Return-Path: X-Original-To: nmrg@ibr.cs.tu-bs.de Delivered-To: nmrg@ibr.cs.tu-bs.de Received: from hermes.jacobs-university.de (hermes.jacobs-university.de [212.201.44.23]) by salvator.ibr.cs.tu-bs.de (Postfix) with ESMTP id 87675142A1 for ; Thu, 28 Jan 2010 08:34:54 +0100 (CET) Received: from localhost (demetrius4.jacobs-university.de [212.201.44.49]) by hermes.jacobs-university.de (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4EB57C0041; Thu, 28 Jan 2010 08:34:54 +0100 (CET) Received: from hermes.jacobs-university.de ([212.201.44.23]) by localhost (demetrius4.jacobs-university.de [212.201.44.32]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id ETOaxt6pfM84; Thu, 28 Jan 2010 08:34:52 +0100 (CET) Received: from elstar.local (elstar.iuhb02.iu-bremen.de [10.50.231.133]) by hermes.jacobs-university.de (Postfix) with ESMTP id A8EA7C0040; Thu, 28 Jan 2010 08:34:52 +0100 (CET) Received: by elstar.local (Postfix, from userid 501) id CDB04101F1CE; Thu, 28 Jan 2010 08:34:42 +0100 (CET) Date: Thu, 28 Jan 2010 08:34:42 +0100 From: Juergen Schoenwaelder To: "G. Clark" Message-ID: <20100128073442.GA92773@elstar.local> Mail-Followup-To: "G. Clark" , "nmrg@ibr.cs.tu-bs.de" , "kfall@cs.berkeley.edu" , "Stephen.Farrell@cs.tcd.ie" References: <20100127095426.GB89790@elstar.local> <4B607439.1000201@ohio.edu> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <4B607439.1000201@ohio.edu> User-Agent: Mutt/1.5.20 (2009-06-14) X-Virus-Scanned: clamav-milter 0.95.3 at salvator X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Spam-Status: No, score=1.3 required=5.0 tests=BAYES_00,HELO_LOCALHOST, UNPARSEABLE_RELAY autolearn=no version=3.2.5 X-Spam-Level: * X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.2.5 (2008-06-10) on salvator.ibr.cs.tu-bs.de Cc: "nmrg@ibr.cs.tu-bs.de" , "kfall@cs.berkeley.edu" , "Stephen.Farrell@cs.tcd.ie" Subject: Re: [nmrg] [Internet-Drafts@ietf.org: I-D Action:draft-irtf-dtnrg-ding-network-management-00.txt] X-BeenThere: nmrg@ibr.cs.tu-bs.de X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.11 Precedence: list Reply-To: Juergen Schoenwaelder List-Id: Network Management Research Group List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 28 Jan 2010 07:34:58 -0000 On Wed, Jan 27, 2010 at 06:13:29PM +0100, G. Clark wrote: > One of the things Ohio U. has been experimenting with recently is > network management / monitoring in delay / disruption tolerant > networks. We have found that SNMP does not seem to work well in > environments where there is a significant amount of delay and / or loss, > but works very well on most terrestrial networks. To address this, we > decided to construct a proxy that sits between a terrestrial network and > a DTN. It uses DING to gather information from nodes in the DTN and > populate a cache. The proxy then uses this cache to answer SNMP GETs > from the terrestrial network. This reply contains the most recent > information available relating to the host specified in the query. > > This RFC describes the protocol that the gateway and the DTN nodes use > to communicate. > > DING itself relies exclusively on scheduled updates for communication. > Once a schema is sent, the remote node will send network information to > the proxy at scheduled intervals until A) a request to remove the schema > is received or B) a request to modify the schema's schedule is received. > > Note that the scheduling mechanism is not described in the current > version of the RFC. At the moment, the schedule is sent as a part of > the schema, although this has some large disadvantages associated with > it (e.g. to update a schedule, a schema must be completely replaced). > Thus, this is likely to change in the near future. The document needs to first describe the basic idea - this was completely lacking. I am also confused by the terminology - the term "schema" is usually used for static data model definitions and not for dynamic subscriptions - since I believe this is what your model is: An SNMP agent that creats a subscribtion to receive updates from the instrumentation, in your case residing on a long delay path. Note that the 6lowapp people discuss very similar designs, although for very different reasons. Perhaps it is useful to at least monitor what they are working on. > This document is indeed a work in progress; feedback would be appreciated. Once you have a more complete document, feel free to use this list to solicit review and feedback. /js -- Juergen Schoenwaelder Jacobs University Bremen gGmbH Phone: +49 421 200 3587 Campus Ring 1, 28759 Bremen, Germany Fax: +49 421 200 3103 Return-Path: X-Original-To: nmrg@ibr.cs.tu-bs.de Delivered-To: nmrg@ibr.cs.tu-bs.de Received: from mx2.oit.ohio.edu (mx2.oit.ohio.edu [132.235.51.19]) by salvator.ibr.cs.tu-bs.de (Postfix) with ESMTP id 21CA31423F for ; Wed, 27 Jan 2010 18:15:06 +0100 (CET) X-IronPort-Anti-Spam-Filtered: true X-IronPort-Anti-Spam-Result: ApoEAK4DYEuE6wiX/2dsb2JhbADMLw6FCIgbhDkEjWo X-IronPort-AV: E=Sophos;i="4.49,355,1262581200"; d="scan'208";a="27810149" Received: from oak3a.cats.ohiou.edu (HELO oak.cats.ohiou.edu) ([132.235.8.151]) by smtpout2.oit.ohio.edu with ESMTP; 27 Jan 2010 12:15:05 -0500 Received: from [10.1.42.187] (cpe-75-180-9-158.columbus.res.rr.com [75.180.9.158]) (authenticated bits=0) by oak.cats.ohiou.edu (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id o0RHDUtH1895869 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO); Wed, 27 Jan 2010 12:13:42 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <4B607439.1000201@ohio.edu> Date: Wed, 27 Jan 2010 12:13:29 -0500 From: "G. Clark" User-Agent: Thunderbird 2.0.0.23 (Windows/20090812) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: nmrg@ibr.cs.tu-bs.de, kfall@cs.berkeley.edu, Stephen.Farrell@cs.tcd.ie, gc355804@ohio.edu References: <20100127095426.GB89790@elstar.local> In-Reply-To: <20100127095426.GB89790@elstar.local> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Virus-Scanned: clamav-milter 0.95.3 at salvator X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.6 required=5.0 tests=BAYES_00,UNPARSEABLE_RELAY autolearn=ham version=3.2.5 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.2.5 (2008-06-10) on salvator.ibr.cs.tu-bs.de X-Mailman-Approved-At: Thu, 28 Jan 2010 08:26:55 +0100 Subject: Re: [nmrg] [Internet-Drafts@ietf.org: I-D Action:draft-irtf-dtnrg-ding-network-management-00.txt] X-BeenThere: nmrg@ibr.cs.tu-bs.de X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.11 Precedence: list List-Id: Network Management Research Group List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 27 Jan 2010 17:15:10 -0000 Hi: First of all, I have to apologize to the dtnrg folks: I intended to post this document to the DTNRG working group, but instead it was announced as an independent submission. I am working to correct this. In any case, I thought it might be a good idea to provide some background for this document. One of the things Ohio U. has been experimenting with recently is network management / monitoring in delay / disruption tolerant networks. We have found that SNMP does not seem to work well in environments where there is a significant amount of delay and / or loss, but works very well on most terrestrial networks. To address this, we decided to construct a proxy that sits between a terrestrial network and a DTN. It uses DING to gather information from nodes in the DTN and populate a cache. The proxy then uses this cache to answer SNMP GETs from the terrestrial network. This reply contains the most recent information available relating to the host specified in the query. This RFC describes the protocol that the gateway and the DTN nodes use to communicate. DING itself relies exclusively on scheduled updates for communication. Once a schema is sent, the remote node will send network information to the proxy at scheduled intervals until A) a request to remove the schema is received or B) a request to modify the schema's schedule is received. Note that the scheduling mechanism is not described in the current version of the RFC. At the moment, the schedule is sent as a part of the schema, although this has some large disadvantages associated with it (e.g. to update a schedule, a schema must be completely replaced). Thus, this is likely to change in the near future. This document is indeed a work in progress; feedback would be appreciated. Thanks, Gilbert Clark Grad Student Juergen Schoenwaelder wrote: > Hi, > > there apparently is work going on in the Detlay Tolerant Network > Research Group (DTNGR) that touches on topics where this group has > some experience - there was work on SNMP payload compression about 10 > years ago here and in the EOS IETF WG. This ID still seems to be early > work in the sense that I did not fully understand what the end goal of > this work will be. Anyway, people might be interested to take a look > or even contribute. > > /js > > ----- Forwarded message from "Internet-Drafts@ietf.org" ----- > > Date: Wed, 27 Jan 2010 05:15:02 +0100 > From: "Internet-Drafts@ietf.org" > To: "i-d-announce@ietf.org" > Subject: I-D Action:draft-irtf-dtnrg-ding-network-management-00.txt > Message-ID: <20100127041502.8504428C0E8@core3.amsl.com> > > A New Internet-Draft is available from the on-line Internet-Drafts directories. > > Title : DING Protocol -- A Protocol For Network Management > Author(s) : G. Clark > Filename : draft-irtf-dtnrg-ding-network-management-00.txt > Pages : 11 > Date : 2010-01-26 > > This memo describes the DING (Diagnostic Interplanetary Network > Gateway) protocol, which is a network management protocol designed > for use in delay and disruption tolerant networks (DTNs). The > protocol is designed to eliminate some of the overhead involved with > using SNMP to manage hosts on a DTN. > > A URL for this Internet-Draft is: > http://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-irtf-dtnrg-ding-network-management-00.txt > > Internet-Drafts are also available by anonymous FTP at: > ftp://ftp.ietf.org/internet-drafts/ > > Below is the data which will enable a MIME compliant mail reader > implementation to automatically retrieve the ASCII version of the > Internet-Draft. > > > _______________________________________________ > I-D-Announce mailing list > I-D-Announce@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/i-d-announce > Internet-Draft directories: http://www.ietf.org/shadow.html > or ftp://ftp.ietf.org/ietf/1shadow-sites.txt > > > ----- End forwarded message ----- > > Return-Path: X-Original-To: nmrg@ibr.cs.tu-bs.de Delivered-To: nmrg@ibr.cs.tu-bs.de Received: from hermes.jacobs-university.de (hermes.jacobs-university.de [212.201.44.23]) by salvator.ibr.cs.tu-bs.de (Postfix) with ESMTP id 630FE143D9 for ; Wed, 27 Jan 2010 10:54:38 +0100 (CET) Received: from localhost (demetrius2.jacobs-university.de [212.201.44.47]) by hermes.jacobs-university.de (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3DBB7C0040; Wed, 27 Jan 2010 10:54:38 +0100 (CET) Received: from hermes.jacobs-university.de ([212.201.44.23]) by localhost (demetrius2.jacobs-university.de [212.201.44.32]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id K8BI2FgpTvpk; Wed, 27 Jan 2010 10:54:37 +0100 (CET) Received: from elstar.local (elstar.iuhb02.iu-bremen.de [10.50.231.133]) by hermes.jacobs-university.de (Postfix) with ESMTP id 34202C0007; Wed, 27 Jan 2010 10:54:36 +0100 (CET) Received: by elstar.local (Postfix, from userid 501) id 4CE71101CB69; Wed, 27 Jan 2010 10:54:26 +0100 (CET) Date: Wed, 27 Jan 2010 10:54:26 +0100 From: Juergen Schoenwaelder To: nmrg@ibr.cs.tu-bs.de Message-ID: <20100127095426.GB89790@elstar.local> Mail-Followup-To: nmrg@ibr.cs.tu-bs.de, kfall@cs.berkeley.edu, Stephen.Farrell@cs.tcd.ie, gc355804@ohio.edu MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline User-Agent: Mutt/1.5.20 (2009-06-14) X-Virus-Scanned: clamav-milter 0.95.3 at salvator X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Spam-Status: No, score=1.3 required=5.0 tests=BAYES_00,HELO_LOCALHOST, UNPARSEABLE_RELAY autolearn=no version=3.2.5 X-Spam-Level: * X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.2.5 (2008-06-10) on salvator.ibr.cs.tu-bs.de Cc: kfall@cs.berkeley.edu, gc355804@ohio.edu, Stephen.Farrell@cs.tcd.ie Subject: [nmrg] [Internet-Drafts@ietf.org: I-D Action:draft-irtf-dtnrg-ding-network-management-00.txt] X-BeenThere: nmrg@ibr.cs.tu-bs.de X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.11 Precedence: list Reply-To: Juergen Schoenwaelder List-Id: Network Management Research Group List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 27 Jan 2010 09:54:40 -0000 Hi, there apparently is work going on in the Detlay Tolerant Network Research Group (DTNGR) that touches on topics where this group has some experience - there was work on SNMP payload compression about 10 years ago here and in the EOS IETF WG. This ID still seems to be early work in the sense that I did not fully understand what the end goal of this work will be. Anyway, people might be interested to take a look or even contribute. /js ----- Forwarded message from "Internet-Drafts@ietf.org" ----- Date: Wed, 27 Jan 2010 05:15:02 +0100 From: "Internet-Drafts@ietf.org" To: "i-d-announce@ietf.org" Subject: I-D Action:draft-irtf-dtnrg-ding-network-management-00.txt Message-ID: <20100127041502.8504428C0E8@core3.amsl.com> A New Internet-Draft is available from the on-line Internet-Drafts directories. Title : DING Protocol -- A Protocol For Network Management Author(s) : G. Clark Filename : draft-irtf-dtnrg-ding-network-management-00.txt Pages : 11 Date : 2010-01-26 This memo describes the DING (Diagnostic Interplanetary Network Gateway) protocol, which is a network management protocol designed for use in delay and disruption tolerant networks (DTNs). The protocol is designed to eliminate some of the overhead involved with using SNMP to manage hosts on a DTN. A URL for this Internet-Draft is: http://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-irtf-dtnrg-ding-network-management-00.txt Internet-Drafts are also available by anonymous FTP at: ftp://ftp.ietf.org/internet-drafts/ Below is the data which will enable a MIME compliant mail reader implementation to automatically retrieve the ASCII version of the Internet-Draft. _______________________________________________ I-D-Announce mailing list I-D-Announce@ietf.org https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/i-d-announce Internet-Draft directories: http://www.ietf.org/shadow.html or ftp://ftp.ietf.org/ietf/1shadow-sites.txt ----- End forwarded message ----- -- Juergen Schoenwaelder Jacobs University Bremen gGmbH Phone: +49 421 200 3587 Campus Ring 1, 28759 Bremen, Germany Fax: +49 421 200 3103