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From: "Pascal Thubert (pthubert)" <pthubert@cisco.com>
To: Routing Over Low power and Lossy networks <roll@ietf.org>, "consultancy@vanderstok.org" <consultancy@vanderstok.org>
Thread-Topic: [Roll] RPLinfo review
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Date: Fri, 3 Jun 2016 14:23:11 +0000
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Subject: Re: [Roll] RPLinfo review
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From: "Pascal Thubert (pthubert)" <pthubert@cisco.com>
To: Routing Over Low power and Lossy networks <roll@ietf.org>
Thread-Topic: [Roll] RPLinfo review
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Subject: Re: [Roll] RPLinfo review
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Yes, normally instances are logical beasts that operate as ship in the nigh=
t. Think Vlans.

Cheers,

Pascal


> -----Original Message-----
> From: Roll [mailto:roll-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of Michael Richardson
> Sent: mardi 31 mai 2016 04:53
> To: Routing Over Low power and Lossy networks <roll@ietf.org>
> Subject: Re: [Roll] RPLinfo review
>=20
>=20
> Ines  Robles <mariainesrobles@googlemail.com> wrote:
>     > Thanks for the clarification.
>=20
>     > We are just considering here one RPLInstance.
>=20
>     > Working with different RPLInstances, involves deeply analysis, whic=
h we
>     > could do in the future. But, actually I dont know if it is
>=20
> In general, you have to leave one instance (popping all artifacts as if g=
oing out
> to the Internet), and then enter the new instance.
>=20
> It matters not if these are two RPLinstances (by instanceID), or two diff=
erent
> LLNs seperated by the Internet.
>=20
> --
> Michael Richardson <mcr+IETF@sandelman.ca>, Sandelman Software Works  -=
=3D
> IPv6 IoT consulting =3D-
>=20
>=20


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From: "Nancy Cam-Winget (ncamwing)" <ncamwing@cisco.com>
To: Suresh Krishnan <suresh.krishnan@ericsson.com>, The IESG <iesg@ietf.org>
Thread-Topic: Suresh Krishnan's No Objection on draft-ietf-roll-applicability-ami-13: (with COMMENT)
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Subject: Re: [Roll] Suresh Krishnan's No Objection on draft-ietf-roll-applicability-ami-13: (with COMMENT)
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Hi Suresh,

Thanks the comments, please see responses/comments below:

On 5/3/16, 11:42 AM, "Suresh Krishnan" <suresh.krishnan@ericsson.com>
wrote:

>Suresh Krishnan has entered the following ballot position for
>draft-ietf-roll-applicability-ami-13: No Objection
>
>When responding, please keep the subject line intact and reply to all
>email addresses included in the To and CC lines. (Feel free to cut this
>introductory paragraph, however.)
>
>
>Please refer to https://www.ietf.org/iesg/statement/discuss-criteria.html
>for more information about IESG DISCUSS and COMMENT positions.
>
>
>The document, along with other ballot positions, can be found here:
>https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-roll-applicability-ami/
>
>
>
>----------------------------------------------------------------------
>COMMENT:
>----------------------------------------------------------------------
>
>Section 1.2: Required reading - Why is the item [surveySG] in required
>reading not part of the normative references?
[NCW] I missed this one as we previously had discussions as to which should
be Normative vs. Informative.  Given that this is required reading, I
will move it back to normative.


>
>Section 1.3: Please expand RPL before first use and add a reference to
>RFC6550
[NCW] I=B9d presumed having the title be first use would suffice.  But will
add here with reference.


>
>Section 2: Is this section really required? Seems like a summarization of
>the RPL RFC. At least consider removing the part that starts with  "RPL
>was designed to meet the following application requirements:" and
>mentions a list of requirement RFCs. This list does not seem relevant
>here and is also covered in the RPL spec itself.
[NCW] A summary was felt needed to relax enforcement of readers read the
full RFC.  But can remove the reference as suggested.


>
>Section 4.1: This does not sound right. Isn't the periodic meter read
>traffic going the other direction? " The traffic generated by the
>head-end server and destined to metering devices is dominated by periodic
>meter reads,"
[NCW+DP] We are missing the trigger, so we can update the sentence to read:
=B3The traffic generated by the head-end server and
   destined to metering devices is dominated by periodic meter read
requests,
   while traffic generated by the metering devices is typically
   uniformly spread over some periodic read time-window.=B2


>
>Section 7.4.1: Please add a reference the trickle algorithm at first use.
>e.g. "Trickle [RFC6206] was designed to be..."
[NCW] Will do.

>
>


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From: "Nancy Cam-Winget (ncamwing)" <ncamwing@cisco.com>
To: Susan Hares <shares@ndzh.com>, "draft-ietf-roll-applicability-ami@ietf.org" <draft-ietf-roll-applicability-ami@ietf.org>
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Subject: Re: [Roll] draft-ietf-roll-applicability-ami-13.txt
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--_000_D37E1766174968ncamwingciscocom_
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Hi Sue,

Many thanks for the careful review...we will of course address the editoria=
l nits and have further comments below:

From: Susan Hares <shares@ndzh.com<mailto:shares@ndzh.com>>
Date: Thursday, May 5, 2016 at 1:46 AM
To: "draft-ietf-roll-applicability-ami@ietf.org<mailto:draft-ietf-roll-appl=
icability-ami@ietf.org>" <draft-ietf-roll-applicability-ami@ietf.org<mailto=
:draft-ietf-roll-applicability-ami@ietf.org>>
Cc: 'Joel jaeggli' <joelja@bogus.com<mailto:joelja@bogus.com>>, 'Gunter Van=
 De Velde' <guntervandeveldecc@icloud.com<mailto:guntervandeveldecc@icloud.=
com>>, "Benoit Claise (bclaise)" <bclaise@cisco.com<mailto:bclaise@cisco.co=
m>>, "ops-dir@ietf.org<mailto:ops-dir@ietf.org>" <ops-dir@ietf.org<mailto:o=
ps-dir@ietf.org>>, "roll@ietf.org<mailto:roll@ietf.org>" <roll@ietf.org<mai=
lto:roll@ietf.org>>
Subject: draft-ietf-roll-applicability-ami-13.txt

Nancy, Jonathan, Daniel:

I have reviewed this document as part of the Operational directorate's ongo=
ing effort to review all IETF documents being processed by the IESG.  These=
  comments were written with the intent of improving the operational aspect=
s of the
IETF drafts. Comments that are not addressed in last call may be included i=
n AD reviews during the IESG review.  Document editors and WG chairs should=
 treat these comments just like any other last call comments.

Status of draft:  Ready for publication.   A few editorial nits found

Editorial nits:

#1 p 7 in 4.1 paragraph 1

Old/the frequency of large file transfers, e.g., firmware download of all m=
etering devices, is typically much lower than the frequency of sending conf=
iguration messages or queries. /

New / Old/the frequency of large file transfers (e.g., firmware download of=
 all metering devices) is typically much lower than the frequency of sendin=
g configuration messages or queries. /

Why: use of the (e.g..... ) should be common across paragraph.

[NCW]  I've made the edit for the next revision per your suggestion and to =
keep consistency.

#2 p. 11 Concerned about RFCs text in 7.1.3

"Additional metrics may be defined in companion RFCs."
Editorial comment:  Is this really a statement for an RFCs?  This sentence =
may be sufficient, but it seemed a bit odd.

[NCW+DP]  The working group decided that this was needed as this is still a=
n evolving system, it was felt that the metrics would continue to evolve an=
d thus the ones defined in RFC6551 would be a start; with the expectation t=
hat more would follow.

#3 p. 12 section 7.1.4 - same statement as in 7.1.3

[NCW+DP] As this is related to 7.1.3, the same logic applies

#4 p. 14 section 7.2.2 paragraph 3

Starting with "These include: Timetimeslotslotted channel... "

Editorial comment: It would be wiser to use a hanging text for this list.

Old/
   These include: Timetimeslotslotted channel hopping
   (TSCH), specifically designed for application domains such as process
   automation, Low latency deterministic networks (LLDN), for
   application domains such as factory automation, Deterministic and
   synchronous multi-channel extension (DSME), for general industrial
   and commercial application domains that includes Channel diversity to
   increase network robustness, and Asynchronous multi-channel
   adaptation (AMCA), for large infrastructure application domains.
/
New
These include:

=B7         Timetimeslotslotted channel hopping  (TSCH):   specifically des=
igned for application domains such as process

automation,

=B7         Low latency deterministic networks (LLDN):   for   application =
domains such as factory automation,

=B7          Deterministic and synchronous multi-channel extension (DSME): =
 for general industrial and commercial application domains that includes Ch=
annel diversity to increase network robustness, and

=B7         Asynchronous multi-channel adaptation (AMCA):  for large infras=
tructure application domains.
/
 [NCW] Done.



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<div>Hi Sue,</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>Many thanks for the careful review&#8230;we will of course address the=
 editorial nits and have further comments below:</div>
<div><br>
</div>
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<span style=3D"font-weight:bold">From: </span>Susan Hares &lt;<a href=3D"ma=
ilto:shares@ndzh.com">shares@ndzh.com</a>&gt;<br>
<span style=3D"font-weight:bold">Date: </span>Thursday, May 5, 2016 at 1:46=
 AM<br>
<span style=3D"font-weight:bold">To: </span>&quot;<a href=3D"mailto:draft-i=
etf-roll-applicability-ami@ietf.org">draft-ietf-roll-applicability-ami@ietf=
.org</a>&quot; &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:draft-ietf-roll-applicability-ami@ietf=
.org">draft-ietf-roll-applicability-ami@ietf.org</a>&gt;<br>
<span style=3D"font-weight:bold">Cc: </span>'Joel jaeggli' &lt;<a href=3D"m=
ailto:joelja@bogus.com">joelja@bogus.com</a>&gt;, 'Gunter Van De Velde' &lt=
;<a href=3D"mailto:guntervandeveldecc@icloud.com">guntervandeveldecc@icloud=
.com</a>&gt;, &quot;Benoit Claise (bclaise)&quot; &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:bcl=
aise@cisco.com">bclaise@cisco.com</a>&gt;,
 &quot;<a href=3D"mailto:ops-dir@ietf.org">ops-dir@ietf.org</a>&quot; &lt;<=
a href=3D"mailto:ops-dir@ietf.org">ops-dir@ietf.org</a>&gt;, &quot;<a href=
=3D"mailto:roll@ietf.org">roll@ietf.org</a>&quot; &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:rol=
l@ietf.org">roll@ietf.org</a>&gt;<br>
<span style=3D"font-weight:bold">Subject: </span>draft-ietf-roll-applicabil=
ity-ami-13.txt
<br>
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--></style><!--[if gte mso 9]><xml>
<o:shapedefaults v:ext=3D"edit" spidmax=3D"1026" />
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<o:shapelayout v:ext=3D"edit">
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<div lang=3D"EN-US" link=3D"blue" vlink=3D"purple">
<div class=3D"WordSection1">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">Nancy, Jonathan, Daniel: <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">I have reviewed this document as part of the Operati=
onal directorate's ongoing effort to review all IETF documents being proces=
sed by the IESG.&nbsp; These &nbsp;comments were written with the intent of=
 improving the operational aspects of the
<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">IETF drafts. Comments that are not addressed in last=
 call may be included in AD reviews during the IESG review.&nbsp; Document =
editors and WG chairs should treat these comments just like any other last =
call comments.<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">Status of draft:&nbsp; Ready for publication.&nbsp; =
&nbsp;A few editorial nits found<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><b><i>Editorial nits: <o:p></o:p></i></b></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">#1 p 7 in 4.1 paragraph 1 <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">Old/the frequency of large file transfers, e.g., fir=
mware download of all metering devices, is typically much lower than the fr=
equency of sending configuration messages or queries. /<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">New / Old/the frequency of large file transfers (e.g=
., firmware download of all metering devices) is typically much lower than =
the frequency of sending configuration messages or queries. /<o:p></o:p></p=
>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">Why: use of the (e.g&#8230;.. ) should be common acr=
oss paragraph.</p>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</span>
<div>
<p style=3D"margin: 0px; font-size: 15px; font-family: Calibri;">[NCW]&nbsp=
; I&#8217;ve made the edit for the next revision per your suggestion and to=
 keep consistency.</p>
</div>
<span id=3D"OLK_SRC_BODY_SECTION">
<div xmlns:v=3D"urn:schemas-microsoft-com:vml" xmlns:o=3D"urn:schemas-micro=
soft-com:office:office" xmlns:w=3D"urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:word" x=
mlns:m=3D"http://schemas.microsoft.com/office/2004/12/omml" xmlns=3D"http:/=
/www.w3.org/TR/REC-html40">
<div lang=3D"EN-US" link=3D"blue" vlink=3D"purple">
<div class=3D"WordSection1">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">#2 p. 11 Concerned about RFCs text in 7.1.3<o:p></o:=
p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">&#8220;Additional metrics may be defined in companio=
n RFCs.&#8221; <o:p>
</o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">Editorial comment:&nbsp; Is this really a statement =
for an RFCs?&nbsp; This sentence may be sufficient, but it seemed a bit odd=
.</p>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</span>
<div>
<p style=3D"margin: 0px; font-size: 15px; font-family: Calibri;">[NCW&#43;D=
P]&nbsp; The working group decided that this was needed as this is still an=
 evolving system, it was felt that the metrics would continue to evolve and=
 thus the ones defined in RFC6551 would be
 a start; with the expectation that more would follow.</p>
</div>
<span id=3D"OLK_SRC_BODY_SECTION">
<div xmlns:v=3D"urn:schemas-microsoft-com:vml" xmlns:o=3D"urn:schemas-micro=
soft-com:office:office" xmlns:w=3D"urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:word" x=
mlns:m=3D"http://schemas.microsoft.com/office/2004/12/omml" xmlns=3D"http:/=
/www.w3.org/TR/REC-html40">
<div lang=3D"EN-US" link=3D"blue" vlink=3D"purple">
<div class=3D"WordSection1">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">#3 p. 12 section 7.1.4 &#8211; same statement as in =
7.1.3</p>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</span>
<div>
<p style=3D"margin: 0px; font-size: 15px; font-family: Calibri;">[NCW&#43;D=
P] As this is related to 7.1.3, the same logic applies</p>
</div>
<span id=3D"OLK_SRC_BODY_SECTION">
<div xmlns:v=3D"urn:schemas-microsoft-com:vml" xmlns:o=3D"urn:schemas-micro=
soft-com:office:office" xmlns:w=3D"urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:word" x=
mlns:m=3D"http://schemas.microsoft.com/office/2004/12/omml" xmlns=3D"http:/=
/www.w3.org/TR/REC-html40">
<div lang=3D"EN-US" link=3D"blue" vlink=3D"purple">
<div class=3D"WordSection1">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">#4 p. 14 section 7.2.2 paragraph 3 <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">Starting with &#8220;These include: Timetimeslotslot=
ted channel&#8230; &#8220;
<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">Editorial comment: It would be wiser to use a hangin=
g text for this list.
<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">Old/<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size: 10pt; font-family: 'Courie=
r New'; color: black;">&nbsp;&nbsp; These include: Timetimeslotslotted chan=
nel hopping<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size: 10pt; font-family: 'Courie=
r New'; color: black;">&nbsp;&nbsp; (TSCH), specifically designed for appli=
cation domains such as process<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size: 10pt; font-family: 'Courie=
r New'; color: black;">&nbsp;&nbsp; automation, Low latency deterministic n=
etworks (LLDN), for<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size: 10pt; font-family: 'Courie=
r New'; color: black;">&nbsp;&nbsp; application domains such as factory aut=
omation, Deterministic and<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size: 10pt; font-family: 'Courie=
r New'; color: black;">&nbsp;&nbsp; synchronous multi-channel extension (DS=
ME), for general industrial<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size: 10pt; font-family: 'Courie=
r New'; color: black;">&nbsp;&nbsp; and commercial application domains that=
 includes Channel diversity to<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size: 10pt; font-family: 'Courie=
r New'; color: black;">&nbsp;&nbsp; increase network robustness, and Asynch=
ronous multi-channel<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size: 10pt; font-family: 'Courie=
r New'; color: black;">&nbsp;&nbsp; adaptation (AMCA), for large infrastruc=
ture application domains.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">/<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">New<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">These include: <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoListParagraph" style=3D"text-indent:-.25in;mso-list:l0 level=
1 lfo2"><!--[if !supportLists]--><span style=3D""><span style=3D"mso-list:I=
gnore">=B7<span style=3D"font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-wei=
ght: normal; font-size: 7pt; line-height: normal; font-family: 'Times New R=
oman';">&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;
</span></span></span><!--[endif]-->Timetimeslotslotted channel hopping &nbs=
p;(TSCH):&nbsp; &nbsp;specifically designed for application domains such as=
 process<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoListParagraph">automation, <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoListParagraph" style=3D"text-indent:-.25in;mso-list:l0 level=
1 lfo2"><!--[if !supportLists]--><span style=3D""><span style=3D"mso-list:I=
gnore">=B7<span style=3D"font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-wei=
ght: normal; font-size: 7pt; line-height: normal; font-family: 'Times New R=
oman';">&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;
</span></span></span><!--[endif]-->Low latency deterministic networks (LLDN=
):&nbsp; &nbsp;for &nbsp;&nbsp;application domains such as factory automati=
on,<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoListParagraph" style=3D"text-indent:-.25in;mso-list:l0 level=
1 lfo2"><!--[if !supportLists]--><span style=3D""><span style=3D"mso-list:I=
gnore">=B7<span style=3D"font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-wei=
ght: normal; font-size: 7pt; line-height: normal; font-family: 'Times New R=
oman';">&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;
</span></span></span><!--[endif]-->&nbsp;Deterministic and synchronous mult=
i-channel extension (DSME): &nbsp;for general industrial and commercial app=
lication domains that includes Channel diversity to increase network robust=
ness, and
<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoListParagraph" style=3D"text-indent:-.25in;mso-list:l0 level=
1 lfo2"><!--[if !supportLists]--><span style=3D""><span style=3D"mso-list:I=
gnore">=B7<span style=3D"font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-wei=
ght: normal; font-size: 7pt; line-height: normal; font-family: 'Times New R=
oman';">&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;
</span></span></span><!--[endif]-->Asynchronous multi-channel adaptation (A=
MCA): &nbsp;for large infrastructure application domains.<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">/<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p><span style=3D"font-family: Calibri=
;">[NCW] Done.</span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</span>
</body>
</html>

--_000_D37E1766174968ncamwingciscocom_--


From nobody Wed Jun  8 21:52:04 2016
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To: Routing Over Low power and Lossy networks <roll@ietf.org>
From: Charlie Perkins <charles.perkins@earthlink.net>
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Subject: [Roll] AODV-RPL (draft-satish-roll-aodv-rpl-00.txt)
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Hello folks,

We have submitted AODV-RPL for consideration in the [roll] WG. AODV-RPL 
borrows some ideas from AODV and also handles asymmetric bidirectional 
routes.  Comments and suggestions will be appreciated!

Regards,
Charlie P.


From nobody Thu Jun  9 06:09:13 2016
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From: Suresh Krishnan <suresh.krishnan@ericsson.com>
To: "Nancy Cam-Winget (ncamwing)" <ncamwing@cisco.com>, The IESG <iesg@ietf.org>
Thread-Topic: Suresh Krishnan's No Objection on draft-ietf-roll-applicability-ami-13: (with COMMENT)
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Subject: Re: [Roll] Suresh Krishnan's No Objection on draft-ietf-roll-applicability-ami-13: (with COMMENT)
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Thanks Nancy. Your proposed changes look good to me.=0A=
=0A=
Regards=0A=
Suresh=0A=
=0A=
On 06/09/2016 12:15 AM, Nancy Cam-Winget (ncamwing) wrote:=0A=
> Hi Suresh,=0A=
>=0A=
> Thanks the comments, please see responses/comments below:=0A=
>=0A=
> On 5/3/16, 11:42 AM, "Suresh Krishnan" <suresh.krishnan@ericsson.com>=0A=
> wrote:=0A=
>=0A=
>> Suresh Krishnan has entered the following ballot position for=0A=
>> draft-ietf-roll-applicability-ami-13: No Objection=0A=
>>=0A=
>> When responding, please keep the subject line intact and reply to all=0A=
>> email addresses included in the To and CC lines. (Feel free to cut this=
=0A=
>> introductory paragraph, however.)=0A=
>>=0A=
>>=0A=
>> Please refer to https://www.ietf.org/iesg/statement/discuss-criteria.htm=
l=0A=
>> for more information about IESG DISCUSS and COMMENT positions.=0A=
>>=0A=
>>=0A=
>> The document, along with other ballot positions, can be found here:=0A=
>> https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-roll-applicability-ami/=0A=
>>=0A=
>>=0A=
>>=0A=
>> ----------------------------------------------------------------------=
=0A=
>> COMMENT:=0A=
>> ----------------------------------------------------------------------=
=0A=
>>=0A=
>> Section 1.2: Required reading - Why is the item [surveySG] in required=
=0A=
>> reading not part of the normative references?=0A=
> [NCW] I missed this one as we previously had discussions as to which shou=
ld=0A=
> be Normative vs. Informative.  Given that this is required reading, I=0A=
> will move it back to normative.=0A=
>=0A=
>=0A=
>>=0A=
>> Section 1.3: Please expand RPL before first use and add a reference to=
=0A=
>> RFC6550=0A=
> [NCW] I=B9d presumed having the title be first use would suffice.  But wi=
ll=0A=
> add here with reference.=0A=
>=0A=
>=0A=
>>=0A=
>> Section 2: Is this section really required? Seems like a summarization o=
f=0A=
>> the RPL RFC. At least consider removing the part that starts with  "RPL=
=0A=
>> was designed to meet the following application requirements:" and=0A=
>> mentions a list of requirement RFCs. This list does not seem relevant=0A=
>> here and is also covered in the RPL spec itself.=0A=
> [NCW] A summary was felt needed to relax enforcement of readers read the=
=0A=
> full RFC.  But can remove the reference as suggested.=0A=
>=0A=
>=0A=
>>=0A=
>> Section 4.1: This does not sound right. Isn't the periodic meter read=0A=
>> traffic going the other direction? " The traffic generated by the=0A=
>> head-end server and destined to metering devices is dominated by periodi=
c=0A=
>> meter reads,"=0A=
> [NCW+DP] We are missing the trigger, so we can update the sentence to rea=
d:=0A=
> =B3The traffic generated by the head-end server and=0A=
>     destined to metering devices is dominated by periodic meter read=0A=
> requests,=0A=
>     while traffic generated by the metering devices is typically=0A=
>     uniformly spread over some periodic read time-window.=B2=0A=
>=0A=
>=0A=
>>=0A=
>> Section 7.4.1: Please add a reference the trickle algorithm at first use=
.=0A=
>> e.g. "Trickle [RFC6206] was designed to be..."=0A=
> [NCW] Will do.=0A=
>=0A=
>>=0A=
>>=0A=
>=0A=
>=0A=
=0A=


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From: Ines  Robles <mariainesrobles@googlemail.com>
Date: Sat, 11 Jun 2016 04:24:38 +0300
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Subject: Re: [Roll] RPLinfo review
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Ok, thank you Pascal.

Ines

2016-06-03 17:23 GMT+03:00 Pascal Thubert (pthubert) <pthubert@cisco.com>:

> Hello Ines:
>
>
>
> Interworking between instances would be like redistributing a protocol
> within another. This yields loops and requires prioritization like admin
> distance in Cisoc routers. So far, we do not support that. Related: the
> draft on asym links added a capability for an upward instance (optimizing
> link metrics towards the root) to be coupled with a downwards instance, in
> case we have links with widely unbalanced metrics in both directions.
>
>
>
> Cheers,
>
>
>
> Pascal
>
>
>
> *From:* Roll [mailto:roll-bounces@ietf.org] *On Behalf Of *Ines Robles
> *Sent:* mardi 24 mai 2016 12:43
> *To:* consultancy@vanderstok.org
> *Cc:* Routing Over Low power and Lossy networks <roll@ietf.org>
> *Subject:* Re: [Roll] RPLinfo review
>
>
>
> btw, I just found a proposed approach for interaction between RPL Instances
>
>
>
> Barcelo, Marc, Alejandro Correa, Jose Lopez Vicario, and Antoni Morell.
> "Cooperative interaction among multiple RPL instances in wireless sensor
> networks." *Computer Communications* (2015).
>
>
>
> Cheers,
>
>
>
> Ines.
>
>
>
> 2016-05-24 13:26 GMT+03:00 Ines Robles <mariainesrobles@googlemail.com>:
>
> Ah, got it, thank you very much.
>
>
>
> Ines
>
>
>
> 2016-05-24 13:22 GMT+03:00 peter van der Stok <stokcons@xs4all.nl>:
>
> Hi,
>
> that means writing "one RPL instance" in figure 3 in stead of "RPL
> instance" to remove that ambiguity.
> Writing in the use case section a phrase as the one below will be more
> than sufficient for me.
>
> peter
>
> Ines  Robles schreef op 2016-05-24 12:16:
>
>
>
> Hi,
>
> Thanks for the clarification.
>
> We are just considering here one RPLInstance.
>
> Working with different RPLInstances, involves deeply analysis, which
> we could do in the future. But, actually I dont know if it is
> possible/useful to send a message from one RPL Instance to another one
> , since for example a RPL node may belong to multiple RPL Instances,
> and it may act as a router in some and as a leaf in others[1], for
> this reason it does not make sense to me sending packet from one
> RPLInstance to other RPLInstance. Besides the control messages has one
> field for RPLInstanceID, it does not have RPLInstanceID origen or
> RPLInstanceID dst.
>
> What do you think?
>
> Thank you,
>
> Ines
>
> [1] RFC6550. Section 5. RFC 6550 describes only how a single instance
> behaves
>
> 2016-05-24 12:17 GMT+03:00 peter van der Stok <stokcons@xs4all.nl>:
>
> I also did not see a mapping of flow from one RPL instance to
> another instance.
>
> I do not understand this. Could you please clarify?
>
>
>  A node belonging to one RPL instance sends a message to a node
> belonging to another RPL instance.
> This seems possible in Figure 3, with 3 RPL instances?
>
> If possible, it means an additional use case.
>
> Peter
>
>
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Roll mailing list
> Roll@ietf.org
> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/roll
>
>

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<div dir=3D"ltr"><div>Ok, thank you Pascal.</div><div><br></div><div>Ines=
=C2=A0</div><div class=3D"gmail_extra"><br><div class=3D"gmail_quote">2016-=
06-03 17:23 GMT+03:00 Pascal Thubert (pthubert) <span dir=3D"ltr">&lt;<a hr=
ef=3D"mailto:pthubert@cisco.com" target=3D"_blank">pthubert@cisco.com</a>&g=
t;</span>:<br><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0 0 0 .8ex;=
border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">





<div lang=3D"EN-US" link=3D"blue" vlink=3D"purple">
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,sans-serif;color:#1f497d">Hello Ines:<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,sans-serif;color:#1f497d"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,sans-serif;color:#1f497d">Interworking between instances would =
be like redistributing a protocol within another. This yields loops and req=
uires prioritization like admin distance in Cisoc
 routers. So far, we do not support that. Related: the draft on asym links =
added a capability for an upward instance (optimizing link metrics towards =
the root) to be coupled with a downwards instance, in case we have links wi=
th widely unbalanced metrics in
 both directions.<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,sans-serif;color:#1f497d"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"FR" style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-fam=
ily:&quot;Calibri&quot;,sans-serif;color:#1f497d">Cheers,<u></u><u></u></sp=
an></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"FR" style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-fam=
ily:&quot;Calibri&quot;,sans-serif;color:#1f497d"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></spa=
n></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"FR" style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-fam=
ily:&quot;Calibri&quot;,sans-serif;color:#1f497d">Pascal<u></u><u></u></spa=
n></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,sans-serif;color:#1f497d"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></span></p>
<div style=3D"border:none;border-left:solid blue 1.5pt;padding:0cm 0cm 0cm =
4.0pt">
<div>
<div style=3D"border:none;border-top:solid #e1e1e1 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0cm =
0cm 0cm">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><b><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot=
;Calibri&quot;,sans-serif">From:</span></b><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;=
font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,sans-serif"> Roll [mailto:<a href=3D"mailto=
:roll-bounces@ietf.org" target=3D"_blank">roll-bounces@ietf.org</a>]
<b>On Behalf Of </b>Ines Robles<br>
<b>Sent:</b> mardi 24 mai 2016 12:43<br>
<b>To:</b> <a href=3D"mailto:consultancy@vanderstok.org" target=3D"_blank">=
consultancy@vanderstok.org</a><br>
<b>Cc:</b> Routing Over Low power and Lossy networks &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:=
roll@ietf.org" target=3D"_blank">roll@ietf.org</a>&gt;<br>
<b>Subject:</b> Re: [Roll] RPLinfo review<u></u><u></u></span></p>
</div>
</div><div><div class=3D"h5">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></p>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">btw, I just found a proposed approach for interactio=
n between RPL Instances<u></u><u></u></p>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ar=
ial&quot;,sans-serif">Barcelo, Marc, Alejandro Correa, Jose Lopez Vicario, =
and Antoni Morell. &quot;Cooperative interaction among multiple RPL instanc=
es in wireless sensor networks.&quot;=C2=A0<i>Computer Communications</i>=
=C2=A0(2015).</span><u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ar=
ial&quot;,sans-serif">Cheers,</span><u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ar=
ial&quot;,sans-serif">Ines.</span><u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></p>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">2016-05-24 13:26 GMT+03:00 Ines Robles &lt;<a href=
=3D"mailto:mariainesrobles@googlemail.com" target=3D"_blank">mariainesroble=
s@googlemail.com</a>&gt;:<u></u><u></u></p>
<blockquote style=3D"border:none;border-left:solid #cccccc 1.0pt;padding:0c=
m 0cm 0cm 6.0pt;margin-left:4.8pt;margin-right:0cm">
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">Ah, got it, thank you very much.<span><span style=3D=
"color:#888888"><u></u><u></u></span></span></p>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"color:#888888">Ines<u></u><u></u></sp=
an></p>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></p>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">2016-05-24 13:22 GMT+03:00 peter van der Stok &lt;<a=
 href=3D"mailto:stokcons@xs4all.nl" target=3D"_blank">stokcons@xs4all.nl</a=
>&gt;:<u></u><u></u></p>
<blockquote style=3D"border:none;border-left:solid #cccccc 1.0pt;padding:0c=
m 0cm 0cm 6.0pt;margin-left:4.8pt;margin-right:0cm">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">Hi,<br>
<br>
that means writing &quot;one RPL instance&quot; in figure 3 in stead of &qu=
ot;RPL instance&quot; to remove that ambiguity.<br>
Writing in the use case section a phrase as the one below will be more than=
 sufficient for me.<br>
<br>
peter<br>
<br>
Ines=C2=A0 Robles schreef op 2016-05-24 12:16:<u></u><u></u></p>
<div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></p>
<blockquote style=3D"border:none;border-left:solid #cccccc 1.0pt;padding:0c=
m 0cm 0cm 6.0pt;margin-left:4.8pt;margin-right:0cm">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-bottom:12.0pt">Hi,<br>
<br>
Thanks for the clarification.<br>
<br>
We are just considering here one RPLInstance.<br>
<br>
Working with different RPLInstances, involves deeply analysis, which<br>
we could do in the future. But, actually I dont know if it is<br>
possible/useful to send a message from one RPL Instance to another one<br>
, since for example a RPL node may belong to multiple RPL Instances,<br>
and it may act as a router in some and as a leaf in others[1], for<br>
this reason it does not make sense to me sending packet from one<br>
RPLInstance to other RPLInstance. Besides the control messages has one<br>
field for RPLInstanceID, it does not have RPLInstanceID origen or<br>
RPLInstanceID dst.<br>
<br>
What do you think?<br>
<br>
Thank you,<br>
<br>
Ines<br>
<br>
[1] RFC6550. Section 5. RFC 6550 describes only how a single instance<br>
behaves<br>
<br>
2016-05-24 12:17 GMT+03:00 peter van der Stok &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:stokcon=
s@xs4all.nl" target=3D"_blank">stokcons@xs4all.nl</a>&gt;:<u></u><u></u></p=
>
<blockquote style=3D"border:none;border-left:solid #cccccc 1.0pt;padding:0c=
m 0cm 0cm 6.0pt;margin-left:4.8pt;margin-right:0cm">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">I also did not see a mapping of flow from one RPL in=
stance to<br>
another instance.<br>
<br>
I do not understand this. Could you please clarify?<u></u><u></u></p>
</blockquote>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><br>
=C2=A0A node belonging to one RPL instance sends a message to a node<br>
belonging to another RPL instance.<br>
This seems possible in Figure 3, with 3 RPL instances?<br>
<br>
If possible, it means an additional use case.<br>
<br>
Peter<u></u><u></u></p>
</blockquote>
</div>
</div>
</blockquote>
</div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></p>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</blockquote>
</div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></p>
</div>
</div></div></div>
</div>
</div>

<br>_______________________________________________<br>
Roll mailing list<br>
<a href=3D"mailto:Roll@ietf.org">Roll@ietf.org</a><br>
<a href=3D"https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/roll" rel=3D"noreferrer" t=
arget=3D"_blank">https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/roll</a><br>
<br></blockquote></div><br></div></div>

--94eb2c095036d5b0e20534f684a2--


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A New Internet-Draft is available from the on-line Internet-Drafts directories.
This draft is a work item of the Routing Over Low power and Lossy networks of the IETF.

        Title           : When to use RFC 6553, 6554 and IPv6-in-IPv6
        Authors         : Maria Ines Robles
                          Michael C. Richardson
                          Pascal Thubert
	Filename        : draft-ietf-roll-useofrplinfo-05.txt
	Pages           : 31
	Date            : 2016-06-10

Abstract:
   This document looks at different data flows through LLN (Low-Power
   and Lossy Networks) where RPL (IPv6 Routing Protocol for Low-Power
   and Lossy Networks) is used to establish routing.  The document
   enumerates the cases where RFC 6553, RFC 6554 and IPv6-in-IPv6
   encapsulation is required.  This analysis provides the basis on which
   to design efficient compression of these headers.


The IETF datatracker status page for this draft is:
https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-roll-useofrplinfo/

There's also a htmlized version available at:
https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-roll-useofrplinfo-05

A diff from the previous version is available at:
https://www.ietf.org/rfcdiff?url2=draft-ietf-roll-useofrplinfo-05


Please note that it may take a couple of minutes from the time of submission
until the htmlized version and diff are available at tools.ietf.org.

Internet-Drafts are also available by anonymous FTP at:
ftp://ftp.ietf.org/internet-drafts/


From nobody Mon Jun 13 07:15:10 2016
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From: "Rahul Arvind Jadhav (Rahul Arvind Jadhav, 2012 Labs)" <rahul.jadhav@huawei.com>
To: Routing Over Low power and Lossy networks <roll@ietf.org>
Thread-Topic: [Roll] AODV-RPL (draft-satish-roll-aodv-rpl-00.txt)
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Dear Authors,

Thanks for the draft. IMO, P2P traffic in RPL is an important work and a we=
ak-point of RPL.

One comment regarding link asymmetry and how the draft takes care of it..=20
The draft talks about sending route control messages (RREQ-instance message=
) from OrigNode to TargNode to enable data transmission from TargNode to Or=
igNode (section 4) i.e. send message downstream to identify upstream path, =
like the way RPL DIO msg flows downstream to identify upstream path.
Isn't this orthogonal to the requirements of asymmetric link detection? Can=
 a node make a reachability assumption towards an upstream peer on receivin=
g msg from that upstream peer?
In case of P2P-RPL (RFC 6997), there is a clear assumption about bidirectio=
nal reachability. To quote, "Since the links in the discovered route have b=
idirectional reachability (Section 7), the Target may use the discovered ro=
ute to reach the Origin."
How does the draft address this problem and handle asymmetric bidirectional=
 routes?
=09
Thanks,
Rahul

-----Original Message-----
From: Roll [mailto:roll-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of Charlie Perkins
Sent: 09 June 2016 AM 10:21
To: Routing Over Low power and Lossy networks
Cc: Dongxin Liu
Subject: [Roll] AODV-RPL (draft-satish-roll-aodv-rpl-00.txt)


Hello folks,

We have submitted AODV-RPL for consideration in the [roll] WG. AODV-RPL bor=
rows some ideas from AODV and also handles asymmetric bidirectional routes.=
  Comments and suggestions will be appreciated!

Regards,
Charlie P.

_______________________________________________
Roll mailing list
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From nobody Fri Jun 17 05:56:36 2016
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Date: Fri, 17 Jun 2016 14:56:12 +0200
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To: ROLL WG <roll@ietf.org>
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Subject: [Roll] RIOT Summit July 15-16 in Berlin (right before IETF96)
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--94eb2c04cbfa3e49ad053578e23d
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8

Hi everyone,

some of you might be interested in attending the RIOT Summit in Berlin on
the weekend before IETF 96: http://summit.riot-os.org

As a reminder: RIOT supports several network stacks using RPL in various
MOP, so participation of RPL implementers and users is relevant.

This workshop will bring together people with various backgrounds (SMEs,
bigger companies and academia), RIOTers, beginners & experts, and people
interested in the IoT in general. There will be plenary talks, hands-on
tutorials & demos, and a preliminary list of speakers + agenda has just
been pushed to the website.

Check it out! Registration is free, but mandatory.

Best,

Emmanuel

--94eb2c04cbfa3e49ad053578e23d
Content-Type: text/html; charset=UTF-8
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

<div dir=3D"ltr"><span style=3D"font-size:13px">Hi everyone,</span><div sty=
le=3D"font-size:13px"><br></div><div style=3D"font-size:13px">some of you m=
ight be interested in attending the=C2=A0<span class=3D"">RIOT</span>=C2=A0=
<span class=3D"">Summit</span>=C2=A0in=C2=A0<span class=3D"">Berlin</span>=
=C2=A0on the weekend=C2=A0<span class=3D"">before</span>=C2=A0IETF 96:=C2=
=A0<a href=3D"http://summit.riot-os.org/" target=3D"_blank">http://<span cl=
ass=3D"">summit</span>.<span class=3D"">riot</span>-os.org</a><br></div><di=
v style=3D"font-size:13px"><br></div><div style=3D"font-size:13px">As a rem=
inder: RIOT supports several network stacks using RPL in various MOP, so pa=
rticipation of RPL implementers and users is relevant.<br></div><div style=
=3D"font-size:13px"><br></div><div style=3D"font-size:13px">This workshop w=
ill bring together people with various backgrounds (SMEs, bigger companies =
and academia), RIOTers, beginners &amp; experts, and people interested in t=
he IoT in general. There will be plenary talks, hands-on tutorials &amp; de=
mos, and a preliminary list of speakers + agenda has just been pushed to th=
e website.=C2=A0</div><div style=3D"font-size:13px"><br></div><div style=3D=
"font-size:13px">Check it out! Registration is free, but mandatory.</div><d=
iv style=3D"font-size:13px"><br></div><div style=3D"font-size:13px">Best,</=
div><div style=3D"font-size:13px"><br></div><div style=3D"font-size:13px">E=
mmanuel</div></div>

--94eb2c04cbfa3e49ad053578e23d--


From nobody Fri Jun 17 14:07:25 2016
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Message-ID: <5764666E.5080504@tzi.org>
Date: Fri, 17 Jun 2016 23:06:54 +0200
From: Carsten Bormann <cabo@tzi.org>
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Subject: [Roll] Constrained Node/Network Cluster @ IETF96: DRAFT AGENDA
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Here is my usual eclectic condensed agenda based on the DRAFT AGENDA
for IETF96.  Remember that there is still quite some potential for
changes.

Apart from COSE on PLUS (ouch), and the maybe more personal conflicts
of ACE on QUIC and 6LO on ARTAREA, I'm not seeing a lot of hurt this
time.  Moves due to other conflict avoidance may make this worse,
though.

All times are CEST (UTC-0200).  (The browser timezone function is not
yet reinstated on https://datatracker.ietf.org/meeting/agenda-utc, for
those who want to listen from remote.)

Grüße, Carsten


MONDAY, July 18, 2016

1000-1230  Morning Session I
Potsdam II	ART	artarea	Applications and Real-Time Area Open Meeting  -
Combined with DISPATCH
Potsdam III	INT ***	6lo	IPv6 over Networks of Resource-constrained Nodes WG

1400-1530  Afternoon Session I
Potsdam II	ART	httpbis	Hypertext Transfer Protocol WG
Bellevue	INT ***	6tisch	IPv6 over the TSCH mode of IEEE 802.15.4e WG
Potsdam I	INT	homenet	Home Networking WG
Tiergarten	SEC	oauth	Web Authorization Protocol WG
Ch_burg I	SEC	openpgp	Open Specification for Pretty Good Privacy WG
Potsdam III	TSV	tsvarea	Transport Area Open Meeting

1540-1740  Afternoon Session II
Ch_burg II/III	INT ***	lpwan	Low-Power Wide Area Networks  BOF
Potsdam II	SEC	acme	Automated Certificate Management Environment WG

1800-2000  Afternoon Session III
Potsdam I	IRTF	maprg	Proposed Measurement and Analysis for Protocols
Research Group
Potsdam II	OPS	anima	Autonomic Networking Integrated Model and Approach WG
Schoeneberg	RTG	bier	Bit Indexed Explicit Replication WG
Bellevue	RTG	detnet	Deterministic Networking WG
Potsdam III	SEC	lurk	Limited Use of Remote Keys BOF

TUESDAY, July 19, 2016

1000-1230  Morning Session I
Potsdam I	INT	6man	IPv6 Maintenance WG
Potsdam III	SEC	tls	Transport Layer Security WG
Bellevue	TSV	rmcat	RTP Media Congestion Avoidance Techniques WG

1400-1600  Afternoon Session I
Ch_burg II/III	ART ***	core	Constrained RESTful Environments WG
Bellevue	SEC	tokbind	Token Binding WG
Potsdam I	TSV	l4s	Low Latency Low Loss Scalable throughput BOF

1620-1820  Afternoon Session II
Potsdam II	ART	uta	Using TLS in Applications WG
Schoeneberg	ART	webpush	Web-Based Push Notifications WG
Potsdam III	IRTF***	t2trg	Thing-to-Thing
Potsdam I	RTG	rtgarea	Routing Area Open Meeting
Ch_burg II/III	TSV	tcpinc	TCP Increased Security WG

WEDNESDAY, July 20, 2016

1000-1230  Morning Session I
Bellevue	SEC ***	ace	Authentication and Authorization for Constrained
Environments WG
Ch_burg I	SEC	curdle	CURves, Deprecating and a Little more Encryption WG
Potsdam I	TSV	quic	QUIC BOF

1400-1530  Afternoon Session I
Ch_burg II/III	INT	dnssd	Extensions for Scalable DNS Service Discovery  WG
Potsdam III	IRTF	cfrg	Crypto Forum

1550-1720  Afternoon Session II
Schoeneberg	RTG ***	roll	Routing Over Low power and Lossy networks WG
Lincke  	SEC	oauth	Web Authorization Protocol WG
Ch_burg II/III	TSV	tsvwg	Transport Area Working Group WG

THURSDAY, July 21, 2016

1000-1230  Morning Session I
Schoeneberg	ART	ice	Interactive Connectivity Establishment WG
Ch_burg I	SEC ***	cose	CBOR Object Signing and Encryption WG - 11:30-12:30
Potsdam I	TSV	plus	Path Layer UDP Substrate BOF

1400-1600  Afternoon Session I
Bellevue	INT	its	Intelligent Transportation Systems BOF
Potsdam I	OPS	v6ops	IPv6 Operations WG
Potsdam III	SEC	saag	Security Area Open Meeting

1620-1820  Afternoon Session II
Tiergarten	ART ***	core	Constrained RESTful Environments WG
Potsdam III	OPS	anima	Autonomic Networking Integrated Model and Approach WG
Potsdam II	RTG	babel	Babel routing protocol WG

1830-1930  Afternoon Session III
Potsdam III	INT	intarea	Internet Area Working Group WG
Bellevue	TSV	taps	Transport Services WG

FRIDAY, July 22, 2016

1000-1200  Morning Session I
Bellevue	ART	httpbis	Hypertext Transfer Protocol WG
Ch_burg II/III	TSV	tsvwg	Transport Area Working Group WG

1220-1320  Afternoon Session I
Schoeneberg	INT ***	lwig	Light-Weight Implementation Guidance WG
Ch_burg I	SEC	spasm	Some PKIX and SMIME WG


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From: Kerry Lynn <kerlyn@ieee.org>
Date: Mon, 20 Jun 2016 12:48:41 -0400
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To: Routing Over Low power and Lossy networks <roll@ietf.org>
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Subject: Re: [Roll] RIOT Summit July 15-16 in Berlin (right before IETF96)
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Hi Emmanuel,

I booked my travel before I knew the RIOT Summit dates.  If you can
recommend a hotel near the University, I'll try to change my flight to
arrive on Friday.

Thanks, Kerry


On Fri, Jun 17, 2016 at 8:56 AM, Emmanuel Baccelli <
Emmanuel.Baccelli@inria.fr> wrote:

> Hi everyone,
>
> some of you might be interested in attending the RIOT Summit in Berlin on
> the weekend before IETF 96: http://summit.riot-os.org
>
> As a reminder: RIOT supports several network stacks using RPL in various
> MOP, so participation of RPL implementers and users is relevant.
>
> This workshop will bring together people with various backgrounds (SMEs,
> bigger companies and academia), RIOTers, beginners & experts, and people
> interested in the IoT in general. There will be plenary talks, hands-on
> tutorials & demos, and a preliminary list of speakers + agenda has just
> been pushed to the website.
>
> Check it out! Registration is free, but mandatory.
>
> Best,
>
> Emmanuel
>
> _______________________________________________
> Roll mailing list
> Roll@ietf.org
> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/roll
>
>

--001a1149bd86110fed0535b87ad2
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<div dir=3D"ltr">Hi Emmanuel,<div><br></div><div>I booked my travel before =
I knew the RIOT Summit dates.=C2=A0 If you can</div><div>recommend a hotel =
near the University, I&#39;ll try to change my flight to</div><div>arrive o=
n Friday.</div><div><br></div><div>Thanks, Kerry</div><div><br></div></div>=
<div class=3D"gmail_extra"><br><div class=3D"gmail_quote">On Fri, Jun 17, 2=
016 at 8:56 AM, Emmanuel Baccelli <span dir=3D"ltr">&lt;<a href=3D"mailto:E=
mmanuel.Baccelli@inria.fr" target=3D"_blank">Emmanuel.Baccelli@inria.fr</a>=
&gt;</span> wrote:<br><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0 0=
 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex"><div dir=3D"ltr"><span=
 class=3D""><span style=3D"font-size:13px">Hi everyone,</span><div style=3D=
"font-size:13px"><br></div><div style=3D"font-size:13px">some of you might =
be interested in attending the=C2=A0<span>RIOT</span>=C2=A0<span>Summit</sp=
an>=C2=A0in=C2=A0<span>Berlin</span>=C2=A0on the weekend=C2=A0<span>before<=
/span>=C2=A0IETF 96:=C2=A0<a href=3D"http://summit.riot-os.org/" target=3D"=
_blank">http://<span>summit</span>.<span>riot</span>-os.org</a><br></div><d=
iv style=3D"font-size:13px"><br></div></span><div style=3D"font-size:13px">=
As a reminder: RIOT supports several network stacks using RPL in various MO=
P, so participation of RPL implementers and users is relevant.<br></div><sp=
an class=3D""><div style=3D"font-size:13px"><br></div><div style=3D"font-si=
ze:13px">This workshop will bring together people with various backgrounds =
(SMEs, bigger companies and academia), RIOTers, beginners &amp; experts, an=
d people interested in the IoT in general. There will be plenary talks, han=
ds-on tutorials &amp; demos, and a preliminary list of speakers + agenda ha=
s just been pushed to the website.=C2=A0</div><div style=3D"font-size:13px"=
><br></div><div style=3D"font-size:13px">Check it out! Registration is free=
, but mandatory.</div><div style=3D"font-size:13px"><br></div><div style=3D=
"font-size:13px">Best,</div><div style=3D"font-size:13px"><br></div><div st=
yle=3D"font-size:13px">Emmanuel</div></span></div>
<br>_______________________________________________<br>
Roll mailing list<br>
<a href=3D"mailto:Roll@ietf.org">Roll@ietf.org</a><br>
<a href=3D"https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/roll" rel=3D"noreferrer" t=
arget=3D"_blank">https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/roll</a><br>
<br></blockquote></div><br></div>

--001a1149bd86110fed0535b87ad2--


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From: Emmanuel Baccelli <emmanuel.baccelli@gmail.com>
To: ROLL WG <roll@ietf.org>
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Subject: Re: [Roll] RIOT Summit July 15-16 in Berlin (right before IETF96)
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--94eb2c04cbfac8e7200535b9eb3a
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Hi Kerry,
I recommend this hotel on the campus:
  http://www.seminaris.de/hotels/seminaris-campushotel-berlin.html
It would be great if you could attend!
Best
Emmanuel
On Jun 20, 2016 18:48, "Kerry Lynn" <kerlyn@ieee.org> wrote:

> Hi Emmanuel,
>
> I booked my travel before I knew the RIOT Summit dates.  If you can
> recommend a hotel near the University, I'll try to change my flight to
> arrive on Friday.
>
> Thanks, Kerry
>
>
> On Fri, Jun 17, 2016 at 8:56 AM, Emmanuel Baccelli <
> Emmanuel.Baccelli@inria.fr> wrote:
>
>> Hi everyone,
>>
>> some of you might be interested in attending the RIOT Summit in Berlin on
>> the weekend before IETF 96: http://summit.riot-os.org
>>
>> As a reminder: RIOT supports several network stacks using RPL in various
>> MOP, so participation of RPL implementers and users is relevant.
>>
>> This workshop will bring together people with various backgrounds (SMEs,
>> bigger companies and academia), RIOTers, beginners & experts, and people
>> interested in the IoT in general. There will be plenary talks, hands-on
>> tutorials & demos, and a preliminary list of speakers + agenda has just
>> been pushed to the website.
>>
>> Check it out! Registration is free, but mandatory.
>>
>> Best,
>>
>> Emmanuel
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> Roll mailing list
>> Roll@ietf.org
>> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/roll
>>
>>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Roll mailing list
> Roll@ietf.org
> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/roll
>
>

--94eb2c04cbfac8e7200535b9eb3a
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<p dir=3D"ltr">Hi Kerry,<br>
I recommend this hotel on the campus:=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=
=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 <br>
=C2=A0 <font color=3D"#000000"><a href=3D"http://www.seminaris.de/hotels/se=
minaris-campushotel-berlin.html">http://www.seminaris.de/hotels/seminaris-c=
ampushotel-berlin.html</a></font><br>
<font color=3D"#000000">It would be great if you </font><font color=3D"#000=
000">could</font><font color=3D"#000000"> attend!</font><br>
<font color=3D"#000000">Best</font><br>
<font color=3D"#000000">Emmanuel</font></p>
<div class=3D"gmail_quote">On Jun 20, 2016 18:48, &quot;Kerry Lynn&quot; &l=
t;<a href=3D"mailto:kerlyn@ieee.org">kerlyn@ieee.org</a>&gt; wrote:<br type=
=3D"attribution"><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0 0 0 .8=
ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex"><div dir=3D"ltr">Hi Emmanue=
l,<div><br></div><div>I booked my travel before I knew the RIOT Summit date=
s.=C2=A0 If you can</div><div>recommend a hotel near the University, I&#39;=
ll try to change my flight to</div><div>arrive on Friday.</div><div><br></d=
iv><div>Thanks, Kerry</div><div><br></div></div><div class=3D"gmail_extra">=
<br><div class=3D"gmail_quote">On Fri, Jun 17, 2016 at 8:56 AM, Emmanuel Ba=
ccelli <span dir=3D"ltr">&lt;<a href=3D"mailto:Emmanuel.Baccelli@inria.fr" =
target=3D"_blank">Emmanuel.Baccelli@inria.fr</a>&gt;</span> wrote:<br><bloc=
kquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #cc=
c solid;padding-left:1ex"><div dir=3D"ltr"><span><span style=3D"font-size:1=
3px">Hi everyone,</span><div style=3D"font-size:13px"><br></div><div style=
=3D"font-size:13px">some of you might be interested in attending the=C2=A0<=
span>RIOT</span>=C2=A0<span>Summit</span>=C2=A0in=C2=A0<span>Berlin</span>=
=C2=A0on the weekend=C2=A0<span>before</span>=C2=A0IETF 96:=C2=A0<a href=3D=
"http://summit.riot-os.org/" target=3D"_blank">http://<span>summit</span>.<=
span>riot</span>-os.org</a><br></div><div style=3D"font-size:13px"><br></di=
v></span><div style=3D"font-size:13px">As a reminder: RIOT supports several=
 network stacks using RPL in various MOP, so participation of RPL implement=
ers and users is relevant.<br></div><span><div style=3D"font-size:13px"><br=
></div><div style=3D"font-size:13px">This workshop will bring together peop=
le with various backgrounds (SMEs, bigger companies and academia), RIOTers,=
 beginners &amp; experts, and people interested in the IoT in general. Ther=
e will be plenary talks, hands-on tutorials &amp; demos, and a preliminary =
list of speakers + agenda has just been pushed to the website.=C2=A0</div><=
div style=3D"font-size:13px"><br></div><div style=3D"font-size:13px">Check =
it out! Registration is free, but mandatory.</div><div style=3D"font-size:1=
3px"><br></div><div style=3D"font-size:13px">Best,</div><div style=3D"font-=
size:13px"><br></div><div style=3D"font-size:13px">Emmanuel</div></span></d=
iv>
<br>_______________________________________________<br>
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From: "Rahul Arvind Jadhav (Rahul Arvind Jadhav, 2012 Labs)" <rahul.jadhav@huawei.com>
To: Roll <roll@ietf.org>
Thread-Topic: DIS modifications draft
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Date: Tue, 21 Jun 2016 04:53:04 +0000
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Dear authors of draft-zhong-roll-dis-modifications-00<https://tools.ietf.or=
g/html/draft-zhong-roll-dis-modifications-00>,

Few comments:

1.       In section 3, "the "DIO Type" (T) flag: In case the N flag is set,=
 this T flag
      specifies what type of DIO is sent in response.  It MUST be a
      unicast DIO if this flag is set and it MUST be a multicast DIO if
      this flag is reset."

Is it necessary to put a MUST clause for unicast DIO? There might be reason=
s why multicast DIO might prove efficient. Consider for example that nodes =
are started in parallel and each of them sends a multicast DIS with 'T' bit=
 set. There are two scenarios:

A)      The number of nodes are less and sparsely located .... In this case=
 unicast DIO might work out more efficiently.

B)      The number of nodes are more and densely populated ... In this case=
 unicast DIO from already joined peers to every newly started node might pr=
ove inefficient.... Imo, it should be possible for the parent nodes to dete=
ct the number of mcast DIS rcvd (during the interval of response spreading =
time) and respond with mcast DIO if necessary i.e. if more number of mcast =
DIS(T=3D1) are rcvd then mcast  DIO may be sent in response. Also when a al=
ready joined node receives multiple mcast DIS with T=3D1 and with different=
 response spreading times then the handling becomes complex!

2.       If unicast DIO option is available, do you see any scenario/reason=
 why any node will generate a mcast DIS with T=3D0 ? I mean, is the node se=
nding the DIS in a position to decide whether it requires ucast/mcast DIO ?

Imo, I feel this draft is important as it reduces the control overhead duri=
ng network formation/node joinin and may also improve on the network conver=
gence time. Thanks for your work.

Regards,
Rahul


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<p class=3D"MsoNormal">Dear authors of <span style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;colo=
r:black"><a href=3D"https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-zhong-roll-dis-modifi=
cations-00">draft-zhong-roll-dis-modifications-00</a>,<o:p></o:p></span></p=
>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;color:black"><o:p>&n=
bsp;</o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;color:black">Few com=
ments:<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<pre style=3D"margin-left:36.0pt;text-indent:-18.0pt;mso-list:l3 level1 lfo=
2"><![if !supportLists]><span style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-family:&quot;C=
alibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:black"><span style=3D"mso-list:Ig=
nore">1.<span style=3D"font:7.0pt &quot;Times New Roman&quot;">&nbsp;&nbsp;=
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; </span></span></span><![endif]><span style=3D"font=
-size:10.5pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:b=
lack">In section 3, &#8220;</span><span style=3D"color:black">the &quot;DIO=
 Type&quot; (T) flag: In case the N flag is set, this T flag<o:p></o:p></sp=
an></pre>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Co=
urier New&quot;;color:black">&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; specifies what =
type of DIO is sent in response.&nbsp; It
<b><u>MUST</u></b> be a<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Co=
urier New&quot;;color:black">&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; unicast DIO if =
this flag is set and it MUST be a multicast DIO if<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Co=
urier New&quot;;color:black">&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; this flag is re=
set.&#8221;<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoListParagraph"><span style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;color:black">=
Is it necessary to put a MUST clause for unicast DIO? There might be reason=
s why multicast DIO might prove efficient. Consider for example that nodes =
are started in parallel and each of
 them sends a multicast DIS with &#8216;T&#8217; bit set. There are two sce=
narios:<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoListParagraph" style=3D"margin-left:54.0pt;text-indent:-18.0=
pt;mso-list:l2 level1 lfo4">
<![if !supportLists]><span style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;color:black"><span sty=
le=3D"mso-list:Ignore">A)<span style=3D"font:7.0pt &quot;Times New Roman&qu=
ot;">&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;
</span></span></span><![endif]><span style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;color:black"=
>The number of nodes are less and sparsely located &#8230;. In this case un=
icast DIO might work out more efficiently.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoListParagraph" style=3D"margin-left:54.0pt;text-indent:-18.0=
pt;mso-list:l2 level1 lfo4">
<![if !supportLists]><span style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;color:black"><span sty=
le=3D"mso-list:Ignore">B)<span style=3D"font:7.0pt &quot;Times New Roman&qu=
ot;">&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;
</span></span></span><![endif]><span style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;color:black"=
>The number of nodes are more and densely populated &#8230; In this case un=
icast DIO from already joined peers to every newly started node might prove=
 inefficient.... Imo, it should be possible
 for the parent nodes to detect the number of mcast DIS rcvd (during the in=
terval of response spreading time) and respond with mcast DIO if necessary =
i.e. if more number of mcast DIS(T=3D1) are rcvd then mcast &nbsp;DIO may b=
e sent in response. Also when a already
 joined node receives multiple mcast DIS with T=3D1 and with different resp=
onse spreading times then the handling becomes complex!<o:p></o:p></span></=
p>
<p class=3D"MsoListParagraph" style=3D"text-indent:-18.0pt;mso-list:l3 leve=
l1 lfo2"><![if !supportLists]><span style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;color:black">=
<span style=3D"mso-list:Ignore">2.<span style=3D"font:7.0pt &quot;Times New=
 Roman&quot;">&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;
</span></span></span><![endif]><span style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;color:black"=
>If unicast DIO option is available, do you see any scenario/reason why any=
 node will generate a mcast DIS with T=3D0 ? I mean, is the node sending th=
e DIS in a position to decide whether
 it requires ucast/mcast DIO ? <o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;color:black">Imo, I =
feel this draft is important as it reduces the control overhead during netw=
ork formation/node joinin and may also improve on the network convergence t=
ime. Thanks for your work.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;color:black"><o:p>&n=
bsp;</o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;color:black">Regards=
,<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;color:black">Rahul<o=
:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ta=
homa&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:black">&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ta=
homa&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:black">****************************=
***********************************************************<br>
This e-mail and attachments contain confidential information from HUAWEI, w=
hich is intended only for the person or entity whose address is listed abov=
e. Any use of the information contained herein in any way (including, but n=
ot limited to, total or partial
 disclosure, reproduction, or dissemination) by persons other than the inte=
nded recipient's) is prohibited. If you receive this e-mail in error, pleas=
e notify the sender by phone or email immediately and delete it!<o:p></o:p>=
</span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
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From: Ines  Robles <mariainesrobles@googlemail.com>
Date: Tue, 21 Jun 2016 19:27:16 +0300
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Subject: [Roll] Request for Comments for ROLL Charter
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Dear all,

Please find a draft of the working group charter.

Please review and comments. It would be good to have your comments before
IETF 96.

Thank you very much in advance,

Peter and Ines

///////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////=
///////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////=
//

Charter for Working Group

Low power and Lossy Networks (LLNs) are made up of many embedded devices
with limited power, memory, and processing resources. They are
interconnected by a variety of links, such as IEEE 802.15.4, Bluetooth, Low
Power WiFi, wired or other low power PLC (Powerline Communication) links.
LLNs are transitioning to an end-to-end IP-based solution to avoid the
problem of non-interoperable networks interconnected by protocol
translation gateways and proxies.

Generally speaking, LLNs are characterized as follows, but not limited to:

-LLNs operate with a hard, very small bound on state.

-In most cases, LLN optimize for saving energy by using small packet
headers and few reduce amount of control packets.

-Typical traffic patterns are not simply unicast flows (e.g. in some cases
most if not all traffic can be point to multipoint).

- In most cases, LLNs will be employed over link layers with restricted
frame-sizes and low bit rates, thus a routing protocol for LLNs should be
specifically adapted for such link layers.

- LLN routing protocols have to be very careful when trading off efficiency
for generality; since LLN nodes do not have resources to waste.


These specific properties cause LLNs to have specific routing requirements.

Existing routing protocols such as OSPF, IS-IS, AODV, and OLSR have been
evaluated by the working group (draft-levis-roll-overview-protocols-00) and
have in their current form been found to not satisfy all of these specific
routing requirements =E2=80=9CRouting Requirements for Urban Low-Power and =
Lossy
Networks=E2=80=9D RFC 5548, =E2=80=9CIndustrial Routing Requirements in Low=
-Power and Lossy
Networks=E2=80=9D RFC 5673, =E2=80=9CHome Automation Routing Requirements i=
n Low-Power and
Lossy Networks=E2=80=9D RFC 5826, Building Automation Routing Requirements =
in
Low-Power and Lossy Networks RFC 5867.

The Working Group is focused on routing issues for LLN and maintaining the
protocols developed by the working group.

There is a wide scope of application areas for LLNs, including industrial
monitoring, building automation (HVAC, lighting, access control, fire),
connected homes, health care, environmental monitoring, urban sensor
networks (e.g. Smart Grid), asset tracking. The Working Group focuses on
routing solutions for a subset of these: connected home, building and urban
sensor networks for which routing requirements have been specified. These
application-specific routing requirement documents were used for protocol
design.
The Working Group focuses on IPv6 routing architectural framework for these
application scenarios. The Framework will take into consideration various
aspects including high reliability in the presence of time varying loss
characteristics and connectivity while permitting low-power operation with
very modest memory and CPU pressure in networks potentially comprising a
very large number (several thousands) of nodes.

The Working Group will document how data packets are routed and
encapsulated when they cross the LLN, and when they enter and exit the LLN:
the appropriate use of RH3 (RFC6553), RPI (RFC6554) and IPv6-in-IPv6
encapsulation including how routing loops are detected. In consultation
with the 6lo WG, the Working Group will design a method to compress these
routing headers into a single block. The WGLC on this work will be shared
with 6lo. The Working group will align with the 6man WG when needed.
ROLL is responsible for maintenance of the protocols that is has developed,
including RPL and MPL. AD approval is required for each new work item that
is proposed.

Work Items are:

- Guidance in using RFC6553, RFC6554, and IPv6-in-IPv6 encapsulation.

- Compression of  RFC6553, RFC6554, and IP headers in the 6LoWPAN
adaptation layer context

- Additional protocol to  reduce paths for RPL in non-storing mode

- Automatic selection of MPL forwarders to reduce message replication

- Data models for RPL and MPL management

- Alternative Multicast algorithm based on Bier forwarding.

- Solution  of  the  problems associated with the use of No- Path DAO
messaging in RPL.

- Methods to improve the current RPL behaviour, e.g. DIS modifications in
RPL.


Milestones                                        DATE

Recharter WG or close                   September 2017

Initial submission of draft about YANG RPL model to IESG   March 2017

Initial submission of draft about MPL selection to IESG    January 2017

Initial submission of draft about Bier Multicast to IESG      November 2016

Submit draft about YANG MPL model to IESG     October 2016

Initial Submission of the draft about when to use RFC6553, RFC6554, and
IPv6-in-IPv6 encapsulation     August 2016
Draft-ietf-roll-useofrplinfo to the IESG.

Initial submission of the draft about how to compress RFC6553, RFC6554, and
IP headers in the 6LoWPAN adaptation layer context.  to the IESG.    May
2016
draft-ietf-roll-routing-dispatch

Initial Submission of the No-Path DAO Problem Statement to the IESG
November 2016



///////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////=
///////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////=
///////////////////////////////

--001a113d0ad452e58a0535cc4b50
Content-Type: text/html; charset=UTF-8
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

<div dir=3D"ltr"><span style=3D"font-size:12.8px">Dear all,=C2=A0</span><di=
v style=3D"font-size:12.8px"><br></div><div style=3D"font-size:12.8px">Plea=
se find a draft of the working group charter.</div><div style=3D"font-size:=
12.8px"><br></div><div style=3D"font-size:12.8px">Please review and comment=
s. It would be good to have your comments before IETF 96.</div><div style=
=3D"font-size:12.8px"><br></div><div style=3D"font-size:12.8px">Thank you v=
ery much in advance,</div><div style=3D"font-size:12.8px"><br></div><div st=
yle=3D"font-size:12.8px">Peter and Ines</div><div style=3D"font-size:12.8px=
"><br></div><div style=3D"font-size:12.8px">///////////////////////////////=
///////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////=
//////////////////////////////////////////////</div><div style=3D"font-size=
:12.8px"><br></div><div style=3D"font-size:12.8px"><div>Charter for Working=
 Group</div><div><br></div><div>Low power and Lossy Networks (LLNs) are mad=
e up of many embedded devices with limited power, memory, and processing re=
sources. They are interconnected by a variety of links, such as IEEE 802.15=
.4, Bluetooth, Low Power WiFi, wired or other low power PLC (Powerline Comm=
unication) links. LLNs are transitioning to an end-to-end IP-based solution=
 to avoid the problem of non-interoperable networks interconnected by proto=
col translation gateways and proxies.</div><div><br></div><div>Generally sp=
eaking, LLNs are characterized as follows, but not limited to:</div><div><b=
r></div><div>-LLNs operate with a hard, very small bound on state.=C2=A0</d=
iv><div><br></div><div>-In most cases, LLN optimize for saving energy by us=
ing small packet headers and few reduce amount of control packets.</div><di=
v>=C2=A0</div><div>-Typical traffic patterns are not simply unicast flows (=
e.g. in some cases most if not all traffic can be point to multipoint).</di=
v><div><br></div><div>- In most cases, LLNs will be employed over link laye=
rs with restricted frame-sizes and low bit rates, thus a routing protocol f=
or LLNs should be specifically adapted for such link layers.=C2=A0</div><di=
v><br></div><div>- LLN routing protocols have to be very careful when tradi=
ng off efficiency for generality; since LLN nodes do not have resources to =
waste.<br></div><div><br></div><div><br></div><div>These specific propertie=
s cause LLNs to have specific routing requirements.</div><div><br></div><di=
v>Existing routing protocols such as OSPF, IS-IS, AODV, and OLSR have been =
evaluated by the working group (draft-levis-roll-overview-protocols-00) and=
 have in their current form been found to not satisfy all of these specific=
 routing requirements =E2=80=9CRouting Requirements for Urban Low-Power and=
 Lossy Networks=E2=80=9D RFC 5548, =E2=80=9CIndustrial Routing Requirements=
 in Low-Power and Lossy Networks=E2=80=9D RFC 5673, =E2=80=9CHome Automatio=
n Routing Requirements in Low-Power and Lossy Networks=E2=80=9D RFC 5826, B=
uilding Automation Routing Requirements in Low-Power and Lossy Networks RFC=
 5867.</div><div><br></div><div>The Working Group is focused on routing iss=
ues for LLN and maintaining the protocols developed by the working group.</=
div><div><br></div><div>There is a wide scope of application areas for LLNs=
, including industrial monitoring, building automation (HVAC, lighting, acc=
ess control, fire), connected homes, health care, environmental monitoring,=
 urban sensor networks (e.g. Smart Grid), asset tracking. The Working Group=
 focuses on routing solutions for a subset of these: connected home, buildi=
ng and urban sensor networks for which routing requirements have been speci=
fied. These application-specific routing requirement documents were used fo=
r protocol design.</div><div>The Working Group focuses on IPv6 routing arch=
itectural framework for these application scenarios. The Framework will tak=
e into consideration various aspects including high reliability in the pres=
ence of time varying loss characteristics and connectivity while permitting=
 low-power operation with very modest memory and CPU pressure in networks p=
otentially comprising a very large number (several thousands) of nodes.</di=
v><div><br></div><div>The Working Group will document how data packets are =
routed and encapsulated when they cross the LLN, and when they enter and ex=
it the LLN: the appropriate use of RH3 (RFC6553), RPI (RFC6554) and IPv6-in=
-IPv6 encapsulation including how routing loops are detected. In consultati=
on with the 6lo WG, the Working Group will design a method to compress thes=
e routing headers into a single block. The WGLC on this work will be shared=
 with 6lo. The Working group will align with the 6man WG when needed.</div>=
<div>ROLL is responsible for maintenance of the protocols that is has devel=
oped, including RPL and MPL. AD approval is required for each new work item=
 that is proposed.</div><div><br></div><div>Work Items are:</div><div><br><=
/div><div>- Guidance in using RFC6553, RFC6554, and IPv6-in-IPv6 encapsulat=
ion.</div><div><br></div><div>- Compression of =C2=A0RFC6553, RFC6554, and =
IP headers in the 6LoWPAN adaptation layer context</div><div><br></div><div=
>- Additional protocol to =C2=A0reduce paths for RPL in non-storing mode</d=
iv><div><br></div><div>- Automatic selection of MPL forwarders to reduce me=
ssage replication</div><div><br></div><div>- Data models for RPL and MPL ma=
nagement</div><div><br></div><div>- Alternative Multicast algorithm based o=
n Bier forwarding.</div><div><br></div><div>- Solution =C2=A0of =C2=A0the =
=C2=A0problems associated with the use of No- Path DAO messaging in RPL.</d=
iv><div><br></div><div>- Methods to improve the current RPL behaviour, e.g.=
 DIS modifications in RPL.</div><div><br></div><div><br></div><div>Mileston=
es =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0DATE</=
div><div><br></div><div>Recharter WG or close =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 September 2017</div><div><br></div><div>=
Initial submission of draft about YANG RPL model to IESG =C2=A0 March 2017<=
/div><div><br></div><div>Initial submission of draft about MPL selection to=
 IESG =C2=A0 =C2=A0January 2017</div><div><br></div><div>Initial submission=
 of draft about Bier Multicast to IESG =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0November 2016</d=
iv><div><br></div><div>Submit draft about YANG MPL model to IESG =C2=A0 =C2=
=A0 October 2016</div><div><br></div><div>Initial Submission of the draft a=
bout when to use RFC6553, RFC6554, and IPv6-in-IPv6 encapsulation =C2=A0 =
=C2=A0 August 2016</div><div>Draft-ietf-roll-useofrplinfo to the IESG.</div=
><div><br></div><div>Initial submission of the draft about how to compress =
RFC6553, RFC6554, and IP headers in the 6LoWPAN adaptation layer context. =
=C2=A0to the IESG. =C2=A0 =C2=A0May 2016</div><div>draft-ietf-roll-routing-=
dispatch =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0=C2=A0</div><div><br></div><div>Initial Submis=
sion of the No-Path DAO Problem Statement to the IESG =C2=A0 =C2=A0 Novembe=
r 2016</div></div><div style=3D"font-size:12.8px"><br></div><div style=3D"f=
ont-size:12.8px"><br></div><div style=3D"font-size:12.8px"><br></div><div s=
tyle=3D"font-size:12.8px">/////////////////////////////////////////////////=
///////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////=
/////////////////////////////////////////////////////////</div></div>

--001a113d0ad452e58a0535cc4b50--


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Subject: Re: [Roll] Request for Comments for ROLL Charter
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Hello Ines,Peter,

the proposed charter looks great as it is,
however, I have a few remarks and questions that Iinlined below.

Thanks!

Best,
Cenk

On 06/21/2016 06:27 PM, Ines Robles wrote:
> Dear all,
>
> Please find a draft of the working group charter.
>
> Please review and comments. It would be good to have your comments 
> before IETF 96.
>
> Thank you very much in advance,
>
> Peter and Ines
>
> ////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////
>
> Charter for Working Group
>
> Low power and Lossy Networks (LLNs) are made up of many embedded 
> devices with limited

 > Should we reference RFC7228: "Terminology for Constrained-Node 
Networks" here to have
a consistent and common definition of the term LLN?

> power, memory, and processing resources. They are interconnected by a 
> variety of links, such as IEEE 802.15.4, Bluetooth, Low Power WiFi, 
> wired or other low power PLC (Powerline Communication) links. LLNs are 
> transitioning to an end-to-end IP-based solution to avoid the problem 
> of non-interoperable networks interconnected by protocol translation 
> gateways and proxies.
>
> Generally speaking, LLNs are characterized as follows, but not limited to:
>
> -LLNs operate with a hard, very small bound on state.
>
> -In most cases, LLN optimize for saving energy by using small packet 
> headers and few reduce amount of control packets.
> -Typical traffic patterns are not simply unicast flows (e.g. in some 
> cases most if not all traffic can be point to multipoint).
>
> - In most cases, LLNs will be employed over link layers with 
> restricted frame-sizes and low bit rates, thus a routing protocol for 
> LLNs should be specifically adapted for such link layers.
>
> - LLN routing protocols have to be very careful when trading off 
> efficiency for generality; since LLN nodes do not have resources to waste.
>
>
> These specific properties cause LLNs to have specific routing 
> requirements.
>
> Existing routing protocols such as OSPF, IS-IS, AODV, and OLSR have 
> been evaluated by the working group 
> (draft-levis-roll-overview-protocols-00) and have in their current 
> form been found to not satisfy all of these specific routing 
> requirements “Routing Requirements for Urban Low-Power and Lossy 
> Networks” RFC 5548, “Industrial Routing Requirements in Low-Power and 
> Lossy Networks” RFC 5673, “Home Automation Routing Requirements in 
> Low-Power and Lossy Networks” RFC 5826, Building Automation Routing 
> Requirements in Low-Power and Lossy Networks RFC 5867.
>
> The Working Group is focused on routing issues for LLN and maintaining 
> the protocols developed by the working group.
>
> There is a wide scope of application areas for LLNs, including 
> industrial monitoring, building automation (HVAC, lighting, access 
> control, fire), connected homes, health care, environmental 
> monitoring, urban sensor networks (e.g. Smart Grid), asset tracking. 
> The Working Group focuses on routing solutions for a subset of these: 
> connected home, building and urban sensor networks for which routing 
> requirements have been specified. These application-specific routing 
> requirement documents were used for protocol design.
> The Working Group focuses on IPv6 routing architectural framework for 
> these application scenarios. The Framework will take into 
> consideration various aspects including high reliability in the 
> presence of time varying loss characteristics and connectivity while 
> permitting low-power operation with very modest memory and CPU 
> pressure in networks potentially comprising a very large number 
> (several thousands) of nodes.
>
> The Working Group will document how data packets are routed and 
> encapsulated when they cross the LLN, and when they enter and exit the 
> LLN: the appropriate use of RH3 (RFC6553),

 > It should be the other way around: RH3 is RFC6554 and RPI is RFC6553

> RPI (RFC6554) and IPv6-in-IPv6 encapsulation including how routing 
> loops are detected. In consultation with the 6lo WG, the Working Group 
> will design a method to compress these routing headers into a single 
> block. The WGLC on this work will be shared with 6lo. The Working 
> group will align with the 6man WG when needed.
> ROLL is responsible for maintenance of the protocols that is has 
> developed, including RPL and MPL. AD approval is required for each new 
> work item that is proposed.
>
> Work Items are:
>
> - Guidance in using RFC6553, RFC6554, and IPv6-in-IPv6 encapsulation.
>
> - Compression of  RFC6553, RFC6554, and IP headers in the 6LoWPAN 
> adaptation layer context
>
> - Additional protocol to  reduce paths for RPL in non-storing mode
>
> - Automatic selection of MPL forwarders to reduce message replication
>
> - Data models for RPL and MPL management
>
> - Alternative Multicast algorithm based on Bier forwarding.
>
> - Solution  of  the  problems associated with the use of No- Path DAO 
> messaging in RPL.

 > I remember a discussion on the mailing list about DAO/DAO-ACK being 
very underspecified,
which in turn may lead to non-interoperability between different 
implementations.
Should we use a more general wording here for the DAO handling, instead 
of just concentrating on the No-Path DAO?
For reference: 
https://www.ietf.org/mail-archive/web/roll/current/msg09449.html

>
> - Methods to improve the current RPL behaviour, e.g. DIS modifications 
> in RPL.
>
>
> Milestones                                        DATE
>
> Recharter WG or close                   September 2017
>
> Initial submission of draft about YANG RPL model to IESG   March 2017
>
> Initial submission of draft about MPL selection to IESG  January 2017
>
> Initial submission of draft about Bier Multicast to IESG      November 
> 2016
>
> Submit draft about YANG MPL model to IESG     October 2016
>
> Initial Submission of the draft about when to use RFC6553, RFC6554, 
> and IPv6-in-IPv6 encapsulation     August 2016
> Draft-ietf-roll-useofrplinfo to the IESG.
>
> Initial submission of the draft about how to compress RFC6553, 
> RFC6554, and IP headers in the 6LoWPAN adaptation layer context.  to 
> the IESG.    May 2016
> draft-ietf-roll-routing-dispatch
>
> Initial Submission of the No-Path DAO Problem Statement to the IESG   
>   November 2016
>
>
>
> /////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Roll mailing list
> Roll@ietf.org
> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/roll


--------------7ACBC1805E1B52BF63394879
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    <meta content="text/html; charset=utf-8" http-equiv="Content-Type">
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    <tt>Hello Ines,</tt><tt> Peter,<br>
      <br>
      the proposed charter looks great as it is,<br>
      however, I have a few remarks and questions that I</tt><tt>
      inlined below.</tt><tt><br>
      <br>
      Thanks!<br>
      <br>
      Best</tt><tt>,<br>
    </tt><tt>Cenk</tt><br>
    <br>
    <div class="moz-cite-prefix">On 06/21/2016 06:27 PM, Ines Robles
      wrote:<br>
    </div>
    <blockquote
cite="mid:CAP+sJUdRQHJhuszRLmMLoObVVELTGKAboPZpjHRV1M1t3T1BpA@mail.gmail.com"
      type="cite">
      <div dir="ltr"><span style="font-size:12.8px">Dear all, </span>
        <div style="font-size:12.8px"><br>
        </div>
        <div style="font-size:12.8px">Please find a draft of the working
          group charter.</div>
        <div style="font-size:12.8px"><br>
        </div>
        <div style="font-size:12.8px">Please review and comments. It
          would be good to have your comments before IETF 96.</div>
        <div style="font-size:12.8px"><br>
        </div>
        <div style="font-size:12.8px">Thank you very much in advance,</div>
        <div style="font-size:12.8px"><br>
        </div>
        <div style="font-size:12.8px">Peter and Ines</div>
        <div style="font-size:12.8px"><br>
        </div>
        <div style="font-size:12.8px">////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////</div>
        <div style="font-size:12.8px"><br>
        </div>
        <div style="font-size:12.8px">
          <div>Charter for Working Group</div>
          <div><br>
          </div>
          <div>Low power and Lossy Networks (LLNs) are made up of many
            embedded devices with limited </div>
        </div>
      </div>
    </blockquote>
    <br>
    &gt; Should we reference RFC7228: "Terminology for Constrained-Node
    Networks" here to have<br>
    a consistent and common definition of the term LLN?<br>
    <br>
    <blockquote
cite="mid:CAP+sJUdRQHJhuszRLmMLoObVVELTGKAboPZpjHRV1M1t3T1BpA@mail.gmail.com"
      type="cite">
      <div dir="ltr">
        <div style="font-size:12.8px">
          <div>power, memory, and processing resources. They are
            interconnected by a variety of links, such as IEEE 802.15.4,
            Bluetooth, Low Power WiFi, wired or other low power PLC
            (Powerline Communication) links. LLNs are transitioning to
            an end-to-end IP-based solution to avoid the problem of
            non-interoperable networks interconnected by protocol
            translation gateways and proxies.</div>
          <div><br>
          </div>
          <div>Generally speaking, LLNs are characterized as follows,
            but not limited to:</div>
          <div><br>
          </div>
          <div>-LLNs operate with a hard, very small bound on state. </div>
          <div><br>
          </div>
          <div>-In most cases, LLN optimize for saving energy by using
            small packet headers and few reduce amount of control
            packets.</div>
          <div> </div>
          <div>-Typical traffic patterns are not simply unicast flows
            (e.g. in some cases most if not all traffic can be point to
            multipoint).</div>
          <div><br>
          </div>
          <div>- In most cases, LLNs will be employed over link layers
            with restricted frame-sizes and low bit rates, thus a
            routing protocol for LLNs should be specifically adapted for
            such link layers. </div>
          <div><br>
          </div>
          <div>- LLN routing protocols have to be very careful when
            trading off efficiency for generality; since LLN nodes do
            not have resources to waste.<br>
          </div>
          <div><br>
          </div>
          <div><br>
          </div>
          <div>These specific properties cause LLNs to have specific
            routing requirements.</div>
          <div><br>
          </div>
          <div>Existing routing protocols such as OSPF, IS-IS, AODV, and
            OLSR have been evaluated by the working group
            (draft-levis-roll-overview-protocols-00) and have in their
            current form been found to not satisfy all of these specific
            routing requirements “Routing Requirements for Urban
            Low-Power and Lossy Networks” RFC 5548, “Industrial Routing
            Requirements in Low-Power and Lossy Networks” RFC 5673,
            “Home Automation Routing Requirements in Low-Power and Lossy
            Networks” RFC 5826, Building Automation Routing Requirements
            in Low-Power and Lossy Networks RFC 5867.</div>
          <div><br>
          </div>
          <div>The Working Group is focused on routing issues for LLN
            and maintaining the protocols developed by the working
            group.</div>
          <div><br>
          </div>
          <div>There is a wide scope of application areas for LLNs,
            including industrial monitoring, building automation (HVAC,
            lighting, access control, fire), connected homes, health
            care, environmental monitoring, urban sensor networks (e.g.
            Smart Grid), asset tracking. The Working Group focuses on
            routing solutions for a subset of these: connected home,
            building and urban sensor networks for which routing
            requirements have been specified. These application-specific
            routing requirement documents were used for protocol design.</div>
          <div>The Working Group focuses on IPv6 routing architectural
            framework for these application scenarios. The Framework
            will take into consideration various aspects including high
            reliability in the presence of time varying loss
            characteristics and connectivity while permitting low-power
            operation with very modest memory and CPU pressure in
            networks potentially comprising a very large number (several
            thousands) of nodes.</div>
          <div><br>
          </div>
          <div>The Working Group will document how data packets are
            routed and encapsulated when they cross the LLN, and when
            they enter and exit the LLN: the appropriate use of RH3
            (RFC6553), </div>
        </div>
      </div>
    </blockquote>
    <br>
    &gt; It should be the other way around: RH3 is RFC6554 and RPI is
    RFC6553<br>
    <br>
    <blockquote
cite="mid:CAP+sJUdRQHJhuszRLmMLoObVVELTGKAboPZpjHRV1M1t3T1BpA@mail.gmail.com"
      type="cite">
      <div dir="ltr">
        <div style="font-size:12.8px">
          <div>RPI (RFC6554) and IPv6-in-IPv6 encapsulation including
            how routing loops are detected. In consultation with the 6lo
            WG, the Working Group will design a method to compress these
            routing headers into a single block. The WGLC on this work
            will be shared with 6lo. The Working group will align with
            the 6man WG when needed.</div>
          <div>ROLL is responsible for maintenance of the protocols that
            is has developed, including RPL and MPL. AD approval is
            required for each new work item that is proposed.</div>
          <div><br>
          </div>
          <div>Work Items are:</div>
          <div><br>
          </div>
          <div>- Guidance in using RFC6553, RFC6554, and IPv6-in-IPv6
            encapsulation.</div>
          <div><br>
          </div>
          <div>- Compression of  RFC6553, RFC6554, and IP headers in the
            6LoWPAN adaptation layer context</div>
          <div><br>
          </div>
          <div>- Additional protocol to  reduce paths for RPL in
            non-storing mode</div>
          <div><br>
          </div>
          <div>- Automatic selection of MPL forwarders to reduce message
            replication</div>
          <div><br>
          </div>
          <div>- Data models for RPL and MPL management</div>
          <div><br>
          </div>
          <div>- Alternative Multicast algorithm based on Bier
            forwarding.</div>
          <div><br>
          </div>
          <div>- Solution  of  the  problems associated with the use of
            No- Path DAO messaging in RPL.</div>
        </div>
      </div>
    </blockquote>
    <br>
    &gt; I remember a discussion on the mailing list about DAO/DAO-ACK
    being very underspecified,<br>
    which in turn may lead to non-interoperability between different
    implementations.<br>
    Should we use a more general wording here for the DAO handling,
    instead of just concentrating on the No-Path DAO?<br>
    For reference:
    <a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="https://www.ietf.org/mail-archive/web/roll/current/msg09449.html">https://www.ietf.org/mail-archive/web/roll/current/msg09449.html</a><br>
    <br>
    <blockquote
cite="mid:CAP+sJUdRQHJhuszRLmMLoObVVELTGKAboPZpjHRV1M1t3T1BpA@mail.gmail.com"
      type="cite">
      <div dir="ltr">
        <div style="font-size:12.8px">
          <div><br>
          </div>
          <div>- Methods to improve the current RPL behaviour, e.g. DIS
            modifications in RPL.</div>
          <div><br>
          </div>
          <div><br>
          </div>
          <div>Milestones                                        DATE</div>
          <div><br>
          </div>
          <div>Recharter WG or close                   September 2017</div>
          <div><br>
          </div>
          <div>Initial submission of draft about YANG RPL model to IESG
              March 2017</div>
          <div><br>
          </div>
          <div>Initial submission of draft about MPL selection to IESG  
             January 2017</div>
          <div><br>
          </div>
          <div>Initial submission of draft about Bier Multicast to IESG
                 November 2016</div>
          <div><br>
          </div>
          <div>Submit draft about YANG MPL model to IESG     October
            2016</div>
          <div><br>
          </div>
          <div>Initial Submission of the draft about when to use
            RFC6553, RFC6554, and IPv6-in-IPv6 encapsulation     August
            2016</div>
          <div>Draft-ietf-roll-useofrplinfo to the IESG.</div>
          <div><br>
          </div>
          <div>Initial submission of the draft about how to compress
            RFC6553, RFC6554, and IP headers in the 6LoWPAN adaptation
            layer context.  to the IESG.    May 2016</div>
          <div>draft-ietf-roll-routing-dispatch       </div>
          <div><br>
          </div>
          <div>Initial Submission of the No-Path DAO Problem Statement
            to the IESG     November 2016</div>
        </div>
        <div style="font-size:12.8px"><br>
        </div>
        <div style="font-size:12.8px"><br>
        </div>
        <div style="font-size:12.8px"><br>
        </div>
        <div style="font-size:12.8px">/////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////</div>
      </div>
      <br>
      <fieldset class="mimeAttachmentHeader"></fieldset>
      <br>
      <pre wrap="">_______________________________________________
Roll mailing list
<a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:Roll@ietf.org">Roll@ietf.org</a>
<a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/roll">https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/roll</a>
</pre>
    </blockquote>
    <br>
  </body>
</html>

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Thank you very much Cenk and Rahul for your comments!! :-)

Please find attached the new charter including the corrections suggested by
Cenk.

Please comment,

Cheers,

Peter and Ines.

///////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////=
///////

Charter for Working Group

Low power and Lossy Networks (LLNs ) [RFC7102] [RFC7228] are made up of
many embedded devices with limited power, memory, and processing resources.
They are interconnected by a variety of links, such as IEEE 802.15.4,
Bluetooth, Low Power WiFi, wired or other low power PLC (Powerline
Communication) links. LLNs are transitioning to an end-to-end IP-based
solution to avoid the problem of non-interoperable networks interconnected
by protocol translation gateways and proxies.

Generally speaking, LLNs are characterized as follows, but not limited to:

LLNs operate with a hard, very small bound on state.

In most cases, LLN optimize for saving energy by using small packet headers
and reduce amount of control packets.

Typical traffic patterns are not simply unicast flows (e.g. in some cases
most if not all traffic can be point to multipoint).

In most cases, LLNs will be employed over link layers with restricted
frame-sizes and low bit rates, thus a routing protocol for LLNs should be
specifically adapted for such link layers.

LLN routing protocols have to be very careful when trading off efficiency
for generality; since LLN nodes do not have resources to waste.

These specific properties cause LLNs to have specific routing requirements.


Existing routing protocols such as OSPF, IS-IS, AODV, and OLSR have been
evaluated by the working group (draft-levis-roll-overview-protocols-00) and
have in their current form been found to not satisfy all of these specific
routing requirements =E2=80=9CRouting Requirements for Urban Low-Power and =
Lossy
Networks=E2=80=9D RFC 5548, =E2=80=9CIndustrial Routing Requirements in Low=
-Power and Lossy
Networks=E2=80=9D RFC 5673, =E2=80=9CHome Automation Routing Requirements i=
n Low-Power and
Lossy Networks=E2=80=9D RFC 5826, Building Automation Routing Requirements =
in
Low-Power and Lossy Networks RFC 5867.

The Working Group is focused on routing issues for LLN and maintaining the
protocols developed by the working group.


There is a wide scope of application areas for LLNs, including industrial
monitoring, building automation (HVAC, lighting, access control, fire),
connected homes, health care, environmental monitoring, urban sensor
networks (e.g. Smart Grid), asset tracking. The Working Group focuses on
routing solutions for a subset of these: connected home, building and urban
sensor networks for which routing requirements have been specified. These
application-specific routing requirement documents were used for protocol
design.
The Working Group focuses on IPv6 routing architectural framework for these
application scenarios. The Framework will take into consideration various
aspects including high reliability in the presence of time varying loss
characteristics and connectivity while permitting low-power operation with
very modest memory and CPU pressure in networks potentially comprising a
very large number (several thousands) of nodes.


The Working Group will document how data packets are routed and
encapsulated when they cross the LLN, and when they enter and exit the LLN:
the appropriate use of RPI (RFC6553), RH3 (RFC6554) and IPv6-in-IPv6
encapsulation including how routing loops are detected. In consultation
with the 6lo WG, the Working Group will design a method to compress these
routing headers into a single block. The WGLC on this work will be shared
with 6lo. The Working group will align with the 6man WG when needed.
ROLL is responsible for maintenance of the protocols that is has developed,
including RPL and MPL. AD approval is required for each new work item that
is proposed.


Work Items are:
- Guidance in using RFC6553, RFC6554, and IPv6-in-IPv6 encapsulation.

- Compression of  RFC6553, RFC6554, and IP headers in the 6LoWPAN
adaptation layer context

- Additional protocol to  reduce paths for RPL in non-storing mode

- Automatic selection of MPL forwarders to reduce message replication

- Data models for RPL and MPL management

- Alternative Multicast algorithm based on Bier forwarding.

-  Methods to improve or correct  the current RPL behaviour such as DIS
modifications and problems associated with DAO messaging in RPL


Milestones

DATE                            Milestone
September 2017            Recharter WG or close
March 2017           Initial submission of draft about YANG RPL model to
IESG
January 2017         Initial submission of draft about MPL selection to IES=
G
November 2016        Initial submission of draft about Bier Multicast to
IESG
October 2016         Submit draft about YANG MPL model to IESG
August 2016          Initial Submission of the draft about when to use
RFC6553, RFC6554, and IPv6-in-IPv6 encapsulation
Draft-ietf-roll-useofrplinfo to the IESG.
May 2016             Initial submission of the draft about how to compress
RFC6553, RFC6554, and IP headers in the 6LoWPAN adaptation layer context.
 to the IESG. draft-ietf-roll-routing-dispatch
November 2016        Initial Submission of the No-Path DAO Problem
Statement to the IESG

2016-06-23 6:56 GMT+03:00 Rahul Arvind Jadhav (Rahul Arvind Jadhav, 2012
Labs) <rahul.jadhav@huawei.com>:

> Thanks Peter, Ines,
>
>
>
> The updated charter looks good to me.
>
>
>
> And as I understand work items related to RPL maintenance can be
> incorporated depending upon the proposals received.
>
> E2E-ACK discussion that happened on the ML was an important discussion an=
d
> based on my understanding of that work, if proposed, will be relevant to
> maintenance activity. Thanks Cenk for bringing it up and I hope that work
> gets going.
>
>
>
> Regards,
>
> Rahul
>
>
>
> *From:* Roll [mailto:roll-bounces@ietf.org] *On Behalf Of *Cenk G=C3=BCnd=
ogan
> *Sent:* 22 June 2016 PM 01:58
> *To:* roll@ietf.org
> *Subject:* Re: [Roll] Request for Comments for ROLL Charter
>
>
>
> Hello Ines, Peter,
>
> the proposed charter looks great as it is,
> however, I have a few remarks and questions that I inlined below.
>
> Thanks!
>
> Best,
> Cenk
>
> On 06/21/2016 06:27 PM, Ines Robles wrote:
>
> Dear all,
>
>
>
> Please find a draft of the working group charter.
>
>
>
> Please review and comments. It would be good to have your comments before
> IETF 96.
>
>
>
> Thank you very much in advance,
>
>
>
> Peter and Ines
>
>
>
>
> /////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////=
///////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////=
////
>
>
>
> Charter for Working Group
>
>
>
> Low power and Lossy Networks (LLNs) are made up of many embedded devices
> with limited
>
>
> > Should we reference RFC7228: "Terminology for Constrained-Node Networks=
"
> here to have
> a consistent and common definition of the term LLN?
>
>
> power, memory, and processing resources. They are interconnected by a
> variety of links, such as IEEE 802.15.4, Bluetooth, Low Power WiFi, wired
> or other low power PLC (Powerline Communication) links. LLNs are
> transitioning to an end-to-end IP-based solution to avoid the problem of
> non-interoperable networks interconnected by protocol translation gateway=
s
> and proxies.
>
>
>
> Generally speaking, LLNs are characterized as follows, but not limited to=
:
>
>
>
> -LLNs operate with a hard, very small bound on state.
>
>
>
> -In most cases, LLN optimize for saving energy by using small packet
> headers and few reduce amount of control packets.
>
>
>
> -Typical traffic patterns are not simply unicast flows (e.g. in some case=
s
> most if not all traffic can be point to multipoint).
>
>
>
> - In most cases, LLNs will be employed over link layers with restricted
> frame-sizes and low bit rates, thus a routing protocol for LLNs should be
> specifically adapted for such link layers.
>
>
>
> - LLN routing protocols have to be very careful when trading off
> efficiency for generality; since LLN nodes do not have resources to waste=
.
>
>
>
>
>
> These specific properties cause LLNs to have specific routing requirement=
s.
>
>
>
> Existing routing protocols such as OSPF, IS-IS, AODV, and OLSR have been
> evaluated by the working group (draft-levis-roll-overview-protocols-00) a=
nd
> have in their current form been found to not satisfy all of these specifi=
c
> routing requirements =E2=80=9CRouting Requirements for Urban Low-Power an=
d Lossy
> Networks=E2=80=9D RFC 5548, =E2=80=9CIndustrial Routing Requirements in L=
ow-Power and Lossy
> Networks=E2=80=9D RFC 5673, =E2=80=9CHome Automation Routing Requirements=
 in Low-Power and
> Lossy Networks=E2=80=9D RFC 5826, Building Automation Routing Requirement=
s in
> Low-Power and Lossy Networks RFC 5867.
>
>
>
> The Working Group is focused on routing issues for LLN and maintaining th=
e
> protocols developed by the working group.
>
>
>
> There is a wide scope of application areas for LLNs, including industrial
> monitoring, building automation (HVAC, lighting, access control, fire),
> connected homes, health care, environmental monitoring, urban sensor
> networks (e.g. Smart Grid), asset tracking. The Working Group focuses on
> routing solutions for a subset of these: connected home, building and urb=
an
> sensor networks for which routing requirements have been specified. These
> application-specific routing requirement documents were used for protocol
> design.
>
> The Working Group focuses on IPv6 routing architectural framework for
> these application scenarios. The Framework will take into consideration
> various aspects including high reliability in the presence of time varyin=
g
> loss characteristics and connectivity while permitting low-power operatio=
n
> with very modest memory and CPU pressure in networks potentially comprisi=
ng
> a very large number (several thousands) of nodes.
>
>
>
> The Working Group will document how data packets are routed and
> encapsulated when they cross the LLN, and when they enter and exit the LL=
N:
> the appropriate use of RH3 (RFC6553),
>
>
> > It should be the other way around: RH3 is RFC6554 and RPI is RFC6553
>
>
> RPI (RFC6554) and IPv6-in-IPv6 encapsulation including how routing loops
> are detected. In consultation with the 6lo WG, the Working Group will
> design a method to compress these routing headers into a single block. Th=
e
> WGLC on this work will be shared with 6lo. The Working group will align
> with the 6man WG when needed.
>
> ROLL is responsible for maintenance of the protocols that is has
> developed, including RPL and MPL. AD approval is required for each new wo=
rk
> item that is proposed.
>
>
>
> Work Items are:
>
>
>
> - Guidance in using RFC6553, RFC6554, and IPv6-in-IPv6 encapsulation.
>
>
>
> - Compression of  RFC6553, RFC6554, and IP headers in the 6LoWPAN
> adaptation layer context
>
>
>
> - Additional protocol to  reduce paths for RPL in non-storing mode
>
>
>
> - Automatic selection of MPL forwarders to reduce message replication
>
>
>
> - Data models for RPL and MPL management
>
>
>
> - Alternative Multicast algorithm based on Bier forwarding.
>
>
>
> - Solution  of  the  problems associated with the use of No- Path DAO
> messaging in RPL.
>
>
> > I remember a discussion on the mailing list about DAO/DAO-ACK being ver=
y
> underspecified,
> which in turn may lead to non-interoperability between different
> implementations.
> Should we use a more general wording here for the DAO handling, instead o=
f
> just concentrating on the No-Path DAO?
> For reference:
> https://www.ietf.org/mail-archive/web/roll/current/msg09449.html
>
>
>
>
> - Methods to improve the current RPL behaviour, e.g. DIS modifications in
> RPL.
>
>
>
>
>
> Milestones                                        DATE
>
>
>
> Recharter WG or close                   September 2017
>
>
>
> Initial submission of draft about YANG RPL model to IESG   March 2017
>
>
>
> Initial submission of draft about MPL selection to IESG    January 2017
>
>
>
> Initial submission of draft about Bier Multicast to IESG      November 20=
16
>
>
>
> Submit draft about YANG MPL model to IESG     October 2016
>
>
>
> Initial Submission of the draft about when to use RFC6553, RFC6554, and
> IPv6-in-IPv6 encapsulation     August 2016
>
> Draft-ietf-roll-useofrplinfo to the IESG.
>
>
>
> Initial submission of the draft about how to compress RFC6553, RFC6554,
> and IP headers in the 6LoWPAN adaptation layer context.  to the IESG.
>  May 2016
>
> draft-ietf-roll-routing-dispatch
>
>
>
> Initial Submission of the No-Path DAO Problem Statement to the IESG
> November 2016
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> /////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////=
///////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////=
/////////////////////////////////
>
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
>
> Roll mailing list
>
> Roll@ietf.org
>
> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/roll
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Roll mailing list
> Roll@ietf.org
> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/roll
>
>

--001a1135cfe2f44e930535ec95c1
Content-Type: text/html; charset=UTF-8
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

<div dir=3D"ltr"><div>Thank you very much Cenk and Rahul for your comments!=
! :-)</div><div><br></div><div>Please find attached the new charter includi=
ng the corrections suggested by Cenk.</div><div><br></div><div>Please comme=
nt,=C2=A0</div><div><br></div><div>Cheers,</div><div><br></div><div>Peter a=
nd Ines.</div><div><br></div><div>/////////////////////////////////////////=
/////////////////////////////////////////</div><div><br></div><div>Charter =
for Working Group</div><div><br></div><div>Low power and Lossy Networks (LL=
Ns ) [RFC7102] [RFC7228] are made up of many embedded devices with limited =
power, memory, and processing resources. They are interconnected by a varie=
ty of links, such as IEEE 802.15.4, Bluetooth, Low Power WiFi, wired or oth=
er low power PLC (Powerline Communication) links. LLNs are transitioning to=
 an end-to-end IP-based solution to avoid the problem of non-interoperable =
networks interconnected by protocol translation gateways and proxies.</div>=
<div><br></div><div>Generally speaking, LLNs are characterized as follows, =
but not limited to:</div><div><br></div><div>LLNs operate with a hard, very=
 small bound on state.=C2=A0</div><div><br></div><div>In most cases, LLN op=
timize for saving energy by using small packet headers and reduce amount of=
 control packets.</div><div><br></div><div>Typical traffic patterns are not=
 simply unicast flows (e.g. in some cases most if not all traffic can be po=
int to multipoint).</div><div><br></div><div>In most cases, LLNs will be em=
ployed over link layers with restricted frame-sizes and low bit rates, thus=
 a routing protocol for LLNs should be specifically adapted for such link l=
ayers.=C2=A0</div><div><br></div><div>LLN routing protocols have to be very=
 careful when trading off efficiency for generality; since LLN nodes do not=
 have resources to waste.</div><div><br></div><div>These specific propertie=
s cause LLNs to have specific routing requirements.</div><div><br></div><di=
v><br></div><div>Existing routing protocols such as OSPF, IS-IS, AODV, and =
OLSR have been evaluated by the working group (draft-levis-roll-overview-pr=
otocols-00) and have in their current form been found to not satisfy all of=
 these specific routing requirements =E2=80=9CRouting Requirements for Urba=
n Low-Power and Lossy Networks=E2=80=9D RFC 5548, =E2=80=9CIndustrial Routi=
ng Requirements in Low-Power and Lossy Networks=E2=80=9D RFC 5673, =E2=80=
=9CHome Automation Routing Requirements in Low-Power and Lossy Networks=E2=
=80=9D RFC 5826, Building Automation Routing Requirements in Low-Power and =
Lossy Networks RFC 5867.</div><div><br></div><div>The Working Group is focu=
sed on routing issues for LLN and maintaining the protocols developed by th=
e working group.</div><div><br></div><div><br></div><div>There is a wide sc=
ope of application areas for LLNs, including industrial monitoring, buildin=
g automation (HVAC, lighting, access control, fire), connected homes, healt=
h care, environmental monitoring, urban sensor networks (e.g. Smart Grid), =
asset tracking. The Working Group focuses on routing solutions for a subset=
 of these: connected home, building and urban sensor networks for which rou=
ting requirements have been specified. These application-specific routing r=
equirement documents were used for protocol design.</div><div>The Working G=
roup focuses on IPv6 routing architectural framework for these application =
scenarios. The Framework will take into consideration various aspects inclu=
ding high reliability in the presence of time varying loss characteristics =
and connectivity while permitting low-power operation with very modest memo=
ry and CPU pressure in networks potentially comprising a very large number =
(several thousands) of nodes.</div><div><br></div><div><br></div><div>The W=
orking Group will document how data packets are routed and encapsulated whe=
n they cross the LLN, and when they enter and exit the LLN: the appropriate=
 use of RPI (RFC6553), RH3 (RFC6554) and IPv6-in-IPv6 encapsulation includi=
ng how routing loops are detected. In consultation with the 6lo WG, the Wor=
king Group will design a method to compress these routing headers into a si=
ngle block. The WGLC on this work will be shared with 6lo. The Working grou=
p will align with the 6man WG when needed.</div><div>ROLL is responsible fo=
r maintenance of the protocols that is has developed, including RPL and MPL=
. AD approval is required for each new work item that is proposed.</div><di=
v><br></div><div><br></div><div>Work Items are:</div><div>- Guidance in usi=
ng RFC6553, RFC6554, and IPv6-in-IPv6 encapsulation.</div><div><br></div><d=
iv>- Compression of =C2=A0RFC6553, RFC6554, and IP headers in the 6LoWPAN a=
daptation layer context</div><div><br></div><div>- Additional protocol to =
=C2=A0reduce paths for RPL in non-storing mode</div><div><br></div><div>- A=
utomatic selection of MPL forwarders to reduce message replication</div><di=
v><br></div><div>- Data models for RPL and MPL management</div><div><br></d=
iv><div>- Alternative Multicast algorithm based on Bier forwarding.</div><d=
iv><br></div><div>- =C2=A0Methods to improve or correct =C2=A0the current R=
PL behaviour such as DIS modifications and problems associated with DAO mes=
saging in RPL</div><div><br></div><div><br></div><div>Milestones</div><div>=
<br></div><div>DATE =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0=
 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0Milestone</div><div>September 201=
7 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0Recharter WG or close</div><div>=
March 2017 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 Initial submission of draft a=
bout YANG RPL model to IESG</div><div>January 2017 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=
=A0 Initial submission of draft about MPL selection to IESG</div><div>Novem=
ber 2016 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0Initial submission of draft about Bier =
Multicast to IESG</div><div>October 2016 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 Submit=
 draft about YANG MPL model to IESG</div><div>August 2016 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=
=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0Initial Submission of the draft about when to use RFC6553,=
 RFC6554, and IPv6-in-IPv6 encapsulation Draft-ietf-roll-useofrplinfo to th=
e IESG.</div><div>May 2016 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 Initia=
l submission of the draft about how to compress RFC6553, RFC6554, and IP he=
aders in the 6LoWPAN adaptation layer context. =C2=A0to the IESG. draft-iet=
f-roll-routing-dispatch</div><div>November 2016 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0=
Initial Submission of the No-Path DAO Problem Statement to the IESG</div></=
div><div class=3D"gmail_extra"><br><div class=3D"gmail_quote">2016-06-23 6:=
56 GMT+03:00 Rahul Arvind Jadhav (Rahul Arvind Jadhav, 2012 Labs) <span dir=
=3D"ltr">&lt;<a href=3D"mailto:rahul.jadhav@huawei.com" target=3D"_blank">r=
ahul.jadhav@huawei.com</a>&gt;</span>:<br><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote"=
 style=3D"margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">





<div bgcolor=3D"white" lang=3D"EN-US" link=3D"blue" vlink=3D"purple">
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#1f497d">Thanks Peter, Ines,<u></u=
><u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#1f497d"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></spa=
n></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#1f497d">The updated charter looks=
 good to me.<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#1f497d"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></spa=
n></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#1f497d">And as I understand work =
items related to RPL maintenance can be incorporated depending upon the pro=
posals received.
<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#1f497d">E2E-ACK discussion that h=
appened on the ML was an important discussion and based on my understanding=
 of that work, if proposed, will be relevant to maintenance
 activity. Thanks Cenk for bringing it up and I hope that work gets going.<=
u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#1f497d"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></spa=
n></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#1f497d">Regards,<u></u><u></u></s=
pan></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#1f497d">Rahul
<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#1f497d"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></spa=
n></p>
<div>
<div style=3D"border:none;border-top:solid #b5c4df 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0cm =
0cm 0cm">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><b><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot=
;Tahoma&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:windowtext">From:</span></b><spa=
n style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Tahoma&quot;,&quot;sans-serif=
&quot;;color:windowtext"> Roll [mailto:<a href=3D"mailto:roll-bounces@ietf.=
org" target=3D"_blank">roll-bounces@ietf.org</a>]
<b>On Behalf Of </b>Cenk G=C3=BCndogan<br>
<b>Sent:</b> 22 June 2016 PM 01:58<br>
<b>To:</b> <a href=3D"mailto:roll@ietf.org" target=3D"_blank">roll@ietf.org=
</a><br>
<b>Subject:</b> Re: [Roll] Request for Comments for ROLL Charter<u></u><u><=
/u></span></p>
</div>
</div><div><div class=3D"h5">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-bottom:12.0pt"><tt><span style=3D"fo=
nt-size:10.0pt">Hello Ines, Peter,</span></tt><span style=3D"font-size:10.0=
pt;font-family:&quot;Courier New&quot;"><br>
<br>
<tt>the proposed charter looks great as it is,</tt><br>
<tt>however, I have a few remarks and questions that I inlined below.</tt><=
br>
<br>
<tt>Thanks!</tt><br>
<br>
<tt>Best,</tt><br>
<tt>Cenk</tt></span><u></u><u></u></p>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">On 06/21/2016 06:27 PM, Ines Robles wrote:<u></u><u>=
</u></p>
</div>
<blockquote style=3D"margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-right:36.0pt;margin-bottom:0cm;margi=
n-left:36.0pt;margin-bottom:.0001pt">
<span style=3D"font-size:9.5pt">Dear all,=C2=A0</span> <u></u><u></u></p>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:9.5pt"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u>=
</span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-right:36.0pt;margin-bottom:0cm;margi=
n-left:36.0pt;margin-bottom:.0001pt">
<span style=3D"font-size:9.5pt">Please find a draft of the working group ch=
arter.<u></u><u></u></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:9.5pt"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u>=
</span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-right:36.0pt;margin-bottom:0cm;margi=
n-left:36.0pt;margin-bottom:.0001pt">
<span style=3D"font-size:9.5pt">Please review and comments. It would be goo=
d to have your comments before IETF 96.<u></u><u></u></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:9.5pt"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u>=
</span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-right:36.0pt;margin-bottom:0cm;margi=
n-left:36.0pt;margin-bottom:.0001pt">
<span style=3D"font-size:9.5pt">Thank you very much in advance,<u></u><u></=
u></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:9.5pt"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u>=
</span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-right:36.0pt;margin-bottom:0cm;margi=
n-left:36.0pt;margin-bottom:.0001pt">
<span style=3D"font-size:9.5pt">Peter and Ines<u></u><u></u></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:9.5pt"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u>=
</span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-right:36.0pt;margin-bottom:0cm;margi=
n-left:36.0pt;margin-bottom:.0001pt">
<span style=3D"font-size:9.5pt">///////////////////////////////////////////=
///////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////=
//////////////////////////////////<u></u><u></u></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:9.5pt"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u>=
</span></p>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-right:36.0pt;margin-bottom:0cm;margi=
n-left:36.0pt;margin-bottom:.0001pt">
<span style=3D"font-size:9.5pt">Charter for Working Group<u></u><u></u></sp=
an></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:9.5pt"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u>=
</span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-right:36.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt;mar=
gin-left:36.0pt">
<span style=3D"font-size:9.5pt">Low power and Lossy Networks (LLNs) are mad=
e up of many embedded devices with limited
<u></u><u></u></span></p>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</blockquote>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><br>
&gt; Should we reference RFC7228: &quot;Terminology for Constrained-Node Ne=
tworks&quot; here to have<br>
a consistent and common definition of the term LLN?<br>
<br>
<br>
<u></u><u></u></p>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:9.5pt">power, memory, and p=
rocessing resources. They are interconnected by a variety of links, such as=
 IEEE 802.15.4, Bluetooth, Low Power WiFi, wired or other low power PLC (Po=
werline Communication) links. LLNs are
 transitioning to an end-to-end IP-based solution to avoid the problem of n=
on-interoperable networks interconnected by protocol translation gateways a=
nd proxies.<u></u><u></u></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:9.5pt"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u>=
</span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:9.5pt">Generally speaking, =
LLNs are characterized as follows, but not limited to:<u></u><u></u></span>=
</p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:9.5pt"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u>=
</span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:9.5pt">-LLNs operate with a=
 hard, very small bound on state.=C2=A0<u></u><u></u></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:9.5pt"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u>=
</span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:9.5pt">-In most cases, LLN =
optimize for saving energy by using small packet headers and few reduce amo=
unt of control packets.<u></u><u></u></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:9.5pt">=C2=A0<u></u><u></u>=
</span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:9.5pt">-Typical traffic pat=
terns are not simply unicast flows (e.g. in some cases most if not all traf=
fic can be point to multipoint).<u></u><u></u></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:9.5pt"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u>=
</span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:9.5pt">- In most cases, LLN=
s will be employed over link layers with restricted frame-sizes and low bit=
 rates, thus a routing protocol for LLNs should be specifically adapted for=
 such link layers.=C2=A0<u></u><u></u></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:9.5pt"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u>=
</span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:9.5pt">- LLN routing protoc=
ols have to be very careful when trading off efficiency for generality; sin=
ce LLN nodes do not have resources to waste.<u></u><u></u></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:9.5pt"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u>=
</span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:9.5pt"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u>=
</span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:9.5pt">These specific prope=
rties cause LLNs to have specific routing requirements.<u></u><u></u></span=
></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:9.5pt"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u>=
</span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:9.5pt">Existing routing pro=
tocols such as OSPF, IS-IS, AODV, and OLSR have been evaluated by the worki=
ng group (draft-levis-roll-overview-protocols-00) and have in their current=
 form been found to not satisfy all
 of these specific routing requirements =E2=80=9CRouting Requirements for U=
rban Low-Power and Lossy Networks=E2=80=9D RFC 5548, =E2=80=9CIndustrial Ro=
uting Requirements in Low-Power and Lossy Networks=E2=80=9D RFC 5673, =E2=
=80=9CHome Automation Routing Requirements in Low-Power and Lossy Networks=
=E2=80=9D
 RFC 5826, Building Automation Routing Requirements in Low-Power and Lossy =
Networks RFC 5867.<u></u><u></u></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:9.5pt"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u>=
</span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:9.5pt">The Working Group is=
 focused on routing issues for LLN and maintaining the protocols developed =
by the working group.<u></u><u></u></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:9.5pt"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u>=
</span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:9.5pt">There is a wide scop=
e of application areas for LLNs, including industrial monitoring, building =
automation (HVAC, lighting, access control, fire), connected homes, health =
care, environmental monitoring, urban
 sensor networks (e.g. Smart Grid), asset tracking. The Working Group focus=
es on routing solutions for a subset of these: connected home, building and=
 urban sensor networks for which routing requirements have been specified. =
These application-specific routing
 requirement documents were used for protocol design.<u></u><u></u></span><=
/p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:9.5pt">The Working Group fo=
cuses on IPv6 routing architectural framework for these application scenari=
os. The Framework will take into consideration various aspects including hi=
gh reliability in the presence of time
 varying loss characteristics and connectivity while permitting low-power o=
peration with very modest memory and CPU pressure in networks potentially c=
omprising a very large number (several thousands) of nodes.<u></u><u></u></=
span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:9.5pt"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u>=
</span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:9.5pt">The Working Group wi=
ll document how data packets are routed and encapsulated when they cross th=
e LLN, and when they enter and exit the LLN: the appropriate use of RH3 (RF=
C6553),
<u></u><u></u></span></p>
</div>
</div>
</div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><br>
&gt; It should be the other way around: RH3 is RFC6554 and RPI is RFC6553<b=
r>
<br>
<br>
<u></u><u></u></p>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:9.5pt">RPI (RFC6554) and IP=
v6-in-IPv6 encapsulation including how routing loops are detected. In consu=
ltation with the 6lo WG, the Working Group will design a method to compress=
 these routing headers into a single
 block. The WGLC on this work will be shared with 6lo. The Working group wi=
ll align with the 6man WG when needed.<u></u><u></u></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:9.5pt">ROLL is responsible =
for maintenance of the protocols that is has developed, including RPL and M=
PL. AD approval is required for each new work item that is proposed.<u></u>=
<u></u></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:9.5pt"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u>=
</span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:9.5pt">Work Items are:<u></=
u><u></u></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:9.5pt"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u>=
</span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:9.5pt">- Guidance in using =
RFC6553, RFC6554, and IPv6-in-IPv6 encapsulation.<u></u><u></u></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:9.5pt"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u>=
</span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:9.5pt">- Compression of =C2=
=A0RFC6553, RFC6554, and IP headers in the 6LoWPAN adaptation layer context=
<u></u><u></u></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:9.5pt"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u>=
</span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:9.5pt">- Additional protoco=
l to =C2=A0reduce paths for RPL in non-storing mode<u></u><u></u></span></p=
>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:9.5pt"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u>=
</span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:9.5pt">- Automatic selectio=
n of MPL forwarders to reduce message replication<u></u><u></u></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:9.5pt"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u>=
</span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:9.5pt">- Data models for RP=
L and MPL management<u></u><u></u></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:9.5pt"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u>=
</span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:9.5pt">- Alternative Multic=
ast algorithm based on Bier forwarding.<u></u><u></u></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:9.5pt"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u>=
</span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:9.5pt">- Solution =C2=A0of =
=C2=A0the =C2=A0problems associated with the use of No- Path DAO messaging =
in RPL.<u></u><u></u></span></p>
</div>
</div>
</div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><br>
&gt; I remember a discussion on the mailing list about DAO/DAO-ACK being ve=
ry underspecified,<br>
which in turn may lead to non-interoperability between different implementa=
tions.<br>
Should we use a more general wording here for the DAO handling, instead of =
just concentrating on the No-Path DAO?<br>
For reference: <a href=3D"https://www.ietf.org/mail-archive/web/roll/curren=
t/msg09449.html" target=3D"_blank">
https://www.ietf.org/mail-archive/web/roll/current/msg09449.html</a><br>
<br>
<br>
<u></u><u></u></p>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:9.5pt"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u>=
</span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:9.5pt">- Methods to improve=
 the current RPL behaviour, e.g. DIS modifications in RPL.<u></u><u></u></s=
pan></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:9.5pt"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u>=
</span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:9.5pt"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u>=
</span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:9.5pt">Milestones =C2=A0 =
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=
=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0DATE<u></u><u></=
u></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:9.5pt"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u>=
</span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:9.5pt">Recharter WG or clos=
e =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 September =
2017<u></u><u></u></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:9.5pt"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u>=
</span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:9.5pt">Initial submission o=
f draft about YANG RPL model to IESG =C2=A0 March 2017<u></u><u></u></span>=
</p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:9.5pt"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u>=
</span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:9.5pt">Initial submission o=
f draft about MPL selection to IESG =C2=A0 =C2=A0January 2017<u></u><u></u>=
</span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:9.5pt"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u>=
</span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:9.5pt">Initial submission o=
f draft about Bier Multicast to IESG =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0November 2016<u></=
u><u></u></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:9.5pt"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u>=
</span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:9.5pt">Submit draft about Y=
ANG MPL model to IESG =C2=A0 =C2=A0 October 2016<u></u><u></u></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:9.5pt"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u>=
</span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:9.5pt">Initial Submission o=
f the draft about when to use RFC6553, RFC6554, and IPv6-in-IPv6 encapsulat=
ion =C2=A0 =C2=A0 August 2016<u></u><u></u></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:9.5pt">Draft-ietf-roll-useo=
frplinfo to the IESG.<u></u><u></u></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:9.5pt"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u>=
</span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:9.5pt">Initial submission o=
f the draft about how to compress RFC6553, RFC6554, and IP headers in the 6=
LoWPAN adaptation layer context. =C2=A0to the IESG. =C2=A0 =C2=A0May 2016<u=
></u><u></u></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:9.5pt">draft-ietf-roll-rout=
ing-dispatch =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0=C2=A0<u></u><u></u></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:9.5pt"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u>=
</span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:9.5pt">Initial Submission o=
f the No-Path DAO Problem Statement to the IESG =C2=A0 =C2=A0 November 2016=
<u></u><u></u></span></p>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:9.5pt"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u>=
</span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:9.5pt"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u>=
</span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:9.5pt"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u>=
</span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:9.5pt">////////////////////=
///////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////=
///////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////=
///////////<u></u><u></u></span></p>
</div>
</div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><br>
<br>
<br>
<u></u><u></u></p>
<pre>_______________________________________________<u></u><u></u></pre>
<pre>Roll mailing list<u></u><u></u></pre>
<pre><a href=3D"mailto:Roll@ietf.org" target=3D"_blank">Roll@ietf.org</a><u=
></u><u></u></pre>
<pre><a href=3D"https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/roll" target=3D"_blan=
k">https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/roll</a><u></u><u></u></pre>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></p>
</div></div></div>
</div>

<br>_______________________________________________<br>
Roll mailing list<br>
<a href=3D"mailto:Roll@ietf.org">Roll@ietf.org</a><br>
<a href=3D"https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/roll" rel=3D"noreferrer" t=
arget=3D"_blank">https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/roll</a><br>
<br></blockquote></div><br></div>

--001a1135cfe2f44e930535ec95c1--


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Dear all,

ROLL is going to have a meeting at IETF 96 ( 1:30 hs )

Please let us know if you want to present your work in IETF 96, specifying:

- Draft/work to present
- Time requested
- Presenter name.
- To be presented remotely?

Thank you very much in advance,

Peter and Ines.

--001a113d0ad4b1a7300535edb318
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<div dir=3D"ltr">Dear all,<div><br></div><div>ROLL is going to have a meeti=
ng at IETF 96 ( 1:30 hs )</div><div><br></div><div>Please let us know if yo=
u want to present your work in IETF 96, specifying:</div><div><br></div><di=
v>- Draft/work to present=C2=A0</div><div>- Time requested</div><div>- Pres=
enter name.</div><div>- To be presented remotely?</div><div><br></div><div>=
Thank you very much in advance,</div><div><br></div><div>Peter and Ines.</d=
iv></div>

--001a113d0ad4b1a7300535edb318--


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From: <dominique.barthel@orange.com>
To: Routing Over Low power and Lossy networks <roll@ietf.org>
Thread-Topic: [Roll] Request for Slot - IETF 96
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Subject: Re: [Roll] Request for Slot - IETF 96
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--_000_D3916AFE35F03dominiquebarthelorangecom_
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Hello Peter, Ines,

Yes, I guess we would like to talk again about the "selective DIS" work and=
 try to attract discussion/contributions.
The presenter could be Cenk, Emmanuel or myself, we'll reconfirm later.
15 mn would be good.
Thanks

Dominique

De : Roll <roll-bounces@ietf.org<mailto:roll-bounces@ietf.org>> on behalf o=
f "mariainesrobles@googlemail.com<mailto:mariainesrobles@googlemail.com>" <=
mariainesrobles@googlemail.com<mailto:mariainesrobles@googlemail.com>>
R=E9pondre =E0 : "roll@ietf.org<mailto:roll@ietf.org>" <roll@ietf.org<mailt=
o:roll@ietf.org>>
Date : Thursday 23 June 2016 10:18
=C0 : "roll@ietf.org<mailto:roll@ietf.org>" <roll@ietf.org<mailto:roll@ietf=
.org>>
Cc : peter van der Stok <stokcons@xs4all.nl<mailto:stokcons@xs4all.nl>>
Objet : [Roll] Request for Slot - IETF 96

Dear all,

ROLL is going to have a meeting at IETF 96 ( 1:30 hs )

Please let us know if you want to present your work in IETF 96, specifying:

- Draft/work to present
- Time requested
- Presenter name.
- To be presented remotely?

Thank you very much in advance,

Peter and Ines.

___________________________________________________________________________=
______________________________________________

Ce message et ses pieces jointes peuvent contenir des informations confiden=
tielles ou privilegiees et ne doivent donc
pas etre diffuses, exploites ou copies sans autorisation. Si vous avez recu=
 ce message par erreur, veuillez le signaler
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ectroniques etant susceptibles d'alteration,
Orange decline toute responsabilite si ce message a ete altere, deforme ou =
falsifie. Merci.

This message and its attachments may contain confidential or privileged inf=
ormation that may be protected by law;
they should not be distributed, used or copied without authorisation.
If you have received this email in error, please notify the sender and dele=
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--_000_D3916AFE35F03dominiquebarthelorangecom_
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<html>
<head>
<meta http-equiv=3D"Content-Type" content=3D"text/html; charset=3Diso-8859-=
1">
</head>
<body style=3D"word-wrap: break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; -webkit-lin=
e-break: after-white-space; color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-size: 14px; font-fami=
ly: Calibri, sans-serif;">
<div>Hello Peter, Ines,</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>Yes, I guess we would like to talk again about the &quot;selective DIS=
&quot; work and try to attract discussion/contributions.</div>
<div>The presenter could be Cenk, Emmanuel or myself, we'll reconfirm later=
.</div>
<div>15 mn would be good.</div>
<div>Thanks</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>Dominique</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<span id=3D"OLK_SRC_BODY_SECTION">
<div style=3D"font-family:Calibri; font-size:11pt; text-align:left; color:b=
lack; BORDER-BOTTOM: medium none; BORDER-LEFT: medium none; PADDING-BOTTOM:=
 0in; PADDING-LEFT: 0in; PADDING-RIGHT: 0in; BORDER-TOP: #b5c4df 1pt solid;=
 BORDER-RIGHT: medium none; PADDING-TOP: 3pt">
<span style=3D"font-weight:bold">De&nbsp;: </span>Roll &lt;<a href=3D"mailt=
o:roll-bounces@ietf.org">roll-bounces@ietf.org</a>&gt; on behalf of &quot;<=
a href=3D"mailto:mariainesrobles@googlemail.com">mariainesrobles@googlemail=
.com</a>&quot; &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:mariainesrobles@googlemail.com">mariai=
nesrobles@googlemail.com</a>&gt;<br>
<span style=3D"font-weight:bold">R=E9pondre =E0&nbsp;: </span>&quot;<a href=
=3D"mailto:roll@ietf.org">roll@ietf.org</a>&quot; &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:rol=
l@ietf.org">roll@ietf.org</a>&gt;<br>
<span style=3D"font-weight:bold">Date&nbsp;: </span>Thursday 23 June 2016 1=
0:18<br>
<span style=3D"font-weight:bold">=C0&nbsp;: </span>&quot;<a href=3D"mailto:=
roll@ietf.org">roll@ietf.org</a>&quot; &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:roll@ietf.org"=
>roll@ietf.org</a>&gt;<br>
<span style=3D"font-weight:bold">Cc&nbsp;: </span>peter van der Stok &lt;<a=
 href=3D"mailto:stokcons@xs4all.nl">stokcons@xs4all.nl</a>&gt;<br>
<span style=3D"font-weight:bold">Objet&nbsp;: </span>[Roll] Request for Slo=
t - IETF 96<br>
</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<div dir=3D"ltr">Dear all,
<div><br>
</div>
<div>ROLL is going to have a meeting at IETF 96 ( 1:30 hs )</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>Please let us know if you want to present your work in IETF 96, specif=
ying:</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>- Draft/work to present&nbsp;</div>
<div>- Time requested</div>
<div>- Presenter name.</div>
<div>- To be presented remotely?</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>Thank you very much in advance,</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>Peter and Ines.</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</span>
<PRE>______________________________________________________________________=
___________________________________________________

Ce message et ses pieces jointes peuvent contenir des informations confiden=
tielles ou privilegiees et ne doivent donc
pas etre diffuses, exploites ou copies sans autorisation. Si vous avez recu=
 ce message par erreur, veuillez le signaler
a l'expediteur et le detruire ainsi que les pieces jointes. Les messages el=
ectroniques etant susceptibles d'alteration,
Orange decline toute responsabilite si ce message a ete altere, deforme ou =
falsifie. Merci.

This message and its attachments may contain confidential or privileged inf=
ormation that may be protected by law;
they should not be distributed, used or copied without authorisation.
If you have received this email in error, please notify the sender and dele=
te this message and its attachments.
As emails may be altered, Orange is not liable for messages that have been =
modified, changed or falsified.
Thank you.
</PRE></body>
</html>

--_000_D3916AFE35F03dominiquebarthelorangecom_--


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From: Ines  Robles <mariainesrobles@googlemail.com>
Date: Thu, 23 Jun 2016 12:29:50 +0300
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Subject: Re: [Roll] Request for Slot - IETF 96
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Ok, Thank you very much Dominique,

We will keep you posted

Cheers,

Peter and Ines

2016-06-23 11:33 GMT+03:00 <dominique.barthel@orange.com>:

> Hello Peter, Ines,
>
> Yes, I guess we would like to talk again about the "selective DIS" work
> and try to attract discussion/contributions.
> The presenter could be Cenk, Emmanuel or myself, we'll reconfirm later.
> 15 mn would be good.
> Thanks
>
> Dominique
>
> De : Roll <roll-bounces@ietf.org> on behalf of "
> mariainesrobles@googlemail.com" <mariainesrobles@googlemail.com>
> R=C3=A9pondre =C3=A0 : "roll@ietf.org" <roll@ietf.org>
> Date : Thursday 23 June 2016 10:18
> =C3=80 : "roll@ietf.org" <roll@ietf.org>
> Cc : peter van der Stok <stokcons@xs4all.nl>
> Objet : [Roll] Request for Slot - IETF 96
>
> Dear all,
>
> ROLL is going to have a meeting at IETF 96 ( 1:30 hs )
>
> Please let us know if you want to present your work in IETF 96, specifyin=
g:
>
> - Draft/work to present
> - Time requested
> - Presenter name.
> - To be presented remotely?
>
> Thank you very much in advance,
>
> Peter and Ines.
>
> _________________________________________________________________________=
________________________________________________
>
> Ce message et ses pieces jointes peuvent contenir des informations confid=
entielles ou privilegiees et ne doivent donc
> pas etre diffuses, exploites ou copies sans autorisation. Si vous avez re=
cu ce message par erreur, veuillez le signaler
> a l'expediteur et le detruire ainsi que les pieces jointes. Les messages =
electroniques etant susceptibles d'alteration,
> Orange decline toute responsabilite si ce message a ete altere, deforme o=
u falsifie. Merci.
>
> This message and its attachments may contain confidential or privileged i=
nformation that may be protected by law;
> they should not be distributed, used or copied without authorisation.
> If you have received this email in error, please notify the sender and de=
lete this message and its attachments.
> As emails may be altered, Orange is not liable for messages that have bee=
n modified, changed or falsified.
> Thank you.
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Roll mailing list
> Roll@ietf.org
> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/roll
>
>

--001a113ddfbc1f33250535eeb20d
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<div dir=3D"ltr">Ok, Thank you very much Dominique,=C2=A0<div><br></div><di=
v>We will keep you posted<br><div><br></div><div>Cheers,</div><div><br></di=
v><div>Peter and Ines</div></div></div><div class=3D"gmail_extra"><br><div =
class=3D"gmail_quote">2016-06-23 11:33 GMT+03:00  <span dir=3D"ltr">&lt;<a =
href=3D"mailto:dominique.barthel@orange.com" target=3D"_blank">dominique.ba=
rthel@orange.com</a>&gt;</span>:<br><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=
=3D"margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">



<div style=3D"word-wrap:break-word;color:rgb(0,0,0);font-size:14px;font-fam=
ily:Calibri,sans-serif">
<div>Hello Peter, Ines,</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>Yes, I guess we would like to talk again about the &quot;selective DIS=
&quot; work and try to attract discussion/contributions.</div>
<div>The presenter could be Cenk, Emmanuel or myself, we&#39;ll reconfirm l=
ater.</div>
<div>15 mn would be good.</div>
<div>Thanks</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>Dominique</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<span>
<div style=3D"font-family:Calibri;font-size:11pt;text-align:left;color:blac=
k;BORDER-BOTTOM:medium none;BORDER-LEFT:medium none;PADDING-BOTTOM:0in;PADD=
ING-LEFT:0in;PADDING-RIGHT:0in;BORDER-TOP:#b5c4df 1pt solid;BORDER-RIGHT:me=
dium none;PADDING-TOP:3pt">
<span style=3D"font-weight:bold">De=C2=A0: </span>Roll &lt;<a href=3D"mailt=
o:roll-bounces@ietf.org" target=3D"_blank">roll-bounces@ietf.org</a>&gt; on=
 behalf of &quot;<a href=3D"mailto:mariainesrobles@googlemail.com" target=
=3D"_blank">mariainesrobles@googlemail.com</a>&quot; &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:=
mariainesrobles@googlemail.com" target=3D"_blank">mariainesrobles@googlemai=
l.com</a>&gt;<br>
<span style=3D"font-weight:bold">R=C3=A9pondre =C3=A0=C2=A0: </span>&quot;<=
a href=3D"mailto:roll@ietf.org" target=3D"_blank">roll@ietf.org</a>&quot; &=
lt;<a href=3D"mailto:roll@ietf.org" target=3D"_blank">roll@ietf.org</a>&gt;=
<br>
<span style=3D"font-weight:bold">Date=C2=A0: </span>Thursday 23 June 2016 1=
0:18<br>
<span style=3D"font-weight:bold">=C3=80=C2=A0: </span>&quot;<a href=3D"mail=
to:roll@ietf.org" target=3D"_blank">roll@ietf.org</a>&quot; &lt;<a href=3D"=
mailto:roll@ietf.org" target=3D"_blank">roll@ietf.org</a>&gt;<br>
<span style=3D"font-weight:bold">Cc=C2=A0: </span>peter van der Stok &lt;<a=
 href=3D"mailto:stokcons@xs4all.nl" target=3D"_blank">stokcons@xs4all.nl</a=
>&gt;<br>
<span style=3D"font-weight:bold">Objet=C2=A0: </span>[Roll] Request for Slo=
t - IETF 96<br>
</div><div><div class=3D"h5">
<div><br>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<div dir=3D"ltr">Dear all,
<div><br>
</div>
<div>ROLL is going to have a meeting at IETF 96 ( 1:30 hs )</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>Please let us know if you want to present your work in IETF 96, specif=
ying:</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>- Draft/work to present=C2=A0</div>
<div>- Time requested</div>
<div>- Presenter name.</div>
<div>- To be presented remotely?</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>Thank you very much in advance,</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>Peter and Ines.</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div></div></span>
<pre>______________________________________________________________________=
___________________________________________________

Ce message et ses pieces jointes peuvent contenir des informations confiden=
tielles ou privilegiees et ne doivent donc
pas etre diffuses, exploites ou copies sans autorisation. Si vous avez recu=
 ce message par erreur, veuillez le signaler
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</pre></div>

<br>_______________________________________________<br>
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--001a113ddfbc1f33250535eeb20d--


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Hi Ines, Peter,

since Constrained-Cast has not really been discussed in detail in the
ROLL WG, we'd welcome an opportunity to do this in Berlin.  One
objective would be to become a bit clearer on what the interface to the
rest of the RPL world is (what does ccast need, what can it provide).
Of course, we'd also like to know what we need to do next on the road to
WG adoption.

Ines Robles wrote:
> Dear all,
> 
> ROLL is going to have a meeting at IETF 96 ( 1:30 hs )
> 
> Please let us know if you want to present your work in IETF 96, specifying:
> 
> - Draft/work to present 

https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-bergmann-bier-ccast-01

> - Time requested

20 minutes (10 of which should be discussion)

> - Presenter name.

Olaf Bergmann and Carsten Bormann

> - To be presented remotely?

No, we'll be there.

Grüße, Carsten


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From: Ines  Robles <mariainesrobles@googlemail.com>
Date: Thu, 23 Jun 2016 12:41:54 +0300
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--001a113589ae4f1fc60535eeddef
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Ok, Thank you  Carsten,

Cheers,

Peter and Ines


2016-06-23 12:26 GMT+03:00 Carsten Bormann <cabo@tzi.org>:

> Hi Ines, Peter,
>
> since Constrained-Cast has not really been discussed in detail in the
> ROLL WG, we'd welcome an opportunity to do this in Berlin.  One
> objective would be to become a bit clearer on what the interface to the
> rest of the RPL world is (what does ccast need, what can it provide).
> Of course, we'd also like to know what we need to do next on the road to
> WG adoption.
>
> Ines Robles wrote:
> > Dear all,
> >
> > ROLL is going to have a meeting at IETF 96 ( 1:30 hs )
> >
> > Please let us know if you want to present your work in IETF 96,
> specifying:
> >
> > - Draft/work to present
>
> https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-bergmann-bier-ccast-01
>
> > - Time requested
>
> 20 minutes (10 of which should be discussion)
>
> > - Presenter name.
>
> Olaf Bergmann and Carsten Bormann
>
> > - To be presented remotely?
>
> No, we'll be there.
>
> Gr=C3=BC=C3=9Fe, Carsten
>
> _______________________________________________
> Roll mailing list
> Roll@ietf.org
> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/roll
>

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<div dir=3D"ltr"><div dir=3D"ltr" style=3D"font-size:12.8px">Ok, Thank you =
=C2=A0Carsten,=C2=A0</div><div dir=3D"ltr" style=3D"font-size:12.8px"><br><=
/div><div dir=3D"ltr" style=3D"font-size:12.8px"><div><div><span style=3D"f=
ont-size:12.8px">Cheers,</span><br></div><div><br></div><div>Peter and Ines=
</div></div><div><br></div></div></div><div class=3D"gmail_extra"><br><div =
class=3D"gmail_quote">2016-06-23 12:26 GMT+03:00 Carsten Bormann <span dir=
=3D"ltr">&lt;<a href=3D"mailto:cabo@tzi.org" target=3D"_blank">cabo@tzi.org=
</a>&gt;</span>:<br><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0 0 0=
 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">Hi Ines, Peter,<br>
<br>
since Constrained-Cast has not really been discussed in detail in the<br>
ROLL WG, we&#39;d welcome an opportunity to do this in Berlin.=C2=A0 One<br=
>
objective would be to become a bit clearer on what the interface to the<br>
rest of the RPL world is (what does ccast need, what can it provide).<br>
Of course, we&#39;d also like to know what we need to do next on the road t=
o<br>
WG adoption.<br>
<span class=3D""><br>
Ines Robles wrote:<br>
&gt; Dear all,<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt; ROLL is going to have a meeting at IETF 96 ( 1:30 hs )<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt; Please let us know if you want to present your work in IETF 96, specif=
ying:<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt; - Draft/work to present<br>
<br>
</span><a href=3D"https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-bergmann-bier-ccast-01"=
 rel=3D"noreferrer" target=3D"_blank">https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ber=
gmann-bier-ccast-01</a><br>
<br>
&gt; - Time requested<br>
<br>
20 minutes (10 of which should be discussion)<br>
<br>
&gt; - Presenter name.<br>
<br>
Olaf Bergmann and Carsten Bormann<br>
<span class=3D""><br>
&gt; - To be presented remotely?<br>
<br>
</span>No, we&#39;ll be there.<br>
<br>
Gr=C3=BC=C3=9Fe, Carsten<br>
<div class=3D"HOEnZb"><div class=3D"h5"><br>
_______________________________________________<br>
Roll mailing list<br>
<a href=3D"mailto:Roll@ietf.org">Roll@ietf.org</a><br>
<a href=3D"https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/roll" rel=3D"noreferrer" t=
arget=3D"_blank">https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/roll</a><br>
</div></div></blockquote></div><br></div>

--001a113589ae4f1fc60535eeddef--


From nobody Fri Jun 24 09:04:30 2016
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Dear Ines Robles,

The session(s) that you have requested have been scheduled.
Below is the scheduled session information followed by
the original request. 

roll Session 1 (1:30:00)
    Wednesday, Afternoon Session II 1550-1720
    Room Name: Schoeneberg size: 100
    ---------------------------------------------
    


Request Information:


---------------------------------------------------------
Working Group Name: Routing Over Low power and Lossy networks
Area Name: Routing Area
Session Requester: Ines Robles

Number of Sessions: 1
Length of Session(s):  1.5 Hours
Number of Attendees: 50
Conflicts to Avoid: 
 First Priority: 6lo core 6tisch
 Second Priority: rtgarea ace anima
 Third Priority: t2trg pce manet rtgwg lwig intarea


Special Requests:
  Conflicts to Avoid:	
First Priority:	6lo core 6tisch
Second Priority:	rtgarea ace anima
Third Priority:	t2trg pce manet rtgwg lwig intarea

---------------------------------------------------------


From nobody Mon Jun 27 03:16:21 2016
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Date: Mon, 27 Jun 2016 12:16:08 +0200
From: peter van der Stok <stokcons@xs4all.nl>
To: Roll <roll@ietf.org>
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Hi all,

I have submitted a new draft for MPL YANG model.
Looking forward to your reactions.

Peter

-------- Oorspronkelijke bericht --------
Onderwerp: New Version Notification for 
draft-vanderstok-roll-mpl-yang-01.txt
Datum: 2016-06-27 12:14
Afzender: internet-drafts@ietf.org
Ontvanger: "Peter van der Stok" <consultancy@vanderstok.org>, "Peter Van 
der Stok" <consultancy@vanderstok.org>

A new version of I-D, draft-vanderstok-roll-mpl-yang-01.txt
has been successfully submitted by Peter van der Stok and posted to the
IETF repository.

Name:		draft-vanderstok-roll-mpl-yang
Revision:	01
Title:		A YANG model for Multicast Protocol for Low power and lossy 
Networks (MPL)
Document date:	2016-06-27
Group:		Individual Submission
Pages:		20
URL:            
https://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-vanderstok-roll-mpl-yang-01.txt
Status:         
https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-vanderstok-roll-mpl-yang/
Htmlized:       
https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-vanderstok-roll-mpl-yang-01
Diff:           
https://www.ietf.org/rfcdiff?url2=draft-vanderstok-roll-mpl-yang-01

Abstract:
    This document defines a YANG data model for management of Multicast
    Protocol for Low power and lossy Networks (MPL) implementations.  The
    data model includes configuration data and state data.

Note

    Discussion and suggestions for improvement are requested, and should
    be sent to roll@ietf.org.




Please note that it may take a couple of minutes from the time of 
submission
until the htmlized version and diff are available at tools.ietf.org.

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From nobody Mon Jun 27 03:51:50 2016
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From: "Rahul Arvind Jadhav (Rahul Arvind Jadhav, 2012 Labs)" <rahul.jadhav@huawei.com>
To: "roll@ietf.org" <roll@ietf.org>
Thread-Topic: New Version Notification for draft-jadhav-roll-no-path-dao-ps-01.txt
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Date: Mon, 27 Jun 2016 10:51:27 +0000
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Subject: [Roll] FW: New Version Notification for draft-jadhav-roll-no-path-dao-ps-01.txt
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From: "Pascal Thubert (pthubert)" <pthubert@cisco.com>
To: Routing Over Low power and Lossy networks <roll@ietf.org>
Thread-Topic: [Roll] Request for Comments for ROLL Charter
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Subject: Re: [Roll] Request for Comments for ROLL Charter
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From: "Turner, Randy" <Randy.Turner@landisgyr.com>
To: Routing Over Low power and Lossy networks <roll@ietf.org>
Thread-Topic: [Roll] Request for Comments for ROLL Charter
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Subject: Re: [Roll] Request for Comments for ROLL Charter
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From: "Pascal Thubert (pthubert)" <pthubert@cisco.com>
To: Routing Over Low power and Lossy networks <roll@ietf.org>
Thread-Topic: [Roll] Request for Comments for ROLL Charter
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To: Routing Over Low power and Lossy networks <roll@ietf.org>
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Archived-At: <https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/roll/y454V_zJrz8uJzIb8xslnfh2ZtQ>
Subject: Re: [Roll] Request for Comments for ROLL Charter
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Right:)

Just interested in a placeholder for other multicast ideas...

R.

On Jun 27, 2016, at 12:17 PM, Pascal Thubert (pthubert) <pthubert@cisco.com=
<mailto:pthubert@cisco.com>> wrote:

Hello Randy:

I=92d like to enable unicast and BIER-TE as well : )

Cheers,

Pascal

From: Roll [mailto:roll-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of Turner, Randy
Sent: lundi 27 juin 2016 17:13
To: Routing Over Low power and Lossy networks <roll@ietf.org<mailto:roll@ie=
tf.org>>
Subject: Re: [Roll] Request for Comments for ROLL Charter

Hi Pascal,

Could we just say that =93the group will work on enhancements/optimizations=
 for multicast on an LLN=94, rather than spell out explicit items ? We=92ve=
 done this type of aggregation already for =93Methods to improve the curren=
t RPL behavior=94.

Or, if others feel we need to say absolutely what we plan on doing, then ma=
ybe these could be bulleted, with the last bullet indicating =93and other m=
ethods of enhancing or optimizing multicast on an LLN=94

Randy

From: Roll [mailto:roll-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of Pascal Thubert (pthu=
bert)
Sent: Monday, June 27, 2016 10:53 AM
To: Routing Over Low power and Lossy networks
Cc: peter van der Stok
Subject: Re: [Roll] Request for Comments for ROLL Charter

Hello Ines and Peter:

I=92m happy with this proposed charter. On this particular item, though,
=93
Additional protocol to  reduce paths for RPL in non-storing mode
=93

I=92ll note that methods that rely on BIER or on Bloom filters to make rout=
ing more efficient were already discussed and should be accommodated. Propo=
sal:
=93
Additional protocol elements to reduce source route headers in non-storing =
mode and/or memory consumption in storing mode such as route projection and=
 BIER.
=93


///////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////=
///////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////=
//

Charter for Working Group

Low power and Lossy Networks (LLNs) are made up of many embedded devices wi=
th limited power, memory, and processing resources. They are interconnected=
 by a variety of links, such as IEEE 802.15.4, Bluetooth, Low Power WiFi, w=
ired or other low power PLC (Powerline Communication) links. LLNs are trans=
itioning to an end-to-end IP-based solution to avoid the problem of non-int=
eroperable networks interconnected by protocol translation gateways and pro=
xies.

Generally speaking, LLNs are characterized as follows, but not limited to:

-LLNs operate with a hard, very small bound on state.

-In most cases, LLN optimize for saving energy by using small packet header=
s and few reduce amount of control packets.

-Typical traffic patterns are not simply unicast flows (e.g. in some cases =
most if not all traffic can be point to multipoint).

- In most cases, LLNs will be employed over link layers with restricted fra=
me-sizes and low bit rates, thus a routing protocol for LLNs should be spec=
ifically adapted for such link layers.

- LLN routing protocols have to be very careful when trading off efficiency=
 for generality; since LLN nodes do not have resources to waste.


These specific properties cause LLNs to have specific routing requirements.

Existing routing protocols such as OSPF, IS-IS, AODV, and OLSR have been ev=
aluated by the working group (draft-levis-roll-overview-protocols-00) and h=
ave in their current form been found to not satisfy all of these specific r=
outing requirements =93Routing Requirements for Urban Low-Power and Lossy N=
etworks=94 RFC 5548, =93Industrial Routing Requirements in Low-Power and Lo=
ssy Networks=94 RFC 5673, =93Home Automation Routing Requirements in Low-Po=
wer and Lossy Networks=94 RFC 5826, Building Automation Routing Requirement=
s in Low-Power and Lossy Networks RFC 5867.

The Working Group is focused on routing issues for LLN and maintaining the =
protocols developed by the working group.

There is a wide scope of application areas for LLNs, including industrial m=
onitoring, building automation (HVAC, lighting, access control, fire), conn=
ected homes, health care, environmental monitoring, urban sensor networks (=
e.g. Smart Grid), asset tracking. The Working Group focuses on routing solu=
tions for a subset of these: connected home, building and urban sensor netw=
orks for which routing requirements have been specified. These application-=
specific routing requirement documents were used for protocol design.
The Working Group focuses on IPv6 routing architectural framework for these=
 application scenarios. The Framework will take into consideration various =
aspects including high reliability in the presence of time varying loss cha=
racteristics and connectivity while permitting low-power operation with ver=
y modest memory and CPU pressure in networks potentially comprising a very =
large number (several thousands) of nodes.

The Working Group will document how data packets are routed and encapsulate=
d when they cross the LLN, and when they enter and exit the LLN: the approp=
riate use of RH3 (RFC6553), RPI (RFC6554) and IPv6-in-IPv6 encapsulation in=
cluding how routing loops are detected. In consultation with the 6lo WG, th=
e Working Group will design a method to compress these routing headers into=
 a single block. The WGLC on this work will be shared with 6lo. The Working=
 group will align with the 6man WG when needed.
ROLL is responsible for maintenance of the protocols that is has developed,=
 including RPL and MPL. AD approval is required for each new work item that=
 is proposed.

Work Items are:

- Guidance in using RFC6553, RFC6554, and IPv6-in-IPv6 encapsulation.

- Compression of  RFC6553, RFC6554, and IP headers in the 6LoWPAN adaptatio=
n layer context

- Additional protocol to  reduce paths for RPL in non-storing mode

- Automatic selection of MPL forwarders to reduce message replication

- Data models for RPL and MPL management

- Alternative Multicast algorithm based on Bier forwarding.

- Solution  of  the  problems associated with the use of No- Path DAO messa=
ging in RPL.

- Methods to improve the current RPL behaviour, e.g. DIS modifications in R=
PL.


Milestones                                        DATE

Recharter WG or close                   September 2017

Initial submission of draft about YANG RPL model to IESG   March 2017

Initial submission of draft about MPL selection to IESG    January 2017

Initial submission of draft about Bier Multicast to IESG      November 2016

Submit draft about YANG MPL model to IESG     October 2016

Initial Submission of the draft about when to use RFC6553, RFC6554, and IPv=
6-in-IPv6 encapsulation     August 2016
Draft-ietf-roll-useofrplinfo to the IESG.

Initial submission of the draft about how to compress RFC6553, RFC6554, and=
 IP headers in the 6LoWPAN adaptation layer context.  to the IESG.    May 2=
016
draft-ietf-roll-routing-dispatch

Initial Submission of the No-Path DAO Problem Statement to the IESG     Nov=
ember 2016



///////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////=
///////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////=
///////////////////////////////
_______________________________________________
Roll mailing list
Roll@ietf.org<mailto:Roll@ietf.org>
https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/roll

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252">
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<body dir=3D"auto">
<div>Right:)</div>
<div id=3D"AppleMailSignature"><br>
</div>
<div id=3D"AppleMailSignature">Just interested in a placeholder for other m=
ulticast ideas...<br>
<br>
R.</div>
<div><br>
On Jun 27, 2016, at 12:17 PM, Pascal Thubert (pthubert) &lt;<a href=3D"mail=
to:pthubert@cisco.com">pthubert@cisco.com</a>&gt; wrote:<br>
<br>
</div>
<blockquote type=3D"cite">
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<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,sans-serif;color:#1F497D">Hello Randy:<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,sans-serif;color:#1F497D"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,sans-serif;color:#1F497D">I=92d like to enable unicast and BIER=
-TE as well : )<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,sans-serif;color:#1F497D"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"FR" style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-fam=
ily:&quot;Calibri&quot;,sans-serif;color:#1F497D">Cheers,<o:p></o:p></span>=
</p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"FR" style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-fam=
ily:&quot;Calibri&quot;,sans-serif;color:#1F497D"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span><=
/p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"FR" style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-fam=
ily:&quot;Calibri&quot;,sans-serif;color:#1F497D">Pascal<o:p></o:p></span><=
/p>
</div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,sans-serif;color:#1F497D"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>
<div style=3D"border:none;border-left:solid blue 1.5pt;padding:0cm 0cm 0cm =
4.0pt">
<div>
<div style=3D"border:none;border-top:solid #E1E1E1 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0cm =
0cm 0cm">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><b><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot=
;Calibri&quot;,sans-serif">From:</span></b><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;=
font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,sans-serif"> Roll [<a href=3D"mailto:roll-b=
ounces@ietf.org">mailto:roll-bounces@ietf.org</a>]
<b>On Behalf Of </b>Turner, Randy<br>
<b>Sent:</b> lundi 27 juin 2016 17:13<br>
<b>To:</b> Routing Over Low power and Lossy networks &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:=
roll@ietf.org">roll@ietf.org</a>&gt;<br>
<b>Subject:</b> Re: [Roll] Request for Comments for ROLL Charter<o:p></o:p>=
</span></p>
</div>
</div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,sans-serif;color:#1F497D">Hi Pascal,<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,sans-serif;color:#1F497D"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,sans-serif;color:#1F497D">Could we just say that =93the group w=
ill work on enhancements/optimizations for multicast on an LLN=94, rather t=
han spell out explicit items ? We=92ve done this type
 of aggregation already for =93Methods to improve the current RPL behavior=
=94.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,sans-serif;color:#1F497D"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,sans-serif;color:#1F497D">Or, if others feel we need to say abs=
olutely what we plan on doing, then maybe these could be bulleted, with the=
 last bullet indicating =93and other methods of
 enhancing or optimizing multicast on an LLN=94<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,sans-serif;color:#1F497D"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,sans-serif;color:#1F497D">Randy<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,sans-serif;color:#1F497D"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>
<div>
<div style=3D"border:none;border-top:solid #B5C4DF 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0cm =
0cm 0cm">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><b><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot=
;Tahoma&quot;,sans-serif">From:</span></b><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;f=
ont-family:&quot;Tahoma&quot;,sans-serif"> Roll [<a href=3D"mailto:roll-bou=
nces@ietf.org">mailto:roll-bounces@ietf.org</a>]
<b>On Behalf Of </b>Pascal Thubert (pthubert)<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Monday, June 27, 2016 10:53 AM<br>
<b>To:</b> Routing Over Low power and Lossy networks<br>
<b>Cc:</b> peter van der Stok<br>
<b>Subject:</b> Re: [Roll] Request for Comments for ROLL Charter<o:p></o:p>=
</span></p>
</div>
</div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,sans-serif;color:#1F497D">Hello Ines and Peter:<o:p></o:p></spa=
n></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,sans-serif;color:#1F497D"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,sans-serif;color:#1F497D">I=92m happy with this proposed charte=
r. On this particular item, though,
<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,sans-serif;color:#1F497D">=93<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:9.5pt">Additional protocol =
to &nbsp;reduce paths for RPL in non-storing mode</span><span style=3D"font=
-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,sans-serif;color:#1F497D"><o:p=
></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,sans-serif;color:#1F497D">=93<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,sans-serif;color:#1F497D"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,sans-serif;color:#1F497D">I=92ll note that methods that rely on=
 BIER or on Bloom filters to make routing more efficient were already discu=
ssed and should be accommodated. Proposal:<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,sans-serif;color:#1F497D">=93<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:9.5pt">Additional protocol =
elements to reduce source route headers in non-storing mode and/or memory c=
onsumption in storing mode such as route projection and BIER.</span><span s=
tyle=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,sans-serif;color:#=
1F497D"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,sans-serif;color:#1F497D">=93<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,sans-serif;color:#1F497D"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:9.5pt"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></s=
pan></p>
<div style=3D"border:none;border-left:solid blue 1.5pt;padding:0cm 0cm 0cm =
4.0pt">
<div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:9.5pt">////////////////////=
///////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////=
/////////////////////////////////////////////////////////<o:p></o:p></span>=
</p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:9.5pt"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></s=
pan></p>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:9.5pt">Charter for Working =
Group<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:9.5pt"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></s=
pan></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:9.5pt">Low power and Lossy =
Networks (LLNs) are made up of many embedded devices with limited power, me=
mory, and processing resources. They are interconnected by a variety of lin=
ks, such as IEEE 802.15.4, Bluetooth,
 Low Power WiFi, wired or other low power PLC (Powerline Communication) lin=
ks. LLNs are transitioning to an end-to-end IP-based solution to avoid the =
problem of non-interoperable networks interconnected by protocol translatio=
n gateways and proxies.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:9.5pt"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></s=
pan></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:9.5pt">Generally speaking, =
LLNs are characterized as follows, but not limited to:<o:p></o:p></span></p=
>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:9.5pt"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></s=
pan></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:9.5pt">-LLNs operate with a=
 hard, very small bound on state.&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:9.5pt"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></s=
pan></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:9.5pt">-In most cases, LLN =
optimize for saving energy by using small packet headers and few reduce amo=
unt of control packets.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:9.5pt">&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></s=
pan></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:9.5pt">-Typical traffic pat=
terns are not simply unicast flows (e.g. in some cases most if not all traf=
fic can be point to multipoint).<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:9.5pt"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></s=
pan></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:9.5pt">- In most cases, LLN=
s will be employed over link layers with restricted frame-sizes and low bit=
 rates, thus a routing protocol for LLNs should be specifically adapted for=
 such link layers.&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:9.5pt"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></s=
pan></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:9.5pt">- LLN routing protoc=
ols have to be very careful when trading off efficiency for generality; sin=
ce LLN nodes do not have resources to waste.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:9.5pt"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></s=
pan></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:9.5pt"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></s=
pan></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:9.5pt">These specific prope=
rties cause LLNs to have specific routing requirements.<o:p></o:p></span></=
p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:9.5pt"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></s=
pan></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:9.5pt">Existing routing pro=
tocols such as OSPF, IS-IS, AODV, and OLSR have been evaluated by the worki=
ng group (draft-levis-roll-overview-protocols-00) and have in their current=
 form been found to not satisfy all
 of these specific routing requirements =93Routing Requirements for Urban L=
ow-Power and Lossy Networks=94 RFC 5548, =93Industrial Routing Requirements=
 in Low-Power and Lossy Networks=94 RFC 5673, =93Home Automation Routing Re=
quirements in Low-Power and Lossy Networks=94
 RFC 5826, Building Automation Routing Requirements in Low-Power and Lossy =
Networks RFC 5867.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:9.5pt"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></s=
pan></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:9.5pt">The Working Group is=
 focused on routing issues for LLN and maintaining the protocols developed =
by the working group.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:9.5pt"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></s=
pan></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:9.5pt">There is a wide scop=
e of application areas for LLNs, including industrial monitoring, building =
automation (HVAC, lighting, access control, fire), connected homes, health =
care, environmental monitoring, urban
 sensor networks (e.g. Smart Grid), asset tracking. The Working Group focus=
es on routing solutions for a subset of these: connected home, building and=
 urban sensor networks for which routing requirements have been specified. =
These application-specific routing
 requirement documents were used for protocol design.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:9.5pt">The Working Group fo=
cuses on IPv6 routing architectural framework for these application scenari=
os. The Framework will take into consideration various aspects including hi=
gh reliability in the presence of time
 varying loss characteristics and connectivity while permitting low-power o=
peration with very modest memory and CPU pressure in networks potentially c=
omprising a very large number (several thousands) of nodes.<o:p></o:p></spa=
n></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:9.5pt"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></s=
pan></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:9.5pt">The Working Group wi=
ll document how data packets are routed and encapsulated when they cross th=
e LLN, and when they enter and exit the LLN: the appropriate use of RH3 (RF=
C6553), RPI (RFC6554) and IPv6-in-IPv6
 encapsulation including how routing loops are detected. In consultation wi=
th the 6lo WG, the Working Group will design a method to compress these rou=
ting headers into a single block. The WGLC on this work will be shared with=
 6lo. The Working group will align
 with the 6man WG when needed.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:9.5pt">ROLL is responsible =
for maintenance of the protocols that is has developed, including RPL and M=
PL. AD approval is required for each new work item that is proposed.<o:p></=
o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:9.5pt"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></s=
pan></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:9.5pt">Work Items are:<o:p>=
</o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:9.5pt"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></s=
pan></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:9.5pt">- Guidance in using =
RFC6553, RFC6554, and IPv6-in-IPv6 encapsulation.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:9.5pt"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></s=
pan></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:9.5pt">- Compression of &nb=
sp;RFC6553, RFC6554, and IP headers in the 6LoWPAN adaptation layer context=
<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:9.5pt"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></s=
pan></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:9.5pt">- Additional protoco=
l to &nbsp;reduce paths for RPL in non-storing mode<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:9.5pt"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></s=
pan></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:9.5pt">- Automatic selectio=
n of MPL forwarders to reduce message replication<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:9.5pt"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></s=
pan></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:9.5pt">- Data models for RP=
L and MPL management<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:9.5pt"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></s=
pan></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:9.5pt">- Alternative Multic=
ast algorithm based on Bier forwarding.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:9.5pt"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></s=
pan></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:9.5pt">- Solution &nbsp;of =
&nbsp;the &nbsp;problems associated with the use of No- Path DAO messaging =
in RPL.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:9.5pt"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></s=
pan></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:9.5pt">- Methods to improve=
 the current RPL behaviour, e.g. DIS modifications in RPL.<o:p></o:p></span=
></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:9.5pt"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></s=
pan></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:9.5pt"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></s=
pan></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:9.5pt">Milestones &nbsp; &n=
bsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; =
&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;DATE<o:p></o:p></spa=
n></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:9.5pt"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></s=
pan></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:9.5pt">Recharter WG or clos=
e &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; September =
2017<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:9.5pt"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></s=
pan></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:9.5pt">Initial submission o=
f draft about YANG RPL model to IESG &nbsp; March 2017<o:p></o:p></span></p=
>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:9.5pt"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></s=
pan></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:9.5pt">Initial submission o=
f draft about MPL selection to IESG &nbsp; &nbsp;January 2017<o:p></o:p></s=
pan></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:9.5pt"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></s=
pan></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:9.5pt">Initial submission o=
f draft about Bier Multicast to IESG &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;November 2016<o:p>=
</o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:9.5pt"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></s=
pan></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:9.5pt">Submit draft about Y=
ANG MPL model to IESG &nbsp; &nbsp; October 2016<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:9.5pt"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></s=
pan></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:9.5pt">Initial Submission o=
f the draft about when to use RFC6553, RFC6554, and IPv6-in-IPv6 encapsulat=
ion &nbsp; &nbsp; August 2016<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:9.5pt">Draft-ietf-roll-useo=
frplinfo to the IESG.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:9.5pt"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></s=
pan></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:9.5pt">Initial submission o=
f the draft about how to compress RFC6553, RFC6554, and IP headers in the 6=
LoWPAN adaptation layer context. &nbsp;to the IESG. &nbsp; &nbsp;May 2016<o=
:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:9.5pt">draft-ietf-roll-rout=
ing-dispatch &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:9.5pt"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></s=
pan></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:9.5pt">Initial Submission o=
f the No-Path DAO Problem Statement to the IESG &nbsp; &nbsp; November 2016=
<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:9.5pt"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></s=
pan></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:9.5pt"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></s=
pan></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:9.5pt"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></s=
pan></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:9.5pt">////////////////////=
///////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////=
///////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////=
///////////<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</blockquote>
<blockquote type=3D"cite">
<div><span>_______________________________________________</span><br>
<span>Roll mailing list</span><br>
<span><a href=3D"mailto:Roll@ietf.org">Roll@ietf.org</a></span><br>
<span><a href=3D"https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/roll">https://www.ie=
tf.org/mailman/listinfo/roll</a></span><br>
</div>
</blockquote>
</body>
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--=-=-=
Content-Type: text/plain


Pascal Thubert (pthubert) <pthubert@cisco.com> wrote:
    > Additional protocol elements to reduce source route headers in
    > non-storing mode and/or memory consumption in storing mode such as
    > route projection and BIER.

It sounds too prescriptive, as if we have limited ourselves in the charter
to those two methods.  I don't think that this is your intention.

If you wrote:

    > Additional protocol elements to reduce source route headers in
    > non-storing mode and/or memory consumption in storing mode.
    > These elements may leverage mechanisms such as route projection and BIER.

would be clearer that these are not the only two admissible methods.
I'm not sure that we need to say what the methods are *at all*

    > There is a wide scope of application areas for LLNs, including
    > industrial monitoring, building automation (HVAC, lighting, access
    > control, fire), connected homes, health care, environmental monitoring,
    > urban sensor networks (e.g. Smart Grid), asset tracking.  The Working
    > Group focuses on routing solutions for a subset of these: connected
    > home, building and urban sensor networks for which routing requirements
    > have been specified. These application-specific routing requirement
    > documents were used for protocol design.

    > The Working Group focuses on IPv6 routing architectural framework for
    > these application scenarios. The Framework will take into consideration
    > various aspects including high reliability in the presence of time
    > varying loss characteristics and connectivity while permitting
    > low-power operation with very modest memory and CPU pressure in
    > networks potentially comprising a very large number (several thousands)
    > of nodes.

I'd like these two paragraphs removed as being ancient motherhood text.

--
Michael Richardson <mcr+IETF@sandelman.ca>, Sandelman Software Works
 -= IPv6 IoT consulting =-




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From: "Pascal Thubert (pthubert)" <pthubert@cisco.com>
To: "6lo@ietf.org" <6lo@ietf.org>
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From: "Pascal Thubert (pthubert)" <pthubert@cisco.com>
To: Routing Over Low power and Lossy networks <roll@ietf.org>
Thread-Topic: [Roll] Request for Comments for ROLL Charter
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Pascal Thubert (pthubert) <pthubert@cisco.com> wrote:
>    > Additional protocol elements to reduce source route headers in
>    > non-storing mode and/or memory consumption in storing mode such as
>    > route projection and BIER.

> It sounds too prescriptive, as if we have limited ourselves in the charte=
r to those two methods.  I don't think that this is your intention.

Agreed, Michael. We can bar from " such as ..." on.=20

Cheers,

Pascal


> -----Original Message-----
> From: Roll [mailto:roll-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of Michael Richardson
> Sent: mardi 28 juin 2016 14:47
> To: Routing Over Low power and Lossy networks <roll@ietf.org>
> Cc: peter van der Stok <stokcons@xs4all.nl>
> Subject: Re: [Roll] Request for Comments for ROLL Charter
>=20
>=20
> Pascal Thubert (pthubert) <pthubert@cisco.com> wrote:
>     > Additional protocol elements to reduce source route headers in
>     > non-storing mode and/or memory consumption in storing mode such as
>     > route projection and BIER.
>=20
> It sounds too prescriptive, as if we have limited ourselves in the charte=
r to those
> two methods.  I don't think that this is your intention.
>=20
> If you wrote:
>=20
>     > Additional protocol elements to reduce source route headers in
>     > non-storing mode and/or memory consumption in storing mode.
>     > These elements may leverage mechanisms such as route projection and
> BIER.
>=20
> would be clearer that these are not the only two admissible methods.
> I'm not sure that we need to say what the methods are *at all*
>=20
>     > There is a wide scope of application areas for LLNs, including
>     > industrial monitoring, building automation (HVAC, lighting, access
>     > control, fire), connected homes, health care, environmental monitor=
ing,
>     > urban sensor networks (e.g. Smart Grid), asset tracking.  The Worki=
ng
>     > Group focuses on routing solutions for a subset of these: connected
>     > home, building and urban sensor networks for which routing requirem=
ents
>     > have been specified. These application-specific routing requirement
>     > documents were used for protocol design.
>=20
>     > The Working Group focuses on IPv6 routing architectural framework f=
or
>     > these application scenarios. The Framework will take into considera=
tion
>     > various aspects including high reliability in the presence of time
>     > varying loss characteristics and connectivity while permitting
>     > low-power operation with very modest memory and CPU pressure in
>     > networks potentially comprising a very large number (several thousa=
nds)
>     > of nodes.
>=20
> I'd like these two paragraphs removed as being ancient motherhood text.
>=20
> --
> Michael Richardson <mcr+IETF@sandelman.ca>, Sandelman Software Works  -=
=3D
> IPv6 IoT consulting =3D-
>=20
>=20


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From: "Pascal Thubert (pthubert)" <pthubert@cisco.com>
To: Routing Over Low power and Lossy networks <roll@ietf.org>
Thread-Topic: [Roll] Request for Comments for ROLL Charter
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Subject: Re: [Roll] Request for Comments for ROLL Charter
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+1

Cheers,

Pascal

From: Roll [mailto:roll-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of Turner, Randy
Sent: lundi 27 juin 2016 18:47
To: Routing Over Low power and Lossy networks <roll@ietf.org>
Subject: Re: [Roll] Request for Comments for ROLL Charter

Right:)

Just interested in a placeholder for other multicast ideas...

R.

On Jun 27, 2016, at 12:17 PM, Pascal Thubert (pthubert) <pthubert@cisco.com=
<mailto:pthubert@cisco.com>> wrote:
Hello Randy:

I'd like to enable unicast and BIER-TE as well : )

Cheers,

Pascal

From: Roll [mailto:roll-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of Turner, Randy
Sent: lundi 27 juin 2016 17:13
To: Routing Over Low power and Lossy networks <roll@ietf.org<mailto:roll@ie=
tf.org>>
Subject: Re: [Roll] Request for Comments for ROLL Charter

Hi Pascal,

Could we just say that "the group will work on enhancements/optimizations f=
or multicast on an LLN", rather than spell out explicit items ? We've done =
this type of aggregation already for "Methods to improve the current RPL be=
havior".

Or, if others feel we need to say absolutely what we plan on doing, then ma=
ybe these could be bulleted, with the last bullet indicating "and other met=
hods of enhancing or optimizing multicast on an LLN"

Randy

From: Roll [mailto:roll-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of Pascal Thubert (pthu=
bert)
Sent: Monday, June 27, 2016 10:53 AM
To: Routing Over Low power and Lossy networks
Cc: peter van der Stok
Subject: Re: [Roll] Request for Comments for ROLL Charter

Hello Ines and Peter:

I'm happy with this proposed charter. On this particular item, though,
"
Additional protocol to  reduce paths for RPL in non-storing mode
"

I'll note that methods that rely on BIER or on Bloom filters to make routin=
g more efficient were already discussed and should be accommodated. Proposa=
l:
"
Additional protocol elements to reduce source route headers in non-storing =
mode and/or memory consumption in storing mode such as route projection and=
 BIER.
"


///////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////=
///////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////=
//

Charter for Working Group

Low power and Lossy Networks (LLNs) are made up of many embedded devices wi=
th limited power, memory, and processing resources. They are interconnected=
 by a variety of links, such as IEEE 802.15.4, Bluetooth, Low Power WiFi, w=
ired or other low power PLC (Powerline Communication) links. LLNs are trans=
itioning to an end-to-end IP-based solution to avoid the problem of non-int=
eroperable networks interconnected by protocol translation gateways and pro=
xies.

Generally speaking, LLNs are characterized as follows, but not limited to:

-LLNs operate with a hard, very small bound on state.

-In most cases, LLN optimize for saving energy by using small packet header=
s and few reduce amount of control packets.

-Typical traffic patterns are not simply unicast flows (e.g. in some cases =
most if not all traffic can be point to multipoint).

- In most cases, LLNs will be employed over link layers with restricted fra=
me-sizes and low bit rates, thus a routing protocol for LLNs should be spec=
ifically adapted for such link layers.

- LLN routing protocols have to be very careful when trading off efficiency=
 for generality; since LLN nodes do not have resources to waste.


These specific properties cause LLNs to have specific routing requirements.

Existing routing protocols such as OSPF, IS-IS, AODV, and OLSR have been ev=
aluated by the working group (draft-levis-roll-overview-protocols-00) and h=
ave in their current form been found to not satisfy all of these specific r=
outing requirements "Routing Requirements for Urban Low-Power and Lossy Net=
works" RFC 5548, "Industrial Routing Requirements in Low-Power and Lossy Ne=
tworks" RFC 5673, "Home Automation Routing Requirements in Low-Power and Lo=
ssy Networks" RFC 5826, Building Automation Routing Requirements in Low-Pow=
er and Lossy Networks RFC 5867.

The Working Group is focused on routing issues for LLN and maintaining the =
protocols developed by the working group.

There is a wide scope of application areas for LLNs, including industrial m=
onitoring, building automation (HVAC, lighting, access control, fire), conn=
ected homes, health care, environmental monitoring, urban sensor networks (=
e.g. Smart Grid), asset tracking. The Working Group focuses on routing solu=
tions for a subset of these: connected home, building and urban sensor netw=
orks for which routing requirements have been specified. These application-=
specific routing requirement documents were used for protocol design.
The Working Group focuses on IPv6 routing architectural framework for these=
 application scenarios. The Framework will take into consideration various =
aspects including high reliability in the presence of time varying loss cha=
racteristics and connectivity while permitting low-power operation with ver=
y modest memory and CPU pressure in networks potentially comprising a very =
large number (several thousands) of nodes.

The Working Group will document how data packets are routed and encapsulate=
d when they cross the LLN, and when they enter and exit the LLN: the approp=
riate use of RH3 (RFC6553), RPI (RFC6554) and IPv6-in-IPv6 encapsulation in=
cluding how routing loops are detected. In consultation with the 6lo WG, th=
e Working Group will design a method to compress these routing headers into=
 a single block. The WGLC on this work will be shared with 6lo. The Working=
 group will align with the 6man WG when needed.
ROLL is responsible for maintenance of the protocols that is has developed,=
 including RPL and MPL. AD approval is required for each new work item that=
 is proposed.

Work Items are:

- Guidance in using RFC6553, RFC6554, and IPv6-in-IPv6 encapsulation.

- Compression of  RFC6553, RFC6554, and IP headers in the 6LoWPAN adaptatio=
n layer context

- Additional protocol to  reduce paths for RPL in non-storing mode

- Automatic selection of MPL forwarders to reduce message replication

- Data models for RPL and MPL management

- Alternative Multicast algorithm based on Bier forwarding.

- Solution  of  the  problems associated with the use of No- Path DAO messa=
ging in RPL.

- Methods to improve the current RPL behaviour, e.g. DIS modifications in R=
PL.


Milestones                                        DATE

Recharter WG or close                   September 2017

Initial submission of draft about YANG RPL model to IESG   March 2017

Initial submission of draft about MPL selection to IESG    January 2017

Initial submission of draft about Bier Multicast to IESG      November 2016

Submit draft about YANG MPL model to IESG     October 2016

Initial Submission of the draft about when to use RFC6553, RFC6554, and IPv=
6-in-IPv6 encapsulation     August 2016
Draft-ietf-roll-useofrplinfo to the IESG.

Initial submission of the draft about how to compress RFC6553, RFC6554, and=
 IP headers in the 6LoWPAN adaptation layer context.  to the IESG.    May 2=
016
draft-ietf-roll-routing-dispatch

Initial Submission of the No-Path DAO Problem Statement to the IESG     Nov=
ember 2016



///////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////=
///////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////=
///////////////////////////////
_______________________________________________
Roll mailing list
Roll@ietf.org<mailto:Roll@ietf.org>
https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/roll

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<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,sans-serif;color:#1F497D">&#43;1
<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,sans-serif;color:#1F497D"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"FR" style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-fam=
ily:&quot;Calibri&quot;,sans-serif;color:#1F497D">Cheers,<o:p></o:p></span>=
</p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"FR" style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-fam=
ily:&quot;Calibri&quot;,sans-serif;color:#1F497D"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span><=
/p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"FR" style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-fam=
ily:&quot;Calibri&quot;,sans-serif;color:#1F497D">Pascal<o:p></o:p></span><=
/p>
</div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,sans-serif;color:#1F497D"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>
<div style=3D"border:none;border-left:solid blue 1.5pt;padding:0cm 0cm 0cm =
4.0pt">
<div>
<div style=3D"border:none;border-top:solid #E1E1E1 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0cm =
0cm 0cm">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><b><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot=
;Calibri&quot;,sans-serif">From:</span></b><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;=
font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,sans-serif"> Roll [mailto:roll-bounces@ietf=
.org]
<b>On Behalf Of </b>Turner, Randy<br>
<b>Sent:</b> lundi 27 juin 2016 18:47<br>
<b>To:</b> Routing Over Low power and Lossy networks &lt;roll@ietf.org&gt;<=
br>
<b>Subject:</b> Re: [Roll] Request for Comments for ROLL Charter<o:p></o:p>=
</span></p>
</div>
</div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">Right:)<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div id=3D"AppleMailSignature">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
</div>
<div id=3D"AppleMailSignature">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">Just interested in a placeholder for other multicast=
 ideas...<br>
<br>
R.<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-bottom:12.0pt"><br>
On Jun 27, 2016, at 12:17 PM, Pascal Thubert (pthubert) &lt;<a href=3D"mail=
to:pthubert@cisco.com">pthubert@cisco.com</a>&gt; wrote:<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<blockquote style=3D"margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,sans-serif;color:#1F497D">Hello Randy:</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,sans-serif;color:#1F497D">&nbsp;</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,sans-serif;color:#1F497D">I&#8217;d like to enable unicast and =
BIER-TE as well : )</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,sans-serif;color:#1F497D">&nbsp;</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"FR" style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-fam=
ily:&quot;Calibri&quot;,sans-serif;color:#1F497D">Cheers,</span><o:p></o:p>=
</p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"FR" style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-fam=
ily:&quot;Calibri&quot;,sans-serif;color:#1F497D">&nbsp;</span><o:p></o:p><=
/p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"FR" style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-fam=
ily:&quot;Calibri&quot;,sans-serif;color:#1F497D">Pascal</span><o:p></o:p><=
/p>
</div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,sans-serif;color:#1F497D">&nbsp;</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<div style=3D"border:none;border-left:solid blue 1.5pt;padding:0cm 0cm 0cm =
4.0pt">
<div>
<div style=3D"border:none;border-top:solid #E1E1E1 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0cm =
0cm 0cm">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><b><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot=
;Calibri&quot;,sans-serif">From:</span></b><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;=
font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,sans-serif"> Roll [<a href=3D"mailto:roll-b=
ounces@ietf.org">mailto:roll-bounces@ietf.org</a>]
<b>On Behalf Of </b>Turner, Randy<br>
<b>Sent:</b> lundi 27 juin 2016 17:13<br>
<b>To:</b> Routing Over Low power and Lossy networks &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:=
roll@ietf.org">roll@ietf.org</a>&gt;<br>
<b>Subject:</b> Re: [Roll] Request for Comments for ROLL Charter</span><o:p=
></o:p></p>
</div>
</div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,sans-serif;color:#1F497D">Hi Pascal,</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,sans-serif;color:#1F497D">&nbsp;</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,sans-serif;color:#1F497D">Could we just say that &#8220;the gro=
up will work on enhancements/optimizations for multicast on an LLN&#8221;, =
rather than spell out explicit items ? We&#8217;ve done this type
 of aggregation already for &#8220;Methods to improve the current RPL behav=
ior&#8221;.</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,sans-serif;color:#1F497D">&nbsp;</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,sans-serif;color:#1F497D">Or, if others feel we need to say abs=
olutely what we plan on doing, then maybe these could be bulleted, with the=
 last bullet indicating &#8220;and other methods of
 enhancing or optimizing multicast on an LLN&#8221;</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,sans-serif;color:#1F497D">&nbsp;</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,sans-serif;color:#1F497D">Randy</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,sans-serif;color:#1F497D">&nbsp;</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<div>
<div style=3D"border:none;border-top:solid #B5C4DF 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0cm =
0cm 0cm">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><b><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot=
;Tahoma&quot;,sans-serif">From:</span></b><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;f=
ont-family:&quot;Tahoma&quot;,sans-serif"> Roll [<a href=3D"mailto:roll-bou=
nces@ietf.org">mailto:roll-bounces@ietf.org</a>]
<b>On Behalf Of </b>Pascal Thubert (pthubert)<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Monday, June 27, 2016 10:53 AM<br>
<b>To:</b> Routing Over Low power and Lossy networks<br>
<b>Cc:</b> peter van der Stok<br>
<b>Subject:</b> Re: [Roll] Request for Comments for ROLL Charter</span><o:p=
></o:p></p>
</div>
</div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,sans-serif;color:#1F497D">Hello Ines and Peter:</span><o:p></o:=
p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,sans-serif;color:#1F497D">&nbsp;</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,sans-serif;color:#1F497D">I&#8217;m happy with this proposed ch=
arter. On this particular item, though,
</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,sans-serif;color:#1F497D">&#8220;</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:9.5pt">Additional protocol =
to &nbsp;reduce paths for RPL in non-storing mode</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,sans-serif;color:#1F497D">&#8220;</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,sans-serif;color:#1F497D">&nbsp;</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,sans-serif;color:#1F497D">I&#8217;ll note that methods that rel=
y on BIER or on Bloom filters to make routing more efficient were already d=
iscussed and should be accommodated. Proposal:</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,sans-serif;color:#1F497D">&#8220;</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:9.5pt">Additional protocol =
elements to reduce source route headers in non-storing mode and/or memory c=
onsumption in storing mode such as route projection and BIER.</span><o:p></=
o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,sans-serif;color:#1F497D">&#8220;</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,sans-serif;color:#1F497D">&nbsp;</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:9.5pt">&nbsp;</span><o:p></=
o:p></p>
<div style=3D"border:none;border-left:solid blue 1.5pt;padding:0cm 0cm 0cm =
4.0pt">
<div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:9.5pt">////////////////////=
///////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////=
/////////////////////////////////////////////////////////</span><o:p></o:p>=
</p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:9.5pt">&nbsp;</span><o:p></=
o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:9.5pt">Charter for Working =
Group</span><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:9.5pt">&nbsp;</span><o:p></=
o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:9.5pt">Low power and Lossy =
Networks (LLNs) are made up of many embedded devices with limited power, me=
mory, and processing resources. They are interconnected by a variety of lin=
ks, such as IEEE 802.15.4, Bluetooth,
 Low Power WiFi, wired or other low power PLC (Powerline Communication) lin=
ks. LLNs are transitioning to an end-to-end IP-based solution to avoid the =
problem of non-interoperable networks interconnected by protocol translatio=
n gateways and proxies.</span><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:9.5pt">&nbsp;</span><o:p></=
o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:9.5pt">Generally speaking, =
LLNs are characterized as follows, but not limited to:</span><o:p></o:p></p=
>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:9.5pt">&nbsp;</span><o:p></=
o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:9.5pt">-LLNs operate with a=
 hard, very small bound on state.&nbsp;</span><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:9.5pt">&nbsp;</span><o:p></=
o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:9.5pt">-In most cases, LLN =
optimize for saving energy by using small packet headers and few reduce amo=
unt of control packets.</span><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:9.5pt">&nbsp;</span><o:p></=
o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:9.5pt">-Typical traffic pat=
terns are not simply unicast flows (e.g. in some cases most if not all traf=
fic can be point to multipoint).</span><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:9.5pt">&nbsp;</span><o:p></=
o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:9.5pt">- In most cases, LLN=
s will be employed over link layers with restricted frame-sizes and low bit=
 rates, thus a routing protocol for LLNs should be specifically adapted for=
 such link layers.&nbsp;</span><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:9.5pt">&nbsp;</span><o:p></=
o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:9.5pt">- LLN routing protoc=
ols have to be very careful when trading off efficiency for generality; sin=
ce LLN nodes do not have resources to waste.</span><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:9.5pt">&nbsp;</span><o:p></=
o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:9.5pt">&nbsp;</span><o:p></=
o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:9.5pt">These specific prope=
rties cause LLNs to have specific routing requirements.</span><o:p></o:p></=
p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:9.5pt">&nbsp;</span><o:p></=
o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:9.5pt">Existing routing pro=
tocols such as OSPF, IS-IS, AODV, and OLSR have been evaluated by the worki=
ng group (draft-levis-roll-overview-protocols-00) and have in their current=
 form been found to not satisfy all
 of these specific routing requirements &#8220;Routing Requirements for Urb=
an Low-Power and Lossy Networks&#8221; RFC 5548, &#8220;Industrial Routing =
Requirements in Low-Power and Lossy Networks&#8221; RFC 5673, &#8220;Home A=
utomation Routing Requirements in Low-Power and Lossy Networks&#8221;
 RFC 5826, Building Automation Routing Requirements in Low-Power and Lossy =
Networks RFC 5867.</span><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:9.5pt">&nbsp;</span><o:p></=
o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:9.5pt">The Working Group is=
 focused on routing issues for LLN and maintaining the protocols developed =
by the working group.</span><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:9.5pt">&nbsp;</span><o:p></=
o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:9.5pt">There is a wide scop=
e of application areas for LLNs, including industrial monitoring, building =
automation (HVAC, lighting, access control, fire), connected homes, health =
care, environmental monitoring, urban
 sensor networks (e.g. Smart Grid), asset tracking. The Working Group focus=
es on routing solutions for a subset of these: connected home, building and=
 urban sensor networks for which routing requirements have been specified. =
These application-specific routing
 requirement documents were used for protocol design.</span><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:9.5pt">The Working Group fo=
cuses on IPv6 routing architectural framework for these application scenari=
os. The Framework will take into consideration various aspects including hi=
gh reliability in the presence of time
 varying loss characteristics and connectivity while permitting low-power o=
peration with very modest memory and CPU pressure in networks potentially c=
omprising a very large number (several thousands) of nodes.</span><o:p></o:=
p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:9.5pt">&nbsp;</span><o:p></=
o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:9.5pt">The Working Group wi=
ll document how data packets are routed and encapsulated when they cross th=
e LLN, and when they enter and exit the LLN: the appropriate use of RH3 (RF=
C6553), RPI (RFC6554) and IPv6-in-IPv6
 encapsulation including how routing loops are detected. In consultation wi=
th the 6lo WG, the Working Group will design a method to compress these rou=
ting headers into a single block. The WGLC on this work will be shared with=
 6lo. The Working group will align
 with the 6man WG when needed.</span><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:9.5pt">ROLL is responsible =
for maintenance of the protocols that is has developed, including RPL and M=
PL. AD approval is required for each new work item that is proposed.</span>=
<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:9.5pt">&nbsp;</span><o:p></=
o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:9.5pt">Work Items are:</spa=
n><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:9.5pt">&nbsp;</span><o:p></=
o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:9.5pt">- Guidance in using =
RFC6553, RFC6554, and IPv6-in-IPv6 encapsulation.</span><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:9.5pt">&nbsp;</span><o:p></=
o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:9.5pt">- Compression of &nb=
sp;RFC6553, RFC6554, and IP headers in the 6LoWPAN adaptation layer context=
</span><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:9.5pt">&nbsp;</span><o:p></=
o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:9.5pt">- Additional protoco=
l to &nbsp;reduce paths for RPL in non-storing mode</span><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:9.5pt">&nbsp;</span><o:p></=
o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:9.5pt">- Automatic selectio=
n of MPL forwarders to reduce message replication</span><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:9.5pt">&nbsp;</span><o:p></=
o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:9.5pt">- Data models for RP=
L and MPL management</span><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:9.5pt">&nbsp;</span><o:p></=
o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:9.5pt">- Alternative Multic=
ast algorithm based on Bier forwarding.</span><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:9.5pt">&nbsp;</span><o:p></=
o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:9.5pt">- Solution &nbsp;of =
&nbsp;the &nbsp;problems associated with the use of No- Path DAO messaging =
in RPL.</span><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:9.5pt">&nbsp;</span><o:p></=
o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:9.5pt">- Methods to improve=
 the current RPL behaviour, e.g. DIS modifications in RPL.</span><o:p></o:p=
></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:9.5pt">&nbsp;</span><o:p></=
o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:9.5pt">&nbsp;</span><o:p></=
o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:9.5pt">Milestones &nbsp; &n=
bsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; =
&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;DATE</span><o:p></o:=
p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:9.5pt">&nbsp;</span><o:p></=
o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:9.5pt">Recharter WG or clos=
e &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; September =
2017</span><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:9.5pt">&nbsp;</span><o:p></=
o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:9.5pt">Initial submission o=
f draft about YANG RPL model to IESG &nbsp; March 2017</span><o:p></o:p></p=
>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:9.5pt">&nbsp;</span><o:p></=
o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:9.5pt">Initial submission o=
f draft about MPL selection to IESG &nbsp; &nbsp;January 2017</span><o:p></=
o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:9.5pt">&nbsp;</span><o:p></=
o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:9.5pt">Initial submission o=
f draft about Bier Multicast to IESG &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;November 2016</spa=
n><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:9.5pt">&nbsp;</span><o:p></=
o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:9.5pt">Submit draft about Y=
ANG MPL model to IESG &nbsp; &nbsp; October 2016</span><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:9.5pt">&nbsp;</span><o:p></=
o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:9.5pt">Initial Submission o=
f the draft about when to use RFC6553, RFC6554, and IPv6-in-IPv6 encapsulat=
ion &nbsp; &nbsp; August 2016</span><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:9.5pt">Draft-ietf-roll-useo=
frplinfo to the IESG.</span><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:9.5pt">&nbsp;</span><o:p></=
o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:9.5pt">Initial submission o=
f the draft about how to compress RFC6553, RFC6554, and IP headers in the 6=
LoWPAN adaptation layer context. &nbsp;to the IESG. &nbsp; &nbsp;May 2016</=
span><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:9.5pt">draft-ietf-roll-rout=
ing-dispatch &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp;</span><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:9.5pt">&nbsp;</span><o:p></=
o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:9.5pt">Initial Submission o=
f the No-Path DAO Problem Statement to the IESG &nbsp; &nbsp; November 2016=
</span><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:9.5pt">&nbsp;</span><o:p></=
o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:9.5pt">&nbsp;</span><o:p></=
o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:9.5pt">&nbsp;</span><o:p></=
o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:9.5pt">////////////////////=
///////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////=
///////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////=
///////////</span><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</blockquote>
<blockquote style=3D"margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">_______________________________________________<br>
Roll mailing list<br>
<a href=3D"mailto:Roll@ietf.org">Roll@ietf.org</a><br>
<a href=3D"https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/roll">https://www.ietf.org=
/mailman/listinfo/roll</a><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
</blockquote>
</div>
</div>
</body>
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Subject: Re: [Roll] Request for Comments for ROLL Charter
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Hello Pascal, Michael,

Isn't it too restrictive if we limit the text to the non-storing and 
storing modes only?
IMO other modes, like the "P2P Route Discovery" mode as defined inRFC6997
and future modes (if planned) could also benefit from those improvements.

How about:
Additional protocol elements to reduce bytes over the air and/or the 
amount of accumulated routing states.

On 06/28/2016 03:49 PM, Pascal Thubert (pthubert) wrote:
> Pascal Thubert (pthubert) <pthubert@cisco.com> wrote:
>>     > Additional protocol elements to reduce source route headers in
>>     > non-storing mode and/or memory consumption in storing mode such as
>>     > route projection and BIER.
>> It sounds too prescriptive, as if we have limited ourselves in the charter to those two methods.  I don't think that this is your intention.
> Agreed, Michael. We can bar from " such as ..." on.
>
> Cheers,
>
> Pascal
>
>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: Roll [mailto:roll-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of Michael Richardson
>> Sent: mardi 28 juin 2016 14:47
>> To: Routing Over Low power and Lossy networks <roll@ietf.org>
>> Cc: peter van der Stok <stokcons@xs4all.nl>
>> Subject: Re: [Roll] Request for Comments for ROLL Charter
>>
>>
>> Pascal Thubert (pthubert) <pthubert@cisco.com> wrote:
>>      > Additional protocol elements to reduce source route headers in
>>      > non-storing mode and/or memory consumption in storing mode such as
>>      > route projection and BIER.
>>
>> It sounds too prescriptive, as if we have limited ourselves in the charter to those
>> two methods.  I don't think that this is your intention.
>>
>> If you wrote:
>>
>>      > Additional protocol elements to reduce source route headers in
>>      > non-storing mode and/or memory consumption in storing mode.
>>      > These elements may leverage mechanisms such as route projection and
>> BIER.
>>
>> would be clearer that these are not the only two admissible methods.
>> I'm not sure that we need to say what the methods are *at all*
>>
>>      > There is a wide scope of application areas for LLNs, including
>>      > industrial monitoring, building automation (HVAC, lighting, access
>>      > control, fire), connected homes, health care, environmental monitoring,
>>      > urban sensor networks (e.g. Smart Grid), asset tracking.  The Working
>>      > Group focuses on routing solutions for a subset of these: connected
>>      > home, building and urban sensor networks for which routing requirements
>>      > have been specified. These application-specific routing requirement
>>      > documents were used for protocol design.
>>
>>      > The Working Group focuses on IPv6 routing architectural framework for
>>      > these application scenarios. The Framework will take into consideration
>>      > various aspects including high reliability in the presence of time
>>      > varying loss characteristics and connectivity while permitting
>>      > low-power operation with very modest memory and CPU pressure in
>>      > networks potentially comprising a very large number (several thousands)
>>      > of nodes.
>>
>> I'd like these two paragraphs removed as being ancient motherhood text.
>>
>> --
>> Michael Richardson <mcr+IETF@sandelman.ca>, Sandelman Software Works  -=
>> IPv6 IoT consulting =-
>>
>>
> _______________________________________________
> Roll mailing list
> Roll@ietf.org
> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/roll


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From: "Prof. Diego Dujovne" <diego.dujovne@mail.udp.cl>
Date: Tue, 28 Jun 2016 11:42:55 -0300
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Pascal, Michael:
                         I agree with Cenk. I think we need some room for
other ideas. Is it too general to use that phrase?
Regards,

                                          Diego

2016-06-28 10:31 GMT-04:00 Cenk G=C3=BCndogan <cnkgndgn@gmail.com>:

> Hello Pascal, Michael,
>
> Isn't it too restrictive if we limit the text to the non-storing and
> storing modes only?
> IMO other modes, like the "P2P Route Discovery" mode as defined inRFC6997
> and future modes (if planned) could also benefit from those improvements.
>
> How about:
> Additional protocol elements to reduce bytes over the air and/or the
> amount of accumulated routing states.
>
>
> On 06/28/2016 03:49 PM, Pascal Thubert (pthubert) wrote:
>
>> Pascal Thubert (pthubert) <pthubert@cisco.com> wrote:
>>
>>>     > Additional protocol elements to reduce source route headers in
>>>     > non-storing mode and/or memory consumption in storing mode such a=
s
>>>     > route projection and BIER.
>>> It sounds too prescriptive, as if we have limited ourselves in the
>>> charter to those two methods.  I don't think that this is your intentio=
n.
>>>
>> Agreed, Michael. We can bar from " such as ..." on.
>>
>> Cheers,
>>
>> Pascal
>>
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>>> From: Roll [mailto:roll-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of Michael
>>> Richardson
>>> Sent: mardi 28 juin 2016 14:47
>>> To: Routing Over Low power and Lossy networks <roll@ietf.org>
>>> Cc: peter van der Stok <stokcons@xs4all.nl>
>>> Subject: Re: [Roll] Request for Comments for ROLL Charter
>>>
>>>
>>> Pascal Thubert (pthubert) <pthubert@cisco.com> wrote:
>>>      > Additional protocol elements to reduce source route headers in
>>>      > non-storing mode and/or memory consumption in storing mode such =
as
>>>      > route projection and BIER.
>>>
>>> It sounds too prescriptive, as if we have limited ourselves in the
>>> charter to those
>>> two methods.  I don't think that this is your intention.
>>>
>>> If you wrote:
>>>
>>>      > Additional protocol elements to reduce source route headers in
>>>      > non-storing mode and/or memory consumption in storing mode.
>>>      > These elements may leverage mechanisms such as route projection
>>> and
>>> BIER.
>>>
>>> would be clearer that these are not the only two admissible methods.
>>> I'm not sure that we need to say what the methods are *at all*
>>>
>>>      > There is a wide scope of application areas for LLNs, including
>>>      > industrial monitoring, building automation (HVAC, lighting, acce=
ss
>>>      > control, fire), connected homes, health care, environmental
>>> monitoring,
>>>      > urban sensor networks (e.g. Smart Grid), asset tracking.  The
>>> Working
>>>      > Group focuses on routing solutions for a subset of these:
>>> connected
>>>      > home, building and urban sensor networks for which routing
>>> requirements
>>>      > have been specified. These application-specific routing
>>> requirement
>>>      > documents were used for protocol design.
>>>
>>>      > The Working Group focuses on IPv6 routing architectural framewor=
k
>>> for
>>>      > these application scenarios. The Framework will take into
>>> consideration
>>>      > various aspects including high reliability in the presence of ti=
me
>>>      > varying loss characteristics and connectivity while permitting
>>>      > low-power operation with very modest memory and CPU pressure in
>>>      > networks potentially comprising a very large number (several
>>> thousands)
>>>      > of nodes.
>>>
>>> I'd like these two paragraphs removed as being ancient motherhood text.
>>>
>>> --
>>> Michael Richardson <mcr+IETF@sandelman.ca>, Sandelman Software Works  -=
=3D
>>> IPv6 IoT consulting =3D-
>>>
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>> Roll mailing list
>> Roll@ietf.org
>> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/roll
>>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Roll mailing list
> Roll@ietf.org
> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/roll
>



--=20
DIEGO DUJOVNE
Profesor Asociado
Escuela de Inform=C3=A1tica y Telecomunicaciones
Facultad de Ingenier=C3=ADa - Universidad Diego Portales - Chile
www.ingenieria.udp.cl
(56 2) 676 8125

--94eb2c07405c092a32053657a750
Content-Type: text/html; charset=UTF-8
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<div dir=3D"ltr"><div><div>Pascal, Michael:<br></div>=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=
=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=
=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 I agree with Cenk. I think=
 we need some room for <br></div><div>other ideas. Is it too general to use=
 that phrase?<br></div><div>Regards,<br><br></div><div>=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=
=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=
=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=
=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=
=A0 Diego<br></div></div><div class=3D"gmail_extra"><br><div class=3D"gmail=
_quote">2016-06-28 10:31 GMT-04:00 Cenk G=C3=BCndogan <span dir=3D"ltr">&lt=
;<a href=3D"mailto:cnkgndgn@gmail.com" target=3D"_blank">cnkgndgn@gmail.com=
</a>&gt;</span>:<br><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0 0 0=
 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">Hello Pascal, Michael,<b=
r>
<br>
Isn&#39;t it too restrictive if we limit the text to the non-storing and st=
oring modes only?<br>
IMO other modes, like the &quot;P2P Route Discovery&quot; mode as defined i=
nRFC6997<br>
and future modes (if planned) could also benefit from those improvements.<b=
r>
<br>
How about:<br>
Additional protocol elements to reduce bytes over the air and/or the amount=
 of accumulated routing states.<div class=3D"HOEnZb"><div class=3D"h5"><br>
<br>
On 06/28/2016 03:49 PM, Pascal Thubert (pthubert) wrote:<br>
<blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1p=
x #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">
Pascal Thubert (pthubert) &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:pthubert@cisco.com" target=
=3D"_blank">pthubert@cisco.com</a>&gt; wrote:<br>
<blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1p=
x #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 &gt; Additional protocol elements to reduce source route head=
ers in<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 &gt; non-storing mode and/or memory consumption in storing mo=
de such as<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 &gt; route projection and BIER.<br>
It sounds too prescriptive, as if we have limited ourselves in the charter =
to those two methods.=C2=A0 I don&#39;t think that this is your intention.<=
br>
</blockquote>
Agreed, Michael. We can bar from &quot; such as ...&quot; on.<br>
<br>
Cheers,<br>
<br>
Pascal<br>
<br>
<br>
<blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1p=
x #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">
-----Original Message-----<br>
From: Roll [mailto:<a href=3D"mailto:roll-bounces@ietf.org" target=3D"_blan=
k">roll-bounces@ietf.org</a>] On Behalf Of Michael Richardson<br>
Sent: mardi 28 juin 2016 14:47<br>
To: Routing Over Low power and Lossy networks &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:roll@ie=
tf.org" target=3D"_blank">roll@ietf.org</a>&gt;<br>
Cc: peter van der Stok &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:stokcons@xs4all.nl" target=3D"=
_blank">stokcons@xs4all.nl</a>&gt;<br>
Subject: Re: [Roll] Request for Comments for ROLL Charter<br>
<br>
<br>
Pascal Thubert (pthubert) &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:pthubert@cisco.com" target=
=3D"_blank">pthubert@cisco.com</a>&gt; wrote:<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0&gt; Additional protocol elements to reduce source rout=
e headers in<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0&gt; non-storing mode and/or memory consumption in stor=
ing mode such as<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0&gt; route projection and BIER.<br>
<br>
It sounds too prescriptive, as if we have limited ourselves in the charter =
to those<br>
two methods.=C2=A0 I don&#39;t think that this is your intention.<br>
<br>
If you wrote:<br>
<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0&gt; Additional protocol elements to reduce source rout=
e headers in<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0&gt; non-storing mode and/or memory consumption in stor=
ing mode.<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0&gt; These elements may leverage mechanisms such as rou=
te projection and<br>
BIER.<br>
<br>
would be clearer that these are not the only two admissible methods.<br>
I&#39;m not sure that we need to say what the methods are *at all*<br>
<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0&gt; There is a wide scope of application areas for LLN=
s, including<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0&gt; industrial monitoring, building automation (HVAC, =
lighting, access<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0&gt; control, fire), connected homes, health care, envi=
ronmental monitoring,<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0&gt; urban sensor networks (e.g. Smart Grid), asset tra=
cking.=C2=A0 The Working<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0&gt; Group focuses on routing solutions for a subset of=
 these: connected<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0&gt; home, building and urban sensor networks for which=
 routing requirements<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0&gt; have been specified. These application-specific ro=
uting requirement<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0&gt; documents were used for protocol design.<br>
<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0&gt; The Working Group focuses on IPv6 routing architec=
tural framework for<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0&gt; these application scenarios. The Framework will ta=
ke into consideration<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0&gt; various aspects including high reliability in the =
presence of time<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0&gt; varying loss characteristics and connectivity whil=
e permitting<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0&gt; low-power operation with very modest memory and CP=
U pressure in<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0&gt; networks potentially comprising a very large numbe=
r (several thousands)<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0&gt; of nodes.<br>
<br>
I&#39;d like these two paragraphs removed as being ancient motherhood text.=
<br>
<br>
--<br>
Michael Richardson &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:mcr%2BIETF@sandelman.ca" target=3D=
"_blank">mcr+IETF@sandelman.ca</a>&gt;, Sandelman Software Works=C2=A0 -=3D=
<br>
IPv6 IoT consulting =3D-<br>
<br>
<br>
</blockquote>
_______________________________________________<br>
Roll mailing list<br>
<a href=3D"mailto:Roll@ietf.org" target=3D"_blank">Roll@ietf.org</a><br>
<a href=3D"https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/roll" rel=3D"noreferrer" t=
arget=3D"_blank">https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/roll</a><br>
</blockquote>
<br>
_______________________________________________<br>
Roll mailing list<br>
<a href=3D"mailto:Roll@ietf.org" target=3D"_blank">Roll@ietf.org</a><br>
<a href=3D"https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/roll" rel=3D"noreferrer" t=
arget=3D"_blank">https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/roll</a><br>
</div></div></blockquote></div><br><br clear=3D"all"><br>-- <br><div class=
=3D"gmail_signature" data-smartmail=3D"gmail_signature"><div dir=3D"ltr"><d=
iv><div dir=3D"ltr"><div>DIEGO DUJOVNE<br>Profesor Asociado<br>Escuela de I=
nform=C3=A1tica y Telecomunicaciones<br>Facultad de Ingenier=C3=ADa - Unive=
rsidad Diego Portales - Chile<br><a href=3D"http://www.ingenieria.udp.cl" t=
arget=3D"_blank">www.ingenieria.udp.cl</a><br>(56 2) 676 8125<br></div></di=
v></div></div></div>
</div>

--94eb2c07405c092a32053657a750--


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--_000_4B5E9AF4CC704ABAA637A0F8585EAEDFlandisgyrcom_
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+1 just a generalization of my earlier suggestion

R.

On Jun 28, 2016, at 10:46 AM, Prof. Diego Dujovne <diego.dujovne@mail.udp.c=
l<mailto:diego.dujovne@mail.udp.cl>> wrote:

Pascal, Michael:
                         I agree with Cenk. I think we need some room for
other ideas. Is it too general to use that phrase?
Regards,

                                          Diego

2016-06-28 10:31 GMT-04:00 Cenk G?ndogan <cnkgndgn@gmail.com<mailto:cnkgndg=
n@gmail.com>>:
Hello Pascal, Michael,

Isn't it too restrictive if we limit the text to the non-storing and storin=
g modes only?
IMO other modes, like the "P2P Route Discovery" mode as defined inRFC6997
and future modes (if planned) could also benefit from those improvements.

How about:
Additional protocol elements to reduce bytes over the air and/or the amount=
 of accumulated routing states.


On 06/28/2016 03:49 PM, Pascal Thubert (pthubert) wrote:
Pascal Thubert (pthubert) <pthubert@cisco.com<mailto:pthubert@cisco.com>> w=
rote:
    > Additional protocol elements to reduce source route headers in
    > non-storing mode and/or memory consumption in storing mode such as
    > route projection and BIER.
It sounds too prescriptive, as if we have limited ourselves in the charter =
to those two methods.  I don't think that this is your intention.
Agreed, Michael. We can bar from " such as ..." on.

Cheers,

Pascal


-----Original Message-----
From: Roll [mailto:roll-bounces@ietf.org<mailto:roll-bounces@ietf.org>] On =
Behalf Of Michael Richardson
Sent: mardi 28 juin 2016 14:47
To: Routing Over Low power and Lossy networks <roll@ietf.org<mailto:roll@ie=
tf.org>>
Cc: peter van der Stok <stokcons@xs4all.nl<mailto:stokcons@xs4all.nl>>
Subject: Re: [Roll] Request for Comments for ROLL Charter


Pascal Thubert (pthubert) <pthubert@cisco.com<mailto:pthubert@cisco.com>> w=
rote:
     > Additional protocol elements to reduce source route headers in
     > non-storing mode and/or memory consumption in storing mode such as
     > route projection and BIER.

It sounds too prescriptive, as if we have limited ourselves in the charter =
to those
two methods.  I don't think that this is your intention.

If you wrote:

     > Additional protocol elements to reduce source route headers in
     > non-storing mode and/or memory consumption in storing mode.
     > These elements may leverage mechanisms such as route projection and
BIER.

would be clearer that these are not the only two admissible methods.
I'm not sure that we need to say what the methods are *at all*

     > There is a wide scope of application areas for LLNs, including
     > industrial monitoring, building automation (HVAC, lighting, access
     > control, fire), connected homes, health care, environmental monitori=
ng,
     > urban sensor networks (e.g. Smart Grid), asset tracking.  The Workin=
g
     > Group focuses on routing solutions for a subset of these: connected
     > home, building and urban sensor networks for which routing requireme=
nts
     > have been specified. These application-specific routing requirement
     > documents were used for protocol design.

     > The Working Group focuses on IPv6 routing architectural framework fo=
r
     > these application scenarios. The Framework will take into considerat=
ion
     > various aspects including high reliability in the presence of time
     > varying loss characteristics and connectivity while permitting
     > low-power operation with very modest memory and CPU pressure in
     > networks potentially comprising a very large number (several thousan=
ds)
     > of nodes.

I'd like these two paragraphs removed as being ancient motherhood text.

--
Michael Richardson <mcr+IETF@sandelman.ca<mailto:mcr%2BIETF@sandelman.ca>>,=
 Sandelman Software Works  -=3D
IPv6 IoT consulting =3D-


_______________________________________________
Roll mailing list
Roll@ietf.org<mailto:Roll@ietf.org>
https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/roll

_______________________________________________
Roll mailing list
Roll@ietf.org<mailto:Roll@ietf.org>
https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/roll



--
DIEGO DUJOVNE
Profesor Asociado
Escuela de Inform?tica y Telecomunicaciones
Facultad de Ingenier?a - Universidad Diego Portales - Chile
www.ingenieria.udp.cl<http://www.ingenieria.udp.cl>
(56 2) 676 8125
_______________________________________________
Roll mailing list
Roll@ietf.org<mailto:Roll@ietf.org>
https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/roll

--_000_4B5E9AF4CC704ABAA637A0F8585EAEDFlandisgyrcom_
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<html>
<head>
<meta http-equiv=3D"Content-Type" content=3D"text/html; charset=3Dus-ascii"=
>
</head>
<body dir=3D"auto">
<div>&#43;1 just a generalization of my earlier suggestion<br>
<br>
R.</div>
<div><br>
On Jun 28, 2016, at 10:46 AM, Prof. Diego Dujovne &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:die=
go.dujovne@mail.udp.cl">diego.dujovne@mail.udp.cl</a>&gt; wrote:<br>
<br>
</div>
<blockquote type=3D"cite">
<div>
<div dir=3D"ltr">
<div>
<div>Pascal, Michael:<br>
</div>
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nb=
sp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; I agr=
ee with Cenk. I think we need some room for <br>
</div>
<div>other ideas. Is it too general to use that phrase?<br>
</div>
<div>Regards,<br>
<br>
</div>
<div>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbs=
p;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&=
nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbs=
p;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; Diego<br>
</div>
</div>
<div class=3D"gmail_extra"><br>
<div class=3D"gmail_quote">2016-06-28 10:31 GMT-04:00 Cenk G&uuml;ndogan <s=
pan dir=3D"ltr">
&lt;<a href=3D"mailto:cnkgndgn@gmail.com" target=3D"_blank">cnkgndgn@gmail.=
com</a>&gt;</span>:<br>
<blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1p=
x #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">
Hello Pascal, Michael,<br>
<br>
Isn't it too restrictive if we limit the text to the non-storing and storin=
g modes only?<br>
IMO other modes, like the &quot;P2P Route Discovery&quot; mode as defined i=
nRFC6997<br>
and future modes (if planned) could also benefit from those improvements.<b=
r>
<br>
How about:<br>
Additional protocol elements to reduce bytes over the air and/or the amount=
 of accumulated routing states.
<div class=3D"HOEnZb">
<div class=3D"h5"><br>
<br>
On 06/28/2016 03:49 PM, Pascal Thubert (pthubert) wrote:<br>
<blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1p=
x #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">
Pascal Thubert (pthubert) &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:pthubert@cisco.com" target=
=3D"_blank">pthubert@cisco.com</a>&gt; wrote:<br>
<blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1p=
x #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">
&nbsp; &nbsp; &gt; Additional protocol elements to reduce source route head=
ers in<br>
&nbsp; &nbsp; &gt; non-storing mode and/or memory consumption in storing mo=
de such as<br>
&nbsp; &nbsp; &gt; route projection and BIER.<br>
It sounds too prescriptive, as if we have limited ourselves in the charter =
to those two methods.&nbsp; I don't think that this is your intention.<br>
</blockquote>
Agreed, Michael. We can bar from &quot; such as ...&quot; on.<br>
<br>
Cheers,<br>
<br>
Pascal<br>
<br>
<br>
<blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1p=
x #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">
-----Original Message-----<br>
From: Roll [mailto:<a href=3D"mailto:roll-bounces@ietf.org" target=3D"_blan=
k">roll-bounces@ietf.org</a>] On Behalf Of Michael Richardson<br>
Sent: mardi 28 juin 2016 14:47<br>
To: Routing Over Low power and Lossy networks &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:roll@ie=
tf.org" target=3D"_blank">roll@ietf.org</a>&gt;<br>
Cc: peter van der Stok &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:stokcons@xs4all.nl" target=3D"=
_blank">stokcons@xs4all.nl</a>&gt;<br>
Subject: Re: [Roll] Request for Comments for ROLL Charter<br>
<br>
<br>
Pascal Thubert (pthubert) &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:pthubert@cisco.com" target=
=3D"_blank">pthubert@cisco.com</a>&gt; wrote:<br>
&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;&gt; Additional protocol elements to reduce source rout=
e headers in<br>
&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;&gt; non-storing mode and/or memory consumption in stor=
ing mode such as<br>
&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;&gt; route projection and BIER.<br>
<br>
It sounds too prescriptive, as if we have limited ourselves in the charter =
to those<br>
two methods.&nbsp; I don't think that this is your intention.<br>
<br>
If you wrote:<br>
<br>
&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;&gt; Additional protocol elements to reduce source rout=
e headers in<br>
&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;&gt; non-storing mode and/or memory consumption in stor=
ing mode.<br>
&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;&gt; These elements may leverage mechanisms such as rou=
te projection and<br>
BIER.<br>
<br>
would be clearer that these are not the only two admissible methods.<br>
I'm not sure that we need to say what the methods are *at all*<br>
<br>
&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;&gt; There is a wide scope of application areas for LLN=
s, including<br>
&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;&gt; industrial monitoring, building automation (HVAC, =
lighting, access<br>
&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;&gt; control, fire), connected homes, health care, envi=
ronmental monitoring,<br>
&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;&gt; urban sensor networks (e.g. Smart Grid), asset tra=
cking.&nbsp; The Working<br>
&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;&gt; Group focuses on routing solutions for a subset of=
 these: connected<br>
&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;&gt; home, building and urban sensor networks for which=
 routing requirements<br>
&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;&gt; have been specified. These application-specific ro=
uting requirement<br>
&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;&gt; documents were used for protocol design.<br>
<br>
&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;&gt; The Working Group focuses on IPv6 routing architec=
tural framework for<br>
&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;&gt; these application scenarios. The Framework will ta=
ke into consideration<br>
&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;&gt; various aspects including high reliability in the =
presence of time<br>
&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;&gt; varying loss characteristics and connectivity whil=
e permitting<br>
&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;&gt; low-power operation with very modest memory and CP=
U pressure in<br>
&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;&gt; networks potentially comprising a very large numbe=
r (several thousands)<br>
&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;&gt; of nodes.<br>
<br>
I'd like these two paragraphs removed as being ancient motherhood text.<br>
<br>
--<br>
Michael Richardson &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:mcr%2BIETF@sandelman.ca" target=3D=
"_blank">mcr&#43;IETF@sandelman.ca</a>&gt;, Sandelman Software Works&nbsp; =
-=3D<br>
IPv6 IoT consulting =3D-<br>
<br>
<br>
</blockquote>
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Roll mailing list<br>
<a href=3D"mailto:Roll@ietf.org" target=3D"_blank">Roll@ietf.org</a><br>
<a href=3D"https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/roll" rel=3D"noreferrer" t=
arget=3D"_blank">https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/roll</a><br>
</blockquote>
<br>
_______________________________________________<br>
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<a href=3D"mailto:Roll@ietf.org" target=3D"_blank">Roll@ietf.org</a><br>
<a href=3D"https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/roll" rel=3D"noreferrer" t=
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<br>
<br clear=3D"all">
<br>
-- <br>
<div class=3D"gmail_signature" data-smartmail=3D"gmail_signature">
<div dir=3D"ltr">
<div>
<div dir=3D"ltr">
<div>DIEGO DUJOVNE<br>
Profesor Asociado<br>
Escuela de Inform&aacute;tica y Telecomunicaciones<br>
Facultad de Ingenier&iacute;a - Universidad Diego Portales - Chile<br>
<a href=3D"http://www.ingenieria.udp.cl" target=3D"_blank">www.ingenieria.u=
dp.cl</a><br>
(56 2) 676 8125<br>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</blockquote>
<blockquote type=3D"cite">
<div><span>_______________________________________________</span><br>
<span>Roll mailing list</span><br>
<span><a href=3D"mailto:Roll@ietf.org">Roll@ietf.org</a></span><br>
<span><a href=3D"https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/roll">https://www.ie=
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From: "Pascal Thubert (pthubert)" <pthubert@cisco.com>
To: Routing Over Low power and Lossy networks <roll@ietf.org>
Thread-Topic: [Roll] Request for Comments for ROLL Charter
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So leave it at "improvements to the RPL routing protocol" ? It already has =
some multicast, so that much would be in as well.

Pascal

From: Roll [mailto:roll-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of Turner, Randy
Sent: mardi 28 juin 2016 17:12
To: Routing Over Low power and Lossy networks <roll@ietf.org>
Subject: Re: [Roll] Request for Comments for ROLL Charter

+1 just a generalization of my earlier suggestion

R.

On Jun 28, 2016, at 10:46 AM, Prof. Diego Dujovne <diego.dujovne@mail.udp.c=
l<mailto:diego.dujovne@mail.udp.cl>> wrote:
Pascal, Michael:
                         I agree with Cenk. I think we need some room for
other ideas. Is it too general to use that phrase?
Regards,
                                          Diego

2016-06-28 10:31 GMT-04:00 Cenk G=FCndogan <cnkgndgn@gmail.com<mailto:cnkgn=
dgn@gmail.com>>:
Hello Pascal, Michael,

Isn't it too restrictive if we limit the text to the non-storing and storin=
g modes only?
IMO other modes, like the "P2P Route Discovery" mode as defined inRFC6997
and future modes (if planned) could also benefit from those improvements.

How about:
Additional protocol elements to reduce bytes over the air and/or the amount=
 of accumulated routing states.


On 06/28/2016 03:49 PM, Pascal Thubert (pthubert) wrote:
Pascal Thubert (pthubert) <pthubert@cisco.com<mailto:pthubert@cisco.com>> w=
rote:
    > Additional protocol elements to reduce source route headers in
    > non-storing mode and/or memory consumption in storing mode such as
    > route projection and BIER.
It sounds too prescriptive, as if we have limited ourselves in the charter =
to those two methods.  I don't think that this is your intention.
Agreed, Michael. We can bar from " such as ..." on.

Cheers,

Pascal

-----Original Message-----
From: Roll [mailto:roll-bounces@ietf.org<mailto:roll-bounces@ietf.org>] On =
Behalf Of Michael Richardson
Sent: mardi 28 juin 2016 14:47
To: Routing Over Low power and Lossy networks <roll@ietf.org<mailto:roll@ie=
tf.org>>
Cc: peter van der Stok <stokcons@xs4all.nl<mailto:stokcons@xs4all.nl>>
Subject: Re: [Roll] Request for Comments for ROLL Charter


Pascal Thubert (pthubert) <pthubert@cisco.com<mailto:pthubert@cisco.com>> w=
rote:
     > Additional protocol elements to reduce source route headers in
     > non-storing mode and/or memory consumption in storing mode such as
     > route projection and BIER.

It sounds too prescriptive, as if we have limited ourselves in the charter =
to those
two methods.  I don't think that this is your intention.

If you wrote:

     > Additional protocol elements to reduce source route headers in
     > non-storing mode and/or memory consumption in storing mode.
     > These elements may leverage mechanisms such as route projection and
BIER.

would be clearer that these are not the only two admissible methods.
I'm not sure that we need to say what the methods are *at all*

     > There is a wide scope of application areas for LLNs, including
     > industrial monitoring, building automation (HVAC, lighting, access
     > control, fire), connected homes, health care, environmental monitori=
ng,
     > urban sensor networks (e.g. Smart Grid), asset tracking.  The Workin=
g
     > Group focuses on routing solutions for a subset of these: connected
     > home, building and urban sensor networks for which routing requireme=
nts
     > have been specified. These application-specific routing requirement
     > documents were used for protocol design.

     > The Working Group focuses on IPv6 routing architectural framework fo=
r
     > these application scenarios. The Framework will take into considerat=
ion
     > various aspects including high reliability in the presence of time
     > varying loss characteristics and connectivity while permitting
     > low-power operation with very modest memory and CPU pressure in
     > networks potentially comprising a very large number (several thousan=
ds)
     > of nodes.

I'd like these two paragraphs removed as being ancient motherhood text.

--
Michael Richardson <mcr+IETF@sandelman.ca<mailto:mcr%2BIETF@sandelman.ca>>,=
 Sandelman Software Works  -=3D
IPv6 IoT consulting =3D-

_______________________________________________
Roll mailing list
Roll@ietf.org<mailto:Roll@ietf.org>
https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/roll

_______________________________________________
Roll mailing list
Roll@ietf.org<mailto:Roll@ietf.org>
https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/roll



--
DIEGO DUJOVNE
Profesor Asociado
Escuela de Inform=E1tica y Telecomunicaciones
Facultad de Ingenier=EDa - Universidad Diego Portales - Chile
www.ingenieria.udp.cl<http://www.ingenieria.udp.cl>
(56 2) 676 8125
_______________________________________________
Roll mailing list
Roll@ietf.org<mailto:Roll@ietf.org>
https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/roll

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osoft-com:office:office" xmlns:w=3D"urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:word" =
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<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,sans-serif;color:#1F497D">So leave it at &#8220;improvements to=
 the RPL routing protocol&#8221; ? It already has some multicast, so that m=
uch would be in as well.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,sans-serif;color:#1F497D"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"FR" style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-fam=
ily:&quot;Calibri&quot;,sans-serif;color:#1F497D">Pascal<o:p></o:p></span><=
/p>
</div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,sans-serif;color:#1F497D"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>
<div style=3D"border:none;border-left:solid blue 1.5pt;padding:0cm 0cm 0cm =
4.0pt">
<div>
<div style=3D"border:none;border-top:solid #E1E1E1 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0cm =
0cm 0cm">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><b><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot=
;Calibri&quot;,sans-serif">From:</span></b><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;=
font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,sans-serif"> Roll [mailto:roll-bounces@ietf=
.org]
<b>On Behalf Of </b>Turner, Randy<br>
<b>Sent:</b> mardi 28 juin 2016 17:12<br>
<b>To:</b> Routing Over Low power and Lossy networks &lt;roll@ietf.org&gt;<=
br>
<b>Subject:</b> Re: [Roll] Request for Comments for ROLL Charter<o:p></o:p>=
</span></p>
</div>
</div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">&#43;1 just a generalization of my earlier suggestio=
n<br>
<br>
R.<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-bottom:12.0pt"><br>
On Jun 28, 2016, at 10:46 AM, Prof. Diego Dujovne &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:die=
go.dujovne@mail.udp.cl">diego.dujovne@mail.udp.cl</a>&gt; wrote:<o:p></o:p>=
</p>
</div>
<blockquote style=3D"margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">
<div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">Pascal, Michael:<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbs=
p;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&=
nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; I agree with Cenk. I think we need some room for
<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">other ideas. Is it too general to use that phrase?<o=
:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-bottom:12.0pt">Regards,<o:p></o:p></=
p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbs=
p;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&=
nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbs=
p;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; Diego<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">2016-06-28 10:31 GMT-04:00 Cenk G=FCndogan &lt;<a hr=
ef=3D"mailto:cnkgndgn@gmail.com" target=3D"_blank">cnkgndgn@gmail.com</a>&g=
t;:<o:p></o:p></p>
<blockquote style=3D"border:none;border-left:solid #CCCCCC 1.0pt;padding:0c=
m 0cm 0cm 6.0pt;margin-left:4.8pt;margin-right:0cm">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">Hello Pascal, Michael,<br>
<br>
Isn't it too restrictive if we limit the text to the non-storing and storin=
g modes only?<br>
IMO other modes, like the &quot;P2P Route Discovery&quot; mode as defined i=
nRFC6997<br>
and future modes (if planned) could also benefit from those improvements.<b=
r>
<br>
How about:<br>
Additional protocol elements to reduce bytes over the air and/or the amount=
 of accumulated routing states.
<o:p></o:p></p>
<div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><br>
<br>
On 06/28/2016 03:49 PM, Pascal Thubert (pthubert) wrote:<o:p></o:p></p>
<blockquote style=3D"border:none;border-left:solid #CCCCCC 1.0pt;padding:0c=
m 0cm 0cm 6.0pt;margin-left:4.8pt;margin-right:0cm">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">Pascal Thubert (pthubert) &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:pthu=
bert@cisco.com" target=3D"_blank">pthubert@cisco.com</a>&gt; wrote:<o:p></o=
:p></p>
<blockquote style=3D"border:none;border-left:solid #CCCCCC 1.0pt;padding:0c=
m 0cm 0cm 6.0pt;margin-left:4.8pt;margin-right:0cm">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">&nbsp; &nbsp; &gt; Additional protocol elements to r=
educe source route headers in<br>
&nbsp; &nbsp; &gt; non-storing mode and/or memory consumption in storing mo=
de such as<br>
&nbsp; &nbsp; &gt; route projection and BIER.<br>
It sounds too prescriptive, as if we have limited ourselves in the charter =
to those two methods.&nbsp; I don't think that this is your intention.<o:p>=
</o:p></p>
</blockquote>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-bottom:12.0pt">Agreed, Michael. We c=
an bar from &quot; such as ...&quot; on.<br>
<br>
Cheers,<br>
<br>
Pascal<br>
<br>
<o:p></o:p></p>
<blockquote style=3D"border:none;border-left:solid #CCCCCC 1.0pt;padding:0c=
m 0cm 0cm 6.0pt;margin-left:4.8pt;margin-right:0cm">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-bottom:12.0pt">-----Original Message=
-----<br>
From: Roll [mailto:<a href=3D"mailto:roll-bounces@ietf.org" target=3D"_blan=
k">roll-bounces@ietf.org</a>] On Behalf Of Michael Richardson<br>
Sent: mardi 28 juin 2016 14:47<br>
To: Routing Over Low power and Lossy networks &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:roll@ie=
tf.org" target=3D"_blank">roll@ietf.org</a>&gt;<br>
Cc: peter van der Stok &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:stokcons@xs4all.nl" target=3D"=
_blank">stokcons@xs4all.nl</a>&gt;<br>
Subject: Re: [Roll] Request for Comments for ROLL Charter<br>
<br>
<br>
Pascal Thubert (pthubert) &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:pthubert@cisco.com" target=
=3D"_blank">pthubert@cisco.com</a>&gt; wrote:<br>
&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;&gt; Additional protocol elements to reduce source rout=
e headers in<br>
&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;&gt; non-storing mode and/or memory consumption in stor=
ing mode such as<br>
&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;&gt; route projection and BIER.<br>
<br>
It sounds too prescriptive, as if we have limited ourselves in the charter =
to those<br>
two methods.&nbsp; I don't think that this is your intention.<br>
<br>
If you wrote:<br>
<br>
&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;&gt; Additional protocol elements to reduce source rout=
e headers in<br>
&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;&gt; non-storing mode and/or memory consumption in stor=
ing mode.<br>
&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;&gt; These elements may leverage mechanisms such as rou=
te projection and<br>
BIER.<br>
<br>
would be clearer that these are not the only two admissible methods.<br>
I'm not sure that we need to say what the methods are *at all*<br>
<br>
&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;&gt; There is a wide scope of application areas for LLN=
s, including<br>
&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;&gt; industrial monitoring, building automation (HVAC, =
lighting, access<br>
&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;&gt; control, fire), connected homes, health care, envi=
ronmental monitoring,<br>
&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;&gt; urban sensor networks (e.g. Smart Grid), asset tra=
cking.&nbsp; The Working<br>
&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;&gt; Group focuses on routing solutions for a subset of=
 these: connected<br>
&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;&gt; home, building and urban sensor networks for which=
 routing requirements<br>
&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;&gt; have been specified. These application-specific ro=
uting requirement<br>
&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;&gt; documents were used for protocol design.<br>
<br>
&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;&gt; The Working Group focuses on IPv6 routing architec=
tural framework for<br>
&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;&gt; these application scenarios. The Framework will ta=
ke into consideration<br>
&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;&gt; various aspects including high reliability in the =
presence of time<br>
&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;&gt; varying loss characteristics and connectivity whil=
e permitting<br>
&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;&gt; low-power operation with very modest memory and CP=
U pressure in<br>
&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;&gt; networks potentially comprising a very large numbe=
r (several thousands)<br>
&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;&gt; of nodes.<br>
<br>
I'd like these two paragraphs removed as being ancient motherhood text.<br>
<br>
--<br>
Michael Richardson &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:mcr%2BIETF@sandelman.ca" target=3D=
"_blank">mcr&#43;IETF@sandelman.ca</a>&gt;, Sandelman Software Works&nbsp; =
-=3D<br>
IPv6 IoT consulting =3D-<br>
<br>
<o:p></o:p></p>
</blockquote>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">_______________________________________________<br>
Roll mailing list<br>
<a href=3D"mailto:Roll@ietf.org" target=3D"_blank">Roll@ietf.org</a><br>
<a href=3D"https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/roll" target=3D"_blank">ht=
tps://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/roll</a><o:p></o:p></p>
</blockquote>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><br>
_______________________________________________<br>
Roll mailing list<br>
<a href=3D"mailto:Roll@ietf.org" target=3D"_blank">Roll@ietf.org</a><br>
<a href=3D"https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/roll" target=3D"_blank">ht=
tps://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/roll</a><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
</div>
</blockquote>
</div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><br>
<br clear=3D"all">
<br>
-- <o:p></o:p></p>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">DIEGO DUJOVNE<br>
Profesor Asociado<br>
Escuela de Inform=E1tica y Telecomunicaciones<br>
Facultad de Ingenier=EDa - Universidad Diego Portales - Chile<br>
<a href=3D"http://www.ingenieria.udp.cl" target=3D"_blank">www.ingenieria.u=
dp.cl</a><br>
(56 2) 676 8125<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</blockquote>
<blockquote style=3D"margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">_______________________________________________<br>
Roll mailing list<br>
<a href=3D"mailto:Roll@ietf.org">Roll@ietf.org</a><br>
<a href=3D"https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/roll">https://www.ietf.org=
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From: "Prof. Diego Dujovne" <diego.dujovne@mail.udp.cl>
Date: Tue, 28 Jun 2016 13:02:18 -0300
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To: Routing Over Low power and Lossy networks <roll@ietf.org>
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I vote for that text. I like multicast included in the
charter too.
Regards,

                                Diego

2016-06-28 11:53 GMT-04:00 Pascal Thubert (pthubert) <pthubert@cisco.com>:

> So leave it at =E2=80=9Cimprovements to the RPL routing protocol=E2=80=9D=
 ? It already has
> some multicast, so that much would be in as well.
>
>
>
> Pascal
>
>
>
> *From:* Roll [mailto:roll-bounces@ietf.org] *On Behalf Of *Turner, Randy
> *Sent:* mardi 28 juin 2016 17:12
> *To:* Routing Over Low power and Lossy networks <roll@ietf.org>
> *Subject:* Re: [Roll] Request for Comments for ROLL Charter
>
>
>
> +1 just a generalization of my earlier suggestion
>
> R.
>
>
> On Jun 28, 2016, at 10:46 AM, Prof. Diego Dujovne <
> diego.dujovne@mail.udp.cl> wrote:
>
> Pascal, Michael:
>
>                          I agree with Cenk. I think we need some room for
>
> other ideas. Is it too general to use that phrase?
>
> Regards,
>
>                                           Diego
>
>
>
> 2016-06-28 10:31 GMT-04:00 Cenk G=C3=BCndogan <cnkgndgn@gmail.com>:
>
> Hello Pascal, Michael,
>
> Isn't it too restrictive if we limit the text to the non-storing and
> storing modes only?
> IMO other modes, like the "P2P Route Discovery" mode as defined inRFC6997
> and future modes (if planned) could also benefit from those improvements.
>
> How about:
> Additional protocol elements to reduce bytes over the air and/or the
> amount of accumulated routing states.
>
>
>
> On 06/28/2016 03:49 PM, Pascal Thubert (pthubert) wrote:
>
> Pascal Thubert (pthubert) <pthubert@cisco.com> wrote:
>
>     > Additional protocol elements to reduce source route headers in
>     > non-storing mode and/or memory consumption in storing mode such as
>     > route projection and BIER.
> It sounds too prescriptive, as if we have limited ourselves in the charte=
r
> to those two methods.  I don't think that this is your intention.
>
> Agreed, Michael. We can bar from " such as ..." on.
>
> Cheers,
>
> Pascal
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Roll [mailto:roll-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of Michael Richardson
> Sent: mardi 28 juin 2016 14:47
> To: Routing Over Low power and Lossy networks <roll@ietf.org>
> Cc: peter van der Stok <stokcons@xs4all.nl>
> Subject: Re: [Roll] Request for Comments for ROLL Charter
>
>
> Pascal Thubert (pthubert) <pthubert@cisco.com> wrote:
>      > Additional protocol elements to reduce source route headers in
>      > non-storing mode and/or memory consumption in storing mode such as
>      > route projection and BIER.
>
> It sounds too prescriptive, as if we have limited ourselves in the charte=
r
> to those
> two methods.  I don't think that this is your intention.
>
> If you wrote:
>
>      > Additional protocol elements to reduce source route headers in
>      > non-storing mode and/or memory consumption in storing mode.
>      > These elements may leverage mechanisms such as route projection an=
d
> BIER.
>
> would be clearer that these are not the only two admissible methods.
> I'm not sure that we need to say what the methods are *at all*
>
>      > There is a wide scope of application areas for LLNs, including
>      > industrial monitoring, building automation (HVAC, lighting, access
>      > control, fire), connected homes, health care, environmental
> monitoring,
>      > urban sensor networks (e.g. Smart Grid), asset tracking.  The
> Working
>      > Group focuses on routing solutions for a subset of these: connecte=
d
>      > home, building and urban sensor networks for which routing
> requirements
>      > have been specified. These application-specific routing requiremen=
t
>      > documents were used for protocol design.
>
>      > The Working Group focuses on IPv6 routing architectural framework
> for
>      > these application scenarios. The Framework will take into
> consideration
>      > various aspects including high reliability in the presence of time
>      > varying loss characteristics and connectivity while permitting
>      > low-power operation with very modest memory and CPU pressure in
>      > networks potentially comprising a very large number (several
> thousands)
>      > of nodes.
>
> I'd like these two paragraphs removed as being ancient motherhood text.
>
> --
> Michael Richardson <mcr+IETF@sandelman.ca>, Sandelman Software Works  -=
=3D
> IPv6 IoT consulting =3D-
>
> _______________________________________________
> Roll mailing list
> Roll@ietf.org
> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/roll
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Roll mailing list
> Roll@ietf.org
> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/roll
>
>
>
>
> --
>
> DIEGO DUJOVNE
> Profesor Asociado
> Escuela de Inform=C3=A1tica y Telecomunicaciones
> Facultad de Ingenier=C3=ADa - Universidad Diego Portales - Chile
> www.ingenieria.udp.cl
> (56 2) 676 8125
>
> _______________________________________________
> Roll mailing list
> Roll@ietf.org
> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/roll
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Roll mailing list
> Roll@ietf.org
> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/roll
>
>


--=20
DIEGO DUJOVNE
Profesor Asociado
Escuela de Inform=C3=A1tica y Telecomunicaciones
Facultad de Ingenier=C3=ADa - Universidad Diego Portales - Chile
www.ingenieria.udp.cl
(56 2) 676 8125

--001a11c3af2efd0a19053658c21c
Content-Type: text/html; charset=UTF-8
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

<div dir=3D"ltr"><div><div>I vote for that text. I like multicast included =
in the<br></div>charter too.<br></div><div>Regards,<br><br></div><div>=C2=
=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=
=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=
=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 Diego<br></div></div><div class=3D"gmail_=
extra"><br><div class=3D"gmail_quote">2016-06-28 11:53 GMT-04:00 Pascal Thu=
bert (pthubert) <span dir=3D"ltr">&lt;<a href=3D"mailto:pthubert@cisco.com"=
 target=3D"_blank">pthubert@cisco.com</a>&gt;</span>:<br><blockquote class=
=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padd=
ing-left:1ex">





<div link=3D"blue" vlink=3D"purple" lang=3D"EN-US">
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,sans-serif;color:#1f497d">So leave it at =E2=80=9Cimprovements =
to the RPL routing protocol=E2=80=9D ? It already has some multicast, so th=
at much would be in as well.<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,sans-serif;color:#1f497d"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,sans-serif;color:#1f497d" lang=3D"FR">Pascal<u></u><u></u></spa=
n></p>
</div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,sans-serif;color:#1f497d"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></span></p>
<div style=3D"border:none;border-left:solid blue 1.5pt;padding:0cm 0cm 0cm =
4.0pt">
<div>
<div style=3D"border:none;border-top:solid #e1e1e1 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0cm =
0cm 0cm">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><b><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot=
;Calibri&quot;,sans-serif">From:</span></b><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;=
font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,sans-serif"> Roll [mailto:<a href=3D"mailto=
:roll-bounces@ietf.org" target=3D"_blank">roll-bounces@ietf.org</a>]
<b>On Behalf Of </b>Turner, Randy<br>
<b>Sent:</b> mardi 28 juin 2016 17:12<span class=3D""><br>
<b>To:</b> Routing Over Low power and Lossy networks &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:=
roll@ietf.org" target=3D"_blank">roll@ietf.org</a>&gt;<br>
</span></span></p><div><div class=3D"h5"><b>Subject:</b> Re: [Roll] Request=
 for Comments for ROLL Charter<u></u><u></u></div></div><p></p>
</div>
</div><div><div class=3D"h5">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></p>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">+1 just a generalization of my earlier suggestion<br=
>
<br>
R.<u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-bottom:12.0pt"><br>
On Jun 28, 2016, at 10:46 AM, Prof. Diego Dujovne &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:die=
go.dujovne@mail.udp.cl" target=3D"_blank">diego.dujovne@mail.udp.cl</a>&gt;=
 wrote:<u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<blockquote style=3D"margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">
<div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">Pascal, Michael:<u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=
=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=
=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 I agree with Cenk. I think we need some room for
<u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">other ideas. Is it too general to use that phrase?<u=
></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-bottom:12.0pt">Regards,<u></u><u></u=
></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=
=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=
=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=
=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 Diego<u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></p>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">2016-06-28 10:31 GMT-04:00 Cenk G=C3=BCndogan &lt;<a=
 href=3D"mailto:cnkgndgn@gmail.com" target=3D"_blank">cnkgndgn@gmail.com</a=
>&gt;:<u></u><u></u></p>
<blockquote style=3D"border:none;border-left:solid #cccccc 1.0pt;padding:0c=
m 0cm 0cm 6.0pt;margin-left:4.8pt;margin-right:0cm">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">Hello Pascal, Michael,<br>
<br>
Isn&#39;t it too restrictive if we limit the text to the non-storing and st=
oring modes only?<br>
IMO other modes, like the &quot;P2P Route Discovery&quot; mode as defined i=
nRFC6997<br>
and future modes (if planned) could also benefit from those improvements.<b=
r>
<br>
How about:<br>
Additional protocol elements to reduce bytes over the air and/or the amount=
 of accumulated routing states.
<u></u><u></u></p>
<div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><br>
<br>
On 06/28/2016 03:49 PM, Pascal Thubert (pthubert) wrote:<u></u><u></u></p>
<blockquote style=3D"border:none;border-left:solid #cccccc 1.0pt;padding:0c=
m 0cm 0cm 6.0pt;margin-left:4.8pt;margin-right:0cm">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">Pascal Thubert (pthubert) &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:pthu=
bert@cisco.com" target=3D"_blank">pthubert@cisco.com</a>&gt; wrote:<u></u><=
u></u></p>
<blockquote style=3D"border:none;border-left:solid #cccccc 1.0pt;padding:0c=
m 0cm 0cm 6.0pt;margin-left:4.8pt;margin-right:0cm">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">=C2=A0 =C2=A0 &gt; Additional protocol elements to r=
educe source route headers in<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 &gt; non-storing mode and/or memory consumption in storing mo=
de such as<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 &gt; route projection and BIER.<br>
It sounds too prescriptive, as if we have limited ourselves in the charter =
to those two methods.=C2=A0 I don&#39;t think that this is your intention.<=
u></u><u></u></p>
</blockquote>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-bottom:12.0pt">Agreed, Michael. We c=
an bar from &quot; such as ...&quot; on.<br>
<br>
Cheers,<br>
<br>
Pascal<br>
<br>
<u></u><u></u></p>
<blockquote style=3D"border:none;border-left:solid #cccccc 1.0pt;padding:0c=
m 0cm 0cm 6.0pt;margin-left:4.8pt;margin-right:0cm">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-bottom:12.0pt">-----Original Message=
-----<br>
From: Roll [mailto:<a href=3D"mailto:roll-bounces@ietf.org" target=3D"_blan=
k">roll-bounces@ietf.org</a>] On Behalf Of Michael Richardson<br>
Sent: mardi 28 juin 2016 14:47<br>
To: Routing Over Low power and Lossy networks &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:roll@ie=
tf.org" target=3D"_blank">roll@ietf.org</a>&gt;<br>
Cc: peter van der Stok &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:stokcons@xs4all.nl" target=3D"=
_blank">stokcons@xs4all.nl</a>&gt;<br>
Subject: Re: [Roll] Request for Comments for ROLL Charter<br>
<br>
<br>
Pascal Thubert (pthubert) &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:pthubert@cisco.com" target=
=3D"_blank">pthubert@cisco.com</a>&gt; wrote:<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0&gt; Additional protocol elements to reduce source rout=
e headers in<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0&gt; non-storing mode and/or memory consumption in stor=
ing mode such as<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0&gt; route projection and BIER.<br>
<br>
It sounds too prescriptive, as if we have limited ourselves in the charter =
to those<br>
two methods.=C2=A0 I don&#39;t think that this is your intention.<br>
<br>
If you wrote:<br>
<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0&gt; Additional protocol elements to reduce source rout=
e headers in<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0&gt; non-storing mode and/or memory consumption in stor=
ing mode.<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0&gt; These elements may leverage mechanisms such as rou=
te projection and<br>
BIER.<br>
<br>
would be clearer that these are not the only two admissible methods.<br>
I&#39;m not sure that we need to say what the methods are *at all*<br>
<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0&gt; There is a wide scope of application areas for LLN=
s, including<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0&gt; industrial monitoring, building automation (HVAC, =
lighting, access<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0&gt; control, fire), connected homes, health care, envi=
ronmental monitoring,<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0&gt; urban sensor networks (e.g. Smart Grid), asset tra=
cking.=C2=A0 The Working<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0&gt; Group focuses on routing solutions for a subset of=
 these: connected<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0&gt; home, building and urban sensor networks for which=
 routing requirements<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0&gt; have been specified. These application-specific ro=
uting requirement<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0&gt; documents were used for protocol design.<br>
<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0&gt; The Working Group focuses on IPv6 routing architec=
tural framework for<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0&gt; these application scenarios. The Framework will ta=
ke into consideration<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0&gt; various aspects including high reliability in the =
presence of time<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0&gt; varying loss characteristics and connectivity whil=
e permitting<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0&gt; low-power operation with very modest memory and CP=
U pressure in<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0&gt; networks potentially comprising a very large numbe=
r (several thousands)<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0&gt; of nodes.<br>
<br>
I&#39;d like these two paragraphs removed as being ancient motherhood text.=
<br>
<br>
--<br>
Michael Richardson &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:mcr%2BIETF@sandelman.ca" target=3D=
"_blank">mcr+IETF@sandelman.ca</a>&gt;, Sandelman Software Works=C2=A0 -=3D=
<br>
IPv6 IoT consulting =3D-<br>
<br>
<u></u><u></u></p>
</blockquote>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">_______________________________________________<br>
Roll mailing list<br>
<a href=3D"mailto:Roll@ietf.org" target=3D"_blank">Roll@ietf.org</a><br>
<a href=3D"https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/roll" target=3D"_blank">ht=
tps://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/roll</a><u></u><u></u></p>
</blockquote>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><br>
_______________________________________________<br>
Roll mailing list<br>
<a href=3D"mailto:Roll@ietf.org" target=3D"_blank">Roll@ietf.org</a><br>
<a href=3D"https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/roll" target=3D"_blank">ht=
tps://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/roll</a><u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
</div>
</blockquote>
</div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><br>
<br clear=3D"all">
<br>
-- <u></u><u></u></p>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">DIEGO DUJOVNE<br>
Profesor Asociado<br>
Escuela de Inform=C3=A1tica y Telecomunicaciones<br>
Facultad de Ingenier=C3=ADa - Universidad Diego Portales - Chile<br>
<a href=3D"http://www.ingenieria.udp.cl" target=3D"_blank">www.ingenieria.u=
dp.cl</a><br>
(56 2) 676 8125<u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</blockquote>
<blockquote style=3D"margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">_______________________________________________<br>
Roll mailing list<br>
<a href=3D"mailto:Roll@ietf.org" target=3D"_blank">Roll@ietf.org</a><br>
<a href=3D"https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/roll" target=3D"_blank">ht=
tps://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/roll</a><u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
</blockquote>
</div></div></div>
</div>
</div>

<br>_______________________________________________<br>
Roll mailing list<br>
<a href=3D"mailto:Roll@ietf.org">Roll@ietf.org</a><br>
<a href=3D"https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/roll" rel=3D"noreferrer" t=
arget=3D"_blank">https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/roll</a><br>
<br></blockquote></div><br><br clear=3D"all"><br>-- <br><div class=3D"gmail=
_signature" data-smartmail=3D"gmail_signature"><div dir=3D"ltr"><div><div d=
ir=3D"ltr"><div>DIEGO DUJOVNE<br>Profesor Asociado<br>Escuela de Inform=C3=
=A1tica y Telecomunicaciones<br>Facultad de Ingenier=C3=ADa - Universidad D=
iego Portales - Chile<br><a href=3D"http://www.ingenieria.udp.cl" target=3D=
"_blank">www.ingenieria.udp.cl</a><br>(56 2) 676 8125<br></div></div></div>=
</div></div>
</div>

--001a11c3af2efd0a19053658c21c--


From nobody Tue Jun 28 23:56:17 2016
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Date: Wed, 29 Jun 2016 08:56:11 +0200
From: peter van der Stok <stokcons@xs4all.nl>
To: Routing Over Low power and Lossy networks <roll@ietf.org>
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Hi Michael,

> 
>     > There is a wide scope of application areas for LLNs, including
>     > industrial monitoring, building automation (HVAC, lighting, 
> access
>     > control, fire), connected homes, health care, environmental 
> monitoring,
>     > urban sensor networks (e.g. Smart Grid), asset tracking.  The 
> Working
>     > Group focuses on routing solutions for a subset of these: 
> connected
>     > home, building and urban sensor networks for which routing 
> requirements
>     > have been specified. These application-specific routing 
> requirement
>     > documents were used for protocol design.
> 
>     > The Working Group focuses on IPv6 routing architectural framework 
> for
>     > these application scenarios. The Framework will take into 
> consideration
>     > various aspects including high reliability in the presence of 
> time
>     > varying loss characteristics and connectivity while permitting
>     > low-power operation with very modest memory and CPU pressure in
>     > networks potentially comprising a very large number (several 
> thousands)
>     > of nodes.
> 
> I'd like these two paragraphs removed as being ancient motherhood text.
> 
Indeed, I agree, these lines represent history.
However, newcomers should like to know the ROLL history.
And also these lines still reflect on the driving reasons of design 
decisions in the past and decisions to come.

So, I like to preserve them.

Greetings,

peter


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From: peter van der Stok <stokcons@xs4all.nl>
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Hi All,

If I understand correctly the discussion, the proposal is to replace

"Additional protocol to  reduce paths for RPL in non-storing mode."

by

"Additional protocol elements to reduce packet size and/or the amount of 
accumulated routing states."

As a side remark:
I don't like "through the air", Radio also works in vacuum.

Peter



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Hello Peter,

I believe Pascal proposed to keep it in a more generic form 
"improvements to the RPL routing protocol".

Otherwise, read on for my comments regarding the former wording:
I propose we drop any form of uncertainty and change the "and/or" to "and".
Secondly, "packet size" sounds a little bit too generic, how about 
"control packet sizes",
or "RPL related packet sizes"?
Thirdly, would "reduce ... the amount of required routing states"
be a better choice? It hints to a reduction of memory while still 
providing an
operational (converged) DODAG.
The proposed form "reduce ... the amount of accumulated routing states" 
could also
refer to drop states and decrease the quality of the routing protocol 
while doing so.

Cenk

On 06/29/2016 09:05 AM, peter van der Stok wrote:
> Hi All,
>
> If I understand correctly the discussion, the proposal is to replace
>
> "Additional protocol to  reduce paths for RPL in non-storing mode."
>
> by
>
> "Additional protocol elements to reduce packet size and/or the amount 
> of accumulated routing states."
>
> As a side remark:
> I don't like "through the air", Radio also works in vacuum.
+1 (:
>
> Peter
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Roll mailing list
> Roll@ietf.org
> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/roll


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Date: Thu, 30 Jun 2016 11:11:12 +0200
From: peter van der Stok <stokcons@xs4all.nl>
To: Routing Over Low power and Lossy networks <roll@ietf.org>
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Hi Cenk,

thanks for your suggestions.
I cannot refrain from reacting, and see below.

Cenk Gündogan schreef op 2016-06-29 17:04:
> Hello Peter,
> 
> I believe Pascal proposed to keep it in a more generic form
> "improvements to the RPL routing protocol".
> 
> Otherwise, read on for my comments regarding the former wording:
> I propose we drop any form of uncertainty and change the "and/or" to 
> "and".

much better.

> Secondly, "packet size" sounds a little bit too generic, how about
> "control packet sizes",
> or "RPL related packet sizes"?

I was also thinking of the headers, and IP in IP headers; and whatever 
may come; so I prefer packet size (NOT to be confused with payload size)
It looks general and still concrete enough.

> Thirdly, would "reduce ... the amount of required routing states"
> be a better choice? It hints to a reduction of memory while still 
> providing an
> operational (converged) DODAG.
> The proposed form "reduce ... the amount of accumulated routing
> states" could also
> refer to drop states and decrease the quality of the routing protocol
> while doing so.

required it is

> 
> Cenk
> 

Other suggestions or improvements?

If not we send new text on monday/tuesday.

Peter

> On 06/29/2016 09:05 AM, peter van der Stok wrote:
>> Hi All,
>> 
>> If I understand correctly the discussion, the proposal is to replace
>> 
>> "Additional protocol to  reduce paths for RPL in non-storing mode."
>> 
>> by
>> 
>> "Additional protocol elements to reduce packet size and/or the amount 
>> of accumulated routing states."
>> 

