From nobody Mon Oct 5 01:04:40 2015 Return-Path: X-Original-To: payload@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: payload@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1F13F1B4BCA for ; Mon, 5 Oct 2015 01:04:39 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.999 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.999 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 2XMVCK9YbGx0 for ; Mon, 5 Oct 2015 01:04:37 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail-wi0-x22d.google.com (mail-wi0-x22d.google.com [IPv6:2a00:1450:400c:c05::22d]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 7BE431B4BC9 for ; Mon, 5 Oct 2015 01:04:37 -0700 (PDT) Received: by wicfx3 with SMTP id fx3so107123441wic.1 for ; Mon, 05 Oct 2015 01:04:36 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20120113; h=from:to:cc:subject:date:message-id:mime-version:content-type :thread-index:content-language; bh=qQWALSdsr/eih52mKX42Y4UKNInC5NospnxeT5UEvsI=; b=0F2BL6KuFofC5c8u9zKBG1ZT8fXsKec8aPOn60KkAKDQonfEc21RZxL9gAILhkGCNU B9vO6a15otQPhkykZN993CV5HCQJ1iuGsY4HcAADvCyFI5b1+3GODRBMwiCipuas1uSm yfdprMm1WLCJ+OC+AM5X/z2opFmvJzptupcjwiqS5H/ZYrS5c+ZFvITW+jLhIQLSRTIV HEwFYsiNkhx+31A867xdZVlWdMR+sGBtflcs5Pf+xw8Vcg1gvyFmQeG1Slim2sTGOCJd 0FPVXzcbGSnqkXQYj9g7eVi8mR1ISoXabuAy6+QORgmXzxyn90QHEf7SsyHNJCWYRfiY udIw== X-Received: by 10.180.8.164 with SMTP id s4mr10632086wia.5.1444032276021; Mon, 05 Oct 2015 01:04:36 -0700 (PDT) Received: from RoniPC (bzq-109-65-15-14.red.bezeqint.net. [109.65.15.14]) by smtp.gmail.com with ESMTPSA id jq10sm25487569wjc.40.2015.10.05.01.04.34 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=OTHER); Mon, 05 Oct 2015 01:04:34 -0700 (PDT) From: "Roni Even" To: Date: Mon, 5 Oct 2015 11:04:33 +0300 Message-ID: <049a01d0ff44$78d79e00$6a86da00$@gmail.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_049B_01D0FF5D.9E25E770" X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook 14.0 Thread-Index: AdD/RHgKqxGfy0O+TvKsjyCzCuLPNw== Content-Language: he Archived-At: Cc: "'Ali C. Begen $abegen$'" Subject: [payload] Requset for agenda time for payload at IETF94 X-BeenThere: payload@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: Audio/Video Transport Payloads working group discussion list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 05 Oct 2015 08:04:39 -0000 This is a multipart message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_049B_01D0FF5D.9E25E770 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hi, The preliminary agenda of IETF-94 was published. The Payload WG meeting is scheduled as follows: Tuesday, November 3, 2015 17:10-18:40 Room 413 ART Payload Audio/Video Transport Payloads WG Note that this scheduling is subject to change. Please send the chairs your requests for agenda items. Thanks and Regards, Roni Even Payload co-chair ------=_NextPart_000_049B_01D0FF5D.9E25E770 Content-Type: text/html; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

Hi,

The = preliminary agenda of IETF-94 was published. The Payload WG meeting is = scheduled as follows:

Tuesday, = November 3, 2015

17:10-18:40 =

Room 413 = ART = = Payload = &= nbsp; Audio/Video Transport Payloads = WG

Note that = this scheduling is subject to change.

Please send = the chairs your requests for agenda items.

Thanks and = Regards,

Roni Even

Payload = co-chair

------=_NextPart_000_049B_01D0FF5D.9E25E770-- From nobody Mon Oct 5 02:48:42 2015 Return-Path: X-Original-To: payload@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: payload@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1E8A31B34E0 for ; Mon, 5 Oct 2015 02:48:40 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: 0.499 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=0.499 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_40=-0.001, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, J_CHICKENPOX_34=0.6, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id Ex1595A1bEVD for ; Mon, 5 Oct 2015 02:48:38 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail-ob0-x229.google.com (mail-ob0-x229.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:4003:c01::229]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 2CEB71B4EEB for ; Mon, 5 Oct 2015 02:48:38 -0700 (PDT) Received: by obcgx8 with SMTP id gx8so124120114obc.3 for ; Mon, 05 Oct 2015 02:48:37 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20120113; h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:date:message-id:subject:from:to :cc:content-type; bh=z+2m6SuBl4fAoDGxHtCmxp0nmYw5mtBnddQwbjLpZv8=; b=mN/awacKg3PO6a0T+S61NkyUKD5sKc8amM9n1t/SzeYcNko+co1IfvwgbFIPtv/TzV L+KJNyb235FJh4LJix7zbaHTQITI03I7JaAT/gyMH7009ZAPsKrtyOHjrnKM1zneZa0S ZKvI8dLAKTB2bOGxl/rK3UMf4/KpHThfxBS6cLxXkR3biRhYkJeQcsZGuKZqJiWQW6KF AYl4hysoSplmttiUHlxOp6kG5RFKF55aVWffcCgPLcvLCljsOiZTYuicPwA4RsSgZpID /RbK1LHQ+BWu9gSgG/PqXrzWkR9ZWA63aTYe8nwJ6p4CgaYI2itb/v1yn4b6yCuuAX/g yHTA== MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Received: by 10.60.33.202 with SMTP id t10mr16069918oei.66.1444038517499; Mon, 05 Oct 2015 02:48:37 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.202.213.83 with HTTP; Mon, 5 Oct 2015 02:48:37 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: References:

Date: Mon, 5 Oct 2015 12:48:37 +0300 Message-ID: From: "Ali C. Begen" To: Thomas Edwards Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Archived-At: Cc: "payload@ietf.org" Subject: Re: [payload] I-D Action: draft-ietf-payload-rtp-ancillary-01.txt X-BeenThere: payload@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: Audio/Video Transport Payloads working group discussion list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 05 Oct 2015 09:48:40 -0000 Hi Thomas the chances look good to me, but rather than saying "will be ignored", you should probably say "SHALL be ignored". -acbegen On Thu, Oct 1, 2015 at 2:16 AM, Thomas Edwards wrote: > I believe that Kevin Gross pointed out some important issues in > draft-ietf-payload-rtp-ancillary-01, and I would like to ask the Payload WG > to allow me to update the I-D to draft-ietf-rtp-ancillary-02. A draft is > attached. > > Also addition to some off-list comments: > > To "An ANC packet with the header fields Line_Number of 0x7FF and > Horizontal_Offset of 0xFFF SHALL be considered to be carried without any > specific location within the field or frame" add ", and in such a case the > "C" field will be ignored." > > My replies to Kevin inline starting with "TE>". > > -Thomas Edwards > FOX > > From: Kevin Gross > Date: Thursday, June 4, 2015 at 3:13 PM > To: FNG > Cc: "payload@ietf.org" > Subject: Re: [payload] I-D Action: draft-ietf-payload-rtp-ancillary-01.txt > > Thomas, > > I have some additional comments on your draft: > > > Abstract: > > Consider providing a definition for "KLV" early on > > TE> I will get rid of "KLV Metadata", as it is a very rare use case. > > 1 Introduction: > > Jargon attenuation > s/carriage of metadata within the bit stream multiplex of a Serial Digital > Interface/carriage of metadata within the bit stream of a Serial Digital > Interface > > Payload does not describe > s/This RTP payload supports ANC data packets/This memo describes an RTP > payload which supports ANC data packets > > Quotes unnecessary > s/restored to their "original" locations/restored to their original > locations > > Other wording improvements > s/This payload could be used by itself, or used along with a range of RTP > video formats. In particular, it has been specifically designed so that it > could be used/This ANC payload can be used by itself, or used along with a > range of RTP video formats. In particular, it has been designed so that it > could be used > > TE> Wording improvements accepted > > 2.1 Payload Header Definitions > > Is there a justification you can provide for including Extended Header > Sequence Number. Video payload protocols potentially require this because > there may be many packets per video frame. I don't think that's the case for > ANC. What is the maximum realistic rate for ANC data? > > TE> It depends on what type of ANC data is mapped. There could easily be > several hundred ANC packets per frame if embedded audio is carried in RTP. > There can be as much as 563 Mbps of ANC space in 720p50 HD-SDI. I have had > many inconclusive discussions with experts on this, and my intuition is that > too many bits is better than too few bits when it comes to potential > sequence number over-run, so I would prefer to leave the extended sequence > number in. > > We need some additional information about the ANC format to complete this > draft. How do we find the beginning of each ANC packet in the payload? Where > in an ANC packet is the Ancillary Data Flag (ADF)? > > TE> The Ancillary Data Flag is not present in the payload because it is a > property of an SDI interface involved, and has no bearing on the ANC packet > data. In all digital component interfaces I am aware of it is 000h 3FFh > 3FFh. I will add "It should be noted that the ancillary data flag (ADF) > word is not specifically carried in this RTP payload. The ADF may be > specified in a document defining an interconnecting digital video interface, > otherwise a default ADF is specified by SMPTE ST 292-1 [ST292]." > > Where do DID values come from? > > TE> "The fields DID, SDID, Data_Count, User_Data_Words, and Checksum_Word > represent the 10-bit words carried in the ANC data packet, as per SMPTE ST > 291" > > Based on what I've cleaned from the draft, it seems that we don't need both > Length and ANC_Count. It seems like either would be sufficient to determine > where payload data stops. You could possibly do without either and use the > Length field in the UDP header to know when data ends. > > TE> I prefer the RTP ANC payload parser to know how large the ANC data > packet payload is without having to refer to higher level network > information. Hopefully that is not an RTP anti-pattern. ANC_Count does not > directly tell you a size, only the number of ANC packets present, which > would have to be iterated through as ANC packets may have different lengths. > > It is not clear to me what happens at (next ANC data packet). Is there > another DID here or do we get a new Line_Number or something else? We need a > better description of what an ANC data packet is. > > TE> I thought I was being clear with the statement "And for each ANC data > packet in the payload, the following header fields MUST be present:" but > indeed I am less clear regarding DID,SDID,etc. I will add "For each ANC > data packet in the payload, immediately after the ANC data packet header > fields, the following data fields MUST be present, with the fields DID, > SDID, Data_Count, User_Data_Words, and Checksum_Word representing the 10-bit > words carried in the ANC data packet, as per SMPTE ST 291-1:" > > There's something off in Checksum_Word description, "The lower 8 bits of > Checksum_Word, corresponding to bits b8 (MSB) through b0 (LSB) of the 10-bit > data count word". b8 through b0 is 9 bits. > > TE> Agreed. I will replace with description "It consists of 10 bits, where > bits b8 (MSB) through b0 (LSB) define the checksum value and bit b9 is the > inverse (logical NOT) of bit b8." > > > Kevin Gross - AVA Networks > > On Wed, Jun 3, 2015 at 6:50 PM, Thomas Edwards > wrote: >> >> Based on input from SMPTE members, the following changes were made in the >> new draft-ietf-payload-rtp-ancillary: >> >> 1) Made this explicitly clear: >> >> "If more than 255 ANC data packets need to be carried in a field or frame, >> additional RTP packets carrying ANC data may be sent with the same RTP >> timestamp but with different sequence numbers." >> >> 2) Added a "don't care" value of 0xFFF to Horizontal_Offset to indicate if >> the ANC data is carried without any specific location within the line. >> >> 3) Made this explicitly clear: >> >> "An ANC packet with the header fields Line_Number of 0x7FF and >> Horizontal_Offset of 0xFFF SHALL be considered to be carried without any >> specific location within the field or frame." >> >> 4) Made this explicitly clear: >> >> "When reconstructing an SDI signal based on this payload, it is >> important to place ANC packets into the locations indicated by the ANC >> payload header fields Line_Number and Horizontal_Offset, and also to >> follow the requirements of SMPTE ST 291-1 [ST291] Section 7 "Ancillary >> Data Space Formatting (Component or Composite Interface)", which >> include rules on the placement of initial ANC data into allowed spaces >> as well as the contiguity of ANC data packet sequences within those >> spaces in order to assure that the resulting ANC packets in the SDI >> signal are valid." >> >> 5) A more clear example of multiple DID_SDID parameters in SDP. >> >> 6) Minor editorial nits. >> >> If there is any concern with these changes, please let me know! >> >> -Thomas >> >> -- >> Thomas Edwards >> VP Engineering & Development >> FOX Networks Engineering and Operations >> thomas.edwards@fox.com >> Phone: +1.310.369.6696 >> 10201 West Pico Blvd. >> Los Angeles, CA 90035 >> >> _______________________________________________ >> payload mailing list >> payload@ietf.org >> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/payload > > > > _______________________________________________ > payload mailing list > payload@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/payload > From nobody Tue Oct 6 08:13:06 2015 Return-Path: X-Original-To: payload@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: payload@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 69FD81B40D1 for ; Tue, 6 Oct 2015 08:13:05 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 4rmuuJmDu8-n for ; Tue, 6 Oct 2015 08:13:04 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail-ob0-x22d.google.com (mail-ob0-x22d.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:4003:c01::22d]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 196BB1B40D0 for ; Tue, 6 Oct 2015 08:13:04 -0700 (PDT) Received: by obcgx8 with SMTP id gx8so156329765obc.3 for ; Tue, 06 Oct 2015 08:13:03 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20120113; h=mime-version:date:message-id:subject:from:to:content-type; bh=/CSsrmuXdhtQa3cAgqIjcU/IOT3skE3BQ3vugY1uueU=; b=0D+vDnqqZMf8kOkgDyTUrSuKOtdyuUtddDzbaSCbSuwzT1qCi4JPV8yHtnhYey8cde euBTa9cVHDKK1qnv8O4m8HQQ+UD4RJ1Fr/MFa5xy8NZkpjmrO/DzlZYPGQNd3+D7JQr3 aanJlW1fr2R0S3CfMV6yRnYPMm1PWDIM+q9244YQvoYSywdVp59ikd6MHHoVBH/su6Zg iB1B0hf3pIj0wncK0W7uRcopxSkrpse6AVZEdkc+ZAly9aG0axBHHUo6M+mVI+KtzegM s/ajODs3vqCZCecyecsUFxj5YVeBhAFSTqtzIo0f4YhDW/O5LdX/ENUY69RojKHN/1Wj s7zQ== MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Received: by 10.60.128.130 with SMTP id no2mr22077097oeb.47.1444144383446; Tue, 06 Oct 2015 08:13:03 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.202.213.83 with HTTP; Tue, 6 Oct 2015 08:13:03 -0700 (PDT) Date: Tue, 6 Oct 2015 18:13:03 +0300 Message-ID: From: "Ali C. Begen" To: payload@ietf.org Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Archived-At: Subject: [payload] Adoption of draft-demjanenko-payload-melpe X-BeenThere: payload@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: Audio/Video Transport Payloads working group discussion list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 06 Oct 2015 15:13:05 -0000 Hi everyone, In the last meeting the room has shown support for the adoption of draft-demjanenko-payload-melpe. https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-demjanenko-payload-melpe/ Please send an email to the list if you are supportive or not supportive of this work (for whatever reason) by Oct. 20th. If we hear no objections, we will adopt this work before the next meeting. Thanks. -acbegen (as a co-chair) From nobody Thu Oct 8 11:28:43 2015 Return-Path: X-Original-To: payload@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: payload@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id D83951A1A91 for ; Thu, 8 Oct 2015 11:28:41 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -95.209 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-95.209 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_50=0.8, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, FM_FORGED_GMAIL=0.622, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, HTTPS_HTTP_MISMATCH=1.989, J_CHICKENPOX_34=0.6, SPF_NEUTRAL=0.779, USER_IN_WHITELIST=-100] autolearn=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id kf3RQ0q3xAra for ; Thu, 8 Oct 2015 11:28:38 -0700 (PDT) Received: from resqmta-po-08v.sys.comcast.net (resqmta-po-08v.sys.comcast.net [IPv6:2001:558:fe16:19:96:114:154:167]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher DHE-RSA-AES128-SHA (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id B13C31A03A9 for ; Thu, 8 Oct 2015 11:28:38 -0700 (PDT) Received: from resomta-po-01v.sys.comcast.net ([96.114.154.225]) by resqmta-po-08v.sys.comcast.net with comcast id SiUZ1r0094s37d401iUeFq; Thu, 08 Oct 2015 18:28:38 +0000 Received: from mail-ig0-f173.google.com ([209.85.213.173]) by resomta-po-01v.sys.comcast.net with comcast id SiSe1r0023l225501iSeAe; Thu, 08 Oct 2015 18:26:38 +0000 Received: by igcrk20 with SMTP id rk20so19313250igc.1 for ; Thu, 08 Oct 2015 11:26:38 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Received: by 10.50.65.100 with SMTP id w4mr5453640igs.61.1444328798042; Thu, 08 Oct 2015 11:26:38 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.79.100.7 with HTTP; Thu, 8 Oct 2015 11:26:37 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: References:

Date: Thu, 8 Oct 2015 12:26:37 -0600 Message-ID: From: Kevin Gross To: Thomas Edwards Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=047d7b3a94cef259ec05219c00cd DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=comcast.net; s=q20140121; t=1444328918; bh=GdIG/Tf+e1ycrW4nidRg1YgI9UqjnjcaqrXX3vTEGx0=; h=Received:Received:Received:MIME-Version:Received:Date:Message-ID: Subject:From:To:Content-Type; b=bNX6/vNtVjrDW2DIdLdybZAoqL10GCgm6+wwu7uBh/TQFjSCBdtWxPsdrjPHpRUXj HJQq820FSJkabeFzgfLiH8H1WJqmC7l96wy0Isy5h1LgmBokpLSZIxpj1dRtJzWYP7 H0nhgppA3l1wvOqf4P7UL2LA217ejhshPyFK0JLFXtBvBxNqgCMJy3xDWNvcNhpB7u tqh3Edn3qEH64MLN8fqwvAgAdDWq7MBXoEE237MVZnIRDhJ3rzyrSOXQav+Xvi4Try iyU+OgI+Zpx2Pqb1cMJf869fy8c2rJKoHL7KFfQ0bjmDAjQi2zXtYX/1wUN9xI0oub 90YxWnSjpK6Sg== Archived-At: Cc: "payload@ietf.org" Subject: Re: [payload] I-D Action: draft-ietf-payload-rtp-ancillary-01.txt X-BeenThere: payload@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: Audio/Video Transport Payloads working group discussion list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 08 Oct 2015 18:28:42 -0000 --047d7b3a94cef259ec05219c00cd Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Thanks Thomas. Proposed resolutions look acceptable to me. Kevin Gross - AVA Networks On Wed, Sep 30, 2015 at 5:16 PM, Thomas Edwards wrote: > I believe that Kevin Gross pointed out some important issues > in draft-ietf-payload-rtp-ancillary-01, and I would like to ask the Paylo= ad > WG to allow me to update the I-D to draft-ietf-rtp-ancillary-02. A draft > is attached. > > Also addition to some off-list comments: > > To "An ANC packet with the header fields Line_Number of 0x7FF and > Horizontal_Offset of 0xFFF SHALL be considered to be carried without any > specific location within the field or frame" add *", and in such a case > the "C" field will be ignored."* > > My replies to Kevin inline starting with "TE>". > > -Thomas Edwards > FOX > > From: Kevin Gross > Date: Thursday, June 4, 2015 at 3:13 PM > To: FNG > Cc: "payload@ietf.org" > Subject: Re: [payload] I-D Action: draft-ietf-payload-rtp-ancillary-01.tx= t > > Thomas, > > I have some additional comments on your draft: > > > Abstract: > > Consider providing a definition for "KLV" early on > > *TE> I will get rid of "KLV Metadata", as it is a very rare use case.* > > 1 Introduction: > > Jargon attenuation > s/carriage of metadata within the bit stream multiplex of a Serial > Digital Interface/carriage of metadata within the bit stream of a Serial > Digital Interface > > Payload does not describe > s/This RTP payload supports ANC data packets/This memo describes an RTP > payload which supports ANC data packets > > Quotes unnecessary > s/restored to their "original" locations/restored to their original > locations > > Other wording improvements > s/This payload could be used by itself, or used along with a range of RTP > video formats. In particular, it has been specifically designed so that > it could be used/This ANC payload can be used by itself, or used along > with a range of RTP video formats. In particular, it has been designed so > that it could be used > > *TE> Wording improvements accepted* > > 2.1 Payload Header Definitions > > Is there a justification you can provide for including Extended Header > Sequence Number. Video payload protocols potentially require this because > there may be many packets per video frame. I don't think that's the case > for ANC. What is the maximum realistic rate for ANC data? > > *TE> It depends on what type of ANC data is mapped. There could easily b= e > several hundred ANC packets per frame if embedded audio is carried in RTP= . > There can be as much as 563 Mbps of ANC space in 720p50 HD-SDI. I have h= ad > many inconclusive discussions with experts on this, and my intuition is > that too many bits is better than too few bits when it comes to potential > sequence number over-run, so I would prefer to leave the extended sequenc= e > number in.* > > We need some additional information about the ANC format to complete this > draft. How do we find the beginning of each ANC packet in the payload? > Where in an ANC packet is the Ancillary Data Flag (ADF)? > > *TE> The Ancillary Data Flag is not present in the payload because it is = a > property of an SDI interface involved, and has no bearing on the ANC pack= et > data. In all digital component interfaces I am aware of it is 000h 3FFh > 3FFh. I will add "It should be noted that the ancillary data flag (ADF) > word is not specifically carried in this RTP payload. The ADF may be > specified in a document defining an interconnecting digital video > interface, otherwise a default ADF is specified by SMPTE ST 292-1 [ST292]= ."* > > Where do DID values come from? > > *TE> "The fields DID, SDID, Data_Count, User_Data_Words, and Checksum_Wor= d > represent the 10-bit words carried in the ANC data packet, as per SMPTE S= T > 291"* > > Based on what I've cleaned from the draft, it seems that we don't need > both Length and ANC_Count. It seems like either would be sufficient to > determine where payload data stops. You could possibly do without either > and use the Length field in the UDP header to know when data ends. > > *TE> I prefer the RTP ANC payload parser to know how large the ANC data > packet payload is without having to refer to higher level network > information. Hopefully that is not an RTP anti-pattern. ANC_Count does > not directly tell you a size, only the number of ANC packets present, whi= ch > would have to be iterated through as ANC packets may have different > lengths.* > > It is not clear to me what happens at (next ANC data packet). Is there > another DID here or do we get a new Line_Number or something else? We nee= d > a better description of what an ANC data packet is. > > *TE> I thought I was being clear with the statement "And for each ANC dat= a > packet in the payload, the following header fields MUST be present:" but > indeed I am less clear regarding DID,SDID,etc. I will add "**For each > ANC data packet in the payload, **immediately after the ANC data packet > header fields, **the following data fields **MUST be present, with the > fields DID, SDID, Data_Count, **User_Data_Words, and Checksum_Word > representing the 10-bit words **carried in the ANC data packet, as per > SMPTE ST 291-1:"* > > There's something off in Checksum_Word description, "The lower 8 bits of > Checksum_Word, corresponding to bits b8 (MSB) through b0 (LSB) of the > 10-bit data count word". b8 through b0 is 9 bits. > > *TE> Agreed. I will replace with description "It consists of 10 bits, > where bits b8 (MSB) through b0 (LSB) define the checksum value and bit b9 > is the inverse (logical NOT) of bit b8." * > > > Kevin Gross - AVA Networks > > On Wed, Jun 3, 2015 at 6:50 PM, Thomas Edwards > wrote: > >> Based on input from SMPTE members, the following changes were made in th= e >> new draft-ietf-payload-rtp-ancillary: >> >> 1) Made this explicitly clear: >> >> "If more than 255 ANC data packets need to be carried in a field or fram= e, >> additional RTP packets carrying ANC data may be sent with the same RTP >> timestamp but with different sequence numbers." >> >> 2) Added a "don't care" value of 0xFFF to Horizontal_Offset to indicate = if >> the ANC data is carried without any specific location within the line. >> >> 3) Made this explicitly clear: >> >> "An ANC packet with the header fields Line_Number of 0x7FF and >> Horizontal_Offset of 0xFFF SHALL be considered to be carried without any >> specific location within the field or frame." >> >> 4) Made this explicitly clear: >> >> "When reconstructing an SDI signal based on this payload, it is >> important to place ANC packets into the locations indicated by the AN= C >> payload header fields Line_Number and Horizontal_Offset, and also to >> follow the requirements of SMPTE ST 291-1 [ST291] Section 7 "Ancillar= y >> Data Space Formatting (Component or Composite Interface)", which >> include rules on the placement of initial ANC data into allowed space= s >> as well as the contiguity of ANC data packet sequences within those >> spaces in order to assure that the resulting ANC packets in the SDI >> signal are valid." >> >> 5) A more clear example of multiple DID_SDID parameters in SDP. >> >> 6) Minor editorial nits. >> >> If there is any concern with these changes, please let me know! >> >> -Thomas >> >> -- >> Thomas Edwards >> VP Engineering & Development >> FOX Networks Engineering and Operations >> thomas.edwards@fox.com >> Phone: +1.310.369.6696 >> 10201 West Pico Blvd. >> Los Angeles, CA 90035 >> >> _______________________________________________ >> payload mailing list >> payload@ietf.org >> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/payload >> >> > > --047d7b3a94cef259ec05219c00cd Content-Type: text/html; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

Thanks Thomas. Proposed resolutions look acceptable to me.=

Kevin Gross - AVA Networks

On Wed, Sep 30, 2015 at 5:16 PM, Thomas Edwa= rds <Thomas.Edwards@fox.com> wrote:

I believe that Kevin Gross pointed out some important issues in=C2=A0d= raft-ietf-payload-rtp-ancillary-01, and I would like to ask the Payload WG = to allow me to update the I-D to draft-ietf-rtp-ancillary-02.=C2=A0 A draft= is attached.

Also addition to some off-list comments:

To "An ANC packet with the header fields Line_Number of 0x7FF and= Horizontal_Offset of 0xFFF SHALL be considered to be carried without any s= pecific location within the field or frame" add ", and in such a case the "C" field will be ignored."= ;

My replies to Kevin inline starting with "TE>".

-Thomas Edwards

=C2=A0FOX

From: Kevin Gross <kevin.gross@avanw.com>=
Date: Thursday, June 4, 2015 at 3:1= 3 PM
To: FNG <thomas.edwards@fox.com>
Cc: "payload@ietf.org" <payload@ietf.org>
Subject: Re: [payload] I-D Action: = draft-ietf-payload-rtp-ancillary-01.txt

Thomas,

I have some additional comments on your draft:

Abstract:

Consider providing a definition for "KLV" early on

TE>=C2=A0I will get rid of &qu= ot;KLV Metadata", as it is a very rare use case.

1 Introduction:

Jargon attenuation

s/carriage of me= tadata within the bit stream=C2= =A0multiplex=C2=A0of a Serial Digital Interface/carriage of metadata within the bit stream of = a Serial Digital Interface

Payload does not= describe

s/This RTP payload supports AN= C data packets/This=C2=A0mem= o describes an = RTP payload which supports ANC data packets

Quotes unnecessa= ry

s/restored to their "or= iginal" locations/restored to their original= locations

Other wording im= provements

s/This payload could be used b= y itself, or used along with a r= ange of RTP video formats. In particular, it has been specifically d= esigned so that it could be used/This ANC payload can be used by itself, or used along with a r= ange of RTP video formats. In particular, it has been designed so th= at it could be used

TE>= Wording improvements accepted

2.1 Payload Head= er Definitions

Is there a justi= fication you can provide for including Extended Header Sequence Number. Vid= eo payload protocols potentially require this because there may be many pac= kets per video frame. I don't think that's the case for ANC. What is the maximum realistic rate for ANC da= ta?

TE> It depends on what = type of ANC data is mapped.=C2=A0 There could easily be several hundred ANC= packets per frame if embedded audio is carried in RTP.=C2=A0 There can be = as much as 563 Mbps of ANC space in 720p50 HD-SDI.=C2=A0 I have had many inconclusive discussions with experts on this, and my intuit= ion is that too many bits is better than too few bits when it comes to pote= ntial sequence number over-run, so I would prefer to leave the extended seq= uence number in.

We need s= ome additional information about the ANC format to complete this draft. How= do we find the beginning of each ANC packet in the payload? Where in an AN= C packet is the Ancillary Data Flag (ADF)?

TE> The Ancillary Data = Flag is not present in the payload because it is a property of an SDI inter= face involved, and has no bearing on the ANC packet data.=C2=A0 In all digi= tal component interfaces I am aware of it is=C2=A0000h 3FFh 3FFh.=C2=A0 I will add "It should be noted that the ancil= lary data flag (ADF) word is not specifically carried in this RTP payload.= =C2=A0 The ADF may be specified in a document defining an interconnecting d= igital video interface, otherwise a default ADF is specified by SMPTE ST 292-1 [ST292]."

Where do DID values come from?<= /div>

TE> "The fields DID, SDID, Data_Count, User_Data_Words, and Chec= ksum_Word represent the 10-bit words carried in the ANC data packet, as per= SMPTE ST 291"

Based on what I&= #39;ve cleaned from the draft, it seems that we don't need both Length = and ANC_Count. It seems like either would be sufficient to determine where = payload data stops. You could possibly do without either and use the Length field in the UDP header to know when dat= a ends.

TE> I prefer the RTP ANC payload parser to know how large the ANC dat= a packet payload is without having to refer to higher level network informa= tion.=C2=A0 Hopefully that is not an RTP anti-pattern.=C2=A0 ANC_Count does= not directly tell you a size, only the number of ANC packets present, which would have to be iterated through as ANC pac= kets may have different lengths.

It is not= clear to me what happens at (next ANC data packet). Is there another DID h= ere or do we get a new Line_Number or something else? We need a better desc= ription of what an ANC data packet is.

TE> I thought I was being clear with the statement "An= d for each ANC data packet in the payload, the following header fields MUST= be present:" but indeed I am less clear regarding DID,SDID,etc.=C2=A0 I will add "For each ANC data packet in the payload,=C2=A0immediately after the ANC data packet head= er fields,=C2=A0the following =C2=A0data fields=C2=A0MUST be present, with the fields DID, SDID, Data_Count,=C2=A0= User_Data_Words, and Checks= um_Word representing the 10-bit words=C2=A0carried in the ANC data packet, as per SMPTE ST 291-1:"

There'= ;s something off in Checksum_Word description, "The lower 8 bits o= f Checksum_Word, corresponding to bits b8 (MSB) through= b0 (LSB) of the 10-bit data count word". b8 through b0 is 9 bits.

TE> Agreed.=C2=A0 I will replace with description "It consists o= f 10 bits, where bits b8 (MSB) through b0 (LSB) define the checksum value a= nd bit b9 is the inverse (logical NOT) of bit b8."=C2=A0

Kevin Gross - AVA Networks

On Wed, Jun 3, 2015 at 6:50 PM, Thomas Edwards <= span dir=3D"ltr"> <Thomas.Edwa= rds@fox.com> wrote:

Based on input from SMPTE members, the following changes were made in the new draft-ietf-payload-rtp-ancillary:

1) Made this explicitly clear:

"If more than 255 ANC data packets need to be carried in a field or fr= ame,
additional RTP packets carrying ANC data may be sent with the same RTP
timestamp but with different sequence numbers."

2) Added a "don't care" value of 0xFFF to Horizontal_Offset t= o indicate if
the ANC data is carried without any specific location within the line.

3) Made this explicitly clear:

"An ANC packet with the header fields Line_Number of 0x7FF and
Horizontal_Offset of 0xFFF SHALL be considered to be carried without any specific location within the field or frame."

4) Made this explicitly clear:

"When reconstructing an SDI signal based on this payload, it is
important to place ANC packets into the locations indicated by the=C2=A0 = =C2=A0 ANC
payload header fields Line_Number and Horizontal_Offset, and also=C2=A0 =C2= =A0 to
follow the requirements of SMPTE ST 291-1 [ST291] Section 7=C2=A0 =C2=A0 &q= uot;Ancillary
Data Space Formatting (Component or Composite Interface)",=C2=A0 =C2= =A0 which
include rules on the placement of initial ANC data into allowed=C2=A0 =C2= =A0 spaces
as well as the contiguity of ANC data packet sequences within=C2=A0 =C2=A0 = those
spaces in order to assure that the resulting ANC packets in the=C2=A0 =C2= =A0 SDI
signal are valid."

5) A more clear example of multiple DID_SDID parameters in SDP.

6) Minor editorial nits.

If there is any concern with these changes, please let me know!

-Thomas

--
Thomas Edwards
VP Engineering & Development
FOX Networks Engineering and Operations
thomas.edwards@= fox.com
Phone: +1.310.369.6696
10201 West Pico Blvd.
Los Angeles, CA 90035

_______________________________________________
payload mailing list
payload@ietf.org<= br> https://www.ietf.org= /mailman/listinfo/payload

--047d7b3a94cef259ec05219c00cd-- From nobody Wed Oct 14 05:59:12 2015 Return-Path: X-Original-To: payload@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: payload@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 22A2E1A1EF7 for ; Wed, 14 Oct 2015 05:59:12 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -4.211 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-4.211 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_50=0.8, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_HI=-5, SPF_PASS=-0.001, T_RP_MATCHES_RCVD=-0.01] autolearn=ham Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id uYCBPfH09HMa for ; Wed, 14 Oct 2015 05:59:10 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mailout1.thls.bbc.co.uk (mailout1.thls.bbc.co.uk [132.185.240.36]) (using TLSv1 with cipher DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 9300F1A21B0 for ; Wed, 14 Oct 2015 05:59:10 -0700 (PDT) Received: from BGB01XI1001.national.core.bbc.co.uk ([10.184.50.51]) by mailout1.thls.bbc.co.uk (8.14.4/8.14.3) with ESMTP id t9ECwgmO020075 for ; 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DIR:OUT; SFP:1101; SCL:1; SRVR:SN1PR05MB1887; H:SN1PR05MB1885.namprd05.prod.outlook.com; FPR:; SPF:None; PTR:InfoNoRecords; MX:1; A:1; LANG:en; received-spf: None (protection.outlook.com: fox.com does not designate permitted sender hosts) spamdiagnosticoutput: 1:23 spamdiagnosticmetadata: NSPM Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-ID: Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable MIME-Version: 1.0 X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-originalarrivaltime: 14 Oct 2015 22:11:30.5171 (UTC) X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-fromentityheader: Hosted X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-id: de99ade3-81db-4070-ae0d-3c1562041b30 X-MS-Exchange-Transport-CrossTenantHeadersStamped: SN1PR05MB1887 X-Microsoft-Exchange-Diagnostics: 1; SN1PR05MB1982; 2:QynqdUYHnd0ED9qrnQEXwDSPspHHFznIwVSfJVAx65hnZj5TRUxLzepcAlQH/T+P2BBgw3qu3lsjVntY/NPwEojs27StOqULRMzdGjLmClr5q0UY6VAuOhOUBO5psz120vq1YB1T3HwbsRIqC+lXNE39zH6HMnRC8jpLNKZfBkk=; 23:8t3gVT/qLBoJMT3xT+gjY9Pohr3bHWS1vpbx/yxbA0Wf8O2Y4gW39kDMCVVzIGgSx9WM7uFgHCr8/Q398MHxvNIizL4cP2LdfJyWKR/HtQC31yAvMBv1DLU7m5aSVWZNSj0ZTf0r0+LjGmobcnpNqSH703nJPF4hbrQ2sgGUgnwHabb3oqK1hReCBPZr9omM X-OriginatorOrg: fox.com X-Proofpoint-Virus-Version: vendor=fsecure engine=2.50.10432:, , definitions=2015-10-15_01:, , signatures=0 X-Proofpoint-Spam-Details: rule=outbound_notspam policy=outbound score=0 spamscore=0 suspectscore=0 malwarescore=0 phishscore=0 adultscore=0 bulkscore=0 classifier=spam adjust=0 reason=mlx scancount=1 engine=8.0.1-1507310000 definitions=main-1510140272 Archived-At: Subject: Re: [payload] draft-weaver-payload-rtp-vc2hq-00 X-BeenThere: payload@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: Audio/Video Transport Payloads working group discussion list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 14 Oct 2015 22:11:42 -0000 I support the consideration of this I-D by the Payload WG. -Thomas --=20 Thomas Edwards=09 VP Engineering & Development FOX Networks Engineering and Operations thomas.edwards@fox.com Phone: +1.310.369.6696 10201 West Pico Blvd. Los Angeles, CA 90035 On 10/14/15, 5:58 AM, "James Barrett" wrote: >I would like to request that this list consider the draft >draft-weaver-payload-rtp-vc2hq-00 >tf.org_html_draft-2Dweaver-2Dpayload-2Drtp-2Dvc2hq-2D00-20&d=3DBQIGaQ&c=3D= uw6T >Lu4hwhHdiGJOgwcWD4AjKQx6zvFcGEsbfiY9-EI&r=3DlekNOOM5noV61zrPH3rwPyhtNnLLWo= LE >Hgd0quQxly8&m=3D6sUdoc7G_wqxcJpBex0SIXW1uLAPczH9vEr8ds05SWk&s=3DOjwSk-kzcC= LLp3 >vDR11Rm6Vjhq1JrMRNaYkozm9FhEs&e=3D >. Which describes a payload format for >the VC-2 video compression standard's HQ profile (as described in SMPTE >ST 2042-1=20 >.smpte.org_content_978-2D1-2D61482-2D709-2D2_st-2D2042-2D1-2D2012_SEC1.abs >tract-20&d=3DBQIGaQ&c=3Duw6TLu4hwhHdiGJOgwcWD4AjKQx6zvFcGEsbfiY9-EI&r=3Dle= kNOOM5 >noV61zrPH3rwPyhtNnLLWoLEHgd0quQxly8&m=3D6sUdoc7G_wqxcJpBex0SIXW1uLAPczH9vE= r8 >ds05SWk&s=3DBz2iQuWhF8kLzX2-Tk8M1jZjonrQCKgU_LBxg4xx2hg&e=3D >). An >implementation as a plugin for gstreamer is available at >om_bbc_gstrtpvc2-20&d=3DBQIGaQ&c=3Duw6TLu4hwhHdiGJOgwcWD4AjKQx6zvFcGEsbfiY= 9-EI >&r=3DlekNOOM5noV61zrPH3rwPyhtNnLLWoLEHgd0quQxly8&m=3D6sUdoc7G_wqxcJpBex0SI= XW1u >LAPczH9vEr8ds05SWk&s=3DuP4PF-dicxj0Ft8fCIJHdCiOTb6mfA64CwggnaH0BJo&e=3D >. > > > >I have endeavoured to write it according to the guidelines given in >draft-ietf-payload-rtp-howto-14. > >-- > >James P. Weaver (n=E9 Barrett) > >Research Engineer > >BBC R&D North Lab, > >Floor 5 Dock House, MediaCity, > >M50 2LH > >Tel: +44(0)30 3040-9521 > >e-mail: james.barrett@bbc.co.uk > > > > > > > >----------------------------- > >https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=3Dhttp-3A__www.bbc.co.uk&d=3DBQ= IGaQ >&c=3Duw6TLu4hwhHdiGJOgwcWD4AjKQx6zvFcGEsbfiY9-EI&r=3DlekNOOM5noV61zrPH3rwP= yhtN >nLLWoLEHgd0quQxly8&m=3D6sUdoc7G_wqxcJpBex0SIXW1uLAPczH9vEr8ds05SWk&s=3DlO7= itTB >BUTmyy-N1-XUFwkV9PDjUZd3SvQCrMENZyUM&e=3D > >This e-mail (and any attachments) is confidential and > >may contain personal views which are not the views of the BBC unless >specifically stated. > >If you have received it in > >error, please delete it from your system. > >Do not use, copy or disclose the > >information in any way nor act in reliance on it and notify the sender > >immediately. > >Please note that the BBC monitors e-mails > >sent or received. > >Further communication will signify your consent to > >this. > >----------------------------- > >_______________________________________________ >payload mailing list >payload@ietf.org >https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=3Dhttps-3A__www.ietf.org_mailma= n_ >listinfo_payload&d=3DBQIGaQ&c=3Duw6TLu4hwhHdiGJOgwcWD4AjKQx6zvFcGEsbfiY9-E= I&r=3D >lekNOOM5noV61zrPH3rwPyhtNnLLWoLEHgd0quQxly8&m=3D6sUdoc7G_wqxcJpBex0SIXW1uL= AP >czH9vEr8ds05SWk&s=3DjgV0baX9neY19EvEOfkC_19D6QoVPnyhGM7yvkoc3R4&e=3D=20 From nobody Fri Oct 16 09:58:09 2015 Return-Path: X-Original-To: payload@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: payload@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id D64BF1ACD47 for ; Fri, 16 Oct 2015 09:58:07 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.999 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.999 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id Ca0-2jpFdRiX for ; Fri, 16 Oct 2015 09:58:06 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail-wi0-x22d.google.com (mail-wi0-x22d.google.com [IPv6:2a00:1450:400c:c05::22d]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 506CA1AC3F5 for ; Fri, 16 Oct 2015 09:58:06 -0700 (PDT) Received: by wicgb1 with SMTP id gb1so17190006wic.1 for ; Fri, 16 Oct 2015 09:58:05 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20120113; h=from:to:cc:subject:date:message-id:mime-version:content-type :thread-index:content-language; bh=En6xLP1NJuJ2SuLyf7vJ1WGzNMpQ6QTvdwPz4KPjPFg=; b=KamMCl2nJR/X/VlkDw67zheccKti6653CQkBPyaNdF7Y0tk/8rk7wyPzeSnskPC2of e5vvA/eTmPFEqROMElv3nuPfmCNfIwsZP/lzwzr5fN/mI50ems94Bp1f/fkLqRilSa6+ lwcCQsZ4Ma4D1jAWYGdXWU0RpnPluIpWBFaJb0u2O6u+9/4DRhzitoQmZpOX4ZN30Q/a If8W34Rt1yf2uK6rBMM/9ozvTRk/yGrcTak9sYHfMhlhfX7JiEvd8osyAh047v0tYML/ n+CEMh0mqHYTPdOqpZZo1Q/W8num8xK4HMYMWmUJUE6CMhri79k0+NCGIdewSM875Gp4 5PnA== X-Received: by 10.194.6.161 with SMTP id c1mr20667608wja.152.1445014684900; Fri, 16 Oct 2015 09:58:04 -0700 (PDT) Received: from RoniPC (bzq-109-65-15-14.red.bezeqint.net. [109.65.15.14]) by smtp.gmail.com with ESMTPSA id lk5sm3922440wic.0.2015.10.16.09.58.03 (version=TLSv1 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-AES128-SHA bits=128/128); Fri, 16 Oct 2015 09:58:03 -0700 (PDT) From: "Roni Even" To: Date: Fri, 16 Oct 2015 19:58:00 +0300 Message-ID: <070801d10833$d106c090$731441b0$@gmail.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0709_01D1084C.F65705D0" X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook 14.0 Thread-Index: AdD/RHgKqxGfy0O+TvKsjyCzCuLPNw== Content-Language: he Archived-At: Cc: "'Ali C. Begen $abegen$'" Subject: [payload] Requset for agenda time for payload at IETF94 X-BeenThere: payload@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: Audio/Video Transport Payloads working group discussion list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 16 Oct 2015 16:58:08 -0000 This is a multipart message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0709_01D1084C.F65705D0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hi, The agenda of IETF-94 was published. The Payload WG meeting is scheduled as follows: Tuesday, November 3, 2015 17:10-18:40 Room 413 ART Payload Audio/Video Transport Payloads WG Please send the chairs your requests for agenda items. Thanks and Regards, Roni Even Payload co-chair ------=_NextPart_000_0709_01D1084C.F65705D0 Content-Type: text/html; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

Hi,

The agenda = of IETF-94 was published. The Payload WG meeting is scheduled as = follows:

Tuesday, November 3, 2015

17:10-18:40

Room = 413 = ART = = Payload = &= nbsp; Audio/Video Transport Payloads = WG

Please send = the chairs your requests for agenda items.

Thanks and = Regards,

Roni Even

Payload = co-chair

------=_NextPart_000_0709_01D1084C.F65705D0-- From nobody Mon Oct 19 02:28:24 2015 Return-Path: X-Original-To: payload@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: payload@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 246211A87A7 for ; Mon, 19 Oct 2015 02:28:23 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -4.211 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-4.211 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-2.3, SPF_PASS=-0.001, T_RP_MATCHES_RCVD=-0.01] autolearn=ham Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id JSQo8rCs7wzc for ; Mon, 19 Oct 2015 02:28:20 -0700 (PDT) Received: from lhrrgout.huawei.com (lhrrgout.huawei.com [194.213.3.17]) (using TLSv1 with cipher RC4-SHA (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 722C21A87A1 for ; Mon, 19 Oct 2015 02:28:20 -0700 (PDT) Received: from 172.18.7.190 (EHLO lhreml403-hub.china.huawei.com) ([172.18.7.190]) by lhrrg02-dlp.huawei.com (MOS 4.3.7-GA FastPath queued) with ESMTP id BYZ15962; Mon, 19 Oct 2015 09:28:18 +0000 (GMT) Received: from NKGEML406-HUB.china.huawei.com (10.98.56.37) by lhreml403-hub.china.huawei.com (10.201.5.217) with Microsoft SMTP Server (TLS) id 14.3.235.1; Mon, 19 Oct 2015 10:28:18 +0100 Received: from NKGEML501-MBS.china.huawei.com ([169.254.2.75]) by nkgeml406-hub.china.huawei.com ([10.98.56.37]) with mapi id 14.03.0235.001; Mon, 19 Oct 2015 17:28:07 +0800 From: "Huangyihong (Rachel)" To: "payload@ietf.org" Thread-Topic: [payload] FW: New Version Notification for draft-huang-payload-rtp-interleave-01.txt Thread-Index: AQHRCjrVxw7buJl1jE+Pwp9tp7xXj55yYb2A Date: Mon, 19 Oct 2015 09:28:05 +0000 Message-ID: <51E6A56BD6A85142B9D172C87FC3ABBB86441C3F@nkgeml501-mbs.china.huawei.com> Accept-Language: zh-CN, en-US Content-Language: zh-CN X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-originating-ip: [10.136.79.189] Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-CFilter-Loop: Reflected Archived-At: Subject: [payload] FW: New Version Notification for draft-huang-payload-rtp-interleave-01.txt X-BeenThere: payload@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: Audio/Video Transport Payloads working group discussion list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 19 Oct 2015 09:28:23 -0000 RGVhciBhbGwsDQoNCkkgaGF2ZSBzdWJtaXR0ZWQgYSBuZXcgdmVyc2lvbiBvZiBkcmFmdC1odWFu Zy1wYXlsb2FkLWludGVybGVhdmUuIFRoZSBtYWluIGNoYW5nZSBpcyBzb21lIGNsYXJpZmljYXRp b25zIGFuZCBTRFAgY29uc2lkZXJhdGlvbiBwYXJ0cy4gUGxlYXNlIHJlYWQgaXQgYW5kIGRyb3Ag eW91ciBjb21tZW50cyBhbmQgc3VnZ2VzdGlvbnMgZnJlZWx5IElmIHlvdSdyZSBpbnRlcmVzdGVk IGluIHRoaXMgZHJhZnQuIA0KDQpCUiwNClJhY2hlbA0KDQoNCi0tLS0tT3JpZ2luYWwgTWVzc2Fn ZS0tLS0tDQpGcm9tOiBpbnRlcm5ldC1kcmFmdHNAaWV0Zi5vcmcgW21haWx0bzppbnRlcm5ldC1k cmFmdHNAaWV0Zi5vcmddIA0KU2VudDogTW9uZGF5LCBPY3RvYmVyIDE5LCAyMDE1IDI6NTMgUE0N ClRvOiBIdWFuZ3lpaG9uZyAoUmFjaGVsKTsgSHVhbmd5aWhvbmcgKFJhY2hlbCkNClN1YmplY3Q6 IE5ldyBWZXJzaW9uIE5vdGlmaWNhdGlvbiBmb3IgZHJhZnQtaHVhbmctcGF5bG9hZC1ydHAtaW50 ZXJsZWF2ZS0wMS50eHQNCg0KDQpBIG5ldyB2ZXJzaW9uIG9mIEktRCwgZHJhZnQtaHVhbmctcGF5 bG9hZC1ydHAtaW50ZXJsZWF2ZS0wMS50eHQNCmhhcyBiZWVuIHN1Y2Nlc3NmdWxseSBzdWJtaXR0 ZWQgYnkgUmFjaGVsIEh1YW5nIGFuZCBwb3N0ZWQgdG8gdGhlIElFVEYgcmVwb3NpdG9yeS4NCg0K TmFtZToJCWRyYWZ0LWh1YW5nLXBheWxvYWQtcnRwLWludGVybGVhdmUNClJldmlzaW9uOgkwMQ0K VGl0bGU6CQlSVFAgUGF5bG9hZCBGb3JtYXQgZm9yIEludGVybGVhdmVkIFBhY2tldHMNCkRvY3Vt ZW50IGRhdGU6CTIwMTUtMTAtMTkNCkdyb3VwOgkJSW5kaXZpZHVhbCBTdWJtaXNzaW9uDQpQYWdl czoJCTEzDQpVUkw6ICAgICAgICAgICAgaHR0cHM6Ly93d3cuaWV0Zi5vcmcvaW50ZXJuZXQtZHJh ZnRzL2RyYWZ0LWh1YW5nLXBheWxvYWQtcnRwLWludGVybGVhdmUtMDEudHh0DQpTdGF0dXM6ICAg ICAgICAgaHR0cHM6Ly9kYXRhdHJhY2tlci5pZXRmLm9yZy9kb2MvZHJhZnQtaHVhbmctcGF5bG9h ZC1ydHAtaW50ZXJsZWF2ZS8NCkh0bWxpemVkOiAgICAgICBodHRwczovL3Rvb2xzLmlldGYub3Jn L2h0bWwvZHJhZnQtaHVhbmctcGF5bG9hZC1ydHAtaW50ZXJsZWF2ZS0wMQ0KRGlmZjogICAgICAg ICAgIGh0dHBzOi8vd3d3LmlldGYub3JnL3JmY2RpZmY/dXJsMj1kcmFmdC1odWFuZy1wYXlsb2Fk LXJ0cC1pbnRlcmxlYXZlLTAxDQoNCkFic3RyYWN0Og0KICAgVGhpcyBtZW1vIGludHJvZHVjZXMg YSBjb21tb24gUlRQIGVuY2Fwc3VsYXRpb24gZm9yIGludGVybGVhdmVkDQogICBtZWRpYS4gVGhp cyBtZXRob2QgY2FuIGJlIGFwcGxpZWQgdG8gYW55IFJUUCBwYXlsb2FkIGZvcm1hdHMgZm9yIGFu eQ0KICAgYXBwbGljYXRpb25zIHdoZW4gbGF0ZW5jeSBpcyBub3QgYW4gaXNzdWUuDQoNCg0KICAg ICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAg ICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgIA0KDQoNClBsZWFzZSBub3RlIHRoYXQgaXQgbWF5IHRha2Ug YSBjb3VwbGUgb2YgbWludXRlcyBmcm9tIHRoZSB0aW1lIG9mIHN1Ym1pc3Npb24gdW50aWwgdGhl IGh0bWxpemVkIHZlcnNpb24gYW5kIGRpZmYgYXJlIGF2YWlsYWJsZSBhdCB0b29scy5pZXRmLm9y Zy4NCg0KVGhlIElFVEYgU2VjcmV0YXJpYXQNCg0K From nobody Mon Oct 19 04:00:21 2015 Return-Path: X-Original-To: payload@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: payload@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id B77BB1A8948 for ; Mon, 19 Oct 2015 04:00:19 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -0.18 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-0.18 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, FORGED_OUTLOOK_TAGS=0.052, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, HTML_TAG_BALANCE_BODY=1.157, J_CHICKENPOX_35=0.6, SPF_PASS=-0.001, T_HTML_ATTACH=0.01] autolearn=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id aMwaDP_CGnsR for ; Mon, 19 Oct 2015 04:00:18 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail-lf0-x236.google.com (mail-lf0-x236.google.com [IPv6:2a00:1450:4010:c07::236]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 2F07F1A8942 for ; Mon, 19 Oct 2015 04:00:18 -0700 (PDT) Received: by lffy185 with SMTP id y185so109003482lff.2 for ; Mon, 19 Oct 2015 04:00:16 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; 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[79.177.179.59]) by smtp.gmail.com with ESMTPSA id fz1sm14537107wic.8.2015.10.19.04.00.13 (version=TLSv1 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-AES128-SHA bits=128/128); Mon, 19 Oct 2015 04:00:15 -0700 (PDT) From: "Roni Even" To: Date: Mon, 19 Oct 2015 14:00:12 +0300 Message-ID: <087001d10a5d$54e73590$feb5a0b0$@gmail.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0871_01D10A76.7A35F430" X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook 14.0 Thread-Index: AdEKXUAnXp7RQr/YSIWpAPLmTTTWzw== Content-Language: he Archived-At: Subject: [payload] initial agenda for IETF94 X-BeenThere: payload@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: Audio/Video Transport Payloads working group discussion list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 19 Oct 2015 11:00:19 -0000 This is a multipart message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0871_01D10A76.7A35F430 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_001_0872_01D10A76.7A361B40" ------=_NextPart_001_0872_01D10A76.7A361B40 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hi, Please find the initial agenda for IETF94. Let the chairs know if you have other requests Thanks Roni ------=_NextPart_001_0872_01D10A76.7A361B40 Content-Type: text/html; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

Hi,

Please find the = initial agenda for IETF94.

Let the = chairs know if you have other requests

Thanks

Roni =

------=_NextPart_001_0872_01D10A76.7A361B40-- ------=_NextPart_000_0871_01D10A76.7A35F430 Content-Type: text/plain; name="p1510.txt" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Disposition: attachment; filename="p1510.txt" Audio/Video Transport Payoads (Payload) Working Group =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D CHAIRS: Ali Begen Roni Even AGENDA Tuesday, 3 November 2015 at 17:10-18:40 (413) --------------------------------------------- 17:10 Payload Status Update (Chairs, 10) 17:20 RTP Payload Format for Non-Interleaved and Interleaved Parity = FEC(Varun Singh , 20) draft-ietf-payload-flexible-fec-scheme-01 17:40 RTP Payload Format for Interleaved Packets (Rachel Huang, 10) draft-huang-payload-rtp-interleave-01 17:50 End ------=_NextPart_000_0871_01D10A76.7A35F430 Content-Type: text/html; name="p1510.html" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Disposition: attachment; filename="p1510.html" Audio/Video Transport Payoads (Payload) Working Group = Agenda

Audio/Video Transport Payoads (Payload) = Working Group Agenda

Chairs: Ali Begen , Roni Even =

Tuesday, 3 November 2015 at 17:10-18:40 (413)

17:10 Payload Status Update Chairs
17:20 RTP Payload Format for Non-Interleaved and = Interleaved Parity FEC Varun Singh=20
draft-ietf-payload-flexible-fec-scheme-01
17:40 RTP Payload Format for Interleaved Packets Rachel Huang
d= raft-huang-payload-rtp-interleave-01
17:50 End
------=_NextPart_000_0871_01D10A76.7A35F430-- From nobody Mon Oct 19 07:52:54 2015 Return-Path: X-Original-To: payload@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: payload@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3A0551A8A04; Mon, 19 Oct 2015 07:52:53 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.496 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.496 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, IP_NOT_FRIENDLY=0.334, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW=-0.7, RCVD_IN_SORBS_WEB=0.77, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id VxRez3zCqEoj; Mon, 19 Oct 2015 07:52:50 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mx0a-00198e01.pphosted.com (mx0a-00198e01.pphosted.com [67.231.149.202]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 4F8271A92E3; Mon, 19 Oct 2015 07:52:41 -0700 (PDT) Received: from pps.filterd (m0073109.ppops.net [127.0.0.1]) by mx0a-00198e01.pphosted.com (8.15.0.59/8.15.0.59) with SMTP id t9JEib7L003862; Mon, 19 Oct 2015 10:52:39 -0400 Received: from mail.vidyo.com ([162.209.16.214]) by mx0a-00198e01.pphosted.com with ESMTP id 1xenksw1cj-1 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=AES128-SHA bits=128 verify=NOT); Mon, 19 Oct 2015 10:52:38 -0400 Received: from 492132-EXCH1.vidyo.com ([fe80::50:56ff:fe85:4f77]) by 492133-EXCH2.vidyo.com ([fe80::50:56ff:fe85:6b62%13]) with mapi id 14.03.0195.001; Mon, 19 Oct 2015 09:52:37 -0500 From: Jonathan Lennox To: Roni Even Thread-Topic: [payload] initial agenda for IETF94 Thread-Index: AdEKXUAnXp7RQr/YSIWpAPLmTTTWzwASnQSA Date: Mon, 19 Oct 2015 14:52:36 +0000 Message-ID: <5E784CCF-701A-4DA2-A4FC-5EFA1EBF255B@vidyo.com> References: <087001d10a5d$54e73590$feb5a0b0$@gmail.com> In-Reply-To: <087001d10a5d$54e73590$feb5a0b0$@gmail.com> Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-originating-ip: [160.79.219.114] Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="_000_5E784CCF701A4DA2A4FC5EFA1EBF255Bvidyocom_" MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Proofpoint-Virus-Version: vendor=fsecure engine=2.50.10432:5.14.151, 1.0.33, 0.0.0000 definitions=2015-10-19_13:2015-10-15,2015-10-19,1970-01-01 signatures=0 X-Proofpoint-Spam-Details: rule=outbound_notspam policy=outbound score=0 spamscore=0 suspectscore=0 phishscore=0 adultscore=0 bulkscore=0 classifier=spam adjust=0 reason=mlx scancount=1 engine=7.0.1-1508030000 definitions=main-1510190252 Archived-At: Cc: "draft-ietf-payload-vp9@ietf.org" , "payload-chairs@ietf.org" Subject: Re: [payload] initial agenda for IETF94 X-BeenThere: payload@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: Audio/Video Transport Payloads working group discussion list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 19 Oct 2015 14:52:53 -0000 --_000_5E784CCF701A4DA2A4FC5EFA1EBF255Bvidyocom_ Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable We plan to submit an update to the VP9 payload, and it has some substantive= changes because we discovered a hole in the logic in some packet loss patt= erns. 10-15 minutes should be good. Justin will probably present. On Oct 19, 2015, at 7:00 AM, Roni Even > wrote: Hi, Please find the initial agenda for IETF94. Let the chairs know if you have other requests Thanks Roni _______________________________________________ payload mailing list payload@ietf.org https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/payload --_000_5E784CCF701A4DA2A4FC5EFA1EBF255Bvidyocom_ Content-Type: text/html; charset="us-ascii" Content-ID: <55294ED144867F488736013AD38BD1B4@vidyo.com> Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

17:10	Payload Status Update	Chairs
17:20	RTP Payload Format for Non-Interleaved and = Interleaved Parity FEC	Varun Singh=20
	draft-ietf-payload-flexible-fec-scheme-01
17:40	RTP Payload Format for Interleaved Packets	Rachel Huang
	d= raft-huang-payload-rtp-interleave-01
17:50	End

We plan to submit an update to the VP9 payload, and it has = some substantive changes because we discovered a hole in the logic in some = packet loss patterns. 10-15 minutes should be good. Justin will proba= bly present.

On Oct 19, 2015, at 7:00 AM, Roni Even <ron.even.tlv@gmail.com> wrote:<= /div>

Hi,

Please find the initial agenda for IETF94.

Let the chairs know if you have other requests

Thanks

Roni

<p1510.t= xt><p1510.html>______________________________________________= _
payload mailing list
payload@ietf.org
https://www.ietf.or= g/mailman/listinfo/payload

--_000_5E784CCF701A4DA2A4FC5EFA1EBF255Bvidyocom_-- From nobody Mon Oct 19 09:49:45 2015 Return-Path: X-Original-To: payload@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: payload@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id CE9C61A8A7A; Mon, 19 Oct 2015 09:49:43 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.999 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.999 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id nvJxifPt5H3h; Mon, 19 Oct 2015 09:49:41 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail-wi0-x22b.google.com (mail-wi0-x22b.google.com [IPv6:2a00:1450:400c:c05::22b]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 9F2E51A8A7F; Mon, 19 Oct 2015 09:49:39 -0700 (PDT) Received: by wicll6 with SMTP id ll6so14850434wic.1; Mon, 19 Oct 2015 09:49:38 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20120113; h=from:to:cc:references:in-reply-to:subject:date:message-id :mime-version:content-type:thread-index:content-language; bh=r54C8kRSQEma2jOeZYzjskgh0FVRmx3CZdc9LgIGzww=; b=C7reppdMuJEDeYB+LcKDA3B9cbZNUOHlwY3ZMGcIzuX/EK+N14iKRp187hpUryxOFI UMSM7yyzbVMXt/9fY/Hx1epe18LxmeMfPiJAf8BzDRwdK8dzQlDsbpI0uTCAsTnCqxQV mf+41WWNRImXEOVmCJ9AVXIdkZpMDj6mClcEND2/13PIi5du4PSNqwn8lGVrk4Hu2Cft Bbd+emZSNstMUwT0qIUSfQQsN9Z6gkMk6nYfXfR6TDAviGQSo6S1tFBMyOBWuzeIqFUa W1x5K9Q6GS73xkWFh9y5u8gsUL+Ed2GlsF7jfZZAg330ZEmVAxPNAkt/54ZLQ15EvMLx RRzA== X-Received: by 10.194.112.162 with SMTP id ir2mr38364365wjb.40.1445273378204; Mon, 19 Oct 2015 09:49:38 -0700 (PDT) Received: from RoniPC (bzq-79-177-179-59.red.bezeqint.net. [79.177.179.59]) by smtp.gmail.com with ESMTPSA id xt1sm41172195wjb.32.2015.10.19.09.49.36 (version=TLSv1 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-AES128-SHA bits=128/128); Mon, 19 Oct 2015 09:49:37 -0700 (PDT) From: "Roni Even" To: "'Jonathan Lennox'" References: <087001d10a5d$54e73590$feb5a0b0$@gmail.com> <5E784CCF-701A-4DA2-A4FC-5EFA1EBF255B@vidyo.com> In-Reply-To: <5E784CCF-701A-4DA2-A4FC-5EFA1EBF255B@vidyo.com> Date: Mon, 19 Oct 2015 19:49:35 +0300 Message-ID: <08b901d10a8e$23800000$6a800000$@gmail.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_08BA_01D10AA7.48D01E30" X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook 14.0 Thread-Index: AQIstw2o8/szHOgYDdfjzmLqkSOBQAHeSQn0nay71sA= Content-Language: he Archived-At: Cc: draft-ietf-payload-vp9@ietf.org, "'payload-chairs@ietf.org'" Subject: Re: [payload] initial agenda for IETF94 X-BeenThere: payload@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: Audio/Video Transport Payloads working group discussion list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 19 Oct 2015 16:49:44 -0000 This is a multipart message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_08BA_01D10AA7.48D01E30 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit OK Roni From: Jonathan Lennox [mailto:jonathan@vidyo.com] Sent: Monday, October 19, 2015 5:53 PM To: Roni Even Cc: payload-chairs@ietf.org; draft-ietf-payload-vp9@ietf.org Subject: Re: [payload] initial agenda for IETF94 We plan to submit an update to the VP9 payload, and it has some substantive changes because we discovered a hole in the logic in some packet loss patterns. 10-15 minutes should be good. Justin will probably present. On Oct 19, 2015, at 7:00 AM, Roni Even wrote: Hi, Please find the initial agenda for IETF94. Let the chairs know if you have other requests Thanks Roni _______________________________________________ payload mailing list payload@ietf.org https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/payload ------=_NextPart_000_08BA_01D10AA7.48D01E30 Content-Type: text/html; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

Roni

From:= = Jonathan Lennox [mailto:jonathan@vidyo.com]
Sent: Monday, = October 19, 2015 5:53 PM
To: Roni Even
Cc: = payload-chairs@ietf.org; = draft-ietf-payload-vp9@ietf.org
Subject: Re: [payload] initial = agenda for IETF94

We plan = to submit an update to the VP9 payload, and it has some substantive = changes because we discovered a hole in the logic in some packet loss = patterns. 10-15 minutes should be good. Justin will probably = present.

On Oct 19, 2015, at 7:00 AM, Roni Even <ron.even.tlv@gmail.com> = wrote:

Hi,
Please = find the initial agenda for IETF94.
Let the = chairs know if you have other = requests
Thanks=
Roni
=

<p1510.txt><p1510.html>__________= _____________________________________
payload mailing = list
payload@ietf.org
https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/payload

------=_NextPart_000_08BA_01D10AA7.48D01E30-- From nobody Mon Oct 19 11:28:18 2015 Return-Path: X-Original-To: payload@ietf.org Delivered-To: payload@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from ietfa.amsl.com (localhost [IPv6:::1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9C61D1ACD95; Mon, 19 Oct 2015 11:28:16 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: internet-drafts@ietf.org To: X-Test-IDTracker: no X-IETF-IDTracker: 6.6.1 Auto-Submitted: auto-generated Precedence: bulk Message-ID: <20151019182816.18689.31190.idtracker@ietfa.amsl.com> Date: Mon, 19 Oct 2015 11:28:16 -0700 Archived-At: Cc: payload@ietf.org Subject: [payload] I-D Action: draft-ietf-payload-flexible-fec-scheme-01.txt X-BeenThere: payload@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 List-Id: Audio/Video Transport Payloads working group discussion list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 19 Oct 2015 18:28:16 -0000 A New Internet-Draft is available from the on-line Internet-Drafts directories. This draft is a work item of the Audio/Video Transport Payloads Working Group of the IETF. Title : RTP Payload Format for Flexible Forward Error Correction (FEC) Authors : Varun Singh Ali Begen Mo Zanaty Giridhar Mandyam Filename : draft-ietf-payload-flexible-fec-scheme-01.txt Pages : 35 Date : 2015-10-19 Abstract: This document defines new RTP payload formats for the Forward Error Correction (FEC) packets that are generated by the non-interleaved and interleaved parity codes from a source media encapsulated in RTP. These parity codes are systematic codes, where a number of repair symbols are generated from a set of source symbols. These repair symbols are sent in a repair flow separate from the source flow that carries the source symbols. The non-interleaved and interleaved parity codes offer a good protection against random and bursty packet losses, respectively, at a cost of decent complexity. The RTP payload formats that are defined in this document address the scalability issues experienced with the earlier specifications including RFC 2733, RFC 5109 and SMPTE 2022-1, and offer several improvements. Due to these changes, the new payload formats are not backward compatible with the earlier specifications, but endpoints that do not implement the scheme can still work by simply ignoring the FEC packets. The IETF datatracker status page for this draft is: https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-payload-flexible-fec-scheme/ There's also a htmlized version available at: https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-payload-flexible-fec-scheme-01 A diff from the previous version is available at: https://www.ietf.org/rfcdiff?url2=draft-ietf-payload-flexible-fec-scheme-01 Please note that it may take a couple of minutes from the time of submission until the htmlized version and diff are available at tools.ietf.org. Internet-Drafts are also available by anonymous FTP at: ftp://ftp.ietf.org/internet-drafts/ From nobody Mon Oct 19 14:07:00 2015 Return-Path: X-Original-To: payload@ietf.org Delivered-To: payload@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from ietfa.amsl.com (localhost [IPv6:::1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id AC73C1ACED4; Mon, 19 Oct 2015 14:06:48 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: internet-drafts@ietf.org To: X-Test-IDTracker: no X-IETF-IDTracker: 6.6.1 Auto-Submitted: auto-generated Precedence: bulk Message-ID: <20151019210648.8205.73446.idtracker@ietfa.amsl.com> Date: Mon, 19 Oct 2015 14:06:48 -0700 Archived-At: Cc: payload@ietf.org Subject: [payload] I-D Action: draft-ietf-payload-vp9-01.txt X-BeenThere: payload@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 List-Id: Audio/Video Transport Payloads working group discussion list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 19 Oct 2015 21:06:48 -0000 A New Internet-Draft is available from the on-line Internet-Drafts directories. This draft is a work item of the Audio/Video Transport Payloads Working Group of the IETF. Title : RTP Payload Format for VP9 Video Authors : Justin Uberti Stefan Holmer Magnus Flodman Jonathan Lennox Danny Hong Filename : draft-ietf-payload-vp9-01.txt Pages : 21 Date : 2015-10-19 Abstract: This memo describes an RTP payload format for the VP9 video codec. The payload format has wide applicability, as it supports applications from low bit-rate peer-to-peer usage, to high bit-rate video conferences. It includes provisions for temporal and spatial scalability. The IETF datatracker status page for this draft is: https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-payload-vp9/ There's also a htmlized version available at: https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-payload-vp9-01 A diff from the previous version is available at: https://www.ietf.org/rfcdiff?url2=draft-ietf-payload-vp9-01 Please note that it may take a couple of minutes from the time of submission until the htmlized version and diff are available at tools.ietf.org. Internet-Drafts are also available by anonymous FTP at: ftp://ftp.ietf.org/internet-drafts/ From nobody Mon Oct 19 14:10:03 2015 Return-Path: X-Original-To: payload@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: payload@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 021451B2CA7 for ; Mon, 19 Oct 2015 14:09:51 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.497 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.497 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, IP_NOT_FRIENDLY=0.334, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW=-0.7, RCVD_IN_SORBS_WEB=0.77, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 3QtI1wBJVTuZ for ; Mon, 19 Oct 2015 14:09:50 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mx0b-00198e01.pphosted.com (mx0b-00198e01.pphosted.com [67.231.157.197]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 190BC1ACE55 for ; Mon, 19 Oct 2015 14:09:47 -0700 (PDT) Received: from pps.filterd (m0073110.ppops.net [127.0.0.1]) by mx0b-00198e01.pphosted.com (8.15.0.59/8.15.0.59) with SMTP id t9JL9k5p029242 for ; Mon, 19 Oct 2015 17:09:46 -0400 Received: from mail.vidyo.com ([162.209.16.214]) by mx0b-00198e01.pphosted.com with ESMTP id 1xenmhw77b-1 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=AES128-SHA bits=128 verify=NOT) for ; Mon, 19 Oct 2015 17:09:46 -0400 Received: from 492132-EXCH1.vidyo.com ([fe80::50:56ff:fe85:4f77]) by 492133-EXCH2.vidyo.com ([fe80::50:56ff:fe85:6b62%13]) with mapi id 14.03.0195.001; Mon, 19 Oct 2015 16:09:45 -0500 From: Jonathan Lennox To: "payload@ietf.org" Thread-Topic: [payload] I-D Action: draft-ietf-payload-vp9-01.txt Thread-Index: AQHRCrIjOebzkXdoaE+t7ElEPxy/Bp5zo2QA Date: Mon, 19 Oct 2015 21:09:45 +0000 Message-ID: <210FD3DB-403B-4665-BE3A-A200E3D0F77E@vidyo.com> References: <20151019210648.8205.73446.idtracker@ietfa.amsl.com> In-Reply-To: <20151019210648.8205.73446.idtracker@ietfa.amsl.com> Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-originating-ip: [160.79.219.114] Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-ID: <95EA0FC45E6F854689313C1F4E674C1A@vidyo.com> Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Proofpoint-Virus-Version: vendor=fsecure engine=2.50.10432:5.14.151, 1.0.33, 0.0.0000 definitions=2015-10-19_16:2015-10-15,2015-10-19,1970-01-01 signatures=0 X-Proofpoint-Spam-Details: rule=outbound_notspam policy=outbound score=0 spamscore=0 suspectscore=0 phishscore=0 adultscore=0 bulkscore=0 classifier=spam adjust=0 reason=mlx scancount=1 engine=7.0.1-1508030000 definitions=main-1510190364 Archived-At: Subject: Re: [payload] I-D Action: draft-ietf-payload-vp9-01.txt X-BeenThere: payload@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: Audio/Video Transport Payloads working group discussion list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 19 Oct 2015 21:09:51 -0000 SW4gYWRkaXRpb24gdG8gc29tZSBlZGl0b3JpYWwgaW1wcm92ZW1lbnRzLCB0aGlzIHZlcnNpb24g aGFzIHNvbWUgY2hhbmdlcyB0byBiZXR0ZXIgaGFuZGxlIG5vbi1mbGV4aWJsZSBtb2RlIGluIHRo ZSBwcmVzZW5jZSBvZiBwYWNrZXQgbG9zcy4NCg0KVGhlIGZpcnN0IGJ5dGUgb2Yg4oCcTGF5ZXIg aW5kaWNlc+KAnSBmaWVsZCBoYXMgYmVlbiBjaGFuZ2VkIHRvIGV4cGxpY2l0bHkgaG9sZCB0aGUg dGVtcG9yYWwgbGF5ZXIgSUQgKOKAnFTigJ0pIGFuZCB0ZW1wb3JhbCB1cCBzd2l0Y2hpbmcgZmxh ZyAo4oCcVeKAnSkgZm9yIGV2ZXJ5IHBhY2tldC4NClRoaXMgd2F5LCBwYWNrZXRzIG9mIGJvdGgg ZmxleGlibGUgYW5kIG5vbi1mbGV4aWJsZSBtb2RlcyBjYXJyeSB0aGUgc2FtZSBmaXJzdCBieXRl IGluZm9ybWF0aW9uIG9mIOKAnExheWVyIGluZGljZXPigJ0uIA0KV2l0aCB0aGlzIGNoYW5nZSBp biB0aGUgbm9uLWZsZXhpYmxlIG1vZGUsIHRoZSBvbGQgR09GX0lEWCBoYXMgYmVlbiByZW1vdmVk IGFuZCB0aGUgR09GIGluZm9ybWF0aW9uIHNwZWNpZmllZCBpbiB0aGUgU1MgZGF0YSBpcyBpbmRl eGVkIHVzaW5nIFBJQ1RVUkUgSUQuDQpJbiByZWxhdGlvbiB0byB0aGUgYWJvdmUgY2hhbmdlLCB0 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ZHJhZnRzLw0KPiANCj4gX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19f X19fX18NCj4gcGF5bG9hZCBtYWlsaW5nIGxpc3QNCj4gcGF5bG9hZEBpZXRmLm9yZw0KPiBodHRw czovL3d3dy5pZXRmLm9yZy9tYWlsbWFuL2xpc3RpbmZvL3BheWxvYWQNCj4gDQoNCg== From nobody Mon Oct 19 14:40:45 2015 Return-Path: X-Original-To: payload@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: payload@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id E49811B2D29 for ; Mon, 19 Oct 2015 14:40:43 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -0.066 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-0.066 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, GB_SUMOF=1, IP_NOT_FRIENDLY=0.334, J_CHICKENPOX_15=0.6, J_CHICKENPOX_34=0.6, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW=-0.7] autolearn=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id ktA0LmpAn-Jg for ; Mon, 19 Oct 2015 14:40:38 -0700 (PDT) Received: from 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SN1PR05MB1885.namprd05.prod.outlook.com ([10.162.131.147]) by SN1PR05MB1885.namprd05.prod.outlook.com ([10.162.131.147]) with mapi id 15.01.0300.010; Mon, 19 Oct 2015 21:40:12 +0000 From: Thomas Edwards To: "payload@ietf.org" Thread-Topic: [payload] I-D Action: draft-ietf-payload-rtp-ancillary-01.txt Thread-Index: AQHQnmBo2igjoW8PJEmqD+1jgv1L1g== Date: Mon, 19 Oct 2015 21:40:12 +0000 Message-ID: References:

In-Reply-To: Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: yes X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: user-agent: Microsoft-MacOutlook/14.4.5.141003 authentication-results: spf=none (sender IP is ) smtp.mailfrom=Thomas.Edwards@fox.com; x-ms-exchange-messagesentrepresentingtype: 1 x-originating-ip: [216.205.246.231] x-microsoft-exchange-diagnostics: 1; SN1PR05MB1885; 5:nYdNin90P6Za/sC7dlOJYULJ9bPb9DmnKnuVjqA6qMNX6h1+htmcU2+mk6aQ+sx3K0RDfRD/XHgkRC9Q2N9EMmD85KeEPoSZAebKDcR8Kx3D+O5f/DcL3j/5yZNaZ81LlO1T/ufBQiHO6HptT1rAUg==; 24:K1/wpfU8YMEpmJrKEfWo6BxTHfHE+59wOcbF1CxEac+gn+/JBiNhO2iW1XTMjT9hHIyD8qdchvqxX0Mppt/R1DsU9+wSwduQUgegkK3lGEE=; 20:1OL+DZmdyJG0k/M25j9J1TRmxFH1mNXkOODuUvyFpjyxf6czUm+DACLghJ6yHVhlQ755PWgr2K2BQ4W4S7RGKg== x-microsoft-antispam: UriScan:;BCL:0;PCL:0;RULEID:;SRVR:SN1PR05MB1885; x-microsoft-antispam-prvs: x-exchange-antispam-report-test: UriScan:(177823376758907)(202767206196957); x-exchange-antispam-report-cfa-test: BCL:0; PCL:0; RULEID:(601004)(2401047)(8121501046)(5005006)(520078)(3002001); SRVR:SN1PR05MB1885; BCL:0; PCL:0; RULEID:; SRVR:SN1PR05MB1885; x-forefront-prvs: 07349BFAD2 x-forefront-antispam-report: SFV:NSPM; SFS:(10009020)(6009001)(479174004)(24454002)(199003)(377454003)(189002)(76176999)(54356999)(40100003)(230783001)(2501003)(66066001)(92566002)(99286002)(122556002)(83506001)(101416001)(189998001)(64706001)(5890100001)(5004730100002)(87936001)(5007970100001)(5008740100001)(11100500001)(106116001)(2900100001)(81156007)(4001350100001)(5002640100001)(2950100001)(106356001)(19580405001)(19580395003)(102836002)(15975445007)(93886004)(50986999)(77096005)(450100001)(97736004)(110136002)(107886002)(5001960100002)(2351001)(86362001)(575784001)(10400500002)(105586002)(46102003)(99936001)(36756003); DIR:OUT; SFP:1101; SCL:1; SRVR:SN1PR05MB1885; H:SN1PR05MB1885.namprd05.prod.outlook.com; FPR:; SPF:None; PTR:InfoNoRecords; A:1; MX:1; LANG:en; received-spf: None (protection.outlook.com: fox.com does not designate permitted sender hosts) spamdiagnosticoutput: 1:23 spamdiagnosticmetadata: NSPM Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="_002_D24AA9EF3C215thomasedwardsfoxcom_" MIME-Version: 1.0 X-OriginatorOrg: fox.com X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-originalarrivaltime: 19 Oct 2015 21:40:12.6210 (UTC) X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-fromentityheader: Hosted X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-id: de99ade3-81db-4070-ae0d-3c1562041b30 X-MS-Exchange-Transport-CrossTenantHeadersStamped: SN1PR05MB1885 X-Proofpoint-Virus-Version: vendor=fsecure engine=2.50.10432:, , definitions=2015-10-19_16:, , signatures=0 X-Proofpoint-Spam-Details: rule=outbound_notspam policy=outbound score=0 spamscore=0 suspectscore=0 malwarescore=0 phishscore=0 adultscore=0 bulkscore=0 classifier=spam adjust=0 reason=mlx scancount=1 engine=8.0.1-1507310000 definitions=main-1510190374 Archived-At: Subject: Re: [payload] I-D Action: draft-ietf-payload-rtp-ancillary-01.txt X-BeenThere: payload@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: Audio/Video Transport Payloads working group discussion list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 19 Oct 2015 21:40:44 -0000 --_002_D24AA9EF3C215thomasedwardsfoxcom_ Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-ID: <1BA94DD2832F3144B15AA9930B2F3F1C@namprd05.prod.outlook.com> Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Regarding draft-ietf-payload-rtp-ancillary-01, I will change "will be ignored" to "SHALL be ignored" regarding ANC packets to be carried without any specific location within the field or frame as Ali suggests, and will update to draft-ietf-payload-rtp-ancillary-02 (given the cut-off deadline for IETF94 today). I also received an off-list comment regarding the marker bit. Implementers of the I-D have told me that it is often difficult to know which ANC packet is truly the "last one" in the frame due to their sparseness. To truly use the marker bit to indicate the last ANC packet of a frame would mean a very long latency between the time an ANC packet comes in and the time the frame comes to an end. To mitigate this, the off-list commenter suggested that they would prefer the marker bit to indicate the first RTP packet of a frame, rather than the last. Other solutions include not using a marker bit for this data type, or requiring an empty RTP packet at the end of the frame with the market bit set, however the commenter did not prefer those solutions. =20 I recognize that using the marker bit to indicate the first ANC packet in a frame is a bit unusual for RTP, but I believe that it is the best solution to the problem. If there is no objection, I could move forward with this marker bit definition and update to draft-ietf-payload-rtp-ancillary-03, a draft of which is attached. -Thomas --=20 Thomas Edwards=09 VP Engineering & Development FOX Networks Engineering and Operations thomas.edwards@fox.com Phone: +1.310.369.6696 10201 West Pico Blvd. Los Angeles, CA 90035 On 10/5/15, 2:48 AM, "Ali C. Begen" wrote: >Hi Thomas > >the chances look good to me, but rather than saying "will be ignored", >you should probably say "SHALL be ignored". > >-acbegen > >On Thu, Oct 1, 2015 at 2:16 AM, Thomas Edwards >wrote: >> I believe that Kevin Gross pointed out some important issues in >> draft-ietf-payload-rtp-ancillary-01, and I would like to ask the >>Payload WG >> to allow me to update the I-D to draft-ietf-rtp-ancillary-02. A draft >>is >> attached. >> >> Also addition to some off-list comments: >> >> To "An ANC packet with the header fields Line_Number of 0x7FF and >> Horizontal_Offset of 0xFFF SHALL be considered to be carried without any >> specific location within the field or frame" add ", and in such a case >>the >> "C" field will be ignored." >> >> My replies to Kevin inline starting with "TE>". >> >> -Thomas Edwards >> FOX >> >> From: Kevin Gross >> Date: Thursday, June 4, 2015 at 3:13 PM >> To: FNG >> Cc: "payload@ietf.org" >> Subject: Re: [payload] I-D Action: >>draft-ietf-payload-rtp-ancillary-01.txt >> >> Thomas, >> >> I have some additional comments on your draft: >> >> >> Abstract: >> >> Consider providing a definition for "KLV" early on >> >> TE> I will get rid of "KLV Metadata", as it is a very rare use case. >> >> 1 Introduction: >> >> Jargon attenuation >> s/carriage of metadata within the bit stream multiplex of a Serial >>Digital >> Interface/carriage of metadata within the bit stream of a Serial Digital >> Interface >> >> Payload does not describe >> s/This RTP payload supports ANC data packets/This memo describes an RTP >> payload which supports ANC data packets >> >> Quotes unnecessary >> s/restored to their "original" locations/restored to their original >> locations >> >> Other wording improvements >> s/This payload could be used by itself, or used along with a range of >>RTP >> video formats. In particular, it has been specifically designed so that >>it >> could be used/This ANC payload can be used by itself, or used along >>with a >> range of RTP video formats. In particular, it has been designed so that >>it >> could be used >> >> TE> Wording improvements accepted >> >> 2.1 Payload Header Definitions >> >> Is there a justification you can provide for including Extended Header >> Sequence Number. Video payload protocols potentially require this >>because >> there may be many packets per video frame. I don't think that's the >>case for >> ANC. What is the maximum realistic rate for ANC data? >> >> TE> It depends on what type of ANC data is mapped. There could easily >>be >> several hundred ANC packets per frame if embedded audio is carried in >>RTP. >> There can be as much as 563 Mbps of ANC space in 720p50 HD-SDI. I have >>had >> many inconclusive discussions with experts on this, and my intuition is >>that >> too many bits is better than too few bits when it comes to potential >> sequence number over-run, so I would prefer to leave the extended >>sequence >> number in. >> >> We need some additional information about the ANC format to complete >>this >> draft. How do we find the beginning of each ANC packet in the payload? >>Where >> in an ANC packet is the Ancillary Data Flag (ADF)? >> >> TE> The Ancillary Data Flag is not present in the payload because it is >>a >> property of an SDI interface involved, and has no bearing on the ANC >>packet >> data. In all digital component interfaces I am aware of it is 000h 3FFh >> 3FFh. I will add "It should be noted that the ancillary data flag (ADF) >> word is not specifically carried in this RTP payload. The ADF may be >> specified in a document defining an interconnecting digital video >>interface, >> otherwise a default ADF is specified by SMPTE ST 292-1 [ST292]." >> >> Where do DID values come from? >> >> TE> "The fields DID, SDID, Data_Count, User_Data_Words, and >>Checksum_Word >> represent the 10-bit words carried in the ANC data packet, as per SMPTE >>ST >> 291" >> >> Based on what I've cleaned from the draft, it seems that we don't need >>both >> Length and ANC_Count. It seems like either would be sufficient to >>determine >> where payload data stops. You could possibly do without either and use >>the >> Length field in the UDP header to know when data ends. >> >> TE> I prefer the RTP ANC payload parser to know how large the ANC data >> packet payload is without having to refer to higher level network >> information. Hopefully that is not an RTP anti-pattern. ANC_Count >>does not >> directly tell you a size, only the number of ANC packets present, which >> would have to be iterated through as ANC packets may have different >>lengths. >> >> It is not clear to me what happens at (next ANC data packet). Is there >> another DID here or do we get a new Line_Number or something else? We >>need a >> better description of what an ANC data packet is. >> >> TE> I thought I was being clear with the statement "And for each ANC >>data >> packet in the payload, the following header fields MUST be present:" but >> indeed I am less clear regarding DID,SDID,etc. I will add "For each ANC >> data packet in the payload, immediately after the ANC data packet header >> fields, the following data fields MUST be present, with the fields DID, >> SDID, Data_Count, User_Data_Words, and Checksum_Word representing the >>10-bit >> words carried in the ANC data packet, as per SMPTE ST 291-1:" >> >> There's something off in Checksum_Word description, "The lower 8 bits of >> Checksum_Word, corresponding to bits b8 (MSB) through b0 (LSB) of the >>10-bit >> data count word". b8 through b0 is 9 bits. >> >> TE> Agreed. I will replace with description "It consists of 10 bits, >>where >> bits b8 (MSB) through b0 (LSB) define the checksum value and bit b9 is >>the >> inverse (logical NOT) of bit b8." >> >> >> Kevin Gross - AVA Networks >> >> On Wed, Jun 3, 2015 at 6:50 PM, Thomas Edwards >> wrote: >>> >>> Based on input from SMPTE members, the following changes were made in >>>the >>> new draft-ietf-payload-rtp-ancillary: >>> >>> 1) Made this explicitly clear: >>> >>> "If more than 255 ANC data packets need to be carried in a field or >>>frame, >>> additional RTP packets carrying ANC data may be sent with the same RTP >>> timestamp but with different sequence numbers." >>> >>> 2) Added a "don't care" value of 0xFFF to Horizontal_Offset to >>>indicate if >>> the ANC data is carried without any specific location within the line. >>> >>> 3) Made this explicitly clear: >>> >>> "An ANC packet with the header fields Line_Number of 0x7FF and >>> Horizontal_Offset of 0xFFF SHALL be considered to be carried without >>>any >>> specific location within the field or frame." >>> >>> 4) Made this explicitly clear: >>> >>> "When reconstructing an SDI signal based on this payload, it is >>> important to place ANC packets into the locations indicated by the >>>ANC >>> payload header fields Line_Number and Horizontal_Offset, and also to >>> follow the requirements of SMPTE ST 291-1 [ST291] Section 7 >>>"Ancillary >>> Data Space Formatting (Component or Composite Interface)", which >>> include rules on the placement of initial ANC data into allowed >>>spaces >>> as well as the contiguity of ANC data packet sequences within those >>> spaces in order to assure that the resulting ANC packets in the SDI >>> signal are valid." >>> >>> 5) A more clear example of multiple DID_SDID parameters in SDP. >>> >>> 6) Minor editorial nits. >>> >>> If there is any concern with these changes, please let me know! >>> >>> -Thomas >>> >>> -- >>> Thomas Edwards >>> VP Engineering & Development >>> FOX Networks Engineering and Operations >>> thomas.edwards@fox.com >>> Phone: +1.310.369.6696 >>> 10201 West Pico Blvd. >>> Los Angeles, CA 90035 >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> payload mailing list >>> payload@ietf.org >>>=20 >>>https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=3Dhttps-3A__www.ietf.org_mail= ma >>>n_listinfo_payload&d=3DBQIBaQ&c=3Duw6TLu4hwhHdiGJOgwcWD4AjKQx6zvFcGEsbfi= Y9-E >>>I&r=3DlekNOOM5noV61zrPH3rwPyhtNnLLWoLEHgd0quQxly8&m=3D-iAfjzMHWUFUJ75wLZ= 6BbA >>>JMCDbZCAol_GFLrIMW0Ms&s=3DsZRCBbfY7k2eTlyjr78YZv4nsTxCNTtBcyFFlSAlnck&e= =3D >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> payload mailing list >> payload@ietf.org >>=20 >>https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=3Dhttps-3A__www.ietf.org_mailm= an >>_listinfo_payload&d=3DBQIBaQ&c=3Duw6TLu4hwhHdiGJOgwcWD4AjKQx6zvFcGEsbfiY9= -EI& >>r=3DlekNOOM5noV61zrPH3rwPyhtNnLLWoLEHgd0quQxly8&m=3D-iAfjzMHWUFUJ75wLZ6Bb= AJMC >>DbZCAol_GFLrIMW0Ms&s=3DsZRCBbfY7k2eTlyjr78YZv4nsTxCNTtBcyFFlSAlnck&e=3D >> 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payload@ietf.org Delivered-To: payload@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from ietfa.amsl.com (localhost [IPv6:::1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2D4731ACE45; Mon, 19 Oct 2015 14:42:58 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: internet-drafts@ietf.org To: X-Test-IDTracker: no X-IETF-IDTracker: 6.6.1 Auto-Submitted: auto-generated Precedence: bulk Message-ID: <20151019214258.21497.77959.idtracker@ietfa.amsl.com> Date: Mon, 19 Oct 2015 14:42:58 -0700 Archived-At: Cc: payload@ietf.org Subject: [payload] I-D Action: draft-ietf-payload-rtp-ancillary-02.txt X-BeenThere: payload@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 List-Id: Audio/Video Transport Payloads working group discussion list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 19 Oct 2015 21:42:58 -0000 A New Internet-Draft is available from the on-line Internet-Drafts directories. This draft is a work item of the Audio/Video Transport Payloads Working Group of the IETF. Title : RTP Payload for SMPTE ST 291 Ancillary Data Author : Thomas G. Edwards Filename : draft-ietf-payload-rtp-ancillary-02.txt Pages : 13 Date : 2015-10-19 Abstract: This memo describes an RTP Payload format for SMPTE Ancillary data, as defined by SMPTE ST 291-1. SMPTE Ancillary data is generally used along with professional video formats to carry a range of ancillary data types, including time code, Closed Captioning, and the Active Format Description (AFD). The IETF datatracker status page for this draft is: https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-payload-rtp-ancillary/ There's also a htmlized version available at: https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-payload-rtp-ancillary-02 A diff from the previous version is available at: https://www.ietf.org/rfcdiff?url2=draft-ietf-payload-rtp-ancillary-02 Please note that it may take a couple of minutes from the time of submission until the htmlized version and diff are available at tools.ietf.org. Internet-Drafts are also available by anonymous FTP at: ftp://ftp.ietf.org/internet-drafts/ From nobody Tue Oct 20 00:16:19 2015 Return-Path: X-Original-To: payload@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: payload@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id BCD6D1ACD53 for ; Tue, 20 Oct 2015 00:16:18 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 0_UImtHqPLhR for ; Tue, 20 Oct 2015 00:16:17 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail-oi0-x236.google.com (mail-oi0-x236.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:4003:c06::236]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 3708D1ACD01 for ; Tue, 20 Oct 2015 00:16:17 -0700 (PDT) Received: by oiao187 with SMTP id o187so4859640oia.3 for ; Tue, 20 Oct 2015 00:16:16 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20120113; h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:date:message-id:subject:from:to :cc:content-type:content-transfer-encoding; bh=pN6/J4bP8BK4bXMpk8OkE97/Q8h3SlLwG5TSnABgAL0=; b=QKws5uJNboKPxFDTKoHwcYVIuAoUvYab9ODcJxtyJ7UZQAyF4LV2OkQPZa4knOUWq/ L8+TR0HZKrXZjEksGuELe8Nw3CwQ52W1u8VJlGJSOVwgic7htLYQapqPSZWUfJtXZLUm EX15u22N0/UFmxS8tt0+hzYHQcNMVuDrp4THjgP0emVradlDvWEBiCptw+4q68gGYKap WaPfLdXli5r3PdTBdvPUUQVsg9Zgz1Dfo3lqkluqjvnVze8VbvGEoH4VqtlWMmjOnSKA dM1A478Y0DbSrkBW470NqLjD1rZOQqFQPb4JqwdlPTEzFRqutPkom6uKMjPkPQgdX2pg Pm3w== MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Received: by 10.202.188.197 with SMTP id m188mr863835oif.70.1445325376575; Tue, 20 Oct 2015 00:16:16 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.202.175.150 with HTTP; Tue, 20 Oct 2015 00:16:16 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: References: Date: Tue, 20 Oct 2015 10:16:16 +0300 Message-ID: From: "Ali C. Begen" To: "Lee, John" Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Archived-At: Cc: "payload@ietf.org" Subject: Re: [payload] [SPAM] Adoption of draft-demjanenko-payload-melpe X-BeenThere: payload@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: Audio/Video Transport Payloads working group discussion list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 20 Oct 2015 07:16:18 -0000 Thanks. We only received approvals and no objections. So, authors, please go ahead and submit the WG version of the draft. Thanks. -acbegen On Wed, Oct 7, 2015 at 10:35 PM, Lee, John wrote: > Ali, et al. > We have reviewed the latest draft and support moving forward with adoptio= n. > > Thanks, > John > ________________________________________ > From: payload [payload-bounces@ietf.org] on behalf of Ali C. Begen [acbeg= en@gmail.com] > Sent: Tuesday, October 6, 2015 10:13 AM > To: payload@ietf.org > Subject: [SPAM] [payload] Adoption of draft-demjanenko-payload-melpe > > Hi everyone, > > In the last meeting the room has shown support for the adoption of > draft-demjanenko-payload-melpe. > https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-demjanenko-payload-melpe/ > > Please send an email to the list if you are supportive or not > supportive of this work (for whatever reason) by Oct. 20th. If we hear > no objections, we will adopt this work before the next meeting. > > Thanks. > -acbegen (as a co-chair) > > _______________________________________________ > payload mailing list > payload@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/payload > > ________________________________ > > The information contained in this message, and any attachments, may conta= in privileged and/or proprietary information that is intended solely for th= e person or entity to which it is addressed. Moreover, it may contain expor= t restricted technical data controlled by Export Administration Regulations= (EAR) or the International Traffic in Arms Regulations (ITAR). Any review,= retransmission, dissemination, or re-export to foreign or domestic entitie= s by anyone other than the intended recipient in accordance with EAR and/or= ITAR regulations is prohibited. From nobody Tue Oct 20 07:37:32 2015 Return-Path: X-Original-To: payload@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: payload@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 08AD31A1B71 for ; Tue, 20 Oct 2015 07:37:31 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -0.18 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-0.18 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, FORGED_OUTLOOK_TAGS=0.052, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, HTML_TAG_BALANCE_BODY=1.157, J_CHICKENPOX_35=0.6, SPF_PASS=-0.001, T_HTML_ATTACH=0.01] autolearn=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id OyfGTE5fX23Z for ; Tue, 20 Oct 2015 07:37:30 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail-wi0-x235.google.com (mail-wi0-x235.google.com [IPv6:2a00:1450:400c:c05::235]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 3E73A1A6FF1 for ; Tue, 20 Oct 2015 07:36:48 -0700 (PDT) Received: by wikq8 with SMTP id q8so49630392wik.1 for ; Tue, 20 Oct 2015 07:36:46 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20120113; h=from:to:cc:subject:date:message-id:mime-version:content-type :thread-index:content-language; bh=J/6ChiRdSAlAVyUMuaRp57XgYBzPe13VjIuPc1gZRaM=; b=GKPOwXyK9lRleaM0L8+U08Y15wahWMHSEncjr70z+5L6VEo3xSNQJKr0iAiV/Cr3y1 dxVSLyd0au398GypjtYvmjYEKzYjIlQwrccKrY2KELCoK9/WUab6DFa6jcV7fdMBDZfL KASqzLzQ+PN6IW2ZCVRmNMJbrqWO+VkjXgjZRZHSPXmfVotZb1TpW3kb/XOKO2oaGEOU sJWbgOVtp5bgGqX2FTM8VKrs0MkAjzLKGPhSwg3fG7IOuhgjTSpZgkC630i1vdc7gz+l UH2nX71DAWPcBIuW+RAgdEkzN2oyiITpckYdYRuEDO+3Zl1fO9GrCDxuGZE7V8fp+Wuo DrYg== X-Received: by 10.180.188.235 with SMTP id gd11mr5139484wic.84.1445351806521; Tue, 20 Oct 2015 07:36:46 -0700 (PDT) Received: from RoniPC (bzq-79-177-179-59.red.bezeqint.net. [79.177.179.59]) by smtp.gmail.com with ESMTPSA id az6sm19627849wib.12.2015.10.20.07.36.45 (version=TLSv1 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-AES128-SHA bits=128/128); Tue, 20 Oct 2015 07:36:45 -0700 (PDT) From: "Roni Even" To: Date: Tue, 20 Oct 2015 17:36:42 +0300 Message-ID: <09b101d10b44$be4d8c90$3ae8a5b0$@gmail.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_09B2_01D10B5D.E39C4B30" X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook 14.0 Thread-Index: AdELRLv74yyu0KXSRq+lDYzMxfrAEg== Content-Language: he Archived-At: Subject: [payload] initial agenda for IETF94 -update X-BeenThere: payload@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: Audio/Video Transport Payloads working group discussion list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 20 Oct 2015 14:37:31 -0000 This is a multipart message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_09B2_01D10B5D.E39C4B30 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_001_09B3_01D10B5D.E39C4B30" ------=_NextPart_001_09B3_01D10B5D.E39C4B30 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hi, Please find the initial agenda for IETF94. Let the chairs know if you have other requests Thanks Roni ------=_NextPart_001_09B3_01D10B5D.E39C4B30 Content-Type: text/html; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

Hi,

Please find the = initial agenda for IETF94.

Let the = chairs know if you have other requests

Thanks

Roni =

------=_NextPart_001_09B3_01D10B5D.E39C4B30-- ------=_NextPart_000_09B2_01D10B5D.E39C4B30 Content-Type: text/plain; name="p1510.txt" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Disposition: attachment; filename="p1510.txt" Audio/Video Transport Payoads (Payload) Working Group =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D CHAIRS: Ali Begen Roni Even AGENDA Tuesday, 3 November 2015 at 17:10-18:40 (413) --------------------------------------------- 17:10 Payload Status Update (Chairs, 10) 17:20 RTP Payload Format for Non-Interleaved and Interleaved Parity = FEC(Varun Singh , 20) draft-ietf-payload-flexible-fec-scheme-01 17:40 RTP Payload Format for VP9 Video (Justin Uberti, 15) draft-ietf-payload-vp9-00 17:55 RTP Payload Format for Interleaved Packets (Rachel Huang, 15) draft-huang-payload-rtp-interleave-01 18:10 End ------=_NextPart_000_09B2_01D10B5D.E39C4B30 Content-Type: text/html; name="p1510.html" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Disposition: attachment; filename="p1510.html" Audio/Video Transport Payoads (Payload) Working Group = Agenda

Audio/Video Transport Payoads (Payload) = Working Group Agenda

Chairs: Ali Begen , Roni Even =

Tuesday, 3 November 2015 at 17:10-18:40 (413)

17:10 Payload Status Update Chairs
17:20 RTP Payload Format for Non-Interleaved and = Interleaved Parity FEC Varun Singh=20
draft-ietf-payload-flexible-fec-scheme-01
17:40 RTP Payload Format for VP9 Video Justin Uberti
draft-ietf-pa= yload-vp9-00
17:55 RTP Payload Format for Interleaved Packets Rachel Huang
d= raft-huang-payload-rtp-interleave-01
18:10 End
------=_NextPart_000_09B2_01D10B5D.E39C4B30-- From nobody Wed Oct 21 03:08:25 2015 Return-Path: X-Original-To: payload@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: payload@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0CE2B1A1B8A for ; Wed, 21 Oct 2015 03:08:24 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.4 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.4 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, J_CHICKENPOX_34=0.6, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id bTBE7hewq5qa for ; Wed, 21 Oct 2015 03:08:21 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail-ob0-x235.google.com (mail-ob0-x235.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:4003:c01::235]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 9D1A71A1B85 for ; Wed, 21 Oct 2015 03:08:21 -0700 (PDT) Received: by obcqt19 with SMTP id qt19so36638218obc.3 for ; Wed, 21 Oct 2015 03:08:21 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20120113; h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:date:message-id:subject:from:to :cc:content-type; bh=NIen6wEHrKFkfAYDjlGjayg0RWSGHOtEI/pYiczorGY=; b=Ammw9BYbZr12x7TWlje5CZvoRkua3Q3eA4WXjVxHz2y6hYu59f85dteslM/xIRZEfz Z4No1brGcE+B/s7vkFc0IIuB6+0KnNeFDYwuUQ7fiFXE1Gr7/EUYXWmVpYxd04i0IYcZ hXT7uIpr8BlCkFs09HKrq9M8ztFa3CRKY+Jw7+fPZ2JebFx5BwSvclzS8NZatnBw0QeM E8F4HGB/iZiiRwE3ZHkmOjsWzYupUc2MFaXV33MivBMlBVtPskumh9EGPBozCpUhFKtp r0SnU/SAU7WAHo5myNPkTAayplF5WJDS6UYM9oqLqtRc1yDUf5Jd39NuOypuEkZ+1Y9v PePQ== MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Received: by 10.60.118.162 with SMTP id kn2mr5258617oeb.80.1445422100943; Wed, 21 Oct 2015 03:08:20 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.202.175.150 with HTTP; Wed, 21 Oct 2015 03:08:20 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: References: Date: Wed, 21 Oct 2015 13:08:20 +0300 Message-ID: From: "Ali C. Begen" To: Thomas Edwards Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Archived-At: Cc: "payload@ietf.org" Subject: Re: [payload] I-D Action: draft-ietf-payload-rtp-ancillary-01.txt X-BeenThere: payload@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: Audio/Video Transport Payloads working group discussion list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 21 Oct 2015 10:08:24 -0000 Hi Thomas I agree with using the market bit to indicate the first ANC packet in a frame. As long as the payload definition is clear, I dont see a problem with that. -acbegen On Tue, Oct 20, 2015 at 12:40 AM, Thomas Edwards wrote: > Regarding draft-ietf-payload-rtp-ancillary-01, I will change "will be > ignored" to "SHALL be ignored" regarding ANC packets to be carried without > any > specific location within the field or frame as Ali suggests, and will > update to draft-ietf-payload-rtp-ancillary-02 (given the cut-off deadline > for IETF94 today). > > I also received an off-list comment regarding the marker bit. > Implementers of the I-D have told me that it is often difficult to know > which ANC packet is truly the "last one" in the frame due to their > sparseness. To truly use the marker bit to indicate the last ANC packet > of a frame would mean a very long latency between the time an ANC packet > comes in and the time the frame comes to an end. > > To mitigate this, the off-list commenter suggested that they would prefer > the marker bit to indicate the first RTP packet of a frame, rather than > the last. Other solutions include not using a marker bit for this data > type, or requiring an empty RTP packet at the end of the frame with the > market bit set, however the commenter did not prefer those solutions. > > I recognize that using the marker bit to indicate the first ANC packet in > a frame is a bit unusual for RTP, but I believe that it is the best > solution to the problem. > > If there is no objection, I could move forward with this marker bit > definition and update to draft-ietf-payload-rtp-ancillary-03, a draft of > which is attached. > > -Thomas > > -- > Thomas Edwards > VP Engineering & Development > FOX Networks Engineering and Operations > thomas.edwards@fox.com > Phone: +1.310.369.6696 > 10201 West Pico Blvd. > Los Angeles, CA 90035 > > > > > > > On 10/5/15, 2:48 AM, "Ali C. Begen" wrote: > >>Hi Thomas >> >>the chances look good to me, but rather than saying "will be ignored", >>you should probably say "SHALL be ignored". >> >>-acbegen >> >>On Thu, Oct 1, 2015 at 2:16 AM, Thomas Edwards >>wrote: >>> I believe that Kevin Gross pointed out some important issues in >>> draft-ietf-payload-rtp-ancillary-01, and I would like to ask the >>>Payload WG >>> to allow me to update the I-D to draft-ietf-rtp-ancillary-02. A draft >>>is >>> attached. >>> >>> Also addition to some off-list comments: >>> >>> To "An ANC packet with the header fields Line_Number of 0x7FF and >>> Horizontal_Offset of 0xFFF SHALL be considered to be carried without any >>> specific location within the field or frame" add ", and in such a case >>>the >>> "C" field will be ignored." >>> >>> My replies to Kevin inline starting with "TE>". >>> >>> -Thomas Edwards >>> FOX >>> >>> From: Kevin Gross >>> Date: Thursday, June 4, 2015 at 3:13 PM >>> To: FNG >>> Cc: "payload@ietf.org" >>> Subject: Re: [payload] I-D Action: >>>draft-ietf-payload-rtp-ancillary-01.txt >>> >>> Thomas, >>> >>> I have some additional comments on your draft: >>> >>> >>> Abstract: >>> >>> Consider providing a definition for "KLV" early on >>> >>> TE> I will get rid of "KLV Metadata", as it is a very rare use case. >>> >>> 1 Introduction: >>> >>> Jargon attenuation >>> s/carriage of metadata within the bit stream multiplex of a Serial >>>Digital >>> Interface/carriage of metadata within the bit stream of a Serial Digital >>> Interface >>> >>> Payload does not describe >>> s/This RTP payload supports ANC data packets/This memo describes an RTP >>> payload which supports ANC data packets >>> >>> Quotes unnecessary >>> s/restored to their "original" locations/restored to their original >>> locations >>> >>> Other wording improvements >>> s/This payload could be used by itself, or used along with a range of >>>RTP >>> video formats. In particular, it has been specifically designed so that >>>it >>> could be used/This ANC payload can be used by itself, or used along >>>with a >>> range of RTP video formats. In particular, it has been designed so that >>>it >>> could be used >>> >>> TE> Wording improvements accepted >>> >>> 2.1 Payload Header Definitions >>> >>> Is there a justification you can provide for including Extended Header >>> Sequence Number. Video payload protocols potentially require this >>>because >>> there may be many packets per video frame. I don't think that's the >>>case for >>> ANC. What is the maximum realistic rate for ANC data? >>> >>> TE> It depends on what type of ANC data is mapped. There could easily >>>be >>> several hundred ANC packets per frame if embedded audio is carried in >>>RTP. >>> There can be as much as 563 Mbps of ANC space in 720p50 HD-SDI. I have >>>had >>> many inconclusive discussions with experts on this, and my intuition is >>>that >>> too many bits is better than too few bits when it comes to potential >>> sequence number over-run, so I would prefer to leave the extended >>>sequence >>> number in. >>> >>> We need some additional information about the ANC format to complete >>>this >>> draft. How do we find the beginning of each ANC packet in the payload? >>>Where >>> in an ANC packet is the Ancillary Data Flag (ADF)? >>> >>> TE> The Ancillary Data Flag is not present in the payload because it is >>>a >>> property of an SDI interface involved, and has no bearing on the ANC >>>packet >>> data. In all digital component interfaces I am aware of it is 000h 3FFh >>> 3FFh. I will add "It should be noted that the ancillary data flag (ADF) >>> word is not specifically carried in this RTP payload. The ADF may be >>> specified in a document defining an interconnecting digital video >>>interface, >>> otherwise a default ADF is specified by SMPTE ST 292-1 [ST292]." >>> >>> Where do DID values come from? >>> >>> TE> "The fields DID, SDID, Data_Count, User_Data_Words, and >>>Checksum_Word >>> represent the 10-bit words carried in the ANC data packet, as per SMPTE >>>ST >>> 291" >>> >>> Based on what I've cleaned from the draft, it seems that we don't need >>>both >>> Length and ANC_Count. It seems like either would be sufficient to >>>determine >>> where payload data stops. You could possibly do without either and use >>>the >>> Length field in the UDP header to know when data ends. >>> >>> TE> I prefer the RTP ANC payload parser to know how large the ANC data >>> packet payload is without having to refer to higher level network >>> information. Hopefully that is not an RTP anti-pattern. ANC_Count >>>does not >>> directly tell you a size, only the number of ANC packets present, which >>> would have to be iterated through as ANC packets may have different >>>lengths. >>> >>> It is not clear to me what happens at (next ANC data packet). Is there >>> another DID here or do we get a new Line_Number or something else? We >>>need a >>> better description of what an ANC data packet is. >>> >>> TE> I thought I was being clear with the statement "And for each ANC >>>data >>> packet in the payload, the following header fields MUST be present:" but >>> indeed I am less clear regarding DID,SDID,etc. I will add "For each ANC >>> data packet in the payload, immediately after the ANC data packet header >>> fields, the following data fields MUST be present, with the fields DID, >>> SDID, Data_Count, User_Data_Words, and Checksum_Word representing the >>>10-bit >>> words carried in the ANC data packet, as per SMPTE ST 291-1:" >>> >>> There's something off in Checksum_Word description, "The lower 8 bits of >>> Checksum_Word, corresponding to bits b8 (MSB) through b0 (LSB) of the >>>10-bit >>> data count word". b8 through b0 is 9 bits. >>> >>> TE> Agreed. I will replace with description "It consists of 10 bits, >>>where >>> bits b8 (MSB) through b0 (LSB) define the checksum value and bit b9 is >>>the >>> inverse (logical NOT) of bit b8." >>> >>> >>> Kevin Gross - AVA Networks >>> >>> On Wed, Jun 3, 2015 at 6:50 PM, Thomas Edwards >>> wrote: >>>> >>>> Based on input from SMPTE members, the following changes were made in >>>>the >>>> new draft-ietf-payload-rtp-ancillary: >>>> >>>> 1) Made this explicitly clear: >>>> >>>> "If more than 255 ANC data packets need to be carried in a field or >>>>frame, >>>> additional RTP packets carrying ANC data may be sent with the same RTP >>>> timestamp but with different sequence numbers." >>>> >>>> 2) Added a "don't care" value of 0xFFF to Horizontal_Offset to >>>>indicate if >>>> the ANC data is carried without any specific location within the line. >>>> >>>> 3) Made this explicitly clear: >>>> >>>> "An ANC packet with the header fields Line_Number of 0x7FF and >>>> Horizontal_Offset of 0xFFF SHALL be considered to be carried without >>>>any >>>> specific location within the field or frame." >>>> >>>> 4) Made this explicitly clear: >>>> >>>> "When reconstructing an SDI signal based on this payload, it is >>>> important to place ANC packets into the locations indicated by the >>>>ANC >>>> payload header fields Line_Number and Horizontal_Offset, and also to >>>> follow the requirements of SMPTE ST 291-1 [ST291] Section 7 >>>>"Ancillary >>>> Data Space Formatting (Component or Composite Interface)", which >>>> include rules on the placement of initial ANC data into allowed >>>>spaces >>>> as well as the contiguity of ANC data packet sequences within those >>>> spaces in order to assure that the resulting ANC packets in the SDI >>>> signal are valid." >>>> >>>> 5) A more clear example of multiple DID_SDID parameters in SDP. >>>> >>>> 6) Minor editorial nits. >>>> >>>> If there is any concern with these changes, please let me know! >>>> >>>> -Thomas >>>> >>>> -- >>>> Thomas Edwards >>>> VP Engineering & Development >>>> FOX Networks Engineering and Operations >>>> thomas.edwards@fox.com >>>> Phone: +1.310.369.6696 >>>> 10201 West Pico Blvd. >>>> Los Angeles, CA 90035 >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> payload mailing list >>>> payload@ietf.org >>>> >>>>https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__www.ietf.org_mailma >>>>n_listinfo_payload&d=BQIBaQ&c=uw6TLu4hwhHdiGJOgwcWD4AjKQx6zvFcGEsbfiY9-E >>>>I&r=lekNOOM5noV61zrPH3rwPyhtNnLLWoLEHgd0quQxly8&m=-iAfjzMHWUFUJ75wLZ6BbA >>>>JMCDbZCAol_GFLrIMW0Ms&s=sZRCBbfY7k2eTlyjr78YZv4nsTxCNTtBcyFFlSAlnck&e= >>> >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> payload mailing list >>> payload@ietf.org >>> >>>https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__www.ietf.org_mailman >>>_listinfo_payload&d=BQIBaQ&c=uw6TLu4hwhHdiGJOgwcWD4AjKQx6zvFcGEsbfiY9-EI& >>>r=lekNOOM5noV61zrPH3rwPyhtNnLLWoLEHgd0quQxly8&m=-iAfjzMHWUFUJ75wLZ6BbAJMC >>>DbZCAol_GFLrIMW0Ms&s=sZRCBbfY7k2eTlyjr78YZv4nsTxCNTtBcyFFlSAlnck&e= >>> > > > _______________________________________________ > payload mailing list > payload@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/payload >