From nobody Fri Jun 6 03:07:49 2014 Return-Path: X-Original-To: nmrg@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: nmrg@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 73ED41A044A for ; Fri, 6 Jun 2014 03:07:47 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -10.152 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-10.152 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, RP_MATCHES_RCVD=-0.651, SPF_PASS=-0.001, USER_IN_DEF_DKIM_WL=-7.5] autolearn=ham Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id NOb95GT-JB-Q for ; Fri, 6 Jun 2014 03:07:45 -0700 (PDT) Received: from aer-iport-2.cisco.com (aer-iport-2.cisco.com [173.38.203.52]) (using TLSv1 with cipher RC4-SHA (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 61A041A0432 for ; Fri, 6 Jun 2014 03:07:45 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/simple; d=cisco.com; i=@cisco.com; l=3574; q=dns/txt; s=iport; t=1402049259; x=1403258859; h=message-id:date:from:mime-version:to:cc:subject: references:in-reply-to:content-transfer-encoding; bh=o3Aphe0A6OyoyryOBMjn1qZUvLCwvZlML/9lh3RUh4w=; b=J2LPlXUtGNzyr0nYME/zPK253t92qmXv7eFT5Ilbf/ilKHlYhILB9fGt oJsmD4TeubvfURH7oyCxgbMWCE4GlcAjbzalsplH5mIkxus2oqbUfZlRU k7cB2JaX3uKC8ClPJ9OHJW3Uv20J5YsJSJzKxgDuoAeUTFCbqFm1zR55o 4=; X-IronPort-AV: E=Sophos;i="4.98,988,1392163200"; d="scan'208";a="75801047" Received: from aer-iport-nat.cisco.com (HELO aer-core-2.cisco.com) ([173.38.203.22]) by aer-iport-2.cisco.com with ESMTP; 06 Jun 2014 10:07:37 +0000 Received: from [10.60.67.91] (ams-bclaise-89110.cisco.com [10.60.67.91]) by aer-core-2.cisco.com (8.14.5/8.14.5) with ESMTP id s56A7a7E007478; Fri, 6 Jun 2014 10:07:37 GMT Message-ID: <539192E8.7020905@cisco.com> Date: Fri, 06 Jun 2014 12:07:36 +0200 From: Benoit Claise User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 6.1; WOW64; rv:24.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/24.5.0 MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Brian E Carpenter , "Michael Behringer (mbehring)" References: <53727BA7.7040307@gmail.com> <53740EE7.8060504@gmail.com> <3AA7118E69D7CD4BA3ECD5716BAF28DF210A0975@xmb-rcd-x14.cisco.com> <53751E0F.20902@gmail.com> In-Reply-To: <53751E0F.20902@gmail.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Archived-At: http://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/nmrg/e58cYplbYziLdyM6SlZraA_AqvA Cc: "nmrg@irtf.org" Subject: Re: [nmrg] IETF BOF proposal on autonomic networking use cases (better link) X-BeenThere: nmrg@irtf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: Network Management Research Group discussion list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 06 Jun 2014 10:07:47 -0000 On 15/05/2014 22:05, Brian E Carpenter wrote: > On 15/05/2014 23:25, Michael Behringer (mbehring) wrote: >> Brian, Jefferson, >> >> I really think we should get as many use cases as possible. The more we have, the easier it will be to see patterns in communication, policy and other requirements. > I completely agree. If you look at the RTCweb use cases draft, > it contains 15 distinct use cases, from which they extracted 36 > separate requirements. If we have too many use cases to fit into > one BOF, that would be an excellent result! One of the issues with many use cases is: where do you draw the line between what is an AN use cases and what is not? There is so many features that have an AN aspect. Should all AN use cases follow the design goals in http://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-irtf-nmrg-autonomic-network-definitions-00? If yes, then you guys should really spend some time finishing up this work. This draft has not been updated for 6 months. Regards, Benoit > > Brian > >> Potential use case authors: Make sure you highlight why distribution of intelligence is preferred over a centralised solution. We will have to answer many questions on "why not just centralise this functionality?", "Why do we need this functionality?". So it is important to bring out the advantages of an autonomic approach. >> >> Who else is thinking of contributing a use case? >> >> Michael >> >> >>> -----Original Message----- >>> From: nmrg [mailto:nmrg-bounces@irtf.org] On Behalf Of Brian E Carpenter >>> Sent: 15 May 2014 02:49 >>> To: Jéferson Campos Nobre >>> Cc: nmrg@irtf.org >>> Subject: Re: [nmrg] IETF BOF proposal on autonomic networking use cases >>> (better link) >>> >>> Hi, >>> >>> Well, firstly, the BOF is not approved yet and we will not get a decision until >>> about June 13. >>> >>> But of course it would be great to have more use cases published. >>> At the moment we've timed the proposed agenda for a total of 4 cases, and >>> if we get too many we may have to limit the time. >>> >>> Personally I think that a measurement use case would be very interesting, >>> because it's a bit different from traditional network management actions. >>> >>> Regards >>> Brian >>> >>> On 15/05/2014 12:01, Jéferson Campos Nobre wrote: >>>> Hi Brian. >>>> Is it still possible to add use cases for presentation at the BOF? >>>> Lisandro and I are working in an draft about autonomic control of >>>> measurement probes which is based on the material presented at the >>>> 31st and 32nd NMRG meetings. The draft should be finished in a couple >>>> of weeks. >>>> Thank you. >>>> Best. >>>> >>>> Jéferson Campos Nobre >>>> PhD Student >>>> Computer Networks Group - Institute of Informatics Federal University >>>> of Rio Grande do Sul http://www.inf.ufrgs.br/~jcnobre >>>> >>>> On Tue, May 13, 2014 at 1:08 PM, Brian E Carpenter >>>> wrote: >>>>> http://trac.tools.ietf.org/bof/trac/wiki/WikiStart#UCANproposal >>>>> >>>>> Discussion here, and further use case documents, both very welcome. >>>>> >>>>> Brian >>>>> >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> nmrg mailing list >>>>> nmrg@irtf.org >>>>> https://www.irtf.org/mailman/listinfo/nmrg >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nmrg mailing list >>> nmrg@irtf.org >>> https://www.irtf.org/mailman/listinfo/nmrg > _______________________________________________ > nmrg mailing list > nmrg@irtf.org > https://www.irtf.org/mailman/listinfo/nmrg From nobody Fri Jun 6 03:36:08 2014 Return-Path: X-Original-To: nmrg@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: nmrg@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5DCC81A0456 for ; Fri, 6 Jun 2014 03:36:06 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -10.152 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-10.152 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, RP_MATCHES_RCVD=-0.651, SPF_PASS=-0.001, USER_IN_DEF_DKIM_WL=-7.5] autolearn=ham Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id z9NKYzK4FvoJ for ; Fri, 6 Jun 2014 03:36:05 -0700 (PDT) Received: from aer-iport-2.cisco.com (aer-iport-2.cisco.com [173.38.203.52]) (using TLSv1 with cipher RC4-SHA (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id A70631A044B for ; Fri, 6 Jun 2014 03:36:04 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/simple; d=cisco.com; i=@cisco.com; l=1597; q=dns/txt; s=iport; t=1402050958; x=1403260558; h=message-id:date:from:mime-version:to:cc:subject: references:in-reply-to:content-transfer-encoding; bh=lQNJwKMFHgtwnkSo7zCbqsay357+ECsDlmx1N6vrsuI=; b=l8cxZ8Z8yxYJmcxZWzg+BaE35GdWlNzvHBSV5++RWWA8v5aqFuEtsXqB M2tmxL8iT7G15LWaF/PMkA2SgwqyXQQ3XR6wYIOVMk612bEi7+xCydJBl bUIuGduG3suNPUHCpo1mzUDAnq8IG6v3ItdRUVokCYjF2pRQ/gjM1KKyI c=; X-IronPort-AV: E=Sophos;i="4.98,988,1392163200"; d="scan'208";a="75822827" Received: from aer-iport-nat.cisco.com (HELO aer-core-3.cisco.com) ([173.38.203.22]) by aer-iport-2.cisco.com with ESMTP; 06 Jun 2014 10:35:56 +0000 Received: from [10.60.67.91] (ams-bclaise-89110.cisco.com [10.60.67.91]) by aer-core-3.cisco.com (8.14.5/8.14.5) with ESMTP id s56AZuxv000788; Fri, 6 Jun 2014 10:35:56 GMT Message-ID: <5391998C.7010606@cisco.com> Date: Fri, 06 Jun 2014 12:35:56 +0200 From: Benoit Claise User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 6.1; WOW64; rv:24.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/24.5.0 MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Brian E Carpenter , "Michael Behringer (mbehring)" References: <3AA7118E69D7CD4BA3ECD5716BAF28DF210A0A1F@xmb-rcd-x14.cisco.com> <53751F4C.6050606@gmail.com> In-Reply-To: <53751F4C.6050606@gmail.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Archived-At: http://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/nmrg/du6Dxp6cejlzbK8yZSWaRk39DoU Cc: "nmrg@irtf.org" Subject: Re: [nmrg] Proposed Description for UCAN BoF X-BeenThere: nmrg@irtf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: Network Management Research Group discussion list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 06 Jun 2014 10:36:06 -0000 On 15/05/2014 22:10, Brian E Carpenter wrote: > Michael, > > Don't you see the description at > http://trac.tools.ietf.org/bof/trac/wiki/WikiStart#UCANproposal ? > Browser refresh needed? > > However, your text would be a useful addition I think. If you guys think so, update the BoF description. Regards, B. > > Regards > Brian > > On 15/05/2014 23:52, Michael Behringer (mbehring) wrote: >> On the wiki (http://trac.tools.ietf.org/bof/trac/wiki/WikiStart#TimeframeIETF90Toronto) we don't have a description yet for the BoF we applied for. Let me propose here what I have in mind, for discussion: >> >> -- >> Autonomic Networking focuses on self-management of network elements. An autonomic function works in a distributed way across various network elements, allowing however central guidance and reporting. Autonomic functions already exist today, for example IGP routing protocols such as OSPF. However, all such functions have their own discovery, messaging and security mechanisms. >> >> This BoF collects and analyses use cases for Autonomic Networking. The goal is to find commonalities between various use cases, to be able to determine generic requirements for Autonomic Networking functions and to conclude whether there is scope for a common, generic Autonomic Networking Infrastructure for all autonomic functions. >> -- >> >> What do others want to get out of this BoF? Please provide input! >> >> Michael >> > _______________________________________________ > nmrg mailing list > nmrg@irtf.org > https://www.irtf.org/mailman/listinfo/nmrg > From nobody Fri Jun 6 08:24:49 2014 Return-Path: X-Original-To: nmrg@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: nmrg@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 863D51A01C3 for ; Fri, 6 Jun 2014 08:24:40 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -15.152 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-15.152 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_HI=-5, RP_MATCHES_RCVD=-0.651, SPF_PASS=-0.001, USER_IN_DEF_DKIM_WL=-7.5] autolearn=ham Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id RMLVhmVIi6ZO for ; Fri, 6 Jun 2014 08:24:34 -0700 (PDT) Received: from rcdn-iport-6.cisco.com 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d="scan'208";a="331148703" Received: from rcdn-core-4.cisco.com ([173.37.93.155]) by rcdn-iport-6.cisco.com with ESMTP; 06 Jun 2014 15:24:17 +0000 Received: from xhc-rcd-x10.cisco.com (xhc-rcd-x10.cisco.com [173.37.183.84]) by rcdn-core-4.cisco.com (8.14.5/8.14.5) with ESMTP id s56FOHaM000737 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=AES128-SHA bits=128 verify=FAIL); Fri, 6 Jun 2014 15:24:17 GMT Received: from xmb-rcd-x14.cisco.com ([169.254.4.39]) by xhc-rcd-x10.cisco.com ([173.37.183.84]) with mapi id 14.03.0123.003; Fri, 6 Jun 2014 10:24:17 -0500 From: "Michael Behringer (mbehring)" To: "Benoit Claise (bclaise)" , Brian E Carpenter Thread-Topic: [nmrg] IETF BOF proposal on autonomic networking use cases (better link) Thread-Index: AQHPb9DXbhGG9y0xnkywojSDQ4ibp5tBIwKAgAA6H2CAAQkfgIAh7DcAgAAEKPA= Date: Fri, 6 Jun 2014 15:24:16 +0000 Message-ID: <3AA7118E69D7CD4BA3ECD5716BAF28DF21B9B4E2@xmb-rcd-x14.cisco.com> References: <53727BA7.7040307@gmail.com> <53740EE7.8060504@gmail.com> <3AA7118E69D7CD4BA3ECD5716BAF28DF210A0975@xmb-rcd-x14.cisco.com> <53751E0F.20902@gmail.com> <539192E8.7020905@cisco.com> In-Reply-To: <539192E8.7020905@cisco.com> Accept-Language: en-GB, en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-originating-ip: [10.55.238.133] Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 MIME-Version: 1.0 Archived-At: http://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/nmrg/XxpaplkWob6uKMC9OvrPcXwuBvc Cc: "nmrg@irtf.org" Subject: Re: [nmrg] IETF BOF proposal on autonomic networking use cases (better link) X-BeenThere: nmrg@irtf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: Network Management Research Group discussion list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 06 Jun 2014 15:24:40 -0000 QmVub2l0LCANCg0KV2Ugd2lsbCBoYXZlIGFub3RoZXIgdmVyc2lvbiBvdXQgb2YgdGhlIGRlZmlu aXRpb25zIGRyYWZ0IGJlZm9yZSB0aGUgSUVURi4gWW91IGFyZSByaWdodCwgdGhpcyBpcyB0aGUg 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Cj4gPj4+Pj4gICAgIEJyaWFuDQo+ID4+Pj4+DQo+ID4+Pj4+IF9fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19f X19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fDQo+ID4+Pj4+IG5tcmcgbWFpbGluZyBsaXN0DQo+ ID4+Pj4+IG5tcmdAaXJ0Zi5vcmcNCj4gPj4+Pj4gaHR0cHM6Ly93d3cuaXJ0Zi5vcmcvbWFpbG1h bi9saXN0aW5mby9ubXJnDQo+ID4+PiBfX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19f X19fX19fX19fX19fXw0KPiA+Pj4gbm1yZyBtYWlsaW5nIGxpc3QNCj4gPj4+IG5tcmdAaXJ0Zi5v cmcNCj4gPj4+IGh0dHBzOi8vd3d3LmlydGYub3JnL21haWxtYW4vbGlzdGluZm8vbm1yZw0KPiA+ IF9fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fDQo+ID4gbm1y ZyBtYWlsaW5nIGxpc3QNCj4gPiBubXJnQGlydGYub3JnDQo+ID4gaHR0cHM6Ly93d3cuaXJ0Zi5v cmcvbWFpbG1hbi9saXN0aW5mby9ubXJnDQoNCg== From nobody Fri Jun 6 08:31:52 2014 Return-Path: X-Original-To: nmrg@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: nmrg@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0E9851A0173 for ; Fri, 6 Jun 2014 08:31:52 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -10.152 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-10.152 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, RP_MATCHES_RCVD=-0.651, SPF_PASS=-0.001, USER_IN_DEF_DKIM_WL=-7.5] autolearn=ham Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id vZNSxpVZZcgj for ; Fri, 6 Jun 2014 08:31:49 -0700 (PDT) Received: from aer-iport-4.cisco.com (aer-iport-4.cisco.com [173.38.203.54]) (using TLSv1 with cipher RC4-SHA (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 564B41A0160 for ; Fri, 6 Jun 2014 08:31:49 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/simple; d=cisco.com; i=@cisco.com; l=4482; q=dns/txt; s=iport; t=1402068703; x=1403278303; h=message-id:date:from:mime-version:to:cc:subject: references:in-reply-to:content-transfer-encoding; bh=SzFnqtQbuqSjGal3gPyTPxJ/5HrWuMguZHf7fMX2yIw=; b=ervQOeLkIpnECDuusC2bB2oIQyJR7rCH6KFx/6+rqmjeBrvSB/vKznY6 YOkbamfFRAiTSWV7+XpZslI3fKyYWFE8799jYEkEp/Z+5HYIJDCJwPV4D k+bxh+ToVxFHrkpA6zEBjLs0d8FJIRR7huWCzXPG77VRLhBml80vCrTux A=; X-IronPort-AV: E=Sophos;i="4.98,989,1392163200"; d="scan'208";a="71944681" Received: from aer-iport-nat.cisco.com (HELO aer-core-3.cisco.com) ([173.38.203.22]) by aer-iport-4.cisco.com with ESMTP; 06 Jun 2014 15:31:40 +0000 Received: from [10.60.67.91] (ams-bclaise-89110.cisco.com [10.60.67.91]) by aer-core-3.cisco.com (8.14.5/8.14.5) with ESMTP id s56FVeN6015280; Fri, 6 Jun 2014 15:31:40 GMT Message-ID: <5391DEDC.3080909@cisco.com> Date: Fri, 06 Jun 2014 17:31:40 +0200 From: Benoit Claise User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 6.1; WOW64; rv:24.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/24.5.0 MIME-Version: 1.0 To: "Michael Behringer (mbehring)" , Brian E Carpenter References: <53727BA7.7040307@gmail.com> <53740EE7.8060504@gmail.com> <3AA7118E69D7CD4BA3ECD5716BAF28DF210A0975@xmb-rcd-x14.cisco.com> <53751E0F.20902@gmail.com> <539192E8.7020905@cisco.com> <3AA7118E69D7CD4BA3ECD5716BAF28DF21B9B4E2@xmb-rcd-x14.cisco.com> In-Reply-To: <3AA7118E69D7CD4BA3ECD5716BAF28DF21B9B4E2@xmb-rcd-x14.cisco.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Archived-At: http://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/nmrg/5oPVIYALOHEgEXzFMAswRVnL8pw Cc: "nmrg@irtf.org" Subject: Re: [nmrg] IETF BOF proposal on autonomic networking use cases (better link) X-BeenThere: nmrg@irtf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: Network Management Research Group discussion list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 06 Jun 2014 15:31:52 -0000 On 6/06/2014 17:24, Michael Behringer (mbehring) wrote: > Benoit, > > We will have another version out of the definitions draft before the IETF. You are right, this is the cornerstone of the work and needs to be updated with recent discussions and thoughts. This will also be on the agenda for the NMRG. Then make sure NMRG is at the beginning of the week, basically before the BoF. Regards, Benoit > > > Michael > >> -----Original Message----- >> From: Benoit Claise (bclaise) >> Sent: 06 June 2014 12:08 >> To: Brian E Carpenter; Michael Behringer (mbehring) >> Cc: nmrg@irtf.org >> Subject: Re: [nmrg] IETF BOF proposal on autonomic networking use cases >> (better link) >> >> On 15/05/2014 22:05, Brian E Carpenter wrote: >>> On 15/05/2014 23:25, Michael Behringer (mbehring) wrote: >>>> Brian, Jefferson, >>>> >>>> I really think we should get as many use cases as possible. The more we >> have, the easier it will be to see patterns in communication, policy and >> other requirements. >>> I completely agree. If you look at the RTCweb use cases draft, it >>> contains 15 distinct use cases, from which they extracted 36 separate >>> requirements. If we have too many use cases to fit into one BOF, that >>> would be an excellent result! >> One of the issues with many use cases is: where do you draw the line >> between what is an AN use cases and what is not? >> There is so many features that have an AN aspect. >> Should all AN use cases follow the design goals in >> http://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-irtf-nmrg-autonomic-network-definitions- >> 00? >> If yes, then you guys should really spend some time finishing up this work. >> This draft has not been updated for 6 months. >> >> Regards, Benoit >> >>> Brian >>> >>>> Potential use case authors: Make sure you highlight why distribution of >> intelligence is preferred over a centralised solution. We will have to answer >> many questions on "why not just centralise this functionality?", "Why do we >> need this functionality?". So it is important to bring out the advantages of >> an autonomic approach. >>>> Who else is thinking of contributing a use case? >>>> >>>> Michael >>>> >>>> >>>>> -----Original Message----- >>>>> From: nmrg [mailto:nmrg-bounces@irtf.org] On Behalf Of Brian E >>>>> Carpenter >>>>> Sent: 15 May 2014 02:49 >>>>> To: Jéferson Campos Nobre >>>>> Cc: nmrg@irtf.org >>>>> Subject: Re: [nmrg] IETF BOF proposal on autonomic networking use >>>>> cases (better link) >>>>> >>>>> Hi, >>>>> >>>>> Well, firstly, the BOF is not approved yet and we will not get a >>>>> decision until about June 13. >>>>> >>>>> But of course it would be great to have more use cases published. >>>>> At the moment we've timed the proposed agenda for a total of 4 >>>>> cases, and if we get too many we may have to limit the time. >>>>> >>>>> Personally I think that a measurement use case would be very >>>>> interesting, because it's a bit different from traditional network >> management actions. >>>>> Regards >>>>> Brian >>>>> >>>>> On 15/05/2014 12:01, Jéferson Campos Nobre wrote: >>>>>> Hi Brian. >>>>>> Is it still possible to add use cases for presentation at the BOF? >>>>>> Lisandro and I are working in an draft about autonomic control of >>>>>> measurement probes which is based on the material presented at the >>>>>> 31st and 32nd NMRG meetings. The draft should be finished in a >>>>>> couple of weeks. >>>>>> Thank you. >>>>>> Best. >>>>>> >>>>>> Jéferson Campos Nobre >>>>>> PhD Student >>>>>> Computer Networks Group - Institute of Informatics Federal >>>>>> University of Rio Grande do Sul http://www.inf.ufrgs.br/~jcnobre >>>>>> >>>>>> On Tue, May 13, 2014 at 1:08 PM, Brian E Carpenter >>>>>> wrote: >>>>>>> http://trac.tools.ietf.org/bof/trac/wiki/WikiStart#UCANproposal >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Discussion here, and further use case documents, both very welcome. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Brian >>>>>>> >>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>> nmrg mailing list >>>>>>> nmrg@irtf.org >>>>>>> https://www.irtf.org/mailman/listinfo/nmrg >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> nmrg mailing list >>>>> nmrg@irtf.org >>>>> https://www.irtf.org/mailman/listinfo/nmrg >>> _______________________________________________ >>> nmrg mailing list >>> nmrg@irtf.org >>> https://www.irtf.org/mailman/listinfo/nmrg From nobody Fri Jun 6 08:36:13 2014 Return-Path: X-Original-To: nmrg@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: nmrg@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 947E01A015C for ; Fri, 6 Jun 2014 08:36:07 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -15.152 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-15.152 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_HI=-5, RP_MATCHES_RCVD=-0.651, SPF_PASS=-0.001, USER_IN_DEF_DKIM_WL=-7.5] autolearn=ham Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id qbZEcuHvzRRm for ; Fri, 6 Jun 2014 08:36:03 -0700 (PDT) Received: from rcdn-iport-8.cisco.com (rcdn-iport-8.cisco.com [173.37.86.79]) (using TLSv1 with cipher RC4-SHA (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 823771A01E0 for ; Fri, 6 Jun 2014 08:36:01 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/simple; d=cisco.com; i=@cisco.com; l=7008; q=dns/txt; s=iport; t=1402068955; x=1403278555; h=from:to:cc:subject:date:message-id:references: in-reply-to:content-transfer-encoding:mime-version; bh=B3nXhMIDiWAA9uVr/zbj35VKlsNXhxq098Cb2UIoG9w=; b=VmqyeTPcL1M4IEffI67QLEbwnYrGB2vdVNJGwxiV8DJONoSK/BmO3oCx OoyAKRSpJ49DKnmk51Gvw1iB059nUvRdY2NlbaYEZHjkYeTMvFOhU2Dvp guxR6m/KszLLGQZH1xaK6XeFLyRPCRO38569tHhapu8dDlTs9v3/mDHb9 0=; X-IronPort-Anti-Spam-Filtered: true X-IronPort-Anti-Spam-Result: AuYLAPzekVOtJA2F/2dsb2JhbABZFoJ3UlYDgmyoAgUBkU+HPAEZbRZ1hAMBAQEDAQEBASAROgsFBwQCAQgRBAEBAQICBh0DAgICHwYLFAEICAIEAQ0FCBOIEwMJCA2tb5kjDYYIF4EqhDODYYMJgT8MJhYbBwaCbzaBFgSYHIM7hwKFBgOFdIM8bIECQQ X-IronPort-AV: E=Sophos;i="4.98,989,1392163200"; d="scan'208";a="331145948" Received: from alln-core-11.cisco.com ([173.36.13.133]) by rcdn-iport-8.cisco.com with ESMTP; 06 Jun 2014 15:35:54 +0000 Received: from xhc-aln-x15.cisco.com (xhc-aln-x15.cisco.com [173.36.12.89]) by alln-core-11.cisco.com (8.14.5/8.14.5) with ESMTP id s56FZr5Y017892 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=AES128-SHA bits=128 verify=FAIL); Fri, 6 Jun 2014 15:35:53 GMT Received: from xmb-rcd-x14.cisco.com ([169.254.4.39]) by xhc-aln-x15.cisco.com ([173.36.12.89]) with mapi id 14.03.0123.003; Fri, 6 Jun 2014 10:35:53 -0500 From: "Michael Behringer (mbehring)" To: "Benoit Claise (bclaise)" , Brian E Carpenter Thread-Topic: [nmrg] IETF BOF proposal on autonomic networking use cases (better link) Thread-Index: AQHPb9DXbhGG9y0xnkywojSDQ4ibp5tBIwKAgAA6H2CAAQkfgIAh7DcAgAAEKPCAAFZjAP//rRLA Date: Fri, 6 Jun 2014 15:35:52 +0000 Message-ID: <3AA7118E69D7CD4BA3ECD5716BAF28DF21B9B531@xmb-rcd-x14.cisco.com> References: <53727BA7.7040307@gmail.com> <53740EE7.8060504@gmail.com> <3AA7118E69D7CD4BA3ECD5716BAF28DF210A0975@xmb-rcd-x14.cisco.com> <53751E0F.20902@gmail.com> <539192E8.7020905@cisco.com> <3AA7118E69D7CD4BA3ECD5716BAF28DF21B9B4E2@xmb-rcd-x14.cisco.com> <5391DEDC.3080909@cisco.com> In-Reply-To: <5391DEDC.3080909@cisco.com> Accept-Language: en-GB, en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-originating-ip: [10.55.238.133] Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 MIME-Version: 1.0 Archived-At: http://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/nmrg/zgtk4aUwGTnYVF5iqG4HDfvX8pY Cc: "nmrg@irtf.org" Subject: Re: [nmrg] IETF BOF proposal on autonomic networking use cases (better link) X-BeenThere: nmrg@irtf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: Network Management Research Group discussion list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 06 Jun 2014 15:36:07 -0000 PiAtLS0tLU9yaWdpbmFsIE1lc3NhZ2UtLS0tLQ0KPiBGcm9tOiBCZW5vaXQgQ2xhaXNlIChiY2xh aXNlKQ0KPiBTZW50OiAwNiBKdW5lIDIwMTQgMTc6MzINCj4gVG86IE1pY2hhZWwgQmVocmluZ2Vy IChtYmVocmluZyk7IEJyaWFuIEUgQ2FycGVudGVyDQo+IENjOiBubXJnQGlydGYub3JnDQo+IFN1 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PiAgICAgIEJyaWFuDQo+ID4+Pj4+Pj4NCj4gPj4+Pj4+PiBfX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19f X19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fXw0KPiA+Pj4+Pj4+IG5tcmcgbWFpbGluZyBsaXN0DQo+ ID4+Pj4+Pj4gbm1yZ0BpcnRmLm9yZw0KPiA+Pj4+Pj4+IGh0dHBzOi8vd3d3LmlydGYub3JnL21h aWxtYW4vbGlzdGluZm8vbm1yZw0KPiA+Pj4+PiBfX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19f X19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fXw0KPiA+Pj4+PiBubXJnIG1haWxpbmcgbGlzdA0KPiA+Pj4+PiBu bXJnQGlydGYub3JnDQo+ID4+Pj4+IGh0dHBzOi8vd3d3LmlydGYub3JnL21haWxtYW4vbGlzdGlu Zm8vbm1yZw0KPiA+Pj4gX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19f X19fX18NCj4gPj4+IG5tcmcgbWFpbGluZyBsaXN0DQo+ID4+PiBubXJnQGlydGYub3JnDQo+ID4+ PiBodHRwczovL3d3dy5pcnRmLm9yZy9tYWlsbWFuL2xpc3RpbmZvL25tcmcNCg0K From nobody Fri Jun 6 10:10:52 2014 Return-Path: X-Original-To: nmrg@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: nmrg@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7FF041A0178 for ; Fri, 6 Jun 2014 10:10:50 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -0.302 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-0.302 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, HELO_EQ_BR=0.955, HOST_EQ_BR=1.295, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, RP_MATCHES_RCVD=-0.651, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id SfpnNf3_cjS0 for ; Fri, 6 Jun 2014 10:10:48 -0700 (PDT) Received: from puma.inf.ufrgs.br (puma.inf.ufrgs.br [143.54.11.5]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 850161A01A7 for ; Fri, 6 Jun 2014 10:10:47 -0700 (PDT) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by puma.inf.ufrgs.br (Postfix) with ESMTP id B6DC661E76; Fri, 6 Jun 2014 14:10:39 -0300 (BRT) Received: from [143.54.8.70] (unknown [143.54.8.70]) by puma.inf.ufrgs.br (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3D00061E59; Fri, 6 Jun 2014 14:10:36 -0300 (BRT) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 7.3 \(1878.2\)) From: Lisandro Zambenedetti Granville In-Reply-To: <3AA7118E69D7CD4BA3ECD5716BAF28DF21B9B531@xmb-rcd-x14.cisco.com> Date: Fri, 6 Jun 2014 14:10:36 -0300 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Message-Id: References: <53727BA7.7040307@gmail.com> <53740EE7.8060504@gmail.com> <3AA7118E69D7CD4BA3ECD5716BAF28DF210A0975@xmb-rcd-x14.cisco.com> <53751E0F.20902@gmail.com> <539192E8.7020905@cisco.com> <3AA7118E69D7CD4BA3ECD5716BAF28DF21B9B4E2@xmb-rcd-x14.cisco.com> <5391DEDC.3080909@cisco.com> <3AA7118E69D7CD4BA3ECD5716BAF28DF21B9B531@xmb-rcd-x14.cisco.com> To: "Michael Behringer (mbehring)" X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.1878.2) Archived-At: http://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/nmrg/_f4JIPULTs0C1jFaE4SjyrReK2k Cc: "nmrg@irtf.org" Subject: Re: [nmrg] IETF BOF proposal on autonomic networking use cases (better link) X-BeenThere: nmrg@irtf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: Network Management Research Group discussion list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 06 Jun 2014 17:10:50 -0000 >> You are right, this is the cornerstone of the work and needs to be = updated >> with recent discussions and thoughts. This will also be on the agenda = for the >> NMRG. >> Then make sure NMRG is at the beginning of the week, basically = before the >> BoF. >=20 > Absolutely! I've already expressed that wish to Lisandro, who has = passed it on to the agenda folks.=20 Which I confirm: the request has been posted in the agenda request. Lisandro >>>> -----Original Message----- >>>> From: Benoit Claise (bclaise) >>>> Sent: 06 June 2014 12:08 >>>> To: Brian E Carpenter; Michael Behringer (mbehring) >>>> Cc: nmrg@irtf.org >>>> Subject: Re: [nmrg] IETF BOF proposal on autonomic networking use >>>> cases (better link) >>>>=20 >>>> On 15/05/2014 22:05, Brian E Carpenter wrote: >>>>> On 15/05/2014 23:25, Michael Behringer (mbehring) wrote: >>>>>> Brian, Jefferson, >>>>>>=20 >>>>>> I really think we should get as many use cases as possible. The >>>>>> more we >>>> have, the easier it will be to see patterns in communication, = policy >>>> and other requirements. >>>>> I completely agree. If you look at the RTCweb use cases draft, it >>>>> contains 15 distinct use cases, from which they extracted 36 >>>>> separate requirements. If we have too many use cases to fit into = one >>>>> BOF, that would be an excellent result! >>>> One of the issues with many use cases is: where do you draw the = line >>>> between what is an AN use cases and what is not? >>>> There is so many features that have an AN aspect. >>>> Should all AN use cases follow the design goals in >>>> = http://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-irtf-nmrg-autonomic-network-definiti >>>> ons- >>>> 00? >>>> If yes, then you guys should really spend some time finishing up = this >> work. >>>> This draft has not been updated for 6 months. >>>>=20 >>>> Regards, Benoit >>>>=20 >>>>> Brian >>>>>=20 >>>>>> Potential use case authors: Make sure you highlight why >>>>>> distribution of >>>> intelligence is preferred over a centralised solution. We will have >>>> to answer many questions on "why not just centralise this >>>> functionality?", "Why do we need this functionality?". So it is >>>> important to bring out the advantages of an autonomic approach. >>>>>> Who else is thinking of contributing a use case? >>>>>>=20 >>>>>> Michael >>>>>>=20 >>>>>>=20 >>>>>>> -----Original Message----- >>>>>>> From: nmrg [mailto:nmrg-bounces@irtf.org] On Behalf Of Brian E >>>>>>> Carpenter >>>>>>> Sent: 15 May 2014 02:49 >>>>>>> To: J=E9ferson Campos Nobre >>>>>>> Cc: nmrg@irtf.org >>>>>>> Subject: Re: [nmrg] IETF BOF proposal on autonomic networking = use >>>>>>> cases (better link) >>>>>>>=20 >>>>>>> Hi, >>>>>>>=20 >>>>>>> Well, firstly, the BOF is not approved yet and we will not get a >>>>>>> decision until about June 13. >>>>>>>=20 >>>>>>> But of course it would be great to have more use cases = published. >>>>>>> At the moment we've timed the proposed agenda for a total of 4 >>>>>>> cases, and if we get too many we may have to limit the time. >>>>>>>=20 >>>>>>> Personally I think that a measurement use case would be very >>>>>>> interesting, because it's a bit different from traditional = network >>>> management actions. >>>>>>> Regards >>>>>>> Brian >>>>>>>=20 >>>>>>> On 15/05/2014 12:01, J=E9ferson Campos Nobre wrote: >>>>>>>> Hi Brian. >>>>>>>> Is it still possible to add use cases for presentation at the = BOF? >>>>>>>> Lisandro and I are working in an draft about autonomic control = of >>>>>>>> measurement probes which is based on the material presented at >>>>>>>> the 31st and 32nd NMRG meetings. The draft should be finished = in >>>>>>>> a couple of weeks. >>>>>>>> Thank you. >>>>>>>> Best. >>>>>>>>=20 >>>>>>>> J=E9ferson Campos Nobre >>>>>>>> PhD Student >>>>>>>> Computer Networks Group - Institute of Informatics Federal >>>>>>>> University of Rio Grande do Sul = http://www.inf.ufrgs.br/~jcnobre >>>>>>>>=20 >>>>>>>> On Tue, May 13, 2014 at 1:08 PM, Brian E Carpenter >>>>>>>> wrote: >>>>>>>>> = http://trac.tools.ietf.org/bof/trac/wiki/WikiStart#UCANproposal >>>>>>>>>=20 >>>>>>>>> Discussion here, and further use case documents, both very >> welcome. >>>>>>>>>=20 >>>>>>>>> Brian >>>>>>>>>=20 >>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>> nmrg mailing list >>>>>>>>> nmrg@irtf.org >>>>>>>>> https://www.irtf.org/mailman/listinfo/nmrg >>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>> nmrg mailing list >>>>>>> nmrg@irtf.org >>>>>>> https://www.irtf.org/mailman/listinfo/nmrg >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> nmrg mailing list >>>>> nmrg@irtf.org >>>>> https://www.irtf.org/mailman/listinfo/nmrg >=20 > _______________________________________________ > nmrg mailing list > nmrg@irtf.org > https://www.irtf.org/mailman/listinfo/nmrg From nobody Wed Jun 11 13:05:05 2014 Return-Path: X-Original-To: nmrg@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: nmrg@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 97DC41A0295 for ; Wed, 11 Jun 2014 13:05:03 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 6uDaN86DNrz2 for ; Wed, 11 Jun 2014 13:05:01 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail-pd0-x22e.google.com (mail-pd0-x22e.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:400e:c02::22e]) (using TLSv1 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-RC4-SHA (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id BC4301A0275 for ; Wed, 11 Jun 2014 13:05:01 -0700 (PDT) Received: by mail-pd0-f174.google.com with SMTP id y10so158831pdj.33 for ; Wed, 11 Jun 2014 13:05:01 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20120113; h=message-id:date:from:organization:user-agent:mime-version:to :subject:content-type:content-transfer-encoding; bh=msoaq4BqqIqUlB+yHJbD5vBGHRsOCgCWnNCHg5YUGC0=; b=oQuqkCcvw/LRTkEEZi5mZMSy+wYb43Rfbj4xpDsfvNgmaSYfVMPL61+7ubT2MDxlTc QkdMDAHd6Zr/VFNd0vwUKyapb+kuqgPxlMwg4f2JW/71V4ZJlRhCDCdJmUwG3PIR77qw +7mApfifUjcxJZxjSednwsnptQ6bCBDjHE2hz0QqEF2/63Cjnw4ptz4+aJvttDnZK6fB 9lxwTHtYQzKQt7dc0kNMVvcYipZ8SwV+0zapQGAwvCvdfFf2w4KseWUJkMsMP+yvPdGi CANCYqEJvxUa+T8gEX/yhT8ogO3nsyrlO7wskoE25HzmFaM29rlwgDan/DnAPb2KSl5j iozA== X-Received: by 10.68.171.229 with SMTP id ax5mr7685699pbc.125.1402517101488; Wed, 11 Jun 2014 13:05:01 -0700 (PDT) Received: from [192.168.178.23] (68.195.69.111.dynamic.snap.net.nz. [111.69.195.68]) by mx.google.com with ESMTPSA id wt6sm33818609pac.29.2014.06.11.13.04.59 for (version=TLSv1 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-RC4-SHA bits=128/128); Wed, 11 Jun 2014 13:05:00 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <5398B672.8050708@gmail.com> Date: Thu, 12 Jun 2014 08:05:06 +1200 From: Brian E Carpenter Organization: University of Auckland User-Agent: Thunderbird 2.0.0.6 (Windows/20070728) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: nmrg@irtf.org Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Archived-At: http://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/nmrg/TSgqOHvVXkD3oJAvILBKEzKBa-c Subject: [nmrg] [Fwd: New Non-WG Mailing List: Anima -- Autonomic Networking Integrated Model and Approach] X-BeenThere: nmrg@irtf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: Network Management Research Group discussion list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 11 Jun 2014 20:05:03 -0000 Please consider joining this IETF list soon, so that we can have a good discussion before Toronto. Brian -------- Original Message -------- Subject: New Non-WG Mailing List: Anima -- Autonomic Networking Integrated Model and Approach Date: Wed, 11 Jun 2014 12:44:55 -0700 From: IETF Secretariat Reply-To: ietf@ietf.org To: IETF Announcement List CC: brian.e.carpenter@gmail.com, anima@ietf.org A new IETF non-working group email list has been created. List address: anima@ietf.org Archive: http://www.ietf.org/mail-archive/web/anima/ To subscribe: https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/anima Purpose: The fundamental goal of Autonomic Networking (AN) is self-management, including self-configuration, self-optimization, self-healing and self-protection. The ANIMA list is for discussion of autonomic networking, including the following topics: - Definitions and gap analysis for AN - Use cases for AN - Common requirements for an autonomic infrastructure - Problem statement and preliminary ideas for possible protocol work For more details see the proposed UCAN BOF at http://trac.tools.ietf.org/bof/trac/wiki/WikiStart#UCANproposal For additional information, please contact the list administrators. From nobody Thu Jun 12 02:08:49 2014 Return-Path: X-Original-To: nmrg@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: nmrg@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id F0DCD1B279F for ; Thu, 12 Jun 2014 02:08:47 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -10.151 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-10.151 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RP_MATCHES_RCVD=-0.651, SPF_PASS=-0.001, USER_IN_DEF_DKIM_WL=-7.5] autolearn=ham Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id yugqbBuWUuBe for ; Thu, 12 Jun 2014 02:08:46 -0700 (PDT) Received: from aer-iport-1.cisco.com (aer-iport-1.cisco.com [173.38.203.51]) (using TLSv1 with cipher RC4-SHA (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 7F2151B279B for ; Thu, 12 Jun 2014 02:08:45 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/simple; d=cisco.com; i=@cisco.com; l=6279; q=dns/txt; s=iport; t=1402564126; x=1403773726; h=message-id:date:from:mime-version:to:subject:references: in-reply-to; bh=ekWWpGtlVE9ImKoeNQYLj7IcFFeA+6wNrIbE1MZeZl4=; b=HinGcpgVEAUJbUxxPfQGOL5thzrGN0f/oBnWrrOTnFhQYjD7e0QG4PAF eF2dfLDzujt2ZLYKfZ0Qr3dOuN5hDDDsz6awikInRdfEC9zhbdXJHwTeO dPiI54A6K0CFL+Au5EaL7L3dEdTu0zbaXazCLAraq9sqnlaSa1HA3YA4T k=; X-IronPort-Anti-Spam-Filtered: true X-IronPort-Anti-Spam-Result: AmsFANJsmVOtJssW/2dsb2JhbABag1+qJQEBAQEBAQUBmR4BgSB1hAMBAQEEbgYEDQQcAwECChYPCQMCAQIBOwIIBg0GAgEBFgGIJw3RSReFXIgdEQE/GAaEOwSaMoFDhTeMWIM+O4E5 X-IronPort-AV: E=Sophos; i="5.01,463,1400025600"; d="scan'208,217"; a="83540889" Received: from aer-iport-nat.cisco.com (HELO aer-core-3.cisco.com) ([173.38.203.22]) by aer-iport-1.cisco.com with ESMTP; 12 Jun 2014 09:08:44 +0000 Received: from [10.60.67.91] (ams-bclaise-89110.cisco.com [10.60.67.91]) by aer-core-3.cisco.com (8.14.5/8.14.5) with ESMTP id s5C98h7I003126 for ; Thu, 12 Jun 2014 09:08:43 GMT Message-ID: <53996E1B.7030100@cisco.com> Date: Thu, 12 Jun 2014 11:08:43 +0200 From: Benoit Claise User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 6.1; WOW64; rv:24.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/24.6.0 MIME-Version: 1.0 To: "nmrg@irtf.org" References: <53996DD0.8080604@cisco.com> In-Reply-To: <53996DD0.8080604@cisco.com> X-Forwarded-Message-Id: <53996DD0.8080604@cisco.com> Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="------------040007030402020404080407" Archived-At: http://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/nmrg/rbl5iENVTdjQwE-lCVLFG-3O3F4 Subject: [nmrg] Fwd: UCAN BoF approved X-BeenThere: nmrg@irtf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: Network Management Research Group discussion list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 12 Jun 2014 09:08:48 -0000 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --------------040007030402020404080407 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Dear all, Forwarded here, as - I don't like cross-posting - It relates to NMRG Let's have the discussion on the ANIMA mailing list. Regards, Benoit -------- Original Message -------- Subject: UCAN BoF approved Date: Thu, 12 Jun 2014 11:07:28 +0200 From: Benoit Claise To: anima@ietf.org Dear all, As the responsible AD, let me share the news: The IESG/IAB approved the UCAN BoF yesterday. Some concerns were discussed, which would need to addressed on this list, during the BoF preparation, or during the BoF: - What is the commonality between all the use cases? - How would the IETF attract people to work on this topic? For example, the operators. - Not sure there are universal solutions to the problem space, so it is not clear that we should work on the general rather than specific solutions - "100 people in the room is too optimistic", 30 is more realistic. I reduced it to 50 in the WIKI ACTION: this email should be forwarded to the homenet WG to attract more people IMO, a successful UCAN BoF would be: - You explain (draft-irtf-nmrg-autonomic-network-definitions , draft-irtf-nmrg-an-gap-analysis ) and you set up the stage on what AN is and what AN is not. The second part is equally important, when I see your BoF description "The fundamental goal of Autonomic Networking (AN) is self-management, including self-configuration, self-optimization, self-healing and self-protection. " - You provide the criteria for which use cases are in scope. - You review the different use cases, and try to classify them. - You try to deduce commonality/requirements between use cases or you decide on which specific pain points you want to work on. - You provide examples of protocol work you envision *This Bof is accepted, however this is a conditional acceptance*: BoF accepted at the condition that the proponents put some serious energy to finish the 2 NMRG drafts. Regards, Benoit --------------040007030402020404080407 Content-Type: text/html; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Dear all,

Forwarded here, as
 - I don't like cross-posting
 - It  relates to NMRG
Let's have the discussion on the ANIMA mailing list.

Regards, Benoit


-------- Original Message --------
Subject: UCAN BoF approved
Date: Thu, 12 Jun 2014 11:07:28 +0200
From: Benoit Claise <bclaise@cisco.com>
To: anima@ietf.org


Dear all,

As the responsible AD, let me share the news: The IESG/IAB approved the UCAN BoF yesterday.

Some concerns were discussed, which would need to addressed on this list, during the BoF preparation, or during the BoF:
- What is the commonality between all the use cases?
- How would the IETF attract people to work on this topic? For example, the operators.
- Not sure there are universal solutions to the problem space, so it is not clear that we should work on the general rather than specific solutions
- "100 people in the room is too optimistic", 30 is more realistic. I reduced it to 50 in the WIKI
    ACTION: this email should be forwarded to the homenet WG to attract more people

IMO, a successful UCAN BoF would be:
- You explain  (draft-irtf-nmrg-autonomic-network-definitions, draft-irtf-nmrg-an-gap-analysis) and you set up the stage on what AN is and what AN is not. The second part is equally important, when I see your BoF description "The fundamental goal of Autonomic Networking (AN) is self-management, including self-configuration, self-optimization, self-healing and self-protection. "
- You provide the criteria for which use cases are in scope.
- You review the different use cases, and try to classify them.
- You try to deduce commonality/requirements between use cases or you decide on which specific pain points you want to work on.
- You provide examples of protocol work you envision

This Bof is accepted, however this is a conditional acceptance: BoF accepted at the condition that the proponents put some serious energy to finish the 2 NMRG drafts.

Regards, Benoit


--------------040007030402020404080407-- From nobody Mon Jun 23 10:16:32 2014 Return-Path: X-Original-To: nmrg@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: nmrg@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 157151B2B81 for ; Mon, 23 Jun 2014 10:16:30 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.601 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.601 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW=-0.7, SPF_HELO_PASS=-0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 3e82XlsUeoQY for ; Mon, 23 Jun 2014 10:16:26 -0700 (PDT) Received: from na01-bl2-obe.outbound.protection.outlook.com (mail-bl2lp0212.outbound.protection.outlook.com [207.46.163.212]) (using TLSv1 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 5F3821B2B78 for ; Mon, 23 Jun 2014 10:16:26 -0700 (PDT) Received: from BN1PR05MB424.namprd05.prod.outlook.com (10.141.58.148) by BN1PR05MB421.namprd05.prod.outlook.com (10.141.58.139) with Microsoft SMTP Server (TLS) id 15.0.954.9; Mon, 23 Jun 2014 17:16:24 +0000 Received: from BN1PR05MB424.namprd05.prod.outlook.com ([169.254.8.141]) by BN1PR05MB424.namprd05.prod.outlook.com ([169.254.8.155]) with mapi id 15.00.0954.000; Mon, 23 Jun 2014 17:16:24 +0000 From: Dean Bogdanovic To: "nmrg@irtf.org" Thread-Topic: New Version Notification for draft-bogdanovic-nmrg-mobile-backhaul-use-case-00.txt Thread-Index: AQHPjwU9ycSPzT80e0apyQDBtOUIUg== Date: Mon, 23 Jun 2014 17:16:23 +0000 Message-ID: <07E06C7E-1B07-40D4-ADC4-90FFBF68319E@juniper.net> References: <20140623165625.20901.20523.idtracker@ietfa.amsl.com> Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-mailer: Apple Mail (2.1510) x-originating-ip: [66.129.241.10] x-microsoft-antispam: BL:0; ACTION:Default; RISK:Low; SCL:0; SPMLVL:NotSpam; PCL:0; RULEID: x-forefront-prvs: 025100C802 x-forefront-antispam-report: SFV:NSPM; SFS:(428001)(377454003)(377424004)(199002)(189002)(2473001)(81342001)(99396002)(46102001)(36756003)(83072002)(92726001)(57306001)(85852003)(92566001)(62966002)(77156001)(33656002)(16601075003)(21056001)(83322001)(66066001)(104166001)(76176999)(81542001)(77096002)(80022001)(50226001)(83716003)(15202345003)(20776003)(85306003)(77982001)(79102001)(16236675004)(89996001)(87286001)(64706001)(19580405001)(106116001)(74502001)(14971765001)(105586002)(15975445006)(86362001)(50986999)(76482001)(87936001)(19580395003)(95666004)(93916002)(31966008)(99286002)(4396001)(101416001)(82746002)(106356001)(2656002)(74662001)(104396001); DIR:OUT; SFP:; SCL:1; SRVR:BN1PR05MB421; H:BN1PR05MB424.namprd05.prod.outlook.com; FPR:; MLV:sfv; PTR:InfoNoRecords; A:1; MX:1; LANG:en; received-spf: None (: juniper.net does not designate permitted sender hosts) authentication-results: spf=none (sender IP is ) smtp.mailfrom=deanb@juniper.net; Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="_000_07E06C7E1B0740D4ADC490FFBF68319Ejunipernet_" MIME-Version: 1.0 X-OriginatorOrg: juniper.net Archived-At: http://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/nmrg/_vAro8IP4PdS8Bw8P5YIjk6f3vA Subject: [nmrg] Fwd: New Version Notification for draft-bogdanovic-nmrg-mobile-backhaul-use-case-00.txt X-BeenThere: nmrg@irtf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: Network Management Research Group discussion list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 23 Jun 2014 17:16:30 -0000 --_000_07E06C7E1B0740D4ADC490FFBF68319Ejunipernet_ Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Begin forwarded message: From: > Subject: New Version Notification for draft-bogdanovic-nmrg-mobile-backhaul= -use-case-00.txt Date: June 23, 2014 12:56:25 PM EDT To: Dean Bogdanovic >, Dean Bog= danovic > A new version of I-D, draft-bogdanovic-nmrg-mobile-backhaul-use-case-00.txt has been successfully submitted by Dean Bogdanovic and posted to the IETF repository. Name: draft-bogdanovic-nmrg-mobile-backhaul-use-case Revision: 00 Title: Autonomic Networking in mobile wireless backhaul Document date: 2014-06-23 Group: Individual Submission Pages: 9 URL: http://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-bogdanovic-nmrg-m= obile-backhaul-use-case-00.txt Status: https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-bogdanovic-nmrg-mobi= le-backhaul-use-case/ Htmlized: http://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-bogdanovic-nmrg-mobile-bac= khaul-use-case-00 Abstract: Mobile backhaul networks that utilize microwave technology in transport are suspicious to seasonal and/or meteorological changes. For those reasons throughput can vary significantly. This draft provides problem statement and how autonomic networking can be applied to the problem. Please note that it may take a couple of minutes from the time of submissio= n until the htmlized version and diff are available at tools.ietf.org. The IETF Secretariat --_000_07E06C7E1B0740D4ADC490FFBF68319Ejunipernet_ Content-Type: text/html; charset="us-ascii" Content-ID: <56FF25B9D0C63F4287A49C923C088987@namprd05.prod.outlook.com> Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

Begin forwarded message:

From: <<= a href=3D"mailto:internet-drafts@ietf.org">internet-drafts@ietf.org>=
Subject: Ne= w Version Notification for draft-bogdanovic-nmrg-mobile-backhaul-use-case-0= 0.txt
Date: June = 23, 2014 12:56:25 PM EDT
To: Dean = Bogdanovic <deanb@juniper.net&g= t;, Dean Bogdanovic <deanb@juniper.= net>


A new version of I-D, draft-bogdanovic-nmrg-mobile-backhaul-use-case-00.txt=
has been successfully submitted by Dean Bogdanovic and posted to the
IETF repository.

Name: draft-bogdanovic= -nmrg-mobile-backhaul-use-case
Revision: 0= 0
Title: Autonomic Netwo= rking in mobile wireless backhaul
Document date: 2014-06-23
Group: Individual Subm= ission
Pages: 9
URL:            http://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-bogdanovic= -nmrg-mobile-backhaul-use-case-00.txt
Status:         h= ttps://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-bogdanovic-nmrg-mobile-backhaul-use-c= ase/
Htmlized:       http://tools.ie= tf.org/html/draft-bogdanovic-nmrg-mobile-backhaul-use-case-00


Abstract:
  Mobile backhaul networks that utilize microwave technology in   transport are suspicious to seasonal and/or meteorological chan= ges.
  For those reasons throughput can vary significantly.  This= draft
  provides problem statement and how autonomic networking can be<= br>   applied to the problem.




Please note that it may take a couple of minutes from the time of submissio= n
until the htmlized version and diff are available at tools.ietf.org.

The IETF Secretariat


--_000_07E06C7E1B0740D4ADC490FFBF68319Ejunipernet_-- From nobody Tue Jun 24 01:15:19 2014 Return-Path: X-Original-To: nmrg@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: nmrg@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 55A341A0564 for ; Tue, 24 Jun 2014 01:15:18 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -0.978 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-0.978 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, FM_FORGED_GMAIL=0.622, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, MIME_8BIT_HEADER=0.3, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id wLn2aN0ovcIy for ; Tue, 24 Jun 2014 01:14:56 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail-lb0-x22d.google.com (mail-lb0-x22d.google.com [IPv6:2a00:1450:4010:c04::22d]) (using TLSv1 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-RC4-SHA (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 453621B2896 for ; Tue, 24 Jun 2014 01:14:56 -0700 (PDT) Received: by mail-lb0-f173.google.com with SMTP id s7so6011907lbd.4 for ; Tue, 24 Jun 2014 01:14:54 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20120113; h=mime-version:sender:in-reply-to:references:date:message-id:subject :from:to:content-type; bh=I+3tecruN8T2NxNQevBNUjl+qeFIR61N3iryNku7rj4=; b=c4Rhvwa7BWZEb27SGWeqMhHpwVQW653l29f+3M17WYScrbdTjvanbmvw0Hvdy7Fn4O 8zx688hhE+f+c7rQjvkNkpXozwUH9uZwMcVveitalDc+HoC0dMOhUl2achwREcuLAyIa oaZd1ov9RQlscx2SbVyMAYUX9PTmToJsRjokpQeUvuCrp4yT+CE65n8RHpVEqXPhxQ+d 9N4GaiPd1qIr1eCXTobt+vKketGRf7TgdQktn80OJTh+4EMfyQ0jVXPiqY6J7ThEqQas vsCd7vW6cmkWxjOPHhN66TTQRbEBVW+y3eS+YWraHyvGQh5pILNdhiWC2u6Gx1IMZXXP Grmg== MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Received: by 10.112.77.41 with SMTP id p9mr1194085lbw.53.1403597694486; Tue, 24 Jun 2014 01:14:54 -0700 (PDT) Sender: jeferson.nobre@gmail.com Received: by 10.112.146.228 with HTTP; Tue, 24 Jun 2014 01:14:54 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: <20140623221805.12892.61525.idtracker@ietfa.amsl.com> References: <20140623221805.12892.61525.idtracker@ietfa.amsl.com> Date: Tue, 24 Jun 2014 05:14:54 -0300 X-Google-Sender-Auth: JgfoF7oM2K9vrmOqy8xJFC1mKao Message-ID: From: =?UTF-8?Q?J=C3=A9ferson_Campos_Nobre?= To: nmrg@irtf.org, anima@ietf.org Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Archived-At: http://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/nmrg/D0TbHJt7Pmhbvqq_7TROPrI9TEY Subject: [nmrg] Fwd: New Version Notification for draft-irtf-nmrg-autonomic-sla-violation-detection-00.txt X-BeenThere: nmrg@irtf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: Network Management Research Group discussion list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 24 Jun 2014 08:15:18 -0000 ---------- Forwarded message ---------- From: Date: Mon, Jun 23, 2014 at 7:18 PM Subject: New Version Notification for draft-irtf-nmrg-autonomic-sla-violation-detection-00.txt To: Jeferson Campos Nobre , Alexander Clemm , Alberto Gonzalez Prieto , Lisandro Zambenedetti Granville A new version of I-D, draft-irtf-nmrg-autonomic-sla-violation-detection-00.txt has been successfully submitted by Jeferson Campos Nobre and posted to the IETF repository. Name: draft-irtf-nmrg-autonomic-sla-violation-detection Revision: 00 Title: Autonomic Networking Use Case for Distributed Detection of SLA Violations Document date: 2014-06-20 Group: nmrg Pages: 9 URL: http://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-irtf-nmrg-autonomic-sla-violation-detection-00.txt Status: https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-irtf-nmrg-autonomic-sla-violation-detection/ Htmlized: http://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-irtf-nmrg-autonomic-sla-violation-detection-00 Abstract: This document describes a use case for autonomic networking in distributed detection of SLA violations. It is one of a series of use cases intended to illustrate requirements for autonomic networking. Please note that it may take a couple of minutes from the time of submission until the htmlized version and diff are available at tools.ietf.org. The IETF Secretariat From nobody Tue Jun 24 06:55:36 2014 Return-Path: X-Original-To: nmrg@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: nmrg@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 89AC21B2951 for ; Tue, 24 Jun 2014 06:55:31 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -15.152 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-15.152 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_HI=-5, RP_MATCHES_RCVD=-0.651, SPF_PASS=-0.001, USER_IN_DEF_DKIM_WL=-7.5] autolearn=ham Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id CPt0oOczv_Ku for ; Tue, 24 Jun 2014 06:55:28 -0700 (PDT) Received: from rcdn-iport-4.cisco.com (rcdn-iport-4.cisco.com [173.37.86.75]) (using TLSv1 with cipher RC4-SHA (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 3E96F1B294B for ; Tue, 24 Jun 2014 06:55:28 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/simple; d=cisco.com; i=@cisco.com; l=2984; q=dns/txt; s=iport; t=1403618128; x=1404827728; h=from:to:subject:date:message-id: content-transfer-encoding:mime-version; bh=tGrCikYZqThpouQSbwLH+KjRIdiqG2NQQ7i6CNsKEZI=; b=fGFXiU/dDcowcPldo0J5Cx7kaT2I0zRHL8VRt/Lz5Ldp8tp09SVK0wA2 gDcnfbF95JZWgdfOSfNREGixUt3elHAPRjADOT/gZCkweKflzhHPsWXOX GTrz2iek1hxP7KIaKGHh2ED9r+DvF1enWYcqehET10MGY5tN/zCrkvKwQ 4=; X-IronPort-Anti-Spam-Filtered: true X-IronPort-Anti-Spam-Result: ApAGAJ6CqVOtJA2H/2dsb2JhbABZgw1SWqpABQECA5k1AYEGFnWEBQEEOlEBKhRCJgEEARoBiDkNw2MXhWOINxACAR4zgzKBFgWcF5Ilg0JsgUQ X-IronPort-AV: E=Sophos;i="5.01,538,1400025600"; d="scan'208";a="335366339" Received: from alln-core-2.cisco.com ([173.36.13.135]) by rcdn-iport-4.cisco.com with ESMTP; 24 Jun 2014 13:55:27 +0000 Received: from xhc-aln-x05.cisco.com (xhc-aln-x05.cisco.com [173.36.12.79]) by alln-core-2.cisco.com (8.14.5/8.14.5) with ESMTP id s5ODtQM7018026 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=AES128-SHA bits=128 verify=FAIL); Tue, 24 Jun 2014 13:55:26 GMT Received: from xmb-rcd-x14.cisco.com ([169.254.4.51]) by xhc-aln-x05.cisco.com ([173.36.12.79]) with mapi id 14.03.0123.003; Tue, 24 Jun 2014 08:55:26 -0500 From: "Michael Behringer (mbehring)" To: "anima@ietf.org" , "nmrg@irtf.org" Thread-Topic: Updating draft-irtf-nmrg-autonomic-network-definitions-00 Thread-Index: Ac+Ps8dVKhhDDzh8R4WTmNCrIuSMYg== Date: Tue, 24 Jun 2014 13:55:25 +0000 Message-ID: <3AA7118E69D7CD4BA3ECD5716BAF28DF21BCA03D@xmb-rcd-x14.cisco.com> Accept-Language: en-GB, en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-originating-ip: [10.55.238.137] Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable MIME-Version: 1.0 Archived-At: http://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/nmrg/QDoMaiZHEmV_O2RCEduWgmMy-Dk Subject: [nmrg] Updating draft-irtf-nmrg-autonomic-network-definitions-00 X-BeenThere: nmrg@irtf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: Network Management Research Group discussion list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 24 Jun 2014 13:55:31 -0000 NMRG, Anima,=20 Having gone through feedback, and re-reading the document myself, here is a= list of changes I'm proposing to make to=20 http://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-irtf-nmrg-autonomic-network-definitions-00= : High level, I think the "meat" of the document, sections 3, 4 and 6 are pre= tty complete and correct. If anyone thinks we're missing an important desig= n goal or a non-design goal, please speak up!=20 Some details:=20 1. Section 3.1. always refers to "nodes". We should rephrase this to "funct= ions". The primary goal here is not to produce a fully autonomic node or ne= twork, but autonomic functions. For the foreseeable future fully autonomic = nodes/networks will remain the exception.=20 Therefore: s/node/function/ in this section.=20 Actually, also later on in the doc the doc references sometimes "nodes" or = "the network". I suggest to change that to "function".=20 2. Common infrastructure.=20 In my mail http://www.ietf.org/mail-archive/web/nmrg/current/msg01512.html = I suggested to add to the design goals:=20
points out that there = are already a number of fully or partially autonomic functions available to= day. However, they are largely independent, and each has its own methods an= d protocols to communicate, discover, define and distribute policy, etc. The goal of the work on autonomic networking in the IETF is therefore n= ot just to create autonomic functions, but to define a common infrastructur= e that autonomic functions can use. This autonomic networking infrastructur= e may contain common control and management functions such as messaging, se= rvice discovery, negotiation, intent distribution, etc. A common approach t= o define and manage intent is also required. Refer to the reference model below: All the components around the "auto= nomic service agents" should be common components, such that the autonomic = service agents do not have to replicate common tasks individually.
Unless I missed it, I haven't seen any negative comments on that section, s= o I'll add it to the new version.=20 3. Use case section.=20 In the same email (link above) I proposed some text for the use case sectio= n. But frankly, I think this is overtaken by the discussion we had on the l= ist, and out of date.=20 We also want to drive this document to publication soon, so procedural issu= es such as how to report use cases should really not be there any more.=20 I suggest we just remove this section completely, since IMO it is not requi= red for the document to be useful and complete. Thoughts?=20 Am I missing any feedback, or points we discussed? If so, please let me kno= w!=20 I'm finalising version -01 of the document now. I'll circulate first amongs= t the authors, then post the result.=20 Michael From nobody Tue Jun 24 13:05:46 2014 Return-Path: X-Original-To: nmrg@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: nmrg@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 539941A854B for ; Tue, 24 Jun 2014 13:05:44 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 9wvuGnh9qRju for ; Tue, 24 Jun 2014 13:05:42 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail-pb0-x232.google.com (mail-pb0-x232.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:400e:c01::232]) (using TLSv1 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-RC4-SHA (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 6CB471A03E8 for ; Tue, 24 Jun 2014 13:05:42 -0700 (PDT) Received: by mail-pb0-f50.google.com with SMTP id rp16so669488pbb.37 for ; Tue, 24 Jun 2014 13:05:42 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20120113; h=message-id:date:from:organization:user-agent:mime-version:to:cc :subject:references:in-reply-to:content-type :content-transfer-encoding; bh=upK/BlFINC7Mc/Q1hzFvErAW6qQqXcspio1UHsTJ4Jc=; b=JC0b7xGgAUYaRJRoAN0TOV/TgqJ16obe/bqBUwuLxiMpoLzzHpAL7qsI8Sr6iJNPE6 nj+NGndsmZOPSx0WYKlmBueNp6Im5QyyYvrUDlB6i/weSDpLrtw/E8C2D8tF1HNRwRhi Eyv6I0a/PhbOsoCH8ziDBTKk0EDlN3v73D2vQudOQqYSqEnojBMySN3JA2O0fSNcKjGS dEGu0R2W7V6EBnNJwhIviZdQtZO32ZjhNBYaYxg1H2E1dQutDzAVyCs7AO3A7WYsttfq boNmGCZ6PgBJJ4KjziJ+myAS5OGY1qM6ULtsgk0xX4ZSXDQx8dZsDKDAOFAozUudhRDZ nSbQ== X-Received: by 10.66.254.37 with SMTP id af5mr4437068pad.113.1403640342084; Tue, 24 Jun 2014 13:05:42 -0700 (PDT) Received: from [192.168.178.23] (247.193.69.111.dynamic.snap.net.nz. [111.69.193.247]) by mx.google.com with ESMTPSA id bx5sm1712750pbd.69.2014.06.24.13.05.40 for (version=TLSv1 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-RC4-SHA bits=128/128); Tue, 24 Jun 2014 13:05:41 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <53A9DA1A.6050600@gmail.com> Date: Wed, 25 Jun 2014 08:05:46 +1200 From: Brian E Carpenter Organization: University of Auckland User-Agent: Thunderbird 2.0.0.6 (Windows/20070728) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: "Michael Behringer (mbehring)" References: <3AA7118E69D7CD4BA3ECD5716BAF28DF21BCA03D@xmb-rcd-x14.cisco.com> In-Reply-To: <3AA7118E69D7CD4BA3ECD5716BAF28DF21BCA03D@xmb-rcd-x14.cisco.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Archived-At: http://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/nmrg/bvACBvSioA8bL8ulY5NBKOnfd00 Cc: "nmrg@irtf.org" , "anima@ietf.org" Subject: Re: [nmrg] [Anima] Updating draft-irtf-nmrg-autonomic-network-definitions-00 X-BeenThere: nmrg@irtf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: Network Management Research Group discussion list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 24 Jun 2014 20:05:44 -0000 Michael, I think that's all reasonable; I will re-read the whole draft when you circulate it to the co-authors. ... > 3. Use case section. > In the same email (link above) I proposed some text for the use case section. But frankly, I think this is overtaken by the discussion we had on the list, and out of date. > We also want to drive this document to publication soon, so procedural issues such as how to report use cases should really not be there any more. > I suggest we just remove this section completely, since IMO it is not required for the document to be useful and complete. Thoughts? I agree. I think the use cases will be very valuable in confirming solution requirements, but this topic doesn't really belong with the definitions. Brian From nobody Wed Jun 25 01:34:51 2014 Return-Path: X-Original-To: nmrg@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: nmrg@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 609281B2B19 for ; Wed, 25 Jun 2014 01:34:48 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -3.252 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-3.252 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW=-0.7, RP_MATCHES_RCVD=-0.651, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=unavailable Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 93F15r9WDn-J for ; Wed, 25 Jun 2014 01:34:46 -0700 (PDT) Received: from szxga03-in.huawei.com (szxga03-in.huawei.com [119.145.14.66]) (using TLSv1 with cipher RC4-SHA (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id B0CBA1B2B18 for ; Wed, 25 Jun 2014 01:34:45 -0700 (PDT) Received: from 172.24.2.119 (EHLO nkgeml408-hub.china.huawei.com) ([172.24.2.119]) by szxrg03-dlp.huawei.com (MOS 4.4.3-GA FastPath queued) with ESMTP id AQT25087; Wed, 25 Jun 2014 16:34:36 +0800 (CST) Received: from NKGEML512-MBX.china.huawei.com ([169.254.7.249]) by nkgeml408-hub.china.huawei.com ([10.98.56.39]) with mapi id 14.03.0158.001; Wed, 25 Jun 2014 16:34:30 +0800 From: Sheng Jiang To: "Michael Behringer (mbehring)" , "anima@ietf.org" , "nmrg@irtf.org" Thread-Topic: Updating draft-irtf-nmrg-autonomic-network-definitions-00 Thread-Index: Ac+Ps8dVKhhDDzh8R4WTmNCrIuSMYgAmu8DA Date: Wed, 25 Jun 2014 08:34:30 +0000 Message-ID: <5D36713D8A4E7348A7E10DF7437A4B923AEBC73A@nkgeml512-mbx.china.huawei.com> References: <3AA7118E69D7CD4BA3ECD5716BAF28DF21BCA03D@xmb-rcd-x14.cisco.com> In-Reply-To: <3AA7118E69D7CD4BA3ECD5716BAF28DF21BCA03D@xmb-rcd-x14.cisco.com> Accept-Language: en-GB, zh-CN, en-US Content-Language: zh-CN X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-originating-ip: [10.111.98.145] Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-CFilter-Loop: Reflected X-Mirapoint-Virus-RAPID-Raw: score=unknown(0), refid=str=0001.0A020201.53AA899D.008E,ss=1,re=0.000,fgs=0, ip=169.254.7.249, so=2013-05-26 15:14:31, dmn=2011-05-27 18:58:46 X-Mirapoint-Loop-Id: f638cdad9f32c514b8f697783744f699 Archived-At: http://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/nmrg/J8VKft9Q8imAefsT8dphdowaYmY Subject: Re: [nmrg] Updating draft-irtf-nmrg-autonomic-network-definitions-00 X-BeenThere: nmrg@irtf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: Network Management Research Group discussion list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 25 Jun 2014 08:34:48 -0000 SGksIE1pY2hhZWwsDQoNCllvdXIgc3VnZ2VzdGlvbnMgbG9va3MgZ29vZC4gDQoNCk9uZSBjb21t ZW50czogdGhlIGN1cnJlbnQgZGVmaW5pdGlvbiBvZiBhdXRvbm9taWMgbmV0d29yayBsb29rcyB2 YWd1ZS4gTWF5IEkgcHJvcG9zZSB0byBtb2RpZnkgaXQ6IGEgbmV0d29yayB3aGljaCBlbXBsb3lz 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bXBsZXRlbHksIHNpbmNlIElNTyBpdCBpcyBub3QgcmVxdWlyZWQNCj5mb3IgdGhlIGRvY3VtZW50 IHRvIGJlIHVzZWZ1bCBhbmQgY29tcGxldGUuIFRob3VnaHRzPw0KPg0KPkFtIEkgbWlzc2luZyBh bnkgZmVlZGJhY2ssIG9yIHBvaW50cyB3ZSBkaXNjdXNzZWQ/IElmIHNvLCBwbGVhc2UgbGV0IG1l IGtub3chDQo+DQo+SSdtIGZpbmFsaXNpbmcgdmVyc2lvbiAtMDEgb2YgdGhlIGRvY3VtZW50IG5v dy4gSSdsbCBjaXJjdWxhdGUgZmlyc3QgYW1vbmdzdCB0aGUNCj5hdXRob3JzLCB0aGVuIHBvc3Qg dGhlIHJlc3VsdC4NCj4NCj5NaWNoYWVsDQo+DQo+X19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19f X19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX18NCj5BbmltYSBtYWlsaW5nIGxpc3QNCj5BbmltYUBpZXRmLm9y Zw0KPmh0dHBzOi8vd3d3LmlldGYub3JnL21haWxtYW4vbGlzdGluZm8vYW5pbWENCg== From nobody Thu Jun 26 03:23:42 2014 Return-Path: X-Original-To: nmrg@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: nmrg@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id D0BE31B2B26 for ; Thu, 26 Jun 2014 03:23:40 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -15.152 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, 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"Michael Behringer (mbehring)" To: Sheng Jiang , "anima@ietf.org" , "nmrg@irtf.org" Thread-Topic: Updating draft-irtf-nmrg-autonomic-network-definitions-00 Thread-Index: Ac+Ps8dVKhhDDzh8R4WTmNCrIuSMYgAmu8DAADYwkFA= Date: Thu, 26 Jun 2014 10:23:36 +0000 Message-ID: <3AA7118E69D7CD4BA3ECD5716BAF28DF21BD222A@xmb-rcd-x14.cisco.com> References: <3AA7118E69D7CD4BA3ECD5716BAF28DF21BCA03D@xmb-rcd-x14.cisco.com> <5D36713D8A4E7348A7E10DF7437A4B923AEBC73A@nkgeml512-mbx.china.huawei.com> In-Reply-To: <5D36713D8A4E7348A7E10DF7437A4B923AEBC73A@nkgeml512-mbx.china.huawei.com> Accept-Language: en-GB, en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-originating-ip: [10.55.238.137] Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 MIME-Version: 1.0 Archived-At: http://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/nmrg/JITgX2i_Ml8Incc1fTRwR-QgIuM Subject: Re: [nmrg] Updating draft-irtf-nmrg-autonomic-network-definitions-00 X-BeenThere: nmrg@irtf.org X-Mailman-Version: 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IGRpc2NvdmVyeSAgICANCiAgICAgIG9yIHRocm91Z2ggaW50ZW50LiBUeXBpY2FsbHkgYW4gYXV0 b25vbWljIGZ1bmN0aW9uIHNwYW5zIHNldmVyYWwgbm9kZXMuPC90Pg0KDQpXaGF0IGRvIHlvdSB0 aGluaz8gSSdtIGEgYml0IGluIGJldHdlZW4gInllcywgdGhpcyBpcyBtb3JlIHByZWNpc2UiLCBh bmQgInRoaXMgZG9lc24ndCBhZGQgbXVjaCB2YWx1ZSBhbmQgY29tcGxpY2F0ZXMgdGhpbmdzIi4g U2xpZ2h0IHRlbmRlbmN5IHRvIGFncmVlIHRvIGFkZCBpdC4gDQoNClRob3VnaHRzPyANCg0KTWlj aGFlbA0KDQoNCj4gDQo+IEJlc3QgcmVnYXJkcywNCj4gDQo+IFNoZW5nDQo= From nobody Thu Jun 26 18:33:45 2014 Return-Path: X-Original-To: nmrg@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: nmrg@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2225A1B30BA for ; Thu, 26 Jun 2014 18:33:38 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -3.252 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-3.252 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW=-0.7, RP_MATCHES_RCVD=-0.651, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=unavailable Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id elzCrHrMnJRB for ; Thu, 26 Jun 2014 18:33:37 -0700 (PDT) Received: from szxga01-in.huawei.com (szxga01-in.huawei.com [119.145.14.64]) (using TLSv1 with cipher RC4-SHA (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 82AD31B30BB for ; Thu, 26 Jun 2014 18:33:36 -0700 (PDT) Received: from 172.24.2.119 (EHLO nkgeml402-hub.china.huawei.com) ([172.24.2.119]) by szxrg01-dlp.huawei.com (MOS 4.3.7-GA FastPath queued) with ESMTP id BXV04182; Fri, 27 Jun 2014 09:33:28 +0800 (CST) Received: from NKGEML512-MBX.china.huawei.com ([169.254.7.249]) by nkgeml402-hub.china.huawei.com ([10.98.56.33]) with mapi id 14.03.0158.001; Fri, 27 Jun 2014 09:33:26 +0800 From: Sheng Jiang To: "Michael Behringer (mbehring)" , "anima@ietf.org" , "nmrg@irtf.org" Thread-Topic: Updating draft-irtf-nmrg-autonomic-network-definitions-00 Thread-Index: Ac+Ps8dVKhhDDzh8R4WTmNCrIuSMYgAmu8DAADYwkFAAHyjQkA== Date: Fri, 27 Jun 2014 01:33:25 +0000 Message-ID: <5D36713D8A4E7348A7E10DF7437A4B923AEC11E3@nkgeml512-mbx.china.huawei.com> References: <3AA7118E69D7CD4BA3ECD5716BAF28DF21BCA03D@xmb-rcd-x14.cisco.com> <5D36713D8A4E7348A7E10DF7437A4B923AEBC73A@nkgeml512-mbx.china.huawei.com> <3AA7118E69D7CD4BA3ECD5716BAF28DF21BD222A@xmb-rcd-x14.cisco.com> In-Reply-To: <3AA7118E69D7CD4BA3ECD5716BAF28DF21BD222A@xmb-rcd-x14.cisco.com> Accept-Language: en-GB, zh-CN, en-US Content-Language: zh-CN X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-originating-ip: [10.111.98.145] Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-CFilter-Loop: Reflected Archived-At: http://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/nmrg/Afg5JzxTh0USnsMi620P9ahbffs Subject: Re: [nmrg] Updating draft-irtf-nmrg-autonomic-network-definitions-00 X-BeenThere: nmrg@irtf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: Network Management Research Group 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Fri, 27 Jun 2014 02:00:18 -0500 From: "Michael Behringer (mbehring)" To: Sheng Jiang , "anima@ietf.org" , "nmrg@irtf.org" Thread-Topic: Updating draft-irtf-nmrg-autonomic-network-definitions-00 Thread-Index: Ac+Ps8dVKhhDDzh8R4WTmNCrIuSMYgAmu8DAADYwkFAAHyjQkAAMNiqA Date: Fri, 27 Jun 2014 07:00:17 +0000 Message-ID: <3AA7118E69D7CD4BA3ECD5716BAF28DF21BD33ED@xmb-rcd-x14.cisco.com> References: <3AA7118E69D7CD4BA3ECD5716BAF28DF21BCA03D@xmb-rcd-x14.cisco.com> <5D36713D8A4E7348A7E10DF7437A4B923AEBC73A@nkgeml512-mbx.china.huawei.com> <3AA7118E69D7CD4BA3ECD5716BAF28DF21BD222A@xmb-rcd-x14.cisco.com> <5D36713D8A4E7348A7E10DF7437A4B923AEC11E3@nkgeml512-mbx.china.huawei.com> In-Reply-To: <5D36713D8A4E7348A7E10DF7437A4B923AEC11E3@nkgeml512-mbx.china.huawei.com> Accept-Language: en-GB, en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-originating-ip: [10.55.238.133] Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 MIME-Version: 1.0 Archived-At: http://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/nmrg/qI1muCuIDK9RDwuiQdPw7sNWZvQ Subject: Re: [nmrg] Updating draft-irtf-nmrg-autonomic-network-definitions-00 X-BeenThere: nmrg@irtf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: Network Management Research Group discussion list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 27 Jun 2014 07:00:28 -0000 U2hlbmcsIA0KDQo+IC0tLS0tT3JpZ2luYWwgTWVzc2FnZS0tLS0tDQo+IEZyb206IFNoZW5nIEpp YW5nIFttYWlsdG86amlhbmdzaGVuZ0BodWF3ZWkuY29tXQ0KPiBTZW50OiAyNyBKdW5lIDIwMTQg MDM6MzMNCj4gVG86IE1pY2hhZWwgQmVocmluZ2VyIChtYmVocmluZyk7IGFuaW1hQGlldGYub3Jn OyBubXJnQGlydGYub3JnDQo+IFN1YmplY3Q6IFJFOiBVcGRhdGluZyBkcmFmdC1pcnRmLW5tcmct YXV0b25vbWljLW5ldHdvcmstZGVmaW5pdGlvbnMtMDANCj4gDQo+ID4+IE9uZSBjb21tZW50czog dGhlIGN1cnJlbnQgZGVmaW5pdGlvbiBvZiBhdXRvbm9taWMgbmV0d29yayBsb29rcw0KPiB2YWd1 ZS4NCj4gPj4gTWF5IEkgcHJvcG9zZSB0byBtb2RpZnkgaXQ6IGEgbmV0d29yayB3aGljaCBlbXBs 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aW5pdGlvbiB0byAobGFzdCBzZW50ZW5jZQ0KPiBhZGRlZCk6DQo+ID4NCj4gPiAgICAgIDx0PkF1 dG9ub21pYyBGdW5jdGlvbjogQSBmdW5jdGlvbiB3aGljaCByZXF1aXJlcyBubw0KPiA+Y29uZmln dXJhdGlvbiwgYW5kDQo+ID4gICAgICBjYW4gZGVyaXZlIGFsbCByZXF1aXJlZCBpbmZvcm1hdGlv biBlaXRoZXIgdGhyb3VnaA0KPiA+c2VsZi1rbm93bGVkZ2UsIGRpc2NvdmVyeQ0KPiA+ICAgICAg b3IgdGhyb3VnaCBpbnRlbnQuIFR5cGljYWxseSBhbiBhdXRvbm9taWMgZnVuY3Rpb24gc3BhbnMg c2V2ZXJhbA0KPiA+bm9kZXMuPC90Pg0KPiA+DQo+ID5XaGF0IGRvIHlvdSB0aGluaz8gSSdtIGEg Yml0IGluIGJldHdlZW4gInllcywgdGhpcyBpcyBtb3JlIHByZWNpc2UiLA0KPiA+YW5kICJ0aGlz IGRvZXNuJ3QgYWRkIG11Y2ggdmFsdWUgYW5kIGNvbXBsaWNhdGVzIHRoaW5ncyIuIFNsaWdodA0K PiA+dGVuZGVuY3kgdG8gYWdyZWUgdG8gYWRkIGl0Lg0KPiANCj4gVGhpcyBpcyBoZWxwZnVsLiBC dXQgaXQgZG9lcyBub3QgYWRkcmVzcyBteSBjb25jZXJuIHJlZ2FyZGluZyB0byB0aGUNCj4gYXV0 b25vbWljIG5ldHdvcmsgZGVmaW5pdGlvbi4NCj4gDQo+IFJlZ2FyZHMsDQo+IA0KPiBTaGVuZw0K PiANCj4gPlRob3VnaHRzPw0KPiA+DQo+ID5NaWNoYWVsDQo+ID4NCj4gPg0KPiA+Pg0KPiA+PiBC ZXN0IHJlZ2FyZHMsDQo+ID4+DQo+ID4+IFNoZW5nDQo= From nobody Fri Jun 27 00:42:39 2014 Return-Path: X-Original-To: nmrg@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: nmrg@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9DAA61B3173 for ; Fri, 27 Jun 2014 00:42:36 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -3.242 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-3.242 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW=-0.7, RP_MATCHES_RCVD=-0.651, SPF_PASS=-0.001, T_FSL_HELO_BARE_IP_2=0.01] autolearn=unavailable Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id evFC6qu22vox for ; Fri, 27 Jun 2014 00:42:35 -0700 (PDT) Received: from szxga03-in.huawei.com (szxga03-in.huawei.com [119.145.14.66]) (using TLSv1 with cipher RC4-SHA (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id D4E471B3129 for ; Fri, 27 Jun 2014 00:42:33 -0700 (PDT) Received: from 172.24.2.119 (EHLO 172.24.1.48) ([172.24.2.119]) by szxrg03-dlp.huawei.com (MOS 4.4.3-GA FastPath queued) with ESMTP id AQW45101; Fri, 27 Jun 2014 15:40:26 +0800 (CST) Received: from NKGEML512-MBX.china.huawei.com ([169.254.7.249]) by nkgeml407-hub.china.huawei.com ([10.98.56.38]) with mapi id 14.03.0158.001; Fri, 27 Jun 2014 15:38:59 +0800 From: Sheng Jiang To: "Michael Behringer (mbehring)" , "anima@ietf.org" , "nmrg@irtf.org" Thread-Topic: Updating draft-irtf-nmrg-autonomic-network-definitions-00 Thread-Index: Ac+Ps8dVKhhDDzh8R4WTmNCrIuSMYgAmu8DAADYwkFAAHyjQkAAMNiqAAAEyf8A= Date: Fri, 27 Jun 2014 07:38:58 +0000 Message-ID: <5D36713D8A4E7348A7E10DF7437A4B923AEC1488@nkgeml512-mbx.china.huawei.com> References: <3AA7118E69D7CD4BA3ECD5716BAF28DF21BCA03D@xmb-rcd-x14.cisco.com> <5D36713D8A4E7348A7E10DF7437A4B923AEBC73A@nkgeml512-mbx.china.huawei.com> <3AA7118E69D7CD4BA3ECD5716BAF28DF21BD222A@xmb-rcd-x14.cisco.com> <5D36713D8A4E7348A7E10DF7437A4B923AEC11E3@nkgeml512-mbx.china.huawei.com> 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([173.37.183.82]) with mapi id 14.03.0123.003; Fri, 27 Jun 2014 04:46:25 -0500 From: "Michael Behringer (mbehring)" To: Sheng Jiang , "anima@ietf.org" , "nmrg@irtf.org" Thread-Topic: [Anima] Updating draft-irtf-nmrg-autonomic-network-definitions-00 Thread-Index: AQHPkdrr6+2vwpJ910WiHlHnnKpqvZuEtJXw Date: Fri, 27 Jun 2014 09:46:24 +0000 Message-ID: <3AA7118E69D7CD4BA3ECD5716BAF28DF21BD3776@xmb-rcd-x14.cisco.com> References: <3AA7118E69D7CD4BA3ECD5716BAF28DF21BCA03D@xmb-rcd-x14.cisco.com> <5D36713D8A4E7348A7E10DF7437A4B923AEBC73A@nkgeml512-mbx.china.huawei.com> <3AA7118E69D7CD4BA3ECD5716BAF28DF21BD222A@xmb-rcd-x14.cisco.com> <5D36713D8A4E7348A7E10DF7437A4B923AEC11E3@nkgeml512-mbx.china.huawei.com> <3AA7118E69D7CD4BA3ECD5716BAF28DF21BD33ED@xmb-rcd-x14.cisco.com> <5D36713D8A4E7348A7E10DF7437A4B923AEC1488@nkgeml512-mbx.china.huawei.com> In-Reply-To: <5D36713D8A4E7348A7E10DF7437A4B923AEC1488@nkgeml512-mbx.china.huawei.com> Accept-Language: en-GB, en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-originating-ip: [10.55.238.133] Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable MIME-Version: 1.0 Archived-At: http://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/nmrg/7aJ2mbk3LWTN3u2tKe3KOP-KOdQ Subject: Re: [nmrg] [Anima] Updating draft-irtf-nmrg-autonomic-network-definitions-00 X-BeenThere: nmrg@irtf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: Network Management Research Group discussion list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 27 Jun 2014 09:46:28 -0000 > -----Original Message----- > From: Anima [mailto:anima-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of Sheng Jiang > Sent: 27 June 2014 09:39 > To: Michael Behringer (mbehring); anima@ietf.org; nmrg@irtf.org > Subject: Re: [Anima] Updating draft-irtf-nmrg-autonomic-network- > definitions-00 >=20 > >> >The only thing that's not covered is the "network wide". But that's > >> >also not necessarily true, because an autonomic function could well > >> >span only a few devices. > >> > >> Hi, Michael, > >> > >> The point is how much scale of autonomic function can be called an > >> autonomic network. Say, if there is a network with hundreds devices, > >> two of these devices has been deployed some autonomic functions. Can > >> the network be claimed as an autonomic network? "Network wide" does > >> not mean every devices. It means a large portion of the network have > >> autonomic functions. > > > >The fundamental question is whether we want to include autonomic > >functions that for example just involve two devices. And I would > >strongly suggest YES, for example I can see improvements on VRRP in the > >future as an autonomic function (you could already claim some limited > >autonomy, in fact). We want to cover that, right? >=20 > That's a valid use case for autonomic function deployment. But, with thes= e > two devices autonomic hot standby or backup each other, should the whole > network be called an autonomic network? If you think "network-wide" is a > too high threshold for autonomic network, we can work out some lower > description. Indeed, many people will probably imply that what we call an "autonomic net= work" is actually what we define as a "fully autonomic network".=20 Maybe the better phrase would be "partially autonomic network".=20 But, no doubt we'll have more discussions around this at the IETF. I sugges= t to leave it for now, discuss at NMRG how people feel we should call it. O= K?=20 =20 Michael > Sheng > _______________________________________________ > Anima mailing list > Anima@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/anima From nobody Fri Jun 27 02:55:34 2014 Return-Path: X-Original-To: nmrg@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: nmrg@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 895F61B2F4F for ; Fri, 27 Jun 2014 02:55:32 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -3.252 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-3.252 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW=-0.7, RP_MATCHES_RCVD=-0.651, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=unavailable Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id LzZgwjw7eWRv for ; Fri, 27 Jun 2014 02:55:31 -0700 (PDT) Received: from szxga01-in.huawei.com (szxga01-in.huawei.com [119.145.14.64]) (using TLSv1 with cipher RC4-SHA (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id A0FDC1B2CED for ; Fri, 27 Jun 2014 02:55:30 -0700 (PDT) Received: from 172.24.2.119 (EHLO nkgeml405-hub.china.huawei.com) ([172.24.2.119]) by szxrg01-dlp.huawei.com (MOS 4.3.7-GA FastPath queued) with ESMTP id BXV63657; Fri, 27 Jun 2014 17:55:25 +0800 (CST) Received: from NKGEML512-MBX.china.huawei.com ([169.254.7.249]) by nkgeml405-hub.china.huawei.com ([10.98.56.36]) with mapi id 14.03.0158.001; Fri, 27 Jun 2014 17:55:20 +0800 From: Sheng Jiang To: "Michael Behringer (mbehring)" , "anima@ietf.org" , "nmrg@irtf.org" Thread-Topic: [Anima] Updating draft-irtf-nmrg-autonomic-network-definitions-00 Thread-Index: AQHPkeytPe7kAOvbJkO8AgJ/3sNQlJuEtauA Date: Fri, 27 Jun 2014 09:55:20 +0000 Message-ID: <5D36713D8A4E7348A7E10DF7437A4B923AEC157F@nkgeml512-mbx.china.huawei.com> References: <3AA7118E69D7CD4BA3ECD5716BAF28DF21BCA03D@xmb-rcd-x14.cisco.com> <5D36713D8A4E7348A7E10DF7437A4B923AEBC73A@nkgeml512-mbx.china.huawei.com> <3AA7118E69D7CD4BA3ECD5716BAF28DF21BD222A@xmb-rcd-x14.cisco.com> <5D36713D8A4E7348A7E10DF7437A4B923AEC11E3@nkgeml512-mbx.china.huawei.com> <3AA7118E69D7CD4BA3ECD5716BAF28DF21BD33ED@xmb-rcd-x14.cisco.com> <5D36713D8A4E7348A7E10DF7437A4B923AEC1488@nkgeml512-mbx.china.huawei.com> <3AA7118E69D7CD4BA3ECD5716BAF28DF21BD3776@xmb-rcd-x14.cisco.com> In-Reply-To: <3AA7118E69D7CD4BA3ECD5716BAF28DF21BD3776@xmb-rcd-x14.cisco.com> Accept-Language: en-GB, zh-CN, en-US Content-Language: zh-CN X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-originating-ip: [10.111.98.145] Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-CFilter-Loop: Reflected Archived-At: http://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/nmrg/ihtHF4Vi2gjOGKrTiUb5mDySA9Q Subject: Re: [nmrg] [Anima] Updating draft-irtf-nmrg-autonomic-network-definitions-00 X-BeenThere: nmrg@irtf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: Network Management Research Group discussion list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 27 Jun 2014 09:55:32 -0000 Pj4gPj4gVGhlIHBvaW50IGlzIGhvdyBtdWNoIHNjYWxlIG9mIGF1dG9ub21pYyBmdW5jdGlvbiBj YW4gYmUgY2FsbGVkIGFuDQo+PiA+PiBhdXRvbm9taWMgbmV0d29yay4gU2F5LCBpZiB0aGVyZSBp cyBhIG5ldHdvcmsgd2l0aCBodW5kcmVkcyBkZXZpY2VzLA0KPj4gPj4gdHdvIG9mIHRoZXNlIGRl dmljZXMgaGFzIGJlZW4gZGVwbG95ZWQgc29tZSBhdXRvbm9taWMgZnVuY3Rpb25zLiBDYW4NCj4+ ID4+IHRoZSBuZXR3b3JrIGJlIGNsYWltZWQgYXMgYW4gYXV0b25vbWljIG5ldHdvcms/ICJOZXR3 b3JrIHdpZGUiIGRvZXMNCj4+ID4+IG5vdCBtZWFuIGV2ZXJ5IGRldmljZXMuIEl0IG1lYW5zIGEg bGFyZ2UgcG9ydGlvbiBvZiB0aGUgbmV0d29yayBoYXZlDQo+PiA+PiBhdXRvbm9taWMgZnVuY3Rp b25zLg0KPj4gPg0KPj4gPlRoZSBmdW5kYW1lbnRhbCBxdWVzdGlvbiBpcyB3aGV0aGVyIHdlIHdh bnQgdG8gaW5jbHVkZSBhdXRvbm9taWMNCj4+ID5mdW5jdGlvbnMgdGhhdCBmb3IgZXhhbXBsZSBq dXN0IGludm9sdmUgdHdvIGRldmljZXMuIEFuZCBJIHdvdWxkDQo+PiA+c3Ryb25nbHkgc3VnZ2Vz dCBZRVMsIGZvciBleGFtcGxlIEkgY2FuIHNlZSBpbXByb3ZlbWVudHMgb24gVlJSUCBpbiB0aGUN Cj4+ID5mdXR1cmUgYXMgYW4gYXV0b25vbWljIGZ1bmN0aW9uICh5b3UgY291bGQgYWxyZWFkeSBj bGFpbSBzb21lIGxpbWl0ZWQNCj4+ID5hdXRvbm9teSwgaW4gZmFjdCkuIFdlIHdhbnQgdG8gY292 ZXIgdGhhdCwgcmlnaHQ/DQo+Pg0KPj4gVGhhdCdzIGEgdmFsaWQgdXNlIGNhc2UgZm9yIGF1dG9u b21pYyBmdW5jdGlvbiBkZXBsb3ltZW50LiBCdXQsIHdpdGggdGhlc2UNCj4+IHR3byBkZXZpY2Vz IGF1dG9ub21pYyBob3Qgc3RhbmRieSBvciBiYWNrdXAgZWFjaCBvdGhlciwgc2hvdWxkIHRoZSB3 aG9sZQ0KPj4gbmV0d29yayBiZSBjYWxsZWQgYW4gYXV0b25vbWljIG5ldHdvcms/IElmIHlvdSB0 aGluayAibmV0d29yay13aWRlIiBpcyBhDQo+PiB0b28gaGlnaCB0aHJlc2hvbGQgZm9yIGF1dG9u b21pYyBuZXR3b3JrLCB3ZSBjYW4gd29yayBvdXQgc29tZSBsb3dlcg0KPj4gZGVzY3JpcHRpb24u DQo+DQo+SW5kZWVkLCBtYW55IHBlb3BsZSB3aWxsIHByb2JhYmx5IGltcGx5IHRoYXQgd2hhdCB3 ZSBjYWxsIGFuICJhdXRvbm9taWMNCj5uZXR3b3JrIiBpcyBhY3R1YWxseSB3aGF0IHdlIGRlZmlu ZSBhcyBhICJmdWxseSBhdXRvbm9taWMgbmV0d29yayIuDQo+TWF5YmUgdGhlIGJldHRlciBwaHJh c2Ugd291bGQgYmUgInBhcnRpYWxseSBhdXRvbm9taWMgbmV0d29yayIuDQoNClRoaXMgc291bmRz IGJldHRlciBmb3IgbWUuDQoNCj5CdXQsIG5vIGRvdWJ0IHdlJ2xsIGhhdmUgbW9yZSBkaXNjdXNz aW9ucyBhcm91bmQgdGhpcyBhdCB0aGUgSUVURi4gSSBzdWdnZXN0IHRvDQo+bGVhdmUgaXQgZm9y IG5vdywgZGlzY3VzcyBhdCBOTVJHIGhvdyBwZW9wbGUgZmVlbCB3ZSBzaG91bGQgY2FsbCBpdC4g T0s/DQoNClRoYXQncyBvaywgZm9yIHN1cmUuIDopDQoNClNoZW5nDQoNCj5NaWNoYWVsDQo+DQo+ PiBTaGVuZw0KPj4gX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19f X18NCj4+IEFuaW1hIG1haWxpbmcgbGlzdA0KPj4gQW5pbWFAaWV0Zi5vcmcNCj4+IGh0dHBzOi8v d3d3LmlldGYub3JnL21haWxtYW4vbGlzdGluZm8vYW5pbWENCg== From nobody Fri Jun 27 03:13:22 2014 Return-Path: X-Original-To: nmrg@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: nmrg@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 49E9E1B2B14 for ; 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Fri, 27 Jun 2014 05:13:04 -0500 From: "Michael Behringer (mbehring)" To: "nmrg@irtf.org" , "anima@ietf.org" Thread-Topic: New Version Notification for draft-irtf-nmrg-autonomic-network-definitions-01.txt Thread-Index: AQHPkfAES8LHcl/Qh0uLaV91EAdcf5uEvEjg Date: Fri, 27 Jun 2014 10:13:03 +0000 Message-ID: <3AA7118E69D7CD4BA3ECD5716BAF28DF21BD3806@xmb-rcd-x14.cisco.com> References: <20140627101020.24416.82468.idtracker@ietfa.amsl.com> In-Reply-To: <20140627101020.24416.82468.idtracker@ietfa.amsl.com> Accept-Language: en-GB, en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-originating-ip: [10.55.238.133] Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 MIME-Version: 1.0 Archived-At: http://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/nmrg/x8tMKGyJx1ddZnbD-cy7OcbFs4s Subject: [nmrg] FW: New Version Notification for draft-irtf-nmrg-autonomic-network-definitions-01.txt X-BeenThere: nmrg@irtf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: Network Management Research Group discussion list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 27 Jun 2014 10:13:10 -0000 Tk1SRywgQW5pbWEsIA0KDQpIZXJlIGlzIHRoZSBsYXRlc3QgdmVyc2lvbiBvZiB0aGUgYXV0b25v bWljcyBkZWZpbml0aW9ucyBhbmQgZGVzaWduIGdvYWxzIGRyYWZ0LiBXZSBiZWxpZXZlIHRoYXQg d2UncmUgdmVyeSBjbG9zZSB0byBsYXN0IGNhbGwsIGFuZCB3b3VsZCByZXF1ZXN0IHJldmlldyBh bmQgZmVlZGJhY2suIA0KDQpJcyB0aGlzIGRvY3VtZW50IHJlYWR5IHRvIGJlIHB1Ymxpc2hlZD8g DQoNCk1pY2hhZWwNCg0KPiAtLS0tLU9yaWdpbmFsIE1lc3NhZ2UtLS0tLQ0KPiBGcm9tOiBpbnRl cm5ldC1kcmFmdHNAaWV0Zi5vcmcgW21haWx0bzppbnRlcm5ldC1kcmFmdHNAaWV0Zi5vcmddDQo+ IFNlbnQ6IDI3IEp1bmUgMjAxNCAxMjoxMA0KPiBUbzogTGF1cmVudCBDaWF2YWdsaWE7IE1heCBQ cml0aWtpbiAocHJpdGlraW4pOyBBbGV4YW5kZXIgQ2xlbW0gKGFsZXgpOyBCcmlhbg0KPiBFLiBD YXJwZW50ZXI7IFNoZW5nIEppYW5nOyBTdGVpbnRob3IgQmphcm5hc29uIChzYmphcm5hcyk7IE1p Y2hhZWwgQmVocmluZ2VyDQo+IChtYmVocmluZyk7IE1heCBQcml0aWtpbiAocHJpdGlraW4pOyBT dGVpbnRob3IgQmphcm5hc29uIChzYmphcm5hcyk7IE1pY2hhZWwNCj4gQmVocmluZ2VyIChtYmVo cmluZyk7IEJyaWFuIENhcnBlbnRlcjsgQWxleGFuZGVyIENsZW1tIChhbGV4KTsgTGF1cmVudA0K PiBDaWF2YWdsaWE7IFNoZW5nIEppYW5nDQo+IFN1YmplY3Q6IE5ldyBWZXJzaW9uIE5vdGlmaWNh dGlvbiBmb3IgZHJhZnQtaXJ0Zi1ubXJnLWF1dG9ub21pYy1uZXR3b3JrLQ0KPiBkZWZpbml0aW9u cy0wMS50eHQNCj4gDQo+IA0KPiBBIG5ldyB2ZXJzaW9uIG9mIEktRCwgZHJhZnQtaXJ0Zi1ubXJn LWF1dG9ub21pYy1uZXR3b3JrLWRlZmluaXRpb25zLTAxLnR4dA0KPiBoYXMgYmVlbiBzdWNjZXNz ZnVsbHkgc3VibWl0dGVkIGJ5IE1pY2hhZWwgQmVocmluZ2VyIGFuZCBwb3N0ZWQgdG8gdGhlDQo+ IElFVEYgcmVwb3NpdG9yeS4NCj4gDQo+IE5hbWU6CQlkcmFmdC1pcnRmLW5tcmctYXV0b25vbWlj LW5ldHdvcmstZGVmaW5pdGlvbnMNCj4gUmV2aXNpb246CTAxDQo+IFRpdGxlOgkJQXV0b25vbWlj IE5ldHdvcmtpbmcgLSBEZWZpbml0aW9ucyBhbmQgRGVzaWduIEdvYWxzDQo+IERvY3VtZW50IGRh dGU6CTIwMTQtMDYtMjcNCj4gR3JvdXA6CQlubXJnDQo+IFBhZ2VzOgkJMTMNCj4gVVJMOiAgICAg ICAgICAgIGh0dHA6Ly93d3cuaWV0Zi5vcmcvaW50ZXJuZXQtZHJhZnRzL2RyYWZ0LWlydGYtbm1y Zy1hdXRvbm9taWMtDQo+IG5ldHdvcmstZGVmaW5pdGlvbnMtMDEudHh0DQo+IFN0YXR1czogICAg ICAgICBodHRwczovL2RhdGF0cmFja2VyLmlldGYub3JnL2RvYy9kcmFmdC1pcnRmLW5tcmctYXV0 b25vbWljLQ0KPiBuZXR3b3JrLWRlZmluaXRpb25zLw0KPiBIdG1saXplZDogICAgICAgaHR0cDov L3Rvb2xzLmlldGYub3JnL2h0bWwvZHJhZnQtaXJ0Zi1ubXJnLWF1dG9ub21pYy1uZXR3b3JrLQ0K PiBkZWZpbml0aW9ucy0wMQ0KPiBEaWZmOiAgICAgICAgICAgaHR0cDovL3d3dy5pZXRmLm9yZy9y ZmNkaWZmP3VybDI9ZHJhZnQtaXJ0Zi1ubXJnLWF1dG9ub21pYy0NCj4gbmV0d29yay1kZWZpbml0 aW9ucy0wMQ0KPiANCj4gQWJzdHJhY3Q6DQo+ICAgIEF1dG9ub21pYyBzeXN0ZW1zIHdlcmUgZmly c3QgZGVzY3JpYmVkIGluIDIwMDEuICBUaGUgZnVuZGFtZW50YWwgZ29hbA0KPiAgICBpcyBzZWxm LW1hbmFnZW1lbnQsIGluY2x1ZGluZyBzZWxmLWNvbmZpZ3VyYXRpb24sIHNlbGYtb3B0aW1pemF0 aW9uLA0KPiAgICBzZWxmLWhlYWxpbmcgYW5kIHNlbGYtcHJvdGVjdGlvbi4NCj4gDQo+ICAgIFRo aXMgZG9jdW1lbnQgYXBwbGllcyB0aGUgY29uY2VwdHMgb2YgYXV0b25vbWljIHN5c3RlbXMgdG8g YSBuZXR3b3JrLA0KPiAgICBhbmQgZGVzY3JpYmVzIHRoZSBkZWZpbml0aW9ucyBhbmQgZGVzaWdu IGdvYWxzIG9mIEF1dG9ub21pYw0KPiAgICBOZXR3b3JraW5nLiAgVGhlIGhpZ2gtbGV2ZWwgZ29h bCBmb3IgYW4gYXV0b25vbWljIGZ1bmN0aW9uIGlzIHRvIGhhdmUNCj4gICAgbWluaW1hbCBkZXBl bmRlbmNpZXMgb24gaHVtYW4gYWRtaW5pc3RyYXRvcnMgb3IgY2VudHJhbGl6ZWQNCj4gICAgbWFu YWdlbWVudCBzeXN0ZW1zLiAgVGhpcyB1c3VhbGx5IGltcGxpZXMgZGlzdHJpYnV0aW9uIGFjcm9z cyBuZXR3b3JrDQo+ICAgIGVsZW1lbnRzLg0KPiANCj4gDQo+IA0KPiANCj4gUGxlYXNlIG5vdGUg dGhhdCBpdCBtYXkgdGFrZSBhIGNvdXBsZSBvZiBtaW51dGVzIGZyb20gdGhlIHRpbWUgb2YNCj4g c3VibWlzc2lvbiB1bnRpbCB0aGUgaHRtbGl6ZWQgdmVyc2lvbiBhbmQgZGlmZiBhcmUgYXZhaWxh YmxlIGF0IHRvb2xzLmlldGYub3JnLg0KPiANCj4gVGhlIElFVEYgU2VjcmV0YXJpYXQNCg0K From nobody Sat Jun 28 14:25:06 2014 Return-Path: X-Original-To: nmrg@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: nmrg@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 33CC41A00A5 for ; 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Sat, 28 Jun 2014 21:24:54 +0000 From: Dean Bogdanovic To: Brian E Carpenter Thread-Topic: I-D Action: draft-bogdanovic-nmrg-mobile-backhaul-use-case-00.txt Thread-Index: AQHPko5VW0YUev070EW1SY6IIGMP5ZuHCbCA Date: Sat, 28 Jun 2014 21:24:54 +0000 Message-ID: References: <20140623165625.20901.29157.idtracker@ietfa.amsl.com> <53AE4C89.8000803@gmail.com> In-Reply-To: <53AE4C89.8000803@gmail.com> Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-mailer: Apple Mail (2.1510) x-originating-ip: [66.129.241.17] x-microsoft-antispam: BCL:0;PCL:0;RULEID: x-forefront-prvs: 0256C18696 x-forefront-antispam-report: SFV:NSPM; SFS:(6009001)(189002)(199002)(51704005)(377454003)(24454002)(81542001)(87936001)(50986999)(83716003)(76176999)(93916002)(81342001)(31966008)(74662001)(77982001)(87286001)(80022001)(76482001)(21056001)(64706001)(20776003)(46102001)(57306001)(79102001)(2656002)(99396002)(86362001)(88136002)(85852003)(101416001)(89996001)(36756003)(82746002)(66066001)(77096002)(74502001)(92566001)(85306003)(62966002)(99286002)(92726001)(4396001)(104166001)(95666004)(83322001)(19580405001)(77156001)(50226001)(83072002)(33656002)(107046002)(106116001)(105586002)(19580395003)(106356001)(104396001); DIR:OUT; SFP:; SCL:1; SRVR:BN1PR05MB422; H:BN1PR05MB424.namprd05.prod.outlook.com; FPR:; MLV:sfv; PTR:InfoNoRecords; MX:1; LANG:en; Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-ID: Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable MIME-Version: 1.0 X-OriginatorOrg: juniper.net Archived-At: http://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/nmrg/kFQc0XCcraSSWJDAnUkCFLFRaz0 Cc: "nmrg@irtf.org" , "anima@ietf.org" Subject: Re: [nmrg] I-D Action: draft-bogdanovic-nmrg-mobile-backhaul-use-case-00.txt X-BeenThere: nmrg@irtf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: Network Management Research Group discussion list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sat, 28 Jun 2014 21:25:05 -0000 One more time with right email address Brian, I'm aware of that issue, but today router is not aware of microwave managem= ent network. Where locally connected devices have some ideas how to figure = out, for remote devices have no idea how to get stats without SNMP. And man= agement networks are usually out of band.=20 I'm interested to hear how remote microwave devices could send counters inf= ormation using existing tools today, this is one part that I plan to look m= ore into it Dean On Jun 28, 2014, at 1:03 AM, Brian E Carpenter wrote: > (Sorry, retry with correct address) >=20 > Hi, >=20 > Thanks for this use case. I have one immediate comment. > In the section on "4.2. Information needed from policy intent" > you have listed the addresses of various units and ethernet ports. > I would expect that in an AN solution, all that would be discovered > automatically, and might even not be known centrally. In any case > I don't really see it as policy information. >=20 > Regards > Brian Carpenter >=20