From nobody Mon Sep 1 22:39:03 2014 Return-Path: X-Original-To: rtcweb@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: rtcweb@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id A138D1A7010 for ; Mon, 1 Sep 2014 22:39:00 -0700 (PDT) X-Quarantine-ID: X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Amavis-Alert: BAD HEADER SECTION, Duplicate header field: "MIME-Version" X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -3.151 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-3.151 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_50=0.8, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, MIME_HTML_ONLY=0.723, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_HI=-5, RELAY_IS_203=0.994, RP_MATCHES_RCVD=-0.668, SPF_HELO_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id R34yXDu5LX_d for ; Mon, 1 Sep 2014 22:38:54 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mailout2.samsung.com (mailout2.samsung.com [203.254.224.25]) (using TLSv1 with cipher RC4-MD5 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id D25AB1A7017 for ; Mon, 1 Sep 2014 22:38:53 -0700 (PDT) Received: from epcpsbgr2.samsung.com (u142.gpu120.samsung.co.kr [203.254.230.142]) by mailout2.samsung.com (Oracle Communications Messaging Server 7u4-24.01 (7.0.4.24.0) 64bit (built Nov 17 2011)) with ESMTP id <0NB9008W2ECQZI70@mailout2.samsung.com> for rtcweb@ietf.org; Tue, 02 Sep 2014 14:38:51 +0900 (KST) Received: from epcpsbgx3.samsung.com ( [172.20.52.124]) by epcpsbgr2.samsung.com (EPCPMTA) with SMTP id 7A.2A.04049.9E755045; Tue, 02 Sep 2014 14:38:49 +0900 (KST) X-AuditID: cbfee68e-f79536d000000fd1-e4-540557e9f341 Received: from epmailer02 ( [203.254.219.142]) by epcpsbgx3.samsung.com (EPCPMTA) with SMTP id DE.82.05230.9E755045; Tue, 02 Sep 2014 14:38:49 +0900 (KST) Message-id: Date: Tue, 02 Sep 2014 05:38:49 +0000 (GMT) From: Kiran Kumar Guduru To: "rtcweb@ietf.org" , "public-webrtc@w3.org" MIME-version: 1.0 X-MTR: 20140902052851836@kiran.guduru Msgkey: 20140902052851836@kiran.guduru X-EPLocale: en_US.windows-1252 X-Priority: 3 X-EPWebmail-Msg-Type: personal X-EPWebmail-Reply-Demand: 0 X-EPApproval-Locale: X-EPHeader: ML X-EPTrCode: X-EPTrName: X-MLAttribute: X-RootMTR: 20140902052851836@kiran.guduru X-ParentMTR: X-ArchiveUser: X-CPGSPASS: N MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: multipart/related; boundary="=_NamoWEC-ewn8g269hz" X-Generator: Namo ActiveSquare 7 7.0.0.45 X-Brightmail-Tracker: H4sIAAAAAAAAA+NgFlrGKsWRmVeSWpSXmKPExsWyRsSkRvdlOGuIwfVLfBZr/7WzOzB6LFny kymAMYrLJiU1J7MstUjfLoEr437LD9aCP28ZKy62PmdvYDz9nLGLkZNDSEBdYsPqe2wgtoSA icSJ0+fZIWwxiQv31rNB1CxllFg1UwCm5nXbYaBeLqD4HEaJTS+vMoEkeAUsJKb+2w02lEVA ReLajhNgg9iAGn6dWAMWFxbIktiz4BrYUBGBCInb309BHaEksfbqTVaIOYISJ2c+YYFYpiqx 8fRWdoi4msT2dzOgjpOTWDL1MhOEzSsxo/0pC0x82tc1zBC2tMT5WRsYYZ5Z/P0xVJxf4tjt HUC9HGC9T+4Hw4zZvfkLNBwEJKaeOQjVqiXRv/QA1Hg+iTUL37LAjNl1ajkzTO/9LXOZ0J3P LOAksWPFZKg5mhKPFrWygMJNQuAIh8SvJy3MExiVZiHpQWfD9EPYhhJf5j2GshUlpnQ/ZJ8F 9AKzgJ1E9/dQVGEQW1Wi+e89lgWMHKsYRVMLkguKk9KLjPSKE3OLS/PS9ZLzczcxApPP6X/P +nYw3jxgfYhRgINRiYdX4gdLiBBrYllxZe4hRlNgTE5klhJNzgemuLySeENjMyMLUxNTYyNz SzMlcd4EqZ/BQgLpiSWp2ampBalF8UWlOanFhxiZODilGhidozU1d1RMO1J1v2rntm1/udcf Fm5S032w+GjdltRkYf0Zk8seZLyYWX1usn+i57HKNh0f9VkZ1+/78PNlry6Wlu7umfFio6Tv XQfDfJeykzvWHgg6yTDH44fwRu9FP+w2P2B6pm50Z3HO6U/qq5806+X37V34zL7NZoNMqgpr ToVi9E01JgYlluKMREMt5qLiRAB2VGrmOQMAAA== X-Brightmail-Tracker: H4sIAAAAAAAAA+NgFmphk+LIzCtJLcpLzFFi42I5/e92n+7LcNYQgxdrWCzW/mtnd2D0WLLk J1MAY1SaTUZqYkpqkUJqXnJ+SmZeuq2Sd3C8c7ypmYGhrqGlhbmSQl5ibqqtkotPgK5bZg7Q VCWFssScUqBQQGJxsZK+nU1RfmlJqkJGfnGJrVK0obmRnpGBnqmRnqFprJWhgYGRKVBNQlrG /ZYfrAV/3jJWXGx9zt7AePo5YxcjJ4eQgLrEhtX32EBsCQETiddthxkhbDGJC/fWA8W5gGrm MEpsenmVCSTBK2AhMfXfbrAiFgEViWs7TrCD2GxAzb9OrAGLCwtkSexZcA1sqIhAhMTt76eg lilJrL16kxVijqDEyZlPWCCWqUpsPL2VHSKuJrH93Qx2iLicxJKpl5kgbF6JGe1PWWDi076u YYawpSXOz9oAd/Ti74+h4vwSx27vAOrlAOt9cj8YZszuzV+g/hWQmHrmIFSrlkT/0gNQ4/kk 1ix8ywIzZtep5cwwvfe3zGVCdz6zgJPEjhWToeZoSjxa1MoygVF2FpIydDZMC4RtKPFl3mMo W1FiSvdD9llAVzML2El0fw9FFQaxVSWa/95jWcDIsYpRNLUguaA4Kb3CWK84Mbe4NC9dLzk/ dxMjONU9W7yD8f9560OMAhyMSjy8Ej9YQoRYE8uKK3MPMaoAzXm0YfUFRimWvPy8VCURXlYX 1hAh3pTEyqrUovz4otKc1OJDjKbAOJ7ILCWanA9Mz3kl8YbGJuamxqYWBobm5mZK4rzxt5KC hATSE0tSs1NTC1KLYPqYODilGhg9cx5f8FsuZD93b+cJ3vTFbwXiLu5jYSm2Wbu4/NclrZos xs+3ry+9Nqv9ro/bxNWnLCre3NydIv7Swsx/xoSQam2LfrbCH7rrtY+eeTexSPLR0oq460Vz xEK1/7TOT1nwfzdn4pPXVtXp+9QnGiTFCk7svDD3/tmNVn3l1rd6C849r9qz8uV7JZbijERD Leai4kQAjxF9NpcDAAA= DLP-Filter: Pass X-CFilter-Loop: Reflected Archived-At: http://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/rtcweb/Mu6h1FMJrzjaYDGwdnlfptMmv88 Subject: [rtcweb] Should localDescription and remoteDescription should return NULL, if RTCPeerConnection is closed? 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from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id cbfQiHS-5fP2 for ; Tue, 2 Sep 2014 06:59:17 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail-wi0-x235.google.com (mail-wi0-x235.google.com [IPv6:2a00:1450:400c:c05::235]) (using TLSv1 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-RC4-SHA (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 687931A03F8 for ; Tue, 2 Sep 2014 06:59:17 -0700 (PDT) Received: by mail-wi0-f181.google.com with SMTP id e4so7919835wiv.8 for ; Tue, 02 Sep 2014 06:59:16 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20120113; h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:date:message-id:subject:from:to :cc:content-type; bh=6Kv2vHn9oizEXm4qLIbQUznChY1Gg6Jz97MvTt2eQo0=; b=I9R4sVCmeEb6OrjpPdFESHkQUBGVqHjvjKf4kl41qn0jnvxBwSz27Lil/w5hehsXHI 6MbCwl6l74C5xmBjCGgFc8CV6fQkQjfukKU+0oVPNyS9JKkhlkmkEivg3lWbWhol4mKe DhRaPlTrrUCocQ1Z39E8zpE9E/kSKuUwQkmsey20ZVA1+HzV3z6n71j17o0ZMXmpiUoI 39G7OifWbKZ81TExOo2CizW88clcVu0jaMWjailU4i3Sea1SR4TUTfa4oKkI8/0vfvik slgbszWalQzkOxlBRgD2viKQ1RWlnAdpzoKieFpLafEyP07vPFmgEWmeOoB/ybxZv1Ad ebhw== MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Received: by 10.194.92.71 with SMTP id ck7mr38966327wjb.11.1409666355900; Tue, 02 Sep 2014 06:59:15 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.180.197.168 with HTTP; Tue, 2 Sep 2014 06:59:15 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: References: <7594FB04B1934943A5C02806D1A2204B1D41CDC3@ESESSMB209.ericsson.se> <53F451CF.10705@alvestrand.no> <001b01cfbc94$fccd5310$f667f930$@co.in> <7594FB04B1934943A5C02806D1A2204B1D427B68@ESESSMB209.ericsson.se> <009001cfbe4f$6b92f280$42b8d780$@co.in> Date: Tue, 2 Sep 2014 19:29:15 +0530 Message-ID: From: Muthu Arul Mozhi Perumal To: Martin Thomson Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=047d7bf0d534654d3f050215860b Archived-At: http://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/rtcweb/VoZdSSkVfOwIdl1BWLts7U7Z2Io Cc: "rtcweb@ietf.org" Subject: Re: [rtcweb] WG Last Call for draft-ietf-rtcweb-stun-consent-freshness X-BeenThere: rtcweb@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: Real-Time Communication in WEB-browsers working group list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 02 Sep 2014 13:59:19 -0000 --047d7bf0d534654d3f050215860b Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 On Tue, Aug 26, 2014 at 11:30 PM, Martin Thomson wrote: > On 26 August 2014 07:45, Muthu Arul Mozhi Perumal > wrote: > > Consent freshness is applicable to any WebRTC entity supporting full > ICE. A > > WebRTC browser/device as defined in the transport and overview drafts > > support full ICE, so perform consent freshness. The requirements for > other > > WebRTC entities, including WebRTC gateway, is yet to be fully specified, > and > > the document that specifies them would also specify whether they support > > full ICE or not (and hence whether they perform consent freshness or > not). > > > Actually, that's probably the best approach: note that this applies - > and can be useful for - any ICE implementation. And leave it at that > for this document. The transports or security docs might make some > statements about mandating this mechanism. > draft-ietf-rtcweb-security-arch already does that (the reference there needs an update, though) : The one remaining security property we need to establish is "consent freshness", i.e., allowing Alice to verify that Bob is still prepared to receive her communications so that Alice does not continue to send large traffic volumes to entities which went abruptly offline. ICE specifies periodic STUN keepalizes but only if media is not flowing. Because the consent issue is more difficult here, we require RTCWeb implementations to periodically send keepalives. As described in Section 5.3, these keepalives MUST be based on the consent freshness mechanism specified in [I-D.muthu-behave-consent-freshness]. If a keepalive fails and no new ICE channels can be established, then the session is terminated. Muthu --047d7bf0d534654d3f050215860b Content-Type: text/html; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
On Tu= e, Aug 26, 2014 at 11:30 PM, Martin Thomson <martin.thomson@gmail.com> wrote:
On 26 August 2014 07:45, Muthu Arul Mozhi Perumal <muthu.arul@gmail.com> wrote:
> Consent freshness is applicable to any WebRTC entity supporting full I= CE. A
> WebRTC browser/device as defined in the transport and overview drafts<= br> > support full ICE, so perform consent freshness. The requirements for o= ther
> WebRTC entities, including WebRTC gateway, is yet to be fully specifie= d, and
> the document that specifies them would also specify whether they suppo= rt
> full ICE or not (and hence whether they perform consent freshness or n= ot).


Actually, that's probably the best approach: note that this appli= es -
and can be useful for - any ICE implementation.=C2=A0 And leave it at that<= br> for this document.=C2=A0 The transports or security docs might make some statements about mandating this mechanism.

<= div class=3D"gmail_default" style=3D"font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif= ;font-size:small">draft-ietf-rtcweb-security-arch=C2=A0already does that (t= he reference there needs an update, though) :

   The one remaining security property we need=
 to establish is "consent
   freshness", i.e., allowing Alice to verify that Bob is still prepar=
ed
   to receive her communications so that Alice does not continue to send
   large traffic volumes to entities which went abruptly offline.  ICE
   specifies periodic STUN keepalizes but only if media is not flowing.
   Because the consent issue is more difficult here, we require RTCWeb
   implementations to periodically send keepalives.  As described in
   Section 5.3, these keepalives MUST be based on the consent freshness
   mechanism specified in [I-D.muthu-behave-consent-freshness].  If a
   keepalive fails and no new ICE channels can be established, then the
   session is terminated.
<=
/pre>



Muthu

--047d7bf0d534654d3f050215860b-- From nobody Wed Sep 3 07:01:01 2014 Return-Path: X-Original-To: rtcweb@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: rtcweb@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 173441A032E for ; Wed, 3 Sep 2014 07:00:59 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -0.668 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-0.668 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_20=-0.001, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RP_MATCHES_RCVD=-0.668] autolearn=ham Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 4S2Kfd5B-O2m for ; Wed, 3 Sep 2014 07:00:54 -0700 (PDT) Received: from smtp-p01.blackberry.com (smtp-p01.blackberry.com [208.65.78.88]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 155521A0351 for ; Wed, 3 Sep 2014 07:00:48 -0700 (PDT) Received: from xct101cnc.rim.net ([10.65.161.201]) by mhs210cnc.rim.net with ESMTP/TLS/AES128-SHA; 03 Sep 2014 10:00:47 -0400 Received: from XCT104CNC.rim.net (10.65.161.204) by XCT101CNC.rim.net (10.65.161.201) with Microsoft SMTP Server (TLS) id 14.3.174.1; Wed, 3 Sep 2014 10:00:45 -0400 Received: from XMB111CNC.rim.net ([fe80::fcd6:cc6c:9e0b:25bc]) by XCT104CNC.rim.net ([::1]) with mapi id 14.03.0174.001; Wed, 3 Sep 2014 10:00:45 -0400 From: Gaelle Martin-Cocher To: "rtcweb@ietf.org" Thread-Topic: draft-ietf-rtcweb-video Thread-Index: Ac/GxhE7BIIZV0anTry/g29gGqd+Tg== Date: Wed, 3 Sep 2014 14:00:44 +0000 Message-ID: <92D0D52F3A63344CA478CF12DB0648AA549A1701@XMB111CNC.rim.net> Accept-Language: fr-FR, en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-originating-ip: [10.65.160.250] Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="_000_92D0D52F3A63344CA478CF12DB0648AA549A1701XMB111CNCrimnet_" MIME-Version: 1.0 Archived-At: http://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/rtcweb/2UwKLlN8gm_XPv7_eJbB1QRethg Subject: [rtcweb] draft-ietf-rtcweb-video X-BeenThere: rtcweb@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: Real-Time Communication in WEB-browsers working group list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 03 Sep 2014 14:00:59 -0000 --_000_92D0D52F3A63344CA478CF12DB0648AA549A1701XMB111CNCrimnet_ Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Dear all, I am following up on the discussion and minutes related to the above draft: ITU-T recommendation for accessibility can be found here: http://www.itu.int/rec/T-REC-H.Sup1/en A receiving device should support (at least) the recommended minimum values= . Applicable WebRTC services may follow such recommendations. Video rotation: As discussed there are two already defined methods to inform a receiving de= vice to rotate the video: - One is video format dependent (H264/H265 families) and is achieved by inc= luding an SEI message in the bit-stream -The other is format independent (3GPP-CVO) and was previously proposed to = the list: http://www.ietf.org/mail-archive/web/rtcweb/current/msg08977.html The two bit granularity version of CVO should be enough. To answer the question in the minutes, if CVO is not successfully negotiate= d, SEI (when and if applicable) could still be used. Sincerely, Ga=EBlle --_000_92D0D52F3A63344CA478CF12DB0648AA549A1701XMB111CNCrimnet_ Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

Dear all,

 

I am following up on the discussion and minutes rela= ted to the above draft:

 

ITU-T recommendation for accessibility can be found = here:

h= ttp://www.itu.int/rec/T-REC-H.Sup1/en

A receiving device should support (at least) the rec= ommended minimum values.

Applicable WebRTC services may follow such recommend= ations.

 

 

Video rotation:

As discussed there are two already defined methods t= o inform a receiving device to rotate the video:

- One is video format dependent (H264/H265 families)= and is achieved by including an SEI message in the bit-stream

-The other is format independent (3GPP-CVO) and was = previously proposed to the list: http://www.ietf.org/mail-archive/web/rtcweb/current/msg08977.html

The two bit granularity version of CVO should be eno= ugh.

To answer the question in the minutes, if CVO is not= successfully negotiated, SEI (when and if applicable) could still be used.

 

Sincerely,

Ga=EBlle

 

 

--_000_92D0D52F3A63344CA478CF12DB0648AA549A1701XMB111CNCrimnet_-- From nobody Wed Sep 3 15:34:08 2014 Return-Path: X-Original-To: rtcweb@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: rtcweb@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id B92C31A06FC for ; Wed, 3 Sep 2014 15:34:06 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.046 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.046 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, FM_FORGED_GMAIL=0.622, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RP_MATCHES_RCVD=-0.668, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id D5H0Cv4X0wMi for ; Wed, 3 Sep 2014 15:34:02 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail-vc0-x231.google.com (mail-vc0-x231.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:400c:c03::231]) (using TLSv1 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-RC4-SHA (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 0BD921A0665 for ; Wed, 3 Sep 2014 15:34:00 -0700 (PDT) Received: by mail-vc0-f177.google.com with SMTP id hq11so9691741vcb.36 for ; Wed, 03 Sep 2014 15:34:00 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=google.com; s=20120113; h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:from:date:message-id:subject:to :cc:content-type; bh=qQW5F05249CHf6n7REPDQ5IB5lCkGAq8o/rwbwxIikc=; b=GD4+XmkcF+Ha+kqcA5LWH1H5d5EUE0yiK8L8uufgxlGi6Wk//gWaxxZakQUdoktugC DaARwWBZXGL+kocONNFmt5eT5Ig1D9zPQBkIyhOf9CSAMCh/7TCz/P7ul8GbD4Sgx92u 3vOhkFwVN3RjQHCf3B0DzGVuMU1VzVtew+dFa1VtHHTg/krM3chEWkDJCXP6dXb7k4uR W2sHg7TU1YwTwprMmFtm29MIlB6v+kvQ3+FV5Xd5WmRK7G4KwIhBemCx0rBcfUY+5kNe ArwSUOMaHJMd9jLkVqO+Jo16zlzynaU6PzSDS1neUWtKsWm1bC0+RzKmFob/Jq2qs8Vf n8Bg== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20130820; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:in-reply-to:references:from:date :message-id:subject:to:cc:content-type; bh=qQW5F05249CHf6n7REPDQ5IB5lCkGAq8o/rwbwxIikc=; b=i+YRsxAT70wDWDOQNcNxlg8H/fKmfvTQeM8WT7EIGW18Xoin4ZSekdvRJMzoh7RTZG 7jgyjMqEdmDfdP0Ej98G29hKxEIg3BCvPwZicMKzHwVgO7LAkY5cIYR+0moqmzuMs+Df Ci5Lqw60JRjXIUjzZPtiYyf6diOlvddusfOcuvwUoJQrwv4VN/YDb5pASJg3nOzrTeoH 7yiJbYYNh04/I3MThycX40YDTLQWDodVtUXEZmFog9rkoG4vpwZOx2NQ95YO9sNu0FOU tEEgHsnBku8ueQvYp+2jF644sND5rEVOOrCiaJ0yzFqC0qhffHK2S8S14jblAAaY8j/g vifQ== X-Gm-Message-State: ALoCoQlnGrqwbb/sITM4N3jsKOat6JM7rk1QkiOccG4ZnDwtLPgm1/HbC8gAHTb4+OhmQ2ClH97p X-Received: by 10.220.69.18 with SMTP id x18mr264825vci.58.1409783640070; Wed, 03 Sep 2014 15:34:00 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.52.4.40 with HTTP; Wed, 3 Sep 2014 15:33:39 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: <4F.82.05230.9E755045@epcpsbgx3.samsung.com> References: <4F.82.05230.9E755045@epcpsbgx3.samsung.com> From: Justin Uberti Date: Wed, 3 Sep 2014 15:33:39 -0700 Message-ID: To: Kiran Kumar Guduru Content-Type: multipart/related; boundary=047d7b3a923213d0ef050230d583 Archived-At: http://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/rtcweb/8rpe9txZJxacjwREfAWoJHgTvIk Cc: "rtcweb@ietf.org" , "public-webrtc@w3.org" Subject: Re: [rtcweb] Should localDescription and remoteDescription should return NULL, if RTCPeerConnection is closed? X-BeenThere: rtcweb@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: Real-Time Communication in WEB-browsers working group list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 03 Sep 2014 22:34:06 -0000 --047d7b3a923213d0ef050230d583 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=047d7b3a923213d0eb050230d582 --047d7b3a923213d0eb050230d582 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 The argument that has been made is that web APIs typically don't reset themselves when "closed". As this mostly seems like a matter of style, I'm willing to go along with this if we can find some specific examples in existing APIs. On Mon, Sep 1, 2014 at 10:38 PM, Kiran Kumar Guduru < kiran.guduru@samsung.com> wrote: > Hi, > > In section 4.1.7 and 4.1.8, JSEP draft specifies that localDescription and > remoteDescription should return NULL respectively, if RTCPeerConnection is > closed. > But WebRTC working group discrards it as per the discussion in bug 21082. > (https://www.w3.org/Bugs/Public/show_bug.cgi?id=21082). > > As the two specs are out of sync, it is resulting in confusion. > > IMHO it is good to modify the JSEP draft for the statement. > > > > "A null object will be returned if the local description has not yet > been established, or if the PeerConnection has been closed." > > to > > "A null object will be returned if the local description has not yet > been established." > > > > I would like the know the openion of working group for the same. > > > > Thanks, > > Kiran. > > > > --047d7b3a923213d0eb050230d582 Content-Type: text/html; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
The argument that has been made is that web APIs typically= don't reset themselves when "closed".

As = this mostly seems like a matter of style, I'm willing to go along with = this if we can find some specific examples in existing APIs.


On Mon,= Sep 1, 2014 at 10:38 PM, Kiran Kumar Guduru <kiran.guduru@samsung= .com> wrote:

Hi= ,

In= section 4.1.7 and 4.1.8, JSEP draft specifies that localDescription and re= moteDescription should return NULL respectively, if RTCPeerConnection is cl= osed.
But W= ebRTC working group discrards it as per the discussion in bug 21082.=
(https://www.w3.or= g/Bugs/Public/show_bug.cgi?id=3D21082).

As= the two specs are out of sync, it is resulting in confusion.

IM= HO it is good to modify the JSEP draft for the statement.

=C2=A0

"A null object will be returned if the local description has not yetbeen established, or if the PeerConnection has been closed."

to

"A null object will be returned if the local description has not yetbeen established."

=C2=A0

I = would like the know the openion of working group for the same.

=C2=A0

Th= anks,

Ki= ran.

=C2=A0


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PwtaQYZ2tKQtbSnQh9rUqna1rG2ta18L29jKdra0ra1tb4vb3Op2t7ztrW9/C9zgCne4xP1tCAAA Ow== --047d7b3a923213d0ef050230d583-- From nobody Thu Sep 4 05:13:28 2014 Return-Path: X-Original-To: rtcweb@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: rtcweb@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id C611D1A8887 for ; Thu, 4 Sep 2014 05:13:26 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.899 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.899 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, UNPARSEABLE_RELAY=0.001] autolearn=ham Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id N60tJ2IKboYq for ; Thu, 4 Sep 2014 05:13:25 -0700 (PDT) Received: from relais-inet.francetelecom.com (relais-ias243.francetelecom.com [80.12.204.243]) (using TLSv1 with cipher ADH-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 136551A886B for ; Thu, 4 Sep 2014 05:12:06 -0700 (PDT) Received: from omfeda07.si.francetelecom.fr (unknown [xx.xx.xx.200]) by omfeda10.si.francetelecom.fr (ESMTP service) with ESMTP id 805503742C1; Thu, 4 Sep 2014 14:12:02 +0200 (CEST) Received: from Exchangemail-eme1.itn.ftgroup (unknown [10.114.1.186]) by omfeda07.si.francetelecom.fr (ESMTP service) with ESMTP id 5B366158092; Thu, 4 Sep 2014 14:12:02 +0200 (CEST) Received: from PEXCVZYM14.corporate.adroot.infra.ftgroup ([fe80::a42f:c628:bc76:d592]) by PEXCVZYH01.corporate.adroot.infra.ftgroup ([::1]) with mapi id 14.03.0195.001; Thu, 4 Sep 2014 14:12:02 +0200 From: To: 'Sean Turner' , "'rtcweb@ietf.org'" Thread-Topic: [rtcweb] call for adoption: draft-draft-proust-rtcweb-audio-codecs-for-interop Thread-Index: Ac/IOSWxRGo1zLh0TQCHwQujUlW1ng== Date: Thu, 4 Sep 2014 12:12:01 +0000 Message-ID: <27084_1409832722_54085712_27084_9630_1_2842AD9A45C83B44B57635FD4831E60A0C1AF4A3@PEXCVZYM14.corporate.adroot.infra.ftgroup> Accept-Language: fr-FR, en-US Content-Language: fr-FR X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-originating-ip: [10.197.38.4] Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable MIME-Version: 1.0 X-PMX-Version: 6.0.3.2322014, Antispam-Engine: 2.7.2.2107409, Antispam-Data: 2014.9.4.103924 Archived-At: http://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/rtcweb/wuTA91RdEFCqHlXnmx8xxoEb2m4 Subject: Re: [rtcweb] call for adoption: draft-draft-proust-rtcweb-audio-codecs-for-interop X-BeenThere: rtcweb@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: Real-Time Communication in WEB-browsers working group list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 04 Sep 2014 12:13:26 -0000 Dear Sean, all >>At the RTCWEB session on Thursday there was support for adoption of draft= -proust-rtcweb-audio-codecs-for-interop as an informational WG draft. If y= ou do not support adoption of this draft as a WG draft please respond to th= is email by August 1st. Please also indicate why you do not support WG ado= ption. Considering the support for adoption of draft-proust-rtcweb-audio-codecs-fo= r-interop at last meeting and the deadline for comment set on August 1, Cou= ld the Chairs kindly propose some conclusion regarding this adoption or sug= gest any way forward ? My understanding is that the WG draft status can be a good opportunity to e= nforce the work on this draft to consolidate the list of additional relevan= t codecs for WebRTC interoperability and find for each codec a wording suit= able for everyone. I would like to reiterate that this is just an additional value for WebRTC = specification to better document the use of other codecs with purpose to ex= tend more explicitly the possible "seamless" usage of WebRTC technology on = different systems supporting different codecs with no impact on current Web= RTC usage based on WebRTC mandatory codec whenever legacy interop is not ne= eded. Best regards St=E9phane -----Message d'origine----- De=A0: rtcweb [mailto:rtcweb-bounces@ietf.org] De la part de Sean Turner Envoy=E9=A0: jeudi 24 juillet 2014 21:51 =C0=A0: rtcweb@ietf.org Objet=A0: [rtcweb] call for adoption: draft-draft-proust-rtcweb-audio-codec= s-for-interop At the RTCWEB session on Thursday there was support for adoption of draft-p= roust-rtcweb-audio-codecs-for-interop as an informational WG draft. If you= do not support adoption of this draft as a WG draft please respond to this= email by August 1st. Please also indicate why you do not support WG adopt= ion. spt _______________________________________________ rtcweb mailing list rtcweb@ietf.org https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/rtcweb ___________________________________________________________________________= ______________________________________________ Ce message et ses pieces jointes peuvent contenir des informations confiden= tielles ou privilegiees et ne doivent donc pas etre diffuses, exploites ou copies sans autorisation. Si vous avez recu= ce message par erreur, veuillez le signaler a l'expediteur et le detruire ainsi que les pieces jointes. Les messages el= ectroniques etant susceptibles d'alteration, Orange decline toute responsabilite si ce message a ete altere, deforme ou = falsifie. Merci. This message and its attachments may contain confidential or privileged inf= ormation that may be protected by law; they should not be distributed, used or copied without authorisation. If you have received this email in error, please notify the sender and dele= te this message and its attachments. As emails may be altered, Orange is not liable for messages that have been = modified, changed or falsified. Thank you. From nobody Thu Sep 4 12:56:41 2014 Return-Path: X-Original-To: rtcweb@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: rtcweb@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id A29811A00E1 for ; Thu, 4 Sep 2014 12:56:40 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -115.169 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-115.169 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_HI=-5, RP_MATCHES_RCVD=-0.668, SPF_PASS=-0.001, USER_IN_DEF_DKIM_WL=-7.5, USER_IN_WHITELIST=-100] autolearn=ham Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id A-lPBYTufIP7 for ; Thu, 4 Sep 2014 12:56:38 -0700 (PDT) Received: from alln-iport-2.cisco.com (alln-iport-2.cisco.com [173.37.142.89]) (using TLSv1 with cipher RC4-SHA (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id AAFC41A00AB for ; Thu, 4 Sep 2014 12:56:38 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/simple; d=cisco.com; i=@cisco.com; l=366; q=dns/txt; s=iport; t=1409860598; x=1411070198; h=from:to:cc:subject:date:message-id:references: in-reply-to:content-id:content-transfer-encoding: mime-version; bh=kUC9Q25aPNeu0YpRkiVLCDQmQ/eRZGnAyVMpyHvW4Tk=; b=m6bBpvVFpiiO4Oly/1dQuqY04GwDbP8iEPVxJU5X9DXtSwQMOXTzzTE+ Ri5aCffEgLXC383tmuCM7vzoX0ImQ2BpM2oBk4z0YIdhNThUxRz2y3Q2i NqCy3/6RjdKjwunFmMN77h76YiDoGCNoUadOqSd+4S6l5P2k+0fC7l7u5 g=; X-IronPort-Anti-Spam-Filtered: true X-IronPort-Anti-Spam-Result: AkcFAJzDCFStJV2Z/2dsb2JhbABZgmojgSoEz3QBgQkWd4QEAQEDAR1cBQsCAQhGMiUCBA4FiDoIAb0pARePGjMHgy+BHQEEiniGRosulSKCG4FGbIFIgQcBAQE X-IronPort-AV: E=Sophos;i="5.04,468,1406592000"; d="scan'208";a="75044512" Received: from rcdn-core-2.cisco.com ([173.37.93.153]) by alln-iport-2.cisco.com with ESMTP; 04 Sep 2014 19:56:38 +0000 Received: from xhc-rcd-x08.cisco.com (xhc-rcd-x08.cisco.com [173.37.183.82]) by rcdn-core-2.cisco.com (8.14.5/8.14.5) with ESMTP id s84JucWT006599 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=AES128-SHA bits=128 verify=FAIL); Thu, 4 Sep 2014 19:56:38 GMT Received: from xmb-aln-x02.cisco.com ([fe80::8c1c:7b85:56de:ffd1]) by xhc-rcd-x08.cisco.com ([173.37.183.82]) with mapi id 14.03.0195.001; Thu, 4 Sep 2014 14:56:37 -0500 From: "Cullen Jennings (fluffy)" To: "stephane.proust@orange.com" Thread-Topic: [rtcweb] call for adoption: draft-draft-proust-rtcweb-audio-codecs-for-interop Thread-Index: AQHPyHpWxRVL2Jn/M0+HSGALtVbA4w== Date: Thu, 4 Sep 2014 19:56:37 +0000 Message-ID: References: <27084_1409832722_54085712_27084_9630_1_2842AD9A45C83B44B57635FD4831E60A0C1AF4A3@PEXCVZYM14.corporate.adroot.infra.ftgroup> In-Reply-To: <27084_1409832722_54085712_27084_9630_1_2842AD9A45C83B44B57635FD4831E60A0C1AF4A3@PEXCVZYM14.corporate.adroot.infra.ftgroup> Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-originating-ip: [10.20.249.164] Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-ID: <1A6A69F94515BB4D96A6305D2891AF63@emea.cisco.com> Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable MIME-Version: 1.0 Archived-At: http://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/rtcweb/f3gTTQR2adxfM9dqPZekMYABjn0 Cc: "rtcweb@ietf.org" Subject: Re: [rtcweb] call for adoption: draft-draft-proust-rtcweb-audio-codecs-for-interop X-BeenThere: rtcweb@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: Real-Time Communication in WEB-browsers working group list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 04 Sep 2014 19:56:41 -0000 On Sep 4, 2014, at 6:12 AM, stephane.proust@orange.com wrote: > Could the Chairs kindly propose some conclusion regarding this adoption o= r suggest any way forward ? The chairs call this week did not happen due to some conflicts but I think = the chairs will talk about this next week. We realize the next steps needs = to come the chairs.=20 Cullen From nobody Fri Sep 5 15:45:06 2014 Return-Path: X-Original-To: rtcweb@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: rtcweb@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id E64231A03BE; Fri, 5 Sep 2014 15:45:02 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.9 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.9 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9] autolearn=ham Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id PRFTl7MmPNtN; Fri, 5 Sep 2014 15:45:01 -0700 (PDT) Received: from ietfa.amsl.com (localhost [IPv6:::1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id B13F01A014E; Fri, 5 Sep 2014 15:45:01 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: internet-drafts@ietf.org To: i-d-announce@ietf.org X-Test-IDTracker: no X-IETF-IDTracker: 5.6.2.p6 Auto-Submitted: auto-generated Precedence: bulk Message-ID: <20140905224501.26820.71289.idtracker@ietfa.amsl.com> Date: Fri, 05 Sep 2014 15:45:01 -0700 Archived-At: http://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/rtcweb/RiZvhqaNDevjONcW6_RPBAOAFgw Cc: rtcweb@ietf.org Subject: [rtcweb] I-D Action: draft-ietf-rtcweb-audio-06.txt X-BeenThere: rtcweb@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 List-Id: Real-Time Communication in WEB-browsers working group list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 05 Sep 2014 22:45:03 -0000 A New Internet-Draft is available from the on-line Internet-Drafts directories. This draft is a work item of the Real-Time Communication in WEB-browsers Working Group of the IETF. Title : WebRTC Audio Codec and Processing Requirements Authors : Jean-Marc Valin Cary Bran Filename : draft-ietf-rtcweb-audio-06.txt Pages : 6 Date : 2014-09-05 Abstract: This document outlines the audio codec and processing requirements for WebRTC client application and endpoint devices. The IETF datatracker status page for this draft is: https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-rtcweb-audio/ There's also a htmlized version available at: http://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-rtcweb-audio-06 A diff from the previous version is available at: http://www.ietf.org/rfcdiff?url2=draft-ietf-rtcweb-audio-06 Please note that it may take a couple of minutes from the time of submission until the htmlized version and diff are available at tools.ietf.org. Internet-Drafts are also available by anonymous FTP at: ftp://ftp.ietf.org/internet-drafts/ From nobody Wed Sep 10 09:11:11 2014 Return-Path: X-Original-To: rtcweb@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: rtcweb@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6CFA51A88C8 for ; Wed, 10 Sep 2014 09:11:10 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -6.901 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-6.901 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_HI=-5, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id uolHH3yN3h6e for ; Wed, 10 Sep 2014 09:11:08 -0700 (PDT) Received: from demumfd002.nsn-inter.net (demumfd002.nsn-inter.net [93.183.12.31]) (using TLSv1 with cipher DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id EFA5B1A8780 for ; Wed, 10 Sep 2014 09:10:44 -0700 (PDT) Received: from demuprx017.emea.nsn-intra.net ([10.150.129.56]) by demumfd002.nsn-inter.net (8.14.3/8.14.3) with ESMTP id s8AGAgbm007939 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK) for ; Wed, 10 Sep 2014 16:10:43 GMT Received: from DEMUHTC003.nsn-intra.net ([10.159.42.34]) by demuprx017.emea.nsn-intra.net (8.12.11.20060308/8.12.11) with ESMTP id s8AGAf5L012206 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=AES128-SHA bits=128 verify=FAIL) for ; Wed, 10 Sep 2014 18:10:42 +0200 Received: from DEMUHTC010.nsn-intra.net (10.159.42.41) by DEMUHTC003.nsn-intra.net (10.159.42.34) with Microsoft SMTP Server (TLS) id 14.3.195.1; Wed, 10 Sep 2014 18:10:42 +0200 Received: from DEMUMBX005.nsn-intra.net ([169.254.5.128]) by DEMUHTC010.nsn-intra.net ([10.159.42.41]) with mapi id 14.03.0195.001; Wed, 10 Sep 2014 18:10:42 +0200 From: "Rauschenbach, Uwe (NSN - DE/Munich)" To: "rtcweb@ietf.org" Thread-Topic: Editorial comment on rtcweb -overview draft Thread-Index: Ac/NEcRTaTq1zwMlRhyf8+Qu9cMPxg== Date: Wed, 10 Sep 2014 16:10:41 +0000 Message-ID: <56C2F665D49E0341B9DF5938005ACDF8194901C6@DEMUMBX005.nsn-intra.net> Accept-Language: de-DE, en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-originating-ip: [10.159.42.155] Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable MIME-Version: 1.0 X-purgate-type: clean X-purgate-Ad: Categorized by eleven eXpurgate (R) http://www.eleven.de X-purgate: clean X-purgate: This mail is considered clean (visit http://www.eleven.de for further information) X-purgate-size: 686 X-purgate-ID: 151667::1410365443-00005326-9C393D1F/0/0 Archived-At: http://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/rtcweb/PnL2As0bAkGtnm2C_HEJ_CDstYQ Subject: [rtcweb] Editorial comment on rtcweb -overview draft X-BeenThere: rtcweb@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: Real-Time Communication in WEB-browsers working group list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 10 Sep 2014 16:11:10 -0000 Hi, The -overview draft contains the following text which kind of contradicts i= tself: 2.4. Terminology The following terms are used in this document, and as far as possible across the documents specifying the RTCWEB suite, in the specific meanings given here. Not all terms are used in this document. Other terms are used in their commonly used meaning. Shouldn't this be The following terms are used across the documents specifying the RTCWEB = suite,=20 in the specific meanings given here. Note that not all terms are used i= n this document. =20 Other terms are used in their commonly used meaning. =A0 Kind regards, Uwe=20 From nobody Wed Sep 10 09:28:16 2014 Return-Path: X-Original-To: rtcweb@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: rtcweb@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id C47E41A8960 for ; Wed, 10 Sep 2014 09:28:14 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -3.552 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-3.552 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, RP_MATCHES_RCVD=-1.652] autolearn=ham Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 7i4UmK79ZDPu for ; Wed, 10 Sep 2014 09:28:12 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mork.alvestrand.no (mork.alvestrand.no [158.38.152.117]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id D0C5A1A899B for ; Wed, 10 Sep 2014 09:28:11 -0700 (PDT) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by mork.alvestrand.no (Postfix) with ESMTP id BA1737C3BA0; Wed, 10 Sep 2014 18:28:10 +0200 (CEST) X-Virus-Scanned: Debian amavisd-new at alvestrand.no Received: from mork.alvestrand.no ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (mork.alvestrand.no [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id r4VFnSFE2Fs1; Wed, 10 Sep 2014 18:28:10 +0200 (CEST) Received: from [IPv6:2620:0:1000:167d:f844:bfd8:9417:f4d8] (unknown [IPv6:2620:0:1000:167d:f844:bfd8:9417:f4d8]) by mork.alvestrand.no (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 7379D7C3AB4; Wed, 10 Sep 2014 18:28:09 +0200 (CEST) Message-ID: <54107C15.9010204@alvestrand.no> Date: Wed, 10 Sep 2014 09:28:05 -0700 From: Harald Alvestrand User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; Linux x86_64; rv:31.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/31.0 MIME-Version: 1.0 To: "Rauschenbach, Uwe (NSN - DE/Munich)" , "rtcweb@ietf.org" References: <56C2F665D49E0341B9DF5938005ACDF8194901C6@DEMUMBX005.nsn-intra.net> In-Reply-To: <56C2F665D49E0341B9DF5938005ACDF8194901C6@DEMUMBX005.nsn-intra.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=windows-1252 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Archived-At: http://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/rtcweb/gi8e-wqLpRR3uLu4t4LsgOlt8LQ Subject: Re: [rtcweb] Editorial comment on rtcweb -overview draft X-BeenThere: rtcweb@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: Real-Time Communication in WEB-browsers working group list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 10 Sep 2014 16:28:14 -0000 On 09/10/2014 09:10 AM, Rauschenbach, Uwe (NSN - DE/Munich) wrote: > Hi, > > The -overview draft contains the following text which kind of contradicts itself: > > 2.4. Terminology > > The following terms are used in this document, and as far as possible > across the documents specifying the RTCWEB suite, in the specific > meanings given here. Not all terms are used in this document. Other > terms are used in their commonly used meaning. > > Shouldn't this be > > The following terms are used across the documents specifying the RTCWEB suite, > in the specific meanings given here. Note that not all terms are used in this document. > Other terms are used in their commonly used meaning. > > Kind regards, This makes sense. Thank you. > Uwe > > > _______________________________________________ > rtcweb mailing list > rtcweb@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/rtcweb -- Surveillance is pervasive. Go Dark. From nobody Thu Sep 11 10:34:48 2014 Return-Path: X-Original-To: rtcweb@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: rtcweb@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id D0AF01A898C for ; Thu, 11 Sep 2014 10:34:44 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -116.153 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-116.153 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_HI=-5, RP_MATCHES_RCVD=-1.652, SPF_PASS=-0.001, USER_IN_DEF_DKIM_WL=-7.5, USER_IN_WHITELIST=-100] autolearn=ham Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id hZ-4-Llw85Sq for ; Thu, 11 Sep 2014 10:34:40 -0700 (PDT) Received: from rcdn-iport-2.cisco.com (rcdn-iport-2.cisco.com [173.37.86.73]) (using TLSv1 with cipher RC4-SHA (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 45B601A897D for ; Thu, 11 Sep 2014 10:34:36 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/simple; d=cisco.com; i=@cisco.com; l=488; q=dns/txt; s=iport; t=1410456876; x=1411666476; h=from:to:cc:subject:date:message-id:content-id: content-transfer-encoding:mime-version; bh=09cv8bQMuE1V7wa2OZ20dcVPXk1m/t6weLqu2KTIbYE=; b=VIxvTWhT1rXanwVnmjGivetMyPsEVht8Z76aYZ2HHdUWRkhylF19hZ/G zxrKokZXRN0ffmaTzM1GI1qEqrcDdMhkhWh6fPLte0EGfvVZiNS3w2LA7 cSJKyHoHnYn66Nk3QH5JDz9yRiTNnOrUfVWcA3XGYzsY9UWak2p6HBmnK w=; X-IronPort-Anti-Spam-Filtered: true X-IronPort-Anti-Spam-Result: AgMFAJncEVStJV2a/2dsb2JhbABfgmojgS7QFoESFniECjo/EgE+QicEDohHAb8QARePTYM2gR0FkUuLNpU7g2GCNIEHAQEB X-IronPort-AV: E=Sophos;i="5.04,506,1406592000"; d="scan'208";a="354458222" Received: from rcdn-core-3.cisco.com ([173.37.93.154]) by rcdn-iport-2.cisco.com with ESMTP; 11 Sep 2014 17:34:36 +0000 Received: from xhc-rcd-x01.cisco.com (xhc-rcd-x01.cisco.com [173.37.183.75]) by rcdn-core-3.cisco.com (8.14.5/8.14.5) with ESMTP id s8BHYZvr030920 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=AES128-SHA bits=128 verify=FAIL); Thu, 11 Sep 2014 17:34:35 GMT Received: from xmb-aln-x02.cisco.com ([fe80::8c1c:7b85:56de:ffd1]) by xhc-rcd-x01.cisco.com ([173.37.183.75]) with mapi id 14.03.0195.001; Thu, 11 Sep 2014 12:34:35 -0500 From: "Cullen Jennings (fluffy)" To: Jean-Marc Valin Thread-Topic: Comment on draft-ietf-rtcweb-audio-04 section 6 Thread-Index: AQHPzeanxFn3p2KmNEuqcXGfVFoyag== Date: Thu, 11 Sep 2014 17:34:35 +0000 Message-ID: <67DAC6D9-18CB-433C-B1B8-171A66829B47@cisco.com> Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-originating-ip: [10.20.249.164] Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-ID: <7BE547FDEA531D4BBEEE6323CE0EECA6@emea.cisco.com> Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable MIME-Version: 1.0 Archived-At: http://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/rtcweb/tw1xWd6roNj761M1H84aFNy5RJ0 Cc: "rtcweb@ietf.org" Subject: [rtcweb] Comment on draft-ietf-rtcweb-audio-04 section 6 X-BeenThere: rtcweb@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: Real-Time Communication in WEB-browsers working group list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 11 Sep 2014 17:34:45 -0000 (sent with my individual contributor hat on ) As I was reviewing this draft and I noticed in section 6 that ends with=20 "and legacy phone systems." We have defined legacy phone systems much broader than just things that do = G.711 so to make this correct, I think we need to change this to=20 "and legacy phone systems that support G.711" I don't think this makes any relevant change to the draft but I think the c= hange is needed to make it correct.=20 Cullen From nobody Thu Sep 11 23:12:34 2014 Return-Path: X-Original-To: rtcweb@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: rtcweb@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3C0331A0650 for ; Thu, 11 Sep 2014 23:12:32 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -4.93 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-4.93 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, HELO_MISMATCH_ORG=0.611, HOST_MISMATCH_COM=0.311, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-2.3, RP_MATCHES_RCVD=-1.652] autolearn=ham Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id s41G-c5Wb1Zb for ; Thu, 11 Sep 2014 23:12:29 -0700 (PDT) Received: from smtp.mozilla.org (mx2.corp.phx1.mozilla.com [63.245.216.70]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 5E3111A064C for ; Thu, 11 Sep 2014 23:12:29 -0700 (PDT) Received: from panoramix.jmvalin.ca (modemcable167.97-201-24.mc.videotron.ca [24.201.97.167]) (Authenticated sender: jvalin@mozilla.com) by mx2.mail.corp.phx1.mozilla.com (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 5397CF2309; Thu, 11 Sep 2014 23:12:28 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <54128ECB.9@mozilla.com> Date: Fri, 12 Sep 2014 02:12:27 -0400 From: Jean-Marc Valin User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; Linux x86_64; rv:24.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/24.6.0 MIME-Version: 1.0 To: "Cullen Jennings (fluffy)" References: <67DAC6D9-18CB-433C-B1B8-171A66829B47@cisco.com> In-Reply-To: <67DAC6D9-18CB-433C-B1B8-171A66829B47@cisco.com> X-Enigmail-Version: 1.6 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Archived-At: http://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/rtcweb/9Fv2kfvZv7OTGxf7VsgD4V0Q1GA Cc: "rtcweb@ietf.org" Subject: Re: [rtcweb] Comment on draft-ietf-rtcweb-audio-04 section 6 X-BeenThere: rtcweb@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: Real-Time Communication in WEB-browsers working group list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 12 Sep 2014 06:12:32 -0000 -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 Sounds reasonable. I'll include this in the next update. Cheers, Jean-Marc On 11/09/14 01:34 PM, Cullen Jennings (fluffy) wrote: > > (sent with my individual contributor hat on ) > > As I was reviewing this draft and I noticed in section 6 that ends > with > > "and legacy phone systems." > > We have defined legacy phone systems much broader than just things > that do G.711 so to make this correct, I think we need to change > this to > > "and legacy phone systems that support G.711" > > I don't think this makes any relevant change to the draft but I > think the change is needed to make it correct. > > Cullen > > > -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1 Comment: Using GnuPG with Thunderbird - http://www.enigmail.net/ iQEcBAEBAgAGBQJUEo7IAAoJEJ6/8sItn9q9KIgIAJZ3Y7PH3m98HooV7DkLJBUR t9SYgMiAPlugLts5EXjSaYXi+sSzak3rpQ84jrLI+znVamGtGkyFnHZ0YDR3RUdR hE764TbUvSaS9lc1/pA3l9U1nhmU2Dyo2+snMt9abLZdWMG4ODjYqqnsN4X+CuLc P/bw0/uFZCCaZztdD1OjvipX21+KC4yvrc078sUo/z7kR4m9WSn14kfpWITvePGF 8/edZMP7lBPjmss2pJdi6QvThCe7Em0s7LB0QKHxzo0ZlIN0DqSCXDKH/BcXnUZ6 dGzehciX0HcacdY/XlC1CUOthVoBPP4NtT1wgzKVTtPxM3nKYPCfj7IAZeStS5Y= =zsuX -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- From nobody Fri Sep 12 00:22:41 2014 Return-Path: X-Original-To: rtcweb@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: rtcweb@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 336581A0574 for ; Fri, 12 Sep 2014 00:22:41 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: 0.798 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=0.798 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_50=0.8, SPF_HELO_PASS=-0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id mPcdBbMJ0vMk for ; Fri, 12 Sep 2014 00:22:39 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail1.trendhosting.net (mail1.trendhosting.net [IPv6:2001:67c:1388:1000::5]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher AECDH-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 7AFB61A050E for ; Fri, 12 Sep 2014 00:22:39 -0700 (PDT) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by mail1.trendhosting.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6125215528 for ; Fri, 12 Sep 2014 08:22:37 +0100 (BST) Received: from mail1.trendhosting.net ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (thp003.trendhosting.net [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with LMTP id Wvm0dBte8IUW for ; Fri, 12 Sep 2014 08:22:35 +0100 (BST) Message-ID: <54129F3A.4020907@pocock.pro> Date: Fri, 12 Sep 2014 09:22:34 +0200 From: Daniel Pocock User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; Linux x86_64; rv:24.0) Gecko/20100101 Icedove/24.7.0 MIME-Version: 1.0 To: rtcweb@ietf.org X-Enigmail-Version: 1.6 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Archived-At: http://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/rtcweb/d5Ak7EHr0o6JfOaGO2wmtZK23RU Subject: [rtcweb] WebRTC gathering Norfolk, 15 October 2014 X-BeenThere: rtcweb@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: Real-Time Communication in WEB-browsers working group list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 12 Sep 2014 07:22:41 -0000 15 October, there will be two events of interest to the WebRTC community, looking at some practical open source implementations: 17:30 a technical / developer workshop at xTuple's offices - free, anybody welcome, even if not attending xTupleCon, RSVP through Eventbrite[1] 14:15 a talk about the xTuple WebRTC extension at xTupleCon - must register for xTupleCon to attend this Please see my blog[2] for more comments about all of this and feel free to email me in advance if you have questions about it or ideas for the workshop. 1. http://www.eventbrite.com/e/browser-based-webrtc-telephony-for-web-apps-workshop-tickets-13002257101 2. http://danielpocock.com/xtuplecon-webrtc-talk-schedule-change From nobody Sat Sep 13 04:47:41 2014 Return-Path: X-Original-To: rtcweb@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: rtcweb@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id B49E71A8857 for ; Sat, 13 Sep 2014 04:47:38 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.999 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.999 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id O-GwnJhXM00a for ; Sat, 13 Sep 2014 04:47:37 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail-la0-x235.google.com (mail-la0-x235.google.com [IPv6:2a00:1450:4010:c03::235]) (using TLSv1 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-RC4-SHA (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 005BA1A885B for ; Sat, 13 Sep 2014 04:47:36 -0700 (PDT) Received: by mail-la0-f53.google.com with SMTP id ge10so2266379lab.26 for ; Sat, 13 Sep 2014 04:47:35 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20120113; h=mime-version:date:message-id:subject:from:to:content-type; bh=i2GC6++MTTagzjivH0hrZ+7uaRAlYJD/FtB+jcA7e8E=; b=cczaqwa9BGYpRrtFrmPwfaWMcGXHHjX9dAsvgNmcQzn4YIR1ylzUezigIqWLZFxZNa 2K70/Jk/jq0pzcPjqNygl3j2c9HYgpVV1cqaPDyB+USy7Vs9dH+PBooikijThytT3kY1 qX7aVScoR5Y90rttPI6a0VmpOxQS0thShdph3gHmn05Jz++1IUZM+rj5BpwMA2Gwcfsa hiwrNCyniGu3fzKvMuBWmwlwoZGXHE5CSUgVDK5vA1NQ+lqFJds6ZEW7RsC57eZ+amaP ADZ4zSYjI3bjL2Y8VEaXdwprefM2Ab3k478TGMHnLPh9B1sx3noRLkFNcPeUTAHHG/6S 6uRw== MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Received: by 10.152.4.194 with SMTP id m2mr1893452lam.63.1410608855101; Sat, 13 Sep 2014 04:47:35 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.152.210.103 with HTTP; Sat, 13 Sep 2014 04:47:35 -0700 (PDT) Date: Sat, 13 Sep 2014 17:17:35 +0530 Message-ID: From: Rajmohan Banavi To: "rtcweb@ietf.org" Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=089e013d1742b9b6010502f0f742 Archived-At: http://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/rtcweb/7Idd6w7oGJuA5WUgGZR54Vyrbao Subject: [rtcweb] Comments on draft-ietf-rtcweb-stun-consent-freshness-06 X-BeenThere: rtcweb@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: Real-Time Communication in WEB-browsers working group list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sat, 13 Sep 2014 11:47:38 -0000 --089e013d1742b9b6010502f0f742 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Comments on draft-ietf-rtcweb-stun-consent-freshness-06 1. Sec 4.1 mentions that the stun binding request should regenerate a new cryptographically random [RFC4086] STUN transaction ID. Since consent is another STUN usage, the mechanism on how the transaction id is generated for every new transaction is specified in the STUN RFC 5389. So is it necessary to specify here? Further, STUN RFC does not reference [RFC4086]. 2. Sec 4.1 mentions that "During ICE restart consent MUST continue to be sent on previously validated pair". It is possible that there might be multiple valid pairs especially in case of aggressive nomination. It make sense to make use of "nominated pair" instead of "validated pair". 3. Trivial one - It is often mentioned that consent must be performed by WebRTC implementations. Is there any limiting it to WebRTC? 4. Sec 2 - It is mentioned that consent and consent freshness are sent to "certain" transport address. It should be peer transport address. In other sections within the doc, it is properly mentioned as "peer" transport address. Cheers, Rajmohan --089e013d1742b9b6010502f0f742 Content-Type: text/html; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Comments on draft-ietf-rtcweb-stun-consent-freshness-06
  1. Sec 4.1 mentions that the stun binding request should regenerate = a new cryptographically random [RFC4086] STUN transaction ID. Since consent= is another STUN usage, the mechanism on how the transaction id is generate= d for every new transaction is specified in the STUN RFC 5389. So is it nec= essary to specify here? Further, STUN RFC does not reference [RFC4086].
  2. Sec 4.1 mentions that "During ICE restart consent MUST continue t= o be sent on previously validated pair". It is possible that there mig= ht be multiple valid pairs especially in case of aggressive nomination. It = make sense to make use of "nominated pair" instead of "valid= ated pair".
  3. Trivial one - It is often mentioned that consent m= ust be performed by WebRTC implementations. Is there any limiting it to Web= RTC?
  4. Sec 2 - It is mentioned that consent and consent freshness are= sent to "certain" transport address. It should be peer transport= address. In other sections within the doc, it is properly mentioned as &qu= ot;peer" transport address.
Cheers,
Rajmohan
<= div>
--089e013d1742b9b6010502f0f742-- From nobody Sun Sep 14 22:07:45 2014 Return-Path: X-Original-To: rtcweb@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: rtcweb@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id F19641A065A for ; Sun, 14 Sep 2014 22:07:37 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.999 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.999 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id LWtkYJQ5WGTl for ; Sun, 14 Sep 2014 22:07:36 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail-wg0-x22a.google.com (mail-wg0-x22a.google.com [IPv6:2a00:1450:400c:c00::22a]) (using TLSv1 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-RC4-SHA (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id A445B1A065F for ; Sun, 14 Sep 2014 22:07:31 -0700 (PDT) Received: by mail-wg0-f42.google.com with SMTP id x12so3206700wgg.1 for ; Sun, 14 Sep 2014 22:07:30 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20120113; h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:date:message-id:subject:from:to :cc:content-type; bh=iCnCZv172XGKQp/Iw1uQuxJgVTcm+94lU+Wl34gWTLA=; b=scyoK6kFmDONXlgIpE4vCCJFITY7DEiDldAxH2d1kJlswEXl63amwKEA8Iqcj0ApLf 10y6MDYiqzAhyGIlvVY3gtpbpjuVlbcsoo6X2sC9rsitSUmtGmyYQzpDzPzTyhsV1gxa F38C/HXaXJezEhhfg5K529wqxVfdnWkUkQmfsQB9nt8URyPV6EUYA4cHAJH76cW4MHu/ A3Flm0G+eXVuJgO7zy9dybW+/lYSP78kA19lHvQH4o4kzw8H+o4p2EiHeY/ddCOIs9B+ n7tqJlTbsRRPHTlnEkjFd4aYtdsb0A/VlJFMexr98IxqJtKQcJQS/UmBKdYrHWAvexQR lYIA== MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Received: by 10.180.10.38 with SMTP id f6mr20243905wib.30.1410757650026; Sun, 14 Sep 2014 22:07:30 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.180.197.168 with HTTP; Sun, 14 Sep 2014 22:07:29 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: References: Date: Mon, 15 Sep 2014 10:37:29 +0530 Message-ID: From: Muthu Arul Mozhi Perumal To: Rajmohan Banavi Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=001a11c25d089814b70503139c6d Archived-At: http://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/rtcweb/p82f2fatTSNl0OQ9MhLBGX9PKtI Cc: "rtcweb@ietf.org" Subject: Re: [rtcweb] Comments on draft-ietf-rtcweb-stun-consent-freshness-06 X-BeenThere: rtcweb@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: Real-Time Communication in WEB-browsers working group list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 15 Sep 2014 05:07:38 -0000 --001a11c25d089814b70503139c6d Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Thanks for the comments. Please see inline.. On Sat, Sep 13, 2014 at 5:17 PM, Rajmohan Banavi wrote: > Comments on draft-ietf-rtcweb-stun-consent-freshness-06 > > 1. Sec 4.1 mentions that the stun binding request should regenerate a > new cryptographically random [RFC4086] STUN transaction ID. Since cons= ent > is another STUN usage, the mechanism on how the transaction id is gene= rated > for every new transaction is specified in the STUN RFC 5389. So is it > necessary to specify here? Further, STUN RFC does not reference [RFC40= 86]. > > =E2=80=8BI see no harm. Also, I think RFC5389 missed to reference RFC4086= =E2=80=8Bon the cryptographic randomness of the transaction ID (should probably go into ICE-bis), as can be seen from all references to RFC4086: http://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/rfc4086/referencedby/?full=3DTrue > > 1. Sec 4.1 mentions that "During ICE restart consent MUST continue to > be sent on previously validated pair". It is possible that there might= be > multiple valid pairs especially in case of aggressive nomination. It m= ake > sense to make use of "nominated pair" instead of "validated pair". > > =E2=80=8BAgree.=E2=80=8B > > 1. Trivial one - It is often mentioned that consent must be performed > by WebRTC implementations. Is there any limiting it to WebRTC? > > =E2=80=8BThis was discussed earlier and we are addressing it in the next = revision.=E2=80=8B > > 1. Sec 2 - It is mentioned that consent and consent freshness are sent > to "certain" transport address. It should be peer transport address. I= n > other sections within the doc, it is properly mentioned as "peer" tran= sport > address. > > =E2=80=8BThis the terminology section and I see no harm in the terminolog= y being slightly generic.. Muthu=E2=80=8B > Cheers, > Rajmohan > > > _______________________________________________ > rtcweb mailing list > rtcweb@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/rtcweb > > --001a11c25d089814b70503139c6d Content-Type: text/html; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Thanks for the comments. Please see inl= ine..

On Sat= , Sep 13, 2014 at 5:17 PM, Rajmohan Banavi <rajmohanbanavi@gmail.co= m> wrote:
Comments on dr= aft-ietf-rtcweb-stun-consent-freshness-06
  1. Sec 4.1 mentions that= the stun binding request should regenerate a new cryptographically random = [RFC4086] STUN transaction ID. Since consent is another STUN usage, the mec= hanism on how the transaction id is generated for every new transaction is = specified in the STUN RFC 5389. So is it necessary to specify here? Further= , STUN RFC does not reference [RFC4086].
=
=E2=80=8BI see no harm. Also, I think RFC5389 misse= d to reference RFC4086 =E2=80=8Bon the cryptographic randomness of the tran= saction ID (should probably go into ICE-bis), as can be seen from all refer= ences to RFC4086: http://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/rfc4086/referencedby/?= full=3DTrue
  1. S= ec 4.1 mentions that "During ICE restart consent MUST continue to be s= ent on previously validated pair". It is possible that there might be = multiple valid pairs especially in case of aggressive nomination. It make s= ense to make use of "nominated pair" instead of "validated p= air".
=E2=80=8BAgree.=E2=80=8B
=C2=A0
  1. Trivial one - It is often mentioned that consent mus= t be performed by WebRTC implementations. Is there any limiting it to WebRT= C?
=E2=80=8BThis was discussed earlier and we are addressing it in the next r= evision.=E2=80=8B
=C2=A0
=
  1. Sec 2 - It is mentioned that consent and consent freshness are sent= to "certain" transport address. It should be peer transport addr= ess. In other sections within the doc, it is properly mentioned as "pe= er" transport address.
=E2=80=8BThis the terminology section and I see no harm in the t= erminology being slightly generic..

Muthu=E2=80=8B

=C2=A0
Cheers,
Rajmohan


_______________________________________________
rtcweb mailing list
rtcweb@ietf.org
= https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/rtcweb


--001a11c25d089814b70503139c6d-- From nobody Mon Sep 15 16:04:09 2014 Return-Path: X-Original-To: rtcweb@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: rtcweb@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3CCCA1A8859; Mon, 15 Sep 2014 16:04:07 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.9 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.9 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9] autolearn=ham Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id eQHuvXRoFm6a; Mon, 15 Sep 2014 16:04:06 -0700 (PDT) Received: from ietfa.amsl.com (localhost [IPv6:::1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 027241A885B; Mon, 15 Sep 2014 16:04:06 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: internet-drafts@ietf.org To: i-d-announce@ietf.org X-Test-IDTracker: no X-IETF-IDTracker: 5.6.2.p6 Auto-Submitted: auto-generated Precedence: bulk Message-ID: <20140915230406.549.47576.idtracker@ietfa.amsl.com> Date: Mon, 15 Sep 2014 16:04:06 -0700 Archived-At: http://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/rtcweb/7bBUBBq2wr8f89ua7wtisPuCU9o Cc: rtcweb@ietf.org Subject: [rtcweb] I-D Action: draft-ietf-rtcweb-stun-consent-freshness-07.txt X-BeenThere: rtcweb@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 List-Id: Real-Time Communication in WEB-browsers working group list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 15 Sep 2014 23:04:07 -0000 A New Internet-Draft is available from the on-line Internet-Drafts directories. This draft is a work item of the Real-Time Communication in WEB-browsers Working Group of the IETF. Title : STUN Usage for Consent Freshness Authors : Muthu Arul Mozhi Perumal Dan Wing Ram Mohan Ravindranath Tirumaleswar Reddy Martin Thomson Filename : draft-ietf-rtcweb-stun-consent-freshness-07.txt Pages : 9 Date : 2014-09-15 Abstract: To prevent sending excessive traffic to an endpoint, periodic consent needs to be obtained from that remote endpoint. This document describes a consent mechanism using a new Session Traversal Utilities for NAT (STUN) usage. This same mechanism can also determine connection loss ("liveness") with a remote peer. The IETF datatracker status page for this draft is: https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-rtcweb-stun-consent-freshness/ There's also a htmlized version available at: http://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-rtcweb-stun-consent-freshness-07 A diff from the previous version is available at: http://www.ietf.org/rfcdiff?url2=draft-ietf-rtcweb-stun-consent-freshness-07 Please note that it may take a couple of minutes from the time of submission until the htmlized version and diff are available at tools.ietf.org. Internet-Drafts are also available by anonymous FTP at: ftp://ftp.ietf.org/internet-drafts/ From nobody Mon Sep 15 16:11:52 2014 Return-Path: X-Original-To: rtcweb@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: rtcweb@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id CE9D81A87E8 for ; Mon, 15 Sep 2014 16:11:49 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -15.853 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-15.853 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, MIME_8BIT_HEADER=0.3, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_HI=-5, RP_MATCHES_RCVD=-1.652, SPF_PASS=-0.001, USER_IN_DEF_DKIM_WL=-7.5] autolearn=ham Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id tSxfITkbdbYY for ; Mon, 15 Sep 2014 16:11:48 -0700 (PDT) Received: from rcdn-iport-3.cisco.com (rcdn-iport-3.cisco.com [173.37.86.74]) (using TLSv1 with cipher RC4-SHA (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 954A01A8785 for ; Mon, 15 Sep 2014 16:11:48 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/simple; d=cisco.com; i=@cisco.com; l=592; q=dns/txt; s=iport; t=1410822708; x=1412032308; h=mime-version:subject:from:in-reply-to:date:cc: content-transfer-encoding:message-id:references:to; bh=yihQNLq46ZxVvRL1vey9vp7sSRzCLtg86XaAk3VKni4=; b=XaWwoMqyuwaU351jcn+6lRkW9uwH0Aj8rM31yK3WNealzXnAfJX/Qcpp kH6RIuq6LwfT6yVsTq4S5CKUguDHF9D10Kwx3v631gFcgsYP7etn979Od BAsRK510lti6GRp0vJ+ZQwGhkuRHwkLssoJELycYYTr48gfyZ4cCwMWOX Q=; X-IronPort-AV: E=Sophos;i="5.04,531,1406592000"; d="scan'208";a="355487656" Received: from rcdn-core-3.cisco.com ([173.37.93.154]) by rcdn-iport-3.cisco.com with ESMTP; 15 Sep 2014 23:11:48 +0000 Received: from [10.21.77.220] ([10.21.77.220]) by rcdn-core-3.cisco.com (8.14.5/8.14.5) with ESMTP id s8FNBioe007947 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=AES128-SHA bits=128 verify=NO); Mon, 15 Sep 2014 23:11:46 GMT Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 7.3 \(1878.6\)) From: =?utf-8?Q?=F0=9F=94=93Dan_Wing?= In-Reply-To: Date: Mon, 15 Sep 2014 16:11:45 -0700 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Message-Id: References: To: Ted Hardie X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.1878.6) Archived-At: http://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/rtcweb/RKmLfGHuaRCBerGEO_Xs28iLFvg Cc: Cullen Jennings , "rtcweb@ietf.org" , draft-ietf-rtcweb-stun-consent-freshness@tools.ietf.org Subject: Re: [rtcweb] WG Last Call for draft-ietf-rtcweb-stun-consent-freshness X-BeenThere: rtcweb@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: Real-Time Communication in WEB-browsers working group list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 15 Sep 2014 23:11:50 -0000 On Aug 14, 2014, at 8:10 AM, Ted Hardie wrote: > This starts a WG Last Call for = draft-ietf-rtcweb-stun-consent-freshness (available at = http://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-rtcweb-stun-consent-freshness/)= . Please review the document and send comments to the list by September = 10, 2014. We just submitted -07 which addresses the WGLC comments received. https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-rtcweb-stun-consent-freshness-07 side-by-side diffs: = https://tools.ietf.org/rfcdiff?url2=3Ddraft-ietf-rtcweb-stun-consent-fresh= ness-07.txt -d From nobody Tue Sep 16 05:05:41 2014 Return-Path: X-Original-To: rtcweb@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: rtcweb@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4A28D1A0696 for ; Tue, 16 Sep 2014 05:05:40 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.678 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.678 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, FM_FORGED_GMAIL=0.622, MIME_8BIT_HEADER=0.3, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW=-0.7] autolearn=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id k_vMwn7Mr2Rc for ; Tue, 16 Sep 2014 05:05:39 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail-qa0-f54.google.com (mail-qa0-f54.google.com [209.85.216.54]) (using TLSv1 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-RC4-SHA (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id F1B861A0669 for ; Tue, 16 Sep 2014 05:05:38 -0700 (PDT) Received: by mail-qa0-f54.google.com with SMTP id v10so5476273qac.27 for ; Tue, 16 Sep 2014 05:05:38 -0700 (PDT) X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20130820; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:in-reply-to:references:from:date :message-id:subject:to:cc:content-type:content-transfer-encoding; bh=nRqrEk7C9jzCdVeJQCtEL240uEwcidfagVcrH4GgthE=; b=m35U3YzwjA3FvZvZK3LUz/OIYM7nFvkbZjaJ8EBtkGr7dzKcfE3ZmgfyNhCg8bsNPY a0VdJs3dKp/JZH3joYKrX5p/UCxX4U9ctmY/x/9L94kzRFvMJQdgAh4VzJ8FfxVoNEOI tVErEdvm98VVNKpOvAoiZ8tNNT5dUgqeQv+NKAyz0hXuA+qHsUtMFNanbls8AWIda2bb HzNi7gfhl0lkTctSXLIKRVuKlgN9UIPI5eDIWL5UaEuR8NRHhmHy/DCHslKjY/deHfEn jN/HfmZVfqH0yJybaHIsOqXvaKCm54NUSvSlI6U4vODMFmS2SS2+uCi2o5UXsPUkY3IU VewA== X-Gm-Message-State: ALoCoQltL9GXkraVrLnUQ/Ul6zccAP9R/U1vqxVXYVzI75xwJsBHi7ZyfzcP371L/okBA1DGJFWn X-Received: by 10.224.161.140 with SMTP id r12mr46238196qax.74.1410869137916; Tue, 16 Sep 2014 05:05:37 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.96.69.200 with HTTP; Tue, 16 Sep 2014 05:05:17 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: References: <7594FB04B1934943A5C02806D1A2204B1D41CDC3@ESESSMB209.ericsson.se> <53F451CF.10705@alvestrand.no> <001b01cfbc94$fccd5310$f667f930$@co.in> <7594FB04B1934943A5C02806D1A2204B1D427B68@ESESSMB209.ericsson.se> <009001cfbe4f$6b92f280$42b8d780$@co.in> From: =?UTF-8?Q?I=C3=B1aki_Baz_Castillo?= Date: Tue, 16 Sep 2014 14:05:17 +0200 Message-ID: To: Martin Thomson Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Archived-At: http://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/rtcweb/V-76G0EUjmXlSeK-BRP53vl0z1c Cc: "rtcweb@ietf.org" Subject: Re: [rtcweb] WG Last Call for draft-ietf-rtcweb-stun-consent-freshness X-BeenThere: rtcweb@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: Real-Time Communication in WEB-browsers working group list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 16 Sep 2014 12:05:40 -0000 2014-08-25 19:15 GMT+02:00 Martin Thomson : > Any WebRTC entity MUST implement full ICE Why? In server side implementing ICE-Lite is really operational and *easier= *. Please, don't drop ICE-Lite. --=20 I=C3=B1aki Baz Castillo From nobody Tue Sep 16 14:09:55 2014 Return-Path: X-Original-To: rtcweb@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: rtcweb@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id B1ABE1A0390 for ; Tue, 16 Sep 2014 14:09:53 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: 0.332 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=0.332 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_20=-0.001, IP_NOT_FRIENDLY=0.334, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id I7fOJEO9CrAa for ; Tue, 16 Sep 2014 14:09:53 -0700 (PDT) Received: from gateway05.websitewelcome.com (gateway05.websitewelcome.com [67.18.103.7]) (using TLSv1 with cipher ADH-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id F14A91A0383 for ; Tue, 16 Sep 2014 14:09:52 -0700 (PDT) Received: by gateway05.websitewelcome.com (Postfix, from userid 5007) id 5E87EA4591279; Tue, 16 Sep 2014 16:09:52 -0500 (CDT) Received: from gator3286.hostgator.com (gator3286.hostgator.com [198.57.247.250]) by gateway05.websitewelcome.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4CF3CA459120B for ; Tue, 16 Sep 2014 16:09:52 -0500 (CDT) Received: from [198.180.150.142] (port=50893 helo=v142.vpn.iad.rg.net) by gator3286.hostgator.com with esmtpsa (TLSv1:AES128-SHA:128) (Exim 4.82) (envelope-from ) id 1XU00V-0006sp-Kn for rtcweb@ietf.org; Tue, 16 Sep 2014 16:09:51 -0500 From: Sean Turner Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Message-Id: <3C9B46EC-2071-451D-AF59-50891286672E@ieca.com> Date: Tue, 16 Sep 2014 17:09:49 -0400 To: rtcweb@ietf.org Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 7.3 \(1878.6\)) X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.1878.6) X-AntiAbuse: This header was added to track abuse, please include it with any abuse report X-AntiAbuse: Primary Hostname - gator3286.hostgator.com X-AntiAbuse: Original Domain - ietf.org X-AntiAbuse: Originator/Caller UID/GID - [47 12] / [47 12] X-AntiAbuse: Sender Address Domain - ieca.com X-BWhitelist: no X-Source-IP: 198.180.150.142 X-Exim-ID: 1XU00V-0006sp-Kn X-Source: X-Source-Args: X-Source-Dir: X-Source-Sender: (v142.vpn.iad.rg.net) [198.180.150.142]:50893 X-Source-Auth: sean.turner@ieca.com X-Email-Count: 5 X-Source-Cap: ZG9tbWdyNDg7ZG9tbWdyNDg7Z2F0b3IzMjg2Lmhvc3RnYXRvci5jb20= Archived-At: http://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/rtcweb/Rr9k035fTrvOoLV2zrtPP5CF2aM Subject: [rtcweb] WG adoption: draft-proust-rtcweb-audio-codecs-for-interop X-BeenThere: rtcweb@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: Real-Time Communication in WEB-browsers working group list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 16 Sep 2014 21:09:53 -0000 Howdy, After reviewing the working group discussion at our last face-to-face = meeting and the subsequent on-list discussion, the chairs believe that = there is rough consensus to adopt = draft-proust-rtcweb-audio-codecs-for-interop as an Informational = document aiming to identify which codecs may allow transcoding-free = interoperability with deployed systems. All normative requirements for = which codecs WebRTC implementations must support will remain in = draft-ietf-rtcweb-audio-codec. Ted, Cullen, Sean= From nobody Tue Sep 16 18:25:16 2014 Return-Path: X-Original-To: rtcweb@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: rtcweb@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id B95FE1A047C for ; Tue, 16 Sep 2014 18:25:01 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -3.552 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-3.552 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, RP_MATCHES_RCVD=-1.652] autolearn=ham Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id JiceTycSmmKa for ; Tue, 16 Sep 2014 18:24:59 -0700 (PDT) Received: from smtp-fr.alcatel-lucent.com (fr-hpgre-esg-01.alcatel-lucent.com [135.245.210.22]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id B1A981A005C for ; Tue, 16 Sep 2014 18:24:59 -0700 (PDT) Received: from fr711usmtp1.zeu.alcatel-lucent.com (unknown [135.239.2.122]) by Websense Email Security Gateway with ESMTPS id E5B9A71AD93CC; Wed, 17 Sep 2014 01:24:57 +0000 (GMT) Received: from FR711WXCHHUB01.zeu.alcatel-lucent.com (fr711wxchhub01.zeu.alcatel-lucent.com [135.239.2.111]) by fr711usmtp1.zeu.alcatel-lucent.com (GMO) with ESMTP id s8H1OvHw007563 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=AES128-SHA bits=128 verify=FAIL); Wed, 17 Sep 2014 03:24:58 +0200 Received: from FR712WXCHMBA11.zeu.alcatel-lucent.com ([169.254.7.71]) by FR711WXCHHUB01.zeu.alcatel-lucent.com ([135.239.2.111]) with mapi id 14.03.0195.001; Wed, 17 Sep 2014 03:24:57 +0200 From: "DRAGE, Keith (Keith)" To: Sean Turner , "rtcweb@ietf.org" Thread-Topic: [rtcweb] WG adoption: draft-proust-rtcweb-audio-codecs-for-interop Thread-Index: AQHP0fKT6iHiqzg7nUekKCUJjQugUJwEYXCA Date: Wed, 17 Sep 2014 01:24:57 +0000 Message-ID: <949EF20990823C4C85C18D59AA11AD8B236039@FR712WXCHMBA11.zeu.alcatel-lucent.com> References: <3C9B46EC-2071-451D-AF59-50891286672E@ieca.com> In-Reply-To: <3C9B46EC-2071-451D-AF59-50891286672E@ieca.com> Accept-Language: en-GB, en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-originating-ip: [135.239.27.39] Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable MIME-Version: 1.0 Archived-At: http://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/rtcweb/ZjNQ8GyGmYnGRENawfzYVGsktsc Subject: Re: [rtcweb] WG adoption: draft-proust-rtcweb-audio-codecs-for-interop X-BeenThere: rtcweb@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: Real-Time Communication in WEB-browsers working group list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 17 Sep 2014 01:25:01 -0000 OK, so could I have an explanation of what the following means: "All normative requirements for which codecs WebRTC implementations must su= pport will remain in draft-ietf-rtcweb-audio-codec." Does this refer to the codecs that webrtc MUST support only, or does it als= o refer to mandatory requirements of a specific codec that is supported (bu= t not mandatory to implement).=20 And do any optional requirements of mandatory to implement codecs remain in= draft-ietf-rtcweb-audio-codec, or do they go to the new document. Regards Keith > -----Original Message----- > From: rtcweb [mailto:rtcweb-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of Sean Turner > Sent: 16 September 2014 22:10 > To: rtcweb@ietf.org > Subject: [rtcweb] WG adoption:=20 > draft-proust-rtcweb-audio-codecs-for-interop >=20 > Howdy, >=20 > After reviewing the working group discussion at our last=20 > face-to-face meeting and the subsequent on-list discussion,=20 > the chairs believe that there is rough consensus to adopt=20 > draft-proust-rtcweb-audio-codecs-for-interop as an=20 > Informational document aiming to identify which codecs may=20 > allow transcoding-free interoperability with deployed=20 > systems. All normative requirements for which codecs WebRTC=20 > implementations must support will remain in =20 > draft-ietf-rtcweb-audio-codec. >=20 > Ted, Cullen, Sean > _______________________________________________ > rtcweb mailing list > rtcweb@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/rtcweb > = From nobody Tue Sep 16 20:30:02 2014 Return-Path: X-Original-To: rtcweb@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: rtcweb@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4803E1A0174 for ; Tue, 16 Sep 2014 20:29:02 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.999 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.999 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id HURdLxsYSxIV for ; Tue, 16 Sep 2014 20:29:00 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail-ig0-x235.google.com (mail-ig0-x235.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:4001:c05::235]) (using TLSv1 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-RC4-SHA (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id CC80F1A0169 for ; Tue, 16 Sep 2014 20:28:59 -0700 (PDT) Received: by mail-ig0-f181.google.com with SMTP id h3so546887igd.2 for ; Tue, 16 Sep 2014 20:28:59 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20120113; h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:date:message-id:subject:from:to :cc:content-type; bh=NmfGRrmHe6cMpF/P5nH2cj5yjphu7O9lvLJYAiCLUsA=; b=AgZWXClipjLh4Ty2WATIDWXqZqdkECsC7imydZ+tM5Ag9mh/OYdvWdInDLpj5duLlt mrV4aMuPW9AyNKinAMY26Jy3Z2sX2z8DVm1/c0L9NfyoyEDd/Zv2TOmS+28RoEKXE2OC KCjrcNDRCE9Vd7ecKMjQ3g2HwW6ao/gcFMQcRLkQxHOlhtUJquEky369PUtpQR5bDu6P E3nq0eJtxnEl6vUCC3G+3Ds0avfNIy7buqUL5c2NnyykHO6XAkwXlns5FoqaNkmGJl15 H11eR0Hz1d59jGaKuVNbth/4VaIYU6dlZ6FHJYB33RYHhLkpMVCxkP07rqRymzvXu5gw 7KXw== MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Received: by 10.50.109.228 with SMTP id hv4mr22284228igb.13.1410924539044; Tue, 16 Sep 2014 20:28:59 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.43.3.4 with HTTP; Tue, 16 Sep 2014 20:28:58 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: <949EF20990823C4C85C18D59AA11AD8B236039@FR712WXCHMBA11.zeu.alcatel-lucent.com> References: <3C9B46EC-2071-451D-AF59-50891286672E@ieca.com> <949EF20990823C4C85C18D59AA11AD8B236039@FR712WXCHMBA11.zeu.alcatel-lucent.com> Date: Tue, 16 Sep 2014 23:28:58 -0400 Message-ID: From: Ted Hardie To: "DRAGE, Keith (Keith)" Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=089e013a214ef46b0605033a7786 Archived-At: http://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/rtcweb/Cx_w7ovBdBzoUs-M67WS9kbXRFc Cc: "rtcweb@ietf.org" Subject: Re: [rtcweb] WG adoption: draft-proust-rtcweb-audio-codecs-for-interop X-BeenThere: rtcweb@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: Real-Time Communication in WEB-browsers working group list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 17 Sep 2014 03:29:02 -0000 --089e013a214ef46b0605033a7786 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable On Tue, Sep 16, 2014 at 9:24 PM, DRAGE, Keith (Keith) < keith.drage@alcatel-lucent.com> wrote: > OK, so could I have an explanation of what the following means: > > "All normative requirements for which codecs WebRTC implementations must > support will remain in draft-ietf-rtcweb-audio-codec." > > Does this refer to the codecs that webrtc MUST support only, or does it > also refer to mandatory requirements of a specific codec that is supporte= d > (but not mandatory to implement). > > =E2=80=8B It means that if the working group decides that a WebRTC implementation must support a specific codec, it will write that down in draft-ietf-rtcweb-audio-codec.=E2=80=8B > And do any optional requirements of mandatory to implement codecs remain > in draft-ietf-rtcweb-audio-codec, or do they go to the new document. > > =E2=80=8B"optional requirements"? If a specific set of knob twists to a mandatory codec gives you transcoding-free =E2=80=8Binteroperability with a deployed set of systems, = you would document that in the new informational doc (which knob twists and what systems). Any other sorts of knob twists for the mandatory codecs and their effects might go into draft-ietf-rtcweb-audio-codec as advisory text if the working group wanted ("Set it to 11 and the bit rate doubles!"), but it would require working group consensus and some pretty good reasons. My take, in any case, without consulting the other chairs. Ted > Regards > > Keith > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: rtcweb [mailto:rtcweb-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of Sean Turner > > Sent: 16 September 2014 22:10 > > To: rtcweb@ietf.org > > Subject: [rtcweb] WG adoption: > > draft-proust-rtcweb-audio-codecs-for-interop > > > > Howdy, > > > > After reviewing the working group discussion at our last > > face-to-face meeting and the subsequent on-list discussion, > > the chairs believe that there is rough consensus to adopt > > draft-proust-rtcweb-audio-codecs-for-interop as an > > Informational document aiming to identify which codecs may > > allow transcoding-free interoperability with deployed > > systems. All normative requirements for which codecs WebRTC > > implementations must support will remain in > > draft-ietf-rtcweb-audio-codec. > > > > Ted, Cullen, Sean > > _______________________________________________ > > rtcweb mailing list > > rtcweb@ietf.org > > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/rtcweb > > > _______________________________________________ > rtcweb mailing list > rtcweb@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/rtcweb > --089e013a214ef46b0605033a7786 Content-Type: text/html; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
On Tue, Sep 16, 2014 at 9:24 PM= , DRAGE, Keith (Keith) <keith.drage@alcatel-lucent.com>= ; wrote:

"All normative requirements for which codecs WebRTC implementations mu= st support will remain in=C2=A0 draft-ietf-rtcweb-audio-codec."

Does this refer to the codecs that webrtc MUST support only, or does= it also refer to mandatory requirements of a specific codec that is suppor= ted (but not mandatory to implement).

=E2=80=8B
It means that if the= working group decides that a WebRTC implementation must support a specific= codec, it will write that down in draft-ietf-rtcweb-audio-codec.=E2=80=8B<= /div>=C2=A0
And do any optional requirements of mandatory to implement codecs remain in= draft-ietf-rtcweb-audio-codec, or do they go to the new document.


=E2=80=8B"optional requirements"= ?

If a specific set of knob twists to a mandatory code= c gives you transcoding-free =E2=80=8Binteroperability with a deployed set = of systems, you would document that in the new informational doc (which kno= b twists and what systems).=C2=A0

Any other sorts of knob twists fo= r the mandatory codecs and their effects might go into draft-ietf-rtcweb-au= dio-codec as advisory text if the working group wanted ("Set it to 11 = and the bit rate doubles!"), but it would require working group consen= sus and some pretty good reasons.=C2=A0

My take, in an= y case, without consulting the other chairs.

Ted

=C2=A0=
Regards

Keith

> -----Original Message-----
> From: rtcweb [mailto:rtcweb= -bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of Sean Turner
> Sent: 16 September 2014 22:10
> To: rtcweb@ietf.org
> Subject: [rtcweb] WG adoption:
> draft-proust-rtcweb-audio-codecs-for-interop
>
> Howdy,
>
> After reviewing the working group discussion at our last
> face-to-face meeting and the subsequent on-list discussion,
> the chairs believe that there is rough consensus to adopt
> draft-proust-rtcweb-audio-codecs-for-interop as an
> Informational document aiming to identify which codecs may
> allow transcoding-free interoperability with deployed
> systems.=C2=A0 All normative requirements for which codecs WebRTC
> implementations must support will remain in
> draft-ietf-rtcweb-audio-codec.
>
> Ted, Cullen, Sean
> _______________________________________________
> rtcweb mailing list
> rtcweb@ietf.org
> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/rtcweb
>
_______________________________________________
rtcweb mailing list
rtcweb@ietf.org
= https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/rtcweb

--089e013a214ef46b0605033a7786-- From nobody Wed Sep 17 00:41:37 2014 Return-Path: X-Original-To: rtcweb@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: rtcweb@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2B76E1A0349 for ; Wed, 17 Sep 2014 00:41:35 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -4.2 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-4.2 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-2.3, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id CL4aRbcdeuQp for ; Wed, 17 Sep 2014 00:41:33 -0700 (PDT) Received: from sesbmg22.ericsson.net (sesbmg22.ericsson.net [193.180.251.48]) (using TLSv1 with cipher DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 82F001A0310 for ; Wed, 17 Sep 2014 00:41:32 -0700 (PDT) X-AuditID: c1b4fb30-f79736d0000053b8-ce-54193b2adde9 Received: from ESESSHC017.ericsson.se (Unknown_Domain [153.88.253.124]) by sesbmg22.ericsson.net (Symantec Mail Security) with SMTP id DB.87.21432.A2B39145; Wed, 17 Sep 2014 09:41:30 +0200 (CEST) Received: from ESESSMB209.ericsson.se ([169.254.9.136]) by ESESSHC017.ericsson.se ([153.88.183.69]) with mapi id 14.03.0174.001; Wed, 17 Sep 2014 09:41:30 +0200 From: Christer Holmberg To: "rtcweb@ietf.org" Thread-Topic: Consent Freshness: Some suggestions for editorial clarifications Thread-Index: Ac/SSsrqFkDxItNJTuG8HxXaj35NUA== Date: Wed, 17 Sep 2014 07:41:29 +0000 Message-ID: <7594FB04B1934943A5C02806D1A2204B1D44E72A@ESESSMB209.ericsson.se> Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-originating-ip: [153.88.183.146] Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="_000_7594FB04B1934943A5C02806D1A2204B1D44E72AESESSMB209erics_" MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Brightmail-Tracker: H4sIAAAAAAAAA+NgFrrCLMWRmVeSWpSXmKPExsUyM+Jvja6WtWSIwZdOeYu1/9rZHRg9liz5 yRTAGMVlk5Kak1mWWqRvl8CVceksZ8Fj04rV+08zNTCu1Oti5OSQEDCRmDrnOxOELSZx4d56 ti5GLg4hgaOMEtPvdrGDJIQEljBKNBwt7WLk4GATsJDo/qcNEhYRUJe4/PACWImwgKfE5kXP mSDiARKNryayg5SLCOhJrHngDRJmEVCVWH7iMiOIzSvgK/Hqyg6wVkagtd9PrQFrZRYQl7j1 ZD7UOQISS/acZ4awRSVePv7HCmErSfzYcIkFoj5fYtalBewQMwUlTs58wjKBUWgWklGzkJTN QlIGEdeRWLD7ExuErS2xbOFrZhj7zIHHTMjiCxjZVzGKFqcWJ+WmGxnppRZlJhcX5+fp5aWW bGIERsPBLb8NdjC+fO54iFGAg1GJh1fhtUSIEGtiWXFl7iFGaQ4WJXHehefmBQsJpCeWpGan phakFsUXleakFh9iZOLglGpgbHskV5DGbNfx++7+p8pdGxgWs3k3h/1p2NviufFh4+Zdl4tF F8+XdL4/L+Hs9izjsgnzXfiXrfpXE1V6Q7SyLtNAYH5cn0Oxd8C07YbCgl0hk5Mz9sudmv/0 pdbeyuT84k2P+dQsBI6xBRUknVln9L5rRU9IyLb0jDOljxjKW/ey9QWp1f5VYinOSDTUYi4q TgQALxGKiGcCAAA= Archived-At: http://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/rtcweb/DyZeQNxL27f8aWog1YF_tP2mxhA Subject: [rtcweb] Consent Freshness: Some suggestions for editorial clarifications X-BeenThere: rtcweb@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: Real-Time Communication in WEB-browsers working group list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 17 Sep 2014 07:41:35 -0000 --_000_7594FB04B1934943A5C02806D1A2204B1D44E72AESESSMB209erics_ Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hi, Based on feedback I receive from implementers, there are a couple of clarif= ications I think would be useful in the consent freshness draft. Q1: ----- As STUN binding requests for consent are sent unreliably, and are not re-tr= ansmitted, I think it would be useful to have some explicit text saying tha= t individual requests (and/or their associated responses) may get lost in t= he network, and that a sender must be prepared that a response to such requ= estmay never arrive. It may be obvious to us, but maybe not as clear to the first-time reader of= the draft. Q2: ----- Section 4.1 says: "That is, if a valid STUN binding response corresponding to one of the STUN= requests sent in the last 30 seconds has not been received from the remote peer's Transport Addr= ess, the endpoint MUST cease transmission on that 5-tuple." First, I suggest the following clarification: s/"to one of the STUN requests sent in the last 30 seconds"/"to one of the = STUN requests (not necessarily the last one) sent in the last 30 seconds". Second, there is no explicit text on for how long the client keeps the STUN= transaction alive, i.e. for how long it waits for the response. I assume that, after 30 seconds, the client does not need to maintain state= and wait for the response anymore. I think it would be useful to explicitl= y indicate that, and also say that responses that are received after that t= ime must be discarded. Thanks! Regards, Christer --_000_7594FB04B1934943A5C02806D1A2204B1D44E72AESESSMB209erics_ Content-Type: text/html; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

Hi,

 

Based on feedback I receive from implementers, there= are a couple of clarifications I think would be useful in the consent fres= hness draft.

 

 

 

Q1:

-----

 

As STUN binding requests for consent are sent unreli= ably, and are not re-transmitted, I think it would be useful to have some e= xplicit text saying that individual requests (and/or their associated respo= nses) may get lost in the network, and that a sender must be prepared that a response to such requestmay neve= r arrive.

 

It may be obvious to us, but maybe not as clear to t= he first-time reader of the draft.

 

 

 

 

Q2:

-----

 

Section 4.1 says:

 

“That is, if a va= lid STUN binding response corresponding to one of the STUN requests sent in= the last 30 seconds

         &nb= sp;      has not been received from the remote pee= r's Transport Address, the endpoint MUST cease transmission on that 5-tuple= .”

 

First, I suggest the following clarification:

 

s/”to one of the = STUN requests sent in the last 30 seconds”/”to one of the STUN = requests (not necessarily the last one) sent in the last 30 seconds”.=

 

 

Second, there is no explicit text on for how long th= e client keeps the STUN transaction alive, i.e. for how long it waits for t= he response.

 

I assume that, after 30 seconds, the client does not= need to maintain state and wait for the response anymore. I think it would= be useful to explicitly indicate that, and also say that responses that ar= e received after that time must be discarded.

 

Thanks!

 

Regards,

 

Christer

 

 

--_000_7594FB04B1934943A5C02806D1A2204B1D44E72AESESSMB209erics_-- From nobody Wed Sep 17 00:54:31 2014 Return-Path: X-Original-To: rtcweb@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: rtcweb@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 932F61A02F0 for ; Wed, 17 Sep 2014 00:54:30 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -3.901 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-3.901 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, MIME_8BIT_HEADER=0.3, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-2.3, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id H3BNuZez8o_Z for ; Wed, 17 Sep 2014 00:54:28 -0700 (PDT) Received: from sessmg23.ericsson.net (sessmg23.ericsson.net [193.180.251.45]) (using TLSv1 with cipher DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id BA19D1A0310 for ; Wed, 17 Sep 2014 00:54:27 -0700 (PDT) X-AuditID: c1b4fb2d-f793d6d000005356-68-54193e314a50 Received: from ESESSHC006.ericsson.se (Unknown_Domain [153.88.253.124]) by sessmg23.ericsson.net (Symantec Mail Security) with SMTP id 9B.6B.21334.13E39145; Wed, 17 Sep 2014 09:54:26 +0200 (CEST) Received: from ESESSMB209.ericsson.se ([169.254.9.136]) by ESESSHC006.ericsson.se ([153.88.183.36]) with mapi id 14.03.0174.001; Wed, 17 Sep 2014 09:54:25 +0200 From: Christer Holmberg To: =?utf-8?B?ScOxYWtpIEJheiBDYXN0aWxsbw==?= , Martin Thomson Thread-Topic: [rtcweb] WG Last Call for draft-ietf-rtcweb-stun-consent-freshness Thread-Index: AQHPwIhKn1GSXc7NQ0qIq+/SSCMFtZwDql2AgAFtqlA= Date: Wed, 17 Sep 2014 07:54:23 +0000 Message-ID: <7594FB04B1934943A5C02806D1A2204B1D44E78E@ESESSMB209.ericsson.se> References: <7594FB04B1934943A5C02806D1A2204B1D41CDC3@ESESSMB209.ericsson.se> <53F451CF.10705@alvestrand.no> <001b01cfbc94$fccd5310$f667f930$@co.in> <7594FB04B1934943A5C02806D1A2204B1D427B68@ESESSMB209.ericsson.se> <009001cfbe4f$6b92f280$42b8d780$@co.in> In-Reply-To: Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-originating-ip: [153.88.183.146] Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Brightmail-Tracker: H4sIAAAAAAAAA+NgFvrMLMWRmVeSWpSXmKPExsUyM+Jvja6RnWSIwZotHBbT99lYXDvzj9Fi 7b92dgdmj3MN79k9ds66y+6xZMlPpgDmKC6blNSczLLUIn27BK6MCZecCo6xV+zfVNXAuIa9 i5GTQ0LARKJ5+Vc2CFtM4sK99UA2F4eQwFFGicNfHzNCOEsYJS7NusjUxcjBwSZgIdH9Txuk QUQgU+Lp7plMIDazgLrEncXnwIYKCwRKLP75ixWiJkhiWudMZgjbSqLhz0sWEJtFQFVi1etH YL28Ar4SO1ZcYIfY9ZtD4n5LE1gDJ9Cg5renwAYxAl33/dQaqGXiEreezGeCuFpAYsme88wQ tqjEy8f/WCFsJYkfGy6xgNzMLKApsX6XPkSrosSU7ofsEHsFJU7OfMIygVFsFpKpsxA6ZiHp mIWkYwEjyypG0eLU4uLcdCNjvdSizOTi4vw8vbzUkk2MwFg6uOW37g7G1a8dDzEKcDAq8fAq vJYIEWJNLCuuzD3EKM3BoiTOu+jcvGAhgfTEktTs1NSC1KL4otKc1OJDjEwcnFINjPGfvp0L e3/tfpz7xIkODgGG0xZ5hwtOWK1lI/1tbuGrCWtqV6tZdNjKrjIzcD4owvRim4LH6sVWk6YG PJs/javasW3yLJ2lsjPuxCou9AxZt6KyadXvfaxxRbYW9gduuQb4R12374r4xvFsjmCN7I5q k/+mNxULgp6dKQu/tXe+csJnk/maD5RYijMSDbWYi4oTAWIiPdCGAgAA Archived-At: http://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/rtcweb/NiboVqIt5Qjhrck6jV5Kmq7SV7U Cc: "rtcweb@ietf.org" Subject: Re: [rtcweb] WG Last Call for draft-ietf-rtcweb-stun-consent-freshness X-BeenThere: rtcweb@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: Real-Time Communication in WEB-browsers working group list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 17 Sep 2014 07:54:30 -0000 KzENCg0KUmVnYXJkcywNCg0KQ2hyaXN0ZXINCg0KLS0tLS1PcmlnaW5hbCBNZXNzYWdlLS0tLS0N CkZyb206IHJ0Y3dlYiBbbWFpbHRvOnJ0Y3dlYi1ib3VuY2VzQGlldGYub3JnXSBPbiBCZWhhbGYg T2YgScOxYWtpIEJheiBDYXN0aWxsbw0KU2VudDogMTYuIHN5eXNrdXV0YSAyMDE0IDE1OjA1DQpU bzogTWFydGluIFRob21zb24NCkNjOiBydGN3ZWJAaWV0Zi5vcmcNClN1YmplY3Q6IFJlOiBbcnRj d2ViXSBXRyBMYXN0IENhbGwgZm9yIGRyYWZ0LWlldGYtcnRjd2ViLXN0dW4tY29uc2VudC1mcmVz aG5lc3MNCg0KMjAxNC0wOC0yNSAxOToxNSBHTVQrMDI6MDAgTWFydGluIFRob21zb24gPG1hcnRp bi50aG9tc29uQGdtYWlsLmNvbT46DQo+IEFueSBXZWJSVEMgZW50aXR5IE1VU1QgaW1wbGVtZW50 IGZ1bGwgSUNFDQoNCldoeT8gSW4gc2VydmVyIHNpZGUgaW1wbGVtZW50aW5nIElDRS1MaXRlIGlz IHJlYWxseSBvcGVyYXRpb25hbCBhbmQgKmVhc2llciouDQoNClBsZWFzZSwgZG9uJ3QgZHJvcCBJ Q0UtTGl0ZS4NCg0KDQotLSANCknDsWFraSBCYXogQ2FzdGlsbG8NCjxpYmNAYWxpYXgubmV0Pg0K DQpfX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fXw0KcnRjd2Vi IG1haWxpbmcgbGlzdA0KcnRjd2ViQGlldGYub3JnDQpodHRwczovL3d3dy5pZXRmLm9yZy9tYWls bWFuL2xpc3RpbmZvL3J0Y3dlYg0K From nobody Wed Sep 17 02:14:43 2014 Return-Path: X-Original-To: rtcweb@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: rtcweb@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id DA8111A00CA for ; 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Wed, 17 Sep 2014 04:14:39 -0500 From: "Ram Mohan R (rmohanr)" To: Christer Holmberg , =?iso-8859-1?Q?I=F1aki_Baz_Castillo?= , "rtcweb@ietf.org" Thread-Topic: [rtcweb] WG Last Call for draft-ietf-rtcweb-stun-consent-freshness Thread-Index: AQHP0lfO30Tsit21d0m4+V6GcMqskA== Date: Wed, 17 Sep 2014 09:14:38 +0000 Message-ID: References: <7594FB04B1934943A5C02806D1A2204B1D41CDC3@ESESSMB209.ericsson.se> <53F451CF.10705@alvestrand.no> <001b01cfbc94$fccd5310$f667f930$@co.in> <7594FB04B1934943A5C02806D1A2204B1D427B68@ESESSMB209.ericsson.se> <009001cfbe4f$6b92f280$42b8d780$@co.in> <7594FB04B1934943A5C02806D1A2204B1D44E78E@ESESSMB209.ericsson.se> In-Reply-To: <7594FB04B1934943A5C02806D1A2204B1D44E78E@ESESSMB209.ericsson.se> Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: user-agent: Microsoft-MacOutlook/14.4.3.140616 x-originating-ip: [173.39.64.80] Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-ID: Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable MIME-Version: 1.0 Archived-At: http://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/rtcweb/gJDTTq68V65DQdFAsBs3ifgYTTA Subject: Re: [rtcweb] WG Last Call for draft-ietf-rtcweb-stun-consent-freshness X-BeenThere: rtcweb@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: Real-Time Communication in WEB-browsers working group list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 17 Sep 2014 09:14:42 -0000 Please look at the latest revision and let us know if any other text is needed for this. Ram -----Original Message----- From: Christer Holmberg Date: Wednesday, 17 September 2014 1:24 pm To: I=F1aki Baz Castillo , Martin Thomson Cc: "rtcweb@ietf.org" Subject: Re: [rtcweb] WG Last Call for draft-ietf-rtcweb-stun-consent-freshness >+1 > >Regards, > >Christer > >-----Original Message----- >From: rtcweb [mailto:rtcweb-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of I=F1aki Baz >Castillo >Sent: 16. syyskuuta 2014 15:05 >To: Martin Thomson >Cc: rtcweb@ietf.org >Subject: Re: [rtcweb] WG Last Call for >draft-ietf-rtcweb-stun-consent-freshness > >2014-08-25 19:15 GMT+02:00 Martin Thomson : >> Any WebRTC entity MUST implement full ICE > >Why? In server side implementing ICE-Lite is really operational and >*easier*. > >Please, don't drop ICE-Lite. > > >--=20 >I=F1aki Baz Castillo > > >_______________________________________________ >rtcweb mailing list >rtcweb@ietf.org >https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/rtcweb >_______________________________________________ >rtcweb mailing list >rtcweb@ietf.org >https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/rtcweb From nobody Wed Sep 17 04:38:04 2014 Return-Path: X-Original-To: rtcweb@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: rtcweb@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 226A81A01FA for ; Wed, 17 Sep 2014 04:38:03 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -3.901 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-3.901 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, MIME_8BIT_HEADER=0.3, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-2.3, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id pEdWnV6eAmL1 for ; Wed, 17 Sep 2014 04:38:01 -0700 (PDT) Received: from sessmg23.ericsson.net (sessmg23.ericsson.net [193.180.251.45]) (using TLSv1 with cipher DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 855921A00F5 for ; Wed, 17 Sep 2014 04:38:00 -0700 (PDT) X-AuditID: c1b4fb2d-f793d6d000005356-fe-541972965087 Received: from ESESSHC013.ericsson.se (Unknown_Domain [153.88.253.124]) by sessmg23.ericsson.net (Symantec Mail Security) with SMTP id FF.F0.21334.69279145; Wed, 17 Sep 2014 13:37:58 +0200 (CEST) Received: from ESESSMB209.ericsson.se ([169.254.9.136]) by ESESSHC013.ericsson.se ([153.88.183.57]) with mapi id 14.03.0174.001; Wed, 17 Sep 2014 13:37:58 +0200 From: Christer Holmberg To: "Ram Mohan R (rmohanr)" , =?iso-8859-1?Q?I=F1aki_Baz_Castillo?= , "rtcweb@ietf.org" Thread-Topic: [rtcweb] WG Last Call for draft-ietf-rtcweb-stun-consent-freshness Thread-Index: AQHP0lfQaumnpGxwmEiAQbmuYTUoDpwFMYXA Date: Wed, 17 Sep 2014 11:37:57 +0000 Message-ID: <7594FB04B1934943A5C02806D1A2204B1D44EC29@ESESSMB209.ericsson.se> References: <7594FB04B1934943A5C02806D1A2204B1D41CDC3@ESESSMB209.ericsson.se> <53F451CF.10705@alvestrand.no> <001b01cfbc94$fccd5310$f667f930$@co.in> <7594FB04B1934943A5C02806D1A2204B1D427B68@ESESSMB209.ericsson.se> <009001cfbe4f$6b92f280$42b8d780$@co.in> <7594FB04B1934943A5C02806D1A2204B1D44E78E@ESESSMB209.ericsson.se> In-Reply-To: Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-originating-ip: [153.88.183.20] Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Brightmail-Tracker: H4sIAAAAAAAAA+NgFnrNLMWRmVeSWpSXmKPExsUyM+Jvje60IskQgzuLNCym77OxWN61g9Fi 7b92dgdmj3MN79k9pvzeyOqxZMlPpgDmKC6blNSczLLUIn27BK6MV4v2MxVsF6r482gJYwPj Kv4uRk4OCQETiT/XrrFC2GISF+6tZ+ti5OIQEjjKKDFzxlRmCGcJo8Sn7naWLkYODjYBC4nu f9ogcRGBfkaJn5N2s4B0CwsESmzdP58dxBYRCJL49msvI4RtJPFizyI2EJtFQFXix9HZTCBz eAV8Jd70lUPMf8Ip8ejGNiaQGk4BfYnmhutgFzECXfT91BqwOLOAuMStJ/OZIC4VkFiy5zwz hC0q8fLxP6gPFCWuTl8OVa8ncWPqFDYIW1ti2cLXYPW8AoISJ2c+YZnAKDoLydhZSFpmIWmZ haRlASPLKkbR4tTi4tx0I2O91KLM5OLi/Dy9vNSSTYzA2Dm45bfuDsbVrx0PMQpwMCrx8Cq8 lggRYk0sK67MPcQozcGiJM676Ny8YCGB9MSS1OzU1ILUovii0pzU4kOMTBycUg2M0fM0C19s rd69zG/330ecr9Z+5uUo37X38dTLdo/jFh761xETslo6604Cz+rHU3d93Pe/4UliT9Dr1l0/ nluveulsmbPrftN+sdwEO95Sm7DdnwpkwnmPxaS8Df0YEbeg+19zY035ee6N7Oeaezj2C53P 77UQ3Bh299zZPq3dPyZruO10XZr6RYmlOCPRUIu5qDgRAFE2/8x+AgAA Archived-At: http://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/rtcweb/B2Vc-DH14BPwQz4tO1hfm6jGBFs Subject: Re: [rtcweb] WG Last Call for draft-ietf-rtcweb-stun-consent-freshness X-BeenThere: rtcweb@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: Real-Time Communication in WEB-browsers working group list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 17 Sep 2014 11:38:03 -0000 Hi, The latest version look good. A couple of editorial comments: Q1: ----- In the Introduction, maybe we could modify the last paragraph in the follow= ing way: "When a (full) ICE implementation interworks with an ICE-lite implementation the ICE-lite implementation will not generate consent checks. It will, however, response to consent checks in the same way as it responds to any other STUN binding request." I think that makes it more clear that the draft does not require any change= s to existing ICE-lite implementations. Q2: ----- In section 4.1, maybe you could be more clear and say: "A WebRTC implementation [I-D.ietf-rtcweb-overview], which implements *(ful= l)* ICE" Thanks! Regards, Christer -----Original Message----- From: Ram Mohan R (rmohanr) [mailto:rmohanr@cisco.com]=20 Sent: 17. syyskuuta 2014 12:15 To: Christer Holmberg; I=F1aki Baz Castillo; rtcweb@ietf.org Subject: Re: [rtcweb] WG Last Call for draft-ietf-rtcweb-stun-consent-fresh= ness Please look at the latest revision and let us know if any other text is nee= ded for this. Ram -----Original Message----- From: Christer Holmberg Date: Wednesday, 17 September 2014 1:24 pm To: I=F1aki Baz Castillo , Martin Thomson Cc: "rtcweb@ietf.org" Subject: Re: [rtcweb] WG Last Call for draft-ietf-rtcweb-stun-consent-freshness >+1 > >Regards, > >Christer > >-----Original Message----- >From: rtcweb [mailto:rtcweb-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of I=F1aki Baz=20 >Castillo >Sent: 16. syyskuuta 2014 15:05 >To: Martin Thomson >Cc: rtcweb@ietf.org >Subject: Re: [rtcweb] WG Last Call for >draft-ietf-rtcweb-stun-consent-freshness > >2014-08-25 19:15 GMT+02:00 Martin Thomson : >> Any WebRTC entity MUST implement full ICE > >Why? In server side implementing ICE-Lite is really operational and=20 >*easier*. > >Please, don't drop ICE-Lite. > > >-- >I=F1aki Baz Castillo > > >_______________________________________________ >rtcweb mailing list >rtcweb@ietf.org >https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/rtcweb >_______________________________________________ >rtcweb mailing list >rtcweb@ietf.org >https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/rtcweb From nobody Wed Sep 17 08:41:33 2014 Return-Path: X-Original-To: rtcweb@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: rtcweb@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6F5EF1A01F7 for ; Wed, 17 Sep 2014 08:41:32 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -5.853 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-5.853 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-2.3, RP_MATCHES_RCVD=-1.652, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id IgRInIW8NLg6 for ; Wed, 17 Sep 2014 08:41:31 -0700 (PDT) Received: from lhrrgout.huawei.com (lhrrgout.huawei.com [194.213.3.17]) (using TLSv1 with cipher RC4-SHA (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id BA8871A01E8 for ; Wed, 17 Sep 2014 08:41:30 -0700 (PDT) Received: from 172.18.7.190 (EHLO lhreml405-hub.china.huawei.com) ([172.18.7.190]) by lhrrg01-dlp.huawei.com (MOS 4.3.7-GA FastPath queued) with ESMTP id BMS26498; Wed, 17 Sep 2014 15:41:29 +0000 (GMT) Received: from LHREML513-MBB.china.huawei.com ([fe80::b810:863:a57e:3ff]) by lhreml405-hub.china.huawei.com ([10.201.5.242]) with mapi id 14.03.0158.001; Wed, 17 Sep 2014 16:41:26 +0100 From: Hosnieh Rafiee To: "rtcweb@ietf.org" Thread-Topic: secauth - secure authentication and authorization Thread-Index: Ac/SjdbG91CpXSYeRvyti+nEcQJbUA== Date: Wed, 17 Sep 2014 15:41:25 +0000 Message-ID: <814D0BFB77D95844A01CA29B44CBF8A7A4147B@lhreml513-mbb.china.huawei.com> Accept-Language: zh-CN, en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-originating-ip: [10.221.82.100] Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable MIME-Version: 1.0 X-CFilter-Loop: Reflected Archived-At: http://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/rtcweb/DpBMhk8oUIFH8XVOHjQa_-BNwR0 Subject: [rtcweb] secauth - secure authentication and authorization X-BeenThere: rtcweb@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: Real-Time Communication in WEB-browsers working group list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 17 Sep 2014 15:41:32 -0000 Folks, There is a group that works on authentication and authorization (maybe you'= ve already aware of this group and see my messages on saag). This group wou= ld focus on closing the gap in first point of trust as much as possible. One of the use cases is also about SIP protocol. If you are interested, please join to the group and share your comments on = the requirement and use case draft.=20 Here is the pre-upload version To subscribe=20 List Archive Thanks , Best, Hosnieh From nobody Sat Sep 20 06:58:09 2014 Return-Path: X-Original-To: rtcweb@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: rtcweb@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 506BC1A0115 for ; Sat, 20 Sep 2014 06:58:08 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.236 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.236 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, SPF_HELO_PASS=-0.001, SPF_SOFTFAIL=0.665] autolearn=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id VB9Te80Dwxkw for ; Sat, 20 Sep 2014 06:58:07 -0700 (PDT) Received: from implementers.org (implementers.org [IPv6:2604:3400:dc1:41:216:3eff:fe5b:8240]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id CADD91A013B for ; Sat, 20 Sep 2014 06:58:06 -0700 (PDT) Received: from [IPv6:2001:470:40b8:0:dcce:5ba2:1b90:2e00] (unknown [IPv6:2001:470:40b8:0:dcce:5ba2:1b90:2e00]) (using TLSv1 with cipher DHE-RSA-AES128-SHA (128/128 bits)) (Client CN "Marc Petit-Huguenin", Issuer "implementers.org" (verified OK)) by implementers.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 3F6442036D for ; Sat, 20 Sep 2014 15:58:05 +0200 (CEST) Message-ID: <541D87EA.6040800@acm.org> Date: Sat, 20 Sep 2014 07:58:02 -0600 From: Marc Petit-Huguenin User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; Linux x86_64; rv:31.0) Gecko/20100101 Icedove/31.0 MIME-Version: 1.0 To: "rtcweb@ietf.org" References: In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Archived-At: http://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/rtcweb/jKPUu8rmz1ivs08gAaJfVPBuHes Subject: Re: [rtcweb] WG Last Call for draft-ietf-rtcweb-stun-consent-freshness X-BeenThere: rtcweb@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: Real-Time Communication in WEB-browsers working group list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sat, 20 Sep 2014 13:58:08 -0000 -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA256 I apologize for the this late review. Now that RFC 7350 is published, the following consideration applies to all new STUN usages: RFC 7350 section 4: "Future STUN usages MUST take in account DTLS as a transport and discuss its applicability." I propose to add something like this: "X.X. DTLS Applicability The DTLS applicability is identical to what is described in Section 4.2 of RFC 7350." Thanks. On 08/14/2014 09:10 AM, Ted Hardie wrote: > This starts a WG Last Call for draft-ietf-rtcweb-stun-consent-freshness > (available at > http://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-rtcweb-stun-consent-freshness/). > Please review the document and send comments to the list by September 10, > 2014. > > thanks, > > Ted Hardie - -- Marc Petit-Huguenin Email: marc@petit-huguenin.org Blog: http://blog.marc.petit-huguenin.org Profile: http://www.linkedin.com/in/petithug -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1 iQIcBAEBCAAGBQJUHYfqAAoJECnERZXWan7E12EP/1UJICqOAWZltOncwaq0zjkF 0LN0n/qT9E0hoKvWVObHFN9/qyZ2fnXWidbEyPqtbOGtU7X6pFQ4WvbybWxj4sXm hlINiLmGGbsga7ze1/MeTNWT0jceqZOkeexT9Fp7tTovysmgtb6biNq5vRTpxNjQ g+wRCt2o/zzs5d7BbfLuDJFbbFmRCs2yp4uq7sSayuJYzUfKDhJyJDe9jNpaxVsv 25+PCClVxfNYEZtIuhUmy7xH00IYLA9+LrQAFCLY9VV6xfb1E0LMMjguGAdRBul4 j8N9mNZ8e4d3gPwyv9vy0VFQVJjNY4oJCsOsSbr5EI1rxCtgekaUKp6jpb62iux1 3gsGziscKtyeBEiQBepy4MxFd9w8OQ16h1AkukBHZzf3OtiYw/TXhdutdROkMmMe X9iDovwyMjZSYcxk/JhgPmyHKnXeyrIF5Xi6mC28BZMbGjmLgtFJZqRrFXJmC7hc urbE2uSBMECVzULZ26k78y8tbQG3uOmDtk0dAkAFzeSbs1l5itvX12sP+JhQ99OB YSAJpIVzsLjwRz7TVDJVH0WbkVDz4Rb10EJDPnfXvol3gUP9crXPP8AggPtPVrFl eMQLBkaSDpRQeE9czwRIAUfm1GGpU4q915mCRt06Sf6Bjf3QiG5QbrpvpufCHjK9 QKUueiFm1GcnjWV4zEYj =llVA -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- From nobody Sun Sep 21 21:33:44 2014 Return-Path: X-Original-To: rtcweb@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: rtcweb@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7FDF51A1A19 for ; 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Sun, 21 Sep 2014 23:33:39 -0500 From: "Ram Mohan R (rmohanr)" To: Christer Holmberg , =?iso-8859-1?Q?I=F1aki_Baz_Castillo?= , "rtcweb@ietf.org" Thread-Topic: [rtcweb] WG Last Call for draft-ietf-rtcweb-stun-consent-freshness Thread-Index: AQHP1h5hgsoXTLjsZUGnIevMd7afnw== Date: Mon, 22 Sep 2014 04:33:38 +0000 Message-ID: References: <7594FB04B1934943A5C02806D1A2204B1D41CDC3@ESESSMB209.ericsson.se> <53F451CF.10705@alvestrand.no> <001b01cfbc94$fccd5310$f667f930$@co.in> <7594FB04B1934943A5C02806D1A2204B1D427B68@ESESSMB209.ericsson.se> <009001cfbe4f$6b92f280$42b8d780$@co.in> <7594FB04B1934943A5C02806D1A2204B1D44E78E@ESESSMB209.ericsson.se> <7594FB04B1934943A5C02806D1A2204B1D44EC29@ESESSMB209.ericsson.se> In-Reply-To: <7594FB04B1934943A5C02806D1A2204B1D44EC29@ESESSMB209.ericsson.se> Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: user-agent: Microsoft-MacOutlook/14.4.3.140616 x-originating-ip: [173.39.65.37] Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-ID: <5908EADDDA26994C94A5B924E067D25B@emea.cisco.com> Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable MIME-Version: 1.0 Archived-At: http://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/rtcweb/tiGU_XpBct-cVAqU54sDbucX24c Subject: Re: [rtcweb] WG Last Call for draft-ietf-rtcweb-stun-consent-freshness X-BeenThere: rtcweb@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: Real-Time Communication in WEB-browsers working group list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 22 Sep 2014 04:33:43 -0000 Ok will take care of these. Ram -----Original Message----- From: Christer Holmberg Date: Wednesday, 17 September 2014 5:07 pm To: Cisco Employee , I=F1aki Baz Castillo , "rtcweb@ietf.org" Subject: RE: [rtcweb] WG Last Call for draft-ietf-rtcweb-stun-consent-freshness >Hi, > >The latest version look good. A couple of editorial comments: > > >Q1: >----- > >In the Introduction, maybe we could modify the last paragraph in the >following way: > > "When a (full) ICE implementation interworks with an ICE-lite > implementation the ICE-lite implementation will not generate consent > checks. It will, however, response to consent checks in the same way > as it responds to any other STUN binding request." > >I think that makes it more clear that the draft does not require any >changes to existing ICE-lite implementations. > > >Q2: >----- > >In section 4.1, maybe you could be more clear and say: > >"A WebRTC implementation [I-D.ietf-rtcweb-overview], which implements >*(full)* ICE" > > >Thanks! > >Regards, > >Christer > >-----Original Message----- >From: Ram Mohan R (rmohanr) [mailto:rmohanr@cisco.com] >Sent: 17. syyskuuta 2014 12:15 >To: Christer Holmberg; I=F1aki Baz Castillo; rtcweb@ietf.org >Subject: Re: [rtcweb] WG Last Call for >draft-ietf-rtcweb-stun-consent-freshness > >Please look at the latest revision and let us know if any other text is >needed for this. > >Ram > >-----Original Message----- >From: Christer Holmberg >Date: Wednesday, 17 September 2014 1:24 pm >To: I=F1aki Baz Castillo , Martin Thomson > >Cc: "rtcweb@ietf.org" >Subject: Re: [rtcweb] WG Last Call >for draft-ietf-rtcweb-stun-consent-freshness > >>+1 >> >>Regards, >> >>Christer >> >>-----Original Message----- >>From: rtcweb [mailto:rtcweb-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of I=F1aki Baz >>Castillo >>Sent: 16. syyskuuta 2014 15:05 >>To: Martin Thomson >>Cc: rtcweb@ietf.org >>Subject: Re: [rtcweb] WG Last Call for >>draft-ietf-rtcweb-stun-consent-freshness >> >>2014-08-25 19:15 GMT+02:00 Martin Thomson : >>> Any WebRTC entity MUST implement full ICE >> >>Why? In server side implementing ICE-Lite is really operational and >>*easier*. >> >>Please, don't drop ICE-Lite. >> >> >>-- >>I=F1aki Baz Castillo >> >> >>_______________________________________________ >>rtcweb mailing list >>rtcweb@ietf.org >>https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/rtcweb >>_______________________________________________ >>rtcweb mailing list >>rtcweb@ietf.org >>https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/rtcweb > From nobody Sun Sep 21 21:33:48 2014 Return-Path: X-Original-To: rtcweb@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: rtcweb@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 127C11A1A1C for ; Sun, 21 Sep 2014 21:33:45 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -11.437 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-11.437 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_05=-0.5, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, MIME_CHARSET_FARAWAY=2.45, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_HI=-5, RP_MATCHES_RCVD=-0.786, SPF_PASS=-0.001, USER_IN_DEF_DKIM_WL=-7.5] autolearn=ham Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id NGLGul7A-Rye for ; 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d="scan'208";a="79971637" Received: from rcdn-core-6.cisco.com ([173.37.93.157]) by alln-iport-6.cisco.com with ESMTP; 22 Sep 2014 04:33:42 +0000 Received: from xhc-aln-x08.cisco.com (xhc-aln-x08.cisco.com [173.36.12.82]) by rcdn-core-6.cisco.com (8.14.5/8.14.5) with ESMTP id s8M4Xg2l018070 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=AES128-SHA bits=128 verify=FAIL); Mon, 22 Sep 2014 04:33:42 GMT Received: from xmb-aln-x05.cisco.com ([169.254.11.227]) by xhc-aln-x08.cisco.com ([173.36.12.82]) with mapi id 14.03.0195.001; Sun, 21 Sep 2014 23:33:42 -0500 From: "Ram Mohan R (rmohanr)" To: Christer Holmberg , "rtcweb@ietf.org" Thread-Topic: [rtcweb] Consent Freshness: Some suggestions for editorial clarifications Thread-Index: AQHP1h2Dt0wZcvY3bE2GylGVu4RX/JwNQcqA Date: Mon, 22 Sep 2014 04:33:42 +0000 Message-ID: References: <7594FB04B1934943A5C02806D1A2204B1D44E72A@ESESSMB209.ericsson.se> In-Reply-To: Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: user-agent: Microsoft-MacOutlook/14.4.3.140616 x-originating-ip: [173.39.65.37] Content-Type: text/plain; charset="euc-kr" Content-ID: Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 MIME-Version: 1.0 Archived-At: http://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/rtcweb/l0jiEGpOvnZLsiPx5QMLqoy82yM Subject: Re: [rtcweb] Consent Freshness: Some suggestions for editorial clarifications X-BeenThere: rtcweb@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: Real-Time Communication in WEB-browsers working group list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 22 Sep 2014 04:33:45 -0000 SGkgQ2hyaXN0ZXIsDQoNClBsZWFzZSBzZWUgaW5saW5lDQoNCj4NCj4NCj5Gcm9tOiAgQ2hyaXN0 ZXIgSG9sbWJlcmcgPGNocmlzdGVyLmhvbG1iZXJnQGVyaWNzc29uLmNvbT4NCj5EYXRlOiAgV2Vk bmVzZGF5LCAxNyBTZXB0ZW1iZXIgMjAxNCAxOjExIHBtDQo+VG86ICAicnRjd2ViQGlldGYub3Jn IiA8cnRjd2ViQGlldGYub3JnPg0KPlN1YmplY3Q6ICBbcnRjd2ViXSBDb25zZW50IEZyZXNobmVz czogU29tZSBzdWdnZXN0aW9ucyBmb3INCj5lZGl0b3JpYWwJY2xhcmlmaWNhdGlvbnMNCj4NCj4N Cj5IaSwNCj4gDQo+QmFzZWQgb24gZmVlZGJhY2sgSSByZWNlaXZlIGZyb20gaW1wbGVtZW50ZXJz LCB0aGVyZSBhcmUgYSBjb3VwbGUgb2YNCj5jbGFyaWZpY2F0aW9ucyBJIHRoaW5rIHdvdWxkIGJl IHVzZWZ1bCBpbiB0aGUgY29uc2VudCBmcmVzaG5lc3MgZHJhZnQuDQo+IA0KPiANCj4gDQo+UTE6 DQo+LS0tLS0NCj4gDQo+QXMgU1RVTiBiaW5kaW5nIHJlcXVlc3RzIGZvciBjb25zZW50IGFyZSBz ZW50IHVucmVsaWFibHksIGFuZCBhcmUgbm90DQo+cmUtdHJhbnNtaXR0ZWQsIEkgdGhpbmsgaXQg d291bGQgYmUgdXNlZnVsIHRvIGhhdmUgc29tZSBleHBsaWNpdCB0ZXh0DQo+c2F5aW5nIHRoYXQg aW5kaXZpZHVhbCByZXF1ZXN0cyAoYW5kL29yIHRoZWlyIGFzc29jaWF0ZWQgcmVzcG9uc2VzKSBt YXkNCj5nZXQgbG9zdCBpbiB0aGUgbmV0d29yaywNCj4gYW5kIHRoYXQgYSBzZW5kZXIgbXVzdCBi ZSBwcmVwYXJlZCB0aGF0IGEgcmVzcG9uc2UgdG8gc3VjaCByZXF1ZXN0bWF5DQo+bmV2ZXIgYXJy aXZlLg0KPiANCj5JdCBtYXkgYmUgb2J2aW91cyB0byB1cywgYnV0IG1heWJlIG5vdCBhcyBjbGVh ciB0byB0aGUgZmlyc3QtdGltZSByZWFkZXINCj5vZiB0aGUgZHJhZnQuDQoNClRoaXMgZGVwZW5k cyBvbiB0aGUgdW5kZXJseWluZyB0cmFuc3BvcnQgdXNlZC4gSWYgaXRzIFVEUCBhcyB5b3Ugc2Fp ZCBpdHMNCnVucmVsaWFibGUuIEZvciBvdGhlciB0cmFuc3BvcnRzIGl0IGlzIG5vdCB0aGUgY2Fz ZS4gU28gSSBkb26hr3Qgc2VlIGEgbmVlZA0KdG8gYWRkIGFueSB0ZXh0IGluIHRoaXMgZHJhZnQu DQo+IA0KPiANCj4gDQo+IA0KPlEyOg0KPi0tLS0tDQo+IA0KPlNlY3Rpb24gNC4xIHNheXM6DQo+ IA0KPqn4VGhhdCBpcywgaWYgYSB2YWxpZCBTVFVOIGJpbmRpbmcgcmVzcG9uc2UgY29ycmVzcG9u ZGluZyB0byBvbmUgb2YgdGhlDQo+U1RVTiByZXF1ZXN0cyBzZW50IGluIHRoZSBsYXN0IDMwIHNl Y29uZHMNCj4gICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgaGFzIG5vdCBiZWVuIHJlY2VpdmVkIGZyb20gdGhlIHJl bW90ZSBwZWVyJ3MgVHJhbnNwb3J0DQo+QWRkcmVzcywgdGhlIGVuZHBvaW50IE1VU1QgY2Vhc2Ug dHJhbnNtaXNzaW9uIG9uIHRoYXQgNS10dXBsZS6p9w0KPiANCj5GaXJzdCwgSSBzdWdnZXN0IHRo ZSBmb2xsb3dpbmcgY2xhcmlmaWNhdGlvbjoNCj4gDQo+cy+p93RvIG9uZSBvZiB0aGUgU1RVTiBy ZXF1ZXN0cyBzZW50IGluIHRoZSBsYXN0IDMwIHNlY29uZHOp9y+p93RvIG9uZSBvZiB0aGUNCj5T VFVOIHJlcXVlc3RzIChub3QgbmVjZXNzYXJpbHkgdGhlIGxhc3Qgb25lKSBzZW50IGluIHRoZSBs YXN0IDMwIHNlY29uZHOp9y4NCg0KV2lsbCB1cGRhdGUgdGhpcyBpbiB0aGUgbmV4dCByZXZpc2lv bi4NCg0KPiANCj4gDQo+U2Vjb25kLCB0aGVyZSBpcyBubyBleHBsaWNpdCB0ZXh0IG9uIGZvciBo b3cgbG9uZyB0aGUgY2xpZW50IGtlZXBzIHRoZQ0KPlNUVU4gdHJhbnNhY3Rpb24gYWxpdmUsIGku ZS4gZm9yIGhvdyBsb25nIGl0IHdhaXRzIGZvciB0aGUgcmVzcG9uc2UuDQo+IA0KPkkgYXNzdW1l IHRoYXQsIGFmdGVyIDMwIHNlY29uZHMsIHRoZSBjbGllbnQgZG9lcyBub3QgbmVlZCB0byBtYWlu dGFpbg0KPnN0YXRlIGFuZCB3YWl0IGZvciB0aGUgcmVzcG9uc2UgYW55bW9yZS4gSSB0aGluayBp dCB3b3VsZCBiZSB1c2VmdWwgdG8NCj5leHBsaWNpdGx5IGluZGljYXRlIHRoYXQsIGFuZCBhbHNv IHNheSB0aGF0IHJlc3BvbnNlcyB0aGF0IGFyZSByZWNlaXZlZA0KPmFmdGVyIHRoYXQgdGltZSBt dXN0IGJlDQo+IGRpc2NhcmRlZC4NCg0KT2suIFdpbGwgbWVudGlvbiB0aGF0IGFueSByZXNwb25z ZXMgcmVjZWl2ZWQgYWZ0ZXIgMzAgc2VjcyB3aWxsIGJlDQpkaXNjYXJkZWQuDQoNClJlZ2FyZHMs DQpSYW0NCg0KPiANCj5UaGFua3MhDQo+IA0KPlJlZ2FyZHMsDQo+IA0KPkNocmlzdGVyDQo+IA0K PiANCj4NCg0K From nobody Sun Sep 21 21:42:03 2014 Return-Path: X-Original-To: rtcweb@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: rtcweb@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7DE7B1A1A18 for ; 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Mon, 22 Sep 2014 06:41:56 +0200 From: Christer Holmberg To: "Ram Mohan R (rmohanr)" , "rtcweb@ietf.org" Thread-Topic: [rtcweb] Consent Freshness: Some suggestions for editorial clarifications Thread-Index: AQHP1h5lVKDK2xrw/EGz9cuhi0SWmpwMkeBA Date: Mon, 22 Sep 2014 04:41:55 +0000 Message-ID: <7594FB04B1934943A5C02806D1A2204B1D4558BC@ESESSMB209.ericsson.se> References: <7594FB04B1934943A5C02806D1A2204B1D44E72A@ESESSMB209.ericsson.se> In-Reply-To: Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-originating-ip: [153.88.183.149] Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Brightmail-Tracker: H4sIAAAAAAAAA+NgFnrILMWRmVeSWpSXmKPExsUyM+Jvje7UFfIhBl0HFSyWd+1gtFj7r53d gcljyu+NrB5LlvxkCmCK4rJJSc3JLEst0rdL4Mp4eXkNY8EP7orN7R2sDYy7ObsYOTkkBEwk JnWdYoGwxSQu3FvP1sXIxSEkcJRRYtrpf+wQzhJGifffvzB1MXJwsAlYSHT/0wZpEBEIk5h+ YgFYs7BAhMSZiQvYIeKREjOXb2aGsI0klmx8yARiswioStxY2QRWwyvgK7F62S6wGiGBqYwS F9f6gticAvoSP85/BZvJCHTQ91NrwHqZBcQlbj2ZzwRxqIDEkj3nmSFsUYmXj/+xQthKEmsP b2eBqNeRWLD7ExuErS2xbOFrZoi9ghInZz5hmcAoOgvJ2FlIWmYhaZmFpGUBI8sqRtHi1OLi 3HQjI73Uoszk4uL8PL281JJNjMA4Objlt9UOxoPPHQ8xCnAwKvHwLmiSDxFiTSwrrsw9xCjN waIkzrvw3LxgIYH0xJLU7NTUgtSi+KLSnNTiQ4xMHJxSDYwq3QcE3zWIKuv93fjjDeczP+uF r46LbrpaIcHW8sDlg5RZgDfXQc5EyVcnE6ef9X4c1HAo7sOc0nW/WcR3L3++4e65ddue3Ny3 uWBn3MpnIiXMc0QOVZTOWL6ybs3X1qqs1xy7w9ZH1j+dW9MkVuS3/O3XpgdBG07O7fj/4uCt v8e6fx6yMJTUVGIpzkg01GIuKk4EAIDlRRx0AgAA Archived-At: http://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/rtcweb/eVnPShcZ1KhBqxLO-SFfy7cP3tg Subject: Re: [rtcweb] Consent Freshness: Some suggestions for editorial clarifications X-BeenThere: rtcweb@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: Real-Time Communication in WEB-browsers working group list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 22 Sep 2014 04:42:01 -0000 Hi, >>Q1: >>----- >>=20 >>As STUN binding requests for consent are .sent unreliably, and are not=20 >>re-transmitted, I think it would be useful to have some explicit text=20 >>saying that individual requests (and/or their associated responses) may=20 >>get lost in the network, and that a sender must be prepared that a=20 >>response to such requestmay never arrive. >>=20 >>It may be obvious to us, but maybe not as clear to the first-time=20 >>reader of the draft. > >This depends on the underlying transport used. If its UDP as you said its = unreliable. For other >transports it is not the case. So I don't see a need= to add any text in this draft. I still think text would be useful (I have received questions about this).= =20 So, you could say: "If an unreliable transport is used,..." >>Q2: >>----- >>=20 >> ... >> >> >>Second, there is no explicit text on for how long the client keeps the=20 >>STUN transaction alive, i.e. for how long it waits for the response. >>=20 >>I assume that, after 30 seconds, the client does not need to maintain=20 >>state and wait for the response anymore. I think it would be useful to=20 >>explicitly indicate that, and also say that responses that are received=20 >>after that time must be discarded. > > Ok. Will mention that any responses received after 30 secs will be discar= ded. I think it needs to be more than a "mention" :) The STUN transaction state = machine needs to be clear to implementers. Regards, Christer From nobody Thu Sep 25 01:19:10 2014 Return-Path: X-Original-To: rtcweb@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: rtcweb@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 559701A02F9 for ; Thu, 25 Sep 2014 01:19:04 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.999 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.999 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 3Gw7tTvqRit2 for ; Thu, 25 Sep 2014 01:19:02 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail-wi0-x235.google.com (mail-wi0-x235.google.com [IPv6:2a00:1450:400c:c05::235]) (using TLSv1 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-RC4-SHA (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id ACC6A1A02E8 for ; Thu, 25 Sep 2014 01:19:01 -0700 (PDT) Received: by mail-wi0-f181.google.com with SMTP id z2so8849973wiv.8 for ; Thu, 25 Sep 2014 01:19:00 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20120113; h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:date:message-id:subject:from:to :cc:content-type; bh=LroShMiLrYzjAXVXVLIdhPi/gmY4LY1b3QvHlU1upIU=; b=vVy9J+Dkha33n7yv7HPtUC0tyBrLQyPE+wk9GEBVKj9EHWLqVAo2Vl8RFaeQ/f9KM5 Gsorid0f5g45Fc5Ne6SZbPbBpnb46CIf3GKWpbpheDUAKKLVEnX5E7n/pwm0bDu0UjdR V7QKLP1K8xKd/TvNNLm1QXhe6SuP+VI7TSEp4pu27UwVpdOgIzC5hvY3ho82Yr2PpwLj 8ugPZQ9F0SSI7eTcaQTYbesPTiH3/whx+93kBjQQA0Zc6UIxi27wbIXl42TMbpw/tfQB 3vBRYKRKG1ddxwBvtqALnso0fOu3Mx7nyUuJOhU7Hy7q5xEIiu1o6lsrKneWKqeAhYLM zQVg== MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Received: by 10.194.95.8 with SMTP id dg8mr14260306wjb.1.1411633140235; Thu, 25 Sep 2014 01:19:00 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.180.197.168 with HTTP; Thu, 25 Sep 2014 01:19:00 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: <7594FB04B1934943A5C02806D1A2204B1D44E72A@ESESSMB209.ericsson.se> References: <7594FB04B1934943A5C02806D1A2204B1D44E72A@ESESSMB209.ericsson.se> Date: Thu, 25 Sep 2014 13:49:00 +0530 Message-ID: From: Muthu Arul Mozhi Perumal To: Christer Holmberg Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=047d7bdc0f56e0856b0503df7322 Archived-At: http://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/rtcweb/-mri_B4rTwNe1bL8P0NWntXeMC4 Cc: "rtcweb@ietf.org" Subject: Re: [rtcweb] Consent Freshness: Some suggestions for editorial clarifications X-BeenThere: rtcweb@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: Real-Time Communication in WEB-browsers working group list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 25 Sep 2014 08:19:04 -0000 --047d7bdc0f56e0856b0503df7322 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hi Christer, On Wed, Sep 17, 2014 at 1:11 PM, Christer Holmberg < christer.holmberg@ericsson.com> wrote: > Hi, > > > > Based on feedback I receive from implementers, there are a couple of > clarifications I think would be useful in the consent freshness draft. > > > > > > > > Q1: > > ----- > > > > As STUN binding requests for consent are sent unreliably, and are not > re-transmitted, I think it would be useful to have some explicit text > saying that individual requests (and/or their associated responses) may g= et > lost in the network, and that a sender must be prepared that a response t= o > such requestmay never arrive. > > > > It may be obvious to us, but maybe not as clear to the first-time reader > of the draft. > > > > > > > > > > Q2: > > ----- > > > > Section 4.1 says: > > > > =E2=80=9CThat is, if a valid STUN binding response corresponding to one o= f the > STUN requests sent in the last 30 seconds > > has not been received from the remote peer's Transport > Address, the endpoint MUST cease transmission on that 5-tuple.=E2=80=9D > > > > First, I suggest the following clarification: > > > > s/=E2=80=9Dto one of the STUN requests sent in the last 30 seconds=E2=80= =9D/=E2=80=9Dto one of the > STUN requests (not necessarily the last one) sent in the last 30 seconds= =E2=80=9D. > > > > > > Second, there is no explicit text on for how long the client keeps the > STUN transaction alive, i.e. for how long it waits for the response. > > > > I assume that, after 30 seconds, the client does not need to maintain > state and wait for the response anymore. > =E2=80=8BMy understanding is that the sender doesn't need remember the requ= est for 30 sec, instead it needs to remember it only for RTT duration. If a matching response is received within that duration you have a 'hit'. If there is no 'hit' over the last 30 sec, consent expires. I agree this isn't clear in the current version. Muthu I think it would be useful to explicitly indicate that, and also say that > responses that are received after that time must be discarded. > > > > Thanks! > > > > Regards, > > > > Christer > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > rtcweb mailing list > rtcweb@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/rtcweb > > --047d7bdc0f56e0856b0503df7322 Content-Type: text/html; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Hi=C2=A0Christer,

On Wed, = Sep 17, 2014 at 1:11 PM, Christer Holmberg <christer.holmberg= @ericsson.com> wrote:

Hi,

=C2=A0

Based on feedback I receive from implementers, there= are a couple of clarifications I think would be useful in the consent fres= hness draft.

=C2=A0

=C2=A0

=C2=A0

Q1:

-----

=C2=A0

As STUN binding requests for consent are sent unreli= ably, and are not re-transmitted, I think it would be useful to have some e= xplicit text saying that individual requests (and/or their associated respo= nses) may get lost in the network, and that a sender must be prepared that a response to such requestmay neve= r arrive.

=C2=A0

It may be obvious to us, but maybe not as clear to t= he first-time reader of the draft.

=C2=A0

=C2=A0

=C2=A0

=C2=A0

Q2:

-----

=C2=A0

Section 4.1 says:

=C2=A0

=E2=80=9CThat is, if a va= lid STUN binding response corresponding to one of the STUN requests sent in= the last 30 seconds

=C2=A0=C2=A0 =C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2= =A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 has not been received from the remote pee= r's Transport Address, the endpoint MUST cease transmission on that 5-t= uple.=E2=80=9D

=C2=A0

First, I suggest the following clarification:=

=C2=A0

s/=E2=80=9Dto one of the = STUN requests sent in the last 30 seconds=E2=80=9D/=E2=80=9Dto one of the S= TUN requests (not necessarily the last one) sent in the last 30 seconds=E2= =80=9D.

=C2=A0

=C2=A0

Second, there is no explicit text on for how long th= e client keeps the STUN transaction alive, i.e. for how long it waits for t= he response.

=C2=A0

I assume that, after 30 seconds, the client does not= need to maintain state and wait for the response anymore.

=

=E2=80=8BMy understanding is= that the sender doesn't need remember the request for 30 sec, instead = it needs to remember it only for RTT duration. If a matching response is re= ceived within that duration you have a 'hit'. If there is no 'h= it' over the last 30 sec, consent expires.

=
I agree this isn't clear in the current versio= n.

Muthu

I think it would be useful to ex= plicitly indicate that, and also say that responses that are received after= that time must be discarded.

=C2=A0

Thanks!

=C2=A0

Regards,=

=C2=A0

Christer

=C2=A0

=C2=A0


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rtcweb mailing list
rtcweb@ietf.org
= https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/rtcweb


--047d7bdc0f56e0856b0503df7322-- From nobody Thu Sep 25 01:32:29 2014 Return-Path: X-Original-To: rtcweb@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: rtcweb@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3906F1A0299 for ; Thu, 25 Sep 2014 01:32:27 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -4.2 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-4.2 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-2.3, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id xcX8-Gsd19XR for ; Thu, 25 Sep 2014 01:32:25 -0700 (PDT) Received: from sesbmg23.ericsson.net (sesbmg23.ericsson.net [193.180.251.37]) (using TLSv1 with cipher DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 4FF541A0031 for ; Thu, 25 Sep 2014 01:32:24 -0700 (PDT) X-AuditID: c1b4fb25-f791c6d00000617b-9e-5423d315038c Received: from ESESSHC013.ericsson.se (Unknown_Domain [153.88.253.124]) by sesbmg23.ericsson.net (Symantec Mail Security) with SMTP id D3.DB.24955.513D3245; Thu, 25 Sep 2014 10:32:22 +0200 (CEST) Received: from ESESSMB209.ericsson.se ([169.254.9.136]) by ESESSHC013.ericsson.se ([153.88.183.57]) with mapi id 14.03.0174.001; Thu, 25 Sep 2014 10:32:21 +0200 From: Christer Holmberg To: Muthu Arul Mozhi Perumal Thread-Topic: [rtcweb] Consent Freshness: Some suggestions for editorial clarifications Thread-Index: AQHP2JlcIxJbv+HLeEKRM6mVcFFd6ZwRhFJw Date: Thu, 25 Sep 2014 08:32:20 +0000 Message-ID: <7594FB04B1934943A5C02806D1A2204B1D45A186@ESESSMB209.ericsson.se> References: <7594FB04B1934943A5C02806D1A2204B1D44E72A@ESESSMB209.ericsson.se> In-Reply-To: Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-originating-ip: [153.88.183.150] Content-Type: multipart/alternative; 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PC9ib2R5Pg0KPC9odG1sPg0K --_000_7594FB04B1934943A5C02806D1A2204B1D45A186ESESSMB209erics_-- From nobody Thu Sep 25 02:22:22 2014 Return-Path: X-Original-To: rtcweb@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: rtcweb@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id D678B1A1B7C for ; Thu, 25 Sep 2014 02:22:20 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.999 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.999 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id wL4OCWTgTMhg for ; Thu, 25 Sep 2014 02:22:19 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail-we0-x22c.google.com (mail-we0-x22c.google.com [IPv6:2a00:1450:400c:c03::22c]) (using TLSv1 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-RC4-SHA (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 8E6EB1A02ED for ; Thu, 25 Sep 2014 02:22:18 -0700 (PDT) Received: by mail-we0-f172.google.com with SMTP id p10so7209399wes.31 for ; Thu, 25 Sep 2014 02:22:17 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20120113; h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:date:message-id:subject:from:to :cc:content-type; bh=kNysm+bBPwk8AKAwT9saYjUEC9yg7mV+U/8X04jrkBw=; b=bXvhKmA3cqEIJJpQp6mq3nfwEfy6EIDNX/2yxpd+hEHMa3Fawh/IZAVZ+Is5CLU3S+ H4fiwiXpuj/ShicV4cVfuHyfALbfF2CyQKI/qB/CAWAajbNQHZgrAvjvv+r60vEi0VFq bk6E3DNUI2HvsG4VnGgzuvofx8ipHlDWLY7BA4Lexim9GB5LeD2B5tw9H6Pr2zWQWQAF ih0rPijwOxkXPYlawSLUlQzOy/sKuU7OCN3JmDklAQV212BYXn1PP02jnPoNf8uwJhrK 3P04DVNg+RNRLMv8tYM4kBT1XFc+bErSeAEgCLYTs3ACQbI1ZAl1iaGVR4P+PbW14gkU fpPg== MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Received: by 10.180.78.138 with SMTP id b10mr36363028wix.37.1411636937133; Thu, 25 Sep 2014 02:22:17 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.180.197.168 with HTTP; Thu, 25 Sep 2014 02:22:17 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: <7594FB04B1934943A5C02806D1A2204B1D45A186@ESESSMB209.ericsson.se> References: <7594FB04B1934943A5C02806D1A2204B1D44E72A@ESESSMB209.ericsson.se> <7594FB04B1934943A5C02806D1A2204B1D45A186@ESESSMB209.ericsson.se> Date: Thu, 25 Sep 2014 14:52:17 +0530 Message-ID: From: Muthu Arul Mozhi Perumal To: Christer Holmberg Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=f46d043c80203096890503e0561b Archived-At: http://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/rtcweb/5wKCvgvDgSk7k7o2bi7Ej_VYyCM Cc: "rtcweb@ietf.org" Subject: Re: [rtcweb] Consent Freshness: Some suggestions for editorial clarifications X-BeenThere: rtcweb@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: Real-Time Communication in WEB-browsers working group list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 25 Sep 2014 09:22:21 -0000 --f46d043c80203096890503e0561b Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable On Thu, Sep 25, 2014 at 2:02 PM, Christer Holmberg < christer.holmberg@ericsson.com> wrote: > Hi, > > Based on feedback I receive from implementers, there are a couple of > clarifications I think would be useful in the consent freshness draft. > > > > > > > > Q1: > > ----- > > > > As STUN binding requests for consent are sent unreliably, and are not > re-transmitted, I think it would be useful to have some explicit text > saying that individual requests (and/or their associated responses) may g= et > lost in the network, and that a sender must be prepared that a response t= o > such requestmay never arrive. > > > > It may be obvious to us, but maybe not as clear to the first-time reader > of the draft. > > > > > > > > > > Q2: > > ----- > > > > Section 4.1 says: > > > > =E2=80=9CThat is, if a valid STUN binding response corresponding to one o= f the > STUN requests sent in the last 30 seconds > > has not been received from the remote peer's Transport > Address, the endpoint MUST cease transmission on that 5-tuple.=E2=80=9D > > > > First, I suggest the following clarification: > > > > s/=E2=80=9Dto one of the STUN requests sent in the last 30 seconds=E2=80= =9D/=E2=80=9Dto one of the > STUN requests (not necessarily the last one) sent in the last 30 seconds= =E2=80=9D. > > > > > > Second, there is no explicit text on for how long the client keeps the > STUN transaction alive, i.e. for how long it waits for the response. > > > > I assume that, after 30 seconds, the client does not need to maintain > state and wait for the response anymore. > > > > =E2=80=8BMy understanding is that the sender doesn't need remember the re= quest for > 30 sec, instead it needs to remember it only for RTT duration. If a > matching response is received within that duration you have a 'hit'. If > there is no 'hit' over the last 30 sec, consent expires. > > > > I agree this isn't clear in the current version. > > > > How do you calculate the RTT? Based on previous transactions? > =E2=80=8BI should have said smoothed RTT. =E2=80=8BI believe that is what S= TUN and TCP currently use. > What if, for whatever reason, the roundtrip for a STUN binding > request/response takes longer that previously? You would discard the > response. > =E2=80=8BYes, but that shouldn't a problem for consent I think, because onl= y if there was no 'hit' over the last 30 sec would consent expire. > > > I think it is much more clear the specify a time. 30 seconds is a good > value, because if it takes longer the response is =E2=80=9Cunvalid=E2=80= =9D anyway. > =E2=80=8BI am okay with a fixed duration instead of a smoothed RTT. However= , 30 sec looks too long to me to remember the request, holding unnecessary resources (we just need one matching response over the last 30 sec). The other question is, do we really need to specify the duration to achieve interoperability here? I though Martin's opinion was that isn't needed to achieve interoperability, but I could have misread one of those discussions.. Muthu > > > Regards, > > > > Christer > > > > > > > > > > I think it would be useful to explicitly indicate that, and also say > that responses that are received after that time must be discarded. > > > > Thanks! > > > > Regards, > > > > Christer > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > rtcweb mailing list > rtcweb@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/rtcweb > > > --f46d043c80203096890503e0561b Content-Type: text/html; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
On Th= u, Sep 25, 2014 at 2:02 PM, Christer Holmberg <christer.holmberg@ericsson.com> wrote:

Hi,

Based on feedback I receive fro= m implementers, there are a couple of clarifications I think would be usefu= l in the consent freshness draft.

=C2=A0

=C2=A0

=C2=A0

Q1:

-----

=C2=A0

As STUN binding requests for co= nsent are sent unreliably, and are not re-transmitted, I think it would be = useful to have some explicit text saying that individual requests (and/or their associated responses) may get lost in the network, = and that a sender must be prepared that a response to such requestmay never= arrive.

=C2=A0

It may be obvious to us, but ma= ybe not as clear to the first-time reader of the draft.

=C2=A0

=C2=A0

=C2=A0

=C2=A0

Q2:

-----

=C2=A0

Section 4.1 says:=

=C2=A0

=E2=80=9CThat is, if a valid STUN binding response cor= responding to one of the STUN requests sent in the last 30 seconds

=C2=A0=C2=A0 =C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0= =C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 has not been receive= d from the remote peer's Transport Address, the endpoint MUST cease tra= nsmission on that 5-tuple.=E2=80=9D

=C2=A0

First, I suggest the following = clarification:

=C2=A0

s/=E2=80=9Dto one of the STUN requests sent in the las= t 30 seconds=E2=80=9D/=E2=80=9Dto one of the STUN requests (not necessarily= the last one) sent in the last 30 seconds=E2=80=9D.

=C2=A0

=C2=A0

Second, there is no explicit te= xt on for how long the client keeps the STUN transaction alive, i.e. for ho= w long it waits for the response.

=C2=A0

I assume that, after 30 seconds= , the client does not need to maintain state and wait for the response anym= ore.

=C2=A0

=E2=80= =8BMy understanding is that the sender doesn't need remember the reques= t for 30 sec, instead it needs to remember it only for RTT duration. If a m= atching response is received within that duration you have a 'hit'. If there is no 'hit' over the last 30 se= c, consent expires.

= =C2=A0

I agree= this isn't clear in the current version.

=C2=A0

How do you calculate the RTT? Based on previ= ous transactions?


=E2=80=8BI should have said smoot= hed RTT. =E2=80=8BI believe that is what STUN and TCP currently use.
<= br>
=C2=A0

= What if, for whatever reason, the roundtrip for a STUN binding request/resp= onse takes longer that previously? You would discard the response.


=E2=80= =8BYes, but that shouldn't a problem for consent I think, because only = if there was no 'hit' over the last 30 sec would consent expire.
=C2=A0

=

=C2=A0

I think it is much more clear the specify a = time. 30 seconds is a good value, because if it takes longer the response i= s =E2=80=9Cunvalid=E2=80=9D anyway.


=E2=80=8BI am o= kay with a fixed duration instead of a smoothed RTT. However, 30 sec looks = too long to me to remember the request, holding unnecessary resources (we j= ust need one matching response over the last 30 sec).=C2=A0

The other question is, do we really n= eed to specify the duration to achieve interoperability here? I though Mart= in's opinion was that isn't needed to achieve interoperability, but= I could have misread one of those discussions..
Muthu
=C2=A0
<= div>

=C2=A0

Regards,

=C2=A0

Christer

=C2=A0

=C2=A0

=C2=A0

=C2=A0

I think it would be useful to e= xplicitly indicate that, and also say that responses that are received afte= r that time must be discarded.

=C2=A0

Thanks!

=C2=A0

Regards,

=C2=A0

Christer

=C2=A0

=C2=A0


_______________________________________________
rtcweb mailing list
rtcweb@ietf.org = https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/rtcweb

=C2=A0


--f46d043c80203096890503e0561b-- From nobody Thu Sep 25 03:02:40 2014 Return-Path: X-Original-To: rtcweb@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: rtcweb@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id DBEFF1A6F27 for ; Thu, 25 Sep 2014 03:02:35 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -4.2 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-4.2 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-2.3, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id npGQH9W4PPGd for ; Thu, 25 Sep 2014 03:02:33 -0700 (PDT) Received: from sessmg23.ericsson.net (sessmg23.ericsson.net [193.180.251.45]) (using TLSv1 with cipher DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 0FB4D1A1BEE for ; Thu, 25 Sep 2014 03:02:31 -0700 (PDT) X-AuditID: c1b4fb2d-f793d6d000005356-d9-5423e835a038 Received: from ESESSHC019.ericsson.se (Unknown_Domain [153.88.253.124]) by sessmg23.ericsson.net (Symantec Mail Security) with SMTP id 5C.B7.21334.538E3245; Thu, 25 Sep 2014 12:02:29 +0200 (CEST) Received: from ESESSMB209.ericsson.se ([169.254.9.136]) by ESESSHC019.ericsson.se ([153.88.183.75]) with mapi id 14.03.0174.001; Thu, 25 Sep 2014 12:02:29 +0200 From: Christer Holmberg To: Muthu Arul Mozhi Perumal Thread-Topic: [rtcweb] Consent Freshness: Some suggestions for editorial clarifications Thread-Index: AQHP2JlcIxJbv+HLeEKRM6mVcFFd6ZwRhFJw///tWoCAACur8A== Date: Thu, 25 Sep 2014 10:02:28 +0000 Message-ID: <7594FB04B1934943A5C02806D1A2204B1D45A403@ESESSMB209.ericsson.se> References: <7594FB04B1934943A5C02806D1A2204B1D44E72A@ESESSMB209.ericsson.se> <7594FB04B1934943A5C02806D1A2204B1D45A186@ESESSMB209.ericsson.se> In-Reply-To: Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: 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(PDT) Received: by 10.180.197.168 with HTTP; Thu, 25 Sep 2014 03:20:20 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: <7594FB04B1934943A5C02806D1A2204B1D45A403@ESESSMB209.ericsson.se> References: <7594FB04B1934943A5C02806D1A2204B1D44E72A@ESESSMB209.ericsson.se> <7594FB04B1934943A5C02806D1A2204B1D45A186@ESESSMB209.ericsson.se> <7594FB04B1934943A5C02806D1A2204B1D45A403@ESESSMB209.ericsson.se> Date: Thu, 25 Sep 2014 15:50:20 +0530 Message-ID: From: Muthu Arul Mozhi Perumal To: Christer Holmberg Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=047d7b5d68c6d3ab2d0503e125f4 Archived-At: http://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/rtcweb/wC_oamlablyELf-loJ6-WdhbISg Cc: "rtcweb@ietf.org" Subject: Re: [rtcweb] Consent Freshness: Some suggestions for editorial clarifications X-BeenThere: rtcweb@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: Real-Time Communication in WEB-browsers working group list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 25 Sep 2014 10:20:36 -0000 --047d7b5d68c6d3ab2d0503e125f4 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hi Christer, On Thu, Sep 25, 2014 at 3:32 PM, Christer Holmberg < christer.holmberg@ericsson.com> wrote: > > > Hi, > > > > The reason for 30 seconds is the following: > > > > As we know, the sender needs to receive at least one response to a reques= t > sent within the last 30 seconds, or the consent expires. > > > > Assume you send a STUN request at time X, another one at time X+n etc. > > > > Now, within the 30 seconds, assume the only response (all other > requests/responses get lost in the network) you get is to the request you > sent at time X, and you receive it 28 seconds after you sent the request. > =E2=80=8BBut it is unlikely that someone will buffer the response for 28 se= c. If the connectivity was lost for so long, the response to the first request would have also got lost.. Muthu =E2=80=8B > > > Therefore, unless you wait for the response 30 seconds, consent will > expire =E2=80=93 EVEN if you did receive a response within 30 seconds. > > > > I do agree it very likely won=E2=80=99t happen in real life, but our stat= e > machines etc should be able to handle the =E2=80=9Cworst case=E2=80=9D sc= enario. > > > > Regards, > > > > Christer > > > > > > > > > > *From:* Muthu Arul Mozhi Perumal [mailto:muthu.arul@gmail.com] > *Sent:* 25 September 2014 12:22 > *To:* Christer Holmberg > *Cc:* rtcweb@ietf.org > *Subject:* Re: [rtcweb] Consent Freshness: Some suggestions for editorial > clarifications > > > > On Thu, Sep 25, 2014 at 2:02 PM, Christer Holmberg < > christer.holmberg@ericsson.com> wrote: > > Hi, > > Based on feedback I receive from implementers, there are a couple of > clarifications I think would be useful in the consent freshness draft. > > > > > > > > Q1: > > ----- > > > > As STUN binding requests for consent are sent unreliably, and are not > re-transmitted, I think it would be useful to have some explicit text > saying that individual requests (and/or their associated responses) may g= et > lost in the network, and that a sender must be prepared that a response t= o > such requestmay never arrive. > > > > It may be obvious to us, but maybe not as clear to the first-time reader > of the draft. > > > > > > > > > > Q2: > > ----- > > > > Section 4.1 says: > > > > =E2=80=9CThat is, if a valid STUN binding response corresponding to one o= f the > STUN requests sent in the last 30 seconds > > has not been received from the remote peer's Transport > Address, the endpoint MUST cease transmission on that 5-tuple.=E2=80=9D > > > > First, I suggest the following clarification: > > > > s/=E2=80=9Dto one of the STUN requests sent in the last 30 seconds=E2=80= =9D/=E2=80=9Dto one of the > STUN requests (not necessarily the last one) sent in the last 30 seconds= =E2=80=9D. > > > > > > Second, there is no explicit text on for how long the client keeps the > STUN transaction alive, i.e. for how long it waits for the response. > > > > I assume that, after 30 seconds, the client does not need to maintain > state and wait for the response anymore. > > > > =E2=80=8BMy understanding is that the sender doesn't need remember the re= quest for > 30 sec, instead it needs to remember it only for RTT duration. If a > matching response is received within that duration you have a 'hit'. If > there is no 'hit' over the last 30 sec, consent expires. > > > > I agree this isn't clear in the current version. > > > > How do you calculate the RTT? Based on previous transactions? > > > > =E2=80=8BI should have said smoothed RTT. =E2=80=8BI believe that is what= STUN and TCP > currently use. > > > > > > What if, for whatever reason, the roundtrip for a STUN binding > request/response takes longer that previously? You would discard the > response. > > > > =E2=80=8BYes, but that shouldn't a problem for consent I think, because o= nly if > there was no 'hit' over the last 30 sec would consent expire. > > > > > > I think it is much more clear the specify a time. 30 seconds is a good > value, because if it takes longer the response is =E2=80=9Cunvalid=E2=80= =9D anyway. > > > > =E2=80=8BI am okay with a fixed duration instead of a smoothed RTT. Howev= er, 30 > sec looks too long to me to remember the request, holding unnecessary > resources (we just need one matching response over the last 30 sec). > > > > The other question is, do we really need to specify the duration to > achieve interoperability here? I though Martin's opinion was that isn't > needed to achieve interoperability, but I could have misread one of those > discussions.. > > > > Muthu > > > > > > Regards, > > > > Christer > > > > > > > > > > I think it would be useful to explicitly indicate that, and also say > that responses that are received after that time must be discarded. > > > > Thanks! > > > > Regards, > > > > Christer > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > rtcweb mailing list > rtcweb@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/rtcweb > > > > > --047d7b5d68c6d3ab2d0503e125f4 Content-Type: text/html; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Hi=C2=A0Christer,

On Thu, Sep 25, 2014 at 3:32 PM, = Christer Holmberg <christer.holmberg@ericsson.com> wrote:

=C2=A0

Hi,

=C2=A0

The reason for 30 seconds is the following:<= u>

=C2=A0

As we know, the sender needs to receive at l= east one response to a request sent within the last 30 seconds, or the cons= ent expires.

=C2=A0

Assume you send a STUN request at time X, an= other one at time X+n etc.

=C2=A0

Now, within the 30 seconds, assume the only = response (all other requests/responses get lost in the network) you get is = to the request you sent at time X, and you receive it 28 seconds after you sent the reque= st.


=E2=80=8BBut it is unlikely that someone will buffer the = response for 28 sec. If the connectivity was lost for so long, the response= to the first request would have also got lost..

Muthu
=E2=80=8B
= =C2=A0

=C2=A0

Therefore, unless you wait for the response = 30 seconds, =C2=A0consent will expire =E2=80=93 EVEN if you did receive a r= esponse within 30 seconds.

=C2=A0

I do agree it very likely won=E2=80=99t happ= en in real life, but our state machines etc should be able to handle the = =E2=80=9Cworst case=E2=80=9D scenario.

=C2=A0

Regards,

=C2=A0

Christer

=C2=A0

=C2=A0

=C2=A0

=C2=A0

From: Muthu Arul Mozhi Perumal [ma= ilto:muthu.arul@g= mail.com]
Sent: 25 September 2014 12:22
To: Christer Holmberg
Cc: rtcweb@ietf= .org
Subject: Re: [rtcweb] Consent Freshness: Some suggestions for editor= ial clarifications

=C2=A0

On Thu,= Sep 25, 2014 at 2:02 PM, Christer Holmberg <christer.holmberg@ericsson.com= > wrote:

Hi,

Based on feedback I receive fro= m implementers, there are a couple of clarifications I think would be usefu= l in the consent freshness draft.

=C2=A0

=C2=A0

=C2=A0

Q1:

-----

=C2=A0

As STUN binding requests for co= nsent are sent unreliably, and are not re-transmitted, I think it would be = useful to have some explicit text saying that individual requests (and/or their associated responses) may get lost in the network, = and that a sender must be prepared that a response to such requestmay never= arrive.

=C2=A0

It may be obvious to us, but ma= ybe not as clear to the first-time reader of the draft.

=C2=A0

=C2=A0

=C2=A0

=C2=A0

Q2:

-----

=C2=A0

Section 4.1 says:=

=C2=A0

=E2=80=9CThat is, if a valid STUN binding response cor= responding to one of the STUN requests sent in the last 30 seconds

=C2=A0=C2=A0 =C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0= =C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 has not been receive= d from the remote peer's Transport Address, the endpoint MUST cease tra= nsmission on that 5-tuple.=E2=80=9D

=C2=A0

First, I suggest the following = clarification:

=C2=A0

s/=E2=80=9Dto one of the STUN requests sent in the las= t 30 seconds=E2=80=9D/=E2=80=9Dto one of the STUN requests (not necessarily= the last one) sent in the last 30 seconds=E2=80=9D.

=C2=A0

=C2=A0

Second, there is no explicit te= xt on for how long the client keeps the STUN transaction alive, i.e. for ho= w long it waits for the response.

=C2=A0

I assume that, after 30 seconds= , the client does not need to maintain state and wait for the response anym= ore.

=C2=A0

=E2=80= =8BMy understanding is that the sender doesn't need remember the reques= t for 30 sec, instead it needs to remember it only for RTT duration. If a matching response is received within that duration you have a 'hi= t'. If there is no 'hit' over the last 30 sec, consent expires.=

=C2=A0<= /span>

I agree= this isn't clear in the current version.

=C2=A0

How do you calculate the RTT? Based on previ= ous transactions?

=C2=A0

=E2=80= =8BI should have said smoothed RTT. =E2=80=8BI believe that is what STUN an= d TCP currently use.

=C2=A0

=C2=A0

What if, for whatever reason, the roundtrip = for a STUN binding request/response takes longer that previously? You would discard the response.

=C2=A0

=E2=80= =8BYes, but that shouldn't a problem for consent I think, because only = if there was no 'hit' over the last 30 sec would consent expire.=

=C2=A0

=C2=A0

I think it is much more clear the specify a = time. 30 seconds is a good value, because if it takes longer the response is =E2=80=9Cunvalid=E2=80=9D anyway.<= /u>

=C2=A0

=E2=80= =8BI am okay with a fixed duration instead of a smoothed RTT. However, 30 s= ec looks too long to me to remember the request, holding unnecessary resour= ces (we just need one matching response over the last 30 sec).=C2=A0

= =C2=A0

The oth= er question is, do we really need to specify the duration to achieve intero= perability here? I though Martin's opinion was that isn't needed to= achieve interoperability, but I could have misread one of those discussions..

= =C2=A0

Muthu

=C2=A0

=C2=A0

Regards,

=C2=A0

Christer

=C2=A0

=C2=A0

=C2=A0

=C2=A0

I think it would be useful to e= xplicitly indicate that, and also say that responses that are received afte= r that time must be discarded.

=C2=A0

Thanks!

=C2=A0

Regards,

=C2=A0

Christer

=C2=A0

=C2=A0


_______________________________________________
rtcweb mailing list
rtcweb@ietf.org = https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/rtcweb

=C2=A0

=C2=A0


--047d7b5d68c6d3ab2d0503e125f4-- From nobody Thu Sep 25 03:25:25 2014 Return-Path: X-Original-To: rtcweb@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: rtcweb@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id B03801A6F6F for ; Thu, 25 Sep 2014 03:25:23 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.6 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.6 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW=-0.7, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id z9Qx1M6eHXHs for ; Thu, 25 Sep 2014 03:25:21 -0700 (PDT) Received: from sessmg22.ericsson.net (sessmg22.ericsson.net [193.180.251.58]) (using TLSv1 with cipher DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 6F3F91A6F62 for ; Thu, 25 Sep 2014 03:25:20 -0700 (PDT) X-AuditID: c1b4fb3a-f79da6d0000008c7-07-5423ed8e18dd Received: from ESESSHC015.ericsson.se (Unknown_Domain [153.88.253.124]) by sessmg22.ericsson.net (Symantec Mail Security) with SMTP id D5.20.02247.E8DE3245; Thu, 25 Sep 2014 12:25:18 +0200 (CEST) Received: from ESESSMB209.ericsson.se ([169.254.9.136]) by ESESSHC015.ericsson.se ([153.88.183.63]) with mapi id 14.03.0174.001; Thu, 25 Sep 2014 12:25:18 +0200 From: Christer Holmberg To: Muthu Arul Mozhi Perumal Thread-Topic: [rtcweb] Consent Freshness: Some suggestions for editorial clarifications Thread-Index: AQHP2JlcIxJbv+HLeEKRM6mVcFFd6ZwRhFJw///tWoCAACur8P//5I0AgAAhrGA= Date: Thu, 25 Sep 2014 10:25:17 +0000 Message-ID: <7594FB04B1934943A5C02806D1A2204B1D45A4DC@ESESSMB209.ericsson.se> References: <7594FB04B1934943A5C02806D1A2204B1D44E72A@ESESSMB209.ericsson.se> <7594FB04B1934943A5C02806D1A2204B1D45A186@ESESSMB209.ericsson.se> <7594FB04B1934943A5C02806D1A2204B1D45A403@ESESSMB209.ericsson.se> In-Reply-To: Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-originating-ip: [153.88.183.154] Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="_000_7594FB04B1934943A5C02806D1A2204B1D45A4DCESESSMB209erics_" MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Brightmail-Tracker: H4sIAAAAAAAAA+NgFmphkeLIzCtJLcpLzFFi42KZGfG3RrfvrXKIwYuLGhZ/NvtZrP3Xzu7A 5LFz1l12jyVLfjIFMEVx2aSk5mSWpRbp2yVwZbz85V/w5gFTxeEJTg2MF64zdTFyckgImEgs 2zobyhaTuHBvPVsXIxeHkMBRRolL1/czQzhLGCUunv/E0sXIwcEmYCHR/U8bpEFEwFhiS8sv VhCbWUBd4s7ic+wgtrBAhMSZiQvYIWoiJWYu38wMYftJPNzdCmazCKhKLOs9DdbLK+ArsXVe F9TiVcwS28+9YQRJcAoEStxavp4FxGYEuu77qTVMEMvEJW49mQ91tYDEkj3nmSFsUYmXj/+x QthKEotuf4aqz5e4+v8EI8QyQYmTM5+wTGAUnYVk1CwkZbOQlM0CeplZQFNi/S59iBJFiSnd D9khbA2J1jlz2ZHFFzCyr2IULU4tLs5NNzLSSy3KTC4uzs/Ty0st2cQIjLaDW35b7WA8+Nzx EKMAB6MSD69CuXKIEGtiWXFl7iFGaQ4WJXHehefmBQsJpCeWpGanphakFsUXleakFh9iZOLg lGpg5L08daZN9OHdTcttlQKLRa0TkpLnOkx51CR3V+P4ilbLN9s2bhBeuIdjSf+jWZMubjIo mXiTdWNNGXv7leXhrJJpfO69N41Pmgn81LgrdEYnTHHPMmefC7kV/rdfHXvxf//DrKemsat6 0m4I/D2hGxa+aEHPbk9bo3eLkqLam0u+b81L2u9josRSnJFoqMVcVJwIAIe21ACXAgAA Archived-At: http://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/rtcweb/ixvu5rYNU9fUBhv5giNkMyVHQ1I Cc: "rtcweb@ietf.org" Subject: Re: [rtcweb] Consent Freshness: Some suggestions for editorial clarifications X-BeenThere: rtcweb@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: Real-Time Communication in WEB-browsers working group list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 25 Sep 2014 10:25:23 -0000 --_000_7594FB04B1934943A5C02806D1A2204B1D45A4DCESESSMB209erics_ Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 SGksDQoNClRoZSByZWFzb24gZm9yIDMwIHNlY29uZHMgaXMgdGhlIGZvbGxvd2luZzoNCg0KQXMg d2Uga25vdywgdGhlIHNlbmRlciBuZWVkcyB0byByZWNlaXZlIGF0IGxlYXN0IG9uZSByZXNwb25z ZSB0byBhIHJlcXVlc3Qgc2VudCB3aXRoaW4gdGhlIGxhc3QgMzAgc2Vjb25kcywgb3IgdGhlIGNv bnNlbnQgZXhwaXJlcy4NCg0KQXNzdW1lIHlvdSBzZW5kIGEgU1RVTiByZXF1ZXN0IGF0IHRpbWUg 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b2R5Pg0KPC9odG1sPg0K --_000_7594FB04B1934943A5C02806D1A2204B1D45A4DCESESSMB209erics_-- From nobody Fri Sep 26 00:33:19 2014 Return-Path: X-Original-To: rtcweb@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: rtcweb@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4DB501A1A6E for ; Fri, 26 Sep 2014 00:33:18 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: 1.245 X-Spam-Level: * X-Spam-Status: No, score=1.245 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_50=0.8, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, IP_NOT_FRIENDLY=0.334, SPF_PASS=-0.001, T_DKIM_INVALID=0.01, URIBL_DBL_ABUSE_REDIR=0.001, URIBL_DBL_REDIR=0.001] autolearn=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id T8v0dfMW0_o1 for ; Fri, 26 Sep 2014 00:33:17 -0700 (PDT) Received: from gproxy5-pub.mail.unifiedlayer.com (gproxy5-pub.mail.unifiedlayer.com [67.222.38.55]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with SMTP 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bh=QYZsXwYdub8t+kYrdDl9QDY1pnTGOvVBcpI79N/ELgM=; b=mavk6TSMTcStp5TATiqajGNcjo9N+j+xYDmIWIFF4dAIZjnJsjcfoVfHpojYa1BYCfIw+2xVfAZhKGjvNvmGA7sW/y5v759knz0x1pwE/DQVZ9FIc1TIL1KJX+OOkCor; Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:33625 helo=box817.bluehost.com) by box817.bluehost.com with esmtpa (Exim 4.82) (envelope-from ) id 1XXQ1d-0005qO-2k for rtcweb@ietf.org; Fri, 26 Sep 2014 01:33:09 -0600 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Date: Fri, 26 Sep 2014 01:33:06 -0600 From: jackie@sdiwc.info To: rtcweb@ietf.org Message-ID: <46e4b5697a6e9d258da84bb077614294@sdiwc.info> X-Sender: jackie@sdiwc.info User-Agent: Roundcube Webmail/0.9.5 X-Identified-User: {1337:box817.bluehost.com:sdiwcnet:sdiwc.info} {sentby:smtp auth 127.0.0.1 authed with jackie@sdiwc.info} Archived-At: http://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/rtcweb/c2B8AISK4H2EMD-_Z-hE1LZ_fMQ Subject: [rtcweb] Extended Submission Deadline: InfoSec2014 - Malaysia! X-BeenThere: rtcweb@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: Real-Time Communication in WEB-browsers working group list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 26 Sep 2014 07:33:18 -0000 The International Conference on Information Security and Cyber Forensics (InfoSec2014) Universiti Sultan Zainal Abidin (UniSZA), Kuala Terengganu, Malaysia October 8-10, 2014 http://bit.ly/1ygCEdd All registered papers will be included in the publisher's Digital Library =============================================================== The conference aims to enable researchers build connections between different digital applications. The event will be held over three days, with presentations delivered by researchers from the international community, including presentations from keynote speakers and state-of-the-art lectures. TOPICS ARE NOT LIMITED TO: :: Cyber Security :: Distributed and Pervasive Systems Security :: Formal Methods Application in Security :: Incident Handling and Penetration Testing :: Multimedia and Document Security :: Privacy issues :: Secure Software Development, Architecture and Outsourcing :: Security in Cloud Computing :: Security of Web-based Applications and Services :: VOIP, Wireless and Telecommunications Network Security :: Enterprise Systems Security :: Hardware-Based security :: Legal Issues :: Operating Systems and Database Security :: SCADA and Embedded systems security :: Security for Future Networks :: Security in Social Networks :: Security protocols :: Digital Forensic :: Anti-Forensics and Anti-Anti-Forensics Techniques :: Data leakage, Data protection and Database forensics :: Executable Content and Content Filtering :: Forensics of Virtual and Cloud Environments :: Investigation of Insider Attacks :: Malware forensics and Anti-Malware techniques :: New threats and Non-Traditional approaches :: Cyber-Crimes :: Evidentiary Aspects of Digital Forensics :: File System and Memory Analysis Multimedia Forensic :: Information Hiding :: Large-Scale Investigations :: Network Forensics and Traffic Analysis Hardware Vulnerabilities and Device Forensics :: Information Assurance and Security Management :: Business Continuity & Disaster Recovery Planning :: Critical Infrastructure Protection :: Digital Rights Management and Intellectual Property Protection :: Fraud Management :: Laws and Regulations :: Threats, Vulnerabilities, and Risk Management :: Corporate Governance :: Decidability and Complexity :: Economics of Security :: Identity Management :: Security Policies and Trust Management :: Cyber Peacefare and Physical Security :: Authentication and Access Control Systems :: Biometrics standards and standardization :: Electronic Passports, National ID and Smart Card Security :: Social engineering :: Template Protection and Liveliness detection :: Biometrics Applications :: Cyber Peacefare Trends and Approaches :: New theories and algorithms in biometrics :: Surveillance Systems Researchers are encouraged to submit their work electronically. All papers will be fully refereed by a minimum of two specialized referees. Before final acceptance, all referees comments must be considered. PAPER SUBMISSION URL: http://bit.ly/1rbysrc IMPORTANT DATES =============== Extended Submission Deadline : September 30, 2014 Notification of Acceptance : 2-4 weeks from the submission date Camera Ready Submission : October 2, 2014 Registration Deadline : October 2, 2014 Conference Dates : October 8-10, 2014 From nobody Fri Sep 26 01:31:05 2014 Return-Path: X-Original-To: rtcweb@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: rtcweb@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id E36BD1A009E for ; Fri, 26 Sep 2014 01:31:00 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.685 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.685 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RP_MATCHES_RCVD=-0.786] autolearn=ham Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id pGpjps4pLB0E for ; Fri, 26 Sep 2014 01:30:56 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mork.alvestrand.no (mork.alvestrand.no [IPv6:2001:700:1:2::117]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2101E1A0195 for ; Fri, 26 Sep 2014 01:30:56 -0700 (PDT) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by mork.alvestrand.no (Postfix) with ESMTP id 291CF7C41E8 for ; Fri, 26 Sep 2014 10:30:55 +0200 (CEST) X-Virus-Scanned: Debian amavisd-new at alvestrand.no Received: from mork.alvestrand.no ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (mork.alvestrand.no [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 7FE8BqG5cq5a for ; Fri, 26 Sep 2014 10:30:52 +0200 (CEST) Received: from hta-hippo.lul.corp.google.com (unknown [IPv6:2620:0:1043:1:75ad:e5d6:3938:e129]) by mork.alvestrand.no (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 5F4887C41D1 for ; Fri, 26 Sep 2014 10:30:52 +0200 (CEST) Message-ID: <5425243C.8010305@alvestrand.no> Date: Fri, 26 Sep 2014 10:30:52 +0200 From: Harald Alvestrand User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; Linux x86_64; rv:31.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/31.1.2 MIME-Version: 1.0 To: rtcweb@ietf.org References: <7594FB04B1934943A5C02806D1A2204B1D44E72A@ESESSMB209.ericsson.se> <7594FB04B1934943A5C02806D1A2204B1D45A186@ESESSMB209.ericsson.se> <7594FB04B1934943A5C02806D1A2204B1D45A403@ESESSMB209.ericsson.se> <7594FB04B1934943A5C02806D1A2204B1D45A4DC@ESESSMB209.ericsson.se> In-Reply-To: <7594FB04B1934943A5C02806D1A2204B1D45A4DC@ESESSMB209.ericsson.se> Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="------------050405070706090605040109" Archived-At: http://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/rtcweb/He21kFYCgiV7lELmuPvarZDxfW8 Subject: Re: [rtcweb] Consent Freshness: Some suggestions for editorial clarifications X-BeenThere: rtcweb@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: Real-Time Communication in WEB-browsers working group list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 26 Sep 2014 08:31:01 -0000 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --------------050405070706090605040109 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit On 09/25/2014 12:25 PM, Christer Holmberg wrote: > > Hi, > > The reason for 30 seconds is the following: > > As we know, the sender needs to receive at least one response to a > request sent within the last 30 seconds, or the consent expires. > > Assume you send a STUN request at time X, another one at time X+n etc. > > Now, within the 30 seconds, assume the only response (all other > requests/responses get lost in the network) you get is to the > request you sent at time X, and you receive it 28 seconds after > you sent the request. > > ​ But it is unlikely that someone will buffer the response for 28 sec. > If the connectivity was lost for so long, the response to the first > request would have also got lost.. > I think people who have experimented with the "walk behind a tree" scenario in 3G networks have reported seeing packets delayed for 10 seconds in real networks. Of course, if you send requests at X, X+5, X+10, X+15 and so on, you're likely to get the one at X+15 as well as the one at X once connectivity resumes. Experimentation would be good here.... > Unlikely, yes. But, if it happens, and consent expires (because the > sender did not wait for 30 seconds), who to blame? > > The sender will say “you buffered the response too long”, and the > receiver will say “you did get the response within 30 seconds”. > > I am trying to avoid such situations, because both parties will say > that they implement the draft correctly. > > Of course, if you send a request at time X, and another one at time > X+N, if you get a response to the X+N request you can terminate the > state for the X request also. > > So, in reality, I doubt there will be cases where the state lives for > 30 seconds. > > Regards, > > Christer > > Therefore, unless you wait for the response 30 seconds, consent > will expire – EVEN if you did receive a response within 30 seconds. > > I do agree it very likely won’t happen in real life, but our state > machines etc should be able to handle the “worst case” scenario. > > Regards, > > Christer > > *From:*Muthu Arul Mozhi Perumal [mailto:muthu.arul@gmail.com > ] > *Sent:* 25 September 2014 12:22 > *To:* Christer Holmberg > *Cc:* rtcweb@ietf.org > *Subject:* Re: [rtcweb] Consent Freshness: Some suggestions for > editorial clarifications > > On Thu, Sep 25, 2014 at 2:02 PM, Christer Holmberg > > wrote: > > Hi, > > Based on feedback I receive from implementers, there are a > couple of clarifications I think would be useful in the > consent freshness draft. > > Q1: > > ----- > > As STUN binding requests for consent are sent unreliably, > and are not re-transmitted, I think it would be useful to > have some explicit text saying that individual requests > (and/or their associated responses) may get lost in the > network, and that a sender must be prepared that a > response to such requestmay never arrive. > > It may be obvious to us, but maybe not as clear to the > first-time reader of the draft. > > Q2: > > ----- > > Section 4.1 says: > > “That is, if a valid STUN binding response corresponding > to one of the STUN requests sent in the last 30 seconds > > has not been received from the remote peer's > Transport Address, the endpoint MUST cease transmission on > that 5-tuple.” > > First, I suggest the following clarification: > > s/”to one of the STUN requests sent in the last 30 > seconds”/”to one of the STUN requests (not necessarily the > last one) sent in the last 30 seconds”. > > Second, there is no explicit text on for how long the > client keeps the STUN transaction alive, i.e. for how long > it waits for the response. > > I assume that, after 30 seconds, the client does not need > to maintain state and wait for the response anymore. > > ​My understanding is that the sender doesn't need remember the > request for 30 sec, instead it needs to remember it only for > RTT duration. If a matching response is received within that > duration you have a 'hit'. If there is no 'hit' over the last > 30 sec, consent expires. > > I agree this isn't clear in the current version. > > How do you calculate the RTT? Based on previous transactions? > > ​I should have said smoothed RTT. ​I believe that is what STUN and > TCP currently use. > > What if, for whatever reason, the roundtrip for a STUN binding > request/response takes longer that previously? You would > discard the response. > > ​Yes, but that shouldn't a problem for consent I think, because > only if there was no 'hit' over the last 30 sec would consent expire. > > I think it is much more clear the specify a time. 30 seconds > is a good value, because if it takes longer the response is > “unvalid” anyway. > > ​I am okay with a fixed duration instead of a smoothed RTT. > However, 30 sec looks too long to me to remember the request, > holding unnecessary resources (we just need one matching response > over the last 30 sec). > > The other question is, do we really need to specify the duration > to achieve interoperability here? I though Martin's opinion was > that isn't needed to achieve interoperability, but I could have > misread one of those discussions.. > > Muthu > > Regards, > > Christer > > I think it would be useful to explicitly indicate that, > and also say that responses that are received after that > time must be discarded. > > Thanks! > > Regards, > > Christer > > > _______________________________________________ > rtcweb mailing list > rtcweb@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/rtcweb > > > > _______________________________________________ > rtcweb mailing list > rtcweb@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/rtcweb --------------050405070706090605040109 Content-Type: text/html; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit
On 09/25/2014 12:25 PM, Christer Holmberg wrote:

Hi,

 

The reason for 30 seconds is the following:

 

As we know, the sender needs to receive at least one response to a request sent within the last 30 seconds, or the consent expires.

 

Assume you send a STUN request at time X, another one at time X+n etc.

 

Now, within the 30 seconds, assume the only response (all other requests/responses get lost in the network) you get is to the request you sent at time X, and you receive it 28 seconds after you sent the request.

 

​ But it is unlikely that someone will buffer the response for 28 sec. If the connectivity was lost for so long, the response to the first request would have also got lost..


I think people who have experimented with the "walk behind a tree" scenario in 3G networks have reported seeing packets delayed for 10 seconds in real networks.

Of course, if you send requests at X, X+5, X+10, X+15 and so on, you're likely to get the one at X+15 as well as the one at X once connectivity resumes.

Experimentation would be good here....

 

Unlikely, yes. But, if it happens, and consent expires (because the sender did not wait for 30 seconds), who to blame?

 

The sender will say “you buffered the response too long”, and the receiver will say “you did get the response within 30 seconds”.

 

I am trying to avoid such situations, because both parties will say that they implement the draft correctly.

 

Of course, if you send a request at time X, and another one at time X+N, if you get a response to the X+N request you can terminate the state for the X request also.

 

So, in reality, I doubt there will be cases where the state lives for 30 seconds.

 

Regards,

 

Christer

 

 

 

 

 

Therefore, unless you wait for the response 30 seconds,  consent will expire – EVEN if you did receive a response within 30 seconds.

 

I do agree it very likely won’t happen in real life, but our state machines etc should be able to handle the “worst case” scenario.

 

Regards,

 

Christer

 

 

 

 

From: Muthu Arul Mozhi Perumal [mailto:muthu.arul@gmail.com]
Sent: 25 September 2014 12:22
To: Christer Holmberg
Cc: rtcweb@ietf.org
Subject: Re: [rtcweb] Consent Freshness: Some suggestions for editorial clarifications

 

On Thu, Sep 25, 2014 at 2:02 PM, Christer Holmberg <christer.holmberg@ericsson.com> wrote:

Hi,

Based on feedback I receive from implementers, there are a couple of clarifications I think would be useful in the consent freshness draft.

 

 

 

Q1:

-----

 

As STUN binding requests for consent are sent unreliably, and are not re-transmitted, I think it would be useful to have some explicit text saying that individual requests (and/or their associated responses) may get lost in the network, and that a sender must be prepared that a response to such requestmay never arrive.

 

It may be obvious to us, but maybe not as clear to the first-time reader of the draft.

 

 

 

 

Q2:

-----

 

Section 4.1 says:

 

“That is, if a valid STUN binding response corresponding to one of the STUN requests sent in the last 30 seconds

                has not been received from the remote peer's Transport Address, the endpoint MUST cease transmission on that 5-tuple.”

 

First, I suggest the following clarification:

 

s/”to one of the STUN requests sent in the last 30 seconds”/”to one of the STUN requests (not necessarily the last one) sent in the last 30 seconds”.

 

 

Second, there is no explicit text on for how long the client keeps the STUN transaction alive, i.e. for how long it waits for the response.

 

I assume that, after 30 seconds, the client does not need to maintain state and wait for the response anymore.

 

​My understanding is that the sender doesn't need remember the request for 30 sec, instead it needs to remember it only for RTT duration. If a matching response is received within that duration you have a 'hit'. If there is no 'hit' over the last 30 sec, consent expires.

 

I agree this isn't clear in the current version.

 

How do you calculate the RTT? Based on previous transactions?

 

​I should have said smoothed RTT. ​I believe that is what STUN and TCP currently use.

 

 

What if, for whatever reason, the roundtrip for a STUN binding request/response takes longer that previously? You would discard the response.

 

​Yes, but that shouldn't a problem for consent I think, because only if there was no 'hit' over the last 30 sec would consent expire.

 

 

I think it is much more clear the specify a time. 30 seconds is a good value, because if it takes longer the response is “unvalid” anyway.

 

​I am okay with a fixed duration instead of a smoothed RTT. However, 30 sec looks too long to me to remember the request, holding unnecessary resources (we just need one matching response over the last 30 sec). 

 

The other question is, do we really need to specify the duration to achieve interoperability here? I though Martin's opinion was that isn't needed to achieve interoperability, but I could have misread one of those discussions..

 

Muthu

 

 

Regards,

 

Christer

 

 

 

 

I think it would be useful to explicitly indicate that, and also say that responses that are received after that time must be discarded.

 

Thanks!

 

Regards,

 

Christer

 

 


_______________________________________________
rtcweb mailing list
rtcweb@ietf.org
https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/rtcweb

 

 

 



_______________________________________________
rtcweb mailing list
rtcweb@ietf.org
https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/rtcweb

--------------050405070706090605040109-- From nobody Fri Sep 26 02:11:49 2014 Return-Path: X-Original-To: rtcweb@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: rtcweb@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id A61F21A1AA4 for ; Fri, 26 Sep 2014 02:11:47 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -4.2 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-4.2 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-2.3, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id s2OqZBixOldX for ; Fri, 26 Sep 2014 02:11:41 -0700 (PDT) Received: from sessmg23.ericsson.net (sessmg23.ericsson.net [193.180.251.45]) (using TLSv1 with cipher DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 433A81A1A7F for ; Fri, 26 Sep 2014 02:11:40 -0700 (PDT) X-AuditID: c1b4fb2d-f793d6d000005356-ef-54252dcab2e1 Received: from ESESSHC016.ericsson.se (Unknown_Domain [153.88.253.124]) by sessmg23.ericsson.net (Symantec Mail Security) with SMTP id A3.BC.21334.ACD25245; Fri, 26 Sep 2014 11:11:38 +0200 (CEST) Received: from ESESSMB209.ericsson.se ([169.254.9.136]) by ESESSHC016.ericsson.se ([153.88.183.66]) with mapi id 14.03.0174.001; Fri, 26 Sep 2014 11:11:38 +0200 From: Christer Holmberg To: Harald Alvestrand , "rtcweb@ietf.org" Thread-Topic: [rtcweb] Consent Freshness: Some suggestions for editorial clarifications Thread-Index: AQHP2JlcIxJbv+HLeEKRM6mVcFFd6ZwRhFJw///tWoCAACur8P//5I0AgAAhrGCAAVITAIAAK7rQ Date: Fri, 26 Sep 2014 09:11:36 +0000 Message-ID: <7594FB04B1934943A5C02806D1A2204B1D45C9DC@ESESSMB209.ericsson.se> References: <7594FB04B1934943A5C02806D1A2204B1D44E72A@ESESSMB209.ericsson.se> <7594FB04B1934943A5C02806D1A2204B1D45A186@ESESSMB209.ericsson.se> <7594FB04B1934943A5C02806D1A2204B1D45A403@ESESSMB209.ericsson.se> <7594FB04B1934943A5C02806D1A2204B1D45A4DC@ESESSMB209.ericsson.se> <5425243C.8010305@alvestrand.no> In-Reply-To: <5425243C.8010305@alvestrand.no> Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-originating-ip: [153.88.183.150] Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="_000_7594FB04B1934943A5C02806D1A2204B1D45C9DCESESSMB209erics_" MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Brightmail-Tracker: H4sIAAAAAAAAA+NgFvrBLMWRmVeSWpSXmKPExsUyM+Jvje4pXdUQg3/nJC2O9XWxWaz9187u wORxZcIVVo8lS34yBTBFcdmkpOZklqUW6dslcGVMWXecveBAF3PFinNfGBsY5zQwdzFycEgI mEicWpPVxcgJZIpJXLi3ng3EFhI4yigx438AhL2EUeLL8zSQcjYBC4nuf9ogYRGBYIne5+8Z QWxhgQiJMxMXsEPEIyVmLt/MDGFHSRzunAQWZxFQlei5OYcFxOYV8JXomb0CyOYCGj+RRaJv 1m8mkASngK7Ej4dzwW5gBLrn+6k1YHFmAXGJW0/mM0HcKSCxZM95ZghbVOLl43+sELaSxIrt lxgh6vMlfq//xwSxTFDi5MwnLBMYRWYhGTULSdksJGWzgN5kFtCUWL9LH6JEUWJK90N2CFtD onXOXHZk8QWM7KsYRYtTi4tz042M9VKLMpOLi/Pz9PJSSzYxAqPq4JbfujsYV792PMQowMGo xMO74IRKiBBrYllxZe4hRmkOFiVx3kXn5gULCaQnlqRmp6YWpBbFF5XmpBYfYmTi4JRqYLTZ /D3igXbtVK7N/ZVH73Cxby6Tu6/P5GC2Mkvp6Qk7B+3NJyXZs5o+OZ45LmViYcmbvLDa0ef5 E6fE7hcRF4OWZbTKXGi/WbrkjLKcq/HJxHcng/Sdm1SaddUd869WR3J7LdXVCLnMvVFqRpsp M+vPmxuPz5EI+79QXOH4YnVmv4oVGy/NUWIpzkg01GIuKk4EAP1tIzaLAgAA Archived-At: http://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/rtcweb/7Ztjd3ncKCHBtcxHOeANgftj-TY Subject: Re: [rtcweb] Consent Freshness: Some suggestions for editorial clarifications X-BeenThere: rtcweb@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: Real-Time Communication in WEB-browsers working group list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 26 Sep 2014 09:11:47 -0000 --_000_7594FB04B1934943A5C02806D1A2204B1D45C9DCESESSMB209erics_ Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 SGksDQpUaGUgcmVhc29uIGZvciAzMCBzZWNvbmRzIGlzIHRoZSBmb2xsb3dpbmc6DQoNCkFzIHdl 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score=-2.685 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RP_MATCHES_RCVD=-0.786] autolearn=ham Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id VEyY3Zye2KE5 for ; Fri, 26 Sep 2014 05:34:33 -0700 (PDT) Received: from smtp-us.alcatel-lucent.com (us-hpswa-esg-01.alcatel-lucent.com [135.245.18.29]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 233211A1BA6 for ; Fri, 26 Sep 2014 05:34:31 -0700 (PDT) Received: from us70tusmtp1.zam.alcatel-lucent.com (unknown [135.5.2.63]) by Websense Email Security Gateway with ESMTPS id 1CDD160EB30CF; Fri, 26 Sep 2014 12:34:28 +0000 (GMT) Received: from US70UWXCHHUB01.zam.alcatel-lucent.com (us70uwxchhub01.zam.alcatel-lucent.com [135.5.2.48]) by us70tusmtp1.zam.alcatel-lucent.com (GMO) with ESMTP id s8QCYSPp014260 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=AES128-SHA bits=128 verify=FAIL); Fri, 26 Sep 2014 08:34:29 -0400 Received: from US70UWXCHMBA06.zam.alcatel-lucent.com ([169.254.11.223]) by US70UWXCHHUB01.zam.alcatel-lucent.com ([135.5.2.48]) with mapi id 14.03.0195.001; Fri, 26 Sep 2014 08:34:28 -0400 From: "Makaraju, Maridi Raju (Raju)" To: Harald Alvestrand , "rtcweb@ietf.org" Thread-Topic: [rtcweb] Consent Freshness: Some suggestions for editorial clarifications Thread-Index: AQHP2JllehX2DOf3vEWZ5hrfab4e0pwRyEwAgAAN9YCAAAs6AIABNc5WgABC4SA= Date: Fri, 26 Sep 2014 12:34:27 +0000 Message-ID: References: <7594FB04B1934943A5C02806D1A2204B1D44E72A@ESESSMB209.ericsson.se> <7594FB04B1934943A5C02806D1A2204B1D45A186@ESESSMB209.ericsson.se> <7594FB04B1934943A5C02806D1A2204B1D45A403@ESESSMB209.ericsson.se> <7594FB04B1934943A5C02806D1A2204B1D45A4DC@ESESSMB209.ericsson.se> <5425243C.8010305@alvestrand.no> In-Reply-To: <5425243C.8010305@alvestrand.no> Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-originating-ip: [135.5.27.17] Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="_000_E1FE4C082A89A246A11D7F32A95A17828E5AAB7EUS70UWXCHMBA06z_" MIME-Version: 1.0 Archived-At: http://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/rtcweb/zs3lLI70PeDZ0w4_JFkymH2pN1A Subject: Re: [rtcweb] Consent Freshness: Some suggestions for editorial clarifications X-BeenThere: rtcweb@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: Real-Time Communication in WEB-browsers working group list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 26 Sep 2014 12:34:37 -0000 --_000_E1FE4C082A89A246A11D7F32A95A17828E5AAB7EUS70UWXCHMBA06z_ Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 SSB0aGluayBwZW9wbGUgd2hvIGhhdmUgZXhwZXJpbWVudGVkIHdpdGggdGhlICJ3YWxrIGJlaGlu ZCBhIHRyZWUiIHNjZW5hcmlvIGluIDNHIG5ldHdvcmtzIGhhdmUgcmVwb3J0ZWQgc2VlaW5nIHBh Y2tldHMgZGVsYXllZCBmb3IgMTAgc2Vjb25kcyBpbiByZWFsIG5ldHdvcmtzLg0KW1JhanVdIFJp 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NO X-Spam-Score: -2 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id eTu5NPxztgD0 for ; Fri, 26 Sep 2014 08:03:47 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail-la0-x232.google.com (mail-la0-x232.google.com [IPv6:2a00:1450:4010:c03::232]) (using TLSv1 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-RC4-SHA (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 97C731A00D8 for ; Fri, 26 Sep 2014 08:03:46 -0700 (PDT) Received: by mail-la0-f50.google.com with SMTP id el20so3006771lab.37 for ; Fri, 26 Sep 2014 08:03:44 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20120113; h=mime-version:date:message-id:subject:from:to:content-type; bh=TTpCWzvpP9PyOF06QPwMJjwSH2qqfM9QCtpOPNqj4CM=; b=HEjCfi/9rpH7A6YA1Kr8lD7/k7Ob1lGMA9EcbmC3JkmvUoL+fiIzpS4LR5P5AKFlDV yeIqLaXT0oNH+4YR0yQ794kpPSSVvC3tqRShfvMF7nEdY8nMF9XOy/pKDq5fVHZn8UNo Jb5xQAdP1SD4Kd2GwZyU+DnLHTSl6NdIin0qF+syZsZEfHt3Ni7MMqFYjPq1CESKkils ofl3TrqHGUn989n1YKEzCV9l5Dd9RYhCgxXONP/hhn24VOszbjrwguyW1HHr0InNN5oT 0OdHVEvH5OUNeIz58gXvkdcOYqvZjqWM5GW6jE1WJg6f1J5M22baYEQfIbQZKDrmczMm 4GiQ== MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Received: by 10.112.34.239 with SMTP id c15mr19745559lbj.64.1411743824796; Fri, 26 Sep 2014 08:03:44 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.25.166.75 with HTTP; Fri, 26 Sep 2014 08:03:44 -0700 (PDT) Date: Fri, 26 Sep 2014 16:03:44 +0100 Message-ID: From: Martin Thomson To: "rtcweb@ietf.org" Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Archived-At: http://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/rtcweb/Vu03Kq8qcDwl6WIOUQxbtl1Vc4Y Subject: [rtcweb] ice options and jsep answers X-BeenThere: rtcweb@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: Real-Time Communication in WEB-browsers working group list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 26 Sep 2014 15:03:48 -0000 Unknown ice options cause the suppression of aggressive nomination. This isn't a problem if the answerer receives this, but it is if the offerer does. If the application decides to wait for candidates to arrive, should we remove trickle from ice-options? On the offer, this probably doesn't help, and it is actually counterproductive, but when we generate answers, do we want to avoid suppressing aggressive nomination by removing this as the last candidate arrives? Or do we want to just rely on canTrickle? --Martin From nobody Sun Sep 28 14:48:53 2014 Return-Path: X-Original-To: rtcweb@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: rtcweb@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id EBE3B1A6EE6; Sun, 28 Sep 2014 14:48:49 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.9 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.9 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9] autolearn=ham Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 3WZcMtr6xN3V; Sun, 28 Sep 2014 14:48:48 -0700 (PDT) Received: from ietfa.amsl.com (localhost [IPv6:::1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id BBBF31A6ED8; Sun, 28 Sep 2014 14:48:48 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: internet-drafts@ietf.org To: i-d-announce@ietf.org X-Test-IDTracker: no X-IETF-IDTracker: 5.6.3.p1 Auto-Submitted: auto-generated Precedence: bulk Message-ID: <20140928214848.26846.63656.idtracker@ietfa.amsl.com> Date: Sun, 28 Sep 2014 14:48:48 -0700 Archived-At: http://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/rtcweb/ZN16Scz41RQOleNfJq-K-dplnKY Cc: rtcweb@ietf.org Subject: [rtcweb] I-D Action: draft-ietf-rtcweb-data-protocol-08.txt X-BeenThere: rtcweb@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 List-Id: Real-Time Communication in WEB-browsers working group list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sun, 28 Sep 2014 21:48:50 -0000 A New Internet-Draft is available from the on-line Internet-Drafts directories. This draft is a work item of the Real-Time Communication in WEB-browsers Working Group of the IETF. Title : WebRTC Data Channel Establishment Protocol Authors : Randell Jesup Salvatore Loreto Michael Tuexen Filename : draft-ietf-rtcweb-data-protocol-08.txt Pages : 12 Date : 2014-09-28 Abstract: The WebRTC framework specifies protocol support for direct interactive rich communication using audio, video, and data between two peers' web-browsers. This document specifies a simple protocol for establishing symmetric Data Channels between the peers. It uses a two way handshake and allows sending of user data without waiting for the handshake to complete. The IETF datatracker status page for this draft is: https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-rtcweb-data-protocol/ There's also a htmlized version available at: http://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-rtcweb-data-protocol-08 A diff from the previous version is available at: http://www.ietf.org/rfcdiff?url2=draft-ietf-rtcweb-data-protocol-08 Please note that it may take a couple of minutes from the time of submission until the htmlized version and diff are available at tools.ietf.org. Internet-Drafts are also available by anonymous FTP at: ftp://ftp.ietf.org/internet-drafts/ From nobody Sun Sep 28 14:49:07 2014 Return-Path: X-Original-To: rtcweb@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: rtcweb@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2E1A31A6EFC; Sun, 28 Sep 2014 14:49:00 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.9 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.9 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9] autolearn=ham Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 1G44fk-BoMV6; Sun, 28 Sep 2014 14:48:58 -0700 (PDT) Received: from ietfa.amsl.com (localhost [IPv6:::1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 747071A6EE8; Sun, 28 Sep 2014 14:48:58 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: internet-drafts@ietf.org To: i-d-announce@ietf.org X-Test-IDTracker: no X-IETF-IDTracker: 5.6.3.p1 Auto-Submitted: auto-generated Precedence: bulk Message-ID: <20140928214858.1041.33523.idtracker@ietfa.amsl.com> Date: Sun, 28 Sep 2014 14:48:58 -0700 Archived-At: http://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/rtcweb/lqaD-S9jPcymJ3fRIKu8mivSDw8 Cc: rtcweb@ietf.org Subject: [rtcweb] I-D Action: draft-ietf-rtcweb-data-channel-12.txt X-BeenThere: rtcweb@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 List-Id: Real-Time Communication in WEB-browsers working group list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sun, 28 Sep 2014 21:49:01 -0000 A New Internet-Draft is available from the on-line Internet-Drafts directories. This draft is a work item of the Real-Time Communication in WEB-browsers Working Group of the IETF. Title : WebRTC Data Channels Authors : Randell Jesup Salvatore Loreto Michael Tuexen Filename : draft-ietf-rtcweb-data-channel-12.txt Pages : 16 Date : 2014-09-28 Abstract: The WebRTC framework specifies protocol support for direct interactive rich communication using audio, video, and data between two peers' web-browsers. This document specifies the non-media data transport aspects of the WebRTC framework. It provides an architectural overview of how the Stream Control Transmission Protocol (SCTP) is used in the WebRTC context as a generic transport service allowing WEB-browsers to exchange generic data from peer to peer. The IETF datatracker status page for this draft is: https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-rtcweb-data-channel/ There's also a htmlized version available at: http://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-rtcweb-data-channel-12 A diff from the previous version is available at: http://www.ietf.org/rfcdiff?url2=draft-ietf-rtcweb-data-channel-12 Please note that it may take a couple of minutes from the time of submission until the htmlized version and diff are available at tools.ietf.org. Internet-Drafts are also available by anonymous FTP at: ftp://ftp.ietf.org/internet-drafts/ From nobody Sun Sep 28 14:49:34 2014 Return-Path: X-Original-To: rtcweb@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: rtcweb@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1F8E21A6EDE for ; Sun, 28 Sep 2014 14:49:33 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.337 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.337 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, HELO_EQ_DE=0.35, RP_MATCHES_RCVD=-0.786, SPF_HELO_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id UoQEKR3mygde for ; Sun, 28 Sep 2014 14:49:31 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail-n.franken.de (drew.ipv6.franken.de [IPv6:2001:638:a02:a001:20e:cff:fe4a:feaa]) (using TLSv1 with cipher ADH-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 4DA7A1A6EF1 for ; Sun, 28 Sep 2014 14:49:19 -0700 (PDT) Received: from [192.168.1.104] (p548199DC.dip0.t-ipconnect.de [84.129.153.220]) (Authenticated sender: macmic) by mail-n.franken.de (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5330C1C104DA4; Sun, 28 Sep 2014 23:49:17 +0200 (CEST) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 7.3 \(1878.6\)) From: Michael Tuexen In-Reply-To: <53EEFDD3.6040607@omnitor.se> Date: Sun, 28 Sep 2014 23:49:11 +0200 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Message-Id: <03CCB2BC-068F-4A52-9ECE-6F8AE8E21D7D@lurchi.franken.de> References: <20140811181357.613.72705.idtracker@ietfa.amsl.com> <53EEFDD3.6040607@omnitor.se> To: Gunnar Hellstrom X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.1878.6) Archived-At: http://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/rtcweb/cSJJnqsIaqybVz1fxwpFiVs-9ik Cc: "rtcweb@ietf.org" Subject: Re: [rtcweb] draft-ietf-rtcweb-data-channel failure handling description X-BeenThere: rtcweb@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: Real-Time Communication in WEB-browsers working group list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sun, 28 Sep 2014 21:49:33 -0000 On 16 Aug 2014, at 08:44, Gunnar Hellstrom = wrote: > We have discussed the lack of description of failure handling in = draft-ietf-rtcweb-data-channel a couple of times. >=20 > Explanations of mechanisms have been provided in mail answers that I = have not seen documented elsewhere, but they have not been introduced in = the draft. >=20 > I think that for specification and implementation of the WebRTC API, = there is a need for clear specification how the channels behave in = failure situations. >=20 > I suggest to insert a new chapter 6.7 in the draft with the following = contents. =20 >=20 > = -------------------------------------------------------------------Propose= d new section = 6.7-----------------------------------------------------------------------= -------------------- > 6.7 Transmission failure and error handling=20 >=20 > Failures can occur in an open channel by transmission error detection = and by SCTP watchdog error indications. > If transmission in a reliable channel fails, the association where the = channel belongs will be aborted. If all retries for a watchdog expires, = the corresponding association will be aborted. All channels in an = association that is aborted because of errors need to be closed by the = party detecting the failure. Network error indications shall be provided = to upper layers on all closed channels. >=20 > If retransmissions or transmission time is exceeded in a partially = reliable channel, the transmission SHALL be allowed to continue with = other data items. A transmission error indication SHALL be provided to = upper layers on that channel.=20 >=20 > If reception out-of order is detected from an SCTP channel for which = ordered transmission is requested, the receiver SHALL close the data = channel, and provide an transmission error indication to upper layers. =20= >=20 > If a message with an unsupported PPID is received or some logical = error is detected by the receiver, the receiver SHALL close the = corresponding data channel.=20 > = -----------------------------------------------------------------------end= of = proposal------------------------------------------------------------------= --------------------------------------------- >=20 > I am not sure about what the two last kinds of errors should result in = and hope that the experts can adjust the wording. Hi Gunnar, I think I have covered the contents your are suggesting, but I added = some of the text in a section called SCTP Association Management. Please let me know if the new revision addresses your comments. Best regards Michael >=20 > Regards >=20 > Gunnar > Gunnar Hellstr=F6m > Omnitor > gunnar.hellstrom@omnitor.se >=20 > On 2014-08-11 20:13, IESG Secretary wrote: >> The IESG would like to retract the current Last Call on the following=20= >> document: >>=20 >> - 'WebRTC Data Channels' >> as Proposed Standard >>=20 >> The document's state has been set back to "AD Evaluation." >>=20 >>=20 >=20 > _______________________________________________ > rtcweb mailing list > rtcweb@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/rtcweb From nobody Mon Sep 29 08:57:03 2014 Return-Path: X-Original-To: rtcweb@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: rtcweb@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 240071A883D; Mon, 29 Sep 2014 08:57:01 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.9 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.9 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9] autolearn=ham Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id dwzwRTC_MEA6; Mon, 29 Sep 2014 08:56:59 -0700 (PDT) Received: from ietfa.amsl.com (localhost [IPv6:::1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id E24201A1ADB; Mon, 29 Sep 2014 08:56:59 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: internet-drafts@ietf.org To: i-d-announce@ietf.org X-Test-IDTracker: no X-IETF-IDTracker: 5.6.3.p1 Auto-Submitted: auto-generated Precedence: bulk Message-ID: <20140929155659.11931.13995.idtracker@ietfa.amsl.com> Date: Mon, 29 Sep 2014 08:56:59 -0700 Archived-At: http://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/rtcweb/19jfA4pNitX73_saDmL1ikJ7Gwg Cc: rtcweb@ietf.org Subject: [rtcweb] I-D Action: draft-ietf-rtcweb-audio-codecs-for-interop-00.txt X-BeenThere: rtcweb@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 List-Id: Real-Time Communication in WEB-browsers working group list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 29 Sep 2014 15:57:01 -0000 A New Internet-Draft is available from the on-line Internet-Drafts directories. This draft is a work item of the Real-Time Communication in WEB-browsers Working Group of the IETF. Title : Additional WebRTC audio codecs for interoperability with legacy networks. Authors : Stephane Proust Espen Berger Bernhard Feiten Bo Burman Kalyani Bogineni Miao Lei Enrico Marocco Filename : draft-ietf-rtcweb-audio-codecs-for-interop-00.txt Pages : 10 Date : 2014-09-29 Abstract: To ensure a baseline level of interoperability between WebRTC clients, [I-D.ietf-rtcweb-audio] requires a minimum set of codecs. However, to maximize the possibility to establish the session without the need for audio transcoding, it is also recommended to include in the offer other suitable audio codecs that are available to the browser. This document provides some guidelines on the suitable codecs to be considered for WebRTC clients to address the most relevant interoperability use cases. The IETF datatracker status page for this draft is: https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-rtcweb-audio-codecs-for-interop/ There's also a htmlized version available at: http://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-rtcweb-audio-codecs-for-interop-00 Please note that it may take a couple of minutes from the time of submission until the htmlized version and diff are available at tools.ietf.org. Internet-Drafts are also available by anonymous FTP at: ftp://ftp.ietf.org/internet-drafts/ From nobody Mon Sep 29 09:03:06 2014 Return-Path: X-Original-To: rtcweb@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: rtcweb@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2F0601A8838 for ; Mon, 29 Sep 2014 09:03:03 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.899 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.899 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, UNPARSEABLE_RELAY=0.001] autolearn=ham Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id vtDZ8QBWZ6H5 for ; Mon, 29 Sep 2014 09:03:01 -0700 (PDT) Received: from relais-inet.francetelecom.com (relais-ias245.francetelecom.com [80.12.204.245]) (using TLSv1 with cipher ADH-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id C582E1A8830 for ; Mon, 29 Sep 2014 09:03:00 -0700 (PDT) Received: from omfeda08.si.francetelecom.fr (unknown [xx.xx.xx.201]) by omfeda09.si.francetelecom.fr (ESMTP service) with ESMTP id 0EBF6C0137 for ; Mon, 29 Sep 2014 18:02:59 +0200 (CEST) Received: from Exchangemail-eme1.itn.ftgroup (unknown [10.114.1.183]) by omfeda08.si.francetelecom.fr (ESMTP service) with ESMTP id E4407384061 for ; Mon, 29 Sep 2014 18:02:58 +0200 (CEST) Received: from PEXCVZYM14.corporate.adroot.infra.ftgroup ([fe80::a42f:c628:bc76:d592]) by PEXCVZYH02.corporate.adroot.infra.ftgroup ([::1]) with mapi id 14.03.0195.001; Mon, 29 Sep 2014 18:02:58 +0200 From: To: "'rtcweb@ietf.org'" Thread-Topic: [rtcweb] WG adoption: draft-proust-rtcweb-audio-codecs-for-interop Thread-Index: AQHP0fKT7OzEXEQYNEOyHoHIaQE5ypwYWX0g Date: Mon, 29 Sep 2014 16:02:58 +0000 Message-ID: <11439_1412006579_542982B2_11439_9989_1_2842AD9A45C83B44B57635FD4831E60A0C1C9E5F@PEXCVZYM14.corporate.adroot.infra.ftgroup> References: <3C9B46EC-2071-451D-AF59-50891286672E@ieca.com> In-Reply-To: <3C9B46EC-2071-451D-AF59-50891286672E@ieca.com> Accept-Language: fr-FR, en-US Content-Language: fr-FR X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-originating-ip: [10.197.38.6] Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable MIME-Version: 1.0 X-PMX-Version: 6.0.3.2322014, Antispam-Engine: 2.7.2.2107409, Antispam-Data: 2014.9.29.130020 Archived-At: http://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/rtcweb/qTTnx95rLCt8EjEb7DOEWVGM0K0 Subject: Re: [rtcweb] WG adoption: draft-proust-rtcweb-audio-codecs-for-interop X-BeenThere: rtcweb@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: Real-Time Communication in WEB-browsers working group list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 29 Sep 2014 16:03:03 -0000 Dear all, Following the announcement from the Chairs that "draft-proust-rtcweb-audio-= codecs-for-interop" is adopted as Working Group informational draft, I have= submitted an updated version renamed "draft-ietf-rtcweb-audio-codecs-for-i= nterop" (and renumbered 00) In addition to this renaming, one statement in introduction needed to be re= moved: >> The purpose of this 01 version is to maintain the draft alive. The auth= ors will submit a 02 version before IETF-91, which will take into account t= he comments received at IETF-90" I have then replaced it with the following statement that intends to make t= his work as open and consensual as possible by strictly focusing on interop= erability issues and opening it to possible other codecs: >> The codecs considered in this document are recommended to be supported a= nd included in the Offer only for WebRTC clients for which interoperability= with other non WebRTC end points and non WebRTC based services is relevant= as described in sections 5.1.2, 5.2.2 and 5.3.2. Other use cases may justi= fy offering other additional codecs to avoid transcodings. It is the intent= of this document to inventory and document any other additional interopera= bility use cases and codecs if needed. I hope we can now progress the WG Draft in that spirit. Best regards St=E9phane -----Message d'origine----- De=A0: rtcweb [mailto:rtcweb-bounces@ietf.org] De la part de Sean Turner Envoy=E9=A0: mardi 16 septembre 2014 23:10 =C0=A0: rtcweb@ietf.org Objet=A0: [rtcweb] WG adoption: draft-proust-rtcweb-audio-codecs-for-interop Howdy, After reviewing the working group discussion at our last face-to-face meeti= ng and the subsequent on-list discussion, the chairs believe that there is = rough consensus to adopt draft-proust-rtcweb-audio-codecs-for-interop as an= Informational document aiming to identify which codecs may allow transcodi= ng-free interoperability with deployed systems. All normative requirements= for which codecs WebRTC implementations must support will remain in draft= -ietf-rtcweb-audio-codec. Ted, Cullen, Sean _______________________________________________ rtcweb mailing list rtcweb@ietf.org https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/rtcweb ___________________________________________________________________________= ______________________________________________ Ce message et ses pieces jointes peuvent contenir des informations confiden= tielles ou privilegiees et ne doivent donc pas etre diffuses, exploites ou copies sans autorisation. Si vous avez recu= ce message par erreur, veuillez le signaler a l'expediteur et le detruire ainsi que les pieces jointes. Les messages el= ectroniques etant susceptibles d'alteration, Orange decline toute responsabilite si ce message a ete altere, deforme ou = falsifie. Merci. This message and its attachments may contain confidential or privileged inf= ormation that may be protected by law; they should not be distributed, used or copied without authorisation. If you have received this email in error, please notify the sender and dele= te this message and its attachments. As emails may be altered, Orange is not liable for messages that have been = modified, changed or falsified. Thank you.