
From wintert@acm.org  Tue Jun  2 10:15:33 2009
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Date: Tue, 02 Jun 2009 13:15:26 -0400
From: Tim Winter <wintert@acm.org>
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Subject: [Roll] DT Update
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WG,

A brief update on how the design team effort is going-

We are proceeding with the approach that routing metrics will be used to
define an underlying gradient, fixed at some root node upon which links
can be oriented and paths constructed.  The root may typically (but not
necessarily always) be an LBR.  The ability to then construct paths
toward a root that minimize cost (i.e. `shortest', `best') provide a simple
way to support a main type of traffic flow (data collection) as called out
in the various application requirements.  We are hashing out remaining
details as to how constraints are best taken into account, e.g. are they
intrinsic in the construction of the gradient(s), or once a gradient is
defined in a way that provides a global reference to the network are the
constrained paths then further defined with reference to the gradient.

We are having further discussion about the mechanisms to be used to support
others of the typical traffic flows within the LLN, in particular the use
and trade-offs of source routing and hop-by-hop routing techniques.

There is a text evolving as the DT efforts proceed, and it is our goal to
be able to give a -00 version for your review and comment in the next few
weeks, such that some input and feedback from the WG may be collected
and incorporated in time for the next IETF.


Regards,

-Tim

From jvasseur@cisco.com  Wed Jun  3 23:28:14 2009
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From: JP Vasseur <jvasseur@cisco.com>
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Subject: [Roll] Draft Agenda for IETF-75
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Dear WG,

We have three major topics to discuss during our next ROLL WG at  
IETF-75. Here is a proposed agenda:

1) Agenda/admin (Chairs - 5mn) [5]

2) WG Status (Chairs - 5 mn) [10]

3) Update on the Routing Metrics document (TBD - 10mn) [25]
  draft-ietf-roll-routing-metrics-01

3) STONES:
draft-dt-roll-routing-protocol-01 (Tim - 90mn) [115]

4) A Security Framework for Routing over Low Power and Lossy Networks
(Tzeta - 35mn) [150]
draft-tsao-roll-security-framework-01

Let me know if you have any comment.

Thanks.

JP.

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Subject: [Roll] I-D Action:draft-ietf-roll-indus-routing-reqs-06.txt
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--NextPart

A New Internet-Draft is available from the on-line Internet-Drafts directories.
This draft is a work item of the Routing Over Low power and Lossy networks Working Group of the IETF.


	Title           : Industrial Routing Requirements in Low Power and Lossy Networks
	Author(s)       : D. Networks, et al.
	Filename        : draft-ietf-roll-indus-routing-reqs-06.txt
	Pages           : 26
	Date            : 2009-06-05

The wide deployment of lower cost wireless devices will significantly
improve the productivity and safety of the plants while increasing
the efficiency of the plant workers by extending the information set
available about the plant operations.  The aim of this document is to
analyze the functional requirements for a routing protocol used in
industrial Low power and Lossy Networks (LLN) of field devices.

A URL for this Internet-Draft is:
http://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-ietf-roll-indus-routing-reqs-06.txt

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From zahariad@teihal.gr  Thu Jun 11 05:42:16 2009
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From: "Theodore Zahariadis" <zahariad@teihal.gr>
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Cc: PANOS TRAKADAS <trakadasp@adae.gr>, Sotiris Maniatis <maniatiss@adae.gr>, Karkazis Panagiotis <karpa@tellas.gr>
Subject: [Roll] Energy Parameter in ROLL routin
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This is a multi-part message in MIME format.

------=_NextPart_000_003C_01C9EAAB.2EA2FAF0
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	boundary="----=_NextPart_001_003D_01C9EAAB.2EA32200"


------=_NextPart_001_003D_01C9EAAB.2EA32200
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Dear all,



Attached please find an informal document showing the energy consumption =


effects in WSN routing.



We have proposed a trust and energy aware routing protocol (ATSR)=20

(included in the ietf draft I have submitted), which succeeds in =
avoiding=20

the malicious nodes (based on the incorporated trust model) and at the=20

same time it decreases the energy consumption of stressed nodes (based=20

on energy knowledge).=20



The simulation results show that significant energy is consumed for =
routing=20

and trust purposes and thus the frequency of exchange of this =
information=20

should be very well considered. Our protocol guides the sensor nodes=20

select for forwarding the neighbour that is not only closer to the =
destination but=20

also has enough remaining energy, leading to better load balancing and =
energy savings.



Looking forward to hearing your comments,



Best Regards,

Theodore





------=_NextPart_001_003D_01C9EAAB.2EA32200
Content-Type: text/html;
	charset="utf-8"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

=EF=BB=BF<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.0 Transitional//EN">
<HTML><HEAD>
<META http-equiv=3DContent-Type content=3D"text/html; charset=3Dutf-8">
<META content=3D"MSHTML 6.00.6001.18248" name=3DGENERATOR>
<STYLE></STYLE>
</HEAD>
<BODY bgColor=3D#ffffff>
<DIV>
<P class=3DMsoNormal=20
style=3D"TEXT-JUSTIFY: inter-ideograph; MARGIN: 0cm 0cm 0pt; TEXT-ALIGN: =
justify"><SPAN=20
lang=3DEN-US style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Times New =
Roman'"><FONT=20
size=3D3>Dear all,</FONT></SPAN></P>
<P class=3DMsoNormal=20
style=3D"TEXT-JUSTIFY: inter-ideograph; MARGIN: 0cm 0cm 0pt; TEXT-ALIGN: =
justify"><SPAN=20
lang=3DEN-US=20
style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Times New =
Roman'"></SPAN>&nbsp;</P>
<P class=3DMsoNormal=20
style=3D"TEXT-JUSTIFY: inter-ideograph; MARGIN: 0cm 0cm 0pt; TEXT-ALIGN: =
justify"><SPAN=20
lang=3DEN-US style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Times New =
Roman'"><FONT=20
size=3D3>Attached please find an informal document showing =
</FONT></SPAN><SPAN=20
lang=3DEN-US style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Times New =
Roman'"><FONT=20
size=3D3>the energy consumption </FONT></SPAN></P>
<P class=3DMsoNormal=20
style=3D"TEXT-JUSTIFY: inter-ideograph; MARGIN: 0cm 0cm 0pt; TEXT-ALIGN: =
justify"><SPAN=20
lang=3DEN-US style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Times New =
Roman'"><FONT=20
size=3D3>effects in WSN routing.</FONT></SPAN></P>
<P class=3DMsoNormal=20
style=3D"TEXT-JUSTIFY: inter-ideograph; MARGIN: 0cm 0cm 0pt; TEXT-ALIGN: =
justify"><SPAN=20
lang=3DEN-US style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Times New =
Roman'"><FONT=20
face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT></SPAN>&nbsp;</P>
<P class=3DMsoNormal=20
style=3D"TEXT-JUSTIFY: inter-ideograph; MARGIN: 0cm 0cm 0pt; TEXT-ALIGN: =
justify"><SPAN=20
lang=3DEN-US style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Times New =
Roman'"><FONT=20
size=3D3>We have proposed a trust and energy aware routing protocol=20
</FONT></SPAN><SPAN lang=3DEN-US=20
style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Times New Roman'"><FONT =
size=3D3>(ATSR)=20
</FONT></SPAN></P>
<P class=3DMsoNormal=20
style=3D"TEXT-JUSTIFY: inter-ideograph; MARGIN: 0cm 0cm 0pt; TEXT-ALIGN: =
justify"><SPAN=20
lang=3DEN-US style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Times New =
Roman'"><FONT=20
size=3D3>(included in the ietf draft I have submitted), which =
</FONT></SPAN><SPAN=20
lang=3DEN-US style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Times New =
Roman'"><FONT=20
size=3D3>succeeds in avoiding </FONT></SPAN></P>
<P class=3DMsoNormal=20
style=3D"TEXT-JUSTIFY: inter-ideograph; MARGIN: 0cm 0cm 0pt; TEXT-ALIGN: =
justify"><SPAN=20
lang=3DEN-US style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Times New =
Roman'"><FONT=20
size=3D3>the malicious nodes (based on the </FONT></SPAN><SPAN =
lang=3DEN-US=20
style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Times New Roman'"><FONT=20
size=3D3>incorporated trust model) and at the </FONT></SPAN></P>
<P class=3DMsoNormal=20
style=3D"TEXT-JUSTIFY: inter-ideograph; MARGIN: 0cm 0cm 0pt; TEXT-ALIGN: =
justify"><SPAN=20
lang=3DEN-US style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Times New =
Roman'"><FONT=20
size=3D3>same time it decreases </FONT></SPAN><SPAN lang=3DEN-US=20
style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Times New Roman'"><FONT =
size=3D3>the energy=20
consumption of stressed nodes (based </FONT></SPAN></P>
<P class=3DMsoNormal=20
style=3D"TEXT-JUSTIFY: inter-ideograph; MARGIN: 0cm 0cm 0pt; TEXT-ALIGN: =
justify"><SPAN=20
lang=3DEN-US style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Times New =
Roman'"><FONT=20
size=3D3>on energy </FONT></SPAN><SPAN lang=3DEN-US=20
style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Times New Roman'"><FONT =
size=3D3>knowledge).=20
</FONT></SPAN></P>
<P class=3DMsoNormal=20
style=3D"TEXT-JUSTIFY: inter-ideograph; MARGIN: 0cm 0cm 0pt; TEXT-ALIGN: =
justify"><SPAN=20
lang=3DEN-US style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Times New =
Roman'"><FONT=20
face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT></SPAN>&nbsp;</P>
<P class=3DMsoNormal=20
style=3D"TEXT-JUSTIFY: inter-ideograph; MARGIN: 0cm 0cm 0pt; TEXT-ALIGN: =
justify"><SPAN=20
lang=3DEN-US style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Times New =
Roman'"><FONT=20
size=3D3>The simulation results show that significant energy is consumed =
for=20
routing </FONT></SPAN></P>
<P class=3DMsoNormal=20
style=3D"TEXT-JUSTIFY: inter-ideograph; MARGIN: 0cm 0cm 0pt; TEXT-ALIGN: =
justify"><SPAN=20
lang=3DEN-US style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Times New =
Roman'"><FONT=20
size=3D3>and trust purposes and thus the frequency of exchange of this =
information=20
</FONT></SPAN></P>
<P class=3DMsoNormal=20
style=3D"TEXT-JUSTIFY: inter-ideograph; MARGIN: 0cm 0cm 0pt; TEXT-ALIGN: =
justify"><SPAN=20
lang=3DEN-US style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Times New =
Roman'"><FONT=20
size=3D3>should be very well considered. Our protocol guides the sensor =
nodes=20
</FONT></SPAN></P>
<P class=3DMsoNormal=20
style=3D"TEXT-JUSTIFY: inter-ideograph; MARGIN: 0cm 0cm 0pt; TEXT-ALIGN: =
justify"><SPAN=20
lang=3DEN-US style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Times New =
Roman'"><FONT=20
size=3D3>select for forwarding the neighbour that is not only closer to =
the=20
destination but </FONT></SPAN></P>
<P class=3DMsoNormal=20
style=3D"TEXT-JUSTIFY: inter-ideograph; MARGIN: 0cm 0cm 0pt; TEXT-ALIGN: =
justify"><SPAN=20
lang=3DEN-US style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Times New =
Roman'"><FONT=20
size=3D3>also has enough remaining energy, leading to better load =
balancing and=20
energy savings.</FONT></SPAN></P>
<P class=3DMsoNormal=20
style=3D"TEXT-JUSTIFY: inter-ideograph; MARGIN: 0cm 0cm 0pt; TEXT-ALIGN: =
justify"><SPAN=20
lang=3DEN-US style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Times New =
Roman'"><FONT=20
face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT></SPAN>&nbsp;</P>
<P class=3DMsoNormal=20
style=3D"TEXT-JUSTIFY: inter-ideograph; MARGIN: 0cm 0cm 0pt; TEXT-ALIGN: =
justify"><SPAN=20
lang=3DEN-US style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Times New =
Roman'"><FONT=20
size=3D3>Looking forward to hearing your comments,</FONT></SPAN></P>
<P class=3DMsoNormal=20
style=3D"TEXT-JUSTIFY: inter-ideograph; MARGIN: 0cm 0cm 0pt; TEXT-ALIGN: =
justify"><SPAN=20
lang=3DEN-US style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Times New =
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face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT></SPAN>&nbsp;</P>
<P class=3DMsoNormal=20
style=3D"TEXT-JUSTIFY: inter-ideograph; MARGIN: 0cm 0cm 0pt; TEXT-ALIGN: =
justify"><SPAN=20
lang=3DEN-US style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Times New =
Roman'"><FONT=20
size=3D3>Best Regards,</FONT></SPAN></P>
<P class=3DMsoNormal=20
style=3D"TEXT-JUSTIFY: inter-ideograph; MARGIN: 0cm 0cm 0pt; TEXT-ALIGN: =
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lang=3DEN-US style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Times New =
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size=3D3>Theodore</FONT></SPAN></P>
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lang=3DEN-US style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Times New =
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face=3DArial></FONT></SPAN>&nbsp;</P>
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face=3DArial></FONT></o:p></SPAN>&nbsp;</P></DIV></BODY></HTML>

------=_NextPart_001_003D_01C9EAAB.2EA32200--

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From jvasseur@cisco.com  Mon Jun 15 02:50:18 2009
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From: JP Vasseur <jvasseur@cisco.com>
To: ROLL WG <roll@ietf.org>
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Subject: [Roll] DT Update
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--Apple-Mail-23-452686750
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Dear WG,

The list has been quiet for the last few weeks, but that won't last ;-)

1) DT Update
Although the plan was indeed to post a first draft in May, I am  
pleased to report a high and productive activity by the DT, which has  
been making significant progress, with hours of discussion every week  
since the last IETF. Instead of rushing out on technical details, the  
idea was to step back, make sure that the requirements were well  
understood, look at architectural decisions, ...
The current plan is as follow:
	* Post a revision -00 by June 27.
	* Please provide some feed-back ASAP
	* That would give us a chance to post another revision before the cut- 
off date for this IETF

As a reminder,
	* Nothing will be fully baked of course and help from everyone will  
be extremely welcome
	* At this point, this is just an independent submission.

2) Security
As you know security is of utmost importance, and we have 2 individual  
submissions so far, none of which has been discussed so far in WG  
meetings.
The good news is that we have requested to have a security expert  
appointed to the WG to help us out. Thanks Adrian for helping here.  
The security expert should be named fairly soon.

Thanks.

JP.
--Apple-Mail-23-452686750
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<html><body style=3D"word-wrap: break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; =
-webkit-line-break: after-white-space; ">Dear WG,<div><br></div><div>The =
list has been quiet for the last few weeks, but that won't last =
;-)</div><div><br></div><div><b>1) DT Update</b></div><div>Although the =
plan was indeed to post a first draft in May, I am pleased to report a =
high and productive activity by the DT, which has been making =
significant progress, with hours of discussion every week since the last =
IETF. Instead of rushing out on technical details, the idea was to step =
back, make sure that the requirements were well understood, look at =
architectural decisions, ...</div><div>The current plan is as =
follow:</div><div><span class=3D"Apple-tab-span" =
style=3D"white-space:pre">	</span>* Post a revision -00 by June =
27.<br></div><div><span class=3D"Apple-tab-span" =
style=3D"white-space:pre"><b>	</b></span><b>* Please provide some =
feed-back ASAP<br></b></div><div><span class=3D"Apple-tab-span" =
style=3D"white-space:pre">	</span>* That would give us a chance to =
post another revision before the cut-off date for this =
IETF<br></div><div><br></div><div>As a reminder,&nbsp;</div><div><span =
class=3D"Apple-tab-span" style=3D"white-space:pre"><b>	</b></span><b>* =
Nothing will be fully baked of course and help from everyone will be =
extremely welcome<br></b></div><div><span class=3D"Apple-tab-span" =
style=3D"white-space:pre">	</span>* At this point, this is just an =
independent submission.<br></div><div><br></div><div><b>2) =
Security</b></div><div>As you know security is of utmost importance, and =
we have 2 individual submissions so far, none of which has been =
discussed so far in WG meetings.</div><div>The good news is that we have =
requested to have a security expert appointed to the WG to help us out. =
Thanks Adrian for helping here. The security expert should be named =
fairly =
soon.</div><div><br></div><div>Thanks.</div><div><br></div><div>JP.</div>
</body></html>=

--Apple-Mail-23-452686750--

From jvasseur@cisco.com  Sun Jun 21 21:56:21 2009
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Subject: [Roll] Security Advisor for the ROLL WG
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Dear WG,

I have the pleasure to announce that Rene accepted to help us as  
Security Advisor. As you know security is one of our top priorities  
and his help will be more than welcome. Rene has been exposed to our  
"World" for quite some time, which will obviously help. Thanks to  
Adrian and the Security ADs (Tim and Pasi).

Thanks again Rene.

JP.

From jvasseur@cisco.com  Mon Jun 22 02:05:12 2009
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From: JP Vasseur <jvasseur@cisco.com>
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Subject: Re: [Roll] Security Advisor for the ROLL WG
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Sorry I forgot to mention Rene's last nane: Rene Struik.

Thanks.

JP.

On Jun 22, 2009, at 6:56 AM, JP Vasseur wrote:

> Dear WG,
>
> I have the pleasure to announce that Rene accepted to help us as  
> Security Advisor. As you know security is one of our top priorities  
> and his help will be more than welcome. Rene has been exposed to our  
> "World" for quite some time, which will obviously help. Thanks to  
> Adrian and the Security ADs (Tim and Pasi).
>
> Thanks again Rene.
>
> JP.
> _______________________________________________
> Roll mailing list
> Roll@ietf.org
> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/roll


From zahariad@teihal.gr  Mon Jun 22 03:30:39 2009
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From: "Theodore Zahariadis" <zahariad@teihal.gr>
To: "Goindi, Manhar" <Manhar.Goindi@landisgyr.com>
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Cc: roll@ietf.org
Subject: Re: [Roll] Energy Parameter in ROLL routin
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Dear Manhar,

We describe it at the following draft:
http://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-zahariad-roll-trust-framework-00

We look forward to hear any news or comments from you.

Best Regards,
Theodore Zahariadis

  ----- Original Message -----=20
  From: Goindi, Manhar=20
  To: Theodore Zahariadis=20
  Sent: Monday, June 22, 2009 1:05 PM
  Subject: RE: [Roll] Energy Parameter in ROLL routin


  Dear Mr. Theodore,

  =20

  Thanks a lot for sharing the document as it provided a very =
interesting reading.

  =20

  I also enjoyed reading about the Secure Routing Protocol in Section 1 =
of the same document.

  =20

  I am really sorry about this but I wish to inquire if there is any =
draft which describes this routing protocol in further detail.

  =20

  I already referenced the link:  =
http://www.ietf.org/html.charters/roll-charter.html but could not find =
any such document there.

  =20

  =20

  Thanks & Best Regards,

  Manhar Goindi




  Manhar Goindi
  Technical Expert
  Landis+Gyr       =20

  Phone: +91 120 3352149
  manhar.goindi@landisgyr.com
  www.landisgyr.com

  manage energy better


  From: roll-bounces@ietf.org [mailto:roll-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf =
Of Theodore Zahariadis
  Sent: Thursday, June 11, 2009 6:12 PM
  To: roll@ietf.org
  Cc: PANOS TRAKADAS; Sotiris Maniatis; Karkazis Panagiotis
  Subject: [Roll] Energy Parameter in ROLL routin

  =20

  Dear all,

  =20

  Attached please find an informal document showing the energy =
consumption=20

  effects in WSN routing.

  =20

  We have proposed a trust and energy aware routing protocol (ATSR)=20

  (included in the ietf draft I have submitted), which succeeds in =
avoiding=20

  the malicious nodes (based on the incorporated trust model) and at the =


  same time it decreases the energy consumption of stressed nodes (based =


  on energy knowledge).=20

  =20

  The simulation results show that significant energy is consumed for =
routing=20

  and trust purposes and thus the frequency of exchange of this =
information=20

  should be very well considered. Our protocol guides the sensor nodes=20

  select for forwarding the neighbour that is not only closer to the =
destination but=20

  also has enough remaining energy, leading to better load balancing and =
energy savings.

  =20

  Looking forward to hearing your comments,

  =20

  Best Regards,

  Theodore

  =20

  =20



  P PLEASE CONSIDER OUR ENVIRONMENT BEFORE PRINTING THIS EMAIL.

  This e-mail (including any attachments) is confidential and may be =
legally privileged. If you are not an intended recipient or an =
authorized representative of an intended recipient, you are prohibited =
from using, copying or distributing the information in this e-mail or =
its attachments. If you have received this e-mail in error, please =
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<BODY lang=3DEN-US vLink=3Dpurple link=3Dblue bgColor=3Dwhite>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Dear Manhar,</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>We describe it at the following =
draft:</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2><A=20
href=3D"http://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-zahariad-roll-trust-framework-00=
">http://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-zahariad-roll-trust-framework-00</A></=
FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>We look forward to hear any news or =
comments from=20
you.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Best Regards,</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Theodore Zahariadis</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE dir=3Dltr=20
style=3D"PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; =
BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px solid; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">
  <DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial">----- Original Message ----- </DIV>
  <DIV=20
  style=3D"BACKGROUND: #e4e4e4; FONT: 10pt arial; font-color: =
black"><B>From:</B>=20
  <A title=3DManhar.Goindi@landisgyr.com=20
  href=3D"mailto:Manhar.Goindi@landisgyr.com">Goindi, Manhar</A> </DIV>
  <DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial"><B>To:</B> <A =
title=3Dzahariad@teihal.gr=20
  href=3D"mailto:zahariad@teihal.gr">Theodore Zahariadis</A> </DIV>
  <DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Sent:</B> Monday, June 22, 2009 =
1:05 PM</DIV>
  <DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Subject:</B> RE: [Roll] Energy =
Parameter in=20
  ROLL routin</DIV>
  <DIV><BR></DIV><!--ppd1000035--><!--ppd1000052-->
  <DIV class=3DSection1>
  <P class=3DMsoNormal><SPAN=20
  style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 11pt; COLOR: #1f497d; FONT-FAMILY: =
'Calibri','sans-serif'">Dear=20
  Mr. Theodore,<o:p></o:p></SPAN></P>
  <P class=3DMsoNormal><SPAN=20
  style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 11pt; COLOR: #1f497d; FONT-FAMILY: =
'Calibri','sans-serif'"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></SPAN></P>
  <P class=3DMsoNormal><SPAN=20
  style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 11pt; COLOR: #1f497d; FONT-FAMILY: =
'Calibri','sans-serif'">Thanks=20
  a lot for sharing the document as it provided a very interesting=20
  reading.<o:p></o:p></SPAN></P>
  <P class=3DMsoNormal><SPAN=20
  style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 11pt; COLOR: #1f497d; FONT-FAMILY: =
'Calibri','sans-serif'"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></SPAN></P>
  <P class=3DMsoNormal><SPAN=20
  style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 11pt; COLOR: #1f497d; FONT-FAMILY: =
'Calibri','sans-serif'">I=20
  also enjoyed reading about the Secure Routing Protocol in Section 1 of =
the=20
  same document.<o:p></o:p></SPAN></P>
  <P class=3DMsoNormal><SPAN=20
  style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 11pt; COLOR: #1f497d; FONT-FAMILY: =
'Calibri','sans-serif'"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></SPAN></P>
  <P class=3DMsoNormal><SPAN=20
  style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 11pt; COLOR: #1f497d; FONT-FAMILY: =
'Calibri','sans-serif'">I=20
  am really sorry about this but I wish to inquire if there is any draft =
which=20
  describes this routing protocol in further =
detail.<o:p></o:p></SPAN></P>
  <P class=3DMsoNormal><SPAN=20
  style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 11pt; COLOR: #1f497d; FONT-FAMILY: =
'Calibri','sans-serif'"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></SPAN></P>
  <P class=3DMsoPlainText><SPAN=20
  style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 11pt; COLOR: #1f497d; FONT-FAMILY: =
'Calibri','sans-serif'">I=20
  already referenced the link:&nbsp; </SPAN><A=20
  =
href=3D"http://www.ietf.org/html.charters/roll-charter.html">http://www.i=
etf.org/html.charters/roll-charter.html</A>=20
  but could not find any such document there.<o:p></o:p></P>
  <P class=3DMsoNormal><SPAN=20
  style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 11pt; COLOR: #1f497d; FONT-FAMILY: =
'Calibri','sans-serif'"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></SPAN></P>
  <P class=3DMsoNormal><SPAN=20
  style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 11pt; COLOR: #1f497d; FONT-FAMILY: =
'Calibri','sans-serif'"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></SPAN></P>
  <P class=3DMsoNormal><SPAN=20
  style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 11pt; COLOR: #1f497d; FONT-FAMILY: =
'Calibri','sans-serif'">Thanks=20
  &amp; Best Regards,<o:p></o:p></SPAN></P>
  <P class=3DMsoNormal><SPAN=20
  style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 11pt; COLOR: #1f497d; FONT-FAMILY: =
'Calibri','sans-serif'">Manhar=20
  Goindi<o:p></o:p></SPAN></P>
  <DIV><BR><BR>
  <DIV align=3Dleft><FONT face=3DTahoma size=3D2><STRONG>Manhar=20
  Goindi</STRONG><BR>Technical=20
  =
Expert<BR>Landis+Gyr&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;<BR><=
/FONT></DIV>
  <DIV align=3Dleft><FONT face=3DTahoma size=3D2>Phone: +91 120 =
3352149</FONT><SPAN=20
  lang=3DEN-US=20
  style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 9pt; FONT-FAMILY: Arial; mso-bidi-font-size: =
9.0pt; mso-fareast-font-family: 'Arial'; mso-bidi-font-family: 'Arial'; =
mso-ansi-language: EN-US; mso-fareast-language: EN-US; =
mso-bidi-language: AR-SA"><FONT=20
  face=3DTahoma size=3D2></FONT></SPAN></DIV>
  <DIV align=3Dleft><SPAN lang=3DEN-US=20
  style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 9pt; FONT-FAMILY: Arial; mso-bidi-font-size: =
9.0pt; mso-fareast-font-family: 'Arial'; mso-bidi-font-family: 'Arial'; =
mso-ansi-language: EN-US; mso-fareast-language: EN-US; =
mso-bidi-language: AR-SA"><A=20
  title=3D"" href=3D"mailto:Manhar.Goindi@landisgyr.com"><FONT =
face=3DTahoma=20
  size=3D2>manhar.goindi@landisgyr.com</FONT></A><BR></SPAN><A =
title=3D""=20
  href=3D"http://www.landisgyr.com/"><FONT face=3DTahoma size=3D2><A=20
  href=3D"http://www.landisgyr.com/">www.landisgyr.com<BR></A><FONT =
face=3DTahoma=20
  size=3D1><BR></A><FONT face=3DArial color=3D#bad405><STRONG><FONT =
face=3DTahoma=20
  size=3D2>manage energy=20
  better</FONT></STRONG></A><BR><BR></DIV></FONT></FONT></FONT>
  <DIV=20
  style=3D"BORDER-RIGHT: medium none; PADDING-RIGHT: 0in; BORDER-TOP: =
#b5c4df 1pt solid; PADDING-LEFT: 0in; PADDING-BOTTOM: 0in; BORDER-LEFT: =
medium none; PADDING-TOP: 3pt; BORDER-BOTTOM: medium none">
  <P class=3DMsoNormal><B><SPAN=20
  style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: =
'Tahoma','sans-serif'">From:</SPAN></B><SPAN=20
  style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Tahoma','sans-serif'">=20
  roll-bounces@ietf.org [mailto:roll-bounces@ietf.org] <B>On Behalf Of=20
  </B>Theodore Zahariadis<BR><B>Sent:</B> Thursday, June 11, 2009 6:12=20
  PM<BR><B>To:</B> roll@ietf.org<BR><B>Cc:</B> PANOS TRAKADAS; Sotiris =
Maniatis;=20
  Karkazis Panagiotis<BR><B>Subject:</B> [Roll] Energy Parameter in ROLL =

  routin<o:p></o:p></SPAN></P></DIV></DIV>
  <P class=3DMsoNormal><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></P>
  <DIV>
  <P class=3DMsoNormal style=3D"TEXT-ALIGN: justify">Dear =
all,<o:p></o:p></P>
  <P class=3DMsoNormal style=3D"TEXT-ALIGN: =
justify">&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></P>
  <P class=3DMsoNormal style=3D"TEXT-ALIGN: justify">Attached please =
find an=20
  informal document showing the energy consumption <o:p></o:p></P>
  <P class=3DMsoNormal style=3D"TEXT-ALIGN: justify">effects in WSN=20
  routing.<o:p></o:p></P>
  <P class=3DMsoNormal style=3D"TEXT-ALIGN: =
justify">&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></P>
  <P class=3DMsoNormal style=3D"TEXT-ALIGN: justify">We have proposed a =
trust and=20
  energy aware routing protocol (ATSR) <o:p></o:p></P>
  <P class=3DMsoNormal style=3D"TEXT-ALIGN: justify">(included in the =
ietf draft I=20
  have submitted), which succeeds in avoiding <o:p></o:p></P>
  <P class=3DMsoNormal style=3D"TEXT-ALIGN: justify">the malicious nodes =
(based on=20
  the incorporated trust model) and at the <o:p></o:p></P>
  <P class=3DMsoNormal style=3D"TEXT-ALIGN: justify">same time it =
decreases the=20
  energy consumption of stressed nodes (based <o:p></o:p></P>
  <P class=3DMsoNormal style=3D"TEXT-ALIGN: justify">on energy =
knowledge).=20
  <o:p></o:p></P>
  <P class=3DMsoNormal style=3D"TEXT-ALIGN: =
justify">&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></P>
  <P class=3DMsoNormal style=3D"TEXT-ALIGN: justify">The simulation =
results show=20
  that significant energy is consumed for routing <o:p></o:p></P>
  <P class=3DMsoNormal style=3D"TEXT-ALIGN: justify">and trust purposes =
and thus the=20
  frequency of exchange of this information <o:p></o:p></P>
  <P class=3DMsoNormal style=3D"TEXT-ALIGN: justify">should be very well =
considered.=20
  Our protocol guides the sensor nodes <o:p></o:p></P>
  <P class=3DMsoNormal style=3D"TEXT-ALIGN: justify">select for =
forwarding the=20
  neighbour that is not only closer to the destination but =
<o:p></o:p></P>
  <P class=3DMsoNormal style=3D"TEXT-ALIGN: justify">also has enough =
remaining=20
  energy, leading to better load balancing and energy =
savings.<o:p></o:p></P>
  <P class=3DMsoNormal style=3D"TEXT-ALIGN: =
justify">&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></P>
  <P class=3DMsoNormal style=3D"TEXT-ALIGN: justify">Looking forward to =
hearing your=20
  comments,<o:p></o:p></P>
  <P class=3DMsoNormal style=3D"TEXT-ALIGN: =
justify">&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></P>
  <P class=3DMsoNormal style=3D"TEXT-ALIGN: justify">Best =
Regards,<o:p></o:p></P>
  <P class=3DMsoNormal style=3D"TEXT-ALIGN: =
justify">Theodore<o:p></o:p></P>
  <P class=3DMsoNormal style=3D"TEXT-ALIGN: =
justify">&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></P>
  <P class=3DMsoNormal style=3D"TEXT-ALIGN: justify">&nbsp;<SPAN=20
  style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt"><o:p></o:p></SPAN></P></DIV></DIV><BR>
  <P><FONT face=3DTahoma><FONT color=3Dgreen size=3D2><STRONG><FONT =
face=3DWebdings=20
  size=3D5>P</FONT>&nbsp;<FONT size=3D1>PLEASE CONSIDER OUR ENVIRONMENT =
BEFORE=20
  PRINTING THIS EMAIL.<BR></FONT></STRONG></FONT></FONT><FONT=20
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  the sender immediately by return e-mail and delete all copies of this =
message=20
  and any attachments. Thank =
you.</FONT></FONT></P></BLOCKQUOTE></BODY></HTML>

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From Manhar.Goindi@landisgyr.com  Mon Jun 22 19:34:29 2009
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From: "Goindi, Manhar" <Manhar.Goindi@landisgyr.com>
To: "Theodore Zahariadis" <zahariad@teihal.gr>
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Subject: Re: [Roll] Energy Parameter in ROLL routin
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Dear Mr. Theodore,

 

Thanks a lot!

 

I did get a chance to look the draft describing the protocol.  It is a
very good protocol to account for trusted nodes and not use malicious
node for routing/forwarding packets.

 

I just have a query - is it possible to also use some sort of energy
metrics on similar basis to route packets based on left over energy in
nodes?  Presently this protocol is independent from that and might have
to be enhanced from that perspective.

 

 

Thanks & Best Regards,

Manhar Goindi

From: roll-bounces@ietf.org [mailto:roll-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of
Theodore Zahariadis
Sent: Monday, June 22, 2009 4:00 PM
To: Goindi, Manhar
Cc: roll@ietf.org
Subject: Re: [Roll] Energy Parameter in ROLL routin

 

Dear Manhar,

 

We describe it at the following draft:

http://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-zahariad-roll-trust-framework-00

 

We look forward to hear any news or comments from you.

 

Best Regards,

Theodore Zahariadis

 

	

Manhar Goindi
Technical Expert
Phone: +91 120 3352149

----- Original Message ----- 

	From: Goindi, Manhar <mailto:Manhar.Goindi@landisgyr.com>  

	To: Theodore Zahariadis <mailto:zahariad@teihal.gr>  

	Sent: Monday, June 22, 2009 1:05 PM

	Subject: RE: [Roll] Energy Parameter in ROLL routin

	 

	Dear Mr. Theodore,

	 

	Thanks a lot for sharing the document as it provided a very
interesting reading.

	 

	I also enjoyed reading about the Secure Routing Protocol in
Section 1 of the same document.

	 

	I am really sorry about this but I wish to inquire if there is
any draft which describes this routing protocol in further detail.

	 

	I already referenced the link:
http://www.ietf.org/html.charters/roll-charter.html but could not find
any such document there.

	 

	 

	Thanks & Best Regards,

	Manhar Goindi

	 

	Manhar Goindi
	Technical Expert
	Landis+Gyr        

	Phone: +91 120 3352149

	manhar.goindi@landisgyr.com <mailto:Manhar.Goindi@landisgyr.com>

	www.landisgyr.com
	<http://www.landisgyr.com/> 
	manage energy better

	From: roll-bounces@ietf.org [mailto:roll-bounces@ietf.org] On
Behalf Of Theodore Zahariadis
	Sent: Thursday, June 11, 2009 6:12 PM
	To: roll@ietf.org
	Cc: PANOS TRAKADAS; Sotiris Maniatis; Karkazis Panagiotis
	Subject: [Roll] Energy Parameter in ROLL routin

	 

	Dear all,

	 

	Attached please find an informal document showing the energy
consumption 

	effects in WSN routing.

	 

	We have proposed a trust and energy aware routing protocol
(ATSR) 

	(included in the ietf draft I have submitted), which succeeds in
avoiding 

	the malicious nodes (based on the incorporated trust model) and
at the 

	same time it decreases the energy consumption of stressed nodes
(based 

	on energy knowledge). 

	 

	The simulation results show that significant energy is consumed
for routing 

	and trust purposes and thus the frequency of exchange of this
information 

	should be very well considered. Our protocol guides the sensor
nodes 

	select for forwarding the neighbour that is not only closer to
the destination but 

	also has enough remaining energy, leading to better load
balancing and energy savings.

	 

	Looking forward to hearing your comments,

	 

	Best Regards,

	Theodore

	 

	 

	 

	P PLEASE CONSIDER OUR ENVIRONMENT BEFORE PRINTING THIS EMAIL.
	
	This e-mail (including any attachments) is confidential and may
be legally privileged. If you are not an intended recipient or an
authorized representative of an intended recipient, you are prohibited
from using, copying or distributing the information in this e-mail or
its attachments. If you have received this e-mail in error, please
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this message and any attachments. Thank you.


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vlink=3Dpurple><!--ppd1000055-->

<div class=3DSection1>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'>Dear Mr. Theodore,<o:p></o:p></span></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'>Thanks a lot!<o:p></o:p></span></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'>I did get a chance to look the draft describing the
protocol.&nbsp; It is a very good protocol to account for trusted nodes =
and not
use malicious node for routing/forwarding packets.<o:p></o:p></span></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'>I just have a query &#8211; is it possible to also use =
some sort
of energy metrics on similar basis to route packets based on left over =
energy
in nodes?&nbsp; Presently this protocol is independent from that and =
might have
to be enhanced from that perspective.<o:p></o:p></span></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'>Thanks &amp; Best Regards,<o:p></o:p></span></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'>Manhar Goindi<o:p></o:p></span></p>

<div>

<BR><BR><DIV align=3Dleft><FONT face=3DTahoma size=3D2><STRONG>Manhar =
Goindi</STRONG><BR>Technical Expert<BR>Phone: +91 120 =
3352149<BR></FONT></DIV><BR></FONT></FONT></FONT><div =
style=3D'border:none;border-top:solid #B5C4DF 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in =
0in 0in'>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><b><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'>From:</span>=
</b><span
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'> =
roll-bounces@ietf.org
[mailto:roll-bounces@ietf.org] <b>On Behalf Of </b>Theodore =
Zahariadis<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Monday, June 22, 2009 4:00 PM<br>
<b>To:</b> Goindi, Manhar<br>
<b>Cc:</b> roll@ietf.org<br>
<b>Subject:</b> Re: [Roll] Energy Parameter in ROLL =
routin<o:p></o:p></span></p>

</div>

</div>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>

<div>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'>Dear
Manhar,</span><o:p></o:p></p>

</div>

<div>

<p class=3DMsoNormal>&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></p>

</div>

<div>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'>We
describe it at the following draft:</span><o:p></o:p></p>

</div>

<div>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'><a
href=3D"http://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-zahariad-roll-trust-framework-00=
">http://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-zahariad-roll-trust-framework-00</a></=
span><o:p></o:p></p>

</div>

<div>

<p class=3DMsoNormal>&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></p>

</div>

<div>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'>We
look forward to hear any news or comments from =
you.</span><o:p></o:p></p>

</div>

<div>

<p class=3DMsoNormal>&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></p>

</div>

<div>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'>Best
Regards,</span><o:p></o:p></p>

</div>

<div>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'>Theodore
Zahariadis</span><o:p></o:p></p>

</div>

<div>

<p class=3DMsoNormal>&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></p>

</div>

<blockquote style=3D'border:none;border-left:solid black =
1.5pt;padding:0in 0in 0in 4.0pt;
margin-left:3.75pt;margin-top:5.0pt;margin-right:0in;margin-bottom:5.0pt'=
>

<div>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'>-----
Original Message ----- <o:p></o:p></span></p>

</div>

<div>

<p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'background:#E4E4E4'><b><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'>From:</span></b><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'> <a =
href=3D"mailto:Manhar.Goindi@landisgyr.com"
title=3D"Manhar.Goindi@landisgyr.com">Goindi, Manhar</a> =
<o:p></o:p></span></p>

</div>

<div>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><b><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'>To:</span></b=
><span
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'> <a
href=3D"mailto:zahariad@teihal.gr" title=3D"zahariad@teihal.gr">Theodore =
Zahariadis</a>
<o:p></o:p></span></p>

</div>

<div>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><b><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'>Sent:</span><=
/b><span
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'> Monday, =
June 22,
2009 1:05 PM<o:p></o:p></span></p>

</div>

<div>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><b><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'>Subject:</spa=
n></b><span
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'> RE: [Roll] =
Energy
Parameter in ROLL routin<o:p></o:p></span></p>

</div>

<div>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>

</div>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'>Dear Mr. Theodore,<o:p></o:p></span></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'>Thanks a lot for sharing the document as it provided a =
very
interesting reading.<o:p></o:p></span></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'>I also enjoyed reading about the Secure Routing Protocol =
in
Section 1 of the same document.<o:p></o:p></span></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'>I am really sorry about this but I wish to inquire if =
there is
any draft which describes this routing protocol in further =
detail.<o:p></o:p></span></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'>I already referenced the link:&nbsp; </span><a
href=3D"http://www.ietf.org/html.charters/roll-charter.html">http://www.i=
etf.org/html.charters/roll-charter.html</a>
but could not find any such document there.<o:p></o:p></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'>Thanks &amp; Best Regards,<o:p></o:p></span></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'>Manhar Goindi<o:p></o:p></span></p>

<div>

<p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-bottom:12.0pt'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><strong><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'>Manhar
Goindi</span></strong><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'><br>
Technical Expert<br>
Landis+Gyr&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;</span><o:p></o=
:p></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'>Phone:
+91 120 3352149</span><o:p></o:p></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'margin-bottom:12.0pt'><span =
style=3D'font-size:9.0pt;
font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'><a =
href=3D"mailto:Manhar.Goindi@landisgyr.com"
title=3D""><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'>manhar.goind=
i@landisgyr.com</span></a><br>
</span><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'><a
href=3D"http://www.landisgyr.com/">www.landisgyr.com<br>
</a></span><span =
style=3D'font-size:7.5pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'><br>
</span><strong><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif";
color:#BAD405'>manage energy better</span></strong><span =
style=3D'font-size:7.5pt;
font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:#BAD405'><o:p></o:p></span></p>

<div style=3D'border:none;border-top:solid #B5C4DF 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt =
0in 0in 0in'>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><b><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'>From:</span>=
</b><span
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'> =
roll-bounces@ietf.org
[mailto:roll-bounces@ietf.org] <b>On Behalf Of </b>Theodore =
Zahariadis<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Thursday, June 11, 2009 6:12 PM<br>
<b>To:</b> roll@ietf.org<br>
<b>Cc:</b> PANOS TRAKADAS; Sotiris Maniatis; Karkazis Panagiotis<br>
<b>Subject:</b> [Roll] Energy Parameter in ROLL =
routin<o:p></o:p></span></p>

</div>

</div>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>

<div>

<p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'text-align:justify'>Dear =
all,<o:p></o:p></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'text-align:justify'>&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'text-align:justify'>Attached please find =
an informal
document showing the energy consumption <o:p></o:p></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'text-align:justify'>effects in WSN =
routing.<o:p></o:p></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'text-align:justify'>&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'text-align:justify'>We have proposed a =
trust and
energy aware routing protocol (ATSR) <o:p></o:p></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'text-align:justify'>(included in the ietf =
draft I
have submitted), which succeeds in avoiding <o:p></o:p></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'text-align:justify'>the malicious nodes =
(based on the
incorporated trust model) and at the <o:p></o:p></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'text-align:justify'>same time it decreases =
the energy
consumption of stressed nodes (based <o:p></o:p></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'text-align:justify'>on energy knowledge). =
<o:p></o:p></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'text-align:justify'>&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'text-align:justify'>The simulation results =
show that
significant energy is consumed for routing <o:p></o:p></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'text-align:justify'>and trust purposes and =
thus the
frequency of exchange of this information <o:p></o:p></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'text-align:justify'>should be very well =
considered.
Our protocol guides the sensor nodes <o:p></o:p></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'text-align:justify'>select for forwarding =
the
neighbour that is not only closer to the destination but <o:p></o:p></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'text-align:justify'>also has enough =
remaining energy,
leading to better load balancing and energy savings.<o:p></o:p></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'text-align:justify'>&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'text-align:justify'>Looking forward to =
hearing your
comments,<o:p></o:p></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'text-align:justify'>&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'text-align:justify'>Best =
Regards,<o:p></o:p></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'text-align:justify'>Theodore<o:p></o:p></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'text-align:justify'>&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'text-align:justify'>&nbsp;<span =
style=3D'font-size:
10.0pt'><o:p></o:p></span></p>

</div>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>

<p><strong><span =
style=3D'font-size:18.0pt;font-family:Webdings;color:green'>P</span></str=
ong><strong><span
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif";color:green'>=
&nbsp;</span></strong><strong><span
style=3D'font-size:7.5pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif";color:green'>P=
LEASE
CONSIDER OUR ENVIRONMENT BEFORE PRINTING THIS =
EMAIL.</span></strong><b><span
style=3D'font-size:7.5pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif";color:green'><=
br>
</span></b><span style=3D'font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'><br>
</span><span =
style=3D'font-size:7.5pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'>This
e-mail (including any attachments) is confidential and may be legally
privileged. If you are not an intended recipient or an authorized
representative of an intended recipient, you are prohibited from using, =
copying
or distributing the information in this e-mail or its attachments. If =
you have
received this e-mail in error, please notify the sender immediately by =
return
e-mail and delete all copies of this message and any attachments. Thank =
you.</span><o:p></o:p></p>

</blockquote>

</div>

</body>

</html>

------_=_NextPart_001_01C9F3AB.257EBB33--

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From: "Theodore Zahariadis" <zahariad@teihal.gr>
To: "Goindi, Manhar" <Manhar.Goindi@landisgyr.com>
References: <E0F3E2E8982741B5814E1AE7C544C9D4@sVAIO><A876246C13ACAF4AAA554580750C949C61834F@ausyd02.ap.bm.net> <35DAFED16D2344F1B73B1B44485AA075@sVAIO> <A876246C13ACAF4AAA554580750C949C618416@ausyd02.ap.bm.net>
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Date: Tue, 23 Jun 2009 09:01:45 +0300
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Cc: roll@ietf.org
Subject: Re: [Roll] Energy Parameter in ROLL routin
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Dear Manhar,

We have already done some work on this direction.=20
Actually the trust protocol has already been extended
with another metric, which describes the remaining energy=20
at the node. Energy value may be another parameter=20
distributed via beacons.

By using a weight factor for the remaining energy value, you=20
may select if you would like to have the protocol more energy=20
aware or more secure.


We have recently submitted a paper (still under evaluation), where=20
you may find the following text:


=B7         Remaining Energy: Systematically selecting a highly trusted =
node for forwarding the packets may lead to the exhaustion of its =
energy. Additionally, fixed traffic flows are vulnerable to traffic =
analysis attacks. In this view, we have enriched our trust model with =
energy information. In our novel routing protocol, the basic routing =
message indicating the node availability and position (the Beacon =
message defined in all location-based routing protocols) is extended to =
include the "remaining energy" field of the source node based on which =
the energy-knowledge is built. Although it is possible to infer the =
remaining energy of a neighboring node counting the interactions it has =
been involved in ([21]), their implementation consumes significant =
processing power.=20



Best Regards,
Theodore





  ----- Original Message -----=20
  From: Goindi, Manhar=20
  To: Theodore Zahariadis=20
  Cc: roll@ietf.org=20
  Sent: Tuesday, June 23, 2009 5:34 AM
  Subject: RE: [Roll] Energy Parameter in ROLL routin


  Dear Mr. Theodore,

  =20

  Thanks a lot!

  =20

  I did get a chance to look the draft describing the protocol.  It is a =
very good protocol to account for trusted nodes and not use malicious =
node for routing/forwarding packets.

  =20

  I just have a query - is it possible to also use some sort of energy =
metrics on similar basis to route packets based on left over energy in =
nodes?  Presently this protocol is independent from that and might have =
to be enhanced from that perspective.

  =20

  =20

  Thanks & Best Regards,

  Manhar Goindi




  Manhar Goindi
  Technical Expert
  Phone: +91 120 3352149



  From: roll-bounces@ietf.org [mailto:roll-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf =
Of Theodore Zahariadis
  Sent: Monday, June 22, 2009 4:00 PM
  To: Goindi, Manhar
  Cc: roll@ietf.org
  Subject: Re: [Roll] Energy Parameter in ROLL routin

  =20

  Dear Manhar,

  =20

  We describe it at the following draft:

  http://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-zahariad-roll-trust-framework-00

  =20

  We look forward to hear any news or comments from you.

  =20

  Best Regards,

  Theodore Zahariadis

  =20

    ----- Original Message -----=20

    From: Goindi, Manhar=20

    To: Theodore Zahariadis=20

    Sent: Monday, June 22, 2009 1:05 PM

    Subject: RE: [Roll] Energy Parameter in ROLL routin

    =20

    Dear Mr. Theodore,

    =20

    Thanks a lot for sharing the document as it provided a very =
interesting reading.

    =20

    I also enjoyed reading about the Secure Routing Protocol in Section =
1 of the same document.

    =20

    I am really sorry about this but I wish to inquire if there is any =
draft which describes this routing protocol in further detail.

    =20

    I already referenced the link:  =
http://www.ietf.org/html.charters/roll-charter.html but could not find =
any such document there.

    =20

    =20

    Thanks & Best Regards,

    Manhar Goindi

    =20

    Manhar Goindi
    Technical Expert
    Landis+Gyr       =20

    Phone: +91 120 3352149

    manhar.goindi@landisgyr.com
    www.landisgyr.com

    manage energy better

    From: roll-bounces@ietf.org [mailto:roll-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf =
Of Theodore Zahariadis
    Sent: Thursday, June 11, 2009 6:12 PM
    To: roll@ietf.org
    Cc: PANOS TRAKADAS; Sotiris Maniatis; Karkazis Panagiotis
    Subject: [Roll] Energy Parameter in ROLL routin

    =20

    Dear all,

    =20

    Attached please find an informal document showing the energy =
consumption=20

    effects in WSN routing.

    =20

    We have proposed a trust and energy aware routing protocol (ATSR)=20

    (included in the ietf draft I have submitted), which succeeds in =
avoiding=20

    the malicious nodes (based on the incorporated trust model) and at =
the=20

    same time it decreases the energy consumption of stressed nodes =
(based=20

    on energy knowledge).=20

    =20

    The simulation results show that significant energy is consumed for =
routing=20

    and trust purposes and thus the frequency of exchange of this =
information=20

    should be very well considered. Our protocol guides the sensor nodes =


    select for forwarding the neighbour that is not only closer to the =
destination but=20

    also has enough remaining energy, leading to better load balancing =
and energy savings.

    =20

    Looking forward to hearing your comments,

    =20

    Best Regards,

    Theodore

    =20

    =20

    =20

    P PLEASE CONSIDER OUR ENVIRONMENT BEFORE PRINTING THIS EMAIL.

    This e-mail (including any attachments) is confidential and may be =
legally privileged. If you are not an intended recipient or an =
authorized representative of an intended recipient, you are prohibited =
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<BODY lang=3DEN-US vLink=3Dpurple link=3Dblue bgColor=3Dwhite>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Dear Manhar,</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>We have already&nbsp;done some work on =
this=20
direction. </FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Actually the trust protocol has already =
been=20
extended</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>with another metric, which describes =
the remaining=20
energy </FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>at the node. Energy value may be =
another parameter=20
</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>distributed </FONT><FONT face=3DArial =
size=3D2>via=20
beacons.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>By using a weight factor&nbsp;for the =
remaining=20
</FONT><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>energy value, you </FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>may select if you would like to have =
the=20
</FONT><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>protocol more </FONT><FONT =
face=3DArial=20
size=3D2>energy </FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>aware or more secure.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>We have recently submitted a paper =
(still under=20
evaluation), where </FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>you may find the following =
text:</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV>
<P class=3DMsoNormal=20
style=3D"MARGIN: 6pt 0cm 0pt 17.85pt; TEXT-INDENT: -17.85pt; =
LINE-HEIGHT: 150%; mso-list: l0 level1 lfo1; tab-stops: list =
18.0pt"><SPAN=20
lang=3DEN-US=20
style=3D"LINE-HEIGHT: 150%; FONT-FAMILY: Symbol; mso-bidi-font-size: =
12.0pt; mso-fareast-font-family: Symbol; mso-bidi-font-family: =
Symbol"><SPAN=20
style=3D"mso-list: Ignore">=B7<SPAN=20
style=3D"FONT: 7pt 'Times New =
Roman'">&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;=20
</SPAN></SPAN></SPAN><SPAN dir=3Dltr><B style=3D"mso-bidi-font-weight: =
normal"><SPAN=20
lang=3DEN-US>Remaining Energy</SPAN></B><SPAN lang=3DEN-US>: =
Systematically=20
selecting a highly trusted node for forwarding the packets may lead to =
the=20
exhaustion of its energy. Additionally, fixed traffic flows are =
vulnerable to=20
traffic analysis attacks. In this view, we have enriched our trust model =
with=20
energy information. <SPAN style=3D"mso-bidi-font-style: italic">In our =
novel=20
routing protocol, the basic routing message indicating the node =
availability and=20
position (the Beacon message defined in all location-based routing =
protocols) is=20
extended to include the =93remaining energy=94 field of the source node =
based on=20
which the energy-knowledge is built. Although it is possible to infer =
the=20
remaining energy of a neighboring node counting the interactions it has =
been=20
involved in (</SPAN></SPAN></SPAN><SPAN lang=3DEN-US=20
style=3D"LINE-HEIGHT: 150%; mso-bidi-font-size: 12.0pt">[21]</SPAN><SPAN =

lang=3DEN-US style=3D"LINE-HEIGHT: 150%; mso-bidi-font-size: 12.0pt">), =
</SPAN><SPAN=20
lang=3DEN-US style=3D"mso-bidi-font-style: italic">their implementation =
consumes=20
significant processing power. </SPAN><SPAN lang=3DEN-US=20
style=3D"LINE-HEIGHT: 150%; mso-bidi-font-size: =
12.0pt"><o:p></o:p></SPAN></P></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Best Regards,</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Theodore</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE dir=3Dltr=20
style=3D"PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; =
BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px solid; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">
  <DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial">----- Original Message ----- </DIV>
  <DIV=20
  style=3D"BACKGROUND: #e4e4e4; FONT: 10pt arial; font-color: =
black"><B>From:</B>=20
  <A title=3DManhar.Goindi@landisgyr.com=20
  href=3D"mailto:Manhar.Goindi@landisgyr.com">Goindi, Manhar</A> </DIV>
  <DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial"><B>To:</B> <A =
title=3Dzahariad@teihal.gr=20
  href=3D"mailto:zahariad@teihal.gr">Theodore Zahariadis</A> </DIV>
  <DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Cc:</B> <A title=3Droll@ietf.org=20
  href=3D"mailto:roll@ietf.org">roll@ietf.org</A> </DIV>
  <DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Sent:</B> Tuesday, June 23, 2009 =
5:34=20
AM</DIV>
  <DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Subject:</B> RE: [Roll] Energy =
Parameter in=20
  ROLL routin</DIV>
  <DIV><BR></DIV><!--ppd1000055-->
  <DIV class=3DSection1>
  <P class=3DMsoNormal><SPAN=20
  style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 11pt; COLOR: #1f497d; FONT-FAMILY: =
'Calibri','sans-serif'">Dear=20
  Mr. Theodore,<o:p></o:p></SPAN></P>
  <P class=3DMsoNormal><SPAN=20
  style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 11pt; COLOR: #1f497d; FONT-FAMILY: =
'Calibri','sans-serif'"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></SPAN></P>
  <P class=3DMsoNormal><SPAN=20
  style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 11pt; COLOR: #1f497d; FONT-FAMILY: =
'Calibri','sans-serif'">Thanks=20
  a lot!<o:p></o:p></SPAN></P>
  <P class=3DMsoNormal><SPAN=20
  style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 11pt; COLOR: #1f497d; FONT-FAMILY: =
'Calibri','sans-serif'"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></SPAN></P>
  <P class=3DMsoNormal><SPAN=20
  style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 11pt; COLOR: #1f497d; FONT-FAMILY: =
'Calibri','sans-serif'">I=20
  did get a chance to look the draft describing the protocol.&nbsp; It =
is a very=20
  good protocol to account for trusted nodes and not use malicious node =
for=20
  routing/forwarding packets.<o:p></o:p></SPAN></P>
  <P class=3DMsoNormal><SPAN=20
  style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 11pt; COLOR: #1f497d; FONT-FAMILY: =
'Calibri','sans-serif'"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></SPAN></P>
  <P class=3DMsoNormal><SPAN=20
  style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 11pt; COLOR: #1f497d; FONT-FAMILY: =
'Calibri','sans-serif'">I=20
  just have a query =96 is it possible to also use some sort of energy =
metrics on=20
  similar basis to route packets based on left over energy in =
nodes?&nbsp;=20
  Presently this protocol is independent from that and might have to be =
enhanced=20
  from that perspective.<o:p></o:p></SPAN></P>
  <P class=3DMsoNormal><SPAN=20
  style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 11pt; COLOR: #1f497d; FONT-FAMILY: =
'Calibri','sans-serif'"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></SPAN></P>
  <P class=3DMsoNormal><SPAN=20
  style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 11pt; COLOR: #1f497d; FONT-FAMILY: =
'Calibri','sans-serif'"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></SPAN></P>
  <P class=3DMsoNormal><SPAN=20
  style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 11pt; COLOR: #1f497d; FONT-FAMILY: =
'Calibri','sans-serif'">Thanks=20
  &amp; Best Regards,<o:p></o:p></SPAN></P>
  <P class=3DMsoNormal><SPAN=20
  style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 11pt; COLOR: #1f497d; FONT-FAMILY: =
'Calibri','sans-serif'">Manhar=20
  Goindi<o:p></o:p></SPAN></P>
  <DIV><BR><BR>
  <DIV align=3Dleft><FONT face=3DTahoma size=3D2><STRONG>Manhar=20
  Goindi</STRONG><BR>Technical Expert<BR>Phone: +91 120=20
  3352149<BR></FONT></DIV><BR></FONT></FONT></FONT>
  <DIV=20
  style=3D"BORDER-RIGHT: medium none; PADDING-RIGHT: 0in; BORDER-TOP: =
#b5c4df 1pt solid; PADDING-LEFT: 0in; PADDING-BOTTOM: 0in; BORDER-LEFT: =
medium none; PADDING-TOP: 3pt; BORDER-BOTTOM: medium none">
  <P class=3DMsoNormal><B><SPAN=20
  style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: =
'Tahoma','sans-serif'">From:</SPAN></B><SPAN=20
  style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Tahoma','sans-serif'">=20
  roll-bounces@ietf.org [mailto:roll-bounces@ietf.org] <B>On Behalf Of=20
  </B>Theodore Zahariadis<BR><B>Sent:</B> Monday, June 22, 2009 4:00=20
  PM<BR><B>To:</B> Goindi, Manhar<BR><B>Cc:</B> =
roll@ietf.org<BR><B>Subject:</B>=20
  Re: [Roll] Energy Parameter in ROLL =
routin<o:p></o:p></SPAN></P></DIV></DIV>
  <P class=3DMsoNormal><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></P>
  <DIV>
  <P class=3DMsoNormal><SPAN=20
  style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Arial','sans-serif'">Dear=20
  Manhar,</SPAN><o:p></o:p></P></DIV>
  <DIV>
  <P class=3DMsoNormal>&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></P></DIV>
  <DIV>
  <P class=3DMsoNormal><SPAN=20
  style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Arial','sans-serif'">We =
describe it at=20
  the following draft:</SPAN><o:p></o:p></P></DIV>
  <DIV>
  <P class=3DMsoNormal><SPAN=20
  style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Arial','sans-serif'"><A=20
  =
href=3D"http://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-zahariad-roll-trust-framework-00=
">http://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-zahariad-roll-trust-framework-00</A></=
SPAN><o:p></o:p></P></DIV>
  <DIV>
  <P class=3DMsoNormal>&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></P></DIV>
  <DIV>
  <P class=3DMsoNormal><SPAN=20
  style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Arial','sans-serif'">We look =
forward to=20
  hear any news or comments from you.</SPAN><o:p></o:p></P></DIV>
  <DIV>
  <P class=3DMsoNormal>&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></P></DIV>
  <DIV>
  <P class=3DMsoNormal><SPAN=20
  style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Arial','sans-serif'">Best=20
  Regards,</SPAN><o:p></o:p></P></DIV>
  <DIV>
  <P class=3DMsoNormal><SPAN=20
  style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Arial','sans-serif'">Theodore=20
  Zahariadis</SPAN><o:p></o:p></P></DIV>
  <DIV>
  <P class=3DMsoNormal>&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></P></DIV>
  <BLOCKQUOTE=20
  style=3D"BORDER-RIGHT: medium none; PADDING-RIGHT: 0in; BORDER-TOP: =
medium none; PADDING-LEFT: 4pt; PADDING-BOTTOM: 0in; MARGIN: 5pt 0in 5pt =
3.75pt; BORDER-LEFT: black 1.5pt solid; PADDING-TOP: 0in; BORDER-BOTTOM: =
medium none">
    <DIV>
    <P class=3DMsoNormal><SPAN=20
    style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Arial','sans-serif'">----- =
Original=20
    Message ----- <o:p></o:p></SPAN></P></DIV>
    <DIV>
    <P class=3DMsoNormal style=3D"BACKGROUND: #e4e4e4"><B><SPAN=20
    style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: =
'Arial','sans-serif'">From:</SPAN></B><SPAN=20
    style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Arial','sans-serif'"> <A=20
    title=3DManhar.Goindi@landisgyr.com=20
    href=3D"mailto:Manhar.Goindi@landisgyr.com">Goindi, Manhar</A>=20
    <o:p></o:p></SPAN></P></DIV>
    <DIV>
    <P class=3DMsoNormal><B><SPAN=20
    style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: =
'Arial','sans-serif'">To:</SPAN></B><SPAN=20
    style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Arial','sans-serif'"> <A=20
    title=3Dzahariad@teihal.gr =
href=3D"mailto:zahariad@teihal.gr">Theodore=20
    Zahariadis</A> <o:p></o:p></SPAN></P></DIV>
    <DIV>
    <P class=3DMsoNormal><B><SPAN=20
    style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: =
'Arial','sans-serif'">Sent:</SPAN></B><SPAN=20
    style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Arial','sans-serif'"> =
Monday, June 22,=20
    2009 1:05 PM<o:p></o:p></SPAN></P></DIV>
    <DIV>
    <P class=3DMsoNormal><B><SPAN=20
    style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: =
'Arial','sans-serif'">Subject:</SPAN></B><SPAN=20
    style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Arial','sans-serif'"> RE: =
[Roll]=20
    Energy Parameter in ROLL routin<o:p></o:p></SPAN></P></DIV>
    <DIV>
    <P class=3DMsoNormal><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></P></DIV>
    <P class=3DMsoNormal><SPAN=20
    style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 11pt; COLOR: #1f497d; FONT-FAMILY: =
'Calibri','sans-serif'">Dear=20
    Mr. Theodore,<o:p></o:p></SPAN></P>
    <P class=3DMsoNormal><SPAN=20
    style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 11pt; COLOR: #1f497d; FONT-FAMILY: =
'Calibri','sans-serif'"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></SPAN></P>
    <P class=3DMsoNormal><SPAN=20
    style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 11pt; COLOR: #1f497d; FONT-FAMILY: =
'Calibri','sans-serif'">Thanks=20
    a lot for sharing the document as it provided a very interesting=20
    reading.<o:p></o:p></SPAN></P>
    <P class=3DMsoNormal><SPAN=20
    style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 11pt; COLOR: #1f497d; FONT-FAMILY: =
'Calibri','sans-serif'"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></SPAN></P>
    <P class=3DMsoNormal><SPAN=20
    style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 11pt; COLOR: #1f497d; FONT-FAMILY: =
'Calibri','sans-serif'">I=20
    also enjoyed reading about the Secure Routing Protocol in Section 1 =
of the=20
    same document.<o:p></o:p></SPAN></P>
    <P class=3DMsoNormal><SPAN=20
    style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 11pt; COLOR: #1f497d; FONT-FAMILY: =
'Calibri','sans-serif'"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></SPAN></P>
    <P class=3DMsoNormal><SPAN=20
    style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 11pt; COLOR: #1f497d; FONT-FAMILY: =
'Calibri','sans-serif'">I=20
    am really sorry about this but I wish to inquire if there is any =
draft which=20
    describes this routing protocol in further =
detail.<o:p></o:p></SPAN></P>
    <P class=3DMsoNormal><SPAN=20
    style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 11pt; COLOR: #1f497d; FONT-FAMILY: =
'Calibri','sans-serif'"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></SPAN></P>
    <P class=3DMsoPlainText><SPAN=20
    style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 11pt; COLOR: #1f497d; FONT-FAMILY: =
'Calibri','sans-serif'">I=20
    already referenced the link:&nbsp; </SPAN><A=20
    =
href=3D"http://www.ietf.org/html.charters/roll-charter.html">http://www.i=
etf.org/html.charters/roll-charter.html</A>=20
    but could not find any such document there.<o:p></o:p></P>
    <P class=3DMsoNormal><SPAN=20
    style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 11pt; COLOR: #1f497d; FONT-FAMILY: =
'Calibri','sans-serif'"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></SPAN></P>
    <P class=3DMsoNormal><SPAN=20
    style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 11pt; COLOR: #1f497d; FONT-FAMILY: =
'Calibri','sans-serif'"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></SPAN></P>
    <P class=3DMsoNormal><SPAN=20
    style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 11pt; COLOR: #1f497d; FONT-FAMILY: =
'Calibri','sans-serif'">Thanks=20
    &amp; Best Regards,<o:p></o:p></SPAN></P>
    <P class=3DMsoNormal><SPAN=20
    style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 11pt; COLOR: #1f497d; FONT-FAMILY: =
'Calibri','sans-serif'">Manhar=20
    Goindi<o:p></o:p></SPAN></P>
    <DIV>
    <P class=3DMsoNormal style=3D"MARGIN-BOTTOM: =
12pt"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></P>
    <P class=3DMsoNormal><STRONG><SPAN=20
    style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Tahoma','sans-serif'">Manhar =

    Goindi</SPAN></STRONG><SPAN=20
    style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: =
'Tahoma','sans-serif'"><BR>Technical=20
    =
Expert<BR>Landis+Gyr&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;</SPA=
N><o:p></o:p></P>
    <P class=3DMsoNormal><SPAN=20
    style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Tahoma','sans-serif'">Phone: =
+91 120=20
    3352149</SPAN><o:p></o:p></P>
    <P class=3DMsoNormal style=3D"MARGIN-BOTTOM: 12pt"><SPAN=20
    style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 9pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Arial','sans-serif'"><A =
title=3D""=20
    href=3D"mailto:Manhar.Goindi@landisgyr.com"><SPAN=20
    style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: =
'Tahoma','sans-serif'">manhar.goindi@landisgyr.com</SPAN></A><BR></SPAN><=
SPAN=20
    style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Tahoma','sans-serif'"><A=20
    =
href=3D"http://www.landisgyr.com/">www.landisgyr.com<BR></A></SPAN><SPAN =

    style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 7.5pt; FONT-FAMILY: =
'Tahoma','sans-serif'"><BR></SPAN><STRONG><SPAN=20
    style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: #bad405; FONT-FAMILY: =
'Tahoma','sans-serif'">manage=20
    energy better</SPAN></STRONG><SPAN=20
    style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 7.5pt; COLOR: #bad405; FONT-FAMILY: =
'Arial','sans-serif'"><o:p></o:p></SPAN></P>
    <DIV=20
    style=3D"BORDER-RIGHT: medium none; PADDING-RIGHT: 0in; BORDER-TOP: =
#b5c4df 1pt solid; PADDING-LEFT: 0in; PADDING-BOTTOM: 0in; BORDER-LEFT: =
medium none; PADDING-TOP: 3pt; BORDER-BOTTOM: medium none">
    <P class=3DMsoNormal><B><SPAN=20
    style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: =
'Tahoma','sans-serif'">From:</SPAN></B><SPAN=20
    style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Tahoma','sans-serif'">=20
    roll-bounces@ietf.org [mailto:roll-bounces@ietf.org] <B>On Behalf Of =

    </B>Theodore Zahariadis<BR><B>Sent:</B> Thursday, June 11, 2009 6:12 =

    PM<BR><B>To:</B> roll@ietf.org<BR><B>Cc:</B> PANOS TRAKADAS; Sotiris =

    Maniatis; Karkazis Panagiotis<BR><B>Subject:</B> [Roll] Energy =
Parameter in=20
    ROLL routin<o:p></o:p></SPAN></P></DIV></DIV>
    <P class=3DMsoNormal><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></P>
    <DIV>
    <P class=3DMsoNormal style=3D"TEXT-ALIGN: justify">Dear =
all,<o:p></o:p></P>
    <P class=3DMsoNormal style=3D"TEXT-ALIGN: =
justify">&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></P>
    <P class=3DMsoNormal style=3D"TEXT-ALIGN: justify">Attached please =
find an=20
    informal document showing the energy consumption <o:p></o:p></P>
    <P class=3DMsoNormal style=3D"TEXT-ALIGN: justify">effects in WSN=20
    routing.<o:p></o:p></P>
    <P class=3DMsoNormal style=3D"TEXT-ALIGN: =
justify">&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></P>
    <P class=3DMsoNormal style=3D"TEXT-ALIGN: justify">We have proposed =
a trust and=20
    energy aware routing protocol (ATSR) <o:p></o:p></P>
    <P class=3DMsoNormal style=3D"TEXT-ALIGN: justify">(included in the =
ietf draft I=20
    have submitted), which succeeds in avoiding <o:p></o:p></P>
    <P class=3DMsoNormal style=3D"TEXT-ALIGN: justify">the malicious =
nodes (based on=20
    the incorporated trust model) and at the <o:p></o:p></P>
    <P class=3DMsoNormal style=3D"TEXT-ALIGN: justify">same time it =
decreases the=20
    energy consumption of stressed nodes (based <o:p></o:p></P>
    <P class=3DMsoNormal style=3D"TEXT-ALIGN: justify">on energy =
knowledge).=20
    <o:p></o:p></P>
    <P class=3DMsoNormal style=3D"TEXT-ALIGN: =
justify">&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></P>
    <P class=3DMsoNormal style=3D"TEXT-ALIGN: justify">The simulation =
results show=20
    that significant energy is consumed for routing <o:p></o:p></P>
    <P class=3DMsoNormal style=3D"TEXT-ALIGN: justify">and trust =
purposes and thus=20
    the frequency of exchange of this information <o:p></o:p></P>
    <P class=3DMsoNormal style=3D"TEXT-ALIGN: justify">should be very =
well=20
    considered. Our protocol guides the sensor nodes <o:p></o:p></P>
    <P class=3DMsoNormal style=3D"TEXT-ALIGN: justify">select for =
forwarding the=20
    neighbour that is not only closer to the destination but =
<o:p></o:p></P>
    <P class=3DMsoNormal style=3D"TEXT-ALIGN: justify">also has enough =
remaining=20
    energy, leading to better load balancing and energy =
savings.<o:p></o:p></P>
    <P class=3DMsoNormal style=3D"TEXT-ALIGN: =
justify">&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></P>
    <P class=3DMsoNormal style=3D"TEXT-ALIGN: justify">Looking forward =
to hearing=20
    your comments,<o:p></o:p></P>
    <P class=3DMsoNormal style=3D"TEXT-ALIGN: =
justify">&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></P>
    <P class=3DMsoNormal style=3D"TEXT-ALIGN: justify">Best =
Regards,<o:p></o:p></P>
    <P class=3DMsoNormal style=3D"TEXT-ALIGN: =
justify">Theodore<o:p></o:p></P>
    <P class=3DMsoNormal style=3D"TEXT-ALIGN: =
justify">&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></P>
    <P class=3DMsoNormal style=3D"TEXT-ALIGN: justify">&nbsp;<SPAN=20
    style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt"><o:p></o:p></SPAN></P></DIV>
    <P class=3DMsoNormal><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></P>
    <P><STRONG><SPAN=20
    style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 18pt; COLOR: green; FONT-FAMILY: =
Webdings">P</SPAN></STRONG><STRONG><SPAN=20
    style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: green; FONT-FAMILY: =
'Tahoma','sans-serif'">&nbsp;</SPAN></STRONG><STRONG><SPAN=20
    style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 7.5pt; COLOR: green; FONT-FAMILY: =
'Tahoma','sans-serif'">PLEASE=20
    CONSIDER OUR ENVIRONMENT BEFORE PRINTING THIS =
EMAIL.</SPAN></STRONG><B><SPAN=20
    style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 7.5pt; COLOR: green; FONT-FAMILY: =
'Tahoma','sans-serif'"><BR></SPAN></B><SPAN=20
    style=3D"FONT-FAMILY: 'Tahoma','sans-serif'"><BR></SPAN><SPAN=20
    style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 7.5pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Tahoma','sans-serif'">This =
e-mail=20
    (including any attachments) is confidential and may be legally =
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of an=20
    intended recipient, you are prohibited from using, copying or =
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you.</SPAN><o:p></o:p></P></BLOCKQUOTE></DIV></BLOCKQUOTE></BODY></HTML>

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From Manhar.Goindi@landisgyr.com  Tue Jun 23 02:55:58 2009
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From: "Goindi, Manhar" <Manhar.Goindi@landisgyr.com>
To: "Theodore Zahariadis" <zahariad@teihal.gr>
X-OriginalArrivalTime: 23 Jun 2009 09:56:04.0604 (UTC) FILETIME=[D27B7BC0:01C9F3E8]
Cc: roll@ietf.org
Subject: Re: [Roll] Energy Parameter in ROLL routin
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Dear Mr. Theodore,

 

Is this paper that has been submitted available for the forum members as
yet or would it be available later (after evaluation)?

 

 

Thanks & Best Regards,

Manhar Goindi

From: Theodore Zahariadis [mailto:zahariad@teihal.gr] 
Sent: Tuesday, June 23, 2009 11:32 AM
To: Goindi, Manhar
Cc: roll@ietf.org
Subject: Re: [Roll] Energy Parameter in ROLL routin

 

Dear Manhar,

 

We have already done some work on this direction. 

Actually the trust protocol has already been extended

with another metric, which describes the remaining energy 

at the node. Energy value may be another parameter 

distributed via beacons.

 

By using a weight factor for the remaining energy value, you 

may select if you would like to have the protocol more energy 

aware or more secure.

 

 

We have recently submitted a paper (still under evaluation), where 

you may find the following text:

 

 

*         Remaining Energy: Systematically selecting a highly trusted
node for forwarding the packets may lead to the exhaustion of its
energy. Additionally, fixed traffic flows are vulnerable to traffic
analysis attacks. In this view, we have enriched our trust model with
energy information. In our novel routing protocol, the basic routing
message indicating the node availability and position (the Beacon
message defined in all location-based routing protocols) is extended to
include the "remaining energy" field of the source node based on which
the energy-knowledge is built. Although it is possible to infer the
remaining energy of a neighboring node counting the interactions it has
been involved in ([21]), their implementation consumes significant
processing power. 

 

 

Best Regards,

Theodore

 

 

 

 

 

	

Manhar Goindi
Technical Expert
Phone: +91 120 3352149

----- Original Message ----- 

	From: Goindi, Manhar <mailto:Manhar.Goindi@landisgyr.com>  

	To: Theodore Zahariadis <mailto:zahariad@teihal.gr>  

	Cc: roll@ietf.org 

	Sent: Tuesday, June 23, 2009 5:34 AM

	Subject: RE: [Roll] Energy Parameter in ROLL routin

	 

	Dear Mr. Theodore,

	 

	Thanks a lot!

	 

	I did get a chance to look the draft describing the protocol.
It is a very good protocol to account for trusted nodes and not use
malicious node for routing/forwarding packets.

	 

	I just have a query - is it possible to also use some sort of
energy metrics on similar basis to route packets based on left over
energy in nodes?  Presently this protocol is independent from that and
might have to be enhanced from that perspective.

	 

	 

	Thanks & Best Regards,

	Manhar Goindi

	 

	Manhar Goindi
	Technical Expert
	Phone: +91 120 3352149

	 

	From: roll-bounces@ietf.org [mailto:roll-bounces@ietf.org] On
Behalf Of Theodore Zahariadis
	Sent: Monday, June 22, 2009 4:00 PM
	To: Goindi, Manhar
	Cc: roll@ietf.org
	Subject: Re: [Roll] Energy Parameter in ROLL routin

	 

	Dear Manhar,

	 

	We describe it at the following draft:

	
http://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-zahariad-roll-trust-framework-00

	 

	We look forward to hear any news or comments from you.

	 

	Best Regards,

	Theodore Zahariadis

	 

		----- Original Message ----- 

		From: Goindi, Manhar
<mailto:Manhar.Goindi@landisgyr.com>  

		To: Theodore Zahariadis <mailto:zahariad@teihal.gr>  

		Sent: Monday, June 22, 2009 1:05 PM

		Subject: RE: [Roll] Energy Parameter in ROLL routin

		 

		Dear Mr. Theodore,

		 

		Thanks a lot for sharing the document as it provided a
very interesting reading.

		 

		I also enjoyed reading about the Secure Routing Protocol
in Section 1 of the same document.

		 

		I am really sorry about this but I wish to inquire if
there is any draft which describes this routing protocol in further
detail.

		 

		I already referenced the link:
http://www.ietf.org/html.charters/roll-charter.html but could not find
any such document there.

		 

		 

		Thanks & Best Regards,

		Manhar Goindi

		 

		Manhar Goindi
		Technical Expert
		Landis+Gyr        

		Phone: +91 120 3352149

		manhar.goindi@landisgyr.com
<mailto:Manhar.Goindi@landisgyr.com> 
		www.landisgyr.com
		<http://www.landisgyr.com/> 
		manage energy better

		From: roll-bounces@ietf.org
[mailto:roll-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of Theodore Zahariadis
		Sent: Thursday, June 11, 2009 6:12 PM
		To: roll@ietf.org
		Cc: PANOS TRAKADAS; Sotiris Maniatis; Karkazis
Panagiotis
		Subject: [Roll] Energy Parameter in ROLL routin

		 

		Dear all,

		 

		Attached please find an informal document showing the
energy consumption 

		effects in WSN routing.

		 

		We have proposed a trust and energy aware routing
protocol (ATSR) 

		(included in the ietf draft I have submitted), which
succeeds in avoiding 

		the malicious nodes (based on the incorporated trust
model) and at the 

		same time it decreases the energy consumption of
stressed nodes (based 

		on energy knowledge). 

		 

		The simulation results show that significant energy is
consumed for routing 

		and trust purposes and thus the frequency of exchange of
this information 

		should be very well considered. Our protocol guides the
sensor nodes 

		select for forwarding the neighbour that is not only
closer to the destination but 

		also has enough remaining energy, leading to better load
balancing and energy savings.

		 

		Looking forward to hearing your comments,

		 

		Best Regards,

		Theodore

		 

		 

		 

		P PLEASE CONSIDER OUR ENVIRONMENT BEFORE PRINTING THIS
EMAIL.
		
		This e-mail (including any attachments) is confidential
and may be legally privileged. If you are not an intended recipient or
an authorized representative of an intended recipient, you are
prohibited from using, copying or distributing the information in this
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<div class=3DSection1>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'>Dear Mr. Theodore,<o:p></o:p></span></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'>Is this paper that has been submitted available for the =
forum
members as yet or would it be available later (after =
evaluation)?<o:p></o:p></span></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'>Thanks &amp; Best Regards,<o:p></o:p></span></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'>Manhar Goindi<o:p></o:p></span></p>

<div>

<BR><BR><DIV align=3Dleft><FONT face=3DTahoma size=3D2><STRONG>Manhar =
Goindi</STRONG><BR>Technical Expert<BR>Phone: +91 120 =
3352149<BR></FONT></DIV><BR></FONT></FONT></FONT><div =
style=3D'border:none;border-top:solid #B5C4DF 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in =
0in 0in'>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><b><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'>From:</span>=
</b><span
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'> Theodore =
Zahariadis
[mailto:zahariad@teihal.gr] <br>
<b>Sent:</b> Tuesday, June 23, 2009 11:32 AM<br>
<b>To:</b> Goindi, Manhar<br>
<b>Cc:</b> roll@ietf.org<br>
<b>Subject:</b> Re: [Roll] Energy Parameter in ROLL =
routin<o:p></o:p></span></p>

</div>

</div>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>

<div>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'>Dear
Manhar,</span><o:p></o:p></p>

</div>

<div>

<p class=3DMsoNormal>&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></p>

</div>

<div>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'>We
have already&nbsp;done some work on this direction. =
</span><o:p></o:p></p>

</div>

<div>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'>Actually
the trust protocol has already been extended</span><o:p></o:p></p>

</div>

<div>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'>with
another metric, which describes the remaining energy =
</span><o:p></o:p></p>

</div>

<div>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'>at
the node. Energy value may be another parameter </span><o:p></o:p></p>

</div>

<div>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'>distributed
via beacons.</span><o:p></o:p></p>

</div>

<div>

<p class=3DMsoNormal>&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></p>

</div>

<div>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'>By
using a weight factor&nbsp;for the remaining energy value, you =
</span><o:p></o:p></p>

</div>

<div>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'>may
select if you would like to have the protocol more energy =
</span><o:p></o:p></p>

</div>

<div>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'>aware
or more secure.</span><o:p></o:p></p>

</div>

<div>

<p class=3DMsoNormal>&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></p>

</div>

<div>

<p class=3DMsoNormal>&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></p>

</div>

<div>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'>We
have recently submitted a paper (still under evaluation), where =
</span><o:p></o:p></p>

</div>

<div>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'>you
may find the following text:</span><o:p></o:p></p>

</div>

<div>

<p class=3DMsoNormal>&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></p>

</div>

<div>

<p class=3DMsoNormal>&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></p>

</div>

<div>

<p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:6.0pt;margin-right:0in;margin-bottom:
0in;margin-left:17.85pt;margin-bottom:.0001pt;text-indent:-17.85pt;line-h=
eight:
150%'><span style=3D'font-family:Symbol'>&middot;</span><span =
style=3D'font-size:7.0pt;
line-height:150%'>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; =
</span><b>Remaining
Energy</b>: Systematically selecting a highly trusted node for =
forwarding the
packets may lead to the exhaustion of its energy. Additionally, fixed =
traffic
flows are vulnerable to traffic analysis attacks. In this view, we have
enriched our trust model with energy information. In our novel routing
protocol, the basic routing message indicating the node availability and
position (the Beacon message defined in all location-based routing =
protocols)
is extended to include the &#8220;remaining energy&#8221; field of the =
source node based on
which the energy-knowledge is built. Although it is possible to infer =
the
remaining energy of a neighboring node counting the interactions it has =
been
involved in ([21]), their implementation consumes significant processing =
power.
<o:p></o:p></p>

</div>

<div>

<p class=3DMsoNormal>&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></p>

</div>

<div>

<p class=3DMsoNormal>&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></p>

</div>

<div>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'>Best
Regards,</span><o:p></o:p></p>

</div>

<div>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'>Theodore</spa=
n><o:p></o:p></p>

</div>

<div>

<p class=3DMsoNormal>&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></p>

</div>

<div>

<p class=3DMsoNormal>&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></p>

</div>

<div>

<p class=3DMsoNormal>&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></p>

</div>

<div>

<p class=3DMsoNormal>&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></p>

</div>

<div>

<p class=3DMsoNormal>&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></p>

</div>

<blockquote style=3D'border:none;border-left:solid black =
1.5pt;padding:0in 0in 0in 4.0pt;
margin-left:3.75pt;margin-top:5.0pt;margin-right:0in;margin-bottom:5.0pt'=
>

<div>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'>-----
Original Message ----- <o:p></o:p></span></p>

</div>

<div>

<p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'background:#E4E4E4'><b><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'>From:</span></b><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'> <a =
href=3D"mailto:Manhar.Goindi@landisgyr.com"
title=3D"Manhar.Goindi@landisgyr.com">Goindi, Manhar</a> =
<o:p></o:p></span></p>

</div>

<div>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><b><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'>To:</span></b=
><span
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'> <a
href=3D"mailto:zahariad@teihal.gr" title=3D"zahariad@teihal.gr">Theodore =
Zahariadis</a>
<o:p></o:p></span></p>

</div>

<div>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><b><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'>Cc:</span></b=
><span
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'> <a
href=3D"mailto:roll@ietf.org" title=3D"roll@ietf.org">roll@ietf.org</a> =
<o:p></o:p></span></p>

</div>

<div>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><b><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'>Sent:</span><=
/b><span
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'> Tuesday, =
June 23,
2009 5:34 AM<o:p></o:p></span></p>

</div>

<div>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><b><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'>Subject:</spa=
n></b><span
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'> RE: [Roll] =
Energy
Parameter in ROLL routin<o:p></o:p></span></p>

</div>

<div>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>

</div>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'>Dear Mr. Theodore,<o:p></o:p></span></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'>Thanks a lot!<o:p></o:p></span></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'>I did get a chance to look the draft describing the
protocol.&nbsp; It is a very good protocol to account for trusted nodes =
and not
use malicious node for routing/forwarding packets.<o:p></o:p></span></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'>I just have a query &#8211; is it possible to also use =
some sort of
energy metrics on similar basis to route packets based on left over =
energy in
nodes?&nbsp; Presently this protocol is independent from that and might =
have to
be enhanced from that perspective.<o:p></o:p></span></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'>Thanks &amp; Best Regards,<o:p></o:p></span></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'>Manhar Goindi<o:p></o:p></span></p>

<div>

<p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-bottom:12.0pt'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><strong><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'>Manhar
Goindi</span></strong><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'><br>
Technical Expert<br>
Phone: +91 120 3352149</span><o:p></o:p></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>

<div style=3D'border:none;border-top:solid #B5C4DF 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt =
0in 0in 0in'>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><b><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'>From:</span>=
</b><span
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'>
roll-bounces@ietf.org [mailto:roll-bounces@ietf.org] <b>On Behalf Of =
</b>Theodore
Zahariadis<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Monday, June 22, 2009 4:00 PM<br>
<b>To:</b> Goindi, Manhar<br>
<b>Cc:</b> roll@ietf.org<br>
<b>Subject:</b> Re: [Roll] Energy Parameter in ROLL =
routin<o:p></o:p></span></p>

</div>

</div>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>

<div>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'>Dear
Manhar,</span><o:p></o:p></p>

</div>

<div>

<p class=3DMsoNormal>&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></p>

</div>

<div>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'>We
describe it at the following draft:</span><o:p></o:p></p>

</div>

<div>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'><a
href=3D"http://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-zahariad-roll-trust-framework-00=
">http://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-zahariad-roll-trust-framework-00</a></=
span><o:p></o:p></p>

</div>

<div>

<p class=3DMsoNormal>&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></p>

</div>

<div>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'>We
look forward to hear any news or comments from =
you.</span><o:p></o:p></p>

</div>

<div>

<p class=3DMsoNormal>&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></p>

</div>

<div>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'>Best
Regards,</span><o:p></o:p></p>

</div>

<div>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'>Theodore
Zahariadis</span><o:p></o:p></p>

</div>

<div>

<p class=3DMsoNormal>&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></p>

</div>

<blockquote style=3D'border:none;border-left:solid black =
1.5pt;padding:0in 0in 0in 4.0pt;
margin-left:3.75pt;margin-top:5.0pt;margin-right:0in;margin-bottom:5.0pt'=
>

<div>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'>-----
Original Message ----- <o:p></o:p></span></p>

</div>

<div>

<p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'background:#E4E4E4'><b><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'>From:</span></b><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'> <a =
href=3D"mailto:Manhar.Goindi@landisgyr.com"
title=3D"Manhar.Goindi@landisgyr.com">Goindi, Manhar</a> =
<o:p></o:p></span></p>

</div>

<div>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><b><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'>To:</span></b=
><span
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'> <a
href=3D"mailto:zahariad@teihal.gr" title=3D"zahariad@teihal.gr">Theodore =
Zahariadis</a>
<o:p></o:p></span></p>

</div>

<div>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><b><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'>Sent:</span><=
/b><span
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'> Monday, =
June 22,
2009 1:05 PM<o:p></o:p></span></p>

</div>

<div>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><b><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'>Subject:</spa=
n></b><span
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'> RE: [Roll] =
Energy
Parameter in ROLL routin<o:p></o:p></span></p>

</div>

<div>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>

</div>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'>Dear Mr. Theodore,<o:p></o:p></span></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'>Thanks a lot for sharing the document as it provided a =
very
interesting reading.<o:p></o:p></span></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'>I also enjoyed reading about the Secure Routing Protocol =
in
Section 1 of the same document.<o:p></o:p></span></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'>I am really sorry about this but I wish to inquire if =
there is
any draft which describes this routing protocol in further =
detail.<o:p></o:p></span></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>

<p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'>I already referenced the link:&nbsp; </span><a
href=3D"http://www.ietf.org/html.charters/roll-charter.html">http://www.i=
etf.org/html.charters/roll-charter.html</a>
but could not find any such document there.<o:p></o:p></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'>Thanks &amp; Best Regards,<o:p></o:p></span></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'>Manhar Goindi<o:p></o:p></span></p>

<div>

<p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-bottom:12.0pt'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><strong><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'>Manhar
Goindi</span></strong><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'><br>
Technical Expert<br>
Landis+Gyr&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;</span><o:p></o=
:p></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'>Phone:
+91 120 3352149</span><o:p></o:p></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'margin-bottom:12.0pt'><span =
style=3D'font-size:9.0pt;
font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"'><a =
href=3D"mailto:Manhar.Goindi@landisgyr.com"
title=3D""><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'>manhar.goind=
i@landisgyr.com</span></a><br>
</span><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'><a
href=3D"http://www.landisgyr.com/">www.landisgyr.com<br>
</a></span><span =
style=3D'font-size:7.5pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'><br>
</span><strong><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif";
color:#BAD405'>manage energy better</span></strong><span =
style=3D'font-size:7.5pt;
font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:#BAD405'><o:p></o:p></span></p>

<div style=3D'border:none;border-top:solid #B5C4DF 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt =
0in 0in 0in'>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><b><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'>From:</span>=
</b><span
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'>
roll-bounces@ietf.org [mailto:roll-bounces@ietf.org] <b>On Behalf Of =
</b>Theodore
Zahariadis<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Thursday, June 11, 2009 6:12 PM<br>
<b>To:</b> roll@ietf.org<br>
<b>Cc:</b> PANOS TRAKADAS; Sotiris Maniatis; Karkazis Panagiotis<br>
<b>Subject:</b> [Roll] Energy Parameter in ROLL =
routin<o:p></o:p></span></p>

</div>

</div>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>

<div>

<p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'text-align:justify'>Dear =
all,<o:p></o:p></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'text-align:justify'>&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'text-align:justify'>Attached please find =
an informal
document showing the energy consumption <o:p></o:p></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'text-align:justify'>effects in WSN =
routing.<o:p></o:p></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'text-align:justify'>&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'text-align:justify'>We have proposed a =
trust and
energy aware routing protocol (ATSR) <o:p></o:p></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'text-align:justify'>(included in the ietf =
draft I
have submitted), which succeeds in avoiding <o:p></o:p></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'text-align:justify'>the malicious nodes =
(based on the
incorporated trust model) and at the <o:p></o:p></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'text-align:justify'>same time it decreases =
the energy
consumption of stressed nodes (based <o:p></o:p></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'text-align:justify'>on energy knowledge). =
<o:p></o:p></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'text-align:justify'>&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'text-align:justify'>The simulation results =
show that
significant energy is consumed for routing <o:p></o:p></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'text-align:justify'>and trust purposes and =
thus the
frequency of exchange of this information <o:p></o:p></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'text-align:justify'>should be very well =
considered.
Our protocol guides the sensor nodes <o:p></o:p></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'text-align:justify'>select for forwarding =
the
neighbour that is not only closer to the destination but <o:p></o:p></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'text-align:justify'>also has enough =
remaining energy,
leading to better load balancing and energy savings.<o:p></o:p></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'text-align:justify'>&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'text-align:justify'>Looking forward to =
hearing your
comments,<o:p></o:p></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'text-align:justify'>&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'text-align:justify'>Best =
Regards,<o:p></o:p></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'text-align:justify'>Theodore<o:p></o:p></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'text-align:justify'>&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'text-align:justify'>&nbsp;<span =
style=3D'font-size:
10.0pt'><o:p></o:p></span></p>

</div>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>

<p><strong><span =
style=3D'font-size:18.0pt;font-family:Webdings;color:green'>P</span></str=
ong><strong><span
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif";color:green'>=
&nbsp;</span></strong><strong><span
style=3D'font-size:7.5pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif";color:green'>P=
LEASE
CONSIDER OUR ENVIRONMENT BEFORE PRINTING THIS =
EMAIL.</span></strong><b><span
style=3D'font-size:7.5pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif";color:green'><=
br>
</span></b><span style=3D'font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'><br>
</span><span =
style=3D'font-size:7.5pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'>This
e-mail (including any attachments) is confidential and may be legally
privileged. If you are not an intended recipient or an authorized
representative of an intended recipient, you are prohibited from using, =
copying
or distributing the information in this e-mail or its attachments. If =
you have
received this e-mail in error, please notify the sender immediately by =
return
e-mail and delete all copies of this message and any attachments. Thank =
you.</span><o:p></o:p></p>

</blockquote>

</blockquote>

</div>

</body>

</html>

------_=_NextPart_001_01C9F3E8.D1755455--

From Rob.Alexander@ember.com  Thu Jun 25 13:03:31 2009
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From: Rob Alexander <ralexander@ember.com>
To: Theodore Zahariadis <zahariad@teihal.gr>
In-Reply-To: <35DAFED16D2344F1B73B1B44485AA075@sVAIO>
References: <E0F3E2E8982741B5814E1AE7C544C9D4@sVAIO> <A876246C13ACAF4AAA554580750C949C61834F@ausyd02.ap.bm.net> <35DAFED16D2344F1B73B1B44485AA075@sVAIO>
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Date: Thu, 25 Jun 2009 15:48:53 -0400
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Cc: "Goindi, Manhar" <Manhar.Goindi@landisgyr.com>, roll@ietf.org
Subject: Re: [Roll] Energy Parameter in ROLL routin
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Hi Theodore,

I read through your draft and had a question about one of the methods
for gathering Direct Trust Metrics.

  1. Packet forwarding: To detect nodes that deny or selectively
        forward packets, each time a source node transmits a packet that
        has to be forwarded it MAY enter the promiscuous mode and
        overhear the wireless medium to check whether the packet was
        actually forwarded by the selected neighbor. If positive, this
        is accounted as a successful interaction; otherwise, it is 
        counted as a failure.

In a dense or busy network it may be possible that messages are lost due
to various failures unrelated to a security attack.  How would a node
differentiate between a neighbor that temporarily lacks the resources to
forward a message and a malicious neighbor that is selectively
forwarding them?  

 - Rob


On Mon, 2009-06-22 at 13:30 +0300, Theodore Zahariadis wrote:
> Dear Manhar,
>  
> We describe it at the following draft:
> http://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-zahariad-roll-trust-framework-00
>  
> We look forward to hear any news or comments from you.
>  
> Best Regards,
> Theodore Zahariadis
>  
>         ----- Original Message ----- 
>         From: Goindi, Manhar 
>         To: Theodore Zahariadis 
>         Sent: Monday, June 22, 2009 1:05 PM
>         Subject: RE: [Roll] Energy Parameter in ROLL routin
>         
>         
>         Dear Mr. Theodore,
>         
>          
>         
>         Thanks a lot for sharing the document as it provided a very
>         interesting reading.
>         
>          
>         
>         I also enjoyed reading about the Secure Routing Protocol in
>         Section 1 of the same document.
>         
>          
>         
>         I am really sorry about this but I wish to inquire if there is
>         any draft which describes this routing protocol in further
>         detail.
>         
>          
>         
>         I already referenced the link:
>         http://www.ietf.org/html.charters/roll-charter.html but could
>         not find any such document there.
>         
>          
>         
>          
>         
>         Thanks & Best Regards,
>         
>         Manhar Goindi
>         
>         
>         
>         Manhar Goindi
>         Technical Expert
>         Landis+Gyr        
>         
>         Phone: +91 120 3352149
>         manhar.goindi@landisgyr.com
>         www.landisgyr.com
>         
>         manage energy better
>         
>         
>         From: roll-bounces@ietf.org [mailto:roll-bounces@ietf.org] On
>         Behalf Of Theodore Zahariadis
>         Sent: Thursday, June 11, 2009 6:12 PM
>         To: roll@ietf.org
>         Cc: PANOS TRAKADAS; Sotiris Maniatis; Karkazis Panagiotis
>         Subject: [Roll] Energy Parameter in ROLL routin
>         
>         
>          
>         
>         Dear all,
>         
>          
>         
>         Attached please find an informal document showing the energy
>         consumption 
>         
>         effects in WSN routing.
>         
>          
>         
>         We have proposed a trust and energy aware routing protocol
>         (ATSR) 
>         
>         (included in the ietf draft I have submitted), which succeeds
>         in avoiding 
>         
>         the malicious nodes (based on the incorporated trust model)
>         and at the 
>         
>         same time it decreases the energy consumption of stressed
>         nodes (based 
>         
>         on energy knowledge). 
>         
>          
>         
>         The simulation results show that significant energy is
>         consumed for routing 
>         
>         and trust purposes and thus the frequency of exchange of this
>         information 
>         
>         should be very well considered. Our protocol guides the sensor
>         nodes 
>         
>         select for forwarding the neighbour that is not only closer to
>         the destination but 
>         
>         also has enough remaining energy, leading to better load
>         balancing and energy savings.
>         
>          
>         
>         Looking forward to hearing your comments,
>         
>          
>         
>         Best Regards,
>         
>         Theodore
>         
>          
>         
>          
>         
>         
>         
>         P PLEASE CONSIDER OUR ENVIRONMENT BEFORE PRINTING THIS EMAIL.
>         
>         This e-mail (including any attachments) is confidential and
>         may be legally privileged. If you are not an intended
>         recipient or an authorized representative of an intended
>         recipient, you are prohibited from using, copying or
>         distributing the information in this e-mail or its
>         attachments. If you have received this e-mail in error, please
>         notify the sender immediately by return e-mail and delete all
>         copies of this message and any attachments. Thank you.
>         
> _______________________________________________
> Roll mailing list
> Roll@ietf.org
> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/roll
***

Robert Alexander
Ember, Inc.
47 Farnsworth Street
Boston, MA 02210
T: 617-951-1244
F: 617-951-0999

From richard.kelsey@ember.com  Fri Jun 26 07:14:15 2009
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From: Richard Kelsey <richard.kelsey@ember.com>
References: <E0F3E2E8982741B5814E1AE7C544C9D4@sVAIO> <A876246C13ACAF4AAA554580750C949C61834F@ausyd02.ap.bm.net> <35DAFED16D2344F1B73B1B44485AA075@sVAIO> <1245959333.30282.1.camel@ralexander-laptop>
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Cc: Manhar.Goindi@landisgyr.com, roll@ietf.org
Subject: Re: [Roll] Energy Parameter in ROLL routin
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   From: Rob Alexander <ralexander@ember.com>
   Date: Thu, 25 Jun 2009 15:48:53 -0400

   I read through your draft and had a question about one of the methods
   for gathering Direct Trust Metrics.

     1. Packet forwarding: To detect nodes that deny or selectively
           forward packets, each time a source node transmits a packet that
           has to be forwarded it MAY enter the promiscuous mode and
           overhear the wireless medium to check whether the packet was
           actually forwarded by the selected neighbor. If positive, this
           is accounted as a successful interaction; otherwise, it is 
           counted as a failure.

   In a dense or busy network it may be possible that messages are lost due
   to various failures unrelated to a security attack.  How would a node
   differentiate between a neighbor that temporarily lacks the resources to
   forward a message and a malicious neighbor that is selectively
   forwarding them?  

It may also be that the neighbor forwared the message
via a different interface, either a different wireless
PHY or a wired one.

A truly malicious neighbor, as opposed to a merely
lazy or incompetent one, would forward the message
to a non-existant next hop.  This would give the
illusion of being helpful while actually dropping
the packet.

                         -Richard Kelsey

From prvs=421cec3e4=mukul@uwm.edu  Fri Jun 26 14:04:27 2009
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Date: Fri, 26 Jun 2009 16:04:44 -0500 (CDT)
From: Mukul Goyal <mukul@uwm.edu>
To: roll <roll@ietf.org>
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Subject: [Roll] Fwd: New Version Notification for draft-goyal-roll-dv-00
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Hi all,

Here is a simple distance vector protocol for ROLL. I would be happy to receive your comments. I know the DT draft would soon be out and would take most attention. I still hope that this draft would attract some attention and generate some discussion. The draft would soon be accessible at:

http://www.cs.uwm.edu/~mukul/draft-goyal-roll-dv-00.txt

in case it is not immediately available at IETF servers.

Thanks
Mukul

 
----- Forwarded Message -----
From: "IETF I-D Submission Tool" <idsubmission@ietf.org>
To: mukul@uwm.edu
Sent: Friday, June 26, 2009 3:55:10 PM GMT -06:00 US/Canada Central
Subject: New Version Notification for draft-goyal-roll-dv-00 


A new version of I-D, draft-goyal-roll-dv-00.txt has been successfuly submitted by Mukul Goyal and posted to the IETF repository.

Filename:	 draft-goyal-roll-dv
Revision:	 00
Title:		 A Distance Vector Protocol for Routing Over Low Power and Lossy Networks
Creation_date:	 2009-06-26
WG ID:		 Independent Submission
Number_of_pages: 9

Abstract:
This draft describes a distance vector protocol for routing over low
power and lossy networks.  In this protocol, each node periodically
advertises its minimum hop distance and "current" end-to-end
reliability of reaching a destination in the network via local
broadcast of Hello messages.  One Hello message may contain several
such advertisements.  The inter-Hello time period is determined using
an adaptive scheme designed to speed up routing convergence to both
good and bad news while avoiding unnecessary transmissions.  A node
maintains hop distance and end-to-end reliability information for a
subset of its neighbors and for a subset of destinations in the
network.  For each such destination, the node also maintains the set
of neighbors that it would use to forward packets going to that
destination.  These neighbors are selected such that they are closest
to the destination in terms of hops among neighbors that satisfy a
certain minimum reliability criterion.
                                                                                  


The IETF Secretariat.



From jvasseur@cisco.com  Sun Jun 28 10:01:48 2009
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Subject: [Roll] DT Routing Protocol proposal rev-00
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Dear WG,

As you know we formed a Design Team a few months ago. The DT worked  
really hard with hours of conference calls every week and lots of  
discussions and the draft will be posted today (draft-dt-roll-rpl-00).  
As already pointed out, the document is far from being fully baked of  
course, and your input, comments and contribution would be greatly  
appreciated. We still have two weeks before the next cut-off  
submission date.

Please comment.

Thanks.

JP.0

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Subject: [Roll] Fwd: I-D Action:draft-dt-roll-rpl-00.txt
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Here you are.

Thanks.

JP.

Begin forwarded message:

> From: Internet-Drafts@ietf.org
> Date: June 29, 2009 1:15:01 AM CEDT
> To: i-d-announce@ietf.org
> Subject: I-D Action:draft-dt-roll-rpl-00.txt
> Reply-To: internet-drafts@ietf.org
>
> A New Internet-Draft is available from the on-line Internet-Drafts  
> directories.
>
> 	Title           : RPL: Routing Protocol for Low Power and Lossy  
> Networks
> 	Author(s)       : T. Winter, R. Team
> 	Filename        : draft-dt-roll-rpl-00.txt
> 	Pages           : 60
> 	Date            : 2009-06-28
>
> This document specifies the Routing Protocol for Low Power and Lossy
> Networks (RPL), in accordance with the requirements described in
> [I-D.ietf-roll-building-routing-reqs],
> [I-D.ietf-roll-home-routing-reqs],
> [I-D.ietf-roll-indus-routing-reqs], and [RFC5548].
>
> A URL for this Internet-Draft is:
> http://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-dt-roll-rpl-00.txt
>
> Internet-Drafts are also available by anonymous FTP at:
> ftp://ftp.ietf.org/internet-drafts/
>
> Below is the data which will enable a MIME compliant mail reader
> implementation to automatically retrieve the ASCII version of the
> Internet-Draft.
> _______________________________________________
> I-D-Announce mailing list
> I-D-Announce@ietf.org
> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/i-d-announce
> Internet-Draft directories: http://www.ietf.org/shadow.html
> or ftp://ftp.ietf.org/ietf/1shadow-sites.txt


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<html><body style=3D"word-wrap: break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; =
-webkit-line-break: after-white-space; ">Here you =
are.<div><br></div><div>Thanks.</div><div><br></div><div>JP.<br><div><br><=
div>Begin forwarded message:</div><br =
class=3D"Apple-interchange-newline"><blockquote type=3D"cite"><div><div =
style=3D"margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; =
margin-left: 0px; "><font face=3D"Helvetica" size=3D"4" color=3D"#000000" =
style=3D"font: 14.0px Helvetica; color: #000000"><b>From: =
</b></font><font face=3D"Helvetica" size=3D"4" style=3D"font: 14.0px =
Helvetica"><a =
href=3D"mailto:Internet-Drafts@ietf.org">Internet-Drafts@ietf.org</a></fon=
t></div><div style=3D"margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: =
0px; margin-left: 0px; "><font face=3D"Helvetica" size=3D"4" =
color=3D"#000000" style=3D"font: 14.0px Helvetica; color: =
#000000"><b>Date: </b></font><font face=3D"Helvetica" size=3D"4" =
style=3D"font: 14.0px Helvetica">June 29, 2009 1:15:01 AM =
CEDT</font></div><div style=3D"margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; =
margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; "><font face=3D"Helvetica" =
size=3D"4" color=3D"#000000" style=3D"font: 14.0px Helvetica; color: =
#000000"><b>To: </b></font><font face=3D"Helvetica" size=3D"4" =
style=3D"font: 14.0px Helvetica"><a =
href=3D"mailto:i-d-announce@ietf.org">i-d-announce@ietf.org</a></font></di=
v><div style=3D"margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; =
margin-left: 0px; "><font face=3D"Helvetica" size=3D"4" color=3D"#000000" =
style=3D"font: 14.0px Helvetica; color: #000000"><b>Subject: =
</b></font><font face=3D"Helvetica" size=3D"4" style=3D"font: 14.0px =
Helvetica"><b>I-D Action:draft-dt-roll-rpl-00.txt<span =
class=3D"Apple-converted-space">&nbsp;</span></b></font></div><div =
style=3D"margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; =
margin-left: 0px; "><font face=3D"Helvetica" size=3D"4" color=3D"#000000" =
style=3D"font: 14.0px Helvetica; color: #000000"><b>Reply-To: =
</b></font><font face=3D"Helvetica" size=3D"4" style=3D"font: 14.0px =
Helvetica"><a =
href=3D"mailto:internet-drafts@ietf.org">internet-drafts@ietf.org</a></fon=
t></div><div style=3D"margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: =
0px; margin-left: 0px; min-height: 14px; "><br></div> </div><div>A New =
Internet-Draft is available from the on-line Internet-Drafts =
directories.<br><br><span class=3D"Apple-tab-span" =
style=3D"white-space:pre">	</span>Title =
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;: RPL: =
Routing Protocol for Low Power and Lossy Networks<br><span =
class=3D"Apple-tab-span" style=3D"white-space:pre">	</span>Author(s) =
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;: T. Winter, R. Team<br><span =
class=3D"Apple-tab-span" style=3D"white-space:pre">	</span>Filename =
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;: =
draft-dt-roll-rpl-00.txt<br><span class=3D"Apple-tab-span" =
style=3D"white-space:pre">	</span>Pages =
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;: =
60<br><span class=3D"Apple-tab-span" style=3D"white-space:pre">	=
</span>Date =
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;: =
2009-06-28<br><br>This document specifies the Routing Protocol for Low =
Power and Lossy<br>Networks (RPL), in accordance with the requirements =
described =
in<br>[I-D.ietf-roll-building-routing-reqs],<br>[I-D.ietf-roll-home-routin=
g-reqs],<br>[I-D.ietf-roll-indus-routing-reqs], and [RFC5548].<br><br>A =
URL for this Internet-Draft is:<br><a =
href=3D"http://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-dt-roll-rpl-00.txt">http=
://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-dt-roll-rpl-00.txt</a><br><br>Intern=
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<html><body style="word-wrap: break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; -webkit-line-break: after-white-space; "><div><div><blockquote type="cite"><div>_______________________________________________<br>I-D-Announce mailing list<br>I-D-Announce@ietf.org<br>https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/i-d-announce<br>Internet-Draft directories: http://www.ietf.org/shadow.html<br>or ftp://ftp.ietf.org/ietf/1shadow-sites.txt<br></div></blockquote></div><br></div></body></html>
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From: engineer.umair@yahoo.com
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Dear WG,

Nice to see the draft. MUST appreciate the efforts of ROLL DT.

Thanks,
=0AUmair

--- On Mon, 6/29/09, JP Vasseur <jvasseur@cisco.com> wrote:

From: JP Vasseur <jvasseur@cisco.com>
Subject: [Roll] Fwd: I-D Action:draft-dt-roll-rpl-00.txt
To: "ROLL WG" <roll@ietf.org>
Date: Monday, June 29, 2009, 4:48 AM

Here you are.
Thanks.
JP.

Begin forwarded message:
From: Internet-Drafts@ietf.orgDate: June 29, 2009 1:15:01 AM CEDTTo: i-d-an=
nounce@ietf.orgSubject: I-D Action:draft-dt-roll-rpl-00.txt=A0Reply-To: int=
ernet-drafts@ietf.org
 A New Internet-Draft is available from the on-line Internet-Drafts directo=
ries.

=09Title =A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0: RPL: Routing Protocol for Low Powe=
r and Lossy Networks
=09Author(s) =A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0: T. Winter, R. Team
=09Filename =A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0: draft-dt-roll-rpl-00.txt
=09Pages =A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0: 60

=09Date =A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0: 2009-06-28

This document specifies the Routing Protocol for Low Power and Lossy
Networks (RPL), in accordance with the requirements described in
[I-D.ietf-roll-building-routing-reqs],
[I-D.ietf-roll-home-routing-reqs],
[I-D.ietf-roll-indus-routing-reqs], and [RFC5548].

A URL for this Internet-Draft is:
http://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-dt-roll-rpl-00.txt

Internet-Drafts are also available by anonymous FTP at:
ftp://ftp.ietf.org/internet-drafts/

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implementation to automatically retrieve the ASCII version of the
Internet-Draft.
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-----Inline Attachment Follows-----

_______________________________________________
Roll mailing list
Roll@ietf.org
https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/roll
=0A=0A=0A      
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<table cellspacing=3D"0" cellpadding=3D"0" border=3D"0" ><tr><td valign=3D"=
top" style=3D"font: inherit;"><div id=3D"yiv747538648">Dear WG,<br><br>Nice=
 to see the draft. MUST appreciate the efforts of ROLL DT.<br><br>Thanks,<b=
r>=0AUmair<br><br>--- On <b>Mon, 6/29/09, JP Vasseur <i>&lt;jvasseur@cisco.=
com&gt;</i></b> wrote:<br><blockquote style=3D"border-left: 2px solid rgb(1=
6, 16, 255); margin-left: 5px; padding-left: 5px;"><br>From: JP Vasseur &lt=
;jvasseur@cisco.com&gt;<br>Subject: [Roll] Fwd: I-D Action:draft-dt-roll-rp=
l-00.txt<br>To: "ROLL WG" &lt;roll@ietf.org&gt;<br>Date: Monday, June 29, 2=
009, 4:48 AM<br><br><div id=3D"yiv1221986853">Here you are.<div><br></div><=
div>Thanks.</div><div><br></div><div>JP.<br><div><br><div>Begin forwarded m=
essage:</div><br class=3D"Apple-interchange-newline"><blockquote type=3D"ci=
te"><div><div style=3D"margin: 0px;"><font style=3D"font-family: Helvetica;=
 font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; font-size: =
14px; line-height: normal; font-size-adjust: none; font-stretch: normal; co=
lor: rgb(0, 0, 0);" size=3D"4" color=3D"#000000" face=3D"Helvetica"><b>From=
: </b></font><font style=3D"font-family: Helvetica; font-style: normal; fon=
t-variant: normal;
 font-weight: normal; font-size: 14px; line-height: normal; font-size-adjus=
t: none; font-stretch: normal;" size=3D"4" face=3D"Helvetica"><a rel=3D"nof=
ollow">Internet-Drafts@ietf.org</a></font></div><div style=3D"margin: 0px;"=
><font style=3D"font-family: Helvetica; font-style: normal; font-variant: n=
ormal; font-weight: normal; font-size: 14px; line-height: normal; font-size=
-adjust: none; font-stretch: normal; color: rgb(0, 0, 0);" size=3D"4" color=
=3D"#000000" face=3D"Helvetica"><b>Date: </b></font><font style=3D"font-fam=
ily: Helvetica; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: norm=
al; font-size: 14px; line-height: normal; font-size-adjust: none; font-stre=
tch: normal;" size=3D"4" face=3D"Helvetica">June 29, 2009 1:15:01 AM CEDT</=
font></div><div style=3D"margin: 0px;"><font style=3D"font-family: Helvetic=
a; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; font-size=
: 14px; line-height: normal; font-size-adjust: none; font-stretch: normal; =
color: rgb(0, 0,
 0);" size=3D"4" color=3D"#000000" face=3D"Helvetica"><b>To: </b></font><fo=
nt style=3D"font-family: Helvetica; font-style: normal; font-variant: norma=
l; font-weight: normal; font-size: 14px; line-height: normal; font-size-adj=
ust: none; font-stretch: normal;" size=3D"4" face=3D"Helvetica"><a rel=3D"n=
ofollow">i-d-announce@ietf.org</a></font></div><div style=3D"margin: 0px;">=
<font style=3D"font-family: Helvetica; font-style: normal; font-variant: no=
rmal; font-weight: normal; font-size: 14px; line-height: normal; font-size-=
adjust: none; font-stretch: normal; color: rgb(0, 0, 0);" size=3D"4" color=
=3D"#000000" face=3D"Helvetica"><b>Subject: </b></font><font style=3D"font-=
family: Helvetica; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: n=
ormal; font-size: 14px; line-height: normal; font-size-adjust: none; font-s=
tretch: normal;" size=3D"4" face=3D"Helvetica"><b>I-D Action:draft-dt-roll-=
rpl-00.txt<span class=3D"Apple-converted-space">&nbsp;</span></b></font></d=
iv><div style=3D"margin:
 0px;"><font style=3D"font-family: Helvetica; font-style: normal; font-vari=
ant: normal; font-weight: normal; font-size: 14px; line-height: normal; fon=
t-size-adjust: none; font-stretch: normal; color: rgb(0, 0, 0);" size=3D"4"=
 color=3D"#000000" face=3D"Helvetica"><b>Reply-To: </b></font><font style=
=3D"font-family: Helvetica; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-=
weight: normal; font-size: 14px; line-height: normal; font-size-adjust: non=
e; font-stretch: normal;" size=3D"4" face=3D"Helvetica"><a rel=3D"nofollow"=
>internet-drafts@ietf.org</a></font></div><div style=3D"margin: 0px; min-he=
ight: 14px;"><br></div> </div><div>A New Internet-Draft is available from t=
he on-line Internet-Drafts directories.<br><br><span class=3D"Apple-tab-spa=
n" style=3D"white-space: pre;">=09</span>Title &nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbs=
p;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;: RPL: Routing Protocol for Low Power and L=
ossy Networks<br><span class=3D"Apple-tab-span" style=3D"white-space: pre;"=
>=09</span>Author(s)
 &nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;: T. Winter, R. Team<br><span class=3D=
"Apple-tab-span" style=3D"white-space: pre;">=09</span>Filename &nbsp;&nbsp=
;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;: draft-dt-roll-rpl-00.txt<br><span class=3D=
"Apple-tab-span" style=3D"white-space: pre;">=09</span>Pages &nbsp;&nbsp;&n=
bsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;: 60<br><span class=3D"Apple-=
tab-span" style=3D"white-space: pre;"><br>=09</span>Date &nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;=
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;: 2009-06-28<br><br>This do=
cument specifies the Routing Protocol for Low Power and Lossy<br>Networks (=
RPL), in accordance with the requirements described in<br>[I-D.ietf-roll-bu=
ilding-routing-reqs],<br>[I-D.ietf-roll-home-routing-reqs],<br>[I-D.ietf-ro=
ll-indus-routing-reqs], and [RFC5548].<br><br>A URL for this Internet-Draft=
 is:<br><a rel=3D"nofollow" target=3D"_blank"
 href=3D"http://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-dt-roll-rpl-00.txt">http=
://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-dt-roll-rpl-00.txt</a><br><br>Interne=
t-Drafts are also available by anonymous FTP at:<br>ftp://ftp.ietf.org/inte=
rnet-drafts/<br><br>Below is the data which will enable a MIME compliant ma=
il reader<br>implementation to automatically retrieve the ASCII version of =
the<br>Internet-Draft.<br></div></blockquote></div></div></div><div id=3D"y=
iv1571274613"><div><div><blockquote type=3D"cite"><div>____________________=
___________________________<br>I-D-Announce mailing list<br>I-D-Announce@ie=
tf.org<br>https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/i-d-announce<br>Internet-Dr=
aft directories: http://www.ietf.org/shadow.html<br>or ftp://ftp.ietf.org/i=
etf/1shadow-sites.txt<br></div></blockquote></div><br></div></div><br>-----=
Inline Attachment Follows-----<br><br><div class=3D"plainMail">____________=
___________________________________<br>Roll mailing list<br><a
 rel=3D"nofollow">Roll@ietf.org</a><br><a rel=3D"nofollow" target=3D"_blank=
" href=3D"https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/roll">https://www.ietf.org/=
mailman/listinfo/roll</a><br></div></blockquote></div></td></tr></table><br=
>=0A=0A      
--0-10158621-1246259726=:32440--


From alexandru.petrescu@gmail.com  Mon Jun 29 03:59:12 2009
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From: Alexandru Petrescu <alexandru.petrescu@gmail.com>
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Cc: ROLL WG <roll@ietf.org>
Subject: Re: [Roll] Fwd: I-D Action:draft-dt-roll-rpl-00.txt
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Thanks!

Just a quick note on the abbreviation RPL.

RPL: Rendez-vouz Point Link RFC5015 and more
RPL: PDAD-RREP-with-Location-information
      draft-jeong-autoconf-pdad-on-demand-01
RPL: Remote Program Load, IBM 1984

Maybe a better abbreviation could be suggested.

Alex


JP Vasseur a écrit :
> Here you are.
> 
> Thanks.
> 
> JP.
> 
> Begin forwarded message:
> 
>> *From: *Internet-Drafts@ietf.org <mailto:Internet-Drafts@ietf.org>
>> *Date: *June 29, 2009 1:15:01 AM CEDT
>> *To: *i-d-announce@ietf.org <mailto:i-d-announce@ietf.org>
>> *Subject: **I-D Action:draft-dt-roll-rpl-00.txt *
>> *Reply-To: *internet-drafts@ietf.org <mailto:internet-drafts@ietf.org>
>>
>> A New Internet-Draft is available from the on-line Internet-Drafts 
>> directories.
>>
>> Title           : RPL: Routing Protocol for Low Power and Lossy Networks
>> Author(s)       : T. Winter, R. Team
>> Filename        : draft-dt-roll-rpl-00.txt
>> Pages           : 60
>> Date            : 2009-06-28
>>
>> This document specifies the Routing Protocol for Low Power and Lossy
>> Networks (RPL), in accordance with the requirements described in
>> [I-D.ietf-roll-building-routing-reqs],
>> [I-D.ietf-roll-home-routing-reqs],
>> [I-D.ietf-roll-indus-routing-reqs], and [RFC5548].
>>
>> A URL for this Internet-Draft is:
>> http://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-dt-roll-rpl-00.txt
>>
>> Internet-Drafts are also available by anonymous FTP at:
>> ftp://ftp.ietf.org/internet-drafts/
>>
>> Below is the data which will enable a MIME compliant mail reader
>> implementation to automatically retrieve the ASCII version of the
>> Internet-Draft.
> 
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
> 
>> _______________________________________________
>> I-D-Announce mailing list
>> I-D-Announce@ietf.org
>> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/i-d-announce
>> Internet-Draft directories: http://www.ietf.org/shadow.html
>> or ftp://ftp.ietf.org/ietf/1shadow-sites.txt
> 
> 
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
> 
> _______________________________________________
> Roll mailing list
> Roll@ietf.org
> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/roll



From jvasseur@cisco.com  Mon Jun 29 09:02:57 2009
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Cc: ROLL WG <roll@ietf.org>
Subject: Re: [Roll] Fwd: I-D Action:draft-dt-roll-rpl-00.txt
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Hi Alex,

We tried many acronyms ... ideas welcome ! And more importantly =20
comments too.

Thanks.

JP.

On Jun 29, 2009, at 12:59 PM, Alexandru Petrescu wrote:

> Thanks!
>
> Just a quick note on the abbreviation RPL.
>
> RPL: Rendez-vouz Point Link RFC5015 and more
> RPL: PDAD-RREP-with-Location-information
>     draft-jeong-autoconf-pdad-on-demand-01
> RPL: Remote Program Load, IBM 1984
>
> Maybe a better abbreviation could be suggested.
>
> Alex
>
>
> JP Vasseur a =E9crit :
>> Here you are.
>> Thanks.
>> JP.
>> Begin forwarded message:
>>> *From: *Internet-Drafts@ietf.org <mailto:Internet-Drafts@ietf.org>
>>> *Date: *June 29, 2009 1:15:01 AM CEDT
>>> *To: *i-d-announce@ietf.org <mailto:i-d-announce@ietf.org>
>>> *Subject: **I-D Action:draft-dt-roll-rpl-00.txt *
>>> *Reply-To: *internet-drafts@ietf.org =
<mailto:internet-drafts@ietf.org=20
>>> >
>>>
>>> A New Internet-Draft is available from the on-line Internet-Drafts =20=

>>> directories.
>>>
>>> Title           : RPL: Routing Protocol for Low Power and Lossy =20
>>> Networks
>>> Author(s)       : T. Winter, R. Team
>>> Filename        : draft-dt-roll-rpl-00.txt
>>> Pages           : 60
>>> Date            : 2009-06-28
>>>
>>> This document specifies the Routing Protocol for Low Power and Lossy
>>> Networks (RPL), in accordance with the requirements described in
>>> [I-D.ietf-roll-building-routing-reqs],
>>> [I-D.ietf-roll-home-routing-reqs],
>>> [I-D.ietf-roll-indus-routing-reqs], and [RFC5548].
>>>
>>> A URL for this Internet-Draft is:
>>> http://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-dt-roll-rpl-00.txt
>>>
>>> Internet-Drafts are also available by anonymous FTP at:
>>> ftp://ftp.ietf.org/internet-drafts/
>>>
>>> Below is the data which will enable a MIME compliant mail reader
>>> implementation to automatically retrieve the ASCII version of the
>>> Internet-Draft.
>> =
------------------------------------------------------------------------
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> I-D-Announce mailing list
>>> I-D-Announce@ietf.org
>>> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/i-d-announce
>>> Internet-Draft directories: http://www.ietf.org/shadow.html
>>> or ftp://ftp.ietf.org/ietf/1shadow-sites.txt
>> =
------------------------------------------------------------------------
>> _______________________________________________
>> Roll mailing list
>> Roll@ietf.org
>> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/roll
>
>


From alexandru.petrescu@gmail.com  Mon Jun 29 09:16:46 2009
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Subject: Re: [Roll] Fwd: I-D Action:draft-dt-roll-rpl-00.txt
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JP Vasseur a écrit :
> Hi Alex,
> 
> We tried many acronyms ... ideas welcome ! And more importantly
> comments too.

Could be ROLL... Something like:

       Routing Protocol for Low Power and Lossy Networks (ROLL)

Or other inspiring acronyms. (I find ROLL inspiring).

I did a review of the document.  I am not sure whether I should send the
comments now or later when more people report more.  There are a few
eyebrow-raising aspects, like a Directed Acyclic Graph without arrows,
or a node with multiple interfaces, which I don't understand.

I am not sure whether it's worth reporting the rest now...

Thanks for the comprehensive document and let's see comments,

Alex

> 
> Thanks.
> 
> JP.
> 
> On Jun 29, 2009, at 12:59 PM, Alexandru Petrescu wrote:
> 
>> Thanks!
>> 
>> Just a quick note on the abbreviation RPL.
>> 
>> RPL: Rendez-vouz Point Link RFC5015 and more RPL:
>> PDAD-RREP-with-Location-information 
>> draft-jeong-autoconf-pdad-on-demand-01 RPL: Remote Program Load,
>> IBM 1984
>> 
>> Maybe a better abbreviation could be suggested.
>> 
>> Alex
>> 
>> 
>> JP Vasseur a écrit :
>>> Here you are. Thanks. JP. Begin forwarded message:
>>>> *From: *Internet-Drafts@ietf.org
>>>> <mailto:Internet-Drafts@ietf.org> *Date: *June 29, 2009 1:15:01
>>>> AM CEDT *To: *i-d-announce@ietf.org
>>>> <mailto:i-d-announce@ietf.org> *Subject: **I-D
>>>> Action:draft-dt-roll-rpl-00.txt * *Reply-To:
>>>> *internet-drafts@ietf.org <mailto:internet-drafts@ietf.org>
>>>> 
>>>> A New Internet-Draft is available from the on-line
>>>> Internet-Drafts directories.
>>>> 
>>>> Title           : RPL: Routing Protocol for Low Power and Lossy
>>>>  Networks Author(s)       : T. Winter, R. Team Filename
>>>> : draft-dt-roll-rpl-00.txt Pages           : 60 Date
>>>> : 2009-06-28
>>>> 
>>>> This document specifies the Routing Protocol for Low Power and
>>>> Lossy Networks (RPL), in accordance with the requirements
>>>> described in [I-D.ietf-roll-building-routing-reqs], 
>>>> [I-D.ietf-roll-home-routing-reqs], 
>>>> [I-D.ietf-roll-indus-routing-reqs], and [RFC5548].
>>>> 
>>>> A URL for this Internet-Draft is: 
>>>> http://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-dt-roll-rpl-00.txt
>>>> 
>>>> Internet-Drafts are also available by anonymous FTP at: 
>>>> ftp://ftp.ietf.org/internet-drafts/
>>>> 
>>>> Below is the data which will enable a MIME compliant mail
>>>> reader implementation to automatically retrieve the ASCII
>>>> version of the Internet-Draft.
>>> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>>> 
>>>> _______________________________________________ I-D-Announce
>>>> mailing list I-D-Announce@ietf.org 
>>>> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/i-d-announce 
>>>> Internet-Draft directories: http://www.ietf.org/shadow.html or
>>>> ftp://ftp.ietf.org/ietf/1shadow-sites.txt
>>> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>>>  _______________________________________________ Roll mailing
>>> list Roll@ietf.org https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/roll
>> 
>> 
> 
> 



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Cc: ROLL WG <roll@ietf.org>
Subject: Re: [Roll] Fwd: I-D Action:draft-dt-roll-rpl-00.txt
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Hi Alex,

Please send your comments.

Thanks.

JP.

On Jun 29, 2009, at 6:15 PM, Alexandru Petrescu wrote:

> JP Vasseur a =E9crit :
>> Hi Alex,
>> We tried many acronyms ... ideas welcome ! And more importantly
>> comments too.
>
> Could be ROLL... Something like:
>
>      Routing Protocol for Low Power and Lossy Networks (ROLL)
>
> Or other inspiring acronyms. (I find ROLL inspiring).
>
> I did a review of the document.  I am not sure whether I should send =20=

> the
> comments now or later when more people report more.  There are a few
> eyebrow-raising aspects, like a Directed Acyclic Graph without arrows,
> or a node with multiple interfaces, which I don't understand.
>
> I am not sure whether it's worth reporting the rest now...
>
> Thanks for the comprehensive document and let's see comments,
>
> Alex
>
>> Thanks.
>> JP.
>> On Jun 29, 2009, at 12:59 PM, Alexandru Petrescu wrote:
>>> Thanks!
>>> Just a quick note on the abbreviation RPL.
>>> RPL: Rendez-vouz Point Link RFC5015 and more RPL:
>>> PDAD-RREP-with-Location-information draft-jeong-autoconf-pdad-on-=20
>>> demand-01 RPL: Remote Program Load,
>>> IBM 1984
>>> Maybe a better abbreviation could be suggested.
>>> Alex
>>> JP Vasseur a =E9crit :
>>>> Here you are. Thanks. JP. Begin forwarded message:
>>>>> *From: *Internet-Drafts@ietf.org
>>>>> <mailto:Internet-Drafts@ietf.org> *Date: *June 29, 2009 1:15:01
>>>>> AM CEDT *To: *i-d-announce@ietf.org
>>>>> <mailto:i-d-announce@ietf.org> *Subject: **I-D
>>>>> Action:draft-dt-roll-rpl-00.txt * *Reply-To:
>>>>> *internet-drafts@ietf.org <mailto:internet-drafts@ietf.org>
>>>>> A New Internet-Draft is available from the on-line
>>>>> Internet-Drafts directories.
>>>>> Title           : RPL: Routing Protocol for Low Power and Lossy
>>>>> Networks Author(s)       : T. Winter, R. Team Filename
>>>>> : draft-dt-roll-rpl-00.txt Pages           : 60 Date
>>>>> : 2009-06-28
>>>>> This document specifies the Routing Protocol for Low Power and
>>>>> Lossy Networks (RPL), in accordance with the requirements
>>>>> described in [I-D.ietf-roll-building-routing-reqs], [I-D.ietf-=20
>>>>> roll-home-routing-reqs], [I-D.ietf-roll-indus-routing-reqs], and =20=

>>>>> [RFC5548].
>>>>> A URL for this Internet-Draft is: =
http://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-dt-roll-rpl-00.txt
>>>>> Internet-Drafts are also available by anonymous FTP at: =
ftp://ftp.ietf.org/internet-drafts/
>>>>> Below is the data which will enable a MIME compliant mail
>>>>> reader implementation to automatically retrieve the ASCII
>>>>> version of the Internet-Draft.
>>>> =
------------------------------------------------------------------------
>>>>> _______________________________________________ I-D-Announce
>>>>> mailing list I-D-Announce@ietf.org =
https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/i-d-announce=20
>>>>>  Internet-Draft directories: http://www.ietf.org/shadow.html or
>>>>> ftp://ftp.ietf.org/ietf/1shadow-sites.txt
>>>> =
------------------------------------------------------------------------
>>>> _______________________________________________ Roll mailing
>>>> list Roll@ietf.org https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/roll
>
>


From Manhar.Goindi@landisgyr.com  Tue Jun 30 02:15:59 2009
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From: "Goindi, Manhar" <Manhar.Goindi@landisgyr.com>
To: "JP Vasseur" <jvasseur@cisco.com>, "ROLL WG" <roll@ietf.org>
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Hi JP,

=20

Thanks a lot for sharing this draft as it proved very informative & I
thoroughly enjoyed reading it.

=20

I have the following queries:

=20

1.       How does a node know that DIO it has received from a node
should be taken as a Parent or a Sibling with reference to Example in
section 3.3.1.4.1?  I mean how would it decide its own depth.

2.       In Section 3.3.4.4 - why doesn't node 51 reattach itself as a
child to node 53 instead of making node 52 as its parent?  Is it that
node 51 cannot hear node 53 directly so it has to go through node 52?

3.       Can siblings hear each other as it is not evident from Figure
2:  Example DAG?

4.       In section 3.3.4.1:  Moving Down a DAG - it is mentioned that
there is little change for a loop and node 56 may reattach to DAG with
parents 43 & 55.  How is the formation or non-formation of this loop
detected?  What is the mechanism for that?

=20

Would someone like to see if there is an answer to them?

=20

=20

Thanks & Best Regards,

Manhar Goindi

From: roll-bounces@ietf.org [mailto:roll-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of
JP Vasseur
Sent: Monday, June 29, 2009 10:19 AM
To: ROLL WG
Subject: [Roll] Fwd: I-D Action:draft-dt-roll-rpl-00.txt

=20

Here you are.

=20

Thanks.

=20

JP.

=20

Begin forwarded message:





From: Internet-Drafts@ietf.org

Date: June 29, 2009 1:15:01 AM CEDT

To: i-d-announce@ietf.org

Subject: I-D Action:draft-dt-roll-rpl-00.txt=20

Reply-To: internet-drafts@ietf.org

=20

A New Internet-Draft is available from the on-line Internet-Drafts
directories.

            Title           : RPL: Routing Protocol for Low Power and
Lossy Networks
            Author(s)       : T. Winter, R. Team
            Filename        : draft-dt-roll-rpl-00.txt
            Pages           : 60
            Date            : 2009-06-28

This document specifies the Routing Protocol for Low Power and Lossy
Networks (RPL), in accordance with the requirements described in
[I-D.ietf-roll-building-routing-reqs],
[I-D.ietf-roll-home-routing-reqs],
[I-D.ietf-roll-indus-routing-reqs], and [RFC5548].

A URL for this Internet-Draft is:
http://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-dt-roll-rpl-00.txt

Internet-Drafts are also available by anonymous FTP at:
ftp://ftp.ietf.org/internet-drafts/

Below is the data which will enable a MIME compliant mail reader
implementation to automatically retrieve the ASCII version of the
Internet-Draft.


Manhar Goindi
Technical Expert
Landis+Gyr
Phone: +91 120 3352149
manhar.goindi@landisgyr.com
http://www.landisgyr.com/

Manage Energy Better


PLEASE CONSIDER OUR ENVIRONMENT BEFORE PRINTING THIS EMAIL.

This e-mail (including any attachments) is confidential and may be =
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<div class=3DSection1>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'>Hi JP,<o:p></o:p></span></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'>Thanks a lot for sharing this draft as it proved very
informative &amp; I thoroughly enjoyed reading it.<o:p></o:p></span></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'>I have the following queries:<o:p></o:p></span></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>

<p class=3DMsoListParagraph style=3D'text-indent:-.25in;mso-list:l0 =
level1 lfo1'><![if !supportLists]><span
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D'><span
style=3D'mso-list:Ignore'>1.<span style=3D'font:7.0pt "Times New =
Roman"'>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;
</span></span></span><![endif]><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'>How does a node know that DIO it has received from a node =
should
be taken as a Parent or a Sibling with reference to Example in section =
3.3.1.4.1?&nbsp;
I mean how would it decide its own depth.<o:p></o:p></span></p>

<p class=3DMsoListParagraph style=3D'text-indent:-.25in;mso-list:l0 =
level1 lfo1'><![if !supportLists]><span
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D'><span
style=3D'mso-list:Ignore'>2.<span style=3D'font:7.0pt "Times New =
Roman"'>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;
</span></span></span><![endif]><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'>In Section 3.3.4.4 &#8211; why doesn&#8217;t node 51 =
reattach
itself as a child to node 53 instead of making node 52 as its =
parent?&nbsp; Is
it that node 51 cannot hear node 53 directly so it has to go through =
node 52?<o:p></o:p></span></p>

<p class=3DMsoListParagraph style=3D'text-indent:-.25in;mso-list:l0 =
level1 lfo1'><![if !supportLists]><span
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D'><span
style=3D'mso-list:Ignore'>3.<span style=3D'font:7.0pt "Times New =
Roman"'>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;
</span></span></span><![endif]><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'>Can siblings hear each other as it is not evident from =
Figure
2:&nbsp; Example DAG?<o:p></o:p></span></p>

<p class=3DMsoListParagraph style=3D'text-indent:-.25in;mso-list:l0 =
level1 lfo1'><![if !supportLists]><span
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D'><span
style=3D'mso-list:Ignore'>4.<span style=3D'font:7.0pt "Times New =
Roman"'>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;
</span></span></span><![endif]><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'>In section 3.3.4.1:&nbsp; Moving Down a DAG &#8211; it is
mentioned that there is little change for a loop and node 56 may =
reattach to
DAG with parents 43 &amp; 55.&nbsp; How is the formation or =
non-formation of
this loop detected?&nbsp; What is the mechanism for =
that?<o:p></o:p></span></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'>Would someone like to see if there is an answer to =
them?<o:p></o:p></span></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'>Thanks &amp; Best Regards,<o:p></o:p></span></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'>Manhar Goindi<o:p></o:p></span></p>

<div>

<BR><BR><DIV align=3Dleft><FONT face=3DTahoma size=3D2><STRONG>Manhar =
Goindi</STRONG><BR>Technical =
Expert<BR>Landis+Gyr&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;<BR><=
/FONT></DIV><DIV align=3Dleft><FONT face=3DTahoma size=3D2>Phone: +91 =
120 3352149</FONT><SPAN lang=3DEN-US style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 9pt; =
FONT-FAMILY: Arial; mso-bidi-font-size: 9.0pt; mso-fareast-font-family: =
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mso-fareast-language: EN-US; mso-bidi-language: AR-SA"><FONT =
face=3DTahoma size=3D2></FONT></SPAN></DIV><DIV align=3Dleft><SPAN =
lang=3DEN-US style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 9pt; FONT-FAMILY: Arial; =
mso-bidi-font-size: 9.0pt; mso-fareast-font-family: 'Arial'; =
mso-bidi-font-family: 'Arial'; mso-ansi-language: EN-US; =
mso-fareast-language: EN-US; mso-bidi-language: AR-SA"><A title=3D"" =
href=3D"mailto:Manhar.Goindi@landisgyr.com"><FONT face=3DTahoma =
size=3D2>manhar.goindi@landisgyr.com</FONT></A><BR></SPAN><A title=3D"" =
href=3D"http://www.landisgyr.com/"><FONT face=3DTahoma size=3D2><A =
href=3D"http://www.landisgyr.com/">www.landisgyr.com<BR></A><FONT =
face=3DTahoma size=3D1><BR></A><FONT face=3DArial =
color=3D#bad405><STRONG><FONT face=3DTahoma size=3D2>manage energy =
better</FONT></STRONG></A><BR><BR></DIV></FONT></FONT></FONT><div =
style=3D'border:none;border-top:solid #B5C4DF 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in =
0in 0in'>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><b><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'>From:</span>=
</b><span
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'> =
roll-bounces@ietf.org
[mailto:roll-bounces@ietf.org] <b>On Behalf Of </b>JP Vasseur<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Monday, June 29, 2009 10:19 AM<br>
<b>To:</b> ROLL WG<br>
<b>Subject:</b> [Roll] Fwd: I-D =
Action:draft-dt-roll-rpl-00.txt<o:p></o:p></span></p>

</div>

</div>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal>Here you are.<o:p></o:p></p>

<div>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>

</div>

<div>

<p class=3DMsoNormal>Thanks.<o:p></o:p></p>

</div>

<div>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>

</div>

<div>

<p class=3DMsoNormal>JP.<o:p></o:p></p>

<div>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>

<div>

<p class=3DMsoNormal>Begin forwarded message:<o:p></o:p></p>

</div>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><br>
<br>
<o:p></o:p></p>

<div>

<div>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><b><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Helvetica","sans-serif";
color:black'>From: </span></b><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Helvetica","sans-serif"'><a
href=3D"mailto:Internet-Drafts@ietf.org">Internet-Drafts@ietf.org</a></sp=
an><o:p></o:p></p>

</div>

<div>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><b><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Helvetica","sans-serif";
color:black'>Date: </span></b><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Helvetica","sans-serif"'>June
29, 2009 1:15:01 AM CEDT</span><o:p></o:p></p>

</div>

<div>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><b><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Helvetica","sans-serif";
color:black'>To: </span></b><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Helvetica","sans-serif"'><a
href=3D"mailto:i-d-announce@ietf.org">i-d-announce@ietf.org</a></span><o:=
p></o:p></p>

</div>

<div>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><b><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Helvetica","sans-serif";
color:black'>Subject: </span></b><b><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt;font-family:
"Helvetica","sans-serif"'>I-D Action:draft-dt-roll-rpl-00.txt<span
class=3Dapple-converted-space>&nbsp;</span></span></b><o:p></o:p></p>

</div>

<div>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><b><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Helvetica","sans-serif";
color:black'>Reply-To: </span></b><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.5pt;font-family:
"Helvetica","sans-serif"'><a =
href=3D"mailto:internet-drafts@ietf.org">internet-drafts@ietf.org</a></sp=
an><o:p></o:p></p>

</div>

<div>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>

</div>

</div>

<div>

<p class=3DMsoNormal>A New Internet-Draft is available from the on-line
Internet-Drafts directories.<br>
<br>
<span =
class=3Dapple-tab-span>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&n=
bsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; </span>Title
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;: RPL: =
Routing
Protocol for Low Power and Lossy Networks<br>
<span =
class=3Dapple-tab-span>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&n=
bsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; </span>Author(s)
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;: T. Winter, R. Team<br>
<span =
class=3Dapple-tab-span>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&n=
bsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; </span>Filename
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;: draft-dt-roll-rpl-00.txt<br>
<span =
class=3Dapple-tab-span>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&n=
bsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; </span>Pages
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;: 60<br>
<span =
class=3Dapple-tab-span>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&n=
bsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; </span>Date
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;: =
2009-06-28<br>
<br>
This document specifies the Routing Protocol for Low Power and Lossy<br>
Networks (RPL), in accordance with the requirements described in<br>
[I-D.ietf-roll-building-routing-reqs],<br>
[I-D.ietf-roll-home-routing-reqs],<br>
[I-D.ietf-roll-indus-routing-reqs], and [RFC5548].<br>
<br>
A URL for this Internet-Draft is:<br>
<a =
href=3D"http://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-dt-roll-rpl-00.txt">htt=
p://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-dt-roll-rpl-00.txt</a><br>
<br>
Internet-Drafts are also available by anonymous FTP at:<br>
ftp://ftp.ietf.org/internet-drafts/<br>
<br>
Below is the data which will enable a MIME compliant mail reader<br>
implementation to automatically retrieve the ASCII version of the<br>
Internet-Draft.<o:p></o:p></p>

</div>

</div>

</div>

</div>

<BR><P><FONT face=3DTahoma><FONT color=3Dgreen size=3D2><STRONG><FONT =
face=3DWebdings size=3D5>P</FONT>&nbsp;<FONT size=3D1>PLEASE CONSIDER =
OUR ENVIRONMENT BEFORE PRINTING THIS =
EMAIL.<BR></FONT></STRONG></FONT></FONT><FONT face=3DTahoma><BR><FONT =
size=3D1>This e-mail (including any attachments) is confidential and may =
be legally privileged. If you are not an intended recipient or an =
authorized representative of an intended recipient, you are prohibited =
from using, copying or distributing the information in this e-mail or =
its attachments. If you have received this e-mail in error, please =
notify the sender immediately by return e-mail and delete all copies of =
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Thread-Topic: [Roll] Fwd: I-D Action:draft-dt-roll-rpl-00.txt Q1
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Thread-Topic: [Roll] Fwd: I-D Action:draft-dt-roll-rpl-00.txt Q2..4
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From richard.kelsey@ember.com  Tue Jun 30 10:17:33 2009
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Date: Tue, 30 Jun 2009 13:16:26 -0400
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From: Richard Kelsey <richard.kelsey@ember.com>
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Subject: [Roll] Trickle in draft-dt-roll-rpl-00.txt
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There are some problems with how Trickle is being used for
RA transmissions in draft-dt-roll-rpl-00.

Trickle normally uses two rules for governing
retransmission:

 - Receiving an up-to-date message acts to suppress
   transmission.

 - Receiving an out-of-date message acts to promote
   transmission.
   
This works if all devices share the same data, which makes
it trivial to determine if an incoming message should
suppress or promote a transmission by the receiver.  There
is no such easy test for RAs.

Section 5.3.2 lists the cases where receiving new data
requires resetting the Trickle timer.  Receiving a 'stale'
RA never resets the timer.  In fact, in the current
document, any RA for a DAG acts to suppress an RA
transmission for that DAG.  This clearly does not work
because it causes out-of-date RAs to suppress more
up-to-date ones.  For example, a node with many children
will rarely transmit, even if the children have stale data.

For Trickle to work, if node A hears an RA from node B, node
A should:

 - act to suppress A's RA if B would make as good or better
   a parent than A for all devices that might hear node A

 - act to promote A's RA if A would make a better parent
   for B than B's current parent

There often no way to determine if either of these cases
apply, as both depend on subsequent decisions by other
devices.  Nor is there a safe conservative choice.  If A
resets its timer unnecessarily it transmits to no purpose.
If A erroneously suppresses its RAs the DAG becomes
inefficient or broken.  In the absence of a usable
'up-to-date' test for received RAs, I do not see how Trickle
can work for maintaining a DAG.

By the way, I suggested using Trickle in a similar role in
draft-kelsey-roll-lip-00.  I think the same problems apply
there as well.  Sorry about that.

                                 -Richard Kelsey

From jhui@archrock.com  Tue Jun 30 10:42:15 2009
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From: Jonathan Hui <jhui@archrock.com>
To: Richard Kelsey <richard.kelsey@ember.com>
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Subject: Re: [Roll] Trickle in draft-dt-roll-rpl-00.txt
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Hi Richard,

I agree with you that rpl-00 needs additional work w.r.t. the use of  
Trickle. So let me try and address some of your concerns here on the ML.

The trick with making Trickle work properly in a routing protocol is  
that you have to change the rules on what causes an increase in the  
counter, k, and what causes the timer to reset. You are right, that  
the original version of Trickle specified conditions on information  
consistency - that is receiving consistent information increase k  
while inconsistent information resets the timer.

 From a routing perspective, inconsistent routing information should  
continue to reset the Trickle timer - but we need to add one or more  
conditions to what should cause an increase in k. For example, only  
nodes that advertise the same or similar routing depth should cause an  
increase in k. This should help with the specific example you raised  
and a node will not be suppressed by its parents or descendants.

Once we have the appropriate conditions on increasing k, then the  
value of k becomes important. k=1 is probably too constrained as it  
causes other routers to suppress their RAs and avoid being discovered  
by their neighboring nodes. In practice, we have found k=5 or even k=3  
to work well. As long as several nodes are transmitting RAs within a  
radio region, that's enough density to provide good enough receiver  
diversity for other surrounding nodes. The random factor within  
Trickle also helps us here - encouraging different nodes to transmit  
RAs at different times. The only difference is that a single node's  
transmission rate increases - which is what we really want when the  
network is dense.

Does that help?

--
Jonathan Hui

On Jun 30, 2009, at 10:16 AM, Richard Kelsey wrote:

> There are some problems with how Trickle is being used for
> RA transmissions in draft-dt-roll-rpl-00.
>
> Trickle normally uses two rules for governing
> retransmission:
>
> - Receiving an up-to-date message acts to suppress
>   transmission.
>
> - Receiving an out-of-date message acts to promote
>   transmission.
>
> This works if all devices share the same data, which makes
> it trivial to determine if an incoming message should
> suppress or promote a transmission by the receiver.  There
> is no such easy test for RAs.
>
> Section 5.3.2 lists the cases where receiving new data
> requires resetting the Trickle timer.  Receiving a 'stale'
> RA never resets the timer.  In fact, in the current
> document, any RA for a DAG acts to suppress an RA
> transmission for that DAG.  This clearly does not work
> because it causes out-of-date RAs to suppress more
> up-to-date ones.  For example, a node with many children
> will rarely transmit, even if the children have stale data.
>
> For Trickle to work, if node A hears an RA from node B, node
> A should:
>
> - act to suppress A's RA if B would make as good or better
>   a parent than A for all devices that might hear node A
>
> - act to promote A's RA if A would make a better parent
>   for B than B's current parent
>
> There often no way to determine if either of these cases
> apply, as both depend on subsequent decisions by other
> devices.  Nor is there a safe conservative choice.  If A
> resets its timer unnecessarily it transmits to no purpose.
> If A erroneously suppresses its RAs the DAG becomes
> inefficient or broken.  In the absence of a usable
> 'up-to-date' test for received RAs, I do not see how Trickle
> can work for maintaining a DAG.
>
> By the way, I suggested using Trickle in a similar role in
> draft-kelsey-roll-lip-00.  I think the same problems apply
> there as well.  Sorry about that.
>
>                                 -Richard Kelsey
> _______________________________________________
> Roll mailing list
> Roll@ietf.org
> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/roll


From pal@cs.stanford.edu  Tue Jun 30 12:43:11 2009
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On Jun 30, 2009, at 10:34 AM, Jonathan Hui wrote:

>
> Hi Richard,
>
> I agree with you that rpl-00 needs additional work w.r.t. the use of  
> Trickle. So let me try and address some of your concerns here on the  
> ML.
>
> The trick with making Trickle work properly in a routing protocol is  
> that you have to change the rules on what causes an increase in the  
> counter, k, and what causes the timer to reset. You are right, that  
> the original version of Trickle specified conditions on information  
> consistency - that is receiving consistent information increase k  
> while inconsistent information resets the timer.
>
> From a routing perspective, inconsistent routing information should  
> continue to reset the Trickle timer - but we need to add one or more  
> conditions to what should cause an increase in k.

I think you mean c? You increment c when you hear a "redundant"  
message, and transmit if c<k.

Phil

From pal@cs.stanford.edu  Tue Jun 30 12:50:59 2009
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Subject: Re: [Roll] Trickle in draft-dt-roll-rpl-00.txt
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On Jun 30, 2009, at 10:16 AM, Richard Kelsey wrote:

> There are some problems with how Trickle is being used for
> RA transmissions in draft-dt-roll-rpl-00.
>
> Trickle normally uses two rules for governing
> retransmission:
>
> - Receiving an up-to-date message acts to suppress
>   transmission.
>
> - Receiving an out-of-date message acts to promote
>   transmission.
>
> This works if all devices share the same data, which makes
> it trivial to determine if an incoming message should
> suppress or promote a transmission by the receiver.  There
> is no such easy test for RAs.

Richard,

Please take a look at this recent article on Trickle, which in part  
mentions how it can be used for eventual consistency besides version  
number agreement:

http://csl.stanford.edu/~pal/pubs/p99-levis.pdf

Also, the CTP paper describes in detail how it can be used to maintain  
a routing gradient:

http://sing.stanford.edu/pubs/sing-09-01.pdf

Although note it does not discuss k/c.

Phil


From jhui@archrock.com  Tue Jun 30 13:16:29 2009
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From: Jonathan Hui <jhui@archrock.com>
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Cc: roll@ietf.org
Subject: Re: [Roll] Trickle in draft-dt-roll-rpl-00.txt
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On Jun 30, 2009, at 12:43 PM, Philip Levis wrote:

>
> On Jun 30, 2009, at 10:34 AM, Jonathan Hui wrote:
>
>>
>> Hi Richard,
>>
>> I agree with you that rpl-00 needs additional work w.r.t. the use  
>> of Trickle. So let me try and address some of your concerns here on  
>> the ML.
>>
>> The trick with making Trickle work properly in a routing protocol  
>> is that you have to change the rules on what causes an increase in  
>> the counter, k, and what causes the timer to reset. You are right,  
>> that the original version of Trickle specified conditions on  
>> information consistency - that is receiving consistent information  
>> increase k while inconsistent information resets the timer.
>>
>> From a routing perspective, inconsistent routing information should  
>> continue to reset the Trickle timer - but we need to add one or  
>> more conditions to what should cause an increase in k.
>
> I think you mean c? You increment c when you hear a "redundant"  
> message, and transmit if c<k.

Yes. I meant c for what gets incremented and k for the threshold.

--
Jonathan Hui

>
> Phil


From richard.kelsey@ember.com  Tue Jun 30 15:24:55 2009
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Cc: roll@ietf.org
Subject: Re: [Roll] Trickle in draft-dt-roll-rpl-00.txt
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   From: Philip Levis <pal@cs.stanford.edu>
   Date: Tue, 30 Jun 2009 12:50:59 -0700

   Please take a look at this recent article on Trickle, which in part  
   mentions how it can be used for eventual consistency besides version  
   number agreement:

   http://csl.stanford.edu/~pal/pubs/p99-levis.pdf

Philip,

The issue isn't that the relevent information is more
than a version number, it is that the relevent information
isn't being taken into account.  For example, with a
network with a backbone of line-powered nodes and a bunch
of low-power nodes, you would prefer that nodes tend to
choose the line-powered nodes as parents.  Having RAs
from low-power nodes suppress RAs from the line-powered
nodes is going to work against this, which in turn means
that you want to take routing contraints into account
when deciding when to send an RA.

   Also, the CTP paper describes in detail how it can be used to
   maintain a routing gradient:

   http://sing.stanford.edu/pubs/sing-09-01.pdf

It does so by not using Trickle's suppression mechanism,
which is the part of Trickle which worries me.
Trickle-with-suppression and Trickle-without-suppression are
substantially different algorithms.

It would bother me at all if RPL became more like the
Collection Tree Protocol in other ways as well :-).

                            -Richard Kelsey

From jhui@archrock.com  Tue Jun 30 15:45:38 2009
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Subject: Re: [Roll] Trickle in draft-dt-roll-rpl-00.txt
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Hi Richard,

On Jun 30, 2009, at 3:25 PM, Richard Kelsey wrote:
> The issue isn't that the relevent information is more
> than a version number, it is that the relevent information
> isn't being taken into account.  For example, with a
> network with a backbone of line-powered nodes and a bunch
> of low-power nodes, you would prefer that nodes tend to
> choose the line-powered nodes as parents.  Having RAs
> from low-power nodes suppress RAs from the line-powered
> nodes is going to work against this, which in turn means
> that you want to take routing contraints into account
> when deciding when to send an RA.

I think we can successfully support this case. As I mentioned in my  
previous email, we just have to specify that c is incremented when  
receiving RAs indicating a similar routing cost to what will be  
advertised.

>   Also, the CTP paper describes in detail how it can be used to
>   maintain a routing gradient:
>
>   http://sing.stanford.edu/pubs/sing-09-01.pdf
>
> It does so by not using Trickle's suppression mechanism,
> which is the part of Trickle which worries me.
> Trickle-with-suppression and Trickle-without-suppression are
> substantially different algorithms.

We have and are using Trickle's suppression mechanism successfully in  
real deployments. We did run into the scenarios you have raised and  
have dealt with them simply by restricting when to increment c. In my  
view, the suppression mechanism can be critical for operation in dense  
environments - especially when using links where broadcast can be very  
expensive compared to unicast.

> It would bother me at all if RPL became more like the
> Collection Tree Protocol in other ways as well :-).

We have been working very hard to pull in the good ideas from CTP. We  
are looking into including data-based loop detection, adaptive  
beaconing, etc. Note, however, that we are concerned only with routing  
here - the forwarding aspects of CTP are out-of-scope.

--
Jonathan Hui

>
>                            -Richard Kelsey
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