From nobody Fri May 9 06:27:44 2014 Return-Path: X-Original-To: nmrg@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: nmrg@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 274401A014C for ; Fri, 9 May 2014 06:27:41 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -15.152 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-15.152 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_HI=-5, RP_MATCHES_RCVD=-0.651, SPF_PASS=-0.001, USER_IN_DEF_DKIM_WL=-7.5] autolearn=ham Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id oTLXyUcySAPd for ; Fri, 9 May 2014 06:27:39 -0700 (PDT) Received: from rcdn-iport-1.cisco.com (rcdn-iport-1.cisco.com [173.37.86.72]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9A3901A0068 for ; Fri, 9 May 2014 06:27:39 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/simple; d=cisco.com; i=@cisco.com; l=1860; q=dns/txt; s=iport; t=1399642055; x=1400851655; h=from:to:subject:date:message-id: content-transfer-encoding:mime-version; bh=IDEriktS7kV74JTwur2gIsWXGslkirCNXFukAUd2URA=; b=YJJhGPkfmSA6iGaoD5vL0MCYJPGA9bKGJtPN8Oimb6UJIr9k73ksqa6r WD2bsnSzcDE7v683/s9YjUf772taErN05JkKU6I6GOxYWh9HuiPdQNmxP V1W4TsLJcUTSuh6Wj0hS9g1s16+yI3J/sKgIvSkDQCSK6g1OJPfI71JzD 8=; X-IronPort-Anti-Spam-Filtered: true X-IronPort-Anti-Spam-Result: AqgIADjXbFOtJA2K/2dsb2JhbABZgwZPWKsYCwEBAQEBAQUBmhgBgRcWdIInAQQ6UQEqFEImAQQbARKIJg2dHbQIF4VWiEuDY4EVBKxJgzZtgUI X-IronPort-AV: E=Sophos;i="4.97,1018,1389744000"; d="scan'208";a="323457862" Received: from alln-core-5.cisco.com ([173.36.13.138]) by rcdn-iport-1.cisco.com with ESMTP; 09 May 2014 13:27:34 +0000 Received: from xhc-rcd-x11.cisco.com (xhc-rcd-x11.cisco.com [173.37.183.85]) by alln-core-5.cisco.com (8.14.5/8.14.5) with ESMTP id s49DRYmf001409 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=AES128-SHA bits=128 verify=FAIL) for ; Fri, 9 May 2014 13:27:34 GMT Received: from xmb-rcd-x14.cisco.com ([169.254.4.67]) by xhc-rcd-x11.cisco.com ([173.37.183.85]) with mapi id 14.03.0123.003; Fri, 9 May 2014 08:27:34 -0500 From: "Michael Behringer (mbehring)" To: "nmrg@irtf.org" Thread-Topic: New Use Case Document: Autonomic Network Bootstrap Thread-Index: Ac9riias8CPNnWpiSLiTjNEdNSPK6A== Date: Fri, 9 May 2014 13:27:33 +0000 Message-ID: <3AA7118E69D7CD4BA3ECD5716BAF28DF21089BAC@xmb-rcd-x14.cisco.com> Accept-Language: en-GB, en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-originating-ip: [10.55.238.131] Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable MIME-Version: 1.0 Archived-At: http://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/nmrg/mU1RA7BFv5zkr2KJWKKQO8Iv38g Subject: [nmrg] New Use Case Document: Autonomic Network Bootstrap X-BeenThere: nmrg@irtf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: Network Management Research Group discussion list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 09 May 2014 13:27:41 -0000 NMRG,=20 As discussed previously, here a use case contribution on Autonomic Networki= ng: http://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-behringer-autonomic-bootstrap-00.= txt=20 While writing this document, I realised that we need to adapt the use case = template further. At least in my use case, the template didn't flow perfect= ly yet. Here my main points:=20 1) We should bring out very explicitly why an autonomic (ie, distributed) s= olution is preferred or required. In my use case I therefore added a sectio= n "Benefits of an Autonomic Solution". As you can see, it's a very short pa= ragraph, but I think we should be explicit about it. After all, this is wha= t our use cases are all about. 2) The title "Parameters each device can decide for itself" doesn't really = gel well in my doc. The issue is the word "decide". My original proposal wa= s "Self-knowledge", which doesn't really capture is fully either. I decided= in my version to call this section "Device Based Self-Knowledge and Decisi= ons". I think that captures both thoughts. 3) The separation of parameters (old section 4) and Interactions (old secti= on 5) didn't really work out too well either for my use case. In 4 we say "= parameters needed" and in 5 "information needed from neighbour devices". In= my use case the following slightly re-shuffled structure worked better:=20 1. Introduction =20 2. Problem Statement=20 3. Benefits of an Autonomic Solution 4. Intended User and Administrator Experience=20 5. Analysis of Parameters and Information Involved 5.1. Device Based Self-Knowledge and Decisions 5.2. Interactions with other devices 5.3. Information needed from Intent=20 5.4. Monitoring, diagnostics and reporting 6. Comparison with current solutions Thoughts?=20 Michael From nobody Fri May 9 13:23:47 2014 Return-Path: X-Original-To: nmrg@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: nmrg@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id B8DAD1A00E3 for ; Fri, 9 May 2014 13:23:45 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id wdAwdBW5y3Sh for ; Fri, 9 May 2014 13:23:44 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail-pa0-x234.google.com (mail-pa0-x234.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:400e:c03::234]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1BD9A1A00D5 for ; Fri, 9 May 2014 13:23:44 -0700 (PDT) Received: by mail-pa0-f52.google.com with SMTP id fa1so671883pad.25 for ; Fri, 09 May 2014 13:23:39 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20120113; h=message-id:date:from:organization:user-agent:mime-version:to:cc :subject:references:in-reply-to:content-type :content-transfer-encoding; bh=QYeUcRmVvK3Jt6aun4QNysJr4Z7u7qhackIel5WfGjQ=; b=a/I96lYsqDD9kNnVWOeb2/SGiDlwdUF7GUdHljWAsUL7//TGP5Ms440NCk4F7TRw4O Py3eMnVwctB7FgRUbSgFm2CMlP9J3Oo9ID2h2qM+fasdBw1r00EgZzFAJ3SmMfcvEsKn 2Q68pewExswVO+Pv5AkLUmYicIf1OGi3vggKVjUViemGmWJ1XlF6uJTJJ0euMmErJhIX zI7bsqFiVd94V4Ga0O5uD5TIHxeMfCLTIoed+L2+WBGmB4HWXF25ejAgDvF3x22ZhoTr f/Le93rUE6y7s0YGYyPQ31RhMORgGU9xKdRTjcBNvwF61QX2Wa181I8c9dYN4DY2UxSg 7DqQ== X-Received: by 10.66.139.38 with SMTP id qv6mr24174681pab.123.1399667019019; Fri, 09 May 2014 13:23:39 -0700 (PDT) Received: from [192.168.178.20] (227.199.69.111.dynamic.snap.net.nz. [111.69.199.227]) by mx.google.com with ESMTPSA id ox3sm9072197pbb.88.2014.05.09.13.23.36 for (version=TLSv1 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-RC4-SHA bits=128/128); Fri, 09 May 2014 13:23:38 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <536D3954.9080607@gmail.com> Date: Sat, 10 May 2014 08:23:48 +1200 From: Brian E Carpenter Organization: University of Auckland User-Agent: Thunderbird 2.0.0.6 (Windows/20070728) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: "Michael Behringer (mbehring)" References: <3AA7118E69D7CD4BA3ECD5716BAF28DF21089BAC@xmb-rcd-x14.cisco.com> In-Reply-To: <3AA7118E69D7CD4BA3ECD5716BAF28DF21089BAC@xmb-rcd-x14.cisco.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Archived-At: http://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/nmrg/E__PB3RAxx1DmBoFwqm7SkkFkO0 Cc: "nmrg@irtf.org" Subject: Re: [nmrg] New Use Case Document: Autonomic Network Bootstrap X-BeenThere: nmrg@irtf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: Network Management Research Group discussion list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 09 May 2014 20:23:45 -0000 Hi Michael, Thanks for that. I will find the time to read your draft carefully rather than replying in the abstract, but I guess we should not be too rigid about the format anyway - after all, the goal is not the format, but to understand and extract the requirements. Indeed, as you have experienced, each use case raises its own topics. (I recently reviewed the RTCweb use cases document. Their aproach is quite relaxed about the description of each use case, but very systematic in the description of the requirements. See draft-ietf-rtcweb-use-cases-and-requirements.) Everybody: we are just starting a discussion with the IETF Area Directors about a BOF in Toronto based on various AN use cases. More news later, but now would be a good time to post one or two more use cases. Regards Brian Carpenter On 10/05/2014 01:27, Michael Behringer (mbehring) wrote: > NMRG, > > As discussed previously, here a use case contribution on Autonomic Networking: > > http://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-behringer-autonomic-bootstrap-00.txt > > While writing this document, I realised that we need to adapt the use case template further. At least in my use case, the template didn't flow perfectly yet. Here my main points: > > 1) We should bring out very explicitly why an autonomic (ie, distributed) solution is preferred or required. In my use case I therefore added a section "Benefits of an Autonomic Solution". As you can see, it's a very short paragraph, but I think we should be explicit about it. After all, this is what our use cases are all about. > > 2) The title "Parameters each device can decide for itself" doesn't really gel well in my doc. The issue is the word "decide". My original proposal was "Self-knowledge", which doesn't really capture is fully either. I decided in my version to call this section "Device Based Self-Knowledge and Decisions". I think that captures both thoughts. > > 3) The separation of parameters (old section 4) and Interactions (old section 5) didn't really work out too well either for my use case. In 4 we say "parameters needed" and in 5 "information needed from neighbour devices". In my use case the following slightly re-shuffled structure worked better: > > 1. Introduction > 2. Problem Statement > 3. Benefits of an Autonomic Solution > 4. Intended User and Administrator Experience > 5. Analysis of Parameters and Information Involved > 5.1. Device Based Self-Knowledge and Decisions > 5.2. Interactions with other devices > 5.3. Information needed from Intent > 5.4. Monitoring, diagnostics and reporting > 6. Comparison with current solutions > > Thoughts? > Michael > > > _______________________________________________ > nmrg mailing list > nmrg@irtf.org > https://www.irtf.org/mailman/listinfo/nmrg > From nobody Sun May 11 16:13:41 2014 Return-Path: X-Original-To: nmrg@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: nmrg@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id D6AAE1A029F for ; Sun, 11 May 2014 16:13:38 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id fC2GSoJl6PID for ; Sun, 11 May 2014 16:13:36 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail-pa0-x22a.google.com (mail-pa0-x22a.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:400e:c03::22a]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id C6C211A037B for ; Sun, 11 May 2014 16:13:36 -0700 (PDT) Received: by mail-pa0-f42.google.com with SMTP id rd3so7039564pab.15 for ; Sun, 11 May 2014 16:13:31 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20120113; h=message-id:date:from:organization:user-agent:mime-version:to:cc :subject:references:in-reply-to:content-type :content-transfer-encoding; bh=nvNo8E082fkFhaXJNXK9mTFSadQqivvO4911t60cHtY=; b=Ae5+IdHVUyAIdh9WYRmHjLuC79G9CYE8hWkJ9alj7bD6oClzZ8Bp6lde0x0AwPA+lg 07S3iSTDyXLZSG7gMO6wUBu+L94pM5OaWItWMK8Dw9SJ/Q+NqOkGFKr4lPX4gdmGaCIA qpR8H2dFXG0M9VdQvkroV9VcvBQVW+vikxnxfOLs4NMTzuUDULwh8UVRWh2Fix6VpbgB 5QR1u9z6O0azlw2XMSr4+iuaWdi6sQyiX1AcP9dYGXrT/4MQR3zmxIX06mMxI5Kh1Ge+ gOeTD1DFswoz/lIRBoq+5sdySh5eQ38YecXG7J4hc5tfzGkWXVo6IIfG/SKHI2cOvZoX HdiQ== X-Received: by 10.66.146.170 with SMTP id td10mr48387691pab.105.1399850011101; Sun, 11 May 2014 16:13:31 -0700 (PDT) Received: from [192.168.178.20] (174.197.69.111.dynamic.snap.net.nz. [111.69.197.174]) by mx.google.com with ESMTPSA id qp12sm40501556pab.47.2014.05.11.16.13.28 for (version=TLSv1 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-RC4-SHA bits=128/128); Sun, 11 May 2014 16:13:30 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <53700417.9070708@gmail.com> Date: Mon, 12 May 2014 11:13:27 +1200 From: Brian E Carpenter Organization: University of Auckland User-Agent: Thunderbird 2.0.0.6 (Windows/20070728) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: "Michael Behringer (mbehring)" References: <3AA7118E69D7CD4BA3ECD5716BAF28DF21089BAC@xmb-rcd-x14.cisco.com> In-Reply-To: <3AA7118E69D7CD4BA3ECD5716BAF28DF21089BAC@xmb-rcd-x14.cisco.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Archived-At: http://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/nmrg/JgAzRK-cobNJDplm68N_34pp9Rc Cc: "nmrg@irtf.org" Subject: Re: [nmrg] New Use Case Document: Autonomic Network Bootstrap X-BeenThere: nmrg@irtf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: Network Management Research Group discussion list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sun, 11 May 2014 23:13:39 -0000 Hi everybody, I find this use case clear and have no objections to the changes in format compared to the other two. In the end it's more important (IMHO) to capture the essentials of the use case than to follow a rigid format, so I think I'd be happy with use case authors varying the format as long as the main points are covered. What do other people think? On 10/05/2014 01:27, Michael Behringer (mbehring) wrote: > NMRG, > > As discussed previously, here a use case contribution on Autonomic Networking: > > http://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-behringer-autonomic-bootstrap-00.txt > > While writing this document, I realised that we need to adapt the use case template further. At least in my use case, the template didn't flow perfectly yet. Here my main points: > > 1) We should bring out very explicitly why an autonomic (ie, distributed) solution is preferred or required. In my use case I therefore added a section "Benefits of an Autonomic Solution". As you can see, it's a very short paragraph, but I think we should be explicit about it. After all, this is what our use cases are all about. Yes, although in a sense the high-level benefit is always the same: get as close as possible to plug-and-play. So we would need to be stating something more specific than that. > > 2) The title "Parameters each device can decide for itself" doesn't really gel well in my doc. The issue is the word "decide". My original proposal was "Self-knowledge", which doesn't really capture is fully either. I decided in my version to call this section "Device Based Self-Knowledge and Decisions". I think that captures both thoughts. Yes, and of course they are closely related. For example a router could detect that it has 3 interfaces (self knowledge), one of which has another router already announcing a prefix (discovery), so it can decide that it needs to request 2 more prefixes. > 3) The separation of parameters (old section 4) and Interactions (old section 5) didn't really work out too well either for my use case. In 4 we say "parameters needed" and in 5 "information needed from neighbour devices". I see the point, but it is a bit harder in this document to extract the list of parameters that might be the object of negotiation with neighbors. I think that will be important when we try to extract requirements. Very possibly, the description of the interactions should preceded the identification of the parameters. Brian > In my use case the following slightly re-shuffled structure worked better: > 1. Introduction > 2. Problem Statement > 3. Benefits of an Autonomic Solution > 4. Intended User and Administrator Experience > 5. Analysis of Parameters and Information Involved > 5.1. Device Based Self-Knowledge and Decisions > 5.2. Interactions with other devices > 5.3. Information needed from Intent > 5.4. Monitoring, diagnostics and reporting > 6. Comparison with current solutions > > Thoughts? > Michael > > > _______________________________________________ > nmrg mailing list > nmrg@irtf.org > https://www.irtf.org/mailman/listinfo/nmrg > From nobody Mon May 12 09:48:31 2014 Return-Path: X-Original-To: nmrg@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: nmrg@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7EB1B1A072A for ; Mon, 12 May 2014 09:48:29 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -10.152 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-10.152 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, RP_MATCHES_RCVD=-0.651, SPF_PASS=-0.001, USER_IN_DEF_DKIM_WL=-7.5] autolearn=ham Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 209bmNgs3x06 for ; Mon, 12 May 2014 09:48:27 -0700 (PDT) Received: from alln-iport-7.cisco.com 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alln-iport-7.cisco.com with ESMTP; 12 May 2014 16:48:21 +0000 Received: from xhc-rcd-x09.cisco.com (xhc-rcd-x09.cisco.com [173.37.183.83]) by alln-core-5.cisco.com (8.14.5/8.14.5) with ESMTP id s4CGmKDd014513 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=AES128-SHA bits=128 verify=FAIL); Mon, 12 May 2014 16:48:21 GMT Received: from xmb-rcd-x14.cisco.com ([169.254.4.213]) by xhc-rcd-x09.cisco.com ([173.37.183.83]) with mapi id 14.03.0123.003; Mon, 12 May 2014 11:48:20 -0500 From: "Michael Behringer (mbehring)" To: Brian E Carpenter Thread-Topic: [nmrg] New Use Case Document: Autonomic Network Bootstrap Thread-Index: Ac9riias8CPNnWpiSLiTjNEdNSPK6ACDl96AABoI0rA= Date: Mon, 12 May 2014 16:48:20 +0000 Message-ID: <3AA7118E69D7CD4BA3ECD5716BAF28DF2109BF07@xmb-rcd-x14.cisco.com> References: <3AA7118E69D7CD4BA3ECD5716BAF28DF21089BAC@xmb-rcd-x14.cisco.com> <53700417.9070708@gmail.com> In-Reply-To: <53700417.9070708@gmail.com> Accept-Language: en-GB, en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: 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cw0KPiA+DQo+ID4gVGhvdWdodHM/DQo+ID4gTWljaGFlbA0KPiA+DQo+ID4NCj4gPiBfX19fX19f X19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fXw0KPiA+IG5tcmcgbWFpbGlu ZyBsaXN0DQo+ID4gbm1yZ0BpcnRmLm9yZw0KPiA+IGh0dHBzOi8vd3d3LmlydGYub3JnL21haWxt YW4vbGlzdGluZm8vbm1yZw0KPiA+DQo= From nobody Mon May 12 13:14:41 2014 Return-Path: X-Original-To: nmrg@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: nmrg@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9A5B01A0791 for ; Mon, 12 May 2014 13:14:40 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -7.201 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-7.201 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, HELO_EQ_FR=0.35, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_HI=-5, RP_MATCHES_RCVD=-0.651] autolearn=ham Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id VKKWrLob_0Jk for ; Mon, 12 May 2014 13:14:33 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail3-relais-sop.national.inria.fr (mail3-relais-sop.national.inria.fr [192.134.164.104]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 84DDB1A0727 for ; Mon, 12 May 2014 13:14:33 -0700 (PDT) X-IronPort-AV: E=Sophos;i="4.97,1037,1389740400"; d="scan'208";a="61546295" Received: from 4li54-1-88-174-4-235.fbx.proxad.net (HELO [192.168.0.142]) ([88.174.4.235]) by mail3-relais-sop.national.inria.fr with ESMTP/TLS/AES128-SHA; 12 May 2014 22:14:26 +0200 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=windows-1252 Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 7.2 \(1874\)) From: Olivier Festor In-Reply-To: <3AA7118E69D7CD4BA3ECD5716BAF28DF21089BAC@xmb-rcd-x14.cisco.com> Date: Mon, 12 May 2014 22:14:25 +0200 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Message-Id: <6AEBD89A-2829-4BB5-B87B-9E5570E16304@inria.fr> References: <3AA7118E69D7CD4BA3ECD5716BAF28DF21089BAC@xmb-rcd-x14.cisco.com> To: "Michael Behringer (mbehring)" X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.1874) Archived-At: http://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/nmrg/uItIjqlenaFUKX-wTGss3s97Pk8 Cc: "nmrg@irtf.org" Subject: Re: [nmrg] New Use Case Document: Autonomic Network Bootstrap X-BeenThere: nmrg@irtf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: Network Management Research Group discussion list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 12 May 2014 20:14:40 -0000 Dear Michael and NMRG contributors, comments inline. Le 9 mai 2014 =E0 15:27, Michael Behringer (mbehring) = a =E9crit : > NMRG,=20 >=20 > As discussed previously, here a use case contribution on Autonomic = Networking: >=20 > = http://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-behringer-autonomic-bootstrap-00= .txt=20 (2) Security consideration: "An autonomic approach can used to make a bootstrap process secure. =BB = -> "An autonomic approach can BE used to make a bootstrap process = secure." >=20 > While writing this document, I realised that we need to adapt the use = case template further. At least in my use case, the template didn't flow = perfectly yet. Here my main points:=20 >=20 > 1) We should bring out very explicitly why an autonomic (ie, = distributed) solution is preferred or required. In my use case I = therefore added a section "Benefits of an Autonomic Solution". As you = can see, it's a very short paragraph, but I think we should be explicit = about it. After all, this is what our use cases are all about. An autonomic system is not limited to self-configuration. The other = functions should be explicitly mentioned here as well (protecting, = healing, =85).=20 >=20 > 2) The title "Parameters each device can decide for itself" doesn't = really gel well in my doc. The issue is the word "decide". My original = proposal was "Self-knowledge", which doesn't really capture is fully = either. I decided in my version to call this section "Device Based = Self-Knowledge and Decisions". I think that captures both thoughts. Agreed. >=20 > 3) The separation of parameters (old section 4) and Interactions (old = section 5) didn't really work out too well either for my use case. In 4 = we say "parameters needed" and in 5 "information needed from neighbour = devices =BB. To bootstrap, a device needs to set a couple of parameters.=20 -a- some can be found internally (no need to observe anything outside = or interact with any 3rd party). The #of interfaces of a router = mentioned by Brian in his mail -b- some can be =AB learned =BB by the device from observation of his = environment. No need to interact with a 3rd party -c- some can be learned from interacting with the environment (like = testing for duplicate addresses for examples) -d- some need to be obtained from 3rd party entities (like the cloud = service you mention in the autonomic bootstrap. -e- and sometimes a few need to be pre-provisionned on the devices The first 2 (a & b) correspond to your 5.1 subsection. -c- corresponds = to 5.2. It is unclear to me if -d- are also to be described in 5.2 or = elsewhere ?=20 Where in your proposed structure should -e- appear ? Monitoring, diagnostics and reporting should not be a subsection of the = analysis of parameters & information involved but rather a section on = its own.=20 > In my use case the following slightly re-shuffled structure worked = better:=20 >=20 > 1. Introduction =20 > 2. Problem Statement=20 > 3. Benefits of an Autonomic Solution > 4. Intended User and Administrator Experience=20 > 5. Analysis of Parameters and Information Involved > 5.1. Device Based Self-Knowledge and Decisions > 5.2. Interactions with other devices > 5.3. Information needed from Intent=20 > 5.4. Monitoring, diagnostics and reporting > 6. Comparison with current solutions >=20 > Thoughts?=20 > Michael >=20 /Olivier Festor >=20 > _______________________________________________ > nmrg mailing list > nmrg@irtf.org > https://www.irtf.org/mailman/listinfo/nmrg From nobody Tue May 13 06:24:31 2014 Return-Path: X-Original-To: nmrg@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: nmrg@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id A7CFD1A0120 for ; Tue, 13 May 2014 06:24:30 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -10.152 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-10.152 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, RP_MATCHES_RCVD=-0.651, SPF_PASS=-0.001, USER_IN_DEF_DKIM_WL=-7.5] autolearn=ham Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id SH9E4xBgUhP1 for ; Tue, 13 May 2014 06:24:28 -0700 (PDT) Received: from alln-iport-1.cisco.com (alln-iport-1.cisco.com [173.37.142.88]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7E33F1A0127 for ; Tue, 13 May 2014 06:24:25 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/simple; d=cisco.com; i=@cisco.com; l=4368; q=dns/txt; s=iport; t=1399987459; x=1401197059; h=from:to:cc:subject:date:message-id:references: in-reply-to:content-transfer-encoding:mime-version; bh=IbyXvu6pPIjsgG9jiUDf+MYGQDTlgRtBVf+Au38zJT8=; b=YztyC4jT9eUodU7ZDx+WDMSQs8iH/oYQn8Pf9bu4Q2v5OVqRT35V/lEi adb3/NUjLGbROYgfpwgSwh2wDHAgLMqXQg21bLMHctoXZFpt8QVzW4lCn gh8ruCeKpRe/1GmnZ4Nl+4pj9vjn6bUUX2MqPAqbDvFmfOlt0Sgkpmv7P 4=; X-IronPort-Anti-Spam-Filtered: true X-IronPort-Anti-Spam-Result: AosHANEbclOtJA2M/2dsb2JhbABZgwZPWKtTAQEBAQEBBQGSYIc7AYEgFnSCJQEBAQMBAQEBJBM0CwULAgEIIhQQJwslAQEEDgUIE4geCA3QVxMEhVaHAYEjBwEBHjEHgyuBFQSsT4M2gW0JFyI X-IronPort-AV: E=Sophos;i="4.97,1044,1389744000"; d="scan'208";a="43386304" Received: from alln-core-7.cisco.com ([173.36.13.140]) by alln-iport-1.cisco.com with ESMTP; 13 May 2014 13:24:18 +0000 Received: from xhc-rcd-x05.cisco.com (xhc-rcd-x05.cisco.com [173.37.183.79]) by alln-core-7.cisco.com (8.14.5/8.14.5) with ESMTP id s4DDOIeG007072 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=AES128-SHA bits=128 verify=FAIL); Tue, 13 May 2014 13:24:18 GMT Received: from xmb-rcd-x14.cisco.com ([169.254.4.213]) by xhc-rcd-x05.cisco.com ([173.37.183.79]) with mapi id 14.03.0123.003; Tue, 13 May 2014 08:24:17 -0500 From: "Michael Behringer (mbehring)" To: Olivier Festor Thread-Topic: [nmrg] New Use Case Document: Autonomic Network Bootstrap Thread-Index: Ac9riias8CPNnWpiSLiTjNEdNSPK6ACvocmAABjzHgA= Date: Tue, 13 May 2014 13:24:17 +0000 Message-ID: <3AA7118E69D7CD4BA3ECD5716BAF28DF2109D853@xmb-rcd-x14.cisco.com> References: <3AA7118E69D7CD4BA3ECD5716BAF28DF21089BAC@xmb-rcd-x14.cisco.com> <6AEBD89A-2829-4BB5-B87B-9E5570E16304@inria.fr> In-Reply-To: <6AEBD89A-2829-4BB5-B87B-9E5570E16304@inria.fr> Accept-Language: en-GB, en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-originating-ip: [10.55.238.134] Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable MIME-Version: 1.0 Archived-At: http://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/nmrg/SdIMHvIJjKFi8U2_eozDyi8N4yA Cc: "nmrg@irtf.org" Subject: Re: [nmrg] New Use Case Document: Autonomic Network Bootstrap X-BeenThere: nmrg@irtf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: Network Management Research Group discussion list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 13 May 2014 13:24:30 -0000 Thanks for your mail, Olivier, responses inline... > (2) Security consideration: > "An autonomic approach can used to make a bootstrap process secure. > -> > "An autonomic approach can BE used to make a bootstrap process secure." Thanks, will be fixed. =20 > > While writing this document, I realised that we need to adapt the use c= ase > template further. At least in my use case, the template didn't flow perfe= ctly > yet. Here my main points: > > > > 1) We should bring out very explicitly why an autonomic (ie, distribute= d) > solution is preferred or required. In my use case I therefore added a sec= tion > "Benefits of an Autonomic Solution". As you can see, it's a very short > paragraph, but I think we should be explicit about it. After all, this is= what > our use cases are all about. >=20 > An autonomic system is not limited to self-configuration. The other > functions should be explicitly mentioned here as well (protecting, healin= g, > ...). Completely agree, but I don't understand why you mention that. The text you= reference doesn't mention configuration at all. Also the draft mentions "c= onfig" 4 times, and I believe in the correct context. Please point to some = text that you believe needs fixing.=20 =20 > > 2) The title "Parameters each device can decide for itself" doesn't rea= lly > gel well in my doc. The issue is the word "decide". My original proposal = was > "Self-knowledge", which doesn't really capture is fully either. I decided= in > my version to call this section "Device Based Self-Knowledge and > Decisions". I think that captures both thoughts. >=20 > Agreed. Tx > > 3) The separation of parameters (old section 4) and Interactions (old > section 5) didn't really work out too well either for my use case. In 4 w= e say > "parameters needed" and in 5 "information needed from neighbour devices > >. >=20 > To bootstrap, a device needs to set a couple of parameters. > -a- some can be found internally (no need to observe anything outside or > interact with any 3rd party). The #of interfaces of a router mentioned by > Brian in his mail > -b- some can be < learned > by the device from observation of his > environment. No need to interact with a 3rd party > -c- some can be learned from interacting with the environment (like test= ing > for duplicate addresses for examples) > -d- some need to be obtained from 3rd party entities (like the cloud ser= vice > you mention in the autonomic bootstrap. > -e- and sometimes a few need to be pre-provisionned on the devices >=20 > The first 2 (a & b) correspond to your 5.1 subsection. -c- corresponds to= 5.2. > It is unclear to me if -d- are also to be described in 5.2 or elsewhere ? > Where in your proposed structure should -e- appear ? To me, your -d- falls into 5.2., "interaction with other devices". Where th= e word "devices" doesn't capture the spirit exactly either.=20 =20 > Monitoring, diagnostics and reporting should not be a subsection of the > analysis of parameters & information involved but rather a section on its > own. Hmmm... Yes, that would be possible. No strong views here. To me, I saw it = as a protocol interaction that has to happen, so it falls into section 5.=20 Bottom line: There is no 100% right or wrong. As long as the information is= there in the draft, and as long as the main points are covered (ie we have= n't missed a main point), I think let's not over engineer this template eit= her. Slight adaptations to specific use cases are legit.=20 Michael=20 > > In my use case the following slightly re-shuffled structure worked bett= er: > > > > 1. Introduction > > 2. Problem Statement > > 3. Benefits of an Autonomic Solution > > 4. Intended User and Administrator Experience > > 5. Analysis of Parameters and Information Involved > > 5.1. Device Based Self-Knowledge and Decisions > > 5.2. Interactions with other devices > > 5.3. Information needed from Intent > > 5.4. Monitoring, diagnostics and reporting > > 6. Comparison with current solutions > > > > Thoughts? > > Michael > > >=20 > /Olivier Festor >=20 > > > > _______________________________________________ > > nmrg mailing list > > nmrg@irtf.org > > https://www.irtf.org/mailman/listinfo/nmrg From nobody Tue May 13 13:04:37 2014 Return-Path: X-Original-To: nmrg@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: nmrg@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id D9CDA1A01B1 for ; Tue, 13 May 2014 13:04:35 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id hzoozdUVNEcA for ; Tue, 13 May 2014 13:04:34 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail-pb0-x229.google.com (mail-pb0-x229.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:400e:c01::229]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7895E1A01A6 for ; Tue, 13 May 2014 13:04:34 -0700 (PDT) Received: by mail-pb0-f41.google.com with SMTP id uo5so301362pbc.28 for ; Tue, 13 May 2014 13:04:28 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20120113; h=message-id:date:from:organization:user-agent:mime-version:to :subject:content-type:content-transfer-encoding; bh=tThxyJGWmX6+tDxfitHvZm/6gTMqdYHC5vJuLaKdLN4=; b=PQNv77/9bTIx0wma0A+V2tPzYfkWb4NQgNCbklAIGa3m6BQS+aZ+gdXs8EzIXAICDf V+bSz+77yBHC9WlvidCKa0wJpXnNI0YvfNss/vhfO9jx17wZ6Ct1kz7NMmtlOSJpZirh ORvFGKNzLiVkWGiQEQQT5exhNCEh6k/2AvXl3o+MFZUbAFphyzE+nDr73Y66QfXqn0L1 Z/XBnWWFO2NYBjAO/lG1+p9DhLgUCIA1PN9VzKfJSuKpVPGhmlMvJ4d4MpwNqnYRtNEj 1skQ4I4p8475itrixtZn/2vy90gJenijeDc8M6Cr+eZe4sbT0r7JFk7BuyIYfChVNbgc AM1g== X-Received: by 10.68.221.42 with SMTP id qb10mr7611670pbc.65.1400011467209; Tue, 13 May 2014 13:04:27 -0700 (PDT) Received: from [192.168.178.20] (8.193.69.111.dynamic.snap.net.nz. [111.69.193.8]) by mx.google.com with ESMTPSA id eh4sm24011846pbc.79.2014.05.13.13.04.25 for (version=TLSv1 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-RC4-SHA bits=128/128); Tue, 13 May 2014 13:04:26 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <53727ACC.80507@gmail.com> Date: Wed, 14 May 2014 08:04:28 +1200 From: Brian E Carpenter Organization: University of Auckland User-Agent: Thunderbird 2.0.0.6 (Windows/20070728) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: nmrg@irtf.org Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Archived-At: http://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/nmrg/6iSPY8nlcMJLP9PIRriSAnFr9Nk Subject: [nmrg] IETF BOF proposal on autonomic networking use cases X-BeenThere: nmrg@irtf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: Network Management Research Group discussion list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 13 May 2014 20:04:36 -0000 http://trac.tools.ietf.org/bof/trac/wiki/WikiStart#TimeframeIETF90Toronto Discussion here, and further use case documents, both very welcome. Brian From nobody Tue May 13 13:08:22 2014 Return-Path: X-Original-To: nmrg@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: nmrg@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 83B211A01CB for ; Tue, 13 May 2014 13:08:16 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id FgWlqKyb2BxN for ; Tue, 13 May 2014 13:08:12 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail-pa0-x229.google.com (mail-pa0-x229.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:400e:c03::229]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 83D821A01D5 for ; Tue, 13 May 2014 13:08:12 -0700 (PDT) Received: by mail-pa0-f41.google.com with SMTP id lj1so674706pab.14 for ; Tue, 13 May 2014 13:08:06 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20120113; h=message-id:date:from:organization:user-agent:mime-version:to :subject:content-type:content-transfer-encoding; bh=taSvIy5hlwt2s785ltakmQEgWBjhXHTeJoq2IOUsSYU=; b=FePxHchYY091i7J7NFEtr524geE3lJKqMp7KIPnpyBNOnPa3M2kscmug5Kk576ktPT of6GWq0NSOAcaDzqgU0nGlGaAN3oCDZrhv8/7hj1lxg4Kizz47N0HwniDzMUNjx6oxGa Jr9wb8jY8nfwWie2pBteuctrd+16H3IfQeXvx7bIKuHzYFvTxeo/A4E3z2K+VZaIJbYU PjDSVsvU2TDtD2p20J+QoNKio60CO2uVVZV3yNjbhXdSAqcEm9MJRcOLCi83GSPs13tw zECu/QL0rDDBmrEPQ2AGPUH6qgJXAmvxHavNpf9VrP25qKozUSa2EvJCKNnrBa10Ih9g DssQ== X-Received: by 10.67.22.33 with SMTP id hp1mr46574779pad.134.1400011686298; Tue, 13 May 2014 13:08:06 -0700 (PDT) Received: from [192.168.178.20] (8.193.69.111.dynamic.snap.net.nz. [111.69.193.8]) by mx.google.com with ESMTPSA id ky8sm29718515pbc.64.2014.05.13.13.08.04 for (version=TLSv1 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-RC4-SHA bits=128/128); Tue, 13 May 2014 13:08:05 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <53727BA7.7040307@gmail.com> Date: Wed, 14 May 2014 08:08:07 +1200 From: Brian E Carpenter Organization: University of Auckland User-Agent: Thunderbird 2.0.0.6 (Windows/20070728) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: nmrg@irtf.org Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Archived-At: http://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/nmrg/8GQvmFUf2dQT8Wa1BOGAEkZcdrM Subject: [nmrg] IETF BOF proposal on autonomic networking use cases (better link) X-BeenThere: nmrg@irtf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: Network Management Research Group discussion list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 13 May 2014 20:08:17 -0000 http://trac.tools.ietf.org/bof/trac/wiki/WikiStart#UCANproposal Discussion here, and further use case documents, both very welcome. Brian From nobody Wed May 14 17:01:39 2014 Return-Path: X-Original-To: nmrg@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: nmrg@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id DC9951A0302 for ; Wed, 14 May 2014 17:01:38 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -0.978 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-0.978 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, FM_FORGED_GMAIL=0.622, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, MIME_8BIT_HEADER=0.3, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id vQ-jv6EoomYM for ; Wed, 14 May 2014 17:01:37 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail-lb0-x231.google.com (mail-lb0-x231.google.com [IPv6:2a00:1450:4010:c04::231]) (using TLSv1 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-RC4-SHA (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id C3D171A0207 for ; Wed, 14 May 2014 17:01:36 -0700 (PDT) Received: by mail-lb0-f177.google.com with SMTP id s7so207927lbd.8 for ; Wed, 14 May 2014 17:01:28 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20120113; h=mime-version:sender:in-reply-to:references:date:message-id:subject :from:to:cc:content-type:content-transfer-encoding; bh=mQOl//XaunuGXTf+q4J8nQtJPeFw9/+mNSCDb0Ew50w=; b=SvrQ+4zWT48IMf50q7RivaNgP290BEJDnvWdDqBI9R0Zb+mj5Cim7EO7pVK1GziaPd CCPW2gAglcNdry9e4yGMeu4dPd9voyQ27cgu1j8YxeNOWiT8BEWZhstOF60YiD4HONxQ WvyccO/esig92jX5wL/cfXeG4glCqF3O77mL7rT5Mr38dGFBnHaSTc8RU6yiIi+G3R5r pwPKAZCbSdIKl3gLJwQ3zuEZ9P9nDnWDr5ULG1ifP8XAYo+BRx13eJy4niER30M0ZoeU 4Eh6kAnO5bU+EttndmBwoN6WkCxF5jArxUrGUAbKheP3rWrxpsY9h7eo6ASfMpx8h7LL aWOg== MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Received: by 10.112.40.101 with SMTP id w5mr4426318lbk.19.1400112088349; Wed, 14 May 2014 17:01:28 -0700 (PDT) Sender: jeferson.nobre@gmail.com Received: by 10.112.146.234 with HTTP; Wed, 14 May 2014 17:01:28 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: <53727BA7.7040307@gmail.com> References: <53727BA7.7040307@gmail.com> Date: Wed, 14 May 2014 17:01:28 -0700 X-Google-Sender-Auth: IpMPTcmjB-9dFm5dcT5_xE3OIgE Message-ID: From: =?UTF-8?Q?J=C3=A9ferson_Campos_Nobre?= To: Brian E Carpenter Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Archived-At: http://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/nmrg/9k-gXbw4RTstnw8gkjUki4TFhKI Cc: nmrg@irtf.org Subject: Re: [nmrg] IETF BOF proposal on autonomic networking use cases (better link) X-BeenThere: nmrg@irtf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: Network Management Research Group discussion list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 15 May 2014 00:01:39 -0000 Hi Brian. Is it still possible to add use cases for presentation at the BOF? Lisandro and I are working in an draft about autonomic control of measurement probes which is based on the material presented at the 31st and 32nd NMRG meetings. The draft should be finished in a couple of weeks. Thank you. Best. J=C3=A9ferson Campos Nobre PhD Student Computer Networks Group - Institute of Informatics Federal University of Rio Grande do Sul http://www.inf.ufrgs.br/~jcnobre On Tue, May 13, 2014 at 1:08 PM, Brian E Carpenter wrote: > http://trac.tools.ietf.org/bof/trac/wiki/WikiStart#UCANproposal > > Discussion here, and further use case documents, both very welcome. > > Brian > > _______________________________________________ > nmrg mailing list > nmrg@irtf.org > https://www.irtf.org/mailman/listinfo/nmrg From nobody Wed May 14 17:48:51 2014 Return-Path: X-Original-To: nmrg@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: nmrg@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id F3A181A0302 for ; Wed, 14 May 2014 17:48:43 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.7 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.7 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, MIME_8BIT_HEADER=0.3, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id HkOFS9ECegvs for ; Wed, 14 May 2014 17:48:43 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail-pb0-x22d.google.com (mail-pb0-x22d.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:400e:c01::22d]) (using TLSv1 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-RC4-SHA (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id D0E891A021C for ; Wed, 14 May 2014 17:48:42 -0700 (PDT) Received: by mail-pb0-f45.google.com with SMTP id um1so316411pbc.4 for ; Wed, 14 May 2014 17:48:36 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20120113; h=message-id:date:from:organization:user-agent:mime-version:to:cc :subject:references:in-reply-to:content-type :content-transfer-encoding; bh=XYw5Zkzc/4UP2CiDI09FKExR2Fn7n4V/TnqJPd1MGXs=; b=eU0B0z1ZjMujtbn862IlS+MQfWjrrCj/U4iN82jJIV5oJ1VKo+AA1asTs3ilxVlVaW X0YKoTtV6olpOyt8CQOuVbSw0a4nrlsn38DovRq/LHHgpaAbbmAVyZEnB6I8mhpIymmq pww8tzx2wM4hv3AbAb0pYzbm+s/6WFDv0NAyOyieU3qldNWbPZk62NeRS7qYjRzUmFtu ohTX3V9TfbhATdyCHhAPw2fWiENoyqviaBFBGoDILGh2dg1+Q6GlLQpQCGVBsHmc7IHu PrYkaOgsfChY0B1eluZ/jQPbtER31X4JYP/7fvW8rtURpuh6Z+Q3oSmKNexDJ9qBJcnG yJMQ== X-Received: by 10.68.218.3 with SMTP id pc3mr8221923pbc.71.1400114916005; Wed, 14 May 2014 17:48:36 -0700 (PDT) Received: from [192.168.178.20] (127.199.69.111.dynamic.snap.net.nz. [111.69.199.127]) by mx.google.com with ESMTPSA id pe3sm5716085pbc.23.2014.05.14.17.48.33 for (version=TLSv1 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-RC4-SHA bits=128/128); Wed, 14 May 2014 17:48:35 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <53740EE7.8060504@gmail.com> Date: Thu, 15 May 2014 12:48:39 +1200 From: Brian E Carpenter Organization: University of Auckland User-Agent: Thunderbird 2.0.0.6 (Windows/20070728) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: =?UTF-8?B?SsOpZmVyc29uIENhbXBvcyBOb2JyZQ==?= References: <53727BA7.7040307@gmail.com> In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Archived-At: http://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/nmrg/Xvrxk7VPDUlugsAV5OZCdNTduY4 Cc: nmrg@irtf.org Subject: Re: [nmrg] IETF BOF proposal on autonomic networking use cases (better link) X-BeenThere: nmrg@irtf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: Network Management Research Group discussion list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 15 May 2014 00:48:44 -0000 Hi, Well, firstly, the BOF is not approved yet and we will not get a decision until about June 13. But of course it would be great to have more use cases published. At the moment we've timed the proposed agenda for a total of 4 cases, and if we get too many we may have to limit the time. Personally I think that a measurement use case would be very interesting, because it's a bit different from traditional network management actions. Regards Brian On 15/05/2014 12:01, J=C3=A9ferson Campos Nobre wrote: > Hi Brian. > Is it still possible to add use cases for presentation at the BOF? > Lisandro and I are working in an draft about autonomic control of > measurement probes which is based on the material presented at the > 31st and 32nd NMRG meetings. The draft should be finished in a couple > of weeks. > Thank you. > Best. >=20 > J=C3=A9ferson Campos Nobre > PhD Student > Computer Networks Group - Institute of Informatics > Federal University of Rio Grande do Sul > http://www.inf.ufrgs.br/~jcnobre >=20 > On Tue, May 13, 2014 at 1:08 PM, Brian E Carpenter > wrote: >> http://trac.tools.ietf.org/bof/trac/wiki/WikiStart#UCANproposal >> >> Discussion here, and further use case documents, both very welcome. >> >> Brian >> >> _______________________________________________ >> nmrg mailing list >> nmrg@irtf.org >> https://www.irtf.org/mailman/listinfo/nmrg >=20 From nobody Thu May 15 04:25:33 2014 Return-Path: X-Original-To: nmrg@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: nmrg@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 080431A0292 for ; Thu, 15 May 2014 04:25:32 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -9.852 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-9.852 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, MIME_8BIT_HEADER=0.3, RP_MATCHES_RCVD=-0.651, SPF_PASS=-0.001, USER_IN_DEF_DKIM_WL=-7.5] autolearn=ham Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id TU_5IOMsh7pi for ; 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d="scan'208";a="44084084" Received: from rcdn-core-9.cisco.com ([173.37.93.145]) by alln-iport-4.cisco.com with ESMTP; 15 May 2014 11:25:20 +0000 Received: from xhc-rcd-x10.cisco.com (xhc-rcd-x10.cisco.com [173.37.183.84]) by rcdn-core-9.cisco.com (8.14.5/8.14.5) with ESMTP id s4FBPKCc021520 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=AES128-SHA bits=128 verify=FAIL); Thu, 15 May 2014 11:25:20 GMT Received: from xmb-rcd-x14.cisco.com ([169.254.4.213]) by xhc-rcd-x10.cisco.com ([173.37.183.84]) with mapi id 14.03.0123.003; Thu, 15 May 2014 06:25:20 -0500 From: "Michael Behringer (mbehring)" To: Brian E Carpenter , =?utf-8?B?SsOpZmVyc29uIENhbXBvcyBOb2JyZQ==?= Thread-Topic: [nmrg] IETF BOF proposal on autonomic networking use cases (better link) Thread-Index: AQHPb9DXbhGG9y0xnkywojSDQ4ibp5tBIwKAgAA6H2A= Date: Thu, 15 May 2014 11:25:19 +0000 Message-ID: <3AA7118E69D7CD4BA3ECD5716BAF28DF210A0975@xmb-rcd-x14.cisco.com> References: <53727BA7.7040307@gmail.com> <53740EE7.8060504@gmail.com> In-Reply-To: <53740EE7.8060504@gmail.com> Accept-Language: en-GB, en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-originating-ip: [10.55.238.134] Content-Type: text/plain; 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charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable MIME-Version: 1.0 Archived-At: http://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/nmrg/_e5svVgCxrNvi_WH17hDUsVeEQE Subject: [nmrg] Proposed Description for UCAN BoF X-BeenThere: nmrg@irtf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: Network Management Research Group discussion list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 15 May 2014 11:52:43 -0000 On the wiki (http://trac.tools.ietf.org/bof/trac/wiki/WikiStart#TimeframeIE= TF90Toronto) we don't have a description yet for the BoF we applied for. Le= t me propose here what I have in mind, for discussion:=20 -- Autonomic Networking focuses on self-management of network elements. An aut= onomic function works in a distributed way across various network elements,= allowing however central guidance and reporting. Autonomic functions alrea= dy exist today, for example IGP routing protocols such as OSPF. However, al= l such functions have their own discovery, messaging and security mechanism= s.=20 =09 This BoF collects and analyses use cases for Autonomic Networking. The goa= l is to find commonalities between various use cases, to be able to determi= ne generic requirements for Autonomic Networking functions and to conclude = whether there is scope for a common, generic Autonomic Networking Infrastru= cture for all autonomic functions.=20 -- What do others want to get out of this BoF? Please provide input!=20 Michael From nobody Thu May 15 13:05:41 2014 Return-Path: X-Original-To: nmrg@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: nmrg@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 18B8E1A0158 for ; Thu, 15 May 2014 13:05:39 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id qqFhZ0fpPbPl for ; Thu, 15 May 2014 13:05:37 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail-pb0-x22b.google.com (mail-pb0-x22b.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:400e:c01::22b]) (using TLSv1 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-RC4-SHA (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 3BC1C1A0146 for ; Thu, 15 May 2014 13:05:37 -0700 (PDT) Received: by mail-pb0-f43.google.com with SMTP id up15so1523603pbc.16 for ; Thu, 15 May 2014 13:05:30 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20120113; h=message-id:date:from:organization:user-agent:mime-version:to:cc :subject:references:in-reply-to:content-type :content-transfer-encoding; bh=dTwxvCKw2kiy993pE6QXidEFq/vBE94P3jmZIuqfdEI=; b=OJ7VyCAgZ6OZvpdRamRAcRWToqVCiEeGYaadZeuvktUI4rWPHLBf/6j41pU1UZrb9M IwcNB2doayh12b74eZ9uxW9XcP+UWzQsa/9RITpROr+k3mTa5Wa0/R4GPF4rdcSfxmXW 2xWiK87TMgI+2X3Wlmb9d5R62oDg3x2SkYTla/0c0hYkb/60ie/38GHr1F7Vmoff9DeH x7gJhwKiA9lV38EPFw+kZf9jrFXE5FAykKSOcm7NYZcANpRqw+v3ANHhq1ad8KMFLtjC wULsUEf9Bk4GMOwM1U9m/R0J6Abo0CBMuQO71h4t5MoTAfPPXxHzmCMOHfvAfXES/D8A 9rPg== X-Received: by 10.66.171.206 with SMTP id aw14mr15215382pac.48.1400184330191; Thu, 15 May 2014 13:05:30 -0700 (PDT) Received: from [192.168.178.20] (101.200.69.111.dynamic.snap.net.nz. [111.69.200.101]) by mx.google.com with ESMTPSA id oe4sm10580356pbb.33.2014.05.15.13.05.26 for (version=TLSv1 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-RC4-SHA bits=128/128); Thu, 15 May 2014 13:05:29 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <53751E0F.20902@gmail.com> Date: Fri, 16 May 2014 08:05:35 +1200 From: Brian E Carpenter Organization: University of Auckland User-Agent: Thunderbird 2.0.0.6 (Windows/20070728) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: "Michael Behringer (mbehring)" References: <53727BA7.7040307@gmail.com> <53740EE7.8060504@gmail.com> <3AA7118E69D7CD4BA3ECD5716BAF28DF210A0975@xmb-rcd-x14.cisco.com> In-Reply-To: <3AA7118E69D7CD4BA3ECD5716BAF28DF210A0975@xmb-rcd-x14.cisco.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Archived-At: http://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/nmrg/Ju7OUkVpCPMLfxqjvfJBOqyymc0 Cc: "nmrg@irtf.org" Subject: Re: [nmrg] IETF BOF proposal on autonomic networking use cases (better link) X-BeenThere: nmrg@irtf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: Network Management Research Group discussion list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 15 May 2014 20:05:39 -0000 On 15/05/2014 23:25, Michael Behringer (mbehring) wrote: > Brian, Jefferson,=20 >=20 > I really think we should get as many use cases as possible. The more we= have, the easier it will be to see patterns in communication, policy and= other requirements.=20 I completely agree. If you look at the RTCweb use cases draft, it contains 15 distinct use cases, from which they extracted 36 separate requirements. If we have too many use cases to fit into one BOF, that would be an excellent result! Brian > Potential use case authors: Make sure you highlight why distribution of= intelligence is preferred over a centralised solution. We will have to a= nswer many questions on "why not just centralise this functionality?", "W= hy do we need this functionality?". So it is important to bring out the a= dvantages of an autonomic approach.=20 >=20 > Who else is thinking of contributing a use case? =20 >=20 > Michael >=20 >=20 >> -----Original Message----- >> From: nmrg [mailto:nmrg-bounces@irtf.org] On Behalf Of Brian E Carpent= er >> Sent: 15 May 2014 02:49 >> To: J=C3=A9ferson Campos Nobre >> Cc: nmrg@irtf.org >> Subject: Re: [nmrg] IETF BOF proposal on autonomic networking use case= s >> (better link) >> >> Hi, >> >> Well, firstly, the BOF is not approved yet and we will not get a decis= ion until >> about June 13. >> >> But of course it would be great to have more use cases published. >> At the moment we've timed the proposed agenda for a total of 4 cases, = and >> if we get too many we may have to limit the time. >> >> Personally I think that a measurement use case would be very interesti= ng, >> because it's a bit different from traditional network management actio= ns. >> >> Regards >> Brian >> >> On 15/05/2014 12:01, J=C3=A9ferson Campos Nobre wrote: >>> Hi Brian. >>> Is it still possible to add use cases for presentation at the BOF? >>> Lisandro and I are working in an draft about autonomic control of >>> measurement probes which is based on the material presented at the >>> 31st and 32nd NMRG meetings. The draft should be finished in a couple= >>> of weeks. >>> Thank you. >>> Best. >>> >>> J=C3=A9ferson Campos Nobre >>> PhD Student >>> Computer Networks Group - Institute of Informatics Federal Universit= y >>> of Rio Grande do Sul http://www.inf.ufrgs.br/~jcnobre >>> >>> On Tue, May 13, 2014 at 1:08 PM, Brian E Carpenter >>> wrote: >>>> http://trac.tools.ietf.org/bof/trac/wiki/WikiStart#UCANproposal >>>> >>>> Discussion here, and further use case documents, both very welcome. >>>> >>>> Brian >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> nmrg mailing list >>>> nmrg@irtf.org >>>> https://www.irtf.org/mailman/listinfo/nmrg >> _______________________________________________ >> nmrg mailing list >> nmrg@irtf.org >> https://www.irtf.org/mailman/listinfo/nmrg From nobody Thu May 15 13:11:06 2014 Return-Path: X-Original-To: nmrg@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: nmrg@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 519561A02C6 for ; Thu, 15 May 2014 13:11:04 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id bbHqZlCuLCmd for ; Thu, 15 May 2014 13:11:02 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail-pa0-x231.google.com (mail-pa0-x231.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:400e:c03::231]) (using TLSv1 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-RC4-SHA (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 837161A02F3 for ; Thu, 15 May 2014 13:10:52 -0700 (PDT) Received: by mail-pa0-f49.google.com with SMTP id lj1so1501166pab.22 for ; Thu, 15 May 2014 13:10:45 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20120113; h=message-id:date:from:organization:user-agent:mime-version:to:cc :subject:references:in-reply-to:content-type :content-transfer-encoding; bh=AlZUgnqwGehe2Ub9Fqr/NlLPySDINEuyy8CUt7vW18Q=; b=k+Rnz2ixX8btzawyIhx2vmZDAJ8I9HPke6FU4+8s6VXXmZ/dwp9x7fLQRcVoYo2uEo zYdz9r2NnBe4zMo8Anrxc9HW0dHe+pY382j4RmkdcNx5ASLLB5E/Lon3rrdbax1uh4yF W5IZRAPhl0oD0h3I3SaLcQUZG1Nrr/ilKFW4SpOfeiy3pxT1hKf1y8cd9SWRKCjSdfWx ZqZ1IdP4quyyyhNI51Pv7u/ljczy096Dmla3bEvQIpJk4JRm9MIOdrdHMSERzy3MPVZX /yMW4knS6ONOmmhLyfXqRJF6kZ/q1XLiZB+6e8t3ryYgrK73O65Vp/8VHp4E4RaWrP7M xqPg== X-Received: by 10.68.192.193 with SMTP id hi1mr15301435pbc.108.1400184645433; Thu, 15 May 2014 13:10:45 -0700 (PDT) Received: from [192.168.178.20] (101.200.69.111.dynamic.snap.net.nz. [111.69.200.101]) by mx.google.com with ESMTPSA id kj1sm10599959pbd.20.2014.05.15.13.10.43 for (version=TLSv1 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-RC4-SHA bits=128/128); Thu, 15 May 2014 13:10:44 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <53751F4C.6050606@gmail.com> Date: Fri, 16 May 2014 08:10:52 +1200 From: Brian E Carpenter Organization: University of Auckland User-Agent: Thunderbird 2.0.0.6 (Windows/20070728) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: "Michael Behringer (mbehring)" References: <3AA7118E69D7CD4BA3ECD5716BAF28DF210A0A1F@xmb-rcd-x14.cisco.com> In-Reply-To: <3AA7118E69D7CD4BA3ECD5716BAF28DF210A0A1F@xmb-rcd-x14.cisco.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Archived-At: http://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/nmrg/1nvjeiCqaB2ff1oKZ-K6sH86MMg Cc: "nmrg@irtf.org" Subject: Re: [nmrg] Proposed Description for UCAN BoF X-BeenThere: nmrg@irtf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: Network Management Research Group discussion list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 15 May 2014 20:11:04 -0000 Michael, Don't you see the description at http://trac.tools.ietf.org/bof/trac/wiki/WikiStart#UCANproposal ? Browser refresh needed? However, your text would be a useful addition I think. Regards Brian On 15/05/2014 23:52, Michael Behringer (mbehring) wrote: > On the wiki (http://trac.tools.ietf.org/bof/trac/wiki/WikiStart#TimeframeIETF90Toronto) we don't have a description yet for the BoF we applied for. Let me propose here what I have in mind, for discussion: > > -- > Autonomic Networking focuses on self-management of network elements. An autonomic function works in a distributed way across various network elements, allowing however central guidance and reporting. Autonomic functions already exist today, for example IGP routing protocols such as OSPF. However, all such functions have their own discovery, messaging and security mechanisms. > > This BoF collects and analyses use cases for Autonomic Networking. The goal is to find commonalities between various use cases, to be able to determine generic requirements for Autonomic Networking functions and to conclude whether there is scope for a common, generic Autonomic Networking Infrastructure for all autonomic functions. > -- > > What do others want to get out of this BoF? Please provide input! > > Michael > From nobody Fri May 16 01:01:13 2014 Return-Path: X-Original-To: nmrg@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: nmrg@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 931661A00C9 for ; Fri, 16 May 2014 01:01:12 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -10.152 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-10.152 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, RP_MATCHES_RCVD=-0.651, SPF_PASS=-0.001, USER_IN_DEF_DKIM_WL=-7.5] autolearn=ham Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id GQU2yZHKcJbw for ; Fri, 16 May 2014 01:01:11 -0700 (PDT) Received: from alln-iport-7.cisco.com (alln-iport-7.cisco.com [173.37.142.94]) (using TLSv1 with cipher RC4-SHA (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 362721A0186 for ; 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Fri, 16 May 2014 08:01:03 GMT Received: from xmb-rcd-x14.cisco.com ([169.254.4.213]) by xhc-rcd-x01.cisco.com ([173.37.183.75]) with mapi id 14.03.0123.003; Fri, 16 May 2014 03:01:03 -0500 From: "Michael Behringer (mbehring)" To: Brian E Carpenter Thread-Topic: Proposed Description for UCAN BoF Thread-Index: Ac9wMTmclff2PD98TL+zuYSEfC0iCwAcnR8AAA4gFVA= Date: Fri, 16 May 2014 08:01:02 +0000 Message-ID: <3AA7118E69D7CD4BA3ECD5716BAF28DF210A40D3@xmb-rcd-x14.cisco.com> References: <3AA7118E69D7CD4BA3ECD5716BAF28DF210A0A1F@xmb-rcd-x14.cisco.com> <53751F4C.6050606@gmail.com> In-Reply-To: <53751F4C.6050606@gmail.com> Accept-Language: en-GB, en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-originating-ip: [10.55.238.134] Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 MIME-Version: 1.0 Archived-At: http://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/nmrg/l8cRyQ_D2MtvSv7f93dEO_84UC4 Cc: "nmrg@irtf.org" Subject: Re: [nmrg] Proposed Description for UCAN BoF X-BeenThere: nmrg@irtf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: Network Management Research Group discussion list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 16 May 2014 08:01:12 -0000 T2gsIGdvc2ghIFNvcnJ5IGFib3V0IHRoYXQsIEkganVzdCBzYXcgdGhlIGVtcHR5ICItIGRlc2Ny aXB0aW9uOiIgYXQgdGhlIHRvcCwgYW5kIGRpZG4ndCBzY3JvbGwgZG93bi4NCg0KTWljaGFlbA0K DQoNCj4gLS0tLS1PcmlnaW5hbCBNZXNzYWdlLS0tLS0NCj4gRnJvbTogQnJpYW4gRSBDYXJwZW50 ZXIgW21haWx0bzpicmlhbi5lLmNhcnBlbnRlckBnbWFpbC5jb21dDQo+IFNlbnQ6IDE1IE1heSAy MDE0IDIyOjExDQo+IFRvOiBNaWNoYWVsIEJlaHJpbmdlciAobWJlaHJpbmcpDQo+IENjOiBubXJn QGlydGYub3JnDQo+IFN1YmplY3Q6IFJlOiBQcm9wb3NlZCBEZXNjcmlwdGlvbiBmb3IgVUNBTiBC b0YNCj4gDQo+IE1pY2hhZWwsDQo+IA0KPiBEb24ndCB5b3Ugc2VlIHRoZSBkZXNjcmlwdGlvbiBh dA0KPiBodHRwOi8vdHJhYy50b29scy5pZXRmLm9yZy9ib2YvdHJhYy93aWtpL1dpa2lTdGFydCNV Q0FOcHJvcG9zYWwgPw0KPiBCcm93c2VyIHJlZnJlc2ggbmVlZGVkPw0KPiANCj4gSG93ZXZlciwg eW91ciB0ZXh0IHdvdWxkIGJlIGEgdXNlZnVsIGFkZGl0aW9uIEkgdGhpbmsuDQo+IA0KPiBSZWdh cmRzDQo+ICAgIEJyaWFuDQo+IA0KPiBPbiAxNS8wNS8yMDE0IDIzOjUyLCBNaWNoYWVsIEJlaHJp bmdlciAobWJlaHJpbmcpIHdyb3RlOg0KPiA+IE9uIHRoZSB3aWtpDQo+IChodHRwOi8vdHJhYy50 b29scy5pZXRmLm9yZy9ib2YvdHJhYy93aWtpL1dpa2lTdGFydCNUaW1lZnJhbWVJRVRGOTBUb3Jv bnRvDQo+ICkgd2UgZG9uJ3QgaGF2ZSBhIGRlc2NyaXB0aW9uIHlldCBmb3IgdGhlIEJvRiB3ZSBh cHBsaWVkIGZvci4gTGV0IG1lIHByb3Bvc2UNCj4gaGVyZSB3aGF0IEkgaGF2ZSBpbiBtaW5kLCBm b3IgZGlzY3Vzc2lvbjoNCj4gPg0KPiA+IC0tDQo+ID4gQXV0b25vbWljIE5ldHdvcmtpbmcgZm9j dXNlcyBvbiBzZWxmLW1hbmFnZW1lbnQgb2YgbmV0d29yaw0KPiBlbGVtZW50cy4gQW4gYXV0b25v bWljIGZ1bmN0aW9uIHdvcmtzIGluIGEgZGlzdHJpYnV0ZWQgd2F5IGFjcm9zcyB2YXJpb3VzDQo+ IG5ldHdvcmsgZWxlbWVudHMsIGFsbG93aW5nIGhvd2V2ZXIgY2VudHJhbCBndWlkYW5jZSBhbmQg cmVwb3J0aW5nLg0KPiBBdXRvbm9taWMgZnVuY3Rpb25zIGFscmVhZHkgZXhpc3QgdG9kYXksIGZv ciBleGFtcGxlIElHUCByb3V0aW5nIHByb3RvY29scw0KPiBzdWNoIGFzIE9TUEYuIEhvd2V2ZXIs IGFsbCBzdWNoIGZ1bmN0aW9ucyBoYXZlIHRoZWlyIG93biBkaXNjb3ZlcnksDQo+IG1lc3NhZ2lu ZyBhbmQgc2VjdXJpdHkgbWVjaGFuaXNtcy4NCj4gPg0KPiA+IFRoaXMgQm9GIGNvbGxlY3RzIGFu ZCBhbmFseXNlcyB1c2UgY2FzZXMgZm9yIEF1dG9ub21pYyBOZXR3b3JraW5nLiAgVGhlDQo+IGdv YWwgaXMgdG8gZmluZCBjb21tb25hbGl0aWVzIGJldHdlZW4gdmFyaW91cyB1c2UgY2FzZXMsIHRv IGJlIGFibGUgdG8NCj4gZGV0ZXJtaW5lIGdlbmVyaWMgcmVxdWlyZW1lbnRzIGZvciBBdXRvbm9t aWMgTmV0d29ya2luZyBmdW5jdGlvbnMgYW5kDQo+IHRvIGNvbmNsdWRlIHdoZXRoZXIgdGhlcmUg aXMgc2NvcGUgZm9yIGEgY29tbW9uLCBnZW5lcmljIEF1dG9ub21pYw0KPiBOZXR3b3JraW5nIElu ZnJhc3RydWN0dXJlIGZvciBhbGwgYXV0b25vbWljIGZ1bmN0aW9ucy4NCj4gPiAtLQ0KPiA+DQo+ ID4gV2hhdCBkbyBvdGhlcnMgd2FudCB0byBnZXQgb3V0IG9mIHRoaXMgQm9GPyBQbGVhc2UgcHJv dmlkZSBpbnB1dCENCj4gPg0KPiA+IE1pY2hhZWwNCj4gPg0K From nobody Sun May 18 18:33:05 2014 Return-Path: X-Original-To: nmrg@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: nmrg@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7E6871A0241 for ; 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[111.69.195.227]) by mx.google.com with ESMTPSA id pl10sm26884235pbb.56.2014.05.18.18.32.59 for (version=TLSv1 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-RC4-SHA bits=128/128); Sun, 18 May 2014 18:33:00 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <53795F4B.1050706@gmail.com> Date: Mon, 19 May 2014 13:32:59 +1200 From: Brian E Carpenter Organization: University of Auckland User-Agent: Thunderbird 2.0.0.6 (Windows/20070728) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: nmrg@irtf.org Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Archived-At: http://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/nmrg/KZV7mxhYOmG4Zzt6rb746QHc_RY Subject: [nmrg] [Fwd: I-D Action: draft-carpenter-nmrg-homenet-an-use-case-01.txt] X-BeenThere: nmrg@irtf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: Network Management Research Group discussion list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 19 May 2014 01:33:03 -0000 This is a small update of one of the use cases for the proposed UCAN BOF. (I decided not to change the file name, but the draft is definitely intended for the BOF.) The changes are mainly to improve the way it describes HNCP. Brian -------- Original Message -------- Subject: I-D Action: draft-carpenter-nmrg-homenet-an-use-case-01.txt Date: Sun, 18 May 2014 18:29:03 -0700 From: internet-drafts@ietf.org Reply-To: internet-drafts@ietf.org To: i-d-announce@ietf.org A New Internet-Draft is available from the on-line Internet-Drafts directories. Title : Autonomic Networking Use Case for Home Networks Author : Brian Carpenter Filename : draft-carpenter-nmrg-homenet-an-use-case-01.txt Pages : 9 Date : 2014-05-18 Abstract: This document describes a use case for autonomic networking in home network scenarios. It is one of a series of use cases intended to illustrate requirements for autonomic networking. The IETF datatracker status page for this draft is: https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-carpenter-nmrg-homenet-an-use-case/ There's also a htmlized version available at: http://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-carpenter-nmrg-homenet-an-use-case-01 A diff from the previous version is available at: http://www.ietf.org/rfcdiff?url2=draft-carpenter-nmrg-homenet-an-use-case-01 Please note that it may take a couple of minutes from the time of submission until the htmlized version and diff are available at tools.ietf.org. Internet-Drafts are also available by anonymous FTP at: ftp://ftp.ietf.org/internet-drafts/ _______________________________________________ I-D-Announce mailing list I-D-Announce@ietf.org https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/i-d-announce Internet-Draft directories: http://www.ietf.org/shadow.html or ftp://ftp.ietf.org/ietf/1shadow-sites.txt From nobody Mon May 19 21:11:14 2014 Return-Path: X-Original-To: nmrg@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: nmrg@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4508C1A0236 for ; Mon, 19 May 2014 21:11:11 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 3jrjKrOOLG68 for ; Mon, 19 May 2014 21:11:02 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail-pd0-x234.google.com (mail-pd0-x234.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:400e:c02::234]) (using TLSv1 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-RC4-SHA (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id E712C1A0230 for ; Mon, 19 May 2014 21:11:01 -0700 (PDT) Received: by mail-pd0-f180.google.com with SMTP id y13so175835pdi.39 for ; Mon, 19 May 2014 21:11:01 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20120113; h=message-id:date:from:organization:user-agent:mime-version:to :subject:content-type:content-transfer-encoding; bh=Nj5+HJBjN348e4q5hh437Ct3Z1/5J4by+Cq4YGfbQD8=; b=MVp5+mxPhTP3KNQwAah3Go1U0wfGu7MuETS4SWLIvOa4ueThABqN9jZ+PXhdQ/LjlA gf+j2wWSATccKrTzc9uIz0HOPBXuDjyb2xWbaEzFbfIOgfBE4eWXZuWn7tvrOP7LZOSt ssSbDOj8ffKc+OWiQ1gaZGC58wfMVrm2/vJnvob3p2s6mxjwmklZXOPBBzusvPM96Iwq 0dOYGSAOh1GOiqP4GDMVKysCss/PZ2b8icuCGlkSPWZYjR35+F/M7/edwrAgGT3xwZ8s 2zoaW4eTLkwSO4zHv7bHUQHo18PnVgbhUAb2o+DaDcilidCZEPCggh2413XUGYp3Omdc CEew== X-Received: by 10.66.66.202 with SMTP id h10mr48014281pat.70.1400559061322; Mon, 19 May 2014 21:11:01 -0700 (PDT) Received: from [192.168.178.23] (20.199.69.111.dynamic.snap.net.nz. [111.69.199.20]) by mx.google.com with ESMTPSA id ir10sm500326pbc.59.2014.05.19.21.10.59 for (version=TLSv1 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-RC4-SHA bits=128/128); Mon, 19 May 2014 21:11:00 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <537AD5D6.2010503@gmail.com> Date: Tue, 20 May 2014 16:11:02 +1200 From: Brian E Carpenter Organization: University of Auckland User-Agent: Thunderbird 2.0.0.6 (Windows/20070728) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: nmrg@irtf.org Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Archived-At: http://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/nmrg/HbUViMFqUtlTFiuHAKMPkuke7yg Subject: [nmrg] [Fwd: I-D Action: draft-jiang-config-negotiation-ps-03.txt] X-BeenThere: nmrg@irtf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: Network Management Research Group discussion list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 20 May 2014 04:11:11 -0000 Hi, This has been updated according to feedback received in London and more recently. The main change is that RESTCONF and HNCP are now discussed in the "Existing protocols" section. The next revision would logically come after the proposed UCAN BOF has allowed us to evaluate several use cases. Brian -------- Original Message -------- Subject: I-D Action: draft-jiang-config-negotiation-ps-03.txt Date: Mon, 19 May 2014 21:04:57 -0700 From: internet-drafts@ietf.org Reply-To: internet-drafts@ietf.org To: i-d-announce@ietf.org A New Internet-Draft is available from the on-line Internet-Drafts directories. Title : Network Configuration Negotiation Problem Statement and Requirements Authors : Sheng Jiang Yuanbin Yin Brian Carpenter Filename : draft-jiang-config-negotiation-ps-03.txt Pages : 15 Date : 2014-05-19 Abstract: This document describes a problem statement and general requirements for distributed autonomic configuration of multiple aspects of networks, in particular carrier networks. The basic model is that network elements need to negotiate configuration settings with each other to meet overall goals. The document describes a generic negotiation behavior model. The document also reviews whether existing management and configuration protocols may be suitable for autonomic networks. The IETF datatracker status page for this draft is: https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-jiang-config-negotiation-ps/ There's also a htmlized version available at: http://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-jiang-config-negotiation-ps-03 A diff from the previous version is available at: http://www.ietf.org/rfcdiff?url2=draft-jiang-config-negotiation-ps-03 Please note that it may take a couple of minutes from the time of submission until the htmlized version and diff are available at tools.ietf.org. Internet-Drafts are also available by anonymous FTP at: ftp://ftp.ietf.org/internet-drafts/ _______________________________________________ I-D-Announce mailing list I-D-Announce@ietf.org https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/i-d-announce Internet-Draft directories: http://www.ietf.org/shadow.html or ftp://ftp.ietf.org/ietf/1shadow-sites.txt From nobody Sun May 25 13:12:15 2014 Return-Path: X-Original-To: nmrg@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: nmrg@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 925141A0368 for ; Sun, 25 May 2014 13:12:11 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -0.101 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-0.101 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_40=-0.001, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id QGCqh5KMXGRi for ; Sun, 25 May 2014 13:12:09 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail-pa0-x235.google.com (mail-pa0-x235.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:400e:c03::235]) (using TLSv1 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-RC4-SHA (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 5ACCF1A03DE for ; Sun, 25 May 2014 13:12:05 -0700 (PDT) Received: by mail-pa0-f53.google.com with SMTP id kp14so6548064pab.12 for ; Sun, 25 May 2014 13:12:00 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20120113; h=message-id:date:from:organization:user-agent:mime-version:to:cc :subject:references:in-reply-to:content-type :content-transfer-encoding; bh=mmCzo5YChHg5jQH2WFpxbp14S1Xoq7kH+N49qRjxcgk=; b=lsQz4kDRUPvRHsiSf59ryqHJIfO010Og6gFHgxMz2c9Vj9GaId9U8W1W+8IEOFbSgC Uu+huWSiyWCMDKj9fmq1hY1+xPXI/gMs7kpOjwwRv7YxHyVjxzUTLQCvEFieaZ3DCn0T Puc77YVqshhorY1pAaczSO5EB7d746cIh9aGgUVzcegZ9Uy0F4J64cN4j1KTnt8NwNOw v8FPgvYxvRDzgtSkYl9W5q2SrjmYK9CekEoWjfYjQi4hYkYwUlYEmhsCJ4aAvBvWzpbC nLmFyIlJzb7l53M3QR3UArShL/y+zKHZI0fFLJnAApD3iP9mDz1yEcRyndcndl+3ZSXq Wfdw== X-Received: by 10.68.226.197 with SMTP id ru5mr22676280pbc.77.1401048720755; Sun, 25 May 2014 13:12:00 -0700 (PDT) Received: from [192.168.178.23] (6.192.69.111.dynamic.snap.net.nz. [111.69.192.6]) by mx.google.com with ESMTPSA id xy2sm25178306pab.16.2014.05.25.13.11.58 for (version=TLSv1 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-RC4-SHA bits=128/128); Sun, 25 May 2014 13:12:00 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <53824E8C.6030400@gmail.com> Date: Mon, 26 May 2014 08:11:56 +1200 From: Brian E Carpenter Organization: University of Auckland User-Agent: Thunderbird 2.0.0.6 (Windows/20070728) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: "nmrg@irtf.org" References: <53727BA7.7040307@gmail.com> <53740EE7.8060504@gmail.com> <3AA7118E69D7CD4BA3ECD5716BAF28DF210A0975@xmb-rcd-x14.cisco.com> <53751E0F.20902@gmail.com> In-Reply-To: <53751E0F.20902@gmail.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Archived-At: http://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/nmrg/P-KDHgwvLz7HEfGSBIyFF8DrbA8 Subject: Re: [nmrg] IETF BOF proposal on autonomic networking use cases (better link) X-BeenThere: nmrg@irtf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: Network Management Research Group discussion list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sun, 25 May 2014 20:12:11 -0000 Just to remind everybody: we need additional use cases to be posted as I-Ds as soon as possible. The IESG (with IAB input) will reach their decisions about which BOFs to approve based on input up to June 6th, so you only have 10 days to act. http://trac.tools.ietf.org/bof/trac/wiki/WikiStart#UCANproposal Regards Brian Carpenter On 16/05/2014 08:05, Brian E Carpenter wrote: > On 15/05/2014 23:25, Michael Behringer (mbehring) wrote: >> Brian, Jefferson,=20 >> >> I really think we should get as many use cases as possible. The more w= e have, the easier it will be to see patterns in communication, policy an= d other requirements.=20 >=20 > I completely agree. If you look at the RTCweb use cases draft, > it contains 15 distinct use cases, from which they extracted 36 > separate requirements. If we have too many use cases to fit into > one BOF, that would be an excellent result! >=20 > Brian >=20 >> Potential use case authors: Make sure you highlight why distribution o= f intelligence is preferred over a centralised solution. We will have to = answer many questions on "why not just centralise this functionality?", "= Why do we need this functionality?". So it is important to bring out the = advantages of an autonomic approach.=20 >> >> Who else is thinking of contributing a use case? =20 >> >> Michael >> >> >>> -----Original Message----- >>> From: nmrg [mailto:nmrg-bounces@irtf.org] On Behalf Of Brian E Carpen= ter >>> Sent: 15 May 2014 02:49 >>> To: J=C3=A9ferson Campos Nobre >>> Cc: nmrg@irtf.org >>> Subject: Re: [nmrg] IETF BOF proposal on autonomic networking use cas= es >>> (better link) >>> >>> Hi, >>> >>> Well, firstly, the BOF is not approved yet and we will not get a deci= sion until >>> about June 13. >>> >>> But of course it would be great to have more use cases published. >>> At the moment we've timed the proposed agenda for a total of 4 cases,= and >>> if we get too many we may have to limit the time. >>> >>> Personally I think that a measurement use case would be very interest= ing, >>> because it's a bit different from traditional network management acti= ons. >>> >>> Regards >>> Brian >>> >>> On 15/05/2014 12:01, J=C3=A9ferson Campos Nobre wrote: >>>> Hi Brian. >>>> Is it still possible to add use cases for presentation at the BOF? >>>> Lisandro and I are working in an draft about autonomic control of >>>> measurement probes which is based on the material presented at the >>>> 31st and 32nd NMRG meetings. The draft should be finished in a coupl= e >>>> of weeks. >>>> Thank you. >>>> Best. >>>> >>>> J=C3=A9ferson Campos Nobre >>>> PhD Student >>>> Computer Networks Group - Institute of Informatics Federal Universi= ty >>>> of Rio Grande do Sul http://www.inf.ufrgs.br/~jcnobre >>>> >>>> On Tue, May 13, 2014 at 1:08 PM, Brian E Carpenter >>>> wrote: >>>>> http://trac.tools.ietf.org/bof/trac/wiki/WikiStart#UCANproposal >>>>> >>>>> Discussion here, and further use case documents, both very welcome.= >>>>> >>>>> Brian >>>>> >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> nmrg mailing list >>>>> nmrg@irtf.org >>>>> https://www.irtf.org/mailman/listinfo/nmrg >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nmrg mailing list >>> nmrg@irtf.org >>> https://www.irtf.org/mailman/listinfo/nmrg >=20 >=20 From nobody Sun May 25 20:46:00 2014 Return-Path: X-Original-To: nmrg@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: nmrg@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id E0E811A044B for ; Sun, 25 May 2014 20:45:59 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -0.101 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-0.101 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_20=-0.001, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id G6NFWCIeNs9d for ; Sun, 25 May 2014 20:45:58 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail-pa0-x230.google.com (mail-pa0-x230.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:400e:c03::230]) (using TLSv1 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-RC4-SHA (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id B47D71A0448 for ; Sun, 25 May 2014 20:45:58 -0700 (PDT) Received: by mail-pa0-f48.google.com with SMTP id rd3so6951311pab.35 for ; Sun, 25 May 2014 20:45:55 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20120113; h=message-id:date:from:organization:user-agent:mime-version:to :subject:references:in-reply-to:content-type :content-transfer-encoding; bh=8ZBiqZOKuLpW3SAImPiV9EMsc7F+m1AEEjWCZHA48jk=; b=wmoXoeGb1w11p9AXE3oeoYFJMU6AMPf8m3uAPdsxrTMYD8f1iDIKu17P+rkXDzY+n4 PAh8z5Kvs0HQ7aq3kUlJV3xL11Qu5FEl78ZJTKGdiNMjOCIk0cA4JbUAvX1ztSHyYQoo X1ELFOSJNV2Zphm2xUI1ktwdVpOGa+fwF4bt/0pINQ9BbB33wpikAPBbbJ3OAwjfTudQ zDXg/kkD7l0NKg/KYNeXshNaowLfNV2BKqlq/oUivwOSjkBzz/ZTmBfcGpIvTm6MaI3a n2wWaeQFOeo9eFGV8DNguU/sara8lC91onu21nFx2adXXKHvcMSmktyFHgmiROkwkzKT 04xw== X-Received: by 10.68.103.165 with SMTP id fx5mr24943365pbb.118.1401075955915; Sun, 25 May 2014 20:45:55 -0700 (PDT) Received: from [192.168.178.23] (6.192.69.111.dynamic.snap.net.nz. [111.69.192.6]) by mx.google.com with ESMTPSA id i10sm51675246pat.36.2014.05.25.20.45.53 for (version=TLSv1 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-RC4-SHA bits=128/128); Sun, 25 May 2014 20:45:55 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <5382B8F1.6050605@gmail.com> Date: Mon, 26 May 2014 15:45:53 +1200 From: Brian E Carpenter Organization: University of Auckland User-Agent: Thunderbird 2.0.0.6 (Windows/20070728) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: draft-behringer-autonomic-bootstrap@tools.ietf.org, nmrg@irtf.org References: <20140509132424.19121.91782.idtracker@ietfa.amsl.com> In-Reply-To: <20140509132424.19121.91782.idtracker@ietfa.amsl.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Archived-At: http://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/nmrg/ZWsrYlMLfp9-a8qwm3MtXPhDNKQ Subject: Re: [nmrg] I-D Action: draft-behringer-autonomic-bootstrap-00.txt X-BeenThere: nmrg@irtf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: Network Management Research Group discussion list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 26 May 2014 03:46:00 -0000 Hi, Here are a few comments on the bootstrap use case: > On the side of the new network element, an unskilled person should be > able to connect the device following a simple cabling scheme, perhaps > only supplying power to a wireless device. Once connected, the > device must be powered on. Or not even that! Consider a wireless IoT device with solar power. All you do is take it out of its box and Blu-Tack it in place. No cable, no battery, no switch. > While > authorization of the UDI is required, it can be further automated, > for example providing a white list of valid device UDIs. The actual > process of enrolment and bootstrapping should be zero-touch for the > operator. What about the BlueTooth approach, where a device is white-listed by a manual button-push during a short window of opportunity? There are scenarios where that is acceptable (I have just unwrapped a new device and want to validate it as part of my network). > For a fully secure > process, the device requires an IEEE 802.1AR [IDevID] credential. Do we really want to specify the exact solution in a use case? I think the reference should just be an example here. More important, I don't think this is optional. Authentication of every device is a MUST. Otherwise, the NSA can just add a spybot to any network it finds interesting. > All > communications are link local You state that as a fact, and of course it must be true at the start of bootstrapping, but it creates a requirement: every physical link (including wireless domain) must include at least one proxy. Then you say > The neighbouring device acts as a > proxy OK, but there's another thing: which is "the" neighbour on a link? Or could any neighbour act as a proxy? Also, do the proxies need their own use case? > A new device exchanges data through the neighboring proxy with two > entities: > > o A "Registrar" device, acting as the trust anchor of the domain. So will you do a separate use case for autonomic configuration of the registrar in the case of human-free networks? I touched on that in the homenet use case, but without enough detail. > o A cloud service provided by the vendor to facilitate autonomic > mechanisms. Surely that is not always needed? Don't you want disconnected networks to be autonomic too? > Intent is not required for this autonomic process. That surprises me. Isn't it possible that such questions as crypto strength, and whether or not strict privacy is required, might be delivered as intent? > 7. Security Considerations I think this is a bit relaxed. Enrolment is a critical event in the security history of a site, and wireless networks are especially vulnerable. Also, you should perhaps note that privacy may require enrolments to be conducted completely secretly, with no visible ID escaping. Brian