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Wed, 1 Apr 2020 10:20:11 +0000 From: "Rob Wilton (rwilton)" To: NetMod WG Thread-Topic: YANG definition of MAC address Thread-Index: AdYIDhp8gPhYGk53RUafwJ2D/bEblg== Date: Wed, 1 Apr 2020 10:20:10 +0000 Message-ID: Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: authentication-results: spf=none (sender IP is ) smtp.mailfrom=rwilton@cisco.com; x-originating-ip: [82.15.79.32] x-ms-publictraffictype: Email x-ms-office365-filtering-correlation-id: c1cf489e-2f27-49bc-f24a-08d7d626429b x-ms-traffictypediagnostic: MN2PR11MB4742: x-microsoft-antispam-prvs: x-ms-oob-tlc-oobclassifiers: OLM:8882; x-forefront-prvs: 03607C04F0 x-forefront-antispam-report: CIP:255.255.255.255; CTRY:; LANG:en; SCL:1; SRV:; IPV:NLI; SFV:NSPM; H:MN2PR11MB4366.namprd11.prod.outlook.com; PTR:; CAT:NONE; SFTY:; SFS:(10009020)(4636009)(39860400002)(396003)(376002)(366004)(136003)(346002)(66446008)(81156014)(81166006)(66476007)(66946007)(66556008)(5660300002)(966005)(52536014)(186003)(7696005)(26005)(76116006)(64756008)(8936002)(4326008)(6506007)(8676002)(71200400001)(9686003)(33656002)(2906002)(316002)(6916009)(86362001)(55016002)(478600001); 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boundary="_000_MN2PR11MB4366ABF427070927849E4A03B5C90MN2PR11MB4366namp_" MIME-Version: 1.0 X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-Network-Message-Id: c1cf489e-2f27-49bc-f24a-08d7d626429b X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-originalarrivaltime: 01 Apr 2020 10:20:10.4705 (UTC) X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-fromentityheader: Hosted X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-id: 5ae1af62-9505-4097-a69a-c1553ef7840e X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-mailboxtype: HOSTED X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-userprincipalname: RRNKWNmwI6m8QYVaXC3eTAca+KjY5Lz734DC30sP91pTtTI0p0kRPO5hFKRznQ6SFIGkD2r2lGzj9H89SGBNiQ== X-MS-Exchange-Transport-CrossTenantHeadersStamped: MN2PR11MB4742 X-OriginatorOrg: cisco.com X-Outbound-SMTP-Client: 173.36.7.12, xch-aln-002.cisco.com X-Outbound-Node: rcdn-core-4.cisco.com Archived-At: Subject: [netmod] YANG definition of MAC address X-BeenThere: netmod@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: NETMOD WG list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 01 Apr 2020 10:20:17 -0000 --_000_MN2PR11MB4366ABF427070927849E4A03B5C90MN2PR11MB4366namp_ Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable RFC 6991 defines MAC address using colons: typedef mac-address { type string { pattern '[0-9a-fA-F]{2}(:[0-9a-fA-F]{2}){5}'; } description "The mac-address type represents an IEEE 802 MAC address. The canonical representation uses lowercase characters. In the value set and its semantics, this type is equivalent to the MacAddress textual convention of the SMIv2."; reference "IEEE 802: IEEE Standard for Local and Metropolitan Area Networks: Overview and Architecture RFC 2579: Textual Conventions= for SMIv2"; } IEEE has their own definition using dashes instead of colons, i.e. the patt= ern is "[0-9a-fA-F]{2}(-[0-9a-fA-F]{2}){5}". E.g. from https://github.com/YangModels/yang/blob/master/standard/ieee/draf= t/802/ieee802-types.yang There has been some suggestion from folks in IEEE that they would like us t= o deprecate the IETF definition and migrate to the IEEE definition. Howeve= r, this would end up being an NBC change and doesn't seem to be great from = an interoperability POV. Another, possibly more pragmatic, suggestion would be the change both defin= itions to accept either ":" or "-". I.e. the pattern statement would beco= me: "[0-9a-fA-F]{2}([-:][0-9a-fA-F]{2}){5}"; What are folk's opinions of including this change in RFC 6991bis? Thanks, Rob --_000_MN2PR11MB4366ABF427070927849E4A03B5C90MN2PR11MB4366namp_ Content-Type: text/html; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

RFC 6991 defines MAC address using colons:

 

     typedef mac-addre=
ss {
       type =
string {
       =
  pattern '[0-9a-fA-F]{2}(:[0-9a-fA-F]{2}){5}';

       }


       descr=
iption


       =
 "The mac-address type represents an IEEE 802 MAC address.<=
/span>


       =
  The canonical representation uses lowercase characters.


 


       =
  In the value set and its semantics, this type is equivalent


       =
  to the MacAddress textual convention of the SMIv2.";=



       refer=
ence


       =
 "IEEE 802: IEEE Standard for Local and Metropolitan Area


       =
            Networks=
: Overview and Architecture


       =
  RFC 2579: Textua=
l Conventions for SMIv2";


     }


 


IEEE has their own definition using dashes instead o=
f colons, i.e. the pattern is "[0-9a-fA-F]{2}(-[0-9a-fA-F]{2}){5}"=
;.


 


E.g. from 
https://github.com/YangModels/yang/blob/master/standard/ieee/draft/802/ieee=
802-types.yang


 


There has been some suggestion from folks in IEEE th=
at they would like us to deprecate the IETF definition and migrate to the I=
EEE definition.  However, this would end up being an NBC change and do=
esn’t seem to be great from an interoperability
 POV.


 


Another, possibly more pragmatic, suggestion would b=
e the change both definitions to accept either “:” or “-&=
#8220;.   I.e. the pattern statement would become:  "[0=
-9a-fA-F]{2}([-:][0-9a-fA-F]{2}){5}";


 


What=
 are folk’s opinions of including this change in RFC 6991bis?


 


Than=
ks,


Rob =
--_000_MN2PR11MB4366ABF427070927849E4A03B5C90MN2PR11MB4366namp_-- From nobody Wed Apr 1 03:52:34 2020 Return-Path: X-Original-To: netmod@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: netmod@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1A0B63A0842 for ; Wed, 1 Apr 2020 03:52:32 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.899 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.899 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=unavailable autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id GzP5702HZmRM for ; Wed, 1 Apr 2020 03:52:30 -0700 (PDT) Received: from gabriel-vm-2.zfn.uni-bremen.de (gabriel-vm-2.zfn.uni-bremen.de [134.102.50.17]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher AECDH-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 36CC63A0843 for ; Wed, 1 Apr 2020 03:52:30 -0700 (PDT) Received: from [192.168.217.119] (p548DCD70.dip0.t-ipconnect.de [84.141.205.112]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by gabriel-vm-2.zfn.uni-bremen.de (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 48sjh750Z8zyhB; Wed, 1 Apr 2020 12:52:23 +0200 (CEST) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 13.0 \(3608.60.0.2.5\)) From: Carsten Bormann In-Reply-To: Date: Wed, 1 Apr 2020 12:52:23 +0200 Cc: NetMod WG X-Mao-Original-Outgoing-Id: 607431143.055284-2dc3524a5db50ac6219834827d613bf9 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Message-Id: References: To: "Rob Wilton (rwilton)" X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.3608.60.0.2.5) Archived-At: Subject: Re: [netmod] YANG definition of MAC address X-BeenThere: netmod@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: NETMOD WG list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 01 Apr 2020 10:52:32 -0000 On 2020-04-01, at 12:20, Rob Wilton (rwilton) = wrote: >=20 > Another, possibly more pragmatic, suggestion would be the change both = definitions to accept either =E2=80=9C:=E2=80=9D or =E2=80=9C-=E2=80=9C. = I.e. the pattern statement would become: = "[0-9a-fA-F]{2}([-:][0-9a-fA-F]{2}){5}" This isn=E2=80=99t backwards-compatible either? Or would that only be done for future modules? I don=E2=80=99t see the gain, but I see a lot of pain. 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Wed, 1 Apr 2020 11:01:09 +0000 Date: Wed, 1 Apr 2020 13:01:08 +0200 From: Juergen Schoenwaelder To: "Rob Wilton (rwilton)" Cc: NetMod WG Message-ID: <20200401110108.zpxbc5q7xis37dpy@anna.jacobs.jacobs-university.de> Reply-To: Juergen Schoenwaelder Mail-Followup-To: "Rob Wilton (rwilton)" , NetMod WG References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: X-ClientProxiedBy: AM4PR0101CA0045.eurprd01.prod.exchangelabs.com (2603:10a6:200:41::13) To DB6P190MB0310.EURP190.PROD.OUTLOOK.COM (2603:10a6:6:3e::13) MIME-Version: 1.0 X-MS-Exchange-MessageSentRepresentingType: 1 Received: from localhost (2001:638:709:5::7) by AM4PR0101CA0045.eurprd01.prod.exchangelabs.com (2603:10a6:200:41::13) with Microsoft SMTP Server (version=TLS1_2, cipher=TLS_ECDHE_RSA_WITH_AES_256_GCM_SHA384) id 15.20.2878.15 via Frontend Transport; Wed, 1 Apr 2020 11:01:09 +0000 X-Originating-IP: [2001:638:709:5::7] X-MS-PublicTrafficType: Email X-MS-Office365-Filtering-Correlation-Id: 70b518ac-56d2-4b6f-c1e0-08d7d62bfbee X-MS-TrafficTypeDiagnostic: DB6P190MB0501: X-MS-Exchange-Transport-Forked: True X-Microsoft-Antispam-PRVS: X-MS-Oob-TLC-OOBClassifiers: OLM:8273; X-Forefront-PRVS: 03607C04F0 X-Forefront-Antispam-Report: CIP:255.255.255.255; CTRY:; LANG:en; SCL:1; SRV:; IPV:NLI; SFV:NSPM; H:DB6P190MB0310.EURP190.PROD.OUTLOOK.COM; PTR:; CAT:NONE; SFTY:; SFS:(10009020)(39850400004)(346002)(376002)(396003)(366004)(136003)(5660300002)(81166006)(66556008)(66476007)(66946007)(4326008)(6486002)(86362001)(52116002)(6496006)(6916009)(186003)(1076003)(81156014)(3450700001)(786003)(316002)(966005)(8676002)(16526019)(2906002)(8936002)(478600001); DIR:OUT; SFP:1101; Received-SPF: None (protection.outlook.com: jacobs-university.de does not designate permitted sender hosts) X-MS-Exchange-SenderADCheck: 1 X-Microsoft-Antispam: BCL:0; X-Microsoft-Antispam-Message-Info: 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 X-MS-Exchange-AntiSpam-MessageData: JAb/W/vJouQuH8Y/eLK+B1MV3zNIPGtfkjeFeHyzIGx1fQoypR1rCQVIdEIVV9lX3NWYC7GqYaNKC7V3DuJ8df6dkfmplstDVPuDpMr2jsU8NaYSgmnaTK7vwmMYthYFz864DllWSG5FRtQJR0NLTw3daNGzDFH5OgumAPFYN/Y= X-OriginatorOrg: jacobs-university.de X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-Network-Message-Id: 70b518ac-56d2-4b6f-c1e0-08d7d62bfbee X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-OriginalArrivalTime: 01 Apr 2020 11:01:09.6299 (UTC) X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-FromEntityHeader: Hosted X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-Id: f78e973e-5c0b-4ab8-bbd7-9887c95a8ebd X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-MailboxType: HOSTED X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-UserPrincipalName: Ge8VH3Gh4+e16KxHeZNvjwTuuPiH5JBOzfcf/owXOFazhvDIYfSrdopr3xDIn3gRO5JTv0df6wBs20YRu5j5Jx1WmINfL5UaexSnIhQ1fYc= X-MS-Exchange-Transport-CrossTenantHeadersStamped: DB6P190MB0501 Archived-At: Subject: Re: [netmod] YANG definition of MAC address X-BeenThere: netmod@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: NETMOD WG list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 01 Apr 2020 11:01:18 -0000 On Wed, Apr 01, 2020 at 10:20:10AM +0000, Rob Wilton (rwilton) wrote: > > IEEE has their own definition using dashes instead of colons, i.e. the pattern is "[0-9a-fA-F]{2}(-[0-9a-fA-F]{2}){5}". > > E.g. from https://github.com/YangModels/yang/blob/master/standard/ieee/draft/802/ieee802-types.yang > > There has been some suggestion from folks in IEEE that they would like us to deprecate the IETF definition and migrate to the IEEE definition. However, this would end up being an NBC change and doesn't seem to be great from an interoperability POV. > > Another, possibly more pragmatic, suggestion would be the change both definitions to accept either ":" or "-". I.e. the pattern statement would become: "[0-9a-fA-F]{2}([-:][0-9a-fA-F]{2}){5}"; > > What are folk's opinions of including this change in RFC 6991bis? > As of today, you can't change the definition, you can only deprecate it and create a new one. On the technical side, we like to have canonical formats, so the debate what is the canonical format would still exist, even if we allow both formats as valid inputs. Given that the colon format has been around for way more than 20 years (see for example RFC 2579, STD 58), this exercise seems like a waste of energy, it might take multiple decades to get changes widely implemented and deployed. /js -- Juergen Schoenwaelder Jacobs University Bremen gGmbH Phone: +49 421 200 3587 Campus Ring 1 | 28759 Bremen | Germany Fax: +49 421 200 3103 From nobody Wed Apr 1 04:03:09 2020 Return-Path: X-Original-To: netmod@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: netmod@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id DF3943A0837 for ; Wed, 1 Apr 2020 04:03:07 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.898 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.898 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id Hh4lzMOwdQr6 for ; Wed, 1 Apr 2020 04:03:06 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail.tail-f.com (mail.tail-f.com [46.21.102.45]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id DFBE93A08AB for ; Wed, 1 Apr 2020 04:03:05 -0700 (PDT) Received: from [192.168.1.121] (213-67-237-150-no99.tbcn.telia.com [213.67.237.150]) by mail.tail-f.com (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id B3DA41AE0309; Wed, 1 Apr 2020 13:03:04 +0200 (CEST) From: Jan Lindblad Message-Id: Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="Apple-Mail=_F6268073-316D-47A7-ABD8-25179B20D638" Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 13.4 \(3608.80.23.2.2\)) Date: Wed, 1 Apr 2020 13:03:04 +0200 In-Reply-To: Cc: NetMod WG To: "Rob Wilton (rwilton)" References: X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.3608.80.23.2.2) Archived-At: Subject: Re: [netmod] YANG definition of MAC address X-BeenThere: netmod@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: NETMOD WG list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 01 Apr 2020 11:03:08 -0000 --Apple-Mail=_F6268073-316D-47A7-ABD8-25179B20D638 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Rob, I can see the attraction in allowing both. It has a major drawback, = though. If the mac address is used as a key in lists, it could easily = happen that two values that differ only in hyphen/colonization would be = accepted into the same list as distinct. That might break quite a few = use cases. I don't really care which notation is used, but FWIW googling for "mac = address format hyphen" and "mac address format colon" gives about 5 = times more hits for the latter. Best Regards, /jan > On 1 Apr 2020, at 12:20, Rob Wilton (rwilton) = wrote: >=20 > RFC 6991 defines MAC address using colons: > =20 > typedef mac-address { > type string { > pattern '[0-9a-fA-F]{2}(:[0-9a-fA-F]{2}){5}'; > } > description > "The mac-address type represents an IEEE 802 MAC address. > The canonical representation uses lowercase characters. > =20 > In the value set and its semantics, this type is equivalent > to the MacAddress textual convention of the SMIv2."; > reference > "IEEE 802: IEEE Standard for Local and Metropolitan Area > Networks: Overview and Architecture > RFC 2579 : Textual = Conventions for SMIv2"; > } > =20 > IEEE has their own definition using dashes instead of colons, i.e. the = pattern is "[0-9a-fA-F]{2}(-[0-9a-fA-F]{2}){5}". > =20 > E.g. from = https://github.com/YangModels/yang/blob/master/standard/ieee/draft/802/iee= e802-types.yang = > =20 > There has been some suggestion from folks in IEEE that they would like = us to deprecate the IETF definition and migrate to the IEEE definition. = However, this would end up being an NBC change and doesn=E2=80=99t seem = to be great from an interoperability POV. > =20 > Another, possibly more pragmatic, suggestion would be the change both = definitions to accept either =E2=80=9C:=E2=80=9D or =E2=80=9C-=E2=80=9C. = I.e. the pattern statement would become: = "[0-9a-fA-F]{2}([-:][0-9a-fA-F]{2}){5}"; > =20 > What are folk=E2=80=99s opinions of including this change in RFC = 6991bis? > =20 > Thanks, > Rob=20 > _______________________________________________ > netmod mailing list > netmod@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/netmod = --Apple-Mail=_F6268073-316D-47A7-ABD8-25179B20D638 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/html; charset=utf-8 Rob,

I = can see the attraction in allowing both. It has a major drawback, = though. If the mac address is used as a key in lists, it could easily = happen that two values that differ only in hyphen/colonization would be = accepted into the same list as distinct. That might break quite a few = use cases.

I = don't really care which notation is used, but FWIW googling for "mac = address format hyphen" and "mac address format colon" gives about 5 = times more hits for the latter.

Best Regards,
/jan


On 1 Apr 2020, at 12:20, Rob Wilton (rwilton) <rwilton=3D40cisco.com@dmarc.ietf.org> wrote:

RFC 6991 = defines MAC address using colons:
 
     typedef mac-address {
       type string =
{
         pattern =
'[0-9a-fA-F]{2}(:[0-9a-fA-F]{2}){5}';
       }
  =
     description
        "The =
mac-address type represents an IEEE 802 MAC address.
         =
The canonical representation uses lowercase characters.
 
         In the value =
set and its semantics, this type is equivalent
         =
to the MacAddress textual convention of the SMIv2.";
       reference
        "IEEE =
802: IEEE Standard for Local and Metropolitan Area
          &nb=
sp;        Networks: Overview and =
Architecture
         RFC 2579: Textual =
Conventions for SMIv2";
     }
 
IEEE has = their own definition using dashes instead of colons, i.e. the pattern is = "[0-9a-fA-F]{2}(-[0-9a-fA-F]{2}){5}".
 
E.g. from https://github.com/YangModels/yang/blob/master/standard/ieee/dr= aft/802/ieee802-types.yang
 
There has been some suggestion from = folks in IEEE that they would like us to deprecate the IETF definition = and migrate to the IEEE definition.  However, this would end up = being an NBC change and doesn=E2=80=99t seem to be great from an = interoperability POV.
 
Another, possibly more pragmatic, suggestion would be the = change both definitions to accept either =E2=80=9C:=E2=80=9D or =E2=80=9C-= =E2=80=9C.   I.e. the pattern statement would become: =  "[0-9a-fA-F]{2}([-:][0-9a-fA-F]{2}){5}";
 
What= are folk=E2=80=99s opinions of including this change in RFC = 6991bis?
 
Thanks,
Rob 
_______________________________________________
netmod mailing list
netmod@ietf.org
https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/netmod

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Wed, 1 Apr 2020 11:05:10 +0000 From: tom petch To: Andy Bierman , Kent Watsen CC: "netmod@ietf.org" , "Rob Wilton (rwilton)" Thread-Topic: [netmod] All IETF YANG modules MUST include revision-label statements Thread-Index: AQHWBryMF2P3krh/H0WDgnCbcEWL3Khhcj8AgAAIq4CAASIAAIAAOhsAgAAL0wCAATXpIw== Date: Wed, 1 Apr 2020 11:05:10 +0000 Message-ID: References: <75CFDBD9-143C-407A-B7C3-26CEC51E229C@cisco.com> <20200328.094121.1160081114435152145.id@4668.se> <76623C79-BB91-4B5F-8FEA-406ADEAD1647@cisco.com> <20200330.202016.930329343788112268.id@4668.se> <01000171313d4b26-a5e29676-2bd1-4bd0-9598-d3eee7fbf32d-000000@email.amazonses.com>, In-Reply-To: Accept-Language: en-GB, en-US Content-Language: en-GB X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: authentication-results: spf=none (sender IP is ) smtp.mailfrom=ietfc@btconnect.com; x-originating-ip: [81.131.229.19] x-ms-publictraffictype: Email x-ms-office365-filtering-correlation-id: 38323504-ad18-431f-34c7-08d7d62c8bd6 x-ms-traffictypediagnostic: DB7PR07MB4919: x-microsoft-antispam-prvs: x-ms-oob-tlc-oobclassifiers: OLM:7691; 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charset="Windows-1252" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable MIME-Version: 1.0 X-OriginatorOrg: btconnect.com X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-Network-Message-Id: 38323504-ad18-431f-34c7-08d7d62c8bd6 X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-originalarrivaltime: 01 Apr 2020 11:05:10.7601 (UTC) X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-fromentityheader: Hosted X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-id: cf8853ed-96e5-465b-9185-806bfe185e30 X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-mailboxtype: HOSTED X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-userprincipalname: r2tI4zR+QLqBMrVJfOidLCAzSHSiZIdNNUn7ea0pCGh2ER9yb9fAIA6V7uOdeALwePtOY0cG2u+Ic6MkvAqllg== X-MS-Exchange-Transport-CrossTenantHeadersStamped: DB7PR07MB4919 Archived-At: Subject: Re: [netmod] All IETF YANG modules MUST include revision-label statements X-BeenThere: netmod@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: NETMOD WG list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 01 Apr 2020 11:05:16 -0000 From: netmod on behalf of Andy Bierman =0A= Sent: 31 March 2020 17:19=0A= =0A= =0A= Agreeing with Andy that BC/NBC is a bad idea but from a different standpoin= t. In general the concept sounds great but turning it into an unambiguous,= usable by engineers test is mostly impossible as a number of discussions h= ave shown. Does it mean I can write a client that copes with old and new = server? or write a server that copes with old and new client? That has been= discussed with no resolution.=0A= What if the intended meaning of the WG was clear but someone later finds a = loophole and interprets it differently and the module is revised to be unam= biguous? BC for most but NBC for those who found a different meaning.=0A= Much depends on the original specification. It may say, in a routing proto= col,=0A= Unrecognised TLV must be discarded=0A= Unrecognised TLV must be treated as a fatal error=0A= Unrecognised TLV must be forwarded unaltered=0A= but many specifications are not that forward looking. It is rare for a YAN= G module to capture that forward thinking. =0A= I think that BC is a very seductive concept that leads onto the rocks.=0A= =0A= Tom Petch=0A= =0A= On Tue, Mar 31, 2020 at 8:37 AM Kent Watsen > wrote:=0A= [replying to Reshad as well]=0A= =0A= Hi Rob,=0A= =0A= My impression is that Semver 2.0.0 works fine if you can always force clien= ts to move to the latest version of the API whenever any bugfixes are made = to the API (whether they are BC or NBC). This is a natural fit for open so= urce projects, but not so great for long life paid support contracts.=0A= =0A= Agreed.=0A= =0A= =0A= The goal of YANG semver is not to facilitate release branching. It is to a= llow vendors to fix YANG modules without forcing clients to update to the l= atest version of that YANG module (which may contain other unrelated NBC ch= anges and have lots of dependencies on other modules).=0A= =0A= This is what Reshad was pointing to as well. I=92m very familiar with the = issue, from my Juniper days, where there were all sorts of patch and (gasp)= customer special releases, either of which could introduce any number of N= BCs.=0A= =0A= The background, of course, is that [very important] customers have working/= validated infrastructure running a specific release and simply cannot toler= ate any change beyond the very specific one they need *NOW*=0A= =0A= I get it, truly, but I feel that the =91m=92 / =91M=92 suffixes are both i= nconsistent with general understanding and insufficiently to express what i= s needed.=0A= =0A= =0A= =0A= +1=0A= =0A= I also find the granularity of NBC info to be mostly worthless at the modul= e level.=0A= There is no difference between a 1 leaf bugfix and a complete rewrite of th= e module.=0A= Let's say 1 leaf "type string" needs to be changed to add "length 1..max".= =0A= This reduces the value set for 1 leaf by 1 value.=0A= =0A= This flags the entire module as NBC and you would bump the major revision n= umber.=0A= The entire premise that one can decide if it is safe to upgrade based on th= e version string is flawed.=0A= =0A= =0A= A possible fix might be to allow for ..[-],= thereby enabling vendors to encode any format off a base release=85and rel= y on inspection of the =93revision=94 history indicate if/when NBC changes = occurred.=0A= =0A= But then I question (again) the need for the simplified format at all, as o= pposed to just using revision dates. For instance, if represent= s a long history of NBCs, that they were based on some source M.m.p starts = to lose relevance.=0A= =0A= Is the expectation that the vendor's module versions will use .. values mimicking their release numbers? For instance, would Foo= Bar OS version 20.1.2 implement YANG module "foobar@20.1.2=94? I can see= product mangers pushing for this, but then are companies (like Juniper) th= at use alternate release name-formatting strategies disadvantaged? How is = that fair? To thwart this, would the WG be willing to assert that the his= tory MUST start at 0.0.0 and MUST only monotonically increment values?=0A= =0A= =0A= Note that OpenConfig also hit this problem, but they proposed a different s= olution. I..e. ship the base module with another module that contains devi= ations to fix any bugs in the base module. Alas this completely decouples = the real module history from any revision-date/version number contained in = the module, since to really understand the version of the module you also n= eed to know the set of associated patch modules containing any deviations t= o the base module.=0A= =0A= I=92d need to see an illustration of this to be sure I understand, but my f= irst impression is that it is yet another attempt to fit a square into a ci= rcle.=0A= =0A= =0A= =0A= I don't have a solution proposal, but it would be great if a vendor could i= ssue a patch=0A= to a standard module which says "this is the standard module plus these kno= wn Errata ".=0A= OK if this is in the form of deviations=0A= =0A= In the end, I see no substitute to relying on =93revision=94 history which = 1) perfectly tracks branching history and can flag if/when NBC changes occu= rred.=0A= =0A= =0A= Agreed=0A= =0A= =0A= Kent // contributor=0A= =0A= =0A= =0A= =0A= Andy=0A= =0A= From nobody Wed Apr 1 04:21:25 2020 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01 Apr 2020 14:25:22.2089 (UTC) X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-fromentityheader: Hosted X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-id: 5ae1af62-9505-4097-a69a-c1553ef7840e X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-mailboxtype: HOSTED X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-userprincipalname: aYRlSAUQIP35ZFNUDdWPM1l5W60F+9CJXMzxErB5JOzbU/PXYAkrPOrFRdWtHlny1kuVHQNezipT1ZWsuBmguw== X-MS-Exchange-Transport-CrossTenantHeadersStamped: MN2PR11MB4255 X-OriginatorOrg: cisco.com X-Outbound-SMTP-Client: 173.36.7.14, xch-aln-004.cisco.com X-Outbound-Node: alln-core-3.cisco.com Archived-At: Subject: Re: [netmod] YANG definition of MAC address X-BeenThere: netmod@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: NETMOD WG list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 01 Apr 2020 14:25:27 -0000 > -----Original Message----- > From: Juergen Schoenwaelder > Sent: 01 April 2020 12:01 > To: Rob Wilton (rwilton) > Cc: NetMod WG > Subject: Re: YANG definition of MAC address >=20 > On Wed, Apr 01, 2020 at 10:20:10AM +0000, Rob Wilton (rwilton) wrote: > > > > IEEE has their own definition using dashes instead of colons, i.e. the > pattern is "[0-9a-fA-F]{2}(-[0-9a-fA-F]{2}){5}". > > > > E.g. from > > https://github.com/YangModels/yang/blob/master/standard/ieee/draft/802 > > /ieee802-types.yang > > > > There has been some suggestion from folks in IEEE that they would like > us to deprecate the IETF definition and migrate to the IEEE definition. > However, this would end up being an NBC change and doesn't seem to be > great from an interoperability POV. > > > > Another, possibly more pragmatic, suggestion would be the change both > definitions to accept either ":" or "-". I.e. the pattern statement > would become: "[0-9a-fA-F]{2}([-:][0-9a-fA-F]{2}){5}"; > > > > What are folk's opinions of including this change in RFC 6991bis? > > >=20 > As of today, you can't change the definition, you can only deprecate it > and create a new one. On the technical side, we like to have canonical > formats, so the debate what is the canonical format would still exist, > even if we allow both formats as valid inputs. [RW]=20 I hadn't considered the canonical format/list key issue. I will also point= this out in the IEEE discussion. >=20 > Given that the colon format has been around for way more than 20 years > (see for example RFC 2579, STD 58), this exercise seems like a waste of > energy, it might take multiple decades to get changes widely implemented > and deployed. [RW]=20 Thanks. Yes, I have made both of those points. Regards, Rob >=20 > /js >=20 > -- > Juergen Schoenwaelder Jacobs University Bremen gGmbH > Phone: +49 421 200 3587 Campus Ring 1 | 28759 Bremen | Germany > Fax: +49 421 200 3103 From nobody Wed Apr 1 08:05:51 2020 Return-Path: X-Original-To: netmod@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: netmod@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id E5D013A1112 for ; Wed, 1 Apr 2020 08:05:49 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -9.597 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-9.597 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_EF=-0.1, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_H3=0.001, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_WL=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001, USER_IN_DEF_DKIM_WL=-7.5] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (1024-bit key) header.d=cisco.com header.b=L55J8Jv3; dkim=pass (1024-bit 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for ; Wed, 01 Apr 2020 10:28:46 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=yumaworks-com.20150623.gappssmtp.com; s=20150623; h=mime-version:from:date:message-id:subject:to; bh=2JJaGdwAjsrYsFZQQIXPsfP7qOOEFq7p96qn4BgeKnQ=; b=zlfkFNlFK3qMCmOl8+K9o+G3+gEjBE7o5hh/BhH51i2Z5c5wlYXU6a/ttfGaCbKfcx ZjmOyrSMzdTc/fpsoctbvM2CyPqx0Yzb96/R5+kYOCXZVcgeOTVjcV0BjatxbV48/q+x cxJM6dQoaHfG9JtS6067+aa3GpJPyTeT9KAuEtCipTjlRRXrADCsOHW+M5dWRW7YFMxX IfUniKIzboAaJoSo25xsQCQKdMXfJJSW5gSvkAC+GUVBxfOE3XlDfYR/WPFLqTllqpZd PHFdilAWRET99XgSvgmHMchTPYlQkpHJvzihLiok5XoueevFYyIXvsG28yyYNert2Mzi TYoQ== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:from:date:message-id:subject:to; bh=2JJaGdwAjsrYsFZQQIXPsfP7qOOEFq7p96qn4BgeKnQ=; b=ufoyhOZYMcdlcKEqf9Di4iZJzXapHBwwxJ13BTiebWAgpNYH+2yd3MRbZrI5HO5QkC 5Zle7fnSMXhOyaljCeUcCVwkKqC/JNTAOHIaefIlB0TWDGsBA61C9YzUkyK/Y2Bfyg5W 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X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 01 Apr 2020 17:29:09 -0000 --00000000000029c06c05a23e0443 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Hi, I just want to confirm that all the proposed documentation procedures using new extensions are limited in scope to published modules only, and not applied to unpublished modules (terms defined in RFC 8407). IMO it would be harmful to module usability to assign revision-labels or include revision-related extensions in unpublished modules (e.g., Internet Drafts). Consider how cluttered and confusing the client-server modules would be if the 50+ NBC changes and versions were tracked through all the I-Ds. For IETF modules, the first usage of the revision-label should be in the initial RFC, and be set to 1.0.0. If the RFC is ever republished then one can expect to find an updated revision-label and possibly extensions tracking NBC changes. Andy --00000000000029c06c05a23e0443 Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Hi,

I just want to confirm that all the= proposed documentation procedures
using new extensions are limit= ed in scope to published modules only,
and not applied to unpubli= shed modules (terms defined in RFC 8407).

IMO it w= ould be harmful to module usability to assign revision-labels or
= include revision-related extensions in unpublished modules (e.g., Internet = Drafts).
Consider how cluttered and confusing the client-server m= odules would be
if the 50+ NBC changes and versions were tracked = through all the I-Ds.

For IETF modules, the first = usage of the revision-label
should be in the initial RFC, and be = set to 1.0.0.

If the RFC is ever republished then = one can expect to find an updated
revision-label and possibly ext= ensions tracking NBC changes.


Andy<= /div>


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(PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=yumaworks-com.20150623.gappssmtp.com; s=20150623; h=mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date:message-id:subject:to :cc; bh=VO1PH+iQXhd4ZXI9CJa2xG3AuRfJlDACv4s45nMWf2Y=; b=0LtOSDsN2hi6+vIeTpMX5WSNDRYT35t3VH4uYtsiJk50dMd9FY/mvkJFGV6DJm3WKL 3CRYxT3g6QWkRdXzMwzqf6QLV7eZcYj4lLUTQLsKyAi8QLVg359AogADw9Mt9DXyd+76 BX2k+MwcY/Uo30PBkNy+40EhZ121d+NFmoaqgGUDbB+ChE5B/LGZvwUC+g3rCvQH20nL 3P7LcS6dj7mRftm0sjvDjWovXIDIEJi+3ZZadmbzmUhbLBjrUq3S91E49aYIpbsdrCtK Hk9MobI8EWQqLZL7HGiDyh49P+1lg2upV+yxiA8H4QjaR2I7EOk3RUv15IDL2+08A9fw 6L8A== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date :message-id:subject:to:cc; bh=VO1PH+iQXhd4ZXI9CJa2xG3AuRfJlDACv4s45nMWf2Y=; b=U2p6of4VA7tMs0r2mTXfI4gUlMMCPaVs3G/qf5sKXnOJVpvTuT8+AlZcy8DpPJMcu2 sMAHlzwYhWfDFgQHNTQh8VN+Pe8tsrPausDpmeXxhPgliplkBL7DrCiRyy200nbhTbya XRmNMbF5G8DAgrRtEaG5j/UID2aC2ld/TIrL+kokpmrWrO08Tibcftl8Pw0aXnVXkaYF aHUTJjs53Ii+d2NMPvIlttcAyzI6Gx56jCBUdxu2wovQK++HUorzrE+lqYFtrnY03dB3 jgRw6E6BEDmuRM3oIFWR4EiBIOnSAmVngvNxhgtVPPe4HvQAV0/jjDN+s+nEdPW6XBgp aL+w== X-Gm-Message-State: ANhLgQ1TTXrSEeqnMfH4Yw3yEKpTyKjnUbhs02f/CVV/mWeMbgLISX7X vHsaI2qlU66Lx7pwe06zoKno7mbxeH3DnXHvLCdJ9Q== X-Google-Smtp-Source: ADFU+vvdfLBIwAbFfQbFXdo6W/ImoWsBLj7s2tfFC+XnF3EVc9h1CdSMZKoic8Nx0t+n7rlwU0Vah0ZC87I5RXs4Kf4= X-Received: by 2002:a25:158a:: with SMTP id 132mr31987314ybv.145.1585764440104; Wed, 01 Apr 2020 11:07:20 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 References: In-Reply-To: From: Andy Bierman Date: Wed, 1 Apr 2020 11:07:09 -0700 Message-ID: To: "Joe Clarke (jclarke)" Cc: NetMod WG Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="000000000000268a6d05a23e8e62" Archived-At: Subject: Re: [netmod] versioning procedures (RFC vs. I-D) X-BeenThere: netmod@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: NETMOD WG list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 01 Apr 2020 18:07:24 -0000 --000000000000268a6d05a23e8e62 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable On Wed, Apr 1, 2020 at 10:39 AM Joe Clarke (jclarke) wrote: > > > > On Apr 1, 2020, at 13:28, Andy Bierman wrote: > > > > Hi, > > > > I just want to confirm that all the proposed documentation procedures > > using new extensions are limited in scope to published modules only, > > and not applied to unpublished modules (terms defined in RFC 8407). > > > > IMO it would be harmful to module usability to assign revision-labels o= r > > include revision-related extensions in unpublished modules (e.g., > Internet Drafts). > > Consider how cluttered and confusing the client-server modules would be > > if the 50+ NBC changes and versions were tracked through all the I-Ds. > > > > For IETF modules, the first usage of the revision-label > > should be in the initial RFC, and be set to 1.0.0. > > > > If the RFC is ever republished then one can expect to find an updated > > revision-label and possibly extensions tracking NBC changes. > > The semver scheme allocates a major version of 0 for pre-releases where > the BC/NBC rules do not apply. I agree that a first official RFC release > should be 1.0.0 (from a semver revision-label standpoint). From a design > team standpoint, I know we mentioned the 0 versioning early on, but I don= =E2=80=99t > think we spent much time talking about modules under development overall. > > IMO it is confusing to ignore the semver rules for the special 0.x.y releases. There are many NBC changes made at this point which are treated as minor or patch changes. The procedure is really broken once you consider a WG developing any RFC-bis module. Now the major version is not 0 and all updates look like real releases. > My take would align to yours that we wouldn=E2=80=99t clutter a module wi= th > development NBC tracking. > > Joe Andy --000000000000268a6d05a23e8e62 Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable


=
On Wed, Apr 1, 2020 at 10:39 AM Joe C= larke (jclarke) <jclarke@cisco.com<= /a>> wrote:
<= br>
> On Apr 1, 2020, at 13:28, Andy Bierman <andy@yumaworks.com> wrote:
>
> Hi,
>
> I just want to confirm that all the proposed documentation procedures<= br> > using new extensions are limited in scope to published modules only, > and not applied to unpublished modules (terms defined in RFC 8407). >
> IMO it would be harmful to module usability to assign revision-labels = or
> include revision-related extensions in unpublished modules (e.g., Inte= rnet Drafts).
> Consider how cluttered and confusing the client-server modules would b= e
> if the 50+ NBC changes and versions were tracked through all the I-Ds.=
>
> For IETF modules, the first usage of the revision-label
> should be in the initial RFC, and be set to 1.0.0.
>
> If the RFC is ever republished then one can expect to find an updated<= br> > revision-label and possibly extensions tracking NBC changes.

The semver scheme allocates a major version of 0 for pre-releases where the= BC/NBC rules do not apply.=C2=A0 I agree that a first official RFC release= should be 1.0.0 (from a semver revision-label standpoint).=C2=A0 From a de= sign team standpoint, I know we mentioned the 0 versioning early on, but I = don=E2=80=99t think we spent much time talking about modules under developm= ent overall.



IMO it is confusing to = ignore the semver rules for the special 0.x.y releases.
There are= many NBC changes made at this point which are treated as minor or patch ch= anges.
The procedure is really broken once you consider a WG deve= loping any RFC-bis module.
Now the major version is not 0 and all= updates look like real releases.
=C2=A0
My take would align to yours that we wouldn=E2=80=99t clutter a module with= development NBC tracking.

Joe

Andy
=C2=A0
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OHB0O21hcmdpbi1yaWdodDowY20iPg0KPHAgY2xhc3M9Ik1zb05vcm1hbCI+TXkgdGFrZSB3b3Vs ZCBhbGlnbiB0byB5b3VycyB0aGF0IHdlIHdvdWxkbuKAmXQgY2x1dHRlciBhIG1vZHVsZSB3aXRo IGRldmVsb3BtZW50IE5CQyB0cmFja2luZy48YnI+DQo8YnI+DQpKb2U8bzpwPjwvbzpwPjwvcD4N CjwvYmxvY2txdW90ZT4NCjxkaXY+DQo8cCBjbGFzcz0iTXNvTm9ybWFsIj48bzpwPiZuYnNwOzwv bzpwPjwvcD4NCjwvZGl2Pg0KPGRpdj4NCjxwIGNsYXNzPSJNc29Ob3JtYWwiPkFuZHk8bzpwPjwv bzpwPjwvcD4NCjwvZGl2Pg0KPGRpdj4NCjxwIGNsYXNzPSJNc29Ob3JtYWwiPiZuYnNwOzxvOnA+ PC9vOnA+PC9wPg0KPC9kaXY+DQo8L2Rpdj4NCjwvZGl2Pg0KPC9kaXY+DQo8L2JvZHk+DQo8L2h0 bWw+DQo= --_000_50052092038044C68AE01AB3C15C30B4ciscocom_-- From nobody Wed Apr 1 12:03:21 2020 Return-Path: <0100017137204b39-861805f4-d7d4-4f1c-ba57-c7bba50ccf87-000000@amazonses.watsen.net> X-Original-To: netmod@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: netmod@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id BDA703A16DD for ; Wed, 1 Apr 2020 12:03:18 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.897 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.897 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_NONE=0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (1024-bit key) header.d=amazonses.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id drg7z4fUE6mF for ; Wed, 1 Apr 2020 12:03:17 -0700 (PDT) Received: from a8-88.smtp-out.amazonses.com (a8-88.smtp-out.amazonses.com [54.240.8.88]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 1D06F3A16E2 for ; Wed, 1 Apr 2020 12:03:16 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; q=dns/txt; c=relaxed/simple; s=224i4yxa5dv7c2xz3womw6peuasteono; d=amazonses.com; t=1585767795; h=From:Content-Type:Content-Transfer-Encoding:Mime-Version:Subject:Date:References:To:In-Reply-To:Message-Id:Feedback-ID; bh=CpqAu6bdy+o07UEdOJnCAVWf0JgbkLl+JVBzMTRJESY=; b=W2UrjDUGMix/THTgPYd6EZcYhIZDdyvAWR2RXsx7oKL6Ecjkk+Z4mTr3kjq5UzbD VOM1MQVjmnjirdNkFY2GwKf812R8j8Jy7JqmomiT7451j7zpyarnLsrl+zwiY0mCzoq OBkTyyXZYSWKAikOxBDQUP1arH8hnWcYj03N8sJc= From: Kent Watsen Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 12.4 \(3445.104.11\)) Date: Wed, 1 Apr 2020 19:03:15 +0000 References: <010001712d9cef2c-ad1e2b06-7d1c-4362-98e4-a6d1463e1480-000000@email.amazonses.com> <01000171314ecdec-e3d5f74f-4e11-459e-9a18-0d4a20b0d54d-000000@email.amazonses.com> <010001713238efd0-c50867e7-e1f6-40aa-a892-c50a829ebaa5-000000@email.amazonses.com> To: "netmod@ietf.org" In-Reply-To: <010001713238efd0-c50867e7-e1f6-40aa-a892-c50a829ebaa5-000000@email.amazonses.com> Message-ID: <0100017137204b39-861805f4-d7d4-4f1c-ba57-c7bba50ccf87-000000@email.amazonses.com> X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.3445.104.11) X-SES-Outgoing: 2020.04.01-54.240.8.88 Feedback-ID: 1.us-east-1.DKmIRZFhhsBhtmFMNikgwZUWVrODEw9qVcPhqJEI2DA=:AmazonSES Archived-At: Subject: Re: [netmod] Agenda for Virtual NETMOD Meeting X-BeenThere: netmod@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: NETMOD WG list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 01 Apr 2020 19:03:19 -0000 [Updated agenda, now each =E2=80=9Cverdt=E2=80=9D presentation is = separated and in order] Also posted here: = https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/agenda-interim-2020-netmod-01-netmod-01 Agenda for the NETMOD 107 WG Session ------------------------------------ Session: Thursday April 2nd PDT: 04:00-06:00=20 EDT: 07:00-09:00 UTC: 11:00-13:00 CST: 19:00-21:00 WG Chairs: Lou Berger (lberger at labs dot net) Kent Watsen (kent plus ietf at watsen dot net) Joel Jaeggli (joelja at bogus dot com) Available During Session: Jabber: xmpp:netmod@jabber.ietf.org?join Etherpad: https://etherpad.ietf.org/p/notes-ietf-107-netmod ICal: = https://datatracker.ietf.org/meeting/interim-2020-netmod-01/sessions/netmo= d.ics Slides: = https://datatracker.ietf.org/meeting/interim-2020-netmod-01/session/netmod= WebEx Chat: For virtual queue control (type "+q" and "-q" to = enter/leave) WebEx A/V: For session (see below for info) JOIN BY WEBEX: URL: = https://ietf.webex.com/ietf/j.php?MTID=3Dme2e37606188ba99be744a57adbcd5802= Meeting number (access code): 616 779 982 Meeting password: mYtpMnVP524 JOIN BY PHONE 1-650-479-3208 Call-in toll number (US/Canada) Tap here to call (mobile phones only, hosts not supported): tel:%2B1-650-479-3208,,*01*616779982%23%23*01*=20 1-877-668-4493 Call-in toll free number (US/Canada) Tap here to call (mobile phones only, hosts not supported): tel:1-877-668-4493,,*01*616779982%23%23*01* Toll-free calling restrictions https://www.webex.com/pdf/tollfree_restrictions.pdf Available Post Session: Recording: WebEx recording be made available after the meeting. Jabber Logs: https://www.ietf.org/jabber/logs/netmod Etherpad: https://etherpad.ietf.org/p/notes-ietf-107-netmod Slides: = https://datatracker.ietf.org/meeting/interim-2020-netmod-01/session/netmod= =20 Introduction TITLE: Session Intro & WG Status PRESENTER: Chairs Adopted items: TITLE: YANG Versioning Solution Overview PRESENTER: Rob Wilton (as contributor) DRAFT(s) https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-netmod-yang-solutions-00 TITLE: Updated YANG Module Revision Handling PRESENTER: Reshad Rahman DRAFT(s) = https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-netmod-yang-module-versioning-00 TITLE: YANG Semantic Versioning PRESENTER: Joe Clarke DRAFT(s) https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-netmod-yang-semver-00 TITLE: YANG Packages PRESENTER: Bo Wu DRAFT(s) https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-netmod-yang-packages-00 TITLE: YANG Schema Selection PRESENTER: Jason Sterne DRAFT(s) https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-netmod-yang-ver-selection-00 TITLE: YANG Schema Comparison PRESENTER: Reshad Rahman DRAFT(s) = https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-netmod-yang-schema-comparison-00 Not-Yet-Adopted items: TITLE: A YANG Data model for ECA Policy Management PRESENTER: Authors DRAFT(s) https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-wwx-netmod-event-yang-06 TITLE: YANG Data Node Self Explanation Tags PRESENTER: Tao,Ran DRAFT(s) https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-tao-netmod-yang-node-tags-01 TITLE: 3GPP's UML to YANG Object Module Mapping PRESENTER: Balazs Lengyel DRAFT(s) None TITLE: CORECONF PRESENTER: Carsten Bormann DRAFT(s) https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-core-yang-cbor-12 https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-core-sid-11 https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-core-comi-09 https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-core-yang-library-01 From nobody Wed Apr 1 16:17:24 2020 Return-Path: <010001713808e893-3725b2c2-db71-47b1-8a39-e69f8c264d42-000000@amazonses.watsen.net> X-Original-To: netmod@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: netmod@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id F2EC03A130C for ; Wed, 1 Apr 2020 16:17:22 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.897 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.897 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_NONE=0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (1024-bit key) header.d=amazonses.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id s3ht2NYQzVIE for ; Wed, 1 Apr 2020 16:17:21 -0700 (PDT) Received: from a48-92.smtp-out.amazonses.com (a48-92.smtp-out.amazonses.com [54.240.48.92]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id A2E6E3A130B for ; Wed, 1 Apr 2020 16:17:21 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; q=dns/txt; c=relaxed/simple; s=224i4yxa5dv7c2xz3womw6peuasteono; d=amazonses.com; t=1585783040; h=From:Content-Type:Content-Transfer-Encoding:Mime-Version:Subject:Message-Id:Date:To:Feedback-ID; bh=qu4SsuTX+gbowIv2dYIn0g87NRBZ3xkPiaLD//uNWf0=; b=OHoWDo5pVYaREldhm+rDs4Y4Hg981wFJhAvdrBHHTiCZvkmGQirSXWosJPaFfunc 1WKfbeMUearGRvzvvNqR6fIavv9y26D4HoCAXn0X4/Praw3qw1yVp3BErHjPzuIzFdd QNHlU5jQGyog2yDXJn4+pb3ASBBIWoNI+94AWgfg= From: Kent Watsen Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 12.4 \(3445.104.11\)) Message-ID: <010001713808e893-3725b2c2-db71-47b1-8a39-e69f8c264d42-000000@email.amazonses.com> Date: Wed, 1 Apr 2020 23:17:20 +0000 To: "netmod@ietf.org" X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.3445.104.11) X-SES-Outgoing: 2020.04.01-54.240.48.92 Feedback-ID: 1.us-east-1.DKmIRZFhhsBhtmFMNikgwZUWVrODEw9qVcPhqJEI2DA=:AmazonSES Archived-At: Subject: [netmod] Jabber Scribe Needed X-BeenThere: netmod@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: NETMOD WG list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 01 Apr 2020 23:17:23 -0000 All, The NETMOD chairs need a Jabber Scribe for tomorrow's meeting! - We=E2=80=99re asking now so as to not waste precious time during = the session... - The chairs cannot do it because their attention cannot be on = Jabber. The Scribe=E2=80=99s only duty is: 1. If someone posts a question on Jabber for the WG, then direct the participant to type =E2=80=9C+q=E2=80=9D in the WebEx chat = window so that=20 they can ask their question directly there. 2. In the unlikely case that the participant is unable to type = =E2=80=9C+q=E2=80=9D in the WebEx chat window, i.e., because the participant joined the meeting only by phone (and jabber), then the Scribe types =E2=80=9C+q=E2=80=9D themselves into the WebEx chat window and, = when called upon, relays the original participant=E2=80=99s question then. If you are willing to be the Scribe, then: 1. please Reply-All with your confirmation. Reply-all so that everyone can see that the position is filled and=20= also to know who to direct their Jabber questions to. 2. Familiarise yourself with Jabber, if not already, by reviewing https://www.ietf.org/how/meetings/jabber, setting up an XMPP client, and test connecting to the netmod@jabber.ietf.org room before the meeting starts. Thank you! 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s=224i4yxa5dv7c2xz3womw6peuasteono; d=amazonses.com; t=1585793244; h=From:Content-Type:Content-Transfer-Encoding:Mime-Version:Subject:Date:References:To:In-Reply-To:Message-Id:Feedback-ID; bh=/2dw+TY6k9cTa3jWxyXaT4GtaXmDEA61ICeC1tvYgqo=; b=RzrYLqrnxOxx5L75HCm4pzE4G5+RhLA17TzdDIRHnCa/hoYSiwZWN8v0vmWIElAX jOYP2vDpzpcPYW9N8xoB9wHPmnJzHieNB1dHhdMyUhqCG8Mj67vCan4s8S/HBM8qsgW 3egK3Dnvpq+s2BDEHF1cMXcydegaUQ9fih8+YW/Y= From: Kent Watsen Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 12.4 \(3445.104.11\)) Date: Thu, 2 Apr 2020 02:07:24 +0000 References: <010001712d9cef2c-ad1e2b06-7d1c-4362-98e4-a6d1463e1480-000000@email.amazonses.com> <01000171314ecdec-e3d5f74f-4e11-459e-9a18-0d4a20b0d54d-000000@email.amazonses.com> <010001713238efd0-c50867e7-e1f6-40aa-a892-c50a829ebaa5-000000@email.amazonses.com> <0100017137204b39-861805f4-d7d4-4f1c-ba57-c7bba50ccf87-000000@email.amazonses.com> To: "netmod@ietf.org" In-Reply-To: <0100017137204b39-861805f4-d7d4-4f1c-ba57-c7bba50ccf87-000000@email.amazonses.com> Message-ID: <0100017138a49d0b-89da45c9-193d-4151-b430-e978c6e73cf5-000000@email.amazonses.com> X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.3445.104.11) X-SES-Outgoing: 2020.04.02-54.240.48.95 Feedback-ID: 1.us-east-1.DKmIRZFhhsBhtmFMNikgwZUWVrODEw9qVcPhqJEI2DA=:AmazonSES Archived-At: Subject: Re: [netmod] Agenda for Virtual NETMOD Meeting X-BeenThere: netmod@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: NETMOD WG list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 02 Apr 2020 02:07:28 -0000 [Updated agenda, now Qin Wu is presenting both = draft-wwx-netmod-event-yang and draft-tao-netmod-yang-node-tags] Also posted here: = https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/agenda-interim-2020-netmod-01-netmod-01 Agenda for the NETMOD 107 WG Session ------------------------------------ Session: Thursday April 2nd PDT: 04:00-06:00=20 EDT: 07:00-09:00 UTC: 11:00-13:00 CST: 19:00-21:00 WG Chairs: Lou Berger (lberger at labs dot net) Kent Watsen (kent plus ietf at watsen dot net) Joel Jaeggli (joelja at bogus dot com) Available During Session: Jabber: xmpp:netmod@jabber.ietf.org?join Etherpad: https://etherpad.ietf.org/p/notes-ietf-107-netmod ICal: = https://datatracker.ietf.org/meeting/interim-2020-netmod-01/sessions/netmo= d.ics Slides: = https://datatracker.ietf.org/meeting/interim-2020-netmod-01/session/netmod= WebEx Chat: For virtual queue control (type "+q" and "-q" to = enter/leave) WebEx A/V: For session (see below for info) JOIN BY WEBEX: URL: = https://ietf.webex.com/ietf/j.php?MTID=3Dme2e37606188ba99be744a57adbcd5802= Meeting number (access code): 616 779 982 Meeting password: mYtpMnVP524 JOIN BY PHONE 1-650-479-3208 Call-in toll number (US/Canada) Tap here to call (mobile phones only, hosts not supported): tel:%2B1-650-479-3208,,*01*616779982%23%23*01*=20 1-877-668-4493 Call-in toll free number (US/Canada) Tap here to call (mobile phones only, hosts not supported): tel:1-877-668-4493,,*01*616779982%23%23*01* Toll-free calling restrictions https://www.webex.com/pdf/tollfree_restrictions.pdf Available Post Session: Recording: WebEx recording be made available after the meeting. Jabber Logs: https://www.ietf.org/jabber/logs/netmod Etherpad: https://etherpad.ietf.org/p/notes-ietf-107-netmod Slides: = https://datatracker.ietf.org/meeting/interim-2020-netmod-01/session/netmod= Introduction TITLE: Session Intro & WG Status PRESENTER: Chairs Adopted items: TITLE: YANG Versioning Solution Overview PRESENTER: Rob Wilton (as contributor) DRAFT(s) https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-netmod-yang-solutions-00 TITLE: Updated YANG Module Revision Handling PRESENTER: Reshad Rahman DRAFT(s) = https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-netmod-yang-module-versioning-00 TITLE: YANG Semantic Versioning PRESENTER: Joe Clarke DRAFT(s) https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-netmod-yang-semver-00 TITLE: YANG Packages PRESENTER: Bo Wu DRAFT(s) https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-netmod-yang-packages-00 TITLE: YANG Schema Selection PRESENTER: Jason Sterne DRAFT(s) https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-netmod-yang-ver-selection-00 TITLE: YANG Schema Comparison PRESENTER: Reshad Rahman DRAFT(s) = https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-netmod-yang-schema-comparison-00 Not-Yet-Adopted items: TITLE: A YANG Data model for ECA Policy Management PRESENTER: Qin Wu DRAFT(s) https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-wwx-netmod-event-yang-06 TITLE: YANG Data Node Self Explanation Tags PRESENTER: Qin Wu DRAFT(s) https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-tao-netmod-yang-node-tags-01 TITLE: 3GPP's UML to YANG Object Module Mapping PRESENTER: Balazs Lengyel DRAFT(s) None TITLE: CORECONF PRESENTER: Carsten Bormann DRAFT(s) https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-core-yang-cbor-12 https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-core-sid-11 https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-core-comi-09 https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-core-yang-library-01 From nobody Thu Apr 2 02:06:17 2020 Return-Path: X-Original-To: netmod@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: netmod@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 63E7A3A0E09 for ; Thu, 2 Apr 2020 02:06:15 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.899 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.899 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id ZqtEEn5H_3XI for ; Thu, 2 Apr 2020 02:06:13 -0700 (PDT) Received: from huawei.com (lhrrgout.huawei.com [185.176.76.210]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id CEF473A0E07 for ; Thu, 2 Apr 2020 02:06:12 -0700 (PDT) Received: from lhreml702-chm.china.huawei.com (unknown [172.18.7.107]) by Forcepoint Email with ESMTP id A2EE1A54E6AB808CBE34; Thu, 2 Apr 2020 10:06:10 +0100 (IST) Received: from fraeml718-chm.china.huawei.com (10.206.15.14) by lhreml702-chm.china.huawei.com (10.201.108.51) with Microsoft SMTP Server (version=TLS1_2, cipher=TLS_ECDHE_RSA_WITH_AES_128_CBC_SHA256_P256) id 15.1.1713.5; Thu, 2 Apr 2020 10:06:10 +0100 Received: from fraeml715-chm.china.huawei.com (10.206.15.34) by fraeml718-chm.china.huawei.com (10.206.15.14) with Microsoft SMTP Server (version=TLS1_2, cipher=TLS_ECDHE_RSA_WITH_AES_128_GCM_SHA256) id 15.1.1913.5; Thu, 2 Apr 2020 11:06:09 +0200 Received: from fraeml715-chm.china.huawei.com ([10.206.15.34]) by fraeml715-chm.china.huawei.com ([10.206.15.34]) with mapi id 15.01.1913.007; Thu, 2 Apr 2020 11:06:09 +0200 From: Italo Busi To: "Reshad Rahman (rrahman)" , Andy Bierman , "Joe Clarke (jclarke)" CC: NetMod WG Thread-Topic: [netmod] versioning procedures (RFC vs. I-D) Thread-Index: AQHWCFfTB1C1Y87lGEq1iuQDM3OPs6hliklA Date: Thu, 2 Apr 2020 09:06:09 +0000 Message-ID: References: <50052092-0380-44C6-8AE0-1AB3C15C30B4@cisco.com> In-Reply-To: <50052092-0380-44C6-8AE0-1AB3C15C30B4@cisco.com> Accept-Language: it-IT, en-US 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netmod@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 25B8F3A11A9 for ; Thu, 2 Apr 2020 06:12:00 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.9 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.9 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id uxu7F2sweeLv for ; Thu, 2 Apr 2020 06:11:59 -0700 (PDT) Received: from huawei.com (lhrrgout.huawei.com [185.176.76.210]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 9175A3A11A7 for ; Thu, 2 Apr 2020 06:11:58 -0700 (PDT) Received: from lhreml721-chm.china.huawei.com (unknown [172.18.7.106]) by Forcepoint Email with ESMTP id E4EE1D098F3CF420BB8B; Thu, 2 Apr 2020 14:11:56 +0100 (IST) Received: from lhreml721-chm.china.huawei.com (10.201.108.72) by lhreml721-chm.china.huawei.com (10.201.108.72) with Microsoft SMTP Server (version=TLS1_2, cipher=TLS_ECDHE_RSA_WITH_AES_128_GCM_SHA256) id 15.1.1713.5; Thu, 2 Apr 2020 14:11:56 +0100 Received: from DGGEML421-HUB.china.huawei.com (10.1.199.38) by lhreml721-chm.china.huawei.com (10.201.108.72) with Microsoft SMTP Server (version=TLS1_0, cipher=TLS_ECDHE_RSA_WITH_AES_128_CBC_SHA) id 15.1.1713.5 via Frontend Transport; Thu, 2 Apr 2020 14:11:56 +0100 Received: from DGGEML511-MBX.china.huawei.com ([169.254.1.195]) by dggeml421-hub.china.huawei.com ([10.1.199.38]) with mapi id 14.03.0487.000; Thu, 2 Apr 2020 21:11:50 +0800 From: Qin Wu To: Balazs Lengyel , "netmod@ietf.org" Thread-Topic: Presentation on YANG and Netconf usage in 3GPP Thread-Index: AdYI78ERzYw+2SOLSfa4vJ3tXnSwEA== Date: Thu, 2 Apr 2020 13:11:49 +0000 Message-ID: Accept-Language: zh-CN, en-US Content-Language: zh-CN X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-originating-ip: [10.138.33.123] Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="_000_B8F9A780D330094D99AF023C5877DABAAD5C488Cdggeml511mbxchi_" MIME-Version: 1.0 X-CFilter-Loop: Reflected Archived-At: Subject: [netmod] Presentation on YANG and Netconf usage in 3GPP X-BeenThere: netmod@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: NETMOD WG list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 02 Apr 2020 13:12:00 -0000 --_000_B8F9A780D330094D99AF023C5877DABAAD5C488Cdggeml511mbxchi_ Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hi, Balazs: Thanks for the update for what 3GPP is doing related to YANG and NETCONF. I= have a few comments to your slides which I haven't got time to raise in th= e virtual interim meeting: 1. Mapping UML to YANG may is not lossless mapping, you may loss a lo= t of information, for lossless mapping, Why you don't use complex type defi= ned in RFC6095? 2. What do you expect IETF to do for the gap identified in 3GPP? -Qin --_000_B8F9A780D330094D99AF023C5877DABAAD5C488Cdggeml511mbxchi_ Content-Type: text/html; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

Hi, Balazs:

Thanks for the update for what = 3GPP is doing related to YANG and NETCONF. I have a few comments to your sl= ides which I haven’t got time to raise in the virtual interim meeting= :

1= .   &= nbsp;   Mapping UML to YANG may= is not lossless mapping, you may loss a lot of information, for lossless m= apping, Why you don’t use complex type defined in RFC6095?=

2= .   &= nbsp;   What do you expect IETF= to do for the gap identified in 3GPP?

 

-Qin

--_000_B8F9A780D330094D99AF023C5877DABAAD5C488Cdggeml511mbxchi_-- From nobody Thu Apr 2 07:26:20 2020 Return-Path: X-Original-To: netmod@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: netmod@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id A3F633A136C for ; Thu, 2 Apr 2020 07:26:17 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.887 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.887 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, T_SPF_PERMERROR=0.01, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=yumaworks-com.20150623.gappssmtp.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id Uz0rpBmw_fOD for ; Thu, 2 Apr 2020 07:26:15 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail-yb1-xb33.google.com (mail-yb1-xb33.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:4864:20::b33]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 3B6453A0EE5 for ; Thu, 2 Apr 2020 07:26:15 -0700 (PDT) Received: by mail-yb1-xb33.google.com with SMTP id o70so2211024ybg.10 for ; Thu, 02 Apr 2020 07:26:15 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=yumaworks-com.20150623.gappssmtp.com; s=20150623; h=mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date:message-id:subject:to :cc; bh=UxKvX1vkTiAubRF9ZqFRMOHU6MVwTevtcDCNTs1M+TA=; b=LIl553ach7VMfeyhfREQQlgFKzyC1kLz7AfwbdcRsmmgbeAa7vBHTjWyai5frb1TH7 cEXOcBcV7Y6F3eAJTCOdDopYVmI3/0fVq1wgzdtNz/NUeA0s0cSMyC6XTzppE6dr6iWY SQIDHVf3qgC0OevCzs9crSIMRkK7t8PwJiHTnQjVE/pOrFb4KG9YfcXvkpog4gz1i5Zr O/lrhmrYAjCH/TS6x2vklP0lgZ3jcmEBDXSswvB24qqICTI2XvJtd/XfZ5ZbfIGzQPlW jkbUk4/MeeKKVu+cmdlLxr1b1inFBvPWJi71sgImo3oKwwd+PhQluQ3zrVALPGEKtLDs TvJg== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date :message-id:subject:to:cc; bh=UxKvX1vkTiAubRF9ZqFRMOHU6MVwTevtcDCNTs1M+TA=; b=gnli6bb8mCWZiIJhbeUBbrOdR0meZZF9KpnzWUJj1UaHRqIq6DvO+EIrrnEBNar0GH tXcWp941Oar4Aenq4r1vs9KpP2NsPOUAE0rhqZuzEwfycCMqpiTs06oFUImoTE4zKns8 ZWvIpG6KKnKY5b5ndbwqFfsgkzUaOgd0SxjPybF0DImC7gLLgVYpqca4M2Swhv9INMjJ CNYgxFoG2fdaXoGotRqzsL5+Zl2UW3cw10+X0STzeYKSymB3Kdyb1sk6tcNk+ylL/ziw R8urEOWmgsPOkIcsuMM0W1OsEiztC/DwF8f4BgUwapCVQcm1FSd9R0/Bc2/eAXFuDkY/ QH8g== X-Gm-Message-State: AGi0PubCWYxFgR7A9RSKwr+/52nwHfkkM5H6m0H3RaoS0QuAhqY/X8KN IftHTWUL00GpmjiaRipjwi/NflYi22S8B4FwYfXDqw== X-Google-Smtp-Source: APiQypLjxQpGFIMln6qegGxa+52E/HAMqJKUQ/1ri4rWFnzsPplzTb/tAG3bxJE3nD5wDTTqxv+aaXAIObNenl3ADDg= X-Received: by 2002:a5b:c4a:: with SMTP id d10mr6037686ybr.59.1585837573198; Thu, 02 Apr 2020 07:26:13 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 References: <50052092-0380-44C6-8AE0-1AB3C15C30B4@cisco.com> <1DE96CAC-43BC-4638-AE96-2E770CA7CE20@cisco.com> In-Reply-To: <1DE96CAC-43BC-4638-AE96-2E770CA7CE20@cisco.com> From: Andy Bierman Date: Thu, 2 Apr 2020 07:26:02 -0700 Message-ID: To: "Reshad Rahman (rrahman)" Cc: Italo Busi , "Joe Clarke (jclarke)" , NetMod WG Content-Type: multipart/related; boundary="00000000000039915505a24f9581" Archived-At: Subject: Re: [netmod] versioning procedures (RFC vs. I-D) X-BeenThere: netmod@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: NETMOD WG list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 02 Apr 2020 14:26:18 -0000 --00000000000039915505a24f9581 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="00000000000039915405a24f9580" --00000000000039915405a24f9580 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable On Thu, Apr 2, 2020 at 4:11 AM Reshad Rahman (rrahman) wrote: > Hi, > > > > *From: *Italo Busi > *Date: *Thursday, April 2, 2020 at 5:06 AM > *To: *"Reshad Rahman (rrahman)" , 'Andy Bierman' < > andy@yumaworks.com>, "Joe Clarke (jclarke)" > *Cc: *NetMod WG > *Subject: *RE: [netmod] versioning procedures (RFC vs. I-D) > > > > Reshad, > > > > My doubt and, if I understand well also Andy=E2=80=99s question, is about= the fact > that before publishing an RFC-bis with e.g., 1.1.0, we will have a set of > Internet-Drafts updating the RFC with 1.0.0 > > > > What versions should be used in the YANG modules published in these > Internet-Drafts? > > > > Think about the following scenario: -00 version provide BC changes to the > RFC module but the -01 version provide NBC changes to what has been added > in the -00 module (thus the -01 version is BC with the RFC 1.0.0 module b= ut > NBC with the -00 version module) > > So bis 00 would be 1.1.0 (BC with RFC module). > > Bis 01 should be updated according to its relationship to the RFC module > (bis 00 doesn=E2=80=99t matter anymore), when RFC bis is published it won= =E2=80=99t have > the full history. > > > > Hope I correctly understood your question. > > > This semver plan is not very intuitive and not sure it works. draft-00 container the-container; version 0.1.0 OK draft-01: container my-container; version 0.2.0; rules violated; NBC should force 1.0.0 draft-02: container my-container { version 0.3.0; should be 1.1.0 leaf my-leaf { type int32; } } RFC-1: container my-container { version 1.0.0; should be 2.0.0 according to NBC rules leaf my-leaf { type uint32; } } bis-draft-00: container my-container { version 1.1.0; OK leaf my-leaf { type uint32; } leaf another-leaf { type int32; } } bis-draft-01: container my-container { diff against RFC-1: version 1.1.0 but already used; use 1.2.0? leaf my-leaf { type uint32; } leaf another-leaf { type uint32; } } bis-draft-02: container example-my-container { diff against RFC-1: version 2.0.0 but use 1.3.0 instead? leaf my-leaf { type uint32; } leaf another-leaf { type uint32; } } [repeat NBC step bis-draft-02 10 times.... now up to version 12.0.0 or is it 1.13.0? something else? RFC-2: publish draft-12 as RFC-2: now change the label from 1.13.0 to 2.0.0? or leave it 12.0.0? IMO it is very confusing that the stated rules are so inconsistent and are violated so many ways. There should be no revision-label at all in Internet Drafts because these documents are unpublished. They should only be added to the RFC version. The semver procedures are not intended to work for unpublished modules that are only meant for review, not for implementation. The revision-label provides only noise in Internet Drafts. Regards, > > Reshad. > > > > Thanks, Italo > Andy > > > *Italo Busi* > > Principal Optical Transport Network Research Engineer > > Huawei Technologies Co., Ltd. > > Tel : +39 345 4721946 > > Email : italo.busi@huawei.com > > > > This e-mail and its attachments contain confidential information from > HUAWEI, which is intended only for the person or entity whose address is > listed above. Any use of the information contained herein in any way > (including, but not limited to, total or partial disclosure, reproduction= , > or dissemination) by persons other than the intended recipient(s) is > prohibited. If you receive this e-mail in error, please notify the sender > by phone or email immediately and delete it! > > > > *From:* Reshad Rahman (rrahman) [mailto:rrahman@cisco.com] > *Sent:* mercoled=C3=AC 1 aprile 2020 20:13 > *To:* Andy Bierman ; Joe Clarke (jclarke) < > jclarke@cisco.com> > *Cc:* NetMod WG > *Subject:* Re: [netmod] versioning procedures (RFC vs. I-D) > > > > > > *From: *netmod on behalf of 'Andy Bierman' < > andy@yumaworks.com> > *Date: *Wednesday, April 1, 2020 at 2:07 PM > *To: *"Joe Clarke (jclarke)" > *Cc: *NetMod WG > *Subject: *Re: [netmod] versioning procedures (RFC vs. I-D) > > > > > > > > On Wed, Apr 1, 2020 at 10:39 AM Joe Clarke (jclarke) > wrote: > > > > > On Apr 1, 2020, at 13:28, Andy Bierman wrote: > > > > Hi, > > > > I just want to confirm that all the proposed documentation procedures > > using new extensions are limited in scope to published modules only, > > and not applied to unpublished modules (terms defined in RFC 8407). > > > > IMO it would be harmful to module usability to assign revision-labels o= r > > include revision-related extensions in unpublished modules (e.g., > Internet Drafts). > > Consider how cluttered and confusing the client-server modules would be > > if the 50+ NBC changes and versions were tracked through all the I-Ds. > > > > For IETF modules, the first usage of the revision-label > > should be in the initial RFC, and be set to 1.0.0. > > > > If the RFC is ever republished then one can expect to find an updated > > revision-label and possibly extensions tracking NBC changes. > > The semver scheme allocates a major version of 0 for pre-releases where > the BC/NBC rules do not apply. I agree that a first official RFC release > should be 1.0.0 (from a semver revision-label standpoint). From a design > team standpoint, I know we mentioned the 0 versioning early on, but I don= =E2=80=99t > think we spent much time talking about modules under development overall. > > > > > > IMO it is confusing to ignore the semver rules for the special 0.x.y > releases. > > There are many NBC changes made at this point which are treated as minor > or patch changes. > > The procedure is really broken once you consider a WG developing any > RFC-bis module. > > Now the major version is not 0 and all updates look like real releases. > > I don=E2=80=99t think that=E2=80=99s needed. Initial module in RFC h= as 1.0.0, module > in (released) RFC-bis can go to 1.0.1, 1.1.0 or 2.0.0 depending on the > change. > > > > Regards, > > Reshad. > > > > My take would align to yours that we wouldn=E2=80=99t clutter a module wi= th > development NBC tracking. > > Joe > > > > Andy > > > --00000000000039915405a24f9580 Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable


=
On Thu, Apr 2, 2020 at 4:11 AM Reshad= Rahman (rrahman) <rrahman@cisco.co= m> wrote:

Hi,

=C2=A0

From: = Italo Busi <Italo.Busi@huawei.com<= /a>>
Date: Thursday, April 2, 2020 at 5:06 AM
To: "Reshad Rahman (rrahman)" <rrahman@cisco.com>, 'Andy Bierman= ' <andy@yuma= works.com>, "Joe Clarke (jclarke)" <jclarke@cisco.com>
Cc: NetMod WG <netmod@ietf.org>
Subject: RE: [netmod] versioning procedures (RFC vs. I-D)<= /u>

=C2=A0

Reshad,

=C2=A0

My doubt and, if I understand well also Andy=E2=80= =99s question, is about the fact that before publishing an RFC-bis with e.g= ., 1.1.0, we will have a set of Internet-Drafts updating the RFC with 1.0.0=

=C2=A0

What versions should be used in the YANG modules pub= lished in these Internet-Drafts?

=C2=A0

Think about the following scenario: -00 version prov= ide BC changes to the RFC module but the -01 version provide NBC changes to= what has been added in the -00 module (thus the -01 version is BC with the= RFC 1.0.0 module but NBC with the -00 version module)

<RR> So bis 00 would be 1.1.0 (BC with RFC mod= ule).

Bis 01 should be updated according to its relationsh= ip to the RFC module (bis 00 doesn=E2=80=99t matter anymore), when RFC bis = is published it won=E2=80=99t have the full history.

=C2=A0

Hope I correctly understood your question.=

=C2=A0


<= /div>
This semver plan is not very intuitive and not sure it works.

draft-00

=C2=A0 =C2=A0contai= ner the-container;=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0version 0= .1.0=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 OK
=C2=A0
draft-01:
= =C2=A0 =C2=A0container my-container;=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2= =A0 =C2=A0version 0.2.0;=C2=A0 =C2=A0rules violated; NBC should force 1.0.0=

draft-02:

=C2=A0 =C2=A0 = container my-container {=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0version 0.= 3.0; should be 1.1.0=C2=A0
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 leaf my-le= af { type int32; }
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 }=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2= =A0 =C2=A0=C2=A0

RFC-1:

<= div>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 container my-container {=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2= =A0 =C2=A0version 1.0.0;=C2=A0 should be 2.0.0 according to NBC rules
=
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 leaf my-leaf { type uint32; }
= =C2=A0 =C2=A0 }=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0=C2=A0
<= div>
bis-draft-00:

=C2=A0 =C2= =A0container my-container {=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0version= 1.1.0;=C2=A0OK
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 leaf my-leaf { type u= int32; }
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 leaf another-leaf { type int= 32; }
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 }=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0=C2= =A0

bis-draft-01:

<= div>
=C2=A0 container my-container {=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 = =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 diff against RFC-1:=C2=A0 version 1.1.0 but alr= eady used; use 1.2.0?
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 leaf my-leaf { = type uint32; }
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 leaf another-leaf { ty= pe uint32; }
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 }=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 = =C2=A0=C2=A0

bis-draft= -02:

=C2=A0 container example-my-contain= er {=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 diff aga= inst RFC-1:=C2=A0 version 2.0.0 but use 1.3.0 instead?
=C2=A0 =C2= =A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 leaf my-leaf { type uint32; }
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2= =A0 =C2=A0 leaf another-leaf { type uint32; }
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 }=C2= =A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0=C2=A0

[repeat NBC step bis-draft-02 10 times.... now up to version 12.0.0 or is = it 1.13.0? something else?

RFC-2:=C2=A0 =C2=A0publ= ish draft-12 as RFC-2: now change the label from 1.13.0 to 2.0.0? or leave = it 12.0.0?

IMO it is very confusing that the state= d rules are so inconsistent and are=C2=A0violated so many ways.
T= here should be no revision-label at all in Internet Drafts because these do= cuments are=C2=A0unpublished.
They should only be added to the RF= C version.

The semver procedures are not intended = to work for unpublished modules that are only
meant for review, n= ot for implementation. The=C2=A0revision-label provides only noise in Inter= net Drafts.

=C2=A0=C2=A0

=

Regards,

Reshad.

=C2=A0

Thanks, Italo


<= /div>

Andy
=C2=A0

=C2=A0

=C2=A0

From: Reshad Rahman (rrahman) [mailto:rrahman@cisco.com]
Sent: mercoled=C3=AC 1 aprile 2020 20:13
To: Andy Bierman <andy@yumaworks.com>; Joe Clarke (jclarke) <jclarke@cisco.com>
Cc: NetMod WG <netmod@ietf.org>
Subject: Re: [netmod] versioning procedures (RFC vs. I-D)<= /u>

=C2=A0

=C2=A0

From: = netmod <netmod-bounces@ietf.org<= /a>> on behalf of 'Andy Bierman' <andy@yumaworks.com>
Date: Wednesday, April 1, 2020 at 2:07 PM
To: "Joe Clarke (jclarke)" <jclarke@cisco.com>
Cc: NetMod WG <netmod@ietf.org>
Subject: Re: [netmod] versioning procedures (RFC vs. I-D)<= /u>

=C2=A0

=C2=A0

=C2=A0

On Wed, Apr 1, 2020 at 10:39 AM Joe Clarke (jclarke)= <jclarke@cisco.c= om> wrote:



> On Apr 1, 2020, at 13:28, Andy Bierman <andy@yumaworks.com> wrote:
>
> Hi,
>
> I just want to confirm that all the proposed documentation procedures<= br> > using new extensions are limited in scope to published modules only, > and not applied to unpublished modules (terms defined in RFC 8407). >
> IMO it would be harmful to module usability to assign revision-labels = or
> include revision-related extensions in unpublished modules (e.g., Inte= rnet Drafts).
> Consider how cluttered and confusing the client-server modules would b= e
> if the 50+ NBC changes and versions were tracked through all the I-Ds.=
>
> For IETF modules, the first usage of the revision-label
> should be in the initial RFC, and be set to 1.0.0.
>
> If the RFC is ever republished then one can expect to find an updated<= br> > revision-label and possibly extensions tracking NBC changes.

The semver scheme allocates a major version of 0 for pre-releases where the= BC/NBC rules do not apply.=C2=A0 I agree that a first official RFC release= should be 1.0.0 (from a semver revision-label standpoint).=C2=A0 From a de= sign team standpoint, I know we mentioned the 0 versioning early on, but I don=E2=80=99t think we spent much time ta= lking about modules under development overall.

=C2=A0

=C2=A0

IMO it is confusing to ignore the semver rules for t= he special 0.x.y releases.

There are many NBC changes made at this point which = are treated as minor or patch changes.

The procedure is really broken once you consider a W= G developing any RFC-bis module.

Now the major version is not 0 and all updates look = like real releases.

<RR> I don=E2=80=99t think that=E2=80=99s need= ed. Initial module in RFC has 1.0.0, module in (released) RFC-bis can go to= 1.0.1, 1.1.0 or 2.0.0 depending on the change.

=C2=A0

Regards,

Reshad.

=C2=A0

My take would align to yours that we wouldn=E2=80=99= t clutter a module with development NBC tracking.

Joe

=C2=A0

Andy

=C2=A0

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bh=ndj95eu23E2WviYKCLTjOT0mIj6oEfLMs3NcRjY5ZV0=; b=XTxUMjcoAUUqElyXGzaOkusL2zukrTxkyvvDco9VKF3vkaBtKN/joXupsaDRXwIQrz ilNdRtOFkBImB6OQkdg+Pn4Q6ar55d3dsnscmsFu5BXqR6uh7fRc3zRjOlMMPAll7XqG SbXJRwZLo4pJ1abmdXY0wboG1nmwqgqf5kDwdJ8wANIQ2Gv4ldNUJFWgTRU7UwDUyogx qHaR+ZTAdSL+PDBm50ahnz5dzLNriYxqrz5pUct8zE9JWIVkn1efmHpsdHACq7kLF3y1 S3DrVFFtKZRHzbvqRqSLpaDBEYsnUZ0wTrESBJYRrisl3X9bCvfAkTUG/MqYNTVc/+hc nLlg== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date :message-id:subject:to:cc; bh=ndj95eu23E2WviYKCLTjOT0mIj6oEfLMs3NcRjY5ZV0=; b=E4H+tdK5/xMTNUvF92eDfoiF6grD1EI1XRlqILZQouanJs9BCHU+kJV0kXBbaG/BPv fbiogBl/6js6UwNhPk8KT2gFpVR5zRCPQbIP263I0LksSBAxpCulOErwszgGXv2V3d7S sisWV4y07JgQTf5+kbaxLi8L5UxLDmVRdgyp6CjxJBpzGWmnFFqvlpaD16BK7gx2Xvzd 7Ev8Vich9YGF5UTVOrssi1vOEzgsLzpahXkhmU+AkTmhvXfGCPhhVzFhQ1SyRUlhdmn3 cPGeiFfFcu5qRRRg9F2J4WN4lS+ysYX2md4k+gH4WMdYmSSpmaqTAEz0vbjL0FdJ4yDg MIzQ== X-Gm-Message-State: AGi0PuYnXk1nv6IoANfksFV9Cj5fYu+9fUIO+1WrQ2aU+SbjCAxiTDpt SaNf0Jh+yZ8kwCAcSSMF2pfhoT6P2RcezPc+T/4srBts X-Google-Smtp-Source: APiQypKi/08ah1jR65bQBmEtUuOfhUZ/mzryc84rootGQhWBuqPx9TsUvYaQ9lRhVU83gaepYhdGBfa+JdZsMsnVUe8= X-Received: by 2002:a25:7c2:: with SMTP id 185mr6659934ybh.44.1585841290555; Thu, 02 Apr 2020 08:28:10 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 References: <50052092-0380-44C6-8AE0-1AB3C15C30B4@cisco.com> <1DE96CAC-43BC-4638-AE96-2E770CA7CE20@cisco.com> In-Reply-To: From: Andy Bierman Date: Thu, 2 Apr 2020 08:27:59 -0700 Message-ID: To: "Reshad Rahman (rrahman)" Cc: Italo Busi , "Joe Clarke (jclarke)" , NetMod WG Content-Type: multipart/related; boundary="000000000000cb6df105a250727b" Archived-At: Subject: Re: [netmod] versioning procedures (RFC vs. I-D) X-BeenThere: netmod@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: NETMOD WG list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 02 Apr 2020 15:28:29 -0000 --000000000000cb6df105a250727b Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="000000000000cb6def05a250727a" --000000000000cb6def05a250727a Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable On Thu, Apr 2, 2020 at 7:46 AM Reshad Rahman (rrahman) wrote: > > > > > *From: *'Andy Bierman' > *Date: *Thursday, April 2, 2020 at 10:26 AM > *To: *"Reshad Rahman (rrahman)" > *Cc: *Italo Busi , "Joe Clarke (jclarke)" < > jclarke@cisco.com>, NetMod WG > *Subject: *Re: [netmod] versioning procedures (RFC vs. I-D) > > > > > > > > On Thu, Apr 2, 2020 at 4:11 AM Reshad Rahman (rrahman) > wrote: > > Hi, > > > > *From: *Italo Busi > *Date: *Thursday, April 2, 2020 at 5:06 AM > *To: *"Reshad Rahman (rrahman)" , 'Andy Bierman' < > andy@yumaworks.com>, "Joe Clarke (jclarke)" > *Cc: *NetMod WG > *Subject: *RE: [netmod] versioning procedures (RFC vs. I-D) > > > > Reshad, > > > > My doubt and, if I understand well also Andy=E2=80=99s question, is about= the fact > that before publishing an RFC-bis with e.g., 1.1.0, we will have a set of > Internet-Drafts updating the RFC with 1.0.0 > > > > What versions should be used in the YANG modules published in these > Internet-Drafts? > > > > Think about the following scenario: -00 version provide BC changes to the > RFC module but the -01 version provide NBC changes to what has been added > in the -00 module (thus the -01 version is BC with the RFC 1.0.0 module b= ut > NBC with the -00 version module) > > So bis 00 would be 1.1.0 (BC with RFC module). > > Bis 01 should be updated according to its relationship to the RFC module > (bis 00 doesn=E2=80=99t matter anymore), when RFC bis is published it won= =E2=80=99t have > the full history. > > > > Hope I correctly understood your question. > > > > > > This semver plan is not very intuitive and not sure it works. > > > > draft-00 > > > > container the-container; version 0.1.0 OK > > > > draft-01: > > container my-container; version 0.2.0; rules violated; > NBC should force 1.0.0 > > > > draft-02: > > > > container my-container { version 0.3.0; should be 1.1.0 > > leaf my-leaf { type int32; } > > } > > > > RFC-1: > > > > container my-container { version 1.0.0; should be 2.0.0 > according to NBC rules > > leaf my-leaf { type uint32; } > > } > > > > bis-draft-00: > > > > container my-container { version 1.1.0; OK > > leaf my-leaf { type uint32; } > > leaf another-leaf { type int32; } > > } > > > > bis-draft-01: > > > > container my-container { diff against RFC-1: version > 1.1.0 but already used; use 1.2.0? > > leaf my-leaf { type uint32; } > > leaf another-leaf { type uint32; } > > } > > > > bis-draft-02: > > > > container example-my-container { diff against RFC-1: > version 2.0.0 but use 1.3.0 instead? > > leaf my-leaf { type uint32; } > > leaf another-leaf { type uint32; } > > } > > > > [repeat NBC step bis-draft-02 10 times.... now up to version 12.0.0 or is > it 1.13.0? something else? > > > > RFC-2: publish draft-12 as RFC-2: now change the label from 1.13.0 to > 2.0.0? or leave it 12.0.0? > > > > IMO it is very confusing that the stated rules are so inconsistent and > are violated so many ways. > > There should be no revision-label at all in Internet Drafts because these > documents are unpublished. > > They should only be added to the RFC version. > > > > The semver procedures are not intended to work for unpublished modules > that are only > > meant for review, not for implementation. The revision-label provides onl= y > noise in Internet Drafts. > > I think it=E2=80=99s useful to have a revision label in a draft bec= ause it > indicates nature of changes (BC v/s NBC) compared to the previous publish= ed > revision (RFC). > > But you are absolutely right that setting the version based on changes > with the previous draft revision is useless and confusing. > > IMO the part that is confusing is that the rules for picking the next revision-label are violated for the draft versions (including the special case 0.x.y versions). NBC changes appear to be minor changes. The SEM in SEMVER is not useful if the identifier does actually reflect the semantics of the label. Comparing against the last published version also seems to violate the rules. Either the same label (e.g. 2.0.0 is used over and over, or new numbers are used based on the last draft version (2.0.0, then 2.1.0or maybe 3.0.0 - not sure). Using the same label for different versions of a module would be really confusing. It is confusing to use incremental numbers to sometimes mean "compare against last label" and other times mean "compare against some unspecified label in the past". There is no way to distinguish a label for a published module and an unpublished module. > > Regards, > > Reshad. > > > > > Andy > Regards, > > Reshad. > > > > Thanks, Italo > > > > > > Andy > > > > > > *Italo Busi* > > Principal Optical Transport Network Research Engineer > > Huawei Technologies Co., Ltd. > > Tel : +39 345 4721946 > > Email : italo.busi@huawei.com > > > > This e-mail and its attachments contain confidential information from > HUAWEI, which is intended only for the person or entity whose address is > listed above. Any use of the information contained herein in any way > (including, but not limited to, total or partial disclosure, reproduction= , > or dissemination) by persons other than the intended recipient(s) is > prohibited. If you receive this e-mail in error, please notify the sender > by phone or email immediately and delete it! > > > > *From:* Reshad Rahman (rrahman) [mailto:rrahman@cisco.com] > *Sent:* mercoled=C3=AC 1 aprile 2020 20:13 > *To:* Andy Bierman ; Joe Clarke (jclarke) < > jclarke@cisco.com> > *Cc:* NetMod WG > *Subject:* Re: [netmod] versioning procedures (RFC vs. I-D) > > > > > > *From: *netmod on behalf of 'Andy Bierman' < > andy@yumaworks.com> > *Date: *Wednesday, April 1, 2020 at 2:07 PM > *To: *"Joe Clarke (jclarke)" > *Cc: *NetMod WG > *Subject: *Re: [netmod] versioning procedures (RFC vs. I-D) > > > > > > > > On Wed, Apr 1, 2020 at 10:39 AM Joe Clarke (jclarke) > wrote: > > > > > On Apr 1, 2020, at 13:28, Andy Bierman wrote: > > > > Hi, > > > > I just want to confirm that all the proposed documentation procedures > > using new extensions are limited in scope to published modules only, > > and not applied to unpublished modules (terms defined in RFC 8407). > > > > IMO it would be harmful to module usability to assign revision-labels o= r > > include revision-related extensions in unpublished modules (e.g., > Internet Drafts). > > Consider how cluttered and confusing the client-server modules would be > > if the 50+ NBC changes and versions were tracked through all the I-Ds. > > > > For IETF modules, the first usage of the revision-label > > should be in the initial RFC, and be set to 1.0.0. > > > > If the RFC is ever republished then one can expect to find an updated > > revision-label and possibly extensions tracking NBC changes. > > The semver scheme allocates a major version of 0 for pre-releases where > the BC/NBC rules do not apply. I agree that a first official RFC release > should be 1.0.0 (from a semver revision-label standpoint). From a design > team standpoint, I know we mentioned the 0 versioning early on, but I don= =E2=80=99t > think we spent much time talking about modules under development overall. > > > > > > IMO it is confusing to ignore the semver rules for the special 0.x.y > releases. > > There are many NBC changes made at this point which are treated as minor > or patch changes. > > The procedure is really broken once you consider a WG developing any > RFC-bis module. > > Now the major version is not 0 and all updates look like real releases. > > I don=E2=80=99t think that=E2=80=99s needed. Initial module in RFC h= as 1.0.0, module > in (released) RFC-bis can go to 1.0.1, 1.1.0 or 2.0.0 depending on the > change. > > > > Regards, > > Reshad. > > > > My take would align to yours that we wouldn=E2=80=99t clutter a module wi= th > development NBC tracking. > > Joe > > > > Andy > > > > --000000000000cb6def05a250727a Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable


=
On Thu, Apr 2, 2020 at 7:46 AM Reshad= Rahman (rrahman) <rrahman@cisco.co= m> wrote:

=C2=A0

=C2=A0

From: = 'Andy Bierman'= ; <andy@yumawork= s.com>
Date: Thursday, April 2, 2020 at 10:26 AM
To: "Reshad Rahman (rrahman)" <rrahman@cisco.com>
Cc: Italo Busi <Italo.Busi@huawei.com>, "Joe Clarke (jclarke)"= <jclarke@cisco.c= om>, NetMod WG <netmod@ietf.org>
Subject: Re: [netmod] versioning procedures (RFC vs. I-D)<= /u>

=C2=A0

=C2=A0

=C2=A0

On Thu, Apr 2, 2020 at 4:11 AM Reshad Rahman (rrahma= n) <rrahman@cisco= .com> wrote:

Hi,

=C2=A0

From: Italo Busi <Italo.Busi@huawei.com<= /a>>
Date: Thursday, April 2, 2020 at 5:06 AM
To: "Reshad Rahman (rrahman)" <rrahman@cisco.com>, 'Andy Bierman= ' <andy@yuma= works.com>, "Joe Clarke (jclarke)" <jclarke@cisco.com>
Cc: NetMod WG <netmod@ietf.org>
Subject: RE: [netmod] versioning procedures (RFC vs. I-D)<= /u>

=C2=A0

Reshad,

=C2=A0

My doubt and, if I understand well also Andy=E2=80= =99s question, is about the fact that before publishing an RFC-bis with e.g= ., 1.1.0, we will have a set of Internet-Drafts updating the RFC with 1.0.0

=C2=A0

What versions should be used in the YANG modules pub= lished in these Internet-Drafts?

=C2=A0

Think about the following scenario: -00 version prov= ide BC changes to the RFC module but the -01 version provide NBC changes to= what has been added in the -00 module (thus the -01 version is BC with the RFC 1.0.0 module but NBC with the -00 version modul= e)

<RR> So bis 00 would be 1.1.0 (BC with RFC mod= ule).

Bis 01 should be updated according to its relationsh= ip to the RFC module (bis 00 doesn=E2=80=99t matter anymore), when RFC bis = is published it won=E2=80=99t have the full history.

=C2=A0

Hope I correctly understood your question.=

=C2=A0

=C2=A0

This semver plan is not very intuitive and not sure = it works.

=C2=A0

draft-00

=C2=A0

=C2=A0 =C2=A0container the-container;=C2=A0 =C2=A0 = =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0version 0.1.0=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 OK

=C2=A0

draft-01:

=C2=A0 =C2=A0container my-container;=C2=A0 =C2=A0 = =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0version 0.2.0;=C2=A0 =C2=A0rules violated= ; NBC should force 1.0.0

=C2=A0

draft-02:

=C2=A0

=C2=A0 =C2=A0 container my-container {=C2=A0 =C2=A0 = =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0version 0.3.0; should be 1.1.0=C2=A0

=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 leaf my-leaf { type int3= 2; }

=C2=A0 =C2=A0 }=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 = =C2=A0=C2=A0

=C2=A0

RFC-1:

=C2=A0

=C2=A0 =C2=A0 container my-container {=C2=A0 =C2=A0 = =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0version 1.0.0;=C2=A0 should be 2.0.0 according t= o NBC rules

=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 leaf my-leaf { type uint= 32; }

=C2=A0 =C2=A0 }=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 = =C2=A0=C2=A0

=C2=A0

bis-draft-00:

=C2=A0

=C2=A0 =C2=A0container my-container {=C2=A0 =C2=A0 = =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0version 1.1.0;=C2=A0OK

=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 leaf my-leaf { type uint= 32; }

=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 leaf another-leaf { type= int32; }

=C2=A0 =C2=A0 }=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 = =C2=A0=C2=A0

=C2=A0

bis-draft-01:

=C2=A0

=C2=A0 container my-container {=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 = =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 diff against RFC-1:=C2=A0 version= 1.1.0 but already used; use 1.2.0?

=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 leaf my-leaf { type uint= 32; }

=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 leaf another-leaf { type= uint32; }

=C2=A0 =C2=A0 }=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 = =C2=A0=C2=A0

=C2=A0

bis-draft-02:

=C2=A0

=C2=A0 container example-my-container {=C2=A0 =C2=A0= =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 diff against RFC-1:=C2=A0= version 2.0.0 but use 1.3.0 instead?

=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 leaf my-leaf { type uint= 32; }

=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 leaf another-leaf { type= uint32; }

=C2=A0 =C2=A0 }=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 = =C2=A0=C2=A0

=C2=A0

[repeat NBC step bis-draft-02 10 times.... now up to= version 12.0.0 or is it 1.13.0? something else?

=C2=A0

RFC-2:=C2=A0 =C2=A0publish draft-12 as RFC-2: now ch= ange the label from 1.13.0 to 2.0.0? or leave it 12.0.0?

=C2=A0

IMO it is very confusing that the stated rules are s= o inconsistent and are=C2=A0violated so many ways.

There should be no revision-label at all in Internet= Drafts because these documents are=C2=A0unpublished.

They should only be added to the RFC version.=

=C2=A0

The semver procedures are not intended to work for u= npublished modules that are only

meant for review, not for implementation. The=C2=A0r= evision-label provides only noise in Internet Drafts.

<RR2> I think it=E2=80=99s useful to have a re= vision label in a draft because it indicates nature of changes (BC v/s NBC)= compared to the previous published revision (RFC).

But you are absolutely right that setting the versio= n based on changes with the previous draft revision is useless and confusin= g.



IMO the part that is confu= sing is that the rules for picking the next revision-label
are vi= olated for the draft versions (including the special case 0.x.y versions).<= /div>
NBC changes appear to be minor changes.=C2=A0 The SEM in SEMVER i= s not useful
if the identifier does actually reflect the semantic= s of the label.

Comparing against the last publish= ed version also seems to violate the rules.
Either the same label= (e.g. 2.0.0 is used over and over, or new numbers are used
based= on the last draft version (2.0.0, then 2.1.0or maybe 3.0.0 - not sure).=C2= =A0
Using the same label for different versions of a module would= be really confusing.
It is confusing to use incremental numbers = to sometimes mean "compare against last label"
and othe= r times mean "compare against some unspecified label in the past"= .
There is no way to distinguish a label for a published module a= nd an unpublished module.


=C2=A0

Regards,

Reshad.

=C2=A0=C2=A0

=C2=A0


Andy
=C2=A0

Regards,

Reshad.

=C2=A0

Thanks, Italo

=C2=A0

=C2=A0

Andy

=C2=A0

=C2=A0

=C2=A0

From: Reshad Rahman (rrahman) [mailto:rrahman@cisco.com]
Sent: mercoled=C3=AC 1 aprile 2020 20:13
To: Andy Bierman <andy@yumaworks.com>; Joe Clarke (jclarke) <jclarke@cisco.com>
Cc: NetMod WG <netmod@ietf.org>
Subject: Re: [netmod] versioning procedures (RFC vs. I-D)<= /u>

=C2=A0

=C2=A0

From: netmod <netmod-bounces@ietf.org<= /a>> on behalf of 'Andy Bierman' <andy@yumaworks.com>
Date: Wednesday, April 1, 2020 at 2:07 PM
To: "Joe Clarke (jclarke)" <jclarke@cisco.com>
Cc: NetMod WG <netmod@ietf.org>
Subject: Re: [netmod] versioning procedures (RFC vs. I-D)<= /u>

=C2=A0

=C2=A0

=C2=A0

On Wed, Apr 1, 2020 at 10:39 AM Joe Clarke (jclarke)= <jclarke@cisco.c= om> wrote:



> On Apr 1, 2020, at 13:28, Andy Bierman <andy@yumaworks.com> wrote:
>
> Hi,
>
> I just want to confirm that all the proposed documentation procedures<= br> > using new extensions are limited in scope to published modules only, > and not applied to unpublished modules (terms defined in RFC 8407). >
> IMO it would be harmful to module usability to assign revision-labels = or
> include revision-related extensions in unpublished modules (e.g., Inte= rnet Drafts).
> Consider how cluttered and confusing the client-server modules would b= e
> if the 50+ NBC changes and versions were tracked through all the I-Ds.=
>
> For IETF modules, the first usage of the revision-label
> should be in the initial RFC, and be set to 1.0.0.
>
> If the RFC is ever republished then one can expect to find an updated<= br> > revision-label and possibly extensions tracking NBC changes.

The semver scheme allocates a major version of 0 for pre-releases where the= BC/NBC rules do not apply.=C2=A0 I agree that a first official RFC release= should be 1.0.0 (from a semver revision-label standpoint).=C2=A0 From a de= sign team standpoint, I know we mentioned the 0 versioning early on, but I don=E2=80=99t think we spent much time ta= lking about modules under development overall.

=C2=A0

=C2=A0

IMO it is confusing to ignore the semver rules for t= he special 0.x.y releases.

There are many NBC changes made at this point which = are treated as minor or patch changes.

The procedure is really broken once you consider a W= G developing any RFC-bis module.

Now the major version is not 0 and all updates look = like real releases.

<RR> I don=E2=80=99t think that=E2=80=99s need= ed. Initial module in RFC has 1.0.0, module in (released) RFC-bis can go to= 1.0.1, 1.1.0 or 2.0.0 depending on the change.

=C2=A0

Regards,

Reshad.

=C2=A0

My take would align to yours that we wouldn=E2=80=99= t clutter a module with development NBC tracking.

Joe

=C2=A0

Andy

=C2=A0

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<50052092-0380-44C6-8AE0-1AB3C15C30B4@cisco.com> <1DE96CAC-43BC-4638-AE96-2E770CA7CE20@cisco.com> In-Reply-To: Accept-Language: it-IT, en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: yes X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-originating-ip: [10.47.26.136] Content-Type: multipart/related; boundary="_005_a69215e713ac4c8dbe16948316a858b6huaweicom_"; type="multipart/alternative" MIME-Version: 1.0 X-CFilter-Loop: Reflected Archived-At: Subject: Re: [netmod] versioning procedures (RFC vs. I-D) X-BeenThere: netmod@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: NETMOD WG list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 02 Apr 2020 15:48:45 -0000 --_005_a69215e713ac4c8dbe16948316a858b6huaweicom_ Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="_000_a69215e713ac4c8dbe16948316a858b6huaweicom_" --_000_a69215e713ac4c8dbe16948316a858b6huaweicom_ Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 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Precedence: list List-Id: NETMOD WG list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 02 Apr 2020 16:01:57 -0000 --000000000000ca3e5c05a250eae7 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="000000000000ca3e5a05a250eae6" --000000000000ca3e5a05a250eae6 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hi, I agree that a revision-label could be useful in an I-D but not to indicate NBC changes (because it doesn't). The rules need to be clear and simple with no exceptions. 1) Special version 0.x.y contains NO NBC information Major version =3D 0 means the module has no published version 2) First published version is 1.0.0 3) The revision-label in an unpublished module has a special form which simply identifies the source of the development and the iteration of the work-in-progress. You can't really pick the next published label until the module is ready. >From my example: draft-00: 0.1.0 draft-01: 0.2.0 draft-02: 0.3.0 RFC-1: 1.0.0 bis-draft-00: 1.0.0+1 bis-draft-01: 1.0.0+2 bis-draft-02: 1.0.0+3 [repeat NBC step bis-draft-02 10 times] 1.0.0+4 .. 1.0.0+13 RFC-2: 2.0.0 (in general: 1.0.1 or 1.1.0 or 2.0.0) The BC vs. NBC distinction is not relevant for a work-in-progress. We have seen many times in this WG where a NBC change was made and then later undone. There is no value in tracking the module during development. Andy On Thu, Apr 2, 2020 at 7:46 AM Reshad Rahman (rrahman) wrote: > > > > > *From: *'Andy Bierman' > *Date: *Thursday, April 2, 2020 at 10:26 AM > *To: *"Reshad Rahman (rrahman)" > *Cc: *Italo Busi , "Joe Clarke (jclarke)" < > jclarke@cisco.com>, NetMod WG > *Subject: *Re: [netmod] versioning procedures (RFC vs. I-D) > > > > > > > > On Thu, Apr 2, 2020 at 4:11 AM Reshad Rahman (rrahman) > wrote: > > Hi, > > > > *From: *Italo Busi > *Date: *Thursday, April 2, 2020 at 5:06 AM > *To: *"Reshad Rahman (rrahman)" , 'Andy Bierman' < > andy@yumaworks.com>, "Joe Clarke (jclarke)" > *Cc: *NetMod WG > *Subject: *RE: [netmod] versioning procedures (RFC vs. I-D) > > > > Reshad, > > > > My doubt and, if I understand well also Andy=E2=80=99s question, is about= the fact > that before publishing an RFC-bis with e.g., 1.1.0, we will have a set of > Internet-Drafts updating the RFC with 1.0.0 > > > > What versions should be used in the YANG modules published in these > Internet-Drafts? > > > > Think about the following scenario: -00 version provide BC changes to the > RFC module but the -01 version provide NBC changes to what has been added > in the -00 module (thus the -01 version is BC with the RFC 1.0.0 module b= ut > NBC with the -00 version module) > > So bis 00 would be 1.1.0 (BC with RFC module). > > Bis 01 should be updated according to its relationship to the RFC module > (bis 00 doesn=E2=80=99t matter anymore), when RFC bis is published it won= =E2=80=99t have > the full history. > > > > Hope I correctly understood your question. > > > > > > This semver plan is not very intuitive and not sure it works. > > > > draft-00 > > > > container the-container; version 0.1.0 OK > > > > draft-01: > > container my-container; version 0.2.0; rules violated; > NBC should force 1.0.0 > > > > draft-02: > > > > container my-container { version 0.3.0; should be 1.1.0 > > leaf my-leaf { type int32; } > > } > > > > RFC-1: > > > > container my-container { version 1.0.0; should be 2.0.0 > according to NBC rules > > leaf my-leaf { type uint32; } > > } > > > > bis-draft-00: > > > > container my-container { version 1.1.0; OK > > leaf my-leaf { type uint32; } > > leaf another-leaf { type int32; } > > } > > > > bis-draft-01: > > > > container my-container { diff against RFC-1: version > 1.1.0 but already used; use 1.2.0? > > leaf my-leaf { type uint32; } > > leaf another-leaf { type uint32; } > > } > > > > bis-draft-02: > > > > container example-my-container { diff against RFC-1: > version 2.0.0 but use 1.3.0 instead? > > leaf my-leaf { type uint32; } > > leaf another-leaf { type uint32; } > > } > > > > [repeat NBC step bis-draft-02 10 times.... now up to version 12.0.0 or is > it 1.13.0? something else? > > > > RFC-2: publish draft-12 as RFC-2: now change the label from 1.13.0 to > 2.0.0? or leave it 12.0.0? > > > > IMO it is very confusing that the stated rules are so inconsistent and > are violated so many ways. > > There should be no revision-label at all in Internet Drafts because these > documents are unpublished. > > They should only be added to the RFC version. > > > > The semver procedures are not intended to work for unpublished modules > that are only > > meant for review, not for implementation. The revision-label provides onl= y > noise in Internet Drafts. > > I think it=E2=80=99s useful to have a revision label in a draft bec= ause it > indicates nature of changes (BC v/s NBC) compared to the previous publish= ed > revision (RFC). > > But you are absolutely right that setting the version based on changes > with the previous draft revision is useless and confusing. > > > > Regards, > > Reshad. > > > > > > Regards, > > Reshad. > > > > Thanks, Italo > > > > > > Andy > > > > > > *Italo Busi* > > Principal Optical Transport Network Research Engineer > > Huawei Technologies Co., Ltd. > > Tel : +39 345 4721946 > > Email : italo.busi@huawei.com > > > > This e-mail and its attachments contain confidential information from > HUAWEI, which is intended only for the person or entity whose address is > listed above. Any use of the information contained herein in any way > (including, but not limited to, total or partial disclosure, reproduction= , > or dissemination) by persons other than the intended recipient(s) is > prohibited. If you receive this e-mail in error, please notify the sender > by phone or email immediately and delete it! > > > > *From:* Reshad Rahman (rrahman) [mailto:rrahman@cisco.com] > *Sent:* mercoled=C3=AC 1 aprile 2020 20:13 > *To:* Andy Bierman ; Joe Clarke (jclarke) < > jclarke@cisco.com> > *Cc:* NetMod WG > *Subject:* Re: [netmod] versioning procedures (RFC vs. I-D) > > > > > > *From: *netmod on behalf of 'Andy Bierman' < > andy@yumaworks.com> > *Date: *Wednesday, April 1, 2020 at 2:07 PM > *To: *"Joe Clarke (jclarke)" > *Cc: *NetMod WG > *Subject: *Re: [netmod] versioning procedures (RFC vs. I-D) > > > > > > > > On Wed, Apr 1, 2020 at 10:39 AM Joe Clarke (jclarke) > wrote: > > > > > On Apr 1, 2020, at 13:28, Andy Bierman wrote: > > > > Hi, > > > > I just want to confirm that all the proposed documentation procedures > > using new extensions are limited in scope to published modules only, > > and not applied to unpublished modules (terms defined in RFC 8407). > > > > IMO it would be harmful to module usability to assign revision-labels o= r > > include revision-related extensions in unpublished modules (e.g., > Internet Drafts). > > Consider how cluttered and confusing the client-server modules would be > > if the 50+ NBC changes and versions were tracked through all the I-Ds. > > > > For IETF modules, the first usage of the revision-label > > should be in the initial RFC, and be set to 1.0.0. > > > > If the RFC is ever republished then one can expect to find an updated > > revision-label and possibly extensions tracking NBC changes. > > The semver scheme allocates a major version of 0 for pre-releases where > the BC/NBC rules do not apply. I agree that a first official RFC release > should be 1.0.0 (from a semver revision-label standpoint). From a design > team standpoint, I know we mentioned the 0 versioning early on, but I don= =E2=80=99t > think we spent much time talking about modules under development overall. > > > > > > IMO it is confusing to ignore the semver rules for the special 0.x.y > releases. > > There are many NBC changes made at this point which are treated as minor > or patch changes. > > The procedure is really broken once you consider a WG developing any > RFC-bis module. > > Now the major version is not 0 and all updates look like real releases. > > I don=E2=80=99t think that=E2=80=99s needed. Initial module in RFC h= as 1.0.0, module > in (released) RFC-bis can go to 1.0.1, 1.1.0 or 2.0.0 depending on the > change. > > > > Regards, > > Reshad. > > > > My take would align to yours that we wouldn=E2=80=99t clutter a module wi= th > development NBC tracking. > > Joe > > > > Andy > > > > --000000000000ca3e5a05a250eae6 Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Hi,

I agree that a revision-= label could be useful in an I-D but not to indicate NBC changes (because it= doesn't).
The rules need to be clear and simple with no exce= ptions.

=C2=A01) Special version 0.x.y contains NO= NBC information
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0Major version =3D 0 means th= e module has no published version

=C2=A02) First p= ublished version is 1.0.0

=C2=A03) The revision-la= bel in an unpublished module has a special form which simply identifies
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 the source of the development and the iteration= of the work-in-progress.
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 You can't real= ly pick the next published label until the module is ready.

<= /div>
From my example:

draft-00:=C2=A0 =C2=A00.1.0

draft-01:=C2=A0 =C2=A00.2.0

draft-02:=C2=A0 =C2=A00.3.0

RFC-1:=C2=A0 =C2=A0 1.0.0

bis-draft-00:=C2=A0 =C2=A01.0.0+1

bis-draft-01:=C2=A0 =C2=A01.0.0+2

bis-draft-02:=C2=A0 =C2=A01.0.0+3

[repeat NBC step bis-draft-02 10 times]=C2=A0 1.0.0+= 4 .. 1.0.0+13

RFC-2:=C2=A0 2.0.0=C2=A0 =C2=A0(in general: 1.0.1 or= 1.1.0 or 2.0.0)


The BC vs. = NBC distinction is not relevant for a work-in-progress.
We have s= een many times in this WG where a NBC change was made
and then la= ter undone.=C2=A0 There is no value in tracking the module during developme= nt.


Andy


On Thu, Apr 2, 202= 0 at 7:46 AM Reshad Rahman (rrahman) <rrahman@cisco.com> wrote:

=C2=A0

=C2=A0

From: = 'Andy Bierman'= ; <andy@yumawork= s.com>
Date: Thursday, April 2, 2020 at 10:26 AM
To: "Reshad Rahman (rrahman)" <rrahman@cisco.com>
Cc: Italo Busi <Italo.Busi@huawei.com>, "Joe Clarke (jclarke)"= <jclarke@cisco.c= om>, NetMod WG <netmod@ietf.org>
Subject: Re: [netmod] versioning procedures (RFC vs. I-D)<= /u>

=C2=A0

=C2=A0

=C2=A0

On Thu, Apr 2, 2020 at 4:11 AM Reshad Rahman (rrahma= n) <rrahman@cisco= .com> wrote:

Hi,

=C2=A0

From: Italo Busi <Italo.Busi@huawei.com<= /a>>
Date: Thursday, April 2, 2020 at 5:06 AM
To: "Reshad Rahman (rrahman)" <rrahman@cisco.com>, 'Andy Bierman= ' <andy@yuma= works.com>, "Joe Clarke (jclarke)" <jclarke@cisco.com>
Cc: NetMod WG <netmod@ietf.org>
Subject: RE: [netmod] versioning procedures (RFC vs. I-D)<= /u>

=C2=A0

Reshad,

=C2=A0

My doubt and, if I understand well also Andy=E2=80= =99s question, is about the fact that before publishing an RFC-bis with e.g= ., 1.1.0, we will have a set of Internet-Drafts updating the RFC with 1.0.0

=C2=A0

What versions should be used in the YANG modules pub= lished in these Internet-Drafts?

=C2=A0

Think about the following scenario: -00 version prov= ide BC changes to the RFC module but the -01 version provide NBC changes to= what has been added in the -00 module (thus the -01 version is BC with the RFC 1.0.0 module but NBC with the -00 version modul= e)

<RR> So bis 00 would be 1.1.0 (BC with RFC mod= ule).

Bis 01 should be updated according to its relationsh= ip to the RFC module (bis 00 doesn=E2=80=99t matter anymore), when RFC bis = is published it won=E2=80=99t have the full history.

=C2=A0

Hope I correctly understood your question.=

=C2=A0

=C2=A0

This semver plan is not very intuitive and not sure = it works.

=C2=A0

draft-00

=C2=A0

=C2=A0 =C2=A0container the-container;=C2=A0 =C2=A0 = =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0version 0.1.0=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 OK

=C2=A0

draft-01:

=C2=A0 =C2=A0container my-container;=C2=A0 =C2=A0 = =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0version 0.2.0;=C2=A0 =C2=A0rules violated= ; NBC should force 1.0.0

=C2=A0

draft-02:

=C2=A0

=C2=A0 =C2=A0 container my-container {=C2=A0 =C2=A0 = =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0version 0.3.0; should be 1.1.0=C2=A0

=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 leaf my-leaf { type int3= 2; }

=C2=A0 =C2=A0 }=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 = =C2=A0=C2=A0

=C2=A0

RFC-1:

=C2=A0

=C2=A0 =C2=A0 container my-container {=C2=A0 =C2=A0 = =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0version 1.0.0;=C2=A0 should be 2.0.0 according t= o NBC rules

=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 leaf my-leaf { type uint= 32; }

=C2=A0 =C2=A0 }=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 = =C2=A0=C2=A0

=C2=A0

bis-draft-00:

=C2=A0

=C2=A0 =C2=A0container my-container {=C2=A0 =C2=A0 = =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0version 1.1.0;=C2=A0OK

=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 leaf my-leaf { type uint= 32; }

=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 leaf another-leaf { type= int32; }

=C2=A0 =C2=A0 }=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 = =C2=A0=C2=A0

=C2=A0

bis-draft-01:

=C2=A0

=C2=A0 container my-container {=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 = =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 diff against RFC-1:=C2=A0 version= 1.1.0 but already used; use 1.2.0?

=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 leaf my-leaf { type uint= 32; }

=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 leaf another-leaf { type= uint32; }

=C2=A0 =C2=A0 }=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 = =C2=A0=C2=A0

=C2=A0

bis-draft-02:

=C2=A0

=C2=A0 container example-my-container {=C2=A0 =C2=A0= =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 diff against RFC-1:=C2=A0= version 2.0.0 but use 1.3.0 instead?

=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 leaf my-leaf { type uint= 32; }

=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 leaf another-leaf { type= uint32; }

=C2=A0 =C2=A0 }=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 = =C2=A0=C2=A0

=C2=A0

[repeat NBC step bis-draft-02 10 times.... now up to= version 12.0.0 or is it 1.13.0? something else?

=C2=A0

RFC-2:=C2=A0 =C2=A0publish draft-12 as RFC-2: now ch= ange the label from 1.13.0 to 2.0.0? or leave it 12.0.0?

=C2=A0

IMO it is very confusing that the stated rules are s= o inconsistent and are=C2=A0violated so many ways.

There should be no revision-label at all in Internet= Drafts because these documents are=C2=A0unpublished.

They should only be added to the RFC version.=

=C2=A0

The semver procedures are not intended to work for u= npublished modules that are only

meant for review, not for implementation. The=C2=A0r= evision-label provides only noise in Internet Drafts.

<RR2> I think it=E2=80=99s useful to have a re= vision label in a draft because it indicates nature of changes (BC v/s NBC)= compared to the previous published revision (RFC).

But you are absolutely right that setting the versio= n based on changes with the previous draft revision is useless and confusin= g.

=C2=A0

Regards,

Reshad.

=C2=A0=C2=A0

=C2=A0

Regards,

Reshad.

=C2=A0

Thanks, Italo

=C2=A0

=C2=A0

Andy

=C2=A0

=C2=A0

=C2=A0

From: Reshad Rahman (rrahman) [mailto:rrahman@cisco.com]
Sent: mercoled=C3=AC 1 aprile 2020 20:13
To: Andy Bierman <andy@yumaworks.com>; Joe Clarke (jclarke) <jclarke@cisco.com>
Cc: NetMod WG <netmod@ietf.org>
Subject: Re: [netmod] versioning procedures (RFC vs. I-D)<= /u>

=C2=A0

=C2=A0

From: netmod <netmod-bounces@ietf.org<= /a>> on behalf of 'Andy Bierman' <andy@yumaworks.com>
Date: Wednesday, April 1, 2020 at 2:07 PM
To: "Joe Clarke (jclarke)" <jclarke@cisco.com>
Cc: NetMod WG <netmod@ietf.org>
Subject: Re: [netmod] versioning procedures (RFC vs. I-D)<= /u>

=C2=A0

=C2=A0

=C2=A0

On Wed, Apr 1, 2020 at 10:39 AM Joe Clarke (jclarke)= <jclarke@cisco.c= om> wrote:



> On Apr 1, 2020, at 13:28, Andy Bierman <andy@yumaworks.com> wrote:
>
> Hi,
>
> I just want to confirm that all the proposed documentation procedures<= br> > using new extensions are limited in scope to published modules only, > and not applied to unpublished modules (terms defined in RFC 8407). >
> IMO it would be harmful to module usability to assign revision-labels = or
> include revision-related extensions in unpublished modules (e.g., Inte= rnet Drafts).
> Consider how cluttered and confusing the client-server modules would b= e
> if the 50+ NBC changes and versions were tracked through all the I-Ds.=
>
> For IETF modules, the first usage of the revision-label
> should be in the initial RFC, and be set to 1.0.0.
>
> If the RFC is ever republished then one can expect to find an updated<= br> > revision-label and possibly extensions tracking NBC changes.

The semver scheme allocates a major version of 0 for pre-releases where the= BC/NBC rules do not apply.=C2=A0 I agree that a first official RFC release= should be 1.0.0 (from a semver revision-label standpoint).=C2=A0 From a de= sign team standpoint, I know we mentioned the 0 versioning early on, but I don=E2=80=99t think we spent much time ta= lking about modules under development overall.

=C2=A0

=C2=A0

IMO it is confusing to ignore the semver rules for t= he special 0.x.y releases.

There are many NBC changes made at this point which = are treated as minor or patch changes.

The procedure is really broken once you consider a W= G developing any RFC-bis module.

Now the major version is not 0 and all updates look = like real releases.

<RR> I don=E2=80=99t think that=E2=80=99s need= ed. Initial module in RFC has 1.0.0, module in (released) RFC-bis can go to= 1.0.1, 1.1.0 or 2.0.0 depending on the change.

=C2=A0

Regards,

Reshad.

=C2=A0

My take would align to yours that we wouldn=E2=80=99= t clutter a module with development NBC tracking.

Joe

=C2=A0

Andy

=C2=A0

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b=EfYS96xgCLO2MJH5UFIDPZO1nr5BynSKfsRP7r+qhN0ygFbI6B6KWiEHDhq97fvjvs W093uFan5g8pl6ZyFvWpIrcGAsQwa0xcTTML5guidgL7Zqmc+RepdR+nL/DWy7WM9yKu 9acB9lE6mBqKKb5PFYW0cpdI8xwlRqD2kaBCDLKUnFkcaxyDHT5YBVWtKKeb7wEsh4xg MrzNLo1L3gV3LCMcgbwfluvs2FOQ3n0Ds3kvxF9/Tf96GEen7V6P/R61P+zoYav1EKv+ fuyuBz4f5rqJwg10jgY1Klz63ZebYmJ2WxU9xWy/N5VbktrSL5xtetaViPkrMVZmtPNf Ojvw== X-Gm-Message-State: AGi0PuZbKsxTYiOGJKPGeSs4a7aezsnk10t4sNaNzDSbyAwvWZxdJENo PW/kgTkIn+mO0I65OiOgVsr0UNUzB8xaPkEkn5nlT+Ek X-Google-Smtp-Source: APiQypK21SJf6vV7AirC2CarOlOFRnboV4DdHZqyLLfNFsbaAA/rbeUZSy3k3krGmmsfiIp1/uy84tLvmzn2X1BGpkA= X-Received: by 2002:a5b:c4a:: with SMTP id d10mr6955847ybr.59.1585844572859; Thu, 02 Apr 2020 09:22:52 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 References: <50052092-0380-44C6-8AE0-1AB3C15C30B4@cisco.com> <1DE96CAC-43BC-4638-AE96-2E770CA7CE20@cisco.com> In-Reply-To: From: Andy Bierman Date: Thu, 2 Apr 2020 09:22:41 -0700 Message-ID: To: Italo Busi Cc: "Reshad Rahman (rrahman)" , "Joe Clarke (jclarke)" , NetMod WG Content-Type: multipart/related; boundary="0000000000006f61e405a25136fb" Archived-At: Subject: Re: [netmod] versioning procedures (RFC vs. I-D) X-BeenThere: netmod@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: NETMOD WG list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 02 Apr 2020 16:23:12 -0000 --0000000000006f61e405a25136fb Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="0000000000006f61e305a25136fa" --0000000000006f61e305a25136fa Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable On Thu, Apr 2, 2020 at 8:48 AM Italo Busi wrote: > If I understand correctly, the Reshad=E2=80=99s solution could lead to an= history > as: > > - bis-00 being 1.1.0 (BC with the RFC module) > > - bis-01 being 1.1.0 (BC with the RFC module even if NBC with > bis-00) > > - bis-02 being 2.0.0 (NBC with RFC module even if BC with bis-01= ) > > - bis-03 being 1.1.0 (BC with RFC module but not NBC with bis-02 > because e.g., the changes in bis-02 that were NBC with RFC module have be= en > removed and/or made BC with RFC module) > > > I do not see how it is useful to assign the same revision-label to different versions, or to use a real label for a work-in-progress. The semantics "This might be v1.1.0 someday" is not useful, and easily confused with "this is v1.1.0". Andy The rule looks like that an I-D version represents the version that would > be used by that module if the I-D were published as an RFC and all the ol= d > I-Ds have never existed. > > > > If this rule works, I do not understand why we need the 0.x.y releases. I > think that the I-Ds with the initial draft versions of the module can be > 1.0.0. > > > > Am I missing something? > > > > Tools could work if they are able to use the revision date to get the > latest version of a given module/version. > > > > Thanks, Italo > > > > > > *Italo Busi* > > Principal Optical Transport Network Research Engineer > > Huawei Technologies Co., Ltd. > > Tel : +39 345 4721946 > > Email : italo.busi@huawei.com > > > > This e-mail and its attachments contain confidential information from > HUAWEI, which is intended only for the person or entity whose address is > listed above. Any use of the information contained herein in any way > (including, but not limited to, total or partial disclosure, reproduction= , > or dissemination) by persons other than the intended recipient(s) is > prohibited. If you receive this e-mail in error, please notify the sender > by phone or email immediately and delete it! > > > > *From:* Andy Bierman [mailto:andy@yumaworks.com] > *Sent:* gioved=C3=AC 2 aprile 2020 17:28 > *To:* Reshad Rahman (rrahman) > *Cc:* Italo Busi ; Joe Clarke (jclarke) < > jclarke@cisco.com>; NetMod WG > *Subject:* Re: [netmod] versioning procedures (RFC vs. I-D) > > > > > > > > On Thu, Apr 2, 2020 at 7:46 AM Reshad Rahman (rrahman) > wrote: > > > > > > *From: *'Andy Bierman' > *Date: *Thursday, April 2, 2020 at 10:26 AM > *To: *"Reshad Rahman (rrahman)" > *Cc: *Italo Busi , "Joe Clarke (jclarke)" < > jclarke@cisco.com>, NetMod WG > *Subject: *Re: [netmod] versioning procedures (RFC vs. I-D) > > > > > > > > On Thu, Apr 2, 2020 at 4:11 AM Reshad Rahman (rrahman) > wrote: > > Hi, > > > > *From: *Italo Busi > *Date: *Thursday, April 2, 2020 at 5:06 AM > *To: *"Reshad Rahman (rrahman)" , 'Andy Bierman' < > andy@yumaworks.com>, "Joe Clarke (jclarke)" > *Cc: *NetMod WG > *Subject: *RE: [netmod] versioning procedures (RFC vs. I-D) > > > > Reshad, > > > > My doubt and, if I understand well also Andy=E2=80=99s question, is about= the fact > that before publishing an RFC-bis with e.g., 1.1.0, we will have a set of > Internet-Drafts updating the RFC with 1.0.0 > > > > What versions should be used in the YANG modules published in these > Internet-Drafts? > > > > Think about the following scenario: -00 version provide BC changes to the > RFC module but the -01 version provide NBC changes to what has been added > in the -00 module (thus the -01 version is BC with the RFC 1.0.0 module b= ut > NBC with the -00 version module) > > So bis 00 would be 1.1.0 (BC with RFC module). > > Bis 01 should be updated according to its relationship to the RFC module > (bis 00 doesn=E2=80=99t matter anymore), when RFC bis is published it won= =E2=80=99t have > the full history. > > > > Hope I correctly understood your question. > > > > > > This semver plan is not very intuitive and not sure it works. > > > > draft-00 > > > > container the-container; version 0.1.0 OK > > > > draft-01: > > container my-container; version 0.2.0; rules violated; > NBC should force 1.0.0 > > > > draft-02: > > > > container my-container { version 0.3.0; should be 1.1.0 > > leaf my-leaf { type int32; } > > } > > > > RFC-1: > > > > container my-container { version 1.0.0; should be 2.0.0 > according to NBC rules > > leaf my-leaf { type uint32; } > > } > > > > bis-draft-00: > > > > container my-container { version 1.1.0; OK > > leaf my-leaf { type uint32; } > > leaf another-leaf { type int32; } > > } > > > > bis-draft-01: > > > > container my-container { diff against RFC-1: version > 1.1.0 but already used; use 1.2.0? > > leaf my-leaf { type uint32; } > > leaf another-leaf { type uint32; } > > } > > > > bis-draft-02: > > > > container example-my-container { diff against RFC-1: > version 2.0.0 but use 1.3.0 instead? > > leaf my-leaf { type uint32; } > > leaf another-leaf { type uint32; } > > } > > > > [repeat NBC step bis-draft-02 10 times.... now up to version 12.0.0 or is > it 1.13.0? something else? > > > > RFC-2: publish draft-12 as RFC-2: now change the label from 1.13.0 to > 2.0.0? or leave it 12.0.0? > > > > IMO it is very confusing that the stated rules are so inconsistent and > are violated so many ways. > > There should be no revision-label at all in Internet Drafts because these > documents are unpublished. > > They should only be added to the RFC version. > > > > The semver procedures are not intended to work for unpublished modules > that are only > > meant for review, not for implementation. The revision-label provides onl= y > noise in Internet Drafts. > > I think it=E2=80=99s useful to have a revision label in a draft bec= ause it > indicates nature of changes (BC v/s NBC) compared to the previous publish= ed > revision (RFC). > > But you are absolutely right that setting the version based on changes > with the previous draft revision is useless and confusing. > > > > > > IMO the part that is confusing is that the rules for picking the next > revision-label > > are violated for the draft versions (including the special case 0.x.y > versions). > > NBC changes appear to be minor changes. The SEM in SEMVER is not useful > > if the identifier does actually reflect the semantics of the label. > > > > Comparing against the last published version also seems to violate the > rules. > > Either the same label (e.g. 2.0.0 is used over and over, or new numbers > are used > > based on the last draft version (2.0.0, then 2.1.0or maybe 3.0.0 - not > sure). > > Using the same label for different versions of a module would be really > confusing. > > It is confusing to use incremental numbers to sometimes mean "compare > against last label" > > and other times mean "compare against some unspecified label in the past"= . > > There is no way to distinguish a label for a published module and an > unpublished module. > > > > > > > > Regards, > > Reshad. > > > > > > > > Andy > > > > Regards, > > Reshad. > > > > Thanks, Italo > > > > > > Andy > > > > > > *Italo Busi* > > Principal Optical Transport Network Research Engineer > > Huawei Technologies Co., Ltd. > > Tel : +39 345 4721946 > > Email : italo.busi@huawei.com > > > > This e-mail and its attachments contain confidential information from > HUAWEI, which is intended only for the person or entity whose address is > listed above. Any use of the information contained herein in any way > (including, but not limited to, total or partial disclosure, reproduction= , > or dissemination) by persons other than the intended recipient(s) is > prohibited. If you receive this e-mail in error, please notify the sender > by phone or email immediately and delete it! > > > > *From:* Reshad Rahman (rrahman) [mailto:rrahman@cisco.com] > *Sent:* mercoled=C3=AC 1 aprile 2020 20:13 > *To:* Andy Bierman ; Joe Clarke (jclarke) < > jclarke@cisco.com> > *Cc:* NetMod WG > *Subject:* Re: [netmod] versioning procedures (RFC vs. I-D) > > > > > > *From: *netmod on behalf of 'Andy Bierman' < > andy@yumaworks.com> > *Date: *Wednesday, April 1, 2020 at 2:07 PM > *To: *"Joe Clarke (jclarke)" > *Cc: *NetMod WG > *Subject: *Re: [netmod] versioning procedures (RFC vs. I-D) > > > > > > > > On Wed, Apr 1, 2020 at 10:39 AM Joe Clarke (jclarke) > wrote: > > > > > On Apr 1, 2020, at 13:28, Andy Bierman wrote: > > > > Hi, > > > > I just want to confirm that all the proposed documentation procedures > > using new extensions are limited in scope to published modules only, > > and not applied to unpublished modules (terms defined in RFC 8407). > > > > IMO it would be harmful to module usability to assign revision-labels o= r > > include revision-related extensions in unpublished modules (e.g., > Internet Drafts). > > Consider how cluttered and confusing the client-server modules would be > > if the 50+ NBC changes and versions were tracked through all the I-Ds. > > > > For IETF modules, the first usage of the revision-label > > should be in the initial RFC, and be set to 1.0.0. > > > > If the RFC is ever republished then one can expect to find an updated > > revision-label and possibly extensions tracking NBC changes. > > The semver scheme allocates a major version of 0 for pre-releases where > the BC/NBC rules do not apply. I agree that a first official RFC release > should be 1.0.0 (from a semver revision-label standpoint). From a design > team standpoint, I know we mentioned the 0 versioning early on, but I don= =E2=80=99t > think we spent much time talking about modules under development overall. > > > > > > IMO it is confusing to ignore the semver rules for the special 0.x.y > releases. > > There are many NBC changes made at this point which are treated as minor > or patch changes. > > The procedure is really broken once you consider a WG developing any > RFC-bis module. > > Now the major version is not 0 and all updates look like real releases. > > I don=E2=80=99t think that=E2=80=99s needed. Initial module in RFC h= as 1.0.0, module > in (released) RFC-bis can go to 1.0.1, 1.1.0 or 2.0.0 depending on the > change. > > > > Regards, > > Reshad. > > > > My take would align to yours that we wouldn=E2=80=99t clutter a module wi= th > development NBC tracking. > > Joe > > > > Andy > > > > --0000000000006f61e305a25136fa Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable


=
On Thu, Apr 2, 2020 at 8:48 AM Italo = Busi <Italo.Busi@huawei.com= > wrote:

<= span style=3D"font-family:Calibri,sans-serif;color:rgb(31,73,125)">If I und= erstand correctly, the Reshad=E2=80=99s solution could lead to an history a= s:

-=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 bis-00 bei= ng 1.1.0 (BC with the RFC module)

-=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 bis-01 bei= ng 1.1.0 (BC with the RFC module even if NBC with bis-00)

-=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 bis-02 bei= ng 2.0.0 (NBC with RFC module even if BC with bis-01)<= /p>

-=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 bis-03 bei= ng 1.1.0 (BC with RFC module but not NBC with bis-02 because e.g., the chan= ges in bis-02 that were NBC with RFC module have been removed and/or made B= C with RFC module)

=C2=A0


<= /div>
I do not see how it is useful to assign the same revision-label t= o different versions,
or to use a real label for a work-in-progre= ss.=C2=A0 The semantics "This might be v1.1.0 someday"
= is not useful, and easily confused=C2=A0with "this is v1.1.0".


Andy


The rule looks like that an I-D version represents the vers= ion that would be used by that module if the I-D were published as an RFC a= nd all the old I-Ds have never existed.

=C2=A0

If this rule works, I do not understand why we need the 0.x= .y releases. I think that the I-Ds with the initial draft versions of the m= odule can be 1.0.0.

=C2=A0

Am I missing something?

=C2=A0

Tools could work if they are able to use the revision date = to get the latest version of a given module/version.

=C2=A0

Thanks, Italo

=C2=A0

=C2=A0

Italo Bus= i

Principal=C2=A0Optical= =C2=A0Transport=C2=A0Network=C2=A0Research=C2=A0Engineer

Huawei=C2=A0Technologies= =C2=A0Co.,=C2=A0Ltd.

Tel=C2=A0:=C2=A0+39=C2= =A0345=C2=A04721946

Email=C2=A0:=C2=A0italo.busi@huawei.com<= /a>

=C2=A0

This e-mail and its attachments contain con= fidential information from HUAWEI, which is intended only for the person or= entity whose address is listed above. Any use of the information contained herein in any way (i= ncluding, but not limited to, total or partial disclosure, reproduction, or= dissemination) by persons other than the intended recipient(s) is prohibit= ed. If you receive this e-mail in error, please notify the sender by phone or email immediately and delete i= t!

=C2=A0

From: Andy Bierman [mailto:andy@yumaworks.com]
Sent: gioved=C3=AC 2 aprile 2020 17:28
To: Reshad Rahman (rrahman) <rrahman@cisco.com>
Cc: Italo Busi <Italo.Busi@huawei.com>; Joe Clarke (jclarke) <jclarke@cisco.com>; = NetMod WG <netmod@i= etf.org>
Subject: Re: [netmod] versioning procedures (RFC vs. I-D)<= /u>

=C2=A0

=C2=A0

=C2=A0

On Thu, Apr 2, 2020 at 7:46 AM Reshad Rahman (rrahma= n) <rrahman@cisco= .com> wrote:

=C2=A0

=C2=A0

From: 'Andy Bierman'= ; <andy@yumawork= s.com>
Date: Thursday, April 2, 2020 at 10:26 AM
To: "Reshad Rahman (rrahman)" <rrahman@cisco.com>
Cc: Italo Busi <Italo.Busi@huawei.com>, "Joe Clarke (jclarke)"= <jclarke@cisco.c= om>, NetMod WG <netmod@ietf.org>
Subject: Re: [netmod] versioning procedures (RFC vs. I-D)

=C2=A0

=C2=A0

=C2=A0

On Thu, Apr 2, 2020 at 4:11 AM = Reshad Rahman (rrahman) <rrahman@cisco.com> wrote:

Hi,

=C2=A0

From: Italo Busi <Italo.Busi@huawei.com<= /a>>
Date: Thursday, April 2, 2020 at 5:06 AM
To: "Reshad Rahman (rrahman)" <rrahman@cisco.com>, 'Andy Bierman= ' <andy@yuma= works.com>, "Joe Clarke (jclarke)" <jclarke@cisco.com>
Cc: NetMod WG <netmod@ietf.org>
Subject: RE: [netmod] versioning procedures (RFC vs. I-D)

=C2=A0

Reshad,

=C2=A0

My doubt and, if I understand w= ell also Andy=E2=80=99s question, is about the fact that before publishing = an RFC-bis with e.g., 1.1.0, we will have a set of Internet-Drafts updating the RFC with 1.0.0

=C2=A0

What versions should be used in= the YANG modules published in these Internet-Drafts?<= /p>

=C2=A0

Think about the following scena= rio: -00 version provide BC changes to the RFC module but the -01 version p= rovide NBC changes to what has been added in the -00 module (thus the -01 version is BC with the RFC 1.0.0 module but NBC with = the -00 version module)

<RR> So bis 00 would be 1= .1.0 (BC with RFC module).

Bis 01 should be updated accord= ing to its relationship to the RFC module (bis 00 doesn=E2=80=99t matter an= ymore), when RFC bis is published it won=E2=80=99t have the full history.

=C2=A0

Hope I correctly understood you= r question.

=C2=A0

=C2=A0

This semver plan is not very in= tuitive and not sure it works.

=C2=A0

draft-00

=C2=A0

=C2=A0 =C2=A0container the-cont= ainer;=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0version 0.1.0=C2=A0 = =C2=A0 =C2=A0 OK

=C2=A0

draft-01:<= /p>

=C2=A0 =C2=A0container my-conta= iner;=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0version 0.2.0;=C2=A0 = =C2=A0rules violated; NBC should force 1.0.0

=C2=A0

draft-02:<= /p>

=C2=A0

=C2=A0 =C2=A0 container my-cont= ainer {=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0version 0.3.0; should be 1.= 1.0=C2=A0

=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 lea= f my-leaf { type int32; }

=C2=A0 =C2=A0 }=C2=A0 =C2=A0 = =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0=C2=A0

=C2=A0

RFC-1:

=C2=A0

=C2=A0 =C2=A0 container my-cont= ainer {=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0version 1.0.0;=C2=A0 should= be 2.0.0 according to NBC rules

=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 lea= f my-leaf { type uint32; }

=C2=A0 =C2=A0 }=C2=A0 =C2=A0 = =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0=C2=A0

=C2=A0

bis-draft-00:

=C2=A0

=C2=A0 =C2=A0container my-conta= iner {=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0version 1.1.0;=C2=A0OK

=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 lea= f my-leaf { type uint32; }

=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 lea= f another-leaf { type int32; }

=C2=A0 =C2=A0 }=C2=A0 =C2=A0 = =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0=C2=A0

=C2=A0

bis-draft-01:

=C2=A0

=C2=A0 container my-container {= =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 diff against= RFC-1:=C2=A0 version 1.1.0 but already used; use 1.2.0?

=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 lea= f my-leaf { type uint32; }

=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 lea= f another-leaf { type uint32; }

=C2=A0 =C2=A0 }=C2=A0 =C2=A0 = =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0=C2=A0

=C2=A0

bis-draft-02:

=C2=A0

=C2=A0 container example-my-con= tainer {=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 diff= against RFC-1:=C2=A0 version 2.0.0 but use 1.3.0 instead?

=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 lea= f my-leaf { type uint32; }

=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 lea= f another-leaf { type uint32; }

=C2=A0 =C2=A0 }=C2=A0 =C2=A0 = =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0=C2=A0

=C2=A0

[repeat NBC step bis-draft-02 1= 0 times.... now up to version 12.0.0 or is it 1.13.0? something else?

=C2=A0

RFC-2:=C2=A0 =C2=A0publish draf= t-12 as RFC-2: now change the label from 1.13.0 to 2.0.0? or leave it 12.0.= 0?

=C2=A0

IMO it is very confusing that t= he stated rules are so inconsistent and are=C2=A0violated so many ways.<= /u>

There should be no revision-lab= el at all in Internet Drafts because these documents are=C2=A0unpublished.<= u>

They should only be added to th= e RFC version.

=C2=A0

The semver procedures are not i= ntended to work for unpublished modules that are only<= /p>

meant for review, not for imple= mentation. The=C2=A0revision-label provides only noise in Internet Drafts.<= u>

<RR2> I think it=E2=80=99= s useful to have a revision label in a draft because it indicates nature of= changes (BC v/s NBC) compared to the previous published revision (RFC).

But you are absolutely right th= at setting the version based on changes with the previous draft revision is= useless and confusing.

=C2=A0

=C2=A0

IMO the part that is confusing is that the rules for= picking the next revision-label

are violated for the draft versions (including the s= pecial case 0.x.y versions).

NBC changes appear to be minor changes.=C2=A0 The SE= M in SEMVER is not useful

if the identifier does actually reflect the semantic= s of the label.

=C2=A0

Comparing against the last published version also se= ems to violate the rules.

Either the same label (e.g. 2.0.0 is used over and o= ver, or new numbers are used

based on the last draft version (2.0.0, then 2.1.0or= maybe 3.0.0 - not sure).=C2=A0

Using the same label for different versions of a mod= ule would be really confusing.

It is confusing to use incremental numbers to someti= mes mean "compare against last label"

and other times mean "compare against some unsp= ecified label in the past".

There is no way to distinguish a label for a publish= ed module and an unpublished module.

=C2=A0

=C2=A0

=C2=A0

Regards,

Reshad.

=C2=A0=C2=A0

=C2=A0

=C2=A0

Andy

=C2=A0

Regards,

Reshad.

=C2=A0

Thanks, Italo

=C2=A0

=C2=A0

Andy

=C2=A0

= =C2=A0

Italo Busi

Principal= =C2=A0Optical=C2=A0Transport=C2=A0Network=C2=A0Research=C2=A0Engineer

Huawei=C2= =A0Technologies=C2=A0Co.,=C2=A0Ltd.

Tel=C2=A0= :=C2=A0+39=C2=A0345=C2=A04721946<= /span>

Email=C2= =A0:=C2=A0italo.= busi@huawei.com

=

=C2=A0

This e-mail and its attachme= nts contain confidential information from HUAWEI, which is intended only for the person or entity whose address is listed above. Any use of th= e information contained herein in any way (including, but not limited to, t= otal or partial disclosure, reproduction, or dissemination) by persons othe= r than the intended recipient(s) is prohibited. If you receive this e-mail in error, please notify the send= er by phone or email immediately and delete it!=

= =C2=A0

From: Reshad Rahman (rrahman) [mailto:rrahman@cisco.com]
Sent: mercoled=C3=AC 1 aprile 2020 20:13
To: Andy Bierman <andy@yumaworks.com>; Joe Clarke (jclarke) <jclarke@cisco.com>
Cc: NetMod WG <netmod@ietf.org>
Subject: Re: [netmod] versioning procedures (RFC vs. I-D)<= /u>

=C2=A0

=C2=A0

From: netmod <netmod-bounces@ietf.org<= /a>> on behalf of 'Andy Bierman' <andy@yumaworks.com>
Date: Wednesday, April 1, 2020 at 2:07 PM
To: "Joe Clarke (jclarke)" <jclarke@cisco.com>
Cc: NetMod WG <netmod@ietf.org>
Subject: Re: [netmod] versioning procedures (RFC vs. I-D)

=C2=A0

=C2=A0

=C2=A0

On Wed, Apr 1, 2020 at 10:39 AM= Joe Clarke (jclarke) <jclarke@cisco.com> wrote:


> On Apr 1, 2020, at 13:28, Andy Bierman <andy@yumaworks.com> wrote:
>
> Hi,
>
> I just want to confirm that all the proposed documentation procedures<= br> > using new extensions are limited in scope to published modules only, > and not applied to unpublished modules (terms defined in RFC 8407). >
> IMO it would be harmful to module usability to assign revision-labels = or
> include revision-related extensions in unpublished modules (e.g., Inte= rnet Drafts).
> Consider how cluttered and confusing the client-server modules would b= e
> if the 50+ NBC changes and versions were tracked through all the I-Ds.=
>
> For IETF modules, the first usage of the revision-label
> should be in the initial RFC, and be set to 1.0.0.
>
> If the RFC is ever republished then one can expect to find an updated<= br> > revision-label and possibly extensions tracking NBC changes.

The semver scheme allocates a major version of 0 for pre-releases where the= BC/NBC rules do not apply.=C2=A0 I agree that a first official RFC release= should be 1.0.0 (from a semver revision-label standpoint).=C2=A0 From a de= sign team standpoint, I know we mentioned the 0 versioning early on, but I don=E2=80=99t think we spent much time ta= lking about modules under development overall.

=C2=A0

=C2=A0

IMO it is confusing to ignore t= he semver rules for the special 0.x.y releases.

There are many NBC changes made= at this point which are treated as minor or patch changes.

The procedure is really broken = once you consider a WG developing any RFC-bis module.<= /p>

Now the major version is not 0 = and all updates look like real releases.

<RR> I don=E2=80=99t thin= k that=E2=80=99s needed. Initial module in RFC has 1.0.0, module in (releas= ed) RFC-bis can go to 1.0.1, 1.1.0 or 2.0.0 depending on the change.=

=C2=A0

Regards,

Reshad.

=C2=A0

My take would align to yours th= at we wouldn=E2=80=99t clutter a module with development NBC tracking.

Joe

=C2=A0

Andy

=C2=A0

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X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-fromentityheader: Hosted X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-id: 5ae1af62-9505-4097-a69a-c1553ef7840e X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-mailboxtype: HOSTED X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-userprincipalname: jUj9j2vyDNfKlCpDPQjtQpj8ggJGapeIpjo11bCWP66nc6Qu9tTG77TUYjyjqZRFvPdLS13ZU7m2gHjbxscOMQ== X-MS-Exchange-Transport-CrossTenantHeadersStamped: BN6PR11MB3986 X-OriginatorOrg: cisco.com X-Outbound-SMTP-Client: 173.37.102.15, xch-rcd-005.cisco.com X-Outbound-Node: alln-core-8.cisco.com Archived-At: Subject: Re: [netmod] versioning procedures (RFC vs. I-D) X-BeenThere: netmod@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: NETMOD WG list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 02 Apr 2020 16:42:07 -0000 --_000_0383A6F827CB4A768B2A47F229F01025ciscocom_ Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable On Apr 2, 2020, at 12:01, Andy Bierman > wrote: Hi, I agree that a revision-label could be useful in an I-D but not to indicate= NBC changes (because it doesn't). The rules need to be clear and simple with no exceptions. 1) Special version 0.x.y contains NO NBC information Major version =3D 0 means the module has no published version 2) First published version is 1.0.0 3) The revision-label in an unpublished module has a special form which si= mply identifies the source of the development and the iteration of the work-in-progre= ss. You can't really pick the next published label until the module is re= ady. >From my example: draft-00: 0.1.0 draft-01: 0.2.0 draft-02: 0.3.0 RFC-1: 1.0.0 bis-draft-00: 1.0.0+1 bis-draft-01: 1.0.0+2 bis-draft-02: 1.0.0+3 [repeat NBC step bis-draft-02 10 times] 1.0.0+4 .. 1.0.0+13 RFC-2: 2.0.0 (in general: 1.0.1 or 1.1.0 or 2.0.0) The BC vs. NBC distinction is not relevant for a work-in-progress. We have seen many times in this WG where a NBC change was made and then later undone. There is no value in tracking the module during dev= elopment. I support this scheme. Rob raised it on the call today as well. Since YAN= G semver is a superset of semver 2.0.0, these pre-release and build appendi= xes will work and could be a way to handle bis drafts well. Joe --_000_0383A6F827CB4A768B2A47F229F01025ciscocom_ Content-Type: text/html; charset="us-ascii" Content-ID: <0CDA25ADBC12F544ADBD542CD1B0D27A@namprd11.prod.outlook.com> Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

On Apr 2, 2020, at 12:01, Andy Bierman <andy@yumaworks.com> wrote:

Hi,

I agree that a revision-label could be useful in an I-D but= not to indicate NBC changes (because it doesn't).
The rules need to be clear and simple with no exceptions.

 1) Special version 0.x.y contains NO NBC information<= /div>
     Major version =3D 0 means the module ha= s no published version

 2) First published version is 1.0.0

 3) The revision-label in an unpublished module has a = special form which simply identifies
      the source of the development and the = iteration of the work-in-progress.
      You can't really pick the next publish= ed label until the module is ready.

From my example:

draft-00:   0.1.0

draft-01:   0.2.0

draft-02:   0.3.0

RFC-1:    1.0.0

bis-draft-00:   1.0.0+1

bis-draft-01:   1.0.0+2

bis-draft-02:   1.0.0+3

[repeat NBC step bis-draft-02 10 times]  1.0.0&= #43;4 .. 1.0.0+13

RFC-2:  2.0.0   (in general: 1.0.1 or= 1.1.0 or 2.0.0)


The BC vs. NBC distinction is not relevant for a work-in-pr= ogress.
We have seen many times in this WG where a NBC change was m= ade
and then later undone.  There is no value in tracking = the module during development.

I support this scheme.  Rob raised it on the call today as well. =  Since YANG semver is a superset of semver 2.0.0, these pre-release an= d build appendixes will work and could be a way to handle bis drafts well.<= /div>

Joe
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Archived-At: Subject: Re: [netmod] versioning procedures (RFC vs. I-D) X-BeenThere: netmod@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: NETMOD WG list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 02 Apr 2020 16:51:47 -0000 QW5keSBCaWVybWFuIDxhbmR5QHl1bWF3b3Jrcy5jb20+IHdyb3RlOg0KPiBIaSwNCj4gDQo+IEkg YWdyZWUgdGhhdCBhIHJldmlzaW9uLWxhYmVsIGNvdWxkIGJlIHVzZWZ1bCBpbiBhbiBJLUQgYnV0 IG5vdCB0byBpbmRpY2F0ZQ0KPiBOQkMgY2hhbmdlcyAoYmVjYXVzZSBpdCBkb2Vzbid0KS4NCj4g VGhlIHJ1bGVzIG5lZWQgdG8gYmUgY2xlYXIgYW5kIHNpbXBsZSB3aXRoIG5vIGV4Y2VwdGlvbnMu DQo+IA0KPiAgMSkgU3BlY2lhbCB2ZXJzaW9uIDAueC55IGNvbnRhaW5zIE5PIE5CQyBpbmZvcm1h dGlvbg0KPiAgICAgIE1ham9yIHZlcnNpb24gPSAwIG1lYW5zIHRoZSBtb2R1bGUgaGFzIG5vIHB1 Ymxpc2hlZCB2ZXJzaW9uDQo+IA0KPiAgMikgRmlyc3QgcHVibGlzaGVkIHZlcnNpb24gaXMgMS4w LjANCj4gDQo+ICAzKSBUaGUgcmV2aXNpb24tbGFiZWwgaW4gYW4gdW5wdWJsaXNoZWQgbW9kdWxl IGhhcyBhIHNwZWNpYWwgZm9ybSB3aGljaA0KPiBzaW1wbHkgaWRlbnRpZmllcw0KPiAgICAgICB0 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bh=lhBUTuvkCMk83ORstytRC3D6RyEJiwBtBRcvJhz64uw=; b=OrXS5LkiVuHQQUO8LwnSj7oZ2chp1brzox9oSTrPYl+yusN05Ra+TLTtlVm4Xe80q+ 4xAhf1Hvs/6LxK0zmBq/O1E9s9iBuOhHQFM61tCm3UdTTbuoxEZ+yfWiCI8/VPRConex lmjoTeEr0+E7xEcQwCMGtJHK4qkTKJaxc/HAGBHPKELmm1oAfi1va1eg8OiiBKBdGkjs uXsBBajGG8pLTtmAzzOgtREXLFGwUH+RaSMCQW2sOoIt0zobOqpxNfKsr91mWP0CNTIv HzLOyceGNzuxaOCSjxwEYA53j9ynZu/tuyBdsDYPVp+oObCbLLy8z5Ddv4tiGlN4osJ/ AKSg== X-Gm-Message-State: AGi0Pub0O7bC4EGxGHMkfXu15xMWGJUAy/lFzd/dQ+8pk6+xBzZa1G5P gzh/sODFXCSZ5mEp9tnAvgwuJXs7Bk2168heixL+uQ== X-Google-Smtp-Source: APiQypKmLsD90royaY8MVXiN1Gyv+0U8B0YbjIbBXNrpu0+kF1YcCJCnCPxA+CUTQcbbF1+MZG5hJOyqHH6Qr7cmSNg= X-Received: by 2002:a25:158a:: with SMTP id 132mr7007153ybv.145.1585851755555; Thu, 02 Apr 2020 11:22:35 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 References: <20200402.185141.761854093872914710.id@4668.se> In-Reply-To: <20200402.185141.761854093872914710.id@4668.se> From: Andy Bierman Date: Thu, 2 Apr 2020 11:22:24 -0700 Message-ID: To: =?UTF-8?Q?Martin_Bj=C3=B6rklund?= Cc: "Reshad Rahman (rrahman)" , NetMod WG , Italo Busi Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="0000000000008e86c605a252e2f0" Archived-At: Subject: Re: [netmod] versioning procedures (RFC vs. I-D) X-BeenThere: netmod@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: NETMOD WG list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 02 Apr 2020 18:22:40 -0000 --0000000000008e86c605a252e2f0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable On Thu, Apr 2, 2020 at 9:51 AM Martin Bj=C3=B6rklund wro= te: > Andy Bierman wrote: > > Hi, > > > > I agree that a revision-label could be useful in an I-D but not to > indicate > > NBC changes (because it doesn't). > > The rules need to be clear and simple with no exceptions. > > > > 1) Special version 0.x.y contains NO NBC information > > Major version =3D 0 means the module has no published version > > > > 2) First published version is 1.0.0 > > > > 3) The revision-label in an unpublished module has a special form whic= h > > simply identifies > > the source of the development and the iteration of the > > work-in-progress. > > You can't really pick the next published label until the module i= s > > ready. > > > > >From my example: > > > > draft-00: 0.1.0 > > > > draft-01: 0.2.0 > > > > draft-02: 0.3.0 > > > > RFC-1: 1.0.0 > > > > bis-draft-00: 1.0.0+1 > > If this was normal semver, it would be: > > bis-draft-00: 2.0.0-1 > bis-draft-01: 2.0.0-2 > > etc. ("+" and "-" have special meaning in semver). > > One problem though is that when the -bis work starts, it might not be > clear if the end result (published RFC) will be NBC or BC. And this > might change back and forth during development of the I-D. > > What happens if there are multiple release trains in progress? Seems more useful to base the label on the known starting point instead of the possible ending point. I think it quite clear that such a label should not be used in I-Ds. > > > Agreed > /martin > > Andy > > > > > bis-draft-02: 1.0.0+3 > > > > [repeat NBC step bis-draft-02 10 times] 1.0.0+4 .. 1.0.0+13 > > > > RFC-2: 2.0.0 (in general: 1.0.1 or 1.1.0 or 2.0.0) > > > > The BC vs. NBC distinction is not relevant for a work-in-progress. > > We have seen many times in this WG where a NBC change was made > > and then later undone. There is no value in tracking the module during > > development. > > > > > > Andy > > > > > > On Thu, Apr 2, 2020 at 7:46 AM Reshad Rahman (rrahman) < > rrahman@cisco.com> > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > *From: *'Andy Bierman' > > > *Date: *Thursday, April 2, 2020 at 10:26 AM > > > *To: *"Reshad Rahman (rrahman)" > > > *Cc: *Italo Busi , "Joe Clarke (jclarke)" < > > > jclarke@cisco.com>, NetMod WG > > > *Subject: *Re: [netmod] versioning procedures (RFC vs. I-D) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > On Thu, Apr 2, 2020 at 4:11 AM Reshad Rahman (rrahman) < > rrahman@cisco.com> > > > wrote: > > > > > > Hi, > > > > > > > > > > > > *From: *Italo Busi > > > *Date: *Thursday, April 2, 2020 at 5:06 AM > > > *To: *"Reshad Rahman (rrahman)" , 'Andy Bierman' < > > > andy@yumaworks.com>, "Joe Clarke (jclarke)" > > > *Cc: *NetMod WG > > > *Subject: *RE: [netmod] versioning procedures (RFC vs. I-D) > > > > > > > > > > > > Reshad, > > > > > > > > > > > > My doubt and, if I understand well also Andy=E2=80=99s question, is a= bout the > fact > > > that before publishing an RFC-bis with e.g., 1.1.0, we will have a se= t > of > > > Internet-Drafts updating the RFC with 1.0.0 > > > > > > > > > > > > What versions should be used in the YANG modules published in these > > > Internet-Drafts? > > > > > > > > > > > > Think about the following scenario: -00 version provide BC changes to > the > > > RFC module but the -01 version provide NBC changes to what has been > added > > > in the -00 module (thus the -01 version is BC with the RFC 1.0.0 > module but > > > NBC with the -00 version module) > > > > > > So bis 00 would be 1.1.0 (BC with RFC module). > > > > > > Bis 01 should be updated according to its relationship to the RFC > module > > > (bis 00 doesn=E2=80=99t matter anymore), when RFC bis is published it= won=E2=80=99t > have > > > the full history. > > > > > > > > > > > > Hope I correctly understood your question. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > This semver plan is not very intuitive and not sure it works. > > > > > > > > > > > > draft-00 > > > > > > > > > > > > container the-container; version 0.1.0 OK > > > > > > > > > > > > draft-01: > > > > > > container my-container; version 0.2.0; rules violate= d; > > > NBC should force 1.0.0 > > > > > > > > > > > > draft-02: > > > > > > > > > > > > container my-container { version 0.3.0; should be 1.1.0 > > > > > > leaf my-leaf { type int32; } > > > > > > } > > > > > > > > > > > > RFC-1: > > > > > > > > > > > > container my-container { version 1.0.0; should be 2.0.= 0 > > > according to NBC rules > > > > > > leaf my-leaf { type uint32; } > > > > > > } > > > > > > > > > > > > bis-draft-00: > > > > > > > > > > > > container my-container { version 1.1.0; OK > > > > > > leaf my-leaf { type uint32; } > > > > > > leaf another-leaf { type int32; } > > > > > > } > > > > > > > > > > > > bis-draft-01: > > > > > > > > > > > > container my-container { diff against RFC-1: > version > > > 1.1.0 but already used; use 1.2.0? > > > > > > leaf my-leaf { type uint32; } > > > > > > leaf another-leaf { type uint32; } > > > > > > } > > > > > > > > > > > > bis-draft-02: > > > > > > > > > > > > container example-my-container { diff against RFC-= 1: > > > version 2.0.0 but use 1.3.0 instead? > > > > > > leaf my-leaf { type uint32; } > > > > > > leaf another-leaf { type uint32; } > > > > > > } > > > > > > > > > > > > [repeat NBC step bis-draft-02 10 times.... now up to version 12.0.0 o= r > is > > > it 1.13.0? something else? > > > > > > > > > > > > RFC-2: publish draft-12 as RFC-2: now change the label from 1.13.0 = to > > > 2.0.0? or leave it 12.0.0? > > > > > > > > > > > > IMO it is very confusing that the stated rules are so inconsistent an= d > > > are violated so many ways. > > > > > > There should be no revision-label at all in Internet Drafts because > these > > > documents are unpublished. > > > > > > They should only be added to the RFC version. > > > > > > > > > > > > The semver procedures are not intended to work for unpublished module= s > > > that are only > > > > > > meant for review, not for implementation. The revision-label provides > only > > > noise in Internet Drafts. > > > > > > I think it=E2=80=99s useful to have a revision label in a draft= because > it > > > indicates nature of changes (BC v/s NBC) compared to the previous > published > > > revision (RFC). > > > > > > But you are absolutely right that setting the version based on change= s > > > with the previous draft revision is useless and confusing. > > > > > > > > > > > > Regards, > > > > > > Reshad. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Regards, > > > > > > Reshad. > > > > > > > > > > > > Thanks, Italo > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Andy > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > *Italo Busi* > > > > > > Principal Optical Transport Network Research Engineer > > > > > > Huawei Technologies Co., Ltd. > > > > > > Tel : +39 345 4721946 > > > > > > Email : italo.busi@huawei.com > > > > > > > > > > > > This e-mail and its attachments contain confidential information from > > > HUAWEI, which is intended only for the person or entity whose address > is > > > listed above. Any use of the information contained herein in any way > > > (including, but not limited to, total or partial disclosure, > reproduction, > > > or dissemination) by persons other than the intended recipient(s) is > > > prohibited. If you receive this e-mail in error, please notify the > sender > > > by phone or email immediately and delete it! > > > > > > > > > > > > *From:* Reshad Rahman (rrahman) [mailto:rrahman@cisco.com] > > > *Sent:* mercoled=C3=AC 1 aprile 2020 20:13 > > > *To:* Andy Bierman ; Joe Clarke (jclarke) < > > > jclarke@cisco.com> > > > *Cc:* NetMod WG > > > *Subject:* Re: [netmod] versioning procedures (RFC vs. I-D) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > *From: *netmod on behalf of 'Andy Bierman' = < > > > andy@yumaworks.com> > > > *Date: *Wednesday, April 1, 2020 at 2:07 PM > > > *To: *"Joe Clarke (jclarke)" > > > *Cc: *NetMod WG > > > *Subject: *Re: [netmod] versioning procedures (RFC vs. I-D) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > On Wed, Apr 1, 2020 at 10:39 AM Joe Clarke (jclarke) < > jclarke@cisco.com> > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > On Apr 1, 2020, at 13:28, Andy Bierman wrote: > > > > > > > > Hi, > > > > > > > > I just want to confirm that all the proposed documentation procedur= es > > > > using new extensions are limited in scope to published modules only= , > > > > and not applied to unpublished modules (terms defined in RFC 8407). > > > > > > > > IMO it would be harmful to module usability to assign > revision-labels or > > > > include revision-related extensions in unpublished modules (e.g., > > > Internet Drafts). > > > > Consider how cluttered and confusing the client-server modules woul= d > be > > > > if the 50+ NBC changes and versions were tracked through all the > I-Ds. > > > > > > > > For IETF modules, the first usage of the revision-label > > > > should be in the initial RFC, and be set to 1.0.0. > > > > > > > > If the RFC is ever republished then one can expect to find an updat= ed > > > > revision-label and possibly extensions tracking NBC changes. > > > > > > The semver scheme allocates a major version of 0 for pre-releases whe= re > > > the BC/NBC rules do not apply. I agree that a first official RFC > release > > > should be 1.0.0 (from a semver revision-label standpoint). From a > design > > > team standpoint, I know we mentioned the 0 versioning early on, but I > don=E2=80=99t > > > think we spent much time talking about modules under development > overall. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > IMO it is confusing to ignore the semver rules for the special 0.x.y > > > releases. > > > > > > There are many NBC changes made at this point which are treated as > minor > > > or patch changes. > > > > > > The procedure is really broken once you consider a WG developing any > > > RFC-bis module. > > > > > > Now the major version is not 0 and all updates look like real release= s. > > > > > > I don=E2=80=99t think that=E2=80=99s needed. Initial module in R= FC has 1.0.0, > module > > > in (released) RFC-bis can go to 1.0.1, 1.1.0 or 2.0.0 depending on th= e > > > change. > > > > > > > > > > > > Regards, > > > > > > Reshad. > > > > > > > > > > > > My take would align to yours that we wouldn=E2=80=99t clutter a modul= e with > > > development NBC tracking. > > > > > > Joe > > > > > > > > > > > > Andy > > > > > > > > > > > > > --0000000000008e86c605a252e2f0 Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable


=
On Thu, Apr 2, 2020 at 9:51 AM Martin= Bj=C3=B6rklund <mbj+ietf@4668.se<= /a>> wrote:
A= ndy Bierman <and= y@yumaworks.com> wrote:
> Hi,
>
> I agree that a revision-label could be useful in an I-D but not to ind= icate
> NBC changes (because it doesn't).
> The rules need to be clear and simple with no exceptions.
>
>=C2=A0 1) Special version 0.x.y contains NO NBC information
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 Major version =3D 0 means the module has no publis= hed version
>
>=C2=A0 2) First published version is 1.0.0
>
>=C2=A0 3) The revision-label in an unpublished module has a special for= m which
> simply identifies
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0the source of the development and the iterat= ion of the
> work-in-progress.
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0You can't really pick the next published= label until the module is
> ready.
>
> >From my example:
>
> draft-00:=C2=A0 =C2=A00.1.0
>
> draft-01:=C2=A0 =C2=A00.2.0
>
> draft-02:=C2=A0 =C2=A00.3.0
>
> RFC-1:=C2=A0 =C2=A0 1.0.0
>
> bis-draft-00:=C2=A0 =C2=A01.0.0+1

If this was normal semver, it would be:

bis-draft-00:=C2=A0 =C2=A02.0.0-1
bis-draft-01:=C2=A0 =C2=A02.0.0-2

etc.=C2=A0 ("+" and "-" have special meaning in semver)= .

One problem though is that when the -bis work starts, it might not be
clear if the end result (published RFC) will be NBC or BC.=C2=A0 And this might change back and forth during development of the I-D.


What happens if there are multiple rel= ease trains in progress?
Seems more useful to base the label on t= he known starting point
instead of the possible ending point.


I think it quite clear that such a label should not be used in I-Ds.



Agreed

=C2=A0=
/martin



Andy
=C2=A0

>
> bis-draft-02:=C2=A0 =C2=A01.0.0+3
>
> [repeat NBC step bis-draft-02 10 times]=C2=A0 1.0.0+4 .. 1.0.0+13
>
> RFC-2:=C2=A0 2.0.0=C2=A0 =C2=A0(in general: 1.0.1 or 1.1.0 or 2.0.0) >
> The BC vs. NBC distinction is not relevant for a work-in-progress.
> We have seen many times in this WG where a NBC change was made
> and then later undone.=C2=A0 There is no value in tracking the module = during
> development.
>
>
> Andy
>
>
> On Thu, Apr 2, 2020 at 7:46 AM Reshad Rahman (rrahman) <rrahman@cisco.com>
> wrote:
>
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > *From: *'Andy Bierman' <andy@yumaworks.com>
> > *Date: *Thursday, April 2, 2020 at 10:26 AM
> > *To: *"Reshad Rahman (rrahman)" <rrahman@cisco.com>
> > *Cc: *Italo Busi <Italo.Busi@huawei.com>, "Joe Clarke (jclarke)&qu= ot; <
> > jclarke@ci= sco.com>, NetMod WG <netmod@ietf.org>
> > *Subject: *Re: [netmod] versioning procedures (RFC vs. I-D)
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > On Thu, Apr 2, 2020 at 4:11 AM Reshad Rahman (rrahman) <rrahman@cisco.com><= br> > > wrote:
> >
> > Hi,
> >
> >
> >
> > *From: *Italo Busi <Italo.Busi@huawei.com>
> > *Date: *Thursday, April 2, 2020 at 5:06 AM
> > *To: *"Reshad Rahman (rrahman)" <rrahman@cisco.com>, 'Andy Bi= erman' <
> > andy@yuma= works.com>, "Joe Clarke (jclarke)" <jclarke@cisco.com>
> > *Cc: *NetMod WG <netmod@ietf.org>
> > *Subject: *RE: [netmod] versioning procedures (RFC vs. I-D)
> >
> >
> >
> > Reshad,
> >
> >
> >
> > My doubt and, if I understand well also Andy=E2=80=99s question, = is about the fact
> > that before publishing an RFC-bis with e.g., 1.1.0, we will have = a set of
> > Internet-Drafts updating the RFC with 1.0.0
> >
> >
> >
> > What versions should be used in the YANG modules published in the= se
> > Internet-Drafts?
> >
> >
> >
> > Think about the following scenario: -00 version provide BC change= s to the
> > RFC module but the -01 version provide NBC changes to what has be= en added
> > in the -00 module (thus the -01 version is BC with the RFC 1.0.0 = module but
> > NBC with the -00 version module)
> >
> > <RR> So bis 00 would be 1.1.0 (BC with RFC module).
> >
> > Bis 01 should be updated according to its relationship to the RFC= module
> > (bis 00 doesn=E2=80=99t matter anymore), when RFC bis is publishe= d it won=E2=80=99t have
> > the full history.
> >
> >
> >
> > Hope I correctly understood your question.
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > This semver plan is not very intuitive and not sure it works.
> >
> >
> >
> > draft-00
> >
> >
> >
> >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 container the-container;=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 = =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0version 0.1.0=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 OK
> >
> >
> >
> > draft-01:
> >
> >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 container my-container;=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 = =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0version 0.2.0;=C2=A0 =C2=A0rules violated;
> > NBC should force 1.0.0
> >
> >
> >
> > draft-02:
> >
> >
> >
> >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0container my-container {=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 = =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0version 0.3.0; should be 1.1.0
> >
> >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0leaf my-leaf { type int32; }
> >
> >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0}
> >
> >
> >
> > RFC-1:
> >
> >
> >
> >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0container my-container {=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 = =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0version 1.0.0;=C2=A0 should be 2.0.0
> > according to NBC rules
> >
> >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0leaf my-leaf { type uint32; } > >
> >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0}
> >
> >
> >
> > bis-draft-00:
> >
> >
> >
> >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 container my-container {=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 = =C2=A0 =C2=A0version 1.1.0; OK
> >
> >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0leaf my-leaf { type uint32; } > >
> >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0leaf another-leaf { type int32; = }
> >
> >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0}
> >
> >
> >
> > bis-draft-01:
> >
> >
> >
> >=C2=A0 =C2=A0container my-container {=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 = =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 diff against RFC-1:=C2=A0 version
> > 1.1.0 but already used; use 1.2.0?
> >
> >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0leaf my-leaf { type uint32; } > >
> >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0leaf another-leaf { type uint32;= }
> >
> >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0}
> >
> >
> >
> > bis-draft-02:
> >
> >
> >
> >=C2=A0 =C2=A0container example-my-container {=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 = =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 diff against RFC-1:
> > version 2.0.0 but use 1.3.0 instead?
> >
> >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0leaf my-leaf { type uint32; } > >
> >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0leaf another-leaf { type uint32;= }
> >
> >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0}
> >
> >
> >
> > [repeat NBC step bis-draft-02 10 times.... now up to version 12.0= .0 or is
> > it 1.13.0? something else?
> >
> >
> >
> > RFC-2:=C2=A0 =C2=A0publish draft-12 as RFC-2: now change the labe= l from 1.13.0 to
> > 2.0.0? or leave it 12.0.0?
> >
> >
> >
> > IMO it is very confusing that the stated rules are so inconsisten= t and
> > are violated so many ways.
> >
> > There should be no revision-label at all in Internet Drafts becau= se these
> > documents are unpublished.
> >
> > They should only be added to the RFC version.
> >
> >
> >
> > The semver procedures are not intended to work for unpublished mo= dules
> > that are only
> >
> > meant for review, not for implementation. The revision-label prov= ides only
> > noise in Internet Drafts.
> >
> > <RR2> I think it=E2=80=99s useful to have a revision label = in a draft because it
> > indicates nature of changes (BC v/s NBC) compared to the previous= published
> > revision (RFC).
> >
> > But you are absolutely right that setting the version based on ch= anges
> > with the previous draft revision is useless and confusing.
> >
> >
> >
> > Regards,
> >
> > Reshad.
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > Regards,
> >
> > Reshad.
> >
> >
> >
> > Thanks, Italo
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > Andy
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > *Italo Busi*
> >
> > Principal Optical Transport Network Research Engineer
> >
> > Huawei Technologies Co., Ltd.
> >
> > Tel : +39 345 4721946
> >
> > Email : italo.busi@huawei.com
> >
> >
> >
> > This e-mail and its attachments contain confidential information = from
> > HUAWEI, which is intended only for the person or entity whose add= ress is
> > listed above. Any use of the information contained herein in any = way
> > (including, but not limited to, total or partial disclosure, repr= oduction,
> > or dissemination) by persons other than the intended recipient(s)= is
> > prohibited. If you receive this e-mail in error, please notify th= e sender
> > by phone or email immediately and delete it!
> >
> >
> >
> > *From:* Reshad Rahman (rrahman) [mailto:rrahman@cisco.com]
> > *Sent:* mercoled=C3=AC 1 aprile 2020 20:13
> > *To:* Andy Bierman <andy@yumaworks.com>; Joe Clarke (jclarke) <
> > jclarke@ci= sco.com>
> > *Cc:* NetMod WG <netmod@ietf.org>
> > *Subject:* Re: [netmod] versioning procedures (RFC vs. I-D)
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > *From: *netmod <netmod-bounces@ietf.org> on behalf of 'Andy Bierm= an' <
> > andy@yuma= works.com>
> > *Date: *Wednesday, April 1, 2020 at 2:07 PM
> > *To: *"Joe Clarke (jclarke)" <jclarke@cisco.com>
> > *Cc: *NetMod WG <netmod@ietf.org>
> > *Subject: *Re: [netmod] versioning procedures (RFC vs. I-D)
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > On Wed, Apr 1, 2020 at 10:39 AM Joe Clarke (jclarke) <jclarke@cisco.com> > > wrote:
> >
> >
> >
> > > On Apr 1, 2020, at 13:28, Andy Bierman <andy@yumaworks.com> wrote: > > >
> > > Hi,
> > >
> > > I just want to confirm that all the proposed documentation p= rocedures
> > > using new extensions are limited in scope to published modul= es only,
> > > and not applied to unpublished modules (terms defined in RFC= 8407).
> > >
> > > IMO it would be harmful to module usability to assign revisi= on-labels or
> > > include revision-related extensions in unpublished modules (= e.g.,
> > Internet Drafts).
> > > Consider how cluttered and confusing the client-server modul= es would be
> > > if the 50+ NBC changes and versions were tracked through all= the I-Ds.
> > >
> > > For IETF modules, the first usage of the revision-label
> > > should be in the initial RFC, and be set to 1.0.0.
> > >
> > > If the RFC is ever republished then one can expect to find a= n updated
> > > revision-label and possibly extensions tracking NBC changes.=
> >
> > The semver scheme allocates a major version of 0 for pre-releases= where
> > the BC/NBC rules do not apply.=C2=A0 I agree that a first officia= l RFC release
> > should be 1.0.0 (from a semver revision-label standpoint).=C2=A0 = >From a design
> > team standpoint, I know we mentioned the 0 versioning early on, b= ut I don=E2=80=99t
> > think we spent much time talking about modules under development = overall.
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > IMO it is confusing to ignore the semver rules for the special 0.= x.y
> > releases.
> >
> > There are many NBC changes made at this point which are treated a= s minor
> > or patch changes.
> >
> > The procedure is really broken once you consider a WG developing = any
> > RFC-bis module.
> >
> > Now the major version is not 0 and all updates look like real rel= eases.
> >
> > <RR> I don=E2=80=99t think that=E2=80=99s needed. Initial m= odule in RFC has 1.0.0, module
> > in (released) RFC-bis can go to 1.0.1, 1.1.0 or 2.0.0 depending o= n the
> > change.
> >
> >
> >
> > Regards,
> >
> > Reshad.
> >
> >
> >
> > My take would align to yours that we wouldn=E2=80=99t clutter a m= odule with
> > development NBC tracking.
> >
> > Joe
> >
> >
> >
> > Andy
> >
> >
> >
> >
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WOW64; rv:60.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/60.3.1 MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: <15C8F1D1-B560-4D52-8D77-377C6B1C0518@tzi.org> Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="------------823D84615BD61DC59E85074A" Content-Language: en-US X-AntiAbuse: This header was added to track abuse, please include it with any abuse report X-AntiAbuse: Primary Hostname - box313.bluehost.com X-AntiAbuse: Original Domain - ietf.org X-AntiAbuse: Originator/Caller UID/GID - [47 12] / [47 12] X-AntiAbuse: Sender Address Domain - labn.net X-BWhitelist: no X-Source-IP: 127.0.0.1 X-Source-L: Yes X-Exim-ID: 1jK5fE-001xkg-4D X-Source: X-Source-Args: X-Source-Dir: X-Source-Sender: ([IPv6:::1]) [127.0.0.1]:35861 X-Source-Auth: lberger@labn.net X-Email-Count: 6 X-Source-Cap: bGFibm1vYmk7bGFibm1vYmk7Ym94MzEzLmJsdWVob3N0LmNvbQ== X-Local-Domain: yes Archived-At: Subject: [netmod] =?utf-8?q?Fwd=3A__=F0=9F=94=94_WG_Last_Call_of_CORECONF?= =?utf-8?q?_drafts=3A_draft-ietf-core-yang-cbor-12=2C_-sid-11=2C_-comi-09?= =?utf-8?q?=2C_-yang-library-01?= X-BeenThere: netmod@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: NETMOD WG list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 02 Apr 2020 19:38:20 -0000 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --------------823D84615BD61DC59E85074A Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Just a reminder that reviews are being solicited on these documents - particularly if you care anout encoding and transport... -------- Forwarded Message -------- Subject: [netmod] 🔔 WG Last Call of CORECONF drafts: draft-ietf-core-yang-cbor-12, -sid-11, -comi-09, -yang-library-01 Date: Mon, 9 Mar 2020 14:04:32 +0100 From: Carsten Bormann Reply-To: core@ietf.org WG To: core CC: netmod@ietf.org It took us a long time to get the four CORECONF drafts in sync, but now we are ready for WGLC. This starts a working group last call for — draft-ietf-core-yang-cbor-12 — draft-ietf-core-sid-11 — draft-ietf-core-comi-09 — draft-ietf-core-yang-library-01 ending on 24:00 UTC on Tuesday, March 31, 2020. (This includes some extra time for the IETF week and for cross-WG coordination.) This WGLC is copied to the netmod WG mailing list; please do have a look at these drafts as they are slated to become a part of the greater YANG/NETCONF/RESTCONF family. We intend the discussion to be on the CoRE mailing list, but if you find a fundamental issue with YANG or RESTCONF, feel free to discuss that on netmod instead. Please start a new email thread for each major issue that will need discussion and make sure the subject line includes the draft name and some sort of name for the issue. (Minor issues such as typos can also be sent to the authors.) If you read the draft and think it looks fine, please send a one line email to the list or to the chairs letting us know that so we can get a feel of how broad the review has been. (To reviewers and authors:) If you are aware of any patent claims that might apply to systems that implement these drafts, please review BCP 78 and BCP 79 and make any appropriate IPR declaration before the last-call ends. If you are not sure whether you need to make a declaration or not, please talk to the chairs and we will help. Grüße, Carsten _______________________________________________ netmod mailing list netmod@ietf.org https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/netmod --------------823D84615BD61DC59E85074A Content-Type: text/html; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit

Just a reminder that reviews are being solicited on these documents - particularly if you care anout encoding and transport...


-------- Forwarded Message --------
Subject: [netmod] 🔔 WG Last Call of CORECONF drafts: draft-ietf-core-yang-cbor-12, -sid-11, -comi-09, -yang-library-01
Date: Mon, 9 Mar 2020 14:04:32 +0100
From: Carsten Bormann <cabo@tzi.org>
Reply-To: core@ietf.org WG <core@ietf.org>
To: core <core@ietf.org>
CC: netmod@ietf.org


It took us a long time to get the four CORECONF drafts in sync, but now we are ready for WGLC.

This starts a working group last call for
— draft-ietf-core-yang-cbor-12
— draft-ietf-core-sid-11
— draft-ietf-core-comi-09
— draft-ietf-core-yang-library-01

ending on

24:00 UTC on Tuesday, March 31, 2020.

(This includes some extra time for the IETF week and for cross-WG
coordination.)

This WGLC is copied to the netmod WG mailing list; please do have a look at these drafts as they are slated to become a part of the greater
YANG/NETCONF/RESTCONF family. We intend the discussion to be on the
CoRE mailing list, but if you find a fundamental issue with YANG or RESTCONF, feel free to discuss that on netmod instead.

Please start a new email thread for each major issue that will need
discussion and make sure the subject line includes the draft name and
some sort of name for the issue. (Minor issues such as typos can also
be sent to the authors.)

If you read the draft and think it looks fine, please send a one line email to the list or to the chairs letting us know that so we can get a feel of how broad the review has been.

(To reviewers and authors:) If you are aware of any patent claims that
might apply to systems that implement these drafts, please review BCP 78
and BCP 79 and make any appropriate IPR declaration before the last-call
ends. If you are not sure whether you need to make a declaration or not, please talk to the chairs and we will help.

Grüße, Carsten

_______________________________________________
netmod mailing list
netmod@ietf.org
https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/netmod
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These are the draft minutes from todays session.=C2=A0

they are still editable on

Etherpad:=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2= =A0=C2=A0https://etherpad.ie= tf.org/p/notes-ietf-107-netmod


> Available Post Session:
>=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 Recording:=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 WebEx r= ecording be made available after the meeting.
>=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 Jabber Logs:=C2=A0=C2=A0 https:= //www.ietf.org/jabber/logs/netmod
>=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 Etherpad:=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 https://etherpad.ietf.org/p/notes-ietf-107-n= etmod
>=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 Slides:=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0= =C2=A0 https://datatracker.ietf.or= g/meeting/interim-2020-netmod-01/session/netmod
>
>=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 =
> Introduction
>
>=C2=A0=C2=A0 TITLE: Session Intro & WG Status
>=C2=A0=C2=A0 PRESENTER: Chairs
>

introduction
Design team acknowledgements
document status. since last meeting

>
> Adopted items:
>
>=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 TITLE: Recently Adopted YANG Module Versio= ning Drafts
>=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 PRESENTER: Authors
>=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 DRAFT(s)
>=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 https://tools.ietf.org= /html/draft-ietf-netmod-yang-module-versioning-00
>=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 https://tools.ietf.org/html/dra= ft-ietf-netmod-yang-packages-00
>=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 https://tools.ietf.org= /html/draft-ietf-netmod-yang-schema-comparison-00
>=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft= -ietf-netmod-yang-semver-00
>=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 https://tools.ietf.org/html/dr= aft-ietf-netmod-yang-solutions-00
>=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 https://tools.ietf.org/htm= l/draft-ietf-netmod-yang-ver-selection-00
>=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 https://tools.ietf.org/h= tml/draft-ietf-netmod-yang-versioning-reqs-02

---

Robert Wilton presenting the yang version history overview

Kent -=C2=A0 we likely=C2=A0 need to get the sense of the room to= take to the list
Robert - requirements doucment can be held until we are ready to progress the solution since the other documents will reference it normally
Joe clarke - requirements document is stable, wglc it now and wait on the solution overview
Itallo busi - is the solution already supported by YANG tools? Can other WG use this solution in the YANG modules they develop?<= br> Robert - the schema solution may be already supported by pyang while packages and versioning is not yet supported
Robert - design team is officially complete
authors will continue to meet regularly=C2=A0 to work on these documents, those meetings will be open to all
prioritize the delivery of versioning semver packages
Lou - so long as the base set of drafts doesn't change the other two drafts completely but staging them

---

Reshad presenting yang module versioning

Kent - currently this is aimed at proposed standard it could be experiemental we will need to come to consesnsus on this
Joe clarke - I think you're concerned about semver not module versioning.
main issues from the adoption call
Robert - one option is allow=C2=A0 multiple versioning schemes, o= ne problem with a single YANG statement is how to define the separate version schemes.=C2=A0 Perhaps each version scheme defin= es its own extension label.
Lou - reminder that we asked the question when the documents were split,that at some point we have to decide if need to allow for more than one [versioning format]
Jason Stern - it is useful to have a prefered scheme you don't want to have to gues that the 1.2.3 pattern means something specific
Reshad - further dicussion needed
Martin - Discussion on whether revision 1.2.3 is somewhat dependent on whether YANG semver ends up being experimental rather than proposed standard.
Lou - The decision as to whether a doc should be experimental or standards track can often be revisited at WG LC time.
Tim Carey - It is much easier for tooling if they can easily understand what scheme is being used.
Balazs - We should explicitly state the used schema for revision label.
Reshad - presenting again slide 6/7 issues
Balazs: status-description is good for the same reason a seperate reference, contact, organization statement is used. We could put all that into description too, but it would make it messier.

---

Joe Clarke presenting yang semver

Carsten Bormann - maybe not a good Idea to use lower and upper case m and use a different latter to differentiate
Joe - worth dicussing on list to get a record given I don't think it has been dicussed before
Sue Hares - I'm not sure we're going to get modules for some bgp features that won't have non-backward compatible features.
Joe - if you need to a do a bgp2.0 semver would do that
Lou - introduicing this may make non-backwards-changes more likely, and we already have examples of non-backwards-compatible changes in IETF
Balazas - some other orgzations don't take backwards compatibility so seriously
Italo - even if all the updates are linear and BC, there is still the possibility to have a 1.0.0 version in IESG process and a 1.1.0 version in WG process
Joe - use use the lineage of the module and bc nbc tags,
Charles Eckel - would make an nbc change but then bump the major version
Jason Sterne - strong attempt to not use the m in ietf modules. at least this modified semver gives us a machanism to show that=C2= =A0 happen.
Robert - semver allows the addition of descriptions after major revisions, this could be used for bis documents that haven't been republished as new RFCs
Martin Mjorklund - module versioning draft makes this possible Joe - moving on to github issues #48

---

Bo wu=C2=A0 -=C2=A0 presenting versioned yang schema

Jason Sterne design team has already taken an hour we should abreviate or push to the end the remaining two dt docs
Lou - wouldlike feedback from the working group comments to the list.

Jason - yang schema selection

Kent - a similar dicussion will take place in the netconf meeting on monday

Lou - chairs will talk on how best to coordinate between groups.<= br>
---

Reshad - presenting yang schema comparison

>
> Not-Yet-Adopted items:
>
>=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 TITLE: A YANG Data model for ECA Policy Ma= nagement
>=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 PRESENTER:=C2=A0 Authors
>=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 DRAFT(s)
>=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-w= wx-netmod-event-yang-06

---

Qin Wu presenting a yang policy model for eca policy management.<= br>
Joel - 06 working group adaption revealed some issues that we should address before considering adoption again igor / andy issues.

>=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 TITLE: YANG Data Node Self Explanation Tag= s
>=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 PRESENTER: Tao,Ran
>=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 DRAFT(s)
>=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 https://tools.ietf.org/html/dra= ft-tao-netmod-yang-node-tags-01

---

Qin Wu presenting

Lou -=C2=A0 this is the normal point where we would ask for a hum= will do it on the list

>
>=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 TITLE: 3GPP's UML to YANG Object Module Ma= pping
>=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 PRESENTER: Balazs Lengyel
>=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 DRAFT(s)
>=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 <none>

---

Balazas presenting

>=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 TITLE: CORECONF
>=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 PRESENTER: Carsten Bormann
>=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 DRAFT(s)
>=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-iet= f-core-yang-cbor-12
>=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 https://= tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-core-sid-11
>=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 https:/= /tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-core-comi-09
>=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-= ietf-core-yang-library-01

---

Carsten Bormann presenting

Virtual Bluesheet -- please add your name and affiliation

=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 NAME=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0= =C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2= =A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 AFFILIATION
Warren Kumari Google
Kent Watsen=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0= =C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2= =A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 Watsen Networks
Lou Berger=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2= =A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0= =C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 LabN Consulting, L= LC
Rob Wilton=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2= =A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0= =C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 Cisco
Jason Sterne=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0= =C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2= =A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 Nokia
Carsten Bormann, TZI
Guangying zheng=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2= =A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 Huawei Martin Bj=C3=B6rklund
Bo Wu=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0= =C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2= =A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 Hua= wei
Dhruv Dhody=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0= =C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2= =A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 Huawei-India
Ivaylo Petrov=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0= =C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2= =A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 Acklio
Jan Lindblad=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0= =C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2= =A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 Cisco
Arunprabhu Kandasamy=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2= =A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 Acklio
Sergio Belotti=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2= =A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0= =C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 NOKIA
Balazs Lengyel=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 Ericsson
Yoshifumi Atarashi=C2=A0=C2=A0 =E3=80=80=E3=80=80=E3=80=80Alaxala=
Tim Carey, Nokia
Joe Clarke=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2= =A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0= =C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 Cisco
Charles Eckel,=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 Cisco
Ray Atarashi=C2=A0=C2=A0 =E3=80=80=E3=80=80=E3=80=80=E3=80=80=E3=80= =80=E3=80=80=E3=80=80IIJ-II
William Lupton=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2= =A0 Broadband Forum
Joel Jaeggli Fastly
Yuji Tochio=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0= =C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2= =A0 Fujitsu
Susan Hares=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 Huawei
Reshad Rahman=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0= =C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 Cisco
Italo Busi=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2= =A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0= =C2=A0 Huawei
Xufeng Liu=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2= =A0=C2=A0 Volta Networks
David Sinicrope Ericsson
Qin Wu=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 Huawei
Gabriele Galimberti Cisco
Peng Liu=C2=A0=C2=A0 China Mobile

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Original Text ------------- For example, consider the following definition: leaf lxiv { type decimal64 { fraction-digits 18; } must ". <= 10"; } An instance of the "lxiv" leaf having the value of 10.0000000000000001 will then successfully pass validation. Corrected Text -------------- For example, consider the following definition: leaf lxiv { type decimal64 { fraction-digits 18; } must ". <= 9"; } An instance of the "lxiv" leaf having the value of 9.0000000000000001 will then successfully pass validation. Notes ----- Value 10.0000000000000001 is not a valid decimal64 value with 18 fraction digits as per Section 9.3.4. Instructions: ------------- This erratum is currently posted as "Reported". If necessary, please use "Reply All" to discuss whether it should be verified or rejected. When a decision is reached, the verifying party can log in to change the status and edit the report, if necessary. -------------------------------------- RFC7950 (draft-ietf-netmod-rfc6020bis-14) -------------------------------------- Title : The YANG 1.1 Data Modeling Language Publication Date : August 2016 Author(s) : M. Bjorklund, Ed. Category : PROPOSED STANDARD Source : Network Modeling Area : Operations and Management Stream : IETF Verifying Party : IESG From nobody Fri Apr 3 03:41:58 2020 Return-Path: X-Original-To: netmod@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: netmod@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2B5C53A0EDF for ; Fri, 3 Apr 2020 03:41:55 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -0.101 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-0.101 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_EF=-0.1, PDS_NAKED_TO_NUMERO=1.999, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=no autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=4668.se header.b=ai9UvKGN; dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=messagingengine.com header.b=qwYJa9Zn Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id XeNdSXpmNEVN for ; 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Fri, 3 Apr 2020 06:41:36 -0400 (EDT) Date: Fri, 03 Apr 2020 12:41:35 +0200 (CEST) Message-Id: <20200403.124135.2126157523887425415.id@4668.se> To: rfc-editor@rfc-editor.org Cc: warren@kumari.net, rwilton@cisco.com, joelja@bogus.com, kent+ietf@watsen.net, lberger@labn.net, netmod@ietf.org From: Martin =?iso-8859-1?Q?Bj=F6rklund?= In-Reply-To: <20200403090719.1BC15F40721@rfc-editor.org> References: <20200403090719.1BC15F40721@rfc-editor.org> X-Mailer: Mew version 6.8 on Emacs 25.2 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: Text/Plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Archived-At: Subject: Re: [netmod] [Technical Errata Reported] RFC7950 (6078) X-BeenThere: netmod@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: NETMOD WG list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 03 Apr 2020 10:41:56 -0000 Hi, This errata is correct and should be accepted. /martin RFC Errata System wrote: > The following errata report has been submitted for RFC7950, > "The YANG 1.1 Data Modeling Language". > > -------------------------------------- > You may review the report below and at: > https://www.rfc-editor.org/errata/eid6078 > > -------------------------------------- > Type: Technical > Reported by: Michal Vasko > > Section: 6.4. > > Original Text > ------------- > For example, consider the following definition: > > leaf lxiv { > type decimal64 { > fraction-digits 18; > } > must ". <= 10"; > } > > An instance of the "lxiv" leaf having the value of > 10.0000000000000001 will then successfully pass validation. > > Corrected Text > -------------- > For example, consider the following definition: > > leaf lxiv { > type decimal64 { > fraction-digits 18; > } > must ". <= 9"; > } > > An instance of the "lxiv" leaf having the value of > 9.0000000000000001 will then successfully pass validation. > > Notes > ----- > Value 10.0000000000000001 is not a valid decimal64 value with 18 fraction digits as per Section 9.3.4. > > Instructions: > ------------- > This erratum is currently posted as "Reported". If necessary, please > use "Reply All" to discuss whether it should be verified or > rejected. When a decision is reached, the verifying party > can log in to change the status and edit the report, if necessary. > > -------------------------------------- > RFC7950 (draft-ietf-netmod-rfc6020bis-14) > -------------------------------------- > Title : The YANG 1.1 Data Modeling Language > Publication Date : August 2016 > Author(s) : M. Bjorklund, Ed. > Category : PROPOSED STANDARD > Source : Network Modeling > Area : Operations and Management > Stream : IETF > Verifying Party : IESG > > _______________________________________________ > netmod mailing list > netmod@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/netmod From nobody Fri Apr 3 04:00:38 2020 Return-Path: X-Original-To: netmod@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: netmod@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id BEA1E3A0FA0 for ; Fri, 3 Apr 2020 04:00:35 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -9.589 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-9.589 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_EF=-0.1, T_SPF_TEMPERROR=0.01, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001, USER_IN_DEF_DKIM_WL=-7.5] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (1024-bit key) header.d=cisco.com header.b=FVQMEdEf; 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Fri, 3 Apr 2020 11:00:00 +0000 From: "Rob Wilton (rwilton)" To: =?iso-8859-1?Q?Martin_Bj=F6rklund?= , "rfc-editor@rfc-editor.org" CC: "warren@kumari.net" , "joelja@bogus.com" , "kent+ietf@watsen.net" , "lberger@labn.net" , "netmod@ietf.org" Thread-Topic: [netmod] [Technical Errata Reported] RFC7950 (6078) Thread-Index: AQHWCZdqQNepC6eoAESfGRN7/Eiq5KhnNbWAgAAEg2A= Date: Fri, 3 Apr 2020 11:00:00 +0000 Message-ID: References: <20200403090719.1BC15F40721@rfc-editor.org> <20200403.124135.2126157523887425415.id@4668.se> In-Reply-To: <20200403.124135.2126157523887425415.id@4668.se> Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: authentication-results: spf=none (sender IP is ) smtp.mailfrom=rwilton@cisco.com; x-originating-ip: [82.15.79.32] x-ms-publictraffictype: Email x-ms-office365-filtering-correlation-id: 2bd371b5-0ce0-46ec-5e0f-08d7d7be27c1 x-ms-traffictypediagnostic: MN2PR11MB4631: x-microsoft-antispam-prvs: x-ms-oob-tlc-oobclassifiers: OLM:10000; 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charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable MIME-Version: 1.0 X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-Network-Message-Id: 2bd371b5-0ce0-46ec-5e0f-08d7d7be27c1 X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-originalarrivaltime: 03 Apr 2020 11:00:00.5737 (UTC) X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-fromentityheader: Hosted X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-id: 5ae1af62-9505-4097-a69a-c1553ef7840e X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-mailboxtype: HOSTED X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-userprincipalname: pvtJg6DwEAM172Oi9F9xUniHrzkqnbCG35/OuOt+HVcabstAx91EsQmw/+M0eVZx7++FxBygOnUs4GiOVbD22w== X-MS-Exchange-Transport-CrossTenantHeadersStamped: MN2PR11MB4631 X-OriginatorOrg: cisco.com X-Outbound-SMTP-Client: 173.37.102.14, xch-rcd-004.cisco.com X-Outbound-Node: rcdn-core-6.cisco.com Archived-At: Subject: Re: [netmod] [Technical Errata Reported] RFC7950 (6078) X-BeenThere: netmod@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: NETMOD WG list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 03 Apr 2020 11:00:36 -0000 Martin, Thanks for confirming. Regards, Rob > -----Original Message----- > From: Martin Bj=F6rklund > Sent: 03 April 2020 11:42 > To: rfc-editor@rfc-editor.org > Cc: warren@kumari.net; Rob Wilton (rwilton) ; > joelja@bogus.com; kent+ietf@watsen.net; lberger@labn.net; netmod@ietf.org > Subject: Re: [netmod] [Technical Errata Reported] RFC7950 (6078) >=20 > Hi, >=20 > This errata is correct and should be accepted. >=20 >=20 > /martin >=20 >=20 > RFC Errata System wrote: > > The following errata report has been submitted for RFC7950, "The YANG > > 1.1 Data Modeling Language". > > > > -------------------------------------- > > You may review the report below and at: > > https://www.rfc-editor.org/errata/eid6078 > > > > -------------------------------------- > > Type: Technical > > Reported by: Michal Vasko > > > > Section: 6.4. > > > > Original Text > > ------------- > > For example, consider the following definition: > > > > leaf lxiv { > > type decimal64 { > > fraction-digits 18; > > } > > must ". <=3D 10"; > > } > > > > An instance of the "lxiv" leaf having the value of > > 10.0000000000000001 will then successfully pass validation. > > > > Corrected Text > > -------------- > > For example, consider the following definition: > > > > leaf lxiv { > > type decimal64 { > > fraction-digits 18; > > } > > must ". <=3D 9"; > > } > > > > An instance of the "lxiv" leaf having the value of > > 9.0000000000000001 will then successfully pass validation. > > > > Notes > > ----- > > Value 10.0000000000000001 is not a valid decimal64 value with 18 > fraction digits as per Section 9.3.4. > > > > Instructions: > > ------------- > > This erratum is currently posted as "Reported". If necessary, please > > use "Reply All" to discuss whether it should be verified or rejected. > > When a decision is reached, the verifying party can log in to change > > the status and edit the report, if necessary. > > > > -------------------------------------- > > RFC7950 (draft-ietf-netmod-rfc6020bis-14) > > -------------------------------------- > > Title : The YANG 1.1 Data Modeling Language > > Publication Date : August 2016 > > Author(s) : M. Bjorklund, Ed. > > Category : PROPOSED STANDARD > > Source : Network Modeling > > Area : Operations and Management > > Stream : IETF > > Verifying Party : IESG > > > > _______________________________________________ > > netmod mailing list > > netmod@ietf.org > > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/netmod From nobody Fri Apr 3 04:23:05 2020 Return-Path: X-Original-To: netmod@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: netmod@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id B3C783A1970; Fri, 3 Apr 2020 04:22:49 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.9 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.9 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id qhCDkrFXA6zS; Fri, 3 Apr 2020 04:22:36 -0700 (PDT) Received: from rfc-editor.org (rfc-editor.org [4.31.198.49]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher AECDH-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 7D1923A1808; Fri, 3 Apr 2020 04:09:40 -0700 (PDT) Received: by rfc-editor.org (Postfix, from userid 30) id 2DB63F40722; Fri, 3 Apr 2020 04:08:52 -0700 (PDT) To: mvasko@cesnet.cz, mbj@tail-f.com X-PHP-Originating-Script: 30:errata_mail_lib.php From: RFC Errata System Cc: rwilton@cisco.com, iesg@ietf.org, netmod@ietf.org, rfc-editor@rfc-editor.org Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Message-Id: <20200403110852.2DB63F40722@rfc-editor.org> Date: Fri, 3 Apr 2020 04:08:52 -0700 (PDT) Archived-At: Subject: [netmod] [Errata Verified] RFC7950 (6078) X-BeenThere: netmod@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: NETMOD WG list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 03 Apr 2020 11:22:54 -0000 The following errata report has been verified for RFC7950, "The YANG 1.1 Data Modeling Language". -------------------------------------- You may review the report below and at: https://www.rfc-editor.org/errata/eid6078 -------------------------------------- Status: Verified Type: Technical Reported by: Michal Vasko Date Reported: 2020-04-03 Verified by: Rob Wilton (IESG) Section: 6.4. Original Text ------------- For example, consider the following definition: leaf lxiv { type decimal64 { fraction-digits 18; } must ". <= 10"; } An instance of the "lxiv" leaf having the value of 10.0000000000000001 will then successfully pass validation. Corrected Text -------------- For example, consider the following definition: leaf lxiv { type decimal64 { fraction-digits 18; } must ". <= 9"; } An instance of the "lxiv" leaf having the value of 9.0000000000000001 will then successfully pass validation. Notes ----- Value 10.0000000000000001 is not a valid decimal64 value with 18 fraction digits as per Section 9.3.4. -------------------------------------- RFC7950 (draft-ietf-netmod-rfc6020bis-14) -------------------------------------- Title : The YANG 1.1 Data Modeling Language Publication Date : August 2016 Author(s) : M. Bjorklund, Ed. 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X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-originalarrivaltime: 03 Apr 2020 12:06:17.6359 (UTC) X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-fromentityheader: Hosted X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-id: 5ae1af62-9505-4097-a69a-c1553ef7840e X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-mailboxtype: HOSTED X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-userprincipalname: ihjyJuapMElyh+fvdWS875eQ0Q5VJMnxtlVqlabNsLRqc4erpZqI6jD/NXSqWE7g2UCMd0CVqi9z1iv87SEdzg== X-MS-Exchange-Transport-CrossTenantHeadersStamped: MN2PR11MB4647 X-OriginatorOrg: cisco.com X-Outbound-SMTP-Client: 173.37.102.11, xch-rcd-001.cisco.com X-Outbound-Node: rcdn-core-11.cisco.com Archived-At: Subject: Re: [netmod] [Technical Errata Reported] RFC7950 (6031) X-BeenThere: netmod@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: NETMOD WG list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 03 Apr 2020 12:06:26 -0000 > -----Original Message----- > From: netmod On Behalf Of Juergen Schoenwaelder > Sent: 27 March 2020 16:13 > To: Martin Bj=F6rklund > Cc: ibagdona@gmail.com; warren@kumari.net; netmod@ietf.org; rfc- > editor@rfc-editor.org > Subject: Re: [netmod] [Technical Errata Reported] RFC7950 (6031) >=20 > On Fri, Mar 27, 2020 at 04:35:44PM +0100, Martin Bj=F6rklund wrote: > > [re-sent w/ correct address] > > > > Juergen Schoenwaelder wrote: > > > Hi, > > > > > > two comments: > > > > > > - It is unclear to me whether this really qualifies as an errata. > > > > > > - If we add this, then there should probably text about which > > > combinations are allowed. For example, for pattern and ranges, ther= e > > > is explicit text that says further restrictions of the value space > > > are possible, bot not expansions. If we follow that logic, then > > > > > > typedef a { > > > type leaf-ref { > > > path "/some/thing"; > > > require-instance true; > > > } > > > } > > > > > > typedef b { > > > type a { > > > require-instance false; > > > } > > > } > > > > > > might be illegal since b has a larger value space than a. > > > > The value space of b is the same as for a. "require-instance" doesn't > > change the value space; it changes semantic validation of the given > > values ((see my mail from 17 Mar, "Require-instance problem"). > > > > /martin >=20 > OK. If we consider require-instance a constraint and not a restriction, > then the motivation for this errata is at least > confusing: >=20 > Since no one argued against this understanding, this errata changes > the text to the same form as in other restrictions applicable to > derived types. >=20 > Simply put: Do you think it is OK to overwrite a require-instance true > with a require-instance false in a derived type? [RW]=20 I'm not sure, but going in the other direction seems plausible. E.g. you start with a typedef that is explicitly require-instance false tha= t is then refined by a typedef to be require-instance true. Regards, Rob >=20 > /js >=20 > -- > Juergen Schoenwaelder Jacobs University Bremen gGmbH > Phone: +49 421 200 3587 Campus Ring 1 | 28759 Bremen | Germany > Fax: +49 421 200 3103 >=20 > _______________________________________________ > netmod mailing list > netmod@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/netmod From nobody Fri Apr 3 06:32:00 2020 Return-Path: X-Original-To: netmod@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: netmod@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id A739B3A0971 for ; Fri, 3 Apr 2020 06:31:58 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.902 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.902 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIMWL_WL_HIGH=-0.001, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_H2=-0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (1024-bit key) header.d=nokia.onmicrosoft.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id XzN5XDNkWWMG for ; 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Fri, 3 Apr 2020 13:31:50 +0000 Received: from DM5PR08MB2633.namprd08.prod.outlook.com ([fe80::c00d:56c3:675e:ec63]) by DM5PR08MB2633.namprd08.prod.outlook.com ([fe80::c00d:56c3:675e:ec63%3]) with mapi id 15.20.2878.016; Fri, 3 Apr 2020 13:31:50 +0000 From: "Sterne, Jason (Nokia - CA/Ottawa)" To: "Rob Wilton (rwilton)" , Juergen Schoenwaelder , =?iso-8859-1?Q?Martin_Bj=F6rklund?= CC: "warren@kumari.net" , "netmod@ietf.org" , "rfc-editor@rfc-editor.org" Thread-Topic: [netmod] [Technical Errata Reported] RFC7950 (6031) Thread-Index: AQHWBCEZ+1dLitN/gE+4JTO6Fuc0uqhcjXeAgAAFCACAAAp/AIAKthqggAAbPjA= Date: Fri, 3 Apr 2020 13:31:50 +0000 Message-ID: References: <20200327101812.51904F40712@rfc-editor.org> <20200327151743.xwzncq4osj26tzec@anna.jacobs.jacobs-university.de> <20200327.163544.1954043640939771631.id@4668.se> <20200327161318.ykrx2s36bhmaglxq@anna.jacobs.jacobs-university.de> In-Reply-To: Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: authentication-results: spf=none (sender IP is ) smtp.mailfrom=jason.sterne@nokia.com; x-originating-ip: [65.110.221.64] x-ms-publictraffictype: Email x-ms-office365-filtering-ht: Tenant x-ms-office365-filtering-correlation-id: 20cabe01-9917-4327-5dd2-08d7d7d35da8 x-ms-traffictypediagnostic: DM5PR08MB2585: x-microsoft-antispam-prvs: x-ms-oob-tlc-oobclassifiers: OLM:8882; x-forefront-prvs: 0362BF9FDB x-forefront-antispam-report: CIP:255.255.255.255; CTRY:; LANG:en; SCL:1; SRV:; IPV:NLI; SFV:NSPM; H:DM5PR08MB2633.namprd08.prod.outlook.com; PTR:; CAT:NONE; SFTY:; SFS:(10019020)(4636009)(376002)(366004)(136003)(39850400004)(346002)(396003)(8676002)(81166006)(66946007)(66476007)(76116006)(71200400001)(81156014)(8936002)(966005)(53546011)(6506007)(5660300002)(316002)(54906003)(64756008)(66556008)(33656002)(52536014)(7696005)(110136005)(66446008)(55016002)(478600001)(9686003)(2906002)(86362001)(4326008)(186003)(26005); DIR:OUT; SFP:1102; received-spf: None (protection.outlook.com: nokia.com does not designate permitted sender hosts) x-ms-exchange-senderadcheck: 1 x-microsoft-antispam: BCL:0; x-microsoft-antispam-message-info: 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 x-ms-exchange-antispam-messagedata: bRCdlKQa+mAnmsYzvmC/D3L51EJmewnJQxE/2MBRo/1rKpL/kcYmrejRDglKeHE03s4uwtJCRojCXE09ymwaV185J+vPXDpjzOLBWoSlnPwA9RvUK+gf9mK5povWz46nIhpctYyTghUCtD7UBoTHgg== x-ms-exchange-transport-forked: True Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable MIME-Version: 1.0 X-OriginatorOrg: nokia.com X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-Network-Message-Id: 20cabe01-9917-4327-5dd2-08d7d7d35da8 X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-originalarrivaltime: 03 Apr 2020 13:31:50.4201 (UTC) X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-fromentityheader: Hosted X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-id: 5d471751-9675-428d-917b-70f44f9630b0 X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-mailboxtype: HOSTED X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-userprincipalname: wgAflOkRxZOSADBKzl0gwJKwePEJ/Im8Y/Slw9CUM8ndhVKaTiv6GiCADH/p2Fkt24GfTstMyZSBiDnsg7AoHg== X-MS-Exchange-Transport-CrossTenantHeadersStamped: DM5PR08MB2585 Archived-At: Subject: Re: [netmod] [Technical Errata Reported] RFC7950 (6031) X-BeenThere: netmod@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: NETMOD WG list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 03 Apr 2020 13:31:59 -0000 I don't think we should allow overwriting a require-instance true with a re= quire-instance false in a derived type. It seems to go against the spirit o= f avoiding expansion of allowable values. >From section 4.1 of RFC7950: Derived types can restrict their base type's set of valid values And this text in section 7.3.4 implies that derived types only do further r= estriction: If the type's default value is not valid according to the new restrictions specified in a derived type or leaf definition, the derived type or leaf definition MUST specify a new default value compatible with the restrictions. Going the other direction (overwriting with require-instance true) seems OK= to me. Jason > -----Original Message----- > From: netmod On Behalf Of Rob Wilton (rwilton) > Sent: Friday, April 3, 2020 8:06 AM > To: Juergen Schoenwaelder ; Martin > Bj=F6rklund > Cc: warren@kumari.net; netmod@ietf.org; rfc-editor@rfc-editor.org > Subject: Re: [netmod] [Technical Errata Reported] RFC7950 (6031) >=20 >=20 >=20 > > -----Original Message----- > > From: netmod On Behalf Of Juergen > Schoenwaelder > > Sent: 27 March 2020 16:13 > > To: Martin Bj=F6rklund > > Cc: ibagdona@gmail.com; warren@kumari.net; netmod@ietf.org; rfc- > > editor@rfc-editor.org > > Subject: Re: [netmod] [Technical Errata Reported] RFC7950 (6031) > > > > On Fri, Mar 27, 2020 at 04:35:44PM +0100, Martin Bj=F6rklund wrote: > > > [re-sent w/ correct address] > > > > > > Juergen Schoenwaelder wrote: > > > > Hi, > > > > > > > > two comments: > > > > > > > > - It is unclear to me whether this really qualifies as an errata. > > > > > > > > - If we add this, then there should probably text about which > > > > combinations are allowed. For example, for pattern and ranges, th= ere > > > > is explicit text that says further restrictions of the value spac= e > > > > are possible, bot not expansions. If we follow that logic, then > > > > > > > > typedef a { > > > > type leaf-ref { > > > > path "/some/thing"; > > > > require-instance true; > > > > } > > > > } > > > > > > > > typedef b { > > > > type a { > > > > require-instance false; > > > > } > > > > } > > > > > > > > might be illegal since b has a larger value space than a. > > > > > > The value space of b is the same as for a. "require-instance" doesn't > > > change the value space; it changes semantic validation of the given > > > values ((see my mail from 17 Mar, "Require-instance problem"). > > > > > > /martin > > > > OK. If we consider require-instance a constraint and not a restriction, > > then the motivation for this errata is at least > > confusing: > > > > Since no one argued against this understanding, this errata changes > > the text to the same form as in other restrictions applicable to > > derived types. > > > > Simply put: Do you think it is OK to overwrite a require-instance true > > with a require-instance false in a derived type? > [RW] > I'm not sure, but going in the other direction seems plausible. >=20 > E.g. you start with a typedef that is explicitly require-instance false t= hat is then > refined by a typedef to be require-instance true. >=20 > Regards, > Rob >=20 >=20 > > > > /js > > > > -- > > Juergen Schoenwaelder Jacobs University Bremen gGmbH > > Phone: +49 421 200 3587 Campus Ring 1 | 28759 Bremen | Germany > > Fax: +49 421 200 3103 > > > > _______________________________________________ > > netmod mailing list > > netmod@ietf.org > > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/netmod >=20 > _______________________________________________ > netmod mailing list > netmod@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/netmod From nobody Fri Apr 3 06:54:34 2020 Return-Path: X-Original-To: netmod@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: netmod@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 747013A077E for ; 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Fri, 3 Apr 2020 09:54:23 -0400 (EDT) Date: Fri, 03 Apr 2020 15:54:21 +0200 (CEST) Message-Id: <20200403.155421.968858617291773287.id@4668.se> To: jason.sterne@nokia.com Cc: rwilton=40cisco.com@dmarc.ietf.org, j.schoenwaelder@jacobs-university.de, mbj+ietf@4668.se, warren@kumari.net, netmod@ietf.org, rfc-editor@rfc-editor.org From: Martin =?iso-8859-1?Q?Bj=F6rklund?= In-Reply-To: References: <20200327161318.ykrx2s36bhmaglxq@anna.jacobs.jacobs-university.de> X-Mailer: Mew version 6.8 on Emacs 25.2 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: Text/Plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Archived-At: Subject: Re: [netmod] [Technical Errata Reported] RFC7950 (6031) X-BeenThere: netmod@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: NETMOD WG list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 03 Apr 2020 13:54:33 -0000 Hi, "Sterne, Jason (Nokia - CA/Ottawa)" wrote: > I don't think we should allow overwriting a require-instance true wit= h > a require-instance false in a derived type. It seems to go against th= e > spirit of avoiding expansion of allowable values. As I wrote earlier in this thread, the value space doesn't change with require-instance. /martin > = > From section 4.1 of RFC7950: > = > Derived types can restrict their base type's set of valid val= ues > = > And this text in section 7.3.4 implies that derived types only do > further restriction: > = > If the type's default value is not valid according to the new > restrictions specified in a derived type or leaf definition, the > derived type or leaf definition MUST specify a new default value > compatible with the restrictions. > = > Going the other direction (overwriting with require-instance true) > seems OK to me. > = > Jason > = > = > > -----Original Message----- > > From: netmod On Behalf Of Rob Wilton > > (rwilton) > > Sent: Friday, April 3, 2020 8:06 AM > > To: Juergen Schoenwaelder ; > > Martin > > Bj=F6rklund > > Cc: warren@kumari.net; netmod@ietf.org; rfc-editor@rfc-editor.org > > Subject: Re: [netmod] [Technical Errata Reported] RFC7950 (6031) > > = > > = > > = > > > -----Original Message----- > > > From: netmod On Behalf Of Juergen > > Schoenwaelder > > > Sent: 27 March 2020 16:13 > > > To: Martin Bj=F6rklund > > > Cc: ibagdona@gmail.com; warren@kumari.net; netmod@ietf.org; rfc- > > > editor@rfc-editor.org > > > Subject: Re: [netmod] [Technical Errata Reported] RFC7950 (6031) > > > > > > On Fri, Mar 27, 2020 at 04:35:44PM +0100, Martin Bj=F6rklund wrot= e: > > > > [re-sent w/ correct address] > > > > > > > > Juergen Schoenwaelder wr= ote: > > > > > Hi, > > > > > > > > > > two comments: > > > > > > > > > > - It is unclear to me whether this really qualifies as an err= ata. > > > > > > > > > > - If we add this, then there should probably text about which= > > > > > combinations are allowed. For example, for pattern and rang= es, there > > > > > is explicit text that says further restrictions of the valu= e space > > > > > are possible, bot not expansions. If we follow that logic, = then > > > > > > > > > > typedef a { > > > > > type leaf-ref { > > > > > path "/some/thing"; > > > > > require-instance true; > > > > > } > > > > > } > > > > > > > > > > typedef b { > > > > > type a { > > > > > require-instance false; > > > > > } > > > > > } > > > > > > > > > > might be illegal since b has a larger value space than a. > > > > > > > > The value space of b is the same as for a. "require-instance" d= oesn't > > > > change the value space; it changes semantic validation of the g= iven > > > > values ((see my mail from 17 Mar, "Require-instance problem"). > > > > > > > > /martin > > > > > > OK. If we consider require-instance a constraint and not a > > > restriction, > > > then the motivation for this errata is at least > > > confusing: > > > > > > Since no one argued against this understanding, this errata cha= nges > > > the text to the same form as in other restrictions applicable t= o > > > derived types. > > > > > > Simply put: Do you think it is OK to overwrite a require-instance= true > > > with a require-instance false in a derived type? > > [RW] > > I'm not sure, but going in the other direction seems plausible. > > = > > E.g. you start with a typedef that is explicitly require-instance > > false that is then > > refined by a typedef to be require-instance true. > > = > > Regards, > > Rob > > = > > = > > > > > > /js > > > > > > -- > > > Juergen Schoenwaelder Jacobs University Bremen gGmbH > > > Phone: +49 421 200 3587 Campus Ring 1 | 28759 Bremen | Ge= rmany > > > Fax: +49 421 200 3103 > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > > netmod mailing list > > > netmod@ietf.org > > > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/netmod > > = > > _______________________________________________ > > netmod mailing list > > netmod@ietf.org > > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/netmod From nobody Fri Apr 3 07:01:20 2020 Return-Path: X-Original-To: netmod@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: netmod@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 188BF3A07AB for ; 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Fri, 3 Apr 2020 14:01:10 +0000 From: "Sterne, Jason (Nokia - CA/Ottawa)" To: =?iso-8859-1?Q?Martin_Bj=F6rklund?= CC: "rwilton=40cisco.com@dmarc.ietf.org" , "j.schoenwaelder@jacobs-university.de" , "warren@kumari.net" , "netmod@ietf.org" , "rfc-editor@rfc-editor.org" Thread-Topic: [netmod] [Technical Errata Reported] RFC7950 (6031) Thread-Index: AQHWBCEZ+1dLitN/gE+4JTO6Fuc0uqhcjXeAgAAFCACAAAp/AIAKthqggAAbPjCAAAgogIAAACPQ Date: Fri, 3 Apr 2020 14:01:09 +0000 Message-ID: References: <20200327161318.ykrx2s36bhmaglxq@anna.jacobs.jacobs-university.de> <20200403.155421.968858617291773287.id@4668.se> In-Reply-To: <20200403.155421.968858617291773287.id@4668.se> Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: authentication-results: spf=none (sender IP is ) smtp.mailfrom=jason.sterne@nokia.com; x-originating-ip: [65.110.221.64] x-ms-publictraffictype: Email x-ms-office365-filtering-ht: Tenant x-ms-office365-filtering-correlation-id: 9f32a213-58fa-40b4-3fcd-08d7d7d7766e x-ms-traffictypediagnostic: DM5PR08MB2794: x-microsoft-antispam-prvs: x-ms-oob-tlc-oobclassifiers: OLM:9508; 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charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable MIME-Version: 1.0 X-OriginatorOrg: nokia.com X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-Network-Message-Id: 9f32a213-58fa-40b4-3fcd-08d7d7d7766e X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-originalarrivaltime: 03 Apr 2020 14:01:10.0042 (UTC) X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-fromentityheader: Hosted X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-id: 5d471751-9675-428d-917b-70f44f9630b0 X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-mailboxtype: HOSTED X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-userprincipalname: 9s9ljCYe5bPTdC5WfjsZuKS+M2gO7Q3MNnXWTWG1B3C+t1HmDBUQQ9sEG5wyrtyrG+yGTzqRB552bZSPv0mfwg== X-MS-Exchange-Transport-CrossTenantHeadersStamped: DM5PR08MB2794 Archived-At: Subject: Re: [netmod] [Technical Errata Reported] RFC7950 (6031) X-BeenThere: netmod@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: NETMOD WG list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 03 Apr 2020 14:01:17 -0000 Hi Martin, I believe you that the technical "value space" doesn't change, but that lea= f would suddenly accept more values than it did before right? I'm wonderin= g if we want to follow the "spirit" here, or stick with the "value space" a= rgument.=20 I'm not really certain what the implications are (and maybe someone has an = example of why it is better to allow it?) but overwriting require-instance = with 'false' doesn't feel right. Jason > -----Original Message----- > From: Martin Bj=F6rklund > Sent: Friday, April 3, 2020 9:54 AM > To: Sterne, Jason (Nokia - CA/Ottawa) > Cc: rwilton=3D40cisco.com@dmarc.ietf.org; j.schoenwaelder@jacobs- > university.de; mbj+ietf@4668.se; warren@kumari.net; netmod@ietf.org; rfc- > editor@rfc-editor.org > Subject: Re: [netmod] [Technical Errata Reported] RFC7950 (6031) >=20 > Hi, >=20 > "Sterne, Jason (Nokia - CA/Ottawa)" wrote: > > I don't think we should allow overwriting a require-instance true with > > a require-instance false in a derived type. It seems to go against the > > spirit of avoiding expansion of allowable values. >=20 > As I wrote earlier in this thread, the value space doesn't change with > require-instance. >=20 >=20 > /martin >=20 >=20 >=20 > > > > From section 4.1 of RFC7950: > > > > Derived types can restrict their base type's set of valid value= s > > > > And this text in section 7.3.4 implies that derived types only do > > further restriction: > > > > If the type's default value is not valid according to the new > > restrictions specified in a derived type or leaf definition, the > > derived type or leaf definition MUST specify a new default value > > compatible with the restrictions. > > > > Going the other direction (overwriting with require-instance true) > > seems OK to me. > > > > Jason > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > From: netmod On Behalf Of Rob Wilton > > > (rwilton) > > > Sent: Friday, April 3, 2020 8:06 AM > > > To: Juergen Schoenwaelder ; > > > Martin > > > Bj=F6rklund > > > Cc: warren@kumari.net; netmod@ietf.org; rfc-editor@rfc-editor.org > > > Subject: Re: [netmod] [Technical Errata Reported] RFC7950 (6031) > > > > > > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > > From: netmod On Behalf Of Juergen > > > Schoenwaelder > > > > Sent: 27 March 2020 16:13 > > > > To: Martin Bj=F6rklund > > > > Cc: ibagdona@gmail.com; warren@kumari.net; netmod@ietf.org; rfc- > > > > editor@rfc-editor.org > > > > Subject: Re: [netmod] [Technical Errata Reported] RFC7950 (6031) > > > > > > > > On Fri, Mar 27, 2020 at 04:35:44PM +0100, Martin Bj=F6rklund wrote: > > > > > [re-sent w/ correct address] > > > > > > > > > > Juergen Schoenwaelder > wrote: > > > > > > Hi, > > > > > > > > > > > > two comments: > > > > > > > > > > > > - It is unclear to me whether this really qualifies as an errat= a. > > > > > > > > > > > > - If we add this, then there should probably text about which > > > > > > combinations are allowed. For example, for pattern and ranges= , > there > > > > > > is explicit text that says further restrictions of the value = space > > > > > > are possible, bot not expansions. If we follow that logic, th= en > > > > > > > > > > > > typedef a { > > > > > > type leaf-ref { > > > > > > path "/some/thing"; > > > > > > require-instance true; > > > > > > } > > > > > > } > > > > > > > > > > > > typedef b { > > > > > > type a { > > > > > > require-instance false; > > > > > > } > > > > > > } > > > > > > > > > > > > might be illegal since b has a larger value space than a. > > > > > > > > > > The value space of b is the same as for a. "require-instance" doe= sn't > > > > > change the value space; it changes semantic validation of the giv= en > > > > > values ((see my mail from 17 Mar, "Require-instance problem"). > > > > > > > > > > /martin > > > > > > > > OK. If we consider require-instance a constraint and not a > > > > restriction, > > > > then the motivation for this errata is at least > > > > confusing: > > > > > > > > Since no one argued against this understanding, this errata chang= es > > > > the text to the same form as in other restrictions applicable to > > > > derived types. > > > > > > > > Simply put: Do you think it is OK to overwrite a require-instance t= rue > > > > with a require-instance false in a derived type? > > > [RW] > > > I'm not sure, but going in the other direction seems plausible. > > > > > > E.g. you start with a typedef that is explicitly require-instance > > > false that is then > > > refined by a typedef to be require-instance true. > > > > > > Regards, > > > Rob > > > > > > > > > > > > > > /js > > > > > > > > -- > > > > Juergen Schoenwaelder Jacobs University Bremen gGmbH > > > > Phone: +49 421 200 3587 Campus Ring 1 | 28759 Bremen | Germ= any > > > > Fax: +49 421 200 3103 > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > > > netmod mailing list > > > > netmod@ietf.org > > > > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/netmod > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > > netmod mailing list > > > netmod@ietf.org > > > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/netmod From nobody Fri Apr 3 07:52:19 2020 Return-Path: X-Original-To: netmod@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: netmod@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 38B713A16C9 for ; Fri, 3 Apr 2020 07:52:18 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.897 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.897 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_NONE=0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id NhfHN6acsfhr for ; Fri, 3 Apr 2020 07:52:15 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail.nic.cz (mail.nic.cz [217.31.204.67]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 2F6C33A16C8 for ; Fri, 3 Apr 2020 07:52:12 -0700 (PDT) Received: from birdie (unknown [IPv6:2a01:5e0:29:ffff:fc73:fa64:57e6:2115]) by mail.nic.cz (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id DCAC3141345 for ; Fri, 3 Apr 2020 16:52:09 +0200 (CEST) Message-ID: <9c3ee87c0e9d14c8921796c4b53d44620b53a942.camel@nic.cz> From: Ladislav Lhotka To: netmod@ietf.org Date: Fri, 03 Apr 2020 16:52:09 +0200 In-Reply-To: References: <20200327161318.ykrx2s36bhmaglxq@anna.jacobs.jacobs-university.de> <20200403.155421.968858617291773287.id@4668.se> Organization: CZ.NIC Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" User-Agent: Evolution 3.36.1 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Virus-Scanned: clamav-milter 0.101.4 at mail X-Virus-Status: Clean Archived-At: Subject: Re: [netmod] [Technical Errata Reported] RFC7950 (6031) X-BeenThere: netmod@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: NETMOD WG list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 03 Apr 2020 14:52:18 -0000 On Fri, 2020-04-03 at 14:01 +0000, Sterne, Jason (Nokia - CA/Ottawa) wrote: > Hi Martin, > > I believe you that the technical "value space" doesn't change, but that leaf > would suddenly accept more values than it did before right? I'm wondering if > we want to follow the "spirit" here, or stick with the "value space" argument. I agree with Martin here. Moreover, if such a derived type is added, it doesn't change anything related to existing data, because they use the base type as before. New data nodes may use the new type but no confusion can arise - their type has "require-instance false", which is correct. Lada > > I'm not really certain what the implications are (and maybe someone has an > example of why it is better to allow it?) but overwriting require-instance > with 'false' doesn't feel right. > > Jason > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: Martin Björklund > > Sent: Friday, April 3, 2020 9:54 AM > > To: Sterne, Jason (Nokia - CA/Ottawa) > > Cc: rwilton=40cisco.com@dmarc.ietf.org; j.schoenwaelder@jacobs- > > university.de; mbj+ietf@4668.se; warren@kumari.net; netmod@ietf.org; rfc- > > editor@rfc-editor.org > > Subject: Re: [netmod] [Technical Errata Reported] RFC7950 (6031) > > > > Hi, > > > > "Sterne, Jason (Nokia - CA/Ottawa)" wrote: > > > I don't think we should allow overwriting a require-instance true with > > > a require-instance false in a derived type. It seems to go against the > > > spirit of avoiding expansion of allowable values. > > > > As I wrote earlier in this thread, the value space doesn't change with > > require-instance. > > > > > > /martin > > > > > > > > > From section 4.1 of RFC7950: > > > > > > Derived types can restrict their base type's set of valid values > > > > > > And this text in section 7.3.4 implies that derived types only do > > > further restriction: > > > > > > If the type's default value is not valid according to the new > > > restrictions specified in a derived type or leaf definition, the > > > derived type or leaf definition MUST specify a new default value > > > compatible with the restrictions. > > > > > > Going the other direction (overwriting with require-instance true) > > > seems OK to me. > > > > > > Jason > > > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > > From: netmod On Behalf Of Rob Wilton > > > > (rwilton) > > > > Sent: Friday, April 3, 2020 8:06 AM > > > > To: Juergen Schoenwaelder ; > > > > Martin > > > > Björklund > > > > Cc: warren@kumari.net; netmod@ietf.org; rfc-editor@rfc-editor.org > > > > Subject: Re: [netmod] [Technical Errata Reported] RFC7950 (6031) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > > > From: netmod On Behalf Of Juergen > > > > Schoenwaelder > > > > > Sent: 27 March 2020 16:13 > > > > > To: Martin Björklund > > > > > Cc: ibagdona@gmail.com; warren@kumari.net; netmod@ietf.org; rfc- > > > > > editor@rfc-editor.org > > > > > Subject: Re: [netmod] [Technical Errata Reported] RFC7950 (6031) > > > > > > > > > > On Fri, Mar 27, 2020 at 04:35:44PM +0100, Martin Björklund wrote: > > > > > > [re-sent w/ correct address] > > > > > > > > > > > > Juergen Schoenwaelder > > wrote: > > > > > > > Hi, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > two comments: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > - It is unclear to me whether this really qualifies as an errata. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > - If we add this, then there should probably text about which > > > > > > > combinations are allowed. For example, for pattern and ranges, > > there > > > > > > > is explicit text that says further restrictions of the value > > > > > > > space > > > > > > > are possible, bot not expansions. If we follow that logic, then > > > > > > > > > > > > > > typedef a { > > > > > > > type leaf-ref { > > > > > > > path "/some/thing"; > > > > > > > require-instance true; > > > > > > > } > > > > > > > } > > > > > > > > > > > > > > typedef b { > > > > > > > type a { > > > > > > > require-instance false; > > > > > > > } > > > > > > > } > > > > > > > > > > > > > > might be illegal since b has a larger value space than a. > > > > > > > > > > > > The value space of b is the same as for a. "require-instance" > > > > > > doesn't > > > > > > change the value space; it changes semantic validation of the given > > > > > > values ((see my mail from 17 Mar, "Require-instance problem"). > > > > > > > > > > > > /martin > > > > > > > > > > OK. If we consider require-instance a constraint and not a > > > > > restriction, > > > > > then the motivation for this errata is at least > > > > > confusing: > > > > > > > > > > Since no one argued against this understanding, this errata changes > > > > > the text to the same form as in other restrictions applicable to > > > > > derived types. > > > > > > > > > > Simply put: Do you think it is OK to overwrite a require-instance true > > > > > with a require-instance false in a derived type? > > > > [RW] > > > > I'm not sure, but going in the other direction seems plausible. > > > > > > > > E.g. you start with a typedef that is explicitly require-instance > > > > false that is then > > > > refined by a typedef to be require-instance true. > > > > > > > > Regards, > > > > Rob > > > > > > > > > > > > > /js > > > > > > > > > > -- > > > > > Juergen Schoenwaelder Jacobs University Bremen gGmbH > > > > > Phone: +49 421 200 3587 Campus Ring 1 | 28759 Bremen | Germany > > > > > Fax: +49 421 200 3103 > > > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > > > > netmod mailing list > > > > > netmod@ietf.org > > > > > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/netmod > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > > > netmod mailing list > > > > netmod@ietf.org > > > > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/netmod > > _______________________________________________ > netmod mailing list > netmod@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/netmod -- Ladislav Lhotka Head, CZ.NIC Labs PGP Key ID: 0xB8F92B08A9F76C67 From nobody Fri Apr 3 09:24:43 2020 Return-Path: X-Original-To: netmod@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: netmod@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4EE9F3A1AB0 for ; Fri, 3 Apr 2020 09:24:41 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -9.6 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-9.6 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, 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X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-Id: f78e973e-5c0b-4ab8-bbd7-9887c95a8ebd X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-MailboxType: HOSTED X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-UserPrincipalName: Y9+h45J60JNipb3Bn6cGS5Vtms4M3dbcgEgFvfmb8RHsScD7jGc6YjIFh5QToPVLV3YpW6whTApyQjATNbw2lBg6bhysqibxZBR9pgCAa6Y= X-MS-Exchange-Transport-CrossTenantHeadersStamped: DB6P190MB0166 Archived-At: Subject: Re: [netmod] [Technical Errata Reported] RFC7950 (6031) X-BeenThere: netmod@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: NETMOD WG list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 03 Apr 2020 16:56:05 -0000 I propose option 1) and add an issue on yang-next (if not already there yet). /js On Fri, Apr 03, 2020 at 04:24:35PM +0000, Rob Wilton (rwilton) wrote: > For the errata, it looks like there are two choices: > > 1) We reject this errata, on the grounds that it is unclear on what the behaviour was expected to be. It is left unspecified as to whether require-instance is allowed in a typedef. We add an issue on the YANG.Next issue tracker to sort this out in a future revision of YANG. > > 2) We agree on what the expected behaviour should be, in which case it may be possible that this can be "Hold for document update", although it still seems questionable whether this really fits as an errata. > > Regards, > Rob > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: netmod On Behalf Of Ladislav Lhotka > > Sent: 03 April 2020 15:52 > > To: netmod@ietf.org > > Subject: Re: [netmod] [Technical Errata Reported] RFC7950 (6031) > > > > On Fri, 2020-04-03 at 14:01 +0000, Sterne, Jason (Nokia - CA/Ottawa) > > wrote: > > > Hi Martin, > > > > > > I believe you that the technical "value space" doesn't change, but > > > that leaf would suddenly accept more values than it did before right? > > > I'm wondering if we want to follow the "spirit" here, or stick with the > > "value space" argument. > > > > I agree with Martin here. Moreover, if such a derived type is added, it > > doesn't change anything related to existing data, because they use the > > base type as before. New data nodes may use the new type but no confusion > > can arise - their type has "require-instance false", which is correct. > > > > Lada > > > > > > > > I'm not really certain what the implications are (and maybe someone > > > has an example of why it is better to allow it?) but overwriting > > > require-instance with 'false' doesn't feel right. > > > > > > Jason > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > > From: Martin Björklund > > > > Sent: Friday, April 3, 2020 9:54 AM > > > > To: Sterne, Jason (Nokia - CA/Ottawa) > > > > Cc: rwilton=40cisco.com@dmarc.ietf.org; j.schoenwaelder@jacobs- > > > > university.de; mbj+ietf@4668.se; warren@kumari.net; netmod@ietf.org; > > > > rfc- editor@rfc-editor.org > > > > Subject: Re: [netmod] [Technical Errata Reported] RFC7950 (6031) > > > > > > > > Hi, > > > > > > > > "Sterne, Jason (Nokia - CA/Ottawa)" wrote: > > > > > I don't think we should allow overwriting a require-instance true > > > > > with a require-instance false in a derived type. It seems to go > > > > > against the spirit of avoiding expansion of allowable values. > > > > > > > > As I wrote earlier in this thread, the value space doesn't change > > > > with require-instance. > > > > > > > > > > > > /martin > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > From section 4.1 of RFC7950: > > > > > > > > > > Derived types can restrict their base type's set of valid > > > > > values > > > > > > > > > > And this text in section 7.3.4 implies that derived types only do > > > > > further restriction: > > > > > > > > > > If the type's default value is not valid according to the new > > > > > restrictions specified in a derived type or leaf definition, the > > > > > derived type or leaf definition MUST specify a new default value > > > > > compatible with the restrictions. > > > > > > > > > > Going the other direction (overwriting with require-instance true) > > > > > seems OK to me. > > > > > > > > > > Jason > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > > > > From: netmod On Behalf Of Rob Wilton > > > > > > (rwilton) > > > > > > Sent: Friday, April 3, 2020 8:06 AM > > > > > > To: Juergen Schoenwaelder > > > > > > ; > > > > > > Martin > > > > > > Björklund > > > > > > Cc: warren@kumari.net; netmod@ietf.org; > > > > > > rfc-editor@rfc-editor.org > > > > > > Subject: Re: [netmod] [Technical Errata Reported] RFC7950 (6031) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > > > > > From: netmod On Behalf Of Juergen > > > > > > Schoenwaelder > > > > > > > Sent: 27 March 2020 16:13 > > > > > > > To: Martin Björklund > > > > > > > Cc: ibagdona@gmail.com; warren@kumari.net; netmod@ietf.org; > > > > > > > rfc- editor@rfc-editor.org > > > > > > > Subject: Re: [netmod] [Technical Errata Reported] RFC7950 > > > > > > > (6031) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > On Fri, Mar 27, 2020 at 04:35:44PM +0100, Martin Björklund > > wrote: > > > > > > > > [re-sent w/ correct address] > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Juergen Schoenwaelder > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > Hi, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > two comments: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > - It is unclear to me whether this really qualifies as an > > errata. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > - If we add this, then there should probably text about > > which > > > > > > > > > combinations are allowed. For example, for pattern and > > > > > > > > > ranges, > > > > there > > > > > > > > > is explicit text that says further restrictions of the > > > > > > > > > value space > > > > > > > > > are possible, bot not expansions. If we follow that > > > > > > > > > logic, then > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > typedef a { > > > > > > > > > type leaf-ref { > > > > > > > > > path "/some/thing"; > > > > > > > > > require-instance true; > > > > > > > > > } > > > > > > > > > } > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > typedef b { > > > > > > > > > type a { > > > > > > > > > require-instance false; > > > > > > > > > } > > > > > > > > > } > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > might be illegal since b has a larger value space than a. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > The value space of b is the same as for a. "require-instance" > > > > > > > > doesn't > > > > > > > > change the value space; it changes semantic validation of > > > > > > > > the given values ((see my mail from 17 Mar, "Require-instance > > problem"). > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > /martin > > > > > > > > > > > > > > OK. If we consider require-instance a constraint and not a > > > > > > > restriction, then the motivation for this errata is at least > > > > > > > confusing: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Since no one argued against this understanding, this errata > > changes > > > > > > > the text to the same form as in other restrictions applicable > > to > > > > > > > derived types. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Simply put: Do you think it is OK to overwrite a > > > > > > > require-instance true with a require-instance false in a derived > > type? > > > > > > [RW] > > > > > > I'm not sure, but going in the other direction seems plausible. > > > > > > > > > > > > E.g. you start with a typedef that is explicitly > > > > > > require-instance false that is then refined by a typedef to be > > > > > > require-instance true. > > > > > > > > > > > > Regards, > > > > > > Rob > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > /js > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -- > > > > > > > Juergen Schoenwaelder Jacobs University Bremen gGmbH > > > > > > > Phone: +49 421 200 3587 Campus Ring 1 | 28759 Bremen | > > Germany > > > > > > > Fax: +49 421 200 3103 > university.de/> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > > > > > > netmod mailing list > > > > > > > netmod@ietf.org > > > > > > > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/netmod > > > > > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > > > > > netmod mailing list > > > > > > netmod@ietf.org > > > > > > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/netmod > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > > netmod mailing list > > > netmod@ietf.org > > > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/netmod > > -- > > Ladislav Lhotka > > Head, CZ.NIC Labs > > PGP Key ID: 0xB8F92B08A9F76C67 > > > > _______________________________________________ > > netmod mailing list > > netmod@ietf.org > > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/netmod > _______________________________________________ > netmod mailing list > netmod@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/netmod -- Juergen Schoenwaelder Jacobs University Bremen gGmbH Phone: +49 421 200 3587 Campus Ring 1 | 28759 Bremen | Germany Fax: +49 421 200 3103 From nobody Fri Apr 3 13:12:06 2020 Return-Path: X-Original-To: netmod@ietf.org Delivered-To: netmod@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from ietfa.amsl.com (localhost [IPv6:::1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7007B3A09A5; Fri, 3 Apr 2020 13:12:04 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: Murray Kucherawy via Datatracker To: "The IESG" Cc: draft-ietf-netmod-factory-default@ietf.org, netmod-chairs@ietf.org, netmod@ietf.org, Kent Watsen X-Test-IDTracker: no X-IETF-IDTracker: 6.124.0 Auto-Submitted: auto-generated Precedence: bulk Reply-To: Murray Kucherawy Message-ID: <158594472442.23613.11495828867147284100@ietfa.amsl.com> Date: Fri, 03 Apr 2020 13:12:04 -0700 Archived-At: Subject: [netmod] Murray Kucherawy's No Objection on draft-ietf-netmod-factory-default-14: (with COMMENT) X-BeenThere: netmod@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 List-Id: NETMOD WG list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 03 Apr 2020 20:12:05 -0000 Murray Kucherawy has entered the following ballot position for draft-ietf-netmod-factory-default-14: No Objection When responding, please keep the subject line intact and reply to all email addresses included in the To and CC lines. (Feel free to cut this introductory paragraph, however.) Please refer to https://www.ietf.org/iesg/statement/discuss-criteria.html for more information about IESG DISCUSS and COMMENT positions. The document, along with other ballot positions, can be found here: https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-netmod-factory-default/ ---------------------------------------------------------------------- COMMENT: ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Section 2: * "All security sensitive data (i.e., private keys, passwords, etc.) SHOULD be overwritten ..." presents a choice. Why would an implementer not do this? * "Implementors SHOULD reboot the device or otherwise restart processes needed to bootstrap it." leads me to the same question. Nits: * "Upon receiving the RPC" is followed by a list, so please add a colon * "datastores(e.g.," -- add a space after "datastores" Section 3: Nits: * "The contents of is defined ..." -- s/is/are/ Section 5: * "This document registers one URI in the IETF XML Registry [RFC3688]. ..." should say explicitly that it's the "ns" sub-registry receiving a new entry. From nobody Fri Apr 3 13:36:26 2020 Return-Path: X-Original-To: netmod@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: netmod@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 680783A0A65 for ; Fri, 3 Apr 2020 13:36:24 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.887 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.887 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, T_SPF_PERMERROR=0.01, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=yumaworks-com.20150623.gappssmtp.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id dGMBKcSz5y7I for ; Fri, 3 Apr 2020 13:36:17 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail-yb1-xb2c.google.com (mail-yb1-xb2c.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:4864:20::b2c]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id C27193A0A73 for ; Fri, 3 Apr 2020 13:36:16 -0700 (PDT) Received: by mail-yb1-xb2c.google.com with SMTP id g6so4941797ybh.12 for ; Fri, 03 Apr 2020 13:36:16 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=yumaworks-com.20150623.gappssmtp.com; s=20150623; h=mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date:message-id:subject:to; bh=0gilaFDU0uVnt/BruKCAW2CfBpjSeTlNpj1cF9V+PP4=; b=fRou11/RndJHKq4OCdE240LdFnmpyJyt6q9ImJEt9X8jwJQ+b3IBig+Tt5ImXjdO9z tkdFkmaVZSTK8kQkwEfQ3Mt2AQWoldS2M4smkjxiSNkfaelJs0nlCOWdKFkToII7FYzU Py2/KgUzeUifY9RyKWRF/FK94pCEYihQ37Fa5OGr9WnvFD9CSigngCdFeq9+wxGv/KXc cbRii6BEHmVjP5aYC/6t+mJGUoWnp9Ccl6LS3PVnSo6yd50cX8xfFxfG4KMdU/y0atHD Oy5rgUQNsepoNCTZ2bOmv9WQQ8nJDKFcGTRj7wj++gVaiGoHNmu/4WCFczfJ92KtzaXf fK0w== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date :message-id:subject:to; bh=0gilaFDU0uVnt/BruKCAW2CfBpjSeTlNpj1cF9V+PP4=; b=DavacaqwmqmBX6cqB09Dg3w4kDjOagr53uqDbfqvOC+SDdjS9Kbc7wjrsS/xOCiODN e3PnMto8Po1guEL24DdMprgQ+igE+rte/D06rGShju08m3Nc3gHr1Nk5YnPp6+uKOzeg IBaZ931JZftokLSfTaDholtpPje7KTee3ybwgwHEhvoyJjsGofX4vqb0RJHcnBX+d0Cf 6wSG/bFvSV1LIap1L3BT2PFns7Ze+T7wb3FfGCqt271VJWUCTIc+mM34T7Eq/QthVKbC ygrnaWhug5s6UOjUreFSI3rmHabqx65Wdy5VyyUGXq7Be8JgvEaL6qHjHgrlz8gnD4QV aFSQ== X-Gm-Message-State: AGi0PuaO+wVPj7YjIBEWiqpj+0Cs2sKizvaGY6AG/8iOB4S/LhqKarJn Z1Zyje8wba8Th7oTlYBrCrT/fQImBywDq8bRXDC9fQ== X-Google-Smtp-Source: APiQypIQhayUX1dH91uGqT4IezQsZQApuSQstnBSsYHel0pgbXPMpCSfmIEYStMj4FaaFQU9AUOgVlYj9CcHoD7J+pQ= X-Received: by 2002:a25:602:: with SMTP id 2mr17265829ybg.359.1585946175713; Fri, 03 Apr 2020 13:36:15 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 References: <20200327161318.ykrx2s36bhmaglxq@anna.jacobs.jacobs-university.de> <20200403.155421.968858617291773287.id@4668.se> <9c3ee87c0e9d14c8921796c4b53d44620b53a942.camel@nic.cz> <20200403165538.2lk4x5j32e3ctl4t@anna.jacobs.jacobs-university.de> In-Reply-To: <20200403165538.2lk4x5j32e3ctl4t@anna.jacobs.jacobs-university.de> From: Andy Bierman Date: Fri, 3 Apr 2020 13:36:04 -0700 Message-ID: To: Juergen Schoenwaelder , "Rob Wilton (rwilton)" , Ladislav Lhotka , "netmod@ietf.org" Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="0000000000006fc77a05a268de9d" Archived-At: Subject: Re: [netmod] [Technical Errata Reported] RFC7950 (6031) X-BeenThere: netmod@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: NETMOD WG list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 03 Apr 2020 20:36:25 -0000 --0000000000006fc77a05a268de9d Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable On Fri, Apr 3, 2020 at 9:56 AM Juergen Schoenwaelder < j.schoenwaelder@jacobs-university.de> wrote: > I propose option 1) and add an issue on yang-next (if not already > there yet). > > +1 (Noting that neither pyang or yangdump-pro handles this correctly right now) > /js > > Andy > On Fri, Apr 03, 2020 at 04:24:35PM +0000, Rob Wilton (rwilton) wrote: > > For the errata, it looks like there are two choices: > > > > 1) We reject this errata, on the grounds that it is unclear on what the > behaviour was expected to be. It is left unspecified as to whether > require-instance is allowed in a typedef. We add an issue on the YANG.Ne= xt > issue tracker to sort this out in a future revision of YANG. > > > > 2) We agree on what the expected behaviour should be, in which case it > may be possible that this can be "Hold for document update", although it > still seems questionable whether this really fits as an errata. > > > > Regards, > > Rob > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > From: netmod On Behalf Of Ladislav Lhotka > > > Sent: 03 April 2020 15:52 > > > To: netmod@ietf.org > > > Subject: Re: [netmod] [Technical Errata Reported] RFC7950 (6031) > > > > > > On Fri, 2020-04-03 at 14:01 +0000, Sterne, Jason (Nokia - CA/Ottawa) > > > wrote: > > > > Hi Martin, > > > > > > > > I believe you that the technical "value space" doesn't change, but > > > > that leaf would suddenly accept more values than it did before righ= t? > > > > I'm wondering if we want to follow the "spirit" here, or stick with > the > > > "value space" argument. > > > > > > I agree with Martin here. Moreover, if such a derived type is added, = it > > > doesn't change anything related to existing data, because they use th= e > > > base type as before. New data nodes may use the new type but no > confusion > > > can arise - their type has "require-instance false", which is correct= . > > > > > > Lada > > > > > > > > > > > I'm not really certain what the implications are (and maybe someone > > > > has an example of why it is better to allow it?) but overwriting > > > > require-instance with 'false' doesn't feel right. > > > > > > > > Jason > > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > > > From: Martin Bj=C3=B6rklund > > > > > Sent: Friday, April 3, 2020 9:54 AM > > > > > To: Sterne, Jason (Nokia - CA/Ottawa) > > > > > Cc: rwilton=3D40cisco.com@dmarc.ietf.org; j.schoenwaelder@jacobs- > > > > > university.de; mbj+ietf@4668.se; warren@kumari.net; > netmod@ietf.org; > > > > > rfc- editor@rfc-editor.org > > > > > Subject: Re: [netmod] [Technical Errata Reported] RFC7950 (6031) > > > > > > > > > > Hi, > > > > > > > > > > "Sterne, Jason (Nokia - CA/Ottawa)" > wrote: > > > > > > I don't think we should allow overwriting a require-instance tr= ue > > > > > > with a require-instance false in a derived type. It seems to go > > > > > > against the spirit of avoiding expansion of allowable values. > > > > > > > > > > As I wrote earlier in this thread, the value space doesn't change > > > > > with require-instance. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > /martin > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > From section 4.1 of RFC7950: > > > > > > > > > > > > Derived types can restrict their base type's set of val= id > > > > > > values > > > > > > > > > > > > And this text in section 7.3.4 implies that derived types only = do > > > > > > further restriction: > > > > > > > > > > > > If the type's default value is not valid according to the n= ew > > > > > > restrictions specified in a derived type or leaf definition, > the > > > > > > derived type or leaf definition MUST specify a new default > value > > > > > > compatible with the restrictions. > > > > > > > > > > > > Going the other direction (overwriting with require-instance > true) > > > > > > seems OK to me. > > > > > > > > > > > > Jason > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > > > > > From: netmod On Behalf Of Rob Wilto= n > > > > > > > (rwilton) > > > > > > > Sent: Friday, April 3, 2020 8:06 AM > > > > > > > To: Juergen Schoenwaelder > > > > > > > ; > > > > > > > Martin > > > > > > > Bj=C3=B6rklund > > > > > > > Cc: warren@kumari.net; netmod@ietf.org; > > > > > > > rfc-editor@rfc-editor.org > > > > > > > Subject: Re: [netmod] [Technical Errata Reported] RFC7950 > (6031) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > > > > > > From: netmod On Behalf Of Juergen > > > > > > > Schoenwaelder > > > > > > > > Sent: 27 March 2020 16:13 > > > > > > > > To: Martin Bj=C3=B6rklund > > > > > > > > Cc: ibagdona@gmail.com; warren@kumari.net; netmod@ietf.org; > > > > > > > > rfc- editor@rfc-editor.org > > > > > > > > Subject: Re: [netmod] [Technical Errata Reported] RFC7950 > > > > > > > > (6031) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > On Fri, Mar 27, 2020 at 04:35:44PM +0100, Martin Bj=C3=B6rk= lund > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > [re-sent w/ correct address] > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Juergen Schoenwaelder < > j.schoenwaelder@jacobs-university.de> > > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > Hi, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > two comments: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > - It is unclear to me whether this really qualifies as = an > > > errata. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > - If we add this, then there should probably text about > > > which > > > > > > > > > > combinations are allowed. For example, for pattern an= d > > > > > > > > > > ranges, > > > > > there > > > > > > > > > > is explicit text that says further restrictions of th= e > > > > > > > > > > value space > > > > > > > > > > are possible, bot not expansions. If we follow that > > > > > > > > > > logic, then > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > typedef a { > > > > > > > > > > type leaf-ref { > > > > > > > > > > path "/some/thing"; > > > > > > > > > > require-instance true; > > > > > > > > > > } > > > > > > > > > > } > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > typedef b { > > > > > > > > > > type a { > > > > > > > > > > require-instance false; > > > > > > > > > > } > > > > > > > > > > } > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > might be illegal since b has a larger value space tha= n > a. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > The value space of b is the same as for a. > "require-instance" > > > > > > > > > doesn't > > > > > > > > > change the value space; it changes semantic validation of > > > > > > > > > the given values ((see my mail from 17 Mar, > "Require-instance > > > problem"). > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > /martin > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > OK. If we consider require-instance a constraint and not a > > > > > > > > restriction, then the motivation for this errata is at leas= t > > > > > > > > confusing: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Since no one argued against this understanding, this erra= ta > > > changes > > > > > > > > the text to the same form as in other restrictions > applicable > > > to > > > > > > > > derived types. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Simply put: Do you think it is OK to overwrite a > > > > > > > > require-instance true with a require-instance false in a > derived > > > type? > > > > > > > [RW] > > > > > > > I'm not sure, but going in the other direction seems plausibl= e. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > E.g. you start with a typedef that is explicitly > > > > > > > require-instance false that is then refined by a typedef to b= e > > > > > > > require-instance true. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Regards, > > > > > > > Rob > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > /js > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -- > > > > > > > > Juergen Schoenwaelder Jacobs University Bremen > gGmbH > > > > > > > > Phone: +49 421 200 3587 Campus Ring 1 | 28759 Breme= n > | > > > Germany > > > > > > > > Fax: +49 421 200 3103 > > university.de/> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > > > > > > > netmod mailing list > > > > > > > > netmod@ietf.org > > > > > > > > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/netmod > > > > > > > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > > > > > > netmod mailing list > > > > > > > netmod@ietf.org > > > > > > > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/netmod > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > > > netmod mailing list > > > > netmod@ietf.org > > > > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/netmod > > > -- > > > Ladislav Lhotka > > > Head, CZ.NIC Labs > > > PGP Key ID: 0xB8F92B08A9F76C67 > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > > netmod mailing list > > > netmod@ietf.org > > > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/netmod > > _______________________________________________ > > netmod mailing list > > netmod@ietf.org > > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/netmod > > -- > Juergen Schoenwaelder Jacobs University Bremen gGmbH > Phone: +49 421 200 3587 Campus Ring 1 | 28759 Bremen | Germany > Fax: +49 421 200 3103 > > _______________________________________________ > netmod mailing list > netmod@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/netmod > --0000000000006fc77a05a268de9d Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable


=
On Fri, Apr 3, 2020 at 9:56 AM Juerge= n Schoenwaelder <j.schoenwaelder@jacobs-university.de> wrote:
I propose option 1) and add an issue o= n yang-next (if not already
there yet).


+1=C2=A0 (Noting that neither pyang or= yangdump-pro handles this correctly right now)
=C2=A0
/js


Andy
=C2=A0
On Fri, Apr 03, 2020 at 04:24:35PM +0000, Rob Wilton (rwilton) wrote:
> For the errata, it looks like there are two choices:
>
> 1) We reject this errata, on the grounds that it is unclear on what th= e behaviour was expected to be.=C2=A0 It is left unspecified as to whether = require-instance is allowed in a typedef.=C2=A0 We add an issue on the YANG= .Next issue tracker to sort this out in a future revision of YANG.
>
> 2) We agree on what the expected behaviour should be, in which case it= may be possible that this can be "Hold for document update", alt= hough it still seems questionable whether this really fits as an errata. >
> Regards,
> Rob
>=C2=A0
>
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: netmod <netmod-bounces@ietf.org> On Behalf Of Ladislav Lhotka > > Sent: 03 April 2020 15:52
> > To: netmod@i= etf.org
> > Subject: Re: [netmod] [Technical Errata Reported] RFC7950 (6031)<= br> > >
> > On Fri, 2020-04-03 at 14:01 +0000, Sterne, Jason (Nokia - CA/Otta= wa)
> > wrote:
> > > Hi Martin,
> > >
> > > I believe you that the technical "value space" doe= sn't change, but
> > > that leaf would suddenly accept more values than it did befo= re right?
> > > I'm wondering if we want to follow the "spirit"= ; here, or stick with the
> > "value space" argument.
> >
> > I agree with Martin here. Moreover, if such a derived type is add= ed, it
> > doesn't change anything related to existing data, because the= y use the
> > base type as before. New data nodes may use the new type but no c= onfusion
> > can arise - their type has "require-instance false", wh= ich is correct.
> >
> > Lada
> >
> > >
> > > I'm not really certain what the implications are (and ma= ybe someone
> > > has an example of why it is better to allow it?) but overwri= ting
> > > require-instance with 'false' doesn't feel right= .
> > >
> > > Jason
> > >
> > > > -----Original Message-----
> > > > From: Martin Bj=C3=B6rklund <mbj+ietf@4668.se>
> > > > Sent: Friday, April 3, 2020 9:54 AM
> > > > To: Sterne, Jason (Nokia - CA/Ottawa) <jason.sterne@nokia.com&g= t;
> > > > Cc: rwilton=3D40cisco.com@dmarc.ietf.org; j.schoenwaelder@jaco= bs-
> > > > university.de; mbj+ietf@4668.se; warren@kumari.net; netmod@ietf.org;
> > > > rfc- editor@rfc-editor.org
> > > > Subject: Re: [netmod] [Technical Errata Reported] RFC79= 50 (6031)
> > > >
> > > > Hi,
> > > >
> > > > "Sterne, Jason (Nokia - CA/Ottawa)" <jason.sterne@nokia.c= om> wrote:
> > > > > I don't think we should allow overwriting a re= quire-instance true
> > > > > with a require-instance false in a derived type. I= t seems to go
> > > > > against the spirit of avoiding expansion of allowa= ble values.
> > > >
> > > > As I wrote earlier in this thread, the value space does= n't change
> > > > with require-instance.
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > /martin
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > > From section 4.1 of RFC7950:
> > > > >
> > > > >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0Derived types can= restrict their base type's set of valid
> > > > > values
> > > > >
> > > > > And this text in section 7.3.4 implies that derive= d types only do
> > > > > further restriction:
> > > > >
> > > > >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0If the type's default value= is not valid according to the new
> > > > >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 restrictions specified in a derived t= ype or leaf definition, the
> > > > >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 derived type or leaf definition MUST = specify a new default value
> > > > >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 compatible with the restrictions.
> > > > >
> > > > > Going the other direction (overwriting with requir= e-instance true)
> > > > > seems OK to me.
> > > > >
> > > > > Jason
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > > -----Original Message-----
> > > > > > From: netmod <netmod-bounces@ietf.org> On Behalf = Of Rob Wilton
> > > > > > (rwilton)
> > > > > > Sent: Friday, April 3, 2020 8:06 AM
> > > > > > To: Juergen Schoenwaelder
> > > > > > <j.schoenwaelder@jacobs-university.de&g= t;;
> > > > > > Martin
> > > > > > Bj=C3=B6rklund <mbj+ietf@4668.se>
> > > > > > Cc: warren@kumari.net; netmod@ietf.org;
> > > > > > rfc-editor@rfc-editor.org
> > > > > > Subject: Re: [netmod] [Technical Errata Repor= ted] RFC7950 (6031)
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > > -----Original Message-----
> > > > > > > From: netmod <netmod-bounces@ietf.org> On Be= half Of Juergen
> > > > > > Schoenwaelder
> > > > > > > Sent: 27 March 2020 16:13
> > > > > > > To: Martin Bj=C3=B6rklund <mbj+ietf@4668.se>
> > > > > > > Cc: ibagdona@gmail.com; warren@kumari.net; netmod@ietf.org;
> > > > > > > rfc- editor@rfc-editor.org
> > > > > > > Subject: Re: [netmod] [Technical Errata = Reported] RFC7950
> > > > > > > (6031)
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > On Fri, Mar 27, 2020 at 04:35:44PM +0100= , Martin Bj=C3=B6rklund
> > wrote:
> > > > > > > > [re-sent w/ correct address]
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > Juergen Schoenwaelder <j.schoen= waelder@jacobs-university.de>
> > > > wrote:
> > > > > > > > > Hi,
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > two comments:
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > - It is unclear to me whether = this really qualifies as an
> > errata.
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > - If we add this, then there s= hould probably text about
> > which
> > > > > > > > >=C2=A0 =C2=A0combinations are a= llowed. For example, for pattern and
> > > > > > > > > ranges,
> > > > there
> > > > > > > > >=C2=A0 =C2=A0is explicit text t= hat says further restrictions of the
> > > > > > > > > value space
> > > > > > > > >=C2=A0 =C2=A0are possible, bot = not expansions. If we follow that
> > > > > > > > > logic, then
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > >=C2=A0 =C2=A0typedef a {
> > > > > > > > >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0type leaf-r= ef {
> > > > > > > > >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0path= "/some/thing";
> > > > > > > > >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0requ= ire-instance true;
> > > > > > > > >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0}
> > > > > > > > >=C2=A0 =C2=A0}
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > >=C2=A0 =C2=A0typedef b {
> > > > > > > > >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0type a { > > > > > > > > >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0requ= ire-instance false;
> > > > > > > > >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0}
> > > > > > > > >=C2=A0 =C2=A0}
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > >=C2=A0 =C2=A0might be illegal s= ince b has a larger value space than a.
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > The value space of b is the same as= for a. "require-instance"
> > > > > > > > doesn't
> > > > > > > > change the value space; it changes = semantic validation of
> > > > > > > > the given values ((see my mail from= 17 Mar, "Require-instance
> > problem").
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > /martin
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > OK. If we consider require-instance a co= nstraint and not a
> > > > > > > restriction, then the motivation for thi= s errata is at least
> > > > > > > confusing:
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >=C2=A0 =C2=A0Since no one argued against = this understanding, this errata
> > changes
> > > > > > >=C2=A0 =C2=A0the text to the same form as= in other restrictions applicable
> > to
> > > > > > >=C2=A0 =C2=A0derived types.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Simply put: Do you think it is OK to ove= rwrite a
> > > > > > > require-instance true with a require-ins= tance false in a derived
> > type?
> > > > > > [RW]
> > > > > > I'm not sure, but going in the other dire= ction seems plausible.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > E.g. you start with a typedef that is explici= tly
> > > > > > require-instance false that is then refined b= y a typedef to be
> > > > > > require-instance true.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Regards,
> > > > > > Rob
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > > /js
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > --
> > > > > > > Juergen Schoenwaelder=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2= =A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0Jacobs University Bremen gGmbH
> > > > > > > Phone: +49 421 200 3587=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2= =A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0Campus Ring 1 | 28759 Bremen |
> > Germany
> > > > > > > Fax:=C2=A0 =C2=A0+49 421 200 3103=C2=A0 = =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0<https://www.jacobs-
> > university.de/>
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > ________________________________________= _______
> > > > > > > netmod mailing list
> > > > > > > netmod@ietf.org
> > > > > > > https://www.ietf.org/= mailman/listinfo/netmod
> > > > > >
> > > > > > _____________________________________________= __
> > > > > > netmod mailing list
> > > > > > netmod@ietf.org
> > > > > > https://www.ietf.org/mailm= an/listinfo/netmod
> > >
> > > _______________________________________________
> > > netmod mailing list
> > > netmod@= ietf.org
> > > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/net= mod
> > --
> > Ladislav Lhotka
> > Head, CZ.NIC Labs
> > PGP Key ID: 0xB8F92B08A9F76C67
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > netmod mailing list
> > netmod@ietf.= org
> > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/netmod
> _______________________________________________
> netmod mailing list
> netmod@ietf.org
> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/netmod
--
Juergen Schoenwaelder=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0Jacobs Univer= sity Bremen gGmbH
Phone: +49 421 200 3587=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0Campus Ring 1 | 28= 759 Bremen | Germany
Fax:=C2=A0 =C2=A0+49 421 200 3103=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0<https://www.jacobs-university.de/>

_______________________________________________
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--0000000000006fc77a05a268de9d-- From nobody Sun Apr 5 23:51:58 2020 Return-Path: X-Original-To: netmod@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: netmod@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 13E143A076E for ; Sun, 5 Apr 2020 23:51:55 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.097 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.097 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_EF=-0.1, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_NONE=0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=cesnet.cz Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 0D7CCZ6hV-Sp for ; Sun, 5 Apr 2020 23:51:51 -0700 (PDT) Received: from office2.cesnet.cz (office2.cesnet.cz [195.113.144.244]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 7D75C3A0765 for ; Sun, 5 Apr 2020 23:51:50 -0700 (PDT) Received: from [192.168.55.109] (ip4-83-240-38-102.cust.nbox.cz [83.240.38.102]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by office2.cesnet.cz (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 85EDE400052; Mon, 6 Apr 2020 08:51:47 +0200 (CEST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=cesnet.cz; s=office2-2020; t=1586155907; bh=o2GXjRzSYrpIeBWhPmhFctnSNFCkA9YWg5kvl6Cp+xI=; h=Subject:To:References:From:Date:In-Reply-To; b=ekdblYWbwYwgTA0kkr/qLTYDOYyFEREYMFhKXfWRUfH1UR9/fsVIUj/Z0W/Wh/bLD sYepTBCEku8ao77OtFcDJuzYb2LHf2elKcG4r2BebSiXl3ZyO7aRffZf57oSWIpDE6 3vPoW1kPwNTZ/UaquaudSRubNF3+OcEOs8TNIh8Ng15SZ7LMlh1oepOj/Ok+d2rS0J EVqGTYgFVBaQcropP8EsgwSYQjQ4HEQyUlfWkZ0g+whuitdLfLs6y/Adop72rTITyl 55/iD7RK+sfJHSdXmlfv0tccfZfoNjEmrr/auCXbpf1OuDV46JszSTGEWxMKgYSA9H mXf9fOIStdzVw== To: "Rob Wilton (rwilton)" , Ladislav Lhotka , "netmod@ietf.org" References: <20200327161318.ykrx2s36bhmaglxq@anna.jacobs.jacobs-university.de> <20200403.155421.968858617291773287.id@4668.se> <9c3ee87c0e9d14c8921796c4b53d44620b53a942.camel@nic.cz> <20200403165538.2lk4x5j32e3ctl4t@anna.jacobs.jacobs-university.de> From: Radek Krejci Autocrypt: addr=rkrejci@cesnet.cz; keydata= xsDiBEKfHd4RBADDE8CtJpEtOraXBKfQg0KCRZu7BRALixoLqW98U+N9h+PJ+gCnFaKNmnYu fXWLYKTJRUlaoMGIJOZjHpr/zvwozSR+VJkxCsTyNYTF8vIfN3Iwrxy9e8CNy/O1GI50K/ld WWMDl+3M2NztiBFPrCT0b/U5ErsN7bTrf2XLEQRpZwCg95POGbJPqPAaaok2KU5e2u0/flsD /AyC0aRO66Ci0OGw0R5sCJmzZ5xE5eBUvfx0N0IC16aojrwRYM5yf+bULtBDd4wPI1R+VH/X P6OrDgzlDmutJthVtYfCcho3IhqnVo1R/UvJxjF3ATKbOnVHL4xwiLSrRDb6rKVyd1+Kc7cq +JABgFl+JP4xndytvvUXdVqhuSUFBACCDdDtxutkclBrvEp2guBIftuT4/oK3IWxgtevlGfY LZXwdD6pIWS1z6y6xthoFTsLWS1QCFk2ZXmAgvOV/lnW0iGHwO5kCfzvWJq7weeH2FGuBgq+ WInxhdIFD/QwiXV6EPUWzAoC5Fx4Cz5ySFSd6n0C1Mrzin3ABtPHRpUT8s0pUmFkZWsgS3Jl amNpIChDRVNORVQpIDxya3JlamNpQGNlc25ldC5jej7CYgQTEQIAIgUCTT/pkAIbAwYLCQgH AwIGFQgCCQoLBBYCAwECHgECF4AACgkQIMoxClN+p/31DwCfWVWX1IWaUa6+QbuVvZQIkb6m Rn8AoLRvdANGe/As/Nxabu+KKtrorkQ6zsBNBEKfHeIQBACwORs231u+o9/pM7y85ZlZhnNY iJziZ4P5W9lD5cwcEUFgTt1upUmjjSMWr5x4HL6o5jZeKOQMxiYP+8qA8OPEM6fzemS1Uj9M 6RXUaoUZFrcKD6BvneyyKuGgNa9bQfTG0aDOqaxy4lYFNcHVeo9sXJ+6adVxlCo/GzZ6zznn nwADBQP+IZQoao7aCFkZOVk8F5AW9Iiz0hk1trdCw88vD5fPMqcLxOQEsKrHAjibTWyOy1il 9zgLyVjcBzOs+v6UvbcJRybyaITC7j4IFPr78euVup/AeL+A9ay+ZWKHMFzALD+VjLyYAiRL w2MBjdqAKbPh2Ei1HXJoOX5JTWWnMRsBey/CSQQYEQIACQUCQp8d4gIbDAAKCRAgyjEKU36n /YssAKDVrEroZMSci018ipG4q6w11TsriwCghwCwX0isavqXJTbw10hwJePlDns= Message-ID: <0a546588-6f87-3362-17da-37de8ea08956@cesnet.cz> Date: Mon, 6 Apr 2020 08:51:46 +0200 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; Linux x86_64; rv:68.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/68.6.0 MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: <20200403165538.2lk4x5j32e3ctl4t@anna.jacobs.jacobs-university.de> Content-Type: multipart/signed; protocol="application/pkcs7-signature"; micalg=sha-256; boundary="------------ms070203020901050407040107" Archived-At: Subject: Re: [netmod] [Technical Errata Reported] RFC7950 (6031) X-BeenThere: netmod@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: NETMOD WG list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 06 Apr 2020 06:51:55 -0000 This is a cryptographically signed message in MIME format. --------------ms070203020901050407040107 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-2 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Language: en-US Hi, I just want to emphasis, what are the consequences of the option 1. This way, the tools are allowed to not accept require-instance in derived types, so actually schema authors SHOULD NOT use require-instance this way. Since there is at least 1 YANG model in RFC (8639 and I would expect more), which has require-instance in the derive type, errata will be needed in this case(s). Regards, Radek Dne 03. 04. 20 v 18:55 Juergen Schoenwaelder napsal(a): > I propose option 1) and add an issue on yang-next (if not already > there yet). > > /js > > On Fri, Apr 03, 2020 at 04:24:35PM +0000, Rob Wilton (rwilton) wrote: >> For the errata, it looks like there are two choices: >> >> 1) We reject this errata, on the grounds that it is unclear on what th= e behaviour was expected to be. It is left unspecified as to whether req= uire-instance is allowed in a typedef. We add an issue on the YANG.Next = issue tracker to sort this out in a future revision of YANG. >> >> 2) We agree on what the expected behaviour should be, in which case it= may be possible that this can be "Hold for document update", although it= still seems questionable whether this really fits as an errata. >> >> Regards, >> Rob >> =20 >> >>> -----Original Message----- >>> From: netmod On Behalf Of Ladislav Lhotka >>> Sent: 03 April 2020 15:52 >>> To: netmod@ietf.org >>> Subject: Re: [netmod] [Technical Errata Reported] RFC7950 (6031) >>> >>> On Fri, 2020-04-03 at 14:01 +0000, Sterne, Jason (Nokia - CA/Ottawa) >>> wrote: >>>> Hi Martin, >>>> >>>> I believe you that the technical "value space" doesn't change, but >>>> that leaf would suddenly accept more values than it did before right= ? >>>> I'm wondering if we want to follow the "spirit" here, or stick with = the >>> "value space" argument. >>> >>> I agree with Martin here. Moreover, if such a derived type is added, = it >>> doesn't change anything related to existing data, because they use th= e >>> base type as before. New data nodes may use the new type but no confu= sion >>> can arise - their type has "require-instance false", which is correct= =2E >>> >>> Lada >>> >>>> I'm not really certain what the implications are (and maybe someone >>>> has an example of why it is better to allow it?) but overwriting >>>> require-instance with 'false' doesn't feel right. >>>> >>>> Jason >>>> >>>>> -----Original Message----- >>>>> From: Martin Bj=F6rklund >>>>> Sent: Friday, April 3, 2020 9:54 AM >>>>> To: Sterne, Jason (Nokia - CA/Ottawa) >>>>> Cc: rwilton=3D40cisco.com@dmarc.ietf.org; j.schoenwaelder@jacobs- >>>>> university.de; mbj+ietf@4668.se; warren@kumari.net; netmod@ietf.org= ; >>>>> rfc- editor@rfc-editor.org >>>>> Subject: Re: [netmod] [Technical Errata Reported] RFC7950 (6031) >>>>> >>>>> Hi, >>>>> >>>>> "Sterne, Jason (Nokia - CA/Ottawa)" wrote:= >>>>>> I don't think we should allow overwriting a require-instance true >>>>>> with a require-instance false in a derived type. It seems to go >>>>>> against the spirit of avoiding expansion of allowable values. >>>>> As I wrote earlier in this thread, the value space doesn't change >>>>> with require-instance. >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> /martin >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>>> From section 4.1 of RFC7950: >>>>>> >>>>>> Derived types can restrict their base type's set of valid >>>>>> values >>>>>> >>>>>> And this text in section 7.3.4 implies that derived types only do >>>>>> further restriction: >>>>>> >>>>>> If the type's default value is not valid according to the new >>>>>> restrictions specified in a derived type or leaf definition, th= e >>>>>> derived type or leaf definition MUST specify a new default valu= e >>>>>> compatible with the restrictions. >>>>>> >>>>>> Going the other direction (overwriting with require-instance true)= >>>>>> seems OK to me. >>>>>> >>>>>> Jason >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>>> -----Original Message----- >>>>>>> From: netmod On Behalf Of Rob Wilton >>>>>>> (rwilton) >>>>>>> Sent: Friday, April 3, 2020 8:06 AM >>>>>>> To: Juergen Schoenwaelder >>>>>>> ; >>>>>>> Martin >>>>>>> Bj=F6rklund >>>>>>> Cc: warren@kumari.net; netmod@ietf.org; >>>>>>> rfc-editor@rfc-editor.org >>>>>>> Subject: Re: [netmod] [Technical Errata Reported] RFC7950 (6031) >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>>> -----Original Message----- >>>>>>>> From: netmod On Behalf Of Juergen >>>>>>> Schoenwaelder >>>>>>>> Sent: 27 March 2020 16:13 >>>>>>>> To: Martin Bj=F6rklund >>>>>>>> Cc: ibagdona@gmail.com; warren@kumari.net; netmod@ietf.org; >>>>>>>> rfc- editor@rfc-editor.org >>>>>>>> Subject: Re: [netmod] [Technical Errata Reported] RFC7950 >>>>>>>> (6031) >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> On Fri, Mar 27, 2020 at 04:35:44PM +0100, Martin Bj=F6rklund >>> wrote: >>>>>>>>> [re-sent w/ correct address] >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Juergen Schoenwaelder >>>>> wrote: >>>>>>>>>> Hi, >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> two comments: >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> - It is unclear to me whether this really qualifies as an >>> errata. >>>>>>>>>> - If we add this, then there should probably text about >>> which >>>>>>>>>> combinations are allowed. For example, for pattern and >>>>>>>>>> ranges, >>>>> there >>>>>>>>>> is explicit text that says further restrictions of the >>>>>>>>>> value space >>>>>>>>>> are possible, bot not expansions. If we follow that >>>>>>>>>> logic, then >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> typedef a { >>>>>>>>>> type leaf-ref { >>>>>>>>>> path "/some/thing"; >>>>>>>>>> require-instance true; >>>>>>>>>> } >>>>>>>>>> } >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> typedef b { >>>>>>>>>> type a { >>>>>>>>>> require-instance false; >>>>>>>>>> } >>>>>>>>>> } >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> might be illegal since b has a larger value space than a. >>>>>>>>> The value space of b is the same as for a. "require-instance" >>>>>>>>> doesn't >>>>>>>>> change the value space; it changes semantic validation of >>>>>>>>> the given values ((see my mail from 17 Mar, "Require-instance >>> problem"). >>>>>>>>> /martin >>>>>>>> OK. If we consider require-instance a constraint and not a >>>>>>>> restriction, then the motivation for this errata is at least >>>>>>>> confusing: >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Since no one argued against this understanding, this errata >>> changes >>>>>>>> the text to the same form as in other restrictions applicable >>> to >>>>>>>> derived types. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Simply put: Do you think it is OK to overwrite a >>>>>>>> require-instance true with a require-instance false in a derived= >>> type? >>>>>>> [RW] >>>>>>> I'm not sure, but going in the other direction seems plausible. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> E.g. you start with a typedef that is explicitly >>>>>>> require-instance false that is then refined by a typedef to be >>>>>>> require-instance true. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Regards, >>>>>>> Rob >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>>> /js >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> -- >>>>>>>> Juergen Schoenwaelder Jacobs University Bremen gGmbH >>>>>>>> Phone: +49 421 200 3587 Campus Ring 1 | 28759 Bremen | >>> Germany >>>>>>>> Fax: +49 421 200 3103 >> university.de/> >>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>> netmod mailing list >>>>>>>> netmod@ietf.org >>>>>>>> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/netmod >>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>> netmod mailing list >>>>>>> netmod@ietf.org >>>>>>> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/netmod >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> netmod mailing list >>>> netmod@ietf.org >>>> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/netmod >>> -- >>> Ladislav Lhotka >>> Head, CZ.NIC Labs >>> PGP Key ID: 0xB8F92B08A9F76C67 >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> netmod mailing list >>> netmod@ietf.org >>> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/netmod >> _______________________________________________ >> netmod mailing list >> netmod@ietf.org >> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/netmod --------------ms070203020901050407040107 Content-Type: application/pkcs7-signature; name="smime.p7s" Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 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X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-Id: f78e973e-5c0b-4ab8-bbd7-9887c95a8ebd X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-MailboxType: HOSTED X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-UserPrincipalName: +s531YnDZ/RJrJUZwbfQlljCwdMz30QVnNSzTv4Z5EX106NLJaBUlm54Un0mGDe8i164+bBU4tp24oSKXNe2AtL1wj/xExeB3RjQye9+2Q4= X-MS-Exchange-Transport-CrossTenantHeadersStamped: DB6P190MB0167 Archived-At: Subject: Re: [netmod] [Technical Errata Reported] RFC7950 (6031) X-BeenThere: netmod@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: NETMOD WG list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 06 Apr 2020 07:46:23 -0000 On Mon, Apr 06, 2020 at 08:51:46AM +0200, Radek Krejci wrote: > Hi, > I just want to emphasis, what are the consequences of the option 1. This > way, the tools are allowed to not accept require-instance in derived > types, so actually schema authors SHOULD NOT use require-instance this > way. Since there is at least 1 YANG model in RFC (8639 and I would > expect more), which has require-instance in the derive type, errata will > be needed in this case(s). > RFC 7950 says in 9.9.3: If this statement is not present, it defaults to "true". This means that require-instance is 'on by default'. Hence, it is necessary to use what RFC 7950 calls a 'restriction' (9.9.1) to effectively _remove_ what seems like a restriction (or constraint). (This text apparently has already been in RFC 6020.) The definition I found in RFC 8639 is this: leaf stream { type stream-ref { require-instance false; } mandatory true; description "Indicates the event stream to be considered for this subscription."; } This could be changed to: leaf stream { type leafref { path "/sn:streams/sn:stream/sn:name"; require-instance false; } mandatory true; description "Indicates the event stream to be considered for this subscription."; } What bothers me here is that I find the design of the default behaviour backwards. If the default would have been If this statement is not present, it defaults to "false". then require-instance could be used to add a constraint in derived types but not to remove it (like the other type restrictions). If people were to agree that the default here is wrong, can the problem be fixed? Likely not since changing the default (even in say YANG 2.0) could have drastic consequences and would essentially require to be always explicit about the require-instance property to be on the safe side. /js > Regards, > Radek > > > Dne 03. 04. 20 v 18:55 Juergen Schoenwaelder napsal(a): > > I propose option 1) and add an issue on yang-next (if not already > > there yet). > > > > /js > > > > On Fri, Apr 03, 2020 at 04:24:35PM +0000, Rob Wilton (rwilton) wrote: > >> For the errata, it looks like there are two choices: > >> > >> 1) We reject this errata, on the grounds that it is unclear on what the behaviour was expected to be. It is left unspecified as to whether require-instance is allowed in a typedef. We add an issue on the YANG.Next issue tracker to sort this out in a future revision of YANG. > >> > >> 2) We agree on what the expected behaviour should be, in which case it may be possible that this can be "Hold for document update", although it still seems questionable whether this really fits as an errata. > >> > >> Regards, > >> Rob > >> > >> > >>> -----Original Message----- > >>> From: netmod On Behalf Of Ladislav Lhotka > >>> Sent: 03 April 2020 15:52 > >>> To: netmod@ietf.org > >>> Subject: Re: [netmod] [Technical Errata Reported] RFC7950 (6031) > >>> > >>> On Fri, 2020-04-03 at 14:01 +0000, Sterne, Jason (Nokia - CA/Ottawa) > >>> wrote: > >>>> Hi Martin, > >>>> > >>>> I believe you that the technical "value space" doesn't change, but > >>>> that leaf would suddenly accept more values than it did before right? > >>>> I'm wondering if we want to follow the "spirit" here, or stick with the > >>> "value space" argument. > >>> > >>> I agree with Martin here. Moreover, if such a derived type is added, it > >>> doesn't change anything related to existing data, because they use the > >>> base type as before. New data nodes may use the new type but no confusion > >>> can arise - their type has "require-instance false", which is correct. > >>> > >>> Lada > >>> > >>>> I'm not really certain what the implications are (and maybe someone > >>>> has an example of why it is better to allow it?) but overwriting > >>>> require-instance with 'false' doesn't feel right. > >>>> > >>>> Jason > >>>> > >>>>> -----Original Message----- > >>>>> From: Martin Björklund > >>>>> Sent: Friday, April 3, 2020 9:54 AM > >>>>> To: Sterne, Jason (Nokia - CA/Ottawa) > >>>>> Cc: rwilton=40cisco.com@dmarc.ietf.org; j.schoenwaelder@jacobs- > >>>>> university.de; mbj+ietf@4668.se; warren@kumari.net; netmod@ietf.org; > >>>>> rfc- editor@rfc-editor.org > >>>>> Subject: Re: [netmod] [Technical Errata Reported] RFC7950 (6031) > >>>>> > >>>>> Hi, > >>>>> > >>>>> "Sterne, Jason (Nokia - CA/Ottawa)" wrote: > >>>>>> I don't think we should allow overwriting a require-instance true > >>>>>> with a require-instance false in a derived type. It seems to go > >>>>>> against the spirit of avoiding expansion of allowable values. > >>>>> As I wrote earlier in this thread, the value space doesn't change > >>>>> with require-instance. > >>>>> > >>>>> > >>>>> /martin > >>>>> > >>>>> > >>>>> > >>>>>> From section 4.1 of RFC7950: > >>>>>> > >>>>>> Derived types can restrict their base type's set of valid > >>>>>> values > >>>>>> > >>>>>> And this text in section 7.3.4 implies that derived types only do > >>>>>> further restriction: > >>>>>> > >>>>>> If the type's default value is not valid according to the new > >>>>>> restrictions specified in a derived type or leaf definition, the > >>>>>> derived type or leaf definition MUST specify a new default value > >>>>>> compatible with the restrictions. > >>>>>> > >>>>>> Going the other direction (overwriting with require-instance true) > >>>>>> seems OK to me. > >>>>>> > >>>>>> Jason > >>>>>> > >>>>>> > >>>>>>> -----Original Message----- > >>>>>>> From: netmod On Behalf Of Rob Wilton > >>>>>>> (rwilton) > >>>>>>> Sent: Friday, April 3, 2020 8:06 AM > >>>>>>> To: Juergen Schoenwaelder > >>>>>>> ; > >>>>>>> Martin > >>>>>>> Björklund > >>>>>>> Cc: warren@kumari.net; netmod@ietf.org; > >>>>>>> rfc-editor@rfc-editor.org > >>>>>>> Subject: Re: [netmod] [Technical Errata Reported] RFC7950 (6031) > >>>>>>> > >>>>>>> > >>>>>>> > >>>>>>>> -----Original Message----- > >>>>>>>> From: netmod On Behalf Of Juergen > >>>>>>> Schoenwaelder > >>>>>>>> Sent: 27 March 2020 16:13 > >>>>>>>> To: Martin Björklund > >>>>>>>> Cc: ibagdona@gmail.com; warren@kumari.net; netmod@ietf.org; > >>>>>>>> rfc- editor@rfc-editor.org > >>>>>>>> Subject: Re: [netmod] [Technical Errata Reported] RFC7950 > >>>>>>>> (6031) > >>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>> On Fri, Mar 27, 2020 at 04:35:44PM +0100, Martin Björklund > >>> wrote: > >>>>>>>>> [re-sent w/ correct address] > >>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>> Juergen Schoenwaelder > >>>>> wrote: > >>>>>>>>>> Hi, > >>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>> two comments: > >>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>> - It is unclear to me whether this really qualifies as an > >>> errata. > >>>>>>>>>> - If we add this, then there should probably text about > >>> which > >>>>>>>>>> combinations are allowed. For example, for pattern and > >>>>>>>>>> ranges, > >>>>> there > >>>>>>>>>> is explicit text that says further restrictions of the > >>>>>>>>>> value space > >>>>>>>>>> are possible, bot not expansions. If we follow that > >>>>>>>>>> logic, then > >>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>> typedef a { > >>>>>>>>>> type leaf-ref { > >>>>>>>>>> path "/some/thing"; > >>>>>>>>>> require-instance true; > >>>>>>>>>> } > >>>>>>>>>> } > >>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>> typedef b { > >>>>>>>>>> type a { > >>>>>>>>>> require-instance false; > >>>>>>>>>> } > >>>>>>>>>> } > >>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>> might be illegal since b has a larger value space than a. > >>>>>>>>> The value space of b is the same as for a. "require-instance" > >>>>>>>>> doesn't > >>>>>>>>> change the value space; it changes semantic validation of > >>>>>>>>> the given values ((see my mail from 17 Mar, "Require-instance > >>> problem"). > >>>>>>>>> /martin > >>>>>>>> OK. If we consider require-instance a constraint and not a > >>>>>>>> restriction, then the motivation for this errata is at least > >>>>>>>> confusing: > >>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>> Since no one argued against this understanding, this errata > >>> changes > >>>>>>>> the text to the same form as in other restrictions applicable > >>> to > >>>>>>>> derived types. > >>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>> Simply put: Do you think it is OK to overwrite a > >>>>>>>> require-instance true with a require-instance false in a derived > >>> type? > >>>>>>> [RW] > >>>>>>> I'm not sure, but going in the other direction seems plausible. > >>>>>>> > >>>>>>> E.g. you start with a typedef that is explicitly > >>>>>>> require-instance false that is then refined by a typedef to be > >>>>>>> require-instance true. > >>>>>>> > >>>>>>> Regards, > >>>>>>> Rob > >>>>>>> > >>>>>>> > >>>>>>>> /js > >>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>> -- > >>>>>>>> Juergen Schoenwaelder Jacobs University Bremen gGmbH > >>>>>>>> Phone: +49 421 200 3587 Campus Ring 1 | 28759 Bremen | > >>> Germany > >>>>>>>> Fax: +49 421 200 3103 >>> university.de/> > >>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ > >>>>>>>> netmod mailing list > >>>>>>>> netmod@ietf.org > >>>>>>>> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/netmod > >>>>>>> _______________________________________________ > >>>>>>> netmod mailing list > >>>>>>> netmod@ietf.org > >>>>>>> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/netmod > >>>> _______________________________________________ > >>>> netmod mailing list > >>>> netmod@ietf.org > >>>> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/netmod > >>> -- > >>> Ladislav Lhotka > >>> Head, CZ.NIC Labs > >>> PGP Key ID: 0xB8F92B08A9F76C67 > >>> > >>> _______________________________________________ > >>> netmod mailing list > >>> netmod@ietf.org > >>> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/netmod > >> _______________________________________________ > >> netmod mailing list > >> netmod@ietf.org > >> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/netmod > > > _______________________________________________ > netmod mailing list > netmod@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/netmod -- Juergen Schoenwaelder Jacobs University Bremen gGmbH Phone: +49 421 200 3587 Campus Ring 1 | 28759 Bremen | Germany Fax: +49 421 200 3103 From nobody Mon Apr 6 04:38:14 2020 Return-Path: X-Original-To: netmod@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: netmod@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id F27473A0F40 for ; 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Mon, 6 Apr 2020 07:38:06 -0400 (EDT) Date: Mon, 06 Apr 2020 13:38:05 +0200 (CEST) Message-Id: <20200406.133805.1967759410136484672.id@4668.se> To: j.schoenwaelder@jacobs-university.de Cc: rkrejci@cesnet.cz, netmod@ietf.org, rwilton=40cisco.com@dmarc.ietf.org From: Martin =?iso-8859-1?Q?Bj=F6rklund?= In-Reply-To: <20200406074235.o6gkpjsim77xfzv7@anna.jacobs.jacobs-university.de> References: <20200403165538.2lk4x5j32e3ctl4t@anna.jacobs.jacobs-university.de> <0a546588-6f87-3362-17da-37de8ea08956@cesnet.cz> <20200406074235.o6gkpjsim77xfzv7@anna.jacobs.jacobs-university.de> X-Mailer: Mew version 6.8 on Emacs 25.2 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: Text/Plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Archived-At: Subject: Re: [netmod] [Technical Errata Reported] RFC7950 (6031) X-BeenThere: netmod@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: NETMOD WG list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 06 Apr 2020 11:38:13 -0000 Juergen Schoenwaelder wrote: > On Mon, Apr 06, 2020 at 08:51:46AM +0200, Radek Krejci wrote: > > Hi, > > I just want to emphasis, what are the consequences of the option 1.= This > > way, the tools are allowed to not accept require-instance in derive= d > > types, so actually schema authors SHOULD NOT use require-instance t= his > > way. Since there is at least 1 YANG model in RFC (8639 and I would > > expect more), which has require-instance in the derive type, errata= will > > be needed in this case(s). > > > = > RFC 7950 says in 9.9.3: > = > If this statement is not present, it defaults to "true". > = > This means that require-instance is 'on by default'. Hence, it is > necessary to use what RFC 7950 calls a 'restriction' (9.9.1) to > effectively _remove_ what seems like a restriction (or constraint). > (This text apparently has already been in RFC 6020.) I think the correct fix is to change the text so that "require-instance" is not classified as a restriction and keep the default. Also, I think that it would be easiest (for backwards compatibility w/ existing models) to allow "require-inetance" to be changed in derived types. However, this cannot imo be done in an errata. /martin > = > The definition I found in RFC 8639 is this: > = > leaf stream { > type stream-ref { > require-instance false; > } > mandatory true; > description > "Indicates the event stream to be considered for > this subscription."; > } > = > This could be changed to: > = > leaf stream { > type leafref { > path "/sn:streams/sn:stream/sn:name"; > require-instance false; > } > mandatory true; > description > "Indicates the event stream to be considered for > this subscription."; > } > = > What bothers me here is that I find the design of the default > behaviour backwards. If the default would have been > = > If this statement is not present, it defaults to "false". > = > then require-instance could be used to add a constraint in derived > types but not to remove it (like the other type restrictions). > = > If people were to agree that the default here is wrong, can the > problem be fixed? Likely not since changing the default (even in say= > YANG 2.0) could have drastic consequences and would essentially > require to be always explicit about the require-instance property to > be on the safe side. > = > /js > = > > Regards, > > Radek > > = > > = > > Dne 03. 04. 20 v 18:55 Juergen Schoenwaelder napsal(a): > > > I propose option 1) and add an issue on yang-next (if not already= > > > there yet). > > > > > > /js > > > > > > On Fri, Apr 03, 2020 at 04:24:35PM +0000, Rob Wilton (rwilton) wr= ote: > > >> For the errata, it looks like there are two choices: > > >> > > >> 1) We reject this errata, on the grounds that it is unclear on w= hat the behaviour was expected to be. It is left unspecified as to whe= ther require-instance is allowed in a typedef. We add an issue on the = YANG.Next issue tracker to sort this out in a future revision of YANG. > > >> > > >> 2) We agree on what the expected behaviour should be, in which c= ase it may be possible that this can be "Hold for document update", alt= hough it still seems questionable whether this really fits as an errata= .= > > >> > > >> Regards, > > >> Rob > > >> = > > >> > > >>> -----Original Message----- > > >>> From: netmod On Behalf Of Ladislav Lh= otka > > >>> Sent: 03 April 2020 15:52 > > >>> To: netmod@ietf.org > > >>> Subject: Re: [netmod] [Technical Errata Reported] RFC7950 (6031= ) > > >>> > > >>> On Fri, 2020-04-03 at 14:01 +0000, Sterne, Jason (Nokia - CA/Ot= tawa) > > >>> wrote: > > >>>> Hi Martin, > > >>>> > > >>>> I believe you that the technical "value space" doesn't change,= but > > >>>> that leaf would suddenly accept more values than it did before= right? > > >>>> I'm wondering if we want to follow the "spirit" here, or stick= with the > > >>> "value space" argument. > > >>> > > >>> I agree with Martin here. Moreover, if such a derived type is a= dded, it > > >>> doesn't change anything related to existing data, because they = use the > > >>> base type as before. New data nodes may use the new type but no= confusion > > >>> can arise - their type has "require-instance false", which is c= orrect. > > >>> > > >>> Lada > > >>> > > >>>> I'm not really certain what the implications are (and maybe so= meone > > >>>> has an example of why it is better to allow it?) but overwriti= ng > > >>>> require-instance with 'false' doesn't feel right. > > >>>> > > >>>> Jason > > >>>> > > >>>>> -----Original Message----- > > >>>>> From: Martin Bj=F6rklund > > >>>>> Sent: Friday, April 3, 2020 9:54 AM > > >>>>> To: Sterne, Jason (Nokia - CA/Ottawa) > > >>>>> Cc: rwilton=3D40cisco.com@dmarc.ietf.org; j.schoenwaelder@jac= obs- > > >>>>> university.de; mbj+ietf@4668.se; warren@kumari.net; netmod@ie= tf.org; > > >>>>> rfc- editor@rfc-editor.org > > >>>>> Subject: Re: [netmod] [Technical Errata Reported] RFC7950 (60= 31) > > >>>>> > > >>>>> Hi, > > >>>>> > > >>>>> "Sterne, Jason (Nokia - CA/Ottawa)" = wrote: > > >>>>>> I don't think we should allow overwriting a require-instance= true > > >>>>>> with a require-instance false in a derived type. It seems to= go > > >>>>>> against the spirit of avoiding expansion of allowable values= .= > > >>>>> As I wrote earlier in this thread, the value space doesn't ch= ange > > >>>>> with require-instance. > > >>>>> > > >>>>> > > >>>>> /martin > > >>>>> > > >>>>> > > >>>>> > > >>>>>> From section 4.1 of RFC7950: > > >>>>>> > > >>>>>> Derived types can restrict their base type's set of = valid > > >>>>>> values > > >>>>>> > > >>>>>> And this text in section 7.3.4 implies that derived types on= ly do > > >>>>>> further restriction: > > >>>>>> > > >>>>>> If the type's default value is not valid according to th= e new > > >>>>>> restrictions specified in a derived type or leaf definiti= on, the > > >>>>>> derived type or leaf definition MUST specify a new defaul= t value > > >>>>>> compatible with the restrictions. > > >>>>>> > > >>>>>> Going the other direction (overwriting with require-instance= true) > > >>>>>> seems OK to me. > > >>>>>> > > >>>>>> Jason > > >>>>>> > > >>>>>> > > >>>>>>> -----Original Message----- > > >>>>>>> From: netmod On Behalf Of Rob Wil= ton > > >>>>>>> (rwilton) > > >>>>>>> Sent: Friday, April 3, 2020 8:06 AM > > >>>>>>> To: Juergen Schoenwaelder > > >>>>>>> ; > > >>>>>>> Martin > > >>>>>>> Bj=F6rklund > > >>>>>>> Cc: warren@kumari.net; netmod@ietf.org; > > >>>>>>> rfc-editor@rfc-editor.org > > >>>>>>> Subject: Re: [netmod] [Technical Errata Reported] RFC7950 (= 6031) > > >>>>>>> > > >>>>>>> > > >>>>>>> > > >>>>>>>> -----Original Message----- > > >>>>>>>> From: netmod On Behalf Of Juerge= n > > >>>>>>> Schoenwaelder > > >>>>>>>> Sent: 27 March 2020 16:13 > > >>>>>>>> To: Martin Bj=F6rklund > > >>>>>>>> Cc: ibagdona@gmail.com; warren@kumari.net; netmod@ietf.org= ; > > >>>>>>>> rfc- editor@rfc-editor.org > > >>>>>>>> Subject: Re: [netmod] [Technical Errata Reported] RFC7950 > > >>>>>>>> (6031) > > >>>>>>>> > > >>>>>>>> On Fri, Mar 27, 2020 at 04:35:44PM +0100, Martin Bj=F6rklu= nd > > >>> wrote: > > >>>>>>>>> [re-sent w/ correct address] > > >>>>>>>>> > > >>>>>>>>> Juergen Schoenwaelder > > >>>>> wrote: > > >>>>>>>>>> Hi, > > >>>>>>>>>> > > >>>>>>>>>> two comments: > > >>>>>>>>>> > > >>>>>>>>>> - It is unclear to me whether this really qualifies as a= n > > >>> errata. > > >>>>>>>>>> - If we add this, then there should probably text about > > >>> which > > >>>>>>>>>> combinations are allowed. For example, for pattern and= > > >>>>>>>>>> ranges, > > >>>>> there > > >>>>>>>>>> is explicit text that says further restrictions of the= > > >>>>>>>>>> value space > > >>>>>>>>>> are possible, bot not expansions. If we follow that > > >>>>>>>>>> logic, then > > >>>>>>>>>> > > >>>>>>>>>> typedef a { > > >>>>>>>>>> type leaf-ref { > > >>>>>>>>>> path "/some/thing"; > > >>>>>>>>>> require-instance true; > > >>>>>>>>>> } > > >>>>>>>>>> } > > >>>>>>>>>> > > >>>>>>>>>> typedef b { > > >>>>>>>>>> type a { > > >>>>>>>>>> require-instance false; > > >>>>>>>>>> } > > >>>>>>>>>> } > > >>>>>>>>>> > > >>>>>>>>>> might be illegal since b has a larger value space than= a. > > >>>>>>>>> The value space of b is the same as for a. "require-insta= nce" > > >>>>>>>>> doesn't > > >>>>>>>>> change the value space; it changes semantic validation of= > > >>>>>>>>> the given values ((see my mail from 17 Mar, "Require-inst= ance > > >>> problem"). > > >>>>>>>>> /martin > > >>>>>>>> OK. If we consider require-instance a constraint and not a= > > >>>>>>>> restriction, then the motivation for this errata is at lea= st > > >>>>>>>> confusing: > > >>>>>>>> > > >>>>>>>> Since no one argued against this understanding, this err= ata > > >>> changes > > >>>>>>>> the text to the same form as in other restrictions appli= cable > > >>> to > > >>>>>>>> derived types. > > >>>>>>>> > > >>>>>>>> Simply put: Do you think it is OK to overwrite a > > >>>>>>>> require-instance true with a require-instance false in a d= erived > > >>> type? > > >>>>>>> [RW] > > >>>>>>> I'm not sure, but going in the other direction seems plausi= ble. > > >>>>>>> > > >>>>>>> E.g. you start with a typedef that is explicitly > > >>>>>>> require-instance false that is then refined by a typedef to= be > > >>>>>>> require-instance true. > > >>>>>>> > > >>>>>>> Regards, > > >>>>>>> Rob > > >>>>>>> > > >>>>>>> > > >>>>>>>> /js > > >>>>>>>> > > >>>>>>>> -- > > >>>>>>>> Juergen Schoenwaelder Jacobs University Bremen g= GmbH > > >>>>>>>> Phone: +49 421 200 3587 Campus Ring 1 | 28759 Brem= en | > > >>> Germany > > >>>>>>>> Fax: +49 421 200 3103 > >>> university.de/> > > >>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ > > >>>>>>>> netmod mailing list > > >>>>>>>> netmod@ietf.org > > >>>>>>>> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/netmod > > >>>>>>> _______________________________________________ > > >>>>>>> netmod mailing list > > >>>>>>> netmod@ietf.org > > >>>>>>> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/netmod > > >>>> _______________________________________________ > > >>>> netmod mailing list > > >>>> netmod@ietf.org > > >>>> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/netmod > > >>> -- > > >>> Ladislav Lhotka > > >>> Head, CZ.NIC Labs > > >>> PGP Key ID: 0xB8F92B08A9F76C67 > > >>> > > >>> _______________________________________________ > > >>> netmod mailing list > > >>> netmod@ietf.org > > >>> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/netmod > > >> _______________________________________________ > > >> netmod mailing list > > >> netmod@ietf.org > > >> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/netmod > > = > > = > = > = > = > > _______________________________________________ > > netmod mailing list > > netmod@ietf.org > > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/netmod > = > = > -- = > Juergen Schoenwaelder Jacobs University Bremen gGmbH > Phone: +49 421 200 3587 Campus Ring 1 | 28759 Bremen | German= y > Fax: +49 421 200 3103 > = > _______________________________________________ > netmod mailing list > netmod@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/netmod From nobody Mon Apr 6 08:30:24 2020 Return-Path: X-Original-To: netmod@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: netmod@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 84EBA3A0A4D for ; 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Mon, 06 Apr 2020 08:30:09 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 References: <9AD3C4BB-7965-4776-84C4-6B5BFDCAA262@tzi.org> <15C8F1D1-B560-4D52-8D77-377C6B1C0518@tzi.org> In-Reply-To: <15C8F1D1-B560-4D52-8D77-377C6B1C0518@tzi.org> From: Andy Bierman Date: Mon, 6 Apr 2020 08:29:58 -0700 Message-ID: To: "core@ietf.org WG" Cc: NetMod WG Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="0000000000003c3f5e05a2a0f156" Archived-At: Subject: Re: [netmod] =?utf-8?b?W2NvcmVdIPCflJQgV0cgTGFzdCBDYWxsIG9mIENPUkVD?= =?utf-8?q?ONF_drafts=3A_draft-ietf-core-yang-cbor-12=2C_-sid-11=2C_-comi-?= =?utf-8?q?09=2C_-yang-library-01?= X-BeenThere: netmod@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: NETMOD WG list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 06 Apr 2020 15:30:12 -0000 --0000000000003c3f5e05a2a0f156 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable On Mon, Mar 9, 2020 at 6:05 AM Carsten Bormann wrote: > It took us a long time to get the four CORECONF drafts in sync, > but now we are ready for WGLC. > > This starts a working group last call for > =E2=80=94 draft-ietf-core-yang-cbor-12 > =E2=80=94 draft-ietf-core-sid-11 > =E2=80=94 draft-ietf-core-comi-09 > =E2=80=94 draft-ietf-core-yang-library-01 > > Sorry these comments are late. I reviewed these drafts. All my comments on sid-11 have been addressed. We plan to use CBOR+SID with YANG-Push in the near future and may implement CoMI later on. I believe all documents are ready for publication. Andy > ending on > > 24:00 UTC on Tuesday, March 31, 2020. > > (This includes some extra time for the IETF week and for cross-WG > coordination.) > > This WGLC is copied to the netmod WG mailing list; please do have a look > at these drafts as they are slated to become a part of the greater > YANG/NETCONF/RESTCONF family. We intend the discussion to be on the > CoRE mailing list, but if you find a fundamental issue with YANG or > RESTCONF, feel free to discuss that on netmod instead. > > Please start a new email thread for each major issue that will need > discussion and make sure the subject line includes the draft name and > some sort of name for the issue. (Minor issues such as typos can also > be sent to the authors.) > > If you read the draft and think it looks fine, please send a one line > email to the list or to the chairs letting us know that so we can get > a feel of how broad the review has been. > > (To reviewers and authors:) If you are aware of any patent claims that > might apply to systems that implement these drafts, please review BCP 78 > and BCP 79 and make any appropriate IPR declaration before the last-call > ends. If you are not sure whether you need to make a declaration or not, > please talk to the chairs and we will help. > > Gr=C3=BC=C3=9Fe, Carsten > > _______________________________________________ > core mailing list > core@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/core > --0000000000003c3f5e05a2a0f156 Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable


=
On Mon, Mar 9, 2020 at 6:05 AM Carste= n Bormann <cabo@tzi.org> wrote:
It took us a long= time to get the four CORECONF drafts in sync,
but now we are ready for WGLC.

This starts a working group last call for
=E2=80=94 draft-ietf-core-yang-cbor-12
=E2=80=94 draft-ietf-core-sid-11
=E2=80=94 draft-ietf-core-comi-09
=E2=80=94 draft-ietf-core-yang-library-01



Sorry these comments ar= e late.

I reviewed these drafts.
All my = comments on sid-11 have been addressed.
We plan to use CBOR+SID w= ith YANG-Push in the near future
and may implement CoMI later on.=
I believe all documents are ready for publication.
Andy
=C2=A0
ending on

=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 24:00 UTC on Tuesday, March 31, 2020.

(This includes some extra time for the IETF week and for cross-WG
coordination.)

This WGLC is copied to the netmod WG mailing list; please do have a look at these drafts as they are slated to become a part of the greater
YANG/NETCONF/RESTCONF family.=C2=A0 We intend the discussion to be on the CoRE mailing list, but if you find a fundamental issue with YANG or
RESTCONF, feel free to discuss that on netmod instead.

Please start a new email thread for each major issue that will need
discussion and make sure the subject line includes the draft name and
some sort of name for the issue.=C2=A0 (Minor issues such as typos can also=
be sent to the authors.)

If you read the draft and think it looks fine, please send a one line
email to the list or to the chairs letting us know that so we can get
a feel of how broad the review has been.

(To reviewers and authors:)=C2=A0 If you are aware of any patent claims tha= t
might apply to systems that implement these drafts, please review BCP 78 and BCP 79 and make any appropriate IPR declaration before the last-call ends. If you are not sure whether you need to make a declaration or not, please talk to the chairs and we will help.

Gr=C3=BC=C3=9Fe, Carsten

_______________________________________________
core mailing list
core@ietf.org
https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/core
--0000000000003c3f5e05a2a0f156-- From nobody Mon Apr 6 23:22:40 2020 Return-Path: X-Original-To: netmod@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: netmod@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0C3543A173B for ; Mon, 6 Apr 2020 23:22:38 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.898 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.898 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=ackl-io.20150623.gappssmtp.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id bJHs6qaW_nHv for ; Mon, 6 Apr 2020 23:22:33 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail-wm1-x335.google.com (mail-wm1-x335.google.com [IPv6:2a00:1450:4864:20::335]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 4A6C23A173C for ; Mon, 6 Apr 2020 23:22:33 -0700 (PDT) Received: by mail-wm1-x335.google.com with SMTP id c195so506532wme.1 for ; Mon, 06 Apr 2020 23:22:33 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=ackl-io.20150623.gappssmtp.com; s=20150623; h=mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date:message-id:subject:to :cc; bh=tXe3/5SJohzwwOJ8f16rp8szi6HRnT2YhV6+MTvkyH4=; b=C40iZPO1Of9nHCOEcnH+zv9bmxOyDS0CxkH7w/6Xt+6nf7YsvxoiGukgVc4in8tk8P ZKhPbGqgjk5Fn7l46xWPw42Sb4HEWJwkSFM7VCCRprzZkyGuqe2gGzlGGVcZxS38K2oH 08LBg8auQNZJY712y/yCrVs6NgyKXTCxnZNzbcpKGIcq7smhPd+YePzplGd5vy0g10Ff a3Y1xgTv5/hSaN6L76+Ooxx2Vst5yZbtltZnHrRoEDf0rCRVswCp628O0x9K0OBoZmWT OB4cu5mPjw1lrDm2MvSPl4EieyaWKlUEQWq+utamnLnclY6PIuA4PQsDR5XW+VPjF1Rq 35eA== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date :message-id:subject:to:cc; bh=tXe3/5SJohzwwOJ8f16rp8szi6HRnT2YhV6+MTvkyH4=; b=Crbmhkb78k0x/yHuhFTCUmEdQbA+54xvh86ZXwqrszHVeO4gL+NxRhybtbctg0K/95 2smJcvFuuyD1qSLa8mamPeUv47cx7T9HpVho3IZy6XO+7y1lwI5DstMmgJUcWCQX0m/A WjGAG5JZ6yjkyXNRuc5WCcbdRMSzbrPJ0EZynem9HxBHrPpD78AFtr0xqtyP344m8YSW A6Cq16deR52dZWJlYkYdYL5QODIrPPtYJrSs19SRIAVilzNeI0sQBFU6ZPo50ZONBZhF uy97ibXGjcbgXeCTdXouuREsYcvpuL7lUs+G+G0B3ONw9CJ81/aHCPNmMBGA9tgUx5Xw 8BoQ== X-Gm-Message-State: AGi0PuaxSetNO20NVj8gsbhzsosFR0ycM2WI3sdz0ifRrvTILuXFZZ9k cYVz/9SUNQTxSkyHueKq2zTb/SpmkfHZ3PKZkIQ+TFfd X-Google-Smtp-Source: APiQypJdlOVhfZh/4UmAaV00/bXIqOc+2RGD9rN1rjikQtAvyI4wxc3Mm3mww8Jwv2pBRQ5B99Id5NqIXPMlW7Ma2Ss= X-Received: by 2002:a1c:e242:: with SMTP id z63mr687626wmg.72.1586240551585; Mon, 06 Apr 2020 23:22:31 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 References: <9AD3C4BB-7965-4776-84C4-6B5BFDCAA262@tzi.org> <15C8F1D1-B560-4D52-8D77-377C6B1C0518@tzi.org> In-Reply-To: From: Ivaylo Petrov Date: Tue, 7 Apr 2020 08:22:05 +0200 Message-ID: To: peter van der Stok Cc: Core , netmod@ietf.org Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="0000000000009b130405a2ad6894" Archived-At: Subject: Re: [netmod] =?utf-8?b?W2NvcmVdIPCflJQgV0cgTGFzdCBDYWxsIG9mIENPUkVD?= =?utf-8?q?ONF_drafts=3A_draft-ietf-core-yang-cbor-12=2C_-sid-11=2C_-comi-?= =?utf-8?q?09=2C_-yang-library-01?= X-BeenThere: netmod@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: NETMOD WG list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 07 Apr 2020 06:22:38 -0000 --0000000000009b130405a2ad6894 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Hello Peter, Thank you for your reviews and your comments! It is true that currently we mandate each SID mega range to have 1000000 SIDs in 6.1 and the size in 6.2 is not strictly speaking necessary. I believe the idea of having this information is so that any software that is written today to work with this registry has all the necessary information inside the registry. If in the future we decide to change this limit to 500K or 5M this software can remain intact. If this is a big concern for you, do not hesitate to let us know and we will discuss further. Best regards, Ivaylo On Tue, Mar 31, 2020 at 2:16 PM Peter van der Stok wrote: > Dear all, > > I have reread draft-ietf-core-yang-sid. > I am quite happy that this document enters its final processing stage. > The document satisfies our wishes expressed earlier. > > One small point: > In section 6.2.2 the size seems superfluous as all ranges have the same > size. > > Greetings, > > Peter > _______________________________________________ > core mailing list > core@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/core > --0000000000009b130405a2ad6894 Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Hello Peter,

T= hank you for your reviews and your comments!=C2=A0

=
It is true that currently we mandate each SID mega range to have 1= 000000 SIDs in 6.1 and the size in 6.2 is not strictly speaking necessary. = I believe the idea of having this information is so that any software that = is written today to work with this registry has all the necessary informati= on inside the registry. If in the future we decide to change this limit to = 500K or 5M this software can remain intact. If this is a big concern for yo= u, do not hesitate to let us know and we will discuss further.

Best regards,
Ivaylo
=


On Tue, Mar 31, 2020 at 2:16 PM Peter van d= er Stok <stokco= ns@bbhmail.nl> wrote:
Dear all,

I have reread draft-ietf-core-yang-sid.
I am quite happ= y that this document enters its final processing stage.
The document sat= isfies our wishes expressed earlier.

One small point:
In section = 6.2.2 the size seems superfluous as all ranges have the same size.

G= reetings,

Peter
_______________________________________________
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boundary="----=_NextPart_001_0239_01D60CC7.28F469A0" ------=_NextPart_001_0239_01D60CC7.28F469A0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hello Mahesh, Kent, I was wondering how the JSON encoding of event would look like in your draft. (I intend to propose something similar to 3GPP so I am most interested.) The part below push-update or push-change-update is well defined in YANG however the part outside is not. In Restconf (https://trac.tools.ietf.org/html/rfc8040#section-6.4) I see the following example: { "ietf-restconf:notification" : { "eventTime" : "2013-12-21T00:01:00Z", "example-mod:event" : { "event-class" : "fault", "reporting-entity" : { "card" : "Ethernet0" }, "severity" : "major" } } } However how would the first 2 lines look here? IMHO keeping restconf as a module name seems wrong. So maybe we should define it here in this draft : { "json-yang-notification:notification" : { "eventTime" : "2013-12-21T00:01:00Z", "push-change-update" : { ... } } } How to define this wrapper (the first 2 lines, I am unsure. As far as I know it is not possible to describe this in YANG. Maybe just some text like: The YANG encoding of the notification SHALL be wrapped in a JSON object as illustrated below "json-yang-notification:notification" : { "eventTime" : "2013-12-21T00:01:00Z", Also I would definitely need an example of a notification sent. Regards Balazs -- Balazs Lengyel Senior Specialist Ericsson Hungary Ltd. Mobile: +36-70-330-7909 email: Balazs.Lengyel@ericsson.com ------=_NextPart_001_0239_01D60CC7.28F469A0 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

Hello Mahesh, Kent,

I was wondering how the JSON encoding of event would = look like in your draft. (I intend to propose something similar to 3GPP = so I am most interested.)

The part = below push-update or push-change-update is well defined in YANG however = the part outside is not. In Restconf (https://tra= c.tools.ietf.org/html/rfc8040#section-6.4) I see the following = example:

 

{

= "ietf-restconf:notification" : {

=A0=A0"eventTime" : = "2013-12-21T00:01:00Z",

=A0=A0"example-mod:event" : {

=A0=A0=A0=A0"event-class" : = "fault",

= =A0=A0=A0=A0"reporting-entity" : { "card" : = "Ethernet0" },

= =A0=A0=A0=A0"severity" : = "major"

=A0=A0} } = }

 

However how would the first 2 lines look here? IMHO = keeping restconf as a module name seems wrong.

So maybe we should define it here in this draft = :

{

 =
"json-yang-notification:notification" : {

=A0=A0"eventTime" : = "2013-12-21T00:01:00Z",

=A0=A0"push-change-update" : {

=A0=A0=A0 ...

=A0=A0} } = }

 

How to define this wrapper (the first 2 lines, I am = unsure. As far as I know it is not possible to describe this in YANG. = =A0Maybe just some text like:

The = YANG encoding of the notification SHALL be wrapped in a JSON object as = illustrated below

 

"json-yang-notification:=
notification" : {

= =A0=A0"eventTime" : = "2013-12-21T00:01:00Z",

 

 

Also I would = definitely need an example of a notification sent.

Regards Balazs

 

-- =

Balazs = Lengyel=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0 =A0Senior = Specialist=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0= =A0 Ericsson Hungary Ltd.

Mobile: = +36-70-330-7909=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0 email: = Balazs.Lengyel@ericsson.com

 

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<01000171548a786b-6a9c7e4d-37f1-4a0f-a1a3-8b25a3ac8b7b-000000@amazonses.watsen.net> X-Original-To: netmod@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: netmod@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 572593A0538; Tue, 7 Apr 2020 05:08:16 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.896 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.896 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, MIME_QP_LONG_LINE=0.001, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_H2=-0.001, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_NONE=0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=unavailable autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (1024-bit key) header.d=amazonses.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id xRZX9kYvOG4O; Tue, 7 Apr 2020 05:08:15 -0700 (PDT) Received: from a8-31.smtp-out.amazonses.com (a8-31.smtp-out.amazonses.com [54.240.8.31]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 999783A0529; Tue, 7 Apr 2020 05:08:14 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; q=dns/txt; c=relaxed/simple; s=224i4yxa5dv7c2xz3womw6peuasteono; d=amazonses.com; t=1586261293; h=Content-Type:Content-Transfer-Encoding:Mime-Version:Subject:From:In-Reply-To:Cc:Date:Message-Id:References:To:Feedback-ID; bh=juSNCq1CZbrMFzkH7A2pHX7UDJiKRIEz3E1u50nESOY=; b=kHBvfohwHlkYmrBd70yY2ZbBe/SGl/5bInxvKGHsBuWpmrbn0piIg0BH0oBt6ABd Ez9idIJLxg0rxMVIdqbXyA40Qpo8r6ik01EXHwj7b0h90LMmMgQl/YPAS/5sHzxuknq khPmOlAlaB6tH15uFjV/ngOITXbVTT3lRcwcpjxM= Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=Apple-Mail-A9E3B5E9-190A-4623-B4D4-A15C381D7403 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Mime-Version: 1.0 (1.0) From: Kent Watsen In-Reply-To: Cc: Oskar Malm , "netconf@ietf.org" Date: Tue, 7 Apr 2020 12:08:13 +0000 Message-ID: <01000171548a786b-6a9c7e4d-37f1-4a0f-a1a3-8b25a3ac8b7b-000000@email.amazonses.com> References: To: =?utf-8?Q?Bal=C3=A1zs_Lengyel?= X-Mailer: iPhone Mail (17D50) X-SES-Outgoing: 2020.04.07-54.240.8.31 Feedback-ID: 1.us-east-1.DKmIRZFhhsBhtmFMNikgwZUWVrODEw9qVcPhqJEI2DA=:AmazonSES Archived-At: X-Mailman-Approved-At: Tue, 07 Apr 2020 06:29:31 -0700 Subject: [netmod] JSON encoding of events in draft-ietf-netconf-https-notif X-BeenThere: netmod@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: NETMOD WG list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 07 Apr 2020 12:08:16 -0000 --Apple-Mail-A9E3B5E9-190A-4623-B4D4-A15C381D7403 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Moving to =E2=80=9Cnetconf=E2=80=9D (=E2=80=9Cnetmod=E2=80=9D in BCC) K.=20 Sent from my iPhone >> On Apr 7, 2020, at 4:35 AM, Bal=C3=A1zs Lengyel wrote: > =EF=BB=BF > Hello Mahesh, Kent, > I was wondering how the JSON encoding of event would look like in your dra= ft. (I intend to propose something similar to 3GPP so I am most interested.)= > The part below push-update or push-change-update is well defined in YANG h= owever the part outside is not. In Restconf (https://trac.tools.ietf.org/htm= l/rfc8040#section-6.4) I see the following example: > =20 > { > "ietf-restconf:notification" : { > "eventTime" : "2013-12-21T00:01:00Z", > "example-mod:event" : { > "event-class" : "fault", > "reporting-entity" : { "card" : "Ethernet0" }, > "severity" : "major" > } } } > =20 > However how would the first 2 lines look here? IMHO keeping restconf as a m= odule name seems wrong. > So maybe we should define it here in this draft : > { > "json-yang-notification:notification" : { > "eventTime" : "2013-12-21T00:01:00Z", > "push-change-update" : { > ... > } } } > =20 > How to define this wrapper (the first 2 lines, I am unsure. As far as I kn= ow it is not possible to describe this in YANG. Maybe just some text like: > The YANG encoding of the notification SHALL be wrapped in a JSON object as= illustrated below > =20 > "json-yang-notification:notification" : { > "eventTime" : "2013-12-21T00:01:00Z", > =20 > =20 > Also I would definitely need an example of a notification sent. > Regards Balazs > =20 > -- > Balazs Lengyel Senior Specialist E= ricsson Hungary Ltd. > Mobile: +36-70-330-7909 email: Balazs.Lengyel@ericsson.com --Apple-Mail-A9E3B5E9-190A-4623-B4D4-A15C381D7403 Content-Type: text/html; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Moving to =E2=80=9Cnetconf=E2= =80=9D (=E2=80=9Cnetmod=E2=80=9D in BCC)

K. 



Sent from my iPhone
=
On Apr 7, 2020, at 4:35 AM, Bal=C3=A1zs Lengyel &l= t;balazs.lengyel=3D40ericsson.com@dmarc.ietf.org> wrote:

=EF=BB=BF

Hello Mahesh, Kent,

I was wond= ering how the JSON encoding of event would look like in your draft. (I inten= d to propose something similar to 3GPP so I am most interested.)<= /p>

The part below push-update or push-change-update i= s well defined in YANG however the part outside is not. In Restconf (https://trac.tools= .ietf.org/html/rfc8040#section-6.4) I see the following example:

 

{

"ietf-restconf:notification" : {

  "eventTime" : "2013-12-21T00:01:00Z",<= o:p>

  "example-mod:event" : {

    "event-class" : "= fault",

    "repor= ting-entity" : { "card" : "Ethernet0" },

  } } }

 

However how would the first 2 lines l= ook here? IMHO keeping restconf as a module name seems wrong.

So maybe we should define it here in this draft :

{

 "json-yang-notifica=
tion:notification" : {

  "eventTi= me" : "2013-12-21T00:01:00Z",

 &n= bsp;"push-change-update" : {

 &nbs= p;  ...

  } } }

 

How to define this wrapper (the first 2 lines, I am unsure. As far as I= know it is not possible to describe this in YANG.  Maybe just some tex= t like:

The YANG encoding of the notifi= cation SHALL be wrapped in a JSON object as illustrated below

=

 

"json-yang-notification:not=
ification" : {

  "eventTime" : "2= 013-12-21T00:01:00Z",

 = ;

 

Also I would definitely need an example of a notification sent.=

Regards Balazs

 

--

Balazs Lengyel        &n= bsp;           Senior Spec= ialist           &nbs= p;           Ericsson Hung= ary Ltd.

Mobile: +36-70-330-7909 =              ema= il: Balazs.Lengyel@ericsson.com

&n= bsp;

= --Apple-Mail-A9E3B5E9-190A-4623-B4D4-A15C381D7403-- From nobody Tue Apr 7 06:30:12 2020 Return-Path: X-Original-To: netmod@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: netmod@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0A2A43A09CA for ; Tue, 7 Apr 2020 06:30:09 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.898 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.898 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=ackl-io.20150623.gappssmtp.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id ibdGc2-3WohV for ; Tue, 7 Apr 2020 06:30:06 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail-wm1-x334.google.com (mail-wm1-x334.google.com [IPv6:2a00:1450:4864:20::334]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 9EE683A09C7 for ; Tue, 7 Apr 2020 06:30:05 -0700 (PDT) Received: by mail-wm1-x334.google.com with SMTP id f20so1831141wmh.3 for ; Tue, 07 Apr 2020 06:30:05 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=ackl-io.20150623.gappssmtp.com; s=20150623; h=mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date:message-id:subject:to :cc; bh=8ATMdTvYksTMevIuulVvnxv9zyxIHXOaOR4+1iaUrHA=; b=Wu9TjYqJIylMxTN3kbv4zxySFigFklVlNADHsddl3MmVlEpCxRunvvMc5WPQIhqsDh glRwzt8/Zzp9GYpTQv34/qCAX6CvUhx4YfdxK6NxSDRAV+g3uqEHYNRXJbVzBS8qoIAZ wXwlYMe6/V4dPI+sV/Y1DmvYXIGezcqJWhzFEE/aAFbmHQrXhb+sO9A/mZIV423LlzZK d4TkxQQjKK75se2vAODKbD1OkmAzKZCpbmo+3I6s6Ow+gXaNFNLnHrYufo7kOwhX4mZd 1/jCB40BHtXKCodiJn4jPa++imwpjr84wvCKQAOOSsGOktPtTYOTEAAr2kZKOVLTNHQ6 ek+Q== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date :message-id:subject:to:cc; bh=8ATMdTvYksTMevIuulVvnxv9zyxIHXOaOR4+1iaUrHA=; b=n84ek+3ThKgk/iSSIQscvD5yqv8JG70R3ZmiP8xdnXfnRBFi5mOsA1FUmv47y8moOy UWwuGGJhRjKYKlDGvkRlGu34nKImupuRWQmddz7UNaGzQwRU6uOWmG0DBHCw8oZOviSR 9npYHy+tkdV7PdsguIqH1hMwoKQpXKGxiobJPrF/YYGGYFfR0VMQ36YPwD8HfWqXbwi8 x1awcEhsITCfU8cGM89MpNy3D2eIf1LLmqfSf/uuGUM7eAqLN/GHiC4m2urFklE3ygWS Bxw/x5pZOl2Rx5GmGLsCpWkgMZd0yxGbI0dcETTEeT5Z1UpIg9ZRzCE3D1gxR4uISVmf h81w== X-Gm-Message-State: AGi0PubcFDDHYO6KqFhxQ2ekZelrRlz3UqAPUc67IVyGNQvpabRgyCkj hJTQJk0RGs0/J3rHQqLan3rYS5Uisq1805eKh4cjSA== X-Google-Smtp-Source: APiQypJ6HPkBJ53UkpFbASJXprnR2PuOhyLv8Ffip4G3QVAwU+tZihoC9lNH+Msv+NlxrUDBRyScp2uR9hvDL/yB08c= X-Received: by 2002:a1c:32c7:: with SMTP id y190mr2545553wmy.13.1586266203831; Tue, 07 Apr 2020 06:30:03 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 References: In-Reply-To: From: Ivaylo Petrov Date: Tue, 7 Apr 2020 15:29:37 +0200 Message-ID: To: Esko Dijk Cc: "core@ietf.org WG" , "netmod@ietf.org" Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="00000000000099510605a2b3615a" Archived-At: Subject: Re: [netmod] =?utf-8?b?W2NvcmVdIPCflJQgV0cgTGFzdCBDYWxsIG9mIENPUkVD?= =?utf-8?q?ONF_drafts=3A_draft-ietf-core-yang-cbor-12=2C_-sid-11=2C_-comi-?= =?utf-8?q?09=2C_-yang-library-01_/_-yang-cbor-12_review?= X-BeenThere: netmod@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: NETMOD WG list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 07 Apr 2020 13:30:09 -0000 --00000000000099510605a2b3615a Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hello Esko, Thank you for your review and your comments! They truly help us improve this document. Please find my answers below (prefixed with [IP]). Note that the diff after handing your comments and those of Juergen Schoenwaelder can be found at [1]. Best regards, Ivaylo [1]: https://tools.ietf.org/rfcdiff?url1=3Ddraft-ietf-core-yang-cbor&url2=3Dhttp= ://core-wg.github.io/yang-cbor/draft-ietf-core-yang-cbor-latest.txt On Mon, Mar 30, 2020 at 2:24 PM Esko Dijk wrote: > Hello CoRE, > > I did a review of draft-ietf-core-yang-cbor-12 and some comments are > below. I do support the publication of this document but feel a few updat= es > of minor items are still needed! See the items below: > > Section 3: "This specification supports two type of CBOR keys" -> two > types of CBOR keys > [IP]: Fixed Section 3: This root CBOR map is provided only as a typical usage example > and is > not part of the present encoding rules. Only the value within this > CBOR map is compulsory. > -> Not fully clear to me, how can an example be compulsory? Other values > within the CBOR map could also be used, right? Also it wasn't fully clear > to me how the data structure would otherwise be encoded if not with a roo= t > CBOR map. Maybe good to give an example of how it would otherwise be > encoded if not with a root CBOR map! > [IP]: This stems from the separation between CoMI and YANG to CBOR - in CoMI we have complete examples with the complete encoding of elements that were requested, whereas here we provide only instructions how particular elements need to be encoded - regardless of the fact that they might be a part of a bigger payload or part of a protocol that handles the external wrapping. Where this causes issues is SID deltas for example - without the wrapping elements, it would not be clear how that would work. Please let us know if you could think of a better way to express this. > Section 3.1: Table 1 uses both uppercase and lowercase in the last column > for the CBOR encoding. Best practice is to use either uppercase or > lowercase for hexadecimal, but not mixed I think. > [IP]: Fixed > Section 4.5.2: "example-port: example-port-fault" : > -> space after ':' is to be removed. At least I think a space isn't > allowed there. > [IP]: Fixed > Section 3.3 / 4.5.1 "as follow" > -> as follows > [IP]: Fixed > Section 4.6: "data items tagged with one of the tag listed" > -> the tags listed > [IP]: Fixed Section 4.6: the "anyxml bar" definition should have "# SID 60000" comment, > like for the other YANG definitions that have a "# SID ....." comment . > [IP]: Fixed > Section 5.1: "YANG template encoded using SIDs are carried in " > -> YANG templates ... > [IP]: Changed request from Juergen Schoenwaelder made this look like: The yang-data extensions encoded using SIDs are carried in a CBOR map containing a single item pair. The key of this item is set to the SID assigned to the YANG template container, the value is set the CBOR encoding of this container as defined in {{container}}. > Section 5.2 similar sentence as 5.1 above > [IP]: Fixed similarly to the above one. > Section 6.6 example: > type union { > type int32; > type enumeration { > enum "unbounded"; > } > } > > unclear why "unbounded" is within quotes? The CBOR encoding of this > example encodes the word 'unbounded' without the quotes, which would look > like: > type enumeration { > enum unbounded; > } > An open question to me is whether RFC 7950 section 9.12.4 has the word > unbounded in quotes on purpose, or by mistake. None of the other examples > of enum statements use the quotes! Why would this example suddenly use th= e > quotes? In any case if quotes are used then per RFC 7950 definitions the > quotes must also be encoded as part of the yang-string. > [IP]: I believe that was copied indeed from RFC 7950 as it is. I could not find a reason why it should be with quotes, so I removed them as you suggested. > Section 6.6: Tag 44 use - in section 8.1, the table states that the tag > must mark a data item of type unsigned integer. Which is not the case her= e, > it marks a string. > [IP]: It should be a "text string" in Section 8.1. This has changed relatively recently and obviously we overlooked the values in the table. Fixed now > Section 6.7: similar to section 6.6, the tag 43 mentions data item "byte > string" in Section 8.1 while in section 6.7 it is followed by a text stri= ng. > Just to be clear: if a 'bits' type is encoded, it looks like the tag 43 i= s > only used if followed by a text string as in 43("under-repair critical") = ? > Or should a tag 43 also be used in case a CBOR byte string follows? > E.g. 43(h'06') instead of h'06' ? That doesn't seem to be the intention i= n > the current text. > [IP]: It should be a "text string" in Section 8.1. Fixed now. My reading of this is that the tag 43 can only be used inside unions. Section 8.1: could indicate here what the column 'Data Item' means. E.g. > make clear that the CBOR data item following the tag listed in the first > column cell must be of one of the CBOR data types listed in the second > column cell. > [IP]: This is the column title used in section 7.2 of RFC7049. If you believe that the sentence right before the table is not clear enough, please let us know how we could improve it. Best regards > Esko > > > IoTconsultancy.nl | Email/Skype: esko.dijk@iotconsultancy.nl > > > -----Original Message----- > From: core On Behalf Of Carsten Bormann > Sent: Monday, March 9, 2020 14:05 > To: core > Cc: netmod@ietf.org > Subject: [core] =F0=9F=94=94 WG Last Call of CORECONF drafts: > draft-ietf-core-yang-cbor-12, -sid-11, -comi-09, -yang-library-01 > > It took us a long time to get the four CORECONF drafts in sync, > but now we are ready for WGLC. > > This starts a working group last call for > =E2=80=94 draft-ietf-core-yang-cbor-12 > =E2=80=94 draft-ietf-core-sid-11 > =E2=80=94 draft-ietf-core-comi-09 > =E2=80=94 draft-ietf-core-yang-library-01 > > ending on > > 24:00 UTC on Tuesday, March 31, 2020. > > (This includes some extra time for the IETF week and for cross-WG > coordination.) > > This WGLC is copied to the netmod WG mailing list; please do have a look > at these drafts as they are slated to become a part of the greater > YANG/NETCONF/RESTCONF family. We intend the discussion to be on the > CoRE mailing list, but if you find a fundamental issue with YANG or > RESTCONF, feel free to discuss that on netmod instead. > > Please start a new email thread for each major issue that will need > discussion and make sure the subject line includes the draft name and > some sort of name for the issue. (Minor issues such as typos can also > be sent to the authors.) > > If you read the draft and think it looks fine, please send a one line > email to the list or to the chairs letting us know that so we can get > a feel of how broad the review has been. > > (To reviewers and authors:) If you are aware of any patent claims that > might apply to systems that implement these drafts, please review BCP 78 > and BCP 79 and make any appropriate IPR declaration before the last-call > ends. If you are not sure whether you need to make a declaration or not, > please talk to the chairs and we will help. > > Gr=C3=BC=C3=9Fe, Carsten > > _______________________________________________ > core mailing list > core@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/core > _______________________________________________ > core mailing list > core@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/core > --00000000000099510605a2b3615a Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Hello Esko,

Thank you for your= review and your=C2=A0comments! They truly help us improve this document. P= lease find my answers below (prefixed with [IP]). Note that the diff after = handing your comments and those of=C2=A0Juergen Schoenwaelder can be found at [1].=C2=A0=
=

Best regards,=
Ivaylo

<= /div>
= [1]:=C2=A0https://tools.ietf.org/rfcd= iff?url1=3Ddraft-ietf-core-yang-cbor&url2=3Dhttp://core-wg.github.io/ya= ng-cbor/draft-ietf-core-yang-cbor-latest.txt
=
On Mon, Mar 30, 2020 at 2:24 PM Esko Dijk <esko.dijk@iotco= nsultancy.nl> wrote:
Hello CoRE,

I did a review of draft-ietf-core-yang-cbor-12 and some comments are below.= I do support the publication of this document but feel a few updates of mi= nor items are still needed! See the items below:

Section 3: "This specification supports two ty= pe of CBOR keys" -> two types of CBOR keys
=C2= =A0
[IP]: Fixed=C2=A0

Section 3: T= his root CBOR map is provided only as a typical usage example and is
=C2=A0 =C2=A0not part of the present encoding rules.=C2=A0 Only the value w= ithin this CBOR map is compulsory.
-> Not fully clear to me, how can an example be compulsory? Other values= within the CBOR map could also be used, right? Also it wasn't fully cl= ear to me how the data structure would otherwise be encoded if not with a r= oot CBOR map. Maybe good to give an example of how it would otherwise be en= coded if not with a root CBOR map!
=C2=A0
[IP]: This stems from the s= eparation between CoMI and YANG to CBOR - in CoMI we have complete examples= with the complete encoding of elements that were requested, whereas here w= e provide only instructions how particular elements need to be encoded - re= gardless of the fact that they might be a part of a bigger payload or part = of a protocol that handles the external wrapping. Where this causes issues = is SID deltas for example - without the wrapping elements, it would not be = clear how that would work. Please let us know if you could think of a bette= r way to express this.
=C2=A0
Section 3.1: Table 1 uses both uppercase and lowercase in the last column f= or the CBOR encoding. Best practice is to use either uppercase or lowercase= for hexadecimal, but not mixed I think.

[IP]: Fixed
=C2=A0
Section 4.5.2: "example-port: example-port-fault" :
-> space after ':' is to be removed. At least I think a space is= n't allowed there.

[IP]: Fixed
=C2=A0
Section 3.3 / 4.5.1 "as follow"
-> as follows

[IP= ]: Fixed
=C2=A0
Section 4.6: "data items tagged with one of th= e tag listed"
-> the tags listed
=C2=A0
[IP]: Fixed=C2=A0

Section 4.6: the "anyxml bar" definition should have "# SID = 60000" comment, like for the other YANG definitions that have a "= # SID ....." comment .

[IP]: Fixed
=C2=A0
<= blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-l= eft:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex"> Section 5.1: "YANG template encoded using SIDs are carried in " -> YANG templates ...

[IP]: Changed request from Juergen Schoenwaelder made this look like:<= /font>

The yang-data extensions encoded using SIDs are ca= rried in a CBOR map containing a single item pair. The key of this item is = set to the SID assigned to the YANG template container, the value is set th= e CBOR encoding of this container as defined in {{container}}.
=
=C2=A0
Section 5.2 similar sentence as 5.1 above

[IP]: Fixed similarly to the above one.
<= /div>
=C2=A0
Section 6.6 example:
=C2=A0 type union {
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0type int32;
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0type enumeration {
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0enum "unbounded";
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0}
=C2=A0 =C2=A0}

unclear why "unbounded" is within quotes? The CBOR encoding of th= is example encodes the word 'unbounded' without the quotes, which w= ould look like:
=C2=A0 =C2=A0type enumeration {
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0enum unbounded;
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0}
An open question to me is whether RFC 7950 section 9.12.4 has the word unbo= unded in quotes on purpose, or by mistake. None of the other examples of en= um statements use the quotes! Why would this example suddenly use the quote= s? In any case if quotes are used then per RFC 7950 definitions the quotes = must also be encoded as part of the yang-string.

<= /div>
[IP]:=C2=A0I believe that was copied indeed from RFC 7950 as it is. I could n= ot find a reason why it should be with quotes, so I removed them as you sug= gested.
=C2=A0
Section 6.6: Tag 44 use - in sec= tion 8.1, the table states that the tag must mark a data item of type unsig= ned integer. Which is not the case here, it marks a string.

[IP]: It should be a "text str= ing" in Section 8.1. This has changed relatively recently and obviousl= y we overlooked the values in the table. Fixed now
= =C2=A0
Section 6.7: similar to section 6.6, the tag 43 mentions data item "by= te string" in Section 8.1 while in section 6.7 it is followed by a tex= t string.
Just to be clear: if a 'bits' type is encoded, it looks like the ta= g 43 is only used if followed by a text string as in 43("under-repair = critical") ? Or should a tag 43 also be used in case a CBOR byte strin= g follows?
E.g. 43(h'06') instead of h'06' ? That doesn't seem to = be the intention in the current text.
=C2=A0
[IP]: It should be a "text string" in Section= 8.1. Fixed now. My reading of this is that the tag 43 can only be used ins= ide unions.

Section 8.1: could indicate here what the column 'Data Item' means.= E.g. make clear that the CBOR data item following the tag listed in the fi= rst column cell must be of one of the CBOR data types listed in the second = column cell.

[IP]: This i= s the column title used in section 7.2 of RFC7049. If you believe that the = sentence right before the table is not clear enough, please let us know how= we could improve it.

Best regards
Esko


IoTconsultancy.nl=C2=A0 |=C2=A0 Email/Skype: esko.dijk@iotconsultancy.nl


-----Original Message-----
From: core <c= ore-bounces@ietf.org> On Behalf Of Carsten Bormann
Sent: Monday, March 9, 2020 14:05
To: core <core@ietf.o= rg>
Cc: netmod@ietf.org
Subject: [core] =F0=9F=94=94 WG Last Call of CORECONF drafts: draft-ietf-co= re-yang-cbor-12, -sid-11, -comi-09, -yang-library-01

It took us a long time to get the four CORECONF drafts in sync,
but now we are ready for WGLC.

This starts a working group last call for
=E2=80=94 draft-ietf-core-yang-cbor-12
=E2=80=94 draft-ietf-core-sid-11
=E2=80=94 draft-ietf-core-comi-09
=E2=80=94 draft-ietf-core-yang-library-01

ending on

=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 24:00 UTC on Tuesday, March 31, 2020.

(This includes some extra time for the IETF week and for cross-WG
coordination.)

This WGLC is copied to the netmod WG mailing list; please do have a look at these drafts as they are slated to become a part of the greater
YANG/NETCONF/RESTCONF family.=C2=A0 We intend the discussion to be on the CoRE mailing list, but if you find a fundamental issue with YANG or
RESTCONF, feel free to discuss that on netmod instead.

Please start a new email thread for each major issue that will need
discussion and make sure the subject line includes the draft name and
some sort of name for the issue.=C2=A0 (Minor issues such as typos can also=
be sent to the authors.)

If you read the draft and think it looks fine, please send a one line
email to the list or to the chairs letting us know that so we can get
a feel of how broad the review has been.

(To reviewers and authors:)=C2=A0 If you are aware of any patent claims tha= t
might apply to systems that implement these drafts, please review BCP 78 and BCP 79 and make any appropriate IPR declaration before the last-call ends. If you are not sure whether you need to make a declaration or not, please talk to the chairs and we will help.

Gr=C3=BC=C3=9Fe, Carsten

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--00000000000099510605a2b3615a-- From nobody Tue Apr 7 06:36:56 2020 Return-Path: X-Original-To: netmod@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: netmod@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 898A93A09EC for ; Tue, 7 Apr 2020 06:36:53 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.898 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.898 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=unavailable autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=ackl-io.20150623.gappssmtp.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 6yphBv3yD31u for ; Tue, 7 Apr 2020 06:36:49 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail-wm1-x32a.google.com (mail-wm1-x32a.google.com [IPv6:2a00:1450:4864:20::32a]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id BC9893A09F4 for ; Tue, 7 Apr 2020 06:36:05 -0700 (PDT) Received: by mail-wm1-x32a.google.com with SMTP id d202so1866671wmd.1 for ; Tue, 07 Apr 2020 06:36:05 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=ackl-io.20150623.gappssmtp.com; s=20150623; h=mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date:message-id:subject:to; bh=lbat/nid0XkgLgmugulQxduJIPCWodDW508b3fPW/2s=; b=FQ45laGivtYzV+cNdiJNCknxkD29eYT9uMjgfeg0bPsUvdLTTcnXehRuL1u3h8TX40 8cKoY/Dc83IdQ8PLaIXGdlAK0knoLTgZqpTH+nCgvOp4iIDE0dFpd66Er9yhdMJHRECG npyAM7E44Ap9+NodvpO9XPQ/nAn2mxk4bmc3ciSukteWUOebHbVkdF1XIM0ksJIrsosB 4kqElnGWwfdRHVKTwWBQWe/Z8KTqo+NMjQUOAPGqfQGVQeZLpMOkhUU24oNE9UIxCMgg wLJhxPdctyv7vaMLmTF5kHpV35RB4uF1tVhl1O4x9mkgy7GMhijaQFI37RznXtdCEw3I YVVg== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date :message-id:subject:to; bh=lbat/nid0XkgLgmugulQxduJIPCWodDW508b3fPW/2s=; b=ASbCYY0o+NtOM7bTK73082PYRYVhJ5a1BHAoxHvvAkn/QFVco/XRLLdQROM23EYOUa 3H72FI0HzfYfDBiZjTg5ytez8b67kXtimVY4TuLJm/RRJqzg0tiPX5vIhSLmZZbUTS8h Hd04rjS2Ud/mFOqVN3ALugjKRV+KSzzl4dVmPaQt3/mzL8z9Bj2cVNdrpZXTP4wOYFM5 ou8V5E2ks/rJRNEF0dNCqwM8QJ6D8tAi/nI7gPKDo4OuOshQno0fcer+ZoZKpDHbKl+m GJyW6wg6SIm38GT94pOXBdMxAOw3aWDNU7t8RLN9Fqy/gZ+o0cjBEH42XVuTs/Xr3kLF y9CQ== X-Gm-Message-State: AGi0Pub/KXLedRH3DNkYBkvrEIuCjJpz8aRb9BgNExReF0RlTTAOn1WB LBQdd/whCuxY32ycgg8LQ0+rk8Sm4/tNP06mlP4mNg== X-Google-Smtp-Source: APiQypJAaSiaXelAodFi2dtYcjUP2tOZU1YTOCZv8CGw+jmCX15iaFZ9HALeZmgxPK/mfbSHUU/eOkyS6sO7R5VqxcE= X-Received: by 2002:a1c:ab03:: with SMTP id u3mr2427013wme.86.1586266563938; Tue, 07 Apr 2020 06:36:03 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 References: <20200331110237.zbo3zw74xlccur3w@anna.jacobs.jacobs-university.de> In-Reply-To: <20200331110237.zbo3zw74xlccur3w@anna.jacobs.jacobs-university.de> From: Ivaylo Petrov Date: Tue, 7 Apr 2020 15:35:37 +0200 Message-ID: To: Juergen Schoenwaelder , core , netmod@ietf.org Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="00000000000010200b05a2b37726" Archived-At: Subject: Re: [netmod] [core] js review of draft-ietf-core-yang-cbor-12 X-BeenThere: netmod@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: NETMOD WG list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 07 Apr 2020 13:36:54 -0000 --00000000000010200b05a2b37726 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Hello Juergen, Thank you for the detailed review and your comments! They truly help us improve this document. Please find my answers below (prefixed by [IP]). Note that the diff after handing your comments and those of Esko Dijk can be found at [1]. Best regards, Ivaylo [1]: https://tools.ietf.org/rfcdiff?url1=draft-ietf-core-yang-cbor&url2=http://core-wg.github.io/yang-cbor/draft-ietf-core-yang-cbor-latest.txt On Tue, Mar 31, 2020 at 1:03 PM Juergen Schoenwaelder < j.schoenwaelder@jacobs-university.de> wrote: > Hi, > > here is my review of draft-ietf-core-yang-cbor-12. I have not checked > the examples in detail, I assume (hope?) the authors have used tools > to generate them or to validate them. > > - Nit: There is no need to capitalize Action in the abstract (and > elsewhere). > [IP]: Fixed - You should perhaps write 'yang-data extension' instead of 'yang data > template' since this is more concrete and less confusing. The use of > 'template' is a bit unfortunate in RFC 8040 since templates have > been used with different meanings elsewhere and I believe people > more commonly refer to the yang-data extension. I also checked > draft-ietf-netmod-yang-data-ext-05.txt and it does not use the word > "template" anymore. > > I see that you use 'YANG data template' later on in several places. > This is not strictly incorrect but I find it unfortunate. I would > prefer to talk specifically about the yang-data extensions. You > actually import both terms, I believe only one is needed (and I > prefer yang-data (extension) over YANG data template. > [IP]: Fixed following your advice. > - If this work gets approved, will other specifications like > draft-ietf-netmod-yang-data-ext-05.txt be expected to cover CBOR > encoding in addition to XML and JSON? This is more a procedural > question. > [IP]: From our discussions, I could say that that is desirable, but not something these drafts can enforce. (Also, for drafts that already are well-advanced, one would expect a companion draft on a later timeline instead of the original text-based (JSON/XML) draft.) > - Wording: > > A new set of encoding rules has been defined to allow the use of the > same data models in environments based on the JavaScript Object > Notation (JSON) Data Interchange Format [RFC8259]. This is > accomplished in the JSON Encoding of Data Modeled with YANG > specification [RFC7951]. > > What is "environments based on the JavaScript Object Notation (JSON) > Data Interchange Format". Perhaps do not even try to speculate about > reasons. What about this? > > An additional set of encoding rules has been defined based on the > JavaScript Object Notation (JSON) Data Interchange Format > [RFC8259]. > [IP]: Applied and added the reference to RFC7951 as that seems relevant. Now it reads: An additional set of encoding rules has been defined in {{RFC7951}} based on the JavaScript Object Notation (JSON) Data Interchange Format {{RFC8259}}. > - Is there a reason why SID terminology is not imported from the SID > specification? Is the reason to avoid a dependency? But then, can > this dependency really be avoided? I reviewed the SID document first > because I thought knowing what SIDs are is essential to understand > this document... > [IP]: This decision has been made before my personal involvement with this document. I will let the other authors correct me if I am mistaken, but my understanding is that while it is a good candidate, we did not necessarily want to mandate the use of the SID draft in order to use the yang-cbor draft. If the implementers want to have another way of deriving meaning for the SIDs, that is fine. I will have to verify if the interoperability in this case was a concern and how it was supposed to be handled. - I am not sure I would call a notification or a container a > collection. Note that RFC 7950 uses the phrase child node quite a > bit in definitions, so this may do the same without using the > (overloaded) word collection: > > o child: A schema node defined as a child node of a > container, a list, a case, a notification, an RPC input, an RPC > output, an action input, an action output. > > I searched the text and 'child' only shows up once and I am not > sure this deserves to define a term at all. > [IP]: I modified the definition as you suggested, but I believe we should keep it as it aims at avoiding confusion over choice and other schema nodes that do not add any additional payload/information during the encoding. They are not considered child nodes in the explicit definition as otherwise we would have had to provide rules for their encoding. - Is 'parent' the same as an 'interior node' defined in RFC 7950? If > so, why not use 'interior node'? Looking at the uses or parent, I am > not even convinced this term needs to be defined at all, the context > seems to be rather clear of what is meant. RFC 7950 does not define > 'parent' as term either but the meaning is clear in the contexts > where the word is being used. > [IP]: I reworded this definition as well, but similarly, a choice is not a parent node in this context. Relevant text: The container, list, case, notification, RPC input, RPC output, action input or action output node in which a schema node is defined. > - To summarize the last few comments, I propose to import 'item' and > 'SID' from the SID document, to not define 'child' and 'parent' > (following RFC 7950), and so the only term to defined here is > 'delta'. But see above concerning the relationship to the SID > document; it is not clear to me what the goals and intentions are in > terms of intended document dependencies. > [IP]: I believe that my previous points provide the relevant answers, but do not hesitate to let us know if you have more concerns about any of your remarks. > - schema trees vs data trees > > This document defines CBOR encoding rules for YANG schema trees and > their subtrees. > > You are not encoding schema trees, you are encoding data trees. See > also the JSON document, which says: > > This document defines JSON encoding for YANG data trees and their > subtrees. > > Why did you change this from data trees to schema trees? > [IP]: Fixed > - avoid 'collection'? > > s/A collection such as/A data node such as/ > [IP]: RPCs, action inputs/outputs and notifications are not included in the data node definition, therefore I changed it to 'nodes from the data tree', which seems to be precise enough. Please let us know how that works for you. Also do you think we should have a definition like `serializable node` in order to avoid listing all the different node types each time? - If I were to use CBOR with RESTCONF, can I request (e.g. via a > specific media-type) how I like the keys to be encoded? Or would > such a mechanism have to be specified elsewhere, i.e., we would need > another using CBOR with RESTCONF document that defines suitable > media types? > [IP]: Currently media types/content formats are defined in the CoMI draft, which seems the appropriate place for me. If RESTCONF is to be used with CBOR, I would expect that some specification should define the media type along with uses of SIDs if needed. - I do not understand this statement: > > Application payloads carrying a value serialized using the rules > defined by this specification (e.g. CoAP Content-Format) SHOULD > include the identifier (e.g. SID, namespace qualified name, > instance-identifier) of this value. > > What is "the identifier of this value"? I am not getting what > is being conveyed here. [IP]: I rewrote this as When schema node are serialized using the rules defined by this specification as part of an application payload, the payload SHOULD include information that would allow a stateless way to identify each node, such as the SID number associated with each node, SID delta from another SID in the application payload, the namespace qualified name or the instance-identifier. Please let us know if that is more clear. > - s/section Section 4/Section 4/ > [IP]: Fixed - SIDs other than [I-D.ietf-core-sid]? > > [...] If SIDs are to be used, the present specification is > used in conjunction with a specification defining this management. > One example for such a specification is [I-D.ietf-core-sid]. > > This seems to indicate that there can be other kinds of SIDs or SIDs > managed differently. Why is this? The SID I-D claims the entire > number space, so how would a different 'specification defining the > management of SIDs' ever work? Why not be specific that the usage of > SIDs depends on [I-D.ietf-core-sid]? See my earlier comments about > the unclear dependency relationship between this specification and > the SID specification. > [IP]: My understanding is that indeed there is the presumption that other implementations that map YANG item identifiers to unsigned numbers could exist in the future. If this is the case, I am not aware how one could interoperate (I would guess based on the content format), but I will let my coauthors comment on that. > - Avoid 'collections'? > > 4.2. The 'container' and other collections > > Collections such as containers, list instances, notification > > Rewrite to: > > 4.2. The 'container' and other interior data nodes > > Interior data nodes such as containers, list instances, notification > > There are more uses of collections following that likely can be > replaced with 'interior data nodes'. The phrase 'interior data node' > is used in RFC 7950 (although not formally defined). > [IP]: I mostly agree. It seems, however, that there are some nodes from data trees that are not qualified as data nodes that are still of interest to us here, so I used the term `nodes from data trees` instead of 'interior data nodes'. Now the title reads The 'container' and other nodes from the data tree and the first sentence just misses `Interior data nodes such as ` and starts listing the relevant nodes for which this section applies. > - Should > > 77 : { / event (SID 60200) / > > be > > 77 : { / example-port-fault (SID 60200) / > > Similarly > > 47(60200) : { / event (SID 60123) / > > be > > 47(60200) : { / example-port-fault (SID 60200) / > [IP]: Fixed > - Replace > > 5. Encoding of YANG data templates > > YANG data templates are data structures defined in YANG but not > intended to be implemented as part of a datastore. YANG data > templates are defined using the 'yang-data' extension as described by > [RFC8040]. > > YANG data templates MUST be encoded using the encoding rules of a > collection as defined in Section 4.2. > > with > > 5. Encoding of the 'yang-data' extension > > The yang-data extension [RFC8040] is used to define data structures > in YANG that are not intended to be implemented as part of a > datastore. > > The yang-data extension MUST be encoded using the encoding rules of > interior nodes as defined in Section 4.2. > > to avoid the use of 'templates' and 'collections'. In the following > text, there are a few more places where 'YANG template' should be > replaced by the 'yang-data extension'. > [IP]: Agreed, only interior nodes is replaced by for the nodes of the data trees as follows: The yang-data extension MUST be encoded using the encoding rules for the nodes of the data trees as defined in Section 4.2. - Unexpected ietf-comi module name showing up in an example > > "ietf-comi:error" : { > > The module prefix pops up out of the blue. You may want the put the > yang-data definition into an example module, give it an example > name, and then replace ietf-comi with that example name. Perhaps > even simplify the yang-data schema to just 1-2 leafs. > [IP]: I added extra text that should make this much easier to understand. While the relevant part could be communicated with a smaller example, I prefer to have a more complete example as long as it does not bloat the relevant part, which does not appear to be the case here. > - typo > > s/section defined the CBOR encoding/section defines the CBOR encoding/ > [IP]: Fixed > - Improve wording > > To avoid overlap of 'value' defined in different 'enumeration' > statements, 'enumeration' defined in a Leafs of type 'union' MUST be > encoded using a CBOR text string data item (major type 3) and MUST > contain one of the names assigned by 'enum' statements in YANG. > > This does not read well. Perhaps: > > Values of 'enumeration' types defined in a 'union' type MUST be > encoded using a CBOR text string data item (major type 3) and MUST > contain one of the names assigned by 'enum' statements in YANG. > > There is similar text on page 31 in the context of bits encoding > that will also benefit from a rewrite. > [IP]: Fixed > - Third example Bob vs Jack > > Should the third example use > > "/ietf-system:system/authentication/user[name='jack']" > > instead of > > "/ietf-system:system/authentication/user[name='bob']" > > to line up with the third example using SIDs? > [IP]: Fixed > /js > > -- > Juergen Schoenwaelder Jacobs University Bremen gGmbH > Phone: +49 421 200 3587 Campus Ring 1 | 28759 Bremen | Germany > Fax: +49 421 200 3103 > > _______________________________________________ > core mailing list > core@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/core > --00000000000010200b05a2b37726 Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Hello Juergen,<= /div>
=
Thank you for t= he detailed review and your=C2=A0comments!=C2=A0They truly help us improve this document= .=C2=A0Please find my answers below (prefixe= d by [IP]).=C2=A0Note that the diff after handing your comments and th= ose of=C2=A0E= sko Dijk can be found at [1].=C2=A0

Best=C2=A0regards,
Ivaylo

<= /div>
= [1]:=C2=A0https://tools.ietf= .org/rfcdiff?url1=3Ddraft-ietf-core-yang-cbor&url2=3Dhttp://core-wg.git= hub.io/yang-cbor/draft-ietf-core-yang-cbor-latest.txt
=
<= div dir=3D"ltr">
=
=
On Tue, Mar 31, 2020 at 1:03 PM Juergen Sch= oenwaelder <j.schoenwaelder@jacobs-university.de> wrote:
=
Hi,

here is my review of draft-ietf-core-yang-cbor-12. I have not checked
the examples in detail, I assume (hope?) the authors have used tools
to generate them or to validate them.

- Nit: There is no need to capitalize Action in the abstract (and
=C2=A0 elsewhere).

[= IP]: Fixed

- You should perhaps write 'yang-data extension' instead of 'ya= ng data
=C2=A0 template' since this is more concrete and less confusing. The us= e of
=C2=A0 'template' is a bit unfortunate in RFC 8040 since templates = have
=C2=A0 been used with different meanings elsewhere and I believe people
=C2=A0 more commonly refer to the yang-data extension. I also checked
=C2=A0 draft-ietf-netmod-yang-data-ext-05.txt and it does not use the word<= br> =C2=A0 "template" anymore.

=C2=A0 I see that you use 'YANG data template' later on in several = places.
=C2=A0 This is not strictly incorrect but I find it unfortunate. I would =C2=A0 prefer to talk specifically about the yang-data extensions. You
=C2=A0 actually import both terms, I believe only one is needed (and I
=C2=A0 prefer yang-data (extension) over YANG data template.

[IP]: Fixed following your advice.=
=C2=A0
- If this work gets approved, will other specifications like
=C2=A0 draft-ietf-netmod-yang-data-ext-05.txt be expected to cover CBOR
=C2=A0 encoding in addition to XML and JSON? This is more a procedural
=C2=A0 question.

[IP= ]: From our discussions, I could say that that is desirable, but not someth= ing these drafts can enforce. =C2=A0(Also, for drafts that already are well= -advanced, one would expect a companion draft on a later timeline instead o= f the original text-based=C2=A0(JSON/XML) dra= ft.)=C2=A0
- Wording:

=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0A new set of encoding rules has been defined to allow t= he use of the
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0same data models in environments based on the JavaScrip= t Object
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0Notation (JSON) Data Interchange Format [RFC8259].=C2= =A0 This is
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0accomplished in the JSON Encoding of Data Modeled with = YANG
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0specification [RFC7951].

=C2=A0 What is "environments based on the JavaScript Object Notation (= JSON)
=C2=A0 Data Interchange Format". Perhaps do not even try to speculate = about
=C2=A0 reasons. What about this?

=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0An additional set of encoding rules has been defined ba= sed on the
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0JavaScript Object Notation (JSON) Data Interchange Form= at
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0[RFC8259].

[IP]: Applied and added the reference= to RFC7951 as that seems relevant. Now it reads:

=
An additional set of encoding rules has bee= n defined in {{RFC7951}} based on
the JavaScript Object Notation (JSON) = Data Interchange Format {{RFC8259}}.
=C2=A0
- Is there a reason why SID terminology is not imported from the SID
=C2=A0 specification? Is the reason to avoid a dependency? But then, can =C2=A0 this dependency really be avoided? I reviewed the SID document first=
=C2=A0 because I thought knowing what SIDs are is essential to understand =C2=A0 this document...
=C2=A0
[IP]: This decision has been made before my personal involv= ement with this document. I will let the other authors correct me if I am m= istaken, but my understanding is that while it is a good candidate, we did = not necessarily want to mandate the use of the SID draft in order to use th= e yang-cbor draft. If the implementers want to have another way of deriving= meaning for the SIDs, that is fine. I will have to verify if the interoper= ability in this case was a concern and how it was supposed to be handled.

- I am not sure I would call a notification or a container a
=C2=A0 collection. Note that RFC 7950 uses the phrase child node quite a =C2=A0 bit in definitions, so this may do the same without using the
=C2=A0 (overloaded) word collection:

=C2=A0 =C2=A0o=C2=A0 child: A schema node defined as a child node of a
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 container, a list, a case, a notification, an RPC inpu= t, an RPC
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 output, an action input, an action output.

=C2=A0 =C2=A0I searched the text and 'child' only shows up once and= I am not
=C2=A0 =C2=A0sure this deserves to define a term at all.

[IP]: I modified the definition as you= suggested, but I believe we should keep it as it aims at avoiding confusio= n over choice and other schema nodes that do not add any additional payload= /information during the encoding. They are not considered child nodes in th= e explicit definition as otherwise we would have had to provide rules for t= heir encoding.

- Is 'parent' the same as an 'interior node' defined in RFC= 7950? If
=C2=A0 so, why not use 'interior node'? Looking at the uses or pare= nt, I am
=C2=A0 not even convinced this term needs to be defined at all, the context=
=C2=A0 seems to be rather clear of what is meant. RFC 7950 does not define<= br> =C2=A0 'parent' as term either but the meaning is clear in the cont= exts
=C2=A0 where the word is being used.

[IP]: I reworded this definition a= s well, but similarly, a choice is not a parent node in this context. Relev= ant text:

The container, list, case, n= otification, RPC input, RPC output, action input or action output node in w= hich a schema node is defined.
= =C2=A0
- To summarize the last few comments, I propose to import 'item' an= d
=C2=A0 'SID' from the SID document, to not define 'child' a= nd 'parent'
=C2=A0 (following RFC 7950), and so the only term to defined here is
=C2=A0 'delta'. But see above concerning the relationship to the SI= D
=C2=A0 document; it is not clear to me what the goals and intentions are in=
=C2=A0 terms of intended document dependencies.

[IP]: I believe that=C2=A0my previous=C2=A0points provide the relevant ans= wers, but=C2=A0do not hesitate to let us know if yo= u have more concerns about any=C2=A0of your remarks.
=C2=A0
[IP]: Fixed
=C2=A0
- avoid 'collection'?

=C2=A0 s/A collection such as/A data node such as/<= br>

[IP]:=C2=A0RPCs= , action inputs/outputs and notifications are not included in the data node= definition, therefore I changed it to 'nodes from the data tree', = which seems to be precise enough.=C2=A0Please let us know how that w= orks for you. Also do you think we should have a definition like `serializa= ble node` in order to avoid listing all the different node types each time?=

- If I were to use CBOR with RESTCONF, can I request (e.g. via a
=C2=A0 specific media-type) how I like the keys to be encoded? Or would
=C2=A0 such a mechanism have to be specified elsewhere, i.e., we would need=
=C2=A0 another using CBOR with RESTCONF document that defines suitable
=C2=A0 media types?

[IP]:= =C2=A0=C2=A0Currentl= y media types/content formats are defined in the CoMI draft, which seems th= e appropriate place for me. If RESTCONF is to be used with CBOR, I would ex= pect that some specification should define the media type along with uses o= f SIDs if needed.

- I do not understand this statement:

=C2=A0 =C2=A0Application payloads carrying a value serialized using the rul= es
=C2=A0 =C2=A0defined by this specification (e.g.=C2=A0 CoAP Content-Format)= SHOULD
=C2=A0 =C2=A0include the identifier (e.g.=C2=A0 SID, namespace qualified na= me,
=C2=A0 =C2=A0instance-identifier) of this value.

=C2=A0 What is "the identifier of this value"? I am not getting w= hat
=C2=A0 is being conveyed here.

[IP]:=C2=A0I rewro= te this as

When sch= ema node are serialized using the rules defined by this specification as pa= rt of an application payload, the payload SHOULD include information that w= ould allow a stateless way to identify each node, such as the SID number as= sociated with=C2=A0each node, SID delta from anothe= r SID in the application payload, the namespace qualified name or the insta= nce-identifier.

Please let us know if that is more clear.
=C2=A0
- s/section Section 4/Section 4/

[IP]: Fixed

- SIDs other than [I-D.ietf-core-sid]?

=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0[...] If SIDs are to be used, the present specification= is
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0used in conjunction with a specification defining this = management.
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0One example for such a specification is [I-D.ietf-core-= sid].

=C2=A0 This seems to indicate that there can be other kinds of SIDs or SIDs=
=C2=A0 managed differently. Why is this? The SID I-D claims the entire
=C2=A0 number space, so how would a different 'specification defining t= he
=C2=A0 management of SIDs' ever work? Why not be specific that the usag= e of
=C2=A0 SIDs depends on [I-D.ietf-core-sid]? See my earlier comments about =C2=A0 the unclear dependency relationship between this specification and =C2=A0 the SID specification.
=
[IP]: My understanding is that indeed there is the presumptio= n that other implementations that map YANG item identifiers to unsigned num= bers could exist in the future. If this is the case, I am not aware how one= could interoperate (I would guess based on the content format), but I will= let my coauthors comment on that.
=C2=A0
- Avoid 'collections'?

=C2=A0 =C2=A0 4.2.=C2=A0 The 'container' and other collections

=C2=A0 =C2=A0 Collections such as containers, list instances, notification<= br>
=C2=A0 Rewrite to:

=C2=A0 =C2=A0 4.2.=C2=A0 The 'container' an= d other interior data nodes

=C2=A0 =C2=A0 Interior data nodes such as container= s, list instances, notification

=C2=A0 There are more uses of collections following that likely can be
=C2=A0 replaced with 'interior data nodes'. The phrase 'interio= r data node'
=C2=A0 is used in RFC 7950 (although not formally defined).

[IP]= : I mostly agree. It seems, however, that there are some nodes from data tr= ees that are not qualified as data nodes that are still of interest to us h= ere, so I used the term `nodes from data trees` instead of 'interior da= ta nodes'. Now the title reads

The 'contai= ner' and other nodes from the data tree

and the first sentence=C2=A0just misses `Interior data nodes such as=C2=A0` and starts listing the relevant nodes= for which this section applies.
=C2=A0
- Should

=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A077 : {=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 = =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 / event (SID 60200) /

=C2=A0 be

=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A077 : {=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 = =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 / example-port-fault (SID 60200) /

=C2=A0 Similarly

=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A047(60200) : {=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 = =C2=A0 =C2=A0/ event (SID 60123) /

=C2=A0 be

=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A047(60200) : {=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 = =C2=A0 =C2=A0/ example-port-fault (SID 60200) /
=

[IP]: Fixed
=C2=A0
- Replace

=C2=A0 5.=C2=A0 Encoding of YANG data templates

=C2=A0 =C2=A0YANG data templates are data structures defined in YANG but no= t
=C2=A0 =C2=A0intended to be implemented as part of a datastore.=C2=A0 YANG = data
=C2=A0 =C2=A0templates are defined using the 'yang-data' extension = as described by
=C2=A0 =C2=A0[RFC8040].

=C2=A0 =C2=A0YANG data templates MUST be encoded using the encoding rules o= f a
=C2=A0 =C2=A0collection as defined in Section 4.2.

=C2=A0 with

=C2=A0 5.=C2=A0 Encoding of the 'yang-data' extension

=C2=A0 =C2=A0The yang-data extension [RFC8040] is u= sed to define data structures
=C2=A0 =C2=A0in YANG that are not intended to be implemented as part of a =C2=A0 =C2=A0datastore.

=C2=A0 =C2=A0The yang-data extension MUST be encoded using the encoding rul= es of
=C2=A0 =C2=A0interior nodes as defined in Section 4= .2.

=C2=A0 to avoid the use of 'templates' and 'collections'. I= n the following
=C2=A0 text, there are a few more places where 'YANG template' shou= ld be
=C2=A0 replaced by the 'yang-data extension'.
=
[IP]: Agreed, only=C2=A0inter= ior nodes is replaced by=C2=A0for the nodes of the data trees as follows:<= /div>

The yang-data extension MUST be encoded using the encoding rules for the n= odes of the data trees as defined in Section 4.2.=C2=A0
=

- Unexpected ietf-comi module name showing up in an example

=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0"ietf-comi:error" : {

=C2=A0 The module prefix pops up out of the blue. You may want the put the<= br> =C2=A0 yang-data definition into an example module, give it an example
=C2=A0 name, and then replace ietf-comi with that example name. Perhaps
=C2=A0 even simplify the yang-data schema to just 1-2 leafs.
=C2=A0
[IP]: I added extra text that should make this much = easier to understand. While the relevant part could be communicated with a = smaller example, I prefer to have a more complete example as long as it doe= s not bloat the relevant part, which does not appear to be the case here.
=C2=A0
- typo

=C2=A0 s/section defined the CBOR encoding/section defines the CBOR encodin= g/

[IP]: Fixed
= =C2=A0
- Improve wording

=C2=A0 =C2=A0To avoid overlap of 'value' defined in different '= enumeration'
=C2=A0 =C2=A0statements, 'enumeration' defined in a Leafs of type &= #39;union' MUST be
=C2=A0 =C2=A0encoded using a CBOR text string data item (major type 3) and = MUST
=C2=A0 =C2=A0contain one of the names assigned by 'enum' statements= in YANG.

=C2=A0 This does not read well. Perhaps:

=C2=A0 =C2=A0Values of 'enumeration' types defined in a 'union&= #39; type MUST be
=C2=A0 =C2=A0encoded using a CBOR text string data item (major type 3) and = MUST
=C2=A0 =C2=A0contain one of the names assigned by 'enum' statements= in YANG.

=C2=A0 There is similar text on page 31 in the context of bits encoding
=C2=A0 that will also benefit from a rewrite.
<= font color=3D"#000000">
[IP]: Fixed=
=C2=A0
- Third example Bob vs Jack

=C2=A0 Should the third example use

=C2=A0 =C2=A0"/ietf-system:system/authentication/user[name=3D'jack= ']"

=C2=A0 instead of

=C2=A0 =C2=A0"/ietf-system:system/authentication/user[name=3D'bob&= #39;]"

=C2=A0 to line up with the third example using SIDs?
<= span class=3D"gmail_default" style=3D"font-family:verdana,sans-serif">
[IP]: F= ixed=C2=A0
=C2=A0
/js

--
Juergen Schoenwaelder=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0Jacobs Univer= sity Bremen gGmbH
Phone: +49 421 200 3587=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0Campus Ring 1 | 28= 759 Bremen | Germany
Fax:=C2=A0 =C2=A0+49 421 200 3103=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0<https://www.jacobs-university.de/>

_______________________________________________
core mailing list
core@ietf.org
https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/core
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Tue, 7 Apr 2020 19:47:59 +0000 Date: Tue, 7 Apr 2020 21:47:58 +0200 From: Juergen Schoenwaelder To: Ivaylo Petrov Cc: core , netmod@ietf.org Message-ID: <20200407194758.luxnndxxsuixhzfo@anna.jacobs.jacobs-university.de> Reply-To: Juergen Schoenwaelder Mail-Followup-To: Ivaylo Petrov , core , netmod@ietf.org References: <20200331110237.zbo3zw74xlccur3w@anna.jacobs.jacobs-university.de> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: X-ClientProxiedBy: FR2P281CA0027.DEUP281.PROD.OUTLOOK.COM (2603:10a6:d10:14::14) To AM0P190MB0707.EURP190.PROD.OUTLOOK.COM (2603:10a6:208:196::24) MIME-Version: 1.0 X-MS-Exchange-MessageSentRepresentingType: 1 Received: from localhost (2001:638:709:5::7) by FR2P281CA0027.DEUP281.PROD.OUTLOOK.COM (2603:10a6:d10:14::14) with Microsoft SMTP Server (version=TLS1_2, cipher=TLS_ECDHE_RSA_WITH_AES_256_GCM_SHA384) id 15.20.2878.16 via Frontend Transport; Tue, 7 Apr 2020 19:47:59 +0000 X-Originating-IP: [2001:638:709:5::7] X-MS-PublicTrafficType: Email X-MS-Office365-Filtering-Correlation-Id: 9ba87a87-4f01-4105-9326-08d7db2c936c X-MS-TrafficTypeDiagnostic: AM0P190MB0770: X-MS-Exchange-Transport-Forked: True X-Microsoft-Antispam-PRVS: X-MS-Oob-TLC-OOBClassifiers: OLM:10000; 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I will cut things down to the few items I felt I still want to comment on (everything else I consider resolved). On Tue, Apr 07, 2020 at 03:35:37PM +0200, Ivaylo Petrov wrote: > > - Is there a reason why SID terminology is not imported from the SID > > specification? Is the reason to avoid a dependency? But then, can > > this dependency really be avoided? I reviewed the SID document first > > because I thought knowing what SIDs are is essential to understand > > this document... > > > > [IP]: This decision has been made before my personal involvement with this > document. I will let the other authors correct me if I am mistaken, but my > understanding is that while it is a good candidate, we did not necessarily > want to mandate the use of the SID draft in order to use the yang-cbor > draft. If the implementers want to have another way of deriving meaning for > the SIDs, that is fine. I will have to verify if the interoperability in > this case was a concern and how it was supposed to be handled. For me, the question is whether this ID defines SIDs and the other ID details how they are managed or this ID imports the definition of SIDs from the other document, which also details how they are managed. Right now, it seem something in between, i.e., it is not clear what the dependencies between these specifications is. > > - To summarize the last few comments, I propose to import 'item' and > > 'SID' from the SID document, to not define 'child' and 'parent' > > (following RFC 7950), and so the only term to defined here is > > 'delta'. But see above concerning the relationship to the SID > > document; it is not clear to me what the goals and intentions are in > > terms of intended document dependencies. > > > > [IP]: I believe that my previous points provide the relevant answers, but do > not hesitate to let us know if you have more concerns about any of your > remarks. Your solution kind of works for me. Note that here is one usage of 'collection' left in section 4.4. > - I do not understand this statement: > > > > Application payloads carrying a value serialized using the rules > > defined by this specification (e.g. CoAP Content-Format) SHOULD > > include the identifier (e.g. SID, namespace qualified name, > > instance-identifier) of this value. > > > > What is "the identifier of this value"? I am not getting what > > is being conveyed here. > > > [IP]: I rewrote this as > > When schema node are serialized using the rules defined by this > specification as part of an application payload, the payload SHOULD include > information that would allow a stateless way to identify each node, such as > the SID number associated with each node, SID delta from another SID in the > application payload, the namespace qualified name or the > instance-identifier. > > Please let us know if that is more clear. This is better, but I am still not sure what exactly this SHOULD is about. The SIDs in the payload are assumed to be unique and so are names and paths. So what is the requirement for an 'application payload' that uses this serialization format? (nit: first noun should be plural) > - SIDs other than [I-D.ietf-core-sid]? > > > > [...] If SIDs are to be used, the present specification is > > used in conjunction with a specification defining this management. > > One example for such a specification is [I-D.ietf-core-sid]. > > > > This seems to indicate that there can be other kinds of SIDs or SIDs > > managed differently. Why is this? The SID I-D claims the entire > > number space, so how would a different 'specification defining the > > management of SIDs' ever work? Why not be specific that the usage of > > SIDs depends on [I-D.ietf-core-sid]? See my earlier comments about > > the unclear dependency relationship between this specification and > > the SID specification. > > > > [IP]: My understanding is that indeed there is the presumption that other > implementations that map YANG item identifiers to unsigned numbers could > exist in the future. If this is the case, I am not aware how one could > interoperate (I would guess based on the content format), but I will let my > coauthors comment on that. Such a different mapping would most likely have to use separate SID allocations, i.e., a part of the number space may be managed differently but the resulting number is still a SID. (Of course, the whole idea sounds pretty scary in terms of interoperability.) /js -- Juergen Schoenwaelder Jacobs University Bremen gGmbH Phone: +49 421 200 3587 Campus Ring 1 | 28759 Bremen | Germany Fax: +49 421 200 3103 From nobody Tue Apr 7 13:55:37 2020 Return-Path: X-Original-To: netmod@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: netmod@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0AA533A0FA8; Tue, 7 Apr 2020 13:55:36 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.899 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.899 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id oPs3gM_ub51Y; Tue, 7 Apr 2020 13:55:33 -0700 (PDT) Received: from gabriel-vm-2.zfn.uni-bremen.de (gabriel-vm-2.zfn.uni-bremen.de [134.102.50.17]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher AECDH-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 4940D3A1279; Tue, 7 Apr 2020 13:55:31 -0700 (PDT) Received: from [172.16.42.112] (p548DCD70.dip0.t-ipconnect.de [84.141.205.112]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by gabriel-vm-2.zfn.uni-bremen.de (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 48xfnF2CHHzyTQ; Tue, 7 Apr 2020 22:55:29 +0200 (CEST) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 13.4 \(3608.80.23.2.2\)) From: Carsten Bormann In-Reply-To: <20200407194758.luxnndxxsuixhzfo@anna.jacobs.jacobs-university.de> Date: Tue, 7 Apr 2020 22:55:28 +0200 Cc: Ivaylo Petrov , NetMod WG , core X-Mao-Original-Outgoing-Id: 607985728.761826-987ad46b9786698c380faa14070a030a Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Message-Id: <16670AE8-DE0D-4444-9F64-ED6C67654886@tzi.org> References: <20200331110237.zbo3zw74xlccur3w@anna.jacobs.jacobs-university.de> <20200407194758.luxnndxxsuixhzfo@anna.jacobs.jacobs-university.de> To: Juergen Schoenwaelder X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.3608.80.23.2.2) Archived-At: Subject: Re: [netmod] [core] js review of draft-ietf-core-yang-cbor-12 X-BeenThere: netmod@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: NETMOD WG list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 07 Apr 2020 20:55:36 -0000 On 2020-04-07, at 21:47, Juergen Schoenwaelder = wrote: >=20 > For me, the question is whether this ID defines SIDs and the other ID > details how they are managed or this ID imports the definition of SIDs > from the other document, which also details how they are managed. > Right now, it seem something in between, i.e., it is not clear what > the dependencies between these specifications is. Thank you for that feedback. So I think we need to be a bit more radical/precise: -YANG-CBOR should explain that SIDs are 63-bit unsigned integers and how = the delta encoding in the CBOR map keys works. I.e., define the = concept, but not the number space management. -sid does the latter. The document that defines the media types (comi) gets to bind YANG-CBOR, = for these media types, to the specific SID concept defined in -sid. -YANG-CBOR can still refer to -sid as a preferred way to manage the = number space. But you can implement -YANG-CBOR without understanding -sid, so this is = not a normative reference. Any other document using -YANG-CBOR can refer to -sid as well (or, = exceptionally, to something specific for that usage). Gr=C3=BC=C3=9Fe, Carsten From nobody Tue Apr 7 14:47:43 2020 Return-Path: X-Original-To: netmod@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: netmod@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id BB7E73A08E8; Tue, 7 Apr 2020 14:47:41 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.899 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.899 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id inHpQufP9K3d; Tue, 7 Apr 2020 14:47:39 -0700 (PDT) Received: from gabriel-vm-2.zfn.uni-bremen.de (gabriel-vm-2.zfn.uni-bremen.de [134.102.50.17]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher AECDH-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 88BAA3A08EA; Tue, 7 Apr 2020 14:47:39 -0700 (PDT) Received: from [172.16.42.112] (p548DCD70.dip0.t-ipconnect.de [84.141.205.112]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by gabriel-vm-2.zfn.uni-bremen.de (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 48xgxP72H4z103C; Tue, 7 Apr 2020 23:47:37 +0200 (CEST) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 13.4 \(3608.80.23.2.2\)) From: Carsten Bormann In-Reply-To: Date: Tue, 7 Apr 2020 23:47:37 +0200 Cc: Juergen Schoenwaelder , core , netmod@ietf.org X-Mao-Original-Outgoing-Id: 607988857.468165-4e4ed4fbdd2e49242546b03b071d8958 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Message-Id: References: <20200331110237.zbo3zw74xlccur3w@anna.jacobs.jacobs-university.de> To: Ivaylo Petrov X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.3608.80.23.2.2) Archived-At: Subject: Re: [netmod] [core] js review of draft-ietf-core-yang-cbor-12 X-BeenThere: netmod@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: NETMOD WG list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 07 Apr 2020 21:47:42 -0000 On 2020-04-07, at 15:35, Ivaylo Petrov wrote: >=20 > - If this work gets approved, will other specifications like > draft-ietf-netmod-yang-data-ext-05.txt be expected to cover CBOR > encoding in addition to XML and JSON? This is more a procedural > question. >=20 > [IP]: =46rom our discussions, I could say that that is desirable, but = not something these drafts can enforce. (Also, for drafts that already = are well-advanced, one would expect a companion draft on a later = timeline instead of the original text-based (JSON/XML) draft.) Right. Are we creating any special hardship for = draft-ietf-netmod-yang-data-ext? 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Wed, 8 Apr 2020 06:34:29 +0000 Date: Wed, 8 Apr 2020 08:34:28 +0200 From: Juergen Schoenwaelder To: Carsten Bormann Cc: Ivaylo Petrov , core , netmod@ietf.org Message-ID: <20200408063428.xqpf47jgqnxtjtxe@anna.jacobs.jacobs-university.de> Reply-To: Juergen Schoenwaelder Mail-Followup-To: Carsten Bormann , Ivaylo Petrov , core , netmod@ietf.org References: <20200331110237.zbo3zw74xlccur3w@anna.jacobs.jacobs-university.de> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: X-ClientProxiedBy: AM6P195CA0044.EURP195.PROD.OUTLOOK.COM (2603:10a6:209:87::21) To AM0P190MB0707.EURP190.PROD.OUTLOOK.COM (2603:10a6:208:196::24) MIME-Version: 1.0 X-MS-Exchange-MessageSentRepresentingType: 1 Received: from localhost (2001:638:709:5::7) by AM6P195CA0044.EURP195.PROD.OUTLOOK.COM (2603:10a6:209:87::21) with Microsoft SMTP Server (version=TLS1_2, cipher=TLS_ECDHE_RSA_WITH_AES_256_GCM_SHA384) id 15.20.2900.15 via Frontend Transport; Wed, 8 Apr 2020 06:34:29 +0000 X-Originating-IP: [2001:638:709:5::7] X-MS-PublicTrafficType: Email X-MS-Office365-Filtering-Correlation-Id: f4d00c53-f904-4a43-decd-08d7db86e40e X-MS-TrafficTypeDiagnostic: AM0P190MB0626: X-MS-Exchange-Transport-Forked: True X-Microsoft-Antispam-PRVS: X-MS-Oob-TLC-OOBClassifiers: OLM:9508; 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This is more a procedural > > question. > > > > [IP]: From our discussions, I could say that that is desirable, but not something these drafts can enforce. (Also, for drafts that already are well-advanced, one would expect a companion draft on a later timeline instead of the original text-based (JSON/XML) draft.) > > Right. Are we creating any special hardship for draft-ietf-netmod-yang-data-ext? > This is a procedural question (i.e., nothing the ID will regulate) and ideally the WGs involved come to some common understanding how we handle things in the future. One option is that NETMOD agrees to take care of CBOR as a third encoding in the future like it does take care of XML and JSON today. What I like to avoid is that YANG evolves and the various encodings start to work with different subsets of YANG. /js -- Juergen Schoenwaelder Jacobs University Bremen gGmbH Phone: +49 421 200 3587 Campus Ring 1 | 28759 Bremen | Germany Fax: +49 421 200 3103 From nobody Tue Apr 7 23:57:48 2020 Return-Path: X-Original-To: netmod@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: netmod@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id F11EB3A08C4; Tue, 7 Apr 2020 23:57:46 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.899 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.899 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, MSGID_FROM_MTA_HEADER=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (1024-bit key) header.d=jacobsuniversity.onmicrosoft.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id ajdnIa9YrSrn; 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I.e., define the concept, but not the number space management. > > -sid does the latter. > > The document that defines the media types (comi) gets to bind YANG-CBOR, for these media types, to the specific SID concept defined in -sid. > > -YANG-CBOR can still refer to -sid as a preferred way to manage the number space. > But you can implement -YANG-CBOR without understanding -sid, so this is not a normative reference. > Any other document using -YANG-CBOR can refer to -sid as well (or, exceptionally, to something specific for that usage). > This makes sense, but I prefer to have the media types defined in YANG-CBOR. If I use CBOR with RESTCONF, I love to depend on YANG-CBOR only and not in addition on COMI just for the media type definition. The serialization format is defined in YANG-CBOR, hence it makes sense to me to define the corresponding media-type(s) there as well. Note, I did not manage to review COMI due to a lack of time. So I am digging into the type definitions now. RESTCONF (RFC 8040) defines: application/yang-data+json application/yang-data+xml COMI defines: application/yang-data+cbor application/yang-identifiers+cbor application/yang-instances+cbor It seems that yang-data+cbor really is yang-data+cbor+sid and it seems there is no media type for yang-data+cbor+names (i.e., the CBOR encoding that uses names instead of SIDs as keys). The other two media types yang-identifiers+cbor and yang-instances+cbor seem to be COMI specific. Hence, me preference would be to define something like application/yang-data+cbor+sid application/yang-data+cbor+name in YANG-CBOR and to leave the other two application/yang-identifiers+cbor application/yang-instances+cbor for COMI. There is a certain interest to stream binary encoded YANG data and having a self-contained YANG-CBOR document would be desirable to minimize dependencies and maintenance headache down the road. /js -- Juergen Schoenwaelder Jacobs University Bremen gGmbH Phone: +49 421 200 3587 Campus Ring 1 | 28759 Bremen | Germany Fax: +49 421 200 3103 From nobody Wed Apr 8 01:28:01 2020 Return-Path: X-Original-To: netmod@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: netmod@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id ABB133A0D0A for ; Wed, 8 Apr 2020 01:27:59 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.268 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.268 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIMWL_WL_HIGH=-0.168, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_EF=-0.1, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=unavailable autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); 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charset="iso-8859-2" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable I would like to allow require-instance in derived types (done in errata = or any other way) because we allow other constraints to be changed. = Regularity of YANG is very important for me. Learning YANG is difficult enough = without adding new exception cases. Also as I consider this undefined, it is better to document whether this = is allowed or not. This is a binary decision, either/or. If setting it as a YANG language rule is to strict, we still need a guideline at least for = RFC authors, shall we consider it a problem or not?=20 Balazs -----Original Message----- From: netmod On Behalf Of Martin Bj=F6rklund Sent: 2020. =E1prilis 6., h=E9tf=F5 13:38 To: j.schoenwaelder@jacobs-university.de Cc: netmod@ietf.org; rwilton=3D40cisco.com@dmarc.ietf.org Subject: Re: [netmod] [Technical Errata Reported] RFC7950 (6031) Juergen Schoenwaelder wrote: > On Mon, Apr 06, 2020 at 08:51:46AM +0200, Radek Krejci wrote: > > Hi, > > I just want to emphasis, what are the consequences of the option 1.=20 > > This way, the tools are allowed to not accept require-instance in=20 > > derived types, so actually schema authors SHOULD NOT use=20 > > require-instance this way. Since there is at least 1 YANG model in=20 > > RFC (8639 and I would expect more), which has require-instance in=20 > > the derive type, errata will be needed in this case(s). > > >=20 > RFC 7950 says in 9.9.3: >=20 > If this statement is not present, it defaults to "true". >=20 > This means that require-instance is 'on by default'. Hence, it is=20 > necessary to use what RFC 7950 calls a 'restriction' (9.9.1) to=20 > effectively _remove_ what seems like a restriction (or constraint). > (This text apparently has already been in RFC 6020.) I think the correct fix is to change the text so that "require-instance" = is not classified as a restriction and keep the default. Also, I think = that it would be easiest (for backwards compatibility w/ existing models) to = allow "require-inetance" to be changed in derived types. However, this cannot imo be done in an errata. /martin >=20 > The definition I found in RFC 8639 is this: >=20 > leaf stream { > type stream-ref { > require-instance false; > } > mandatory true; > description > "Indicates the event stream to be considered for > this subscription."; > } >=20 > This could be changed to: >=20 > leaf stream { > type leafref { > path "/sn:streams/sn:stream/sn:name"; > require-instance false; > } > mandatory true; > description > "Indicates the event stream to be considered for > this subscription."; > } >=20 > What bothers me here is that I find the design of the default=20 > behaviour backwards. If the default would have been >=20 > If this statement is not present, it defaults to "false". >=20 > then require-instance could be used to add a constraint in derived=20 > types but not to remove it (like the other type restrictions). >=20 > If people were to agree that the default here is wrong, can the=20 > problem be fixed? Likely not since changing the default (even in say=20 > YANG 2.0) could have drastic consequences and would essentially=20 > require to be always explicit about the require-instance property to=20 > be on the safe side. >=20 > /js >=20 > > Regards, > > Radek > >=20 > >=20 > > Dne 03. 04. 20 v 18:55 Juergen Schoenwaelder napsal(a): > > > I propose option 1) and add an issue on yang-next (if not already=20 > > > there yet). > > > > > > /js > > > > > > On Fri, Apr 03, 2020 at 04:24:35PM +0000, Rob Wilton (rwilton) = wrote: > > >> For the errata, it looks like there are two choices: > > >> > > >> 1) We reject this errata, on the grounds that it is unclear on = what the behaviour was expected to be. It is left unspecified as to whether require-instance is allowed in a typedef. We add an issue on the = YANG.Next issue tracker to sort this out in a future revision of YANG. > > >> > > >> 2) We agree on what the expected behaviour should be, in which = case it may be possible that this can be "Hold for document update", although = it still seems questionable whether this really fits as an errata. > > >> > > >> Regards, > > >> Rob > > >> =20 > > >> > > >>> -----Original Message----- > > >>> From: netmod On Behalf Of Ladislav=20 > > >>> Lhotka > > >>> Sent: 03 April 2020 15:52 > > >>> To: netmod@ietf.org > > >>> Subject: Re: [netmod] [Technical Errata Reported] RFC7950 (6031) > > >>> > > >>> On Fri, 2020-04-03 at 14:01 +0000, Sterne, Jason (Nokia -=20 > > >>> CA/Ottawa) > > >>> wrote: > > >>>> Hi Martin, > > >>>> > > >>>> I believe you that the technical "value space" doesn't change,=20 > > >>>> but that leaf would suddenly accept more values than it did = before right? > > >>>> I'm wondering if we want to follow the "spirit" here, or stick=20 > > >>>> with the > > >>> "value space" argument. > > >>> > > >>> I agree with Martin here. Moreover, if such a derived type is=20 > > >>> added, it doesn't change anything related to existing data,=20 > > >>> because they use the base type as before. New data nodes may use = > > >>> the new type but no confusion can arise - their type has "require-instance false", which is correct. > > >>> > > >>> Lada > > >>> > > >>>> I'm not really certain what the implications are (and maybe=20 > > >>>> someone has an example of why it is better to allow it?) but=20 > > >>>> overwriting require-instance with 'false' doesn't feel right. > > >>>> > > >>>> Jason > > >>>> > > >>>>> -----Original Message----- > > >>>>> From: Martin Bj=F6rklund > > >>>>> Sent: Friday, April 3, 2020 9:54 AM > > >>>>> To: Sterne, Jason (Nokia - CA/Ottawa) > > >>>>> Cc: rwilton=3D40cisco.com@dmarc.ietf.org;=20 > > >>>>> j.schoenwaelder@jacobs- university.de; mbj+ietf@4668.se;=20 > > >>>>> warren@kumari.net; netmod@ietf.org; > > >>>>> rfc- editor@rfc-editor.org > > >>>>> Subject: Re: [netmod] [Technical Errata Reported] RFC7950=20 > > >>>>> (6031) > > >>>>> > > >>>>> Hi, > > >>>>> > > >>>>> "Sterne, Jason (Nokia - CA/Ottawa)" wrote: > > >>>>>> I don't think we should allow overwriting a require-instance=20 > > >>>>>> true with a require-instance false in a derived type. It=20 > > >>>>>> seems to go against the spirit of avoiding expansion of = allowable values. > > >>>>> As I wrote earlier in this thread, the value space doesn't=20 > > >>>>> change with require-instance. > > >>>>> > > >>>>> > > >>>>> /martin > > >>>>> > > >>>>> > > >>>>> > > >>>>>> From section 4.1 of RFC7950: > > >>>>>> > > >>>>>> Derived types can restrict their base type's set of=20 > > >>>>>> valid values > > >>>>>> > > >>>>>> And this text in section 7.3.4 implies that derived types=20 > > >>>>>> only do further restriction: > > >>>>>> > > >>>>>> If the type's default value is not valid according to the = new > > >>>>>> restrictions specified in a derived type or leaf = definition, the > > >>>>>> derived type or leaf definition MUST specify a new default value > > >>>>>> compatible with the restrictions. > > >>>>>> > > >>>>>> Going the other direction (overwriting with require-instance=20 > > >>>>>> true) seems OK to me. > > >>>>>> > > >>>>>> Jason > > >>>>>> > > >>>>>> > > >>>>>>> -----Original Message----- > > >>>>>>> From: netmod On Behalf Of Rob=20 > > >>>>>>> Wilton > > >>>>>>> (rwilton) > > >>>>>>> Sent: Friday, April 3, 2020 8:06 AM > > >>>>>>> To: Juergen Schoenwaelder > > >>>>>>> ; > > >>>>>>> Martin > > >>>>>>> Bj=F6rklund > > >>>>>>> Cc: warren@kumari.net; netmod@ietf.org;=20 > > >>>>>>> rfc-editor@rfc-editor.org > > >>>>>>> Subject: Re: [netmod] [Technical Errata Reported] RFC7950=20 > > >>>>>>> (6031) > > >>>>>>> > > >>>>>>> > > >>>>>>> > > >>>>>>>> -----Original Message----- > > >>>>>>>> From: netmod On Behalf Of Juergen > > >>>>>>> Schoenwaelder > > >>>>>>>> Sent: 27 March 2020 16:13 > > >>>>>>>> To: Martin Bj=F6rklund > > >>>>>>>> Cc: ibagdona@gmail.com; warren@kumari.net; netmod@ietf.org; > > >>>>>>>> rfc- editor@rfc-editor.org > > >>>>>>>> Subject: Re: [netmod] [Technical Errata Reported] RFC7950 > > >>>>>>>> (6031) > > >>>>>>>> > > >>>>>>>> On Fri, Mar 27, 2020 at 04:35:44PM +0100, Martin = Bj=F6rklund > > >>> wrote: > > >>>>>>>>> [re-sent w/ correct address] > > >>>>>>>>> > > >>>>>>>>> Juergen Schoenwaelder=20 > > >>>>>>>>> > > >>>>> wrote: > > >>>>>>>>>> Hi, > > >>>>>>>>>> > > >>>>>>>>>> two comments: > > >>>>>>>>>> > > >>>>>>>>>> - It is unclear to me whether this really qualifies as an > > >>> errata. > > >>>>>>>>>> - If we add this, then there should probably text about > > >>> which > > >>>>>>>>>> combinations are allowed. For example, for pattern and=20 > > >>>>>>>>>> ranges, > > >>>>> there > > >>>>>>>>>> is explicit text that says further restrictions of the=20 > > >>>>>>>>>> value space > > >>>>>>>>>> are possible, bot not expansions. If we follow that=20 > > >>>>>>>>>> logic, then > > >>>>>>>>>> > > >>>>>>>>>> typedef a { > > >>>>>>>>>> type leaf-ref { > > >>>>>>>>>> path "/some/thing"; > > >>>>>>>>>> require-instance true; > > >>>>>>>>>> } > > >>>>>>>>>> } > > >>>>>>>>>> > > >>>>>>>>>> typedef b { > > >>>>>>>>>> type a { > > >>>>>>>>>> require-instance false; > > >>>>>>>>>> } > > >>>>>>>>>> } > > >>>>>>>>>> > > >>>>>>>>>> might be illegal since b has a larger value space than = a. > > >>>>>>>>> The value space of b is the same as for a. = "require-instance" > > >>>>>>>>> doesn't > > >>>>>>>>> change the value space; it changes semantic validation of=20 > > >>>>>>>>> the given values ((see my mail from 17 Mar,=20 > > >>>>>>>>> "Require-instance > > >>> problem"). > > >>>>>>>>> /martin > > >>>>>>>> OK. If we consider require-instance a constraint and not a=20 > > >>>>>>>> restriction, then the motivation for this errata is at=20 > > >>>>>>>> least > > >>>>>>>> confusing: > > >>>>>>>> > > >>>>>>>> Since no one argued against this understanding, this=20 > > >>>>>>>> errata > > >>> changes > > >>>>>>>> the text to the same form as in other restrictions=20 > > >>>>>>>> applicable > > >>> to > > >>>>>>>> derived types. > > >>>>>>>> > > >>>>>>>> Simply put: Do you think it is OK to overwrite a=20 > > >>>>>>>> require-instance true with a require-instance false in a=20 > > >>>>>>>> derived > > >>> type? > > >>>>>>> [RW] > > >>>>>>> I'm not sure, but going in the other direction seems = plausible. > > >>>>>>> > > >>>>>>> E.g. you start with a typedef that is explicitly=20 > > >>>>>>> require-instance false that is then refined by a typedef to=20 > > >>>>>>> be require-instance true. > > >>>>>>> > > >>>>>>> Regards, > > >>>>>>> Rob > > >>>>>>> > > >>>>>>> > > >>>>>>>> /js > > >>>>>>>> > > >>>>>>>> -- > > >>>>>>>> Juergen Schoenwaelder Jacobs University Bremen = gGmbH > > >>>>>>>> Phone: +49 421 200 3587 Campus Ring 1 | 28759 = Bremen | > > >>> Germany > > >>>>>>>> Fax: +49 421 200 3103 > >>> university.de/> > > >>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ > > >>>>>>>> netmod mailing list > > >>>>>>>> netmod@ietf.org > > >>>>>>>> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/netmod > > >>>>>>> _______________________________________________ > > >>>>>>> netmod mailing list > > >>>>>>> netmod@ietf.org > > >>>>>>> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/netmod > > >>>> _______________________________________________ > > >>>> netmod mailing list > > >>>> netmod@ietf.org > > >>>> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/netmod > > >>> -- > > >>> Ladislav Lhotka > > >>> Head, CZ.NIC Labs > > >>> PGP Key ID: 0xB8F92B08A9F76C67 > > >>> > > >>> _______________________________________________ > > >>> netmod mailing list > > >>> netmod@ietf.org > > >>> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/netmod > > >> _______________________________________________ > > >> netmod mailing list > > >> netmod@ietf.org > > >> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/netmod > >=20 > >=20 >=20 >=20 >=20 > > _______________________________________________ > > netmod mailing list > > netmod@ietf.org > > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/netmod >=20 >=20 > --=20 > Juergen Schoenwaelder Jacobs University Bremen gGmbH > Phone: +49 421 200 3587 Campus Ring 1 | 28759 Bremen | Germany > Fax: +49 421 200 3103 >=20 > _______________________________________________ > netmod mailing list > netmod@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/netmod _______________________________________________ netmod mailing list netmod@ietf.org https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/netmod ------=_NextPart_000_0254_01D60D90.5BB94AD0 Content-Type: application/pkcs7-signature; name="smime.p7s" Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 Content-Disposition: attachment; filename="smime.p7s" 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tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id VgAn3yh79xBT; Wed, 8 Apr 2020 01:49:57 -0700 (PDT) Received: from gabriel-vm-2.zfn.uni-bremen.de (gabriel-vm-2.zfn.uni-bremen.de [134.102.50.17]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher AECDH-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 4F80B3A0E5F; Wed, 8 Apr 2020 01:49:56 -0700 (PDT) Received: from [172.16.42.112] (p548DCD70.dip0.t-ipconnect.de [84.141.205.112]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by gabriel-vm-2.zfn.uni-bremen.de (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 48xydb21kWz1069; Wed, 8 Apr 2020 10:49:55 +0200 (CEST) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 13.4 \(3608.80.23.2.2\)) From: Carsten Bormann In-Reply-To: <20200408065738.l7jnht536vxzacse@anna.jacobs.jacobs-university.de> Date: Wed, 8 Apr 2020 10:49:53 +0200 Cc: Ivaylo Petrov , NetMod WG , core X-Mao-Original-Outgoing-Id: 608028593.513101-5d6b6b58aa325266491ef7540caa0229 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Message-Id: <0817C3C8-420A-4994-89D4-2CDA150F682B@tzi.org> References: <20200331110237.zbo3zw74xlccur3w@anna.jacobs.jacobs-university.de> <20200407194758.luxnndxxsuixhzfo@anna.jacobs.jacobs-university.de> <16670AE8-DE0D-4444-9F64-ED6C67654886@tzi.org> <20200408065738.l7jnht536vxzacse@anna.jacobs.jacobs-university.de> To: Juergen Schoenwaelder X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.3608.80.23.2.2) Archived-At: Subject: Re: [netmod] [core] js review of draft-ietf-core-yang-cbor-12 X-BeenThere: netmod@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: NETMOD WG list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 08 Apr 2020 08:50:01 -0000 Hi J=C3=BCrgen, > On 2020-04-08, at 08:57, Juergen Schoenwaelder = wrote: >=20 > COMI defines: >=20 > application/yang-data+cbor > application/yang-identifiers+cbor > application/yang-instances+cbor >=20 > It seems that yang-data+cbor really is yang-data+cbor+sid (We couldn=E2=80=99t use that syntax for the media type name, as +sid is = not a structured syntax suffix, but I get the point.) One way to build a content-type from a media-type name is to add a = parameter: application/yang-data+cbor; id=3Dname application/yang-data+cbor; id=3Dsid (In the CoAP content-format those content types would just be two = different content-format numbers.) But we could also encode that parameter in the media type name. We would have to end the media type name with =E2=80=9C+cbor=E2=80=9D, = because that is the structured syntax suffix that applies. > and it seems > there is no media type for yang-data+cbor+names (i.e., the CBOR > encoding that uses names instead of SIDs as keys). The other two media > types yang-identifiers+cbor and yang-instances+cbor seem to be COMI > specific. Hence, me preference would be to define something like >=20 > application/yang-data+cbor+sid > application/yang-data+cbor+name >=20 > in YANG-CBOR That would put the normative reference to -sid back into YANG-CBOR. Yes, we could do that. Gr=C3=BC=C3=9Fe, Carsten PS.: The terminology for media types is a mess^W^W underdeveloped; see = the expired = https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-bormann-core-media-content-type-format-0= 1.txt for more info. > and to leave the other two >=20 > application/yang-identifiers+cbor > application/yang-instances+cbor >=20 > for COMI. From nobody Wed Apr 8 02:03:09 2020 Return-Path: X-Original-To: netmod@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: netmod@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 111173A0EA9 for ; Wed, 8 Apr 2020 02:03:08 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.897 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.897 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, HTML_FONT_FACE_BAD=0.001, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=ackl-io.20150623.gappssmtp.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id FZ2mWAWWqOc4 for ; Wed, 8 Apr 2020 02:03:02 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail-io1-xd30.google.com (mail-io1-xd30.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:4864:20::d30]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id E7A1C3A0EB2 for ; Wed, 8 Apr 2020 02:02:58 -0700 (PDT) Received: by mail-io1-xd30.google.com with SMTP id n10so6387629iom.3 for ; Wed, 08 Apr 2020 02:02:58 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=ackl-io.20150623.gappssmtp.com; s=20150623; h=mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date:message-id:subject:to :cc; bh=4l/xq32iZQqe0Q4BOn4swSzdCcMV3ULa2hVKN8LAD5M=; b=vBiTes2AGBaNkBLdSfM1v831eplooO02SVvZxIAFpQfiGH+DP+ybRRVnZ8vNaimdwE PnPrSTVw6m8ctfRPzGfRqhrT+z9aR+eLjh5BwJ1VZJ46u5EGS8Ba3rr8ZCL3j0tuItZy U2KqRcy3s+9E7jTL9ekv17ibi3MtqwNSdw8UETapbHGDQ4diCyhsMK55yl12hQAWFYry 6b8iWEPIRya5kS/3IIiQU3heJJFpDtzf6XqAcfk4oiDXW6TxrLe7bCS9B9pNRYh48CjB nntnO0Je99SJwarQKfY98lR52u9yT9v9ZooExl9KJchj+aQt+jeClV49iiDuRAlKnTu2 nAXw== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date :message-id:subject:to:cc; bh=4l/xq32iZQqe0Q4BOn4swSzdCcMV3ULa2hVKN8LAD5M=; b=SLxs7tdS3y3l7QHFMpHc8RuvUmfrMRbbca0tfdtpRJdp/gAfy8M7G6BjKLJqQ6pO9j gAKfZCzb8fNCxsMLBzOuWP2p5h1Ctf2+ogBDsickzesxzCVjmdNW9e+KSw5badzL8RLC hka7YkedGofvzBqi45JYt9aKUJzkLfokKEs4V9hIfFxKt/PORS3Cr1ckWV2jUnsrbyJH pb3n+m8r3QsdrM1qnMhcaqXnAB8r5p22+U97Q+CC4AGYOkC6wxqx80yoEOdWRz4t6M7g jhj15xorH9OGa6E3R1xBUrhO4uCqsnDLk7l0Hx5Vq/zJAPJpOdK1Ho7fGrf0CEZqxkVd p4oQ== X-Gm-Message-State: AGi0PuYvk0iyWYzkZfdyA4/5Og4Ia872eE2i1alis7kvpqOIp2jh+Eo6 p7hk+WZbejVw2jp9nZPLNmkX4Kz2OuRDXtbFyb0JYsKy X-Google-Smtp-Source: APiQypJvyEmZVKsMaRLkyOjz8neXLeRXIUKm5ZCy2oU1EuT3v6mgE164q0+3NSEBGW2aiwzyp4tSA9iGzAuEN3LQNL8= X-Received: by 2002:a6b:c8d4:: with SMTP id y203mr6073842iof.111.1586336577510; Wed, 08 Apr 2020 02:02:57 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 References: In-Reply-To: From: Alexander Pelov Date: Wed, 8 Apr 2020 11:02:18 +0200 Message-ID: To: Laurent Toutain Cc: "core@ietf.org WG" , "netmod@ietf.org" Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="000000000000343d9f05a2c3c443" Archived-At: Subject: Re: [netmod] =?utf-8?b?W2NvcmVdIPCflJQgV0cgTGFzdCBDYWxsIG9mIENPUkVD?= =?utf-8?q?ONF_drafts=3A_draft-ietf-core-yang-cbor-12=2C_-sid-11=2C_-comi-?= =?utf-8?q?09=2C_-yang-library-01_/_-sid-11_review?= X-BeenThere: netmod@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: NETMOD WG list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 08 Apr 2020 09:03:08 -0000 --000000000000343d9f05a2c3c443 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Dear all, I have no additions or remarks on the documents. They are and in my opinion have been ready for some time - waiting for reviews and input from other contributors / WGs. Now, I'm even more confident the documents are ready (once the final remarks are addressed of course). We've had interop tests several versions ago, and since then I have followed the development and the diffs of the documents. They are inline with what we have been discussing and have only improved the technology. Cheers, Alexander On Mon, Mar 30, 2020 at 2:26 PM Laurent Toutain < Laurent.Toutain@telecom-bretagne.eu> wrote: > Hi, > > I've uses these drafts, mainly -sid, -cbor, -comi, when I was defining th= e > SCHC Data Model to study the impact of CORECONF on the serialization. > For me, it is a mature work describing CORECONF. Documents are clear with > examples. I looked at the diff for the latest versions and I don't see > any significant changes, so for me, these documents are ready. > > Laurent > > On Mon, Mar 30, 2020 at 1:18 PM Esko Dijk > wrote: > >> Hello CoRE, >> >> I did a quick review of the -sid-11 draft; it looks ready for >> publication. Some minor issues found : >> >> Reference to RFC 7120 early allocation procedure: the allocation policie= s >> for the registries are all "Expert review". And the RFC 7120 early >> allocation procedure is defined, to do early allocations. However RFC 71= 20 >> mentions that this procedure only applies in case : >> (Section 2) >> a. The code points must be from a space designated as "RFC >> Required", "IETF Review", or "Standards Action". Additionally, >> requests for early assignment of code points from a >> "Specification Required" registry are allowed if the >> specification will be published as an RFC. >> So at first sight it looks like the procedure is not applicable, taken >> strictly. However IANA indicates ( >> https://www.iana.org/help/protocol-registration) that "Expert review" is >> part of "Specification Required" so it would apply still. But in RFC 812= 6 >> this is not mentioned in the same manner - so it could confuse some read= ers >> about whether it applies or not. Maybe some text could be added to state >> why RFC 7120 process does apply to the "Expert review" policy, even thou= gh >> "Expert review" is not listed under Section 2 point a. of RFC 7120. (No= te >> that early allocation by RFC 7120 only applies to "Expert review" >> allocations for draft documents that aim to become RFC.) >> >> Section 6.3.3: table column 1 is very narrow and it breaks the entry >> point integer number, which is confusing. Why not make this column wider= by >> one character? One of the last 2 columns can be made more narrow if need= ed. >> >> Section 3: "RESCONF" -> RESTCONF >> >> Section 3: CoRECONF -> CORECONF >> >> Section 3: "For example how this could be achieved, please refer to" >> -> For examples on how this could be achieved, please refer to >> >> Section 3: "For diagram of one" >> -> For a diagram of one ... >> >> Best regards >> >> Esko >> >> IoTconsultancy.nl | Email/Skype: esko.dijk@iotconsultancy.nl >> >> >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: core On Behalf Of Carsten Bormann >> Sent: Monday, March 9, 2020 14:05 >> To: core >> Cc: netmod@ietf.org >> Subject: [core] =F0=9F=94=94 WG Last Call of CORECONF drafts: >> draft-ietf-core-yang-cbor-12, -sid-11, -comi-09, -yang-library-01 >> >> It took us a long time to get the four CORECONF drafts in sync, >> but now we are ready for WGLC. >> >> This starts a working group last call for >> =E2=80=94 draft-ietf-core-yang-cbor-12 >> =E2=80=94 draft-ietf-core-sid-11 >> =E2=80=94 draft-ietf-core-comi-09 >> =E2=80=94 draft-ietf-core-yang-library-01 >> >> ending on >> >> 24:00 UTC on Tuesday, March 31, 2020. >> >> (This includes some extra time for the IETF week and for cross-WG >> coordination.) >> >> This WGLC is copied to the netmod WG mailing list; please do have a look >> at these drafts as they are slated to become a part of the greater >> YANG/NETCONF/RESTCONF family. We intend the discussion to be on the >> CoRE mailing list, but if you find a fundamental issue with YANG or >> RESTCONF, feel free to discuss that on netmod instead. >> >> Please start a new email thread for each major issue that will need >> discussion and make sure the subject line includes the draft name and >> some sort of name for the issue. (Minor issues such as typos can also >> be sent to the authors.) >> >> If you read the draft and think it looks fine, please send a one line >> email to the list or to the chairs letting us know that so we can get >> a feel of how broad the review has been. >> >> (To reviewers and authors:) If you are aware of any patent claims that >> might apply to systems that implement these drafts, please review BCP 78 >> and BCP 79 and make any appropriate IPR declaration before the last-call >> ends. If you are not sure whether you need to make a declaration or not, >> please talk to the chairs and we will help. >> >> Gr=C3=BC=C3=9Fe, Carsten >> >> _______________________________________________ >> core mailing list >> core@ietf.org >> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/core >> _______________________________________________ >> core mailing list >> core@ietf.org >> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/core >> > > > -- > Laurent Toutain > +--- VoIP (recommended) ---+----------- T=C3=A9l=C3=A9com Bretagne ------= -----+ > | Tel: +33 2 22 06 8156 | Tel: + 33 2 99 12 7026 | > Visit : > | Mob: +33 6 800 75 900 | | > | Fax: +33 2 22 06 8445 | Fax: +33 2 99 12 7030 | > http://class.touta.in > | Laurent@Touta.in | Laurent.Toutain@Telecom-Bretagne.eu | > +--------------------------+----------------------------------------+ > _______________________________________________ > netmod mailing list > netmod@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/netmod > --000000000000343d9f05a2c3c443 Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Dear all,

I have no additions or remark= s on the documents. They are and in my opinion have been ready for some tim= e - waiting for reviews and input from other=C2=A0contributors / WGs. Now, = I'm even more confident the documents=C2=A0are ready (once the final re= marks are addressed of course).

We've had inte= rop tests several versions ago, and since=C2=A0then I have followed the dev= elopment and the diffs of the documents. They are inline with what we have = been discussing and have only improved the technology.

=
Cheers,
Alexander


<= br>
On Mon,= Mar 30, 2020 at 2:26 PM Laurent Toutain <Laurent.Toutain@telecom-bretagne.eu> wrote:=
Hi,

I've uses these drafts, mainly -sid= , -cbor, -comi, when I was defining the SCHC Data Model to study the impact= of CORECONF on the serialization.
For me, it is a mature wo= rk describing CORECONF. Documents are clear with examples. I looked at the = diff for the latest versions and I don't see
any signifi= cant changes, so for me, these documents are ready.

Laurent

On Mon, Mar 30, 2020 at 1:18 PM Esko Dijk <esko.dijk@iotconsult= ancy.nl> wrote:
Hello CoRE,

I did a quick review of the -sid-11 draft; it looks ready for publication. = Some minor issues found :

Reference to RFC 7120 early allocation procedure: the allocation policies f= or the registries are all "Expert review". And the RFC 7120 early= allocation procedure is defined, to do early allocations. However RFC 7120= mentions that this procedure only applies in case :
=C2=A0 =C2=A0(Section 2)
=C2=A0 =C2=A0a. The code points must be from a space designated as "RF= C
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0Required", "IETF Review", or &quo= t;Standards Action".=C2=A0 Additionally,
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0requests for early assignment of code points fro= m a
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0"Specification Required" registry are = allowed if the
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0specification will be published as an RFC.
So at first sight it looks like the procedure is not applicable, taken stri= ctly. However IANA indicates (https://www.iana.org/he= lp/protocol-registration) that "Expert review" is part of &qu= ot;Specification Required" so it would apply still. But in RFC 8126 th= is is not mentioned in the same manner - so it could confuse some readers a= bout whether it applies or not. Maybe some text could be added to state why= RFC 7120 process does apply to the "Expert review" policy, even = though "Expert review" is not listed under Section 2 point a. of = RFC 7120.=C2=A0 (Note that early allocation by RFC 7120 only applies to &qu= ot;Expert review" allocations for draft documents that aim to become R= FC.)

Section 6.3.3: table column 1 is very narrow and it breaks the entry point = integer number, which is confusing. Why not make this column wider by one c= haracter? One of the last 2 columns can be made more narrow if needed.

Section 3: "RESCONF" -> RESTCONF

Section 3: CoRECONF -> CORECONF

Section 3: "For example how this could be achieved, please refer to&qu= ot;
-> For examples on how this could be achieved, please refer to

Section 3: "For diagram of one"
-> For a diagram of one ...

Best regards

Esko

IoTconsultancy.nl=C2=A0 |=C2=A0 Email/Skype: esko.dijk@iotconsultancy.nl



-----Original Message-----
From: core <c= ore-bounces@ietf.org> On Behalf Of Carsten Bormann
Sent: Monday, March 9, 2020 14:05
To: core <core@ietf.o= rg>
Cc: netmod@ietf.org
Subject: [core] =F0=9F=94=94 WG Last Call of CORECONF drafts: draft-ietf-co= re-yang-cbor-12, -sid-11, -comi-09, -yang-library-01

It took us a long time to get the four CORECONF drafts in sync,
but now we are ready for WGLC.

This starts a working group last call for
=E2=80=94 draft-ietf-core-yang-cbor-12
=E2=80=94 draft-ietf-core-sid-11
=E2=80=94 draft-ietf-core-comi-09
=E2=80=94 draft-ietf-core-yang-library-01

ending on

=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 24:00 UTC on Tuesday, March 31, 2020.

(This includes some extra time for the IETF week and for cross-WG
coordination.)

This WGLC is copied to the netmod WG mailing list; please do have a look at these drafts as they are slated to become a part of the greater
YANG/NETCONF/RESTCONF family.=C2=A0 We intend the discussion to be on the CoRE mailing list, but if you find a fundamental issue with YANG or
RESTCONF, feel free to discuss that on netmod instead.

Please start a new email thread for each major issue that will need
discussion and make sure the subject line includes the draft name and
some sort of name for the issue.=C2=A0 (Minor issues such as typos can also=
be sent to the authors.)

If you read the draft and think it looks fine, please send a one line
email to the list or to the chairs letting us know that so we can get
a feel of how broad the review has been.

(To reviewers and authors:)=C2=A0 If you are aware of any patent claims tha= t
might apply to systems that implement these drafts, please review BCP 78 and BCP 79 and make any appropriate IPR declaration before the last-call ends. If you are not sure whether you need to make a declaration or not, please talk to the chairs and we will help.

Gr=C3=BC=C3=9Fe, Carsten

_______________________________________________
core mailing list
core@ietf.org
https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/core
_______________________________________________
core mailing list
core@ietf.org
https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/core


--
Laurent Toutain=C2=A0
+--- VoIP (re= commended) ---+----------- T=C3=A9l=C3=A9com Bretagne -----------+
| Tel= : +33 2 22 06 8156 =C2=A0 =C2=A0| Tel: + 33 2 99 12 7026 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2= =A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 | Visit :
| Mob: +33 6 800 75 900 =C2=A0 =C2=A0| =C2= =A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 = =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0|
| Fax: +33 2 22 06 84= 45 =C2=A0 =C2=A0| Fax: +33 2 99 12 7030 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 = =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0| =C2=A0http://class.touta.in
| Laurent@Touta.in =C2=A0 =C2=A0 = =C2=A0 =C2=A0 | Laurent.Toutain@Telecom-Bretagne.eu =C2=A0 =C2=A0|
+----= ----------------------+----------------------------------------+
_______________________________________________
netmod mailing list
netmod@ietf.org https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/netmod
--000000000000343d9f05a2c3c443-- From nobody Wed Apr 8 03:58:48 2020 Return-Path: X-Original-To: netmod@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: netmod@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id DE8463A12E2; Wed, 8 Apr 2020 03:58:46 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.899 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.899 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id E3fWG3BT1frD; Wed, 8 Apr 2020 03:58:44 -0700 (PDT) Received: from gabriel-vm-2.zfn.uni-bremen.de (gabriel-vm-2.zfn.uni-bremen.de [134.102.50.17]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher AECDH-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 7D8A03A12E1; Wed, 8 Apr 2020 03:58:44 -0700 (PDT) Received: from [172.16.42.112] (p548DCD70.dip0.t-ipconnect.de [84.141.205.112]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by gabriel-vm-2.zfn.uni-bremen.de (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 48y1VB1vlkzyX1; Wed, 8 Apr 2020 12:58:42 +0200 (CEST) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 13.4 \(3608.80.23.2.2\)) From: Carsten Bormann In-Reply-To: <0817C3C8-420A-4994-89D4-2CDA150F682B@tzi.org> Date: Wed, 8 Apr 2020 12:58:41 +0200 Cc: core , NetMod WG , Ivaylo Petrov X-Mao-Original-Outgoing-Id: 608036321.657564-eee273dc4db31bafc432d532efd82f13 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Message-Id: References: <20200331110237.zbo3zw74xlccur3w@anna.jacobs.jacobs-university.de> <20200407194758.luxnndxxsuixhzfo@anna.jacobs.jacobs-university.de> <16670AE8-DE0D-4444-9F64-ED6C67654886@tzi.org> <20200408065738.l7jnht536vxzacse@anna.jacobs.jacobs-university.de> <0817C3C8-420A-4994-89D4-2CDA150F682B@tzi.org> To: Juergen Schoenwaelder X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.3608.80.23.2.2) Archived-At: Subject: Re: [netmod] [core] js review of draft-ietf-core-yang-cbor-12 X-BeenThere: netmod@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: NETMOD WG list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 08 Apr 2020 10:58:47 -0000 On 2020-04-08, at 10:49, Carsten Bormann wrote: >=20 > One way to build a content-type from a media-type name is to add a = parameter: >=20 > application/yang-data+cbor; id=3Dname > application/yang-data+cbor; id=3Dsid Ha. Let=E2=80=99s create a registry in yang-cbor for id=3D values (initially = filled with id=3Dname). -sid can then register id=3Dsid in that. Look, ma, no normative references! Gr=C3=BC=C3=9Fe, Carsten PS. If you wonder why I care about normative references: RFC 7252 got = stuck for a year in 2013 for an ill-advised normative reference. And = have a look at = https://www.rfc-editor.org/current_queue.php#draft-ietf-anima-grasp =E2=80= =94 140+ weeks of waiting for a (totally unneeded) normative = reference=E2=80=A6 From nobody Wed Apr 8 04:36:47 2020 Return-Path: X-Original-To: netmod@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: netmod@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3F0863A010D for ; Wed, 8 Apr 2020 04:36:45 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.898 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.898 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=ackl-io.20150623.gappssmtp.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id O8nn861b0PjB for ; Wed, 8 Apr 2020 04:36:43 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail-wr1-x430.google.com (mail-wr1-x430.google.com [IPv6:2a00:1450:4864:20::430]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 5F1183A00E2 for ; Wed, 8 Apr 2020 04:36:43 -0700 (PDT) Received: by mail-wr1-x430.google.com with SMTP id a25so7455071wrd.0 for ; Wed, 08 Apr 2020 04:36:43 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=ackl-io.20150623.gappssmtp.com; s=20150623; h=mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date:message-id:subject:to :cc; bh=9zrVQf14OfGg8juR/ZeATdZ3iQtbW/G4FtzcBiTqEss=; b=yAQVn8dsddYTrY1m9kb7m62O3dOa6v9ajkbhBZKkQJB8ZqdmCLS1reWZmBpNHU2Giz vVBsK8SOJ/meBWlc2dKZeO2IC1GRiSfd+ChRE5Kc79Aj9f0tugdE1VlKOvcXMQ1gevzR 4REKnc1Hxxky2dhZbZD3YCfxdoN7UAbHjbyVlXXRelmOO6KAz8iav8ZxH3wxtVVtgF6h +E6yy+/O1bosiVBCd4/+kPWMZECPed2ALkeuM/PHgE61s+90Uw8ATK1nDiDEe1yeztgJ CsJm0v51rS6xJbh/KGDXpypf4O08+bKR3u0ogIG9ymQfy5hPavVch7hDIVzvO/aDO9I/ rcdw== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date :message-id:subject:to:cc; bh=9zrVQf14OfGg8juR/ZeATdZ3iQtbW/G4FtzcBiTqEss=; b=FO7DLKGPMW21+43P7yMG90JRl7ogL/4eJpMResujgZ1grC472ii5eJ37mtXvKQo93V LGGwMH40qApcYj80HHQW/gS8N4GT9DxZzyKFcqjisAsariTIDnd6AO7ok+MoYSCBD8sp acqfpXgffVX1epoSFm3UUsAI9VVR8M4S0OQ0/mogFFXdJzoy+smbYBNHU0m1zx4p/yxV Quf45z9lWKrl/80a5ywWIHnPliGIDggTVw4DAFgo3tSnDbx3/ZB7sdAYCpUY+vY3l+X7 kdEWaKHE9ewWIuyO1vTngyJv1pJqmLGYE1U8bblhkAJ3Vl6drcy97bl2m8HqnPMROl29 42gQ== X-Gm-Message-State: AGi0PubaoaghAkW3lRs1XO+yKRev/IclFUOYwQkDOWZKRABtg7W8YLo5 Cj9bvT1Sv8ZeBj90guyvuoIJ97vRR3srIEz+H5VVbg== X-Google-Smtp-Source: APiQypKDV8wwKYhlTpyb3RYFgMQzcI4A793UDsdLIqKRdw1KeH5T28MjGbbGCaYSMRJuecqv0OfMmFjZ6TMsAxQ29RQ= X-Received: by 2002:a5d:6545:: with SMTP id z5mr6596729wrv.136.1586345801665; Wed, 08 Apr 2020 04:36:41 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 References: <20200331110237.zbo3zw74xlccur3w@anna.jacobs.jacobs-university.de> <20200407194758.luxnndxxsuixhzfo@anna.jacobs.jacobs-university.de> <16670AE8-DE0D-4444-9F64-ED6C67654886@tzi.org> <20200408065738.l7jnht536vxzacse@anna.jacobs.jacobs-university.de> <0817C3C8-420A-4994-89D4-2CDA150F682B@tzi.org> In-Reply-To: From: Ivaylo Petrov Date: Wed, 8 Apr 2020 13:36:15 +0200 Message-ID: To: Carsten Bormann Cc: Juergen Schoenwaelder , core , NetMod WG Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="000000000000ffe56f05a2c5e9e0" Archived-At: Subject: Re: [netmod] [core] js review of draft-ietf-core-yang-cbor-12 X-BeenThere: netmod@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: NETMOD WG list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 08 Apr 2020 11:36:45 -0000 --000000000000ffe56f05a2c5e9e0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hello, I like this solution, but I am wondering if it will create a normative reference in the other direction (sid to yang-cbor) and would we be fine with that. Best regards, Ivaylo On Wed, Apr 8, 2020 at 12:58 PM Carsten Bormann wrote: > On 2020-04-08, at 10:49, Carsten Bormann wrote: > > > > One way to build a content-type from a media-type name is to add a > parameter: > > > > application/yang-data+cbor; id=3Dname > > application/yang-data+cbor; id=3Dsid > > Ha. > > Let=E2=80=99s create a registry in yang-cbor for id=3D values (initially = filled with > id=3Dname). > -sid can then register id=3Dsid in that. > > Look, ma, no normative references! > > Gr=C3=BC=C3=9Fe, Carsten > > PS. If you wonder why I care about normative references: RFC 7252 got > stuck for a year in 2013 for an ill-advised normative reference. And hav= e > a look at > https://www.rfc-editor.org/current_queue.php#draft-ietf-anima-grasp =E2= =80=94 > 140+ weeks of waiting for a (totally unneeded) normative reference=E2=80= =A6 > > --000000000000ffe56f05a2c5e9e0 Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Hello,

I like th= is solution, but I am wondering if it will create a normative reference in = the other direction (sid to yang-cbor) and would we be fine with that.

Best regards,
Ivaylo
<= div dir=3D"ltr" class=3D"gmail_signature" data-smartmail=3D"gmail_signature= ">


On Wed, Apr 8, 2020 at 12= :58 PM Carsten Bormann <cabo@tzi.org= > wrote:
On 2= 020-04-08, at 10:49, Carsten Bormann <cabo@tzi.org> wrote:
>
> One way to build a content-type from a media-type name is to add a par= ameter:
>
> application/yang-data+cbor; id=3Dname
> application/yang-data+cbor; id=3Dsid

Ha.

Let=E2=80=99s create a registry in yang-cbor for id=3D values (initially fi= lled with id=3Dname).
-sid can then register id=3Dsid in that.

Look, ma, no normative references!

Gr=C3=BC=C3=9Fe, Carsten

PS. If you wonder why I care about normative references: RFC 7252 got stuck= for a year in 2013 for an ill-advised normative reference.=C2=A0 And have = a look at https://www.rfc-editor.= org/current_queue.php#draft-ietf-anima-grasp =E2=80=94 140+ weeks of wa= iting for a (totally unneeded) normative reference=E2=80=A6

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Wed, 8 Apr 2020 11:50:30 +0000 Date: Wed, 8 Apr 2020 13:50:29 +0200 From: Juergen Schoenwaelder To: Carsten Bormann Cc: core , NetMod WG , Ivaylo Petrov Message-ID: <20200408115029.sfcm2p4gebai3y74@anna.jacobs.jacobs-university.de> Reply-To: Juergen Schoenwaelder Mail-Followup-To: Carsten Bormann , core , NetMod WG , Ivaylo Petrov References: <20200331110237.zbo3zw74xlccur3w@anna.jacobs.jacobs-university.de> <20200407194758.luxnndxxsuixhzfo@anna.jacobs.jacobs-university.de> <16670AE8-DE0D-4444-9F64-ED6C67654886@tzi.org> <20200408065738.l7jnht536vxzacse@anna.jacobs.jacobs-university.de> <0817C3C8-420A-4994-89D4-2CDA150F682B@tzi.org> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit In-Reply-To: X-ClientProxiedBy: AM5PR0201CA0023.eurprd02.prod.outlook.com (2603:10a6:203:3d::33) To AM0P190MB0707.EURP190.PROD.OUTLOOK.COM (2603:10a6:208:196::24) MIME-Version: 1.0 X-MS-Exchange-MessageSentRepresentingType: 1 Received: from localhost (2001:638:709:5::7) by AM5PR0201CA0023.eurprd02.prod.outlook.com (2603:10a6:203:3d::33) with Microsoft SMTP Server (version=TLS1_2, cipher=TLS_ECDHE_RSA_WITH_AES_256_GCM_SHA384) id 15.20.2900.15 via Frontend Transport; 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X-Microsoft-Antispam-Message-Info: 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 X-MS-Exchange-AntiSpam-MessageData: R2AxU8YhxxkLPmPWxSadw+PZpDcEFwRtmpSLtulDPMYUND7pMRsIyRl76ZOvuTcwPNHcrad1hFAhy6FoRBkTheHAMMz04Oby0z9b62G7xEOpHsX7i3HDTGJFZLsSp1RO3/XAHhoBsNyh9i25vse1S8Xg6j3YrB5PrIOvG3mJEc8= X-OriginatorOrg: jacobs-university.de X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-Network-Message-Id: 503d984d-4445-4c1a-d9bc-08d7dbb3095c X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-OriginalArrivalTime: 08 Apr 2020 11:50:30.0347 (UTC) X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-FromEntityHeader: Hosted X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-Id: f78e973e-5c0b-4ab8-bbd7-9887c95a8ebd X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-MailboxType: HOSTED X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-UserPrincipalName: sCESM1B4YkLnIsVKcsRLI+mInHihiMDqMSDrj0oQ7mF8ZHPZWaJLQfEvRs1iJvRhCquXvMP534Jjm0IkQlx5alZvYLeK38hW15xmQBxGZhI= X-MS-Exchange-Transport-CrossTenantHeadersStamped: AM0P190MB0676 Archived-At: Subject: Re: [netmod] [core] js review of draft-ietf-core-yang-cbor-12 X-BeenThere: netmod@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: NETMOD WG list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 08 Apr 2020 11:50:35 -0000 On Wed, Apr 08, 2020 at 12:58:41PM +0200, Carsten Bormann wrote: > On 2020-04-08, at 10:49, Carsten Bormann wrote: > > > > One way to build a content-type from a media-type name is to add a parameter: > > > > application/yang-data+cbor; id=name > > application/yang-data+cbor; id=sid > > Ha. > > Let’s create a registry in yang-cbor for id= values (initially filled with id=name). > -sid can then register id=sid in that. He? yang-cbor defines how to use sids as ids so I see no reason to not also register the id=sid in yang-cbor. I thought we settled on yang-cbor defines what sids are and the sid id details how they are assigned and how the number space is managed. This way, yang-cbor is the base document and the sid document has a normative reference to yang-cbor and comi has a normative reference to yang-cbor. Is there a reason that speaks against this? /js -- Juergen Schoenwaelder Jacobs University Bremen gGmbH Phone: +49 421 200 3587 Campus Ring 1 | 28759 Bremen | Germany Fax: +49 421 200 3103 From nobody Wed Apr 8 04:55:55 2020 Return-Path: X-Original-To: netmod@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: netmod@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9C2353A0769; Wed, 8 Apr 2020 04:55:53 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.9 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.9 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 6liFV9wzN73Z; Wed, 8 Apr 2020 04:55:51 -0700 (PDT) Received: from gabriel-vm-2.zfn.uni-bremen.de (gabriel-vm-2.zfn.uni-bremen.de [134.102.50.17]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher AECDH-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 6E30D3A076E; Wed, 8 Apr 2020 04:55:50 -0700 (PDT) Received: from [172.16.42.112] (p548DCD70.dip0.t-ipconnect.de [84.141.205.112]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by gabriel-vm-2.zfn.uni-bremen.de (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 48y2m42g7nz10Gw; Wed, 8 Apr 2020 13:55:48 +0200 (CEST) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 13.4 \(3608.80.23.2.2\)) From: Carsten Bormann In-Reply-To: <20200408115029.sfcm2p4gebai3y74@anna.jacobs.jacobs-university.de> Date: Wed, 8 Apr 2020 13:55:47 +0200 Cc: core , NetMod WG , Ivaylo Petrov X-Mao-Original-Outgoing-Id: 608039747.7926379-e359bd8fff38faa4d778885139f6e312 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Message-Id: <0CBA1A2B-E7D0-4A9E-92C0-13F87974F971@tzi.org> References: <20200331110237.zbo3zw74xlccur3w@anna.jacobs.jacobs-university.de> <20200407194758.luxnndxxsuixhzfo@anna.jacobs.jacobs-university.de> <16670AE8-DE0D-4444-9F64-ED6C67654886@tzi.org> <20200408065738.l7jnht536vxzacse@anna.jacobs.jacobs-university.de> <0817C3C8-420A-4994-89D4-2CDA150F682B@tzi.org> <20200408115029.sfcm2p4gebai3y74@anna.jacobs.jacobs-university.de> To: Juergen Schoenwaelder X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.3608.80.23.2.2) Archived-At: Subject: Re: [netmod] [core] js review of draft-ietf-core-yang-cbor-12 X-BeenThere: netmod@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: NETMOD WG list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 08 Apr 2020 11:55:54 -0000 >> Ha. >>=20 >> Let=E2=80=99s create a registry in yang-cbor for id=3D values = (initially filled with id=3Dname). >> -sid can then register id=3Dsid in that. >=20 > He? yang-cbor defines how to use sids as ids so I see no reason to not > also register the id=3Dsid in yang-cbor. I thought we settled on > yang-cbor defines what sids are and the sid id details how they are > assigned and how the number space is managed. This way, yang-cbor is > the base document and the sid document has a normative reference to > yang-cbor and comi has a normative reference to yang-cbor. Is there > a reason that speaks against this? Hi, The media type could simply say =E2=80=9Cuses the concept of SIDs=E2=80=9D= or it could say =E2=80=9Cuses SIDs as allocated in -sid=E2=80=9D. I=E2=80=99m not sure the media type needs to say anything at all about = this, but if it does, for completeness I think it would need to do the = latter (so we can have other media types that get their SIDs elsewhere). That would mean a normative reference from yang-cbor to -sid. The registry trick turns that around. Gr=C3=BC=C3=9Fe, Carsten From nobody Wed Apr 8 05:00:27 2020 Return-Path: X-Original-To: netmod@ietf.org Delivered-To: netmod@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from ietfa.amsl.com (localhost [IPv6:::1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 021173A085E; Wed, 8 Apr 2020 05:00:24 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: internet-drafts@ietf.org To: Cc: netmod@ietf.org X-Test-IDTracker: no X-IETF-IDTracker: 6.124.0 Auto-Submitted: auto-generated Precedence: bulk Reply-To: netmod@ietf.org Message-ID: <158634722390.23035.8510809653054695397@ietfa.amsl.com> Date: Wed, 08 Apr 2020 05:00:24 -0700 Archived-At: Subject: [netmod] I-D Action: draft-ietf-netmod-yang-instance-file-format-11.txt X-BeenThere: netmod@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 List-Id: NETMOD WG list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 08 Apr 2020 12:00:25 -0000 A New Internet-Draft is available from the on-line Internet-Drafts directories. This draft is a work item of the Network Modeling WG of the IETF. Title : YANG Instance Data File Format Authors : Balazs Lengyel Benoit Claise Filename : draft-ietf-netmod-yang-instance-file-format-11.txt Pages : 27 Date : 2020-04-08 Abstract: There is a need to document data defined in YANG models when a live server is unavailable. Data is often needed at design or implementation time or needed when a live running server is unavailable. This document specifies a standard file format for YANG instance data, which follows the syntax and semantics of existing YANG models, and annotates it with metadata. The IETF datatracker status page for this draft is: https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-netmod-yang-instance-file-format/ There are also htmlized versions available at: https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-netmod-yang-instance-file-format-11 https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/html/draft-ietf-netmod-yang-instance-file-format-11 A diff from the previous version is available at: https://www.ietf.org/rfcdiff?url2=draft-ietf-netmod-yang-instance-file-format-11 Please note that it may take a couple of minutes from the time of submission until the htmlized version and diff are available at tools.ietf.org. 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charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hello Kent, Thanks for the review. See answers below. I tried to address all you comments, sorry if I missed something.=20 I updated the draft and uploaded a -11 version. Please check/advance it. One question I could not settle: XML2RFC does not accept = =20 Only =20 Why ? Please help. Regards Balazs -----Original Message----- From: netmod On Behalf Of Kent Watsen Sent: 2020. m=C3=A1rcius 31., kedd 3:50 To: netmod@ietf.org Subject: Re: [netmod] Shepherd review on = draft-ietf-netmod-yang-instance-file-format-10 [UPDATE: I just realized that I prematurely stopped the review after the = YANG module. Picking up where I left off=E2=80=A6] Structural Issues: - S5 contains an mix of important and unimportant information. I = think that the most important thing to state that the module defines an = offline format that MAY contain security sensitive information, and thus = safe handling is advised. Maybe also say something about because the = YANG module only defines a =E2=80=9Cstructure=E2=80=9D, the Security = Considerations doesn=E2=80=99t follow the template specified in = https://tools.ietf.org/html/rfc8407#section-3.7.1). For instance: s/is = designed as a wrapper specifying a format and a metadata header for YANG = instance data defined by the content-schema/specifies an offline format/ BALAZS: Most of text was required to be put there by earlier reviewers = (Mostly Juergen and Acee Lindem) and sent to the mailing list. I added that we do not follow the security template for YANG models. - S6.1. the full registration is not inside the
. (How could = happen?) BALAZS: Corrected - S8.1: I-D.ietf-netmod-yang-data-ext should be listed last, as the = number it will be the greater than any other... BALAZS: The order of references is decided by Xml2Rfc. In the = draft-..xml it is the last. - S8.1: RFC8340 is Informative BALAZS: OK - S8.1: agreed that RFC8525 is Normative, but the only place it it = referenced is in a non-normative section=E2=80=A6please add a ref to it = from a normative section. BALAZS: It is referenced from the YANG module which is normative. - S8.2: same comment as before re: floating the I-D refs to the = end=E2=80=A6 BALAZS: The order of references is decided by Xml2Rfc. In the = draft-..xml it is the last. - Appendix C: remove the unnecessary =E2=80=9CC.1=E2=80=9D section. BALAZS: OK Editorial Issues: - Appendix B: - s/For instance data/Instance data/ BALAZS: Sorry, that would make the sentence incorrect. - =E2=80=9C...to avoid are listed.=E2=80=9D - listed where? = Section reference? BALAZS: In the next list in the same chapter. Added "below". - In P2, how is the 2nd sentence connected to the 1st? BALAZS: Separated them into 2 paragraphs. Instance data can be produced = automatically or by some design activity. I was told by a previous = reviewer that I should provide these guidelines only for the latter. = However the guidelines are valid and important as proven by experience. - s/may lead to problems/may lead to the following problems:/? BALAZS: OK - Appendix C: - Don=E2=80=99t put =E2=80=9CNon-Normative=E2=80=9D into the = Section title (move to 1st sentence of section)=20 BALAZS: OK, changed (earlier it was requested to have it in the title.) - s/We present/This section presents/ - s/use cases were YANG/use cases where YANG/ - Actually, this whole sentence is meaningless BALAZS: removed =20 I gave up reviewing Section C at C.1.1, since it=E2=80=99s = non-normative. Honestly, I'd remove the entire section but, if you want = to keep it, I suggest reviewing it for issues=E2=80=A6 Kent // shepherd > On Mar 30, 2020, at 3:22 PM, Kent Watsen wrote: >=20 >=20 > As part of the Shepherd writeup, I read the entire draft and found the = following issues, which I=E2=80=99d like to see resolved before = progressing the document. Most of these issues should have been caught = be the WG and/or Editors... >=20 >=20 > Logical Issues: >=20 > - S3, P8 defines MUSTs inside a SHOULD, a logical contradiction. BALAZS: Changed to SHOULD > - In S3, P8 (the P beginning w/ "The name of=E2=80=9D), text fails to = indicate what SHOULD be done if both =E2=80=9Crevision=E2=80=9D and = =E2=80=9Ctimestamp=E2=80=9D are present? BALAZS: IMHO the preference depends on the use case, so a general = guidance cannot be given. > - the syntax grammar used in S3, P8 doesn=E2=80=99t make sense - use = ABNF? BALAZS:=20 > - In S3, P8: =E2=80=9Cthe semicolons and the decimal point, if = present, shall be replaced by underscores=E2=80=9D - why are they not = escaped? BALAZS: This is a file name. Escaping in file names does not always work = (depending on the filesystem and tools used). This is more simple and = understandable > - Example 1 seems semantically invalid? e.g., = "ietf-netconf-monitoring=E2=80=9D is in "content-data" though not in = "modules-state=E2=80=9D. Also, "module-set-id=E2=80=9D is missing=20 BALAZS: OK, added.=20 The original example is valid, just illogical. It follows the YANG = modules defined in the content schema; it is allowed to have partial = data sets, so some modules may be omitted from modules-state. However = you are right this is illogical. module-set-id does not need to be there. Partial data sets are allowed. > - It is unclear how the "inline-content-schema=E2=80=9D feature could = ever be used. I.e., there are no protocol-accessible nodes in the = module=E2=80=A6 BALAZS: The system can declare in supported/not-supported in design = documentation. E.g. in UC2, Preloading Default Configuration the = designer preparing instance data, can decide to use or not use the = inline-content-schema based on this. > - "leaf-list inline-module" is "min-elements 1=E2=80=9D and = "ordered-by user=E2=80=9D, but "leaf-list module=E2=80=9D has neither = (though it may be that ordering is irrelevant for simple-inline). BALAZS: ordered-by removed. It doesn't really mean anything. In this = case there is no chance of the system reordering a list a = CLI/Netconf/Restconf client provided. Min-elements is not needed for simplified-inline as the case will only = be selected if there is at least one "module" leaf-list entry. It is = needed for inline because otherwise the case could contain an " = inline-schema" anydata section and no "inline-module" entries. That = would not be usable. > - "leaf-list inline-module=E2=80=9D has "ordered-by user=E2=80=9D, = what does that mean in the context of, e.g., UC1? BALAZS: OK. Removed. In this case there is no chance of the system = reordering a list a CLI/Netconf/Restconf client provided. > - P4 in the =E2=80=9Cdescription=E2=80=9D statement on line 134 in = the YANG module makes no sense (grammatically incorrect). Try breaking = into multiple sentences. BALAZS: OK, Reworded. > - The last two sentences of the =E2=80=9Cdescription=E2=80=9D = statement on line 207 in the YANG module contradict each other. BALAZS: Why ? I don't see the contradiction. If you know a single = datastore specify it. If not omit the leaf. If the leaf is omitted, the = situation is unknown. >=20 >=20 > Structural issues: >=20 > - Why isn=E2=80=99t the =E2=80=9CIntroduction=E2=80=9D Section = =E2=80=981=E2=80=99 as is common in RFCs? BALAZS: OK, rearranged sections > - the list in S3, P4 is missing symbols. BALAZS: OK, added > - the two lists in S3, P8 should be indented, or remove the leading = symbol BALAZS: OK removed symbols > - The list under "Metadata MUST include:=E2=80=9D is missing symbols. BALAZS: OK, added > - The list under "Metadata SHOULD include:=E2=80=9D is not indented. BALAZS: OK, added > - 3.2, Example 1: move the comment under "content-data=E2=80=9D under = "modules-state=E2=80=9D. Replace said comment with a new comment that = says something like =E2=80=9CThis content-data only contains the data = identified by the =E2=80=98content-schema=E2=80=99 node, despite the = =E2=80=98module-state=E2=80=99 node indicating that the server = implements other modules BALAZS: Removed comment, it is not needed > - The three examples should be
of their own (e.g., 3.2.x) BALAZS: OK > - The =E2=80=9Cinline=E2=80=9D choice node is generally confusing. I = can=E2=80=99t tell if it=E2=80=99s missing container called = =E2=80=9Cinline=E2=80=9D or if the two descendant nodes are poorly = named. In either case, it would be best to try to make it more = readable. BALAZS: Yes it is complicated. Some members of Netmod (I think Rob W.) = Asked for a full, powerful, flexible way of documenting the content = schema. In some cases it is needed. >=20 >=20 > Editorial issues: >=20 > - s/The term Server is/The term =E2=80=9Cserver" is/ BALAZS: OK > - s/not available/unavailable/ BALAZS: OK > - s/Data is often needed already at/Data is often needed at/ BALAZS: OK > - s/needed by groups that do not have a live running server = available/needed when a live running server is unavailable/. BALAZS: OK > - s/ietf-yang- instance-data/"ietf-yang-instance-data=E2=80=9D/ BALAZS: OK > - remove the word =E2=80=9Cwe=E2=80=9D throughout: s/we/this = document/? BALAZS: OK > - remove P3=E2=80=99s forward-reference to S3, P9? BALAZS: Sorry, I did not find this. Could you specify the text around = it > - s/is actually implemented/is implemented/ BALAZS: OK > - s/e.g., UC5 documenting diagnostic data/(e.g., UC5 [Section 2])/ BALAZS: I prefer to use the short name of the use case instead of the = reference. IMHO it provides information instantly without a look-up. Is = that a problem? > - s/and state data set/and state data/ BALAZS: OK > - s/Config=3Dtrue/configuration (=E2=80=9Cconfig true=E2=80=9D)/ BALAZS: OK=20 > - s/Config=3Dfalse/operational state data (=E2=80=9Cconfig false"/ BALAZS: OK=20 > - OLD: mandatory, min-elements, require-instance=3Dtrue, must and = when > NEW: =E2=80=9Cmandatory", "min-elements", "require-instance true", = =E2=80=9C ust=E2=80=9D, and =E2=80=9Cwhen=E2=80=9D BALAZS: OK > - OLD: If revision information inside the data set is present > NEW: If =E2=80=9Crevision" information is present inside the data = set: BALAZS: OK > - OLD: If the leaf "name" is present in the instance data header, = this MUST be used. > NEW: If the leaf "name" is present in the instance data header, its = value should be used for the "instance-data-set-name=E2=80=9D. BALAZS: OK=20 > - s/items MAY also be used/items MAY be used/ BALAZS: I would to keep "also" to indicated that they can be used as = additional possibilities. > - s/Metadata MUST include:/\nMetadata MUST include:/ BALAZS: OK > - s/Content schema specification/Content schema specification (i.e., = the "content-schema=E2=80=9D node)/ BALAZS: OK > - s/Do not include the content-schema,/Do not include the = "content-schema=E2=80=9D node=E2=80=9D;/ BALAZS: OK > - s/for "UC2 Preloading Data=E2=80=9D/for UC2 [Section 2],/ BALAZS: I prefer to use the short name of the use case instead of the = reference. IMHO it provides information instantly without a look-up. Is = that a problem? > - S3.1.1 P2 doesn=E2=80=99t makes sense to me (esp. the verdt ref, = which likely should be removed or better explained) BALAZS: This was explicitly requested by 2 members of the verdt team. I = tried to amend the text to make it more understandable, however IMHO we = should not try to explain the usage of revision label here. Also this is = just an example. > - s/The same-schema-as-file leaf/The "same-schema-as-file" leaf/ BALAZS: OK > - s/In Use Case 6/in UC6 [Section 2]/ BALAZS: OK > - S3.2 P1: s/examples use/example uses/ and s/for better = formatting//. =20 BALAZS: OK. Originally I intended to use it in multiple places, but it = was unneeded. > - s/is based on "UC1, Documenting Server = Capabilities=E2=80=9D/exemplifies UC1 [Section 2]/ BALAZS: Exemplifying is an uncommon word I find ugly. Is the current = text hard to understand or misleading? =20 I changed it to " The following example illustrates ..." I hope that's = OK. > - s/(a shortened)/a/g BALAZS: OK > - For Ex1: s/uses the inline method/uses the =E2=80=9Cinline" method/ BALAZS: OK > - s/- Use case 1, Documenting server capabilities/Exemplifying UC1/ BALAZS: Exemplifying is an uncommon word I find ugly. Is the current = text hard to understand or misleading? =20 IMHO the string stating the name of the use case is more helpful then a = reference, that needs to be looked up. I changed it to " The following example illustrates ..." I hope that's = OK. > - s/is based on "UC2, Preloading Default = Configuration=E2=80=9D/exemplifies UC2 [Section 2]/ BALAZS: Exemplifying is an uncommon word I find ugly. Is the current = text hard to understand or misleading? =20 I changed it to " The following example illustrates ..." I hope that's = OK. > - For Ex2: s/uses the inline method/uses the "simplified-inline" = method/ BALAZS: OK > - s/- Use case 2, Preloading access control data/Exemplifying UC2/ BALAZS: Exemplifying is an uncommon word I find ugly. Is the current = text hard to understand or misleading? =20 IMHO the string stating the name of the use case is more helpful then a = reference, that needs to be looked up .> - s/is based on UC5 Storing diagnostics data/exemplifies UC5 = [Section 2]/ BALAZS: OK. but I changed it to: exemplifies UC5, Storing diagnostics = data. IMHO the string stating the name of the use case is more helpful = then a reference, that needs to be looked up. I changed it to " The following example illustrates "UC2, Preloading = ..." I hope that's OK. > - s/statistics about NETCONF/statistics about the NETCONF server/ BAALZS: OK > - s/- UC5 Storing diagnostics data/Exemplifying UC5/ BALAZS: Exemplifying is an uncommon word I find ugly. Is the current = text hard to understand or misleading? =20 IMHO the string stating the name of the use case is more helpful then a = reference, that needs to be looked up.> I changed it to " The following example illustrates ..." I hope that's = OK. >=20 > Editorial issues inside the YANG module: > - "description" statement on line 74: rephrase to make more sense. BALAZS: Other people thought it was OK. Any specific suggestion? > - :description" statement on line 92: so confusing. Just write = =E2=80=9CThe =E2=80=98revision' of the 'ietf-yang-instance-data=E2=80=99 = module used to encode this 'instance-data-set=E2=80=99.=E2=80=9D BALAZS: OK > - =E2=80=9Cdescription" statement on line 100: s/content = schema/schema (i.e., YANG modules)/? BALAZS: The term "content-schema" is defined in the terminology section. = It defines =20 > - =E2=80=9Ctype string=E2=80=9D statement on lines 109 and 131 are = missing a =E2=80=9Cpattern" statement. BALAZS: OK, Defined it as a typedef. > - =E2=80=9Cdescription" statement on line 110: should this be mostly = the same as the description statement of line 134, sans the bit = regarding features, deviations, etc.? BALAZS: Paragraphs 2,3 are the same. Paragraphs 1, 4,5,6 are really = different. Inline is not just the same list with features, it involves = one more level of indirection in defining the content schema. =20 > - line 152: s/ietf-yang-library@2019-01-04/revision = "2019-01-04=E2=80=9D of the "ietf-yang-library=E2=80=9D module/? BALAZS: OK > - P2 in the =E2=80=9Cdescription" statements on lines 220 and 249: = s/For instance data sets/Instance data sets/ BALAZS: The sentence will not make sense unless I change the comma at = the end of sentence to a colon. > - =E2=80=9Cdescription" statement on line 256: s/Modules/modules/ and = s/content-schema-spec/=E2=80=98content-schema=E2=80=99/ BALAZS: OK >=20 >=20 > YANG module formatting issues: >=20 > - On line 19: s/ reference/reference/ BALAZS: OK > - On line 21: s/}/ }/ BALAZS: OK > - On line 235: s/pattern/ pattern/=20 BALAZS: OK >=20 > Kent // shepherd ------=_NextPart_000_0299_01D60DAE.E3228810 Content-Type: application/pkcs7-signature; name="smime.p7s" Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 Content-Disposition: attachment; filename="smime.p7s" MIAGCSqGSIb3DQEHAqCAMIACAQExCzAJBgUrDgMCGgUAMIAGCSqGSIb3DQEHAQAAoIIVbjCCAyAw ggIIoAMCAQICAR0wDQYJKoZIhvcNAQEFBQAwOTELMAkGA1UEBhMCRkkxDzANBgNVBAoTBlNvbmVy 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X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 08 Apr 2020 12:07:31 -0000 --000000000000e4168605a2c65739 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hello Tom, Thank you for your review and your comments! They were indeed very helpful. I will try to spend some more time making sure we follow the recommendations from RFC8407, but for now please find my answers below (prefixed with [IP]). Note that the diff after handing your comments can be found at [1] for the txt file diff and [2] for the raw Markdown diff. Best regards, Ivaylo [1]: https://tools.ietf.org/rfcdiff?url1=3Ddraft-ietf-core-yang-library&url2=3Dh= ttp://core-wg.github.io/yang-cbor/draft-ietf-core-yang-library-latest.txt [2]: https://github.com/core-wg/yang-cbor/commit/2aa29f2468c827fd4b58cad6a5decba= 795d9c767 On Mon, Mar 30, 2020 at 12:11 PM tom petch wrote: > There is quite a lot wrong with the admin of the YANG-library I-D when > compared with RFC8407 IMHO > > Security considerations does not conform to boiler plate > [IP]: Adding the following text in the beginning of the security considerations will make it follow the same structure as RFC7895. Would that be acceptable for you? The YANG module defined in this memo is designed to be accessed via CORECON= F {{-comi}}, NETCONF {{RFC6241}} or RESTCONF {{RFC8040}}. Depending on the used protocol, the security considerations of some or all of those will apply. > IANA considerations does not register name space > [IP]: I added such registration. Please let me know if it looks fine. The relevant text is: ## YANG Namespace Registration This document registers the following XML namespace URN in the "IETF XML Registry", following the format defined in {{RFC3688}}: URI: please assign urn:ietf:params:xml:ns:yang:ietf-constrained-yang-librar= y Registrant Contact: The IESG. XML: N/A, the requested URI is an XML namespace. > RFC 6991 is imported and so MUST be a Normative reference > [IP]: Fixed > ietf-sid-file is imported and so MUST be a Normative not Informative > reference for the I-D > [IP]: Fixed reference ietf-core-sid would be better as RFC YYYY with an RFC Editor note > asking them to replace YYYY with the number assigned to 'YANG Schema ... > [IP]: Fixed > Organization Netconf WG seems an odd choice and contradicts contact detai= ls > [IP]: Changed to CoRE WG > Contact does not normally specify WG Chairs > > [IP]: I removed the chairs and left only the group and the editors. Is that what you had in mind? more than one revision clause > [IP]: Fixed > CORECONF not an abbreviation I recognise > [IP]: We have received other comments related to this. We will discuss them during the meeting today and try to clarify this. > I will look some more as and when these are addressed (or I see IETF Last > Call:-) > > Tom Petch > ________________________________________ > From: netmod on behalf of Carsten Bormann < > cabo@tzi.org> > Sent: 09 March 2020 13:04 > To: core > Cc: netmod@ietf.org > Subject: [netmod] =F0=9F=94=94 WG Last Call of CORECONF drafts: > draft-ietf-core-yang-cbor-12, -sid-11, -comi-09, -yang-library-01 > > It took us a long time to get the four CORECONF drafts in sync, > but now we are ready for WGLC. > > This starts a working group last call for > =E2=80=94 draft-ietf-core-yang-cbor-12 > =E2=80=94 draft-ietf-core-sid-11 > =E2=80=94 draft-ietf-core-comi-09 > =E2=80=94 draft-ietf-core-yang-library-01 > > ending on > > 24:00 UTC on Tuesday, March 31, 2020. > > (This includes some extra time for the IETF week and for cross-WG > coordination.) > > This WGLC is copied to the netmod WG mailing list; please do have a look > at these drafts as they are slated to become a part of the greater > YANG/NETCONF/RESTCONF family. We intend the discussion to be on the > CoRE mailing list, but if you find a fundamental issue with YANG or > RESTCONF, feel free to discuss that on netmod instead. > > Please start a new email thread for each major issue that will need > discussion and make sure the subject line includes the draft name and > some sort of name for the issue. (Minor issues such as typos can also > be sent to the authors.) > > If you read the draft and think it looks fine, please send a one line > email to the list or to the chairs letting us know that so we can get > a feel of how broad the review has been. > > (To reviewers and authors:) If you are aware of any patent claims that > might apply to systems that implement these drafts, please review BCP 78 > and BCP 79 and make any appropriate IPR declaration before the last-call > ends. If you are not sure whether you need to make a declaration or not, > please talk to the chairs and we will help. > > Gr=C3=BC=C3=9Fe, Carsten > > _______________________________________________ > netmod mailing list > netmod@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/netmod > _______________________________________________ > core mailing list > core@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/core > --000000000000e4168605a2c65739 Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Hello Tom,
<= div class=3D"gmail_default" style=3D"color:rgb(34,34,34)">
Thank you for your review and your=C2=A0com= ments! They were indeed very helpful. I will try to spend some more time ma= king sure we follow the recommendations from RFC8407, but for now please=C2= =A0find my answers below (prefixed with [IP]= ). Note that the diff after handing your comments=C2=A0can be found at [1] for the txt= file diff and [2] for the raw Markdown diff.=C2=A0

= Best regards,
Ivaylo

[1]:=C2=A0https://tools.ietf.org/rfcdiff?u= rl1=3Ddraft-ietf-core-yang-library&url2=3Dhttp://core-wg.github.io/yang= -cbor/draft-ietf-core-yang-library-latest.txt
[2]:=C2=A0https://github.com/core-wg/yang-cbor/commit/2aa29f2468c827fd4b58cad6a5de= cba795d9c767


On Mon, Mar 30, 2020 at 12:11 PM t= om petch <ietfc@btconnect.com<= span style=3D"font-family:Arial,Helvetica,sans-serif;color:rgb(34,34,34)">&= gt; wrote:
There is quite a lot wrong with the admi= n of the YANG-library I-D when compared with RFC8407 IMHO

Security considerations does not conform to boiler plate

[IP]: Adding= =C2=A0the following text in=C2=A0the beginning of the security consideratio= ns will make it follow the same structure as RFC7895. Would that be accepta= ble for you?

The YANG module defined in this memo is designed t= o be accessed via CORECONF
{{-co= mi}}, NETCONF {{RFC6241}} or RESTCONF {{RFC8040}}. Depending on the used
protocol, the security considerati= ons of some or all of those will apply.
=C2=A0
IANA considerations does not register name space

<= /div>[IP]: I added such registration. Please let me= know if it looks fine. The relevant text is:

## YANG Namespace Registration

This document registers the following XML namespace URN in the "= IETF XML
Registry", following the form= at defined in {{RFC3688}}:

URI: please assign urn:ietf:params:xml:ns:yang:ietf-co= nstrained-yang-library

Registrant Contact: The IESG.

XML: N/A, the requested URI is an = XML namespace.
=C2=A0
RFC 6991=C2=A0 is imported and so MUST b= e a Normative reference

[IP]: Fixed
=C2=A0
ietf-sid-file is imported and so MUST be a Normative=C2=A0 not Informative = reference for the I-D

[IP]: Fixed

reference ietf-core-sid would be better as RFC YYYY with an RFC Editor note= asking them to replace YYYY with the number assigned to 'YANG Schema .= ..

[IP]: Fixed
= =C2=A0
Organization Netconf WG seems an odd choice and contradicts contact details=
=C2=A0
[IP]: Changed to = CoRE WG
=C2=A0
Contact does not normally specify WG Chairs


[IP]: I removed the= chairs and left only the group and the editors. Is that what you had in mind?

more than one revision clause
=C2=A0
[IP]: Fixed
=C2=A0
CORECONF not an abbreviation I recognise

[IP]: We have received other comments related to this.= We will discuss them during the meeting today and try to clarify this.=C2=A0
I will look some more as and when these are addressed (or I see IETF Last C= all:-)

Tom Petch
________________________________________
From: netmod <netmod-bounces@ietf.org> on behalf of Carsten Bormann <cabo@tzi.org>
Sent: 09 March 2020 13:04
To: core
Cc: netmod@ietf.org
Subject: [netmod] =F0=9F=94=94 WG Last Call of CORECONF drafts: draft-ietf-= core-yang-cbor-12, -sid-11, -comi-09, -yang-library-01

It took us a long time to get the four CORECONF drafts in sync,
but now we are ready for WGLC.

This starts a working group last call for
=E2=80=94 draft-ietf-core-yang-cbor-12
=E2=80=94 draft-ietf-core-sid-11
=E2=80=94 draft-ietf-core-comi-09
=E2=80=94 draft-ietf-core-yang-library-01

ending on

=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 24:00 UTC on Tuesday, March 31, 2020.

(This includes some extra time for the IETF week and for cross-WG
coordination.)

This WGLC is copied to the netmod WG mailing list; please do have a look at these drafts as they are slated to become a part of the greater
YANG/NETCONF/RESTCONF family.=C2=A0 We intend the discussion to be on the CoRE mailing list, but if you find a fundamental issue with YANG or
RESTCONF, feel free to discuss that on netmod instead.

Please start a new email thread for each major issue that will need
discussion and make sure the subject line includes the draft name and
some sort of name for the issue.=C2=A0 (Minor issues such as typos can also=
be sent to the authors.)

If you read the draft and think it looks fine, please send a one line
email to the list or to the chairs letting us know that so we can get
a feel of how broad the review has been.

(To reviewers and authors:)=C2=A0 If you are aware of any patent claims tha= t
might apply to systems that implement these drafts, please review BCP 78 and BCP 79 and make any appropriate IPR declaration before the last-call ends. If you are not sure whether you need to make a declaration or not, please talk to the chairs and we will help.

Gr=C3=BC=C3=9Fe, Carsten

_______________________________________________
netmod mailing list
netmod@ietf.org https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/netmod
_______________________________________________
core mailing list
core@ietf.org
https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/core
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Wed, 8 Apr 2020 14:40:22 +0000 Date: Wed, 8 Apr 2020 16:40:21 +0200 From: Juergen Schoenwaelder To: Carsten Bormann Cc: core , NetMod WG , Ivaylo Petrov Message-ID: <20200408144021.airva4ksdn7xh7bw@anna.jacobs.jacobs-university.de> Reply-To: Juergen Schoenwaelder Mail-Followup-To: Carsten Bormann , core , NetMod WG , Ivaylo Petrov References: <20200331110237.zbo3zw74xlccur3w@anna.jacobs.jacobs-university.de> <20200407194758.luxnndxxsuixhzfo@anna.jacobs.jacobs-university.de> <16670AE8-DE0D-4444-9F64-ED6C67654886@tzi.org> <20200408065738.l7jnht536vxzacse@anna.jacobs.jacobs-university.de> <0817C3C8-420A-4994-89D4-2CDA150F682B@tzi.org> <20200408115029.sfcm2p4gebai3y74@anna.jacobs.jacobs-university.de> <0CBA1A2B-E7D0-4A9E-92C0-13F87974F971@tzi.org> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit In-Reply-To: <0CBA1A2B-E7D0-4A9E-92C0-13F87974F971@tzi.org> X-ClientProxiedBy: AM5PR0602CA0024.eurprd06.prod.outlook.com (2603:10a6:203:a3::34) To AM0P190MB0707.EURP190.PROD.OUTLOOK.COM (2603:10a6:208:196::24) MIME-Version: 1.0 X-MS-Exchange-MessageSentRepresentingType: 1 Received: from localhost (2001:638:709:5::7) by AM5PR0602CA0024.eurprd06.prod.outlook.com (2603:10a6:203:a3::34) with Microsoft SMTP Server (version=TLS1_2, cipher=TLS_ECDHE_RSA_WITH_AES_256_GCM_SHA384) id 15.20.2900.15 via Frontend Transport; Wed, 8 Apr 2020 14:40:22 +0000 X-Originating-IP: [2001:638:709:5::7] X-MS-PublicTrafficType: Email X-MS-Office365-Filtering-Correlation-Id: 166230a2-5180-4e9b-340a-08d7dbcac4ac X-MS-TrafficTypeDiagnostic: AM0P190MB0658: X-MS-Exchange-Transport-Forked: True X-Microsoft-Antispam-PRVS: X-MS-Oob-TLC-OOBClassifiers: OLM:7219; X-Forefront-PRVS: 0367A50BB1 X-Forefront-Antispam-Report: CIP:255.255.255.255; CTRY:; LANG:en; SCL:1; SRV:; IPV:NLI; SFV:NSPM; H:AM0P190MB0707.EURP190.PROD.OUTLOOK.COM; PTR:; CAT:NONE; SFTY:; SFS:(10009020)(346002)(39850400004)(376002)(136003)(396003)(366004)(5660300002)(54906003)(6486002)(786003)(1076003)(478600001)(4326008)(81166007)(3450700001)(86362001)(316002)(66556008)(16526019)(8936002)(66946007)(2906002)(6916009)(52116002)(186003)(66476007)(6496006)(8676002)(81156014); DIR:OUT; SFP:1101; Received-SPF: None (protection.outlook.com: jacobs-university.de does not designate permitted sender hosts) X-MS-Exchange-SenderADCheck: 1 X-Microsoft-Antispam: BCL:0; X-Microsoft-Antispam-Message-Info: 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 X-MS-Exchange-AntiSpam-MessageData: uVYcOhBChjJ667wsn8VxQ0LWQ767gnrIjzonQlh7/+KDo7R+hgR4oX9Kg4hhObbpaQ/FO/cCWcxcmNILKZpRfOkaPIHnEaZIoViQD/zfk9Wn0ThKcjfAQvLLDf7fZwCB9LOp3Oxqlf9f3BlRAbwAJ5sSjsgTIP6m0hrQCjJ6Cj8= X-OriginatorOrg: jacobs-university.de X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-Network-Message-Id: 166230a2-5180-4e9b-340a-08d7dbcac4ac X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-OriginalArrivalTime: 08 Apr 2020 14:40:22.6846 (UTC) X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-FromEntityHeader: Hosted X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-Id: f78e973e-5c0b-4ab8-bbd7-9887c95a8ebd X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-MailboxType: HOSTED X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-UserPrincipalName: 4ZIqhK//NFgtuQEaCwa1U3q54ExXfoKm+HtqCGtOMqq4dJzzRi4hEnQdz4Jf7E/gKvpfJh2yUeJJ0y0PzyxADyRgUpUFm7cGR6Vd8c0kqmU= X-MS-Exchange-Transport-CrossTenantHeadersStamped: AM0P190MB0658 Archived-At: Subject: Re: [netmod] [core] js review of draft-ietf-core-yang-cbor-12 X-BeenThere: netmod@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: NETMOD WG list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 08 Apr 2020 14:40:54 -0000 On Wed, Apr 08, 2020 at 01:55:47PM +0200, Carsten Bormann wrote: > >> Ha. > >> > >> Let’s create a registry in yang-cbor for id= values (initially filled with id=name). > >> -sid can then register id=sid in that. > > > > He? yang-cbor defines how to use sids as ids so I see no reason to not > > also register the id=sid in yang-cbor. I thought we settled on > > yang-cbor defines what sids are and the sid id details how they are > > assigned and how the number space is managed. This way, yang-cbor is > > the base document and the sid document has a normative reference to > > yang-cbor and comi has a normative reference to yang-cbor. Is there > > a reason that speaks against this? > > Hi, > > The media type could simply say “uses the concept of SIDs†or it could say “uses SIDs as allocated in -sidâ€. > I’m not sure the media type needs to say anything at all about this, but if it does, for completeness I think it would need to do the latter (so we can have other media types that get their SIDs elsewhere). > That would mean a normative reference from yang-cbor to -sid. > The registry trick turns that around. > I want a bit that tells me how instance naming is done, using names or SIDs. I want to use this to send a query and tell the server that I want to get CBOR encoded data with SIDS GET /restconf/yang-library-version HTTP/1.1 Host: example.com Accept: application/yang-data+cbor;id=sid or with names are keys GET /restconf/yang-library-version HTTP/1.1 Host: example.com Accept: application/yang-data+cbor;id=name This bit should be defined in YANG-CBOR since this document goes into quite some detail defining both options to name data. The question whether alternate schemes can exist to allocate SIDs is less important for me. I hope multiple schemes to assign SIDs will not be needed - or only needed in case the scheme defined in the SID document turns out to be broken up to the point that it can only be replaced. That said: A real complication may be the YANG versioning work. Once publishedd YANG definitions are allowed to change arbitrarily, the allocation and management of SIDs may get really interesting. Or is the idea that once we conclude the current SID allocation scheme to be broken, we go define a SIDplus allocation scheme and then we still use SIDs in YANG-CBOR but the meaning of the numbers is entirely different, i.e., we use GET /restconf/yang-library-version HTTP/1.1 Host: example.com Accept: application/yang-data+cbor;id=sidplus to make it clear that the SID numbers now mean something different? This may make sense and then it may make sense to define application/yang-data+cbor;id=name in YANG-CBOR and to define application/yang-data+cbor;id=sid in the SID document - which means you can't use SIDs with just YANG-CBOR but only in the context of another document detailing how SIDs are allocated and managed. Perhaps this is what you have in mind? Whatever we conclude, it would be nice to get things properly documented so that we recall the grand plan in N years from now. /js -- Juergen Schoenwaelder Jacobs University Bremen gGmbH Phone: +49 421 200 3587 Campus Ring 1 | 28759 Bremen | Germany Fax: +49 421 200 3103 From nobody Wed Apr 8 09:07:43 2020 Return-Path: X-Original-To: netmod@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: netmod@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 623053A0F2D for ; Wed, 8 Apr 2020 09:07:38 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.887 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.887 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, T_SPF_PERMERROR=0.01, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=unavailable autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=yumaworks-com.20150623.gappssmtp.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 58v9_vw4Xtlh for ; Wed, 8 Apr 2020 09:07:35 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail-yb1-xb2f.google.com (mail-yb1-xb2f.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:4864:20::b2f]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id BBA8A3A0F2A for ; Wed, 8 Apr 2020 09:07:35 -0700 (PDT) Received: by mail-yb1-xb2f.google.com with SMTP id c13so4005961ybp.9 for ; Wed, 08 Apr 2020 09:07:35 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=yumaworks-com.20150623.gappssmtp.com; s=20150623; h=mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date:message-id:subject:to; bh=XV6ySZwjt7D3IoeQrKeC1Qk5KSzmaJBewKqrNrT+oiY=; b=q6tBdOjRGkxYelnTuTiFj9WDcy2nPscpll89I6H1vZLqnuAgwRb94SMxJtPPbpzX85 Av2DHlV5VYG3mlXUItFA1c14dlIQZMBoI953ElS/fAr5Rfh0tv8a5j0mHf6NjUJ5FNY9 Wb/mAJ14JTF40pUDw4FXgUSQNlb02jBPiutydC87zpJ3K/irgipNQLQlxWq52Tav+V9/ ZbPrq/FATpXrd9mp1ax+InX4VWTm/BqmOrU8l37FtOFU7zXwOATNErKzDuCyYoxz4bNa gDmFpR8lRPxssxloG3vtM5q+KRoZh/Q6Rum9obtCw5NsVNT+yYQ0pdubemuV+dcW/eRF GqrA== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date :message-id:subject:to; bh=XV6ySZwjt7D3IoeQrKeC1Qk5KSzmaJBewKqrNrT+oiY=; b=gvJ9OQZ9lP6FVYLML1hR+PMRBA3GYrNrqkj9gai/QBqtvwg2OyT/a1HogBegwaQK9E w5LHYLvqAHB8iwluqgAgBGeRIKKPhOtOVCMMzIYA439D4nA7ffi/yqHCP747kPckk1iu UU6n97/BETUXBglQ0jjifYcsOlSu4/DP5Bmr1oLRmqX+sy8AJSucU8DyS3KKdyZSTfNJ qc/EfegYDkiciElI6pg2k2aq4aMhvU8eO9bJen8DR6RnAqIufgckJEdTx0zjQdkn6R4T MHDf8QG0jR6Zime4Nnw7dBZxD0EUDb1zIB5UmBwKs5GmpJNlQEjMBAhhsNmEHEBc7O6V JkVg== X-Gm-Message-State: AGi0PuZVK6/8zh38mAyXmS7FqzW7chQJ5LNodHTdStFaVflb8tkPxr3T BWJdJ9QUXEOMcI9Ga854muWzClUu8+N8BhLUygCPtg== X-Google-Smtp-Source: APiQypI7PE9T/IxAQIriT050TlwQgGbOEzw9dyg7Pv+IItSU/lnfOeLvWbXYyw3wSj6pdHmGjF2kdLRru6z2+wqTes0= X-Received: by 2002:a25:602:: with SMTP id 2mr13371699ybg.359.1586362054237; Wed, 08 Apr 2020 09:07:34 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 References: <20200331110237.zbo3zw74xlccur3w@anna.jacobs.jacobs-university.de> <20200407194758.luxnndxxsuixhzfo@anna.jacobs.jacobs-university.de> <16670AE8-DE0D-4444-9F64-ED6C67654886@tzi.org> <20200408065738.l7jnht536vxzacse@anna.jacobs.jacobs-university.de> <0817C3C8-420A-4994-89D4-2CDA150F682B@tzi.org> <20200408115029.sfcm2p4gebai3y74@anna.jacobs.jacobs-university.de> <0CBA1A2B-E7D0-4A9E-92C0-13F87974F971@tzi.org> <20200408144021.airva4ksdn7xh7bw@anna.jacobs.jacobs-university.de> In-Reply-To: <20200408144021.airva4ksdn7xh7bw@anna.jacobs.jacobs-university.de> From: Andy Bierman Date: Wed, 8 Apr 2020 09:07:23 -0700 Message-ID: To: Juergen Schoenwaelder , Carsten Bormann , core , NetMod WG , Ivaylo Petrov Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="000000000000ba764a05a2c9b2f9" Archived-At: Subject: Re: [netmod] [core] js review of draft-ietf-core-yang-cbor-12 X-BeenThere: netmod@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: NETMOD WG list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 08 Apr 2020 16:07:38 -0000 --000000000000ba764a05a2c9b2f9 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable On Wed, Apr 8, 2020 at 7:41 AM Juergen Schoenwaelder < j.schoenwaelder@jacobs-university.de> wrote: > On Wed, Apr 08, 2020 at 01:55:47PM +0200, Carsten Bormann wrote: > > >> Ha. > > >> > > >> Let=E2=80=99s create a registry in yang-cbor for id=3D values (initi= ally filled > with id=3Dname). > > >> -sid can then register id=3Dsid in that. > > > > > > He? yang-cbor defines how to use sids as ids so I see no reason to no= t > > > also register the id=3Dsid in yang-cbor. I thought we settled on > > > yang-cbor defines what sids are and the sid id details how they are > > > assigned and how the number space is managed. This way, yang-cbor is > > > the base document and the sid document has a normative reference to > > > yang-cbor and comi has a normative reference to yang-cbor. Is there > > > a reason that speaks against this? > > > > Hi, > > > > The media type could simply say =E2=80=9Cuses the concept of SIDs=E2=80= =9D or it could > say =E2=80=9Cuses SIDs as allocated in -sid=E2=80=9D. > > I=E2=80=99m not sure the media type needs to say anything at all about = this, but > if it does, for completeness I think it would need to do the latter (so w= e > can have other media types that get their SIDs elsewhere). > > That would mean a normative reference from yang-cbor to -sid. > > The registry trick turns that around. > > > > I want a bit that tells me how instance naming is done, using names or > SIDs. I want to use this to send a query and tell the server that I > want to get CBOR encoded data with SIDS > > GET /restconf/yang-library-version HTTP/1.1 > Host: example.com > Accept: application/yang-data+cbor;id=3Dsid > > or with names are keys > > GET /restconf/yang-library-version HTTP/1.1 > Host: example.com > Accept: application/yang-data+cbor;id=3Dname > > This bit should be defined in YANG-CBOR since this document goes into > quite some detail defining both options to name data. > > It would be up to the server vendor whether the protocol supported multiple variants of CBOR encoding. The intent for CoMI is that a server without name string support could be implemented. The question whether alternate schemes can exist to allocate SIDs is > less important for me. I hope multiple schemes to assign SIDs will not > be needed - or only needed in case the scheme defined in the SID > document turns out to be broken up to the point that it can only be > replaced. > > That said: A real complication may be the YANG versioning work. Once > publishedd YANG definitions are allowed to change arbitrarily, the > allocation and management of SIDs may get really interesting. > > The SID assignments cannot change once an RFC is published. Any NBC changes to published modules would require new SID assignments. Or is the idea that once we conclude the current SID allocation scheme > to be broken, we go define a SIDplus allocation scheme and then we > still use SIDs in YANG-CBOR but the meaning of the numbers is entirely > different, i.e., we use > > GET /restconf/yang-library-version HTTP/1.1 > Host: example.com > Accept: application/yang-data+cbor;id=3Dsidplus > > to make it clear that the SID numbers now mean something different? > I do not understand why the SID allocation scheme is broken but if future requirements make it deficient then a replacement (e.g. sid2, sidplus) coul= d be introduced. > This may make sense and then it may make sense to define > > application/yang-data+cbor;id=3Dname > > in YANG-CBOR and to define > > application/yang-data+cbor;id=3Dsid > > in the SID document - which means you can't use SIDs with just > YANG-CBOR but only in the context of another document detailing how > SIDs are allocated and managed. Perhaps this is what you have in mind? > > Whatever we conclude, it would be nice to get things properly > documented so that we recall the grand plan in N years from now. > > /js > > Andy > -- > Juergen Schoenwaelder Jacobs University Bremen gGmbH > Phone: +49 421 200 3587 Campus Ring 1 | 28759 Bremen | Germany > Fax: +49 421 200 3103 > > _______________________________________________ > netmod mailing list > netmod@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/netmod > --000000000000ba764a05a2c9b2f9 Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable


=
On Wed, Apr 8, 2020 at 7:41 AM Juerge= n Schoenwaelder <j.schoenwaelder@jacobs-university.de> wrote:
On Wed, Apr 08, 2020 at 01:55:47PM +02= 00, Carsten Bormann wrote:
> >> Ha.
> >>
> >> Let=E2=80=99s create a registry in yang-cbor for id=3D values= (initially filled with id=3Dname).
> >> -sid can then register id=3Dsid in that.
> >
> > He? yang-cbor defines how to use sids as ids so I see no reason t= o not
> > also register the id=3Dsid in yang-cbor. I thought we settled on<= br> > > yang-cbor defines what sids are and the sid id details how they a= re
> > assigned and how the number space is managed. This way, yang-cbor= is
> > the base document and the sid document has a normative reference = to
> > yang-cbor and comi has a normative reference to yang-cbor. Is the= re
> > a reason that speaks against this?
>
> Hi,
>
> The media type could simply say =E2=80=9Cuses the concept of SIDs=E2= =80=9D or it could say =E2=80=9Cuses SIDs as allocated in -sid=E2=80=9D. > I=E2=80=99m not sure the media type needs to say anything at all about= this, but if it does, for completeness I think it would need to do the lat= ter (so we can have other media types that get their SIDs elsewhere).
> That would mean a normative reference from yang-cbor to -sid.
> The registry trick turns that around.
>

I want a bit that tells me how instance naming is done, using names or
SIDs. I want to use this to send a query and tell the server that I
want to get CBOR encoded data with SIDS

=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 GET /restconf/yang-library-version HTTP/1.1
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 Host: example.com
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 Accept: application/yang-data+cbor;id=3Dsid

or with names are keys

=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 GET /restconf/yang-library-version HTTP/1.1
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 Host: example.com
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 Accept: application/yang-data+cbor;id=3Dname

This bit should be defined in YANG-CBOR since this document goes into
quite some detail defining both options to name data.



It would be up to the s= erver vendor whether the protocol supported
multiple variants of = CBOR encoding.=C2=A0 The intent for CoMI is that
a server without= name string support could be implemented.


The question whether alternate schemes can exist to allocate SIDs is
less important for me. I hope multiple schemes to assign SIDs will not
be needed - or only needed in case the scheme defined in the SID
document turns out to be broken up to the point that it can only be
replaced.

That said: A real complication may be the YANG versioning work. Once
publishedd YANG definitions are allowed to change arbitrarily, the
allocation and management of SIDs may get really interesting.


The SID assignments cannot change once= an RFC is published.
Any NBC changes to published modules would = require new SID assignments.

Or is the idea that once we conclude the current SID allocation scheme
to be broken, we go define a SIDplus allocation scheme and then we
still use SIDs in YANG-CBOR but the meaning of the numbers is entirely
different, i.e., we use

=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 GET /restconf/yang-library-version HTTP/1.1
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 Host: example.com
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 Accept: application/yang-data+cbor;id=3Dsidplus

to make it clear that the SID numbers now mean something different?


I do not understand why the SID= allocation scheme is broken but if future
requirements make it d= eficient then a replacement (e.g. sid2, sidplus) could
be introdu= ced.

=C2=A0
This may make sense and then it may make sense to define

=C2=A0 =C2=A0 application/yang-data+cbor;id=3Dname

in YANG-CBOR and to define

=C2=A0 =C2=A0 application/yang-data+cbor;id=3Dsid

in the SID document - which means you can't use SIDs with just
YANG-CBOR but only in the context of another document detailing how
SIDs are allocated and managed. Perhaps this is what you have in mind?

Whatever we conclude, it would be nice to get things properly
documented so that we recall the grand plan in N years from now.
=C2=A0
=C2=A0=
/js


Andy
=C2=A0
--
Juergen Schoenwaelder=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0Jacobs Univer= sity Bremen gGmbH
Phone: +49 421 200 3587=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0Campus Ring 1 | 28= 759 Bremen | Germany
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--000000000000ba764a05a2c9b2f9-- From nobody Wed Apr 8 09:19:15 2020 Return-Path: X-Original-To: netmod@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: netmod@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id CF8813A0D1A for ; Wed, 8 Apr 2020 09:19:13 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.887 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.887 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, T_SPF_PERMERROR=0.01, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=yumaworks-com.20150623.gappssmtp.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id XDDATzK1KOpa for ; Wed, 8 Apr 2020 09:19:12 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail-yb1-xb2e.google.com (mail-yb1-xb2e.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:4864:20::b2e]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 944B23A0D04 for ; Wed, 8 Apr 2020 09:19:12 -0700 (PDT) Received: by mail-yb1-xb2e.google.com with SMTP id n2so4052545ybg.4 for ; Wed, 08 Apr 2020 09:19:12 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=yumaworks-com.20150623.gappssmtp.com; s=20150623; h=mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date:message-id:subject:to :cc; bh=ndqy8qcnPS8FHwJrdXOjn9LUfPsj7M5BqXwz/k8S/fQ=; b=HJSs2xdZ8KIHAQzsjgEhskUpH5e/7fdUK0fFxS5+9xi9X077jOSDz+Qb7VMWF33k5k VyVVH/cBzWzYuKJS1+CR25dFR305UPFxGS3t6Y672qrQH3BexRd1BTzoEzXgi8zx4RYI /oO9QeiUsx1XTzHxCJKVJor0jQCMtbbwcOVgOcCa5/YWuw6LdHGAI56BvdQ4uQeMYamm FY844WTbP5TazPLIpVZx8gALtsm7aDhDCrPBWWICs/ZtkLdwAtPzEp3xrpzXJfC6wuIh 5/ym/rHZeG+wppTIgJib7Mjo8ohwz8JibXjlHcR6WPL41fSWEw6DNO52JZ1aYOmiG4eK KCig== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date :message-id:subject:to:cc; bh=ndqy8qcnPS8FHwJrdXOjn9LUfPsj7M5BqXwz/k8S/fQ=; b=DSL/un152RtSEjBF2IJUOIE7PTnQ5/st8zA+D3XPv+jB1iTkuINs9qAWDSIRy8M5he D7fZGSjNUitO9AG7ZcRO6l6ERtoIzLw5IA2frN1YiPmhEHCd5FgoWhIzyecHIFegaY6t jvOQUTSFc5Vm9Lxb4disHy/9iluIqlIPvqKml+sqY5Wp/V9oeIC7eqnRuwqMpk8DVqzp DVSklq0OuswFYNTtb5QPVJrHSOc5Q2K80ITZAIM7txndXybO8Vb2jQ9Zk8lMxXhfwtxq K3REr2hwu971FggGY+9XuGYG0zNGWfuijLkWWAO7AV+UJTW26CwzxJL+Q+eytXhpz0uJ FfxQ== X-Gm-Message-State: AGi0PuaS37WY6TjYMWz4Npcg00S74B16xF3dl2rr/YiQ05aIDM3eSwtR lcVOv2wc2WPVsm+CN5gQdPWDVRdvElHP1bq5+fn4Yw== X-Google-Smtp-Source: APiQypJIZmClN2yA1zH6LCmJMJhbgIxwuit+zOnUpZlU859ZJ8S96nZP79hrQH6Na3aCP3za2iVytFl2Ji0+zLBRmEw= X-Received: by 2002:a25:a281:: with SMTP id c1mr14033761ybi.234.1586362751421; Wed, 08 Apr 2020 09:19:11 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 References: <20200331110237.zbo3zw74xlccur3w@anna.jacobs.jacobs-university.de> <20200407194758.luxnndxxsuixhzfo@anna.jacobs.jacobs-university.de> <16670AE8-DE0D-4444-9F64-ED6C67654886@tzi.org> <20200408065738.l7jnht536vxzacse@anna.jacobs.jacobs-university.de> <0817C3C8-420A-4994-89D4-2CDA150F682B@tzi.org> In-Reply-To: From: Andy Bierman Date: Wed, 8 Apr 2020 09:19:00 -0700 Message-ID: To: Carsten Bormann Cc: Juergen Schoenwaelder , NetMod WG , core , Ivaylo Petrov Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="00000000000048b3f405a2c9dcc0" Archived-At: Subject: Re: [netmod] [core] js review of draft-ietf-core-yang-cbor-12 X-BeenThere: netmod@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: NETMOD WG list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 08 Apr 2020 16:19:14 -0000 --00000000000048b3f405a2c9dcc0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable On Wed, Apr 8, 2020 at 3:58 AM Carsten Bormann wrote: > On 2020-04-08, at 10:49, Carsten Bormann wrote: > > > > One way to build a content-type from a media-type name is to add a > parameter: > > > > application/yang-data+cbor; id=3Dname > > application/yang-data+cbor; id=3Dsid > > Ha. > > Let=E2=80=99s create a registry in yang-cbor for id=3D values (initially = filled with > id=3Dname). > -sid can then register id=3Dsid in that. > > Look, ma, no normative references! > > Gr=C3=BC=C3=9Fe, Carsten > > PS. If you wonder why I care about normative references: RFC 7252 got > stuck for a year in 2013 for an ill-advised normative reference. And hav= e > a look at > https://www.rfc-editor.org/current_queue.php#draft-ietf-anima-grasp =E2= =80=94 > 140+ weeks of waiting for a (totally unneeded) normative reference=E2=80= =A6 > > draft-ietf-netmod-syslog-model-26 has been in MISREF state for 754 days and counting. Talk about ill-advised normative references... Andy > _______________________________________________ > netmod mailing list > netmod@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/netmod > --00000000000048b3f405a2c9dcc0 Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable


=
On Wed, Apr 8, 2020 at 3:58 AM Carste= n Bormann <cabo@tzi.org> wrote:
On 2020-04-08, at= 10:49, Carsten Bormann <cabo@tzi.org> wrote:
>
> One way to build a content-type from a media-type name is to add a par= ameter:
>
> application/yang-data+cbor; id=3Dname
> application/yang-data+cbor; id=3Dsid

Ha.

Let=E2=80=99s create a registry in yang-cbor for id=3D values (initially fi= lled with id=3Dname).
-sid can then register id=3Dsid in that.

Look, ma, no normative references!

Gr=C3=BC=C3=9Fe, Carsten

PS. If you wonder why I care about normative references: RFC 7252 got stuck= for a year in 2013 for an ill-advised normative reference.=C2=A0 And have = a look at https://www.rfc-editor.= org/current_queue.php#draft-ietf-anima-grasp =E2=80=94 140+ weeks of wa= iting for a (totally unneeded) normative reference=E2=80=A6


draft-ietf-netmod-syslog-model-26 has = been in MISREF=C2=A0state for 754 days and counting.
Talk about i= ll-advised normative references...

Andy
= =C2=A0
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This document uses groupings from I-Ds it is waiting for, I would not call such a normative reference ill-advised. I hope Kent knows about this usage of his I-Ds. At the time of the syslog I-D approval, we had draft-ietf-netconf-tls-client-server-05, we are not at draft-ietf-netconf-tls-client-server-18 (and I can't tell whether anything has changed affecting draft-ietf-netmod-syslog-model-26). /js -- Juergen Schoenwaelder Jacobs University Bremen gGmbH Phone: +49 421 200 3587 Campus Ring 1 | 28759 Bremen | Germany Fax: +49 421 200 3103 From nobody Thu Apr 9 01:47:38 2020 Return-Path: X-Original-To: netmod@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: netmod@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 087A53A0F5E; Thu, 9 Apr 2020 01:47:26 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.9 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.9 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (1024-bit key) 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<20200331110237.zbo3zw74xlccur3w@anna.jacobs.jacobs-university.de> <20200407194758.luxnndxxsuixhzfo@anna.jacobs.jacobs-university.de> <16670AE8-DE0D-4444-9F64-ED6C67654886@tzi.org> <20200408065738.l7jnht536vxzacse@anna.jacobs.jacobs-university.de> <0817C3C8-420A-4994-89D4-2CDA150F682B@tzi.org> <20200409073902.rdjyothahpsn6zbd@anna.jacobs.jacobs-university.de> In-Reply-To: <20200409073902.rdjyothahpsn6zbd@anna.jacobs.jacobs-university.de> From: Andy Bierman Date: Thu, 9 Apr 2020 06:56:20 -0700 Message-ID: To: Juergen Schoenwaelder , Andy Bierman , Carsten Bormann , NetMod WG Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="000000000000e7b85f05a2dbfb88" Archived-At: Subject: Re: [netmod] [core] js review of draft-ietf-core-yang-cbor-12 X-BeenThere: netmod@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: NETMOD WG list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 09 Apr 2020 13:56:38 -0000 --000000000000e7b85f05a2dbfb88 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" On Thu, Apr 9, 2020 at 12:39 AM Juergen Schoenwaelder < j.schoenwaelder@jacobs-university.de> wrote: > On Wed, Apr 08, 2020 at 09:19:00AM -0700, Andy Bierman wrote: > > > draft-ietf-netmod-syslog-model-26 has been in MISREF state for 754 days > and > > counting. > > Talk about ill-advised normative references... > > This document uses groupings from I-Ds it is waiting for, I would not > call such a normative reference ill-advised. I hope Kent knows about > this usage of his I-Ds. At the time of the syslog I-D approval, we had > draft-ietf-netconf-tls-client-server-05, we are not at > draft-ietf-netconf-tls-client-server-18 (and I can't tell whether > anything has changed affecting draft-ietf-netmod-syslog-model-26). > > The "signing/cert-signers/cert-signer/cert container is part of an if-feature subtree so it is clearly optional. IMO it is ill-advised to get held up for 2+ years for an optional feature. uses ks:private-key-grouping; uses ks:certificate-grouping; These groupings are defunct, which causes the ietf-syslog module to have fatal errors. The ietf-syslog draft will eventually get sent back to the WG for a rewrite. We need to learn how to use augments to prevent MISREF logjams and get modules done in a reasonable timeframe. The client-server drafts just keep growing in scope. Any attempts to avoid boiling the ocean appear to be unsuccessful. /js > > Andy > -- > Juergen Schoenwaelder Jacobs University Bremen gGmbH > Phone: +49 421 200 3587 Campus Ring 1 | 28759 Bremen | Germany > Fax: +49 421 200 3103 > --000000000000e7b85f05a2dbfb88 Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable


=
On Thu, Apr 9, 2020 at 12:39 AM Juerg= en Schoenwaelder <j.schoenwaelder@jacobs-university.de> wrote:
On Wed, Apr 08, 2020 at 09:19:00AM -0= 700, Andy Bierman wrote:

> draft-ietf-netmod-syslog-model-26 has been in MISREF state for 754 day= s and
> counting.
> Talk about ill-advised normative references...

This document uses groupings from I-Ds it is waiting for, I would not
call such a normative reference ill-advised. I hope Kent knows about
this usage of his I-Ds. At the time of the syslog I-D approval, we had
draft-ietf-netconf-tls-client-server-05, we are not at
draft-ietf-netconf-tls-client-server-18 (and I can't tell whether
anything has changed affecting draft-ietf-netmod-syslog-model-26).


=C2=A0
The "signing/cer= t-signers/cert-signer/cert container is part of an if-feature subtree so it= is clearly optional.=C2=A0
IMO it is ill-advised to get held up = for 2+ years for an optional feature.

=C2=A0 =C2= =A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 uses ks:private-key-gr= ouping;
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 u= ses ks:certificate-grouping;

These groupings a= re defunct, which causes the ietf-syslog module to have fatal errors.
=
The ietf-syslog draft will eventually get sent back to the WG for a re= write.

We need to learn how to use augments to pre= vent MISREF=C2=A0logjams and get modules
done in a reasonable tim= eframe. The client-server drafts just keep growing in scope.
Any = attempts to avoid boiling the ocean appear to be unsuccessful.

/js


Andy
=C2=A0
--
Juergen Schoenwaelder=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0Jacobs Univer= sity Bremen gGmbH
Phone: +49 421 200 3587=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0Campus Ring 1 | 28= 759 Bremen | Germany
Fax:=C2=A0 =C2=A0+49 421 200 3103=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0<https://www.jacobs-university.de/>
--000000000000e7b85f05a2dbfb88-- From nobody Thu Apr 9 08:26:10 2020 Return-Path: <010001715f8c4aa2-21fad32a-36d7-441e-bbb7-24e3aef1c229-000000@amazonses.watsen.net> X-Original-To: netmod@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: netmod@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id DF4583A09D9 for ; Thu, 9 Apr 2020 08:26:08 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.896 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.896 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_NONE=0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=unavailable autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (1024-bit key) header.d=amazonses.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 8nHi6DURzXjt for ; Thu, 9 Apr 2020 08:26:03 -0700 (PDT) Received: from a48-93.smtp-out.amazonses.com (a48-93.smtp-out.amazonses.com [54.240.48.93]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id AFC543A09DB for ; Thu, 9 Apr 2020 08:26:03 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; q=dns/txt; c=relaxed/simple; s=224i4yxa5dv7c2xz3womw6peuasteono; d=amazonses.com; t=1586445962; h=From:Message-Id:Content-Type:Mime-Version:Subject:Date:In-Reply-To:Cc:To:References:Feedback-ID; bh=rjV6+uIcoc0HE8lZduWjNupyFiHVwitiegXDGTTJxPE=; b=EK6/MV5008KRaK5Rv21fQYAFv+b2VwTl9C+ihXhjdbE1UzeDa/leXetRppBhgZXg fZPmNAkTYD1Ubi/ksh+gKK5a2vBx3JXI1fLP432qehkPoki5XnRvVlksWzfk2Vh5Kto +p+nb8A+Dq0Bv4cVLAiLc5QWyXJqi1sisa2pszh0= From: Kent Watsen Message-ID: <010001715f8c4aa2-21fad32a-36d7-441e-bbb7-24e3aef1c229-000000@email.amazonses.com> Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="Apple-Mail=_6E2FB6EF-A1E3-4BC0-9F26-648C757B7328" Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 12.4 \(3445.104.11\)) Date: Thu, 9 Apr 2020 15:26:02 +0000 In-Reply-To: <20200406074235.o6gkpjsim77xfzv7@anna.jacobs.jacobs-university.de> Cc: Radek Krejci , "netmod@ietf.org" , "Rob Wilton (rwilton)" To: Juergen Schoenwaelder , =?utf-8?Q?Martin_Bj=C3=B6rklund?= References: <20200327161318.ykrx2s36bhmaglxq@anna.jacobs.jacobs-university.de> <20200403.155421.968858617291773287.id@4668.se> <9c3ee87c0e9d14c8921796c4b53d44620b53a942.camel@nic.cz> <20200403165538.2lk4x5j32e3ctl4t@anna.jacobs.jacobs-university.de> <0a546588-6f87-3362-17da-37de8ea08956@cesnet.cz> <20200406074235.o6gkpjsim77xfzv7@anna.jacobs.jacobs-university.de> X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.3445.104.11) X-SES-Outgoing: 2020.04.09-54.240.48.93 Feedback-ID: 1.us-east-1.DKmIRZFhhsBhtmFMNikgwZUWVrODEw9qVcPhqJEI2DA=:AmazonSES Archived-At: Subject: Re: [netmod] [Technical Errata Reported] RFC7950 (6031) X-BeenThere: netmod@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: NETMOD WG list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 09 Apr 2020 15:26:09 -0000 --Apple-Mail=_6E2FB6EF-A1E3-4BC0-9F26-648C757B7328 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 > On Apr 6, 2020, at 3:42 AM, Juergen Schoenwaelder = wrote: >=20 > The definition I found in RFC 8639 is this: >=20 > leaf stream { > type stream-ref { > require-instance false; > } > mandatory true; > description > "Indicates the event stream to be considered for > this subscription."; > } >=20 > This could be changed to: >=20 > leaf stream { > type leafref { > path "/sn:streams/sn:stream/sn:name"; > require-instance false; > } > mandatory true; > description > "Indicates the event stream to be considered for > this subscription."; > } >=20 I can confirm that `yanglint` validates the module cleanly after this = change. > On Apr 6, 2020, at 7:38 AM, Martin Bj=C3=B6rklund = wrote: >=20 > I think the correct fix is to change the text so that > "require-instance" is not classified as a restriction and keep the > default. =20 Agreed. > Also, I think that it would be easiest (for backwards > compatibility w/ existing models) to allow "require-inetance" to be > changed in derived types. >=20 > However, this cannot imo be done in an errata. While I appreciate Radek and Michal=E2=80=99s perspective, I also think = that is would be best for the community for `yanglint` to support this, = as they are published modules doing it. As an aside, I feel that all modules should be tested against all = available validation tools during the publication process, but to find = issues in the modules and well as possibly improve the tools. Sadly, I only have `yanglint` and `yangson` available to me. I just = checked for the =E2=80=9Cyang validator=E2=80=9D project, but both = www.yangvalidator.com and = https://www.yangcatalog.org/yangvalidator = seem to be down. Kent // contributor --Apple-Mail=_6E2FB6EF-A1E3-4BC0-9F26-648C757B7328 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/html; charset=utf-8

On Apr 6, 2020, at 3:42 AM, Juergen Schoenwaelder <j.schoenwaelder@jacobs-university.de> wrote:

The definition I found in RFC = 8639 is this:

       leaf stream = {
         type = stream-ref {
          &nb= sp;require-instance false;
         }<= br style=3D"caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: Helvetica; = font-size: 14px; font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: normal; = font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; text-align: start; = text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; = word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; text-decoration: = none;" class=3D"">         mandatory= true;
         descripti= on
          &nb= sp;"Indicates the event stream to be considered for
          &nb= sp; this subscription.";
       }

This could be changed = to:

       leaf stream = {
         type = leafref {
    path = "/sn:streams/sn:stream/sn:name";
          &nb= sp;require-instance false;
         }<= br style=3D"caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: Helvetica; = font-size: 14px; font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: normal; = font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; text-align: start; = text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; = word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; text-decoration: = none;" class=3D"">         mandatory= true;
         descripti= on
          &nb= sp;"Indicates the event stream to be considered for
          &nb= sp; this subscription.";
       }


I can = confirm that `yanglint` validates the module cleanly after this = change.



On Apr = 6, 2020, at 7:38 AM, Martin Bj=C3=B6rklund <mbj+ietf@4668.se> = wrote:

I think the correct fix is to change the text so = that
"require-instance" is not classified as a = restriction and keep the
default. =  

Agreed.


Also, I think that it would be easiest (for = backwards
compatibility w/ existing models) to allow = "require-inetance" to be
changed in derived = types.

However, this cannot imo be done in an errata.

While I appreciate = Radek and Michal=E2=80=99s perspective, I also think that is would be = best for the community for `yanglint` to support this, as they are = published modules doing it.

As an aside, I feel that all modules = should be tested against all available validation tools during the = publication process, but to find issues in the modules and well as = possibly improve the tools.

Sadly, I only have `yanglint` and `yangson` available to me. =  I just checked for the =E2=80=9Cyang validator=E2=80=9D project, = but both www.yangvalidator.com and https://www.yangcatalog.org/yangvalidator seem to be = down.


Kent // contributor

= --Apple-Mail=_6E2FB6EF-A1E3-4BC0-9F26-648C757B7328-- From nobody Thu Apr 9 13:11:24 2020 Return-Path: <0100017160917518-a18954f3-8e57-4286-904a-5a3e9779ff31-000000@amazonses.watsen.net> X-Original-To: netmod@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: netmod@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id ED4103A0D73 for ; Thu, 9 Apr 2020 13:11:22 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.896 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.896 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_NONE=0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (1024-bit key) header.d=amazonses.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id R2LLJHvy-jep for ; Thu, 9 Apr 2020 13:11:19 -0700 (PDT) Received: from a48-93.smtp-out.amazonses.com (a48-93.smtp-out.amazonses.com [54.240.48.93]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 262783A0D39 for ; Thu, 9 Apr 2020 13:11:19 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; q=dns/txt; c=relaxed/simple; s=224i4yxa5dv7c2xz3womw6peuasteono; d=amazonses.com; t=1586463078; h=From:Message-Id:Content-Type:Mime-Version:Subject:Date:In-Reply-To:Cc:To:References:Feedback-ID; bh=ms9FskUoV2dc17J1Ins6fsZ2Yme6BLKU1ZyE9MvKhyo=; b=ix5l73BhHdS6iQyei1JlxNCQcCQ/hsc/3Hw5NLS5trpEN1C74r2lM4IaeQ8+K1mb REsU4oln7KEaRIBNOJHInNyRB/VXfPhwKPrQps7RWXupLuGdIUIurW6eUr06Fb2Bq6O HrBTVuM0TF7ya3z0XJ+7tcoZTqBxgWFdsLFBEjDo= From: Kent Watsen Message-ID: <0100017160917518-a18954f3-8e57-4286-904a-5a3e9779ff31-000000@email.amazonses.com> Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="Apple-Mail=_C7311CBF-92D8-485A-A1F1-2054ED4A1CA2" Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 12.4 \(3445.104.11\)) Date: Thu, 9 Apr 2020 20:11:17 +0000 In-Reply-To: Cc: "netmod@ietf.org" To: =?utf-8?Q?Bal=C3=A1zs_Lengyel?= References: <010001712ce4c5fe-04a059c3-ced3-4e6d-8389-5dd7c1257ac2-000000@email.amazonses.com> <010001712e483a1b-204d92e3-7046-46fb-b6b8-13d8ad4cb9ff-000000@email.amazonses.com> X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.3445.104.11) X-SES-Outgoing: 2020.04.09-54.240.48.93 Feedback-ID: 1.us-east-1.DKmIRZFhhsBhtmFMNikgwZUWVrODEw9qVcPhqJEI2DA=:AmazonSES Archived-At: Subject: Re: [netmod] Shepherd review on draft-ietf-netmod-yang-instance-file-format-10 X-BeenThere: netmod@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: NETMOD WG list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 09 Apr 2020 20:11:23 -0000 --Apple-Mail=_C7311CBF-92D8-485A-A1F1-2054ED4A1CA2 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Hi Balazs, > On Apr 8, 2020, at 8:06 AM, Bal=C3=A1zs Lengyel = wrote: >=20 > Hello Kent, > Thanks for the review. See answers below. > I tried to address all you comments, sorry if I missed something.=20 > I updated the draft and uploaded a -11 version. Please check/advance = it. >=20 > One question I could not settle: XML2RFC does not accept > = =20 > Only > =20 > Why ? Please help. Because it=E2=80=99s a working group document now and so uses the = =E2=80=9Cietf=E2=80=9D prefix. Try this: = =20 >=20 > Structural Issues: >=20 > - S5 contains an mix of important and unimportant information. I = think that the most important thing to state that the module defines an = offline format that MAY contain security sensitive information, and thus = safe handling is advised. Maybe also say something about because the = YANG module only defines a =E2=80=9Cstructure=E2=80=9D, the Security = Considerations doesn=E2=80=99t follow the template specified in = https://tools.ietf.org/html/rfc8407#section-3.7.1). For instance: s/is = designed as a wrapper specifying a format and a metadata header for YANG = instance data defined by the content-schema/specifies an offline format/ > BALAZS: Most of text was required to be put there by earlier reviewers = (Mostly Juergen and Acee Lindem) and sent to the mailing list. > I added that we do not follow the security template for YANG models. Please add the reference to = https://tools.ietf.org/html/rfc8407#section-3.7.1 = per above. > - S6.1. the full registration is not inside the
. (How could = happen?) > BALAZS: Corrected > - S8.1: I-D.ietf-netmod-yang-data-ext should be listed last, as the = number it will be the greater than any other... > BALAZS: The order of references is decided by Xml2Rfc. In the = draft-..xml it is the last. > - S8.1: RFC8340 is Informative > BALAZS: OK > - S8.1: agreed that RFC8525 is Normative, but the only place it it = referenced is in a non-normative section=E2=80=A6please add a ref to it = from a normative section. > BALAZS: It is referenced from the YANG module which is normative. You just added that reference, but not correctly: 1) the =E2=80=9Creference=E2=80=9D doesn=E2=80=99t follow the standard = format 2) the paragraph at the top of 3.2 doesn=E2=80=99t also list RFC 8525 > - S8.2: same comment as before re: floating the I-D refs to the = end=E2=80=A6 > BALAZS: The order of references is decided by Xml2Rfc. In the = draft-..xml it is the last. > - Appendix C: remove the unnecessary =E2=80=9CC.1=E2=80=9D section. > BALAZS: OK >=20 > Editorial Issues: >=20 > - Appendix B: > - s/For instance data/Instance data/ > BALAZS: Sorry, that would make the sentence incorrect. Do you mean it to be =E2=80=9CFor instance, data=E2=80=9D then? If = =E2=80=9Cinstance data=E2=80=9D is supposed to be read together, maybe = use a hyphen or quotes? > - =E2=80=9C...to avoid are listed.=E2=80=9D - listed where? = Section reference? > BALAZS: In the next list in the same chapter. Added "below". > - In P2, how is the 2nd sentence connected to the 1st? > BALAZS: Separated them into 2 paragraphs. Instance data can be = produced automatically or by some design activity. I was told by a = previous reviewer that I should provide these guidelines only for the = latter. However the guidelines are valid and important as proven by = experience. > - s/may lead to problems/may lead to the following problems:/? > BALAZS: OK > - Appendix C: > - Don=E2=80=99t put =E2=80=9CNon-Normative=E2=80=9D into the = Section title (move to 1st sentence of section)=20 > BALAZS: OK, changed (earlier it was requested to have it in the = title.) > - s/We present/This section presents/ > - s/use cases were YANG/use cases where YANG/ > - Actually, this whole sentence is meaningless > BALAZS: removed =20 >=20 > I gave up reviewing Section C at C.1.1, since it=E2=80=99s = non-normative. Honestly, I'd remove the entire section but, if you want = to keep it, I suggest reviewing it for issues=E2=80=A6 >=20 >=20 > Kent // shepherd >=20 >=20 >=20 >> On Mar 30, 2020, at 3:22 PM, Kent Watsen = wrote: >>=20 >>=20 >> As part of the Shepherd writeup, I read the entire draft and found = the following issues, which I=E2=80=99d like to see resolved before = progressing the document. Most of these issues should have been caught = be the WG and/or Editors... >>=20 >>=20 >> Logical Issues: >>=20 >> - S3, P8 defines MUSTs inside a SHOULD, a logical contradiction. > BALAZS: Changed to SHOULD >> - In S3, P8 (the P beginning w/ "The name of=E2=80=9D), text fails to = indicate what SHOULD be done if both =E2=80=9Crevision=E2=80=9D and = =E2=80=9Ctimestamp=E2=80=9D are present? > BALAZS: IMHO the preference depends on the use case, so a general = guidance cannot be given. >> - the syntax grammar used in S3, P8 doesn=E2=80=99t make sense - use = ABNF? > BALAZS:=20 Please fix the grammar. >> - In S3, P8: =E2=80=9Cthe semicolons and the decimal point, if = present, shall be replaced by underscores=E2=80=9D - why are they not = escaped? > BALAZS: This is a file name. Escaping in file names does not always = work (depending on the filesystem and tools used). This is more simple = and understandable No, this is a special case CLR and we never do this. I see this idea = has been in the document since -03, so it must=E2=80=99ve bee discussed, = can you point me to the discussion?=20 FWIW, my OS doesn=E2=80=99t even require escaping colons. BTW, = they=E2=80=99re =E2=80=9Ccolons=E2=80=9D (not semicolons). >> - Example 1 seems semantically invalid? e.g., = "ietf-netconf-monitoring=E2=80=9D is in "content-data" though not in = "modules-state=E2=80=9D. Also, "module-set-id=E2=80=9D is missing=20 > BALAZS: OK, added.=20 > The original example is valid, just illogical. It follows the YANG = modules defined in the content schema; it is allowed to have partial = data sets, so some modules may be omitted from modules-state. However = you are right this is illogical. > module-set-id does not need to be there. Partial data sets are = allowed. >> - It is unclear how the "inline-content-schema=E2=80=9D feature could = ever be used. I.e., there are no protocol-accessible nodes in the = module=E2=80=A6 > BALAZS: The system can declare in supported/not-supported in design = documentation. E.g. in UC2, Preloading Default Configuration the = designer preparing instance data, can decide to use or not use the = inline-content-schema based on this. When I make statements like this, please see it as an opportunity to = improve the document. In this case, please modify the = inline-content-schema=E2=80=99s =E2=80=9Cdescription=E2=80=9D statement = to indicate that the feature is never supported by a server, and that it = is intended to be enabled via out-of-band documentation. BTW, was this = discussed by the WG? >> - "leaf-list inline-module" is "min-elements 1=E2=80=9D and = "ordered-by user=E2=80=9D, but "leaf-list module=E2=80=9D has neither = (though it may be that ordering is irrelevant for simple-inline). > BALAZS: ordered-by removed. It doesn't really mean anything. In this = case there is no chance of the system reordering a list a = CLI/Netconf/Restconf client provided. > Min-elements is not needed for simplified-inline as the case will only = be selected if there is at least one "module" leaf-list entry. It is = needed for inline because otherwise the case could contain an " = inline-schema" anydata section and no "inline-module" entries. That = would not be usable. That may be true, but it=E2=80=99s equally true for the other leaf-list. = It's inconsistent. =20 BTW, is "choice content-schema-spec=E2=80=9D meant to be =E2=80=9Cmandator= y true=E2=80=9D? - because, currently, 'content-schema=E2=80=9D = doesn=E2=80=99t have to be specified according to the model=E2=80=A6 >> - "leaf-list inline-module=E2=80=9D has "ordered-by user=E2=80=9D, = what does that mean in the context of, e.g., UC1? > BALAZS: OK. Removed. In this case there is no chance of the system = reordering a list a CLI/Netconf/Restconf client provided. >> - P4 in the =E2=80=9Cdescription=E2=80=9D statement on line 134 in = the YANG module makes no sense (grammatically incorrect). Try breaking = into multiple sentences. > BALAZS: OK, Reworded. >> - The last two sentences of the =E2=80=9Cdescription=E2=80=9D = statement on line 207 in the YANG module contradict each other. > BALAZS: Why ? I don't see the contradiction. If you know a single = datastore specify it. If not omit the leaf. If the leaf is omitted, the = situation is unknown. I think the word =E2=80=9Cundefined=E2=80=9D is throwing me. Maybe = =E2=80=9Cunspecified=E2=80=9D would be better? >> Structural issues: >>=20 >> - Why isn=E2=80=99t the =E2=80=9CIntroduction=E2=80=9D Section = =E2=80=981=E2=80=99 as is common in RFCs? > BALAZS: OK, rearranged sections >> - the list in S3, P4 is missing symbols. > BALAZS: OK, added >> - the two lists in S3, P8 should be indented, or remove the leading = symbol > BALAZS: OK removed symbols >> - The list under "Metadata MUST include:=E2=80=9D is missing symbols. > BALAZS: OK, added >> - The list under "Metadata SHOULD include:=E2=80=9D is not indented. > BALAZS: OK, added I don=E2=80=99t see it. The way to do it is by adding a fake = =E2=80=9Clist=E2=80=9D, with missing symbols, to put the other list = inside... >> - 3.2, Example 1: move the comment under "content-data=E2=80=9D under = "modules-state=E2=80=9D. Replace said comment with a new comment that = says something like =E2=80=9CThis content-data only contains the data = identified by the =E2=80=98content-schema=E2=80=99 node, despite the = =E2=80=98module-state=E2=80=99 node indicating that the server = implements other modules > BALAZS: Removed comment, it is not needed Too bad, I found the comments helpful. Oh well. >> - The three examples should be
of their own (e.g., 3.2.x) > BALAZS: OK Better, but: - the new titles don=E2=80=99t match the UC titles - perhaps remove the =E2=80=9CUCx,=E2=80=9D prefix from the titles? = It looks weird in the ToC and they're not needed in the title since the first sentence relates the example to the UC already... - BTW, missing word =E2=80=9Cin=E2=80=9D: s/The example illustrates = UC[125] Section 1 /The example illustrates UC[125] in Section 1/ >> - The =E2=80=9Cinline=E2=80=9D choice node is generally confusing. I = can=E2=80=99t tell if it=E2=80=99s missing container called =E2=80=9Cinlin= e=E2=80=9D or if the two descendant nodes are poorly named. In either = case, it would be best to try to make it more readable. > BALAZS: Yes it is complicated. Some members of Netmod (I think Rob W.) = Asked for a full, powerful, flexible way of documenting the content = schema. In some cases it is needed. I=E2=80=99m not saying that it=E2=80=99s purpose is confusing, I=E2=80=99m= saying that its poorly named or missing a parent container. Try = looking at your examples with =E2=80=9Cfresh=E2=80=9D eyes. The node = names "inline-module=E2=80=9D and =E2=80=9Cinline-schema=E2=80=9D are = odd. It seems like =E2=80=9Cinline-module=E2=80=9D could be = =E2=80=9Canydata-schema=E2=80=9D and "inline-schema=E2=80=9D could be = =E2=80=9Cmodule-data=E2=80=9D? >> Editorial issues: >>=20 >> - s/The term Server is/The term =E2=80=9Cserver" is/ > BALAZS: OK >> - s/not available/unavailable/ > BALAZS: OK >> - s/Data is often needed already at/Data is often needed at/ > BALAZS: OK >> - s/needed by groups that do not have a live running server = available/needed when a live running server is unavailable/. > BALAZS: OK >> - s/ietf-yang- instance-data/"ietf-yang-instance-data=E2=80=9D/ > BALAZS: OK >> - remove the word =E2=80=9Cwe=E2=80=9D throughout: s/we/this = document/? > BALAZS: OK >> - remove P3=E2=80=99s forward-reference to S3, P9? > BALAZS: Sorry, I did not find this. Could you specify the text around = it Two formats are specified based on the XML and JSON YANG encodings. Later as other YANG encodings (e.g., CBOR) are defined, further instance data formats may be specified. Which is normatively described below. I=E2=80=99d either delete or move = this text down so it=E2=80=99s all together. FWIW, generally, your writing style involves a lot of prefacing, whereas = it=E2=80=99s somewhat more readable to have minimal text possible, = ideally most text being in the YANG module themselves. As an aside, I = also sometimes start a document with use-cases (to build support), but = then delete the use-cases after adoption. I find the prevalence of the = use-cases here detracting from readability. >> - s/is actually implemented/is implemented/ > BALAZS: OK >> - s/e.g., UC5 documenting diagnostic data/(e.g., UC5 [Section 2])/ > BALAZS: I prefer to use the short name of the use case instead of the = reference. IMHO it provides information instantly without a look-up. Is = that a problem? I think I mentioned this above already, but the titles are wrong. =20 Myself, I=E2=80=99d remove all the =E2=80=9CFigure=E2=80=9D postambles; = I never title my figures, just more to have to look at and maintain. In = the case, this is where the US titles are again incorrect... >> - s/and state data set/and state data/ > BALAZS: OK >> - s/Config=3Dtrue/configuration (=E2=80=9Cconfig true=E2=80=9D)/ > BALAZS: OK=20 >> - s/Config=3Dfalse/operational state data (=E2=80=9Cconfig false"/ > BALAZS: OK=20 >> - OLD: mandatory, min-elements, require-instance=3Dtrue, must and = when >> NEW: =E2=80=9Cmandatory", "min-elements", "require-instance true", = =E2=80=9C ust=E2=80=9D, and =E2=80=9Cwhen=E2=80=9D > BALAZS: OK >> - OLD: If revision information inside the data set is present >> NEW: If =E2=80=9Crevision" information is present inside the data = set: > BALAZS: OK >> - OLD: If the leaf "name" is present in the instance data header, = this MUST be used. >> NEW: If the leaf "name" is present in the instance data header, its = value should be used for the "instance-data-set-name=E2=80=9D. > BALAZS: OK=20 >> - s/items MAY also be used/items MAY be used/ > BALAZS: I would to keep "also" to indicated that they can be used as = additional possibilities. As you wish, but I try to remove filler words. >> - s/Metadata MUST include:/\nMetadata MUST include:/ > BALAZS: OK >> - s/Content schema specification/Content schema specification (i.e., = the "content-schema=E2=80=9D node)/ > BALAZS: OK >> - s/Do not include the content-schema,/Do not include the = "content-schema=E2=80=9D node=E2=80=9D;/ > BALAZS: OK >> - s/for "UC2 Preloading Data=E2=80=9D/for UC2 [Section 2],/ > BALAZS: I prefer to use the short name of the use case instead of the = reference. IMHO it provides information instantly without a look-up. Is = that a problem? Same comment used elsewhere. Firstly, the titles are incorrect. = Second, the presentation is rather informal, a more formalized version = might be: OLD: (e.g., for "UC2 Preloading Data" the=20 NEW: (e.g., for the "Preloading default configuration data" use-case = (UC2 in Section 1), the BTW, I think the period from the end of the previous sentence is meant = to follow the close-parentheses here... >> - S3.1.1 P2 doesn=E2=80=99t makes sense to me (esp. the verdt ref, = which likely should be removed or better explained) > BALAZS: This was explicitly requested by 2 members of the verdt team. = I tried to amend the text to make it more understandable, however IMHO = we should not try to explain the usage of revision label here. Also this = is just an example. OLD:=20 (e.g., revision labels which can be used as alternative to the = revision date[I-D.verdt-netmod-yang-module-versioning]).=20 NEW: (e.g., revision labels, described by = [I-D.verdt-netmod-yang-module-versioning] as alternative to the revision date).=20 BTW, immediately following, the text says "See Section 2.2.=E2=80=9D = This doesn=E2=80=99t mean Anything to me. Do you want to say something like =E2=80=9CAn example = of the =E2=80=9Cinline=E2=80=9D method is provided in 2.2.1=E2=80=9D? >> - s/The same-schema-as-file leaf/The "same-schema-as-file" leaf/ > BALAZS: OK >> - s/In Use Case 6/in UC6 [Section 2]/ > BALAZS: OK >> - S3.2 P1: s/examples use/example uses/ and s/for better = formatting//. =20 > BALAZS: OK. Originally I intended to use it in multiple places, but = it was unneeded. >> - s/is based on "UC1, Documenting Server Capabilities=E2=80=9D/exemplif= ies UC1 [Section 2]/ > BALAZS: Exemplifying is an uncommon word I find ugly. Is the current = text hard to understand or misleading?=20 > I changed it to " The following example illustrates ..." I hope that's = OK. I=E2=80=99m unsure if it=E2=80=99s possible for something to be =E2=80=9Cb= ased on=E2=80=9D or =E2=80=9Cillustrate=E2=80=9D a use case. Illustrate = is better though, maybe =E2=80=9Creflects=E2=80=9D or =E2=80=9Cepitomizes"= ? BTW, missing =E2=80=9Cin": s/illustrates UC1 Section 1/illustrates UC1 = in Section 1/ >> - s/(a shortened)/a/g > BALAZS: OK >> - For Ex1: s/uses the inline method/uses the =E2=80=9Cinline" method/ > BALAZS: OK >> - s/- Use case 1, Documenting server capabilities/Exemplifying UC1/ > BALAZS: Exemplifying is an uncommon word I find ugly. Is the current = text hard to understand or misleading? =20 > IMHO the string stating the name of the use case is more helpful then = a reference, that needs to be looked up. > I changed it to " The following example illustrates ..." I hope that's = OK. Same comment as above. >> - s/is based on "UC2, Preloading Default Configuration=E2=80=9D/exempli= fies UC2 [Section 2]/ > BALAZS: Exemplifying is an uncommon word I find ugly. Is the current = text hard to understand or misleading? =20 > I changed it to " The following example illustrates ..." I hope that's = OK. Same comment as above. >> - For Ex2: s/uses the inline method/uses the "simplified-inline" = method/ > BALAZS: OK >> - s/- Use case 2, Preloading access control data/Exemplifying UC2/ > BALAZS: Exemplifying is an uncommon word I find ugly. Is the current = text hard to understand or misleading? =20 > IMHO the string stating the name of the use case is more helpful then = a reference, that needs to be looked up Same comment as above. > > - s/is based on UC5 Storing diagnostics data/exemplifies UC5 = [Section 2]/ > BALAZS: OK. but I changed it to: exemplifies UC5, Storing diagnostics = data. IMHO the string stating the name of the use case is more helpful = then a reference, that needs to be looked up. > I changed it to " The following example illustrates "UC2, Preloading = ..." I hope that's OK. Same comment as above. >> - s/statistics about NETCONF/statistics about the NETCONF server/ > BAALZS: OK >> - s/- UC5 Storing diagnostics data/Exemplifying UC5/ > BALAZS: Exemplifying is an uncommon word I find ugly. Is the current = text hard to understand or misleading? =20 > IMHO the string stating the name of the use case is more helpful then = a reference, that needs to be looked up.> > I changed it to " The following example illustrates ..." I hope that's = OK. Same comment as above. >> Editorial issues inside the YANG module: >> - "description" statement on line 74: rephrase to make more sense. > BALAZS: Other people thought it was OK. Any specific suggestion? OLD: "A data structure to define a format for YANG instance data sets. Consists of meta-data about the instance data set and the real content-data.=E2=80=9D; NEW: "A data structure to define a format for YANG instance data. The majority of the YANG nodes provide meta-data about the instance data; the instance data itself is is contained only in the 'content-data=E2=80=99 node.=E2=80=9D; >> - :description" statement on line 92: so confusing. Just write = =E2=80=9CThe =E2=80=98revision' of the 'ietf-yang-instance-data=E2=80=99 = module used to encode this 'instance-data-set=E2=80=99.=E2=80=9D > BALAZS: OK >> - =E2=80=9Cdescription" statement on line 100: s/content = schema/schema (i.e., YANG modules)/? > BALAZS: The term "content-schema" is defined in the terminology = section. It defines =20 Fine, but please add "(i.e., YANG modules)=E2=80=9D so people will have = better clue=20 >> - =E2=80=9Ctype string=E2=80=9D statement on lines 109 and 131 are = missing a =E2=80=9Cpattern" statement. > BALAZS: OK, Defined it as a typedef. Good! But I=E2=80=99m unsure about the pattern statement (esp. "pattern = '.|..|[^xX].*|.[^mM].*|..[^lL].*=E2=80=99;=E2=80=9D)=E2=80=A6did you = copy/paste it from somewhere? >> - =E2=80=9Cdescription" statement on line 110: should this be mostly = the same as the description statement of line 134, sans the bit = regarding features, deviations, etc.? > BALAZS: Paragraphs 2,3 are the same. Paragraphs 1, 4,5,6 are really = different. Inline is not just the same list with features, it involves = one more level of indirection in defining the content schema. If you say so, =20 >> - line 152: s/ietf-yang-library@2019-01-04/revision "2019-01-04=E2=80=9D= of the "ietf-yang-library=E2=80=9D module/? > BALAZS: OK >> - P2 in the =E2=80=9Cdescription" statements on lines 220 and 249: = s/For instance data sets/Instance data sets/ > BALAZS: The sentence will not make sense unless I change the comma at = the end of sentence to a colon. Hmmm, that didn=E2=80=99t come out very well. This is the same issue as = before, whereby =E2=80=9CFor instance data...=E2=80=9D looks like it = should be read =E2=80=9CFor instance, data=E2=80=A6=E2=80=9D. Maybe you = can find a better way to express this? >> - =E2=80=9Cdescription" statement on line 256: s/Modules/modules/ and = s/content-schema-spec/=E2=80=98content-schema=E2=80=99/ > BALAZS: OK >>=20 >>=20 >> YANG module formatting issues: >>=20 >> - On line 19: s/ reference/reference/ > BALAZS: OK >> - On line 21: s/}/ }/ > BALAZS: OK >> - On line 235: s/pattern/ pattern/=20 > BALAZS: OK >>=20 PS: this command produces output: pyang -f yang --keep-comments = --yang-line-length 69 ietf-yang-instance-data@2020-04-02.yang > tmp; = diff ietf-yang-instance-data@2020-04-02.yang tmp New: missing space: s/artwork = folding[I-D.ietf-netmod-artwork-folding]/artwork folding = [I-D.ietf-netmod-artwork-folding]/ Kent // shepherd --Apple-Mail=_C7311CBF-92D8-485A-A1F1-2054ED4A1CA2 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/html; charset=utf-8 Hi = Balazs,


On Apr 8, 2020, at 8:06 AM, = Bal=C3=A1zs Lengyel <balazs.lengyel@ericsson.com> wrote:

Hello = Kent,
Thanks for the review. See answers below.
I tried to address all you comments, sorry if I missed = something.
I updated the draft and uploaded a -11 = version. Please check/advance it.

One = question I could not settle: XML2RFC does not accept
=      <?rfc = include=3D'reference.I-D.netmod-yang-module-versioning'?> =      
Only
=      <?rfc = include=3D'reference.I-D.verdt-netmod-yang-module-versioning'?> =      
Why ? Please help.

Because = it=E2=80=99s a working group document now and so uses the =E2=80=9Cietf=E2= =80=9D prefix.  Try this:

  =    <?rfc = include=3D'reference.I-D.ietf-netmod-yang-module-versioning'?> =  



Structural Issues:

- S5 contains an mix of important and unimportant = information.   I think that the most important thing to state = that the module defines an offline format that MAY contain security = sensitive information, and thus safe handling is advised.  Maybe = also say something about because the YANG module only defines a = =E2=80=9Cstructure=E2=80=9D,  the Security Considerations doesn=E2=80= =99t follow the template specified in https://tools.ietf.org/html/rfc8407#section-3.7.1). =  For instance: s/is designed as a wrapper specifying a format and a = metadata header for YANG instance data defined by the = content-schema/specifies an offline format/
BALAZS: Most = of text was required to be put there by earlier reviewers (Mostly = Juergen and Acee Lindem) and sent to the mailing list.
I = added that we do not follow the security template for YANG models.

Please = add the reference to https://tools.ietf.org/html/rfc8407#section-3.7.1 per = above.


 - S6.1. = the full registration is not inside the <figure>.  (How could = happen?)
BALAZS: Corrected
 - S8.1: = I-D.ietf-netmod-yang-data-ext should be listed last, as the number it = will be the greater than any other...
BALAZS: The order of = references is decided by Xml2Rfc. In the draft-..xml it is the last.
 - S8.1: RFC8340 is Informative
BALAZS: = OK
 - S8.1: agreed that RFC8525 is Normative, but = the only place it it referenced is in a non-normative section=E2=80=A6plea= se add a ref to it from a normative section.
BALAZS: It is = referenced from the YANG module which is normative.

You = just added that reference, but not correctly:
  1) the = =E2=80=9Creference=E2=80=9D doesn=E2=80=99t follow the standard = format
  2) the paragraph at the top of 3.2 doesn=E2=80=99t= also list RFC 8525


 - S8.2: same comment as before re: floating the I-D = refs to the end=E2=80=A6
BALAZS: The order of references = is decided by Xml2Rfc. In the draft-..xml it is the last.
=  - Appendix C: remove the unnecessary =E2=80=9CC.1=E2=80=9D = section.
BALAZS: OK

Editorial = Issues:

 - Appendix B:
=     - s/For instance data/Instance = data/
BALAZS: Sorry, that would make the sentence = incorrect.

Do you mean it to be =E2=80=9CFor instance, = data=E2=80=9D then?   If =E2=80=9Cinstance data=E2=80=9D is = supposed to be read together, maybe use a hyphen or quotes?


=     - =E2=80=9C...to avoid are listed.=E2=80=9D - = listed where?  Section reference?
BALAZS: In the next = list in the same chapter. Added "below".
=     - In P2, how is the 2nd sentence connected to = the 1st?
BALAZS: Separated them into 2 paragraphs. = Instance data can be produced automatically or by some design activity. = I was told by a previous reviewer that I should provide these guidelines = only for the latter. However the guidelines are valid and important as = proven by experience.
    - s/may = lead to problems/may lead to the following problems:/?
BALAZS: OK
 - Appendix C:
=      - Don=E2=80=99t put =E2=80=9CNon-Normative=E2= =80=9D into the Section title (move to 1st sentence of section)
BALAZS: OK, changed (earlier it was requested to have it in = the title.)
     - s/We = present/This section presents/
=      - s/use cases were YANG/use cases where = YANG/
     - Actually, this = whole sentence is meaningless
BALAZS: removed  

I gave up reviewing Section C at C.1.1, since = it=E2=80=99s non-normative.  Honestly, I'd remove the entire = section but, if you want to keep it, I suggest reviewing it for = issues=E2=80=A6


Kent // = shepherd



On Mar 30, 2020, at 3:22 = PM, Kent Watsen <kent+ietf@watsen.net> wrote:


As part of the Shepherd writeup, I read the = entire draft and found the following issues, which I=E2=80=99d like to = see resolved before progressing the document.  Most of these issues = should have been caught be the WG and/or Editors...


Logical Issues:

= - S3, P8 defines MUSTs inside a SHOULD, a logical contradiction.
BALAZS: Changed to SHOULD
- In S3, P8 (the P = beginning w/ "The name of=E2=80=9D), text fails to indicate what SHOULD = be done if both =E2=80=9Crevision=E2=80=9D and =E2=80=9Ctimestamp=E2=80=9D= are present?
BALAZS: IMHO the preference = depends on the use case, so a general guidance cannot be given.
- the syntax grammar = used in S3, P8 doesn=E2=80=99t make sense - use ABNF?
BALAZS:

Please = fix the grammar.




- In S3, P8: =E2=80=9Cthe semicolons and the = decimal point, if present, shall be replaced by underscores=E2=80=9D - = why are they not escaped?
BALAZS: This is a = file name. Escaping in file names does not always work (depending on the = filesystem and tools used). This is more simple and understandable

No, = this is a special case CLR and we never do this.  I see this idea = has been in the document since -03, so it must=E2=80=99ve bee discussed, = can you point me to the discussion? 

FWIW, my OS doesn=E2=80=99t even require escaping = colons.  BTW, they=E2=80=99re =E2=80=9Ccolons=E2=80=9D (not = semicolons).


- Example 1 seems semantically invalid? =  e.g., "ietf-netconf-monitoring=E2=80=9D is in "content-data" = though not in "modules-state=E2=80=9D.  Also, "module-set-id=E2=80=9D= is missing
BALAZS: OK, added.
The original example is valid, just illogical. It follows the = YANG modules defined in the content schema; it is allowed to have = partial data sets, so some modules may be omitted from modules-state. = However you are right this is illogical.
module-set-id = does not need to be there. Partial data sets are allowed.
- It is unclear how the = "inline-content-schema=E2=80=9D feature could ever be used.  I.e., = there are no protocol-accessible nodes in the module=E2=80=A6
BALAZS: The system can declare in = supported/not-supported in design documentation. E.g. in UC2, Preloading = Default Configuration the designer preparing instance data, can decide = to use or not use the inline-content-schema based on this.

When = I make statements like this, please see it as an opportunity to improve = the document.  In this case, please modify the = inline-content-schema=E2=80=99s =E2=80=9Cdescription=E2=80=9D statement = to indicate that the feature is never supported by a server, and that it = is intended to be enabled via out-of-band documentation.  BTW, was = this discussed by the WG?


- "leaf-list = inline-module" is "min-elements 1=E2=80=9D and "ordered-by user=E2=80=9D, = but "leaf-list module=E2=80=9D has neither (though it may be that = ordering is irrelevant for simple-inline).
BALAZS: ordered-by  removed. It doesn't = really mean anything. In this case there is no chance of the system = reordering a list a CLI/Netconf/Restconf client provided.
Min-elements is not needed for simplified-inline as the case = will only be selected if there is at least one "module" leaf-list entry. = It is needed for inline because otherwise the case could contain an " = inline-schema" anydata section and no "inline-module" entries. That = would not be usable.

That may be true, but it=E2=80=99s equally true = for the other leaf-list.  It's inconsistent.  

BTW, is "choice content-schema-spec=E2=80=9D meant = to be =E2=80=9Cmandatory true=E2=80=9D?  - because, currently, = 'content-schema=E2=80=9D doesn=E2=80=99t have to be specified according = to the model=E2=80=A6


- "leaf-list = inline-module=E2=80=9D has "ordered-by user=E2=80=9D, what does that = mean in the context of, e.g., UC1?
BALAZS: = OK. Removed. In this case there is no chance of the system reordering a = list a CLI/Netconf/Restconf client = provided.
- P4 in the =E2=80=9Cdescription=E2=80=9D statement on line = 134 in the YANG module makes no sense (grammatically incorrect). =  Try breaking into multiple = sentences.
BALAZS: OK, Reworded.
- The last two = sentences of the =E2=80=9Cdescription=E2=80=9D statement on line 207 in = the YANG module contradict each other.
BALAZS: = Why ? I don't see the contradiction. If you know a single datastore = specify it. If not omit the leaf. If the leaf is omitted, the situation = is unknown.

I think the word =E2=80=9Cundefined=E2=80=9D is = throwing me.  Maybe =E2=80=9Cunspecified=E2=80=9D would be = better?


Structural issues:

- Why isn=E2=80=99t the =E2=80=9CIntroduction=E2= =80=9D Section =E2=80=981=E2=80=99 as is common in RFCs?
BALAZS: OK, rearranged sections
- the list in S3, P4 is = missing symbols.
BALAZS: OK, added
- the two lists in S3, = P8 should be indented, or remove the leading symbol
BALAZS: OK removed symbols
- The list under = "Metadata MUST include:=E2=80=9D is missing symbols.
BALAZS: OK, added
- The list under "Metadata SHOULD include:=E2=80= =9D is not indented.
BALAZS: OK, added

I = don=E2=80=99t see it.  The way to do it is by adding a fake = =E2=80=9Clist=E2=80=9D, with missing symbols, to put the other list = inside...


- 3.2, Example 1: move the comment under = "content-data=E2=80=9D under "modules-state=E2=80=9D.  Replace said = comment with a new comment that says something like =E2=80=9CThis = content-data only contains the data identified by the = =E2=80=98content-schema=E2=80=99 node, despite the =E2=80=98module-state=E2= =80=99 node indicating that the server implements other modules
BALAZS: Removed comment, it is not needed

Too = bad, I found the comments helpful.  Oh well.


- The = three examples should be <section> of their own (e.g., 3.2.x)
BALAZS: OK

Better,= but:
  - the new titles don=E2=80=99t match the UC = titles
  - perhaps remove the =E2=80=9CUCx,=E2=80=9D = prefix from the titles?  It looks weird in
    = the ToC and they're not needed in the title since the first = sentence
    relates the example to the UC = already...
  - BTW, missing word =E2=80=9Cin=E2=80=9D: =  s/The example illustrates UC[125] Section = 1
    /The example illustrates UC[125] in = Section 1/




- The =E2=80=9Cinline=E2=80=9D choice node is = generally confusing.  I can=E2=80=99t tell if it=E2=80=99s missing = container called =E2=80=9Cinline=E2=80=9D or if the two descendant nodes = are poorly named.  In either case, it would be best to try to make = it more readable.
BALAZS: Yes it is = complicated. Some members of Netmod (I think Rob W.) Asked for a full, = powerful, flexible way of documenting the content schema. In some cases = it is needed.

I=E2=80=99m not saying that it=E2=80=99s purpose = is confusing, I=E2=80=99m saying that its poorly named or missing a = parent container.  Try looking at your examples with =E2=80=9Cfresh=E2= =80=9D eyes.  The node names "inline-module=E2=80=9D and = =E2=80=9Cinline-schema=E2=80=9D are odd.  It seems like = =E2=80=9Cinline-module=E2=80=9D could be =E2=80=9Canydata-schema=E2=80=9D = and "inline-schema=E2=80=9D could be =E2=80=9Cmodule-data=E2=80=9D?
<= div>


Editorial issues:

- s/The term Server is/The term =E2=80=9Cserver= " is/
BALAZS: OK
- s/not available/unavailable/
BALAZS: OK
- s/Data is often needed already at/Data is often needed = at/
BALAZS: OK
- s/needed by groups that do not have a live = running server available/needed when a live running server is = unavailable/.
BALAZS: OK
- s/ietf-yang- = instance-data/"ietf-yang-instance-data=E2=80=9D/
BALAZS: OK
- remove the word =E2=80=9Cwe=E2=80=9D throughout: = s/we/this document/?
BALAZS: OK
- remove P3=E2=80=99s = forward-reference to S3, P9?
BALAZS: =  Sorry, I did not find this. Could you specify the text around = it


   Two =
formats are specified based on the XML and JSON YANG encodings.
   Later as other YANG encodings (e.g., CBOR) are defined, further
   instance data formats may be specified.

Which is = normatively described below.  I=E2=80=99d either delete or move = this text down so it=E2=80=99s all together.

FWIW, generally, your writing style involves a lot = of prefacing, whereas it=E2=80=99s somewhat more readable to have = minimal text possible, ideally most text being in the YANG module = themselves.  As an aside, I also sometimes start a document with = use-cases (to build support), but then delete the use-cases after = adoption.  I find the prevalence of the use-cases here detracting = from readability.



- s/is actually implemented/is implemented/
BALAZS: OK
- s/e.g., UC5 documenting diagnostic data/(e.g., UC5 = [Section 2])/
BALAZS: I prefer to use the = short name of the use case instead of the reference. IMHO it provides = information instantly without a look-up. Is that a problem?

I = think I mentioned this above already, but the titles are wrong. =  

Myself, I=E2=80=99d remove = all the =E2=80=9CFigure=E2=80=9D postambles; I never title my figures, = just more to have to look at and maintain.  In the case, this is = where the US titles are again incorrect...



- s/and state data set/and state data/
BALAZS: OK
- s/Config=3Dtrue/configuration (=E2=80=9Cconfig = true=E2=80=9D)/
BALAZS: OK
- = s/Config=3Dfalse/operational state data (=E2=80=9Cconfig false"/
BALAZS: OK
- OLD: mandatory, min-elements, = require-instance=3Dtrue, must and when
  NEW: = =E2=80=9Cmandatory", "min-elements", "require-instance true", =E2=80=9C = ust=E2=80=9D, and =E2=80=9Cwhen=E2=80=9D
BALAZS: OK
- OLD: If revision information inside the data set is = present
  NEW: If =E2=80=9Crevision" = information is present inside the data set:
BALAZS: OK
- OLD: If the leaf "name" is present in the instance data = header, this MUST be used.
  NEW: If the leaf = "name" is present in the instance data header, its value should be used = for the "instance-data-set-name=E2=80=9D.
BALAZS: OK
- s/items MAY also be used/items MAY be = used/
BALAZS: I would to keep "also" to = indicated that they can be used as additional possibilities.

As = you wish, but I try to remove filler words.

- s/Metadata MUST = include:/\nMetadata MUST include:/
BALAZS: = OK
- s/Content = schema specification/Content schema specification (i.e., the = "content-schema=E2=80=9D node)/
BALAZS: OK
- s/Do not include the = content-schema,/Do not include the "content-schema=E2=80=9D node=E2=80=9D;= /
BALAZS: OK
- s/for "UC2 Preloading Data=E2=80=9D/for UC2 = [Section 2],/
BALAZS: I prefer to use the = short name of the use case instead of the reference. IMHO it provides = information instantly without a look-up. Is that a problem?

Same = comment used elsewhere.  Firstly, the titles are incorrect. =  Second, the presentation is rather informal, a more formalized = version might be:
OLD: (e.g., for "UC2 Preloading Data" = the 
NEW: (e.g., for the "Preloading default = configuration data" use-case (UC2 in Section 1), the

BTW, I think the period from the end of the = previous sentence is meant to follow the close-parentheses = here...



- S3.1.1 P2 doesn=E2=80=99= t makes sense to me (esp. the verdt ref, which likely should be removed = or better explained)
BALAZS: This was = explicitly requested by 2 members of the verdt team. I tried to amend = the text to make it more understandable, however IMHO we should not try = to explain the usage of revision label here. Also this is just an = example.

OLD: 
   (e.g., revision labels which can be used as = alternative to the revision
  =  date[I-D.verdt-netmod-yang-module-versioning]). 

NEW:
    (e.g., revision labels, = described by [I-D.verdt-netmod-yang-module-versioning]
    as alternative to the revision = date). 

BTW, immediately = following, the text says "See Section 2.2.=E2=80=9D   This = doesn=E2=80=99t mean
Anything to me.  Do you want to say = something like =E2=80=9CAn example of the =E2=80=9Cinline=E2=80=9D = method is provided in 2.2.1=E2=80=9D?


- s/The = same-schema-as-file leaf/The "same-schema-as-file" leaf/
BALAZS: OK
- s/In Use Case 6/in UC6 [Section 2]/
BALAZS: OK
- S3.2 P1: s/examples use/example uses/ and s/for better = formatting//.   
BALAZS: OK. = Originally  I intended to use it in multiple places, but it was = unneeded.
- s/is = based on "UC1, Documenting Server Capabilities=E2=80=9D/exemplifies UC1 = [Section 2]/
BALAZS: Exemplifying is an = uncommon word I find ugly. Is the current text hard to understand or = misleading? 
I changed it to " The = following example illustrates ..." I hope that's OK.

I=E2=80=99m unsure if it=E2=80=99s possible = for something to be =E2=80=9Cbased on=E2=80=9D or =E2=80=9Cillustrate=E2=80= =9D a use case.  Illustrate is better though, maybe =E2=80=9Creflects= =E2=80=9D or =E2=80=9Cepitomizes"?

BTW, missing =E2=80=9Cin": =  s/illustrates UC1 Section 1/illustrates UC1 in Section = 1/



- s/(a = shortened)/a/g
BALAZS: OK
- For Ex1: s/uses the = inline method/uses the =E2=80=9Cinline" method/
BALAZS: OK
- s/- Use case 1, Documenting server = capabilities/Exemplifying UC1/
BALAZS: = Exemplifying is an uncommon word I find ugly. Is the current text hard = to understand or misleading?  
IMHO the string = stating  the name of the use case is more helpful then a reference, = that needs to be looked up.
I changed it to " The = following example illustrates ..." I hope that's OK.

Same = comment as above.


- s/is based on "UC2, = Preloading Default Configuration=E2=80=9D/exemplifies UC2 [Section = 2]/
BALAZS: Exemplifying is an uncommon word = I find ugly. Is the current text hard to understand or misleading? =  
I changed it to " The following example illustrates = ..." I hope that's OK.

Same comment as above.


 - For Ex2: s/uses the inline method/uses = the "simplified-inline" method/
BALAZS: OK
- s/- Use case 2, = Preloading access control data/Exemplifying UC2/
BALAZS: Exemplifying is an uncommon word I find = ugly. Is the current text hard to understand or misleading?  
IMHO the string stating  the name of the use case is = more helpful then a reference, that needs to be looked up

Same = comment as above.


>  - = s/is based on UC5 Storing diagnostics data/exemplifies UC5 [Section = 2]/
BALAZS: OK. but I changed it to: exemplifies UC5, = Storing diagnostics data. IMHO the string stating  the name of the = use case is more helpful then a reference, that needs to be looked = up.
I changed it to " The following example illustrates = "UC2, Preloading ..." I hope that's OK.

Same = comment as above.


 - s/statistics about NETCONF/statistics = about the NETCONF server/
BAALZS: OK
- s/- UC5 Storing = diagnostics data/Exemplifying UC5/
BALAZS: = Exemplifying is an uncommon word I find ugly. Is the current text hard = to understand or misleading?  
IMHO the string = stating  the name of the use case is more helpful then a reference, = that needs to be looked up.>
I changed it to " The = following example illustrates ..." I hope that's OK.

Same = comment as above.


Editorial issues inside the YANG module:
- "description" statement on line 74: rephrase to make more = sense.
BALAZS: Other people thought it was = OK. Any specific suggestion?

OLD:
      "A data = structure to define a format for
      =  YANG instance data sets. Consists of meta-data about
       the instance data set and the real = content-data.=E2=80=9D;

NEW:
      "A data = structure to define a format for
      =  YANG instance data.   The majority of the YANG nodes = provide
       meta-data about the = instance data; the instance data itself is
    =    is contained only in the 'content-data=E2=80=99 = node.=E2=80=9D;



- = :description" statement on line 92: so confusing.  Just write = =E2=80=9CThe =E2=80=98revision' of the 'ietf-yang-instance-data=E2=80=99 = module used to encode this 'instance-data-set=E2=80=99.=E2=80=9D
BALAZS: OK
- =E2=80=9Cdescription" statement on line 100: s/content = schema/schema (i.e., YANG modules)/?
BALAZS: = The term "content-schema" is defined in the terminology section. =  It defines  

Fine, but please add "(i.e., YANG modules)=E2=80=9D = so people will have better clue 

- =E2=80=9Ctype string=E2=80=9D statement on = lines 109 and 131 are missing a =E2=80=9Cpattern" statement.
BALAZS: OK, Defined it as a typedef.

Good! =  But I=E2=80=99m unsure about the pattern statement (esp. "pattern = '.|..|[^xX].*|.[^mM].*|..[^lL].*=E2=80=99;=E2=80=9D)=E2=80=A6did you = copy/paste it from somewhere?

- =E2=80=9Cdescription" statement on line 110: = should this be mostly the same as the description statement of line 134, = sans the bit regarding features, deviations, etc.?
BALAZS: Paragraphs 2,3 are the same. Paragraphs = 1, 4,5,6 are really different. Inline is not just the same list with = features, it involves one more level of indirection in defining the = content schema.

If you = say so,

 
- line 152: = s/ietf-yang-library@2019-01-04/revision "2019-01-04=E2=80=9D of the = "ietf-yang-library=E2=80=9D module/?
BALAZS: = OK
- P2 in the = =E2=80=9Cdescription" statements on lines 220 and 249: s/For instance = data sets/Instance data sets/
BALAZS: The = sentence will not make sense unless I change the comma at the end of = sentence to a colon.

Hmmm, that didn=E2=80=99t come out very well. =  This is the same issue as before, whereby =E2=80=9CFor instance = data...=E2=80=9D looks like it should be read =E2=80=9CFor instance, = data=E2=80=A6=E2=80=9D.  Maybe you can find a better way to express = this?

- = =E2=80=9Cdescription" statement on line 256: s/Modules/modules/ and = s/content-schema-spec/=E2=80=98content-schema=E2=80=99/
BALAZS: OK


YANG module formatting = issues:

- On line 19: s/ =  reference/reference/
BALAZS: OK
- On line 21: s/}/ =  }/
BALAZS: OK
- On line 235: s/pattern/  pattern/
BALAZS: OK



PS: this command = produces output:  pyang -f yang --keep-comments = --yang-line-length 69 ietf-yang-instance-data@2020-04-02.yang > tmp; diff ietf-yang-instance-data@2020-04-02.yang = tmp



New: missing space: = s/artwork folding[I-D.ietf-netmod-artwork-folding]/artwork folding = [I-D.ietf-netmod-artwork-folding]/



Kent = // shepherd



= --Apple-Mail=_C7311CBF-92D8-485A-A1F1-2054ED4A1CA2-- From nobody Fri Apr 10 12:59:30 2020 Return-Path: <0100017165acf391-5e3d197d-7911-4d7f-87d4-0ee95fcee855-000000@amazonses.watsen.net> X-Original-To: netmod@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: netmod@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 47FBE3A0B3A; Fri, 10 Apr 2020 12:59:28 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.898 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.898 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_NONE=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (1024-bit key) header.d=amazonses.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 6j3_8ugJG6qj; Fri, 10 Apr 2020 12:59:27 -0700 (PDT) Received: from a48-92.smtp-out.amazonses.com (a48-92.smtp-out.amazonses.com [54.240.48.92]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 2561E3A0B39; Fri, 10 Apr 2020 12:59:26 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; q=dns/txt; c=relaxed/simple; s=224i4yxa5dv7c2xz3womw6peuasteono; d=amazonses.com; t=1586548765; h=From:Content-Type:Content-Transfer-Encoding:Mime-Version:Subject:Message-Id:Date:Cc:To:Feedback-ID; bh=hX6fDPfA9HpbHrqaD1GtB4oIWCQAYo7nGmAkkk/Ejm0=; b=FEn5jBu01/BR6Y6+0vORZdORlcHpBwL00tIT9joMh9i2btfgDk1oYpDo2O256HTa XtsVRcrzgJkJs9XD8kqEPbXAGTfcwMXkntapAdCmpTChdEjDiqd6RdGjiQJlasdpRAD sG0biNgjpRDXvlUAjgOpdYAl8MbZPLkIc/VGr/8A= From: Kent Watsen Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 12.4 \(3445.104.11\)) Message-ID: <0100017165acf391-5e3d197d-7911-4d7f-87d4-0ee95fcee855-000000@email.amazonses.com> Date: Fri, 10 Apr 2020 19:59:25 +0000 Cc: draft-ietf-netmod-rfc6991-bis@ietf.org To: "netmod@ietf.org" X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.3445.104.11) X-SES-Outgoing: 2020.04.10-54.240.48.92 Feedback-ID: 1.us-east-1.DKmIRZFhhsBhtmFMNikgwZUWVrODEw9qVcPhqJEI2DA=:AmazonSES Archived-At: Subject: [netmod] Add "node-instance-identifier" to rfc6991-bis? X-BeenThere: netmod@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: NETMOD WG list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 10 Apr 2020 19:59:29 -0000 draft-ietf-netconf-notification-capabilities imports = "ietf-netconf-acm=E2=80=9D solely to access = "nacm:node-instance-identifier=E2=80=9D. This typedef seems generally = useful, would it make sense to move to rrc6991-bis? 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X-BeenThere: netmod@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: NETMOD WG list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 10 Apr 2020 20:04:42 -0000 The definition is already in draft-ietf-netmod-rfc6991-bis-02.txt but also see the DISCUSS items related to it. /js On Fri, Apr 10, 2020 at 07:59:25PM +0000, Kent Watsen wrote: > > draft-ietf-netconf-notification-capabilities imports "ietf-netconf-acm†solely to access "nacm:node-instance-identifierâ€. This typedef seems generally useful, would it make sense to move to rrc6991-bis? > > PS: the "token†type add discussion from before never completed (again, modeled after xsd:token) > > Kent // contributor > -- Juergen Schoenwaelder Jacobs University Bremen gGmbH Phone: +49 421 200 3587 Campus Ring 1 | 28759 Bremen | Germany Fax: +49 421 200 3103 From nobody Fri Apr 10 13:49:55 2020 Return-Path: <0100017165dadd72-00249a2b-8ea8-4d74-88d0-bf0579e817ae-000000@amazonses.watsen.net> X-Original-To: netmod@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: netmod@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id CA26A3A0D18; Fri, 10 Apr 2020 13:49:53 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.898 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.898 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_NONE=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (1024-bit key) header.d=amazonses.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id K1knvrDbXotr; Fri, 10 Apr 2020 13:49:52 -0700 (PDT) Received: from a8-88.smtp-out.amazonses.com (a8-88.smtp-out.amazonses.com [54.240.8.88]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 4A2113A0DD8; Fri, 10 Apr 2020 13:49:36 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; q=dns/txt; c=relaxed/simple; s=224i4yxa5dv7c2xz3womw6peuasteono; d=amazonses.com; t=1586551774; h=Content-Type:Mime-Version:Subject:From:In-Reply-To:Date:Cc:Content-Transfer-Encoding:Message-Id:References:To:Feedback-ID; bh=BNS4gUw50qeX+iVHBdim+r+1PNQsEld7U4aL1sxxaHw=; b=jQmJOI2MpQKe1i8y7ZJH1T3Z5N/bY6vQI/nDdWd/rkz7hRo4PhvnaVUOXIgjoRux V19t4ULVpmyKp4iNc1f/CXD+FGZ5acdra+mxv/0KCaSHMJZ4PmagD3GUBqp09MsyNwh 1xPTBl2kEboXH3B859juWVBGWBn7CzzNaTH7jo/E= Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 12.4 \(3445.104.11\)) From: Kent Watsen In-Reply-To: <20200410200434.xisbzr5cuxzhmkpi@anna.jacobs.jacobs-university.de> Date: Fri, 10 Apr 2020 20:49:34 +0000 Cc: "netmod@ietf.org" , draft-ietf-netmod-rfc6991-bis@ietf.org Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Message-ID: <0100017165dadd72-00249a2b-8ea8-4d74-88d0-bf0579e817ae-000000@email.amazonses.com> References: <0100017165acf391-5e3d197d-7911-4d7f-87d4-0ee95fcee855-000000@email.amazonses.com> <20200410200434.xisbzr5cuxzhmkpi@anna.jacobs.jacobs-university.de> To: Juergen Schoenwaelder X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.3445.104.11) X-SES-Outgoing: 2020.04.10-54.240.8.88 Feedback-ID: 1.us-east-1.DKmIRZFhhsBhtmFMNikgwZUWVrODEw9qVcPhqJEI2DA=:AmazonSES Archived-At: Subject: Re: [netmod] Add "node-instance-identifier" to rfc6991-bis? X-BeenThere: netmod@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: NETMOD WG list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 10 Apr 2020 20:49:54 -0000 Hi Juergen, > The definition is already in draft-ietf-netmod-rfc6991-bis-02.txt My bad (good to see it=E2=80=99s in there already) > but also see the DISCUSS items related to it. True, but there is a related DISCUSS under "typedef xpath1.0=E2=80=9D... >> PS: the "token=E2=80=9D type add discussion from before never = completed (again, modeled after xsd:token) What about this? 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Sat, 11 Apr 2020 06:49:40 +0000 Date: Sat, 11 Apr 2020 08:49:39 +0200 From: Juergen Schoenwaelder To: Kent Watsen Cc: "netmod@ietf.org" , draft-ietf-netmod-rfc6991-bis@ietf.org Message-ID: <20200411064939.3lk5yl3gvac6zxlx@anna.jacobs.jacobs-university.de> Reply-To: Juergen Schoenwaelder Mail-Followup-To: Kent Watsen , "netmod@ietf.org" , draft-ietf-netmod-rfc6991-bis@ietf.org References: <0100017165acf391-5e3d197d-7911-4d7f-87d4-0ee95fcee855-000000@email.amazonses.com> <20200410200434.xisbzr5cuxzhmkpi@anna.jacobs.jacobs-university.de> <0100017165dadd72-00249a2b-8ea8-4d74-88d0-bf0579e817ae-000000@email.amazonses.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit In-Reply-To: <0100017165dadd72-00249a2b-8ea8-4d74-88d0-bf0579e817ae-000000@email.amazonses.com> X-ClientProxiedBy: AM0PR04CA0023.eurprd04.prod.outlook.com (2603:10a6:208:122::36) To AM0P190MB0707.EURP190.PROD.OUTLOOK.COM (2603:10a6:208:196::24) MIME-Version: 1.0 X-MS-Exchange-MessageSentRepresentingType: 1 Received: from localhost (2001:638:709:5::7) by AM0PR04CA0023.eurprd04.prod.outlook.com (2603:10a6:208:122::36) with Microsoft SMTP Server (version=TLS1_2, cipher=TLS_ECDHE_RSA_WITH_AES_256_GCM_SHA384) id 15.20.2900.15 via Frontend Transport; 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X-BeenThere: netmod@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: NETMOD WG list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sat, 11 Apr 2020 06:49:47 -0000 On Fri, Apr 10, 2020 at 08:49:34PM +0000, Kent Watsen wrote: > Hi Juergen, > > > > The definition is already in draft-ietf-netmod-rfc6991-bis-02.txt > > My bad (good to see it’s in there already) > > > > but also see the DISCUSS items related to it. > > True, but there is a related DISCUSS under "typedef xpath1.0â€... > I know. > >> PS: the "token†type add discussion from before never completed (again, modeled after xsd:token) > > What about this? > What would this type be good for? Any models already using something like this? /js -- Juergen Schoenwaelder Jacobs University Bremen gGmbH Phone: +49 421 200 3587 Campus Ring 1 | 28759 Bremen | Germany Fax: +49 421 200 3103 From nobody Sun Apr 12 10:23:19 2020 Return-Path: X-Original-To: netmod@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: netmod@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id CA5263A1092 for ; Sun, 12 Apr 2020 10:23:16 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.898 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.898 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=ackl-io.20150623.gappssmtp.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id sxZnKLgcOBk7 for ; Sun, 12 Apr 2020 10:23:14 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail-wr1-x42b.google.com (mail-wr1-x42b.google.com [IPv6:2a00:1450:4864:20::42b]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 6DB663A1090 for ; Sun, 12 Apr 2020 10:23:14 -0700 (PDT) Received: by mail-wr1-x42b.google.com with SMTP id j2so8004174wrs.9 for ; Sun, 12 Apr 2020 10:23:14 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=ackl-io.20150623.gappssmtp.com; s=20150623; h=mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date:message-id:subject:to :cc; bh=ZJNv4u4Z66dnbrnlsrhUOXnaVIzy7JF0j4FZlB9Mcx8=; b=X8+cqT1qXYeHrcPbrzzmdu5bSnGNqJR0hNcxWOykNCEZGsvCz1vsF99LEHZ5FDxL69 tYdgxNfOMfq9p2z2dG7ux/w/mZCPd+zNQobzoHncH1m0Eouxkfo+UsyYrUUfWusr6hTJ Vo0djsRKhp9OrgsI+hsNPf2seyouI1hJ+qI55D9QIBI3NQptJyrOumWNHq1uJs7DoHUR GExIgpOvTzosxY2McOVA5u8XBri6ehVkr6Ioglufjwg2tqgwXsBvQ/wBrLorHyr3Nfbw AYS0JEV5lM6iYc1bU88GAMrYes4tzUGJfENVAQoiufNR/9DFU06Tnj6NLBZXuA1JnGDk aj6Q== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date :message-id:subject:to:cc; bh=ZJNv4u4Z66dnbrnlsrhUOXnaVIzy7JF0j4FZlB9Mcx8=; b=hHFl0vesDQEM77sxRdc9SG5r7TYe7LRs5hEd4+/dgNtED6us5FFC88yLjmPQOnmgNI BpY19LnuiroKk0ZSIlPkiYawDfioOZijPZ2jchMjUmtqBB47HD0690/KKDdxbWbymwvX sX4NZQA0NnHf1BtoVWgGi8hB+VN5FxLpaHeu4i06kPPK6J1da4kiBoKlpqxkcMr9Rbqi HPdS062NSBv4RUf2YK44j1sQvCNv15u8tgTvZ9JqDBXD69l8kJDbCtZKngTAQYKXplgK DAXqCpzz6NuzdRmQYWkeQFAX3AEM8lNWBY5yplbnucXa92jXEhmHFt5O74YaobSed6ku s5MQ== X-Gm-Message-State: AGi0PuZ81YR6B5mz/oDFOottzwSiZfl+rViD/2CDx2tgSd+hcinQi7Gf Q4M6T42lcLeOIBCa9v14OfVpqzP28iolsMjdAytDTA== X-Google-Smtp-Source: APiQypJ/F43IEX74k1NMeV69iAL5QBEhp+lPvY+JJEloxDvJY66dhpnM5W/5SlSiseCnUKxyryMWFQnMGekgdEh0i58= X-Received: by 2002:a5d:500b:: with SMTP id e11mr6407251wrt.272.1586712192779; Sun, 12 Apr 2020 10:23:12 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 References: <9AD3C4BB-7965-4776-84C4-6B5BFDCAA262@tzi.org> <15C8F1D1-B560-4D52-8D77-377C6B1C0518@tzi.org> In-Reply-To: From: Ivaylo Petrov Date: Sun, 12 Apr 2020 19:22:46 +0200 Message-ID: To: tom petch Cc: core , "netmod@ietf.org" Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="0000000000009c9b3905a31b3853" Archived-At: Subject: Re: [netmod] =?utf-8?b?W2NvcmVdICDwn5SUIGFkbWluIFdHIExhc3QgQ2FsbCBv?= =?utf-8?q?f_CORECONF_drafts=3A_draft-ietf-core-yang-yang-library-01?= X-BeenThere: netmod@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: NETMOD WG list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sun, 12 Apr 2020 17:23:17 -0000 --0000000000009c9b3905a31b3853 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hello Tom, Thank you for the additional details! I updated the security considerations and the link [1] can still be used for the diff between version -01 of the draft and our current version. If there are no new comments in the next few days, I intend to submit a new revision of the draft. Best regards, Ivaylo [1]: https://tools.ietf.org/rfcdiff?url1=3Ddraft-ietf-core-yang-library&url2=3Dh= ttp://core-wg.github.io/yang-cbor/draft-ietf-core-yang-library-latest.txt. On Thu, Apr 9, 2020 at 10:47 AM tom petch wrote: > From: Ivaylo Petrov > Sent: 08 April 2020 13:06 > Hello Tom, > > Thank you for your review and your comments! They were indeed very > helpful. I will try to spend some more time making sure we follow the > recommendations from RFC8407, but for now please find my answers below > (prefixed with [IP]). Note that the diff after handing your comments can = be > found at [1] for the txt file diff and [2] for the raw Markdown diff. > > > I like your initials! > > On Security, no, RFC8407 requires you to use the boilerplate from the > wiki; except that you cannot since you must reference CORECONF but I thin= k > that you must use the boiler plate with minimal change ie just adding the > reference to CORECONF. The Security in RFC7895 is out of date, no RESTCO= NF. > > Otherwise, looks ok and I will look again when a new I-D appears - I do > like the plain text I-D format as a way of working:-) > > tom petch > > Best regards, > Ivaylo > > [1]: > https://tools.ietf.org/rfcdiff?url1=3Ddraft-ietf-core-yang-library&url2= =3Dhttp://core-wg.github.io/yang-cbor/draft-ietf-core-yang-library-latest.t= xt > [2]: > https://github.com/core-wg/yang-cbor/commit/2aa29f2468c827fd4b58cad6a5dec= ba795d9c767 > > > On Mon, Mar 30, 2020 at 12:11 PM tom petch ietfc@btconnect.com>> wrote: > There is quite a lot wrong with the admin of the YANG-library I-D when > compared with RFC8407 IMHO > > Security considerations does not conform to boiler plate > > [IP]: Adding the following text in the beginning of the security > considerations will make it follow the same structure as RFC7895. Would > that be acceptable for you? > > The YANG module defined in this memo is designed to be accessed via > CORECONF > {{-comi}}, NETCONF {{RFC6241}} or RESTCONF {{RFC8040}}. Depending on the > used > protocol, the security considerations of some or all of those will apply. > > IANA considerations does not register name space > > [IP]: I added such registration. Please let me know if it looks fine. The > relevant text is: > > ## YANG Namespace Registration > > This document registers the following XML namespace URN in the "IETF XML > Registry", following the format defined in {{RFC3688}}: > > URI: please assign > urn:ietf:params:xml:ns:yang:ietf-constrained-yang-library > > Registrant Contact: The IESG. > > XML: N/A, the requested URI is an XML namespace. > > RFC 6991 is imported and so MUST be a Normative reference > > [IP]: Fixed > > ietf-sid-file is imported and so MUST be a Normative not Informative > reference for the I-D > > [IP]: Fixed > > reference ietf-core-sid would be better as RFC YYYY with an RFC Editor > note asking them to replace YYYY with the number assigned to 'YANG Schema > ... > > [IP]: Fixed > > Organization Netconf WG seems an odd choice and contradicts contact detai= ls > > [IP]: Changed to CoRE WG > > Contact does not normally specify WG Chairs > > > [IP]: I removed the chairs and left only the group and the editors. Is > that what you had in mind? > > more than one revision clause > > [IP]: Fixed > > CORECONF not an abbreviation I recognise > > [IP]: We have received other comments related to this. We will discuss > them during the meeting today and try to clarify this. > > I will look some more as and when these are addressed (or I see IETF Last > Call:-) > > Tom Petch > ________________________________________ > From: netmod > on > behalf of Carsten Bormann > > Sent: 09 March 2020 13:04 > To: core > Cc: netmod@ietf.org > Subject: [netmod] =F0=9F=94=94 WG Last Call of CORECONF drafts: > draft-ietf-core-yang-cbor-12, -sid-11, -comi-09, -yang-library-01 > > It took us a long time to get the four CORECONF drafts in sync, > but now we are ready for WGLC. > > This starts a working group last call for > =E2=80=94 draft-ietf-core-yang-cbor-12 > =E2=80=94 draft-ietf-core-sid-11 > =E2=80=94 draft-ietf-core-comi-09 > =E2=80=94 draft-ietf-core-yang-library-01 > > ending on > > 24:00 UTC on Tuesday, March 31, 2020. > > (This includes some extra time for the IETF week and for cross-WG > coordination.) > > This WGLC is copied to the netmod WG mailing list; please do have a look > at these drafts as they are slated to become a part of the greater > YANG/NETCONF/RESTCONF family. We intend the discussion to be on the > CoRE mailing list, but if you find a fundamental issue with YANG or > RESTCONF, feel free to discuss that on netmod instead. > > Please start a new email thread for each major issue that will need > discussion and make sure the subject line includes the draft name and > some sort of name for the issue. (Minor issues such as typos can also > be sent to the authors.) > > If you read the draft and think it looks fine, please send a one line > email to the list or to the chairs letting us know that so we can get > a feel of how broad the review has been. > > (To reviewers and authors:) If you are aware of any patent claims that > might apply to systems that implement these drafts, please review BCP 78 > and BCP 79 and make any appropriate IPR declaration before the last-call > ends. If you are not sure whether you need to make a declaration or not, > please talk to the chairs and we will help. > > Gr=C3=BC=C3=9Fe, Carsten > > _______________________________________________ > netmod mailing list > netmod@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/netmod > _______________________________________________ > core mailing list > core@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/core > --0000000000009c9b3905a31b3853 Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Hello Tom,

Thank you for th= e additional details! I updated the security considerations and the link [1= ] can still be used for the diff between version -01 of the draft and our c= urrent version. If there are no new comments in the next few days, I intend= to submit a new revision of the draft.

Best regards,
Ivaylo
<= br>[1]: https://tools.ietf.org/rfcdiff?url1=3Ddraft-ietf-cor= e-yang-library&url2=3Dhttp://core-wg.github.io/yang-cbor/draft-ietf-cor= e-yang-library-latest.txt.




On= Thu, Apr 9, 2020 at 10:47 AM tom petch <ietfc@btconnect.com> wrote:
From: Ivaylo Petrov <ivaylo@ackl.io>
Sent: 08 April 2020 13:06
Hello Tom,

Thank you for your review and your comments! They were indeed very helpful.= I will try to spend some more time making sure we follow the recommendatio= ns from RFC8407, but for now please find my answers below (prefixed with [I= P]). Note that the diff after handing your comments can be found at [1] for= the txt file diff and [2] for the raw Markdown diff.

<TP>
I like your initials!

On Security, no, RFC8407 requires you to use the boilerplate from the wiki;= except that you cannot since you must reference CORECONF but I think that = you must use the boiler plate with minimal change ie just adding the refere= nce to CORECONF.=C2=A0 The Security in RFC7895 is out of date, no RESTCONF.=

Otherwise, looks ok and I will look again when a new I-D appears - I do lik= e the plain text I-D format as a way of working:-)

tom petch

Best regards,
Ivaylo

[1]: https://tools.ietf= .org/rfcdiff?url1=3Ddraft-ietf-core-yang-library&url2=3Dhttp://core-wg.= github.io/yang-cbor/draft-ietf-core-yang-library-latest.txt
[2]: https://git= hub.com/core-wg/yang-cbor/commit/2aa29f2468c827fd4b58cad6a5decba795d9c767


On Mon, Mar 30, 2020 at 12:11 PM tom petch <ietfc@btconnect.com<mailto:ietfc@btconnect.com>>= ; wrote:
There is quite a lot wrong with the admin of the YANG-library I-D when comp= ared with RFC8407 IMHO

Security considerations does not conform to boiler plate

[IP]: Adding the following text in the beginning of the security considerat= ions will make it follow the same structure as RFC7895. Would that be accep= table for you?

The YANG module defined in this memo is designed to be accessed via CORECON= F
{{-comi}}, NETCONF {{RFC6241}} or RESTCONF {{RFC8040}}. Depending on the us= ed
protocol, the security considerations of some or all of those will apply.
IANA considerations does not register name space

[IP]: I added such registration. Please let me know if it looks fine. The r= elevant text is:

## YANG Namespace Registration

This document registers the following XML namespace URN in the "IETF X= ML
Registry", following the format defined in {{RFC3688}}:

URI: please assign urn:ietf:params:xml:ns:yang:ietf-constrained-yang-librar= y

Registrant Contact: The IESG.

XML: N/A, the requested URI is an XML namespace.

RFC 6991=C2=A0 is imported and so MUST be a Normative reference

[IP]: Fixed

ietf-sid-file is imported and so MUST be a Normative=C2=A0 not Informative = reference for the I-D

[IP]: Fixed

reference ietf-core-sid would be better as RFC YYYY with an RFC Editor note= asking them to replace YYYY with the number assigned to 'YANG Schema .= ..

[IP]: Fixed

Organization Netconf WG seems an odd choice and contradicts contact details=

[IP]: Changed to CoRE WG

Contact does not normally specify WG Chairs


[IP]: I removed the chairs and left only the group and the editors. Is that= what you had in mind?

more than one revision clause

[IP]: Fixed

CORECONF not an abbreviation I recognise

[IP]: We have received other comments related to this. We will discuss them= during the meeting today and try to clarify this.

I will look some more as and when these are addressed (or I see IETF Last C= all:-)

Tom Petch
________________________________________
From: netmod <netmod-bounces@ietf.org<mailto:netmod-bounces@ietf.org>> on behalf of= Carsten Bormann <cabo= @tzi.org<mailto:ca= bo@tzi.org>>
Sent: 09 March 2020 13:04
To: core
Cc: netmod@ietf.org<mailto:netmod@iet= f.org>
Subject: [netmod] =F0=9F=94=94 WG Last Call of CORECONF drafts: draft-ietf-= core-yang-cbor-12, -sid-11, -comi-09, -yang-library-01

It took us a long time to get the four CORECONF drafts in sync,
but now we are ready for WGLC.

This starts a working group last call for
=E2=80=94 draft-ietf-core-yang-cbor-12
=E2=80=94 draft-ietf-core-sid-11
=E2=80=94 draft-ietf-core-comi-09
=E2=80=94 draft-ietf-core-yang-library-01

ending on

=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 24:00 UTC on Tuesday, March 31, 2020.

(This includes some extra time for the IETF week and for cross-WG
coordination.)

This WGLC is copied to the netmod WG mailing list; please do have a look at these drafts as they are slated to become a part of the greater
YANG/NETCONF/RESTCONF family.=C2=A0 We intend the discussion to be on the CoRE mailing list, but if you find a fundamental issue with YANG or
RESTCONF, feel free to discuss that on netmod instead.

Please start a new email thread for each major issue that will need
discussion and make sure the subject line includes the draft name and
some sort of name for the issue.=C2=A0 (Minor issues such as typos can also=
be sent to the authors.)

If you read the draft and think it looks fine, please send a one line
email to the list or to the chairs letting us know that so we can get
a feel of how broad the review has been.

(To reviewers and authors:)=C2=A0 If you are aware of any patent claims tha= t
might apply to systems that implement these drafts, please review BCP 78 and BCP 79 and make any appropriate IPR declaration before the last-call ends. If you are not sure whether you need to make a declaration or not, please talk to the chairs and we will help.

Gr=C3=BC=C3=9Fe, Carsten

_______________________________________________
netmod mailing list
netmod@ietf.org<= ;mailto:netmod@ietf.or= g>
https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/netmod
_______________________________________________
core mailing list
core@ietf.org<mai= lto:core@ietf.org>= ;
https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/core
--0000000000009c9b3905a31b3853-- From nobody Sun Apr 12 20:13:33 2020 Return-Path: X-Original-To: netmod@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: netmod@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id AAEE23A0BB5; Sun, 12 Apr 2020 20:12:08 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.9 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.9 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id qfT82M-YEBt8; Sun, 12 Apr 2020 20:12:07 -0700 (PDT) Received: from huawei.com (lhrrgout.huawei.com [185.176.76.210]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id EBE9A3A0BB3; Sun, 12 Apr 2020 20:12:06 -0700 (PDT) Received: from lhreml711-chm.china.huawei.com (unknown [172.18.7.107]) by Forcepoint Email with ESMTP id A2F517F8628C69A22D35; 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Mon, 13 Apr 2020 09:39:01 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 References: In-Reply-To: From: "Murray S. Kucherawy" Date: Mon, 13 Apr 2020 09:38:50 -0700 Message-ID: To: Qin Wu Cc: The IESG , "draft-ietf-netmod-factory-default@ietf.org" , "netmod-chairs@ietf.org" , "netmod@ietf.org" , Kent Watsen Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="00000000000071a50c05a32eb863" Archived-At: Subject: Re: [netmod] Murray Kucherawy's No Objection on draft-ietf-netmod-factory-default-14: (with COMMENT) X-BeenThere: netmod@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: NETMOD WG list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 13 Apr 2020 16:39:05 -0000 --00000000000071a50c05a32eb863 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Hi Qin, On Sun, Apr 12, 2020 at 8:12 PM Qin Wu wrote: > Section 2: > * "All security sensitive data (i.e., private keys, passwords, etc.) > SHOULD be overwritten ..." presents a choice. Why would an implementer not > do this? * > [Qin]: This was outcome of the discussion, see the following link: > https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/netmod/qrU_71AkP42lnkR6KnfaMsoSgCs/ > i.e., folks concerned to restore security data and password to default > value, that's we introduce clean requirements to address this concern. > "Implementors SHOULD reboot the device or otherwise restart processes > needed to bootstrap it." leads me to the same question. > [Qin]: To make default configuration take effect, the device reboot is > recommended, but in some case, the IP address reachability of the device > may be lost, therefore bootstrapping may be needed. > For both of these I suggest mentioning in the document the reason it's a SHOULD and not a MUST, i.e., describe a situation when it might be okay to do something other than what it says. (Reminder: These are not blocking comments, just suggestions.) Thanks for considering these suggestions. -MSK --00000000000071a50c05a32eb863 Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Hi Qin,

<= div dir=3D"ltr">On Sun, Apr 12, 2020 at 8:12 PM Qin Wu <bill.wu@huawei.com> wrote:
Section = 2:
* "All security sensitive data (i.e., private keys, passwords, etc.)= =C2=A0 SHOULD be overwritten ..." presents a choice.=C2=A0 Why would a= n implementer not do this? *
[Qin]: This was outcome of the discussion, see the following link:
https://mailarchive.ietf.or= g/arch/msg/netmod/qrU_71AkP42lnkR6KnfaMsoSgCs/
i.e., folks concerned to restore security data and password to default valu= e, that's we introduce clean requirements to address this concern.
=
"Implementors SHOULD reboot the device or otherwise restart processes = needed to bootstrap it." leads me to the same question.
[Qin]: To make default configuration take effect, the device reboot is reco= mmended, but in some case, the IP address reachability of the device may be= lost, therefore bootstrapping may be needed.

For both of these I suggest mentioning in the document the reason it= 's a SHOULD and not a MUST, i.e., describe a situation when it might be= okay to do something other than what it says.

(Reminde= r: These are not blocking comments, just suggestions.)

Thanks for considering the= se suggestions.

-MSK
--00000000000071a50c05a32eb863-- From nobody Mon Apr 13 14:37:33 2020 Return-Path: X-Original-To: netmod@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: netmod@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3B3F73A1EAA for ; Mon, 13 Apr 2020 14:37:32 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: 0.802 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=0.802 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_50=0.8, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001, WEIRD_PORT=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (768-bit key) header.d=labn.net Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id AHebI7u6-9-8 for ; Mon, 13 Apr 2020 14:37:30 -0700 (PDT) Received: from gproxy2-pub.mail.unifiedlayer.com (gproxy2-pub.mail.unifiedlayer.com [69.89.18.3]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id DE8A53A1EA8 for ; Mon, 13 Apr 2020 14:37:30 -0700 (PDT) Received: from cmgw10.unifiedlayer.com (unknown [10.9.0.10]) by gproxy2.mail.unifiedlayer.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3BE941E105F for ; Mon, 13 Apr 2020 15:37:29 -0600 (MDT) Received: from box313.bluehost.com ([69.89.31.113]) by cmsmtp with ESMTP id O6lkjNGdhxgMWO6llj7efB; Mon, 13 Apr 2020 15:37:29 -0600 X-Authority-Reason: nr=8 X-Authority-Analysis: v=2.3 cv=Pc3ReBpd c=1 sm=1 tr=0 a=h1BC+oY+fLhyFmnTBx92Jg==:117 a=h1BC+oY+fLhyFmnTBx92Jg==:17 a=dLZJa+xiwSxG16/P+YVxDGlgEgI=:19 a=xqWC_Br6kY4A:10:nop_ipv6 a=IkcTkHD0fZMA:10:nop_charset_1 a=cl8xLZFz6L8A:10:nop_rcvd_month_year a=Vy_oeq2dmq0A:10:endurance_base64_authed_username_1 a=HLvPDLHGFjgA:10:nop_election2020_name_subject a=48vgC7mUAAAA:8 a=WQYKHugvQ3r1uMo3DKQA:9 a=QEXdDO2ut3YA:10:nop_charset_2 a=IKQvU5-mGa0A:10:nop_port a=-RoEEKskQ1sA:10:nop_election2020_name_body a=w1C3t2QeGrPiZgrLijVG:22 a=vDy5TtLqEPMgiSF81U3U:22 a=p-dnK0njbqwfn1k4-x12:22 a=jjky5lfK57Ii_Ajn6BuG:22 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; q=dns/txt; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=labn.net; s=default; h=Content-Transfer-Encoding:Content-Type:MIME-Version:Date: Message-ID:Cc:To:Subject:From:Sender:Reply-To:Content-ID:Content-Description: Resent-Date:Resent-From:Resent-Sender:Resent-To:Resent-Cc:Resent-Message-ID: In-Reply-To:References:List-Id:List-Help:List-Unsubscribe:List-Subscribe: List-Post:List-Owner:List-Archive; bh=Lgi4x2waIXl0VUhbvI0R8QiZOgcyla/3MZevR/1g4Kw=; b=ZC8dgy1hO3QctizXDPEZuJfXZ/ h748nhanh5fRZNkXRheMwIwJtVwcu7pabmla74YB5Qk5J0WAGnsiJ0oj7TireKuDj5AV02ny84v3k lHnVNMuStt96rrTGO1hhRSKuh; Received: from [127.0.0.1] (port=60587 helo=[IPv6:::1]) by box313.bluehost.com with esmtpsa (TLSv1.2:ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256:128) (Exim 4.92) (envelope-from ) id 1jO6lk-000iyZ-QN; Mon, 13 Apr 2020 15:37:28 -0600 From: Lou Berger To: NETMOD Group Cc: "netmod-chairs@ietf.org" Message-ID: <9b8f93ae-f5ec-f8c8-4d53-bdb22978b7b1@labn.net> Date: Mon, 13 Apr 2020 17:37:23 -0400 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 10.0; WOW64; rv:60.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/60.3.1 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Content-Language: en-US X-AntiAbuse: This header was added to track abuse, please include it with any abuse report X-AntiAbuse: Primary Hostname - box313.bluehost.com X-AntiAbuse: Original Domain - ietf.org X-AntiAbuse: Originator/Caller UID/GID - [47 12] / [47 12] X-AntiAbuse: Sender Address Domain - labn.net X-BWhitelist: no X-Source-IP: 127.0.0.1 X-Source-L: Yes X-Exim-ID: 1jO6lk-000iyZ-QN X-Source: X-Source-Args: X-Source-Dir: X-Source-Sender: ([IPv6:::1]) [127.0.0.1]:60587 X-Source-Auth: lberger@labn.net X-Email-Count: 2 X-Source-Cap: bGFibm1vYmk7bGFibm1vYmk7Ym94MzEzLmJsdWVob3N0LmNvbQ== X-Local-Domain: yes Archived-At: Subject: [netmod] virtual hum: draft-tao-netmod-yang-node-tags-01 X-BeenThere: netmod@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: NETMOD WG list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 13 Apr 2020 21:37:32 -0000 Hi,     At our interim, we mentioned that we were going to do a virtual hum on draft-tao-netmod-yang-node-tags-01 - we will be conducting this hum via etherpad.   (Yes, this is a total experiment!) To express your support or disinterest, please visit https://etherpad.ietf.org:9009/p/notes-ietf-107-netmod-hums and add you opinion via a single response to each three questions.  Logins are not required, but we reserve the right to check IPs. We plan to announce the results later this month. Thank you, Kent, Lou (and Joel) From nobody Mon Apr 13 20:59:30 2020 Return-Path: X-Original-To: netmod@ietf.org Delivered-To: netmod@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from ietfa.amsl.com (localhost [IPv6:::1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 59BF03A09D2; Mon, 13 Apr 2020 20:59:21 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: Barry Leiba via Datatracker To: "The IESG" Cc: draft-ietf-netmod-factory-default@ietf.org, netmod-chairs@ietf.org, netmod@ietf.org, Kent Watsen , kent+ietf@watsen.net X-Test-IDTracker: no X-IETF-IDTracker: 6.126.0 Auto-Submitted: auto-generated Precedence: bulk Reply-To: Barry Leiba Message-ID: <158683676134.5733.17914022334915713202@ietfa.amsl.com> Date: Mon, 13 Apr 2020 20:59:21 -0700 Archived-At: Subject: [netmod] Barry Leiba's No Objection on draft-ietf-netmod-factory-default-14: (with COMMENT) X-BeenThere: netmod@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 List-Id: NETMOD WG list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 14 Apr 2020 03:59:22 -0000 Barry Leiba has entered the following ballot position for draft-ietf-netmod-factory-default-14: No Objection When responding, please keep the subject line intact and reply to all email addresses included in the To and CC lines. (Feel free to cut this introductory paragraph, however.) Please refer to https://www.ietf.org/iesg/statement/discuss-criteria.html for more information about IESG DISCUSS and COMMENT positions. The document, along with other ballot positions, can be found here: https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-netmod-factory-default/ ---------------------------------------------------------------------- COMMENT: ---------------------------------------------------------------------- The Abstract mentions the YANG data model and the datastore, but not the Factory-Reset RPC. I think it should mention that as well. From nobody Tue Apr 14 05:17:32 2020 Return-Path: X-Original-To: netmod@ietf.org Delivered-To: netmod@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from ietfa.amsl.com (localhost [IPv6:::1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id CA7563A0D5E; Tue, 14 Apr 2020 05:17:26 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: internet-drafts@ietf.org To: Cc: netmod@ietf.org X-Test-IDTracker: no X-IETF-IDTracker: 6.126.0 Auto-Submitted: auto-generated Precedence: bulk Reply-To: netmod@ietf.org Message-ID: <158686664677.7360.1938653597072953676@ietfa.amsl.com> Date: Tue, 14 Apr 2020 05:17:26 -0700 Archived-At: Subject: [netmod] I-D Action: draft-ietf-netmod-yang-instance-file-format-12.txt X-BeenThere: netmod@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 List-Id: NETMOD WG list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 14 Apr 2020 12:17:27 -0000 A New Internet-Draft is available from the on-line Internet-Drafts directories. This draft is a work item of the Network Modeling WG of the IETF. Title : YANG Instance Data File Format Authors : Balazs Lengyel Benoit Claise Filename : draft-ietf-netmod-yang-instance-file-format-12.txt Pages : 28 Date : 2020-04-14 Abstract: There is a need to document data defined in YANG models when a live server is unavailable. Data is often needed at design or implementation time or needed when a live running server is unavailable. This document specifies a standard file format for YANG instance data, which follows the syntax and semantics of existing YANG models, and annotates it with metadata. The IETF datatracker status page for this draft is: https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-netmod-yang-instance-file-format/ There are also htmlized versions available at: https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-netmod-yang-instance-file-format-12 https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/html/draft-ietf-netmod-yang-instance-file-format-12 A diff from the previous version is available at: https://www.ietf.org/rfcdiff?url2=draft-ietf-netmod-yang-instance-file-format-12 Please note that it may take a couple of minutes from the time of submission until the htmlized version and diff are available at tools.ietf.org. 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Tue, 14 Apr 2020 12:17:38 +0000 From: =?utf-8?B?QmFsw6F6cyBMZW5neWVs?= To: Kent Watsen CC: "netmod@ietf.org" Thread-Topic: [netmod] Shepherd review on draft-ietf-netmod-yang-instance-file-format-10 Thread-Index: AQHWBsiHw0i2pb8NhUW3/SG15kFU86hh7+OAgAPCO/CAC5ZegIABAK1g Date: Tue, 14 Apr 2020 12:17:37 +0000 Message-ID: References: <010001712ce4c5fe-04a059c3-ced3-4e6d-8389-5dd7c1257ac2-000000@email.amazonses.com> <010001712e483a1b-204d92e3-7046-46fb-b6b8-13d8ad4cb9ff-000000@email.amazonses.com> <0100017160917518-a18954f3-8e57-4286-904a-5a3e9779ff31-000000@email.amazonses.com> In-Reply-To: <0100017160917518-a18954f3-8e57-4286-904a-5a3e9779ff31-000000@email.amazonses.com> Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: yes X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: authentication-results: spf=none (sender IP is ) smtp.mailfrom=balazs.lengyel@ericsson.com; x-originating-ip: [80.98.254.17] x-ms-publictraffictype: Email x-ms-office365-filtering-correlation-id: f4846c6e-e66f-4db6-d92d-08d7e06dd26b x-ms-traffictypediagnostic: DB7PR07MB4619: x-microsoft-antispam-prvs: x-ms-oob-tlc-oobclassifiers: OLM:3276; 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protocol="application/x-pkcs7-signature"; micalg=SHA1; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_05B0_01D61267.73B2FDD0" MIME-Version: 1.0 X-OriginatorOrg: ericsson.com X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-Network-Message-Id: f4846c6e-e66f-4db6-d92d-08d7e06dd26b X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-originalarrivaltime: 14 Apr 2020 12:17:38.0006 (UTC) X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-fromentityheader: Hosted X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-id: 92e84ceb-fbfd-47ab-be52-080c6b87953f X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-mailboxtype: HOSTED X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-userprincipalname: cNRpplARjwk6ternawrpZEpZ5donOO4UxhUiwCmJlljBrzc5850dr1PY9iKHFqDAUpHH4hdqXvRVwFz6XzTxbiE0W69hA2ueb0+TtW3zwTE= X-MS-Exchange-Transport-CrossTenantHeadersStamped: DB7PR07MB4619 Archived-At: Subject: Re: [netmod] Shepherd review on draft-ietf-netmod-yang-instance-file-format-10 X-BeenThere: netmod@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: NETMOD WG list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 14 Apr 2020 12:17:53 -0000 ------=_NextPart_000_05B0_01D61267.73B2FDD0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_001_05B1_01D61267.73B2FDD0" ------=_NextPart_001_05B1_01D61267.73B2FDD0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable See below as BALAZS2. Removed previously agreed issues. Uploaded as -12. Balazs =20 P.S. Kent, if further edits are needed, shall I do them via new uploaded = versions, or shall I just send the update for checking to you? =20 From: Kent Watsen =20 Sent: 2020. =C3=A1prilis 9., cs=C3=BCt=C3=B6rt=C3=B6k 22:11 To: Bal=C3=A1zs Lengyel Cc: netmod@ietf.org Subject: Re: [netmod] Shepherd review on = draft-ietf-netmod-yang-instance-file-format-10 =20 Hi Balazs, =20 On Apr 8, 2020, at 8:06 AM, Bal=C3=A1zs Lengyel = > = wrote: =20 Hello Kent, Thanks for the review. See answers below. I tried to address all you comments, sorry if I missed something.=20 I updated the draft and uploaded a -11 version. Please check/advance it. One question I could not settle: XML2RFC does not accept = =20 Only =20 Why ? Please help. =20 Because it=E2=80=99s a working group document now and so uses the = =E2=80=9Cietf=E2=80=9D prefix. Try this: =20 =20 BALAZS2: OK, thanks Structural Issues: - S5 contains an mix of important and unimportant information. I think = that the most important thing to state that the module defines an = offline format that MAY contain security sensitive information, and thus = safe handling is advised. Maybe also say something about because the = YANG module only defines a =E2=80=9Cstructure=E2=80=9D, the Security = Considerations doesn=E2=80=99t follow the template specified in = https://tools.ietf.org/html/rfc8407#section-3.7.1). For instance: s/is = designed as a wrapper specifying a format and a metadata header for YANG = instance data defined by the content-schema/specifies an offline format/ BALAZS: Most of text was required to be put there by earlier reviewers = (Mostly Juergen and Acee Lindem) and sent to the mailing list. I added that we do not follow the security template for YANG models. =20 Please add the reference to = https://tools.ietf.org/html/rfc8407#section-3.7.1 per above. BALAZS2: OK =20 - S8.1: agreed that RFC8525 is Normative, but the only place it it = referenced is in a non-normative section=E2=80=A6please add a ref to it = from a normative section. BALAZS: It is referenced from the YANG module which is normative. =20 You just added that reference, but not correctly: 1) the =E2=80=9Creference=E2=80=9D doesn=E2=80=99t follow the standard = format 2) the paragraph at the top of 3.2 doesn=E2=80=99t also list RFC 8525 BALAZS2: OK, corrected Editorial Issues: - Appendix B: - s/For instance data/Instance data/ BALAZS: Sorry, that would make the sentence incorrect. =20 Do you mean it to be =E2=80=9CFor instance, data=E2=80=9D then? If = =E2=80=9Cinstance data=E2=80=9D is supposed to be read together, maybe = use a hyphen or quotes? BALAZS2: OK, added quotes - the syntax grammar used in S3, P8 doesn=E2=80=99t make sense - use = ABNF? BALAZS:=20 =20 Please fix the grammar. =20 BALAZS2: OK, Updated grammar. - In S3, P8: =E2=80=9Cthe semicolons and the decimal point, if present, = shall be replaced by underscores=E2=80=9D - why are they not escaped? BALAZS: This is a file name. Escaping in file names does not always work = (depending on the filesystem and tools used). This is more simple and = understandable =20 No, this is a special case CLR and we never do this. I see this idea = has been in the document since -03, so it must=E2=80=99ve bee discussed, = can you point me to the discussion?=20 =20 FWIW, my OS doesn=E2=80=99t even require escaping colons. BTW, = they=E2=80=99re =E2=80=9Ccolons=E2=80=9D (not semicolons). BALAZS2: Windows doesn=E2=80=99t allow colons in the filename. Although = it=E2=80=99s not everyone=E2=80=99s favorite OS, it is pretty = widespread.=20 For Ubuntu Linux and a bash shell the colon is allowed, but tab = extension does not work properly. Sorry, I don=E2=80=99t remember any discussion on this. Timestamps were = discussed, but I don=E2=80=99t find any arguments about this = substitution. Changed semicolon->colon - It is unclear how the "inline-content-schema=E2=80=9D feature could = ever be used. I.e., there are no protocol-accessible nodes in the = module=E2=80=A6 BALAZS: The system can declare in supported/not-supported in design = documentation. E.g. in UC2, Preloading Default Configuration the = designer preparing instance data, can decide to use or not use the = inline-content-schema based on this. =20 When I make statements like this, please see it as an opportunity to = improve the document. In this case, please modify the = inline-content-schema=E2=80=99s =E2=80=9Cdescription=E2=80=9D statement = to indicate that the feature is never supported by a server, and that it = is intended to be enabled via out-of-band documentation. BTW, was this = discussed by the WG? BALAZS2: It was discussed that this inline-content-schema seems = complicated, so it should not be mandatory. After this I introduced the = feature. AFAIK no discussion after this. Actually it might be supported by a server:=20 * preloading configuration data: the server may or may not be able the = inline-content-schema. The designers preparing the instance data sets to = be loaded onto the server may use this declaration as a design guide * if a server also produces instance data files (e.g. UC5 Storing = diagnostics data), and I am writing a post-processing tool to handle = these files, I would use the support for this feature as an input = requirement: does my tool need to support inline-content-schema While the server will probably not declare support for the = ietf-yang-instance-data module and this feature, the support of the = statement about feature support would be available in the product = documentation. I changed the description to=20 feature inline-content-schema { description "This feature indicates that inline content-schema =20 option is supported. Support for this feature might=20 be documented only via out-of-band documentation."; } Is that OK? - "leaf-list inline-module" is "min-elements 1=E2=80=9D and "ordered-by = user=E2=80=9D, but "leaf-list module=E2=80=9D has neither (though it may = be that ordering is irrelevant for simple-inline). BALAZS: ordered-by removed. It doesn't really mean anything. In this = case there is no chance of the system reordering a list a = CLI/Netconf/Restconf client provided. Min-elements is not needed for simplified-inline as the case will only = be selected if there is at least one "module" leaf-list entry. It is = needed for inline because otherwise the case could contain an " = inline-schema" anydata section and no "inline-module" entries. That = would not be usable. =20 That may be true, but it=E2=80=99s equally true for the other leaf-list. = It's inconsistent. =20 BALAZS2: OK. added min-elements 1; =20 =20 BTW, is "choice content-schema-spec=E2=80=9D meant to be = =E2=80=9Cmandatory true=E2=80=9D? - because, currently, = 'content-schema=E2=80=9D doesn=E2=80=99t have to be specified according = to the model=E2=80=A6 BALAZS2: No, it is optional. As described in section 2.1 there is an = external method to define the content schema outside the instance data = file. External Method: Do not include the "content-schema" node; the user needs to obtain the information through external documents. =20 =20 - The last two sentences of the =E2=80=9Cdescription=E2=80=9D statement = on line 207 in the YANG module contradict each other. BALAZS: Why ? I don't see the contradiction. If you know a single = datastore specify it. If not omit the leaf. If the leaf is omitted, the = situation is unknown. =20 I think the word =E2=80=9Cundefined=E2=80=9D is throwing me. Maybe = =E2=80=9Cunspecified=E2=80=9D would be better? BALAZS: OK changed to unspecified =20 =20 Structural issues: - The list under "Metadata SHOULD include:=E2=80=9D is not indented. BALAZS: OK, added =20 I don=E2=80=99t see it. The way to do it is by adding a fake = =E2=80=9Clist=E2=80=9D, with missing symbols, to put the other list = inside... BALAZS2: OK =20 - The three examples should be
of their own (e.g., 3.2.x) BALAZS: OK =20 Better, but: - the new titles don=E2=80=99t match the UC titles - perhaps remove the =E2=80=9CUCx,=E2=80=9D prefix from the titles? = It looks weird in the ToC and they're not needed in the title since the first sentence relates the example to the UC already... BALAZS2: OK - BTW, missing word =E2=80=9Cin=E2=80=9D: s/The example illustrates = UC[125] Section 1 /The example illustrates UC[125] in Section 1/ BALAZS2: OK - The =E2=80=9Cinline=E2=80=9D choice node is generally confusing. I = can=E2=80=99t tell if it=E2=80=99s missing container called = =E2=80=9Cinline=E2=80=9D or if the two descendant nodes are poorly = named. In either case, it would be best to try to make it more = readable. BALAZS: Yes it is complicated. Some members of Netmod (I think Rob W.) = Asked for a full, powerful, flexible way of documenting the content = schema. In some cases it is needed. =20 I=E2=80=99m not saying that it=E2=80=99s purpose is confusing, = I=E2=80=99m saying that its poorly named or missing a parent container. = Try looking at your examples with =E2=80=9Cfresh=E2=80=9D eyes. The = node names "inline-module=E2=80=9D and =E2=80=9Cinline-schema=E2=80=9D = are odd. It seems like =E2=80=9Cinline-module=E2=80=9D could be = =E2=80=9Canydata-schema=E2=80=9D and "inline-schema=E2=80=9D could be = =E2=80=9Cmodule-data=E2=80=9D? BALAZS2:=20 There is a parent container =E2=80=9Ccontent-schema=E2=80=9D around the = choice. =20 inline-module: the name should contain the word module, because the = content is a module for a specific purpose. What it really is: = Modules-defining-inline-content-schema, but I didn=E2=80=99t find a good = short version for this. Modules-defining-inline-content-schema. anydata-schema doesn=E2=80=99t sound right because: * Each individual leaf-list entry is just one module not a complete = schema as a unit. As there are two anydata nodes, it could also be = confusing which do we mean. inline-schema : the name should contain the word schema, because this is = what defines the content-schema. Module-data does not really tell you what this is or what it=E2=80=99s = purpose is. It can also be confused with content-data. IMHO the current names inside a content-schema container are not bad, = but any better proposals? =20 Editorial issues: - remove P3=E2=80=99s forward-reference to S3, P9? BALAZS: Sorry, I did not find this. Could you specify the text around = it =20 Two formats are specified based on the XML and JSON YANG encodings. Later as other YANG encodings (e.g., CBOR) are defined, further instance data formats may be specified. =20 Which is normatively described below. I=E2=80=99d either delete or move = this text down so it=E2=80=99s all together. BALAZS2: This is not a forward reference. =E2=80=9CLater=E2=80=9D in = this case means in this case means Later in time not later in the = document. This sentence was specifically requested by earlier reviewers. = How would you word this sentence. =20 FWIW, generally, your writing style involves a lot of prefacing, whereas = it=E2=80=99s somewhat more readable to have minimal text possible, = ideally most text being in the YANG module themselves. As an aside, I = also sometimes start a document with use-cases (to build support), but = then delete the use-cases after adoption. I find the prevalence of the = use-cases here detracting from readability. =20 =20 - s/e.g., UC5 documenting diagnostic data/(e.g., UC5 [Section 2])/ BALAZS: I prefer to use the short name of the use case instead of the = reference. IMHO it provides information instantly without a look-up. Is = that a problem? =20 I think I mentioned this above already, but the titles are wrong. =20 =20 Myself, I=E2=80=99d remove all the =E2=80=9CFigure=E2=80=9D postambles; = I never title my figures, just more to have to look at and maintain. In = the case, this is where the US titles are again incorrect... BALAZS2: OK, Figure=E2=80=9D postambles removed. =20 - s/for "UC2 Preloading Data=E2=80=9D/for UC2 [Section 2],/ BALAZS: I prefer to use the short name of the use case instead of the = reference. IMHO it provides information instantly without a look-up. Is = that a problem? =20 Same comment used elsewhere. Firstly, the titles are incorrect. = Second, the presentation is rather informal, a more formalized version = might be: OLD: (e.g., for "UC2 Preloading Data" the=20 NEW: (e.g., for the "Preloading default configuration data" use-case = (UC2 in Section 1), the BALAZS2: OK BTW, I think the period from the end of the previous sentence is meant = to follow the close-parentheses here... BALAZS2: OK - S3.1.1 P2 doesn=E2=80=99t makes sense to me (esp. the verdt ref, which = likely should be removed or better explained) BALAZS: This was explicitly requested by 2 members of the verdt team. I = tried to amend the text to make it more understandable, however IMHO we = should not try to explain the usage of revision label here. Also this is = just an example. =20 OLD:=20 (e.g., revision labels which can be used as alternative to the = revision date[I-D.verdt-netmod-yang-module-versioning]).=20 =20 NEW: (e.g., revision labels, described by = [I-D.verdt-netmod-yang-module-versioning] as alternative to the revision date).=20 BALAZS2: OK =20 BTW, immediately following, the text says "See Section 2.2.=E2=80=9D = This doesn=E2=80=99t mean Anything to me. Do you want to say something like =E2=80=9CAn example = of the =E2=80=9Cinline=E2=80=9D method is provided in 2.2.1=E2=80=9D? BALAZS: OK, changed. - s/is based on "UC1, Documenting Server = Capabilities=E2=80=9D/exemplifies UC1 [Section 2]/ BALAZS: Exemplifying is an uncommon word I find ugly. Is the current = text hard to understand or misleading?=20 I changed it to " The following example illustrates ..." I hope that's = OK. =20 I=E2=80=99m unsure if it=E2=80=99s possible for something to be = =E2=80=9Cbased on=E2=80=9D or =E2=80=9Cillustrate=E2=80=9D a use case. = Illustrate is better though, maybe =E2=80=9Creflects=E2=80=9D or = =E2=80=9Cepitomizes"? BALAZS2: OK, changed all illustrates to reflects BTW, missing =E2=80=9Cin": s/illustrates UC1 Section 1/illustrates UC1 = in Section 1/ BALAZS: OK =20 - s/- Use case 1, Documenting server capabilities/Exemplifying UC1/ BALAZS: Exemplifying is an uncommon word I find ugly. Is the current = text hard to understand or misleading? =20 IMHO the string stating the name of the use case is more helpful then a = reference, that needs to be looked up. I changed it to " The following example illustrates ..." I hope that's = OK. =20 Same comment as above. BALAZS2: OK, Figure tiles removed as you proposed. - s/is based on "UC2, Preloading Default = Configuration=E2=80=9D/exemplifies UC2 [Section 2]/ BALAZS: Exemplifying is an uncommon word I find ugly. Is the current = text hard to understand or misleading? =20 I changed it to " The following example illustrates ..." I hope that's = OK. =20 Same comment as above. BALAZS2: OK, changed to reflects - s/- Use case 2, Preloading access control data/Exemplifying UC2/ BALAZS: Exemplifying is an uncommon word I find ugly. Is the current = text hard to understand or misleading? =20 IMHO the string stating the name of the use case is more helpful then a = reference, that needs to be looked up =20 Same comment as above. BALAZS2: OK, Figure tiles removed as you proposed. > - s/is based on UC5 Storing diagnostics data/exemplifies UC5 [Section = 2]/ BALAZS: OK. but I changed it to: exemplifies UC5, Storing diagnostics = data. IMHO the string stating the name of the use case is more helpful = then a reference, that needs to be looked up. I changed it to " The following example illustrates "UC2, Preloading = ..." I hope that's OK. =20 Same comment as above. BALAZS2: OK, changed all illustrates to reflects - s/- UC5 Storing diagnostics data/Exemplifying UC5/ BALAZS: Exemplifying is an uncommon word I find ugly. Is the current = text hard to understand or misleading? =20 IMHO the string stating the name of the use case is more helpful then a = reference, that needs to be looked up.> I changed it to " The following example illustrates ..." I hope that's = OK. =20 Same comment as above. BALAZS2: OK, Figure tiles removed as you proposed. Editorial issues inside the YANG module: - "description" statement on line 74: rephrase to make more sense. BALAZS: Other people thought it was OK. Any specific suggestion? =20 OLD: "A data structure to define a format for YANG instance data sets. Consists of meta-data about the instance data set and the real content-data.=E2=80=9D; NEW: "A data structure to define a format for YANG instance data. The majority of the YANG nodes provide meta-data about the instance data; the instance data itself is is contained only in the 'content-data=E2=80=99 node.=E2=80=9D; BALAZS2: OK =20 - :description" statement on line 92: so confusing. Just write = =E2=80=9CThe =E2=80=98revision' of the 'ietf-yang-instance-data=E2=80=99 = module used to encode this 'instance-data-set=E2=80=99.=E2=80=9D BALAZS: OK - =E2=80=9Cdescription" statement on line 100: s/content schema/schema = (i.e., YANG modules)/? BALAZS: The term "content-schema" is defined in the terminology section. = It defines =20 =20 Fine, but please add "(i.e., YANG modules)=E2=80=9D so people will have = better clue=20 - =E2=80=9Ctype string=E2=80=9D statement on lines 109 and 131 are = missing a =E2=80=9Cpattern" statement. BALAZS: OK, Defined it as a typedef. =20 Good! But I=E2=80=99m unsure about the pattern statement (esp. "pattern = '.|..|[^xX].*|.[^mM].*|..[^lL].*=E2=80=99;=E2=80=9D)=E2=80=A6did you = copy/paste it from somewhere? BALAZS2: The initial part, and the section you mention is from RFC6991 = I-D.ietf-netmod-yang-module-versioning A YANG identifier MUST NOT start with any possible combination of the lowercase or uppercase character sequence 'xml'. - =E2=80=9Cdescription" statement on line 110: should this be mostly the = same as the description statement of line 134, sans the bit regarding = features, deviations, etc.? BALAZS: Paragraphs 2,3 are the same. Paragraphs 1, 4,5,6 are really = different. Inline is not just the same list with features, it involves = one more level of indirection in defining the content schema. =20 If you say so, =20 =20 - line 152: s/ietf-yang-library@2019-01-04/revision "2019-01-04=E2=80=9D = of the "ietf-yang-library=E2=80=9D module/? BALAZS: OK - P2 in the =E2=80=9Cdescription" statements on lines 220 and 249: s/For = instance data sets/Instance data sets/ BALAZS: The sentence will not make sense unless I change the comma at = the end of sentence to a colon. =20 Hmmm, that didn=E2=80=99t come out very well. This is the same issue as = before, whereby =E2=80=9CFor instance data...=E2=80=9D looks like it = should be read =E2=80=9CFor instance, data=E2=80=A6=E2=80=9D. Maybe you = can find a better way to express this? =20 PS: this command produces output: pyang -f yang --keep-comments = --yang-line-length 69 ietf-yang-instance-data@2020-04-02.yang = > tmp; diff = ietf-yang-instance-data@2020-04-02.yang = tmp =20 New: missing space: s/artwork = folding[I-D.ietf-netmod-artwork-folding]/artwork folding = [I-D.ietf-netmod-artwork-folding]/ BALAZS2: OK Kent // shepherd =20 =20 ------=_NextPart_001_05B1_01D61267.73B2FDD0 Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

See below = as BALAZS2. Removed previously agreed issues. Uploaded as = -12.

Balazs

 

P.S. Kent, = if further edits are needed, shall I do them via new uploaded versions, = or shall I just send the update for checking to you?

 

From: Kent Watsen = <kent+ietf@watsen.net>
Sent: 2020. =C3=A1prilis 9., = cs=C3=BCt=C3=B6rt=C3=B6k 22:11
To: Bal=C3=A1zs Lengyel = <balazs.lengyel@ericsson.com>
Cc: = netmod@ietf.org
Subject: Re: [netmod] Shepherd review on = draft-ietf-netmod-yang-instance-file-format-10

=

 

Hi = Balazs,


Structural Issues:

- S5 contains an mix of = important and unimportant information.   I think that the most = important thing to state that the module defines an offline format that = MAY contain security sensitive information, and thus safe handling is = advised.  Maybe also say something about because the YANG module = only defines a =E2=80=9Cstructure=E2=80=9D,  the Security = Considerations doesn=E2=80=99t follow the template specified in https://tools.= ietf.org/html/rfc8407#section-3.7.1).  For instance: s/is = designed as a wrapper specifying a format and a metadata header for YANG = instance data defined by the content-schema/specifies an offline = format/
BALAZS: Most of text was required to be put there by earlier = reviewers (Mostly Juergen and Acee Lindem) and sent to the mailing = list.
I added that we do not follow the security template for YANG = models.

 

Please add the reference to https://tools.= ietf.org/html/rfc8407#section-3.7.1 per above.

BALAZS2: OK

 

 - S8.1: agreed that RFC8525 is Normative, but = the only place it it referenced is in a non-normative = section=E2=80=A6please add a ref to it from a normative = section.
BALAZS: It is referenced from the YANG module which is = normative.

 

You just added that reference, but not = correctly:

  1) the = =E2=80=9Creference=E2=80=9D doesn=E2=80=99t follow the standard = format

  2) the = paragraph at the top of 3.2 doesn=E2=80=99t also list RFC = 8525

BALAZS2: OK, = corrected


Editorial Issues:

 - Appendix = B:
    - s/For instance data/Instance = data/

BALAZS: Sorry, that would make the sentence = incorrect.

 

Do you mean it to be =E2=80=9CFor instance, = data=E2=80=9D then?   If =E2=80=9Cinstance data=E2=80=9D is = supposed to be read together, maybe use a hyphen or = quotes?

BALAZS2: OK, added = quotes

- = the syntax grammar used in S3, P8 doesn=E2=80=99t make sense - use = ABNF?

BALAZS: =

 

Please fix the grammar.

 

BALAZS2: OK, Updated grammar.



- In = S3, P8: =E2=80=9Cthe semicolons and the decimal point, if present, shall = be replaced by underscores=E2=80=9D - why are they not = escaped?

BALAZS: This is = a file name. Escaping in file names does not always work (depending on = the filesystem and tools used). This is more simple and = understandable

 

No, this is a special case CLR and we never do this. =  I see this idea has been in the document since -03, so it = must=E2=80=99ve bee discussed, can you point me to the = discussion? 

 

FWIW, my OS doesn=E2=80=99t even require escaping = colons.  BTW, they=E2=80=99re =E2=80=9Ccolons=E2=80=9D (not = semicolons).

BALAZS2: Windows = doesn=E2=80=99t allow colons in the filename. Although it=E2=80=99s not = everyone=E2=80=99s favorite OS, it is pretty widespread. =

For Ubuntu Linux and a bash shell = the colon is allowed, but tab extension does not work = properly.

Sorry, I = don=E2=80=99t remember any discussion on this. Timestamps were = discussed, but I don=E2=80=99t find any arguments about this = substitution.

Changed = semicolon->colon



- It = is unclear how the "inline-content-schema=E2=80=9D feature could = ever be used.  I.e., there are no protocol-accessible nodes in the = module=E2=80=A6

BALAZS: = The system can declare in supported/not-supported in design = documentation. E.g. in UC2, Preloading Default Configuration the = designer preparing instance data, can decide to use or not use the = inline-content-schema based on = this.

 

When I make statements like this, please see it as an = opportunity to improve the document.  In this case, please modify = the inline-content-schema=E2=80=99s =E2=80=9Cdescription=E2=80=9D = statement to indicate that the feature is never supported by a server, = and that it is intended to be enabled via out-of-band documentation. =  BTW, was this discussed by the WG?

BALAZS2: It was discussed that this = inline-content-schema seems complicated, so it should not be mandatory. = After this I introduced the feature. AFAIK no discussion after = this.

Actually it might be supported = by a server:

  • preloading configuration data: the server may or may not be able = the inline-content-schema. The designers preparing the instance data = sets to be loaded onto the server may use this declaration as a design = guide
  • if a server also = produces instance data files (e.g. UC5=C2=A0 Storing diagnostics data), = and I am writing a post-processing tool to handle these files, I would = use the support for this feature as an input requirement: does my tool = need to support inline-content-schema

While the server will probably not declare support for = the ietf-yang-instance-data module and this feature, the support of the = statement about feature support would be available in the product = documentation.

I changed the = description to

=C2=A0=C2=A0feature inline-content-schema = {

=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 = description

=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 "This feature = indicates that inline content-schema=C2=A0

=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2= =A0option is supported. Support for this feature might

=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0b= e documented only via out-of-band documentation.";

=C2=A0 }

Is that = OK?

- = "leaf-list inline-module" is "min-elements 1=E2=80=9D and = "ordered-by user=E2=80=9D, but "leaf-list module=E2=80=9D has = neither (though it may be that ordering is irrelevant for = simple-inline).

BALAZS: = ordered-by  removed. It doesn't really mean anything. In this case = there is no chance of the system reordering a list a = CLI/Netconf/Restconf client provided.
Min-elements is not needed for = simplified-inline as the case will only be selected if there is at least = one "module" leaf-list entry. It is needed for inline because = otherwise the case could contain an " inline-schema" anydata = section and no "inline-module" entries. That would not be = usable.

 

That may be true, but it=E2=80=99s equally true for = the other leaf-list.  It's inconsistent.  

BALAZS2: OK. added min-elements 1; = =C2=A0

 

BTW, is "choice content-schema-spec=E2=80=9D = meant to be =E2=80=9Cmandatory true=E2=80=9D?  - because, = currently, 'content-schema=E2=80=9D doesn=E2=80=99t have to be specified = according to the model=E2=80=A6

BALAZS2: No, it is optional. As described in section = 2.1 there is an external method to define the content schema outside the = instance data file.

=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 External Method: Do not = include the "content-schema" node; the

=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 user needs to obtain the = information through external documents.

 

 

- = The last two sentences of the =E2=80=9Cdescription=E2=80=9D statement on = line 207 in the YANG module contradict each = other.

BALAZS: Why ? I = don't see the contradiction. If you know a single datastore specify it. = If not omit the leaf. If the leaf is omitted, the situation is = unknown.

 

I = think the word =E2=80=9Cundefined=E2=80=9D is throwing me.  Maybe = =E2=80=9Cunspecified=E2=80=9D would be better?

BALAZS: OK changed to = unspecified

 

 

Structural = issues:

- = The list under "Metadata SHOULD include:=E2=80=9D is not = indented.

BALAZS: OK, = added

 

I = don=E2=80=99t see it.  The way to do it is by adding a fake = =E2=80=9Clist=E2=80=9D, with missing symbols, to put the other list = inside...

BALAZS2: = OK

 

- = The three examples should be <section> of their own (e.g., = 3.2.x)

BALAZS: = OK

 

Better, but:

  - the new titles don=E2=80=99t match the UC = titles

  - perhaps = remove the =E2=80=9CUCx,=E2=80=9D prefix from the titles?  It looks = weird in

    the = ToC and they're not needed in the title since the first = sentence

    = relates the example to the UC already...

BALAZS2: OK

  - BTW, missing word =E2=80=9Cin=E2=80=9D: =  s/The example illustrates UC[125] Section = 1

    /The = example illustrates UC[125] in Section 1/

BALAZS2: OK



- = The =E2=80=9Cinline=E2=80=9D choice node is generally confusing.  I = can=E2=80=99t tell if it=E2=80=99s missing container called = =E2=80=9Cinline=E2=80=9D or if the two descendant nodes are poorly = named.  In either case, it would be best to try to make it more = readable.

BALAZS: Yes it = is complicated. Some members of Netmod (I think Rob W.) Asked for a = full, powerful, flexible way of documenting the content schema. In some = cases it is needed.

 

I=E2=80=99m not saying that it=E2=80=99s purpose is = confusing, I=E2=80=99m saying that its poorly named or missing a parent = container.  Try looking at your examples with = =E2=80=9Cfresh=E2=80=9D eyes.  The node names = "inline-module=E2=80=9D and =E2=80=9Cinline-schema=E2=80=9D are = odd.  It seems like =E2=80=9Cinline-module=E2=80=9D could be = =E2=80=9Canydata-schema=E2=80=9D and "inline-schema=E2=80=9D could = be =E2=80=9Cmodule-data=E2=80=9D?

BALAZS2:

There is = a parent container =E2=80=9Ccontent-schema=E2=80=9D around the = choice.

 

inline-module: the name should contain the word = module, because the content is a module for a specific purpose. What it = really is: Modules-defining-inline-content-schema, but I didn=E2=80=99t = find a good short version for this. = Modules-defining-inline-content-schema.

anydata-schema doesn=E2=80=99t sound right = because:

  • Each individual leaf-list entry is just one module not a complete = schema as a unit. As there are two anydata nodes, it could also be = confusing which do we mean.

inline-schema : the name should contain the word = schema, because this is what defines the = content-schema.

Module-data does not = really tell you what this is or what it=E2=80=99s purpose is. It can = also be confused with content-data.

IMHO the current names inside a content-schema = container are not bad, but any better proposals?

 

Editorial = issues:

- = remove P3=E2=80=99s forward-reference to S3, = P9?

BALAZS:  Sorry, I did not find this. Could you = specify the text around it

 

=C2=A0=C2=A0 Two formats are specified based on =
the XML and JSON YANG encodings.
=C2=A0=C2=A0 Later as other YANG encodings (e.g., =
CBOR) are defined, further
=C2=A0=C2=A0 instance data formats may be =
specified.

 

Which is normatively described below. =  I=E2=80=99d either delete or move this text down so it=E2=80=99s = all together.

BALAZS2: This is not a = forward reference. =E2=80=9CLater=E2=80=9D in this case means in this = case means Later in time not later in the document. This sentence was = specifically requested by earlier reviewers. How would you word this = sentence.

 

FWIW, generally, your writing style involves a lot of = prefacing, whereas it=E2=80=99s somewhat more readable to have minimal = text possible, ideally most text being in the YANG module themselves. =  As an aside, I also sometimes start a document with use-cases (to = build support), but then delete the use-cases after adoption.  I = find the prevalence of the use-cases here detracting from = readability.

 

 



- = s/e.g., UC5 documenting diagnostic data/(e.g., UC5 [Section = 2])/

BALAZS: I prefer to = use the short name of the use case instead of the reference. IMHO it = provides information instantly without a look-up. Is that a = problem?

 

I = think I mentioned this above already, but the titles are wrong. =  

 

Myself, I=E2=80=99d remove all the = =E2=80=9CFigure=E2=80=9D postambles; I never title my figures, just more = to have to look at and maintain.  In the case, this is where the US = titles are again incorrect...

BALAZS2: OK, Figure=E2=80=9D postambles = removed.

 

- = s/for "UC2 Preloading Data=E2=80=9D/for UC2 [Section = 2],/

BALAZS: I prefer to = use the short name of the use case instead of the reference. IMHO it = provides information instantly without a look-up. Is that a = problem?

 

Same comment used elsewhere.  Firstly, the titles = are incorrect.  Second, the presentation is rather informal, a more = formalized version might be:

OLD: (e.g., for "UC2 Preloading Data" = the 

NEW: (e.g., = for the "Preloading default configuration data" use-case (UC2 = in Section 1), the

BALAZS2: OK

BTW, I think the period from the end of the previous = sentence is meant to follow the close-parentheses = here...

BALAZS2: = OK



- = S3.1.1 P2 doesn=E2=80=99t makes sense to me (esp. the verdt ref, which = likely should be removed or better = explained)

BALAZS: This = was explicitly requested by 2 members of the verdt team. I tried to = amend the text to make it more understandable, however IMHO we should = not try to explain the usage of revision label here. Also this is just = an example.

 

OLD: 

   (e.g., revision labels which can be used = as alternative to the revision

  =  date[I-D.verdt-netmod-yang-module-versioning]). 

 

NEW:

    (e.g., revision labels, described by = [I-D.verdt-netmod-yang-module-versioning]

    as alternative to the revision = date). 

BALAZS2: = OK

 

BTW, immediately following, the text says = "See Section 2.2.=E2=80=9D   This doesn=E2=80=99t = mean

Anything to me. =  Do you want to say something like =E2=80=9CAn example of the = =E2=80=9Cinline=E2=80=9D method is provided in = 2.2.1=E2=80=9D?

BALAZS: = OK, changed.



- = s/is based on "UC1, Documenting Server = Capabilities=E2=80=9D/exemplifies UC1 [Section = 2]/

BALAZS: Exemplifying = is an uncommon word I find ugly. Is the current text hard to understand = or misleading? 

I changed it to " The following example = illustrates ..." I hope that's = OK.

 

I=E2=80=99m unsure if it=E2=80=99s possible for = something to be =E2=80=9Cbased on=E2=80=9D or = =E2=80=9Cillustrate=E2=80=9D a use case.  Illustrate is better = though, maybe =E2=80=9Creflects=E2=80=9D or = =E2=80=9Cepitomizes"?

BALAZS2: OK, changed all illustrates to = reflects

BTW, = missing =E2=80=9Cin":  s/illustrates UC1 Section 1/illustrates = UC1 in Section 1/

BALAZS: = OK

 



- = s/- Use case 1, Documenting server capabilities/Exemplifying = UC1/

BALAZS: = Exemplifying is an uncommon word I find ugly. Is the current text hard = to understand or misleading?  
IMHO the string stating  the = name of the use case is more helpful then a reference, that needs to be = looked up.
I changed it to " The following example illustrates = ..." I hope that's = OK.

 

Same = comment as above.

BALAZS2: = OK, Figure tiles removed as you = proposed.

- = s/is based on "UC2, Preloading Default = Configuration=E2=80=9D/exemplifies UC2 [Section = 2]/

BALAZS: Exemplifying = is an uncommon word I find ugly. Is the current text hard to understand = or misleading?  
I changed it to " The following example = illustrates ..." I hope that's = OK.

 

Same comment as above.

BALAZS2: OK, changed to = reflects

- = s/- Use case 2, Preloading access control data/Exemplifying = UC2/

BALAZS: = Exemplifying is an uncommon word I find ugly. Is the current text hard = to understand or misleading?  
IMHO the string stating  the = name of the use case is more helpful then a reference, that needs to be = looked up

 

Same = comment as above.

BALAZS2: OK, Figure = tiles removed as you proposed.


>  - s/is based on UC5 Storing diagnostics = data/exemplifies UC5 [Section 2]/
BALAZS: OK. but I changed it to: = exemplifies UC5, Storing diagnostics data. IMHO the string stating =  the name of the use case is more helpful then a reference, that = needs to be looked up.
I changed it to " The following example = illustrates "UC2, Preloading ..." I hope that's = OK.

 

Same = comment as above.
BALAZS2: OK, changed all illustrates to = reflects

- = s/- UC5 Storing diagnostics data/Exemplifying = UC5/

BALAZS: = Exemplifying is an uncommon word I find ugly. Is the current text hard = to understand or misleading?  
IMHO the string stating  the = name of the use case is more helpful then a reference, that needs to be = looked up.>
I changed it to " The following example = illustrates ..." I hope that's = OK.

 

Same = comment as above.
BALAZS2: OK, Figure tiles removed as you = proposed.



Editorial issues inside the YANG module:
- = "description" statement on line 74: rephrase to make more = sense.

BALAZS: Other = people thought it was OK. Any specific = suggestion?

 

OLD:

      "A data = structure to define a format for
       YANG = instance data sets. Consists of meta-data about
      =  the instance data set and the real = content-data.=E2=80=9D;

NEW:

      "A data structure to = define a format for
       YANG instance data. =   The majority of the YANG nodes = provide

    =    meta-data about the instance data; the instance data = itself is

    =    is contained only in the 'content-data=E2=80=99 = node.=E2=80=9D;

BALAZS2: = OK

 



- = :description" statement on line 92: so confusing.  Just write = =E2=80=9CThe =E2=80=98revision' of the 'ietf-yang-instance-data=E2=80=99 = module used to encode this = 'instance-data-set=E2=80=99.=E2=80=9D

BALAZS: OK

- = =E2=80=9Cdescription" statement on line 100: s/content = schema/schema (i.e., YANG modules)/?

BALAZS: The term "content-schema" is defined = in the terminology section.  It defines =  

 

Fine, but please add "(i.e., YANG = modules)=E2=80=9D so people will have better = clue 



- = =E2=80=9Ctype string=E2=80=9D statement on lines 109 and 131 are missing = a =E2=80=9Cpattern" statement.

BALAZS: OK, Defined it as a = typedef.

 

Good! =  But I=E2=80=99m unsure about the pattern statement (esp. = "pattern = '.|..|[^xX].*|.[^mM].*|..[^lL].*=E2=80=99;=E2=80=9D)=E2=80=A6did you = copy/paste it from somewhere?

BALAZS2: The initial part, and the section you mention = is from RFC6991 = I-D.ietf-netmod-yang-module-versioning

=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 A = YANG identifier MUST NOT start with any possible

=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 = combination of the lowercase or uppercase = character

=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 = sequence 'xml'.



- = =E2=80=9Cdescription" statement on line 110: should this be mostly = the same as the description statement of line 134, sans the bit = regarding features, deviations, etc.?

BALAZS: Paragraphs 2,3 are the same. Paragraphs 1, = 4,5,6 are really different. Inline is not just the same list with = features, it involves one more level of indirection in defining the = content schema.

 

If you = say so,

 

 

- = line 152: s/ietf-yang-library@2019-01-04/revision = "2019-01-04=E2=80=9D of the "ietf-yang-library=E2=80=9D = module/?

BALAZS: = OK

- P2 = in the =E2=80=9Cdescription" statements on lines 220 and 249: s/For = instance data sets/Instance data sets/

BALAZS: The sentence will not make sense unless I = change the comma at the end of sentence to a = colon.

 

Hmmm, that didn=E2=80=99t come out very well. =  This is the same issue as before, whereby =E2=80=9CFor instance = data...=E2=80=9D looks like it should be read =E2=80=9CFor instance, = data=E2=80=A6=E2=80=9D.  Maybe you can find a better way to express = this?

 

PS: = this command produces output:  pyang -f yang = --keep-comments --yang-line-length 69 ietf-yang-instanc= e-data@2020-04-02.yang > tmp; diff ietf-yang-instanc= e-data@2020-04-02.yang tmp

 

New: missing space: s/artwork = folding[I-D.ietf-netmod-artwork-folding]/artwork folding = [I-D.ietf-netmod-artwork-folding]/

BALAZS2: OK


Kent // = shepherd

 

 

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=?UTF-8?Q?Martin_Bj=c3=b6rklund?= Cc: "netmod@ietf.org" , "Rob Wilton (rwilton)" References: <20200327161318.ykrx2s36bhmaglxq@anna.jacobs.jacobs-university.de> <20200403.155421.968858617291773287.id@4668.se> <9c3ee87c0e9d14c8921796c4b53d44620b53a942.camel@nic.cz> <20200403165538.2lk4x5j32e3ctl4t@anna.jacobs.jacobs-university.de> <0a546588-6f87-3362-17da-37de8ea08956@cesnet.cz> <20200406074235.o6gkpjsim77xfzv7@anna.jacobs.jacobs-university.de> <010001715f8c4aa2-21fad32a-36d7-441e-bbb7-24e3aef1c229-000000@email.amazonses.com> From: Radek Krejci Autocrypt: addr=rkrejci@cesnet.cz; keydata= xsDiBEKfHd4RBADDE8CtJpEtOraXBKfQg0KCRZu7BRALixoLqW98U+N9h+PJ+gCnFaKNmnYu fXWLYKTJRUlaoMGIJOZjHpr/zvwozSR+VJkxCsTyNYTF8vIfN3Iwrxy9e8CNy/O1GI50K/ld WWMDl+3M2NztiBFPrCT0b/U5ErsN7bTrf2XLEQRpZwCg95POGbJPqPAaaok2KU5e2u0/flsD /AyC0aRO66Ci0OGw0R5sCJmzZ5xE5eBUvfx0N0IC16aojrwRYM5yf+bULtBDd4wPI1R+VH/X P6OrDgzlDmutJthVtYfCcho3IhqnVo1R/UvJxjF3ATKbOnVHL4xwiLSrRDb6rKVyd1+Kc7cq 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Linux x86_64; rv:68.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/68.6.0 MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: <010001715f8c4aa2-21fad32a-36d7-441e-bbb7-24e3aef1c229-000000@email.amazonses.com> Content-Type: multipart/signed; protocol="application/pkcs7-signature"; micalg=sha-256; boundary="------------ms030201050808030809050308" Archived-At: Subject: Re: [netmod] [Technical Errata Reported] RFC7950 (6031) X-BeenThere: netmod@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: NETMOD WG list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 14 Apr 2020 13:40:32 -0000 This is a cryptographically signed message in MIME format. --------------ms030201050808030809050308 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="------------475DDB94B368DF3C480BFD32" Content-Language: en-US This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --------------475DDB94B368DF3C480BFD32 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 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Dne 09. 04. 20 v 17:26 Kent Watsen napsal(a):


On Apr 6, 2020, at 3:42 AM, Juergen Schoenwaelder <j.schoenwaelder@jacobs-= university.de> wrote:

The definition I found in RFC 8639 is this:

=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0= =C2=A0leaf stream {
=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0= =C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0type stream-ref {
=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0= =C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0require-instance false;
=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0= =C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0}
=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0= =C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0mandatory true;
=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0= =C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0description
=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0= =C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0"Indicates the event stream to be considered for
=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0= =C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0this subscription.";
=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0= =C2=A0}

This could be changed to:
=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0= =C2=A0leaf stream {
=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0= =C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0type leafref {
= =C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0= =C2=A0path "/sn:streams/sn:stream/sn:name";
=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0= =C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0require-instance false;
=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0= =C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0}
=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0= =C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0mandatory true;
=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0= =C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0description
=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0= =C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0"Indicates the event stream to be considered for
=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0= =C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0this subscription.";
=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0= =C2=A0}


I can confirm that `yanglint` validates the module cleanly after this change.



On Apr 6, 2020, at 7:38 AM, Martin Bj=C3=B6rklu= nd <mbj+ietf@4668.se> wrote:
I think the correct fix is to change the text so that
"require-instance" is not classified as a restriction and keep the
default. =C2=A0

Agreed.


Also, I think that it would be easiest (for backwards
compatibility w/ existing models) to allow "require-inetance" to be changed in derived types.

However, this cannot imo be done in an errata.

While I appreciate Radek and Michal=E2=80=99s per= spective, I also think that is would be best for the community for `yanglint` to support this, as they are published modules doing it.


I don't feel as an expert for IETF processes, so I don't know if this issue can be solved in errata or not (and I'm not sure there is a consensus on this in mailing list). For the implementation, I would appreciate at least a consensus on a solution. So far I saw opinions to allow it, to disallow and also to make it implementation-specific (which means in fact to disallow from the authors perspective, since there can be a tool disallowing it and we are saying that such a tool is ok). So, there is no clear way for implementors, which means problems for interoperability - there will be always someone unhappy and so far I don't know what is the major opinion to go.

So far, I tend to allow it (accept by libyang), but print warning to warn authors about possible problems (some tool can refuse such a module). Is it ok?

Radek


As an aside, I feel that all modules should be tested against all available validation tools during the publication process, but to find issues in the modules and well as possibly improve the tools.

Sadly, I only have `yanglint` and `yangson` available to me. =C2=A0I just checked for the =E2=80=9Cyang valid= ator=E2=80=9D project, but both=C2=A0www.yangvalidator.com=C2= =A0and=C2=A0https://www.yangcatalog.org/yangvalida= tor=C2=A0seem to be down.


Kent // contributor


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<5319ca95-1f3a-33e6-aae3-cfd9861d59d7@cesnet.cz> In-Reply-To: <5319ca95-1f3a-33e6-aae3-cfd9861d59d7@cesnet.cz> From: Andy Bierman Date: Tue, 14 Apr 2020 07:35:19 -0700 Message-ID: To: Radek Krejci Cc: Kent Watsen , Juergen Schoenwaelder , =?UTF-8?Q?Martin_Bj=C3=B6rklund?= , "netmod@ietf.org" , "Rob Wilton (rwilton)" Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="00000000000087ca1505a3411ca9" Archived-At: Subject: Re: [netmod] [Technical Errata Reported] RFC7950 (6031) X-BeenThere: netmod@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: NETMOD WG list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 14 Apr 2020 14:35:36 -0000 --00000000000087ca1505a3411ca9 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hi, I agree with Juergen that this errata should be rejected and the issue resolved in yang-next. No IETF module should use this construct. It is easy to convert to an equivalent form that is not under dispute. Andy On Tue, Apr 14, 2020 at 6:40 AM Radek Krejci wrote: > Hi, > > Dne 09. 04. 20 v 17:26 Kent Watsen napsal(a): > > > > On Apr 6, 2020, at 3:42 AM, Juergen Schoenwaelder < > j.schoenwaelder@jacobs-university.de> wrote: > > The definition I found in RFC 8639 is this: > > leaf stream { > type stream-ref { > require-instance false; > } > mandatory true; > description > "Indicates the event stream to be considered for > this subscription."; > } > > This could be changed to: > > leaf stream { > type leafref { > path "/sn:streams/sn:stream/sn:name"; > require-instance false; > } > mandatory true; > description > "Indicates the event stream to be considered for > this subscription."; > } > > > I can confirm that `yanglint` validates the module cleanly after this > change. > > > > On Apr 6, 2020, at 7:38 AM, Martin Bj=C3=B6rklund wrot= e: > > I think the correct fix is to change the text so that > "require-instance" is not classified as a restriction and keep the > default. > > > Agreed. > > > Also, I think that it would be easiest (for backwards > compatibility w/ existing models) to allow "require-inetance" to be > changed in derived types. > > However, this cannot imo be done in an errata. > > > While I appreciate Radek and Michal=E2=80=99s perspective, I also think t= hat is > would be best for the community for `yanglint` to support this, as they a= re > published modules doing it. > > > I don't feel as an expert for IETF processes, so I don't know if this > issue can be solved in errata or not (and I'm not sure there is a consens= us > on this in mailing list). For the implementation, I would appreciate at > least a consensus on a solution. So far I saw opinions to allow it, to > disallow and also to make it implementation-specific (which means in fact > to disallow from the authors perspective, since there can be a tool > disallowing it and we are saying that such a tool is ok). So, there is no > clear way for implementors, which means problems for interoperability - > there will be always someone unhappy and so far I don't know what is the > major opinion to go. > > So far, I tend to allow it (accept by libyang), but print warning to warn > authors about possible problems (some tool can refuse such a module). Is = it > ok? > > Radek > > > As an aside, I feel that all modules should be tested against all > available validation tools during the publication process, but to find > issues in the modules and well as possibly improve the tools. > > Sadly, I only have `yanglint` and `yangson` available to me. I just > checked for the =E2=80=9Cyang validator=E2=80=9D project, but both www.ya= ngvalidator.com > and https://www.yangcatalog.org/yangvalidator seem to be down. > > > Kent // contributor > > > _______________________________________________ > netmod mailing list > netmod@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/netmod > --00000000000087ca1505a3411ca9 Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Hi,

I agree with Juergen that this erra= ta should be rejected and the issue resolved in yang-next.
No IET= F module should use this construct. It is easy to convert to an equivalent = form that is not under dispute.


And= y


On Tue, Apr 14, 2020 at 6:40 AM Radek Krejci <rkrejci@cesnet.cz> wrote:
=
=20 =20 =20
Hi,

Dne 09. 04. 20 v 17:26 Kent Watsen napsal(a):
=20

On Apr 6, 2020, at 3:42 AM, Juergen Schoenwaelder <j.schoenwaelder@jacobs-university.de> wrote:

The definiti= on I found in RFC 8639 is this:

=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2= =A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0leaf stream {
=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2= =A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0type stream-ref {
=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2= =A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0require-instance false;<= /span>
=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2= =A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0}
=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2= =A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0mandatory true;
=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2= =A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0description
=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2= =A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0"Indicates the even= t stream to be considered for
=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2= =A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0this subscription.= ";
=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2= =A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0}

This could be c= hanged to:

=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2= =A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0leaf stream {
=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2= =A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0type leafref {
=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0path "/sn:streams/sn:stream/sn:name";
=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2= =A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0require-instance false;<= /span>
=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2= =A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0}
=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2= =A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0mandatory true;
=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2= =A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0description
=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2= =A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0"Indicates the even= t stream to be considered for
=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2= =A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0this subscription.= ";
=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2= =A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0}


I can confirm that `yanglint` validates the module cleanly after this change.



On Apr 6, 2020, at 7:38 AM, Martin Bj=C3=B6rklund <mbj+i= etf@4668.se> wrote:

I think the correct fix is to change the text so that
"require-instanc= e" is not classified as a restriction and keep the
default. =C2=A0

Agreed.


Also, I think that it would be easiest (for backwards
compatibility w/ existing models) to allow "require-inetance" to be<= /span>
changed in derived types.

However, this cannot imo be done in an errata.

While I appreciate Radek and Michal=E2=80=99s perspective, I also think that is would be best for the community for `yanglint` to support this, as they are published modules doing it.


I don't feel as an expert for IETF processes, so I don't know i= f this issue can be solved in errata or not (and I'm not sure there i= s a consensus on this in mailing list). For the implementation, I would appreciate at least a consensus on a solution. So far I saw opinions to allow it, to disallow and also to make it implementation-specific (which means in fact to disallow from the authors perspective, since there can be a tool disallowing it and we are saying that such a tool is ok). So, there is no clear way for implementors, which means problems for interoperability - there will be always someone unhappy and so far I don't know what is the major opinion to go.

So far, I tend to allow it (accept by libyang), but print warning to warn authors about possible problems (some tool can refuse such a module). Is it ok?

Radek


As an aside, I feel that all modules should be tested against all available validation tools during the publication process, but to find issues in the modules and well as possibly improve the tools.

Sadly, I only have `yanglint` and `yangson` available to me.=C2=A0 I just checked for the =E2=80=9Cyang validat= or=E2=80=9D project, but both=C2=A0www.yangvalidator.com=C2=A0and=C2=A0https://www.yangcatalog= .org/yangvalidator=C2=A0seem to be down.


Kent // contributor


_______________________________________________
netmod mailing list
netmod@ietf.org https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/netmod
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Tue, 14 Apr 2020 16:02:54 +0000 From: =?iso-8859-1?Q?Bal=E1zs_Lengyel?= To: Qin Wu , "netmod@ietf.org" Thread-Topic: Presentation on YANG and Netconf usage in 3GPP Thread-Index: AdYI78ERzYw+2SOLSfa4vJ3tXnSwEAJhefWA Date: Tue, 14 Apr 2020 16:02:54 +0000 Message-ID: References: In-Reply-To: Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: yes X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: authentication-results: spf=none (sender IP is ) smtp.mailfrom=balazs.lengyel@ericsson.com; x-originating-ip: [80.98.254.17] x-ms-publictraffictype: Email x-ms-office365-filtering-correlation-id: c337cceb-080a-441c-0aef-08d7e08d4b01 x-ms-traffictypediagnostic: DB7PR07MB5850: x-microsoft-antispam-prvs: x-ms-oob-tlc-oobclassifiers: OLM:8882; x-forefront-prvs: 0373D94D15 x-forefront-antispam-report: CIP:255.255.255.255; CTRY:; LANG:en; SCL:1; SRV:; IPV:NLI; SFV:NSPM; H:DB7PR07MB4011.eurprd07.prod.outlook.com; PTR:; CAT:NONE; SFTY:; SFS:(10009020)(4636009)(396003)(136003)(376002)(366004)(346002)(39860400002)(66946007)(66446008)(66476007)(64756008)(26005)(478600001)(71200400001)(86362001)(6506007)(316002)(7696005)(186003)(53546011)(8676002)(9686003)(99936003)(55016002)(66574012)(4744005)(110136005)(52536014)(9326002)(81156014)(2906002)(66556008)(66616009)(76116006)(8936002)(33656002)(5660300002); DIR:OUT; SFP:1101; received-spf: None (protection.outlook.com: ericsson.com does not designate permitted sender hosts) x-ms-exchange-senderadcheck: 1 x-microsoft-antispam: BCL:0; x-microsoft-antispam-message-info: HPqxeh6owee//luVLvUrsiDxW1LZwFBi8Lc/so5oZqAPcPdJODW7wTjla+mQIIfiyFFSx72EFZ5rndjfXMeRjs0lFlqN8EJ1kqO+ayumTmoWo+EgjPwn4jNRmgtfbimuNOyMtKxHODneD49FjIzS1RRzTCYVmW1/ga77TZf879OeVDmuwdpMB/JMIyozyTsDq4VK8y2MR124PT/JEDhlL03/sfXiLWRPWxPtdcPU0deK3sWakrkUPo5n/lMm/OPDa5TJ0be5SfnO0GRcJIN+WfWJIIXSfo7VQchTXaTdlAf6wXTF2BLQM5GTWRJ3T1OHLuiZg92o8Qx4FfC1H2oVMHVBPd6KsvgfogQZ5nF7Hqb8c/VbB1U+DmFkWb06UfPYjl4Sf+1vFJl9l1DRY6W2OZMBvJ+kHhqXTuFaljvJcLsVpSt2wH6buGpfI0LMlRTw x-ms-exchange-antispam-messagedata: 5V5AGSVW8clSiqPIsyA9y0zQxOWMvItqsoalZZP8esSFmBzgZfdp+QVj6bTKJWOPPOeGa1jO/BomGqPnIJBGiQhuE61aRqTm5qiBLUQqZEw2P46udko+u6q3+ZyCaH2dMD8Wq3tx9uY0rDAQ3l6E1Q== x-ms-exchange-transport-forked: True Content-Type: multipart/signed; protocol="application/x-pkcs7-signature"; micalg=SHA1; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_05DE_01D61286.EC84EBA0" MIME-Version: 1.0 X-OriginatorOrg: ericsson.com X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-Network-Message-Id: c337cceb-080a-441c-0aef-08d7e08d4b01 X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-originalarrivaltime: 14 Apr 2020 16:02:54.7415 (UTC) X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-fromentityheader: Hosted X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-id: 92e84ceb-fbfd-47ab-be52-080c6b87953f X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-mailboxtype: HOSTED X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-userprincipalname: x0PE5XEt5IagmMvct9HAezZecwvDZCOOqL2fZjL1QT6liqBnvNQF/aLaUQhz597CChBBX8EP2Yc69imxsGMjy7fDzdCYd6dEfwRdFR72ZSI= X-MS-Exchange-Transport-CrossTenantHeadersStamped: DB7PR07MB5850 Archived-At: Subject: Re: [netmod] Presentation on YANG and Netconf usage in 3GPP X-BeenThere: netmod@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: NETMOD WG list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 14 Apr 2020 16:03:05 -0000 ------=_NextPart_000_05DE_01D61286.EC84EBA0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_001_05DF_01D61286.EC84EBA0" ------=_NextPart_001_05DF_01D61286.EC84EBA0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hello Qin, RFC6095 never gained traction, I don=92t know any toolset that supports = it. Just now I don=92t expect anything from IETF. Some 3GPP constructs like invariant, system-created, initial-value were proposed to the YANG = language development earlier, but not accepted. =20 I am trying to map the object oriented models of 3GPP into the = mainstream YANG. Regards Balazs =20 From: Qin Wu =20 Sent: 2020. =E1prilis 2., cs=FCt=F6rt=F6k 15:12 To: Bal=E1zs Lengyel ; netmod@ietf.org Subject: Presentation on YANG and Netconf usage in 3GPP =20 Hi, Balazs: Thanks for the update for what 3GPP is doing related to YANG and = NETCONF. I have a few comments to your slides which I haven=92t got time to raise = in the virtual interim meeting: 1. Mapping UML to YANG may is not lossless mapping, you may loss a = lot of information, for lossless mapping, Why you don=92t use complex type = defined in RFC6095? 2. What do you expect IETF to do for the gap identified in 3GPP? =20 -Qin ------=_NextPart_001_05DF_01D61286.EC84EBA0 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

Hello = Qin,

RFC6095 never gained traction, I don’t = know any toolset that supports it.

Just now I = don’t expect anything from IETF. Some 3GPP constructs like = invariant, system-created, initial-value were proposed to the YANG = language development earlier, but not accepted.

 

I am trying to map = the object oriented models of 3GPP into the mainstream = YANG.

Regards Balazs

 

From: Qin Wu <bill.wu@huawei.com> =
Sent: 2020. =E1prilis 2., cs=FCt=F6rt=F6k 15:12
To: = Bal=E1zs Lengyel <balazs.lengyel@ericsson.com>; = netmod@ietf.org
Subject: Presentation on YANG and Netconf = usage in 3GPP

 

Hi, = Balazs:

Thanks for the update for what 3GPP = is doing related to YANG and NETCONF. I have a few comments to your = slides which I haven’t got time to raise in the virtual interim = meeting:

1.      = Mapping UML to YANG may is not = lossless mapping, you may loss a lot of information, for lossless = mapping, Why you don’t use complex type defined in = RFC6095?

2.      = What do you expect IETF to do for = the gap identified in 3GPP?

 

-Qin

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<0100017179f09d7a-148dd8da-b5ff-494e-b77c-b13c5caa117c-000000@amazonses.watsen.net> X-Original-To: netmod@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: netmod@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id A12443A08FE for ; Tue, 14 Apr 2020 11:25:47 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.896 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.896 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_BLOCKED=0.001, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_NONE=0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (1024-bit key) header.d=amazonses.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 5q8CDl8A5vfv for ; Tue, 14 Apr 2020 11:25:46 -0700 (PDT) Received: from a8-83.smtp-out.amazonses.com (a8-83.smtp-out.amazonses.com [54.240.8.83]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 3518A3A03F3 for ; Tue, 14 Apr 2020 11:25:46 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; q=dns/txt; c=relaxed/simple; s=224i4yxa5dv7c2xz3womw6peuasteono; d=amazonses.com; t=1586888745; h=From:Content-Type:Mime-Version:Subject:Message-Id:Date:To:Feedback-ID; bh=5G9pmYwd4YGEleUzmuD9VmoUnI4KQignV2IMtxJ5kpo=; b=jc/VCrS0brf7Nbnarz4Ov1LCvXVmBpMaPS98JuKpbZAbPCz8OuLmB0oGD09x6fMh 2ulVcj5WZkxs2MPNGp8Bcns/yEFQRIwPRPITx0v+fIZBXPXChuI7FRmIgbRN/SkcvKU n46w0RFd0kd8zMIBRkERSmJeTsO7RTuitl//jb0U= From: Kent Watsen Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="Apple-Mail=_ED78B6D3-7F6F-4F80-9EDF-283BFF2BB26B" Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 12.4 \(3445.104.11\)) Message-ID: <0100017179f09d7a-148dd8da-b5ff-494e-b77c-b13c5caa117c-000000@email.amazonses.com> Date: Tue, 14 Apr 2020 18:25:44 +0000 To: "netmod@ietf.org" X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.3445.104.11) X-SES-Outgoing: 2020.04.14-54.240.8.83 Feedback-ID: 1.us-east-1.DKmIRZFhhsBhtmFMNikgwZUWVrODEw9qVcPhqJEI2DA=:AmazonSES Archived-At: Subject: [netmod] YANG Versioning weekly meeting (not a VI!) X-BeenThere: netmod@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: NETMOD WG list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 14 Apr 2020 18:25:48 -0000 --Apple-Mail=_ED78B6D3-7F6F-4F80-9EDF-283BFF2BB26B Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii For those interested in participating in discussions on the YANG = Versioning set of drafts, the following weekly 1-hour meeting has been = created by request of the authors for that purpose. ICS file attached (includes a 15-minute alarm) PS: this is NOT a virtual interim! Kent // as co-chair YANG Versioning Scheduled: Apr 14, 2020 at 9:00 AM to 10:00 AM Location: https://ietf.webex.com/ietf Invitees: NETMOD Working Group JOIN WEBEX MEETING https://ietf.webex.com/ietf/j.php?MTID=3Dm2c561452450cf19d54e91c84b70c14cc= Meeting number (access code): 617 633 719 Meeting password: Pm2SJHakZ23 JOIN BY PHONE 1-650-479-3208 Call-in toll number (US/Canada)=20 Tap here to call (mobile phones only, hosts not supported): = tel:%2B1-650-479-3208,,*01*617633719%23%23*01* 1-877-668-4493 Call-in toll free number (US/Canada)=20 Tap here to call (mobile phones only, hosts not supported): = tel:1-877-668-4493,,*01*617633719%23%23*01* Global call-in numbers: = https://ietf.webex.com/ietf/globalcallin.php?MTID=3Dm760b4453ad872ad0c5979= 9278e28ae64 Toll-free dialing restrictions:=20 https://www.webex.com/pdf/tollfree_restrictions.pdf JOIN FROM A VIDEO SYSTEM OR APPLICATION Dial sip:617633719@ietf.webex.com You can also dial 173.243.2.68 and enter your meeting number. 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=09=09=09= =20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20 \;=09=09=09=09=09= =09=09=09=09Need=20help?=20Go=20to=20http://help.webex.com=09=09=09=09=09=09=09= =09=09=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20 \;=09=09=09=09= =09=09=0D=0ASUMMARY:YANG=20Versioning=0D=0A= LAST-MODIFIED:20200414T163150Z=0D=0A= DTSTART;TZID=3DAmerica/Scoresbysund:20200414T130000=0D=0A= CREATED:20200414T163150Z=0D=0A= RRULE:FREQ=3DWEEKLY;INTERVAL=3D1;UNTIL=3D20200811T140000Z;BYDAY=3DTU=0D=0A= END:VEVENT=0D=0AEND:VCALENDAR=0D=0A= --Apple-Mail=_ED78B6D3-7F6F-4F80-9EDF-283BFF2BB26B Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii --Apple-Mail=_ED78B6D3-7F6F-4F80-9EDF-283BFF2BB26B-- From nobody Wed Apr 15 06:26:50 2020 Return-Path: X-Original-To: netmod@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: netmod@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id B0F503A0776 for ; Wed, 15 Apr 2020 06:26:40 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.898 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.898 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=unavailable autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=ackl-io.20150623.gappssmtp.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id SjuPrL57U1zt for ; Wed, 15 Apr 2020 06:26:38 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail-wr1-x42c.google.com (mail-wr1-x42c.google.com [IPv6:2a00:1450:4864:20::42c]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 1074F3A0772 for ; Wed, 15 Apr 2020 06:26:37 -0700 (PDT) Received: by mail-wr1-x42c.google.com with SMTP id u13so18672672wrp.3 for ; Wed, 15 Apr 2020 06:26:37 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=ackl-io.20150623.gappssmtp.com; s=20150623; h=mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date:message-id:subject:to :cc; bh=5pfOh5WRVG5cE2Hgza4tjMuROUF7B3sQvt8bZYwTC7Y=; b=a/lwtAny65C99IHt+tFRczaXg+SBGcek2EG/THqCU3FBOw2uWlZiitwpTzSkQpRggm Nx402BXtnKUDIMdAtYMRUTy3KG/oEHR+DDBvDbTcaB0gcxsFeIjpk5Ne7l1aVqizXNC0 Pbi/UEm5zggihWMvkvbocGs3ev7QfrkSj3MOAV04lU6d5iEajullfEVz9j54q0l/3BT+ w73c9YGvCIdJLH9QojQwMlXVMBcfOD/MLlU/pbqNjjAnKBUqLX5Uk+hVorjmWrhbGcri dwZH7imP8gXW5Q3lFawzYLcC8Q+Kcefpkj9Vt2SF3EipAzRFUtkuG2qbdzKpmlMUX7ug OL1w== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date :message-id:subject:to:cc; bh=5pfOh5WRVG5cE2Hgza4tjMuROUF7B3sQvt8bZYwTC7Y=; b=pF3no6pLeEUrnLHjUxC+vDoL0vai1xkLc86PoJltyggcfdP7tklytYEi0Ldkn0y2nn UDYMR5sHszkir81RTV9a3eSJAESJBTAFNWUOkyRMiNK/29rCGw3GZqW+lg96AFJzekU7 lVmUWoYyvOW6LtmmoJWrF3vitcZ5g7Agm4YqXh7zP7PFEtHr09Ulcyc0nSlZ9DMi4raS Mf0KgnVdyN3fQmcOxmBMNrMFHTHzVxohBzV4KI7gxrm97WDHAk+iUfEvsIa3Wxb0FMIW 7Ahv77lVTrSwiVk5xO17RL65v1HbO+F2thBalVm1cZxlrykPpY7FrLylYI5m8p9yXwiF r82A== X-Gm-Message-State: AGi0PuawhAJJ3MgSaizzkbcsYZULKJbqavcdDap+19jjiRJuJmyIB8f6 fUwLEyw/byaqsdsqe8f6BgpXy3ax9XCSWzbOIW//xg== X-Google-Smtp-Source: APiQypLHC6ba6gLgM0fihkAa9uUTg+LkvVkqvgbcgoZTqzWx54cQQaTiYu+xGIEgMKEyG0LExvw/ObWE0PKvYodebLE= X-Received: by 2002:adf:e681:: with SMTP id r1mr7640265wrm.213.1586957196264; Wed, 15 Apr 2020 06:26:36 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 References: <9AD3C4BB-7965-4776-84C4-6B5BFDCAA262@tzi.org> <15C8F1D1-B560-4D52-8D77-377C6B1C0518@tzi.org> In-Reply-To: From: Ivaylo Petrov Date: Wed, 15 Apr 2020 15:26:10 +0200 Message-ID: To: tom petch Cc: core , "netmod@ietf.org" Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="000000000000f520e605a354433e" Archived-At: Subject: Re: [netmod] =?utf-8?b?W2NvcmVdICDwn5SUIGFkbWluIFdHIExhc3QgQ2FsbCBv?= =?utf-8?q?f_CORECONF_drafts=3A_draft-ietf-core-sid-11?= X-BeenThere: netmod@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: NETMOD WG list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 15 Apr 2020 13:26:41 -0000 --000000000000f520e605a354433e Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hello Tom, Thank you for your review and your comments! They truly help us improve this document. Please find my answers below (prefixed with [IP]). Note that the diff after handing your comments and those of Esko Dijk and Juergen Schoenwaelder can be found at [1]. Best regards, Ivaylo [1]: https://tools.ietf.org/rfcdiff?url1=3Ddraft-ietf-core-sid&url2=3Dhttp://cor= e-wg.github.io/yang-cbor/draft-ietf-core-sid-latest.txt On Mon, Mar 30, 2020 at 1:16 PM tom petch wrote: > Some YANG admin for core-sid > > import must have a reference clause > [IP]: Fixed. such reference must be Normative References for the I-D > [IP]: Fixed. no RFC Editor note to update the date (I know, they will fix that :-) > [IP]: Fixed. contact lacks e-mail of WG > [IP]: Fixed. > IANA Considerations fails to register namespace > [IP]: Fixed. IANA Considerations does not specify a Group name; a well-chosen group name > makes a registry easy to find. Many if not most of the existing Group > names are not well-chosen. Please choose with care. e.g. is this for > constrained devices or for all; is it specific to YANG and will there be > other uses? .... > [IP]: That is a very good point. I am not sure how it is supposed to work - IANA will ask us about the group name when they create the registries or there is some text that we can write to request this. I will follow with a question to the working group with a few options for possible group names. Tom Petch > ________________________________________ > From: netmod on behalf of Carsten Bormann < > cabo@tzi.org> > Sent: 09 March 2020 13:04 > To: core > Cc: netmod@ietf.org > Subject: [netmod] =F0=9F=94=94 WG Last Call of CORECONF drafts: > draft-ietf-core-yang-cbor-12, -sid-11, -comi-09, -yang-library-01 > > It took us a long time to get the four CORECONF drafts in sync, > but now we are ready for WGLC. > > This starts a working group last call for > =E2=80=94 draft-ietf-core-yang-cbor-12 > =E2=80=94 draft-ietf-core-sid-11 > =E2=80=94 draft-ietf-core-comi-09 > =E2=80=94 draft-ietf-core-yang-library-01 > > ending on > > 24:00 UTC on Tuesday, March 31, 2020. > > (This includes some extra time for the IETF week and for cross-WG > coordination.) > > This WGLC is copied to the netmod WG mailing list; please do have a look > at these drafts as they are slated to become a part of the greater > YANG/NETCONF/RESTCONF family. We intend the discussion to be on the > CoRE mailing list, but if you find a fundamental issue with YANG or > RESTCONF, feel free to discuss that on netmod instead. > > Please start a new email thread for each major issue that will need > discussion and make sure the subject line includes the draft name and > some sort of name for the issue. (Minor issues such as typos can also > be sent to the authors.) > > If you read the draft and think it looks fine, please send a one line > email to the list or to the chairs letting us know that so we can get > a feel of how broad the review has been. > > (To reviewers and authors:) If you are aware of any patent claims that > might apply to systems that implement these drafts, please review BCP 78 > and BCP 79 and make any appropriate IPR declaration before the last-call > ends. If you are not sure whether you need to make a declaration or not, > please talk to the chairs and we will help. > > Gr=C3=BC=C3=9Fe, Carsten > > _______________________________________________ > netmod mailing list > netmod@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/netmod > _______________________________________________ > core mailing list > core@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/core > --000000000000f520e605a354433e Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Hello Tom,
Thank you for your review and your comments! They truly help us improve th= is document. Please find my answers below (prefixed with [IP]). Note that t= he diff after handing your comments and those of Esko Dijk and Juergen Scho= enwaelder can be found at [1].

Best regards,
Ivaylo

[1]: <= a href=3D"https://tools.ietf.org/rfcdiff?url1=3Ddraft-ietf-core-sid&url= 2=3Dhttp://core-wg.github.io/yang-cbor/draft-ietf-core-sid-latest.txt">http= s://tools.ietf.org/rfcdiff?url1=3Ddraft-ietf-core-sid&url2=3Dhttp://cor= e-wg.github.io/yang-cbor/draft-ietf-core-sid-latest.txt

O= n Mon, Mar 30, 2020 at 1:16 PM tom petch <ietfc@btconnect.com> wrote:
Some YANG admin for core-sid<= br>
import must have a reference clause

[IP]: Fixed.

such reference must be Normative References for the I-D

[IP]: Fixed.

no RFC Editor note to update the date (I know, they will fix that :-)
=C2=A0
[IP]: Fixed.

contact lacks e-mail of WG

[IP]: Fixed.
=C2= =A0
IANA Considerati= ons fails to register namespace

[IP]: Fixed.

IANA Considerations does not specify a Group name; a well-chosen group name= makes a registry easy to find.=C2=A0 Many if not most of the existing Grou= p names are not well-chosen.=C2=A0 Please choose with care. e.g. is this fo= r constrained devices or for all; is it specific to YANG and will there be = other uses? ....

[IP]: That is a very good point. I am not sure how it is suppo= sed to work - IANA will ask us about the group name when they create the re= gistries or there is some text that we can write to request this. I will fo= llow with a question to the working group with a few options for possible g= roup names.

Tom Petch
________________________________________
From: netmod <netmod-bounces@ietf.org> on behalf of Carsten Bormann <cabo@tzi.org>
Sent: 09 March 2020 13:04
To: core
Cc: netmod@ietf.org
Subject: [netmod] =F0=9F=94=94 WG Last Call of CORECONF drafts: draft-ietf-= core-yang-cbor-12, -sid-11, -comi-09, -yang-library-01

It took us a long time to get the four CORECONF drafts in sync,
but now we are ready for WGLC.

This starts a working group last call for
=E2=80=94 draft-ietf-core-yang-cbor-12
=E2=80=94 draft-ietf-core-sid-11
=E2=80=94 draft-ietf-core-comi-09
=E2=80=94 draft-ietf-core-yang-library-01

ending on

=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 24:00 UTC on Tuesday, March 31, 2020.

(This includes some extra time for the IETF week and for cross-WG
coordination.)

This WGLC is copied to the netmod WG mailing list; please do have a look at these drafts as they are slated to become a part of the greater
YANG/NETCONF/RESTCONF family.=C2=A0 We intend the discussion to be on the CoRE mailing list, but if you find a fundamental issue with YANG or
RESTCONF, feel free to discuss that on netmod instead.

Please start a new email thread for each major issue that will need
discussion and make sure the subject line includes the draft name and
some sort of name for the issue.=C2=A0 (Minor issues such as typos can also=
be sent to the authors.)

If you read the draft and think it looks fine, please send a one line
email to the list or to the chairs letting us know that so we can get
a feel of how broad the review has been.

(To reviewers and authors:)=C2=A0 If you are aware of any patent claims tha= t
might apply to systems that implement these drafts, please review BCP 78 and BCP 79 and make any appropriate IPR declaration before the last-call ends. If you are not sure whether you need to make a declaration or not, please talk to the chairs and we will help.

Gr=C3=BC=C3=9Fe, Carsten

_______________________________________________
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_______________________________________________
core mailing list
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--000000000000f520e605a354433e-- From nobody Wed Apr 15 06:27:36 2020 Return-Path: X-Original-To: netmod@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: netmod@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 81BAA3A078C for ; Wed, 15 Apr 2020 06:27:27 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.898 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.898 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=unavailable autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=ackl-io.20150623.gappssmtp.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 80KkI3K8-rZs for ; Wed, 15 Apr 2020 06:27:21 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail-wm1-x336.google.com (mail-wm1-x336.google.com [IPv6:2a00:1450:4864:20::336]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id C96133A0775 for ; Wed, 15 Apr 2020 06:27:20 -0700 (PDT) Received: by mail-wm1-x336.google.com with SMTP id d77so17437096wmd.3 for ; Wed, 15 Apr 2020 06:27:20 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=ackl-io.20150623.gappssmtp.com; s=20150623; h=mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date:message-id:subject:to :cc; bh=NGifetFEu1I2LN0x9KachFFADb01ehQEoX/dHXucKjI=; b=Tc0EJW2WyU4/sNRyNyO0plsUtNN/3S/xK2duk90C00jX3XRry7O48PiSeKg4gylUWp Egz4X8He9f18JelT6tGD/+Of8o+QNxdPhCs0fgI6U0wnbnALtrYTlSe1ktj/aQ+/n1M/ I5BDyeuPWKYm1JFmEEhj0f2M+NFPK83UEJkiV1UGk2lcOWpSHVQXmDsDiucRIhN7UJr5 UzD3FWsPRYImGmBxZx0L0iD/eBZliho5moUd7v2SlJqPm/ByG+3fU0CSwLlsx/0tM1Pf 1rZEYEFKXQiC12jm638/in0g5SdB4FSE1C6kjpk7lQ8emN61ygm6Ma/ic9CchQVGXMPj UWFg== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date :message-id:subject:to:cc; bh=NGifetFEu1I2LN0x9KachFFADb01ehQEoX/dHXucKjI=; b=at5Cv3zCFiULVQGL6Tu/2zeQHpQRTtkZvIr+i9BJi53uaNjmkURwV3JhgEeqUAHMbv DVErkWMw6+XdSX3C+SiIvnn3IusZbN1wcvWLJTwdYNQ17T1IoJ0eRmGy6j8dZdJa9jFF nVrImFo5asZS6P2fhsa38X3+5ZHYl1ODIK5Qv7ofId1CUR9wLeIC4OAUgcFugqWoyl8A qI4Cgj3cKBILkJygy3GjcMCjQnIcloEDn3rx9a3g0Md8MbAwKp2vu7erxumAKxcwsRRB +MybbMJeRGl147ix683HPADaOALACBfYSXn5gFkaJCrjnCd0CLdIOm9M2UxXiHlr41oy F4tA== X-Gm-Message-State: AGi0Pubcxxs8OZOIwMU6XoynohwRExpSmIPYJ7FVAnxvxeebENirfnWa DSggtfs2PbRF7eLLAXKF2Gda5KZvot4+gqJHYpLaooZv X-Google-Smtp-Source: APiQypJUs8LJ6NENJbr6+CkySim+rGHg9zP9hw+gA5mk91OuYWJp//G2igjQMuLap4Syg7mRhFGoH8XEzJLU1toAZHc= X-Received: by 2002:a1c:32c7:: with SMTP id y190mr5547617wmy.13.1586957239192; Wed, 15 Apr 2020 06:27:19 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 References: In-Reply-To: From: Ivaylo Petrov Date: Wed, 15 Apr 2020 15:26:52 +0200 Message-ID: To: Esko Dijk Cc: "core@ietf.org WG" , "netmod@ietf.org" Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="0000000000008424ed05a3544640" Archived-At: Subject: Re: [netmod] =?utf-8?b?W2NvcmVdIPCflJQgV0cgTGFzdCBDYWxsIG9mIENPUkVD?= =?utf-8?q?ONF_drafts=3A_draft-ietf-core-yang-cbor-12=2C_-sid-11=2C_-comi-?= =?utf-8?q?09=2C_-yang-library-01_/_-sid-11_review?= X-BeenThere: netmod@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: NETMOD WG list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 15 Apr 2020 13:27:35 -0000 --0000000000008424ed05a3544640 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hello Esko, Thank you for your review and your comments! They do help us improve this document. Please find my answers below (prefixed with [IP]). Note that the diff after handing your comments and those of Juergen Schoenwaelder can be found at [1]. Best regards, Ivaylo [1]: https://tools.ietf.org/rfcdiff?url1=3Ddraft-ietf-core-sid&url2=3Dhttp://cor= e-wg.github.io/yang-cbor/draft-ietf-core-sid-latest.txt On Mon, Mar 30, 2020 at 1:17 PM Esko Dijk wrote: > Hello CoRE, > > I did a quick review of the -sid-11 draft; it looks ready for publication= . > Some minor issues found : > > Reference to RFC 7120 early allocation procedure: the allocation policies > for the registries are all "Expert review". And the RFC 7120 early > allocation procedure is defined, to do early allocations. However RFC 712= 0 > mentions that this procedure only applies in case : > (Section 2) > a. The code points must be from a space designated as "RFC > Required", "IETF Review", or "Standards Action". Additionally, > requests for early assignment of code points from a > "Specification Required" registry are allowed if the > specification will be published as an RFC. > So at first sight it looks like the procedure is not applicable, taken > strictly. However IANA indicates ( > https://www.iana.org/help/protocol-registration) that "Expert review" is > part of "Specification Required" so it would apply still. But in RFC 8126 > this is not mentioned in the same manner - so it could confuse some reade= rs > about whether it applies or not. Maybe some text could be added to state > why RFC 7120 process does apply to the "Expert review" policy, even thoug= h > "Expert review" is not listed under Section 2 point a. of RFC 7120. (Not= e > that early allocation by RFC 7120 only applies to "Expert review" > allocations for draft documents that aim to become RFC.) > [IP]: We are in the process of reformulating this. Section 6.3.3: table column 1 is very narrow and it breaks the entry point > integer number, which is confusing. Why not make this column wider by one > character? One of the last 2 columns can be made more narrow if needed. > [IP]: Fixed. Section 3: "RESCONF" -> RESTCONF > [IP]: Fixed. > Section 3: CoRECONF -> CORECONF > [IP]: Fixed. Section 3: "For example how this could be achieved, please refer to" > -> For examples on how this could be achieved, please refer to > [IP]: Fixed. Section 3: "For diagram of one" > -> For a diagram of one ... > [IP]: Fixed. Best regards > > Esko > > IoTconsultancy.nl | Email/Skype: esko.dijk@iotconsultancy.nl > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: core On Behalf Of Carsten Bormann > Sent: Monday, March 9, 2020 14:05 > To: core > Cc: netmod@ietf.org > Subject: [core] =F0=9F=94=94 WG Last Call of CORECONF drafts: > draft-ietf-core-yang-cbor-12, -sid-11, -comi-09, -yang-library-01 > > It took us a long time to get the four CORECONF drafts in sync, > but now we are ready for WGLC. > > This starts a working group last call for > =E2=80=94 draft-ietf-core-yang-cbor-12 > =E2=80=94 draft-ietf-core-sid-11 > =E2=80=94 draft-ietf-core-comi-09 > =E2=80=94 draft-ietf-core-yang-library-01 > > ending on > > 24:00 UTC on Tuesday, March 31, 2020. > > (This includes some extra time for the IETF week and for cross-WG > coordination.) > > This WGLC is copied to the netmod WG mailing list; please do have a look > at these drafts as they are slated to become a part of the greater > YANG/NETCONF/RESTCONF family. We intend the discussion to be on the > CoRE mailing list, but if you find a fundamental issue with YANG or > RESTCONF, feel free to discuss that on netmod instead. > > Please start a new email thread for each major issue that will need > discussion and make sure the subject line includes the draft name and > some sort of name for the issue. (Minor issues such as typos can also > be sent to the authors.) > > If you read the draft and think it looks fine, please send a one line > email to the list or to the chairs letting us know that so we can get > a feel of how broad the review has been. > > (To reviewers and authors:) If you are aware of any patent claims that > might apply to systems that implement these drafts, please review BCP 78 > and BCP 79 and make any appropriate IPR declaration before the last-call > ends. If you are not sure whether you need to make a declaration or not, > please talk to the chairs and we will help. > > Gr=C3=BC=C3=9Fe, Carsten > > _______________________________________________ > core mailing list > core@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/core > _______________________________________________ > core mailing list > core@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/core > --0000000000008424ed05a3544640 Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Hello Esko,

Th= ank you for your review and your=C2=A0comments! They do help us improve thi= s document. Please find my answers below (prefixed with [IP]). Note that th= e diff after handing your comments and those of=C2=A0Juergen Schoenwaelder can be found = at [1].=C2=A0=

Best regards,
<= font color=3D"#000000">Ivaylo

[1]: https://tools.ietf.org/rfcdiff?= url1=3Ddraft-ietf-core-sid&url2=3Dhttp://core-wg.github.io/yang-cbor/dr= aft-ietf-core-sid-latest.txt


On = Mon, Mar 30, 2020 at 1:17 PM Esko Dijk <esko.dijk@iotconsultancy.nl> wrote:=
Hello CoRE,

I did a quick review of the -sid-11 draft; it looks ready for publication. = Some minor issues found :

Reference to RFC 7120 early allocation procedure: the allocation policies f= or the registries are all "Expert review". And the RFC 7120 early= allocation procedure is defined, to do early allocations. However RFC 7120= mentions that this procedure only applies in case :
=C2=A0 =C2=A0(Section 2)
=C2=A0 =C2=A0a. The code points must be from a space designated as "RF= C
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0Required", "IETF Review", or &quo= t;Standards Action".=C2=A0 Additionally,
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0requests for early assignment of code points fro= m a
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0"Specification Required" registry are = allowed if the
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0specification will be published as an RFC.
So at first sight it looks like the procedure is not applicable, taken stri= ctly. However IANA indicates (https://www.iana.org/he= lp/protocol-registration) that "Expert review" is part of &qu= ot;Specification Required" so it would apply still. But in RFC 8126 th= is is not mentioned in the same manner - so it could confuse some readers a= bout whether it applies or not. Maybe some text could be added to state why= RFC 7120 process does apply to the "Expert review" policy, even = though "Expert review" is not listed under Section 2 point a. of = RFC 7120.=C2=A0 (Note that early allocation by RFC 7120 only applies to &qu= ot;Expert review" allocations for draft documents that aim to become R= FC.)

[IP]: We are in= the process of reformulating this.

Section 6.3.3: table column 1 is very narrow and it breaks the entry point = integer number, which is confusing. Why not make this column wider by one c= haracter? One of the last 2 columns can be made more narrow if needed.
<= /blockquote>

[IP]: Fixed.

Section 3: "RESCONF" -> RESTCONF

[IP]: Fixed.
=C2=A0
Section 3: CoRECONF -> CORECONF

[IP]: Fixed.

Section 3: "For example how this could be achieved, please refer to&qu= ot;
-> For examples on how this could be achieved, please refer to

[IP]: Fixed.

Section 3: "For diagram of one"
-> For a diagram of one ...

[IP]: Fixed.

Best regards

Esko

IoTconsultancy.nl=C2=A0 |=C2=A0 Email/Skype: esko.dijk@iotconsultancy.nl



-----Original Message-----
From: core <c= ore-bounces@ietf.org> On Behalf Of Carsten Bormann
Sent: Monday, March 9, 2020 14:05
To: core <core@ietf.o= rg>
Cc: netmod@ietf.org
Subject: [core] =F0=9F=94=94 WG Last Call of CORECONF drafts: draft-ietf-co= re-yang-cbor-12, -sid-11, -comi-09, -yang-library-01

It took us a long time to get the four CORECONF drafts in sync,
but now we are ready for WGLC.

This starts a working group last call for
=E2=80=94 draft-ietf-core-yang-cbor-12
=E2=80=94 draft-ietf-core-sid-11
=E2=80=94 draft-ietf-core-comi-09
=E2=80=94 draft-ietf-core-yang-library-01

ending on

=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 24:00 UTC on Tuesday, March 31, 2020.

(This includes some extra time for the IETF week and for cross-WG
coordination.)

This WGLC is copied to the netmod WG mailing list; please do have a look at these drafts as they are slated to become a part of the greater
YANG/NETCONF/RESTCONF family.=C2=A0 We intend the discussion to be on the CoRE mailing list, but if you find a fundamental issue with YANG or
RESTCONF, feel free to discuss that on netmod instead.

Please start a new email thread for each major issue that will need
discussion and make sure the subject line includes the draft name and
some sort of name for the issue.=C2=A0 (Minor issues such as typos can also=
be sent to the authors.)

If you read the draft and think it looks fine, please send a one line
email to the list or to the chairs letting us know that so we can get
a feel of how broad the review has been.

(To reviewers and authors:)=C2=A0 If you are aware of any patent claims tha= t
might apply to systems that implement these drafts, please review BCP 78 and BCP 79 and make any appropriate IPR declaration before the last-call ends. If you are not sure whether you need to make a declaration or not, please talk to the chairs and we will help.

Gr=C3=BC=C3=9Fe, Carsten

_______________________________________________
core mailing list
core@ietf.org
https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/core
_______________________________________________
core mailing list
core@ietf.org
https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/core
--0000000000008424ed05a3544640-- From nobody Wed Apr 15 06:27:58 2020 Return-Path: X-Original-To: netmod@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: netmod@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id A5BF23A0795 for ; Wed, 15 Apr 2020 06:27:54 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.898 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.898 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=ackl-io.20150623.gappssmtp.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 2eSGpwicQeZu for ; Wed, 15 Apr 2020 06:27:52 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail-wr1-x433.google.com (mail-wr1-x433.google.com [IPv6:2a00:1450:4864:20::433]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 9ACBE3A082F for ; Wed, 15 Apr 2020 06:27:49 -0700 (PDT) Received: by mail-wr1-x433.google.com with SMTP id d27so9960886wra.1 for ; Wed, 15 Apr 2020 06:27:49 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=ackl-io.20150623.gappssmtp.com; s=20150623; h=mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date:message-id:subject:to; bh=MPsGZp5jkhumT8uMvLA60Hq3iygUFDHYDVfalIc/G1M=; b=b/nkBFHjBtUGCTwtQPGUNiC3AqeaiLhcbeP+O6tm+DXxmSFpOR/1vGsqGZzN3VVIP7 mfWj8V82aRJnv2fT13dGPV85GtLje3vQ4hL/iM6P3h8ltH69y43dE/Fey0AcARipjp4U bhbuxoIKRtPABavCFUGO+5UiaWZtCiZwINC4VEybor1ND6zYuFcRheaJsBdbo4yBo5X5 s49Z40pZdXVQww+hkfNQYsn+V6NnYDZTdfiZ0jesXmr+fIjb9Iu52MrFFVY+l/FAEmY3 uXV38QLa2mwpJ+cV2v0BEx5BExeJyKr/fnZ8XmKyBgUA6dWhInWfxol7gCcgCYBeiiPU Kt2Q== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date :message-id:subject:to; bh=MPsGZp5jkhumT8uMvLA60Hq3iygUFDHYDVfalIc/G1M=; b=h2WTmSodE5azANsUlpebobTOJwwTpRm8Y9OZdXZuiPb/dSNXgC0yqyW1qSw4ZHP7SJ 3KSwSDkz6EmkMaauFAHC8QOyX7WmlQi6NeIYEqINT1xmEJBajO5yrXgkLzsrXyxXBhjp Fmb8o6aHHCbXW5IsGpcIArKW6D4t4pKIfRntUopAY53UIP6Qg396hkHKIeyM6Mf6dnvj 6jMlkoFgaCYUsDmoOumi8BgfpwSmQt2zFCTuE+vghArJ1xlu1bgRNMBZswo7YLjW2xgN fo80HX2AjsRSqnZ6K/XYawRWf1B7sftSfpRMFWiqbKlgrDMrraMx5GxKnDj1cpgBxfKz F2FQ== X-Gm-Message-State: AGi0PubiYsN/7Gu1z2D3Ce5JqTUZLx+djMQQz5pYCRVxnAJUaV3mmuX+ 40PGGw5nv5/Nr6m6LIRYbTuN2QzrRLOMsoLmnQrqtw== X-Google-Smtp-Source: APiQypLbwlQH1/dAvHyIgldnMKLTXMwInP49WJ1CY75GDYuF1krgUmGfydI7XDBe8cI1E+2jnqIBFj6SiNCzlW0GB8U= X-Received: by 2002:adf:e681:: with SMTP id r1mr7645390wrm.213.1586957267803; Wed, 15 Apr 2020 06:27:47 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 References: <20200330213129.m2azrbeaxrtgivfc@anna.jacobs.jacobs-university.de> In-Reply-To: <20200330213129.m2azrbeaxrtgivfc@anna.jacobs.jacobs-university.de> From: Ivaylo Petrov Date: Wed, 15 Apr 2020 15:27:21 +0200 Message-ID: To: Juergen Schoenwaelder , core , NetMod WG Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="00000000000038b8e805a354486b" Archived-At: Subject: Re: [netmod] [core] js review of draft-ietf-core-sid-12 X-BeenThere: netmod@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: NETMOD WG list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 15 Apr 2020 13:27:57 -0000 --00000000000038b8e805a354486b Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Hello Juergen, Thank you for your review and your comments! They really help us improve this document. Please find my answers below (prefixed with [IP]). Note that the diff after handing your comments and those of Esko Dijk and Tom Petch can be found at [1]. Best regards, Ivaylo [1]: https://tools.ietf.org/rfcdiff?url1=draft-ietf-core-sid&url2=http://core-wg.github.io/yang-cbor/draft-ietf-core-sid-latest.txt On Mon, Mar 30, 2020 at 11:32 PM Juergen Schoenwaelder < j.schoenwaelder@jacobs-university.de> wrote: > Hi, > > I have reviewed draft-ietf-core-sid-12. I will try to review yang-cbor > tomorrow as well. (I am probably more interested in CBOR encoding for > RESTCONF than the usage of CoAP itself, hence my priority on these two > IDs under last call.) > > - Avoid the use of the word 'template', which is not a well defined > term and may be used with varying interpretations. > > o data nodes (Note: including those parts of a YANG template as > defined by the 'yang-data' extension.) > > It is not clear to me what is meant with "those parts of a YANG > template as defined by the 'yang-data' extension." I think this > could benefit from a rewording. > [IP]: Reworded. - The ID seems to assume that semantics of yang items never change. > This is true so far but NETMOD has chartered work that might change > this property. So what happens if the semantics of a YANG item > changes? > > SIDs are assigned permanently, items introduced by a new revision of > a YANG module are added to the list of SIDs already assigned. > > If a YANG module changes in a non-backwards compatible way, I assume > a new sid range must be allocated? Strictly speaking, this question > does not have to be answered today but it very likely needs an > answer in the future... > [IP]: We will not be able to clearly answer this before there is more information how the YANG items semantics can change. For now it looks like assigning new range would be a good solution, but maybe there will be some other solutions that will be even more optimal. What looks logical is that at least every semantic of an item should have a separate SID. - The definition of 'path' is not very precise, i.e., it does not > spell out how module namespaces work, only by example.. I do not > know whether a definition can be imported from somewhere. > [IP]: I tried to improve it. Please let me know if now it is clear enough. - s/RESCONF/RESTCONF/ > [IP]: Fixed. - Is it CoRECONF or CORECONF? And I find the term CORECONF confusing. > We have two protocols called NETCONF and RESTCONF and now we add > another protocol called CoMI and we call CoMI together with YANG > CBOR and SIDs CORECONF? > > 1) NETCONF + YANG + XML serialization + path naming -> ? > 2) RESTCONF + YANG + XML|JSON serialization + path naming -> ? > 3) CoMI + YANG + CBOR serialization + SID naming -> CORECONF > > We do not have a term for 1) and 2) and then we have a term for 3) > which, however, looks more like the protocol names used in 1) and > 2). This comment is not specific to this ID, but the asymmetry > showed up while reading the SID document, I had to look at other IDs > to understand how things are named. And the SID document says > > YANG is a language designed to model data accessed using one of the > compatible protocols (e.g. NETCONF [RFC6241], RESCONF [RFC8040] and > CoRECONF [I-D.ietf-core-comi]). > > Then I read the CoMI abstract. It first says CoMI is "a CoAP > Management Interface", it then says "The complete solution composed > of CoMI, [I-D.ietf-core-yang-cbor] and [I-D.ietf-core-sid] is called > CORECONF." and finally it states that "CORECONF extends the set of > YANG based protocols, NETCONF and RESTCONF, with the capability to > manage constrained devices and networks.". So I am confused, is > CORECONF a protocol as stated in this document? Or is CoMI a > protocol? (What is then the difference between a "Management > Interface" and a management protocol?) I am not sure whether I get > to review comi, hence I mention my confusion here as I hit it while > reviewing the sid document. > [IP]: Currently this is indeed somewhat confusing. The proposed change from Michael Richardson was to at least have CORECONF in the title of the CoMI document. I am wondering if that might still leave some of the confusion. For me the simple solution is in this document to refer to CoMI, not CORECONF and let CoMI draft define what CORECONF actually is. Unless you think this will still not resolve the issue, this is going to be my way forward. - This description makes little sense to me: > > typedef sid-file-version-identifier { > type uint64; > description > "Optional attribute that gives information about the .sid file > version."; > } > > This is a type definition. Why does the description talk about an > optional attribute? The type should not state whether something > using the type is optional or not. (And I would prefer to avoid > 'attribute', better use YANG defined terms or just describe that > this type represents a version number for a SID file.) > [IP]: I believe now it should be more clear. - sid range - was it not said before that it is 63 bits? Is the idea > that sids with the highest bit set are legal but undefined or > reserved? Or should there be a range restriction? > > typedef sid { > type uint64; > description > "YANG Schema Item iDentifier"; > reference > "[I-D.ietf-core-sid] YANG Schema Item iDentifier (SID)"; > } > [IP]: I set the range accordingly. - schema-node-path > > "Identifies a schema-node path string for use in the > SID registry. This string format follows the rules > for an instance-identifier, as defined in RFC 7959, > except that no predicates are allowed. > > RFC 7959 seems to be a typo, I assume you mean RFC 7951 > [IP]: Yes, thank you for spotting this! s/Identifies a schema-node path string/A schema-node path" > > It is a bit confusing to define a schema-node path by way of > reference to an instance identifier. I understand that you borrow > the namespace encoding from the way JSON encode instance identifiers > but this type really represents what RFC 7950 calls an absolute > schema node identifier, no? Is the term schema-node path actually > needed or is it the same as absolute schema node identifier? Or is > the difference between the two how namespaces are represented? > [IP]: I might have misunderstood something, but my understanding is that the prefix related to a module could be changed during an import, whereas here we really want to use the module name as a more stable identifier. The difference between absolute schema node identifier and schema-node path is that we mandate the use of module name and not prefix as defined in RFC 7950. - dependency-revision > > list dependency-revision { > key "module-name"; > > description > "Information about the revision of each YANG module that the > module in > 'module-name' includes used during the .sid file generation."; > > The sentence can probably be rewritten to make it clearer. > > Are the SIDs assigned to a module dependent on the modules listed > in the 'dependency-revision'? (Is this a good name for the list?) > Why is it necessary to know which revisions were used to resolve > imports without revision? > [IP]: I reformulated it to Information about the used revision during the .sid file generation of each YANG module that the module in 'module-name' imported. The idea is that if this information is not available later on and different versions of the modules are used, slightly different results might be produced due to augmented items for example. - Please avoid wrapped entry point numbers in the table in 6.3.3. > [IP]: Fixed. - The handling of early allocations sounds complex, I have some doubts > this process will work in practice... > [IP]: We are working on reformulating it in a more precise manner. - Incomplete sentence: > > RFC7120] also says > > Or is the following paragraph a quote? In that case, add a colon. > > - There are likely more normative references, e.g., RFC 6991 and RFC > 8040. > [IP]: Fixed. - Why does the example in appendix A not have / need > dependency-revisions? > [IP]: Added now. - I have not run any tools to validate things. I just read the I-D. > /js > > -- > Juergen Schoenwaelder Jacobs University Bremen gGmbH > Phone: +49 421 200 3587 Campus Ring 1 | 28759 Bremen | Germany > Fax: +49 421 200 3103 > > _______________________________________________ > core mailing list > core@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/core > --00000000000038b8e805a354486b Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Hello J= uergen,

Thank you for your review and your c= omments! They really help us improve this document. Please find my answers = below (prefixed with [IP]). Note that the diff after handing your comments = and those of Esko Dijk and Tom Petch can be found at [1].

Best regar= ds,
Ivaylo

[1]: = https://tools.ietf.org/rfcdiff?url1=3Ddraft-ietf-core-sid&am= p;url2=3Dhttp://core-wg.github.io/yang-cbor/draft-ietf-core-sid-latest.txt<= /a>

Hi,

I have reviewed draft-ietf-core-sid-12. I will try to review yang-cbor
tomorrow as well. (I am probably more interested in CBOR encoding for
RESTCONF than the usage of CoAP itself, hence my priority on these two
IDs under last call.)

- Avoid the use of the word 'template', which is not a well defined=
=C2=A0 term and may be used with varying interpretations.

=C2=A0 =C2=A0o=C2=A0 data nodes (Note: including those parts of a YANG temp= late as
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 defined by the 'yang-data' extension.)

=C2=A0 It is not clear to me what is meant with "those parts of a YANG=
=C2=A0 template as defined by the 'yang-data' extension." I th= ink this
=C2=A0 could benefit from a rewording.

[IP]: Reworded.

- The ID seems to assume that semantics of yang items never change.
=C2=A0 This is true so far but NETMOD has chartered work that might change<= br> =C2=A0 this property. So what happens if the semantics of a YANG item
=C2=A0 changes?

=C2=A0 =C2=A0SIDs are assigned permanently, items introduced by a new revis= ion of
=C2=A0 =C2=A0a YANG module are added to the list of SIDs already assigned.<= br>
=C2=A0 If a YANG module changes in a non-backwards compatible way, I assume=
=C2=A0 a new sid range must be allocated? Strictly speaking, this question<= br> =C2=A0 does not have to be answered today but it very likely needs an
=C2=A0 answer in the future...

[IP]:= =C2=A0We will not be able to clearly answer this before there is mor= e information how the YANG items semantics can change. For now it looks lik= e assigning new range would be a good solution, but maybe there will be som= e other solutions that will be even more optimal. What looks logical is tha= t at least every semantic of an item should have a separate SID.

- The definition of 'path' is not very precise, i.e., it does not =C2=A0 spell out how module namespaces work, only by example.. I do not
=C2=A0 know whether a definition can be imported from somewhere.

[IP]: = I tried to improve it. Please let me know if now it is clear enough.
- s/RESCONF/RESTCONF/

[IP]: Fixed.

- Is it CoRECONF or CORECONF? And I find the term CORECONF confusing.
=C2=A0 We have two protocols called NETCONF and RESTCONF and now we add
=C2=A0 another protocol called CoMI and we call CoMI together with YANG
=C2=A0 CBOR and SIDs CORECONF?

=C2=A0 1) NETCONF=C2=A0 + YANG + XML=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 serialization + pa= th naming -> ?
=C2=A0 2) RESTCONF + YANG + XML|JSON serialization + path naming -> ? =C2=A0 3) CoMI=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0+ YANG + CBOR=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0serializ= ation + SID naming=C2=A0 -> CORECONF

=C2=A0 We do not have a term for 1) and 2) and then we have a term for 3) =C2=A0 which, however, looks more like the protocol names used in 1) and =C2=A0 2). This comment is not specific to this ID, but the asymmetry
=C2=A0 showed up while reading the SID document, I had to look at other IDs=
=C2=A0 to understand how things are named. And the SID document says

=C2=A0 =C2=A0YANG is a language designed to model data accessed using one o= f the
=C2=A0 =C2=A0compatible protocols (e.g.=C2=A0 NETCONF [RFC6241], RESCONF [R= FC8040] and
=C2=A0 =C2=A0CoRECONF [I-D.ietf-core-comi]).

=C2=A0 Then I read the CoMI abstract. It first says CoMI is "a CoAP =C2=A0 Management Interface", it then says "The complete solution= composed
=C2=A0 of CoMI, [I-D.ietf-core-yang-cbor] and [I-D.ietf-core-sid] is called=
=C2=A0 CORECONF." and finally it states that "CORECONF extends th= e set of
=C2=A0 YANG based protocols, NETCONF and RESTCONF, with the capability to =C2=A0 manage constrained devices and networks.". So I am confused, is=
=C2=A0 CORECONF a protocol as stated in this document? Or is CoMI a
=C2=A0 protocol? (What is then the difference between a "Management =C2=A0 Interface" and a management protocol?) I am not sure whether I = get
=C2=A0 to review comi, hence I mention my confusion here as I hit it while<= br> =C2=A0 reviewing the sid document.

[IP]: Currently this is indeed somewhat confusing. The propo= sed change from Michael Richardson was to at least have CORECONF in the tit= le of the CoMI document. I am wondering if that might still leave some of t= he confusion. For me the simple solution is in this document to refer to Co= MI, not CORECONF and let CoMI draft define what CORECONF actually is. Unles= s you think this will still not resolve the issue, this is going to be my w= ay forward.

- This description makes little sense to me:

=C2=A0 typedef sid-file-version-identifier {
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 type uint64;
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 description
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 "Optional attribute that gives information about = the .sid file
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0version.";
=C2=A0 }

=C2=A0 This is a type definition. Why does the description talk about an =C2=A0 optional attribute? The type should not state whether something
=C2=A0 using the type is optional or not. (And I would prefer to avoid
=C2=A0 'attribute', better use YANG defined terms or just describe = that
=C2=A0 this type represents a version number for a SID file.)

[IP]: I believe now it shoul= d be more clear.

- sid range - was it not said before that it is 63 bits? Is the idea
=C2=A0 that sids with the highest bit set are legal but undefined or
=C2=A0 reserved?=C2=A0 Or should there be a range restriction?

=C2=A0 typedef sid {
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 type uint64;
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 description
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 "YANG Schema Item iDentifier";
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 reference
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 "[I-D.ietf-core-sid] YANG Schema Item iDentifier = (SID)";
=C2=A0 }

[IP]: I set= the range accordingly.

- schema-node-path

=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 "Identifies a schema-node path string for use in = the
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0SID registry. This string format follows the rul= es
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0for an instance-identifier, as defined in RFC 79= 59,
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0except that no predicates are allowed.

=C2=A0 RFC 7959 seems to be a typo, I assume you mean RFC 7951

[IP]: Yes, thank you for spotting this!

=C2=A0 s/Identifies a schema-node path string/A schema-node path"

=C2=A0 It is a bit confusing to define a schema-node path by way of
=C2=A0 reference to an instance identifier. I understand that you borrow =C2=A0 the namespace encoding from the way JSON encode instance identifiers=
=C2=A0 but this type really represents what RFC 7950 calls an absolute
=C2=A0 schema node identifier, no? Is the term schema-node path actually =C2=A0 needed or is it the same as absolute schema node identifier? Or is =C2=A0 the difference between the two how namespaces are represented?

[IP]: I might have misund= erstood something, but my understanding is that the prefix related to a mod= ule could be changed during an import, whereas here we really want to use t= he module name as a more stable identifier. The difference between absolute= schema node identifier and schema-node path is that we mandate the use of = module name and not prefix as defined in RFC 7950.

- dependency-revision

=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 list dependency-revision {
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 key "module-name";

=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 description
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 "Information about the revision of = each YANG module that the
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 module in
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 'module-name' includes used duri= ng the .sid file generation.";

=C2=A0 =C2=A0The sentence can probably be rewritten to make it clearer.

=C2=A0 =C2=A0Are the SIDs assigned to a module dependent on the modules lis= ted
=C2=A0 =C2=A0in the 'dependency-revision'? (Is this a good name for= the list?)
=C2=A0 =C2=A0Why is it necessary to know which revisions were used to resol= ve
=C2=A0 =C2=A0imports without revision?
=C2=A0
[IP]: I reformulated it to

Information about the used revision during the .sid file generation
of each YANG module that the module in 'module-name' impo= rted.

The idea is that if this information is not av= ailable later on and different versions of the modules are used, slightly d= ifferent results might be produced due to augmented=C2=A0<= /span>items=C2=A0for example.

- Please avoid wrapped entry point numbers in the table in 6.3.3.

[IP]: Fixed.

- The handling of early allocations sounds complex, I have some doubts
=C2=A0 this process will work in practice...

[IP]: We are working on reformulating it in a more= precise manner.

=
- Incomplete sentence:

=C2=A0 RFC7120] also says

=C2=A0 Or is the following paragraph a quote? In that case, add a colon.
- There are likely more normative references, e.g., RFC 6991 and RFC
=C2=A0 8040.

[IP]: Fixed.
=
- Why does the example in appendix A not have / need
=C2=A0 dependency-revisions?

[IP]: Added now.

- I have not run any tools to validate things. I just read the I-D.=C2=A0

/js

--
Juergen Schoenwaelder=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0Jacobs Univer= sity Bremen gGmbH
Phone: +49 421 200 3587=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0Campus Ring 1 | 28= 759 Bremen | Germany
Fax:=C2=A0 =C2=A0+49 421 200 3103=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0<https://www.jacobs-university.de/>

_______________________________________________
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Wed, 15 Apr 2020 16:20:55 +0000 Date: Wed, 15 Apr 2020 18:20:54 +0200 From: Juergen Schoenwaelder To: Ivaylo Petrov Cc: core , NetMod WG Message-ID: <20200415162054.s4bjcrienqvrytfz@anna.jacobs.jacobs-university.de> Reply-To: Juergen Schoenwaelder Mail-Followup-To: Ivaylo Petrov , core , NetMod WG References: <20200330213129.m2azrbeaxrtgivfc@anna.jacobs.jacobs-university.de> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: X-ClientProxiedBy: AM0P190CA0004.EURP190.PROD.OUTLOOK.COM (2603:10a6:208:190::14) To AM0P190MB0707.EURP190.PROD.OUTLOOK.COM (2603:10a6:208:196::24) MIME-Version: 1.0 X-MS-Exchange-MessageSentRepresentingType: 1 Received: from localhost (2001:638:709:5::7) by AM0P190CA0004.EURP190.PROD.OUTLOOK.COM (2603:10a6:208:190::14) with Microsoft SMTP Server (version=TLS1_2, cipher=TLS_ECDHE_RSA_WITH_AES_256_GCM_SHA384) id 15.20.2921.25 via Frontend Transport; Wed, 15 Apr 2020 16:20:55 +0000 X-Originating-IP: [2001:638:709:5::7] X-MS-PublicTrafficType: Email X-MS-Office365-Filtering-Correlation-Id: 2a14954d-cab0-419e-a63b-08d7e158f96a X-MS-TrafficTypeDiagnostic: AM0P190MB0626: X-MS-Exchange-Transport-Forked: True X-Microsoft-Antispam-PRVS: X-MS-Oob-TLC-OOBClassifiers: OLM:10000; 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So what happens if the semantics of a YANG item > > changes? > > > > SIDs are assigned permanently, items introduced by a new revision of > > a YANG module are added to the list of SIDs already assigned. > > > > If a YANG module changes in a non-backwards compatible way, I assume > > a new sid range must be allocated? Strictly speaking, this question > > does not have to be answered today but it very likely needs an > > answer in the future... > > > > [IP]: We will not be able to clearly answer this before there is more > information how the YANG items semantics can change. For now it looks like > assigning new range would be a good solution, but maybe there will be some > other solutions that will be even more optimal. What looks logical is that > at least every semantic of an item should have a separate SID. Yes and this will impact the SID document since SIDs are going to be specific to a (module, path, version) triple. > - Is it CoRECONF or CORECONF? And I find the term CORECONF confusing. > > We have two protocols called NETCONF and RESTCONF and now we add > > another protocol called CoMI and we call CoMI together with YANG > > CBOR and SIDs CORECONF? > > > > 1) NETCONF + YANG + XML serialization + path naming -> ? > > 2) RESTCONF + YANG + XML|JSON serialization + path naming -> ? > > 3) CoMI + YANG + CBOR serialization + SID naming -> CORECONF > > > > We do not have a term for 1) and 2) and then we have a term for 3) > > which, however, looks more like the protocol names used in 1) and > > 2). This comment is not specific to this ID, but the asymmetry > > showed up while reading the SID document, I had to look at other IDs > > to understand how things are named. And the SID document says > > > > YANG is a language designed to model data accessed using one of the > > compatible protocols (e.g. NETCONF [RFC6241], RESCONF [RFC8040] and > > CoRECONF [I-D.ietf-core-comi]). > > > > Then I read the CoMI abstract. It first says CoMI is "a CoAP > > Management Interface", it then says "The complete solution composed > > of CoMI, [I-D.ietf-core-yang-cbor] and [I-D.ietf-core-sid] is called > > CORECONF." and finally it states that "CORECONF extends the set of > > YANG based protocols, NETCONF and RESTCONF, with the capability to > > manage constrained devices and networks.". So I am confused, is > > CORECONF a protocol as stated in this document? Or is CoMI a > > protocol? (What is then the difference between a "Management > > Interface" and a management protocol?) I am not sure whether I get > > to review comi, hence I mention my confusion here as I hit it while > > reviewing the sid document. > > > > [IP]: Currently this is indeed somewhat confusing. The proposed change from > Michael Richardson was to at least have CORECONF in the title of the CoMI > document. I am wondering if that might still leave some of the confusion. > For me the simple solution is in this document to refer to CoMI, not > CORECONF and let CoMI draft define what CORECONF actually is. Unless you > think this will still not resolve the issue, this is going to be my way > forward. Avoiding CORECONF in this document helps to limit the problem. If CoMI is the name of the protocol, I would hope we do not need CORECONF at all. But then CORECONF is all over the place in draft-ietf-core-comi-09.txt, it actually looks like the protocol is called CORECONF and not CoMI. I really believe this terminology confusion needs to be resolved in the WG so the WG actually knows and agrees on the name of the technology they standardize. > - This description makes little sense to me: > > > > typedef sid-file-version-identifier { > > type uint64; > > description > > "Optional attribute that gives information about the .sid file > > version."; > > } > > > > This is a type definition. Why does the description talk about an > > optional attribute? The type should not state whether something > > using the type is optional or not. (And I would prefer to avoid > > 'attribute', better use YANG defined terms or just describe that > > this type represents a version number for a SID file.) > > > > [IP]: I believe now it should be more clear. Yes. I wonder though, is this a simple linear counter? Or can it be anything as long as newer > older is satisfied? Or is this just a tag that needs to match and it does not imply any order semantics? > s/Identifies a schema-node path string/A schema-node path" > > > > It is a bit confusing to define a schema-node path by way of > > reference to an instance identifier. I understand that you borrow > > the namespace encoding from the way JSON encode instance identifiers > > but this type really represents what RFC 7950 calls an absolute > > schema node identifier, no? Is the term schema-node path actually > > needed or is it the same as absolute schema node identifier? Or is > > the difference between the two how namespaces are represented? > > > > [IP]: I might have misunderstood something, but my understanding is that > the prefix related to a module could be changed during an import, whereas > here we really want to use the module name as a more stable identifier. The > difference between absolute schema node identifier and schema-node path is > that we mandate the use of module name and not prefix as defined in RFC > 7950. Well, what you model here is an absolute schema node path, except that prefixes are replaced by module names. Note that refering to instance-identifier as defined in RFC 7951 has the problem, the RFC 7951 definition of an instance-identifier also includes prefixes instead of module names. /js -- Juergen Schoenwaelder Jacobs University Bremen gGmbH Phone: +49 421 200 3587 Campus Ring 1 | 28759 Bremen | Germany Fax: +49 421 200 3103 From nobody Thu Apr 16 11:00:51 2020 Return-Path: <0100017184266afe-e801bf9c-22df-4da6-97ed-68efa66cb8cf-000000@amazonses.watsen.net> X-Original-To: netmod@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: netmod@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8FB673A0A54 for ; Thu, 16 Apr 2020 11:00:49 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.897 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.897 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_NONE=0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (1024-bit key) header.d=amazonses.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id AsanG3YdyB6O for ; Thu, 16 Apr 2020 11:00:44 -0700 (PDT) Received: from a8-96.smtp-out.amazonses.com (a8-96.smtp-out.amazonses.com [54.240.8.96]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 92C763A0A4D for ; Thu, 16 Apr 2020 11:00:44 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; q=dns/txt; c=relaxed/simple; s=224i4yxa5dv7c2xz3womw6peuasteono; d=amazonses.com; t=1587060043; h=From:Content-Type:Mime-Version:Subject:Date:References:To:In-Reply-To:Message-Id:Feedback-ID; bh=ougsDYe+an8udMJK6RjBU3C6biRkqdFtaTFL1GFXHow=; b=g8Blqdfsdevlz3t0+sOpTjlDhHTnpcFaSXYxCO2Fkgwp8bdCyuxRbaGe0W6i/AE/ lbBMKuIa3rFzioXD5nULO61HtTZXPoMftxi4UqjU1x7NmxxGHAXJJCOAaSaBQgzr3A5 VSPolf2gpzt2A2Yf8CZs6iKYyOgVSi4N1fRwbqmw= From: Kent Watsen Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="Apple-Mail=_5B536A7C-307F-4A38-9AD0-AFA880D37BB1" Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 12.4 \(3445.104.11\)) Date: Thu, 16 Apr 2020 18:00:42 +0000 References: <0100017179f09d7a-148dd8da-b5ff-494e-b77c-b13c5caa117c-000000@email.amazonses.com> To: "netmod@ietf.org" In-Reply-To: <0100017179f09d7a-148dd8da-b5ff-494e-b77c-b13c5caa117c-000000@email.amazonses.com> Message-ID: <0100017184266afe-e801bf9c-22df-4da6-97ed-68efa66cb8cf-000000@email.amazonses.com> X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.3445.104.11) X-SES-Outgoing: 2020.04.16-54.240.8.96 Feedback-ID: 1.us-east-1.DKmIRZFhhsBhtmFMNikgwZUWVrODEw9qVcPhqJEI2DA=:AmazonSES Archived-At: Subject: Re: [netmod] YANG Versioning weekly meeting (not a VI!) X-BeenThere: netmod@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: NETMOD WG list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 16 Apr 2020 18:00:50 -0000 --Apple-Mail=_5B536A7C-307F-4A38-9AD0-AFA880D37BB1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Updated ICS file attached...now the 15-minute start alarm should be set. 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=09=09=09= =20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20 \;=09=09=09=09=09= =09=09=09=09Need=20help?=20Go=20to=20http://help.webex.com=09=09=09=09=09=09=09= =09=09=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20 \;=09=09=09=09= =09=09=0D=0ASUMMARY:YANG=20Versioning=0D=0A= LAST-MODIFIED:20200416T174539Z=0D=0A= DTSTART;TZID=3DAmerica/Scoresbysund:20200414T130000=0D=0A= CREATED:20200414T163150Z=0D=0A= RRULE:FREQ=3DWEEKLY;INTERVAL=3D1;UNTIL=3D20200811T140000Z;BYDAY=3DTU=0D=0A= BEGIN:VALARM=0D=0AX-WR-ALARMUID:55A190FE-533F-48CC-9563-CD24226D8FF6=0D=0A= UID:55A190FE-533F-48CC-9563-CD24226D8FF6=0D=0ATRIGGER:-PT15M=0D=0A= ATTACH;VALUE=3DURI:Chord=0D=0AACTION:AUDIO=0D=0AEND:VALARM=0D=0A= END:VEVENT=0D=0AEND:VCALENDAR=0D=0A= --Apple-Mail=_5B536A7C-307F-4A38-9AD0-AFA880D37BB1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii > On Apr 14, 2020, at 2:25 PM, Kent Watsen wrote: >=20 >=20 > For those interested in participating in discussions on the YANG = Versioning set of drafts, the following weekly 1-hour meeting has been = created by request of the authors for that purpose. >=20 > ICS file attached (includes a 15-minute alarm) >=20 > PS: this is NOT a virtual interim! >=20 > Kent // as co-chair >=20 >=20 >=20 >=20 > YANG Versioning > Scheduled: Apr 14, 2020 at 9:00 AM to 10:00 AM > Location: https://ietf.webex.com/ietf > Invitees: NETMOD Working Group >=20 >=20 > JOIN WEBEX MEETING > = https://ietf.webex.com/ietf/j.php?MTID=3Dm2c561452450cf19d54e91c84b70c14cc= > Meeting number (access code): 617 633 719 > Meeting password: Pm2SJHakZ23 >=20 >=20 > JOIN BY PHONE > 1-650-479-3208 Call-in toll number (US/Canada)=20 > Tap here to call (mobile phones only, hosts not supported): = tel:%2B1-650-479-3208,,*01*617633719%23%23*01* >=20 > 1-877-668-4493 Call-in toll free number (US/Canada)=20 > Tap here to call (mobile phones only, hosts not supported): = tel:1-877-668-4493,,*01*617633719%23%23*01* >=20 > Global call-in numbers: > = https://ietf.webex.com/ietf/globalcallin.php?MTID=3Dm760b4453ad872ad0c5979= 9278e28ae64 >=20 > Toll-free dialing restrictions:=20 > https://www.webex.com/pdf/tollfree_restrictions.pdf >=20 >=20 > JOIN FROM A VIDEO SYSTEM OR APPLICATION > Dial sip:617633719@ietf.webex.com > You can also dial 173.243.2.68 and enter your meeting number. >=20 >=20 > Join using Microsoft Lync or Microsoft Skype for Business > Dial sip:617633719.ietf@lync.webex.com >=20 >=20 >=20 > Can't join the meeting? 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You should inform all meeting attendees = prior to recording if you intend to record the meeting. >=20 >=20 >=20 >=20 > >=20 >=20 >=20 > _______________________________________________ > netmod mailing list > netmod@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/netmod --Apple-Mail=_5B536A7C-307F-4A38-9AD0-AFA880D37BB1-- From nobody Thu Apr 16 17:55:48 2020 Return-Path: <0100017185a2541e-61dba8d4-656b-49c5-bc64-d9e3145953e7-000000@amazonses.watsen.net> X-Original-To: netmod@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: netmod@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0C8893A14B3 for ; Thu, 16 Apr 2020 17:55:47 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.896 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.896 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_NONE=0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (1024-bit key) header.d=amazonses.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id yosS9Wg2-XZf for ; Thu, 16 Apr 2020 17:55:42 -0700 (PDT) Received: from a48-92.smtp-out.amazonses.com (a48-92.smtp-out.amazonses.com [54.240.48.92]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id B1C4D3A14AD for ; Thu, 16 Apr 2020 17:55:41 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; q=dns/txt; c=relaxed/simple; s=224i4yxa5dv7c2xz3womw6peuasteono; d=amazonses.com; t=1587084940; h=From:Message-Id:Content-Type:Mime-Version:Subject:Date:In-Reply-To:Cc:To:References:Feedback-ID; bh=JAGeVpiSVQ+0NK1gt6X6f9UJD5kU7jr2pB7yzC2G0fE=; b=fLTsg7FhkWbCTt2Q8elD2fAk0pJhZhL42SlxU7anP/89KUsrgCHgcrCl4KCpzqcO FPg0qpGc2yCjqM4RdUglbPVcRgs/kj9dkeg/tEieCd6f/Kbyw3T3Z3wnu9lvGMUgCOk ylHLaWiQ0OhDL4Bx20lGNKa6v7AXOgvnxp3eHHD0= From: Kent Watsen Message-ID: <0100017185a2541e-61dba8d4-656b-49c5-bc64-d9e3145953e7-000000@email.amazonses.com> Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="Apple-Mail=_6D2FBDEB-0B65-4308-98AF-98B45AC7CDCD" Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 12.4 \(3445.104.11\)) Date: Fri, 17 Apr 2020 00:55:40 +0000 In-Reply-To: Cc: "netmod@ietf.org" To: =?utf-8?Q?Bal=C3=A1zs_Lengyel?= References: <010001712ce4c5fe-04a059c3-ced3-4e6d-8389-5dd7c1257ac2-000000@email.amazonses.com> <010001712e483a1b-204d92e3-7046-46fb-b6b8-13d8ad4cb9ff-000000@email.amazonses.com> <0100017160917518-a18954f3-8e57-4286-904a-5a3e9779ff31-000000@email.amazonses.com> X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.3445.104.11) X-SES-Outgoing: 2020.04.17-54.240.48.92 Feedback-ID: 1.us-east-1.DKmIRZFhhsBhtmFMNikgwZUWVrODEw9qVcPhqJEI2DA=:AmazonSES Archived-At: Subject: Re: [netmod] Shepherd review on draft-ietf-netmod-yang-instance-file-format-10 X-BeenThere: netmod@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: NETMOD WG list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 17 Apr 2020 00:55:48 -0000 --Apple-Mail=_6D2FBDEB-0B65-4308-98AF-98B45AC7CDCD Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Hi Balazs, > P.S. Kent, if further edits are needed, shall I do them via new = uploaded versions, or shall I just send the update for checking to you? I prefer uploaded versions so I (everyone) can easily see the diffs and = verify the changes made. Thanks for asking. > Because it=E2=80=99s a working group document now and so uses the = =E2=80=9Cietf=E2=80=9D prefix. Try this: > =20 > =20 > BALAZS2: OK, thanks Np > - S5 contains an mix of important and unimportant information. I = think that the most important thing to state that the module defines an = offline format that MAY contain security sensitive information, and thus = safe handling is advised. Maybe also say something about because the = YANG module only defines a =E2=80=9Cstructure=E2=80=9D, the Security = Considerations doesn=E2=80=99t follow the template specified in = https://tools.ietf.org/html/rfc8407#section-3.7.1 = ). For instance: = s/is designed as a wrapper specifying a format and a metadata header for = YANG instance data defined by the content-schema/specifies an offline = format/ > BALAZS: Most of text was required to be put there by earlier reviewers = (Mostly Juergen and Acee Lindem) and sent to the mailing list. > I added that we do not follow the security template for YANG models. > =20 > Please add the reference to = https://tools.ietf.org/html/rfc8407#section-3.7.1 = per above. > BALAZS2: OK Thx > - S8.1: agreed that RFC8525 is Normative, but the only place it it = referenced is in a non-normative section=E2=80=A6please add a ref to it = from a normative section. > BALAZS: It is referenced from the YANG module which is normative. > =20 > You just added that reference, but not correctly: > 1) the =E2=80=9Creference=E2=80=9D doesn=E2=80=99t follow the = standard format > 2) the paragraph at the top of 3.2 doesn=E2=80=99t also list RFC = 8525 > BALAZS2: OK, corrected Getting there=E2=80=A6 A) OLD: The first item is either ietf-yang-library NEW: The first module listed MUST either 'ietf-yang-library=E2=80=99, = from RFC 8525, B)=20 OLD: This YANG module imports typedefs from [RFC6991], identities from [RFC8342] and the "structure" extension from [I-D.ietf-netmod-yang-data-ext]. It also references [RFC8525]. NEW: This YANG module imports typedefs from [RFC6991], identities from [RFC8342], and the "structure" extension from [I-D.ietf-netmod-yang-data-ext]. It also references [RFC8525] in a =E2=80=9Cdescription=E2=80=9D statement.. > - Appendix B: > - s/For instance data/Instance data/ > BALAZS: Sorry, that would make the sentence incorrect. > =20 > Do you mean it to be =E2=80=9CFor instance, data=E2=80=9D then? If = =E2=80=9Cinstance data=E2=80=9D is supposed to be read together, maybe = use a hyphen or quotes? > BALAZS2: OK, added quotes Thank you! (I hope you see now how confusing that was to read = before=E2=80=A6) > - the syntax grammar used in S3, P8 doesn=E2=80=99t make sense - use = ABNF? > BALAZS:=20 > =20 > Please fix the grammar. > =20 > BALAZS2: OK, Updated grammar. That grammar excludes the possibility of using CBOR, which is indicated = as possible in S2, P3... Also, isn=E2=80=99t this now the case? OLD: The name of the instance data file SHOULD be of the form: NEW: The name of the instance data file MUST be of the form, defined = using ABNF [RFC5234]: - and be sure to add a Normative reference to RFC 5234 > - In S3, P8: =E2=80=9Cthe semicolons and the decimal point, if = present, shall be replaced by underscores=E2=80=9D - why are they not = escaped? > BALAZS: This is a file name. Escaping in file names does not always = work (depending on the filesystem and tools used). This is more simple = and understandable > =20 > No, this is a special case CLR and we never do this. I see this idea = has been in the document since -03, so it must=E2=80=99ve bee discussed, = can you point me to the discussion?=20 > =20 > FWIW, my OS doesn=E2=80=99t even require escaping colons. BTW, = they=E2=80=99re =E2=80=9Ccolons=E2=80=9D (not semicolons). > BALAZS2: Windows doesn=E2=80=99t allow colons in the filename. = Although it=E2=80=99s not everyone=E2=80=99s favorite OS, it is pretty = widespread.=20 Understood, but that doesn=E2=80=99t explain why escapes can=E2=80=99t = work. Please explain. > For Ubuntu Linux and a bash shell the colon is allowed, but tab = extension does not work properly. On Bash: $ touch a:b $ ls a ---> replaces =E2=80=9Ca=E2=80=9D with "a\:b=E2=80=9D = a:b Seems regular to me=E2=80=A6what=E2=80=99s the problem? > Sorry, I don=E2=80=99t remember any discussion on this. Timestamps = were discussed, but I don=E2=80=99t find any arguments about this = substitution. > Changed semicolon->colon Excellent. > - It is unclear how the "inline-content-schema=E2=80=9D feature could = ever be used. I.e., there are no protocol-accessible nodes in the = module=E2=80=A6 > BALAZS: The system can declare in supported/not-supported in design = documentation. E.g. in UC2, Preloading Default Configuration the = designer preparing instance data, can decide to use or not use the = inline-content-schema based on this. > =20 > When I make statements like this, please see it as an opportunity to = improve the document. In this case, please modify the = inline-content-schema=E2=80=99s =E2=80=9Cdescription=E2=80=9D statement = to indicate that the feature is never supported by a server, and that it = is intended to be enabled via out-of-band documentation. BTW, was this = discussed by the WG? > BALAZS2: It was discussed that this inline-content-schema seems = complicated, so it should not be mandatory. After this I introduced the = feature. AFAIK no discussion after this. > Actually it might be supported by a server:=20 > preloading configuration data: the server may or may not be able the = inline-content-schema. The designers preparing the instance data sets to = be loaded onto the server may use this declaration as a design guide > if a server also produces instance data files (e.g. UC5 Storing = diagnostics data), and I am writing a post-processing tool to handle = these files, I would use the support for this feature as an input = requirement: does my tool need to support inline-content-schema > While the server will probably not declare support for the = ietf-yang-instance-data module and this feature, the support of the = statement about feature support would be available in the product = documentation. > I changed the description to=20 > feature inline-content-schema { > description > "This feature indicates that inline content-schema =20 > option is supported. Support for this feature might=20 > be documented only via out-of-band documentation."; > } > Is that OK? Yes, but please s/inline content-schema option/=E2=80=98inline=E2=80=99 = case of the 'content-schema=E2=80=99 container/ > - "leaf-list inline-module" is "min-elements 1=E2=80=9D and = "ordered-by user=E2=80=9D, but "leaf-list module=E2=80=9D has neither = (though it may be that ordering is irrelevant for simple-inline). > BALAZS: ordered-by removed. It doesn't really mean anything. In this = case there is no chance of the system reordering a list a = CLI/Netconf/Restconf client provided. > Min-elements is not needed for simplified-inline as the case will only = be selected if there is at least one "module" leaf-list entry. It is = needed for inline because otherwise the case could contain an " = inline-schema" anydata section and no "inline-module" entries. That = would not be usable. > =20 > That may be true, but it=E2=80=99s equally true for the other = leaf-list. It's inconsistent. =20 > BALAZS2: OK. added min-elements 1; =20 Thank you. > BTW, is "choice content-schema-spec=E2=80=9D meant to be =E2=80=9Cmandat= ory true=E2=80=9D? - because, currently, 'content-schema=E2=80=9D = doesn=E2=80=99t have to be specified according to the model=E2=80=A6 > BALAZS2: No, it is optional. As described in section 2.1 there is an = external method to define the content schema outside the instance data = file. > External Method: Do not include the "content-schema" node; the > user needs to obtain the information through external documents. Gotcha - thanks. =20 > - The last two sentences of the =E2=80=9Cdescription=E2=80=9D = statement on line 207 in the YANG module contradict each other. > BALAZS: Why ? I don't see the contradiction. If you know a single = datastore specify it. If not omit the leaf. If the leaf is omitted, the = situation is unknown. > =20 > I think the word =E2=80=9Cundefined=E2=80=9D is throwing me. Maybe = =E2=80=9Cunspecified=E2=80=9D would be better? > BALAZS: OK changed to unspecified okay. > - The list under "Metadata SHOULD include:=E2=80=9D is not indented. > BALAZS: OK, added > =20 > I don=E2=80=99t see it. The way to do it is by adding a fake = =E2=80=9Clist=E2=80=9D, with missing symbols, to put the other list = inside... > BALAZS2: OK Thanks! But now I=E2=80=99m miffed (not at you), as the various = RFC-format versions are rendering this inconsistently. I was going to = suggest also indenting the first list that appears above in the same = section, but now I=E2=80=99m unsure. There appears to be a bug in = `xml2rfc` and I think now we should leave it to the editor to sort out. > - The three examples should be
of their own (e.g., 3.2.x) > BALAZS: OK > =20 > Better, but: > - the new titles don=E2=80=99t match the UC titles > - perhaps remove the =E2=80=9CUCx,=E2=80=9D prefix from the titles? = It looks weird in > the ToC and they're not needed in the title since the first = sentence > relates the example to the UC already... > BALAZS2: OK Much better! > - BTW, missing word =E2=80=9Cin=E2=80=9D: s/The example illustrates = UC[125] Section 1 > /The example illustrates UC[125] in Section 1/ > BALAZS2: OK Good. > - The =E2=80=9Cinline=E2=80=9D choice node is generally confusing. I = can=E2=80=99t tell if it=E2=80=99s missing container called =E2=80=9Cinlin= e=E2=80=9D or if the two descendant nodes are poorly named. In either = case, it would be best to try to make it more readable. > BALAZS: Yes it is complicated. Some members of Netmod (I think Rob W.) = Asked for a full, powerful, flexible way of documenting the content = schema. In some cases it is needed. > =20 > I=E2=80=99m not saying that it=E2=80=99s purpose is confusing, I=E2=80=99= m saying that its poorly named or missing a parent container. Try = looking at your examples with =E2=80=9Cfresh=E2=80=9D eyes. The node = names "inline-module=E2=80=9D and =E2=80=9Cinline-schema=E2=80=9D are = odd. It seems like =E2=80=9Cinline-module=E2=80=9D could be = =E2=80=9Canydata-schema=E2=80=9D and "inline-schema=E2=80=9D could be = =E2=80=9Cmodule-data=E2=80=9D? > BALAZS2:=20 > There is a parent container =E2=80=9Ccontent-schema=E2=80=9D around = the choice. > =20 > inline-module: the name should contain the word module, because the = content is a module for a specific purpose. What it really is: = Modules-defining-inline-content-schema, but I didn=E2=80=99t find a good = short version for this. Modules-defining-inline-content-schema. > anydata-schema doesn=E2=80=99t sound right because: > Each individual leaf-list entry is just one module not a complete = schema as a unit. As there are two anydata nodes, it could also be = confusing which do we mean. > inline-schema : the name should contain the word schema, because this = is what defines the content-schema. > Module-data does not really tell you what this is or what it=E2=80=99s = purpose is. It can also be confused with content-data. > IMHO the current names inside a content-schema container are not bad, = but any better proposals? No but please consider asking the list. It is in our collective = interest for the format to be readable/understandable... > - remove P3=E2=80=99s forward-reference to S3, P9? > BALAZS: Sorry, I did not find this. Could you specify the text around = it > =20 > Two formats are specified based on the XML and JSON YANG encodings. > Later as other YANG encodings (e.g., CBOR) are defined, further > instance data formats may be specified. > =20 > Which is normatively described below. I=E2=80=99d either delete or = move this text down so it=E2=80=99s all together. > BALAZS2: This is not a forward reference. =E2=80=9CLater=E2=80=9D in = this case means in this case means Later in time not later in the = document. This sentence was specifically requested by earlier reviewers. = How would you word this sentence. Okay. > =20 > FWIW, generally, your writing style involves a lot of prefacing, = whereas it=E2=80=99s somewhat more readable to have minimal text = possible, ideally most text being in the YANG module themselves. As an = aside, I also sometimes start a document with use-cases (to build = support), but then delete the use-cases after adoption. I find the = prevalence of the use-cases here detracting from readability. > =20 > =20 >=20 >=20 > - s/e.g., UC5 documenting diagnostic data/(e.g., UC5 [Section 2])/ > BALAZS: I prefer to use the short name of the use case instead of the = reference. IMHO it provides information instantly without a look-up. Is = that a problem? > =20 > I think I mentioned this above already, but the titles are wrong. =20 > =20 > Myself, I=E2=80=99d remove all the =E2=80=9CFigure=E2=80=9D = postambles; I never title my figures, just more to have to look at and = maintain. In the case, this is where the US titles are again = incorrect... > BALAZS2: OK, Figure=E2=80=9D postambles removed. Better. > =20 > - s/for "UC2 Preloading Data=E2=80=9D/for UC2 [Section 2],/ > BALAZS: I prefer to use the short name of the use case instead of the = reference. IMHO it provides information instantly without a look-up. Is = that a problem? > =20 > Same comment used elsewhere. Firstly, the titles are incorrect. = Second, the presentation is rather informal, a more formalized version = might be: > OLD: (e.g., for "UC2 Preloading Data" the=20 > NEW: (e.g., for the "Preloading default configuration data" use-case = (UC2 in Section 1), the > BALAZS2: OK > BTW, I think the period from the end of the previous sentence is meant = to follow the close-parentheses here... > BALAZS2: OK Thanks. > - S3.1.1 P2 doesn=E2=80=99t makes sense to me (esp. the verdt ref, = which likely should be removed or better explained) > BALAZS: This was explicitly requested by 2 members of the verdt team. = I tried to amend the text to make it more understandable, however IMHO = we should not try to explain the usage of revision label here. Also this = is just an example. > =20 > OLD:=20 > (e.g., revision labels which can be used as alternative to the = revision > date[I-D.verdt-netmod-yang-module-versioning]).=20 > =20 > NEW: > (e.g., revision labels, described by = [I-D.verdt-netmod-yang-module-versioning] > as alternative to the revision date).=20 > BALAZS2: OK > =20 > BTW, immediately following, the text says "See Section 2.2.=E2=80=9D = This doesn=E2=80=99t mean > Anything to me. Do you want to say something like =E2=80=9CAn example = of the =E2=80=9Cinline=E2=80=9D method is provided in 2.2.1=E2=80=9D? > BALAZS: OK, changed. Nice! > - s/is based on "UC1, Documenting Server Capabilities=E2=80=9D/exemplifi= es UC1 [Section 2]/ > BALAZS: Exemplifying is an uncommon word I find ugly. Is the current = text hard to understand or misleading?=20 > I changed it to " The following example illustrates ..." I hope that's = OK. > =20 > I=E2=80=99m unsure if it=E2=80=99s possible for something to be = =E2=80=9Cbased on=E2=80=9D or =E2=80=9Cillustrate=E2=80=9D a use case. = Illustrate is better though, maybe =E2=80=9Creflects=E2=80=9D or = =E2=80=9Cepitomizes"? > BALAZS2: OK, changed all illustrates to reflects >=20 > BTW, missing =E2=80=9Cin": s/illustrates UC1 Section 1/illustrates = UC1 in Section 1/ > BALAZS: OK Combo fix is good. But having the section begin with "The example reflects=E2=80=A6=E2=80=9D = seems odd. How about "The example provided in this section = reflects..."? > - s/- Use case 1, Documenting server capabilities/Exemplifying UC1/ > BALAZS: Exemplifying is an uncommon word I find ugly. Is the current = text hard to understand or misleading? =20 > IMHO the string stating the name of the use case is more helpful then = a reference, that needs to be looked up. > I changed it to " The following example illustrates ..." I hope that's = OK. > =20 > Same comment as above. > BALAZS2: OK, Figure tiles removed as you proposed. Thanks. > - s/is based on "UC2, Preloading Default Configuration=E2=80=9D/exemplif= ies UC2 [Section 2]/ > BALAZS: Exemplifying is an uncommon word I find ugly. Is the current = text hard to understand or misleading? =20 > I changed it to " The following example illustrates ..." I hope that's = OK. > =20 > Same comment as above. > BALAZS2: OK, changed to reflects Thanks. > - s/- Use case 2, Preloading access control data/Exemplifying UC2/ > BALAZS: Exemplifying is an uncommon word I find ugly. Is the current = text hard to understand or misleading? =20 > IMHO the string stating the name of the use case is more helpful then = a reference, that needs to be looked up > =20 > Same comment as above. > BALAZS2: OK, Figure tiles removed as you proposed. Thanks. > > - s/is based on UC5 Storing diagnostics data/exemplifies UC5 = [Section 2]/ > BALAZS: OK. but I changed it to: exemplifies UC5, Storing diagnostics = data. IMHO the string stating the name of the use case is more helpful = then a reference, that needs to be looked up. > I changed it to " The following example illustrates "UC2, Preloading = ..." I hope that's OK. > =20 > Same comment as above. > BALAZS2: OK, changed all illustrates to reflects Thanks. > - s/- UC5 Storing diagnostics data/Exemplifying UC5/ > BALAZS: Exemplifying is an uncommon word I find ugly. Is the current = text hard to understand or misleading? =20 > IMHO the string stating the name of the use case is more helpful then = a reference, that needs to be looked up.> > I changed it to " The following example illustrates ..." I hope that's = OK. > =20 > Same comment as above. > BALAZS2: OK, Figure tiles removed as you proposed. Thanks. > Editorial issues inside the YANG module: > - "description" statement on line 74: rephrase to make more sense. > BALAZS: Other people thought it was OK. Any specific suggestion? > =20 > OLD: > "A data structure to define a format for > YANG instance data sets. Consists of meta-data about > the instance data set and the real content-data.=E2=80=9D; >=20 > NEW: > "A data structure to define a format for > YANG instance data. The majority of the YANG nodes provide > meta-data about the instance data; the instance data itself is > is contained only in the 'content-data=E2=80=99 node.=E2=80=9D; > BALAZS2: OK Thanks. > - :description" statement on line 92: so confusing. Just write =E2=80=9C= The =E2=80=98revision' of the 'ietf-yang-instance-data=E2=80=99 module = used to encode this 'instance-data-set=E2=80=99.=E2=80=9D > BALAZS: OK >=20 > - =E2=80=9Cdescription" statement on line 100: s/content schema/schema = (i.e., YANG modules)/? > BALAZS: The term "content-schema" is defined in the terminology = section. It defines =20 > =20 > Fine, but please add "(i.e., YANG modules)=E2=80=9D so people will = have better clue=20 I didn=E2=80=99t see a response to this comment... > - =E2=80=9Ctype string=E2=80=9D statement on lines 109 and 131 are = missing a =E2=80=9Cpattern" statement. > BALAZS: OK, Defined it as a typedef. > =20 > Good! But I=E2=80=99m unsure about the pattern statement (esp. = "pattern '.|..|[^xX].*|.[^mM].*|..[^lL].*=E2=80=99;=E2=80=9D)=E2=80=A6did = you copy/paste it from somewhere? > BALAZS2: The initial part, and the section you mention is from RFC6991 = I-D.ietf-netmod-yang-module-versioning > A YANG identifier MUST NOT start with any possible > combination of the lowercase or uppercase character > sequence 'xml=E2=80=99. I see=E2=80=A6okay=E2=80=A6have you tested the new parts of the pattern = statement against a boundary conditions? > - P2 in the =E2=80=9Cdescription" statements on lines 220 and 249: = s/For instance data sets/Instance data sets/ > BALAZS: The sentence will not make sense unless I change the comma at = the end of sentence to a colon. > =20 > Hmmm, that didn=E2=80=99t come out very well. This is the same issue = as before, whereby =E2=80=9CFor instance data...=E2=80=9D looks like it = should be read =E2=80=9CFor instance, data=E2=80=A6=E2=80=9D. Maybe you = can find a better way to express this? I didn=E2=80=99t see a response to this comment... > PS: this command produces output: pyang -f yang --keep-comments = --yang-line-length 69 ietf-yang-instance-data@2020-04-02.yang = > tmp; diff = ietf-yang-instance-data@2020-04-02.yang = tmp I didn=E2=80=99t see a response to this comment=E2=80=A6. (I=E2=80=99ll = defer testing it myself again until everything is fixed) > New: missing space: s/artwork = folding[I-D.ietf-netmod-artwork-folding]/artwork folding = [I-D.ietf-netmod-artwork-folding]/ > BALAZS2: OK Other: 1) There is no RFC Editor request to assign placeholder values (e.g., = XXXX, YYYY, ZZZZ) 2) conflicting assignment with =E2=80=9CXXXX" (currently draft vs. = artwork-folding draft) s/per BCP XXX (RFC XXXX)/per BCP YYY (RFC YYYY)/ 3) In the YANG module: 3a) the =E2=80=9Creference=E2=80=9D statement isn=E2=80=99t set = correctly... OLD: reference "YANG Data Structure Extensions: = draft-ietf-netmod-yang-data-ext-05"; NEW: reference =E2=80=9CRFC ZZZZ: YANG Data Structure Extensions=E2=80=9D; 3b) please consider ordering the imports in descending RFC order: OLD: RFC ZZZZ. (i.e. draft-ietf-netmod-yang-data-ext-05) RFC 8342 RFC 6991 RFC 6991 NEW: RFC 6991 RFC 6991 RFC 8342 RFC ZZZZ. (i.e. draft-ietf-netmod-yang-data-ext-05) 4) Some of the =E2=80=9Cdescription=E2=80=9D statements in the YANG = module are not fully-justified / flow-controlled. Also, I see two lines = like "E.g., ietf-yang-=E2=80=A6=E2=80=9D that should be indented, I = think... Kent // shepherd --Apple-Mail=_6D2FBDEB-0B65-4308-98AF-98B45AC7CDCD Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/html; charset=utf-8

Hi Balazs,


P.S. Kent, if further = edits are needed, shall I do them via new uploaded versions, or shall I = just send the update for checking to = you?

I = prefer uploaded versions so I (everyone) can easily see the diffs and = verify the changes made.  Thanks for asking.



Because = it=E2=80=99s a working group document now and so uses the =E2=80=9Cietf=E2= =80=9D prefix.  Try this:
 
     <?rfc = include=3D'reference.I-D.ietf-netmod-yang-module-versioning'?> =  
BALAZS2: OK, = thanks

Np



- S5 contains an mix of important and = unimportant information.   I think that the most important = thing to state that the module defines an offline format that MAY = contain security sensitive information, and thus safe handling is = advised.  Maybe also say something about because the YANG module = only defines a =E2=80=9Cstructure=E2=80=9D,  the Security = Considerations doesn=E2=80=99t follow the template specified in https://tools.ietf.org/html/rfc8407#section-3.7.1). =  For instance: s/is designed as a wrapper specifying a format and a = metadata header for YANG instance data defined by the = content-schema/specifies an offline format/
BALAZS: Most = of text was required to be put there by earlier reviewers (Mostly = Juergen and Acee Lindem) and sent to the mailing list.
I = added that we do not follow the security template for YANG models.
 
Please add the reference to https://tools.ietf.org/html/rfc8407#section-3.7.1 per = above.
BALAZS2: = OK

Thx


 - S8.1: agreed that RFC8525 is = Normative, but the only place it it referenced is in a non-normative = section=E2=80=A6please add a ref to it from a normative section.
BALAZS: It is referenced from the YANG module which is = normative.
 
You just added that reference, but not correctly:
  1) the =E2=80=9Creference=E2=80=9D doesn=E2=80=99t = follow the standard format
  2) the paragraph at = the top of 3.2 doesn=E2=80=99t also list RFC 8525
BALAZS2: OK, = corrected

Getting there=E2=80=A6

A)
  OLD:
  =    The first item is either ietf-yang-library
  = NEW:
    The first module listed MUST either = 'ietf-yang-library=E2=80=99, from RFC 8525,

B) 
  OLD:
  =   This YANG module imports typedefs from [RFC6991], identities = from
    [RFC8342] and the "structure" = extension from
    = [I-D.ietf-netmod-yang-data-ext].  It also references = [RFC8525].

  = NEW:
    This YANG module imports typedefs = from [RFC6991], identities from
    [RFC8342], = and the "structure" extension from
    = [I-D.ietf-netmod-yang-data-ext].  It also references = [RFC8525]
    in a =E2=80=9Cdescription=E2=80= =9D statement..



 - Appendix B:
    - s/For instance data/Instance = data/
BALAZS: = Sorry, that would make the sentence incorrect.
 
Do you mean it to be =E2=80=9CFor = instance, data=E2=80=9D then?   If =E2=80=9Cinstance data=E2=80=9D = is supposed to be read together, maybe use a hyphen or quotes?
BALAZS2: OK, added = quotes

Thank you!  (I hope you see now how confusing = that was to read before=E2=80=A6)


- the syntax grammar used = in S3, P8 doesn=E2=80=99t make sense - use ABNF?
BALAZS: 
 
Please fix the grammar.
 
BALAZS2: OK, Updated = grammar.

That grammar excludes the possibility of using = CBOR, which is indicated as possible in S2, P3...


Also, isn=E2=80=99t this = now the case?
   OLD: The name of the instance data = file SHOULD be of the form:
   NEW: = The name of the instance data file MUST be of the form, = defined using ABNF [RFC5234]:

  =   - and be sure to add a Normative reference to RFC = 5234




- In S3, P8: =E2=80=9Cthe = semicolons and the decimal point, if present, shall be replaced by = underscores=E2=80=9D - why are they not escaped?
BALAZS: This is a file name. Escaping in file names does not = always work (depending on the filesystem and tools used). This is more = simple and understandable
 
No, this is a special case CLR and we never do this.  I = see this idea has been in the document since -03, so it must=E2=80=99ve = bee discussed, can you point me to the discussion? 
 
FWIW, my OS doesn=E2=80=99t even = require escaping colons.  BTW, they=E2=80=99re =E2=80=9Ccolons=E2=80=9D= (not semicolons).
BALAZS2: Windows doesn=E2=80=99t allow colons in the = filename. Although it=E2=80=99s not everyone=E2=80=99s favorite OS, it = is pretty widespread. 

Understood, but that doesn=E2=80=99= t explain why escapes can=E2=80=99t work.  Please = explain.


For Ubuntu Linux and a bash shell the = colon is allowed, but tab extension does not work = properly.

On Bash:
  $ touch a:b
  $ ls a<TAB> ---> replaces =E2=80=9Ca=E2=80=9D = with "a\:b=E2=80=9D <RETURN>
  = a:b

Seems regular to me=E2=80=A6what=E2= =80=99s the problem?


Sorry, I don=E2=80=99t remember any discussion on this. = Timestamps were discussed, but I don=E2=80=99t find any arguments about = this substitution.
Changed = semicolon->colon

Excellent.


- It is unclear how the = "inline-content-schema=E2=80=9D feature could ever be used.  I.e., = there are no protocol-accessible nodes in the module=E2=80=A6
BALAZS: The system can declare in supported/not-supported in = design documentation. E.g. in UC2, Preloading Default Configuration the = designer preparing instance data, can decide to use or not use the = inline-content-schema based on this.
 
When I make statements like this, please see it as an = opportunity to improve the document.  In this case, please modify = the inline-content-schema=E2=80=99s =E2=80=9Cdescription=E2=80=9D = statement to indicate that the feature is never supported by a server, = and that it is intended to be enabled via out-of-band documentation. =  BTW, was this discussed by the WG?
BALAZS2: It was discussed that this inline-content-schema = seems complicated, so it should not be mandatory. After this I = introduced the feature. AFAIK no discussion after this.
Actually = it might be supported by a server: 
  • preloading configuration data: the server may or = may not be able the inline-content-schema. The designers preparing the = instance data sets to be loaded onto the server may use this declaration = as a design guide
  • if a server also produces instance data files = (e.g. UC5  Storing diagnostics data), and I am writing a = post-processing tool to handle these files, I would use the support for = this feature as an input requirement: does my tool need to support = inline-content-schema
While the server will probably not declare support for the = ietf-yang-instance-data module and this feature, the support of the = statement about feature support would be available in the product = documentation.
I= changed the description to 
  feature inline-content-schema {
    description
      "This = feature indicates that inline content-schema  
          opt= ion is supported. Support for this feature might 
         be = documented only via out-of-band documentation.";
  }
Is that = OK?

Yes, but please s/inline content-schema option/=E2=80=98inline=E2=80=99 case of the 'content-schema=E2=80=99 container/


- = "leaf-list inline-module" is "min-elements 1=E2=80=9D and "ordered-by = user=E2=80=9D, but "leaf-list module=E2=80=9D has neither (though it may = be that ordering is irrelevant for simple-inline).
BALAZS: ordered-by  removed. It doesn't really mean = anything. In this case there is no chance of the system reordering a = list a CLI/Netconf/Restconf client provided.
Min-elements = is not needed for simplified-inline as the case will only be selected if = there is at least one "module" leaf-list entry. It is needed for inline = because otherwise the case could contain an " inline-schema" anydata = section and no "inline-module" entries. That would not be usable.
 
That may be true, but it=E2=80=99s equally true for the other = leaf-list.  It's inconsistent.  
BALAZS2: OK. added min-elements 1; =  

Thank you.


BTW, is "choice content-schema-spec=E2=80=9D meant to = be =E2=80=9Cmandatory true=E2=80=9D?  - because, currently, = 'content-schema=E2=80=9D doesn=E2=80=99t have to be specified according = to the model=E2=80=A6
BALAZS2: No, it is optional. As = described in section 2.1 there is an external method to define the = content schema outside the instance data file.
      External = Method: Do not include the "content-schema" node; the
      user needs to obtain the = information through external = documents.

Gotcha - thanks.

 
-= The last two sentences of the =E2=80=9Cdescription=E2=80=9D statement = on line 207 in the YANG module contradict each other.
BALAZS: Why ? I don't see the contradiction. If you know a = single datastore specify it. If not omit the leaf. If the leaf is = omitted, the situation is unknown.
 
I think the word =E2=80=9Cundefined=E2=80= =9D is throwing me.  Maybe =E2=80=9Cunspecified=E2=80=9D would be = better?
BALAZS: OK changed to = unspecified

okay.


- The = list under "Metadata SHOULD include:=E2=80=9D is not indented.
BALAZS: OK, added
 
I don=E2=80=99t see it.  The way to do it is by adding a = fake =E2=80=9Clist=E2=80=9D, with missing symbols, to put the other list = inside...
BALAZS2: OK

Thanks!  But now I=E2=80=99m miffed (not at = you), as the various RFC-format versions are rendering this = inconsistently.  I was going to suggest also indenting the first = list that appears above in the same section, but now I=E2=80=99m unsure. =  There appears to be a bug in `xml2rfc` and I think now we should = leave it to the editor to sort out.


- The three examples = should be <section> of their own (e.g., 3.2.x)
BALAZS: OK
 
Better, but:
  - the new titles = don=E2=80=99t match the UC titles
  - perhaps remove = the =E2=80=9CUCx,=E2=80=9D prefix from the titles?  It looks weird = in
    the ToC and they're not needed in the title = since the first sentence
    relates the = example to the UC already...
BALAZS2: = OK

Much = better!


  - BTW, missing word =E2=80=9Cin=E2=80=9D:  s/The = example illustrates UC[125] Section 1
    /The example illustrates UC[125] in = Section 1/
BALAZS2: OK

Good.


- The =E2=80=9Cinline=E2=80=9D= choice node is generally confusing.  I can=E2=80=99t tell if = it=E2=80=99s missing container called =E2=80=9Cinline=E2=80=9D or if the = two descendant nodes are poorly named.  In either case, it would be = best to try to make it more readable.
BALAZS: Yes it is complicated. Some members of Netmod (I = think Rob W.) Asked for a full, powerful, flexible way of documenting = the content schema. In some cases it is needed.
 
I=E2=80=99m not saying that it=E2=80=99s purpose is = confusing, I=E2=80=99m saying that its poorly named or missing a parent = container.  Try looking at your examples with =E2=80=9Cfresh=E2=80=9D= eyes.  The node names "inline-module=E2=80=9D and = =E2=80=9Cinline-schema=E2=80=9D are odd.  It seems like = =E2=80=9Cinline-module=E2=80=9D could be =E2=80=9Canydata-schema=E2=80=9D = and "inline-schema=E2=80=9D could be =E2=80=9Cmodule-data=E2=80=9D?
BALAZS2: 
There is = a parent container =E2=80=9Ccontent-schema=E2=80=9D around the = choice.
 
inline-module: the name should contain the word module, = because the content is a module for a specific purpose. What it really = is: Modules-defining-inline-content-schema, but I didn=E2=80=99t find a = good short version for this. Modules-defining-inline-content-schema.
anydata-schema doesn=E2=80=99t sound right because:
  • Each individual leaf-list entry is just one module = not a complete schema as a unit. As there are two anydata nodes, it = could also be confusing which do we mean.
inline-schema : the name should contain the word schema, = because this is what defines the content-schema.
Module-data= does not really tell you what this is or what it=E2=80=99s purpose is. = It can also be confused with content-data.
IMHO the current names inside a content-schema container are = not bad, but any better = proposals?

No= but please consider asking the list.  It is in our collective = interest for the format to be readable/understandable...


- remove = P3=E2=80=99s forward-reference to S3, P9?

BALAZS:  Sorry, I did not find this. Could you specify = the text around it

 
   Two formats are specified based on =
the XML and JSON YANG encodings.
   Later as other YANG encodings (e.g., CBOR) are =
defined, further
   instance =
data formats may be specified.
 
Which is normatively described below. =  I=E2=80=99d either delete or move this text down so it=E2=80=99s = all together.
BALAZS2: This is not a forward reference. =E2=80=9CLater=E2=80=9D= in this case means in this case means Later in time not later in the = document. This sentence was specifically requested by earlier reviewers. = How would you word this sentence.

Okay.

 
FWIW, generally, your writing style involves a lot of = prefacing, whereas it=E2=80=99s somewhat more readable to have minimal = text possible, ideally most text being in the YANG module themselves. =  As an aside, I also sometimes start a document with use-cases (to = build support), but then delete the use-cases after adoption.  I = find the prevalence of the use-cases here detracting from = readability.
 
 


- s/e.g., UC5 documenting = diagnostic data/(e.g., UC5 [Section 2])/
BALAZS: I prefer to use the short name of the use case = instead of the reference. IMHO it provides information instantly without = a look-up. Is that a problem?
 
I think I mentioned this above already, but the titles are = wrong.  
 
Myself, I=E2=80=99d remove all the =E2=80=9CFigure=E2=80=9D = postambles; I never title my figures, just more to have to look at and = maintain.  In the case, this is where the US titles are again = incorrect...
BALAZS2: OK, Figure=E2=80=9D postambles = removed.

Better.


 
- s/for "UC2 Preloading = Data=E2=80=9D/for UC2 [Section 2],/
BALAZS: I prefer to use the short name of the use case = instead of the reference. IMHO it provides information instantly without = a look-up. Is that a problem?
 
Same comment used elsewhere.  Firstly, the titles are = incorrect.  Second, the presentation is rather informal, a more = formalized version might be:
OLD: (e.g., for "UC2 = Preloading Data" the 
NEW: (e.g., for the = "Preloading default configuration data" use-case (UC2 in Section 1), = the
BALAZS2: OK
BTW, I think the period = from the end of the previous sentence is meant to follow the = close-parentheses here...
BALAZS2: = OK

Thanks.


- S3.1.1 = P2 doesn=E2=80=99t makes sense to me (esp. the verdt ref, which likely = should be removed or better explained)
BALAZS: This was explicitly requested by 2 members of the = verdt team. I tried to amend the text to make it more understandable, = however IMHO we should not try to explain the usage of revision label = here. Also this is just an example.
 
OLD: 
  =  (e.g., revision labels which can be used as alternative to the = revision
  =  date[I-D.verdt-netmod-yang-module-versioning]). 
 
NEW:
    (e.g., revision labels, = described by [I-D.verdt-netmod-yang-module-versioning]
    as alternative to the revision date). 
BALAZS2: = OK
 
BTW, immediately following, the text says "See Section = 2.2.=E2=80=9D   This doesn=E2=80=99t mean
Anything to me.  Do you want to say something like =E2=80=9C= An example of the =E2=80=9Cinline=E2=80=9D method is provided in = 2.2.1=E2=80=9D?
BALAZS: OK, = changed.

Nice!


- s/is = based on "UC1, Documenting Server Capabilities=E2=80=9D/exemplifies UC1 = [Section 2]/
BALAZS: Exemplifying is an uncommon word I find ugly. Is the = current text hard to understand or misleading? 
I changed = it to " The following example illustrates ..." I hope that's OK.
 
I=E2=80=99m unsure if it=E2=80=99s = possible for something to be =E2=80=9Cbased on=E2=80=9D or = =E2=80=9Cillustrate=E2=80=9D a use case.  Illustrate is better = though, maybe =E2=80=9Creflects=E2=80=9D or =E2=80=9Cepitomizes"?
BALAZS2: = OK, changed all illustrates to reflects

BTW, missing =E2=80=9Cin": =  s/illustrates UC1 Section 1/illustrates UC1 in Section 1/
BALAZS: OK

Combo fix is good.

But having the section begin with "The example = reflects=E2=80=A6=E2=80=9D seems odd.   How about "The example = provided in this section reflects..."?



- s/- Use case 1, = Documenting server capabilities/Exemplifying UC1/
BALAZS: Exemplifying is an uncommon word I find ugly. Is the = current text hard to understand or misleading?  
IMHO = the string stating  the name of the use case is more helpful then a = reference, that needs to be looked up.
I changed it to " = The following example illustrates ..." I hope that's OK.
 
Same comment as above.
BALAZS2: OK, Figure tiles = removed as you proposed.

Thanks.


- s/is = based on "UC2, Preloading Default Configuration=E2=80=9D/exemplifies UC2 = [Section 2]/
BALAZS: Exemplifying is an uncommon word I find ugly. Is the = current text hard to understand or misleading?  
I = changed it to " The following example illustrates ..." I hope that's = OK.
 
Same comment as above.
BALAZS2: OK, changed to = reflects

Thanks.


- s/- Use = case 2, Preloading access control data/Exemplifying UC2/
BALAZS: Exemplifying is an uncommon word I find ugly. Is the = current text hard to understand or misleading?  
IMHO = the string stating  the name of the use case is more helpful then a = reference, that needs to be looked up
 
Same comment as above.
BALAZS2: OK, Figure tiles removed as = you proposed.

Thanks.


>  - s/is based on UC5 Storing = diagnostics data/exemplifies UC5 [Section 2]/
BALAZS: OK. = but I changed it to: exemplifies UC5, Storing diagnostics data. IMHO the = string stating  the name of the use case is more helpful then a = reference, that needs to be looked up.
I changed it to " = The following example illustrates "UC2, Preloading ..." I hope that's = OK.
 
Same comment as above.
BALAZS2: OK, changed all = illustrates to reflects

Thanks.


- s/- UC5 Storing = diagnostics data/Exemplifying UC5/
BALAZS: Exemplifying is an uncommon word I find ugly. Is the = current text hard to understand or misleading?  
IMHO = the string stating  the name of the use case is more helpful then a = reference, that needs to be looked up.>
I changed it to = " The following example illustrates ..." I hope that's OK.
 
Same comment as above.
BALAZS2: OK, Figure = tiles removed as you proposed.

Thanks.


Editorial issues inside = the YANG module:
- "description" statement on line 74: = rephrase to make more sense.
BALAZS: Other people thought it was OK. = Any specific suggestion?
 
OLD:

      "A data = structure to define a format for
      =  YANG instance data sets. Consists of meta-data about
       the instance data set and the real = content-data.=E2=80=9D;

NEW:
      "A data structure to define a = format for
       YANG instance data. =   The majority of the YANG nodes provide
       meta-data about the instance = data; the instance data itself is
      =  is contained only in the 'content-data=E2=80=99 node.=E2=80=9D;
BALAZS2: OK

Thanks.


- :description" statement = on line 92: so confusing.  Just write =E2=80=9CThe =E2=80=98revision'= of the 'ietf-yang-instance-data=E2=80=99 module used to encode this = 'instance-data-set=E2=80=99.=E2=80=9D
BALAZS: OK

- = =E2=80=9Cdescription" statement on line 100: s/content schema/schema = (i.e., YANG modules)/?
BALAZS: The term "content-schema" is = defined in the terminology section.  It defines  
 
Fine, but please add "(i.e., YANG modules)=E2=80=9D so people = will have better clue 

I didn=E2=80=99t see a response to this = comment...



- =E2=80=9C= type string=E2=80=9D statement on lines 109 and 131 are missing a = =E2=80=9Cpattern" statement.
BALAZS: OK, Defined it as a = typedef.
 
Good!  But I=E2=80=99m unsure about the pattern = statement (esp. "pattern '.|..|[^xX].*|.[^mM].*|..[^lL].*=E2=80=99;=E2=80=9D= )=E2=80=A6did you copy/paste it from somewhere?
BALAZS2: = The initial part, and the section you mention is from RFC6991 = I-D.ietf-netmod-yang-module-versioning
          A YANG = identifier MUST NOT start with any possible
          = combination of the lowercase or uppercase character
          = sequence 'xml=E2=80=99.

I see=E2=80=A6okay=E2=80=A6have you tested the new = parts of the pattern statement against a boundary = conditions?



- P2 in the =E2=80=9Cdescription" = statements on lines 220 and 249: s/For instance data sets/Instance data = sets/
BALAZS: The sentence will not make sense unless I change the = comma at the end of sentence to a colon.
 
Hmmm, that didn=E2=80=99t come out very well.  This is = the same issue as before, whereby =E2=80=9CFor instance data...=E2=80=9D = looks like it should be read =E2=80=9CFor instance, data=E2=80=A6=E2=80=9D= .  Maybe you can find a better way to express = this?

I= didn=E2=80=99t see a response to this comment...


PS: this command produces output:  pyang -f yang = --keep-comments --yang-line-length 69 ietf-yang-instance-data@2020-04-02.yang > tmp; diff ietf-yang-instance-data@2020-04-02.yang tmp
<= /div>

I didn=E2=80=99t see a = response to this comment=E2=80=A6. (I=E2=80=99ll defer testing it myself = again until everything is fixed)



New: missing space: s/artwork = folding[I-D.ietf-netmod-artwork-folding]/artwork folding = [I-D.ietf-netmod-artwork-folding]/
BALAZS2: = OK


Other:

1) = There is no RFC Editor request to assign placeholder values (e.g., XXXX, = YYYY, ZZZZ)

2) conflicting = assignment with =E2=80=9CXXXX" (currently draft vs. artwork-folding = draft)
      s/per BCP XXX (RFC XXXX)/per BCP = YYY (RFC YYYY)/

3) = In the YANG module:

3a) the = =E2=80=9Creference=E2=80=9D statement isn=E2=80=99t set = correctly...

  = OLD:
      =  reference
        =  "YANG Data Structure Extensions: = draft-ietf-netmod-yang-data-ext-05";

  NEW:
  =      reference
      =    =E2=80=9CRFC ZZZZ: YANG Data Structure = Extensions=E2=80=9D;

3b) please consider ordering the = imports in descending RFC order:

  OLD:
    RFC ZZZZ. = (i.e. draft-ietf-netmod-yang-data-ext-05)
    RFC = 8342
    RFC 6991
    = RFC 6991

  = NEW:
    RFC 6991
    RFC = 6991
    RFC 8342
    RFC ZZZZ. (i.e. = draft-ietf-netmod-yang-data-ext-05)



4) = Some of the =E2=80=9Cdescription=E2=80=9D statements in the YANG module = are not fully-justified / flow-controlled.  Also, I see two lines = like "E.g., ietf-yang-=E2=80=A6=E2=80=9D = that should be indented, I think...



Kent // = shepherd

= --Apple-Mail=_6D2FBDEB-0B65-4308-98AF-98B45AC7CDCD-- From nobody Thu Apr 16 18:14:00 2020 Return-Path: <0100017185b30504-4afa0fb9-6e48-422b-b54d-91711211de95-000000@amazonses.watsen.net> X-Original-To: netmod@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: netmod@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4FF6B3A14ED; Thu, 16 Apr 2020 18:13:57 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.898 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.898 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_NONE=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (1024-bit key) header.d=amazonses.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id RXAZxXxMjNsI; Thu, 16 Apr 2020 18:13:56 -0700 (PDT) Received: from a48-92.smtp-out.amazonses.com (a48-92.smtp-out.amazonses.com [54.240.48.92]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 84D3B3A14EB; Thu, 16 Apr 2020 18:13:55 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; q=dns/txt; c=relaxed/simple; s=224i4yxa5dv7c2xz3womw6peuasteono; d=amazonses.com; t=1587086034; h=Content-Type:Mime-Version:Subject:From:In-Reply-To:Date:Cc:Content-Transfer-Encoding:Message-Id:References:To:Feedback-ID; bh=vesvzohTHqUQcnCP0alznBJXD09A9jHiQgN1KnKBDrw=; b=LRNVPoPwjSca1NMm9UDxTooav26boYunxEGoFQiraF2hWfZohmsnlmiKAGGSpxAe ee/6NMbpWz3eSRCQVe5U5voLgM39Dy1JvwVzuux8q1+RV1F9wG4fsXTWLLPp3HFA4++ S4miG8/1DqCjJEWeH+nLHC3PpbVGuyE+GF0P3sAM= Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 12.4 \(3445.104.11\)) From: Kent Watsen In-Reply-To: <20200411064939.3lk5yl3gvac6zxlx@anna.jacobs.jacobs-university.de> Date: Fri, 17 Apr 2020 01:13:54 +0000 Cc: "netmod@ietf.org" , draft-ietf-netmod-rfc6991-bis@ietf.org Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Message-ID: <0100017185b30504-4afa0fb9-6e48-422b-b54d-91711211de95-000000@email.amazonses.com> References: <0100017165acf391-5e3d197d-7911-4d7f-87d4-0ee95fcee855-000000@email.amazonses.com> <20200410200434.xisbzr5cuxzhmkpi@anna.jacobs.jacobs-university.de> <0100017165dadd72-00249a2b-8ea8-4d74-88d0-bf0579e817ae-000000@email.amazonses.com> <20200411064939.3lk5yl3gvac6zxlx@anna.jacobs.jacobs-university.de> To: Juergen Schoenwaelder X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.3445.104.11) X-SES-Outgoing: 2020.04.17-54.240.48.92 Feedback-ID: 1.us-east-1.DKmIRZFhhsBhtmFMNikgwZUWVrODEw9qVcPhqJEI2DA=:AmazonSES Archived-At: Subject: Re: [netmod] Add "node-instance-identifier" to rfc6991-bis? X-BeenThere: netmod@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: NETMOD WG list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 17 Apr 2020 01:13:58 -0000 >>>> PS: the "token=E2=80=9D type add discussion from before never = completed (again, modeled after xsd:token) >>=20 >> What about this? >>=20 >=20 > What would this type be good for? Any models already using something > like this? Not in a standard model, that I=E2=80=99m aware of but, back at Juniper, = I had a typedef for this that I used as a basis for so many things, but = mostly things intended to be identifiers of sorts, whereby having = whitespace didn=E2=80=99t make sense. 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X-BeenThere: netmod@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: NETMOD WG list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 17 Apr 2020 08:16:32 -0000 On Fri, Apr 17, 2020 at 01:13:54AM +0000, Kent Watsen wrote: > > >>>> PS: the "token†type add discussion from before never completed (again, modeled after xsd:token) > >> > >> What about this? > >> > > > > What would this type be good for? Any models already using something > > like this? > > > Not in a standard model, that I’m aware of but, back at Juniper, I had a typedef for this that I used as a basis for so many things, but mostly things intended to be identifiers of sorts, whereby having whitespace didn’t make sense. > This type does not eliminate whitespace, it only reduces multiple consecutive whitespaces to one. /js -- Juergen Schoenwaelder Jacobs University Bremen gGmbH Phone: +49 421 200 3587 Campus Ring 1 | 28759 Bremen | Germany Fax: +49 421 200 3103 From nobody Fri Apr 17 08:17:43 2020 Return-Path: <0100017188b6e098-3664a434-f84f-4cb0-9145-e92ed06a3bb5-000000@amazonses.watsen.net> X-Original-To: netmod@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: netmod@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6AC2D3A0ED1; Fri, 17 Apr 2020 08:17:36 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.896 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.896 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_NONE=0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (1024-bit key) header.d=amazonses.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id k9E7wGk536qu; Fri, 17 Apr 2020 08:17:34 -0700 (PDT) Received: from a48-94.smtp-out.amazonses.com (a48-94.smtp-out.amazonses.com [54.240.48.94]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 681043A0FC7; Fri, 17 Apr 2020 08:17:00 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; q=dns/txt; c=relaxed/simple; s=224i4yxa5dv7c2xz3womw6peuasteono; d=amazonses.com; t=1587136619; h=From:Message-Id:Content-Type:Mime-Version:Subject:Date:In-Reply-To:Cc:To:References:Feedback-ID; bh=lx7Q2tDTtyQovZ6zZhQ0Ej7oC1sr844JZgGjjmYGi7U=; b=dGGnWu/JlQcuVKAtimnOcBDHPpctCYLWQSXByCnux0PQHfqTf3YaaDwAP8utFE/I pl+7NG386jiJvb6IjXL8LBq/h6qr98dDxyl3q4TywRk3tbfNLrsMjI6QRUuDvcWbZfv Bgv9477OlNaMvv5IGpE5Xz8Zh5sl1opDSmq9mffQ= From: Kent Watsen Message-ID: <0100017188b6e098-3664a434-f84f-4cb0-9145-e92ed06a3bb5-000000@email.amazonses.com> Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="Apple-Mail=_2429A199-E8DE-4214-B734-AF2BF651A3B5" Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 12.4 \(3445.104.11\)) Date: Fri, 17 Apr 2020 15:16:58 +0000 In-Reply-To: <20200417081625.pjeup33y5wxqwt7k@anna.jacobs.jacobs-university.de> Cc: "netmod@ietf.org" , draft-ietf-netmod-rfc6991-bis@ietf.org To: Juergen Schoenwaelder References: <0100017165acf391-5e3d197d-7911-4d7f-87d4-0ee95fcee855-000000@email.amazonses.com> <20200410200434.xisbzr5cuxzhmkpi@anna.jacobs.jacobs-university.de> <0100017165dadd72-00249a2b-8ea8-4d74-88d0-bf0579e817ae-000000@email.amazonses.com> <20200411064939.3lk5yl3gvac6zxlx@anna.jacobs.jacobs-university.de> <0100017185b30504-4afa0fb9-6e48-422b-b54d-91711211de95-000000@email.amazonses.com> <20200417081625.pjeup33y5wxqwt7k@anna.jacobs.jacobs-university.de> X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.3445.104.11) X-SES-Outgoing: 2020.04.17-54.240.48.94 Feedback-ID: 1.us-east-1.DKmIRZFhhsBhtmFMNikgwZUWVrODEw9qVcPhqJEI2DA=:AmazonSES Archived-At: Subject: [netmod] Add "token" to rfc6991-bis? (was: Re: Add "node-instance-identifier" to rfc6991-bis?) X-BeenThere: netmod@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: NETMOD WG list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 17 Apr 2020 15:17:42 -0000 --Apple-Mail=_2429A199-E8DE-4214-B734-AF2BF651A3B5 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 [changing subject line] > On Apr 17, 2020, at 4:16 AM, Juergen Schoenwaelder = wrote: >=20 > On Fri, Apr 17, 2020 at 01:13:54AM +0000, Kent Watsen wrote: >>=20 >>>>>> PS: the "token=E2=80=9D type add discussion from before never = completed (again, modeled after xsd:token) >>>>=20 >>>> What about this? >>>>=20 >>>=20 >>> What would this type be good for? Any models already using something >>> like this? >>=20 >>=20 >> Not in a standard model, that I=E2=80=99m aware of but, back at = Juniper, I had a typedef for this that I used as a basis for so many = things, but mostly things intended to be identifiers of sorts, whereby = having whitespace didn=E2=80=99t make sense. >>=20 >=20 > This type does not eliminate whitespace, it only reduces multiple > consecutive whitespaces to one. Leading/trailing whitespace :sigh: Too pedantic much? Please, think about the gazillion models where there is this: leaf name { type string; description =E2=80=9DAn arbitrary name for the=E2=80=A6=E2=80=9D; } It=E2=80=99s obvious the name shouldn=E2=80=99t contain paragraphs of = text or, in general, non-printable characters of any sort, or = preceding/trailing space characters. Given this preponderance of this = use case and the history of module-writers not defining the necessary = pattern statements, a =E2=80=9Ctoken=E2=80=9D type would be welcomed. = For instance: leaf name { type token; description =E2=80=9DAn arbitrary name for the=E2=80=A6=E2=80=9D; } Kent // contributor --Apple-Mail=_2429A199-E8DE-4214-B734-AF2BF651A3B5 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/html; charset=utf-8 [changing subject line]

On Apr = 17, 2020, at 4:16 AM, Juergen Schoenwaelder <j.schoenwaelder@jacobs-university.de> wrote:

On Fri, Apr 17, 2020 at = 01:13:54AM +0000, Kent Watsen wrote:

PS: the = "token=E2=80=9D type add discussion from before never completed (again, = modeled after xsd:token)

What about this?


What would this type be good for? Any models already using = something
like this?


Not in a standard model, that I=E2=80=99m = aware of but, back at Juniper, I had a typedef for this that I used as a = basis for so many things, but mostly things intended to be identifiers = of sorts, whereby having whitespace didn=E2=80=99t make sense.


This type does not eliminate whitespace, it only reduces = multiple
consecutive = whitespaces to one.

Leading/trailing whitespace :sigh:  Too = pedantic much?

Please, think about the gazillion models where there is = this:

  =   leaf name {
        type = string;
        description = =E2=80=9DAn arbitrary name for the=E2=80=A6=E2=80=9D;
    }

It=E2=80=99s obvious the name shouldn=E2=80=99t contain = paragraphs of text or, in general, non-printable characters of any sort, = or preceding/trailing space characters.  Given this preponderance = of this use case and the history of module-writers not defining the = necessary pattern statements, a =E2=80=9Ctoken=E2=80=9D type would be = welcomed.   For instance:

    leaf name = {
        type token;
        description =E2=80=9DAn arbitrary = name for the=E2=80=A6=E2=80=9D;
    = }


Kent // contributor



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Fri, 17 Apr 2020 15:43:21 +0000 Date: Fri, 17 Apr 2020 17:43:20 +0200 From: Juergen Schoenwaelder To: Kent Watsen Cc: "netmod@ietf.org" , draft-ietf-netmod-rfc6991-bis@ietf.org Message-ID: <20200417154320.mmri3arrl2su733i@anna.jacobs.jacobs-university.de> Reply-To: Juergen Schoenwaelder Mail-Followup-To: Kent Watsen , "netmod@ietf.org" , draft-ietf-netmod-rfc6991-bis@ietf.org References: <0100017165acf391-5e3d197d-7911-4d7f-87d4-0ee95fcee855-000000@email.amazonses.com> <20200410200434.xisbzr5cuxzhmkpi@anna.jacobs.jacobs-university.de> <0100017165dadd72-00249a2b-8ea8-4d74-88d0-bf0579e817ae-000000@email.amazonses.com> <20200411064939.3lk5yl3gvac6zxlx@anna.jacobs.jacobs-university.de> <0100017185b30504-4afa0fb9-6e48-422b-b54d-91711211de95-000000@email.amazonses.com> <20200417081625.pjeup33y5wxqwt7k@anna.jacobs.jacobs-university.de> <0100017188b6e098-3664a434-f84f-4cb0-9145-e92ed06a3bb5-000000@email.amazonses.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit In-Reply-To: <0100017188b6e098-3664a434-f84f-4cb0-9145-e92ed06a3bb5-000000@email.amazonses.com> X-ClientProxiedBy: FR2P281CA0013.DEUP281.PROD.OUTLOOK.COM (2603:10a6:d10:a::23) To AM0P190MB0707.EURP190.PROD.OUTLOOK.COM (2603:10a6:208:196::24) MIME-Version: 1.0 X-MS-Exchange-MessageSentRepresentingType: 1 Received: from localhost (2001:638:709:5::7) by FR2P281CA0013.DEUP281.PROD.OUTLOOK.COM (2603:10a6:d10:a::23) with Microsoft SMTP Server (version=TLS1_2, cipher=TLS_ECDHE_RSA_WITH_AES_256_GCM_SHA384) id 15.20.2921.25 via Frontend Transport; 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(was: Re: Add "node-instance-identifier" to rfc6991-bis?) X-BeenThere: netmod@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: NETMOD WG list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 17 Apr 2020 15:43:26 -0000 On Fri, Apr 17, 2020 at 03:16:58PM +0000, Kent Watsen wrote: > [changing subject line] > > > On Apr 17, 2020, at 4:16 AM, Juergen Schoenwaelder wrote: > > > > On Fri, Apr 17, 2020 at 01:13:54AM +0000, Kent Watsen wrote: > >> > >>>>>> PS: the "token†type add discussion from before never completed (again, modeled after xsd:token) > >>>> > >>>> What about this? > >>>> > >>> > >>> What would this type be good for? Any models already using something > >>> like this? > >> > >> > >> Not in a standard model, that I’m aware of but, back at Juniper, I had a typedef for this that I used as a basis for so many things, but mostly things intended to be identifiers of sorts, whereby having whitespace didn’t make sense. > >> > > > > This type does not eliminate whitespace, it only reduces multiple > > consecutive whitespaces to one. > > Leading/trailing whitespace :sigh: Too pedantic much? > > Please, think about the gazillion models where there is this: > > leaf name { > type string; > description â€An arbitrary name for the…â€; > } > > It’s obvious the name shouldn’t contain paragraphs of text or, in general, non-printable characters of any sort, or preceding/trailing space characters. Given this preponderance of this use case and the history of module-writers not defining the necessary pattern statements, a “token†type would be welcomed. For instance: > > leaf name { > type token; > description â€An arbitrary name for the…â€; > } > xsd:token only collapses white space, it does not solve the problem you are talking about. And some people have argued in the past that sane operators will not put weird characters into their names. If I were to define an identifier type, I would consider to disallow white space instead of collapsing white space. Frankly, if your code can deal with one whitespace, it likely can deal with two. While the LMAP model was developed, I had a restricted identifier type in the LMAP data model. I then implemented the code to enforce the restriction. And then I figured out that the code to escape funny characters was not much longer than the code to reject funny characters and so I ended up removing the restriction. This ties into the discussion whether YANG should do anything about normalization and so far we always ended up with declaring this to be an operational problem. If you put non-normalized strings into your config, you need to be prepared to deal with the consequences. Anyway, if we were to address this issue, then xsd:token will most likely not be the answer. /js -- Juergen Schoenwaelder Jacobs University Bremen gGmbH Phone: +49 421 200 3587 Campus Ring 1 | 28759 Bremen | Germany Fax: +49 421 200 3103 From nobody Fri Apr 17 08:59:56 2020 Return-Path: X-Original-To: netmod@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: netmod@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id D70F13A0F87 for ; Fri, 17 Apr 2020 08:59:53 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.887 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.887 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, T_SPF_PERMERROR=0.01, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=yumaworks-com.20150623.gappssmtp.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id jVSzsx91Xsi6 for ; Fri, 17 Apr 2020 08:59:51 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail-yb1-xb2d.google.com (mail-yb1-xb2d.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:4864:20::b2d]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id AC2E23A0F14 for ; Fri, 17 Apr 2020 08:59:51 -0700 (PDT) Received: by mail-yb1-xb2d.google.com with SMTP id h205so1280483ybg.6 for ; Fri, 17 Apr 2020 08:59:51 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=yumaworks-com.20150623.gappssmtp.com; s=20150623; h=mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date:message-id:subject:to; bh=qMzZXDtY3KxUlkwX446qEwwVJfO3IED5OYuvrOg3+Ko=; b=nrw8ZVYAkGRulEhO7h+T931yifvgE0NlOLeBU20/LovZcFnfg5ygQdf77v97SkHDyd O7ik9xOcVTVYNvYtcloLc4OUV2KmTwCUrvDPLW5B6bN0FbwJfl0QqpmfEVK0d7IeS4ul t/5Sru+6r1XFTlEIGPJB5ptr7uVPm6Eb1uMJCzmQKRegSllYlRk/eoIVhRoLCNNPJIIc KUnQ15kQR+zSOfJsP2E6JGcubHe39K+epYVFjcY8nzF5Hi7X79GAC7fgWqBRptc12zL1 hNPuisenLAiuCAW29sC58Uq5sxRPIXxrLDpH9ESVrOb0OAsKYKxYLZ+yyyf2DLeQYNwR ZyWA== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date :message-id:subject:to; bh=qMzZXDtY3KxUlkwX446qEwwVJfO3IED5OYuvrOg3+Ko=; b=bA6uN65AjbvyVY8oEbVZXCjct0buzyQFs5Op3DEChVL6evPch0jD2/PMMRet5Ea6IZ NBJWoQfKhsxg0J+Xih9AL5bEBAbCd1YEprlrciB1k8zdRkuwbZ4pSiitr2ruHenh6/Us +IqMo0AJmZ/0xyMLr0B14PJILLPAMvkfdvpcT6F9JZQdgz++iWvKUHQD75FRGm94kPOL bGJwUbrac1u2AvIyiFW+GEBbiXblPJssbeJXCR9PyYP7r5fHDU83+7u17YjgSS0M/Qlh nTUNoWuYhE0Vrfb/F4xbTymchGgQT2HEHRCeNRjsbilFJCJytvDOJi5DQ07zUZwFzzfl dFqQ== X-Gm-Message-State: AGi0PuY/mSiaEm+dzlaEaywW9M+TX8jxZKuXO5vs/VkaAnb99AEoQyLx VztdV2SvatsbG7ZlKMD0slbAY6KMEFKN10EXiCFm0GPq X-Google-Smtp-Source: APiQypKQx0G9hAeqPzKbIjB2yPaldKWE5HwMnL5yFjghZWgLPxBt+yaUq+WH3agW8GNTqacb9B5GOk0QGdlmlZegXCQ= X-Received: by 2002:a25:3252:: with SMTP id y79mr3042020yby.274.1587139189840; Fri, 17 Apr 2020 08:59:49 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 References: <0100017165acf391-5e3d197d-7911-4d7f-87d4-0ee95fcee855-000000@email.amazonses.com> <20200410200434.xisbzr5cuxzhmkpi@anna.jacobs.jacobs-university.de> <0100017165dadd72-00249a2b-8ea8-4d74-88d0-bf0579e817ae-000000@email.amazonses.com> <20200411064939.3lk5yl3gvac6zxlx@anna.jacobs.jacobs-university.de> <0100017185b30504-4afa0fb9-6e48-422b-b54d-91711211de95-000000@email.amazonses.com> <20200417081625.pjeup33y5wxqwt7k@anna.jacobs.jacobs-university.de> <0100017188b6e098-3664a434-f84f-4cb0-9145-e92ed06a3bb5-000000@email.amazonses.com> <20200417154320.mmri3arrl2su733i@anna.jacobs.jacobs-university.de> In-Reply-To: <20200417154320.mmri3arrl2su733i@anna.jacobs.jacobs-university.de> From: Andy Bierman Date: Fri, 17 Apr 2020 08:59:39 -0700 Message-ID: To: Juergen Schoenwaelder , Kent Watsen , "netmod@ietf.org" , draft-ietf-netmod-rfc6991-bis@ietf.org Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="000000000000a0d7ba05a37ea346" Archived-At: Subject: Re: [netmod] Add "token" to rfc6991-bis? (was: Re: Add "node-instance-identifier" to rfc6991-bis?) X-BeenThere: netmod@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: NETMOD WG list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 17 Apr 2020 15:59:54 -0000 --000000000000a0d7ba05a37ea346 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable On Fri, Apr 17, 2020 at 8:43 AM Juergen Schoenwaelder < j.schoenwaelder@jacobs-university.de> wrote: > On Fri, Apr 17, 2020 at 03:16:58PM +0000, Kent Watsen wrote: > > [changing subject line] > > > > > On Apr 17, 2020, at 4:16 AM, Juergen Schoenwaelder < > j.schoenwaelder@jacobs-university.de> wrote: > > > > > > On Fri, Apr 17, 2020 at 01:13:54AM +0000, Kent Watsen wrote: > > >> > > >>>>>> PS: the "token=E2=80=9D type add discussion from before never co= mpleted > (again, modeled after xsd:token) > > >>>> > > >>>> What about this? > > >>>> > > >>> > > >>> What would this type be good for? Any models already using somethin= g > > >>> like this? > > >> > > >> > > >> Not in a standard model, that I=E2=80=99m aware of but, back at Juni= per, I > had a typedef for this that I used as a basis for so many things, but > mostly things intended to be identifiers of sorts, whereby having > whitespace didn=E2=80=99t make sense. > > >> > > > > > > This type does not eliminate whitespace, it only reduces multiple > > > consecutive whitespaces to one. > > > > Leading/trailing whitespace :sigh: Too pedantic much? > > > > Please, think about the gazillion models where there is this: > > > > leaf name { > > type string; > > description =E2=80=9DAn arbitrary name for the=E2=80=A6=E2=80= =9D; > > } > > > > It=E2=80=99s obvious the name shouldn=E2=80=99t contain paragraphs of t= ext or, in > general, non-printable characters of any sort, or preceding/trailing spac= e > characters. Given this preponderance of this use case and the history of > module-writers not defining the necessary pattern statements, a =E2=80=9C= token=E2=80=9D > type would be welcomed. For instance: > > > > leaf name { > > type token; > > description =E2=80=9DAn arbitrary name for the=E2=80=A6=E2=80= =9D; > > } > > > > xsd:token only collapses white space, it does not solve the problem > you are talking about. And some people have argued in the past that > sane operators will not put weird characters into their names. If I > were to define an identifier type, I would consider to disallow white > space instead of collapsing white space. Frankly, if your code can > deal with one whitespace, it likely can deal with two. > The issue (for me) is not whether it is easy or difficult to implement this restriction. There are security issues to consider when the YANG value is extracted from a protocol message and used in other contexts. Special characters such as whitespace can be exploited for data injection attacks, etc. We already have the "yang-identifier" type which is safe to use. > While the LMAP model was developed, I had a restricted identifier type > in the LMAP data model. I then implemented the code to enforce the > restriction. And then I figured out that the code to escape funny > characters was not much longer than the code to reject funny > characters and so I ended up removing the restriction. > > This ties into the discussion whether YANG should do anything about > normalization and so far we always ended up with declaring this to be > an operational problem. If you put non-normalized strings into your > config, you need to be prepared to deal with the consequences. > > Anyway, if we were to address this issue, then xsd:token will most > likely not be the answer. > > /js > > Andy > -- > Juergen Schoenwaelder Jacobs University Bremen gGmbH > Phone: +49 421 200 3587 Campus Ring 1 | 28759 Bremen | Germany > Fax: +49 421 200 3103 > > _______________________________________________ > netmod mailing list > netmod@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/netmod > --000000000000a0d7ba05a37ea346 Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable


=
On Fri, Apr 17, 2020 at 8:43 AM Juerg= en Schoenwaelder <j.schoenwaelder@jacobs-university.de> wrote:
On Fri, Apr 17, 2020 at 03:16:58PM +0= 000, Kent Watsen wrote:
> [changing subject line]
>
> > On Apr 17, 2020, at 4:16 AM, Juergen Schoenwaelder <j.schoenwae= lder@jacobs-university.de> wrote:
> >
> > On Fri, Apr 17, 2020 at 01:13:54AM +0000, Kent Watsen wrote:
> >>
> >>>>>> PS: the "token=E2=80=9D type add discuss= ion from before never completed (again, modeled after xsd:token)
> >>>>
> >>>> What about this?
> >>>>
> >>>
> >>> What would this type be good for? Any models already usin= g something
> >>> like this?
> >>
> >>
> >> Not in a standard model, that I=E2=80=99m aware of but, back = at Juniper, I had a typedef for this that I used as a basis for so many thi= ngs, but mostly things intended to be identifiers of sorts, whereby having = whitespace didn=E2=80=99t make sense.
> >>
> >
> > This type does not eliminate whitespace, it only reduces multiple=
> > consecutive whitespaces to one.
>
> Leading/trailing whitespace :sigh:=C2=A0 Too pedantic much?
>
> Please, think about the gazillion models where there is this:
>
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0leaf name {
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0type string;
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0description =E2=80=9DAn arbitrary nam= e for the=E2=80=A6=E2=80=9D;
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0}
>
> It=E2=80=99s obvious the name shouldn=E2=80=99t contain paragraphs of = text or, in general, non-printable characters of any sort, or preceding/tra= iling space characters.=C2=A0 Given this preponderance of this use case and= the history of module-writers not defining the necessary pattern statement= s, a =E2=80=9Ctoken=E2=80=9D type would be welcomed.=C2=A0 =C2=A0For instan= ce:
>
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0leaf name {
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0type token;
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0description =E2=80=9DAn arbitrary nam= e for the=E2=80=A6=E2=80=9D;
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0}
>

xsd:token only collapses white space, it does not solve the problem
you are talking about. And some people have argued in the past that
sane operators will not put weird characters into their names. If I
were to define an identifier type, I would consider to disallow white
space instead of collapsing white space. Frankly, if your code can
deal with one whitespace, it likely can deal with two.


The issue (for me) is not whether it is easy= or difficult to implement this restriction.
There are security i= ssues to consider when the YANG value is extracted from a
protoco= l message and used in other contexts. Special characters such as whitespace= can
be exploited for data injection attacks, etc.

=
We already have=C2=A0the "yang-identifier" type which = is safe to use.



While the LMAP model was developed, I had a restricted identifier type
in the LMAP data model. I then implemented the code to enforce the
restriction. And then I figured out that the code to escape funny
characters was not much longer than the code to reject funny
characters and so I ended up removing the restriction.

This ties into the discussion whether YANG should do anything about
normalization and so far we always ended up with declaring this to be
an operational problem. If you put non-normalized strings into your
config, you need to be prepared to deal with the consequences.

Anyway, if we were to address this issue, then xsd:token will most
likely not be the answer.

/js



Andy

=C2=A0
--
Juergen Schoenwaelder=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0Jacobs Univer= sity Bremen gGmbH
Phone: +49 421 200 3587=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0Campus Ring 1 | 28= 759 Bremen | Germany
Fax:=C2=A0 =C2=A0+49 421 200 3103=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0<https://www.jacobs-university.de/>

_______________________________________________
netmod mailing list
netmod@ietf.org https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/netmod
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Kucherawy" CC: The IESG , "draft-ietf-netmod-factory-default@ietf.org" , "netmod-chairs@ietf.org" , "netmod@ietf.org" , Kent Watsen Thread-Topic: Murray Kucherawy's No Objection on draft-ietf-netmod-factory-default-14: (with COMMENT) Thread-Index: AdYVYjLUePLKaZjcTZG/tG8KOZXIcQ== Date: Sat, 18 Apr 2020 09:18:47 +0000 Message-ID: Accept-Language: zh-CN, en-US Content-Language: zh-CN X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-originating-ip: [10.138.33.123] Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="_000_B8F9A780D330094D99AF023C5877DABAAD5FBEFDdggeml531mbschi_" MIME-Version: 1.0 X-CFilter-Loop: Reflected Archived-At: Subject: Re: [netmod] Murray Kucherawy's No Objection on draft-ietf-netmod-factory-default-14: (with COMMENT) X-BeenThere: netmod@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: NETMOD WG list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sat, 18 Apr 2020 09:19:00 -0000 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ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3A13D3A0474; Sat, 18 Apr 2020 02:20:20 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.9 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.9 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id ZXDjeDu0mHI5; Sat, 18 Apr 2020 02:20:18 -0700 (PDT) Received: from huawei.com (lhrrgout.huawei.com [185.176.76.210]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id C24EC3A046E; Sat, 18 Apr 2020 02:20:18 -0700 (PDT) Received: from lhreml715-chm.china.huawei.com (unknown [172.18.7.106]) by Forcepoint Email with ESMTP id 118C915DF0761D4E25C7; Sat, 18 Apr 2020 10:20:17 +0100 (IST) Received: from lhreml715-chm.china.huawei.com (10.201.108.66) by lhreml715-chm.china.huawei.com (10.201.108.66) with Microsoft SMTP Server (version=TLS1_2, cipher=TLS_ECDHE_RSA_WITH_AES_128_GCM_SHA256) id 15.1.1913.5; Sat, 18 Apr 2020 10:20:16 +0100 Received: from DGGEML401-HUB.china.huawei.com (10.3.17.32) by lhreml715-chm.china.huawei.com (10.201.108.66) with Microsoft SMTP Server (version=TLS1_0, cipher=TLS_ECDHE_RSA_WITH_AES_128_CBC_SHA) id 15.1.1913.5 via Frontend Transport; Sat, 18 Apr 2020 10:20:16 +0100 Received: from DGGEML531-MBS.china.huawei.com ([169.254.5.134]) by DGGEML401-HUB.china.huawei.com ([fe80::89ed:853e:30a9:2a79%31]) with mapi id 14.03.0487.000; Sat, 18 Apr 2020 17:20:13 +0800 From: Qin Wu To: Barry Leiba , The IESG CC: "draft-ietf-netmod-factory-default@ietf.org" , "netmod-chairs@ietf.org" , "netmod@ietf.org" , Kent Watsen Thread-Topic: Barry Leiba's No Objection on draft-ietf-netmod-factory-default-14: (with COMMENT) Thread-Index: AdYVYmErfu+tZyrwRwiG4det1hxksA== Date: Sat, 18 Apr 2020 09:20:12 +0000 Message-ID: Accept-Language: zh-CN, en-US Content-Language: zh-CN X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-originating-ip: [10.138.33.123] Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-CFilter-Loop: Reflected Archived-At: Subject: Re: [netmod] Barry Leiba's No Objection on draft-ietf-netmod-factory-default-14: (with COMMENT) X-BeenThere: netmod@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: NETMOD WG list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sat, 18 Apr 2020 09:20:21 -0000 VGhhbmtzIEJhcnJ5LCB0aGUgUlBDIGlzIGEgcGFydCBvZiBZQU5HIGRhdGEgbW9kZWwsIHdpbGwg bWVudGlvbiBpdCBhcyBwYXJ0IG9mIFlBTkcgZGF0YSBtb2RlbCBpbiB0aGUgZHJhZnQuDQoNCi0t LS0t6YKu5Lu25Y6f5Lu2LS0tLS0NCuWPkeS7tuS6ujogQmFycnkgTGVpYmEgdmlhIERhdGF0cmFj a2VyIFttYWlsdG86bm9yZXBseUBpZXRmLm9yZ10gDQrlj5HpgIHml7bpl7Q6IDIwMjDlubQ05pyI MTTml6UgMTE6NTkNCuaUtuS7tuS6ujogVGhlIElFU0cgPGllc2dAaWV0Zi5vcmc+DQrmioTpgIE6 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Og0KaHR0cHM6Ly9kYXRhdHJhY2tlci5pZXRmLm9yZy9kb2MvZHJhZnQtaWV0Zi1uZXRtb2QtZmFj dG9yeS1kZWZhdWx0Lw0KDQoNCg0KLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0t LS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLQ0KQ09NTUVOVDoNCi0tLS0tLS0tLS0t LS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0t LS0NCg0KVGhlIEFic3RyYWN0IG1lbnRpb25zIHRoZSBZQU5HIGRhdGEgbW9kZWwgYW5kIHRoZSBk YXRhc3RvcmUsIGJ1dCBub3QgdGhlIEZhY3RvcnktUmVzZXQgUlBDLiAgSSB0aGluayBpdCBzaG91 bGQgbWVudGlvbiB0aGF0IGFzIHdlbGwuDQoNCg0KDQo= From nobody Tue Apr 21 05:51:49 2020 Return-Path: X-Original-To: netmod@ietf.org Delivered-To: netmod@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from ietfa.amsl.com (localhost [IPv6:::1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 842E93A0B81; Tue, 21 Apr 2020 05:51:42 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit From: Roman Danyliw via Datatracker To: "The IESG" Cc: draft-ietf-netmod-factory-default@ietf.org, netmod-chairs@ietf.org, netmod@ietf.org, Kent Watsen , kent+ietf@watsen.net X-Test-IDTracker: no X-IETF-IDTracker: 6.127.0 Auto-Submitted: auto-generated Precedence: bulk Reply-To: Roman Danyliw Message-ID: <158747350209.22509.2374705458402957087@ietfa.amsl.com> Date: Tue, 21 Apr 2020 05:51:42 -0700 Archived-At: Subject: [netmod] Roman Danyliw's Discuss on draft-ietf-netmod-factory-default-14: (with DISCUSS and COMMENT) X-BeenThere: netmod@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 List-Id: NETMOD WG list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 21 Apr 2020 12:51:43 -0000 Roman Danyliw has entered the following ballot position for draft-ietf-netmod-factory-default-14: Discuss When responding, please keep the subject line intact and reply to all email addresses included in the To and CC lines. (Feel free to cut this introductory paragraph, however.) Please refer to https://www.ietf.org/iesg/statement/discuss-criteria.html for more information about IESG DISCUSS and COMMENT positions. The document, along with other ballot positions, can be found here: https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-netmod-factory-default/ ---------------------------------------------------------------------- DISCUSS: ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Please use YANG security considerations template from https://trac.ietf.org/trac/ops/wiki/yang-security-guidelines. Specifically (as a DISCUSS item): ** (Per the template questions “for all YANG modules you must evaluate whether any readable dataâ€) Would factory-default contain any sensitive information in certain network environments where the ACLs should be more restrictive that world readable for everyone? Per “The operational disruption caused by setting the config to factory default contents varies greatly depending on the implementation and current configâ€, it seems like it could be worse than just an operational disruption. Please note that a default configuration could be insecure or not have security controls enabled whereby exposing the network to compromise. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- COMMENT: ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Please use YANG security considerations template from https://trac.ietf.org/trac/ops/wiki/yang-security-guidelines. Specifically (as a COMMENT item): ** Add “The Network Configuration Access Control Model (NACM) [RFC8341] provides the means to …†From nobody Tue Apr 21 06:23:16 2020 Return-Path: X-Original-To: netmod@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: netmod@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6FC053A0C32; Tue, 21 Apr 2020 06:21:38 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.9 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.9 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 9mFjxA63ctgL; Tue, 21 Apr 2020 06:21:36 -0700 (PDT) Received: from huawei.com (lhrrgout.huawei.com [185.176.76.210]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id F0C703A0C42; Tue, 21 Apr 2020 06:20:34 -0700 (PDT) Received: from lhreml704-cah.china.huawei.com (unknown [172.18.7.106]) by Forcepoint Email with ESMTP id 72F95D587FA779B34A61; Tue, 21 Apr 2020 14:20:30 +0100 (IST) Received: from DGGEML421-HUB.china.huawei.com (10.1.199.38) by lhreml704-cah.china.huawei.com (10.201.108.45) with Microsoft SMTP Server (TLS) id 14.3.487.0; Tue, 21 Apr 2020 14:20:30 +0100 Received: from DGGEML511-MBX.china.huawei.com ([169.254.1.248]) by dggeml421-hub.china.huawei.com ([10.1.199.38]) with mapi id 14.03.0487.000; Tue, 21 Apr 2020 21:20:23 +0800 From: Qin Wu To: Roman Danyliw , The IESG CC: "draft-ietf-netmod-factory-default@ietf.org" , "netmod-chairs@ietf.org" , "netmod@ietf.org" , Kent Watsen Thread-Topic: Roman Danyliw's Discuss on draft-ietf-netmod-factory-default-14: (with DISCUSS and COMMENT) Thread-Index: AdYX31BAcjZyyoisREivDOhxrSDBSw== Date: Tue, 21 Apr 2020 13:20:22 +0000 Message-ID: Accept-Language: zh-CN, en-US Content-Language: zh-CN X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-originating-ip: [10.138.33.123] Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-CFilter-Loop: Reflected Archived-At: Subject: Re: [netmod] Roman Danyliw's Discuss on draft-ietf-netmod-factory-default-14: (with DISCUSS and COMMENT) X-BeenThere: netmod@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: NETMOD WG list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 21 Apr 2020 13:21:39 -0000 SGksIFJvbWFuOg0KQSBmZXcgY2xhcmlmaWNhdGlvbiBpbmxpbmUgYmVsb3cuIA0KLS0tLS3pgq7k u7bljp/ku7YtLS0tLQ0K5Y+R5Lu25Lq6OiBSb21hbiBEYW55bGl3IHZpYSBEYXRhdHJhY2tlciBb bWFpbHRvOm5vcmVwbHlAaWV0Zi5vcmddIA0K5Y+R6YCB5pe26Ze0OiAyMDIw5bm0NOaciDIx5pel IDIwOjUyDQrmlLbku7bkuro6IFRoZSBJRVNHIDxpZXNnQGlldGYub3JnPg0K5oqE6YCBOiBkcmFm dC1pZXRmLW5ldG1vZC1mYWN0b3J5LWRlZmF1bHRAaWV0Zi5vcmc7IG5ldG1vZC1jaGFpcnNAaWV0 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nokia.com X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-Network-Message-Id: 9af1ddc5-2892-4571-2849-08d7e6047909 X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-originalarrivaltime: 21 Apr 2020 14:58:37.9436 (UTC) X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-fromentityheader: Hosted X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-id: 5d471751-9675-428d-917b-70f44f9630b0 X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-mailboxtype: HOSTED X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-userprincipalname: V7W7iqTYYbo8Yktr5S5hmEAYHKrfppwCYjOrcIA1zGDpFE5P7zlj8Ca1bgyrhHlfumPTxqhhf2h2IkYDM/Qyhg== X-MS-Exchange-Transport-CrossTenantHeadersStamped: DM5PR08MB3595 Archived-At: Subject: [netmod] yang-module-versioning: max 1 revision label X-BeenThere: netmod@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: NETMOD WG list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 21 Apr 2020 15:06:24 -0000 --_000_DM5PR08MB2633AC25E9FFDE4ADCDB90D79BD50DM5PR08MB2633namp_ Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hi all, We talked about this briefly on our YANG versioning weekly call today, but = we should tighten up this statement down in the YANG module: Each 'revision' statement MAY have a single 'revision-label' subs= tatement. I'd propose this instead: Each 'revision' statement MUST NOT have more than a single 'revis= ion-label' substatement. Similarly in the body of 3.3 we should change this: Each revision entry in a module or submodule MAY have a revision label associated with it, providing an alternative alias to identify a particular revision of a module or submodule. to this: Each revision entry in a module or submodule MAY have a revision label associated with it, providing an alternative alias to identify a particular revision of a module or submodule. There MUST NOT be more than a single 'revision-label' substatement associated with a revision e= ntry. There is a similar minor ambiguity for these items as well: Each 'revision' statement MAY have a single 'nbc-changes' substat= ement. Each 'status' statement MAY have a single 'status-description' su= bstatement. Rgds, Jason --_000_DM5PR08MB2633AC25E9FFDE4ADCDB90D79BD50DM5PR08MB2633namp_ Content-Type: text/html; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

Hi all,

 

We talked about this briefly on= our YANG versioning weekly call today, but we should tighten up this state= ment down in the YANG module:

 

     &= nbsp;    Each 'revision' statement MAY have a single 'revisi= on-label' substatement.

 

I'd propose this instead:<= /o:p>

 

     &= nbsp;    Each 'revision' statement MUST NOT have more than a= single 'revision-label' substatement.

 

Similarly in the body of 3.3 we= should change this:

 

   Each revision entr= y in a module or submodule MAY have a revision

   label associated w= ith it, providing an alternative alias to identify

   a particular revis= ion of a module or submodule.

 

to this:

 

   Each revision entr= y in a module or submodule MAY have a revision

   label associated w= ith it, providing an alternative alias to identify

   a particular revis= ion of a module or submodule. There MUST NOT be more

   than a single 'rev= ision-label' substatement associated with a revision entry.

 

There is a similar minor ambigu= ity for these items as well:

 

     &= nbsp;    Each 'revision' statement MAY have a single 'nbc-ch= anges' substatement.

     &= nbsp;    Each 'status' statement MAY have a single 'status-d= escription' substatement.

 

Rgds,

Jason

--_000_DM5PR08MB2633AC25E9FFDE4ADCDB90D79BD50DM5PR08MB2633namp_-- From nobody Tue Apr 21 08:08:38 2020 Return-Path: X-Original-To: netmod@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: netmod@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7EFDA3A0D2E for ; Tue, 21 Apr 2020 08:08:36 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.897 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.897 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_NONE=0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id vyo-VMQ_39Ru for ; Tue, 21 Apr 2020 08:08:29 -0700 (PDT) Received: from trail.lhotka.name (trail.lhotka.name [77.48.224.143]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4B06A3A040E for ; Tue, 21 Apr 2020 08:03:17 -0700 (PDT) Received: by trail.lhotka.name (Postfix, from userid 109) id D3055860060; Tue, 21 Apr 2020 17:04:42 +0200 (CEST) Received: from localhost (unknown [172.29.2.100]) by trail.lhotka.name (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id E5851860055 for ; Tue, 21 Apr 2020 17:04:41 +0200 (CEST) From: Ladislav Lhotka To: netmod@ietf.org Mail-Followup-To: netmod@ietf.org Date: Tue, 21 Apr 2020 17:03:12 +0200 Message-ID: <87blnkdgpb.fsf@nic.cz> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Archived-At: Subject: [netmod] error on netmod page X-BeenThere: netmod@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: NETMOD WG list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 21 Apr 2020 15:08:37 -0000 Hi, I just noticed that ancient draft draft-ietf-netmod-dsdl-00 suddenly re-appeared among Active Internet-Drafts on the netmod page https://datatracker.ietf.org/wg/netmod/documents/ Has the datatracker gone mad? :-) Lada -- Ladislav Lhotka Head, CZ.NIC Labs PGP Key ID: 0xB8F92B08A9F76C67 From nobody Tue Apr 21 08:28:47 2020 Return-Path: X-Original-To: netmod@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: netmod@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 20ED73A0D6A for ; 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charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable MIME-Version: 1.0 X-OriginatorOrg: btconnect.com X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-Network-Message-Id: ee61c59a-6e74-4958-b919-08d7e6081de6 X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-originalarrivaltime: 21 Apr 2020 15:24:43.0722 (UTC) X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-fromentityheader: Hosted X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-id: cf8853ed-96e5-465b-9185-806bfe185e30 X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-mailboxtype: HOSTED X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-userprincipalname: GQYwcZ9BUZ28rc5wF+2SJL8ePKcldffOLkdzjmspiFoDOJeJ/uTAipD7j5VU0iBnwhDp9aJet99G78l7YU6UKQ== X-MS-Exchange-Transport-CrossTenantHeadersStamped: DB7PR07MB5593 Archived-At: Subject: Re: [netmod] error on netmod page X-BeenThere: netmod@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: NETMOD WG list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 21 Apr 2020 15:28:46 -0000 From: netmod on behalf of Ladislav Lhotka =0A= Sent: 21 April 2020 16:03=0A= Hi,=0A= =0A= I just noticed that ancient draft draft-ietf-netmod-dsdl-00 suddenly re-app= eared among Active Internet-Drafts on the netmod page=0A= =0A= https://datatracker.ietf.org/wg/netmod/documents/=0A= =0A= Has the datatracker gone mad? :-)=0A= =0A= =0A= I-d-announce announced this I-D 19mar20 with a Date within the announcement= of 2008-07-07=0A= =0A= Tom petch=0A= =0A= =0A= =0A= =0A= =0A= Lada=0A= =0A= --=0A= Ladislav Lhotka=0A= Head, CZ.NIC Labs=0A= PGP Key ID: 0xB8F92B08A9F76C67=0A= =0A= _______________________________________________=0A= netmod mailing list=0A= netmod@ietf.org=0A= https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/netmod=0A= From nobody Tue Apr 21 08:56:22 2020 Return-Path: <010001719d742c56-71daa55d-c510-4ab5-937d-fbb2d78017aa-000000@amazonses.watsen.net> X-Original-To: netmod@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: netmod@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id BCB653A0AA6; Tue, 21 Apr 2020 08:56:21 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.896 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.896 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_NONE=0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (1024-bit key) header.d=amazonses.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id jn-Rvt5ChA0f; Tue, 21 Apr 2020 08:56:18 -0700 (PDT) Received: from a8-96.smtp-out.amazonses.com (a8-96.smtp-out.amazonses.com [54.240.8.96]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id ACA673A0CA7; Tue, 21 Apr 2020 08:56:15 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; q=dns/txt; c=relaxed/simple; s=224i4yxa5dv7c2xz3womw6peuasteono; d=amazonses.com; t=1587484569; h=From:Message-Id:Content-Type:Mime-Version:Subject:Date:In-Reply-To:Cc:To:References:Feedback-ID; bh=FQ3F4Ma1xLSIJLCo/cXTN8WgLArZeEz+O9wm83w0c5Q=; b=NGZ4zPFzlV2hu/WVbVo4/uJT64kaS6KsSKKov6tmr0qj2RRqNHHPjRxq706E715B uaZvDwgMoyAwh9QnGBSxdabS1vJckHgH4Rpv2MuO7pLZfKQ0kybEDwrlwsERQ69uUEC M7SHgxXU4XgD7GDkVfyuO/T8Ruo/gM2wlTixQ+sY= From: Kent Watsen Message-ID: <010001719d742c56-71daa55d-c510-4ab5-937d-fbb2d78017aa-000000@email.amazonses.com> Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="Apple-Mail=_2EE12284-AEA8-4DC0-B774-909E9F1FC371" Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 12.4 \(3445.104.11\)) Date: Tue, 21 Apr 2020 15:56:09 +0000 In-Reply-To: Cc: Roman Danyliw , The IESG , "draft-ietf-netmod-factory-default@ietf.org" , "netmod-chairs@ietf.org" , "netmod@ietf.org" To: Qin Wu References: X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.3445.104.11) X-SES-Outgoing: 2020.04.21-54.240.8.96 Feedback-ID: 1.us-east-1.DKmIRZFhhsBhtmFMNikgwZUWVrODEw9qVcPhqJEI2DA=:AmazonSES Archived-At: Subject: Re: [netmod] Roman Danyliw's Discuss on draft-ietf-netmod-factory-default-14: (with DISCUSS and COMMENT) X-BeenThere: netmod@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: NETMOD WG list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 21 Apr 2020 15:56:22 -0000 --Apple-Mail=_2EE12284-AEA8-4DC0-B774-909E9F1FC371 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Hi Roman, > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > DISCUSS: > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- >=20 > Please use YANG security considerations template from = https://trac.ietf.org/trac/ops/wiki/yang-security-guidelines. = Specifically (as a DISCUSS item): >=20 > ** (Per the template questions =E2=80=9Cfor all YANG modules you must = evaluate whether any readable data=E2=80=9D) Would factory-default = contain any sensitive information in certain network environments where = the ACLs should be more restrictive that world readable for everyone? > [Qin]: It does follows yang-security-guidelines but there is no = readable data node defined within rpc, that's why we don't use third = paragraph boilerplate and fourth paragraph boilerplate of = yang-security-guidelines. YANG-security-guidelines are more applicable = to YANG data model with more readable/writable data nodes. > In addition, as clarified in the second paragraph, section 6 of this = draft, NACM can be used to restrict access for particular NETCONF or = RESTCONF users to a preconfigured subset of all available NETCONF or = RESTCONF protocol operations (i.e., factory-reset rpc) >=20 > Per =E2=80=9CThe operational disruption caused by setting the config = to factory default contents varies greatly depending on the = implementation and current config=E2=80=9D, it seems like it could be = worse than just an operational disruption. Please note that a default = configuration could be insecure or not have security controls enabled = whereby exposing the network to compromise. >=20 > [Qin]: As described in the second paragraph of section 6 it by default = restrict access for everyone by using the "default-deny-all" access = control defined [RFC8341], what else does it need to address this = security concern? > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > COMMENT: > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- >=20 > Please use YANG security considerations template from = https://trac.ietf.org/trac/ops/wiki/yang-security-guidelines = . = Specifically (as a COMMENT item): >=20 > ** Add =E2=80=9CThe Network Configuration Access Control Model (NACM) = [RFC8341] provides the means to =E2=80=A6=E2=80=9D >=20 > [Qin]: We did follow this template, I am wondering how it is different = from the second paragraph of section 6? I see they are equivalent but = with more fine granularity security measures, if my understanding is = correct. Regarding the use of the YANG security considerations template from [1], = it has been noted that the template is imperfect in several ways=E2=80=A6 For instance, a YANG module may not define any protocol accessible = nodes (e.g., they only define identities, typedefs, yang-data, or = structures). In another example, the YANG module may only define RPCs = (such as in this case) and/or notifications. In yet another example, = the YANG module may be only for use with RESTCONF (not NETCONF), and = thus mentioning NETCONF at all would be odd (i.e., RFC 8572). In such cases, strict adherence to the template does not make sense. As = chair/shepherd/author, I=E2=80=99ve struggled with how to best satisfy = the intention adequately. Of course, each case varies, but one idea = that I=E2=80=99ve been exploring is to start the section with a = disclaimer explaining why/how template [1] is (or not) followed. This = approach is appealing as it immediately conveys to the IESG that the = template was not ignored. However, it is unappealing in that it may be = wrong for the published Security Considerations section to have a link = to the template. Please advise. Kent // as chair and shepherd [1] https://trac.ietf.org/trac/ops/wiki/yang-security-guidelines = --Apple-Mail=_2EE12284-AEA8-4DC0-B774-909E9F1FC371 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/html; charset=utf-8
Hi Roman,

---------------------------------------------------------------= -------
DISCUSS:
---------------------------------------------------------------= -------

Please use = YANG security considerations template from https://trac.ietf.org/trac/ops/wiki/yang-security-guidelines.  Specifically (as a DISCUSS item):

** (Per the template questions =E2=80=9Cfor all YANG modules = you must evaluate whether any readable data=E2=80=9D) Would = factory-default contain any sensitive information in certain network = environments where the ACLs should be more restrictive that world = readable for everyone?
[Qin]: It does follows yang-security-guidelines but there is = no readable data node defined within rpc, that's why we don't use third = paragraph boilerplate and fourth paragraph boilerplate of = yang-security-guidelines. YANG-security-guidelines are more applicable = to YANG data model with more readable/writable data nodes.
In addition, as clarified in the = second paragraph, section 6 of this draft, NACM can be used to restrict = access for particular NETCONF or RESTCONF users to a preconfigured = subset of all available NETCONF or RESTCONF protocol operations (i.e., = factory-reset rpc)

Per =E2=80=9CThe operational disruption caused by setting the = config to factory default contents varies greatly depending on the = implementation and current config=E2=80=9D, it seems like it could be = worse than just an operational disruption.  Please note that a = default configuration could be insecure or not have security controls = enabled whereby exposing the network to compromise.

[Qin]: As described in the = second paragraph of section 6 it by default restrict access for everyone = by using the "default-deny-all" access control defined [RFC8341], what = else does it need to address this security concern?
---------------------------------------------------------------= -------
COMMENT:
---------------------------------------------------------------= -------

Please use = YANG security considerations template from https://trac.ietf.org/trac/ops/wiki/yang-security-guidelines. =  Specifically (as a COMMENT item):

** Add =E2=80=9CThe Network Configuration Access Control = Model (NACM) [RFC8341] provides the means to =E2=80=A6=E2=80=9D

[Qin]: We did follow this = template, I am wondering how it is different from the second paragraph = of section 6? I see they are equivalent but with more fine granularity = security measures, if my understanding is = correct.


Regarding the use of = the YANG security considerations template from [1], it has = been noted that the template is imperfect in several ways=E2=80=A6

For instance, a YANG = module  may not define any protocol accessible nodes (e.g., they = only define identities, typedefs, yang-data, or structures).  In = another example, the YANG module may only define RPCs (such as in this = case) and/or notifications.  In yet another example, the = YANG module may be only for use with RESTCONF (not NETCONF), and thus = mentioning NETCONF at all would be odd (i.e., RFC 8572).

In such cases, strict = adherence to the template does not make sense.  As = chair/shepherd/author, I=E2=80=99ve struggled with how to best satisfy = the intention adequately.   Of course, each case varies, but one = idea that I=E2=80=99ve been exploring is to start the section with a = disclaimer explaining why/how template [1] is (or not) followed. =  This approach is appealing as it immediately conveys to the IESG = that the template was not ignored.  However, it is unappealing in = that it may be wrong for the published Security Considerations section = to have a link to the template.

Please advise.
Kent =  // as chair and shepherd

[1] https://trac.ietf.org/trac/ops/wiki/yang-security-guidelines





= --Apple-Mail=_2EE12284-AEA8-4DC0-B774-909E9F1FC371-- From nobody Tue Apr 21 09:20:41 2020 Return-Path: X-Original-To: netmod@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: netmod@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 992753A0DA4 for ; Tue, 21 Apr 2020 09:20:39 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.887 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.887 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, T_SPF_PERMERROR=0.01, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=unavailable autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=yumaworks-com.20150623.gappssmtp.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id Y1GCpIuCgf8N for ; Tue, 21 Apr 2020 09:20:35 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail-yb1-xb2e.google.com (mail-yb1-xb2e.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:4864:20::b2e]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id E7AC03A0D91 for ; Tue, 21 Apr 2020 09:20:34 -0700 (PDT) Received: by mail-yb1-xb2e.google.com with SMTP id f13so7603244ybk.7 for ; Tue, 21 Apr 2020 09:20:34 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=yumaworks-com.20150623.gappssmtp.com; s=20150623; h=mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date:message-id:subject:to :cc; bh=jLdF29kDKCpHHZlhWLOLmXtv8q5MmOOxKMVjwyX2DvQ=; b=PHq/5uXKbRh5W+QqnLZIljJYyoJQlNk3eAOeg0sLmjMyuhIgikZzLjioqE7hUnUwTA 3D5gdJtFx8YlmAc+ouZsm8zn6kGoN7N9MQSEcf7CagYdNIvuEh84gt/nvF40g35xorQ8 FLp4NfQe2Y5AuHyWt4YPMU4DkZlyrsOI1mqIba68ICn0XDkINO0ze0T8LySWjrmNC/Rf SdEWYU8I0p/wmog5xEjOo26+iafDdXdGVBRfuU/stJAEKjUNIuZul7o9cV4cDm+OE537 16d86wjz+/4xLW/7EC+TWYecg1ogBxLsCli6xAptuqAQCSPn8YGaZMQZ/STCAfmicN41 emeA== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date :message-id:subject:to:cc; bh=jLdF29kDKCpHHZlhWLOLmXtv8q5MmOOxKMVjwyX2DvQ=; b=COCgMq5exl6GsDGjsnlMScHxfJ7GEqNogZUrt+Az2AzYBzvm2Pf5YLPTMomU06xkxm cU2X4cv303iIEq1HsIVWtMWx/oCO7y+NURDIAZAWr9XV4tx4vGmslnoZErJVRJkUBhsS RH4VSN46WAuCIf8ZvKTpTih9uD/0LA+tCdXjOqAUTtV1f8mSJO9U/h2SqsDMuWOoG9g/ Ts7fCNt7xtHeBiNMnIy8itubFZvfyowKmzS5sZX/hjyHLC7CWhQpsxuh+H8a8b2A+5MI z7aFrxlSpq96RHJU8nDwWooG/obXv43A8azd05voj/GkVjJ+eqBH6MURCsfbwi0Maj5E lQBQ== X-Gm-Message-State: AGi0PuaNVMOjW+HTl8C4LiLRSvRBfHJDu6HB309/YuubzVexM2El8Ua5 jkmDIIAv8je+J4J79d3XE9OizGYrAl6lAG4H30bBDg== X-Google-Smtp-Source: APiQypL4PwtgO0F58+jUZ3v/lawZ1bxsUDfaIAGZwWNZL2Sjl+OkTqjPExpVlklvIoOeDnkMqjPZZocqMslry//bJTI= X-Received: by 2002:a5b:cd0:: with SMTP id e16mr5393448ybr.107.1587486030569; Tue, 21 Apr 2020 09:20:30 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 References: <010001719d742c56-71daa55d-c510-4ab5-937d-fbb2d78017aa-000000@email.amazonses.com> In-Reply-To: <010001719d742c56-71daa55d-c510-4ab5-937d-fbb2d78017aa-000000@email.amazonses.com> From: Andy Bierman Date: Tue, 21 Apr 2020 09:20:19 -0700 Message-ID: To: Kent Watsen Cc: Qin Wu , Roman Danyliw , "netmod-chairs@ietf.org" , The IESG , "netmod@ietf.org" , "draft-ietf-netmod-factory-default@ietf.org" Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="000000000000f0394105a3cf64a0" Archived-At: Subject: Re: [netmod] Roman Danyliw's Discuss on draft-ietf-netmod-factory-default-14: (with DISCUSS and COMMENT) X-BeenThere: netmod@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: NETMOD WG list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 21 Apr 2020 16:20:40 -0000 --000000000000f0394105a3cf64a0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable On Tue, Apr 21, 2020 at 8:56 AM Kent Watsen wrote: > Hi Roman, > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > DISCUSS: > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > > Please use YANG security considerations template from > https://trac.ietf.org/trac/ops/wiki/yang-security-guidelines. > Specifically (as a DISCUSS item): > > ** (Per the template questions =E2=80=9Cfor all YANG modules you must eva= luate > whether any readable data=E2=80=9D) Would factory-default contain any sen= sitive > information in certain network environments where the ACLs should be more > restrictive that world readable for everyone? > [Qin]: It does follows yang-security-guidelines but there is no readable > data node defined within rpc, that's why we don't use third paragraph > boilerplate and fourth paragraph boilerplate of yang-security-guidelines. > YANG-security-guidelines are more applicable to YANG data model with more > readable/writable data nodes. > In addition, as clarified in the second paragraph, section 6 of this > draft, NACM can be used to restrict access for particular NETCONF or > RESTCONF users to a preconfigured subset of all available NETCONF or > RESTCONF protocol operations (i.e., factory-reset rpc) > > Per =E2=80=9CThe operational disruption caused by setting the config to f= actory > default contents varies greatly depending on the implementation and curre= nt > config=E2=80=9D, it seems like it could be worse than just an operational > disruption. Please note that a default configuration could be insecure o= r > not have security controls enabled whereby exposing the network to > compromise. > > [Qin]: As described in the second paragraph of section 6 it by default > restrict access for everyone by using the "default-deny-all" access contr= ol > defined [RFC8341], what else does it need to address this security concer= n? > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > COMMENT: > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > > Please use YANG security considerations template from > https://trac.ietf.org/trac/ops/wiki/yang-security-guidelines. > Specifically (as a COMMENT item): > > ** Add =E2=80=9CThe Network Configuration Access Control Model (NACM) [RF= C8341] > provides the means to =E2=80=A6=E2=80=9D > > [Qin]: We did follow this template, I am wondering how it is different > from the second paragraph of section 6? I see they are equivalent but wit= h > more fine granularity security measures, if my understanding is correct. > > > > Regarding the use of the YANG security considerations template from [1], > it has been noted that the template is imperfect in several ways=E2=80=A6 > > For instance, a YANG module may not define any protocol accessible nodes > (e.g., they only define identities, typedefs, yang-data, or structures). > In another example, the YANG module may only define RPCs (such as in this > case) and/or notifications. In yet another example, the YANG module may = be > only for use with RESTCONF (not NETCONF), and thus mentioning NETCONF at > all would be odd (i.e., RFC 8572). > > In such cases, strict adherence to the template does not make sense. As > chair/shepherd/author, I=E2=80=99ve struggled with how to best satisfy th= e > intention adequately. Of course, each case varies, but one idea that I= =E2=80=99ve > been exploring is to start the section with a disclaimer explaining why/h= ow > template [1] is (or not) followed. This approach is appealing as it > immediately conveys to the IESG that the template was not ignored. > However, it is unappealing in that it may be wrong for the published > Security Considerations section to have a link to the template. > > Section 3 defines a factory-default datastore. This exposes the factory default values of all configuration data nodes. It seems like this should be mentioned in security considerations. The template is a guideline, nothing more. IMO even a typedef can require some security documentation: typedef password { type string; description "contains the text password for access to all confidential server data"; } Please advise. > Kent // as chair and shepherd > > Andy > [1] https://trac.ietf.org/trac/ops/wiki/yang-security-guidelines > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > netmod mailing list > netmod@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/netmod > --000000000000f0394105a3cf64a0 Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable


=
On Tue, Apr 21, 2020 at 8:56 AM Kent = Watsen <kent+ietf@watsen.net> wrote:
Hi Roman,

<= blockquote type=3D"cite">
----------------------------------------------------------------------
DI= SCUSS:
---------------------------------------------------------------------= -

Please use YANG security considerations template from = https://trac.ietf.org/trac/ops/wiki/yang-security-guideline= s.=C2=A0 Specifically (as a DISCUSS item):
** (Per t= he template questions =E2=80=9Cfor all YANG modules you must evaluate wheth= er any readable data=E2=80=9D) Would factory-default contain any sensitive = information in certain network environments where the ACLs should be more r= estrictive that world readable for everyone?
[Qin]: It does follows yang-sec= urity-guidelines but there is no readable data node defined within rpc, tha= t's why we don't use third paragraph boilerplate and fourth paragra= ph boilerplate of yang-security-guidelines. YANG-security-guidelines are mo= re applicable to YANG data model with more readable/writable data nodes.
In = addition, as clarified in the second paragraph, section 6 of this draft, NA= CM can be used to restrict access for particular NETCONF or RESTCONF users = to a preconfigured subset of all available NETCONF or RESTCONF protocol ope= rations (i.e., factory-reset rpc)

Per =E2=80=9CThe opera= tional disruption caused by setting the config to factory default contents = varies greatly depending on the implementation and current config=E2=80=9D,= it seems like it could be worse than just an operational disruption.=C2=A0= Please note that a default configuration could be insecure or not have sec= urity controls enabled whereby exposing the network to compromise.
[Qin]: As described in the second paragraph of section 6 it by d= efault restrict access for everyone by using the "default-deny-all&quo= t; access control defined [RFC8341], what else does it need to address this= security concern?
---------------------------------------------------------= -------------
COMMENT:
------------------------------------------------------= ----------------

Please use YANG security consideration= s template from=C2=A0https://trac.ietf.org/t= rac/ops/wiki/yang-security-guidelines.=C2=A0 Specifically (as a COMMENT item):

= ** Add =E2=80=9CThe Network Configuration Access Control Model (NACM) [RFC8= 341] provides the means to =E2=80=A6=E2=80=9D
[Qin]: We = did follow this template, I am wondering how it is different from the secon= d paragraph of section 6? I see they are equivalent but with more fine gran= ularity security measures, if my understanding is correct.


Regarding the use of the=C2=A0Y= ANG security considerations template from=C2=A0[1], it has been noted that = the template is imperfect in several ways=E2=80=A6

For i= nstance, a YANG module =C2=A0may not define any protocol accessible nodes (= e.g., they only define identities, typedefs, yang-data, or structures).=C2= =A0 In another example, the YANG module may only define RPCs (such as in th= is case) and/or notifications.=C2=A0 In yet=C2=A0another=C2=A0example, the = YANG module may be only for use with RESTCONF (not NETCONF), and thus menti= oning NETCONF at all would be odd (i.e., RFC 8572).

In such cases, strict adherence to the template does not make sense.=C2= =A0 As chair/shepherd/author, I=E2=80=99ve struggled with how to best satis= fy the intention adequately. =C2=A0 Of course, each case varies, but one id= ea that I=E2=80=99ve been exploring is to start the section with a disclaim= er explaining why/how template [1] is (or not) followed.=C2=A0 This approac= h is appealing as it immediately conveys to the IESG that the template was = not ignored.=C2=A0 However, it is unappealing in that it may be wrong for t= he published Security Considerations section to have a link to the template= .


<= div>
Section 3 defines a factory-default datastore.
This exposes the factory default values of all configuration data nodes.
It seems like this should be mentioned in security considerations.=

The template is a guideline, nothing more.
<= div>
IMO even a typedef can require some security documentati= on:

=C2=A0 =C2=A0typedef password {
=C2= =A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0type string;
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0d= escription=C2=A0
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0"contains= the text password for access to all confidential server data";
<= div>=C2=A0 =C2=A0}



Please advise.
Kent =C2= =A0// as chair and shepherd

=


Andy
=
=C2=A0
____________________= ___________________________
netmod mailing list
netmod@ietf.org https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/netmod
--000000000000f0394105a3cf64a0-- From nobody Tue Apr 21 23:44:42 2020 Return-Path: X-Original-To: netmod@ietf.org Delivered-To: netmod@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from ietfa.amsl.com (localhost [IPv6:::1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id CC2793A0849; Tue, 21 Apr 2020 23:44:31 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit From: =?utf-8?q?=C3=89ric_Vyncke_via_Datatracker?= To: "The IESG" Cc: draft-ietf-netmod-factory-default@ietf.org, netmod-chairs@ietf.org, netmod@ietf.org, Kent Watsen , kent+ietf@watsen.net X-Test-IDTracker: no X-IETF-IDTracker: 6.127.0 Auto-Submitted: auto-generated Precedence: bulk Reply-To: =?utf-8?q?=C3=89ric_Vyncke?= Message-ID: <158753787180.21081.13147368257117081321@ietfa.amsl.com> Date: Tue, 21 Apr 2020 23:44:31 -0700 Archived-At: Subject: [netmod] =?utf-8?q?=C3=89ric_Vyncke=27s_No_Objection_on_draft-ie?= =?utf-8?q?tf-netmod-factory-default-14=3A_=28with_COMMENT=29?= X-BeenThere: netmod@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 List-Id: NETMOD WG list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 22 Apr 2020 06:44:32 -0000 Éric Vyncke has entered the following ballot position for draft-ietf-netmod-factory-default-14: No Objection When responding, please keep the subject line intact and reply to all email addresses included in the To and CC lines. (Feel free to cut this introductory paragraph, however.) Please refer to https://www.ietf.org/iesg/statement/discuss-criteria.html for more information about IESG DISCUSS and COMMENT positions. The document, along with other ballot positions, can be found here: https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-netmod-factory-default/ ---------------------------------------------------------------------- COMMENT: ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Thank you for the work put into this document. The document is clear, easy to read and quite useful. Please find below some non-blocking COMMENTs. An answer will be appreciated. I also support Barry's comment. I hope that this helps to improve the document, Regards, -éric == COMMENTS == If the "factory-default" is optional (per section 3), then it may be worth to specify this quality in the abstract and in the introduction. -- Section 2 -- What happens with the different counters in the data store ? Why is this a SHOULD for overwritting sensitive data and not a MUST? At least section 6 writes that "owner of the device MUST NOT rely on any sensitive data (e.g., private keys) being forensically unrecoverable" From nobody Wed Apr 22 02:37:27 2020 Return-Path: X-Original-To: netmod@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: netmod@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6B2A83A0C7A; Wed, 22 Apr 2020 02:35:57 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.899 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.899 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id BkCBHXE1oo8T; Wed, 22 Apr 2020 02:35:54 -0700 (PDT) Received: from huawei.com (lhrrgout.huawei.com [185.176.76.210]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client 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Wu To: Andy Bierman , Kent Watsen CC: Roman Danyliw , "netmod-chairs@ietf.org" , The IESG , "netmod@ietf.org" , "draft-ietf-netmod-factory-default@ietf.org" Thread-Topic: [netmod] Roman Danyliw's Discuss on draft-ietf-netmod-factory-default-14: (with DISCUSS and COMMENT) Thread-Index: AdYYhlG10Ird4QgrRq6qPSUUjWRu2A== Date: Wed, 22 Apr 2020 09:35:42 +0000 Message-ID: Accept-Language: zh-CN, en-US Content-Language: zh-CN X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-originating-ip: [10.138.33.123] Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="_000_B8F9A780D330094D99AF023C5877DABAAD62582Adggeml511mbxchi_" MIME-Version: 1.0 X-CFilter-Loop: Reflected Archived-At: Subject: Re: [netmod] Roman Danyliw's Discuss on draft-ietf-netmod-factory-default-14: (with DISCUSS and COMMENT) X-BeenThere: netmod@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: NETMOD WG list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 22 Apr 2020 09:35:58 -0000 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X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-originalarrivaltime: 22 Apr 2020 13:35:29.5539 (UTC) X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-fromentityheader: Hosted X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-id: 5ae1af62-9505-4097-a69a-c1553ef7840e X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-mailboxtype: HOSTED X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-userprincipalname: QhDfZVR12ZGvJPrg1HLMhkkUq9NXvUjCI+z7+8yrkYWTt9oLAhmu5HSfaFaG6IAdM8opOArM9Ay92uDOOOkSaQ== X-MS-Exchange-Transport-CrossTenantHeadersStamped: BY5PR11MB4497 X-OriginatorOrg: cisco.com X-Outbound-SMTP-Client: 173.36.7.15, xch-aln-005.cisco.com X-Outbound-Node: alln-core-2.cisco.com Archived-At: Subject: Re: [netmod] Roman Danyliw's Discuss on draft-ietf-netmod-factory-default-14: (with DISCUSS and COMMENT) X-BeenThere: netmod@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: NETMOD WG list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 22 Apr 2020 13:35:37 -0000 --_000_BY5PR11MB4355E16D08FD4B8EAAC1CFF0B5D20BY5PR11MB4355namp_ Content-Type: 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YWwiIHN0eWxlPSJtYXJnaW4tbGVmdDozNi4wcHQiPjxvOnA+Jm5ic3A7PC9vOnA+PC9wPg0KPC9k aXY+DQo8ZGl2Pg0KPHAgY2xhc3M9Ik1zb05vcm1hbCIgc3R5bGU9Im1hcmdpbi1sZWZ0OjM2LjBw dCI+PG86cD4mbmJzcDs8L286cD48L3A+DQo8L2Rpdj4NCjwvZGl2Pg0KPC9kaXY+DQo8L2Rpdj4N CjxkaXY+DQo8cCBjbGFzcz0iTXNvTm9ybWFsIiBzdHlsZT0ibWFyZ2luLWxlZnQ6MzYuMHB0Ij48 bzpwPiZuYnNwOzwvbzpwPjwvcD4NCjwvZGl2Pg0KPGRpdj4NCjxwIGNsYXNzPSJNc29Ob3JtYWwi IHN0eWxlPSJtYXJnaW4tbGVmdDozNi4wcHQiPjxvOnA+Jm5ic3A7PC9vOnA+PC9wPg0KPC9kaXY+ DQo8L2Rpdj4NCjxwIGNsYXNzPSJNc29Ob3JtYWwiIHN0eWxlPSJtYXJnaW4tbGVmdDozNi4wcHQi PjxvOnA+Jm5ic3A7PC9vOnA+PC9wPg0KPC9kaXY+DQo8L2Rpdj4NCjwvYm9keT4NCjwvaHRtbD4N Cg== --_000_BY5PR11MB4355E16D08FD4B8EAAC1CFF0B5D20BY5PR11MB4355namp_-- From nobody Wed Apr 22 08:54:55 2020 Return-Path: <01000171a299113b-44c32323-8efd-4066-9002-bf871f42b7b8-000000@amazonses.watsen.net> X-Original-To: netmod@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: netmod@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4023A3A0F46; Wed, 22 Apr 2020 08:54:36 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.897 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.897 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_NONE=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (1024-bit key) header.d=amazonses.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id KMI47f_mvXZw; Wed, 22 Apr 2020 08:54:34 -0700 (PDT) Received: from a8-88.smtp-out.amazonses.com (a8-88.smtp-out.amazonses.com [54.240.8.88]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 10BFE3A0F45; Wed, 22 Apr 2020 08:54:33 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; q=dns/txt; c=relaxed/simple; s=224i4yxa5dv7c2xz3womw6peuasteono; d=amazonses.com; t=1587570872; h=From:Message-Id:Content-Type:Mime-Version:Subject:Date:In-Reply-To:Cc:To:References:Feedback-ID; bh=rWot6NmcSSJyFIkK3kKUJtsH3nXyk3m6AhO/GwzsGWM=; b=TmcLgr+wlk9qGIvrZdmlCKlZdwLv+qvQ7FJCmVNtanyf+3pxCoVEDCTl9wohcrZs rpcvipcP6vjp1Q70piUSLPAsSaX5H98+EWvuWA+ZbvJRwf4F4zsU/4UgtP1j4386wW7 VdR43fz3RNyK8Yr6/83gilRySiHnXth2un1TY0sA= From: Kent Watsen Message-ID: <01000171a299113b-44c32323-8efd-4066-9002-bf871f42b7b8-000000@email.amazonses.com> Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="Apple-Mail=_0C00133B-C4A8-4492-ADC3-BF460314B121" Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 12.4 \(3445.104.11\)) Date: Wed, 22 Apr 2020 15:54:32 +0000 In-Reply-To: Cc: Qin Wu , Roman Danyliw , "netmod-chairs@ietf.org" , The IESG , "netmod@ietf.org" , "draft-ietf-netmod-factory-default@ietf.org" To: "Rob Wilton (rwilton)" References: <010001719d742c56-71daa55d-c510-4ab5-937d-fbb2d78017aa-000000@email.amazonses.com> X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.3445.104.11) X-SES-Outgoing: 2020.04.22-54.240.8.88 Feedback-ID: 1.us-east-1.DKmIRZFhhsBhtmFMNikgwZUWVrODEw9qVcPhqJEI2DA=:AmazonSES Archived-At: Subject: Re: [netmod] Roman Danyliw's Discuss on draft-ietf-netmod-factory-default-14: (with DISCUSS and COMMENT) X-BeenThere: netmod@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: NETMOD WG list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 22 Apr 2020 15:54:37 -0000 --Apple-Mail=_0C00133B-C4A8-4492-ADC3-BF460314B121 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 [Roman: for this draft, the takeaway is that Qin=E2=80=99s section = deviates from the template because the module doesn=E2=80=99t define all = the parts typically found in a YANG module] Hi Rob, > [RW] > Perhaps add such as section in [], and mark it to be removed before = publication. > =20 > E.g. [RFC Editor: Please remove this comment before publication. For = reviewers: This section has been modified from the standard template = because =E2=80=A6] Yes, this idea was coming to me as I was writing the above, but I = thought it useful still to agree that the RFCs should never be published = with a reference to the template, whether or not the Security = Considerations section conforms to it or not. > I=E2=80=99m obviously not saying that we need to do this for this = document, just as a suggestion for future documents. Agreed. > =20 > Regards, > Rob Kent // as chair and shepherd --Apple-Mail=_0C00133B-C4A8-4492-ADC3-BF460314B121 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/html; charset=utf-8
[Roman: for this draft, the takeaway is that Qin=E2=80=99s = section deviates from the template because the module doesn=E2=80=99t = define all the parts typically found in a YANG module]


Hi = Rob,

[RW]

Perhaps add such as = section in [], and mark it to be removed before publication.

 

E.g. [RFC Editor: Please = remove this comment before publication. For reviewers:  This = section has been modified from the standard template because = =E2=80=A6]


Yes, this idea was coming to me as I was writing = the above, but I thought it useful still to agree that the RFCs should = never be published with a reference to the template, whether or not the = Security Considerations section conforms to it or not.


I=E2=80=99m obviously = not saying that we need to do this for this document, just as a = suggestion for future = documents.


Agreed.

 

Regards,
Rob


Kent  // as chair and shepherd


= --Apple-Mail=_0C00133B-C4A8-4492-ADC3-BF460314B121-- From nobody Wed Apr 22 12:41:42 2020 Return-Path: X-Original-To: netmod@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: netmod@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8D55F3A046E; Wed, 22 Apr 2020 12:41:30 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.1 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.1 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_EF=-0.1, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=cooperw.in header.b=Z0Wy7b6y; dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=messagingengine.com header.b=W38qXEXo Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id Jm2Np8kt31mr; Wed, 22 Apr 2020 12:41:27 -0700 (PDT) Received: from out5-smtp.messagingengine.com (out5-smtp.messagingengine.com [66.111.4.29]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher AECDH-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 527753A052C; Wed, 22 Apr 2020 12:41:24 -0700 (PDT) Received: from compute4.internal (compute4.nyi.internal [10.202.2.44]) by mailout.nyi.internal (Postfix) with ESMTP id 677D35C0272; Wed, 22 Apr 2020 15:41:23 -0400 (EDT) Received: from mailfrontend2 ([10.202.2.163]) by compute4.internal (MEProxy); Wed, 22 Apr 2020 15:41:23 -0400 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=cooperw.in; h= content-type:mime-version:subject:from:in-reply-to:date:cc :content-transfer-encoding:message-id:references:to; s=fm2; bh=6 JIcra0Tkufowb+KahRidJFS75aL9UHKQiZkd+6l8k0=; b=Z0Wy7b6yLCqzFYbgZ uZHn5+5xdEhchelHZsGe0fHi8h5wf90/ESEOMLEKRDRqH7/5ZvCLfHNCBhjGu4lU P/D588B6brHt12sniU8WLjhAYb4eAuBcLCHn11OuQXmtxnOsLEMy/AHwUrlyWeOL tcx2xG80vPsoJrvtyKOENL0t3sDr3dRuMGzqnmMOxpCy4IWDWlJTLXu0anmp0Jpe s5++AHyO3QHSRjfotADP+4wkxtDSqUd2jLOD44G72uxi7jGhLuK++DnE1O6zbS/H aNZbexE2jTjZllfT7R0Y1adsRz+3Nc/eeuj9RHexhy3n9sZnjtP9sbI3w4gf6BNk zXarg== DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d= messagingengine.com; h=cc:content-transfer-encoding:content-type :date:from:in-reply-to:message-id:mime-version:references :subject:to:x-me-proxy:x-me-proxy:x-me-sender:x-me-sender :x-sasl-enc; s=fm2; bh=6JIcra0Tkufowb+KahRidJFS75aL9UHKQiZkd+6l8 k0=; b=W38qXEXoQ733kFcyS1byeljLrm5hRv9dSGPliPc5JzwJiRkMSpVqJCS0W l96axHkrQRFesCyJKV525E7WjaWv624x3O0QnZPugtM31ErtPg/8iuK4Ryj192gJ cJNTFmNqnJyT1/tNPni+d1BQdCHmTMUjstqTFccOMRyyCYmDZ6KB52CQU952Q9g4 ekbYvoCS7em9UN2Ibc++YNFQ+p+04aFIqD04SMhBRClEW5HSE5dsgu26/U4+ALY0 pQ9IOHwgGtaYlhDFtrtMXtnMSjGy925erECqln3zlW1eBeAnZHHnnbIjpxb5snyC 3BFYgVThQSLIG9cVbf+vev1Aizlfw== X-ME-Sender: X-ME-Proxy-Cause: gggruggvucftvghtrhhoucdtuddrgeduhedrgeejgdduvdelucetufdoteggodetrfdotf fvucfrrhhofhhilhgvmecuhfgrshhtofgrihhlpdfqfgfvpdfurfetoffkrfgpnffqhgen uceurghilhhouhhtmecufedttdenucesvcftvggtihhpihgvnhhtshculddquddttddmne cujfgurheptggguffhjgffgffkfhfvofesthhqmhdthhdtjeenucfhrhhomheptehlihhs shgrucevohhophgvrhcuoegrlhhishhsrgestghoohhpvghrfidrihhnqeenucffohhmrg hinhepihgvthhfrdhorhhgnecukfhppedujeefrdefkedruddujedrjeeknecuvehluhhs thgvrhfuihiivgeptdenucfrrghrrghmpehmrghilhhfrhhomheprghlihhsshgrsegtoh hophgvrhifrdhinh X-ME-Proxy: Received: from rtp-alcoop-nitro2.cisco.com (unknown [173.38.117.78]) by mail.messagingengine.com (Postfix) with ESMTPA id B3BE83065CDE; Wed, 22 Apr 2020 15:41:22 -0400 (EDT) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 11.5 \(3445.9.5\)) From: Alissa Cooper In-Reply-To: Date: Wed, 22 Apr 2020 15:41:21 -0400 Cc: "gen-art@ietf.org" , "last-call@ietf.org" , "draft-ietf-netmod-factory-default.all@ietf.org" , "netmod@ietf.org" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Message-Id: <82630369-489D-4E1E-8897-C17CBC6F4B70@cooperw.in> References: To: Qin Wu , Stewart Bryant X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.3445.9.5) Archived-At: Subject: Re: [netmod] [Gen-art] Genart last call review of draft-ietf-netmod-factory-default-14 X-BeenThere: netmod@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: NETMOD WG list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 22 Apr 2020 19:41:31 -0000 Stewart, thanks for your review. Qin, thanks for your response. I = entered a No Objection ballot. Alissa > On Mar 13, 2020, at 8:26 AM, Qin Wu wrote: >=20 > Thanks Stewart for a good review, see reply inline below. >=20 > -----=E9=82=AE=E4=BB=B6=E5=8E=9F=E4=BB=B6----- > =E5=8F=91=E4=BB=B6=E4=BA=BA: Stewart Bryant via Datatracker = [mailto:noreply@ietf.org]=20 > =E5=8F=91=E9=80=81=E6=97=B6=E9=97=B4: 2020=E5=B9=B43=E6=9C=8812=E6=97=A5= 21:12 > =E6=94=B6=E4=BB=B6=E4=BA=BA: gen-art@ietf.org > =E6=8A=84=E9=80=81: netmod@ietf.org; last-call@ietf.org; = draft-ietf-netmod-factory-default.all@ietf.org > =E4=B8=BB=E9=A2=98: Genart last call review of = draft-ietf-netmod-factory-default-14 >=20 > Reviewer: Stewart Bryant > Review result: Ready >=20 > I am the assigned Gen-ART reviewer for this draft. The General Area = Review Team (Gen-ART) reviews all IETF documents being processed by the = IESG for the IETF Chair. Please treat these comments just like any = other last call comments. >=20 > For more information, please see the FAQ at >=20 > . >=20 > Document: draft-ietf-netmod-factory-default-14 > Reviewer: Stewart Bryant > Review Date: 2020-03-12 > IETF LC End Date: 2020-03-16 > IESG Telechat date: Not scheduled for a telechat >=20 > Summary: A well written document that is pretty much ready to go. I = only have one concern and that is whether the overwrite pattern needs = some text so that it does not accidentally become a covert channel. >=20 > Major issues: None >=20 > Minor issues: >=20 > "All security sensitive data (i.e., private keys, passwords, etc.) = SHOULD be overwritten with zeros or a pattern before deletion. " >=20 > "a pattern" is possibly vague, and care needs to be taken that this is = not a covert channel. Possibly it needs to say something like "an = implementation specific common pattern"? >=20 > [Qin]: The proposed change works for me, maybe "common" should also be = removed. > Nits/editorial comments: >=20 > Nits contains a warning about references, but one concerns text that = will removed, and the other is a format error that will be fixed in = publication > [Qin]:Correct, YANG library reference is unused and should be removed.=20= > I saw the SecDir comment on RPC. This is a starred term in the = abbreviation list and does not technically need expanding. > [Qin]: Right, RPC is an existing term that is defined in RFC7950, = which doesn't need to be expanded. >=20 > _______________________________________________ > Gen-art mailing list > Gen-art@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/gen-art From nobody Wed Apr 22 14:17:51 2020 Return-Path: X-Original-To: netmod@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: netmod@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 18C193A0A81 for ; Wed, 22 Apr 2020 14:17:42 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -0.198 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-0.198 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_20=-0.001, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_EF=-0.1, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_NONE=0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (1024-bit key) header.d=hq.sk Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id QCmX3niPigcs for ; Wed, 22 Apr 2020 14:17:38 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail.hq.sk (hq.sk [81.89.59.181]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ADH-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 4CA2D3A0A90 for ; Wed, 22 Apr 2020 14:17:35 -0700 (PDT) Received: from nitebug.nitenet.local (chello085216197060.chello.sk [85.216.197.60]) by mail.hq.sk (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 344D1241FED for ; Wed, 22 Apr 2020 23:17:32 +0200 (CEST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/simple; d=hq.sk; s=mail; t=1587590252; bh=0LTzX4avexda4RmE+ETROOVMHNanuB3mXCvqlK6eAFY=; h=To:From:Subject:Date; b=lZPEHdMT+XGvFgXhgc1wHeO+2cG38BBkDeB5mbMLRYqt/xQqs9WUp1rIAYl2viupE fgfHBj0dCxtMtqmUeWABQDlY+hRG9qQVdRinPtOEbqFU8oSn8pOB5/Md56M238ftdH RduXbuVcmphB+H25C0Te62c39dZMQt06tY5vKfJk= To: "netmod@ietf.org" From: Robert Varga Message-ID: Date: Wed, 22 Apr 2020 23:17:26 +0200 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; Linux x86_64; rv:68.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/68.7.0 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/signed; micalg=pgp-sha512; protocol="application/pgp-signature"; boundary="EUCRqPb7Nh938OkQapZMzFsAKE8y5UXcN" Archived-At: Subject: [netmod] "uint24" in rfc6991-bis? X-BeenThere: netmod@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: NETMOD WG list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 22 Apr 2020 21:17:49 -0000 This is an OpenPGP/MIME signed message (RFC 4880 and 3156) --EUCRqPb7Nh938OkQapZMzFsAKE8y5UXcN Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="PFZP2D7glSjYH7B8Tx50FeKNdmPWjiE66" --PFZP2D7glSjYH7B8Tx50FeKNdmPWjiE66 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Language: en-US Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hello, a number of IETF protocols-and-whatnots are operating on unsigned 24bit (or 3-octet) entities. For example: https://tools.ietf.org/html/rfc7471#section-4.1.5 https://tools.ietf.org/html/rfc7471#section-4.4.5 SRGB range start/length in https://tools.ietf.org/html/rfc8669 I wonder whether it would make sense to provide something like: type uint24 { type uint32; range 0..16777215; } in ietf-inet-types as a common base type for such definitions. Regards, Robert --PFZP2D7glSjYH7B8Tx50FeKNdmPWjiE66-- --EUCRqPb7Nh938OkQapZMzFsAKE8y5UXcN Content-Type: application/pgp-signature; name="signature.asc" Content-Description: OpenPGP digital signature Content-Disposition: attachment; filename="signature.asc" -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- iQI/BAEBCgApFiEEdj+N7pgGP1gKvbdQJKB0S2uuNdsFAl6gtGYLHG5pdGVAaHEu c2sACgkQJKB0S2uuNdvNyg//VbUzlwTyURSLSqAHMhD1OKujF5iupHzkwb0C3uE0 xPrCPcsTPgqPjD4dBUKyoQddNsYeyTwAtPSY3pCUb6/nkMex8Cu89a8OtVQkwHCO 45kM9vH1MRAcGUQ8nrPjxFDcrvq2HyG40fu2QCVi8s8NoCKa5AAIBsuTm7IP/hvX 85OrG4xQ2Loda1Hh1ITlU0US/kMNgVr1URWZD8t/fhhEfzmyCh9bvVg+Bajn+vVx D038Dv1ECDvnLH7z5DiNMyHerzpIVj9YbEHpJ06eGW2jtP55oWIasV2p79uL/cvn /OBuzNtle44FattaHYzMQXs8p6krMPxrDbGxKrn/L1c16fR2UGhPNUFhWms8hu0i wmDGz+vIuOr9h4829ifKaFHhxbZRwAhk8zogxrfC4ZE1n8MYSmau4NjQetpuUy4h 2iYD1zFjGA02fsOBzpEMzbMDbmhkAsVrSSSHQBbVG3nn5hY/RCl1NBD9Txzee5gc X+pCtLCnSqxcOsv+KF1idOzpSeywN5pw4woEWY3HQ6dRvhEKPJRGLggH1hhWjty5 KsO+8/yUNif5ctB1CS0ytWrAvXm7untkKEpL888lY3fWjaImfHiHlQI9ovskjwtH cCboM9tn2TTOGl+S2gexgDjtpOvX07IkddOM7uwzzmP+cZIfwpr1cImUnzAP7DGI x88= =9Vv9 -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --EUCRqPb7Nh938OkQapZMzFsAKE8y5UXcN-- From nobody Wed Apr 22 15:09:07 2020 Return-Path: X-Original-To: netmod@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: netmod@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2250B3A0C20 for ; 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X-BeenThere: netmod@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: NETMOD WG list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 22 Apr 2020 22:09:05 -0000 On Wed, Apr 22, 2020 at 11:17:26PM +0200, Robert Varga wrote: > Hello, > > a number of IETF protocols-and-whatnots are operating on unsigned 24bit > (or 3-octet) entities. For example: > > https://tools.ietf.org/html/rfc7471#section-4.1.5 > https://tools.ietf.org/html/rfc7471#section-4.4.5 > SRGB range start/length in https://tools.ietf.org/html/rfc8669 For these use cases, it might be also a good idea to define types that capture the additional semantics. SRGB seems to consist of two 24-bit values - I can't tell whether it makes sense to model this 6-octet value as two 3-octet values in YANG. > I wonder whether it would make sense to provide something like: > > type uint24 { > type uint32; > range 0..16777215; > } > > in ietf-inet-types as a common base type for such definitions. If we add such a definition, it likely should go into ietf-yang-types. /js -- Juergen Schoenwaelder Jacobs University Bremen gGmbH Phone: +49 421 200 3587 Campus Ring 1 | 28759 Bremen | Germany Fax: +49 421 200 3103 From nobody Wed Apr 22 18:39:13 2020 Return-Path: X-Original-To: netmod@ietf.org Delivered-To: netmod@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from ietfa.amsl.com (localhost [IPv6:::1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0BC473A095C; Wed, 22 Apr 2020 18:39:04 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: Benjamin Kaduk via Datatracker To: "The IESG" Cc: draft-ietf-netmod-factory-default@ietf.org, netmod-chairs@ietf.org, netmod@ietf.org, Kent Watsen , kent+ietf@watsen.net X-Test-IDTracker: no X-IETF-IDTracker: 6.127.0 Auto-Submitted: auto-generated Precedence: bulk Reply-To: Benjamin Kaduk Message-ID: <158760594357.26781.2457435467839506098@ietfa.amsl.com> Date: Wed, 22 Apr 2020 18:39:04 -0700 Archived-At: Subject: [netmod] Benjamin Kaduk's No Objection on draft-ietf-netmod-factory-default-14: (with COMMENT) X-BeenThere: netmod@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 List-Id: NETMOD WG list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 23 Apr 2020 01:39:04 -0000 Benjamin Kaduk has entered the following ballot position for draft-ietf-netmod-factory-default-14: No Objection When responding, please keep the subject line intact and reply to all email addresses included in the To and CC lines. (Feel free to cut this introductory paragraph, however.) Please refer to https://www.ietf.org/iesg/statement/discuss-criteria.html for more information about IESG DISCUSS and COMMENT positions. The document, along with other ballot positions, can be found here: https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-netmod-factory-default/ ---------------------------------------------------------------------- COMMENT: ---------------------------------------------------------------------- While many of the secdir reviewer's complaints stem from the YANG security considerations boilerplate, it still seems like it would be worth some form of response to the review. Section 1 This document defines a method to reset a server to its factory default content. The reset operation may be used, e.g., when the existing configuration has major errors so re-starting the configuration process from scratch is the best option. A "factory-reset" RPC is defined. When resetting a device, all previous configuration settings will be lost and replaced by the factory default content. nit: these two paragraphs talk about the same thing, but the next paragraph is a different thing. It may be better to combine these two in to a single paragraph. A "factory-default" read-only datastore is defined, that contains the data to replace the contents of implemented read-write conventional configuration datastores at reset. [...] Can I suggest instead: % A "factory-default" read-only datastore is defined, that reflects what the % conventional read-write datastores would be overwritten with in the case of % a factory-reset operation. Section 2 All security sensitive data (i.e., private keys, passwords, etc.) SHOULD be overwritten with zeros or a pattern before deletion. [...] I might suggest instead: % When this process includes security-sensitive data such as cryptographic % keys or passwords, it is RECOMMENDED to perform the deletion in as % thorough a manner as possible (e.g., overwriting the physical storage % medium with zeros and/or random bits) to reduce the risk of the sensitive % material being recoverable. It's probably worth noting that since this is only dymanically generated files, any cryptographic keys that are part of the factory-installed image will be retained (such as an IDevID certificate). Section 3 Following the guidelines for defining Datastores in the appendix A of [RFC8342], this document introduces a new optional datastore resource named "factory-default" that represents a preconfigured initial configuration that can be used to initialize the configuration of a nit/soapbox: "preconfigured initial configuration" feels like an awkward wording to me; perhaps "pre-set initial configuration" or "fixed initial configuration"? Section 4 description "This read-only datastore contains the factory default configuration for the device used to replace the contents of the read-write conventional configuration datastores during a 'factory-reset' RPC operation."; nit: the grammar here is off; maybe "for the device that will be used"? (Or some adaptation of my proposed text from earlier.) Section 6 If the factory-default configuration is an "open" one, then performing the reset could leave the device (and thus the network!) vulnerable to attack until it is properly configured. The rtgdir reviewer's comments seem related to this. An attacker that could somehow cause the factory-reset to be performed would cause the loss of running state/crypto keys that would potentially require a lot of operator effort to recover (in addition to the more immediate DoS issues). There is some discussion in draft-ietf-anima-bootstrapping-keyinfra about attacks that are possible when a device is restored to its factory default state; it might be worth trying to incorporate some of that discussion in some manner (whether inline or by reference). The "factory-reset" RPC can prevent any further management of the device if the session and client config are included in the factory default contents. I'm not sure this is 100% correct. If the factory default config overwrites this items, then yes, it will prevent further management. But we also say to delete dynamic files from nonvoliatile storage, which at least to me seems like it could include this class of items and cause the same symptoms even if the configuration items in question are not included in the factory default contents. From nobody Wed Apr 22 18:55:14 2020 Return-Path: X-Original-To: netmod@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: netmod@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 41C043A10B1; Wed, 22 Apr 2020 18:53:31 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.9 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.9 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id QlwQJyFnbaE7; Wed, 22 Apr 2020 18:53:28 -0700 (PDT) Received: from huawei.com (lhrrgout.huawei.com [185.176.76.210]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 5476B3A10AB; Wed, 22 Apr 2020 18:53:28 -0700 (PDT) Received: from lhreml721-chm.china.huawei.com (unknown [172.18.7.108]) by Forcepoint Email with ESMTP id E2FE433D85E6E53F0125; Thu, 23 Apr 2020 02:53:25 +0100 (IST) Received: from lhreml721-chm.china.huawei.com (10.201.108.72) by lhreml721-chm.china.huawei.com (10.201.108.72) with Microsoft SMTP Server (version=TLS1_2, cipher=TLS_ECDHE_RSA_WITH_AES_128_GCM_SHA256) id 15.1.1913.5; Thu, 23 Apr 2020 02:53:25 +0100 Received: from DGGEML422-HUB.china.huawei.com (10.1.199.39) by lhreml721-chm.china.huawei.com (10.201.108.72) with Microsoft SMTP Server (version=TLS1_0, cipher=TLS_ECDHE_RSA_WITH_AES_128_CBC_SHA) id 15.1.1913.5 via Frontend Transport; Thu, 23 Apr 2020 02:53:25 +0100 Received: from DGGEML511-MBX.china.huawei.com ([169.254.1.248]) by dggeml422-hub.china.huawei.com ([10.1.199.39]) with mapi id 14.03.0487.000; Thu, 23 Apr 2020 09:53:21 +0800 From: Qin Wu To: =?utf-8?B?w4lyaWMgVnluY2tl?= , The IESG CC: "draft-ietf-netmod-factory-default@ietf.org" , "netmod-chairs@ietf.org" , "netmod@ietf.org" , Kent Watsen Thread-Topic: =?utf-8?B?w4lyaWMgVnluY2tlJ3MgTm8gT2JqZWN0aW9uIG9uIGRyYWZ0LWlldGYtbmV0?= =?utf-8?Q?mod-factory-default-14:_(with_COMMENT)?= Thread-Index: AdYZDvJMTBevZe+PRoqB//3nPCJK5g== Date: Thu, 23 Apr 2020 01:53:21 +0000 Message-ID: Accept-Language: zh-CN, en-US Content-Language: zh-CN X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-originating-ip: [10.138.33.123] Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-CFilter-Loop: Reflected Archived-At: Subject: Re: [netmod] =?utf-8?q?=C3=89ric_Vyncke=27s_No_Objection_on_draft-ie?= =?utf-8?q?tf-netmod-factory-default-14=3A_=28with_COMMENT=29?= X-BeenThere: netmod@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: NETMOD WG list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 23 Apr 2020 01:53:38 -0000 VGhhbmtzIEVyaWMsIHNlZSByZXBseSBpbmxpbmUgYmVsb3cuDQotLS0tLemCruS7tuWOn+S7ti0t 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IE5PVCByZWx5IG9uIGFueSBzZW5zaXRpdmUgZGF0YSAoZS5nLiwgcHJpdmF0ZSBrZXlzKSBiZWlu ZyBmb3JlbnNpY2FsbHkgdW5yZWNvdmVyYWJsZSINCg0KW1Fpbl06IEkgaGF2ZSBubyBwcmVmZXJl bmNlIG9uIHdoZXRoZXIgd2Ugc2hvdWxkIHVzZSBzdHJvbmcgbGFuZ3VhZ2Ugb3Igc29mdCBsYW5n dWFnZSwgYnV0IHRoZSBpZGVhIGhlcmUgaXMgZGVsZXRpbmcgZHluYW1pY2FsbHkgZ2VuZXJhdGVk IGZpbGVzIGlzIG1hbmRhdG9yeSwgb3ZlcndyaXRpbmcgc2VjdXJpdHkgc2Vuc2l0aXZlIGRhdGEg aXMgcmVjb21tZW5kZWQuDQoNCg== From nobody Wed Apr 22 19:10:48 2020 Return-Path: X-Original-To: netmod@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: netmod@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 37DF73A10F0; Wed, 22 Apr 2020 19:10:47 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.9 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.9 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com 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15.1.1913.5 via Frontend Transport; Thu, 23 Apr 2020 03:10:30 +0100 Received: from DGGEML511-MBX.china.huawei.com ([169.254.1.248]) by dggeml423-hub.china.huawei.com ([10.1.199.40]) with mapi id 14.03.0487.000; Thu, 23 Apr 2020 10:10:25 +0800 From: Qin Wu To: Stephen Kent , "secdir@ietf.org" , Benjamin Kaduk CC: "netmod@ietf.org" , "draft-ietf-netmod-factory-default.all@ietf.org" , "last-call@ietf.org" Thread-Topic: Secdir last call review of draft-ietf-netmod-factory-default-14 Thread-Index: AdYZEvwNyq02j8DOS36yuTwtkmNm9Q== Date: Thu, 23 Apr 2020 02:10:25 +0000 Message-ID: Accept-Language: zh-CN, en-US Content-Language: zh-CN X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-originating-ip: [10.138.33.123] Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-CFilter-Loop: Reflected Archived-At: Subject: Re: [netmod] Secdir last call review of draft-ietf-netmod-factory-default-14 X-BeenThere: netmod@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: NETMOD WG list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 23 Apr 2020 02:10:48 -0000 VGhhbmtzIFN0ZXBoZW4gZm9yIHZhbHVhYmxlIHJldmlldy4gU2VlIHJlcGx5IGlubGluZSBiZWxv dy4NCi0tLS0t6YKu5Lu25Y6f5Lu2LS0tLS0NCuWPkeS7tuS6ujogU3RlcGhlbiBLZW50IHZpYSBE YXRhdHJhY2tlciBbbWFpbHRvOm5vcmVwbHlAaWV0Zi5vcmddIA0K5Y+R6YCB5pe26Ze0OiAyMDIw 5bm0M+aciDEw5pelIDM6MTUNCuaUtuS7tuS6ujogc2VjZGlyQGlldGYub3JnDQrmioTpgIE6IG5l dG1vZEBpZXRmLm9yZzsgZHJhZnQtaWV0Zi1uZXRtb2QtZmFjdG9yeS1kZWZhdWx0LmFsbEBpZXRm Lm9yZzsgbGFzdC1jYWxsQGlldGYub3JnDQrkuLvpopg6IFNlY2RpciBsYXN0IGNhbGwgcmV2aWV3 IG9mIGRyYWZ0LWlldGYtbmV0bW9kLWZhY3RvcnktZGVmYXVsdC0xNA0KDQpSZXZpZXdlcjogU3Rl cGhlbiBLZW50DQpSZXZpZXcgcmVzdWx0OiBIYXMgSXNzdWVzDQoNClNFQ0RJUiByZXZpZXcgb2Yg ZHJhZnQtaWV0Zi1uZXRtb2QtZmFjdG9yeS1kZWZhdWx0LTE0DQoNCkkgaGF2ZSByZXZpZXdlZCB0 aGlzIGRvY3VtZW50IGFzIHBhcnQgb2YgdGhlIHNlY3VyaXR5IGRpcmVjdG9yYXRlJ3Mgb25nb2lu ZyBlZmZvcnQgdG8gcmV2aWV3IGFsbCBJRVRGIGRvY3VtZW50cyBiZWluZyBwcm9jZXNzZWQgYnkg 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([169.254.1.248]) by dggeml423-hub.china.huawei.com ([10.1.199.40]) with mapi id 14.03.0487.000; Thu, 23 Apr 2020 12:54:38 +0800 From: Qin Wu To: Benjamin Kaduk , The IESG CC: "draft-ietf-netmod-factory-default@ietf.org" , "netmod-chairs@ietf.org" , "netmod@ietf.org" , Kent Watsen Thread-Topic: Benjamin Kaduk's No Objection on draft-ietf-netmod-factory-default-14: (with COMMENT) Thread-Index: AdYZKzcA7vr7/4asQoywqLAz18+0zw== Date: Thu, 23 Apr 2020 04:54:37 +0000 Message-ID: Accept-Language: zh-CN, en-US Content-Language: zh-CN X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-originating-ip: [10.138.33.123] Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-CFilter-Loop: Reflected Archived-At: Subject: Re: [netmod] Benjamin Kaduk's No Objection on draft-ietf-netmod-factory-default-14: (with COMMENT) X-BeenThere: netmod@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: NETMOD WG list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: 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(2603:10b6:208:190::17) by MN2PR11MB4663.namprd11.prod.outlook.com (2603:10b6:208:26f::14) with Microsoft SMTP Server (version=TLS1_2, cipher=TLS_ECDHE_RSA_WITH_AES_256_GCM_SHA384) id 15.20.2937.13; Thu, 23 Apr 2020 09:25:32 +0000 Received: from MN2PR11MB4366.namprd11.prod.outlook.com ([fe80::3:2164:a8e2:33b3]) by MN2PR11MB4366.namprd11.prod.outlook.com ([fe80::3:2164:a8e2:33b3%5]) with mapi id 15.20.2937.020; Thu, 23 Apr 2020 09:25:32 +0000 From: "Rob Wilton (rwilton)" To: Juergen Schoenwaelder , Robert Varga CC: "netmod@ietf.org" Thread-Topic: [netmod] "uint24" in rfc6991-bis? Thread-Index: AQHWGOuf68Kgi/+Ld0aVI9Vlk15BnKiFs2KAgAC6kUA= Date: Thu, 23 Apr 2020 09:25:31 +0000 Message-ID: References: <20200422220855.jlpgobh2ixloaheq@anna.jacobs.jacobs-university.de> In-Reply-To: <20200422220855.jlpgobh2ixloaheq@anna.jacobs.jacobs-university.de> Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: authentication-results: spf=none (sender IP is ) smtp.mailfrom=rwilton@cisco.com; x-originating-ip: [82.15.79.32] x-ms-publictraffictype: Email x-ms-office365-filtering-correlation-id: b8509440-68f6-4144-8c44-08d7e7684560 x-ms-traffictypediagnostic: MN2PR11MB4663: x-microsoft-antispam-prvs: x-ms-oob-tlc-oobclassifiers: OLM:9508; x-forefront-prvs: 03827AF76E x-forefront-antispam-report: CIP:255.255.255.255; CTRY:; LANG:en; SCL:1; SRV:; IPV:NLI; SFV:NSPM; H:MN2PR11MB4366.namprd11.prod.outlook.com; PTR:; CAT:NONE; SFTY:; SFS:(4636009)(366004)(396003)(39860400002)(376002)(346002)(136003)(478600001)(186003)(66946007)(66446008)(66556008)(966005)(76116006)(66476007)(55016002)(83080400001)(8936002)(2906002)(4326008)(8676002)(9686003)(81156014)(316002)(5660300002)(7696005)(64756008)(86362001)(33656002)(110136005)(6506007)(71200400001)(53546011)(52536014)(26005); DIR:OUT; SFP:1101; received-spf: None (protection.outlook.com: cisco.com does not designate permitted sender hosts) x-ms-exchange-senderadcheck: 1 x-microsoft-antispam: BCL:0; x-microsoft-antispam-message-info: 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 x-ms-exchange-antispam-messagedata: mMLuczjJiBhG9WRvmIqq6cQ5Ljfc9mXmwOvOf4u1PSNqFCSP4ctGGD6i+oymMp4HOZZXSTEUdyX2A58Ns0u8SIprebSYUZZQGMVflDz+kS73zv1i91AF1cYXIwhFi8YuIr5UTMgYA2Xi6lWy57uLNA== x-ms-exchange-transport-forked: True Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable MIME-Version: 1.0 X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-Network-Message-Id: b8509440-68f6-4144-8c44-08d7e7684560 X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-originalarrivaltime: 23 Apr 2020 09:25:31.7867 (UTC) X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-fromentityheader: Hosted X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-id: 5ae1af62-9505-4097-a69a-c1553ef7840e X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-mailboxtype: HOSTED X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-userprincipalname: fdyBGM08M2xpXrMM7En3n+SjAiWZugXPlR5Z4cVUG9JXlYsZJ4KwmwvxGf70vvvaNBfmCZ9W9chOyAb2EZTbSQ== X-MS-Exchange-Transport-CrossTenantHeadersStamped: MN2PR11MB4663 X-OriginatorOrg: cisco.com X-Outbound-SMTP-Client: 173.36.7.14, xch-aln-004.cisco.com X-Outbound-Node: alln-core-12.cisco.com Archived-At: Subject: Re: [netmod] "uint24" in rfc6991-bis? X-BeenThere: netmod@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: NETMOD WG list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 23 Apr 2020 09:25:40 -0000 [As an individual contributor] > -----Original Message----- > From: netmod On Behalf Of Juergen Schoenwaelder > Sent: 22 April 2020 23:09 > To: Robert Varga > Cc: netmod@ietf.org > Subject: Re: [netmod] "uint24" in rfc6991-bis? >=20 > On Wed, Apr 22, 2020 at 11:17:26PM +0200, Robert Varga wrote: > > Hello, > > > > a number of IETF protocols-and-whatnots are operating on unsigned > > 24bit (or 3-octet) entities. For example: > > > > https://tools.ietf.org/html/rfc7471#section-4.1.5 > > https://tools.ietf.org/html/rfc7471#section-4.4.5 > > SRGB range start/length in https://tools.ietf.org/html/rfc8669 >=20 > For these use cases, it might be also a good idea to define types that > capture the additional semantics. SRGB seems to consist of two 24-bit > values - I can't tell whether it makes sense to model this 6-octet value > as two 3-octet values in YANG. >=20 > > I wonder whether it would make sense to provide something like: > > > > type uint24 { > > type uint32; > > range 0..16777215; > > } > > > > in ietf-inet-types as a common base type for such definitions. >=20 > If we add such a definition, it likely should go into ietf-yang-types. [RW]=20 I would find this type somewhat confusing in the sense that it mixing the u= nderlying YANG datatype with the range of the value space, e.g., I don't think of uint8 as type uint8 { type uint32; range 0..255; } because the encoding is allowed to be different. Perhaps having a slightly= different name would help avoid possible confusion with the built in types= ? Regards, Rob >=20 > /js >=20 > -- > Juergen Schoenwaelder Jacobs University Bremen gGmbH > Phone: +49 421 200 3587 Campus Ring 1 | 28759 Bremen | Germany > Fax: +49 421 200 3103 >=20 > _______________________________________________ > netmod mailing list > netmod@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/netmod From nobody Thu Apr 23 02:57:22 2020 Return-Path: X-Original-To: netmod@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: netmod@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id A02953A180E for ; Thu, 23 Apr 2020 02:57:21 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -0.101 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-0.101 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_EF=-0.1, PDS_NAKED_TO_NUMERO=1.999, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=no autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=4668.se header.b=v/jn9oeU; dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=messagingengine.com header.b=TEENGNNl Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id ZXu5gcRUVntK for ; Thu, 23 Apr 2020 02:57:20 -0700 (PDT) Received: from wout4-smtp.messagingengine.com (wout4-smtp.messagingengine.com [64.147.123.20]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher AECDH-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 48F2B3A180D for ; Thu, 23 Apr 2020 02:57:20 -0700 (PDT) Received: from compute2.internal (compute2.nyi.internal [10.202.2.42]) by mailout.west.internal (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5A921736; Thu, 23 Apr 2020 05:57:19 -0400 (EDT) Received: from mailfrontend2 ([10.202.2.163]) by compute2.internal (MEProxy); Thu, 23 Apr 2020 05:57:19 -0400 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=4668.se; h=date :message-id:to:cc:subject:from:in-reply-to:references :mime-version:content-type:content-transfer-encoding; s=fm1; bh= eX2H2dorWHY8S/6mJ95o+KhlVLFD7Jv9vHVxgaJlvO0=; b=v/jn9oeUDZUc4bkH bejfqY2Zz1Ohri+i4BphgAtbmiPs9FOIDAZI2MXbjIqqO7e1tKyG+pObTTSjp6o9 GQBu7l00mOiEX27nL1RxRs3Z3fMe5c8eI2tqibJDFouOITKKakaj9so552EC/Njk +wbKvlg49T3HzMel4Htvzkv9ABxYQCEJkMVlGHmAC0jBoVJuRX7qVOp9ilWvkqvX +tAuuNacLtku6bKW0FhhzNURur2ux1yoNX9INtdvU+4T4VMkwSWGquMz0i/Gmhn9 Hr/8JYSFDi7AxPV0PIcpyM3JN+v22lQPZC2MzAaX7Wfj0mlrkzJlJeIEkwZLWnEk 8MK0ww== DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d= messagingengine.com; h=cc:content-transfer-encoding:content-type :date:from:in-reply-to:message-id:mime-version:references :subject:to:x-me-proxy:x-me-proxy:x-me-sender:x-me-sender :x-sasl-enc; s=fm2; bh=eX2H2dorWHY8S/6mJ95o+KhlVLFD7Jv9vHVxgaJlv O0=; b=TEENGNNloM5uKR+tscxT80f/d0jX2+uE8AimxYxg1SCOO7KYuKrhXmeDT F3f2JN0C+Br0rquKW+w5NW6LZamp5JOBz0j8hHRoAbUZfe3wXltyKgTlEDqihqnk /6I+BgdplkY948Y6Dq2hvfo5oCx1IaU+/Lv8Pg/wVsTonWilNKrTrKptVkEVlojS ShmPPyJVEcYpaYa8EMI8thhy4+7efFXdrQ0irDZ/4orjZFlu9tVCSYedHxS+I8/6 s5DwUYQVKVi5xB1qvP1otH2Gs5n/l79PmKtlPLdbq8T+Ima8AxzziqlFe03I2XxT Pryogle2+BGBRUV6BI9lFSJcAXaPw== X-ME-Sender: X-ME-Proxy-Cause: gggruggvucftvghtrhhoucdtuddrgeduhedrgeelgddvudcutefuodetggdotefrodftvf curfhrohhfihhlvgemucfhrghsthforghilhdpqfgfvfdpuffrtefokffrpgfnqfghnecu uegrihhlohhuthemuceftddtnecunecujfgurhepfffkvffuhfgjfhfogggtgfesthejre dtredtvdenucfhrhhomhepofgrrhhtihhnuceujhpnrhhklhhunhguuceomhgsjhdoihgv thhfseegieeikedrshgvqeenucffohhmrghinhepihgvthhfrdhorhhgpdhjrggtohgssh dquhhnihhvvghrshhithihrdguvgenucfkphepudehkedrudejgedrgedrgeegnecuvehl uhhsthgvrhfuihiivgeptdenucfrrghrrghmpehmrghilhhfrhhomhepmhgsjhdoihgvth hfseegieeikedrshgv X-ME-Proxy: Received: from localhost (unknown [158.174.4.44]) by mail.messagingengine.com (Postfix) with ESMTPA id 8C7A33065D23; Thu, 23 Apr 2020 05:57:17 -0400 (EDT) Date: Thu, 23 Apr 2020 11:57:15 +0200 (CEST) Message-Id: <20200423.115715.467694125357149481.id@4668.se> To: rwilton=40cisco.com@dmarc.ietf.org Cc: j.schoenwaelder@jacobs-university.de, nite@hq.sk, netmod@ietf.org From: Martin =?iso-8859-1?Q?Bj=F6rklund?= In-Reply-To: References: <20200422220855.jlpgobh2ixloaheq@anna.jacobs.jacobs-university.de> X-Mailer: Mew version 6.8 on Emacs 25.2 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: Text/Plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Archived-At: Subject: Re: [netmod] "uint24" in rfc6991-bis? X-BeenThere: netmod@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: NETMOD WG list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 23 Apr 2020 09:57:22 -0000 "Rob Wilton \(rwilton\)" wrote: > [As an individual contributor] > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: netmod On Behalf Of Juergen > > Schoenwaelder > > Sent: 22 April 2020 23:09 > > To: Robert Varga > > Cc: netmod@ietf.org > > Subject: Re: [netmod] "uint24" in rfc6991-bis? > > > > On Wed, Apr 22, 2020 at 11:17:26PM +0200, Robert Varga wrote: > > > Hello, > > > > > > a number of IETF protocols-and-whatnots are operating on unsigned > > > 24bit (or 3-octet) entities. For example: > > > > > > https://tools.ietf.org/html/rfc7471#section-4.1.5 > > > https://tools.ietf.org/html/rfc7471#section-4.4.5 > > > SRGB range start/length in https://tools.ietf.org/html/rfc8669 > > > > For these use cases, it might be also a good idea to define types that > > capture the additional semantics. SRGB seems to consist of two 24-bit > > values - I can't tell whether it makes sense to model this 6-octet > > value > > as two 3-octet values in YANG. > > > > > I wonder whether it would make sense to provide something like: > > > > > > type uint24 { > > > type uint32; > > > range 0..16777215; > > > } > > > > > > in ietf-inet-types as a common base type for such definitions. > > > > If we add such a definition, it likely should go into ietf-yang-types. > [RW] > > I would find this type somewhat confusing in the sense that it mixing > the underlying YANG datatype with the range of the value space, I agree. > e.g., I don't think of uint8 as > type uint8 { > type uint32; > range 0..255; > } > > because the encoding is allowed to be different. Perhaps having a > slightly different name would help avoid possible confusion with the > built in types? Then the question is if it really is so common so that we need a type in ietf-yang-types for this. /martin > > Regards, > Rob > > > > > > /js > > > > -- > > Juergen Schoenwaelder Jacobs University Bremen gGmbH > > Phone: +49 421 200 3587 Campus Ring 1 | 28759 Bremen | Germany > > Fax: +49 421 200 3103 > > > > _______________________________________________ > > netmod mailing list > > netmod@ietf.org > > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/netmod > > _______________________________________________ > netmod mailing list > netmod@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/netmod From nobody Thu Apr 23 09:59:15 2020 Return-Path: <01000171a7fa898b-696030c8-0c3d-4e36-b2f1-49af349e1c0d-000000@amazonses.watsen.net> X-Original-To: netmod@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: netmod@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 446CA3A0CDE for ; Thu, 23 Apr 2020 09:59:14 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.896 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.896 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_NONE=0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=unavailable autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (1024-bit key) header.d=amazonses.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id ESooBx4rW6qq for ; Thu, 23 Apr 2020 09:59:08 -0700 (PDT) Received: from a8-83.smtp-out.amazonses.com (a8-83.smtp-out.amazonses.com [54.240.8.83]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id EB8D33A0CDF for ; Thu, 23 Apr 2020 09:59:07 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; q=dns/txt; c=relaxed/simple; s=224i4yxa5dv7c2xz3womw6peuasteono; d=amazonses.com; t=1587661146; h=From:Message-Id:Content-Type:Mime-Version:Subject:Date:In-Reply-To:Cc:To:References:Feedback-ID; bh=P5sAtFqQ0eJ98gmY1lwQVljJUieO7/VsTEEsZp2mfmg=; b=HjNziFj3D+TfpJytg3mTZW1Hgz0yCra6F/vTaGl7uKs4/tLGZXrbL4XgcZRhbIBz FvQ/7MSWQuMyC+7PGhWBfYj7zcCQxKRqhiWHaH3sqZ24O9+CPtFwaUppo36uS/0VSOe +54XaSh4lx1WWuCtvF0c2KQ2/n8UXWqnhGn/6HzQ= From: Kent Watsen Message-ID: <01000171a7fa898b-696030c8-0c3d-4e36-b2f1-49af349e1c0d-000000@email.amazonses.com> Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="Apple-Mail=_24360AC2-E512-4234-88D7-E9F793CB8AAC" Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 12.4 \(3445.104.11\)) Date: Thu, 23 Apr 2020 16:59:06 +0000 In-Reply-To: Cc: Radek Krejci , Juergen Schoenwaelder , =?utf-8?Q?Martin_Bj=C3=B6rklund?= , "netmod@ietf.org" , "Rob Wilton (rwilton)" To: Andy Bierman References: <20200327161318.ykrx2s36bhmaglxq@anna.jacobs.jacobs-university.de> <20200403.155421.968858617291773287.id@4668.se> <9c3ee87c0e9d14c8921796c4b53d44620b53a942.camel@nic.cz> <20200403165538.2lk4x5j32e3ctl4t@anna.jacobs.jacobs-university.de> <0a546588-6f87-3362-17da-37de8ea08956@cesnet.cz> <20200406074235.o6gkpjsim77xfzv7@anna.jacobs.jacobs-university.de> <010001715f8c4aa2-21fad32a-36d7-441e-bbb7-24e3aef1c229-000000@email.amazonses.com> <5319ca95-1f3a-33e6-aae3-cfd9861d59d7@cesnet.cz> X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.3445.104.11) X-SES-Outgoing: 2020.04.23-54.240.8.83 Feedback-ID: 1.us-east-1.DKmIRZFhhsBhtmFMNikgwZUWVrODEw9qVcPhqJEI2DA=:AmazonSES Archived-At: Subject: Re: [netmod] [Technical Errata Reported] RFC7950 (6031) X-BeenThere: netmod@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: NETMOD WG list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 23 Apr 2020 16:59:14 -0000 --Apple-Mail=_24360AC2-E512-4234-88D7-E9F793CB8AAC Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 The consensus seems to be that: - the errata should be rejected - Rob, do you agree? - YANG-next should fix it later - I created https://github.com/netmod-wg/yang-next/issues/104 - implementations should try to do the right thing now - Radek=E2=80=99s suggestion below LGTM! Tallies: - for reject: Andy, Martin, Juergen, and Kent=20 - for accept: Radek, and Balazs - unclear: Lada, Rob, and Jason Kent // as co-chair > On Apr 14, 2020, at 10:35 AM, Andy Bierman wrote: >=20 > Hi, >=20 > I agree with Juergen that this errata should be rejected and the issue = resolved in yang-next. > No IETF module should use this construct. It is easy to convert to an = equivalent form that is not under dispute. >=20 >=20 > Andy >=20 >=20 > On Tue, Apr 14, 2020 at 6:40 AM Radek Krejci > wrote: > Hi, >=20 > Dne 09. 04. 20 v 17:26 Kent Watsen napsal(a): >>=20 >>=20 >>> On Apr 6, 2020, at 3:42 AM, Juergen Schoenwaelder = > wrote: >>>=20 >>> The definition I found in RFC 8639 is this: >>>=20 >>> leaf stream { >>> type stream-ref { >>> require-instance false; >>> } >>> mandatory true; >>> description >>> "Indicates the event stream to be considered for >>> this subscription."; >>> } >>>=20 >>> This could be changed to: >>>=20 >>> leaf stream { >>> type leafref { >>> path "/sn:streams/sn:stream/sn:name"; >>> require-instance false; >>> } >>> mandatory true; >>> description >>> "Indicates the event stream to be considered for >>> this subscription."; >>> } >>>=20 >>=20 >> I can confirm that `yanglint` validates the module cleanly after this = change. >>=20 >>=20 >>=20 >>> On Apr 6, 2020, at 7:38 AM, Martin Bj=C3=B6rklund > wrote: >>>=20 >>> I think the correct fix is to change the text so that >>> "require-instance" is not classified as a restriction and keep the >>> default. =20 >>=20 >> Agreed. >>=20 >>=20 >>> Also, I think that it would be easiest (for backwards >>> compatibility w/ existing models) to allow "require-inetance" to be >>> changed in derived types. >>>=20 >>> However, this cannot imo be done in an errata. >>=20 >> While I appreciate Radek and Michal=E2=80=99s perspective, I also = think that is would be best for the community for `yanglint` to support = this, as they are published modules doing it. >>=20 >=20 > I don't feel as an expert for IETF processes, so I don't know if this = issue can be solved in errata or not (and I'm not sure there is a = consensus on this in mailing list). For the implementation, I would = appreciate at least a consensus on a solution. So far I saw opinions to = allow it, to disallow and also to make it implementation-specific (which = means in fact to disallow from the authors perspective, since there can = be a tool disallowing it and we are saying that such a tool is ok). So, = there is no clear way for implementors, which means problems for = interoperability - there will be always someone unhappy and so far I = don't know what is the major opinion to go.=20 >=20 > So far, I tend to allow it (accept by libyang), but print warning to = warn authors about possible problems (some tool can refuse such a = module). Is it ok? >=20 > Radek >=20 >=20 >> As an aside, I feel that all modules should be tested against all = available validation tools during the publication process, but to find = issues in the modules and well as possibly improve the tools. >>=20 >> Sadly, I only have `yanglint` and `yangson` available to me. I just = checked for the =E2=80=9Cyang validator=E2=80=9D project, but both = www.yangvalidator.com and = https://www.yangcatalog.org/yangvalidator = seem to be down. >>=20 >>=20 >> Kent // contributor >>=20 >=20 > _______________________________________________ > netmod mailing list > netmod@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/netmod = --Apple-Mail=_24360AC2-E512-4234-88D7-E9F793CB8AAC Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/html; charset=utf-8 The = consensus seems to be that:
  - the errata should be = rejected
        - Rob, do you = agree?
  - YANG-next should fix it = later
        - I = created https://github.com/netmod-wg/yang-next/issues/104
  - implementations should try to do the right thing = now
        - Radek=E2=80=99s = suggestion below LGTM!


Tallies:
   - for reject: Andy, Martin, Juergen, and = Kent 
   - for = accept: Radek, and Balazs
   - unclear: = Lada, Rob, and Jason


Kent // as = co-chair


On Apr 14, 2020, at 10:35 AM, Andy Bierman <andy@yumaworks.com> = wrote:

Hi,

I agree with Juergen that this errata should be rejected and = the issue resolved in yang-next.
No IETF module = should use this construct. It is easy to convert to an equivalent form = that is not under dispute.


Andy


On Tue, Apr = 14, 2020 at 6:40 AM Radek Krejci <rkrejci@cesnet.cz> wrote:
=20 =20 =20
Hi,

Dne 09. 04. 20 v 17:26 Kent Watsen napsal(a):
=20

On Apr 6, 2020, at 3:42 AM, Juergen Schoenwaelder <j.schoenwaelder@jacobs-university.de> wrote:

The definition I = found in RFC 8639 is this:

       leaf stream = {
         type = stream-ref {
          &nb= sp;require-instance false;
         }<= br = style=3D"font-family:Helvetica;font-size:14px;font-style:normal;font-varia= nt-caps:normal;font-weight:normal;letter-spacing:normal;text-align:start;t= ext-indent:0px;text-transform:none;white-space:normal;word-spacing:0px;tex= t-decoration:none" class=3D"">          mandatory= true;
         descripti= on
          &nb= sp;"Indicates the event stream to be considered for
          &nb= sp; this subscription.";
       }

This could be = changed to:

       leaf stream = {
         type = leafref {
    path "/sn:streams/sn:stream/sn:name";
          &nb= sp;require-instance false;
         }<= br = style=3D"font-family:Helvetica;font-size:14px;font-style:normal;font-varia= nt-caps:normal;font-weight:normal;letter-spacing:normal;text-align:start;t= ext-indent:0px;text-transform:none;white-space:normal;word-spacing:0px;tex= t-decoration:none" class=3D"">          mandatory= true;
         descripti= on
          &nb= sp;"Indicates the event stream to be considered for
          &nb= sp; this subscription.";
       }


I can confirm that `yanglint` validates the module cleanly after this change.



On Apr 6, 2020, at 7:38 AM, Martin Bj=C3=B6rklun= d <mbj+ietf@4668.se> wrote:

I think the correct fix is to change the text so that
"require-instance" is not classified as a restriction and keep the
default. =  

Agreed.


Also, I think that it would be easiest (for backwards
compatibility w/ existing models) to allow "require-inetance" to = be
changed = in derived types.

However, = this cannot imo be done in an errata.

While I appreciate Radek and Michal=E2=80=99s = perspective, I also think that is would be best for the community for `yanglint` to support this, as they are published modules doing it.


I don't feel as an expert for IETF processes, so I don't know if this issue can be solved in errata or not (and I'm not sure there is a consensus on this in mailing list). For the implementation, I would appreciate at least a consensus on a solution. So far I saw opinions to allow it, to disallow and also to make it implementation-specific (which means in fact to disallow from the authors perspective, since there can be a tool disallowing it and we are saying that such a tool is ok). So, there is no clear way for implementors, which means problems for interoperability - there will be always someone unhappy and so far I don't know what is the major opinion to go.

So far, I tend to allow it (accept by libyang), but print warning to warn authors about possible problems (some tool can refuse such a module). Is it ok?

Radek


As an aside, I feel that all modules should be tested against all available validation tools during the publication process, but to find issues in the modules and well as possibly improve the tools.

Sadly, I only have `yanglint` and `yangson` available to me.  I just checked for the =E2=80=9Cyang = validator=E2=80=9D project, but both www.yangvalidator.com and https://www.yangcatalog.org/yangvalidator seem to be down.


Kent // contributor


_______________________________________________
netmod mailing list
netmod@ietf.org
https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/netmod
=

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15.20.2937.020; Fri, 24 Apr 2020 16:54:05 +0000 From: "Rob Wilton (rwilton)" To: Qin Wu , Roman Danyliw CC: "netmod-chairs@ietf.org" , Kent Watsen , "draft-ietf-netmod-factory-default@ietf.org" , "netmod@ietf.org" , The IESG Thread-Topic: Roman Danyliw's Discuss on draft-ietf-netmod-factory-default-14: (with DISCUSS and COMMENT) Thread-Index: AdYX31BAcjZyyoisREivDOhxrSDBSwCeXy/Q Date: Fri, 24 Apr 2020 16:54:04 +0000 Message-ID: References: In-Reply-To: Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: authentication-results: spf=none (sender IP is ) smtp.mailfrom=rwilton@cisco.com; x-originating-ip: [82.15.79.32] x-ms-publictraffictype: Email x-ms-office365-filtering-correlation-id: 21e7c65b-47a9-4002-37c0-08d7e8701909 x-ms-traffictypediagnostic: MN2PR11MB4600: x-microsoft-antispam-prvs: x-ms-oob-tlc-oobclassifiers: OLM:10000; x-forefront-prvs: 03838E948C x-forefront-antispam-report: CIP:255.255.255.255; CTRY:; LANG:en; SCL:1; SRV:; IPV:NLI; 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X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-Id: f78e973e-5c0b-4ab8-bbd7-9887c95a8ebd X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-MailboxType: HOSTED X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-UserPrincipalName: tAiVWdY7ijeaFHTfLSyaGwV0DmOgRWtjobs0mYQrjQdmGsryRh8qth6syjUegnfLdS0IVMq9o1Na2y7NGMTmnkSjQ6YY9lEvHi1XBz8YCgg= X-MS-Exchange-Transport-CrossTenantHeadersStamped: AM0P190MB0738 Archived-At: Subject: Re: [netmod] Roman Danyliw's Discuss on draft-ietf-netmod-factory-default-14: (with DISCUSS and COMMENT) X-BeenThere: netmod@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: NETMOD WG list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 24 Apr 2020 18:09:32 -0000 On Fri, Apr 24, 2020 at 04:54:04PM +0000, Rob Wilton (rwilton) wrote: > > 1) Concerns read access to the factory-default datastore which could contain sensitive information. Perhaps read access to that datastore should default to nacm:default-deny-all? If so, then this should probably be documented in section 3, with a sentence in section 6 to explain that is how it is protected. > Why would a factory-default datastore be more sensitive than ? /js -- Juergen Schoenwaelder Jacobs University Bremen gGmbH Phone: +49 421 200 3587 Campus Ring 1 | 28759 Bremen | Germany Fax: +49 421 200 3103 From nobody Fri Apr 24 11:27:22 2020 Return-Path: X-Original-To: netmod@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: netmod@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 87C363A0063 for ; Fri, 24 Apr 2020 11:27:14 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.887 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.887 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, T_SPF_PERMERROR=0.01, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=unavailable autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=yumaworks-com.20150623.gappssmtp.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id Mw7XOFiwCcJy for ; Fri, 24 Apr 2020 11:27:11 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail-yb1-xb2f.google.com (mail-yb1-xb2f.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:4864:20::b2f]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 36A443A00C0 for ; Fri, 24 Apr 2020 11:27:11 -0700 (PDT) Received: by mail-yb1-xb2f.google.com with SMTP id f13so5536034ybk.7 for ; Fri, 24 Apr 2020 11:27:11 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=yumaworks-com.20150623.gappssmtp.com; s=20150623; h=mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date:message-id:subject:to :cc; bh=ArLAPgZiuOc7r65xVf9r6ivKJFXMzIS9JM44Y/xMNrI=; b=FiJ3/G3HYxfS3zF2hNBl+H88UW+YcK5C3UDA/LI5JZ036Jz+qDOX1IOlW8dge6jvLX tJFdUGcS9zeoi9H9aYZT0Zg5kNx0PNfVY9ro6SG8+/OoU3AO9XOIfteGCzQ/ETejprFL g5quJ/b+pxLArPZuRDFLSwlfW+lrwKZeGI4cBiHSLbHMMLg29f2GSzwfiq6nQbOVn1wm 0d9oiRa+vKd4Oqde4VjXFt2N2KlElclgvJwwFss4JYNa+kENjQPHFiG6uLzcFZmtkVBR lxwCfQl5T4DLOJ3Dzb+iEq0+xvQMhFlWQ4PT+5ZKk/a/qhxREEeJDm8W0W5PDn/pJ3EJ PQ/A== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date :message-id:subject:to:cc; bh=ArLAPgZiuOc7r65xVf9r6ivKJFXMzIS9JM44Y/xMNrI=; b=JWKfSdoSy+D2SPoUepmpx+cqhFRESDlYYbN/AFvKi6bPcxARJQKy5dgc6oEWugCz3v et5N1tB+SN8jaR/qP/nqas25KqsTPjhZMRJ3pcE6js1DJZGVpepaOa0iSFc4s0cFdMYE OXlyMTCDgWvW6TxgIey93bmq3P4Qf8hp1BtSzvBzXKI5pytfwHTiFljwV/5Zq+POphfF 12o1Z9e2M5lccZJggzqnHhszYvCg/SFcV2SFIxkTUGJqLURh4OnrZQVAkrsO4iYU4TzM FXq8emOQqc2EP9Gt32w01hdM8mwnZI/kS7EEr9SNPkJ8pYfvDrO/Snqqswi8MmWGK4aA fV5Q== X-Gm-Message-State: AGi0PuZ59goY/MKBWHe0PPMhln+J/gwosAuAM5tx8Nd1QipTpxI/Nq6s 5fFaG35XSh53fXZDzabo9AXPbwLupaniPHhXDcyOPg== X-Google-Smtp-Source: APiQypK22OFZJp9b1cSCnxPwa7jviAm1CovxBkKlOHMOL/HSvtRmoQ7td8oyul4Se3C6bBVlBkZMDqYaJJ94XDcZzvc= X-Received: by 2002:a25:158a:: with SMTP id 132mr15685416ybv.145.1587752830066; Fri, 24 Apr 2020 11:27:10 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 References: In-Reply-To: From: Andy Bierman Date: Fri, 24 Apr 2020 11:26:59 -0700 Message-ID: To: "Rob Wilton (rwilton)" Cc: Qin Wu , Roman Danyliw , "netmod-chairs@ietf.org" , "draft-ietf-netmod-factory-default@ietf.org" , "netmod@ietf.org" , The IESG Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="0000000000006d7b6b05a40d833d" Archived-At: Subject: Re: [netmod] Roman Danyliw's Discuss on draft-ietf-netmod-factory-default-14: (with DISCUSS and COMMENT) X-BeenThere: netmod@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: NETMOD WG list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 24 Apr 2020 18:27:15 -0000 --0000000000006d7b6b05a40d833d Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable On Fri, Apr 24, 2020 at 9:54 AM Rob Wilton (rwilton) wrote: > Hi Qin, > > This document was discussed today. I think that Roman plans to follow up > regarding the security considerations discuss. > > From the discussion today, and reading the Discuss, my understanding is > that Roman has two concerns that are more about the specific text than th= e > use of the template: > > 1) Concerns read access to the factory-default datastore which could > contain sensitive information. Perhaps read access to that datastore > should default to nacm:default-deny-all? If so, then this should probabl= y > be documented in section 3, with a sentence in section 6 to explain that = is > how it is protected. > > The security risk here depends on the server implementation. In the simplest use cases the factory config may be empty (i.e., just YANG defaults). This might even occur for complex NMDA implementations because contains all the implementation details and factory could be empty. I am just asking for a little text in the SC section that says the factory-default datastore could contain sensitive configuration data nodes, and the risk depends on the specific YANG data nodes present in the server. > 2) The second point is asking to expand this paragraph: > > The operational disruption caused by setting the config to factory > default contents varies greatly depending on the implementation and > current config. > > Such that the description also covers "Please note that a default > configuration could be insecure or not have security controls enabled > whereby exposing the network to compromise." > > I see that you are already addressing the other comments that have been > raised. > > Our server supports a "fallback to factory-default" boot mode. If the server boots with a bad configuration it can retry with the factory default config. Does there need to be any mention that the server MAY invoke the operation on its own? Was there any discussion of a "factory-reset" notification during development? Seems like factory-reset of a device is an interesting management event. Regards, > Rob > > Andy > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: iesg On Behalf Of Qin Wu > > Sent: 21 April 2020 14:20 > > To: Roman Danyliw ; The IESG > > Cc: netmod-chairs@ietf.org; Kent Watsen ; draft- > > ietf-netmod-factory-default@ietf.org; netmod@ietf.org > > Subject: RE: Roman Danyliw's Discuss on > draft-ietf-netmod-factory-default- > > 14: (with DISCUSS and COMMENT) > > > > Hi, Roman: > > A few clarification inline below. > > -----=E9=82=AE=E4=BB=B6=E5=8E=9F=E4=BB=B6----- > > =E5=8F=91=E4=BB=B6=E4=BA=BA: Roman Danyliw via Datatracker [mailto:nore= ply@ietf.org] > > =E5=8F=91=E9=80=81=E6=97=B6=E9=97=B4: 2020=E5=B9=B44=E6=9C=8821=E6=97= =A5 20:52 > > =E6=94=B6=E4=BB=B6=E4=BA=BA: The IESG > > =E6=8A=84=E9=80=81: draft-ietf-netmod-factory-default@ietf.org; netmod-= chairs@ietf.org; > > netmod@ietf.org; Kent Watsen ; > kent+ietf@watsen.net > > =E4=B8=BB=E9=A2=98: Roman Danyliw's Discuss on draft-ietf-netmod-factor= y-default-14: > > (with DISCUSS and COMMENT) > > > > Roman Danyliw has entered the following ballot position for > > draft-ietf-netmod-factory-default-14: Discuss > > > > When responding, please keep the subject line intact and reply to all > > email addresses included in the To and CC lines. (Feel free to cut this > > introductory paragraph, however.) > > > > > > Please refer to > https://www.ietf.org/iesg/statement/discuss-criteria.html > > for more information about IESG DISCUSS and COMMENT positions. > > > > > > The document, along with other ballot positions, can be found here: > > https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-netmod-factory-default/ > > > > > > > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > > DISCUSS: > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > > > > Please use YANG security considerations template from > > https://trac.ietf.org/trac/ops/wiki/yang-security-guidelines. > > Specifically (as a DISCUSS item): > > > > ** (Per the template questions =E2=80=9Cfor all YANG modules you must e= valuate > > whether any readable data=E2=80=9D) Would factory-default contain any s= ensitive > > information in certain network environments where the ACLs should be mo= re > > restrictive that world readable for everyone? > > [Qin]: It does follows yang-security-guidelines but there is no readabl= e > > data node defined within rpc, that's why we don't use third paragraph > > boilerplate and fourth paragraph boilerplate of yang-security-guideline= s. > > YANG-security-guidelines are more applicable to YANG data model with mo= re > > readable/writable data nodes. > > In addition, as clarified in the second paragraph, section 6 of this > > draft, NACM can be used to restrict access for particular NETCONF or > > RESTCONF users to a preconfigured subset of all available NETCONF or > > RESTCONF protocol operations (i.e., factory-reset rpc) > > > > Per =E2=80=9CThe operational disruption caused by setting the config to= factory > > default contents varies greatly depending on the implementation and > > current config=E2=80=9D, it seems like it could be worse than just an o= perational > > disruption. Please note that a default configuration could be insecure > or > > not have security controls enabled whereby exposing the network to > > compromise. > > > > [Qin]: As described in the second paragraph of section 6 it by default > > restrict access for everyone by using the "default-deny-all" access > > control defined [RFC8341], what else does it need to address this > security > > concern? > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > > COMMENT: > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > > > > Please use YANG security considerations template from > > https://trac.ietf.org/trac/ops/wiki/yang-security-guidelines. > > Specifically (as a COMMENT item): > > > > ** Add =E2=80=9CThe Network Configuration Access Control Model (NACM) [= RFC8341] > > provides the means to =E2=80=A6=E2=80=9D > > > > [Qin]: We did follow this template, I am wondering how it is different > > from the second paragraph of section 6? I see they are equivalent but > with > > more fine granularity security measures, if my understanding is correct= . > > _______________________________________________ > netmod mailing list > netmod@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/netmod > --0000000000006d7b6b05a40d833d Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable


=
On Fri, Apr 24, 2020 at 9:54 AM Rob W= ilton (rwilton) <rwilton=3D40cisco.com@dmarc.ietf.org> wrote:
Hi Qin,

This document was discussed today.=C2=A0 I think that Roman plans to follow= up regarding the security considerations discuss.

>From the discussion today, and reading the Discuss, my understanding is tha= t Roman has two concerns that are more about the specific text than the use= of the template:

1) Concerns read access to the factory-default datastore which could contai= n sensitive information.=C2=A0 Perhaps read access to that datastore should= default to nacm:default-deny-all?=C2=A0 If so, then this should probably b= e documented in section 3, with a sentence in section 6 to explain that is = how it is protected.


The security risk here depends on the = server implementation.
In the simplest use cases the factory conf= ig may be empty (i.e., just YANG defaults).
This might even occur= for complex NMDA implementations because <intended>
contai= ns all the implementation details and factory <running> could be empt= y.

I am just asking for a little text in the SC se= ction that says the factory-default datastore
could contain sensi= tive configuration data nodes, and the risk depends on the
specif= ic YANG data nodes present in the server.=C2=A0

=C2=A0
2) The second point is asking to expand this paragraph:

=C2=A0 =C2=A0The operational disruption caused by setting the config to fac= tory
=C2=A0 =C2=A0default contents varies greatly depending on the implementatio= n and
=C2=A0 =C2=A0current config.

Such that the description also covers "Please note that a default conf= iguration could be insecure or not have security controls enabled whereby e= xposing the network to compromise."

I see that you are already addressing the other comments that have been rai= sed.



Our server supports a &= quot;fallback to factory-default" boot mode.
If the server b= oots with a bad configuration it can retry with the factory default config.=

Does there need to be any mention that the server= MAY invoke the <factory-reset> operation on its own?

<= /div>
Was there any discussion of a "factory-reset" notificat= ion during development?
Seems like factory-reset of a device is a= n interesting management event.


Regards,
Rob



Andy
=C2=A0

> -----Original Message-----
> From: iesg <iesg-bounces@ietf.org> On Behalf Of Qin Wu
> Sent: 21 April 2020 14:20
> To: Roman Danyliw <rdd@cert.org>; The IESG <iesg@ietf.org>
> Cc: netmod= -chairs@ietf.org; Kent Watsen <kent+ietf@watsen.net>; draft-
> ietf-netmod-factory-default@ietf.org; netmod@ietf.org
> Subject: RE: Roman Danyliw's Discuss on draft-ietf-netmod-factory-= default-
> 14: (with DISCUSS and COMMENT)
>
> Hi, Roman:
> A few clarification inline below.
> -----=E9=82=AE=E4=BB=B6=E5=8E=9F=E4=BB=B6-----
> =E5=8F=91=E4=BB=B6=E4=BA=BA: Roman Danyliw via Datatracker [mailto:noreply@ietf.org] > =E5=8F=91=E9=80=81=E6=97=B6=E9=97=B4: 2020=E5=B9=B44=E6=9C=8821=E6=97= =A5 20:52
> =E6=94=B6=E4=BB=B6=E4=BA=BA: The IESG <iesg@ietf.org>
> =E6=8A=84=E9=80=81: draft-ietf-netmod-factory-default@ietf.org; netmod-chair= s@ietf.org;
> netmod@ietf.org; Kent Watsen <kent+ietf@watsen.net>; kent+ietf@watsen.net
> =E4=B8=BB=E9=A2=98: Roman Danyliw's Discuss on draft-ietf-netmod-f= actory-default-14:
> (with DISCUSS and COMMENT)
>
> Roman Danyliw has entered the following ballot position for
> draft-ietf-netmod-factory-default-14: Discuss
>
> When responding, please keep the subject line intact and reply to all<= br> > email addresses included in the To and CC lines. (Feel free to cut thi= s
> introductory paragraph, however.)
>
>
> Please refer to https://www.ietf.org/i= esg/statement/discuss-criteria.html
> for more information about IESG DISCUSS and COMMENT positions.
>
>
> The document, along with other ballot positions, can be found here: > https://datatracker.ietf.org= /doc/draft-ietf-netmod-factory-default/
>
>
>
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------=
> DISCUSS:
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------=
>
> Please use YANG security considerations template from
> https://trac.ietf.org/trac/ops/wiki= /yang-security-guidelines.
> Specifically (as a DISCUSS item):
>
> ** (Per the template questions =E2=80=9Cfor all YANG modules you must = evaluate
> whether any readable data=E2=80=9D) Would factory-default contain any = sensitive
> information in certain network environments where the ACLs should be m= ore
> restrictive that world readable for everyone?
> [Qin]: It does follows yang-security-guidelines but there is no readab= le
> data node defined within rpc, that's why we don't use third pa= ragraph
> boilerplate and fourth paragraph boilerplate of yang-security-guidelin= es.
> YANG-security-guidelines are more applicable to YANG data model with m= ore
> readable/writable data nodes.
> In addition, as clarified in the second paragraph, section 6 of this > draft, NACM can be used to restrict access for particular NETCONF or > RESTCONF users to a preconfigured subset of all available NETCONF or > RESTCONF protocol operations (i.e., factory-reset rpc)
>
> Per =E2=80=9CThe operational disruption caused by setting the config t= o factory
> default contents varies greatly depending on the implementation and > current config=E2=80=9D, it seems like it could be worse than just an = operational
> disruption.=C2=A0 Please note that a default configuration could be in= secure or
> not have security controls enabled whereby exposing the network to
> compromise.
>
> [Qin]: As described in the second paragraph of section 6 it by default=
> restrict access for everyone by using the "default-deny-all"= access
> control defined [RFC8341], what else does it need to address this secu= rity
> concern?
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------=
> COMMENT:
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------=
>
> Please use YANG security considerations template from
> https://trac.ietf.org/trac/ops/wiki= /yang-security-guidelines.
> Specifically (as a COMMENT item):
>
> ** Add =E2=80=9CThe Network Configuration Access Control Model (NACM) = [RFC8341]
> provides the means to =E2=80=A6=E2=80=9D
>
> [Qin]: We did follow this template, I am wondering how it is different=
> from the second paragraph of section 6? I see they are equivalent but = with
> more fine granularity security measures, if my understanding is correc= t.

_______________________________________________
netmod mailing list
netmod@ietf.org https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/netmod
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15.20.2937.020; Fri, 24 Apr 2020 19:33:41 +0000 From: "Rob Wilton (rwilton)" To: Kent Watsen , "netmod@ietf.org" Thread-Topic: [netmod] [Technical Errata Reported] RFC7950 (6031) Thread-Index: AQHWBCEZ+1dLitN/gE+4JTO6Fuc0uqhcjXeAgAAFCACAAAp/AIAKthqggAAbPjCAAAgogIAAACPQgAAQA4CAABcY0IAAC2gAgAQORwCAAA4ygIAFOHsAgAe+IACAAA9dgIAOTScAgAALFlA= Date: Fri, 24 Apr 2020 19:33:41 +0000 Message-ID: References: <20200327161318.ykrx2s36bhmaglxq@anna.jacobs.jacobs-university.de> <20200403.155421.968858617291773287.id@4668.se> <9c3ee87c0e9d14c8921796c4b53d44620b53a942.camel@nic.cz> <20200403165538.2lk4x5j32e3ctl4t@anna.jacobs.jacobs-university.de> <0a546588-6f87-3362-17da-37de8ea08956@cesnet.cz> <20200406074235.o6gkpjsim77xfzv7@anna.jacobs.jacobs-university.de> <010001715f8c4aa2-21fad32a-36d7-441e-bbb7-24e3aef1c229-000000@email.amazonses.com> <5319ca95-1f3a-33e6-aae3-cfd9861d59d7@cesnet.cz> <01000171a7fa898b-696030c8-0c3d-4e36-b2f1-49af349e1c0d-000000@email.amazonses.com> In-Reply-To: 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required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 0_KqVzYb1q6m; Fri, 24 Apr 2020 12:37:22 -0700 (PDT) Received: from outgoing.mit.edu (outgoing-auth-1.mit.edu [18.9.28.11]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 03FC33A09AE; Fri, 24 Apr 2020 12:37:10 -0700 (PDT) Received: from kduck.mit.edu ([24.16.140.251]) (authenticated bits=56) (User authenticated as kaduk@ATHENA.MIT.EDU) by outgoing.mit.edu (8.14.7/8.12.4) with ESMTP id 03OJavhx027861 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 bits=256 verify=NOT); Fri, 24 Apr 2020 15:37:00 -0400 Date: Fri, 24 Apr 2020 12:36:57 -0700 From: Benjamin Kaduk To: Qin Wu Cc: The IESG , "draft-ietf-netmod-factory-default@ietf.org" , "netmod-chairs@ietf.org" , "netmod@ietf.org" , Kent Watsen Message-ID: <20200424193657.GW27494@kduck.mit.edu> References: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit In-Reply-To: User-Agent: Mutt/1.12.1 (2019-06-15) Archived-At: Subject: Re: [netmod] Benjamin Kaduk's No Objection on draft-ietf-netmod-factory-default-14: (with COMMENT) X-BeenThere: netmod@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: NETMOD WG list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 24 Apr 2020 19:37:28 -0000 On Thu, Apr 23, 2020 at 04:54:37AM +0000, Qin Wu wrote: > Hi, Ben: > Thanks for your valuable comments, see reply inline below. > -----邮件原件----- > å‘件人: Benjamin Kaduk via Datatracker [mailto:noreply@ietf.org] > å‘é€æ—¶é—´: 2020å¹´4月23æ—¥ 9:39 > 收件人: The IESG > 抄é€: draft-ietf-netmod-factory-default@ietf.org; netmod-chairs@ietf.org; netmod@ietf.org; Kent Watsen ; kent+ietf@watsen.net > 主题: Benjamin Kaduk's No Objection on draft-ietf-netmod-factory-default-14: (with COMMENT) > > Benjamin Kaduk has entered the following ballot position for > draft-ietf-netmod-factory-default-14: No Objection > > When responding, please keep the subject line intact and reply to all email addresses included in the To and CC lines. (Feel free to cut this introductory paragraph, however.) > > > Please refer to https://www.ietf.org/iesg/statement/discuss-criteria.html > for more information about IESG DISCUSS and COMMENT positions. > > > The document, along with other ballot positions, can be found here: > https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-netmod-factory-default/ > > > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > COMMENT: > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > > While many of the secdir reviewer's complaints stem from the YANG security considerations boilerplate, it still seems like it would be worth some form of response to the review. > > [Qin]: You are correct, we authors also bring up the discussion on sec-review comment on YANG security consideration boilerplate to netmod list. I have sent my response to the sec-review, > Thanks for kindly reminder. > > Section 1 > > This document defines a method to reset a server to its factory > default content. The reset operation may be used, e.g., when the > existing configuration has major errors so re-starting the > configuration process from scratch is the best option. > > A "factory-reset" RPC is defined. When resetting a device, all > previous configuration settings will be lost and replaced by the > factory default content. > > nit: these two paragraphs talk about the same thing, but the next paragraph is a different thing. It may be better to combine these two in to a single paragraph. > [Qin]:The format of this section is to first introduce what method we proposed? And then introduce what this method look like, or two key components for this method, i.e., one new factory-reset RPC and one new factory datastore. If the first pargaraph is trying to introduce everything, then it should mention both the RPC and the datastore. Right now, I only see it talking about the RPC (well, the "reset operation"), and thus it does not seem like a general introduction as opposed to an introduction specific to the RPC. > I prefer to keep as it is. Maybe we could tweak the first paragraph a little bit as follows: > " > This document defines a method to reset a server to its factory > default content. This method may be used, e.g., when the > existing configuration has major errors so re-starting the > configuration process from scratch is the best option. > " > A "factory-default" read-only datastore is defined, that contains the > data to replace the contents of implemented read-write conventional > configuration datastores at reset. [...] > > Can I suggest instead: > > % A "factory-default" read-only datastore is defined, that reflects what the % conventional read-write datastores would be overwritten with in the case of % a factory-reset operation. > [Qin]: Looks equivalent, but I think the original one is more clear. To me the phrase "the data to replace the contents of [...] at reset" is awkward, but your opinion as author trumps mine, here. > Section 2 > > All security > sensitive data (i.e., private keys, passwords, etc.) SHOULD be > overwritten with zeros or a pattern before deletion. [...] > > I might suggest instead: > > % When this process includes security-sensitive data such as cryptographic keys or passwords, it is RECOMMENDED to perform the deletion in a manner as thorough as possible (e.g., overwriting the physical storage medium with zeros and/or random bits) to reduce the risk of the sensitive material being recoverable. > > [Qin]: Sounds reasonable to me, thanks. > It's probably worth noting that since this is only dymanically generated files, any cryptographic keys that are part of the factory-installed image will be retained (such as an IDevID certificate). > [Qin]:If this is conclusion of the draft-ietf-anima-bootstrapping-keyinfra discussion, yes, will consider it. > Section 3 > > Following the guidelines for defining Datastores in the appendix A of > [RFC8342], this document introduces a new optional datastore resource > named "factory-default" that represents a preconfigured initial > configuration that can be used to initialize the configuration of a > > nit/soapbox: "preconfigured initial configuration" feels like an awkward wording to me; perhaps "pre-set initial configuration" or "fixed initial configuration"? > > [Qin]: I see they are equivalent, but I am happy to take your proposal. > > Section 4 > > description > "This read-only datastore contains the factory default > configuration for the device used to replace the contents > of the read-write conventional configuration datastores > during a 'factory-reset' RPC operation."; > > nit: the grammar here is off; maybe "for the device that will be used"? > (Or some adaptation of my proposed text from earlier.) > [Qin]: Sounds good to me. > > Section 6 > > If the factory-default configuration is an "open" one, then performing the reset could leave the device (and thus the network!) vulnerable to attack until it is properly configured. The rtgdir reviewer's comments seem related to this. > > An attacker that could somehow cause the factory-reset to be performed would cause the loss of running state/crypto keys that would potentially require a lot of operator effort to recover (in addition to the more immediate DoS issues). > > There is some discussion in draft-ietf-anima-bootstrapping-keyinfra about attacks that are possible when a device is restored to its factory default state; it might be worth trying to incorporate some of that discussion in some manner (whether inline or by reference). > [Qin]: Okay and will consider it. Thanks! > The "factory-reset" RPC can prevent any further management of the > device if the session and client config are included in the factory > default contents. > > I'm not sure this is 100% correct. If the factory default config overwrites this items, then yes, it will prevent further management. But we also say to delete dynamic files from nonvoliatile storage, which at least to me seems like it could include this class of items and cause the same symptoms even if the configuration items in question are not included in the factory default contents. > [Qin] It seems your comment is related to Eric's. Overwriting happen before deletion, Overwriting can be used to prevent such symptom. I don't think it's related to Éric's comment, so I assume my meaning was not clear. I agree that if if session and client config are included in the factory default contents, this means the "factory-reset" RPC can prevent further management of the device. I *also* think that there are more cases where the "factory-reset" RPC can prevent further management of the device (and that we should mention mention the possibility of that, since the current text is easy to read as saying that the listed case is the only such case). In particular, if the session and client config are *not* in the factory default contents, but are instead treated as dynamic files on the nonvoliatile storage, the RPC will overwrite such config and thus prevent further management of the device. -Ben From nobody Fri Apr 24 12:39:15 2020 Return-Path: X-Original-To: netmod@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: netmod@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id CE5793A091E for ; Fri, 24 Apr 2020 12:39:13 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.72 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.72 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIMWL_WL_HIGH=-0.001, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_H2=-0.82, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (1024-bit key) header.d=nokia.onmicrosoft.com Received: from 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h=From:Message-Id:Content-Type:Mime-Version:Subject:Date:In-Reply-To:Cc:To:References:Feedback-ID; bh=0Zr809z07WAgcha2qyiTdSL8jrHYo9Jhv17v98RiT24=; b=ZzFfYKugvOax5uS5J1B/5JClWVkoBNqpyMBaSKMjoKOE5ITwWYAV749yblzuRCpd E7LwZzGMnjkU5oiiTasMvKLwdXbM/1Yxk7xszSbwqBg+UQaCB2Oc/+8acnUVNP7hIIt /Y8b8Dn2EGTQBB7miylD9a5Mp+DUjzgstDSQN4TI= From: Kent Watsen Message-ID: <01000171ae05933d-470865cb-d199-4a74-bc05-eece8273bc23-000000@email.amazonses.com> Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="Apple-Mail=_E49423B5-31BE-45FE-9D3B-CABE1E4DCB41" Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 12.4 \(3445.104.11\)) Date: Fri, 24 Apr 2020 21:08:53 +0000 In-Reply-To: Cc: "netmod@ietf.org" To: "Rob Wilton (rwilton)" References: <20200327161318.ykrx2s36bhmaglxq@anna.jacobs.jacobs-university.de> <20200403.155421.968858617291773287.id@4668.se> <9c3ee87c0e9d14c8921796c4b53d44620b53a942.camel@nic.cz> <20200403165538.2lk4x5j32e3ctl4t@anna.jacobs.jacobs-university.de> <0a546588-6f87-3362-17da-37de8ea08956@cesnet.cz> <20200406074235.o6gkpjsim77xfzv7@anna.jacobs.jacobs-university.de> <010001715f8c4aa2-21fad32a-36d7-441e-bbb7-24e3aef1c229-000000@email.amazonses.com> <5319ca95-1f3a-33e6-aae3-cfd9861d59d7@cesnet.cz> <01000171a7fa898b-696030c8-0c3d-4e36-b2f1-49af349e1c0d-000000@email.amazonses.com> X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.3445.104.11) X-SES-Outgoing: 2020.04.24-54.240.8.88 Feedback-ID: 1.us-east-1.DKmIRZFhhsBhtmFMNikgwZUWVrODEw9qVcPhqJEI2DA=:AmazonSES Archived-At: Subject: Re: [netmod] [Technical Errata Reported] RFC7950 (6031) X-BeenThere: netmod@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: NETMOD WG list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 24 Apr 2020 21:08:58 -0000 --Apple-Mail=_E49423B5-31BE-45FE-9D3B-CABE1E4DCB41 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Yes, better, thanks! K. > On Apr 24, 2020, at 3:33 PM, Rob Wilton (rwilton) = wrote: >=20 > Hi Kent, > =20 > Thanks for creating the issue. > =20 > I think that errata falls under section 7 of = https://www.ietf.org/about/groups/iesg/statements/processing-rfc-errata/ = = , and could be classified as =E2=80=9CHold for Document Update=E2=80=9D. = I.e. =E2=80=9CChanges that modify the working of a protocol to = something that might be different from the intended consensus when the = document was approved should be either Hold for Document Update or = Rejected. Deciding between these two depends on judgment. Changes that = are clearly modifications to the intended consensus, or involve large = textual changes, should be Rejected. In unclear situations, small = changes can be Hold for Document Update.=E2=80=9D > =20 > I think that the consensus of the long term fix (e.g. in YANG 1.2) is = that =E2=80=9Crequire-instance=E2=80=9D should be allowed under typedefs = that refined types that allow it. > =20 > Pragmatically, I think that we can mark this errata is a =E2=80=9CHold = for Document Update=E2=80=9D, with the accompanying errata notes = (derived from Radek=E2=80=99s comments) changed to: > =20 > =E2=80=9CThe document does not specify whether the = =E2=80=9Crequire-instance=E2=80=9D keyword is allowed in typedef = refinements derived from the =E2=80=9Cleafref=E2=80=9D or = =E2=80=9Cinstance-identifier=E2=80=9D base types, but it is anticipated = that a future revision of YANG would allow this. It is suggested that = modules using YANG language versions 1 [RFC 6020] and 1.1 [RFC 7950] = avoid using this construct, YANG module validation tools flag a warning = if this construct is used, but implementations allow this if = possible.=E2=80=9D > =20 > Does anyone object to this course of action (or wishes to refine my = errata notes)? > =20 > Regards, > Rob > =20 > =20 > From: Kent Watsen =20 > Sent: 23 April 2020 17:59 > To: Andy Bierman > Cc: Radek Krejci ; Juergen Schoenwaelder = ; Martin Bj=C3=B6rklund = ; netmod@ietf.org; Rob Wilton (rwilton) = > Subject: Re: [netmod] [Technical Errata Reported] RFC7950 (6031) > =20 > The consensus seems to be that: > - the errata should be rejected > - Rob, do you agree? > - YANG-next should fix it later > - I created https://github.com/netmod-wg/yang-next/issues/104 = > - implementations should try to do the right thing now > - Radek=E2=80=99s suggestion below LGTM! > =20 > =20 > Tallies: > - for reject: Andy, Martin, Juergen, and Kent=20 > - for accept: Radek, and Balazs > - unclear: Lada, Rob, and Jason > =20 > =20 > Kent // as co-chair > =20 > =20 >=20 > On Apr 14, 2020, at 10:35 AM, Andy Bierman > wrote: > =20 > Hi, > =20 > I agree with Juergen that this errata should be rejected and the issue = resolved in yang-next. > No IETF module should use this construct. It is easy to convert to an = equivalent form that is not under dispute. > =20 > =20 > Andy > =20 > =20 > On Tue, Apr 14, 2020 at 6:40 AM Radek Krejci > wrote: > Hi, >=20 > Dne 09. 04. 20 v 17:26 Kent Watsen napsal(a): > =20 > =20 >=20 > On Apr 6, 2020, at 3:42 AM, Juergen Schoenwaelder = > wrote: > =20 > The definition I found in RFC 8639 is this: >=20 > leaf stream { > type stream-ref { > require-instance false; > } > mandatory true; > description > "Indicates the event stream to be considered for > this subscription."; > } >=20 > This could be changed to: >=20 > leaf stream { > type leafref { > path "/sn:streams/sn:stream/sn:name"; > require-instance false; > } > mandatory true; > description > "Indicates the event stream to be considered for > this subscription."; > } >=20 > =20 > I can confirm that `yanglint` validates the module cleanly after this = change. > =20 > =20 > =20 > On Apr 6, 2020, at 7:38 AM, Martin Bj=C3=B6rklund > wrote: > =20 > I think the correct fix is to change the text so that > "require-instance" is not classified as a restriction and keep the > default. =20 > =20 > Agreed. > =20 > =20 >=20 > Also, I think that it would be easiest (for backwards > compatibility w/ existing models) to allow "require-inetance" to be > changed in derived types. >=20 > However, this cannot imo be done in an errata. > =20 > While I appreciate Radek and Michal=E2=80=99s perspective, I also = think that is would be best for the community for `yanglint` to support = this, as they are published modules doing it. > =20 >=20 > I don't feel as an expert for IETF processes, so I don't know if this = issue can be solved in errata or not (and I'm not sure there is a = consensus on this in mailing list). For the implementation, I would = appreciate at least a consensus on a solution. So far I saw opinions to = allow it, to disallow and also to make it implementation-specific (which = means in fact to disallow from the authors perspective, since there can = be a tool disallowing it and we are saying that such a tool is ok). So, = there is no clear way for implementors, which means problems for = interoperability - there will be always someone unhappy and so far I = don't know what is the major opinion to go.=20 >=20 > So far, I tend to allow it (accept by libyang), but print warning to = warn authors about possible problems (some tool can refuse such a = module). Is it ok? >=20 > Radek >=20 >=20 >=20 > As an aside, I feel that all modules should be tested against all = available validation tools during the publication process, but to find = issues in the modules and well as possibly improve the tools. > =20 > Sadly, I only have `yanglint` and `yangson` available to me. I just = checked for the =E2=80=9Cyang validator=E2=80=9D project, but both = www.yangvalidator.com and = https://www.yangcatalog.org/yangvalidator = seem to be down. > =20 > =20 > Kent // contributor > =20 > =20 > _______________________________________________ > netmod mailing list > netmod@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/netmod = > =20 --Apple-Mail=_E49423B5-31BE-45FE-9D3B-CABE1E4DCB41 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/html; charset=utf-8 Yes, = better, thanks!

K.


On Apr = 24, 2020, at 3:33 PM, Rob Wilton (rwilton) <rwilton@cisco.com> = wrote:

Hi Kent,

 

Thanks for creating the = issue.

 

I think that errata = falls under section 7 of https://www.ietf.org/about/groups/iesg/statements/processing-rf= c-errata/, and could be classified as =E2=80=9CHold for Document = Update=E2=80=9D.  I.e. =E2=80=9CChanges that modify the working of a protocol to something that might be = different from the intended consensus when the document was approved = should be either Hold for Document Update or Rejected. Deciding between = these two depends on judgment. Changes that are clearly modifications to the intended consensus, or involve large textual = changes, should be Rejected. In unclear situations, small changes can be = Hold for Document Update.=E2=80=9D

 

I think that the consensus of the long term fix (e.g. in YANG = 1.2) is that =E2=80=9Crequire-instance=E2=80=9D should be allowed under = typedefs that refined types that allow it.

 

Pragmatically, I think = that we can mark this errata is a =E2=80=9CHold for Document Update=E2=80=9D= , with the accompanying errata notes (derived from Radek=E2=80=99s = comments) changed to:

 

=E2=80=9CThe document does not specify whether the = =E2=80=9Crequire-instance=E2=80=9D keyword is allowed in typedef = refinements derived from the =E2=80=9Cleafref=E2=80=9D or = =E2=80=9Cinstance-identifier=E2=80=9D base types, but it is anticipated = that a future revision of YANG would allow this.   It is suggested = that modules using YANG language versions 1 [RFC 6020] and 1.1 [RFC = 7950] avoid using this construct, YANG module validation tools flag a = warning if this construct is used, but implementations allow this if possible.=E2=80=9D

 

Does anyone object to this course of action (or wishes to = refine my errata notes)?

 

Regards,

Rob

 

 

From:= Kent Watsen <kent+ietf@watsen.net>
Sent: 23 April 2020 17:59
To: Andy Bierman <andy@yumaworks.com>
Cc: Radek Krejci <rkrejci@cesnet.cz>; = Juergen Schoenwaelder <j.schoenwaelder@jacobs-university.de>; Martin = Bj=C3=B6rklund <mbj+ietf@4668.se>; netmod@ietf.org; Rob Wilton (rwilton) <rwilton@cisco.com>
Subject: Re: [netmod] [Technical Errata Reported] = RFC7950 (6031)

 

The consensus seems to be that:

  - the errata should be = rejected

        - = Rob, do you agree?

  - YANG-next should fix it = later

        - I = created https://github.com/netmod-wg/yang-next/issues/104

  - implementations should = try to do the right thing now

        - = Radek=E2=80=99s suggestion below LGTM!

 

 

Tallies:

   - for reject: Andy, = Martin, Juergen, and Kent 

   - for accept: Radek, = and Balazs

   - unclear: Lada, = Rob, and Jason

 

 

Kent // as co-chair

 

 

On Apr 14, 2020, at 10:35 AM, = Andy Bierman <andy@yumaworks.com> wrote:

 

Hi,

 

I agree with Juergen that this = errata should be rejected and the issue resolved in yang-next.

No IETF module should use this = construct. It is easy to convert to an equivalent form that is not under = dispute.

 

 

Andy

 

 

On Tue, Apr 14, 2020 at 6:40 AM = Radek Krejci <rkrejci@cesnet.cz> wrote:

Hi,

Dne 09. 04. 20 v 17:26 Kent = Watsen napsal(a):

 

 

On Apr 6, 2020, at 3:42 AM, = Juergen Schoenwaelder <j.schoenwaelder@jacobs-university.de> wrote:

 

The definition I found in RFC 8639 is this:

       leaf stream {
         type stream-ref = {
=            require-= instance false;
         }
         mandatory true;
         description
=            "Indicat= es the event stream to be considered for
=             th= is subscription.";
       }

This could be changed to:

       leaf stream {
         type leafref {
    path "/sn:streams/sn:stream/sn:name";
=            require-= instance false;
         }
         mandatory true;
         description
=            "Indicat= es the event stream to be considered for
=             th= is subscription.";
       }

 

I can confirm that `yanglint` = validates the module cleanly after this change.

 

 

 

On Apr 6, 2020, at 7:38 AM, = Martin Bj=C3=B6rklund <mbj+ietf@4668.se> wrote:

 

I think the correct fix is to = change the text so that
"require-instance" is not classified as a restriction and keep the
default.  

 

Agreed.

 

 

Also, I think that it would be = easiest (for backwards
compatibility w/ existing models) to allow "require-inetance" to be
changed in derived types.

However, this cannot imo be done in an errata.

 

While I appreciate Radek and = Michal=E2=80=99s perspective, I also think that is would be best for the = community for `yanglint` to support this, as they are published modules = doing it.

 


I don't feel as an expert for IETF processes, so I don't know if this = issue can be solved in errata or not (and I'm not sure there is a = consensus on this in mailing list). For the implementation, I would = appreciate at least a consensus on a solution. So far I saw opinions to allow it, to disallow and also to make it = implementation-specific (which means in fact to disallow from the = authors perspective, since there can be a tool disallowing it and we are = saying that such a tool is ok). So, there is no clear way for implementors, which means problems for interoperability - there = will be always someone unhappy and so far I don't know what is the major = opinion to go.

So far, I tend to allow it (accept by libyang), but print warning to = warn authors about possible problems (some tool can refuse such a = module). Is it ok?

Radek


As an aside, I feel that all = modules should be tested against all available validation tools during = the publication process, but to find issues in the modules and well as = possibly improve the tools.

 

Sadly, I only have `yanglint` and = `yangson` available to me.  I just checked for the =E2=80=9Cyang = validator=E2=80=9D project, but both www.yangvalidator.com and https://www.yangcatalog.org/yangvalidator seem to be down.

 

 

Kent // contributor

 

 

_______________________________________________
netmod mailing list
netmod@ietf.org
https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/netmod

 


= --Apple-Mail=_E49423B5-31BE-45FE-9D3B-CABE1E4DCB41-- From nobody Sat Apr 25 19:52:41 2020 Return-Path: X-Original-To: netmod@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: netmod@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id AE63A3A091E; Sat, 25 Apr 2020 19:52:38 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.9 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.9 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id kjcNKWPRTRCH; Sat, 25 Apr 2020 19:52:36 -0700 (PDT) Received: from huawei.com (lhrrgout.huawei.com [185.176.76.210]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 20D1F3A091D; Sat, 25 Apr 2020 19:52:36 -0700 (PDT) Received: from lhreml701-cah.china.huawei.com (unknown [172.18.7.108]) by Forcepoint Email with ESMTP id 6BE91F6D24A5CA1B172A; Sun, 26 Apr 2020 03:52:34 +0100 (IST) Received: from DGGEML406-HUB.china.huawei.com (10.3.17.50) by lhreml701-cah.china.huawei.com (10.201.108.42) with Microsoft SMTP Server (TLS) id 14.3.487.0; Sun, 26 Apr 2020 03:52:34 +0100 Received: from DGGEML531-MBS.china.huawei.com ([169.254.5.240]) by dggeml406-hub.china.huawei.com ([10.3.17.50]) with mapi id 14.03.0487.000; Sun, 26 Apr 2020 10:52:16 +0800 From: Qin Wu To: Benjamin Kaduk CC: The IESG , "draft-ietf-netmod-factory-default@ietf.org" , "netmod-chairs@ietf.org" , "netmod@ietf.org" , Kent Watsen Thread-Topic: Benjamin Kaduk's No Objection on draft-ietf-netmod-factory-default-14: (with COMMENT) Thread-Index: AdYbdZcNcACFcVQEScmtfSM/14RcnA== Date: Sun, 26 Apr 2020 02:52:15 +0000 Message-ID: Accept-Language: zh-CN, en-US Content-Language: zh-CN X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-originating-ip: [10.138.33.123] Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-CFilter-Loop: Reflected Archived-At: Subject: Re: [netmod] Benjamin Kaduk's No Objection on draft-ietf-netmod-factory-default-14: (with COMMENT) X-BeenThere: netmod@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: NETMOD WG list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sun, 26 Apr 2020 02:52:39 -0000 SGksIEJlbjoNCi0tLS0t6YKu5Lu25Y6f5Lu2LS0tLS0NCuWPkeS7tuS6ujogQmVuamFtaW4gS2Fk dWsgW21haWx0bzprYWR1a0BtaXQuZWR1XSANCuWPkemAgeaXtumXtDogMjAyMOW5tDTmnIgyNeaX pSAzOjM3DQrmlLbku7bkuro6IFFpbiBXdSA8YmlsbC53dUBodWF3ZWkuY29tPg0K5oqE6YCBOiBU aGUgSUVTRyA8aWVzZ0BpZXRmLm9yZz47IGRyYWZ0LWlldGYtbmV0bW9kLWZhY3RvcnktZGVmYXVs dEBpZXRmLm9yZzsgbmV0bW9kLWNoYWlyc0BpZXRmLm9yZzsgbmV0bW9kQGlldGYub3JnOyBLZW50 IFdhdHNlbiA8a2VudCtpZXRmQHdhdHNlbi5uZXQ+DQrkuLvpopg6IFJlOiBCZW5qYW1pbiBLYWR1 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([10.1.199.40]) with mapi id 14.03.0487.000; Sun, 26 Apr 2020 10:59:49 +0800 From: Qin Wu To: "Rob Wilton (rwilton)" , Roman Danyliw CC: "netmod-chairs@ietf.org" , Kent Watsen , "draft-ietf-netmod-factory-default@ietf.org" , "netmod@ietf.org" , The IESG Thread-Topic: Roman Danyliw's Discuss on draft-ietf-netmod-factory-default-14: (with DISCUSS and COMMENT) Thread-Index: AdYbdbsMnoEFz/hyTqarVVrzgqdgtw== Date: Sun, 26 Apr 2020 02:59:49 +0000 Message-ID: Accept-Language: zh-CN, en-US Content-Language: zh-CN X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-originating-ip: [10.138.33.123] Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-CFilter-Loop: Reflected Archived-At: Subject: Re: [netmod] Roman Danyliw's Discuss on draft-ietf-netmod-factory-default-14: (with DISCUSS and COMMENT) X-BeenThere: netmod@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: NETMOD WG list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , 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b2xsb3cgdGhpcyB0ZW1wbGF0ZSwgSSBhbSB3b25kZXJpbmcgaG93IGl0IGlzIGRpZmZlcmVudCAN Cj4gZnJvbSB0aGUgc2Vjb25kIHBhcmFncmFwaCBvZiBzZWN0aW9uIDY/IEkgc2VlIHRoZXkgYXJl IGVxdWl2YWxlbnQgYnV0IA0KPiB3aXRoIG1vcmUgZmluZSBncmFudWxhcml0eSBzZWN1cml0eSBt ZWFzdXJlcywgaWYgbXkgdW5kZXJzdGFuZGluZyBpcyBjb3JyZWN0Lg0KDQo= From nobody Sat Apr 25 20:06:21 2020 Return-Path: X-Original-To: netmod@ietf.org Delivered-To: netmod@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from ietfa.amsl.com (localhost [IPv6:::1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5B8803A097F; Sat, 25 Apr 2020 20:06:00 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: internet-drafts@ietf.org To: Cc: netmod@ietf.org X-Test-IDTracker: no X-IETF-IDTracker: 6.127.0 Auto-Submitted: auto-generated Precedence: bulk Reply-To: netmod@ietf.org Message-ID: <158787036029.24604.1162394826065202338@ietfa.amsl.com> Date: Sat, 25 Apr 2020 20:06:00 -0700 Archived-At: Subject: [netmod] I-D Action: draft-ietf-netmod-factory-default-15.txt X-BeenThere: netmod@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 List-Id: NETMOD WG list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sun, 26 Apr 2020 03:06:01 -0000 A New Internet-Draft is available from the on-line Internet-Drafts directories. This draft is a work item of the Network Modeling WG of the IETF. Title : A YANG Data Model for Factory Default Settings Authors : Qin Wu Balazs Lengyel Ye Niu Filename : draft-ietf-netmod-factory-default-15.txt Pages : 13 Date : 2020-04-25 Abstract: This document defines a YANG data model with the "factory-reset" RPC to allow clients to reset a server back to its factory default condition. It also defines an optional "factory-default" datastore to allow clients to read the factory default configuration for the device. The YANG data model in this document conforms to the Network Management Datastore Architecture (NMDA) defined in RFC 8342. The IETF datatracker status page for this draft is: https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-netmod-factory-default/ There are also htmlized versions available at: https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-netmod-factory-default-15 https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/html/draft-ietf-netmod-factory-default-15 A diff from the previous version is available at: https://www.ietf.org/rfcdiff?url2=draft-ietf-netmod-factory-default-15 Please note that it may take a couple of minutes from the time of submission until the htmlized version and diff are available at tools.ietf.org. Internet-Drafts are also available by anonymous FTP at: ftp://ftp.ietf.org/internet-drafts/ From nobody Sat Apr 25 20:12:55 2020 Return-Path: X-Original-To: netmod@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: netmod@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4E5D63A080E; Sat, 25 Apr 2020 20:12:52 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.9 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.9 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id xNQEKw3Q_NmO; Sat, 25 Apr 2020 20:12:49 -0700 (PDT) Received: from huawei.com (lhrrgout.huawei.com [185.176.76.210]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id C70E13A044F; Sat, 25 Apr 2020 20:12:48 -0700 (PDT) Received: from lhreml702-cah.china.huawei.com (unknown [172.18.7.106]) by Forcepoint Email with ESMTP id 4A662E6A4D5530C633B3; Sun, 26 Apr 2020 04:12:47 +0100 (IST) Received: from DGGEML406-HUB.china.huawei.com (10.3.17.50) by lhreml702-cah.china.huawei.com (10.201.108.43) with Microsoft SMTP Server (TLS) id 14.3.487.0; Sun, 26 Apr 2020 04:12:46 +0100 Received: from DGGEML531-MBS.china.huawei.com ([169.254.5.240]) by dggeml406-hub.china.huawei.com ([10.3.17.50]) with mapi id 14.03.0487.000; Sun, 26 Apr 2020 11:12:39 +0800 From: Qin Wu To: Roman Danyliw , "Rob Wilton (rwilton)" CC: "netmod-chairs@ietf.org" , Kent Watsen , "draft-ietf-netmod-factory-default@ietf.org" , "netmod@ietf.org" , The IESG Thread-Topic: Roman Danyliw's Discuss on draft-ietf-netmod-factory-default-14: (with DISCUSS and COMMENT) Thread-Index: AdYbeD8XbWCQ60YxQO+O0909DQRKoQ== Date: Sun, 26 Apr 2020 03:12:38 +0000 Message-ID: Accept-Language: zh-CN, en-US Content-Language: zh-CN X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-originating-ip: [10.138.33.123] Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-CFilter-Loop: Reflected Archived-At: Subject: Re: [netmod] Roman Danyliw's Discuss on draft-ietf-netmod-factory-default-14: (with DISCUSS and COMMENT) X-BeenThere: netmod@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: NETMOD WG list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sun, 26 Apr 2020 03:12:53 -0000 SGksIFJvbWFuOg0KUGxlYXNlIHJldmlldyB0aGUgZGlmZiBhbmQgc2VlIGlmIHlvdXIgY29tbWVu dHMgYXJlIGFkZHJlc3NlZCBhbmQgeW91ciBESVNDVVNTIGNhbiBiZSBjbGVhcmVkLg0KaHR0cHM6 Ly93d3cuaWV0Zi5vcmcvcmZjZGlmZj91cmwyPWRyYWZ0LWlldGYtbmV0bW9kLWZhY3RvcnktZGVm YXVsdC0xNQ0KVGhhbmtzIQ0KDQotUWluDQotLS0tLemCruS7tuWOn+S7ti0tLS0tDQrlj5Hku7bk uro6IFFpbiBXdSANCuWPkemAgeaXtumXtDogMjAyMOW5tDTmnIgyNuaXpSAxMTowMA0K5pS25Lu2 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mapi id 15.20.2958.014; Mon, 27 Apr 2020 11:07:56 +0000 From: tom petch To: =?iso-8859-1?Q?Martin_Bj=F6rklund?= , "rwilton=40cisco.com@dmarc.ietf.org" CC: "netmod@ietf.org" Thread-Topic: [netmod] "uint24" in rfc6991-bis? 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X-BeenThere: netmod@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: NETMOD WG list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 27 Apr 2020 11:08:02 -0000 From: netmod on behalf of Martin Bj=F6rklund =0A= Sent: 23 April 2020 10:57=0A= =0A= "Rob Wilton \(rwilton\)" wrote:=0A= > [As an individual contributor]=0A= >=0A= > > -----Original Message-----=0A= > > From: netmod On Behalf Of Juergen=0A= > > Schoenwaelder=0A= > > Sent: 22 April 2020 23:09=0A= > > To: Robert Varga =0A= > > Cc: netmod@ietf.org=0A= > > Subject: Re: [netmod] "uint24" in rfc6991-bis?=0A= > >=0A= > > On Wed, Apr 22, 2020 at 11:17:26PM +0200, Robert Varga wrote:=0A= > > > Hello,=0A= > > >=0A= > > > a number of IETF protocols-and-whatnots are operating on unsigned=0A= > > > 24bit (or 3-octet) entities. For example:=0A= > > >=0A= > > > https://tools.ietf.org/html/rfc7471#section-4.1.5=0A= > > > https://tools.ietf.org/html/rfc7471#section-4.4.5=0A= > > > SRGB range start/length in https://tools.ietf.org/html/rfc8669=0A= > >=0A= > > For these use cases, it might be also a good idea to define types that= =0A= > > capture the additional semantics. SRGB seems to consist of two 24-bit= =0A= > > values - I can't tell whether it makes sense to model this 6-octet=0A= > > value=0A= > > as two 3-octet values in YANG.=0A= > >=0A= > > > I wonder whether it would make sense to provide something like:=0A= > > >=0A= > > > type uint24 {=0A= > > > type uint32;=0A= > > > range 0..16777215;=0A= > > > }=0A= > > >=0A= > > > in ietf-inet-types as a common base type for such definitions.=0A= > >=0A= > > If we add such a definition, it likely should go into ietf-yang-types.= =0A= > [RW]=0A= >=0A= > I would find this type somewhat confusing in the sense that it mixing=0A= > the underlying YANG datatype with the range of the value space,=0A= =0A= I agree.=0A= =0A= > e.g., I don't think of uint8 as=0A= > type uint8 {=0A= > type uint32;=0A= > range 0..255;=0A= > }=0A= >=0A= > because the encoding is allowed to be different. Perhaps having a=0A= > slightly different name would help avoid possible confusion with the=0A= > built in types?=0A= =0A= Then the question is if it really is so common so that we need a type=0A= in ietf-yang-types for this.=0A= =0A= =0A= =0A= I think not. As Juergen said, where there is a 24 bit quantity, there are = probably other semantics e.g. meaning of the maximum and minimum values com= es to mind - and so a more specific type for that application seems a bette= r idea.=0A= =0A= Tom Petch=0A= =0A= /martin=0A= =0A= =0A= >=0A= > Regards,=0A= > Rob=0A= >=0A= >=0A= > >=0A= > > /js=0A= > >=0A= > > --=0A= > > Juergen Schoenwaelder Jacobs University Bremen gGmbH=0A= > > Phone: +49 421 200 3587 Campus Ring 1 | 28759 Bremen | Germany= =0A= > > Fax: +49 421 200 3103 =0A= > >=0A= > > _______________________________________________=0A= > > netmod mailing list=0A= > > netmod@ietf.org=0A= > > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/netmod=0A= >=0A= > _______________________________________________=0A= > netmod mailing list=0A= > netmod@ietf.org=0A= > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/netmod=0A= =0A= _______________________________________________=0A= netmod mailing list=0A= netmod@ietf.org=0A= https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/netmod=0A= 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15.20.2937.023; Mon, 27 Apr 2020 11:20:20 +0000 From: "Rob Wilton (rwilton)" To: Kent Watsen CC: "netmod@ietf.org" Thread-Topic: [netmod] [Technical Errata Reported] RFC7950 (6031) Thread-Index: AQHWBCEZ+1dLitN/gE+4JTO6Fuc0uqhcjXeAgAAFCACAAAp/AIAKthqggAAbPjCAAAgogIAAACPQgAAQA4CAABcY0IAAC2gAgAQORwCAAA4ygIAFOHsAgAe+IACAAA9dgIAOTScAgAALFlCAAc0JgIAEEdZg Date: Mon, 27 Apr 2020 11:20:20 +0000 Message-ID: References: <20200327161318.ykrx2s36bhmaglxq@anna.jacobs.jacobs-university.de> <20200403.155421.968858617291773287.id@4668.se> <9c3ee87c0e9d14c8921796c4b53d44620b53a942.camel@nic.cz> <20200403165538.2lk4x5j32e3ctl4t@anna.jacobs.jacobs-university.de> <0a546588-6f87-3362-17da-37de8ea08956@cesnet.cz> <20200406074235.o6gkpjsim77xfzv7@anna.jacobs.jacobs-university.de> <010001715f8c4aa2-21fad32a-36d7-441e-bbb7-24e3aef1c229-000000@email.amazonses.com> <5319ca95-1f3a-33e6-aae3-cfd9861d59d7@cesnet.cz> <01000171a7fa898b-696030c8-0c3d-4e36-b2f1-49af349e1c0d-000000@email.amazonses.com> 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certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id C80B73A0DAC; Mon, 27 Apr 2020 09:07:52 -0700 (PDT) Received: from kduck.mit.edu ([24.16.140.251]) (authenticated bits=56) (User authenticated as kaduk@ATHENA.MIT.EDU) by outgoing.mit.edu (8.14.7/8.12.4) with ESMTP id 03RG7IZ5014506 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 bits=256 verify=NOT); Mon, 27 Apr 2020 12:07:21 -0400 Date: Mon, 27 Apr 2020 09:07:18 -0700 From: Benjamin Kaduk To: Qin Wu Cc: The IESG , "draft-ietf-netmod-factory-default@ietf.org" , "netmod-chairs@ietf.org" , "netmod@ietf.org" , Kent Watsen Message-ID: <20200427160718.GW27494@kduck.mit.edu> References: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit In-Reply-To: User-Agent: Mutt/1.12.1 (2019-06-15) Archived-At: Subject: Re: [netmod] Benjamin Kaduk's No Objection on draft-ietf-netmod-factory-default-14: (with COMMENT) X-BeenThere: netmod@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: NETMOD WG list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 27 Apr 2020 16:07:57 -0000 Hi Qin, The new updates look good, thanks. -Ben On Sun, Apr 26, 2020 at 02:52:15AM +0000, Qin Wu wrote: > Hi, Ben: > -----邮件原件----- > å‘件人: Benjamin Kaduk [mailto:kaduk@mit.edu] > å‘é€æ—¶é—´: 2020å¹´4月25æ—¥ 3:37 > 收件人: Qin Wu > 抄é€: The IESG ; draft-ietf-netmod-factory-default@ietf.org; netmod-chairs@ietf.org; netmod@ietf.org; Kent Watsen > 主题: Re: Benjamin Kaduk's No Objection on draft-ietf-netmod-factory-default-14: (with COMMENT) > > On Thu, Apr 23, 2020 at 04:54:37AM +0000, Qin Wu wrote: > > Hi, Ben: > > Thanks for your valuable comments, see reply inline below. > > -----邮件原件----- > > å‘件人: Benjamin Kaduk via Datatracker [mailto:noreply@ietf.org] > > å‘é€æ—¶é—´: 2020å¹´4月23æ—¥ 9:39 > > 收件人: The IESG > > 抄é€: draft-ietf-netmod-factory-default@ietf.org; > > netmod-chairs@ietf.org; netmod@ietf.org; Kent Watsen > > ; kent+ietf@watsen.net > > 主题: Benjamin Kaduk's No Objection on > > draft-ietf-netmod-factory-default-14: (with COMMENT) > > > > Benjamin Kaduk has entered the following ballot position for > > draft-ietf-netmod-factory-default-14: No Objection > > > > When responding, please keep the subject line intact and reply to all > > email addresses included in the To and CC lines. (Feel free to cut > > this introductory paragraph, however.) > > > > > > Please refer to > > https://www.ietf.org/iesg/statement/discuss-criteria.html > > for more information about IESG DISCUSS and COMMENT positions. > > > > > > The document, along with other ballot positions, can be found here: > > https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-netmod-factory-default/ > > > > > > > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > > COMMENT: > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > > > > While many of the secdir reviewer's complaints stem from the YANG security considerations boilerplate, it still seems like it would be worth some form of response to the review. > > > > [Qin]: You are correct, we authors also bring up the discussion on > > sec-review comment on YANG security consideration boilerplate to netmod list. I have sent my response to the sec-review, Thanks for kindly reminder. > > > > Section 1 > > > > This document defines a method to reset a server to its factory > > default content. The reset operation may be used, e.g., when the > > existing configuration has major errors so re-starting the > > configuration process from scratch is the best option. > > > > A "factory-reset" RPC is defined. When resetting a device, all > > previous configuration settings will be lost and replaced by the > > factory default content. > > > > nit: these two paragraphs talk about the same thing, but the next paragraph is a different thing. It may be better to combine these two in to a single paragraph. > > [Qin]:The format of this section is to first introduce what method we proposed? And then introduce what this method look like, or two key components for this method, i.e., one new factory-reset RPC and one new factory datastore. > > If the first pargaraph is trying to introduce everything, then it should mention both the RPC and the datastore. Right now, I only see it talking about the RPC (well, the "reset operation"), and thus it does not seem like a general introduction as opposed to an introduction specific to the RPC. > > [Qin]: I see your point, a few clarification: YANG data model will include RPC definition and datastore definition and A device MAY implement the "factory-reset" RPC without > implementing the "factory-default" datastore. In addition, we want to avoid duplicated text in both abstraction and introduction. Based on this clarification, I propose the following change: > OLD TEXT: > " > This document defines a method to reset a server to its factory > default content. The reset operation may be used, e.g., when the > existing configuration has major errors so re-starting the > configuration process from scratch is the best option. > > A "factory-reset" RPC is defined. When resetting a device, all > previous configuration settings will be lost and replaced by the > factory default content. > > A "factory-default" read-only datastore is defined, that contains the > data to replace the contents of implemented read-write conventional > configuration datastores at reset. This datastore can also be used > in the operation. > " > NEW TEXT: > " > This document defines a YANG data model and associated mechanism to > reset a server to its factory default content. This mechanism may be > used, e.g., when the existing configuration has major errors so re- > starting the configuration process from scratch is the best option. > > A "factory-reset" RPC is defined within the YANG data model. When > resetting a device, all previous configuration settings will be lost > and replaced by the factory default content. > > In addition, an optional "factory-default" read-only datastore is > defined within the YANG data model, that contains the data to replace > the contents of implemented read-write conventional configuration > datastores at reset. This datastore can also be used in the data> operation. > " > > I prefer to keep as it is. Maybe we could tweak the first paragraph a little bit as follows: > > " > > This document defines a method to reset a server to its factory > > default content. This method may be used, e.g., when the > > existing configuration has major errors so re-starting the > > configuration process from scratch is the best option. > > " > > A "factory-default" read-only datastore is defined, that contains the > > data to replace the contents of implemented read-write conventional > > configuration datastores at reset. [...] > > > > Can I suggest instead: > > > > % A "factory-default" read-only datastore is defined, that reflects what the % conventional read-write datastores would be overwritten with in the case of % a factory-reset operation. > > [Qin]: Looks equivalent, but I think the original one is more clear. > > To me the phrase "the data to replace the contents of [...] at reset" is awkward, but your opinion as author trumps mine, here. > > > Section 2 > > > > All security > > sensitive data (i.e., private keys, passwords, etc.) SHOULD be > > overwritten with zeros or a pattern before deletion. [...] > > > > I might suggest instead: > > > > % When this process includes security-sensitive data such as cryptographic keys or passwords, it is RECOMMENDED to perform the deletion in a manner as thorough as possible (e.g., overwriting the physical storage medium with zeros and/or random bits) to reduce the risk of the sensitive material being recoverable. > > > > [Qin]: Sounds reasonable to me, thanks. > > It's probably worth noting that since this is only dymanically generated files, any cryptographic keys that are part of the factory-installed image will be retained (such as an IDevID certificate). > > [Qin]:If this is conclusion of the draft-ietf-anima-bootstrapping-keyinfra discussion, yes, will consider it. > > Section 3 > > > > Following the guidelines for defining Datastores in the appendix A of > > [RFC8342], this document introduces a new optional datastore resource > > named "factory-default" that represents a preconfigured initial > > configuration that can be used to initialize the configuration of a > > > > nit/soapbox: "preconfigured initial configuration" feels like an awkward wording to me; perhaps "pre-set initial configuration" or "fixed initial configuration"? > > > > [Qin]: I see they are equivalent, but I am happy to take your proposal. > > > > Section 4 > > > > description > > "This read-only datastore contains the factory default > > configuration for the device used to replace the contents > > of the read-write conventional configuration datastores > > during a 'factory-reset' RPC operation."; > > > > nit: the grammar here is off; maybe "for the device that will be used"? > > (Or some adaptation of my proposed text from earlier.) > > [Qin]: Sounds good to me. > > > > Section 6 > > > > If the factory-default configuration is an "open" one, then performing the reset could leave the device (and thus the network!) vulnerable to attack until it is properly configured. The rtgdir reviewer's comments seem related to this. > > > > An attacker that could somehow cause the factory-reset to be performed would cause the loss of running state/crypto keys that would potentially require a lot of operator effort to recover (in addition to the more immediate DoS issues). > > > > There is some discussion in draft-ietf-anima-bootstrapping-keyinfra about attacks that are possible when a device is restored to its factory default state; it might be worth trying to incorporate some of that discussion in some manner (whether inline or by reference). > > [Qin]: Okay and will consider it. > > Thanks! > > > The "factory-reset" RPC can prevent any further management of the > > device if the session and client config are included in the factory > > default contents. > > > > I'm not sure this is 100% correct. If the factory default config overwrites this items, then yes, it will prevent further management. But we also say to delete dynamic files from nonvoliatile storage, which at least to me seems like it could include this class of items and cause the same symptoms even if the configuration items in question are not included in the factory default contents. > > [Qin] It seems your comment is related to Eric's. Overwriting happen before deletion, Overwriting can be used to prevent such symptom. > > I don't think it's related to Éric's comment, so I assume my meaning was not clear. > > I agree that if if session and client config are included in the factory default contents, this means the "factory-reset" RPC can prevent further management of the device. I *also* think that there are more cases where the "factory-reset" RPC can prevent further management of the device (and that we should mention mention the possibility of that, since the current text is easy to read as saying that the listed case is the only such case). > In particular, if the session and client config are *not* in the factory default contents, but are instead treated as dynamic files on the nonvoliatile storage, the RPC will overwrite such config and thus prevent further management of the device. > > [Qin]:Thanks for your clarification, here is the proposed change: > OLD TEXT: > " > The "factory-reset" RPC can prevent any further management of the > device if the session and client config are included in the factory > default contents. > " > NEW TEXT: > " > The "factory-reset" RPC can prevent any further management of the > device when the server is reset back to its factory default > condition, e.g., the session and client config are included in the > factory default contents or treated as dynamic files on the > nonvoliatile storage and overwritten by the the "factory-reset" RPC. > " > -Ben From nobody Mon Apr 27 10:30:28 2020 Return-Path: X-Original-To: netmod@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: netmod@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9403D3A1229 for ; Mon, 27 Apr 2020 10:30:25 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.097 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.097 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_EF=-0.1, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=unavailable autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=gmail.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id H7-rrFvpTo08 for ; Mon, 27 Apr 2020 10:30:21 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail-pg1-x52a.google.com (mail-pg1-x52a.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:4864:20::52a]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id AFE633A1233 for ; Mon, 27 Apr 2020 10:30:21 -0700 (PDT) Received: by mail-pg1-x52a.google.com with SMTP id t11so8993687pgg.2 for ; Mon, 27 Apr 2020 10:30:21 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20161025; h=from:message-id:mime-version:subject:date:in-reply-to:cc:to :references; bh=hfee5v/c9nMTcVLCndq1s6NDlULWjSDjp1Qb/W7QcB8=; b=FAUgA9T1znjA26vCV4ksTVG69dsjniqXpKCDNVJxGovNtNGY8jtTQU+6AcazveGVta uK/ptR3cLk61JisVDMhElc/3U0v6ET3rgjQG1RiHKAnbnM76SkAjtHu91XRz4QSK8SiG X4fwgjYREZtP6BckFwjBkblTmqagew0xp+uUemvcYMztsQkyH9lU45VYIsGfwWrejhNP IoYFFeidqfGNhUvOYbya5eD8Au/Pe8YLPB+JNCMxB57+xKnmkvrLfD4HsqUBlAbuyXdD rLwT44B9RSLug94noHtCgxYM1zSAOk5utYvx9SfFdteamUIa0qrc5SdmAkHhPgMi/AEu 2cjA== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:from:message-id:mime-version:subject:date :in-reply-to:cc:to:references; bh=hfee5v/c9nMTcVLCndq1s6NDlULWjSDjp1Qb/W7QcB8=; b=qK/gNHkio7Zdu3U86iqk22zwv/+ruyMqkQ9hRhIIqkz40X2F3a3j5ptO+9134ge98l cI094noIANJspBjYwQwp8iXZZUEX/2+JF8VElFGK9Au+RUfpXXvF3vl6xK1Tp1RLPt8q Pk54Q8rS2TJm0udTHCInyazpMPPOYYeON31K6HTaTvcEtTVtK+SU80LDVIusV5dB3APt 9M3DOMhdjjj9DRQynXagYHMxcvK03xYGZPao2245PZFKO15Hs0zh60bAmgBsN22IHQI+ yByyWCPWfKGYdhzD3u6e3wjrvhgzSeQfblhToikjfHbbyCD66gF7CxfdaaAvsvdE+8ee IGlw== X-Gm-Message-State: AGi0PuY1J84LB9DEkNa+u+Vhiccrlh7xgNdGATqWawGrruGP5cx6aP1W fogWJxp2r98uw1jGxUKMbtw= X-Google-Smtp-Source: APiQypLB/Z5q8VWB/C295Gd11KR5BZECBHGG0KayBuZyWKzE5DdU7towmvT/zdgFL3KTpxcpRMbrvQ== X-Received: by 2002:aa7:9889:: with SMTP id r9mr25345289pfl.233.1588008620957; Mon, 27 Apr 2020 10:30:20 -0700 (PDT) Received: from ?IPv6:2601:647:5600:5020:a91a:d26:27c6:4cad? ([2601:647:5600:5020:a91a:d26:27c6:4cad]) by smtp.gmail.com with ESMTPSA id w28sm11206398pgc.26.2020.04.27.10.30.19 (version=TLS1_2 cipher=ECDHE-ECDSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 bits=128/128); Mon, 27 Apr 2020 10:30:20 -0700 (PDT) From: Mahesh Jethanandani Message-Id: <73F9BE25-EE7E-4A99-B61D-3740BB850E35@gmail.com> Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="Apple-Mail=_B5246D7A-245F-4109-8F7B-167B3A1FDC46" Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 11.5 \(3445.9.5\)) Date: Mon, 27 Apr 2020 10:30:18 -0700 In-Reply-To: Cc: "Rob Wilton (rwilton)" , Kent Watsen , "netmod@ietf.org" To: Jason Sterne References: <20200327161318.ykrx2s36bhmaglxq@anna.jacobs.jacobs-university.de> <20200403.155421.968858617291773287.id@4668.se> <9c3ee87c0e9d14c8921796c4b53d44620b53a942.camel@nic.cz> <20200403165538.2lk4x5j32e3ctl4t@anna.jacobs.jacobs-university.de> <0a546588-6f87-3362-17da-37de8ea08956@cesnet.cz> <20200406074235.o6gkpjsim77xfzv7@anna.jacobs.jacobs-university.de> <010001715f8c4aa2-21fad32a-36d7-441e-bbb7-24e3aef1c229-000000@email.amazonses.com> <5319ca95-1f3a-33e6-aae3-cfd9861d59d7@cesnet.cz> <01000171a7fa898b-696030c8-0c3d-4e36-b2f1-49af349e1c0d-000000@email.amazonses.com> X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.3445.9.5) Archived-At: Subject: Re: [netmod] [Technical Errata Reported] RFC7950 (6031) X-BeenThere: netmod@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: NETMOD WG list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 27 Apr 2020 17:30:26 -0000 --Apple-Mail=_B5246D7A-245F-4109-8F7B-167B3A1FDC46 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 +1. > On Apr 24, 2020, at 12:39 PM, Sterne, Jason (Nokia - CA/Ottawa) = wrote: >=20 > That seems like a reasonable approach to me. > Jason > =20 > From: netmod On Behalf Of Rob Wilton = (rwilton) > Sent: Friday, April 24, 2020 3:34 PM > To: Kent Watsen ; netmod@ietf.org > Subject: Re: [netmod] [Technical Errata Reported] RFC7950 (6031) > =20 > Hi Kent, > =20 > Thanks for creating the issue. > =20 > I think that errata falls under section 7 = ofhttps://www.ietf.org/about/groups/iesg/statements/processing-rfc-errata/= = = , and could be classified as =E2=80=9CHold for Document Update=E2=80=9D. = I.e. =E2=80=9CChanges that modify the working of a protocol to = something that might be different from the intended consensus when the = document was approved should be either Hold for Document Update or = Rejected. Deciding between these two depends on judgment. Changes that = are clearly modifications to the intended consensus, or involve large = textual changes, should be Rejected. In unclear situations, small = changes can be Hold for Document Update.=E2=80=9D > =20 > I think that the consensus of the long term fix (e.g. in YANG 1.2) is = that =E2=80=9Crequire-instance=E2=80=9D should be allowed under typedefs = that refined types that allow it. > =20 > Pragmatically, I think that we can mark this errata is a =E2=80=9CHold = for Document Update=E2=80=9D, with the accompanying errata notes = (derived from Radek=E2=80=99s comments) changed to: > =20 > =E2=80=9CThe document does not specify whether the = =E2=80=9Crequire-instance=E2=80=9D keyword is allowed in typedef = refinements derived from the =E2=80=9Cleafref=E2=80=9D or = =E2=80=9Cinstance-identifier=E2=80=9D base types, but it is anticipated = that a future revision of YANG would allow this. It is suggested that = modules using YANG language versions 1 [RFC 6020] and 1.1 [RFC 7950] = avoid using this construct, YANG module validation tools flag a warning = if this construct is used, but implementations allow this if = possible.=E2=80=9D > =20 > Does anyone object to this course of action (or wishes to refine my = errata notes)? > =20 > Regards, > Rob > =20 > =20 > From: Kent Watsen >=20= > Sent: 23 April 2020 17:59 > To: Andy Bierman > > Cc: Radek Krejci >; = Juergen Schoenwaelder >; Martin Bj=C3=B6rklund = >; netmod@ietf.org = ; Rob Wilton (rwilton) > > Subject: Re: [netmod] [Technical Errata Reported] RFC7950 (6031) > =20 > The consensus seems to be that: > - the errata should be rejected > - Rob, do you agree? > - YANG-next should fix it later > - I created https://github.com/netmod-wg/yang-next/issues/104 = > - implementations should try to do the right thing now > - Radek=E2=80=99s suggestion below LGTM! > =20 > =20 > Tallies: > - for reject: Andy, Martin, Juergen, and Kent=20 > - for accept: Radek, and Balazs > - unclear: Lada, Rob, and Jason > =20 > =20 > Kent // as co-chair > =20 > =20 >=20 > On Apr 14, 2020, at 10:35 AM, Andy Bierman > wrote: > =20 > Hi, > =20 > I agree with Juergen that this errata should be rejected and the issue = resolved in yang-next. > No IETF module should use this construct. It is easy to convert to an = equivalent form that is not under dispute. > =20 > =20 > Andy > =20 > =20 > On Tue, Apr 14, 2020 at 6:40 AM Radek Krejci > wrote: > Hi, >=20 > Dne 09. 04. 20 v 17:26 Kent Watsen napsal(a): > =20 > =20 >=20 > On Apr 6, 2020, at 3:42 AM, Juergen Schoenwaelder = > wrote: > =20 > The definition I found in RFC 8639 is this: >=20 > leaf stream { > type stream-ref { > require-instance false; > } > mandatory true; > description > "Indicates the event stream to be considered for > this subscription."; > } >=20 > This could be changed to: >=20 > leaf stream { > type leafref { > path "/sn:streams/sn:stream/sn:name"; > require-instance false; > } > mandatory true; > description > "Indicates the event stream to be considered for > this subscription."; > } >=20 > =20 > I can confirm that `yanglint` validates the module cleanly after this = change. > =20 > =20 > =20 > On Apr 6, 2020, at 7:38 AM, Martin Bj=C3=B6rklund > wrote: > =20 > I think the correct fix is to change the text so that > "require-instance" is not classified as a restriction and keep the > default. =20 > =20 > Agreed. > =20 > =20 >=20 > Also, I think that it would be easiest (for backwards > compatibility w/ existing models) to allow "require-inetance" to be > changed in derived types. >=20 > However, this cannot imo be done in an errata. > =20 > While I appreciate Radek and Michal=E2=80=99s perspective, I also = think that is would be best for the community for `yanglint` to support = this, as they are published modules doing it. > =20 >=20 > I don't feel as an expert for IETF processes, so I don't know if this = issue can be solved in errata or not (and I'm not sure there is a = consensus on this in mailing list). For the implementation, I would = appreciate at least a consensus on a solution. So far I saw opinions to = allow it, to disallow and also to make it implementation-specific (which = means in fact to disallow from the authors perspective, since there can = be a tool disallowing it and we are saying that such a tool is ok). So, = there is no clear way for implementors, which means problems for = interoperability - there will be always someone unhappy and so far I = don't know what is the major opinion to go.=20 >=20 > So far, I tend to allow it (accept by libyang), but print warning to = warn authors about possible problems (some tool can refuse such a = module). Is it ok? >=20 > Radek >=20 >=20 > As an aside, I feel that all modules should be tested against all = available validation tools during the publication process, but to find = issues in the modules and well as possibly improve the tools. > =20 > Sadly, I only have `yanglint` and `yangson` available to me. I just = checked for the =E2=80=9Cyang validator=E2=80=9D project, but both = www.yangvalidator.com and = https://www.yangcatalog.org/yangvalidator = seem to be down. > =20 > =20 > Kent // contributor > =20 > =20 > _______________________________________________ > netmod mailing list > netmod@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/netmod = > =20 > _______________________________________________ > netmod mailing list > netmod@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/netmod --Apple-Mail=_B5246D7A-245F-4109-8F7B-167B3A1FDC46 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/html; charset=utf-8 +1.

On Apr 24, 2020, at 12:39 PM, Sterne, Jason = (Nokia - CA/Ottawa) <jason.sterne@nokia.com> wrote:

That seems like a reasonable approach to me.
Jason
 
From: netmod <netmod-bounces@ietf.org> On Behalf = Of Rob Wilton = (rwilton)
Sent: Friday, April 24, 2020 3:34 = PM
To: Kent Watsen <kent+ietf@watsen.net>; netmod@ietf.org
Subject: Re: [netmod] [Technical = Errata Reported] RFC7950 (6031)
 
Hi Kent,
 
Thanks = for creating the issue.
 
I think that errata falls = under section 7 ofhttps://www.ietf.org/about/groups/iesg/statements/processing-rf= c-errata/, and could be classified as =E2=80=9CHold for Document = Update=E2=80=9D.  I.e. =E2=80=9CChanges that modify the working of a protocol to something = that might be different from the intended consensus when the document = was approved should be either Hold for Document Update or Rejected. = Deciding between these two depends on judgment. Changes that are clearly = modifications to the intended consensus, or involve large textual = changes, should be Rejected. In unclear situations, small changes can be = Hold for Document Update.=E2=80=9D
 
I think that the consensus of = the long term fix (e.g. in YANG 1.2) is that =E2=80=9Crequire-instance=E2=80= =9D should be allowed under typedefs that refined types that allow = it.
 
Pragmatically, I think that = we can mark this errata is a =E2=80=9CHold for Document Update=E2=80=9D, = with the accompanying errata notes (derived from Radek=E2=80=99s = comments) changed to:
 
=E2=80=9CThe document does = not specify whether the =E2=80=9Crequire-instance=E2=80=9D keyword is = allowed in typedef refinements derived from the =E2=80=9Cleafref=E2=80=9D = or =E2=80=9Cinstance-identifier=E2=80=9D base types, but it is = anticipated that a future revision of YANG would allow this. =   It is suggested that modules using YANG language versions 1 = [RFC 6020] and 1.1 [RFC 7950] avoid using this construct, YANG module = validation tools flag a warning if this construct is used, but = implementations allow this if possible.=E2=80=9D
 
Does = anyone object to this course of action (or wishes to refine my errata = notes)?
 
Regards,
Rob
 
 
From: Kent = Watsen <kent+ietf@watsen.net> 
Sent: 23 = April 2020 17:59
To: Andy Bierman <andy@yumaworks.com>
Cc: Radek Krejci <rkrejci@cesnet.cz>; = Juergen Schoenwaelder <j.schoenwaelder@jacobs-university.de>; Martin = Bj=C3=B6rklund <mbj+ietf@4668.se>; netmod@ietf.org; Rob Wilton (rwilton) <rwilton@cisco.com>
Subject: Re: [netmod] [Technical = Errata Reported] RFC7950 (6031)
 
The consensus seems to be = that:
  = - the errata should be rejected
        - = Rob, do you agree?
  - YANG-next should fix it later
  - implementations = should try to do the right thing now
        - = Radek=E2=80=99s suggestion below LGTM!
 
 
Tallies:
   - for reject: Andy, Martin, Juergen, and = Kent 
   - for accept: Radek, and Balazs
   - unclear: Lada, = Rob, and Jason
 
 
Kent // as co-chair
 

 

On Apr 14, 2020, at 10:35 AM, Andy Bierman <andy@yumaworks.com> = wrote:
 
Hi,
 
I agree = with Juergen that this errata should be rejected and the issue resolved = in yang-next.
No IETF = module should use this construct. It is easy to convert to an equivalent = form that is not under dispute.
 
 
Andy
 
 
On Tue, = Apr 14, 2020 at 6:40 AM Radek Krejci <rkrejci@cesnet.cz> = wrote:

Hi,

Dne 09. 04. 20 v 17:26 Kent = Watsen napsal(a):
 

 

On Apr 6, 2020, at 3:42 AM, = Juergen Schoenwaelder <j.schoenwaelder@jacobs-university.de> wrote:
 

The definition I found = in RFC 8639 is this:

       leaf stream {
         type = stream-ref {
          &nb= sp;require-instance false;
         }
         mandatory= true;
         descripti= on
          &nb= sp;"Indicates the event stream to be considered for
          &nb= sp; this subscription.";
       }

This could be changed to:

       leaf stream {
         type = leafref {
    path = "/sn:streams/sn:stream/sn:name";
          &nb= sp;require-instance false;
         }
         mandatory= true;
         descripti= on
          &nb= sp;"Indicates the event stream to be considered for
          &nb= sp; this subscription.";
       }

 
I can confirm that `yanglint` = validates the module cleanly after this change.
 
 
 
On Apr 6, 2020, at 7:38 AM, Martin Bj=C3=B6rklund <mbj+ietf@4668.se> = wrote:
 
I think the correct fix is to = change the text so that
"require-instance" is not = classified as a restriction and keep the
default. =  
 
Agreed.
 

 

Also, I think that it would = be easiest (for backwards
compatibility w/ existing = models) to allow "require-inetance" to be
changed in = derived types.

However, this cannot imo be = done in an errata.
 
While I appreciate Radek and Michal=E2=80=99s perspective, I = also think that is would be best for the community for `yanglint` to = support this, as they are published modules doing it.
 


I don't feel as an expert for IETF processes, so I don't know = if this issue can be solved in errata or not (and I'm not sure there is = a consensus on this in mailing list). For the implementation, I would = appreciate at least a consensus on a solution. So far I saw opinions to = allow it, to disallow and also to make it implementation-specific (which = means in fact to disallow from the authors perspective, since there can = be a tool disallowing it and we are saying that such a tool is ok). So, = there is no clear way for implementors, which means problems for = interoperability - there will be always someone unhappy and so far I = don't know what is the major opinion to go. 

So far, I tend to allow it (accept by libyang), but print = warning to warn authors about possible problems (some tool can refuse = such a module). Is it ok?

Radek

As an aside, I feel that all modules should be tested against = all available validation tools during the publication process, but to = find issues in the modules and well as possibly improve the tools.
 
Sadly, = I only have `yanglint` and `yangson` available to me.  I just = checked for the =E2=80=9Cyang validator=E2=80=9D project, but = both www.yangvalidator.com and https://www.yangcatalog.org/yangvalidator seem to be = down.
 
 
Kent // = contributor
 
 
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"netmod@ietf.org" , Kent Watsen Thread-Topic: Benjamin Kaduk's No Objection on draft-ietf-netmod-factory-default-14: (with COMMENT) Thread-Index: AdYc+d4tBCk+5MTJRQipJhFL4NuBoQ== Date: Tue, 28 Apr 2020 01:10:59 +0000 Message-ID: Accept-Language: zh-CN, en-US Content-Language: zh-CN X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-originating-ip: [10.138.33.123] Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-CFilter-Loop: Reflected Archived-At: Subject: Re: [netmod] Benjamin Kaduk's No Objection on draft-ietf-netmod-factory-default-14: (with COMMENT) X-BeenThere: netmod@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: NETMOD WG list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 28 Apr 2020 01:11:13 -0000 VGhhbmtzIEJlbi4NCg0KLVFpbg0KLS0tLS3pgq7ku7bljp/ku7YtLS0tLQ0K5Y+R5Lu25Lq6OiBC ZW5qYW1pbiBLYWR1ayBbbWFpbHRvOmthZHVrQG1pdC5lZHVdIA0K5Y+R6YCB5pe26Ze0OiAyMDIw 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(amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id FqIGbWUnpN9I for ; Tue, 28 Apr 2020 01:34:32 -0700 (PDT) Received: from office2.cesnet.cz (office2.cesnet.cz [IPv6:2001:718:1:101::144:244]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id CDBF63A1027 for ; Tue, 28 Apr 2020 01:34:30 -0700 (PDT) Received: from [192.168.55.109] (ip4-83-240-38-102.cust.nbox.cz [83.240.38.102]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by office2.cesnet.cz (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 4A0EC400064; Tue, 28 Apr 2020 10:34:25 +0200 (CEST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=cesnet.cz; s=office2-2020; t=1588062866; bh=ElsF+4SBEG+6J4bwp+wMXxdp934vpVtwQZxVUBuExpg=; h=Subject:To:Cc:References:From:Date:In-Reply-To; b=OD/6whO+U73H9vjUwaT14zM8wEfPMlcTFiT4Gc2WRLtDdQYzpbjpkICdnVtH0+rge 6CambX9kmIQxsiKnwdcPeSyItMTHrZR4d889j+1AQg7Z93A8tgcBcXsnqaeQaY52xd TApWLG4EwAjwl0Oy7O+O+8G2s4h4bKLFI4i+99FcNcm5bbvVM/ho22qOzrrOfGgTY6 CaEGpRbL1hN66zxdERGzhnI5zFy8P+OInS0axdFV0WBUVKyaqw1le1W1l1Qne7jM4A tCjJzhlYdNJxbqe+GnXgSAF/Tusk9iwEAEWHG8nT88tGzZ0hfvO1wZF+gzO/3PY5iM jNKRgcKmwRJjA== To: Mahesh Jethanandani , Jason Sterne Cc: "netmod@ietf.org" , "Rob Wilton (rwilton)" References: <20200327161318.ykrx2s36bhmaglxq@anna.jacobs.jacobs-university.de> <9c3ee87c0e9d14c8921796c4b53d44620b53a942.camel@nic.cz> <20200403165538.2lk4x5j32e3ctl4t@anna.jacobs.jacobs-university.de> <0a546588-6f87-3362-17da-37de8ea08956@cesnet.cz> <20200406074235.o6gkpjsim77xfzv7@anna.jacobs.jacobs-university.de> <010001715f8c4aa2-21fad32a-36d7-441e-bbb7-24e3aef1c229-000000@email.amazonses.com> <5319ca95-1f3a-33e6-aae3-cfd9861d59d7@cesnet.cz> <01000171a7fa898b-696030c8-0c3d-4e36-b2f1-49af349e1c0d-000000@email.amazonses.com> <73F9BE25-EE7E-4A99-B61D-3740BB850E35@gmail.com> From: Radek Krejci Autocrypt: addr=rkrejci@cesnet.cz; keydata= xsDiBEKfHd4RBADDE8CtJpEtOraXBKfQg0KCRZu7BRALixoLqW98U+N9h+PJ+gCnFaKNmnYu fXWLYKTJRUlaoMGIJOZjHpr/zvwozSR+VJkxCsTyNYTF8vIfN3Iwrxy9e8CNy/O1GI50K/ld WWMDl+3M2NztiBFPrCT0b/U5ErsN7bTrf2XLEQRpZwCg95POGbJPqPAaaok2KU5e2u0/flsD /AyC0aRO66Ci0OGw0R5sCJmzZ5xE5eBUvfx0N0IC16aojrwRYM5yf+bULtBDd4wPI1R+VH/X P6OrDgzlDmutJthVtYfCcho3IhqnVo1R/UvJxjF3ATKbOnVHL4xwiLSrRDb6rKVyd1+Kc7cq +JABgFl+JP4xndytvvUXdVqhuSUFBACCDdDtxutkclBrvEp2guBIftuT4/oK3IWxgtevlGfY LZXwdD6pIWS1z6y6xthoFTsLWS1QCFk2ZXmAgvOV/lnW0iGHwO5kCfzvWJq7weeH2FGuBgq+ WInxhdIFD/QwiXV6EPUWzAoC5Fx4Cz5ySFSd6n0C1Mrzin3ABtPHRpUT8s0pUmFkZWsgS3Jl amNpIChDRVNORVQpIDxya3JlamNpQGNlc25ldC5jej7CYgQTEQIAIgUCTT/pkAIbAwYLCQgH AwIGFQgCCQoLBBYCAwECHgECF4AACgkQIMoxClN+p/31DwCfWVWX1IWaUa6+QbuVvZQIkb6m Rn8AoLRvdANGe/As/Nxabu+KKtrorkQ6zsBNBEKfHeIQBACwORs231u+o9/pM7y85ZlZhnNY iJziZ4P5W9lD5cwcEUFgTt1upUmjjSMWr5x4HL6o5jZeKOQMxiYP+8qA8OPEM6fzemS1Uj9M 6RXUaoUZFrcKD6BvneyyKuGgNa9bQfTG0aDOqaxy4lYFNcHVeo9sXJ+6adVxlCo/GzZ6zznn nwADBQP+IZQoao7aCFkZOVk8F5AW9Iiz0hk1trdCw88vD5fPMqcLxOQEsKrHAjibTWyOy1il 9zgLyVjcBzOs+v6UvbcJRybyaITC7j4IFPr78euVup/AeL+A9ay+ZWKHMFzALD+VjLyYAiRL w2MBjdqAKbPh2Ei1HXJoOX5JTWWnMRsBey/CSQQYEQIACQUCQp8d4gIbDAAKCRAgyjEKU36n /YssAKDVrEroZMSci018ipG4q6w11TsriwCghwCwX0isavqXJTbw10hwJePlDns= Message-ID: Date: Tue, 28 Apr 2020 10:34:25 +0200 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; Linux x86_64; rv:68.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/68.7.0 MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: <73F9BE25-EE7E-4A99-B61D-3740BB850E35@gmail.com> Content-Type: multipart/signed; protocol="application/pkcs7-signature"; micalg=sha-256; boundary="------------ms000704020200090700090405" Archived-At: Subject: Re: [netmod] [Technical Errata Reported] RFC7950 (6031) X-BeenThere: netmod@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: NETMOD WG list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 28 Apr 2020 08:34:38 -0000 This is a cryptographically signed message in MIME format. --------------ms000704020200090700090405 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="------------9DFD156096DAF0F3DBF859A7" Content-Language: en-US This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --------------9DFD156096DAF0F3DBF859A7 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable +1 Thanks Kent and Rob for moving this forward, we should release libyang/yanglint with this change within 2 weeks. Regards, Radek Dne 27. 04. 20 v 19:30 Mahesh Jethanandani napsal(a): > +1. > >> On Apr 24, 2020, at 12:39 PM, Sterne, Jason (Nokia - CA/Ottawa) >> > wrote: >> >> That seems like a reasonable approach to me. >> Jason >> =C2=A0 >> *From:*=C2=A0netmod > >=C2=A0*On Behalf Of=C2=A0*Rob Wilton = (rwilton) >> *Sent:*=C2=A0Friday, April 24, 2020 3:34 PM >> *To:*=C2=A0Kent Watsen > >; netmod@ietf.org >> *Subject:*=C2=A0Re: [netmod] [Technical Errata Reported] RFC7950 (6031= ) >> =C2=A0 >> Hi Kent, >> =C2=A0 >> Thanks for creating the issue. >> =C2=A0 >> I think that errata falls under section 7 >> ofhttps://www.ietf.org/about/groups/iesg/statements/processing-rfc-err= ata/, >> and could be classified as =E2=80=9CHold for Document Update=E2=80=9D.= =C2=A0 I.e. =E2=80=9CChanges >> that modify the working of a protocol to something that might be >> different from the intended consensus when the document was approved >> should be either Hold for Document Update or Rejected. Deciding >> between these two depends on judgment. Changes that are clearly >> modifications to the intended consensus, or involve large textual >> changes, should be Rejected. In unclear situations, small changes can >> be Hold for Document Update.=E2=80=9D >> =C2=A0 >> I think that the consensus of the long term fix (e.g. in YANG 1.2) is >> that =E2=80=9Crequire-instance=E2=80=9D should be allowed under typede= fs that refined >> types that allow it. >> =C2=A0 >> Pragmatically, I think that we can mark this errata is a =E2=80=9CHold= for >> Document Update=E2=80=9D, with the accompanying errata notes (derived = from >> Radek=E2=80=99s comments) changed to: >> =C2=A0 >> =E2=80=9CThe document does not specify whether the =E2=80=9Crequire-in= stance=E2=80=9D keyword >> is allowed in typedef refinements derived from the =E2=80=9Cleafref=E2= =80=9D or >> =E2=80=9Cinstance-identifier=E2=80=9D base types, but it is anticipate= d that a future >> revision of YANG would allow this. =C2=A0=C2=A0It is suggested that mo= dules >> using YANG language versions 1 [RFC 6020] and 1.1 [RFC 7950] avoid >> using this construct, YANG module validation tools flag a warning if >> this construct is used, but implementations allow this if possible.=E2= =80=9D >> =C2=A0 >> Does anyone object to this course of action (or wishes to refine my >> errata notes)? >> =C2=A0 >> Regards, >> Rob >> =C2=A0 >> =C2=A0 >> *From:*=C2=A0Kent Watsen >=C2=A0 >> *Sent:*=C2=A023 April 2020 17:59 >> *To:*=C2=A0Andy Bierman > >> *Cc:*=C2=A0Radek Krejci >= ; >> Juergen Schoenwaelder > >; Martin Bj=C3=B6rklund >> >;=C2=A0netmod@ietf.org >> ; Rob Wilton (rwilton) > > >> *Subject:*=C2=A0Re: [netmod] [Technical Errata Reported] RFC7950 (6031= ) >> =C2=A0 >> The consensus seems to be that: >> =C2=A0 - the errata should be rejected >> =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 - Rob, do you agree? >> =C2=A0 - YANG-next should fix it later >> =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 - I created=C2=A0https://github.com/netmod= -wg/yang-next/issues/104 >> =C2=A0 - implementations should try to do the right thing now >> =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 - Radek=E2=80=99s suggestion below LGTM! >> =C2=A0 >> =C2=A0 >> Tallies: >> =C2=A0 =C2=A0- for reject: Andy, Martin, Juergen, and Kent=C2=A0 >> =C2=A0 =C2=A0- for accept: Radek, and Balazs >> =C2=A0 =C2=A0- unclear: Lada, Rob, and Jason >> =C2=A0 >> =C2=A0 >> Kent // as co-chair >> =C2=A0 >> >> =C2=A0 >> >> On Apr 14, 2020, at 10:35 AM, Andy Bierman > > wrote: >> =C2=A0 >> Hi, >> =C2=A0 >> I agree with Juergen that this errata should be rejected and the >> issue resolved in yang-next. >> No IETF module should use this construct. It is easy to convert >> to an equivalent form that is not under dispute. >> =C2=A0 >> =C2=A0 >> Andy >> =C2=A0 >> =C2=A0 >> On Tue, Apr 14, 2020 at 6:40 AM Radek Krejci > > wrote: >> >> Hi, >> >> Dne 09. 04. 20 v 17:26 Kent Watsen napsal(a): >> >> =C2=A0 >> >> =C2=A0 >> >> On Apr 6, 2020, at 3:42 AM, Juergen Schoenwaelder >> > > wrote: >> =C2=A0 >> >> The definition I found in RFC 8639 is this: >> >> =C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0leaf stream = { >> =C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0= type stream-ref { >> =C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0= =C2=A0=C2=A0require-instance false; >> =C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0= } >> =C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0= mandatory true; >> =C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0= description >> =C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0= =C2=A0=C2=A0"Indicates the event stream to be >> considered for >> =C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0= =C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0this subscription."; >> =C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0} >> >> This could be changed to: >> >> =C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0leaf stream = { >> =C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0= type leafref { >> =C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0path "/sn:streams/sn:stream/sn= :name"; >> =C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0= =C2=A0=C2=A0require-instance false; >> =C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0= } >> =C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0= mandatory true; >> =C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0= description >> =C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0= =C2=A0=C2=A0"Indicates the event stream to be >> considered for >> =C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0= =C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0this subscription."; >> =C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0} >> >> =C2=A0 >> I can confirm that `yanglint` validates the module >> cleanly after this change. >> =C2=A0 >> =C2=A0 >> =C2=A0 >> >> On Apr 6, 2020, at 7:38 AM, Martin Bj=C3=B6rklund >> > wrote: >> =C2=A0 >> I think the correct fix is to change the text so that >> "require-instance" is not classified as a restriction >> and keep the >> default. =C2=A0 >> >> =C2=A0 >> Agreed. >> =C2=A0 >> >> =C2=A0 >> >> Also, I think that it would be easiest (for backwards >> compatibility w/ existing models) to allow >> "require-inetance" to be >> changed in derived types. >> >> However, this cannot imo be done in an errata. >> >> =C2=A0 >> While I appreciate Radek and Michal=E2=80=99s perspective,= I also >> think that is would be best for the community for >> `yanglint` to support this, as they are published modules >> doing it. >> =C2=A0 >> >> >> I don't feel as an expert for IETF processes, so I don't know >> if this issue can be solved in errata or not (and I'm not >> sure there is a consensus on this in mailing list). For the >> implementation, I would appreciate at least a consensus on a >> solution. So far I saw opinions to allow it, to disallow and >> also to make it implementation-specific (which means in fact >> to disallow from the authors perspective, since there can be >> a tool disallowing it and we are saying that such a tool is >> ok). So, there is no clear way for implementors, which means >> problems for interoperability - there will be always someone >> unhappy and so far I don't know what is the major opinion to g= o.=C2=A0 >> >> So far, I tend to allow it (accept by libyang), but print >> warning to warn authors about possible problems (some tool >> can refuse such a module). Is it ok? >> >> Radek >> >> As an aside, I feel that all modules should be tested >> against all available validation tools during the >> publication process, but to find issues in the modules >> and well as possibly improve the tools. >> =C2=A0 >> Sadly, I only have `yanglint` and `yangson` available to >> me.=C2=A0 I just checked for the =E2=80=9Cyang validator=E2= =80=9D project, but >> both=C2=A0www.yangvalidator.com >> =C2=A0and=C2=A0https://www.= yangcatalog.org/yangvalidator=C2=A0seem >> to be down. >> =C2=A0 >> =C2=A0 >> Kent // contributor >> =C2=A0 >> >> =C2=A0 >> _______________________________________________ >> netmod mailing list >> netmod@ietf.org >> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/netmod >> >> =C2=A0 >> _______________________________________________ >> netmod mailing list >> netmod@ietf.org >> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/netmod > > > _______________________________________________ > netmod mailing list > netmod@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/netmod --------------9DFD156096DAF0F3DBF859A7 Content-Type: text/html; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable +1

Thanks Kent and Rob for moving this forward, we should release libyang/yanglint with this change within 2 weeks.

Regards,
Radek


Dne 27. 04. 20 v 19:30 Mahesh Jethanandani napsal(a):
+1.

On Apr 24, 2020, at 12:39 PM, Sterne, Jason (Nokia - CA/Ottawa) <jason.sterne@nokia.com> wrote:

That seems like a reasonable approach to me.=
Jason
=C2=A0
From:<= /span>=C2=A0ne= tmod <netmod-boun= ces@ietf.org>=C2=A0On Behalf Of=C2=A0= Rob Wilton (rwilton)
Sent:=C2=A0Fr= iday, April 24, 2020 3:34 PM
To:=C2=A0Ke= nt Watsen <kent+ietf@w= atsen.net>; netmod@ietf.org Subject:=C2=A0Re= : [netmod] [Technical Errata Reported] RFC7950 (6031)
=C2=A0
Hi Kent,
=C2=A0
Thanks for creating the iss= ue.
=C2=A0
I think that errata falls under section 7 ofhttps://www.iet= f.org/about/groups/iesg/statements/processing-rfc-errata/, and could be classified as =E2=80=9CHold for Document= Update=E2=80=9D.=C2=A0 I.e. =E2=80=9CChanges that modify the working of a protocol to something that might be different from the intended consensus when the document was approved should be either Hold for Document Update or Rejected. Deciding between these two depends on judgment. Changes that are clearly modifications to the intended consensus, or involve large textual changes, should be Rejected. In unclear situations, small changes can be Hold for Document Update.=E2=80=9D
=C2=A0
I think that the consensus = of the long term fix (e.g. in YANG 1.2) is that =E2=80=9Crequire-instance=E2=80=9D should be allowed = under typedefs that refined types that allow it.
=C2=A0
Pragmatically, I think that= we can mark this errata is a =E2=80=9CHold for Document Update=E2=80=9D, with the accompanying errata notes (= derived from Radek=E2=80=99s comments) changed to:
=C2=A0
=E2=80=9CThe document does = not specify whether the =E2=80=9Crequire-instance=E2=80=9D keywor= d is allowed in typedef refinements derived from the =E2=80=9Cleafref= =E2=80=9D or =E2=80=9Cinstance-identifier=E2=80=9D base types, but= it is anticipated that a future revision of YANG would allow this. =C2=A0=C2=A0It is suggested that modules = using YANG language versions 1 [RFC 6020] and 1.1 [RFC 7950] avoid using this construct, YANG module validation tools flag a warning if this construct is used, but implementations allow this if possible.=E2=80= =9D
=C2=A0
Does anyone object to this course of action (or wishes to refine my errata notes)?
=C2=A0
Regards,
Rob
=C2=A0
=C2=A0
From:=C2=A0= Kent Watsen <kent+ietf@watsen.net>=C2=A0=
Sent:=C2=A0= 23 April 2020 17:59
To:=C2=A0= Andy Bierman <andy@yumaworks.com>
Cc:=C2=A0= Radek Krejci <rkrejci@cesnet.cz>; Juergen Schoenwaelder <j.schoenwaelder@jacobs-university.de>; Martin Bj=C3=B6rklund <mbj+ietf@= 4668.se>;=C2=A0= netmod@ie= tf.org; Rob Wilton (rwilton) <rwilton@cisco.com>
Subject:=C2=A0= Re: [netmod] [Technical Errata Reported] RFC7950 (6031)
=C2=A0
The consensus seems to be= that:
=C2=A0 - the errata sho= uld be rejected
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2= =A0 - Rob, do you agree?
=C2=A0 - YANG-next shou= ld fix it later
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2= =A0 - I created=C2=A0https://github.com/netmod-wg/yang-next/issues/104
=C2=A0 - implementation= s should try to do the right thing now
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2= =A0 - Radek=E2=80=99s suggestion below LGTM!
=C2=A0
=C2=A0
Tallie= s:
=C2=A0= =C2=A0- for reject: Andy, Martin, Juergen, and Kent=C2=A0
=C2=A0= =C2=A0- for accept: Radek, and Balazs
=C2=A0= =C2=A0- unclear: Lada, Rob, and Jason=
=C2=A0
=C2=A0
Kent= // as co-chair
=C2=A0

= =C2=A0

On Apr 14, 2020, at 10:3= 5 AM, Andy Bierman <a= ndy@yumaworks.com> wrote:
=C2=A0
Hi,
=C2=A0
I agree w= ith Juergen that this errata should be rejected and the issue resolved in yang-next.
No IETF module should use this construct. It is easy to convert to an equivalent form that is not under dispute.
=C2=A0
=C2=A0
Andy
=C2=A0
=C2=A0
On Tue, A= pr 14, 2020 at 6:40 AM Radek Krejci <rkrejci@cesnet.cz> wrote:=
=

= Hi,

Dne 0= 9. 04. 20 v 17:26 Kent Watsen napsal(a):
=C2=A0

=C2=A0

On Apr 6, 2020, at 3:42 AM, Juergen Schoenwaelder <j.schoenwaelder@jacobs-university.de> wrote:
<= o:p class=3D"">=C2=A0

The definition I found in RFC 8639 is this:

=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2= =A0=C2=A0=C2=A0leaf stream {
=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2= =A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0type stream-ref {
=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0require= -instance false;
=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2= =A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0}
=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2= =A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0mandatory true;
=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2= =A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0description
=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2= =A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0"Indicates the event stream to be considered for
=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2= =A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0this subscription.";
=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2= =A0=C2=A0=C2=A0}

This could be changed to:

=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2= =A0=C2=A0=C2=A0leaf stream {
=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2= =A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0type leafref {
=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0p= ath "/sn:streams/sn:stream/sn= :name";
=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0require= -instance false;
=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2= =A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0}
=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2= =A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0mandatory true;
=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2= =A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0description
=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2= =A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0"Indicates the event stream to be considered for
=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2= =A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0this subscription.";
=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2= =A0=C2=A0=C2=A0}

=C2=A0
I c= an confirm that `yanglint` validates the module cleanly after this change.
=C2=A0
=C2=A0
=C2=A0
On Apr 6, 2020, at 7:38 AM, Martin Bj=C3=B6rklund <= ;mbj+ietf@4668.se> wrote:
<= o:p class=3D"">=C2=A0
I think the correct fix is to change the text so that
"require-instance" is not classified as a restriction and keep the<= br class=3D""> default. =C2=A0
<= o:p class=3D"">=C2=A0
A= greed.<= /div>
<= o:p class=3D"">=C2=A0

=C2=A0

Also, I think that it would be easiest (for backwards compatibility w/ existing models) to allow "require-inetance" to be
changed in derived types.

However, this cannot imo be done in an errata.
=C2=A0
W= hile I appreciate Radek and Michal=E2=80=99s perspectiv= e, I also think that is would be best for the community for `yanglint` to support this, as they are published modules doing it.
=C2=A0

=
I don't feel as an expert for IETF processes, so I don't know if this issue can be solved in errata or not (and I'm not sure there is a consensus on this in mailing list). For the implementation, I would appreciate at least a consensus on a solution. So far I saw opinions to allow it, to disallow and also to make it implementation-specific (which means in fact to disallow from the authors perspective, since there can be a tool disallowing it and we are saying that such a tool is ok). So, there is no clear way for implementors, which means problems for interoperability - there will be always someone unhappy and so far I don't know what is the major opinion to go.=C2=A0

So far, I tend to allow it (accept by libyang), but print warning to warn authors about possible problems (some tool can refuse such a module). Is it ok?<= br class=3D"">
Radek

=
As = an aside, I feel that all modules should be tested against all available validation tools during the publication process, but to find issues in the modules and well as possibly improve the tools.
=C2=A0
Sad= ly, I only have `yanglint` and `yangson` available to me.=C2= =A0 I just checked for the =E2=80= =9Cyang validator=E2=80=9D project, b= ut both=C2=A0ww= w.yangvalidator.com=C2=A0and=C2=A0ht= tps://www.yangcatalog.org/yangvalidator=C2=A0seem to be down.
=C2=A0
=C2=A0
Ken= t // contributor
=C2=A0
=C2= =A0
_________= ______________________________________
netmod mailing list
netmod@i= etf.org
https://= www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/netmod
=C2=A0
___________________________________= ____________
netmod mailing list
netmod@ietf.org
https://www.ietf.org/= mailman/listinfo/netmod


____________________________=
___________________
netmod mailing list
net=
mod@ietf.org
https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/netmod

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X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-Network-Message-Id: 90127030-f445-410b-f76d-08d7eb67fa0f X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-originalarrivaltime: 28 Apr 2020 11:33:30.5333 (UTC) X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-fromentityheader: Hosted X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-id: 5ae1af62-9505-4097-a69a-c1553ef7840e X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-mailboxtype: HOSTED X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-userprincipalname: N6BVTyt3Xfx+eQ7Ea8Sc9+Wvb7ufsvGKGCm2yUmJ0wndUBo4IaHbycstQYwyWg4K/v8MVLjT3VbIXbXHT5EAJA== X-MS-Exchange-Transport-CrossTenantHeadersStamped: MN2PR11MB4680 X-OriginatorOrg: cisco.com X-Outbound-SMTP-Client: 173.37.102.11, xch-rcd-001.cisco.com X-Outbound-Node: alln-core-3.cisco.com Archived-At: Subject: [netmod] Erratum 5514 on NMDA [RFC 8342] X-BeenThere: netmod@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: NETMOD WG list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 28 Apr 2020 11:33:36 -0000 Hi, There is one open erratum on NMDA from 2018 that I would like to process. The erratum is here: https://www.rfc-editor.org/errata/eid5514 There has been quite a lot of discussion on this erratum previously on the = NETMOD alias. The last email in the thread was https://mailarchive.ietf.or= g/arch/msg/netmod/LHJZmf5gtESX6Nobwst0OwXbGG4/ >From my reading of the discussion, I don't think that there is clear WG con= sensus between the two competing concerns: (1) The origin for any top-level configuration data nodes must be specified= (section 7, YANG annotation definition). (2) The origin applies to all configuration nodes except non-presence conta= iners (section 5.3.4). Hence my proposal is to mark this as "Hold for Document Update" with Kent's= proposed resolution of changing the description in the YANG model. OLD: The origin for any top-level configuration data nodes must be specified= . NEW: The origin for any top-level configuration data nodes, except non-presence containers, must be specified. For reference, this will mean that the extension [NEW] is defined as: md:annotation origin { type origin-ref; description "The 'origin' annotation can be present on any configuration data node in the operational state datastore. It specifies from where the node originated. If not specified for a given configuration data node, then the origin is the same as the origin of its parent node in the data tree. The origin for any top-level configuration data nodes, except non-presence containers, must be specified."; } Please can you let me know if you support or object to this resolution. I'= ll leave it a week to see if there is consensus before processing the errat= um. Regards, Rob From nobody Tue Apr 28 08:25:32 2020 Return-Path: X-Original-To: netmod@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: netmod@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1B23E3A1697 for ; Tue, 28 Apr 2020 08:25:31 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -0.101 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-0.101 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_EF=-0.1, PDS_NAKED_TO_NUMERO=1.999, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=no autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=4668.se header.b=srQl9Gl5; dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=messagingengine.com header.b=ZNmSqBtI Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id BceAFdLt3_iR for ; Tue, 28 Apr 2020 08:25:29 -0700 (PDT) Received: from wout4-smtp.messagingengine.com (wout4-smtp.messagingengine.com [64.147.123.20]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher AECDH-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 674843A0C7A for ; 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Tue, 28 Apr 2020 11:25:27 -0400 (EDT) Date: Tue, 28 Apr 2020 17:25:25 +0200 (CEST) Message-Id: <20200428.172525.1945206880513527024.id@4668.se> To: rrahman=40cisco.com@dmarc.ietf.org Cc: netmod@ietf.org From: Martin =?iso-8859-1?Q?Bj=F6rklund?= In-Reply-To: <6D4B643D-3264-4B00-A993-A140F5C54F30@cisco.com> References: <6D4B643D-3264-4B00-A993-A140F5C54F30@cisco.com> X-Mailer: Mew version 6.8 on Emacs 25.2 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: Text/Plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 Archived-At: Subject: Re: [netmod] yang-module-versioning: revision-label scheme X-BeenThere: netmod@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: NETMOD WG list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 28 Apr 2020 15:25:31 -0000 SGksDQoNCiJSZXNoYWQgUmFobWFuIFwocnJhaG1hblwpIiA8cnJhaG1hbj00MGNpc2NvLmNvbUBk bWFyYy5pZXRmLm9yZz4gd3JvdGU6DQo+IEhpLA0KPiANCj4gVGhlcmUgd2FzIGENCj4gZGlzY3Vz c2lvbjxodHRwczovL21haWxhcmNoaXZlLmlldGYub3JnL2FyY2gvYnJvd3NlL25ldG1vZC8/cT0l MjJJbnRlcnByZXRpbmclMjByZXZpc2lvbiUyMGxhYmVscyUyMGFzJTIwWUFORyUyMHNlbWFudGlj JTIwdmVyc2lvbiUyMG51bWJlcnMlMjI+DQo+IG9uIHRoZSBuZWVkIHRvIGhhdmUgYW4gZXh0ZW5z aW9uIHdoaWNoIHNwZWNpZmllcyB3aGljaCB2ZXJzaW9uaW5nDQo+IHNjaGVtZSBhIG1vZHVsZSBp cyB1c2luZy4NCj4gDQo+IFRoZSBhdXRob3JzIGhhdmUgaWRlbnRpZmllZCAyIG9wdGlvbnM6DQo+ IA0KPiAgIDEuICBPbmUgZXh0ZW5zaW9uIHN0YXRlbWVudCB3aXRoIGEgcGFyYW1ldGVyIHdoaWNo IHNwZWNpZmllcyB0aGUNCj4gICBzY2hlbWUgYmVpbmcgdXNlZC4NCg0KT2ssIEkgdW5kZXJzdGFu ZCB3aGF0IHRoaXMgbWVhbnMuLi4NCg0KPiAgIEUuZy4gcmV2aXNpb24tbGFiZWwtc2NoZW1hKGll dGYteWFuZy1zZW12ZXIpLA0KPiAgIHJldmlzaW9uLWxhYmVsLXNjaGVtYShzZG9YLXlhbmcpLg0K DQouLi4gYnV0IEkgZG9uJ3QgdW5kZXJzdGFuZCB0aGVzZSBleGFtcGxlcy4gICBJIGV4cGVjdGVk IHNvbWV0aGluZw0KbGlrZToNCg0KICAgIHJldjpyZXZpc2lvbi1sYWJlbC1zY2hlbWEgeWFuZy1z ZW12ZXI7DQoNCiAgICByZXY6cmV2aXNpb24tbGFiZWwtc2NoZW1hIHNlbXZlci0yLjA7DQoNCj4g ICBXZeKAmWQgbmVlZCB0aGUgcGFyYW1ldGVyIHRvIGJlDQo+ICAgcmVnaXN0ZXJlZCB3aXRoIElB TkEuDQoNCkFuIGFsdGVybmF0aXZlIGNvdWxkIGJlIHRvIHVzZSBpZGVudGl0aWVzOg0KDQogICAg cmV2OnJldmlzaW9uLWxhYmVsLXNjaGVtYSB5c21ldmVyOnlhbmctc2VtdmVyOw0KDQogICAgcmV2 OnJldmlzaW9uLWxhYmVsLXNjaGVtYSBleDpzZW12ZXItMi4wOw0KDQoNCj4gICAyLiAgT25lIGV4 dGVuc2lvbiBzdGF0ZW1lbnQgcGVyDQo+ICAgcmV2aXNpb24tc2NoZW1lLiBFLmcuIHJldmlzaW9u LWxhYmVsLXNjaGVtZS1pZXRmLXlhbmctc2VtdmVyLA0KPiAgIHJldmlzaW9uLWxhYmVsLXNjaGVt ZS1zZG9YLXlhbmcuDQoNCkkgcHJlZmVyIGEgc2luZ2xlIHN0YXRlbWVudC4NCg0KDQo+IFRoZSBh dXRob3JzIGhhdmUgYSBwcmVmZXJlbmNlIGZvciBvcHRpb24gMSwgd2UgYmVsaWV2ZSBpdCBtYWtl cyB0aGluZ3MNCj4gc2ltcGxlci4gV2Ugd291bGQgbGlrZSB0byBoZWFyIGZyb20gdGhlIFdHIGlm IHRoZXJl4oCZcyBhbnkgY29uY2VybnMsDQo+IHN1Z2dlc3Rpb25zIGV0Yy4NCg0KDQovbWFydGlu DQo= From nobody Tue Apr 28 08:47:15 2020 Return-Path: X-Original-To: netmod@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: netmod@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id D8AAD3A003E for ; 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Tue, 28 Apr 2020 11:47:06 -0400 (EDT) Date: Tue, 28 Apr 2020 17:47:04 +0200 (CEST) Message-Id: <20200428.174704.345355760339835105.id@4668.se> To: rwilton=40cisco.com@dmarc.ietf.org Cc: netmod@ietf.org From: Martin =?iso-8859-1?Q?Bj=F6rklund?= In-Reply-To: References: X-Mailer: Mew version 6.8 on Emacs 25.2 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: Text/Plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Archived-At: Subject: Re: [netmod] Erratum 5514 on NMDA [RFC 8342] X-BeenThere: netmod@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: NETMOD WG list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 28 Apr 2020 15:47:10 -0000 "Rob Wilton \(rwilton\)" wrote: > Hi, > > There is one open erratum on NMDA from 2018 that I would like to > process. > > The erratum is here: https://www.rfc-editor.org/errata/eid5514 > > There has been quite a lot of discussion on this erratum previously on > the NETMOD alias. The last email in the thread was > https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/netmod/LHJZmf5gtESX6Nobwst0OwXbGG4/ > > >From my reading of the discussion, I don't think that there is clear > >WG consensus between the two competing concerns: > (1) The origin for any top-level configuration data nodes must be > specified (section 7, YANG annotation definition). > (2) The origin applies to all configuration nodes except non-presence > containers (section 5.3.4). > > Hence my proposal is to mark this as "Hold for Document Update" with > Kent's proposed resolution of changing the description in the YANG > model. > > OLD: > The origin for any top-level configuration data nodes must be > specified. > > NEW: > The origin for any top-level configuration data nodes, except > non-presence containers, must be specified. > > For reference, this will mean that the extension [NEW] is defined as: > > md:annotation origin { > type origin-ref; > description > "The 'origin' annotation can be present on any configuration > data node in the operational state datastore. It specifies > from where the node originated. If not specified for a given > configuration data node, then the origin is the same as the > origin of its parent node in the data tree. The origin for > any top-level configuration data nodes, except non-presence > containers, must be specified."; > } > > Please can you let me know if you support or object to this > resolution. I'll leave it a week to see if there is consensus before > processing the erratum. 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Tue, 28 Apr 2020 16:01:41 +0000 X-Originating-IP: [2001:638:709:5::7] X-MS-PublicTrafficType: Email X-MS-Office365-Filtering-Correlation-Id: e214c7ec-5d7c-42e0-e7fb-08d7eb8d70c3 X-MS-TrafficTypeDiagnostic: AM0P190MB0579: X-MS-Exchange-Transport-Forked: True X-Microsoft-Antispam-PRVS: X-MS-Oob-TLC-OOBClassifiers: OLM:10000; X-Forefront-PRVS: 0387D64A71 X-Forefront-Antispam-Report: CIP:255.255.255.255; CTRY:; LANG:en; SCL:1; SRV:; IPV:NLI; SFV:NSPM; H:AM0P190MB0707.EURP190.PROD.OUTLOOK.COM; PTR:; CAT:NONE; SFTY:; SFS:(366004)(8676002)(966005)(4326008)(1076003)(16526019)(186003)(66556008)(2906002)(83080400001)(5660300002)(66946007)(66476007)(6496006)(6486002)(498600001)(3450700001)(81156014)(52116002)(86362001)(8936002); DIR:OUT; SFP:1101; X-MS-Exchange-SenderADCheck: 1 X-Microsoft-Antispam: BCL:0; X-Microsoft-Antispam-Message-Info: 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 X-MS-Exchange-AntiSpam-MessageData: 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 X-OriginatorOrg: jacobs-university.de X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-Network-Message-Id: e214c7ec-5d7c-42e0-e7fb-08d7eb8d70c3 X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-OriginalArrivalTime: 28 Apr 2020 16:01:41.2102 (UTC) X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-FromEntityHeader: Hosted X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-Id: f78e973e-5c0b-4ab8-bbd7-9887c95a8ebd X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-MailboxType: HOSTED X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-UserPrincipalName: ZTKyRX9MBjDxljJUcqOYPsFbMMztq2A+5vWFsv1ZC1SlISIIbK5Da/pSE0jVAZFjDtYT03ZwQ+9zu+pDjoI5MqNeVR0aXpSIv2JoqfoX3gw= X-MS-Exchange-Transport-CrossTenantHeadersStamped: AM0P190MB0579 Archived-At: Subject: Re: [netmod] yang-module-versioning: revision-label scheme X-BeenThere: netmod@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: NETMOD WG list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 28 Apr 2020 16:01:47 -0000 I may be naive and not understand things correctly but an open ended set of versioning schemes scares me. I do not see how this leads to interoperability. Perhaps all the versioning work should be experimental until we know what the winning solution is? First semver was the solution, then we got semver plus extensions, and now we move full speed ahead to support an open ended number of versioning schemes? /js (who probably should have kept silent) On Mon, Apr 27, 2020 at 03:42:04PM +0000, Reshad Rahman (rrahman) wrote: > Hi, > > There was a discussion on the need to have an extension which specifies which versioning scheme a module is using. > > The authors have identified 2 options: > > 1. One extension statement with a parameter which specifies the scheme being used. E.g. revision-label-schema(ietf-yang-semver), revision-label-schema(sdoX-yang). We’d need the parameter to be registered with IANA. > 2. One extension statement per revision-scheme. E.g. revision-label-scheme-ietf-yang-semver, revision-label-scheme-sdoX-yang. > > The authors have a preference for option 1, we believe it makes things simpler. We would like to hear from the WG if there’s any concerns, suggestions etc. > > Regards, > Reshad. > _______________________________________________ > netmod mailing list > netmod@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/netmod -- Juergen Schoenwaelder Jacobs University Bremen gGmbH Phone: +49 421 200 3587 Campus Ring 1 | 28759 Bremen | Germany Fax: +49 421 200 3103 From nobody Tue Apr 28 09:19:50 2020 Return-Path: X-Original-To: netmod@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: netmod@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 103AE3A089F for ; Tue, 28 Apr 2020 09:19:48 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -9.6 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-9.6 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_EF=-0.1, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001, USER_IN_DEF_DKIM_WL=-7.5] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no 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15.20.2937.028; Thu, 30 Apr 2020 15:05:54 +0000 From: "Sterne, Jason (Nokia - CA/Ottawa)" To: "netmod@ietf.org" Thread-Topic: YANG action not allowed at root? 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X-BeenThere: netmod@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: NETMOD WG list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 30 Apr 2020 15:06:12 -0000 --_000_DM5PR08MB2633E256786622A19B51AD769BAA0DM5PR08MB2633namp_ Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hi all, I was a bit surprised to find this in section 7.15 of 7950 recently: Since an action cannot be defined at the top level of a module or in a "case" statement, it is an error if a grouping that contains an action at the top of its node hierarchy is used at the top level of a module or in a case definition. I realize that actions can be placed down in a schema tree (i.e. sit in the= context of a container or list), but why is it phrased that they *must* be= in a container? RPCs are limited to being at the root. I would have thought actions could b= e anywhere (root or down in the tree). Jason --_000_DM5PR08MB2633E256786622A19B51AD769BAA0DM5PR08MB2633namp_ Content-Type: text/html; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

Hi all,

 

I was a bit surprised to find this in section 7.15 o= f 7950 recently:

 

   Since an action ca= nnot be defined at the top level of a module or in

   a "case"= statement, it is an error if a grouping that contains an=

   action at the top = of its node hierarchy is used at the top level of a

   module or in a cas= e definition.

 

I realize that actions can be placed down in a schem= a tree (i.e. sit in the context of a container or list), but why is it phra= sed that they *must* be in a container?

 

RPCs are limited to being at the root. I would have = thought actions could be anywhere (root or down in the tree).

 

Jason

 

 

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Thu, 30 Apr 2020 15:31:00 +0000 From: "Reshad Rahman (rrahman)" To: "Sterne, Jason (Nokia - CA/Ottawa)" , "netmod@ietf.org" Thread-Topic: [netmod] YANG action not allowed at root? 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