From nobody Sun Mar 2 06:53:12 2014 Return-Path: X-Original-To: roll@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: roll@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id B282D1A0789 for ; Sun, 2 Mar 2014 06:53:10 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: 3.719 X-Spam-Level: *** X-Spam-Status: No, score=3.719 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_50=0.8, FH_RELAY_NODNS=1.451, RDNS_NONE=0.793, SPF_SOFTFAIL=0.665, T_TVD_MIME_NO_HEADERS=0.01] autolearn=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id azT1Bp-eMZP7 for ; Sun, 2 Mar 2014 06:53:09 -0800 (PST) Received: from tuna.sandelman.ca (unknown [IPv6:2607:f0b0:f:3:216:3eff:fe7c:d1f3]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id D9B7E1A0766 for ; Sun, 2 Mar 2014 06:53:08 -0800 (PST) Received: from sandelman.ca (obiwan.sandelman.ca [IPv6:2607:f0b0:f:2::247]) by tuna.sandelman.ca (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7D2A82002F for ; Sun, 2 Mar 2014 11:11:28 -0500 (EST) Received: by sandelman.ca (Postfix, from userid 179) id 98162647CA; Sun, 2 Mar 2014 09:53:04 -0500 (EST) Received: from sandelman.ca (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by sandelman.ca (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8908863AB2 for ; Sun, 2 Mar 2014 09:53:04 -0500 (EST) From: Michael Richardson to: roll@ietf.org In-Reply-To: <14216.1391615181@sandelman.ca> References: <14216.1391615181@sandelman.ca> X-Mailer: MH-E 8.2; nmh 1.3-dev; GNU Emacs 23.4.1 X-Face: $\n1pF)h^`}$H>Hk{L"x@)JS7<%Az}5RyS@k9X%29-lHB$Ti.V>2bi.~ehC0; <'$9xN5Ub# z!G,p`nR&p7Fz@^UXIn156S8.~^@MJ*mMsD7=QFeq%AL4m Sender: mcr@sandelman.ca Archived-At: http://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/roll/QDrRuBQf1BBHvdskLi5PxUyqh38 Subject: Re: [Roll] formulating a plan to normalize secdir reviews of ROLL applicability statements X-BeenThere: roll@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list Reply-To: Routing Over Low power and Lossy networks List-Id: Routing Over Low power and Lossy networks List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sun, 02 Mar 2014 14:53:11 -0000 --=-=-= At my request there were early security reviews that occured for the ROLL applicability statements. These were done by: industrial: Alexey Melnikov ami: Chris Lonvick home-building: Catherine Meadows in addition Stephen Kent did the review of security-threats and Dan Harkins had previously done a review of the applicability template. The result did not go as I intended, and there were some conversations that Ines and I had with the security ADs and the SecDir secretary (Tero) about how we went wrong. On Thursday the 27th, I asked the reviewers to give me some general feedback about how we could make things smoother. The summary is that we simply have not been explicit enough about the relationship between documents, and we need to insert some text into each document explaining it's relationship to other documents. I'm looking for someone to write that text: someone who has a fresh take on this, and will hopefully make explicit the things that I perhaps now regard as obvious. I did a new slide, number: 27 of http://tools.ietf.org/agenda/89/slides/slides-89-roll-1.pdf The relationship is: RFC6550 - defines some (security) mechanisms. PANA/ZigBee/15.4/.. - defines some more (security) mechanisms. roll-security-threats - details some attacks/threats, and explains whether they depend upon the deployment scenario. *-applicability - needs to detail the deployment scenario, ane explain what mechanisms are to be used to deal with threats. applicability-template - has some spaces for fill in the blank that references threats raised. Some specific todo: 1) applicability documents need to reference roll-security-threats, (some still reference security-framework document) 2) some (common) text in the applicability document needs to explain how the applicability document relates to other documents. This is what I have now, but I would certainly like improvements: >1.1. Relationship to other documents > > This applicability statement profiles a number of deployment > parameters from other protocols. It deals with base RPL trickle > parameters from RFC6550 [RFC6550], MPL trickle parameters from > RFC6206 [RFC6206], and addresses the security threats that > [I-D.ietf-roll-security-threats], details. -- Michael Richardson , Sandelman Software Works IETF ROLL WG co-chair. http://datatracker.ietf.org/wg/roll/charter/ --=-=-= Content-Type: application/pgp-signature -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.4.12 (GNU/Linux) iQCVAwUBUxNFzYqHRg3pndX9AQIkfgP9Fybpk5ykkW8JCmzlPw92tLqu4jM8X/7G 3CNL6woR3a1cXXRco3Yx5UcJD/zBRtQurmQ4LeQDbsHU++lsh4QjnBiU+E+A6aOp hLrSt7a2LASXpW3FXCIFtX4Q/v8jFsUxNSJpKDPSkVQaTqEMlnazR/TYsORDPW3U Zo6kqRBAKGM= =0lXa -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --=-=-=-- From nobody Sun Mar 2 21:42:03 2014 Return-Path: X-Original-To: roll@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: roll@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2D6AB1A0BC3 for ; Sun, 2 Mar 2014 21:41:59 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: 0.522 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=0.522 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_40=-0.001, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, FM_FORGED_GMAIL=0.622, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id cePltW_sUMam for ; Sun, 2 Mar 2014 21:41:56 -0800 (PST) Received: from mail-vc0-x231.google.com (mail-vc0-x231.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:400c:c03::231]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5B5931A0C0C for ; Sun, 2 Mar 2014 21:41:56 -0800 (PST) Received: by mail-vc0-f177.google.com with SMTP id if11so3106706vcb.36 for ; Sun, 02 Mar 2014 21:41:53 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=googlemail.com; s=20120113; h=mime-version:date:message-id:subject:from:to:cc:content-type; bh=UvmqxjzdiHu9ff09J5pkwTKccgJ/AVqMFLR2r2sZbes=; b=KOMmudQYPKSfk9Md1aZZqID6LcfIjHXTOwJVMmvnpznhJXThx325bMvLxyPDz2tSWh mZAjNr31vUXCjmT3HLfo1fq0+QGSs7IHZ23txL7H1eAJJZIQeCS3CFI9wvwPYvNnDqJM /B7a6P97jCoDv9kWacgpmM7tPYDf7sngW1K1HKf2mEKN0W50RYRGcC1l230yO/8qq/my xsE5s6tJeI7CxIjK98Yi1EokZH8xI7hRHXfyvpyDs7yvqd4UzP4NFctHB7fmq5LfOAX+ ApBY4IybeDRbUL++uiiNHbF0BD1boP3IwdVKo1pnQiSF/4FLqrXjQ8IvNlkTHhP6eN9I nJEA== MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Received: by 10.220.11.141 with SMTP id t13mr5436033vct.30.1393825313241; Sun, 02 Mar 2014 21:41:53 -0800 (PST) Received: by 10.221.16.3 with HTTP; Sun, 2 Mar 2014 21:41:52 -0800 (PST) Date: Mon, 3 Mar 2014 02:41:52 -0300 Message-ID: From: Ines Robles To: roll Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary=001a11c3c970accffe04f3ad3e19 Archived-At: http://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/roll/QnM6vf8PHj3x8T-HKv8cfvUUKUA Cc: Michael Richardson Subject: [Roll] Consensus Call on abandoning draft-ietf-roll-rpl-industrial-applicability X-BeenThere: roll@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list Reply-To: Routing Over Low power and Lossy networks List-Id: Routing Over Low power and Lossy networks List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 03 Mar 2014 05:41:59 -0000 --001a11c3c970accffe04f3ad3e19 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=001a11c3c970accff804f3ad3e17 --001a11c3c970accff804f3ad3e17 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 *Hi,We start a consensus call on abandoning draft-ietf-roll-rpl-industrial-applicability , this call is from 03/03/2014 to 03/10/2014.Please let us know your opinion on this topic.Additionally, this topic is going to be discussed on Thursday 6th in the IETF 89. If you want to participate remotely, please follow http://www.ietf.org/meeting/89/remote-participation.html .Thank you in advance,Michael & Ines.* ---------- Forwarded message ---------- From: Michael Richardson Date: 2014-02-05 12:32 GMT-03:00 Subject: [Roll] proposal to abandon draft-ietf-roll-rpl-industrial-applicability To: Routing Over Low power and Lossy networks , tisch < 6tisch@ietf.org> Last summer during the chartering process of 6tisch, I asked if 6tisch wanted or or ought to adopt draft-ietf-roll-rpl-industrial-applicability. We did not reach a clear conclusion, and agreed to revisit the question later on. EXEC SUMMARY: I want to propose that the ROLL WG abandon this document as not particularly useful to real industry. If this document normatively references 6tisch, it will in essence be obsoleted by the documents it references. If the document does no normatively reference 6tisch, it may have no value. 6tisch will not adopt this document, as it has equivalent documents already planned. The value of this document may have been simply to make the motiviation for creating 6tisch clear. AUDIENCE: First, I want to recognize that the group of people working on 6tisch are people who think that they can not deploy into industrial settings without availability of deterministic behaviour. Thus I want to acknowledge that asking 6tisch people if deterministic behaviour is useful is preaching to the choir. Second, I would ask that those of you who are in other SDOs that deal with this kind of thing (IEC, IEEE, ZigbeeIP) where I, a non-member, can not post, to please forward this email and/or a link to the thread. BACKGROUND: The document deals with using RPL in Industrial settings, and does a very good job of explaining how things operate in that space. The document includes a diagram in section 2.1.1, on page 7: > It appears from the above sections that whether and the way RPL can > be applied for a given flow depends both on the deployment scenario > and on the class of application / traffic. At a high level, this can > be summarized by the following matrix: > +---------------------+------------------------------------------------+ > | Phase \ Class | 0 1 2 3 4 5 | > +=====================+================================================+ > | Construction | X X X X | > +---------------------+------------------------------------------------+ > | Planned startup | X X X X | > +---------------------+------------------------------------------------+ > | Normal operation | ? ? ? | > +---------------------+------------------------------------------------+ > | Planned shutdown | X X X X | > +---------------------+------------------------------------------------+ > |Plant decommissioning| X X X X | > +---------------------+------------------------------------------------+ > | Recovery and repair | X X X X X X | > +---------------------+------------------------------------------------+ > > > ? : typically usable for all but higher-rate classes 0,1 PS traffic === An X denotes that a non-deterministric LLN using RPL could be used in uring many phases of a plant, but it can not be used for class 0,1 traffic during "Normal Operation". That is, an RPL LLN is useful during exceptional times, but not during normal times. Whether normal operation can be served by a deterministric (6tisch) network, or whether it will require wired operation is clearly going to be decided on a case-by-case basis. QUESTION: The group of deployments for which "Normal Operation" can be satisfied by a 6tisch based solution, would in general be covered by 6tisch. In particular whatever (security) bootstrap process used by 6tisch would be used during the other phases, so any security analysis done in this document is not useful. If the deployment can not be satisfied by 6tisch (e.g Normal Operation requires wires, etc.), then this document may well have some value. In that case, this document might have value, but we have not at present identified the constituency that would be willing to work on this document. Does such a consitutency exist? If it does not, then I suggest that it is not worth the cost to the IETF to publish this document. -- Michael Richardson , Sandelman Software Works IETF ROLL WG co-chair. http://datatracker.ietf.org/wg/roll/charter/ --001a11c3c970accff804f3ad3e17 Content-Type: text/html; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

Hi,<= /b>



We start a cons= ensus call on abandoning draft-ietf-roll-rpl-industrial-applicability

Please let us know your op= inion on this topic.


Additionally, this topic i= s going to be discussed on Thursday 6th in the IETF 89. If you want to part= icipate remotely, please follow http://www.ietf.org/meeting/89/remote-par= ticipation.html.


Thank you in advance,


Michael & Ines.=


---------- Forwarded message ----------<= br>From: Michael Richardson <mcr+ietf@sandelman.ca>
Date: 2014-02-05 12:32 GMT-03:00
Subject: [Roll] proposal to abandon dra= ft-ietf-roll-rpl-industrial-applicability
To: Routing Over Low power and= Lossy networks <roll@ietf.org>,= tisch <6tisch@ietf.org>



Last summer during the chartering process of 6tisch, I asked if 6tisch want= ed
or or ought to adopt draft-ietf-roll-rpl-industrial-applicability. =A0We di= d
not reach a clear conclusion, and agreed to revisit the question later on.<= br>
EXEC SUMMARY:
=A0 I want to propose that the ROLL WG abandon this document as not particu= larly
=A0 useful to real industry. =A0 If this document normatively references 6t= isch,
=A0 it will in essence be obsoleted by the documents it references. =A0If t= he
=A0 document does no normatively reference 6tisch, it may have no value.
=A0 6tisch will not adopt this document, as it has equivalent documents alr= eady
=A0 planned. =A0 The value of this document may have been simply to make th= e
=A0 motiviation for creating 6tisch clear.


AUDIENCE:
=A0 First, I want to recognize that the group of people working on 6tisch a= re
=A0 people who think that they can not deploy into industrial settings with= out
=A0 availability of deterministic behaviour. =A0Thus I want to acknowledge = that
=A0 asking 6tisch people if deterministic behaviour is useful is preaching = to
=A0 the choir.

=A0 Second, I would ask that those of you who are in other SDOs that deal w= ith
=A0 this kind of thing (IEC, IEEE, ZigbeeIP) where I, a non-member, can not=
=A0 post, to please forward this email and/or a link to the thread.

BACKGROUND:
=A0 The document deals with using RPL in Industrial settings, and does a ve= ry
=A0 good job of explaining how things operate in that space.

=A0 The document includes a diagram in section 2.1.1, on page 7:

=A0 > It appears from the above sections that whether and the way RPL ca= n
=A0 > be applied for a given flow depends both on the deployment scenari= o
=A0 > and on the class of application / traffic. =A0At a high level, thi= s can
=A0 > be summarized by the following matrix:

=A0 > +---------------------+-------------------------------------------= -----+
=A0 > | =A0 Phase \ =A0Class =A0 =A0| =A0 0 =A0 =A0 =A0 1 =A0 =A0 =A0 2 = =A0 =A0 =A0 3 =A0 =A0 =A0 4 =A0 =A0 =A0 5 =A0 =A0|
=A0 > +=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D+= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D+
=A0 > | =A0 Construction =A0 =A0 =A0| =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 = =A0 X =A0 =A0 =A0 X =A0 =A0 =A0 X =A0 =A0 =A0 X =A0 =A0|
=A0 > +---------------------+-------------------------------------------= -----+
=A0 > | =A0 Planned startup =A0 | =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 X = =A0 =A0 =A0 X =A0 =A0 =A0 X =A0 =A0 =A0 X =A0 =A0|
=A0 > +---------------------+-------------------------------------------= -----+
=A0 > | =A0 Normal operation =A0| =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 = =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 ? =A0 =A0 =A0 ? =A0 =A0 =A0 ? =A0 =A0|
=A0 > +---------------------+-------------------------------------------= -----+
=A0 > | =A0 Planned shutdown =A0| =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 X = =A0 =A0 =A0 X =A0 =A0 =A0 X =A0 =A0 =A0 X =A0 =A0|
=A0 > +---------------------+-------------------------------------------= -----+
=A0 > |Plant decommissioning| =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 X =A0 = =A0 =A0 X =A0 =A0 =A0 X =A0 =A0 =A0 X =A0 =A0|
=A0 > +---------------------+-------------------------------------------= -----+
=A0 > | Recovery and repair | =A0 X =A0 =A0 =A0 X =A0 =A0 =A0 X =A0 =A0 = =A0 X =A0 =A0 =A0 X =A0 =A0 =A0 X =A0 =A0|
=A0 > +---------------------+-------------------------------------------= -----+
=A0 >
=A0 >
=A0 > =A0? : typically usable for all but higher-rate classes 0,1 PS tra= ffic
=A0 =3D=3D=3D

=A0 An X denotes that a non-deterministric LLN using RPL could be used in =A0 uring many phases of a plant, but it can not be used for class 0,1 traf= fic
=A0 during "Normal Operation". =A0 That is, an RPL LLN is useful = during exceptional
=A0 times, but not during normal times. =A0 Whether normal operation can be= served
=A0 by a deterministric (6tisch) network, or whether it will require wired<= br> =A0 operation is clearly going to be decided on a case-by-case basis.

QUESTION:
=A0 The group of deployments for which "Normal Operation" can be = satisfied by a
=A0 6tisch based solution, would in general be covered by 6tisch. =A0In
=A0 particular whatever (security) bootstrap process used by 6tisch would b= e
=A0 used during the other phases, so any security analysis done in this
=A0 document is not useful.

=A0 If the deployment can not be satisfied by 6tisch (e.g Normal Operation<= br> =A0 requires wires, etc.), then this document may well have some value.
=A0 In that case, this document might have value, but we have not at presen= t
=A0 identified the constituency that would be willing to work on this docum= ent.

=A0 Does such a consitutency exist?
=A0 If it does not, then I suggest that it is not worth the cost to the IET= F
=A0 to publish this document.


--
Michael Richardson <mcr+IETF@= sandelman.ca>, Sandelman Software Works
IETF ROLL WG co-chair. =A0 =A0http://datatracker.ietf.org/wg/roll/charter/<= /a>

--001a11c3c970accff804f3ad3e17-- --001a11c3c970accffe04f3ad3e19 Content-Type: application/pgp-signature Content-Disposition: attachment Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 X-Attachment-Id: 472cbff874196a30_0.0.1 LS0tLS1CRUdJTiBQR1AgU0lHTkFUVVJFLS0tLS0NClZlcnNpb246IEdudVBHIHYxLjQuMTIgKEdO VS9MaW51eCkNCg0KaVFDVkF3VUJVdkpab1lxSFJnM3BuZFg5QVFLRzNBUUE2bE90aU43N0ZMSHFT T2F6OW45RHExaUE0Zm5yRGdJOA0KejZJZCtZM0dHQno4OXRsUUVmaGJqcW42QzVyendQMHJ2elEw bXI5RTlRY0xHSUVlcHB4WEJIRGM4Q2ViaXJQSg0KZjE0MnBCM0RvOEJuTUtPeWljWHROaDJ0VFdl QVlacFg5OVBIakIyZnpVZHpSbzhOZHROK1lHb1R2RFBKY2lXQQ0KbkdUaG1VeVpJS289DQo9Y1cv ZQ0KLS0tLS1FTkQgUEdQIFNJR05BVFVSRS0tLS0t --001a11c3c970accffe04f3ad3e19-- From nobody Mon Mar 3 02:01:35 2014 Return-Path: X-Original-To: roll@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: roll@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9B3AF1A0D69 for ; Mon, 3 Mar 2014 02:01:28 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id ErGXLOXa_qOs for ; Mon, 3 Mar 2014 02:01:25 -0800 (PST) Received: from mail-yk0-x22b.google.com (mail-yk0-x22b.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:4002:c07::22b]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id AC4971A0D56 for ; Mon, 3 Mar 2014 02:01:25 -0800 (PST) Received: by mail-yk0-f171.google.com with SMTP id q9so9966830ykb.2 for ; Mon, 03 Mar 2014 02:01:22 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20120113; h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:date:message-id:subject:from:to :cc:content-type; bh=Z7Gl6mfrbrilKlorwY0I3U1sy+MQQYFBR+iHoW3ziVQ=; b=fIX/sjyeQFTzRd8QP8q2A2K5RleVwUFRumfX2hfRfzWbZe+hlSE6ToI8o6/Jts28i4 Q+B1pCgX3X1ghAOUku7lLU4cX8okjyVjKVkd6rsoBbdQUPZb+OoIylmCc1dO+WWhEP2X pLMRZPXb9Bl8FJtv5Vx6mh7ksATIODxeHLUOEngSInFLSsKmLuwW8q0tQQcFmR3PxWTR ZwzBYyOYNeRs6971pjldDLNjhblK20zKfTuXtjx3RicrjX3NiatPY4dLNRGUK9TfGY9Q FSYzdu7BgI6+WgQOBGCUU7ngc603lo3LWPwsCjCjjR9oq48PsJsZiOFHMLnYO4DdeD9P Qc6A== MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Received: by 10.236.100.235 with SMTP id z71mr19520039yhf.43.1393840882703; Mon, 03 Mar 2014 02:01:22 -0800 (PST) Received: by 10.170.202.7 with HTTP; Mon, 3 Mar 2014 02:01:22 -0800 (PST) In-Reply-To: References: Date: Mon, 3 Mar 2014 11:01:22 +0100 Message-ID: From: Abdussalam Baryun To: Routing Over Low power and Lossy networks Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Archived-At: http://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/roll/qm2PGF5WOUZfIKsGZmpsPB9EMFs Cc: Michael Richardson Subject: Re: [Roll] Consensus Call on abandoning draft-ietf-roll-rpl-industrial-applicability X-BeenThere: roll@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list Reply-To: Routing Over Low power and Lossy networks List-Id: Routing Over Low power and Lossy networks List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 03 Mar 2014 10:01:28 -0000 Hi Ines, I don't agree to make quick decisions or consensus. Why is this draft not useful to industry? if we know what was the industry respond, then we will be able to decide. we should not confuse purposes of this WG with another WG, may be the some industry companies we speak to are still confused with new technologies. Please help, Best Regards AB On 3/3/14, Ines Robles wrote: > *Hi,We start a consensus call on abandoning > draft-ietf-roll-rpl-industrial-applicability > , > this call is from 03/03/2014 to 03/10/2014.Please let us know your opinion > on this topic.Additionally, this topic is going to be discussed on Thursday > 6th in the IETF 89. If you want to participate remotely, please follow > http://www.ietf.org/meeting/89/remote-participation.html > .Thank you in > advance,Michael & Ines.* > ---------- Forwarded message ---------- > From: Michael Richardson > Date: 2014-02-05 12:32 GMT-03:00 > Subject: [Roll] proposal to abandon > draft-ietf-roll-rpl-industrial-applicability > To: Routing Over Low power and Lossy networks , tisch < > 6tisch@ietf.org> > > > > Last summer during the chartering process of 6tisch, I asked if 6tisch > wanted > or or ought to adopt draft-ietf-roll-rpl-industrial-applicability. We did > not reach a clear conclusion, and agreed to revisit the question later on. > > EXEC SUMMARY: > I want to propose that the ROLL WG abandon this document as not > particularly > useful to real industry. If this document normatively references > 6tisch, > it will in essence be obsoleted by the documents it references. If the > document does no normatively reference 6tisch, it may have no value. > > 6tisch will not adopt this document, as it has equivalent documents > already > planned. The value of this document may have been simply to make the > motiviation for creating 6tisch clear. > > > AUDIENCE: > First, I want to recognize that the group of people working on 6tisch are > people who think that they can not deploy into industrial settings > without > availability of deterministic behaviour. Thus I want to acknowledge that > asking 6tisch people if deterministic behaviour is useful is preaching to > the choir. > > Second, I would ask that those of you who are in other SDOs that deal > with > this kind of thing (IEC, IEEE, ZigbeeIP) where I, a non-member, can not > post, to please forward this email and/or a link to the thread. > > BACKGROUND: > The document deals with using RPL in Industrial settings, and does a very > good job of explaining how things operate in that space. > > The document includes a diagram in section 2.1.1, on page 7: > > > It appears from the above sections that whether and the way RPL can > > be applied for a given flow depends both on the deployment scenario > > and on the class of application / traffic. At a high level, this can > > be summarized by the following matrix: > > > > +---------------------+------------------------------------------------+ > > | Phase \ Class | 0 1 2 3 4 5 > | > > > +=====================+================================================+ > > | Construction | X X X X > | > > > +---------------------+------------------------------------------------+ > > | Planned startup | X X X X > | > > > +---------------------+------------------------------------------------+ > > | Normal operation | ? ? ? > | > > > +---------------------+------------------------------------------------+ > > | Planned shutdown | X X X X > | > > > +---------------------+------------------------------------------------+ > > |Plant decommissioning| X X X X > | > > > +---------------------+------------------------------------------------+ > > | Recovery and repair | X X X X X X > | > > > +---------------------+------------------------------------------------+ > > > > > > ? : typically usable for all but higher-rate classes 0,1 PS traffic > === > > An X denotes that a non-deterministric LLN using RPL could be used in > uring many phases of a plant, but it can not be used for class 0,1 > traffic > during "Normal Operation". That is, an RPL LLN is useful during > exceptional > times, but not during normal times. Whether normal operation can be > served > by a deterministric (6tisch) network, or whether it will require wired > operation is clearly going to be decided on a case-by-case basis. > > QUESTION: > The group of deployments for which "Normal Operation" can be satisfied by > a > 6tisch based solution, would in general be covered by 6tisch. In > particular whatever (security) bootstrap process used by 6tisch would be > used during the other phases, so any security analysis done in this > document is not useful. > > If the deployment can not be satisfied by 6tisch (e.g Normal Operation > requires wires, etc.), then this document may well have some value. > In that case, this document might have value, but we have not at present > identified the constituency that would be willing to work on this > document. > > Does such a consitutency exist? > If it does not, then I suggest that it is not worth the cost to the IETF > to publish this document. > > > -- > Michael Richardson , Sandelman Software Works > IETF ROLL WG co-chair. http://datatracker.ietf.org/wg/roll/charter/ > From nobody Mon Mar 3 02:22:34 2014 Return-Path: X-Original-To: roll@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: roll@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3EB011A0DBA for ; Mon, 3 Mar 2014 02:22:33 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: 1.019 X-Spam-Level: * X-Spam-Status: No, score=1.019 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, FH_RELAY_NODNS=1.451, RDNS_NONE=0.793, SPF_SOFTFAIL=0.665, T_TVD_MIME_NO_HEADERS=0.01] autolearn=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id Ach9h7NV0yim for ; Mon, 3 Mar 2014 02:22:32 -0800 (PST) Received: from tuna.sandelman.ca (unknown [IPv6:2607:f0b0:f:3:216:3eff:fe7c:d1f3]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id ECCBA1A0DE9 for ; Mon, 3 Mar 2014 02:22:31 -0800 (PST) Received: from sandelman.ca (desk.marajade.sandelman.ca [209.87.252.247]) by tuna.sandelman.ca (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7DE8F20030; Mon, 3 Mar 2014 06:40:55 -0500 (EST) Received: by sandelman.ca (Postfix, from userid 179) id A3D35647C9; Mon, 3 Mar 2014 05:22:28 -0500 (EST) Received: from sandelman.ca (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by sandelman.ca (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8ED2B63AB2; Mon, 3 Mar 2014 05:22:28 -0500 (EST) From: Michael Richardson To: Abdussalam Baryun In-Reply-To: References: X-Mailer: MH-E 8.2; nmh 1.3-dev; GNU Emacs 23.4.1 X-Face: $\n1pF)h^`}$H>Hk{L"x@)JS7<%Az}5RyS@k9X%29-lHB$Ti.V>2bi.~ehC0; <'$9xN5Ub# z!G,p`nR&p7Fz@^UXIn156S8.~^@MJ*mMsD7=QFeq%AL4m Sender: mcr@sandelman.ca Archived-At: http://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/roll/b3uzE2iYwH8FWxH-K1ZStkLqWAs Cc: Routing Over Low power and Lossy networks Subject: Re: [Roll] Consensus Call on abandoning draft-ietf-roll-rpl-industrial-applicability X-BeenThere: roll@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list Reply-To: Routing Over Low power and Lossy networks List-Id: Routing Over Low power and Lossy networks List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 03 Mar 2014 10:22:33 -0000 --=-=-= Abdussalam Baryun wrote: > I don't agree to make quick decisions or consensus. Why is this draft > not useful to industry? if we know what was the industry respond, then > we will be able to decide. we should not confuse purposes of this WG > with another WG, may be the some industry companies we speak to are > still confused with new technologies. Please help, 1) The purpose of this call is to get that feedback. If you have some information that the WG does not yet know, or can share this request with someone from that industry who can respond, please do so. 2) We asked the question several weeks ago, but it was not in the form of a consensus call. This discussion first started in August 2013. This has not been a quick decision. 3) Should an interested party show up that wants has a way to use RPL in industrial settings *without* 6tisch (or not using 15.4e), then we can re-introduce a document, and it would be authored by someone who is actually involved. -- Michael Richardson , Sandelman Software Works IETF ROLL WG co-chair. http://datatracker.ietf.org/wg/roll/charter/ --=-=-= Content-Type: application/pgp-signature -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.4.12 (GNU/Linux) iQCVAwUBUxRX4YqHRg3pndX9AQLADwQAhYv3hFZfwuDwbEF2iY2gGqtRTesH+fqC tZd+G64olvyRKUajKmPKRCFsTe7o8RmPANPkJRjv+sanYVL00hKGf7PSEpT7TvQ6 YBW81cuI+OVlhzvNvJecg6HE/LycpRGLT69TucHuoU4PU8nNOeJOOkXmT04w100+ yZw6kPlHXwc= =CIdt -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --=-=-=-- From nobody Mon Mar 3 19:04:35 2014 Return-Path: X-Original-To: roll@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: roll@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 08A201A02DF for ; Mon, 3 Mar 2014 19:04:34 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.377 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.377 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, FM_FORGED_GMAIL=0.622, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id ajBCR7bveEx0 for ; Mon, 3 Mar 2014 19:04:32 -0800 (PST) Received: from mail-ve0-x232.google.com (mail-ve0-x232.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:400c:c01::232]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id B77EC1A0126 for ; Mon, 3 Mar 2014 19:04:32 -0800 (PST) Received: by mail-ve0-f178.google.com with SMTP id jw12so1996825veb.37 for ; Mon, 03 Mar 2014 19:04:29 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=googlemail.com; s=20120113; h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:date:message-id:subject:from:to :cc:content-type; bh=UI9gBnh9kt24cYWclwjJPcSz7eDYffONCLyIuSqTj9I=; b=WOyGBLAOKFARLVfAOyKX64RozsiaTUdxDowng1ydNJOkjK4kFuOM0DrTMlsVbG4LJW qOgVy3ZW6EUndczvKeWnwy+SwJYdn5hUcjkvP3DrCXvKRjJAOBBPFgEDmvV9iEuXCRAg h9H8SqTee/Dh4lT8hufqQ8wWmcSuwMkiHkbFYEprbZq2zYuoshM20y0cBFqwLrH9OxNe lXK1QV6glZ41xQxnyInAIiP+SpGjSB+iZID41q5M1KvKQZiV0iLybSfkPNn5IqLB9Xmn v2FmpVuuAhT8DgHqLdR3mzzCKn/TNYaTQZ0FksqpT+lqGdm+Jxd7JCZrRFKIgtfge1wA JUuA== MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Received: by 10.58.123.70 with SMTP id ly6mr651468veb.26.1393902267093; Mon, 03 Mar 2014 19:04:27 -0800 (PST) Received: by 10.221.16.3 with HTTP; Mon, 3 Mar 2014 19:04:26 -0800 (PST) In-Reply-To: <20307.1393842148@sandelman.ca> References: <20307.1393842148@sandelman.ca> Date: Tue, 4 Mar 2014 00:04:26 -0300 Message-ID: From: Ines Robles To: Routing Over Low power and Lossy networks Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=089e0118490e7b574a04f3bf2983 Archived-At: http://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/roll/OOENT5AIQkeONAWITcJMWFIUTG0 Subject: Re: [Roll] Consensus Call on abandoning draft-ietf-roll-rpl-industrial-applicability X-BeenThere: roll@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list Reply-To: Routing Over Low power and Lossy networks List-Id: Routing Over Low power and Lossy networks List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 04 Mar 2014 03:04:34 -0000 --089e0118490e7b574a04f3bf2983 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 *Hi, Threads about it: http://www.ietf.org/mail-archive/web/roll/current/msg08087.html http://www.ietf.org/mail-archive/web/roll/current/msg08458.html Thanks and Regards,* 2014-03-03 7:22 GMT-03:00 Michael Richardson : > > Abdussalam Baryun wrote: > > I don't agree to make quick decisions or consensus. Why is this draft > > not useful to industry? if we know what was the industry respond, > then > > we will be able to decide. we should not confuse purposes of this WG > > with another WG, may be the some industry companies we speak to are > > still confused with new technologies. Please help, > > 1) The purpose of this call is to get that feedback. If you have some > information that the WG does not yet know, or can share this request > with > someone from that industry who can respond, please do so. > > 2) We asked the question several weeks ago, but it was not in the form of a > consensus call. > This discussion first started in August 2013. This has not been a quick > decision. > > 3) Should an interested party show up that wants has a way to use RPL in > industrial settings *without* 6tisch (or not using 15.4e), then we can > re-introduce a document, and it would be authored by someone who is > actually involved. > > -- > Michael Richardson , Sandelman Software Works > IETF ROLL WG co-chair. http://datatracker.ietf.org/wg/roll/charter/ > > > _______________________________________________ > Roll mailing list > Roll@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/roll > > --089e0118490e7b574a04f3bf2983 Content-Type: text/html; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

Hi,


Threads about it:

http://www.ietf.org/mail-= archive/web/roll/current/msg08087.html=


http://www.ietf.org/mail-= archive/web/roll/current/msg08458.html=


Thanks and Regards,=


2014-03-03 7:= 22 GMT-03:00 Michael Richardson <mcr+ietf@sandelman.ca>:=

Abdussalam Baryun <abdussalambaryun@gmail.com> wrote:
=A0 =A0 > I don't agree to make quick decisions or consensus. Why is= this draft
=A0 =A0 > not useful to industry? if we know what was the industry respo= nd, then
=A0 =A0 > we will be able to decide. we should not confuse purposes of t= his WG
=A0 =A0 > with another WG, may be the some industry companies we speak t= o are
=A0 =A0 > still confused with new technologies. Please help,

1) The purpose of this call is to get that feedback. If you have some=
=A0 =A0information that the WG does not yet know, =A0or can share this requ= est with
=A0 =A0someone from that industry who can respond, please do so.

2) We asked the question several weeks ago, but it was not in the form of a=
=A0 =A0consensus call.
=A0 =A0This discussion first started in August 2013. =A0This has not been a= quick
=A0 =A0decision.

3) Should an interested party show up that wants has a way to use RPL in =A0 =A0industrial settings *without* 6tisch (or not using 15.4e), then we c= an
=A0 =A0re-introduce a document, and it would be authored by someone who is<= br> =A0 =A0actually involved.

--
Michael Richardson <mcr+IETF@sandelman.ca>, Sandelman Software Works
IETF ROLL WG co-chair. =A0 =A0http://datatracker.ietf.org/wg/roll/charter/<= /a>


_______________________________________________
Roll mailing list
Roll@ietf.org
ht= tps://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/roll


--089e0118490e7b574a04f3bf2983-- From nobody Thu Mar 6 03:06:01 2014 Return-Path: X-Original-To: roll@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: roll@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id CD53C1A01AE for ; Thu, 6 Mar 2014 03:05:59 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.377 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.377 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, FM_FORGED_GMAIL=0.622, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id OVJuqcl9vSti for ; Thu, 6 Mar 2014 03:05:58 -0800 (PST) Received: from mail-ve0-x22e.google.com (mail-ve0-x22e.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:400c:c01::22e]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 65BED1A025F for ; Thu, 6 Mar 2014 03:05:58 -0800 (PST) Received: by mail-ve0-f174.google.com with SMTP id oz11so2396401veb.19 for ; Thu, 06 Mar 2014 03:05:54 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=googlemail.com; s=20120113; h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:date:message-id:subject:from:to :cc:content-type; bh=BxaWbEzAsHo4aLLuPcxBl6YnmxjVJnmpnFYJx8UUbF4=; b=X3LcRb2ljuP5R+3pnc+WoGhsEkxqwJ7k5BciAcG02MbRxM3He0pJqz2y9mtBze9rkn pHabGRB2LKPLhsc41ac0gilxOOO/m+5SfTJW1XA7nhESefVaCJOlRM7wmu7LdcYmoTJu I6uTDUt/iSX4o68XAJzuIAvH4jUIibvCzk4SaqVSQYapKnfu/QYjiN33CBtIjc700hP8 Y5KqE+ba9zD5S9H35z+lSoWWyvEPGtH/Xc0RDu6F2GaeIYG9GUnHDPcJgtdo5LhGxc9H hNZ363xTE4aq/BQhzCLR/ONZBlEiEEcjtG5Vwuswf8MtVpF8n3eSmOYnOYMogF5EA2Er jgEA== MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Received: by 10.220.249.6 with SMTP id mi6mr78531vcb.33.1394103954279; Thu, 06 Mar 2014 03:05:54 -0800 (PST) Received: by 10.221.16.3 with HTTP; Thu, 6 Mar 2014 03:05:54 -0800 (PST) In-Reply-To: References: Date: Thu, 6 Mar 2014 08:05:54 -0300 Message-ID: From: Ines Robles To: roll Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=089e013a062cf9922404f3ee1eb1 Archived-At: http://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/roll/AP1ZPSwOSxg0g7d8dWF-3it-5J8 Cc: Michael Richardson Subject: Re: [Roll] IETF 89 - Slides - final version X-BeenThere: roll@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list Reply-To: Routing Over Low power and Lossy networks List-Id: Routing Over Low power and Lossy networks List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 06 Mar 2014 11:06:00 -0000 --089e013a062cf9922404f3ee1eb1 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Hi, The slides were just updated, please find the new version: http://www.ietf.org/proceedings/89/slides/slides-89-roll-1.pdf Thanks and Regards, Michael & Ines. 2014-02-28 17:12 GMT-03:00 Ines Robles : > Hi > > Please find the final version of the slides: > > http://www.ietf.org/proceedings/89/slides/slides-89-roll-1.pdf > > Thank you very much to all the authors for delivering the slides and the > updates on time. We really appreciate it. > > Kind Regards, > > Michael & Ines. > --089e013a062cf9922404f3ee1eb1 Content-Type: text/html; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Hi,

The slides were just updated,= please find the new version:=A0http://www.ietf.org/proceedings/89/slides/s= lides-89-roll-1.pdf

Thanks and Regards,
--089e013a062cf9922404f3ee1eb1-- From nobody Thu Mar 6 04:02:53 2014 Return-Path: X-Original-To: roll@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: roll@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id CA2641A008D for ; Thu, 6 Mar 2014 04:02:49 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.377 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.377 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, FM_FORGED_GMAIL=0.622, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id BH8pVE2yUbl6 for ; Thu, 6 Mar 2014 04:02:48 -0800 (PST) Received: from mail-ve0-x22e.google.com (mail-ve0-x22e.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:400c:c01::22e]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3AE201A0272 for ; Thu, 6 Mar 2014 04:02:48 -0800 (PST) Received: by mail-ve0-f174.google.com with SMTP id oz11so2490671veb.33 for ; Thu, 06 Mar 2014 04:02:44 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=googlemail.com; s=20120113; h=mime-version:date:message-id:subject:from:to:content-type; bh=V98Mh7+IImbcrPiUQPfKvLxENocfLxKv43KO/J54M0U=; b=fplztsKuoJz+Dz/p5l/Zq/CPo9iaBWosqNt37xi3hV8v+NE0LyUB2CpCGPp6BTc9Th I18nSv8n1Ixjs5LNWKsTjsQsWniDhhPLw7PPIev/n9olggsyV/vqUOIq6zEO0PPlJwyU mjB0xGdEUx/46ezyBDTK8HK2uB5TMYD82orYDz0kQhfCm5QUPrQvItyyruGHlyFQG/jZ LpHLCFix+sxNAreZlhtn2HQB5Nsn1urX8X5HbJfZOi1nnAp2HXKOF9zrSIuq0S5oNF3O KnvyD6TIaEcTNpxKDidSlxmHS620pd/w7r5TEFPggxQfGVQzU+roybwI4YynPJexoj5A w8VA== MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Received: by 10.221.74.65 with SMTP id yv1mr305510vcb.31.1394107364166; Thu, 06 Mar 2014 04:02:44 -0800 (PST) Received: by 10.221.16.3 with HTTP; Thu, 6 Mar 2014 04:02:43 -0800 (PST) Date: Thu, 6 Mar 2014 09:02:43 -0300 Message-ID: From: Ines Robles To: roll , Michael Richardson Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=001a1136563838512504f3eeea33 Archived-At: http://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/roll/_qzlSXKW6m9p0bM90ZdZwaSfkc4 Subject: [Roll] Meeting materials - Slides updated X-BeenThere: roll@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list Reply-To: Routing Over Low power and Lossy networks List-Id: Routing Over Low power and Lossy networks List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 06 Mar 2014 12:02:50 -0000 --001a1136563838512504f3eeea33 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Hi, Before the meeting today, please check that you have the last version of the slides, it was just updated. http://www.ietf.org/proceedings/89/slides/slides-89-roll-1.pdf Remember that you can participate remotely today: [ http://www.ietf.org/meeting/89/remote-participation.html] Remote Participation - Jabber Room: roll@jabber.ietf.org - Meetecho: http://www.meetecho.com/ietf89/roll Etherpad: http://tools.ietf.org/wg/roll/minutes Audio Streaming: http://ietf89streaming.dnsalias.net/ietf/ietf898.m3u Thanks and Regards, Michael & Ines. --001a1136563838512504f3eeea33 Content-Type: text/html; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable


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--001a1136563838512504f3eeea33-- From nobody Thu Mar 6 09:22:57 2014 Return-Path: X-Original-To: roll@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: roll@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 04CA41A02CE for ; Thu, 6 Mar 2014 09:22:50 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -0.352 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-0.352 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, HELO_EQ_NL=0.55, HOST_EQ_NL=1.545, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, RP_MATCHES_RCVD=-0.547] autolearn=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id w3lVD6uOqcNK for ; Thu, 6 Mar 2014 09:22:43 -0800 (PST) Received: from smtp-vbr2.xs4all.nl (smtp-vbr2.xs4all.nl [194.109.24.22]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 076141A0238 for ; Thu, 6 Mar 2014 09:22:41 -0800 (PST) Received: from roundcube.xs4all.nl (roundcube1.xs4all.net [194.109.20.195]) by smtp-vbr2.xs4all.nl (8.13.8/8.13.8) with ESMTP id s26HMbg6025724 for ; Thu, 6 Mar 2014 18:22:37 +0100 (CET) (envelope-from stokcons@xs4all.nl) Received: from wireless-v6.meeting.ietf.org ([2001:67c:370:160:7413:34f7:f8a8:5b8]) by roundcube.xs4all.nl with HTTP (HTTP/1.1 POST); Thu, 06 Mar 2014 18:22:36 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="=_f2d1f231d3dc76b012706d82d007c772" Date: Thu, 06 Mar 2014 18:22:36 +0100 From: peter van der Stok To: roll@ietf.org Organization: vanderstok consultancy Mail-Reply-To: consultancy@vanderstok.org Message-ID: X-Sender: stokcons@xs4all.nl (7exIJUL6y7ZOIdjLH/5sWIUyi+4jSuEr) User-Agent: XS4ALL Webmail X-Virus-Scanned: by XS4ALL Virus Scanner Archived-At: http://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/roll/1conbL-msWcQXgFlzrB7qr7m3uA Subject: [Roll] MPL multicast scope X-BeenThere: roll@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list Reply-To: consultancy@vanderstok.org, Routing Over Low power and Lossy networks List-Id: Routing Over Low power and Lossy networks List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 06 Mar 2014 17:22:50 -0000 --=_f2d1f231d3dc76b012706d82d007c772 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8; format=flowed Some time ago there was a discussion about the scope of MPL using multicast addresses with realm-local scope (3). It is agreed that multicast scope covers a whole mesh network such as for example a lowpan on IEEE 802.15.4. The wish exists that an MPL multicast with a admin-local scope (4) can pass through routers and encompass for example multiple meshes. It is not specified under which conditions such a multicast is passed through a router. Attached my draft, draft-vanderstok-roll-admin-local-policy-00, that specifies this behavior. I am looking forward to reactions from the wg to see whether this is the right direction. Many thanks, peter -- Peter van der Stok mailto: consultancy@vanderstok.org www: www.vanderstok.org tel NL: +31(0)492474673 F: +33(0)966015248 --=_f2d1f231d3dc76b012706d82d007c772 Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 Content-Type: application/pdf; name=draft-vanderstok-roll-admin-local-policy-00.pdf Content-Disposition: attachment; filename=draft-vanderstok-roll-admin-local-policy-00.pdf; size=15808 JVBERi0xLjQNJeLjz9MNCjQzIDAgb2JqDTw8L0xpbmVhcml6ZWQgMS9MIDE1ODA4L08gNDUvRSAy MTMzL04gOC9UIDE1NDU4L0ggWyA0NTEgMTY5XT4+DWVuZG9iag0gICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAg DQo0OCAwIG9iag08PC9EZWNvZGVQYXJtczw8L0NvbHVtbnMgNC9QcmVkaWN0b3IgMTI+Pi9GaWx0 ZXIvRmxhdGVEZWNvZGUvSURbPDE0MzU0QjE0N0EwQjJBRkNBNzRENzMyMzIwNzE2QTM3Pjw3NzQx OTExMjVBQjgwRDRGQjc1RjkzRDE4RjRCNEM4RD5dL0luZGV4WzQzIDExXS9JbmZvIDQyIDAgUi9M ZW5ndGggNDgvUHJldiAxNTQ1OS9Sb290IDQ0IDAgUi9TaXplIDU0L1R5cGUvWFJlZi9XWzEgMiAx XT4+c3RyZWFtDQpo3mJiZBBgYGJgigESDPZAgnE9iDgGJP6EMDAxMuwCSTAwIhH/Gaf+BQgwAI70 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(ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 53D151A0164 for ; Fri, 7 Mar 2014 01:54:44 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.277 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.277 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, FM_FORGED_GMAIL=0.622, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id gx_zGvglfs10 for ; Fri, 7 Mar 2014 01:54:41 -0800 (PST) Received: from mail-ve0-x235.google.com (mail-ve0-x235.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:400c:c01::235]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id AF5C51A02E2 for ; Fri, 7 Mar 2014 01:54:41 -0800 (PST) Received: by mail-ve0-f181.google.com with SMTP id oy12so3917899veb.40 for ; Fri, 07 Mar 2014 01:54:37 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20120113; h=mime-version:sender:date:message-id:subject:from:to:content-type; bh=GKaA+PA2uPZwn42ISbHS55DhpPjwaU9j+S/bAicAAoI=; b=uPPwQ7SxRpRpK4egJtr6hyrKYaxjxpqoFf3PlEDxuxrzCfVozHR6XgXHI/yZa1HIy0 ZdQcRhZYB9kU07AeNYwe2s41YPjgALJRowx3LDti9E3HtCNQxJQw2RErppiFDUo8WBbc DrGckO2ny6Lh7jiFx6hrnsG6Le5oIHuRQFPkAoRf0dYNLmA3wKUr2UjcPDsaeTWXsz1y /kPKSo/5zKPQTrPTSs3yQ3fWim/uGlWVoNXtACFS//BUmE/ETi5q4qNTBupZ6vhDZMks UIoQfN7Bvwb3ON/BuwV/McJa6NB4oBn4IOuV4/1IL6a94tWICrPvs6Lpw09nWqp22Sl0 nCBg== MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Received: by 10.58.188.78 with SMTP id fy14mr9622731vec.23.1394186077230; Fri, 07 Mar 2014 01:54:37 -0800 (PST) Sender: simon.duquennoy@gmail.com Received: by 10.220.150.209 with HTTP; Fri, 7 Mar 2014 01:54:37 -0800 (PST) Date: Fri, 7 Mar 2014 10:54:37 +0100 X-Google-Sender-Auth: IUFy0aWvTvdWEfrtIvsS-L62iSM Message-ID: From: Simon Duquennoy To: roll@ietf.org Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=089e013a12f0e25d4a04f4013dc6 Archived-At: http://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/roll/MHp7RmHU6UWzwHszR32T_GkTEEg Subject: [Roll] Interest in opportunistic routing? X-BeenThere: roll@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list Reply-To: Routing Over Low power and Lossy networks List-Id: Routing Over Low power and Lossy networks List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 07 Mar 2014 09:56:20 -0000 --089e013a12f0e25d4a04f4013dc6 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Dear all, We have designed an opportunistic extension of RPL, where the basic idea is to exploit all links of the DODAG rather than the tree defined by links to preferred parents. We do this using anycast: transmissions are intended either (upwards) to any parent or (downwards) to any child having the destination below in the DODAG. The intuition why this is a good idea is that you don't even need to find out which link is best for you, but rather use available links whenever they are usable (increases robustness). Furthermore, in radio duty cycled environment, anycast is also notoriously more energy-efficient and low-latency than unicast. We have a working prototype [1] in Contiki that we evaluated thoroughly in a 135-node testbed [2]. In a 4-min packet interval data collection, we increase the reliability of RPL from 97.4 to 99.5%, while halving the latency (below 0.5s) and radio duty cycle (below 0.5%). If there is interest, we can come up with a simplified version of the design presented in the paper, and propose a way to integrate it in RPL through only a few minor additions. To be more specific, the simplified version would use the existing RPL routing tables rather than Bloom filters, and would be MAC-layer agnostic (the only assumption being that the MAC layer supports anycast). Best regards, Simon Duquennoy [1] https://github.com/simonduq/orpl [2] www.simonduquennoy.net/papers/duquennoy13orpl.pdf --089e013a12f0e25d4a04f4013dc6 Content-Type: text/html; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Dear all,

We have designed an opportunistic extension of RPL= , where the basic idea is to exploit all links of the DODAG rather than the= tree defined by links to preferred parents. We do this using anycast: tran= smissions are intended either (upwards) to any parent or (downwards) to any= child having the destination below in the DODAG.

The intuition why this is a good idea is that you don'= ;t even need to find out which link is best for you, but rather use availab= le links whenever they are usable (increases robustness). Furthermore, in r= adio duty cycled environment, anycast is also notoriously more energy-effic= ient and low-latency than unicast.

We have a working prototype [1] in Contiki that we evalua= ted thoroughly in a 135-node testbed [2]. In a 4-min packet interval data c= ollection, we increase the reliability of RPL from 97.4 to 99.5%, while hal= ving the latency (below 0.5s) and radio duty cycle (below 0.5%).

If there is interest, we can come up with a simplified ve= rsion of the design presented in the paper, and propose a way to integrate = it in RPL through only a few minor additions. To be more specific, the simp= lified version would use the existing RPL routing tables rather than Bloom = filters, and would be MAC-layer agnostic (the only assumption being that th= e MAC layer supports anycast).

Best regards,
Simon Duquennoy

--089e013a12f0e25d4a04f4013dc6-- From nobody Fri Mar 7 04:37:24 2014 Return-Path: X-Original-To: roll@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: roll@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1BE591A0262 for ; Fri, 7 Mar 2014 04:37:22 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: 1.019 X-Spam-Level: * X-Spam-Status: No, score=1.019 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, FH_RELAY_NODNS=1.451, RDNS_NONE=0.793, SPF_SOFTFAIL=0.665, T_TVD_MIME_NO_HEADERS=0.01] autolearn=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id B7lZhwJ7u-C3 for ; Fri, 7 Mar 2014 04:37:20 -0800 (PST) Received: from tuna.sandelman.ca (unknown [IPv6:2607:f0b0:f:3:216:3eff:fe7c:d1f3]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 27E601A01C9 for ; Fri, 7 Mar 2014 04:37:20 -0800 (PST) Received: from sandelman.ca (obiwan.sandelman.ca [IPv6:2607:f0b0:f:2::247]) by tuna.sandelman.ca (Postfix) with ESMTP id 78D4D2002B for ; Fri, 7 Mar 2014 08:55:55 -0500 (EST) Received: by sandelman.ca (Postfix, from userid 179) id 563A3647C9; Fri, 7 Mar 2014 07:37:14 -0500 (EST) Received: from sandelman.ca (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by sandelman.ca (Postfix) with ESMTP id 43C7463B88 for ; Fri, 7 Mar 2014 07:37:14 -0500 (EST) From: Michael Richardson To: Routing Over Low power and Lossy networks In-Reply-To: References: X-Mailer: MH-E 8.2; nmh 1.3-dev; GNU Emacs 23.4.1 X-Face: $\n1pF)h^`}$H>Hk{L"x@)JS7<%Az}5RyS@k9X%29-lHB$Ti.V>2bi.~ehC0; <'$9xN5Ub# z!G,p`nR&p7Fz@^UXIn156S8.~^@MJ*mMsD7=QFeq%AL4m Sender: mcr@sandelman.ca Archived-At: http://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/roll/yOOC3V39tOOZaSQMuFdr8UFD3K8 Subject: Re: [Roll] Interest in opportunistic routing? X-BeenThere: roll@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list Reply-To: Routing Over Low power and Lossy networks List-Id: Routing Over Low power and Lossy networks List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 07 Mar 2014 12:37:22 -0000 --=-=-= Simon Duquennoy wrote: > We have designed an opportunistic extension of RPL, where the basic idea is to > exploit all links of the DODAG rather than the tree defined by links to > preferred parents. We do this using anycast: transmissions are intended either > (upwards) to any parent or (downwards) to any child having the destination > below in the DODAG. This is very interesting. > We have a working prototype [1] in Contiki that we evaluated thoroughly in a > 135-node testbed [2]. In a 4-min packet interval data collection, we increase > the reliability of RPL from 97.4 to 99.5%, while halving the latency (below > 0.5s) and radio duty cycle (below 0.5%). > If there is interest, we can come up with a simplified version of the design > presented in the paper, and propose a way to integrate it in RPL through only a > few minor additions. To be more specific, the simplified version would use the > existing RPL routing tables rather than Bloom filters, and would be MAC-layer > agnostic (the only assumption being that the MAC layer supports > anycast). I'm not familliar with the concept of anycast at layer-2. I think that ethernet supports this, but that actually one would have the multicast bit set. I think that you'd have to do the same thing on 802.11. I guess that 15.4 has a specific support for this, or is just a choice of a particular unicast mac? -- Michael Richardson , Sandelman Software Works IETF ROLL WG co-chair. http://datatracker.ietf.org/wg/roll/charter/ --=-=-= Content-Type: application/pgp-signature -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.4.12 (GNU/Linux) iQCVAwUBUxm9eoqHRg3pndX9AQLDoQP+NqYD+EtgRoMPd+PmEvEy/7R4tJ+du1Q7 smMRwUp1DDT6IqPe6okOYEkcATI4qpsy2opv+2x089CA3Kj4Nj66bMIcRll8S4H+ uu4DicgJYuQT6zzFEpyrPGCJ9gAOeesx8HSXP9lbKb1n4kINh5//ZjX2Le4VQXnG 3AFtICdkF8E= =KWWn -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --=-=-=-- From nobody Fri Mar 7 05:47:03 2014 Return-Path: X-Original-To: roll@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: roll@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 956D01A0118 for ; Fri, 7 Mar 2014 05:47:01 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.277 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.277 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, FM_FORGED_GMAIL=0.622, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id wBzXr_0eVIvr for ; Fri, 7 Mar 2014 05:46:58 -0800 (PST) Received: from mail-ve0-x22c.google.com (mail-ve0-x22c.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:400c:c01::22c]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 76E941A0269 for ; Fri, 7 Mar 2014 05:46:58 -0800 (PST) Received: by mail-ve0-f172.google.com with SMTP id jx11so4234478veb.31 for ; Fri, 07 Mar 2014 05:46:54 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20120113; h=mime-version:sender:in-reply-to:references:date:message-id:subject :from:to:content-type; bh=3ulOZvqQU3dFK9hrcTOmANx4xfYUNCwhX8Gx9eKK9XA=; b=WrnF7LHshOP1E1BKjXnExBJyvIr+TvsDdKskx6n6Fm6qCw23pleQ1v8SSYxAJhotkH D+F1QQ7eyvmUJkv7GC+wE4SK9+DxpK/hh7rI5GCGGd1Q7+hKoidtDSzBdADxBugoseXH e7GZAL6uwhuGhjC1rlQhPbxpF9pf7g3teTAQnlMiwxYGeufKp8jYBeSx0DG60Yotiuwy jWiovGpcRuer3WuVbfyFHCL79ex5zonYMFvbjGkO6ORTgyug7ewkpBx7AxgNi5oZGx46 CMDScyMP3Wag60pObyHTcxD1pdKr4OaWj2kdQ364yicZJZZ8RvyVyqXw9a0HzXLVwCBe Le7Q== MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Received: by 10.59.7.170 with SMTP id dd10mr10396375ved.12.1394200013678; Fri, 07 Mar 2014 05:46:53 -0800 (PST) Sender: simon.duquennoy@gmail.com Received: by 10.220.150.209 with HTTP; Fri, 7 Mar 2014 05:46:53 -0800 (PST) In-Reply-To: <19299.1394195834@sandelman.ca> References: <19299.1394195834@sandelman.ca> Date: Fri, 7 Mar 2014 14:46:53 +0100 X-Google-Sender-Auth: autEFeoKcmBAYhLiss72YG5jCeQ Message-ID: From: Simon Duquennoy To: Routing Over Low power and Lossy networks Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=047d7bdc98828fe2cf04f4047ca0 Archived-At: http://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/roll/JSmvBSUWYLjXxCve52VOcDvFT3M Subject: Re: [Roll] Interest in opportunistic routing? X-BeenThere: roll@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list Reply-To: Routing Over Low power and Lossy networks List-Id: Routing Over Low power and Lossy networks List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 07 Mar 2014 13:47:01 -0000 --047d7bdc98828fe2cf04f4047ca0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 On Fri, Mar 7, 2014 at 1:37 PM, Michael Richardson wrote: > > Simon Duquennoy wrote: > > We have designed an opportunistic extension of RPL, where the basic > idea is to > > exploit all links of the DODAG rather than the tree defined by links > to > > preferred parents. We do this using anycast: transmissions are > intended either > > (upwards) to any parent or (downwards) to any child having the > destination > > below in the DODAG. > > This is very interesting. > > > We have a working prototype [1] in Contiki that we evaluated > thoroughly in a > > 135-node testbed [2]. In a 4-min packet interval data collection, we > increase > > the reliability of RPL from 97.4 to 99.5%, while halving the latency > (below > > 0.5s) and radio duty cycle (below 0.5%). > > > If there is interest, we can come up with a simplified version of > the design > > presented in the paper, and propose a way to integrate it in RPL > through only a > > few minor additions. To be more specific, the simplified version > would use the > > existing RPL routing tables rather than Bloom filters, and would be > MAC-layer > > agnostic (the only assumption being that the MAC layer supports > > anycast). > > I'm not familliar with the concept of anycast at layer-2. > I think that ethernet supports this, but that actually one would have the > multicast bit set. I think that you'd have to do the same thing on 802.11. > I guess that 15.4 has a specific support for this, or is just a choice of a > particular unicast mac? > Dear Michael, all, There is no specific support for anycast in 802.15.4, but the standard MAC layers can easily be used for anycast (often by setting multicast/broadcast + ACK bits). I've see prototypes for 802.15.4 beacon-enabled [1], for a 15.4e RIT-like MAC [2], and for a CSL-like MAC (our own implementation uses ContikiMAC, which is similar CSL). Should also be possible with 15.4 TSCH or even 802.11 PSM. Doing this on an always-on link like ethernet or traditional 802.11 is more tricky because you need an agreement procedure so that only one neighbor that received the packet forwards it. There exist solutions for WiFi, such as ExOR [3], which introduced opportunistic for 802.11 back in 2005. I don't think we want to go into this though; I'd rather simply stipulate that anycast is required at the MAC layer and possibly give some hints on how to support it on the most common MAC protocols. Best, Simon [1] http://clarinet.u-strasbg.fr/~theoleyre/uploads/Publis/pavkovic11rpl.pdf [2] http://www.ti5.tuhh.de/publications/2012/EWSN12_Orinoco.pdf [3] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ExOR_(wireless_network_protocol) > -- > Michael Richardson , Sandelman Software Works > IETF ROLL WG co-chair. http://datatracker.ietf.org/wg/roll/charter/ > > > _______________________________________________ > Roll mailing list > Roll@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/roll > > --047d7bdc98828fe2cf04f4047ca0 Content-Type: text/html; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
On F= ri, Mar 7, 2014 at 1:37 PM, Michael Richardson <mcr+ietf@sandelman.ca<= /a>> wrote:

Simon Duquennoy <simonduq@sics.se> wrote:
=A0 =A0 > We have designed an opportunistic extension of RPL, where the = basic idea is to
=A0 =A0 > exploit all links of the DODAG rather than the tree defined by= links to
=A0 =A0 > preferred parents. We do this using anycast: transmissions are= intended either
=A0 =A0 > (upwards) to any parent or (downwards) to any child having the= destination
=A0 =A0 > below in the DODAG.

This is very interesting.

=A0 =A0 > We have a working prototype [1] in Contiki that we evaluated t= horoughly in a
=A0 =A0 > 135-node testbed [2]. In a 4-min packet interval data collecti= on, we increase
=A0 =A0 > the reliability of RPL from 97.4 to 99.5%, while halving the l= atency (below
=A0 =A0 > 0.5s) and radio duty cycle (below 0.5%).

=A0 =A0 > If there is interest, we can come up with a simplified version= of the design
=A0 =A0 > presented in the paper, and propose a way to integrate it in R= PL through only a
=A0 =A0 > few minor additions. To be more specific, the simplified versi= on would use the
=A0 =A0 > existing RPL routing tables rather than Bloom filters, and wou= ld be MAC-layer
=A0 =A0 > agnostic (the only assumption being that the MAC layer support= s
=A0 =A0 > anycast).

I'm not familliar with the concept of anycast at layer-2.
I think that ethernet supports this, but that actually one would have the multicast bit set. =A0I think that you'd have to do the same thing on 8= 02.11.
I guess that 15.4 has a specific support for this, or is just a choice of a=
particular unicast mac?


I've see prototypes for 802.15.4 beacon-enabled [1], for a 15.4e R= IT-like MAC [2], and for a CSL-like MAC (our own implementation uses Contik= iMAC, which is similar CSL).
Should also be possible with 15.4 TS= CH or even 802.11 PSM.
Doing this on an always-on link like ethernet or traditional 802.11 is= more tricky because you need an agreement procedure so that only one neigh= bor that received the packet forwards it. There exist solutions for WiFi, s= uch as ExOR [3], which introduced opportunistic for 802.11 back in 2005. I = don't think we want to go into this though; I'd rather simply stipu= late that anycast is required at the MAC layer and possibly give some hints= on how to support it on the most common MAC protocols.

Best,
Simon


--
Michael Richardson <mcr+IETF@= sandelman.ca>, Sandelman Software Works
IETF ROLL WG co-chair. =A0 =A0http://datatracker.ietf.org/wg/roll/charter/<= /a>


_______________________________________________
Roll mailing list
Roll@ietf.org
ht= tps://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/roll


--047d7bdc98828fe2cf04f4047ca0-- From nobody Fri Mar 7 07:27:04 2014 Return-Path: X-Original-To: roll@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: roll@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id E47FC1A028C for ; Fri, 7 Mar 2014 07:27:02 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -10.047 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-10.047 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RP_MATCHES_RCVD=-0.547, SPF_PASS=-0.001, USER_IN_DEF_DKIM_WL=-7.5] autolearn=ham Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id rNHEMk-UHqxD for ; Fri, 7 Mar 2014 07:26:59 -0800 (PST) Received: from alln-iport-5.cisco.com (alln-iport-5.cisco.com [173.37.142.92]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4D5DA1A0273 for ; Fri, 7 Mar 2014 07:26:59 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/simple; d=cisco.com; i=@cisco.com; l=9402; q=dns/txt; s=iport; t=1394206015; x=1395415615; h=from:to:cc:subject:date:message-id:references: in-reply-to:mime-version; bh=FEFBEM7ie4uTpKgD5GA9bfcOKZmErcy3rBj7rGaCGU0=; b=P0nOhb/o5m6K2jzL+sDL9+4OEFgZvxMUEH+uz5IPw+2lTEphFZYQDd0U UFqW5GJ6oPoirblCQf3kPiPfXvPWmIxhCW5vILygn8dYwk9eDVWNS8eTi UuJDwnMWfoTlUzOioEzNKsLxkc1ARJ93GO+fsGsjI1BK52rS02f3Y71tb o=; X-IronPort-Anti-Spam-Filtered: true X-IronPort-Anti-Spam-Result: AtQFAOnjGVOtJXG9/2dsb2JhbABaFoJwO6tmjTqEaYMkT4ESFnSCJQEBAQIBAQEBAWsLBQsCAQgYJwcnCxQRAgQOBRuHVggN0AgXjlcEB4MkgRQEiRiPK4EykHmDLQ X-IronPort-AV: E=Sophos; i="4.97,608,1389744000"; d="scan'208,217"; a="25720716" Received: from rcdn-core2-2.cisco.com ([173.37.113.189]) by alln-iport-5.cisco.com with ESMTP; 07 Mar 2014 15:26:53 +0000 Received: from xhc-rcd-x11.cisco.com (xhc-rcd-x11.cisco.com [173.37.183.85]) by rcdn-core2-2.cisco.com (8.14.5/8.14.5) with ESMTP id s27FQrPC021499 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=AES128-SHA bits=128 verify=FAIL) for ; Fri, 7 Mar 2014 15:26:53 GMT Received: from xmb-rcd-x01.cisco.com ([169.254.1.35]) by xhc-rcd-x11.cisco.com ([173.37.183.85]) with mapi id 14.03.0123.003; Fri, 7 Mar 2014 09:26:53 -0600 From: "Pascal Thubert (pthubert)" To: Routing Over Low power and Lossy networks CC: Routing Over Low power and Lossy networks Thread-Topic: [Roll] Interest in opportunistic routing? Thread-Index: AQHPOeuHIENuIpoZ/UCxuWeTpIXYE5rV9K0AgAATdoD//7dbXw== Date: Fri, 7 Mar 2014 15:26:52 +0000 Message-ID: <9B212B1D-28E7-4637-8ADF-C056183A5E2F@cisco.com> References: <19299.1394195834@sandelman.ca>, In-Reply-To: Accept-Language: fr-FR, en-US Content-Language: fr-FR X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="_000_9B212B1D28E746378ADFC056183A5E2Fciscocom_" MIME-Version: 1.0 Archived-At: http://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/roll/cUtZ0gA2svsc90aLAqtfJgJM8Os Subject: Re: [Roll] Interest in opportunistic routing? X-BeenThere: roll@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list Reply-To: Routing Over Low power and Lossy networks List-Id: Routing Over Low power and Lossy networks List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 07 Mar 2014 15:27:03 -0000 --_000_9B212B1D28E746378ADFC056183A5E2Fciscocom_ Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable I'd love to hear Pascal Le 7 mars 2014 =E0 14:47, "Simon Duquennoy" > a =E9crit : On Fri, Mar 7, 2014 at 1:37 PM, Michael Richardson > wrote: Simon Duquennoy > wrote: > We have designed an opportunistic extension of RPL, where the basic i= dea is to > exploit all links of the DODAG rather than the tree defined by links = to > preferred parents. We do this using anycast: transmissions are intend= ed either > (upwards) to any parent or (downwards) to any child having the destin= ation > below in the DODAG. This is very interesting. > We have a working prototype [1] in Contiki that we evaluated thorough= ly in a > 135-node testbed [2]. In a 4-min packet interval data collection, we = increase > the reliability of RPL from 97.4 to 99.5%, while halving the latency = (below > 0.5s) and radio duty cycle (below 0.5%). > If there is interest, we can come up with a simplified version of the= design > presented in the paper, and propose a way to integrate it in RPL thro= ugh only a > few minor additions. To be more specific, the simplified version woul= d use the > existing RPL routing tables rather than Bloom filters, and would be M= AC-layer > agnostic (the only assumption being that the MAC layer supports > anycast). I'm not familliar with the concept of anycast at layer-2. I think that ethernet supports this, but that actually one would have the multicast bit set. I think that you'd have to do the same thing on 802.11. I guess that 15.4 has a specific support for this, or is just a choice of a particular unicast mac? Dear Michael, all, There is no specific support for anycast in 802.15.4, but the standard MAC = layers can easily be used for anycast (often by setting multicast/broadcast= + ACK bits). I've see prototypes for 802.15.4 beacon-enabled [1], for a 15.4e RIT-like M= AC [2], and for a CSL-like MAC (our own implementation uses ContikiMAC, whi= ch is similar CSL). Should also be possible with 15.4 TSCH or even 802.11 PSM. Doing this on an always-on link like ethernet or traditional 802.11 is more= tricky because you need an agreement procedure so that only one neighbor t= hat received the packet forwards it. There exist solutions for WiFi, such a= s ExOR [3], which introduced opportunistic for 802.11 back in 2005. I don't= think we want to go into this though; I'd rather simply stipulate that any= cast is required at the MAC layer and possibly give some hints on how to su= pport it on the most common MAC protocols. Best, Simon [1] http://clarinet.u-strasbg.fr/~theoleyre/uploads/Publis/pavkovic11rpl.pd= f [2] http://www.ti5.tuhh.de/publications/2012/EWSN12_Orinoco.pdf [3] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ExOR_(wireless_network_protocol) -- Michael Richardson >,= Sandelman Software Works IETF ROLL WG co-chair. http://datatracker.ietf.org/wg/roll/charter/ _______________________________________________ Roll mailing list Roll@ietf.org https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/roll _______________________________________________ Roll mailing list Roll@ietf.org https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/roll --_000_9B212B1D28E746378ADFC056183A5E2Fciscocom_ Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
I'd love to hear 

Pascal

Le 7 mars 2014 =E0 14:47, "Simon Duquennoy" <simonduq@sics.se> a =E9crit :

On Fri, Mar 7, 2014 at 1:37 PM, Michael Richards= on <mcr+= ietf@sandelman.ca> wrote:

Simon Duquennoy <simonduq@sics.se> wrote:
    > We have designed an opportunistic extension of RPL, wher= e the basic idea is to
    > exploit all links of the DODAG rather than the tree defi= ned by links to
    > preferred parents. We do this using anycast: transmissio= ns are intended either
    > (upwards) to any parent or (downwards) to any child havi= ng the destination
    > below in the DODAG.

This is very interesting.

    > We have a working prototype [1] in Contiki that we evalu= ated thoroughly in a
    > 135-node testbed [2]. In a 4-min packet interval data co= llection, we increase
    > the reliability of RPL from 97.4 to 99.5%, while halving= the latency (below
    > 0.5s) and radio duty cycle (below 0.5%).

    > If there is interest, we can come up with a simplified v= ersion of the design
    > presented in the paper, and propose a way to integrate i= t in RPL through only a
    > few minor additions. To be more specific, the simplified= version would use the
    > existing RPL routing tables rather than Bloom filters, a= nd would be MAC-layer
    > agnostic (the only assumption being that the MAC layer s= upports
    > anycast).

I'm not familliar with the concept of anycast at layer-2.
I think that ethernet supports this, but that actually one would have the multicast bit set.  I think that you'd have to do the same thing on 80= 2.11.
I guess that 15.4 has a specific support for this, or is just a choice of a=
particular unicast mac?

Dear Michael, all,

There is no specific support for anycast in 802.15.4, but the standard= MAC layers can easily be used for anycast (often by setting multicast/broa= dcast + ACK bits).
I've see prototypes for 802.15.4 beacon-enabled [1], for a 15.4e RIT-l= ike MAC [2], and for a CSL-like MAC (our own implementation uses ContikiMAC= , which is similar CSL).
Should also be possible with 15.4 TSCH or even 802.11 PSM.
Doing this on an always-on link like ethernet or traditional 802.11 is= more tricky because you need an agreement procedure so that only one neigh= bor that received the packet forwards it. There exist solutions for WiFi, s= uch as ExOR [3], which introduced opportunistic for 802.11 back in 2005. I don't think we want to go into th= is though; I'd rather simply stipulate that anycast is required at the MAC = layer and possibly give some hints on how to support it on the most common = MAC protocols.

Best,
Simon
_______________________________________________
Roll mailing list
Roll@ietf.org
https://www.ie= tf.org/mailman/listinfo/roll
--_000_9B212B1D28E746378ADFC056183A5E2Fciscocom_-- From nobody Fri Mar 7 07:28:57 2014 Return-Path: X-Original-To: roll@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: roll@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id DDB501A0298 for ; Fri, 7 Mar 2014 07:28:55 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -10.047 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-10.047 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RP_MATCHES_RCVD=-0.547, SPF_PASS=-0.001, USER_IN_DEF_DKIM_WL=-7.5] autolearn=ham Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id KfHrtsWXHkni for ; Fri, 7 Mar 2014 07:28:53 -0800 (PST) Received: from alln-iport-4.cisco.com (alln-iport-4.cisco.com [173.37.142.91]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 05D991A027E for ; Fri, 7 Mar 2014 07:28:52 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/simple; d=cisco.com; i=@cisco.com; l=9573; q=dns/txt; s=iport; t=1394206129; x=1395415729; h=from:to:cc:subject:date:message-id:references: in-reply-to:mime-version; bh=fNH4zRAI6/gSSxh2UCkuFHdyGa8jPuHSZqdtrscAugA=; b=SNkt+5Rw69AUAbcqh+acVTCuJ1PccIYoMiJk3Z+5l8JYA+BPSWyQ5G6i JJO9gBpDYo/Ohxy/peedw1kRL/YDZqQBdHl1wDy6kN9JeIttkz/7Gknnv sxihuF39dFPoe8/RD+1GdcPb1EpWH1Kg8dycmbwbKo+AzSL+FrFKq+xmb 4=; X-IronPort-Anti-Spam-Filtered: true X-IronPort-Anti-Spam-Result: AtQFADnlGVOtJV2Y/2dsb2JhbABaFoJwO6tmjTqEaYMkT4ESFnSCJQEBAQIBAQEBAWsLBQsCAQgYJwcnCxQRAgQOBRuHVggNz3wXjlcEB4MkgRQEiRiPK4EykHmDLQ X-IronPort-AV: E=Sophos; i="4.97,608,1389744000"; d="scan'208,217"; a="25722088" Received: from rcdn-core-1.cisco.com ([173.37.93.152]) by alln-iport-4.cisco.com with ESMTP; 07 Mar 2014 15:28:48 +0000 Received: from xhc-rcd-x05.cisco.com (xhc-rcd-x05.cisco.com [173.37.183.79]) by rcdn-core-1.cisco.com (8.14.5/8.14.5) with ESMTP id s27FSm26025825 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=AES128-SHA bits=128 verify=FAIL); Fri, 7 Mar 2014 15:28:48 GMT Received: from xmb-rcd-x01.cisco.com ([169.254.1.35]) by xhc-rcd-x05.cisco.com ([173.37.183.79]) with mapi id 14.03.0123.003; Fri, 7 Mar 2014 09:28:48 -0600 From: "Pascal Thubert (pthubert)" To: Routing Over Low power and Lossy networks Thread-Topic: [Roll] Interest in opportunistic routing? Thread-Index: AQHPOeuHIENuIpoZ/UCxuWeTpIXYE5rV9K0AgAATdoD//7fkNw== Date: Fri, 7 Mar 2014 15:28:47 +0000 Message-ID: <8B665F7F-8EA1-4150-924D-46F722BC5FC8@cisco.com> References: <19299.1394195834@sandelman.ca>, In-Reply-To: Accept-Language: fr-FR, en-US Content-Language: fr-FR X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="_000_8B665F7F8EA14150924D46F722BC5FC8ciscocom_" MIME-Version: 1.0 Archived-At: http://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/roll/1wSemeKTYvi6ALhQ6OCDhu2UAtM Cc: Quentin Lampin Subject: Re: [Roll] Interest in opportunistic routing? X-BeenThere: roll@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list Reply-To: Routing Over Low power and Lossy networks List-Id: Routing Over Low power and Lossy networks List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 07 Mar 2014 15:28:56 -0000 --_000_8B665F7F8EA14150924D46F722BC5FC8ciscocom_ Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable I'd love to hear more. This work reminds me of interesting Results Quentin = showed at his PhD... Pascal Le 7 mars 2014 =E0 14:47, "Simon Duquennoy" > a =E9crit : On Fri, Mar 7, 2014 at 1:37 PM, Michael Richardson > wrote: Simon Duquennoy > wrote: > We have designed an opportunistic extension of RPL, where the basic i= dea is to > exploit all links of the DODAG rather than the tree defined by links = to > preferred parents. We do this using anycast: transmissions are intend= ed either > (upwards) to any parent or (downwards) to any child having the destin= ation > below in the DODAG. This is very interesting. > We have a working prototype [1] in Contiki that we evaluated thorough= ly in a > 135-node testbed [2]. In a 4-min packet interval data collection, we = increase > the reliability of RPL from 97.4 to 99.5%, while halving the latency = (below > 0.5s) and radio duty cycle (below 0.5%). > If there is interest, we can come up with a simplified version of the= design > presented in the paper, and propose a way to integrate it in RPL thro= ugh only a > few minor additions. To be more specific, the simplified version woul= d use the > existing RPL routing tables rather than Bloom filters, and would be M= AC-layer > agnostic (the only assumption being that the MAC layer supports > anycast). I'm not familliar with the concept of anycast at layer-2. I think that ethernet supports this, but that actually one would have the multicast bit set. I think that you'd have to do the same thing on 802.11. I guess that 15.4 has a specific support for this, or is just a choice of a particular unicast mac? Dear Michael, all, There is no specific support for anycast in 802.15.4, but the standard MAC = layers can easily be used for anycast (often by setting multicast/broadcast= + ACK bits). I've see prototypes for 802.15.4 beacon-enabled [1], for a 15.4e RIT-like M= AC [2], and for a CSL-like MAC (our own implementation uses ContikiMAC, whi= ch is similar CSL). Should also be possible with 15.4 TSCH or even 802.11 PSM. Doing this on an always-on link like ethernet or traditional 802.11 is more= tricky because you need an agreement procedure so that only one neighbor t= hat received the packet forwards it. There exist solutions for WiFi, such a= s ExOR [3], which introduced opportunistic for 802.11 back in 2005. I don't= think we want to go into this though; I'd rather simply stipulate that any= cast is required at the MAC layer and possibly give some hints on how to su= pport it on the most common MAC protocols. Best, Simon [1] http://clarinet.u-strasbg.fr/~theoleyre/uploads/Publis/pavkovic11rpl.pd= f [2] http://www.ti5.tuhh.de/publications/2012/EWSN12_Orinoco.pdf [3] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ExOR_(wireless_network_protocol) -- Michael Richardson >,= Sandelman Software Works IETF ROLL WG co-chair. http://datatracker.ietf.org/wg/roll/charter/ _______________________________________________ Roll mailing list Roll@ietf.org https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/roll _______________________________________________ Roll mailing list Roll@ietf.org https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/roll --_000_8B665F7F8EA14150924D46F722BC5FC8ciscocom_ Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
I'd love to hear more. This work reminds me of interesting Results Que= ntin showed at his PhD... 

Pascal

Le 7 mars 2014 =E0 14:47, "Simon Duquennoy" <simonduq@sics.se> a =E9crit :

On Fri, Mar 7, 2014 at 1:37 PM, Michael Richards= on <mcr+= ietf@sandelman.ca> wrote:

Simon Duquennoy <simonduq@sics.se> wrote:
    > We have designed an opportunistic extension of RPL, wher= e the basic idea is to
    > exploit all links of the DODAG rather than the tree defi= ned by links to
    > preferred parents. We do this using anycast: transmissio= ns are intended either
    > (upwards) to any parent or (downwards) to any child havi= ng the destination
    > below in the DODAG.

This is very interesting.

    > We have a working prototype [1] in Contiki that we evalu= ated thoroughly in a
    > 135-node testbed [2]. In a 4-min packet interval data co= llection, we increase
    > the reliability of RPL from 97.4 to 99.5%, while halving= the latency (below
    > 0.5s) and radio duty cycle (below 0.5%).

    > If there is interest, we can come up with a simplified v= ersion of the design
    > presented in the paper, and propose a way to integrate i= t in RPL through only a
    > few minor additions. To be more specific, the simplified= version would use the
    > existing RPL routing tables rather than Bloom filters, a= nd would be MAC-layer
    > agnostic (the only assumption being that the MAC layer s= upports
    > anycast).

I'm not familliar with the concept of anycast at layer-2.
I think that ethernet supports this, but that actually one would have the multicast bit set.  I think that you'd have to do the same thing on 80= 2.11.
I guess that 15.4 has a specific support for this, or is just a choice of a=
particular unicast mac?

Dear Michael, all,

There is no specific support for anycast in 802.15.4, but the standard= MAC layers can easily be used for anycast (often by setting multicast/broa= dcast + ACK bits).
I've see prototypes for 802.15.4 beacon-enabled [1], for a 15.4e RIT-l= ike MAC [2], and for a CSL-like MAC (our own implementation uses ContikiMAC= , which is similar CSL).
Should also be possible with 15.4 TSCH or even 802.11 PSM.
Doing this on an always-on link like ethernet or traditional 802.11 is= more tricky because you need an agreement procedure so that only one neigh= bor that received the packet forwards it. There exist solutions for WiFi, s= uch as ExOR [3], which introduced opportunistic for 802.11 back in 2005. I don't think we want to go into th= is though; I'd rather simply stipulate that anycast is required at the MAC = layer and possibly give some hints on how to support it on the most common = MAC protocols.

Best,
Simon
_______________________________________________
Roll mailing list
Roll@ietf.org
https://www.ie= tf.org/mailman/listinfo/roll
--_000_8B665F7F8EA14150924D46F722BC5FC8ciscocom_-- From nobody Fri Mar 7 09:42:48 2014 Return-Path: X-Original-To: roll@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: roll@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8CCC81A01E8 for ; Fri, 7 Mar 2014 09:42:47 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.277 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.277 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, FM_FORGED_GMAIL=0.622, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id C-qFsJ5P-xHI for ; Fri, 7 Mar 2014 09:42:43 -0800 (PST) Received: from mail-vc0-x22d.google.com (mail-vc0-x22d.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:400c:c03::22d]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id C813F1A0083 for ; Fri, 7 Mar 2014 09:42:41 -0800 (PST) Received: by mail-vc0-f173.google.com with SMTP id ld13so4531424vcb.32 for ; Fri, 07 Mar 2014 09:42:37 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20120113; h=mime-version:sender:in-reply-to:references:date:message-id:subject :from:to:cc:content-type; bh=VrKLyINjqfDQRV/RO3bQfYm/14jVVNfuwsi4fAlOesc=; b=cl1NWoJgmoRePjWhfU2P4XVI9j8GD3X7aKeGKZPvZK3EJTBSj5+7ST71VDXgs52eFx grSpBN4VQGUbEjHxiUAA4mv/pfvECm5HfVeGhKrf/1C8syZArnx56zJpU5fh/crUQUDT ysvEH/AA+WID491JLhgEvtWNPY+uTKnpurnma24V/L7yqPfQFx1GsODqqNQ1j8+CrLr2 H/DxveM4UtLJU17Ys/YFy2gBolciFNO7yrqiz5wWclpVWXdyoP8lGq4O6ca70EETudA8 QLWn/1GRGw88MtNKM0AzmtX+zfCcp/uFB1hSYwhOy4y/S5+p8TP6N2t2eIov9fxKH8Qv WA3g== MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Received: by 10.58.248.228 with SMTP id yp4mr1755004vec.35.1394214157024; Fri, 07 Mar 2014 09:42:37 -0800 (PST) Sender: simon.duquennoy@gmail.com Received: by 10.220.150.209 with HTTP; Fri, 7 Mar 2014 09:42:36 -0800 (PST) In-Reply-To: <8B665F7F-8EA1-4150-924D-46F722BC5FC8@cisco.com> References: <19299.1394195834@sandelman.ca> <8B665F7F-8EA1-4150-924D-46F722BC5FC8@cisco.com> Date: Fri, 7 Mar 2014 18:42:36 +0100 X-Google-Sender-Auth: AfwVTZOSFZbhAaEjjBFVbSebV0s Message-ID: From: Simon Duquennoy To: Routing Over Low power and Lossy networks Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=047d7bf0cd0292041504f407c79c Archived-At: http://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/roll/rB0Fx5GVaFcGczNhxv9Kf5qchds Cc: Quentin Lampin Subject: Re: [Roll] Interest in opportunistic routing? X-BeenThere: roll@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list Reply-To: Routing Over Low power and Lossy networks List-Id: Routing Over Low power and Lossy networks List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 07 Mar 2014 17:42:47 -0000 --047d7bf0cd0292041504f407c79c Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Dear Pascal, AFAICT it does go along the same lines as Quentin's work. The main difference is that we support addressable nodes, i.e. not only upwards but also downwards routing. As you're asking for more, let me elaborate a bit on how I see our protocol (ORPL) integrated in RPL :) * routing decision (assuming storing mode): the forwarding decision is made at the receiver, not at the sender. Upon receiving a packet, a node decides whether to forward it based on (1) its rank and (2) the inclusion of the destination IPv6 address into its routing table. - If the packet is going up and the node has a lower rank then it will forward with upwards anycast. - If the packet is going up or down and the node has a higher rank, and the destination IPv6 address is in the routing table (i.e. the destination is below in the DODAG) then it will forward with downwards anycast. One interesting thing is any-to-any routing is that ORPL has many more common ancestors to use than RPL. In our experiments, any-to-any routing is where the benefits of ORPL are most significant, with the latency between leaf nodes improved with a factor up to 15 (case where RPL has a common ancestor several hops away whereas ORPL exploits many ancestors closer to the source and destination). * routing tables: the standard RPL tables will do. It is however worth noting that because anycast transmission do not target a specific receiver, all we need at every node is not a full routing table ( pairs) but only a set of reachable destinations. This makes the table potentially more compact. In the paper we investigate fancy structures for this such as Bloom filter but I regard this as out of the scope for a potential integration in standard RPL. * routing metric: ORPL can work with any routing metric, the only requirement is to have a DODAG. In the SenSys'13 paper we use our own metric, which is opportunistic routing-oriented. It helps but isn't strictly required (could possibly be the object of a separate draft) Regarding performance: our testbed experiments are on duty-cycled 802.15.4 nodes. We get great reliability. In the current implementation of ORPL (posterior to the paper) we have most of the runs with 100% delivery ratio (about 1500 packets sent and received end-to-end during the course of an hour). The reason is that ORPL is not affected at all by isolated link losses. It doesn't even notice it. If the link a parent is dead for some time then another parent will forward the packet. The other side benefits are latency and energy: when having duty cycled nodes, anycast nicely uses the first that wakes up and gets the packet successfully, making the wakeup procedure cheaper. A final note: opportunistic routing is great especially in dense environments, as there are more links to exploit. In sparser environments, as far as we have observed, the benefits reduce but are still present. The SenSys'13 paper contains a detailed design and thorough experimental evaluation: http://www.simonduquennoy.net/papers/duquennoy13orpl.pdf If you want to know even more, I'm open to having a phone call. Best, Simon On Fri, Mar 7, 2014 at 4:28 PM, Pascal Thubert (pthubert) < pthubert@cisco.com> wrote: > I'd love to hear more. This work reminds me of interesting Results > Quentin showed at his PhD... > > Pascal > > Le 7 mars 2014 =E0 14:47, "Simon Duquennoy" a =E9crit = : > > On Fri, Mar 7, 2014 at 1:37 PM, Michael Richardson < > mcr+ietf@sandelman.ca> wrote: > >> >> Simon Duquennoy wrote: >> > We have designed an opportunistic extension of RPL, where the basi= c >> idea is to >> > exploit all links of the DODAG rather than the tree defined by >> links to >> > preferred parents. We do this using anycast: transmissions are >> intended either >> > (upwards) to any parent or (downwards) to any child having the >> destination >> > below in the DODAG. >> >> This is very interesting. >> >> > We have a working prototype [1] in Contiki that we evaluated >> thoroughly in a >> > 135-node testbed [2]. In a 4-min packet interval data collection, >> we increase >> > the reliability of RPL from 97.4 to 99.5%, while halving the >> latency (below >> > 0.5s) and radio duty cycle (below 0.5%). >> >> > If there is interest, we can come up with a simplified version of >> the design >> > presented in the paper, and propose a way to integrate it in RPL >> through only a >> > few minor additions. To be more specific, the simplified version >> would use the >> > existing RPL routing tables rather than Bloom filters, and would b= e >> MAC-layer >> > agnostic (the only assumption being that the MAC layer supports >> > anycast). >> >> I'm not familliar with the concept of anycast at layer-2. >> I think that ethernet supports this, but that actually one would have th= e >> multicast bit set. I think that you'd have to do the same thing on >> 802.11. >> I guess that 15.4 has a specific support for this, or is just a choice o= f >> a >> particular unicast mac? >> > > Dear Michael, all, > > There is no specific support for anycast in 802.15.4, but the standard > MAC layers can easily be used for anycast (often by setting > multicast/broadcast + ACK bits). > I've see prototypes for 802.15.4 beacon-enabled [1], for a 15.4e RIT-like > MAC [2], and for a CSL-like MAC (our own implementation uses ContikiMAC, > which is similar CSL). > Should also be possible with 15.4 TSCH or even 802.11 PSM. > Doing this on an always-on link like ethernet or traditional 802.11 is > more tricky because you need an agreement procedure so that only one > neighbor that received the packet forwards it. There exist solutions for > WiFi, such as ExOR [3], which introduced opportunistic for 802.11 back in > 2005. I don't think we want to go into this though; I'd rather simply > stipulate that anycast is required at the MAC layer and possibly give som= e > hints on how to support it on the most common MAC protocols. > > Best, > Simon > > [1] > http://clarinet.u-strasbg.fr/~theoleyre/uploads/Publis/pavkovic11rpl.pdf > [2] http://www.ti5.tuhh.de/publications/2012/EWSN12_Orinoco.pdf > [3] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ExOR_(wireless_network_protocol) > > >> -- >> Michael Richardson , Sandelman Software Works >> IETF ROLL WG co-chair. http://datatracker.ietf.org/wg/roll/charter/ >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Roll mailing list >> Roll@ietf.org >> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/roll >> >> > _______________________________________________ > Roll mailing list > Roll@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/roll > > > _______________________________________________ > Roll mailing list > Roll@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/roll > > --047d7bf0cd0292041504f407c79c Content-Type: text/html; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Dear Pascal,

AFAICT it does go along th= e same lines as Quentin's work. The main difference is that we support = addressable nodes, i.e. not only upwards but also downwards routing.

As you're asking for more, let me elaborate a bit o= n how I see our protocol (ORPL) integrated in RPL :)
* routing de= cision (assuming storing mode): the forwarding decision is made at the rece= iver, not at the sender. Upon receiving a packet, a node decides whether to= forward it based on (1) its rank and (2) the inclusion of the destination = IPv6 address into its routing table.
=A0 - If the packet is going up and the node has a lower rank then it = will forward with upwards anycast.
=A0 - If the packet is going u= p or down and the node has a higher rank, and the destination IPv6 address = is in the routing table (i.e. the destination is below in the DODAG) then i= t will forward with downwards anycast.
One interesting thing is any-to-any routing is that ORPL has many more= common ancestors to use than RPL. In our experiments, any-to-any routing i= s where the benefits of ORPL are most significant, with the latency between= leaf nodes improved with a factor up to 15 (case where RPL has a common an= cestor several hops away whereas ORPL exploits many ancestors closer to the= source and destination).
* routing tables: the standard RPL tables will do. It is however worth= noting that because anycast transmission do not target a specific receiver= , all we need at every node is not a full routing table (<destination,ne= xt hop> pairs) but only a set of reachable destinations. This makes the = table potentially more compact. In the paper we investigate fancy structure= s for this such as Bloom filter but I regard this as out of the scope for a= potential integration in standard RPL.
* routing metric: ORPL can work with any routing metric, the only requ= irement is to have a DODAG. In the SenSys'13 paper we use our own metri= c, which is opportunistic routing-oriented. It helps but isn't strictly= required (could possibly be the object of a separate draft)

Regarding performance: our testbed experiments ar= e on duty-cycled 802.15.4 nodes. We get great reliability. In the current i= mplementation of ORPL (posterior to the paper) we have most of the runs wit= h 100% delivery ratio (about 1500 packets sent and received end-to-end duri= ng the course of an hour). The reason is that ORPL is not affected at all b= y isolated link losses. It doesn't even notice it. If the link a parent= is dead for some time then another parent will forward the packet. The oth= er side benefits are latency and energy: when having duty cycled nodes, any= cast nicely uses the first that wakes up and gets the packet successfully, = making the wakeup procedure cheaper. A final note: opportunistic routing is= great especially in dense environments, as there are more links to exploit= . In sparser environments, as far as we have observed, the benefits reduce = but are still present.

The SenSys'13 paper contains a detailed design and = thorough experimental evaluation:

If you want to know even more, I'm open to ha= ving a phone call.

Best,
Simon
=



On Fri, Mar 7, 2014 at 4:28 PM, Pascal Thubert (pthubert) <pthubert@cisco= .com> wrote:
I'd love to hear more. This work reminds me of interesting Results= Quentin showed at his PhD...=A0

Pascal

Le 7 mars 2014 =E0 14:47, "Simon Duquennoy" <simonduq@sics.se> a =E9crit=A0:=

On Fri, Mar 7, 2014 at 1:37 PM, Michael Richards= on <mcr+ietf@san= delman.ca> wrote:

Simon Duquennoy <s= imonduq@sics.se> wrote:
=A0 =A0 > We have designed an opportunistic extension of RPL, where the = basic idea is to
=A0 =A0 > exploit all links of the DODAG rather than the tree defined by= links to
=A0 =A0 > preferred parents. We do this using anycast: transmissions are= intended either
=A0 =A0 > (upwards) to any parent or (downwards) to any child having the= destination
=A0 =A0 > below in the DODAG.

This is very interesting.

=A0 =A0 > We have a working prototype [1] in Contiki that we evaluated t= horoughly in a
=A0 =A0 > 135-node testbed [2]. In a 4-min packet interval data collecti= on, we increase
=A0 =A0 > the reliability of RPL from 97.4 to 99.5%, while halving the l= atency (below
=A0 =A0 > 0.5s) and radio duty cycle (below 0.5%).

=A0 =A0 > If there is interest, we can come up with a simplified version= of the design
=A0 =A0 > presented in the paper, and propose a way to integrate it in R= PL through only a
=A0 =A0 > few minor additions. To be more specific, the simplified versi= on would use the
=A0 =A0 > existing RPL routing tables rather than Bloom filters, and wou= ld be MAC-layer
=A0 =A0 > agnostic (the only assumption being that the MAC layer support= s
=A0 =A0 > anycast).

I'm not familliar with the concept of anycast at layer-2.
I think that ethernet supports this, but that actually one would have the multicast bit set. =A0I think that you'd have to do the same thing on 8= 02.11.
I guess that 15.4 has a specific support for this, or is just a choice of a=
particular unicast mac?

Dear Michael, all,

There is no specific support for anycast in 802.15.4, but the standard= MAC layers can easily be used for anycast (often by setting multicast/broa= dcast + ACK bits).
I've see prototypes for 802.15.4 beacon-enabled [1], for a 15.4e R= IT-like MAC [2], and for a CSL-like MAC (our own implementation uses Contik= iMAC, which is similar CSL).
Should also be possible with 15.4 TSCH or even 802.11 PSM.
Doing this on an always-on link like ethernet or traditional 802.11 is= more tricky because you need an agreement procedure so that only one neigh= bor that received the packet forwards it. There exist solutions for WiFi, s= uch as ExOR [3], which introduced opportunistic for 802.11 back in 2005. I don't think we want to go int= o this though; I'd rather simply stipulate that anycast is required at = the MAC layer and possibly give some hints on how to support it on the most= common MAC protocols.

Best,
Simon



--
Michael Richardson <mcr+IETF@sandelman.ca>, Sandelman Software Works
IETF ROLL WG co-chair. =A0 =A0http://datatracker.ietf.org/wg/roll/charter/<= /a>


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--047d7bf0cd0292041504f407c79c-- From nobody Fri Mar 7 10:17:20 2014 Return-Path: X-Original-To: roll@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: roll@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id D97601A00BC for ; Fri, 7 Mar 2014 10:17:18 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.277 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.277 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, FM_FORGED_GMAIL=0.622, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id aCI7WraMBh4U for ; Fri, 7 Mar 2014 10:17:16 -0800 (PST) Received: from mail-ve0-x22a.google.com (mail-ve0-x22a.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:400c:c01::22a]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id D392A1A00A2 for ; Fri, 7 Mar 2014 10:17:15 -0800 (PST) Received: by mail-ve0-f170.google.com with SMTP id pa12so4594586veb.15 for ; Fri, 07 Mar 2014 10:17:11 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20120113; h=mime-version:sender:in-reply-to:references:date:message-id:subject :from:to:cc:content-type; bh=bIPH8RxXwXBG/ZtyRv2F+0my2wqLaVe/2J86r4LvZu8=; b=onUL3Fuu4Y5xhhgFaeIKDpsxr51hsZaMT3RGy2YQSbBkh5NzjkI8gidGijDUjbz9XF pOj75QR3Q2FZnFfONOHFDR2bYq/D89ZwndybixoNKTOk6ytnvDhQXflFoP/H/oD7cMe1 Xpv5YDxrkgm58UZ0de8ma7SXoBJyK7hxP/CQMIzOJDhYUtJfyLDce1lMvPu1FDiGUXI/ ILG5fMMJ2nSBT1LwOUu6OC0fhRcYOkfPrOF1Bf6UecM0DVuw8l+53oK8Zf0MOaCwY2PD 6+pqVd2Hyx5UqtEAu1/OEkV30L3lcFxhhi3UwJKpStfMH/jPEGEfmZYPxeHB/pCDZ1dZ Sz7w== MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Received: by 10.52.11.100 with SMTP id p4mr765775vdb.52.1394216231075; Fri, 07 Mar 2014 10:17:11 -0800 (PST) Sender: simon.duquennoy@gmail.com Received: by 10.220.150.209 with HTTP; Fri, 7 Mar 2014 10:17:11 -0800 (PST) In-Reply-To: References: <19299.1394195834@sandelman.ca> <8B665F7F-8EA1-4150-924D-46F722BC5FC8@cisco.com> Date: Fri, 7 Mar 2014 19:17:11 +0100 X-Google-Sender-Auth: eH_5CFELJx2Q7rvni0j9nS_wJ6I Message-ID: From: Simon Duquennoy To: Routing Over Low power and Lossy networks Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=20cf3030bfd53183f904f40843b4 Archived-At: http://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/roll/Qmv_1CLL3PxL9O9JDG9mxuULbUg Cc: Quentin Lampin Subject: Re: [Roll] Interest in opportunistic routing? X-BeenThere: roll@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list Reply-To: Routing Over Low power and Lossy networks List-Id: Routing Over Low power and Lossy networks List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 07 Mar 2014 18:17:19 -0000 --20cf3030bfd53183f904f40843b4 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable As a complement: * a visualization of ORPL during a 60-minute run: http://simonduquennoy.net/resources/orpl-animation.html * the slides of the SenSys'13 presentation: http://simonduquennoy.net/resources/131111-oprl-sensys.pptx Thanks, Simon On Fri, Mar 7, 2014 at 6:42 PM, Simon Duquennoy wrote: > Dear Pascal, > > AFAICT it does go along the same lines as Quentin's work. The main > difference is that we support addressable nodes, i.e. not only upwards bu= t > also downwards routing. > > As you're asking for more, let me elaborate a bit on how I see our > protocol (ORPL) integrated in RPL :) > * routing decision (assuming storing mode): the forwarding decision is > made at the receiver, not at the sender. Upon receiving a packet, a node > decides whether to forward it based on (1) its rank and (2) the inclusion > of the destination IPv6 address into its routing table. > - If the packet is going up and the node has a lower rank then it will > forward with upwards anycast. > - If the packet is going up or down and the node has a higher rank, and > the destination IPv6 address is in the routing table (i.e. the destinatio= n > is below in the DODAG) then it will forward with downwards anycast. > One interesting thing is any-to-any routing is that ORPL has many more > common ancestors to use than RPL. In our experiments, any-to-any routing = is > where the benefits of ORPL are most significant, with the latency between > leaf nodes improved with a factor up to 15 (case where RPL has a common > ancestor several hops away whereas ORPL exploits many ancestors closer to > the source and destination). > * routing tables: the standard RPL tables will do. It is however worth > noting that because anycast transmission do not target a specific receive= r, > all we need at every node is not a full routing table ( hop> pairs) but only a set of reachable destinations. This makes the tabl= e > potentially more compact. In the paper we investigate fancy structures fo= r > this such as Bloom filter but I regard this as out of the scope for a > potential integration in standard RPL. > * routing metric: ORPL can work with any routing metric, the only > requirement is to have a DODAG. In the SenSys'13 paper we use our own > metric, which is opportunistic routing-oriented. It helps but isn't > strictly required (could possibly be the object of a separate draft) > > Regarding performance: our testbed experiments are on duty-cycled 802.15.= 4 > nodes. We get great reliability. In the current implementation of ORPL > (posterior to the paper) we have most of the runs with 100% delivery rati= o > (about 1500 packets sent and received end-to-end during the course of an > hour). The reason is that ORPL is not affected at all by isolated link > losses. It doesn't even notice it. If the link a parent is dead for some > time then another parent will forward the packet. The other side benefits > are latency and energy: when having duty cycled nodes, anycast nicely use= s > the first that wakes up and gets the packet successfully, making the wake= up > procedure cheaper. A final note: opportunistic routing is great especiall= y > in dense environments, as there are more links to exploit. In sparser > environments, as far as we have observed, the benefits reduce but are sti= ll > present. > > The SenSys'13 paper contains a detailed design and thorough experimental > evaluation: > http://www.simonduquennoy.net/papers/duquennoy13orpl.pdf > > If you want to know even more, I'm open to having a phone call. > > Best, > Simon > > > > On Fri, Mar 7, 2014 at 4:28 PM, Pascal Thubert (pthubert) < > pthubert@cisco.com> wrote: > >> I'd love to hear more. This work reminds me of interesting Results >> Quentin showed at his PhD... >> >> Pascal >> >> Le 7 mars 2014 =E0 14:47, "Simon Duquennoy" a =E9crit= : >> >> On Fri, Mar 7, 2014 at 1:37 PM, Michael Richardson < >> mcr+ietf@sandelman.ca> wrote: >> >>> >>> Simon Duquennoy wrote: >>> > We have designed an opportunistic extension of RPL, where the >>> basic idea is to >>> > exploit all links of the DODAG rather than the tree defined by >>> links to >>> > preferred parents. We do this using anycast: transmissions are >>> intended either >>> > (upwards) to any parent or (downwards) to any child having the >>> destination >>> > below in the DODAG. >>> >>> This is very interesting. >>> >>> > We have a working prototype [1] in Contiki that we evaluated >>> thoroughly in a >>> > 135-node testbed [2]. In a 4-min packet interval data collection, >>> we increase >>> > the reliability of RPL from 97.4 to 99.5%, while halving the >>> latency (below >>> > 0.5s) and radio duty cycle (below 0.5%). >>> >>> > If there is interest, we can come up with a simplified version of >>> the design >>> > presented in the paper, and propose a way to integrate it in RPL >>> through only a >>> > few minor additions. To be more specific, the simplified version >>> would use the >>> > existing RPL routing tables rather than Bloom filters, and would >>> be MAC-layer >>> > agnostic (the only assumption being that the MAC layer supports >>> > anycast). >>> >>> I'm not familliar with the concept of anycast at layer-2. >>> I think that ethernet supports this, but that actually one would have t= he >>> multicast bit set. I think that you'd have to do the same thing on >>> 802.11. >>> I guess that 15.4 has a specific support for this, or is just a choice >>> of a >>> particular unicast mac? >>> >> >> Dear Michael, all, >> >> There is no specific support for anycast in 802.15.4, but the standard >> MAC layers can easily be used for anycast (often by setting >> multicast/broadcast + ACK bits). >> I've see prototypes for 802.15.4 beacon-enabled [1], for a 15.4e RIT-lik= e >> MAC [2], and for a CSL-like MAC (our own implementation uses ContikiMAC, >> which is similar CSL). >> Should also be possible with 15.4 TSCH or even 802.11 PSM. >> Doing this on an always-on link like ethernet or traditional 802.11 is >> more tricky because you need an agreement procedure so that only one >> neighbor that received the packet forwards it. There exist solutions for >> WiFi, such as ExOR [3], which introduced opportunistic for 802.11 back i= n >> 2005. I don't think we want to go into this though; I'd rather simply >> stipulate that anycast is required at the MAC layer and possibly give so= me >> hints on how to support it on the most common MAC protocols. >> >> Best, >> Simon >> >> [1] >> http://clarinet.u-strasbg.fr/~theoleyre/uploads/Publis/pavkovic11rpl.pdf >> [2] http://www.ti5.tuhh.de/publications/2012/EWSN12_Orinoco.pdf >> [3] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ExOR_(wireless_network_protocol) >> >> >>> -- >>> Michael Richardson , Sandelman Software Works >>> IETF ROLL WG co-chair. http://datatracker.ietf.org/wg/roll/charter/ >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> Roll mailing list >>> Roll@ietf.org >>> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/roll >>> >>> >> _______________________________________________ >> Roll mailing list >> Roll@ietf.org >> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/roll >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Roll mailing list >> Roll@ietf.org >> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/roll >> >> > --20cf3030bfd53183f904f40843b4 Content-Type: text/html; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
As a complement:
* a visualization of ORPL during= a 60-minute run:
* the slides of the SenSys'13 presentation:

Thanks,
Simon



On Fri, Mar 7, 2014 at 6:42= PM, Simon Duquennoy <simonduq@sics.se> wrote:
Dear Pascal,

=
AFAICT it does go along the same lines as Quentin's work. The main= difference is that we support addressable nodes, i.e. not only upwards but= also downwards routing.

As you're asking for more, let me elaborate a bit o= n how I see our protocol (ORPL) integrated in RPL :)
* routing de= cision (assuming storing mode): the forwarding decision is made at the rece= iver, not at the sender. Upon receiving a packet, a node decides whether to= forward it based on (1) its rank and (2) the inclusion of the destination = IPv6 address into its routing table.
=A0 - If the packet is going up and the node has a lower rank then it = will forward with upwards anycast.
=A0 - If the packet is going u= p or down and the node has a higher rank, and the destination IPv6 address = is in the routing table (i.e. the destination is below in the DODAG) then i= t will forward with downwards anycast.
One interesting thing is any-to-any routing is that ORPL has many more= common ancestors to use than RPL. In our experiments, any-to-any routing i= s where the benefits of ORPL are most significant, with the latency between= leaf nodes improved with a factor up to 15 (case where RPL has a common an= cestor several hops away whereas ORPL exploits many ancestors closer to the= source and destination).
* routing tables: the standard RPL tables will do. It is however worth= noting that because anycast transmission do not target a specific receiver= , all we need at every node is not a full routing table (<destination,ne= xt hop> pairs) but only a set of reachable destinations. This makes the = table potentially more compact. In the paper we investigate fancy structure= s for this such as Bloom filter but I regard this as out of the scope for a= potential integration in standard RPL.
* routing metric: ORPL can work with any routing metric, the only requ= irement is to have a DODAG. In the SenSys'13 paper we use our own metri= c, which is opportunistic routing-oriented. It helps but isn't strictly= required (could possibly be the object of a separate draft)

Regarding performance: our testbed experiments ar= e on duty-cycled 802.15.4 nodes. We get great reliability. In the current i= mplementation of ORPL (posterior to the paper) we have most of the runs wit= h 100% delivery ratio (about 1500 packets sent and received end-to-end duri= ng the course of an hour). The reason is that ORPL is not affected at all b= y isolated link losses. It doesn't even notice it. If the link a parent= is dead for some time then another parent will forward the packet. The oth= er side benefits are latency and energy: when having duty cycled nodes, any= cast nicely uses the first that wakes up and gets the packet successfully, = making the wakeup procedure cheaper. A final note: opportunistic routing is= great especially in dense environments, as there are more links to exploit= . In sparser environments, as far as we have observed, the benefits reduce = but are still present.

The SenSys'13 paper contains a detailed design and = thorough experimental evaluation:

If you want to know even more, I'm open to ha= ving a phone call.

Best,
Simon
=



On Fri, Mar 7, 2014 at 4:28 PM, Pascal Thubert (pthubert) <pthubert@cisco= .com> wrote:
I'd love to hear more. This work reminds me of interesting Results= Quentin showed at his PhD...=A0

Pascal

Le 7 mars 2014 =E0 14:47, "Simon Duquennoy" <simonduq@sics.se> a =E9crit=A0:=

On Fri, Mar 7, 2014 at 1:37 PM, Michael Richards= on <mcr+ietf@san= delman.ca> wrote:

Simon Duquennoy <s= imonduq@sics.se> wrote:
=A0 =A0 > We have designed an opportunistic extension of RPL, where the = basic idea is to
=A0 =A0 > exploit all links of the DODAG rather than the tree defined by= links to
=A0 =A0 > preferred parents. We do this using anycast: transmissions are= intended either
=A0 =A0 > (upwards) to any parent or (downwards) to any child having the= destination
=A0 =A0 > below in the DODAG.

This is very interesting.

=A0 =A0 > We have a working prototype [1] in Contiki that we evaluated t= horoughly in a
=A0 =A0 > 135-node testbed [2]. In a 4-min packet interval data collecti= on, we increase
=A0 =A0 > the reliability of RPL from 97.4 to 99.5%, while halving the l= atency (below
=A0 =A0 > 0.5s) and radio duty cycle (below 0.5%).

=A0 =A0 > If there is interest, we can come up with a simplified version= of the design
=A0 =A0 > presented in the paper, and propose a way to integrate it in R= PL through only a
=A0 =A0 > few minor additions. To be more specific, the simplified versi= on would use the
=A0 =A0 > existing RPL routing tables rather than Bloom filters, and wou= ld be MAC-layer
=A0 =A0 > agnostic (the only assumption being that the MAC layer support= s
=A0 =A0 > anycast).

I'm not familliar with the concept of anycast at layer-2.
I think that ethernet supports this, but that actually one would have the multicast bit set. =A0I think that you'd have to do the same thing on 8= 02.11.
I guess that 15.4 has a specific support for this, or is just a choice of a=
particular unicast mac?

Dear Michael, all,

There is no specific support for anycast in 802.15.4, but the standard= MAC layers can easily be used for anycast (often by setting multicast/broa= dcast + ACK bits).
I've see prototypes for 802.15.4 beacon-enabled [1], for a 15.4e R= IT-like MAC [2], and for a CSL-like MAC (our own implementation uses Contik= iMAC, which is similar CSL).
Should also be possible with 15.4 TSCH or even 802.11 PSM.
Doing this on an always-on link like ethernet or traditional 802.11 is= more tricky because you need an agreement procedure so that only one neigh= bor that received the packet forwards it. There exist solutions for WiFi, s= uch as ExOR [3], which introduced opportunistic for 802.11 back in 2005. I don't think we want to go int= o this though; I'd rather simply stipulate that anycast is required at = the MAC layer and possibly give some hints on how to support it on the most= common MAC protocols.

Best,
Simon



--
Michael Richardson <mcr+IETF@sandelman.ca>, Sandelman Software Works
IETF ROLL WG co-chair. =A0 =A0http://datatracker.ietf.org/wg/roll/charter/<= /a>


_______________________________________________
Roll mailing list
Roll@ietf.org
ht= tps://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/roll


_______________________________________________
Roll mailing list
Roll@ietf.org<= /span>
https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/roll

_______________________________________________
Roll mailing list
Roll@ietf.org
ht= tps://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/roll



--20cf3030bfd53183f904f40843b4-- From nobody Sat Mar 8 08:20:59 2014 Return-Path: X-Original-To: roll@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: roll@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8F7E41A02A7 for ; Sat, 8 Mar 2014 08:20:57 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.377 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.377 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, FM_FORGED_GMAIL=0.622, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id ChqFI5gVgyW8 for ; Sat, 8 Mar 2014 08:20:54 -0800 (PST) Received: from mail-vc0-x22b.google.com (mail-vc0-x22b.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:400c:c03::22b]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 961A11A029C for ; Sat, 8 Mar 2014 08:20:54 -0800 (PST) Received: by mail-vc0-f171.google.com with SMTP id le5so5562044vcb.30 for ; Sat, 08 Mar 2014 08:20:49 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=googlemail.com; s=20120113; h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:date:message-id:subject:from:to :cc:content-type; bh=WJXVNGG76nA818sBY4yMcNvyl99IzQE0iaWUkae3Vu4=; b=AiOO9bftMDS0NlUbxKXc9drynPp30lxZWIiPHHLGyhorOWPXLgQcoYYZisWpRBtA7L TE0twbFTCcQbuVT6hRArJxmaNix44S/MgFnmULj6DYxRwnmz7SwMEUiMQRzuJdS+oFyI Vs6d+LzcVKBQx5p16/QwLn1Mc8F3Mvx8lV/njMO8JK9+F09VRhsGOwEwjvs3PRfkVhsU t/QThqedDKiUYcWs1xd84PDWkG2UD+gOvy2Uw3OSKdCdHBEfz61gAO+W6QfQQlb8Mb88 0bSVRVez8F0MrYiPU6OSEO9M5Nah/hM+pM6DUTgJ3vnINMFVn5WI/Upx44LURhuQItLO AQoQ== MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Received: by 10.221.26.10 with SMTP id rk10mr15375629vcb.0.1394295649740; Sat, 08 Mar 2014 08:20:49 -0800 (PST) Received: by 10.221.16.3 with HTTP; Sat, 8 Mar 2014 08:20:49 -0800 (PST) In-Reply-To: References: <19299.1394195834@sandelman.ca> <8B665F7F-8EA1-4150-924D-46F722BC5FC8@cisco.com> Date: Sat, 8 Mar 2014 13:20:49 -0300 Message-ID: From: Ines Robles To: Routing Over Low power and Lossy networks Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=001a11339ae4ea2e2204f41ac06e Archived-At: http://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/roll/q2B59MADahyvKN5O5VokMR6oOZ4 Cc: Quentin Lampin Subject: Re: [Roll] Interest in opportunistic routing? X-BeenThere: roll@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list Reply-To: Routing Over Low power and Lossy networks List-Id: Routing Over Low power and Lossy networks List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sat, 08 Mar 2014 16:20:57 -0000 --001a11339ae4ea2e2204f41ac06e Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hi Simon, Thank you very much for share ORPL with us. I think it would be good to present it in the plugfests in next IETFs, in case that it takes place. The plugfest for this last IETF [ http://www.ietf.org/proceedings/89/slides/slides-89-6tisch-0.pdf] starting in slide 65. Kind Regards, Ines. 2014-03-07 15:17 GMT-03:00 Simon Duquennoy : > As a complement: > * a visualization of ORPL during a 60-minute run: > http://simonduquennoy.net/resources/orpl-animation.html > * the slides of the SenSys'13 presentation: > http://simonduquennoy.net/resources/131111-oprl-sensys.pptx > > Thanks, > Simon > > > > On Fri, Mar 7, 2014 at 6:42 PM, Simon Duquennoy wrote: > >> Dear Pascal, >> >> AFAICT it does go along the same lines as Quentin's work. The main >> difference is that we support addressable nodes, i.e. not only upwards b= ut >> also downwards routing. >> >> As you're asking for more, let me elaborate a bit on how I see our >> protocol (ORPL) integrated in RPL :) >> * routing decision (assuming storing mode): the forwarding decision is >> made at the receiver, not at the sender. Upon receiving a packet, a node >> decides whether to forward it based on (1) its rank and (2) the inclusio= n >> of the destination IPv6 address into its routing table. >> - If the packet is going up and the node has a lower rank then it will >> forward with upwards anycast. >> - If the packet is going up or down and the node has a higher rank, an= d >> the destination IPv6 address is in the routing table (i.e. the destinati= on >> is below in the DODAG) then it will forward with downwards anycast. >> One interesting thing is any-to-any routing is that ORPL has many more >> common ancestors to use than RPL. In our experiments, any-to-any routing= is >> where the benefits of ORPL are most significant, with the latency betwee= n >> leaf nodes improved with a factor up to 15 (case where RPL has a common >> ancestor several hops away whereas ORPL exploits many ancestors closer t= o >> the source and destination). >> * routing tables: the standard RPL tables will do. It is however worth >> noting that because anycast transmission do not target a specific receiv= er, >> all we need at every node is not a full routing table (> hop> pairs) but only a set of reachable destinations. This makes the tab= le >> potentially more compact. In the paper we investigate fancy structures f= or >> this such as Bloom filter but I regard this as out of the scope for a >> potential integration in standard RPL. >> * routing metric: ORPL can work with any routing metric, the only >> requirement is to have a DODAG. In the SenSys'13 paper we use our own >> metric, which is opportunistic routing-oriented. It helps but isn't >> strictly required (could possibly be the object of a separate draft) >> >> Regarding performance: our testbed experiments are on duty-cycled >> 802.15.4 nodes. We get great reliability. In the current implementation = of >> ORPL (posterior to the paper) we have most of the runs with 100% deliver= y >> ratio (about 1500 packets sent and received end-to-end during the course= of >> an hour). The reason is that ORPL is not affected at all by isolated lin= k >> losses. It doesn't even notice it. If the link a parent is dead for some >> time then another parent will forward the packet. The other side benefit= s >> are latency and energy: when having duty cycled nodes, anycast nicely us= es >> the first that wakes up and gets the packet successfully, making the wak= eup >> procedure cheaper. A final note: opportunistic routing is great especial= ly >> in dense environments, as there are more links to exploit. In sparser >> environments, as far as we have observed, the benefits reduce but are st= ill >> present. >> >> The SenSys'13 paper contains a detailed design and thorough experimental >> evaluation: >> http://www.simonduquennoy.net/papers/duquennoy13orpl.pdf >> >> If you want to know even more, I'm open to having a phone call. >> >> Best, >> Simon >> >> >> >> On Fri, Mar 7, 2014 at 4:28 PM, Pascal Thubert (pthubert) < >> pthubert@cisco.com> wrote: >> >>> I'd love to hear more. This work reminds me of interesting Results >>> Quentin showed at his PhD... >>> >>> Pascal >>> >>> Le 7 mars 2014 =E0 14:47, "Simon Duquennoy" a =E9cri= t : >>> >>> On Fri, Mar 7, 2014 at 1:37 PM, Michael Richardson < >>> mcr+ietf@sandelman.ca> wrote: >>> >>>> >>>> Simon Duquennoy wrote: >>>> > We have designed an opportunistic extension of RPL, where the >>>> basic idea is to >>>> > exploit all links of the DODAG rather than the tree defined by >>>> links to >>>> > preferred parents. We do this using anycast: transmissions are >>>> intended either >>>> > (upwards) to any parent or (downwards) to any child having the >>>> destination >>>> > below in the DODAG. >>>> >>>> This is very interesting. >>>> >>>> > We have a working prototype [1] in Contiki that we evaluated >>>> thoroughly in a >>>> > 135-node testbed [2]. In a 4-min packet interval data collection= , >>>> we increase >>>> > the reliability of RPL from 97.4 to 99.5%, while halving the >>>> latency (below >>>> > 0.5s) and radio duty cycle (below 0.5%). >>>> >>>> > If there is interest, we can come up with a simplified version o= f >>>> the design >>>> > presented in the paper, and propose a way to integrate it in RPL >>>> through only a >>>> > few minor additions. To be more specific, the simplified version >>>> would use the >>>> > existing RPL routing tables rather than Bloom filters, and would >>>> be MAC-layer >>>> > agnostic (the only assumption being that the MAC layer supports >>>> > anycast). >>>> >>>> I'm not familliar with the concept of anycast at layer-2. >>>> I think that ethernet supports this, but that actually one would have >>>> the >>>> multicast bit set. I think that you'd have to do the same thing on >>>> 802.11. >>>> I guess that 15.4 has a specific support for this, or is just a choice >>>> of a >>>> particular unicast mac? >>>> >>> >>> Dear Michael, all, >>> >>> There is no specific support for anycast in 802.15.4, but the standard >>> MAC layers can easily be used for anycast (often by setting >>> multicast/broadcast + ACK bits). >>> I've see prototypes for 802.15.4 beacon-enabled [1], for a 15.4e >>> RIT-like MAC [2], and for a CSL-like MAC (our own implementation uses >>> ContikiMAC, which is similar CSL). >>> Should also be possible with 15.4 TSCH or even 802.11 PSM. >>> Doing this on an always-on link like ethernet or traditional 802.11 is >>> more tricky because you need an agreement procedure so that only one >>> neighbor that received the packet forwards it. There exist solutions fo= r >>> WiFi, such as ExOR [3], which introduced opportunistic for 802.11 back = in >>> 2005. I don't think we want to go into this though; I'd rather simply >>> stipulate that anycast is required at the MAC layer and possibly give s= ome >>> hints on how to support it on the most common MAC protocols. >>> >>> Best, >>> Simon >>> >>> [1] >>> http://clarinet.u-strasbg.fr/~theoleyre/uploads/Publis/pavkovic11rpl.pd= f >>> [2] http://www.ti5.tuhh.de/publications/2012/EWSN12_Orinoco.pdf >>> [3] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ExOR_(wireless_network_protocol) >>> >>> >>>> -- >>>> Michael Richardson , Sandelman Software Works >>>> IETF ROLL WG co-chair. http://datatracker.ietf.org/wg/roll/charter/ >>>> >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> Roll mailing list >>>> Roll@ietf.org >>>> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/roll >>>> >>>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> Roll mailing list >>> Roll@ietf.org >>> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/roll >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> Roll mailing list >>> Roll@ietf.org >>> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/roll >>> >>> >> > > _______________________________________________ > Roll mailing list > Roll@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/roll > > --001a11339ae4ea2e2204f41ac06e Content-Type: text/html; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Hi Simon,=A0

Thank you very = much for share ORPL with us.

I think it would be g= ood to present it in the plugfests in next IETFs, in case that it takes pla= ce.

The plugfest for this last IETF [http://www.ietf.org/= proceedings/89/slides/slides-89-6tisch-0.pdf] starting in slide 65.

Kind Regards,

Ines.


2014-03-07 15:17 G= MT-03:00 Simon Duquennoy <simonduq@sics.se>:
As a complement:
*= a visualization of ORPL during a 60-minute run:
* the slides of the SenSys'13 presentation:

Thanks,
Simon



On Fri, Mar 7, 2014 at 6:42 PM, Simon Duquennoy <simonduq@sics= .se> wrote:
Dear Pascal,

=
AFAICT it does go along the same lines as Quentin's work. The main= difference is that we support addressable nodes, i.e. not only upwards but= also downwards routing.

As you're asking for more, let me elaborate a bit o= n how I see our protocol (ORPL) integrated in RPL :)
* routing de= cision (assuming storing mode): the forwarding decision is made at the rece= iver, not at the sender. Upon receiving a packet, a node decides whether to= forward it based on (1) its rank and (2) the inclusion of the destination = IPv6 address into its routing table.
=A0 - If the packet is going up and the node has a lower rank then it = will forward with upwards anycast.
=A0 - If the packet is going u= p or down and the node has a higher rank, and the destination IPv6 address = is in the routing table (i.e. the destination is below in the DODAG) then i= t will forward with downwards anycast.
One interesting thing is any-to-any routing is that ORPL has many more= common ancestors to use than RPL. In our experiments, any-to-any routing i= s where the benefits of ORPL are most significant, with the latency between= leaf nodes improved with a factor up to 15 (case where RPL has a common an= cestor several hops away whereas ORPL exploits many ancestors closer to the= source and destination).
* routing tables: the standard RPL tables will do. It is however worth= noting that because anycast transmission do not target a specific receiver= , all we need at every node is not a full routing table (<destination,ne= xt hop> pairs) but only a set of reachable destinations. This makes the = table potentially more compact. In the paper we investigate fancy structure= s for this such as Bloom filter but I regard this as out of the scope for a= potential integration in standard RPL.
* routing metric: ORPL can work with any routing metric, the only requ= irement is to have a DODAG. In the SenSys'13 paper we use our own metri= c, which is opportunistic routing-oriented. It helps but isn't strictly= required (could possibly be the object of a separate draft)

Regarding performance: our testbed experiments ar= e on duty-cycled 802.15.4 nodes. We get great reliability. In the current i= mplementation of ORPL (posterior to the paper) we have most of the runs wit= h 100% delivery ratio (about 1500 packets sent and received end-to-end duri= ng the course of an hour). The reason is that ORPL is not affected at all b= y isolated link losses. It doesn't even notice it. If the link a parent= is dead for some time then another parent will forward the packet. The oth= er side benefits are latency and energy: when having duty cycled nodes, any= cast nicely uses the first that wakes up and gets the packet successfully, = making the wakeup procedure cheaper. A final note: opportunistic routing is= great especially in dense environments, as there are more links to exploit= . In sparser environments, as far as we have observed, the benefits reduce = but are still present.

The SenSys'13 paper contains a detailed design and = thorough experimental evaluation:

If you want to know even more, I'm open to ha= ving a phone call.

Best,
Simon
=



On Fri, Mar 7, 2014 at 4:28 PM, Pascal Thubert (pthubert) <pthubert@cisco= .com> wrote:
I'd love to hear more. This work reminds me of interesting Results= Quentin showed at his PhD...=A0

Pascal

Le 7 mars 2014 =E0 14:47, "Simon Duquennoy" <simonduq@sics.se> a =E9crit=A0:=

On Fri, Mar 7, 2014 at 1:37 PM, Michael Richards= on <mcr+ietf@san= delman.ca> wrote:

Simon Duquennoy <s= imonduq@sics.se> wrote:
=A0 =A0 > We have designed an opportunistic extension of RPL, where the = basic idea is to
=A0 =A0 > exploit all links of the DODAG rather than the tree defined by= links to
=A0 =A0 > preferred parents. We do this using anycast: transmissions are= intended either
=A0 =A0 > (upwards) to any parent or (downwards) to any child having the= destination
=A0 =A0 > below in the DODAG.

This is very interesting.

=A0 =A0 > We have a working prototype [1] in Contiki that we evaluated t= horoughly in a
=A0 =A0 > 135-node testbed [2]. In a 4-min packet interval data collecti= on, we increase
=A0 =A0 > the reliability of RPL from 97.4 to 99.5%, while halving the l= atency (below
=A0 =A0 > 0.5s) and radio duty cycle (below 0.5%).

=A0 =A0 > If there is interest, we can come up with a simplified version= of the design
=A0 =A0 > presented in the paper, and propose a way to integrate it in R= PL through only a
=A0 =A0 > few minor additions. To be more specific, the simplified versi= on would use the
=A0 =A0 > existing RPL routing tables rather than Bloom filters, and wou= ld be MAC-layer
=A0 =A0 > agnostic (the only assumption being that the MAC layer support= s
=A0 =A0 > anycast).

I'm not familliar with the concept of anycast at layer-2.
I think that ethernet supports this, but that actually one would have the multicast bit set. =A0I think that you'd have to do the same thing on 8= 02.11.
I guess that 15.4 has a specific support for this, or is just a choice of a=
particular unicast mac?

Dear Michael, all,

There is no specific support for anycast in 802.15.4, but the standard= MAC layers can easily be used for anycast (often by setting multicast/broa= dcast + ACK bits).
I've see prototypes for 802.15.4 beacon-enabled [1], for a 15.4e R= IT-like MAC [2], and for a CSL-like MAC (our own implementation uses Contik= iMAC, which is similar CSL).
Should also be possible with 15.4 TSCH or even 802.11 PSM.
Doing this on an always-on link like ethernet or traditional 802.11 is= more tricky because you need an agreement procedure so that only one neigh= bor that received the packet forwards it. There exist solutions for WiFi, s= uch as ExOR [3], which introduced opportunistic for 802.11 back in 2005. I don't think we want to go int= o this though; I'd rather simply stipulate that anycast is required at = the MAC layer and possibly give some hints on how to support it on the most= common MAC protocols.

Best,
Simon



--
Michael Richardson <mcr+IETF@sandelman.ca>, Sandelman Software Works
IETF ROLL WG co-chair. =A0 =A0http://datatracker.ietf.org/wg/roll/charter/<= /a>


_______________________________________________
Roll mailing list
Roll@ietf.org
ht= tps://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/roll


_______________________________________________
Roll mailing list
Roll@ietf.org<= /span>
https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/roll

_______________________________________________
Roll mailing list
Roll@ietf.org
ht= tps://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/roll




_______________________________________________
Roll mailing list
Roll@ietf.org
ht= tps://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/roll


--001a11339ae4ea2e2204f41ac06e-- From nobody Sat Mar 8 08:59:50 2014 Return-Path: X-Original-To: roll@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: roll@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6CCFB1A0164 for ; Sat, 8 Mar 2014 08:59:49 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.277 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.277 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, FM_FORGED_GMAIL=0.622, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id UaUToCcCOFrh for ; Sat, 8 Mar 2014 08:59:45 -0800 (PST) Received: from mail-ve0-x232.google.com (mail-ve0-x232.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:400c:c01::232]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id A58F11A0064 for ; Sat, 8 Mar 2014 08:59:41 -0800 (PST) Received: by mail-ve0-f178.google.com with SMTP id jw12so5604104veb.9 for ; Sat, 08 Mar 2014 08:59:36 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20120113; h=mime-version:sender:in-reply-to:references:date:message-id:subject :from:to:cc:content-type; bh=Wqw53jA6g6YEOZoUDhWy39ab+SY0BXxuz/EOI84wktA=; b=0e/AZy18bm8CcVPaZvtMf4cW7Hwm9bMr5IMKMpBulQM21uaPE6SWmmd/JYaOFXGaPf jUmo8GM4SIaEWvu+/iygShEsBNshL7EXSjeeImXxSXGmf2JnOFugcnNpBMxS64JNGGxM v43NdREuZkk1/C0s1YK+kQmbmFUaL7Ft18BWFlEGauEQxgZX8C9KtLT8gF3mGOyaNhv1 mAMlTEVcz9XOvcePcRaHWIK5e3ZNB2SJVkFdhaGYOyNp7qmFtWO3pMjyAmni8+D3OF+X dQBl+SLg9eZIU8o9U7YViSeV+T9OacXvY1gYjkQUzgIQ5GWVNqa0WmjF8WCvZkxcEhCJ dIYA== MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Received: by 10.52.18.70 with SMTP id u6mr16695906vdd.11.1394297976697; Sat, 08 Mar 2014 08:59:36 -0800 (PST) Sender: simon.duquennoy@gmail.com Received: by 10.220.150.209 with HTTP; Sat, 8 Mar 2014 08:59:36 -0800 (PST) In-Reply-To: References: <19299.1394195834@sandelman.ca> <8B665F7F-8EA1-4150-924D-46F722BC5FC8@cisco.com> Date: Sat, 8 Mar 2014 17:59:36 +0100 X-Google-Sender-Auth: v4Seydm47YWCH0YPvkUDr3A9Jh4 Message-ID: From: Simon Duquennoy To: Routing Over Low power and Lossy networks Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=001a1136b6669cb97704f41b4b7d Archived-At: http://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/roll/CdZSkE1YNX1yYC9KPwlwNqs3H7Y Cc: Quentin Lampin Subject: Re: [Roll] Interest in opportunistic routing? X-BeenThere: roll@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list Reply-To: Routing Over Low power and Lossy networks List-Id: Routing Over Low power and Lossy networks List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sat, 08 Mar 2014 16:59:49 -0000 --001a1136b6669cb97704f41b4b7d Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Dear Ines, Do you mean you see ORPL fitting 6TiSCH? I was mostly targeting ROLL, as I see ORPL as a mac-independent addition to RPL. That being said, yes, thanks for the invite, I'll definitely consider presenting it at the next plugfest (potentially along with a TSCH implementation in Contiki that we hope to have by then). Best regards, Simon On Sat, Mar 8, 2014 at 5:20 PM, Ines Robles wrote: > Hi Simon, > > Thank you very much for share ORPL with us. > > I think it would be good to present it in the plugfests in next IETFs, in > case that it takes place. > > The plugfest for this last IETF [ > http://www.ietf.org/proceedings/89/slides/slides-89-6tisch-0.pdf] > starting in slide 65. > > Kind Regards, > > Ines. > > > 2014-03-07 15:17 GMT-03:00 Simon Duquennoy : > >> As a complement: >> * a visualization of ORPL during a 60-minute run: >> http://simonduquennoy.net/resources/orpl-animation.html >> * the slides of the SenSys'13 presentation: >> http://simonduquennoy.net/resources/131111-oprl-sensys.pptx >> >> Thanks, >> Simon >> >> >> >> On Fri, Mar 7, 2014 at 6:42 PM, Simon Duquennoy wrote= : >> >>> Dear Pascal, >>> >>> AFAICT it does go along the same lines as Quentin's work. The main >>> difference is that we support addressable nodes, i.e. not only upwards = but >>> also downwards routing. >>> >>> As you're asking for more, let me elaborate a bit on how I see our >>> protocol (ORPL) integrated in RPL :) >>> * routing decision (assuming storing mode): the forwarding decision is >>> made at the receiver, not at the sender. Upon receiving a packet, a nod= e >>> decides whether to forward it based on (1) its rank and (2) the inclusi= on >>> of the destination IPv6 address into its routing table. >>> - If the packet is going up and the node has a lower rank then it wil= l >>> forward with upwards anycast. >>> - If the packet is going up or down and the node has a higher rank, >>> and the destination IPv6 address is in the routing table (i.e. the >>> destination is below in the DODAG) then it will forward with downwards >>> anycast. >>> One interesting thing is any-to-any routing is that ORPL has many more >>> common ancestors to use than RPL. In our experiments, any-to-any routin= g is >>> where the benefits of ORPL are most significant, with the latency betwe= en >>> leaf nodes improved with a factor up to 15 (case where RPL has a common >>> ancestor several hops away whereas ORPL exploits many ancestors closer = to >>> the source and destination). >>> * routing tables: the standard RPL tables will do. It is however worth >>> noting that because anycast transmission do not target a specific recei= ver, >>> all we need at every node is not a full routing table (>> hop> pairs) but only a set of reachable destinations. This makes the ta= ble >>> potentially more compact. In the paper we investigate fancy structures = for >>> this such as Bloom filter but I regard this as out of the scope for a >>> potential integration in standard RPL. >>> * routing metric: ORPL can work with any routing metric, the only >>> requirement is to have a DODAG. In the SenSys'13 paper we use our own >>> metric, which is opportunistic routing-oriented. It helps but isn't >>> strictly required (could possibly be the object of a separate draft) >>> >>> Regarding performance: our testbed experiments are on duty-cycled >>> 802.15.4 nodes. We get great reliability. In the current implementation= of >>> ORPL (posterior to the paper) we have most of the runs with 100% delive= ry >>> ratio (about 1500 packets sent and received end-to-end during the cours= e of >>> an hour). The reason is that ORPL is not affected at all by isolated li= nk >>> losses. It doesn't even notice it. If the link a parent is dead for som= e >>> time then another parent will forward the packet. The other side benefi= ts >>> are latency and energy: when having duty cycled nodes, anycast nicely u= ses >>> the first that wakes up and gets the packet successfully, making the wa= keup >>> procedure cheaper. A final note: opportunistic routing is great especia= lly >>> in dense environments, as there are more links to exploit. In sparser >>> environments, as far as we have observed, the benefits reduce but are s= till >>> present. >>> >>> The SenSys'13 paper contains a detailed design and thorough experimenta= l >>> evaluation: >>> http://www.simonduquennoy.net/papers/duquennoy13orpl.pdf >>> >>> If you want to know even more, I'm open to having a phone call. >>> >>> Best, >>> Simon >>> >>> >>> >>> On Fri, Mar 7, 2014 at 4:28 PM, Pascal Thubert (pthubert) < >>> pthubert@cisco.com> wrote: >>> >>>> I'd love to hear more. This work reminds me of interesting Results >>>> Quentin showed at his PhD... >>>> >>>> Pascal >>>> >>>> Le 7 mars 2014 =E0 14:47, "Simon Duquennoy" a =E9cr= it : >>>> >>>> On Fri, Mar 7, 2014 at 1:37 PM, Michael Richardson < >>>> mcr+ietf@sandelman.ca> wrote: >>>> >>>>> >>>>> Simon Duquennoy wrote: >>>>> > We have designed an opportunistic extension of RPL, where the >>>>> basic idea is to >>>>> > exploit all links of the DODAG rather than the tree defined by >>>>> links to >>>>> > preferred parents. We do this using anycast: transmissions are >>>>> intended either >>>>> > (upwards) to any parent or (downwards) to any child having the >>>>> destination >>>>> > below in the DODAG. >>>>> >>>>> This is very interesting. >>>>> >>>>> > We have a working prototype [1] in Contiki that we evaluated >>>>> thoroughly in a >>>>> > 135-node testbed [2]. In a 4-min packet interval data >>>>> collection, we increase >>>>> > the reliability of RPL from 97.4 to 99.5%, while halving the >>>>> latency (below >>>>> > 0.5s) and radio duty cycle (below 0.5%). >>>>> >>>>> > If there is interest, we can come up with a simplified version >>>>> of the design >>>>> > presented in the paper, and propose a way to integrate it in RP= L >>>>> through only a >>>>> > few minor additions. To be more specific, the simplified versio= n >>>>> would use the >>>>> > existing RPL routing tables rather than Bloom filters, and woul= d >>>>> be MAC-layer >>>>> > agnostic (the only assumption being that the MAC layer supports >>>>> > anycast). >>>>> >>>>> I'm not familliar with the concept of anycast at layer-2. >>>>> I think that ethernet supports this, but that actually one would have >>>>> the >>>>> multicast bit set. I think that you'd have to do the same thing on >>>>> 802.11. >>>>> I guess that 15.4 has a specific support for this, or is just a choic= e >>>>> of a >>>>> particular unicast mac? >>>>> >>>> >>>> Dear Michael, all, >>>> >>>> There is no specific support for anycast in 802.15.4, but the >>>> standard MAC layers can easily be used for anycast (often by setting >>>> multicast/broadcast + ACK bits). >>>> I've see prototypes for 802.15.4 beacon-enabled [1], for a 15.4e >>>> RIT-like MAC [2], and for a CSL-like MAC (our own implementation uses >>>> ContikiMAC, which is similar CSL). >>>> Should also be possible with 15.4 TSCH or even 802.11 PSM. >>>> Doing this on an always-on link like ethernet or traditional 802.11 is >>>> more tricky because you need an agreement procedure so that only one >>>> neighbor that received the packet forwards it. There exist solutions f= or >>>> WiFi, such as ExOR [3], which introduced opportunistic for 802.11 back= in >>>> 2005. I don't think we want to go into this though; I'd rather simply >>>> stipulate that anycast is required at the MAC layer and possibly give = some >>>> hints on how to support it on the most common MAC protocols. >>>> >>>> Best, >>>> Simon >>>> >>>> [1] >>>> http://clarinet.u-strasbg.fr/~theoleyre/uploads/Publis/pavkovic11rpl.p= df >>>> [2] http://www.ti5.tuhh.de/publications/2012/EWSN12_Orinoco.pdf >>>> [3] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ExOR_(wireless_network_protocol) >>>> >>>> >>>>> -- >>>>> Michael Richardson , Sandelman Software Works >>>>> IETF ROLL WG co-chair. http://datatracker.ietf.org/wg/roll/charter= / >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> Roll mailing list >>>>> Roll@ietf.org >>>>> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/roll >>>>> >>>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> Roll mailing list >>>> Roll@ietf.org >>>> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/roll >>>> >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> Roll mailing list >>>> Roll@ietf.org >>>> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/roll >>>> >>>> >>> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Roll mailing list >> Roll@ietf.org >> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/roll >> >> > > _______________________________________________ > Roll mailing list > Roll@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/roll > > --001a1136b6669cb97704f41b4b7d Content-Type: text/html; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Dear Ines,

Do you mean you see ORPL fit= ting 6TiSCH? I was mostly targeting ROLL, as I see ORPL as a mac-independen= t addition to RPL.
That being said, yes, thanks for the invite, I= 'll definitely consider presenting it at the next plugfest (potentially= along with a TSCH implementation in Contiki that we hope to have by then).=

Best regards,
Simon



On Sat, Mar = 8, 2014 at 5:20 PM, Ines Robles <mariainesrobles@googlemail.= com> wrote:
Hi Simon,=A0

Thank you very much for share ORPL with us.

<= /div>
I think it would be good to present it in the plugfests in next IETFs,= in case that it takes place.

The plugfest for this last IETF [ht= tp://www.ietf.org/proceedings/89/slides/slides-89-6tisch-0.pdf] startin= g in slide 65.

Kind Regards,

Ines.


2014-03-07 15:17 G= MT-03:00 Simon Duquennoy <simonduq@sics.se>:
As a complement:
*= a visualization of ORPL during a 60-minute run:
* the slides of the SenSys'13 presentation:

Thanks,
Simon



On Fri, Mar 7, 20= 14 at 6:42 PM, Simon Duquennoy <simonduq@sics.se> wrote:
Dear Pascal,

=
AFAICT it does go along the same lines as Quentin's work. The main= difference is that we support addressable nodes, i.e. not only upwards but= also downwards routing.

As you're asking for more, let me elaborate a bit o= n how I see our protocol (ORPL) integrated in RPL :)
* routing de= cision (assuming storing mode): the forwarding decision is made at the rece= iver, not at the sender. Upon receiving a packet, a node decides whether to= forward it based on (1) its rank and (2) the inclusion of the destination = IPv6 address into its routing table.
=A0 - If the packet is going up and the node has a lower rank then it = will forward with upwards anycast.
=A0 - If the packet is going u= p or down and the node has a higher rank, and the destination IPv6 address = is in the routing table (i.e. the destination is below in the DODAG) then i= t will forward with downwards anycast.
One interesting thing is any-to-any routing is that ORPL has many more= common ancestors to use than RPL. In our experiments, any-to-any routing i= s where the benefits of ORPL are most significant, with the latency between= leaf nodes improved with a factor up to 15 (case where RPL has a common an= cestor several hops away whereas ORPL exploits many ancestors closer to the= source and destination).
* routing tables: the standard RPL tables will do. It is however worth= noting that because anycast transmission do not target a specific receiver= , all we need at every node is not a full routing table (<destination,ne= xt hop> pairs) but only a set of reachable destinations. This makes the = table potentially more compact. In the paper we investigate fancy structure= s for this such as Bloom filter but I regard this as out of the scope for a= potential integration in standard RPL.
* routing metric: ORPL can work with any routing metric, the only requ= irement is to have a DODAG. In the SenSys'13 paper we use our own metri= c, which is opportunistic routing-oriented. It helps but isn't strictly= required (could possibly be the object of a separate draft)

Regarding performance: our testbed experiments ar= e on duty-cycled 802.15.4 nodes. We get great reliability. In the current i= mplementation of ORPL (posterior to the paper) we have most of the runs wit= h 100% delivery ratio (about 1500 packets sent and received end-to-end duri= ng the course of an hour). The reason is that ORPL is not affected at all b= y isolated link losses. It doesn't even notice it. If the link a parent= is dead for some time then another parent will forward the packet. The oth= er side benefits are latency and energy: when having duty cycled nodes, any= cast nicely uses the first that wakes up and gets the packet successfully, = making the wakeup procedure cheaper. A final note: opportunistic routing is= great especially in dense environments, as there are more links to exploit= . In sparser environments, as far as we have observed, the benefits reduce = but are still present.

The SenSys'13 paper contains a detailed design and = thorough experimental evaluation:

If you want to know even more, I'm open to ha= ving a phone call.

Best,
Simon
=



On Fri, Mar 7, 2014 at 4:28 PM, Pascal Thubert (pthubert) <pthubert@cisco= .com> wrote:
I'd love to hear more. This work reminds me of interesting Results= Quentin showed at his PhD...=A0

Pascal

Le 7 mars 2014 =E0 14:47, "Simon Duquennoy" <simonduq@sics.se> a =E9crit=A0:=

On Fri, Mar 7, 2014 at 1:37 PM, Michael Richards= on <mcr+ietf@san= delman.ca> wrote:

Simon Duquennoy <s= imonduq@sics.se> wrote:
=A0 =A0 > We have designed an opportunistic extension of RPL, where the = basic idea is to
=A0 =A0 > exploit all links of the DODAG rather than the tree defined by= links to
=A0 =A0 > preferred parents. We do this using anycast: transmissions are= intended either
=A0 =A0 > (upwards) to any parent or (downwards) to any child having the= destination
=A0 =A0 > below in the DODAG.

This is very interesting.

=A0 =A0 > We have a working prototype [1] in Contiki that we evaluated t= horoughly in a
=A0 =A0 > 135-node testbed [2]. In a 4-min packet interval data collecti= on, we increase
=A0 =A0 > the reliability of RPL from 97.4 to 99.5%, while halving the l= atency (below
=A0 =A0 > 0.5s) and radio duty cycle (below 0.5%).

=A0 =A0 > If there is interest, we can come up with a simplified version= of the design
=A0 =A0 > presented in the paper, and propose a way to integrate it in R= PL through only a
=A0 =A0 > few minor additions. To be more specific, the simplified versi= on would use the
=A0 =A0 > existing RPL routing tables rather than Bloom filters, and wou= ld be MAC-layer
=A0 =A0 > agnostic (the only assumption being that the MAC layer support= s
=A0 =A0 > anycast).

I'm not familliar with the concept of anycast at layer-2.
I think that ethernet supports this, but that actually one would have the multicast bit set. =A0I think that you'd have to do the same thing on 8= 02.11.
I guess that 15.4 has a specific support for this, or is just a choice of a=
particular unicast mac?

Dear Michael, all,

There is no specific support for anycast in 802.15.4, but the standard= MAC layers can easily be used for anycast (often by setting multicast/broa= dcast + ACK bits).
I've see prototypes for 802.15.4 beacon-enabled [1], for a 15.4e R= IT-like MAC [2], and for a CSL-like MAC (our own implementation uses Contik= iMAC, which is similar CSL).
Should also be possible with 15.4 TSCH or even 802.11 PSM.
Doing this on an always-on link like ethernet or traditional 802.11 is= more tricky because you need an agreement procedure so that only one neigh= bor that received the packet forwards it. There exist solutions for WiFi, s= uch as ExOR [3], which introduced opportunistic for 802.11 back in 2005. I don't think we want to go int= o this though; I'd rather simply stipulate that anycast is required at = the MAC layer and possibly give some hints on how to support it on the most= common MAC protocols.

Best,
Simon



--
Michael Richardson <mcr+IETF@sandelman.ca>, Sandelman Software Works
IETF ROLL WG co-chair. =A0 =A0http://datatracker.ietf.org/wg/roll/charter/<= /a>


_______________________________________________
Roll mailing list
Roll@ietf.org
ht= tps://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/roll


_______________________________________________
Roll mailing list
Roll@ietf.org<= /span>
https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/roll

_______________________________________________
Roll mailing list
Roll@ietf.org
ht= tps://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/roll




_______________________________________________
Roll mailing list
Roll@ietf.org
ht= tps://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/roll



_______________________________________________
Roll mailing list
Roll@ietf.org
ht= tps://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/roll


--001a1136b6669cb97704f41b4b7d-- From nobody Sat Mar 8 10:03:38 2014 Return-Path: X-Original-To: roll@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: roll@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2A94E1A024B for ; Sat, 8 Mar 2014 10:03:37 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -0.777 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-0.777 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, FM_FORGED_GMAIL=0.622, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, J_CHICKENPOX_56=0.6, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id fecR5-B2B0t4 for ; Sat, 8 Mar 2014 10:03:32 -0800 (PST) Received: from mail-ve0-x231.google.com (mail-ve0-x231.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:400c:c01::231]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1D4BF1A026F for ; Sat, 8 Mar 2014 10:03:31 -0800 (PST) Received: by mail-ve0-f177.google.com with SMTP id sa20so5412220veb.8 for ; Sat, 08 Mar 2014 10:03:27 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=googlemail.com; s=20120113; h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:date:message-id:subject:from:to :cc:content-type; bh=+AWnsv3sIyl4kztj7qq/nU52uAoWoikdoHxvBygGMOM=; b=cLC3w5bkxlib6gMkBSCUg/cE3wG6GCDcpAy9sby88AijLSXBC4tobZIJhC8xuvNQrR 08ulIqPySouID+hwtETMXXUMcld8mJrFaHj+26KdMZkPMYQ9dkGpo7VwBGXFAwi1yq+H SXBad8qnzTcElAJPopQ/WIuCJPZGgP05nSU09nAf/nxx4XgL3LguipBvVUKddvt1whsC p8/8UgHXnShzT0LOW8gtdmMrLpb/HWO/CiDstjsf0yzMdHKCp2NWzTTIfc0s0e/i2D18 L2nlZgRPnzgOQSxonDT1MjVFJIuZN9XJZMexF1UTCJ48n8PbpnxeeuUjUnqzj2y9sOix SOHQ== MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Received: by 10.58.69.111 with SMTP id d15mr15572970veu.3.1394301807137; Sat, 08 Mar 2014 10:03:27 -0800 (PST) Received: by 10.221.16.3 with HTTP; Sat, 8 Mar 2014 10:03:27 -0800 (PST) In-Reply-To: References: <19299.1394195834@sandelman.ca> <8B665F7F-8EA1-4150-924D-46F722BC5FC8@cisco.com> Date: Sat, 8 Mar 2014 15:03:27 -0300 Message-ID: From: Ines Robles To: Routing Over Low power and Lossy networks Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=e89a8ff1c246ec9ab104f41c2f6e Archived-At: http://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/roll/-QKO-nptKlg4QZPdkORtqFTMdj4 Cc: Quentin Lampin Subject: Re: [Roll] Interest in opportunistic routing? X-BeenThere: roll@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list Reply-To: Routing Over Low power and Lossy networks List-Id: Routing Over Low power and Lossy networks List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sat, 08 Mar 2014 18:03:37 -0000 --e89a8ff1c246ec9ab104f41c2f6e Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable *Hi Simon,Please see comments below,* 2014-03-08 13:59 GMT-03:00 Simon Duquennoy : > Do you mean you see ORPL fitting 6TiSCH? I was mostly targeting ROLL, as = I > see ORPL as a mac-independent addition to RPL. > *I'm still reading about it, so I don't have an answer for it so far, it is an interesting work to analyze.* > That being said, yes, thanks for the invite, I'll definitely consider > presenting it at the next plugfest (potentially along with a TSCH > implementation in Contiki that we hope to have by then). > > *I meant, that it would be good to present ORPL in plugfests about Constrained Networks in the IETFs.I dont know when it is going to be the next plugfest, but in case that it takes place, it would be nice consider it.Thanks,Ines.* > On Sat, Mar 8, 2014 at 5:20 PM, Ines Robles < > mariainesrobles@googlemail.com> wrote: > >> Hi Simon, >> >> Thank you very much for share ORPL with us. >> >> I think it would be good to present it in the plugfests in next IETFs, i= n >> case that it takes place. >> >> The plugfest for this last IETF [ >> http://www.ietf.org/proceedings/89/slides/slides-89-6tisch-0.pdf] >> starting in slide 65. >> >> Kind Regards, >> >> Ines. >> >> >> 2014-03-07 15:17 GMT-03:00 Simon Duquennoy : >> >>> As a complement: >>> * a visualization of ORPL during a 60-minute run: >>> http://simonduquennoy.net/resources/orpl-animation.html >>> * the slides of the SenSys'13 presentation: >>> http://simonduquennoy.net/resources/131111-oprl-sensys.pptx >>> >>> Thanks, >>> Simon >>> >>> >>> >>> On Fri, Mar 7, 2014 at 6:42 PM, Simon Duquennoy wrote= : >>> >>>> Dear Pascal, >>>> >>>> AFAICT it does go along the same lines as Quentin's work. The main >>>> difference is that we support addressable nodes, i.e. not only upwards= but >>>> also downwards routing. >>>> >>>> As you're asking for more, let me elaborate a bit on how I see our >>>> protocol (ORPL) integrated in RPL :) >>>> * routing decision (assuming storing mode): the forwarding decision is >>>> made at the receiver, not at the sender. Upon receiving a packet, a no= de >>>> decides whether to forward it based on (1) its rank and (2) the inclus= ion >>>> of the destination IPv6 address into its routing table. >>>> - If the packet is going up and the node has a lower rank then it >>>> will forward with upwards anycast. >>>> - If the packet is going up or down and the node has a higher rank, >>>> and the destination IPv6 address is in the routing table (i.e. the >>>> destination is below in the DODAG) then it will forward with downwards >>>> anycast. >>>> One interesting thing is any-to-any routing is that ORPL has many more >>>> common ancestors to use than RPL. In our experiments, any-to-any routi= ng is >>>> where the benefits of ORPL are most significant, with the latency betw= een >>>> leaf nodes improved with a factor up to 15 (case where RPL has a commo= n >>>> ancestor several hops away whereas ORPL exploits many ancestors closer= to >>>> the source and destination). >>>> * routing tables: the standard RPL tables will do. It is however worth >>>> noting that because anycast transmission do not target a specific rece= iver, >>>> all we need at every node is not a full routing table (>>> hop> pairs) but only a set of reachable destinations. This makes the t= able >>>> potentially more compact. In the paper we investigate fancy structures= for >>>> this such as Bloom filter but I regard this as out of the scope for a >>>> potential integration in standard RPL. >>>> * routing metric: ORPL can work with any routing metric, the only >>>> requirement is to have a DODAG. In the SenSys'13 paper we use our own >>>> metric, which is opportunistic routing-oriented. It helps but isn't >>>> strictly required (could possibly be the object of a separate draft) >>>> >>>> Regarding performance: our testbed experiments are on duty-cycled >>>> 802.15.4 nodes. We get great reliability. In the current implementatio= n of >>>> ORPL (posterior to the paper) we have most of the runs with 100% deliv= ery >>>> ratio (about 1500 packets sent and received end-to-end during the cour= se of >>>> an hour). The reason is that ORPL is not affected at all by isolated l= ink >>>> losses. It doesn't even notice it. If the link a parent is dead for so= me >>>> time then another parent will forward the packet. The other side benef= its >>>> are latency and energy: when having duty cycled nodes, anycast nicely = uses >>>> the first that wakes up and gets the packet successfully, making the w= akeup >>>> procedure cheaper. A final note: opportunistic routing is great especi= ally >>>> in dense environments, as there are more links to exploit. In sparser >>>> environments, as far as we have observed, the benefits reduce but are = still >>>> present. >>>> >>>> The SenSys'13 paper contains a detailed design and thorough >>>> experimental evaluation: >>>> http://www.simonduquennoy.net/papers/duquennoy13orpl.pdf >>>> >>>> If you want to know even more, I'm open to having a phone call. >>>> >>>> Best, >>>> Simon >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> On Fri, Mar 7, 2014 at 4:28 PM, Pascal Thubert (pthubert) < >>>> pthubert@cisco.com> wrote: >>>> >>>>> I'd love to hear more. This work reminds me of interesting Results >>>>> Quentin showed at his PhD... >>>>> >>>>> Pascal >>>>> >>>>> Le 7 mars 2014 =E0 14:47, "Simon Duquennoy" a =E9c= rit : >>>>> >>>>> On Fri, Mar 7, 2014 at 1:37 PM, Michael Richardson < >>>>> mcr+ietf@sandelman.ca> wrote: >>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> Simon Duquennoy wrote: >>>>>> > We have designed an opportunistic extension of RPL, where the >>>>>> basic idea is to >>>>>> > exploit all links of the DODAG rather than the tree defined by >>>>>> links to >>>>>> > preferred parents. We do this using anycast: transmissions are >>>>>> intended either >>>>>> > (upwards) to any parent or (downwards) to any child having the >>>>>> destination >>>>>> > below in the DODAG. >>>>>> >>>>>> This is very interesting. >>>>>> >>>>>> > We have a working prototype [1] in Contiki that we evaluated >>>>>> thoroughly in a >>>>>> > 135-node testbed [2]. In a 4-min packet interval data >>>>>> collection, we increase >>>>>> > the reliability of RPL from 97.4 to 99.5%, while halving the >>>>>> latency (below >>>>>> > 0.5s) and radio duty cycle (below 0.5%). >>>>>> >>>>>> > If there is interest, we can come up with a simplified version >>>>>> of the design >>>>>> > presented in the paper, and propose a way to integrate it in >>>>>> RPL through only a >>>>>> > few minor additions. To be more specific, the simplified >>>>>> version would use the >>>>>> > existing RPL routing tables rather than Bloom filters, and >>>>>> would be MAC-layer >>>>>> > agnostic (the only assumption being that the MAC layer support= s >>>>>> > anycast). >>>>>> >>>>>> I'm not familliar with the concept of anycast at layer-2. >>>>>> I think that ethernet supports this, but that actually one would hav= e >>>>>> the >>>>>> multicast bit set. I think that you'd have to do the same thing on >>>>>> 802.11. >>>>>> I guess that 15.4 has a specific support for this, or is just a >>>>>> choice of a >>>>>> particular unicast mac? >>>>>> >>>>> >>>>> Dear Michael, all, >>>>> >>>>> There is no specific support for anycast in 802.15.4, but the >>>>> standard MAC layers can easily be used for anycast (often by setting >>>>> multicast/broadcast + ACK bits). >>>>> I've see prototypes for 802.15.4 beacon-enabled [1], for a 15.4e >>>>> RIT-like MAC [2], and for a CSL-like MAC (our own implementation uses >>>>> ContikiMAC, which is similar CSL). >>>>> Should also be possible with 15.4 TSCH or even 802.11 PSM. >>>>> Doing this on an always-on link like ethernet or traditional 802.11 i= s >>>>> more tricky because you need an agreement procedure so that only one >>>>> neighbor that received the packet forwards it. There exist solutions = for >>>>> WiFi, such as ExOR [3], which introduced opportunistic for 802.11 bac= k in >>>>> 2005. I don't think we want to go into this though; I'd rather simply >>>>> stipulate that anycast is required at the MAC layer and possibly give= some >>>>> hints on how to support it on the most common MAC protocols. >>>>> >>>>> Best, >>>>> Simon >>>>> >>>>> [1] >>>>> http://clarinet.u-strasbg.fr/~theoleyre/uploads/Publis/pavkovic11rpl.= pdf >>>>> [2] http://www.ti5.tuhh.de/publications/2012/EWSN12_Orinoco.pdf >>>>> [3] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ExOR_(wireless_network_protocol) >>>>> >>>>> >>>>>> -- >>>>>> Michael Richardson , Sandelman Software Works >>>>>> IETF ROLL WG co-chair. >>>>>> http://datatracker.ietf.org/wg/roll/charter/ >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>> Roll mailing list >>>>>> Roll@ietf.org >>>>>> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/roll >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> Roll mailing list >>>>> Roll@ietf.org >>>>> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/roll >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> Roll mailing list >>>>> Roll@ietf.org >>>>> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/roll >>>>> >>>>> >>>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> Roll mailing list >>> Roll@ietf.org >>> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/roll >>> >>> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Roll mailing list >> Roll@ietf.org >> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/roll >> >> > > _______________________________________________ > Roll mailing list > Roll@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/roll > > --e89a8ff1c246ec9ab104f41c2f6e Content-Type: text/html; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

= Hi Simon,

=

Please see comments below,

=

2014-03-08 13= :59 GMT-03:00 Simon Duquennoy <simonduq@sics.se>:
Do you mean you see ORPL fitting 6Ti= SCH? I was mostly targeting ROLL, as I see ORPL as a mac-independent additi= on to RPL.
 

I'm still reading about it, so I don&rs= quo;t have an answer for it so far, it is an interesting work to analyze.

 
That bein= g said, yes, thanks for the invite, I'll definitely consider presenting= it at the next plugfest (potentially along with a TSCH implementation in C= ontiki that we hope to have by then).

I meant, that it would be good to pre= sent ORPL in  plugfests about Constrained Networks in the IETFs.

= I dont know when it is going to be th= e next plugfest, but in case that it takes place, it would be nice consider= it.


Thanks,


Ines.
 
<= div class=3D"gmail_extra">
On Sat, Mar 8, 2014 at 5:20 PM, Ines Robles <mariainesrobles@googlemail.com> wrote:
Hi Simon, 

=
Thank you very much for share ORPL with us.

I think it would be good to present it in the plugfests in next IETFs,= in case that it takes place.

The plugfest for this last IETF [ht= tp://www.ietf.org/proceedings/89/slides/slides-89-6tisch-0.pdf] startin= g in slide 65.

Kind Regards,

Ines.


2014-03-07 15:17 G= MT-03:00 Simon Duquennoy <simonduq@sics.se>:
As a complement:
* a visualizati= on of ORPL during a 60-minute run:
* the slides of the SenSys'13 presentation:

Thanks,
Simon



On Fri, Mar 7, 20= 14 at 6:42 PM, Simon Duquennoy <simonduq@sics.se> wrote:
Dear Pascal,

AFAICT it= does go along the same lines as Quentin's work. The main difference is= that we support addressable nodes, i.e. not only upwards but also downward= s routing.

As you're asking for more, let me elaborate a bit o= n how I see our protocol (ORPL) integrated in RPL :)
* routing de= cision (assuming storing mode): the forwarding decision is made at the rece= iver, not at the sender. Upon receiving a packet, a node decides whether to= forward it based on (1) its rank and (2) the inclusion of the destination = IPv6 address into its routing table.
  - If the packet is going up and the node has a lower rank then = it will forward with upwards anycast.
  - If the packet is g= oing up or down and the node has a higher rank, and the destination IPv6 ad= dress is in the routing table (i.e. the destination is below in the DODAG) = then it will forward with downwards anycast.
One interesting thing is any-to-any routing is that ORPL has many more= common ancestors to use than RPL. In our experiments, any-to-any routing i= s where the benefits of ORPL are most significant, with the latency between= leaf nodes improved with a factor up to 15 (case where RPL has a common an= cestor several hops away whereas ORPL exploits many ancestors closer to the= source and destination).
* routing tables: the standard RPL tables will do. It is however worth= noting that because anycast transmission do not target a specific receiver= , all we need at every node is not a full routing table (<destination,ne= xt hop> pairs) but only a set of reachable destinations. This makes the = table potentially more compact. In the paper we investigate fancy structure= s for this such as Bloom filter but I regard this as out of the scope for a= potential integration in standard RPL.
* routing metric: ORPL can work with any routing metric, the only requ= irement is to have a DODAG. In the SenSys'13 paper we use our own metri= c, which is opportunistic routing-oriented. It helps but isn't strictly= required (could possibly be the object of a separate draft)

Regarding performance: our testbed experiments ar= e on duty-cycled 802.15.4 nodes. We get great reliability. In the current i= mplementation of ORPL (posterior to the paper) we have most of the runs wit= h 100% delivery ratio (about 1500 packets sent and received end-to-end duri= ng the course of an hour). The reason is that ORPL is not affected at all b= y isolated link losses. It doesn't even notice it. If the link a parent= is dead for some time then another parent will forward the packet. The oth= er side benefits are latency and energy: when having duty cycled nodes, any= cast nicely uses the first that wakes up and gets the packet successfully, = making the wakeup procedure cheaper. A final note: opportunistic routing is= great especially in dense environments, as there are more links to exploit= . In sparser environments, as far as we have observed, the benefits reduce = but are still present.

The SenSys'13 paper contains a detailed design and = thorough experimental evaluation:

If you want to know even more, I'm open to ha= ving a phone call.

Best,
Simon
=



On Fri, Mar 7, 2014 at 4:28 PM, Pascal Thubert (pthubert) <pthubert@cisco= .com> wrote:
I'd love to hear more. This work reminds me of interesting Results= Quentin showed at his PhD... 

Pascal

Le 7 mars 2014 =E0 14:47, "Simon Duquennoy" <simonduq@sics.se> a =E9crit&nbs= p;:

On Fri, Mar 7, 2014 at 1:37 PM, Michael Richards= on <mcr+ietf@san= delman.ca> wrote:

Simon Duquennoy <s= imonduq@sics.se> wrote:
    > We have designed an opportunistic extension of RPL, wher= e the basic idea is to
    > exploit all links of the DODAG rather than the tree defi= ned by links to
    > preferred parents. We do this using anycast: transmissio= ns are intended either
    > (upwards) to any parent or (downwards) to any child havi= ng the destination
    > below in the DODAG.

This is very interesting.

    > We have a working prototype [1] in Contiki that we evalu= ated thoroughly in a
    > 135-node testbed [2]. In a 4-min packet interval data co= llection, we increase
    > the reliability of RPL from 97.4 to 99.5%, while halving= the latency (below
    > 0.5s) and radio duty cycle (below 0.5%).

    > If there is interest, we can come up with a simplified v= ersion of the design
    > presented in the paper, and propose a way to integrate i= t in RPL through only a
    > few minor additions. To be more specific, the simplified= version would use the
    > existing RPL routing tables rather than Bloom filters, a= nd would be MAC-layer
    > agnostic (the only assumption being that the MAC layer s= upports
    > anycast).

I'm not familliar with the concept of anycast at layer-2.
I think that ethernet supports this, but that actually one would have the multicast bit set.  I think that you'd have to do the same thing o= n 802.11.
I guess that 15.4 has a specific support for this, or is just a choice of a=
particular unicast mac?

Dear Michael, all,

There is no specific support for anycast in 802.15.4, but the standard= MAC layers can easily be used for anycast (often by setting multicast/broa= dcast + ACK bits).
I've see prototypes for 802.15.4 beacon-enabled [1], for a 15.4e R= IT-like MAC [2], and for a CSL-like MAC (our own implementation uses Contik= iMAC, which is similar CSL).
Should also be possible with 15.4 TSCH or even 802.11 PSM.
Doing this on an always-on link like ethernet or traditional 802.11 is= more tricky because you need an agreement procedure so that only one neigh= bor that received the packet forwards it. There exist solutions for WiFi, s= uch as ExOR [3], which introduced opportunistic for 802.11 back in 2005. I don't think we want to go int= o this though; I'd rather simply stipulate that anycast is required at = the MAC layer and possibly give some hints on how to support it on the most= common MAC protocols.

Best,
Simon



--
Michael Richardson <mcr+IETF@sandelman.ca>, Sandelman Software Works
IETF ROLL WG co-chair.    http://datatracker.ietf.org/wg/roll/cha= rter/


_______________________________________________
Roll mailing list
Roll@ietf.org
ht= tps://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/roll


_______________________________________________
Roll mailing list
Roll@ietf.org<= /span>
https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/roll

_______________________________________________
Roll mailing list
Roll@ietf.org
ht= tps://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/roll




_______________________________________________
Roll mailing list
Roll@ietf.org
ht= tps://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/roll



_______________________________________________
Roll mailing list
Roll@ietf.org
ht= tps://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/roll



_______________________________________________
Roll mailing list
Roll@ietf.org
ht= tps://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/roll


--e89a8ff1c246ec9ab104f41c2f6e-- From nobody Sat Mar 8 11:01:09 2014 Return-Path: X-Original-To: roll@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: roll@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9CE161A00BC for ; Sat, 8 Mar 2014 11:01:07 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.277 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.277 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, FM_FORGED_GMAIL=0.622, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id KQ1cppLk6SR2 for ; Sat, 8 Mar 2014 11:01:00 -0800 (PST) Received: from mail-vc0-x236.google.com (mail-vc0-x236.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:400c:c03::236]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 254351A0142 for ; Sat, 8 Mar 2014 11:01:00 -0800 (PST) Received: by mail-vc0-f182.google.com with SMTP id id10so5426350vcb.41 for ; Sat, 08 Mar 2014 11:00:55 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20120113; h=mime-version:sender:in-reply-to:references:date:message-id:subject :from:to:cc:content-type; bh=k5+d+iXJgW/0ApIQpoeIqKwn1zq+/pGJyJ2NlhHkh7s=; b=dDhZs5ukwW8vBM0+kII/9jjLisdwUbWepdafh46/z3MDx6KGg7OMDwUnp5OX4znlZR rq4TWBDzjHMS3FwOCucMs+wRxssL3yHLTD6HE2Viz+vyocKsm8rYn8hBeQUSEf2a91CM puF4uZmJpbLoHTIogCXG+w8fT/Hoy6nvxrtJVYdsmj0U0YI4TXQyh67pPzzgDTVP1GmT E++k7b1/q2dCRh98xIlB4oNTbVLMl9ovJDwczYxutVmvxpEvecZIH6stBF2Is16h9uhb ngRvNGWCn/w6mwxMs9mlVW8o6OfoEeSTh7nSbGaBAnfrIOZ73I/CAHF4jE12s6P69rvm 31cA== MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Received: by 10.221.37.1 with SMTP id tc1mr8643vcb.32.1394305255059; Sat, 08 Mar 2014 11:00:55 -0800 (PST) Sender: simon.duquennoy@gmail.com Received: by 10.220.150.209 with HTTP; Sat, 8 Mar 2014 11:00:54 -0800 (PST) In-Reply-To: References: <19299.1394195834@sandelman.ca> <8B665F7F-8EA1-4150-924D-46F722BC5FC8@cisco.com> Date: Sat, 8 Mar 2014 20:00:54 +0100 X-Google-Sender-Auth: tnm1PK9FWQSxxE_iq1j03sM09TE Message-ID: From: Simon Duquennoy To: Routing Over Low power and Lossy networks Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=001a11334c386fb67f04f41cfdf2 Archived-At: http://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/roll/T6uoHlLV6tU6Ihb5yYplLYpmKbY Cc: Quentin Lampin Subject: Re: [Roll] Interest in opportunistic routing? X-BeenThere: roll@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list Reply-To: Routing Over Low power and Lossy networks List-Id: Routing Over Low power and Lossy networks List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sat, 08 Mar 2014 19:01:07 -0000 --001a11334c386fb67f04f41cfdf2 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable On Sat, Mar 8, 2014 at 7:03 PM, Ines Robles wrote: > > *Hi Simon, Please see comments below,* > > 2014-03-08 13:59 GMT-03:00 Simon Duquennoy : > >> Do you mean you see ORPL fitting 6TiSCH? I was mostly targeting ROLL, as >> I see ORPL as a mac-independent addition to RPL. >> > > > *I'm still reading about it, so I don't have an answer for it so far, it > is an interesting work to analyze. * > > >> That being said, yes, thanks for the invite, I'll definitely consider >> presenting it at the next plugfest (potentially along with a TSCH >> implementation in Contiki that we hope to have by then). >> >> * I meant, that it would be good to present ORPL in plugfests about > Constrained Networks in the IETFs. I dont know when it is going to be the > next plugfest, but in case that it takes place, it would be nice consider > it.* > Understood. I agree. Thanks, Simon > > > * Thanks, Ines.* > > >> On Sat, Mar 8, 2014 at 5:20 PM, Ines Robles < >> mariainesrobles@googlemail.com> wrote: >> >>> Hi Simon, >>> >>> Thank you very much for share ORPL with us. >>> >>> I think it would be good to present it in the plugfests in next IETFs, >>> in case that it takes place. >>> >>> The plugfest for this last IETF [ >>> http://www.ietf.org/proceedings/89/slides/slides-89-6tisch-0.pdf] >>> starting in slide 65. >>> >>> Kind Regards, >>> >>> Ines. >>> >>> >>> 2014-03-07 15:17 GMT-03:00 Simon Duquennoy : >>> >>>> As a complement: >>>> * a visualization of ORPL during a 60-minute run: >>>> http://simonduquennoy.net/resources/orpl-animation.html >>>> * the slides of the SenSys'13 presentation: >>>> http://simonduquennoy.net/resources/131111-oprl-sensys.pptx >>>> >>>> Thanks, >>>> Simon >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> On Fri, Mar 7, 2014 at 6:42 PM, Simon Duquennoy wrot= e: >>>> >>>>> Dear Pascal, >>>>> >>>>> AFAICT it does go along the same lines as Quentin's work. The main >>>>> difference is that we support addressable nodes, i.e. not only upward= s but >>>>> also downwards routing. >>>>> >>>>> As you're asking for more, let me elaborate a bit on how I see our >>>>> protocol (ORPL) integrated in RPL :) >>>>> * routing decision (assuming storing mode): the forwarding decision i= s >>>>> made at the receiver, not at the sender. Upon receiving a packet, a n= ode >>>>> decides whether to forward it based on (1) its rank and (2) the inclu= sion >>>>> of the destination IPv6 address into its routing table. >>>>> - If the packet is going up and the node has a lower rank then it >>>>> will forward with upwards anycast. >>>>> - If the packet is going up or down and the node has a higher rank, >>>>> and the destination IPv6 address is in the routing table (i.e. the >>>>> destination is below in the DODAG) then it will forward with downward= s >>>>> anycast. >>>>> One interesting thing is any-to-any routing is that ORPL has many mor= e >>>>> common ancestors to use than RPL. In our experiments, any-to-any rout= ing is >>>>> where the benefits of ORPL are most significant, with the latency bet= ween >>>>> leaf nodes improved with a factor up to 15 (case where RPL has a comm= on >>>>> ancestor several hops away whereas ORPL exploits many ancestors close= r to >>>>> the source and destination). >>>>> * routing tables: the standard RPL tables will do. It is however wort= h >>>>> noting that because anycast transmission do not target a specific rec= eiver, >>>>> all we need at every node is not a full routing table (>>>> hop> pairs) but only a set of reachable destinations. This makes the = table >>>>> potentially more compact. In the paper we investigate fancy structure= s for >>>>> this such as Bloom filter but I regard this as out of the scope for a >>>>> potential integration in standard RPL. >>>>> * routing metric: ORPL can work with any routing metric, the only >>>>> requirement is to have a DODAG. In the SenSys'13 paper we use our own >>>>> metric, which is opportunistic routing-oriented. It helps but isn't >>>>> strictly required (could possibly be the object of a separate draft) >>>>> >>>>> Regarding performance: our testbed experiments are on duty-cycled >>>>> 802.15.4 nodes. We get great reliability. In the current implementati= on of >>>>> ORPL (posterior to the paper) we have most of the runs with 100% deli= very >>>>> ratio (about 1500 packets sent and received end-to-end during the cou= rse of >>>>> an hour). The reason is that ORPL is not affected at all by isolated = link >>>>> losses. It doesn't even notice it. If the link a parent is dead for s= ome >>>>> time then another parent will forward the packet. The other side bene= fits >>>>> are latency and energy: when having duty cycled nodes, anycast nicely= uses >>>>> the first that wakes up and gets the packet successfully, making the = wakeup >>>>> procedure cheaper. A final note: opportunistic routing is great espec= ially >>>>> in dense environments, as there are more links to exploit. In sparser >>>>> environments, as far as we have observed, the benefits reduce but are= still >>>>> present. >>>>> >>>>> The SenSys'13 paper contains a detailed design and thorough >>>>> experimental evaluation: >>>>> http://www.simonduquennoy.net/papers/duquennoy13orpl.pdf >>>>> >>>>> If you want to know even more, I'm open to having a phone call. >>>>> >>>>> Best, >>>>> Simon >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> On Fri, Mar 7, 2014 at 4:28 PM, Pascal Thubert (pthubert) < >>>>> pthubert@cisco.com> wrote: >>>>> >>>>>> I'd love to hear more. This work reminds me of interesting Results >>>>>> Quentin showed at his PhD... >>>>>> >>>>>> Pascal >>>>>> >>>>>> Le 7 mars 2014 =E0 14:47, "Simon Duquennoy" a >>>>>> =E9crit : >>>>>> >>>>>> On Fri, Mar 7, 2014 at 1:37 PM, Michael Richardson < >>>>>> mcr+ietf@sandelman.ca> wrote: >>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Simon Duquennoy wrote: >>>>>>> > We have designed an opportunistic extension of RPL, where the >>>>>>> basic idea is to >>>>>>> > exploit all links of the DODAG rather than the tree defined b= y >>>>>>> links to >>>>>>> > preferred parents. We do this using anycast: transmissions ar= e >>>>>>> intended either >>>>>>> > (upwards) to any parent or (downwards) to any child having th= e >>>>>>> destination >>>>>>> > below in the DODAG. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> This is very interesting. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> > We have a working prototype [1] in Contiki that we evaluated >>>>>>> thoroughly in a >>>>>>> > 135-node testbed [2]. In a 4-min packet interval data >>>>>>> collection, we increase >>>>>>> > the reliability of RPL from 97.4 to 99.5%, while halving the >>>>>>> latency (below >>>>>>> > 0.5s) and radio duty cycle (below 0.5%). >>>>>>> >>>>>>> > If there is interest, we can come up with a simplified versio= n >>>>>>> of the design >>>>>>> > presented in the paper, and propose a way to integrate it in >>>>>>> RPL through only a >>>>>>> > few minor additions. To be more specific, the simplified >>>>>>> version would use the >>>>>>> > existing RPL routing tables rather than Bloom filters, and >>>>>>> would be MAC-layer >>>>>>> > agnostic (the only assumption being that the MAC layer suppor= ts >>>>>>> > anycast). >>>>>>> >>>>>>> I'm not familliar with the concept of anycast at layer-2. >>>>>>> I think that ethernet supports this, but that actually one would >>>>>>> have the >>>>>>> multicast bit set. I think that you'd have to do the same thing on >>>>>>> 802.11. >>>>>>> I guess that 15.4 has a specific support for this, or is just a >>>>>>> choice of a >>>>>>> particular unicast mac? >>>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> Dear Michael, all, >>>>>> >>>>>> There is no specific support for anycast in 802.15.4, but the >>>>>> standard MAC layers can easily be used for anycast (often by setting >>>>>> multicast/broadcast + ACK bits). >>>>>> I've see prototypes for 802.15.4 beacon-enabled [1], for a 15.4e >>>>>> RIT-like MAC [2], and for a CSL-like MAC (our own implementation use= s >>>>>> ContikiMAC, which is similar CSL). >>>>>> Should also be possible with 15.4 TSCH or even 802.11 PSM. >>>>>> Doing this on an always-on link like ethernet or traditional 802.11 >>>>>> is more tricky because you need an agreement procedure so that only = one >>>>>> neighbor that received the packet forwards it. There exist solutions= for >>>>>> WiFi, such as ExOR [3], which introduced opportunistic for 802.11 ba= ck in >>>>>> 2005. I don't think we want to go into this though; I'd rather simpl= y >>>>>> stipulate that anycast is required at the MAC layer and possibly giv= e some >>>>>> hints on how to support it on the most common MAC protocols. >>>>>> >>>>>> Best, >>>>>> Simon >>>>>> >>>>>> [1] >>>>>> http://clarinet.u-strasbg.fr/~theoleyre/uploads/Publis/pavkovic11rpl= .pdf >>>>>> [2] http://www.ti5.tuhh.de/publications/2012/EWSN12_Orinoco.pdf >>>>>> [3] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ExOR_(wireless_network_protocol) >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>>> -- >>>>>>> Michael Richardson , Sandelman Software Work= s >>>>>>> IETF ROLL WG co-chair. >>>>>>> http://datatracker.ietf.org/wg/roll/charter/ >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>> Roll mailing list >>>>>>> Roll@ietf.org >>>>>>> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/roll >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>> Roll mailing list >>>>>> Roll@ietf.org >>>>>> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/roll >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>> Roll mailing list >>>>>> Roll@ietf.org >>>>>> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/roll >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>> >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> Roll mailing list >>>> Roll@ietf.org >>>> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/roll >>>> >>>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> Roll mailing list >>> Roll@ietf.org >>> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/roll >>> >>> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Roll mailing list >> Roll@ietf.org >> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/roll >> >> > > _______________________________________________ > Roll mailing list > Roll@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/roll > > --001a11334c386fb67f04f41cfdf2 Content-Type: text/html; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

= On Sat, Mar 8, 2014 at 7:03 PM, Ines Robles <mariainesroble= s@googlemail.com> wrote:

Hi Simon,

=

Please see comments below,


2014-03-08 13:59 GMT-03:00 Sim= on Duquennoy <simonduq@sics.se>:
Do you mean you see ORPL fitting 6Ti= SCH? I was mostly targeting ROLL, as I see ORPL as a mac-independent additi= on to RPL.
 

I'm still reading about it, so I don’t h= ave an answer for it so far, it is an interesting work to analyze.

 
That bein= g said, yes, thanks for the invite, I'll definitely consider presenting= it at the next plugfest (potentially along with a TSCH implementation in C= ontiki that we hope to have by then).

I meant, that it would be good to present ORPL in &nbs= p;plugfests about Constrained Networks in the IETFs.

= I dont know when it is going to be the next plugfest, = but in case that it takes place, it would be nice consider it.


Understood. I = agree.
Thanks,
Simon
 

Thanks,


Ines.
 
On Sat, Mar 8, 2014 at 5:20 PM, Ines Robles <mariainesrobles@googlemail.com> wrote:
Hi Simon, 

=
Thank you very much for share ORPL with us.

I think it would be good to present it in the plugfests in next IETFs,= in case that it takes place.

The plugfest for this last IETF [ht= tp://www.ietf.org/proceedings/89/slides/slides-89-6tisch-0.pdf] startin= g in slide 65.

Kind Regards,

Ines.


2014-03-07 15:17 G= MT-03:00 Simon Duquennoy <simonduq@sics.se>:
As a complement:
* a visualizati= on of ORPL during a 60-minute run:
* the slides of the SenSys'13 presentation:

Thanks,
Simon



On Fri, Mar 7, 20= 14 at 6:42 PM, Simon Duquennoy <simonduq@sics.se> wrote:
Dear Pascal,

AFAICT it= does go along the same lines as Quentin's work. The main difference is= that we support addressable nodes, i.e. not only upwards but also downward= s routing.

As you're asking for more, let me elaborate a bit o= n how I see our protocol (ORPL) integrated in RPL :)
* routing de= cision (assuming storing mode): the forwarding decision is made at the rece= iver, not at the sender. Upon receiving a packet, a node decides whether to= forward it based on (1) its rank and (2) the inclusion of the destination = IPv6 address into its routing table.
  - If the packet is going up and the node has a lower rank then = it will forward with upwards anycast.
  - If the packet is g= oing up or down and the node has a higher rank, and the destination IPv6 ad= dress is in the routing table (i.e. the destination is below in the DODAG) = then it will forward with downwards anycast.
One interesting thing is any-to-any routing is that ORPL has many more= common ancestors to use than RPL. In our experiments, any-to-any routing i= s where the benefits of ORPL are most significant, with the latency between= leaf nodes improved with a factor up to 15 (case where RPL has a common an= cestor several hops away whereas ORPL exploits many ancestors closer to the= source and destination).
* routing tables: the standard RPL tables will do. It is however worth= noting that because anycast transmission do not target a specific receiver= , all we need at every node is not a full routing table (<destination,ne= xt hop> pairs) but only a set of reachable destinations. This makes the = table potentially more compact. In the paper we investigate fancy structure= s for this such as Bloom filter but I regard this as out of the scope for a= potential integration in standard RPL.
* routing metric: ORPL can work with any routing metric, the only requ= irement is to have a DODAG. In the SenSys'13 paper we use our own metri= c, which is opportunistic routing-oriented. It helps but isn't strictly= required (could possibly be the object of a separate draft)

Regarding performance: our testbed experiments ar= e on duty-cycled 802.15.4 nodes. We get great reliability. In the current i= mplementation of ORPL (posterior to the paper) we have most of the runs wit= h 100% delivery ratio (about 1500 packets sent and received end-to-end duri= ng the course of an hour). The reason is that ORPL is not affected at all b= y isolated link losses. It doesn't even notice it. If the link a parent= is dead for some time then another parent will forward the packet. The oth= er side benefits are latency and energy: when having duty cycled nodes, any= cast nicely uses the first that wakes up and gets the packet successfully, = making the wakeup procedure cheaper. A final note: opportunistic routing is= great especially in dense environments, as there are more links to exploit= . In sparser environments, as far as we have observed, the benefits reduce = but are still present.

The SenSys'13 paper contains a detailed design and = thorough experimental evaluation:

If you want to know even more, I'm open to ha= ving a phone call.

Best,
Simon
=



On Fri, Mar 7, 2014 at 4:28 PM, Pascal Thubert (pthubert) <pthubert@cisco= .com> wrote:
I'd love to hear more. This work reminds me of interesting Results= Quentin showed at his PhD... 

Pascal

Le 7 mars 2014 =E0 14:47, "Simon Duquennoy" <simonduq@sics.se> a =E9crit&nbs= p;:

On Fri, Mar 7, 2014 at 1:37 PM, Michael Richards= on <mcr+ietf@san= delman.ca> wrote:

Simon Duquennoy <s= imonduq@sics.se> wrote:
    > We have designed an opportunistic extension of RPL, wher= e the basic idea is to
    > exploit all links of the DODAG rather than the tree defi= ned by links to
    > preferred parents. We do this using anycast: transmissio= ns are intended either
    > (upwards) to any parent or (downwards) to any child havi= ng the destination
    > below in the DODAG.

This is very interesting.

    > We have a working prototype [1] in Contiki that we evalu= ated thoroughly in a
    > 135-node testbed [2]. In a 4-min packet interval data co= llection, we increase
    > the reliability of RPL from 97.4 to 99.5%, while halving= the latency (below
    > 0.5s) and radio duty cycle (below 0.5%).

    > If there is interest, we can come up with a simplified v= ersion of the design
    > presented in the paper, and propose a way to integrate i= t in RPL through only a
    > few minor additions. To be more specific, the simplified= version would use the
    > existing RPL routing tables rather than Bloom filters, a= nd would be MAC-layer
    > agnostic (the only assumption being that the MAC layer s= upports
    > anycast).

I'm not familliar with the concept of anycast at layer-2.
I think that ethernet supports this, but that actually one would have the multicast bit set.  I think that you'd have to do the same thing o= n 802.11.
I guess that 15.4 has a specific support for this, or is just a choice of a=
particular unicast mac?

Dear Michael, all,

There is no specific support for anycast in 802.15.4, but the standard= MAC layers can easily be used for anycast (often by setting multicast/broa= dcast + ACK bits).
I've see prototypes for 802.15.4 beacon-enabled [1], for a 15.4e R= IT-like MAC [2], and for a CSL-like MAC (our own implementation uses Contik= iMAC, which is similar CSL).
Should also be possible with 15.4 TSCH or even 802.11 PSM.
Doing this on an always-on link like ethernet or traditional 802.11 is= more tricky because you need an agreement procedure so that only one neigh= bor that received the packet forwards it. There exist solutions for WiFi, s= uch as ExOR [3], which introduced opportunistic for 802.11 back in 2005. I don't think we want to go int= o this though; I'd rather simply stipulate that anycast is required at = the MAC layer and possibly give some hints on how to support it on the most= common MAC protocols.

Best,
Simon



--
Michael Richardson <mcr+IETF@sandelman.ca>, Sandelman Software Works
IETF ROLL WG co-chair.    http://datatracker.ietf.org/wg/roll/cha= rter/


_______________________________________________
Roll mailing list
Roll@ietf.org
ht= tps://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/roll


_______________________________________________
Roll mailing list
Roll@ietf.org<= /span>
https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/roll

_______________________________________________
Roll mailing list
Roll@ietf.org
ht= tps://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/roll




_______________________________________________
Roll mailing list
Roll@ietf.org
ht= tps://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/roll



_______________________________________________
Roll mailing list
Roll@ietf.org
ht= tps://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/roll



_______________________________________________
Roll mailing list
Roll@ietf.org
ht= tps://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/roll



_______________________________________________
Roll mailing list
Roll@ietf.org
ht= tps://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/roll


--001a11334c386fb67f04f41cfdf2-- From nobody Sun Mar 9 18:34:48 2014 Return-Path: X-Original-To: roll@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: roll@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 549AA1A0383 for ; Sun, 9 Mar 2014 18:34:46 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -102.447 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-102.447 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RP_MATCHES_RCVD=-0.547, SPF_PASS=-0.001, USER_IN_WHITELIST=-100] autolearn=ham Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id lQEdBwk6cw_a for ; Sun, 9 Mar 2014 18:34:43 -0700 (PDT) Received: from smtpeg.etri.re.kr (smtpeg1.etri.re.kr [129.254.27.141]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 78B161A0380 for ; Sun, 9 Mar 2014 18:34:42 -0700 (PDT) Received: from SMTP1.etri.info (129.254.28.71) by SMTPEG1.etri.info (129.254.27.141) with Microsoft SMTP Server (TLS) id 14.1.355.2; Mon, 10 Mar 2014 10:34:30 +0900 Received: from SMTP4.etri.info ([169.254.3.218]) by SMTP1.etri.info ([10.2.6.30]) with mapi id 14.01.0355.002; Mon, 10 Mar 2014 10:34:33 +0900 From: Jongsoo Jeong To: "roll@ietf.org" , "simonduq@sics.se" Thread-Topic: Interest in opportunistic routing? (Simon Duquennoy) Thread-Index: AQHPPADjMxLZ6pCbe0qXKkp+VWK2bA== Date: Mon, 10 Mar 2014 01:34:33 +0000 Message-ID: <418785DF5D27CC4691A3233203CFC4A92BC1E62C@SMTP4.etri.info> Accept-Language: ko-KR, en-US Content-Language: ko-KR X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-new-displayname: Sm9uZ3NvbyBKZW9uZw== x-originating-ip: [129.254.28.41] Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="_000_418785DF5D27CC4691A3233203CFC4A92BC1E62CSMTP4etriinfo_" MIME-Version: 1.0 Archived-At: http://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/roll/dZC1U6pKKIrVSLvh1BLiFhnn_WU Subject: Re: [Roll] Interest in opportunistic routing? (Simon Duquennoy) X-BeenThere: roll@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list Reply-To: Routing Over Low power and Lossy networks List-Id: Routing Over Low power and Lossy networks List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 10 Mar 2014 01:34:46 -0000 --_000_418785DF5D27CC4691A3233203CFC4A92BC1E62CSMTP4etriinfo_ Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 SGksIFNpbW9uLg0KDQpJJ20gaW50ZXJlc3RlZCBpbiB5b3VyIHdvcmsuDQpBbmQgSSBoYXZlIGEg cXVlc3Rpb24gYWJvdXQgaGFuZGxpbmcgZHVwbGljYXRlIHBhY2tldHMuDQoNCkluIHlvdXIgU2Vu U3lzIHBhcGVyLCBJIHNhdyAnVGhlIGR1dHktY3ljbGVkIGFueWNhc3QgdXNlZCBieSBPUlBMIHNv bWV0aW1lcyByZXN1bHRzIGluIG11bHRpcGxlIG5vZGVzIGZvcndhcmRpbmcgdGhlIHNhbWUgcGFj a2V0LCBhbmQgZ2VuZXJhdGluZyBkdXBsaWNhdGVzLiBXZSBmaWx0ZXIgb3V0IGR1cGxpY2F0ZXMg YXQgdGhlIHJvdXRpbmcgbGF5ZXIgdG8gcmVkdWNlIHVubmVjZXNzYXJ5IGZvcndhcmRpbmcuJy4N Ckkgd29uZGVyIGhvdyB0aGUgcm91dGluZyBsYXllciBmaWx0ZXJzIG91dCB0aGUgZHVwbGljYXRl 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h=mime-version:sender:in-reply-to:references:date:message-id:subject :from:to:cc:content-type; bh=0k8Es9yINuPQOko7ZQ1HDvOe1v+6aId/kGzgbl79dBk=; b=MJWfn05Ena2CXU/fyoNIFuZFZ+ZbUDiHeoImAg5RnaZILEL0YW/DWNozmW/5jY2tvu hZgtkV646GuMXbgqefrjVubjFnjYLXEdeMOLitrI4zvtxKS1GYRzzFhxcG2I6mnpwM9u oJCEVN9Rgcv7zMivTSE4XbWwO49WlTXpheQ+mM7T5+KtsWsbCOUSMZmt+CiZGOMo0viP bd2yNH1w/P4dLf99iMZqWhtiJIRanbUkdRqhFG6pjJ5sEAyII4NkTpiA/QIk5KFybndX HOyZsIAc1GltkxkvmMJo6Ufklun0QF0Mz5tDo6nDHxQA8NAeNhaQjN5Z8rWhZcMFIxds QXQg== MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Received: by 10.221.66.73 with SMTP id xp9mr162693vcb.27.1394442972134; Mon, 10 Mar 2014 02:16:12 -0700 (PDT) Sender: simon.duquennoy@gmail.com Received: by 10.220.150.209 with HTTP; Mon, 10 Mar 2014 02:16:12 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: <418785DF5D27CC4691A3233203CFC4A92BC1E62C@SMTP4.etri.info> References: <418785DF5D27CC4691A3233203CFC4A92BC1E62C@SMTP4.etri.info> Date: Mon, 10 Mar 2014 10:16:12 +0100 X-Google-Sender-Auth: eUoF7xhOFMOpPVaI8fldrJr24t0 Message-ID: From: Simon Duquennoy To: Jongsoo Jeong Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=001a113642e603801f04f43d0e33 Archived-At: http://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/roll/9ocGIkjIf4z_EQgS459X3ItZI4E Cc: "roll@ietf.org" Subject: Re: [Roll] Interest in opportunistic routing? (Simon Duquennoy) X-BeenThere: roll@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list Reply-To: Routing Over Low power and Lossy networks List-Id: Routing Over Low power and Lossy networks List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 10 Mar 2014 09:16:22 -0000 --001a113642e603801f04f43d0e33 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Dear Jongsoo, We do not guarantee end-to-end duplicate avoidance, all we do is filter duplicates out at the routing layer in a best effort fashion. Fig 6d shows the portion of duplicate in the overall traffic, and with ORPL properly configured, we are in the 10%-range. Duplicates incur some energy waste, but this is outweighed by the benefits of opportunistic routing, i.e. even in the presence of duplicates ORPL reduces energy consumption (Fig 6c). Avoiding duplicates totally would require an agreement procedure integrated with MAC anycast, but this also means increased complexity and probably increased baseline energy consumption for every transmission. Best, Simon On Mon, Mar 10, 2014 at 2:34 AM, Jongsoo Jeong wrote: > Hi, Simon. > > I'm interested in your work. > And I have a question about handling duplicate packets. > > In your SenSys paper, I saw 'The duty-cycled anycast used by ORPL > sometimes results in multiple nodes forwarding the same packet, and > generating duplicates. We filter out duplicates at the routing layer to > reduce unnecessary forwarding.'. > I wonder how the routing layer filters out the duplicates, and it can > guarantee no duplicates at the final destination. > > Thanks. > -Jongsoo > ------------------------------ > *From : *"roll-request@ietf.org" > *Sent : *2014-03-08 00:27:09 ( +09:00 ) > *To : *roll@ietf.org > *Cc : * > *Subject : *Roll Digest, Vol 74, Issue 5 > > Send Roll mailing list submissions to > roll@ietf.org > > To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/roll > or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to > roll-request@ietf.org > > You can reach the person managing the list at > roll-owner@ietf.org > > When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific > than "Re: Contents of Roll digest..." > > > Today's Topics: > > 1. Interest in opportunistic routing? (Simon Duquennoy) > 2. Re: Interest in opportunistic routing? (Michael Richardson) > 3. Re: Interest in opportunistic routing? (Simon Duquennoy) > 4. Re: Interest in opportunistic routing? (Pascal Thubert (pthubert)) > > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > > Message: 1 > Date: Fri, 7 Mar 2014 10:54:37 +0100 > From: Simon Duquennoy > To: roll@ietf.org > Subject: [Roll] Interest in opportunistic routing? > Message-ID: > > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" > > Dear all, > > We have designed an opportunistic extension of RPL, where the basic idea is > to exploit all links of the DODAG rather than the tree defined by links to > preferred parents. We do this using anycast: transmissions are intended > either (upwards) to any parent or (downwards) to any child having the > destination below in the DODAG. > > The intuition why this is a good idea is that you don't even need to find > out which link is best for you, but rather use available links whenever > they are usable (increases robustness). Furthermore, in radio duty cycled > environment, anycast is also notoriously more energy-efficient and > low-latency than unicast. > > We have a working prototype [1] in Contiki that we evaluated thoroughly in > a 135-node testbed [2]. In a 4-min packet interval data collection, we > increase the reliability of RPL from 97.4 to 99.5%, while halving the > latency (below 0.5s) and radio duty cycle (below 0.5%). > > If there is interest, we can come up with a simplified version of the > design presented in the paper, and propose a way to integrate it in RPL > through only a few minor additions. To be more specific, the simplified > version would use the existing RPL routing tables rather than Bloom > filters, and would be MAC-layer agnostic (the only assumption being that > the MAC layer supports anycast). > > Best regards, > Simon Duquennoy > > [1] https://github.com/simonduq/orpl > [2] www.simonduquennoy.net/papers/duquennoy13orpl.pdf > -------------- next part -------------- > An HTML attachment was scrubbed... > URL: > > ------------------------------ > ... > ------------------------------ > > End of Roll Digest, Vol 74, Issue 5 > *********************************** > --001a113642e603801f04f43d0e33 Content-Type: text/html; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Dear Jongsoo,

We do not guarantee end-t= o-end duplicate avoidance, all we do is filter duplicates out at the routin= g layer in a best effort fashion. Fig 6d shows the portion of duplicate in = the overall traffic, and with ORPL properly configured, we are in the 10%-r= ange. Duplicates incur some energy waste, but this is outweighed by the ben= efits of opportunistic routing, i.e. even in the presence of duplicates ORP= L reduces energy consumption (Fig 6c).

Avoiding duplicates totally would require an agreement = procedure integrated with MAC anycast, but this also means increased comple= xity and probably increased baseline energy consumption for every transmiss= ion.

Best,
Simon



On Mon, Mar 10, 2014= at 2:34 AM, Jongsoo Jeong <jsjeong@etri.re.kr> wrote:
Hi, Simon.

I'm interested in your work.
And I have a question about handling duplic= ate packets.
=A0
In your SenSys paper, I saw 'The duty-c= ycled anycast used by ORPL sometimes results in multiple nodes forwarding t= he same packet, and generating duplicates. We filter out duplicates at the = routing layer to reduce unnecessary forwarding.'.
I wonder how the routing layer filters out = the duplicates, and it can guarantee no duplicates at the final destination= .
=A0
Thanks.
-Jongsoo
From : "roll-request@ietf.org" <roll-request@ietf.o= rg>
Sent : 2014-03-08 00:27:09 ( +09:00 )
To : roll@ietf.or= g <roll@ietf.org<= /a>>
Cc :
Subject : Roll Digest, Vol 74, Issue 5

Send Roll mailing list submissions to
roll@ietf.org

To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit
ht= tps://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/roll
or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to
roll-request@iet= f.org

You can reach the person managing the list at
roll-owner@ietf.or= g

When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific
than "Re: Contents of Roll digest..."


Today's Topics:

1. Interest in opportunistic routing? (Simon Duquennoy)
2. Re: Interest in opportunistic routing? (Michael Richardson)
3. Re: Interest in opportunistic routing? (Simon Duquennoy)
4. Re: Interest in opportunistic routing? (Pascal Thubert (pthubert))


----------------------------------------------------------------------

Message: 1
Date: Fri, 7 Mar 2014 10:54:37 +0100
From: Simon Duquennoy
To: roll@ietf.org Subject: [Roll] Interest in opportunistic routing?
Message-ID:

Content-Type: text/plain; charset=3D"iso-8859-1"

Dear all,

We have designed an opportunistic extension of RPL, where the basic idea is=
to exploit all links of the DODAG rather than the tree defined by links to<= br> preferred parents. We do this using anycast: transmissions are intended
either (upwards) to any parent or (downwards) to any child having the
destination below in the DODAG.

The intuition why this is a good idea is that you don't even need to fi= nd
out which link is best for you, but rather use available links whenever
they are usable (increases robustness). Furthermore, in radio duty cycled environment, anycast is also notoriously more energy-efficient and
low-latency than unicast.

We have a working prototype [1] in Contiki that we evaluated thoroughly in<= br> a 135-node testbed [2]. In a 4-min packet interval data collection, we
increase the reliability of RPL from 97.4 to 99.5%, while halving the
latency (below 0.5s) and radio duty cycle (below 0.5%).

If there is interest, we can come up with a simplified version of the
design presented in the paper, and propose a way to integrate it in RPL
through only a few minor additions. To be more specific, the simplified
version would use the existing RPL routing tables rather than Bloom
filters, and would be MAC-layer agnostic (the only assumption being that the MAC layer supports anycast).

Best regards,
Simon Duquennoy

[1] https://= github.com/simonduq/orpl
[2] www.simonduquennoy.net/papers/duquennoy13orpl.pdf
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL:

------------------------------
...
-= -----------------------------

End of Roll Digest, Vol 74, Issue 5
***********************************

--001a113642e603801f04f43d0e33-- From nobody Mon Mar 10 07:12:27 2014 Return-Path: X-Original-To: roll@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: roll@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id F01DC1A0479 for ; Mon, 10 Mar 2014 07:12:23 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.902 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.902 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, SPF_HELO_PASS=-0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id MX3Fs_1ltCuH for ; Mon, 10 Mar 2014 07:12:18 -0700 (PDT) Received: from na01-bn1-obe.outbound.protection.outlook.com (mail-bn1blp0183.outbound.protection.outlook.com [207.46.163.183]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 799E31A0473 for ; Mon, 10 Mar 2014 07:12:18 -0700 (PDT) Received: from CO1PR04MB553.namprd04.prod.outlook.com (10.141.73.12) by BLUPR04MB071.namprd04.prod.outlook.com (10.255.213.151) with Microsoft SMTP Server (TLS) id 15.0.893.10; 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DIR:OUT; SFP:1102; SCL:1; SRVR:BLUPR04MB071; H:CO1PR04MB553.namprd04.prod.outlook.com; CLIP:68.41.67.117; FPR:CA64251.8F0697CA.49D5339B.C4E2DD48.20254; MLV:sfv; PTR:InfoNoRecords; MX:1; A:1; LANG:en; received-spf: None (: itron.com does not designate permitted sender hosts) Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-OriginatorOrg: itron.com Archived-At: http://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/roll/Ro3qLzrNFqMDZPLQ6vOeOttV4ZY Subject: Re: [Roll] MPL multicast scope X-BeenThere: roll@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list Reply-To: Routing Over Low power and Lossy networks List-Id: Routing Over Low power and Lossy networks List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 10 Mar 2014 14:12:24 -0000 UGV0ZXIsDQoNCkkgYmVsaWV2ZSB0aGlzIGRvZXMgY292ZXIgZXhhY3RseSB3aGF0IHdlIGRpc2N1 c3NlZC4NCg0KVGhhbmtzIGZvciBkb2N1bWVudGluZyB0aGlzIQ0KDQpNYXR0DQoNCg0KDQoNCk1h dHRoZXcgR2lsbG1vcmUNClN0cmF0ZWdpYyBTdGFuZGFyZHMgQXJjaGl0ZWN0LCBPZmZpY2Ugb2Yg dGhlIENUTw0KTW9iaWxlOiArMS41MTcuNzQ1LjczNTANCktub3dsZWRnZSB0byBTaGFwZSBZb3Vy IEZ1dHVyZQ0KwqAgwqAgwqAgDQoNCg0KLS0tLS1PcmlnaW5hbCBNZXNzYWdlLS0tLS0NCkZyb206 IFJvbGwgW21haWx0bzpyb2xsLWJvdW5jZXNAaWV0Zi5vcmddIE9uIEJlaGFsZiBPZiBwZXRlciB2 YW4gZGVyIFN0b2sNClNlbnQ6IFRodXJzZGF5LCBNYXJjaCAwNiwgMjAxNCAxMjoyMyBQTQ0KVG86 IHJvbGxAaWV0Zi5vcmcNClN1YmplY3Q6IFtSb2xsXSBNUEwgbXVsdGljYXN0IHNjb3BlDQoNClNv bWUgdGltZSBhZ28gdGhlcmUgd2FzIGEgZGlzY3Vzc2lvbiBhYm91dCB0aGUgc2NvcGUgb2YgTVBM IHVzaW5nIG11bHRpY2FzdCBhZGRyZXNzZXMgd2l0aCByZWFsbS1sb2NhbCBzY29wZSAoMykuIEl0 IGlzIGFncmVlZCB0aGF0IG11bHRpY2FzdCBzY29wZSBjb3ZlcnMgYSB3aG9sZSBtZXNoIG5ldHdv cmsgc3VjaCBhcyBmb3IgZXhhbXBsZSBhIGxvd3BhbiBvbiBJRUVFIDgwMi4xNS40Lg0KVGhlIHdp c2ggZXhpc3RzIHRoYXQgYW4gTVBMIG11bHRpY2FzdCB3aXRoIGEgYWRtaW4tbG9jYWwgc2NvcGUg KDQpIGNhbiBwYXNzIHRocm91Z2ggcm91dGVycyBhbmQgZW5jb21wYXNzIGZvciBleGFtcGxlIG11 bHRpcGxlIG1lc2hlcy4NCg0KSXQgaXMgbm90IHNwZWNpZmllZCB1bmRlciB3aGljaCBjb25kaXRp b25zIHN1Y2ggYSBtdWx0aWNhc3QgaXMgcGFzc2VkIHRocm91Z2ggYSByb3V0ZXIuDQoNCkF0dGFj aGVkIG15IGRyYWZ0LCBkcmFmdC12YW5kZXJzdG9rLXJvbGwtYWRtaW4tbG9jYWwtcG9saWN5LTAw LCB0aGF0IHNwZWNpZmllcyB0aGlzIGJlaGF2aW9yLg0KDQpJIGFtIGxvb2tpbmcgZm9yd2FyZCB0 byByZWFjdGlvbnMgZnJvbSB0aGUgd2cgdG8gc2VlIHdoZXRoZXIgdGhpcyBpcyB0aGUgcmlnaHQg ZGlyZWN0aW9uLg0KDQpNYW55IHRoYW5rcywNCg0KcGV0ZXINCg0KLS0NClBldGVyIHZhbiBkZXIg U3Rvaw0KbWFpbHRvOiBjb25zdWx0YW5jeUB2YW5kZXJzdG9rLm9yZw0Kd3d3OiB3d3cudmFuZGVy c3Rvay5vcmcNCnRlbCBOTDogKzMxKDApNDkyNDc0NjczICAgICBGOiArMzMoMCk5NjYwMTUyNDgN Cg== From nobody Mon Mar 10 07:16:43 2014 Return-Path: X-Original-To: roll@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: roll@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id D17B81A044C for ; 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Mon, 10 Mar 2014 14:16:27 +0000 From: "Gillmore, Matthew" To: Routing Over Low power and Lossy networks Thread-Topic: [Roll] Interest in opportunistic routing? Thread-Index: AQHPOeuFCzX9weiKlkmhJUrVClYkHprVkBgAgAATdYCABL58MA== Date: Mon, 10 Mar 2014 14:16:26 +0000 Message-ID: References: <19299.1394195834@sandelman.ca> In-Reply-To: Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: yes X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-originating-ip: [68.41.67.117] x-forefront-prvs: 014617085B x-forefront-antispam-report: =?us-ascii?Q?SFV:NSPM; SFS:(10019001)(428001)(24454002)(189002)(199002)(50?= =?us-ascii?Q?944004)(243025003)(377454003)(85306002)(81342001)(1930040500?= =?us-ascii?Q?4)(59766001)(77982001)(74502001)(19609705001)(94316002)(6369?= =?us-ascii?Q?6002)(51856001)(46102001)(15395725003)(95666003)(16236675002?= =?us-ascii?Q?)(93516002)(92566001)(74366001)(54316002)(56776001)(95416001?= =?us-ascii?Q?)(90146001)(4396001)(93136001)(2656002)(19618635001)(1597544?= =?us-ascii?Q?5006)(18206015023)(47976001)(76482001)(87936001)(19618595001?= =?us-ascii?Q?)(86362001)(47446002)(19617315010)(31966008)(74316001)(97186?= =?us-ascii?Q?001)(47736001)(74662001)(49866001)(56816005)(87266001)(53806?= =?us-ascii?Q?001)(81542001)(94946001)(54356001)(50986001)(77096001)(74706?= =?us-ascii?Q?001)(76796001)(69226001)(19580395003)(83322001)(66066001)(80?= =?us-ascii?Q?022001)(65816001)(19580405001)(97336001)(76786001)(33646001)?= =?us-ascii?Q?(17760045001)(15202345003)(79102001)(81686001)(81816001)(858?= =?us-ascii?Q?52003)(83072002)(74876001)(80976001)(24736002)(562404015);DI?= =?us-ascii?Q?R:OUT;SFP:1102;SCL:1;SRVR:BLUPR04MB071;H:CO1PR04MB553.namprd?= =?us-ascii?Q?04.prod.outlook.com;CLIP:68.41.67.117;FPR:AC07C15E.9BFAD3E6.?= =?us-ascii?Q?AAD5B567.4EF4BC71.20508;MLV:sfv;PTR:InfoNoRecords;MX:1;A:1;L?= =?us-ascii?Q?ANG:en;?= received-spf: None (: itron.com does not designate permitted sender hosts) Content-Type: multipart/related; boundary="_008_e5daccc8a5d4490e8cf21cd48ad4bc73CO1PR04MB553namprd04pro_"; type="multipart/alternative" MIME-Version: 1.0 X-OriginatorOrg: itron.com Archived-At: http://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/roll/dtgXltlQEKxgUDJPEteyzkDibts Subject: Re: [Roll] Interest in opportunistic routing? X-BeenThere: roll@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list Reply-To: Routing Over Low power and Lossy networks List-Id: Routing Over Low power and Lossy networks List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 10 Mar 2014 14:16:40 -0000 --_008_e5daccc8a5d4490e8cf21cd48ad4bc73CO1PR04MB553namprd04pro_ Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="_000_e5daccc8a5d4490e8cf21cd48ad4bc73CO1PR04MB553namprd04pro_" --_000_e5daccc8a5d4490e8cf21cd48ad4bc73CO1PR04MB553namprd04pro_ Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Simon, In 802.15.4, setting the AR bit for acknowledgements on a broadcast is not= a good idea because the network would be flooded with ACKS. Matt [Description: http://marketing.itron.com/campaign/ribbon_logo_rgb_81h.jpg]<= https://www.itron.com/> Matthew Gillmore Strategic Standards Architect, Office of the CTO Mobile: +1.517.745.7350 Knowledge to Shape Your Future [Description: http://marketing.itron.com/campaign/social_media_icon_twitter= 29.jpg] [Description: http://marketing.itron.= com/campaign/social_media_icon_facebook29.jpg] [Description: http://marketing.itron.com/campaign/social_media_ico= n_linkedin29.jpg] [Desc= ription: http://marketing.itron.com/campaign/social_media_icon_youtube29.jp= g] From: Roll [mailto:roll-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of Simon Duquennoy Sent: Friday, March 07, 2014 8:47 AM To: Routing Over Low power and Lossy networks Subject: Re: [Roll] Interest in opportunistic routing? On Fri, Mar 7, 2014 at 1:37 PM, Michael Richardson > wrote: Simon Duquennoy > wrote: > We have designed an opportunistic extension of RPL, where the basic i= dea is to > exploit all links of the DODAG rather than the tree defined by links = to > preferred parents. We do this using anycast: transmissions are intend= ed either > (upwards) to any parent or (downwards) to any child having the destin= ation > below in the DODAG. This is very interesting. > We have a working prototype [1] in Contiki that we evaluated thorough= ly in a > 135-node testbed [2]. In a 4-min packet interval data collection, we = increase > the reliability of RPL from 97.4 to 99.5%, while halving the latency = (below > 0.5s) and radio duty cycle (below 0.5%). > If there is interest, we can come up with a simplified version of the= design > presented in the paper, and propose a way to integrate it in RPL thro= ugh only a > few minor additions. To be more specific, the simplified version woul= d use the > existing RPL routing tables rather than Bloom filters, and would be M= AC-layer > agnostic (the only assumption being that the MAC layer supports > anycast). I'm not familliar with the concept of anycast at layer-2. I think that ethernet supports this, but that actually one would have the multicast bit set. I think that you'd have to do the same thing on 802.11. I guess that 15.4 has a specific support for this, or is just a choice of a particular unicast mac? Dear Michael, all, There is no specific support for anycast in 802.15.4, but the standard MAC = layers can easily be used for anycast (often by setting multicast/broadcast= + ACK bits). I've see prototypes for 802.15.4 beacon-enabled [1], for a 15.4e RIT-like M= AC [2], and for a CSL-like MAC (our own implementation uses ContikiMAC, whi= ch is similar CSL). Should also be possible with 15.4 TSCH or even 802.11 PSM. Doing this on an always-on link like ethernet or traditional 802.11 is more= tricky because you need an agreement procedure so that only one neighbor t= hat received the packet forwards it. There exist solutions for WiFi, such a= s ExOR [3], which introduced opportunistic for 802.11 back in 2005. I don't= think we want to go into this though; I'd rather simply stipulate that any= cast is required at the MAC layer and possibly give some hints on how to su= pport it on the most common MAC protocols. Best, Simon [1] http://clarinet.u-strasbg.fr/~theoleyre/uploads/Publis/pavkovic11rpl.pd= f [2] http://www.ti5.tuhh.de/publications/2012/EWSN12_Orinoco.pdf [3] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ExOR_(wireless_network_protocol) -- Michael Richardson >,= Sandelman Software Works IETF ROLL WG co-chair. http://datatracker.ietf.org/wg/roll/charter/ _______________________________________________ Roll mailing list Roll@ietf.org https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/roll --_000_e5daccc8a5d4490e8cf21cd48ad4bc73CO1PR04MB553namprd04pro_ Content-Type: text/html; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

Simon,<= /p>

 <= /p>

In 802.15.4,  settin= g the AR bit for acknowledgements on a broadcast is not a good idea because= the network would be flooded with ACKS.

 <= /p>

Matt

 <= /p>

3D"Description:=

Matthew Gillmore

Strategic Standards Architect= , Office of the CTO
Mobile: +1.517.745.7350
Knowledge to Shape Your Future

3D"Desc=  3D"Description:  3D"Des=  3D"Description:=

 <= /p>

 <= /p>

From: Roll [ma= ilto:roll-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of Simon Duquennoy
Sent: Friday, March 07, 2014 8:47 AM
To: Routing Over Low power and Lossy networks
Subject: Re: [Roll] Interest in opportunistic routing?

 

On Fri, Mar 7, 2014 at 1:37 PM, Michael Richardson &= lt;mcr+i= etf@sandelman.ca> wrote:


Simon Duquennoy <simonduq@sics.se> wrote:
    > We have designed an opportunistic extension of RPL, wher= e the basic idea is to
    > exploit all links of the DODAG rather than the tree defi= ned by links to
    > preferred parents. We do this using anycast: transmissio= ns are intended either
    > (upwards) to any parent or (downwards) to any child havi= ng the destination
    > below in the DODAG.

This is very interesting.

    > We have a working prototype [1] in Contiki that we evalu= ated thoroughly in a
    > 135-node testbed [2]. In a 4-min packet interval data co= llection, we increase
    > the reliability of RPL from 97.4 to 99.5%, while halving= the latency (below
    > 0.5s) and radio duty cycle (below 0.5%).

    > If there is interest, we can come up with a simplified v= ersion of the design
    > presented in the paper, and propose a way to integrate i= t in RPL through only a
    > few minor additions. To be more specific, the simplified= version would use the
    > existing RPL routing tables rather than Bloom filters, a= nd would be MAC-layer
    > agnostic (the only assumption being that the MAC layer s= upports
    > anycast).

I'm not familliar with the concept of anycast at layer-2.
I think that ethernet supports this, but that actually one would have the multicast bit set.  I think that you'd have to do the same thing on 80= 2.11.
I guess that 15.4 has a specific support for this, or is just a choice of a=
particular unicast mac?

 

Dear Michael, all,

 

There is no specific support for anycast in 802.15.4= , but the standard MAC layers can easily be used for anycast (often by sett= ing multicast/broadcast + ACK bits).

I've see prototypes for 802.15.4 beacon-enabled [1],= for a 15.4e RIT-like MAC [2], and for a CSL-like MAC (our own implementati= on uses ContikiMAC, which is similar CSL).

Should also be possible with 15.4 TSCH or even 802.1= 1 PSM.

Doing this on an always-on link like ethernet or tra= ditional 802.11 is more tricky because you need an agreement procedure so t= hat only one neighbor that received the packet forwards it. There exist sol= utions for WiFi, such as ExOR [3], which introduced opportunistic for 802.11 back in 2005. I don't think we w= ant to go into this though; I'd rather simply stipulate that anycast is req= uired at the MAC layer and possibly give some hints on how to support it on= the most common MAC protocols.

 

Best,

Simon

 

 


--
Michael Richardson <mcr+I= ETF@sandelman.ca>, Sandelman Software Works
IETF ROLL WG co-chair.    http://datatracker.ietf.org/wg/roll/cha= rter/


_______________________________________________
Roll mailing list
Roll@ietf.org
ht= tps://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/roll

 

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f//Z --_008_e5daccc8a5d4490e8cf21cd48ad4bc73CO1PR04MB553namprd04pro_-- From nobody Mon Mar 10 07:46:15 2014 Return-Path: X-Original-To: roll@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: roll@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2E3E01A0437 for ; Mon, 10 Mar 2014 07:46:09 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.277 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.277 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, FM_FORGED_GMAIL=0.622, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id l2ly3MVmHPxq for ; Mon, 10 Mar 2014 07:46:05 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail-ve0-x22f.google.com (mail-ve0-x22f.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:400c:c01::22f]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 584A21A0434 for ; Mon, 10 Mar 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<19299.1394195834@sandelman.ca> Date: Mon, 10 Mar 2014 15:45:58 +0100 X-Google-Sender-Auth: yC1tLEVAiilhijiX-uqo0jT0UGg Message-ID: From: Simon Duquennoy To: Routing Over Low power and Lossy networks Content-Type: multipart/related; boundary=047d7b675bf06e8c8904f441a90d Archived-At: http://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/roll/ZLCXYyJPPj8OmuwHQvaYjrT-ZE0 Subject: Re: [Roll] Interest in opportunistic routing? X-BeenThere: roll@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list Reply-To: Routing Over Low power and Lossy networks List-Id: Routing Over Low power and Lossy networks List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 10 Mar 2014 14:46:09 -0000 --047d7b675bf06e8c8904f441a90d Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=047d7b675bf06e8c8304f441a90c --047d7b675bf06e8c8304f441a90c Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Hi Matt, The context where anycast is some sort of acked broadcast is with radio duty cycling, in particular low-power listening. In this context, broadcasting consists in repeated transmissions for an entire sleep period so that all neighbors wake up once and get the frame. What we do is we set the ACK bit and we stop the broadcast transmission upon receiving an ACK from any neighbor (c.f. fig 2 in the paper). The concept can be applied (with some adaptations) to different duty cycling solutions including 802.11 PSM, 802.15.4 CSL, RIT or TSCH. Thanks, Simon On Mon, Mar 10, 2014 at 3:16 PM, Gillmore, Matthew < Matthew.Gillmore@itron.com> wrote: > Simon, > > > > In 802.15.4, setting the AR bit for acknowledgements on a broadcast is > not a good idea because the network would be flooded with ACKS. > > > > Matt > > > > [image: Description: > http://marketing.itron.com/campaign/ribbon_logo_rgb_81h.jpg] > > *Matthew Gillmore* > > Strategic Standards Architect, Office of the CTO > Mobile: +1.517.745.7350 > Knowledge to Shape Your Future > > [image: Description: > http://marketing.itron.com/campaign/social_media_icon_twitter29.jpg] > [image: Description: > http://marketing.itron.com/campaign/social_media_icon_facebook29.jpg] > [image: Description: > http://marketing.itron.com/campaign/social_media_icon_linkedin29.jpg] > [image: Description: > http://marketing.itron.com/campaign/social_media_icon_youtube29.jpg] > > > > > > *From:* Roll [mailto:roll-bounces@ietf.org] *On Behalf Of *Simon Duquennoy > *Sent:* Friday, March 07, 2014 8:47 AM > *To:* Routing Over Low power and Lossy networks > *Subject:* Re: [Roll] Interest in opportunistic routing? > > > > On Fri, Mar 7, 2014 at 1:37 PM, Michael Richardson > wrote: > > > Simon Duquennoy wrote: > > We have designed an opportunistic extension of RPL, where the basic > idea is to > > exploit all links of the DODAG rather than the tree defined by links > to > > preferred parents. We do this using anycast: transmissions are > intended either > > (upwards) to any parent or (downwards) to any child having the > destination > > below in the DODAG. > > This is very interesting. > > > We have a working prototype [1] in Contiki that we evaluated > thoroughly in a > > 135-node testbed [2]. In a 4-min packet interval data collection, we > increase > > the reliability of RPL from 97.4 to 99.5%, while halving the latency > (below > > 0.5s) and radio duty cycle (below 0.5%). > > > If there is interest, we can come up with a simplified version of > the design > > presented in the paper, and propose a way to integrate it in RPL > through only a > > few minor additions. To be more specific, the simplified version > would use the > > existing RPL routing tables rather than Bloom filters, and would be > MAC-layer > > agnostic (the only assumption being that the MAC layer supports > > anycast). > > I'm not familliar with the concept of anycast at layer-2. > I think that ethernet supports this, but that actually one would have the > multicast bit set. I think that you'd have to do the same thing on 802.11. > I guess that 15.4 has a specific support for this, or is just a choice of a > particular unicast mac? > > > > Dear Michael, all, > > > > There is no specific support for anycast in 802.15.4, but the standard MAC > layers can easily be used for anycast (often by setting multicast/broadcast > + ACK bits). > > I've see prototypes for 802.15.4 beacon-enabled [1], for a 15.4e RIT-like > MAC [2], and for a CSL-like MAC (our own implementation uses ContikiMAC, > which is similar CSL). > > Should also be possible with 15.4 TSCH or even 802.11 PSM. > > Doing this on an always-on link like ethernet or traditional 802.11 is > more tricky because you need an agreement procedure so that only one > neighbor that received the packet forwards it. There exist solutions for > WiFi, such as ExOR [3], which introduced opportunistic for 802.11 back in > 2005. I don't think we want to go into this though; I'd rather simply > stipulate that anycast is required at the MAC layer and possibly give some > hints on how to support it on the most common MAC protocols. > > > > Best, > > Simon > > > > [1] > http://clarinet.u-strasbg.fr/~theoleyre/uploads/Publis/pavkovic11rpl.pdf > > [2] http://www.ti5.tuhh.de/publications/2012/EWSN12_Orinoco.pdf > > [3] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ExOR_(wireless_network_protocol) > > > > > -- > Michael Richardson , Sandelman Software Works > IETF ROLL WG co-chair. http://datatracker.ietf.org/wg/roll/charter/ > > > _______________________________________________ > Roll mailing list > Roll@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/roll > > > > _______________________________________________ > Roll mailing list > Roll@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/roll > > --047d7b675bf06e8c8304f441a90c Content-Type: text/html; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Hi Matt,

The context where anycast is some so= rt of acked broadcast is with radio duty cycling, in particular low-power l= istening. In this context, broadcasting consists in repeated transmissions = for an entire sleep period so that all neighbors wake up once and get the f= rame. What we do is we set the ACK bit and we stop the broadcast transmissi= on upon receiving an ACK from any neighbor (c.f. fig 2 in the paper). The c= oncept can be applied (with some adaptations) to different duty cycling sol= utions including 802.11 PSM, 802.15.4 CSL, RIT or TSCH.

Thanks,
Simon



On Mon, Mar = 10, 2014 at 3:16 PM, Gillmore, Matthew <Matthew.Gillmore@itron.co= m> wrote:

Simon,

=A0<= /p>

In 802.15.4,=A0 setting t= he AR bit for acknowledgements on a broadcast is not a good idea because th= e network would be flooded with ACKS.

=A0<= /p>

Matt=

=A0<= /p>

3D"Description:

Matthew Gillmore<= /b>

Strategic Standards Architect, Office of = the CTO
Mobile: +1.517.745.7350
Knowledge to Shape Your Future

3D"Description:==A0 3D"Description:=A0 3D"Descri==A0 3D"Description:

=A0<= /p>

=A0<= /p>

From: Roll [ma= ilto:roll-bounce= s@ietf.org] On Behalf Of Simon Duquennoy
Sent: Friday, March 07, 2014 8:47 AM
To: Routing Over Low power and Lossy networks
Subject: Re: [Roll] Interest in opportunistic routing?=

=A0

On Fri, Mar 7, 2014 at 1:37 PM, Michael Richardson &= lt;mcr+ietf@sand= elman.ca> wrote:


Simon Duquennoy <s= imonduq@sics.se> wrote:
=A0 =A0 > We have designed an opportunistic extension of RPL, where the = basic idea is to
=A0 =A0 > exploit all links of the DODAG rather than the tree defined by= links to
=A0 =A0 > preferred parents. We do this using anycast: transmissions are= intended either
=A0 =A0 > (upwards) to any parent or (downwards) to any child having the= destination
=A0 =A0 > below in the DODAG.

This is very interesting.

=A0 =A0 > We have a working prototype [1] in Contiki that we evaluated t= horoughly in a
=A0 =A0 > 135-node testbed [2]. In a 4-min packet interval data collecti= on, we increase
=A0 =A0 > the reliability of RPL from 97.4 to 99.5%, while halving the l= atency (below
=A0 =A0 > 0.5s) and radio duty cycle (below 0.5%).

=A0 =A0 > If there is interest, we can come up with a simplified version= of the design
=A0 =A0 > presented in the paper, and propose a way to integrate it in R= PL through only a
=A0 =A0 > few minor additions. To be more specific, the simplified versi= on would use the
=A0 =A0 > existing RPL routing tables rather than Bloom filters, and wou= ld be MAC-layer
=A0 =A0 > agnostic (the only assumption being that the MAC layer support= s
=A0 =A0 > anycast).

I'm not familliar with the concept of anycast at layer-2.
I think that ethernet supports this, but that actually one would have the multicast bit set. =A0I think that you'd have to do the same thing on 8= 02.11.
I guess that 15.4 has a specific support for this, or is just a choice of a=
particular unicast mac?

=A0

Dear Michael, all,

=A0

There is no specific support for anycast in 802.15.4= , but the standard MAC layers can easily be used for anycast (often by sett= ing multicast/broadcast + ACK bits).

I've see prototypes for 802.15.4 beacon-enabled = [1], for a 15.4e RIT-like MAC [2], and for a CSL-like MAC (our own implemen= tation uses ContikiMAC, which is similar CSL).

Should also be possible with 15.4 TSCH or even 802.1= 1 PSM.

Doing this on an always-on link like ethernet or tra= ditional 802.11 is more tricky because you need an agreement procedure so t= hat only one neighbor that received the packet forwards it. There exist sol= utions for WiFi, such as ExOR [3], which introduced opportunistic for 802.11 back in 2005. I don't think = we want to go into this though; I'd rather simply stipulate that anycas= t is required at the MAC layer and possibly give some hints on how to suppo= rt it on the most common MAC protocols.

=A0

Best,

Simon

=A0

=A0


--
Michael Richardson <mcr+IETF@sandelman.ca>, Sandelman Software Works
IETF ROLL WG co-chair. =A0 =A0http://datatracker.ietf.org/wg/roll/charter/<= /a>


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=A0


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[127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id p6DiEVLc_WEx for ; Mon, 10 Mar 2014 14:18:17 -0700 (PDT) Received: from na01-by2-obe.outbound.protection.outlook.com (mail-by2lp0243.outbound.protection.outlook.com [207.46.163.243]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 143DC1A065B for ; Mon, 10 Mar 2014 14:18:16 -0700 (PDT) Received: from CO1PR04MB553.namprd04.prod.outlook.com (10.141.73.12) by BY2PR04MB157.namprd04.prod.outlook.com (10.242.40.140) with Microsoft SMTP Server (TLS) id 15.0.888.9; Mon, 10 Mar 2014 21:18:10 +0000 Received: from CO1PR04MB553.namprd04.prod.outlook.com ([169.254.12.166]) by CO1PR04MB553.namprd04.prod.outlook.com ([169.254.12.166]) with mapi id 15.00.0888.003; Mon, 10 Mar 2014 21:18:09 +0000 From: "Gillmore, Matthew" To: Routing Over Low power and Lossy networks Thread-Topic: [Roll] Interest in opportunistic routing? Thread-Index: AQHPOeuFCzX9weiKlkmhJUrVClYkHprVkBgAgAATdYCABL58MIAACQUAgABoYRA= Date: Mon, 10 Mar 2014 21:18:09 +0000 Message-ID: <399f072257c74492866cccc01d025dee@CO1PR04MB553.namprd04.prod.outlook.com> References: <19299.1394195834@sandelman.ca> In-Reply-To: Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: yes X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-originating-ip: [68.41.67.117] x-forefront-prvs: 014617085B x-forefront-antispam-report: =?us-ascii?Q?SFV:NSPM; SFS:(10019001)(428001)(189002)(199002)(51444003)(16?= =?us-ascii?Q?4054003)(24454002)(50944004)(377454003)(243025003)(47446002)?= =?us-ascii?Q?(19580395003)(59766001)(15202345003)(33646001)(51856001)(779?= =?us-ascii?Q?82001)(95416001)(19580405001)(54316002)(74706001)(79102001)(?= =?us-ascii?Q?81542001)(77096001)(56776001)(76796001)(83322001)(46102001)(?= =?us-ascii?Q?76786001)(53806001)(50986001)(95666003)(69226001)(49866001)(?= =?us-ascii?Q?74502001)(74662001)(17760045001)(94316002)(47736001)(9494600?= =?us-ascii?Q?1)(31966008)(81686001)(54356001)(80976001)(85306002)(7648200?= =?us-ascii?Q?1)(74316001)(19300405004)(97186001)(19618635001)(63696002)(1?= =?us-ascii?Q?9618595001)(19617315010)(93516002)(16236675002)(65816001)(81?= =?us-ascii?Q?816001)(93136001)(80022001)(83072002)(47976001)(74876001)(76?= =?us-ascii?Q?576001)(87936001)(74366001)(81342001)(92566001)(90146001)(97?= =?us-ascii?Q?336001)(56816005)(15395725003)(86362001)(18206015023)(439600?= =?us-ascii?Q?1)(66066001)(15975445006)(85852003)(2656002)(87266001)(24736?= =?us-ascii?Q?002)(562404015);DIR:OUT;SFP:1102;SCL:1;SRVR:BY2PR04MB157;H:C?= =?us-ascii?Q?O1PR04MB553.namprd04.prod.outlook.com;CLIP:68.41.67.117;FPR:?= =?us-ascii?Q?AE07C156.ABFAD3E6.BAD5B567.4EC4BD71.205EA;MLV:sfv;PTR:InfoNo?= =?us-ascii?Q?Records;MX:1;A:1;LANG:en;?= received-spf: None (: itron.com does not designate permitted sender hosts) Content-Type: multipart/related; boundary="_008_399f072257c74492866cccc01d025deeCO1PR04MB553namprd04pro_"; type="multipart/alternative" MIME-Version: 1.0 X-OriginatorOrg: itron.com Archived-At: http://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/roll/HxmvZWovfrEdl1-snRJCy4kzW4k Subject: Re: [Roll] Interest in opportunistic routing? X-BeenThere: roll@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list Reply-To: Routing Over Low power and Lossy networks List-Id: Routing Over Low power and Lossy networks List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 10 Mar 2014 21:18:23 -0000 --_008_399f072257c74492866cccc01d025deeCO1PR04MB553namprd04pro_ Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="_000_399f072257c74492866cccc01d025deeCO1PR04MB553namprd04pro_" --_000_399f072257c74492866cccc01d025deeCO1PR04MB553namprd04pro_ Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Simon, Not sure how that's possible because in 802.15.4-2011 it states 5.1.6.4 Use of acknowledgments and retransmissions A data or MAC command frame shall be sent with the AR field set appropriate= ly for the frame. A beacon or acknowledgment frame shall always be sent with the AR field set to indicate= no acknowledgment requested. Similarly, any frame that is broadcast shall be sent with its AR field set = to indicate no acknowledgment requested. Even if this restriction wasn't in place, broadcasting with the AR bit set= is not a good idea because any devices that hears the broadcast will respo= nd within macSIFSPeriod will cause a flood. [Description: http://marketing.itron.com/campaign/ribbon_logo_rgb_81h.jpg]<= https://www.itron.com/> Matthew Gillmore Strategic Standards Architect, Office of the CTO Mobile: +1.517.745.7350 Knowledge to Shape Your Future [Description: http://marketing.itron.com/campaign/social_media_icon_twitter= 29.jpg] [Description: http://marketing.itron.= com/campaign/social_media_icon_facebook29.jpg] [Description: http://marketing.itron.com/campaign/social_media_ico= n_linkedin29.jpg] [Desc= ription: http://marketing.itron.com/campaign/social_media_icon_youtube29.jp= g] From: Roll [mailto:roll-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of Simon Duquennoy Sent: Monday, March 10, 2014 10:46 AM To: Routing Over Low power and Lossy networks Subject: Re: [Roll] Interest in opportunistic routing? Hi Matt, The context where anycast is some sort of acked broadcast is with radio dut= y cycling, in particular low-power listening. In this context, broadcasting= consists in repeated transmissions for an entire sleep period so that all = neighbors wake up once and get the frame. What we do is we set the ACK bit = and we stop the broadcast transmission upon receiving an ACK from any neigh= bor (c.f. fig 2 in the paper). The concept can be applied (with some adapta= tions) to different duty cycling solutions including 802.11 PSM, 802.15.4 C= SL, RIT or TSCH. Thanks, Simon On Mon, Mar 10, 2014 at 3:16 PM, Gillmore, Matthew > wrote: Simon, In 802.15.4, setting the AR bit for acknowledgements on a broadcast is not= a good idea because the network would be flooded with ACKS. Matt [Description: http://marketing.itron.com/campaign/ribbon_logo_rgb_81h.jpg]<= https://www.itron.com/> Matthew Gillmore Strategic Standards Architect, Office of the CTO Mobile: +1.517.745.7350 Knowledge to Shape Your Future [Description: http://marketing.itron.com/campaign/social_media_icon_twitter= 29.jpg] [Description: http://marketing.itron.= com/campaign/social_media_icon_facebook29.jpg] [Description: http://marketing.itron.com/campaign/social_media_ico= n_linkedin29.jpg] [Desc= ription: http://marketing.itron.com/campaign/social_media_icon_youtube29.jp= g] From: Roll [mailto:roll-bounces@ietf.org] On = Behalf Of Simon Duquennoy Sent: Friday, March 07, 2014 8:47 AM To: Routing Over Low power and Lossy networks Subject: Re: [Roll] Interest in opportunistic routing? On Fri, Mar 7, 2014 at 1:37 PM, Michael Richardson > wrote: Simon Duquennoy > wrote: > We have designed an opportunistic extension of RPL, where the basic i= dea is to > exploit all links of the DODAG rather than the tree defined by links = to > preferred parents. We do this using anycast: transmissions are intend= ed either > (upwards) to any parent or (downwards) to any child having the destin= ation > below in the DODAG. This is very interesting. > We have a working prototype [1] in Contiki that we evaluated thorough= ly in a > 135-node testbed [2]. In a 4-min packet interval data collection, we = increase > the reliability of RPL from 97.4 to 99.5%, while halving the latency = (below > 0.5s) and radio duty cycle (below 0.5%). > If there is interest, we can come up with a simplified version of the= design > presented in the paper, and propose a way to integrate it in RPL thro= ugh only a > few minor additions. To be more specific, the simplified version woul= d use the > existing RPL routing tables rather than Bloom filters, and would be M= AC-layer > agnostic (the only assumption being that the MAC layer supports > anycast). I'm not familliar with the concept of anycast at layer-2. I think that ethernet supports this, but that actually one would have the multicast bit set. I think that you'd have to do the same thing on 802.11. I guess that 15.4 has a specific support for this, or is just a choice of a particular unicast mac? Dear Michael, all, There is no specific support for anycast in 802.15.4, but the standard MAC = layers can easily be used for anycast (often by setting multicast/broadcast= + ACK bits). I've see prototypes for 802.15.4 beacon-enabled [1], for a 15.4e RIT-like M= AC [2], and for a CSL-like MAC (our own implementation uses ContikiMAC, whi= ch is similar CSL). Should also be possible with 15.4 TSCH or even 802.11 PSM. Doing this on an always-on link like ethernet or traditional 802.11 is more= tricky because you need an agreement procedure so that only one neighbor t= hat received the packet forwards it. There exist solutions for WiFi, such a= s ExOR [3], which introduced opportunistic for 802.11 back in 2005. I don't= think we want to go into this though; I'd rather simply stipulate that any= cast is required at the MAC layer and possibly give some hints on how to su= pport it on the most common MAC protocols. Best, Simon [1] http://clarinet.u-strasbg.fr/~theoleyre/uploads/Publis/pavkovic11rpl.pd= f [2] http://www.ti5.tuhh.de/publications/2012/EWSN12_Orinoco.pdf [3] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ExOR_(wireless_network_protocol) -- Michael Richardson >,= Sandelman Software Works IETF ROLL WG co-chair. http://datatracker.ietf.org/wg/roll/charter/ _______________________________________________ Roll mailing list Roll@ietf.org https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/roll _______________________________________________ Roll mailing list Roll@ietf.org https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/roll --_000_399f072257c74492866cccc01d025deeCO1PR04MB553namprd04pro_ Content-Type: text/html; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

Simon,<= /p>

 <= /p>

Not sure how that’s= possible because in 802.15.4-2011 it states

 <= /p>

5.1.6.4 Use of ackno= wledgments and retransmissions

A data or MAC command frame shall be s= ent with the AR field set appropriately for the frame. A beacon or

acknowledgment frame shall always be s= ent with the AR field set to indicate no acknowledgment requested.

Similarly, any frame that is broadcast= shall be sent with its AR field set to indicate no acknowledgment

requested.

 <= /p>

Even if this restriction = wasn’t in place,  broadcasting with the AR bit set is not a good= idea because any devices that hears the broadcast will respond within macSIFSPeriod will cause a flood.=

 <= /p>

 <= /p>

3D"Description:=

Matthew Gillmore

Strategic Standards Architect= , Office of the CTO
Mobile: +1.517.745.7350
Knowledge to Shape Your Future

3D"Desc=  3D"Description:  3D"Des=  3D"Description:=

 <= /p>

 <= /p>

From: Roll [ma= ilto:roll-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of Simon Duquennoy
Sent: Monday, March 10, 2014 10:46 AM
To: Routing Over Low power and Lossy networks
Subject: Re: [Roll] Interest in opportunistic routing?

 

Hi Matt,

 

The context where anycast is some sort of acked broa= dcast is with radio duty cycling, in particular low-power listening. In thi= s context, broadcasting consists in repeated transmissions for an entire sl= eep period so that all neighbors wake up once and get the frame. What we do is we set the ACK bit and we stop th= e broadcast transmission upon receiving an ACK from any neighbor (c.f. fig = 2 in the paper). The concept can be applied (with some adaptations) to diff= erent duty cycling solutions including 802.11 PSM, 802.15.4 CSL, RIT or TSCH.

 

Thanks,

Simon

 

 

On Mon, Mar 10, 2014 at 3:16 PM, Gillmore, Matthew &= lt;Matthew.= Gillmore@itron.com> wrote:

Simon,

 

In 802.15.4,  setting the AR bit f= or acknowledgements on a broadcast is not a good idea because the network would be flooded with ACKS.

 

Matt

 

3D"Descrip=<= /a>

Matthew Gillmore

Strategic Standards Architect, Office of the CTO
Mobile: +1.517.745.= 7350
Knowledge to Shape Your Future

3D"Descri=  3D"Des=  3D"Description:  =3D"Description:

 

 

From: Roll [mailto:roll-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of Simon Duquennoy
Sent: Friday, March 07, 2014 8:47 AM
To: Routing Over Low power and Lossy networks
Subject: Re: [Roll] Interest in opportunistic routing?

 

On Fri, Mar 7, 2014 at 1:37 PM, Michael Richardson <mcr+ietf@sandelman.= ca> wrote:


Simon Duquennoy <s= imonduq@sics.se> wrote:
    > We have designed an opportunistic extension of RPL, wher= e the basic idea is to
    > exploit all links of the DODAG rather than the tree defi= ned by links to
    > preferred parents. We do this using anycast: transmissio= ns are intended either
    > (upwards) to any parent or (downwards) to any child havi= ng the destination
    > below in the DODAG.

This is very interesting.

    > We have a working prototype [1] in Contiki that we evalu= ated thoroughly in a
    > 135-node testbed [2]. In a 4-min packet interval data co= llection, we increase
    > the reliability of RPL from 97.4 to 99.5%, while halving= the latency (below
    > 0.5s) and radio duty cycle (below 0.5%).

    > If there is interest, we can come up with a simplified v= ersion of the design
    > presented in the paper, and propose a way to integrate i= t in RPL through only a
    > few minor additions. To be more specific, the simplified= version would use the
    > existing RPL routing tables rather than Bloom filters, a= nd would be MAC-layer
    > agnostic (the only assumption being that the MAC layer s= upports
    > anycast).

I'm not familliar with the concept of anycast at layer-2.
I think that ethernet supports this, but that actually one would have the multicast bit set.  I think that you'd have to do the same thing on 80= 2.11.
I guess that 15.4 has a specific support for this, or is just a choice of a=
particular unicast mac?

 

Dear Michael, all,

 

There is no specific support for anycast in 802.15.4, but the stan= dard MAC layers can easily be used for anycast (often by setting multicast/= broadcast + ACK bits).

I've see prototypes for 802.15.4 beacon-enabled [1], for a 15.4e R= IT-like MAC [2], and for a CSL-like MAC (our own implementation uses Contik= iMAC, which is similar CSL).

Should also be possible with 15.4 TSCH or even 802.11 PSM.

Doing this on an always-on link like ethernet or traditional 802.1= 1 is more tricky because you need an agreement procedure so that only one n= eighbor that received the packet forwards it. There exist solutions for WiFi, such as ExOR [3], which introduced opp= ortunistic for 802.11 back in 2005. I don't think we want to go into this t= hough; I'd rather simply stipulate that anycast is required at the MAC laye= r and possibly give some hints on how to support it on the most common MAC protocols.

 

Best,

Simon

 

 


--
Michael Richardson <mcr+IETF@sandelman.ca>, Sandelma= n Software Works
IETF ROLL WG co-chair.    http://datatrack= er.ietf.org/wg/roll/charter/


_______________________________________________
Roll mailing list
R= oll@ietf.org
https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/roll<= /span>

 


_______________________________________________
Roll mailing list
Roll@ietf.org
ht= tps://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/roll

 

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f//Z --_008_399f072257c74492866cccc01d025deeCO1PR04MB553namprd04pro_-- From nobody Mon Mar 10 15:49:34 2014 Return-Path: X-Original-To: roll@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: roll@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 87FF01A04E8 for ; Mon, 10 Mar 2014 15:49:29 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.277 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.277 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, FM_FORGED_GMAIL=0.622, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id TIkYXcjWACCh for ; Mon, 10 Mar 2014 15:49:24 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail-ve0-x234.google.com (mail-ve0-x234.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:400c:c01::234]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 15BDB1A0495 for ; Mon, 10 Mar 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<399f072257c74492866cccc01d025dee@CO1PR04MB553.namprd04.prod.outlook.com> References: <19299.1394195834@sandelman.ca> <399f072257c74492866cccc01d025dee@CO1PR04MB553.namprd04.prod.outlook.com> Date: Mon, 10 Mar 2014 23:49:17 +0100 X-Google-Sender-Auth: w-OkPvkNz_Ge8FkC6j25eEHGfjc Message-ID: From: Simon Duquennoy To: Routing Over Low power and Lossy networks Content-Type: multipart/related; boundary=089e013a0d72e4bf5904f448695e Archived-At: http://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/roll/SHsLuSjwTqoH1dK16QeixBWVfI4 Subject: Re: [Roll] Interest in opportunistic routing? X-BeenThere: roll@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list Reply-To: Routing Over Low power and Lossy networks List-Id: Routing Over Low power and Lossy networks List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 10 Mar 2014 22:49:29 -0000 --089e013a0d72e4bf5904f448695e Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=089e013a0d72e4bf5704f448695d --089e013a0d72e4bf5704f448695d Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 The context is a network where nodes are duty cycled, and when you transmit anycast frame, either: * in most cases, only one node receives the frame and sends an ACK; * in some cases, several nodes receive the same frame and send an ACK (after macSIFSPeriod). This results in occasional duplicate forwarding but as discussed before this is tolerated by the protocol. Note that several ACK frames sent simultaneously are not a problem, the sender will typically be able to decode the frame through constructive interference (c.f. backcast [1], a concept that's been already re-validated by many including us, in various contexts) [1] http://conferences.sigcomm.org/hotnets/2008/papers/4.pdf Best, Simon On Mon, Mar 10, 2014 at 10:18 PM, Gillmore, Matthew < Matthew.Gillmore@itron.com> wrote: > Simon, > > > > Not sure how that's possible because in 802.15.4-2011 it states > > > > *5.1.6.4 Use of acknowledgments and retransmissions* > > A data or MAC command frame shall be sent with the AR field set > appropriately for the frame. A beacon or > > acknowledgment frame shall always be sent with the AR field set to > indicate no acknowledgment requested. > > Similarly, any frame that is broadcast shall be sent with its AR field set > to indicate no acknowledgment > > requested. > > > > Even if this restriction wasn't in place, broadcasting with the AR bit > set is not a good idea because any devices that hears the broadcast will > respond within *macSIFSPeriod *will cause a flood. > > > > > > [image: Description: > http://marketing.itron.com/campaign/ribbon_logo_rgb_81h.jpg] > > *Matthew Gillmore* > > Strategic Standards Architect, Office of the CTO > Mobile: +1.517.745.7350 > Knowledge to Shape Your Future > > [image: Description: > http://marketing.itron.com/campaign/social_media_icon_twitter29.jpg] > [image: Description: > http://marketing.itron.com/campaign/social_media_icon_facebook29.jpg] > [image: Description: > http://marketing.itron.com/campaign/social_media_icon_linkedin29.jpg] > [image: Description: > http://marketing.itron.com/campaign/social_media_icon_youtube29.jpg] > > > > > > *From:* Roll [mailto:roll-bounces@ietf.org] *On Behalf Of *Simon Duquennoy > *Sent:* Monday, March 10, 2014 10:46 AM > *To:* Routing Over Low power and Lossy networks > *Subject:* Re: [Roll] Interest in opportunistic routing? > > > > Hi Matt, > > > > The context where anycast is some sort of acked broadcast is with radio > duty cycling, in particular low-power listening. In this context, > broadcasting consists in repeated transmissions for an entire sleep period > so that all neighbors wake up once and get the frame. What we do is we set > the ACK bit and we stop the broadcast transmission upon receiving an ACK > from any neighbor (c.f. fig 2 in the paper). The concept can be applied > (with some adaptations) to different duty cycling solutions including > 802.11 PSM, 802.15.4 CSL, RIT or TSCH. > > > > Thanks, > > Simon > > > > > > On Mon, Mar 10, 2014 at 3:16 PM, Gillmore, Matthew < > Matthew.Gillmore@itron.com> wrote: > > Simon, > > > > In 802.15.4, setting the AR bit for acknowledgements on a broadcast is > not a good idea because the network would be flooded with ACKS. > > > > Matt > > > > [image: Description: > http://marketing.itron.com/campaign/ribbon_logo_rgb_81h.jpg] > > *Matthew Gillmore* > > Strategic Standards Architect, Office of the CTO > Mobile: +1.517.745.7350 > Knowledge to Shape Your Future > > [image: Description: > http://marketing.itron.com/campaign/social_media_icon_twitter29.jpg] > [image: Description: > http://marketing.itron.com/campaign/social_media_icon_facebook29.jpg] > [image: Description: > http://marketing.itron.com/campaign/social_media_icon_linkedin29.jpg] > [image: Description: > http://marketing.itron.com/campaign/social_media_icon_youtube29.jpg] > > > > > > *From:* Roll [mailto:roll-bounces@ietf.org] *On Behalf Of *Simon Duquennoy > *Sent:* Friday, March 07, 2014 8:47 AM > *To:* Routing Over Low power and Lossy networks > *Subject:* Re: [Roll] Interest in opportunistic routing? > > > > On Fri, Mar 7, 2014 at 1:37 PM, Michael Richardson > wrote: > > > Simon Duquennoy wrote: > > We have designed an opportunistic extension of RPL, where the basic > idea is to > > exploit all links of the DODAG rather than the tree defined by links > to > > preferred parents. We do this using anycast: transmissions are > intended either > > (upwards) to any parent or (downwards) to any child having the > destination > > below in the DODAG. > > This is very interesting. > > > We have a working prototype [1] in Contiki that we evaluated > thoroughly in a > > 135-node testbed [2]. In a 4-min packet interval data collection, we > increase > > the reliability of RPL from 97.4 to 99.5%, while halving the latency > (below > > 0.5s) and radio duty cycle (below 0.5%). > > > If there is interest, we can come up with a simplified version of > the design > > presented in the paper, and propose a way to integrate it in RPL > through only a > > few minor additions. To be more specific, the simplified version > would use the > > existing RPL routing tables rather than Bloom filters, and would be > MAC-layer > > agnostic (the only assumption being that the MAC layer supports > > anycast). > > I'm not familliar with the concept of anycast at layer-2. > I think that ethernet supports this, but that actually one would have the > multicast bit set. I think that you'd have to do the same thing on 802.11. > I guess that 15.4 has a specific support for this, or is just a choice of a > particular unicast mac? > > > > Dear Michael, all, > > > > There is no specific support for anycast in 802.15.4, but the standard MAC > layers can easily be used for anycast (often by setting multicast/broadcast > + ACK bits). > > I've see prototypes for 802.15.4 beacon-enabled [1], for a 15.4e RIT-like > MAC [2], and for a CSL-like MAC (our own implementation uses ContikiMAC, > which is similar CSL). > > Should also be possible with 15.4 TSCH or even 802.11 PSM. > > Doing this on an always-on link like ethernet or traditional 802.11 is > more tricky because you need an agreement procedure so that only one > neighbor that received the packet forwards it. There exist solutions for > WiFi, such as ExOR [3], which introduced opportunistic for 802.11 back in > 2005. I don't think we want to go into this though; I'd rather simply > stipulate that anycast is required at the MAC layer and possibly give some > hints on how to support it on the most common MAC protocols. > > > > Best, > > Simon > > > > [1] > http://clarinet.u-strasbg.fr/~theoleyre/uploads/Publis/pavkovic11rpl.pdf > > [2] http://www.ti5.tuhh.de/publications/2012/EWSN12_Orinoco.pdf > > [3] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ExOR_(wireless_network_protocol) > > > > > -- > Michael Richardson , Sandelman Software Works > IETF ROLL WG co-chair. http://datatracker.ietf.org/wg/roll/charter/ > > > _______________________________________________ > Roll mailing list > Roll@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/roll > > > > > _______________________________________________ > Roll mailing list > Roll@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/roll > > > > _______________________________________________ > Roll mailing list > Roll@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/roll > > --089e013a0d72e4bf5704f448695d Content-Type: text/html; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
The context is a network where = nodes are duty cycled, and when you transmit anycast frame, either:
* in most cases, only one node receives the frame = and sends an ACK;
* in some cases, several nodes receive the same = frame and send an ACK (after macSIFSPeriod). This results in occasional dup= licate forwarding but as discussed before this is tolerated by the protocol= . Note that several ACK frames sent simultaneously are not a problem, the s= ender will typically be able to decode the frame through constructive inter= ference (c.f. backcast [1], a concept that's been already re-validated = by many including us, in various contexts)

[1] http://c= onferences.sigcomm.org/hotnets/2008/papers/4.pdf

Best,
= Simon

On Mon= , Mar 10, 2014 at 10:18 PM, Gillmore, Matthew <Matthew.Gillmore@i= tron.com> wrote:

Simon,

 

Not sure how that’s possible because i= n 802.15.4-2011 it states

 

5.1.6.4 Use of acknowledgments and= retransmissions

A data or MAC command frame shall be sen= t with the AR field set appropriately for the frame. A beacon or<= /u>

acknowledgment frame shall always be sen= t with the AR field set to indicate no acknowledgment requested.<= /u>

Similarly, any frame that is broadcast s= hall be sent with its AR field set to indicate no acknowledgment<= /u>

requested.

 

Even if this restriction wasn’t in pla= ce,  broadcasting with the AR bit set is not a good idea because any d= evices that hears the broadcast will respond within macSIFSPeriod will cause a flood.

 

 

3D"Description:

Matthew Gillmore

Strategic Standards Architect, Office of the CTO
Mobile: +1.517.745.7350
Knowledge to Shape Your Future

3D"Description:=  3D"Description:  3D"Descri=  3D"Description:

 

 

From: Roll [mailto:roll-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of Simon Duquennoy
Sent: Monday, March 10, 2014 10:46 AM
To: Routing Over Low power and Lossy networks
Subject: Re: [Roll] Interest in opportunistic routing?=

 

Hi Matt,

 

The context where anycast is some sort of acked broa= dcast is with radio duty cycling, in particular low-power listening. In thi= s context, broadcasting consists in repeated transmissions for an entire sl= eep period so that all neighbors wake up once and get the frame. What we do is we set the ACK bit and we stop th= e broadcast transmission upon receiving an ACK from any neighbor (c.f. fig = 2 in the paper). The concept can be applied (with some adaptations) to diff= erent duty cycling solutions including 802.11 PSM, 802.15.4 CSL, RIT or TSCH.

 

Thanks,

Simon

 

 

On Mon, Mar 10, 2014 at 3:16 PM, Gillmore, Matthew &= lt;Matthew.= Gillmore@itron.com> wrote:

Simon,

 

In 802.15.4,  setting the AR bit for ac= knowledgements on a broadcast is not a good idea because the network would be flooded with ACKS.

 

Matt

 

3D"Description:=

Matthew Gillmore

Strategic Standards Architect, Office of the CTO
Mobile: +1.517.745.7350=
Knowledge to Shape Your Future

3D"Description:=  3D"Description:  3D"Descri=  3D"Description:

 

 

From: Roll [mailto:roll-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of Simon Duquennoy
Sent: Friday, March 07, 2014 8:47 AM
To: Routing Over Low power and Lossy networks
Subject: Re: [Roll] Interest in opportunistic routing?=

 

On Fri, Mar 7, 2014 at 1:37 PM, Michael Richardson &= lt;mcr+ietf@sand= elman.ca> wrote:


Simon Duquennoy <s= imonduq@sics.se> wrote:
    > We have designed an opportunistic extension of RPL, wher= e the basic idea is to
    > exploit all links of the DODAG rather than the tree defi= ned by links to
    > preferred parents. We do this using anycast: transmissio= ns are intended either
    > (upwards) to any parent or (downwards) to any child havi= ng the destination
    > below in the DODAG.

This is very interesting.

    > We have a working prototype [1] in Contiki that we evalu= ated thoroughly in a
    > 135-node testbed [2]. In a 4-min packet interval data co= llection, we increase
    > the reliability of RPL from 97.4 to 99.5%, while halving= the latency (below
    > 0.5s) and radio duty cycle (below 0.5%).

    > If there is interest, we can come up with a simplified v= ersion of the design
    > presented in the paper, and propose a way to integrate i= t in RPL through only a
    > few minor additions. To be more specific, the simplified= version would use the
    > existing RPL routing tables rather than Bloom filters, a= nd would be MAC-layer
    > agnostic (the only assumption being that the MAC layer s= upports
    > anycast).

I'm not familliar with the concept of anycast at layer-2.
I think that ethernet supports this, but that actually one would have the multicast bit set.  I think that you'd have to do the same thing o= n 802.11.
I guess that 15.4 has a specific support for this, or is just a choice of a=
particular unicast mac?

 

Dear Michael, all,

 

There is no specific support for anycast in 802.15.4= , but the standard MAC layers can easily be used for anycast (often by sett= ing multicast/broadcast + ACK bits).

I've see prototypes for 802.15.4 beacon-enabled = [1], for a 15.4e RIT-like MAC [2], and for a CSL-like MAC (our own implemen= tation uses ContikiMAC, which is similar CSL).

Should also be possible with 15.4 TSCH or even 802.1= 1 PSM.

Doing this on an always-on link like ethernet or tra= ditional 802.11 is more tricky because you need an agreement procedure so t= hat only one neighbor that received the packet forwards it. There exist solutions for WiFi, such as ExOR [3], which introduced opp= ortunistic for 802.11 back in 2005. I don't think we want to go into th= is though; I'd rather simply stipulate that anycast is required at the = MAC layer and possibly give some hints on how to support it on the most common MAC protocols.

 

Best,

Simon

 

 


--
Michael Richardson <mcr+IETF@sandelman.ca>, Sandelman Software Works
IETF ROLL WG co-chair.    http://datatracker.ietf.org/wg/ro= ll/charter/


_______________________________________________
Roll mailing list
Roll@ietf.org<= /span>
https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/roll<= /u>

 


_______________________________________________
Roll mailing list
Roll@ietf.org
ht= tps://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/roll

 


_______________________________________________
Roll mailing list
Roll@ietf.org
ht= tps://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/roll


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Microsoft-MacOutlook/14.3.9.131030 Date: Mon, 10 Mar 2014 15:58:49 -0700 From: Don Sturek To: Routing Over Low power and Lossy networks Message-ID: Thread-Topic: [Roll] Interest in opportunistic routing? References: <19299.1394195834@sandelman.ca> <399f072257c74492866cccc01d025dee@CO1PR04MB553.namprd04.prod.outlook.com> In-Reply-To: Mime-version: 1.0 Content-type: multipart/mixed; boundary="B_3477311931_791931" Archived-At: http://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/roll/Ejkop9mSGruW7UgfFCc9aNfuf7U Subject: Re: [Roll] Interest in opportunistic routing? X-BeenThere: roll@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list Reply-To: Routing Over Low power and Lossy networks List-Id: Routing Over Low power and Lossy networks List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 10 Mar 2014 22:59:04 -0000 > This message is in MIME format. Since your mail reader does not understand this format, some or all of this message may not be legible. --B_3477311931_791931 Content-type: multipart/alternative; boundary="B_3477311931_794057" --B_3477311931_794057 Content-type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-transfer-encoding: quoted-printable Hi Simon, I think Matt's question might be in the context of an AMI application where most of the devices are powered. I think in that use case that setting the AR field as you indicated would not work well. Don From: Simon Duquennoy Reply-To: Routing Over Low power and Lossy networks Date: Monday, March 10, 2014 3:49 PM To: Routing Over Low power and Lossy networks Subject: Re: [Roll] Interest in opportunistic routing? The context is a network where nodes are duty cycled, and when you transmit anycast frame, either: * in most cases, only one node receives the frame and sends an ACK; * in some cases, several nodes receive the same frame and send an ACK (afte= r macSIFSPeriod). This results in occasional duplicate forwarding but as discussed before this is tolerated by the protocol. Note that several ACK frames sent simultaneously are not a problem, the sender will typically be able to decode the frame through constructive interference (c.f. backcast [1], a concept that's been already re-validated by many including us, in various contexts) [1] http://conferences.sigcomm.org/hotnets/2008/papers/4.pdf Best, Simon On Mon, Mar 10, 2014 at 10:18 PM, Gillmore, Matthew wrote: > Simon, > =20 > Not sure how that=B9s possible because in 802.15.4-2011 it states > =20 > 5.1.6.4 Use of acknowledgments and retransmissions > A data or MAC command frame shall be sent with the AR field set appropria= tely > for the frame. A beacon or > acknowledgment frame shall always be sent with the AR field set to indica= te no > acknowledgment requested. > Similarly, any frame that is broadcast shall be sent with its AR field se= t to > indicate no acknowledgment > requested. > =20 > Even if this restriction wasn=B9t in place, broadcasting with the AR bit s= et is > not a good idea because any devices that hears the broadcast will respond > within macSIFSPeriod will cause a flood. > =20 > =20 > > Matthew GillmoreStrategic Standards Architect, Office of the CTO > Mobile: +1.517.745.7350 > Knowledge to Shape Your Future > > > > =20 > =20 > From: Roll [mailto:roll-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of Simon Duquennoy > Sent: Monday, March 10, 2014 10:46 AM > To: Routing Over Low power and Lossy networks > Subject: Re: [Roll] Interest in opportunistic routing? > =20 >=20 > Hi Matt, >=20 > =20 >=20 > The context where anycast is some sort of acked broadcast is with radio d= uty > cycling, in particular low-power listening. In this context, broadcasting > consists in repeated transmissions for an entire sleep period so that all > neighbors wake up once and get the frame. What we do is we set the ACK bi= t and > we stop the broadcast transmission upon receiving an ACK from any neighbo= r > (c.f. fig 2 in the paper). The concept can be applied (with some adaptati= ons) > to different duty cycling solutions including 802.11 PSM, 802.15.4 CSL, R= IT or > TSCH. >=20 > =20 >=20 > Thanks, >=20 > Simon >=20 > =20 >=20 > =20 >=20 > On Mon, Mar 10, 2014 at 3:16 PM, Gillmore, Matthew > wrote: >=20 > Simon, > =20 > In 802.15.4, setting the AR bit for acknowledgements on a broadcast is n= ot a > good idea because the network would be flooded with ACKS. > =20 > Matt > =20 > > Matthew GillmoreStrategic Standards Architect, Office of the CTO > Mobile: +1.517.745.7350 > Knowledge to Shape Your Future > > > > =20 > =20 > From: Roll [mailto:roll-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of Simon Duquennoy > Sent: Friday, March 07, 2014 8:47 AM > To: Routing Over Low power and Lossy networks > Subject: Re: [Roll] Interest in opportunistic routing? > =20 >=20 > On Fri, Mar 7, 2014 at 1:37 PM, Michael Richardson > wrote: >=20 > Simon Duquennoy wrote: >> > We have designed an opportunistic extension of RPL, where the basi= c >> idea is to >> > exploit all links of the DODAG rather than the tree defined by lin= ks to >> > preferred parents. We do this using anycast: transmissions are int= ended >> either >> > (upwards) to any parent or (downwards) to any child having the >> destination >> > below in the DODAG. >=20 > This is very interesting. >=20 >> > We have a working prototype [1] in Contiki that we evaluated thoro= ughly in a >> > 135-node testbed [2]. In a 4-min packet interval data collection, = we >> increase >> > the reliability of RPL from 97.4 to 99.5%, while halving the laten= cy >> (below >> > 0.5s) and radio duty cycle (below 0.5%). >=20 >> > If there is interest, we can come up with a simplified version of = the >> design >> > presented in the paper, and propose a way to integrate it in RPL >> through only a >> > few minor additions. To be more specific, the simplified version w= ould >> use the >> > existing RPL routing tables rather than Bloom filters, and would b= e >> MAC-layer >> > agnostic (the only assumption being that the MAC layer supports >> > anycast). >=20 > I'm not familliar with the concept of anycast at layer-2. > I think that ethernet supports this, but that actually one would have the > multicast bit set. I think that you'd have to do the same thing on 802.1= 1. > I guess that 15.4 has a specific support for this, or is just a choice of= a > particular unicast mac? >=20 > =20 >=20 > Dear Michael, all, >=20 > =20 >=20 > There is no specific support for anycast in 802.15.4, but the standard MA= C > layers can easily be used for anycast (often by setting multicast/broadca= st + > ACK bits). >=20 > I've see prototypes for 802.15.4 beacon-enabled [1], for a 15.4e RIT-like= MAC > [2], and for a CSL-like MAC (our own implementation uses ContikiMAC, whic= h is > similar CSL). >=20 > Should also be possible with 15.4 TSCH or even 802.11 PSM. >=20 > Doing this on an always-on link like ethernet or traditional 802.11 is mo= re > tricky because you need an agreement procedure so that only one neighbor = that > received the packet forwards it. There exist solutions for WiFi, such as = ExOR > [3], which introduced opportunistic for 802.11 back in 2005. I don't thin= k we > want to go into this though; I'd rather simply stipulate that anycast is > required at the MAC layer and possibly give some hints on how to support = it on > the most common MAC protocols. >=20 > =20 >=20 > Best, >=20 > Simon >=20 > =20 >=20 > [1] http://clarinet.u-strasbg.fr/~theoleyre/uploads/Publis/pavkovic11rpl.= pdf >=20 > [2] http://www.ti5.tuhh.de/publications/2012/EWSN12_Orinoco.pdf >=20 > [3] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ExOR_(wireless_network_protocol) >=20 > =20 >>=20 >> -- >> Michael Richardson >, >> Sandelman Software Works >> IETF ROLL WG co-chair. http://datatracker.ietf.org/wg/roll/charter/ >>=20 >>=20 >> _______________________________________________ >> Roll mailing list >> Roll@ietf.org >> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/roll > =20 >=20 > _______________________________________________ > Roll mailing list > Roll@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/roll > =20 >=20 > _______________________________________________ > Roll mailing list > Roll@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/roll >=20 >=20 > _______________________________________________ Roll mailing list > Roll@ietf.orghttps://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/roll --B_3477311931_794057 Content-type: text/html; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-transfer-encoding: quoted-printable
Hi Simon,

I think Matt's question might be in the context of an AMI applicati= on where most of the devices are powered.  I think in that use case tha= t setting the AR field as you indicated would not work well.

<= /div>
Don



From: Simon Duquennoy <simonduq@sics.se>
Reply-To:= Routing Over Low power and Lossy networks <roll@ietf.org>
Date: Monday, March 10, 2014 3:49 PM
To: Routing Over Low power and Lossy networks <roll@ietf.org>
Subject: Re: [Roll] Interest in opportunistic routing?

The context is a network where nodes ar= e duty cycled, and when you transmit anycast frame, either:
* in most cases, only one node receives the frame and sends an= ACK;
* in some cases, several nodes receive t= he same frame and send an ACK (after macSIFSPeriod). This results in occasio= nal duplicate forwarding but as discussed before this is tolerated by the pr= otocol. Note that several ACK frames sent simultaneously are not a problem, = the sender will typically be able to decode the frame through constructive i= nterference (c.f. backcast [1], a concept that's been already re-validated b= y many including us, in various contexts)

=
[1] http://conferences.sigcomm.org/hotnets/2008/p= apers/4.pdf

Best,
Simon

On Mon, Mar 10, 2014 at 10:18 PM, Gillmore= , Matthew <Matthew.Gillmore@itron.com> wrote:

Simon,

Not sur= e how that’s possible because in 802.15.4-2011 it states=

 

5.1.6.4 Use of acknowledgments and retransmis= sions

A data or MAC = command frame shall be sent with the AR field set appropriately for the fram= e. A beacon or

acknowled= gment frame shall always be sent with the AR field set to indicate no acknow= ledgment requested.

Simi= larly, any frame that is broadcast shall be sent with its AR field set to in= dicate no acknowledgment

requested.

 

<= p class=3D"MsoNormal">Even if this restriction wasn’t in = place,  broadcasting with the AR bit set is not a good idea because any= devices that hears the broadcast will respond within will cause a flood.

 

 

=

3D"Descrip=

Matthew Gillmore

Strategic Standards Architect, Office of the CTO
Mobile: +1.517.745.7350
Knowledge to Shape Your Future

3D"Description:  3D"Description:  3D"Description:  3D"Description:

 

 

From:<= /b> Roll [m= ailto:roll-bounces@ie= tf.org] On Behalf Of Simon Duquennoy
Sent: Monday, March 10, 2014 = 10:46 AM
To: Routing Over Low power and Lossy networks
Subje= ct: Re: [Roll] Interest in opportunistic routing?

 

Hi = Matt,

 

The context where anycast is some sort of acked broad= cast is with radio duty cycling, in particular low-power listening. In this = context, broadcasting consists in repeated transmissions for an entire sleep= period so that all neighbors wake up once and get the frame. What we do is we set the ACK bit and we stop th= e broadcast transmission upon receiving an ACK from any neighbor (c.f. fig 2= in the paper). The concept can be applied (with some adaptations) to differ= ent duty cycling solutions including 802.11 PSM, 802.15.4 CSL, RIT or TSCH.

<= p class=3D"MsoNormal"> 

= Thanks,

Simon=

 

 

On Mon, Mar 10, 2014 at 3:16 PM, Gillmore, Matthew &l= t;Matthew.Gillmo= re@itron.com> wrote:

= Simon,

 

In = 802.15.4,  setting the AR bit for acknowledgements on a broadcast is no= t a good idea because the network would be flooded with ACKS.

 

Matt

3D"Description:

=

Matthew Gillmore=

Strategic Standards Architect, Office of the CTO Mobile: +1.517.745.7350=
Knowledge to Shape Your Future

3D=  3D"Description:  3D"Description:  3D"Description:

=

 <= u>

 =

From: Roll [mailto:roll-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of Simon Duquennoy
Sent: Friday, March 07, 2014 = 8:47 AM
To: Routing Over Low power and Lossy networks
Subjec= t: Re: [Roll] Interest in opportunistic routing?

 

On Fri, Mar 7, 2014 at 1:37 PM, Michael Richardson <mcr+ietf@sandelman.ca> wrote:=


Simon Duquennoy <simon= duq@sics.se> wrote:
    > We have designed an opportunistic extension of RPL, wher= e the basic idea is to
    > exploit all links of the DODAG rather than the tree defi= ned by links to
    > preferred parents. We do this using anycast: transmissio= ns are intended either
    > (upwards) to any parent or (downwards) to any child havi= ng the destination
    > below in the DODAG.

This is very interesting.

    > We have a working prototype [1] in Contiki that we evalu= ated thoroughly in a
    > 135-node testbed [2]. In a 4-min packet interval data co= llection, we increase
    > the reliability of RPL from 97.4 to 99.5%, while halving= the latency (below
    > 0.5s) and radio duty cycle (below 0.5%).

    > If there is interest, we can come up with a simplified v= ersion of the design
    > presented in the paper, and propose a way to integrate i= t in RPL through only a
    > few minor additions. To be more specific, the simplified= version would use the
    > existing RPL routing tables rather than Bloom filters, a= nd would be MAC-layer
    > agnostic (the only assumption being that the MAC layer s= upports
    > anycast).

I'm not familliar with the concept of anycast at layer-2.
I think that ethernet supports this, but that actually one would have the multicast bit set.  I think that you'd have to do the same thing on 80= 2.11.
I guess that 15.4 has a specific support for this, or is just a choice of a=
particular unicast mac?

 

Dear Michael, all,=

 

<= p class=3D"MsoNormal">There is no specific support for anycast in 802.15.4, bu= t the standard MAC layers can easily be used for anycast (often by setting m= ulticast/broadcast + ACK bits).

I've see prototypes for 802.15.4 beacon-enabled [1], for a 15.4e RIT-li= ke MAC [2], and for a CSL-like MAC (our own implementation uses ContikiMAC, = which is similar CSL).

Shou= ld also be possible with 15.4 TSCH or even 802.11 PSM.

Doing this on an always-on link like ethernet or= traditional 802.11 is more tricky because you need an agreement procedure s= o that only one neighbor that received the packet forwards it. There exist solutions for WiFi, such as ExOR [3], which introduced opp= ortunistic for 802.11 back in 2005. I don't think we want to go into this th= ough; I'd rather simply stipulate that anycast is required at the MAC layer = and possibly give some hints on how to support it on the most common MAC protocols.

 

Best,

Simon

 

 


_______________________________________________
Roll mailing list
Roll@ie= tf.org
https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/roll

 


________= _______________________________________
Roll mailing list
Roll@ietf.org
https://w= ww.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/roll


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2014 Return-Path: X-Original-To: roll@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: roll@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id AB73B1A0527 for ; Mon, 10 Mar 2014 16:06:04 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.277 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.277 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, FM_FORGED_GMAIL=0.622, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id msOm0Kx_bclL for ; Mon, 10 Mar 2014 16:06:01 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail-vc0-x22f.google.com (mail-vc0-x22f.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:400c:c03::22f]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id BCAB91A0515 for ; Mon, 10 Mar 2014 16:06:00 -0700 (PDT) Received: by mail-vc0-f175.google.com with SMTP id lh14so5775904vcb.34 for ; 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2014 00:05:51 +0100 X-Google-Sender-Auth: aSSFfuJ5DEU7-oAAvFBAZ1bbn8s Message-ID: From: Simon Duquennoy To: Routing Over Low power and Lossy networks Content-Type: multipart/related; boundary=089e01182b8e4d28ac04f448a5a5 Archived-At: http://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/roll/ERw8IyCqMoJuBldlzDxp8kzBYEs Subject: Re: [Roll] Interest in opportunistic routing? X-BeenThere: roll@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list Reply-To: Routing Over Low power and Lossy networks List-Id: Routing Over Low power and Lossy networks List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 10 Mar 2014 23:06:04 -0000 --089e01182b8e4d28ac04f448a5a5 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=089e01182b8e4d28a904f448a5a4 --089e01182b8e4d28a904f448a5a4 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Hi Don, Yes, definitely. If your devices are always on then anycast is much more complex than acked broadcast. Our opportunistic extension is primarily targeting radio duty cycled networks. In always-on networks, you would need an agreement procedure to achieve anycast, such as that used by ExOr [1] with WiFi. Best regards, Simon [1] http://pdos.csail.mit.edu/papers/roofnet:exor-sigcomm05/roofnet_exor-sigcomm05.pdf On Mon, Mar 10, 2014 at 11:58 PM, Don Sturek wrote: > Hi Simon, > > I think Matt's question might be in the context of an AMI application > where most of the devices are powered. I think in that use case that > setting the AR field as you indicated would not work well. > > Don > > > > From: Simon Duquennoy > Reply-To: Routing Over Low power and Lossy networks > Date: Monday, March 10, 2014 3:49 PM > To: Routing Over Low power and Lossy networks > Subject: Re: [Roll] Interest in opportunistic routing? > > The context is a network where nodes are duty cycled, and when you > transmit anycast frame, either: > * in most cases, only one node receives the frame and sends an ACK; > * in some cases, several nodes receive the same frame and send an ACK > (after macSIFSPeriod). This results in occasional duplicate forwarding but > as discussed before this is tolerated by the protocol. Note that several > ACK frames sent simultaneously are not a problem, the sender will typically > be able to decode the frame through constructive interference (c.f. > backcast [1], a concept that's been already re-validated by many including > us, in various contexts) > > [1] http://conferences.sigcomm.org/hotnets/2008/papers/4.pdf > > Best, > Simon > > On Mon, Mar 10, 2014 at 10:18 PM, Gillmore, Matthew < > Matthew.Gillmore@itron.com> wrote: > >> Simon, >> >> >> >> Not sure how that's possible because in 802.15.4-2011 it states >> >> >> >> *5.1.6.4 Use of acknowledgments and retransmissions* >> >> A data or MAC command frame shall be sent with the AR field set >> appropriately for the frame. A beacon or >> >> acknowledgment frame shall always be sent with the AR field set to >> indicate no acknowledgment requested. >> >> Similarly, any frame that is broadcast shall be sent with its AR field >> set to indicate no acknowledgment >> >> requested. >> >> >> >> Even if this restriction wasn't in place, broadcasting with the AR bit >> set is not a good idea because any devices that hears the broadcast will >> respond within *macSIFSPeriod *will cause a flood. >> >> >> >> >> >> [image: Description: >> http://marketing.itron.com/campaign/ribbon_logo_rgb_81h.jpg] >> >> *Matthew Gillmore* >> >> Strategic Standards Architect, Office of the CTO >> Mobile: +1.517.745.7350 >> Knowledge to Shape Your Future >> >> [image: Description: >> http://marketing.itron.com/campaign/social_media_icon_twitter29.jpg] >> [image: Description: >> http://marketing.itron.com/campaign/social_media_icon_facebook29.jpg] >> [image: Description: >> http://marketing.itron.com/campaign/social_media_icon_linkedin29.jpg] >> [image: Description: >> http://marketing.itron.com/campaign/social_media_icon_youtube29.jpg] >> >> >> >> >> >> *From:* Roll [mailto:roll-bounces@ietf.org] *On Behalf Of *Simon >> Duquennoy >> *Sent:* Monday, March 10, 2014 10:46 AM >> *To:* Routing Over Low power and Lossy networks >> *Subject:* Re: [Roll] Interest in opportunistic routing? >> >> >> >> Hi Matt, >> >> >> >> The context where anycast is some sort of acked broadcast is with radio >> duty cycling, in particular low-power listening. In this context, >> broadcasting consists in repeated transmissions for an entire sleep period >> so that all neighbors wake up once and get the frame. What we do is we set >> the ACK bit and we stop the broadcast transmission upon receiving an ACK >> from any neighbor (c.f. fig 2 in the paper). The concept can be applied >> (with some adaptations) to different duty cycling solutions including >> 802.11 PSM, 802.15.4 CSL, RIT or TSCH. >> >> >> >> Thanks, >> >> Simon >> >> >> >> >> >> On Mon, Mar 10, 2014 at 3:16 PM, Gillmore, Matthew < >> Matthew.Gillmore@itron.com> wrote: >> >> Simon, >> >> >> >> In 802.15.4, setting the AR bit for acknowledgements on a broadcast is >> not a good idea because the network would be flooded with ACKS. >> >> >> >> Matt >> >> >> >> [image: Description: >> http://marketing.itron.com/campaign/ribbon_logo_rgb_81h.jpg] >> >> *Matthew Gillmore* >> >> Strategic Standards Architect, Office of the CTO >> Mobile: +1.517.745.7350 >> Knowledge to Shape Your Future >> >> [image: Description: >> http://marketing.itron.com/campaign/social_media_icon_twitter29.jpg] >> [image: Description: >> http://marketing.itron.com/campaign/social_media_icon_facebook29.jpg] >> [image: Description: >> http://marketing.itron.com/campaign/social_media_icon_linkedin29.jpg] >> [image: Description: >> http://marketing.itron.com/campaign/social_media_icon_youtube29.jpg] >> >> >> >> >> >> *From:* Roll [mailto:roll-bounces@ietf.org] *On Behalf Of *Simon >> Duquennoy >> *Sent:* Friday, March 07, 2014 8:47 AM >> *To:* Routing Over Low power and Lossy networks >> *Subject:* Re: [Roll] Interest in opportunistic routing? >> >> >> >> On Fri, Mar 7, 2014 at 1:37 PM, Michael Richardson >> wrote: >> >> >> Simon Duquennoy wrote: >> > We have designed an opportunistic extension of RPL, where the basic >> idea is to >> > exploit all links of the DODAG rather than the tree defined by >> links to >> > preferred parents. We do this using anycast: transmissions are >> intended either >> > (upwards) to any parent or (downwards) to any child having the >> destination >> > below in the DODAG. >> >> This is very interesting. >> >> > We have a working prototype [1] in Contiki that we evaluated >> thoroughly in a >> > 135-node testbed [2]. In a 4-min packet interval data collection, >> we increase >> > the reliability of RPL from 97.4 to 99.5%, while halving the >> latency (below >> > 0.5s) and radio duty cycle (below 0.5%). >> >> > If there is interest, we can come up with a simplified version of >> the design >> > presented in the paper, and propose a way to integrate it in RPL >> through only a >> > few minor additions. To be more specific, the simplified version >> would use the >> > existing RPL routing tables rather than Bloom filters, and would be >> MAC-layer >> > agnostic (the only assumption being that the MAC layer supports >> > anycast). >> >> I'm not familliar with the concept of anycast at layer-2. >> I think that ethernet supports this, but that actually one would have the >> multicast bit set. I think that you'd have to do the same thing on >> 802.11. >> I guess that 15.4 has a specific support for this, or is just a choice of >> a >> particular unicast mac? >> >> >> >> Dear Michael, all, >> >> >> >> There is no specific support for anycast in 802.15.4, but the standard >> MAC layers can easily be used for anycast (often by setting >> multicast/broadcast + ACK bits). >> >> I've see prototypes for 802.15.4 beacon-enabled [1], for a 15.4e RIT-like >> MAC [2], and for a CSL-like MAC (our own implementation uses ContikiMAC, >> which is similar CSL). >> >> Should also be possible with 15.4 TSCH or even 802.11 PSM. >> >> Doing this on an always-on link like ethernet or traditional 802.11 is >> more tricky because you need an agreement procedure so that only one >> neighbor that received the packet forwards it. There exist solutions for >> WiFi, such as ExOR [3], which introduced opportunistic for 802.11 back in >> 2005. I don't think we want to go into this though; I'd rather simply >> stipulate that anycast is required at the MAC layer and possibly give some >> hints on how to support it on the most common MAC protocols. >> >> >> >> Best, >> >> Simon >> >> >> >> [1] >> http://clarinet.u-strasbg.fr/~theoleyre/uploads/Publis/pavkovic11rpl.pdf >> >> [2] http://www.ti5.tuhh.de/publications/2012/EWSN12_Orinoco.pdf >> >> [3] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ExOR_(wireless_network_protocol) >> >> >> >> >> -- >> Michael Richardson , Sandelman Software Works >> IETF ROLL WG co-chair. http://datatracker.ietf.org/wg/roll/charter/ >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Roll mailing list >> Roll@ietf.org >> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/roll >> >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Roll mailing list >> Roll@ietf.org >> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/roll >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Roll mailing list >> Roll@ietf.org >> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/roll >> >> > _______________________________________________ Roll mailing list > Roll@ietf.orghttps://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/roll > > _______________________________________________ > Roll mailing list > Roll@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/roll > > --089e01182b8e4d28a904f448a5a4 Content-Type: text/html; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Hi Don,

Yes, definitely. If your device= s are always on then anycast is much more complex than acked broadcast.
Our opportunistic extension is primarily targeting radio duty cycled= networks.
In always-on networks, you would need an agreement procedure to achiev= e anycast, such as that used by ExOr [1] with WiFi.

Best regards,
Simon




On Mon, Mar 10, 2014 at 11:58 PM, Don Sturek <d.sturek@att.ne= t> wrote:
Hi Simon,

=
I think Matt's question might be in the context of an AMI application w= here most of the devices are powered.  I think in that use case that s= etting the AR field as you indicated would not work well.

Don



From: Simon Duquennoy <simonduq@sics.se>
= Reply-To: Routing Over Low power a= nd Lossy networks <ro= ll@ietf.org>
Date: Monday, March 10, 2014 3:49 = PM
To: Routing Over Low power a= nd Lossy networks <ro= ll@ietf.org>
Subject: Re: [Roll] Interest in op= portunistic routing?

The context is a network where nodes are duty cycled, and whe= n you transmit anycast frame, either:
* in most cases, only one node receives the fram= e and sends an ACK;
* in some cases, severa= l nodes receive the same frame and send an ACK (after macSIFSPeriod). This = results in occasional duplicate forwarding but as discussed before this is = tolerated by the protocol. Note that several ACK frames sent simultaneously= are not a problem, the sender will typically be able to decode the frame t= hrough constructive interference (c.f. backcast [1], a concept that's b= een already re-validated by many including us, in various contexts)

[1] http://conferences.sigcomm.org/hotnets/2008/papers/4.pdf

Best,
= Simon

On Mon= , Mar 10, 2014 at 10:18 PM, Gillmore, Matthew <Matthew.Gillmore@i= tron.com> wrote:
Simon,

=  

Not sure how that’s possible because i= n 802.15.4-2011 it states

 

5.1.6.4 Use of acknowledgments and retransmi= ssions

A data or MAC comm= and frame shall be sent with the AR field set appropriately for the frame. = A beacon or

acknowledgment fra= me shall always be sent with the AR field set to indicate no acknowledgment= requested.

Similarly, any fra= me that is broadcast shall be sent with its AR field set to indicate no ack= nowledgment

requested.

 

Even if this restriction wasn’t in place,  bro= adcasting with the AR bit set is not a good idea because any devices that h= ears the broadcast will respond within m= acSIFSPeriod will cause a flood.

 

 

Matthew Gillmore

Strategic Standards Architect, Office of the CTO
Mobile: +1.517.745.7350
Knowledge to Shape Your Future

3D"Description:

3D"Description:  3D"Description:  3D"Descri=  3D"Description:

 

 

From: Roll [mailto:roll-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of Simon Duquennoy
Sent: Monday, March 10, 2014 = 10:46 AM
To: Routing Over Low power and Lossy networks
Subj= ect: Re: [Roll] Interest in opportunistic routing?=

 

= Hi Matt,

 <= /p>

The context where anycast is some sort of ac= ked broadcast is with radio duty cycling, in particular low-power listening= . In this context, broadcasting consists in repeated transmissions for an e= ntire sleep period so that all neighbors wake up once and get the frame. What we do is we set the ACK bit and we stop th= e broadcast transmission upon receiving an ACK from any neighbor (c.f. fig = 2 in the paper). The concept can be applied (with some adaptations) to diff= erent duty cycling solutions including 802.11 PSM, 802.15.4 CSL, RIT or TSCH.

<= p class=3D"MsoNormal"> 

Thanks,

Simon

 

=

 

On Mon, Mar 10, 2014 at 3:16 PM, Gillmore, Mat= thew <Ma= tthew.Gillmore@itron.com> wrote:

Simon,

 

In 802.15.4,  setting the AR bit for ac= knowledgements on a broadcast is not a good idea because the network would be flooded with ACKS.

 

Matt

 

Matthew Gillmore

Strategic Standards Architect, Office of the CTO
Mobile: +1.517.745.7350=
Knowledge to Shape Your Future

3D"Description:=

3D"Description:  3D"Description:  3D"Descri=  3D"Description:

 

 

From: Roll [mailto:roll-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of Simon Duquennoy
Sent: Friday, March 07, 2014 = 8:47 AM
To: Routing Over Low power and Lossy networks
Subje= ct: Re: [Roll] Interest in opportunistic routing?<= /p>

 

On Fri, Mar 7, 2014 at 1:37 PM, Michael Richardson <mcr+ietf@sandelman.ca&= gt; wrote:


Simon Duquennoy <s= imonduq@sics.se> wrote:
    > We have designed an opportunistic extension of RPL, wher= e the basic idea is to
    > exploit all links of the DODAG rather than the tree defi= ned by links to
    > preferred parents. We do this using anycast: transmissio= ns are intended either
    > (upwards) to any parent or (downwards) to any child havi= ng the destination
    > below in the DODAG.

This is very interesting.

    > We have a working prototype [1] in Contiki that we evalu= ated thoroughly in a
    > 135-node testbed [2]. In a 4-min packet interval data co= llection, we increase
    > the reliability of RPL from 97.4 to 99.5%, while halving= the latency (below
    > 0.5s) and radio duty cycle (below 0.5%).

    > If there is interest, we can come up with a simplified v= ersion of the design
    > presented in the paper, and propose a way to integrate i= t in RPL through only a
    > few minor additions. To be more specific, the simplified= version would use the
    > existing RPL routing tables rather than Bloom filters, a= nd would be MAC-layer
    > agnostic (the only assumption being that the MAC layer s= upports
    > anycast).

I'm not familliar with the concept of anycast at layer-2.
I think that ethernet supports this, but that actually one would have the multicast bit set.  I think that you'd have to do the same thing o= n 802.11.
I guess that 15.4 has a specific support for this, or is just a choice of a=
particular unicast mac?

 =

Dear Michael, all,

 

There is no specific support for anycast in 802.15.4, but the standard MAC = layers can easily be used for anycast (often by setting multicast/broadcast= + ACK bits).

I've s= ee prototypes for 802.15.4 beacon-enabled [1], for a 15.4e RIT-like MAC [2]= , and for a CSL-like MAC (our own implementation uses ContikiMAC, which is = similar CSL).

Should also be possible with 15.4 TSCH or= even 802.11 PSM.

Doing = this on an always-on link like ethernet or traditional 802.11 is more trick= y because you need an agreement procedure so that only one neighbor that re= ceived the packet forwards it. There exist solutions for WiFi, such as ExOR [3], which introduced opp= ortunistic for 802.11 back in 2005. I don't think we want to go into th= is though; I'd rather simply stipulate that anycast is required at the = MAC layer and possibly give some hints on how to support it on the most common MAC protocols.

 

Best,

Simon<= u>

 

 <= u>


<= span>--
Michael Richardson <mcr+IETF@sandelman.ca>, Sandelman Software Works
IETF ROLL WG co-chair.    http://datatracker.ietf.org= /wg/roll/charter/


_______________________________________________
Roll mailing list
Roll@ietf.org
https://www.ietf.org/mailman/l= istinfo/roll

 


_______________________________________________
Roll mailing list
Rol= l@ietf.org
https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/roll

 


= _______________________________________________
Roll mailing list
Rol= l@ietf.org
https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/roll


_______________________________________________ Roll mailing list Roll@ietf.orghttps://w= ww.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/roll

_______________________________________________
Roll mailing list
Roll@ietf.org
ht= tps://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/roll


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mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id R8gn1wbmJi78 for ; Tue, 11 Mar 2014 07:38:27 -0700 (PDT) Received: from relais-inet.francetelecom.com (relais-ias243.francetelecom.com [80.12.204.243]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 783E41A046F for ; Tue, 11 Mar 2014 07:38:27 -0700 (PDT) Received: from omfeda06.si.francetelecom.fr (unknown [xx.xx.xx.199]) by omfeda12.si.francetelecom.fr (ESMTP service) with ESMTP id B37173B46C0; Tue, 11 Mar 2014 15:38:20 +0100 (CET) Received: from Exchangemail-eme1.itn.ftgroup (unknown [10.114.1.183]) by omfeda06.si.francetelecom.fr (ESMTP service) with ESMTP id 94F6DC8087; Tue, 11 Mar 2014 15:38:20 +0100 (CET) Received: from PEXCVZYM13.corporate.adroot.infra.ftgroup ([fe80::cc7e:e40b:42ef:164e]) by PEXCVZYH02.corporate.adroot.infra.ftgroup ([::1]) with mapi id 14.03.0174.001; Tue, 11 Mar 2014 15:38:19 +0100 From: To: "roll@ietf.org" , Michael Richardson Thread-Topic: draft on selective DIS Thread-Index: Ac89NbVI4yzKE+w0S+iGnCL8fw0RlA== Date: Tue, 11 Mar 2014 14:38:19 +0000 Message-ID: <7148_1394548700_531F1FDC_7148_350_4_8F1D83ADCC1AC94186A867BEE9B7D91306E039B6@PEXCVZYM13.corporate.adroot.infra.ftgroup> Accept-Language: fr-FR, en-US Content-Language: fr-FR X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-originating-ip: [10.197.38.4] Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="_000_8F1D83ADCC1AC94186A867BEE9B7D91306E039B6PEXCVZYM13corpo_" MIME-Version: 1.0 X-PMX-Version: 6.0.3.2322014, Antispam-Engine: 2.7.2.2107409, Antispam-Data: 2013.11.19.63615 Archived-At: http://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/roll/XC43S5J5NniNl3hHnblJxnj5M8Y Subject: [Roll] draft on selective DIS X-BeenThere: roll@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list Reply-To: Routing Over Low power and Lossy networks List-Id: Routing Over Low power and Lossy networks List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 11 Mar 2014 14:38:30 -0000 --_000_8F1D83ADCC1AC94186A867BEE9B7D91306E039B6PEXCVZYM13corpo_ Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hello Michael, all, Following your asking about pending drafts related to RPL, here is an expir= ed draft that I intend to revive http://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-goyal-roll-dis-modifications-01 It basically consists in enriching the DIS a little bit, by allowing it to = be more selective. One benefit is that it saves a lot of energy in a dense environment when a = new node joins an established network. Some slides were presented at an ear= lier ROLL meeting: http://www.ietf.org/proceedings/80/slides/roll-2.pdf Orange and Elster/Coronis have an implementation. I'm looking at producing = hard data measured on our validation platform in the next few months. Best regards, Dominique ___________________________________________________________________________= ______________________________________________ Ce message et ses pieces jointes peuvent contenir des informations confiden= tielles ou privilegiees et ne doivent donc pas etre diffuses, exploites ou copies sans autorisation. Si vous avez recu= ce message par erreur, veuillez le signaler a l'expediteur et le detruire ainsi que les pieces jointes. Les messages el= ectroniques etant susceptibles d'alteration, Orange decline toute responsabilite si ce message a ete altere, deforme ou = falsifie. Merci. This message and its attachments may contain confidential or privileged inf= ormation that may be protected by law; they should not be distributed, used or copied without authorisation. If you have received this email in error, please notify the sender and dele= te this message and its attachments. As emails may be altered, Orange is not liable for messages that have been = modified, changed or falsified. Thank you. --_000_8F1D83ADCC1AC94186A867BEE9B7D91306E039B6PEXCVZYM13corpo_ Content-Type: text/html; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

Hello Michael, all,

 

Following your asking about pen= ding drafts related to RPL, here is an expired draft that I intend to reviv= e

http://tools.ietf.org/html/dr= aft-goyal-roll-dis-modifications-01

It basically consists in enrich= ing the DIS a little bit, by allowing it to be more selective.

One benefit is that it saves a = lot of energy in a dense environment when a new node joins an established n= etwork. Some slides were presented at an earlier ROLL meeting:

http://www.ietf.org/proceedings/80/slides= /roll-2.pdf

Orange and Elster/Coronis have = an implementation. I’m looking at producing hard data measured on our= validation platform in the next few months.

Best regards,=

 

Dominique

 

______________________________________________________________________=
___________________________________________________

Ce message et ses pieces jointes peuvent contenir des informations confiden=
tielles ou privilegiees et ne doivent donc
pas etre diffuses, exploites ou copies sans autorisation. Si vous avez recu=
 ce message par erreur, veuillez le signaler
a l'expediteur et le detruire ainsi que les pieces jointes. Les messages el=
ectroniques etant susceptibles d'alteration,
Orange decline toute responsabilite si ce message a ete altere, deforme ou =
falsifie. Merci.

This message and its attachments may contain confidential or privileged inf=
ormation that may be protected by law;
they should not be distributed, used or copied without authorisation.
If you have received this email in error, please notify the sender and dele=
te this message and its attachments.
As emails may be altered, Orange is not liable for messages that have been =
modified, changed or falsified.
Thank you.
--_000_8F1D83ADCC1AC94186A867BEE9B7D91306E039B6PEXCVZYM13corpo_-- From nobody Tue Mar 11 17:04:02 2014 Return-Path: X-Original-To: roll@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: roll@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4B11B1A0883 for ; Tue, 11 Mar 2014 17:04:01 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.377 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.377 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, FM_FORGED_GMAIL=0.622, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id iDQdcmCO8O6o for ; Tue, 11 Mar 2014 17:03:59 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail-vc0-x22e.google.com (mail-vc0-x22e.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:400c:c03::22e]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4CE3C1A088B for ; Tue, 11 Mar 2014 17:03:59 -0700 (PDT) Received: by mail-vc0-f174.google.com with SMTP id ld13so4134174vcb.33 for ; Tue, 11 Mar 2014 17:03:53 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=googlemail.com; s=20120113; h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:date:message-id:subject:from:to :cc:content-type; bh=k+yoZvc5yUie6v04g8WE8jRYIEhUqNvfUeqPylPEGtE=; b=XkwPhYo+RK7OOJBhR142bqOpS2YxrdyeX2p+V040IkKKpKOQpvaPbyd92j5VV582hv moqB3UOiNZDHt0Q72wrsZS5XHdY6in0BZpNxxa3YmZiZ6kys29ULwANyesvUKpnNFzJt +KlAB6GPHogSGsBz9Lok6LSAzmhg4bQYH+GuKE/9qsg8IeHMmfayQxx1XmtgrmKJjUOQ pE1dLSZ49GhHBD22Foofbveq/mWnbZbd25NLcswx5sCUxBOno1rsH0rif9Q+Dp13aHdZ 48ghO+VJ5cOCvEqLsduXvQW/AV7Ensm3BpWCniK5VspVnvvJkZE74nTMmQffBklVhHjJ e62w== MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Received: by 10.221.74.65 with SMTP id yv1mr19495vcb.31.1394582633249; Tue, 11 Mar 2014 17:03:53 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.221.16.3 with HTTP; Tue, 11 Mar 2014 17:03:53 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: <7148_1394548700_531F1FDC_7148_350_4_8F1D83ADCC1AC94186A867BEE9B7D91306E039B6@PEXCVZYM13.corporate.adroot.infra.ftgroup> References: <7148_1394548700_531F1FDC_7148_350_4_8F1D83ADCC1AC94186A867BEE9B7D91306E039B6@PEXCVZYM13.corporate.adroot.infra.ftgroup> Date: Tue, 11 Mar 2014 21:03:53 -0300 Message-ID: From: Ines Robles To: Routing Over Low power and Lossy networks Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=001a1136563876fef404f45d92eb Archived-At: http://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/roll/AUFUU9wbRJt5cNO26FOn0Cflg0Q Cc: Michael Richardson Subject: Re: [Roll] draft on selective DIS X-BeenThere: roll@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list Reply-To: Routing Over Low power and Lossy networks List-Id: Routing Over Low power and Lossy networks List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 12 Mar 2014 00:04:01 -0000 --001a1136563876fef404f45d92eb Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 *Hi Dominique,Thank you for bring this up.Earlier threads about it:Presentation version 00: http://www.ietf.org/mail-archive/web/roll/current/msg06411.html Regarding DIS Modifications draft: http://www.ietf.org/mail-archive/web/roll/current/msg06488.html Thanks and Regards,* 2014-03-11 11:38 GMT-03:00 : > Hello Michael, all, > > > > Following your asking about pending drafts related to RPL, here is an > expired draft that I intend to revive > > http://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-goyal-roll-dis-modifications-01 > > It basically consists in enriching the DIS a little bit, by allowing it to > be more selective. > > One benefit is that it saves a lot of energy in a dense environment when a > new node joins an established network. Some slides were presented at an > earlier ROLL meeting: > > http://www.ietf.org/proceedings/80/slides/roll-2.pdf > > Orange and Elster/Coronis have an implementation. I'm looking at producing > hard data measured on our validation platform in the next few months. > > Best regards, > > > > Dominique > > > > _________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________ > > Ce message et ses pieces jointes peuvent contenir des informations confidentielles ou privilegiees et ne doivent donc > pas etre diffuses, exploites ou copies sans autorisation. Si vous avez recu ce message par erreur, veuillez le signaler > a l'expediteur et le detruire ainsi que les pieces jointes. Les messages electroniques etant susceptibles d'alteration, > Orange decline toute responsabilite si ce message a ete altere, deforme ou falsifie. Merci. > > This message and its attachments may contain confidential or privileged information that may be protected by law; > they should not be distributed, used or copied without authorisation. > If you have received this email in error, please notify the sender and delete this message and its attachments. > As emails may be altered, Orange is not liable for messages that have been modified, changed or falsified. > Thank you. > > > _______________________________________________ > Roll mailing list > Roll@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/roll > > --001a1136563876fef404f45d92eb Content-Type: text/html; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

Hi Dominique,


Thank you= for bring this up.


Earlier t= hreads about it

:

Pre= sentation version 00: http://www.ietf= .org/mail-archive/web/roll/current/msg06411.html

= Regarding = DIS Modifications draft: http://www.i= etf.org/mail-archive/web/roll/current/msg06488.html


Thanks an= d Regards,


2014-03-11 11= :38 GMT-03:00 <dominique.barthel@orange.com>:

Hello Michael, all,

 

Following your asking about pen= ding drafts related to RPL, here is an expired draft that I intend to reviv= e

http://tool= s.ietf.org/html/draft-goyal-roll-dis-modifications-01

It basically consists in enrich= ing the DIS a little bit, by allowing it to be more selective.

One benefit is that it saves a = lot of energy in a dense environment when a new node joins an established n= etwork. Some slides were presented at an earlier ROLL meeting:

http://www.ietf.org/pro= ceedings/80/slides/roll-2.pdf

Orange and Elster/Coronis have = an implementation. I’m looking at producing hard data measured on our= validation platform in the next few months.

Best regards,

 

Dominique

 

______________________________________________________________________=
___________________________________________________

Ce message et ses pieces jointes peuvent contenir des informations confiden=
tielles ou privilegiees et ne doivent donc
pas etre diffuses, exploites ou copies sans autorisation. Si vous avez recu=
 ce message par erreur, veuillez le signaler
a l'expediteur et le detruire ainsi que les pieces jointes. Les message=
s electroniques etant susceptibles d'alteration,
Orange decline toute responsabilite si ce message a ete altere, deforme ou =
falsifie. Merci.

This message and its attachments may contain confidential or privileged inf=
ormation that may be protected by law;
they should not be distributed, used or copied without authorisation.
If you have received this email in error, please notify the sender and dele=
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--001a1136563876fef404f45d92eb-- From nobody Wed Mar 12 05:37:47 2014 Return-Path: X-Original-To: roll@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: roll@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id D7B161A096E for ; Wed, 12 Mar 2014 05:37:44 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -10.048 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-10.048 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, RP_MATCHES_RCVD=-0.547, SPF_PASS=-0.001, USER_IN_DEF_DKIM_WL=-7.5] autolearn=ham Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id boqm8TA4boqM for ; Wed, 12 Mar 2014 05:37:43 -0700 (PDT) Received: from alln-iport-1.cisco.com (alln-iport-1.cisco.com [173.37.142.88]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 55FBD1A0958 for ; Wed, 12 Mar 2014 05:37:43 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/simple; d=cisco.com; i=@cisco.com; l=324; q=dns/txt; s=iport; t=1394627857; x=1395837457; h=from:to:subject:date:message-id: content-transfer-encoding:mime-version; bh=H/lLWrvQIDz76sH6ysK3o7LJ22ZwAMFb06biDRvRs98=; b=XWI3yy3tChP9ozZHJhthlRCPZm8ebLwTkLQD06hTZoFYQ00qSCkNqNav lKnoVRGhTbPfUYZk4KuwMG9+b7Kf1/Pe9d3ys443t0BqgXEFbvJc0iVhH rRRJrGDmLHvo75cHabOr6l2OWQjK3KE2TIWb+WK+4Jy/508Rn4t5eoXFg Q=; X-IronPort-Anti-Spam-Filtered: true X-IronPort-Anti-Spam-Result: AgsFAItUIFOtJV2c/2dsb2JhbABagwY7V8FRgRsWdIInAQQ6UQEqFEImAQQBGodxDdFjEwSOK4NcgRQEqnKDLYIr X-IronPort-AV: E=Sophos;i="4.97,637,1389744000"; d="scan'208";a="26848019" Received: from rcdn-core-5.cisco.com ([173.37.93.156]) by alln-iport-1.cisco.com with ESMTP; 12 Mar 2014 12:37:37 +0000 Received: from xhc-rcd-x07.cisco.com (xhc-rcd-x07.cisco.com [173.37.183.81]) by rcdn-core-5.cisco.com (8.14.5/8.14.5) with ESMTP id s2CCbb2k023551 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=AES128-SHA bits=128 verify=FAIL); Wed, 12 Mar 2014 12:37:37 GMT Received: from xmb-rcd-x01.cisco.com ([169.254.1.222]) by xhc-rcd-x07.cisco.com ([173.37.183.81]) with mapi id 14.03.0123.003; Wed, 12 Mar 2014 07:37:36 -0500 From: "Pascal Thubert (pthubert)" To: roll , Michael Richardson Thread-Topic: interest in asymmetrical links support? Thread-Index: Ac8976+kJP64IxV2Qgabv6djINwXuQ== Date: Wed, 12 Mar 2014 12:37:35 +0000 Deferred-Delivery: Wed, 12 Mar 2014 12:37:00 +0000 Message-ID: Accept-Language: fr-FR, en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-originating-ip: [10.89.3.220] Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable MIME-Version: 1.0 Archived-At: http://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/roll/z0mPXCGSspZlX7tkw8GvrnRQT2g Subject: [Roll] interest in asymmetrical links support? X-BeenThere: roll@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list Reply-To: Routing Over Low power and Lossy networks List-Id: Routing Over Low power and Lossy networks List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 12 Mar 2014 12:37:45 -0000 Hello Michael: This is another pending work related to RPL, specifically on asym. links op= erations. The work was triggered by a discussion with Don Sturek, but failed to attra= ct WG attention at the time. I can revive it if interests grows? https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-thubert-roll-asymlink-02 Pascal From nobody Wed Mar 12 06:20:25 2014 Return-Path: X-Original-To: roll@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: roll@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id ACD821A0980 for ; Wed, 12 Mar 2014 06:20:21 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.999 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.999 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001] autolearn=ham Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id cCiGJYJVbF7i for ; Wed, 12 Mar 2014 06:20:19 -0700 (PDT) Received: from nm21-vm3.access.bullet.mail.gq1.yahoo.com (nm21-vm3.access.bullet.mail.gq1.yahoo.com [216.39.63.79]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id D8DCE1A0984 for ; Wed, 12 Mar 2014 06:20:19 -0700 (PDT) Received: from [216.39.60.170] by nm21.access.bullet.mail.gq1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 12 Mar 2014 13:20:14 -0000 Received: from [67.195.22.113] by tm6.access.bullet.mail.gq1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 12 Mar 2014 13:20:14 -0000 Received: from [127.0.0.1] by smtp115.sbc.mail.gq1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 12 Mar 2014 13:20:13 -0000 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=att.net; s=s1024; t=1394630413; bh=3BwpEpF4+betfNgVu28PN14iBlfgGL9CBtMOwvXzLug=; h=X-Yahoo-Newman-Id:X-Yahoo-Newman-Property:X-YMail-OSG:X-Yahoo-SMTP:X-Rocket-Received:User-Agent:Date:Subject:From:To:Message-ID:Thread-Topic:Mime-version:Content-type:Content-transfer-encoding; b=ESDlLP/ctJAXItBjAi7TudYp9kLuUArnNnzAmlaTwVRKP9mJl/3LYaTEzNfILddFpc8pLC85GWrS1skCc81lnufw6BfTd9GyUwwexhmpKL403V0m4p54jeuMAwdsVSb9xKFYEEL5ssKPyK5m6rTi7jktGGpgSbg5iDAACdh13aA= X-Yahoo-Newman-Id: 986932.82056.bm@smtp115.sbc.mail.gq1.yahoo.com X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: ymail-3 X-YMail-OSG: dh9_SfwVM1mneXSuczoBgkZxw99SIc4kEOIuoyHIiqfPx_g QnZenK4HJHs_n1FrJqLU5FmXcZwYKlMVJBcxkACoB5urjdrFwKLjlU9RRS.v Zg0O_uks8fzkceww0AhokT.zT7lvAv07U6DrHJ4hywJwEJ7psEglBdAWDLeF 1VYbTEW3._n5Gf8gAcF_ldXAP3XqkSGxitf_V4wFyhdkVA68X29o8xKMaDdx 1OoM79zxx7hhqyWXXcsuygbM3_6G_Eiqf3PVdnBwJqb6brGO88fl7EilOMPY StgYS6XrM8Rk22k3rN1ecNmAf7CSwjt.70UfKkpnURiD19oRI4jmoBVjl7JZ cNQsZkzDHH3zvxvJ8hcCCnXO9gz2oj5PsOsrT36t0xC32fiONOlAbNCGq.OM _iBHWnS25CSaUNJ65yEldeVIO2C9TsWDttrzjicfLXRQ1cbR.crJoutqAJMF MDQWe_ZJJcp2UvG4HxvJ9vVvWv_szAfc9jNcbZucwLknUB7XxzNyRfaLZyqO wlV4WKewdCWl5eZCUZiExlR7zaN43ZnS._uDxiznmUj3KvBjdcTFLJUbT2.r tOnfP X-Yahoo-SMTP: fvjol_aswBAraSJvMLe2r1XTzhBhbFxY8q8c3jo- X-Rocket-Received: from [10.0.0.4] (d.sturek@69.111.214.227 with plain [67.195.15.5]) by smtp115.sbc.mail.gq1.yahoo.com with SMTP; 12 Mar 2014 06:20:13 -0700 PDT User-Agent: Microsoft-MacOutlook/14.3.9.131030 Date: Wed, 12 Mar 2014 06:20:10 -0700 From: Don Sturek To: Routing Over Low power and Lossy networks , Michael Richardson Message-ID: Thread-Topic: [Roll] interest in asymmetrical links support? Mime-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit Archived-At: http://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/roll/luxG-0V5ob2NgQ9O9J1jg1liGfc Subject: Re: [Roll] interest in asymmetrical links support? X-BeenThere: roll@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list Reply-To: Routing Over Low power and Lossy networks List-Id: Routing Over Low power and Lossy networks List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 12 Mar 2014 13:20:21 -0000 Hi Pascal, In ZigBee IP, we use Mesh Link Establishment (MLE) to exchange ETX information between one hop neighbors then pruned the neighbor table to remove asymmetric links. Don On 3/12/14 5:37 AM, "Pascal Thubert (pthubert)" wrote: >Hello Michael: > >This is another pending work related to RPL, specifically on asym. links >operations. >The work was triggered by a discussion with Don Sturek, but failed to >attract WG attention at the time. >I can revive it if interests grows? > >https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-thubert-roll-asymlink-02 > >Pascal > >_______________________________________________ >Roll mailing list >Roll@ietf.org >https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/roll From nobody Wed Mar 12 13:54:47 2014 Return-Path: X-Original-To: roll@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: roll@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 116881A0785 for ; Wed, 12 Mar 2014 13:54:46 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: 1.019 X-Spam-Level: * X-Spam-Status: No, score=1.019 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, FH_RELAY_NODNS=1.451, RDNS_NONE=0.793, SPF_SOFTFAIL=0.665, T_TVD_MIME_NO_HEADERS=0.01] autolearn=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id CmDeLb64t8bv for ; Wed, 12 Mar 2014 13:54:45 -0700 (PDT) Received: from tuna.sandelman.ca (unknown [IPv6:2607:f0b0:f:3:216:3eff:fe7c:d1f3]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id F147A1A0664 for ; Wed, 12 Mar 2014 13:54:44 -0700 (PDT) Received: from sandelman.ca (desk.marajade.sandelman.ca [209.87.252.247]) by tuna.sandelman.ca (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9F9272002F; Wed, 12 Mar 2014 18:13:38 -0400 (EDT) Received: by sandelman.ca (Postfix, from userid 179) id B5CE5647C9; Wed, 12 Mar 2014 16:54:38 -0400 (EDT) Received: from sandelman.ca (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by sandelman.ca (Postfix) with ESMTP id A01F3647C8; Wed, 12 Mar 2014 16:54:38 -0400 (EDT) From: Michael Richardson To: "Pascal Thubert \(pthubert\)" In-Reply-To: References: X-Mailer: MH-E 8.2; nmh 1.3-dev; GNU Emacs 23.4.1 X-Face: $\n1pF)h^`}$H>Hk{L"x@)JS7<%Az}5RyS@k9X%29-lHB$Ti.V>2bi.~ehC0; <'$9xN5Ub# z!G,p`nR&p7Fz@^UXIn156S8.~^@MJ*mMsD7=QFeq%AL4m Sender: mcr@sandelman.ca Archived-At: http://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/roll/ulZYuf0PuC8_9ELrBqury61XrfQ Cc: roll Subject: Re: [Roll] interest in asymmetrical links support? X-BeenThere: roll@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list Reply-To: Routing Over Low power and Lossy networks List-Id: Routing Over Low power and Lossy networks List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 12 Mar 2014 20:54:46 -0000 --=-=-= Pascal Thubert (pthubert) wrote: > This is another pending work related to RPL, specifically on asym. links operations. > The work was triggered by a discussion with Don Sturek, but failed to > attract WG attention at the time. > I can revive it if interests grows? > https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-thubert-roll-asymlink-02 My impression is that we got stuck on asymmetric link issues because many were unclear how they were going to get ETX, period, let alone assymetric ETX. I think that MLE makes some of this clearer. -- Michael Richardson , Sandelman Software Works IETF ROLL WG co-chair. http://datatracker.ietf.org/wg/roll/charter/ --=-=-= Content-Type: application/pgp-signature -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.4.12 (GNU/Linux) iQCVAwUBUyDJjoqHRg3pndX9AQK+/QP8CirBsYK7gVQKck0g4loGZdd76moJowd/ mZifSlK0aNIdRtfbajA2HOtwOu/uXYTQ4hCJR3sPdNdcaGlFJiK9gaQyV0sdbiSz UFsFbpjNDGWX9dur6YcLYP4E5Upg4z9lVJ7vXw4QNK+1VQU0x4LLmL0mhKvQnR25 qrg3S8T2y/E= =YzIz -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --=-=-=-- From nobody Wed Mar 12 13:56:11 2014 Return-Path: X-Original-To: roll@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: roll@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0C1A71A0747 for ; Wed, 12 Mar 2014 13:56:10 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: 1.019 X-Spam-Level: * X-Spam-Status: No, score=1.019 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, FH_RELAY_NODNS=1.451, RDNS_NONE=0.793, SPF_SOFTFAIL=0.665, T_TVD_MIME_NO_HEADERS=0.01] autolearn=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id qKOO3oTAjGwg for ; Wed, 12 Mar 2014 13:56:09 -0700 (PDT) Received: from tuna.sandelman.ca (unknown [IPv6:2607:f0b0:f:3:216:3eff:fe7c:d1f3]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0AF631A0488 for ; Wed, 12 Mar 2014 13:56:08 -0700 (PDT) Received: from sandelman.ca (obiwan.sandelman.ca [IPv6:2607:f0b0:f:2::247]) by tuna.sandelman.ca (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8FCA12002F; Wed, 12 Mar 2014 18:15:02 -0400 (EDT) Received: by sandelman.ca (Postfix, from userid 179) id AFAA4647C9; Wed, 12 Mar 2014 16:56:02 -0400 (EDT) Received: from sandelman.ca (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by sandelman.ca (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9EEB0647C8; Wed, 12 Mar 2014 16:56:02 -0400 (EDT) From: Michael Richardson To: Don Sturek In-Reply-To: References: X-Mailer: MH-E 8.2; nmh 1.3-dev; GNU Emacs 23.4.1 X-Face: $\n1pF)h^`}$H>Hk{L"x@)JS7<%Az}5RyS@k9X%29-lHB$Ti.V>2bi.~ehC0; <'$9xN5Ub# z!G,p`nR&p7Fz@^UXIn156S8.~^@MJ*mMsD7=QFeq%AL4m Sender: mcr@sandelman.ca Archived-At: http://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/roll/0cbtiemFGCi8LDCkRpm3AuiL1uk Cc: Routing Over Low power and Lossy networks Subject: Re: [Roll] interest in asymmetrical links support? X-BeenThere: roll@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list Reply-To: Routing Over Low power and Lossy networks List-Id: Routing Over Low power and Lossy networks List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 12 Mar 2014 20:56:10 -0000 --=-=-= Don Sturek wrote: > In ZigBee IP, we use Mesh Link Establishment (MLE) to exchange ETX > information between one hop neighbors then pruned the neighbor table to > remove asymmetric links. It would be interesting if anonimized complete data (with the asymmetries) from some actual deploy could be made available to the research people... -- Michael Richardson , Sandelman Software Works IETF ROLL WG co-chair. http://datatracker.ietf.org/wg/roll/charter/ --=-=-= Content-Type: application/pgp-signature -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.4.12 (GNU/Linux) iQCVAwUBUyDJ4oqHRg3pndX9AQJzMQP7ByenXm3e1SGk7XrK33sZt1CNuRLR9Ll0 SEWB8XqPMIOvrT/3VvytLVqDmDIW80ohF/17cMAevfVYPLUlCkJ9I2WFYZdc8Ntx Elige/E92H6GdvmsizVguHhyUcBvtf8f0LfGhZJNiOHaMcjGFgn0NypeO58XU6vV rwLewkxk8o8= =Qmpr -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --=-=-=-- From nobody Wed Mar 12 14:24:29 2014 Return-Path: X-Original-To: roll@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: roll@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 233661A074A for ; Wed, 12 Mar 2014 14:24:28 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.999 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.999 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001] autolearn=ham Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id O3kB3f07VVUo for ; Wed, 12 Mar 2014 14:24:26 -0700 (PDT) Received: from nm19-vm7.access.bullet.mail.gq1.yahoo.com (nm19-vm7.access.bullet.mail.gq1.yahoo.com [216.39.63.197]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id A0DE71A073B for ; Wed, 12 Mar 2014 14:24:26 -0700 (PDT) Received: from [216.39.60.169] by nm19.access.bullet.mail.gq1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 12 Mar 2014 21:24:20 -0000 Received: from [67.195.23.147] by tm5.access.bullet.mail.gq1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 12 Mar 2014 21:24:20 -0000 Received: from [127.0.0.1] by smtp119.sbc.mail.gq1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 12 Mar 2014 21:24:20 -0000 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=att.net; s=s1024; t=1394659460; bh=KU/bx1nuEZgL5TyJ/gaSgqRBGmdwi44dgX+ts7EfD4I=; h=X-Yahoo-Newman-Id:X-Yahoo-Newman-Property:X-YMail-OSG:X-Yahoo-SMTP:X-Rocket-Received:User-Agent:Date:Subject:From:To:Message-ID:Thread-Topic:References:In-Reply-To:Mime-version:Content-type:Content-transfer-encoding; b=GwCuuqDRrhtdCYFSGrETi+WQmtvVPkUMpvgP/cJnlg2vJqclpn7vv56ov1HjJ/aDeETD25Cl4+R+0+yy2g6RbARiqqRXqj2JdxqpVnNcelrlJroPRpWgOHHM18yvf+pFZAMsFVvUkJTN8wggxsz1vE/NOQIebVAtNyo+XHdY57g= X-Yahoo-Newman-Id: 545617.25038.bm@smtp119.sbc.mail.gq1.yahoo.com X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: ymail-3 X-YMail-OSG: j4vjfOAVM1lGWCzI8xxvq5J98c.8HzzsGuvYHxnnib1NlSH _MbnN9W4EBCs8uuCn.91u08_XHuyBa.vK6.C9c1OBMqUwxC.NoYZ9d6c3v5a b0SUrM08iG_GXNozAUoxzLOBVbO9qBrzZW2oU76LBWYJXkvCsufoClPy7NZJ ZF.CxMDHszCFieTg61WHAnX7lI2ToEXYLt8DbvMDwT.ynp2mi9sqAsLCC_hC hYIzbEx1fUdmTcdF8H_zF0yRIjrYJyXL2cyeMR8gI9hk8d0ER6UzLAFBhwhb mKGjVRDKjdOOE6Vyv0eLMxJAb2uNGSvfxHBVOpVHKXVMcK_p45nEM2_nJaDE XxypRyP7ZU8k.XRFQoqw52tt.Woczop2O0XiZCwI.9D6ghgaUikhi9aqlHYX jxn1GdDEHHR6uSdv5Gnn4vHAf7SNbRNEq4VMcr6VquOTsv5PoXS9YIX_DUAx rF_Rvv9wWKq14QeHZVaQjaE_Kv1hBfNgKOYNtJzIr3bieJGFpRKbt5M.16BV IdO.17dgEnHjjs.esR6eA6L_9IRqzCQgAKvRcrli98QAXRex_Wl2F8KCYVtO l.6LEPCh8rgwFWc49F97Pm0JsSlf59zqUqlHRh0TDVMkLAclNNdK1myZfPft nVxZRsF69ilOikAHA1aedrh.51OXjxvLZ4EFmtpJwhFNd X-Yahoo-SMTP: fvjol_aswBAraSJvMLe2r1XTzhBhbFxY8q8c3jo- X-Rocket-Received: from [10.1.1.133] (d.sturek@66.27.60.174 with plain [67.195.15.5]) by smtp119.sbc.mail.gq1.yahoo.com with SMTP; 12 Mar 2014 21:24:20 +0000 UTC User-Agent: Microsoft-MacOutlook/14.3.9.131030 Date: Wed, 12 Mar 2014 14:24:15 -0700 From: Don Sturek To: Routing Over Low power and Lossy networks , "Pascal Thubert (pthubert)" Message-ID: Thread-Topic: [Roll] interest in asymmetrical links support? References: <5215.1394657678@sandelman.ca> In-Reply-To: <5215.1394657678@sandelman.ca> Mime-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit Archived-At: http://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/roll/HPDoC6NINnCtizmTMfePOPGeMkk Subject: Re: [Roll] interest in asymmetrical links support? X-BeenThere: roll@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list Reply-To: Routing Over Low power and Lossy networks List-Id: Routing Over Low power and Lossy networks List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 12 Mar 2014 21:24:28 -0000 Hi Michael, The ZigBee IP specification is available publicly (after you are asked to enter some information). Here is the link: http://zigbee.org/Specifications/ZigBeeIP/Download.aspx In the ZigBee IP specification (secion 5.4.2.2 Objective Function) we use RFC 6719 and require that the ETX of the link is computed on both sides as the product of the forward and reverse delivery ratio (we use MLE to exchange ETX from the perspective of each one hop neighbor so that you can see what your neighbor thinks your ETX is and to support this calculation.....) By the way, though registration is required to get the specification, there is nothing in the ZigBee IP specification that is anything other than configuration information for IETF and IEEE specifications. We do have test plans, protocol interchange conformance statements plus logs from testing but those are all confidential to our commercial alliance unfortunately..... Don On 3/12/14 1:54 PM, "Michael Richardson" wrote: > > >Pascal Thubert (pthubert) wrote: > > This is another pending work related to RPL, specifically on asym. >links operations. > > The work was triggered by a discussion with Don Sturek, but failed >to > > attract WG attention at the time. > > I can revive it if interests grows? > > > https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-thubert-roll-asymlink-02 > >My impression is that we got stuck on asymmetric link issues because many >were unclear how they were going to get ETX, period, let alone assymetric >ETX. > >I think that MLE makes some of this clearer. > >-- >Michael Richardson , Sandelman Software Works >IETF ROLL WG co-chair. http://datatracker.ietf.org/wg/roll/charter/ > >_______________________________________________ >Roll mailing list >Roll@ietf.org >https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/roll From nobody Thu Mar 13 03:25:51 2014 Return-Path: X-Original-To: roll@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: roll@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3B98D1A0930 for ; Thu, 13 Mar 2014 03:25:49 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: 2.348 X-Spam-Level: ** X-Spam-Status: No, score=2.348 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_50=0.8, HELO_EQ_NL=0.55, HOST_EQ_NL=1.545, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, RP_MATCHES_RCVD=-0.547] autolearn=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 1qwYvLPbcKzB for ; Thu, 13 Mar 2014 03:25:47 -0700 (PDT) Received: from smtp-vbr2.xs4all.nl (smtp-vbr2.xs4all.nl [194.109.24.22]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3AF351A03E2 for ; Thu, 13 Mar 2014 03:25:47 -0700 (PDT) Received: from roundcube.xs4all.nl (roundcube5.xs4all.net [194.109.20.203]) by smtp-vbr2.xs4all.nl (8.13.8/8.13.8) with ESMTP id s2DAPeub092832 for ; Thu, 13 Mar 2014 11:25:40 +0100 (CET) (envelope-from stokcons@xs4all.nl) Received: from a82-95-140-48.adsl.xs4all.nl ([82.95.140.48]) by roundcube.xs4all.nl with HTTP (HTTP/1.1 POST); Thu, 13 Mar 2014 11:25:39 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Date: Thu, 13 Mar 2014 11:25:39 +0100 From: peter van der Stok To: roll@ietf.org Organization: vanderstok consultancy Mail-Reply-To: consultancy@vanderstok.org Message-ID: <9f0193e6f3e91387bbc90a10774d2260@xs4all.nl> X-Sender: stokcons@xs4all.nl (zAwi6ZVwx1s5JgHrbNrR0VBXZbopQQMT) User-Agent: XS4ALL Webmail X-Virus-Scanned: by XS4ALL Virus Scanner Archived-At: http://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/roll/D0emrHf5W8QOkMQ46hfnLxo-RA8 Subject: [Roll] Security threat analysis for applicability draft X-BeenThere: roll@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list Reply-To: consultancy@vanderstok.org, Routing Over Low power and Lossy networks List-Id: Routing Over Low power and Lossy networks List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 13 Mar 2014 10:25:49 -0000 Hi Richard, Thanks for the security threats draft. It certainly provides a large part of the text needed in the applicability drafts. However, I am not sure I interpreted the text according to your intentions. Looking at section 7 in more detail, I tried to establish where the applicability draft can be complementary to the text of the security draft. From section 7.1 I understand that key length, encryption algorithm and key life time need to be specified. Unfortunately, much of this is still in progress and can change with DICE and ACE recommendations. Complementing section 7.2, link-layer security will probably be used today, but in 2 years time? Complementing section 7.3. Do I understand that using multiple paths for reliability reasons should be mentioned as increasing routing security? Complementing section 7.4. Writing down choices, as already provided by the threats draft, will be more realistic than writing down recommendations. Complementing section 7.5. Is this the place one should write down physical access constraints or recommend to provide filtering edge routers at the border of the system? In conclusion, I am very happy with the threats document and its recommendations, but I see little opportunity to improve on it in the applicability draft. Thanks for a reaction, Peter -- Peter van der Stok mailto: consultancy@vanderstok.org www: www.vanderstok.org tel NL: +31(0)492474673 F: +33(0)966015248 From nobody Thu Mar 13 07:40:00 2014 Return-Path: X-Original-To: roll@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: roll@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4362A1A09FB; Thu, 13 Mar 2014 07:39:54 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.9 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.9 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9] autolearn=ham Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 7Ulp8EWacuTR; Thu, 13 Mar 2014 07:39:42 -0700 (PDT) Received: from ietfa.amsl.com (localhost [IPv6:::1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id B512C1A09DB; Thu, 13 Mar 2014 07:39:42 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: internet-drafts@ietf.org To: i-d-announce@ietf.org X-Test-IDTracker: no X-IETF-IDTracker: 5.1.0 Auto-Submitted: auto-generated Precedence: bulk Message-ID: <20140313143942.7850.75117.idtracker@ietfa.amsl.com> Date: Thu, 13 Mar 2014 07:39:42 -0700 Archived-At: http://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/roll/0mXqYGlLdiraAcKT_uekMy4aIsQ Cc: roll@ietf.org Subject: [Roll] I-D Action: draft-ietf-roll-mpl-parameter-configuration-00.txt X-BeenThere: roll@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Reply-To: Routing Over Low power and Lossy networks List-Id: Routing Over Low power and Lossy networks List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 13 Mar 2014 14:39:54 -0000 A New Internet-Draft is available from the on-line Internet-Drafts directories. This draft is a work item of the Routing Over Low power and Lossy networks Working Group of the IETF. Title : MPL Parameter Configuration Option for DHCPv6 Authors : Yusuke Doi Matthew Gillmore Filename : draft-ietf-roll-mpl-parameter-configuration-00.txt Pages : 9 Date : 2014-03-13 Abstract: This draft defines a way to configure MPL parameter set via DHCPv6 option. MPL has a set of parameters to control its behavior, and the parameter set is often configured as a network-wide parameter because the parameter set should be identical for each MPL forwarder in an MPL domain. Using the MPL Parameter Configuration Option defined in this document, a network can be configured with a single set of MPL parameter easily. The IETF datatracker status page for this draft is: https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-roll-mpl-parameter-configuration/ There's also a htmlized version available at: http://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-roll-mpl-parameter-configuration-00 Please note that it may take a couple of minutes from the time of submission until the htmlized version and diff are available at tools.ietf.org. Internet-Drafts are also available by anonymous FTP at: ftp://ftp.ietf.org/internet-drafts/ From nobody Thu Mar 13 11:26:34 2014 Return-Path: X-Original-To: roll@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: roll@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id E6A061A058E for ; Thu, 13 Mar 2014 11:26:33 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: 1.246 X-Spam-Level: * X-Spam-Status: No, score=1.246 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_50=0.8, RELAY_IS_203=0.994, RP_MATCHES_RCVD=-0.547, SPF_HELO_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id JFV2O-XjS5Mu for ; Thu, 13 Mar 2014 11:26:33 -0700 (PDT) Received: from relay.iisc.ernet.in (relay.iisc.ernet.in [203.200.35.66]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id A24991A0381 for ; Thu, 13 Mar 2014 11:26:32 -0700 (PDT) Received: from ece.iisc.ernet.in (mail.ece.iisc.ernet.in [10.32.1.10]) by relay.iisc.ernet.in (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id s2DIQMjn022754 for ; Thu, 13 Mar 2014 23:56:22 +0530 Received: from ece.iisc.ernet.in (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ece.iisc.ernet.in (8.13.6/8.13.6/SuSE Linux 0.8) with ESMTP id s2DIINnQ000509 for ; Thu, 13 Mar 2014 23:48:23 +0530 Received: (from wwwrun@localhost) by ece.iisc.ernet.in (8.13.6/8.13.6/Submit) id s2DIINpv000508; Thu, 13 Mar 2014 23:48:23 +0530 Received: from 10.16.40.11 (proxying for 117.192.126.238) (SquirrelMail authenticated user anand) by www.ece.iisc.ernet.in with HTTP; Thu, 13 Mar 2014 23:48:23 +0530 Message-ID: <72bcb3b5a78cbe6c76ea9b4c17e5ce2b.squirrel@www.ece.iisc.ernet.in> Date: Thu, 13 Mar 2014 23:48:23 +0530 From: "S.V.R.Anand" To: roll@ietf.org User-Agent: SquirrelMail/1.4.19 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain;charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) Importance: Normal X-IISc-MailScanner-Information: Please contact the ISP for more information X-IISc-MailScanner: Found to be clean X-IISc-MailScanner-SpamCheck: not spam, SpamAssassin (not cached, score=-1.599, required 6.5, ALL_TRUSTED -1.00, BAYES_00 -1.90, FSL_RCVD_USER 0.00, MR_NOT_ATTRIBUTED_IP 0.20, _LOCAL_RCVD_THRU_RPROXY 1.10) X-IISc-MailScanner-From: anand@ece.iisc.ernet.in Archived-At: http://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/roll/8qUNRHKLZ5Xu_rYOnzUhPGi4GHc Subject: [Roll] RPL and SDN/OpenFlow X-BeenThere: roll@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list Reply-To: Routing Over Low power and Lossy networks List-Id: Routing Over Low power and Lossy networks List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 13 Mar 2014 18:26:34 -0000 Hi, Pardon me if this is not the appropriate forum to ask this query. I am contemplating of extending the use of SDN all the way to WSNs. In this context, I would like to know if there have been any efforts to realise SDN/OpenFlow on top of RPL ? Not sure what it takes in doing so. I hope the idea itself is not out of place. I appreciate to receive your inputs. Anand -- This message has been scanned for viruses and dangerous content by MailScanner, and is believed to be clean. From nobody Thu Mar 13 16:23:42 2014 Return-Path: X-Original-To: roll@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: roll@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id C2F2F1A0795 for ; Thu, 13 Mar 2014 16:23:38 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -4.939 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-4.939 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, HELO_EQ_JP=1.244, HOST_EQ_JP=1.265, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_HI=-5, RP_MATCHES_RCVD=-0.547, SPF_HELO_PASS=-0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, UNPARSEABLE_RELAY=0.001] autolearn=ham Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 8sNi48VPpl2P for ; Thu, 13 Mar 2014 16:23:35 -0700 (PDT) Received: from imx12.toshiba.co.jp (imx12.toshiba.co.jp [61.202.160.132]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6F7241A0796 for ; Thu, 13 Mar 2014 16:23:35 -0700 (PDT) Received: from arc11.toshiba.co.jp ([133.199.90.127]) by imx12.toshiba.co.jp with ESMTP id s2DNNRcs005825 for ; Fri, 14 Mar 2014 08:23:27 +0900 (JST) Received: (from root@localhost) by arc11.toshiba.co.jp id s2DNNRVj012245 for roll@ietf.org; Fri, 14 Mar 2014 08:23:27 +0900 (JST) Received: from ovp11.toshiba.co.jp [133.199.90.148] by arc11.toshiba.co.jp with ESMTP id JAA12244; Fri, 14 Mar 2014 08:23:27 +0900 Received: from mx12.toshiba.co.jp (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ovp11.toshiba.co.jp with ESMTP id s2DNNR1N016523 for ; Fri, 14 Mar 2014 08:23:27 +0900 (JST) Received: from spiffy21.isl.rdc.toshiba.co.jp by toshiba.co.jp id s2DNNRYk018281; Fri, 14 Mar 2014 08:23:27 +0900 (JST) Received: from [133.196.16.135] (ncg-dhcp135.isl.rdc.toshiba.co.jp [133.196.16.135]) by spiffy21.isl.rdc.toshiba.co.jp (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 2EADC97D96 for ; Fri, 14 Mar 2014 08:23:27 +0900 (JST) Message-ID: <53223DEE.5020605@toshiba.co.jp> Date: Fri, 14 Mar 2014 08:23:26 +0900 From: Yusuke DOI User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 6.1; WOW64; rv:24.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/24.3.0 MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Routing Over Low power and Lossy networks References: <20140313143942.7850.75117.idtracker@ietfa.amsl.com> In-Reply-To: <20140313143942.7850.75117.idtracker@ietfa.amsl.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Archived-At: http://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/roll/qEtmpF2PbD4CnL6WqzunHxs0TTA Subject: Re: [Roll] I-D Action: draft-ietf-roll-mpl-parameter-configuration-00.txt X-BeenThere: roll@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list Reply-To: Routing Over Low power and Lossy networks List-Id: Routing Over Low power and Lossy networks List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 13 Mar 2014 23:23:39 -0000 Hi, The MPL configuration option draft is renamed. Thanks to chairs and the discussions on and off the list. Also, I'll ask some reviews on this draft to DHC folks. Any comments are welcome. Typical open topics are: 1) Effect of inconsistent parameter set among nodes (transitional state / update failure) 2) Add/Remove of new MPL domain 3) Format to encode timers (-> DHC wg) Thanks, Yusuke (2014-03-13 23:39), internet-drafts@ietf.org wrote: > > A New Internet-Draft is available from the on-line Internet-Drafts directories. > This draft is a work item of the Routing Over Low power and Lossy networks Working Group of the IETF. > > Title : MPL Parameter Configuration Option for DHCPv6 > Authors : Yusuke Doi > Matthew Gillmore > Filename : draft-ietf-roll-mpl-parameter-configuration-00.txt > Pages : 9 > Date : 2014-03-13 > > Abstract: > This draft defines a way to configure MPL parameter set via DHCPv6 > option. MPL has a set of parameters to control its behavior, and the > parameter set is often configured as a network-wide parameter because > the parameter set should be identical for each MPL forwarder in an > MPL domain. Using the MPL Parameter Configuration Option defined in > this document, a network can be configured with a single set of MPL > parameter easily. > > > The IETF datatracker status page for this draft is: > https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-roll-mpl-parameter-configuration/ > > There's also a htmlized version available at: > http://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-roll-mpl-parameter-configuration-00 > > > Please note that it may take a couple of minutes from the time of submission > until the htmlized version and diff are available at tools.ietf.org. > > Internet-Drafts are also available by anonymous FTP at: > ftp://ftp.ietf.org/internet-drafts/ > > _______________________________________________ > Roll mailing list > Roll@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/roll > From nobody Mon Mar 17 09:11:00 2014 Return-Path: X-Original-To: roll@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: roll@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2A65B1A0427 for ; Mon, 17 Mar 2014 09:10:57 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: 3.773 X-Spam-Level: *** X-Spam-Status: No, score=3.773 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_50=0.8, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, FM_FORGED_GMAIL=0.622, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, MIME_CHARSET_FARAWAY=2.45, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id JYEeX7rc2EGg for ; Mon, 17 Mar 2014 09:10:54 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail-vc0-x235.google.com (mail-vc0-x235.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:400c:c03::235]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 367C81A00AF for ; Mon, 17 Mar 2014 09:10:54 -0700 (PDT) Received: by mail-vc0-f181.google.com with SMTP id id10so6111130vcb.12 for ; Mon, 17 Mar 2014 09:10:46 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=googlemail.com; s=20120113; h=mime-version:date:message-id:subject:from:to:content-type; bh=1CP5mDE/oMNjvU/huRVGFHQcCKgv1HOJmdWLkZdHkYQ=; b=OLMbVrxxa4bT/qZvJ99Lp6MlDNLsbkSRIIfKqdcAKihehyKF+2j436uJn0xV+HLWtK fQqMGOROrGRTkjlinZxvWHkMSfmn4K4r1wlVTRt4vPMrRyndmLHT4Gu7aFKce1d3W6sh JQjnxsji9soj6Tay+tFCz0isHHPEBCoppyJtJiOor2LKOnIW6Auueo7avHvRV6iprQV9 YMle84M1CiqfXGyUv/C4OOVCIAdhWfZJLI5uVkBiGXxOFallClaQcxgo1yHYefYLQB3N Gk9UNmb3GUX9ZKvqKJnms+a40CLAjXSjPNOnFaW7+c/QtON996sEPZC7iHrR80pZ6uLs xNMg== MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Received: by 10.220.139.198 with SMTP id f6mr173967vcu.47.1395072645974; Mon, 17 Mar 2014 09:10:45 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.221.16.3 with HTTP; Mon, 17 Mar 2014 09:10:45 -0700 (PDT) Date: Mon, 17 Mar 2014 13:10:45 -0300 Message-ID: From: Ines Robles To: roll Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=047d7b3439407fcfab04f4cfa943 Archived-At: http://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/roll/LPXS9dVh8wiVg_n7Mal10apchII Subject: [Roll] Intention of draft-zhang-roll-rpl-intrusion-defence-00 X-BeenThere: roll@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list Reply-To: Routing Over Low power and Lossy networks List-Id: Routing Over Low power and Lossy networks List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 17 Mar 2014 16:10:57 -0000 --047d7b3439407fcfab04f4cfa943 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=GB2312 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable *Hello Lan Zhang, Gang Feng and Shuang Qin, We would like to know please, what the author's intend for this document? How it would fit into the charter? Do we need re-chartering of ROLL? Please bring up any comments, questions, topics that you desire to discuss into the mailing list, We would like to know please the opinion of the WG about this draft Thank you and Kind Regards, Michael & Ines.* 2014-01-05 11:31 GMT-03:00 Ines Robles : > Hello, > > Thanks for your comments. > > My comments below, > > 2014/1/2 Feng Gang > >> >> Thank you for your response. We are not quite sure if we can understand >> your questions well. >> > I apologize if I was not clear, the idea was to ask how this draft is > aligned with roll charter. For example in the charter a work item is: > > - Specification of routing metrics used in path calculation. This > includes static and dynamic link/node attributes required for routing in > LLNs. --> To satisfy this item, the RFC 6551 was produced. > > In case that it is not aligned with the charter, we should re-chartering. > >> >> Our main purpose of submitting this document is to seek possibility that >> our proposal is meaningful in ROLL. We wonder if the document can be >> "standard track" or "informational". >> > > Maybe experimental [BCP9 ]= , > anyway I=A1=AFm going to discuss with Michael about that. > >> >> We have studied draft-ietf-roll-security-threats-06 and will mention it >> in the next update. We have implemented our design of IDS to detect ETX >> intrusion in Contiki OS, Sky platform and validated its effectiveness. >> > That is great, do you have some academic papers about it. > > Thank you in advance, > > Kind Regards, > > Ines Robles > >> >> Kind regards, >> >> >> Lan Zhang, Gang Feng and Shuang Qin >> >> >> >> >> >> 2014-01-03 >> ------------------------------ >> Feng Gang >> ------------------------------ >> *=B7=A2=BC=FE=C8=CB=A3=BA* Ines Robles >> *=B7=A2=CB=CD=CA=B1=BC=E4=A3=BA* 2014-01-01 17:37:16 >> *=CA=D5=BC=FE=C8=CB=A3=BA* zhanglan_uestc; fenggang; blueqs >> *=B3=AD=CB=CD=A3=BA* Michael Richardson; roll >> *=D6=F7=CC=E2=A3=BA* draft-zhang-roll-rpl-intrusion-defence-00 >> >> Hello Lan Zhang, Gang Feng and Shuang Qin >> >> Thank you for this draft, >> https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-zhang-roll-rpl-intrusion-defence/= , >> which was posted on November 2013: >> >> >> ------------------------------------------------------------------------= -------------------------------------------------- >> >> Abstract: >> This document specifies intrusion detection systems (IDSs) as the >> second line of defence, to secure the Routing Protocol for >> Low-power >> and Lossy Networks (RPL). >> >> >> ------------------------------------------------------------------------= ---------------------------------------------------- >> >> We would like to know please, what the author's intend for this document= ? >> How it would fit into the charter? Do we need re-chartering of ROLL? >> >> I think the draft should mention draft-ietf-roll-security-threats-06. I >> found interesting the design of IDS for ETX intrusion detection. Do you >> know if there is some implementations of it? >> >> Thank you very much in advance, >> Kind Regards, >> >> Ines Robles >> > > --047d7b3439407fcfab04f4cfa943 Content-Type: text/html; charset=GB2312 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

Hello Lan Zhang, Gang Fen= g and Shuang Qin,


We would lik= e to know please, what the author's intend for this document? How it wo= uld fit into the charter? Do we need re-chartering of ROLL?


Please brin= g up any comments, questions, topics that you desire to discuss into the ma= iling list,


We would like to = know please the opinion of the WG about this draft


Thank you and Kin= d Regards,


Michael & Ine= s.


2014-01-05 11:31 GMT-03:00 Ines Robles <mariainesrobles@goog= lemail.com>:
Hello,

Thanks for your comments.

My commen= ts below,

2014/1/2 Feng Gang <fenggang@uestc.edu.cn>
 
Thank=20 you for your response. We are not quite sure if we can understand your ques= tions=20 well.
I apolo= gize if I was not clear, the idea was to ask how this draft is aligned with= roll charter. For example in the charter a work item is:

- Specification of routing metrics used in path calculation. This
includes static and dynamic link/node attributes required for routing in<= br> LLNs. --> To satisfy this item, the RFC 6551 was produced.

In case that it is not aligned with the charter, we should re-charte= ring.
<= /font> 
Our=20 main purpose of submitting this document is to seek possibility that o= ur=20 proposal is meaningful in ROLL. We=20 wonder if the document can be "standard track" or=20 "informational".

Maybe experimental [BCP9], anyway I&rsquo= ;m going to discuss with Michael about that.
<= /font> 
We=20 have studied draft-ietf-roll-security-threats-06 and will mention it i= n the=20 next update. We=20 have implemented our design of IDS to detect ETX intrusion in Contiki = OS,=20 Sky platform and validated its effectiveness.
That is great,  do you have som= e academic papers about it.

Thank you in advance,

=
Kind Regards,

Ines Robles
<= /font> 
Kind=20 regards,
<= /font> 
<= /font> 
Lan=20 Zhang, Gang Feng and Shuang Qin 
<= /font> 
<= /font> 
<= /font> 
 
 
2014-01-03
Feng Gang=20
=B7=A2=BC=FE=C8=CB=A3=BA Ines Robles
=B7=A2=CB=CD=CA=B1=BC=E4=A3=BA 2014-01-0= 1  17:37:16=20
=CA=D5=BC=FE=C8=CB=A3=BA zhanglan_uestc;= fenggang;=20 blueqs
=B3=AD=CB=CD=A3=BA Michael Richardson; r= oll=20
=D6=F7=CC=E2=A3=BA=20 draft-zhang-roll-rpl-intrusion-defence-00
<= div>

Hello=20 Lan Zhang, Gang Feng and Shuang Qin

Thank=20 you for this draft, https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/dra= ft-zhang-roll-rpl-intrusion-defence/,=20 which was posted on November 2013:

-------------------------------------= ---------------------------------------------------------------------------= ----------

Abstract:=20
      This document specifies intrusion= =20 detection systems (IDSs) as the
      sec= ond=20 line of defence, to secure the Routing Protocol for Low-power=20
      and Lossy Networks (RPL).

-------------------------------------= ---------------------------------------------------------------------------= ------------

We=20 would like to know please, what the author's=20 intend for this document? How it would fit into the charter? Do we n= eed=20 re-chartering of ROLL?

I=20 think the draft should mention draft-ietf-roll-security-threats-06. I found= =20 interesting the design of IDS for ETX intrusion detection. Do you know if t= here=20 is some implementations of it?

Thank=20 you very much in advance,

Kind=20 Regards,

Ines=20 Robles


--047d7b3439407fcfab04f4cfa943-- From nobody Tue Mar 18 08:08:46 2014 Return-Path: X-Original-To: roll@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: roll@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id F0D6D1A02EE for ; Tue, 18 Mar 2014 08:08:44 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -10.048 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-10.048 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, RP_MATCHES_RCVD=-0.547, SPF_PASS=-0.001, USER_IN_DEF_DKIM_WL=-7.5] autolearn=ham Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 8z-Rf6symeHL for ; Tue, 18 Mar 2014 08:08:43 -0700 (PDT) Received: from alln-iport-2.cisco.com (alln-iport-2.cisco.com [173.37.142.89]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 36DB71A0141 for ; Tue, 18 Mar 2014 08:08:43 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/simple; d=cisco.com; i=@cisco.com; l=1095; q=dns/txt; s=iport; t=1395155315; x=1396364915; h=from:to:subject:date:message-id:references:in-reply-to: content-transfer-encoding:mime-version; bh=kgZP6fgEoNnzDSaPM/1Mx58ot4k3ruaD/1zCNDoJB7k=; b=CC8U6y6X1KC46Tr9W+Nc9m2Ea9zwvdZpyQ4O8awWZjcCueqo+r0Cm1J5 E6Ml9znknrmXqaIG5+gcPR+ve0aa6p1hvwvNAAM/uEZ1SzpHWQrYLA4VV sNxdCxLBYa9scVgneSr30reofzKzBWZArZumb1lf5AVunje8JNIvbvfC4 A=; X-IronPort-Anti-Spam-Filtered: true X-IronPort-Anti-Spam-Result: AkgFABNhKFOtJV2c/2dsb2JhbABagwY7V7pmhzyBIxZ0giUBAQEEAQEBNzQXBAIBCBEEAQELFAkHJwsUCQgCBBMIh3EN0VUTBIlphEg4BoMegRQEqnaDLYIr X-IronPort-AV: E=Sophos;i="4.97,678,1389744000"; d="scan'208";a="28357363" Received: from rcdn-core-5.cisco.com ([173.37.93.156]) by alln-iport-2.cisco.com with ESMTP; 18 Mar 2014 15:08:34 +0000 Received: from xhc-aln-x11.cisco.com (xhc-aln-x11.cisco.com [173.36.12.85]) by rcdn-core-5.cisco.com (8.14.5/8.14.5) with ESMTP id s2IF8Ybq010965 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=AES128-SHA bits=128 verify=FAIL) for ; Tue, 18 Mar 2014 15:08:34 GMT Received: from xmb-rcd-x01.cisco.com ([169.254.1.9]) by xhc-aln-x11.cisco.com ([173.36.12.85]) with mapi id 14.03.0123.003; Tue, 18 Mar 2014 10:08:34 -0500 From: "Pascal Thubert (pthubert)" To: Routing Over Low power and Lossy networks Thread-Topic: [Roll] RPL and SDN/OpenFlow Thread-Index: AQHPPunDKuEVkUkyXUSyUCjuUtyGXJrm+ZGg Date: Tue, 18 Mar 2014 15:08:34 +0000 Deferred-Delivery: Tue, 18 Mar 2014 15:08:00 +0000 Message-ID: References: <72bcb3b5a78cbe6c76ea9b4c17e5ce2b.squirrel@www.ece.iisc.ernet.in> In-Reply-To: <72bcb3b5a78cbe6c76ea9b4c17e5ce2b.squirrel@www.ece.iisc.ernet.in> Accept-Language: fr-FR, en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-originating-ip: [10.49.80.32] Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable MIME-Version: 1.0 Archived-At: http://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/roll/cPdOssfTF7v50hAD7WMSJS5Imk8 Subject: Re: [Roll] RPL and SDN/OpenFlow X-BeenThere: roll@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list Reply-To: Routing Over Low power and Lossy networks List-Id: Routing Over Low power and Lossy networks List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 18 Mar 2014 15:08:45 -0000 Hello Anand: 6TiSCH will be studying a PCE model once the RPL over TSCH is figured out. As a result, we will have a mix of distributed and centralized routing. Cheers, Pascal > -----Original Message----- > From: Roll [mailto:roll-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of S.V.R.Anand > Sent: jeudi 13 mars 2014 19:18 > To: roll@ietf.org > Subject: [Roll] RPL and SDN/OpenFlow >=20 > Hi, >=20 > Pardon me if this is not the appropriate forum to ask this query. >=20 > I am contemplating of extending the use of SDN all the way to WSNs. In th= is > context, I would like to know if there have been any efforts to realise > SDN/OpenFlow on top of RPL ? Not sure what it takes in doing so. I hope t= he > idea itself is not out of place. >=20 > I appreciate to receive your inputs. >=20 > Anand >=20 >=20 >=20 > -- > This message has been scanned for viruses and dangerous content by > MailScanner, and is believed to be clean. >=20 > _______________________________________________ > Roll mailing list > Roll@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/roll From nobody Tue Mar 18 09:56:57 2014 Return-Path: X-Original-To: roll@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: roll@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id B83161A06E1 for ; Tue, 18 Mar 2014 09:56:54 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.454 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.454 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, RELAY_IS_203=0.994, RP_MATCHES_RCVD=-0.547, SPF_HELO_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id fXqqh5t2n-Y2 for ; Tue, 18 Mar 2014 09:56:52 -0700 (PDT) Received: from relay.iisc.ernet.in (relay.iisc.ernet.in [203.200.35.66]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1B7D41A0425 for ; Tue, 18 Mar 2014 09:56:51 -0700 (PDT) Received: from ece.iisc.ernet.in (ece.iisc.ernet.in [10.32.1.10]) by relay.iisc.ernet.in (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id s2IGuWo1007211 for ; Tue, 18 Mar 2014 22:26:32 +0530 Received: from ece.iisc.ernet.in (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ece.iisc.ernet.in (8.13.6/8.13.6/SuSE Linux 0.8) with ESMTP id s2IGmR3e007566 for ; Tue, 18 Mar 2014 22:18:28 +0530 Received: (from wwwrun@localhost) by ece.iisc.ernet.in (8.13.6/8.13.6/Submit) id s2IGmQn9007563; Tue, 18 Mar 2014 22:18:26 +0530 From: Anand@ece.iisc.ernet.in Received: from 10.16.40.12 (proxying for 117.192.99.217) (SquirrelMail authenticated user Anand) by www.ece.iisc.ernet.in with HTTP; Tue, 18 Mar 2014 22:18:27 +0530 Message-ID: In-Reply-To: References: <72bcb3b5a78cbe6c76ea9b4c17e5ce2b.squirrel@www.ece.iisc.ernet.in> Date: Tue, 18 Mar 2014 22:18:27 +0530 To: "Routing Over Low power and Lossy networks" User-Agent: SquirrelMail/1.4.19 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain;charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) Importance: Normal X-IISc-MailScanner-Information: Please contact the ISP for more information X-IISc-MailScanner: Found to be clean X-IISc-MailScanner-SpamCheck: not spam, SpamAssassin (not cached, score=-0.599, required 6.5, ALL_TRUSTED -1.00, BAYES_00 -1.90, FSL_RCVD_USER 0.00, MR_NOT_ATTRIBUTED_IP 0.20, NO_REAL_NAME 1.00, _LOCAL_RCVD_THRU_RPROXY 1.10) X-IISc-MailScanner-From: anand@ece.iisc.ernet.in Archived-At: http://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/roll/-r7eTV5TLfC_U5ponX8gRT3yMZg Subject: Re: [Roll] RPL and SDN/OpenFlow X-BeenThere: roll@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list Reply-To: Routing Over Low power and Lossy networks List-Id: Routing Over Low power and Lossy networks List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 18 Mar 2014 16:56:55 -0000 Hello Pascal, Thanks for the input. Nice to know that we are moving towards network architectures that can extend SDN style of network provisioning into RPL framework. It would be interesting to study how the notion of OFs can be used in the context of SDNs. Since I just started looking into this, let me know if the problem is interesting and I would be thankful if I can interact with someone to initiate the work. I would also like to contribute to the ongoing effort. Anand > Hello Anand: > > 6TiSCH will be studying a PCE model once the RPL over TSCH is figured out. > As a result, we will have a mix of distributed and centralized routing. > > Cheers, > > Pascal > > >> -----Original Message----- >> From: Roll [mailto:roll-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of S.V.R.Anand >> Sent: jeudi 13 mars 2014 19:18 >> To: roll@ietf.org >> Subject: [Roll] RPL and SDN/OpenFlow >> >> Hi, >> >> Pardon me if this is not the appropriate forum to ask this query. >> >> I am contemplating of extending the use of SDN all the way to WSNs. In >> this >> context, I would like to know if there have been any efforts to realise >> SDN/OpenFlow on top of RPL ? Not sure what it takes in doing so. I hope >> the >> idea itself is not out of place. >> >> I appreciate to receive your inputs. >> >> Anand >> >> >> >> -- >> This message has been scanned for viruses and dangerous content by >> MailScanner, and is believed to be clean. >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Roll mailing list >> Roll@ietf.org >> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/roll > > _______________________________________________ > Roll mailing list > Roll@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/roll > > -- > This message has been scanned for viruses and > dangerous content by MailScanner, and is > believed to be clean. > -- This message has been scanned for viruses and dangerous content by MailScanner, and is believed to be clean. From nobody Wed Mar 19 07:57:44 2014 Return-Path: X-Original-To: roll@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: roll@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9B5F61A075D for ; Wed, 19 Mar 2014 07:57:42 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.377 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.377 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, FM_FORGED_GMAIL=0.622, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id fsZJiBqx149m for ; Wed, 19 Mar 2014 07:57:41 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail-vc0-x230.google.com (mail-vc0-x230.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:400c:c03::230]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 622431A075F for ; Wed, 19 Mar 2014 07:57:41 -0700 (PDT) Received: by mail-vc0-f176.google.com with SMTP id lc6so9328435vcb.35 for ; Wed, 19 Mar 2014 07:57:32 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=googlemail.com; s=20120113; h=mime-version:date:message-id:subject:from:to:cc:content-type; bh=pRjPZBNIeGeD/WkuH7N3rZyGwnV4cNCMWHm8xcphSrQ=; b=Tzp9Ard1DpP/AbkybOeeKwZU9rJrhQyJjUFyRVai49jr2R6LVmE0c+BCMuO7PMxSZx RjtvXb6qOK3vW+ha6f2atQfEZuQl/I7WkH5vL+mUWjS+ZjA9EV2arHtpk77SI9Qxlmcq UnLXvZxgFDQMsgDnsSvYPWJQ/yItB6BVRgmqwCePImjvq/oGr/Gt7lAIfOyIDASgEf9c eGXkGkmsymrpysw/aL+LXFvo16FiMkSOTjr9K7mXjHPo5KOQeVkwjDuDK5/SXiSxd8R4 tcPwEHlgRMYEWQwuPFUuSd+5y5/8hxYw/8iIs7Ht+3xzoIrvX8fSQt4CTluYdC320b7Q SVTg== MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Received: by 10.58.207.74 with SMTP id lu10mr30047957vec.15.1395241052581; Wed, 19 Mar 2014 07:57:32 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.221.16.3 with HTTP; Wed, 19 Mar 2014 07:57:32 -0700 (PDT) Date: Wed, 19 Mar 2014 11:57:32 -0300 Message-ID: From: Ines Robles To: roll Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=047d7b6783ce50b46204f4f6df18 Archived-At: http://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/roll/wN790ZqKBLopJBj9dKrFxCKhQ_w Cc: Michael Richardson Subject: [Roll] Minute IETF 89 X-BeenThere: roll@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list Reply-To: Routing Over Low power and Lossy networks List-Id: Routing Over Low power and Lossy networks List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 19 Mar 2014 14:57:42 -0000 --047d7b6783ce50b46204f4f6df18 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Hi, Please find the minute for IETF 89 here: http://www.ietf.org/proceedings/89/minutes/minutes-89-roll Other meeting material: https://datatracker.ietf.org/meeting/89/materials.html Please any comments are very welcome, Thanks and Regards, Michael & Ines. --047d7b6783ce50b46204f4f6df18 Content-Type: text/html; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Hi,

Please find the minute for IE= TF 89 here:


Other meeting material:


Please any comments are very welcome,=

Thanks and Regards,
<= br>
Michael & Ines.
--047d7b6783ce50b46204f4f6df18-- From nobody Wed Mar 19 18:07:59 2014 Return-Path: X-Original-To: roll@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: roll@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 640C01A0866 for ; Wed, 19 Mar 2014 18:07:54 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.239 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.239 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, HELO_EQ_JP=1.244, HOST_EQ_JP=1.265, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-2.3, RP_MATCHES_RCVD=-0.547, SPF_HELO_PASS=-0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, UNPARSEABLE_RELAY=0.001] autolearn=ham Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id LTK6YyilDbho for ; Wed, 19 Mar 2014 18:07:49 -0700 (PDT) Received: from imx2.toshiba.co.jp (inet-tsb5.toshiba.co.jp [202.33.96.24]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 95FDB1A0869 for ; Wed, 19 Mar 2014 18:07:48 -0700 (PDT) Received: from arc1.toshiba.co.jp ([133.199.194.235]) by imx2.toshiba.co.jp with ESMTP id s2K17dcg020190 for ; Thu, 20 Mar 2014 10:07:39 +0900 (JST) Received: (from root@localhost) by arc1.toshiba.co.jp id s2K17dBL006187 for roll@ietf.org; Thu, 20 Mar 2014 10:07:39 +0900 (JST) Received: from unknown [133.199.192.144] by arc1.toshiba.co.jp with ESMTP id LAA06185; Thu, 20 Mar 2014 10:07:39 +0900 Received: from mx2.toshiba.co.jp (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ovp2.toshiba.co.jp with ESMTP id s2K17cmx011552 for ; Thu, 20 Mar 2014 10:07:38 +0900 (JST) Received: from spiffy21.isl.rdc.toshiba.co.jp by toshiba.co.jp id s2K17cJh002408; Thu, 20 Mar 2014 10:07:38 +0900 (JST) Received: from [133.196.16.135] (ncg-dhcp135.isl.rdc.toshiba.co.jp [133.196.16.135]) by spiffy21.isl.rdc.toshiba.co.jp (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 95C4B97D18 for ; Thu, 20 Mar 2014 10:07:38 +0900 (JST) Message-ID: <532A3F5A.6030603@toshiba.co.jp> Date: Thu, 20 Mar 2014 10:07:38 +0900 From: Yusuke DOI User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 6.1; WOW64; rv:24.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/24.4.0 MIME-Version: 1.0 To: roll@ietf.org References: <53253658.8010700@toshiba.co.jp> In-Reply-To: X-Forwarded-Message-Id: <53253658.8010700@toshiba.co.jp> Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="------------010905070002060309050907" Archived-At: http://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/roll/6BRC1q6Sv2XSHZAKe2TiBiTtwEk Subject: [Roll] Fwd: Re: [dhcwg] Review Request (Fwd: I-D Action: draft-ietf-roll-mpl-parameter-configuration-00.txt) X-BeenThere: roll@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list Reply-To: Routing Over Low power and Lossy networks List-Id: Routing Over Low power and Lossy networks List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 20 Mar 2014 01:07:55 -0000 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --------------010905070002060309050907 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hi, Let me inform you there was a comment on my draft from Matthew Ryan. I will cross-post if any further discussion occurs. Regards, Yusuke --------------010905070002060309050907 Content-Type: message/rfc822; name="Re: [dhcwg] Review Request (Fwd: I-D Action: draft-ietf-roll-mpl-parameter-configuration-00_txt).eml" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: attachment; filename*0="Re: [dhcwg] Review Request (Fwd: I-D Action: draft-ietf-roll"; filename*1="-mpl-parameter-configuration-00_txt).eml" Message-ID: <53253658.8010700@toshiba.co.jp> Date: Sun, 16 Mar 2014 14:27:52 +0900 From: Yusuke DOI User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 6.1; WOW64; rv:24.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/24.3.0 MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Matthew Ryan CC: dhcwg@ietf.org, Matthew.Gillmore@itron.com Subject: Re: [dhcwg] Review Request (Fwd: I-D Action: draft-ietf-roll-mpl-parameter-configuration-00.txt) References: <20140313143942.7850.75117.idtracker@ietfa.amsl.com> <53224737.7090109@toshiba.co.jp> In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Matt, Thank you very much for your comment. (2014-03-15 03:05), Matthew Ryan wrote: > Having an optional fragment at the head of an option will > likely require custom code specific to this option in anything > that has to read or write it (as opposed to just relaying > it) and may be an impediment to adoption. See section 6 of > draft-ietf-dhc-option-guidelines. > > Since the only difference between the two forms is whether > the address is present or not, you should place the address > at the end of the option, and mark it as optional, as suggested > by section 5 of the option guidelines draft. > > Note that, regardless of whether you place the address at the > front of the option or the end of the option, you will not > be able to count on any particular alignment of the address, > or anything else, since there are no alignment guarantees > in the protocol (section 19 of the option guidelines draft). Sorry for confusion. The format I sent in the e-mail is what I tried to avoid some non-octet fields (P, C_K, DM_K). The version became awkward and I dropped the idea. The submitted version follows the guideline. The format is as follows: 0 1 2 3 0 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 0 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 0 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 0 1 +-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+ | OPTION_MPL_PARAMETERS | option_len | +-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+ |P| Z | C_K | Z2 | DM_K | SE_LIFETIME | +-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+ | DM_IMIN | DM_IMAX | +-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+ | DM_T_EXP | C_IMIN | +-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+ | C_IMAX | C_T_EXP | +-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+ (if option_len = 32 ) +-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+ | MPL Domain Address (128bits) | +-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+ | (cont'ed) | +-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+ | (cont'ed) | +-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+ | (cont'ed) | +-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+ The draft also defines unsigned short floating point (section 2.1) for the timers. There are some reasons to define a new type: 1) Timers could be very short (*_IMIN in 10 ms.) or long (SE_LIFETIME may be in weeks) 2) Linear precision is not needed (There are no reason to say 1 week and 10ms.) 3) Packet should be short enough 4) Timer is unsigned and should be base-10 (not base-2) An unsigned short floating point: 0 1 0 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 0 1 2 3 4 5 +-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+ | exp.| significand | +-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+ Timer values are significand * 10**exp in millisecond unit. If you know similar value type already used in DHCPv6, please let me know. Regards, Yusuke --------------010905070002060309050907 Content-Type: message/rfc822; name="Re: [dhcwg] Review Request (Fwd: I-D Action: draft-ietf-roll-mpl-parameter-configuration-00_txt).eml" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: attachment; filename*0="Re: [dhcwg] Review Request (Fwd: I-D Action: draft-ietf-roll"; filename*1="-mpl-parameter-configuration-00_txt).eml" Return-Path: X-Original-To: ydoi@isl.rdc.toshiba.co.jp Delivered-To: ydoi@isl.rdc.toshiba.co.jp Received: from mx12.toshiba.co.jp (mx12.toshiba.co.jp [133.199.90.142]) by spiffy21.isl.rdc.toshiba.co.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id C638C97D79 for ; Sat, 15 Mar 2014 03:05:33 +0900 (JST) Received: from ivp11.toshiba.co.jp by toshiba.co.jp id s2EI5Xfj022803; Sat, 15 Mar 2014 03:05:33 +0900 (JST) Received: from imx11.toshiba.co.jp by ivp11.toshiba.co.jp with ESMTP id s2EI5XOE010680 for ; Sat, 15 Mar 2014 03:05:33 +0900 (JST) Received: from mdi1500.tsb.2iij.net (mdi1500.tsb.2iij.net [210.149.48.186]) by imx11.toshiba.co.jp with ESMTP id s2EI5X0Y005715 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO) for ; Sat, 15 Mar 2014 03:05:33 +0900 (JST) Received: TSB TSB-MDI1500 id s2EI5WsZ012001; Sat, 15 Mar 2014 03:05:32 +0900 Received: from unknown [172.23.208.173] (EHLO mi1403.tsb.2iij.net) by mas1503.tsb.2iij.net(mxl_mta-6.15.0-9) with ESMTP id ce443235.0.85241.00-660.155486.mas1503.tsb.2iij.net (envelope-from ); Sat, 15 Mar 2014 03:05:32 +0900 (JST) Authentication-Results: spf.tis.toshiba.co.jp; spf=none smtp.mailfrom=Matt.Ryan@nominum.com; dkim=none; dkim-adsp=none header.From=Matt.Ryan@nominum.com Received: TSB TSB-MI1403 from shell-too.nominum.com (shell-too.nominum.com [64.89.228.229]) (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NOT) for id s2EI5OoQ001076; Sat, 15 Mar 2014 03:05:31 +0900 Received: from newvir.ddns.nominum.com (newvir.ddns.nominum.com [64.89.225.103]) (using TLSv1 with cipher AES128-SHA (128/128 bits)) (Client did not present a certificate) by shell-too.nominum.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 36B691B8049; Fri, 14 Mar 2014 11:05:23 -0700 (PDT) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 7.2 \(1874\)) Subject: Re: [dhcwg] Review Request (Fwd: I-D Action: draft-ietf-roll-mpl-parameter-configuration-00.txt) From: Matthew Ryan In-Reply-To: <53224737.7090109@toshiba.co.jp> Date: Fri, 14 Mar 2014 11:05:16 -0700 Cc: dhcwg@ietf.org, Matthew.Gillmore@itron.com Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Message-Id: References: <20140313143942.7850.75117.idtracker@ietfa.amsl.com> <53224737.7090109@toshiba.co.jp> To: Yusuke DOI X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.1874) X-Spam: [F=0.5000000000; STSI=0.500(22); STSM=0.500(22); CM=0.500; MH=0.500(2014031413); spf=0.500; SC=none] X-MAIL-FROM: X-SOURCE-IP: [172.23.208.173] X-AnalysisOut: [v=2.0 cv=L5KqtZv8 c=1 sm=1 a=KLNsE-TE2JoA:10 a=VSTLsr1XqWg] X-AnalysisOut: [A:10 a=BLceEmwcHowA:10 a=kj9zAlcOel0A:10 a=DGbFYnXxAAAA:8 ] X-AnalysisOut: [a=48vgC7mUAAAA:8 a=VxJjGcez3lWjSk1F-JUA:9 a=CjuIK1q_8ugA:1] X-AnalysisOut: [0 a=jO5m9I1TzjoA:10 a=Wc1wM8_KZsUA:10 a=jM_x9b4JT8QA:10 a=] X-AnalysisOut: [lZB815dzVvQA:10 a=IpQodgfirWv5BDHn:21 a=KQ_62PePMFTrdWxE:2] X-AnalysisOut: [1] Received-SPF: None X-TM-AS-MML: No Having an optional fragment at the head of an option will likely require custom code specific to this option in anything that has to read or write it (as opposed to just relaying it) and may be an impediment to adoption. See section 6 of draft-ietf-dhc-option-guidelines. Since the only difference between the two forms is whether the address is present or not, you should place the address at the end of the option, and mark it as optional, as suggested by section 5 of the option guidelines draft. Note that, regardless of whether you place the address at the front of the option or the end of the option, you will not be able to count on any particular alignment of the address, or anything else, since there are no alignment guarantees in the protocol (section 19 of the option guidelines draft). - Matt Ref: http://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-dhc-option-guidelines-17 On Mar 13, 2014, at 5:03 PM, Yusuke DOI = wrote: > Dear DHC folks, >=20 > I'm proposing an DHCPv6 option for configuration of MPL parameters = that are (typically) used in wireless mesh networks. >=20 > The I-D is just adopted as roll WG draft. May I ask the dhc wg (again) = to take a look on it? >=20 > I need to apologize I failed to follow a Bernie's suggestion given at = last August. >=20 > http://www.ietf.org/mail-archive/web/dhcwg/current/msg14587.html >=20 >> 2. While it may cost a few octets, I would strongly encourage you to >> use separate fields for some items (such as C_K and DM_K). This will >> cost you one octet but keeps the encoding simpler (flags, C_K, and >> DM_K octets). >=20 > I tried to follow the comment, and at the same time, I think it should = be aligned with word boundary, *and*, it should be compact as possible = because it's intended to be used in wireless mesh networks (I feel too = nervous if I waste 24 bits of all of the DHCP responses on the all mesh = networks of ours). This results following awkward format. I personally = think it is even more simple to make some bitmasking (and we are get = used to it) than the following optlen=3D{17|33} format. Currently, the = proposal is still in the previous format with some 5-bit field and a bit = for a flag. >=20 > [the format to have independent C_K/DM_K octet -- *not* included in = the I-D] >=20 > (if option_len =3D 17 ) >=20 > 0 1 2 3 > 0 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 0 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 0 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 0 1 > +-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+ > | OPTION_MPL_PARAMETERS | option_len | > +-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+ > | DM_IMIN | DM_IMAX | > +-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+ > | DM_T_EXP | C_IMIN | > +-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+ > | C_IMAX | C_T_EXP | > +-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+ > | SE_LIFETIME | FLAGS | C_K | > +-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+ > | DM_K | > +-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+ >=20 > (if option_len =3D 33 ) > 0 1 2 3 > 0 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 0 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 0 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 0 1 > +-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+ > | OPTION_MPL_PARAMETERS | option_len | > +-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+ > | MPL Domain Address (128bits) | > +-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+ > | (cont'ed) | > +-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+ > | (cont'ed) | > +-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+ > | (cont'ed) | > +-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+ > | DM_IMIN | DM_IMAX | > +-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+ > | DM_T_EXP | C_IMIN | > +-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+ > | C_IMAX | C_T_EXP | > +-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+ > | SE_LIFETIME | FLAGS | C_K | > +-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+ > | DM_K | > +-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+ >=20 >=20 > Thanks, >=20 > Yusuke >=20 >=20 > -------- Original Message -------- > Subject: I-D Action: = draft-ietf-roll-mpl-parameter-configuration-00.txt > Date: Thu, 13 Mar 2014 07:39:42 -0700 > From: internet-drafts@ietf.org > Reply-To: internet-drafts@ietf.org > To: i-d-announce@ietf.org > CC: roll@ietf.org >=20 >=20 > A New Internet-Draft is available from the on-line Internet-Drafts = directories. > This draft is a work item of the Routing Over Low power and Lossy = networks Working Group of the IETF. >=20 > Title : MPL Parameter Configuration Option for DHCPv6 > Authors : Yusuke Doi > Matthew Gillmore > Filename : = draft-ietf-roll-mpl-parameter-configuration-00.txt > Pages : 9 > Date : 2014-03-13 >=20 > Abstract: > This draft defines a way to configure MPL parameter set via DHCPv6 > option. MPL has a set of parameters to control its behavior, and = the > parameter set is often configured as a network-wide parameter = because > the parameter set should be identical for each MPL forwarder in an > MPL domain. Using the MPL Parameter Configuration Option defined in > this document, a network can be configured with a single set of MPL > parameter easily. >=20 >=20 > The IETF datatracker status page for this draft is: > = https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-roll-mpl-parameter-configurati= on/ >=20 > There's also a htmlized version available at: > = http://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-roll-mpl-parameter-configuration-00 >=20 >=20 > Please note that it may take a couple of minutes from the time of = submission > until the htmlized version and diff are available at tools.ietf.org. >=20 > Internet-Drafts are also available by anonymous FTP at: > ftp://ftp.ietf.org/internet-drafts/ >=20 > _______________________________________________ > I-D-Announce mailing list > I-D-Announce@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/i-d-announce > Internet-Draft directories: http://www.ietf.org/shadow.html > or ftp://ftp.ietf.org/ietf/1shadow-sites.txt >=20 >=20 > _______________________________________________ > dhcwg mailing list > dhcwg@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/dhcwg --------------010905070002060309050907-- From nobody Wed Mar 19 18:23:05 2014 Return-Path: X-Original-To: roll@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: roll@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 24DC21A0878 for ; Wed, 19 Mar 2014 18:23:04 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.377 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.377 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, FM_FORGED_GMAIL=0.622, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id smfJM7PCN9U1 for ; Wed, 19 Mar 2014 18:23:02 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail-vc0-x22e.google.com (mail-vc0-x22e.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:400c:c03::22e]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id C05701A0848 for ; Wed, 19 Mar 2014 18:23:02 -0700 (PDT) Received: by mail-vc0-f174.google.com with SMTP id ld13so165809vcb.19 for ; Wed, 19 Mar 2014 18:22:53 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=googlemail.com; s=20120113; h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:date:message-id:subject:from:to :content-type; bh=p0j0gSaD+Sl3Aq3ongENLk1yX8c40iN5K61rN1KVS1Q=; b=a7pPNsg4pT+MHVm7+1xw0HZgUHog4ZJQXivyQQhm3CcilH8b612MDQ/P+dbDAMOob+ DdqPxntm+RIyZy9bUIDUg2ujc2yXLxyxY3RVd6tFC4aSmQ7ilbeTYcQOYouMaHndjqBv VjacjAfM2O0hUHtCUo5r39YPsGLIeArfJZP/isGGtJMw54qJuzWNgpkn7t+R+eyoS37z lwlQxkTHKgg7SBXe74FybAOtsZqpJ81r96Q8Y9mafSdbf+wWHOw/zbrl8Amkte94JRMk n19nogP5qUCe/Nt5ErVNL0jg6qwwGU2Jnpi4maNYk9sYG5m8NjbKfTK4e3gc/u1YGkrZ v8wQ== MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Received: by 10.220.83.4 with SMTP id d4mr1048291vcl.39.1395278573778; Wed, 19 Mar 2014 18:22:53 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.221.16.3 with HTTP; Wed, 19 Mar 2014 18:22:53 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: <532A3F5A.6030603@toshiba.co.jp> References: <53253658.8010700@toshiba.co.jp> <532A3F5A.6030603@toshiba.co.jp> Date: Wed, 19 Mar 2014 22:22:53 -0300 Message-ID: From: Ines Robles To: Routing Over Low power and Lossy networks Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=e89a8f921906c0bbb304f4ff9b6d Archived-At: http://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/roll/SKm9OPF_I4ObZuUXvpsiJ37AHZE Subject: Re: [Roll] Fwd: Re: [dhcwg] Review Request (Fwd: I-D Action: draft-ietf-roll-mpl-parameter-configuration-00.txt) X-BeenThere: roll@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list Reply-To: Routing Over Low power and Lossy networks List-Id: Routing Over Low power and Lossy networks List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 20 Mar 2014 01:23:04 -0000 --e89a8f921906c0bbb304f4ff9b6d Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Thank you Yusuke for keeping us posted. Kind Regards, 2014-03-19 22:07 GMT-03:00 Yusuke DOI : > Hi, > > Let me inform you there was a comment on my draft from Matthew Ryan. I > will cross-post if any further discussion occurs. > > Regards, > > Yusuke > > _______________________________________________ > Roll mailing list > Roll@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/roll > > --e89a8f921906c0bbb304f4ff9b6d Content-Type: text/html; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Thank you Yusuke for keeping us posted.

Kind Regards,

2014-03-19 22:07 GMT-03:00 Yusuke DOI <yusuke.doi@toshiba.= co.jp>:
Hi,

Let me inform you there was a comment on my draft from Matthew Ryan. I will= cross-post if any further discussion occurs.

Regards,

Yusuke

_______________________________________________
Roll mailing list
Roll@ietf.org
ht= tps://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/roll


--e89a8f921906c0bbb304f4ff9b6d-- From nobody Thu Mar 20 09:07:59 2014 Return-Path: X-Original-To: roll@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: roll@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 01ED81A08EF for ; Thu, 20 Mar 2014 09:07:56 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.447 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.447 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, RP_MATCHES_RCVD=-0.547] autolearn=ham Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id W9XClt21_MOs for ; Thu, 20 Mar 2014 09:07:54 -0700 (PDT) Received: from grenache.tools.ietf.org (grenache.tools.ietf.org [IPv6:2a01:3f0:1:2::30]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 579461A08ED for ; Thu, 20 Mar 2014 09:07:53 -0700 (PDT) Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:46957 helo=grenache.tools.ietf.org ident=www-data) by grenache.tools.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.80) (envelope-from ) id 1WQfV6-0005Ju-3k; Thu, 20 Mar 2014 17:07:24 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: "roll issue tracker" X-Trac-Version: 0.12.3 Precedence: bulk Auto-Submitted: auto-generated X-Mailer: Trac 0.12.3, by Edgewall Software To: draft-ietf-roll-rpl-industrial-applicability.all@tools.ietf.org, mariainesrobles@gmail.com X-Trac-Project: roll Date: Thu, 20 Mar 2014 16:07:23 -0000 X-URL: http://tools.ietf.org/wg/roll/ X-Trac-Ticket-URL: http://trac.tools.ietf.org/wg/roll/trac/ticket/139#comment:1 Message-ID: <082.7520260db3f67cbb7522ab34c689e4c1@trac.tools.ietf.org> References: <067.165fcbc51e6d0f056aeefa9878aded53@trac.tools.ietf.org> X-Trac-Ticket-ID: 139 In-Reply-To: <067.165fcbc51e6d0f056aeefa9878aded53@trac.tools.ietf.org> X-SA-Exim-Connect-IP: 127.0.0.1 X-SA-Exim-Rcpt-To: draft-ietf-roll-rpl-industrial-applicability.all@tools.ietf.org, mariainesrobles@gmail.com, roll@ietf.org X-SA-Exim-Mail-From: trac+roll@trac.tools.ietf.org X-SA-Exim-Scanned: No (on grenache.tools.ietf.org); SAEximRunCond expanded to false Resent-To: mariainesrobles@gmail.com, , mcr+ietf@sandelman.ca, pthubert@cisco.com, robert.assimiti@nivis.com, tom.phinney@cox.net Archived-At: http://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/roll/Dkgmgtt5l1Zds85Syi_-DkpzwPM Cc: roll@ietf.org Subject: Re: [Roll] [roll] #139 (rpl-industrial-applicability): draft-ietf-roll-rpl-industrial-applicability - Add information for deployments X-BeenThere: roll@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Reply-To: roll@ietf.org List-Id: Routing Over Low power and Lossy networks List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 20 Mar 2014 16:07:56 -0000 #139: draft-ietf-roll-rpl-industrial-applicability - Add information for deployments Changes (by mariainesrobles@gmail.com): * status: new => closed * resolution: => wontfix Comment: Document abandoned: work moved to 6tisch. -- -------------------------------------+------------------------------------- Reporter: | Owner: draft-ietf-roll-rpl- mariainesrobles@gmail.com | industrial- Type: defect | applicability.all@tools.ietf.org Priority: major | Status: closed Component: rpl-industrial- | Milestone: applicability | Version: Severity: Active WG Document | Resolution: wontfix Keywords: | -------------------------------------+------------------------------------- Ticket URL: roll From nobody Thu Mar 20 09:08:16 2014 Return-Path: X-Original-To: roll@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: roll@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id ECBE41A08FA for ; Thu, 20 Mar 2014 09:08:12 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.447 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.447 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, RP_MATCHES_RCVD=-0.547] autolearn=ham Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id ujBakFTmKQQp for ; Thu, 20 Mar 2014 09:08:09 -0700 (PDT) Received: from grenache.tools.ietf.org (grenache.tools.ietf.org [IPv6:2a01:3f0:1:2::30]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id EDDE51A08F5 for ; Thu, 20 Mar 2014 09:08:08 -0700 (PDT) Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:46970 helo=grenache.tools.ietf.org ident=www-data) by grenache.tools.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.80) (envelope-from ) id 1WQfVW-0005Lt-H4; Thu, 20 Mar 2014 17:07:50 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: "roll issue tracker" X-Trac-Version: 0.12.3 Precedence: bulk Auto-Submitted: auto-generated X-Mailer: Trac 0.12.3, by Edgewall Software To: draft-ietf-roll-rpl-industrial-applicability.all@tools.ietf.org, mariainesrobles@gmail.com X-Trac-Project: roll Date: Thu, 20 Mar 2014 16:07:50 -0000 X-URL: http://tools.ietf.org/wg/roll/ X-Trac-Ticket-URL: http://trac.tools.ietf.org/wg/roll/trac/ticket/140#comment:1 Message-ID: <082.bf4b654c2cb8facf7cb325b364c85def@trac.tools.ietf.org> References: <067.fb15b11ea58a6e2b51d8df729853b3d9@trac.tools.ietf.org> X-Trac-Ticket-ID: 140 In-Reply-To: <067.fb15b11ea58a6e2b51d8df729853b3d9@trac.tools.ietf.org> X-SA-Exim-Connect-IP: 127.0.0.1 X-SA-Exim-Rcpt-To: draft-ietf-roll-rpl-industrial-applicability.all@tools.ietf.org, mariainesrobles@gmail.com, roll@ietf.org X-SA-Exim-Mail-From: trac+roll@trac.tools.ietf.org X-SA-Exim-Scanned: No (on grenache.tools.ietf.org); SAEximRunCond expanded to false Resent-To: mariainesrobles@gmail.com, , mcr+ietf@sandelman.ca, pthubert@cisco.com, robert.assimiti@nivis.com, tom.phinney@cox.net Archived-At: http://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/roll/NndnyNY23_iJfGGVRo5oZhx71Ks Cc: roll@ietf.org Subject: Re: [Roll] [roll] #140 (rpl-industrial-applicability): draft-ietf-roll-rpl-industrial-applicability - Describe how RPL security services there can be replaced X-BeenThere: roll@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Reply-To: roll@ietf.org List-Id: Routing Over Low power and Lossy networks List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 20 Mar 2014 16:08:13 -0000 #140: draft-ietf-roll-rpl-industrial-applicability - Describe how RPL security services there can be replaced Changes (by mariainesrobles@gmail.com): * status: new => closed * resolution: => wontfix Comment: Document abandoned: work moved to 6tisch. -- -------------------------------------+------------------------------------- Reporter: | Owner: draft-ietf-roll-rpl- mariainesrobles@gmail.com | industrial- Type: defect | applicability.all@tools.ietf.org Priority: major | Status: closed Component: rpl-industrial- | Milestone: applicability | Version: Severity: Active WG Document | Resolution: wontfix Keywords: | -------------------------------------+------------------------------------- Ticket URL: roll From nobody Thu Mar 20 09:08:42 2014 Return-Path: X-Original-To: roll@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: roll@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8487D1A08F2 for ; Thu, 20 Mar 2014 09:08:40 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.447 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.447 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, RP_MATCHES_RCVD=-0.547] autolearn=ham Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id PljTIiZnJcOb for ; Thu, 20 Mar 2014 09:08:38 -0700 (PDT) Received: from grenache.tools.ietf.org (grenache.tools.ietf.org [IPv6:2a01:3f0:1:2::30]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id AB2531A08F3 for ; Thu, 20 Mar 2014 09:08:38 -0700 (PDT) Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:46982 helo=grenache.tools.ietf.org ident=www-data) by grenache.tools.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.80) (envelope-from ) id 1WQfW3-0005NG-3L; Thu, 20 Mar 2014 17:08:23 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: "roll issue tracker" X-Trac-Version: 0.12.3 Precedence: bulk Auto-Submitted: auto-generated X-Mailer: Trac 0.12.3, by Edgewall Software To: draft-ietf-roll-rpl-industrial-applicability.all@tools.ietf.org, mariainesrobles@gmail.com X-Trac-Project: roll Date: Thu, 20 Mar 2014 16:08:23 -0000 X-URL: http://tools.ietf.org/wg/roll/ X-Trac-Ticket-URL: http://trac.tools.ietf.org/wg/roll/trac/ticket/141#comment:1 Message-ID: <082.3445bb2bee06f4b2e1091ae206eb6e4d@trac.tools.ietf.org> References: <067.5e8fd41c57599fa653476f8f5a56cb8b@trac.tools.ietf.org> X-Trac-Ticket-ID: 141 In-Reply-To: <067.5e8fd41c57599fa653476f8f5a56cb8b@trac.tools.ietf.org> X-SA-Exim-Connect-IP: 127.0.0.1 X-SA-Exim-Rcpt-To: draft-ietf-roll-rpl-industrial-applicability.all@tools.ietf.org, mariainesrobles@gmail.com, roll@ietf.org X-SA-Exim-Mail-From: trac+roll@trac.tools.ietf.org X-SA-Exim-Scanned: No (on grenache.tools.ietf.org); SAEximRunCond expanded to false Resent-To: mariainesrobles@gmail.com, , mcr+ietf@sandelman.ca, pthubert@cisco.com, robert.assimiti@nivis.com, tom.phinney@cox.net Archived-At: http://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/roll/BH0s0x0D_0XmLqz5QXziGkJEUgs Cc: roll@ietf.org Subject: Re: [Roll] [roll] #141 (rpl-industrial-applicability): draft-ietf-roll-rpl-industrial-applicability - Complete Security considerations during initial and incrremental deployment X-BeenThere: roll@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Reply-To: roll@ietf.org List-Id: Routing Over Low power and Lossy networks List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 20 Mar 2014 16:08:40 -0000 #141: draft-ietf-roll-rpl-industrial-applicability - Complete Security considerations during initial and incrremental deployment Changes (by mariainesrobles@gmail.com): * status: new => closed * resolution: => wontfix Comment: Document abandoned: work moved to 6tisch. -- -------------------------------------+------------------------------------- Reporter: | Owner: draft-ietf-roll-rpl- mariainesrobles@gmail.com | industrial- Type: defect | applicability.all@tools.ietf.org Priority: major | Status: closed Component: rpl-industrial- | Milestone: applicability | Version: Severity: Active WG Document | Resolution: wontfix Keywords: | -------------------------------------+------------------------------------- Ticket URL: roll From nobody Thu Mar 20 09:09:31 2014 Return-Path: X-Original-To: roll@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: roll@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id E41D71A08F1 for ; Thu, 20 Mar 2014 09:09:28 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.447 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.447 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, RP_MATCHES_RCVD=-0.547] autolearn=ham Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id gqDMMUV5SLti for ; Thu, 20 Mar 2014 09:09:26 -0700 (PDT) Received: from grenache.tools.ietf.org (grenache.tools.ietf.org [IPv6:2a01:3f0:1:2::30]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id B8BA21A08ED for ; Thu, 20 Mar 2014 09:09:26 -0700 (PDT) Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:47012 helo=grenache.tools.ietf.org ident=www-data) by grenache.tools.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.80) (envelope-from ) id 1WQfWo-0005R8-2g; Thu, 20 Mar 2014 17:09:10 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: "roll issue tracker" X-Trac-Version: 0.12.3 Precedence: bulk Auto-Submitted: auto-generated X-Mailer: Trac 0.12.3, by Edgewall Software To: draft-ietf-roll-rpl-industrial-applicability.all@tools.ietf.org, mariainesrobles@gmail.com X-Trac-Project: roll Date: Thu, 20 Mar 2014 16:09:10 -0000 X-URL: http://tools.ietf.org/wg/roll/ X-Trac-Ticket-URL: http://trac.tools.ietf.org/wg/roll/trac/ticket/138#comment:1 Message-ID: <082.d899a5e67d79a717cb10007dafdbaf0d@trac.tools.ietf.org> References: <067.1d143170c2f49fe562ea8159796aaa32@trac.tools.ietf.org> X-Trac-Ticket-ID: 138 In-Reply-To: <067.1d143170c2f49fe562ea8159796aaa32@trac.tools.ietf.org> X-SA-Exim-Connect-IP: 127.0.0.1 X-SA-Exim-Rcpt-To: draft-ietf-roll-rpl-industrial-applicability.all@tools.ietf.org, mariainesrobles@gmail.com, roll@ietf.org X-SA-Exim-Mail-From: trac+roll@trac.tools.ietf.org X-SA-Exim-Scanned: No (on grenache.tools.ietf.org); SAEximRunCond expanded to false Resent-To: mariainesrobles@gmail.com, , mcr+ietf@sandelman.ca, pthubert@cisco.com, robert.assimiti@nivis.com, tom.phinney@cox.net Archived-At: http://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/roll/LdmmTbaqQgYXyXcXvX1BIig94O8 Cc: roll@ietf.org Subject: Re: [Roll] [roll] #138 (rpl-industrial-applicability): draft-ietf-roll-rpl-industrial-applicability - Update reference to draft-ietf-roll-security-threats X-BeenThere: roll@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Reply-To: roll@ietf.org List-Id: Routing Over Low power and Lossy networks List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 20 Mar 2014 16:09:29 -0000 #138: draft-ietf-roll-rpl-industrial-applicability - Update reference to draft- ietf-roll-security-threats Changes (by mariainesrobles@gmail.com): * status: new => closed * resolution: => wontfix Comment: Document abandoned: work moved to 6tisch. -- -------------------------------------+------------------------------------- Reporter: | Owner: draft-ietf-roll-rpl- mariainesrobles@gmail.com | industrial- Type: defect | applicability.all@tools.ietf.org Priority: minor | Status: closed Component: rpl-industrial- | Milestone: applicability | Version: Severity: Active WG Document | Resolution: wontfix Keywords: | -------------------------------------+------------------------------------- Ticket URL: roll From nobody Thu Mar 20 09:15:41 2014 Return-Path: X-Original-To: roll@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: roll@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 93B201A0457 for ; Thu, 20 Mar 2014 09:15:38 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.9 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.9 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9] autolearn=ham Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 50Bz_jz8hnat for ; Thu, 20 Mar 2014 09:15:37 -0700 (PDT) Received: from ietfa.amsl.com (localhost [IPv6:::1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 769021A0771 for ; Thu, 20 Mar 2014 09:15:34 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit To: roll@ietf.org X-Test-IDTracker: no X-IETF-IDTracker: 5.2.0 Auto-Submitted: auto-generated Precedence: bulk Message-ID: <20140320161534.1607.36504.idtracker@ietfa.amsl.com> Date: Thu, 20 Mar 2014 09:15:34 -0700 From: IETF Secretariat Archived-At: http://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/roll/vtAgZiQvTvo8yt5Ln4dAEEaPbO8 Subject: [Roll] Milestones changed for roll WG X-BeenThere: roll@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Reply-To: Routing Over Low power and Lossy networks List-Id: Routing Over Low power and Lossy networks List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 20 Mar 2014 16:15:38 -0000 Changed milestone "Resolve question of whether to keep this in roll or 6tisch", resolved as "Done". URL: http://datatracker.ietf.org/wg/roll/charter/ From nobody Thu Mar 20 10:19:45 2014 Return-Path: X-Original-To: roll@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: roll@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 744591A07F6 for ; Thu, 20 Mar 2014 10:19:42 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.377 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.377 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, FM_FORGED_GMAIL=0.622, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id v817L8MZzV2O for ; Thu, 20 Mar 2014 10:19:41 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail-ve0-x22b.google.com (mail-ve0-x22b.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:400c:c01::22b]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 76FA31A03BF for ; Thu, 20 Mar 2014 10:19:40 -0700 (PDT) Received: by mail-ve0-f171.google.com with SMTP id cz12so1297153veb.2 for ; Thu, 20 Mar 2014 10:19:31 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=googlemail.com; s=20120113; h=mime-version:date:message-id:subject:from:to:cc:content-type; bh=xY/y9ksVvUxfDnZ6eiDI8fbps7tj+tREolPbESVVrQQ=; b=nz13hzqD8/FIgikM1ys/ImDZJHXAxovoBHBeNUvOR6A7vj8HRDuKCORwIbR8BEFwE4 qJ3rqN6Mk3L0NXhGVl9UEV+7m2ALOMUPLo6+g+gDIDx4i3QQSpQWcbPVtXRVd3ut+5gW L5HB3YcCt1CaPXS7j7eBzHiKk4czm81jNy7t9Y1vwqx5/AjRHPt2h21asL/BxaGsGjUG OrgSl/9a+mvy9YlEvHIcct49QMrsFReQttjhF4OkjdPFz8mLlfydq0dGz+ERrpqCktAt vWpgUKlFCbrsJ1XoEV7z8SZPcTmuLR0GTqF6W1ExdmLyhOzvxJZTuXcVUTB/fGzGy41O Jdkg== MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Received: by 10.220.106.84 with SMTP id w20mr34664356vco.18.1395335971249; Thu, 20 Mar 2014 10:19:31 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.221.16.3 with HTTP; Thu, 20 Mar 2014 10:19:31 -0700 (PDT) Date: Thu, 20 Mar 2014 14:19:31 -0300 Message-ID: From: Ines Robles To: roll Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=047d7b3435c0e8a3de04f50cf802 Archived-At: http://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/roll/TWOdM6oAPCU1AAnupe-VIwu9FzM Cc: Michael Richardson Subject: [Roll] WG Call for Adoption: draft-vanderstok-roll-admin-local-policy X-BeenThere: roll@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list Reply-To: Routing Over Low power and Lossy networks List-Id: Routing Over Low power and Lossy networks List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 20 Mar 2014 17:19:42 -0000 --047d7b3435c0e8a3de04f50cf802 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Hi, We start a WG Adoption Call for draft-vanderstok-roll-admin-local-policy-00: MPL forwarder policy for multicast with admin-local scope URL:[ http://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-vanderstok-roll-admin-local-policy ] Please read the current revision and state you opinion either for or against adoption in the mailing list. This call for adoption ends, 3th April 2014. Thank you in advance, Kind Regards Michael & Ines --047d7b3435c0e8a3de04f50cf802 Content-Type: text/html; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

Hi,


We start a WG= Adoption Call for draft-vanderstok-roll-admin-local-policy-00: MPL forward= er policy for multicast with admin-local scope=A0


URL:[ http://d= atatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-vanderstok-roll-admin-local-policy=A0]=A0=


Please read the current revision a= nd state you opinion either for or against adoption in the mailing list.


This call for adoption ends, 3th A= pril 2014.


Thank you in advance,


Kind Regards


Michael & Ines

--047d7b3435c0e8a3de04f50cf802-- From nobody Thu Mar 20 16:51:36 2014 Return-Path: X-Original-To: roll@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: roll@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id D9D651A07F3 for ; Thu, 20 Mar 2014 16:51:30 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.277 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.277 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, FM_FORGED_GMAIL=0.622, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id fXsHcAoGZrjp for ; Thu, 20 Mar 2014 16:51:28 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail-ee0-x22b.google.com (mail-ee0-x22b.google.com [IPv6:2a00:1450:4013:c00::22b]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id C520D1A08D3 for ; Thu, 20 Mar 2014 16:51:18 -0700 (PDT) Received: by mail-ee0-f43.google.com with SMTP id e53so1235946eek.2 for ; Thu, 20 Mar 2014 16:51:09 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20120113; h=mime-version:reply-to:sender:in-reply-to:references:date:message-id :subject:from:to:cc:content-type; bh=OHG8w5RHgv1bhUHNYGOf52cEwCQYdzPiiQYQXqLypRc=; b=0VR3jY4Bim+zds5KWDomBg/9SeV75R2+kqgEduBb5Li6fK3ZOnOryW11B8LE5OdHgy 6g++gvnoSGQ+80iqitj4bFk68urI4ys7TmtqlyJTtj5M2cNmSuqtwezJ2PMsvtF37dPT aT8p4oKrj/y4yL3Z1mAJii7Dkv3g9q9hn38sDqX3GRGIMgSQaqa5NNcFlL/PEHavUbw3 l6jz0WmaAIGNlKhRh/CWWVGtxGBOXIH3FQK7vUZ0M852nXCyIZt9uWwyDyZYXRUD1toF Tc17tnAww5/7Lff2OPS/6VK1iI9fg3h8FiVoYMFseIIIFM+jq08guBkwWOsgo00jwXLg P/HQ== MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Received: by 10.15.10.3 with SMTP id f3mr44554004eet.1.1395359469220; Thu, 20 Mar 2014 16:51:09 -0700 (PDT) Sender: robert.cragie@gmail.com Received: by 10.14.116.131 with HTTP; Thu, 20 Mar 2014 16:51:09 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: References: Date: Thu, 20 Mar 2014 23:51:09 +0000 X-Google-Sender-Auth: bhg71-m5qt2HOmrBS0CyPkHHBec Message-ID: From: Robert Cragie To: Routing Over Low power and Lossy networks Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=001a11c3f68c7f393a04f51271b2 Archived-At: http://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/roll/XwbMEXLAezv0zFQPJyItRi0lfIQ Cc: Michael Richardson Subject: Re: [Roll] WG Call for Adoption: draft-vanderstok-roll-admin-local-policy X-BeenThere: roll@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list Reply-To: robert.cragie@gridmerge.com, Routing Over Low power and Lossy networks List-Id: Routing Over Low power and Lossy networks List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 20 Mar 2014 23:51:31 -0000 --001a11c3f68c7f393a04f51271b2 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 I have been in communication with Peter regarding this draft and I believe there will be a new revision out shortly. So I agree with adopting this draft but at revision 01. Robert On 20 March 2014 17:19, Ines Robles wrote: > Hi, > > > We start a WG Adoption Call for > draft-vanderstok-roll-admin-local-policy-00: MPL forwarder policy for > multicast with admin-local scope > > > URL:[ > http://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-vanderstok-roll-admin-local-policy > ] > > > Please read the current revision and state you opinion either for or > against adoption in the mailing list. > > > This call for adoption ends, 3th April 2014. > > > Thank you in advance, > > > Kind Regards > > > Michael & Ines > > > _______________________________________________ > Roll mailing list > Roll@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/roll > > --001a11c3f68c7f393a04f51271b2 Content-Type: text/html; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
I have been in communication with Peter regarding this dra= ft and I believe there will be a new revision out shortly. So I agree with = adopting this draft but at revision 01.

Robert


On 20 March 2= 014 17:19, Ines Robles <mariainesrobles@googlemail.com&g= t; wrote:

Hi,


We start a WG= Adoption Call for draft-vanderstok-roll-admin-local-policy-00: MPL forward= er policy for multicast with admin-local scope=A0


URL:[ http://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-vanderstok-roll-admin-loc= al-policy=A0]=A0


Please read the current revision a= nd state you opinion either for or against adoption in the mailing list.


This call for adoption ends, 3th A= pril 2014.


Thank you in advance,


Kind Regards


Michael & Ines


_______________________________________________
Roll mailing list
Roll@ietf.org
ht= tps://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/roll


--001a11c3f68c7f393a04f51271b2-- From nobody Mon Mar 24 12:04:51 2014 Return-Path: X-Original-To: roll@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: roll@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0129E1A02C1 for ; Mon, 24 Mar 2014 12:04:50 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.601 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.601 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW=-0.7, SPF_HELO_PASS=-0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 7SsgaWwKWsS2 for ; Mon, 24 Mar 2014 12:04:46 -0700 (PDT) Received: from na01-by2-obe.outbound.protection.outlook.com (mail-by2lp0237.outbound.protection.outlook.com [207.46.163.237]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id B37661A02C7 for ; Mon, 24 Mar 2014 12:04:46 -0700 (PDT) Received: from CO1PR04MB553.namprd04.prod.outlook.com (10.141.73.12) by CO1PR04MB554.namprd04.prod.outlook.com (10.141.73.17) with Microsoft SMTP Server (TLS) id 15.0.898.11; Mon, 24 Mar 2014 19:04:44 +0000 Received: from CO1PR04MB553.namprd04.prod.outlook.com ([169.254.12.235]) by CO1PR04MB553.namprd04.prod.outlook.com ([169.254.12.235]) with mapi id 15.00.0898.005; Mon, 24 Mar 2014 19:04:44 +0000 From: "Gillmore, Matthew" To: Routing Over Low power and Lossy networks Thread-Topic: [Roll] WG Call for Adoption: draft-vanderstok-roll-admin-local-policy Thread-Index: AQHPRGCkC7shzMvYiUaDngTl9QBSsZrwntDg Date: Mon, 24 Mar 2014 19:04:43 +0000 Message-ID: <958ea9a0749c4e6a822055e86cb811af@CO1PR04MB553.namprd04.prod.outlook.com> References: In-Reply-To: Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: yes X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-originating-ip: [68.41.67.117] x-forefront-prvs: 01604FB62B x-forefront-antispam-report: =?us-ascii?Q?SFV:NSPM; SFS:(10019001)(428001)(189002)(199002)(504964003)(7?= =?us-ascii?Q?1364002)(377454003)(50944004)(31966008)(74316001)(74502001)(?= =?us-ascii?Q?47446002)(74662001)(77982001)(15395725003)(59766001)(7436600?= =?us-ascii?Q?1)(87266001)(93136001)(93516002)(86362001)(33646001)(1961731?= =?us-ascii?Q?5010)(94316002)(95416001)(81342001)(69226001)(17760045001)(7?= =?us-ascii?Q?4876001)(97186001)(80022001)(65816001)(79102001)(66066001)(1?= =?us-ascii?Q?6236675002)(20776003)(63696002)(2656002)(87936001)(224303002?= =?us-ascii?Q?)(85306002)(97336001)(95666003)(81542001)(19609705001)(98676?= =?us-ascii?Q?001)(15202345003)(81816001)(15975445006)(81686001)(182060150?= =?us-ascii?Q?23)(19300405004)(80976001)(19580395003)(19580405001)(8332200?= =?us-ascii?Q?1)(53806001)(77096001)(54356001)(56816005)(90146001)(4610200?= =?us-ascii?Q?1)(47976001)(49866001)(50986001)(94946001)(47736001)(5185600?= =?us-ascii?Q?1)(76482001)(4396001)(54316002)(56776001)(85852003)(92566001?= =?us-ascii?Q?)(19618635001)(76576001)(76786001)(76796001)(24736002)(56240?= =?us-ascii?Q?4015);DIR:OUT;SFP:1102;SCL:1;SRVR:CO1PR04MB554;H:CO1PR04MB55?= =?us-ascii?Q?3.namprd04.prod.outlook.com;FPR:BCF20110.8D3697E9.7BD8B156.4?= =?us-ascii?Q?5DBC9A.201D6;MLV:sfv;PTR:InfoNoRecords;MX:1;A:1;LANG:en;?= received-spf: None (: itron.com does not designate permitted sender hosts) Content-Type: multipart/related; boundary="_008_958ea9a0749c4e6a822055e86cb811afCO1PR04MB553namprd04pro_"; type="multipart/alternative" MIME-Version: 1.0 X-OriginatorOrg: itron.com Archived-At: http://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/roll/19WP0N6rKNi7mHBHk7hQgJ8EcsU Cc: Michael Richardson Subject: Re: [Roll] WG Call for Adoption: draft-vanderstok-roll-admin-local-policy X-BeenThere: roll@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list Reply-To: Routing Over Low power and Lossy networks List-Id: Routing Over Low power and Lossy networks List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 24 Mar 2014 19:04:50 -0000 --_008_958ea9a0749c4e6a822055e86cb811afCO1PR04MB553namprd04pro_ Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="_000_958ea9a0749c4e6a822055e86cb811afCO1PR04MB553namprd04pro_" --_000_958ea9a0749c4e6a822055e86cb811afCO1PR04MB553namprd04pro_ Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hi, I agree with adopting this draft. Thanks MKG [Description: http://marketing.itron.com/campaign/ribbon_logo_rgb_81h.jpg]<= https://www.itron.com/> Matthew Gillmore Strategic Standards Architect, Office of the CTO Mobile: +1.517.745.7350 Knowledge to Shape Your Future [Description: http://marketing.itron.com/campaign/social_media_icon_twitter= 29.jpg] [Description: http://marketing.itron.= com/campaign/social_media_icon_facebook29.jpg] [Description: http://marketing.itron.com/campaign/social_media_ico= n_linkedin29.jpg] [Desc= ription: http://marketing.itron.com/campaign/social_media_icon_youtube29.jp= g] From: Roll [mailto:roll-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of Ines Robles Sent: Thursday, March 20, 2014 1:20 PM To: roll Cc: Michael Richardson Subject: [Roll] WG Call for Adoption: draft-vanderstok-roll-admin-local-pol= icy Hi, We start a WG Adoption Call for draft-vanderstok-roll-admin-local-policy-00= : MPL forwarder policy for multicast with admin-local scope URL:[ http://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-vanderstok-roll-admin-local-pol= icy ] Please read the current revision and state you opinion either for or agains= t adoption in the mailing list. This call for adoption ends, 3th April 2014. Thank you in advance, Kind Regards Michael & Ines --_000_958ea9a0749c4e6a822055e86cb811afCO1PR04MB553namprd04pro_ Content-Type: text/html; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

Hi,

 <= /p>

I agree with adopting thi= s draft.

 <= /p>

Thanks<= /p>

MKG

 <= /p>

3D"Description:=

Matthew Gillmore

Strategic Standards Architect= , Office of the CTO
Mobile: +1.517.745.7350
Knowledge to Shape Your Future

3D"Desc=  3D"Description:  3D"Des=  3D"Description:=

 <= /p>

 <= /p>

From: Roll [ma= ilto:roll-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of Ines Robles
Sent: Thursday, March 20, 2014 1:20 PM
To: roll
Cc: Michael Richardson
Subject: [Roll] WG Call for Adoption: draft-vanderstok-roll-admin-lo= cal-policy

 

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f//Z --_008_958ea9a0749c4e6a822055e86cb811afCO1PR04MB553namprd04pro_-- From nobody Fri Mar 28 12:57:30 2014 Return-Path: X-Original-To: roll@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: roll@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id CC75F1A06CD; Fri, 28 Mar 2014 12:57:26 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.9 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.9 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9] autolearn=ham Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id uEkHgE6u0ahg; Fri, 28 Mar 2014 12:57:25 -0700 (PDT) Received: from ietfa.amsl.com (localhost [IPv6:::1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 86C541A0746; Fri, 28 Mar 2014 12:57:23 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: internet-drafts@ietf.org To: i-d-announce@ietf.org X-Test-IDTracker: no X-IETF-IDTracker: 5.2.0 Auto-Submitted: auto-generated Precedence: bulk Message-ID: <20140328195723.26738.75131.idtracker@ietfa.amsl.com> Date: Fri, 28 Mar 2014 12:57:23 -0700 Archived-At: http://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/roll/tKo3iFj1jNkQLJKx11T9yFk8cn8 Cc: roll@ietf.org Subject: [Roll] I-D Action: draft-ietf-roll-trickle-mcast-08.txt X-BeenThere: roll@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Reply-To: Routing Over Low power and Lossy networks List-Id: Routing Over Low power and Lossy networks List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 28 Mar 2014 19:57:27 -0000 A New Internet-Draft is available from the on-line Internet-Drafts directories. This draft is a work item of the Routing Over Low power and Lossy networks Working Group of the IETF. Title : Multicast Protocol for Low power and Lossy Networks (MPL) Authors : Jonathan W. Hui Richard Kelsey Filename : draft-ietf-roll-trickle-mcast-08.txt Pages : 25 Date : 2014-03-28 Abstract: This document specifies the Multicast Protocol for Low power and Lossy Networks (MPL) that provides IPv6 multicast forwarding in constrained networks. MPL avoids the need to construct or maintain any multicast forwarding topology, disseminating messages to all MPL Forwarders in an MPL Domain. MPL uses the Trickle algorithm to manage message transmissions for both control and data-plane messages. Different Trickle parameter configurations allow MPL to trade between dissemination latency and transmission efficiency. The IETF datatracker status page for this draft is: https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-roll-trickle-mcast/ There's also a htmlized version available at: http://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-roll-trickle-mcast-08 A diff from the previous version is available at: http://www.ietf.org/rfcdiff?url2=draft-ietf-roll-trickle-mcast-08 Please note that it may take a couple of minutes from the time of submission until the htmlized version and diff are available at tools.ietf.org. Internet-Drafts are also available by anonymous FTP at: ftp://ftp.ietf.org/internet-drafts/