft-ietf-netmod-artwork-folding-06.txt
= Pages =           : 26
= Date =            : = 2019-06-27

Abstract:
  This document defines two strategies for = handling long lines in
  width-bounded text content.  One = strategy is based on the historic
  use of a single backslash ('\') character to = indicate where line-
  folding has occurred, with the continuation = occurring with the first
  non-space (' ') character on the next line. =  The second strategy
  extends the first strategy by adding a = second backslash character to
  identify where the continuation begins and = thereby able to handle
  cases not supported by the first strategy. =  Both strategies use a
  self-describing header enabling automated reconstitution of the
  original content.


The IETF datatracker status page for this draft is:
https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-netmo= d-artwork-folding/

There are also htmlized versions available at:
= https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-netmod-artwork-folding-06
https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/html/draft-ietf-netmod-artwork-= folding-06

A diff from the previous version is available at:
https://www.ietf.org/rfcdiff?url2=3Ddraft-ietf-netmod-artwork-fold= ing-06


Please note that it may take a couple of minutes from the time of submission
until the htmlized version and diff are available at tools.ietf.org.

Internet-Drafts are also available by anonymous FTP = at:
ftp://ftp.ietf.org/internet-d= rafts/

_______________________________________________
netmod mailing list
netmod@ietf.org
https://www.ietf.org= /mailman/listinfo/netmod


_______________________________________________
netmod mailing list
netmod@ietf.org
https://www.ietf.org=
/mailman/listinfo/netmod
_______________________________________________
netmod = mailing list
netmod@ietf.org
https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/netmod

= --Apple-Mail=_8A7B6D2B-B3EC-4727-ADB8-5121CE153DC3-- From nobody Thu Jul 11 01:50:49 2019 Return-Path: X-Original-To: netmod@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: netmod@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id A24E71202B1 for ; Thu, 11 Jul 2019 01:50:48 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -14.5 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-14.5 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIMWL_WL_HIGH=-0.001, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_HI=-5, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001, USER_IN_DEF_DKIM_WL=-7.5] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (1024-bit key) header.d=cisco.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 5C4sb0ygn-gv for ; Thu, 11 Jul 2019 01:50:46 -0700 (PDT) Received: from aer-iport-4.cisco.com (aer-iport-4.cisco.com [173.38.203.54]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher DHE-RSA-SEED-SHA (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id E4A69120291 for ; Thu, 11 Jul 2019 01:50:45 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/simple; d=cisco.com; i=@cisco.com; l=6915; q=dns/txt; s=iport; t=1562835046; x=1564044646; h=subject:to:cc:references:from:message-id:date: mime-version:in-reply-to; bh=JO6gYMKgj1JGzAQ5CaaHCGqP3RwU/exsVbqXK1qhcUw=; b=gTnrnm92GybRxjoyCEDBfn/XNR0vWBt8e+VbLDDxDb7ry3mHeLPqbe0B r93QyUJ5HhGB7FiyLgnx4Uwkzr4zaXMGHzPqJO9P4dY0Uvp3skhXLPtOS 6Uur4dXWaO9rAr1/jhGR2y5L0Zt/I37F2l+A+n6wA6cBDQ/s8TIM557e1 M=; X-IronPort-AV: E=Sophos; i="5.63,478,1557187200"; d="scan'208,217"; a="14127467" Received: from aer-iport-nat.cisco.com (HELO aer-core-2.cisco.com) ([173.38.203.22]) by aer-iport-4.cisco.com with ESMTP/TLS/DHE-RSA-SEED-SHA; 11 Jul 2019 08:50:43 +0000 Received: from [10.63.23.113] (dhcp-ensft1-uk-vla370-10-63-23-113.cisco.com [10.63.23.113]) by aer-core-2.cisco.com (8.15.2/8.15.2) with ESMTP id x6B8ohYT011395; Thu, 11 Jul 2019 08:50:43 GMT To: Kent Watsen , "Rob Wilton (rwilton)" , Tapraj Singh , Selvakumar Sivaraj Cc: "netmod@ietf.org" References: <0100016bdded624b-ed3b9adc-d830-4e63-a0e9-efc2aa75e807-000000@email.amazonses.com> From: David Ball Message-ID: <202ad3d3-980d-482c-45af-e0e42ab77790@cisco.com> Date: Thu, 11 Jul 2019 09:50:42 +0100 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 10.0; WOW64; rv:60.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/60.7.2 MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: <0100016bdded624b-ed3b9adc-d830-4e63-a0e9-efc2aa75e807-000000@email.amazonses.com> Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="------------C1DFB8B0A31581DD7F549B38" Content-Language: en-US X-Outbound-SMTP-Client: 10.63.23.113, dhcp-ensft1-uk-vla370-10-63-23-113.cisco.com X-Outbound-Node: aer-core-2.cisco.com Archived-At: Subject: Re: [netmod] IPR poll on WG Last Call: draft-ietf-netmod-intf-ext-yang-07 X-BeenThere: netmod@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: NETMOD WG list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 11 Jul 2019 08:50:48 -0000 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --------------C1DFB8B0A31581DD7F549B38 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=windows-1252; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit No, I'm not aware of any IPR that applies to this draft. David On 10/07/2019 23:07, Kent Watsen wrote: > To each author and contributor listed on the "To" line. > > In order to complete the Adoption poll, are you aware of any IPR that > applies > to WG Last Call: draft-ietf-netmod-intf-ext-yang-07?  Please Reply-All > to *this* > email and state either: > > "No, I'm not aware of any IPR that applies to this draft" > or > "Yes, I'm aware of IPR that applies to this draft" > > If "yes", has this IPR been disclosed in compliance with IETF IPR rules > (see RFCs 3669, 5378 and 8179 for more details)? > > If "yes" again, please state either: > > "Yes, the IPR has been disclosed in compliance with IETF IPR rules" > or > "No, the IPR has not been disclosed" > > If you answer no, please provide any additional details you think > appropriate. > > If you are listed as a document author or contributor please answer > the above by > responding to this email regardless of whether or not you are aware of > any relevant > IPR.  This document will not advance to the next stage until a > response has been > received from each author and listed contributor.  NOTE: THIS APPLIES > TO ALL > OF YOU LISTED IN THIS MESSAGE'S TO LINES. > > If you are on the WG email list or attend WG meetings but are not > listed as an author > or contributor, we remind you of your obligations under the IETF IPR > rules which > encourages you to notify the IETF if you are aware of IPR of others on > an IETF > contribution, or to refrain from participating in any contribution or > discussion related > to your undisclosed IPR. For more information, please see the RFCs > listed above > and http://trac.tools.ietf.org/group/iesg/trac/wiki/IntellectualProperty. > > Thank you, > NETMOD chairs -- David Ball --------------C1DFB8B0A31581DD7F549B38 Content-Type: text/html; charset=windows-1252 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit

No, I'm not aware of any IPR that applies to this draft.

    David

On 10/07/2019 23:07, Kent Watsen wrote:
To each author and contributor listed on the "To" line.

In order to complete the Adoption poll, are you aware of any IPR that applies
to WG Last Call: draft-ietf-netmod-intf-ext-yang-07?  Please Reply-All to *this*
email and state either:

"No, I'm not aware of any IPR that applies to this draft"
or
"Yes, I'm aware of IPR that applies to this draft"

If "yes", has this IPR been disclosed in compliance with IETF IPR rules
(see RFCs 3669, 5378 and 8179 for more details)?

If "yes" again, please state either:

"Yes, the IPR has been disclosed in compliance with IETF IPR rules"
or
"No, the IPR has not been disclosed"

If you answer no, please provide any additional details you think appropriate.

If you are listed as a document author or contributor please answer the above by
responding to this email regardless of whether or not you are aware of any relevant
IPR.  This document will not advance to the next stage until a response has been
received from each author and listed contributor.  NOTE: THIS APPLIES TO ALL
OF YOU LISTED IN THIS MESSAGE'S TO LINES.

If you are on the WG email list or attend WG meetings but are not listed as an author
or contributor, we remind you of your obligations under the IETF IPR rules which
encourages you to notify the IETF if you are aware of IPR of others on an IETF
contribution, or to refrain from participating in any contribution or discussion related
to your undisclosed IPR. For more information, please see the RFCs listed above
and http://trac.tools.ietf.org/group/iesg/trac/wiki/IntellectualProperty.

Thank you,
NETMOD chairs
-- 
David Ball
<daviball@cisco.com>
--------------C1DFB8B0A31581DD7F549B38-- From nobody Thu Jul 11 01:51:02 2019 Return-Path: X-Original-To: netmod@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: netmod@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id A55101203AE for ; Thu, 11 Jul 2019 01:51:00 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -14.5 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-14.5 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIMWL_WL_HIGH=-0.001, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_HI=-5, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001, USER_IN_DEF_DKIM_WL=-7.5] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (1024-bit key) header.d=cisco.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id H3ktLZ3DVGEE for ; Thu, 11 Jul 2019 01:50:58 -0700 (PDT) Received: from aer-iport-2.cisco.com (aer-iport-2.cisco.com [173.38.203.52]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher DHE-RSA-SEED-SHA (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 7E9C212030D for ; Thu, 11 Jul 2019 01:50:57 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/simple; d=cisco.com; i=@cisco.com; l=6963; q=dns/txt; s=iport; t=1562835057; x=1564044657; h=subject:to:cc:references:from:message-id:date: mime-version:in-reply-to; bh=lGv4xHDN11hX9IKZSoy7x8dDSvSwdubhiR878wkws2Y=; b=Ax+YVkqnbLRu6Qui/C56CVTOLPwVsCrzEJuLzZX7+sLouPN+gjCk2LlH L0uhW+cq80W2TP3vab8jvIiNcIyeMLGeAkLe2fkTd9HlpGK9+10Fpe+VX MPEbCu3TcQx1BJ4VRMofheIcZW6KsUa+DWhaUmE5AFs7tj6I3kEqjUrOJ E=; X-IronPort-AV: E=Sophos; i="5.63,478,1557187200"; d="scan'208,217"; a="14185889" Received: from aer-iport-nat.cisco.com (HELO aer-core-1.cisco.com) ([173.38.203.22]) by aer-iport-2.cisco.com with ESMTP/TLS/DHE-RSA-SEED-SHA; 11 Jul 2019 08:50:55 +0000 Received: from [10.63.23.113] (dhcp-ensft1-uk-vla370-10-63-23-113.cisco.com [10.63.23.113]) by aer-core-1.cisco.com (8.15.2/8.15.2) with ESMTP id x6B8ornj017483; Thu, 11 Jul 2019 08:50:55 GMT To: Kent Watsen , "Rob Wilton (rwilton)" , Tapraj Singh , Selvakumar Sivaraj Cc: "netmod@ietf.org" References: <0100016bdded5d4b-901644e4-0e63-4501-b8e3-940057030bf3-000000@email.amazonses.com> From: David Ball Message-ID: Date: Thu, 11 Jul 2019 09:50:53 +0100 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 10.0; WOW64; rv:60.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/60.7.2 MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: <0100016bdded5d4b-901644e4-0e63-4501-b8e3-940057030bf3-000000@email.amazonses.com> Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="------------053CA9EA2D9671712126B119" Content-Language: en-US X-Outbound-SMTP-Client: 10.63.23.113, dhcp-ensft1-uk-vla370-10-63-23-113.cisco.com X-Outbound-Node: aer-core-1.cisco.com Archived-At: Subject: Re: [netmod] IPR poll on draft-ietf-netmod-sub-intf-vlan-model-05 X-BeenThere: netmod@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: NETMOD WG list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 11 Jul 2019 08:51:01 -0000 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --------------053CA9EA2D9671712126B119 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=windows-1252; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit No, I'm not aware of any IPR that applies to this draft. David On 10/07/2019 23:07, Kent Watsen wrote: > To each author and contributor listed on the "To" line. > > In order to complete the Adoption poll, are you aware of any IPR that > applies > to draft-ietf-netmod-sub-intf-vlan-model-05?  Please Reply-All to > *this* email > and state either: > > "No, I'm not aware of any IPR that applies to this draft" > o > "Yes, I'm aware of IPR that applies to this draft" > > If "yes", has this IPR been disclosed in compliance with IETF IPR rules > (see RFCs 3669, 5378 and 8179 for more details)? > > If "yes" again, please state either: > > "Yes, the IPR has been disclosed in compliance with IETF IPR rules" > or > "No, the IPR has not been disclosed" > > If you answer no, please provide any additional details you think > appropriate. > > If you are listed as a document author or contributor please answer > the above by > responding to this email regardless of whether or not you are aware of > any relevant > IPR.  This document will not advance to the next stage until a > response has been > received from each author and listed contributor.  NOTE: THIS APPLIES > TO ALL > OF YOU LISTED IN THIS MESSAGE'S TO LINES. > > If you are on the WG email list or attend WG meetings but are not > listed as an author > or contributor, we remind you of your obligations under the IETF IPR > rules which > encourages you to notify the IETF if you are aware of IPR of others on > an IETF > contribution, or to refrain from participating in any contribution or > discussion related > to your undisclosed IPR. For more information, please see the RFCs > listed above > and http://trac.tools.ietf.org/group/iesg/trac/wiki/IntellectualProperty. > > Thank you, > NETMOD chairs -- David Ball --------------053CA9EA2D9671712126B119 Content-Type: text/html; charset=windows-1252 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit

No, I'm not aware of any IPR that applies to this draft.

David

On 10/07/2019 23:07, Kent Watsen wrote:
To each author and contributor listed on the "To" line.

In order to complete the Adoption poll, are you aware of any IPR that applies
to draft-ietf-netmod-sub-intf-vlan-model-05?  Please Reply-All to *this* email 
and state either:

"No, I'm not aware of any IPR that applies to this draft"
o
"Yes, I'm aware of IPR that applies to this draft"

If "yes", has this IPR been disclosed in compliance with IETF IPR rules
(see RFCs 3669, 5378 and 8179 for more details)?

If "yes" again, please state either:

"Yes, the IPR has been disclosed in compliance with IETF IPR rules"
or
"No, the IPR has not been disclosed"

If you answer no, please provide any additional details you think appropriate.

If you are listed as a document author or contributor please answer the above by
responding to this email regardless of whether or not you are aware of any relevant
IPR.  This document will not advance to the next stage until a response has been
received from each author and listed contributor.  NOTE: THIS APPLIES TO ALL
OF YOU LISTED IN THIS MESSAGE'S TO LINES.

If you are on the WG email list or attend WG meetings but are not listed as an author
or contributor, we remind you of your obligations under the IETF IPR rules which
encourages you to notify the IETF if you are aware of IPR of others on an IETF
contribution, or to refrain from participating in any contribution or discussion related
to your undisclosed IPR. For more information, please see the RFCs listed above
and http://trac.tools.ietf.org/group/iesg/trac/wiki/IntellectualProperty.

Thank you,
NETMOD chairs
-- 
David Ball
<daviball@cisco.com>
--------------053CA9EA2D9671712126B119-- From nobody Thu Jul 11 02:46:48 2019 Return-Path: X-Original-To: netmod@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: netmod@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1CC321203F2 for ; Thu, 11 Jul 2019 02:46:40 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.899 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.899 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_H2=-0.001, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (768-bit key) header.d=labn.net Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id v3vePxAoYr9d for ; Thu, 11 Jul 2019 02:46:36 -0700 (PDT) Received: from gproxy5-pub.mail.unifiedlayer.com (gproxy5-pub.mail.unifiedlayer.com [67.222.38.55]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 05FD812038A for ; Thu, 11 Jul 2019 02:46:36 -0700 (PDT) Received: from cmgw12.unifiedlayer.com (unknown [10.9.0.12]) by gproxy5.mail.unifiedlayer.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 423FA14044D for ; Thu, 11 Jul 2019 03:46:34 -0600 (MDT) Received: from box313.bluehost.com ([69.89.31.113]) by cmsmtp with ESMTP id lVeshoi3IaTLglVeshTZcR; Thu, 11 Jul 2019 03:46:34 -0600 X-Authority-Reason: nr=8 X-Authority-Analysis: $(_cmae_reason DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; q=dns/txt; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=labn.net; s=default; h=Content-Type:MIME-Version:Subject:References:In-Reply-To: Message-ID:Date:CC:To:From:Sender:Reply-To:Content-Transfer-Encoding: Content-ID:Content-Description:Resent-Date:Resent-From:Resent-Sender: Resent-To:Resent-Cc:Resent-Message-ID:List-Id:List-Help:List-Unsubscribe: List-Subscribe:List-Post:List-Owner:List-Archive; bh=r2W3cgxnBUq9X5ZYPrAaNdLjHIeGTOfEPCeGRHlxocA=; b=RdHa63kXKDD3FVvTLzsZ+dgSiK wMmAt+I+cf/kBPL6BKemsZN+btkm89YJxANMSa9p03qsgs1XX7DPwKP8a6dq2jj2TUxvRzM9z9Msp LSMImURPPXrx0L/5vtGuu2+Rw; Received: from pool-72-66-11-201.washdc.fios.verizon.net ([72.66.11.201]:47175 helo=[11.5.0.30]) by box313.bluehost.com with esmtpsa (TLSv1.2:ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256:128) (Exim 4.92) (envelope-from ) id 1hlVer-001fPb-OC; Thu, 11 Jul 2019 03:46:33 -0600 From: Lou Berger To: Kent Watsen CC: Date: Thu, 11 Jul 2019 05:46:30 -0400 Message-ID: <16be06d54f0.27ce.9b4188e636579690ba6c69f2c8a0f1fd@labn.net> In-Reply-To: <0100016bdee1bb2c-27331635-a343-4e8c-b8a7-2bb05a8c675b-000000@email.amazonses.com> References: <156167042338.21715.14230991158020374795@ietfa.amsl.com> <0100016b9add6136-2ad41038-eda3-4ebf-953f-187290bd678a-000000@email.amazonses.com> <0100016bdee1bb2c-27331635-a343-4e8c-b8a7-2bb05a8c675b-000000@email.amazonses.com> User-Agent: AquaMail/1.20.0-1462 (build: 102100002) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----------16be06d57b025fc27ce937f384" X-AntiAbuse: This header was added to track abuse, please include it with any abuse report X-AntiAbuse: Primary Hostname - box313.bluehost.com X-AntiAbuse: Original Domain - ietf.org X-AntiAbuse: Originator/Caller UID/GID - [47 12] / [47 12] X-AntiAbuse: Sender Address Domain - labn.net X-BWhitelist: no X-Source-IP: 72.66.11.201 X-Source-L: No X-Exim-ID: 1hlVer-001fPb-OC X-Source: X-Source-Args: X-Source-Dir: X-Source-Sender: pool-72-66-11-201.washdc.fios.verizon.net ([11.5.0.30]) [72.66.11.201]:47175 X-Source-Auth: lberger@labn.net X-Email-Count: 1 X-Source-Cap: bGFibm1vYmk7bGFibm1vYmk7Ym94MzEzLmJsdWVob3N0LmNvbQ== X-Local-Domain: yes Archived-At: Subject: Re: [netmod] I-D Action: draft-ietf-netmod-artwork-folding-06.txt X-BeenThere: netmod@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: NETMOD WG list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 11 Jul 2019 09:46:46 -0000 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------------16be06d57b025fc27ce937f384 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Hi Kent, Thanks for this. I think 4d is suggesting putting the rfc number in the comment block too, but having it where it is may be sufficient - you can add it now or see if there's a request for this later. I'll ask Ignas (our AD) if he wants it submitted now or once the ID gate reopens. Lou ---------- On July 10, 2019 10:34:54 PM Kent Watsen wrote: > Hi Lou (shepherd), > > The requested updates have been pushed to GitHub, as can be seen by the > commit diff: > https://github.com/netmod-wg/artwork-folding/commit/24a1b25abd4d33c2ac07f09b1daa8725b5061f4c > . > > -07 will be posted to Datatracker when the submission window reopens (or > sooner, if you request an exception). > > PS: Erik and I are listed as copyright holders, in addition to IETF Trust, > as seemed to be expected by (4c) in the link you provided. Please let me > know if any adjustments are needed. > > Thanks, > Kent (as an author) > > > >> On Jul 10, 2019, at 5:40 PM, Lou Berger wrote: >> >> Hi Kent, Authors, >> >> Sorry for the delay in processing this. WRT your comments, see below: >> >> On 6/27/2019 5:35 PM, Kent Watsen wrote: >>> >>> This update primarily regards the non-normative script: >>> >>> - renamed to "rfcfold" >>> - now only uses sed one-liners >>> - auto-detects if platforms `[g]sed` and `pcregrep` are present and >>> suitable, outputting an error message if not. >>> - cleans up the temporary directory if exits for any reason >>> - improved error message around the script not implementing the >>> force-fold logic. >>> >>> Special thanks to Eric Auerswald for supplying the pull requests >>> for much of the above! >>> >>> >>> Outside the updates to the script: >>> >>> - renamed 9.3: >>> OLD: Example Showing Smart Folding >>> NEW: Example Showing "Smart" Folding >>> >>> - renamed Appendix A: >>> OLD: POSIX Shell Script: rfcfold >>> NEW: POSIX Shell Script >>> >>> >>> My only comments are: >>> >>> 1) the script itself doesn't name itself "rfcfold" anywhere. >>> - albeit, the "name" attribute in the XML is set to "rfcfold". >> I think adding a name would be good -- but this is a non-blocking comment. >> >>> >>> 2) if the script is expected to be distributed, we may want/need to >>> add a copyright statement and/or a pointer to its GitHub repo. >>> >>> >> I believe the trust requires a specific license in all code segments in >> RFCs, see https://trustee.ietf.org/license-info/IETF-TLP-5.htm >> section 4. I think >> this needs to be added before the document can be submitted for publication. >> >> Thanks, >> >> Lou >> >> (as Shepherd) >> >> >> >>> Thanks, >>> Kent >>> >>> >>>> On Jun 27, 2019, at 5:20 PM, internet-drafts@ietf.org >>>> wrote: >>>> >>>> >>>> A New Internet-Draft is available from the on-line Internet-Drafts directories. >>>> This draft is a work item of the Network Modeling WG of the IETF. >>>> >>>> Title : Handling Long Lines in Inclusions in Internet-Drafts and RFCs >>>> Authors : Kent Watsen >>>> Adrian Farrel >>>> Qin Wu >>>> Filename : draft-ietf-netmod-artwork-folding-06.txt >>>> Pages : 26 >>>> Date : 2019-06-27 >>>> >>>> Abstract: >>>> This document defines two strategies for handling long lines in >>>> width-bounded text content. One strategy is based on the historic >>>> use of a single backslash ('\') character to indicate where line- >>>> folding has occurred, with the continuation occurring with the first >>>> non-space (' ') character on the next line. The second strategy >>>> extends the first strategy by adding a second backslash character to >>>> identify where the continuation begins and thereby able to handle >>>> cases not supported by the first strategy. Both strategies use a >>>> self-describing header enabling automated reconstitution of the >>>> original content. >>>> >>>> >>>> The IETF datatracker status page for this draft is: >>>> https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-netmod-artwork-folding/ >>>> >>>> >>>> There are also htmlized versions available at: >>>> https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-netmod-artwork-folding-06 >>>> >>>> https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/html/draft-ietf-netmod-artwork-folding-06 >>>> >>>> >>>> A diff from the previous version is available at: >>>> https://www.ietf.org/rfcdiff?url2=draft-ietf-netmod-artwork-folding-06 >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> Please note that it may take a couple of minutes from the time of submission >>>> until the htmlized version and diff are available at tools.ietf.org. >>>> >>>> Internet-Drafts are also available by anonymous FTP at: >>>> ftp://ftp.ietf.org/internet-drafts/ >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> netmod mailing list >>>> netmod@ietf.org >>>> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/netmod >>>> >>> >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> netmod mailing list >>> netmod@ietf.org >>> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/netmod >>> >> _______________________________________________ >> netmod mailing list >> netmod@ietf.org >> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/netmod > ------------16be06d57b025fc27ce937f384 Content-Type: text/html; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

Hi Kent,

Thanks for this.  I thin= k 4d is suggesting putting the rfc number in the comment block too, but hav= ing it where it is may be sufficient - you can add it now or see if there's= a request for this later.

I'll ask Ignas (our AD) if he= wants it submitted now or once the ID gate reopens.

Lou

On July 10, 2019 10:34:54 PM Kent Watsen <kent@watsen.net> w= rote:

Hi Lou (shepherd),

The requested updates have been pushed to GitHub, as can = be seen by the commit diff: h= ttps://github.com/netmod-wg/artwork-folding/commit/24a1b25abd4d33c2ac07f09b= 1daa8725b5061f4c.

-07 will be posted to Datatracker when the submission window reopens = (or sooner, if you request an exception).

PS: Erik and I are listed as copyright holders, in= addition to IETF Trust, as seemed to be expected by (4c) in the link you p= rovided.  Please let me know if any adjustments are needed. 

Thanks,
Kent (as an author)



On Jul 10, 2019, at 5:40 PM, Lou Berger <lberger@labn.net> wrote:

=20 =20

Hi Ken= t, Authors,

Sorry for the delay in processing this.  WRT you= r comments, see below:

On 6/27/2019 5:35 PM, Kent Watsen wrote:

This update primarily regards the non-normative script:

    - renamed to "rfcfold"
    - now only uses sed one-liners
    - auto-detects if platforms `[g]sed` an= d `pcregrep` are present and
       suitable, outputting an er= ror message if not.
    - cleans up the temporary directory if = exits for any reason
    - improved error message around the scr= ipt not implementing the
      force-fold logic.

    Special thanks to Eric Auerswald for su= pplying the pull requests 
    for much of the above!


Outside the updates to the script:

    - renamed 9.3:
          OLD: Example Showi= ng Smart Folding
          NEW: Example Showi= ng "Smart" Folding

    - renamed Appendix A:
          OLD: POSIX Shell S= cript: rfcfold
          NEW: POSIX Shell S= cript


My only comments are:

    1) the script itself doesn't name itsel= f "rfcfold" anywhere.
            - albeit, t= he "name" attribute in the XML is set to "rfcfold".

I think adding a name would be good -- but t= his is a non-blocking comment.


    2) if the script is expected to be dist= ributed, we may want/need to
        add a copyright statement= and/or a pointer to its GitHub repo.


I believe the trust requires a specific lice= nse in all code segments in RFCs, see https://trustee.ietf.org/license-info/IETF-TLP= -5.htm section 4.  I think this needs to be added before the document c= an be submitted for publication. 

Thanks,

Lou

(as Shepherd)


Thanks,
Kent


On Jun 27, 2019, at 5:20 PM, internet-draf= ts@ietf.org wrote:


A New Internet-Draft is available from the on-line Internet-Drafts directories.
This draft is a work item of the Network Modeling WG of the IETF.

       Title   = ;        : Handling Long Lines in Inclusions in Internet-Drafts and RFCs
       Authors  &nb= sp;      : Kent Watsen
          = ;            &n= bsp;  Adrian Farrel
          = ;            &n= bsp;  Qin Wu
= =09Filename        : draft-ietf-netm= od-artwork-folding-06.txt
= =09Pages           = ;: 26
= =09Date           = ; : 2019-06-27

Abstract:
  This document defines two strategies for handli= ng long lines in
  width-bounded text content.  One strategy = is based on the historic
  use of a single backslash ('\') character to in= dicate where line-
  folding has occurred, with the continuation occ= urring with the first
  non-space (' ') character on the next line. &nb= sp;The second strategy
  extends the first strategy by adding a second backslash character to
  identify where the continuation begins and ther= eby able to handle
  cases not supported by the first strategy. &nbs= p;Both strategies use a
  self-describing header enabling automated reconstitution of the
  original content.


The IETF datatracker status page for this draft is:
https://datatracke= r.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-netmod-artwork-folding/

There are also htmlized versions available at:
https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-ne= tmod-artwork-folding-06
https://datatracker.ietf.org/do= c/html/draft-ietf-netmod-artwork-folding-06

A diff from the previous version is available at:
https://www.ietf.org/rfcdiff?url2= =3Ddraft-ietf-netmod-artwork-folding-06


Please note that it may take a couple of minutes from the time of submission
until the htmlized version and diff are available at tools.ietf.org= .

Internet-Drafts are also available by anonymous FTP at:
ftp://ftp.ietf.org/internet-drafts/

_______________________________________________
netmod mailing list
netmod@ietf.org
https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/netmod<= /a>


______________________________=
_________________
netmod mailing list
netmo=
d@ietf.org
https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/netmod
_______________________________________________
netmod mailin= g list
netmod@i= etf.org
https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/netmod

------------16be06d57b025fc27ce937f384-- From nobody Thu Jul 11 03:45:14 2019 Return-Path: X-Original-To: netmod@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: netmod@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 421B112017D for ; Thu, 11 Jul 2019 03:45:12 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.897 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.897 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_NONE=0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id GyolRY4M-vzF for ; Thu, 11 Jul 2019 03:45:08 -0700 (PDT) Received: from trail.lhotka.name (trail.lhotka.name [77.48.224.143]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 588A81200E3 for ; Thu, 11 Jul 2019 03:45:07 -0700 (PDT) Received: by trail.lhotka.name (Postfix, from userid 109) id 15DA11820420; Thu, 11 Jul 2019 12:44:45 +0200 (CEST) Received: from localhost (nat-1.nic.cz [217.31.205.1]) by trail.lhotka.name (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id A569C182004A; Thu, 11 Jul 2019 12:44:23 +0200 (CEST) From: Ladislav Lhotka To: Jan =?utf-8?Q?Kundr=C3=A1t?= , netmod@ietf.org In-Reply-To: <8bcdad12-cec1-47b2-b8ad-bb8ab6d6783e@cesnet.cz> References: <8bcdad12-cec1-47b2-b8ad-bb8ab6d6783e@cesnet.cz> Mail-Followup-To: Jan =?utf-8?Q?Kundr=C3=A1t?= , netmod@ietf.org Date: Thu, 11 Jul 2019 12:44:43 +0200 Message-ID: <87lfx4df50.fsf@nic.cz> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Archived-At: Subject: Re: [netmod] draft-ietf-netmod-geo-location-01: an optional location info X-BeenThere: netmod@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: NETMOD WG list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 11 Jul 2019 10:45:12 -0000 Jan Kundr=C3=A1t writes: > Hi, I'm augmenting the ietf-network and ietf-network-topology=20 > from RFC 8345, trying to add geolocation information to the=20 > network nodes. I found your draft (thanks for it!),=20 > draft-ietf-netmod-geo-location-01. What I am struggling with is=20 > adding the geolocation as an *optional* element.=20 >=20 > When I try this YANG construct:=20 >=20 > augment "/nw:networks/nw:network/nw:node" {=20 > when "../nw:network-types/my-topo:topology-type";=20 > description "Optical elements within a network";=20 >=20 > uses geo:geo-location;=20 > }=20 >=20 > ....then my YANG instance data validator, libyang, complains=20 > when the location is missing: The "location" choice is defined as mandatory, so an instance of=20 one of the cases must be present. I don't know whether it is=20 necessary or not, but you can avoid it easily by overriding the=20 definition: uses geo:geo-location { refine geo-location/location { mandatory false; } } Ahoj, Lada =20 >=20 > err : Mandatory choice "location" missing a case branch.=20 > (/ietf-network:networks/network[network-id=3D'...']/node[node-id=3D'...']= /my-topo:location/geo-location)=20 >=20 > I can do the augmentation with one more container (a presence=20 > one) like this:=20 >=20 > augment "/nw:networks/nw:network/nw:node" {=20 > when "../nw:network-types/my-topo:topology-type";=20 > description "Optical elements within a network";=20 >=20 > container location {=20 > presence true; uses geo:geo-location;=20 > }=20=20=20=20=20 > }=20 >=20 > The resulting data then contain an extra level of nesting. I=20 > think that this is suboptimal.=20 >=20 > I have two questions:=20 >=20 > - Is that perhaps a bug in libyang? - If libyang is correct, is=20 > there a way of making the location info optional without that=20 > one more level of nesting?=20 >=20 > Also, the example does not work as-is because it's importing the=20 > module using a wrong name. Here's a tiny patch:=20 >=20 > index 7bd8622c..088621a1 100644 ---=20 > a/experimental/ietf-extracted-YANG-modules/ietf-uses-geo-location@2019-02= -02.yang=20 > +++=20 > b/experimental/ietf-extracted-YANG-modules/ietf-uses-geo-location@2019-02= -02.yang=20 > @@ -2,7 +2,7 @@ module ietf-uses-geo-location {=20 > namespace=20 > "urn:ietf:params:xml:ns:yang:ietf-uses-geo-location";=20 > prefix ugeo;=20 > - import geo-location { prefix geo; } + import=20 > ietf-geo-location { prefix geo; }=20 > organization "Empty Org"; contact "Example Author=20 > "; description "Example use of=20 > geo-location";=20 >=20 > The -00 version was correct in this, BTW.=20 >=20 > With kind regards, Jan=20 >=20 > _______________________________________________ netmod mailing=20 > list netmod@ietf.org=20 > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/netmod=20 --=20 Ladislav Lhotka Head, CZ.NIC Labs PGP Key ID: 0xB8F92B08A9F76C67 From nobody Thu Jul 11 06:44:57 2019 Return-Path: X-Original-To: netmod@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: netmod@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 47E2812026F; Thu, 11 Jul 2019 06:44:44 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -4.197 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-4.197 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-2.3, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_NONE=0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id AFQRMTDjepHg; Thu, 11 Jul 2019 06:44:42 -0700 (PDT) Received: from gabriel-vm-2.zfn.uni-bremen.de (gabriel-vm-2.zfn.uni-bremen.de [134.102.50.17]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher AECDH-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id E4F7D120119; Thu, 11 Jul 2019 06:44:41 -0700 (PDT) Received: from [192.168.217.110] (p5089AF0A.dip0.t-ipconnect.de [80.137.175.10]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by gabriel-vm-2.zfn.uni-bremen.de (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 45ky3C3xl0zyVZ; Thu, 11 Jul 2019 15:44:39 +0200 (CEST) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 11.5 \(3445.9.1\)) From: Carsten Bormann Date: Thu, 11 Jul 2019 15:44:38 +0200 Cc: Netconf , NETMOD WG , yot@ietf.org X-Mao-Original-Outgoing-Id: 584545476.604437-e9f458df7968ab826f10fd10c6a58847 Reply-To: core Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Message-Id: <5B9F7D96-8E1D-4B04-8F48-0BD165E28F73@tzi.org> To: core X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.3445.9.1) Archived-At: Subject: [netmod] =?utf-8?q?=F0=9F=94=94_CoRE_Working_Group_Adoption_call?= =?utf-8?q?_for_draft-veillette-core-yang-library-05=2Etxt?= X-BeenThere: netmod@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: NETMOD WG list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 11 Jul 2019 13:44:49 -0000 RFC 8525 defines a YANG data model for information about the YANG = modules, datastores, and datastore schemas used by a network management = server. This data model is based on string representations of YANG = identifiers. To be more useful in a constrained environment (CoRECONF/COMI), it is = useful to have a YANG data model that can employ the efficiency of SIDs = (draft-ietf-core-sid). draft-veillette-core-yang-library-05.txt = provides a straightforward translation of RFC 8525 to SID-based = identification, with some legacy support removed and some other = efficiencies added. This specification complements the three other = CoRECONF specifications draft-ietf-core-yang-cbor, draft-ietf-core-sid, = and draft-ietf-core-comi, which we hope to ship soon. This starts a one-week working group adoption call. This is a formal call for adoption of this draft as a WG document of the = CoRE WG. If you have read the draft and support adopting it, please say so. If you see a problem with adopting it as a WG document, please tell us. For both, remember that WG adoption does not mean that we already have = consensus on all the details(*), just that this is the right working = document to address the issue (and that we should address the issue in = the first place); you are encouraged to mention any issues that you = already know. This WGA call is CCed to the netconf and netmod working groups, as the = expertise about YANG modules is focused there, as well as the = yang-of-things non-WG mailing list. Please respond to core@ietf.org, or = exceptionally to core-chairs@ietf.org (for off-list comments). This formal WG adoption call runs until the end of July 18th. Gr=C3=BC=C3=9Fe, Carsten (*) say, is the module-set index really limited to an 8-bit number? From nobody Thu Jul 11 06:55:16 2019 Return-Path: X-Original-To: netmod@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: netmod@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 75CE5120044 for ; Thu, 11 Jul 2019 06:55:12 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -4.298 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-4.298 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-2.3, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_NONE=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (1024-bit key) header.d=cesnet.cz Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id C0WF_bdK9Gmj for ; Thu, 11 Jul 2019 06:55:10 -0700 (PDT) Received: from office2.cesnet.cz (office2.cesnet.cz [195.113.144.244]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id CEC2512002F for ; Thu, 11 Jul 2019 06:55:09 -0700 (PDT) Received: from localhost (2a01cb0580a402006114d55734de27b2.ipv6.abo.wanadoo.fr [IPv6:2a01:cb05:80a4:200:6114:d557:34de:27b2]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by office2.cesnet.cz (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 1CC60400068; Thu, 11 Jul 2019 15:54:57 +0200 (CEST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=cesnet.cz; s=office2; t=1562853303; bh=Aii9AskkBx8y9xXWU0g5qB5auGh6cjxEtJZCF5tHbCA=; h=From:To:Cc:Subject:Date:In-Reply-To:References; b=hxGfThfxqE3wnzt2JDT7XwC/Pa4DwLrxiNnOJR81iyWHJOwCbuHIQKQV9lw8Y44VB nh6nviY/cAn3D6c/c3zHS6kvIi9uaYGu6HGXnR/5qMX5TgligcJYlUPcv9OqTLEKXE XMJ23nVpFcTfH5j2i2SGcAl+xTF702KKHyQ7ch50= From: =?iso-8859-1?Q?Jan_Kundr=E1t?= To: Ladislav Lhotka Cc: Date: Thu, 11 Jul 2019 15:54:50 +0200 MIME-Version: 1.0 Message-ID: <8daa922c-194c-4a1f-9a4e-b2851ef58ed3@cesnet.cz> In-Reply-To: <87lfx4df50.fsf@nic.cz> References: <8bcdad12-cec1-47b2-b8ad-bb8ab6d6783e@cesnet.cz> <87lfx4df50.fsf@nic.cz> Organization: CESNET User-Agent: Trojita/v0.7-402-g90b417b1-dirty; Qt/5.13.0; xcb; Linux; Gentoo Base System release 2.4.1 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Archived-At: Subject: Re: [netmod] =?iso-8859-1?q?draft-ietf-netmod-geo-location-01=3A_an_?= =?iso-8859-1?q?optional_location_info?= X-BeenThere: netmod@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: NETMOD WG list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 11 Jul 2019 13:55:13 -0000 > The "location" choice is defined as mandatory, so an instance=20 > of one of the cases must be present. I don't know whether it is=20 > necessary or not, but you can avoid it easily by overriding the=20 > definition: Thanks for explaining this. I'll leave it to the draft authors to evaluate=20= whether an optional geolocation makes more sense than a hard-coded one. Diky Honza K. From peter.schneider@kontron.com Thu Jul 11 10:04:35 2019 Return-Path: X-Original-To: netmod@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: netmod@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6D9BD120106 for ; Thu, 11 Jul 2019 10:04:35 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: 0.138 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=0.138 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, HTML_TITLE_SUBJ_DIFF=2.036, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=no autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id G4aZbkIeC-2A for ; Thu, 11 Jul 2019 10:04:33 -0700 (PDT) Received: from skedge04.snt-world.com (skedge04.snt-world.com [91.208.41.69]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher AECDH-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 036AB12003E for ; Thu, 11 Jul 2019 10:04:32 -0700 (PDT) Received: from sntmail10s.snt-is.com (unknown [10.203.32.183]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by skedge04.snt-world.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 991E467A861 for ; Thu, 11 Jul 2019 19:04:26 +0200 (CEST) Received: from sntmail12r.snt-is.com (10.203.32.182) by sntmail10s.snt-is.com (10.203.32.183) with Microsoft SMTP Server (version=TLS1_2, cipher=TLS_ECDHE_RSA_WITH_AES_128_GCM_SHA256) id 15.1.1713.5; Thu, 11 Jul 2019 19:04:26 +0200 Received: from sntmail12r.snt-is.com ([fe80::e551:8750:7bba:3305]) by sntmail12r.snt-is.com ([fe80::e551:8750:7bba:3305%3]) with mapi id 15.01.1713.004; Thu, 11 Jul 2019 19:04:26 +0200 From: Peter Schneider To: "netmod@ietf.org" Thread-Topic: Question regarding RFC 8344 Thread-Index: AQHVOAqxOQ2eErtrGE+3EQjS430EUA== Date: Thu, 11 Jul 2019 17:04:26 +0000 Message-ID: Accept-Language: de-DE, en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: user-agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; Linux x86_64; rv:60.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/60.7.2 x-originating-ip: [10.228.0.139] x-c2processedorg: 51b406b7-48a2-4d03-b652-521f56ac89f3 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="_000_fa13ed97bd277d8e921b567521f5e739kontroncom_" MIME-Version: 1.0 X-SnT-MailScanner-Information: Please contact the ISP for more information X-SnT-MailScanner-ID: 991E467A861.A52F7 X-SnT-MailScanner: Not scanned: please contact your Internet E-Mail Service Provider for details X-SnT-MailScanner-SpamCheck: X-SnT-MailScanner-From: peter.schneider@kontron.com X-SnT-MailScanner-To: netmod@ietf.org Archived-At: X-Mailman-Approved-At: Sun, 14 Jul 2019 07:51:13 -0700 Subject: [netmod] Question regarding RFC 8344 X-BeenThere: netmod@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: NETMOD WG list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 12 Jul 2019 07:46:16 -0000 --_000_fa13ed97bd277d8e921b567521f5e739kontroncom_ Content-Type: text/plain; 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s=6gbrjpgwjskckoa6a5zn6fwqkn67xbtw; d=amazonses.com; t=1563134629; h=From:Content-Type:Mime-Version:Subject:Message-Id:References:To:Date:Feedback-ID; bh=SSqYv8ezSD1IvqrLilROT5bV+EiKZVWgt7Y7pZQuOQs=; b=S80MqKXtSY0DmMacuAAHruYX6hdr4h2THPvl5cAxso2Qm6rkw9qwNDcxY8tJYXU6 MrRx5HEVs2VmGCN2zs+MVymSkyF3l+e7u2WUOClKME4BPamYzw5qxEpM34bD/kpBV1m RdGL5mFIc3fwAlUmetxEDf/ubuOigj0DGu5jHrKE= From: Kent Watsen Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="Apple-Mail=_3CAB7517-98AF-4955-9DE9-4455901D0898" Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 12.4 \(3445.104.11\)) Message-ID: <0100016bf2159537-b6bc7eda-2958-4da3-a3f8-460a13f45b65-000000@email.amazonses.com> References: To: "netconf@ietf.org" , "netmod@ietf.org" Date: Sun, 14 Jul 2019 20:03:49 +0000 X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.3445.104.11) X-SES-Outgoing: 2019.07.14-54.240.8.64 Feedback-ID: 1.us-east-1.DKmIRZFhhsBhtmFMNikgwZUWVrODEw9qVcPhqJEI2DA=:AmazonSES Archived-At: Subject: [netmod] Fwd: New datatracker feature: Allow presenters to upload slides X-BeenThere: netmod@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: NETMOD WG list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sun, 14 Jul 2019 20:03:52 -0000 --Apple-Mail=_3CAB7517-98AF-4955-9DE9-4455901D0898 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii IETF 105 Presenters! Please note that, per below, *you* are now able to upload your own = slides to Datatracker. Please try to do this, the links to use are: For NETCONF: = https://datatracker.ietf.org/meeting/105/session/netconf = For NETMOD: https://datatracker.ietf.org/meeting/105/session/netmod = Thanks, Kent // as co-chair of both WGs > Begin forwarded message: >=20 > From: Robert Sparks > Subject: New datatracker feature: Allow presenters to upload slides > Date: July 12, 2019 at 11:51:56 AM EDT > To: IETF WG Chairs >=20 > Shortly after IETF 104, we added the ability for presenters to upload = slides and suggesting to the chairs that they be added to a session. >=20 > On the meeting materials page for a group (for example = ) anyone logged = in who is not a chair/secretary for the group gets a [Propose Slides] = button. >=20 > When they upload slides using that, the chairs will get email, and the = suggestions will appear in a new block on that page. >=20 > Chairs can then accept or reject each suggestion. >=20 > RjS >=20 --Apple-Mail=_3CAB7517-98AF-4955-9DE9-4455901D0898 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/html; charset=us-ascii IETF = 105 Presenters!

Please= note that, per below, *you* are now able to upload your own slides to = Datatracker.  Please try to do this, the links to use = are:

  =   For NETCONF: https://datatracker.ietf.org/meeting/105/session/netconf
    For NETMOD: https://datatracker.ietf.org/meeting/105/session/netmod

Thanks,
Kent  // as co-chair of both WGs



Begin = forwarded message:

From: = Robert Sparks <rjsparks@nostrum.com>
Subject: = New datatracker = feature: Allow presenters to upload slides
Date: = July 12, 2019 at 11:51:56 AM = EDT
To: = IETF WG Chairs <wgchairs@ietf.org>

Shortly after IETF 104, we added the ability for presenters = to upload slides and suggesting to the chairs that they be added to a = session.

On the meeting materials page for = a group (for example <https://datatracker.ietf.org/meeting/105/session/stir>) = anyone logged in who is not a chair/secretary for the group gets a = [Propose Slides] button.

When they upload = slides using that, the chairs will get email, and the suggestions will = appear in a new block on that page.

Chairs = can then accept or reject each suggestion.

RjS


= --Apple-Mail=_3CAB7517-98AF-4955-9DE9-4455901D0898-- From nobody Sun Jul 14 16:06:46 2019 Return-Path: X-Original-To: netmod@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: netmod@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id DCAC4120158; Sun, 14 Jul 2019 16:06:44 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.899 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.899 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id qf_Aq0qKGegr; Sun, 14 Jul 2019 16:06:42 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail.transpacket.com (s91205186171.blix.com [91.205.186.171]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher AECDH-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 498D1120134; Sun, 14 Jul 2019 16:06:38 -0700 (PDT) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by mail.transpacket.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6AD4F4801E76; Mon, 15 Jul 2019 01:06:36 +0200 (CEST) Received: from mail.transpacket.com ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (mail.transpacket.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10032) with ESMTP id MrN5xRXJ9MYm; Mon, 15 Jul 2019 01:06:36 +0200 (CEST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by mail.transpacket.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4320D4801E7C; Mon, 15 Jul 2019 01:06:36 +0200 (CEST) Received: from mail.transpacket.com ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (mail.transpacket.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10026) with ESMTP id r7AUjD8BbAyq; Mon, 15 Jul 2019 01:06:36 +0200 (CEST) Received: from [192.168.0.21] (cm-84.209.19.126.getinternet.no [84.209.19.126]) by mail.transpacket.com (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 1B6774801E0B; Mon, 15 Jul 2019 01:06:36 +0200 (CEST) To: Peter Schneider , "netmod@ietf.org" , draft-ietf-netmod-intf-ext-yang@ietf.org References: From: Vladimir Vassilev Message-ID: <40226c76-0f5a-2680-fd92-0ebfbdd5a8b8@transpacket.com> Date: Mon, 15 Jul 2019 01:06:35 +0200 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; Linux x86_64; rv:60.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/60.7.2 MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8; format=flowed Content-Language: en-US Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Archived-At: Subject: Re: [netmod] Question regarding RFC 8344 X-BeenThere: netmod@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: NETMOD WG list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sun, 14 Jul 2019 23:06:45 -0000 On 7/11/19 7:04 PM, Peter Schneider wrote: > Hi, > > I stumbled on an incompatibility between the IP Management YANG Module=20 > and the real world: > In the 'container ipv4', the leaf 'mtu' is declared as uint16 in the=20 > range 68..max, which is effective the range 68..65535, as noted in rfc=20 > 7950 . > On the other side, the default MTU size of the loopback interface in=20 > Linux is 65536 since several years. I don't think there is a problem with RFC 8344 since the ipv4 protocol=20 MTU can not exceed 65535 bytes (RFC 791). The maximum payload supported=20 by an interface which is the case with the default value of the lo=20 interface MTU on your Linux distribution (seems this can be configured=20 to up to 2147483647 octets at least on mine) has to be greater then the=20 MTUs of all protocols (ipv4,ipv6 etc.) supported on that interface but=20 they do not need to be equal. It is indeed recommended that the maximum=20 "length of the data field of a packet" is used as defined in RFC 894=20 e.g. 1500 for ethernet but you can choose or be constrained (like in=20 this case) to not do so. Currently there is no IETF RFC module that has data definition for=20 control of the interface MTU used as an upper limit for all protocol MTUs= . FYI there is a /interfaces/interface/l2-mtu leaf proposed in=20 draft-ietf-netmod-intf-ext-yang-07 where an uint16 type should probably=20 be changed to uint32. IMO=C2=A0 "/interfaces/interface/mtu" leaf is needed that actually=20 corresponds to the maximum length of the data field of a packet and=20 already referred to in popular software like Linux as "interface MTU"=20 (there is no standard this is based on just running software as far as I=20 am aware) should be added in addition to the l2-mtu leaf. Then in your=20 case this leaf would be configured to 65536 for the lo interface while=20 the /interfaces/interface/ipv4/mtu can be less then that. / Vladimir > Depending on the used netconf client, the client either reports=20 > (correctly) an error when getting / configuring the loopback=20 > interface, or silently reduces /raises the shown resp. configured=20 > value for the mtu. > > Are there any statements available on this issue? > > Kind Regards, > > Peter Schneider > --=20 > Email Signature of href=3D"mailto:peter.schneider@kontron.com">peter.schneider@kontron.com= =20 > *Peter Schneider* > Software Engineer R&D > *Kontron* > Heinrich-Barth-Strasse 1-1a | 66115 Saarbr=C3=BCcken | Germany > P: +49 681 95916 206 > _peter.schneider@kontron.com_ > > Website | Blog |=20 > Twitter | LinkedIn=20 > | YouTube=20 > | Facebook=20 > > > *Kontron Europe GmbH* > Die gesetzlichen Pflichtangaben finden Sie hier=20 > . > Please find our mandatory legal statements hier=20 > . > Mit dem =C3=96ffnen dieses E-Mails stimmen Sie Kontrons Richtlinien zur= =20 > elektronischen Kommunikation=20 > zu. > By opening this email you are agreeing to Kontron's Electronic=20 > Communications Policy=20 > > > _______________________________________________ > netmod mailing list > netmod@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/netmod From nobody Mon Jul 15 14:42:31 2019 Return-Path: X-Original-To: netmod@ietf.org Delivered-To: netmod@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from ietfa.amsl.com (localhost [IPv6:::1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 16F0E120153; Mon, 15 Jul 2019 14:42:12 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: internet-drafts@ietf.org To: Cc: netmod@ietf.org X-Test-IDTracker: no X-IETF-IDTracker: 6.98.3 Auto-Submitted: auto-generated Precedence: bulk Reply-To: netmod@ietf.org Message-ID: <156322693197.27105.3412105964430785934@ietfa.amsl.com> Date: Mon, 15 Jul 2019 14:42:12 -0700 Archived-At: Subject: [netmod] I-D Action: draft-ietf-netmod-yang-data-ext-04.txt X-BeenThere: netmod@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 List-Id: NETMOD WG list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 15 Jul 2019 21:42:18 -0000 A New Internet-Draft is available from the on-line Internet-Drafts directories. This draft is a work item of the Network Modeling WG of the IETF. Title : YANG Data Structure Extensions Authors : Andy Bierman Martin Bjorklund Kent Watsen Filename : draft-ietf-netmod-yang-data-ext-04.txt Pages : 16 Date : 2019-07-15 Abstract: This document describes YANG mechanisms for defining abstract data structures with YANG. The IETF datatracker status page for this draft is: https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-netmod-yang-data-ext/ There are also htmlized versions available at: https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-netmod-yang-data-ext-04 https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/html/draft-ietf-netmod-yang-data-ext-04 A diff from the previous version is available at: https://www.ietf.org/rfcdiff?url2=draft-ietf-netmod-yang-data-ext-04 Please note that it may take a couple of minutes from the time of submission until the htmlized version and diff are available at tools.ietf.org. Internet-Drafts are also available by anonymous FTP at: ftp://ftp.ietf.org/internet-drafts/ From nobody Tue Jul 16 20:52:59 2019 Return-Path: X-Original-To: netmod@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: netmod@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id BA3801200DB for ; Tue, 16 Jul 2019 20:52:57 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -4.2 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-4.2 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-2.3, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id ZjwjgQXVn93X for ; Tue, 16 Jul 2019 20:52:56 -0700 (PDT) Received: from rfc-editor.org (rfc-editor.org [4.31.198.49]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher AECDH-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 223E012000F for ; Tue, 16 Jul 2019 20:52:56 -0700 (PDT) Received: by rfc-editor.org (Postfix, from userid 30) id 59763B81032; Tue, 16 Jul 2019 20:52:52 -0700 (PDT) To: mbj@tail-f.com, ibagdona@gmail.com, warren@kumari.net, joelja@bogus.com, kent+ietf@watsen.net, lberger@labn.net X-PHP-Originating-Script: 30:errata_mail_lib.php From: RFC Errata System Cc: bill.wu@huawei.com, netmod@ietf.org, rfc-editor@rfc-editor.org Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Message-Id: <20190717035252.59763B81032@rfc-editor.org> Date: Tue, 16 Jul 2019 20:52:52 -0700 (PDT) Archived-At: Subject: [netmod] [Technical Errata Reported] RFC7950 (5784) X-BeenThere: netmod@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: NETMOD WG list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 17 Jul 2019 03:52:58 -0000 The following errata report has been submitted for RFC7950, "The YANG 1.1 Data Modeling Language". -------------------------------------- You may review the report below and at: https://www.rfc-editor.org/errata/eid5784 -------------------------------------- Type: Technical Reported by: Qin WU Section: 9.3.2 Original Text ------------- Leading and trailing zeros are prohibited, subject to the rule that there MUST be at least one digit before and after the decimal point. The value zero is represented as "0.0". Corrected Text -------------- Leading zeros before the first digit and trailing zeros after the last digit are prohibited, subject to the rule that there MUST be at least one digit before and after the decimal point. The value zero is represented as "0.0". Notes ----- Based on the rule in the orginal text, the value such as "0.5","0.0" is illegal. So I think the intention of the original text is to make sure the leading zeros before the first digit and the trailing zero after the last digit are prohibited. Instructions: ------------- This erratum is currently posted as "Reported". If necessary, please use "Reply All" to discuss whether it should be verified or rejected. When a decision is reached, the verifying party can log in to change the status and edit the report, if necessary. -------------------------------------- RFC7950 (draft-ietf-netmod-rfc6020bis-14) -------------------------------------- Title : The YANG 1.1 Data Modeling Language Publication Date : August 2016 Author(s) : M. Bjorklund, Ed. Category : PROPOSED STANDARD Source : Network Modeling Area : Operations and Management Stream : IETF Verifying Party : IESG From nobody Wed Jul 17 00:50:28 2019 Return-Path: X-Original-To: netmod@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: netmod@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8928812009C for ; Wed, 17 Jul 2019 00:50:26 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.897 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.897 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_NONE=0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id Sz1fbBOZ4HoS for ; Wed, 17 Jul 2019 00:50:23 -0700 (PDT) Received: from atlas5.jacobs-university.de (atlas5.jacobs-university.de [212.201.44.20]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ADH-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 9151B120140 for ; Wed, 17 Jul 2019 00:50:23 -0700 (PDT) Received: from localhost (demetrius5.irc-it.jacobs-university.de [10.70.0.222]) by atlas5.jacobs-university.de (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6E2F74C7; Wed, 17 Jul 2019 09:50:21 +0200 (CEST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at jacobs-university.de Received: from atlas5.jacobs-university.de ([10.70.0.198]) by localhost (demetrius5.jacobs-university.de [10.70.0.222]) (amavisd-new, port 10032) with ESMTP id XB-_oMW2E5ji; Wed, 17 Jul 2019 09:50:21 +0200 (CEST) Received: from hermes.jacobs-university.de (hermes.jacobs-university.de [212.201.44.23]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (Client CN "hermes.jacobs-university.de", Issuer "DFN-Verein Global Issuing CA" (verified OK)) by atlas5.jacobs-university.de (Postfix) with ESMTPS; Wed, 17 Jul 2019 09:50:21 +0200 (CEST) Received: from localhost (demetrius5.irc-it.jacobs-university.de [10.70.0.222]) by hermes.jacobs-university.de (Postfix) with ESMTP id 48FB02012C; Wed, 17 Jul 2019 09:50:21 +0200 (CEST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at jacobs-university.de Received: from hermes.jacobs-university.de ([212.201.44.23]) by localhost (demetrius5.jacobs-university.de [10.70.0.222]) (amavisd-new, port 10028) with ESMTP id tX4nbabfAYGy; Wed, 17 Jul 2019 09:50:20 +0200 (CEST) Received: from exchange.jacobs-university.de (SXCHMB01.jacobs.jacobs-university.de [10.70.0.120]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (Client CN "exchange.jacobs-university.de", Issuer "DFN-Verein Global Issuing CA" (verified OK)) by hermes.jacobs-university.de (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 5612220129; Wed, 17 Jul 2019 09:50:20 +0200 (CEST) Received: from anna.localdomain (10.50.218.117) by sxchmb03.jacobs.jacobs-university.de (10.70.0.155) with Microsoft SMTP Server (version=TLS1_2, cipher=TLS_ECDHE_RSA_WITH_AES_256_GCM_SHA384) id 15.1.1713.5; Wed, 17 Jul 2019 09:50:19 +0200 Received: by anna.localdomain (Postfix, from userid 501) id 474EE23378F; Wed, 17 Jul 2019 09:50:18 +0200 (CEST) Date: Wed, 17 Jul 2019 09:50:18 +0200 From: Juergen Schoenwaelder To: RFC Errata System CC: , , , , , , Message-ID: <20190717075018.qrsr3k3c2rbsdzzl@anna.jacobs.jacobs-university.de> Reply-To: Juergen Schoenwaelder Mail-Followup-To: RFC Errata System , mbj@tail-f.com, ibagdona@gmail.com, warren@kumari.net, joelja@bogus.com, kent+ietf@watsen.net, lberger@labn.net, netmod@ietf.org References: <20190717035252.59763B81032@rfc-editor.org> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <20190717035252.59763B81032@rfc-editor.org> User-Agent: NeoMutt/20180716 X-ClientProxiedBy: SXCHMB02.jacobs.jacobs-university.de (10.70.0.121) To sxchmb03.jacobs.jacobs-university.de (10.70.0.155) Archived-At: Subject: Re: [netmod] [Technical Errata Reported] RFC7950 (5784) X-BeenThere: netmod@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: NETMOD WG list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 17 Jul 2019 07:50:27 -0000 I do not see why the original text makes 0.5 or 0.0 illegal. /js On Tue, Jul 16, 2019 at 08:52:52PM -0700, RFC Errata System wrote: > The following errata report has been submitted for RFC7950, > "The YANG 1.1 Data Modeling Language". > > -------------------------------------- > You may review the report below and at: > https://www.rfc-editor.org/errata/eid5784 > > -------------------------------------- > Type: Technical > Reported by: Qin WU > > Section: 9.3.2 > > Original Text > ------------- > Leading and trailing zeros are prohibited, subject to the rule that > there MUST be at least one digit before and after the decimal point. > The value zero is represented as "0.0". > > > > > Corrected Text > -------------- > Leading zeros before the first digit and trailing zeros after the > last digit are prohibited, subject to the rule that there MUST be > at least one digit before and after the decimal point. The value > zero is represented as "0.0". > > Notes > ----- > Based on the rule in the orginal text, the value such as "0.5","0.0" is illegal. So I think the intention of the original text is to make sure the leading zeros before the first digit and the trailing zero after the last digit are prohibited. > > Instructions: > ------------- > This erratum is currently posted as "Reported". If necessary, please > use "Reply All" to discuss whether it should be verified or > rejected. When a decision is reached, the verifying party > can log in to change the status and edit the report, if necessary. > > -------------------------------------- > RFC7950 (draft-ietf-netmod-rfc6020bis-14) > -------------------------------------- > Title : The YANG 1.1 Data Modeling Language > Publication Date : August 2016 > Author(s) : M. Bjorklund, Ed. > Category : PROPOSED STANDARD > Source : Network Modeling > Area : Operations and Management > Stream : IETF > Verifying Party : IESG > > _______________________________________________ > netmod mailing list > netmod@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/netmod -- Juergen Schoenwaelder Jacobs University Bremen gGmbH Phone: +49 421 200 3587 Campus Ring 1 | 28759 Bremen | Germany Fax: +49 421 200 3103 From nobody Wed Jul 17 01:11:57 2019 Return-Path: X-Original-To: netmod@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: netmod@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8E4401201D0 for ; Wed, 17 Jul 2019 01:11:55 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -4.2 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-4.2 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-2.3, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id JWaU4GpOrWYN for ; Wed, 17 Jul 2019 01:11:52 -0700 (PDT) Received: from huawei.com (lhrrgout.huawei.com [185.176.76.210]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id DE2AC12009C for ; Wed, 17 Jul 2019 01:11:51 -0700 (PDT) Received: from lhreml709-cah.china.huawei.com (unknown [172.18.7.107]) by Forcepoint Email with ESMTP id 2BC3C7BC49E36FE03E55; Wed, 17 Jul 2019 09:11:50 +0100 (IST) Received: from lhreml702-chm.china.huawei.com (10.201.108.51) by lhreml709-cah.china.huawei.com (10.201.108.32) with Microsoft SMTP Server (TLS) id 14.3.408.0; Wed, 17 Jul 2019 09:11:49 +0100 Received: from lhreml702-chm.china.huawei.com (10.201.108.51) by lhreml702-chm.china.huawei.com (10.201.108.51) with Microsoft SMTP Server (version=TLS1_2, cipher=TLS_ECDHE_RSA_WITH_AES_128_CBC_SHA256_P256) id 15.1.1713.5; Wed, 17 Jul 2019 09:11:49 +0100 Received: from NKGEML414-HUB.china.huawei.com (10.98.56.75) by lhreml702-chm.china.huawei.com (10.201.108.51) with Microsoft SMTP Server (version=TLS1_0, cipher=TLS_ECDHE_RSA_WITH_AES_128_CBC_SHA_P256) id 15.1.1713.5 via Frontend Transport; Wed, 17 Jul 2019 09:11:49 +0100 Received: from NKGEML513-MBS.china.huawei.com ([169.254.2.51]) by nkgeml414-hub.china.huawei.com ([10.98.56.75]) with mapi id 14.03.0439.000; Wed, 17 Jul 2019 16:11:41 +0800 From: Qin Wu To: Juergen Schoenwaelder , "RFC Errata System" CC: "ibagdona@gmail.com" , "netmod@ietf.org" , "warren@kumari.net" Thread-Topic: [netmod] [Technical Errata Reported] RFC7950 (5784) Thread-Index: AdU8doyhHrS1rVOeTsCfFxWy8rpUWA== Date: Wed, 17 Jul 2019 08:11:41 +0000 Message-ID: Accept-Language: zh-CN, en-US Content-Language: zh-CN X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-originating-ip: [10.134.31.203] Content-Type: text/plain; charset="gb2312" Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-CFilter-Loop: Reflected Archived-At: Subject: Re: [netmod] [Technical Errata Reported] RFC7950 (5784) X-BeenThere: netmod@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: NETMOD WG list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 17 Jul 2019 08:11:56 -0000 V2hhdCBhYm91dCAiMC41MDAwMDAwMCI/IGJhc2VkIG9uIG9yaWdpbmFsIHRleHQsIGlzIGl0IGxl Z2FsIG9yIGlsbGVnYWw/DQpJdCBzZWVtIG9yaWdpbmFsIHRleHQgZXhjbHVkZSB0aGUgY2FzZSB3 aGVyZSBvbmUgZGlnaXQgYmVmb3JlIG9yIGFmdGVyIHRoZSBkZWNpbWFsIHBvaW50Pw0KDQotUWlu DQotLS0tLdPKvP7Urbz+LS0tLS0NCreivP7IyzogbmV0bW9kIFttYWlsdG86bmV0bW9kLWJvdW5j ZXNAaWV0Zi5vcmddILT6se0gSnVlcmdlbiBTY2hvZW53YWVsZGVyDQq3osvNyrG85DogMjAxOcTq N9TCMTfI1SAxNTo1MA0KytW8/sjLOiBSRkMgRXJyYXRhIFN5c3RlbSA8cmZjLWVkaXRvckByZmMt ZWRpdG9yLm9yZz4NCrOty806IGliYWdkb25hQGdtYWlsLmNvbTsgbmV0bW9kQGlldGYub3JnOyB3 YXJyZW5Aa3VtYXJpLm5ldA0K1vfM4jogUmU6IFtuZXRtb2RdIFtUZWNobmljYWwgRXJyYXRhIFJl 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aWxtYW4vbGlzdGluZm8vbmV0bW9kDQoNCi0tIA0KSnVlcmdlbiBTY2hvZW53YWVsZGVyICAgICAg ICAgICBKYWNvYnMgVW5pdmVyc2l0eSBCcmVtZW4gZ0dtYkgNClBob25lOiArNDkgNDIxIDIwMCAz NTg3ICAgICAgICAgQ2FtcHVzIFJpbmcgMSB8IDI4NzU5IEJyZW1lbiB8IEdlcm1hbnkNCkZheDog ICArNDkgNDIxIDIwMCAzMTAzICAgICAgICAgPGh0dHBzOi8vd3d3LmphY29icy11bml2ZXJzaXR5 LmRlLz4NCg0KX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX18N Cm5ldG1vZCBtYWlsaW5nIGxpc3QNCm5ldG1vZEBpZXRmLm9yZw0KaHR0cHM6Ly93d3cuaWV0Zi5v cmcvbWFpbG1hbi9saXN0aW5mby9uZXRtb2QNCg== From nobody Wed Jul 17 01:46:06 2019 Return-Path: X-Original-To: netmod@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: netmod@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4718512060E for ; Wed, 17 Jul 2019 01:46:05 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.897 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.897 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, 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from hermes.jacobs-university.de (hermes.jacobs-university.de [212.201.44.23]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (Client CN "hermes.jacobs-university.de", Issuer "DFN-Verein Global Issuing CA" (verified OK)) by atlas5.jacobs-university.de (Postfix) with ESMTPS; Wed, 17 Jul 2019 10:46:01 +0200 (CEST) Received: from localhost (demetrius5.irc-it.jacobs-university.de [10.70.0.222]) by hermes.jacobs-university.de (Postfix) with ESMTP id 472362012C; Wed, 17 Jul 2019 10:46:01 +0200 (CEST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at jacobs-university.de Received: from hermes.jacobs-university.de ([212.201.44.23]) by localhost (demetrius5.jacobs-university.de [10.70.0.222]) (amavisd-new, port 10028) with ESMTP id AifGgtGIK0c7; Wed, 17 Jul 2019 10:46:00 +0200 (CEST) Received: from exchange.jacobs-university.de (sxchmb03.jacobs.jacobs-university.de [10.70.0.155]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (Client CN "exchange.jacobs-university.de", Issuer "DFN-Verein Global Issuing CA" (verified OK)) by hermes.jacobs-university.de (Postfix) with ESMTPS id A4AE720129; Wed, 17 Jul 2019 10:45:59 +0200 (CEST) Received: from anna.localdomain (10.50.218.117) by sxchmb03.jacobs.jacobs-university.de (10.70.0.155) with Microsoft SMTP Server (version=TLS1_2, cipher=TLS_ECDHE_RSA_WITH_AES_256_GCM_SHA384) id 15.1.1713.5; Wed, 17 Jul 2019 10:45:59 +0200 Received: by anna.localdomain (Postfix, from userid 501) id 71DAC234597; Wed, 17 Jul 2019 10:45:57 +0200 (CEST) Date: Wed, 17 Jul 2019 10:45:56 +0200 From: Juergen Schoenwaelder To: Qin Wu CC: RFC Errata System , "ibagdona@gmail.com" , "netmod@ietf.org" , "warren@kumari.net" Message-ID: <20190717084556.mq5w5jrjvnmfebh6@anna.jacobs.jacobs-university.de> Reply-To: Juergen Schoenwaelder Mail-Followup-To: Qin Wu , RFC Errata System , "ibagdona@gmail.com" , "netmod@ietf.org" , "warren@kumari.net" References: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: User-Agent: NeoMutt/20180716 X-ClientProxiedBy: SXCHMB02.jacobs.jacobs-university.de (10.70.0.121) To sxchmb03.jacobs.jacobs-university.de (10.70.0.155) X-Clacks-Overhead: GNU Terry Pratchett Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Archived-At: Subject: Re: [netmod] [Technical Errata Reported] RFC7950 (5784) X-BeenThere: netmod@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: NETMOD WG list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 17 Jul 2019 08:46:05 -0000 The text starts with the general case and says "Leading and trailing zeros are prohibited", which seems to cover 0.50000000. The text then handles the special rule that there needs to be at least one digit before and after the decimal point. I think all is fine. /js On Wed, Jul 17, 2019 at 08:11:41AM +0000, Qin Wu wrote: > What about "0.50000000"? based on original text, is it legal or illegal= ? > It seem original text exclude the case where one digit before or after = the decimal point? >=20 > -Qin > -----=E9=82=AE=E4=BB=B6=E5=8E=9F=E4=BB=B6----- > =E5=8F=91=E4=BB=B6=E4=BA=BA: netmod [mailto:netmod-bounces@ietf.org] =E4= =BB=A3=E8=A1=A8 Juergen Schoenwaelder > =E5=8F=91=E9=80=81=E6=97=B6=E9=97=B4: 2019=E5=B9=B47=E6=9C=8817=E6=97=A5= 15:50 > =E6=94=B6=E4=BB=B6=E4=BA=BA: RFC Errata System > =E6=8A=84=E9=80=81: ibagdona@gmail.com; netmod@ietf.org; warren@kumari.= net > =E4=B8=BB=E9=A2=98: Re: [netmod] [Technical Errata Reported] RFC7950 (5= 784) >=20 > I do not see why the original text makes 0.5 or 0.0 illegal. >=20 > /js >=20 > On Tue, Jul 16, 2019 at 08:52:52PM -0700, RFC Errata System wrote: > > The following errata report has been submitted for RFC7950, "The YANG= =20 > > 1.1 Data Modeling Language". > >=20 > > -------------------------------------- > > You may review the report below and at: > > https://www.rfc-editor.org/errata/eid5784 > >=20 > > -------------------------------------- > > Type: Technical > > Reported by: Qin WU > >=20 > > Section: 9.3.2 > >=20 > > Original Text > > ------------- > > Leading and trailing zeros are prohibited, subject to the rule that=20 > > there MUST be at least one digit before and after the decimal point. > > The value zero is represented as "0.0". > >=20 > >=20 > >=20 > >=20 > > Corrected Text > > -------------- > > Leading zeros before the first digit and trailing zeros after the las= t=20 > > digit are prohibited, subject to the rule that there MUST be at least= =20 > > one digit before and after the decimal point. The value zero is=20 > > represented as "0.0". > >=20 > > Notes > > ----- > > Based on the rule in the orginal text, the value such as "0.5","0.0" = is illegal. So I think the intention of the original text is to make sure= the leading zeros before the first digit and the trailing zero after the= last digit are prohibited. > >=20 > > Instructions: > > ------------- > > This erratum is currently posted as "Reported". If necessary, please=20 > > use "Reply All" to discuss whether it should be verified or rejected.= =20 > > When a decision is reached, the verifying party can log in to change=20 > > the status and edit the report, if necessary. > >=20 > > -------------------------------------- > > RFC7950 (draft-ietf-netmod-rfc6020bis-14) > > -------------------------------------- > > Title : The YANG 1.1 Data Modeling Language > > Publication Date : August 2016 > > Author(s) : M. Bjorklund, Ed. > > Category : PROPOSED STANDARD > > Source : Network Modeling > > Area : Operations and Management > > Stream : IETF > > Verifying Party : IESG > >=20 > > _______________________________________________ > > netmod mailing list > > netmod@ietf.org > > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/netmod >=20 > --=20 > Juergen Schoenwaelder Jacobs University Bremen gGmbH > Phone: +49 421 200 3587 Campus Ring 1 | 28759 Bremen | Germany > Fax: +49 421 200 3103 >=20 > _______________________________________________ > netmod mailing list > netmod@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/netmod --=20 Juergen Schoenwaelder Jacobs University Bremen gGmbH Phone: +49 421 200 3587 Campus Ring 1 | 28759 Bremen | Germany Fax: +49 421 200 3103 From nobody Wed Jul 17 02:00:28 2019 Return-Path: X-Original-To: netmod@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: netmod@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id E967E12062D for ; Wed, 17 Jul 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NKGEML412-HUB.china.huawei.com (10.98.56.73) by lhreml704-cah.china.huawei.com (10.201.108.45) with Microsoft SMTP Server (TLS) id 14.3.408.0; Wed, 17 Jul 2019 10:00:19 +0100 Received: from NKGEML513-MBS.china.huawei.com ([169.254.2.51]) by nkgeml412-hub.china.huawei.com ([10.98.56.73]) with mapi id 14.03.0439.000; Wed, 17 Jul 2019 16:58:32 +0800 From: Qin Wu To: Juergen Schoenwaelder CC: RFC Errata System , "ibagdona@gmail.com" , "netmod@ietf.org" , "warren@kumari.net" Thread-Topic: [netmod] [Technical Errata Reported] RFC7950 (5784) Thread-Index: AdU8doyhHrS1rVOeTsCfFxWy8rpUWP//hOMA//94NAA= Date: Wed, 17 Jul 2019 08:58:32 +0000 Message-ID: References: <20190717084556.mq5w5jrjvnmfebh6@anna.jacobs.jacobs-university.de> In-Reply-To: <20190717084556.mq5w5jrjvnmfebh6@anna.jacobs.jacobs-university.de> Accept-Language: zh-CN, en-US Content-Language: zh-CN X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-originating-ip: [10.134.31.203] Content-Type: multipart/alternative; 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MX:1; received-spf: None (protection.outlook.com: cisco.com does not designate permitted sender hosts) x-ms-exchange-senderadcheck: 1 x-microsoft-antispam-message-info: jwcFPoZd59VqJHGmri/UaHBnjWHDfPLtr2J8v3ys5g4Pj+1voy/WfWof7NSifEkIzeXiF4lAHRq8vXJO08AcXuKufoJm24vEL713sAylYAuaeUC5M+e3JFIHH08uLyJlQfvzfpUyf1q+CyTNk+ZLAphUcPlFN5/uKDgC6JpvmZYVH0nhVYpJ9zzG5/Vvby/VzXoKvKxm3beYWF7pSe1l/bAfqOit1OAiu2hqIurPaCYrg7bvbu1xX6HrrFsyFa8KZ5CFmMZCEMy08lrFrZpEen1zd+HCLZoHklDAIDyIU5uR2CR2MnyiK/s0QWQ/J7KFQvlBaHyCyZU2eAsbUgNIwL6IL3+l9mjgrPZmhQqwp+BlPnCur+3Z2OoW7AaeuxRmywlz3AOBRGQJaa8c2lpRe/BB2ztKiMJFAU5nD/Xo+T0= Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="_000_BYAPR11MB2631065E176E50E510A98C14B5C90BYAPR11MB2631namp_" MIME-Version: 1.0 X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-Network-Message-Id: 0bb0e70c-21c2-4b28-9e9c-08d70a97efd1 X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-originalarrivaltime: 17 Jul 2019 09:19:57.4447 (UTC) X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-fromentityheader: Hosted X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-id: 5ae1af62-9505-4097-a69a-c1553ef7840e X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-mailboxtype: HOSTED X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-userprincipalname: rwilton@cisco.com X-MS-Exchange-Transport-CrossTenantHeadersStamped: BYAPR11MB3432 X-OriginatorOrg: cisco.com X-Outbound-SMTP-Client: 173.36.7.13, xch-aln-003.cisco.com X-Outbound-Node: rcdn-core-9.cisco.com Archived-At: Subject: Re: [netmod] =?utf-8?b?562U5aSNOiAgW1RlY2huaWNhbCBFcnJhdGEgUmVwb3J0?= =?utf-8?q?ed=5D_RFC7950_=285784=29?= X-BeenThere: netmod@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: NETMOD WG list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 17 Jul 2019 09:20:07 -0000 --_000_BYAPR11MB2631065E176E50E510A98C14B5C90BYAPR11MB2631namp_ Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 SGkgUWluLA0KDQpJIGFsc28gZmluZCB0aGUgY3VycmVudCBSRkMgdGV4dCBxdWl0ZSB1bmRlcnN0 YW5kYWJsZSBhbmQgY29ycmVjdC4NCg0KVGhlIOKAnGFuZOKAnSBpcyByZXF1aXJlZCB0byBkaXNh 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"warren@kumari.net" , "netmod@ietf.org" , RFC Errata System Thread-Topic: [netmod] RE: [Technical Errata Reported] RFC7950 (5784) Thread-Index: AdU8g0W6PP+jAqE4R22+KEI23+9T5A== Date: Wed, 17 Jul 2019 09:42:38 +0000 Message-ID: Accept-Language: zh-CN, en-US Content-Language: zh-CN X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-originating-ip: [10.134.31.203] Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="_000_B8F9A780D330094D99AF023C5877DABAA4A009D9nkgeml513mbschi_" MIME-Version: 1.0 X-CFilter-Loop: Reflected Archived-At: Subject: Re: [netmod] [Technical Errata Reported] RFC7950 (5784) X-BeenThere: netmod@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: NETMOD WG list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 17 Jul 2019 09:45:52 -0000 --_000_B8F9A780D330094D99AF023C5877DABAA4A009D9nkgeml513mbschi_ Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 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([212.201.44.23]) by localhost (demetrius5.jacobs-university.de [10.70.0.222]) (amavisd-new, port 10028) with ESMTP id SneMWoVMockN; Wed, 17 Jul 2019 12:28:43 +0200 (CEST) Received: from exchange.jacobs-university.de (sxchmb04.jacobs.jacobs-university.de [10.70.0.156]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (Client CN "exchange.jacobs-university.de", Issuer "DFN-Verein Global Issuing CA" (verified OK)) by hermes.jacobs-university.de (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 8A6612012E; Wed, 17 Jul 2019 12:28:42 +0200 (CEST) Received: from anna.localdomain (10.50.218.117) by sxchmb03.jacobs.jacobs-university.de (10.70.0.155) with Microsoft SMTP Server (version=TLS1_2, cipher=TLS_ECDHE_RSA_WITH_AES_256_GCM_SHA384) id 15.1.1713.5; Wed, 17 Jul 2019 12:28:41 +0200 Received: by anna.localdomain (Postfix, from userid 501) id E060C2349CF; Wed, 17 Jul 2019 12:28:39 +0200 (CEST) Date: Wed, 17 Jul 2019 12:28:38 +0200 From: Juergen Schoenwaelder To: Qin Wu CC: "Rob Wilton (rwilton)" , "ibagdona@gmail.com" , "warren@kumari.net" , "netmod@ietf.org" , RFC Errata System Message-ID: <20190717102838.alxkpeg4zs2tejjg@anna.jacobs.jacobs-university.de> Reply-To: Juergen Schoenwaelder Mail-Followup-To: Qin Wu , "Rob Wilton (rwilton)" , "ibagdona@gmail.com" , "warren@kumari.net" , "netmod@ietf.org" , RFC Errata System References: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: User-Agent: NeoMutt/20180716 X-ClientProxiedBy: SXCHMB03.jacobs.jacobs-university.de (10.70.0.155) To sxchmb03.jacobs.jacobs-university.de (10.70.0.155) X-Clacks-Overhead: GNU Terry Pratchett Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Archived-At: Subject: Re: [netmod] [Technical Errata Reported] RFC7950 (5784) X-BeenThere: netmod@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: NETMOD WG list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 17 Jul 2019 10:28:49 -0000 The text starts with the general case and says "Leading and trailing zeros are prohibited", which seems to cover 0.50000000 (which must be represented as 0.5. /js On Wed, Jul 17, 2019 at 09:42:38AM +0000, Qin Wu wrote: > I realized my proposed changes also have some flaw and may need to be t= weaked. >=20 > My question is should trailing zeros in =E2=80=9C0.50000=E2=80=9D be al= lowed? I didn=E2=80=99t see the original text prohibit this. > Yes, the original text is correct, but it excludes some exception cases= , such as =E2=80=9C0.500000000=E2=80=9D, if my understanding is correct. > =E5=8F=91=E4=BB=B6=E4=BA=BA: Rob Wilton (rwilton) [mailto:rwilton@cisco= .com] > =E5=8F=91=E9=80=81=E6=97=B6=E9=97=B4: 2019=E5=B9=B47=E6=9C=8817=E6=97=A5= 17:20 > =E6=94=B6=E4=BB=B6=E4=BA=BA: Qin Wu ; Juergen Schoe= nwaelder > =E6=8A=84=E9=80=81: ibagdona@gmail.com; warren@kumari.net; netmod@ietf.= org; RFC Errata System > =E4=B8=BB=E9=A2=98: RE: [netmod] =E7=AD=94=E5=A4=8D: [Technical Errata = Reported] RFC7950 (5784) >=20 > Hi Qin, >=20 > I also find the current RFC text quite understandable and correct. >=20 > The =E2=80=9Cand=E2=80=9D is required to disallow =E2=80=9C.0=E2=80=9D = and =E2=80=9C0.=E2=80=9D as valid canonical forms. I.e. in the canonical= form there MUST always be at least one digit (which could be 0) before t= he decimal point and then must be at least one digit (which could be 0) a= fter the decimal point. Otherwise, there must be no leading or trailing = 0=E2=80=99s. So, none of =E2=80=9C.0=E2=80=9D, =E2=80=9C0.=E2=80=9D, =E2= =80=9C00.0=E2=80=9D, =E2=80=9C0.00=E2=80=9D and =E2=80=9C00.00=E2=80=9D a= re in the canonical form, and should be represented as =E2=80=9C0.0=E2=80= =9D instead; similarly none of =E2=80=9C.1=E2=80=9D, =E2=80=9C1.=E2=80=9D= , =E2=80=9C01.0=E2=80=9D, =E2=80=9C1.00=E2=80=9D and =E2=80=9C01.00=E2=80= =9D are in the canonical form and should be represented as =E2=80=9C1.0=E2= =80=9D instead. >=20 > Thanks, > Rob >=20 >=20 > From: netmod > = On Behalf Of Qin Wu > Sent: 17 July 2019 09:59 > To: Juergen Schoenwaelder > > Cc: ibagdona@gmail.com; warren@kumari.net; netmod@ietf.org; RFC Err= ata System > > Subject: [netmod] =E7=AD=94=E5=A4=8D: [Technical Errata Reported] RFC79= 50 (5784) >=20 >=20 > Understand, the problem lies at "and" that is used in " one digit befor= e and after the decimal point ", that is to say it only focus on the case= that has two digits, one is before decimal point, the other digit is aft= er decimal such as "5.06", but doesn't cover the case where "one digit be= fore or after the decimal point ", that=E2=80=99s why I think the case 0.= 500000 is not covered. We should prohibit trailing zeros in =E2=80=9C0.50= 00000=E2=80=9D. >=20 > -----=E9=82=AE=E4=BB=B6=E5=8E=9F=E4=BB=B6----- > =E5=8F=91=E4=BB=B6=E4=BA=BA: Juergen Schoenwaelder [mailto:j.schoenwael= der@jacobs-university.de] > =E5=8F=91=E9=80=81=E6=97=B6=E9=97=B4: 2019=E5=B9=B47=E6=9C=8817=E6=97=A5= 16:46 > =E6=94=B6=E4=BB=B6=E4=BA=BA: Qin Wu > > =E6=8A=84=E9=80=81: RFC Errata System >; ibagdona@gmail.com; netmod@ietf.org; warren@kumari.net > =E4=B8=BB=E9=A2=98: Re: [netmod] [Technical Errata Reported] RFC7950 (5= 784) >=20 >=20 >=20 > The text starts with the general case and says "Leading and trailing ze= ros are prohibited", which seems to cover 0.50000000. The text then handl= es the special rule that there needs to be at least one digit before and = after the decimal point. I think all is fine. >=20 >=20 >=20 > /js >=20 >=20 >=20 > On Wed, Jul 17, 2019 at 08:11:41AM +0000, Qin Wu wrote: >=20 > > What about "0.50000000"? based on original text, is it legal or illeg= al? >=20 > > It seem original text exclude the case where one digit before or afte= r the decimal point? >=20 > > >=20 > > -Qin >=20 > > -----=E9=82=AE=E4=BB=B6=E5=8E=9F=E4=BB=B6----- >=20 > > =E5=8F=91=E4=BB=B6=E4=BA=BA: netmod [mailto:netmod-bounces@ietf.org] = =E4=BB=A3=E8=A1=A8 Juergen Schoenwaelder >=20 > > =E5=8F=91=E9=80=81=E6=97=B6=E9=97=B4: 2019=E5=B9=B47=E6=9C=8817=E6=97= =A5 15:50 >=20 > > =E6=94=B6=E4=BB=B6=E4=BA=BA: RFC Errata System > >=20 > > =E6=8A=84=E9=80=81: ibagdona@gmail.com; ne= tmod@ietf.org; warren@kumari.net >=20 > > =E4=B8=BB=E9=A2=98: Re: [netmod] [Technical Errata Reported] RFC7950 = (5784) >=20 > > >=20 > > I do not see why the original text makes 0.5 or 0.0 illegal. >=20 > > >=20 > > /js >=20 > > >=20 > > On Tue, Jul 16, 2019 at 08:52:52PM -0700, RFC Errata System wrote: >=20 > > > The following errata report has been submitted for RFC7950, "The >=20 > > > YANG >=20 > > > 1.1 Data Modeling Language". >=20 > > > >=20 > > > -------------------------------------- >=20 > > > You may review the report below and at: >=20 > > > https://www.rfc-editor.org/errata/eid5784 >=20 > > > >=20 > > > -------------------------------------- >=20 > > > Type: Technical >=20 > > > Reported by: Qin WU > >=20 > > > >=20 > > > Section: 9.3.2 >=20 > > > >=20 > > > Original Text >=20 > > > ------------- >=20 > > > Leading and trailing zeros are prohibited, subject to the rule that >=20 > > > there MUST be at least one digit before and after the decimal point= . >=20 > > > The value zero is represented as "0.0". >=20 > > > >=20 > > > >=20 > > > >=20 > > > >=20 > > > Corrected Text >=20 > > > -------------- >=20 > > > Leading zeros before the first digit and trailing zeros after the >=20 > > > last digit are prohibited, subject to the rule that there MUST be a= t >=20 > > > least one digit before and after the decimal point. The value zero >=20 > > > is represented as "0.0". >=20 > > > >=20 > > > Notes >=20 > > > ----- >=20 > > > Based on the rule in the orginal text, the value such as "0.5","0.0= " is illegal. So I think the intention of the original text is to make su= re the leading zeros before the first digit and the trailing zero after t= he last digit are prohibited. >=20 > > > >=20 > > > Instructions: >=20 > > > ------------- >=20 > > > This erratum is currently posted as "Reported". If necessary, pleas= e >=20 > > > use "Reply All" to discuss whether it should be verified or rejecte= d. >=20 > > > When a decision is reached, the verifying party can log in to chang= e >=20 > > > the status and edit the report, if necessary. >=20 > > > >=20 > > > -------------------------------------- >=20 > > > RFC7950 (draft-ietf-netmod-rfc6020bis-14) >=20 > > > -------------------------------------- >=20 > > > Title : The YANG 1.1 Data Modeling Language >=20 > > > Publication Date : August 2016 >=20 > > > Author(s) : M. Bjorklund, Ed. >=20 > > > Category : PROPOSED STANDARD >=20 > > > Source : Network Modeling >=20 > > > Area : Operations and Management >=20 > > > Stream : IETF >=20 > > > Verifying Party : IESG >=20 > > > >=20 > > > _______________________________________________ >=20 > > > netmod mailing list >=20 > > > netmod@ietf.org >=20 > > > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/netmod >=20 > > >=20 > > -- >=20 > > Juergen Schoenwaelder Jacobs University Bremen gGmbH >=20 > > Phone: +49 421 200 3587 Campus Ring 1 | 28759 Bremen | German= y >=20 > > Fax: +49 421 200 3103 >=20 > > >=20 > > _______________________________________________ >=20 > > netmod mailing list >=20 > > netmod@ietf.org >=20 > > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/netmod >=20 >=20 >=20 > -- >=20 > Juergen Schoenwaelder Jacobs University Bremen gGmbH >=20 > Phone: +49 421 200 3587 Campus Ring 1 | 28759 Bremen | Germany >=20 > Fax: +49 421 200 3103 --=20 Juergen Schoenwaelder Jacobs University Bremen gGmbH Phone: +49 421 200 3587 Campus Ring 1 | 28759 Bremen | Germany Fax: +49 421 200 3103 From nobody Wed Jul 17 05:02:32 2019 Return-Path: X-Original-To: netmod@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: netmod@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id F0DEE120301 for ; Wed, 17 Jul 2019 05:02:30 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -4.2 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-4.2 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-2.3, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id jesmggY443E5 for ; Wed, 17 Jul 2019 05:02:28 -0700 (PDT) Received: from huawei.com (lhrrgout.huawei.com [185.176.76.210]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 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([169.254.2.51]) by nkgeml414-hub.china.huawei.com ([10.98.56.75]) with mapi id 14.03.0439.000; Wed, 17 Jul 2019 20:02:22 +0800 From: Qin Wu To: Juergen Schoenwaelder CC: "Rob Wilton (rwilton)" , "ibagdona@gmail.com" , "warren@kumari.net" , "netmod@ietf.org" , RFC Errata System Thread-Topic: [netmod] RE: [Technical Errata Reported] RFC7950 (5784) Thread-Index: AdU8lus0cMo2AoIXQi6NsHTweJyMmA== Date: Wed, 17 Jul 2019 12:02:21 +0000 Message-ID: Accept-Language: zh-CN, en-US Content-Language: zh-CN X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-originating-ip: [10.134.31.203] Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-CFilter-Loop: Reflected Archived-At: Subject: Re: [netmod] [Technical Errata Reported] RFC7950 (5784) X-BeenThere: netmod@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: NETMOD WG list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 17 Jul 2019 12:02:31 -0000 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From: Juergen Schoenwaelder To: Qin Wu CC: "Rob Wilton (rwilton)" , "ibagdona@gmail.com" , "warren@kumari.net" , "netmod@ietf.org" , RFC Errata System Message-ID: <20190717123439.fg2j56mzkj36yuh3@anna.jacobs.jacobs-university.de> Reply-To: Juergen Schoenwaelder Mail-Followup-To: Qin Wu , "Rob Wilton (rwilton)" , "ibagdona@gmail.com" , "warren@kumari.net" , "netmod@ietf.org" , RFC Errata System References: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: User-Agent: NeoMutt/20180716 X-ClientProxiedBy: SXCHMB02.jacobs.jacobs-university.de (10.70.0.121) To sxchmb03.jacobs.jacobs-university.de (10.70.0.155) X-Clacks-Overhead: GNU Terry Pratchett Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Archived-At: Subject: Re: [netmod] [Technical Errata Reported] RFC7950 (5784) X-BeenThere: netmod@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: NETMOD WG list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 17 Jul 2019 12:34:49 -0000 Its the first half of the sentence in my copy of RFC 7950. I propose to reject this errata. /js On Wed, Jul 17, 2019 at 12:02:21PM +0000, Qin Wu wrote: > Hi, Juergen and Rob: > The condition to apply " Leading and trailing zeros are prohibited ",is= the second half sentence, i.e.,"there MUST be at least one digit before = and after the decimal point". > One digit before the decimal point and one digit after the decimal poin= t at the same time cover 0.5000000?, I still don't get it. > Maybe I am wrong, but this is not a big deal. >=20 > -Qin > -----=E9=82=AE=E4=BB=B6=E5=8E=9F=E4=BB=B6----- > =E5=8F=91=E4=BB=B6=E4=BA=BA: Juergen Schoenwaelder [mailto:j.schoenwael= der@jacobs-university.de]=20 > =E5=8F=91=E9=80=81=E6=97=B6=E9=97=B4: 2019=E5=B9=B47=E6=9C=8817=E6=97=A5= 18:29 > =E6=94=B6=E4=BB=B6=E4=BA=BA: Qin Wu > =E6=8A=84=E9=80=81: Rob Wilton (rwilton) ; ibagdona@= gmail.com; warren@kumari.net; netmod@ietf.org; RFC Errata System > =E4=B8=BB=E9=A2=98: Re: [netmod] RE: [Technical Errata Reported] RFC795= 0 (5784) >=20 > The text starts with the general case and says "Leading and trailing ze= ros are prohibited", which seems to cover 0.50000000 (which must be repre= sented as 0.5. >=20 > /js >=20 > On Wed, Jul 17, 2019 at 09:42:38AM +0000, Qin Wu wrote: > > I realized my proposed changes also have some flaw and may need to be= tweaked. > >=20 > > My question is should trailing zeros in =E2=80=9C0.50000=E2=80=9D be = allowed? I didn=E2=80=99t see the original text prohibit this. > > Yes, the original text is correct, but it excludes some exception cas= es, such as =E2=80=9C0.500000000=E2=80=9D, if my understanding is correct= . > > =E5=8F=91=E4=BB=B6=E4=BA=BA: Rob Wilton (rwilton) [mailto:rwilton@cis= co.com] > > =E5=8F=91=E9=80=81=E6=97=B6=E9=97=B4: 2019=E5=B9=B47=E6=9C=8817=E6=97= =A5 17:20 > > =E6=94=B6=E4=BB=B6=E4=BA=BA: Qin Wu ; Juergen Sch= oenwaelder=20 > > > > =E6=8A=84=E9=80=81: ibagdona@gmail.com; warren@kumari.net; netmod@iet= f.org; RFC Errata=20 > > System > > =E4=B8=BB=E9=A2=98: RE: [netmod] =E7=AD=94=E5=A4=8D: [Technical Errat= a Reported] RFC7950 (5784) > >=20 > > Hi Qin, > >=20 > > I also find the current RFC text quite understandable and correct. > >=20 > > The =E2=80=9Cand=E2=80=9D is required to disallow =E2=80=9C.0=E2=80=9D= and =E2=80=9C0.=E2=80=9D as valid canonical forms. I.e. in the canonica= l form there MUST always be at least one digit (which could be 0) before = the decimal point and then must be at least one digit (which could be 0) = after the decimal point. Otherwise, there must be no leading or trailing= 0=E2=80=99s. So, none of =E2=80=9C.0=E2=80=9D, =E2=80=9C0.=E2=80=9D, =E2= =80=9C00.0=E2=80=9D, =E2=80=9C0.00=E2=80=9D and =E2=80=9C00.00=E2=80=9D a= re in the canonical form, and should be represented as =E2=80=9C0.0=E2=80= =9D instead; similarly none of =E2=80=9C.1=E2=80=9D, =E2=80=9C1.=E2=80=9D= , =E2=80=9C01.0=E2=80=9D, =E2=80=9C1.00=E2=80=9D and =E2=80=9C01.00=E2=80= =9D are in the canonical form and should be represented as =E2=80=9C1.0=E2= =80=9D instead. > >=20 > > Thanks, > > Rob > >=20 > >=20 > > From: netmod = >=20 > > On Behalf Of Qin Wu > > Sent: 17 July 2019 09:59 > > To: Juergen Schoenwaelder=20 > > > iversity.de>> > > Cc: ibagdona@gmail.com;=20 > > warren@kumari.net;=20 > > netmod@ietf.org; RFC Errata System=20 > > > > > Subject: [netmod] =E7=AD=94=E5=A4=8D: [Technical Errata Reported] RFC= 7950 (5784) > >=20 > >=20 > > Understand, the problem lies at "and" that is used in " one digit bef= ore and after the decimal point ", that is to say it only focus on the ca= se that has two digits, one is before decimal point, the other digit is a= fter decimal such as "5.06", but doesn't cover the case where "one digit = before or after the decimal point ", that=E2=80=99s why I think the case = 0.500000 is not covered. We should prohibit trailing zeros in =E2=80=9C0.= 5000000=E2=80=9D. > >=20 > > -----=E9=82=AE=E4=BB=B6=E5=8E=9F=E4=BB=B6----- > > =E5=8F=91=E4=BB=B6=E4=BA=BA: Juergen Schoenwaelder=20 > > [mailto:j.schoenwaelder@jacobs-university.de] > > =E5=8F=91=E9=80=81=E6=97=B6=E9=97=B4: 2019=E5=B9=B47=E6=9C=8817=E6=97= =A5 16:46 > > =E6=94=B6=E4=BB=B6=E4=BA=BA: Qin Wu > > > =E6=8A=84=E9=80=81: RFC Errata System=20 > > >;=20 > > ibagdona@gmail.com;=20 > > netmod@ietf.org;=20 > > warren@kumari.net > > =E4=B8=BB=E9=A2=98: Re: [netmod] [Technical Errata Reported] RFC7950 = (5784) > >=20 > >=20 > >=20 > > The text starts with the general case and says "Leading and trailing = zeros are prohibited", which seems to cover 0.50000000. The text then han= dles the special rule that there needs to be at least one digit before an= d after the decimal point. I think all is fine. > >=20 > >=20 > >=20 > > /js > >=20 > >=20 > >=20 > > On Wed, Jul 17, 2019 at 08:11:41AM +0000, Qin Wu wrote: > >=20 > > > What about "0.50000000"? based on original text, is it legal or ill= egal? > >=20 > > > It seem original text exclude the case where one digit before or af= ter the decimal point? > >=20 > > > > >=20 > > > -Qin > >=20 > > > -----=E9=82=AE=E4=BB=B6=E5=8E=9F=E4=BB=B6----- > >=20 > > > =E5=8F=91=E4=BB=B6=E4=BA=BA: netmod [mailto:netmod-bounces@ietf.org= ] =E4=BB=A3=E8=A1=A8 Juergen=20 > > > Schoenwaelder > >=20 > > > =E5=8F=91=E9=80=81=E6=97=B6=E9=97=B4: 2019=E5=B9=B47=E6=9C=8817=E6=97= =A5 15:50 > >=20 > > > =E6=94=B6=E4=BB=B6=E4=BA=BA: RFC Errata System=20 > > > > > >=20 > > > =E6=8A=84=E9=80=81: ibagdona@gmail.com;=20 > > > netmod@ietf.org;=20 > > > warren@kumari.net > >=20 > > > =E4=B8=BB=E9=A2=98: Re: [netmod] [Technical Errata Reported] RFC795= 0 (5784) > >=20 > > > > >=20 > > > I do not see why the original text makes 0.5 or 0.0 illegal. > >=20 > > > > >=20 > > > /js > >=20 > > > > >=20 > > > On Tue, Jul 16, 2019 at 08:52:52PM -0700, RFC Errata System wrote: > >=20 > > > > The following errata report has been submitted for RFC7950, "The > >=20 > > > > YANG > >=20 > > > > 1.1 Data Modeling Language". > >=20 > > > > > >=20 > > > > -------------------------------------- > >=20 > > > > You may review the report below and at: > >=20 > > > > https://www.rfc-editor.org/errata/eid5784 > >=20 > > > > > >=20 > > > > -------------------------------------- > >=20 > > > > Type: Technical > >=20 > > > > Reported by: Qin WU=20 > > > > > > >=20 > > > > > >=20 > > > > Section: 9.3.2 > >=20 > > > > > >=20 > > > > Original Text > >=20 > > > > ------------- > >=20 > > > > Leading and trailing zeros are prohibited, subject to the rule=20 > > > > that > >=20 > > > > there MUST be at least one digit before and after the decimal poi= nt. > >=20 > > > > The value zero is represented as "0.0". > >=20 > > > > > >=20 > > > > > >=20 > > > > > >=20 > > > > > >=20 > > > > Corrected Text > >=20 > > > > -------------- > >=20 > > > > Leading zeros before the first digit and trailing zeros after the > >=20 > > > > last digit are prohibited, subject to the rule that there MUST be= =20 > > > > at > >=20 > > > > least one digit before and after the decimal point. The value=20 > > > > zero > >=20 > > > > is represented as "0.0". > >=20 > > > > > >=20 > > > > Notes > >=20 > > > > ----- > >=20 > > > > Based on the rule in the orginal text, the value such as "0.5","0= .0" is illegal. So I think the intention of the original text is to make = sure the leading zeros before the first digit and the trailing zero after= the last digit are prohibited. > >=20 > > > > > >=20 > > > > Instructions: > >=20 > > > > ------------- > >=20 > > > > This erratum is currently posted as "Reported". If necessary,=20 > > > > please > >=20 > > > > use "Reply All" to discuss whether it should be verified or rejec= ted. > >=20 > > > > When a decision is reached, the verifying party can log in to=20 > > > > change > >=20 > > > > the status and edit the report, if necessary. > >=20 > > > > > >=20 > > > > -------------------------------------- > >=20 > > > > RFC7950 (draft-ietf-netmod-rfc6020bis-14) > >=20 > > > > -------------------------------------- > >=20 > > > > Title : The YANG 1.1 Data Modeling Language > >=20 > > > > Publication Date : August 2016 > >=20 > > > > Author(s) : M. Bjorklund, Ed. > >=20 > > > > Category : PROPOSED STANDARD > >=20 > > > > Source : Network Modeling > >=20 > > > > Area : Operations and Management > >=20 > > > > Stream : IETF > >=20 > > > > Verifying Party : IESG > >=20 > > > > > >=20 > > > > _______________________________________________ > >=20 > > > > netmod mailing list > >=20 > > > > netmod@ietf.org > >=20 > > > > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/netmod > >=20 > > > > >=20 > > > -- > >=20 > > > Juergen Schoenwaelder Jacobs University Bremen gGmbH > >=20 > > > Phone: +49 421 200 3587 Campus Ring 1 | 28759 Bremen | Germ= any > >=20 > > > Fax: +49 421 200 3103 > >=20 > > > > >=20 > > > _______________________________________________ > >=20 > > > netmod mailing list > >=20 > > > netmod@ietf.org > >=20 > > > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/netmod > >=20 > >=20 > >=20 > > -- > >=20 > > Juergen Schoenwaelder Jacobs University Bremen gGmbH > >=20 > > Phone: +49 421 200 3587 Campus Ring 1 | 28759 Bremen | German= y > >=20 > > Fax: +49 421 200 3103 >=20 > --=20 > Juergen Schoenwaelder Jacobs University Bremen gGmbH > Phone: +49 421 200 3587 Campus Ring 1 | 28759 Bremen | Germany > Fax: +49 421 200 3103 --=20 Juergen Schoenwaelder Jacobs University Bremen gGmbH Phone: +49 421 200 3587 Campus Ring 1 | 28759 Bremen | Germany Fax: +49 421 200 3103 From nobody Wed Jul 17 05:50:34 2019 Return-Path: X-Original-To: netmod@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: netmod@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id B88731200A3 for ; 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Wed, 17 Jul 2019 12:50:27 +0000 From: "Carey, Timothy (Nokia - US)" To: "netmod@ietf.org" Thread-Topic: Performance considerations for draft-ietf-netmod-nmda-diff Thread-Index: AdU8mwwresgJ1xYdQyq/B5ZPUQgj9g== Date: Wed, 17 Jul 2019 12:50:27 +0000 Message-ID: Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: authentication-results: spf=none (sender IP is ) smtp.mailfrom=timothy.carey@nokia.com; x-originating-ip: [135.245.20.17] x-ms-publictraffictype: Email x-ms-office365-filtering-correlation-id: e113d0b5-afb7-41cf-3862-08d70ab557ff x-ms-office365-filtering-ht: Tenant x-microsoft-antispam: BCL:0; PCL:0; RULEID:(2390118)(7020095)(4652040)(8989299)(5600148)(711020)(4605104)(1401327)(4618075)(4534185)(4627221)(201703031133081)(201702281549075)(8990200)(2017052603328)(7193020); SRVR:DB7PR07MB4138; x-ms-traffictypediagnostic: DB7PR07MB4138: x-microsoft-antispam-prvs: x-ms-oob-tlc-oobclassifiers: OLM:9508; x-forefront-prvs: 01018CB5B3 x-forefront-antispam-report: SFV:NSPM; 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boundary="_000_DB7PR07MB5980D16768F38512610D2B44EFC90DB7PR07MB5980eurp_" MIME-Version: 1.0 X-OriginatorOrg: nokia.com X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-Network-Message-Id: e113d0b5-afb7-41cf-3862-08d70ab557ff X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-originalarrivaltime: 17 Jul 2019 12:50:27.7447 (UTC) X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-fromentityheader: Hosted X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-id: 5d471751-9675-428d-917b-70f44f9630b0 X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-mailboxtype: HOSTED X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-userprincipalname: timothy.carey@nokia.com X-MS-Exchange-Transport-CrossTenantHeadersStamped: DB7PR07MB4138 Archived-At: Subject: [netmod] Performance considerations for draft-ietf-netmod-nmda-diff X-BeenThere: netmod@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: NETMOD WG list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 17 Jul 2019 12:50:33 -0000 --_000_DB7PR07MB5980D16768F38512610D2B44EFC90DB7PR07MB5980eurp_ Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hi, In reviewing the NMDA differences draft, a comment was made that we need to= be careful resources requirements placed on the target elements in order t= o perform the comparison. In some situations the datastores can be quite large and the compute capabi= lities (CPU, memory) somewhat constrained. Should we add a performance cons= ideration section in this draft with maybe how we would expect a server to = respond if the requirements of the request or the associated response excee= d the "current" capabilities of the target? BR, Tim --_000_DB7PR07MB5980D16768F38512610D2B44EFC90DB7PR07MB5980eurp_ Content-Type: text/html; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

Hi,

 

In reviewing the NMDA differences draft, a comment w= as made that we need to be careful resources requirements placed on the tar= get elements in order to perform the comparison.

In some situations the datastores can be quite large= and the compute capabilities (CPU, memory) somewhat constrained. Should we= add a performance consideration section in this draft with maybe how we wo= uld expect a server to respond if the requirements of the request or the associated response exceed the R= 20;current” capabilities of the target?

 

BR,

Tim

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Wed, 17 Jul 2019 15:10:40 +0200 (CEST) Received: from exchange.jacobs-university.de (SXCHMB01.jacobs.jacobs-university.de [10.70.0.120]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (Client CN "exchange.jacobs-university.de", Issuer "DFN-Verein Global Issuing CA" (verified OK)) by hermes.jacobs-university.de (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 09D4620129; Wed, 17 Jul 2019 15:10:39 +0200 (CEST) Received: from anna.localdomain (10.50.218.117) by sxchmb03.jacobs.jacobs-university.de (10.70.0.155) with Microsoft SMTP Server (version=TLS1_2, cipher=TLS_ECDHE_RSA_WITH_AES_256_GCM_SHA384) id 15.1.1713.5; Wed, 17 Jul 2019 15:10:39 +0200 Received: by anna.localdomain (Postfix, from userid 501) id 825C42389F1; Wed, 17 Jul 2019 15:10:36 +0200 (CEST) Date: Wed, 17 Jul 2019 15:10:35 +0200 From: Juergen Schoenwaelder To: Michael Rehder CC: "netmod@ietf.org" Message-ID: <20190717131035.5rseucu3foys6veb@anna.jacobs.jacobs-university.de> Reply-To: Juergen Schoenwaelder Mail-Followup-To: Michael Rehder , "netmod@ietf.org" References: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: User-Agent: NeoMutt/20180716 X-ClientProxiedBy: SXCHMB02.jacobs.jacobs-university.de (10.70.0.121) To sxchmb03.jacobs.jacobs-university.de (10.70.0.155) X-Clacks-Overhead: GNU Terry Pratchett Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Archived-At: Subject: Re: [netmod] definition of "fully expanded YANG" X-BeenThere: netmod@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: NETMOD WG list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 17 Jul 2019 13:10:45 -0000 On Wed, Jul 17, 2019 at 01:03:03PM +0000, Michael Rehder wrote: > Has there ever been discussion about defining =E2=80=9Cfully expanded Y= ANG=E2=80=9D, > that is a YANG module with all internal and external imports > resolved? I wonder what "all internal and external imports resolved" means here - you mean included inline? I doubt this will be tremendously useful nor do I know what that will work with augments and the fact that definitions live in different namespaces and that for example must and when expressions are namespace qualified. I believe there are tools that do semantic diffs based on comparing schema trees internal to a compiler and that sounds to me more robust than producing "fully expanded YANG". /js --=20 Juergen Schoenwaelder Jacobs University Bremen gGmbH Phone: +49 421 200 3587 Campus Ring 1 | 28759 Bremen | Germany Fax: +49 421 200 3103 From nobody Wed Jul 17 06:19:14 2019 Return-Path: X-Original-To: netmod@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: netmod@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id D00BE12023F for ; Wed, 17 Jul 2019 06:19:07 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.688 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.688 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_INVALID=0.1, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, T_SPF_PERMERROR=0.01, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=no autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=fail 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"ibagdona@gmail.com" , "warren@kumari.net" , "netmod@ietf.org" , RFC Errata System From: Per Hedeland Message-ID: <5c18f238-fdc7-98af-36ac-4f9784663bd7@hedeland.org> Date: Wed, 17 Jul 2019 15:29:19 +0200 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; FreeBSD amd64; rv:60.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/60.6.1 MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: <20190717123439.fg2j56mzkj36yuh3@anna.jacobs.jacobs-university.de> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8; format=flowed Content-Language: en-US Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Archived-At: Subject: Re: [netmod] [Technical Errata Reported] RFC7950 (5784) X-BeenThere: netmod@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: NETMOD WG list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 17 Jul 2019 13:29:31 -0000 On 2019-07-17 14:34, Juergen Schoenwaelder wrote: > Its the first half of the sentence in my copy of RFC 7950. It believe that there is a problem with English language both in Qin's understanding of the original text (which is correct also in my opinion) and in his explanation of his (mis)understanding... > I propose to reject this errata. I agree, in particular since the suggested change is IMHO no actual improvement. It seems the problem is in understanding the "subject to" construct, which is perhaps not obvious to *all* non-native English readers, but I can't think of a replacement that wouldn't result in an unecessarily complex text. > /js > > On Wed, Jul 17, 2019 at 12:02:21PM +0000, Qin Wu wrote: >> Hi, Juergen and Rob: >> The condition to apply " Leading and trailing zeros are prohibited ",is the second half sentence, i.e.,"there MUST be at least one digit before and after the decimal point". It seems that you have it almost backwards... "The rule is A subject to the rule B" means that rule A should be applied, except when it will violate rule B. >> One digit before the decimal point and one digit after the decimal point at the same time cover 0.5000000?, I still don't get it. It's a very good example. With unconditional application of "Leading and trailing zeros are prohibited", we end up with .5 - but then we violate "there MUST be at least one digit before and after the decimal point", so we need to back out the removal of the leading zero, and end up with 0.5. >> Maybe I am wrong, but this is not a big deal. Hopefully the above helps... --Per >> -Qin >> -----®öŸö----- >> Ñöº: Juergen Schoenwaelder [mailto:j.schoenwaelder@jacobs-university.de] >> Ñöô: 2019t717å 18:29 >> 6öº: Qin Wu >> „: Rob Wilton (rwilton) ; ibagdona@gmail.com; warren@kumari.net; netmod@ietf.org; RFC Errata System >> ;˜: Re: [netmod] RE: [Technical Errata Reported] RFC7950 (5784) >> >> The text starts with the general case and says "Leading and trailing zeros are prohibited", which seems to cover 0.50000000 (which must be represented as 0.5. >> >> /js >> >> On Wed, Jul 17, 2019 at 09:42:38AM +0000, Qin Wu wrote: >>> I realized my proposed changes also have some flaw and may need to be tweaked. >>> >>> My question is should trailing zeros in 0.50000 be allowed? I didnt see the original text prohibit this. >>> Yes, the original text is correct, but it excludes some exception cases, such as 0.500000000, if my understanding is correct. >>> Ñöº: Rob Wilton (rwilton) [mailto:rwilton@cisco.com] >>> Ñöô: 2019t717å 17:20 >>> 6öº: Qin Wu ; Juergen Schoenwaelder >>> >>> „: ibagdona@gmail.com; warren@kumari.net; netmod@ietf.org; RFC Errata >>> System >>> ;˜: RE: [netmod] T : [Technical Errata Reported] RFC7950 (5784) >>> >>> Hi Qin, >>> >>> I also find the current RFC text quite understandable and correct. >>> >>> The and is required to disallow .0 and 0. as valid canonical forms. I.e. in the canonical form there MUST always be at least one digit (which could be 0) before the decimal point and then must be at least one digit (which could be 0) after the decimal point. Otherwise, there must be no leading or trailing 0s. So, none of .0, 0., 00.0, 0.00 and 00.00 are in the canonical form, and should be represented as 0.0 instead; similarly none of .1, 1., 01.0, 1.00 and 01.00 are in the canonical form and should be represented as 1.0 instead. >>> >>> Thanks, >>> Rob >>> >>> >>> From: netmod > >>> On Behalf Of Qin Wu >>> Sent: 17 July 2019 09:59 >>> To: Juergen Schoenwaelder >>> >> iversity.de>> >>> Cc: ibagdona@gmail.com; >>> warren@kumari.net; >>> netmod@ietf.org; RFC Errata System >>> > >>> Subject: [netmod] T : [Technical Errata Reported] RFC7950 (5784) >>> >>> >>> Understand, the problem lies at "and" that is used in " one digit before and after the decimal point ", that is to say it only focus on the case that has two digits, one is before decimal point, the other digit is after decimal such as "5.06", but doesn't cover the case where "one digit before or after the decimal point ", thats why I think the case 0.500000 is not covered. We should prohibit trailing zeros in 0.5000000. >>> >>> -----®öŸö----- >>> Ñöº: Juergen Schoenwaelder >>> [mailto:j.schoenwaelder@jacobs-university.de] >>> Ñöô: 2019t717å 16:46 >>> 6öº: Qin Wu > >>> „: RFC Errata System >>> >; >>> ibagdona@gmail.com; >>> netmod@ietf.org; >>> warren@kumari.net >>> ;˜: Re: [netmod] [Technical Errata Reported] RFC7950 (5784) >>> >>> >>> >>> The text starts with the general case and says "Leading and trailing zeros are prohibited", which seems to cover 0.50000000. The text then handles the special rule that there needs to be at least one digit before and after the decimal point. I think all is fine. >>> >>> >>> >>> /js >>> >>> >>> >>> On Wed, Jul 17, 2019 at 08:11:41AM +0000, Qin Wu wrote: >>> >>>> What about "0.50000000"? based on original text, is it legal or illegal? >>> >>>> It seem original text exclude the case where one digit before or after the decimal point? >>> >>>> >>> >>>> -Qin >>> >>>> -----®öŸö----- >>> >>>> Ñöº: netmod [mailto:netmod-bounces@ietf.org] ãh Juergen >>>> Schoenwaelder >>> >>>> Ñöô: 2019t717å 15:50 >>> >>>> 6öº: RFC Errata System >>>> > >>> >>>> „: ibagdona@gmail.com; >>>> netmod@ietf.org; >>>> warren@kumari.net >>> >>>> ;˜: Re: [netmod] [Technical Errata Reported] RFC7950 (5784) >>> >>>> >>> >>>> I do not see why the original text makes 0.5 or 0.0 illegal. >>> >>>> >>> >>>> /js >>> >>>> >>> >>>> On Tue, Jul 16, 2019 at 08:52:52PM -0700, RFC Errata System wrote: >>> >>>>> The following errata report has been submitted for RFC7950, "The >>> >>>>> YANG >>> >>>>> 1.1 Data Modeling Language". >>> >>>>> >>> >>>>> -------------------------------------- >>> >>>>> You may review the report below and at: >>> >>>>> https://www.rfc-editor.org/errata/eid5784 >>> >>>>> >>> >>>>> -------------------------------------- >>> >>>>> Type: Technical >>> >>>>> Reported by: Qin WU >>>>> > >>> >>>>> >>> >>>>> Section: 9.3.2 >>> >>>>> >>> >>>>> Original Text >>> >>>>> ------------- >>> >>>>> Leading and trailing zeros are prohibited, subject to the rule >>>>> that >>> >>>>> there MUST be at least one digit before and after the decimal point. >>> >>>>> The value zero is represented as "0.0". >>> >>>>> >>> >>>>> >>> >>>>> >>> >>>>> >>> >>>>> Corrected Text >>> >>>>> -------------- >>> >>>>> Leading zeros before the first digit and trailing zeros after the >>> >>>>> last digit are prohibited, subject to the rule that there MUST be >>>>> at >>> >>>>> least one digit before and after the decimal point. The value >>>>> zero >>> >>>>> is represented as "0.0". >>> >>>>> >>> >>>>> Notes >>> >>>>> ----- >>> >>>>> Based on the rule in the orginal text, the value such as "0.5","0.0" is illegal. So I think the intention of the original text is to make sure the leading zeros before the first digit and the trailing zero after the last digit are prohibited. >>> >>>>> >>> >>>>> Instructions: >>> >>>>> ------------- >>> >>>>> This erratum is currently posted as "Reported". If necessary, >>>>> please >>> >>>>> use "Reply All" to discuss whether it should be verified or rejected. >>> >>>>> When a decision is reached, the verifying party can log in to >>>>> change >>> >>>>> the status and edit the report, if necessary. >>> >>>>> >>> >>>>> -------------------------------------- >>> >>>>> RFC7950 (draft-ietf-netmod-rfc6020bis-14) >>> >>>>> -------------------------------------- >>> >>>>> Title : The YANG 1.1 Data Modeling Language >>> >>>>> Publication Date : August 2016 >>> >>>>> Author(s) : M. Bjorklund, Ed. >>> >>>>> Category : PROPOSED STANDARD >>> >>>>> Source : Network Modeling >>> >>>>> Area : Operations and Management >>> >>>>> Stream : IETF >>> >>>>> Verifying Party : IESG >>> >>>>> >>> >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>> >>>>> netmod mailing list >>> >>>>> netmod@ietf.org >>> >>>>> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/netmod >>> >>>> >>> >>>> -- >>> >>>> Juergen Schoenwaelder Jacobs University Bremen gGmbH >>> >>>> Phone: +49 421 200 3587 Campus Ring 1 | 28759 Bremen | Germany >>> >>>> Fax: +49 421 200 3103 >>> >>>> >>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>> >>>> netmod mailing list >>> >>>> netmod@ietf.org >>> >>>> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/netmod >>> >>> >>> >>> -- >>> >>> Juergen Schoenwaelder Jacobs University Bremen gGmbH >>> >>> Phone: +49 421 200 3587 Campus Ring 1 | 28759 Bremen | Germany >>> >>> Fax: +49 421 200 3103 >> >> -- >> Juergen Schoenwaelder Jacobs University Bremen gGmbH >> Phone: +49 421 200 3587 Campus Ring 1 | 28759 Bremen | Germany >> Fax: +49 421 200 3103 > From nobody Wed Jul 17 06:36:38 2019 Return-Path: X-Original-To: netmod@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: netmod@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id AE7291203F2 for ; Wed, 17 Jul 2019 06:36:37 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -4.197 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-4.197 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-2.3, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_NONE=0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 1rtQSLxaaMbG for ; Wed, 17 Jul 2019 06:36:35 -0700 (PDT) Received: from gabriel-vm-2.zfn.uni-bremen.de (gabriel-vm-2.zfn.uni-bremen.de [134.102.50.17]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher AECDH-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 91AAB1201C7 for ; Wed, 17 Jul 2019 06:36:35 -0700 (PDT) Received: from [192.168.217.110] (p548DCE40.dip0.t-ipconnect.de [84.141.206.64]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by gabriel-vm-2.zfn.uni-bremen.de (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 45pdb60TM2zyTX; Wed, 17 Jul 2019 15:36:33 +0200 (CEST) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 11.5 \(3445.9.1\)) From: Carsten Bormann In-Reply-To: Date: Wed, 17 Jul 2019 15:36:33 +0200 Cc: "netmod@ietf.org" X-Mao-Original-Outgoing-Id: 585063390.786364-757ce97ce8dfb74b122685669bf5ff90 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Message-Id: <94C05898-67B1-4B2E-88FA-1C3130A4CF38@tzi.org> References: <20190717131035.5rseucu3foys6veb@anna.jacobs.jacobs-university.de> To: Michael Rehder X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.3445.9.1) Archived-At: Subject: Re: [netmod] definition of "fully expanded YANG" X-BeenThere: netmod@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: NETMOD WG list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 17 Jul 2019 13:36:38 -0000 On Jul 17, 2019, at 15:18, Michael Rehder = wrote: >=20 > - translating to another schema language Hi Michael, If that is interesting to you: We will spend the weekend on translating between data modeling languages = during the IETF105 hackathon as part of the WISHI activity inside T2TRG = (sorry for the abbrev overload). YANG will be among the languages we = are looking at. This is all in the context of the data model = convergence activities going on in IoT space, but of course the = resulting model translation engines will be useful beyond that. More info: http://wishi.space/ = https://github.com/t2trg/wishi/wiki/Preparation:-Hackathon-Planning#planne= d-hacking-topics https://github.com/t2trg/wishi/wiki/IETF-105-Hackathon Discussion is on the T2TRG mailing list, https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/t2trg Gr=C3=BC=C3=9Fe, Carsten From nobody Wed Jul 17 06:40:46 2019 Return-Path: X-Original-To: netmod@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: netmod@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1A2D4120403 for ; Wed, 17 Jul 2019 06:40:44 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.688 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.688 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_INVALID=0.1, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, T_SPF_PERMERROR=0.01, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=no autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=fail (1024-bit key) reason="fail (body has 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(demetrius5.irc-it.jacobs-university.de [10.70.0.222]) by hermes.jacobs-university.de (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3F7FB2012C; Wed, 17 Jul 2019 15:54:16 +0200 (CEST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at jacobs-university.de Received: from hermes.jacobs-university.de ([212.201.44.23]) by localhost (demetrius5.jacobs-university.de [10.70.0.222]) (amavisd-new, port 10028) with ESMTP id 7SEggFDEgxRi; Wed, 17 Jul 2019 15:54:16 +0200 (CEST) Received: from exchange.jacobs-university.de (sxchmb04.jacobs.jacobs-university.de [10.70.0.156]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (Client CN "exchange.jacobs-university.de", Issuer "DFN-Verein Global Issuing CA" (verified OK)) by hermes.jacobs-university.de (Postfix) with ESMTPS id DB57620129; Wed, 17 Jul 2019 15:54:15 +0200 (CEST) Received: from anna.localdomain (10.50.218.117) by sxchmb03.jacobs.jacobs-university.de (10.70.0.155) with Microsoft SMTP Server (version=TLS1_2, cipher=TLS_ECDHE_RSA_WITH_AES_256_GCM_SHA384) id 15.1.1713.5; Wed, 17 Jul 2019 15:54:15 +0200 Received: by anna.localdomain (Postfix, from userid 501) id E4D16238C14; Wed, 17 Jul 2019 15:54:14 +0200 (CEST) Date: Wed, 17 Jul 2019 15:54:14 +0200 From: Juergen Schoenwaelder To: Michael Rehder CC: "netmod@ietf.org" Message-ID: <20190717135414.qqvobxqcnta6lghy@anna.jacobs.jacobs-university.de> Reply-To: Juergen Schoenwaelder Mail-Followup-To: Michael Rehder , "netmod@ietf.org" References: <20190717131035.5rseucu3foys6veb@anna.jacobs.jacobs-university.de> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: User-Agent: NeoMutt/20180716 X-ClientProxiedBy: SXCHMB02.jacobs.jacobs-university.de (10.70.0.121) To sxchmb03.jacobs.jacobs-university.de (10.70.0.155) Archived-At: Subject: Re: [netmod] definition of "fully expanded YANG" X-BeenThere: netmod@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: NETMOD WG list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 17 Jul 2019 13:54:20 -0000 On Wed, Jul 17, 2019 at 01:18:57PM +0000, Michael Rehder wrote: > Yes, inlining of everything, including augments. What you'd see in the tree representation. > For example augments makes it particularly impossible for a consumer of the YANG schema to process the schema since the final result. > > Some use cases: > - translating to another schema language > - translating to a UI dialog for data entry > - an accurate diff on versions > > Model-driven-design means using the "computable specification" for all sorts of things, increasing the ROI of the schema definition. It sounds to me like you are interested in what compiler people call the abstract syntax tree, which is quite a different thing than the YANG module you start with. The easiest and most robust way to do translations is likely to simply expand pyang (or any other compiler of choice). > The diff is a significant issue. As a schema author, I must reliably document all changes. > Without a full expansion, it's easy to not notice that a particular module has changes in its final form. > I don't see how you could verify a semantic version number in a package without this. Well, this sounds a bit like a tooling issue. You are likely better off with a tool that can do a semantic comparison for you instead of working with "fully expanded YANG" modules and generic diff tools. /js -- Juergen Schoenwaelder Jacobs University Bremen gGmbH Phone: +49 421 200 3587 Campus Ring 1 | 28759 Bremen | Germany Fax: +49 421 200 3103 From nobody Wed Jul 17 07:32:29 2019 Return-Path: X-Original-To: netmod@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: netmod@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id DC22F120409 for ; Wed, 17 Jul 2019 07:32:27 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.998 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.998 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_NONE=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (1024-bit key) header.d=hq.sk Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id XM5jEckHS5Rj for ; Wed, 17 Jul 2019 07:32:25 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail.hq.sk (hq.sk [81.89.59.181]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher AECDH-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 60B241205D7 for ; Wed, 17 Jul 2019 07:32:25 -0700 (PDT) Received: from nitebug.nitenet.local (46.229.239.158.host.vnet.sk [46.229.239.158]) by mail.hq.sk (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 3C299243F98; Wed, 17 Jul 2019 16:32:22 +0200 (CEST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/simple; d=hq.sk; s=mail; t=1563373942; bh=F3rkqQNaM9kyD9Fo7Yi6cfPvzoe9NhTdznhROgt8sTw=; h=Subject:To:References:From:Date:In-Reply-To; b=WIyBd0nqnIK48KupxnYUhwyAOh2mqF8j0eMYrhXRRRGSO3f4VCtuBxi6hiN5wU3/A lklalv3cMw3dpdru0rKKNIR0tlA216kI1v28eBxpGS/JrE1FDC1T72EKWJ99qhzhfn WH6v08YfweGl1IctpWf1+8DvBfAPJ+kUTiSP09os= To: Michael Rehder , "netmod@ietf.org" References: <20190717131035.5rseucu3foys6veb@anna.jacobs.jacobs-university.de> <20190717135414.qqvobxqcnta6lghy@anna.jacobs.jacobs-university.de> From: Robert Varga Openpgp: preference=signencrypt Message-ID: <1ef4785d-5cab-ff62-b8fb-ed64c876e437@hq.sk> Date: Wed, 17 Jul 2019 16:32:14 +0200 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; Linux x86_64; rv:60.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/60.7.2 MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: <20190717135414.qqvobxqcnta6lghy@anna.jacobs.jacobs-university.de> Content-Type: multipart/signed; micalg=pgp-sha512; protocol="application/pgp-signature"; boundary="QqenCvsxKvy7dXcXKFETMJQhYUSH3N476" Archived-At: Subject: Re: [netmod] definition of "fully expanded YANG" X-BeenThere: netmod@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: NETMOD WG list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 17 Jul 2019 14:32:28 -0000 This is an OpenPGP/MIME signed message (RFC 4880 and 3156) --QqenCvsxKvy7dXcXKFETMJQhYUSH3N476 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="MjOWQRSC9Aw077D78ibM9ZfpxfkPPjp1m"; protected-headers="v1" From: Robert Varga To: Michael Rehder , "netmod@ietf.org" Message-ID: <1ef4785d-5cab-ff62-b8fb-ed64c876e437@hq.sk> Subject: Re: [netmod] definition of "fully expanded YANG" References: <20190717131035.5rseucu3foys6veb@anna.jacobs.jacobs-university.de> <20190717135414.qqvobxqcnta6lghy@anna.jacobs.jacobs-university.de> In-Reply-To: <20190717135414.qqvobxqcnta6lghy@anna.jacobs.jacobs-university.de> --MjOWQRSC9Aw077D78ibM9ZfpxfkPPjp1m Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Language: en-US Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable On 17/07/2019 15:54, Juergen Schoenwaelder wrote: > On Wed, Jul 17, 2019 at 01:18:57PM +0000, Michael Rehder wrote: >> Yes, inlining of everything, including augments. What you'd see in the= tree representation. >> For example augments makes it particularly impossible for a consumer o= f the YANG schema to process the schema since the final result. >> >> Some use cases: >> - translating to another schema language >> - translating to a UI dialog for data entry >> - an accurate diff on versions >> >> Model-driven-design means using the "computable specification" for all= sorts of things, increasing the ROI of the schema definition. >=20 > It sounds to me like you are interested in what compiler people call > the abstract syntax tree, which is quite a different thing than the > YANG module you start with. The easiest and most robust way to do > translations is likely to simply expand pyang (or any other compiler > of choice). Depends on how you define the AST (and how many different ASTs are in your compiler), as .yang file has an AST itself, which you then cross-reference between modules/submodules, and you arrive at some IR, from which you derive the effective model with whatever indices/details your use case requires. This is certainly possible with OpenDaylight tooling, i.e. arrive at https://github.com/opendaylight/yangtools/blob/master/yang/yang-model-api= /src/main/java/org/opendaylight/yangtools/yang/model/api/EffectiveModelCo= ntext.java, which gives you a per-module tree of statements with all RFC7950 semantic processing applied. It also contains some generally-useful indices (like schema tree/data tree traversal) as well as references to original statement declaration (i.e. as it appeared in .yang file, if applicable). Regards, Robert --MjOWQRSC9Aw077D78ibM9ZfpxfkPPjp1m-- --QqenCvsxKvy7dXcXKFETMJQhYUSH3N476 Content-Type: application/pgp-signature; name="signature.asc" Content-Description: OpenPGP digital signature Content-Disposition: attachment; filename="signature.asc" -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- iQI/BAEBCgApFiEEdj+N7pgGP1gKvbdQJKB0S2uuNdsFAl0vMW4LHG5pdGVAaHEu c2sACgkQJKB0S2uuNds4MA//WxR9tbdxU0dl0W5u9UBGKckIYZrYy9D2MPoZe/ON jh+xw92IbcMo48tLOa5WP+rNZyyQliA6qmBNu9gc+Ba3jZM72h7fKOVR0war8y+x JezCXQu1p9WWmQ3seNx6dgjQcCX+pjp+g4mWNMW544e5VG7pJDKZQteCxfja5ob6 o+hVyfrYIGXCqLXIa1Ia6TO7pd+FTQWolCwTw9sw/F27vTG3KmXMXWYv6MhDdpNk 7ZOI6Aw0mrRWPZc8kJ6UEchnQQ9vRo69fx/U+hoBYg5KJpL5SN4nykRGlH4EwMF1 ST/Rg9pc/JvAPmAleheRFtgY5pmo47FzAsPdh82rsvcNNQYH+BybLLi/5nA4cyPF S6eePMaD6mK9HcqA+z8iySonAd55nh84msejAk95biMKUUB1fchWmX0z14k+xMim vtio5a8FFGAjbVAZOJ6lsVsYePyjQOT9xV8ytEoWgiDg1tSuX1Bgy8o85ZqZyAb/ h3LmGMf791sMzM/K+VkWFlJrcX38MUzWCjgZ31iAWD4BcGAmb88a9qTNlpJzKKA5 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mapi id 14.03.0439.000; Thu, 18 Jul 2019 09:40:46 +0800 From: Qin Wu To: Per Hedeland CC: "Rob Wilton (rwilton)" , "ibagdona@gmail.com" , "warren@kumari.net" , "netmod@ietf.org" , RFC Errata System Thread-Topic: [netmod] [Technical Errata Reported] RFC7950 (5784) Thread-Index: AdU9CbQoOI4rzOoWRgi/X87bkUci8w== Date: Thu, 18 Jul 2019 01:40:46 +0000 Message-ID: Accept-Language: zh-CN, en-US Content-Language: zh-CN X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-originating-ip: [10.134.31.203] Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-CFilter-Loop: Reflected Archived-At: Subject: Re: [netmod] [Technical Errata Reported] RFC7950 (5784) X-BeenThere: netmod@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: NETMOD WG list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 18 Jul 2019 01:41:00 -0000 UGVyLCB0aGFuayBmb3IgeW91ciBjbGFyaWZpY2F0aW9uLCB5b3UgYWRkcmVzcyBteSBjb21tZW50 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Microsoft SMTP Server (version=TLS1_0, cipher=TLS_ECDHE_RSA_WITH_AES_128_CBC_SHA_P256) id 15.1.1713.5 via Frontend Transport; Thu, 18 Jul 2019 03:43:48 +0100 Received: from NKGEML513-MBS.china.huawei.com ([169.254.2.51]) by NKGEML413-HUB.china.huawei.com ([10.98.56.74]) with mapi id 14.03.0439.000; Thu, 18 Jul 2019 10:43:26 +0800 From: Qin Wu To: Kent Watsen CC: "netconf@ietf.org" , "netmod@ietf.org" Thread-Topic: [netconf] [netmod] RE: pls clarify get operation Thread-Index: AdU9ETq4sTpTMz3bTxurvnfGNPR27g== Date: Thu, 18 Jul 2019 02:43:26 +0000 Message-ID: Accept-Language: zh-CN, en-US Content-Language: zh-CN X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-originating-ip: [10.134.31.203] Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="_000_B8F9A780D330094D99AF023C5877DABAA4A03B74nkgeml513mbschi_" MIME-Version: 1.0 X-CFilter-Loop: Reflected Archived-At: Subject: Re: [netmod] [netconf] RE: pls clarify get operation X-BeenThere: netmod@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: 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2019 12:34:16 +0800 From: Rohit R Ranade To: Qin Wu , Kent Watsen CC: "netconf@ietf.org" , "netmod@ietf.org" Thread-Topic: [netconf] [netmod] RE: pls clarify get operation Thread-Index: AdU9ETq4sTpTMz3bTxurvnfGNPR27gAEGcDw Date: Thu, 18 Jul 2019 04:34:15 +0000 Message-ID: <991B70D8B4112A4699D5C00DDBBF878A6BD9F7A1@dggeml510-mbx.china.huawei.com> References: In-Reply-To: Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-originating-ip: [10.18.150.121] Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="_000_991B70D8B4112A4699D5C00DDBBF878A6BD9F7A1dggeml510mbxchi_" MIME-Version: 1.0 X-CFilter-Loop: Reflected Archived-At: Subject: Re: [netmod] [netconf] RE: pls clarify get operation X-BeenThere: netmod@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: NETMOD WG list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 18 Jul 2019 04:34:34 -0000 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X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-userprincipalname: timothy.carey@nokia.com X-MS-Exchange-Transport-CrossTenantHeadersStamped: DB7PR07MB4793 Archived-At: Subject: Re: [netmod] Performance considerations for draft-ietf-netmod-nmda-diff X-BeenThere: netmod@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: NETMOD WG list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 18 Jul 2019 11:59:14 -0000 --_000_DB7PR07MB5980798C5BA4404626655437EFC80DB7PR07MB5980eurp_ Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hi Alex, As long as there isn't any requirements of specific error messages (like re= source exceeded) that you want to use if the requests cannot be fulfilled, = I think that might be ok; obviously the concern may be security related but= also simply related to resource constraints - an authorized system could a= sk for a comparison that the device simply couldn't complete. That gets los= t in security section. BR, Tim From: Alexander Clemm Sent: Wednesday, July 17, 2019 1:38 PM To: Carey, Timothy (Nokia - US) ; netmod@ietf.org Subject: RE: Performance considerations for draft-ietf-netmod-nmda-diff Hi Tim, this aspect is currently mentioned in the security considerations, specific= ally the last paragraph (https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-netmod-nmda= -diff-02#page-14), mentioning the fact that comparing datastores for differ= ences requires a certain amount of processing resources, which could be lev= eraged by an attacker to consume resources via illegitimate requests, and o= utlining mitigations (ranging from NACM, to limiting the number of requests= per time interval and reserving the option to reject a request). Do you = think this is sufficient? Adding a separate performance considerations se= ction is of course possible but would be somewhat redundant. --- Alex From: netmod > On B= ehalf Of Carey, Timothy (Nokia - US) Sent: Wednesday, July 17, 2019 5:50 AM To: netmod@ietf.org Subject: [netmod] Performance considerations for draft-ietf-netmod-nmda-dif= f Hi, In reviewing the NMDA differences draft, a comment was made that we need to= be careful resources requirements placed on the target elements in order t= o perform the comparison. In some situations the datastores can be quite large and the compute capabi= lities (CPU, memory) somewhat constrained. Should we add a performance cons= ideration section in this draft with maybe how we would expect a server to = respond if the requirements of the request or the associated response excee= d the "current" capabilities of the target? BR, Tim --_000_DB7PR07MB5980798C5BA4404626655437EFC80DB7PR07MB5980eurp_ Content-Type: text/html; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

Hi Alex,

 

As long as there isn’t any requirements of spe= cific error messages (like resource exceeded) that you want to use if the r= equests cannot be fulfilled, I think that might be ok; obviously the concer= n may be security related but also simply related to resource constraints – an authorized system could ask for= a comparison that the device simply couldn’t complete. That gets los= t in security section.

 

BR,

Tim

 

From: Alexander Clemm <alex@futurewei.com&= gt;
Sent: Wednesday, July 17, 2019 1:38 PM
To: Carey, Timothy (Nokia - US) <timothy.carey@nokia.com>; net= mod@ietf.org
Subject: RE: Performance considerations for draft-ietf-netmod-nmda-d= iff

 

Hi Tim,

 

this aspect is currently mentioned in the security c= onsiderations, specifically the last paragraph (https://tools.ietf.org/= html/draft-ietf-netmod-nmda-diff-02#page-14), mentioning the fact that comparing datastores for differences requires a c= ertain amount of processing resources, which could be leveraged by an attac= ker to consume resources via illegitimate requests, and outlining mitigatio= ns (ranging from NACM, to limiting the number of requests per time interval and reserving the option to rejec= t a request).   Do you think this is sufficient?   Addi= ng a separate performance considerations section is of course possible but = would be somewhat redundant. 

 

--- Alex

 

From: netmod <netmod-bounces@ietf.org> On Behalf Of Carey, Timothy (Nokia - US)
Sent: Wednesday, July 17, 2019 5:50 AM
To: netmod@ietf.org
Subject: [netmod] Performance considerations for draft-ietf-netmod-n= mda-diff

 

Hi,

 

In reviewing the NMDA differences draft, a comment w= as made that we need to be careful resources requirements placed on the tar= get elements in order to perform the comparison.

In some situations the datastores can be quite large= and the compute capabilities (CPU, memory) somewhat constrained. Should we= add a performance consideration section in this draft with maybe how we wo= uld expect a server to respond if the requirements of the request or the associated response exceed the R= 20;current” capabilities of the target?

 

BR,

Tim

--_000_DB7PR07MB5980798C5BA4404626655437EFC80DB7PR07MB5980eurp_-- From nobody Thu Jul 18 17:27:48 2019 Return-Path: <0100016c07a0a410-dfb4a6d2-fcd0-462d-a768-beeac7c79424-000000@amazonses.watsen.net> X-Original-To: netmod@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: netmod@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id D5333120135 for ; Thu, 18 Jul 2019 17:27:46 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.897 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.897 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_NONE=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (1024-bit key) header.d=amazonses.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id FaII0Ejo0i43 for ; Thu, 18 Jul 2019 17:27:45 -0700 (PDT) Received: from a8-83.smtp-out.amazonses.com (a8-83.smtp-out.amazonses.com [54.240.8.83]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 60008120133 for ; Thu, 18 Jul 2019 17:27:45 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; q=dns/txt; c=relaxed/simple; s=6gbrjpgwjskckoa6a5zn6fwqkn67xbtw; d=amazonses.com; t=1563496064; h=From:Content-Type:Mime-Version:Subject:Date:References:To:In-Reply-To:Message-Id:Feedback-ID; bh=iUDhePM0E/IpHPt9Ca7CXa6ZVbOu3cHJoHpAdZ0ut78=; b=YGt8udZXlZCUE2fCLmBaC/cHsPuCWU5baN4Ws+BiUpbo1GlOUaJ+SOT18iCFCG5I M4eRHxWuGozvyMcNNiJ+eNleUO2c9EcwgVU6p5rHFf4qNj0HLv107yt+6TRYRZ1kBKQ kFY3FGsfCJynmKfPd4zRcEANNZcns1VsGQNVffIM= From: Kent Watsen Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="Apple-Mail=_475B0792-A890-442D-8AA1-625E06561727" Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 12.4 \(3445.104.11\)) Date: Fri, 19 Jul 2019 00:27:44 +0000 References: <0100016bdde44af6-e3b24fee-3afa-419b-aac0-368d5ec6ee1b-000000@email.amazonses.com> To: "netmod@ietf.org" In-Reply-To: <0100016bdde44af6-e3b24fee-3afa-419b-aac0-368d5ec6ee1b-000000@email.amazonses.com> Message-ID: <0100016c07a0a410-dfb4a6d2-fcd0-462d-a768-beeac7c79424-000000@email.amazonses.com> X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.3445.104.11) X-SES-Outgoing: 2019.07.19-54.240.8.83 Feedback-ID: 1.us-east-1.DKmIRZFhhsBhtmFMNikgwZUWVrODEw9qVcPhqJEI2DA=:AmazonSES Archived-At: Subject: Re: [netmod] draft netconf 105 agenda posted. X-BeenThere: netmod@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: NETMOD WG list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 19 Jul 2019 00:27:47 -0000 --Apple-Mail=_475B0792-A890-442D-8AA1-625E06561727 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii The agenda has been updated: = https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/agenda-105-netmod = + draft-ietf-netmod-nmda-diff-02 + draft-wu-netmod-base-notification-nmda-03 Kent --Apple-Mail=_475B0792-A890-442D-8AA1-625E06561727 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Type: text/html; charset=us-ascii The agenda has been updated: https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/agenda-105-netmod

+ draft-ietf-netmod-nmda-diff-02
+ draft-wu-netmod-base-notification-nmda-03


Kent


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[54.88.81.56]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2118B12001E for ; Fri, 19 Jul 2019 04:08:12 -0700 (PDT) Received: from stubbs.home (172-222-100-236.dhcp.chtrptr.net [172.222.100.236]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher DHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (Client did not present a certificate) by smtp.chopps.org (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 6E24E603A8; Fri, 19 Jul 2019 07:08:11 -0400 (EDT) From: Christian Hopps Message-Id: Content-Type: multipart/signed; boundary="Apple-Mail=_7488EED5-BC5F-43F5-9668-8ABC7E1CF916"; protocol="application/pgp-signature"; micalg=pgp-sha512 Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 12.4 \(3445.104.11\)) Date: Fri, 19 Jul 2019 07:08:10 -0400 In-Reply-To: <8daa922c-194c-4a1f-9a4e-b2851ef58ed3@cesnet.cz> Cc: Christian Hopps , Ladislav Lhotka , netmod@ietf.org To: =?utf-8?Q?Jan_Kundr=C3=A1t?= References: <8bcdad12-cec1-47b2-b8ad-bb8ab6d6783e@cesnet.cz> <87lfx4df50.fsf@nic.cz> <8daa922c-194c-4a1f-9a4e-b2851ef58ed3@cesnet.cz> X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.3445.104.11) Archived-At: Subject: Re: [netmod] draft-ietf-netmod-geo-location-01: an optional location info X-BeenThere: netmod@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: NETMOD WG list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 19 Jul 2019 11:08:13 -0000 --Apple-Mail=_7488EED5-BC5F-43F5-9668-8ABC7E1CF916 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 The intention was for a location node to be required if the = container was present. Apparently this will only work if = "container geo-lcoation" is a presence container. I'm not even sure = that's all that smart of a requirement (e.g., maybe someone just wants = to indicate the reference-frame for an object). I'll remove the = mandatory from location. Thanks, Chris. > On Jul 11, 2019, at 9:54 AM, Jan Kundr=C3=A1t = wrote: >=20 >> The "location" choice is defined as mandatory, so an instance of one = of the cases must be present. I don't know whether it is necessary or = not, but you can avoid it easily by overriding the definition: >=20 > Thanks for explaining this. I'll leave it to the draft authors to = evaluate whether an optional geolocation makes more sense than a = hard-coded one. >=20 > Diky > Honza K. >=20 > _______________________________________________ > netmod mailing list > netmod@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/netmod >=20 --Apple-Mail=_7488EED5-BC5F-43F5-9668-8ABC7E1CF916 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: attachment; filename=signature.asc Content-Type: application/pgp-signature; name=signature.asc Content-Description: Message signed with OpenPGP -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- iQIzBAEBCgAdFiEEm56yH/NF+m1FHa6lLh2DDte4MCUFAl0xpJoACgkQLh2DDte4 MCU2KA/8DvQUOelilI5pISxsO73VvrOKV0TJNxZ59qCmG5Uy+fhuN0iT59fkObPd /0pgTg9stx4d+5IfsdQ65U8g+YwiLDUvYMz1XBxeiYgo6za1dSgrisPjB5UPJOd9 0V+Z8hOLWZF9uvy7TmLoaEgGD4VtlscRt8wjDW4WadvLh39cwCPZFbKKy5NCxcGM lho7heV8qpNx33i1Pa/3U2kVm+nuLOgSEI+EFQb5skDH41Wi5YOYnuE6Bxzhb+Bj L11GHixRGJ87w1or0HKysUIPMxoMF3r93cOwqZ87UyggYAceKGmViNKxlpCs1tvU 9P1ggCcN2hRwkVUG/BeKY+G+37SpVdvoHZCJ2iFcbaueLUOufS5DU75bI1lHFg4S vJDyKhw8Z4nn3Gn6BZEFXSPq0GkYeQ8aWEqwWQvu9m5tnXYgaEoDJHppI4pe9909 sweTLqcD5fX30PWHDxaA3Ib048FV4kB0IN3Z/rJDCW/SMxFxVbc/Ngx4FcXOmfxg 81qtXHkG3OM1aMb0mQlkQ4mpK/3ABZ2+IYnBSUO7/ar1fM3PksW5ICnqNBH9sffI lx7GuhY2wrzLSAXUyyRhHQgRIyBrvgBw11V4SetrpDhWKY2VbfuoDWANhgiK70pR juh/01BX0u7yxs5+1Rjfezo9cDrHsuBWY7lg6Q7T83S4wNPG22w= =O2gS -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --Apple-Mail=_7488EED5-BC5F-43F5-9668-8ABC7E1CF916-- From nobody Fri Jul 19 04:27:58 2019 Return-Path: X-Original-To: netmod@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: netmod@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0317D12017A for ; Fri, 19 Jul 2019 04:27:56 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.897 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.897 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAD_ENC_HEADER=0.001, BAYES_00=-1.9, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_NONE=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id wZUkGNj41Y7Q for ; Fri, 19 Jul 2019 04:27:54 -0700 (PDT) Received: from smtp.chopps.org (smtp.chopps.org [54.88.81.56]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 71D9212001E for ; Fri, 19 Jul 2019 04:27:54 -0700 (PDT) Received: from stubbs.home (172-222-100-236.dhcp.chtrptr.net [172.222.100.236]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher DHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (Client did not present a certificate) by smtp.chopps.org (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id B8DFD603A8; Fri, 19 Jul 2019 07:27:53 -0400 (EDT) From: Christian Hopps Message-Id: <75D06E6E-CB49-4BD2-AC9B-F9A0DAADF62F@chopps.org> Content-Type: multipart/signed; boundary="Apple-Mail=_ACB32D34-8876-42B0-8FE9-9791C7B930FB"; protocol="application/pgp-signature"; micalg=pgp-sha512 Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 12.4 \(3445.104.11\)) Date: Fri, 19 Jul 2019 07:27:52 -0400 In-Reply-To: <20190625.095812.959182004133340318.mbj@tail-f.com> Cc: Christian Hopps , Ladislav Lhotka , kent@watsen.net, netmod@ietf.org To: Martin Bjorklund References: <0100016b8c38574d-9d8aad57-3e50-45c4-98bb-24091a765ded-000000@email.amazonses.com> <87tvceunai.fsf@nic.cz> <20190625.095812.959182004133340318.mbj@tail-f.com> X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.3445.104.11) Archived-At: Subject: Re: [netmod] ?= ?==?utf-8?q? mandatory choice with non-presence container cas X-BeenThere: netmod@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: NETMOD WG list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 19 Jul 2019 11:27:56 -0000 --Apple-Mail=_ACB32D34-8876-42B0-8FE9-9791C7B930FB Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii > On Jun 25, 2019, at 3:58 AM, Martin Bjorklund wrote: >=20 > Ladislav Lhotka wrote: >> Kent Watsen writes: >>=20 >>> Hi Michal, >>>> I agree, but these valid data were correctly printed into invalid >>>> data. I do not think printing is allowed to change the validity of >>>> data. >>> The NP-container text is unclear. >>=20 >> This issue IMO has more to do with the "mandatory" statement under >> "choice". Similar problems can be caused by data nodes that depend on >> "when". For example: >>=20 >> choice sel { >> madatory true; >> leaf foo { >> when "..."; >> ... >> } >> leaf bar { ... } >> leaf baz { ... } >>=20 >> If "foo" exists in instance data but its when condition becomes = false, >> the server is expected to remove the "foo" instance, but what next? >> The data becomes invalid, but the server can hardly include "bar" or >> "baz" on its own. >=20 > Right, so that change (that would make the when condition false) will > be rejected by the server, since the resulting config would be > invalid. This is subtle, I wonder if it is called out somewhere for YANG module = implementers? Basically what the above means (assuming a module sw = design) is that prior to *any change anywhere in the system* the server = software (probably) needs to re-run validation on the entire resulting = config to make sure that the config will still be valid, prior to making = the change. The sort of obvious place this would happen is having baseline software = that does not know about (has no code written for) some new feature that = is added later by the vendor/user. This new sw has some when's in it = that refer back to the baseline sw. Thanks, Chris. >=20 >=20 > /martin >=20 >=20 >=20 >=20 >>=20 >> Lada >>=20 >>> I'm unsure if you saw the thread in NETCONF, but I filed this issue >>> over the weekend. Please add to it, if only to include a link to = this >>> thread: https://github.com/netmod-wg/yang-next/issues/88. Thanks, = Kent >>> _______________________________________________ netmod mailing list >>> netmod@ietf.org https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/netmod >>=20 >> -- >> Ladislav Lhotka Head, CZ.NIC Labs PGP Key ID: 0xB8F92B08A9F76C67 >>=20 >> _______________________________________________ >> netmod mailing list >> netmod@ietf.org >> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/netmod >>=20 >=20 > _______________________________________________ > netmod mailing list > netmod@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/netmod --Apple-Mail=_ACB32D34-8876-42B0-8FE9-9791C7B930FB Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: attachment; filename=signature.asc Content-Type: application/pgp-signature; name=signature.asc Content-Description: Message signed with OpenPGP -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- iQIzBAEBCgAdFiEEm56yH/NF+m1FHa6lLh2DDte4MCUFAl0xqTgACgkQLh2DDte4 MCXxfhAAiSEMPQpxRlqBWwv0HvXLjyMFrAubjXDKFhH+/ATqoiKhTjUtL54FU9Eu 7UgkZKXyF/N845XqKmkNgB5/KC6JpgXRhZrRqm8dsEVRDcuFzJ+Ljl6TerMLsg1w /mRk6JvEr8D6SQFc2c62Ma0mDLqgOdSWo4hwhIiIpbyLecBQ5SeQ2VTWh5PX6CNq NciQSZDW0p0a8DhqokDmuG9Ji2infflf28P5Tb/EeyYy5tPqVqqxshsvlIcLYoHx lokm2fqI5VlD0SvNuK07b4jlKTk5zVPCB+qTZEMirjXdDz1BxRpGOsNBAyIv+hj3 6FPWysZ21SkeCXM5adHP6yylowytYCKF5I33PUqXZ6cDwix+M2Kt1qU2bKtl+WkL 0uJU7WvQIpICyX5n2U8bxSRH28u/qmCN+FIX5reBpJwUM9kKIk+C+yaNFSOIm+sq kXMm/mBO0ZHuB+p/iAFVBThZKhyqkT2D6aNtTxzpzCriJmYiEJLXaML+uBYKPzLO +MVWZ3KHdLOqj+9YsYICmWuZexghGXeL9TXE7mdwIqhxON/l1oKFKKrI25OUmSvI wSJ2A0CZL9tBg7T5zB+0hHsZmpJFPAsv0s2pet7Ii0VUws8kFWwpaPvZmu/LNLiU iUhRtf2uzguI/mGW6B9uDZTwCRqlNl6h1Fdd8THflvX6OCuVHBY= =cKab -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --Apple-Mail=_ACB32D34-8876-42B0-8FE9-9791C7B930FB-- From nobody Sat Jul 20 15:01:00 2019 Return-Path: X-Original-To: netmod@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: netmod@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3EB441201E8; Sat, 20 Jul 2019 15:00:59 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -6.898 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-6.898 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_HI=-5, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_NONE=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 7f-rYIrVs4bd; Sat, 20 Jul 2019 15:00:58 -0700 (PDT) Received: from nagasaki.bogus.com (nagasaki.bogus.com [IPv6:2001:418:1::81]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id DA3BC1201E0; Sat, 20 Jul 2019 15:00:57 -0700 (PDT) Received: from dhcp-8157.meeting.ietf.org ([IPv6:2001:67c:370:128:741a:2e4a:eab:8e9f]) (authenticated bits=0) by nagasaki.bogus.com (8.15.2/8.15.2) with ESMTPSA id x6KM0uVl042423; Sat, 20 Jul 2019 22:00:57 GMT (envelope-from joelja@bogus.com) X-Authentication-Warning: nagasaki.bogus.com: Host [IPv6:2001:67c:370:128:741a:2e4a:eab:8e9f] claimed to be dhcp-8157.meeting.ietf.org To: netmod@ietf.org Cc: netmod-chairs@ietf.org From: Joel Jaeggli Message-ID: Date: Sat, 20 Jul 2019 15:00:56 -0700 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Macintosh; Intel Mac OS X 10.14; rv:60.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/60.8.0 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="------------93D24AD85223B3DC39E632F5" Content-Language: en-US Archived-At: Subject: [netmod] Reminder Slides for Monday 7/22 X-BeenThere: netmod@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: NETMOD WG list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sat, 20 Jul 2019 22:00:59 -0000 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --------------93D24AD85223B3DC39E632F5 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Reminder, Our meeting is pretty early in this IETF Meeting at 13:30 on Monday 7/22. As a result of the timing having slides sent to the chairs this weekend so that they can be uploaded and included in the agenda for consumption prior to and during the meeting is greatly appreciated. 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Sun, 21 Jul 2019 15:58:49 +0100 Received: from lhreml711-chm.china.huawei.com (10.201.108.62) by lhreml711-chm.china.huawei.com (10.201.108.62) with Microsoft SMTP Server (version=TLS1_2, cipher=TLS_ECDHE_RSA_WITH_AES_128_GCM_SHA256) id 15.1.1713.5; Sun, 21 Jul 2019 15:58:48 +0100 Received: from NKGEML412-HUB.china.huawei.com (10.98.56.73) by lhreml711-chm.china.huawei.com (10.201.108.62) with Microsoft SMTP Server (version=TLS1_0, cipher=TLS_ECDHE_RSA_WITH_AES_128_CBC_SHA) id 15.1.1713.5 via Frontend Transport; Sun, 21 Jul 2019 15:58:47 +0100 Received: from NKGEML513-MBS.china.huawei.com ([169.254.2.207]) by nkgeml412-hub.china.huawei.com ([10.98.56.73]) with mapi id 14.03.0439.000; Sun, 21 Jul 2019 22:58:44 +0800 From: Qin Wu To: Kent Watsen CC: "netconf@ietf.org" , "netmod@ietf.org" Thread-Topic: [netconf] [netmod] RE: pls clarify get operation Thread-Index: AdU9ETq4sTpTMz3bTxurvnfGNPR27gCw1Dg5 Date: Sun, 21 Jul 2019 14:58:43 +0000 Message-ID: References: In-Reply-To: Accept-Language: zh-CN, en-US Content-Language: zh-CN X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-originating-ip: [10.124.94.138] Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="_000_B8F9A780D330094D99AF023C5877DABAA8816CEFnkgeml513mbschi_" MIME-Version: 1.0 X-CFilter-Loop: Reflected Archived-At: Subject: Re: [netmod] [netconf] RE: pls clarify get operation X-BeenThere: netmod@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: NETMOD WG list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sun, 21 Jul 2019 14:58:56 -0000 --_000_B8F9A780D330094D99AF023C5877DABAA8816CEFnkgeml513mbschi_ Content-Type: text/plain; charset="gb2312" Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 SSBibGlldmUgdGhlcmUgaXMgc3VmZmljaWVudCBkaXNjdXNzaW9uIG9uIHRoaXMgaXNzdWUsIHdl IGhhdmUgcmVxdWVzdGVkIGEgdGltZXNsb3QgaW4gbmV0bW9kIHNlc3Npb24gdG8gZ2l2ZSB0aGUg dXBkYXRlLCBob3BlZnVsbHkgY29ubHVkZWQgdGhpcyBkaXNjdXNzaW9uLiBUaGFua3MhDQoNCg0K DQotUWluDQoNCl9fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fDQq3orz+yMs6IG5ldGNv bmYgW25ldGNvbmYtYm91bmNlc0BpZXRmLm9yZ10gtPqx7SBRaW4gV3UgW2JpbGwud3VAaHVhd2Vp LmNvbV0NCreiy83KsbzkOiAyMDE5xOo31MIxOMjVIDEwOjQzDQrK1bz+yMs6IEtlbnQgV2F0c2Vu DQqzrcvNOiBuZXRjb25mQGlldGYub3JnOyBuZXRtb2RAaWV0Zi5vcmcNCtb3zOI6IFJlOiBbbmV0 Y29uZl0gW25ldG1vZF0gUkU6IHBscyBjbGFyaWZ5IGdldCBvcGVyYXRpb24NCg0Kt6K8/sjLOiBL ZW50IFdhdHNlbiBbbWFpbHRvOmtlbnRAd2F0c2VuLm5ldF0NCreiy83KsbzkOiAyMDE5xOo31MIx MMjVIDI6MzENCsrVvP7IyzogUWluIFd1IDxiaWxsLnd1QGh1YXdlaS5jb20+DQqzrcvNOiBuZXRj b25mQGlldGYub3JnOyBuZXRtb2RAaWV0Zi5vcmcNCtb3zOI6IFJlOiBbbmV0Y29uZl0gW25ldG1v ZF0gUkU6IHBscyBjbGFyaWZ5IGdldCBvcGVyYXRpb24NCg0KW0p1c3QgYmFjayBmcm9tIGEgNHRo IG9mIEp1bHkgdGhpbmddDQoNCkhpIFFpbiwNCkl0IHByb3ZpZGVzIGd1aWRlbGluZSBob3cgdG8g Y3JlYXRlIHRlbXBvcmFyeSBub24tTk1EQSBtb2R1bGUgZnJvbSBOTURBIG1vZHVsZSwgYnV0IHRl bXBvcmFyeSBub24tTk1EQSBtb2R1bGUgaXMgbm90IHN0YW5kYXJkIG1vZHVsZS4gU28gZXZlcnli b2R5IHdpbGwgY3JlYXRlIHRoZSBzYW1lIHRlbXBvcmFyeSBub24tTk1EQSBtb2R1bGU/DQpJIGFs c28gZmVlbCB0aGlzIHNlY29uZCBwYXJhZ3JhcGggaXMgbm90IHZlcnkgY2xlYXIsIGVzcGVjaWFs bHkgdGhlIGxhc3Qgc2VudGVuY2UsICBpcyBuZXN0ZWQgY29uZmlnIGZhbHNlIGRhdGEgbm9kZXMg cGFydCBvZiBOTURBIG1vZHVsZSBvciB0ZW1wb3Jhcnkgbm9uLU5NREENCk1vZHVsZT8gTG9va3Mg bGlrZSAgbmVzdGVkIGNvbmZpZyBmYWxzZSBkYXRhIG5vZGUgcGFydCBvZiBOTURBIG1vZHVsZT8N ClRydWUsIGJ1dCBhcyBJIHdyb3RlIEZyYW5rIG9uIHRoZSAyOHRoOg0KDQoiU29tZSBkcmFmdHMg YWxyZWFkeSBwdWJsaXNoIGEgInN0YXRlIiBtb2R1bGUgaW4gdGhlaXIgQXBwZW5kaXggYW5kLCB3 aGVuIHRoZXkgZG8sIHRoZXJlIGlzIGEgY29tcGxldGVseSBzdGFuZGFyZCBub24tTk1EQSBJRVRG IHNvbHV0aW9uLiAgSSBkb24ndCBrbm93IGlmIHRoaXMgc3RyYXRlZ3kgaXMgYmVpbmcgZm9sbG93 ZWQgdW5pdmVyc2FsbHkgYnV0LCBpZiBub3QsIHRoZW4gSSBkb24ndCBiZWxpZXZlIHRoZSBJRVRG IHdvdWxkIG9iamVjdCBhdCBhbGwgdG8gdGhlIHB1YmxpY2F0aW9uIG9mIGRyYWZ0cyBmb3IgbWlz c2luZyBzdGF0ZSBtb2RlbHMgaW4gZHJhZnRzIHRoYXQgb25seSBhc3N1bWVkIE5NREEuIg0KDQpB cmUgeW91IGZhY2luZyB0aGlzIHNpdHVhdGlvbiBjdXJyZW50bHk/ICAgSWYgc28sIHdpdGggd2hp Y2ggbW9kdWxlcz8gIEhhdmUgeW91IGNvbnNpZGVyZWQgc3VibWl0dGluZyBhbiBJLUQgdG8gZGVm aW5lIHRoZSBtaXNzaW5nIHN0YXRlIHRyZWUgbW9kdWxlPw0KDQpbUWluXTogWWVzLCB3ZSBhcmUg bG9va2luZyBmb3IgY29tcGxldGVseSBzdGFuZGFyZCBub24tTk1EQSBJRVRGIHNvbHV0aW9uIGlu IHRoaXMgTk1EQSB0cmFuc2l0aW9uIHRpbWUgcGVyaW9kLCBzaW5jZSB3ZSBhc3N1bWUgbWFueSBO RVRDT05GIGNsaWVudHMgaW4gdGhlIGV4aXN0aW5nIGRlcGxveW1lbnQgZG9uoa90IHN1cHBvcnQg Tk1EQS4gV2UgYXJlIG5vdCBzdXJlIHN0YXRlIG1vZHVsZSBpbiB0aGUgYXBwZW5kaXggaXMgc3Rh bmRhcmQgbm9uLU5NREEgbW9kZWwgb3Igbm90PyBIb3cgbWFueSBvcGVyYXRvcnMgYW5kIGltcGxl bWVudGVyIHdpbGwgdXNlIHRoZW0gYXMgc3RhbmRhcmQgbW9kZWwuDQpZZWFoLCBmb3Igc29tZSBv ZiBvdGhlciBtb2RlbCBtYXkgbm90IGRlZmluZSBzdWNoIHN0YXRlIG1vZHVsZSBpbiB0aGUgYXBw ZW5kaXguDQpDYW4gbm9uLU5NREEgY2xpZW50IGNvbnN1bWUgTk1EQSBtb2R1bGU/DQoNClNvcnQg b2YuICBUaGUgY29uZmlnLXRydWUgbm9kZXMgd2lsbCBhcHBlYXIgaW4gdGhlIDxydW5uaW5nPiBh cyB1c3VhbCwgYW5kIHRoZSBjb25maWctZmFsc2Ugbm9kZXMgY2FuIGJlIGFjY2Vzc2VkIHZpYSB0 aGUgc3RhbmRhcmQgb3BlcmF0aW9ucy4gIEJ1dCB0aGVyZSB3aWxsIGJlIGlzc3VlcyBhcywgZm9y IGluc3RhbmNlLCB0aGUgY29uZmlnLWZhbHNlIG5vZGVzIHdpbGwgb25seSBhcHBlYXIgZm9yIGNv bmZpZ3VyZWQgaXRlbXMgYW5kIHRoZSBvcGVyYXRpb25hbCB2YWx1ZSBmb3IgY29uZmlnLXRydWUg bm9kZXMgd2lsbCBiZSBtaXNzaW5nLCB0aGUgbGF0dGVyIG9mIHdoaWNoIG1heSBiZSBpbXBvcnRh bnQgYXMgYW4gTk1EQS1vcHRpbWl6ZWQgZGF0YSBtb2RlbCBpcyB1bmxpa2VseSB0byBkZWZpbmUg Y29uZmlnLWZhbHNlIG5vZGVzIGZvciBhbnkgY29uZmlnLXRydWUgbm9kZXMsIGFuZCBoZW5jZSB0 aGUgY29uZmlnLWZhbHNlIHRoYXQgYXJlIGRlZmluZWQgbWF5IGJlIGZhciBhbmQgZmV3IGJldHdl ZW4sIGxlYWRpbmcgdG8gYW4gdW5hY2NlcHRhYmx5IGluY29tcGxldGUgdXBzdGF0ZSB2aWV3Lg0K DQpbUWluXTpUaGF0IGlzIGV4YWN0bHkgdGhlIGlzc3VlIHdlIGFyZSBmYWNpbmcuIEhvdyBkbyB3 ZSBhcyBOb24tTk1EQSBjbGllbnQgdXNlIE5ETUEgbW9kdWxlIHRvIGdldCBzeXN0ZW0gZ2VuZXJh dGVkIGNvbmZpZ3VyYXRpb24uIEkgYXNzdW1lIGNvbmZpZyBmYWxzZSBub2RlcyBmb3IgY29uZmln LXRydWUgbm9kZXMgYXJlIHJlZmVycmVkIHRvIHN5c3RlbSBnZW5lcmF0ZWQgY29uZmlndXJhdGlv bi4gVGhlc2Ugc3lzdGVtIGdlbmVyYXRlZCBjb25maWd1cmF0aW9uIGNhbiBub3QgYmUgb2J0YWlu ZWQgdGhyb3VnaCBnZXQgb3BlcmF0aW9uLg0KDQoNCg== --_000_B8F9A780D330094D99AF023C5877DABAA8816CEFnkgeml513mbschi_ Content-Type: text/html; 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I blieve there is sufficient discussion on this issue, we have requested= a timeslot in netmod session to give the update, hopefully conluded this d= iscussion. Thanks!

 

-Qin

=B7=A2=BC=FE=C8=CB: netconf [netconf-bounc= es@ietf.org] =B4=FA=B1=ED Qin Wu [bill.wu@huawei.com]
=B7=A2=CB=CD=CA=B1=BC=E4: 2019=C4=EA7=D4=C218=C8=D5 10:43
=CA=D5=BC=FE=C8=CB: Kent Watsen
=B3=AD=CB=CD: netconf@ietf.org; netmod@ietf.org
=D6=F7=CC=E2: Re: [netconf] [netmod] RE: pls clarify get operation

=B7=A2=BC=FE=C8=CB: Kent Watse= n [mailto:kent@watsen.net]
=B7=A2=CB=CD=CA=B1=BC=E4: 2019=C4=EA7=D4=C210<= /span>=C8=D5 2:31
=CA=D5=BC=FE=C8=CB: Qin Wu <bill.wu@huawei.com>
=B3=AD=CB=CD: netconf@ietf.org; netmod@ietf.org
=D6=F7=CC=E2: Re: [netconf] [netmod] RE: pls clarify get operation

 

[Just back from a 4th of July t= hing]

 

Hi Qin,

It provides guide= line how to create temporary non-NMDA module from NMDA module, but temporar= y non-NMDA module is not standard module. So everybody will create the same temporary non-NMDA module?

I also feel this = second paragraph is not very clear, especially the last sentence,  is = nested config false data nodes part of NMDA module or temporary non-NMDA

Module? Looks lik= e  nested config false data node part of NMDA module?

True, but as I wrote Frank on t= he 28th:  

 

"Some drafts already publi= sh a "state" module in their Appendix and, when they do, there is= a completely standard non-NMDA IETF solution.  I don't know if this s= trategy is being followed universally but, if not, then I don't believe the IETF would object at all to the publication of drafts = for missing state models in drafts that only assumed NMDA."  &nbs= p;

 

Are you facing this situation c= urrently?   If so, with which modules?  Have you considered submi= tting an I-D to define the missing state tree module?

 

[Qin]:= Yes, we are looking for completely standard non-NMDA IETF solution in this= NMDA transition time period, since we assume many NETCONF clients in the e= xisting deployment don=A1=AFt support NMDA. We are not sure state module in the appendix is standard non-NMDA model or= not? How many operators and implementer will use them as standard model.

Yeah, = for some of other model may not define such state module in the appendix.

Can non-NMDA clie= nt consume NMDA module?

 

Sort of.  The config-true = nodes will appear in the <running> as usual, and the config-false nod= es can be accessed via the standard operations.  But there will be iss= ues as, for instance, the config-false nodes will only appear for configured items and the operational value for config-true node= s will be missing, the latter of which may be important as an NMDA-optimize= d data model is unlikely to define config-false nodes for any config-true n= odes, and hence the config-false that are defined may be far and few between, leading to an unacceptably in= complete upstate view.

 

[Qin]:= That is exactly the issue we are facing. How do we as Non-NMDA client use N= DMA module to get system generated configuration. I assume config false nod= es for config-true nodes are referred to system generated configuration. These system generated configuration ca= n not be obtained through get operation.

 

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X-BeenThere: netmod@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: NETMOD WG list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sun, 21 Jul 2019 19:58:03 -0000 ------=_NextPart_000_020D_01D53FDD.0E7664A0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_001_020E_01D53FDD.0E7664A0" ------=_NextPart_001_020E_01D53FDD.0E7664A0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hello Chairs, I would like to hear what=92s up with YANG-Next (1.2). Could you please address it in the meeting! Even if we just have a statement that it is pending, it would be good to know. Regards Balazs ------=_NextPart_001_020E_01D53FDD.0E7664A0 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

Hello Chairs,

I = would like to hear what’s up with YANG-Next (1.2). Could you = please address it in the meeting!

Even if we just have a statement that it is pending, = it would be good to know.

Regards = Balazs

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netmod@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2426B12001B; Sun, 21 Jul 2019 13:02:04 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -6.898 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-6.898 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_HI=-5, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_NONE=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id QxSDnw4sYg67; Sun, 21 Jul 2019 13:02:03 -0700 (PDT) Received: from nagasaki.bogus.com (nagasaki.bogus.com [IPv6:2001:418:1::81]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id E2D501200B8; Sun, 21 Jul 2019 13:02:02 -0700 (PDT) Received: from dhcp-8157.meeting.ietf.org ([IPv6:2001:67c:370:128:c4e5:b72:8239:5088]) (authenticated bits=0) by nagasaki.bogus.com (8.15.2/8.15.2) with ESMTPSA id x6LK21Nq055126; Sun, 21 Jul 2019 20:02:02 GMT (envelope-from joelja@bogus.com) X-Authentication-Warning: nagasaki.bogus.com: Host [IPv6:2001:67c:370:128:c4e5:b72:8239:5088] claimed to be dhcp-8157.meeting.ietf.org Cc: netmod-chairs@ietf.org To: netmod@ietf.org From: Joel Jaeggli Message-ID: <816e2d16-fff7-6b90-2df1-b0bc338eefa4@bogus.com> Date: Sun, 21 Jul 2019 13:02:01 -0700 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Macintosh; Intel Mac OS X 10.14; rv:60.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/60.8.0 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="------------829A354D94CFAC06709AB182" Content-Language: en-US Archived-At: Subject: [netmod] Netmod Errata posted since IETF 104 X-BeenThere: netmod@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: NETMOD WG list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sun, 21 Jul 2019 20:02:04 -0000 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --------------829A354D94CFAC06709AB182 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable The following errata have been lodged since IETF 104. Well will have a brief section of the agenda devoted to the errata. If you have strong opinions for or against any of the unverified errata please come prepared to discuss them.=C2=A0 The two with recent list discussion are n= oted with proposed outcomes. RFC 6244 verified editorial - https://www.rfc-editor.org/errata/eid5760 RFC 7950 unverified technical - https://www.rfc-editor.org/errata/eid5517 unverified technical - https://www.rfc-editor.org/errata/eid5617 unverified editorial - https://www.rfc-editor.org/errata/eid5642 unverified technical - https://www.rfc-editor.org/errata/eid5663 unverified technical - https://www.rfc-editor.org/errata/eid5784 (changes the specification should be rejected) RFC 8407 verified editorial - https://www.rfc-editor.org/errata/eid5693 RFC 8519 unverified technical - https://www.rfc-editor.org/errata/eid5762 (changes the specification should be rejected) Thanks Netmod Chairs --------------829A354D94CFAC06709AB182 Content-Type: application/pgp-keys; name="pEpkey.asc" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Disposition: attachment; filename="pEpkey.asc" -----BEGIN PGP PUBLIC KEY BLOCK----- mQENBF0zjHcBCAC/VccTV8/Owi3MQVGop8umVKn4stHzV/F4/5+ixMnzkhhRsI1L 305ew6Uh+ypYkKn28X7B5+3zNIRxK+JKkV9QKufSBPFcTd41xoknMtCMSr5QZIln A61tLz2oCIdB6eiTrzI60pHwd0idCOmAEqUP8JLfaQZK9JNQ416Kb/8CHiDhkG0N 17l0EYT+uVVBlUbSAgbaw6gO2csUPeASB6oiFd9AdCBVMQsQ4Q57Giz1oFam/FJw igtZ4TG+fW8dM1k8ngyonN8RzdTwnkkPLCNrttdOfjrv9llianW9Jz48l52ViT39 S82tYLkDuNbQ0AJKK8lniYz0yvs47k5WHF/VABEBAAG0H0pvZWwgSmFlZ2dsaSA8 am9lbGphQGJvZ3VzLmNvbT6JAVQEEwEIAD4WIQTSCLPd1dloH5f5hauFzc47B3GZ 7AUCXTOMdwIbAwUJAeEzgAULCQgHAgYVCgkICwIEFgIDAQIeAQIXgAAKCRCFzc47 B3GZ7HcvCAChCaaK8xnP5z7bxz5y5tX15fpEzjjhz0fHe32gJ2uZblWzhX6ch/6z 2k51Pcnf0FJj788Nu+WI0kF/U81jByvbz5WPlEBm7E/D0HLxsIWkbt0AlNjiDIP8 WuTZ0Lom/m7YFzwLTN7g+MI5Jqui/LEKcKAqoo5ioGsDGOIa9Fq7/WWkx7fIYvTR pqSpPKdZs3kz1z9QvncyM3IrY7fOMD4hShCwcA2HU+rl61g6aIZmpG7LXT0ZlHfY UMk8zxL/8/S89p7ZPxhxrjDeYMPxlexmWY9KZS6Ek6ugO2udHeEDagpUpUrmqEgg tK8qSsmclqqWXWps5Bl8JLueamnwV+77uQENBF0zjHcBCADWGXodjIueeHPimoj7 55ExPKJvP8ECZProTxJ86N5xmLP9Fbs70FKSxRwv4at1fWgvEwOU9w0ibq7CT+wo neboxFsWh6GEHlskSlgr5MpqCJXSpcoHABR7aBaBecFAD2YS3Zaf7GUCHcl51Bb8 7Xuj59tS8S5RCMtQ5spAL1unLt/rIBbEaiJR24/vJQLuZAJtAeUQgy0s2daBFKfL j/7AIVGTpbFSpM3iiOOjFnvQsWapzxheLNS57OY7DaQWDsd/E8zFHcTJLpotST4r AkWnXvrCxOkFKX+WJ1TKiy8I0enIa1U8aB+9YswHy4fE3GbGqeMDjSxCziNLKKe+ MlZ1ABEBAAGJATwEGAEIACYWIQTSCLPd1dloH5f5hauFzc47B3GZ7AUCXTOMdwIb DAUJAeEzgAAKCRCFzc47B3GZ7G9dB/9mvCNEjuJVv9IdcziUFrWX8r0rZPRTw+iH 1EKxpE5RWU+LTf3dNJWz/s8pItLkevjIz4tLOdoAa8awj4xqoLkoVFr/LTU7ugaF ZksanT5/E5ZsDm/ngsdUAgOwZvalOU6cdj7Utzk1xWbGfPLnx86a8VzEaCMtzNX6 roW3zJPBcxnDekuvuHnEiAvUBDGhf2GcVafVRuyM0MOlT7jQ0B8N6mcmojJFSJvO 4jFLiT2/9vPgl4i41S3P8jbjEBQ24U26BDBuB3yNOvoaPDcRUsC1sKHHZCr1cwan 0E4HFJ5kouvANneQTsH+QtWnGZ9mtDrmR+qZ4p7+4dXve+HsG64S =3DmE9q -----END PGP PUBLIC KEY BLOCK----- --------------829A354D94CFAC06709AB182-- From nobody Sun Jul 21 13:25:57 2019 Return-Path: X-Original-To: netmod@ietf.org Delivered-To: netmod@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from ietfa.amsl.com (localhost [IPv6:::1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8904512001B; Sun, 21 Jul 2019 13:25:56 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: internet-drafts@ietf.org To: Cc: netmod@ietf.org X-Test-IDTracker: no X-IETF-IDTracker: 6.99.1 Auto-Submitted: auto-generated Precedence: bulk Reply-To: netmod@ietf.org Message-ID: <156374075648.20526.75079222214519351@ietfa.amsl.com> Date: Sun, 21 Jul 2019 13:25:56 -0700 Archived-At: Subject: [netmod] I-D Action: draft-ietf-netmod-rfc6991-bis-01.txt X-BeenThere: netmod@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 List-Id: NETMOD WG list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sun, 21 Jul 2019 20:25:57 -0000 A New Internet-Draft is available from the on-line Internet-Drafts directories. This draft is a work item of the Network Modeling WG of the IETF. Title : Common YANG Data Types Author : Juergen Schoenwaelder Filename : draft-ietf-netmod-rfc6991-bis-01.txt Pages : 46 Date : 2019-07-21 Abstract: This document introduces a collection of common data types to be used with the YANG data modeling language. This document obsoletes RFC 6991. The IETF datatracker status page for this draft is: https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-netmod-rfc6991-bis/ There are also htmlized versions available at: https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-netmod-rfc6991-bis-01 https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/html/draft-ietf-netmod-rfc6991-bis-01 A diff from the previous version is available at: https://www.ietf.org/rfcdiff?url2=draft-ietf-netmod-rfc6991-bis-01 Please note that it may take a couple of minutes from the time of submission until the htmlized version and diff are available at tools.ietf.org. Internet-Drafts are also available by anonymous FTP at: ftp://ftp.ietf.org/internet-drafts/ From nobody Sun Jul 21 13:30:56 2019 Return-Path: X-Original-To: netmod@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: netmod@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id AB77F120139 for ; Sun, 21 Jul 2019 13:30:53 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.898 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.898 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_NONE=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id GaJ9hO8y8nQi for ; Sun, 21 Jul 2019 13:30:51 -0700 (PDT) Received: from atlas5.jacobs-university.de (atlas5.jacobs-university.de [212.201.44.20]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ADH-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 374BE120147 for ; Sun, 21 Jul 2019 13:30:51 -0700 (PDT) Received: from localhost (demetrius5.irc-it.jacobs-university.de [10.70.0.222]) by atlas5.jacobs-university.de (Postfix) with ESMTP id 67688858; Sun, 21 Jul 2019 22:30:49 +0200 (CEST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at jacobs-university.de Received: from atlas5.jacobs-university.de ([10.70.0.198]) by localhost (demetrius5.jacobs-university.de [10.70.0.222]) (amavisd-new, port 10032) with ESMTP id O3uBFxRxpzJ5; Sun, 21 Jul 2019 22:30:49 +0200 (CEST) Received: from hermes.jacobs-university.de (hermes.jacobs-university.de [212.201.44.23]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (Client CN "hermes.jacobs-university.de", Issuer "DFN-Verein Global Issuing CA" (verified OK)) by atlas5.jacobs-university.de (Postfix) with ESMTPS; Sun, 21 Jul 2019 22:30:49 +0200 (CEST) Received: from localhost (demetrius5.irc-it.jacobs-university.de [10.70.0.222]) by hermes.jacobs-university.de (Postfix) with ESMTP id 212002012C; Sun, 21 Jul 2019 22:30:49 +0200 (CEST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at jacobs-university.de Received: from hermes.jacobs-university.de ([212.201.44.23]) by localhost (demetrius5.jacobs-university.de [10.70.0.222]) (amavisd-new, port 10028) with ESMTP id s4yRnbfHuzJR; Sun, 21 Jul 2019 22:30:48 +0200 (CEST) Received: from exchange.jacobs-university.de (sxchmb03.jacobs.jacobs-university.de [10.70.0.155]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (Client CN "exchange.jacobs-university.de", Issuer "DFN-Verein Global Issuing CA" (verified OK)) by hermes.jacobs-university.de (Postfix) with ESMTPS id CB29E20129; Sun, 21 Jul 2019 22:30:48 +0200 (CEST) Received: from anna.localdomain (10.50.218.117) by sxchmb03.jacobs.jacobs-university.de (10.70.0.155) with Microsoft SMTP Server (version=TLS1_2, cipher=TLS_ECDHE_RSA_WITH_AES_256_GCM_SHA384) id 15.1.1713.5; Sun, 21 Jul 2019 22:30:48 +0200 Received: by anna.localdomain (Postfix, from userid 501) id C9C432D9C12; Sun, 21 Jul 2019 22:30:47 +0200 (CEST) Date: Sun, 21 Jul 2019 22:30:47 +0200 From: Juergen Schoenwaelder To: Ladislav Lhotka CC: NETMOD WG Message-ID: <20190721203047.oufc3bcwnjsczhmk@anna.jacobs.jacobs-university.de> Reply-To: Juergen Schoenwaelder Mail-Followup-To: Ladislav Lhotka , NETMOD WG References: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: User-Agent: NeoMutt/20180716 X-ClientProxiedBy: SXCHMB02.jacobs.jacobs-university.de (10.70.0.121) To sxchmb03.jacobs.jacobs-university.de (10.70.0.155) Archived-At: Subject: Re: [netmod] 6991bis: domain-name X-BeenThere: netmod@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: NETMOD WG list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sun, 21 Jul 2019 20:30:54 -0000 Lada, I do not think we can simply enlarge the value set of inet:domain-name, existing implementations using inet:domain-name may (rightfully) not expect wildcards. What we can do is to create a new definition that has a larger value space. We can also consider to define inet:domain-name as a subset of such a larger type as long as it results in the same value space. /js On Fri, Mar 29, 2019 at 11:20:13AM +0100, Ladislav Lhotka wrote: > Hi, > > as a follow-up to my comment during the NETMOD session, I want to propose the > following update to the the inet:domain-name type. The aim is to include use > cases that are currently rejected: > > - classless in-addr.arpa delegations [RFC 2317], i.e. labels like "128/26" > > - wildcards [RFC 4592], e.g. "*.example.net" > > OLD > > pattern > '((([a-zA-Z0-9_]([a-zA-Z0-9\-_]){0,61})?[a-zA-Z0-9]\.)*' > + '([a-zA-Z0-9_]([a-zA-Z0-9\-_]){0,61})?[a-zA-Z0-9]\.?)' > + '|\.'; > > NEW > > pattern > '((\*\.)?(([a-zA-Z0-9_]([a-zA-Z0-9\-/_]){0,61})?[a-zA-Z0-9]\.)*' > + '([a-zA-Z0-9_]([a-zA-Z0-9\-/_]){0,61})?[a-zA-Z0-9]\.?)' > + '|\.'; > > Lada > > -- > Ladislav Lhotka > Head, CZ.NIC Labs > PGP Key ID: 0xB8F92B08A9F76C67 > > > > > _______________________________________________ > netmod mailing list > netmod@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/netmod -- Juergen Schoenwaelder Jacobs University Bremen gGmbH Phone: +49 421 200 3587 Campus Ring 1 | 28759 Bremen | Germany Fax: +49 421 200 3103 From nobody Sun Jul 21 13:31:05 2019 Return-Path: X-Original-To: netmod@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: netmod@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id A4FA1120165 for ; Sun, 21 Jul 2019 13:30:59 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.898 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.898 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_NONE=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 5oVz_J9BJIy4 for ; Sun, 21 Jul 2019 13:30:57 -0700 (PDT) Received: from atlas5.jacobs-university.de (atlas5.jacobs-university.de [212.201.44.20]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ADH-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 7F4B512017F for ; Sun, 21 Jul 2019 13:30:57 -0700 (PDT) Received: from localhost (demetrius5.irc-it.jacobs-university.de [10.70.0.222]) by atlas5.jacobs-university.de (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2FDB2858; Sun, 21 Jul 2019 22:30:56 +0200 (CEST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at jacobs-university.de Received: from atlas5.jacobs-university.de ([10.70.0.198]) by localhost (demetrius5.jacobs-university.de [10.70.0.222]) (amavisd-new, port 10032) with ESMTP id Pu9To5U34oxW; Sun, 21 Jul 2019 22:30:56 +0200 (CEST) Received: from hermes.jacobs-university.de (hermes.jacobs-university.de [212.201.44.23]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (Client CN "hermes.jacobs-university.de", Issuer "DFN-Verein Global Issuing CA" (verified OK)) by atlas5.jacobs-university.de (Postfix) with ESMTPS; Sun, 21 Jul 2019 22:30:56 +0200 (CEST) Received: from localhost (demetrius5.irc-it.jacobs-university.de [10.70.0.222]) by hermes.jacobs-university.de (Postfix) with ESMTP id 184BE2012C; Sun, 21 Jul 2019 22:30:56 +0200 (CEST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at jacobs-university.de Received: from hermes.jacobs-university.de ([212.201.44.23]) by localhost (demetrius5.jacobs-university.de [10.70.0.222]) (amavisd-new, port 10028) with ESMTP id IHFSbYiWwEDF; Sun, 21 Jul 2019 22:30:55 +0200 (CEST) Received: from exchange.jacobs-university.de (sxchmb04.jacobs.jacobs-university.de [10.70.0.156]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (Client CN "exchange.jacobs-university.de", Issuer "DFN-Verein Global Issuing CA" (verified OK)) by hermes.jacobs-university.de (Postfix) with ESMTPS id BD67520129; Sun, 21 Jul 2019 22:30:55 +0200 (CEST) Received: from anna.localdomain (10.50.218.117) by sxchmb03.jacobs.jacobs-university.de (10.70.0.155) with Microsoft SMTP Server (version=TLS1_2, cipher=TLS_ECDHE_RSA_WITH_AES_256_GCM_SHA384) id 15.1.1713.5; Sun, 21 Jul 2019 22:30:55 +0200 Received: by anna.localdomain (Postfix, from userid 501) id EF1E42D9C28; Sun, 21 Jul 2019 22:30:54 +0200 (CEST) Date: Sun, 21 Jul 2019 22:30:54 +0200 From: Juergen Schoenwaelder To: Ladislav Lhotka CC: NETMOD WG Message-ID: <20190721203054.igu3af2gg7o6qdhn@anna.jacobs.jacobs-university.de> Reply-To: Juergen Schoenwaelder Mail-Followup-To: Ladislav Lhotka , NETMOD WG References: <542f5183bee87d67247a111733fe7aeccf520085.camel@nic.cz> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <542f5183bee87d67247a111733fe7aeccf520085.camel@nic.cz> User-Agent: NeoMutt/20180716 X-ClientProxiedBy: SXCHMB01.jacobs.jacobs-university.de (10.70.0.120) To sxchmb03.jacobs.jacobs-university.de (10.70.0.155) Archived-At: Subject: Re: [netmod] 6991bis: host X-BeenThere: netmod@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: NETMOD WG list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sun, 21 Jul 2019 20:31:03 -0000 Lada, the definition of inet:domain-name already has text that Internet host names have a stricter syntax. Perhaps we should simply state explicitely in the definition of host that the stricter rules apply? I understand that you want to capture more in the definition itself. Perhaps this makes sense and is backwards compatible (for implementations that followed the advice in the descriptin of inet:domain-name). /js On Fri, Mar 29, 2019 at 03:29:05PM +0100, Ladislav Lhotka wrote: > Hi, > > the inet:host type should not use the inet:domain-name as its member because the > latter type doesn't satisfy the requirements of RFC 952 and 1123 on host names. > For example, the type now permits a single dot (".") as the value or the > underscore character. > > I propose to change the "host" type as follows: > > OLD > > typedef host { > type union { > type inet:ip-address; > type inet:domain-name; > } > ... > } > > NEW > > typedef host { > type union { > type inet:ip-address; > type inet:host-name; > } > ... > } > > A reasonable definition of "host-name" is IMO a domain name whose labels are NR- > LDH (non-registered letter-digit-hyphen label) [RFC 5890]: > > typedef host-name { > type string { > pattern > '((([a-zA-Z0-9]([a-zA-Z0-9\-]){0,61})?[a-zA-Z0-9]\.)*' > + '([a-zA-Z0-9]([a-zA-Z0-9\-]){0,61})?[a-zA-Z0-9]\.?)'; > pattern '(.*\.)?..\-\-.*' { > modifier invert-match; > } > length "2..253"; > ... > } > } > > Lada > > -- > Ladislav Lhotka > Head, CZ.NIC Labs > PGP Key ID: 0xB8F92B08A9F76C67 > > _______________________________________________ > netmod mailing list > netmod@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/netmod -- Juergen Schoenwaelder Jacobs University Bremen gGmbH Phone: +49 421 200 3587 Campus Ring 1 | 28759 Bremen | Germany Fax: +49 421 200 3103 From nobody Mon Jul 22 11:46:35 2019 Return-Path: X-Original-To: netmod@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: netmod@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6395E120131 for ; Mon, 22 Jul 2019 11:46:33 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -14.501 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-14.501 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_HI=-5, SPF_PASS=-0.001, USER_IN_DEF_DKIM_WL=-7.5] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); 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charset="utf-8" Content-ID: <1231459C4348284EB65C6CDD5DDA0ED2@namprd11.prod.outlook.com> Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-Network-Message-Id: be79e899-777b-4f66-0e4e-08d70ed4e881 X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-originalarrivaltime: 22 Jul 2019 18:46:29.1982 (UTC) X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-fromentityheader: Hosted X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-id: 5ae1af62-9505-4097-a69a-c1553ef7840e X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-mailboxtype: HOSTED X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-userprincipalname: jclarke@cisco.com X-MS-Exchange-Transport-CrossTenantHeadersStamped: CH2PR11MB4407 X-OriginatorOrg: cisco.com X-Outbound-SMTP-Client: 173.36.7.12, xch-aln-002.cisco.com X-Outbound-Node: alln-core-2.cisco.com Archived-At: Subject: [netmod] Instance data and annotations X-BeenThere: netmod@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: NETMOD WG list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 22 Jul 2019 18:46:34 -0000 SeKAmXZlIGhhZCBhIGNoYW5jZSB0byBkaWdlc3QgdGhlIHF1ZXN0aW9uIGFza2VkIGluIHRoZSBt ZWV0aW5nIGFib3V0IHNob3VsZCB0aGUgbGFzdC1tb2RpZmllZCBhbmQgZW50aXR5LXRhZyBzaG91 bGQgYmUgZGVmaW5lZCBpbiB0aGUgaW5zdGFuY2UgZGF0YSBkcmFmdC4NCg0KSSBmZWVsIHRoZXkg c2hvdWxkIGJlIHJlbW92ZWQgYW5kIG1vdmVkIHRvIGEgc2VwYXJhdGUgZHJhZnQuICBGaXJzdCwg dGhlIGRyYWZ0IGRvZXNu4oCZdCBwcmVzZW50IGEgdXNlIGNhc2UgZm9yIHRoZXNlLiAgVGhlcmUg aXMgYWxyZWFkeSBhbiBvdmVyYWxsIHRpbWVzdGFtcCBmaWVsZCwgd2hpY2ggcHJvdmlkZXMgbGFz dC1tb2RpZmllZCBmb3IgdGhlIHNldCBpdHNlbGYuICBGaW5hbGx5LCB0aGluayBvZiA4MDQwIGFu ZCB5YW5nLWRhdGEuICBIYXZpbmcgdG8gcHVsbCBpbiB0aGUgaW5zdGFuY2UgZGF0YSBkcmFmdCBq dXN0IHRvIGdldCB0aGVzZSBhbm5vdGF0aW9ucyBzZWVtcyB3YXN0ZWZ1bC4NCg0KSm9l From nobody Mon Jul 22 11:49:28 2019 Return-Path: X-Original-To: netmod@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: netmod@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6D97012012A for ; Mon, 22 Jul 2019 11:49:26 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.897 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.897 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_NONE=0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id I_WKp9UebRbx for ; Mon, 22 Jul 2019 11:49:24 -0700 (PDT) Received: from trail.lhotka.name (trail.lhotka.name [77.48.224.143]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6782E120131 for ; Mon, 22 Jul 2019 11:49:24 -0700 (PDT) Received: by trail.lhotka.name (Postfix, from userid 109) id 0C7B8182048A; Mon, 22 Jul 2019 20:47:52 +0200 (CEST) Received: from localhost (dhcp-8bbc.meeting.ietf.org [31.133.139.188]) by trail.lhotka.name (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id A6694182004A for ; Mon, 22 Jul 2019 20:47:50 +0200 (CEST) From: Ladislav Lhotka To: netmod@ietf.org In-Reply-To: <871s6wt1qw.fsf@nic.cz> References: <871s6wt1qw.fsf@nic.cz> Mail-Followup-To: netmod@ietf.org Date: Mon, 22 Jul 2019 14:49:18 -0400 Message-ID: <87pnm13nwx.fsf@nic.cz> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed Archived-At: Subject: Re: [netmod] status terms in YANG and IANA registries X-BeenThere: netmod@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: NETMOD WG list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 22 Jul 2019 18:49:26 -0000 Hi, I haven't received any responses to my message below but, given the recent discussion in DNSOP and IETF mailing list, I believe it is important to address this discrepancy in order not to give ammunition to those who oppose mirroring IANA registries in YANG modules. Lada Ladislav Lhotka writes: > Hi, > > sec. 7.21.2 of RFC 7950 defines the "deprecated" and "obsolete" > statuses as follows: > > o "deprecated" indicates an obsolete definition, but it > permits > new/continued implementation in order to foster > interoperability with older/existing implementations. > > o "obsolete" means that the definition is obsolete and > SHOULD NOT be > implemented and/or can be removed from implementations. > > Then, RFC 7224 contains these instructions in the IANA > Considerations section: > > "status": Include only if a registration has been > deprecated (use > the value "deprecated") or obsoleted (use the > value "obsolete"). > > However, RFC 8126 defines the meaning of the status terms in > IANA registries (sec. 9.6) in the following way: > > Specific entries in a registry can be marked as "obsolete" > (no longer in use) or "deprecated" (use is not recommended). > > I would say that "deprecated" means something else here than in > YANG. For example, the RSA/MD5 algorithm in [1] is marked as > "deprecated" because it was found weak, and implementing it to > "foster interoperability" can hardly be recommended. Instead, > "SHOULD NOT implement" applies here, too. > > I think it would be good to either align the semantics of > "deprecated" in YANG with IANA registries, or at least map both > IANA terms to "obsolete" in YANG. > > Lada > > [1] > https://www.iana.org/assignments/dns-sec-alg-numbers/dns-sec-alg-numbers.xhtml > > -- Ladislav Lhotka Head, CZ.NIC Labs PGP Key ID: > 0xB8F92B08A9F76C67 > > _______________________________________________ netmod mailing > list netmod@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/netmod -- Ladislav Lhotka Head, CZ.NIC Labs PGP Key ID: 0xB8F92B08A9F76C67 From nobody Mon Jul 22 12:08:48 2019 Return-Path: X-Original-To: netmod@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: netmod@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id BC44C1202B3 for ; Mon, 22 Jul 2019 12:08:40 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.897 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.897 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_NONE=0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id ifXCKScLS-SQ for ; 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Mon, 22 Jul 2019 21:08:35 +0200 (CEST) Received: from localhost (demetrius5.irc-it.jacobs-university.de [10.70.0.222]) by hermes.jacobs-university.de (Postfix) with ESMTP id B7FA62012C for ; Mon, 22 Jul 2019 21:08:35 +0200 (CEST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at jacobs-university.de Received: from hermes.jacobs-university.de ([212.201.44.23]) by localhost (demetrius5.jacobs-university.de [10.70.0.222]) (amavisd-new, port 10028) with ESMTP id KgYw50jNfnax for ; Mon, 22 Jul 2019 21:08:35 +0200 (CEST) Received: from exchange.jacobs-university.de (SXCHMB02.jacobs.jacobs-university.de [10.70.0.121]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (Client CN "exchange.jacobs-university.de", Issuer "DFN-Verein Global Issuing CA" (verified OK)) by hermes.jacobs-university.de (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 652BE20129 for ; Mon, 22 Jul 2019 21:08:35 +0200 (CEST) Received: from anna.localdomain (10.50.218.117) by sxchmb03.jacobs.jacobs-university.de (10.70.0.155) with Microsoft SMTP Server (version=TLS1_2, cipher=TLS_ECDHE_RSA_WITH_AES_256_GCM_SHA384) id 15.1.1713.5; Mon, 22 Jul 2019 21:08:34 +0200 Received: by anna.localdomain (Postfix, from userid 501) id 87FDB2DC623; Mon, 22 Jul 2019 21:08:34 +0200 (CEST) Date: Mon, 22 Jul 2019 21:08:34 +0200 From: Juergen Schoenwaelder To: Message-ID: <20190722190834.shen3ajylbxlr5e7@anna.jacobs.jacobs-university.de> Reply-To: Juergen Schoenwaelder Mail-Followup-To: netmod@ietf.org References: <871s6wt1qw.fsf@nic.cz> <87pnm13nwx.fsf@nic.cz> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <87pnm13nwx.fsf@nic.cz> User-Agent: NeoMutt/20180716 X-ClientProxiedBy: SXCHMB02.jacobs.jacobs-university.de (10.70.0.121) To sxchmb03.jacobs.jacobs-university.de (10.70.0.155) Archived-At: Subject: Re: [netmod] status terms in YANG and IANA registries X-BeenThere: netmod@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: NETMOD WG list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 22 Jul 2019 19:08:47 -0000 Lada, it seems the IANA 'deprecated' and 'obsolete' as defined in RFC 8126 section 9.6 both map to YANG's 'obsolete'. /js On Mon, Jul 22, 2019 at 02:49:18PM -0400, Ladislav Lhotka wrote: > Hi, > > I haven't received any responses to my message below but, given the recent > discussion in DNSOP and IETF mailing list, I believe it is important to > address this discrepancy in order not to give ammunition to those who oppose > mirroring IANA registries in YANG modules. > > Lada > > Ladislav Lhotka writes: > > > Hi, > > > > sec. 7.21.2 of RFC 7950 defines the "deprecated" and "obsolete" statuses > > as follows: > > > > o "deprecated" indicates an obsolete definition, but it permits > > new/continued implementation in order to foster interoperability > > with older/existing implementations. > > > > o "obsolete" means that the definition is obsolete and SHOULD NOT > > be implemented and/or can be removed from implementations. > > > > Then, RFC 7224 contains these instructions in the IANA Considerations > > section: > > > > "status": Include only if a registration has been deprecated > > (use the value "deprecated") or obsoleted (use the > > value "obsolete"). > > > > However, RFC 8126 defines the meaning of the status terms in IANA > > registries (sec. 9.6) in the following way: > > > > Specific entries in a registry can be marked as "obsolete" (no > > longer in use) or "deprecated" (use is not recommended). > > > > I would say that "deprecated" means something else here than in YANG. > > For example, the RSA/MD5 algorithm in [1] is marked as "deprecated" > > because it was found weak, and implementing it to "foster > > interoperability" can hardly be recommended. Instead, "SHOULD NOT > > implement" applies here, too. > > > > I think it would be good to either align the semantics of "deprecated" > > in YANG with IANA registries, or at least map both IANA terms to > > "obsolete" in YANG. > > > > Lada > > > > [1] https://www.iana.org/assignments/dns-sec-alg-numbers/dns-sec-alg-numbers.xhtml > > > > -- Ladislav Lhotka Head, CZ.NIC Labs PGP Key ID: 0xB8F92B08A9F76C67 > > > > _______________________________________________ netmod mailing list > > netmod@ietf.org https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/netmod > > -- > Ladislav Lhotka Head, CZ.NIC Labs PGP Key ID: 0xB8F92B08A9F76C67 > > _______________________________________________ > netmod mailing list > netmod@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/netmod -- Juergen Schoenwaelder Jacobs University Bremen gGmbH Phone: +49 421 200 3587 Campus Ring 1 | 28759 Bremen | Germany Fax: +49 421 200 3103 From nobody Mon Jul 22 12:10:09 2019 Return-Path: X-Original-To: netmod@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: netmod@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5DBD0120125 for ; Mon, 22 Jul 2019 12:10:08 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -6.997 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-6.997 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_HI=-5, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_NONE=0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (1024-bit key) header.d=nic.cz Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 0dM2v-fUa-87 for ; Mon, 22 Jul 2019 12:10:06 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail.nic.cz (mail.nic.cz [IPv6:2001:1488:800:400::400]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 928FD12011B for ; Mon, 22 Jul 2019 12:10:06 -0700 (PDT) Received: from birdie (unknown [IPv6:2001:67c:370:128:e0e6:7446:b50f:deb9]) by mail.nic.cz (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id BFBB6140B77; Mon, 22 Jul 2019 21:10:04 +0200 (CEST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/simple; d=nic.cz; s=default; t=1563822605; bh=/P3dn8AikxDkUEHupLPif8YG8l0uUb1/VuNaYYbuzY8=; h=From:To:Date; b=iJ8EYFPjF4y7Vu5UngxcMc7nq/mKfldtf5tN5tZ9tXACRRRy15TP7yitp9TF5mpD3 a9xJ4nQfvXDIDxGVyCKmOqvNjJxKBFVwABEp1NtX1Difckza4Gqm1//WOvUtWn59by B1ck+nAAAJqJ2ce6tK8dYY3HStH+cm1p9uA9P4D0= Message-ID: From: Ladislav Lhotka To: "Joe Clarke (jclarke)" , "netmod@ietf.org" Date: Mon, 22 Jul 2019 15:10:02 -0400 In-Reply-To: <11AD0955-E7A6-4BB9-A9D1-463636B4076D@cisco.com> References: <11AD0955-E7A6-4BB9-A9D1-463636B4076D@cisco.com> Organization: CZ.NIC Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" User-Agent: Evolution 3.32.4 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Virus-Scanned: clamav-milter 0.100.3 at mail.nic.cz X-Virus-Status: Clean Archived-At: Subject: Re: [netmod] Instance data and annotations X-BeenThere: netmod@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: NETMOD WG list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 22 Jul 2019 19:10:08 -0000 On Mon, 2019-07-22 at 18:46 +0000, Joe Clarke (jclarke) wrote: > I’ve had a chance to digest the question asked in the meeting about should the > last-modified and entity-tag should be defined in the instance data draft. > > I feel they should be removed and moved to a separate draft. First, the draft > doesn’t present a use case for these. There is already an overall timestamp > field, which provides last-modified for the set itself. Finally, think of > 8040 and yang-data. Having to pull in the instance data draft just to get > these annotations seems wasteful. Agreed. I simply don't see entity-tag and last-modified as something generally useful. Out of the nine use cases mentioned in the draft, only two of them (UC5 and UC7) can potentially make use of them. Lada > > Joe > _______________________________________________ > netmod mailing list > netmod@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/netmod -- Ladislav Lhotka Head, CZ.NIC Labs PGP Key ID: 0xB8F92B08A9F76C67 From nobody Mon Jul 22 12:24:08 2019 Return-Path: X-Original-To: netmod@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: netmod@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 09A4812011B for ; Mon, 22 Jul 2019 12:24:06 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIMWL_WL_HIGH=-0.001, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (1024-bit key) header.d=ericsson.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id C6ewulNCaaHz for ; Mon, 22 Jul 2019 12:24:02 -0700 (PDT) Received: from EUR01-HE1-obe.outbound.protection.outlook.com (mail-he1eur01on062b.outbound.protection.outlook.com [IPv6:2a01:111:f400:fe1e::62b]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 382AA12004E for ; Mon, 22 Jul 2019 12:24:02 -0700 (PDT) ARC-Seal: i=1; a=rsa-sha256; s=arcselector9901; d=microsoft.com; cv=none; b=NT5A+VZWP2oBtE9fS2GN4O0Mb4VSapyJza1vkUZU2tZAbNlX+CdVYLlH/hAB9H2k3M2CT3MNiUJfoO3A8UtLzZfP7iKhR2RKeOaSCLTKn1LhFH+ST6y+2ToS/FkGuYoSiIWrSPtO0z3ieVokCNW2UWKzESfFfXVhHUFfhv6UJZ0+PAkcldEFrNn6m5/6trmKxaZd8kCjB0wHCXz0Z5G40fJmlejG0ZKgft0b0EoOd1Z5aHd2GixGHr8JhlGwY9Z7W5cuUgAfjBWN73/qUMHNtvahiPDxStfkNY7Bn7Whq7XIK+S5nRPMG18qWwDTTxNgZr3N3q6DrpziT5irBIPzhQ== ARC-Message-Signature: i=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=microsoft.com; s=arcselector9901; h=From:Date:Subject:Message-ID:Content-Type:MIME-Version:X-MS-Exchange-SenderADCheck; bh=+MpgMGGbCv3IcZOzp17c3JRO8lZH07wJezKVbm3I1CU=; b=fMa5e1+J6zAgPKLsauKGPwPOGuTPGo8MvEF4YJMap76oBMpvG+xTasMl5tMkeGP/GzkZQL9su0tm5gXD+D6Ypgjkd5fEJyTDX3yH7t8XOnr9WhDNCy/Gjzrglajb/0X28ndjM+ON/vg+rRMMwT/9Dtppr3eDajDSgI3lA+BakSwfbNJNK4DhC4LkagoZnR1FDbu5KIjN/4bsdct1yM5gw9mXCndm/Ukeebj6LcYI3SyB30qCvMYIzQ6KEC0YYxFinVg/6y6C9OuY+16OGqoDh1DiGWpF2gvFGhWlkMGQ/kC9jz/7BIZZzLwt0AQbWo0BFkI19XI3qQnjYdEiUe1c3w== ARC-Authentication-Results: i=1; mx.microsoft.com 1;spf=pass smtp.mailfrom=ericsson.com;dmarc=pass action=none header.from=ericsson.com;dkim=pass header.d=ericsson.com;arc=none DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=ericsson.com; s=selector2; h=From:Date:Subject:Message-ID:Content-Type:MIME-Version:X-MS-Exchange-SenderADCheck; bh=+MpgMGGbCv3IcZOzp17c3JRO8lZH07wJezKVbm3I1CU=; b=XPJisO0iCkqSxDWOGysS6FAPz9pvXojkV5PTs3tbpWbftO60tgCg1DKOKpAkHarDA/m3wR8tWNoADYkVeAO5PyaPCeskjZLge31R/aP48lmoQMuyD0Xckq7WfIEdqR9SGAK06uqbB5mcLbQ37pzxZU6qc/M/AGxFSxd1+BZJqgo= Received: from VI1PR0701MB2286.eurprd07.prod.outlook.com (10.169.137.153) by VI1PR0701MB2527.eurprd07.prod.outlook.com (10.168.139.140) with Microsoft SMTP Server (version=TLS1_2, cipher=TLS_ECDHE_RSA_WITH_AES_256_GCM_SHA384) id 15.20.2115.9; Mon, 22 Jul 2019 19:23:59 +0000 Received: from VI1PR0701MB2286.eurprd07.prod.outlook.com ([fe80::5556:4c20:cd8d:686a]) by VI1PR0701MB2286.eurprd07.prod.outlook.com ([fe80::5556:4c20:cd8d:686a%11]) with mapi id 15.20.2115.005; Mon, 22 Jul 2019 19:23:59 +0000 From: =?iso-8859-1?Q?Bal=E1zs_Lengyel?= To: "netmod@ietf.org" Thread-Topic: Instance-data-format - shall we define etag and last-modified annotation ? 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X-BeenThere: netmod@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: NETMOD WG list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 22 Jul 2019 19:24:06 -0000 ------=_NextPart_000_027A_01D540A1.7A696EE0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_001_027B_01D540A1.7A696EE0" ------=_NextPart_001_027B_01D540A1.7A696EE0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hello, Restconf (rfc8040) defined to useful bits of metadata about a YANG = defined datastore: entity-tag and the last-modified timestamp. These can be very useful in instance data sets, however Restconf defines = an encoding for these (as part of the http headers) that can not be used in instance-data-sets. draft-ietf-netmod-yang-instance-file-format-03#section-7.2 defines metadata annotations for these two, that can be used in instance data md:annotation entity-tag { type string; description "Used to encode the entity-tag =85"; } md:annotation last-modified { type yang:date-and-time; description "Contains the date and time when the annotated instance was last modified (or created)."; } In order to be able to include this data, the annotations need to be = defined in some YANG module. =20 The question has been raised whether=20 1. these annotations should be defined in the ietf-yang-instance-data module as it needs them, as that is open or 2. the annotations should be defined in another draft in a separate YANG module as any other annotation The first option is better because the instance-data needs these annotations, and at this point we see no other user for the annotation, = and in this case the ongoing instance data draft will define it The second option is better because, if later there are other users for these annotations, it might be strange to reference the ietf-yang-instance-data module. Also why provide special treatment to = these 2 annotations? =20 The authors support option 1 and don=92t have the time to start a new = draft to define these annotations. On IETF105 in the room there was more support for option 1.=20 =20 Please indicate if you have an opinion about the choice of 1 or 2 =20 Regards Balazs =20 ------=_NextPart_001_027B_01D540A1.7A696EE0 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

Hello,

Restconf = (rfc8040) defined to useful bits of metadata about a YANG defined = datastore: entity-tag and the last-modified timestamp.

These can be very useful in instance data sets, = however Restconf defines an encoding for these (as part of the http = headers) that can not be used in instance-data-sets.

draft-ietf-netmod-yang-instance-file-format-03#sec= tion-7.2=A0=A0=A0 defines metadata annotations for these two, that = can be used in instance data

=A0 md:annotation =
entity-tag {
=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0 type =
string;
=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0 description "Used to =
encode the entity-tag …";
=A0=A0=A0 =
}
=A0=A0=A0 md:annotation last-modified =
{
=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0 type =
yang:date-and-time;
=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0 description =
"Contains the date and time when the =
annotated
=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0 instance was last =
modified (or created).";
=A0=A0=A0 =
}

In order to be able to include = this data, the annotations need to be defined in some YANG = module.

 

The question has been raised whether =

  1. these annotations should be defined in the ietf-yang-instance-data = module as it needs them, as that is open or
  2. the annotations should be defined in another draft in a separate = YANG module as any other annotation

The first option is better because the instance-data = needs these annotations, and at this point we see no other user for the = annotation, and in this case the ongoing instance data draft will define = it

The second option is better = because, if later there are other users for these annotations, it might = be strange to reference the ietf-yang-instance-data module. Also why = provide special treatment to these 2 annotations?

 

The authors = support option 1 and don’t have the time to start a new draft to = define these annotations.

On IETF105 = in the room there was more support for option 1.

 

Please = indicate if you have an opinion about the choice of 1 or = 2

 

Regards Balazs

 

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netmod@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id D99F112008F for ; Mon, 22 Jul 2019 12:28:25 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -6.997 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-6.997 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_HI=-5, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_NONE=0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (1024-bit key) header.d=nic.cz Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id rAjCfSSWhIyG for ; Mon, 22 Jul 2019 12:28:23 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail.nic.cz (mail.nic.cz [217.31.204.67]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id CCC3E12004E for ; Mon, 22 Jul 2019 12:28:22 -0700 (PDT) Received: from birdie (unknown [IPv6:2001:67c:370:128:e0e6:7446:b50f:deb9]) by mail.nic.cz (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 60100140B77; Mon, 22 Jul 2019 21:28:20 +0200 (CEST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/simple; d=nic.cz; s=default; t=1563823700; bh=GGoDnmXK2KwFTqrZuV4nxCaAD24mRHKHtlPePf8pllw=; h=From:To:Date; b=YTvDJUFrtOUSVJqH4ErNH47ivieKBTRCBjKbz+78hEVf06SZPcX7GjmrU7nNQO297 qvWoguszXSDbfECbtXpkGk/S7kP19Y1WRZqxpHIeO2zi4HjVWALEAFFDOefaEgvRlW bzhT2teEbiYVG+cFm/EIcAXghwMYaK+tREwqAgTg= Message-ID: From: Ladislav Lhotka To: Juergen Schoenwaelder , netmod@ietf.org Date: Mon, 22 Jul 2019 15:28:18 -0400 In-Reply-To: <20190722190834.shen3ajylbxlr5e7@anna.jacobs.jacobs-university.de> References: <871s6wt1qw.fsf@nic.cz> <87pnm13nwx.fsf@nic.cz> <20190722190834.shen3ajylbxlr5e7@anna.jacobs.jacobs-university.de> Organization: CZ.NIC Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" User-Agent: Evolution 3.32.4 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Virus-Scanned: clamav-milter 0.100.3 at mail.nic.cz X-Virus-Status: Clean Archived-At: Subject: Re: [netmod] status terms in YANG and IANA registries X-BeenThere: netmod@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: NETMOD WG list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 22 Jul 2019 19:28:26 -0000 On Mon, 2019-07-22 at 21:08 +0200, Juergen Schoenwaelder wrote: > Lada, > > it seems the IANA 'deprecated' and 'obsolete' as defined in RFC 8126 > section 9.6 both map to YANG's 'obsolete'. Yes, a short-term fix (e.g. for iana-dns-class-rr-type that is now in DNSOP WG) could indeed be to map IANA's "deprecated" to "obsolete". But of course it is seriously confusing. BTW, it is already weird that YANG defines "deprecated" in terms of "obsolete", which is another status term being defined. Lada > > /js > > On Mon, Jul 22, 2019 at 02:49:18PM -0400, Ladislav Lhotka wrote: > > Hi, > > > > I haven't received any responses to my message below but, given the recent > > discussion in DNSOP and IETF mailing list, I believe it is important to > > address this discrepancy in order not to give ammunition to those who oppose > > mirroring IANA registries in YANG modules. > > > > Lada > > > > Ladislav Lhotka writes: > > > > > Hi, > > > > > > sec. 7.21.2 of RFC 7950 defines the "deprecated" and "obsolete" statuses > > > as follows: > > > > > > o "deprecated" indicates an obsolete definition, but it permits > > > new/continued implementation in order to foster interoperability > > > with older/existing implementations. > > > > > > o "obsolete" means that the definition is obsolete and SHOULD NOT > > > be implemented and/or can be removed from implementations. > > > > > > Then, RFC 7224 contains these instructions in the IANA Considerations > > > section: > > > > > > "status": Include only if a registration has been deprecated > > > (use the value "deprecated") or obsoleted (use the > > > value "obsolete"). > > > > > > However, RFC 8126 defines the meaning of the status terms in IANA > > > registries (sec. 9.6) in the following way: > > > > > > Specific entries in a registry can be marked as "obsolete" (no > > > longer in use) or "deprecated" (use is not recommended). > > > > > > I would say that "deprecated" means something else here than in YANG. > > > For example, the RSA/MD5 algorithm in [1] is marked as "deprecated" > > > because it was found weak, and implementing it to "foster > > > interoperability" can hardly be recommended. Instead, "SHOULD NOT > > > implement" applies here, too. > > > > > > I think it would be good to either align the semantics of "deprecated" > > > in YANG with IANA registries, or at least map both IANA terms to > > > "obsolete" in YANG. > > > > > > Lada > > > > > > [1] > > > https://www.iana.org/assignments/dns-sec-alg-numbers/dns-sec-alg-numbers.xhtml > > > > > > -- Ladislav Lhotka Head, CZ.NIC Labs PGP Key ID: 0xB8F92B08A9F76C67 > > > > > > _______________________________________________ netmod mailing list > > > netmod@ietf.org https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/netmod > > > > -- > > Ladislav Lhotka Head, CZ.NIC Labs PGP Key ID: 0xB8F92B08A9F76C67 > > > > _______________________________________________ > > netmod mailing list > > netmod@ietf.org > > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/netmod -- Ladislav Lhotka Head, CZ.NIC Labs PGP Key ID: 0xB8F92B08A9F76C67 From nobody Mon Jul 22 13:13:14 2019 Return-Path: X-Original-To: netmod@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: netmod@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1CAD7120125 for ; 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Mon, 22 Jul 2019 20:13:07 +0000 From: =?iso-8859-1?Q?Bal=E1zs_Lengyel?= To: "'netmod@ietf.org'" Thread-Topic: Instance-data-format -additional simplified format to define content schema Thread-Index: AdVAya70t7DO6UXsR/K+POkwpw7dKA== Date: Mon, 22 Jul 2019 20:13:07 +0000 Message-ID: Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: yes X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: authentication-results: spf=none (sender IP is ) smtp.mailfrom=balazs.lengyel@ericsson.com; x-originating-ip: [31.133.153.243] x-ms-publictraffictype: Email x-ms-office365-filtering-correlation-id: c47435ac-d296-4865-46e8-08d70ee10323 x-microsoft-antispam: BCL:0; PCL:0; RULEID:(2390118)(7020095)(4652040)(8989299)(4534185)(4627221)(201703031133081)(201702281549075)(8990200)(5600148)(711020)(4605104)(1401327)(2017052603328)(49563074)(7193020); SRVR:VI1PR0701MB2240; x-ms-traffictypediagnostic: VI1PR0701MB2240: x-microsoft-antispam-prvs: x-ms-oob-tlc-oobclassifiers: OLM:8882; x-forefront-prvs: 01068D0A20 x-forefront-antispam-report: SFV:NSPM; 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protocol="application/x-pkcs7-signature"; micalg=SHA1; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0286_01D540A8.587873B0" MIME-Version: 1.0 X-OriginatorOrg: ericsson.com X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-Network-Message-Id: c47435ac-d296-4865-46e8-08d70ee10323 X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-originalarrivaltime: 22 Jul 2019 20:13:07.7519 (UTC) X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-fromentityheader: Hosted X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-id: 92e84ceb-fbfd-47ab-be52-080c6b87953f X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-mailboxtype: HOSTED X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-userprincipalname: balazs.lengyel@ericsson.com X-MS-Exchange-Transport-CrossTenantHeadersStamped: VI1PR0701MB2240 Archived-At: Subject: [netmod] Instance-data-format -additional simplified format to define content schema X-BeenThere: netmod@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: NETMOD WG list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 22 Jul 2019 20:13:13 -0000 ------=_NextPart_000_0286_01D540A8.587873B0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_001_0287_01D540A8.587873B0" ------=_NextPart_001_0287_01D540A8.587873B0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hello, At the IETF 105 Netmod meeting it was stated that the flexible solution = to define the context schema inline (requested earlier on the mailing list) = is quite complex, so a fourth simpler method to define content schema = inline is needed. The fourth method would add one more choice to =93choice = content-schema-spec =93 =20 case simplified-inline { leaf-list module { type string { pattern '.+@\d{4}-\d{2}-\d{2}\.yang'; } description =93The list of content defining YANG=20 modules including the revision date for each.=20 Usage of this leaf-list implies the modules are=20 used without any deviations and with all features=20 supported.=94; } } =20 An example instant data example could be: read-only-acm-rules ietf-yang-library@2019-01-04.yang ietf-netconf-acm@2012-02-22.yang 1776-07-04 Initial version Access control rules for a read-only role. ... =20 Do you like it ? Adding this case are you OK with the = content-schema-spec definition? Regards Balazs ------=_NextPart_001_0287_01D540A8.587873B0 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

Hello,

At the IETF = 105 Netmod meeting it was stated that the flexible solution to define = the context schema inline (requested earlier on the mailing list) is = quite complex, so a fourth simpler method to define content schema = inline is needed.

The fourth method = would add one more choice to “choice content-schema-spec =A0=A0“

 

case = simplified-inline {

=A0 leaf-list = module =A0{

=A0=A0=A0 type = string {

=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0 = pattern '.+@\d{4}-\d{2}-\d{2}\.yang';

=A0=A0=A0=A0 }

=A0=A0=A0=A0 = description “The list of content defining YANG =

=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0modules including the revision date for each. =

=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0Usage of this leaf-list implies the modules = are

=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0used without any deviations and with all = features

=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0supported.”;

=A0 }

}

 

An example = instant data example could be:

<instance-data-set = xmlns=3D"urn:...:ietf-yang-instance-data">=

=A0 = <name>read-only-acm-rules</name>

=A0 = <module>ietf-yang-library@2019-01-04.yang</module>= 

=A0 =
<module>ietf-netconf-acm@2012-02-22.yang</module><=
/pre>
=A0 <revision>
 =
=A0=A0=A0<date>1776-07-04</date>
=A0=A0=A0=
 <description>Initial =
version</description>
=A0 =
</revision>
=A0 <description>Access =
control rules for a read-only =
role.</description>
=A0 =
<content-data>...
 
Do you like =
it ? Adding this case are you OK with the content-schema-spec =
definition?
Regards =
Balazs
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netmod@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2625B1200DE for ; Mon, 22 Jul 2019 13:15:16 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.897 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.897 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_NONE=0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 44093bmPXRz8 for ; Mon, 22 Jul 2019 13:15:14 -0700 (PDT) Received: from atlas5.jacobs-university.de (atlas5.jacobs-university.de [212.201.44.20]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ADH-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id A43BC12008F for ; Mon, 22 Jul 2019 13:15:13 -0700 (PDT) Received: from localhost (demetrius5.irc-it.jacobs-university.de 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hermes.jacobs-university.de ([212.201.44.23]) by localhost (demetrius5.jacobs-university.de [10.70.0.222]) (amavisd-new, port 10028) with ESMTP id xmZV3swC-IMC; Mon, 22 Jul 2019 22:15:11 +0200 (CEST) Received: from exchange.jacobs-university.de (sxchmb03.jacobs.jacobs-university.de [10.70.0.155]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (Client CN "exchange.jacobs-university.de", Issuer "DFN-Verein Global Issuing CA" (verified OK)) by hermes.jacobs-university.de (Postfix) with ESMTPS id B88D020129; Mon, 22 Jul 2019 22:15:11 +0200 (CEST) Received: from anna.localdomain (10.50.218.117) by sxchmb03.jacobs.jacobs-university.de (10.70.0.155) with Microsoft SMTP Server (version=TLS1_2, cipher=TLS_ECDHE_RSA_WITH_AES_256_GCM_SHA384) id 15.1.1713.5; Mon, 22 Jul 2019 22:15:11 +0200 Received: by anna.localdomain (Postfix, from userid 501) id D686D2DC918; Mon, 22 Jul 2019 22:15:10 +0200 (CEST) Date: Mon, 22 Jul 2019 22:15:10 +0200 From: Juergen Schoenwaelder To: =?utf-8?Q?Bal=C3=A1zs?= Lengyel CC: "netmod@ietf.org" Message-ID: <20190722201510.mom7xg2mdi2ulbby@anna.jacobs.jacobs-university.de> Reply-To: Juergen Schoenwaelder Mail-Followup-To: =?utf-8?Q?Bal=C3=A1zs?= Lengyel , "netmod@ietf.org" References: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: User-Agent: NeoMutt/20180716 X-ClientProxiedBy: SXCHMB02.jacobs.jacobs-university.de (10.70.0.121) To sxchmb03.jacobs.jacobs-university.de (10.70.0.155) X-Clacks-Overhead: GNU Terry Pratchett Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Archived-At: Subject: Re: [netmod] Instance-data-format - shall we define etag and last-modified annotation ? X-BeenThere: netmod@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: NETMOD WG list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 22 Jul 2019 20:15:16 -0000 On Mon, Jul 22, 2019 at 07:23:59PM +0000, Bal=E1zs Lengyel wrote: > Hello, >=20 > Restconf (rfc8040) defined to useful bits of metadata about a YANG defi= ned > datastore: entity-tag and the last-modified timestamp. >=20 > These can be very useful in instance data sets, however Restconf define= s an > encoding for these (as part of the http headers) that can not be used i= n > instance-data-sets. This may actually point out a flaw or omission of RFC 8527. RFC 8040 defines an entity-tag for its "unified" datastore and it says "if the RESTCONF server is co-located with a NETCONF server, then this entity-tag MUST be for the "running" datastore". So it is a bit unclear what happens with other NMDA datastores and I did not quickly find something in RFC 8527. (For example, can have a distinct etag for ? =20 > draft-ietf-netmod-yang-instance-file-format-03#section-7.2 > section-7.2> defines metadata annotations for these two, that can b= e > used in instance data >=20 > md:annotation entity-tag { > type string; > description "Used to encode the entity-tag =85"; > } > md:annotation last-modified { > type yang:date-and-time; > description "Contains the date and time when the annotated > instance was last modified (or created)."; > } >=20 > In order to be able to include this data, the annotations need to be de= fined > in some YANG module. >=20 > The question has been raised whether=20 >=20 > 1. these annotations should be defined in the ietf-yang-instance-data > module as it needs them, as that is open or > 2. the annotations should be defined in another draft in a separate > YANG module as any other annotation >=20 > The first option is better because the instance-data needs these > annotations, and at this point we see no other user for the annotation,= and > in this case the ongoing instance data draft will define it >=20 > The second option is better because, if later there are other users for > these annotations, it might be strange to reference the > ietf-yang-instance-data module. Also why provide special treatment to t= hese > 2 annotations? >=20 > The authors support option 1 and don=92t have the time to start a new d= raft to > define these annotations. >=20 > On IETF105 in the room there was more support for option 1.=20 >=20 > Please indicate if you have an opinion about the choice of 1 or 2 Version -03 only defines these annotations but does not do anything specific with these definitions. So if the annotations are defined elsewhere, the ID is as complete as before. If entity-tag and last-modified are actually seen as datastore properties, it would be nice to have them defined in the NMDA documents (and it seems we overlooked this when we did the NMDA work). I think this needs a bit of discussion whether these are actually seen as datastore properties. But in this case, I would lean towards option 2. /js --=20 Juergen Schoenwaelder Jacobs University Bremen gGmbH Phone: +49 421 200 3587 Campus Ring 1 | 28759 Bremen | Germany Fax: +49 421 200 3103 From nobody Mon Jul 22 13:55:48 2019 Return-Path: X-Original-To: netmod@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: netmod@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 584141200A3 for ; Mon, 22 Jul 2019 13:55:45 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.897 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.897 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_NONE=0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id iLrfN5kQgHV2 for ; Mon, 22 Jul 2019 13:55:42 -0700 (PDT) Received: from trail.lhotka.name (trail.lhotka.name [77.48.224.143]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7E74A12008C for ; Mon, 22 Jul 2019 13:55:42 -0700 (PDT) Received: by trail.lhotka.name (Postfix, from userid 109) id 8BC26182048B; Mon, 22 Jul 2019 22:54:09 +0200 (CEST) Received: from localhost (dhcp-8bbc.meeting.ietf.org [31.133.139.188]) by trail.lhotka.name (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id C5543182004A; Mon, 22 Jul 2019 22:54:05 +0200 (CEST) From: Ladislav Lhotka To: Juergen Schoenwaelder Cc: NETMOD WG In-Reply-To: <20190721203047.oufc3bcwnjsczhmk@anna.jacobs.jacobs-university.de> References: <20190721203047.oufc3bcwnjsczhmk@anna.jacobs.jacobs-university.de> Mail-Followup-To: Juergen Schoenwaelder , NETMOD WG Date: Mon, 22 Jul 2019 16:55:33 -0400 Message-ID: <87muh53i2i.fsf@nic.cz> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed Archived-At: Subject: Re: [netmod] 6991bis: domain-name X-BeenThere: netmod@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: NETMOD WG list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 22 Jul 2019 20:55:46 -0000 Juergen Schoenwaelder writes: > Lada, > > I do not think we can simply enlarge the value set of > inet:domain-name, existing implementations using > inet:domain-name may (rightfully) not expect wildcards. On the other hand, the description says: It is designed to hold various types of domain names, including names used for A or AAAA records (host names) and other records, ... So one could expect that all values that can appear e.g. in A/AAAA records of DNS zone data are supported, which is not the case. > > What we can do is to create a new definition that has a larger > value space. We can also consider to define inet:domain-name as > a subset of such a larger type as long as it results in the same > value space. My suggestion is to remove the above sentence from the description in the next revision, and leave the rest to DNS folks. There are other interesting issues, such as how to model internationalized domain names. Lada > > /js > > On Fri, Mar 29, 2019 at 11:20:13AM +0100, Ladislav Lhotka wrote: >> Hi, as a follow-up to my comment during the NETMOD session, I >> want to propose the following update to the the >> inet:domain-name type. The aim is to include use cases that are >> currently rejected: - classless in-addr.arpa delegations [RFC >> 2317], i.e. labels like "128/26" - wildcards [RFC 4592], >> e.g. "*.example.net" OLD >> pattern >> '((([a-zA-Z0-9_]([a-zA-Z0-9\-_]){0,61})?[a-zA-Z0-9]\.)*' >> + '([a-zA-Z0-9_]([a-zA-Z0-9\-_]){0,61})?[a-zA-Z0-9]\.?)' + >> '|\.'; >> NEW >> pattern >> '((\*\.)?(([a-zA-Z0-9_]([a-zA-Z0-9\-/_]){0,61})?[a-zA-Z0-9]\.)*' >> + '([a-zA-Z0-9_]([a-zA-Z0-9\-/_]){0,61})?[a-zA-Z0-9]\.?)' >> + '|\.'; >> Lada -- Ladislav Lhotka Head, CZ.NIC Labs PGP Key ID: >> 0xB8F92B08A9F76C67 >> _______________________________________________ netmod mailing >> list netmod@ietf.org >> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/netmod > > -- Juergen Schoenwaelder Jacobs University Bremen > gGmbH Phone: +49 421 200 3587 Campus Ring 1 | 28759 > Bremen | Germany Fax: +49 421 200 3103 > -- Ladislav Lhotka Head, CZ.NIC Labs PGP Key ID: 0xB8F92B08A9F76C67 From nobody Mon Jul 22 14:05:56 2019 Return-Path: X-Original-To: netmod@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: netmod@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 67C3712011B for ; Mon, 22 Jul 2019 14:05:53 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.897 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.897 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_NONE=0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id tiPlmf_L3b9K for ; Mon, 22 Jul 2019 14:05:51 -0700 (PDT) Received: from trail.lhotka.name (trail.lhotka.name [77.48.224.143]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 719C81200FD for ; Mon, 22 Jul 2019 14:05:51 -0700 (PDT) Received: by trail.lhotka.name (Postfix, from userid 109) id 776AD182048B; Mon, 22 Jul 2019 23:04:18 +0200 (CEST) Received: from localhost (dhcp-8bbc.meeting.ietf.org [31.133.139.188]) by trail.lhotka.name (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 5321C1820073; Mon, 22 Jul 2019 23:04:15 +0200 (CEST) From: Ladislav Lhotka To: Juergen Schoenwaelder Cc: NETMOD WG In-Reply-To: <20190721203054.igu3af2gg7o6qdhn@anna.jacobs.jacobs-university.de> References: <542f5183bee87d67247a111733fe7aeccf520085.camel@nic.cz> <20190721203054.igu3af2gg7o6qdhn@anna.jacobs.jacobs-university.de> Mail-Followup-To: Juergen Schoenwaelder , NETMOD WG Date: Mon, 22 Jul 2019 17:05:44 -0400 Message-ID: <87imrt3hlj.fsf@nic.cz> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed Archived-At: Subject: Re: [netmod] 6991bis: host X-BeenThere: netmod@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: NETMOD WG list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 22 Jul 2019 21:05:54 -0000 Juergen Schoenwaelder writes: > Lada, > > the definition of inet:domain-name already has text that > Internet host names have a stricter syntax. Perhaps we should > simply state explicitely in the definition of host that the > stricter rules apply? > > I understand that you want to capture more in the definition > itself. Perhaps this makes sense and is backwards compatible > (for implementations that followed the advice in the descriptin > of inet:domain-name). Yes. In this case the constraint is easy to express it in a "pattern" statement, which is of course considerably more useful than having it only in the description. Lada > > /js > > On Fri, Mar 29, 2019 at 03:29:05PM +0100, Ladislav Lhotka wrote: >> Hi, the inet:host type should not use the inet:domain-name as >> its member because the latter type doesn't satisfy the >> requirements of RFC 952 and 1123 on host names. For example, >> the type now permits a single dot (".") as the value or the >> underscore character. I propose to change the "host" type as >> follows: OLD >> typedef host { >> type union { >> type inet:ip-address; type inet:domain-name; >> } ... >> } >> NEW >> typedef host { >> type union { >> type inet:ip-address; type inet:host-name; >> } ... >> } >> A reasonable definition of "host-name" is IMO a domain name >> whose labels are NR- LDH (non-registered letter-digit-hyphen >> label) [RFC 5890]: >> typedef host-name { >> type string { >> pattern >> '((([a-zA-Z0-9]([a-zA-Z0-9\-]){0,61})?[a-zA-Z0-9]\.)*' >> + '([a-zA-Z0-9]([a-zA-Z0-9\-]){0,61})?[a-zA-Z0-9]\.?)'; >> pattern '(.*\.)?..\-\-.*' { >> modifier invert-match; >> } length "2..253"; ... >> } >> } >> Lada -- Ladislav Lhotka Head, CZ.NIC Labs PGP Key ID: >> 0xB8F92B08A9F76C67 >> _______________________________________________ netmod mailing >> list netmod@ietf.org >> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/netmod > > -- Juergen Schoenwaelder Jacobs University Bremen > gGmbH Phone: +49 421 200 3587 Campus Ring 1 | 28759 > Bremen | Germany Fax: +49 421 200 3103 > -- Ladislav Lhotka Head, CZ.NIC Labs PGP Key ID: 0xB8F92B08A9F76C67 From nobody Mon Jul 22 15:08:02 2019 Return-Path: X-Original-To: netmod@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: netmod@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id D50381200B9 for ; 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Tue, 23 Jul 2019 00:07:56 +0200 (CEST) Received: from anna.localdomain (10.50.218.117) by sxchmb03.jacobs.jacobs-university.de (10.70.0.155) with Microsoft SMTP Server (version=TLS1_2, cipher=TLS_ECDHE_RSA_WITH_AES_256_GCM_SHA384) id 15.1.1713.5; Tue, 23 Jul 2019 00:07:56 +0200 Received: by anna.localdomain (Postfix, from userid 501) id D71012DCC2B; Tue, 23 Jul 2019 00:07:55 +0200 (CEST) Date: Tue, 23 Jul 2019 00:07:55 +0200 From: Juergen Schoenwaelder To: NETMOD WG Message-ID: <20190722220755.omgpt4jebqbosals@anna.jacobs.jacobs-university.de> Reply-To: Juergen Schoenwaelder Mail-Followup-To: NETMOD WG References: <20190721203047.oufc3bcwnjsczhmk@anna.jacobs.jacobs-university.de> <87muh53i2i.fsf@nic.cz> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <87muh53i2i.fsf@nic.cz> User-Agent: NeoMutt/20180716 X-ClientProxiedBy: SXCHMB04.jacobs.jacobs-university.de (10.70.0.156) To sxchmb03.jacobs.jacobs-university.de (10.70.0.155) Archived-At: Subject: Re: [netmod] 6991bis: domain-name X-BeenThere: netmod@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: NETMOD WG list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 22 Jul 2019 22:08:01 -0000 On Mon, Jul 22, 2019 at 04:55:33PM -0400, Ladislav Lhotka wrote: > Juergen Schoenwaelder writes: > > > Lada, > > > > I do not think we can simply enlarge the value set of inet:domain-name, > > existing implementations using inet:domain-name may (rightfully) not > > expect wildcards. > > On the other hand, the description says: > > It is designed to hold various types of domain names, including > names used for A or AAAA records (host names) and other records, ... > > So one could expect that all values that can appear e.g. in A/AAAA records > of DNS zone data are supported, which is not the case. The pattern does not allow wildcards and it did so back in RFC 6021. We can discuss whether this is wrong but allowing wildcards or other new characters I think should be done with care and considering existing implementations. > > What we can do is to create a new definition that has a larger value > > space. We can also consider to define inet:domain-name as a subset of > > such a larger type as long as it results in the same value space. > > My suggestion is to remove the above sentence from the description in the > next revision, and leave the rest to DNS folks. There are other interesting > issues, such as how to model internationalized domain names. I am not sure which problem is solved by removing the sentence. I would perhaps understand the suggestion to _add_ an explicit statement right at the top that wildcards or slashes are not supported: OLD: "The domain-name type represents a DNS domain name. The name SHOULD be fully qualified whenever possible. NEW: "The domain-name type represents a DNS domain name. The name SHOULD be fully qualified whenever possible. Domain names including wildcards or forward slashes are not supported. This would help clarify things. People that need to represent wildcards etc. then know that this type is not the right one for them. /js > Lada > > > > > /js > > > > On Fri, Mar 29, 2019 at 11:20:13AM +0100, Ladislav Lhotka wrote: > > > Hi, as a follow-up to my comment during the NETMOD session, I want > > > to propose the following update to the the inet:domain-name type. > > > The aim is to include use cases that are currently rejected: - > > > classless in-addr.arpa delegations [RFC 2317], i.e. labels like > > > "128/26" - wildcards [RFC 4592], e.g. "*.example.net" OLD > > > pattern > > > '((([a-zA-Z0-9_]([a-zA-Z0-9\-_]){0,61})?[a-zA-Z0-9]\.)*' + > > > '([a-zA-Z0-9_]([a-zA-Z0-9\-_]){0,61})?[a-zA-Z0-9]\.?)' + '|\.'; > > > NEW pattern > > > '((\*\.)?(([a-zA-Z0-9_]([a-zA-Z0-9\-/_]){0,61})?[a-zA-Z0-9]\.)*' > > > + '([a-zA-Z0-9_]([a-zA-Z0-9\-/_]){0,61})?[a-zA-Z0-9]\.?)' + > > > '|\.'; Lada -- Ladislav Lhotka Head, CZ.NIC Labs PGP Key ID: > > > 0xB8F92B08A9F76C67 _______________________________________________ > > > netmod mailing list netmod@ietf.org > > > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/netmod > > > > -- Juergen Schoenwaelder Jacobs University Bremen gGmbH > > Phone: +49 421 200 3587 Campus Ring 1 | 28759 Bremen | Germany > > Fax: +49 421 200 3103 > > -- > Ladislav Lhotka > Head, CZ.NIC Labs > PGP Key ID: 0xB8F92B08A9F76C67 -- Juergen Schoenwaelder Jacobs University Bremen gGmbH Phone: +49 421 200 3587 Campus Ring 1 | 28759 Bremen | Germany Fax: +49 421 200 3103 From nobody Mon Jul 22 15:26:41 2019 Return-Path: X-Original-To: netmod@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: netmod@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id E4CAE120094; Mon, 22 Jul 2019 15:26:38 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -4.199 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-4.199 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-2.3, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham 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key) header.d=nic.cz Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id dVVoKtUUXk2A for ; Mon, 22 Jul 2019 15:41:47 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail.nic.cz (mail.nic.cz [217.31.204.67]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 1DB2012006B for ; Mon, 22 Jul 2019 15:41:46 -0700 (PDT) Received: from birdie (unknown [IPv6:2001:67c:1232:144:1a4f:a84b:2bfd:c611]) by mail.nic.cz (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 86837140B72 for ; Tue, 23 Jul 2019 00:41:44 +0200 (CEST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/simple; d=nic.cz; s=default; t=1563835305; bh=VnQKsP/2XXBGbC0FXUmvBRSjU69nSWKYzghM0DF6mVk=; h=From:To:Date; b=b1+/DCFDhvCNv/pFobEAk9wwVm1ntzmVTppfR3GeitiF3b8ft4wond1rWh6i/uJoL B3+6NQ0Rqyhsakxsz6nDmh+uxE0f0bY09v3CJe0yJFFXs/XYNf5ALq6sH3uaEGTw8K StdRsW/FZi2p0XvnPfwI01riw+rA/fccCBX7md+A= Message-ID: From: Ladislav Lhotka To: netmod@ietf.org Date: Mon, 22 Jul 2019 18:41:42 -0400 In-Reply-To: <20190722220755.omgpt4jebqbosals@anna.jacobs.jacobs-university.de> References: <20190721203047.oufc3bcwnjsczhmk@anna.jacobs.jacobs-university.de> <87muh53i2i.fsf@nic.cz> <20190722220755.omgpt4jebqbosals@anna.jacobs.jacobs-university.de> Organization: CZ.NIC Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" User-Agent: Evolution 3.32.4 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Virus-Scanned: clamav-milter 0.100.3 at mail.nic.cz X-Virus-Status: Clean Archived-At: Subject: Re: [netmod] 6991bis: domain-name X-BeenThere: netmod@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: NETMOD WG list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 22 Jul 2019 22:41:50 -0000 On Tue, 2019-07-23 at 00:07 +0200, Juergen Schoenwaelder wrote: > On Mon, Jul 22, 2019 at 04:55:33PM -0400, Ladislav Lhotka wrote: > > Juergen Schoenwaelder writes: > > > > > Lada, > > > > > > I do not think we can simply enlarge the value set of inet:domain-name, > > > existing implementations using inet:domain-name may (rightfully) not > > > expect wildcards. > > > > On the other hand, the description says: > > > > It is designed to hold various types of domain names, including > > names used for A or AAAA records (host names) and other records, ... > > > > So one could expect that all values that can appear e.g. in A/AAAA records > > of DNS zone data are supported, which is not the case. > > The pattern does not allow wildcards and it did so back in RFC 6021. > We can discuss whether this is wrong but allowing wildcards or other > new characters I think should be done with care and considering > existing implementations. > > > > What we can do is to create a new definition that has a larger value > > > space. We can also consider to define inet:domain-name as a subset of > > > such a larger type as long as it results in the same value space. > > > > My suggestion is to remove the above sentence from the description in the > > next revision, and leave the rest to DNS folks. There are other interesting > > issues, such as how to model internationalized domain names. > > I am not sure which problem is solved by removing the sentence. There are many places where domain names are used. The description mentions A/AAAA/SRV resource records even those the type is actually not well suited for this use case. > > I would perhaps understand the suggestion to _add_ an explicit > statement right at the top that wildcards or slashes are not > supported: > > OLD: > > "The domain-name type represents a DNS domain name. The > name SHOULD be fully qualified whenever possible. > > NEW: > > "The domain-name type represents a DNS domain name. The > name SHOULD be fully qualified whenever possible. Domain > names including wildcards or forward slashes are not > supported. But these two unsupported cases only make sense in the context of DNS zone data. I would suggest instead NEW: "The domain-name type represents a DNS domain name. The name SHOULD be fully qualified whenever possible. This type is not intended for modeling DNS zone data, as it does not support wildcards [RFC 4592] and classless in-addr.arpa delegations [RFC 2317]." Lada > > This would help clarify things. People that need to represent > wildcards etc. then know that this type is not the right one for > them. > > /js > > > Lada > > > > > /js > > > > > > On Fri, Mar 29, 2019 at 11:20:13AM +0100, Ladislav Lhotka wrote: > > > > Hi, as a follow-up to my comment during the NETMOD session, I want > > > > to propose the following update to the the inet:domain-name type. > > > > The aim is to include use cases that are currently rejected: - > > > > classless in-addr.arpa delegations [RFC 2317], i.e. labels like > > > > "128/26" - wildcards [RFC 4592], e.g. "*.example.net" OLD > > > > pattern > > > > '((([a-zA-Z0-9_]([a-zA-Z0-9\-_]){0,61})?[a-zA-Z0-9]\.)*' + > > > > '([a-zA-Z0-9_]([a-zA-Z0-9\-_]){0,61})?[a-zA-Z0-9]\.?)' + '|\.'; > > > > NEW pattern > > > > '((\*\.)?(([a-zA-Z0-9_]([a-zA-Z0-9\-/_]){0,61})?[a-zA-Z0-9]\.)*' > > > > + '([a-zA-Z0-9_]([a-zA-Z0-9\-/_]){0,61})?[a-zA-Z0-9]\.?)' + > > > > '|\.'; Lada -- Ladislav Lhotka Head, CZ.NIC Labs PGP Key ID: > > > > 0xB8F92B08A9F76C67 _______________________________________________ > > > > netmod mailing list netmod@ietf.org > > > > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/netmod > > > > > > -- Juergen Schoenwaelder Jacobs University Bremen gGmbH > > > Phone: +49 421 200 3587 Campus Ring 1 | 28759 Bremen | Germany > > > Fax: +49 421 200 3103 > > > > -- > > Ladislav Lhotka > > Head, CZ.NIC Labs > > PGP Key ID: 0xB8F92B08A9F76C67 -- Ladislav Lhotka Head, CZ.NIC Labs PGP Key ID: 0xB8F92B08A9F76C67 From nobody Tue Jul 23 07:11:51 2019 Return-Path: X-Original-To: netmod@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: netmod@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5816E120345 for ; Tue, 23 Jul 2019 07:11:43 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.001 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.001 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIMWL_WL_HIGH=-0.001, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (1024-bit key) header.d=ericsson.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id rRo3GIJBUmzZ for ; Tue, 23 Jul 2019 07:11:39 -0700 (PDT) Received: from EUR02-VE1-obe.outbound.protection.outlook.com (mail-eopbgr20087.outbound.protection.outlook.com [40.107.2.87]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 505591202FB for ; Tue, 23 Jul 2019 07:11:26 -0700 (PDT) ARC-Seal: i=1; a=rsa-sha256; s=arcselector9901; d=microsoft.com; cv=none; b=EoefRRiKNrccXVkvNmyFBF6Pgi+SgBw+GrbZp6cUNyW/j0pB0NENk0CA76AyykSF/dtYMIs5il9wRm0VKc80KdL+MkGAEYoW3oXGZJmhlzjIbkZpKeLRCuwCPf2bkHSRpsHEcndKrgBZPbE7P2L4LvXl4o5JTls6xfY359+Y082v7StfasNJrkeqjczmvofy0uf4ySlxSTccYc+xKfDdSbSCdfRGQw3uLZ3LbLJ+Hr78i5M4goHDrCbO47hve+e/MOfMr04ovP/rN4wjRwFMGla2R1UMIt0dIx9pYLlWOw0loQAKlM9dQR7vYw1sES06oGfA11WYZFiYYcoK8MvUdQ== ARC-Message-Signature: i=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=microsoft.com; s=arcselector9901; h=From:Date:Subject:Message-ID:Content-Type:MIME-Version:X-MS-Exchange-SenderADCheck; bh=Ms+68L7XG/3z8Eqet8EF5MIVkMNP9JtIW9oIzdOQ10k=; b=RZe/zvfR8jB8vcyDbafdUwCnSwhFUqI+EvLGs6Xs7if2Hwx7T/hMKt7u74DPuFI3QK34ZB+WFOoNIyMEinXKTsnNGp3v3tVmbH91EDxHbb5XPlkVsTKrhbW4f0t7CW0YSSxAUFIWz8sZqsaC5YB5MNkeNyU2Rq/vZzPBAEtp264l12zxygYeyLmKsKm9omSeLpiEEkUsEOv40MzB7o21jWxhfZWmwR/MIZN6P/5392bGk/NLY84GLw4EnNGM8Q4CzEZzbEXV0ol+18xFzszjeBocXFGymZ4AgOSUmoO1pkSENvgrOSL8dSMaRfUNMSv1tRjcvTiDOFNdcFXQQj0NkQ== ARC-Authentication-Results: i=1; mx.microsoft.com 1;spf=pass smtp.mailfrom=ericsson.com;dmarc=pass action=none header.from=ericsson.com;dkim=pass header.d=ericsson.com;arc=none DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=ericsson.com; s=selector2; h=From:Date:Subject:Message-ID:Content-Type:MIME-Version:X-MS-Exchange-SenderADCheck; bh=Ms+68L7XG/3z8Eqet8EF5MIVkMNP9JtIW9oIzdOQ10k=; b=q43w5MrcKqJilVxxyAW9UjLsBsYebLUyEas8aHbwlJV1TBSchKLnRIAq3OOxS9V4vLNkD/IjY+SnZkSTTbvwa/aw+OlG6Z6fMHlAXnwuxbQxNqlo1qD1acPAgtLntkBQANH5gu7GXcy0ACIY4WjmWT4l2UnrIPXmaV6eUbVEQpA= Received: from VI1PR0701MB2286.eurprd07.prod.outlook.com (10.169.137.153) by VI1PR0701MB3021.eurprd07.prod.outlook.com (10.173.75.8) with Microsoft SMTP Server (version=TLS1_2, cipher=TLS_ECDHE_RSA_WITH_AES_256_GCM_SHA384) id 15.20.2115.10; Tue, 23 Jul 2019 14:11:23 +0000 Received: from VI1PR0701MB2286.eurprd07.prod.outlook.com ([fe80::5556:4c20:cd8d:686a]) by VI1PR0701MB2286.eurprd07.prod.outlook.com ([fe80::5556:4c20:cd8d:686a%11]) with mapi id 15.20.2115.005; Tue, 23 Jul 2019 14:11:23 +0000 From: =?iso-8859-2?Q?Bal=E1zs_Lengyel?= To: Juergen Schoenwaelder CC: "netmod@ietf.org" Thread-Topic: [netmod] Instance-data-format - shall we define etag and last-modified annotation ? Thread-Index: AdVAwv3YCGqZ1KMoT7S8jMt8r0MeZgAByuUAACWODXA= Date: Tue, 23 Jul 2019 14:11:23 +0000 Message-ID: References: <20190722201510.mom7xg2mdi2ulbby@anna.jacobs.jacobs-university.de> In-Reply-To: <20190722201510.mom7xg2mdi2ulbby@anna.jacobs.jacobs-university.de> Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: yes X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: authentication-results: spf=none (sender IP is ) smtp.mailfrom=balazs.lengyel@ericsson.com; x-originating-ip: [2001:67c:1232:144:71b0:6ac0:4967:8ca5] x-ms-publictraffictype: Email x-ms-office365-filtering-correlation-id: bc657812-f4ba-4429-aebd-08d70f77a4d4 x-microsoft-antispam: BCL:0; PCL:0; RULEID:(2390118)(7020095)(4652040)(8989299)(4534185)(4627221)(201703031133081)(201702281549075)(8990200)(5600148)(711020)(4605104)(1401327)(2017052603328)(49563074)(7193020); SRVR:VI1PR0701MB3021; x-ms-traffictypediagnostic: VI1PR0701MB3021: x-microsoft-antispam-prvs: x-ms-oob-tlc-oobclassifiers: OLM:10000; x-forefront-prvs: 0107098B6C x-forefront-antispam-report: SFV:NSPM; SFS:(10009020)(4636009)(346002)(39860400002)(136003)(376002)(366004)(396003)(13464003)(199004)(189003)(52536014)(4326008)(33656002)(446003)(11346002)(229853002)(476003)(6916009)(14444005)(186003)(478600001)(71200400001)(71190400001)(256004)(7696005)(305945005)(7736002)(46003)(14454004)(6116002)(316002)(76176011)(6506007)(53546011)(102836004)(74316002)(76116006)(9686003)(66946007)(66574012)(486006)(6246003)(45776006)(6306002)(99936001)(55016002)(2906002)(68736007)(6436002)(81156014)(86362001)(25786009)(81166006)(66446008)(53936002)(99286004)(8936002)(66556008)(5660300002)(66616009)(8676002)(66476007)(64756008); DIR:OUT; SFP:1101; SCL:1; SRVR:VI1PR0701MB3021; H:VI1PR0701MB2286.eurprd07.prod.outlook.com; FPR:; SPF:None; LANG:en; PTR:InfoNoRecords; A:1; MX:1; received-spf: None (protection.outlook.com: ericsson.com does not designate permitted sender hosts) x-ms-exchange-senderadcheck: 1 x-microsoft-antispam-message-info: OtIgk8Px7PHI5xS32NWA85SBP2u4hwr1Bi4sQ6UP8nLzEPheSnyn8j6obk144tfgNKAhg7n6FOh/munrRVUSPDDW+g/uPEm6Tf5T4HkUV2Wix9h9mlBxWaHY9sDy1ghzZ9eUYLKOCOZdvUIIqc9BElTcUVST7/z+0WsUTmVyaJobw07onn57Skf3rMKM00TeiS9I1tboucoorbRJD9ThQsl4FozJuZbWSx8MgZWOFO71d4WliRbBWDOeRmt121DQEPh2qJiz68425v52mY0dFB6KYSGGu6R68rB6dvC6PXXp1fsIe+dpLOtBjFGs0Wm7iuURX5dXu3UB6dtBjufyburKUkGQoJFovtfd5MHwuKGALT7nD+WT/xamztshXRIGR5bKcoy/1kxPnzD6b/xyV7lqc5UPWY+Yj7BUkh7qDdI= Content-Type: multipart/signed; protocol="application/x-pkcs7-signature"; micalg=SHA1; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_02B2_01D5413E.F9A14050" MIME-Version: 1.0 X-OriginatorOrg: ericsson.com X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-Network-Message-Id: bc657812-f4ba-4429-aebd-08d70f77a4d4 X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-originalarrivaltime: 23 Jul 2019 14:11:23.3202 (UTC) X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-fromentityheader: Hosted X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-id: 92e84ceb-fbfd-47ab-be52-080c6b87953f X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-mailboxtype: HOSTED X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-userprincipalname: balazs.lengyel@ericsson.com X-MS-Exchange-Transport-CrossTenantHeadersStamped: VI1PR0701MB3021 Archived-At: Subject: Re: [netmod] Instance-data-format - shall we define etag and last-modified annotation ? X-BeenThere: netmod@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: NETMOD WG list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 23 Jul 2019 14:11:49 -0000 ------=_NextPart_000_02B2_01D5413E.F9A14050 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-2" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hello J=FCrgen, Could the etag and last-modified annotations be moved to 6991bis? Regards Balazs -----Original Message----- From: Juergen Schoenwaelder =20 Sent: 2019. j=FAlius 22., h=E9tf=F5 16:15 To: Bal=E1zs Lengyel Cc: netmod@ietf.org Subject: Re: [netmod] Instance-data-format - shall we define etag and last-modified annotation ? On Mon, Jul 22, 2019 at 07:23:59PM +0000, Bal=E1zs Lengyel wrote: > Hello, >=20 > Restconf (rfc8040) defined to useful bits of metadata about a YANG=20 > defined > datastore: entity-tag and the last-modified timestamp. >=20 > These can be very useful in instance data sets, however Restconf=20 > defines an encoding for these (as part of the http headers) that can=20 > not be used in instance-data-sets. This may actually point out a flaw or omission of RFC 8527. RFC 8040 = defines an entity-tag for its "unified" datastore and it says "if the RESTCONF server is co-located with a NETCONF server, then this entity-tag MUST be = for the "running" datastore". So it is a bit unclear what happens with other NMDA datastores and I did not quickly find something in RFC 8527. (For example, can have a distinct etag for ? =20 > draft-ietf-netmod-yang-instance-file-format-03#section-7.2 > section-7.2> defines metadata annotations for these two, that can = be > used in instance data >=20 > md:annotation entity-tag { > type string; > description "Used to encode the entity-tag ."; > } > md:annotation last-modified { > type yang:date-and-time; > description "Contains the date and time when the annotated > instance was last modified (or created)."; > } >=20 > In order to be able to include this data, the annotations need to be=20 > defined in some YANG module. >=20 > The question has been raised whether >=20 > 1. these annotations should be defined in the ietf-yang-instance-data > module as it needs them, as that is open or > 2. the annotations should be defined in another draft in a separate > YANG module as any other annotation >=20 > The first option is better because the instance-data needs these=20 > annotations, and at this point we see no other user for the=20 > annotation, and in this case the ongoing instance data draft will=20 > define it >=20 > The second option is better because, if later there are other users=20 > for these annotations, it might be strange to reference the=20 > ietf-yang-instance-data module. Also why provide special treatment to=20 > these > 2 annotations? >=20 > The authors support option 1 and don't have the time to start a new=20 > draft to define these annotations. >=20 > On IETF105 in the room there was more support for option 1.=20 >=20 > Please indicate if you have an opinion about the choice of 1 or 2 Version -03 only defines these annotations but does not do anything = specific with these definitions. So if the annotations are defined elsewhere, the = ID is as complete as before. If entity-tag and last-modified are actually = seen as datastore properties, it would be nice to have them defined in the = NMDA documents (and it seems we overlooked this when we did the NMDA work). I think this needs a bit of discussion whether these are actually seen = as datastore properties. But in this case, I would lean towards option 2. /js --=20 Juergen Schoenwaelder Jacobs University Bremen gGmbH Phone: +49 421 200 3587 Campus Ring 1 | 28759 Bremen | Germany Fax: +49 421 200 3103 ------=_NextPart_000_02B2_01D5413E.F9A14050 Content-Type: application/pkcs7-signature; name="smime.p7s" Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 Content-Disposition: attachment; filename="smime.p7s" MIAGCSqGSIb3DQEHAqCAMIACAQExCzAJBgUrDgMCGgUAMIAGCSqGSIb3DQEHAQAAoIIVbjCCAyAw ggIIoAMCAQICAR0wDQYJKoZIhvcNAQEFBQAwOTELMAkGA1UEBhMCRkkxDzANBgNVBAoTBlNvbmVy YTEZMBcGA1UEAxMQU29uZXJhIENsYXNzMiBDQTAeFw0wMTA0MDYwNzI5NDBaFw0yMTA0MDYwNzI5 NDBaMDkxCzAJBgNVBAYTAkZJMQ8wDQYDVQQKEwZTb25lcmExGTAXBgNVBAMTEFNvbmVyYSBDbGFz czIgQ0EwggEiMA0GCSqGSIb3DQEBAQUAA4IBDwAwggEKAoIBAQCQF0o1ncrwDZbHRPoWN/xIvb1/ gC01O+FvqGepvwMcTYxvMkfVQWikEwTBNQyahEP8XB3/ibPoFxjNkV/7iePqv05dfBsm03V57eaE 41flrSnE9Doo56V7hDZps/1edr2jLZnTkE4jKH0YY/FUOyaddluXQrL/rvBO7N05lU6DBn/nSUDI 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------=_NextPart_000_02B2_01D5413E.F9A14050-- From nobody Tue Jul 23 07:24:44 2019 Return-Path: X-Original-To: netmod@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: netmod@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id EE63F120290 for ; Tue, 23 Jul 2019 07:24:38 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.897 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.897 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_NONE=0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id FkMReOzlVhho for ; Tue, 23 Jul 2019 07:24:32 -0700 (PDT) Received: from atlas5.jacobs-university.de (atlas5.jacobs-university.de [212.201.44.20]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ADH-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com 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501) id C1FA73451D8; Tue, 23 Jul 2019 16:24:14 +0200 (CEST) Date: Tue, 23 Jul 2019 16:24:14 +0200 From: Juergen Schoenwaelder To: =?utf-8?Q?Bal=C3=A1zs?= Lengyel CC: "netmod@ietf.org" Message-ID: <20190723142414.4sc5o2j6dawblwrm@anna.jacobs.jacobs-university.de> Reply-To: Juergen Schoenwaelder Mail-Followup-To: =?utf-8?Q?Bal=C3=A1zs?= Lengyel , "netmod@ietf.org" References: <20190722201510.mom7xg2mdi2ulbby@anna.jacobs.jacobs-university.de> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: User-Agent: NeoMutt/20180716 X-ClientProxiedBy: SXCHMB01.jacobs.jacobs-university.de (10.70.0.120) To sxchmb03.jacobs.jacobs-university.de (10.70.0.155) X-Clacks-Overhead: GNU Terry Pratchett Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Archived-At: Subject: Re: [netmod] Instance-data-format - shall we define etag and last-modified annotation ? X-BeenThere: netmod@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: NETMOD WG list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 23 Jul 2019 14:24:39 -0000 Bal=C3=A1zs, I am not sure these belongs to the data types collection. If these annotations are a per datastore properties or per configuration datastore properties (I am not sure these properties make a lot of sense for dynamically changing data in , or these properties only make sense for config true nodes, more discussion needed I guess), then the logical place would be to define them would be where the datastores are defined. I understand the timing concern but my preference is to workout what these annotations really are in an NMDA world and in a second step to figure out a way to define them in a reasonable amount of time. /js On Tue, Jul 23, 2019 at 02:11:23PM +0000, Bal=C3=A1zs Lengyel wrote: > Hello J=C3=BCrgen, > Could the etag and last-modified annotations be moved to 6991bis? > Regards Balazs >=20 > -----Original Message----- > From: Juergen Schoenwaelder =20 > Sent: 2019. j=C3=BAlius 22., h=C3=A9tf=C5=91 16:15 > To: Bal=C3=A1zs Lengyel > Cc: netmod@ietf.org > Subject: Re: [netmod] Instance-data-format - shall we define etag and > last-modified annotation ? >=20 > On Mon, Jul 22, 2019 at 07:23:59PM +0000, Bal=C3=A1zs Lengyel wrote: > > Hello, > >=20 > > Restconf (rfc8040) defined to useful bits of metadata about a YANG=20 > > defined > > datastore: entity-tag and the last-modified timestamp. > >=20 > > These can be very useful in instance data sets, however Restconf=20 > > defines an encoding for these (as part of the http headers) that can=20 > > not be used in instance-data-sets. >=20 > This may actually point out a flaw or omission of RFC 8527. RFC 8040 de= fines > an entity-tag for its "unified" datastore and it says "if the RESTCONF > server is co-located with a NETCONF server, then this entity-tag MUST b= e for > the "running" datastore". So it is a bit unclear what happens with othe= r > NMDA datastores and I did not quickly find something in RFC 8527. (For > example, can have a distinct etag for ? > =20 > > draft-ietf-netmod-yang-instance-file-format-03#section-7.2 > > > > section-7.2> defines metadata annotations for these two, that can= be > > used in instance data > >=20 > > md:annotation entity-tag { > > type string; > > description "Used to encode the entity-tag ."; > > } > > md:annotation last-modified { > > type yang:date-and-time; > > description "Contains the date and time when the annotated > > instance was last modified (or created)."; > > } > >=20 > > In order to be able to include this data, the annotations need to be=20 > > defined in some YANG module. > >=20 > > The question has been raised whether > >=20 > > 1. these annotations should be defined in the ietf-yang-instance-data > > module as it needs them, as that is open or > > 2. the annotations should be defined in another draft in a separate > > YANG module as any other annotation > >=20 > > The first option is better because the instance-data needs these=20 > > annotations, and at this point we see no other user for the=20 > > annotation, and in this case the ongoing instance data draft will=20 > > define it > >=20 > > The second option is better because, if later there are other users=20 > > for these annotations, it might be strange to reference the=20 > > ietf-yang-instance-data module. Also why provide special treatment to= =20 > > these > > 2 annotations? > >=20 > > The authors support option 1 and don't have the time to start a new=20 > > draft to define these annotations. > >=20 > > On IETF105 in the room there was more support for option 1.=20 > >=20 > > Please indicate if you have an opinion about the choice of 1 or 2 >=20 > Version -03 only defines these annotations but does not do anything spe= cific > with these definitions. So if the annotations are defined elsewhere, th= e ID > is as complete as before. If entity-tag and last-modified are actually = seen > as datastore properties, it would be nice to have them defined in the N= MDA > documents (and it seems we overlooked this when we did the NMDA work). >=20 > I think this needs a bit of discussion whether these are actually seen = as > datastore properties. But in this case, I would lean towards option 2. >=20 > /js >=20 > --=20 > Juergen Schoenwaelder Jacobs University Bremen gGmbH > Phone: +49 421 200 3587 Campus Ring 1 | 28759 Bremen | Germany > Fax: +49 421 200 3103 --=20 Juergen Schoenwaelder Jacobs University Bremen gGmbH Phone: +49 421 200 3587 Campus Ring 1 | 28759 Bremen | Germany Fax: +49 421 200 3103 From nobody Tue Jul 23 08:39:25 2019 Return-Path: X-Original-To: netmod@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: netmod@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5F882120398 for ; Tue, 23 Jul 2019 08:39:11 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.898 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.898 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=yumaworks-com.20150623.gappssmtp.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id k3JP1HHjwAkI for ; Tue, 23 Jul 2019 08:39:08 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail-lj1-x22f.google.com (mail-lj1-x22f.google.com [IPv6:2a00:1450:4864:20::22f]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id A9E7F120428 for ; Tue, 23 Jul 2019 08:39:07 -0700 (PDT) Received: by mail-lj1-x22f.google.com with SMTP id m8so7907752lji.7 for ; Tue, 23 Jul 2019 08:39:07 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=yumaworks-com.20150623.gappssmtp.com; s=20150623; h=mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date:message-id:subject:to; bh=vkKvwRCZYm3kNAvNIi+NfjkDOvo5KrkLpOes5Y5xi/k=; b=bgqg2Nk7wXiYi3itKxXxVqkDPADnr67ggiz7QoPWzOacw3ERsfCVOq3h3sHMWbxX1d W6bEVkb4NZ/LpZ68KyW/y2p2cY9WJtDXbYtWCvsZdeP8AcicEZn5NhNT7PD6IDhH6PRK CRsIt18Q48yGLOq+shRiIATCwJqSDjwqlcI/ho5jXqIDmvALnuKr2fu5F2QL2vYrxFhO MIuffxoSIHU2hz661rvKQIrlQq4dqHOZ/qaP//hAcw0xvc2vivrq4aA5ZqtWYZDzjwFF Rckj6/fsi4HRG5Hyp6oL0of/8fe0w2FoO1o9evgKMd40P8mzhM14pLcc+P/2N6NuKcrf SuCA== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date :message-id:subject:to; bh=vkKvwRCZYm3kNAvNIi+NfjkDOvo5KrkLpOes5Y5xi/k=; b=t0oTIOvzqIyhHu+qH8MveKkzUsrbekbMHsrLM77zjtl5+ZiHR9isVlRrXoNCheuwPe VbKBjKBszZpq0fta58HoyklFAfCYOAPdUx5fxtUUVQ25mzT+VpC+r4xHHwBGrPFz3fB4 jXK4cqnJ8MIa/zrdLvZdwsfNcRNc/IGfg3zafhXVi3PRJdaYLu2EJjtx1Rc6i1QmiT2T F2ZhnO5hhfEqOSF3BqEIKxbixXmbNlo8+nt8U3xyLUSp136hF2VJsErYEc/tUNhJbgBC ZwXlfCvU699VV3rdsgQnsoTxulQm0hlbIqEBZNLuvAlCX22jQmNbNLEjE4i/FsHkD5Ve v+1w== X-Gm-Message-State: APjAAAV0lh+OCUmff1Ip2SBiAw2vjnPqebxnNSPnpz2ALZAEbSHBTsFq 90+SBr4mfBktWFNGAHC8J89M8MMhh//HCQ4R1VY0gQ== X-Google-Smtp-Source: APXvYqycHa5qMcfv+BWJBvOIJfGUCBjUG5cEadcnRefOnwC6s7SlfrKOhSHieVwg7Xo9kMN1iEDM3tyCDAiF/KlOI44= X-Received: by 2002:a05:651c:1b9:: with SMTP id c25mr11318854ljn.25.1563896345770; Tue, 23 Jul 2019 08:39:05 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 References: <20190722201510.mom7xg2mdi2ulbby@anna.jacobs.jacobs-university.de> <20190723142414.4sc5o2j6dawblwrm@anna.jacobs.jacobs-university.de> In-Reply-To: <20190723142414.4sc5o2j6dawblwrm@anna.jacobs.jacobs-university.de> From: Andy Bierman Date: Tue, 23 Jul 2019 08:38:54 -0700 Message-ID: To: Juergen Schoenwaelder , =?UTF-8?Q?Bal=C3=A1zs_Lengyel?= , "netmod@ietf.org" Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="00000000000027d0ec058e5afe50" Archived-At: Subject: Re: [netmod] Instance-data-format - shall we define etag and last-modified annotation ? X-BeenThere: netmod@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: NETMOD WG list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 23 Jul 2019 15:39:22 -0000 --00000000000027d0ec058e5afe50 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable On Tue, Jul 23, 2019 at 7:24 AM Juergen Schoenwaelder < j.schoenwaelder@jacobs-university.de> wrote: > Bal=C3=A1zs, > > I am not sure these belongs to the data types collection. If these > annotations are a per datastore properties or per configuration > datastore properties (I am not sure these properties make a lot of > sense for dynamically changing data in , or these > properties only make sense for config true nodes, more discussion > needed I guess), then the logical place would be to define them would > be where the datastores are defined. > > I understand the timing concern but my preference is to workout what > these annotations really are in an NMDA world and in a second step to > figure out a way to define them in a reasonable amount of time. > > This work needs a lot more thought because this WG is sort of abusing these fields, intended for HTTP caching. The values are associated with a representation of a response to a request for some portion of the datastore contents. E.g., a representation in XML must be a different ETag than a JSON representation (of the exact same datastore contents). I suggest new meta-data be defined that has semantics specific to datastore contents, not the HTTP representation of the response. IMO this meta-data is not really needed inside an instance file, but if included, then the values should be associated with the representation (the instance file) and not the datastores. /js > Andy > > On Tue, Jul 23, 2019 at 02:11:23PM +0000, Bal=C3=A1zs Lengyel wrote: > > Hello J=C3=BCrgen, > > Could the etag and last-modified annotations be moved to 6991bis? > > Regards Balazs > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: Juergen Schoenwaelder > > Sent: 2019. j=C3=BAlius 22., h=C3=A9tf=C5=91 16:15 > > To: Bal=C3=A1zs Lengyel > > Cc: netmod@ietf.org > > Subject: Re: [netmod] Instance-data-format - shall we define etag and > > last-modified annotation ? > > > > On Mon, Jul 22, 2019 at 07:23:59PM +0000, Bal=C3=A1zs Lengyel wrote: > > > Hello, > > > > > > Restconf (rfc8040) defined to useful bits of metadata about a YANG > > > defined > > > datastore: entity-tag and the last-modified timestamp. > > > > > > These can be very useful in instance data sets, however Restconf > > > defines an encoding for these (as part of the http headers) that can > > > not be used in instance-data-sets. > > > > This may actually point out a flaw or omission of RFC 8527. RFC 8040 > defines > > an entity-tag for its "unified" datastore and it says "if the RESTCONF > > server is co-located with a NETCONF server, then this entity-tag MUST b= e > for > > the "running" datastore". So it is a bit unclear what happens with othe= r > > NMDA datastores and I did not quickly find something in RFC 8527. (For > > example, can have a distinct etag for ? > > > > > draft-ietf-netmod-yang-instance-file-format-03#section-7.2 > > > > > < > https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-netmod-yang-instance-file-format-0= 3# > > > section-7.2> defines metadata annotations for these two, that can > be > > > used in instance data > > > > > > md:annotation entity-tag { > > > type string; > > > description "Used to encode the entity-tag ."; > > > } > > > md:annotation last-modified { > > > type yang:date-and-time; > > > description "Contains the date and time when the annotated > > > instance was last modified (or created)."; > > > } > > > > > > In order to be able to include this data, the annotations need to be > > > defined in some YANG module. > > > > > > The question has been raised whether > > > > > > 1. these annotations should be defined in the ietf-yang-instance-dat= a > > > module as it needs them, as that is open or > > > 2. the annotations should be defined in another draft in a separate > > > YANG module as any other annotation > > > > > > The first option is better because the instance-data needs these > > > annotations, and at this point we see no other user for the > > > annotation, and in this case the ongoing instance data draft will > > > define it > > > > > > The second option is better because, if later there are other users > > > for these annotations, it might be strange to reference the > > > ietf-yang-instance-data module. Also why provide special treatment to > > > these > > > 2 annotations? > > > > > > The authors support option 1 and don't have the time to start a new > > > draft to define these annotations. > > > > > > On IETF105 in the room there was more support for option 1. > > > > > > Please indicate if you have an opinion about the choice of 1 or 2 > > > > Version -03 only defines these annotations but does not do anything > specific > > with these definitions. So if the annotations are defined elsewhere, th= e > ID > > is as complete as before. If entity-tag and last-modified are actually > seen > > as datastore properties, it would be nice to have them defined in the > NMDA > > documents (and it seems we overlooked this when we did the NMDA work). > > > > I think this needs a bit of discussion whether these are actually seen = as > > datastore properties. But in this case, I would lean towards option 2. > > > > /js > > > > -- > > Juergen Schoenwaelder Jacobs University Bremen gGmbH > > Phone: +49 421 200 3587 Campus Ring 1 | 28759 Bremen | Germany > > Fax: +49 421 200 3103 > > > > -- > Juergen Schoenwaelder Jacobs University Bremen gGmbH > Phone: +49 421 200 3587 Campus Ring 1 | 28759 Bremen | Germany > Fax: +49 421 200 3103 > > _______________________________________________ > netmod mailing list > netmod@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/netmod > --00000000000027d0ec058e5afe50 Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable


=
On Tue, Jul 23, 2019 at 7:24 AM Juerg= en Schoenwaelder <j.schoenwaelder@jacobs-university.de> wrote:
Bal=C3=A1zs,

I am not sure these belongs to the data types collection. If these
annotations are a per datastore properties or per configuration
datastore properties (I am not sure these properties make a lot of
sense for dynamically changing data in <operational>, or these
properties only make sense for config true nodes, more discussion
needed I guess), then the logical place would be to define them would
be where the datastores are defined.

I understand the timing concern but my preference is to workout what
these annotations really are in an NMDA world and in a second step to
figure out a way to define them in a reasonable amount of time.


This work needs a lot more thought bec= ause this WG is sort of abusing these fields,
intended for HTTP c= aching. The values are associated with a representation of a response
=
to a request for some portion of the datastore contents.=C2=A0 E.g., a= representation in XML must be a different
ETag than a JSON repre= sentation (of the exact same datastore contents).

= I suggest new meta-data be defined that has semantics specific to datastore= contents, not
the HTTP representation of the response.

IMO this meta-data is not really needed inside an instance = file, but if included, then the values
should be associated with = the representation (the instance file) and not the datastores.

/js


Andy
=C2= =A0

On Tue, Jul 23, 2019 at 02:11:23PM +0000, Bal=C3=A1zs Lengyel wrote:
> Hello J=C3=BCrgen,
> Could the etag and last-modified annotations be moved to 6991bis?
> Regards Balazs
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Juergen Schoenwaelder <j.schoenwaelder@jacobs-university.de>
> Sent: 2019. j=C3=BAlius 22., h=C3=A9tf=C5=91 16:15
> To: Bal=C3=A1zs Lengyel <balazs.lengyel@ericsson.com>
> Cc: netmod@ietf.o= rg
> Subject: Re: [netmod] Instance-data-format - shall we define etag and<= br> > last-modified annotation ?
>
> On Mon, Jul 22, 2019 at 07:23:59PM +0000, Bal=C3=A1zs Lengyel wrote: > > Hello,
> >
> > Restconf (rfc8040) defined to useful bits of metadata about a YAN= G
> > defined
> > datastore: entity-tag and the last-modified timestamp.
> >
> > These can be very useful in instance data sets, however Restconf =
> > defines an encoding for these (as part of the http headers) that = can
> > not be used in instance-data-sets.
>
> This may actually point out a flaw or omission of RFC 8527. RFC 8040 d= efines
> an entity-tag for its "unified" datastore and it says "= if the RESTCONF
> server is co-located with a NETCONF server, then this entity-tag MUST = be for
> the "running" datastore". So it is a bit unclear what h= appens with other
> NMDA datastores and I did not quickly find something in RFC 8527. (For=
> example, can have a distinct etag for <startup/>?
>=C2=A0
> > draft-ietf-netmod-yang-instance-file-format-03#section-7.2
> >
> <https://tools.ie= tf.org/html/draft-ietf-netmod-yang-instance-file-format-03#
> > section-7.2>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0defines metadata annotations f= or these two, that can be
> > used in instance data
> >
> >=C2=A0 =C2=A0md:annotation entity-tag {
> >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0type string;
> >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0description "Used to encode the en= tity-tag .";
> >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0}
> >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0md:annotation last-modified {
> >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0type yang:date-and-time;
> >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0description "Contains the date and= time when the annotated
> >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0instance was last modified (or c= reated).";
> >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0}
> >
> > In order to be able to include this data, the annotations need to= be
> > defined in some YANG module.
> >
> > The question has been raised whether
> >
> > 1.=C2=A0 these annotations should be defined in the ietf-yang-ins= tance-data
> > module as it needs them, as that is open or
> > 2.=C2=A0 the annotations should be defined in another draft in a = separate
> > YANG module as any other annotation
> >
> > The first option is better because the instance-data needs these =
> > annotations, and at this point we see no other user for the
> > annotation, and in this case the ongoing instance data draft will=
> > define it
> >
> > The second option is better because, if later there are other use= rs
> > for these annotations, it might be strange to reference the
> > ietf-yang-instance-data module. Also why provide special treatmen= t to
> > these
> > 2 annotations?
> >
> > The authors support option 1 and don't have the time to start= a new
> > draft to define these annotations.
> >
> > On IETF105 in the room there was more support for option 1.
> >
> > Please indicate if you have an opinion about the choice of 1 or 2=
>
> Version -03 only defines these annotations but does not do anything sp= ecific
> with these definitions. So if the annotations are defined elsewhere, t= he ID
> is as complete as before. If entity-tag and last-modified are actually= seen
> as datastore properties, it would be nice to have them defined in the = NMDA
> documents (and it seems we overlooked this when we did the NMDA work).=
>
> I think this needs a bit of discussion whether these are actually seen= as
> datastore properties. But in this case, I would lean towards option 2.=
>
> /js
>
> --
> Juergen Schoenwaelder=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0Jacobs U= niversity Bremen gGmbH
> Phone: +49 421 200 3587=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0Campus Ring 1= | 28759 Bremen | Germany
> Fax:=C2=A0 =C2=A0+49 421 200 3103=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0<= ;https://www.jacobs-university.de/>



--
Juergen Schoenwaelder=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0Jacobs Univer= sity Bremen gGmbH
Phone: +49 421 200 3587=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0Campus Ring 1 | 28= 759 Bremen | Germany
Fax:=C2=A0 =C2=A0+49 421 200 3103=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0<https://www.jacobs-university.de/>

_______________________________________________
netmod mailing list
netmod@ietf.org https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/netmod
--00000000000027d0ec058e5afe50-- From nobody Tue Jul 23 09:03:36 2019 Return-Path: X-Original-To: netmod@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: netmod@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id D6BA91203A5 for ; Tue, 23 Jul 2019 09:03:24 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -6.998 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-6.998 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_HI=-5, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_NONE=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (1024-bit key) header.d=nic.cz Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id Tnk47CoVajdx for ; Tue, 23 Jul 2019 09:03:22 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail.nic.cz (mail.nic.cz [217.31.204.67]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id BA04812039B for ; Tue, 23 Jul 2019 09:03:22 -0700 (PDT) Received: from birdie (unknown [IPv6:2001:67c:370:128:c2e5:fc72:9ee5:1635]) by mail.nic.cz (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id DC50F140943 for ; Tue, 23 Jul 2019 18:03:19 +0200 (CEST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/simple; d=nic.cz; s=default; t=1563897800; bh=Wn3Y63aHVijh3YbkVKNVYCJz8bw484KsQbM6SD1r4Jo=; h=From:To:Date; b=qRE2+JRYpwGtaxqC3XjmaSTQc7AfYAAqLhdVNXZd8m8EyIzI/EFYMGGNEp5MSrnJf gEALF7IC/WYkC5JPXH5RSopnDLPhV8m//jAOZcU7jXzAvhic4N2dg7uXWcnDeA3Wir K5m8UqB/nN/6CbX67i5db/RXApK+cZHMxk3BEcuo= Message-ID: From: Ladislav Lhotka To: NETMOD WG Date: Tue, 23 Jul 2019 12:03:17 -0400 Organization: CZ.NIC Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" User-Agent: Evolution 3.32.4 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Virus-Scanned: clamav-milter 0.100.3 at mail.nic.cz X-Virus-Status: Clean Archived-At: Subject: [netmod] YANG next X-BeenThere: netmod@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: NETMOD WG list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 23 Jul 2019 16:03:34 -0000 Hi, this morning I attended the side meeting "Next Step of IETF YANG". I was somewhat misled into thinking that it would be about future evolution of YANG the language, which was not the case at all. However, my personal conclusion from the meeting is that it would be a total disaster to throw in a new version of YANG within the next few years or so. The operators and equipment vendors are busy putting together YANG modules and tools, filling the gaps, coping with NMDA, schema mount, IETF versus OpenConfig etc. A new YANG version (and modules written in it) would IMO be extremely counter-productive at this rather turbulent stage. So, if we want to continue the yang-next discussion, I think we first have to figure out how to evolve YANG without making waves in the current YANG pond and let the operators and vendors do their work, without which YANG can never succeed. Lada -- Ladislav Lhotka Head, CZ.NIC Labs PGP Key ID: 0xB8F92B08A9F76C67 From nobody Tue Jul 23 09:10:13 2019 Return-Path: X-Original-To: netmod@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: netmod@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id D2EE812015B for ; Tue, 23 Jul 2019 09:10:11 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIMWL_WL_HIGH=-0.001, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (1024-bit key) header.d=ericsson.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id h4_uzztbCgFk for ; Tue, 23 Jul 2019 09:10:09 -0700 (PDT) Received: from EUR01-HE1-obe.outbound.protection.outlook.com (mail-eopbgr130088.outbound.protection.outlook.com [40.107.13.88]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 8835312012C for ; Tue, 23 Jul 2019 09:10:08 -0700 (PDT) ARC-Seal: i=1; a=rsa-sha256; s=arcselector9901; d=microsoft.com; cv=none; b=gWFecNxfcddvqlPqST1BadqdQ3BtOBMhvUuF8juSJQPTUhrsSIcJI1bsm3jXYAx8W9fuDe/6CB+WVdqWuk12ocIGsPI0QJBVjPIddkrTkzNFDOU2K/Be5HIZYHT/iZk+/QrwNSoMcrujwm7Cba7BReB92yGd3HGZrYfI0Chy5ewx83m9m0unlYuZtfNKxSnDC0/WU4pUiPxuN25cLzHddm6l1oj4nriEPtufT4fBMrpIRTm99ngkg8XsmLVyYsCLr5lRIT4lRBBbOgcRa4diKY4bPc7sZDsAodu6tnlkkrJHgCIQa4ANIZkfibHPLZ0obL0Q85aopCeJIIqo0SFIUw== ARC-Message-Signature: i=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=microsoft.com; s=arcselector9901; h=From:Date:Subject:Message-ID:Content-Type:MIME-Version:X-MS-Exchange-SenderADCheck; bh=8Jm6Fps3tJrvZDAXR9vf9zd9/FNuT8Y6TOtmPYNbfIU=; b=djvPgVdRuwJ/m9qja0mxBfoWkm8552lQcjCF6r0BbZ7VQAHrGnE4BXXli3VbpONJ0lQ5m9o0mUUZ5zvGbmvCCar/en/CnllNaQguF4cD312IG4BnlIUNphLueg800u8kUDDIPKmaX4S2iWJdOM/m6TcqE0riIReIZMTexBrHPJ/IZUgzIG+OBHf145iJu/GiRgHZH4JHgJrBi8uFVbcSfLxEsKnoA3noxIwLEPH7haOQCsusiL5eU5uEQ1/Quo3upxX/BuHNu17oAOGq6PriccTHCd6yIaUhqC0HkwGe521IBNImJ6ffbmnKMOZ1RKkJw/8f9fpmd44+pN6z5UUnHg== ARC-Authentication-Results: i=1; mx.microsoft.com 1;spf=pass smtp.mailfrom=ericsson.com;dmarc=pass action=none header.from=ericsson.com;dkim=pass header.d=ericsson.com;arc=none DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=ericsson.com; s=selector2; h=From:Date:Subject:Message-ID:Content-Type:MIME-Version:X-MS-Exchange-SenderADCheck; bh=8Jm6Fps3tJrvZDAXR9vf9zd9/FNuT8Y6TOtmPYNbfIU=; b=nn/rHX73bEyPr71RMnQWB414xr3HDhKBi7TTV6HR2zUKi3P13oiWHE7CKBVi/LLR+vKJkwB4BSnsSr2DwdnLSmwsePIhZH0uDpIoZextPCSXo2zanHBD+ZpNJTwQEPyOWDBUvAqUa4ddwXrczjqpMANcH3Q2FRERaMtPeFuhxtM= Received: from VI1PR0701MB2286.eurprd07.prod.outlook.com (10.169.137.153) by VI1PR0701MB3023.eurprd07.prod.outlook.com (10.173.72.11) with Microsoft SMTP Server (version=TLS1_2, cipher=TLS_ECDHE_RSA_WITH_AES_256_GCM_SHA384) id 15.20.2115.10; Tue, 23 Jul 2019 16:10:06 +0000 Received: from VI1PR0701MB2286.eurprd07.prod.outlook.com ([fe80::5556:4c20:cd8d:686a]) by VI1PR0701MB2286.eurprd07.prod.outlook.com ([fe80::5556:4c20:cd8d:686a%11]) with mapi id 15.20.2115.005; Tue, 23 Jul 2019 16:10:05 +0000 From: =?iso-8859-1?Q?Bal=E1zs_Lengyel?= To: "'netmod@ietf.org'" Thread-Topic: 6991bis add protocol identities ? 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X-BeenThere: netmod@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: NETMOD WG list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 23 Jul 2019 16:10:12 -0000 ------=_NextPart_000_02B6_01D5414F.8F70E4E0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_001_02B7_01D5414F.8F70E4E0" ------=_NextPart_001_02B7_01D5414F.8F70E4E0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hello Jurgen, I have seen multiple places where protocol identities are needed. (Subscribed notifications, draft-mahesh-netconf-https-notif , = 3GPP YAMs). Wouldn=92t it be a good idea to define these centrally e.g. in = 6991bis? I know collecting a complete set of protocols would be a problem, but defining at least the most important ones centrally, is better than = every module defining its own identities, enums, strings. If we provide these protocol identities, it would also be good to find a = way to specify, that a YANG module supports only a subset of them not the = full set going back to X.25 and pigeon based IP. Regards Balazs =20 =20 ------=_NextPart_001_02B7_01D5414F.8F70E4E0 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

Hello Jurgen,

I = have seen multiple places where protocol identities are needed. = (Subscribed notifications, draft-mahesh-netconf-https-notif, 3GPP YAMs). Wouldn’t it be = a good idea to define these centrally e.g. in 6991bis?

I know collecting a complete set of protocols would be = a problem, but defining at least the most important ones centrally, is = better than every module defining its own identities, enums, = strings.

If we provide these protocol = identities, it would also be good to find a way to specify, that a YANG = module supports only a subset of them not the full set going back to = X.25 and pigeon based IP.

Regards = Balazs

 

 

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v5cj5WptP/oEV4gT+CDL7b7IU5TkguDcDg1s/+GmpNg4SEpaaupLk+LPxM7ctTGz1V31eZbdUTzbk+qjvEVGDW57QdH2CVOT7NjkkE6sfKdBSx5v6feVoOzTO2iayhFf4b2exCrI6MA8T1QZztmYYBZJp4s1o5icNGHINioO0n5EdQK7HKZ5JyeZzZGzxnbmJnkH5ACeaAxxognYPRJ7h4+SwW3AJ1zYu78K+sq5bekgzen/F8ckMILW7LXBbGlRJrFbLMq1C8zfEjM35v6WD0xPitITywJZvx7PsO1DeQUXGjhLYQta1EQfejTR7K/1hMSImY8MlYHsTh9ZkBcT1vF8A3fHRTXbVA+/bCDRb1gr74NMNVO1CiTJ7Mf4+rFjdKyuhGhVlnS83aPNm0dfXceDjdSePxIGipUBUlPhnD4= Content-Type: multipart/signed; protocol="application/x-pkcs7-signature"; micalg=SHA1; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_02C9_01D54151.4B5907E0" MIME-Version: 1.0 X-OriginatorOrg: ericsson.com X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-Network-Message-Id: 4963bc98-2d7d-43d6-93c7-08d70f89f614 X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-originalarrivaltime: 23 Jul 2019 16:22:30.8614 (UTC) X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-fromentityheader: Hosted X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-id: 92e84ceb-fbfd-47ab-be52-080c6b87953f X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-mailboxtype: HOSTED X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-userprincipalname: balazs.lengyel@ericsson.com X-MS-Exchange-Transport-CrossTenantHeadersStamped: VI1PR0701MB2494 Archived-At: Subject: Re: [netmod] YANG next X-BeenThere: netmod@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: NETMOD WG list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 23 Jul 2019 16:22:36 -0000 ------=_NextPart_000_02C9_01D54151.4B5907E0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hello, I share your concerns. However I see some ways of mitigating the = problem: 1) Maybe the extension based solution is better than many people would believe. If we put new features (like status-information, import-revision-or-derived, preliminary-status etc.) into extensions = e.g. Yang1-2:status-information older systems can just ignore them while = never systems would still be able to use them. This might not work for all new functionality, but would definitely work for some. 2) Some yang-next ideas are really clarifications of yang 1.1 (e.g. = Clarify YANG "status" keyword usage (e.g., hierarchical)) so they will not = disturb current users. Regards Balazs -----Original Message----- From: netmod On Behalf Of Ladislav Lhotka Sent: 2019. j=FAlius 23., kedd 12:03 To: NETMOD WG Subject: [netmod] YANG next Hi, this morning I attended the side meeting "Next Step of IETF YANG". I was somewhat misled into thinking that it would be about future evolution of YANG the language, which was not the case at all. However, my personal conclusion from the meeting is that it would be a total disaster to = throw in a new version of YANG within the next few years or so. The operators and equipment vendors are busy putting together YANG = modules and tools, filling the gaps, coping with NMDA, schema mount, IETF versus OpenConfig etc. A new YANG version (and modules written in it) would IMO = be extremely counter-productive at this rather turbulent stage. So, if we want to continue the yang-next discussion, I think we first = have to figure out how to evolve YANG without making waves in the current = YANG pond and let the operators and vendors do their work, without which YANG = can never succeed. Lada -- Ladislav Lhotka Head, CZ.NIC Labs PGP Key ID: 0xB8F92B08A9F76C67 _______________________________________________ netmod mailing list netmod@ietf.org https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/netmod ------=_NextPart_000_02C9_01D54151.4B5907E0 Content-Type: application/pkcs7-signature; name="smime.p7s" Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 Content-Disposition: attachment; filename="smime.p7s" MIAGCSqGSIb3DQEHAqCAMIACAQExCzAJBgUrDgMCGgUAMIAGCSqGSIb3DQEHAQAAoIIVbjCCAyAw ggIIoAMCAQICAR0wDQYJKoZIhvcNAQEFBQAwOTELMAkGA1UEBhMCRkkxDzANBgNVBAoTBlNvbmVy YTEZMBcGA1UEAxMQU29uZXJhIENsYXNzMiBDQTAeFw0wMTA0MDYwNzI5NDBaFw0yMTA0MDYwNzI5 NDBaMDkxCzAJBgNVBAYTAkZJMQ8wDQYDVQQKEwZTb25lcmExGTAXBgNVBAMTEFNvbmVyYSBDbGFz czIgQ0EwggEiMA0GCSqGSIb3DQEBAQUAA4IBDwAwggEKAoIBAQCQF0o1ncrwDZbHRPoWN/xIvb1/ gC01O+FvqGepvwMcTYxvMkfVQWikEwTBNQyahEP8XB3/ibPoFxjNkV/7iePqv05dfBsm03V57eaE 41flrSnE9Doo56V7hDZps/1edr2jLZnTkE4jKH0YY/FUOyaddluXQrL/rvBO7N05lU6DBn/nSUDI 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Date: Tue, 23 Jul 2019 09:22:37 -0700 Message-ID: To: Ladislav Lhotka Cc: NETMOD WG Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="00000000000082897d058e5b9ab5" Archived-At: Subject: Re: [netmod] YANG next X-BeenThere: netmod@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: NETMOD WG list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 23 Jul 2019 16:23:00 -0000 --00000000000082897d058e5b9ab5 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" On Tue, Jul 23, 2019 at 9:03 AM Ladislav Lhotka wrote: > Hi, > > this morning I attended the side meeting "Next Step of IETF YANG". I was > somewhat misled into thinking that it would be about future evolution of > YANG > the language, which was not the case at all. However, my personal > conclusion > from the meeting is that it would be a total disaster to throw in a new > version > of YANG within the next few years or so. > > I hope a summary of the meeting is posted to the WG mailing list. > The operators and equipment vendors are busy putting together YANG modules > and > tools, filling the gaps, coping with NMDA, schema mount, IETF versus > OpenConfig > etc. A new YANG version (and modules written in it) would IMO be extremely > counter-productive at this rather turbulent stage. > > So, if we want to continue the yang-next discussion, I think we first have > to > figure out how to evolve YANG without making waves in the current YANG > pond and > let the operators and vendors do their work, without which YANG can never > succeed. > > IMO a new version of YANG would not be disruptive (if done right). The issue is whether it is cleaner in the long-run to introduce NBC changes properly with a new version number, or not so properly, through YANG extensions. E.g -- adding a leaf to the datastore that says "I don't follow the rules in 7950" is still breaking the YANG 1.1 contract. Using extensions instead of real statements is problematic because they are optional to implement (as you point out all the time). Seems like the WG is going the YANG extension route, which has its own set of problems compared to a new YANG language version. Lada > Andy > > -- > Ladislav Lhotka > Head, CZ.NIC Labs > PGP Key ID: 0xB8F92B08A9F76C67 > > _______________________________________________ > netmod mailing list > netmod@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/netmod > --00000000000082897d058e5b9ab5 Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable


=
On Tue, Jul 23, 2019 at 9:03 AM Ladis= lav Lhotka <lhotka@nic.cz> wrote= :
Hi,

this morning I attended the side meeting "Next Step of IETF YANG"= . I was
somewhat misled into thinking that it would be about future evolution of YA= NG
the language, which was not the case at all. However, my personal conclusio= n
from the meeting is that it would be a total disaster to throw in a new ver= sion
of YANG within the next few years or so.



I hope a summary of the= meeting is posted to the WG mailing list.
=C2=A0
The operators and equipment vendors are busy putting together YANG modules = and
tools, filling the gaps, coping with NMDA, schema mount, IETF versus OpenCo= nfig
etc. A new YANG version (and modules written in it) would IMO be extremely<= br> counter-productive at this rather turbulent stage.

So, if we want to continue the yang-next discussion, I think we first have = to
figure out how to evolve YANG without making waves in the current YANG pond= and
let the operators and vendors do their work, without which YANG can never succeed.


IMO a new version of YANG would not be= disruptive (if done right).
The issue is whether it is cleaner i= n the long-run to introduce NBC changes properly
with a new versi= on number, or not so properly, through YANG extensions.

E.g -- adding a leaf to the datastore that says "I don't fol= low the rules in 7950"
is still breaking the YANG 1.1 contra= ct.=C2=A0 Using extensions instead of real statements
is problema= tic because they are optional to implement (as you point out all the time).=

Seems like the WG is going the YANG extension rou= te, which has its own set of problems
compared to a new YANG lang= uage version.


Lada

Andy
=C2=A0

--
Ladislav Lhotka
Head, CZ.NIC Labs
PGP Key ID: 0xB8F92B08A9F76C67

_______________________________________________
netmod mailing list
netmod@ietf.org https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/netmod
--00000000000082897d058e5b9ab5-- From nobody Tue Jul 23 09:53:51 2019 Return-Path: <0100016c1fc097e6-15bdeda7-0cb0-4477-9408-5325753cd799-000000@amazonses.watsen.net> X-Original-To: netmod@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: netmod@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id E8E8D12046F for ; Tue, 23 Jul 2019 09:53:41 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.898 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.898 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_NONE=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (1024-bit key) header.d=amazonses.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id SNUdKaG0sg02 for ; Tue, 23 Jul 2019 09:53:40 -0700 (PDT) Received: from a8-96.smtp-out.amazonses.com (a8-96.smtp-out.amazonses.com [54.240.8.96]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 0773112044D for ; Tue, 23 Jul 2019 09:53:32 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; q=dns/txt; c=relaxed/simple; s=6gbrjpgwjskckoa6a5zn6fwqkn67xbtw; d=amazonses.com; t=1563900811; h=Content-Type:Mime-Version:Subject:From:In-Reply-To:Date:Cc:Content-Transfer-Encoding:Message-Id:References:To:Feedback-ID; bh=Os8G0OohbrR5mEzYZ0x9UGeuEbbomQUwijwx+zGpNuY=; b=A/9bVFbGvFxOxixJUsBPVU+ejXERZ5PC50h3twZ3/tDnH27KrhaS55b+mtYNH6mP Y5bKp/pkSxGqS0dr9RC6eijHaIJiOpECubF4hrfF0P8MWMBzYqSvDapwBNJbJrbux5o H2xIcW9rnI/AjV13p5TEhlAKbmY/adDyKHLwlhkE= Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Mime-Version: 1.0 (1.0) From: Kent Watsen X-Mailer: iPhone Mail (16F203) In-Reply-To: Date: Tue, 23 Jul 2019 16:53:31 +0000 Cc: Juergen Schoenwaelder , =?utf-8?Q?Bal=C3=A1zs_Lengyel?= , "netmod@ietf.org" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Message-ID: <0100016c1fc097e6-15bdeda7-0cb0-4477-9408-5325753cd799-000000@email.amazonses.com> References: <20190722201510.mom7xg2mdi2ulbby@anna.jacobs.jacobs-university.de> <20190723142414.4sc5o2j6dawblwrm@anna.jacobs.jacobs-university.de> To: Andy Bierman X-SES-Outgoing: 2019.07.23-54.240.8.96 Feedback-ID: 1.us-east-1.DKmIRZFhhsBhtmFMNikgwZUWVrODEw9qVcPhqJEI2DA=:AmazonSES Archived-At: Subject: Re: [netmod] Instance-data-format - shall we define etag and last-modified annotation ? X-BeenThere: netmod@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: NETMOD WG list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 23 Jul 2019 16:53:44 -0000 > The values are associated with a representation of a response > to a request for some portion of the datastore contents. E.g., a represen= tation in XML must be a different > ETag than a JSON representation (of the exact same datastore contents). AFAIK, this is not required, and definitely not desirable.=20 > I suggest new meta-data be defined that has semantics specific to datastor= e contents, not > the HTTP representation of the response. agreed.=20 > IMO this meta-data is not really needed inside an instance file, but if in= cluded, then the values > should be associated with the representation (the instance file) and not t= he datastores. unsure, but inclined to think that it should be the same value that the targ= et device would return.=20 Kent // contributor=20= From nobody Tue Jul 23 10:08:45 2019 Return-Path: X-Original-To: netmod@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: netmod@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 09FFC12041F for ; Tue, 23 Jul 2019 10:08:44 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.999 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.999 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIMWL_WL_HIGH=-0.001, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, FROM_EXCESS_BASE64=0.001, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (1024-bit key) header.d=ericsson.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id toTE1J8r7w1R for ; Tue, 23 Jul 2019 10:08:41 -0700 (PDT) Received: from EUR01-HE1-obe.outbound.protection.outlook.com (mail-eopbgr130078.outbound.protection.outlook.com [40.107.13.78]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 8C323120437 for ; Tue, 23 Jul 2019 10:08:40 -0700 (PDT) ARC-Seal: i=1; a=rsa-sha256; s=arcselector9901; d=microsoft.com; cv=none; b=j31ZwgNOhEJIiv1kehZHmeGt0hDdf4Ck2spJz6md6ZvlBK52A6e3l46CGnT3YVrYGxgEF/YioJgbDZ3lUdjiygO70WAHepw32b6rvFk21KP4bQp0GerXjQpow22pCq5iuruGsByf7FnLdc9JzMQLcNYqK1gsWRviMf7PwXz8AcJGEMR6KVKKJhRFHf1SrAuT55iowjvQHy8EOwWQ1fBGjOg4E3fdUGKLYaV3XN+upQ9xzMu8cnLFyeOArG+y5jMNV86ETa1e24czydCHnk+ietc/XPxjml0Mg0GhcMyekw1fmpPrXNyXUQtKzGTek/MGl5EhYJnSgcsCAXzcW6fBWw== ARC-Message-Signature: i=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=microsoft.com; s=arcselector9901; h=From:Date:Subject:Message-ID:Content-Type:MIME-Version:X-MS-Exchange-SenderADCheck; bh=CNQSfpiQga4aQZMjhLFiOSD9OOWB5bbQryFh4DoKlXU=; b=CwtLtvgtCVJJZ+honrJgi1j18zWiCkHfSqq9iXy45NDyo49Pmnlwg4a+Gj0h28hu0TzeQOcbn+fi/oZNeeDF7K5NjnunvBvLJhhx97/8hqBLWUq7dPqp3I2480nYxcX+6Sc3rsn8D08WuEx+1Z5ARnDs4tvPySba/dOBvXxYZU1GlCJo2noZDM2ZgjVtSRvAUpjMb4HDgjmEu0d2YW5VrjEow/Awm8PeapQW/aPg5GWFm7JFZLELtURgqs6TD19T7nVOM9CcRP26kB8BDKwXpFE41H4+F3P3MnzNfJ/ifV9fRDnKRrwEZQf/QyHO7KaLhsem8M9CxLdST8X/T28Rvw== ARC-Authentication-Results: i=1; mx.microsoft.com 1;spf=pass smtp.mailfrom=ericsson.com;dmarc=pass action=none header.from=ericsson.com;dkim=pass header.d=ericsson.com;arc=none DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=ericsson.com; s=selector2; h=From:Date:Subject:Message-ID:Content-Type:MIME-Version:X-MS-Exchange-SenderADCheck; bh=CNQSfpiQga4aQZMjhLFiOSD9OOWB5bbQryFh4DoKlXU=; b=Gd42GSsyVgE6QOw4qeB8vZ3ptbbE1jBIO3JTT+Qyk9GqxmNmiObG43qx6ld9zEBOx4golXZHNg9J+TQtrmUkR0qAr+KKjQUQm51OQc2ENLGoBEsQouGGASPQc+f6i3f2SA5/h1xUTjxPFQ2cH4oZmBLL/hWsPy0T3hSB1T/s2F4= Received: from VI1PR0701MB2286.eurprd07.prod.outlook.com (10.169.137.153) by VI1PR0701MB2877.eurprd07.prod.outlook.com (10.173.72.139) with Microsoft SMTP Server (version=TLS1_2, cipher=TLS_ECDHE_RSA_WITH_AES_256_GCM_SHA384) id 15.20.2115.10; Tue, 23 Jul 2019 17:08:36 +0000 Received: from VI1PR0701MB2286.eurprd07.prod.outlook.com ([fe80::5556:4c20:cd8d:686a]) by VI1PR0701MB2286.eurprd07.prod.outlook.com ([fe80::5556:4c20:cd8d:686a%11]) with mapi id 15.20.2115.005; Tue, 23 Jul 2019 17:08:36 +0000 From: =?utf-8?B?QmFsw6F6cyBMZW5neWVs?= To: Andy Bierman , Juergen Schoenwaelder , "netmod@ietf.org" Thread-Topic: [netmod] Instance-data-format - shall we define etag and last-modified annotation ? 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X-BeenThere: netmod@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: NETMOD WG list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 23 Jul 2019 17:08:44 -0000 ------=_NextPart_000_02DB_01D54154.D18F5EB0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_001_02DC_01D54154.D18F5EB0" ------=_NextPart_001_02DC_01D54154.D18F5EB0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hello, As Jurgen, Andy, Lada and Joe is opposed to defining the annotations in = the instance model draft, and I don=E2=80=99t see it as crucial, I will = take it out.=20 IMHO it is a useful bit of functionality for configuration data based = use-cases, and I very much fear it will not happen at all now; unless = people speak up it is removed. Regards Balazs =20 From: Andy Bierman =20 Sent: 2019. j=C3=BAlius 23., kedd 11:39 To: Juergen Schoenwaelder ; = Bal=C3=A1zs Lengyel ; netmod@ietf.org Subject: Re: [netmod] Instance-data-format - shall we define etag and = last-modified annotation ? =20 =20 =20 On Tue, Jul 23, 2019 at 7:24 AM Juergen Schoenwaelder = > wrote: Bal=C3=A1zs, I am not sure these belongs to the data types collection. If these annotations are a per datastore properties or per configuration datastore properties (I am not sure these properties make a lot of sense for dynamically changing data in , or these properties only make sense for config true nodes, more discussion needed I guess), then the logical place would be to define them would be where the datastores are defined. I understand the timing concern but my preference is to workout what these annotations really are in an NMDA world and in a second step to figure out a way to define them in a reasonable amount of time. =20 This work needs a lot more thought because this WG is sort of abusing = these fields, intended for HTTP caching. The values are associated with a = representation of a response to a request for some portion of the datastore contents. E.g., a = representation in XML must be a different ETag than a JSON representation (of the exact same datastore contents). =20 I suggest new meta-data be defined that has semantics specific to = datastore contents, not the HTTP representation of the response. =20 IMO this meta-data is not really needed inside an instance file, but if = included, then the values should be associated with the representation (the instance file) and not = the datastores. =20 =20 /js =20 =20 Andy =20 On Tue, Jul 23, 2019 at 02:11:23PM +0000, Bal=C3=A1zs Lengyel wrote: > Hello J=C3=BCrgen, > Could the etag and last-modified annotations be moved to 6991bis? > Regards Balazs >=20 > -----Original Message----- > From: Juergen Schoenwaelder =20 > Sent: 2019. j=C3=BAlius 22., h=C3=A9tf=C5=91 16:15 > To: Bal=C3=A1zs Lengyel > > Cc: netmod@ietf.org =20 > Subject: Re: [netmod] Instance-data-format - shall we define etag and > last-modified annotation ? >=20 > On Mon, Jul 22, 2019 at 07:23:59PM +0000, Bal=C3=A1zs Lengyel wrote: > > Hello, > >=20 > > Restconf (rfc8040) defined to useful bits of metadata about a YANG=20 > > defined > > datastore: entity-tag and the last-modified timestamp. > >=20 > > These can be very useful in instance data sets, however Restconf=20 > > defines an encoding for these (as part of the http headers) that can = > > not be used in instance-data-sets. >=20 > This may actually point out a flaw or omission of RFC 8527. RFC 8040 = defines > an entity-tag for its "unified" datastore and it says "if the RESTCONF > server is co-located with a NETCONF server, then this entity-tag MUST = be for > the "running" datastore". So it is a bit unclear what happens with = other > NMDA datastores and I did not quickly find something in RFC 8527. (For > example, can have a distinct etag for ? > =20 > > draft-ietf-netmod-yang-instance-file-format-03#section-7.2 > > > = =20 > > section-7.2> defines metadata annotations for these two, that = can be > > used in instance data > >=20 > > md:annotation entity-tag { > > type string; > > description "Used to encode the entity-tag ."; > > } > > md:annotation last-modified { > > type yang:date-and-time; > > description "Contains the date and time when the annotated > > instance was last modified (or created)."; > > } > >=20 > > In order to be able to include this data, the annotations need to be = > > defined in some YANG module. > >=20 > > The question has been raised whether > >=20 > > 1. these annotations should be defined in the = ietf-yang-instance-data > > module as it needs them, as that is open or > > 2. the annotations should be defined in another draft in a separate > > YANG module as any other annotation > >=20 > > The first option is better because the instance-data needs these=20 > > annotations, and at this point we see no other user for the=20 > > annotation, and in this case the ongoing instance data draft will=20 > > define it > >=20 > > The second option is better because, if later there are other users=20 > > for these annotations, it might be strange to reference the=20 > > ietf-yang-instance-data module. Also why provide special treatment = to=20 > > these > > 2 annotations? > >=20 > > The authors support option 1 and don't have the time to start a new=20 > > draft to define these annotations. > >=20 > > On IETF105 in the room there was more support for option 1.=20 > >=20 > > Please indicate if you have an opinion about the choice of 1 or 2 >=20 > Version -03 only defines these annotations but does not do anything = specific > with these definitions. So if the annotations are defined elsewhere, = the ID > is as complete as before. If entity-tag and last-modified are actually = seen > as datastore properties, it would be nice to have them defined in the = NMDA > documents (and it seems we overlooked this when we did the NMDA work). >=20 > I think this needs a bit of discussion whether these are actually seen = as > datastore properties. But in this case, I would lean towards option 2. >=20 > /js >=20 > --=20 > Juergen Schoenwaelder Jacobs University Bremen gGmbH > Phone: +49 421 200 3587 Campus Ring 1 | 28759 Bremen | Germany > Fax: +49 421 200 3103 --=20 Juergen Schoenwaelder Jacobs University Bremen gGmbH Phone: +49 421 200 3587 Campus Ring 1 | 28759 Bremen | Germany Fax: +49 421 200 3103 _______________________________________________ netmod mailing list netmod@ietf.org =20 https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/netmod ------=_NextPart_001_02DC_01D54154.D18F5EB0 Content-Type: text/html; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

Hello,

As Jurgen, = Andy, Lada and Joe is opposed to defining the annotations in the = instance model draft, and I don=E2=80=99t see it as crucial, I will take = it out.

IMHO it is a useful bit of = functionality for configuration data based use-cases, and I very much = fear it will not happen at all now; unless people speak up it is = removed.

Regards = =C2=A0Balazs

 

From: Andy Bierman <andy@yumaworks.com> =
Sent: 2019. j=C3=BAlius 23., kedd 11:39
To: Juergen = Schoenwaelder <j.schoenwaelder@jacobs-university.de>; Bal=C3=A1zs = Lengyel <balazs.lengyel@ericsson.com>; = netmod@ietf.org
Subject: Re: [netmod] Instance-data-format - = shall we define etag and last-modified annotation ?

 

 

 

On = Tue, Jul 23, 2019 at 7:24 AM Juergen Schoenwaelder <j.schoenwaelder@jaco= bs-university.de> wrote:

Bal=C3=A1zs,

I am not sure these = belongs to the data types collection. If these
annotations are a per = datastore properties or per configuration
datastore properties (I am = not sure these properties make a lot of
sense for dynamically = changing data in <operational>, or these
properties only make = sense for config true nodes, more discussion
needed I guess), then = the logical place would be to define them would
be where the = datastores are defined.

I understand the timing concern but my = preference is to workout what
these annotations really are in an NMDA = world and in a second step to
figure out a way to define them in a = reasonable amount of time.

 

This work needs a lot more thought because this WG is = sort of abusing these fields,

intended for HTTP caching. The values are associated = with a representation of a response

to a request for some portion of the datastore = contents.  E.g., a representation in XML must be a = different

ETag than a JSON = representation (of the exact same datastore = contents).

 

I = suggest new meta-data be defined that has semantics specific to = datastore contents, not

the HTTP representation of the = response.

 

IMO this meta-data is not really needed inside an = instance file, but if included, then the = values

should be = associated with the representation (the instance file) and not the = datastores.

 

 

/js

 

 

Andy

 


On = Tue, Jul 23, 2019 at 02:11:23PM +0000, Bal=C3=A1zs Lengyel = wrote:
> Hello J=C3=BCrgen,
> Could the etag and = last-modified annotations be moved to 6991bis?
> Regards = Balazs
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Juergen = Schoenwaelder <j.schoenwaelder@jacobs-university.de>
> = Sent: 2019. j=C3=BAlius 22., h=C3=A9tf=C5=91 16:15
> To: = Bal=C3=A1zs Lengyel <balazs.lengyel@ericsson.com>
> Cc: netmod@ietf.org
> Subject: Re: [netmod] = Instance-data-format - shall we define etag and
> last-modified = annotation ?
>
> On Mon, Jul 22, 2019 at 07:23:59PM +0000, = Bal=C3=A1zs Lengyel wrote:
> > Hello,
> >
> = > Restconf (rfc8040) defined to useful bits of metadata about a YANG =
> > defined
> > datastore: entity-tag and the = last-modified timestamp.
> >
> > These can be very = useful in instance data sets, however Restconf
> > defines an = encoding for these (as part of the http headers) that can
> > = not be used in instance-data-sets.
>
> This may actually = point out a flaw or omission of RFC 8527. RFC 8040 defines
> an = entity-tag for its "unified" datastore and it says "if = the RESTCONF
> server is co-located with a NETCONF server, then = this entity-tag MUST be for
> the "running" = datastore". So it is a bit unclear what happens with other
> = NMDA datastores and I did not quickly find something in RFC 8527. = (For
> example, can have a distinct etag for = <startup/>?
> 
> > = draft-ietf-netmod-yang-instance-file-format-03#section-7.2
> = >
> <https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-netmod-yang-inst= ance-file-format-03#
> > section-7.2>    =  defines metadata annotations for these two, that can be
> = > used in instance data
> >
> >  =  md:annotation entity-tag {
> >      =  type string;
> >       description = "Used to encode the entity-tag .";
> >    =  }
> >     md:annotation last-modified = {
> >       type = yang:date-and-time;
> >       description = "Contains the date and time when the annotated
> >  =        instance was last modified (or = created).";
> >     }
> >
> = > In order to be able to include this data, the annotations need to = be
> > defined in some YANG module.
> >
> > = The question has been raised whether
> >
> > 1.  = these annotations should be defined in the = ietf-yang-instance-data
> > module as it needs them, as that is = open or
> > 2.  the annotations should be defined in = another draft in a separate
> > YANG module as any other = annotation
> >
> > The first option is better because = the instance-data needs these
> > annotations, and at this = point we see no other user for the
> > annotation, and in this = case the ongoing instance data draft will
> > define = it
> >
> > The second option is better because, if = later there are other users
> > for these annotations, it = might be strange to reference the
> > ietf-yang-instance-data = module. Also why provide special treatment to
> > = these
> > 2 annotations?
> >
> > The authors = support option 1 and don't have the time to start a new
> > = draft to define these annotations.
> >
> > On IETF105 = in the room there was more support for option 1.
> >
> = > Please indicate if you have an opinion about the choice of 1 or = 2
>
> Version -03 only defines these annotations but does = not do anything specific
> with these definitions. So if the = annotations are defined elsewhere, the ID
> is as complete as = before. If entity-tag and last-modified are actually seen
> as = datastore properties, it would be nice to have them defined in the = NMDA
> documents (and it seems we overlooked this when we did the = NMDA work).
>
> I think this needs a bit of discussion = whether these are actually seen as
> datastore properties. But in = this case, I would lean towards option 2.
>
> /js
> =
> --
> Juergen Schoenwaelder        =    Jacobs University Bremen gGmbH
> Phone: +49 421 200 = 3587         Campus Ring 1 | 28759 Bremen | = Germany
> Fax:   +49 421 200 3103      =    <https://www.jacobs-university.de/>


--
Juergen Schoenwaelder          =  Jacobs University Bremen gGmbH
Phone: +49 421 200 3587  =        Campus Ring 1 | 28759 Bremen | = Germany
Fax:   +49 421 200 3103        =  <https://www.jacobs-university.de/>

______= _________________________________________
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netmod@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 664801206CA for ; Tue, 23 Jul 2019 10:38:38 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -6.997 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-6.997 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_HI=-5, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_NONE=0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (1024-bit key) header.d=nic.cz Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id VasKxkTGX-C9 for ; Tue, 23 Jul 2019 10:38:35 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail.nic.cz (mail.nic.cz [217.31.204.67]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 561011206CC for ; Tue, 23 Jul 2019 10:38:34 -0700 (PDT) Received: from birdie (unknown [IPv6:2001:67c:1232:144:1a4f:a84b:2bfd:c611]) by mail.nic.cz (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 61DCE140AF8; Tue, 23 Jul 2019 19:38:31 +0200 (CEST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/simple; d=nic.cz; s=default; t=1563903511; bh=uw8fSKPauxXH2CPXsHJEnLYgy52wg5QnjqCp1GnY7pQ=; h=From:To:Date; b=PzIiKyaFIO6grQmFBSmWi7nkHxY+PejqUtMjj1Enra03WwR9736iYbzAFOq2QP6kZ X0FEbQL3dRa5afN3Ls3GC3zo2l6WNv1RSrIuqU4tYMQHMmB+xHxF20Lt+zGnZQFBdB V/86b+nw7jNnw/uKrWfz7VNiJ8oXC3YWluOh7hyE= Message-ID: From: Ladislav Lhotka To: =?ISO-8859-1?Q?Bal=E1zs?= Lengyel , NETMOD WG Date: Tue, 23 Jul 2019 13:38:30 -0400 In-Reply-To: References: Organization: CZ.NIC Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" User-Agent: Evolution 3.32.4 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Virus-Scanned: clamav-milter 0.100.3 at mail.nic.cz X-Virus-Status: Clean Archived-At: Subject: Re: [netmod] YANG next X-BeenThere: netmod@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: NETMOD WG list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 23 Jul 2019 17:38:38 -0000 On Tue, 2019-07-23 at 16:22 +0000, Balázs Lengyel wrote: > Hello, > I share your concerns. However I see some ways of mitigating the problem: > 1) Maybe the extension based solution is better than many people would > believe. If we put new features (like status-information, > import-revision-or-derived, preliminary-status etc.) into extensions e.g. > Yang1-2:status-information older systems can just ignore them while never > systems would still be able to use them. This might not work for all new > functionality, but would definitely work for some. This could work only for extensions that do not affect YANG semantics. For example, if a server actively uses schema mount, then a client that ignores it is next to useless. For critical extensions that affect YANG semantics, it would IMO be necessary to develop modules supporting them in separate branches, along with their 1.1-only versions. > 2) Some yang-next ideas are really clarifications of yang 1.1 (e.g. Clarify > YANG "status" keyword usage (e.g., hierarchical)) so they will not disturb > current users. Of course, clarifications and bug fixes are OK. Lada > Regards Balazs > > -----Original Message----- > From: netmod On Behalf Of Ladislav Lhotka > Sent: 2019. július 23., kedd 12:03 > To: NETMOD WG > Subject: [netmod] YANG next > > Hi, > > this morning I attended the side meeting "Next Step of IETF YANG". I was > somewhat misled into thinking that it would be about future evolution of > YANG the language, which was not the case at all. However, my personal > conclusion from the meeting is that it would be a total disaster to throw in > a new version of YANG within the next few years or so. > > The operators and equipment vendors are busy putting together YANG modules > and tools, filling the gaps, coping with NMDA, schema mount, IETF versus > OpenConfig etc. A new YANG version (and modules written in it) would IMO be > extremely counter-productive at this rather turbulent stage. > > So, if we want to continue the yang-next discussion, I think we first have > to figure out how to evolve YANG without making waves in the current YANG > pond and let the operators and vendors do their work, without which YANG can > never succeed. > > Lada > > -- > Ladislav Lhotka > Head, CZ.NIC Labs > PGP Key ID: 0xB8F92B08A9F76C67 > > _______________________________________________ > netmod mailing list > netmod@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/netmod -- Ladislav Lhotka Head, CZ.NIC Labs PGP Key ID: 0xB8F92B08A9F76C67 From nobody Tue Jul 23 11:00:47 2019 Return-Path: X-Original-To: netmod@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: netmod@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 14310120745 for ; Tue, 23 Jul 2019 11:00:35 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -6.996 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-6.996 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_HI=-5, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_NONE=0.001, TVD_PH_BODY_ACCOUNTS_PRE=0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (1024-bit key) header.d=nic.cz Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id f8WjmjRf2SiP for ; Tue, 23 Jul 2019 11:00:33 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail.nic.cz (mail.nic.cz [IPv6:2001:1488:800:400::400]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id E2AA5120765 for ; Tue, 23 Jul 2019 11:00:32 -0700 (PDT) Received: from birdie (unknown [IPv6:2001:67c:1232:144:1a4f:a84b:2bfd:c611]) by mail.nic.cz (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id BAB5F140B13; Tue, 23 Jul 2019 20:00:30 +0200 (CEST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/simple; d=nic.cz; s=default; t=1563904831; bh=X1wF7drMtocflpV0MJamQvpvNAoJl61I0BfsZ8DVYwU=; h=From:To:Date; b=xlbhcgmWGrAuxps4w+hp07wDfEvUklsx+mkaZ3US6974vVKXlumpl/g2rVRLyGfVV hqEOggwyoqm1/Fv0pZH1psy2YZ7763ZJqMmI4PLg+t8rehY92fxhrYW9CxU5QpHLeH k5ivmYB8YxPvtgNoe6kFRyZykyUB8vD0XKNjh64c= Message-ID: <02c4110737b4ff23f966e6153fad764f04436089.camel@nic.cz> From: Ladislav Lhotka To: Andy Bierman Cc: NETMOD WG Date: Tue, 23 Jul 2019 14:00:29 -0400 In-Reply-To: References: Organization: CZ.NIC Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" User-Agent: Evolution 3.32.4 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Virus-Scanned: clamav-milter 0.100.3 at mail.nic.cz X-Virus-Status: Clean Archived-At: Subject: Re: [netmod] YANG next X-BeenThere: netmod@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: NETMOD WG list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 23 Jul 2019 18:00:46 -0000 On Tue, 2019-07-23 at 09:22 -0700, Andy Bierman wrote: > > > On Tue, Jul 23, 2019 at 9:03 AM Ladislav Lhotka wrote: > > Hi, > > > > this morning I attended the side meeting "Next Step of IETF YANG". I was > > somewhat misled into thinking that it would be about future evolution of > > YANG > > the language, which was not the case at all. However, my personal conclusion > > from the meeting is that it would be a total disaster to throw in a new > > version > > of YANG within the next few years or so. > > > > > I hope a summary of the meeting is posted to the WG mailing list. I think so, minutes were taken. > > > The operators and equipment vendors are busy putting together YANG modules > > and > > tools, filling the gaps, coping with NMDA, schema mount, IETF versus > > OpenConfig > > etc. A new YANG version (and modules written in it) would IMO be extremely > > counter-productive at this rather turbulent stage. > > > > So, if we want to continue the yang-next discussion, I think we first have > > to > > figure out how to evolve YANG without making waves in the current YANG pond > > and > > let the operators and vendors do their work, without which YANG can never > > succeed. > > > > IMO a new version of YANG would not be disruptive (if done right). > The issue is whether it is cleaner in the long-run to introduce NBC changes > properly > with a new version number, or not so properly, through YANG extensions. I don't see much difference provided that the extensions will be properly signalled. But we have to take into account that some tools that people use may not be updated for quite some time, and if they cannot properly work with modules written for the new version (or extensions), then things will break. This problem is actually not limited to YANG itself - people are reporting problems with the transition to NMDA. > > E.g -- adding a leaf to the datastore that says "I don't follow the rules in > 7950" > is still breaking the YANG 1.1 contract. Using extensions instead of real > statements > is problematic because they are optional to implement (as you point out all > the time). Yes, hence critical extensions. However, the problem is still the same - these changes require updated tools, and not all tools will be updated immediately. I think that we should make sure that (at least in the IETF) all modules will be compatible with tools supporting YANG 1.1, say for the next 5 years. Lada > > Seems like the WG is going the YANG extension route, which has its own set of > problems > compared to a new YANG language version. > > > > Lada > > Andy > -- Ladislav Lhotka Head, CZ.NIC Labs PGP Key ID: 0xB8F92B08A9F76C67 From nobody Tue Jul 23 11:03:44 2019 Return-Path: X-Original-To: netmod@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: netmod@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 324EB1206E9 for ; Tue, 23 Jul 2019 11:03:42 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.901 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.901 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_H2=-0.001, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (768-bit key) header.d=labn.net Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id hXIKaoaVaFkC for ; Tue, 23 Jul 2019 11:03:40 -0700 (PDT) Received: from gproxy7-pub.mail.unifiedlayer.com (gproxy7-pub.mail.unifiedlayer.com [70.40.196.235]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id AAD5412029F for ; Tue, 23 Jul 2019 11:03:40 -0700 (PDT) Received: from CMGW (unknown [10.9.0.13]) by gproxy7.mail.unifiedlayer.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 92F6E2179D6 for ; Tue, 23 Jul 2019 11:49:34 -0600 (MDT) Received: from box313.bluehost.com ([69.89.31.113]) by cmsmtp with ESMTP id pyushV6VeNCWJpyushnIJA; Tue, 23 Jul 2019 11:49:34 -0600 X-Authority-Reason: nr=8 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; q=dns/txt; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=labn.net; s=default; h=Content-Transfer-Encoding:Content-Type:In-Reply-To:MIME-Version :Date:Message-ID:From:References:To:Subject:Sender:Reply-To:Cc:Content-ID: Content-Description:Resent-Date:Resent-From:Resent-Sender:Resent-To:Resent-Cc :Resent-Message-ID:List-Id:List-Help:List-Unsubscribe:List-Subscribe: List-Post:List-Owner:List-Archive; bh=CkQZbocZK9mvaytuotvJ03/3BvY1M1t+M03q+XUgn7s=; b=ZGlK1drjO7nB6EiRiLLFN2kRgi 7CSF5whnRgxlWlpZqMNkK9paL5BrY93koSwlJU6/jgxJOU+VIB4hL+jUFVtfmUCfRvZZTkDYHtsUQ yfIaVw0v6+ge7Ph++OfTnppUB; Received: from [127.0.0.1] (port=44085 helo=[IPv6:::1]) by box313.bluehost.com with esmtpsa (TLSv1.2:ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256:128) (Exim 4.92) (envelope-from ) id 1hpyus-002nzT-0q; Tue, 23 Jul 2019 11:49:34 -0600 To: Ladislav Lhotka , NETMOD WG References: From: Lou Berger Message-ID: <4583fa45-9571-c420-63bf-d56476dd941e@labn.net> Date: Tue, 23 Jul 2019 13:49:29 -0400 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 10.0; WOW64; rv:60.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/60.3.1 MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Content-Language: en-US X-AntiAbuse: This header was added to track abuse, please include it with any abuse report X-AntiAbuse: Primary Hostname - box313.bluehost.com X-AntiAbuse: Original Domain - ietf.org X-AntiAbuse: Originator/Caller UID/GID - [47 12] / [47 12] X-AntiAbuse: Sender Address Domain - labn.net X-BWhitelist: no X-Source-IP: 127.0.0.1 X-Source-L: Yes X-Exim-ID: 1hpyus-002nzT-0q X-Source: X-Source-Args: X-Source-Dir: X-Source-Sender: ([IPv6:::1]) [127.0.0.1]:44085 X-Source-Auth: lberger@labn.net X-Email-Count: 2 X-Source-Cap: bGFibm1vYmk7bGFibm1vYmk7Ym94MzEzLmJsdWVob3N0LmNvbQ== X-Local-Domain: yes Archived-At: Subject: Re: [netmod] YANG next X-BeenThere: netmod@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: NETMOD WG list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 23 Jul 2019 18:03:42 -0000 On 7/23/2019 12:03 PM, Ladislav Lhotka wrote: > this morning I attended the side meeting "Next Step of IETF YANG". I was > somewhat misled ... This IETF's "side-meeting" approach to non-WG meetings is quite confusing.  This meeting was *not* a WG nor was it part of any NetMod WG coordinated activity. Of course, any discussion on yang or other in-charter topics is always welcome on the list. Lou From nobody Tue Jul 23 11:08:32 2019 Return-Path: X-Original-To: netmod@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: netmod@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id AEA3D12075C for ; Tue, 23 Jul 2019 11:08:30 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.897 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.897 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_NONE=0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id eDrdrhSxRXsi for ; Tue, 23 Jul 2019 11:08:28 -0700 (PDT) Received: from atlas5.jacobs-university.de (atlas5.jacobs-university.de [212.201.44.20]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ADH-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 275D7120767 for ; Tue, 23 Jul 2019 11:08:20 -0700 (PDT) Received: from localhost (demetrius5.irc-it.jacobs-university.de [10.70.0.222]) by atlas5.jacobs-university.de (Postfix) with ESMTP id D542D86A; Tue, 23 Jul 2019 20:08:18 +0200 (CEST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at jacobs-university.de Received: from atlas5.jacobs-university.de ([10.70.0.198]) by localhost (demetrius5.jacobs-university.de [10.70.0.222]) (amavisd-new, port 10032) with ESMTP id Z4Koq0wuOm1a; Tue, 23 Jul 2019 20:08:18 +0200 (CEST) Received: from hermes.jacobs-university.de (hermes.jacobs-university.de [212.201.44.23]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (Client CN "hermes.jacobs-university.de", Issuer "DFN-Verein Global Issuing CA" (verified OK)) by atlas5.jacobs-university.de (Postfix) with ESMTPS; Tue, 23 Jul 2019 20:08:18 +0200 (CEST) Received: from localhost (demetrius5.irc-it.jacobs-university.de [10.70.0.222]) by hermes.jacobs-university.de (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8E7E92012C; Tue, 23 Jul 2019 20:08:18 +0200 (CEST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at jacobs-university.de Received: from hermes.jacobs-university.de ([212.201.44.23]) by localhost (demetrius5.jacobs-university.de [10.70.0.222]) (amavisd-new, port 10028) with ESMTP id 0zavWzuyhB3p; Tue, 23 Jul 2019 20:08:18 +0200 (CEST) Received: from exchange.jacobs-university.de (SXCHMB01.jacobs.jacobs-university.de [10.70.0.120]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (Client CN "exchange.jacobs-university.de", Issuer "DFN-Verein Global Issuing CA" (verified OK)) by hermes.jacobs-university.de (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 3F2C220129; Tue, 23 Jul 2019 20:08:18 +0200 (CEST) Received: from anna.localdomain (10.50.218.117) by sxchmb03.jacobs.jacobs-university.de (10.70.0.155) with Microsoft SMTP Server (version=TLS1_2, cipher=TLS_ECDHE_RSA_WITH_AES_256_GCM_SHA384) id 15.1.1713.5; Tue, 23 Jul 2019 20:08:17 +0200 Received: by anna.localdomain (Postfix, from userid 501) id 6DC5B3459F0; Tue, 23 Jul 2019 20:08:16 +0200 (CEST) Date: Tue, 23 Jul 2019 20:08:16 +0200 From: Juergen Schoenwaelder To: =?utf-8?Q?Bal=C3=A1zs?= Lengyel CC: "'netmod@ietf.org'" Message-ID: <20190723180816.ydsjtoqe3omwni4f@anna.jacobs.jacobs-university.de> Reply-To: Juergen Schoenwaelder Mail-Followup-To: =?utf-8?Q?Bal=C3=A1zs?= Lengyel , "'netmod@ietf.org'" References: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: User-Agent: NeoMutt/20180716 X-ClientProxiedBy: SXCHMB03.jacobs.jacobs-university.de (10.70.0.155) To sxchmb03.jacobs.jacobs-university.de (10.70.0.155) X-Clacks-Overhead: GNU Terry Pratchett Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Archived-At: Subject: Re: [netmod] 6991bis add protocol identities ? X-BeenThere: netmod@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: NETMOD WG list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 23 Jul 2019 18:08:31 -0000 Bal=E1zs, I am not sure I fully understand what you are looking for but it sounds to me like you are looking for an IANA maintained YANG module rather than a common YANG type (i.e., this may be considered out of scope for RFC 6991 bis). By doing this, you will likely face the same problem the crypto types are facing; having a long list of protocol identities (crypto identities) does not express that only certain subsets are useful in certain contexts (a design time subset) and that implementations are supporting only certain subsets of the subset (an implementation time subset). I am sure we have a YANG next isssue for the later one, I am not sure we have one for the first. /js On Tue, Jul 23, 2019 at 04:10:05PM +0000, Bal=E1zs Lengyel wrote: > Hello Jurgen, >=20 > I have seen multiple places where protocol identities are needed. > (Subscribed notifications, draft-mahesh-netconf-https-notif > , 3= GPP > YAMs). Wouldn=92t it be a good idea to define these centrally e.g. in 6= 991bis? >=20 > I know collecting a complete set of protocols would be a problem, but > defining at least the most important ones centrally, is better than eve= ry > module defining its own identities, enums, strings. >=20 > If we provide these protocol identities, it would also be good to find = a way > to specify, that a YANG module supports only a subset of them not the f= ull > set going back to X.25 and pigeon based IP. >=20 > Regards Balazs >=20 > =20 >=20 > =20 >=20 > _______________________________________________ > netmod mailing list > netmod@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/netmod --=20 Juergen Schoenwaelder Jacobs University Bremen gGmbH Phone: +49 421 200 3587 Campus Ring 1 | 28759 Bremen | Germany Fax: +49 421 200 3103 From nobody Tue Jul 23 11:14:34 2019 Return-Path: X-Original-To: netmod@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: netmod@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 027C2120783 for ; Tue, 23 Jul 2019 11:14:32 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.598 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.598 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW=-0.7, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_NONE=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id NtKpbR7URC7H for ; Tue, 23 Jul 2019 11:14:30 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mta5.iomartmail.com (mta5.iomartmail.com [62.128.193.155]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id C90A0120750 for ; Tue, 23 Jul 2019 11:14:29 -0700 (PDT) Received: from vs3.iomartmail.com (vs3.iomartmail.com [10.12.10.124]) by mta5.iomartmail.com (8.14.4/8.14.4) with ESMTP id x6NIERrZ027325; Tue, 23 Jul 2019 19:14:27 +0100 Received: from vs3.iomartmail.com (unknown [127.0.0.1]) by IMSVA (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7125322032; Tue, 23 Jul 2019 19:14:27 +0100 (BST) Received: from asmtp1.iomartmail.com (unknown [10.12.10.248]) by vs3.iomartmail.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 5C4982203C; Tue, 23 Jul 2019 19:14:27 +0100 (BST) Received: from LAPTOPK7AS653V (dhcp-8f5c.meeting.ietf.org [31.133.143.92]) (authenticated bits=0) by asmtp1.iomartmail.com (8.14.4/8.14.4) with ESMTP id x6NIEPCw010615 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 bits=256 verify=NO); Tue, 23 Jul 2019 19:14:26 +0100 Reply-To: From: "Adrian Farrel" To: "'Ladislav Lhotka'" , "'Andy Bierman'" Cc: "'NETMOD WG'" References: <02c4110737b4ff23f966e6153fad764f04436089.camel@nic.cz> In-Reply-To: <02c4110737b4ff23f966e6153fad764f04436089.camel@nic.cz> Date: Tue, 23 Jul 2019 19:14:25 +0100 Organization: Old Dog Consulting Message-ID: <030e01d54182$76c4a390$644deab0$@olddog.co.uk> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook 16.0 Thread-Index: AQGlpLGfv/216FN7AhX8pdFfQALAgwFzNvtmAm40EHGnGK460A== Content-Language: en-gb X-Originating-IP: 31.133.143.92 X-Thinkmail-Auth: adrian@olddog.co.uk X-TM-AS-GCONF: 00 X-TM-AS-Product-Ver: IMSVA-9.0.0.1623-8.2.0.1013-24790.001 X-TM-AS-Result: No--3.250-10.0-31-10 X-imss-scan-details: No--3.250-10.0-31-10 X-TMASE-Version: IMSVA-9.0.0.1623-8.2.1013-24790.001 X-TMASE-Result: 10--3.250200-10.000000 X-TMASE-MatchedRID: QfHZjzml1E/xIbpQ8BhdbPHkpkyUphL9MfFOYpCI/uJvd96Stg5JDyC5 58RjPuPqiAfZ7JD9fve675eeDaPtUVQK9synZNvGiPIR0a1i6hd9iuvWn3J8KvSeWrzHd3swRa3 zAH87hu0Kz/TuL8lFXbFYbnVa/fxUjISMJ2rDx/uInASnzB5VfMt3zHe6QppedT3y1rDU/Smtvt +NPrqrbYO2/2cBV/ZjSMp3wDMtamsBgg16BqCVsJjhZxhC9CTjfS0Ip2eEHny+qryzYw2E8M4ba jgO0kgv3UZhrlpuBAXQLWxBF9DMQcRB0bsfrpPIcSqbxBgG0w6sUFdd2JvBDnfU7v99kxB/CZY0 HAb6cch8qxeR5v8CEcTHfrto/aRgnEO9dsvpjfl6yJAF/ulXbbfZJc+8OtevMPLOuz+Y1UbEKh5 bR1PYFof8kK+K1APpIcrpoIxNunU/lq6oymdYKw== X-TMASE-SNAP-Result: 1.821001.0001-0-1-12:0,22:0,33:0,34:0-0 Archived-At: Subject: Re: [netmod] YANG next X-BeenThere: netmod@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: NETMOD WG list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 23 Jul 2019 18:14:32 -0000 >> I hope a summary of the meeting is posted to the WG mailing list. > > I think so, minutes were taken. I scribbled. So did Dan King. We sent our scribbles to Geng Liang and Qin Wu. They will process. It was a side meeting. As Lou says, it was not part of any existing WG. Nor was it a BoF. How and where and if the minutes are published is not a question for me to answer. Adrian PS I don't think this was a debate about creating a new version of the YANG language, and I don't think extensions or modifications to the YANG language were high on the list of "fixes" to the questions raised in the meeting. That doesn't mean that debate shouldn't/cannot happen, just that it is not (highly) relevant to the discussion at hand. From nobody Tue Jul 23 11:21:29 2019 Return-Path: X-Original-To: netmod@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: netmod@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4C12A1206AA for ; Tue, 23 Jul 2019 11:21:25 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -6.998 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-6.998 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_HI=-5, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_NONE=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (1024-bit key) header.d=nic.cz Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 7OYrQabdfn-t for ; Tue, 23 Jul 2019 11:21:23 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail.nic.cz (mail.nic.cz [IPv6:2001:1488:800:400::400]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 46270120476 for ; Tue, 23 Jul 2019 11:21:23 -0700 (PDT) Received: from birdie (unknown [IPv6:2001:67c:1232:144:1a4f:a84b:2bfd:c611]) by mail.nic.cz (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 5207D140ADD; Tue, 23 Jul 2019 20:21:21 +0200 (CEST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/simple; d=nic.cz; s=default; t=1563906081; bh=+1SThZwBenl6bNZSXWOUSs+PPb/b9k9OzhnxJLHLCqI=; h=From:To:Date; b=po8M6Wx/mAZ+WdgWEsABQUgt4BFlpptyq5UPdO1W0C0kWsYBFe6lj1U/KdLoC7G/Y tzQgQUdnfes7IvnHvafyN/y03pusGFZyqpcOg6ffh90zKGQs15B67zE6dCgfoAJOVS M3dtsjYKz4wveUb4cpiEr27jnQr0+7EYW6hroM/s= Message-ID: <1cf260a1333319e1694c15af09afa8e56d117bb2.camel@nic.cz> From: Ladislav Lhotka To: adrian@olddog.co.uk, 'Andy Bierman' Cc: 'NETMOD WG' Date: Tue, 23 Jul 2019 14:21:20 -0400 In-Reply-To: <030e01d54182$76c4a390$644deab0$@olddog.co.uk> References: <02c4110737b4ff23f966e6153fad764f04436089.camel@nic.cz> <030e01d54182$76c4a390$644deab0$@olddog.co.uk> Organization: CZ.NIC Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" User-Agent: Evolution 3.32.4 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Virus-Scanned: clamav-milter 0.100.3 at mail.nic.cz X-Virus-Status: Clean Archived-At: Subject: Re: [netmod] YANG next X-BeenThere: netmod@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: NETMOD WG list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 23 Jul 2019 18:21:25 -0000 On Tue, 2019-07-23 at 19:14 +0100, Adrian Farrel wrote: > > > I hope a summary of the meeting is posted to the WG mailing list. > > > > I think so, minutes were taken. > > I scribbled. > So did Dan King. > We sent our scribbles to Geng Liang and Qin Wu. > They will process. Thanks for that. > > It was a side meeting. > As Lou says, it was not part of any existing WG. Nor was it a BoF. > > How and where and if the minutes are published is not a question for me to > answer. > > Adrian > > PS I don't think this was a debate about creating a new version of the YANG > language, and I don't think extensions or modifications to the YANG language > were high on the list of "fixes" to the questions raised in the meeting. Right, this is what I said in the beginning of my message. Lada > That doesn't mean that debate shouldn't/cannot happen, just that it is not > (highly) relevant to the discussion at hand. > > -- Ladislav Lhotka Head, CZ.NIC Labs PGP Key ID: 0xB8F92B08A9F76C67 From nobody Tue Jul 23 11:23:23 2019 Return-Path: X-Original-To: netmod@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: netmod@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7784A1207D8 for ; Tue, 23 Jul 2019 11:23:10 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.897 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.897 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_NONE=0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 9D-WfsPZZa_a for ; Tue, 23 Jul 2019 11:23:08 -0700 (PDT) Received: from atlas5.jacobs-university.de (atlas5.jacobs-university.de [212.201.44.20]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ADH-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id C31D51207C9 for ; Tue, 23 Jul 2019 11:23:07 -0700 (PDT) Received: from localhost (demetrius5.irc-it.jacobs-university.de [10.70.0.222]) by atlas5.jacobs-university.de (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7FD1A86B; Tue, 23 Jul 2019 20:23:06 +0200 (CEST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at jacobs-university.de Received: from atlas5.jacobs-university.de ([10.70.0.198]) by localhost (demetrius5.jacobs-university.de [10.70.0.222]) (amavisd-new, port 10032) with ESMTP id y9bSIReLjhBp; Tue, 23 Jul 2019 20:23:06 +0200 (CEST) Received: from hermes.jacobs-university.de (hermes.jacobs-university.de [212.201.44.23]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (Client CN "hermes.jacobs-university.de", Issuer "DFN-Verein Global Issuing CA" (verified OK)) by atlas5.jacobs-university.de (Postfix) with ESMTPS; Tue, 23 Jul 2019 20:23:06 +0200 (CEST) Received: from localhost (demetrius5.irc-it.jacobs-university.de [10.70.0.222]) by hermes.jacobs-university.de (Postfix) with ESMTP id 67E042012C; Tue, 23 Jul 2019 20:23:06 +0200 (CEST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at jacobs-university.de Received: from hermes.jacobs-university.de ([212.201.44.23]) by localhost (demetrius5.jacobs-university.de [10.70.0.222]) (amavisd-new, port 10028) with ESMTP id jzQ3pJtR_lo6; Tue, 23 Jul 2019 20:23:06 +0200 (CEST) Received: from exchange.jacobs-university.de (SXCHMB01.jacobs.jacobs-university.de [10.70.0.120]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (Client CN "exchange.jacobs-university.de", Issuer "DFN-Verein Global Issuing CA" (verified OK)) by hermes.jacobs-university.de (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 1D37420129; Tue, 23 Jul 2019 20:23:06 +0200 (CEST) Received: from anna.localdomain (10.50.218.117) by sxchmb03.jacobs.jacobs-university.de (10.70.0.155) with Microsoft SMTP Server (version=TLS1_2, cipher=TLS_ECDHE_RSA_WITH_AES_256_GCM_SHA384) id 15.1.1713.5; Tue, 23 Jul 2019 20:23:05 +0200 Received: by anna.localdomain (Postfix, from userid 501) id 5AB27345AA3; Tue, 23 Jul 2019 20:23:04 +0200 (CEST) Date: Tue, 23 Jul 2019 20:23:04 +0200 From: Juergen Schoenwaelder To: Ladislav Lhotka CC: Andy Bierman , NETMOD WG Message-ID: <20190723182304.5yrp54q26zhv7uvb@anna.jacobs.jacobs-university.de> Reply-To: Juergen Schoenwaelder Mail-Followup-To: Ladislav Lhotka , Andy Bierman , NETMOD WG References: <02c4110737b4ff23f966e6153fad764f04436089.camel@nic.cz> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <02c4110737b4ff23f966e6153fad764f04436089.camel@nic.cz> User-Agent: NeoMutt/20180716 X-ClientProxiedBy: SXCHMB03.jacobs.jacobs-university.de (10.70.0.155) To sxchmb03.jacobs.jacobs-university.de (10.70.0.155) Archived-At: Subject: Re: [netmod] YANG next X-BeenThere: netmod@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: NETMOD WG list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 23 Jul 2019 18:23:22 -0000 On Tue, Jul 23, 2019 at 02:00:29PM -0400, Ladislav Lhotka wrote: > > This problem is actually not limited to YANG itself - people are reporting > problems with the transition to NMDA. > The YANG update from 1 to 1.1 mostly affected compiler writers - and to a much lesser extend module authors and module implementors. NMDA, affects client and server implementors much more directly, additional instrumentation on the server side needs to be written, application logic on the client side needs to be adjusted. NMDA is an evolution of architectural principles and this already indicates that there is a certain investment to make. If we discuss YANG next, we should compare it to the YANG 1 to 1.1 transition and not to the NMDA transition. When we started YANG 1.1 work, there were people who said that nobody would implement it. But then implementations were adopted relatively fast when we finalized YANG 1.1. While a collection of patches (updates) of YANG 1.1 may sound simpler, I am not sure this is really true. We will loose a common baseline and instead get complexity since we will get systems that all support different sets of patches (updates) of YANG 1.1. I believe we are all much better off if we have a common baseline language and tools that support the common baseline language. Again, if done right, YANG next will mostly affect compiler writers and tool makers and not so much module authors and implementors. /js -- Juergen Schoenwaelder Jacobs University Bremen gGmbH Phone: +49 421 200 3587 Campus Ring 1 | 28759 Bremen | Germany Fax: +49 421 200 3103 From nobody Tue Jul 23 11:35:49 2019 Return-Path: X-Original-To: netmod@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: netmod@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 821AE120804 for ; Tue, 23 Jul 2019 11:35:47 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.897 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.897 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, TVD_PH_BODY_ACCOUNTS_PRE=0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=yumaworks-com.20150623.gappssmtp.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id KHINUq5WDxLn for ; Tue, 23 Jul 2019 11:35:44 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail-lj1-x22f.google.com (mail-lj1-x22f.google.com [IPv6:2a00:1450:4864:20::22f]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 505741207F6 for ; Tue, 23 Jul 2019 11:35:44 -0700 (PDT) Received: by mail-lj1-x22f.google.com with SMTP id h10so42049781ljg.0 for ; Tue, 23 Jul 2019 11:35:44 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=yumaworks-com.20150623.gappssmtp.com; s=20150623; h=mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date:message-id:subject:to :cc; bh=UoCnStP8oxAAeVRmQvphQg8MpbJ7YCwoC1T7nsYnAv4=; b=MdaWSHeyK5wDE/v24TK5838mWLnsJjp6F6DawsKFQ9C4WfT8PZfqaIHkDetei6KBu2 2SYiX6Rme8919ZT4spEeetKFFVay88yDc3DmmKjrqRBpoaz+W8B7HMfvEM4Y0WBaZr30 MpGU1zlFNc/oGvZQt4Bd7MwlRzXSyFPmm2BsztcdbB5eg3jHw0sc1LNfOK5KRm3nhYUL /u4k4x6SmyDse0Yqm1tgZk1GqDyHCteSXMEFZUzHkPAUNTtvALOIywKsaVDPsQAUZFk5 uYcpxRXjuNMwXF9suu+NOpWgT3yVklD7m4vy2DWlaUdrcRDaywlqb+Ya6xysRTYG7W5V Cpzg== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date :message-id:subject:to:cc; bh=UoCnStP8oxAAeVRmQvphQg8MpbJ7YCwoC1T7nsYnAv4=; b=ko295+CbAMk79T3BofoQvi7ki1XLXmNZUnkoQVn3EPn/b2cKKo1cqQ41HO/VG4nqDN /o/fg4foWWHVcbDwCxzyGq8cKLANzyqQgRUPa98xVWOW9Vol3QWtSKkYpOqB0dhAdlGA jS1rc6NhKsfcttB9ZQe+jTgdotsONTzOGdL8KZikRPXclqF1jduXp0obvK2FHkWOck25 aOSgYnO5zBc4BVQVVmfp6aWkzVdzibol74pHt0mXbJCNkQ8Se7OuO+JtQvE9+hfwbwYH bgBz45dUZKwRtBpb22VQII3604KPbx7H2Jo7WtBVpJiBNd9/syDhfHfF+Pp35teDrTSI avIg== X-Gm-Message-State: APjAAAVzDrkePcY13VZEWKPsjpozUr8H+rnNnARcXBqHNMJn7hDfeXRc pt9H8tVmOidg9R9lar8KEWa2ucXoVglEY9lLoOM8dA== X-Google-Smtp-Source: APXvYqxf/3Sc5E6Y4tKYH2+8uW+aSrREOfoQLgY2vVazWtazGIYxX0kp84JaPjr2JS619nNRoehtQwnVGeZ5T+zeank= X-Received: by 2002:a2e:8583:: with SMTP id b3mr4284729lji.171.1563906942446; Tue, 23 Jul 2019 11:35:42 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 References: <02c4110737b4ff23f966e6153fad764f04436089.camel@nic.cz> In-Reply-To: <02c4110737b4ff23f966e6153fad764f04436089.camel@nic.cz> From: Andy Bierman Date: Tue, 23 Jul 2019 11:35:31 -0700 Message-ID: To: Ladislav Lhotka Cc: NETMOD WG Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="000000000000c44176058e5d7590" Archived-At: Subject: Re: [netmod] YANG next X-BeenThere: netmod@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: NETMOD WG list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 23 Jul 2019 18:35:48 -0000 --000000000000c44176058e5d7590 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" On Tue, Jul 23, 2019 at 11:00 AM Ladislav Lhotka wrote: > On Tue, 2019-07-23 at 09:22 -0700, Andy Bierman wrote: > > > > > > On Tue, Jul 23, 2019 at 9:03 AM Ladislav Lhotka wrote: > > > Hi, > > > > > > this morning I attended the side meeting "Next Step of IETF YANG". I > was > > > somewhat misled into thinking that it would be about future evolution > of > > > YANG > > > the language, which was not the case at all. However, my personal > conclusion > > > from the meeting is that it would be a total disaster to throw in a new > > > version > > > of YANG within the next few years or so. > > > > > > > > > I hope a summary of the meeting is posted to the WG mailing list. > > I think so, minutes were taken. > > > > > > The operators and equipment vendors are busy putting together YANG > modules > > > and > > > tools, filling the gaps, coping with NMDA, schema mount, IETF versus > > > OpenConfig > > > etc. A new YANG version (and modules written in it) would IMO be > extremely > > > counter-productive at this rather turbulent stage. > > > > > > So, if we want to continue the yang-next discussion, I think we first > have > > > to > > > figure out how to evolve YANG without making waves in the current YANG > pond > > > and > > > let the operators and vendors do their work, without which YANG can > never > > > succeed. > > > > > > > IMO a new version of YANG would not be disruptive (if done right). > > The issue is whether it is cleaner in the long-run to introduce NBC > changes > > properly > > with a new version number, or not so properly, through YANG extensions. > > I don't see much difference provided that the extensions will be properly > signalled. But we have to take into account that some tools that people > use may > not be updated for quite some time, and if they cannot properly work with > modules written for the new version (or extensions), then things will > break. > > So you want to work on YANG 1.2, but just the parts you want to change? ;-) There is no such thing as a critical extension in YANG 1.1. IMO it would be a bad idea to develop standard modules that relied on tool support of any extension. A tool is allowed to skip any extension when parsing a module. This cannot be changed in YANG 1.1. > This problem is actually not limited to YANG itself - people are reporting > problems with the transition to NMDA. > > > > > E.g -- adding a leaf to the datastore that says "I don't follow the > rules in > > 7950" > > is still breaking the YANG 1.1 contract. Using extensions instead of > real > > statements > > is problematic because they are optional to implement (as you point out > all > > the time). > > Yes, hence critical extensions. However, the problem is still the same - > these > changes require updated tools, and not all tools will be updated > immediately. I > think that we should make sure that (at least in the IETF) all modules > will be > compatible with tools supporting YANG 1.1, say for the next 5 years. > > I am OK with the current WG priorities such as versioning. Those YANG extensions simply clarify YANG 1.1 so no rules are broken and no YANG 1.1 functionality is removed if a tool ignores the extensions. Also OK with not working on YANG 1.2 or critical extensions. There are no must-have features at this time. Lada > > Andy > > > > Seems like the WG is going the YANG extension route, which has its own > set of > > problems > > compared to a new YANG language version. > > > > > > > Lada > > > > Andy > > > -- > Ladislav Lhotka > Head, CZ.NIC Labs > PGP Key ID: 0xB8F92B08A9F76C67 > > --000000000000c44176058e5d7590 Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable


=
On Tue, Jul 23, 2019 at 11:00 AM Ladi= slav Lhotka <lhotka@nic.cz> wrot= e:
On Tue, 2019-= 07-23 at 09:22 -0700, Andy Bierman wrote:
>
>
> On Tue, Jul 23, 2019 at 9:03 AM Ladislav Lhotka <lhotka@nic.cz> wrote:
> > Hi,
> >
> > this morning I attended the side meeting "Next Step of IETF = YANG". I was
> > somewhat misled into thinking that it would be about future evolu= tion of
> > YANG
> > the language, which was not the case at all. However, my personal= conclusion
> > from the meeting is that it would be a total disaster to throw in= a new
> > version
> > of YANG within the next few years or so.
> >
>
>
> I hope a summary of the meeting is posted to the WG mailing list.

I think so, minutes were taken.

>=C2=A0
> > The operators and equipment vendors are busy putting together YAN= G modules
> > and
> > tools, filling the gaps, coping with NMDA, schema mount, IETF ver= sus
> > OpenConfig
> > etc. A new YANG version (and modules written in it) would IMO be = extremely
> > counter-productive at this rather turbulent stage.
> >
> > So, if we want to continue the yang-next discussion, I think we f= irst have
> > to
> > figure out how to evolve YANG without making waves in the current= YANG pond
> > and
> > let the operators and vendors do their work, without which YANG c= an never
> > succeed.
> >
>
> IMO a new version of YANG would not be disruptive (if done right).
> The issue is whether it is cleaner in the long-run to introduce NBC ch= anges
> properly
> with a new version number, or not so properly, through YANG extensions= .

I don't see much difference provided that the extensions will be proper= ly
signalled. But we have to take into account that some tools that people use= may
not be updated for quite some time, and if they cannot properly work with modules written for the new version (or extensions), then things will break= .


So you want to work on YANG 1.2, but j= ust the parts you want to change? ;-)
There is no such thing as a= critical extension in YANG 1.1.
IMO it would be a bad idea to de= velop standard modules that relied on tool support of
any extensi= on. A tool is allowed to skip any extension when parsing a module.
This cannot be changed in YANG 1.1.
=C2=A0
This problem is actually not limited to YANG itself - people are reporting<= br> problems with the transition to NMDA.

>
> E.g -- adding a leaf to the datastore that says "I don't foll= ow the rules in
> 7950"
> is still breaking the YANG 1.1 contract.=C2=A0 Using extensions instea= d of real
> statements
> is problematic because they are optional to implement (as you point ou= t all
> the time).

Yes, hence critical extensions. However, the problem is still the same - th= ese
changes require updated tools, and not all tools will be updated immediatel= y. I
think that we should make sure that (at least in the IETF) all modules will= be
compatible with tools supporting YANG 1.1, say for the next 5 years.


I am OK with the current WG priorities= such as versioning.
Those YANG extensions simply clarify YANG 1.= 1 so no rules are broken
and no YANG 1.1 functionality is removed= if a tool ignores the extensions.
Also OK with not working on YA= NG 1.2 or critical extensions.
There are no must-have feature= s at this time.

Lada


Andy
=C2=A0
>
> Seems like the WG is going the YANG extension route, which has its own= set of
> problems
> compared to a new YANG language version.
>
>
> > Lada
>
> Andy
>=C2=A0
--
Ladislav Lhotka
Head, CZ.NIC Labs
PGP Key ID: 0xB8F92B08A9F76C67

--000000000000c44176058e5d7590-- From nobody Tue Jul 23 14:43:50 2019 Return-Path: X-Original-To: netmod@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: netmod@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id DF29A1200FD for ; Tue, 23 Jul 2019 14:43:48 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -6.997 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-6.997 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_HI=-5, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_NONE=0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (1024-bit key) header.d=nic.cz Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 71rq3wtYWLPL for ; Tue, 23 Jul 2019 14:43:46 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail.nic.cz (mail.nic.cz [IPv6:2001:1488:800:400::400]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 119FA120110 for ; Tue, 23 Jul 2019 14:43:46 -0700 (PDT) Received: from birdie (unknown [IPv6:2001:67c:1232:144:1a4f:a84b:2bfd:c611]) by mail.nic.cz (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 8DD2B140B13; Tue, 23 Jul 2019 23:43:43 +0200 (CEST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/simple; d=nic.cz; s=default; t=1563918224; bh=H0oOBFqGKGZSlSkllrIlhTe9xaSmSi2PPy2iad221MI=; h=From:To:Date; b=TtQBNcvRk+F/GWRBLYS5E/hefbBWbAPShpzqK3rFmAutWOWOq+rXoQY6J9VELUJOJ w5/HOhRfQbyqgASYVIKXFvKse51pLaN8Uj2Z2e949QH5xpjfVh4gQIFHto1gSBFTV2 XWum23A2TjeI8nP6ptdv1Z8rMPaE6hnSExFgr3Dg= Message-ID: From: Ladislav Lhotka To: Andy Bierman Cc: NETMOD WG Date: Tue, 23 Jul 2019 17:43:41 -0400 In-Reply-To: References: <02c4110737b4ff23f966e6153fad764f04436089.camel@nic.cz> Organization: CZ.NIC Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" User-Agent: Evolution 3.32.4 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Virus-Scanned: clamav-milter 0.100.3 at mail.nic.cz X-Virus-Status: Clean Archived-At: Subject: Re: [netmod] YANG next X-BeenThere: netmod@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: NETMOD WG list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 23 Jul 2019 21:43:49 -0000 On Tue, 2019-07-23 at 11:35 -0700, Andy Bierman wrote: > > > On Tue, Jul 23, 2019 at 11:00 AM Ladislav Lhotka wrote: > > On Tue, 2019-07-23 at 09:22 -0700, Andy Bierman wrote: > > > > > > > > > On Tue, Jul 23, 2019 at 9:03 AM Ladislav Lhotka wrote: > > > > Hi, > > > > > > > > this morning I attended the side meeting "Next Step of IETF YANG". I was > > > > somewhat misled into thinking that it would be about future evolution of > > > > YANG > > > > the language, which was not the case at all. However, my personal > > conclusion > > > > from the meeting is that it would be a total disaster to throw in a new > > > > version > > > > of YANG within the next few years or so. > > > > > > > > > > > > > I hope a summary of the meeting is posted to the WG mailing list. > > > > I think so, minutes were taken. > > > > > > > > > The operators and equipment vendors are busy putting together YANG > > modules > > > > and > > > > tools, filling the gaps, coping with NMDA, schema mount, IETF versus > > > > OpenConfig > > > > etc. A new YANG version (and modules written in it) would IMO be > > extremely > > > > counter-productive at this rather turbulent stage. > > > > > > > > So, if we want to continue the yang-next discussion, I think we first > > have > > > > to > > > > figure out how to evolve YANG without making waves in the current YANG > > pond > > > > and > > > > let the operators and vendors do their work, without which YANG can > > never > > > > succeed. > > > > > > > > > > IMO a new version of YANG would not be disruptive (if done right). > > > The issue is whether it is cleaner in the long-run to introduce NBC > > changes > > > properly > > > with a new version number, or not so properly, through YANG extensions. > > > > I don't see much difference provided that the extensions will be properly > > signalled. But we have to take into account that some tools that people use > > may > > not be updated for quite some time, and if they cannot properly work with > > modules written for the new version (or extensions), then things will break. > > > > So you want to work on YANG 1.2, but just the parts you want to change? ;-) I am actually fine with not doing any changes to YANG 1.1 at all, except perhaps bug fixes. This doesn't necessarily mean closing the NETMOD WG, it would IMO be immensely useful to rewrite the language specification and remove NETCONF- and XML-specific part. > There is no such thing as a critical extension in YANG 1.1. One alternative to doing nothing is to introduce critical extensions but temporarily forbid their use in IETF modules (so that existing tools continue to work). This would allow for developing and testing new YANG features without causing troubles to current YANG users. Specific areas and communities may decide to treat some crictical extensions as required and use tools that support them. > IMO it would be a bad idea to develop standard modules that relied on tool > support of > any extension. A tool is allowed to skip any extension when parsing a module. > This cannot be changed in YANG 1.1. > > > This problem is actually not limited to YANG itself - people are reporting > > problems with the transition to NMDA. > > > > > > > > E.g -- adding a leaf to the datastore that says "I don't follow the rules > > in > > > 7950" > > > is still breaking the YANG 1.1 contract. Using extensions instead of real > > > statements > > > is problematic because they are optional to implement (as you point out > > all > > > the time). > > > > Yes, hence critical extensions. However, the problem is still the same - > > these > > changes require updated tools, and not all tools will be updated > > immediately. I > > think that we should make sure that (at least in the IETF) all modules will > > be > > compatible with tools supporting YANG 1.1, say for the next 5 years. > > > > I am OK with the current WG priorities such as versioning. Yes, work on versioning and packages should continue. > Those YANG extensions simply clarify YANG 1.1 so no rules are broken > and no YANG 1.1 functionality is removed if a tool ignores the extensions. > Also OK with not working on YANG 1.2 or critical extensions. > There are no must-have features at this time. I agree. Lada > > > Lada > > > > Andy > > > > > > > Seems like the WG is going the YANG extension route, which has its own set > > of > > > problems > > > compared to a new YANG language version. > > > > > > > > > > Lada > > > > > > Andy > > > -- Ladislav Lhotka Head, CZ.NIC Labs PGP Key ID: 0xB8F92B08A9F76C67 From nobody Tue Jul 23 14:47:12 2019 Return-Path: X-Original-To: netmod@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: netmod@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 938ED1202E2 for ; Tue, 23 Jul 2019 14:47:10 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -14.499 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-14.499 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_HI=-5, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001, USER_IN_DEF_DKIM_WL=-7.5] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (1024-bit key) header.d=cisco.com header.b=dTxPqHBw; 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Tue, 23 Jul 2019 21:47:04 +0000 From: "Rob Wilton (rwilton)" To: =?iso-8859-1?Q?Bal=E1zs_Lengyel?= , "'netmod@ietf.org'" Thread-Topic: Instance-data-format -additional simplified format to define content schema Thread-Index: AdVAya70t7DO6UXsR/K+POkwpw7dKAA1fHnQ Date: Tue, 23 Jul 2019 21:47:04 +0000 Message-ID: References: In-Reply-To: Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: authentication-results: spf=none (sender IP is ) smtp.mailfrom=rwilton@cisco.com; x-originating-ip: [2001:420:c0c8:1002::367] x-ms-publictraffictype: Email x-ms-office365-filtering-correlation-id: 15534272-4fb6-454b-2f63-08d70fb74d24 x-microsoft-antispam: BCL:0; PCL:0; RULEID:(2390118)(7020095)(4652040)(8989299)(4534185)(4627221)(201703031133081)(201702281549075)(8990200)(5600148)(711020)(4605104)(1401327)(2017052603328)(7193020); SRVR:BYAPR11MB2534; x-ms-traffictypediagnostic: BYAPR11MB2534: x-ms-exchange-purlcount: 2 x-microsoft-antispam-prvs: x-ms-oob-tlc-oobclassifiers: OLM:9508; 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charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hi Balazs, Yes, I think this looks good to me. Thanks, Rob From: netmod On Behalf Of Bal=E1zs Lengyel Sent: 22 July 2019 16:13 To: 'netmod@ietf.org' Subject: [netmod] Instance-data-format -additional simplified format to def= ine content schema Hello, At the IETF 105 Netmod meeting it was stated that the flexible solution to = define the context schema inline (requested earlier on the mailing list) is= quite complex, so a fourth simpler method to define content schema inline = is needed. The fourth method would add one more choice to "choice content-schema-spec = " case simplified-inline { leaf-list module { type string { pattern '.+@\d{4}-\d{2}-\d{2}\.yang'; } description "The list of content defining YANG modules including the revision date for each. Usage of this leaf-list implies the modules are used without any deviations and with all features supported."; } } An example instant data example could be: read-only-acm-rules ietf-yang-library@2019-01-04.yang> ietf-netconf-acm@2012-02-22.yang> 1776-07-04 Initial version Access control rules for a read-only role. ... Do you like it ? Adding this case are you OK with the content-schema-spec d= efinition? Regards Balazs --_000_BYAPR11MB2631083F050EC52BC32D7270B5C70BYAPR11MB2631namp_ Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

Hi Balazs= ,

&nbs= p;

Yes, I th= ink this looks good to me.

&nbs= p;

Thanks, Rob

&nbs= p;

&nbs= p;

From: netmod <netmod-bounces@ietf.org&g= t; On Behalf Of Bal=E1zs Lengyel
Sent: 22 July 2019 16:13
To: 'netmod@ietf.org' <netmod@ietf.org>
Subject: [netmod] Instance-data-format -additional simplified format= to define content schema

 

He= llo,

At= the IETF 105 Netmod meeting it was stated that the flexible solution to de= fine the context schema inline (requested earlier on the mailing list) is q= uite complex, so a fourth simpler method to define content schema inline is needed.

Th= e fourth method would add one more choice to “choice content-schema-sp= ec   “

 

case simplifie= d-inline {

  leaf-li= st module  {

  &n= bsp; type string {

  &n= bsp;    pattern '.+@\d{4}-\d{2}-\d{2}\.yang';=

  &n= bsp;  }

  &n= bsp;  description “The list of content defining YANG

  &n= bsp;    modules including the revision date for each.

  &n= bsp;    Usage of this leaf-list implies the modules are

  &n= bsp;    used without any deviations and with all featur= es

  &n= bsp;    supported.”;

  }<= /o:p>

}

 

An= example instant data example could be:

<instance-d= ata-set xmlns=3D"urn:...:ietf-yang-instance-data"><= /span>

  <nam= e>read-only-acm-rules</name>

  <mod= ule>ietf-= yang-library@2019-01-04.yang</module>

  <module>=
;ietf-netconf=
-acm@2012-02-22.yang</module>
  <revision&=
gt;
    &=
lt;date>1776-07-04</date>
    &=
lt;description>Initial version</description>

  </revision=
>


  <descripti=
on>Access control rules for a read-only role.</description>


  <content-d=
ata>...


 


Do=
 you like it ? Adding this case are you OK with the content-schema-spec def=
inition?


Re=
gards Balazs
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Tue, 23 Jul 2019 21:50:54 +0000 From: "Rob Wilton (rwilton)" To: Ladislav Lhotka , NETMOD WG Thread-Topic: [netmod] YANG next Thread-Index: AQHVQXBQtjURL141VkWQZDrJ7b+rTKbYva+w Date: Tue, 23 Jul 2019 21:50:54 +0000 Message-ID: References: In-Reply-To: Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: authentication-results: spf=none (sender IP is ) smtp.mailfrom=rwilton@cisco.com; x-originating-ip: [2001:420:c0c8:1002::367] x-ms-publictraffictype: Email x-ms-office365-filtering-correlation-id: 085ba61a-f9c3-4da6-23ad-08d70fb7d65b x-microsoft-antispam: BCL:0; PCL:0; RULEID:(2390118)(7020095)(4652040)(8989299)(4534185)(4627221)(201703031133081)(201702281549075)(8990200)(5600148)(711020)(4605104)(1401327)(2017052603328)(7193020); SRVR:BYAPR11MB2534; x-ms-traffictypediagnostic: BYAPR11MB2534: x-ms-exchange-purlcount: 1 x-microsoft-antispam-prvs: x-ms-oob-tlc-oobclassifiers: OLM:10000; x-forefront-prvs: 0107098B6C x-forefront-antispam-report: SFV:NSPM; SFS:(10009020)(4636009)(136003)(376002)(366004)(396003)(346002)(39860400002)(189003)(51444003)(199004)(13464003)(86362001)(55016002)(6436002)(2906002)(81166006)(9686003)(6246003)(33656002)(6306002)(68736007)(6116002)(81156014)(53936002)(8936002)(71200400001)(71190400001)(5660300002)(14454004)(229853002)(7696005)(76116006)(110136005)(478600001)(446003)(64756008)(66556008)(66476007)(316002)(76176011)(966005)(7736002)(256004)(25786009)(476003)(66946007)(11346002)(52536014)(486006)(102836004)(46003)(305945005)(8676002)(74316002)(6506007)(53546011)(99286004)(66446008)(186003); DIR:OUT; SFP:1101; SCL:1; SRVR:BYAPR11MB2534; H:BYAPR11MB2631.namprd11.prod.outlook.com; FPR:; SPF:None; LANG:en; PTR:InfoNoRecords; MX:1; A:1; received-spf: None (protection.outlook.com: cisco.com does not designate permitted sender hosts) x-ms-exchange-senderadcheck: 1 x-microsoft-antispam-message-info: kkPBT3tzsWq5vWInR5xH2V5O99jBc+JJLPfmrSw2PfT4CyOsPGZSZE0cD42TASkMD7C0VA/Qd5ckeODV7uiOLiFAGhib7wMaAD2Fb00PYUMywLrR2XQIsB3G0ue65PiG7YNfgsiAV6RlxZeE1wvMCocbXs5Y1QEUVY/ga35e+x6Zd/7C/FWY3e+N8qNubcjjf13QIxs9meeWiyUmJ7aMIMEo6rVseAFFQd6zXX2ZXOu+n84SCssSY90MrwzkNjBpYvjXrrILm1KTdRHnLmS7KnKVQpdjLKZzYk/8/2Y9oPBQ8wqv+Mo95EnC51/vGEx0R1zDtlZy3kVCQvfADTzVIs1LX9xETVNgmXrWdRUAaHA5nkhvYA7VbZ1fyFpKQEctQbyb5XrA5/nKgF1CDeiJCHuneLekY9TpUGHmhPOYjgM= Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable MIME-Version: 1.0 X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-Network-Message-Id: 085ba61a-f9c3-4da6-23ad-08d70fb7d65b X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-originalarrivaltime: 23 Jul 2019 21:50:54.4334 (UTC) X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-fromentityheader: Hosted X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-id: 5ae1af62-9505-4097-a69a-c1553ef7840e X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-mailboxtype: HOSTED X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-userprincipalname: rwilton@cisco.com X-MS-Exchange-Transport-CrossTenantHeadersStamped: BYAPR11MB2534 X-OriginatorOrg: cisco.com X-Outbound-SMTP-Client: 173.37.102.16, xch-rcd-006.cisco.com X-Outbound-Node: rcdn-core-10.cisco.com Archived-At: Subject: Re: [netmod] YANG next X-BeenThere: netmod@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: NETMOD WG list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 23 Jul 2019 21:51:12 -0000 Hi Lada, I still think that it makes sense to do YANG Next, on the assumption that i= t will take a couple of years to work out, maybe longer if the work doesn't= properly get started until the YANG versioning work has progressed further= . When I look at the YANG Next issue list, I think that there are quite a lot= of things on that list (some of which are quite small) that would be good = to do, and will help modelling efforts. Thanks, Rob -----Original Message----- From: netmod On Behalf Of Ladislav Lhotka Sent: 23 July 2019 12:03 To: NETMOD WG Subject: [netmod] YANG next Hi, this morning I attended the side meeting "Next Step of IETF YANG". I was so= mewhat misled into thinking that it would be about future evolution of YANG= the language, which was not the case at all. However, my personal conclusi= on from the meeting is that it would be a total disaster to throw in a new = version of YANG within the next few years or so. The operators and equipment vendors are busy putting together YANG modules = and tools, filling the gaps, coping with NMDA, schema mount, IETF versus Op= enConfig etc. A new YANG version (and modules written in it) would IMO be e= xtremely counter-productive at this rather turbulent stage. So, if we want to continue the yang-next discussion, I think we first have = to figure out how to evolve YANG without making waves in the current YANG p= ond and let the operators and vendors do their work, without which YANG can= never succeed. Lada -- Ladislav Lhotka Head, CZ.NIC Labs PGP Key ID: 0xB8F92B08A9F76C67 _______________________________________________ netmod mailing list netmod@ietf.org https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/netmod From nobody Tue Jul 23 14:55:36 2019 Return-Path: X-Original-To: netmod@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: netmod@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id A213212098B for ; Tue, 23 Jul 2019 14:55:27 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.001 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.001 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIMWL_WL_HIGH=-0.001, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (1024-bit key) header.d=ericsson.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 1sTywBXVQ3W1 for ; 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Tue, 23 Jul 2019 21:55:21 +0000 Received: from VI1PR0701MB2286.eurprd07.prod.outlook.com ([fe80::5556:4c20:cd8d:686a]) by VI1PR0701MB2286.eurprd07.prod.outlook.com ([fe80::5556:4c20:cd8d:686a%11]) with mapi id 15.20.2115.005; Tue, 23 Jul 2019 21:55:21 +0000 From: =?iso-8859-1?Q?Bal=E1zs_Lengyel?= To: "Rob Wilton (rwilton)" , Ladislav Lhotka , NETMOD WG Thread-Topic: [netmod] YANG next Thread-Index: AQHVQXA4NNSdyaU74E+3vDu/k+DKb6bYvoYAgAABJXA= Date: Tue, 23 Jul 2019 21:55:21 +0000 Message-ID: References: In-Reply-To: Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: yes X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: authentication-results: spf=none (sender IP is ) smtp.mailfrom=balazs.lengyel@ericsson.com; x-originating-ip: [31.133.153.243] x-ms-publictraffictype: Email x-ms-office365-filtering-correlation-id: 2520a778-ce0c-46e0-5755-08d70fb875a3 x-microsoft-antispam: BCL:0; PCL:0; RULEID:(2390118)(7020095)(4652040)(8989299)(4534185)(4627221)(201703031133081)(201702281549075)(8990200)(5600148)(711020)(4605104)(1401327)(2017052603328)(49563074)(7193020); 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protocol="application/x-pkcs7-signature"; micalg=SHA1; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_03F0_01D5417F.CAADFDB0" MIME-Version: 1.0 X-OriginatorOrg: ericsson.com X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-Network-Message-Id: 2520a778-ce0c-46e0-5755-08d70fb875a3 X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-originalarrivaltime: 23 Jul 2019 21:55:21.6673 (UTC) X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-fromentityheader: Hosted X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-id: 92e84ceb-fbfd-47ab-be52-080c6b87953f X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-mailboxtype: HOSTED X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-userprincipalname: balazs.lengyel@ericsson.com X-MS-Exchange-Transport-CrossTenantHeadersStamped: VI1PR0701MB2800 Archived-At: Subject: Re: [netmod] YANG next X-BeenThere: netmod@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: NETMOD WG list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 23 Jul 2019 21:55:36 -0000 ------=_NextPart_000_03F0_01D5417F.CAADFDB0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable +1 Balazs -----Original Message----- From: netmod On Behalf Of Rob Wilton (rwilton) Sent: 2019. j=FAlius 23., kedd 17:51 To: Ladislav Lhotka ; NETMOD WG Subject: Re: [netmod] YANG next Hi Lada, I still think that it makes sense to do YANG Next, on the assumption = that it will take a couple of years to work out, maybe longer if the work = doesn't properly get started until the YANG versioning work has progressed = further. When I look at the YANG Next issue list, I think that there are quite a = lot of things on that list (some of which are quite small) that would be = good to do, and will help modelling efforts. Thanks, Rob -----Original Message----- From: netmod On Behalf Of Ladislav Lhotka Sent: 23 July 2019 12:03 To: NETMOD WG Subject: [netmod] YANG next Hi, this morning I attended the side meeting "Next Step of IETF YANG". I was somewhat misled into thinking that it would be about future evolution of YANG the language, which was not the case at all. However, my personal conclusion from the meeting is that it would be a total disaster to = throw in a new version of YANG within the next few years or so. The operators and equipment vendors are busy putting together YANG = modules and tools, filling the gaps, coping with NMDA, schema mount, IETF versus OpenConfig etc. A new YANG version (and modules written in it) would IMO = be extremely counter-productive at this rather turbulent stage. So, if we want to continue the yang-next discussion, I think we first = have to figure out how to evolve YANG without making waves in the current = YANG pond and let the operators and vendors do their work, without which YANG = can never succeed. Lada -- Ladislav Lhotka Head, CZ.NIC Labs PGP Key ID: 0xB8F92B08A9F76C67 _______________________________________________ netmod mailing list netmod@ietf.org https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/netmod _______________________________________________ netmod mailing list netmod@ietf.org https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/netmod ------=_NextPart_000_03F0_01D5417F.CAADFDB0 Content-Type: application/pkcs7-signature; name="smime.p7s" Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 Content-Disposition: attachment; filename="smime.p7s" MIAGCSqGSIb3DQEHAqCAMIACAQExCzAJBgUrDgMCGgUAMIAGCSqGSIb3DQEHAQAAoIIVbjCCAyAw ggIIoAMCAQICAR0wDQYJKoZIhvcNAQEFBQAwOTELMAkGA1UEBhMCRkkxDzANBgNVBAoTBlNvbmVy YTEZMBcGA1UEAxMQU29uZXJhIENsYXNzMiBDQTAeFw0wMTA0MDYwNzI5NDBaFw0yMTA0MDYwNzI5 NDBaMDkxCzAJBgNVBAYTAkZJMQ8wDQYDVQQKEwZTb25lcmExGTAXBgNVBAMTEFNvbmVyYSBDbGFz czIgQ0EwggEiMA0GCSqGSIb3DQEBAQUAA4IBDwAwggEKAoIBAQCQF0o1ncrwDZbHRPoWN/xIvb1/ gC01O+FvqGepvwMcTYxvMkfVQWikEwTBNQyahEP8XB3/ibPoFxjNkV/7iePqv05dfBsm03V57eaE 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Jul 2019 22:01:46 +0000 From: "Rob Wilton (rwilton)" To: =?utf-8?B?QmFsw6F6cyBMZW5neWVs?= , "Andy Bierman" , Juergen Schoenwaelder , "netmod@ietf.org" Thread-Topic: [netmod] Instance-data-format - shall we define etag and last-modified annotation ? 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Jul 2019 22:23:20 +0000 From: "Rob Wilton (rwilton)" To: "Joe Clarke (jclarke)" CC: =?utf-8?B?QmFsw6F6cyBMZW5neWVs?= , "Andy Bierman" , Juergen Schoenwaelder , "netmod@ietf.org" Thread-Topic: [netmod] Instance-data-format - shall we define etag and last-modified annotation ? 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X-BeenThere: netmod@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: NETMOD WG list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 24 Jul 2019 02:57:56 -0000 ------=_NextPart_000_0434_01D541AA.08E29350 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_001_0435_01D541AA.08E29350" ------=_NextPart_001_0435_01D541AA.08E29350 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable The instance-data-set=E2=80=99s timestamp is about the time the config = dump is taken. If the last modification happened 7 days before the dump, then the = last-modified metadata and the instance-data-set=E2=80=99s timestamp = will have a week difference. Also the last-modified metadata can be different for different parts of = the configuration. Regards Balazs =20 From: Joe Clarke (jclarke) =20 Sent: 2019. j=C3=BAlius 23., kedd 18:06 To: Rob Wilton (rwilton) Cc: Bal=C3=A1zs Lengyel ; Andy Bierman = ; Juergen Schoenwaelder = ; netmod@ietf.org Subject: Re: [netmod] Instance-data-format - shall we define etag and = last-modified annotation ? =20 =20 On Jul 23, 2019, at 18:01, Rob Wilton (rwilton) > wrote: =20 If you want to dump the configuration on the device to a file for some = offline analysis, then it might be useful if it is possible for that = file to have the timestamps of when the configuration changed annotated = into the file. =20 Isn=E2=80=99t that the purpose of the =E2=80=9Ctimestamp" metadata leaf = in instance-data? That is the timestamp of the ID set itself. =20 Joe =20 I don=E2=80=99t think that this is critical, but I can see that it might = be useful. =20 Thanks, Rob =20 =20 From: netmod < netmod-bounces@ietf.org> = On Behalf Of Bal=C3=A1zs Lengyel Sent: 23 July 2019 13:09 To: Andy Bierman < andy@yumaworks.com>; = Juergen Schoenwaelder < = j.schoenwaelder@jacobs-university.de>; = netmod@ietf.org Subject: Re: [netmod] Instance-data-format - shall we define etag and = last-modified annotation ? =20 Hello, As Jurgen, Andy, Lada and Joe is opposed to defining the annotations in = the instance model draft, and I don=E2=80=99t see it as crucial, I will = take it out. IMHO it is a useful bit of functionality for configuration data based = use-cases, and I very much fear it will not happen at all now; unless = people speak up it is removed. Regards Balazs =20 From: Andy Bierman < andy@yumaworks.com>=20 Sent: 2019. j=C3=BAlius 23., kedd 11:39 To: Juergen Schoenwaelder < = = j.schoenwaelder@jacobs-university.de>; Bal=C3=A1zs Lengyel < = balazs.lengyel@ericsson.com>; = netmod@ietf.org Subject: Re: [netmod] Instance-data-format - shall we define etag and = last-modified annotation ? =20 =20 =20 On Tue, Jul 23, 2019 at 7:24 AM Juergen Schoenwaelder < = = j.schoenwaelder@jacobs-university.de> wrote: Bal=C3=A1zs, I am not sure these belongs to the data types collection. If these annotations are a per datastore properties or per configuration datastore properties (I am not sure these properties make a lot of sense for dynamically changing data in , or these properties only make sense for config true nodes, more discussion needed I guess), then the logical place would be to define them would be where the datastores are defined. I understand the timing concern but my preference is to workout what these annotations really are in an NMDA world and in a second step to figure out a way to define them in a reasonable amount of time. =20 This work needs a lot more thought because this WG is sort of abusing = these fields, intended for HTTP caching. The values are associated with a = representation of a response to a request for some portion of the datastore contents. E.g., a = representation in XML must be a different ETag than a JSON representation (of the exact same datastore contents). =20 I suggest new meta-data be defined that has semantics specific to = datastore contents, not the HTTP representation of the response. =20 IMO this meta-data is not really needed inside an instance file, but if = included, then the values should be associated with the representation (the instance file) and not = the datastores. =20 =20 /js =20 =20 Andy =20 On Tue, Jul 23, 2019 at 02:11:23PM +0000, Bal=C3=A1zs Lengyel wrote: > Hello J=C3=BCrgen, > Could the etag and last-modified annotations be moved to 6991bis? > Regards Balazs >=20 > -----Original Message----- > From: Juergen Schoenwaelder < = = j.schoenwaelder@jacobs-university.de>=20 > Sent: 2019. j=C3=BAlius 22., h=C3=A9tf=C5=91 16:15 > To: Bal=C3=A1zs Lengyel < = balazs.lengyel@ericsson.com> > Cc: netmod@ietf.org > Subject: Re: [netmod] Instance-data-format - shall we define etag and > last-modified annotation ? >=20 > On Mon, Jul 22, 2019 at 07:23:59PM +0000, Bal=C3=A1zs Lengyel wrote: > > Hello, > >=20 > > Restconf (rfc8040) defined to useful bits of metadata about a YANG=20 > > defined > > datastore: entity-tag and the last-modified timestamp. > >=20 > > These can be very useful in instance data sets, however Restconf=20 > > defines an encoding for these (as part of the http headers) that can = > > not be used in instance-data-sets. >=20 > This may actually point out a flaw or omission of RFC 8527. RFC 8040 = defines > an entity-tag for its "unified" datastore and it says "if the RESTCONF > server is co-located with a NETCONF server, then this entity-tag MUST = be for > the "running" datastore". So it is a bit unclear what happens with = other > NMDA datastores and I did not quickly find something in RFC 8527. (For > example, can have a distinct etag for ? > =20 > > draft-ietf-netmod-yang-instance-file-format-03#section-7.2 > > > < = = https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-netmod-yang-instance-file-format-0= 3# > > section-7.2> defines metadata annotations for these two, that = can be > > used in instance data > >=20 > > md:annotation entity-tag { > > type string; > > description "Used to encode the entity-tag ."; > > } > > md:annotation last-modified { > > type yang:date-and-time; > > description "Contains the date and time when the annotated > > instance was last modified (or created)."; > > } > >=20 > > In order to be able to include this data, the annotations need to be = > > defined in some YANG module. > >=20 > > The question has been raised whether > >=20 > > 1. these annotations should be defined in the = ietf-yang-instance-data > > module as it needs them, as that is open or > > 2. the annotations should be defined in another draft in a separate > > YANG module as any other annotation > >=20 > > The first option is better because the instance-data needs these=20 > > annotations, and at this point we see no other user for the=20 > > annotation, and in this case the ongoing instance data draft will=20 > > define it > >=20 > > The second option is better because, if later there are other users=20 > > for these annotations, it might be strange to reference the=20 > > ietf-yang-instance-data module. Also why provide special treatment = to=20 > > these > > 2 annotations? > >=20 > > The authors support option 1 and don't have the time to start a new=20 > > draft to define these annotations. > >=20 > > On IETF105 in the room there was more support for option 1.=20 > >=20 > > Please indicate if you have an opinion about the choice of 1 or 2 >=20 > Version -03 only defines these annotations but does not do anything = specific > with these definitions. So if the annotations are defined elsewhere, = the ID > is as complete as before. If entity-tag and last-modified are actually = seen > as datastore properties, it would be nice to have them defined in the = NMDA > documents (and it seems we overlooked this when we did the NMDA work). >=20 > I think this needs a bit of discussion whether these are actually seen = as > datastore properties. But in this case, I would lean towards option 2. >=20 > /js >=20 > --=20 > Juergen Schoenwaelder Jacobs University Bremen gGmbH > Phone: +49 421 200 3587 Campus Ring 1 | 28759 Bremen | Germany > Fax: +49 421 200 3103 < = https://www.jacobs-university.de/> --=20 Juergen Schoenwaelder Jacobs University Bremen gGmbH Phone: +49 421 200 3587 Campus Ring 1 | 28759 Bremen | Germany Fax: +49 421 200 3103 < = https://www.jacobs-university.de/> _______________________________________________ netmod mailing list netmod@ietf.org = https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/netmod _______________________________________________ netmod mailing list netmod@ietf.org = https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/netmod =20 ------=_NextPart_001_0435_01D541AA.08E29350 Content-Type: text/html; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

The = instance-data-set=E2=80=99s timestamp is about the time the config dump = is taken.

If the last modification = happened 7 days before the dump, then the last-modified metadata and the = instance-data-set=E2=80=99s timestamp will have a week = difference.

Also the last-modified = metadata can be different for different parts of the = configuration.

Regards = Balazs

 

From: Joe Clarke (jclarke) = <jclarke@cisco.com>
Sent: 2019. j=C3=BAlius 23., kedd = 18:06
To: Rob Wilton (rwilton) = <rwilton@cisco.com>
Cc: Bal=C3=A1zs Lengyel = <balazs.lengyel@ericsson.com>; Andy Bierman = <andy@yumaworks.com>; Juergen Schoenwaelder = <j.schoenwaelder@jacobs-university.de>; = netmod@ietf.org
Subject: Re: [netmod] Instance-data-format - = shall we define etag and last-modified annotation = ?

 

 



On Jul 23, 2019, at 18:01, Rob Wilton (rwilton) <rwilton@cisco.com> = wrote:

 

If = you want to dump the configuration on the device to a file for some = offline analysis, then it might be useful if it is possible for that = file to have the timestamps of when the configuration changed annotated = into the file.

 

Isn=E2=80=99t that the purpose of the = =E2=80=9Ctimestamp" metadata leaf in instance-data?  That is = the timestamp of the ID set itself.

 

Joe



 

I = don=E2=80=99t think that this is critical, but I can see that it might = be useful.

 

Thanks,

Rob

 

 

From: netmod <netmod-bounces@ietf.org> On Behalf Of Bal=C3=A1zs = Lengyel
Sent: 23 July 2019 = 13:09
To: Andy = Bierman <andy@yumaworks.com>; Juergen = Schoenwaelder <j.schoenwaelder@jacobs-university.de>= ;; netmod@ietf.org
Subject: Re: [netmod] = Instance-data-format - shall we define etag and last-modified annotation = ?

 

Hello,

As Jurgen, Andy, Lada = and Joe is opposed to defining the annotations in the instance model = draft, and I don=E2=80=99t see it as crucial, I will take it = out.

IMHO it is a useful bit of functionality for = configuration data based use-cases, and I very much fear it will not = happen at all now; unless people speak up it is = removed.

Regards  Balazs

 

From: Andy Bierman <andy@yumaworks.com> 
Sent: 2019. j=C3=BAlius 23., kedd = 11:39
To: Juergen Schoenwaelder <j.schoenwaelder@jacobs-university.de>= ;; Bal=C3=A1zs Lengyel <balazs.lengyel@ericsson.com>; netmod@ietf.org
Subject: Re: [netmod] = Instance-data-format - shall we define etag and last-modified annotation = ?

 

 

 

On Tue, Jul 23, 2019 = at 7:24 AM Juergen Schoenwaelder <j.schoenwaelder@jacobs-university.de>= ; wrote:

Bal=C3=A1zs,

I am not sure these belongs to the = data types collection. If these
annotations are a per datastore = properties or per configuration
datastore properties (I am not sure = these properties make a lot of
sense for dynamically changing data in = <operational>, or these
properties only make sense for config = true nodes, more discussion
needed I guess), then the logical place = would be to define them would
be where the datastores are = defined.

I understand the timing concern but my preference is to = workout what
these annotations really are in an NMDA world and in a = second step to
figure out a way to define them in a reasonable amount = of time.

 

This work needs a lot = more thought because this WG is sort of abusing these = fields,

intended for HTTP = caching. The values are associated with a representation of a = response

to a request for some = portion of the datastore contents.  E.g., a representation in XML = must be a different

ETag than a JSON = representation (of the exact same datastore = contents).

 

I suggest new = meta-data be defined that has semantics specific to datastore contents, = not

the HTTP representation of the = response.

 

IMO this meta-data is = not really needed inside an instance file, but if included, then the = values

should be associated = with the representation (the instance file) and not the = datastores.

 

 

/js

 

 

Andy

 


On Tue, = Jul 23, 2019 at 02:11:23PM +0000, Bal=C3=A1zs Lengyel wrote:
> = Hello J=C3=BCrgen,
> Could the etag and last-modified annotations = be moved to 6991bis?
> Regards Balazs
> 
> -----Original = Message-----
> From: Juergen Schoenwaelder <j.schoenwaelder@jacobs-university.de>= ; 
> Sent: 2019. = j=C3=BAlius 22., h=C3=A9tf=C5=91 16:15
> To: Bal=C3=A1zs Lengyel = <balazs.lengyel@ericsson.com>
>= Cc: netmod@ietf.org
> Subject: Re: = [netmod] Instance-data-format - shall we define etag and
> = last-modified annotation ?
> 
> On Mon, Jul 22, 2019 = at 07:23:59PM +0000, Bal=C3=A1zs Lengyel wrote:
> > = Hello,
> > 
> > Restconf = (rfc8040) defined to useful bits of metadata about a YANG 
> > defined
> = > datastore: entity-tag and the last-modified timestamp.
> = > 
> > These = can be very useful in instance data sets, however Restconf 
> > defines an = encoding for these (as part of the http headers) that can 
> > not be used in = instance-data-sets.
> 
> This may actually = point out a flaw or omission of RFC 8527. RFC 8040 defines
> an = entity-tag for its "unified" datastore and it says "if = the RESTCONF
> server is co-located with a NETCONF server, then = this entity-tag MUST be for
> the "running" = datastore". So it is a bit unclear what happens with other
> = NMDA datastores and I did not quickly find something in RFC 8527. = (For
> example, can have a distinct etag for = <startup/>?
>  
> > = draft-ietf-netmod-yang-instance-file-format-03#section-7.2
> = >
> <https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-netmod-yang= -instance-file-format-03#
> > section-7.2>  =    defines metadata annotations for these two, that can = be
> > used in instance data
> > 
> >  =  md:annotation entity-tag {
> >      =  type string;
> >       description = "Used to encode the entity-tag .";
> >    =  }
> >     md:annotation last-modified = {
> >       type = yang:date-and-time;
> >       description = "Contains the date and time when the annotated
> >  =        instance was last modified (or = created).";
> >     }
> > 
> > In order to be = able to include this data, the annotations need to be 
> > defined in some = YANG module.
> > 
> > The question = has been raised whether
> > 
> > 1.  these = annotations should be defined in the ietf-yang-instance-data
> = > module as it needs them, as that is open or
> > 2.  = the annotations should be defined in another draft in a separate
> = > YANG module as any other annotation
> > 
> > The first = option is better because the instance-data needs these 
> > annotations, = and at this point we see no other user for the 
> > annotation, and = in this case the ongoing instance data draft will 
> > define = it
> > 
> = > The second option is better because, if later there are other = users 
> > for = these annotations, it might be strange to reference the 
> > = ietf-yang-instance-data module. Also why provide special treatment = to 
> > = these
> > 2 annotations?
> > 
> > The authors = support option 1 and don't have the time to start a new 
> > draft to define = these annotations.
> > 
> > On IETF105 in = the room there was more support for option 1. 
> > 
> > Please indicate = if you have an opinion about the choice of 1 or 2
> 
> Version -03 only = defines these annotations but does not do anything specific
> with = these definitions. So if the annotations are defined elsewhere, the = ID
> is as complete as before. If entity-tag and last-modified are = actually seen
> as datastore properties, it would be nice to have = them defined in the NMDA
> documents (and it seems we overlooked = this when we did the NMDA work).
> 
> I think this needs a = bit of discussion whether these are actually seen as
> datastore = properties. But in this case, I would lean towards option = 2.
> 
> = /js
> 
> = -- 
> Juergen = Schoenwaelder           Jacobs University = Bremen gGmbH
> Phone: +49 421 200 3587        =  Campus Ring 1 | 28759 Bremen | Germany
> Fax:  =  +49 421 200 3103         <https://www.jacobs-university.de/>


-- 
Juergen = Schoenwaelder           Jacobs University = Bremen gGmbH
Phone: +49 421 200 3587        =  Campus Ring 1 | 28759 Bremen | Germany
Fax:   +49 421 = 200 3103         <https://www.jacobs-university.de/>
_______________________________________________
netmod mailing = list
netmod@ietf.org
https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/netmod

____________= ___________________________________
netmod mailing list
netmod@ietf.= org
<= a href=3D"https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/netmod">https://www.= ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/netmod

 

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netmod@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 76736120332 for ; Wed, 24 Jul 2019 00:01:02 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.898 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.898 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_NONE=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id Y6kes_Wug4zv for ; Wed, 24 Jul 2019 00:01:00 -0700 (PDT) Received: from atlas5.jacobs-university.de (atlas5.jacobs-university.de [212.201.44.20]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ADH-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id E33D21202DF for ; Wed, 24 Jul 2019 00:00:59 -0700 (PDT) Received: from localhost (demetrius5.irc-it.jacobs-university.de [10.70.0.222]) by 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([212.201.44.23]) by localhost (demetrius5.jacobs-university.de [10.70.0.222]) (amavisd-new, port 10028) with ESMTP id 76uQb17-mEM6; Wed, 24 Jul 2019 09:00:58 +0200 (CEST) Received: from exchange.jacobs-university.de (SXCHMB01.jacobs.jacobs-university.de [10.70.0.120]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (Client CN "exchange.jacobs-university.de", Issuer "DFN-Verein Global Issuing CA" (verified OK)) by hermes.jacobs-university.de (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 3689120129; Wed, 24 Jul 2019 09:00:58 +0200 (CEST) Received: from anna.localdomain (10.50.218.117) by sxchmb03.jacobs.jacobs-university.de (10.70.0.155) with Microsoft SMTP Server (version=TLS1_2, cipher=TLS_ECDHE_RSA_WITH_AES_256_GCM_SHA384) id 15.1.1713.5; Wed, 24 Jul 2019 09:00:57 +0200 Received: by anna.localdomain (Postfix, from userid 501) id 497BC346740; Wed, 24 Jul 2019 09:00:57 +0200 (CEST) Date: Wed, 24 Jul 2019 09:00:57 +0200 From: Juergen Schoenwaelder To: Ladislav Lhotka CC: Message-ID: <20190724070057.i7bmdeuzqu32gozi@anna.jacobs.jacobs-university.de> Reply-To: Juergen Schoenwaelder Mail-Followup-To: Ladislav Lhotka , netmod@ietf.org References: <20190721203047.oufc3bcwnjsczhmk@anna.jacobs.jacobs-university.de> <87muh53i2i.fsf@nic.cz> <20190722220755.omgpt4jebqbosals@anna.jacobs.jacobs-university.de> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: User-Agent: NeoMutt/20180716 X-ClientProxiedBy: SXCHMB02.jacobs.jacobs-university.de (10.70.0.121) To sxchmb03.jacobs.jacobs-university.de (10.70.0.155) Archived-At: Subject: Re: [netmod] 6991bis: domain-name X-BeenThere: netmod@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: NETMOD WG list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 24 Jul 2019 07:01:02 -0000 On Mon, Jul 22, 2019 at 06:41:42PM -0400, Ladislav Lhotka wrote: > > But these two unsupported cases only make sense in the context of DNS zone data. > I would suggest instead > > NEW: > > "The domain-name type represents a DNS domain name. The > name SHOULD be fully qualified whenever possible. > This type is not intended for modeling DNS zone data, as > it does not support wildcards [RFC 4592] and classless > in-addr.arpa delegations [RFC 2317]." > Yes, this is better. I will put the following in the next revision: "The domain-name type represents a DNS domain name. The name SHOULD be fully qualified whenever possible. This type does not support wildcards (see RFC 4592) and classless in-addr.arpa delegations (see RFC 2317). And I will remove the sentence you wanted to remove since the above more clearly explains when to use / not to use this type. /js -- Juergen Schoenwaelder Jacobs University Bremen gGmbH Phone: +49 421 200 3587 Campus Ring 1 | 28759 Bremen | Germany Fax: +49 421 200 3103 From nobody Wed Jul 24 02:18:51 2019 Return-Path: X-Original-To: netmod@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: netmod@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6351F120132 for ; Wed, 24 Jul 2019 02:18:49 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.898 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.898 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=broadband-forum-org.20150623.gappssmtp.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id qTwJvY6tl6UB for ; Wed, 24 Jul 2019 02:18:47 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail-io1-xd42.google.com (mail-io1-xd42.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:4864:20::d42]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 0BB4012012E for ; Wed, 24 Jul 2019 02:18:47 -0700 (PDT) Received: by mail-io1-xd42.google.com with SMTP id e20so57708348iob.9 for ; Wed, 24 Jul 2019 02:18:47 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=broadband-forum-org.20150623.gappssmtp.com; s=20150623; h=mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date:message-id:subject:to :cc; bh=j6OQ36Dacf7TpV1r9ItBmeUFZS4HyUBVa9yYXy9rDIY=; b=WS6SjIGZdf+ariIG8V/+3nKAi0mO+fR0XtBvJGGLEo9FipI41OhV6sLdjQCUpbimvR zujlkC8c5Sk87osgJi+eVcUjsQfp6oeh7iO22P65NkGLX35TK60DJK1FcO/OCIDTtdhL gOyXUG2oRI8IKkXmf7DjhgXdowjPp7gZUTH1pkFLP7M5EXzW9twzlaPDkuX9OaltL3QL v5luiX8yA2PA9e2YG9sIKhqs1P16TR0QqmWkPB6ClCdwG2xXcw/Qm48vzY0HxSmDBDT2 R1CXIVlTqh18DkgVJr7IwTO0quiF77Z2aPO+G0cA4rrbeN4khMLHjuvRf25o/zm2r6Im 4opw== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date :message-id:subject:to:cc; bh=j6OQ36Dacf7TpV1r9ItBmeUFZS4HyUBVa9yYXy9rDIY=; b=Y8MQmh42z1sCzMO7DLoG6vsfMswo7MR75Ly2yv1VPtQOhyFZTJe7AqFYrayJKWkaBy SS4+yR/hEBwpZCEEJ1OJ2pGmv9+IoB49BhBfcMSovIXz4hmGO3QjrJyCv4xTmpac52z8 9zMg0dBuAvLxQp8LfRmzL5b/3xlMn/6IEveBsn3svZzXQMYbXSPADO6BEwVNJjyp1vd3 87EUju3kj4/m+0tCzB88pM2D0ItofPEk0cDflS1Syb6ykY3hzHp5YYuYw6cQoe5iPeQy aSy+/e19EQc1TjT1oiH3TczYk1895a+pukmcm6rT6XR1D877GBHRHjWjUN4Kf1oVa+Lu Xwew== X-Gm-Message-State: APjAAAWbjxDM1UGHzjydIMckVt3ivz437xs1RLGs2NIhi7bavJhfqbDN Lug/3dmJJhU0BJPGFuMuzOXDQmf4BsN0ZmbrlwnDAZlu1JtjUg== X-Google-Smtp-Source: APXvYqzsRhck/eKDC7pwJJGM78JJSeVm7diNsjuUOjEfWynouzhws8D4X90Y+UV+ofgpGA5xVCQWqy738qfspSIkJ6k= X-Received: by 2002:a05:6602:22cc:: with SMTP id e12mr11852254ioe.192.1563959925817; Wed, 24 Jul 2019 02:18:45 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 References: <20190721203047.oufc3bcwnjsczhmk@anna.jacobs.jacobs-university.de> <87muh53i2i.fsf@nic.cz> <20190722220755.omgpt4jebqbosals@anna.jacobs.jacobs-university.de> <20190724070057.i7bmdeuzqu32gozi@anna.jacobs.jacobs-university.de> In-Reply-To: <20190724070057.i7bmdeuzqu32gozi@anna.jacobs.jacobs-university.de> From: William Lupton Date: Wed, 24 Jul 2019 10:18:32 +0100 Message-ID: To: NetMod WG Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="000000000000d254bc058e69cbd0" Archived-At: Subject: Re: [netmod] 6991bis: domain-name X-BeenThere: netmod@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: NETMOD WG list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 24 Jul 2019 09:18:49 -0000 --000000000000d254bc058e69cbd0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" I think that "or" is slightly better here: "...does not support wildcards (see RFC 4592) *or* classless in-addr.arpa delegations (see RFC 2317)" On Wed, 24 Jul 2019 at 08:01, Juergen Schoenwaelder < j.schoenwaelder@jacobs-university.de> wrote: > On Mon, Jul 22, 2019 at 06:41:42PM -0400, Ladislav Lhotka wrote: > > > > But these two unsupported cases only make sense in the context of DNS > zone data. > > I would suggest instead > > > > NEW: > > > > "The domain-name type represents a DNS domain name. The > > name SHOULD be fully qualified whenever possible. > > This type is not intended for modeling DNS zone data, as > > it does not support wildcards [RFC 4592] and classless > > in-addr.arpa delegations [RFC 2317]." > > > > Yes, this is better. I will put the following in the next revision: > > "The domain-name type represents a DNS domain name. The > name SHOULD be fully qualified whenever possible. This > type does not support wildcards (see RFC 4592) and > classless in-addr.arpa delegations (see RFC 2317). > > And I will remove the sentence you wanted to remove since the above > more clearly explains when to use / not to use this type. > > /js > > -- > Juergen Schoenwaelder Jacobs University Bremen gGmbH > Phone: +49 421 200 3587 Campus Ring 1 | 28759 Bremen | Germany > Fax: +49 421 200 3103 > > _______________________________________________ > netmod mailing list > netmod@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/netmod > --000000000000d254bc058e69cbd0 Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
I think that "or" is slightly better here:
<= br>
"...does not support wildcards (see RFC 4592) or = classless in-addr.arpa delegations (see RFC 2317)"

On Wed, 24 Jul= 2019 at 08:01, Juergen Schoenwaelder <j.schoenwaelder@jacobs-university.de> wrote:<= br>
On Mon, Jul 22, = 2019 at 06:41:42PM -0400, Ladislav Lhotka wrote:
>
> But these two unsupported cases only make sense in the context of DNS = zone data.
> I would suggest instead
>
> NEW:
>
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0"The domain-name type represents= a DNS domain name.=C2=A0 The
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 name SHOULD be fully qualified whene= ver possible.
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 This type is not intended for modeli= ng DNS zone data, as
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 it does not support wildcards [RFC 4= 592] and classless
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 in-addr.arpa delegations [RFC 2317].= "
>

Yes, this is better. I will put the following in the next revision:

=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0"The domain-name type represents a DNS domain name= .=C2=A0 The
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 name SHOULD be fully qualified whenever possible. This=
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 type does not support wildcards (see RFC 4592) and
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 classless in-addr.arpa delegations (see RFC 2317).

And I will remove the sentence you wanted to remove since the above
more clearly explains when to use / not to use this type.

/js

--
Juergen Schoenwaelder=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0Jacobs Univer= sity Bremen gGmbH
Phone: +49 421 200 3587=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0Campus Ring 1 | 28= 759 Bremen | Germany
Fax:=C2=A0 =C2=A0+49 421 200 3103=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0<https://www.jacobs-university.de/>

_______________________________________________
netmod mailing list
netmod@ietf.org https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/netmod
--000000000000d254bc058e69cbd0-- From nobody Wed Jul 24 02:39:15 2019 Return-Path: X-Original-To: netmod@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: netmod@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 71E5B1200F7 for ; Wed, 24 Jul 2019 02:39:13 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.897 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.897 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_NONE=0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id ZrzyDQPu28lw for ; Wed, 24 Jul 2019 02:39:11 -0700 (PDT) Received: from atlas5.jacobs-university.de (atlas5.jacobs-university.de [212.201.44.20]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ADH-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 4F879120135 for ; Wed, 24 Jul 2019 02:39:11 -0700 (PDT) Received: from localhost (demetrius5.irc-it.jacobs-university.de [10.70.0.222]) by atlas5.jacobs-university.de (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0DB6F86E; Wed, 24 Jul 2019 11:39:10 +0200 (CEST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at jacobs-university.de Received: from atlas5.jacobs-university.de ([10.70.0.198]) by localhost (demetrius5.jacobs-university.de [10.70.0.222]) (amavisd-new, port 10032) with ESMTP id cWcoYIoWZRUv; Wed, 24 Jul 2019 11:39:09 +0200 (CEST) Received: from hermes.jacobs-university.de (hermes.jacobs-university.de [212.201.44.23]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (Client CN "hermes.jacobs-university.de", Issuer "DFN-Verein Global Issuing CA" (verified OK)) by atlas5.jacobs-university.de (Postfix) with ESMTPS; Wed, 24 Jul 2019 11:39:09 +0200 (CEST) Received: from localhost (demetrius5.irc-it.jacobs-university.de [10.70.0.222]) by hermes.jacobs-university.de (Postfix) with ESMTP id DE9652012E; Wed, 24 Jul 2019 11:39:09 +0200 (CEST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at jacobs-university.de Received: from hermes.jacobs-university.de ([212.201.44.23]) by localhost (demetrius5.jacobs-university.de [10.70.0.222]) (amavisd-new, port 10028) with ESMTP id oQXTEvpODNP4; Wed, 24 Jul 2019 11:39:09 +0200 (CEST) Received: from exchange.jacobs-university.de (sxchmb04.jacobs.jacobs-university.de [10.70.0.156]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (Client CN "exchange.jacobs-university.de", Issuer "DFN-Verein Global Issuing CA" (verified OK)) by hermes.jacobs-university.de (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 731E02012C; Wed, 24 Jul 2019 11:39:09 +0200 (CEST) Received: from anna.localdomain (10.50.218.117) by sxchmb03.jacobs.jacobs-university.de (10.70.0.155) with Microsoft SMTP Server (version=TLS1_2, cipher=TLS_ECDHE_RSA_WITH_AES_256_GCM_SHA384) id 15.1.1713.5; Wed, 24 Jul 2019 11:39:08 +0200 Received: by anna.localdomain (Postfix, from userid 501) id A7B3634699D; Wed, 24 Jul 2019 11:39:08 +0200 (CEST) Date: Wed, 24 Jul 2019 11:39:08 +0200 From: Juergen Schoenwaelder To: William Lupton CC: NetMod WG , Ladislav Lhotka Message-ID: <20190724093908.tckgbvghngi4u5kv@anna.jacobs.jacobs-university.de> Reply-To: Juergen Schoenwaelder Mail-Followup-To: William Lupton , NetMod WG , Ladislav Lhotka References: <20190721203047.oufc3bcwnjsczhmk@anna.jacobs.jacobs-university.de> <87muh53i2i.fsf@nic.cz> <20190722220755.omgpt4jebqbosals@anna.jacobs.jacobs-university.de> <20190724070057.i7bmdeuzqu32gozi@anna.jacobs.jacobs-university.de> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: User-Agent: NeoMutt/20180716 X-ClientProxiedBy: SXCHMB02.jacobs.jacobs-university.de (10.70.0.121) To sxchmb03.jacobs.jacobs-university.de (10.70.0.155) Archived-At: Subject: Re: [netmod] 6991bis: domain-name X-BeenThere: netmod@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: NETMOD WG list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 24 Jul 2019 09:39:14 -0000 Yes, changed in my sources. /js On Wed, Jul 24, 2019 at 10:18:32AM +0100, William Lupton wrote: > I think that "or" is slightly better here: > > "...does not support wildcards (see RFC 4592) *or* classless in-addr.arpa > delegations (see RFC 2317)" > > On Wed, 24 Jul 2019 at 08:01, Juergen Schoenwaelder < > j.schoenwaelder@jacobs-university.de> wrote: > > > On Mon, Jul 22, 2019 at 06:41:42PM -0400, Ladislav Lhotka wrote: > > > > > > But these two unsupported cases only make sense in the context of DNS > > zone data. > > > I would suggest instead > > > > > > NEW: > > > > > > "The domain-name type represents a DNS domain name. The > > > name SHOULD be fully qualified whenever possible. > > > This type is not intended for modeling DNS zone data, as > > > it does not support wildcards [RFC 4592] and classless > > > in-addr.arpa delegations [RFC 2317]." > > > > > > > Yes, this is better. I will put the following in the next revision: > > > > "The domain-name type represents a DNS domain name. The > > name SHOULD be fully qualified whenever possible. This > > type does not support wildcards (see RFC 4592) and > > classless in-addr.arpa delegations (see RFC 2317). > > > > And I will remove the sentence you wanted to remove since the above > > more clearly explains when to use / not to use this type. > > > > /js > > > > -- > > Juergen Schoenwaelder Jacobs University Bremen gGmbH > > Phone: +49 421 200 3587 Campus Ring 1 | 28759 Bremen | Germany > > Fax: +49 421 200 3103 > > > > _______________________________________________ > > netmod mailing list > > netmod@ietf.org > > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/netmod > > -- Juergen Schoenwaelder Jacobs University Bremen gGmbH Phone: +49 421 200 3587 Campus Ring 1 | 28759 Bremen | Germany Fax: +49 421 200 3103 From nobody Wed Jul 24 04:43:34 2019 Return-Path: X-Original-To: netmod@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: netmod@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7C08612072E for ; Wed, 24 Jul 2019 04:43:28 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -4.199 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-4.199 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-2.3, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 3eLsB5GUex_4 for ; Wed, 24 Jul 2019 04:43:26 -0700 (PDT) Received: from huawei.com (lhrrgout.huawei.com [185.176.76.210]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 1788E1208C4 for ; Wed, 24 Jul 2019 04:43:26 -0700 (PDT) Received: from lhreml707-cah.china.huawei.com (unknown [172.18.7.106]) by Forcepoint Email with ESMTP id 6F412174D212A87D0266; Wed, 24 Jul 2019 12:43:23 +0100 (IST) Received: from NKGEML411-HUB.china.huawei.com (10.98.56.70) by lhreml707-cah.china.huawei.com (10.201.108.48) with Microsoft SMTP Server (TLS) id 14.3.408.0; Wed, 24 Jul 2019 12:43:22 +0100 Received: from NKGEML513-MBS.china.huawei.com ([169.254.2.207]) by nkgeml411-hub.china.huawei.com ([10.98.56.70]) with mapi id 14.03.0439.000; Wed, 24 Jul 2019 19:43:15 +0800 From: Qin Wu To: =?gb2312?B?QmFsqKJ6cyBMZW5neWVs?= , "Rob Wilton (rwilton)" , Ladislav Lhotka , NETMOD WG Thread-Topic: [netmod] YANG next Thread-Index: AQHVQXBE7xvjkyRE/k6D4lEjMcB046bYOGoAgAABPoCAAW1sag== Date: Wed, 24 Jul 2019 11:43:15 +0000 Message-ID: References: , In-Reply-To: Accept-Language: zh-CN, en-US Content-Language: zh-CN X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="_000_B8F9A780D330094D99AF023C5877DABAA883185Enkgeml513mbschi_" MIME-Version: 1.0 X-CFilter-Loop: Reflected Archived-At: Subject: Re: [netmod] YANG next X-BeenThere: netmod@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: NETMOD WG list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 24 Jul 2019 11:43:32 -0000 --_000_B8F9A780D330094D99AF023C5877DABAA883185Enkgeml513mbschi_ Content-Type: text/plain; charset="gb2312" Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 KzENClNlcGFyYXRlIFlBTkcgbmV4dCBmcm9tIFlBTkcgbmV4dCBzdGVwIGRpc2N1c3NlZCBpbiB5 YW5nIHNpZGUgbWVldGluZywgaXMgaXQgdGhlIHRpbWUgdG8gY2FsbCBmb3IgYW5vdGhlciB3b3Jr c2hvcCBpbiBJRVRGIHRvIGRpc2N1c3MgWUFORyBuZXh0IGFuZCBOZXRjb25mIG5leHQuDQoNCl9f X19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fDQrO4sfVIFFpbg0KTW9iaWxlo7orODYtMTM5 MTQ3MzQzNjA8dGVsOis4Ni0xMzkxNDczNDM2MD4oTW9iaWxlIE51bWJlcikNCkVtYWlso7piaWxs Lnd1QGh1YXdlaS5jb208bWFpbHRvOmJpbGwud3VAaHVhd2VpLmNvbT4NCg0KDQoNCreivP7Iy6O6 IEJhbKiienMgTGVuZ3llbDxiYWxhenMubGVuZ3llbEBlcmljc3Nvbi5jb208bWFpbHRvOmJhbGF6 cy5sZW5neWVsQGVyaWNzc29uLmNvbT4+DQrK1bz+yMujuiBSb2IgV2lsdG9uIChyd2lsdG9uKTxy d2lsdG9uQGNpc2NvLmNvbTxtYWlsdG86cndpbHRvbkBjaXNjby5jb20+PjtMYWRpc2xhdiBMaG90 a2E8bGhvdGthQG5pYy5jejxtYWlsdG86bGhvdGthQG5pYy5jej4+O05FVE1PRCBXRzxuZXRtb2RA aWV0Zi5vcmc8bWFpbHRvOm5ldG1vZEBpZXRmLm9yZz4+DQrW98zio7ogUmU6IFtuZXRtb2RdIFlB TkcgbmV4dA0KyrG85KO6IDIwMTktMDctMjMgMTc6NTY6NDUNCg0KKzEgICBCYWxhenMNCg0KLS0t LS1PcmlnaW5hbCBNZXNzYWdlLS0tLS0NCkZyb206IG5ldG1vZCA8bmV0bW9kLWJvdW5jZXNAaWV0 Zi5vcmc+IE9uIEJlaGFsZiBPZiBSb2IgV2lsdG9uIChyd2lsdG9uKQ0KU2VudDogMjAxOS4gaqiy bGl1cyAyMy4sIGtlZGQgMTc6NTENClRvOiBMYWRpc2xhdiBMaG90a2EgPGxob3RrYUBuaWMuY3o+ OyBORVRNT0QgV0cgPG5ldG1vZEBpZXRmLm9yZz4NClN1YmplY3Q6IFJlOiBbbmV0bW9kXSBZQU5H IG5leHQNCg0KSGkgTGFkYSwNCg0KSSBzdGlsbCB0aGluayB0aGF0IGl0IG1ha2VzIHNlbnNlIHRv IGRvIFlBTkcgTmV4dCwgb24gdGhlIGFzc3VtcHRpb24gdGhhdCBpdA0Kd2lsbCB0YWtlIGEgY291 cGxlIG9mIHllYXJzIHRvIHdvcmsgb3V0LCBtYXliZSBsb25nZXIgaWYgdGhlIHdvcmsgZG9lc24n dA0KcHJvcGVybHkgZ2V0IHN0YXJ0ZWQgdW50aWwgdGhlIFlBTkcgdmVyc2lvbmluZyB3b3JrIGhh cyBwcm9ncmVzc2VkIGZ1cnRoZXIuDQoNCldoZW4gSSBsb29rIGF0IHRoZSBZQU5HIE5leHQgaXNz dWUgbGlzdCwgSSB0aGluayB0aGF0IHRoZXJlIGFyZSBxdWl0ZSBhIGxvdA0Kb2YgdGhpbmdzIG9u IHRoYXQgbGlzdCAoc29tZSBvZiB3aGljaCBhcmUgcXVpdGUgc21hbGwpIHRoYXQgd291bGQgYmUg Z29vZCB0bw0KZG8sIGFuZCB3aWxsIGhlbHAgbW9kZWxsaW5nIGVmZm9ydHMuDQoNClRoYW5rcywN ClJvYg0KDQoNCi0tLS0tT3JpZ2luYWwgTWVzc2FnZS0tLS0tDQpGcm9tOiBuZXRtb2QgPG5ldG1v ZC1ib3VuY2VzQGlldGYub3JnPiBPbiBCZWhhbGYgT2YgTGFkaXNsYXYgTGhvdGthDQpTZW50OiAy MyBKdWx5IDIwMTkgMTI6MDMNClRvOiBORVRNT0QgV0cgPG5ldG1vZEBpZXRmLm9yZz4NClN1Ympl Y3Q6IFtuZXRtb2RdIFlBTkcgbmV4dA0KDQpIaSwNCg0KdGhpcyBtb3JuaW5nIEkgYXR0ZW5kZWQg dGhlIHNpZGUgbWVldGluZyAiTmV4dCBTdGVwIG9mIElFVEYgWUFORyIuIEkgd2FzDQpzb21ld2hh dCBtaXNsZWQgaW50byB0aGlua2luZyB0aGF0IGl0IHdvdWxkIGJlIGFib3V0IGZ1dHVyZSBldm9s dXRpb24gb2YNCllBTkcgdGhlIGxhbmd1YWdlLCB3aGljaCB3YXMgbm90IHRoZSBjYXNlIGF0IGFs bC4gSG93ZXZlciwgbXkgcGVyc29uYWwNCmNvbmNsdXNpb24gZnJvbSB0aGUgbWVldGluZyBpcyB0 aGF0IGl0IHdvdWxkIGJlIGEgdG90YWwgZGlzYXN0ZXIgdG8gdGhyb3cgaW4NCmEgbmV3IHZlcnNp b24gb2YgWUFORyB3aXRoaW4gdGhlIG5leHQgZmV3IHllYXJzIG9yIHNvLg0KDQpUaGUgb3BlcmF0 b3JzIGFuZCBlcXVpcG1lbnQgdmVuZG9ycyBhcmUgYnVzeSBwdXR0aW5nIHRvZ2V0aGVyIFlBTkcg bW9kdWxlcw0KYW5kIHRvb2xzLCBmaWxsaW5nIHRoZSBnYXBzLCBjb3Bpbmcgd2l0aCBOTURBLCBz Y2hlbWEgbW91bnQsIElFVEYgdmVyc3VzDQpPcGVuQ29uZmlnIGV0Yy4gQSBuZXcgWUFORyB2ZXJz aW9uIChhbmQgbW9kdWxlcyB3cml0dGVuIGluIGl0KSB3b3VsZCBJTU8gYmUNCmV4dHJlbWVseSBj b3VudGVyLXByb2R1Y3RpdmUgYXQgdGhpcyByYXRoZXIgdHVyYnVsZW50IHN0YWdlLg0KDQpTbywg aWYgd2Ugd2FudCB0byBjb250aW51ZSB0aGUgeWFuZy1uZXh0IGRpc2N1c3Npb24sIEkgdGhpbmsg d2UgZmlyc3QgaGF2ZQ0KdG8gZmlndXJlIG91dCBob3cgdG8gZXZvbHZlIFlBTkcgd2l0aG91dCBt YWtpbmcgd2F2ZXMgaW4gdGhlIGN1cnJlbnQgWUFORw0KcG9uZCBhbmQgbGV0IHRoZSBvcGVyYXRv cnMgYW5kIHZlbmRvcnMgZG8gdGhlaXIgd29yaywgd2l0aG91dCB3aGljaCBZQU5HIGNhbg0KbmV2 ZXIgc3VjY2VlZC4NCg0KTGFkYQ0KDQotLQ0KTGFkaXNsYXYgTGhvdGthDQpIZWFkLCBDWi5OSUMg TGFicw0KUEdQIEtleSBJRDogMHhCOEY5MkIwOEE5Rjc2QzY3DQoNCl9fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19f X19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fDQpuZXRtb2QgbWFpbGluZyBsaXN0DQpuZXRt b2RAaWV0Zi5vcmcNCmh0dHBzOi8vd3d3LmlldGYub3JnL21haWxtYW4vbGlzdGluZm8vbmV0bW9k DQoNCl9fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fDQpuZXRt b2QgbWFpbGluZyBsaXN0DQpuZXRtb2RAaWV0Zi5vcmcNCmh0dHBzOi8vd3d3LmlldGYub3JnL21h aWxtYW4vbGlzdGluZm8vbmV0bW9kDQo= --_000_B8F9A780D330094D99AF023C5877DABAA883185Enkgeml513mbschi_ Content-Type: text/html; charset="gb2312" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
+1
Separate YANG next from YANG next step discussed in yang side meeting, is i= t the time to call for another workshop in IETF to discuss YANG next and Ne= tconf next.

=CE=E2=C7=D5 Qin
Mobile=A3=BA+86-13914734360(Mob= ile Number)
Email=A3=BAbill.wu@huawei.com



=B7=A2=BC=FE=C8=CB=A3=BA Bal=A8=A2zs Lengyel<balazs.lengyel@ericsson.com>
=CA=D5=BC=FE=C8=CB=A3=BA Rob Wilton (rwilton)<rwilton@cisco.com>;Ladislav Lhotka<lhotka@nic.cz>;NETMOD WG<netmod@ietf.org>
=D6=F7=CC=E2=A3=BA Re: [netmod] YANG next
=CA=B1=BC=E4=A3=BA 2019-07-23 17:56:45

+1   Balazs

-----Original Message-----
From: netmod <netmod-bounces@ietf.org> On Behalf Of Rob Wilton (rwilt= on)
Sent: 2019. j=A8=B2lius 23., kedd 17:51
To: Ladislav Lhotka <lhotka@nic.cz>; NETMOD WG <netmod@ietf.org>= ;
Subject: Re: [netmod] YANG next

Hi Lada,

I still think that it makes sense to do YANG Next, on the assumption that i= t
will take a couple of years to work out, maybe longer if the work doesn't properly get started until the YANG versioning work has progressed further.=

When I look at the YANG Next issue list, I think that there are quite a lot=
of things on that list (some of which are quite small) that would be good t= o
do, and will help modelling efforts.

Thanks,
Rob


-----Original Message-----
From: netmod <netmod-bounces@ietf.org> On Behalf Of Ladislav Lhotka Sent: 23 July 2019 12:03
To: NETMOD WG <netmod@ietf.org>
Subject: [netmod] YANG next

Hi,

this morning I attended the side meeting "Next Step of IETF YANG"= . I was
somewhat misled into thinking that it would be about future evolution of YANG the language, which was not the case at all. However, my personal
conclusion from the meeting is that it would be a total disaster to throw i= n
a new version of YANG within the next few years or so.

The operators and equipment vendors are busy putting together YANG modules<= br> and tools, filling the gaps, coping with NMDA, schema mount, IETF versus OpenConfig etc. A new YANG version (and modules written in it) would IMO be=
extremely counter-productive at this rather turbulent stage.

So, if we want to continue the yang-next discussion, I think we first have<= br> to figure out how to evolve YANG without making waves in the current YANG pond and let the operators and vendors do their work, without which YANG ca= n
never succeed.

Lada

--
Ladislav Lhotka
Head, CZ.NIC Labs
PGP Key ID: 0xB8F92B08A9F76C67

_______________________________________________
netmod mailing list
netmod@ietf.org
https://www.ietf.o= rg/mailman/listinfo/netmod

_______________________________________________
netmod mailing list
netmod@ietf.org
https://www.ietf.o= rg/mailman/listinfo/netmod
 --_000_B8F9A780D330094D99AF023C5877DABAA883185Enkgeml513mbschi_-- From nobody Wed Jul 24 06:08:49 2019 Return-Path: X-Original-To: netmod@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: netmod@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 092041209D7 for ; Wed, 24 Jul 2019 06:08:46 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -6.997 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-6.997 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_HI=-5, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_NONE=0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (1024-bit key) header.d=nic.cz Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id hrsqOUW0NP3B for ; Wed, 24 Jul 2019 06:08:44 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail.nic.cz (mail.nic.cz [IPv6:2001:1488:800:400::400]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id B77CE1202C9 for ; Wed, 24 Jul 2019 06:08:43 -0700 (PDT) Received: from birdie (unknown [IPv6:2001:67c:1232:144:1a4f:a84b:2bfd:c611]) by mail.nic.cz (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 13CF8140AB8; Wed, 24 Jul 2019 15:08:40 +0200 (CEST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/simple; d=nic.cz; s=default; t=1563973722; bh=ivyXHOopZw2syHnkQQfgLzhgJSLEL7lYTg+V3QwTdH4=; h=From:To:Date; b=DndqV746emI/gzeYZPxX9BzfF0FGjfUHyWnyo1lxgZcm3aoMB2w7U94w69wvLXUyq x3MtdFLolTNtpIEiy0DzL1KOymUt/b94Y31saSDzsP5V8wfJSZG9ltAymjEU6rwgIL GdABGYmTyWQdbgbvtTiUwl3HoQPioXrnUpO0pGgI= Message-ID: <331cebec8a3f22b93a54a89be5ad882cd1dc1d11.camel@nic.cz> From: Ladislav Lhotka To: William Lupton , NetMod WG Date: Wed, 24 Jul 2019 09:08:38 -0400 In-Reply-To: References: <20190721203047.oufc3bcwnjsczhmk@anna.jacobs.jacobs-university.de> <87muh53i2i.fsf@nic.cz> <20190722220755.omgpt4jebqbosals@anna.jacobs.jacobs-university.de> <20190724070057.i7bmdeuzqu32gozi@anna.jacobs.jacobs-university.de> Organization: CZ.NIC Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" User-Agent: Evolution 3.32.4 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Virus-Scanned: clamav-milter 0.100.3 at mail.nic.cz X-Virus-Status: Clean Archived-At: Subject: Re: [netmod] 6991bis: domain-name X-BeenThere: netmod@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: NETMOD WG list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 24 Jul 2019 13:08:48 -0000 On Wed, 2019-07-24 at 10:18 +0100, William Lupton wrote: > I think that "or" is slightly better here: > > "...does not support wildcards (see RFC 4592) or classless in-addr.arpa > delegations (see RFC 2317)" I agree, thanks. Lada > > On Wed, 24 Jul 2019 at 08:01, Juergen Schoenwaelder < > j.schoenwaelder@jacobs-university.de> wrote: > > On Mon, Jul 22, 2019 at 06:41:42PM -0400, Ladislav Lhotka wrote: > > > > > > But these two unsupported cases only make sense in the context of DNS zone > > data. > > > I would suggest instead > > > > > > NEW: > > > > > > "The domain-name type represents a DNS domain name. The > > > name SHOULD be fully qualified whenever possible. > > > This type is not intended for modeling DNS zone data, as > > > it does not support wildcards [RFC 4592] and classless > > > in-addr.arpa delegations [RFC 2317]." > > > > > > > Yes, this is better. I will put the following in the next revision: > > > > "The domain-name type represents a DNS domain name. The > > name SHOULD be fully qualified whenever possible. This > > type does not support wildcards (see RFC 4592) and > > classless in-addr.arpa delegations (see RFC 2317). > > > > And I will remove the sentence you wanted to remove since the above > > more clearly explains when to use / not to use this type. > > > > /js > > -- Ladislav Lhotka Head, CZ.NIC Labs PGP Key ID: 0xB8F92B08A9F76C67 From nobody Wed Jul 24 06:52:17 2019 Return-Path: X-Original-To: netmod@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: netmod@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id BF7AB12023C for ; Wed, 24 Jul 2019 06:52:10 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.897 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.897 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_NONE=0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id juQZS1o3gTOy for ; Wed, 24 Jul 2019 06:52:08 -0700 (PDT) Received: from trail.lhotka.name (trail.lhotka.name [77.48.224.143]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4BC701202C6 for ; Wed, 24 Jul 2019 06:52:08 -0700 (PDT) Received: by trail.lhotka.name (Postfix, from userid 109) id 4BF0C182048B; Wed, 24 Jul 2019 15:50:24 +0200 (CEST) Received: from localhost (dhcp-9ac5.meeting.ietf.org [31.133.154.197]) by trail.lhotka.name (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 16253182004A; Wed, 24 Jul 2019 15:50:06 +0200 (CEST) From: Ladislav Lhotka To: Juergen Schoenwaelder Cc: Andy Bierman , NETMOD WG In-Reply-To: <20190723182304.5yrp54q26zhv7uvb@anna.jacobs.jacobs-university.de> References: <02c4110737b4ff23f966e6153fad764f04436089.camel@nic.cz> <20190723182304.5yrp54q26zhv7uvb@anna.jacobs.jacobs-university.de> Mail-Followup-To: Juergen Schoenwaelder , Andy Bierman , NETMOD WG Date: Wed, 24 Jul 2019 09:51:46 -0400 Message-ID: <87sgqvlevh.fsf@nic.cz> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Archived-At: Subject: Re: [netmod] YANG next X-BeenThere: netmod@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: NETMOD WG list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 24 Jul 2019 13:52:16 -0000 Juergen Schoenwaelder writes: > On Tue, Jul 23, 2019 at 02:00:29PM -0400, Ladislav Lhotka wrote: >> >> This problem is actually not limited to YANG itself - people are reporting >> problems with the transition to NMDA. >> > > The YANG update from 1 to 1.1 mostly affected compiler writers - and > to a much lesser extend module authors and module implementors. NMDA, > affects client and server implementors much more directly, additional > instrumentation on the server side needs to be written, application > logic on the client side needs to be adjusted. NMDA is an evolution of > architectural principles and this already indicates that there is a > certain investment to make. But both updates induced some changes in YANG modules that affect users and integrators. Take ietf-ospf module as an example: it is of course a great addition to the YANG module collection, but in order to use it, all tools have to support - YANG 1.1, e.g. because of the special XPath functions, and - NMDA, because otherwise state data are missing. Despite the fact that YANG 1.1 and NMDA are undoubtedly improvements, users may get frustrated if lazy authors (including myself) don't update their tools in a timely manner. > > If we discuss YANG next, we should compare it to the YANG 1 to 1.1 > transition and not to the NMDA transition. When we started YANG 1.1 Both types of changes may have similar effects on YANG users. > work, there were people who said that nobody would implement it. But > then implementations were adopted relatively fast when we finalized > YANG 1.1. When we started YANG 1.1, there were only a few YANG modules around with little practical use, so nobody really cared. The situation is now very different. Lada > > While a collection of patches (updates) of YANG 1.1 may sound simpler, > I am not sure this is really true. We will loose a common baseline and > instead get complexity since we will get systems that all support > different sets of patches (updates) of YANG 1.1. I believe we are all > much better off if we have a common baseline language and tools that > support the common baseline language. Again, if done right, YANG next > will mostly affect compiler writers and tool makers and not so much > module authors and implementors. > > /js > > -- > Juergen Schoenwaelder Jacobs University Bremen gGmbH > Phone: +49 421 200 3587 Campus Ring 1 | 28759 Bremen | Germany > Fax: +49 421 200 3103 -- Ladislav Lhotka Head, CZ.NIC Labs PGP Key ID: 0xB8F92B08A9F76C67 From nobody Wed Jul 24 07:10:42 2019 Return-Path: X-Original-To: netmod@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: netmod@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7CE66120271 for ; Wed, 24 Jul 2019 07:10:40 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.898 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.898 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=yumaworks-com.20150623.gappssmtp.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id Bg2HkqFfzj6s for ; Wed, 24 Jul 2019 07:10:37 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail-lj1-x229.google.com (mail-lj1-x229.google.com [IPv6:2a00:1450:4864:20::229]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 14D97120240 for ; Wed, 24 Jul 2019 07:10:37 -0700 (PDT) Received: by mail-lj1-x229.google.com with SMTP id v18so44613877ljh.6 for ; Wed, 24 Jul 2019 07:10:36 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=yumaworks-com.20150623.gappssmtp.com; s=20150623; h=mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date:message-id:subject:to; bh=ropafWM9/N+wDUy1xiFPQCIKYwernGvzNAUFsI4dEkE=; b=SXxY9Ev5UAn5sBAQfK140gK8nD2HDjzFLHNfNGM1g55EbtY9BnMkD81LUMnX2/iTUE Kxksi3cD9AYbO2hzG9rjwtavTgFycD0c9YLqyUUUnAWHVr0vsXBLudtsj4XYmTWBIbBl XbYbJN2Z8+vXyYY4h249XMqhHNjzmCpl0V0LQysPfjKf+zq4Mu2hKd30jL+FZd9cwppn 5N12z3xD3Zn/7XIjGb3uQdz0PtXJWIozasfeKCTodfApUupnQOcqumIx3wuFEHVeRZb2 pxpXylC6q9OGcmk0mvcUsJAjyRR56SB7b4M4tvL1rsJqfDVZ+HXcberLoyBJTTDWaJrw D97w== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date :message-id:subject:to; bh=ropafWM9/N+wDUy1xiFPQCIKYwernGvzNAUFsI4dEkE=; b=H/yEbQ3dlznF9pa82orqID0XeVJDwK3iOfQUMtEwNLHDc/FWfXQ4t54R5QLEcIgxHZ 4E5Thk36cXnti09hyC4x21RNx3T9G3xrYualvJLWCu0XGK/kOLW3+h2gcZ2BJIeh+h0t +YKBHytwkCIg4JTk/G2L/5gPS7/k2/4JuaEAb9F0/EWSZBoWB+gEdxubZcywXeeoY6v1 E4KbXsQkV+++4DzFBK0TFwb55QyBUNG72SUhMOSCI28YRw/DQ60tfs6qWmhjwoiMo7s+ KKtppG/Q/Hy7ZunwtaflrmLy/9UDesvSg78eVSbqdawIF+fqhk9i1X0wYp/+zcAUP7PJ 2bcQ== X-Gm-Message-State: APjAAAXcOFcMUCHVR2lnZWwErpV6ObIbuq9/Q/4HRImdAyUhJxRhEGNy ZYupSh+csHd6vJjurkQs8Z0TzDIy76Yt7VtRK0IHjA== X-Google-Smtp-Source: APXvYqwl1n1ecD/fGTdqSj6+4qPNzb8BP2wX45g8biLSHxGHr2lhPr/yGKuPXmhc7kdESgUXgX5Dl/Oe8AjgdGothJo= X-Received: by 2002:a2e:8ecb:: with SMTP id e11mr4730936ljl.218.1563977434985; Wed, 24 Jul 2019 07:10:34 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 References: <02c4110737b4ff23f966e6153fad764f04436089.camel@nic.cz> <20190723182304.5yrp54q26zhv7uvb@anna.jacobs.jacobs-university.de> <87sgqvlevh.fsf@nic.cz> In-Reply-To: <87sgqvlevh.fsf@nic.cz> From: Andy Bierman Date: Wed, 24 Jul 2019 07:10:23 -0700 Message-ID: To: Juergen Schoenwaelder , Andy Bierman , NETMOD WG Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="000000000000730a46058e6ddf9a" Archived-At: Subject: Re: [netmod] YANG next X-BeenThere: netmod@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: NETMOD WG list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 24 Jul 2019 14:10:41 -0000 --000000000000730a46058e6ddf9a Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" On Wed, Jul 24, 2019 at 6:52 AM Ladislav Lhotka wrote: > Juergen Schoenwaelder writes: > > > On Tue, Jul 23, 2019 at 02:00:29PM -0400, Ladislav Lhotka wrote: > >> > >> This problem is actually not limited to YANG itself - people are > reporting > >> problems with the transition to NMDA. > >> > > > > The YANG update from 1 to 1.1 mostly affected compiler writers - and > > to a much lesser extend module authors and module implementors. NMDA, > > affects client and server implementors much more directly, additional > > instrumentation on the server side needs to be written, application > > logic on the client side needs to be adjusted. NMDA is an evolution of > > architectural principles and this already indicates that there is a > > certain investment to make. > > But both updates induced some changes in YANG modules that affect users > and integrators. Take ietf-ospf module as an example: it is of course a > great addition to the YANG module collection, but in order to use it, all > tools have to support > > - YANG 1.1, e.g. because of the special XPath functions, and > > - NMDA, because otherwise state data are missing. > > Despite the fact that YANG 1.1 and NMDA are undoubtedly improvements, > users may get frustrated if lazy authors (including myself) don't update > their tools in a timely manner. > > > > > If we discuss YANG next, we should compare it to the YANG 1 to 1.1 > > transition and not to the NMDA transition. When we started YANG 1.1 > > Both types of changes may have similar effects on YANG users. > > > work, there were people who said that nobody would implement it. But > > then implementations were adopted relatively fast when we finalized > > YANG 1.1. > > When we started YANG 1.1, there were only a few YANG modules around with > little practical use, so nobody really cared. The situation is now very > different. > > Not that different. The IETF does not value stability that much. Maybe customer expectations are different, but some of us have to follow 2 simple rules: - Whatever works SHALL continue to work - If you changed how it works, you broke it (even if you fixed it) Some customers even think they should be able to upgrade from any existing version to any new version, and these rules still hold. Therefore every change in server behavior must be "opt-in" by the vendor and maybe the client as well. Instead of automatically upgrading because of course you want the spiffy new features, vendors want the behavior to stay exactly the same (unless they choose to change it). There is no real need for YANG 1.2 unless and until NBC changes need to be made, and we try to avoid doing that. Lada > > Andy > > > > While a collection of patches (updates) of YANG 1.1 may sound simpler, > > I am not sure this is really true. We will loose a common baseline and > > instead get complexity since we will get systems that all support > > different sets of patches (updates) of YANG 1.1. I believe we are all > > much better off if we have a common baseline language and tools that > > support the common baseline language. Again, if done right, YANG next > > will mostly affect compiler writers and tool makers and not so much > > module authors and implementors. > > > > /js > > > > -- > > Juergen Schoenwaelder Jacobs University Bremen gGmbH > > Phone: +49 421 200 3587 Campus Ring 1 | 28759 Bremen | Germany > > Fax: +49 421 200 3103 > > -- > Ladislav Lhotka > Head, CZ.NIC Labs > PGP Key ID: 0xB8F92B08A9F76C67 > --000000000000730a46058e6ddf9a Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable


=
On Wed, Jul 24, 2019 at 6:52 AM Ladis= lav Lhotka <lhotka@nic.cz> wrote= :
Juergen Schoen= waelder <j.schoenwaelder@jacobs-university.de> writes:

> On Tue, Jul 23, 2019 at 02:00:29PM -0400, Ladislav Lhotka wrote:
>>
>> This problem is actually not limited to YANG itself - people are r= eporting
>> problems with the transition to NMDA.
>>
>
> The YANG update from 1 to 1.1 mostly affected compiler writers - and > to a much lesser extend module authors and module implementors. NMDA,<= br> > affects client and server implementors much more directly, additional<= br> > instrumentation on the server side needs to be written, application > logic on the client side needs to be adjusted. NMDA is an evolution of=
> architectural principles and this already indicates that there is a > certain investment to make.

But both updates induced some changes in YANG modules that affect users and= integrators. Take ietf-ospf module as an example: it is of course a great = addition to the YANG module collection, but in order to use it, all tools h= ave to support

- YANG 1.1, e.g. because of the special XPath functions, and

- NMDA, because otherwise state data are missing.

Despite the fact that YANG 1.1 and NMDA are undoubtedly improvements, users= may get frustrated if lazy authors (including myself) don't update the= ir tools in a timely manner.

>
> If we discuss YANG next, we should compare it to the YANG 1 to 1.1
> transition and not to the NMDA transition. When we started YANG 1.1
Both types of changes may have similar effects on YANG users.

> work, there were people who said that nobody would implement it. But > then implementations were adopted relatively fast when we finalized > YANG 1.1.

When we started YANG 1.1, there were only a few YANG modules around with li= ttle practical use, so nobody really cared. The situation is now very diffe= rent.


Not that different.
The IETF= does not value stability that much.
Maybe customer expectations = are different, but some of us have to follow 2 simple rules:

=
=C2=A0 =C2=A0- Whatever works SHALL continue to work=C2=A0
=
=C2=A0 =C2=A0- If you changed how it works, you broke it (even if you = fixed it)

Some customers even think they should be= able to upgrade from any existing version to any new version,
an= d these rules still hold. Therefore every change in server behavior must be= "opt-in" by the vendor and
maybe the client as well. I= nstead of automatically upgrading because of course you want the spiffy
new features, vendors want the behavior to stay exactly the same (un= less they choose to change it).

There is no real n= eed for YANG 1.2 unless and until NBC changes need to be made,
an= d we try to avoid doing that.


Lada



Andy
=C2=A0
>
> While a collection of patches (updates) of YANG 1.1 may sound simpler,=
> I am not sure this is really true. We will loose a common baseline and=
> instead get complexity since we will get systems that all support
> different sets of patches (updates) of YANG 1.1. I believe we are all<= br> > much better off if we have a common baseline language and tools that > support the common baseline language. Again, if done right, YANG next<= br> > will mostly affect compiler writers and tool makers and not so much > module authors and implementors.
>
> /js
>
> --
> Juergen Schoenwaelder=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0Jacobs U= niversity Bremen gGmbH
> Phone: +49 421 200 3587=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0Campus Ring 1= | 28759 Bremen | Germany
> Fax:=C2=A0 =C2=A0+49 421 200 3103=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0<= ;https://www.jacobs-university.de/>

--
Ladislav Lhotka
Head, CZ.NIC Labs
PGP Key ID: 0xB8F92B08A9F76C67
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protocol="application/x-pkcs7-signature"; micalg=SHA1; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_046C_01D5420A.8B2658F0" MIME-Version: 1.0 X-OriginatorOrg: ericsson.com X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-Network-Message-Id: df00bef7-5daf-4677-1988-08d710433609 X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-originalarrivaltime: 24 Jul 2019 14:28:35.0144 (UTC) X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-fromentityheader: Hosted X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-id: 92e84ceb-fbfd-47ab-be52-080c6b87953f X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-mailboxtype: HOSTED X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-userprincipalname: balazs.lengyel@ericsson.com X-MS-Exchange-Transport-CrossTenantHeadersStamped: VI1PR0701MB2637 Archived-At: Subject: Re: [netmod] YANG next X-BeenThere: netmod@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: NETMOD WG list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 24 Jul 2019 14:28:59 -0000 ------=_NextPart_000_046C_01D5420A.8B2658F0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_001_046D_01D5420A.8B2658F0" ------=_NextPart_001_046D_01D5420A.8B2658F0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable We already have some RFCs and drafts that propose extensions that = would/could go into YANG 1.2. I would like to have an = =E2=80=9Cofficial=E2=80=9D agreement/document/wiki that lists what is = planned to go into 1.2 whenever it happens. That would help us to have a = platform that contains a well defined set of additions beyond YANG 1.1. Regards Balazs =20 From: netmod On Behalf Of Andy Bierman Sent: 2019. j=C3=BAlius 24., szerda 10:10 To: Juergen Schoenwaelder ; Andy = Bierman ; NETMOD WG Subject: Re: [netmod] YANG next =20 =20 =20 On Wed, Jul 24, 2019 at 6:52 AM Ladislav Lhotka > wrote: Juergen Schoenwaelder > writes: > On Tue, Jul 23, 2019 at 02:00:29PM -0400, Ladislav Lhotka wrote: >>=20 >> This problem is actually not limited to YANG itself - people are = reporting >> problems with the transition to NMDA.=20 >> > > The YANG update from 1 to 1.1 mostly affected compiler writers - and > to a much lesser extend module authors and module implementors. NMDA, > affects client and server implementors much more directly, additional > instrumentation on the server side needs to be written, application > logic on the client side needs to be adjusted. NMDA is an evolution of > architectural principles and this already indicates that there is a > certain investment to make. But both updates induced some changes in YANG modules that affect users = and integrators. Take ietf-ospf module as an example: it is of course a = great addition to the YANG module collection, but in order to use it, = all tools have to support - YANG 1.1, e.g. because of the special XPath functions, and - NMDA, because otherwise state data are missing. Despite the fact that YANG 1.1 and NMDA are undoubtedly improvements, = users may get frustrated if lazy authors (including myself) don't update = their tools in a timely manner. > > If we discuss YANG next, we should compare it to the YANG 1 to 1.1 > transition and not to the NMDA transition. When we started YANG 1.1 Both types of changes may have similar effects on YANG users.=20 > work, there were people who said that nobody would implement it. But > then implementations were adopted relatively fast when we finalized > YANG 1.1. When we started YANG 1.1, there were only a few YANG modules around with = little practical use, so nobody really cared. The situation is now very = different. =20 Not that different. The IETF does not value stability that much. Maybe customer expectations are different, but some of us have to follow = 2 simple rules: =20 - Whatever works SHALL continue to work=20 - If you changed how it works, you broke it (even if you fixed it) =20 Some customers even think they should be able to upgrade from any = existing version to any new version, and these rules still hold. Therefore every change in server behavior = must be "opt-in" by the vendor and maybe the client as well. Instead of automatically upgrading because of = course you want the spiffy new features, vendors want the behavior to stay exactly the same (unless = they choose to change it). =20 There is no real need for YANG 1.2 unless and until NBC changes need to = be made, and we try to avoid doing that. =20 =20 Lada =20 =20 Andy =20 > > While a collection of patches (updates) of YANG 1.1 may sound simpler, > I am not sure this is really true. We will loose a common baseline and > instead get complexity since we will get systems that all support > different sets of patches (updates) of YANG 1.1. I believe we are all > much better off if we have a common baseline language and tools that > support the common baseline language. Again, if done right, YANG next > will mostly affect compiler writers and tool makers and not so much > module authors and implementors. > > /js > > --=20 > Juergen Schoenwaelder Jacobs University Bremen gGmbH > Phone: +49 421 200 3587 Campus Ring 1 | 28759 Bremen | Germany > Fax: +49 421 200 3103 --=20 Ladislav Lhotka=20 Head, CZ.NIC Labs PGP Key ID: 0xB8F92B08A9F76C67 ------=_NextPart_001_046D_01D5420A.8B2658F0 Content-Type: text/html; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

We already = have some RFCs and drafts that propose extensions that would/could go = into YANG 1.2.=C2=A0 I would like to have an =E2=80=9Cofficial=E2=80=9D = agreement/document/wiki that lists what is planned to go into 1.2 = whenever it happens. That would help us to have a platform that contains = a well defined set of additions beyond YANG 1.1.

Regards Balazs

 

From: = netmod <netmod-bounces@ietf.org> On Behalf Of Andy = Bierman
Sent: 2019. j=C3=BAlius 24., szerda = 10:10
To: Juergen Schoenwaelder = <j.schoenwaelder@jacobs-university.de>; Andy Bierman = <andy@yumaworks.com>; NETMOD WG = <netmod@ietf.org>
Subject: Re: [netmod] YANG = next

 

 

 

On = Wed, Jul 24, 2019 at 6:52 AM Ladislav Lhotka <lhotka@nic.cz> = wrote:

Juergen Schoenwaelder <j.schoenwaelder@jacobs-university.de> = writes:

> On Tue, Jul 23, 2019 at 02:00:29PM -0400, Ladislav = Lhotka wrote:
>>
>> This problem is actually not = limited to YANG itself - people are reporting
>> problems with = the transition to NMDA.
>>
>
> The YANG update = from 1 to 1.1 mostly affected compiler writers - and
> to a much = lesser extend module authors and module implementors. NMDA,
> = affects client and server implementors much more directly, = additional
> instrumentation on the server side needs to be = written, application
> logic on the client side needs to be = adjusted. NMDA is an evolution of
> architectural principles and = this already indicates that there is a
> certain investment to = make.

But both updates induced some changes in YANG modules that = affect users and integrators. Take ietf-ospf module as an example: it is = of course a great addition to the YANG module collection, but in order = to use it, all tools have to support

- YANG 1.1, e.g. because of = the special XPath functions, and

- NMDA, because otherwise state = data are missing.

Despite the fact that YANG 1.1 and NMDA are = undoubtedly improvements, users may get frustrated if lazy authors = (including myself) don't update their tools in a timely = manner.

>
> If we discuss YANG next, we should compare = it to the YANG 1 to 1.1
> transition and not to the NMDA = transition. When we started YANG 1.1

Both types of changes may = have similar effects on YANG users.

> work, there were people = who said that nobody would implement it. But
> then = implementations were adopted relatively fast when we finalized
> = YANG 1.1.

When we started YANG 1.1, there were only a few YANG = modules around with little practical use, so nobody really cared. The = situation is now very different.

 

Not that different.

The IETF does not value stability that = much.

Maybe customer = expectations are different, but some of us have to follow 2 simple = rules:

 

   - Whatever works SHALL continue to = work 

   - = If you changed how it works, you broke it (even if you fixed = it)

 

Some customers even think they should be able to = upgrade from any existing version to any new = version,

and these rules = still hold. Therefore every change in server behavior must be = "opt-in" by the vendor and

maybe the client as well. Instead of automatically = upgrading because of course you want the = spiffy

new features, = vendors want the behavior to stay exactly the same (unless they choose = to change it).

 

There is no real need for YANG 1.2 unless and until = NBC changes need to be made,

and we try to avoid doing = that.

 

 

Lada

 

 

Andy

 

>
> While a collection of patches (updates) = of YANG 1.1 may sound simpler,
> I am not sure this is really = true. We will loose a common baseline and
> instead get complexity = since we will get systems that all support
> different sets of = patches (updates) of YANG 1.1. I believe we are all
> much better = off if we have a common baseline language and tools that
> support = the common baseline language. Again, if done right, YANG next
> = will mostly affect compiler writers and tool makers and not so = much
> module authors and implementors.
>
> = /js
>
> --
> Juergen Schoenwaelder    =        Jacobs University Bremen gGmbH
> Phone: = +49 421 200 3587         Campus Ring 1 | 28759 = Bremen | Germany
> Fax:   +49 421 200 3103    =      <https://www.jacobs-university.de/>

-- =
Ladislav Lhotka
Head, CZ.NIC Labs
PGP Key ID: = 0xB8F92B08A9F76C67

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netmod@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 561281202BB for ; Wed, 24 Jul 2019 07:31:16 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.998 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.998 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_NONE=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (1024-bit key) header.d=hq.sk Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id B_DEKMnwq7MG for ; Wed, 24 Jul 2019 07:31:13 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail.hq.sk (hq.sk [81.89.59.181]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher AECDH-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 8996B12032C for ; Wed, 24 Jul 2019 07:31:13 -0700 (PDT) Received: from nitebug.nitenet.local (46.229.239.158.host.vnet.sk [46.229.239.158]) by mail.hq.sk (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 88E66241ED3; Wed, 24 Jul 2019 16:31:11 +0200 (CEST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/simple; d=hq.sk; s=mail; t=1563978671; bh=AAonTGpP3BeCoCQQvfl/MwyCm1dQPHcW80Ltd/9+8Qg=; h=Subject:To:References:From:Date:In-Reply-To; b=PFV6gnXgSIR2xUe+Kj6ZW14r/HXWqoxPDFSmwyThoJY2zZPURNDepdU70bBESOsoJ lEWEzzcqRoSmGvcvgxIaQs44Du0BBJ0bsD7n/UXbNBBS4cvCUxuWxAW60iP/PD4qAv ou2JcW4gPrT4GYnMpumYZJNzMoxdgH7z1I4rW3c0= To: Juergen Schoenwaelder , Andy Bierman , NETMOD WG References: <02c4110737b4ff23f966e6153fad764f04436089.camel@nic.cz> <20190723182304.5yrp54q26zhv7uvb@anna.jacobs.jacobs-university.de> <87sgqvlevh.fsf@nic.cz> From: Robert Varga Openpgp: preference=signencrypt Message-ID: Date: Wed, 24 Jul 2019 16:31:05 +0200 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; Linux x86_64; rv:60.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/60.8.0 MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: <87sgqvlevh.fsf@nic.cz> Content-Type: multipart/signed; micalg=pgp-sha512; protocol="application/pgp-signature"; boundary="kvMNW74H50cENThB8hQcm604mcGZnPi8S" Archived-At: Subject: Re: [netmod] YANG next X-BeenThere: netmod@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: NETMOD WG list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 24 Jul 2019 14:31:21 -0000 This is an OpenPGP/MIME signed message (RFC 4880 and 3156) --kvMNW74H50cENThB8hQcm604mcGZnPi8S Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="bPh0zuYEe9CIzuYRrJWM3JkNRLSz7TxVu"; protected-headers="v1" From: Robert Varga To: Juergen Schoenwaelder , Andy Bierman , NETMOD WG Message-ID: Subject: Re: [netmod] YANG next References: <02c4110737b4ff23f966e6153fad764f04436089.camel@nic.cz> <20190723182304.5yrp54q26zhv7uvb@anna.jacobs.jacobs-university.de> <87sgqvlevh.fsf@nic.cz> In-Reply-To: <87sgqvlevh.fsf@nic.cz> --bPh0zuYEe9CIzuYRrJWM3JkNRLSz7TxVu Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Language: en-US Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable On 24/07/2019 15:51, Ladislav Lhotka wrote: > Despite the fact that YANG 1.1 and NMDA are undoubtedly improvements, u= sers may get frustrated if lazy authors (including myself) don't update t= heir tools in a timely manner. Well, honestly, YANG 1.1, while compatible when viewed from the perspective of a client processing XML, has a different metamodel than YANG 1.0. One example for all: YANG 1.0 metamodel did not require multiple inheritence anywhere, whereas YANG 1.1 requires it to deal with 'base' being '0..n' instead of '0..1'. While it is a relatively simple change on the surface, making it happen in a software ecosystem (with API stability guarantees, release cycles, etc.) does frustrate users even in presence of non-lazy authors (who also get frustrated)... Regards, Robert --bPh0zuYEe9CIzuYRrJWM3JkNRLSz7TxVu-- --kvMNW74H50cENThB8hQcm604mcGZnPi8S Content-Type: application/pgp-signature; name="signature.asc" Content-Description: OpenPGP digital signature Content-Disposition: attachment; filename="signature.asc" -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- iQI/BAEBCgApFiEEdj+N7pgGP1gKvbdQJKB0S2uuNdsFAl04a6kLHG5pdGVAaHEu c2sACgkQJKB0S2uuNdteWQ/8Dc3KYfP2ABNiRjerhlRBh2SbSVf4aA/lL1nXd6ye J565/f+sNmQKo4u8H2uzgDBYtU4gJLSKQTUSnBAmvhkTAAETTKvP5uABWqStInvU zb0WKF4Q4G+kmWiadq6Eq8p9vwTh3PvKRbwDdmAU3AQ1gL3SB4YetMMcb1oG46gG AK1tuF8Q/iVsApKkln+StnIl6y6VKS602gGydW8CtXali89Vns/++smdoKSPa1ND kPD5p8atoW6Ihzve0A2AVnv/jtG3fUXzdpVWwxg6BkNfHMZvQyztthXa1vefR6Ze d9T8zKWWkFGIaUgvio/smjWHQM6dwZI8COnu2UsJtdkGWYsWS1DmAdbLUJgchEqp x+cP/SYcDoIgDFuZhuncUXKSwmOuy2KMEltQlZCDK6PNdv4xmDyoT1hkOs69B3yx TIHfTy96gDNj3pWjpMbHyccWByVGBdezozMZTNu/yeeOtlnh2YXzl94vw3hZXlVT yeztW7kjEUqUV+pWv516m5/PCI5tgrVe3DjSmHvD8sFv6W+JP2m18Dsg5/kdrq4+ BOpTpD0G9AE1IYivfho4WFsgPNjaMZ3udLlSO2U6yzvaKjRqy1ncFOs/n4FaGvwu kWFXDUhL25XDh1+qcEL47vBvlbVmdsgnlemRRv/RsWzh/0FOM53sBxmbNtAAxQah 7kg= =7nId -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --kvMNW74H50cENThB8hQcm604mcGZnPi8S-- From nobody Wed Jul 24 07:34:01 2019 Return-Path: X-Original-To: netmod@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: netmod@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id C9D8B120288 for ; Wed, 24 Jul 2019 07:33:54 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.998 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.998 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_NONE=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (1024-bit key) header.d=hq.sk Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id y19gjQhkc2A4 for ; Wed, 24 Jul 2019 07:33:53 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail.hq.sk (hq.sk [81.89.59.181]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher AECDH-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id EC1381202F9 for ; Wed, 24 Jul 2019 07:33:52 -0700 (PDT) Received: from nitebug.nitenet.local (46.229.239.158.host.vnet.sk [46.229.239.158]) by mail.hq.sk (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 71176242985; Wed, 24 Jul 2019 16:33:51 +0200 (CEST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/simple; d=hq.sk; s=mail; t=1563978831; bh=wvTTjrs3pNybNG0eDBW2T1zYfeIiYV3t8PIBXWpSGt4=; h=Subject:To:Cc:References:From:Date:In-Reply-To; b=JtJRTg6g9V5ZHehw6U2UR0j3aK9fyVHVYwvO0xfaGZ2uxzz/X0vqlrk2QuXqZhry7 vHRm6zZfyqJTemVb2jJ39Wtus49L6uBgLHp5wZUFENhRV2Ig6qNAIq9KW7TYXcZ4vg JQXhKEUAzkAmGOKcRyJ2HmfEKzFmgFcoMM23KRX4= To: Ladislav Lhotka , Andy Bierman Cc: NETMOD WG References: <02c4110737b4ff23f966e6153fad764f04436089.camel@nic.cz> From: Robert Varga Openpgp: preference=signencrypt Message-ID: <856cce29-f524-be31-b5e5-bcb679721e9a@hq.sk> Date: Wed, 24 Jul 2019 16:33:51 +0200 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; Linux x86_64; rv:60.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/60.8.0 MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: Content-Type: multipart/signed; micalg=pgp-sha512; protocol="application/pgp-signature"; boundary="BfFyuG8qHZnoiRukFaovCrTCjU6VWWbZO" Archived-At: Subject: Re: [netmod] YANG next X-BeenThere: netmod@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: NETMOD WG list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 24 Jul 2019 14:33:59 -0000 This is an OpenPGP/MIME signed message (RFC 4880 and 3156) --BfFyuG8qHZnoiRukFaovCrTCjU6VWWbZO Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="Xf2iaHawuvdW7jgcmDFYEvAmpuMhe9vpA"; protected-headers="v1" From: Robert Varga To: Ladislav Lhotka , Andy Bierman Cc: NETMOD WG Message-ID: <856cce29-f524-be31-b5e5-bcb679721e9a@hq.sk> Subject: Re: [netmod] YANG next References: <02c4110737b4ff23f966e6153fad764f04436089.camel@nic.cz> In-Reply-To: --Xf2iaHawuvdW7jgcmDFYEvAmpuMhe9vpA Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Language: en-US Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable On 23/07/2019 23:43, Ladislav Lhotka wrote: >> So you want to work on YANG 1.2, but just the parts you want to change= ? ;-) > I am actually fine with not doing any changes to YANG 1.1 at all, excep= t perhaps > bug fixes. This doesn't necessarily mean closing the NETMOD WG, it woul= d IMO be > immensely useful to rewrite the language specification and remove NETCO= NF- and > XML-specific part. +1. There are plenty of ambiguities and NETCONF/XML pollution in the spec. Having the specifications in a DAG would be immensely useful :) Regards, Robert --Xf2iaHawuvdW7jgcmDFYEvAmpuMhe9vpA-- --BfFyuG8qHZnoiRukFaovCrTCjU6VWWbZO Content-Type: application/pgp-signature; name="signature.asc" Content-Description: OpenPGP digital signature Content-Disposition: attachment; filename="signature.asc" -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- iQI/BAEBCgApFiEEdj+N7pgGP1gKvbdQJKB0S2uuNdsFAl04bE8LHG5pdGVAaHEu c2sACgkQJKB0S2uuNduNsw//WFLn9Dfu2yrHLjf6+QdFQAYzZ1zAIBAW3esBvOq2 OYjlWtTPSxByvnUcILGbM3I+8rHydoRhTjCQgahQE0AYf1WdUqVeW0LEk+yiiIiI bNdJYdG5sg3gttCzmbN0M7qaRvn4v48M85Po2OmyAiTRQ8EYOiC7CaezA7SaPEeb +Ap/cTmHERud7MsAUrVi8fCfQ6Sa/IZ6XFwBmw+exGYq2hxhBfYYvvJPii/Lta51 Moko3chRm1ek39tBzxfV/2Kvmj9kLwt5SR3KOXlTM6vm5VwBbJ8lq2U4u6tPXnEV PWT4d9nj+ULTkbOvC92FjpKUl8qgKyp4GwRPCx4wjTpV5MDdEzvB7eiOlOkotQ0c EU2CicPoxJDtEw+6zMpgwsR25V0LIQPi17Z85bkg41tNqFUWhAdncMa4qUhvIOBu YJP688Ow/Pi1J42dRdJNEP44f1vkzOaXaD19z9icI3XZGUEbrfVvnLMflXHgRXYu uqOWPKwSzwrRngP/cIS/pthhvEuTHleBdw4ZjnCLjhZ/6FMA2vLCTJ+aVeYWUY8e +sBnNZfJoXGUhVXVzhxMXqBq6Zp39p4lS7OZHVyUFoBh/MzN3NvK5PttalXB5wn5 n39SgLZsEQVTn1FZyCeEtsMSSsu2xOaY63hLRog5dEtaXtihuim8OA3AdmZpYPjv PDU= =s21M -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --BfFyuG8qHZnoiRukFaovCrTCjU6VWWbZO-- From nobody Wed Jul 24 08:12:12 2019 Return-Path: X-Original-To: netmod@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: netmod@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 77EF5120389 for ; 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Wed, 24 Jul 2019 09:11:02 -0600 (MDT) Received: from box313.bluehost.com ([69.89.31.113]) by cmsmtp with ESMTP id qIuzhfRBJGx2GqIuzhZHO5; Wed, 24 Jul 2019 09:11:02 -0600 X-Authority-Reason: nr=8 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; q=dns/txt; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=labn.net; s=default; h=Content-Transfer-Encoding:Content-Type:MIME-Version:Date: Message-ID:Subject:From:To:Sender:Reply-To:Cc:Content-ID:Content-Description: Resent-Date:Resent-From:Resent-Sender:Resent-To:Resent-Cc:Resent-Message-ID: In-Reply-To:References:List-Id:List-Help:List-Unsubscribe:List-Subscribe: List-Post:List-Owner:List-Archive; bh=0hJ8VglVwN2WcjEp/5kDVdvBzrUquHRiYWt4nz/VyRo=; b=A9DU4U/fBBy+NDd1EysKCzvvcK B4frg0yBJ65SVE1FhSmNq5CHICQHdKIGXELwFlsWL8mnG8adHSX7D+JzRrVCVUN1Zz6jE49CWvikF EpRiUCNGhcGU6R6OizjxliGHP; Received: from [127.0.0.1] (port=41313 helo=[IPv6:::1]) by box313.bluehost.com with esmtpsa (TLSv1.2:ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256:128) (Exim 4.92) (envelope-from ) id 1hqIuz-003XpT-9R for netmod@ietf.org; Wed, 24 Jul 2019 09:11:01 -0600 To: NetMod WG From: Lou Berger Message-ID: <867bb530-e32c-10d1-1939-4abd5241c83e@labn.net> Date: Wed, 24 Jul 2019 11:10:57 -0400 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 10.0; WOW64; rv:60.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/60.3.1 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Content-Language: en-US X-AntiAbuse: This header was added to track abuse, please include it with any abuse report X-AntiAbuse: Primary Hostname - box313.bluehost.com X-AntiAbuse: Original Domain - ietf.org X-AntiAbuse: Originator/Caller UID/GID - [47 12] / [47 12] X-AntiAbuse: Sender Address Domain - labn.net X-BWhitelist: no X-Source-IP: 127.0.0.1 X-Source-L: Yes X-Exim-ID: 1hqIuz-003XpT-9R X-Source: X-Source-Args: X-Source-Dir: X-Source-Sender: ([IPv6:::1]) [127.0.0.1]:41313 X-Source-Auth: lberger@labn.net X-Email-Count: 3 X-Source-Cap: bGFibm1vYmk7bGFibm1vYmk7Ym94MzEzLmJsdWVob3N0LmNvbQ== X-Local-Domain: yes Archived-At: Subject: [netmod] Raw notes from IETF105 X-BeenThere: netmod@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: NETMOD WG list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 24 Jul 2019 15:11:57 -0000 Taken from Etherpad (very sparse!) https://etherpad.ietf.org/p/notes-ietf-105-netmod Also from youtube:     Session 1 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jf86dU5XHbI     Session 2 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9k7qggWAS5o *INSTRUCTIONS*: Please find the related presentation slot below and add/correct notes there. Please DO NOT add notes at the end or beginning. *NOTE TAKERS ADD YOUR NAMES HERE*(not required): > Agenda for the NETMOD WG Session in IETF 105 > -------------------------------------------- > > Two Sessions:  (back to back, different rooms) > >    Monday Afternoon >    Session 1: 13:30-15:30        in Viger (2nd floor) >    Session 2: 15:50-17:50        in Duluth (2nd floor) > > WG Chairs: (sorted by last name) > >   Lou Berger   (lberger at labn dot net) >   Joel Jaeggli (joelja at bogus dot com >   Kent Watsen  (kent plus ietf at watsen dot net) > > Available During Session: > >    Etherpad: https://etherpad.ietf.org/p/notes-ietf-105-netmod >    Slides: https://datatracker.ietf.org/meeting/105/session/netmod >    Meetecho: http://www.meetecho.com/ietf105/netmod/ >    Jabber:        xmpp:netmod@jabber.ietf.org?join >    Audio Stream: >      - for Session 1:http://mp3.conf.meetecho.com/ietf/ietf1058.m3u >      - for Session 2:http://mp3.conf.meetecho.com/ietf/ietf1052.m3u > > Available Post Session: > >    Recording: https://www.ietf.org/audio/ietf105/ >    YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/user/ietf/playlists > > > Introduction >   Chairs (10 minutes) >   Session Intro & WG Status  Action: chairs should lead discussions to close existing errata. > Chartered Items: > >   Robert Wilton (0-20 minutes) >   Resolve Potential Issues from Last Calls > https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-netmod-intf-ext-yang-07 > https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-netmod-sub-intf-vlan-model-05 Rob Wilton: should we include histogram stats now or do it in a seperate document Tim Carry: advice is a concern, dependable ranges would be better Rob Wilton: Have standard sizes for non-jumbo frames Joel J: existing values have historical meanings but may not be tied to specific specifications.  May end up with lots of different values. Getting a good list beyond what is listed seems very risky. Better to stick with non-jumbo list. Vladimir Vassilev: Would be good to have input/output unicast/multicast counters.  Would prefer to not add counters to this draft. Rob: (polling WG) * Who thinks we should include histogram statistic information in this document? (Very few) * Who thinks we should *not* include histogram statistic information in this document? (significantly more, but still not a big number) * Who thinks histogram statistic information should be added to a new document? (a few) Rob: I'll coordinate with IEEE 802.3 on this topic and report back their view on IETF standardizing >   Balazs Lengyel (10 minutes) >   YANG Instance Data File Format > https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-netmod-yang-instance-file-format-03 Lada: Would prefer metadata stored as module information Lou: How many think should keep as is in document? * How many think informatin should be added to modules? * Lou: Authors please raise this question on the list. Balazs: Ready for last call Joel: Will move to last call once resolve question on metadata Lada: Current approach of using the new yang library seems very complex Rob Wilton: Could list moudules more simply Vladimir: the new yang library is very complex >   Qin Wu (10 minutes) >   Factory Default Setting > https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-netmod-factory-default-02 > >   Alex Clemm or Yingzhen Qu (10 minutes, likely remote) >   Comparison of NMDA datastores > https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-netmod-nmda-diff-02 > Design Team Items: > >   Robert Wilton and Joe Clark (50 minutes) >   NETMOD Versioning Design Team Update > https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-netmod-yang-versioning-reqs-01 > https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-verdt-netmod-yang-solutions-01 > https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-verdt-netmod-yang-module-versioning-00 > Non-Chartered Items:  (Some of these may overflow to 2nd session) > >   Robert Wilton (15 minutes) >   YANG Packages > https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-rwilton-netmod-yang-packages-01 >   Reshad Rahman (15 minutes) >   YANG Schema Version Selection > https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-wilton-netmod-yang-ver-selection-00 >   Michael Wang (10 minutes) >   A YANG Data model for Policy based Event Management > https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-wwx-netmod-event-yang-02 Joel: How many have read (a few) * How many interested in topic? (more) * How many interested in working on this topic? (enough) Will take adoption to the list. >   Ran Tao (10 minutes, remote or Qin) >   NMDA Base Notification for Intent based configuration update > https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-wu-netmod-base-notification-nmda-03 > List discussion >  Qin Wu >  NMDA Protocol Transition Issue Discussion > https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/netmod/CYMK1cdLp5byiAkwDjaBngcTDQo https://datatracker.ietf.org/meeting/105/materials/slides-105-netmod-sessb-nmda-protocol-transition-issue-discussion-03 From https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jf86dU5XHbI it looks like people are slowly coming in from lunch it is now 1:30 which is time to start someone doesn't mind shutting the back doors welcome to Montreal and net Mon I'm Lou burger Kent Watson build ugly with me my co-chairs the meeting material is in the usual spots we are doing etherpad also you can see the etherpad link which somehow drifted to the bottom you can also find that off the tools page please join in and help us capture what's being said at the mic it comments on the mic and responses we don't need to capture everything that said in the slides that is not go to the next page aha we are at the IETF which means we have rules that govern our participation you can find that under our note well this is a summary of that those rules if you're interested in are unfamiliar with them please go to that URL WWI 80s org about note well that HTML that also give you a pointer to the governing documents since we are Monday it's worth taking a look at that make sure you're familiar with that as usual we're doing video streaming as well as audio streaming and recording please make sure you state your name if you come to the mic that's very important for those who are remote as well as anyone taking notes I will be jumping on jabber if there's a people who are willing to jump on jabber and to help channel those who may be remote we appreciate that I think we have had an agenda change I'll talk about that a moment we are we we wanted two and a half hours because we thought two hours was a little tight we try to squeeze into that because we asked for two hours that pump this into a second slot which means we have a lot more time than that so in theory we're here to almost 6 o'clock that seems like a long time from now I don't doubt that we'll use off of time that said we haven't added a couple of topics that we think are useful use of the working groups time and I'll show that at the moment one important note when we go from this room to the next room there's no coffee break actually more importantly is we are moving rooms but we're just moving one room to the right when between the sessions we've organized the agenda just by laying it out in terms of anticipated amount of time on each topic since we do have extra time we're not going to we're going to be a little flexible and how long each topic goes if we're having good conversation we're not going to break that break that which means that we're not exactly sure what what's going to line up with the session brain so we're just going to go in the order that's on in the published agenda and that's captured here this this slide is unchanged this says the agenda is unchanged the design team items aren't change the non-charter items are promotes previously been published but we've added a topic that's come up on some it came up on the list and there's been some more private discussion related to it but we think it's a good good topic for the work talked about and that's sort of how to deal with some of these MN NMDA transition issues so we'll be hitting that at the end of the at our agenda if there's other topics we can probably and discussed publicly on the list we're happy to take those also wash laniel Eric's on can you say a few words about what's up with yang next so there's the no update to yang next since the last ITF meeting where we have met I think primarily I asked I think the main issue is we don't have someone to drive the discussion in particular folks are probably looking at me not just because in the front of the room but because I had coordinated several of those meetings before to do that but at the moment I don't have a bandwidth to actually drive those discussions much less even coordinate the meetings to for the discussions to be had I did ask someone to do that but they also had not really signed up to do that and so that's where we're at right now it's just sort of a limbo waiting for someone to have the bandwidth to actually drive the discussions so the bottom line is that there's been no progress since last meeting yeah I also think that the design team activity that we're gonna hear about is probably taking a bunch of attention from those who might also participate in the egg next site my personal view not as someone who is contributing to that work my personal view is ones that the current design team winds down there may be some more energy so we've had some nice progress since the last meeting we have a couple of new RFC's it's always good to see those wherever that is why we're here it's not to have good discussions well that we appreciate that it's actually to produce these documents we have one document that is on its way to the isg and another one that I was hoping to push submit on but if we need an update published unless I missed it today which is possible although you know Kent is such a slacker he only had a chair another meeting this morning so he was one who needs to push okay so maybe we'll have it this week but as soon as that happens art book artwork folding will be submitted it was the real it's really some minor things related to copyright from what the trust requests on in for code segments and there's a code segment in this document so that that kind of paid it as soon as that is published we'll see each other we have a couple of documents that are not on the interface extension is on yeah so I feel like we had something else but geolocation is definitely not on the agenda I warned him I was gonna put him on the spot I guess he decided not be here there was a little bit of a discussion on the list about geolocation it looks like the bat is getting pretty close to being done so if you have opinions on it be really good to get that robust and I think we got the updated yang types is believe maybe double it's not on the agenda was on that's the one in fact it's listed right here to mention so thanks for that appreciate that so at the last meeting we had an update on these gang types and we were actually hoping to move that document through really quickly and we haven't seen an update uragan is online and if he feels like mentioning something but we're really gated by the author's pushing that pillar seeing that one in q2 that slide I feel like I should return the center control so so we don't take it all right thanks duplicated so there's been a recent discussion on the list about an errata and then we realized there's actually a whole slew of virata's that we really haven't verified as a working group now technically the aetyi is the one who verifies an errata but generally the ADEs take input from the working group so we think it's worthwhile to go through each of these we're not going to go through each of them now but we think it is worthwhile to go through each of these as individuals as the working group and agree on what we think the right answer is of whether or not these should be verified or not now I think we had a couple of them that we had identified it being to be objective there's only one listed here I thought we had listed two which you can see is as an errata lodged against RC 7950 that received significant discussion on the list fairly recently we think that should be rejected as well and the other one that should be rejected we took a look at and it's actually a technical change and one thing to keep in mind is is that if you see something in a RFC and would like to modify the behavior of that RFC such that others implement that change behavior the right way to do that is in a disc or a new RFC that updates the existing RFC you can't do a technical change through a neuron so this is asking for that particular one that's being rejected is asking for a substantive technical change that would impact all implementations of the document I mean it's just adding a default so it's not like a controversial thing but you just can't do that technical type of technical change and they Iran just by our process so that's something to keep in mind it is going to be important that we go through each of these and as a work group have a response will probably push that as chairs that if there isn't something that has a clear discussion on the other 157 84 which is the recent discussion clearly that's gonna we think that's gonna be rejected will close the conversation if it's not otherwise closed if you have opinions on these we would like to hear them we can hear them right now if you came prepared to talk about any amendments dro last if you have not we can take it to us any comments okay that appears to be the last one in this package so we're going to move on to Bob and talking about blocks all [Applause] yes sorry don't eat repeat that was okay okay so more reviews please then are saying that one of the issues has been raised by EC I've had verbal comment from him yesterday I think he's happy but we'll discuss that today and then a separate issue raised on him - not on or not related to this document but more generally but I'm proposing and we discuss and have a potential change to this draft for that so the issue that AC raised here I mean his actual text is there but basically he's saying the RFC 36:35 defined a load of Ethernet like counters statistics and maybe we should include a subset of those into this draft and in particular he noted that this draft has one counter for or for reporting destination map drops but none of the other ones there well there's some sort of background history to this and that's really that we looked at that RC another one we looked at the current a third like mabe and I looked at the 80223 manageability interface Clause 30 and I had a spreadsheet that I liked that effectively correlated these different counters and things and the upshot of all of that is that the vast majority of the counters that AC was asking for either included in the 802 3.2 which is the yang model a 2.3 that standardized by Triple E or all they regarded as being effectively obsolete counters and we don't want to carry them forward um but there were two exceptions to that the the aren't included in there that worth discussing the first one is whether we want to add a sub interface d-max drop counter so this would be on the trunk parent interface is if you've got many sub interfaces they're each classifying traffic in different ways and a frame comes in that can't be classified to any sub interface and you drop it we don't currently have a drop counter for that I think that might be worth adding in these my opinion so that's relatively easy to add in a think is that anyone has an opinion on that or is opposed to that okay if not I'll assume I'll add it in and that's fine that's fairly easy then the the second one is more interesting it's about the ethernet histogram statistics and that's this is what they look like so this is defined in one of the existing MIPS or RFC's I think is a breakdown of the number of packets received based on the length of that frame come that came in and what's sort of interesting here is that this has been set up to accommodate single tank frames or in fact that actually is might include CRC bytes so or untied frames and when you get to these boundaries then it gets a bit trickier where you have like queueing queue or double friend and double VLAN tags packets and also the 80223 has a interesting view of how you handle jumbo frames so I don't think they specifically disallowed but I don't think either the spectra T sort of wants to talk about them or standardize them where is you want to fill out this table properly you want to go up to about 9k as well here's a long and proud tradition of not standardizing the larger frame sizes okay well I did get a comment from them about it but anyway still so when in discussion with them they included in the standard drops so there there be classified as a shorts in two separate counts for 64 byte there's this did this counters for a comment with the name of it there's there's layton there is a 64 one as well but it's not included in this set because it's already specific counter for frames that size I think so when there's discussion when we do the work with 80 2.3 and I didn't follow that through all the way to the end I was involved with in the early parts of that as I say him they didn't really want to standardize these histogram counters and various issues and then the other sort of issue that comes up is that because there hasn't been a good standard here that goes to these higher ranges that different vendors hardware does different things they choose different bucket sizes so you can't really usefully define these bucket sizes and expect people to Rev they're raised external support that doesn't make sense so there was a proposal may be that we could standardize this in is part of ITF instead and the suggestion is David law so the chair of three I don't know how I'm not sure what they would hit but it might be easy for me to email him directly first and then see and I actually think yes so this came out of effectively the discussions when I City 92.3 young discussions so that's where this came up and that was the session at the time that that might be a way of getting around the rules pragmatically so so basically the proposal here is that you could and rather having strict bucket definitions we could return a list of bucket entries and where each bucket entry defines what the range is covering and low and high end inclusive and accounts the packets that match that bucket range so it's a bit more of a both in terms of the data model but it's more flexible at the same time we would give recommendations in the description to say we recommend you choose these bucket sizes so and trying to sort of encourage heading towards a consistency somewhere so I had the question is do I have these in now or can be deferred so I think the question is do we try and do this now in this working room last call at all or if we do want to try and do this I can speak to David law and find out whether he's happy for us to do this I'm fact if I can knock it up and say that this is what it would look like but that's my question is is this the right time to even trying to do this that's maybe a question to the chairs there in the working room care I don't know on this specific one yeah I don't know one that I think probably he would I don't know he had an EP know with trying to lay this worked to finish that's awful not so tim carry nokia so the question I would really have is that those those sizes that were there were therefore identified for various reasons right you know for for good reasons at the time right and so the the question is is and they have tools and tests that that go around that right and so what we said is okay we're gonna provide some you know abstraction if you will or ability to do some meta work on that such that we can you know define the ranges themselves and then provide some guidelines to two different pieces the problem is that when you say you have a guideline now you don't have anything that you can standardize that I as a client and I as a server can really agree upon I just deal with section so I can't guarantee that certain servers that would implement these things would implement say packet size 256 through 511 so I can't really rely on that right I have to use a a mechanism may be an operator has to get involved in stuff like that so that's the biggest certain that I have of using you know the extract portion of this is that you've lost now the first class Ness of oil that of that range that people can depend upon when they're a client so it's a good point my aim is not to change these bucket sizes here so that's not what I'm trying to change I think everyone who implements these will implement at least these bucket size yes people that are implementing things that might not know that they need implement those specific sizes yeah that's the problem that I have it's the ones that bigger than that these the ones that are go up to like 2k for kak those the ones where and especially around that 15 14 15 18 by bucket size you get more in consistency right so my question is is that where where do we put a user is there a place is a place where we would put ranges that if they do implement those that would be able to provide a normative stance to it right yeah that's the thing that maybe it's an identity maybe it's something to that nature yeah maybe right yes okay yeah yeah Joel yeagley um I definitely see the existing values as being a product of historical decisions that were made in the I Triple E like I mean you know when you decide that you need something bigger than fifteen hundred because you added a VLAN tag right that is a specific historical decisions like there's a lot of increments that you could come up with above 1500 that have various kinds of historical meaning but are not specifically like anchored to I Triple E standards so you you're going to end up with like you know 15 19 to 15 for T and then 15:40 to say 44 70 and then you know uh nine thousand nine thousand fourteen ninety 190 120 and then every Ethernet vendor trolli specification up to there and then Intel 116 Kay because it's a round number right so like I actually see the likelihood of us getting a really like good list that goes above this as like English in a short period of time that the I triple you will go yeah that's cool as being pretty low so mmm maybe we shouldn't if from my vantage point maybe we shouldn't do that between the last call and hopefully when we take it to ITF last call all right that seems like a risky item to add to progressing this see just for clarity you saying it'd be best to shelve this affected a than that yeah I mean I think this is I think this is this is good enough like I mean from my vantage point is a jumbo frame user you know the there are Jumbo's or they aren't so but but that's that's that's my network like I don't I don't spend a lot of time distinguishing between the say that ninety one hundred byte packets and the nine thousand five packets because I know what my empty mem MTU is set to yeah right so for clarity these counters the ones you see here not defined in any yeah model today right so we don't have those at all so they so I trapeze shied away from putting these in for historical reasons because of where they need to get up to yes but these these sorts of boundaries exist these boundaries that we have here particularly the last one are very very specific to historical yeah precedent so like these seem uncontroversial like because they're kind of widely implemented and you know encounters that we already use right okay like so doing them in yang doesn't see that weird okay correct is that true I don't know I had to check whether I cut my movie if the I Triple E Ethernet management API the clause 30 defines counters for these it I sort of suspect it probably doesn't but it should have done okay but I guess the point is my point is if we there's no reason for us to add these counters if we're going to stop at 15 18 or 15 19 whatever that dad doesn't seem a good reason for why we would choose to do that because they're choosing not to standardize these counters they could have done these if they wanted to so if we want to do it we probably want to at least fix it so it works for other use cases higher so even if we define this we could have hard-coded counters for these ones and then the ability to define extra ones and people want them above that and give some recommendations of just doubling the size each time that's what I would do I'll do 15 20 then moved on which one thing is on different that people are starting to count more or jumbo frames I don't see any jumbo frames here and this Plus this whole concession yeah so because between 59 any around 1500s to with there are different numbers there they're different sizes and there are so many variations but then jumbo frames you know like the nine case one that is where they are really getting interested right that is he you know is it 9,000 9,000 190 191 2016 kay but like I would say anything about 1600 put it as a jumbo frame and you know but 1519 what we do if you have like 1520 to bid so we like put it up teen 1600 and anything about 1600 count as a jumbo frame but then most the point having these counselors told that I mean what's the point in history I'm cancers for everything below 1500 say or 1519 but not having them above seems like it gets in 2/3 information are the inflation's useful or is not so I can tell you from some debugging the MTU sizes into so many variants of the 1500 it is just really annoying and then the thing does work because the MTU size is just like a different number in your likes damn it and the 15 numbers they're all over the place yeah but they are always definitely below 1600 and then next question is oh are those jumbo frames what image most trans pocket I would to add to this discussion maybe we should also add pockets in and pockets out counter because this we don't have we have unicast and multicast pockets and for various reasons about farad just don't implement differentiation between unit costs and multicast pockets so really the the ITF interfaces model is impossible to implement on those devices there are many devices like open flow for example devices you cannot implement interfaces model for open for devices you cannot diplomatist or on reach through traffic generators and these are supposed to be flexible devices that you actually should not have any problem implementing the idea interfaces and I think I am against adding eternal specific counters in this draft maybe there should be another draft that should add them but this one should be kept as compact as possible I think now it's to watch already okay yeah so the John's your question about the total packet counts in and out I I could be mistaken I have a feeling that went into the a 2 2 dot 3.2 I think they might have a total package in and out so either that count I think should be neither at night if interfaces or it should be noted to do 3.2 you give me a look that's not the case but I'll double check but that's no more questions on that or comments and no it's the same thing yes well I think that I think we are at the end of these time to ask the question so the questions you want to ask effectively is who do we try and do this now do we defer is that the fair question you no harm or Powhatan so who thinks we should delay this and add these histogram counters in now which could be contentious who thinks I should do this now adding now adding the histogram counters that we do that though I seen two hands go up and down no one is holding their hands up is so very very few for the minutes whom how many think we should not now it's not a big number but it's clearly percentage-wise it's huge but so you know I think the sentiment of the room is to delay from my standpoint as chair given the level of discussion we're having what's that yeah that's the suppose we you know as chair and actually Sheppard's my view is the seems like a little contentious that ad now if it was important to add it we certainly should but I don't think it's critical yep specifically stating the opinion now because I'd like the ear of anyone in the working group disagrees with that so I think we're going to leave this meeting where we're not going to add the histogram counters including any event the ones each other so these are not going to show up in the document so if you disagree with that now is the time all right um can I can I ask one more question which is who thinks that we should try and stand ice if we don't do now as a separate draft or separate work item to try and standardize this and these counters in what something like it Joe Clark Cisco clarifying question do you mean standardized at the upper levels or just standardized on these buckets below 1520 I mean these on the upper levels as well coming whole range okay I think you should yeah sorry I mean sorry have bigger frame sizes higher numbers higher higher frame sizes sorry yes higher frame sizes I think this should be standardized because for the performance measurement and troubleshooting across a service topology having that information to be uniform and be able to calculate the histogram either you know at the service level effort you know is very helpful when you're trying to debug and troubleshoot the for automation okay so I propose that I try and email David law and say we think about doing this what does he think is that I mean then we'll go from there okay the MTU issue which I hope will be easier although MTU is always contentious contentious thing so there's a network thread titled question regarding rc8 three four four and those basically the premise of what came up there is I think that the Linux default loopback into you is six five five three six bytes long whereas the all the m2 use in the ITF models are limited to you in sixteen and in 65535 somebody pointed out that an IP layer having them to you above 65535 anyway and this model does define an L - M to you so it defines it into you across those protocols and these currently defined as a UN 16 the question is should we change this to you and 32 instead - specifically to cover this Linux live back into you case any thoughts on that opinion yeah definitely because different interfaces if you take out a do not take Jeff bigger number not only the Wako interface there are other interfaces well that the go above us I know you can also set it to megabyte right so like this actually help helps us solve that problem okay so that someone else does it brilliant okay so assuming movies against this then I'll just switch that to you and such - that's the last one so any other comments on the interface extension model in that mail that actually brought up that it was my mail to the group and that was in the end there was another suggestion in addition to the l2 MTU I think it makes sense to have MTU which is the MTU definition actually used by Linux like when you use the if' interfaces configuration any glimpse what you get is actually the NQ without the the header all together that's very important for most people who use Linux they are used to that value so this this has to be in the model I think and there is advantage when you when you define protocol configuration based on the ITA interfaces you want to know the the the pocket payload you can use so when you compare parameters you can when you are configuring other end to use if other protocols you can put a must statement there limiting the size of that end you to to that empty you so this makes a lot of sense to have it there and it's more elegant here just interfaces interface and to you kind of elegant l to empty you and especially the limitation of taking out the view on in the description statement creates complications because you have the moxx that actually just don't care about it it's a v1 edit or not the into you is the same register value so if you standardize this in the young model it will be difficult implemented like you won't have a future not sending but it's bigger than that sizing harder and you have this difference that a v1 edit should not be a problem it should go through you cannot do it with the existing hardware that's another point I I have about this so a general in empty you that corresponds to the Linux definition of MTU and is something that I proposed vladimir can you remind me your last name bacillus I see them so I'm nervous about that for several reasons one is that I think losing the l2m to your configuration value is probably a mistake I think there's lots of systems that use that as there is a configurable value on an interface so I think changing that to an l-3 MTU so payload m to you as you say would be probably a poor choice I think then the question is could you have both in coexisting but that would also you could you could probably allow either of the two to be configured potentially but I'm not sure how the constraints would work so if your constraint was against a payload based em to you but the user to configure than L to him to you then it wouldn't necessarily work I can certainly see how you can report both values in the operational state to say this is the the full frame MTU and this is what the payload LT payload em to you is that would be more feasible well my argument is that the paywall and view is what all the RFC is up to now in the eye idea for using yeah so it is strange that we are not going to have that end to you as part of that instead we are going to use l2 m2 which actually you can derive from the type of the interface if the interface is Ethernet there is no doubt what is the difference between the MTU and the l2 empty so why are we going to bound ourselves to the interfaces and the interface type is not going to be used as information source for that calculation it is going to create confusion s on this mailing list like this person was trying to configure NTU for the paywall thank you and he was confused that he cannot do that did you add confusion you are adding another empty which means something different from everything else that's buddy but again it is back to what the hardware will place often the hardware framers and things might place a single value and the value of everything is the l2 frame size not necessarily the IP or the l3 and the l2 payload so that's one complexity and in terms of the same discussions about historically might have standardized the l3 em to you they did do that they did that for LT VPN and they've ended up in a world of pain because of it so in the l2 pn specs the MTU negotiate across the wire is the payload m to you but you don't know what size those headers are so you can't easily agree that value is very hard to calculate when you want L to frame coming in to say well this amount of its headers without having to analyze the PAC you don't have tags on there so it's a very strange value to use so I'm still nervous of of moving something that's doing an l2 check to be using an L three values of configuration value I do get the Linux thing that's it's unusual it might be that that's a mistake in Linux for using that choice so I always struggle the tournelle to up to you okay I don't believe those are the revisited the term was used in the I Triple E and the question is better than you use the same term believe it says that its maximum frame size and distinguish the maximum frame size from the IP and typically the original definition of them to you I know people are using boost yep convinced we should be perpetuating that tend to you is the maximum size of the IP back that's the that's the definition of MTU that's my memory that's my memories is it's the maximum IP size and the the use here were in the document is saying L to UM to you you're including the L to headers and I think that's more back again though eager that terminology max rate size and it may be helpful I don't know well seems we may be helpful to use that term I can look at what's in a teacher of three is wrong but I mean in to use very standard he used and it doesn't mean different things in different places pretty unambiguous what that is all framing to you but I think you're moving away from tears and of course confusion to people because since we do it already and it does I think it's whatever we decide it should be either no worse than what we do now or less I'd like to see if there is any artsy anywhere that says L - M - you deal TV parents should but it doesn't my observe as an operator and maybe things have changed over the last couple of years where I haven't cared about interface configuration actually the MTU thing is very confused we have been well okay in the configuration languages it shows up as far as I remember and there are vendors that have different of interpretations between vendors there are vendors that have different interpretations regardless depending on the line of operating system running on the hardware and then my observation is that the usual the usual configuration is I remember it is kind of well okay a rough estimate anyway because I don't think I don't think I ever had an MTU configuration that was actually that was actually precise for limiting my MPLS MPLS label headers kind of so I would see two questions which well okay which concept is the model to be to address and yeah well okay certainly the previous question should the concept being addressed here appear to be at a precise one or a more on mirroring of the existing situation that well okay we only give a rough number and let let the ops people someday perhaps figure out that yes there is one MPLS label too much too many so there's there's different people different ways different people implement this on some OS is as you say you put give it an L 3 or LT payload MTU and then they add on some slop and then say anything that's between this is fine there's other ones that have a values like this l2 calculated and they will check that strictly so any frames above that size they'll drop it as an ingress Rob and that there's different approaches and as you say different vendors do different ways in different os's between the same vendors can do it different ways probably a precise layer to is the one thing that is conceptually easy it's going to backfire when it's it when it's going to run out in the configuration languages and into ops okay and it looks like there's two RFC's both from the same basically set of authors in the last year or so in that space that you talked about that you use the layer two of tu contacts I think for something that's so general we should not introduce it here but stick with figure out whether the previous RFC is help them to use maximum frame size I think that's probably the safer term and it's I'm not gonna say that we're gonna clarify we're gonna clean up the confusion because I think there but we won't make the worse yes nothing else I think by using the term layer to um to you that's partly okay and I'm sorry to see that that one okay so that was all the what questions are had on that the southern face this is also working group last call this one is much shorter in terms of what I've said to review support publication and no comments received as I say possibly that means that I could flawless but otherwise if if you interested it'd be useful to have a review even you're happy with how it stands now and this Palace worker Glasgow process I don't know when the work loss was meant to finish but we need more reason that said as Shepherd I'm not going to be able to look at this until at least next week and technically all the comments are closed you still have some comments that need addressing before will be ready to go and there's going to be an IDF last call that a people can spit comments to so rather than to be really strict about it I say if you have comments it's not too late to send them I will send out the formal last call being closed when I started when I have time to start processing it after the IDF hopefully you won't get comments after that but comment whatever it shows up we should try to address it yep and I'll say it again there's an opportunity because we do expect at least one update yes before we move it forward so we encourage anyone in the working group who has not recently read these documents to do so and if you have comments please send them by the way I did it rep on max frame size it shows up in a lot of documents Marsten Jeff bar Sonia from Ericsson this has been a new edition of this young instance date the draft yes second so the concept was that we have many use cases where we want to document instance data so not the models themselves but the actual values that integer strings and we want document them offline and potentially hand them out to customers or store them somewhere these are just some of the use cases I think there are seven or eight some of them are detailed in the document and it was decided that at least will needs a metadata about the instance data so when was it produced what models are documenting some administrative data like a name a description stuff and we at least need two formats XML and JSON so the draft was updated it received quite a number of comments close to the last IETF earlier the modules that define the content were called to target modules number of people didn't like that so now it's called content schema and one or two case where I have to refer to the individual modules then it's called content defining yang modules chain terminology and change wherever that came up in the inside the draft some people the yang instance data set itself has a name which most of the times is I think is needed some people insisted that they don't oh don't always want to have that so it became optional there were some up this draft is using the yang data and your yang structure is that it's now cooled it was updated according to that draft including yang trees and all that and there was a comment that entity tags and last modified the time stamps that are very quite useful in in rest conf are actually encoded in HTTP headers and we can't use HTTP headers in these two formats so now they are defined as metadata and if they are used they can be encoded as metadata and next so this is an example of an update the instance data set a few things are missing like an XML header because they didn't fit on the slide they are included in their examples in the draft but not here so here we have yeah concerning the previous slide about this entity tagging last modified does it does it mean that if you have a Content schema this content schema has to have some modules that they find these annotations or no no the the IETF instance data yang module defines these annotations because I can see of course a good use for many other annotation that can that are or they available or that may be defined in the future so I don't really see any need for because as you said currently this entity tech and last modified are used by by the Raskin server as a part of HTTP headers so I don't know if somebody wants to define it as as an innovation that that's fine but in this case this can be the same for any other annotation so I would suggest really to to require in this case to have some module defining entity tags and last modified s annotations and then you can use it normally in the content schema and using in the data I think they are quite useful bits of information and they're just doing a module to define these two tags when clearly we use them here I don't see the reason to split them out so they won't harm anyone they are obviously useful in my view I didn't want to define them because I thought the rest comfort handles that but as we can't use the restaurants and coding solution I like them but it seems it's very easy to remove them but I like them I go to again other any supporters of this this formulation in the draft currently so is there any reason why to handle these two annotations in in a specific way because these are well-defined bits of data and they are quite basic information for the content sometimes they are sometimes they aren't I can argue the same way about the origin annotation for example it's mentioned actually and the origin annotation I think is defined somewhere else so I don't need to redefine it can we ask them what are you saying you think that the instant file should not have time stamped or into the last modified no what I am saying is that we should treat these two or other annotations in in the same way and the proper way and neutral way is to define a yang module that defines these annotations and include it as as part of the content schema for for this instance data that's that's the normally published either in line or in any other way but it's it's done just just in a normal standard way rather than mentioning it's specifically in this human so if I understand that it would be an annotation right yes see it's a Seuss's question of what I was to find in this module or a separate module you're saying what I'm saying is that I would define a module that defines these two metadata annotations and to detect and last positive oregon as a separate module and then i would include this module in every in in every content schema for the data where this two annotations are of any use of course if if i have instant data that have no use of this last modified probably I would avoid having this module him in the stream do you see other uses for these annotations these specifically these two beside the cone ITF instance data are you asking about other annotation out for these two annotations are you see for seeing any other use I don't know it could be possibly used in net conf for example for me it's easy to remove it it's not critical for me as an author that we have these on we have these annotations in the yank file I am not only think at this point to start a new draft to do this of course it's not critical for me either but I think it's a bit I rent it as being sort of tunneling the metadata you get from the Netcom protocol or rest Tom protocol and so you were trying to add a parallel piece of information where you know we don't have a perp on the wire read before that night so it was it was parallel to that because that's not what I was thinking which is quite different from where a lot of sewing where it becomes part of the content what was for beer intent are you thinking more its content or metadata is the parallel that I think it's it's a Barolo what we have been the rest but I also agree with both of you is it's not a critical item my understanding was that it these annotations could be just attached to any and in instance noting in the data in an array right we are quite I want to be liberal what can be here so if you want other annotations they find wherever yes that's also possible of course that was my understanding I can have any hang no use being part of the content schema so why not why not any other annotations contributor I think a lot of what you're saying is in restaurant on the top-level node must have the e-tag and if modified tags Internode's may have them and so to your point any node may have them and so there's that but then separately was the question of why do they need to have this information in the instance file format like who would consume that what the use case behind that they would want to be with you consuming this data I think we should have that discussion on the list and and then we'll conclude whether or not it's important to define the now or later I don't know actually who could use it I think it's useful information yeah the use cases doesn't cover these tags at this point but my friend is that we needn't really care about use cases for these two annotations if somebody does have a use for them they can define this module defining the annotations and just go ahead and and use them so that's fine but it didn't be an issue for this document because it can accommodate any annotations yeah it's really the questions really that is it reasonable to have them defined here or we'll leave it to some later later point well if that ever happens that's a very very small so how many like the approach that draft right now interesting we see a few hands that were not raised before so I'm really confused by Roberts ago I'm not sure how important this data is so that's the point of view that don't really care that much either way the moment it just needs to be one sentence in the draft saying that these are done the same way as restaurant which is fairly minimal text I to getting ladders point about if we go to do weather why don't we do it generally but I still also see you could have this line in the draft saying this is how they're done and it still be done generically for anything else even these I'll say it's less then the first one none of these are statistically significant numbers but still it seems like there's a very very slight preference of room to stay as it is I would say it let's keep it but also ask the bank again on the list if people have any comments okay on this so I'm just looking down to see if there's anything from from jörgen says Iran other Arab support for annotations and have doubts that exposing HTTP internal metadata is terribly useful I doing the instant format is for all agnostic okay so to me he just said two things that are I don't think that let's say the last modified tag is HTTP specific that's datastore specific and data specific please okay so here is an example somewhat wrote an example of how this would look like the most interesting part here is that we have some metadata like the name provision description description in the description of the instance data set and then we have the specification of the content schema here we have an example where the content schema is specified in line first the yang library is used to say that the angle I bury module with format will be used to specify the content schema and then inline content schema really specifies that it's the Netcom faecium module that we are handling and this some more terrible it was nicer early originally so this is the content data that's the really thing that we wanted to communicate you can I don't know what happened with the site anyway can you skip back one more can you skip back okay so never mind here we okay here we have this in line from inline content schema definition there is also a possibility to just put a reference to the content schema if you don't want to repeat it for one in the case that you have I don't know diagnostic state data every five seconds then you don't want the converse schemer repeated every time and that's it and I think I would like to bring this to work group last calls but I was like can we have that one question one non-critical question as we agreed with low down on the earliest part of the last goal another question regarding this inline specification this seems you are now using the new yang library but I think that the idea is not to define like data stores and things like that that you only really need this module set yes so does it mean that you can use other parts of the nyra here or is it really restricted to this module surface you can use the yang library in the cone in the content part and here you could have parts for deviations and for features you I didn't actually put in text saying that you should not have text about I don't know datastore lists but they are kind of meaningless and unless the data stores can be meaningful if you specify which data store you are putting it which part of the yang library I think one question is whether we really need to have this flexibility of specifying different yang library revisions in Olin different ways of doing that because possibly we could use the old yang my brain everywhere and this this would do probably for this person purposefully also agree with you except that in the last round I got those explicit statement that you must use the new young library and even there that it should be possible to use something else beside the angle ivory so I was specifically asked for being flexible one more thing that's not visible in this example that here in the inline spec you might have other modules one thing that immediately comes to mind is the yank versioning where you could which augments the angle I bury with version label that could be useful here but I was asked to put in the flexibility and it doesn't disturb it seems to add a lot of complexities as you just said and in my opinion I am not sure if it's its complexity on the mailing list there was a I don't know I agree that it's not the complexity is bit too much but I was explicitly asked when the mailing list here again and maybe some others that we should have this flexibility reply to it you know raising the issue that a lot of that I think yes I wanted yes I don't want it Bob Wilson Cisco so I think almost three choices is what I prefer one is a very simple one which is just this is the list of the modules and their revisions and that defines the schema so without even needing the inline content schema just that list there's one choice the second one is what you've done here where you specify the what this schema is in that way and the third one is a remote schema I just see that here if you just want to return the data for one or two young modules listing them in line without with having less metadata boilerplate at the top of the file is probably beneficial but xx you tend to read these I don't agree with your first method sorry because this is a simple case you need to have a place for features supportive features you need to have a place for deviations and you also need to at least specify which version of the yang library you are using or which which that's a you say that you just want the list yeah you want to say what what who defines or what defines the format of that list so theists ways we already have one in yang library wide define a new one but then you have might have multiple versions of that you need to them so I'm not saying take away what you have here I'm saying add add another third option that's a simpler version of it that doesn't worry about deviations doesn't worry about features it's just the data that you're uploading you don't you could potentially just have the features enabled by default I think deviations and features are very but I I think they are needed you still express them using this format it's just having my questions really is on for some files if you have this boilerplate at the top of every file is that a good thing or not is it is it that actually is just noise and for the vast majority of cases that if you're just returning a couple of modules that you're doing it quite verbose way you might gain I don't know five lines but for but with the complexity that you have add some more modules and then if you have deviations or features then you had to add come back to this one so yeah you could add more I don't think it's needed just for a record I also think the new who are the me I also think the new young wire is overly complex for the purpose of creating an instance data file and you sound like you were told on the lists I think no one actually thinks that instance deadfall should contain multiple stores I would rather have multiple files containing multiple data stores so it's more like atomic and it's not overly complex but this discussion against having it done this way there was a discussion and more people should have contributed to keeping a simple single data store my way now we have a new young wire which is obsoleting the simple you need data store one so it's very difficult we are going to use the old one to make new RFC's it is going to create even more confusion so I regret not having more support when there was a discussion that we should keep the same young library and use different mechanisms to achieve the goal it does then it was only me and maybe on the Beermen who was opposing and everyone was completing to that so now he just had to use the new young library I guess I don't think while agree I would have loved to have a more simple solution I don't think these five lines are worth to discuss one question what Rob said previously in my opinion if prop writes a module with a IDF behind module list and then insert this module into this in line spectrum the simplest of modules without deviations could be possibly used given this flexibility here right so you still need at least the revision yeah we could add the third method if that's so yes I've actually written such a draft escucha ITF young packages we could add the fourth method because there's always the matter that the receiver knows what what is the content schema in you do to some offline method or some tech implementation specific method which I think will be quite common as well but if you want we can add the for chatter bit I just like the chair ask the chance to get to some decision on these because none of them you are critical and we are going back and forth and please help me with to get decision well welcome everyone my name is Hugh I'm here to discuss February for setting you next so what is this job about actually a day job to actually define a new IP say we call the factory reset a PC and we also introduced a new faculty for the data store it is read-only data store and obviously no data store actually we typically use cases we use these faculty for all settings we can use these in the zero-touch conversion stage also in some cases you may actually major the each error on the conversion you can use leverage it is reset kappa reset a piece a to reset the device to the fact default state so the current status actually this chapter actually we have two code option for this job and we resolve summary issue actually I sing in so the changes we made actually in this draft actually in in a flourishing they were when working actually my issue is about terminology the young server waited fun people have some concerns so we actually try to reuse the existing terminology like a server they found in the MB architecture ii mentioned major change actually is about how so how these factory reset apply to the data store actually we we can apply all the data store but people have some consent maybe we should you know take out that candidate so we add some text to clarify this and so in second for adoption actually we also raise some of issues and in versions there were two actually the may there's a two issue we try to resolve one is the security issues and we make some proposed and so we were to Scotty so as the open issue and otherwise the copy config actually this is we actually extend is a copy config operation to support security for setting but is not you know a beautiful set in specific so we so the result is we remove these copy config actually so so this just to reflect the discussion on the many needs that we already know remove these copy configure and as I mention actually diseases and not the factory before the specific is so so also we actually release the sev several MDA protocol like American for MT and the rest come dear support actually it doesn't define the kaabah config like RPC actually so but it will be useful to have geta configured because we have faculty for data stall so it's it would be useful to to have the configure to to to allow get a configure to you know get it access to these data store so I sounded the the many nice discussing we actually remove the copy configure accession from the module in the job actually we defer these to the context that your choice so the second issue is about the security issue and because for the reset our pcs and many focused actually to reset the device to the factory default state but also it will be useful you know to use these up easy to clean our the fire we started to notice some of the software process or you also can set the security password or data to the default values but all of these information may be sensitive so we need to actually issue the SSL relevant discussion Adam Kaufman in is related to the Crystal draft actually but we we sink yeah the cognitive or set they stock could be useful for the pistol draft and but we try to resolve these conditions so the proposal we that we propose a some text we can use some encryption or a sign mechanism also talked with our Khalsa we think maybe we should you know around the access control rules to to protect the sensitive data so that's what way you have but we are not a security experts we want to hear if any additional import for these are Joe Clark Cisco um any input on any of these bullets are just the last one last one okay I don't have a input on the last one but I really don't like bullet number two the way it's defined in the draft I could have my device reboot if I set this RPC that as an opera squishy I would rather these things be more atomic like I use the RPC to reset the config and then I might send another RPC to reboot the device oh okay let me restate I would rather there be some more definition around this so that I know what is is necessarily going to happen and yeah it might be that I only want to factory reset the startup and then send an RPC to reboot the device as an example but angle Ericsson has a co-author about the last point that factory default might contain security data I think that's actually not a question about the factory default data store because the same data will be available in running after reset so it's the responsibility of the data model to somehow protect this the security critical items and this that man this should be the same in running and and fact factory default data store so I don't see why this is specific problem to this draft can't as a contributor and also author of the keystore draft work this is being discussed so the the actual data lives in operational but its desire it would need to be promoted to configuration in order to be with referenced by configuration and of course it's the in shipped from manufacturing it'd be ideal for to be in the factory default in store or I mean perhaps startup but all right the problem startup is it could be deleted thereafter I mean it could be a choice what are the other thing it'd be a convenience it's not a security issue though because the data would if it's hidden it's hidden so that's not a pretty issue and it's encrypted encrypted that's my situation okay so it's not a security issue per se okay Jim Carrey Nokia so two points one is kind of agree with the last speaker of the the fact that you know the factory default I don't understand security issue because I would understand that when we reset something the factory default the factory information is going to be used to populate the startup right you know that's effectively what's happening to the other question about the options and another protocols that we've done this with and we've done factory resets for CPEs for going on 20 years now right and in a standard way we we actually allow for the other things that you're talking about cleaning up files or restarting to know particularly we starting to notice simply being options that go into the RPC so you just simply say hey look I'm going to do a factory reset by the way restart this thing when you're done to answer the question Tim answer your question of why a security issue I think something that's a little different here is this this has to be done completely remotely and in many of the factory reset options that come up equipment you have to do it locally you can't do it over your network management wait there's something dual out network management but there's some systems that don't and there's definitely security implications if allowing you remote access to reset a device a network device sure so even with you reset the network device factory reset again we've done this for billions right so it's not like this is new right so the the the information that's put in the manufacturing store right is is then you certainly ok I'm sorry yes damn Bogdanovich TPM in the trusted computing you know they're they're solving those problems and I know many hardware vendors are putting TP and modules inside their hardware so that helps you know somehow solve some of those problems so kenta's contributor and again i'm discuss the keystore craft and then that how important group indeed that isn't where or expecting the TPMS will be used to protect the the keys ship for manufacturing that's exactly what was discussed in this morning's presentation ok Rob Wilson Cisco is just an ad for the our pcs if there's security concerns with that surely knock on wood discover programs as controls of our factory reset all to see so that means anything particularly differently oh I don't have a response to you I just have another addition that's in the Mike my queue behind you so and he said I agree that the system restart I our PC and Mike and yang should be argument if it's to the new or receiving 40 steps right for system restart actually this is something we already discussed actually we and I think the the property there are different them I'm not sure whether we should do the argument from the system restore both Francisco assigned liked what Tim said I think that made a lot sense to me that you just have an option to say also white files and another option that says restart the device if if that's that seems fairly easy to define that if you don't specify that the device isn't restarted okay I think that's the I think probably we will resolve some real issue and probably which you asked to move to the next step Alex yes hello can you give me yes you sound great okay Nixon okay yeah just a quick update on the comparison of an MBA a co-op again reminder this Beijing this the center of this tariff is RPC did it well prepare an MVA data form and we're basing the idea is that you can this provides a view tool to report all the differences between data stores without eating two upload the entire thing in private apply application of this opposes r2 for the troubleshoot conditions which are due to unexpected failures stink issues between data stores lagging to change propagation and so forth so we did post a few new revisions the current revision is zero tool the main changes that were applied are on one hand basically the yang patch format who report differences was updated to add a source to everything a new item source value that shows the values on both sides of the comparison and the comment that were made before must it earlier basically we showed well there's a source of there's a target and the comparison is done in terms of a patch it would be applied to the source reach the target and then would not tell the value on both and on both sides influences the values replaced you would then only nobody the value of one of the data source you know that it would be different in the other one but not which one it is so busy that is the thing that that has been that has been added this is probably the most important change and then in addition we added some more extended example that shows the results of a difference comparison and we also updated and extended the security considerations next slide please so this is just basically is a snippet of the main difference all of the new of the new new portion in the yang data model that has the differences format so basically what you see here is that the yang patch is the young added is augmented to include a new source value which is basically the any data value that basically indicates the value of the source data item and that is it is being replaced and which is been which applies basically whenever you are deleting something from the source off on the left after comparison if you're merging it moving it replacing it or or removing it it is there it's obviously not there if there's a create because I'm busy that value did not exist earlier next one next slide and this already brings me to the last time beta to the to the to the discussion items so basically a couple of items fading to confirm here we'll discuss it with the group one thing first thing concerns dispatch format which is has been all know newly proposed here so basically this augmentation we do believe actually addresses requirement to you have to show the values of both sides of the of the comparison the earlier request was also believed that we should not allow for different formats so we should basically agree and settle on one true to help interoperability so the question is basically if that is the former that we should go forward with and other formats are possible but we just need to settle on ones nobody there's the question really in the room if you will be see if it is for instance another prayer proposal for another canonical deformity so if there are other formats we would like to hear about them so we can make the choice otherwise the proposals whether what's been presented and so that's the first aspect the first item second discussion item turned the the metadata of the original of the data items so basically the idea was if an operational data store is used as a comparison target then the the it would be useful to indicate what the origin of the data is right so that you for poisons if if the assumption is that the we are they came from intended you get it yet it comes from yet the original system that person might offer explanations for instance why data is yeah why did a is different so this might be useful in troubleshooting but one question was basically whether it should be always included or if we should happen now whether an option added whether or not to actually include it or to to omit it so currently we do not have such enough basically this foot well the mo knobs you add the more complexity you add the opinion here is that is probably just to include it best so just like to include it by default but again that is something that we should confirm here and alter well Andy who I think is online actually raise another issue or we had another item that we wanted to discuss with regards to the original meta and this concern basically the action format I'll probably let him speak for itself but it is related to that same item and then the third item is an item that well there has been open for a while it is also listed in the draft currently the comparison filter is defined using sub tree in XPath as per net conf and the question is basically whether there would be a requirement to also allow for definition of filters relating to target resources per s cons and then the final item is an item that was just brought up recently by Tim on the list and concerning adding potentially adding a performance consideration section the performance reservation are way implied in the security section this concerns that basically somebody well they're there Daisy and there is potentially a hits and that is done on the system that is doing the comparison and the request is to add a section which just makes this more explicit which we can add but we which is which has cutting up in not going to add it to this current revision yet and that's that concludes what I have so if we can go through these items and get opinions in the room yes very low yes I can hear you properly I was trying to interrupts you guys you're presenting so we could ask the room case-by-case but we'll have to run the items as well so do them one at a time but we may have to ask you to repeat and go through them louder by the way you were your voice was very low earlier this way I could be a good sorry we there may be a question of the mic is this regarding the first item Rob Wilson says no browsers have one other question that's not related to these at all so maybe I could raise that one never go ahead so Alex looking the draft I'm still not entirely sure the diff is doing quite what I would look for so you have you all option you can be turned on or off and if the all option is off you compare nodes that exist in both datastore so intended and operational is that right yes and only only exists in both do you compare the value and if the all options on it says among you you would do a difficult for contents of both datastore so I think that would mean an operational you get all the data backs or all the operational state back or would you still apply a filter so it only only conflict true items would come back oh no no no the the ideas of course that first of all that you would only breaking report different this back right so yes yes but you consider compared running or intended to operational all the config false data in operational is guaranteed to be different from running because it doesn't exist in running so all your statistics for example all that all that beta will never ever be in runnings is never going to be there would you automatically exclude that we would well okay no we would not automatically exclude that so it is basically the question especially what you would request as what you would request as a user and this is essentially yeah that is essentially up to the user up to the client to specify and what what what it wants to have compared so I think that all options gonna if you compared any configuration data source operation is going to give you back a lot more data than you're interested in because it will give you back all operational data as well as the applied configuration okay I would be interested I've been teresting an option that just effectively compares the conflict true nodes in operational get What's in running or intended but has all of those you know they're in exist in one or the other so I want to see configuration items that are in running but haven't yet been applied so maybe the line cards missing and conversely I'd also like to see configuration that I've removed from running but it still persists on the system due to some issue or some error that some reason my bgp peer configuration hasn't been deleted I'd like to see that so I like an option that filters the the config true part of operational against what's in intended or running if possible right now okay so right now baby it would be in the way this is defined right now is that okay so maybe it's also video you're saying we need to have something between between these two two option right because right now we have either you include everything or you include or you exclude data from the comparison that does not pertain to both but you're saying this you would want to have it restricted a little bit further so if your optional yeah between the two I like on a question how useful the all option will be very comparing operational to a configuration datastore I think that because the amount of data will come back by and large that's probably not what's being looked for yeah I mean the obvious you also have a filter spec that you'll then you specify as well so so when you say that that all differences are returned that would be only busy if your filter spec is empty or if your or if you're asking to to compare the entire tree which in general might however not be the case but I mean of course if you do this but it's true everything everything will come back but typically you would have a filter spec as well but if you if you consider for example say you're checking the configuration for one interface then you might have three or four lines of interface configuration in an operational you'd have that plus hundreds of counters another operational data and that would automatically always be returned because I'll never ever be in intended or running so I'll always be reported as a difference if you specified your all option but make you know what they're better through it's better by the all option mm-hmm by our question is when is that useful when when does any do they don't actually really need that case is a useful case where that's useful dates to return okay I cannot give you an answer right now I mean it's clearly something that we could control I mean this I guess that is the so I think you're you're asking should we remove this all option or group and just include another option fitting instead yes that's my question okay so I don't have a strong opinion on the on the all right now I do think definitely having the option to exclude it like I get this here that that one certainly is important if you want to have everything yeah I'm okay I don't have a use case actually right now at the top of my head for this so this is maybe a question to ask Rob chic a Google the only thing I can take the point I can add is we didn't implement the all option when we implemented this like we didn't implement this draft core we've had a service doing this since 2015 I think and we don't have a no option okay okay so that drained the my queue and we'll go back to going over these points and asking the room for information or oops so first was the patch format or the for instance and I think the question was so already I think we've had an agreement that there should only be one format that should be returned for death the question is what should that format be and the current proposal is an augmentation to the patch format and the question is that have sufficient or if there should be another format in particular something that may be called gained if a dip format so instead of augmenting patch maybe we should actually have a format that's very specifically customised for returning dips is that did I capture that correct Alex yeah this is this is correct but barring my render the Yankee there is no separately and deform it that has that has been proposed yet we do think it can be done using the augmentation of the patch format but we could of course define it but yeah that is correct so yeah Vogel since this case I wouldn't define a diff format as part of this work if that's to be done I'll do it as a separate RC I so I would say do patch format now but hopefully designed such a way that it could be extended to cover a different format in future if that's feasible okay so they actually I think what I was saying before is at last time this meeting we concluded that there should only be one format that we shouldn't you know says so what you're saying is let's reopen and possibly support multiple formats it I don't think I think we're going to choose one format choose the one we already have so rather define a new one so if the jury concluded we only won one format then use yang patch that seems fine okay well objections does anyone else have a comment about this so as myself as a contributor I do worry just a little bit about if we are augmenting yang patch that the patch format it just seems a little bit awkward to me and I worry that I do think this has been the important feature and one that will be will be living with for a long time and I think that it would be Hoover ourselves to actually ensure that we pick a format that this ideal for for for this purpose and in particular imagine us needing to extend the format in the future if it or maybe yang hatch changes in the future and they're coupled in such a nasty way that we don't get to do what you know we don't get separated the music so I also don't mind Moulton I also in mind if you want to define a DIF format again I still wouldn't define it in this document something that's better to define generically and reference it from this if the proposal is to use a yang different set of yang patch that also is fine being good but I'm it's going to slow down this work though if you do that I think by whatever time it takes to define a yang diplomat okay so I guess that's the question well I guess I have three questions the other question is well to also revert on the earlier question and if you want to allow for yang patch augment it now and then maybe something different later I can ask a question alright say let's start with that because if we are able to support multiple bit formats or return different two formats then we can almost let go the other remaining questions first that's the first question for the person right so we're gonna ask two questions first is to prove supports and then the second would be who does not support um so for those who do support the idea of just returning a single format that there's no option for for for the client to specify the format please raise their hand I think the question you are asking is who supports restricting the return to a single format so who would like only a single format question is who wants to allow right right but I've just think some people know okay so the format single format please raise your hand there's very few thank you support a multiple formats and also a few but statistically more a lot more so then okay so then okay the baton effectively reverse the decision that we had from last time and if we allow for multiple formats and my objection for moving forward with this format now is I'll obviated I no longer worry about it because I know we can fix it later so then I think we don't need to ask any more questions we could move forward with this format so Robert insisted to clarify I support multiple formats but I restricted small set of them probably limited to two sure okay well it would be they would presumably go through the working group and the work group would only adopt the work if it was reasonable self-limiting well one one question this well one question is how we would do that practically be earlier busy we had a flag that was allowed to specify the format and base is the preference for format and if this is about the but if you're saying we need to allow for future formats and I'm not sure how we can oh how we could one say it's only this or one other formats which has not been defined yet okay great so I'm moving on to the second bullet point then should parameter be included to in control whether or not to include origin metadata when operational is the comparison target so I know we all have to remember everything that Alex said before but hopefully that's clear again yes No so should a parameter be included if you believe that a parameter should be included to control whether or not the origin metadata should be returned please way to raise your hand there's very few and then I think the option is that there be no parameter specified then that the Alice help me here if no parameter specified is automated returned or not returned yeah well then we'll just be returned by default we return by default okay so actually maybe if in case that wasn't clear actually let me restart that okay because I don't I'm not sure if everyone was clear about that so if you think that origin met it that there's no parameter and origin but it it should be returned by default please raise your hand okay there's no one okay sorry go ahead Mike so global - Cisco sonal devices will necessarily support origin metadata so the question really is whether it's better to have that as an input parameter such that you'd fail the request you can't support it or whether you just don't return it if you don't have it so so that's why I'm have I prefer having parameter because then at least you know as a client whether I'm not going to get this data okay I guess there's a good reason to do okay that's a good point so this will be in favor of having a parameter true to control it in which case one would expect it and then we could have an explicit but if it's not supported then obviously the request will be denied Alex you're agreeing with problem the progress yeah I think I am agreeing with Rob yes and as a contributor I agree okay so third bullet point sunfilter to define using sub tree as an XPath as per neck knob is the requirement for the definition of filters related to target resources for rest counts which okay Alice can do it with this bullet point again well then is something that we it has been trap for for y so basically the comparison filter that we use to baby yepp the filter spec well it's it's a question many but include as part of the filter spec where we say baby which part of the data store to include and that one yeah and this one basically is defined in a s pro Netcom orbiting in a dead fish weight using subtree index path and and the issue was brought up in the past betting you whether well what about what about allowing a restaurant way of of defining that of putting the filters where you putting a different format for the filter spec if you look at it so if you look at the RPC but while this parameter this business pack is defined as a yeah essentially is a subtree filter or expert filter these are the things you think that you can have okay so to clear you're saying current through current definitions that either a sub tree or an xpath filter to be passed yes and the question is whether or not we should extend to support also a third which would be mimicking breast cough like semantics right that was the that was that was the issue in there yes mmm-hmm okay now when I'm thinking about restaurant filters they're you know the query parameters so there's fields for instance would be one of them is that we're thinking yeah yeah this this particular item I'm not exactly sure I mean this was brought up in the past obviously even when we define it we did not think we thought actually that what we have the filter specs that that happened that the survived and to be sufficient for what we need to accomplish so from that perspective yeah this is a yeah it's a contributor if you will think I I don't see the need for that but it was brought up by the group before and we have listed it as an item in the draft so this is why we need to raise a fashion so if they are if if people think we need a different format or in a national format yeah we should discuss it so the current it's an RPC not an action correct there this correct of the RPC so in our way rest comp works for most part is you specify the URL to the node that you wish to operate on the resourcing governing on which would in in Netcom parlance would be more like an action as opposed to a RPC mm-hmm to the extent that this is an RPC and then in rest comp terms that be in slash operations at a global level and and hence the rest comp query parameters would not make sense in that context you would have to have something like what you're suggesting of sub tree or XPath filters don't believe the option exists however if we wanted to support actions instead of our PC then we could have that conversation mm-hmm does anyone else have an opinion about this this actually I don't think this is something pull the room we're gonna pull the rooms just discussing this a discussion point anyone wants to commit oh all right so Alex I think we should probably take this one to the list it's pretty complicated but some examples would help all right yeah or maybe uh or if or I guess believe if nobody's coming forward with the reason why subtree next time would not be sufficient then we probably just can tell this issue sure and actually we may actually raise wide support both should we support both subtree and XPath okay that's a I guess that is a six second question yeah yeah because in in that combat lis subtree is mandatory to implement we're experts not of course if you're if you're a restaurant surfer and you're not implementing that comp you might be you know that might be unfortunate you may not want it as some people dream okay lastly and the question is do we add performance considerations section or added out of performance considerations okay though this is on Tim's thing so Tim did you want to walk us through exactly what unless you raise some lists you just approaching the mic yeah Tim carry nokia so when we read the draft there were some concerns and in terms of an implementation because we have some very constrained servers right that if I was given a request to do a diff on some data stores where I don't have the compute resources to return the the information being requested how what is the question came back says what do we do what is the appropriate response that we should give back should we curtail what we have and just provide what we have should we give them a you know thumb our nose to them or not or whatever it's supposed to be we'd like to have that response certainly documented of of what happens if we can't fulfill the request right and if so that's and and then alex suggests said well we've already created some of this in the security section but in reality we probably do need some type of you know performance piece to say hey look you know if you're if you can't fulfill the request you should do this type of things for the for the these types of behaviors that you can't fulfill well yeah there was an underlying question on this is as well but one thing was I mean obviously if you cannot fulfill the request you can always just decline because you can just deny it but I guess the underlying other question relies to do you want to have some kind of prodding operation or so you can have only so many requests per time unit or or what have you or is that something that you would we weren't worried so much about a median or a throttling aspect of it if someone else might be we were just saying look you know we we might not necessarily be able to you know meet the meet meet the request coming in what we wanted was was that we wanted this the RFC to specify the behavior specifically so that people that are implementing this will know you know what to do sure yeah I think and I think what you're asking for is mostly tutorial item as well so I think yeah I think let's just add it I think if we can get clearer if it terrifies the things why why not do it so on and I would suggest we just added for the politics probation so according to my clock were out it we're almost have time but lose says we're out of time she don't fully understand why it is that you wouldn't be able to fill the request so let's take a second on the mailing list yeah and actually blue is incorrect there is idem beverages and snacks in the break time and we'll see you in the room next door 20 minutes okay yeah okay right all right your lips but I right thanks Alex everyone everyone whose remote will need to rejoin From: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9k7qggWAS5o yep so we're gonna work through the administrative detail here this is a continuation of the immediately previous meeting which had occurred in the adjacent roof so our agenda still holds as planned I would observe that the note well still applies to this meeting just as it did to the previous half of the meeting so keep that in mind this is very much an IETF activity blue sheets are going around it is not actually Liggett or II that you signed them both times since we're having the same meeting but if you didn't sign them previously by all means do so so that we have an accounting of the fact that you are in the network of vertices these are different blue sheets yes [Music] okay administrative details we do have a media echo session for this I was scribing in there for who was speaking we have the same etherpad as previously so we can just pretty much pick up where we left off all right so agenda wise we are going to start in with the design team and so this is actually about half of our agenda for this session and first up is Joe Clark a versioning design team update all right so it will actually be three of us presenting actually be three of us presenting today I will be your first host oh okay next please using that so there are agenda today will be five minutes hopefully less for me followed by I'm gonna guess the bulk of the time with Rob and then Bala will round us out and Rob will take us to next steps next please so the first thing we want to talk about is the versioning requirement changes and the reason this is only five minutes is because this is going to be fairly short essentially last time we agreed that we would adopt this document it was still unclear as to what the fate of this document will be if it will be taken RFC or if it will just be something that the working group agrees to that these are the requirements that we're trying to solve and instead we will then adopt solutions work through those solutions as a working group and take those two RFC but we did adopt it there has been one change since just transitioning it over to an IETF net mod document and that is changed to text for requirement 1.4 based on feedback we got directly at the last meeting next please that change was the original 1.4 said essentially that non backwards compatible changes must be allowed there was some consternation over why must they be allowed instead what they were what we really wanted to focus on was win non backwards compatible changes occur those changes need to be signaled or documented so that one can see that between two revisions of a particular yang module that backwards-compatible changes have occurred so what you can see down there under the new heading is the new text we arrived at this was posted to the mailing list a little bit of while a little while ago we haven't heard any additional comments on this so at this point the design team feels that the requirements draft the ITF version at revision 0-1 is final these are the requirements that we have been working towards in terms of a solution at this point questions all right as to what the final resting place of this document is we of course leave that to the chairs and the working group the design team feels that what I said earlier this document will not progress to an RFC it will just be there to serve as the guidelines for the requirements that will inform the solution or solutions that come forward actually on the next document but it maybe is pertinent to this question wait and it's really why not combine the two and you have like a solution overview document that repeats a whole bunch of requirements in it if you really believe that we need requirements somewhere let's keep it at one place rather than have because the requirements even though you don't think it needs to be documented it's not meant twice so it'd be great just to have one document and maybe maybe what we end up as from a working group is a requirements in solution overview or requirements and framework document and that's how we end up publishing that so we fold in what's now an individual document into the working group document and let that go forward and you know maybe all the historic stuff goes in an appendix just for context okay so so I do feel that the documenting the requirements are important not necessarily document is a ratified document but I get your point and maybe that's what then will become of the the framework of the next document that will be presented any other questions comments ones requirements are facing stone even if they are in document we don't spend our time reviewing them all the time because they're wise you're back to square one right well we definitely shouldn't change this one once we're done with you know the process of agreeing that we've arrived at that point very good and actually that's a hundred percent my objection with repeating requirements in another document now I have to go review those make sure they're right now we have to go discuss them is it the right way to summarize let's not do that please so we're saying yeah our intent is that these requirements now become fixed these are the requirements for which we're trying to solve the the requirements in the overview draft are only there to make it easy to read so if it's easy to have them now just refer to this one that sorts of it's more easier to say the requirements are documented here go read it just give a second second set which isn't written quite exactly the same way that you have to figure out what's different what's not different yes that's right well oddly Rob why don't you get up here I'm gonna get out before something changes okay so so I need a quick update for next slide please so I just want to we continue to have semi regular meeting since ITF 104 there's quite a few people who've I'm dialed in either a weekly or semi weekly basis and we've continued to progress various documents I like to thank everyone down there on that list I don't repeat them and our main output really is that tweak the requirements document the judges talked about an updated sort of solution solutions overview draft that sort of tries to pin everything together and show you wear the different bits of the solution hanging together and then our main focus has been working on this sort of new / updated yang moderate module revision handling draft that evolved from the somatic version draft that we presented in 104 my opinion is that this draft accommodates all sort of core feedback we received during the working group meetings and also the versioning discussions we had at 1:04 and so we think it was sort of reflects that consensus from that next slide please so I'm now going to spend the next 20 minutes discussing the solution overview I'm just trying to set the scene of where these drafts ought to hang together then there's me subsequent talks on some of those there are different parts so next slide please so my intention here was that the solution David Dreier you draft is meant to be a sort of transient temporary document the the idea here really is just to help the readers who are reviewing those drafts understand how they fit together what bits haven't yet been written but in what will be written a mind teacher wasn't intended to take this to RFC I mean it could be done but that the attention of this was to help people during the review process in terms of updates there will be a separate presentation by balázs on updated mod revision handling I will talk about young packages after this and Rashied will talk about version selection so those three ones will be covered in more detail next slide please so the overall solution as we see it now is made up of five different parts the first one is in updated yang module revision handling so this is doesn't talk about semantic versioning at all but talks about yang module revisions and how they can allow non backwards compatible changes and Express those and more branching and fixing other things related to that area there's a really just a semantic version number scheme that it sure could be described fairly abstractly that hasn't been written yet but we derived from the text from the previous one draft 30 over DT net mod yang Simba's eros eros or take the semantic versioning a definition from that draft you just extract that text and I'm putting in isolation so we'll do that in the next phase there's a version yank packages draft and this one was published this update was much before ITF 104 I need some changes to take into account the changes in the updated yang mode revision handling so I will present that one this time it wasn't presented in 104 and but there needs to be some updates to that there's also a draft for protocol operations for package version selection so that's draft Wilson Ahmad yang vs. election 0/0 again that one was published before 104 Rashad will be talking about that so again that is sort of quite early draft we expect there to be more substantial changes to that and then the final part of this whole puzzle we think he's tolling related to doing schema comparisons between either a module by module basis all you group a set of modules together into one is yang packages to actually version and be able to compare two schemas and report at the schema level what's different or maybe on a per leaf node base of data node basis what's changed between those two schemas so that work is on is our least lowest priority at the moment we're to try and get the other work out the way first so next slide please okay can you talk about if there's any significance that the naming of the document I notice go through some transformations from version design team only well I think probably not at this stage the ones that came out of the Verde T the design team obviously have the Verde T prefix the young version yanked packages and the packaged version selection were not work there was output from the design team there in need to individual drafts that I wrote but I that's not because the design team doesn't align necessarily with that direction I don't think it was just more that that's when they produced the proposal later on here is for the design team to hopefully pick up those documents and work on them as design team documents that's the plan if that's okay the name doesn't it's a file name so it doesn't really matter but whether we have a complete solution from the design team or a partial solution I think does matter and we really are looking the chairs are really hoping to get a complete solution from the design team yeah and if for some reason a design team didn't feel that that was a a noble goal we should you talk about that so it's great to hear your plan so yeah it's one card they're like one comment on that not everyone the design team believes that the version selection is required I would say so that's the one we're not going to redo des Kate are our requirements and that it's in their requirements yeah I'm sorry that's one so you know good so of the first of those five drafts the updated yang module revision handling this is the one there's a more detailed talk on this by launch we'll cover all of the different parts of this in a lot more detail so this is just a one slide summary of what we've done and what the draft covers and you have the core enhancements to Yang or to allow but not necessarily encourage nonlinear module development eg for bug fixes so we allow we allow some sort of branching to occur in yang module history and to document when not on backwards compatible changes have occurred in the revision history so we're not saying that we're not encouraging that people should do this but even when they do occur at least be able to describe that so that when clients when people read these documents and or client tools are processing them they can know where and Nan box classical changes have occurred the next part of that is that we we still identified module revisions uniquely using the revision date so nothing's change from what we have today but we allow a new freeform text label to be associated with a revision and this text label can be used effectively to overlay like a semantic versioning scheme for example or some other scheme that somebody else comes up to it's not we're not defining within this document what the form of those text labels can be but we do allow these revision labels to be used when in the file name for example in replace for a revision date and the import by derived revision again can also use this label as well we define a new version of import so today yang has an import that will choose any revision or has an import that chooses a very specific revision and one of those is two general ones to specific so we are introducing one that's import by revision data or derived and that effectively you will find you a revision that is either that or that's within its history and so that's the attention there is if a module that you're importing has a new container added into it or new and you know that you're referencing then you can put dependency on that revision or later so you put in that source code dependency we define backwards-compatible versus non backwards-compatible changes and these are actually the non backwards-compatible change so bogus collateral changes are very close to what is defined in our c 7950 with some tweaks and the non box-cutter ones fairly obvious from that we clarify and prove yang status handling so in particular we clarified the deprecated means you still have to implement the node or otherwise and use deviations to indicate you're not implementing it and obsolete means you don't implement the node and then finally we've added some updates and guidelines for how you update yang word rules based on these updated rules next slide please so the second draft and this one's not been written yet and this is the semantic version number scheme so I'm just saying what the plan is do it and we tend to to do this over the next window next four months is to define a semantic versioning scheme that allows a bug fixes to release software released software assets so effectively it's what's already documented the algorithm in the draft DT net mod yang symbol 0 0 and it's a version of semver 2 0 0 but with the ability to add these bug fixes in to the released assets when necessary the main changes to is that doesn't actually now need to define what constitutes a backwards compatible or non box-cutter will change that would be assumed to be defined outside this and this is this is what will be used we expect this is some people as a revision label so effectively the revision labels you have will use this semantic versioning scheme so you end up with having semantic version for your young modules and then again it's worth pointing out that in terms of this this versioning scheme is not going to be tied to yang so although it will be defined or have some references to the and models it could be used anywhere where you want to do this sort of semantic versioning of assets but you want to have a bit more flexibility to be putting be to put bug fixes in two older released code or released api's looks like so yang package again an overview I'm I've got with more detail on this later on so what is a yang package is identifying a set of yang modules and their dependency so it's a bit like taking Watson Yang library and putting it into a file or this one example but it's a bit more flexible than that so whereas Yang library will tell you what the schema is for a particular data store an entire device this allows you to do subsets of yang modules so bits of bits of stuff together and group them and the key thing here is that those packages can then be versioned in the same way that modules are being versions so rather than having each vendor implementing choosing exactly which module version module they want so every single language will they're implementing I think the use of packages could encourage people to have more commonality in what they implement so if you took the ITF young model for example you could have a package that defines the base models and types and things you could have separate package for routine you could have a separate package for VPN services for example and those would be versioned over time and so rather than somebody saying well I want this version this or this version of that you could choose something off that the history of those version packages yes yes yep it copes with that has dependencies between packages and you may have dependencies between packages that conflict and so the the solution here requires that you resolve those conflicts at the time you combine those two packages together into a into a combined package you have any conflicting module dependencies you have to resolve them explicitly say how they're resolved so yes in terms of packages that could be available offline using the yang instance data document they also the plan is to augment yang library so that rather than necessarily downloading the full module list off a device if you knew and expected what package version it's going to implement you can just check that it's implementing what you expect so make it an easier check for comments conformance wise and as I said there's a separate present presentation on this following later so that's what I cover now next slide so the fourth one is protocol operations for package version selection so one of the key aims of yang packages is to allow devices to potentially implement different versions of modules as cohesive sets and then to allow clients to select which ones to use so this could be done where they're choosing between some different sets of vendor modules or it might be they want to choose to use the ITF yang models or a particular version of the open config yeah models as examples and so the packages are identifying those sets of modules and then using our pcs to select which ones to use and this could be the case that the server only allows you to support implementing one particular packaged version for the entire management interface or it may be that some devices allow you to have support multiple different packaged versions and to select those depending on maybe the session that's being used so again there's another presentation covering this but as I say here is failure the early draft there will be more changes in here but really it's just the ideas are being presented and next slide please and then the last one so there's no draft written yet they slightly lower priority I do think it's a key part of this set and that's to define an algorithm to compare to schema trees the detects backwards-compatible versus non backwards-compatible changes so it looks through those two schemas and says that these are where the changes are so P yang already does some of this the result could then be given at the schema level or it could be given on a data node level and it could be also taken to account features or deviations or the subset of the schema actually being used by by the operator so if they are only using no 1/3 of a particular protocol module they're not using these options then when you're comparing to see what's changed between two versions of that module you may not care if stuff has changed in the stuff you're not using so again be able to compare the schemas and subset it in to the stuff you care about I think gives you almost like the perfect answer there is some some cases where this is difficult to do you can't well known it's very hard to have tolling that would check the description statements and find out whether there's some change in the semantics behavior of a data node until our machine learning gets a bit better XPath expressions and regular expressions in other cases where it's very hard to see what has changed it's very hard to tell if it's a backwards compatible change that's been made in those cases so I think there's consideration there as to whether we use some form of annotation potentially to mark those cases where it might look like it's about as compared to a change but it's not or vice versa it looks like a non box collateral change but actually it's backwards compatible any questions on this one okay come on automatic sliders is so so this is just a chart I'm not sure how accurate this is it it's effective trying to show you the dependencies between the the modules between the the drafts with the darker blue arrows showing sort of proper dependencies and then the lighter colored arrows sort of showing user level dependency so where you may choose to use semantic versioning scheme for example but there's not actually a dependency between the drafts and you can see that this module the module revision handling sit to the top and pari has a key dependencies then everything that might want to use semantic versioning scheme 'obviously has dependency on that but other schemes could be used it's just one choice the packages draft depends on the module versioning and the package version selection of C depends on that one and then the schema comparison touring depends on packages if that's what you're comparing or modules if that's what you're comparing now next slide and that's it for me so any questions on that overview section at all in terms of the sort of overall picture of how the solution fits together you have any examples examples of the first the first one versioning the Motorama version right and we're using revisions so if you have an example the new revision format looks like yes in the in the next so the module revision handling draft will be covered in detail next so that covers all that and a lot more detail of those examples in there I will talk about the packages version schema draft after that Rashaad will talk about the package version selection the two that we're not covering any more detail today is the semantic versioning scheme that's based on what was there before we have written in yet and the schema comparison told him that we haven't really looked at in great detail with you the design team really want the working room today I think what I would like to know is where the people in this room think that as a sort of solution space of solving the entire problem is does this look like the right set of things that we are solving and does it look like it covers all the pieces you would expect it to cover does it look like it's morally the right approach so obviously they've become some individual drafts and things but does this look like overall the right thing then work is needed exactly all of this with you show there I am I'm not hundred percent sure that maybe the scope is too much over there trying to put it but what they see as a problem when doing yank are the dependencies and figuring out what are my dependencies what they have flawed in order to enable the service and we are planning to be able to create abstractions at different layers that going to change where they're happening and be able to take into the content and maybe even prepackaged those things up and saying oh here's my whole package and and it's it's getting deployed you can unit tested etc it is very helpful exactly how to do that that's a question not because there many of the issues that you're just beginning to the stuff in the other comments so I think I'm bashing them up they start at the end but I think the plan will be to try and continue down this track effectively and try and get these bits the doctors as we go along earlier we're looking for the design team to come up with a full and set of it documents that answers all the requirements and then bring them to the working group for further option call so it's important to make sure that the working group is aware of what's going on in the design team and is generally aligned with the answers once once they become working group documents we're going to follow a normal working group process which is everyone in the working group has it will have an opportunity to provide equipment influence so it's not that at adoption we're done it's that we have a focus team that's trying to give us a starting point don't you blurt about the pre-comp so when you're the semantic version sounds great I was always wondering why it didn't start out that way so it that's not great when you're talking about visualizing the difference between schemas would it be the resolve schema once you've resolved all the groups because usually that's what consumers baby eyes are mentally visualize or is it visualizing I think I think both is answer so I think you're comparing a module itself then you might do it on the module text but even even then actually I think you have to resolve the sub modules and allow groupings and things to move around so I think it's sort of the the resolved schema to some level but I might not be fully resolving all dependencies it might be this module with dependency still hanging in open or it might be the entire scheme like a yang package you take the whole package resolve everything internally and it's a complete package you then then look at the actual abstract syntax tree for the yang effectively constructed and could be comparing those on a node by node basis okay I think it's time for blush so this draft is there let's say the main out main output at this point we derived it from the complete solution we try to separate parts of it and we believe that we had discussions on the last IDF on the on the meeting but also outside afterwards with many people we believe that all the all the main comments were included one point is that this applies to yang modules so sub modules they are very closely connected to module 2 the modules themselves so they should just follow the modules themselves next please this updates a number of current RFC's one is the yang one that one because the update rules are sometimes not not specific enough but sometimes they are too strict those updates yang library because the versioning provides additional information that we want to include there and also the authoring guidelines for example hydrogen information should always be present and and life cycles of the different schema notes should be also included so what do we have here we have an extension that will go into the revision statement and include indicates that this revision of the yang module is not known backwards compatible and BC to a previous version if if it's not there then it's assumed or it must be backwards compatible we also explicitly state that we allow nonlinear yang module development so branching and updating previous previous revisions which was not forbidden in 7950 but many people assume that they are there we will have linear development only we introduced to revision labels because many people many companies have nice versioning scheme Sykes same wear or some other ones and they would like that information that gives a short compatibility information short history information in some form to be included provision or derived was also mentioned earlier so that states that you can import something that is newer than whatever mode module date you chose but it can't be just a date because of the nonlinear development anymore we had to update what backward compatible and the unknown backward compatible changes mean because we want to accept some NBC changes and especially the status related changes were not clear in 79 15 we have some additions for status handling and yang library are updates as we mentioned next slide please so maybe the most important part is here the red thing we have and BC changes that indicates inside the revision information that this revision made are incompatible and on backwards-compatible change to compare to the previous revision and it's always in this full list of revision statements the previous revision that means that you should not remove revision statements maybe you can remove the description part or shorten the description parts but you should not remove their revision statement itself because at that point you lose this information also you should add a revision statement all the time I think it's not mandatory in 790 50 every time if when at the Green Point where we just added functionality we don't have this revision extension this will allow normal in their development so here the February first revolution date was also developed because whatever customer didn't want to upgrade to the new version and then we have two branches and there's actually no limit of branching so you can branch the branch and then again and again do an infinite tree although that's not a very good practice but if business needs force you you can do that because if you look at it every yank file in itself is linear but the yang module might have multiple files that go on different branches in on this tree we don't this boss this is a possibility that can be misused we don't recommend arbitrary branching especially not for as the earth and each yang module the text by itself will represent one route from the leaf of this tree up to maybe the root or at least to some level next please so we have revision labels because the NBC only tells you that yes we have and change but to actually understand that you have to parse the module already and look up all the revision statements which is quite a bit of work so as an alternative you can have revision label that contains similar information this draft does not say what is in the revision label these are examples and we can will have multiple drafts or at least one drafts about at the same where can be in the revision label the format is rather free only concern is that it should not be not be mistaken or as a date and it can be used later for other in the import statements as well yeah next one please okay here is an example of what the revision labels for assembler would be if you see that the main number changes every time when we have this read NBC changes extension there so from when we just add something then we only go from 3 to 0 to 3 1 next please okay import by revision or derived that's a very important part of this work so we said the simple import without any revision date is too liberal if you have the revision date there is too strict what the usual case is that I want something that includes the functionality I'm depending on already and anything later on I very much hope that it will not remove what the functionality I depend on it's not a strict promise that everything afterwards is good for me but usually it is enough very revision or derived can be based both on the revision label and it can also be based on revision date or derived would it stop at a module revision and has NBC changes no no should it no because most of the time the NBC changes don't impact the import there is a risk there and that we had in earlier versions very complex sets where we said that from this version to that version and it gets more and more complex and usually you want to leave it open-ended because you don't know what changes the new revisions will bring and many many times that even if the changes are NBC they won't impact your import won't impact your importers so this is not as if you really want to be strict and really be sure then you must check every every date but we don't want to be there actually in the previous versions of the same draft we had more strict and more complicated solutions and this was the most user-friendly and feel helpful the revision will derive dependency it's almost like a source time dependency when you actually come to use these modules you knew something like downline really on package that will constrain exactly which version you're going to use anyway and in the case that something comes along and breaks your source dependency they made some nautical change at that point you've expected probably to releasing a new version you revision off your jewel to do the import then fixes to a later provisional derived or changes up to them to fix the important pence again so we think that this is the right balance being not too strict because otherwise if you limit it it's more likely than actually but I said you're not gonna be impacted you start update your module anyway so we think it's better to be better to ask forgiveness them to be too strict performed okay I think my only analogy here would be like suffered you know when you're building and you have dependencies on libraries and you'll say I depend on library you know three dot one dot two so if three dot X I'll support but if it ever goes to for TEDx I don't want to support that so sometimes there's the ability to put brackets or limits into how much future you want to support automatically but I accept you know it's been discussed by the design team just want to make sure that was something that you guys have to cover and also previous might as well I think it was yes so this the the two future statements that you're creating here is this what I understand to be possible extensions to yang quarreling gang language yes okay max next okay so in order to define what is when we put in those statements we have to define what is backward compatible and NBC 7950 gives us a very good basis for that but not the full statement because deprecating and obsoleting nodes can actually be NBC or BC depending on how it's implemented what we assume is that if you deprecated the node it's still there so that's a backwards compatible change but if you obsolete a node then it will be removed so that we define as a non backward compatible change also reordering data definition statements in most of the cases that should not hurt anyone so that we allow that and anything else is known backward compatible but stating that opps obsoleting is NBC that's a definite change from 7950 next okay we have the so that we have the status statement in yang we want to change what deprecated and adopts elite means we still is this is not a mandatory statement so it's not a must or a shell but we say that deprecated should be still there working fully functional while obsolete should be removed if if you don't remove obsolete that can or that can also result in surprising and errors so even for obsolete I think we is important to define this but for backwards compatibility we put into the Yang library to the extra leaves that states that do you follow what we recommend here or not if you don't put these extra Leafs then you are backward compatible meaning you can do anything you like and your clients will be surprised maybe also when you deprecated or obsolete something often you have a reason for that often you have a time line when you will actually remove it maybe you have a replacement so a status description statement was added for that so I like the idea of having an ability to specify whether or not the server actually complies or not that being the case why aren't these musts i mean and backwards compatibility i three months the server has data more data than it should but for the first bullet point where it says it should be implemented its must I mean how else can we have interoperability if it's not sure the clients aren't sure that it's actually there because you can check in the yang library that is it ro the deprecated nodes we implemented and functional if you sorry okay so the third by you saying gang library you're talking about the third bullet point yes that indicates if you follow the first two or not but are you saying that with third bullet point that is possible for the server to say that the first bullet point is actually those two will contract you must not judge yes if you yes if we next then I agree that we would try and get these to be fine since you're doing extensions you can change the rules for implementations that implement that extension so you can say if you implement this extension you must do these things okay and it's probably worth reducing the number of options so in the case where you have an extension think about making things more bus than shirts Martin be account held previous meetings a very strong opinion that we need to indicate in the yang library whether whether these first two rules are followed or not we should not make them must probably could get about masks now that's what we want isn't it yes I agree with two you know but we had some pushback that's why we have this in young library to indicate whether these are followed or not please so what we have in the yang library is two nodes deprecated nodes implemented obsolete node up steps and these are the first two bullet points we have discussed lately and if they are not there and then there anything can happen with these that's one of the problems that in yang one that one that they the definition is too open the other problem was that currently yang library doesn't specify which version which revision of a yang module is imported if multiple revisions are present and that might mean in some cases that mandatory data nodes are present when we thought it's not or mandated three nodes are absent when we thought they would be there so it's kind of a bug let's say or a missing point piece in 7950 so it's not the rules data model of some of angle eyebrow is not modified but the rules what they mean are modified to make it very specific which more module is imported in this case excellent or in a question whether the second point here exists really bug fixes is is something that a raft failed to cover or not my precious is a change of behavior offensive it couldn't be covered in an errata but he was opening that if we could get in after that would be better he's clarifying I hate Lee that's ambiguous today we're still trying to digest what exactly what seconds no it's both 1 & 2 of the second so I need to see the errata before making a call as to the level of change that's being done yeah okay to judge whether it's right or something is suitable for errata or abyss or update okay yeah I think the specific proposed text we have to look at not the problem but the solution ultimately if you believe it's a clarification you should probably just submit it and then we can debate it except that it will be in a row then it will be at a unverified errata and we can add it to the list or discuss it so you're right on track but you're on track for like another 10 minutes okay yes data it was required requirements to do say what it what happens with versioning instance data itself is not version because what backwards compatibility means there that's not defined on the other hand it back versioning is very useful for instance data understanding if the schema defining modules can be somewhat different next please and then we have some guidelines telling others how to do changes that not to do NBC changes and try to make the changes for the clients that's painful use deprecation use this more flexible import use status information and such things and sometimes duplicate data to be able to use both new and old versions or potentially sell right version selection next please if clients is kind of a requirement of recommendation for clients that yes changes are coming and they should tolerate a number of changes and also they should monitor what kuat happens with modules so they should check if the module is backwards compatible and my first answer is I don't know don't care this only says that we have a revision label where you can put in some numbers now there will be a separate draft about Sandler based the revision labels yes ember has difficulty with unlimited branching there whatever you put into the revision label will have its limitations or maybe you have a versioning number version numbering scheme that's all powerful them no limitations but that's not part of this draft again we here in this draft we just defined that there is a place where you can put that in the further drafts will propose the same where based a visioning system and there they will have meaning but not in this draft we here just we have a placeholder so Robin just have one comment to that so you so somebody might a vendor might choose to choose their module labels as foo and bar and what said like choose whatever they want so he's whoever's doing that scheme is define the semantics of the scheme so very quickly to cover the next steps there's just one slide here actually we sort of discussed it earlier so at the beginning we were going to seek adoption for this first draft I think the feedback from the chairs was that actually they want to adopt this as a set so I think of fatally we're going to continue on the same track any comments we received on the module version draft will update but the other ones will effectively work on the other ones the static version scheme yank packages in version selection drafts and also the tooling one but I'm not sure we'll get those all done before the next IDF there's still a lot of work there and then on seryung packages please that's it so I already covered a little bit of this this is just a little bit more details and so next slide please on this and yank packages and so yes effectively the idea here as beforethe said 'is to diversion sets of young modules together with their dependencies and in terms of how the yank packages draft is written at the moment it's using the yang cember solution as a way of identifying or the the version number scheme for these modules that's the one thing I think we need to update or at least discuss relative to how we've changed the modular versioning and made the semantic versioning number a label and option thing rather than things tied in the packages could be hierarchical so a package can import other packages and that gonna curse down the packages themselves can be I their complete or incomplete so you don't necessarily have to tie off all your dependencies depending on what you're doing and that might help if you were you had dependencies and like type modules and things that like you may not want to depend those the package themselves can be available from yang library or they can be available on a lot of line and yeah instance data and in the yang in stated discussion there was talk about how you identify the schema using yang library I think yang packages might be another example which were a good way of defining that schema a better way because it's it's more what you're actually trying to do rather than yang robe it's returning slightly different information and as I mentioned the draft is slightly out of date because it hasn't been updated with the changes that we've done to the module level versioning you say it works but I think it does say yes it's just okay so why do young packages of what we're trying to solve several problems here we want to actually get consistent version sets of modules just versioning modules individually when you have hundreds of them or tens and different organizations becomes too hard it's too complex and it's too likely that different vendors will implement different versions of the same modules and get too many incompatibility so for one vendor that might implement B GB version 2 and Ice PFE one and on different OS or different vendor while does BGP v1 and OSPF v2 yang models and then when it comes to an operator and that to use these well neither those sets are ideal because they can't get a consistent set across both of them if you've got young packages and your and your versioning for like the ITF routing protocols and every time the module gets a new routing module gets updated you add that into the yank package then and a new version that yang packed you've now got a more linear update in terms of how these packages are evolving but you're not fixed to that you can still deviate those the packages that you still use your override and say actually I'm going to support this baseline package with these changed in these differences to it another one another use case for them is to avoid downloading this this full set of modules off the device and having to check your exactly what you want because that's a hard thing to do it'd be much nicer to say actually I support this package or these packages these API is the things I support with these modifications and rather have to do an individual check on every single module either I've got a higher level conversation about the API that you're supporting and as to say and again you can do this with yang library making the schemer available offline so you can check it in advance and you can design your tooling to expect to talk to a device and expect which which API which package version it's using and correlate those is easier than how to deal with full sets of of packages when the full sets of modules when they differ next please so this is just an example I've I've got a simple ITF network device version 1.1.2 there's some metadata description and other information where you can wake and a URL of where to download that package from and that lists a set of modules that implements here and it lists a set of modules our import only and again this could be fully resolved it might not be resolved and the definition includes metadata like URLs where to find it it lists features that mandatory so which features that if you implement this package you are obliged to implement and support it has a list of the imported packages not there's none shown here but list the pictures you importing list the modules that are implemented by that package and the import only module it's a very similar to yang library from that point of view except it recursos and has a list of imported packages and then finally and again it's not shown here is import conflict conflict resolution so if you combine two packages and they each those packages import different versions of modules and you have conflicts so when you do that when your package pulls in two separate packages with conflicts you surface and you specify exactly which version of which module you resolve to next slide please one more slide so this is another example package example ITF basic routing package and this one is importing from Network instant network device is one that 1.2 and then so it lists the extra modules that are implemented as part of that extra imports on top of that and as I said before any version conflicts or change must be explicitly resolved that's that's one thing that's critical here the forgiven package definition the list of modules that it's using is is exactly tightly defined that's the specific versions and the package version indicates the nature of changes in the modules or package imports so the version number that we're using here is again using like a somatic versioning scheme so if you update your package to include a module that's changing a number non box compatible way which in semver would mean going from no 2.00 to 3.0 to 0 then your package would also have a major version change in its version number as well if you had minor version changes in your packages or you own or you're importing more modules in your package definition then you have a minor version change so it's using the same send their ideas and rules and things for doing versioning applied a package level rather than a module level yeah two slides back you said that if you say that you support the package you're obliged to implement all the package versions as they are I just wanna clarify is that include features and or and or deviations so you you what you'd be allowed to do is you've allowed to run the saying you you implement this package you would implement your own package on top of that or they're in they includes this one and then has it extra modules with deviations listed in terms of features you would list the features you support but you're obliged to support the features that are listed here the mandatory features or otherwise deviate those nodes so you can steal these deviations and changes but you have to expect them explicit and then the key issues the key question in terms of updating this draft so the current package draft of actually draft uses yang Simba's the versioning scheme because that was based on the work that we did for ITF 104 where it looked like that was the version seen we were going to use but the latest module level version now has been decoupled so in terms of the module revision handling and it's and its concept of backwards compatible versus non backward but non box collateral changes and you separated from the really the versioning scheme that you're using so yang semver is one of the examples of the version scheme you could use so I think probably it's better for yang packages also to have that same be coupling so for it not to have be hard-coded to a particular semantic versioning scheme but just to say actually it can use any scheme that's partially ordered sets of identifiers to have that more flexibility in to what's in terms of what it's done or in terms of what it uses and allow yang cember as one example of what could be used in that case then the question is is to be is how flex lie you in that how do you do that do you have an identifier or an enumeration to identify the different schemes I'm not sure we want to have a huge proliferation of them because every single different scheme will have impact on clients that need to be able to compare these things so but same time toyotas yang Semba might be a mistake does anyone have any thoughts or pins on us Charles that call for table more like the version of the package as it said it would be ordered so is it implied as the version of the package increases the version of I think entirely decoupled so I think you'd be allowed to there's no correspondence between the package version number and the version numbers inside other than other than the semantic change the package so if you've made a change to the what's included in that package this numbers compatible because you've changed your numbers compared to a module or you've down read the module that would be like a non box non backwards would change to that package definition so it would go from 1 0 0 to 2 0 0 if you were doing a down Rev I think does that answer your question yes any other on this issue at all opinions are you coming up because we're speaking next complete resolution you mentioned I think in one slide between two different packages in a different slide you type one package how do you explicitly yes so you see effectively say on the config resolution say I want to have this particular version and I think I try to remember having read the draft recently I think in terms of import only again you might need to identify which specific import you are overriding and the and the overriding version but it be only other day you're explicitly saying this is the version I'm gonna use in the circumstance I think you are now up so can you elaborate either on your view of the design team view of why you want to allow multiple ways so in terms of the modular version the reason for doing that is because that's what some people wanted they thought that they don't like the yang symbol scheme because they find it too restrictive some people other people think it's not well why don't we just use the standard Semba and I think it's not flexible enough so there's difference opinions as to what version of scheme is required and if you are a vendor and you end up having arbitrary branching of your modules for whatever reason then the semver scheme we defining can't accommodate that deliberately so it's limited deliberately some partial branch but not too much so I think that's the reason we had that separation in the module level stuff and then in terms of packages the question is whether if you've got modules that have that flexibility and you package them together you probably need a versioning scheme for the package has the same number flexibility we progress from the design team to the working group because to the eventual something we submit to the is G we'll really want to think hard about whether we want that flexibility because anytime you have flexibility but that really leads is to interoperability problems and of course the reason we have standards is you know for interoperability so if there's good reason to allow that different off those different options sure but if there's not you know we should think really hard about the cost of that flexibility greatly if you want a question about the different water networks continue question on that conflict so I need werden conflict must be how can we resolve that so if for example this was importing two modules to the two different packages and one of them he was using IETF types version 1 0 0 and up was using ITF types 1 0 1 then this package as well as doing the import would say I'm going to use ITF 1 0 1 as my version for this package then but each pack each tire package each time you're combining modules with two different packages two or more packages you're explicitly resolving that you're specifying exactly which module you're using anything interface Bank on do another module they are not a package need to user interface 2.0 they are not compatible and I hope to use two packages together how do I do that without I think is something you can't do I mean in the day if you're trying to combine different $6 another set foxy application your doctor C library Lipstein southern euros we all pay we have both live in there so you define two packages in that case interface modules - that one though they were a madman but if you've got that sort of splitting your yang ecosystem where you got the modules that that different and there and there's no way you can combine them you got some dependencies on the older than you well you're combining them into one package so if you got dependency says half of my package depending on ITF interfaces one and half as depending on ITF interfaces - and there's significant changes between the two then you've either got to split that and just do them for one and a separate set of packages for the ones that depending on version - you can't you can't magically put those things together this won't fix and the same system together then yang does not allow that yang says you can only implement a single version of a module you can import multiple versions but in terms of implementation you can only forgiving scheme oh you can only implement one version of a yang module actually it's possible if you have two different Netcom for restaurant servers each server can has to have a specific implementation show up in the device but in that case you're in two separate packages working packages sometimes may not be practical too much education about that but it but the same issue exists with using yang libraries is no different in that scenario so you're trying to you can't do it yang packages you means you can't do it young library either there's no fun little difference there it's just how they're being pieced together can you use the mic please only one person can represent can be yes so I'll be presenting the version selection graph on behalf of Robin myself so this slide talks about why are we doing this well this comes from the requirements 3.1 and 3.2 from the requirements draft you spoke about and the what this is basically saying is because yang modules are change in non backwards compatible ways we need to help clients migrate so servers can support multiple versions and help clients select which version they actually want to run with next please so the summary so it allows servers to do non backwards compatible changes without forcing clients to make immediately migrate it does make use of the yang packages draft Rob was presenting earlier and it provides mechanism for servers to advertise what versions of the package is the support and it allows clients to choose among the ones advertised which one they want to run with on the pitch Lee recession next please so before people start throwing bricks servers are not required to concurrently support clients using different schema versions those things are optional servers are not required to support every published version and they are not required to support all parts of all version schema the important thing is when we say support non backwards comes come all changes if you remove functionality in the later yahng yahng yahng version obviously you cannot support the newer one and the older one but in some cases if you've we organized your yang module you've moved your nodes around in a non backwards compatible way the server should be able to support all the older version and the newer version next please okay so the overview which you'll see in the yang tree NEX is you know a version schema it's a yang schema which Rob was talking about with an Associated yang revision that could be the semantic version number in the draft which will be done soon and yes as I said this could be yang package the schema set is a set of related yang schema one per datastore the server support configuration for the default schema and they also support configuration for what we call the secondary and maybe more net confess count instances to use different schema this is done by a port number for both net count and restaurant and for restaurant we also support the the different route path which we source to see like which schema to use this is it for this slide next please and this is basically the schema tree for what I was just describing you can see you know you can you can configure your the schema sets and all that or read/write but in terms of the information per datastore that's all what the system the server decides to support I don't believe we got any comments on the we probably need to do in Ex Rev based on the latest discussions from 104 work and all that and hopefully we'll get this cut will get comments on this draft and the yang packages draft and as Rob was explaining earlier in the next steps for the design team we actually want the this draft which is currently private draft to be part of the design team orc questions don't feel obligated to rename it if you want to rename it that's fine the government okay not to okay and as a contributor seeing the protocol names there alerts me just a little bit macabre scoffs you know what about other like co-op do we have to call out those protocols by name here well if we just support port we don't have to I believe my recollection is they're separated because Raskin has the route path okay support but I mean the route path support has not been discussed maybe we'll take take that out so since they're optional you can still have both of them and then wholly set that when they promote a football yep easy too soon okay that's can do you have a suggestion here of how many think we should attack to know the keystore draft some things you've got more separation so is that what you're suggesting might be a good approach to use it I was leading up to it I was looking at the port and I was wondering what the intention for that port was and why wouldn't we be using the the appropriate client server drafts from my comp oh yeah what's referencing notes directly okay I need that works yeah well I mean so this isn't even adopted work yet but nice and the that working neck off will be done before this and so hopefully it'll be it'll just make sense where I'm set then I actually related to that I think eventually this draft who then would probably end up in good michael wings up with a yang model for [Music] is a microphone hello today I want to introduce a data file unit module for in the measurement okay sis chapter 2 funding model fold is a base the network policy management and it can provide some billete to fold an imagine function to control that information a monitor state changes on the network element and if the sister if the trigger condition be meted and you can perform some simple and instant action and this document has we discussed toys in the working group and the since many people are interested in two interesting related works so we update sir document and in this version made a new leaf a group ID it can be used to group a set of events that can be the group a set of key witnesses can be excute together to perform some specific tasks for example to provides a service assurance and the way also optimized must even leave it moving from action lists to trigger condition lists and allow the one even's trigger to reference nazareth even stuff nation and the way a change stratford condition in choose a variation condition to further clarification difference between poland trigger and the variation trigger and we also simplifies action container in this size will provide our example how to use this module to perform some and here with the fund even a and it's being used to monitor if the trigger a to be we be set up so it can trigger even the B and the even P use a call even if the even exist and there's a polling condition net sending the triggers corresponding action to active standby a fair work okay and we use a group ID to groups is to event to perform the proverb provides a sort of surance a test okay okay it says document have discussed at least it system is already discussed three times and is same some many people are interested in this works so I think maybe we can think about document yes is there somebody comment at the mic processing units just is provide for routing policy and here we use this doc use this module to perform such high service assurance if you here is example if for example food loss package across the street then it can perform the relate action for example logins you lost packet cross their food and then perform some action to Octavian birth of fare over taxes yeah yeah yeah we want to define the more generic model and they can perform provide ability to do service assurance to our munchers yeah I understand your question but here our document ma do not want to coverage routing policies the walks and here is just to provide okay if some condition met and we can do some management walks like starting okay policy documents one of the co-authors I like I just like to state that this is more a data plane document whereas the routing is strictly a control plane policies for a control plane for you know the the selection and complete and redistribution and Newport export complete protocols so there isn't other than in the word policy yes so yes so I understand this record I think I understand this correctly there is no correlation between either work neurotic working group in the policy there using the event condition action as well as well as some constant question and in this work here is that accurate now this work here I would have mixed on standings incorrect is this work just data plank or is admit the general was is it meant for control playing or other usages a single the intention for these the motive actually means that provider of closed loop was of its managing that close to a life cycles of its maximum punishment and so they can Kalu imagine model and probit model so is that using this kind of policy in order so they can trigger the automation so is a management automation is it so is it destined for applications of control planning data plan or up I think not sure we should right next to the control plan but I think that may be happy to the state of a name and imaginary cheapening thank you um who's read Benoit clays so goodnight let's just explain to him some bio information so we created the working group called super in the past by use of policy scratcher structured reaction shamrock was there became an interest raft he has submitted their of the main reference which is then in that super working group the goal must be something generic so they had policy that the routing policies we're going to be using that and security policies to be reusing that yep so now it's in the next right it's based on the policy document which is convert raft but reg do something generic while the world has been moving out so this is like discrepancy well yeah and everyone still needs one of these two for each of their applications um so who's read this it's actually been here twice I believe so far the zero zero and the zero one have been presented here so who has read it either in its present Oh to form or in one of the previous forms okay so some people have read it of those people who have read it actually let's just generalize that let's say yeah who here is interested in the topic and thinks we should do work on it okay no hands went down there so that's a reason that's a reasonable number like that is at least as much attention as many of our drafts get who thinks we should be doing this somewhere else or not at all okay nobody so it sounds like you're probably here for better or worse yeah so we're at a starting point I don't think we will yeah yeah no no we want to pull for working group adoption after this I think you'll be interesting to see how many think this is a starting point we ask that the last meeting and there was a pretty small number you know interesting to see if that changed or there are people who are not on the list of authors presently who are interested in this work with an eye towards participating in any hands for that okay well one partial hand from somebody I greatly respect so I guess that's probably of some value yeah I think we'll probably pull for adoption on the list after the meeting so what it sounds like okay thank you next hi anime based notification and jin-woo is presenting yeah my colleague er is not here I represent his topic my name is him actually the topic is powder empty base notification for antenna based another configuration update actually this job has been around for a while actually moved from net cough actually has already presented twice in tent mode actually my colleague actually revised this chapter base his experience on the network network a conversation very question so we sinker we most negatives job to turn an empty ative actually for actually but you know they can work together with the problem is a negative right now can compare the difference between the datastore by the limitation is the latter type ability to verify whereas an elevation from Indian or other sauce take effect so we we sink so that the the solution we propose is that affine notification actually to reporter this cannon a verification event to check these miscalculation issues but the week not you know check out all these miss conversion issue because for for summer cases may rely on you need to export data from different device so so we gave some cases like you wanna maintain the considered a consistency in network configuration may cover a two different device you want to maintain the consistency as it is something we cannot just use this event and here we gave one use cases and we think we can use a native to compare the antenna with the operational data store and we have two different cases so for some object that may be present in but another present in operational for example you may have an interface but another physical exist so it can exist in antennae but not existing in operational another cases they may present in operational but not a present in intent so typical case actually is interface MTU and so here the maximum weight way proposed actually we need to you know make sure the server can detect the hardware changing so this may rely on the system interaction with the hardware so based on this assumption actually we can detect whether there are some miss compression issues and probably actually here okay we'll get some phrase we can compare the difference between in 10 and operational and we can make sure all this actually caused by some mystery sauce and here is the motor structure we make some change actually we introduce a application tag actually to provide additional to provide a new parameter to identify each update and also we clarified that difference with native and we think this can work together with a nominative and this is the position of the CMD notification on education and we already present this in an outside eye TM meeting and we show how hot the position of this message so this job has been around for a while and we think actually the seems concern synergize with any media first so we want to hear what are you thing about this again yeah so I think the challenge with discussing this since I don't see anyone running to the mic at the moment is that at 104 and 103 there were pretty few people who had read this I guess that is their queen our show of hands of anybody who's read this in either its present form or the I guess o 1 and O 2 versions that are have been present previously prevented presented okay well there's a few does do any of those people have the willingness to express an opinion as to whether or not this more work is worth progressing Rob I'm gonna put you on the spot so I'm not sure it turns off of how I imagine your sisters working I would imagine more that the devices were just monitor operational and monitor the system that way around so rather than getting errors back from the ply failures whether used monitor operational and detect the changes between what you as an operator wanted the device to do and what it's actually doing so that's one observation the other one is I think that it's possibly really hard for some systems to implement this to be able to report back when some of these operations have failed because to be committed to the running datastore the configurations there the actual apply phase with system might go through many different demons and my how other intermediate failures and things like that so I think generally my experience is really hard to track these errors back we've always struggled with this sort of thing so I'm not sure that helps I'm not sure yeah one clarification amusing actually medical computation and verification is very popular that's a lot of you know research on this and you know this seems actually morning--i to this systems data that are put into the operational data store actually we can leverage this network variation Maxim to to do data is possible so that's why I bring up this kind of idea again it's a certain thing for the verification side and check into the verification the configuration is valid what your state's all about completely agree with and that makes sense but in terms of the next set of applying it which is sort of a sickness or semi asynchronous and systems are aware of that's the big thing that's harder than trackback so I think that if you have a simple device you may be able to do that and may have value for that but I think there's many devices that this would be to trigger to do and instead you would you expect the operator to be monitoring the operational safety device and the applied configuration to whether this is happened or not and another observation here is that some things this configuration takes a long time to be applied so so what do you do in that scenario Jim Carrey Nokia so when I read the draft there was a couple things that were it was running through our mind I've just couldn't I just couldn't form an opinion on because what I've seen here is is what we've done in the past is grated up the examples that you use this is well if I have something tonight of the sign oh so did you did and now I'm going to put it and there's a difference between that and call me differences between data source now it's gonna put the easy assignment problem right and in the past we said okay those are just status I'm on the side or not I put my own tl-one things right so that's usually solved in a status type of thing all right so so I was struggling in what we wanted to produce notifications for right typically to produce notifications when there's some sort of mystery but I on a Sunday to be this but someone plug in that right and then I need to get any of that from this particular draft those things where I think it's also saw that those particular notifications are generalized notifications there's notifications in the context of the problem that you're trying to resolve on I'm going to do a quick meet I'm going to do that type of stuff and so I that's what I was like going on I don't know if this will do you realistically if this will be you and you really use because I think it's the problem the maintenance of the use in the and the person or the enemy that's interpreting that is not the server the thing being actuated for the thing that's doing acts like the client and that's that's what I was going through my head as I go through this I go I don't know there's other ways of doing it thank you I think what we're hearing here like is some people who have given this a little thought but they're not they're not necessarily interested in being consumers of it and that would actually I think be the sort of thing that would drive interest or its implementation and refinement and would also get us better feedback so I think um I I think borrowing some kind of expression of interest of that variety on the list this is probably not something that we need to revisit if if you know if we can find that or muster the energy in the community for people who are interested in it then I think it's pretty easy to come back here and go well we've reviewed this enough that we can call for adoption but I don't think we have I don't think we have the level of energy or enthusiasm with respect to being consumers of this that would cause us to to really ask that question at this point okay um thank you for your diligent efforts however yeah thank you to refine this into something and to seek feedback thank you it's in the other room that's not it's noisy so watch their semen on to this one we focus on a transition I'm gay protocol translation you see it yeah I see that okay this is a tumor again and I want to talk about an MD protocol transition issue discussion there's a many discussion here we already have lot of discussion on these kind of issues actually recap a little bit because right now actually Nana colress coming and he has ought to be published and actually right now mostly idea for young anymore should be the NMDA compliant and also there's more young a motor that developers should be done be combined but we still see actually there's some temporary and no MDA actually exist to bridge the capper of the time period and kill them they can be available so we see there's transition stages so our you know confusion is how how so how long is this transition period will will take actually when this can get started when and so so so we have some misconception with sinker the current are empty young town lying actually only provide a guideline for the young trans transition but the tenant provide the transition kind line for the protocols actually so especially another case actually so protocol actually if we forego support empty but you you still can use some Nnamdi modules so so this is something we think maybe there's some gap actually maybe this is a misconception we already discussed this on the man is also offline discussion with several people and so here we give several option you know we have a client actually they can be the MBK liner convenient lambda cannot client for the device who support a net AMD could be the AMD server on and no long an MDA server but in a between we single may be the other cases you know for the server they only implement MDA Maxim but it doesn't implement the button tenant support MDA combined young data model so actually talked with some some people we think the lacing the semi an empty is a very confusion maybe we were Chester you know we can remove these semi MDA so so based on these are some she actually we we sink you know the colonel problem is when the non empty a client they talk to the server who support the Amity and an MBA actually using the traditional get operation you cannot get as a system-generated complication so we try to address these issues we propose a three different solutions so the first one actually you know we can add as a state a copy node in in the inner MTA young big mantra I think this is another good approach it because we already moved to order an MD we add back actually seems you know actually not a reasonable actually but this is the one solution we can using the get operation challenging get operation to care as a system generator the second option is we can you know define the state module state model well using the same structure as an MDA module and this is something already be discussed in mm dae-jung timeline and but the problem is this state of module actually for some cases that you may when we actually move toward an MD for some MD model doesn't define of these stay the module so that will cause you know we when we implement this we need to implement some non-standard state a module so whether we should you know ask all the NMB multi-with you provide us data module so this is a something we single could be the solution but the with this data mode you stay the model we can actually address the problem we can care system generate the confirmation from these data modules the third option actually we can actually you know enhance the get operation to allow uses the traditional ket operation you get a system generated a pattern this actually the impactor is you know only modular post so we think that's possible to actually get but that we simply is very you know the influence we haven't evaluated we Singham maybe it's very hard to see this so we so we we propose these three different solution so so the first question we want to ask is actually church as you know as we assumed actually we may have for for the server name a support semi an MDA so we you know so the question is a supporter you know when when we migrated to the MDA just athos away supporter and MDA protocol like an alcohol rescue empty air support and then we can support a M de young beta model are we when we implement all the other choices that we implement the young Vinney model and MDA protocol at the same time so so so we for the option we we proposed actually we may have three option me we may actually be single we can skip these transition stage if we can go directly to the nmda solution actually this already be done by ITF is a completed standard solution but the we the problem we are facing is we sink we assume many at nanoka line that doesn't support an mp4 right now at this stage here how to migrate it and so we propose the another to option one is option one actually option will actually you may take a one of solution we prefer actually the the solution to actually you may define a state a module but this is not a standard state a module in some cases so another one which has to you know Chester you know agrees there's a transition stage it but there we may be we may have different no standard solution we we can pick oh what do we and take so that's a option we single we can address these kind of issues any comments on this so I mean I I think pragmatically probably something to so I think one Colin here is the potential for a given server or vendor they could have a bespoke in a conflict switch to choose whether it's going in and nmda mode I think for a lot of deployments that's probably sufficient and fine and that the operators would would either upgrade all their clients and won't go or not so to do this in terms of the option to we do there is a specification in the young off guidelines of how to generate that state module that's quite prescriptive and fairly easy steps so one option here could be to say the ITF young modules that we run through that process and we dump those date trees and the names well-defined into github for example and then they're just there so I think that that may be a pragmatic way for it and then the other session I had was I think on vesties in terms of the new young library and get operations used to have a case of where existing gets returns there are the extra spec trees exact estate modules but the new ones also work as before so I think there are ways through this whether we needed another standard or document to define the I don't know yeah the puzzle we're facing is the way which taker the operation to actually we need to you know have a completed standard solution you for every an MD model you should define and stay the module so for some Oh an empty a model they may didn't define the state model such as a motive attack or some maybe some other cases or so that will delay implementation so how do you how do you address these so I think it's just you need to publish a scientific you publishing I took routine - state I think that's okay with the same version number and you follow that also how to generate it and then you've got that state route so even if they are not included with the appendix that module how to construct that equivalent state module is defined so it logically this doesn't just because this is a file somewhere I think two different vendors could apparently generate that same module yeah Tim do you want to go okay so Kent as a contributor so you say agree that there's an NDA a transition period I mean that is in fact what we have right now we are in a in MD a transition period so I don't think there's anything to agree on the you also early on your other slide I think is solution number two you mention the possibility that the bad state module is missing but I think that's a hypothetical like do you actually have an example of dismissing ya Modi tag actually is a typical example that one that particular draft was discussed on this just recently it's okay for that draft not have a - state equivalent because it contains no config false notes and also the has no meaningful operational impact have tracked the operational value of the conviction notes so it's actually allowed to not have a state variant for that draft yeah but I see the nd respond actually he sees is wrong but I don't know but it may be this is another cool example actually we have some other you dumb prods Chester you know operated for some of mmm be compliant model doesn't define state emotive so so these state a mode we should be follows a young and a young kind line and but this is not a standard state Amodeo so it's just that defined in the appendix issue we are free to may be different people given a developer implement in different ways that will cause the you know you know a lot of interoperability issues models that are progressing right now through the ITF that don't have - state that are an FDA compliant yeah I haven't check of these so if that exists we should go back to the working group that's progressing that tell them they they should add - okay unless there's a reason not to and if the ist is processing if the is GE is processing such in in other areas they the ISP should should say you need to get formed with the PCP and it is true that like in tags one of the ways you conform is we've looked at it and don't think it's opiate for this particular module so that's a that's an okay - way to conform with the BCP okay but if it's going on and really this is a comment i Torrini to bring back to the is-3 is please make sure that the PCE is being followed yeah that's a cool situation definitely knew these he says that the I think it's the introduction or the abstract to say that module conforms to NMDA or not it just says to imitate well it should also have in it the thing like we have especially looked at and have concluded that it's not necessary to conform to NMDA so it's explicit supposedly said yeah there's some saying maybe there's something guideline should be modified to just yeah yeah yeah okay but regardless I think what Rob said earlier is that if there isn't missing that state on a published draft we can always retroactively to go back and publish the - state for okay okay okay let me utilize others SPO those were our two great models on my own right so they said oh okay yeah we need your stuff it's all problem who use it well the problem is is that we moved to NDA right there are organizations that said I'm not going to produce a module that has produced eight modules friends of d8 - so their organization - yes yes sir that's the standard operating procedure there are organizations that says that will do them right so there's a problem in the industry that were not consistent on our point of the Rothstein transition to them yet and I would say that as the the authors and the owners that probably has incumbent upon this group us to provide guidance where it's necessary above and beyond now we've done that need some of the some of the guidance I will say the guys in some of the groups that are marketed and looked at that since 1918 and has has made some decisions of it right s - I can't go into too much because of both member organization tree had have made decisions on some sort of some of the decisions that have been made here says everything has to be a state model but they're getting caught up on some of the permutations that human even was missed in earlier drafts which says I got that non on a client's client you know for permutations trying to find the circuitry audience aw server is not defined like in what and they're getting cut up around like some of the operations that we're introduced it so I like my my concern is is that if we don't talk about this I don't know if we've got I don't know if we've got all all the pieces in place that we get from industry the necessary guidance that they need to get through this we're just I think crates tink modules and has to end and look at the existing DCP some say some of the resolutions in this one room was simply okay so we are out of time just quickly so three things one I'm and we'll have to take all this the lists but one I'm wondering if we should consider a flag day something on the order of currently the guideline to say you know as soon as possible but maybe we should as important group say how many years one year two year three years like is there a deadline should there be a deadline if so could we do that secondly Andy had written something - Jabar but we don't have time to go model text and lastly I knew one of the ask if there's some interest in Leia's on to address your issue Tim again we're out of time so we'll take all that to list thank you and there is like a yang next meeting tomorrow morning yeah for that amazing actually there's a young next step meeting on Tuesday morning remember you can check out the wiki page for the side meeting and we will organize this meeting to discuss the summer issue may be related to the I am the transition but not know that is who I actually just so it is a side meeting that and if you're interested in it you should go but it is not one of our things okay thank you if you haven't signed the blue sheet please come up and do so this is your last opportunity From nobody Wed Jul 24 10:28:56 2019 Return-Path: <0100016c25074dba-bffd4eea-f851-4913-83da-df3da8774f76-000000@amazonses.watsen.net> X-Original-To: netmod@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: netmod@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id CEBC01202E3 for ; Wed, 24 Jul 2019 10:28:54 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.897 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.897 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_NONE=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (1024-bit key) header.d=amazonses.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 0I_zJx-YynUa for ; Wed, 24 Jul 2019 10:28:52 -0700 (PDT) Received: from a8-33.smtp-out.amazonses.com (a8-33.smtp-out.amazonses.com [54.240.8.33]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id C5D4312028E for ; Wed, 24 Jul 2019 10:28:52 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; q=dns/txt; c=relaxed/simple; s=6gbrjpgwjskckoa6a5zn6fwqkn67xbtw; d=amazonses.com; t=1563989331; h=From:Message-Id:Content-Type:Mime-Version:Subject:Date:In-Reply-To:Cc:To:References:Feedback-ID; bh=YPgvTPPKB6A+XYEg4BxBNTm3XAmWDtEcRIRUcg8rkoI=; b=kitbNIV9LkjTyxMt+mOhrugj/Ua9G5LThxfnK1SuPHQyMtEGdrjBgJwlq6uDnStG IIa7MOc/bN8WzuFR/EO9E0ANYW6Iuv2OPQ7g/pV5X8i2Ug3e2fiXdoQz0tjslWMBQJ2 TEBns+/70JvNWJGwvMEVgEqyVuDI0pqXlTQI3yZQ= From: Kent Watsen Message-ID: <0100016c25074dba-bffd4eea-f851-4913-83da-df3da8774f76-000000@email.amazonses.com> Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="Apple-Mail=_9BA93241-4BDB-4A39-A9A8-ECACB11205E3" Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 12.4 \(3445.104.11\)) Date: Wed, 24 Jul 2019 17:28:51 +0000 In-Reply-To: <856cce29-f524-be31-b5e5-bcb679721e9a@hq.sk> Cc: Ladislav Lhotka , Andy Bierman , "netmod@ietf.org" To: Robert Varga References: <02c4110737b4ff23f966e6153fad764f04436089.camel@nic.cz> <856cce29-f524-be31-b5e5-bcb679721e9a@hq.sk> X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.3445.104.11) X-SES-Outgoing: 2019.07.24-54.240.8.33 Feedback-ID: 1.us-east-1.DKmIRZFhhsBhtmFMNikgwZUWVrODEw9qVcPhqJEI2DA=:AmazonSES Archived-At: Subject: Re: [netmod] YANG next X-BeenThere: netmod@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: NETMOD WG list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 24 Jul 2019 17:28:55 -0000 --Apple-Mail=_9BA93241-4BDB-4A39-A9A8-ECACB11205E3 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii >>> So you want to work on YANG 1.2, but just the parts you want to = change? ;-) >> I am actually fine with not doing any changes to YANG 1.1 at all, = except perhaps >> bug fixes. This doesn't necessarily mean closing the NETMOD WG, it = would IMO be >> immensely useful to rewrite the language specification and remove = NETCONF- and >> XML-specific part. >=20 > +1. There are plenty of ambiguities and NETCONF/XML pollution in the > spec. Having the specifications in a DAG would be immensely useful :) Agreed and I should've mentioned before that Martin said in Prague that = he'd already started this effort, seeing it as a necessary pre-step = before making other changes. I'm unsure if the intention is to release = this by itself as an RFC 7950 bis but, if looking for a minimal change, = that might be it. The next rung up would be to just add clarifications. = The next rung up from there would be to add only backwards-compatible = changes (currently targeted by [1]). The last rung being to also target = NBC changes (there's no consensus to do this). [1] https://github.com/netmod-wg/yang-next/projects/2 = =20 Kent=20 --Apple-Mail=_9BA93241-4BDB-4A39-A9A8-ECACB11205E3 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/html; charset=us-ascii
So you want to work on YANG 1.2, but just the parts you want = to change? ;-)
I am actually fine with not = doing any changes to YANG 1.1 at all, except perhaps
bug = fixes. This doesn't necessarily mean closing the NETMOD WG, it would IMO = be
immensely useful to rewrite the language specification = and remove NETCONF- and
XML-specific part.

+1. There are plenty of = ambiguities and NETCONF/XML pollution in the
spec. Having = the specifications in a DAG would be immensely useful = :)

Agreed = and I should've mentioned before that Martin said in Prague that he'd = already started this effort, seeing it as a necessary pre-step before = making other changes.  I'm unsure if the intention is to release = this by itself as an RFC 7950 bis but, if looking for a minimal change, = that might be it.  The next rung up would be to just add = clarifications.  The next rung up from there would be to add only = backwards-compatible changes (currently targeted by [1]).  The last = rung being to also target NBC changes (there's no consensus to do = this).

 
Kent 


= --Apple-Mail=_9BA93241-4BDB-4A39-A9A8-ECACB11205E3-- From nobody Wed Jul 24 10:38:00 2019 Return-Path: X-Original-To: netmod@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: netmod@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 35EA1120614 for ; Wed, 24 Jul 2019 10:37:51 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.897 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.897 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_NONE=0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id qr4mtH9rH_2P for ; Wed, 24 Jul 2019 10:37:48 -0700 (PDT) Received: from atlas5.jacobs-university.de (atlas5.jacobs-university.de [212.201.44.20]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ADH-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 8687812061E for ; Wed, 24 Jul 2019 10:37:48 -0700 (PDT) Received: from localhost (demetrius5.irc-it.jacobs-university.de [10.70.0.222]) by atlas5.jacobs-university.de (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3ED5A82D; Wed, 24 Jul 2019 19:37:47 +0200 (CEST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at jacobs-university.de Received: from atlas5.jacobs-university.de ([10.70.0.198]) by localhost (demetrius5.jacobs-university.de [10.70.0.222]) (amavisd-new, port 10032) with ESMTP id QsHw7tNC6y49; Wed, 24 Jul 2019 19:37:47 +0200 (CEST) Received: from hermes.jacobs-university.de (hermes.jacobs-university.de [212.201.44.23]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (Client CN "hermes.jacobs-university.de", Issuer "DFN-Verein Global Issuing CA" (verified OK)) by atlas5.jacobs-university.de (Postfix) with ESMTPS; Wed, 24 Jul 2019 19:37:47 +0200 (CEST) Received: from localhost (demetrius5.irc-it.jacobs-university.de [10.70.0.222]) by hermes.jacobs-university.de (Postfix) with ESMTP id EC2E92012C; Wed, 24 Jul 2019 19:37:46 +0200 (CEST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at jacobs-university.de Received: from hermes.jacobs-university.de ([212.201.44.23]) by localhost (demetrius5.jacobs-university.de [10.70.0.222]) (amavisd-new, port 10028) with ESMTP id uDeFGFw6EV3X; Wed, 24 Jul 2019 19:37:46 +0200 (CEST) Received: from exchange.jacobs-university.de (SXCHMB02.jacobs.jacobs-university.de [10.70.0.121]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (Client CN "exchange.jacobs-university.de", Issuer "DFN-Verein Global Issuing CA" (verified OK)) by hermes.jacobs-university.de (Postfix) with ESMTPS id A488520129; Wed, 24 Jul 2019 19:37:46 +0200 (CEST) Received: from anna.localdomain (10.50.218.117) by sxchmb03.jacobs.jacobs-university.de (10.70.0.155) with Microsoft SMTP Server (version=TLS1_2, cipher=TLS_ECDHE_RSA_WITH_AES_256_GCM_SHA384) id 15.1.1713.5; Wed, 24 Jul 2019 19:37:46 +0200 Received: by anna.localdomain (Postfix, from userid 501) id CCAD434744A; Wed, 24 Jul 2019 19:37:45 +0200 (CEST) Date: Wed, 24 Jul 2019 19:37:45 +0200 From: Juergen Schoenwaelder To: Andy Bierman CC: NETMOD WG Message-ID: <20190724173745.vjb4a5iyyzwg6kle@anna.jacobs.jacobs-university.de> Reply-To: Juergen Schoenwaelder Mail-Followup-To: Andy Bierman , NETMOD WG References: <02c4110737b4ff23f966e6153fad764f04436089.camel@nic.cz> <20190723182304.5yrp54q26zhv7uvb@anna.jacobs.jacobs-university.de> <87sgqvlevh.fsf@nic.cz> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: User-Agent: NeoMutt/20180716 X-ClientProxiedBy: SXCHMB02.jacobs.jacobs-university.de (10.70.0.121) To sxchmb03.jacobs.jacobs-university.de (10.70.0.155) Archived-At: Subject: Re: [netmod] YANG next X-BeenThere: netmod@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: NETMOD WG list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 24 Jul 2019 17:37:55 -0000 On Wed, Jul 24, 2019 at 07:10:23AM -0700, Andy Bierman wrote: > On Wed, Jul 24, 2019 at 6:52 AM Ladislav Lhotka wrote: > > > Juergen Schoenwaelder writes: > > > > > On Tue, Jul 23, 2019 at 02:00:29PM -0400, Ladislav Lhotka wrote: > > >> > > >> This problem is actually not limited to YANG itself - people are > > reporting > > >> problems with the transition to NMDA. > > >> > > > > > > The YANG update from 1 to 1.1 mostly affected compiler writers - and > > > to a much lesser extend module authors and module implementors. NMDA, > > > affects client and server implementors much more directly, additional > > > instrumentation on the server side needs to be written, application > > > logic on the client side needs to be adjusted. NMDA is an evolution of > > > architectural principles and this already indicates that there is a > > > certain investment to make. > > > > But both updates induced some changes in YANG modules that affect users > > and integrators. Take ietf-ospf module as an example: it is of course a > > great addition to the YANG module collection, but in order to use it, all > > tools have to support > > > > - YANG 1.1, e.g. because of the special XPath functions, and > > > > - NMDA, because otherwise state data are missing. > > I believe the majority of parsers (there were not that many) started to support YANG 1.1 quite quickly after RFC publication. NMDA support will take longer and this is not a surprise. To me, it makes sense to distinguish these two updates. And neithers says what the update of YANG next will be. Implementation complexity and transition complexity was one of the things we considered for each YANG 1.1 improvement. /js -- Juergen Schoenwaelder Jacobs University Bremen gGmbH Phone: +49 421 200 3587 Campus Ring 1 | 28759 Bremen | Germany Fax: +49 421 200 3103 From nobody Wed Jul 24 10:48:10 2019 Return-Path: X-Original-To: netmod@ietf.org Delivered-To: netmod@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from ietfa.amsl.com (localhost [IPv6:::1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3CBEC120059; Wed, 24 Jul 2019 10:48:09 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: internet-drafts@ietf.org To: Cc: netmod@ietf.org X-Test-IDTracker: no X-IETF-IDTracker: 6.99.1 Auto-Submitted: auto-generated Precedence: bulk Reply-To: netmod@ietf.org Message-ID: <156399048916.14605.10611496722454064304@ietfa.amsl.com> Date: Wed, 24 Jul 2019 10:48:09 -0700 Archived-At: Subject: [netmod] I-D Action: draft-ietf-netmod-artwork-folding-07.txt X-BeenThere: netmod@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 List-Id: NETMOD WG list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 24 Jul 2019 17:48:09 -0000 A New Internet-Draft is available from the on-line Internet-Drafts directories. This draft is a work item of the Network Modeling WG of the IETF. Title : Handling Long Lines in Inclusions in Internet-Drafts and RFCs Authors : Kent Watsen Adrian Farrel Qin Wu Filename : draft-ietf-netmod-artwork-folding-07.txt Pages : 27 Date : 2019-07-24 Abstract: This document defines two strategies for handling long lines in width-bounded text content. One strategy is based on the historic use of a single backslash ('\') character to indicate where line- folding has occurred, with the continuation occurring with the first non-space (' ') character on the next line. The second strategy extends the first strategy by adding a second backslash character to identify where the continuation begins and thereby able to handle cases not supported by the first strategy. Both strategies use a self-describing header enabling automated reconstitution of the original content. The IETF datatracker status page for this draft is: https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-netmod-artwork-folding/ There are also htmlized versions available at: https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-netmod-artwork-folding-07 https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/html/draft-ietf-netmod-artwork-folding-07 A diff from the previous version is available at: https://www.ietf.org/rfcdiff?url2=draft-ietf-netmod-artwork-folding-07 Please note that it may take a couple of minutes from the time of submission until the htmlized version and diff are available at tools.ietf.org. Internet-Drafts are also available by anonymous FTP at: ftp://ftp.ietf.org/internet-drafts/ From nobody Wed Jul 24 11:32:41 2019 Return-Path: X-Original-To: netmod@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: netmod@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id D93C5120141 for ; Wed, 24 Jul 2019 11:32:39 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.898 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.898 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=yumaworks-com.20150623.gappssmtp.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id DNZsglem8bSf for ; Wed, 24 Jul 2019 11:32:37 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail-lf1-x131.google.com (mail-lf1-x131.google.com [IPv6:2a00:1450:4864:20::131]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 7FAA8120059 for ; Wed, 24 Jul 2019 11:32:37 -0700 (PDT) Received: by mail-lf1-x131.google.com with SMTP id c19so32627924lfm.10 for ; Wed, 24 Jul 2019 11:32:37 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=yumaworks-com.20150623.gappssmtp.com; s=20150623; h=mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date:message-id:subject:to :cc; bh=DgBw0PQaBQxSCCXVf4mijOjTvp4zO3XeBIkExj1/x/I=; b=uR1D8Rkfw0nimVH/GYxYsd8Qhi2PPOhXO1Od/BCtEJm3NlyXdESKaQohHM9G3qKRMK a4qKdq/dj2NXS6+WpxVN8wesXMFRRPcGwtDkerTXvmnEhb9FrIXKIArSXOkTMIBLj5tO Ifx1HuZCzFrbKpYiavRzB8+LB4YcYxIdfAuK8PVe1+wFc9wPrwQFYDrhYSEgMlJk5b5X luiYyfRBMR9OYnLhlrs6HsvP8ZjlXXe9qJI8c9GwoU63TEn6KCXp6I1hqz+cfHGLcdVu iQeGT3CPrLPX2pBaPABlphIVKEIX8cm2yIz8REwkuyuKL7e9PunmnWoQVFt/rBPljwu6 uSZA== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date :message-id:subject:to:cc; bh=DgBw0PQaBQxSCCXVf4mijOjTvp4zO3XeBIkExj1/x/I=; b=CIO4pKPFa7KVNpGiNbC+nq7CMHxkGzsLYDyRWM3T9vZ8VdP+Zv38cBm7sYgtGDrcwT /2WtQtu9zsE1FDSYIRDSd40x+rb5ABkXRzZKtVLYOy6sjvuQD9U4JlNhPu4ZShWsZduC erIm2Y5taYafbGE3OykkFOkEgnGwjQnPSUc3Ua+3DB4GV6II6mWEfrzgWWJ8BqNQulda Oewmzrxygq1vmSAu3r/289AWDNpVsH3Wvx9ikznWQ19iHyDAI2ms6avfNeEXeDO+k9Bu vfJB/cyr7FnJZIo0gAlUaZtuANlL9IBMJmolXS1Oy/ukroYMsir3VqZsboaTW5TWlrca xoJw== X-Gm-Message-State: APjAAAXVyKU3MdjH90Jos+CJjRr9ajbj4IfQ0Xl89QwsS//49zv1zfRf 4tMQQWPtv8JjaUNSqeAXQucO5MVZVoQHXdmfwQCJDA== X-Google-Smtp-Source: APXvYqyo+o91B2pW/6U3qLesyWq2GQcQ4WXqiOoWuZYU/0k8n9L876pjhAWcFgmNDGkR4fJOBLg+sdhNXU4fA9L6mNQ= X-Received: by 2002:ac2:4202:: with SMTP id y2mr4723731lfh.178.1563993155547; Wed, 24 Jul 2019 11:32:35 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 References: <02c4110737b4ff23f966e6153fad764f04436089.camel@nic.cz> <856cce29-f524-be31-b5e5-bcb679721e9a@hq.sk> <0100016c25074dba-bffd4eea-f851-4913-83da-df3da8774f76-000000@email.amazonses.com> In-Reply-To: <0100016c25074dba-bffd4eea-f851-4913-83da-df3da8774f76-000000@email.amazonses.com> From: Andy Bierman Date: Wed, 24 Jul 2019 11:32:24 -0700 Message-ID: To: Kent Watsen Cc: Robert Varga , Ladislav Lhotka , "netmod@ietf.org" Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="00000000000077d2ab058e718890" Archived-At: Subject: Re: [netmod] YANG next X-BeenThere: netmod@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: NETMOD WG list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 24 Jul 2019 18:32:40 -0000 --00000000000077d2ab058e718890 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" On Wed, Jul 24, 2019 at 10:28 AM Kent Watsen wrote: > > So you want to work on YANG 1.2, but just the parts you want to change? ;-) > > I am actually fine with not doing any changes to YANG 1.1 at all, except > perhaps > bug fixes. This doesn't necessarily mean closing the NETMOD WG, it would > IMO be > immensely useful to rewrite the language specification and remove NETCONF- > and > XML-specific part. > > > +1. There are plenty of ambiguities and NETCONF/XML pollution in the > spec. Having the specifications in a DAG would be immensely useful :) > > > Agreed and I should've mentioned before that Martin said in Prague that > he'd already started this effort, seeing it as a necessary pre-step before > making other changes. I'm unsure if the intention is to release this by > itself as an RFC 7950 bis but, if looking for a minimal change, that might > be it. The next rung up would be to just add clarifications. The next > rung up from there would be to add only backwards-compatible changes > (currently targeted by [1]). The last rung being to also target NBC > changes (there's no consensus to do this). > > This WG sure likes to spend time refactoring documents. Moving lots of text will create bugs and strong coupling, and only help the standards purists. It will be a lot of work for the WG and IESG to review such a massive document split, and in the end we have no improvement in YANG, just more RFCs to read. Andy [1] https://github.com/netmod-wg/yang-next/projects/2 > > Kent > > > --00000000000077d2ab058e718890 Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable


=
On Wed, Jul 24, 2019 at 10:28 AM Kent= Watsen <kent@watsen.net> wrot= e:

<= blockquote type=3D"cite">
So you want to work on Y= ANG 1.2, but just the parts you want to change? ;-)
I am ac= tually fine with not doing any changes to YANG 1.1 at all, except perhapsbug fixes. This doesn't necessarily mean closing the NETMOD WG, it wo= uld IMO be
immensely useful to rewrite the language specification and re= move NETCONF- and
XML-specific part.

+1. There are p= lenty of ambiguities and NETCONF/XML pollution in the
spec. Having the s= pecifications in a DAG would be immensely useful :)

Agreed and I should've mentioned before that= Martin said in Prague that he'd already started this effort, seeing it= as a necessary pre-step before making other changes.=C2=A0 I'm unsure = if the intention is to release this by itself as an RFC 7950 bis but, if lo= oking for a minimal change, that might be it.=C2=A0 The next rung up would = be to just add clarifications.=C2=A0 The next rung up from there would be t= o add only backwards-compatible changes (currently targeted by [1]).=C2=A0 = The last rung being to also target NBC changes (there's no consensus to= do this).


This = WG sure likes to spend time refactoring documents.
Moving lots of= text will create bugs and strong coupling, and only help the standards pur= ists.
It will be a lot of work for the WG and IESG to review such= a massive document split,
and in the end we have no improvement = in YANG, just more RFCs to read.

Andy
--00000000000077d2ab058e718890-- From nobody Wed Jul 24 11:46:10 2019 Return-Path: X-Original-To: netmod@ietf.org Delivered-To: netmod@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from ietfa.amsl.com (localhost [IPv6:::1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id CB8D3120424; Wed, 24 Jul 2019 11:46:03 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: Lou Berger via Datatracker To: X-Test-IDTracker: no X-IETF-IDTracker: 6.99.1 Auto-Submitted: auto-generated Precedence: bulk Cc: netmod-chairs@ietf.org, lberger@labn.net, iesg-secretary@ietf.org, netmod@ietf.org, Lou Berger Message-ID: <156399396382.14640.6296104252128690083.idtracker@ietfa.amsl.com> Date: Wed, 24 Jul 2019 11:46:03 -0700 Archived-At: Subject: [netmod] Publication has been requested for draft-ietf-netmod-artwork-folding-07 X-BeenThere: netmod@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 List-Id: NETMOD WG list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 24 Jul 2019 18:46:09 -0000 Lou Berger has requested publication of draft-ietf-netmod-artwork-folding-07 as Best Current Practice on behalf of the NETMOD working group. Please verify the document's state at https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-netmod-artwork-folding/ From nobody Wed Jul 24 13:37:39 2019 Return-Path: X-Original-To: netmod@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: netmod@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id DDC92120623 for ; Wed, 24 Jul 2019 13:37:37 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.997 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.997 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_NONE=0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (1024-bit key) header.d=hq.sk Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id exjJK6wcFFMB for ; Wed, 24 Jul 2019 13:37:35 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail.hq.sk (hq.sk [81.89.59.181]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher AECDH-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 1F80F120494 for ; Wed, 24 Jul 2019 13:37:33 -0700 (PDT) Received: from nitebug.nitenet.local (chello085216197060.chello.sk [85.216.197.60]) by mail.hq.sk (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id E75E124294C; Wed, 24 Jul 2019 22:37:30 +0200 (CEST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/simple; d=hq.sk; s=mail; t=1564000651; bh=izM6P96NH0+rePmVzvu5+XdwQxn6hZiicVhZ4A7PWKM=; h=Subject:To:Cc:References:From:Date:In-Reply-To; b=Bp7CyZXLVvoYyR5LLMVWZcAbuQ6C+bBJAGJxzbvw6Y0QKpXvZtWEIro/tkKe8sW5m OIcLdxe8q/CsSgkC7zXLedGPnod4drqXK0/glJ2fiIJeWviHYsp1/OHgAv8vEGIPvN KjEUlmSFmfF7greAJKlHJW3IO6vmRHe8MUO2o4Eo= To: Andy Bierman , Kent Watsen Cc: Ladislav Lhotka , "netmod@ietf.org" References: <02c4110737b4ff23f966e6153fad764f04436089.camel@nic.cz> <856cce29-f524-be31-b5e5-bcb679721e9a@hq.sk> <0100016c25074dba-bffd4eea-f851-4913-83da-df3da8774f76-000000@email.amazonses.com> From: Robert Varga Openpgp: preference=signencrypt Message-ID: <9d817e6a-3df5-aebc-2380-e12cb98ec7d5@hq.sk> Date: Wed, 24 Jul 2019 22:37:24 +0200 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; Linux x86_64; rv:60.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/60.8.0 MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: Content-Type: multipart/signed; micalg=pgp-sha512; protocol="application/pgp-signature"; boundary="v3sSeUqGA6GEd77US0ZfK5ROdVAHX4Nkm" Archived-At: Subject: Re: [netmod] YANG next X-BeenThere: netmod@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: NETMOD WG list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 24 Jul 2019 20:37:38 -0000 This is an OpenPGP/MIME signed message (RFC 4880 and 3156) --v3sSeUqGA6GEd77US0ZfK5ROdVAHX4Nkm Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="sJeHKJikvS4RiueH2hLZdAZ5lvSLHjvBq"; protected-headers="v1" From: Robert Varga To: Andy Bierman , Kent Watsen Cc: Ladislav Lhotka , "netmod@ietf.org" Message-ID: <9d817e6a-3df5-aebc-2380-e12cb98ec7d5@hq.sk> Subject: Re: [netmod] YANG next References: <02c4110737b4ff23f966e6153fad764f04436089.camel@nic.cz> <856cce29-f524-be31-b5e5-bcb679721e9a@hq.sk> <0100016c25074dba-bffd4eea-f851-4913-83da-df3da8774f76-000000@email.amazonses.com> In-Reply-To: --sJeHKJikvS4RiueH2hLZdAZ5lvSLHjvBq Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Language: en-US Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable On 24/07/2019 20:32, Andy Bierman wrote: > On Wed, Jul 24, 2019 at 10:28 AM Kent Watsen > wrote: >=20 >=20 >>>> So you want to work on YANG 1.2, but just the parts you want to >>>> change? ;-) >>> I am actually fine with not doing any changes to YANG 1.1 at all,= >>> except perhaps >>> bug fixes. This doesn't necessarily mean closing the NETMOD WG, >>> it would IMO be >>> immensely useful to rewrite the language specification and remove= >>> NETCONF- and >>> XML-specific part. >> >> +1. There are plenty of ambiguities and NETCONF/XML pollution in t= he >> spec. Having the specifications in a DAG would be immensely useful= :) >=20 > Agreed and I should've mentioned before that Martin said in Prague > that he'd already started this effort, seeing it as a necessary > pre-step before making other changes.=C2=A0 I'm unsure if the inten= tion > is to release this by itself as an RFC 7950 bis but, if looking for= > a minimal change, that might be it.=C2=A0 The next rung up would be= to > just add clarifications.=C2=A0 The next rung up from there would be= to > add only backwards-compatible changes (currently targeted by [1]).=C2= =A0 > The last rung being to also target NBC changes (there's no consensu= s > to do this). >=20 >=20 > This WG sure likes to spend time refactoring documents. Sorry, I am not watching very closely so I have not noticed. I regard the NETCONF coupling in RFC6020/RFC7950 as technical debt, which when addressed will allow us to have better discussions about modeling intent vs. XML representation. > Moving lots of text will create bugs and strong coupling, and only help= > the standards purists. Not necessarily. I agree with limiting the amount (and type) of text being moved and modifications done in between. > It will be a lot of work for the WG and IESG to review such a massive > document split, > and in the end we have no improvement in YANG, just more RFCs to read. No improvement in to YANG in terms of number of features, yes. Even if it ends up being more documents, if they are smaller and more logically structured, they are more approachable. Reading RFC7950 (216 pages) is far from sufficient for understanding YANG, as you also need to understand NETCONF, which leads you down the RFC6241 rabbit hole. If we can get a more approachable first document, lowering the entry barrier will be beneficial to people outside the WG(s). Regards, Robert --sJeHKJikvS4RiueH2hLZdAZ5lvSLHjvBq-- --v3sSeUqGA6GEd77US0ZfK5ROdVAHX4Nkm Content-Type: application/pgp-signature; name="signature.asc" Content-Description: OpenPGP digital signature Content-Disposition: attachment; filename="signature.asc" -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- iQI/BAEBCgApFiEEdj+N7pgGP1gKvbdQJKB0S2uuNdsFAl04wYQLHG5pdGVAaHEu c2sACgkQJKB0S2uuNdtQWBAAuYJaoHUrpJFXk2En0rOrvTFxNPTMwgtfGGfW/UXK 8C90/heXlMgJZ5T0zt/nIUh0zqknyne4kTz2rsexTpBLe51rMSaVtrkfIGLTwaUi DhzWmiiSuya1vNtNpEqCA1dkxARC0tYw+JOqvyHjTNmImGIZeuO6Yp6CVG+RnM3u ry3r1js8oeevqsE7A25o3Ds/BImIGuyHqmPe4JrsPawYSYeZUoU29S/5sv22eyiN fFVDr8KGygXjiDn6y/IZ7KSs5MFSbyg/A6XHZkEiGwCu1WjcjL+5s42/zgR0bpAC BfsH9tDvFvqqfioJi/Pi7ckI2LGcKWagqF6tROmqrTMebySG/deVEYApIHzo2GBb 2aYg4w+jixu1WSYCwWBodatMPkbLnXDjLZwBxwluew+vdKg+NXjTQEVKOoVu9+j4 PqzoLceWxpRWdka3EoCvk6L7RyZD0xcNcIIUc0cxYngAKUdG1RhOwKSRUY3TKEAY 2SeEpFvtF6B8U0muUPtkRBiIShV057NZCjMXW4a75YB6lx4O2ac2C8SZAjEThQAv wp3s6J//c8Lb3MinprsKfHjYS4cr6AbapQH7WVRQCrZ++r2/srpx6tGt+ieA1FV5 EKe/5ZcNGRrQv0ytBxacJ15z+CNzGBOJVr15qQt8sPeZp4Qx1atB6ez95eYkgpGH i4M= =yO5f -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --v3sSeUqGA6GEd77US0ZfK5ROdVAHX4Nkm-- From nobody Wed Jul 24 13:38:27 2019 Return-Path: X-Original-To: netmod@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: netmod@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id E2C00120637 for ; 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charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable +1, Balazs =20 From: netmod On Behalf Of Andy Bierman Sent: 2019. j=C3=BAlius 24., szerda 14:32 To: Kent Watsen Cc: netmod@ietf.org Subject: Re: [netmod] YANG next =20 =20 =20 On Wed, Jul 24, 2019 at 10:28 AM Kent Watsen > wrote: =20 So you want to work on YANG 1.2, but just the parts you want to change? = ;-) I am actually fine with not doing any changes to YANG 1.1 at all, except = perhaps bug fixes. This doesn't necessarily mean closing the NETMOD WG, it would = IMO be immensely useful to rewrite the language specification and remove = NETCONF- and XML-specific part. +1. There are plenty of ambiguities and NETCONF/XML pollution in the spec. Having the specifications in a DAG would be immensely useful :) =20 Agreed and I should've mentioned before that Martin said in Prague that = he'd already started this effort, seeing it as a necessary pre-step = before making other changes. I'm unsure if the intention is to release = this by itself as an RFC 7950 bis but, if looking for a minimal change, = that might be it. The next rung up would be to just add clarifications. = The next rung up from there would be to add only backwards-compatible = changes (currently targeted by [1]). The last rung being to also target = NBC changes (there's no consensus to do this). =20 =20 This WG sure likes to spend time refactoring documents. Moving lots of text will create bugs and strong coupling, and only help = the standards purists. It will be a lot of work for the WG and IESG to review such a massive = document split, and in the end we have no improvement in YANG, just more RFCs to read. =20 Andy =20 [1] https://github.com/netmod-wg/yang-next/projects/2 = =20 =20 Kent=20 =20 =20 ------=_NextPart_001_049A_01D5423E.319FCEE0 Content-Type: text/html; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

+1, = Balazs

 

From: netmod <netmod-bounces@ietf.org> = On Behalf Of Andy Bierman
Sent: 2019. j=C3=BAlius 24., = szerda 14:32
To: Kent Watsen = <kent@watsen.net>
Cc: netmod@ietf.org
Subject: = Re: [netmod] YANG next

 

 

 

On = Wed, Jul 24, 2019 at 10:28 AM Kent Watsen <kent@watsen.net> = wrote:

 

So = you want to work on YANG 1.2, but just the parts you want to change? = ;-)

I am actually fine = with not doing any changes to YANG 1.1 at all, except perhaps
bug = fixes. This doesn't necessarily mean closing the NETMOD WG, it would IMO = be
immensely useful to rewrite the language specification and remove = NETCONF- and
XML-specific part.


+1. There are plenty of ambiguities and = NETCONF/XML pollution in the
spec. Having the specifications in a DAG = would be immensely useful = :)

 

Agreed and I should've mentioned before that Martin = said in Prague that he'd already started this effort, seeing it as a = necessary pre-step before making other changes.  I'm unsure if the = intention is to release this by itself as an RFC 7950 bis but, if = looking for a minimal change, that might be it.  The next rung up = would be to just add clarifications.  The next rung up from there = would be to add only backwards-compatible changes (currently targeted by = [1]).  The last rung being to also target NBC changes (there's no = consensus to do this).

 

 

This WG sure likes to spend time refactoring = documents.

Moving lots of = text will create bugs and strong coupling, and only help the standards = purists.

It will be a lot = of work for the WG and IESG to review such a massive document = split,

and in the end we = have no improvement in YANG, just more RFCs to = read.

 

Andy

 

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netmod@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8A4AA120625 for ; Wed, 24 Jul 2019 18:18:20 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -6.997 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-6.997 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_HI=-5, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_NONE=0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (1024-bit key) header.d=nic.cz Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id ZAxOm6pNpvyx for ; Wed, 24 Jul 2019 18:18:18 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail.nic.cz (mail.nic.cz [IPv6:2001:1488:800:400::400]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id EEC3E1200B9 for ; Wed, 24 Jul 2019 18:18:17 -0700 (PDT) Received: from birdie (unknown [IPv6:2001:67c:1232:144:1a4f:a84b:2bfd:c611]) by mail.nic.cz (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 0A67D140B73; Thu, 25 Jul 2019 03:18:13 +0200 (CEST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/simple; d=nic.cz; s=default; t=1564017494; bh=6rcqz5YmFCpv7cX+eZE1QX7P9udiCG5Y7h2NS9B60+c=; h=From:To:Date; b=LvyzjQ3qNLx0rXrajHxCvK1PmEH7c41+DT5UaSs61V151B6pJXvD5oUW9AL4+47fM 5/EiraFSddQc1SdsihXgJmxJpzachDiB4+ORDON9O+tJNDjikFmf8W+smIDuVcg9GQ sFgPaOh7pdRU8JJx7JA8/CQYp5vO/yDKO/A4qZxw= Message-ID: <8548e1419a4c6d39223b3ea05f8749e59ca14344.camel@nic.cz> From: Ladislav Lhotka To: Robert Varga , Andy Bierman , Kent Watsen Cc: "netmod@ietf.org" Date: Wed, 24 Jul 2019 21:18:12 -0400 In-Reply-To: <9d817e6a-3df5-aebc-2380-e12cb98ec7d5@hq.sk> References: <02c4110737b4ff23f966e6153fad764f04436089.camel@nic.cz> <856cce29-f524-be31-b5e5-bcb679721e9a@hq.sk> <0100016c25074dba-bffd4eea-f851-4913-83da-df3da8774f76-000000@email.amazonses.com> <9d817e6a-3df5-aebc-2380-e12cb98ec7d5@hq.sk> Organization: CZ.NIC Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" User-Agent: Evolution 3.32.4 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Virus-Scanned: clamav-milter 0.100.3 at mail.nic.cz X-Virus-Status: Clean Archived-At: Subject: Re: [netmod] YANG next X-BeenThere: netmod@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: NETMOD WG list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 25 Jul 2019 01:18:20 -0000 On Wed, 2019-07-24 at 22:37 +0200, Robert Varga wrote: > On 24/07/2019 20:32, Andy Bierman wrote: > > On Wed, Jul 24, 2019 at 10:28 AM Kent Watsen > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > So you want to work on YANG 1.2, but just the parts you want to > > > > > change? ;-) > > > > I am actually fine with not doing any changes to YANG 1.1 at all, > > > > except perhaps > > > > bug fixes. This doesn't necessarily mean closing the NETMOD WG, > > > > it would IMO be > > > > immensely useful to rewrite the language specification and remove > > > > NETCONF- and > > > > XML-specific part. > > > > > > +1. There are plenty of ambiguities and NETCONF/XML pollution in the > > > spec. Having the specifications in a DAG would be immensely useful :) > > > > Agreed and I should've mentioned before that Martin said in Prague > > that he'd already started this effort, seeing it as a necessary > > pre-step before making other changes. I'm unsure if the intention > > is to release this by itself as an RFC 7950 bis but, if looking for > > a minimal change, that might be it. The next rung up would be to > > just add clarifications. The next rung up from there would be to > > add only backwards-compatible changes (currently targeted by [1]). > > The last rung being to also target NBC changes (there's no consensus > > to do this). > > > > > > This WG sure likes to spend time refactoring documents. > > Sorry, I am not watching very closely so I have not noticed. > > I regard the NETCONF coupling in RFC6020/RFC7950 as technical debt, > which when addressed will allow us to have better discussions about > modeling intent vs. XML representation. Absolutely. Also note that in RFC 7950 we even don't have a sound definition of an instance data tree. > > > Moving lots of text will create bugs and strong coupling, and only help > > the standards purists. > > Not necessarily. I agree with limiting the amount (and type) of text > being moved and modifications done in between. > > > It will be a lot of work for the WG and IESG to review such a massive > > document split, > > and in the end we have no improvement in YANG, just more RFCs to read. > > No improvement in to YANG in terms of number of features, yes. > > Even if it ends up being more documents, if they are smaller and more > logically structured, they are more approachable. Right. The base YANG spec should only define the language and rules for validating instance data. > > Reading RFC7950 (216 pages) is far from sufficient for understanding > YANG, as you also need to understand NETCONF, which leads you down the > RFC6241 rabbit hole. > > If we can get a more approachable first document, lowering the entry > barrier will be beneficial to people outside the WG(s). I again fully agree. The entry barrier is unnecessarily high, which may not be apparent to vintage members of the NETCONF/NETMOD gang. Lada > > Regards, > Robert > -- Ladislav Lhotka Head, CZ.NIC Labs PGP Key ID: 0xB8F92B08A9F76C67 From nobody Wed Jul 24 21:44:20 2019 Return-Path: X-Original-To: netmod@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: netmod@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id B01E3120047; Wed, 24 Jul 2019 21:44:07 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -4.197 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-4.197 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-2.3, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_NONE=0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id j5AE29BPapax; Wed, 24 Jul 2019 21:44:05 -0700 (PDT) Received: from gabriel-vm-2.zfn.uni-bremen.de (gabriel-vm-2.zfn.uni-bremen.de [134.102.50.17]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher AECDH-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 70EA612001E; Wed, 24 Jul 2019 21:44:05 -0700 (PDT) Received: from dhcp-9abf.meeting.ietf.org (dhcp-9abf.meeting.ietf.org [31.133.154.191]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by gabriel-vm-2.zfn.uni-bremen.de (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 45vKNz01sWzylL; Thu, 25 Jul 2019 06:44:02 +0200 (CEST) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 11.5 \(3445.9.1\)) From: Carsten Bormann In-Reply-To: <5B9F7D96-8E1D-4B04-8F48-0BD165E28F73@tzi.org> Date: Thu, 25 Jul 2019 00:44:00 -0400 Cc: Netconf , NETMOD WG , yot@ietf.org X-Mao-Original-Outgoing-Id: 585722638.705287-ac0762aa85689b1cf8d63e5de1103054 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Message-Id: References: <5B9F7D96-8E1D-4B04-8F48-0BD165E28F73@tzi.org> To: core X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.3445.9.1) Archived-At: Subject: Re: [netmod] =?utf-8?q?=F0=9F=94=94_CoRE_Working_Group_Adoption_call?= =?utf-8?q?_for_draft-veillette-core-yang-library-05=2Etxt?= X-BeenThere: netmod@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: NETMOD WG list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 25 Jul 2019 04:44:08 -0000 So this was a very thin response on a WG adoption call on the mailing = list, but given the sense of the room on Tuesday, I think we can accept = this as a WG draft. We do have the WG last call as another formal opportunity to stop this = if it turns out this can be done in a way that preserves full = compatibility with RFC 8525. We are now waiting for a final WGLC-ready I-D version of yang-cbor (one = internal author review is outstanding), and then will WGLC the whole = cluster (yang-cbor, sid, comi, core-yang-library) in the CoRE WG with a = CC to the CCs of this mail. This WGLC will not go through without a number of high-quality reviews. Gr=C3=BC=C3=9Fe, Carsten > On Jul 11, 2019, at 09:44, Carsten Bormann wrote: >=20 > RFC 8525 defines a YANG data model for information about the YANG = modules, datastores, and datastore schemas used by a network management = server. This data model is based on string representations of YANG = identifiers. >=20 > To be more useful in a constrained environment (CoRECONF/COMI), it is = useful to have a YANG data model that can employ the efficiency of SIDs = (draft-ietf-core-sid). draft-veillette-core-yang-library-05.txt = provides a straightforward translation of RFC 8525 to SID-based = identification, with some legacy support removed and some other = efficiencies added. This specification complements the three other = CoRECONF specifications draft-ietf-core-yang-cbor, draft-ietf-core-sid, = and draft-ietf-core-comi, which we hope to ship soon. >=20 > This starts a one-week working group adoption call. > This is a formal call for adoption of this draft as a WG document of = the CoRE WG. > If you have read the draft and support adopting it, please say so. > If you see a problem with adopting it as a WG document, please tell = us. > For both, remember that WG adoption does not mean that we already have = consensus on all the details(*), just that this is the right working = document to address the issue (and that we should address the issue in = the first place); you are encouraged to mention any issues that you = already know. >=20 > This WGA call is CCed to the netconf and netmod working groups, as the = expertise about YANG modules is focused there, as well as the = yang-of-things non-WG mailing list. Please respond to core@ietf.org, or = exceptionally to core-chairs@ietf.org (for off-list comments). >=20 > This formal WG adoption call runs until the end of July 18th. >=20 > Gr=C3=BC=C3=9Fe, Carsten >=20 > (*) say, is the module-set index really limited to an 8-bit number? >=20 >=20 >=20 From nobody Thu Jul 25 05:56:28 2019 Return-Path: X-Original-To: netmod@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: netmod@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id EF92F12015F for ; Thu, 25 Jul 2019 05:56:26 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -14.499 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-14.499 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_HI=-5, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001, USER_IN_DEF_DKIM_WL=-7.5] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass 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2019 12:56:20.6587 (UTC) X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-fromentityheader: Hosted X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-id: 5ae1af62-9505-4097-a69a-c1553ef7840e X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-mailboxtype: HOSTED X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-userprincipalname: rwilton@cisco.com X-MS-Exchange-Transport-CrossTenantHeadersStamped: BYAPR11MB3174 X-OriginatorOrg: cisco.com X-Outbound-SMTP-Client: 173.37.102.15, xch-rcd-005.cisco.com X-Outbound-Node: rcdn-core-7.cisco.com Archived-At: Subject: Re: [netmod] YANG next X-BeenThere: netmod@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: NETMOD WG list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 25 Jul 2019 12:56:27 -0000 --_000_BYAPR11MB26313098C4AABAF268329BDCB5C10BYAPR11MB2631namp_ Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 SSBhbHNvIHRoaW5rIHRoYXQgdGhlcmUgaXMgc2lnbmlmaWNhbnQgdmFsdWUgdG8gc3BsaXR0aW5n 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Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0A285120073 for ; Thu, 25 Jul 2019 06:24:15 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -6.997 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-6.997 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_HI=-5, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_NONE=0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (1024-bit key) header.d=nic.cz Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id Kxlbdo54w_T1 for ; Thu, 25 Jul 2019 06:24:12 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail.nic.cz (mail.nic.cz [217.31.204.67]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 3592D12002E for ; Thu, 25 Jul 2019 06:24:12 -0700 (PDT) Received: from birdie (unknown [IPv6:2001:67c:1232:144:1a4f:a84b:2bfd:c611]) by mail.nic.cz (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 1FD6F140B93 for ; Thu, 25 Jul 2019 15:24:10 +0200 (CEST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/simple; d=nic.cz; s=default; t=1564061050; bh=+2HCmlA89AaEq6fzFkl2FxK89Kta+J92eZ/Ic/AczdM=; h=From:To:Date; b=XF6rsAcQY1erLXBnfmKXYphpkHd19t7726V4eeCoDtxEanQ6ieqFza4+LhtJHABLO AexGsxF3qZvrYpYipOPm5h/8r8LFhVm08Mv/AvgSzr2rd7lyusHE9vZpAgXPHpMGPY +wZ+y+BxLUG2C7JNosSeXM2DqMvoQzT++U/Yv0mY= Message-ID: <1c4835ea579d85e2619936b14be44e517ab52aed.camel@nic.cz> From: Ladislav Lhotka To: netmod@ietf.org Date: Thu, 25 Jul 2019 09:24:08 -0400 In-Reply-To: References: <02c4110737b4ff23f966e6153fad764f04436089.camel@nic.cz> <856cce29-f524-be31-b5e5-bcb679721e9a@hq.sk> <0100016c25074dba-bffd4eea-f851-4913-83da-df3da8774f76-000000@email.amazonses.com> Organization: CZ.NIC Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" User-Agent: Evolution 3.32.4 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Virus-Scanned: clamav-milter 0.100.3 at mail.nic.cz X-Virus-Status: Clean Archived-At: Subject: Re: [netmod] YANG next X-BeenThere: netmod@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: NETMOD WG list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 25 Jul 2019 13:24:15 -0000 On Thu, 2019-07-25 at 12:56 +0000, Rob Wilton (rwilton) wrote: > I also think that there is significant value to splitting the NETCONF and XML > specification out of RFC 7950 (but keeping XML examples). I think that this > may be beneficial to YANG’s longevity, and I’m sure that it would make it > easier to maintain and extend the NETCONF/RESTCONF/YANG document set in > future. Agreed. And if we do it without changing YANG (except for absolute musts, if there are any), we can reasonably expect that it can be done relatively quickly. Lada > > Thanks, > Rob > > > From: netmod On Behalf Of Andy Bierman > Sent: 24 July 2019 14:32 > To: Kent Watsen > Cc: netmod@ietf.org > Subject: Re: [netmod] YANG next > > > > On Wed, Jul 24, 2019 at 10:28 AM Kent Watsen wrote: > > > > > > > So you want to work on YANG 1.2, but just the parts you want to > > > > > change? ;-) > > > > > > > > I am actually fine with not doing any changes to YANG 1.1 at all, except > > > > perhaps > > > > bug fixes. This doesn't necessarily mean closing the NETMOD WG, it would > > > > IMO be > > > > immensely useful to rewrite the language specification and remove > > > > NETCONF- and > > > > XML-specific part. > > > > > > +1. There are plenty of ambiguities and NETCONF/XML pollution in the > > > spec. Having the specifications in a DAG would be immensely useful :) > > > > > > Agreed and I should've mentioned before that Martin said in Prague that he'd > > already started this effort, seeing it as a necessary pre-step before making > > other changes. I'm unsure if the intention is to release this by itself as > > an RFC 7950 bis but, if looking for a minimal change, that might be it. The > > next rung up would be to just add clarifications. The next rung up from > > there would be to add only backwards-compatible changes (currently targeted > > by [1]). The last rung being to also target NBC changes (there's no > > consensus to do this). > > > > > This WG sure likes to spend time refactoring documents. > Moving lots of text will create bugs and strong coupling, and only help the > standards purists. > It will be a lot of work for the WG and IESG to review such a massive document > split, > and in the end we have no improvement in YANG, just more RFCs to read. > > Andy > > > [1] https://github.com/netmod-wg/yang-next/projects/2 > > > > Kent > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > netmod mailing list > netmod@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/netmod -- Ladislav Lhotka Head, CZ.NIC Labs PGP Key ID: 0xB8F92B08A9F76C67 From nobody Thu Jul 25 07:41:59 2019 Return-Path: X-Original-To: netmod@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: netmod@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id B669C12006D for ; Thu, 25 Jul 2019 07:41:58 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.898 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.898 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=yumaworks-com.20150623.gappssmtp.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id ePh0spnqszd5 for ; Thu, 25 Jul 2019 07:41:56 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail-lj1-x22f.google.com (mail-lj1-x22f.google.com [IPv6:2a00:1450:4864:20::22f]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id D7311120024 for ; Thu, 25 Jul 2019 07:41:55 -0700 (PDT) Received: by mail-lj1-x22f.google.com with SMTP id v24so48349588ljg.13 for ; Thu, 25 Jul 2019 07:41:55 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=yumaworks-com.20150623.gappssmtp.com; s=20150623; h=mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date:message-id:subject:to :cc; bh=aoNO533Xn3dsBWSqhBe1yxPOuq2Nsk5kKaDorThp0e0=; b=IKXJtWTtXuwbHO1sTnsWMyhaf5J2A+TD/k5KBOUERuZ6ChgzisOqgxXoioNLw1B2up xENOE24D37iJ3DUehSq5VCbJ4DtrUa3IrmQpsBAyLlU6KFRPwE31fgq78KEof6Xs97Ry 0TpXo8VtteliYZdulMfZeOQUALdFSHJZ32UT0/5uupk8AZ0720IP08dSHZ8vMsJ5n9Hj 5w/k/JooSwfpLxv9aSWnqIriehPgS3by4vnTsC5g71ptozj7iD3jOYAA4NUf6Ij5ZQL4 lcsGufxwSS4jmpxbqY1sc6tS/F2tbVKs2DRtpL/JCsnk8+l/xbd8lJaa0W3dMSOYMm4d 5Ogw== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date :message-id:subject:to:cc; bh=aoNO533Xn3dsBWSqhBe1yxPOuq2Nsk5kKaDorThp0e0=; b=R7j8K8NKYGxCkQpg0RnQAgChGeAwBHb3VTEU7R/1D+xL4rfQLluKFi9+bMWVkFSrpO 6drQG9oaPaRRDNcQklh8FwYHwqlWG/+3zgbudyBqgKZssNabiXHwML9EbC/GkI4ToFGa uD9NZ5+xQiRne/N0cTz35m8GC7zQas13WnLO3pzDIbRRWvgVcINnZF55T1N/Y4ygJAlp 6oP1v38j9c6IOQinGk1lFMrGAN3reMFZpzqQvnUQ9G2RYsJVEQRf+HkwCIS4qb5120Vo Xx+lcOfKPtJ+BFHOaDwnedKMXY5yJC/2bgwWG4xT2Wuhm4Rw/tl9+gxPsGcYDavvVc5p PCZw== X-Gm-Message-State: APjAAAUmowdH+g702G9q6tY/eS3bgFpPPs7Z3WKSRied3nS9sx/Cmfi1 icemg6ZvgDHjKI4PudxSRA8KbVpVL9AJ7agPw/nbsw== X-Google-Smtp-Source: APXvYqyMbgSjAxGVrWQ/ueAjB8A5oYONRenyjslwI+ifUgg1abxgvNqwLGoZdolJPx1e26uZXdzdM+SGgE4uk/aggm0= X-Received: by 2002:a2e:b0ea:: with SMTP id h10mr1802537ljl.50.1564065713743; Thu, 25 Jul 2019 07:41:53 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 References: <02c4110737b4ff23f966e6153fad764f04436089.camel@nic.cz> <856cce29-f524-be31-b5e5-bcb679721e9a@hq.sk> <0100016c25074dba-bffd4eea-f851-4913-83da-df3da8774f76-000000@email.amazonses.com> In-Reply-To: From: Andy Bierman Date: Thu, 25 Jul 2019 07:41:42 -0700 Message-ID: To: "Rob Wilton (rwilton)" Cc: Kent Watsen , "netmod@ietf.org" Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="00000000000045ff5d058e826d77" Archived-At: Subject: Re: [netmod] YANG next X-BeenThere: netmod@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: NETMOD WG list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 25 Jul 2019 14:41:59 -0000 --00000000000045ff5d058e826d77 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hi, Was this a big topic at the side meeting? The issues blocking NMDA, schema-mount, and other deployment problems are related to YANG document organization? I doubt it. So how would this work? There will be 2 versions of YANG 1.1? If old YANG 1.1 is equivalent to new YANG 1.1, can a developer safely ignore the new RFCs? If not, then something changed that was not supposed to change. The old YANG 1.1 RFC will be obsolete and the 2 (or more) new YANG 1.1 RFCs will replace it? Then of course all the RFCs that reference RFC 7950 might have to be updated so the subject matter is cited from the correct new YANG 1.1 RFC. IMO this will only serve to confuse the end-users and offer them no real benefit at all. As for finishing quickly because the NETMOD WG is so fast and has nothing better to work on anyway... sure. Andy On Thu, Jul 25, 2019 at 5:56 AM Rob Wilton (rwilton) wrote: > I also think that there is significant value to splitting the NETCONF and > XML specification out of RFC 7950 (but keeping XML examples). I think th= at > this may be beneficial to YANG=E2=80=99s longevity, and I=E2=80=99m sure = that it would make > it easier to maintain and extend the NETCONF/RESTCONF/YANG document set i= n > future. > > > > Thanks, > > Rob > > > > > > *From:* netmod *On Behalf Of *Andy Bierman > *Sent:* 24 July 2019 14:32 > *To:* Kent Watsen > *Cc:* netmod@ietf.org > *Subject:* Re: [netmod] YANG next > > > > > > > > On Wed, Jul 24, 2019 at 10:28 AM Kent Watsen wrote: > > > > So you want to work on YANG 1.2, but just the parts you want to change? ;= -) > > I am actually fine with not doing any changes to YANG 1.1 at all, except > perhaps > bug fixes. This doesn't necessarily mean closing the NETMOD WG, it would > IMO be > immensely useful to rewrite the language specification and remove NETCONF= - > and > XML-specific part. > > > +1. There are plenty of ambiguities and NETCONF/XML pollution in the > spec. Having the specifications in a DAG would be immensely useful :) > > > > Agreed and I should've mentioned before that Martin said in Prague that > he'd already started this effort, seeing it as a necessary pre-step befor= e > making other changes. I'm unsure if the intention is to release this by > itself as an RFC 7950 bis but, if looking for a minimal change, that migh= t > be it. The next rung up would be to just add clarifications. The next > rung up from there would be to add only backwards-compatible changes > (currently targeted by [1]). The last rung being to also target NBC > changes (there's no consensus to do this). > > > > > > This WG sure likes to spend time refactoring documents. > > Moving lots of text will create bugs and strong coupling, and only help > the standards purists. > > It will be a lot of work for the WG and IESG to review such a massive > document split, > > and in the end we have no improvement in YANG, just more RFCs to read. > > > > Andy > > > > [1] https://github.com/netmod-wg/yang-next/projects/2 > > > > > Kent > > > > > > --00000000000045ff5d058e826d77 Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Hi,

Was this a big topic at the side me= eting?
The issues blocking NMDA, schema-mount, and other deployme= nt problems
are related to YANG document organization?=C2=A0 I do= ubt it.

So how would this work?
There wi= ll be 2 versions of YANG 1.1?
If old YANG 1.1 is equivalent to ne= w YANG 1.1, can a developer safely ignore the new RFCs?
If not, t= hen something changed that was not supposed to change.

=
The old YANG 1.1 RFC will be obsolete and the 2 (or more) new YANG 1.1= RFCs will replace it?
Then of course all the RFCs that reference= RFC 7950 might have to be updated so the subject matter
is cited= from the correct new YANG 1.1 RFC.

IMO this will = only serve to confuse the end-users and offer them no real benefit at all.<= /div>
As for finishing quickly because the NETMOD WG is so fast and has= nothing better to work on anyway...=C2=A0 sure.

<= br>
Andy



On Thu, Jul 25, 2019= at 5:56 AM Rob Wilton (rwilton) <r= wilton@cisco.com> wrote:

I also think that there is significant value t= o splitting the NETCONF and XML specification out of RFC 7950 (but keeping = XML examples).=C2=A0 I think that this may be beneficial to YANG=E2=80=99s = longevity, and I=E2=80=99m sure that it would make it easier to maintain and extend the N= ETCONF/RESTCONF/YANG document set in future.

=C2=A0

Thanks,

Rob

=C2=A0

=C2=A0

F= rom: netmod <netmod-bounces@ietf.org> On Behalf Of Andy Bierman
Sent: 24 July 2019 14:32
To: Kent Watsen <kent@watsen.net>
Cc: netmod@ietf= .org
Subject: Re: [netmod] YANG next

=C2=A0

=C2=A0

=C2=A0

On Wed, Jul 24, 2019 at 1= 0:28 AM Kent Watsen <kent@watsen.net> wrote:

=C2=A0

So you want to work on YA= NG 1.2, but just the parts you want to change? ;-)

I am actually fine with n= ot doing any changes to YANG 1.1 at all, except perhaps
bug fixes. This doesn't necessarily mean closing the NETMOD WG, it woul= d IMO be
immensely useful to rewrite the language specification and remove NETCONF- = and
XML-specific part.


+1. There are plenty of ambiguities and NETCONF/XML pollution in the
spec. Having the specifications in a DAG would be immensely useful :)

=C2=A0

Agreed and I should'v= e mentioned before that Martin said in Prague that he'd already started= this effort, seeing it as a necessary pre-step before making other changes= .=C2=A0 I'm unsure if the intention is to release this by itself as an RFC 7950 bis but, if looking for a minimal change, th= at might be it.=C2=A0 The next rung up would be to just add clarifications.= =C2=A0 The next rung up from there would be to add only backwards-compatibl= e changes (currently targeted by [1]).=C2=A0 The last rung being to also target NBC changes (there's no consensus to do= this).

=C2=A0

=C2=A0

This WG sure likes to spe= nd time refactoring documents.

Moving lots of text will = create bugs and strong coupling, and only help the standards purists.

It will be a lot of work = for the WG and IESG to review such a massive document split,<= /p>

and in the end we have no= improvement in YANG, just more RFCs to read.

=C2=A0

Andy

=C2=A0

=C2=A0

Kent=C2=A0<= /p>

=C2=A0

=C2=A0

--00000000000045ff5d058e826d77-- From nobody Thu Jul 25 16:00:07 2019 Return-Path: X-Original-To: netmod@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: netmod@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1C2C01202BB for ; Thu, 25 Jul 2019 16:00:00 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -6.997 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-6.997 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_HI=-5, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_NONE=0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (1024-bit key) header.d=nic.cz Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id C3pdxmTBhRXA for ; Thu, 25 Jul 2019 15:59:57 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail.nic.cz (mail.nic.cz [IPv6:2001:1488:800:400::400]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id BC2EA1201D1 for ; Thu, 25 Jul 2019 15:59:56 -0700 (PDT) Received: from birdie (unknown [IPv6:2001:67c:1232:144:1a4f:a84b:2bfd:c611]) by mail.nic.cz (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 49388140B8F; Fri, 26 Jul 2019 00:59:54 +0200 (CEST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/simple; d=nic.cz; s=default; t=1564095595; bh=UZ3GRbP/UB3dyBT6H6lpAn1przUuopTZUbt1rzSz9F8=; h=From:To:Date; b=ChfNxOaoCOGqqMjnvWKNxbM20jePN6dLshXI0iCsZm2x/m9Jn2GtuwapU/QgCEElH k0QkqoJX1riN1ULJJf4E3rW2PJsBClbMT2a7PdbuvG6Ad6wzsQXkDgGWeAK/d3kYsZ b9q+tPKeg2s5/JB+hHh/LcKAtAK20nscGO46imeM= Message-ID: <3426b6811a802f47bfd49409bb2bdd66d923d6c5.camel@nic.cz> From: Ladislav Lhotka To: Andy Bierman , "Rob Wilton (rwilton)" Cc: Kent Watsen , "netmod@ietf.org" Date: Thu, 25 Jul 2019 18:59:52 -0400 In-Reply-To: References: <02c4110737b4ff23f966e6153fad764f04436089.camel@nic.cz> <856cce29-f524-be31-b5e5-bcb679721e9a@hq.sk> <0100016c25074dba-bffd4eea-f851-4913-83da-df3da8774f76-000000@email.amazonses.com> Organization: CZ.NIC Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" User-Agent: Evolution 3.32.4 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Virus-Scanned: clamav-milter 0.100.3 at mail.nic.cz X-Virus-Status: Clean Archived-At: Subject: Re: [netmod] YANG next X-BeenThere: netmod@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: NETMOD WG list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 25 Jul 2019 23:00:06 -0000 On Thu, 2019-07-25 at 07:41 -0700, Andy Bierman wrote: > Hi, > > Was this a big topic at the side meeting? I think I wrote quite clearly that YANG itself was no topic there - except perhaps complaints regarding the IETF/OpenConfig schism. This fact means to me that the problem is not missing features in YANG but rather missing YANG modules at all different places, and so making a new version of YANG doesn't seem like a good idea to me - we should leave existing module writers in peace and encourage new ones. And a better specification could certainly help with the latter. > The issues blocking NMDA, schema-mount, and other deployment problems > are related to YANG document organization? I doubt it. Well, people at that meeting probably already made their way through the existing specs, although I seriously doubt that they understand all the dark corners. The problems is with newcomers, who may be deterred by the existing complexity and turn to something else - and alternatives do exist. > > So how would this work? > There will be 2 versions of YANG 1.1? > If old YANG 1.1 is equivalent to new YANG 1.1, can a developer safely ignore > the new RFCs? > If not, then something changed that was not supposed to change. The new RFCs may obsolete/update 7950 as necessary. I assume, however, that some limited changes may be necessary, so it may in fact be YANG 1.2 that's described in the new RFCs. I don't think it is a big deal. > > The old YANG 1.1 RFC will be obsolete and the 2 (or more) new YANG 1.1 RFCs > will replace it? > Then of course all the RFCs that reference RFC 7950 might have to be updated > so the subject matter > is cited from the correct new YANG 1.1 RFC. > > IMO this will only serve to confuse the end-users and offer them no real > benefit at all. I have a different opinion. > As for finishing quickly because the NETMOD WG is so fast and has nothing > better to work on anyway... sure. Well, if you compare time spent on YANG 1.1, it was considerably shorter than the time spent of many modules, and not only in NETMOD - routing, acl, ospf, is- is, to name a few. Lada > > > Andy > > > > On Thu, Jul 25, 2019 at 5:56 AM Rob Wilton (rwilton) > wrote: > > I also think that there is significant value to splitting the NETCONF and > > XML specification out of RFC 7950 (but keeping XML examples). I think that > > this may be beneficial to YANG’s longevity, and I’m sure that it would make > > it easier to maintain and extend the NETCONF/RESTCONF/YANG document set in > > future. > > > > > > > > Thanks, > > > > Rob > > > > > > > > > > > > From: netmod On Behalf Of Andy Bierman > > Sent: 24 July 2019 14:32 > > To: Kent Watsen > > Cc: netmod@ietf..org > > Subject: Re: [netmod] YANG next > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > On Wed, Jul 24, 2019 at 10:28 AM Kent Watsen wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > So you want to work on YANG 1.2, but just the parts you want to > > > > > > change? ;-) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I am actually fine with not doing any changes to YANG 1.1 at all, > > > > > except perhaps > > > > > bug fixes. This doesn't necessarily mean closing the NETMOD WG, it > > > > > would IMO be > > > > > immensely useful to rewrite the language specification and remove > > > > > NETCONF- and > > > > > XML-specific part. > > > > > > > > > > > > > +1. There are plenty of ambiguities and NETCONF/XML pollution in the > > > > spec. Having the specifications in a DAG would be immensely useful :) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Agreed and I should've mentioned before that Martin said in Prague that > > > he'd already started this effort, seeing it as a necessary pre-step before > > > making other changes.. I'm unsure if the intention is to release this by > > > itself as an RFC 7950 bis but, if looking for a minimal change, that might > > > be it. The next rung up would be to just add clarifications. The next > > > rung up from there would be to add only backwards-compatible changes > > > (currently targeted by [1]). The last rung being to also target NBC > > > changes (there's no consensus to do this). > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > This WG sure likes to spend time refactoring documents. > > > > Moving lots of text will create bugs and strong coupling, and only help the > > standards purists. > > > > It will be a lot of work for the WG and IESG to review such a massive > > document split, > > > > and in the end we have no improvement in YANG, just more RFCs to read. > > > > > > > > Andy > > > > > > > > > [1] https://github.com/netmod-wg/yang-next/projects/2 > > > > > > > > > > > > Kent > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > netmod mailing list > netmod@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/netmod -- Ladislav Lhotka Head, CZ.NIC Labs PGP Key ID: 0xB8F92B08A9F76C67 From nobody Sat Jul 27 14:55:19 2019 Return-Path: X-Original-To: netmod@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: netmod@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id D200A120158; Sat, 27 Jul 2019 14:55:01 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -6.898 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-6.898 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_HI=-5, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_NONE=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id fz0EHk-S03Jj; Sat, 27 Jul 2019 14:55:00 -0700 (PDT) Received: from nagasaki.bogus.com (nagasaki.bogus.com [IPv6:2001:418:1::81]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id D86BC1201DA; Sat, 27 Jul 2019 14:54:55 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mb-2.local (c-73-202-177-209.hsd1.ca.comcast.net [73.202.177.209]) (authenticated bits=0) by nagasaki.bogus.com (8.15.2/8.15.2) with ESMTPSA id x6RLsqfq001843; Sat, 27 Jul 2019 21:54:54 GMT (envelope-from joelja@bogus.com) X-Authentication-Warning: nagasaki.bogus.com: Host c-73-202-177-209.hsd1.ca.comcast.net [73.202.177.209] claimed to be mb-2.local To: netmod@ietf.org, draft-ietf-netmod-module-tags@ietf.org, ibagdona@gmail.com From: Joel Jaeggli Message-ID: <2dcd4d92-1436-4b9a-050f-ec36053ffa8a@bogus.com> Date: Sat, 27 Jul 2019 14:54:38 -0700 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Macintosh; Intel Mac OS X 10.14; rv:60.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/60.8.0 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="------------E3F2F3FF04588963EB1BD32F" Content-Language: en-US Archived-At: Subject: [netmod] draft-ietf-netmod-module-tags needs a correction X-BeenThere: netmod@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: NETMOD WG list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sat, 27 Jul 2019 21:55:02 -0000 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --------------E3F2F3FF04588963EB1BD32F Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Folks Ignas, draft-ietf-netmod-module-tags, currently in IESG review is in need of a a fairly significant edit, notably the addition of an appendix covering the nmda state. It seems wiser to pull it back and add that rather than proceed forward with the document as is. Thanks joel --------------E3F2F3FF04588963EB1BD32F Content-Type: application/pgp-keys; name="pEpkey.asc" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Disposition: attachment; filename="pEpkey.asc" -----BEGIN PGP PUBLIC KEY BLOCK----- mQENBF0zjHcBCAC/VccTV8/Owi3MQVGop8umVKn4stHzV/F4/5+ixMnzkhhRsI1L 305ew6Uh+ypYkKn28X7B5+3zNIRxK+JKkV9QKufSBPFcTd41xoknMtCMSr5QZIln A61tLz2oCIdB6eiTrzI60pHwd0idCOmAEqUP8JLfaQZK9JNQ416Kb/8CHiDhkG0N 17l0EYT+uVVBlUbSAgbaw6gO2csUPeASB6oiFd9AdCBVMQsQ4Q57Giz1oFam/FJw igtZ4TG+fW8dM1k8ngyonN8RzdTwnkkPLCNrttdOfjrv9llianW9Jz48l52ViT39 S82tYLkDuNbQ0AJKK8lniYz0yvs47k5WHF/VABEBAAG0H0pvZWwgSmFlZ2dsaSA8 am9lbGphQGJvZ3VzLmNvbT6JAVQEEwEIAD4WIQTSCLPd1dloH5f5hauFzc47B3GZ 7AUCXTOMdwIbAwUJAeEzgAULCQgHAgYVCgkICwIEFgIDAQIeAQIXgAAKCRCFzc47 B3GZ7HcvCAChCaaK8xnP5z7bxz5y5tX15fpEzjjhz0fHe32gJ2uZblWzhX6ch/6z 2k51Pcnf0FJj788Nu+WI0kF/U81jByvbz5WPlEBm7E/D0HLxsIWkbt0AlNjiDIP8 WuTZ0Lom/m7YFzwLTN7g+MI5Jqui/LEKcKAqoo5ioGsDGOIa9Fq7/WWkx7fIYvTR pqSpPKdZs3kz1z9QvncyM3IrY7fOMD4hShCwcA2HU+rl61g6aIZmpG7LXT0ZlHfY UMk8zxL/8/S89p7ZPxhxrjDeYMPxlexmWY9KZS6Ek6ugO2udHeEDagpUpUrmqEgg tK8qSsmclqqWXWps5Bl8JLueamnwV+77uQENBF0zjHcBCADWGXodjIueeHPimoj7 55ExPKJvP8ECZProTxJ86N5xmLP9Fbs70FKSxRwv4at1fWgvEwOU9w0ibq7CT+wo neboxFsWh6GEHlskSlgr5MpqCJXSpcoHABR7aBaBecFAD2YS3Zaf7GUCHcl51Bb8 7Xuj59tS8S5RCMtQ5spAL1unLt/rIBbEaiJR24/vJQLuZAJtAeUQgy0s2daBFKfL j/7AIVGTpbFSpM3iiOOjFnvQsWapzxheLNS57OY7DaQWDsd/E8zFHcTJLpotST4r AkWnXvrCxOkFKX+WJ1TKiy8I0enIa1U8aB+9YswHy4fE3GbGqeMDjSxCziNLKKe+ MlZ1ABEBAAGJATwEGAEIACYWIQTSCLPd1dloH5f5hauFzc47B3GZ7AUCXTOMdwIb DAUJAeEzgAAKCRCFzc47B3GZ7G9dB/9mvCNEjuJVv9IdcziUFrWX8r0rZPRTw+iH 1EKxpE5RWU+LTf3dNJWz/s8pItLkevjIz4tLOdoAa8awj4xqoLkoVFr/LTU7ugaF ZksanT5/E5ZsDm/ngsdUAgOwZvalOU6cdj7Utzk1xWbGfPLnx86a8VzEaCMtzNX6 roW3zJPBcxnDekuvuHnEiAvUBDGhf2GcVafVRuyM0MOlT7jQ0B8N6mcmojJFSJvO 4jFLiT2/9vPgl4i41S3P8jbjEBQ24U26BDBuB3yNOvoaPDcRUsC1sKHHZCr1cwan 0E4HFJ5kouvANneQTsH+QtWnGZ9mtDrmR+qZ4p7+4dXve+HsG64S =3DmE9q -----END PGP PUBLIC KEY BLOCK----- --------------E3F2F3FF04588963EB1BD32F-- From nobody Sun Jul 28 04:32:08 2019 Return-Path: X-Original-To: netmod@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: netmod@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 32ADA120139; Sun, 28 Jul 2019 04:32:07 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.897 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.897 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_NONE=0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id axlEhVF266Lk; Sun, 28 Jul 2019 04:32:06 -0700 (PDT) Received: from smtp.chopps.org (smtp.chopps.org [54.88.81.56]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id EF6A51200E7; Sun, 28 Jul 2019 04:32:05 -0700 (PDT) Received: from stubbs.home (172-222-100-236.dhcp.chtrptr.net [172.222.100.236]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher DHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (Client did not present a certificate) by smtp.chopps.org (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 54C83601E7; Sun, 28 Jul 2019 07:32:05 -0400 (EDT) From: Christian Hopps Message-Id: <3D476DEB-B84E-4AA8-A029-148FCD15D17A@chopps.org> Content-Type: multipart/signed; boundary="Apple-Mail=_F7F7B608-AD8F-4E24-9B3A-F18C22817702"; protocol="application/pgp-signature"; micalg=pgp-sha512 Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 12.4 \(3445.104.11\)) Date: Sun, 28 Jul 2019 07:32:03 -0400 In-Reply-To: <2dcd4d92-1436-4b9a-050f-ec36053ffa8a@bogus.com> Cc: Christian Hopps , netmod@ietf.org, draft-ietf-netmod-module-tags@ietf.org, ibagdona@gmail.com To: Joel Jaeggli References: <2dcd4d92-1436-4b9a-050f-ec36053ffa8a@bogus.com> X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.3445.104.11) Archived-At: Subject: Re: [netmod] draft-ietf-netmod-module-tags needs a correction X-BeenThere: netmod@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: NETMOD WG list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sun, 28 Jul 2019 11:32:07 -0000 --Apple-Mail=_F7F7B608-AD8F-4E24-9B3A-F18C22817702 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Or just let it proceed as NMDA only. Thanks, Chris. > On Jul 27, 2019, at 5:54 PM, Joel Jaeggli wrote: > > Folks Ignas, > > draft-ietf-netmod-module-tags, currently in IESG review is in need of a > a fairly significant edit, notably the addition of an appendix covering > the nmda state. It seems wiser to pull it back and add that rather than > proceed forward with the document as is. > > Thanks > > joel > > _______________________________________________ > netmod mailing list > netmod@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/netmod --Apple-Mail=_F7F7B608-AD8F-4E24-9B3A-F18C22817702 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: attachment; filename=signature.asc Content-Type: application/pgp-signature; name=signature.asc Content-Description: Message signed with OpenPGP -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- iQIzBAEBCgAdFiEEm56yH/NF+m1FHa6lLh2DDte4MCUFAl09h7MACgkQLh2DDte4 MCXUBw/8C0fYzptOpkW7SUqf1EY9XFh5qC97dK2dHnMXQ5z6uiEyJq6D3IuVPP5g lCDDRwzLWj3GFxu1LINPST2pD3rW4MUGaiTs//uYAf9xBzaJkPs3QHEFT9h0y1r4 kwOKz1wSsvGzeJUp6xStRhN/S7crLx/0Lv3Yxc1NrZcmipr8FpWAQ2mk+whgXEh9 zFzPIMQ8bBe2LMthjMcQXbfzVe6dwnfZ4HLVeABb0fEQBTvFl/E3kUkZXCf5iuGT OEcgxu5/Jed8mjaaE9YQScI7dduVP0tNOXt//IuYDpYghu9Zv9t99+IcQmqtPDWe 8LC+MF2UE52lLa6JOFQcKVYNszXlvr1G8imxt+lpTF0J3R20ZfH2wy119LZu368z jq8AF6dq72Fg5rA8WtnKonIsRPBfvt3XqjNi4PrwAz9/dBUYosRCdoMTqDmUIffX U6/bGYO00MeyEQkSFw8IQyFkU/CBjuFh8k+3QE+RdK3ziysVu9RACeWZlWO2lgHw K+XodMJT2knlMyKdW3CDkWOSsxGi8Fw/8UZ60RNVOJHhhGj8LUy+/BxgiEa1pYx6 No3crje/onfPT4szlhQpxxpCvKdJ+6nyF6ZHg9r1Dg9qhz0s/Ac10YadBZud+lQn 4R8j1pA00Jk6RqXa03wsq73knCENYHj88YDdn9vRrkwf7yEB01c= =tzCo -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --Apple-Mail=_F7F7B608-AD8F-4E24-9B3A-F18C22817702-- From nobody Mon Jul 29 07:16:40 2019 Return-Path: X-Original-To: netmod@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: netmod@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 32681120100 for ; Mon, 29 Jul 2019 07:16:32 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -6.998 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-6.998 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_HI=-5, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_NONE=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (1024-bit key) header.d=nic.cz Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id edI4NEHly_-d for ; Mon, 29 Jul 2019 07:16:30 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail.nic.cz (mail.nic.cz [IPv6:2001:1488:800:400::400]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id DBB46120124 for ; Mon, 29 Jul 2019 07:16:29 -0700 (PDT) Received: from birdie (unknown [IPv6:2001:1488:fffe:6:a88f:7eff:fed2:45f8]) by mail.nic.cz (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 8F69C140B4F; Mon, 29 Jul 2019 16:16:26 +0200 (CEST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/simple; d=nic.cz; s=default; t=1564409786; bh=Dnl6d+0eg0TGZcc8KgcIhnfjGveoqACPcCVec8EMcBo=; h=From:To:Date; b=B7GIoPsOZ0c0Kkz+HVpSfU6GjzxPNVK4zLodIQxBVh1x3aUwmB8x1i+HhsoFQS8XH qMu4RKf9jvkVIczwMWW/6rDQ7jnMp8orWxYbYrSXICvmIRM9i0L/sd1blphczcEqx4 cNKVbeYKWAWPQTgkC/QQf3kCLkSZZUMLcPF3bUqs= Message-ID: From: Ladislav Lhotka To: RFC Errata System , mbj@tail-f.com, ibagdona@gmail.com, warren@kumari.net, joelja@bogus.com, kent+ietf@watsen.net, lberger@labn.net Cc: andy@yumaworks.com, netmod@ietf.org Date: Mon, 29 Jul 2019 16:16:26 +0200 In-Reply-To: <20190729140310.C6B69B80D94@rfc-editor.org> References: <20190729140310.C6B69B80D94@rfc-editor.org> Organization: CZ.NIC Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" User-Agent: Evolution 3.32.4 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Virus-Scanned: clamav-milter 0.100.3 at mail.nic.cz X-Virus-Status: Clean Archived-At: Subject: Re: [netmod] [Editorial Errata Reported] RFC8528 (5797) X-BeenThere: netmod@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: NETMOD WG list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 29 Jul 2019 14:16:32 -0000 Hi, this erratum should be accepted. Lada (co-author of RFC 8528) On Mon, 2019-07-29 at 07:03 -0700, RFC Errata System wrote: > The following errata report has been submitted for RFC8528, > "YANG Schema Mount". > > -------------------------------------- > You may review the report below and at: > https://www.rfc-editor.org/errata/eid5797 > > -------------------------------------- > Type: Editorial > Reported by: Andy Bierman > > Section: A.2 > > Original Text > ------------- > { > "ietf-interfaces:interfaces": { > "interface": [ > { > "name": "eth0", > "type": "iana-if-type:ethernetCsmacd", > "enabled": true, > "ietf-logical-network-element:bind-lne-name": "eth0" > } > ] > }, > > Corrected Text > -------------- > { > "ietf-interfaces:interfaces": { > "interface": [ > { > "name": "eth0", > "type": "iana-if-type:ethernetCsmacd", > "enabled": true, > "ietf-logical-network-element:bind-lne-name": "lne-1" > } > ] > }, > > Notes > ----- > leafref is for an LNE name, not an interface name > > Instructions: > ------------- > This erratum is currently posted as "Reported". If necessary, please > use "Reply All" to discuss whether it should be verified or > rejected. When a decision is reached, the verifying party > can log in to change the status and edit the report, if necessary. > > -------------------------------------- > RFC8528 (draft-ietf-netmod-schema-mount-12) > -------------------------------------- > Title : YANG Schema Mount > Publication Date : March 2019 > Author(s) : M. Bjorklund, L. Lhotka > Category : PROPOSED STANDARD > Source : Network Modeling > Area : Operations and Management > Stream : IETF > Verifying Party : IESG -- Ladislav Lhotka Head, CZ.NIC Labs PGP Key ID: 0xB8F92B08A9F76C67 From alex@futurewei.com Wed Jul 17 10:38:24 2019 Return-Path: X-Original-To: netmod@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: netmod@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 79766120834 for ; Wed, 17 Jul 2019 10:38:24 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.997 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.997 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, SPF_NONE=0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (1024-bit key) header.d=futurewei.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id I2tzOYJom-qd for ; 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Wed, 17 Jul 2019 17:38:20 +0000 Received: from BYAPR13MB2296.namprd13.prod.outlook.com ([fe80::1:8d09:d7f4:52ce]) by BYAPR13MB2296.namprd13.prod.outlook.com ([fe80::1:8d09:d7f4:52ce%5]) with mapi id 15.20.2094.009; Wed, 17 Jul 2019 17:38:20 +0000 From: Alexander Clemm To: "Carey, Timothy (Nokia - US)" , "netmod@ietf.org" Thread-Topic: Performance considerations for draft-ietf-netmod-nmda-diff Thread-Index: AdU8mwwresgJ1xYdQyq/B5ZPUQgj9gAKkXgQ Date: Wed, 17 Jul 2019 17:38:19 +0000 Message-ID: References: In-Reply-To: Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: authentication-results: spf=none (sender IP is ) smtp.mailfrom=alex@futurewei.com; x-originating-ip: [12.111.81.80] x-ms-publictraffictype: Email x-ms-office365-filtering-correlation-id: ede2374c-2ea7-4329-ba16-08d70add8f0c x-microsoft-antispam: BCL:0; PCL:0; RULEID:(2390118)(7020095)(4652040)(8989299)(4534185)(4627221)(201703031133081)(201702281549075)(8990200)(5600148)(711020)(4605104)(1401327)(2017052603328)(7193020); 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received-spf: None (protection.outlook.com: futurewei.com does not designate permitted sender hosts) x-ms-exchange-senderadcheck: 1 x-microsoft-antispam-message-info: uCmok2NrLWJZEvV7w/coK6VvgLBRsJDsjZa38U0nz+mVB6aFAvMhKEK60R6kT4dD9T9R7Kixkzuw3dhR1bcMnScNBPncw40u0neth+Pr34CrfVDk5yVJl6OUA8KQ48darOCvhM770jPJy3N3/MAwKwS+uc2c+U5XHNrvVhoWOGUB7NMADWV7lDMsVpmrNChrvREN70lDuP8RIMkecCfndz+pM+vfxkKusIqNjfPYrUGZjQ2pHJPpOli21ABGvze1eeQk+xqPrjf8knlNwV7kXww91hpqS8mFEUVk0Uo/CP2avHNIynjBr0XX1Ktor/S8oe4+sJRK2cQjh4knfFf7ez1LTHPUUpCqq9JAsPE/nBsSndfye39C+TXr6Ltj+0BjpCjCDtowh/M0y7ZSC1+JMe0lGXY/De4fcmyDh20WDaE= Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="_000_BYAPR13MB2296278768172EB1AB949BD3DBC90BYAPR13MB2296namp_" MIME-Version: 1.0 X-OriginatorOrg: Futurewei.com X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-Network-Message-Id: ede2374c-2ea7-4329-ba16-08d70add8f0c X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-originalarrivaltime: 17 Jul 2019 17:38:19.8561 (UTC) X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-fromentityheader: Hosted X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-id: 0fee8ff2-a3b2-4018-9c75-3a1d5591fedc X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-mailboxtype: HOSTED X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-userprincipalname: aclemm@futurewei.com X-MS-Exchange-Transport-CrossTenantHeadersStamped: BYAPR13MB2279 Archived-At: X-Mailman-Approved-At: Mon, 29 Jul 2019 09:59:53 -0700 Subject: Re: [netmod] Performance considerations for draft-ietf-netmod-nmda-diff X-BeenThere: netmod@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: NETMOD WG list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 17 Jul 2019 21:02:31 -0000 --_000_BYAPR13MB2296278768172EB1AB949BD3DBC90BYAPR13MB2296namp_ Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hi Tim, this aspect is currently mentioned in the security considerations, specific= ally the last paragraph (https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-netmod-nmda= -diff-02#page-14), mentioning the fact that comparing datastores for differ= ences requires a certain amount of processing resources, which could be lev= eraged by an attacker to consume resources via illegitimate requests, and o= utlining mitigations (ranging from NACM, to limiting the number of requests= per time interval and reserving the option to reject a request). Do you = think this is sufficient? Adding a separate performance considerations se= ction is of course possible but would be somewhat redundant. --- Alex From: netmod On Behalf Of Carey, Timothy (Nokia -= US) Sent: Wednesday, July 17, 2019 5:50 AM To: netmod@ietf.org Subject: [netmod] Performance considerations for draft-ietf-netmod-nmda-dif= f Hi, In reviewing the NMDA differences draft, a comment was made that we need to= be careful resources requirements placed on the target elements in order t= o perform the comparison. In some situations the datastores can be quite large and the compute capabi= lities (CPU, memory) somewhat constrained. Should we add a performance cons= ideration section in this draft with maybe how we would expect a server to = respond if the requirements of the request or the associated response excee= d the "current" capabilities of the target? BR, Tim --_000_BYAPR13MB2296278768172EB1AB949BD3DBC90BYAPR13MB2296namp_ Content-Type: text/html; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

Hi Tim,

 

this aspect is currently mentioned in the security c= onsiderations, specifically the last paragraph (https://tools.ietf.org/= html/draft-ietf-netmod-nmda-diff-02#page-14), mentioning the fact that comparing datastores for differences requires a c= ertain amount of processing resources, which could be leveraged by an attac= ker to consume resources via illegitimate requests, and outlining mitigatio= ns (ranging from NACM, to limiting the number of requests per time interval and reserving the option to rejec= t a request).   Do you think this is sufficient?   Addi= ng a separate performance considerations section is of course possible but = would be somewhat redundant. 

 

--- Alex

 

From: netmod <netmod-bounces@ietf.org> = On Behalf Of Carey, Timothy (Nokia - US)
Sent: Wednesday, July 17, 2019 5:50 AM
To: netmod@ietf.org
Subject: [netmod] Performance considerations for draft-ietf-netmod-n= mda-diff

 

Hi,

 

In reviewing the NMDA differences draft, a comment w= as made that we need to be careful resources requirements placed on the tar= get elements in order to perform the comparison.

In some situations the datastores can be quite large= and the compute capabilities (CPU, memory) somewhat constrained. Should we= add a performance consideration section in this draft with maybe how we wo= uld expect a server to respond if the requirements of the request or the associated response exceed the R= 20;current” capabilities of the target?

 

BR,

Tim

--_000_BYAPR13MB2296278768172EB1AB949BD3DBC90BYAPR13MB2296namp_-- From nobody Mon Jul 29 10:00:01 2019 Return-Path: X-Original-To: netmod@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: netmod@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 659151201D5 for ; Mon, 29 Jul 2019 07:03:28 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -4.201 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-4.201 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-2.3, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id X_BVOP4zWQDf for ; Mon, 29 Jul 2019 07:03:26 -0700 (PDT) Received: from rfc-editor.org (rfc-editor.org [4.31.198.49]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher AECDH-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id A8CD9120182 for ; Mon, 29 Jul 2019 07:03:26 -0700 (PDT) Received: by rfc-editor.org (Postfix, from userid 30) id C6B69B80D94; Mon, 29 Jul 2019 07:03:10 -0700 (PDT) To: mbj@tail-f.com, lhotka@nic.cz, ibagdona@gmail.com, warren@kumari.net, joelja@bogus.com, kent+ietf@watsen.net, lberger@labn.net X-PHP-Originating-Script: 30:errata_mail_lib.php From: RFC Errata System Cc: andy@yumaworks.com, netmod@ietf.org, rfc-editor@rfc-editor.org Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Message-Id: <20190729140310.C6B69B80D94@rfc-editor.org> Date: Mon, 29 Jul 2019 07:03:10 -0700 (PDT) Archived-At: X-Mailman-Approved-At: Mon, 29 Jul 2019 09:59:53 -0700 Subject: [netmod] [Editorial Errata Reported] RFC8528 (5797) X-BeenThere: netmod@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: NETMOD WG list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 29 Jul 2019 14:03:37 -0000 The following errata report has been submitted for RFC8528, "YANG Schema Mount". -------------------------------------- You may review the report below and at: https://www.rfc-editor.org/errata/eid5797 -------------------------------------- Type: Editorial Reported by: Andy Bierman Section: A.2 Original Text ------------- { "ietf-interfaces:interfaces": { "interface": [ { "name": "eth0", "type": "iana-if-type:ethernetCsmacd", "enabled": true, "ietf-logical-network-element:bind-lne-name": "eth0" } ] }, Corrected Text -------------- { "ietf-interfaces:interfaces": { "interface": [ { "name": "eth0", "type": "iana-if-type:ethernetCsmacd", "enabled": true, "ietf-logical-network-element:bind-lne-name": "lne-1" } ] }, Notes ----- leafref is for an LNE name, not an interface name Instructions: ------------- This erratum is currently posted as "Reported". If necessary, please use "Reply All" to discuss whether it should be verified or rejected. When a decision is reached, the verifying party can log in to change the status and edit the report, if necessary. -------------------------------------- RFC8528 (draft-ietf-netmod-schema-mount-12) -------------------------------------- Title : YANG Schema Mount Publication Date : March 2019 Author(s) : M. Bjorklund, L. Lhotka Category : PROPOSED STANDARD Source : Network Modeling Area : Operations and Management Stream : IETF Verifying Party : IESG From nobody Mon Jul 29 14:24:48 2019 Return-Path: X-Original-To: netmod@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: netmod@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 12BBD12006F for ; Mon, 29 Jul 2019 14:24:46 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.901 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.901 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIMWL_WL_HIGH=-0.001, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (1024-bit key) header.d=nokia.onmicrosoft.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 8NdVmuUci-Az for ; Mon, 29 Jul 2019 14:24:43 -0700 (PDT) Received: from EUR02-VE1-obe.outbound.protection.outlook.com (mail-eopbgr20121.outbound.protection.outlook.com [40.107.2.121]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 2CA9D120043 for ; Mon, 29 Jul 2019 14:24:43 -0700 (PDT) ARC-Seal: i=1; a=rsa-sha256; s=arcselector9901; d=microsoft.com; cv=none; b=e6CuE/XBDVZ9+gADkae0GjDHdKTQuAwaws2xVTPZrqPrxt44wB+tRzC7Rsj+OIgh2cXsWt5dN5nz5G8oCyE7IByYcWmIMl8Kg+rpx+pnFvtsVMezQUah/ViAlOgiGV/+NwhhuiOdIbXJHFZF5JgrLaTDlgxPsi4ORYgxEpkeHa2njnAdI24wfJJ2X1XGPQmiAc9YhqrG/EpA/4ln1qG/h77FJPDRbji4HIRCLNQSpMIom6112mVa6NFRzs1yRoYF+udTSy/cSryueYL26BsYpy/NhRJY4jg9Nf+M1x/4fJ4Vg0+Scn6eUtkFCnpdMIZz0+UL0bK28uuB8jyERDzMxA== ARC-Message-Signature: i=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=microsoft.com; s=arcselector9901; h=From:Date:Subject:Message-ID:Content-Type:MIME-Version:X-MS-Exchange-SenderADCheck; bh=lRq7XIcqpC1kMQ3gPw5qwOpWRZ2Vc3Z8Jf7ylfy4kPk=; b=PerjRJcaPV3/K4ANaB6vLslWaYZo1qFUv3iQ7yTpHcpM0dqUc+Tmn3VRI9v94vkQFDGVnLtjiYzOaKXnHcxJ+Z6TqvNZ8jai/QKbx0XLqe3V81GjyAe29ybUQzNdWx6fwkZJcoG0e1OdzhIx6nDZypmbg5XwSz73QlyXd3oWZOFb8aqE1jAoDxb05CnNMRYFgNxAc8ItRRXRBEdxvGxVT91TUTrXvtTCJNDW1z7bNdedQY2+7ZQqtJUEolhVSzInISj3BhVJQcejzARN3mgWUv2EVLG440lzPwXASmMynElYofQsj9VpuSsND6+Wi+moIUXa/d/WBf5FoTfhMmDkoQ== ARC-Authentication-Results: i=1; mx.microsoft.com 1;spf=pass smtp.mailfrom=nokia.com;dmarc=pass action=none header.from=nokia.com;dkim=pass header.d=nokia.com;arc=none DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=nokia.onmicrosoft.com; s=selector1-nokia-onmicrosoft-com; h=From:Date:Subject:Message-ID:Content-Type:MIME-Version:X-MS-Exchange-SenderADCheck; bh=lRq7XIcqpC1kMQ3gPw5qwOpWRZ2Vc3Z8Jf7ylfy4kPk=; b=D8TbFThgc4B+2mAVYaHK15MB2/4j0N4Y5KzAv/sTmFv1NpxMOfGdBKJo89JDYGR+ycWzI0ufGp5i2vB82a3a2N4Zc8nyhLYvRzxxurIC8Oqa9L57Qhjy2hftQ9M6hEqPVylPLSuWXzi0ta5COj3TWQFhe8gpPR1KkQZYgmer1u0= Received: from DB7PR07MB5980.eurprd07.prod.outlook.com (20.178.106.225) by DB7PR07MB4556.eurprd07.prod.outlook.com (52.135.141.14) with Microsoft SMTP Server (version=TLS1_2, cipher=TLS_ECDHE_RSA_WITH_AES_256_GCM_SHA384) id 15.20.2136.11; Mon, 29 Jul 2019 21:24:40 +0000 Received: from DB7PR07MB5980.eurprd07.prod.outlook.com ([fe80::884e:4d4:9076:85ce]) by DB7PR07MB5980.eurprd07.prod.outlook.com ([fe80::884e:4d4:9076:85ce%5]) with mapi id 15.20.2136.010; Mon, 29 Jul 2019 21:24:40 +0000 From: "Carey, Timothy (Nokia - US)" To: "netmod@ietf.org" Thread-Topic: Notifications in schema mount when mounting multiple NEs. 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X-BeenThere: netmod@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: NETMOD WG list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 29 Jul 2019 21:24:46 -0000 --_000_DB7PR07MB5980BFB3B2020730AFB1E92BEFDD0DB7PR07MB5980eurp_ Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hi, In RFC 8528 section 5 there is a discussion on notifications and mount poin= t. After reviewing the RFC, I couldn't find how a notification's reporting ent= ity would be assigned that has a mount point when you have a list of networ= k elements. I also couldn't find any examples in the IETF github site for schema mount. Can anyone provide me an example of what the might look like? I'm not sure = what the reporting entity would look like. Thanks, Tim --_000_DB7PR07MB5980BFB3B2020730AFB1E92BEFDD0DB7PR07MB5980eurp_ Content-Type: text/html; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

Hi,

 

In RFC 8528 section 5 there is a discussion on notif= ications and mount point.

After reviewing the RFC, I couldn’t find how a= notification’s reporting entity would be assigned that has a mount p= oint when you have a list of network elements.

I also couldn’t find any examples in the IETF = github site for schema mount.

 

Can anyone provide me an example of what the might l= ook like? I’m not sure what the reporting entity would look like.

 

Thanks,

Tim

--_000_DB7PR07MB5980BFB3B2020730AFB1E92BEFDD0DB7PR07MB5980eurp_-- From nobody Tue Jul 30 13:43:13 2019 Return-Path: X-Original-To: netmod@ietf.org Delivered-To: netmod@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from ietfa.amsl.com (localhost [IPv6:::1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id EF452120089; Tue, 30 Jul 2019 13:42:53 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: The IESG To: "IETF-Announce" X-Test-IDTracker: no X-IETF-IDTracker: 6.99.1 Auto-Submitted: auto-generated Precedence: bulk Sender: CC: ibagdona@gmail.com, netmod-chairs@ietf.org, draft-ietf-netmod-artwork-folding@ietf.org, netmod@ietf.org, Lou Berger , lberger@labn.net Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Reply-To: ietf@ietf.org Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" MIME-Version: 1.0 Message-ID: <156451937390.14101.5438428659513611953.idtracker@ietfa.amsl.com> Date: Tue, 30 Jul 2019 13:42:53 -0700 Archived-At: Subject: [netmod] Last Call: (Handling Long Lines in Inclusions in Internet-Drafts and RFCs) to Best Current Practice X-BeenThere: netmod@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 List-Id: NETMOD WG list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 30 Jul 2019 20:42:54 -0000 The IESG has received a request from the Network Modeling WG (netmod) to consider the following document: - 'Handling Long Lines in Inclusions in Internet-Drafts and RFCs' as Best Current Practice The IESG plans to make a decision in the next few weeks, and solicits final comments on this action. Please send substantive comments to the ietf@ietf.org mailing lists by 2019-08-13. Exceptionally, comments may be sent to iesg@ietf.org instead. In either case, please retain the beginning of the Subject line to allow automated sorting. Abstract This document defines two strategies for handling long lines in width-bounded text content. One strategy is based on the historic use of a single backslash ('\') character to indicate where line- folding has occurred, with the continuation occurring with the first non-space (' ') character on the next line. The second strategy extends the first strategy by adding a second backslash character to identify where the continuation begins and thereby able to handle cases not supported by the first strategy. Both strategies use a self-describing header enabling automated reconstitution of the original content. The file can be obtained via https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-netmod-artwork-folding/ IESG discussion can be tracked via https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-netmod-artwork-folding/ballot/ No IPR declarations have been submitted directly on this I-D. 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Wed, 31 Jul 2019 13:08:33 +0200 (CEST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/simple; d=nic.cz; s=default; t=1564571313; bh=tRvQHYpRRxFa4QdoOsY3kUQyMBiPPMY2giVsbkTZk2I=; h=From:To:Date; b=akUJhuCKftnoHv4wksdzx6oKdFMCg/R3dzZywiRBGoKs1Ff01SpPesQfbIUBYKX0c zBeoFKC0DYKf1mMOyYiHfgngpXzQh7Rx5Hz4osWnQrg99tr5C1NOsKAofgDCt/Legg YsBbJWdqQ7HEfPOvQOHpiCftIfxtnyBvuGbqwVPE= Message-ID: <92dc3ca86f4850afe600ddc6874046505a1d8d7a.camel@nic.cz> From: Ladislav Lhotka To: netmod@ietf.org Date: Wed, 31 Jul 2019 13:08:33 +0200 In-Reply-To: <06ee01d5478f$0f827140$4001a8c0@gateway.2wire.net> References: <2dcd4d92-1436-4b9a-050f-ec36053ffa8a@bogus.com> <06ee01d5478f$0f827140$4001a8c0@gateway.2wire.net> Organization: CZ.NIC Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" User-Agent: Evolution 3.32.4 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Virus-Scanned: clamav-milter 0.100.3 at mail.nic.cz X-Virus-Status: Clean Archived-At: Subject: Re: [netmod] HTTP: or HTTPS: X-BeenThere: netmod@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: NETMOD WG list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 31 Jul 2019 11:08:37 -0000 On Wed, 2019-07-31 at 11:00 +0000, tom petch wrote: > YANG modules contain several URL - e.g. for the Working Group, Legal > provisions, RFC - for which some authors use http:, some use https: and > some use a mixture. > > Should we be recommending the use of https: in all cases? Yes, given that the http: URLs now return 404. Lada > > Tom Petch > > _______________________________________________ > netmod mailing list > netmod@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/netmod -- Ladislav Lhotka Head, CZ.NIC Labs PGP Key ID: 0xB8F92B08A9F76C67 From nobody Wed Jul 31 04:11:12 2019 Return-Path: X-Original-To: netmod@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: netmod@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 92325120114 for ; Wed, 31 Jul 2019 04:11:10 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -14.501 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-14.501 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_HI=-5, SPF_PASS=-0.001, USER_IN_DEF_DKIM_WL=-7.5] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (1024-bit key) header.d=cisco.com header.b=EZYwWkpC; dkim=pass (1024-bit key) header.d=cisco.onmicrosoft.com header.b=CsEqe3H/ Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id BG3AZDsnqB6U for ; 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Wed, 31 Jul 2019 11:48:27 +0000 From: tom petch To: "Acee Lindem (acee)" , Ladislav Lhotka , "netmod@ietf.org" Thread-Topic: [netmod] HTTP: or HTTPS: Thread-Index: AQHVR48nG7U+Y/lWMESjYl8dHF0wwg== Date: Wed, 31 Jul 2019 11:48:27 +0000 Message-ID: <076b01d54795$c593e1c0$4001a8c0@gateway.2wire.net> References: <2dcd4d92-1436-4b9a-050f-ec36053ffa8a@bogus.com> <06ee01d5478f$0f827140$4001a8c0@gateway.2wire.net> <92dc3ca86f4850afe600ddc6874046505a1d8d7a.camel@nic.cz> Accept-Language: en-GB, en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-clientproxiedby: LO2P265CA0270.GBRP265.PROD.OUTLOOK.COM (2603:10a6:600:a1::18) To AM4PR07MB3204.eurprd07.prod.outlook.com (2603:10a6:205:8::29) authentication-results: spf=none (sender IP is ) smtp.mailfrom=ietfc@btconnect.com; x-ms-exchange-messagesentrepresentingtype: 1 x-mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1106 x-originating-ip: [86.139.211.103] x-ms-publictraffictype: Email x-ms-office365-filtering-correlation-id: b0ef94d1-9e02-4bca-95fe-08d715ad0032 x-microsoft-antispam: BCL:0; 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DIR:OUT; SFP:1102; SCL:1; SRVR:AM4PR07MB3459; H:AM4PR07MB3204.eurprd07.prod.outlook.com; FPR:; SPF:None; LANG:en; PTR:InfoNoRecords; A:0; MX:1; received-spf: None (protection.outlook.com: btconnect.com does not designate permitted sender hosts) x-ms-exchange-senderadcheck: 1 x-microsoft-antispam-message-info: tN/sLJLuY9ULRNDEuCdb9BAkZEvXp8gi7PLmHnvgoYL+U+00yejwWIilvJ0G8BqGVk3nFo8lzs4LM/q0yjqyYatRf0qDoLuTVDXKy3mPDoTd4xAlEcpADr2hHqt1AyqbGe0ynI0npuabgE1xuo9aMNyvMtRLN8XFdBQBWc+7MtuMaPYJgDZ/5wa2xmfg8x3HBPU8Kv8EBzJvXPLcLdFa105HtxtwBUfthqb8hKvse4xJ7h7K3/rFp5/PEUiG4c4cZ5Wi1puaZCSB7PfspC1CfswB/BCwm0gXVFxFvelu/Rqv7lXHPP2d06bUnr1UH7AH6Yqo7PpepfzgmTDalxMsM2FXMgV1CGAZFO9zSvNDTc0OqxnhEV5utayf8bszS9jzsS3JCyVI9KfVjwQ/iR/DxXMwPDGHuCFm0aUVAJqHRxY= Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-ID: Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-OriginatorOrg: btconnect.com X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-Network-Message-Id: b0ef94d1-9e02-4bca-95fe-08d715ad0032 X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-originalarrivaltime: 31 Jul 2019 11:48:27.4804 (UTC) X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-fromentityheader: Hosted X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-id: cf8853ed-96e5-465b-9185-806bfe185e30 X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-mailboxtype: HOSTED X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-userprincipalname: ietfc@btconnect.com X-MS-Exchange-Transport-CrossTenantHeadersStamped: AM4PR07MB3459 Archived-At: Subject: Re: [netmod] HTTP: or HTTPS: X-BeenThere: netmod@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: NETMOD WG list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 31 Jul 2019 11:48:33 -0000 LS0tLS0gT3JpZ2luYWwgTWVzc2FnZSAtLS0tLQ0KRnJvbTogIkFjZWUgTGluZGVtIChhY2VlKSIg PGFjZWVAY2lzY28uY29tPg0KU2VudDogV2VkbmVzZGF5LCBKdWx5IDMxLCAyMDE5IDEyOjExIFBN DQoNCj4g77u/T24gNy8zMS8xOSwgNzowOSBBTSwgIm5ldG1vZCBvbiBiZWhhbGYgb2YgTGFkaXNs YXYgTGhvdGthIg0KPG5ldG1vZC1ib3VuY2VzQGlldGYub3JnIG9uIGJlaGFsZiBvZiBsaG90a2FA bmljLmN6PiB3cm90ZToNCj4NCj4gICAgIE9uIFdlZCwgMjAxOS0wNy0zMSBhdCAxMTowMCArMDAw MCwgdG9tIHBldGNoIHdyb3RlOg0KPiAgICAgPiBZQU5HIG1vZHVsZXMgY29udGFpbiBzZXZlcmFs IFVSTCAtIGUuZy4gZm9yIHRoZSBXb3JraW5nIEdyb3VwLA0KTGVnYWwNCj4gICAgID4gcHJvdmlz aW9ucywgUkZDIC0gZm9yIHdoaWNoIHNvbWUgYXV0aG9ycyB1c2UgaHR0cDosIHNvbWUgdXNlDQpo dHRwczogYW5kDQo+ICAgICA+IHNvbWUgdXNlIGEgbWl4dHVyZS4NCj4gICAgID4NCj4gICAgID4g U2hvdWxkIHdlIGJlIHJlY29tbWVuZGluZyB0aGUgdXNlIG9mIGh0dHBzOiBpbiBhbGwgY2FzZXM/ DQo+DQo+ICAgICBZZXMsIGdpdmVuIHRoYXQgdGhlIGh0dHA6IFVSTHMgbm93IHJldHVybiA0MDQu DQoNCkkgZmluZCB0aGF0IG15IGh0dHA6IHVzdWFsbHkgZ2V0IHNpbGVudGx5IGNvbnZlcnRlZCB0 byBodHRwczogcmF0aGVyDQp0aGFuDQpnaXZpbmcgbWUgYSA0MDQgYnV0IEkgYWdyZWUgdGhhdCB1 c2luZyBodHRwczogbmF0aXZlIGlzIGJldHRlci4gIEluDQpwYXNzaW5nLCB0aGUgcmVjZW50bHkg SUVTRy1hcHByb3ZlZA0KZHJhZnQtaWV0Zi10ZWFzLXlhbmctdGUtdG9wbw0KaGFzIGh0dHA6IGFz IGRvZXMgKHBybyBwYXJ0ZSkNCmRyYWZ0LWlldGYtb3NwZi15YW5nDQoNCkludGVyZXN0aW5nbHks IFJGQzg0MDcgQXBwZW5kaXggQSBnZXRzIGl0IHJpZ2h0IHdoaWxlIEFwcGVuZGl4IEIgZ2V0cyBp dA0Kd3JvbmcuDQoNClRvbSBQZXRjaA0KDQoNCj4gQWdyZWVkLiBQZXJoYXBzLCB0aGVyZSBzaG91 bGQgYmUgYW4gZXJyYXRhIG9uIHRoZSBSRkMgODQwNyB0ZW1wbGF0ZS4NCj4NCj4gaHR0cHM6Ly90 b29scy5pZXRmLm9yZy9odG1sL3JmYzg0MDcjYXBwZW5kaXgtQg0KPg0KPiBUaGFua3MsDQo+IEFj ZWUNCj4NCj4gICAgIExhZGENCj4NCj4gICAgID4NCj4gICAgID4gVG9tIFBldGNoDQo+ICAgICA+ DQo+ICAgICA+IF9fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19f DQo+ICAgICA+IG5ldG1vZCBtYWlsaW5nIGxpc3QNCj4gICAgID4gbmV0bW9kQGlldGYub3JnDQo+ ICAgICA+IGh0dHBzOi8vd3d3LmlldGYub3JnL21haWxtYW4vbGlzdGluZm8vbmV0bW9kDQo+ICAg ICAtLQ0KPiAgICAgTGFkaXNsYXYgTGhvdGthDQo+ICAgICBIZWFkLCBDWi5OSUMgTGFicw0KPiAg ICAgUEdQIEtleSBJRDogMHhCOEY5MkIwOEE5Rjc2QzY3DQo+DQo+ICAgICBfX19fX19fX19fX19f X19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fXw0KPiAgICAgbmV0bW9kIG1haWxpbmcg bGlzdA0KPiAgICAgbmV0bW9kQGlldGYub3JnDQo+ICAgICBodHRwczovL3d3dy5pZXRmLm9yZy9t YWlsbWFuL2xpc3RpbmZvL25ldG1vZA0KPg0KPg0KPiBfX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19f X19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fXw0KPiBuZXRtb2QgbWFpbGluZyBsaXN0DQo+IG5ldG1vZEBp ZXRmLm9yZw0KPiBodHRwczovL3d3dy5pZXRmLm9yZy9tYWlsbWFuL2xpc3RpbmZvL25ldG1vZA0K Pg0KDQo= From nobody Wed Jul 31 05:08:02 2019 Return-Path: X-Original-To: netmod@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: netmod@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 07ADA120153 for ; Wed, 31 Jul 2019 05:08:01 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -6.998 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-6.998 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_HI=-5, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_NONE=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (1024-bit key) header.d=nic.cz Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id YPxNCuVXQoyS for ; Wed, 31 Jul 2019 05:07:58 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail.nic.cz (mail.nic.cz [217.31.204.67]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id BE1CF1200F6 for ; Wed, 31 Jul 2019 05:07:58 -0700 (PDT) Received: from birdie (unknown [IPv6:2001:1488:fffe:6:a88f:7eff:fed2:45f8]) by mail.nic.cz (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 7787F13FD6D; Wed, 31 Jul 2019 14:07:56 +0200 (CEST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/simple; d=nic.cz; s=default; t=1564574876; bh=/+5U8YX5G82RvFsyirsvtbP3o2hhw9Vt17Hqy+mU+5Q=; h=From:To:Date; b=P1bhZa5HPWFNZBa5xqLi2QGVmq1fEZaCtPHv6/kInAgdXT7oamIbwVp6S5tWxPn4K jLjhNYiVrnWfLEiPmnP8UiA2pOslOBabF1wlzvW1ckwwwJMGmbb98U6GL3Bbfg+ZrH 4ALeyWjFnxcAzaie23A1g2HH9iKAN817GV56pzYA= Message-ID: From: Ladislav Lhotka To: tom petch , "Acee Lindem (acee)" , "netmod@ietf.org" Date: Wed, 31 Jul 2019 14:07:56 +0200 In-Reply-To: <076b01d54795$c593e1c0$4001a8c0@gateway.2wire.net> References: <2dcd4d92-1436-4b9a-050f-ec36053ffa8a@bogus.com> <06ee01d5478f$0f827140$4001a8c0@gateway.2wire.net> <92dc3ca86f4850afe600ddc6874046505a1d8d7a.camel@nic.cz> <076b01d54795$c593e1c0$4001a8c0@gateway.2wire.net> Organization: CZ.NIC Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" User-Agent: Evolution 3.32.4 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Virus-Scanned: clamav-milter 0.100.3 at mail.nic.cz X-Virus-Status: Clean Archived-At: Subject: Re: [netmod] HTTP: or HTTPS: X-BeenThere: netmod@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: NETMOD WG list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 31 Jul 2019 12:08:01 -0000 On Wed, 2019-07-31 at 11:48 +0000, tom petch wrote: > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Acee Lindem (acee)" > Sent: Wednesday, July 31, 2019 12:11 PM > > > On 7/31/19, 7:09 AM, "netmod on behalf of Ladislav Lhotka" > wrote: > > On Wed, 2019-07-31 at 11:00 +0000, tom petch wrote: > > > YANG modules contain several URL - e.g. for the Working Group, > Legal > > > provisions, RFC - for which some authors use http:, some use > https: and > > > some use a mixture. > > > > > > Should we be recommending the use of https: in all cases? > > > > Yes, given that the http: URLs now return 404. > > I find that my http: usually get silently converted to https: rather Oh yes, sorry, my fault, I blindly used the URL from Appendix B that of course doesn't work either way :-) http://datatracker.ietf.org/wg/your-wg-name/ Lada > than > giving me a 404 but I agree that using https: native is better. In > passing, the recently IESG-approved > draft-ietf-teas-yang-te-topo > has http: as does (pro parte) > draft-ietf-ospf-yang > > Interestingly, RFC8407 Appendix A gets it right while Appendix B gets it > wrong. > > Tom Petch > > > > Agreed. Perhaps, there should be an errata on the RFC 8407 template. > > > > https://tools.ietf.org/html/rfc8407#appendix-B > > > > Thanks, > > Acee > > > > Lada > > > > > > > > Tom Petch > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > > netmod mailing list > > > netmod@ietf.org > > > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/netmod > > -- > > Ladislav Lhotka > > Head, CZ.NIC Labs > > PGP Key ID: 0xB8F92B08A9F76C67 > > > > _______________________________________________ > > netmod mailing list > > netmod@ietf.org > > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/netmod > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > netmod mailing list > > netmod@ietf.org > > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/netmod > > -- Ladislav Lhotka Head, CZ.NIC Labs PGP Key ID: 0xB8F92B08A9F76C67 From nobody Wed Jul 31 07:37:03 2019 Return-Path: X-Original-To: netmod@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: netmod@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 28D721200D7 for ; Wed, 31 Jul 2019 07:37:02 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -4.201 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-4.201 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-2.3, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id JuXozRqd1-jF for ; Wed, 31 Jul 2019 07:37:00 -0700 (PDT) Received: from rfc-editor.org (rfc-editor.org [4.31.198.49]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher AECDH-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 85942120077 for ; Wed, 31 Jul 2019 07:37:00 -0700 (PDT) Received: by rfc-editor.org (Postfix, from userid 30) id 93F8CB8159B; Wed, 31 Jul 2019 07:36:42 -0700 (PDT) To: andy@yumaworks.com, ibagdona@gmail.com, warren@kumari.net, joelja@bogus.com, kent+ietf@watsen.net, lberger@labn.net X-PHP-Originating-Script: 30:errata_mail_lib.php From: RFC Errata System Cc: daedulus@btconnect.com, netmod@ietf.org, rfc-editor@rfc-editor.org Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Message-Id: <20190731143642.93F8CB8159B@rfc-editor.org> Date: Wed, 31 Jul 2019 07:36:42 -0700 (PDT) Archived-At: Subject: [netmod] [Editorial Errata Reported] RFC8407 (5800) X-BeenThere: netmod@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: NETMOD WG list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 31 Jul 2019 14:37:02 -0000 The following errata report has been submitted for RFC8407, "Guidelines for Authors and Reviewers of Documents Containing YANG Data Models". -------------------------------------- You may review the report below and at: https://www.rfc-editor.org/errata/eid5800 -------------------------------------- Type: Editorial Reported by: tom Petch Section: appendix b Original Text ------------- "WG Web: ..... (http://trustee.ietf.org/license-info). Corrected Text -------------- "WG Web: ..... (https://trustee.ietf.org/license-info). Notes ----- Appendix A rightly says that these URL should have a scheme of https: but Appendix B wrongly specifies http: Instructions: ------------- This erratum is currently posted as "Reported". If necessary, please use "Reply All" to discuss whether it should be verified or rejected. When a decision is reached, the verifying party can log in to change the status and edit the report, if necessary. -------------------------------------- RFC8407 (draft-ietf-netmod-rfc6087bis-20) -------------------------------------- Title : Guidelines for Authors and Reviewers of Documents Containing YANG Data Models Publication Date : October 2018 Author(s) : A. Bierman Category : BEST CURRENT PRACTICE Source : Network Modeling Area : Operations and Management Stream : IETF Verifying Party : IESG From nobody Wed Jul 31 08:55:01 2019 Return-Path: <0100016c48bdd421-702f0715-fae8-47c8-aa69-28c7dc6af3d0-000000@amazonses.watsen.net> X-Original-To: netmod@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: netmod@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 38E3012039D for ; Wed, 31 Jul 2019 08:54:59 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.897 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.897 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_NONE=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (1024-bit key) header.d=amazonses.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 4T1IQW6uKKSP for ; Wed, 31 Jul 2019 08:54:57 -0700 (PDT) Received: from a8-33.smtp-out.amazonses.com (a8-33.smtp-out.amazonses.com [54.240.8.33]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 4985412039C for ; Wed, 31 Jul 2019 08:54:57 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; q=dns/txt; c=relaxed/simple; s=6gbrjpgwjskckoa6a5zn6fwqkn67xbtw; d=amazonses.com; t=1564588496; h=From:Message-Id:Content-Type:Mime-Version:Subject:Date:In-Reply-To:Cc:To:References:Feedback-ID; bh=WBxRBtRkXsuWfqYBVKPUz8ABrO71FZXav0zL+aZg15g=; b=OGK+Ld6EYgVl/HpjvDiEQxURzT/gZyHl/4k/MuU6HMP8rRbkVqGbAs4TvDIANQ9G 3diHzNr15QLrNnlbZdUNR3m7Mkdo+L9BjVIkDfPJL84gtSV8i/2+rFz2LuvkKJW6SEv wIF5vzQPapDwYqpxxD7hjf8JLKG5pCRPxkSv3bUg= From: Kent Watsen Message-ID: <0100016c48bdd421-702f0715-fae8-47c8-aa69-28c7dc6af3d0-000000@email.amazonses.com> Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="Apple-Mail=_A2A2865B-F77E-4DC5-9FC3-2A51111B909B" Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 12.4 \(3445.104.11\)) Date: Wed, 31 Jul 2019 15:54:56 +0000 In-Reply-To: <20190731143642.93F8CB8159B@rfc-editor.org> Cc: Andy Bierman , Ignas Bagdonas , Warren Kumari , Joel Jaeggli , Lou Berger , tom petch , "netmod@ietf.org" To: RFC Errata System References: <20190731143642.93F8CB8159B@rfc-editor.org> X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.3445.104.11) X-SES-Outgoing: 2019.07.31-54.240.8.33 Feedback-ID: 1.us-east-1.DKmIRZFhhsBhtmFMNikgwZUWVrODEw9qVcPhqJEI2DA=:AmazonSES Archived-At: Subject: Re: [netmod] [Editorial Errata Reported] RFC8407 (5800) X-BeenThere: netmod@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: NETMOD WG list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 31 Jul 2019 15:54:59 -0000 --Apple-Mail=_A2A2865B-F77E-4DC5-9FC3-2A51111B909B Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii This errata should be accepted. Kent > On Jul 31, 2019, at 10:36 AM, RFC Errata System = wrote: >=20 > The following errata report has been submitted for RFC8407, > "Guidelines for Authors and Reviewers of Documents Containing YANG = Data Models". >=20 > -------------------------------------- > You may review the report below and at: > https://www.rfc-editor.org/errata/eid5800 >=20 > -------------------------------------- > Type: Editorial > Reported by: tom Petch >=20 > Section: appendix b >=20 > Original Text > ------------- > "WG Web: > ..... > (http://trustee.ietf.org/license-info). >=20 >=20 > Corrected Text > -------------- > "WG Web: > ..... > (https://trustee.ietf.org/license-info). >=20 >=20 > Notes > ----- > Appendix A rightly says that these URL should have a scheme of https: > but Appendix B wrongly specifies http: >=20 > Instructions: > ------------- > This erratum is currently posted as "Reported". If necessary, please > use "Reply All" to discuss whether it should be verified or > rejected. When a decision is reached, the verifying party =20 > can log in to change the status and edit the report, if necessary.=20 >=20 > -------------------------------------- > RFC8407 (draft-ietf-netmod-rfc6087bis-20) > -------------------------------------- > Title : Guidelines for Authors and Reviewers of = Documents Containing YANG Data Models > Publication Date : October 2018 > Author(s) : A. Bierman > Category : BEST CURRENT PRACTICE > Source : Network Modeling > Area : Operations and Management > Stream : IETF > Verifying Party : IESG --Apple-Mail=_A2A2865B-F77E-4DC5-9FC3-2A51111B909B Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/html; charset=us-ascii This = errata should be accepted.

Kent


On Jul = 31, 2019, at 10:36 AM, RFC Errata System <rfc-editor@rfc-editor.org> wrote:

The = following errata report has been submitted for RFC8407,
"Guidelines for Authors and Reviewers of Documents Containing = YANG Data Models".

--------------------------------------
You may = review the report below and at:
https://www.rfc-editor.org/errata/eid5800
--------------------------------------
Type: = Editorial
Reported by: tom Petch = <daedulus@btconnect.com>

Section: = appendix b

Original Text
-------------
=       "WG Web: =   <http://datatracker.ietf.org/wg/your-wg-name/>
.....
=        (http://trustee.ietf.org/license= -info).


Corrected Text
--------------
=       "WG Web: =   <https://datatracker.ietf.org/wg/your-wg-name/>
.....
=        (https://trustee.ietf.org/licens= e-info).


Notes
-----
Appendix A rightly says that these URL = should have a scheme of https:
but Appendix B wrongly = specifies http:

Instructions:
-------------
This erratum is currently posted = as "Reported". If necessary, please
use "Reply All" to = discuss whether it should be verified or
rejected. When a = decision is reached, the verifying party  
can log in = to change the status and edit the report, if necessary.
--------------------------------------
RFC8407 = (draft-ietf-netmod-rfc6087bis-20)
--------------------------------------
Title =             &n= bsp; : Guidelines for Authors and Reviewers of Documents Containing = YANG Data Models
Publication Date    : = October 2018
Author(s) =           : A. = Bierman
Category =            : BEST = CURRENT PRACTICE
Source =             &n= bsp;: Network Modeling
Area =             &n= bsp;  : Operations and Management
Stream =             &n= bsp;: IETF
Verifying Party     : = IESG

= --Apple-Mail=_A2A2865B-F77E-4DC5-9FC3-2A51111B909B-- From nobody Wed Jul 31 08:56:17 2019 Return-Path: X-Original-To: netmod@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: netmod@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id B5DAB1203B9; Wed, 31 Jul 2019 08:55:58 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -4.2 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-4.2 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-2.3, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id GSXpBKx5JvZf; Wed, 31 Jul 2019 08:55:56 -0700 (PDT) Received: from outgoing-alum.mit.edu (outgoing-alum.mit.edu [18.7.68.33]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 8B7691203A1; Wed, 31 Jul 2019 08:55:53 -0700 (PDT) Received: from PaulKyzivatsMBP.localdomain (c-24-62-227-142.hsd1.ma.comcast.net [24.62.227.142]) (authenticated bits=0) (User authenticated as pkyzivat@ALUM.MIT.EDU) by outgoing-alum.mit.edu (8.14.7/8.12.4) with ESMTP id x6VFtoAQ022531 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=AES128-SHA bits=128 verify=NOT); Wed, 31 Jul 2019 11:55:51 -0400 To: ietf@ietf.org Cc: ibagdona@gmail.com, netmod-chairs@ietf.org, draft-ietf-netmod-artwork-folding@ietf.org, netmod@ietf.org References: <156451937390.14101.5438428659513611953.idtracker@ietfa.amsl.com> From: Paul Kyzivat Message-ID: <1e399e65-4cc9-1e46-018f-5d6427e953c9@alum.mit.edu> Date: Wed, 31 Jul 2019 11:55:49 -0400 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Macintosh; Intel Mac OS X 10.10; rv:60.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/60.7.2 MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: <156451937390.14101.5438428659513611953.idtracker@ietfa.amsl.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8; format=flowed Content-Language: en-US Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Archived-At: Subject: Re: [netmod] Last Call: (Handling Long Lines in Inclusions in Internet-Drafts and RFCs) to Best Current Practice X-BeenThere: netmod@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: NETMOD WG list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 31 Jul 2019 15:56:06 -0000 Note: I just noticed this work for the first time, and I don't follow netmod. But I find the subject interesting and relevant, so I took a look at it. I have a couple of comments/concerns: 1) Section 6.2 recommends only using double backslash folding if single backslash folding doesn't work. But all the examples in section 9 violate this. 2) Regarding forced folding in section 8.2.1: step 1 (Determine where the fold will occur) could benefit from some elaboration regarding lines that require forced folding. In particular, when an input line flagged for forced folding ends in backslash, then it must indeed be folded before the last character, while in all other cases it can be folded at any position prior to the max line length. (While this is obvious if you think about it, some might miss this.) Also, there should be examples of forced folding. Thanks, Paul On 7/30/19 4:42 PM, The IESG wrote: > > The IESG has received a request from the Network Modeling WG (netmod) to > consider the following document: - 'Handling Long Lines in Inclusions in > Internet-Drafts and RFCs' > as Best Current Practice > > The IESG plans to make a decision in the next few weeks, and solicits final > comments on this action. Please send substantive comments to the > ietf@ietf.org mailing lists by 2019-08-13. Exceptionally, comments may be > sent to iesg@ietf.org instead. In either case, please retain the beginning of > the Subject line to allow automated sorting. > > Abstract > > > This document defines two strategies for handling long lines in > width-bounded text content. One strategy is based on the historic > use of a single backslash ('\') character to indicate where line- > folding has occurred, with the continuation occurring with the first > non-space (' ') character on the next line. The second strategy > extends the first strategy by adding a second backslash character to > identify where the continuation begins and thereby able to handle > cases not supported by the first strategy. Both strategies use a > self-describing header enabling automated reconstitution of the > original content. > > > > > The file can be obtained via > https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-netmod-artwork-folding/ > > IESG discussion can be tracked via > https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-netmod-artwork-folding/ballot/ > > > No IPR declarations have been submitted directly on this I-D. > > > > > _______________________________________________ > IETF-Announce mailing list > IETF-Announce@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ietf-announce > From nobody Wed Jul 31 12:41:39 2019 Return-Path: <0100016c498d2a40-f6b9bf13-15c9-4d20-9be2-bea7147d60e5-000000@amazonses.watsen.net> X-Original-To: netmod@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: netmod@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 549461200E5; Wed, 31 Jul 2019 12:41:27 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.897 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.897 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_NONE=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (1024-bit key) header.d=amazonses.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id DP9OZw5tBXwe; Wed, 31 Jul 2019 12:41:25 -0700 (PDT) Received: from a8-64.smtp-out.amazonses.com (a8-64.smtp-out.amazonses.com [54.240.8.64]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 3F853120018; Wed, 31 Jul 2019 12:41:25 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; q=dns/txt; c=relaxed/simple; s=6gbrjpgwjskckoa6a5zn6fwqkn67xbtw; d=amazonses.com; t=1564602084; h=From:Message-Id:Content-Type:Mime-Version:Subject:Date:In-Reply-To:Cc:To:References:Feedback-ID; bh=7ftrCj6MlC3Gf7eW1XkIbfgoFwGR89/zGxQihmNWrAo=; b=lthOuMKIIGFCfvUDkdXyjhFt0BYZfP/+QC2IQ6JrgXAhkwA1OHkCm5t5VislQ+ng bgEMOBVGK2TLUw9bPvJev9HOZNLm47zZ1xYHbXTR1VFd93SOg820UdIEkJA0dAc5FZ/ 1kjJzzFiuwr1ZMEGJZZ0jNKAOYa51gPRCWOUEtmk= From: Kent Watsen Message-ID: <0100016c498d2a40-f6b9bf13-15c9-4d20-9be2-bea7147d60e5-000000@email.amazonses.com> Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="Apple-Mail=_EC3B07A6-794B-4565-86E3-5C88A8F42FB9" Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 12.4 \(3445.104.11\)) Date: Wed, 31 Jul 2019 19:41:24 +0000 In-Reply-To: <1e399e65-4cc9-1e46-018f-5d6427e953c9@alum.mit.edu> Cc: IETF discussion list , Ignas Bagdonas , "netmod-chairs@ietf.org" , draft-ietf-netmod-artwork-folding@ietf.org, "netmod@ietf.org" To: Paul Kyzivat References: <156451937390.14101.5438428659513611953.idtracker@ietfa.amsl.com> <1e399e65-4cc9-1e46-018f-5d6427e953c9@alum.mit.edu> X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.3445.104.11) X-SES-Outgoing: 2019.07.31-54.240.8.64 Feedback-ID: 1.us-east-1.DKmIRZFhhsBhtmFMNikgwZUWVrODEw9qVcPhqJEI2DA=:AmazonSES Archived-At: Subject: Re: [netmod] Last Call: (Handling Long Lines in Inclusions in Internet-Drafts and RFCs) to Best Current Practice X-BeenThere: netmod@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: NETMOD WG list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 31 Jul 2019 19:41:28 -0000 --Apple-Mail=_EC3B07A6-794B-4565-86E3-5C88A8F42FB9 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Hi Paul, Thanks for your comments! > 1) Section 6.2 recommends only using double backslash folding if = single backslash folding doesn't work. But all the examples in section 9 = violate this. True, but these example illustrate the algorithm itself, and so seem = okay, or is your suggestion to add text stating this? FWIW, the `rfcfold` script in the appendix of the draft was used on all = the examples in Section 9. By default, the `rfcfold` script follows the = recommendation (i.e., single before double), but also accepts a = command-line option to specify the folding strategy to use. For the = examples in section 9, this command-line option was used. > 2) Regarding forced folding in section 8.2.1: step 1 (Determine where = the fold will occur) could benefit from some elaboration regarding lines = that require forced folding. In particular, when an input line flagged = for forced folding ends in backslash, then it must indeed be folded = before the last character, while in all other cases it can be folded at = any position prior to the max line length. (While this is obvious if you = think about it, some might miss this.) Your comment goes to step 1, are you suggesting a modification such as = the following? OLD 1. Determine where the fold will occur. This location MUST be before = or at the desired maximum column. NEW 1. Determine where the fold will occur. This location MUST be before = or at the desired maximum column. In the case of a forced folding, the = location MUST be before or at the end of the line. > Also, there should be examples of forced folding. Agreed. Kent // co-author --Apple-Mail=_EC3B07A6-794B-4565-86E3-5C88A8F42FB9 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/html; charset=us-ascii Hi = Paul,

Thanks for = your comments!


1) = Section 6.2 recommends only using double backslash folding if single = backslash folding doesn't work. But all the examples in section 9 = violate this.

True, but = these example illustrate the algorithm itself, and so seem okay, or is = your suggestion to add text stating this?

FWIW, the `rfcfold` script in the appendix of the = draft was used on all the examples in Section 9.  By default, the = `rfcfold` script follows the recommendation (i.e., single before = double), but also accepts a command-line option to specify the folding = strategy to use.  For the examples in section 9, = this command-line option  was used.


2) Regarding forced folding in section 8.2.1: = step 1 (Determine where the fold will occur) could benefit from some = elaboration regarding lines that require forced folding. In particular, = when an input line flagged for forced folding ends in backslash, then it = must indeed be folded before the last character, while in all other = cases it can be folded at any position prior to the max line length. = (While this is obvious if you think about it, some might miss this.)

Your = comment goes to step 1, are you suggesting a modification such as the = following?

OLD
    1. Determine = where the fold will occur. This location MUST be before or at the = desired maximum column.

NEW
    = 1. Determine where the fold will occur. This location MUST be = before or at the desired maximum column.  In the case of a = forced folding, the location MUST be before or at the end of the = line.



Also, there should be examples of forced folding.

Agreed.


Kent // co-author



= --Apple-Mail=_EC3B07A6-794B-4565-86E3-5C88A8F42FB9--