From nobody Thu Jun 15 13:38:37 2017 Return-Path: X-Original-To: panic@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: panic@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9BF6A129455 for ; Thu, 15 Jun 2017 13:38:32 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -4.2 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-4.2 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-2.3, RP_MATCHES_RCVD=-0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id jmnlgKvOxjco for ; Thu, 15 Jun 2017 13:38:18 -0700 (PDT) Received: from z9m9z.htt-consult.com (z9m9z.htt-consult.com [50.253.254.3]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 8DD70129445 for ; Thu, 15 Jun 2017 13:38:15 -0700 (PDT) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by z9m9z.htt-consult.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id E500A623A8; Thu, 15 Jun 2017 16:38:13 -0400 (EDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at htt-consult.com Received: from z9m9z.htt-consult.com ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (z9m9z.htt-consult.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with LMTP id D4BR5DnPr3ra; Thu, 15 Jun 2017 16:37:58 -0400 (EDT) Received: from lx120e.htt-consult.com (unknown [192.168.160.12]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher DHE-RSA-AES128-SHA (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by z9m9z.htt-consult.com (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id EB715622AD; Thu, 15 Jun 2017 16:37:57 -0400 (EDT) To: "Waltermire, David A. (Fed)" , "Diego R. Lopez" References: <2c391fc46bca4900875ee3b0514df42b@XCH-ALN-010.cisco.com> <7ddec0441a2d492f979c27325dfe1fdb@XCH-ALN-010.cisco.com> Cc: "Panic@ietf.org" , "Panos Kampanakis (pkampana)" From: Robert Moskowitz Message-ID: <3c2c18cd-90a5-ed7f-d803-f2906f3d116b@htt-consult.com> Date: Thu, 15 Jun 2017 16:37:46 -0400 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; Linux x86_64; rv:45.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/45.8.0 MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="------------4F254326E6457B5F70B0ADC6" Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Panic] Scope Draft is Available X-BeenThere: panic@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 Precedence: list List-Id: "Posture Assessment Through Network Information Collection \(panic\)" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 15 Jun 2017 20:38:33 -0000 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --------------4F254326E6457B5F70B0ADC6 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=windows-1252; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit David, Do you have an update to your draft? I don't see anything past the Apr 11 01.txt draft. thanks On 05/19/2017 10:09 AM, Waltermire, David A. (Fed) wrote: > > Diego, thanks for the edits. > > All, > > I am going to drop this text into an update of the scope draft. I’ll > wait until Monday to work on posting the draft update. Please let me > know if any other changes to the draft are desired. > > Thanks, > > Dave > > *From:*Panic [mailto:panic-bounces@ietf.org] *On Behalf Of *Diego R. Lopez > *Sent:* Friday, May 19, 2017 2:23 AM > *To:* Waltermire, David A. (Fed) > *Cc:* Panic@ietf.org; Panos Kampanakis (pkampana) > *Subject:* Re: [Panic] Scope Draft is Available > > Hi, > > I agree with David’s proposal, with just a few minor changes with > respect to the original text, to make it more general, completely > covering the virtual cases (NFV) and eliminating the term “device” to > avoid too many equivalences... > > Network operators need to know what is connected to their > organization's networks so that they can properly manage those network > elements. Managing these network endpoints, consisting of physical and > virtual network infrastructure, requires access to information > pertaining to them, including endpoint identity, the identity of > software installed on the element, and the configuration setting > values for the installed software. This information can be collected > from different classes of elements over different protocols and using > different data models. PANIC will identify a standardized solution to > collect posture information for network element, and allow that > information to be shared with authorized users and elements on the > network supporting security automation. PANIC aims to reuse available > standards for posture assessment where possible. The PANIC effort will > avoid redefining information exchange technologies for use cases that > have already been defined. > > Be goode, > > On 18 May 2017, at 20:01 , Waltermire, David A. (Fed) > > wrote: > > Panos, thanks for providing text. > > We have participants that are approaching this problem space that > are accustomed to using endpoint and network element. How about > the following introduction text to draw an equivalence between > these terms? > > Network operators need to know what is connected to their > organization's networks so that they can properly manage those > network elements. Managing these network elements, consisting of > physical and virtual network infrastructure devices, requires > access to information pertaining to these endpoint devices, > including device identity, the identity of software installed on > the endpoint, and the configuration setting values for the > installed software. This information can be collected from > different classes of endpoints over different protocols and using > different data models. PANIC will identify a standardized solution > to collect posture information for network devices, and allow that > information to be shared with authorized users and devices on the > network supporting security automation. PANIC aims to reuse > available standards for posture assessment where possible. The > PANIC effort will avoid redefining information exchange > technologies for use cases that have already been defi > ned. > > Also, I added your text to the security considerations section. I > will post this in the -02 revision once we sort out the Introduction. > > Thanks, > Dave > > > -----Original Message----- > From: Panos Kampanakis (pkampana) [mailto:pkampana@cisco.com] > Sent: Thursday, May 18, 2017 12:30 PM > To: Waltermire, David A. (Fed) >; Panic@ietf.org > > Subject: RE: Scope Draft is Available > > ACK. Below some proposed text: > > For the Security Considerations Section: > Further discussion here will address the threat introduced > to the network > elements by the posture information collection. There should > be protections > implemented to prevent the element from being vulnerable to > DoS attacks > by frequent polling or pushing of posture data. > > For the Introduction Section: > ...automation. PANIC aims to reuse available standards for > posture > assessment where possible. It will avoid redefining info exchange > technologies for usecases that have already been defined. > > For the Introduction Section: > ...manage those > endpoints. Endpoints / Elements include hardware, software > of virtual > network infrastructure devices. > > > > > > hardware, software or virtual (NFV fails in this > > category) > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: Waltermire, David A. (Fed) > [mailto:david.waltermire@nist.gov] > Sent: Thursday, May 18, 2017 10:59 AM > To: Panos Kampanakis (pkampana) >; Panic@ietf.org > > Subject: RE: Scope Draft is Available > > Panos, > > Thank you for providing feedback on the PANIC scope draft. > > Comments are inline below. > > > -----Original Message----- > From: Panos Kampanakis (pkampana) [mailto:pkampana@cisco.com] > Sent: Thursday, May 18, 2017 10:37 AM > To: Waltermire, David A. (Fed) >; > Panic@ietf.org > Subject: RE: Scope Draft is Available > > Hi David, > > The document is clear. > > One semantic objection I have is about the use of the word > endpoint. I > believe the term is commonly used for user machines > (laptops, cells, > tablets) . Network element or element is a little clearer. > > > I don't have a dog in this fight. I am happy to go either way > (e.g., endpoint, > network element) if there is a preference in the group for one > term or the > other. I'd like to hear other opinions on this. > > > A susggestion: The security section could mention the > importance of > not introducing security concerns with the posture info > collection. > For example a device should not be DoSable by too many > polls, or it > should not push often enough that would introduce > performance concerns > > etc. > > I think this is a good idea. Do you have some text in mind to > drop in? > > > I think it will also be beneficial to be explicit about > the types of > network elements. In the broad technologies that exist > today, these > elements could be hardware, software or virtual (NFV fails > in this > category). All of those should be in scope for this work. > > > All of these are in scope in my view. > > > Side comment: I would like this standardization effort to > try to reuse > data formats and transports wherever possible and not come > up with new > posture information descriptions. I think this is a common > goal that > SACM has as well. > > > I share this goal as well. Should we document this in the draft? > > > Thanks, > Panos > > > Regards, > Dave > > > -----Original Message----- > From: Panic [mailto:panic-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of > Waltermire, > David A. (Fed) > Sent: Monday, May 15, 2017 11:03 AM > To: Panic@ietf.org > Subject: [Panic] Scope Draft is Available > > Welcome to the posture assessment through network information > collection > (PANIC) email list. At the side meeting on March 29th, we > started > discussing the problem of how to measure the health of network > devices. We discussed the need to collect posture > information from > network devices to support asset, software, vulnerability, and > configuration management use cases. We were asked by the > group to > share a more detailed description of the intended scope > for the PANIC > effort. The follow draft is an attempt to do > so: > > https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-waltermire-panic-scope/ > > We would appreciate review of and comments on this draft. > At this > point, we want to know if the this scope clearly defines > the problem to be > > solved. > > Please let us know if you have any questions or concerns, > or if you > think the scope draft is adequate. > > Regards, > David Waltermire > > _______________________________________________ > Panic mailing list > Panic@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/panic > > > _______________________________________________ > Panic mailing list > Panic@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/panic > > -- > "Esta vez no fallaremos, Doctor Infierno" > > Dr Diego R. Lopez > Telefonica I+D > http://people.tid.es/diego.lopez/ > > e-mail: diego.r.lopez@telefonica.com > Tel: +34 913 129 041 > Mobile: +34 682 051 091 > ---------------------------------- > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > > Este mensaje y sus adjuntos se dirigen exclusivamente a su > destinatario, puede contener información privilegiada o confidencial y > es para uso exclusivo de la persona o entidad de destino. Si no es > usted. el destinatario indicado, queda notificado de que la lectura, > utilización, divulgación y/o copia sin autorización puede estar > prohibida en virtud de la legislación vigente. Si ha recibido este > mensaje por error, le rogamos que nos lo comunique inmediatamente por > esta misma vía y proceda a su destrucción. > > The information contained in this transmission is privileged and > confidential information intended only for the use of the individual > or entity named above. If the reader of this message is not the > intended recipient, you are hereby notified that any dissemination, > distribution or copying of this communication is strictly prohibited. > If you have received this transmission in error, do not read it. > Please immediately reply to the sender that you have received this > communication in error and then delete it. > > Esta mensagem e seus anexos se dirigem exclusivamente ao seu > destinatário, pode conter informação privilegiada ou confidencial e é > para uso exclusivo da pessoa ou entidade de destino. Se não é vossa > senhoria o destinatário indicado, fica notificado de que a leitura, > utilização, divulgação e/ou cópia sem autorização pode estar proibida > em virtude da legislação vigente. Se recebeu esta mensagem por erro, > rogamos-lhe que nos o comunique imediatamente por esta mesma via e > proceda a sua destruição > > > > _______________________________________________ > Panic mailing list > Panic@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/panic --------------4F254326E6457B5F70B0ADC6 Content-Type: text/html; charset=windows-1252 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit David,

Do you have an update to your draft?

I don't see anything past the Apr 11 01.txt draft.

thanks

On 05/19/2017 10:09 AM, Waltermire, David A. (Fed) wrote:

Diego, thanks for the edits.

 

All,

I am going to drop this text into an update of the scope draft. I’ll wait until Monday to work on posting the draft update. Please let me know if any other changes to the draft are desired.

 

Thanks,

Dave

 

From: Panic [mailto:panic-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of Diego R. Lopez
Sent: Friday, May 19, 2017 2:23 AM
To: Waltermire, David A. (Fed) <david.waltermire@nist.gov>
Cc: Panic@ietf.org; Panos Kampanakis (pkampana) <pkampana@cisco.com>
Subject: Re: [Panic] Scope Draft is Available

 

Hi,

 

I agree with David’s proposal, with just a few minor changes with respect to the original text, to make it more general, completely covering the virtual cases (NFV) and eliminating the term “device” to avoid too many equivalences...

 

Network operators need to know what is connected to their organization's networks so that they can properly manage those network elements. Managing these network endpoints, consisting of physical and virtual network infrastructure, requires access to information pertaining to them, including endpoint identity, the identity of software installed on the element, and the configuration setting values for the installed software. This information can be collected from different classes of elements over different protocols and using different data models. PANIC will identify a standardized solution to collect posture information for network element, and allow that information to be shared with authorized users and elements on the network supporting security automation. PANIC aims to reuse available standards for posture assessment where possible. The PANIC effort will avoid redefining information exchange technologies for use cases that have already been defined.

 

Be goode,

 

On 18 May 2017, at 20:01 , Waltermire, David A. (Fed) <david.waltermire@nist.gov> wrote:

 

Panos, thanks for providing text.

We have participants that are approaching this problem space that are accustomed to using endpoint and network element. How about the following introduction text to draw an equivalence between these terms?

Network operators need to know what is connected to their organization's networks so that they can properly manage those network elements. Managing these network elements, consisting of physical and virtual network infrastructure devices, requires access to information pertaining to these endpoint devices, including device identity, the identity of software installed on the endpoint, and the configuration setting values for the installed software. This information can be collected from different classes of endpoints over different protocols and using different data models. PANIC will identify a standardized solution to collect posture information for network devices, and allow that information to be shared with authorized users and devices on the network supporting security automation. PANIC aims to reuse available standards for posture assessment where possible. The PANIC effort will avoid redefining information exchange technologies for use cases that have already been defi
ned.

Also, I added your text to the security considerations section. I will post this in the -02 revision once we sort out the Introduction.

Thanks,
Dave


-----Original Message-----
From: Panos Kampanakis (pkampana) [mailto:pkampana@cisco.com]
Sent: Thursday, May 18, 2017 12:30 PM
To: Waltermire, David A. (Fed) <david.waltermire@nist.gov>; Panic@ietf.org
Subject: RE: Scope Draft is Available

ACK. Below some proposed text:

For the Security Considerations Section:
  Further discussion here will address the threat introduced to the network
elements by the posture information collection. There should be protections
implemented to prevent the element from being vulnerable to DoS attacks
by frequent polling or pushing of posture data.

For the Introduction Section:
  ...automation. PANIC aims to reuse available standards for posture
assessment where possible. It will avoid redefining info exchange
technologies for usecases that have already been defined.

For the Introduction Section:
  ...manage those
  endpoints. Endpoints / Elements include hardware, software of virtual
network infrastructure devices.





hardware, software or virtual (NFV fails in this

category)



-----Original Message-----
From: Waltermire, David A. (Fed) [mailto:david.waltermire@nist.gov]
Sent: Thursday, May 18, 2017 10:59 AM
To: Panos Kampanakis (pkampana) <pkampana@cisco.com>; Panic@ietf.org
Subject: RE: Scope Draft is Available

Panos,

Thank you for providing feedback on the PANIC scope draft.

Comments are inline below.


-----Original Message-----
From: Panos Kampanakis (pkampana) [mailto:pkampana@cisco.com]
Sent: Thursday, May 18, 2017 10:37 AM
To: Waltermire, David A. (Fed) <david.waltermire@nist.gov>;
Panic@ietf.org
Subject: RE: Scope Draft is Available

Hi David,

The document is clear.

One semantic objection I have is about the use of the word endpoint. I
believe the term is commonly used for user machines (laptops, cells,
tablets) . Network element or element is a little clearer.


I don't have a dog in this fight. I am happy to go either way (e.g., endpoint,
network element) if there is a preference in the group for one term or the
other. I'd like to hear other opinions on this.


A susggestion: The security section could mention the importance of
not introducing security concerns with the posture info collection.
For example a device should not be DoSable by too many polls, or it
should not push often enough that would introduce performance concerns

etc.

I think this is a good idea. Do you have some text in mind to drop in?


I think it will also be beneficial to be explicit about the types of
network elements. In the broad technologies that exist today, these
elements could be hardware, software or virtual (NFV fails in this
category). All of those should be in scope for this work.


All of these are in scope in my view.


Side comment: I would like this standardization effort to try to reuse
data formats and transports wherever possible and not come up with new
posture information descriptions. I think this is a common goal that
SACM has as well.


I share this goal as well. Should we document this in the draft?


Thanks,
Panos


Regards,
Dave


-----Original Message-----
From: Panic [mailto:panic-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of Waltermire,
David A. (Fed)
Sent: Monday, May 15, 2017 11:03 AM
To: Panic@ietf.org
Subject: [Panic] Scope Draft is Available

Welcome to the posture assessment through network information
collection
(PANIC) email list. At the side meeting on March 29th, we started
discussing the problem of how to measure the health of network
devices. We discussed the need to collect posture information from
network devices to support asset, software, vulnerability, and
configuration management use cases. We were asked by the group to
share a more detailed description of the intended scope for the PANIC
effort. The follow draft is an attempt to do
so:

https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-waltermire-panic-scope/

We would appreciate review of and comments on this draft. At this
point, we want to know if the this scope clearly defines the problem to be

solved.

Please let us know if you have any questions or concerns, or if you
think the scope draft is adequate.

Regards,
David Waltermire

_______________________________________________
Panic mailing list
Panic@ietf.org
https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/panic


_______________________________________________
Panic mailing list
Panic@ietf.org
https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/panic

 

--
"Esta vez no fallaremos, Doctor Infierno"

Dr Diego R. Lopez
Telefonica I+D
http://people.tid.es/diego.lopez/

e-mail: diego.r.lopez@telefonica.com
Tel:    +34 913 129 041
Mobile: +34 682 051 091
----------------------------------

 

 


Este mensaje y sus adjuntos se dirigen exclusivamente a su destinatario, puede contener información privilegiada o confidencial y es para uso exclusivo de la persona o entidad de destino. Si no es usted. el destinatario indicado, queda notificado de que la lectura, utilización, divulgación y/o copia sin autorización puede estar prohibida en virtud de la legislación vigente. Si ha recibido este mensaje por error, le rogamos que nos lo comunique inmediatamente por esta misma vía y proceda a su destrucción.

The information contained in this transmission is privileged and confidential information intended only for the use of the individual or entity named above. If the reader of this message is not the intended recipient, you are hereby notified that any dissemination, distribution or copying of this communication is strictly prohibited. If you have received this transmission in error, do not read it. Please immediately reply to the sender that you have received this communication in error and then delete it.

Esta mensagem e seus anexos se dirigem exclusivamente ao seu destinatário, pode conter informação privilegiada ou confidencial e é para uso exclusivo da pessoa ou entidade de destino. Se não é vossa senhoria o destinatário indicado, fica notificado de que a leitura, utilização, divulgação e/ou cópia sem autorização pode estar proibida em virtude da legislação vigente. Se recebeu esta mensagem por erro, rogamos-lhe que nos o comunique imediatamente por esta mesma via e proceda a sua destruição



_______________________________________________
Panic mailing list
Panic@ietf.org
https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/panic

--------------4F254326E6457B5F70B0ADC6-- From nobody Fri Jun 16 11:46:38 2017 Return-Path: X-Original-To: panic@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: panic@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1F01B1300E8 for ; Fri, 16 Jun 2017 11:46:36 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -4.202 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-4.202 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-2.3, RP_MATCHES_RCVD=-0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 8jbs2ZjSYesI for ; Fri, 16 Jun 2017 11:46:32 -0700 (PDT) Received: from z9m9z.htt-consult.com (z9m9z.htt-consult.com [50.253.254.3]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id A04171315FC for ; Fri, 16 Jun 2017 11:46:26 -0700 (PDT) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by z9m9z.htt-consult.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 86FC562429; Fri, 16 Jun 2017 14:46:24 -0400 (EDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at htt-consult.com Received: from z9m9z.htt-consult.com ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (z9m9z.htt-consult.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with LMTP id sBwS3q4rlYfX; Fri, 16 Jun 2017 14:46:17 -0400 (EDT) Received: from lx120e.htt-consult.com (unknown [192.168.160.12]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher DHE-RSA-AES128-SHA (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by z9m9z.htt-consult.com (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 705646240F; Fri, 16 Jun 2017 14:46:16 -0400 (EDT) To: "Waltermire, David A. (Fed)" , "Panic@ietf.org" References: From: Robert Moskowitz Message-ID: Date: Fri, 16 Jun 2017 14:46:12 -0400 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; Linux x86_64; rv:45.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/45.8.0 MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=windows-1252; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Panic] Scope Draft is Available X-BeenThere: panic@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 Precedence: list List-Id: "Posture Assessment Through Network Information Collection \(panic\)" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 16 Jun 2017 18:46:36 -0000 The draft is very confusing. We already have NETCONF/RESTCONF. What does PANIC provide that these do not? I am ASSuMEing that there is a need of more than the NETCONF/RESTCONF data model and protocol(s). This needs to be spelled out. Is PANIC in competition with NETCONF/RESTCONF? Is PANIC a bolt-on to NETCONF/RESTCONF? Is PANIC totally orthogonal to NETCONF/RESTCONF? It seems that the meeting we had in Chicago pointed that it woud deal with data not included in the NETCONF/RESTCONF data model. It would have specific security posture implecations whereas NETCONF/RESTCONF is more focused on the running of infrastructure gear. Can we get this into the draft before Prague? Bob On 05/15/2017 11:03 AM, Waltermire, David A. (Fed) wrote: > Welcome to the posture assessment through network information collection (PANIC) email list. At the side meeting on March 29th, we started discussing the problem of how to measure the health of network devices. We discussed the need to collect posture information from network devices to support asset, software, vulnerability, and configuration management use cases. We were asked by the group to share a more detailed description of the intended scope for the PANIC effort. The follow draft is an attempt to do so: > > https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-waltermire-panic-scope/ > > We would appreciate review of and comments on this draft. At this point, we want to know if the this scope clearly defines the problem to be solved. Please let us know if you have any questions or concerns, or if you think the scope draft is adequate. > > Regards, > David Waltermire > > _______________________________________________ > Panic mailing list > Panic@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/panic From nobody Fri Jun 16 12:11:22 2017 Return-Path: X-Original-To: panic@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: panic@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 708D61293E4 for ; Fri, 16 Jun 2017 12:11:20 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.891 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.891 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, SPF_HELO_PASS=-0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, T_KAM_HTML_FONT_INVALID=0.01] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (1024-bit key) header.d=nistgov.onmicrosoft.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id zslvJgMBf4ms for ; Fri, 16 Jun 2017 12:11:16 -0700 (PDT) Received: from gcc01-dm2-obe.outbound.protection.outlook.com (mail-dm2gcc01on0105.outbound.protection.outlook.com [23.103.201.105]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 7D5E9127275 for ; Fri, 16 Jun 2017 12:11:16 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=nistgov.onmicrosoft.com; s=selector1-nist-gov; h=From:Date:Subject:Message-ID:Content-Type:MIME-Version; bh=sCJADiqOURqojYv4ONMEHJpe5zjg1EIK+oE5+YhugLI=; b=juuG7xcEdkZ6/iVSFIk2PP2By1Wvy03o/N3130wP7X8gdyFsrapZFwbvAfVGtjRrOOGHZH9eP812QIkrPpHLTvr3zST8I2LNjEYhr5UJdoFS4XasJ10R2t9F+hdw7cSmjmlqp9EHkvek8o0vI+dwBj2j1egMCEFC9r99yh3F/5I= Received: from MWHPR09MB1440.namprd09.prod.outlook.com (10.173.50.14) by MWHPR09MB1438.namprd09.prod.outlook.com (10.173.50.12) with Microsoft SMTP Server (version=TLS1_2, cipher=TLS_ECDHE_RSA_WITH_AES_128_CBC_SHA256_P256) id 15.1.1178.14; Fri, 16 Jun 2017 19:11:14 +0000 Received: from MWHPR09MB1440.namprd09.prod.outlook.com ([10.173.50.14]) by MWHPR09MB1440.namprd09.prod.outlook.com ([10.173.50.14]) with mapi id 15.01.1178.018; Fri, 16 Jun 2017 19:11:14 +0000 From: "Waltermire, David A. (Fed)" To: Robert Moskowitz , "Diego R. Lopez" CC: "Panic@ietf.org" , "Panos Kampanakis (pkampana)" Thread-Topic: [Panic] Scope Draft is Available Thread-Index: AdLNjFoi4UJSdMycRuOkrf0darmESQBj41DwADKpxpAAAE3vkAAGERdgABoV6IAAECSYQAVbkpAAAC8pwaA= Date: Fri, 16 Jun 2017 19:11:14 +0000 Message-ID: References: <2c391fc46bca4900875ee3b0514df42b@XCH-ALN-010.cisco.com> <7ddec0441a2d492f979c27325dfe1fdb@XCH-ALN-010.cisco.com> <3c2c18cd-90a5-ed7f-d803-f2906f3d116b@htt-consult.com> In-Reply-To: <3c2c18cd-90a5-ed7f-d803-f2906f3d116b@htt-consult.com> Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: authentication-results: htt-consult.com; dkim=none (message not signed) header.d=none;htt-consult.com; dmarc=none action=none header.from=nist.gov; x-originating-ip: [129.6.224.58] x-ms-publictraffictype: Email x-microsoft-exchange-diagnostics: 1; MWHPR09MB1438; 7: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 x-ms-office365-filtering-correlation-id: e3f0001b-0784-41dc-1495-08d4b4eb7534 x-ms-office365-filtering-ht: Tenant x-microsoft-antispam: UriScan:; BCL:0; PCL:0; RULEID:(22001)(2017030254075)(48565401081)(201703131423075)(201703031133081)(201702281549075); SRVR:MWHPR09MB1438; x-ms-traffictypediagnostic: MWHPR09MB1438: x-microsoft-antispam-prvs: x-exchange-antispam-report-test: UriScan:(40392960112811)(65766998875637)(120809045254105)(192374486261705)(131327999870524)(95692535739014)(21748063052155); x-exchange-antispam-report-cfa-test: BCL:0; PCL:0; RULEID:(100000700101)(100105000095)(100000701101)(100105300095)(100000702101)(100105100095)(6040450)(601004)(2401047)(5005006)(8121501046)(93006095)(93001095)(10201501046)(3002001)(100000703101)(100105400095)(6055026)(6041248)(20161123564025)(20161123558100)(20161123562025)(20161123555025)(20161123560025)(201703131423075)(201702281528075)(201703061421075)(201703061406153)(6072148)(100000704101)(100105200095)(100000705101)(100105500095); SRVR:MWHPR09MB1438; BCL:0; PCL:0; RULEID:(100000800101)(100110000095)(100000801101)(100110300095)(100000802101)(100110100095)(100000803101)(100110400095)(100000804101)(100110200095)(100000805101)(100110500095); SRVR:MWHPR09MB1438; x-forefront-prvs: 0340850FCD x-forefront-antispam-report: SFV:NSPM; SFS:(10019020)(39840400002)(39850400002)(39410400002)(39400400002)(39860400002)(39450400003)(40134004)(13464003)(252514010)(377454003)(24454002)(81166006)(9326002)(25786009)(236005)(77096006)(8676002)(2906002)(38730400002)(53546009)(345774005)(2900100001)(8936002)(7736002)(3280700002)(102836003)(14454004)(5660300001)(86362001)(122556002)(6436002)(6506006)(33656002)(790700001)(7696004)(229853002)(54896002)(2950100002)(3660700001)(93886004)(6306002)(561944003)(74316002)(478600001)(9686003)(99286003)(4326008)(7906003)(966005)(54906002)(50986999)(3846002)(54356999)(53936002)(66066001)(606005)(6116002)(6246003)(76176999)(55016002)(189998001); DIR:OUT; SFP:1102; SCL:1; SRVR:MWHPR09MB1438; H:MWHPR09MB1440.namprd09.prod.outlook.com; FPR:; SPF:None; MLV:sfv; LANG:en; spamdiagnosticoutput: 1:99 spamdiagnosticmetadata: NSPM Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="_000_MWHPR09MB1440989ACF09FB9BADB8747EF0C10MWHPR09MB1440namp_" MIME-Version: 1.0 X-OriginatorOrg: nist.gov X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-originalarrivaltime: 16 Jun 2017 19:11:14.1494 (UTC) X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-fromentityheader: Hosted X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-id: 2ab5d82f-d8fa-4797-a93e-054655c61dec X-MS-Exchange-Transport-CrossTenantHeadersStamped: MWHPR09MB1438 Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Panic] Scope Draft is Available X-BeenThere: panic@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 Precedence: list List-Id: "Posture Assessment Through Network Information Collection \(panic\)" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 16 Jun 2017 19:11:20 -0000 --_000_MWHPR09MB1440989ACF09FB9BADB8747EF0C10MWHPR09MB1440namp_ Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hi Bob, Thanks for asking. We have been working on an update. We hope to post it so= on addressing the feedback we have received so far, including addressing th= e comments from your other email today. Thanks, Dave From: Robert Moskowitz [mailto:rgm-sec@htt-consult.com] Sent: Thursday, June 15, 2017 4:38 PM To: Waltermire, David A. (Fed) ; Diego R. Lopez = Cc: Panic@ietf.org; Panos Kampanakis (pkampana) Subject: Re: [Panic] Scope Draft is Available David, Do you have an update to your draft? I don't see anything past the Apr 11 01.txt draft. thanks On 05/19/2017 10:09 AM, Waltermire, David A. (Fed) wrote: Diego, thanks for the edits. All, I am going to drop this text into an update of the scope draft. I'll wait u= ntil Monday to work on posting the draft update. Please let me know if any = other changes to the draft are desired. Thanks, Dave From: Panic [mailto:panic-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of Diego R. Lopez Sent: Friday, May 19, 2017 2:23 AM To: Waltermire, David A. (Fed) Cc: Panic@ietf.org; Panos Kampanakis (pkampana) Subject: Re: [Panic] Scope Draft is Available Hi, I agree with David's proposal, with just a few minor changes with respect t= o the original text, to make it more general, completely covering the virtu= al cases (NFV) and eliminating the term "device" to avoid too many equivale= nces... Network operators need to know what is connected to their organization's ne= tworks so that they can properly manage those network elements. Managing th= ese network endpoints, consisting of physical and virtual network infrastru= cture, requires access to information pertaining to them, including endpoin= t identity, the identity of software installed on the element, and the conf= iguration setting values for the installed software. This information can b= e collected from different classes of elements over different protocols and= using different data models. PANIC will identify a standardized solution t= o collect posture information for network element, and allow that informati= on to be shared with authorized users and elements on the network supportin= g security automation. PANIC aims to reuse available standards for posture = assessment where possible. The PANIC effort will avoid redefining informati= on exchange technologies for use cases that have already been defined. Be goode, On 18 May 2017, at 20:01 , Waltermire, David A. (Fed) > wrote: Panos, thanks for providing text. We have participants that are approaching this problem space that are accus= tomed to using endpoint and network element. How about the following introd= uction text to draw an equivalence between these terms? Network operators need to know what is connected to their organization's ne= tworks so that they can properly manage those network elements. Managing th= ese network elements, consisting of physical and virtual network infrastruc= ture devices, requires access to information pertaining to these endpoint d= evices, including device identity, the identity of software installed on th= e endpoint, and the configuration setting values for the installed software= . This information can be collected from different classes of endpoints ove= r different protocols and using different data models. PANIC will identify = a standardized solution to collect posture information for network devices,= and allow that information to be shared with authorized users and devices = on the network supporting security automation. PANIC aims to reuse availabl= e standards for posture assessment where possible. The PANIC effort will av= oid redefining information exchange technologies for use cases that have al= ready been defi ned. Also, I added your text to the security considerations section. I will post= this in the -02 revision once we sort out the Introduction. Thanks, Dave -----Original Message----- From: Panos Kampanakis (pkampana) [mailto:pkampana@cisco.com] Sent: Thursday, May 18, 2017 12:30 PM To: Waltermire, David A. (Fed) >; Panic@ietf.org Subject: RE: Scope Draft is Available ACK. Below some proposed text: For the Security Considerations Section: Further discussion here will address the threat introduced to the network elements by the posture information collection. There should be protections implemented to prevent the element from being vulnerable to DoS attacks by frequent polling or pushing of posture data. For the Introduction Section: ...automation. PANIC aims to reuse available standards for posture assessment where possible. It will avoid redefining info exchange technologies for usecases that have already been defined. For the Introduction Section: ...manage those endpoints. Endpoints / Elements include hardware, software of virtual network infrastructure devices. hardware, software or virtual (NFV fails in this category) -----Original Message----- From: Waltermire, David A. (Fed) [mailto:david.waltermire@nist.gov] Sent: Thursday, May 18, 2017 10:59 AM To: Panos Kampanakis (pkampana) >; Panic@ietf.org Subject: RE: Scope Draft is Available Panos, Thank you for providing feedback on the PANIC scope draft. Comments are inline below. -----Original Message----- From: Panos Kampanakis (pkampana) [mailto:pkampana@cisco.com] Sent: Thursday, May 18, 2017 10:37 AM To: Waltermire, David A. (Fed) >; Panic@ietf.org Subject: RE: Scope Draft is Available Hi David, The document is clear. One semantic objection I have is about the use of the word endpoint. I believe the term is commonly used for user machines (laptops, cells, tablets) . Network element or element is a little clearer. I don't have a dog in this fight. I am happy to go either way (e.g., endpoi= nt, network element) if there is a preference in the group for one term or the other. I'd like to hear other opinions on this. A susggestion: The security section could mention the importance of not introducing security concerns with the posture info collection. For example a device should not be DoSable by too many polls, or it should not push often enough that would introduce performance concerns etc. I think this is a good idea. Do you have some text in mind to drop in? I think it will also be beneficial to be explicit about the types of network elements. In the broad technologies that exist today, these elements could be hardware, software or virtual (NFV fails in this category). All of those should be in scope for this work. All of these are in scope in my view. Side comment: I would like this standardization effort to try to reuse data formats and transports wherever possible and not come up with new posture information descriptions. I think this is a common goal that SACM has as well. I share this goal as well. Should we document this in the draft? Thanks, Panos Regards, Dave -----Original Message----- From: Panic [mailto:panic-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of Waltermire, David A. (Fed) Sent: Monday, May 15, 2017 11:03 AM To: Panic@ietf.org Subject: [Panic] Scope Draft is Available Welcome to the posture assessment through network information collection (PANIC) email list. At the side meeting on March 29th, we started discussing the problem of how to measure the health of network devices. We discussed the need to collect posture information from network devices to support asset, software, vulnerability, and configuration management use cases. We were asked by the group to share a more detailed description of the intended scope for the PANIC effort. The follow draft is an attempt to do so: https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-waltermire-panic-scope/ We would appreciate review of and comments on this draft. At this point, we want to know if the this scope clearly defines the problem to be solved. Please let us know if you have any questions or concerns, or if you think the scope draft is adequate. Regards, David Waltermire _______________________________________________ Panic mailing list Panic@ietf.org https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/panic _______________________________________________ Panic mailing list Panic@ietf.org https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/panic -- "Esta vez no fallaremos, Doctor Infierno" Dr Diego R. Lopez Telefonica I+D http://people.tid.es/diego.lopez/ e-mail: diego.r.lopez@telefonica.com Tel: +34 913 129 041 Mobile: +34 682 051 091 ---------------------------------- ________________________________ Este mensaje y sus adjuntos se dirigen exclusivamente a su destinatario, pu= ede contener informaci=F3n privilegiada o confidencial y es para uso exclus= ivo de la persona o entidad de destino. Si no es usted. el destinatario ind= icado, queda notificado de que la lectura, utilizaci=F3n, divulgaci=F3n y/o= copia sin autorizaci=F3n puede estar prohibida en virtud de la legislaci= =F3n vigente. Si ha recibido este mensaje por error, le rogamos que nos lo = comunique inmediatamente por esta misma v=EDa y proceda a su destrucci=F3n. The information contained in this transmission is privileged and confidenti= al information intended only for the use of the individual or entity named = above. If the reader of this message is not the intended recipient, you are= hereby notified that any dissemination, distribution or copying of this co= mmunication is strictly prohibited. If you have received this transmission = in error, do not read it. Please immediately reply to the sender that you h= ave received this communication in error and then delete it. Esta mensagem e seus anexos se dirigem exclusivamente ao seu destinat=E1rio= , pode conter informa=E7=E3o privilegiada ou confidencial e =E9 para uso ex= clusivo da pessoa ou entidade de destino. Se n=E3o =E9 vossa senhoria o des= tinat=E1rio indicado, fica notificado de que a leitura, utiliza=E7=E3o, div= ulga=E7=E3o e/ou c=F3pia sem autoriza=E7=E3o pode estar proibida em virtude= da legisla=E7=E3o vigente. Se recebeu esta mensagem por erro, rogamos-lhe = que nos o comunique imediatamente por esta mesma via e proceda a sua destru= i=E7=E3o _______________________________________________ Panic mailing list Panic@ietf.org https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/panic --_000_MWHPR09MB1440989ACF09FB9BADB8747EF0C10MWHPR09MB1440namp_ Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

Hi Bob,

 

Thanks for asking. We have been wo= rking on an update. We hope to post it soon addressing the feedback we have= received so far, including addressing the comments from your other email today.

 

Thanks,

Dave

 

From: Robert Moskowitz [mailto:rgm-sec@htt-consult.com]
Sent: Thursday, June 15, 2017 4:38 PM
To: Waltermire, David A. (Fed) <david.waltermire@nist.gov>; Di= ego R. Lopez <diego.r.lopez@telefonica.com>
Cc: Panic@ietf.org; Panos Kampanakis (pkampana) <pkampana@cisco.c= om>
Subject: Re: [Panic] Scope Draft is Available

 

David,

Do you have an update to your draft?

I don't see anything past the Apr 11 01.txt draft.

thanks

On 05/19/2017 10:09 AM, Waltermire, David A. (Fed) w= rote:

Diego, thanks for the edits.

 

All,


I am going to drop this text into an update of the = scope draft. I’ll wait until Monday to work on posting the draft upda= te. Please let me know if any other changes to the draft are desired.

 

Thanks,

Dave

 

From: Panic [mailto:panic-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of Diego R. Lopez
Sent: Friday, May 19, 2017 2:23 AM
To: Waltermire, David A. (Fed) <david.waltermire@nist.gov>
Cc: Panic@ietf.org; Panos Kamp= anakis (pkampana) <pkampana@cisco.com>
Subject: Re: [Panic] Scope Draft is Available

 

Hi,

 

I agree with David’s proposal, with just a few= minor changes with respect to the original text, to make it more general, = completely covering the virtual cases (NFV) and eliminating the term “= ;device” to avoid too many equivalences...

 

Network operators need to know what is connected to = their organization's networks so that they can properly manage those networ= k elements. Managing these network endpoints, consisting of physical and vi= rtual network infrastructure, requires access to information pertaining to them, including endpoint identity, the= identity of software installed on the element, and the configuration setti= ng values for the installed software. This information can be collected fro= m different classes of elements over different protocols and using different data models. PANIC will ident= ify a standardized solution to collect posture information for network elem= ent, and allow that information to be shared with authorized users and elem= ents on the network supporting security automation. PANIC aims to reuse available standards for posture assessment= where possible. The PANIC effort will avoid redefining information exchang= e technologies for use cases that have already been defined.

 

Be goode,

 

On 18 May 2017, at 20:01 , Waltermire, David A. (Fed= ) <david.waltermire@nist.go= v> wrote:

 

Panos, thanks for providing text.

We have participants that are approaching this problem space that are accus= tomed to using endpoint and network element. How about the following introd= uction text to draw an equivalence between these terms?

Network operators need to know what is connected to their organization's ne= tworks so that they can properly manage those network elements. Managing th= ese network elements, consisting of physical and virtual network infrastruc= ture devices, requires access to information pertaining to these endpoint devices, including device identit= y, the identity of software installed on the endpoint, and the configuratio= n setting values for the installed software. This information can be collec= ted from different classes of endpoints over different protocols and using different data models. PANIC will ident= ify a standardized solution to collect posture information for network devi= ces, and allow that information to be shared with authorized users and devi= ces on the network supporting security automation. PANIC aims to reuse available standards for posture assessment= where possible. The PANIC effort will avoid redefining information exchang= e technologies for use cases that have already been defi
ned.

Also, I added your text to the security considerations section. I will post= this in the -02 revision once we sort out the Introduction.

Thanks,
Dave



-----Original Message-----
From: Panos Kampanakis (pkampana) [ma= ilto:pkampana@cisco.com]
Sent: Thursday, May 18, 2017 12:30 PM
To: Waltermire, David A. (Fed) <david.waltermire@nist.gov>; Panic@ietf.org
Subject: RE: Scope Draft is Available

ACK. Below some proposed text:

For the Security Considerations Section:
  Further discussion here will address the threat introduced to t= he network
elements by the posture information collection. There should be protections=
implemented to prevent the element from being vulnerable to DoS attacks
by frequent polling or pushing of posture data.

For the Introduction Section:
  ...automation. PANIC aims to reuse available standards for post= ure
assessment where possible. It will avoid redefining info exchange
technologies for usecases that have already been defined.

For the Introduction Section:
  ...manage those
  endpoints. Endpoints / Elements include hardware, software of v= irtual
network infrastructure devices.





hardware, software or virtual (NFV fails in this


category)



-----Original Message-----
From: Waltermire, David A. (Fed) [mailto:david.waltermire@nist.gov]
Sent: Thursday, May 18, 2017 10:59 AM
To: Panos Kampanakis (pkampana) <p= kampana@cisco.com>; Panic@ietf.org
Subject: RE: Scope Draft is Available

Panos,

Thank you for providing feedback on the PANIC scope draft.

Comments are inline below.



-----Original Message-----
From: Panos Kampanakis (pkampana) [ma= ilto:pkampana@cisco.com]
Sent: Thursday, May 18, 2017 10:37 AM
To: Waltermire, David A. (Fed) <david.waltermire@nist.gov>;
Panic@ietf.org
Subject: RE: Scope Draft is Available

Hi David,

The document is clear.

One semantic objection I have is about the use of the word endpoint. I
believe the term is commonly used for user machines (laptops, cells,
tablets) . Network element or element is a little clearer.


I don't have a dog in this fight. I am happy to go either way (e.g., endpoi= nt,
network element) if there is a preference in the group for one term or the<= br> other. I'd like to hear other opinions on this.



A susggestion: The security section could mention th= e importance of
not introducing security concerns with the posture info collection.
For example a device should not be DoSable by too many polls, or it
should not push often enough that would introduce performance concerns=

etc.

I think this is a good idea. Do you have some text in mind to drop in?



I think it will also be beneficial to be explicit ab= out the types of
network elements. In the broad technologies that exist today, these
elements could be hardware, software or virtual (NFV fails in this
category). All of those should be in scope for this work.


All of these are in scope in my view.



Side comment: I would like this standardization effo= rt to try to reuse
data formats and transports wherever possible and not come up with new
posture information descriptions. I think this is a common goal that
SACM has as well.


I share this goal as well. Should we document this in the draft?



Thanks,
Panos


Regards,
Dave



-----Original Message-----
From: Panic [mailto:panic-bounces= @ietf.org] On Behalf Of Waltermire,
David A. (Fed)
Sent: Monday, May 15, 2017 11:03 AM
To: Panic@ietf.org
Subject: [Panic] Scope Draft is Available

Welcome to the posture assessment through network information
collection
(PANIC) email list. At the side meeting on March 29th, we started
discussing the problem of how to measure the health of network
devices. We discussed the need to collect posture information from
network devices to support asset, software, vulnerability, and
configuration management use cases. We were asked by the group to
share a more detailed description of the intended scope for the PANIC
effort. The follow draft is an attempt to do
so:

= https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-waltermire-panic-scope/

We would appreciate review of and comments on this draft. At this
point, we want to know if the this scope clearly defines the problem to be<= o:p>

solved.


Please let us know if you have any questions or conc= erns, or if you
think the scope draft is adequate.

Regards,
David Waltermire

_______________________________________________
Panic mailing list
Panic@ietf.org
https://www.ietf.or= g/mailman/listinfo/panic


_______________________________________________
Panic mailing list
Panic@ietf.org
https://www.ietf.or= g/mailman/listinfo/panic

 

--
"Esta vez no fallaremos, Doctor Infierno"

Dr Diego R. Lopez
Telefonica I+D
http://people.tid.es/diego.lo= pez/

e-mail: diego.r.lopez@telef= onica.com
Tel:    +34 913 129 041
Mobile: +34 682 051 091
----------------------------------

 

 


Este mensaje y sus adjuntos se dirigen exclusivamente a su destinatario, pu= ede contener informaci=F3n privilegiada o confidencial y es para uso exclus= ivo de la persona o entidad de destino. Si no es usted. el destinatario ind= icado, queda notificado de que la lectura, utilizaci=F3n, divulgaci=F3n y/o copia sin autorizaci=F3n puede e= star prohibida en virtud de la legislaci=F3n vigente. Si ha recibido este m= ensaje por error, le rogamos que nos lo comunique inmediatamente por esta m= isma v=EDa y proceda a su destrucci=F3n.

The information contained in this transmission is privileged and confidenti= al information intended only for the use of the individual or entity named = above. If the reader of this message is not the intended recipient, you are= hereby notified that any dissemination, distribution or copying of this communication is strictly prohibited. If y= ou have received this transmission in error, do not read it. Please immedia= tely reply to the sender that you have received this communication in error= and then delete it.

Esta mensagem e seus anexos se dirigem exclusivamente ao seu destinat=E1rio= , pode conter informa=E7=E3o privilegiada ou confidencial e =E9 para uso ex= clusivo da pessoa ou entidade de destino. Se n=E3o =E9 vossa senhoria o des= tinat=E1rio indicado, fica notificado de que a leitura, utiliza=E7=E3o, divulga=E7=E3o e/ou c=F3pia sem autoriza=E7=E3o p= ode estar proibida em virtude da legisla=E7=E3o vigente. Se recebeu esta me= nsagem por erro, rogamos-lhe que nos o comunique imediatamente por esta mes= ma via e proceda a sua destrui=E7=E3o




_______________________________________________
Panic mailing list
Panic@ietf.org
https://www.ie=
tf.org/mailman/listinfo/panic

 

--_000_MWHPR09MB1440989ACF09FB9BADB8747EF0C10MWHPR09MB1440namp_-- From nobody Mon Jun 26 07:47:30 2017 Return-Path: X-Original-To: panic@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: panic@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0EB86124217 for ; Mon, 26 Jun 2017 07:47:28 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.987 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.987 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, HK_RANDOM_ENVFROM=0.001, HK_RANDOM_FROM=0.001, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, T_KAM_HTML_FONT_INVALID=0.01] autolearn=no autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=gmail.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 93icBsqTRxXw for ; Mon, 26 Jun 2017 07:47:24 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail-ua0-x230.google.com (mail-ua0-x230.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:400c:c08::230]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 695A212EACA for ; Mon, 26 Jun 2017 07:47:24 -0700 (PDT) Received: by mail-ua0-x230.google.com with SMTP id j53so2191306uaa.2 for ; Mon, 26 Jun 2017 07:47:24 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20161025; h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:from:date:message-id:subject:to :cc; bh=WVkyweDzCqw4u9u2dl8Wu9oBDJufm6nny/OmcMvdQF0=; b=Ig8MwsibFVEC2JAhJNfwRhJc2q0e2yzPwetQKqjEw9jky8H67uEWPWX5zL8xav2Qyi 9kpO6xz3VAK00PrUW2NdhqPIXEUHK+P2H0H+ITVJppIY51YTZgG0amFO4OPuMTIMJ7z/ KZEJbxN0tCuI8d5QemX1b4vOHWEgf0YmZegfEMv1iifIKX+9Xm0jmBuK3Gav43sb56qV 4CvnuoWeDNbQQTZF7oV/zEm6uDTpKEXC+UfwrdYW/ROyptNqGVyZ5DfrYXgCLC8zyYGu invrq+vyxTAPOLDa9chPYr3i99YVTmnWLSOzv4kJxwk8x4nFKqSOxplceZ2Kr/vR7iAF NRdQ== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:in-reply-to:references:from:date :message-id:subject:to:cc; bh=WVkyweDzCqw4u9u2dl8Wu9oBDJufm6nny/OmcMvdQF0=; b=iZ7VYQ0pEmwVOwflgvt/HmaaZg22+2qZ+Vzl+WMTeu7FBwcRmH1sadFAWhZ83QYhAS 37F1VXFiutp83yZTKKuGY4aCzoMgBF0CoO2zPZJDa/IP85myjuZLZZzI797fo/12Ex7k NUTUF6L/E85cvqJOiLpTOhIUVo5LmdVrQpVhRyCJwPbs2FEnvd2iUkz11Z9P/0VImXhR GNosY0NflFg1XNTz7UG7wA3cITsHP4ax25IosKKCQM4YFYkB+qoXdu0JJXSk0pvS0PAj KPZTvlxf9M9X6H0Hn3dVV8+WA/eKEQmrLWRxIAXlBzc6odusZ/BeynCexZsO/JqpGubY w3Lw== X-Gm-Message-State: AKS2vOyp9HtLBJTwlgOk1vlDlo8mD1N25NCzCALN9Od9CPghYcy9dy1q Zuu89/+8PJO5RJFiWwEExPr7vQRwLA== X-Received: by 10.176.67.98 with SMTP id k89mr314568uak.103.1498488443306; Mon, 26 Jun 2017 07:47:23 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.176.83.93 with HTTP; Mon, 26 Jun 2017 07:47:22 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: References: <2c391fc46bca4900875ee3b0514df42b@XCH-ALN-010.cisco.com> <7ddec0441a2d492f979c27325dfe1fdb@XCH-ALN-010.cisco.com> <3c2c18cd-90a5-ed7f-d803-f2906f3d116b@htt-consult.com> From: Jessica Fitzgerald-McKay Date: Mon, 26 Jun 2017 10:47:22 -0400 Message-ID: To: "Waltermire, David A. (Fed)" Cc: Robert Moskowitz , "Diego R. Lopez" , "Panic@ietf.org" , "Panos Kampanakis (pkampana)" Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="94eb2c0b8d5e5d0bdd0552de07ba" Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Panic] Scope Draft is Available X-BeenThere: panic@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 Precedence: list List-Id: "Posture Assessment Through Network Information Collection \(panic\)" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 26 Jun 2017 14:47:28 -0000 --94eb2c0b8d5e5d0bdd0552de07ba Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable All, I have posted an updated draft scope here: https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/html/draft-waltermire-panic-scope-02. I think we have addressed most of the issues brought up on list. I do not feel I adequately addressed making NAT out of scope (per Daniel's request) and would like some help on that. Bob, to your questions on the relationship between our work and netconf, I think that we could best focus our time on extending YANG to meet the requirements we derive from this scoping statement. So, I stated that explicitly in this draft. I'd like to get feedback from the group on that approach, so please chime in if you like/dislike/love/loathe that idea. Thanks, Jess On Fri, Jun 16, 2017 at 3:11 PM, Waltermire, David A. (Fed) < david.waltermire@nist.gov> wrote: > Hi Bob, > > > > Thanks for asking. We have been working on an update. We hope to post it > soon addressing the feedback we have received so far, including addressin= g > the comments from your other email today. > > > > Thanks, > > Dave > > > > *From:* Robert Moskowitz [mailto:rgm-sec@htt-consult.com] > *Sent:* Thursday, June 15, 2017 4:38 PM > *To:* Waltermire, David A. (Fed) ; Diego R. > Lopez > > *Cc:* Panic@ietf.org; Panos Kampanakis (pkampana) > *Subject:* Re: [Panic] Scope Draft is Available > > > > David, > > Do you have an update to your draft? > > I don't see anything past the Apr 11 01.txt draft. > > thanks > > On 05/19/2017 10:09 AM, Waltermire, David A. (Fed) wrote: > > Diego, thanks for the edits. > > > > All, > > > I am going to drop this text into an update of the scope draft. I=E2=80= =99ll wait > until Monday to work on posting the draft update. Please let me know if a= ny > other changes to the draft are desired. > > > > Thanks, > > Dave > > > > *From:* Panic [mailto:panic-bounces@ietf.org ] *O= n > Behalf Of *Diego R. Lopez > *Sent:* Friday, May 19, 2017 2:23 AM > *To:* Waltermire, David A. (Fed) > > *Cc:* Panic@ietf.org; Panos Kampanakis (pkampana) > > *Subject:* Re: [Panic] Scope Draft is Available > > > > Hi, > > > > I agree with David=E2=80=99s proposal, with just a few minor changes with= respect > to the original text, to make it more general, completely covering the > virtual cases (NFV) and eliminating the term =E2=80=9Cdevice=E2=80=9D to = avoid too many > equivalences... > > > > Network operators need to know what is connected to their organization's > networks so that they can properly manage those network elements. Managin= g > these network endpoints, consisting of physical and virtual network > infrastructure, requires access to information pertaining to them, > including endpoint identity, the identity of software installed on the > element, and the configuration setting values for the installed software. > This information can be collected from different classes of elements over > different protocols and using different data models. PANIC will identify = a > standardized solution to collect posture information for network element, > and allow that information to be shared with authorized users and element= s > on the network supporting security automation. PANIC aims to reuse > available standards for posture assessment where possible. The PANIC effo= rt > will avoid redefining information exchange technologies for use cases tha= t > have already been defined. > > > > Be goode, > > > > On 18 May 2017, at 20:01 , Waltermire, David A. (Fed) < > david.waltermire@nist.gov> wrote: > > > > Panos, thanks for providing text. > > We have participants that are approaching this problem space that are > accustomed to using endpoint and network element. How about the following > introduction text to draw an equivalence between these terms? > > Network operators need to know what is connected to their organization's > networks so that they can properly manage those network elements. Managin= g > these network elements, consisting of physical and virtual network > infrastructure devices, requires access to information pertaining to thes= e > endpoint devices, including device identity, the identity of software > installed on the endpoint, and the configuration setting values for the > installed software. This information can be collected from different > classes of endpoints over different protocols and using different data > models. PANIC will identify a standardized solution to collect posture > information for network devices, and allow that information to be shared > with authorized users and devices on the network supporting security > automation. PANIC aims to reuse available standards for posture assessmen= t > where possible. The PANIC effort will avoid redefining information exchan= ge > technologies for use cases that have already been defi > ned. > > Also, I added your text to the security considerations section. I will > post this in the -02 revision once we sort out the Introduction. > > Thanks, > Dave > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: Panos Kampanakis (pkampana) [mailto:pkampana@cisco.com > ] > Sent: Thursday, May 18, 2017 12:30 PM > To: Waltermire, David A. (Fed) ; Panic@ietf.or= g > Subject: RE: Scope Draft is Available > > ACK. Below some proposed text: > > For the Security Considerations Section: > Further discussion here will address the threat introduced to the netwo= rk > elements by the posture information collection. There should be protectio= ns > implemented to prevent the element from being vulnerable to DoS attacks > by frequent polling or pushing of posture data. > > For the Introduction Section: > ...automation. PANIC aims to reuse available standards for posture > assessment where possible. It will avoid redefining info exchange > technologies for usecases that have already been defined. > > For the Introduction Section: > ...manage those > endpoints. Endpoints / Elements include hardware, software of virtual > network infrastructure devices. > > > > > > hardware, software or virtual (NFV fails in this > > > category) > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: Waltermire, David A. (Fed) [mailto:david.waltermire@nist.gov > ] > Sent: Thursday, May 18, 2017 10:59 AM > To: Panos Kampanakis (pkampana) ; Panic@ietf.org > Subject: RE: Scope Draft is Available > > Panos, > > Thank you for providing feedback on the PANIC scope draft. > > Comments are inline below. > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: Panos Kampanakis (pkampana) [mailto:pkampana@cisco.com > ] > Sent: Thursday, May 18, 2017 10:37 AM > To: Waltermire, David A. (Fed) ; > Panic@ietf.org > Subject: RE: Scope Draft is Available > > Hi David, > > The document is clear. > > One semantic objection I have is about the use of the word endpoint. I > believe the term is commonly used for user machines (laptops, cells, > tablets) . Network element or element is a little clearer. > > > I don't have a dog in this fight. I am happy to go either way (e.g., > endpoint, > network element) if there is a preference in the group for one term or th= e > other. I'd like to hear other opinions on this. > > > > A susggestion: The security section could mention the importance of > not introducing security concerns with the posture info collection. > For example a device should not be DoSable by too many polls, or it > should not push often enough that would introduce performance concerns > > etc. > > I think this is a good idea. Do you have some text in mind to drop in? > > > > I think it will also be beneficial to be explicit about the types of > network elements. In the broad technologies that exist today, these > elements could be hardware, software or virtual (NFV fails in this > category). All of those should be in scope for this work. > > > All of these are in scope in my view. > > > > Side comment: I would like this standardization effort to try to reuse > data formats and transports wherever possible and not come up with new > posture information descriptions. I think this is a common goal that > SACM has as well. > > > I share this goal as well. Should we document this in the draft? > > > > Thanks, > Panos > > > Regards, > Dave > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: Panic [mailto:panic-bounces@ietf.org ] On > Behalf Of Waltermire, > David A. (Fed) > Sent: Monday, May 15, 2017 11:03 AM > To: Panic@ietf.org > Subject: [Panic] Scope Draft is Available > > Welcome to the posture assessment through network information > collection > (PANIC) email list. At the side meeting on March 29th, we started > discussing the problem of how to measure the health of network > devices. We discussed the need to collect posture information from > network devices to support asset, software, vulnerability, and > configuration management use cases. We were asked by the group to > share a more detailed description of the intended scope for the PANIC > effort. The follow draft is an attempt to do > so: > > https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-waltermire-panic-scope/ > > We would appreciate review of and comments on this draft. At this > point, we want to know if the this scope clearly defines the problem to b= e > > solved. > > > Please let us know if you have any questions or concerns, or if you > think the scope draft is adequate. > > Regards, > David Waltermire > > _______________________________________________ > Panic mailing list > Panic@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/panic > > > _______________________________________________ > Panic mailing list > Panic@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/panic > > > > -- > "Esta vez no fallaremos, Doctor Infierno" > > Dr Diego R. Lopez > Telefonica I+D > http://people.tid.es/diego.lopez/ > > e-mail: diego.r.lopez@telefonica.com > Tel: +34 913 129 041 > Mobile: +34 682 051 091 > ---------------------------------- > > > > > ------------------------------ > > > Este mensaje y sus adjuntos se dirigen exclusivamente a su destinatario, > puede contener informaci=C3=B3n privilegiada o confidencial y es para uso > exclusivo de la persona o entidad de destino. Si no es usted. el > destinatario indicado, queda notificado de que la lectura, utilizaci=C3= =B3n, > divulgaci=C3=B3n y/o copia sin autorizaci=C3=B3n puede estar prohibida en= virtud de > la legislaci=C3=B3n vigente. Si ha recibido este mensaje por error, le ro= gamos > que nos lo comunique inmediatamente por esta misma v=C3=ADa y proceda a s= u > destrucci=C3=B3n. > > The information contained in this transmission is privileged and > confidential information intended only for the use of the individual or > entity named above. If the reader of this message is not the intended > recipient, you are hereby notified that any dissemination, distribution o= r > copying of this communication is strictly prohibited. If you have receive= d > this transmission in error, do not read it. Please immediately reply to t= he > sender that you have received this communication in error and then delete > it. > > Esta mensagem e seus anexos se dirigem exclusivamente ao seu destinat=C3= =A1rio, > pode conter informa=C3=A7=C3=A3o privilegiada ou confidencial e =C3=A9 pa= ra uso exclusivo > da pessoa ou entidade de destino. Se n=C3=A3o =C3=A9 vossa senhoria o des= tinat=C3=A1rio > indicado, fica notificado de que a leitura, utiliza=C3=A7=C3=A3o, divulga= =C3=A7=C3=A3o e/ou > c=C3=B3pia sem autoriza=C3=A7=C3=A3o pode estar proibida em virtude da le= gisla=C3=A7=C3=A3o vigente. > Se recebeu esta mensagem por erro, rogamos-lhe que nos o comunique > imediatamente por esta mesma via e proceda a sua destrui=C3=A7=C3=A3o > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > Panic mailing list > > Panic@ietf.org > > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/panic > > > > _______________________________________________ > Panic mailing list > Panic@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/panic > > --94eb2c0b8d5e5d0bdd0552de07ba Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Al= l,
I have = posted an updated draft scope here: =C2=A0https://datatr= acker.ietf.org/doc/html/draft-waltermire-panic-scope-02.

=
I think we h= ave addressed most of the issues brought up on list. I do not feel I adequa= tely addressed making NAT out of scope (per Daniel's request) and would= like some help on that.

Bob, to your questions on the relationship betwee= n our work and netconf, I think that we could best focus our time on extend= ing YANG to meet the requirements we derive from this scoping statement. So= , I stated that explicitly in this draft. I'd like to get feedback from= the group on that approach, so please chime in if you like/dislike/love/lo= athe that idea.

Thanks,
Jess
=
On Fri, Jun 16, 2017 at 3:11 PM, Waltermire,= David A. (Fed) <david.waltermire@nist.gov> wrote:

Hi Bob,

=C2=A0

Thanks for asking. We have been wo= rking on an update. We hope to post it soon addressing the feedback we have= received so far, including addressing the comments from your other email today.

=C2=A0

Thanks,

Dave

=C2=A0

From: Robert Moskowitz [mailto:rgm-sec@htt-consult.com]
Sent: Thursday, June 15, 2017 4:38 PM
To: Waltermire, David A. (Fed) <david.waltermire@nist.gov>; Diego R. L= opez <= diego.r.lopez@telefonica.com>


Cc: Panic@ietf.o= rg; Panos Kampanakis (pkampana) <pkampana@cisco.com>
Subject: Re: [Panic] Scope Draft is Available

=C2=A0

David,

Do you have an update to your draft?

I don't see anything past the Apr 11 01.txt draft.

thanks

On 05/19/2017 10:09 AM, Waltermire, David A. (Fed) w= rote:

Diego, thanks for the edits.

=C2=A0

All,


I am going to drop this text into an update of the = scope draft. I=E2=80=99ll wait until Monday to work on posting the draft up= date. Please let me know if any other changes to the draft are desired.

=C2=A0

Thanks,

Dave

=C2=A0

From: Panic [mailto:panic-bounces@ietf.org= ] On Behalf Of Diego R. Lopez
Sent: Friday, May 19, 2017 2:23 AM
To: Waltermire, David A. (Fed) <david.waltermire@nist.gov>
Cc: Panic@ietf.o= rg; Panos Kampanakis (pkampana) <pkampana@cisco.= com>
Subject: Re: [Panic] Scope Draft is Available

=C2=A0

Hi,

=C2=A0

I agree with David=E2=80=99s proposal, with just a f= ew minor changes with respect to the original text, to make it more general= , completely covering the virtual cases (NFV) and eliminating the term =E2= =80=9Cdevice=E2=80=9D to avoid too many equivalences...

=C2=A0

Network operators need to know what is connected to = their organization's networks so that they can properly manage those ne= twork elements. Managing these network endpoints, consisting of physical an= d virtual network infrastructure, requires access to information pertaining to them, including endpoint identity, the= identity of software installed on the element, and the configuration setti= ng values for the installed software. This information can be collected fro= m different classes of elements over different protocols and using different data models. PANIC will ident= ify a standardized solution to collect posture information for network elem= ent, and allow that information to be shared with authorized users and elem= ents on the network supporting security automation. PANIC aims to reuse available standards for posture assessment= where possible. The PANIC effort will avoid redefining information exchang= e technologies for use cases that have already been defined.<= /p>

=C2=A0

Be goode,

=C2=A0

On 18 May 2017, at 20:01 , Waltermire, David A. (Fed= ) <david.= waltermire@nist.gov> wrote:

=C2=A0

Panos, thanks for providing text.

We have participants that are approaching this problem space that are accus= tomed to using endpoint and network element. How about the following introd= uction text to draw an equivalence between these terms?

Network operators need to know what is connected to their organization'= s networks so that they can properly manage those network elements. Managin= g these network elements, consisting of physical and virtual network infras= tructure devices, requires access to information pertaining to these endpoint devices, including device identit= y, the identity of software installed on the endpoint, and the configuratio= n setting values for the installed software. This information can be collec= ted from different classes of endpoints over different protocols and using different data models. PANIC will ident= ify a standardized solution to collect posture information for network devi= ces, and allow that information to be shared with authorized users and devi= ces on the network supporting security automation. PANIC aims to reuse available standards for posture assessment= where possible. The PANIC effort will avoid redefining information exchang= e technologies for use cases that have already been defi
ned.

Also, I added your text to the security considerations section. I will post= this in the -02 revision once we sort out the Introduction.

Thanks,
Dave



-----Original Message-----
From: Panos Kampanakis (pkampana) [mailto:pkampana@cisco.com]
Sent: Thursday, May 18, 2017 12:30 PM
To: Waltermire, David A. (Fed) <david.waltermire@nist.gov>; Panic@ietf.org
Subject: RE: Scope Draft is Available

ACK. Below some proposed text:

For the Security Considerations Section:
=C2=A0=C2=A0Further discussion here will address the threat introduced to t= he network
elements by the posture information collection. There should be protections=
implemented to prevent the element from being vulnerable to DoS attacks
by frequent polling or pushing of posture data.

For the Introduction Section:
=C2=A0=C2=A0...automation. PANIC aims to reuse available standards for post= ure
assessment where possible. It will avoid redefining info exchange
technologies for usecases that have already been defined.

For the Introduction Section:
=C2=A0=C2=A0...manage those
=C2=A0=C2=A0endpoints. Endpoints / Elements include hardware, software of v= irtual
network infrastructure devices.





hardware, software or virtual (NFV fails in this


category)



-----Original Message-----
From: Waltermire, David A. (Fed) [mailto:david.waltermire@nist.gov]
Sent: Thursday, May 18, 2017 10:59 AM
To: Panos Kampanakis (pkampana) <pkampana@cisco.com>; Panic@ietf.org
Subject: RE: Scope Draft is Available

Panos,

Thank you for providing feedback on the PANIC scope draft.

Comments are inline below.



-----Original Message-----
From: Panos Kampanakis (pkampana) [mailto:pkampana@cisco.com]
Sent: Thursday, May 18, 2017 10:37 AM
To: Waltermire, David A. (Fed) <david.waltermire@nist.gov>;
Panic@ietf.org
Subject: RE: Scope Draft is Available

Hi David,

The document is clear.

One semantic objection I have is about the use of the word endpoint. I
believe the term is commonly used for user machines (laptops, cells,
tablets) . Network element or element is a little clearer.


I don't have a dog in this fight. I am happy to go either way (e.g., en= dpoint,
network element) if there is a preference in the group for one term or the<= br> other. I'd like to hear other opinions on this.



A susggestion: The security section could mention th= e importance of
not introducing security concerns with the posture info collection.
For example a device should not be DoSable by too many polls, or it
should not push often enough that would introduce performance concerns

etc.

I think this is a good idea. Do you have some text in mind to drop in?



I think it will also be beneficial to be explicit ab= out the types of
network elements. In the broad technologies that exist today, these
elements could be hardware, software or virtual (NFV fails in this
category). All of those should be in scope for this work.


All of these are in scope in my view.



Side comment: I would like this standardization effo= rt to try to reuse
data formats and transports wherever possible and not come up with new
posture information descriptions. I think this is a common goal that
SACM has as well.


I share this goal as well. Should we document this in the draft?



Thanks,
Panos


Regards,
Dave



-----Original Message-----
From: Panic [ma= ilto:panic-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of Waltermire,
David A. (Fed)
Sent: Monday, May 15, 2017 11:03 AM
To: Panic@ietf.org<= br> Subject: [Panic] Scope Draft is Available

Welcome to the posture assessment through network information
collection
(PANIC) email list. At the side meeting on March 29th, we started
discussing the problem of how to measure the health of network
devices. We discussed the need to collect posture information from
network devices to support asset, software, vulnerability, and
configuration management use cases. We were asked by the group to
share a more detailed description of the intended scope for the PANIC
effort. The follow draft is an attempt to do
so:

https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-waltermire-pa= nic-scope/

We would appreciate review of and comments on this draft. At this
point, we want to know if the this scope clearly defines the problem to be<= u>

solved.


Please let us know if you have any questions or conc= erns, or if you
think the scope draft is adequate.

Regards,
David Waltermire

_______________________________________________
Panic mailing list
Panic@ietf.org
h= ttps://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/panic


_______________________________________________
Panic mailing list
Panic@ietf.org
h= ttps://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/panic

=C2=A0

--
"Esta vez no fallaremos, Doctor Infierno"

Dr Diego R. Lopez
Telefonica I+D
http://peop= le.tid.es/diego.lopez/

e-mail: d= iego.r.lopez@telefonica.com
Tel: =C2=A0 =C2=A0+34 913 129 041
Mobile: +34 682 051 091
----------------------------------

=C2=A0

=C2=A0


Este mensaje y sus adjuntos se dirigen exclusivamente a su destinatario, pu= ede contener informaci=C3=B3n privilegiada o confidencial y es para uso exc= lusivo de la persona o entidad de destino. Si no es usted. el destinatario = indicado, queda notificado de que la lectura, utilizaci=C3=B3n, divulgaci=C3=B3n y/o copia sin autorizaci=C3=B3= n puede estar prohibida en virtud de la legislaci=C3=B3n vigente. Si ha rec= ibido este mensaje por error, le rogamos que nos lo comunique inmediatament= e por esta misma v=C3=ADa y proceda a su destrucci=C3=B3n.

The information contained in this transmission is privileged and confidenti= al information intended only for the use of the individual or entity named = above. If the reader of this message is not the intended recipient, you are= hereby notified that any dissemination, distribution or copying of this communication is strictly prohibited. If y= ou have received this transmission in error, do not read it. Please immedia= tely reply to the sender that you have received this communication in error= and then delete it.

Esta mensagem e seus anexos se dirigem exclusivamente ao seu destinat=C3=A1= rio, pode conter informa=C3=A7=C3=A3o privilegiada ou confidencial e =C3=A9= para uso exclusivo da pessoa ou entidade de destino. Se n=C3=A3o =C3=A9 vo= ssa senhoria o destinat=C3=A1rio indicado, fica notificado de que a leitura, utiliza=C3=A7=C3=A3o, divulga=C3=A7=C3=A3o e/ou c=C3=B3pia sem au= toriza=C3=A7=C3=A3o pode estar proibida em virtude da legisla=C3=A7=C3=A3o = vigente. Se recebeu esta mensagem por erro, rogamos-lhe que nos o comunique= imediatamente por esta mesma via e proceda a sua destrui=C3=A7=C3=A3o




_______________________________________________

Panic mailing list


Panic@ietf.org=



https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/panic

=C2=A0


_______________________________________________
Panic mailing list
Panic@ietf.org
https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/panic


--94eb2c0b8d5e5d0bdd0552de07ba-- From nobody Mon Jun 26 11:57:42 2017 Return-Path: X-Original-To: panic@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: panic@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id AACAD12EB45 for ; Mon, 26 Jun 2017 11:57:40 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.742 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.742 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_BRBL_LASTEXT=1.449, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-2.3, RP_MATCHES_RCVD=-0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, T_KAM_HTML_FONT_INVALID=0.01] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id X1L8kvV9GiQE for ; Mon, 26 Jun 2017 11:57:36 -0700 (PDT) Received: from z9m9z.htt-consult.com (z9m9z.htt-consult.com [50.253.254.3]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id DB4B012EB39 for ; Mon, 26 Jun 2017 11:57:35 -0700 (PDT) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by z9m9z.htt-consult.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8C46A62251; Mon, 26 Jun 2017 14:57:32 -0400 (EDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at htt-consult.com Received: from z9m9z.htt-consult.com ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (z9m9z.htt-consult.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with LMTP id 0zhx3qvcegae; Mon, 26 Jun 2017 14:57:15 -0400 (EDT) Received: from lx120e.htt-consult.com (unknown [192.168.160.12]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher DHE-RSA-AES128-SHA (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by z9m9z.htt-consult.com (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 7D25162250; Mon, 26 Jun 2017 14:57:14 -0400 (EDT) To: Jessica Fitzgerald-McKay , "Waltermire, David A. (Fed)" References: <2c391fc46bca4900875ee3b0514df42b@XCH-ALN-010.cisco.com> <7ddec0441a2d492f979c27325dfe1fdb@XCH-ALN-010.cisco.com> <3c2c18cd-90a5-ed7f-d803-f2906f3d116b@htt-consult.com> Cc: "Panic@ietf.org" , "Panos Kampanakis (pkampana)" , "Diego R. Lopez" From: Robert Moskowitz Message-ID: <82f03907-617c-3317-7386-ff35008f50c6@htt-consult.com> Date: Mon, 26 Jun 2017 14:57:12 -0400 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; Linux x86_64; rv:45.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/45.8.0 MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="------------74E4240DC38512EDF784BF6D" Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Panic] Scope Draft is Available X-BeenThere: panic@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 Precedence: list List-Id: "Posture Assessment Through Network Information Collection \(panic\)" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 26 Jun 2017 18:57:41 -0000 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --------------74E4240DC38512EDF784BF6D Content-Type: text/plain; charset=windows-1252; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Jessica, Thanksfor updating the draft. I will give it a read. Along with dozen others I have to get done! :) Deadlines. You have to love 'em. Bob On 06/26/2017 10:47 AM, Jessica Fitzgerald-McKay wrote: > All, > I have posted an updated draft scope here: > https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/html/draft-waltermire-panic-scope-02. > > I think we have addressed most of the issues brought up on list. I do > not feel I adequately addressed making NAT out of scope (per Daniel's > request) and would like some help on that. > > Bob, to your questions on the relationship between our work and > netconf, I think that we could best focus our time on extending YANG > to meet the requirements we derive from this scoping statement. So, I > stated that explicitly in this draft. I'd like to get feedback from > the group on that approach, so please chime in if you > like/dislike/love/loathe that idea. > > Thanks, > Jess > > On Fri, Jun 16, 2017 at 3:11 PM, Waltermire, David A. (Fed) > > wrote: > > Hi Bob, > > Thanks for asking. We have been working on an update. We hope to > post it soon addressing the feedback we have received so far, > including addressing the comments from your other email today. > > Thanks, > > Dave > > *From:*Robert Moskowitz [mailto:rgm-sec@htt-consult.com > ] > *Sent:* Thursday, June 15, 2017 4:38 PM > *To:* Waltermire, David A. (Fed) >; Diego R. Lopez > > > > > *Cc:* Panic@ietf.org ; Panos Kampanakis > (pkampana) > > *Subject:* Re: [Panic] Scope Draft is Available > > David, > > Do you have an update to your draft? > > I don't see anything past the Apr 11 01.txt draft. > > thanks > > On 05/19/2017 10:09 AM, Waltermire, David A. (Fed) wrote: > > Diego, thanks for the edits. > > All, > > > I am going to drop this text into an update of the scope > draft. I’ll wait until Monday to work on posting the draft > update. Please let me know if any other changes to the draft > are desired. > > Thanks, > > Dave > > *From:*Panic [mailto:panic-bounces@ietf.org] *On Behalf Of > *Diego R. Lopez > *Sent:* Friday, May 19, 2017 2:23 AM > *To:* Waltermire, David A. (Fed) > > *Cc:* Panic@ietf.org ; Panos Kampanakis > (pkampana) > *Subject:* Re: [Panic] Scope Draft is Available > > Hi, > > I agree with David’s proposal, with just a few minor changes > with respect to the original text, to make it more general, > completely covering the virtual cases (NFV) and eliminating > the term “device” to avoid too many equivalences... > > Network operators need to know what is connected to their > organization's networks so that they can properly manage those > network elements. Managing these network endpoints, consisting > of physical and virtual network infrastructure, requires > access to information pertaining to them, including endpoint > identity, the identity of software installed on the element, > and the configuration setting values for the installed > software. This information can be collected from different > classes of elements over different protocols and using > different data models. PANIC will identify a standardized > solution to collect posture information for network element, > and allow that information to be shared with authorized users > and elements on the network supporting security automation. > PANIC aims to reuse available standards for posture assessment > where possible. The PANIC effort will avoid redefining > information exchange technologies for use cases that have > already been defined. > > Be goode, > > On 18 May 2017, at 20:01 , Waltermire, David A. (Fed) > > wrote: > > Panos, thanks for providing text. > > We have participants that are approaching this problem > space that are accustomed to using endpoint and network > element. How about the following introduction text to draw > an equivalence between these terms? > > Network operators need to know what is connected to their > organization's networks so that they can properly manage > those network elements. Managing these network elements, > consisting of physical and virtual network infrastructure > devices, requires access to information pertaining to > these endpoint devices, including device identity, the > identity of software installed on the endpoint, and the > configuration setting values for the installed software. > This information can be collected from different classes > of endpoints over different protocols and using different > data models. PANIC will identify a standardized solution > to collect posture information for network devices, and > allow that information to be shared with authorized users > and devices on the network supporting security automation. > PANIC aims to reuse available standards for posture > assessment where possible. The PANIC effort will avoid > redefining information exchange technologies for use cases > that have already been defi > ned. > > Also, I added your text to the security considerations > section. I will post this in the -02 revision once we sort > out the Introduction. > > Thanks, > Dave > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: Panos Kampanakis (pkampana) > [mailto:pkampana@cisco.com] > Sent: Thursday, May 18, 2017 12:30 PM > To: Waltermire, David A. (Fed) > >; Panic@ietf.org > > Subject: RE: Scope Draft is Available > > ACK. Below some proposed text: > > For the Security Considerations Section: > Further discussion here will address the threat > introduced to the network > elements by the posture information collection. There > should be protections > implemented to prevent the element from being > vulnerable to DoS attacks > by frequent polling or pushing of posture data. > > For the Introduction Section: > ...automation. PANIC aims to reuse available > standards for posture > assessment where possible. It will avoid redefining > info exchange > technologies for usecases that have already been defined. > > For the Introduction Section: > ...manage those > endpoints. Endpoints / Elements include hardware, > software of virtual > network infrastructure devices. > > > > > > hardware, software or virtual (NFV fails in this > > > category) > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: Waltermire, David A. (Fed) > [mailto:david.waltermire@nist.gov > ] > Sent: Thursday, May 18, 2017 10:59 AM > To: Panos Kampanakis (pkampana) >; Panic@ietf.org > > Subject: RE: Scope Draft is Available > > Panos, > > Thank you for providing feedback on the PANIC scope draft. > > Comments are inline below. > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: Panos Kampanakis (pkampana) > [mailto:pkampana@cisco.com] > Sent: Thursday, May 18, 2017 10:37 AM > To: Waltermire, David A. (Fed) > >; > Panic@ietf.org > Subject: RE: Scope Draft is Available > > Hi David, > > The document is clear. > > One semantic objection I have is about the use of > the word endpoint. I > believe the term is commonly used for user > machines (laptops, cells, > tablets) . Network element or element is a little > clearer. > > > I don't have a dog in this fight. I am happy to go > either way (e.g., endpoint, > network element) if there is a preference in the group > for one term or the > other. I'd like to hear other opinions on this. > > > > A susggestion: The security section could mention > the importance of > not introducing security concerns with the posture > info collection. > For example a device should not be DoSable by too > many polls, or it > should not push often enough that would introduce > performance concerns > > etc. > > I think this is a good idea. Do you have some text in > mind to drop in? > > > > I think it will also be beneficial to be explicit > about the types of > network elements. In the broad technologies that > exist today, these > elements could be hardware, software or virtual > (NFV fails in this > category). All of those should be in scope for > this work. > > > All of these are in scope in my view. > > > > Side comment: I would like this standardization > effort to try to reuse > data formats and transports wherever possible and > not come up with new > posture information descriptions. I think this is > a common goal that > SACM has as well. > > > I share this goal as well. Should we document this in > the draft? > > > > Thanks, > Panos > > > Regards, > Dave > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: Panic [mailto:panic-bounces@ietf.org] On > Behalf Of Waltermire, > David A. (Fed) > Sent: Monday, May 15, 2017 11:03 AM > To: Panic@ietf.org > Subject: [Panic] Scope Draft is Available > > Welcome to the posture assessment through network > information > collection > (PANIC) email list. At the side meeting on March > 29th, we started > discussing the problem of how to measure the > health of network > devices. We discussed the need to collect posture > information from > network devices to support asset, software, > vulnerability, and > configuration management use cases. We were asked > by the group to > share a more detailed description of the intended > scope for the PANIC > effort. The follow draft is an attempt to do > so: > > https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-waltermire-panic-scope/ > > > We would appreciate review of and comments on this > draft. At this > point, we want to know if the this scope clearly > defines the problem to be > > solved. > > > Please let us know if you have any questions or > concerns, or if you > think the scope draft is adequate. > > Regards, > David Waltermire > > _______________________________________________ > Panic mailing list > Panic@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/panic > > > > _______________________________________________ > Panic mailing list > Panic@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/panic > > > -- > "Esta vez no fallaremos, Doctor Infierno" > > Dr Diego R. Lopez > Telefonica I+D > http://people.tid.es/diego.lopez/ > > > e-mail: diego.r.lopez@telefonica.com > > Tel: +34 913 129 041 > Mobile: +34 682 051 091 > ---------------------------------- > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > > Este mensaje y sus adjuntos se dirigen exclusivamente a su > destinatario, puede contener información privilegiada o > confidencial y es para uso exclusivo de la persona o entidad > de destino. Si no es usted. el destinatario indicado, queda > notificado de que la lectura, utilización, divulgación y/o > copia sin autorización puede estar prohibida en virtud de la > legislación vigente. Si ha recibido este mensaje por error, le > rogamos que nos lo comunique inmediatamente por esta misma vía > y proceda a su destrucción. > > The information contained in this transmission is privileged > and confidential information intended only for the use of the > individual or entity named above. If the reader of this > message is not the intended recipient, you are hereby notified > that any dissemination, distribution or copying of this > communication is strictly prohibited. If you have received > this transmission in error, do not read it. Please immediately > reply to the sender that you have received this communication > in error and then delete it. > > Esta mensagem e seus anexos se dirigem exclusivamente ao seu > destinatário, pode conter informação privilegiada ou > confidencial e é para uso exclusivo da pessoa ou entidade de > destino. Se não é vossa senhoria o destinatário indicado, fica > notificado de que a leitura, utilização, divulgação e/ou cópia > sem autorização pode estar proibida em virtude da legislação > vigente. Se recebeu esta mensagem por erro, rogamos-lhe que > nos o comunique imediatamente por esta mesma via e proceda a > sua destruição > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > Panic mailing list > > Panic@ietf.org > > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/panic > > > _______________________________________________ Panic mailing list > Panic@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/panic > > > _______________________________________________ > Panic mailing list > Panic@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/panic --------------74E4240DC38512EDF784BF6D Content-Type: text/html; charset=windows-1252 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Jessica,

Thanksfor updating the draft.  I will give it a read.  Along with dozen others I have to get done!  :)

Deadlines.  You have to love 'em.

Bob


On 06/26/2017 10:47 AM, Jessica Fitzgerald-McKay wrote:
All,
I have posted an updated draft scope here:  https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/html/draft-waltermire-panic-scope-02.

I think we have addressed most of the issues brought up on list. I do not feel I adequately addressed making NAT out of scope (per Daniel's request) and would like some help on that.

Bob, to your questions on the relationship between our work and netconf, I think that we could best focus our time on extending YANG to meet the requirements we derive from this scoping statement. So, I stated that explicitly in this draft. I'd like to get feedback from the group on that approach, so please chime in if you like/dislike/love/loathe that idea.

Thanks,
Jess

On Fri, Jun 16, 2017 at 3:11 PM, Waltermire, David A. (Fed) <david.waltermire@nist.gov> wrote:

Hi Bob,

 

Thanks for asking. We have been working on an update. We hope to post it soon addressing the feedback we have received so far, including addressing the comments from your other email today.

 

Thanks,

Dave

 

From: Robert Moskowitz [mailto:rgm-sec@htt-consult.com]
Sent: Thursday, June 15, 2017 4:38 PM
To: Waltermire, David A. (Fed) <david.waltermire@nist.gov>; Diego R. Lopez <diego.r.lopez@telefonica.com>


Cc: Panic@ietf.org; Panos Kampanakis (pkampana) <pkampana@cisco.com>
Subject: Re: [Panic] Scope Draft is Available

 

David,

Do you have an update to your draft?

I don't see anything past the Apr 11 01.txt draft.

thanks

On 05/19/2017 10:09 AM, Waltermire, David A. (Fed) wrote:

Diego, thanks for the edits.

 

All,


I am going to drop this text into an update of the scope draft. I’ll wait until Monday to work on posting the draft update. Please let me know if any other changes to the draft are desired.

 

Thanks,

Dave

 

From: Panic [mailto:panic-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of Diego R. Lopez
Sent: Friday, May 19, 2017 2:23 AM
To: Waltermire, David A. (Fed) <david.waltermire@nist.gov>
Cc: Panic@ietf.org; Panos Kampanakis (pkampana) <pkampana@cisco.com>
Subject: Re: [Panic] Scope Draft is Available

 

Hi,

 

I agree with David’s proposal, with just a few minor changes with respect to the original text, to make it more general, completely covering the virtual cases (NFV) and eliminating the term “device” to avoid too many equivalences...

 

Network operators need to know what is connected to their organization's networks so that they can properly manage those network elements. Managing these network endpoints, consisting of physical and virtual network infrastructure, requires access to information pertaining to them, including endpoint identity, the identity of software installed on the element, and the configuration setting values for the installed software. This information can be collected from different classes of elements over different protocols and using different data models. PANIC will identify a standardized solution to collect posture information for network element, and allow that information to be shared with authorized users and elements on the network supporting security automation. PANIC aims to reuse available standards for posture assessment where possible. The PANIC effort will avoid redefining information exchange technologies for use cases that have already been defined.

 

Be goode,

 

On 18 May 2017, at 20:01 , Waltermire, David A. (Fed) <david.waltermire@nist.gov> wrote:

 

Panos, thanks for providing text.

We have participants that are approaching this problem space that are accustomed to using endpoint and network element. How about the following introduction text to draw an equivalence between these terms?

Network operators need to know what is connected to their organization's networks so that they can properly manage those network elements. Managing these network elements, consisting of physical and virtual network infrastructure devices, requires access to information pertaining to these endpoint devices, including device identity, the identity of software installed on the endpoint, and the configuration setting values for the installed software. This information can be collected from different classes of endpoints over different protocols and using different data models. PANIC will identify a standardized solution to collect posture information for network devices, and allow that information to be shared with authorized users and devices on the network supporting security automation. PANIC aims to reuse available standards for posture assessment where possible. The PANIC effort will avoid redefining information exchange technologies for use cases that have already been defi
ned.

Also, I added your text to the security considerations section. I will post this in the -02 revision once we sort out the Introduction.

Thanks,
Dave



-----Original Message-----
From: Panos Kampanakis (pkampana) [mailto:pkampana@cisco.com]
Sent: Thursday, May 18, 2017 12:30 PM
To: Waltermire, David A. (Fed) <david.waltermire@nist.gov>; Panic@ietf.org
Subject: RE: Scope Draft is Available

ACK. Below some proposed text:

For the Security Considerations Section:
  Further discussion here will address the threat introduced to the network
elements by the posture information collection. There should be protections
implemented to prevent the element from being vulnerable to DoS attacks
by frequent polling or pushing of posture data.

For the Introduction Section:
  ...automation. PANIC aims to reuse available standards for posture
assessment where possible. It will avoid redefining info exchange
technologies for usecases that have already been defined.

For the Introduction Section:
  ...manage those
  endpoints. Endpoints / Elements include hardware, software of virtual
network infrastructure devices.





hardware, software or virtual (NFV fails in this


category)



-----Original Message-----
From: Waltermire, David A. (Fed) [mailto:david.waltermire@nist.gov]
Sent: Thursday, May 18, 2017 10:59 AM
To: Panos Kampanakis (pkampana) <pkampana@cisco.com>; Panic@ietf.org
Subject: RE: Scope Draft is Available

Panos,

Thank you for providing feedback on the PANIC scope draft.

Comments are inline below.



-----Original Message-----
From: Panos Kampanakis (pkampana) [mailto:pkampana@cisco.com]
Sent: Thursday, May 18, 2017 10:37 AM
To: Waltermire, David A. (Fed) <david.waltermire@nist.gov>;
Panic@ietf.org
Subject: RE: Scope Draft is Available

Hi David,

The document is clear.

One semantic objection I have is about the use of the word endpoint. I
believe the term is commonly used for user machines (laptops, cells,
tablets) . Network element or element is a little clearer.


I don't have a dog in this fight. I am happy to go either way (e.g., endpoint,
network element) if there is a preference in the group for one term or the
other. I'd like to hear other opinions on this.



A susggestion: The security section could mention the importance of
not introducing security concerns with the posture info collection.
For example a device should not be DoSable by too many polls, or it
should not push often enough that would introduce performance concerns

etc.

I think this is a good idea. Do you have some text in mind to drop in?



I think it will also be beneficial to be explicit about the types of
network elements. In the broad technologies that exist today, these
elements could be hardware, software or virtual (NFV fails in this
category). All of those should be in scope for this work.


All of these are in scope in my view.



Side comment: I would like this standardization effort to try to reuse
data formats and transports wherever possible and not come up with new
posture information descriptions. I think this is a common goal that
SACM has as well.


I share this goal as well. Should we document this in the draft?



Thanks,
Panos


Regards,
Dave



-----Original Message-----
From: Panic [mailto:panic-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of Waltermire,
David A. (Fed)
Sent: Monday, May 15, 2017 11:03 AM
To: Panic@ietf.org
Subject: [Panic] Scope Draft is Available

Welcome to the posture assessment through network information
collection
(PANIC) email list. At the side meeting on March 29th, we started
discussing the problem of how to measure the health of network
devices. We discussed the need to collect posture information from
network devices to support asset, software, vulnerability, and
configuration management use cases. We were asked by the group to
share a more detailed description of the intended scope for the PANIC
effort. The follow draft is an attempt to do
so:

https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-waltermire-panic-scope/

We would appreciate review of and comments on this draft. At this
point, we want to know if the this scope clearly defines the problem to be

solved.


Please let us know if you have any questions or concerns, or if you
think the scope draft is adequate.

Regards,
David Waltermire

_______________________________________________
Panic mailing list
Panic@ietf.org
https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/panic


_______________________________________________
Panic mailing list
Panic@ietf.org
https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/panic

 

--
"Esta vez no fallaremos, Doctor Infierno"

Dr Diego R. Lopez
Telefonica I+D
http://people.tid.es/diego.lopez/

e-mail: diego.r.lopez@telefonica.com
Tel:    +34 913 129 041
Mobile: +34 682 051 091
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_______________________________________________ Panic mailing list Panic@ietf.org https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/panic 
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(Fed)" , "Panic@ietf.org" , "Panos Kampanakis (pkampana)" , "Diego R. Lopez" Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="001a1143b752b4fcdb0552e1ab58" Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Panic] Scope Draft is Available X-BeenThere: panic@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 Precedence: list List-Id: "Posture Assessment Through Network Information Collection \(panic\)" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 26 Jun 2017 19:08:09 -0000 --001a1143b752b4fcdb0552e1ab58 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Completely hear you, Bob. Thanks for finding the time for feedback, we (and all the other authors/editors whose work you are reviewing) appreciate it! On Mon, Jun 26, 2017 at 2:57 PM, Robert Moskowitz wrote: > Jessica, > > Thanksfor updating the draft. I will give it a read. Along with dozen > others I have to get done! :) > > Deadlines. You have to love 'em. > > Bob > > > > On 06/26/2017 10:47 AM, Jessica Fitzgerald-McKay wrote: > > All, > I have posted an updated draft scope here: https://datatracker.ietf.org/ > doc/html/draft-waltermire-panic-scope-02. > > I think we have addressed most of the issues brought up on list. I do not > feel I adequately addressed making NAT out of scope (per Daniel's request= ) > and would like some help on that. > > Bob, to your questions on the relationship between our work and netconf, = I > think that we could best focus our time on extending YANG to meet the > requirements we derive from this scoping statement. So, I stated that > explicitly in this draft. I'd like to get feedback from the group on that > approach, so please chime in if you like/dislike/love/loathe that idea. > > Thanks, > Jess > > On Fri, Jun 16, 2017 at 3:11 PM, Waltermire, David A. (Fed) < > david.waltermire@nist.gov> wrote: > >> Hi Bob, >> >> >> >> Thanks for asking. We have been working on an update. We hope to post it >> soon addressing the feedback we have received so far, including addressi= ng >> the comments from your other email today. >> >> >> >> Thanks, >> >> Dave >> >> >> >> *From:* Robert Moskowitz [mailto:rgm-sec@htt-consult.com] >> *Sent:* Thursday, June 15, 2017 4:38 PM >> *To:* Waltermire, David A. (Fed) ; Diego R. >> Lopez >> >> *Cc:* Panic@ietf.org; Panos Kampanakis (pkampana) >> *Subject:* Re: [Panic] Scope Draft is Available >> >> >> >> David, >> >> Do you have an update to your draft? >> >> I don't see anything past the Apr 11 01.txt draft. >> >> thanks >> >> On 05/19/2017 10:09 AM, Waltermire, David A. (Fed) wrote: >> >> Diego, thanks for the edits. >> >> >> >> All, >> >> >> I am going to drop this text into an update of the scope draft. I=E2=80= =99ll wait >> until Monday to work on posting the draft update. Please let me know if = any >> other changes to the draft are desired. >> >> >> >> Thanks, >> >> Dave >> >> >> >> *From:* Panic [mailto:panic-bounces@ietf.org ] *= On >> Behalf Of *Diego R. Lopez >> *Sent:* Friday, May 19, 2017 2:23 AM >> *To:* Waltermire, David A. (Fed) >> >> *Cc:* Panic@ietf.org; Panos Kampanakis (pkampana) >> >> *Subject:* Re: [Panic] Scope Draft is Available >> >> >> >> Hi, >> >> >> >> I agree with David=E2=80=99s proposal, with just a few minor changes wit= h respect >> to the original text, to make it more general, completely covering the >> virtual cases (NFV) and eliminating the term =E2=80=9Cdevice=E2=80=9D to= avoid too many >> equivalences... >> >> >> >> Network operators need to know what is connected to their organization's >> networks so that they can properly manage those network elements. Managi= ng >> these network endpoints, consisting of physical and virtual network >> infrastructure, requires access to information pertaining to them, >> including endpoint identity, the identity of software installed on the >> element, and the configuration setting values for the installed software= . >> This information can be collected from different classes of elements ove= r >> different protocols and using different data models. PANIC will identify= a >> standardized solution to collect posture information for network element= , >> and allow that information to be shared with authorized users and elemen= ts >> on the network supporting security automation. PANIC aims to reuse >> available standards for posture assessment where possible. The PANIC eff= ort >> will avoid redefining information exchange technologies for use cases th= at >> have already been defined. >> >> >> >> Be goode, >> >> >> >> On 18 May 2017, at 20:01 , Waltermire, David A. (Fed) < >> david.waltermire@nist.gov> wrote: >> >> >> >> Panos, thanks for providing text. >> >> We have participants that are approaching this problem space that are >> accustomed to using endpoint and network element. How about the followin= g >> introduction text to draw an equivalence between these terms? >> >> Network operators need to know what is connected to their organization's >> networks so that they can properly manage those network elements. Managi= ng >> these network elements, consisting of physical and virtual network >> infrastructure devices, requires access to information pertaining to the= se >> endpoint devices, including device identity, the identity of software >> installed on the endpoint, and the configuration setting values for the >> installed software. This information can be collected from different >> classes of endpoints over different protocols and using different data >> models. PANIC will identify a standardized solution to collect posture >> information for network devices, and allow that information to be shared >> with authorized users and devices on the network supporting security >> automation. PANIC aims to reuse available standards for posture assessme= nt >> where possible. The PANIC effort will avoid redefining information excha= nge >> technologies for use cases that have already been defi >> ned. >> >> Also, I added your text to the security considerations section. I will >> post this in the -02 revision once we sort out the Introduction. >> >> Thanks, >> Dave >> >> >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: Panos Kampanakis (pkampana) [mailto:pkampana@cisco.com >> ] >> Sent: Thursday, May 18, 2017 12:30 PM >> To: Waltermire, David A. (Fed) ; >> Panic@ietf.org >> Subject: RE: Scope Draft is Available >> >> ACK. Below some proposed text: >> >> For the Security Considerations Section: >> Further discussion here will address the threat introduced to the >> network >> elements by the posture information collection. There should be >> protections >> implemented to prevent the element from being vulnerable to DoS attacks >> by frequent polling or pushing of posture data. >> >> For the Introduction Section: >> ...automation. PANIC aims to reuse available standards for posture >> assessment where possible. It will avoid redefining info exchange >> technologies for usecases that have already been defined. >> >> For the Introduction Section: >> ...manage those >> endpoints. Endpoints / Elements include hardware, software of virtual >> network infrastructure devices. >> >> >> >> >> >> hardware, software or virtual (NFV fails in this >> >> >> category) >> >> >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: Waltermire, David A. (Fed) [mailto:david.waltermire@nist.gov >> ] >> Sent: Thursday, May 18, 2017 10:59 AM >> To: Panos Kampanakis (pkampana) ; Panic@ietf.org >> Subject: RE: Scope Draft is Available >> >> Panos, >> >> Thank you for providing feedback on the PANIC scope draft. >> >> Comments are inline below. >> >> >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: Panos Kampanakis (pkampana) [mailto:pkampana@cisco.com >> ] >> Sent: Thursday, May 18, 2017 10:37 AM >> To: Waltermire, David A. (Fed) ; >> Panic@ietf.org >> Subject: RE: Scope Draft is Available >> >> Hi David, >> >> The document is clear. >> >> One semantic objection I have is about the use of the word endpoint. I >> believe the term is commonly used for user machines (laptops, cells, >> tablets) . Network element or element is a little clearer. >> >> >> I don't have a dog in this fight. I am happy to go either way (e.g., >> endpoint, >> network element) if there is a preference in the group for one term or t= he >> other. I'd like to hear other opinions on this. >> >> >> >> A susggestion: The security section could mention the importance of >> not introducing security concerns with the posture info collection. >> For example a device should not be DoSable by too many polls, or it >> should not push often enough that would introduce performance concerns >> >> etc. >> >> I think this is a good idea. Do you have some text in mind to drop in? >> >> >> >> I think it will also be beneficial to be explicit about the types of >> network elements. In the broad technologies that exist today, these >> elements could be hardware, software or virtual (NFV fails in this >> category). All of those should be in scope for this work. >> >> >> All of these are in scope in my view. >> >> >> >> Side comment: I would like this standardization effort to try to reuse >> data formats and transports wherever possible and not come up with new >> posture information descriptions. I think this is a common goal that >> SACM has as well. >> >> >> I share this goal as well. Should we document this in the draft? >> >> >> >> Thanks, >> Panos >> >> >> Regards, >> Dave >> >> >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: Panic [mailto:panic-bounces@ietf.org ] On >> Behalf Of Waltermire, >> David A. (Fed) >> Sent: Monday, May 15, 2017 11:03 AM >> To: Panic@ietf.org >> Subject: [Panic] Scope Draft is Available >> >> Welcome to the posture assessment through network information >> collection >> (PANIC) email list. At the side meeting on March 29th, we started >> discussing the problem of how to measure the health of network >> devices. We discussed the need to collect posture information from >> network devices to support asset, software, vulnerability, and >> configuration management use cases. We were asked by the group to >> share a more detailed description of the intended scope for the PANIC >> effort. The follow draft is an attempt to do >> so: >> >> https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-waltermire-panic-scope/ >> >> We would appreciate review of and comments on this draft. At this >> point, we want to know if the this scope clearly defines the problem to = be >> >> solved. >> >> >> Please let us know if you have any questions or concerns, or if you >> think the scope draft is adequate. >> >> Regards, >> David Waltermire >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Panic mailing list >> Panic@ietf.org >> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/panic >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Panic mailing list >> Panic@ietf.org >> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/panic >> >> >> >> -- >> "Esta vez no fallaremos, Doctor Infierno" >> >> Dr Diego R. Lopez >> Telefonica I+D >> http://people.tid.es/diego.lopez/ >> >> e-mail: diego.r.lopez@telefonica.com >> Tel: +34 913 129 041 >> Mobile: +34 682 051 091 >> ---------------------------------- >> >> >> >> >> ------------------------------ >> >> >> Este mensaje y sus adjuntos se dirigen exclusivamente a su destinatario, >> puede contener informaci=C3=B3n privilegiada o confidencial y es para us= o >> exclusivo de la persona o entidad de destino. Si no es usted. el >> destinatario indicado, queda notificado de que la lectura, utilizaci=C3= =B3n, >> divulgaci=C3=B3n y/o copia sin autorizaci=C3=B3n puede estar prohibida e= n virtud de >> la legislaci=C3=B3n vigente. Si ha recibido este mensaje por error, le r= ogamos >> que nos lo comunique inmediatamente por esta misma v=C3=ADa y proceda a = su >> destrucci=C3=B3n. >> >> The information contained in this transmission is privileged and >> confidential information intended only for the use of the individual or >> entity named above. If the reader of this message is not the intended >> recipient, you are hereby notified that any dissemination, distribution = or >> copying of this communication is strictly prohibited. If you have receiv= ed >> this transmission in error, do not read it. Please immediately reply to = the >> sender that you have received this communication in error and then delet= e >> it. >> >> Esta mensagem e seus anexos se dirigem exclusivamente ao seu >> destinat=C3=A1rio, pode conter informa=C3=A7=C3=A3o privilegiada ou conf= idencial e =C3=A9 para >> uso exclusivo da pessoa ou entidade de destino. Se n=C3=A3o =C3=A9 vossa= senhoria o >> destinat=C3=A1rio indicado, fica notificado de que a leitura, utiliza=C3= =A7=C3=A3o, >> divulga=C3=A7=C3=A3o e/ou c=C3=B3pia sem autoriza=C3=A7=C3=A3o pode esta= r proibida em virtude da >> legisla=C3=A7=C3=A3o vigente. Se recebeu esta mensagem por erro, rogamos= -lhe que nos >> o comunique imediatamente por esta mesma via e proceda a sua destrui=C3= =A7=C3=A3o >> >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> >> Panic mailing list >> >> Panic@ietf.org >> >> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/panic >> >> >> _______________________________________________ Panic mailing list >> Panic@ietf.org https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/panic > > _______________________________________________ > Panic mailing listPanic@ietf.orghttps://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/pan= ic > > --001a1143b752b4fcdb0552e1ab58 Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Co= mpletely hear you, Bob. Thanks for finding the time for feedback, we (and a= ll the other authors/editors whose work you are reviewing) appreciate it!

On = Mon, Jun 26, 2017 at 2:57 PM, Robert Moskowitz <rgm-sec@htt-consult.= com> wrote:
=20 =20 =20
Jessica,

Thanksfor updating the draft.=C2=A0 I will give it a read.=C2=A0 Along = with dozen others I have to get done!=C2=A0 :)

Deadlines.=C2=A0 You have to love 'em.

Bob



On 06/26/2017 10:4= 7 AM, Jessica Fitzgerald-McKay wrote:
All,
I have posted an updated draft scope here: =C2=A0https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/html/draft-waltermire-<= wbr>panic-scope-02.

I think we have addressed most of the issues brought up on list. I do not feel I adequately addressed making NAT out of scope (per Daniel's request) and would like some help on that.

Bob, to your questions on the relationship between our work and netconf, I think that we could best focus our time on extending YANG to meet the requirements we derive from this scoping statement. So, I stated that explicitly in this draft. I'd like to get feedback from the group on that approach, so please chime in if you like/dislike/love/loathe that idea.

Thanks,
Jess

On Fri, Jun 16, 2017 at 3:11 PM, Waltermire, David A. (Fed) <david.waltermire@nist.gov> wrote:

Hi Bob,

=C2=A0

Thanks for asking. We have been working on an update. We hope to post it soon addressing the feedback we have received so far, including addressing the comments from your other email today.

=C2=A0

Thanks,

Dave

=C2=A0

From: Robert Moskowitz [mailto:rgm-sec@htt-consult.com]
Sent: Thursday, June 15, 2017 4:38 PM
To: Waltermire, David A. (Fed) <david.waltermire@ni= st.gov>; Diego R. Lopez <diego.r.lopez@telefonica.com>


Cc: Panic@ietf.org; Panos Kampanakis (pkampana) <pkampana@cisco.com>
Subject: Re: [Panic] Scope Draft is Available

=C2=A0

David,

Do you have an update to your draft?

I don't see anything past the Apr 11 01.txt draft.

thanks

On 05/19/2017 10:09 AM, Waltermire, David A. (Fed) wrote:

Diego, thanks for the edits.

=C2=A0

All,


I am going to drop this text into an update of the scope draft. I=E2=80=99ll wait until Monday= to work on posting the draft update. Please let me know if any other changes to the draft are desired.

=C2=A0

Thanks,

Dave

=C2=A0

From: Panic [mailto:panic-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of Diego R. Lopez
Sent: Friday, May 19, 2017 2:23 AM
To: Waltermire, David A. (Fed) <david.waltermire@nist.gov> Cc: Panic@ietf.org; Panos Kampanakis (pkampana) <pkampana@cisco.com>
Subject: Re: [Panic] Scope Draft is Available

=C2=A0

Hi,

=C2=A0

I agree with David=E2=80= =99s proposal, with just a few minor changes with respect to the original text, to make it more general, completely covering the virtual cases (NFV) and eliminating the term =E2=80=9Cdevice=E2=80=9D to avoid too ma= ny equivalences...

=C2=A0

Network operators need to know what is connected to their organization's networks so that they ca= n properly manage those network elements. Managing these network endpoints, consisting of physical and virtual network infrastructure, requires access to information pertaining to them, including endpoint identity, the identity of software installed on the element, and the configuration setting values for the installed software. This information can be collected from different classes of elements over different protocols and using different data models. PANIC will identify a standardized solution to collect posture information for network element, and allow that information to be shared with authorized users and elements on the network supporting security automation. PANIC aims to reuse available standards for posture assessment where possible. The PANIC effort will avoid redefining information exchange technologies for use cases that have already been defined.

=C2=A0

Be goode,

=C2=A0

On 18 May 2017, at 20:01 , Waltermire, David A. (Fed) <david.waltermire@nist.gov> wrote:

=C2=A0

Panos, thanks for providing text.

We have participants that are approaching this problem space that are accustomed to using endpoint and network element. How about the following introduction text to draw an equivalence between these terms?

Network operators need to know what is connected to their organization'= s networks so that they can properly manage those network elements. Managing these network elements, consisting of physical and virtual network infrastructure devices, requires access to information pertaining to these endpoint devices, including device identity, the identity of software installed on the endpoint, and the configuration setting values for the installed software. This information can be collected from different classes of endpoints over different protocols and using different data models. PANIC will identify a standardized solution to collect posture information for network devices, and allow that information to be shared with authorized users and devices on the network supporting security automation. PANIC aims to reuse available standards for posture assessment where possible. The PANIC effort will avoid redefining information exchange technologies for use cases that have already been defi
ned.

Also, I added your text to the security considerations section. I will post this in the -02 revision once we sort out the Introduction.

Thanks,
Dave



-----Original Message-----
From: Panos Kampanakis (pkampana) [mailto:pkampana@cisco.com]
Sent: Thursday, May 18, 2017 12:30 PM
To: Waltermire, David A. (Fed) <david.waltermire@nist.gov>; Panic@ietf.org
Subject: RE: Scope Draft is Available

ACK. Below some proposed text:

For the Security Considerations Section:
=C2=A0=C2=A0Further discussion here w= ill address the threat introduced to the network
elements by the posture information collection. There should be protections
implemented to prevent the element from being vulnerable to DoS attacks
by frequent polling or pushing of posture data.

For the Introduction Section:
=C2=A0=C2=A0...automation. PANIC aims= to reuse available standards for posture
assessment where possible. It will avoid redefining info exchange
technologies for usecases that have already been defined.

For the Introduction Section:
=C2=A0=C2=A0...manage those
=C2=A0=C2=A0endpoints. Endpoints / El= ements include hardware, software of virtual
network infrastructure devices.





hardware, software or virtual (NFV fails in this


category)



-----Original Message-----
From: Waltermire, David A. (Fed) [mailto:david.wa= ltermire@nist.gov]
Sent: Thursday, May 18, 2017 10:59 AM
To: Panos Kampanakis (pkampana) <pkampana@cisco.com>; Panic@ietf.org
Subject: RE: Scope Draft is Available

Panos,

Thank you for providing feedback on the PANIC scope draft.

Comments are inline below.



-----Original Message-----
From: Panos Kampanakis (pkampana) [mailto:pkampana@cisco.com]
Sent: Thursday, May 18, 2017 10:37 AM
To: Waltermire, David A. (Fed) <david.waltermire@nist.gov>;
Panic@ietf.org
Subject: RE: Scope Draft is Available

Hi David,

The document is clear.

One semantic objection I have is about the use of the word endpoint. I
believe the term is commonly used for user machines (laptops, cells,
tablets) . Network element or element is a little clearer.


I don't have a dog in this fight. I am happy to go either way (e.g., endpoint,
network element) if there is a preference in the group for one term or the
other. I'd like to hear other opinions on this.



A susggestion: The security section could mention the importance of
not introducing security concerns with the posture info collection.
For example a device should not be DoSable by too many polls, or it
should not push often enough that would introduce performance concerns

etc.

I think this is a good idea. Do you have some text in mind to drop in?



I think it will also be beneficial to be explicit about the types of
network elements. In the broad technologies that exist today, these
elements could be hardware, software or virtual (NFV fails in this
category). All of those should be in scope for this work.


All of these are in scope in my view.



Side comment: I would like this standardization effort to try to reuse
data formats and transports wherever possible and not come up with new
posture information descriptions. I think this is a common goal that
SACM has as well.


I share this goal as well. Should we document this in the draft?



Thanks,
Panos


Regards,
Dave



-----Original Message-----
From: Panic [mailto:panic-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of Waltermire,
David A. (Fed)
Sent: Monday, May 15, 2017 11:03 AM
To: Panic@ietf.org
Subject: [Panic] Scope Draft is Available

Welcome to the posture assessment through network information
collection
(PANIC) email list. At the side meeting on March 29th, we started
discussing the problem of how to measure the health of network
devices. We discussed the need to collect posture information from
network devices to support asset, software, vulnerability, and
configuration management use cases. We were asked by the group to
share a more detailed description of the intended scope for the PANIC
effort. The follow draft is an attempt to do
so:

https://datatrack= er.ietf.org/doc/draft-waltermire-panic-scope/

We would appreciate review of and comments on this draft. At this
point, we want to know if the this scope clearly defines the problem to be

solved.


Please let us know if you have any questions or concerns, or if you
think the scope draft is adequate.

Regards,
David Waltermire

______________________________= _________________
Panic mailing list
Panic@ietf.org
https://www.ietf.org/mailman/li= stinfo/panic


__________________________________= _____________
Panic mailing list
Panic@ietf.org
https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listin= fo/panic

=C2=A0

--
"Esta vez no fallaremos, Doctor Infierno"

Dr Diego R. Lopez
Telefonica I+D
http://people.tid.es/diego.lopez/

e-mail: diego.r.lopez@telefonica.com
Tel: =C2=A0 =C2=A0+34 913 129 041
Mobile: +34 682 051 091
----------------------------------

=C2=A0

=C2=A0


Este mensaje y sus adjuntos se dirigen exclusivamente a su destinatario, puede contener informaci=C3=B3n privilegiada o confidencial y es para uso exclusivo de la persona o entidad de destino. Si no es usted. el destinatario indicado, queda notificado de que la lectura, utilizaci=C3=B3= n, divulgaci=C3=B3n y/o copia sin autorizaci=C3= =B3n puede estar prohibida en virtud de la legislaci=C3=B3n vigente. Si ha recibido este mensaje por error, le rogamos que nos lo comunique inmediatamente por esta misma v=C3=ADa y proceda a su destrucci=C3=B3n.

The information contained in this transmission is privileged and confidential information intended only for the use of the individual or entity named above. If the reader of this message is not the intended recipient, you are hereby notified that any dissemination, distribution or copying of this communication is strictly prohibited. If you have received this transmission in error, do not read it. Please immediately reply to the sender that you have received this communication in error and then delete it.

Esta mensagem e seus anexos se dirigem exclusivamente ao seu destinat=C3=A1rio, pode conter informa=C3=A7=C3=A3o privilegiada ou confidencial e =C3=A9 para uso exclusivo da pessoa ou entidade de destino. Se n=C3=A3o = =C3=A9 vossa senhoria o destinat=C3=A1rio indicado, fica notificado de que a leitura, utiliza=C3=A7=C3=A3o, divulga=C3=A7=C3=A3o e/= ou c=C3=B3pia sem autoriza=C3=A7=C3=A3o pode estar proibida em = virtude da legisla=C3=A7=C3=A3o vigente. Se recebeu e= sta mensagem por erro, rogamos-lhe que nos o comunique imediatamente por esta mesma via e proceda a sua destrui=C3=A7=C3=A3o 




_________________________________________=
______
Panic mailing list
Panic@ietf.org=

https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/panic

=C2=A0

_______________________________________________ Panic mailing list Panic@ietf.org https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/panic 
_______________________________________________
Panic mailing list
Panic@ietf.org
https://www.ietf.org/m=
ailman/listinfo/panic

--001a1143b752b4fcdb0552e1ab58-- From nobody Tue Jun 27 12:45:45 2017 Return-Path: X-Original-To: panic@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: panic@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id E5FBE12EB1D for ; Tue, 27 Jun 2017 12:45:43 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.741 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.741 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_BRBL_LASTEXT=1.449, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-2.3, RP_MATCHES_RCVD=-0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, T_KAM_HTML_FONT_INVALID=0.01, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id LEuLDq0IbS5r for ; Tue, 27 Jun 2017 12:45:38 -0700 (PDT) Received: from z9m9z.htt-consult.com (z9m9z.htt-consult.com [50.253.254.3]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id C79201270A7 for ; Tue, 27 Jun 2017 12:45:37 -0700 (PDT) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by z9m9z.htt-consult.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 309556218F; Tue, 27 Jun 2017 15:45:35 -0400 (EDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at htt-consult.com Received: from z9m9z.htt-consult.com ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (z9m9z.htt-consult.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with LMTP id wV0RujhC4grN; Tue, 27 Jun 2017 15:45:19 -0400 (EDT) Received: from lx120e.htt-consult.com (unknown [192.168.160.12]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher DHE-RSA-AES128-SHA (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by z9m9z.htt-consult.com (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 7A296621F2; Tue, 27 Jun 2017 15:45:17 -0400 (EDT) To: Jessica Fitzgerald-McKay , "Waltermire, David A. (Fed)" References: <2c391fc46bca4900875ee3b0514df42b@XCH-ALN-010.cisco.com> <7ddec0441a2d492f979c27325dfe1fdb@XCH-ALN-010.cisco.com> <3c2c18cd-90a5-ed7f-d803-f2906f3d116b@htt-consult.com> Cc: "Panic@ietf.org" , "Panos Kampanakis (pkampana)" , "Diego R. Lopez" From: Robert Moskowitz Message-ID: Date: Tue, 27 Jun 2017 15:44:58 -0400 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; Linux x86_64; rv:45.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/45.8.0 MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="------------9A70801D688E78A882B49FB3" Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Panic] Scope Draft is Available X-BeenThere: panic@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 Precedence: list List-Id: "Posture Assessment Through Network Information Collection \(panic\)" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 27 Jun 2017 19:45:44 -0000 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --------------9A70801D688E78A882B49FB3 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit I have reviewed this version and it is much better. Besides NETCONF, rfc6241, there is RESTCONF, rfc8040. And there is the event notification rfc (5277) and draft. Perhaps verbage to work with the NETCONF wg is appropriate and invite them to the session? Finally sent 2 in the Intro is too long to read well (58 words!). It should be presented as a list for readablity. Other than these points, I think we are ready to start filling in the blanks. Bob On 06/26/2017 10:47 AM, Jessica Fitzgerald-McKay wrote: > All, > I have posted an updated draft scope here: > https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/html/draft-waltermire-panic-scope-02. > > I think we have addressed most of the issues brought up on list. I do > not feel I adequately addressed making NAT out of scope (per Daniel's > request) and would like some help on that. > > Bob, to your questions on the relationship between our work and > netconf, I think that we could best focus our time on extending YANG > to meet the requirements we derive from this scoping statement. So, I > stated that explicitly in this draft. I'd like to get feedback from > the group on that approach, so please chime in if you > like/dislike/love/loathe that idea. > > Thanks, > Jess > > On Fri, Jun 16, 2017 at 3:11 PM, Waltermire, David A. (Fed) > > wrote: > > Hi Bob, > > Thanks for asking. We have been working on an update. We hope to > post it soon addressing the feedback we have received so far, > including addressing the comments from your other email today. > > Thanks, > > Dave > > *From:*Robert Moskowitz [mailto:rgm-sec@htt-consult.com > ] > *Sent:* Thursday, June 15, 2017 4:38 PM > *To:* Waltermire, David A. (Fed) >; Diego R. Lopez > > > > > *Cc:* Panic@ietf.org ; Panos Kampanakis > (pkampana) > > *Subject:* Re: [Panic] Scope Draft is Available > > David, > > Do you have an update to your draft? > > I don't see anything past the Apr 11 01.txt draft. > > thanks > > On 05/19/2017 10:09 AM, Waltermire, David A. (Fed) wrote: > > Diego, thanks for the edits. > > All, > > > I am going to drop this text into an update of the scope > draft. I’ll wait until Monday to work on posting the draft > update. Please let me know if any other changes to the draft > are desired. > > Thanks, > > Dave > > *From:*Panic [mailto:panic-bounces@ietf.org] *On Behalf Of > *Diego R. Lopez > *Sent:* Friday, May 19, 2017 2:23 AM > *To:* Waltermire, David A. (Fed) > > *Cc:* Panic@ietf.org ; Panos Kampanakis > (pkampana) > *Subject:* Re: [Panic] Scope Draft is Available > > Hi, > > I agree with David’s proposal, with just a few minor changes > with respect to the original text, to make it more general, > completely covering the virtual cases (NFV) and eliminating > the term “device†to avoid too many equivalences... > > Network operators need to know what is connected to their > organization's networks so that they can properly manage those > network elements. Managing these network endpoints, consisting > of physical and virtual network infrastructure, requires > access to information pertaining to them, including endpoint > identity, the identity of software installed on the element, > and the configuration setting values for the installed > software. This information can be collected from different > classes of elements over different protocols and using > different data models. PANIC will identify a standardized > solution to collect posture information for network element, > and allow that information to be shared with authorized users > and elements on the network supporting security automation. > PANIC aims to reuse available standards for posture assessment > where possible. The PANIC effort will avoid redefining > information exchange technologies for use cases that have > already been defined. > > Be goode, > > On 18 May 2017, at 20:01 , Waltermire, David A. (Fed) > > wrote: > > Panos, thanks for providing text. > > We have participants that are approaching this problem > space that are accustomed to using endpoint and network > element. How about the following introduction text to draw > an equivalence between these terms? > > Network operators need to know what is connected to their > organization's networks so that they can properly manage > those network elements. Managing these network elements, > consisting of physical and virtual network infrastructure > devices, requires access to information pertaining to > these endpoint devices, including device identity, the > identity of software installed on the endpoint, and the > configuration setting values for the installed software. > This information can be collected from different classes > of endpoints over different protocols and using different > data models. PANIC will identify a standardized solution > to collect posture information for network devices, and > allow that information to be shared with authorized users > and devices on the network supporting security automation. > PANIC aims to reuse available standards for posture > assessment where possible. The PANIC effort will avoid > redefining information exchange technologies for use cases > that have already been defi > ned. > > Also, I added your text to the security considerations > section. I will post this in the -02 revision once we sort > out the Introduction. > > Thanks, > Dave > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: Panos Kampanakis (pkampana) > [mailto:pkampana@cisco.com] > Sent: Thursday, May 18, 2017 12:30 PM > To: Waltermire, David A. (Fed) > >; Panic@ietf.org > > Subject: RE: Scope Draft is Available > > ACK. Below some proposed text: > > For the Security Considerations Section: > Further discussion here will address the threat > introduced to the network > elements by the posture information collection. There > should be protections > implemented to prevent the element from being > vulnerable to DoS attacks > by frequent polling or pushing of posture data. > > For the Introduction Section: > ...automation. PANIC aims to reuse available > standards for posture > assessment where possible. It will avoid redefining > info exchange > technologies for usecases that have already been defined. > > For the Introduction Section: > ...manage those > endpoints. Endpoints / Elements include hardware, > software of virtual > network infrastructure devices. > > > > > > hardware, software or virtual (NFV fails in this > > > category) > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: Waltermire, David A. (Fed) > [mailto:david.waltermire@nist.gov > ] > Sent: Thursday, May 18, 2017 10:59 AM > To: Panos Kampanakis (pkampana) >; Panic@ietf.org > > Subject: RE: Scope Draft is Available > > Panos, > > Thank you for providing feedback on the PANIC scope draft. > > Comments are inline below. > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: Panos Kampanakis (pkampana) > [mailto:pkampana@cisco.com] > Sent: Thursday, May 18, 2017 10:37 AM > To: Waltermire, David A. (Fed) > >; > Panic@ietf.org > Subject: RE: Scope Draft is Available > > Hi David, > > The document is clear. > > One semantic objection I have is about the use of > the word endpoint. I > believe the term is commonly used for user > machines (laptops, cells, > tablets) . Network element or element is a little > clearer. > > > I don't have a dog in this fight. I am happy to go > either way (e.g., endpoint, > network element) if there is a preference in the group > for one term or the > other. I'd like to hear other opinions on this. > > > > A susggestion: The security section could mention > the importance of > not introducing security concerns with the posture > info collection. > For example a device should not be DoSable by too > many polls, or it > should not push often enough that would introduce > performance concerns > > etc. > > I think this is a good idea. Do you have some text in > mind to drop in? > > > > I think it will also be beneficial to be explicit > about the types of > network elements. In the broad technologies that > exist today, these > elements could be hardware, software or virtual > (NFV fails in this > category). All of those should be in scope for > this work. > > > All of these are in scope in my view. > > > > Side comment: I would like this standardization > effort to try to reuse > data formats and transports wherever possible and > not come up with new > posture information descriptions. I think this is > a common goal that > SACM has as well. > > > I share this goal as well. Should we document this in > the draft? > > > > Thanks, > Panos > > > Regards, > Dave > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: Panic [mailto:panic-bounces@ietf.org] On > Behalf Of Waltermire, > David A. (Fed) > Sent: Monday, May 15, 2017 11:03 AM > To: Panic@ietf.org > Subject: [Panic] Scope Draft is Available > > Welcome to the posture assessment through network > information > collection > (PANIC) email list. At the side meeting on March > 29th, we started > discussing the problem of how to measure the > health of network > devices. We discussed the need to collect posture > information from > network devices to support asset, software, > vulnerability, and > configuration management use cases. We were asked > by the group to > share a more detailed description of the intended > scope for the PANIC > effort. The follow draft is an attempt to do > so: > > https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-waltermire-panic-scope/ > > > We would appreciate review of and comments on this > draft. At this > point, we want to know if the this scope clearly > defines the problem to be > > solved. > > > Please let us know if you have any questions or > concerns, or if you > think the scope draft is adequate. > > Regards, > David Waltermire > > _______________________________________________ > Panic mailing list > Panic@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/panic > > > > _______________________________________________ > Panic mailing list > Panic@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/panic > > > -- > "Esta vez no fallaremos, Doctor Infierno" > > Dr Diego R. Lopez > Telefonica I+D > http://people.tid.es/diego.lopez/ > > > e-mail: diego.r.lopez@telefonica.com > > Tel: +34 913 129 041 > Mobile: +34 682 051 091 > ---------------------------------- > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > > Este mensaje y sus adjuntos se dirigen exclusivamente a su > destinatario, puede contener información privilegiada o > confidencial y es para uso exclusivo de la persona o entidad > de destino. Si no es usted. el destinatario indicado, queda > notificado de que la lectura, utilización, divulgación y/o > copia sin autorización puede estar prohibida en virtud de la > legislación vigente. Si ha recibido este mensaje por error, le > rogamos que nos lo comunique inmediatamente por esta misma vía > y proceda a su destrucción. > > The information contained in this transmission is privileged > and confidential information intended only for the use of the > individual or entity named above. If the reader of this > message is not the intended recipient, you are hereby notified > that any dissemination, distribution or copying of this > communication is strictly prohibited. If you have received > this transmission in error, do not read it. Please immediately > reply to the sender that you have received this communication > in error and then delete it. > > Esta mensagem e seus anexos se dirigem exclusivamente ao seu > destinatário, pode conter informação privilegiada ou > confidencial e é para uso exclusivo da pessoa ou entidade de > destino. Se não é vossa senhoria o destinatário indicado, fica > notificado de que a leitura, utilização, divulgação e/ou cópia > sem autorização pode estar proibida em virtude da legislação > vigente. Se recebeu esta mensagem por erro, rogamos-lhe que > nos o comunique imediatamente por esta mesma via e proceda a > sua destruição > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > Panic mailing list > > Panic@ietf.org > > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/panic > > > _______________________________________________ Panic mailing list > Panic@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/panic > > > _______________________________________________ > Panic mailing list > Panic@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/panic --------------9A70801D688E78A882B49FB3 Content-Type: text/html; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit I have reviewed this version and it is much better.

Besides NETCONF, rfc6241, there is RESTCONF, rfc8040.  And there is the event notification rfc (5277) and draft.

Perhaps verbage to work with the NETCONF wg is appropriate and invite them to the session?

Finally sent 2 in the Intro is too long to read well (58 words!).  It should be presented as a list for readablity.

Other than these points, I think we are ready to start filling in the blanks.

Bob


On 06/26/2017 10:47 AM, Jessica Fitzgerald-McKay wrote:
All,
I have posted an updated draft scope here:  https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/html/draft-waltermire-panic-scope-02.

I think we have addressed most of the issues brought up on list. I do not feel I adequately addressed making NAT out of scope (per Daniel's request) and would like some help on that.

Bob, to your questions on the relationship between our work and netconf, I think that we could best focus our time on extending YANG to meet the requirements we derive from this scoping statement. So, I stated that explicitly in this draft. I'd like to get feedback from the group on that approach, so please chime in if you like/dislike/love/loathe that idea.

Thanks,
Jess

On Fri, Jun 16, 2017 at 3:11 PM, Waltermire, David A. (Fed) <david.waltermire@nist.gov> wrote:

Hi Bob,

 

Thanks for asking. We have been working on an update. We hope to post it soon addressing the feedback we have received so far, including addressing the comments from your other email today.

 

Thanks,

Dave

 

From: Robert Moskowitz [mailto:rgm-sec@htt-consult.com]
Sent: Thursday, June 15, 2017 4:38 PM
To: Waltermire, David A. (Fed) <david.waltermire@nist.gov>; Diego R. Lopez <diego.r.lopez@telefonica.com>


Cc: Panic@ietf.org; Panos Kampanakis (pkampana) <pkampana@cisco.com>
Subject: Re: [Panic] Scope Draft is Available

 

David,

Do you have an update to your draft?

I don't see anything past the Apr 11 01.txt draft.

thanks

On 05/19/2017 10:09 AM, Waltermire, David A. (Fed) wrote:

Diego, thanks for the edits.

 

All,


I am going to drop this text into an update of the scope draft. I’ll wait until Monday to work on posting the draft update. Please let me know if any other changes to the draft are desired.

 

Thanks,

Dave

 

From: Panic [mailto:panic-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of Diego R. Lopez
Sent: Friday, May 19, 2017 2:23 AM
To: Waltermire, David A. (Fed) <david.waltermire@nist.gov>
Cc: Panic@ietf.org; Panos Kampanakis (pkampana) <pkampana@cisco.com>
Subject: Re: [Panic] Scope Draft is Available

 

Hi,

 

I agree with David’s proposal, with just a few minor changes with respect to the original text, to make it more general, completely covering the virtual cases (NFV) and eliminating the term “device†to avoid too many equivalences...

 

Network operators need to know what is connected to their organization's networks so that they can properly manage those network elements. Managing these network endpoints, consisting of physical and virtual network infrastructure, requires access to information pertaining to them, including endpoint identity, the identity of software installed on the element, and the configuration setting values for the installed software. This information can be collected from different classes of elements over different protocols and using different data models. PANIC will identify a standardized solution to collect posture information for network element, and allow that information to be shared with authorized users and elements on the network supporting security automation. PANIC aims to reuse available standards for posture assessment where possible. The PANIC effort will avoid redefining information exchange technologies for use cases that have already been defined.

 

Be goode,

 

On 18 May 2017, at 20:01 , Waltermire, David A. (Fed) <david.waltermire@nist.gov> wrote:

 

Panos, thanks for providing text.

We have participants that are approaching this problem space that are accustomed to using endpoint and network element. How about the following introduction text to draw an equivalence between these terms?

Network operators need to know what is connected to their organization's networks so that they can properly manage those network elements. Managing these network elements, consisting of physical and virtual network infrastructure devices, requires access to information pertaining to these endpoint devices, including device identity, the identity of software installed on the endpoint, and the configuration setting values for the installed software. This information can be collected from different classes of endpoints over different protocols and using different data models. PANIC will identify a standardized solution to collect posture information for network devices, and allow that information to be shared with authorized users and devices on the network supporting security automation. PANIC aims to reuse available standards for posture assessment where possible. The PANIC effort will avoid redefining information exchange technologies for use cases that have already been defi
ned.

Also, I added your text to the security considerations section. I will post this in the -02 revision once we sort out the Introduction.

Thanks,
Dave



-----Original Message-----
From: Panos Kampanakis (pkampana) [mailto:pkampana@cisco.com]
Sent: Thursday, May 18, 2017 12:30 PM
To: Waltermire, David A. (Fed) <david.waltermire@nist.gov>; Panic@ietf.org
Subject: RE: Scope Draft is Available

ACK. Below some proposed text:

For the Security Considerations Section:
  Further discussion here will address the threat introduced to the network
elements by the posture information collection. There should be protections
implemented to prevent the element from being vulnerable to DoS attacks
by frequent polling or pushing of posture data.

For the Introduction Section:
  ...automation. PANIC aims to reuse available standards for posture
assessment where possible. It will avoid redefining info exchange
technologies for usecases that have already been defined.

For the Introduction Section:
  ...manage those
  endpoints. Endpoints / Elements include hardware, software of virtual
network infrastructure devices.





hardware, software or virtual (NFV fails in this


category)



-----Original Message-----
From: Waltermire, David A. (Fed) [mailto:david.waltermire@nist.gov]
Sent: Thursday, May 18, 2017 10:59 AM
To: Panos Kampanakis (pkampana) <pkampana@cisco.com>; Panic@ietf.org
Subject: RE: Scope Draft is Available

Panos,

Thank you for providing feedback on the PANIC scope draft.

Comments are inline below.



-----Original Message-----
From: Panos Kampanakis (pkampana) [mailto:pkampana@cisco.com]
Sent: Thursday, May 18, 2017 10:37 AM
To: Waltermire, David A. (Fed) <david.waltermire@nist.gov>;
Panic@ietf.org
Subject: RE: Scope Draft is Available

Hi David,

The document is clear.

One semantic objection I have is about the use of the word endpoint. I
believe the term is commonly used for user machines (laptops, cells,
tablets) . Network element or element is a little clearer.


I don't have a dog in this fight. I am happy to go either way (e.g., endpoint,
network element) if there is a preference in the group for one term or the
other. I'd like to hear other opinions on this.



A susggestion: The security section could mention the importance of
not introducing security concerns with the posture info collection.
For example a device should not be DoSable by too many polls, or it
should not push often enough that would introduce performance concerns

etc.

I think this is a good idea. Do you have some text in mind to drop in?



I think it will also be beneficial to be explicit about the types of
network elements. In the broad technologies that exist today, these
elements could be hardware, software or virtual (NFV fails in this
category). All of those should be in scope for this work.


All of these are in scope in my view.



Side comment: I would like this standardization effort to try to reuse
data formats and transports wherever possible and not come up with new
posture information descriptions. I think this is a common goal that
SACM has as well.


I share this goal as well. Should we document this in the draft?



Thanks,
Panos


Regards,
Dave



-----Original Message-----
From: Panic [mailto:panic-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of Waltermire,
David A. (Fed)
Sent: Monday, May 15, 2017 11:03 AM
To: Panic@ietf.org
Subject: [Panic] Scope Draft is Available

Welcome to the posture assessment through network information
collection
(PANIC) email list. At the side meeting on March 29th, we started
discussing the problem of how to measure the health of network
devices. We discussed the need to collect posture information from
network devices to support asset, software, vulnerability, and
configuration management use cases. We were asked by the group to
share a more detailed description of the intended scope for the PANIC
effort. The follow draft is an attempt to do
so:

https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-waltermire-panic-scope/

We would appreciate review of and comments on this draft. At this
point, we want to know if the this scope clearly defines the problem to be

solved.


Please let us know if you have any questions or concerns, or if you
think the scope draft is adequate.

Regards,
David Waltermire

_______________________________________________
Panic mailing list
Panic@ietf.org
https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/panic


_______________________________________________
Panic mailing list
Panic@ietf.org
https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/panic

 

--
"Esta vez no fallaremos, Doctor Infierno"

Dr Diego R. Lopez
Telefonica I+D
http://people.tid.es/diego.lopez/

e-mail: diego.r.lopez@telefonica.com
Tel:    +34 913 129 041
Mobile: +34 682 051 091
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_______________________________________________
Panic mailing list
Panic@ietf.org
https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/panic

 

_______________________________________________ Panic mailing list Panic@ietf.org https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/panic 
_______________________________________________
Panic mailing list
Panic@ietf.org
https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/panic
--------------9A70801D688E78A882B49FB3-- From nobody Tue Jun 27 21:14:10 2017 Return-Path: X-Original-To: panic@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: panic@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id C5C62127867 for ; Tue, 27 Jun 2017 21:14:07 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -14.522 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-14.522 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_HI=-5, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_H3=-0.01, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_WL=-0.01, RP_MATCHES_RCVD=-0.001, SPF_HELO_PASS=-0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, USER_IN_DEF_DKIM_WL=-7.5] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (1024-bit key) header.d=cisco.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id HE02AjpAbZ8u for ; Tue, 27 Jun 2017 21:14:03 -0700 (PDT) Received: from alln-iport-5.cisco.com (alln-iport-5.cisco.com [173.37.142.92]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher DHE-RSA-SEED-SHA (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 7185C126B6D for ; Tue, 27 Jun 2017 21:14:03 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/simple; d=cisco.com; i=@cisco.com; l=61122; q=dns/txt; s=iport; t=1498623243; x=1499832843; h=from:to:cc:subject:date:message-id:references: in-reply-to:mime-version; bh=kU4DDch79UVzob1LbcAk8kFALoG3UvSyBmdv7UPWjd4=; b=PEEpxyEzm6oensTIUbxkfMiatxuM3u6E8UpTB4w39v7pftO5eswe+9xE HnBRo04YvRbEBWMtnD+phe0C0yuYFxdn+Rg4xlkYJJt+HJdYDDx0lW3i+ ra36HO48KqzfGkhSd6ET0KLHssmpgi4HIUbfaWSBQdBqTVQQdtT6CHxkq Y=; X-IronPort-Anti-Spam-Filtered: true X-IronPort-Anti-Spam-Result: =?us-ascii?q?A0C/AAAMLFNZ/5tdJa1SAQkZAQEBAQEBA?= =?us-ascii?q?QEBAQEHAQEBAQGCb2ljgQ4Hg2WKGZFoiCqNUIIOAyEBCoI1gzsCGoJpPxgBAgE?= =?us-ascii?q?BAQEBAQFrKIUYAQEBAQMBARgJCkEEBwwEAgEGAhEEAQEhAQYDAgICHwYCCRQJC?= =?us-ascii?q?AIEDgUIE4kxTAMVEJMWnWKCJoc7DYQWAQEBAQEBAQEBAQEBAQEBAQEBAQEBHYM?= =?us-ascii?q?ngTGCG2h5gySCV4FjAQcBCgEzCAgPgl2CYQWJVI1NhxM7Aoc0h04ahESCE1aEc?= =?us-ascii?q?4NuhlOJK4I9iTsBDxA4P0ALdBVJhREcgWZ2AYcJgSOBDQEBAQ?= X-IronPort-AV: E=Sophos;i="5.40,273,1496102400"; d="scan'208,217";a="445068490" Received: from rcdn-core-4.cisco.com ([173.37.93.155]) by alln-iport-5.cisco.com with ESMTP/TLS/DHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384; 28 Jun 2017 04:14:01 +0000 Received: from XCH-RCD-010.cisco.com (xch-rcd-010.cisco.com [173.37.102.20]) by rcdn-core-4.cisco.com (8.14.5/8.14.5) with ESMTP id v5S4E1Hv026853 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Wed, 28 Jun 2017 04:14:01 GMT Received: from xch-aln-010.cisco.com (173.36.7.20) by XCH-RCD-010.cisco.com (173.37.102.20) with Microsoft SMTP Server (TLS) id 15.0.1210.3; Tue, 27 Jun 2017 23:14:00 -0500 Received: from xch-aln-010.cisco.com ([173.36.7.20]) by XCH-ALN-010.cisco.com ([173.36.7.20]) with mapi id 15.00.1210.000; Tue, 27 Jun 2017 23:14:00 -0500 From: "Panos Kampanakis (pkampana)" To: Jessica Fitzgerald-McKay , "Waltermire, David A. (Fed)" CC: "Panic@ietf.org" Thread-Topic: [Panic] Scope Draft is Available Thread-Index: AdLNjFoi4UJSdMycRuOkrf0darmESQBj41DwADKpxpAAAE3vkAAGERdgABoV6IAAECSYQAVmDMYAAC9E7wAB7bLiAABD9xnA Date: Wed, 28 Jun 2017 04:14:00 +0000 Message-ID: References: <2c391fc46bca4900875ee3b0514df42b@XCH-ALN-010.cisco.com> <7ddec0441a2d492f979c27325dfe1fdb@XCH-ALN-010.cisco.com> <3c2c18cd-90a5-ed7f-d803-f2906f3d116b@htt-consult.com> In-Reply-To: Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-ms-exchange-transport-fromentityheader: Hosted x-originating-ip: [10.82.242.76] Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="_000_c23ef7b6788e4cedbde32c6ba63ab7f1XCHALN010ciscocom_" MIME-Version: 1.0 Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Panic] Scope Draft is Available X-BeenThere: panic@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 Precedence: list List-Id: "Posture Assessment Through Network Information Collection \(panic\)" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: 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(Fed)" , Robert Moskowitz , "Panic@ietf.org" , "Panos Kampanakis (pkampana)" Thread-Topic: [Panic] Scope Draft is Available Thread-Index: AdLNjFoi4UJSdMycRuOkrf0darmESQBj41DwADKpxpAAAE3vkAAGERdgABoV6IAAECSYQAd4jqRcAFHgVYA= Date: Wed, 28 Jun 2017 05:52:15 +0000 Message-ID: <74320B98-DA44-49C3-8E9B-9B92BE80074B@telefonica.com> References: <2c391fc46bca4900875ee3b0514df42b@XCH-ALN-010.cisco.com> <7ddec0441a2d492f979c27325dfe1fdb@XCH-ALN-010.cisco.com> <3c2c18cd-90a5-ed7f-d803-f2906f3d116b@htt-consult.com> In-Reply-To: Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: authentication-results: gmail.com; dkim=none (message not signed) header.d=none;gmail.com; dmarc=none action=none header.from=telefonica.com; x-originating-ip: [83.44.244.186] x-ms-publictraffictype: Email x-microsoft-exchange-diagnostics: 1; DB6PR0601MB2167; 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