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T7bwKT5I/8Er1rX4OrOTHrbNPmiR2yI0eGMAUtZceo3oH+YVSPjSE+zlBV71A4E10OKuLmeF59mJT0LpTXBTDUOK/ZXf9sgajAw64Ihr+IYTpFBp4W5GapvYTfmzhMzlTnIFCiT1PbWcOOiRKMP5+D0DF1tb9r1w1xYTWirKGFy7oSI5/Tephh6b0/KsBuYsmWc2bP9cJcv+E0ybSeUEIaVlbwmIMO2flGQJ0SitZDzSsp9IWn6JXgUkjH/k+FTq9a6GFXYd16cNaCHeMh7/ORtxa1kOYUvFa0/YdpAJSMPED9vmhRYVVsA0Fie7EHWM spamdiagnosticoutput: 1:99 spamdiagnosticmetadata: NSPM Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="_000_8D9B78D299154BE6B27A340CD9CB1695foxegcom_" MIME-Version: 1.0 X-OriginatorOrg: fox.com X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-Network-Message-Id: c5704f27-bcf2-43cf-93d3-08d671009563 X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-originalarrivaltime: 02 Jan 2019 22:21:03.8622 (UTC) X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-fromentityheader: Hosted X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-id: de99ade3-81db-4070-ae0d-3c1562041b30 X-MS-Exchange-Transport-CrossTenantHeadersStamped: BYAPR05MB4247 X-Proofpoint-Virus-Version: vendor=fsecure engine=2.50.10434:, , definitions=2019-01-02_08:, , signatures=0 X-Proofpoint-Spam-Details: 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header.d=networked-media.20150623.gappssmtp.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id xYEZfZ9Yf4Vh for ; Thu, 3 Jan 2019 02:45:03 -0800 (PST) Received: from mail-wr1-x42d.google.com (mail-wr1-x42d.google.com [IPv6:2a00:1450:4864:20::42d]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 28C35127B4C for ; Thu, 3 Jan 2019 02:45:03 -0800 (PST) Received: by mail-wr1-x42d.google.com with SMTP id c14so33186967wrr.0 for ; Thu, 03 Jan 2019 02:45:03 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=networked-media.20150623.gappssmtp.com; s=20150623; h=mime-version:subject:from:in-reply-to:date:cc :content-transfer-encoding:message-id:references:to; bh=JjkvhB5/FU2Aipb+VQ0qZxdL71lgZQW8UzTxU9PE/Pw=; b=i5kTu2wSaJsixLYRhTfG9s8ANrJNihlffG66yI3VmACuBRynhF8eEp4hYn2IyCOsEJ 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X-Google-Smtp-Source: ALg8bN4syNtQHtWCUcQIC8JUaUB4YGYav5MtRyEt/ReELylomWFh7yPRpx8rJp4dmeyUBJ8MgNXeAg== X-Received: by 2002:adf:eec9:: with SMTP id a9mr39721470wrp.242.1546512301367; Thu, 03 Jan 2019 02:45:01 -0800 (PST) Received: from [192.168.1.157] ([85.105.47.236]) by smtp.gmail.com with ESMTPSA id a12sm46473033wro.18.2019.01.03.02.44.59 (version=TLS1_2 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 bits=128/128); Thu, 03 Jan 2019 02:45:00 -0800 (PST) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 12.2 \(3445.102.3\)) From: "Ali C. Begen" In-Reply-To: <8D9B78D2-9915-4BE6-B27A-340CD9CB1695@foxeg.com> Date: Thu, 3 Jan 2019 13:44:54 +0300 Cc: "payload@ietf.org" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Message-Id: <80288A98-08D0-4D30-B77F-4B5C9BE50EE8@networked.media> References: <8D9B78D2-9915-4BE6-B27A-340CD9CB1695@foxeg.com> To: Thomas Edwards X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.3445.102.3) Archived-At: Subject: Re: [payload] potential errata for RFC 8331 X-BeenThere: payload@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: Audio/Video Transport Payloads working group discussion list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 03 Jan 2019 10:45:06 -0000 Well, we can make that clarification. Please submit it. > On Jan 3, 2019, at 1:21 AM, Thomas Edwards = wrote: >=20 > It was pointed out to me that in RFC 8331 =E2=80=9CRTP Payload for = Society of Motion Picture and > Television Engineers (SMPTE) ST 291-1 Ancillary Data=E2=80=9D it = states in Section 2.1 regarding > the field =E2=80=9CF=E2=80=9D bits: > =20 > =E2=80=9CThe value 0b01 is not valid. Receivers SHOULD ignore an ANC = data packet with an F field > value of 0b01 and SHOULD process any other ANC data packets with valid = F field values > that are present in the RTP payload.=E2=80=9D > =20 > However, there is only one set of F bits per RTP packet. This section = should probably state: > =20 > =E2=80=9CThe value 0b01 is not valid. Receivers SHOULD ignore all ANC = data packets in an > RTP packet with an F field value of 0b01.=E2=80=9D > =20 > If this sounds reasonable, I will report a new erratum. > =20 > -Thomas > =20 > --=20 > Thomas Edwards > FOX Networks Engineering & Operations > VP Engineering & Development > thomas.edwards@fox.com > +1-310-369-6696 > 10201 W Pico Blvd > Los Angeles, CA 90035 > _______________________________________________ > payload mailing list > payload@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/payload From nobody Thu Jan 3 12:49:38 2019 Return-Path: X-Original-To: payload@ietf.org Delivered-To: payload@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from ietfa.amsl.com (localhost [IPv6:::1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0DFC5130F04; Thu, 3 Jan 2019 12:49:37 -0800 (PST) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: internet-drafts@ietf.org To: Cc: payload@ietf.org X-Test-IDTracker: no X-IETF-IDTracker: 6.89.2 Auto-Submitted: auto-generated Precedence: bulk Reply-To: payload@ietf.org Message-ID: <154654857700.29716.17421680122794239871@ietfa.amsl.com> Date: Thu, 03 Jan 2019 12:49:37 -0800 Archived-At: Subject: [payload] I-D Action: draft-ietf-payload-flexible-fec-scheme-14.txt X-BeenThere: payload@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 List-Id: Audio/Video Transport Payloads working group discussion list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 03 Jan 2019 20:49:37 -0000 A New Internet-Draft is available from the on-line Internet-Drafts directories. This draft is a work item of the Audio/Video Transport Payloads WG of the IETF. Title : RTP Payload Format for Flexible Forward Error Correction (FEC) Authors : Mo Zanaty Varun Singh Ali Begen Giridhar Mandyam Filename : draft-ietf-payload-flexible-fec-scheme-14.txt Pages : 49 Date : 2019-01-03 Abstract: This document defines new RTP payload formats for the Forward Error Correction (FEC) packets that are generated by the non-interleaved and interleaved parity codes from source media encapsulated in RTP. These parity codes are systematic codes, where a number of FEC repair packets are generated from a set of source packets from one or more source RTP streams. These FEC repair packets are sent in a redundancy RTP stream separate from the source RTP stream(s) that carries the source packets. RTP source packets that were lost in transmission can be reconstructed using the source and repair packets that were received. The non-interleaved and interleaved parity codes which are defined in this specification offer a good protection against random and bursty packet losses, respectively, at a cost of complexity. The RTP payload formats that are defined in this document address scalability issues experienced with the earlier specifications, and offer several improvements. Due to these changes, the new payload formats are not backward compatible with earlier specifications, but endpoints that do not implement this specification can still work by simply ignoring the FEC repair packets. The IETF datatracker status page for this draft is: https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-payload-flexible-fec-scheme/ There are also htmlized versions available at: https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-payload-flexible-fec-scheme-14 https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/html/draft-ietf-payload-flexible-fec-scheme-14 A diff from the previous version is available at: https://www.ietf.org/rfcdiff?url2=draft-ietf-payload-flexible-fec-scheme-14 Please note that it may take a couple of minutes from the time of submission until the htmlized version and diff are available at tools.ietf.org. Internet-Drafts are also available by anonymous FTP at: ftp://ftp.ietf.org/internet-drafts/ From nobody Thu Jan 3 12:49:53 2019 Return-Path: X-Original-To: payload@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: payload@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id C5322131312; Thu, 3 Jan 2019 12:49:46 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -4.299 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-4.299 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-2.3, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (1024-bit key) header.d=qti.qualcomm.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id nmgdCEqJpMT4; Thu, 3 Jan 2019 12:49:44 -0800 (PST) Received: from alexa-out-sd-01.qualcomm.com (alexa-out-sd-01.qualcomm.com [199.106.114.38]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id C48FD131330; Thu, 3 Jan 2019 12:49:43 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=simple/simple; d=qti.qualcomm.com; i=@qti.qualcomm.com; q=dns/txt; s=qcdkim; t=1546548583; x=1578084583; h=from:to:subject:date:message-id:mime-version; bh=fsIhb5/gKJ6SCzk4Yefq0H/q5UscN2sGG0SnRs/4VKk=; b=U1Sf3axcxJoz5BXK3uRkFYlJqDRgzEcQY9D9qDOJAPz+s3yrVwPrXkwR lKfhJBlSjzvEQJgneGKztYIhgpb02mPgZMDu37Bi0QdXzhb6xf/3xYJ9w 6j4apl0qOHo0a+kHVYECu6UvVTEa4YI+UxqwjyMB+W7DMIUYoLl/KhCk5 E=; X-IronPort-AV: E=Sophos; i="5.56,436,1539673200"; d="scan'208,217"; a="20115807" Received: from unknown (HELO ironmsg-SD-alpha.qualcomm.com) ([10.53.140.30]) by alexa-out-sd-01.qualcomm.com with ESMTP; 03 Jan 2019 12:49:42 -0800 X-IronPort-AV: E=McAfee;i="5900,7806,9125"; a="320294740" Received: from nasanexm01h.na.qualcomm.com ([10.85.0.34]) by ironmsg-SD-alpha.qualcomm.com with ESMTP/TLS/AES256-SHA; 03 Jan 2019 12:49:42 -0800 Received: from NASANEXM01C.na.qualcomm.com (10.85.0.83) by NASANEXM01H.na.qualcomm.com (10.85.0.34) with Microsoft SMTP Server (TLS) id 15.0.1395.4; Thu, 3 Jan 2019 12:49:42 -0800 Received: from NASANEXM01C.na.qualcomm.com ([10.85.0.83]) by NASANEXM01C.na.qualcomm.com ([10.85.0.83]) with mapi id 15.00.1395.000; Thu, 3 Jan 2019 12:49:42 -0800 From: Giridhar Mandyam To: "draft-ietf-payload-flexible-fec-scheme.all@ietf.org" , "payload@ietf.org" Thread-Topic: draft-ietf-payload-flexible-fec-scheme-14 notes Thread-Index: AdSjpbyCoL1+LHhrRfypJF1xMdVwaQ== Date: Thu, 3 Jan 2019 20:49:41 +0000 Message-ID: Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-ms-exchange-transport-fromentityheader: Hosted x-originating-ip: [10.80.80.8] Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="_000_c98b67a013d94d1d9fe62504153b83b6NASANEXM01Cnaqualcommco_" MIME-Version: 1.0 Archived-At: Subject: [payload] draft-ietf-payload-flexible-fec-scheme-14 notes X-BeenThere: payload@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: Audio/Video Transport Payloads working group discussion list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 03 Jan 2019 20:49:52 -0000 --_000_c98b67a013d94d1d9fe62504153b83b6NASANEXM01Cnaqualcommco_ Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 SGVsbG8gQWxsLA0KUGxlYXNlIG5vdGUgdGhhdCB0aGlzIGxhdGVzdCB2ZXJzaW9uIGlzIGluIHJl c3BvbnNlIHRvIHRoZSBBRCByZXZpZXcgYW5kIGNvdmVycyB0aGUgcmV2aWV3IHByb3ZpZGVkIGlu IFsxXS1bNF0uDQoNClRoZXJlIGFyZSBhIGNvdXBsZSBvZiBzdWJzdGFudGl2ZSBjaGFuZ2VzIGJh c2VkIG9uIEFEIHJldmlldyAodmVyc3VzIHZlcnNpb24gLTEzKSBvZiB3aGljaCB0aGUgZ3JvdXAg c2hvdWxkIGJlIGF3YXJlOg0KDQoNCiAgMS4gIFNlYy4gNC4yLjEuICBVbmRlciB0aGUgZGVzY3Jp 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L21zZy9wYXlsb2FkL3QtSktYdVB2SWVKOVZEYnF3N3BEd3ljOXZmQTwvYT4gPG86cD4NCjwvbzpw PjwvcD4NCjxwIGNsYXNzPSJNc29Ob3JtYWwiPjxvOnA+Jm5ic3A7PC9vOnA+PC9wPg0KPC9kaXY+ DQo8L2JvZHk+DQo8L2h0bWw+DQo= --_000_c98b67a013d94d1d9fe62504153b83b6NASANEXM01Cnaqualcommco_-- From nobody Mon Jan 7 02:26:35 2019 Return-Path: X-Original-To: payload@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: payload@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5B752130E73 for ; Mon, 7 Jan 2019 02:26:33 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -4.365 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-4.365 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIMWL_WL_HIGH=-0.065, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-2.3, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (1024-bit key) header.d=ericsson.com header.b=QeiLH6AG; dkim=pass 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"payload@ietf.org" , Ben Campbell Thread-Topic: [payload] draft-ietf-payload-flexible-fec-scheme-14 notes Thread-Index: AdSjpbyCoL1+LHhrRfypJF1xMdVwaQ== Date: Mon, 7 Jan 2019 10:26:19 +0000 Message-ID: References: Accept-Language: sv-SE, en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: authentication-results: spf=none (sender IP is ) smtp.mailfrom=magnus.westerlund@ericsson.com; x-originating-ip: [192.176.1.91] x-ms-publictraffictype: Email x-microsoft-exchange-diagnostics: 1; DB7PR07MB5561; 6:MxUrqwxlroxKLBy5uMpHFneZ45d/U90/rvzziUX9lDKhwQ+X8XbFP6Up/7Yn7BiiCE/d4a8djdzB2+KK0sfujW/YhLRnBiN+TGIYZoOAcSfYW7mWuS7fz/FoRttxyFndFhQitt/mkYirj8OYDqJR9Mj+IGE+94aBemwJw+UVNWCP9xfzbe6iI2p7MUzUn/Z9snnPxTw6v0UQbwRJtAOtEqSMTwcZnd9qNokPATmujYbRy/23yeiTjPOtf6Ggip0D3mkmCdHPmdSf8ySkCW7q/1mGEvvhyZq4vBnRz4wv2KH7wmmiQONbthCNCZ2czmo/5SLhcZPsZvlg4orCp1yTTFzKAgA07sP0elLLRNziq3KTDrnnvCA+Ei6xlmSXWNTzb9FUxk/bkaPVAAn8OQJDaQKxiMYsXKHsv7Fjt7cq4DK6WylH+G9lsXMZQL+xajdhvzeeu1jf2OQw9utQkdCO1w==; 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notes X-BeenThere: payload@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: Audio/Video Transport Payloads working group discussion list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 07 Jan 2019 10:26:33 -0000 --_000_DB7PR07MB4988ED389E5D133A6806E6B895890DB7PR07MB4988eurp_ Content-Type: text/plain; charset="Windows-1252" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hi, In regard to the below. On 2019-01-03 21:50, Giridhar Mandyam wrote: There are a couple of substantive changes based on AD review (versus versio= n -13) of which the group should be aware: 1. Sec. 4.2.1. Under the description of the SSRC field, the following r= equirement was previously a SHOULD: =93"The repair streams=92 SSRC=92s CNA= ME MUST be identical to the CNAME of the source RTP stream(s) that this rep= air stream protects.=94 There was actually a reason for this SHOULD. That should likely have been w= ritten out explicitly. In case of a RTP middlebox adding FEC to one or more= streams it forwards towards to a downstream receiver or other middlebox th= en it can't use the CNAME of the source stream if there are multiple ones f= rom different sources. Secondly, even if it forwards only from one, that SS= RC sending the FEC stream probably shouldn't be required to give the impres= sion that it is the source entity doing this. In some cases RTP middleboxes= are considering doing this on behalf of the original source, but not alway= s. Thus, I am opposed to make this change. I rather add an exception statement= after the SHOULD. The repair streams=92 SSRC=92s CNAME SHOULD be identical to the CNAME of th= e source RTP stream(s) that this repair stream protects. An FEC stream that= protects multiple source RTP streams with different CNAMEs uses the CNAME = associated with entity generating the FEC stream or the CNAME of the entity= on whose behalf it perform the protection operation. Cheers Magnus Westerlund ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Network Architecture & Protocols, Ericsson Research ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Ericsson AB | Phone +46 10 7148287 Torshamnsgatan 23 | Mobile +46 73 0949079 SE-164 80 Stockholm, Sweden | mailto: magnus.westerlund@ericsson.com ---------------------------------------------------------------------- --_000_DB7PR07MB4988ED389E5D133A6806E6B895890DB7PR07MB4988eurp_ Content-Type: text/html; charset="Windows-1252" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Hi,

In regard to the below.

On 2019-01-03 21:50, Giridhar Mandyam wrote:=
 

There are a couple of substantive changes based on A= D review (versus version -13) of which the group should be aware:

 

  1. Sec. 4.2.1.  Under the description of the SSRC field, the follow= ing requirement was previously a SHOULD:  =93"The repair streams= =92 SSRC=92s CNAME MUST be identical to the CNAME of the source RTP stream(s) that this repair stream protects.=94


There was actually a reason for this SHOULD. That should likely have bee= n written out explicitly. In case of a RTP middlebox adding FEC to one or m= ore streams it forwards towards to a downstream receiver or other middlebox= then it can't use the CNAME of the source stream if there are multiple ones from different sources. Secon= dly, even if it forwards only from one, that SSRC sending the FEC stream pr= obably shouldn't be required to give the impression that it is the source e= ntity doing this. In some cases RTP middleboxes are considering doing this on behalf of the original sourc= e, but not always.

Thus, I am opposed to make this change. I rather add an exception statem= ent after the SHOULD.

The repair streams=92 SSRC=92s CNAME SHOULD be identical to the CNAME of= the source RTP stream(s) that this repair stream protects. An FEC stream t= hat protects multiple source RTP streams with different CNAMEs uses the CNA= ME associated with entity generating the FEC stream or the CNAME of the entity on whose behalf it perform the p= rotection operation.


Cheers =0A=
=0A=
Magnus Westerlund =0A=
=0A=
----------------------------------------------------------------------=0A=
Network Architecture & Protocols, Ericsson Research=0A=
----------------------------------------------------------------------=0A=
Ericsson AB                 | Phone  +46 10 7148287=0A=
Torshamnsgatan 23           | Mobile +46 73 0949079=0A=
SE-164 80 Stockholm, Sweden | mailto: magnus.westerlund@ericsson.=
com=0A=
----------------------------------------------------------------------



--_000_DB7PR07MB4988ED389E5D133A6806E6B895890DB7PR07MB4988eurp_--


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From: "Roni Even (A)" 
To: Magnus Westerlund , Giridhar Mandyam , "draft-ietf-payload-flexible-fec-scheme.all@ietf.org" , "payload@ietf.org" , Ben Campbell 
Thread-Topic: [payload] draft-ietf-payload-flexible-fec-scheme-14 notes
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Date: Mon, 7 Jan 2019 11:30:42 +0000
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Hi Magnus,
This also what I thought specially the case of multiple sources.
Roni Even as Individual

From: Magnus Westerlund [mailto:magnus.westerlund@ericsson.com]
Sent: Monday, January 07, 2019 12:26 PM
To: Giridhar Mandyam; draft-ietf-payload-flexible-fec-scheme.all@ietf.org; =
payload@ietf.org; Ben Campbell
Subject: Re: [payload] draft-ietf-payload-flexible-fec-scheme-14 notes

Hi,

In regard to the below.

On 2019-01-03 21:50, Giridhar Mandyam wrote:

There are a couple of substantive changes based on AD review (versus versio=
n -13) of which the group should be aware:


  1.  Sec. 4.2.1.  Under the description of the SSRC field, the following r=
equirement was previously a SHOULD:  ""The repair streams' SSRC's CNAME MUS=
T be identical to the CNAME of the source RTP stream(s) that this repair st=
ream protects."



There was actually a reason for this SHOULD. That should likely have been w=
ritten out explicitly. In case of a RTP middlebox adding FEC to one or more=
 streams it forwards towards to a downstream receiver or other middlebox th=
en it can't use the CNAME of the source stream if there are multiple ones f=
rom different sources. Secondly, even if it forwards only from one, that SS=
RC sending the FEC stream probably shouldn't be required to give the impres=
sion that it is the source entity doing this. In some cases RTP middleboxes=
 are considering doing this on behalf of the original source, but not alway=
s.

Thus, I am opposed to make this change. I rather add an exception statement=
 after the SHOULD.

The repair streams' SSRC's CNAME SHOULD be identical to the CNAME of the so=
urce RTP stream(s) that this repair stream protects. An FEC stream that pro=
tects multiple source RTP streams with different CNAMEs uses the CNAME asso=
ciated with entity generating the FEC stream or the CNAME of the entity on =
whose behalf it perform the protection operation.



Cheers



Magnus Westerlund



----------------------------------------------------------------------

Network Architecture & Protocols, Ericsson Research

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Ericsson AB                 | Phone  +46 10 7148287

Torshamnsgatan 23           | Mobile +46 73 0949079

SE-164 80 Stockholm, Sweden | mailto: magnus.westerlund@ericsson.com

----------------------------------------------------------------------

--_000_6E58094ECC8D8344914996DAD28F1CCD18C99631dggemm526mbxchi_
Content-Type: text/html; charset="us-ascii"
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Hi Magnus,<=
/span>


This also what I thoug=
ht specially the case of multiple sources.



Roni Even as Individua=
l


 






From: Magnus Westerlund [mailto:magnus.westerlund@erics=
son.com]


Sent: Monday, January 07, 2019 12:26 PM

To: Giridhar Mandyam; draft-ietf-payload-flexible-fec-scheme.all@iet=
f.org; payload@ietf.org; Ben Campbell

Subject: Re: [payload] draft-ietf-payload-flexible-fec-scheme-14 not=
es






 




Hi,






 






In regard to the below.






 






On 2019-01-03 21:50, Giridhar Mandyam wrote:






 



There are a couple of substantive changes based on A=
D review (versus version -13) of which the group should be aware:


 


    

  1. Sec. 4.2.1. =
 Under the description of the SSRC field, the following requirement was pre=
viously a SHOULD:  “"The repair streams’ SSRC’s=
 CNAME MUST be identical to the CNAME of the source RTP stream(s) that
 this repair stream protects.” 




 


There was actually a reason for this SHOULD. That should likely have bee=
n written out explicitly. In case of a RTP middlebox adding FEC to one or m=
ore streams it forwards towards to a downstream receiver or other middlebox=
 then it can't use the CNAME of
 the source stream if there are multiple ones from different sources. Secon=
dly, even if it forwards only from one, that SSRC sending the FEC stream pr=
obably shouldn't be required to give the impression that it is the source e=
ntity doing this. In some cases
 RTP middleboxes are considering doing this on behalf of the original sourc=
e, but not always.



Thus, I am opposed to make this change. I rather add an exception statem=
ent after the SHOULD.



The repair streams’ SSRC’s CNAME SHOULD be identical to the =
CNAME of the source RTP stream(s) that this repair stream protects. An FEC =
stream that protects multiple source RTP streams with different CNAMEs uses=
 the CNAME associated with entity generating
 the FEC stream or the CNAME of the entity on whose behalf it perform the p=
rotection operation.


 


Cheers 


 


Magnus Westerlund 


 


----------------------------------------------------------------------=



Network Architecture & Protocols, Ericsson Research

----------------------------------------------------------------------=



Ericsson AB          =
;       | Phone  +46 10 7148287=



Torshamnsgatan 23         =
;  | Mobile +46 73 0949079


SE-164 80 Stockholm, Sweden | mailto: magnus.westerlund@ericsson.com


----------------------------------------------------------------------=







--_000_6E58094ECC8D8344914996DAD28F1CCD18C99631dggemm526mbxchi_--


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From: Giridhar Mandyam 
To: "Roni Even (A)" , Magnus Westerlund , "draft-ietf-payload-flexible-fec-scheme.all@ietf.org" , "payload@ietf.org" , Ben Campbell 
Thread-Topic: [payload] draft-ietf-payload-flexible-fec-scheme-14 notes
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Hi All,

I am in favor of making the change Magnus recommended below.  My apologies =
- I did not consider all use cases when responding to the AD review.  I wil=
l submit a revision next week (with this change and any other requested cha=
nges), assuming there are no objections.

-Giri

From: Roni Even (A) 
Sent: Monday, January 7, 2019 3:31 AM
To: Magnus Westerlund ; Giridhar Mandyam ; draft-ietf-payload-flexible-fec-scheme.all@ietf.o=
rg; payload@ietf.org; Ben Campbell 
Subject: RE: [payload] draft-ietf-payload-flexible-fec-scheme-14 notes


CAUTION: This email originated from outside of the organization.
Hi Magnus,
This also what I thought specially the case of multiple sources.
Roni Even as Individual

From: Magnus Westerlund [mailto:magnus.westerlund@ericsson.com]
Sent: Monday, January 07, 2019 12:26 PM
To: Giridhar Mandyam; draft-ietf-payload-flexible-fec-scheme.all@ietf.org; payload@ietf.or=
g; Ben Campbell
Subject: Re: [payload] draft-ietf-payload-flexible-fec-scheme-14 notes

Hi,

In regard to the below.

On 2019-01-03 21:50, Giridhar Mandyam wrote:

There are a couple of substantive changes based on AD review (versus versio=
n -13) of which the group should be aware:


  1.  Sec. 4.2.1.  Under the description of the SSRC field, the following r=
equirement was previously a SHOULD:  ""The repair streams' SSRC's CNAME MUS=
T be identical to the CNAME of the source RTP stream(s) that this repair st=
ream protects."



There was actually a reason for this SHOULD. That should likely have been w=
ritten out explicitly. In case of a RTP middlebox adding FEC to one or more=
 streams it forwards towards to a downstream receiver or other middlebox th=
en it can't use the CNAME of the source stream if there are multiple ones f=
rom different sources. Secondly, even if it forwards only from one, that SS=
RC sending the FEC stream probably shouldn't be required to give the impres=
sion that it is the source entity doing this. In some cases RTP middleboxes=
 are considering doing this on behalf of the original source, but not alway=
s.

Thus, I am opposed to make this change. I rather add an exception statement=
 after the SHOULD.

The repair streams' SSRC's CNAME SHOULD be identical to the CNAME of the so=
urce RTP stream(s) that this repair stream protects. An FEC stream that pro=
tects multiple source RTP streams with different CNAMEs uses the CNAME asso=
ciated with entity generating the FEC stream or the CNAME of the entity on =
whose behalf it perform the protection operation.



Cheers



Magnus Westerlund



----------------------------------------------------------------------

Network Architecture & Protocols, Ericsson Research

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Ericsson AB                 | Phone  +46 10 7148287

Torshamnsgatan 23           | Mobile +46 73 0949079

SE-164 80 Stockholm, Sweden | mailto: magnus.westerlund@ericsson.com

----------------------------------------------------------------------

--_000_32426087082648efb5dedb901d9c1fb9NASANEXM01Cnaqualcommco_
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Hi All,


 


I am in favor of making the change Magnus recommende=
d below.  My apologies – I did not consider all use cases when r=
esponding to the AD review.  I will submit a revision next week (with =
this change and any other requested changes), assuming
 there are no objections.


 


-Giri


 






From: Roni Even (A) <roni.even@huawei.com&=
gt; 

Sent: Monday, January 7, 2019 3:31 AM

To: Magnus Westerlund <magnus.westerlund@ericsson.com>; Giridh=
ar Mandyam <mandyam@qti.qualcomm.com>; draft-ietf-payload-flexible-fe=
c-scheme.all@ietf.org; payload@ietf.org; Ben Campbell <ben@nostrum.com&g=
t;

Subject: RE: [payload] draft-ietf-payload-flexible-fec-scheme-14 not=
es






 


CAUTION: This =
email originated from outside of the organization.


Hi Magnus,<=
/span>


This also what I thoug=
ht specially the case of multiple sources.



Roni Even as Individua=
l


 



 




Hi,






 






In regard to the below.






 






On 2019-01-03 21:50, Giridhar Mandyam wrote:






 



There are a couple of substantive changes based on A=
D review (versus version -13) of which the group should be aware:


 


    

  1. Sec. 4.2.1. =
 Under the description of the SSRC field, the following requirement was pre=
viously a SHOULD:  “"The repair streams’ SSRC’s=
 CNAME MUST be identical to the CNAME of the source RTP stream(s) that
 this repair stream protects.” 




 


There was actually a reason for this SHOULD. That should likely have bee=
n written out explicitly. In case of a RTP middlebox adding FEC to one or m=
ore streams it forwards towards to a downstream receiver or other middlebox=
 then it can't use the CNAME of
 the source stream if there are multiple ones from different sources. Secon=
dly, even if it forwards only from one, that SSRC sending the FEC stream pr=
obably shouldn't be required to give the impression that it is the source e=
ntity doing this. In some cases
 RTP middleboxes are considering doing this on behalf of the original sourc=
e, but not always.



Thus, I am opposed to make this change. I rather add an exception statem=
ent after the SHOULD.



The repair streams’ SSRC’s CNAME SHOULD be identical to the =
CNAME of the source RTP stream(s) that this repair stream protects. An FEC =
stream that protects multiple source RTP streams with different CNAMEs uses=
 the CNAME associated with entity generating
 the FEC stream or the CNAME of the entity on whose behalf it perform the p=
rotection operation.


 


Cheers 


 


Magnus Westerlund 


 


----------------------------------------------------------------------=



Network Architecture & Protocols, Ericsson Research

----------------------------------------------------------------------=



Ericsson AB          =
;       | Phone  +46 10 7148287=



Torshamnsgatan 23         =
;  | Mobile +46 73 0949079


SE-164 80 Stockholm, Sweden | mailto: magnus.westerlund@ericsson.com


----------------------------------------------------------------------=







--_000_32426087082648efb5dedb901d9c1fb9NASANEXM01Cnaqualcommco_--


From nobody Mon Jan  7 14:21:55 2019
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Date: Mon, 7 Jan 2019 16:21:39 -0600
In-Reply-To: <32426087082648efb5dedb901d9c1fb9@NASANEXM01C.na.qualcomm.com>
Cc: "Roni Even (A)" , Magnus Westerlund , "draft-ietf-payload-flexible-fec-scheme.all@ietf.org" ,  "payload@ietf.org" , Adam Roach 
To: Giridhar Mandyam 
References:   <6E58094ECC8D8344914996DAD28F1CCD18C99631@dggemm526-mbx.china.huawei.com> <32426087082648efb5dedb901d9c1fb9@NASANEXM01C.na.qualcomm.com>
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Subject: Re: [payload] draft-ietf-payload-flexible-fec-scheme-14 notes
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	charset=utf-8

Hi Giri,

I=E2=80=99ve looked at the update. I agree with Magnus=E2=80=99s =
recommendation.

Additionally, when I suggested using =E2=80=9Ciesg@iest.org =
=E2=80=9D for the contact for IANA registrations, =
I did not mean to change the =E2=80=9Cauthor=E2=80=9D field to that for =
the registrations that include an author. The point is to list the IESG =
as a contact for future communications, not to attribute authorship =
credit.

On a related note, in section 5.1.3, it shows =E2=80=9Ciesg@ietf.org =
=E2=80=9D as =E2=80=9Cviesg@ietf.org =
=E2=80=9D.

Please submit the new revision when you are ready.

Thanks!

Ben.


> On Jan 7, 2019, at 12:38 PM, Giridhar Mandyam =
 wrote:
>=20
> Hi All,
>=20
> I am in favor of making the change Magnus recommended below.  My =
apologies =E2=80=93 I did not consider all use cases when responding to =
the AD review.  I will submit a revision next week (with this change and =
any other requested changes), assuming there are no objections.
>=20
> -Giri
>=20
> From: Roni Even (A) >
> Sent: Monday, January 7, 2019 3:31 AM
> To: Magnus Westerlund >; Giridhar Mandyam =
>; =
draft-ietf-payload-flexible-fec-scheme.all@ietf.org =
; =
payload@ietf.org ; Ben Campbell =
>
> Subject: RE: [payload] draft-ietf-payload-flexible-fec-scheme-14 notes
>=20
> CAUTION: This email originated from outside of the organization.
>=20
> Hi Magnus,
> This also what I thought specially the case of multiple sources.
> Roni Even as Individual
>=20
> From: Magnus Westerlund [mailto:magnus.westerlund@ericsson.com =
]
> Sent: Monday, January 07, 2019 12:26 PM
> To: Giridhar Mandyam; =
draft-ietf-payload-flexible-fec-scheme.all@ietf.org =
; =
payload@ietf.org ; Ben Campbell
> Subject: Re: [payload] draft-ietf-payload-flexible-fec-scheme-14 notes
>=20
> Hi,
>=20
> In regard to the below.
>=20
> On 2019-01-03 21:50, Giridhar Mandyam wrote:
>=20
> There are a couple of substantive changes based on AD review (versus =
version -13) of which the group should be aware:
>=20
> Sec. 4.2.1.  Under the description of the SSRC field, the following =
requirement was previously a SHOULD:  =E2=80=9C"The repair streams=E2=80=99=
 SSRC=E2=80=99s CNAME MUST be identical to the CNAME of the source RTP =
stream(s) that this repair stream protects.=E2=80=9D
>=20
>=20
> There was actually a reason for this SHOULD. That should likely have =
been written out explicitly. In case of a RTP middlebox adding FEC to =
one or more streams it forwards towards to a downstream receiver or =
other middlebox then it can't use the CNAME of the source stream if =
there are multiple ones from different sources. Secondly, even if it =
forwards only from one, that SSRC sending the FEC stream probably =
shouldn't be required to give the impression that it is the source =
entity doing this. In some cases RTP middleboxes are considering doing =
this on behalf of the original source, but not always.
>=20
> Thus, I am opposed to make this change. I rather add an exception =
statement after the SHOULD.
>=20
> The repair streams=E2=80=99 SSRC=E2=80=99s CNAME SHOULD be identical =
to the CNAME of the source RTP stream(s) that this repair stream =
protects. An FEC stream that protects multiple source RTP streams with =
different CNAMEs uses the CNAME associated with entity generating the =
FEC stream or the CNAME of the entity on whose behalf it perform the =
protection operation.
>=20
>=20
>=20
> Cheers
>=20
> Magnus Westerlund
>=20
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
> Network Architecture & Protocols, Ericsson Research
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
> Ericsson AB                 | Phone  +46 10 7148287
> Torshamnsgatan 23           | Mobile +46 73 0949079
> SE-164 80 Stockholm, Sweden | mailto: magnus.westerlund@ericsson.com =

> ----------------------------------------------------------------------


--Apple-Mail=_5CB48335-22B7-438F-B7AB-358627D6D7EA
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Content-Type: text/html;
	charset=utf-8

Hi =
Giri,

I=E2=80=99ve =
looked at the update. I agree with Magnus=E2=80=99s =
recommendation.

Additionally, when I suggested using =E2=80=9Ciesg@iest.org=E2=80=9D for =
the contact for IANA registrations, I did not mean to change the =
=E2=80=9Cauthor=E2=80=9D field to that for the registrations that =
include an author. The point is to list the IESG as a contact for future =
communications, not to attribute authorship credit.

On a related note, in =
section 5.1.3, it shows =E2=80=9Ciesg@ietf.org=E2=80=9D as =E2=80=9Cviesg@ietf.org=E2=80=9D.

Please submit the =
new revision when you are ready.

Thanks!

Ben.


On Jan 7, 2019, at 12:38 PM, =
Giridhar Mandyam <mandyam@qti.qualcomm.com> wrote:

Hi All,
 
I am in favor of making the change =
Magnus recommended below.  My apologies =E2=80=93 I did not =
consider all use cases when responding to the AD review.  I will =
submit a revision next week (with this change and any other requested =
changes), assuming there are no objections.
 
-Giri
 
From: Roni Even (A) <roni.even@huawei.com> 
Sent: Monday, January 7, 2019 =
3:31 AM
To: Magnus Westerlund <magnus.westerlund@ericsson.com>; Giridhar Mandyam =
<mandyam@qti.qualcomm.com>; draft-ietf-payload-flexible-fec-scheme.all@ietf.org; payload@ietf.org; Ben =
Campbell <ben@nostrum.com>
Subject: RE: [payload] =
draft-ietf-payload-flexible-fec-scheme-14 notes
 
CAUTION: This email originated from outside of the =
organization.
Hi =
Magnus,
This also =
what I thought specially the case of multiple sources.
Roni Even as =
Individual
 
From: Magnus Westerlund [mailto:magnus.westerlund@ericsson.com] 
Sent: Monday, January 07, 2019 =
12:26 PM
To: Giridhar Mandyam; draft-ietf-payload-flexible-fec-scheme.all@ietf.org; payload@ietf.org; Ben =
Campbell
Subject: Re: [payload] =
draft-ietf-payload-flexible-fec-scheme-14 notes
 
Hi,
 
In regard to the below.
 
On 2019-01-03 21:50, Giridhar Mandyam wrote:
 
There are a couple of substantive =
changes based on AD review (versus version -13) of which the group =
should be aware:
 
  1. Sec. 4.2.1.  Under the =
description of the SSRC field, the following requirement was previously =
a SHOULD:  =E2=80=9C"The repair streams=E2=80=99 SSRC=E2=80=99s =
CNAME MUST be identical to the CNAME of the source RTP stream(s) that =
this repair stream protects.=E2=80=9D 
 
There was actually a reason for =
this SHOULD. That should likely have been written out explicitly. In =
case of a RTP middlebox adding FEC to one or more streams it forwards =
towards to a downstream receiver or other middlebox then it can't use =
the CNAME of the source stream if there are multiple ones from different =
sources. Secondly, even if it forwards only from one, that SSRC sending =
the FEC stream probably shouldn't be required to give the impression =
that it is the source entity doing this. In some cases RTP middleboxes =
are considering doing this on behalf of the original source, but not =
always.
Thus, I am opposed to =
make this change. I rather add an exception statement after the =
SHOULD.
The repair streams=E2=80=99=
 SSRC=E2=80=99s CNAME SHOULD be identical to the CNAME of the source RTP =
stream(s) that this repair stream protects. An FEC stream that protects =
multiple source RTP streams with different CNAMEs uses the CNAME =
associated with entity generating the FEC stream or the CNAME of the =
entity on whose behalf it perform the protection operation.
 
Cheers 
 
Magnus Westerlund 
 
---------------------------------------------------------------=
-------
Network =
Architecture & Protocols, Ericsson Research
---------------------------------------------------------------=
-------
Ericsson =
AB            =
     | Phone  +46 10 7148287
Torshamnsgatan =
23           | Mobile =
+46 73 0949079
SE-164 80 =
Stockholm, Sweden | mailto: magnus.westerlund@ericsson.com
---------------------------------------------------------------=
-------

=

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From nobody Sun Jan 13 15:32:33 2019
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Subject: [payload] I-D Action: draft-ietf-payload-flexible-fec-scheme-15.txt
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A New Internet-Draft is available from the on-line Internet-Drafts directories.
This draft is a work item of the Audio/Video Transport Payloads WG of the IETF.

        Title           : RTP Payload Format for Flexible Forward Error Correction (FEC)
        Authors         : Mo Zanaty
                          Varun Singh
                          Ali Begen
                          Giridhar Mandyam
	Filename        : draft-ietf-payload-flexible-fec-scheme-15.txt
	Pages           : 49
	Date            : 2019-01-13

Abstract:
   This document defines new RTP payload formats for the Forward Error
   Correction (FEC) packets that are generated by the non-interleaved
   and interleaved parity codes from source media encapsulated in RTP.
   These parity codes are systematic codes, where a number of FEC repair
   packets are generated from a set of source packets from one or more
   source RTP streams.  These FEC repair packets are sent in a
   redundancy RTP stream separate from the source RTP stream(s) that
   carries the source packets.  RTP source packets that were lost in
   transmission can be reconstructed using the source and repair packets
   that were received.  The non-interleaved and interleaved parity codes
   which are defined in this specification offer a good protection
   against random and bursty packet losses, respectively, at a cost of
   complexity.  The RTP payload formats that are defined in this
   document address scalability issues experienced with the earlier
   specifications, and offer several improvements.  Due to these
   changes, the new payload formats are not backward compatible with
   earlier specifications, but endpoints that do not implement this
   specification can still work by simply ignoring the FEC repair
   packets.


The IETF datatracker status page for this draft is:
https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-payload-flexible-fec-scheme/

There are also htmlized versions available at:
https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-payload-flexible-fec-scheme-15
https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/html/draft-ietf-payload-flexible-fec-scheme-15

A diff from the previous version is available at:
https://www.ietf.org/rfcdiff?url2=draft-ietf-payload-flexible-fec-scheme-15


Please note that it may take a couple of minutes from the time of submission
until the htmlized version and diff are available at tools.ietf.org.

Internet-Drafts are also available by anonymous FTP at:
ftp://ftp.ietf.org/internet-drafts/


From nobody Mon Jan 14 14:41:33 2019
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Date: Mon, 14 Jan 2019 16:41:26 -0600
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Cc: Adam Roach , "payload@ietf.org" , "draft-ietf-payload-flexible-fec-scheme.all@ietf.org" 
To: Giridhar Mandyam 
References:   <6E58094ECC8D8344914996DAD28F1CCD18C99631@dggemm526-mbx.china.huawei.com> <32426087082648efb5dedb901d9c1fb9@NASANEXM01C.na.qualcomm.com> <72DAF233-253D-4F94-8462-9AD9C0E50FF5@nostrum.com>
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Subject: Re: [payload] draft-ietf-payload-flexible-fec-scheme-14 notes
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I see version 15 is posted. The IANA changes do not quite reflect what I =
was trying to say:

The "Person & email address to contact for further information:=E2=80=9D =
should refer to the IESG . They currently say =E2=80=9CVaru=
n Singh " which is the correct email address but the =
wrong display name.

Along the same lines, I was asking to have the =E2=80=9CAuthor=E2=80=9D =
fields changed back to Varun. They now say "Varun Singh =
=E2=80=9D which is the correct display name but the wrong =
email address.

Thanks!

Ben.

> On Jan 7, 2019, at 4:21 PM, Ben Campbell  wrote:
>=20
> Signed PGP part
> Hi Giri,
>=20
> I=E2=80=99ve looked at the update. I agree with Magnus=E2=80=99s =
recommendation.
>=20
> Additionally, when I suggested using =E2=80=9Ciesg@iest.org=E2=80=9D =
for the contact for IANA registrations, I did not mean to change the =
=E2=80=9Cauthor=E2=80=9D field to that for the registrations that =
include an author. The point is to list the IESG as a contact for future =
communications, not to attribute authorship credit.
>=20
> On a related note, in section 5.1.3, it shows =E2=80=9Ciesg@ietf.org=E2=80=
=9D as =E2=80=9Cviesg@ietf.org=E2=80=9D.
>=20
> Please submit the new revision when you are ready.
>=20
> Thanks!
>=20
> Ben.
>=20
>=20
>> On Jan 7, 2019, at 12:38 PM, Giridhar Mandyam =
 wrote:
>>=20
>> Hi All,
>>=20
>> I am in favor of making the change Magnus recommended below.  My =
apologies =E2=80=93 I did not consider all use cases when responding to =
the AD review.  I will submit a revision next week (with this change and =
any other requested changes), assuming there are no objections.
>>=20
>> -Giri
>>=20
>> From: Roni Even (A) 
>> Sent: Monday, January 7, 2019 3:31 AM
>> To: Magnus Westerlund ; Giridhar =
Mandyam ; =
draft-ietf-payload-flexible-fec-scheme.all@ietf.org; payload@ietf.org; =
Ben Campbell 
>> Subject: RE: [payload] draft-ietf-payload-flexible-fec-scheme-14 =
notes
>>=20
>> CAUTION: This email originated from outside of the organization.
>>=20
>> Hi Magnus,
>> This also what I thought specially the case of multiple sources.
>> Roni Even as Individual
>>=20
>> From: Magnus Westerlund [mailto:magnus.westerlund@ericsson.com]
>> Sent: Monday, January 07, 2019 12:26 PM
>> To: Giridhar Mandyam; =
draft-ietf-payload-flexible-fec-scheme.all@ietf.org; payload@ietf.org; =
Ben Campbell
>> Subject: Re: [payload] draft-ietf-payload-flexible-fec-scheme-14 =
notes
>>=20
>> Hi,
>>=20
>> In regard to the below.
>>=20
>> On 2019-01-03 21:50, Giridhar Mandyam wrote:
>>=20
>> There are a couple of substantive changes based on AD review (versus =
version -13) of which the group should be aware:
>>=20
>> 	=E2=80=A2 Sec. 4.2.1.  Under the description of the SSRC field, =
the following requirement was previously a SHOULD:  =E2=80=9C"The repair =
streams=E2=80=99 SSRC=E2=80=99s CNAME MUST be identical to the CNAME of =
the source RTP stream(s) that this repair stream protects.=E2=80=9D
>>=20
>>=20
>> There was actually a reason for this SHOULD. That should likely have =
been written out explicitly. In case of a RTP middlebox adding FEC to =
one or more streams it forwards towards to a downstream receiver or =
other middlebox then it can't use the CNAME of the source stream if =
there are multiple ones from different sources. Secondly, even if it =
forwards only from one, that SSRC sending the FEC stream probably =
shouldn't be required to give the impression that it is the source =
entity doing this. In some cases RTP middleboxes are considering doing =
this on behalf of the original source, but not always.
>>=20
>> Thus, I am opposed to make this change. I rather add an exception =
statement after the SHOULD.
>>=20
>> The repair streams=E2=80=99 SSRC=E2=80=99s CNAME SHOULD be identical =
to the CNAME of the source RTP stream(s) that this repair stream =
protects. An FEC stream that protects multiple source RTP streams with =
different CNAMEs uses the CNAME associated with entity generating the =
FEC stream or the CNAME of the entity on whose behalf it perform the =
protection operation.
>>=20
>>=20
>>=20
>> Cheers
>>=20
>> Magnus Westerlund
>>=20
>> =
----------------------------------------------------------------------
>> Network Architecture & Protocols, Ericsson Research
>> =
----------------------------------------------------------------------
>> Ericsson AB                 | Phone  +46 10 7148287
>> Torshamnsgatan 23           | Mobile +46 73 0949079
>> SE-164 80 Stockholm, Sweden | mailto: magnus.westerlund@ericsson.com
>> =
----------------------------------------------------------------------
>=20
>=20
>=20


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From: Giridhar Mandyam 
To: Ben Campbell 
CC: Adam Roach , "payload@ietf.org" , "draft-ietf-payload-flexible-fec-scheme.all@ietf.org" 
Thread-Topic: [payload] draft-ietf-payload-flexible-fec-scheme-14 notes
Thread-Index: AdSjpbyCoL1+LHhrRfypJF1xMdVwaQC1k/xAAA76OrAAGJ0pgAFguxoAABC7VLA=
Date: Mon, 14 Jan 2019 22:52:27 +0000
Message-ID: <5a9ad14d506f4125a293e7b7ae8476da@NASANEXM01C.na.qualcomm.com>
References:   <6E58094ECC8D8344914996DAD28F1CCD18C99631@dggemm526-mbx.china.huawei.com> <32426087082648efb5dedb901d9c1fb9@NASANEXM01C.na.qualcomm.com> <72DAF233-253D-4F94-8462-9AD9C0E50FF5@nostrum.com> <1204EAB9-65F9-4A75-B97F-E4C3075D78BA@nostrum.com>
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From: Ben Campbell 
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Date: Mon, 14 Jan 2019 16:55:21 -0600
In-Reply-To: <5a9ad14d506f4125a293e7b7ae8476da@NASANEXM01C.na.qualcomm.com>
Cc: Adam Roach , "payload@ietf.org" , "draft-ietf-payload-flexible-fec-scheme.all@ietf.org" 
To: Giridhar Mandyam 
References:   <6E58094ECC8D8344914996DAD28F1CCD18C99631@dggemm526-mbx.china.huawei.com> <32426087082648efb5dedb901d9c1fb9@NASANEXM01C.na.qualcomm.com> <72DAF233-253D-4F94-8462-9AD9C0E50FF5@nostrum.com> <1204EAB9-65F9-4A75-B97F-E4C3075D78BA@nostrum.com> <5a9ad14d506f4125a293e7b7ae8476da@NASANEXM01C.na.qualcomm.com>
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Subject: Re: [payload] draft-ietf-payload-flexible-fec-scheme-14 notes
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> On Jan 14, 2019, at 4:52 PM, Giridhar Mandyam =
 wrote:
>=20
> Sorry about that.
>=20
> Regarding IESG  -  IESG isn't really a person.  Can I =
change "Person & email address to contact for further information:" to =
"Email address to contact for further information:=E2=80=9D?

Well, I guess the IESG is made of persons :-) I=E2=80=99d leave it as is =
rather than change the template.

>=20
> Regarding:  "Varun Singh =E2=80=9D, I thought the =
intent was to be able to contact the author regardless of whether their =
email address changes.  But I can put the original email address back in =
the revision.

Putting the iesg address in the =E2=80=9Cfor further information=E2=80=9D =
field is enough to accomplish that.

Thanks!

Ben.

>=20
> Thanks,
>=20
> -Giri Mandyam
>=20
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Ben Campbell 
> Sent: Monday, January 14, 2019 2:41 PM
> To: Giridhar Mandyam 
> Cc: Adam Roach ; payload@ietf.org; =
draft-ietf-payload-flexible-fec-scheme.all@ietf.org
> Subject: Re: [payload] draft-ietf-payload-flexible-fec-scheme-14 notes
>=20
> I see version 15 is posted. The IANA changes do not quite reflect what =
I was trying to say:
>=20
> The "Person & email address to contact for further information:=E2=80=9D=
 should refer to the IESG . They currently say =E2=80=9CVar=
un Singh " which is the correct email address but the =
wrong display name.
>=20
> Along the same lines, I was asking to have the =E2=80=9CAuthor=E2=80=9D =
fields changed back to Varun. They now say "Varun Singh =
=E2=80=9D which is the correct display name but the wrong =
email address.
>=20
> Thanks!
>=20
> Ben.
>=20
>> On Jan 7, 2019, at 4:21 PM, Ben Campbell  wrote:
>>=20
>> Signed PGP part
>> Hi Giri,
>>=20
>> I=E2=80=99ve looked at the update. I agree with Magnus=E2=80=99s =
recommendation.
>>=20
>> Additionally, when I suggested using =E2=80=9Ciesg@iest.org=E2=80=9D =
for the contact for IANA registrations, I did not mean to change the =
=E2=80=9Cauthor=E2=80=9D field to that for the registrations that =
include an author. The point is to list the IESG as a contact for future =
communications, not to attribute authorship credit.
>>=20
>> On a related note, in section 5.1.3, it shows =E2=80=9Ciesg@ietf.org=E2=
=80=9D as =E2=80=9Cviesg@ietf.org=E2=80=9D.
>>=20
>> Please submit the new revision when you are ready.
>>=20
>> Thanks!
>>=20
>> Ben.
>>=20
>>=20
>>> On Jan 7, 2019, at 12:38 PM, Giridhar Mandyam =
 wrote:
>>>=20
>>> Hi All,
>>>=20
>>> I am in favor of making the change Magnus recommended below.  My =
apologies =E2=80=93 I did not consider all use cases when responding to =
the AD review.  I will submit a revision next week (with this change and =
any other requested changes), assuming there are no objections.
>>>=20
>>> -Giri
>>>=20
>>> From: Roni Even (A) 
>>> Sent: Monday, January 7, 2019 3:31 AM
>>> To: Magnus Westerlund ; Giridhar
>>> Mandyam ;
>>> draft-ietf-payload-flexible-fec-scheme.all@ietf.org;
>>> payload@ietf.org; Ben Campbell 
>>> Subject: RE: [payload] draft-ietf-payload-flexible-fec-scheme-14
>>> notes
>>>=20
>>> CAUTION: This email originated from outside of the organization.
>>>=20
>>> Hi Magnus,
>>> This also what I thought specially the case of multiple sources.
>>> Roni Even as Individual
>>>=20
>>> From: Magnus Westerlund [mailto:magnus.westerlund@ericsson.com]
>>> Sent: Monday, January 07, 2019 12:26 PM
>>> To: Giridhar Mandyam;
>>> draft-ietf-payload-flexible-fec-scheme.all@ietf.org;
>>> payload@ietf.org; Ben Campbell
>>> Subject: Re: [payload] draft-ietf-payload-flexible-fec-scheme-14
>>> notes
>>>=20
>>> Hi,
>>>=20
>>> In regard to the below.
>>>=20
>>> On 2019-01-03 21:50, Giridhar Mandyam wrote:
>>>=20
>>> There are a couple of substantive changes based on AD review (versus =
version -13) of which the group should be aware:
>>>=20
>>> 	=E2=80=A2 Sec. 4.2.1.  Under the description of the SSRC field, =
the following requirement was previously a SHOULD:  =E2=80=9C"The repair =
streams=E2=80=99 SSRC=E2=80=99s CNAME MUST be identical to the CNAME of =
the source RTP stream(s) that this repair stream protects.=E2=80=9D
>>>=20
>>>=20
>>> There was actually a reason for this SHOULD. That should likely have =
been written out explicitly. In case of a RTP middlebox adding FEC to =
one or more streams it forwards towards to a downstream receiver or =
other middlebox then it can't use the CNAME of the source stream if =
there are multiple ones from different sources. Secondly, even if it =
forwards only from one, that SSRC sending the FEC stream probably =
shouldn't be required to give the impression that it is the source =
entity doing this. In some cases RTP middleboxes are considering doing =
this on behalf of the original source, but not always.
>>>=20
>>> Thus, I am opposed to make this change. I rather add an exception =
statement after the SHOULD.
>>>=20
>>> The repair streams=E2=80=99 SSRC=E2=80=99s CNAME SHOULD be identical =
to the CNAME of the source RTP stream(s) that this repair stream =
protects. An FEC stream that protects multiple source RTP streams with =
different CNAMEs uses the CNAME associated with entity generating the =
FEC stream or the CNAME of the entity on whose behalf it perform the =
protection operation.
>>>=20
>>>=20
>>>=20
>>> Cheers
>>>=20
>>> Magnus Westerlund
>>>=20
>>> =
---------------------------------------------------------------------
>>> - Network Architecture & Protocols, Ericsson Research
>>> =
----------------------------------------------------------------------
>>> Ericsson AB                 | Phone  +46 10 7148287
>>> Torshamnsgatan 23           | Mobile +46 73 0949079
>>> SE-164 80 Stockholm, Sweden | mailto: magnus.westerlund@ericsson.com
>>> =
---------------------------------------------------------------------
>>> -
>>=20
>>=20
>>=20
>=20


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From nobody Thu Jan 17 09:40:06 2019
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From: James Sandford 
To: "payload@ietf.org" 
Thread-Topic: new draft - RTP Payload for TTML Timed Text
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From: Kjetil Oftedal 
Date: Thu, 17 Jan 2019 19:53:45 +0100
Message-ID: 
To: James Sandford 
Cc: "payload@ietf.org" 
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Subject: Re: [payload] new draft - RTP Payload for TTML Timed Text
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On 17/01/2019, James Sandford  wrote:
> I have uploaded a draft specifying an RTP payload format for TTML Timed Text
> https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-sandford-payload-rtp-ttml/
>

Hi,

Can you please elaborate a bit on the RTP Timestamping requirements
outlined here?
As far as I can see TTML already specifies the timing of the text in
relation to some epoch.
Will the processing of the RTP packet require the receiver/sender to
rewrite the timing data in TTML-information in relation to the RTP
timestamp? Or written another way: Is the RTP Timestamp considered the
epoch of the TTML document?

Best regards,
Kjetil Oftedal


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From: Thomas Edwards 
To: Kjetil Oftedal , James Sandford 
CC: "payload@ietf.org" 
Thread-Topic: [payload] new draft - RTP Payload for TTML Timed Text
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Subject: Re: [payload] new draft - RTP Payload for TTML Timed Text
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From nobody Thu Jan 17 11:56:06 2019
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Subject: [payload] I-D Action: draft-ietf-payload-flexible-fec-scheme-16.txt
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A New Internet-Draft is available from the on-line Internet-Drafts directories.
This draft is a work item of the Audio/Video Transport Payloads WG of the IETF.

        Title           : RTP Payload Format for Flexible Forward Error Correction (FEC)
        Authors         : Mo Zanaty
                          Varun Singh
                          Ali Begen
                          Giridhar Mandyam
	Filename        : draft-ietf-payload-flexible-fec-scheme-16.txt
	Pages           : 49
	Date            : 2019-01-17

Abstract:
   This document defines new RTP payload formats for the Forward Error
   Correction (FEC) packets that are generated by the non-interleaved
   and interleaved parity codes from source media encapsulated in RTP.
   These parity codes are systematic codes, where a number of FEC repair
   packets are generated from a set of source packets from one or more
   source RTP streams.  These FEC repair packets are sent in a
   redundancy RTP stream separate from the source RTP stream(s) that
   carries the source packets.  RTP source packets that were lost in
   transmission can be reconstructed using the source and repair packets
   that were received.  The non-interleaved and interleaved parity codes
   which are defined in this specification offer a good protection
   against random and bursty packet losses, respectively, at a cost of
   complexity.  The RTP payload formats that are defined in this
   document address scalability issues experienced with the earlier
   specifications, and offer several improvements.  Due to these
   changes, the new payload formats are not backward compatible with
   earlier specifications, but endpoints that do not implement this
   specification can still work by simply ignoring the FEC repair
   packets.


The IETF datatracker status page for this draft is:
https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-payload-flexible-fec-scheme/

There are also htmlized versions available at:
https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-payload-flexible-fec-scheme-16
https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/html/draft-ietf-payload-flexible-fec-scheme-16

A diff from the previous version is available at:
https://www.ietf.org/rfcdiff?url2=draft-ietf-payload-flexible-fec-scheme-16


Please note that it may take a couple of minutes from the time of submission
until the htmlized version and diff are available at tools.ietf.org.

Internet-Drafts are also available by anonymous FTP at:
ftp://ftp.ietf.org/internet-drafts/


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From: Giridhar Mandyam 
To: Ben Campbell 
CC: Adam Roach , "payload@ietf.org" , "draft-ietf-payload-flexible-fec-scheme.all@ietf.org" 
Thread-Topic: [payload] draft-ietf-payload-flexible-fec-scheme-14 notes
Thread-Index: AdSjpbyCoL1+LHhrRfypJF1xMdVwaQC1k/xAAA76OrAAGJ0pgAFguxoAABC7VLD//34IgP/8AKaw
Date: Thu, 17 Jan 2019 19:58:36 +0000
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References:   <6E58094ECC8D8344914996DAD28F1CCD18C99631@dggemm526-mbx.china.huawei.com> <32426087082648efb5dedb901d9c1fb9@NASANEXM01C.na.qualcomm.com> <72DAF233-253D-4F94-8462-9AD9C0E50FF5@nostrum.com> <1204EAB9-65F9-4A75-B97F-E4C3075D78BA@nostrum.com> <5a9ad14d506f4125a293e7b7ae8476da@NASANEXM01C.na.qualcomm.com> <064EFF9B-187B-4660-9FA6-C9A793AF677C@nostrum.com>
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Subject: Re: [payload] draft-ietf-payload-flexible-fec-scheme-14 notes
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From: James Sandford 
To: Thomas Edwards , Kjetil Oftedal 
CC: "payload@ietf.org" 
Thread-Topic: [payload] new draft - RTP Payload for TTML Timed Text
Thread-Index: AdSuh6AYULm9HPIlScy9aWUDvmlrAAADljSA//9/BYCAAW9RvA==
Date: Fri, 18 Jan 2019 09:40:34 +0000
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Subject: Re: [payload] new draft - RTP Payload for TTML Timed Text
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From nobody Fri Jan 18 14:47:38 2019
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From: Ben Campbell 
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Date: Fri, 18 Jan 2019 16:47:30 -0600
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Cc: Adam Roach , "payload@ietf.org" , "draft-ietf-payload-flexible-fec-scheme.all@ietf.org" 
To: Giridhar Mandyam 
References:   <6E58094ECC8D8344914996DAD28F1CCD18C99631@dggemm526-mbx.china.huawei.com> <32426087082648efb5dedb901d9c1fb9@NASANEXM01C.na.qualcomm.com> <72DAF233-253D-4F94-8462-9AD9C0E50FF5@nostrum.com> <1204EAB9-65F9-4A75-B97F-E4C3075D78BA@nostrum.com> <5a9ad14d506f4125a293e7b7ae8476da@NASANEXM01C.na.qualcomm.com> <064EFF9B-187B-4660-9FA6-C9A793AF677C@nostrum.com> <70efef78f93145c8ad0fa3eaef7bb24a@NASANEXM01C.na.qualcomm.com>
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Subject: Re: [payload] draft-ietf-payload-flexible-fec-scheme-14 notes
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Thanks!

I will coordinate with Adam to request IETF LC for this and for the =
related RTCWEB draft.

Ben.

> On Jan 17, 2019, at 1:58 PM, Giridhar Mandyam =
 wrote:
>=20
> Version 16 now posted to address the comments below.
> Thanks,
>=20
> -Giri Mandyam
>=20
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Ben Campbell 
> Sent: Monday, January 14, 2019 2:55 PM
> To: Giridhar Mandyam 
> Cc: Adam Roach ; payload@ietf.org; =
draft-ietf-payload-flexible-fec-scheme.all@ietf.org
> Subject: Re: [payload] draft-ietf-payload-flexible-fec-scheme-14 notes
>=20
>=20
>=20
>> On Jan 14, 2019, at 4:52 PM, Giridhar Mandyam =
 wrote:
>>=20
>> Sorry about that.
>>=20
>> Regarding IESG  -  IESG isn't really a person.  Can I =
change "Person & email address to contact for further information:" to =
"Email address to contact for further information:=E2=80=9D?
>=20
> Well, I guess the IESG is made of persons :-) I=E2=80=99d leave it as =
is rather than change the template.
>=20
>>=20
>> Regarding:  "Varun Singh =E2=80=9D, I thought the =
intent was to be able to contact the author regardless of whether their =
email address changes.  But I can put the original email address back in =
the revision.
>=20
> Putting the iesg address in the =E2=80=9Cfor further information=E2=80=9D=
 field is enough to accomplish that.
>=20
> Thanks!
>=20
> Ben.
>=20
>>=20
>> Thanks,
>>=20
>> -Giri Mandyam
>>=20
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: Ben Campbell 
>> Sent: Monday, January 14, 2019 2:41 PM
>> To: Giridhar Mandyam 
>> Cc: Adam Roach ; payload@ietf.org;
>> draft-ietf-payload-flexible-fec-scheme.all@ietf.org
>> Subject: Re: [payload] draft-ietf-payload-flexible-fec-scheme-14 =
notes
>>=20
>> I see version 15 is posted. The IANA changes do not quite reflect =
what I was trying to say:
>>=20
>> The "Person & email address to contact for further information:=E2=80=9D=
 should refer to the IESG . They currently say =E2=80=9CVar=
un Singh " which is the correct email address but the =
wrong display name.
>>=20
>> Along the same lines, I was asking to have the =E2=80=9CAuthor=E2=80=9D=
 fields changed back to Varun. They now say "Varun Singh =
=E2=80=9D which is the correct display name but the wrong =
email address.
>>=20
>> Thanks!
>>=20
>> Ben.
>>=20
>>> On Jan 7, 2019, at 4:21 PM, Ben Campbell  wrote:
>>>=20
>>> Signed PGP part
>>> Hi Giri,
>>>=20
>>> I=E2=80=99ve looked at the update. I agree with Magnus=E2=80=99s =
recommendation.
>>>=20
>>> Additionally, when I suggested using =E2=80=9Ciesg@iest.org=E2=80=9D =
for the contact for IANA registrations, I did not mean to change the =
=E2=80=9Cauthor=E2=80=9D field to that for the registrations that =
include an author. The point is to list the IESG as a contact for future =
communications, not to attribute authorship credit.
>>>=20
>>> On a related note, in section 5.1.3, it shows =E2=80=9Ciesg@ietf.org=E2=
=80=9D as =E2=80=9Cviesg@ietf.org=E2=80=9D.
>>>=20
>>> Please submit the new revision when you are ready.
>>>=20
>>> Thanks!
>>>=20
>>> Ben.
>>>=20
>>>=20
>>>> On Jan 7, 2019, at 12:38 PM, Giridhar Mandyam =
 wrote:
>>>>=20
>>>> Hi All,
>>>>=20
>>>> I am in favor of making the change Magnus recommended below.  My =
apologies =E2=80=93 I did not consider all use cases when responding to =
the AD review.  I will submit a revision next week (with this change and =
any other requested changes), assuming there are no objections.
>>>>=20
>>>> -Giri
>>>>=20
>>>> From: Roni Even (A) 
>>>> Sent: Monday, January 7, 2019 3:31 AM
>>>> To: Magnus Westerlund ; Giridhar
>>>> Mandyam ;
>>>> draft-ietf-payload-flexible-fec-scheme.all@ietf.org;
>>>> payload@ietf.org; Ben Campbell 
>>>> Subject: RE: [payload] draft-ietf-payload-flexible-fec-scheme-14
>>>> notes
>>>>=20
>>>> CAUTION: This email originated from outside of the organization.
>>>>=20
>>>> Hi Magnus,
>>>> This also what I thought specially the case of multiple sources.
>>>> Roni Even as Individual
>>>>=20
>>>> From: Magnus Westerlund [mailto:magnus.westerlund@ericsson.com]
>>>> Sent: Monday, January 07, 2019 12:26 PM
>>>> To: Giridhar Mandyam;
>>>> draft-ietf-payload-flexible-fec-scheme.all@ietf.org;
>>>> payload@ietf.org; Ben Campbell
>>>> Subject: Re: [payload] draft-ietf-payload-flexible-fec-scheme-14
>>>> notes
>>>>=20
>>>> Hi,
>>>>=20
>>>> In regard to the below.
>>>>=20
>>>> On 2019-01-03 21:50, Giridhar Mandyam wrote:
>>>>=20
>>>> There are a couple of substantive changes based on AD review =
(versus version -13) of which the group should be aware:
>>>>=20
>>>> 	=E2=80=A2 Sec. 4.2.1.  Under the description of the SSRC field, =
the following requirement was previously a SHOULD:  =E2=80=9C"The repair =
streams=E2=80=99 SSRC=E2=80=99s CNAME MUST be identical to the CNAME of =
the source RTP stream(s) that this repair stream protects.=E2=80=9D
>>>>=20
>>>>=20
>>>> There was actually a reason for this SHOULD. That should likely =
have been written out explicitly. In case of a RTP middlebox adding FEC =
to one or more streams it forwards towards to a downstream receiver or =
other middlebox then it can't use the CNAME of the source stream if =
there are multiple ones from different sources. Secondly, even if it =
forwards only from one, that SSRC sending the FEC stream probably =
shouldn't be required to give the impression that it is the source =
entity doing this. In some cases RTP middleboxes are considering doing =
this on behalf of the original source, but not always.
>>>>=20
>>>> Thus, I am opposed to make this change. I rather add an exception =
statement after the SHOULD.
>>>>=20
>>>> The repair streams=E2=80=99 SSRC=E2=80=99s CNAME SHOULD be =
identical to the CNAME of the source RTP stream(s) that this repair =
stream protects. An FEC stream that protects multiple source RTP streams =
with different CNAMEs uses the CNAME associated with entity generating =
the FEC stream or the CNAME of the entity on whose behalf it perform the =
protection operation.
>>>>=20
>>>>=20
>>>>=20
>>>> Cheers
>>>>=20
>>>> Magnus Westerlund
>>>>=20
>>>> =
--------------------------------------------------------------------
>>>> -
>>>> - Network Architecture & Protocols, Ericsson Research
>>>> =
----------------------------------------------------------------------
>>>> Ericsson AB                 | Phone  +46 10 7148287
>>>> Torshamnsgatan 23           | Mobile +46 73 0949079
>>>> SE-164 80 Stockholm, Sweden | mailto: =
magnus.westerlund@ericsson.com
>>>> =
--------------------------------------------------------------------
>>>> -
>>>> -
>>>=20
>>>=20
>>>=20
>>=20
>=20


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From nobody Fri Jan 18 15:55:28 2019
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CC: ben@nostrum.com, payload-chairs@ietf.org, payload@ietf.org, roni.even@mail01.huawei.com, Roni Even , draft-ietf-payload-flexible-fec-scheme@ietf.org
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Date: Fri, 18 Jan 2019 15:55:17 -0800
Archived-At: 
Subject: [payload] Last Call:  (RTP Payload Format for Flexible Forward Error Correction (FEC)) to Proposed Standard
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The IESG has received a request from the Audio/Video Transport Payloads WG
(payload) to consider the following document: - 'RTP Payload Format for
Flexible Forward Error Correction (FEC)'
   as Proposed Standard

The IESG plans to make a decision in the next few weeks, and solicits final
comments on this action. Please send substantive comments to the
ietf@ietf.org mailing lists by 2019-02-01. Exceptionally, comments may be
sent to iesg@ietf.org instead. In either case, please retain the beginning of
the Subject line to allow automated sorting.

Abstract


   This document defines new RTP payload formats for the Forward Error
   Correction (FEC) packets that are generated by the non-interleaved
   and interleaved parity codes from source media encapsulated in RTP.
   These parity codes are systematic codes, where a number of FEC repair
   packets are generated from a set of source packets from one or more
   source RTP streams.  These FEC repair packets are sent in a
   redundancy RTP stream separate from the source RTP stream(s) that
   carries the source packets.  RTP source packets that were lost in
   transmission can be reconstructed using the source and repair packets
   that were received.  The non-interleaved and interleaved parity codes
   which are defined in this specification offer a good protection
   against random and bursty packet losses, respectively, at a cost of
   complexity.  The RTP payload formats that are defined in this
   document address scalability issues experienced with the earlier
   specifications, and offer several improvements.  Due to these
   changes, the new payload formats are not backward compatible with
   earlier specifications, but endpoints that do not implement this
   specification can still work by simply ignoring the FEC repair
   packets.




The file can be obtained via
https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-payload-flexible-fec-scheme/

IESG discussion can be tracked via
https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-payload-flexible-fec-scheme/ballot/

The following IPR Declarations may be related to this I-D:

   https://datatracker.ietf.org/ipr/2794/






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From: "Roni Even (A)" 
To: "draft-ietf-payload-tetra@ietf.org" 
CC: "payload@ietf.org" 
Thread-Topic: Update tetra draft after WGLC
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Hi guys,
Can you please update the document based on the last emails after the WGLC.
I assume that we can send the document for publication once you address the=
 comments
Regards
Roni Even

Payload co-chair

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Hi guys,


Can you please update the document based on the last=
 emails after the WGLC.


I assume that we can send the document for publicati=
on once you address the comments


Regards


Roni Even


 


Payload co-chair






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From: "Roni Even (A)" 
To: "draft-ietf-payload-vp9@ietf.org" 
CC: "payload@ietf.org" 
Thread-Topic: status of VP9 payload
Thread-Index: AdSwi489Zw/vYlIRSiaKdjFaogeUqA==
Date: Sun, 20 Jan 2019 06:45:11 +0000
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Hi authors,
Can you please update us with the status of this document
Thanks
Roni Even
Payload WG co-chair

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Hi authors,


Can you please update us with the status of this doc=
ument


Thanks


Roni Even 


Payload WG co-chair






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From: "Roni Even (A)" 
To: James Sandford , "payload@ietf.org" 
Thread-Topic: new draft - RTP Payload for TTML Timed Text
Thread-Index: AdSuh6AYULm9HPIlScy9aWUDvmlrAACC8EFw
Date: Sun, 20 Jan 2019 08:09:36 +0000
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From nobody Wed Jan 23 02:40:38 2019
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From: James Sandford 
To: "A102BBEA@dynmail.crt1.net" , "payload@ietf.org" 
Thread-Topic: [payload] Review request for JPEG XS RTP payload format I-D
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Date: Wed, 23 Jan 2019 10:40:28 +0000
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Subject: Re: [payload] Review request for JPEG XS RTP payload format I-D
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--_000_734752AF0E88364D983373FE5CEFED57594A3806bgb01xud1001_--


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A New Internet-Draft is available from the on-line Internet-Drafts directories.
This draft is a work item of the Audio/Video Transport Payloads WG of the IETF.

        Title           : RTP Payload Format for the TETRA Audio Codec
        Authors         : Andreas Reisenbauer
                          Udo Brandhuber
                          Joachim Hagedorn
                          Klaus-Peter Höhnsch
                          Stefan Wenk
	Filename        : draft-ietf-payload-tetra-02.txt
	Pages           : 15
	Date            : 2019-01-23

Abstract:
   This document specifies a Real-time Transport Protocol (RTP) payload
   format for TETRA encoded speech signals.  The payload format is
   designed to be able to interoperate with existing TETRA transport
   formats on non-IP networks.  A media type registration is included,
   specifying the use of the RTP payload format and the storage format.


The IETF datatracker status page for this draft is:
https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-payload-tetra/

There are also htmlized versions available at:
https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-payload-tetra-02
https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/html/draft-ietf-payload-tetra-02

A diff from the previous version is available at:
https://www.ietf.org/rfcdiff?url2=draft-ietf-payload-tetra-02


Please note that it may take a couple of minutes from the time of submission
until the htmlized version and diff are available at tools.ietf.org.

Internet-Drafts are also available by anonymous FTP at:
ftp://ftp.ietf.org/internet-drafts/


From nobody Wed Jan 23 03:50:27 2019
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From: REISENBAUER Andreas 
To: "Roni Even (A)" , "draft-ietf-payload-tetra@ietf.org" 
CC: "payload@ietf.org" 
Thread-Topic: Update tetra draft after WGLC
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Date: Wed, 23 Jan 2019 11:50:16 +0000
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--_000_19ae7be5b1bb4e57adf6d99999fa5883frequentiscom_
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Hi Roni,
Thanks a lot for pushing me

I now have incorporated:
*) Andreas Ahland's comment on chapter 4.3.6
*) Dave Satterlee's comment on the errornous multi-channel payload in the i=
ntroduction chapter
*) Your comment on the media type definition as we agreed on via e-mail (af=
ter fixing my typo with "The media subtype ..."

So I uploaded a new version draft-ietf-tetra-02

Many thanks for all your efforts and all the best
Andreas

From: Roni Even (A) [mailto:roni.even@huawei.com]
Sent: Sonntag, 20. J=E4nner 2019 07:42
To: draft-ietf-payload-tetra@ietf.org
Cc: payload@ietf.org
Subject: Update tetra draft after WGLC

Hi guys,
Can you please update the document based on the last emails after the WGLC.
I assume that we can send the document for publication once you address the=
 comments
Regards
Roni Even

Payload co-chair

--_000_19ae7be5b1bb4e57adf6d99999fa5883frequentiscom_
Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1"
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Hi Roni,


Thanks a lot for pushi=
ng me


 


I now have incorporate=
d: 


*) Andreas Ahland̵=
7;s comment on chapter 4.3.6


*) Dave Satterlee̵=
7;s comment on the errornous multi-channel payload in the introduction chap=
ter


*) Your comment on the=
 media type definition as we agreed on via e-mail (after fixing my typo wit=
h “The media subtype …”


 


So I uploaded a new ve=
rsion draft-ietf-tetra-02


 


Many thanks for all yo=
ur efforts and all the best


Andreas


 






From: Roni Even (A) [mailto:roni.even@huawei.com]


Sent: Sonntag, 20. J=E4nner 2019 07:42

To: draft-ietf-payload-tetra@ietf.org

Cc: payload@ietf.org

Subject: Update tetra draft after WGLC






 


Hi guys,


Can you please update the docum=
ent based on the last emails after the WGLC.


I assume that we can send the d=
ocument for publication once you address the comments


Regards


Roni Even


 


Payload co-chair






--_000_19ae7be5b1bb4e57adf6d99999fa5883frequentiscom_--


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From: Stefan Holmer 
Date: Wed, 23 Jan 2019 17:02:43 +0100
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To: "Roni Even (A)" 
Cc: "draft-ietf-payload-vp9@ietf.org" , "payload@ietf.org" 
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I plan to update the draft soon.

/Stefan

On Sun, Jan 20, 2019 at 7:45 AM Roni Even (A)  wrote:

> Hi authors,
>
> Can you please update us with the status of this document
>
> Thanks
>
> Roni Even
>
> Payload WG co-chair
>

--0000000000000c2f170580223ae2
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I plan to update the draft soon.

/Stefa=
n

On Sun, Jan 20=
, 2019 at 7:45 AM Roni Even (A) <roni.even@huawei.com> wrote:











Hi authors,


Can you please update us with the status of this doc=
ument


Thanks


Roni Even 


Payload WG co-chair









--0000000000000c2f170580223ae2--


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From: "Tuominen, Antti" 
To: "draft-ietf-payload-tetra@ietf.org" , "payload@ietf.org" , REISENBAUER Andreas , Roni Even 
Thread-Topic: Comments to draft-ietf-tetra-02
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Hi Andreas, Roni, all,

I realize I'm quite late with my comments, but I just recently found out ab=
out this effort.

The normative reference ETSI TS 100 392-3-6 is marked as historical and sho=
uld not be used as a normative reference for a new standard. Further, the s=
tandard was never used in the context presented in the document (i.e. in TE=
TRA Inter-System Interface). It has been superseded by ETSI TS 100 392-3-8 =
Generic Speech Format [1], which is actually used for Inter-System Interfac=
e connections. Latest revision of Generic Speech Format also specifies how =
the TETRA speech frames are carried over RTP. The media sub-type has been r=
egistered with IANA as "audio/TETRA_ACELP" [2]. It seems a bit superfluous =
to specify another slightly different format.

Further, the BDBOS-BIP20 normative reference does not have a URL. Is my ass=
umption correct that this is not a public specification? The values for the=
 R-bits seem to be extra information not deduced from the TETRA voice frame=
 data.

Best regards,
Antti

[1] https://www.etsi.org/deliver/etsi_ts/100300_100399/1003920308/01.03.01_=
60/ts_1003920308v010301p.pdf
[2] https://www.iana.org/assignments/media-types/audio/TETRA_ACELP

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From: James Sandford 
To: "Roni Even (A)" , "payload@ietf.org" 
Thread-Topic: new draft - RTP Payload for TTML Timed Text
Thread-Index: AdSuh6AYULm9HPIlScy9aWUDvmlrAACC8EFwANoyep0=
Date: Thu, 24 Jan 2019 15:49:46 +0000
Message-ID: <734752AF0E88364D983373FE5CEFED57594A6CDF@bgb01xud1001>
References: <734752AF0E88364D983373FE5CEFED575941480A@bgb01xud1001>, <6E58094ECC8D8344914996DAD28F1CCD18CA4C74@dggemm526-mbx.china.huawei.com>
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Subject: Re: [payload] new draft - RTP Payload for TTML Timed Text
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Hello,
I've uploaded a new version that hopefully addresses these concerns. https:=
//datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-sandford-payload-rtp-ttml/01/

Regards,
James


=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D
James Sandford
R&D Engineer

BBC Research and Development
5th Floor
Dock House
MediaCityUK
Salford
M50 2LH

Tel: 030304 (09549)
Web: http://www.bbc.co.uk/rd
________________________________
From: Roni Even (A) [roni.even@huawei.com]
Sent: 20 January 2019 08:09
To: James Sandford; payload@ietf.org
Subject: RE: new draft - RTP Payload for TTML Timed Text

Hi,
Thanks for submitting the document. I did a quick review and the table of c=
ontent has all the required sections
I see that there is interest in this work from the mailing list discussion =
and new RTP payload is in the charter of the WG so we can most probably pro=
gress the document.
Some comments as WG chair

The IANA section should include the registration template. I looked at the =
reference to the ttml document (https://www.w3.org/TR/ttml-profile-registry=
/ ) and noticed the ttml+xml registration template, this should be in this =
document, I also expect some more content in section 5 and 6
As for the security consideration, the length field is per packet but I did=
 not see any concerns about the document size, is it unbound which can caus=
e denial of service attack by sending large documents. Please look at RFC80=
88 (https://tools.ietf.org/html/rfc8088 ) to see how to write the important=
 specification sections in section 7.


As an individual, I saw some discussion about the clock rate so assume it w=
ill be addressed. I noticed that the default rate is 1000 yet the example i=
n 7.2.1 has 90000 so I was also looking for some guidelines about how to se=
lect the clock rate.

Roni Even
Payload WG co-chair




From: payload [mailto:payload-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of James Sandford
Sent: Thursday, January 17, 2019 7:40 PM
To: payload@ietf.org
Subject: [payload] new draft - RTP Payload for TTML Timed Text

Dear IETF Payload WG,

I have uploaded a draft specifying an RTP payload format for TTML Timed Tex=
t https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-sandford-payload-rtp-ttml/

"""
This memo describes a Real-time Transport Protocol (RTP) payload format for=
 TTML, an XML based timed text format for live and file based workflows fro=
m W3C.  This payload format is specifically targeted at live workflows usin=
g TTML.
"""

"""
TTML (Timed Text Markup Language) is a media type for describing timed text=
 such as closed captions (also known as subtitles) in television workflows =
or broadcasts as XML.  This document specifies how TTML should be mapped in=
to an RTP stream in live workflows including, but not restricted to, those =
described in the television broadcast oriented EBU-TT Part 3 specification.
"""

The television broadcast industry is currently progressing towards a future=
 where broadcast facilities are based on IP networks as opposed to the spec=
ialist cabling and equipment currently used. One aspect of this work is the=
 SMPTE2110 family of specifications which specifies, among other things, th=
e use of RTP for audio, video, and other media. Work has previously been do=
ne by Thomas Edwards to provide an RTP profile for carrying ancillary data =
bit streams with maximum interoperability with traditional SDI (Serial Digi=
tal Interface) systems. These bit streams may contain closed captions, timi=
ng information, triggering signals for equipment etc. That work has provide=
d an easy way to transition current data streams to IP in broadcast facilit=
ies. But these data streams still use legacy formats bound by the restricti=
ons of SDI. This new draft specifies a payload to carry a modern timed text=
 format natively over RTP within broadcast facilities.

I would be very grateful if you could review and support this document and =
I look forward to working with the group.

Regards,
James



=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D
James Sandford
R&D Engineer

BBC Research and Development
5th Floor
Dock House
MediaCityUK
Salford
M50 2LH

Tel: 030304 (09549)
Web: http://www.bbc.co.uk/rd



----------------------------

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views which are not the views of the BBC unless specifically stated.
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This e-mail (and any attachments) is confidential and may contain personal =
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If you have received it in error, please delete it from your system.
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--_000_734752AF0E88364D983373FE5CEFED57594A6CDFbgb01xud1001_
Content-Type: text/html; charset="utf-8"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable













Hello,

I've uploaded a new version that hopefully addresses these concerns.&n=
bsp;https://datatracker.=
ietf.org/doc/draft-sandford-payload-rtp-ttml/01/ 







Regards,


James









        &n=
bsp;       

=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D

James Sandford

R&D Engineer



BBC Research and Development

5th Floor

Dock House

MediaCityUK

Salford

M50 2LH



Tel: 030304 (09549)

Web: http://www.bbc.co.uk/rd










From: Roni Even (A) [roni.even@huawei.com=
]

Sent: 20 January 2019 08:09

To: James Sandford; payload@ietf.org

Subject: RE: new draft - RTP Payload for TTML Timed Text












Hi,


Thanks for submitting t=
he document. I did a quick review and the table of content has all the requ=
ired sections


I see that there is int=
erest in this work from the mailing list discussion and new RTP payload is =
in the charter of the WG so we can most probably progress
 the document.


Some comments as WG cha=
ir


 


The IANA section should=
 include the registration template. I looked at the reference to the ttml d=
ocument (https://www.w3.org/TR/ttml-profile-reg=
istry/
 ) and noticed the ttml+xml registration template, this should be in th=
is document, I also expect some more content in section 5 and 6


As for the security con=
sideration, the length field is per packet but I did not see any concerns a=
bout the document size, is it unbound which can cause denial
 of service attack by sending large documents. Please look at RFC8088 (https://tools.ietf.org/html/rfc8088 ) to see how to writ=
e the important specification sections
 in section 7.


 


 


As an individual, I saw=
 some discussion about the clock rate so assume it will be addressed. I not=
iced that the default rate is 1000 yet the example in 7.2.1
 has 90000 so I was also looking for some guidelines about how to select th=
e clock rate.


 


Roni Even



Payload WG co-chair


 


 


 




 






From: payloa=
d [mailto:payload-bounces@ietf.org]
On Behalf Of James Sandford

Sent: Thursday, January 17, 2019 7:40 PM

To: payload@ietf.org

Subject: [payload] new draft - RTP Payload for TTML Timed Text






 




Dear IETF Payload WG,





 






I have uploaded a draft sp=
ecifying an RTP payload format for TTML Timed Text https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-sandfo=
rd-payload-rtp-ttml/






 






"""<=
/p>





This memo describes a Real=
-time Transport Protocol (RTP) payload format for TTML, an XML based t=
imed text format for live and file based workflows from W3C. 
 This payload format is specifically targeted at live workflows using TTML.=







"""<=
/p>





 






"""<=
/p>







TTML (Timed Text Markup La=
nguage) is a media type for describing timed text such as closed capti=
ons (also known as subtitles) in television workflows or broadcasts
 as XML.  This document specifies how TTML should be mapped into an RT=
P stream in live workflows including, but not restricted to, those describe=
d in the television broadcast oriented EBU-TT Part 3 specification.<=
/p>







"""<=
/p>





 






The television broadcast i=
ndustry is currently progressing towards a future where broadcast facilitie=
s are based on IP networks as opposed to the specialist
 cabling and equipment currently used. One aspect of this work is the SMPTE=
2110 family of specifications which specifies, among other things, the use =
of RTP for audio, video, and other media. Work has previously been done by =
Thomas Edwards to provide an RTP
 profile for carrying ancillary data bit streams with maximum interoperabil=
ity with traditional SDI (Serial Digital Interface) systems. These bit stre=
ams may contain closed captions, timing information, triggering signals for=
 equipment etc. That work has provided
 an easy way to transition current data streams to IP in broadcast faciliti=
es. But these data streams still use legacy formats bound by the restrictio=
ns of SDI. This new draft specifies a payload to carry a modern timed text =
format natively over RTP within
 broadcast facilities. 






 






I would be very grateful i=
f you could review and support this document and I look forward to working =
with the group.






 






Regards,






James






 




 








    &n=
bsp;          


=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D

James Sandford

R&D Engineer



BBC Research and Development

5th Floor

Dock House

MediaCityUK

Salford

M50 2LH



Tel: 030304 (09549)

Web: 
http://www.bbc.co.uk/rd














 


-------------------------=
---



http://www.bbc.co.<=
span class=3D"il">uk

This e-mail (and any attachments) is confidential and may contain personal =
views which are not the views of the
BBC unless specifically stated.

If you have received it in error, please delete it from your system.

Do not use, copy or disclose the information in any way nor act in reliance=
 on it and notify the sender immediately.

Please note that the BBC monitors e-mails sent or=
 received.

Further communication will signify your consent to this.


---------------------














 


---------------------------=
-

htt=
p://www.bbc.co.uk
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and=20
may contain personal views which are not the views of the =
BBC unless specifically stated.
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error, please delete it from your system.
Do not use, copy or disclose=
 the=20
information in any way nor act in reliance on it and notify the sender=20
immediately.
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 e-mails=20
sent or received.
Further communication will signify your consent to=20
this.


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