From nobody Wed Aug 1 00:52:18 2018 Return-Path: X-Original-To: rtcweb@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: rtcweb@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0EB34130FCF for ; Wed, 1 Aug 2018 00:52:16 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.41 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.41 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-2.3, SPF_PASS=-0.001, T_DKIMWL_WL_HIGH=-0.01, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (1024-bit key) header.d=ericsson.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id BOYHepfwdg00 for ; Wed, 1 Aug 2018 00:52:14 -0700 (PDT) Received: from sessmg22.ericsson.net (sessmg22.ericsson.net [193.180.251.58]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher 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sessmg22.ericsson.net (Symantec Mail Security) with SMTP id 10.2E.31169.BA6616B5; Wed, 1 Aug 2018 09:52:11 +0200 (CEST) Received: from ESESBMB503.ericsson.se (153.88.183.170) by ESESBMB505.ericsson.se (153.88.183.172) with Microsoft SMTP Server (version=TLS1_2, cipher=TLS_ECDHE_RSA_WITH_AES_128_CBC_SHA256_P256) id 15.1.1466.3; Wed, 1 Aug 2018 09:52:11 +0200 Received: from ESESBMB503.ericsson.se ([153.88.183.186]) by ESESBMB503.ericsson.se ([153.88.183.186]) with mapi id 15.01.1466.003; Wed, 1 Aug 2018 09:52:11 +0200 From: Christer Holmberg To: Justin Uberti CC: Sean Turner , RTCWeb IETF Thread-Topic: [rtcweb] WG adoption call: draft-mdns-ice-candidates Thread-Index: AQHUJgvztDAqqnNgKU61Ukau0VYD2qSkZb7ggAWCyoCAAKPd4A== Date: Wed, 1 Aug 2018 07:52:11 +0000 Message-ID: References: <11b6f595e3104b8fa70de30a82e09571@ericsson.com> In-Reply-To: Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-originating-ip: [153.88.183.153] Content-Type: text/plain; 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fdt3vcw4a5JESaknUcWi7CbQrdcLT7iIFYa3pk5I8w4n2lH29uUTWwt9boDtdYkBY5a4Rg+m Z9ndsLh0fHdZM6BXv/6gWMMdGbV5+xcV0FDcXZIlHLZIriDgeZQR3cDEa9lFWUYrI9KKmdoq ngaND7jPZaMCyvn9VDOAGBWxg49gQV/x1d+DiIyMbF9J+ya4YqaSZtu2y/H03eVCawmI6SMH UzdOo+Yqen3Udcdur0KnWMUOP3FIdjgxaPoIEKfFTBy7n8rlzrrTzyrv5Gouusxj0JHMwvuh ixK1bmVy/XYqoG0TVwBt Message-ID: <9afd0f94-18d9-d8d3-ea26-c46f551b5cf7@gmail.com> Date: Wed, 1 Aug 2018 13:27:52 +0200 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; Linux x86_64; rv:52.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/52.9.1 MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Language: en-GB Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Archived-At: Subject: Re: [rtcweb] WG adoption call: draft-mdns-ice-candidates X-BeenThere: rtcweb@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.27 Precedence: list List-Id: Real-Time Communication in WEB-browsers working group list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 01 Aug 2018 11:27:39 -0000 Same here. Cheers Lennart On 28.07.2018 05:59, Nils Ohlmeier wrote: > I support adoption as a WG document and I’m willing to review. > > Nils Ohlmeier > >> On Jul 27, 2018, at 17:42, Sean Turner wrote: >> >> The consensus in the RFCWEB@IETF102 room was that the WG should adopt https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-mdns-ice-candidates/ as a WG item. But, we need to confirm this on list. If you would like for this draft to become a WG document and you are willing to review it as it moves through the process, then please let the list know by 2359UTC 20180810. If you are opposed to this being a WG document, please say so (and say why). >> >> Note that the draft has been marked as a “Call for Adoption by WG Issued” in the datatracker. >> >> Thanks - spt >> _______________________________________________ >> rtcweb mailing list >> rtcweb@ietf.org >> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/rtcweb > > > > _______________________________________________ > rtcweb mailing list > rtcweb@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/rtcweb > From nobody Wed Aug 1 06:33:57 2018 Return-Path: X-Original-To: rtcweb@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: rtcweb@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 84E67130E8D for ; Wed, 1 Aug 2018 06:33:48 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.998 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.998 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=gmail.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id MKHFogrsxGHW for ; Wed, 1 Aug 2018 06:33:46 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail-vk0-x22b.google.com (mail-vk0-x22b.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:400c:c05::22b]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id D66A5128CFD for ; Wed, 1 Aug 2018 06:33:45 -0700 (PDT) Received: by mail-vk0-x22b.google.com with SMTP id l143-v6so9286143vke.1 for ; Wed, 01 Aug 2018 06:33:45 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20161025; h=mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date:message-id:subject:to :cc; bh=ZL9lSLInlMG6cE/72Fk0fe5maxCCFD/746okEWxsheQ=; b=YpsvMlb+ix/Pbo7rM8Acr52x1U6CEtW8s5gXUSCKXbq8zsy7SzJqCBE4pOLOjplMkm yhZw1sh632eAqb4bOnRcDzbY6wB0J44EZoMFCqMsaNqF573Ly54ET6kLkqhlkIb+nvl2 LjF17pZbzmAFTIOgyJ9BnIZlvWxwwhkS9Pt0yel11j45F9qBhgANpBAX7WtbjV8gIZX2 lBUFZSfrLnErDDmGIiMEAqwZiZBjG+qYIcsP9RVcxLkw21fmCbUdAkjc0D26/+cVBC+6 5WG4eDR886nz5y7on8XLC3WxH06lqeQ0U5uZye8dmXgbzeyIplnSKOyVyy+9z1P/8nto D6kQ== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date :message-id:subject:to:cc; bh=ZL9lSLInlMG6cE/72Fk0fe5maxCCFD/746okEWxsheQ=; b=RS4xha6SD94yGtzHOiiuqW54KRUdBDHwCIUfMjXW5Nh6zTd4YReVr3wgAlbqXlnrUp ArNjlDbf+Qumcn7x/VCTwa9VV8uh1jx120bgdvfwtmQ9DD8Id4CKehckzJFzIitRoiR9 6rnzG6zv+buZmDnNTLkbALbKOanFcPfzyq3uJYlSSXyprpvGac+NORbT1v6EVYfJfAYm Q9niEK6y7RIArg5a/eP/3YKblaiStoRhBG+5cwPaZCBWWPmY9Ggc1IPBVARQq3qvaApM 0G+L6b87HJHRbJPQaGWi9lmxYrD59lJbK7hdLybbUq0sOdXTE/Gv1H2Pplkp6UbgZ1qZ xRqA== X-Gm-Message-State: AOUpUlGMG4GyM5yfVC7katZJHZn0EZcBd82R6UzkLkTQbxmfeKF4jAN4 wZvc7XykbgBE6MV/ZmdbLcrWEBS+y7AbAqFtDfiYmw== X-Google-Smtp-Source: AAOMgpf/CutHMHh+ALqz9oo4PNvtx/boz+Ns5rnObjcv125tCvsSvz1TKjWv4jsGljo3Gv5cgRrDlC4OSC/YMg5JnxU= X-Received: by 2002:a1f:e0c3:: with SMTP id x186-v6mr14897328vkg.91.1533130424965; Wed, 01 Aug 2018 06:33:44 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 References: In-Reply-To: From: Suhas Nandakumar Date: Wed, 1 Aug 2018 06:33:32 -0700 Message-ID: To: Christer Holmberg Cc: Sean Turner , rtcweb@ietf.org Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="0000000000005fddb805725fbe23" Archived-At: Subject: Re: [rtcweb] WGLC for draft-ietf-rtcweb-sdp - Christer's review X-BeenThere: rtcweb@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.27 Precedence: list List-Id: Real-Time Communication in WEB-browsers working group list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 01 Aug 2018 13:33:49 -0000 --0000000000005fddb805725fbe23 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Hello Christer Thanks for the review.Please see inline. cheers Suhas On Sat, Jul 28, 2018 at 4:56 AM Christer Holmberg < christer.holmberg@ericsson.com> wrote: > Hi, > > Here are my comments: > > Q1: Regarding the ICE attributes (non-trickle), I think the draft shall > reference draft-ietf-mmusic-ice-sip-sdp > [Suhas] Since JSEP refers to RFC5245, this draft decided to follow the same as well. > Q2: I think the examples shall include the 'ice2' ice-options value > (defined in RFC 8445), to indicate that aggressive nomination is not > supported. > > [Suhas] SDP examples are based on JSEP requirements for constructing SDP. The latest version of JSEP doesn't seem to support "ice2". It would be nice to keep both the drafts in sync as for the rules of the SDP construction. I am curious to hear what is the WG take on this though > Yes, this again brings up the what-ICE-version-to-reference-question. All > the other ICE related drafts in the examples reference (directly or > indirectly) RFC 8445. > > Regards, > > Christer > > -----Original Message----- > From: rtcweb [mailto:rtcweb-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of Sean Turner > Sent: 26 July 2018 21:10 > To: RTCWeb IETF > Subject: [rtcweb] WGLC for draft-ietf-rtcweb-sdp > > All, > > This is the working group last call for the "Annotated Example SDP for > WebRTC" draft available at > https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-rtcweb-sdp/. Please review > the document and send your comments to the list by 2359 UTC on 17 August > 2018. > > Thanks - spt > _______________________________________________ > rtcweb mailing list > rtcweb@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/rtcweb > > _______________________________________________ > rtcweb mailing list > rtcweb@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/rtcweb > --0000000000005fddb805725fbe23 Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Hello Christer

Thanks for the review.Pl= ease see inline.

cheers
Suhas

<= div class=3D"gmail_quote">
On Sat, Jul 28, 2018 at 4:56 AM = Christer Holmberg <chr= ister.holmberg@ericsson.com> wrote:
Hi,

Here are my comments:

Q1: Regarding the ICE attributes (non-trickle), I think the draft shall ref= erence draft-ietf-mmusic-ice-sip-sdp

[S= uhas] Since JSEP refers to RFC5245, this draft decided to follow the same a= s well.
=C2=A0
Q2: I think the examples shall include the 'ice2' ice-options value= (defined in RFC 8445), to indicate that aggressive nomination is not suppo= rted.

[Suhas] SDP examples are based on JSEP requirements f= or constructing SDP. The latest version of=C2=A0 JSEP doesn't seem to s= upport "ice2". It would be nice to keep both the drafts in sync a= s for the rules of the SDP construction. I am curious to hear what is the W= G take on this though
=C2=A0
Yes, this again brings up the what-ICE-version-to-reference-question. All t= he other ICE related drafts in the examples reference (directly or indirect= ly) RFC 8445.

Regards,

Christer

-----Original Message-----
From: rtcweb [mailto:rtcweb-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of Sean Turner
Sent: 26 July 2018 21:10
To: RTCWeb IETF <rt= cweb@ietf.org>
Subject: [rtcweb] WGLC for draft-ietf-rtcweb-sdp

All,

This is the working group last call for the "Annotated Example SDP for= WebRTC" draft available at https://data= tracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-rtcweb-sdp/.=C2=A0 Please review the do= cument and send your comments to the list by 2359 UTC on 17 August 2018.
Thanks - spt
_______________________________________________
rtcweb mailing list
rtcweb@ietf.org https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/rtcweb

_______________________________________________
rtcweb mailing list
rtcweb@ietf.org https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/rtcweb
--0000000000005fddb805725fbe23-- From nobody Wed Aug 1 07:37:43 2018 Return-Path: X-Original-To: rtcweb@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: rtcweb@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 48F6B130F39 for ; Wed, 1 Aug 2018 07:37:42 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -0.409 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-0.409 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, RCVD_IN_SORBS_WEB=1.5, SPF_PASS=-0.001, T_DKIMWL_WL_MED=-0.01, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=no autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=vidyo-com.20150623.gappssmtp.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id yG6XxiXxw94G for ; Wed, 1 Aug 2018 07:37:40 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail-qt0-x233.google.com (mail-qt0-x233.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:400d:c0d::233]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id BEAA0130EB1 for ; Wed, 1 Aug 2018 07:37:39 -0700 (PDT) Received: by mail-qt0-x233.google.com with SMTP id b15-v6so20085825qtp.11 for ; Wed, 01 Aug 2018 07:37:39 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=vidyo-com.20150623.gappssmtp.com; s=20150623; h=from:message-id:mime-version:subject:date:in-reply-to:cc:to :references; bh=z7GD5eVr2BwtaciWbCOfje/ntDODZ9AZkhTFWEjQ2y0=; b=YSa4IBSIaEXALHTGFhIL1405Tqs4F0emH0ZzRPDdRpLKOOoNYYlAIMU7vZB7QoQtGz nOyat8+2/0axaPBa7BpqFngKJbzNb4sYYhsFyt2k0Hx6MvcFfQ7d2sUEINpJZ/VPX9Q6 FQAGkt8SWk7VwojsgynzqVJpsLSy3by/iE47dIXl3MOg3bUZxLimNZhOG5vhAdcKg6bz E/AkZkbz2HPeCkw/jWFlL59NmtLFvFpaLbx2p1Opi104GnjG/qrTaAv0IRt7d+zUwrEu CWn/IBGwbrWn8E6Op5wiLsMx663Vy8moxwJWAe9XyZquUVCWzj6C+H+Fjn0ClhwugXEL P/IA== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:from:message-id:mime-version:subject:date :in-reply-to:cc:to:references; bh=z7GD5eVr2BwtaciWbCOfje/ntDODZ9AZkhTFWEjQ2y0=; b=Dg9c7evc3wpMdxODJptiLWbYda6KpgSaf5ri7jAZJ/sylLghiqmerMo1bLG30uaEvQ xjXOm4MoFPhE/Q02Gpyc7u8dDei5XbYedKJI32ruZO/d7rxNb4tC2fS3UYR/DWLK94IK zIZUBT5yOBI1WeGRI2r7BAlFn8UK10W+lDdkHUH1Qkqfyl/NiIODJMOFloGSWqY15LFZ YdciyRHqWoOMnOGvRFOeM2dUMhl9ej/RzjRr+IrxaQm/S2xVa/FWBcJGeS0AvLH4UcCC rI0iZkPXJvVozvLWGbxpsaf5D/+OKAlkYeqdvHhV1CH5T7L3lBaXMoPgaSNiELUcpbzq q9KA== X-Gm-Message-State: AOUpUlHKCsEs3oqOJjuXupHb6eS1VkAmstoowltzjY5HIpONZLElwX3M ZkQHqFocJSQGK6YriO6GbgrdqA== X-Google-Smtp-Source: AAOMgpcHu0edwNRLOs26U2uDhg159lFFeDLRv5h5yKCWCAeaVAQzJYi6e3C6yDq0oypsOVVDEny1CQ== X-Received: by 2002:ac8:35b8:: with SMTP id k53-v6mr25554111qtb.39.1533134258701; Wed, 01 Aug 2018 07:37:38 -0700 (PDT) Received: from [172.16.2.142] ([160.79.219.114]) by smtp.gmail.com with ESMTPSA id g39-v6sm15257335qtb.47.2018.08.01.07.37.37 (version=TLS1_2 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 bits=128/128); Wed, 01 Aug 2018 07:37:37 -0700 (PDT) From: Jonathan Lennox Message-Id: <182700F2-9594-4E9C-A46C-F639FBBA6297@vidyo.com> Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="Apple-Mail=_E775C5BB-D8AB-4A52-8903-27E9BEAA5981" Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 11.5 \(3445.9.1\)) Date: Wed, 1 Aug 2018 10:37:36 -0400 In-Reply-To: Cc: Christer Holmberg , "rtcweb@ietf.org" To: Justin Uberti References: <11b6f595e3104b8fa70de30a82e09571@ericsson.com> X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.3445.9.1) Archived-At: Subject: Re: [rtcweb] WG adoption call: draft-mdns-ice-candidates X-BeenThere: rtcweb@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.27 Precedence: list List-Id: Real-Time Communication in WEB-browsers working group list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 01 Aug 2018 14:37:42 -0000 --Apple-Mail=_E775C5BB-D8AB-4A52-8903-27E9BEAA5981 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 RTCWeb may mandate one IP address per FQDN, but a WebRTC implementation = can=E2=80=99t guarantee that the author of its remote description is = always a WebRTC implementation. The other complexity of DNS resolution is that you don=E2=80=99t want to = require that all DNS lookups be complete before connectivity checking is = started. =20 RTCWeb mandates trickle so you can treat DNS resolution completing as = though the candidate was trickled in at that point, but this will need = to be specified somewhere. Again, I think MMusic is the right place. I think an MMusic or ICE draft on FQDN handling in ICE, and an RTCWeb = draft recommending mDNS, should proceed in parallel. I don=E2=80=99t see = them taking appreciably different amounts of time. > On Jul 31, 2018, at 8:03 PM, Justin Uberti = wrote: >=20 > Regarding DNS resolution and associated complexity, I think we can = sidestep most of that here in rtcweb given that we will be mandating 1:1 = mapping between foo.local names and IP addresses. >=20 > IOW, the mDNS name is simply an alias for the IP, and therefore the = questions noted below are answered easily for this particular situation.=20= >=20 > We can continue to discuss the general case of this problem in mmusic. >=20 > On Sat, Jul 28, 2018 at 3:10 AM Christer Holmberg = > = wrote: > Hi, >=20 > In Montreal this was discussed in MMUSIC, and the outcome was that = this will require more work, in MMUSIC or ICE. >=20 > I have also given some input why I think ICE support of FQDNs in = general (not specific to mDNS) requires more work. >=20 > For example, as an FQDN can be associated with multiple IP addresses, = does that mean that the endpoint providing the FQDN will create separate = "sub candidates" for each IP address that the FQND can resolve to (as a = candidate per definition is associated with ONE transport (IP address + = port + protocol))?. If so, each of those local candidates may end up in = different foundations, some may be pruned (or removed because of other = reasons). In addition, is the endpoint supposed to send checks on each = of these candidates? For how long will it maintain them? Etc etc etc. >=20 > The concept of "multi-address candidates" is a new thing, currently = not covered by the ICE specifications. >=20 > Now, IF we assume a "FQDN candidate" will only resolve to one IP = address, the issue is easier to solve, but based on comments from others = we cannot make that assumption. >=20 > So, while I do not object to working on support of mDNS in ICE, my = suggestion would be that the ADs, and the RTCWEB/MMUSIC/ICE chairs, = discuss on how to move forward, before we adopt this draft. >=20 > Regards, >=20 > Christer >=20 >=20 > -----Original Message----- > From: rtcweb [mailto:rtcweb-bounces@ietf.org = ] On Behalf Of Sean Turner > Sent: 28 July 2018 03:43 > To: RTCWeb IETF > > Subject: [rtcweb] WG adoption call: draft-mdns-ice-candidates >=20 > The consensus in the RFCWEB@IETF102 room was that the WG should adopt = https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-mdns-ice-candidates/ = as a WG = item. But, we need to confirm this on list. If you would like for this = draft to become a WG document and you are willing to review it as it = moves through the process, then please let the list know by 2359UTC = 20180810. If you are opposed to this being a WG document, please say so = (and say why). >=20 > Note that the draft has been marked as a =E2=80=9CCall for Adoption by = WG Issued=E2=80=9D in the datatracker. >=20 > Thanks - spt > _______________________________________________ > rtcweb mailing list > rtcweb@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/rtcweb = > _______________________________________________ > rtcweb mailing list > rtcweb@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/rtcweb = > _______________________________________________ > rtcweb mailing list > rtcweb@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/rtcweb --Apple-Mail=_E775C5BB-D8AB-4A52-8903-27E9BEAA5981 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/html; charset=utf-8
RTCWeb may mandate one IP address per FQDN, but a WebRTC = implementation can=E2=80=99t guarantee that the author of its remote = description is always a WebRTC implementation.

The other complexity of DNS resolution is that you = don=E2=80=99t want to require that all DNS lookups be complete before = connectivity checking is started.  

RTCWeb mandates trickle so you can = treat DNS resolution completing as though the candidate was trickled in = at that point, but this will need to be specified somewhere. =  Again, I think MMusic is the right place.

I think an MMusic or ICE draft on FQDN = handling in ICE, and an RTCWeb draft recommending mDNS, should proceed = in parallel. I don=E2=80=99t see them taking appreciably different = amounts of time.

On Jul 31, 2018, at 8:03 PM, = Justin Uberti <juberti=3D40google.com@dmarc.ietf.org> = wrote:

Regarding DNS resolution and associated = complexity, I think we can sidestep most of that here in rtcweb given = that we will be mandating 1:1 mapping between foo.local names and IP = addresses.

IOW, the = mDNS name is simply an alias for the IP, and therefore the questions = noted below are answered easily for this particular situation. 

We = can continue to discuss the general case of this problem in = mmusic.

On Sat, Jul 28, 2018 at 3:10 AM Christer Holmberg = <christer.holmberg@ericsson.com> wrote:
Hi,

In Montreal this was discussed in MMUSIC, and the outcome was that this = will require more work, in MMUSIC or ICE.

I have also given some input why I think ICE support of FQDNs in general = (not specific to mDNS) requires more work.

For example, as an FQDN can be associated with multiple IP addresses, = does that mean that the endpoint providing the FQDN will create separate = "sub candidates" for each IP address that the FQND can resolve to (as a = candidate per definition is associated with ONE transport (IP address + = port + protocol))?. If so, each of those local candidates may end up in = different foundations, some may be pruned (or removed because of other = reasons). In addition, is the endpoint supposed to send checks on each = of these candidates? For how long will it maintain them? Etc etc etc.

The concept of "multi-address candidates" is a new thing, currently not = covered by the ICE specifications.

Now, IF we assume a "FQDN candidate" will only resolve to one IP = address, the issue is easier to solve, but based on comments from others = we cannot make that assumption.

So, while I do not object to working on support of mDNS in ICE, my = suggestion would be that the ADs, and the RTCWEB/MMUSIC/ICE chairs, = discuss on how to move forward, before we adopt this draft.
=
Regards,

Christer


-----Original Message-----
From: rtcweb [mailto:rtcweb-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of = Sean Turner
Sent: 28 July 2018 03:43
To: RTCWeb IETF <rtcweb@ietf.org>
Subject: [rtcweb] WG adoption call: draft-mdns-ice-candidates

The consensus in the RFCWEB@IETF102 room was that the WG should = adopt  https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-mdns-ice-candidates/= as a WG item. But, we need to confirm this on list.  If you would = like for this draft to become a WG document and you are willing to = review it as it moves through the process, then please let the list know = by 2359UTC 20180810.  If you are opposed to this being a WG = document, please say so (and say why).

Note that the draft has been marked as a =E2=80=9CCall for Adoption by = WG Issued=E2=80=9D in the datatracker.

Thanks - spt
_______________________________________________
rtcweb mailing list
rtcweb@ietf.org
https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/rtcweb
= _______________________________________________
rtcweb mailing list
rtcweb@ietf.org
https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/rtcweb
=
_______________________________________________
rtcweb = mailing list
rtcweb@ietf.org
https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/rtcweb

= --Apple-Mail=_E775C5BB-D8AB-4A52-8903-27E9BEAA5981-- From nobody Wed Aug 1 10:53:45 2018 Return-Path: X-Original-To: rtcweb@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: rtcweb@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2D005130EF8 for ; Wed, 1 Aug 2018 10:53:41 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -17.509 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-17.509 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, ENV_AND_HDR_SPF_MATCH=-0.5, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, T_DKIMWL_WL_MED=-0.01, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001, USER_IN_DEF_DKIM_WL=-7.5, USER_IN_DEF_SPF_WL=-7.5] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=google.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id Ed24z_CUk5Gn for ; Wed, 1 Aug 2018 10:53:37 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail-it0-x229.google.com (mail-it0-x229.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:4001:c0b::229]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 6121C12F1AB for ; Wed, 1 Aug 2018 10:53:37 -0700 (PDT) Received: by mail-it0-x229.google.com with SMTP id v71-v6so10519043itb.3 for ; Wed, 01 Aug 2018 10:53:37 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=google.com; s=20161025; h=mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date:message-id:subject:to :cc; bh=5dZEQDsa8Eb6QkpNJEmxJsGklSwb68RDBIPW4BbKwE4=; b=d2VLzAa4Ak9TQ4vG4UqtP4O1DkXmXkx/0ypiueOwqOfwcRNv94xTHU4O3JHrH7sSd2 lQ4+n3zKSW9cuVxWCnlo1hG4vPH3BYZxNXhnPftMXUEMb1ze6bdPKL6lm561UDo/0RlU x9mmxxoxgo10NlOZSmhQ7voryBNaP4UCuiSggsggmrqMcYKZEJFUNBtmYjXx3a0VCy1/ mGtvZtwdyQ8FEGVmMm/gglUvb4adY1GNoXMCH49PJkbOV/Yn7KrUZEw+eK+QCtQQqDuo oj35YjSP1oREfvoKJr3N9kocIr7DG1j8saN4fdwxOfXOdVqHo4J4cKJ9ITmRmSLTmGvr vSUw== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date :message-id:subject:to:cc; bh=5dZEQDsa8Eb6QkpNJEmxJsGklSwb68RDBIPW4BbKwE4=; b=qE5OdMewKQo0ePKYVmyq8Ij3tU9luUjg6lCahhTFdXT5frLqSDV4dyKU2OXCEWJ2SQ mAojFHvQQXW0bl2kgjZ9kEtQDIwiyHrq6S7KrCAEmGM+B6ius3hsIe6CxIHZtRttMECh oD2ZmNtWNvB/zxNlP0o2nfxnXiIqd/Ozb97q6+vQnilblMc88mjvLVkeZvHOHu0dF/yd soRfFGv4Cknkxqpo6m39zZRb25vmMJtSN1OqbyNN/bVofJxHP0xuejqm1iooppbFBsHU 0yb1Y93cKbbISscEjjL9ye9mRllhJuzLdCy6NLxtI/Jy0X6JzwHVpmNIXHFivAuq60QD u5RQ== X-Gm-Message-State: AOUpUlGPQBZQh2EdonESoURwh5Pq7PzViEa+gtbyzuHOZoNp/JosanpB dwh1u93n/84TjBPhfXu2Oelxa2/iztuXHd7FpbVk/A== X-Google-Smtp-Source: AAOMgpc+ZCV8OrFpYpOwv35xOEbLGNKoKGQd0shG+oIzYjqddqoEK4+gKAge4ETVKvEIzAPdtXePNjqFoYETKOYKjAE= X-Received: by 2002:a24:ce81:: with SMTP id v123-v6mr4214580itg.119.1533146016122; Wed, 01 Aug 2018 10:53:36 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 References: <11b6f595e3104b8fa70de30a82e09571@ericsson.com> <182700F2-9594-4E9C-A46C-F639FBBA6297@vidyo.com> In-Reply-To: <182700F2-9594-4E9C-A46C-F639FBBA6297@vidyo.com> From: Justin Uberti Date: Wed, 1 Aug 2018 10:53:25 -0700 Message-ID: To: Jonathan Lennox Cc: Christer Holmberg , RTCWeb IETF Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="000000000000aeb2f50572635f9d" Archived-At: Subject: Re: [rtcweb] WG adoption call: draft-mdns-ice-candidates X-BeenThere: rtcweb@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.27 Precedence: list List-Id: Real-Time Communication in WEB-browsers working group list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 01 Aug 2018 17:53:41 -0000 --000000000000aeb2f50572635f9d Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable On Wed, Aug 1, 2018 at 7:37 AM Jonathan Lennox wrote: > RTCWeb may mandate one IP address per FQDN, but a WebRTC implementation > can=E2=80=99t guarantee that the author of its remote description is alwa= ys a > WebRTC implementation. > > The other complexity of DNS resolution is that you don=E2=80=99t want to = require > that all DNS lookups be complete before connectivity checking is started. > > RTCWeb mandates trickle so you can treat DNS resolution completing as > though the candidate was trickled in at that point, but this will need to > be specified somewhere. Again, I think MMusic is the right place. > > I think an MMusic or ICE draft on FQDN handling in ICE, and an RTCWeb > draft recommending mDNS, should proceed in parallel. I don=E2=80=99t see = them > taking appreciably different amounts of time. > Agreed on this distribution of work. > > On Jul 31, 2018, at 8:03 PM, Justin Uberti < > juberti=3D40google.com@dmarc.ietf.org> wrote: > > Regarding DNS resolution and associated complexity, I think we can > sidestep most of that here in rtcweb given that we will be mandating 1:1 > mapping between foo.local names and IP addresses. > > IOW, the mDNS name is simply an alias for the IP, and therefore the > questions noted below are answered easily for this particular situation. > > We can continue to discuss the general case of this problem in mmusic. > > On Sat, Jul 28, 2018 at 3:10 AM Christer Holmberg < > christer.holmberg@ericsson.com> wrote: > >> Hi, >> >> In Montreal this was discussed in MMUSIC, and the outcome was that this >> will require more work, in MMUSIC or ICE. >> >> I have also given some input why I think ICE support of FQDNs in general >> (not specific to mDNS) requires more work. >> >> For example, as an FQDN can be associated with multiple IP addresses, >> does that mean that the endpoint providing the FQDN will create separate >> "sub candidates" for each IP address that the FQND can resolve to (as a >> candidate per definition is associated with ONE transport (IP address + >> port + protocol))?. If so, each of those local candidates may end up in >> different foundations, some may be pruned (or removed because of other >> reasons). In addition, is the endpoint supposed to send checks on each o= f >> these candidates? For how long will it maintain them? Etc etc etc. >> >> The concept of "multi-address candidates" is a new thing, currently not >> covered by the ICE specifications. >> >> Now, IF we assume a "FQDN candidate" will only resolve to one IP address= , >> the issue is easier to solve, but based on comments from others we canno= t >> make that assumption. >> >> So, while I do not object to working on support of mDNS in ICE, my >> suggestion would be that the ADs, and the RTCWEB/MMUSIC/ICE chairs, disc= uss >> on how to move forward, before we adopt this draft. >> >> Regards, >> >> Christer >> >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: rtcweb [mailto:rtcweb-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of Sean Turner >> Sent: 28 July 2018 03:43 >> To: RTCWeb IETF >> Subject: [rtcweb] WG adoption call: draft-mdns-ice-candidates >> >> The consensus in the RFCWEB@IETF102 room was that the WG should adopt >> https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-mdns-ice-candidates/ as a WG >> item. But, we need to confirm this on list. If you would like for this >> draft to become a WG document and you are willing to review it as it mov= es >> through the process, then please let the list know by 2359UTC 20180810. = If >> you are opposed to this being a WG document, please say so (and say why)= . >> >> Note that the draft has been marked as a =E2=80=9CCall for Adoption by W= G Issued=E2=80=9D >> in the datatracker. >> >> Thanks - spt >> _______________________________________________ >> rtcweb mailing list >> rtcweb@ietf.org >> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/rtcweb >> _______________________________________________ >> rtcweb mailing list >> rtcweb@ietf.org >> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/rtcweb >> > _______________________________________________ > rtcweb mailing list > rtcweb@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/rtcweb > > > --000000000000aeb2f50572635f9d Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable


On Wed= , Aug 1, 2018 at 7:37 AM Jonathan Lennox <jonathan@vidyo.com> wrote:
RTCWeb may mandate one IP address per FQDN, but a WebRTC implementation c= an=E2=80=99t guarantee that the author of its remote description is always = a WebRTC implementation.

The other complexity of DNS re= solution is that you don=E2=80=99t want to require that all DNS lookups be = complete before connectivity checking is started. =C2=A0

RTCWeb mandates trickle so you can treat DNS resolution completing as thou= gh the candidate was trickled in at that point, but this will need to be sp= ecified somewhere.=C2=A0 Again, I think MMusic is the right place.

I think an MMusic or ICE draft on FQDN handling in ICE, an= d an RTCWeb draft recommending mDNS, should proceed in parallel. I don=E2= =80=99t see them taking appreciably different amounts of time.

Agreed on this distribution of work.=C2= =A0

= On Jul 31, 2018, at 8:03 PM, Justin Uberti <juberti=3D40google.com@dmarc= .ietf.org> wrote:

Regarding DNS resolution and associat= ed complexity, I think we can sidestep most of that here in rtcweb given th= at we will be mandating 1:1 mapping between foo.local names and IP addresse= s.

IOW, the mDNS name is simply an alias for the IP, and= therefore the questions noted below are answered easily for this particula= r situation.=C2=A0

We can continue to discuss = the general case of this problem in mmusic.

On Sat, Jul 28, 2018 at 3:10 AM Christer Holmbe= rg <= christer.holmberg@ericsson.com> wrote:
Hi,

In Montreal this was discussed in MMUSIC, and the outcome was that this wil= l require more work, in MMUSIC or ICE.

I have also given some input why I think ICE support of FQDNs in general (n= ot specific to mDNS) requires more work.

For example, as an FQDN can be associated with multiple IP addresses, does = that mean that the endpoint providing the FQDN will create separate "s= ub candidates" for each IP address that the FQND can resolve to (as a = candidate per definition is associated with ONE transport (IP address + por= t + protocol))?. If so, each of those local candidates may end up in differ= ent foundations, some may be pruned (or removed because of other reasons). = In addition, is the endpoint supposed to send checks on each of these candi= dates? For how long will it maintain them? Etc etc etc.

The concept of "multi-address candidates" is a new thing, current= ly not covered by the ICE specifications.

Now, IF we assume a "FQDN candidate" will only resolve to one IP = address, the issue is easier to solve, but based on comments from others we= cannot make that assumption.

So, while I do not object to working on support of mDNS in ICE, my suggesti= on would be that the ADs, and the RTCWEB/MMUSIC/ICE chairs, discuss on how = to move forward, before we adopt this draft.

Regards,

Christer


-----Original Message-----
From: rtcweb [mailto:rtcweb-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of Sean Turner
Sent: 28 July 2018 03:43
To: RTCWeb IETF <rt= cweb@ietf.org>
Subject: [rtcweb] WG adoption call: draft-mdns-ice-candidates

The consensus in the RFCWEB@IETF102 room was that the WG should adopt=C2=A0= https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-m= dns-ice-candidates/ as a WG item. But, we need to confirm this on list.= =C2=A0 If you would like for this draft to become a WG document and you are= willing to review it as it moves through the process, then please let the = list know by 2359UTC 20180810.=C2=A0 If you are opposed to this being a WG = document, please say so (and say why).

Note that the draft has been marked as a =E2=80=9CCall for Adoption by WG I= ssued=E2=80=9D in the datatracker.

Thanks - spt
_______________________________________________
rtcweb mailing list
rtcweb@ietf.org https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/rtcweb
_______________________________________________
rtcweb mailing list
rtcweb@ietf.org https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/rtcweb
_______________________________________________
rtcweb mailing list
<= a href=3D"mailto:rtcweb@ietf.org" target=3D"_blank">rtcweb@ietf.org
= = https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/rtcweb

--000000000000aeb2f50572635f9d-- From nobody Wed Aug 1 13:26:38 2018 Return-Path: X-Original-To: rtcweb@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: rtcweb@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 01AD5130E2A for ; Wed, 1 Aug 2018 13:26:37 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -4.31 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-4.31 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-2.3, SPF_PASS=-0.001, T_DKIMWL_WL_HIGH=-0.01, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (1024-bit key) header.d=ericsson.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id JTgcHMCPX0n2 for ; Wed, 1 Aug 2018 13:26:35 -0700 (PDT) Received: from sesbmg22.ericsson.net (sesbmg22.ericsson.net [193.180.251.48]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 4CBE7130DC6 for ; 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Wed, 1 Aug 2018 22:26:33 +0200 Received: from ESESBMB503.ericsson.se ([153.88.183.186]) by ESESBMB503.ericsson.se ([153.88.183.186]) with mapi id 15.01.1466.003; Wed, 1 Aug 2018 22:26:33 +0200 From: Christer Holmberg To: Suhas Nandakumar CC: Sean Turner , "rtcweb@ietf.org" Thread-Topic: [rtcweb] WGLC for draft-ietf-rtcweb-sdp - Christer's review Thread-Index: AdQlFBFCoeP2SB4qTiyupXfADLWxPgEd2h0AABJ/sjA= Date: Wed, 1 Aug 2018 20:26:33 +0000 Message-ID: <5e6b88188d0a489590febaf4abbd51e7@ericsson.com> References: In-Reply-To: Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-originating-ip: [153.88.183.153] Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Brightmail-Tracker: H4sIAAAAAAAAA+NgFupjkeLIzCtJLcpLzFFi42KZGbG9RLdSPCnaYNJODYu1/9rZLa6samS2 2Dm3g9mB2WPnrLvsHkuW/GTyOHiQMYA5issmJTUnsyy1SN8ugSujfcdbpoJrghW79+xjbmCc I9jFyMkhIWAicXDLTVYQW0jgKKPEpGWlXYxcQPZXRolfZ+axQDhLGSW+31zB2MXIwcEmYCHR /U8bpEFEQEti9eK5TCA2s4CrxIvDK1hBSoQFPCRmbM+EKPGUuDPtEBuEbSWxb/tuNpASFgEV iT/zwkDCvALWEk87t7FDbGpilDh6oIsRJMEpECjx4d4tFhCbUUBM4vupNVCrxCVuPZnPBHG/ gMSSPeeZIWxRiZeP/7FC2EoSe49dZwHZxSygKbF+lz5Eq6LElO6H7BB7BSVOznzCMoFRbBaS qbMQOmYh6ZiFpGMBI8sqRtHi1OKk3HQjI73Uoszk4uL8PL281JJNjMBYOrjlt8EOxpfPHQ8x CnAwKvHwPmRJihZiTSwrrsw9xCjBwawkwjvndWK0EG9KYmVValF+fFFpTmrxIUZpDhYlcV4L v81RQgLpiSWp2ampBalFMFkmDk6pBsYo8fmOGy2j+/2+fHp2bDv/vhVC1jqikY/Z9aKNLP1u TS/d7GFkN/fClby8t59TEi1uHd/HZlz2meNWypHKbb6vbpl8uvLp67kqjekLKti3NV+e2dC2 W0xKzmK2L69U7oJXfu/vWGZM7V/84Mq6B6k/XLJ4EvO/h8yPuGprJfck5ZHu8buctlFKLMUZ iYZazEXFiQBDM2pioQIAAA== Archived-At: Subject: Re: [rtcweb] WGLC for draft-ietf-rtcweb-sdp - Christer's review X-BeenThere: rtcweb@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.27 Precedence: list List-Id: Real-Time Communication in WEB-browsers working group list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 01 Aug 2018 20:26:37 -0000 SGksDQoNCj4+IFExOiBSZWdhcmRpbmcgdGhlIElDRSBhdHRyaWJ1dGVzIChub24tdHJpY2tsZSks IEkgdGhpbmsgdGhlIGRyYWZ0IHNoYWxsIHJlZmVyZW5jZSBkcmFmdC1pZXRmLW1tdXNpYy1pY2Ut c2lwLXNkcA0KPg0KPiBbU3VoYXNdIFNpbmNlIEpTRVAgcmVmZXJzIHRvIFJGQzUyNDUsIHRoaXMg ZHJhZnQgZGVjaWRlZCB0byBmb2xsb3cgdGhlIHNhbWUgYXMgd2VsbC4NCsKgDQpKU0VQIGFsc28g aW1wbGljaXRseSByZWZlcmVuY2VzIFJGQyA4NDQ1IChJQ0ViaXMpLg0KDQpJIGhhdmUgc3VnZ2Vz dGVkIHRvIGNoYW5nZSB0aGUgSlNFUCByZWZlcmVuY2UuDQoNCj4+IFEyOiBJIHRoaW5rIHRoZSBl eGFtcGxlcyBzaGFsbCBpbmNsdWRlIHRoZSAnaWNlMicgaWNlLW9wdGlvbnMgdmFsdWUgKGRlZmlu ZWQgaW4gUkZDIDg0NDUpLCB0byANCj4+IGluZGljYXRlIHRoYXQgYWdncmVzc2l2ZSBub21pbmF0 aW9uIGlzIG5vdCBzdXBwb3J0ZWQuDQo+IFtTdWhhc10gU0RQIGV4YW1wbGVzIGFyZSBiYXNlZCBv biBKU0VQIHJlcXVpcmVtZW50cyBmb3IgY29uc3RydWN0aW5nIFNEUC4gVGhlIGxhdGVzdCB2ZXJz aW9uIG9mwqAgSlNFUCANCj4gZG9lc24ndCBzZWVtIHRvIHN1cHBvcnQgImljZTIiLiBJdCB3b3Vs ZCBiZSBuaWNlIHRvIGtlZXAgYm90aCB0aGUgZHJhZnRzIGluIHN5bmMgYXMgZm9yIHRoZSBydWxl cyBvZiB0aGUgU0RQIA0KPiBjb25zdHJ1Y3Rpb24uIEkgYW0gY3VyaW91cyB0byBoZWFyIHdoYXQg aXMgdGhlIFdHIHRha2Ugb24gdGhpcyB0aG91Z2gNCg0KRHVlIHRvIHRoZSBpbXBsaWNpdCByZWZl cmVuY2UgdG8gUkZDIDg0NDUgSSBkb24ndCB0aGluayB0aGVyZSBpcyBhIHN5bmMgZXZlbiB3aXRo aW4gSlNFUC4NCsKgDQpSZWdhcmRzLA0KDQpDaHJpc3Rlcg0KDQoNCg0KLS0tLS1PcmlnaW5hbCBN ZXNzYWdlLS0tLS0NCkZyb206IHJ0Y3dlYiBbbWFpbHRvOnJ0Y3dlYi1ib3VuY2VzQGlldGYub3Jn XSBPbiBCZWhhbGYgT2YgU2VhbiBUdXJuZXINClNlbnQ6IDI2IEp1bHkgMjAxOCAyMToxMA0KVG86 IFJUQ1dlYiBJRVRGIDxydGN3ZWJAaWV0Zi5vcmc+DQpTdWJqZWN0OiBbcnRjd2ViXSBXR0xDIGZv ciBkcmFmdC1pZXRmLXJ0Y3dlYi1zZHANCg0KQWxsLA0KDQpUaGlzIGlzIHRoZSB3b3JraW5nIGdy b3VwIGxhc3QgY2FsbCBmb3IgdGhlICJBbm5vdGF0ZWQgRXhhbXBsZSBTRFAgZm9yIFdlYlJUQyIg ZHJhZnQgYXZhaWxhYmxlIGF0IGh0dHBzOi8vZGF0YXRyYWNrZXIuaWV0Zi5vcmcvZG9jL2RyYWZ0 LWlldGYtcnRjd2ViLXNkcC8uwqAgUGxlYXNlIHJldmlldyB0aGUgZG9jdW1lbnQgYW5kIHNlbmQg eW91ciBjb21tZW50cyB0byB0aGUgbGlzdCBieSAyMzU5IFVUQyBvbiAxNyBBdWd1c3QgMjAxOC4N Cg0KVGhhbmtzIC0gc3B0DQpfX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19f X19fX19fXw0KcnRjd2ViIG1haWxpbmcgbGlzdA0KcnRjd2ViQGlldGYub3JnDQpodHRwczovL3d3 dy5pZXRmLm9yZy9tYWlsbWFuL2xpc3RpbmZvL3J0Y3dlYg0KDQpfX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19f X19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fXw0KcnRjd2ViIG1haWxpbmcgbGlzdA0KcnRjd2Vi QGlldGYub3JnDQpodHRwczovL3d3dy5pZXRmLm9yZy9tYWlsbWFuL2xpc3RpbmZvL3J0Y3dlYg0K From nobody Thu Aug 2 12:06:26 2018 Return-Path: X-Original-To: rtcweb@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: rtcweb@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id CE1C0128B14 for ; 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Thu, 02 Aug 2018 12:06:23 -0700 (PDT) Received: from [172.16.0.18] ([96.231.225.148]) by smtp.gmail.com with ESMTPSA id e1-v6sm1213798qkd.15.2018.08.02.12.06.21 (version=TLS1_2 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 bits=128/128); Thu, 02 Aug 2018 12:06:22 -0700 (PDT) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 11.5 \(3445.9.1\)) From: Sean Turner In-Reply-To: Date: Thu, 2 Aug 2018 15:06:21 -0400 Cc: RTCWeb IETF Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Message-Id: References: To: Christer Holmberg X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.3445.9.1) Archived-At: Subject: Re: [rtcweb] WGLC for draft-ietf-rtcweb-sdp - Christer's review X-BeenThere: rtcweb@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.27 Precedence: list List-Id: Real-Time Communication in WEB-browsers working group list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 02 Aug 2018 19:06:26 -0000 > On Jul 28, 2018, at 07:55, Christer Holmberg = wrote: >=20 > Yes, this again brings up the what-ICE-version-to-reference-question. = All the other ICE related drafts in the examples reference (directly or = indirectly) RFC 8445. We (Ted, Cullen, and Sean) consulted with our AD and confirmed that the = plan outlined when trying to address this issue in the rtcweb-overview = draft is still the plan [0]. tl;dr: figure this out when cluster 238 = gets untangled in the RFC editor=E2=80=99s queue. spt [0] = https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/rtcweb/GWdXRIO68FZwVtzzqugnELKeaY8 From nobody Thu Aug 2 12:26:31 2018 Return-Path: X-Original-To: rtcweb@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: rtcweb@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id E5CC5127B92 for ; Thu, 2 Aug 2018 12:26:28 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.001 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.001 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (1024-bit key) header.d=sn3rd.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id FeWI-7ZhF-mB for ; Thu, 2 Aug 2018 12:26:23 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail-qt0-x234.google.com (mail-qt0-x234.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:400d:c0d::234]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 0E7D1130EFB for ; Thu, 2 Aug 2018 12:26:23 -0700 (PDT) Received: by mail-qt0-x234.google.com with SMTP id h4-v6so3609186qtj.7 for ; Thu, 02 Aug 2018 12:26:23 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=sn3rd.com; s=google; h=from:content-transfer-encoding:mime-version:subject:date:references :to:in-reply-to:message-id; bh=QEQiZhFaWMzytLIxBhpkGL3+MdCmTYQUnYtRJ5qPyV0=; b=XomEz0o4el08NvPBdyePnQw1u8uBB5KVACwv44C7zzOGC80p4PZ9SHSPPwdKroAqyN jJVW1g7S5mfZz+CCl8uLAhOuRgZhKeuvWgwabzuB02PrHbgSYzvY3jfnB1HTe0TqcSPq qWgRzUWjVtuBcNDUTSRpXt+D4pIJXN/GnkUM0= X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:from:content-transfer-encoding:mime-version :subject:date:references:to:in-reply-to:message-id; bh=QEQiZhFaWMzytLIxBhpkGL3+MdCmTYQUnYtRJ5qPyV0=; b=dOdc1smOqxzGisuVs9CkARtokeWHvbxRBs1wNaVFEzHuv034AtjLRKPme5C0UjPHk8 CwlcZKR+zHfbMyY2DFTg/h0sEUQAH7cYaX3yaZymRbiKGWOsPvhumRiDzkjq0ftfgCBN hSTB7Z9+Udv6Vnvm+tSBW0iQWGYBPzr6NRSb9fCnkBDp39xxnj2/Wnrta4TliR4j2Gd3 6ZSpzaM+8zRGDFoF2eFPIh/wle8h3/kqUYQiko+JQHr27lBhGC8Jf1LFDiWheIMz+R0n I91yJ5nyYGNEFcwVzgNU0ijdtJq6ruWOoDmSmGvi3Ora/W+UXhY4kY6vYePevC9ndP4q R6yA== X-Gm-Message-State: AOUpUlHUVI1RFSRuXuqX2rLoG1NgHXoz0Ho+Px7BKCeu44EMGmgyIBZd 8z5x01h6CjyqBoBarZim8qasdY0QBoA= X-Google-Smtp-Source: AAOMgpe1kNPp0AyStPjQs46FfgPLasakAJWYkDXlFkFqNKN7uogexQ52qbqcyeAe6IvuMI5VXC7C/A== X-Received: by 2002:a0c:d1c5:: with SMTP id k5-v6mr856877qvh.14.1533237982014; Thu, 02 Aug 2018 12:26:22 -0700 (PDT) Received: from [172.16.0.18] ([96.231.225.148]) by smtp.gmail.com with ESMTPSA id m129-v6sm2208050qkb.8.2018.08.02.12.26.21 for (version=TLS1_2 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 bits=128/128); Thu, 02 Aug 2018 12:26:21 -0700 (PDT) From: Sean Turner Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 11.5 \(3445.9.1\)) Date: Thu, 2 Aug 2018 15:26:20 -0400 References: <11b6f595e3104b8fa70de30a82e09571@ericsson.com> <182700F2-9594-4E9C-A46C-F639FBBA6297@vidyo.com> To: RTCWeb IETF In-Reply-To: Message-Id: <36334096-C893-4BA7-A279-EF8827440E31@sn3rd.com> X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.3445.9.1) Archived-At: Subject: Re: [rtcweb] WG adoption call: draft-mdns-ice-candidates X-BeenThere: rtcweb@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.27 Precedence: list List-Id: Real-Time Communication in WEB-browsers working group list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 02 Aug 2018 19:26:29 -0000 tl;dr: the MMUSIC chairs are happy figuring out the work-split later After consultation with the MMUSIC chairs, we think a workable way = forward is to let this WG call for adoption run. If MMUSIC (or any = other WG for that matter) decides later to takes up some of the work, = then we can ask the draft-mdns-ice-candidates authors to create a new = RTCWEB draft that contains the RTCWEB-specific information. = draft-mdns-ice-candidates could then also be used as a successor = document for any draft-ietf-mmusic (or other WG) draft. Note that this = also allows ip-handling to proceed with an informative pointer to = draft-mdns-ice-candidates (or more likely draft-rtcweb-ice-candidates). spt > On Aug 1, 2018, at 13:53, Justin Uberti = wrote: >=20 >=20 >=20 > On Wed, Aug 1, 2018 at 7:37 AM Jonathan Lennox = wrote: > RTCWeb may mandate one IP address per FQDN, but a WebRTC = implementation can=E2=80=99t guarantee that the author of its remote = description is always a WebRTC implementation. >=20 > The other complexity of DNS resolution is that you don=E2=80=99t want = to require that all DNS lookups be complete before connectivity checking = is started. =20 >=20 > RTCWeb mandates trickle so you can treat DNS resolution completing as = though the candidate was trickled in at that point, but this will need = to be specified somewhere. Again, I think MMusic is the right place. >=20 > I think an MMusic or ICE draft on FQDN handling in ICE, and an RTCWeb = draft recommending mDNS, should proceed in parallel. I don=E2=80=99t see = them taking appreciably different amounts of time. >=20 > Agreed on this distribution of work.=20 >=20 >> On Jul 31, 2018, at 8:03 PM, Justin Uberti = wrote: >>=20 >> Regarding DNS resolution and associated complexity, I think we can = sidestep most of that here in rtcweb given that we will be mandating 1:1 = mapping between foo.local names and IP addresses. >>=20 >> IOW, the mDNS name is simply an alias for the IP, and therefore the = questions noted below are answered easily for this particular situation.=20= >>=20 >> We can continue to discuss the general case of this problem in = mmusic. >>=20 >> On Sat, Jul 28, 2018 at 3:10 AM Christer Holmberg = wrote: >> Hi, >>=20 >> In Montreal this was discussed in MMUSIC, and the outcome was that = this will require more work, in MMUSIC or ICE. >>=20 >> I have also given some input why I think ICE support of FQDNs in = general (not specific to mDNS) requires more work. >>=20 >> For example, as an FQDN can be associated with multiple IP addresses, = does that mean that the endpoint providing the FQDN will create separate = "sub candidates" for each IP address that the FQND can resolve to (as a = candidate per definition is associated with ONE transport (IP address + = port + protocol))?. If so, each of those local candidates may end up in = different foundations, some may be pruned (or removed because of other = reasons). In addition, is the endpoint supposed to send checks on each = of these candidates? For how long will it maintain them? Etc etc etc. >>=20 >> The concept of "multi-address candidates" is a new thing, currently = not covered by the ICE specifications. >>=20 >> Now, IF we assume a "FQDN candidate" will only resolve to one IP = address, the issue is easier to solve, but based on comments from others = we cannot make that assumption. >>=20 >> So, while I do not object to working on support of mDNS in ICE, my = suggestion would be that the ADs, and the RTCWEB/MMUSIC/ICE chairs, = discuss on how to move forward, before we adopt this draft. >>=20 >> Regards, >>=20 >> Christer >>=20 >>=20 >> -----Original Message----- >> From: rtcweb [mailto:rtcweb-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of Sean = Turner >> Sent: 28 July 2018 03:43 >> To: RTCWeb IETF >> Subject: [rtcweb] WG adoption call: draft-mdns-ice-candidates >>=20 >> The consensus in the RFCWEB@IETF102 room was that the WG should adopt = https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-mdns-ice-candidates/ as a WG = item. But, we need to confirm this on list. If you would like for this = draft to become a WG document and you are willing to review it as it = moves through the process, then please let the list know by 2359UTC = 20180810. If you are opposed to this being a WG document, please say so = (and say why). >>=20 >> Note that the draft has been marked as a =E2=80=9CCall for Adoption = by WG Issued=E2=80=9D in the datatracker. >>=20 >> Thanks - spt >> _______________________________________________ >> rtcweb mailing list >> rtcweb@ietf.org >> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/rtcweb >> _______________________________________________ >> rtcweb mailing list >> rtcweb@ietf.org >> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/rtcweb >> _______________________________________________ >> rtcweb mailing list >> rtcweb@ietf.org >> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/rtcweb >=20 > _______________________________________________ > rtcweb mailing list > rtcweb@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/rtcweb From nobody Thu Aug 2 14:25:36 2018 Return-Path: X-Original-To: rtcweb@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: rtcweb@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id D66DB130DDD for ; 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Thu, 2 Aug 2018 23:25:31 +0200 Received: from ESESBMB503.ericsson.se ([153.88.183.186]) by ESESBMB503.ericsson.se ([153.88.183.186]) with mapi id 15.01.1466.003; Thu, 2 Aug 2018 23:25:31 +0200 From: Christer Holmberg To: Sean Turner CC: RTCWeb IETF Thread-Topic: [rtcweb] WGLC for draft-ietf-rtcweb-sdp - Christer's review Thread-Index: AdQlFBFCoeP2SB4qTiyupXfADLWxPgFbxFWAAAkCtaA= Date: Thu, 2 Aug 2018 21:25:31 +0000 Message-ID: <3027b6d3180a42b89948f3bdbdcb9d2a@ericsson.com> References: In-Reply-To: Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-originating-ip: [153.88.183.153] Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Brightmail-Tracker: H4sIAAAAAAAAA+NgFmphkeLIzCtJLcpLzFFi42KZGbG9WPd0WXK0wao+a4u1/9rZLa6samR2 YPJYsuQnk8fBg4wBTFFcNimpOZllqUX6dglcGdMO9zAV/GCteH7zK3MD4xPWLkZODgkBE4ld ez6xdzFycQgJHGWUaH3dyArhfGWUuHdpOzOEs5RRYuXhy0AZDg42AQuJ7n/aIN0iAgoSTUcf gE1iFlCU+LJ8PhtIibCAh8SM7ZkQJZ4Sd6YdAguLCFhJtB3iBwmzCKhIbJn1hRnE5hWwlri/ /xoTiC0kkCfxpe8pC4jNKWAr8XbeVLDpjAJiEt9PrWGC2CQucevJfCaI+wUkluw5zwxhi0q8 fPwP6i8lib3HrrOArGUW0JRYv0sf5sgp3Q/ZIdYKSpyc+YRlAqPYLCRTZyF0zELSMQtJxwJG llWMosWpxUm56UZGeqlFmcnFxfl5enmpJZsYgXFzcMtvgx2ML587HmIU4GBU4uE1Kk6OFmJN LCuuzD3EKMHBrCTCOy0eKMSbklhZlVqUH19UmpNafIhRmoNFSZzXwm9zlJBAemJJanZqakFq EUyWiYNTqoFx5qaWzB0FKxzq14t3nHB0eu9qJ3mxy22nwu7HuUecDPtWLrsuMGtSocmFKYuW sHLG8bJcaLpc94hztdXvidFsBsKdIbNOzzghpH5Kr1lJJlH7qmLNXq37KhotK+4/sfk+cUru 5P8HnuadDNdu3Cu3SWPPAdZnLzhc2L3fMzzQq9qeejPXqcBQiaU4I9FQi7moOBEAM9aBgpcC AAA= Archived-At: Subject: Re: [rtcweb] WGLC for draft-ietf-rtcweb-sdp - Christer's review X-BeenThere: rtcweb@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.27 Precedence: list List-Id: Real-Time Communication in WEB-browsers working group list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 02 Aug 2018 21:25:36 -0000 SGksDQoNCj4+IFllcywgdGhpcyBhZ2FpbiBicmluZ3MgdXAgdGhlIHdoYXQtSUNFLXZlcnNpb24t dG8tcmVmZXJlbmNlLXF1ZXN0aW9uLiBBbGwgdGhlIG90aGVyIElDRSANCj4+IHJlbGF0ZWQgZHJh ZnRzIGluIHRoZSBleGFtcGxlcyByZWZlcmVuY2UgKGRpcmVjdGx5IG9yIGluZGlyZWN0bHkpIFJG QyA4NDQ1Lg0KPg0KPiBXZSAoVGVkLCBDdWxsZW4sIGFuZCBTZWFuKSBjb25zdWx0ZWQgd2l0aCBv dXIgQUQgYW5kIGNvbmZpcm1lZCB0aGF0IHRoZSBwbGFuIG91dGxpbmVkIA0KPiB3aGVuIHRyeWlu ZyB0byBhZGRyZXNzIHRoaXMgaXNzdWUgaW4gdGhlIHJ0Y3dlYi1vdmVydmlldyBkcmFmdCBpcyBz dGlsbCB0aGUgcGxhbiBbMF0uICB0bDtkcjogDQo+IGZpZ3VyZSB0aGlzIG91dCB3aGVuIGNsdXN0 ZXIgMjM4IGdldHMgdW50YW5nbGVkIGluIHRoZSBSRkMgZWRpdG9y4oCZcyBxdWV1ZS4NCg0KQ29y cmVjdC4gSnVzdCB3YW50ZWQgdG8gcG9pbnQgb3V0IHRoYXQgdGhpcyBkcmFmdCBtaWdodCBiZSBh ZmZlY3RlZCB0b28uDQoNClJlZ2FyZHMsDQoNCkNocmlzdGVyDQoNCg0K From nobody Wed Aug 8 09:37:45 2018 Return-Path: X-Original-To: rtcweb@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: rtcweb@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 59839130E6B for ; 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Wed, 8 Aug 2018 18:37:38 +0200 Received: from ESESBMB503.ericsson.se ([153.88.183.186]) by ESESBMB503.ericsson.se ([153.88.183.186]) with mapi id 15.01.1466.003; Wed, 8 Aug 2018 18:37:38 +0200 From: Christer Holmberg To: RTCWeb IETF , "rtcweb-chairs@ietf.org" Thread-Topic: SDP Identity attribute pull request Thread-Index: AdQvNX3EK3HXM8DgTB+I6Mbbg3VVhA== Date: Wed, 8 Aug 2018 16:37:38 +0000 Message-ID: <2a8bc11a02424e9183916eadd6767716@ericsson.com> Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-originating-ip: [153.88.183.153] Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="_000_2a8bc11a02424e9183916eadd6767716ericssoncom_" MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Brightmail-Tracker: H4sIAAAAAAAAA+NgFvrBLMWRmVeSWpSXmKPExsUyM2J7pW6wTHa0wcIZ4hY9b2+wWKz9187u wOSxZMlPpgDGKC6blNSczLLUIn27BK6MffOusRSs8a2Y8HQVewPjPtcuRk4OCQETiY3b+li6 GLk4hASOMkoc/XGBDcL5yijxpHkZVGYpo8T8k9dZuxg5ONgELCS6/2mDdIsIhEmsn9/DBGIL C+hIrG1sYoOIG0rseXWeCcLWkzi8dRaYzSKgIrH55w2wGl4Ba4l7hw8yg9iMAmIS30+tAath FhCXuPVkPhPEdQISS/acZ4awRSVePv7HCmErSew9dp0Foj5ZYm7XcyaImYISJ2c+YZnAKDQL yahZSMpmISmDiOtILNj9iQ3C1pZYtvA1M4x95sBjJmTxBYzsqxhFi1OLi3PTjYz0Uosyk4uL 8/P08lJLNjEC4+Pglt9WOxgPPnc8xCjAwajEw/tWNDtaiDWxrLgy9xCjBAezkgjvZnGgEG9K YmVValF+fFFpTmrxIUZpDhYlcV6nNIsoIYH0xJLU7NTUgtQimCwTB6dUA6Pw1hU+u2/Lh+6w 7fogEbNV3HeHiv7hHY/PLT6pOz/+w6dipuPd8tEnmHiyNIPYz0i+sjvg/POR8Dpm7rDoTS9X Bf81EPLmfPHgyOy1YrvKowty3K24t0garw1Zz3ww8HWqiKb95DM5nvuW2i+1zVM+vOOnuHa2 bN49q8bcvoow/oXfEmfbPFBiKc5INNRiLipOBAAVhaKhiwIAAA== Archived-At: Subject: [rtcweb] SDP Identity attribute pull request X-BeenThere: rtcweb@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.27 Precedence: list List-Id: Real-Time Communication in WEB-browsers working group list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 08 Aug 2018 16:37:43 -0000 --_000_2a8bc11a02424e9183916eadd6767716ericssoncom_ Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hi, As agreed in Montreal, I have created a Pull Request for the SDP Identity a= ttribute. It suggests a new section for the attribute, and also includes an= Offer/Answer subsection: https://github.com/rtcweb-wg/security-arch/pull/77 If you are familiar with how the O/A procedures have previously been struct= ured, the new structure is based on the discussions we have had in MMUSIC. = For example, there is no longer any "Sending initial offer" section, as the= re has been confusion about what "initial" really means. Instead, the procedures now covers: 1) The O/A exchange when the attribute is added to a session 2) The O/A exchange when the attribute has been previously added to a = session, and is now maintained, modified or removed. Also, some of the procedures I have added were not previously defined in th= e draft, so they may need to be modified. Especially regarding the case whe= n an endpoint does not accept (for whatever reason) the received attribute = value. Regards, Christer --_000_2a8bc11a02424e9183916eadd6767716ericssoncom_ Content-Type: text/html; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

Hi,

 = ;

As agreed = in Montreal, I have created a Pull Request for the SDP Identity attribute. = It suggests a new section for the attribute, and also includes an Offer/Answer subsection:

 = ;

https://github.com/rtc= web-wg/security-arch/pull/77

 = ;

If you are= familiar with how the O/A procedures have previously been structured, the = new structure is based on the discussions we have had in MMUSIC. For example, there is no longer any “Sending initial = offer” section, as there has been confusion about what “initial= ” really means.

 = ;

Instead, t= he procedures now covers:

 = ;

1)      Th= e O/A exchange when the attribute is added to a session

2)      Th= e O/A exchange when the attribute has been previously added to a session, a= nd is now maintained, modified or removed.

 = ;

Also, some= of the procedures I have added were not previously defined in the draft, s= o they may need to be modified. Especially regarding the case when an endpoint does not accept (for whatever reason) the receiv= ed attribute value.

 = ;

Regards,

 = ;

Christer

 =

--_000_2a8bc11a02424e9183916eadd6767716ericssoncom_-- From nobody Thu Aug 9 07:47:00 2018 Return-Path: X-Original-To: rtcweb@ietf.org Delivered-To: rtcweb@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from ietfa.amsl.com (localhost [IPv6:::1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id A8CE3130FCE; Thu, 9 Aug 2018 07:46:51 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: IETF Secretariat To: Cc: rtcweb@ietf.org, ipr-announce@ietf.org X-Test-IDTracker: no X-IETF-IDTracker: 6.83.0 Auto-Submitted: auto-generated Precedence: bulk Message-ID: <153382601167.29078.14922303473605407845@ietfa.amsl.com> Date: Thu, 09 Aug 2018 07:46:51 -0700 Archived-At: Subject: [rtcweb] IPR Disclosure Koninklijke KPN N.V.'s Statement about IPR related to draft-alvestrand-rtcweb-overview X-BeenThere: rtcweb@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.27 List-Id: Real-Time Communication in WEB-browsers working group list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 09 Aug 2018 14:46:59 -0000 Dear Harald T. Alvestrand: An IPR disclosure that pertains to your Internet-Draft entitled "Overview: Real Time Protocols for Brower-based Applications" (draft-alvestrand-rtcweb-overview) was submitted to the IETF Secretariat on and has been posted on the "IETF Page of Intellectual Property Rights Disclosures" (https://datatracker.ietf.org/ipr/3250/). The title of the IPR disclosure is "Koninklijke KPN N.V.'s Statement about IPR related to draft-alvestrand-rtcweb-overview" Thank you IETF Secretariat From nobody Sun Aug 12 23:30:42 2018 Return-Path: X-Original-To: rtcweb@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: rtcweb@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 22D8D130E61 for ; Sun, 12 Aug 2018 23:30:41 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -4.31 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-4.31 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-2.3, SPF_PASS=-0.001, T_DKIMWL_WL_HIGH=-0.01] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (1024-bit key) header.d=ericsson.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id mWTt9smV721h for ; Sun, 12 Aug 2018 23:30:39 -0700 (PDT) Received: from sessmg23.ericsson.net (sessmg23.ericsson.net [193.180.251.45]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 2FAC2129385 for ; Sun, 12 Aug 2018 23:30:39 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; d=ericsson.com; s=mailgw201801; c=relaxed/simple; q=dns/txt; i=@ericsson.com; t=1534141837; h=From:Sender:Reply-To:Subject:Date:Message-ID:To:Cc:MIME-Version:Content-Type: Content-Transfer-Encoding:Content-ID:Content-Description:Resent-Date:Resent-From: Resent-Sender:Resent-To:Resent-Cc:Resent-Message-ID:In-Reply-To:References:List-Id: List-Help:List-Unsubscribe:List-Subscribe:List-Post:List-Owner:List-Archive; bh=JGTBHptoWFn8kXXZCIH1aJgyNIEZdCuCuaCvx45rDHg=; b=gOGvIO+TLLi7453ThuWtcLJkftdF7lX3ptFyx2eV1ybjHl7mByycCULr1IbPQTkh 7OpGbBJ9Bh7g13wew+zd/xyUlNpG8TDij/1PuWZ8cMMgzfDpKWDKqLptANOolkDZ rmmTbH7E98itgUsbkNRCMLV2YahHKSEXEYqcNEadfFI=; X-AuditID: c1b4fb2d-5ecb19c0000055ff-b6-5b71258d5ce3 Received: from ESESBMB502.ericsson.se (Unknown_Domain [153.88.183.115]) by sessmg23.ericsson.net (Symantec Mail Security) with SMTP id 83.38.22015.D85217B5; Mon, 13 Aug 2018 08:30:37 +0200 (CEST) Received: from ESESBMB503.ericsson.se (153.88.183.170) by ESESBMB502.ericsson.se (153.88.183.169) with Microsoft SMTP Server (version=TLS1_2, cipher=TLS_ECDHE_RSA_WITH_AES_128_CBC_SHA256_P256) id 15.1.1466.3; Mon, 13 Aug 2018 08:29:55 +0200 Received: from ESESBMB503.ericsson.se ([153.88.183.186]) by ESESBMB503.ericsson.se ([153.88.183.186]) with mapi id 15.01.1466.003; Mon, 13 Aug 2018 08:29:55 +0200 From: Christer Holmberg To: "rtcweb@ietf.org" Thread-Topic: Identity assertion: impact by removal or adding of fingerprints? Thread-Index: AQHUMs8M0o/pIRhEEUmmaI1RsjVoiw== Date: Mon, 13 Aug 2018 06:29:55 +0000 Message-ID: Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: user-agent: Microsoft-MacOutlook/14.7.7.170905 x-originating-ip: [153.88.183.157] Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="_000_D79701DE34018christerholmbergericssoncom_" MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Brightmail-Tracker: H4sIAAAAAAAAA+NgFupikeLIzCtJLcpLzFFi42KZGbG9WLdXtTDa4MgWTou1/9rZHRg9liz5 yRTAGMVlk5Kak1mWWqRvl8CV8efQZJaCPr6Kv1deMzUwfuTuYuTkkBAwkXiz9iZTFyMXh5DA UUaJOet2s0E43xgl/q6Zwg7hLGOUmNTfztzFyMHBJmAh0f1PG6RbREBd4vLDC+wgtrCAp8S7 Z83sEHE/ifdXJjJC2HoS39+dZQFpZRFQlfg+qxokzCtgLbFg9iwWEJtRQEzi+6k1TCA2s4C4 xK0n85kgjhOQWLLnPDOELSrx8vE/VhBbFGjkhhO32SHiShJberdA9SZI/Dz1khVivqDEyZlP WCYwCs9CMnYWkrJZSMog4joSC3Z/YoOwtSWWLXzNDGOfOfAYqtdaYv6Mh6zIahYwcqxiFC1O LS7OTTcy1kstykwuLs7P08tLLdnECIyhg1t+6+5gXP3a8RCjAAejEg/vLanCaCHWxLLiytxD jBIczEoivBcYCqKFeFMSK6tSi/Lji0pzUosPMUpzsCiJ8+qt2hMlJJCeWJKanZpakFoEk2Xi 4JRqYHQ8vLDVSOxSXUjSzp9lrhy12xh29B5ef3fq3YBg8XDXkqhP0Wvf7ZiV07C1TVavfvmH 4pttqa2Xer2/ucj+MZx6/lZlyqufuhlXfBM2R95Iz+oQ/c37IzAodOnZRTmv92w8tkrgmstb Lg2xoHI7aeUPLiInXzws93SwuiGT8/GQoNS8D43tr5RYijMSDbWYi4oTAZxJ/QedAgAA Archived-At: Subject: [rtcweb] Identity assertion: impact by removal or adding of fingerprints? X-BeenThere: rtcweb@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.27 Precedence: list List-Id: Real-Time Communication in WEB-browsers working group list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 13 Aug 2018 06:30:41 -0000 --_000_D79701DE34018christerholmbergericssoncom_ Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hi, One thing that came to my mind when working on the SDP Identity attribute p= ull request. In WebRTC, and in the draft, we assume that the identity assertion is bound= to the fingerprints. What if fingerprints are removed, or added, during a session. Will that imp= act the identity assertion? A fingerprint can be removed if it is only used for one m- section, and tha= t m- section is disabled. Regards, Christer --_000_D79701DE34018christerholmbergericssoncom_ Content-Type: text/html; charset="us-ascii" Content-ID: Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

Hi,

One thing that came to my mind when working on the SDP Identity attrib= ute pull request.

In WebRTC, and in the draft, we assume that the identity assertion is = bound to the fingerprints.

What if fingerprints are removed, or added, during a session. Will tha= t impact the identity assertion? 

A fingerprint can be removed if it is only used for one m- section, an= d that m- section is disabled. 

Regards,

Christer
--_000_D79701DE34018christerholmbergericssoncom_-- From nobody Sun Aug 12 23:35:33 2018 Return-Path: X-Original-To: rtcweb@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: rtcweb@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1E41F130E46 for ; Sun, 12 Aug 2018 23:35:31 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.999 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.999 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=gmail.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id hBahapKRzJlf for ; Sun, 12 Aug 2018 23:35:29 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail-oi0-x22a.google.com (mail-oi0-x22a.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:4003:c06::22a]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 2491E130E0C for ; Sun, 12 Aug 2018 23:35:29 -0700 (PDT) Received: by mail-oi0-x22a.google.com with SMTP id 8-v6so25491146oip.0 for ; Sun, 12 Aug 2018 23:35:29 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20161025; h=mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date:message-id:subject:to :cc; bh=3JpDLRvgyzJ8nX1g1z+jiSDIKOxUIlTkcAiSeWItu/M=; b=FfvX453r19d0pxPxtb8z4hFUXzpF/IcW4L0Tk4mI4GdmDEkbCQtKP2mf5MxjykPtZw e2RaRxnQPHvZEXx2y8g5bJkHZbm6A1ECkvU+NmTJsahAP2LpNFaFlFZPTIzSF/3RXTN+ iryx9puvj993DkXEfFt8uP+mkYqKx10NWqiQIRLv1JhKaL5LUBlfRA1iLBS2Kx2IWwnD Nxq3eCW1bpZkKQCLv2te0Igbq/G2Nzm4jOcA6U0FNb8FzJWhqewDU5iCnIBPgOPeUGP+ 9Myz2u/8ub01GVMTyBk0Z1ii0l8WZ3JFLCzswpAHNK6y1GF7hQKBhBSmiwvePdLSyTIG B51Q== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date :message-id:subject:to:cc; bh=3JpDLRvgyzJ8nX1g1z+jiSDIKOxUIlTkcAiSeWItu/M=; b=hTVk6xUqRWqQS+KXOvVsfppwsjKijfElT03kd8R+cWP57MolcWLC5Wj9dHloBwc+J9 z8pxJiHuxBROsZcRe9BbCf4joW6RiYx3QeaPLFFLGE5eglksJtHU5cAGu9b0qWT1PJZP H0RANp5Jn7azxOM/Pr23DzcaAsPdFWJ94j9MN3ytOAWiBmgAWHVzYNnIWlUWdCgkCX6L eJ1mZ4dg8ojxEtWBJGHs22xQusHH1wtZvDCVTo21CyVOWuzUvbJ9YtMhlSfukSh/FrQL +yrjMdrpc0wmatziJrsDjw/Kn5OhRgd3BO9Sjw6PN/z45/esej6Y/fWH4k1tl/OzWxrP IMTg== X-Gm-Message-State: AOUpUlG54lcNyWR3WjfB2+pPzipzAzfeprPSQjizvzxL6KtbxU6Zv1HH VwHD8udgVAgjGgtxXiHzQ+OIBZyPg8B5/Z0QCdc= X-Google-Smtp-Source: AA+uWPzFwf8C+tLW6aOyzaXpRkfTkh4gaQ3mTTckLkuflZauEk1JrssDkXOkBij9tKkKcZIDYVFkQuiip9qcBsMxuek= X-Received: by 2002:aca:100f:: with SMTP id 15-v6mr17587984oiq.110.1534142128443; Sun, 12 Aug 2018 23:35:28 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 References: In-Reply-To: From: Martin Thomson Date: Mon, 13 Aug 2018 16:35:19 +1000 Message-ID: To: Christer Holmberg Cc: RTCWeb IETF Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Archived-At: Subject: Re: [rtcweb] Identity assertion: impact by removal or adding of fingerprints? X-BeenThere: rtcweb@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.27 Precedence: list List-Id: Real-Time Communication in WEB-browsers working group list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 13 Aug 2018 06:35:31 -0000 Unused fingerprints aren't a problem. a=fingerprint offers multiple options, any of which could be used. The a=identity attribute is no different. If a fingerprint is authenticated, but not used, that's OK as long as the ones that are used are covered. If a new fingerprint is added, that's OK, as long as the a=identity previously covered that value, or is amended to include the new value. On Mon, Aug 13, 2018 at 4:30 PM Christer Holmberg wrote: > > > Hi, > > One thing that came to my mind when working on the SDP Identity attribute pull request. > > In WebRTC, and in the draft, we assume that the identity assertion is bound to the fingerprints. > > What if fingerprints are removed, or added, during a session. Will that impact the identity assertion? > > A fingerprint can be removed if it is only used for one m- section, and that m- section is disabled. > > Regards, > > Christer > _______________________________________________ > rtcweb mailing list > rtcweb@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/rtcweb From nobody Mon Aug 13 00:24:27 2018 Return-Path: X-Original-To: rtcweb@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: rtcweb@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2CE44130E64 for ; Mon, 13 Aug 2018 00:24:26 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -4.31 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-4.31 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-2.3, SPF_PASS=-0.001, T_DKIMWL_WL_HIGH=-0.01, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (1024-bit key) header.d=ericsson.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id xbllfOyejDBf for ; Mon, 13 Aug 2018 00:24:24 -0700 (PDT) Received: from sessmg22.ericsson.net (sessmg22.ericsson.net [193.180.251.58]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 17CAC1294D0 for ; Mon, 13 Aug 2018 00:24:23 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; d=ericsson.com; s=mailgw201801; c=relaxed/simple; q=dns/txt; i=@ericsson.com; t=1534145062; h=From:Sender:Reply-To:Subject:Date:Message-ID:To:CC:MIME-Version:Content-Type: Content-Transfer-Encoding:Content-ID:Content-Description:Resent-Date:Resent-From: Resent-Sender:Resent-To:Resent-Cc:Resent-Message-ID:In-Reply-To:References:List-Id: List-Help:List-Unsubscribe:List-Subscribe:List-Post:List-Owner:List-Archive; bh=Q9zRLxlJ73suDtcpquT9ZQHlxesYx8PP3KoBQLGhsCM=; b=XOK89a5lZZauHOfLhoNKpYSfoKSUo5nBKopTgbRzmVlLuTfSxAFIyUbdx1K8204g xMYwO5scLeBN/2o1Po9klTeSz3yapMS8gyBM5UKh3jT8+ZjkGT9XnV0NUf/rARRd VeQfKAGeh7ud4QvJ5MA2ynKiFxlYJU3nhXJR/vd0WsM=; X-AuditID: c1b4fb3a-864269c00000145f-76-5b7132261a29 Received: from ESESSMB503.ericsson.se (Unknown_Domain [153.88.183.121]) by sessmg22.ericsson.net (Symantec Mail Security) with SMTP id 10.E4.05215.622317B5; Mon, 13 Aug 2018 09:24:22 +0200 (CEST) Received: from ESESBMB503.ericsson.se (153.88.183.170) by ESESSMB503.ericsson.se (153.88.183.164) with Microsoft SMTP Server (version=TLS1_2, cipher=TLS_ECDHE_RSA_WITH_AES_128_CBC_SHA256_P256) id 15.1.1466.3; Mon, 13 Aug 2018 09:23:35 +0200 Received: from ESESBMB503.ericsson.se ([153.88.183.186]) by ESESBMB503.ericsson.se ([153.88.183.186]) with mapi id 15.01.1466.003; Mon, 13 Aug 2018 09:23:35 +0200 From: Christer Holmberg To: Martin Thomson CC: RTCWeb IETF Thread-Topic: [rtcweb] Identity assertion: impact by removal or adding of fingerprints? Thread-Index: AQHUMs8M0o/pIRhEEUmmaI1RsjVoi6S9GHaAgABB7AA= Date: Mon, 13 Aug 2018 07:23:35 +0000 Message-ID: References: In-Reply-To: Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: user-agent: Microsoft-MacOutlook/14.7.7.170905 x-originating-ip: [153.88.183.157] Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-ID: <471E33AF503B774BA21A61321FAE2DE0@ericsson.com> Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Brightmail-Tracker: H4sIAAAAAAAAA+NgFlrLIsWRmVeSWpSXmKPExsUyM2J7pa6aUWG0wf7P/BbXzvxjtFj7r53d gclj56y77B5LlvxkCmCK4rJJSc3JLEst0rdL4MrYuHwZW8FT7oq9R5tYGhjXcXYxcnJICJhI nLn0la2LkYtDSOAoo8TXHw/YIZxvjBI/djyCyixjlOjaMY+5i5GDg03AQqL7nzZIt4iArsSi syANnBzMAooSX5bPZwOxhQUiJGac/McCURMpcX/2SzYI20piQssaJpAxLAKqEh/Wm4GEeQWs JX7dWcwMsaqJUWL3lTVgMzkFAiWOz1oEZjMKiEl8PwXSC7JLXOLWk/lMEB8ISCzZc54ZwhaV ePn4HyuILSqgJ7HhxG12iLiSxJbeLVC9OhILdn9ig7CtJa68uwIV15ZYtvA1M8RBghInZz5h mcAoMQvJullI2mchaZ+FpH0WkvYFjKyrGEWLU4uLc9ONjPRSizKTi4vz8/TyUks2MQIj8eCW 31Y7GA8+dzzEKMDBqMTDK6JfGC3EmlhWXJl7iFGCg1lJhPcCQ0G0EG9KYmVValF+fFFpTmrx IUZpDhYlcV6nNIsoIYH0xJLU7NTUgtQimCwTB6dUAyPXqSM7l6461f2ZqUbxcElEVva85cv/ BG3ayC1+9diVq1suRd1foHP0b/IvZeV/R57+64xcwnJD8EDHW9uLK5avFuVm37HSci4Pq/h0 fRmroooLG5er3l8XrVJb+bJYZmnZ/pfCa/48+5ekdYTjtjw/g+KVBiUj12KPNnmTvXu9asKv 9z1MfTpViaU4I9FQi7moOBEAOH5OWcACAAA= Archived-At: Subject: Re: [rtcweb] Identity assertion: impact by removal or adding of fingerprints? X-BeenThere: rtcweb@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.27 Precedence: list List-Id: Real-Time Communication in WEB-browsers working group list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 13 Aug 2018 07:24:26 -0000 Hi, >Unused fingerprints aren't a problem. a=3Dfingerprint offers multiple >options, any of which could be used. The a=3Didentity attribute is no >different. If a fingerprint is authenticated, but not used, that's OK >as long as the ones that are used are covered. That may require a little re-wording, because I think the text now says that each fingerprint that was used to create the assertion must always be included in offers and answers. >If a new fingerprint is added, that's OK, as long as the a=3Didentity >previously covered that value, That may not be true if one e.g., adds a new m- section with a fingerprint that has not previously been used. >or is amended to include the new value. How does that work? Regards, Christer >On Mon, Aug 13, 2018 at 4:30 PM Christer Holmberg > wrote: >> >> >> Hi, >> >> One thing that came to my mind when working on the SDP Identity >>attribute pull request. >> >> In WebRTC, and in the draft, we assume that the identity assertion is >>bound to the fingerprints. >> >> What if fingerprints are removed, or added, during a session. Will that >>impact the identity assertion? >> >> A fingerprint can be removed if it is only used for one m- section, and >>that m- section is disabled. >> >> Regards, >> >> Christer >> _______________________________________________ >> rtcweb mailing list >> rtcweb@ietf.org >> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/rtcweb From nobody Tue Aug 14 23:25:08 2018 Return-Path: X-Original-To: rtcweb@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: rtcweb@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 687B2130E7E for ; Tue, 14 Aug 2018 23:25:06 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -4.31 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-4.31 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-2.3, SPF_PASS=-0.001, T_DKIMWL_WL_HIGH=-0.01, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (1024-bit key) header.d=ericsson.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id KmMjbIFsFu5a for ; Tue, 14 Aug 2018 23:25:05 -0700 (PDT) Received: from sesbmg23.ericsson.net (sesbmg23.ericsson.net [193.180.251.37]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id BC441130DDB for ; Tue, 14 Aug 2018 23:25:04 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; d=ericsson.com; s=mailgw201801; c=relaxed/simple; q=dns/txt; i=@ericsson.com; t=1534314302; h=From:Sender:Reply-To:Subject:Date:Message-ID:To:CC:MIME-Version:Content-Type: Content-Transfer-Encoding:Content-ID:Content-Description:Resent-Date:Resent-From: Resent-Sender:Resent-To:Resent-Cc:Resent-Message-ID:In-Reply-To:References:List-Id: List-Help:List-Unsubscribe:List-Subscribe:List-Post:List-Owner:List-Archive; bh=4jxk0DeAFEexhWe36omlkDuxjfuM3lThj9L53tKzslA=; b=YY2RAV32uVECVTptQ+RaeEeiQXL3LOQsBn+3jKqcX58D72Njq83DrLew13WtgjpM xYfqeWsTvtxArmV3bn25U3wWN+BWo/j4bo0r6VW2y+6Ar4W5+Q9M8mMkU2EEvXtY 0Ron26dSemfQ+s5zkGjcfMovQ1I4j1ZB81kyemzQVWc=; X-AuditID: c1b4fb25-b1dff70000006cb9-a6-5b73c73ebcd6 Received: from ESESBMB502.ericsson.se (Unknown_Domain [153.88.183.115]) by sesbmg23.ericsson.net (Symantec Mail Security) with SMTP id B3.1D.27833.E37C37B5; Wed, 15 Aug 2018 08:25:02 +0200 (CEST) Received: from ESESBMB503.ericsson.se (153.88.183.170) by ESESBMB502.ericsson.se (153.88.183.169) with Microsoft SMTP Server (version=TLS1_2, cipher=TLS_ECDHE_RSA_WITH_AES_128_CBC_SHA256_P256) id 15.1.1466.3; Wed, 15 Aug 2018 08:25:02 +0200 Received: from ESESBMB503.ericsson.se ([153.88.183.186]) by ESESBMB503.ericsson.se ([153.88.183.186]) with mapi id 15.01.1466.003; Wed, 15 Aug 2018 08:25:02 +0200 From: Christer Holmberg To: Christer Holmberg , Martin Thomson CC: RTCWeb IETF Thread-Topic: [rtcweb] Identity assertion: impact by removal or adding of fingerprints? Thread-Index: AQHUMs8M0o/pIRhEEUmmaI1RsjVoi6S9GHaAgABB7ACAAxRWAA== Date: Wed, 15 Aug 2018 06:25:02 +0000 Message-ID: References: In-Reply-To: Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: user-agent: Microsoft-MacOutlook/14.7.7.170905 x-originating-ip: [153.88.183.157] Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-ID: <9FB3DA7ABF6D384BB04852069F1595A7@ericsson.com> Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Brightmail-Tracker: H4sIAAAAAAAAA+NgFlrNIsWRmVeSWpSXmKPExsUyM2J7sa7d8eJog6279C2unfnHaLH2Xzu7 A5PHzll32T2WLPnJFMAUxWWTkpqTWZZapG+XwJWx++1S1oJuwYpj614yNjA+5e1i5OSQEDCR WHPgN3MXIxeHkMBRRokzXfuZIJxvQM6E06wgVUICyxgl+l+bdzFycLAJWEh0/9MGCYsIJEuc ebGQGcRmFlCU+LJ8PhuILSwQITHj5D8WiJpIifuzX7JB2E4S637cBbNZBFQl/nz/xgYyklfA WuLdtTyITVsYJV7O9AKxOQVsJFbvmgV2AaOAmMT3U2uYIFaJS9x6Mp8J4n4BiSV7zjND2KIS Lx//A6sXFdCT2HDiNjtEXEliS+8WqF49iRtTp7BB2NYSfc/PsUPY2hLLFr4Gm8MrIChxcuYT lgmMErOQrJuFpH0WkvZZSNpnIWlfwMi6ilG0OLU4KTfdyFgvtSgzubg4P08vL7VkEyMwCg9u +a26g/HyG8dDjAIcjEo8vPN2FUcLsSaWFVfmHmKU4GBWEuFdlg8U4k1JrKxKLcqPLyrNSS0+ xCjNwaIkzvvQfHOUkEB6YklqdmpqQWoRTJaJg1OqgdF34h/VbTM/eBZkFS1QO/X16JQfi3Sv dqrFer4LnuuamhhZlf3yedukFPbZR82fz/9y5PPz1kCP33NeVyQdKH7ql+gU/clPvaTvqIDP prMLWguusAsd2nJFSrnxdOiHI/Lnl33+Klm3LF3HftWLa+ahfM9+rPlqEO6gpjfrL9Mkwf2J aXyvOBqUWIozEg21mIuKEwG9axmAvgIAAA== Archived-At: Subject: Re: [rtcweb] Identity assertion: impact by removal or adding of fingerprints? X-BeenThere: rtcweb@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.27 Precedence: list List-Id: Real-Time Communication in WEB-browsers working group list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 15 Aug 2018 06:25:06 -0000 Hi, One possibility would be to say that an endpoint is not allowed to add a new fingerprint (that hasn=B9t been used before within the session), if updating of the identity assertion is not supported. Is it possible to use the same fingerprint for multiple m- lines, even if they are not bundled? Regards, Christer On 13/08/18 10:23, "rtcweb on behalf of Christer Holmberg" wrote: > >Hi, > >>Unused fingerprints aren't a problem. a=3Dfingerprint offers multiple >>options, any of which could be used. The a=3Didentity attribute is no >>different. If a fingerprint is authenticated, but not used, that's OK >>as long as the ones that are used are covered. > >That may require a little re-wording, because I think the text now says >that each fingerprint that was used to create the assertion must always be >included in offers and answers. > >>If a new fingerprint is added, that's OK, as long as the a=3Didentity >>previously covered that value, > >That may not be true if one e.g., adds a new m- section with a fingerprint >that has not previously been used. > >>or is amended to include the new value. > >How does that work? > >Regards, > >Christer > > > > > > > >>On Mon, Aug 13, 2018 at 4:30 PM Christer Holmberg >> wrote: >>> >>> >>> Hi, >>> >>> One thing that came to my mind when working on the SDP Identity >>>attribute pull request. >>> >>> In WebRTC, and in the draft, we assume that the identity assertion is >>>bound to the fingerprints. >>> >>> What if fingerprints are removed, or added, during a session. Will that >>>impact the identity assertion? >>> >>> A fingerprint can be removed if it is only used for one m- section, and >>>that m- section is disabled. >>> >>> Regards, >>> >>> Christer >>> _______________________________________________ >>> rtcweb mailing list >>> rtcweb@ietf.org >>> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/rtcweb > >_______________________________________________ >rtcweb mailing list >rtcweb@ietf.org >https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/rtcweb From nobody Tue Aug 14 23:50:31 2018 Return-Path: X-Original-To: rtcweb@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: rtcweb@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 958F3130ECF for ; Tue, 14 Aug 2018 23:50:30 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.999 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.999 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=gmail.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id CFelppCwwIGI for ; Tue, 14 Aug 2018 23:50:28 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail-oi0-x234.google.com (mail-oi0-x234.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:4003:c06::234]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 69FDA130EB2 for ; Tue, 14 Aug 2018 23:50:28 -0700 (PDT) Received: by mail-oi0-x234.google.com with SMTP id n21-v6so449297oig.3 for ; Tue, 14 Aug 2018 23:50:28 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20161025; h=mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date:message-id:subject:to :cc:content-transfer-encoding; bh=pebkvXryX1Mwe7VPH4qscF6MuXhYsycPfISmhW8lOI0=; b=JBahQ4gN0BU20ayMFAyidqk2p6HCMTUr2Mc09s3mgEKBggy5d2XcPaswvop8FuLQyC NgVEBYJLQhmk6ErrOxZ9RC4FEar3I5iK5mRWbH08FMYR88k7YHZ6zcTY9tEQtqhW6/0a TTAxIQmh+QFYhDWFusp3Wn1GPabj1D9s9VBpPAfghjfT42M2AwA3R6UxoS7MrqzjRgu6 P/VK42LJLIrzVerFgKjl0g3tacGPJmzNVk22BEwixa//kISc+iT11GZOY4AzonzbHU7f FywWJy86C0zROIW1wtvo4WZzOTvFvwYynwFyzPzGvq63Qf0RiOfpZBBLmboyoqBph9q7 Px3w== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date :message-id:subject:to:cc:content-transfer-encoding; bh=pebkvXryX1Mwe7VPH4qscF6MuXhYsycPfISmhW8lOI0=; b=dX94JhbAYijKpNmdtajWlAW1i8LHPez+7OpXmjMZPXlbT4lX7pDRs/gbFQyVSnSEkY DgCSNcQowDpSaKi6AHogM/DYguRgl/k1Nt+rBMdsnJOQd3UYY4Hk8f8QnZ2fhaDKlZvQ /UKDxB8B5G6nwnyKdIs5aWOFa4nf94OZlXdl6iG64X8z6Amhfhlv+5wKTEfM7kw0X1Jf 2FxW+A3BeFL9ixUtisJgt9QBLQmcTOtrbiNxMND/ZT7/1oqqj0CLtB+D66yhE/Mykn5Z JmcFMhQncqPD1Nhq8i3zg0Sb8Vb5moSiLGgZRP2BOwW/ARx6Owmy9J53Ikl9GW1lIZLB qKrg== X-Gm-Message-State: AOUpUlHaAFJ1RvTFM9U0Av5ehn+b9429WnGMhEH0yJV7hZylK9RQ0w9s Wxsd3axDLpt8DXydNWyBCux924f7FOkAQaguf4Y= X-Google-Smtp-Source: AA+uWPxHoGSsPFKn3JHKAZLeLf7fsUWBE4V2VFs9bMUtx/19l6kIApOfeMNgGct0U6pBWBI3EnYzGQTcWBqc1GmMpm4= X-Received: by 2002:aca:100f:: with SMTP id 15-v6mr27009385oiq.110.1534315827642; Tue, 14 Aug 2018 23:50:27 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 References: In-Reply-To: From: Martin Thomson Date: Wed, 15 Aug 2018 16:50:16 +1000 Message-ID: To: Christer Holmberg Cc: RTCWeb IETF Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Archived-At: Subject: Re: [rtcweb] Identity assertion: impact by removal or adding of fingerprints? X-BeenThere: rtcweb@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.27 Precedence: list List-Id: Real-Time Communication in WEB-browsers working group list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 15 Aug 2018 06:50:31 -0000 The assertion can change, it's the identity that results that can't change (in WebRTC, and likely many other cases). On Wed, Aug 15, 2018 at 4:25 PM Christer Holmberg wrote: > > > Hi, > > One possibility would be to say that an endpoint is not allowed to add a > new fingerprint (that hasn=C2=B9t been used before within the session), i= f > updating of the identity assertion is not supported. > > Is it possible to use the same fingerprint for multiple m- lines, even if > they are not bundled? > > Regards, > > Christer > > > > On 13/08/18 10:23, "rtcweb on behalf of Christer Holmberg" > > wrote: > > > > >Hi, > > > >>Unused fingerprints aren't a problem. a=3Dfingerprint offers multiple > >>options, any of which could be used. The a=3Didentity attribute is no > >>different. If a fingerprint is authenticated, but not used, that's OK > >>as long as the ones that are used are covered. > > > >That may require a little re-wording, because I think the text now says > >that each fingerprint that was used to create the assertion must always = be > >included in offers and answers. > > > >>If a new fingerprint is added, that's OK, as long as the a=3Didentity > >>previously covered that value, > > > >That may not be true if one e.g., adds a new m- section with a fingerpri= nt > >that has not previously been used. > > > >>or is amended to include the new value. > > > >How does that work? > > > >Regards, > > > >Christer > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >>On Mon, Aug 13, 2018 at 4:30 PM Christer Holmberg > >> wrote: > >>> > >>> > >>> Hi, > >>> > >>> One thing that came to my mind when working on the SDP Identity > >>>attribute pull request. > >>> > >>> In WebRTC, and in the draft, we assume that the identity assertion is > >>>bound to the fingerprints. > >>> > >>> What if fingerprints are removed, or added, during a session. Will th= at > >>>impact the identity assertion? > >>> > >>> A fingerprint can be removed if it is only used for one m- section, a= nd > >>>that m- section is disabled. > >>> > >>> Regards, > >>> > >>> Christer > >>> _______________________________________________ > >>> rtcweb mailing list > >>> rtcweb@ietf.org > >>> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/rtcweb > > > >_______________________________________________ > >rtcweb mailing list > >rtcweb@ietf.org > >https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/rtcweb > From nobody Wed Aug 15 00:10:47 2018 Return-Path: X-Original-To: rtcweb@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: rtcweb@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id A171E130ECF for ; Wed, 15 Aug 2018 00:10:45 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -4.31 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-4.31 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-2.3, SPF_PASS=-0.001, T_DKIMWL_WL_HIGH=-0.01, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (1024-bit key) header.d=ericsson.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id wUskpkry-Lfn for ; Wed, 15 Aug 2018 00:10:43 -0700 (PDT) Received: from sessmg22.ericsson.net (sessmg22.ericsson.net [193.180.251.58]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 43281126DBF for ; Wed, 15 Aug 2018 00:10:43 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; d=ericsson.com; s=mailgw201801; c=relaxed/simple; q=dns/txt; i=@ericsson.com; t=1534317026; h=From:Sender:Reply-To:Subject:Date:Message-ID:To:CC:MIME-Version:Content-Type: Content-Transfer-Encoding:Content-ID:Content-Description:Resent-Date:Resent-From: Resent-Sender:Resent-To:Resent-Cc:Resent-Message-ID:In-Reply-To:References:List-Id: List-Help:List-Unsubscribe:List-Subscribe:List-Post:List-Owner:List-Archive; bh=qd4HpyifAEfHXSLWR1pxHv5n4f4ytsxlCCAc8nmBLSo=; b=ce1FlraSCbsoAQdVendc2nhknN7I/kSFxK+swllIhlN0Rx7AVrQyiYieF/tqqJnU /2VgJbyGGi9pYEr4CKxz0BVw3tytQfox2MsRzQXmeAWgoyGR/T3q7KGPeta4v96Z KMUGqfm2KJvk5BwzZ05/YYgbVXpKtn3iB1El3ws7FzQ=; X-AuditID: c1b4fb3a-499ff7000000145f-d4-5b73d1e25a7d Received: from ESESBMB501.ericsson.se (Unknown_Domain [153.88.183.114]) by sessmg22.ericsson.net (Symantec Mail Security) with SMTP id 0B.BC.05215.2E1D37B5; Wed, 15 Aug 2018 09:10:26 +0200 (CEST) Received: from ESESBMB503.ericsson.se (153.88.183.170) by ESESBMB501.ericsson.se (153.88.183.168) with Microsoft SMTP Server (version=TLS1_2, cipher=TLS_ECDHE_RSA_WITH_AES_128_CBC_SHA256_P256) id 15.1.1466.3; Wed, 15 Aug 2018 09:10:25 +0200 Received: from ESESBMB503.ericsson.se ([153.88.183.186]) by ESESBMB503.ericsson.se ([153.88.183.186]) with mapi id 15.01.1466.003; Wed, 15 Aug 2018 09:10:25 +0200 From: Christer Holmberg To: Martin Thomson CC: RTCWeb IETF Thread-Topic: [rtcweb] Identity assertion: impact by removal or adding of fingerprints? Thread-Index: AQHUMs8M0o/pIRhEEUmmaI1RsjVoi6S9GHaAgABB7ACAAxRWAP//0pUAgAA6GYA= Date: Wed, 15 Aug 2018 07:10:25 +0000 Message-ID: References: In-Reply-To: Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: user-agent: Microsoft-MacOutlook/14.7.7.170905 x-originating-ip: [153.88.183.157] Content-Type: text/plain; charset="euc-kr" Content-ID: <9AC77BC43351844D9A3726C5C2304344@ericsson.com> Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Brightmail-Tracker: H4sIAAAAAAAAA+NgFlrHIsWRmVeSWpSXmKPExsUyM2J7ke6ji8XRBi92i1pcO/OP0WLtv3Z2 ByaPnbPusnssWfKTKYApissmJTUnsyy1SN8ugSvjwt01jAUr5Ct6FjawNzAekOti5OSQEDCR uDSjhbWLkYtDSOAoo8Sb/p8sEM43Rokzj9qhnGWMEt9OfQEq4+BgE7CQ6P6nDdItIqArsejs A3YQm1lAUeLL8vlsILawQITEjJP/WCBqIiXuz37JBmH7Sbz/cZoJxGYRUJWY8vAoWC+vgLXE zcZWqF1rmSSevv0JluAUCJR40/GHGcRmFBCT+H5qDRPEMnGJW0/mM0G8ICCxZM95ZghbVOLl 43+sILaogJ7EhhO32SHiShJberdA9WpJfPmxjw3Ctpb4u/IbK8wDU7ofQh0kKHFy5hOWCYwS s5Csm4WkfRaS9llI2mchaV/AyLqKUbQ4tbg4N93ISC+1KDO5uDg/Ty8vtWQTIzAWD275bbWD 8eBzx0OMAhyMSjy8XOeLo4VYE8uKK3MPMUpwMCuJ8C7LBwrxpiRWVqUW5ccXleakFh9ilOZg URLndUqziBISSE8sSc1OTS1ILYLJMnFwSjUwBneyXvt0wu1H+4Z77bM2SfHP5JG8vTx//fwj 2Q0RyS2q4sld+ncXXHx7Z8b7504P3l0ocOfrWGGikHTQjG+b5/2K+m8XO8sSq23PZ/x05RQV Le+sXuzL9+X30oWro9wjhbYannmyY/cCjupH4r11z3as2r7o6NWHR66ev1ix9o/11+TOn6u2 TFRiKc5INNRiLipOBAB/qI5cwQIAAA== Archived-At: Subject: Re: [rtcweb] Identity assertion: impact by removal or adding of fingerprints? X-BeenThere: rtcweb@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.27 Precedence: list List-Id: Real-Time Communication in WEB-browsers working group list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 15 Aug 2018 07:10:46 -0000 SGksDQoNCj5UaGUgYXNzZXJ0aW9uIGNhbiBjaGFuZ2UsIGl0J3MgdGhlIGlkZW50aXR5IHRoYXQg cmVzdWx0cyB0aGF0IGNhbid0DQo+Y2hhbmdlIChpbiBXZWJSVEMsIGFuZCBsaWtlbHkgbWFueSBv dGhlciBjYXNlcykuDQoNCk9rLiBNeSB1bmRlcnN0YW5kaW5nIHdhcyB0aGF0IGluIFdlYlJUQyB0 aGUgUEMgY2Fubm90IGNvbW11bmljYXRlIHdpdGggdGhlDQpJZFAgaW4gb3JkZXIgdG8gY3JlYXRl IGEgbmV3IGFzc2VydGlvbiAoZS5nLiwgd2hlbiBhIG5ldyBmaW5nZXJwcmludCBoYXMNCmJlZW4g YWRkZWQpLCBldmVuIHdpdGggdGhlIHNhbWUgaWRlbnRpdHksIGJ1dCBJoa9tIGdsYWQgaWYgSSB3 YXMgd3JvbmcgOikNCg0KUmVnYXJkcywNCg0KQ2hyaXN0ZXINCg0KDQoNCg0KDQo+T24gV2VkLCBB dWcgMTUsIDIwMTggYXQgNDoyNSBQTSBDaHJpc3RlciBIb2xtYmVyZw0KPjxjaHJpc3Rlci5ob2xt YmVyZ0Blcmljc3Nvbi5jb20+IHdyb3RlOg0KPj4NCj4+DQo+PiBIaSwNCj4+DQo+PiBPbmUgcG9z c2liaWxpdHkgd291bGQgYmUgdG8gc2F5IHRoYXQgYW4gZW5kcG9pbnQgaXMgbm90IGFsbG93ZWQg dG8gYWRkIGENCj4+IG5ldyBmaW5nZXJwcmludCAodGhhdCBoYXNuqfZ0IGJlZW4gdXNlZCBiZWZv cmUgd2l0aGluIHRoZSBzZXNzaW9uKSwgaWYNCj4+IHVwZGF0aW5nIG9mIHRoZSBpZGVudGl0eSBh c3NlcnRpb24gaXMgbm90IHN1cHBvcnRlZC4NCj4+DQo+PiBJcyBpdCBwb3NzaWJsZSB0byB1c2Ug dGhlIHNhbWUgZmluZ2VycHJpbnQgZm9yIG11bHRpcGxlIG0tIGxpbmVzLCBldmVuDQo+PmlmDQo+ PiB0aGV5IGFyZSBub3QgYnVuZGxlZD8NCj4+DQo+PiBSZWdhcmRzLA0KPj4NCj4+IENocmlzdGVy DQo+Pg0KPj4NCj4+DQo+PiBPbiAxMy8wOC8xOCAxMDoyMywgInJ0Y3dlYiBvbiBiZWhhbGYgb2Yg Q2hyaXN0ZXIgSG9sbWJlcmciDQo+PiA8cnRjd2ViLWJvdW5jZXNAaWV0Zi5vcmcgb24gYmVoYWxm IG9mIGNocmlzdGVyLmhvbG1iZXJnQGVyaWNzc29uLmNvbT4NCj4+IHdyb3RlOg0KPj4NCj4+ID4N Cj4+ID5IaSwNCj4+ID4NCj4+ID4+VW51c2VkIGZpbmdlcnByaW50cyBhcmVuJ3QgYSBwcm9ibGVt LiAgYT1maW5nZXJwcmludCBvZmZlcnMgbXVsdGlwbGUNCj4+ID4+b3B0aW9ucywgYW55IG9mIHdo aWNoIGNvdWxkIGJlIHVzZWQuICBUaGUgYT1pZGVudGl0eSBhdHRyaWJ1dGUgaXMgbm8NCj4+ID4+ ZGlmZmVyZW50LiAgSWYgYSBmaW5nZXJwcmludCBpcyBhdXRoZW50aWNhdGVkLCBidXQgbm90IHVz ZWQsIHRoYXQncyBPSw0KPj4gPj5hcyBsb25nIGFzIHRoZSBvbmVzIHRoYXQgYXJlIHVzZWQgYXJl IGNvdmVyZWQuDQo+PiA+DQo+PiA+VGhhdCBtYXkgcmVxdWlyZSBhIGxpdHRsZSByZS13b3JkaW5n LCBiZWNhdXNlIEkgdGhpbmsgdGhlIHRleHQgbm93IHNheXMNCj4+ID50aGF0IGVhY2ggZmluZ2Vy cHJpbnQgdGhhdCB3YXMgdXNlZCB0byBjcmVhdGUgdGhlIGFzc2VydGlvbiBtdXN0DQo+PmFsd2F5 cyBiZQ0KPj4gPmluY2x1ZGVkIGluIG9mZmVycyBhbmQgYW5zd2Vycy4NCj4+ID4NCj4+ID4+SWYg YSBuZXcgZmluZ2VycHJpbnQgaXMgYWRkZWQsIHRoYXQncyBPSywgYXMgbG9uZyBhcyB0aGUgYT1p ZGVudGl0eQ0KPj4gPj5wcmV2aW91c2x5IGNvdmVyZWQgdGhhdCB2YWx1ZSwNCj4+ID4NCj4+ID5U aGF0IG1heSBub3QgYmUgdHJ1ZSBpZiBvbmUgZS5nLiwgYWRkcyBhIG5ldyBtLSBzZWN0aW9uIHdp dGggYQ0KPj5maW5nZXJwcmludA0KPj4gPnRoYXQgaGFzIG5vdCBwcmV2aW91c2x5IGJlZW4gdXNl ZC4NCj4+ID4NCj4+ID4+b3IgaXMgYW1lbmRlZCB0byBpbmNsdWRlIHRoZSBuZXcgdmFsdWUuDQo+ PiA+DQo+PiA+SG93IGRvZXMgdGhhdCB3b3JrPw0KPj4gPg0KPj4gPlJlZ2FyZHMsDQo+PiA+DQo+ PiA+Q2hyaXN0ZXINCj4+ID4NCj4+ID4NCj4+ID4NCj4+ID4NCj4+ID4NCj4+ID4NCj4+ID4NCj4+ ID4+T24gTW9uLCBBdWcgMTMsIDIwMTggYXQgNDozMCBQTSBDaHJpc3RlciBIb2xtYmVyZw0KPj4g Pj48Y2hyaXN0ZXIuaG9sbWJlcmdAZXJpY3Nzb24uY29tPiB3cm90ZToNCj4+ID4+Pg0KPj4gPj4+ DQo+PiA+Pj4gSGksDQo+PiA+Pj4NCj4+ID4+PiBPbmUgdGhpbmcgdGhhdCBjYW1lIHRvIG15IG1p bmQgd2hlbiB3b3JraW5nIG9uIHRoZSBTRFAgSWRlbnRpdHkNCj4+ID4+PmF0dHJpYnV0ZSBwdWxs IHJlcXVlc3QuDQo+PiA+Pj4NCj4+ID4+PiBJbiBXZWJSVEMsIGFuZCBpbiB0aGUgZHJhZnQsIHdl IGFzc3VtZSB0aGF0IHRoZSBpZGVudGl0eSBhc3NlcnRpb24NCj4+aXMNCj4+ID4+PmJvdW5kIHRv IHRoZSBmaW5nZXJwcmludHMuDQo+PiA+Pj4NCj4+ID4+PiBXaGF0IGlmIGZpbmdlcnByaW50cyBh cmUgcmVtb3ZlZCwgb3IgYWRkZWQsIGR1cmluZyBhIHNlc3Npb24uIFdpbGwNCj4+dGhhdA0KPj4g Pj4+aW1wYWN0IHRoZSBpZGVudGl0eSBhc3NlcnRpb24/DQo+PiA+Pj4NCj4+ID4+PiBBIGZpbmdl cnByaW50IGNhbiBiZSByZW1vdmVkIGlmIGl0IGlzIG9ubHkgdXNlZCBmb3Igb25lIG0tIHNlY3Rp b24sDQo+PmFuZA0KPj4gPj4+dGhhdCBtLSBzZWN0aW9uIGlzIGRpc2FibGVkLg0KPj4gPj4+DQo+ PiA+Pj4gUmVnYXJkcywNCj4+ID4+Pg0KPj4gPj4+IENocmlzdGVyDQo+PiA+Pj4gX19fX19fX19f X19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX18NCj4+ID4+PiBydGN3ZWIgbWFp bGluZyBsaXN0DQo+PiA+Pj4gcnRjd2ViQGlldGYub3JnDQo+PiA+Pj4gaHR0cHM6Ly93d3cuaWV0 Zi5vcmcvbWFpbG1hbi9saXN0aW5mby9ydGN3ZWINCj4+ID4NCj4+ID5fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19f X19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fXw0KPj4gPnJ0Y3dlYiBtYWlsaW5nIGxpc3QN Cj4+ID5ydGN3ZWJAaWV0Zi5vcmcNCj4+ID5odHRwczovL3d3dy5pZXRmLm9yZy9tYWlsbWFuL2xp c3RpbmZvL3J0Y3dlYg0KPj4NCg0K From nobody Wed Aug 15 00:19:49 2018 Return-Path: X-Original-To: rtcweb@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: rtcweb@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7E6DB130ED8 for ; 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Wed, 15 Aug 2018 00:19:45 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 References: In-Reply-To: From: Martin Thomson Date: Wed, 15 Aug 2018 17:19:34 +1000 Message-ID: To: Christer Holmberg Cc: RTCWeb IETF Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Archived-At: Subject: Re: [rtcweb] Identity assertion: impact by removal or adding of fingerprints? X-BeenThere: rtcweb@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.27 Precedence: list List-Id: Real-Time Communication in WEB-browsers working group list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 15 Aug 2018 07:19:48 -0000 On Wed, Aug 15, 2018 at 5:10 PM Christer Holmberg wrote: > >The assertion can change, it's the identity that results that can't > >change (in WebRTC, and likely many other cases). > > Ok. My understanding was that in WebRTC the PC cannot communicate with th= e > IdP in order to create a new assertion (e.g., when a new fingerprint has > been added), even with the same identity, but I=E2=80=99m glad if I was w= rong :) In Firefox, I don't think that you can change or add fingerprints, so the question is a little hard to answer so simply. However, the IdP is consulted every time a session description (offer or answer) is created. From nobody Wed Aug 22 02:42:26 2018 Return-Path: X-Original-To: rtcweb@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: rtcweb@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4C9D3130E05 for ; Wed, 22 Aug 2018 02:42:25 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -4.311 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-4.311 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-2.3, SPF_PASS=-0.001, T_DKIMWL_WL_HIGH=-0.01] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (1024-bit key) header.d=ericsson.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id BbNRklyp1Cfe for ; Wed, 22 Aug 2018 02:42:23 -0700 (PDT) Received: from sesbmg22.ericsson.net (sesbmg22.ericsson.net [193.180.251.48]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 8E6F3130DEF for ; Wed, 22 Aug 2018 02:42:23 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; d=ericsson.com; s=mailgw201801; c=relaxed/simple; q=dns/txt; i=@ericsson.com; t=1534930941; h=From:Sender:Reply-To:Subject:Date:Message-ID:To:Cc:MIME-Version:Content-Type: Content-Transfer-Encoding:Content-ID:Content-Description:Resent-Date:Resent-From: Resent-Sender:Resent-To:Resent-Cc:Resent-Message-ID:In-Reply-To:References:List-Id: List-Help:List-Unsubscribe:List-Subscribe:List-Post:List-Owner:List-Archive; bh=Br9/5nj6g8tNMqEJmWsDAFLkdvOXUfpGzzxBwpYw8k0=; b=aM4VpSlwtctekqwYlWMbqEZnqIgNb5Y/sN5iZ9xR9tBucNrjYzXUHmwLguizI4dQ KB+aLejMwxq7Vxq3DN0OVw9D58G5iJtfNzhv6ivjNIydsBUV44ujhPj0pbMQjnwG yT6J3/HOw1E56NnbE9M8sjopeGvAp+oI6lWFl9S5YCU=; X-AuditID: c1b4fb30-fe1ff700000055da-0b-5b7d2ffdcccf Received: from ESESSMB502.ericsson.se (Unknown_Domain [153.88.183.120]) by sesbmg22.ericsson.net (Symantec Mail Security) with SMTP id FA.38.21978.DFF2D7B5; Wed, 22 Aug 2018 11:42:21 +0200 (CEST) Received: from [147.214.162.174] (153.88.183.153) by ESESSMB502.ericsson.se (153.88.183.163) with Microsoft SMTP Server (version=TLS1_2, cipher=TLS_ECDHE_RSA_WITH_AES_128_CBC_SHA256_P256) id 15.1.1466.3; Wed, 22 Aug 2018 11:42:21 +0200 To: Sean Turner , RTCWeb IETF References: From: Magnus Westerlund Message-ID: <823f7305-b5d6-dc0d-df58-f5d30f57fa7c@ericsson.com> Date: Wed, 22 Aug 2018 11:42:21 +0200 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 6.1; WOW64; rv:52.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/52.9.1 MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset="windows-1252"; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Language: en-GB X-Originating-IP: [153.88.183.153] X-ClientProxiedBy: ESESBMB504.ericsson.se (153.88.183.171) To ESESSMB502.ericsson.se (153.88.183.163) X-Brightmail-Tracker: H4sIAAAAAAAAA+NgFrrMLMWRmVeSWpSXmKPExsUyM2J7he5f/dpogxW79C3W/mtnt7iyqpHZ gcljyZKfTB4HDzIGMEVx2aSk5mSWpRbp2yVwZczac4Kx4D9Hxcz3c9kaGLeydzFycEgImEic +eDdxcjFISRwlFHi7+yTLBDOR0aJLZ+ns3YxcnIIAxV9ev6MCcQWEbCXuLm7hRWkWUjARuLa gUyQMJuAhcTNH41sIDYvUMnaO3+ZQWwWAVWJ9pc3weKiAjESRye3QNUISpyc+YQFxOYUsJWY cXUmE8hIZqDeB1vLQMLMAvIS29/OYYawxSWavqwEu0ZIQFuioakDzJYQUJK4Pu86C8Qr6RKH HgdPYBSahWTBLIShs5AMnYVk6AJGllWMosWpxUm56UZGeqlFmcnFxfl5enmpJZsYgUF9cMtv gx2ML587HmIU4GBU4uEN5aiNFmJNLCuuzD3EKMHBrCTC+3xzTbQQb0piZVVqUX58UWlOavEh RmkOFiVxXgu/zVFCAumJJanZqakFqUUwWSYOTqkGxsBbV2/yf/q/zFytjUX7y++bgt/6rza9 1F3kGMNYVjvjvatQn6j3lUTVw+GPTs103rc/9uS3tB0i15Z/KDg3wdk9h8VQNvqNV2otwx/H pTktngcmxB8+OM1QyeCjofiq1ls171vdtnxWKg48JbPz7/EqCcaKxr4IvuxA3a5ugaXVLDt2 r7ZfqsRSnJFoqMVcVJwIAKYSf49mAgAA Archived-At: Subject: Re: [rtcweb] WGLC for draft-ietf-rtcweb-sdp X-BeenThere: rtcweb@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.27 Precedence: list List-Id: Real-Time Communication in WEB-browsers working group list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 22 Aug 2018 09:42:25 -0000 Hi, I just wanted to note that as my comments prior to the WGLC has not been addressed. I want to consider them as WGLC comments. I also hope that some more reviews are forthcoming. /Magnus Den 2018-07-26 kl. 20:10, skrev Sean Turner: > All, > > This is the working group last call for the "Annotated Example SDP for WebRTC" draft available at https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-rtcweb-sdp/. Please review the document and send your comments to the list by 2359 UTC on 17 August 2018. > > Thanks - spt > _______________________________________________ > rtcweb mailing list > rtcweb@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/rtcweb -- Magnus Westerlund ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Network Architecture & Protocols, Ericsson Research ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Ericsson AB | Phone +46 10 7148287 Torshamnsgatan 23 | Mobile +46 73 0949079 SE-164 80 Stockholm, Sweden | mailto: magnus.westerlund@ericsson.com ---------------------------------------------------------------------- From nobody Wed Aug 22 10:22:04 2018 Return-Path: X-Original-To: rtcweb@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: rtcweb@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9C893130934 for ; Wed, 22 Aug 2018 10:22:02 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.999 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.999 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=gmail.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 44hmRhuEFIOS for ; Wed, 22 Aug 2018 10:22:00 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail-oi0-x236.google.com (mail-oi0-x236.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:4003:c06::236]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 88F2F128CE4 for ; Wed, 22 Aug 2018 10:22:00 -0700 (PDT) Received: by mail-oi0-x236.google.com with SMTP id s198-v6so4437764oih.11 for ; Wed, 22 Aug 2018 10:22:00 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20161025; h=mime-version:from:date:message-id:subject:to; bh=LwvnjScOH3FfqkjoQMnuhZjbcmyTH+dZSqs7rjKDLIk=; b=PRRLJgFO8EKwrcssGJMjuP1VwLGUTP5bXwzPr6T7EycssXUvJdNzIrQZGmevAjbDmf qAWgrF9QCeUNlujKcM+U9UL65znNjaCwdX786aCsyKAdO83d1ZvId3CvvJcA2fncOHYJ 6vP09idBxd0Q3pVNDIlCZzNy2DEfLRfk6eFlm6aptM4+2Ww93oF8DC23dhQw0yGlnj8K HkTg7ZbBi42/eKsCwuFiIuJn46XT11dnGaezT5hrjdH87var66QiGu05kTQjLJ1yTEZk SukOzqpjugOPXgZqC91F6OsL0kCYeQKNIhvcKfrsD3U+SXL3LYurlS3/6ZEXC+fkTb9U Lpvw== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:from:date:message-id:subject:to; bh=LwvnjScOH3FfqkjoQMnuhZjbcmyTH+dZSqs7rjKDLIk=; b=NT3krCN9oiCJf7u6D/IMa/vrm5r16661eUYos19lsTXVmkwj7dWKIBPsNo8ZmmdAyQ fK1PdBhQgdD/59Hj3iyX1AmMq6sq3BnhAWVQeRVg/2Apc8flFMr4dHwzux5v3WyE83DK kNlG61GOISBL0lkR6sviGj0On4oSJ86tICvN59S4/WLsWpbwk23Xs3krXUbvAyNGCarx Qcbb77Q8WlELasO/ee2cj1G5nD8FyZ1Pu8AdhS7vSziOv3JRGGi9I2nLr2vXtShX32VD ThrtmAFGvFyzciwnTOWU4qKsHdYuCwjqayTc2nyJuM2OUyNqbLrcyYzorf3IpM6WJg5n UyYA== X-Gm-Message-State: APzg51Ajq7Tx0xKzHEZCKsnLcko8qcZI7WKmgAJdM4Drpopkpf0A02VO hWMAXhLPppyLZwS76ue2fGscTLsvjnbdrMiU+CLxQ4/+ X-Google-Smtp-Source: ANB0VdYhWh+Y3i2ccjF7D8G8Dpi+leYbRESBLghwBHYijNOxWWKDHgxjpBAQjAeOIh9AD8R/HAM28WSE1hNjo6cUnFA= X-Received: by 2002:aca:3110:: with SMTP id x16-v6mr5190690oix.126.1534958519456; Wed, 22 Aug 2018 10:21:59 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 2002:a4a:66ca:0:0:0:0:0 with HTTP; Wed, 22 Aug 2018 10:21:29 -0700 (PDT) From: Ted Hardie Date: Wed, 22 Aug 2018 10:21:29 -0700 Message-ID: To: RTCWeb IETF Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="0000000000004c19d30574096109" Archived-At: Subject: [rtcweb] Minutes X-BeenThere: rtcweb@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.27 Precedence: list List-Id: Real-Time Communication in WEB-browsers working group list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 22 Aug 2018 17:22:03 -0000 --0000000000004c19d30574096109 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/minutes-102-rtcweb/ has the minutes based on Jonathan's etherpad notes. Please review and forward corrections to the list. thanks, Ted, Cullen, and Sean. --0000000000004c19d30574096109 Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/minutes-102-rtcweb/ has th= e minutes based on Jonathan's etherpad notes.=C2=A0 Please review and f= orward corrections to the list.

thanks,
=
Ted, Cullen, and Sean.
--0000000000004c19d30574096109-- From nobody Wed Aug 22 10:59:36 2018 Return-Path: X-Original-To: rtcweb@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: rtcweb@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id C2597130DBE; Wed, 22 Aug 2018 10:59:11 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.879 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.879 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, T_SPF_HELO_PERMERROR=0.01, T_SPF_PERMERROR=0.01] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id mx8eKgY6Uw9Q; Wed, 22 Aug 2018 10:59:08 -0700 (PDT) Received: from nostrum.com (raven-v6.nostrum.com [IPv6:2001:470:d:1130::1]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 338B1130E01; Wed, 22 Aug 2018 10:59:08 -0700 (PDT) Received: from Svantevit.roach.at (99-152-146-228.lightspeed.dllstx.sbcglobal.net [99.152.146.228]) (authenticated bits=0) by nostrum.com (8.15.2/8.15.2) with ESMTPSA id w7MHwxF3079673 (version=TLSv1.2 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 bits=128 verify=NO); Wed, 22 Aug 2018 12:59:01 -0500 (CDT) (envelope-from adam@nostrum.com) X-Authentication-Warning: raven.nostrum.com: Host 99-152-146-228.lightspeed.dllstx.sbcglobal.net [99.152.146.228] claimed to be Svantevit.roach.at From: Adam Roach To: Applications and Real-Time Area Discussion Cc: "rtcweb@ietf.org" , "mmusic@ietf.org" , "ice@ietf.org" , "clue@ietf.org" Reply-To: Applications and Real-Time Area Discussion Message-ID: <15d3b114-5c04-61c4-8a62-61d8a414143d@nostrum.com> Date: Wed, 22 Aug 2018 12:58:50 -0500 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Macintosh; Intel Mac OS X 10.13; rv:60.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/60.0 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="------------25F6808114B810D3242F1D07" Content-Language: en-US Archived-At: Subject: [rtcweb] ICE, ICE-bis, and Cluster 238 X-BeenThere: rtcweb@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.27 Precedence: list List-Id: Real-Time Communication in WEB-browsers working group list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 22 Aug 2018 17:59:12 -0000 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --------------25F6808114B810D3242F1D07 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Members of the ART community interested in real-time communications: Cluster 238 [1] is a set of inter-related documents dealing with real-time communications. The bulk of these documents relate to WebRTC, either directly or indirectly. They also form the underpinnings of CLUE. As of now, there are 34 documents in the cluster that are not yet published, with 25 of these already in the RFC Editor's queue. The dependency graph among these documents is such that the bulk of them can be published as soon as a specific six of them are handed off to the RFC editor, and we expect this to happen in the upcoming few months. One long-running complication for this cluster of documents is that each of the documents were developed over the course of seven years, in concert with implementations, while the ICE protocol itself was undergoing significant revision. As a consequence, some documents rely (directly or indirectly) on the older ICE specification (RFC 5245), while some rely on the newer one (RFC 8445). In some cases, documents refer directly to the old version and transitively to the new version. It is noteworthy that RFC 8445 obsoletes RFC 5245; and that the mechanism described in RFC 8445 has some  changes that break backwards compatibility with the mechanism defined in RFC 5245 (with such behavioral changes controlled by an SDP attribute, allowing clients to transition from one to the other). Most notably, draft-ietf-rtcweb-jsep (which is the core WebRTC protocol in the IETF) refers to directly to RFC 5245, while relying on the behavior defined in draft-ietf-ice-trickle; draft-ietf-ice-trickle, in turn, is based on the newer RFC 8445 handling. JSEP's reference to RFC 5245 is a practical consideration that acknowledges that current deployments of WebRTC implement the older version of ICE. At the same time, these deployed implementations use a somewhat older version of draft-ietf-ice-trickle in concert with the older ICE implementation. In order to get Cluster 238 published, we need to find some way to rationalize its references to ICE. At a basic level, the ART Area Directors do not believe that it makes sense to publish new documents that refer to an already obsoleted RFC. At the same time, we recognize that there is value in our specifications being informed by running code. For WebRTC, the complexity of the system has led us to a point that we must choose between these principles. Our proposal is to choose the first, while acknowledging the second. This would result in a request to the RFC editor to update all references to RFC 5245 in the Cluster 238 documents to instead point to RFC 8445. Documents not yet in the RFC editor queue would be updated prior to IESG review. We would further request that the RFC editor add the following text to draft-ietf-rtcweb-overview and draft-ietf-rtcweb-jsep: > While this specification formally relies on [RFC8445], at the time of > its publication, the majority of WebRTC implementations support the > version of ICE described in [RFC5245], and use a pre-standard version > of the trickle ice mechanism described in [RFCXXXX]. The use of the > "ice2" attribute defined in [RFC8445] can be used to detect the > version in use by a remote endpoint and to provide a smooth transition > from the older specification to the newer one. RFC 8445 would be a normative reference for both documents, while RFC 5245 would be informative. There is one more minor complication, in that draft-ietf-mmusic-sdp-mux-attributes (which currently points to RFC 5245) is intended to be an exhaustive list of the SDP attributes defined in the documents it lists, and RFC 8445 adds a new "ice2" attribute that was not present in RFC 5245. For this reason, we would also ask the RFC Editor to add a new row to the table in draft-ietf-mmusic-sdp-mux-attributes section 5.12, as follows: > +-------------------+---------------------------+-------+-----------+ > | Name | Notes | Level | Mux | > | | | | Category | > +-------------------+---------------------------+-------+-----------+ > | ice2 | Not Impacted | S | NORMAL | > | | | | | > +-------------------+---------------------------+-------+-----------+ For clarity, the affected documents are as follows. The following documents would be updated to reference RFC 8445 prior to IESG evaluation: * draft-ietf-clue-datachannel * draft-ietf-clue-signaling * draft-ietf-rtcweb-security * draft-ietf-rtcweb-security-arch The following documents would be updated to reference RFC 8445 by the RFC Editor: * draft-ietf-mmusic-mux-exclusive * draft-ietf-mmusic-sctp-sdp * draft-ietf-rtcweb-alpn * draft-ietf-rtcweb-data-channel * draft-ietf-rtcweb-rtp-usage The following documents would be updated to reference RFC 8445 and have the text proposed above added to them: * draft-ietf-rtcweb-jsep * draft-ietf-rtcweb-overview The following document would be updated to reference RFC 8445 by the RFC Editor, and include a new row for "ice2" in its Section 5.12, as described above: * draft-ietf-mmusic-sdp-mux-attributes This message is cross-posted to the affected working groups. Because the issue at hand has impact across several different groups, we ask that all follow-up discussion take place on . Thank you. /Adam on behalf of the ART Area Directors ____ [1] https://www.rfc-editor.org/cluster_info.php?cid=C238 --------------25F6808114B810D3242F1D07 Content-Type: text/html; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Members of the ART community interested in real-time communications:

Cluster 238 [1] is a set of inter-related documents dealing with real-time communications. The bulk of these documents relate to WebRTC, either directly or indirectly. They also form the underpinnings of CLUE. As of now, there are 34 documents in the cluster that are not yet published, with 25 of these already in the RFC Editor's queue. The dependency graph among these documents is such that the bulk of them can be published as soon as a specific six of them are handed off to the RFC editor, and we expect this to happen in the upcoming few months.

One long-running complication for this cluster of documents is that each of the documents were developed over the course of seven years, in concert with implementations, while the ICE protocol itself was undergoing significant revision. As a consequence, some documents rely (directly or indirectly) on the older ICE specification (RFC 5245), while some rely on the newer one (RFC 8445). In some cases, documents refer directly to the old version and transitively to the new version.

It is noteworthy that RFC 8445 obsoletes RFC 5245; and that the mechanism described in RFC 8445 has some  changes that break backwards compatibility with the mechanism defined in RFC 5245 (with such behavioral changes controlled by an SDP attribute, allowing clients to transition from one to the other).

Most notably, draft-ietf-rtcweb-jsep (which is the core WebRTC protocol in the IETF) refers to directly to RFC 5245, while relying on the behavior defined in draft-ietf-ice-trickle; draft-ietf-ice-trickle, in turn, is based on the newer RFC 8445 handling. JSEP's reference to RFC 5245 is a practical consideration that acknowledges that current deployments of WebRTC implement the older version of ICE. At the same time, these deployed implementations use a somewhat older version of draft-ietf-ice-trickle in concert with the older ICE implementation.

In order to get Cluster 238 published, we need to find some way to rationalize its references to ICE. At a basic level, the ART Area Directors do not believe that it makes sense to publish new documents that refer to an already obsoleted RFC. At the same time, we recognize that there is value in our specifications being informed by running code. For WebRTC, the complexity of the system has led us to a point that we must choose between these principles. Our proposal is to choose the first, while acknowledging the second.

This would result in a request to the RFC editor to update all references to RFC 5245 in the Cluster 238 documents to instead point to RFC 8445. Documents not yet in the RFC editor queue would be updated prior to IESG review. We would further request that the RFC editor add the following text to draft-ietf-rtcweb-overview and draft-ietf-rtcweb-jsep:

While this specification formally relies on [RFC8445], at the time of its publication, the majority of WebRTC implementations support the version of ICE described in [RFC5245], and use a pre-standard version of the trickle ice mechanism described in [RFCXXXX]. The use of the "ice2" attribute defined in [RFC8445] can be used to detect the version in use by a remote endpoint and to provide a smooth transition from the older specification to the newer one.
RFC 8445 would be a normative reference for both documents, while RFC 5245 would be informative.

There is one more minor complication, in that draft-ietf-mmusic-sdp-mux-attributes (which currently points to RFC 5245) is intended to be an exhaustive list of the SDP attributes defined in the documents it lists, and RFC 8445 adds a new "ice2" attribute that was not present in RFC 5245. For this reason, we would also ask the RFC Editor to add a new row to the table in draft-ietf-mmusic-sdp-mux-attributes section 5.12, as follows:

   +-------------------+---------------------------+-------+-----------+
   | Name              | Notes                     | Level | Mux       |
   |                   |                           |       | Category  |
   +-------------------+---------------------------+-------+-----------+
   | ice2              | Not Impacted              | S     | NORMAL    |
   |                   |                           |       |           |
   +-------------------+---------------------------+-------+-----------+

For clarity, the affected documents are as follows.

The following documents would be updated to reference RFC 8445 prior to IESG evaluation:

  • draft-ietf-clue-datachannel
  • draft-ietf-clue-signaling
  • draft-ietf-rtcweb-security
  • draft-ietf-rtcweb-security-arch


The following documents would be updated to reference RFC 8445 by the RFC Editor:

  • draft-ietf-mmusic-mux-exclusive
  • draft-ietf-mmusic-sctp-sdp
  • draft-ietf-rtcweb-alpn
  • draft-ietf-rtcweb-data-channel
  • draft-ietf-rtcweb-rtp-usage


The following documents would be updated to reference RFC 8445 and have the text proposed above added to them:

  • draft-ietf-rtcweb-jsep
  • draft-ietf-rtcweb-overview


The following document would be updated to reference RFC 8445 by the RFC Editor, and include a new row for "ice2" in its Section 5.12, as described above:

  • draft-ietf-mmusic-sdp-mux-attributes


This message is cross-posted to the affected working groups. Because the issue at hand has impact across several different groups, we ask that all follow-up discussion take place on <art@ietf.org>. Thank you.

/Adam on behalf of the ART Area Directors

____
[1] https://www.rfc-editor.org/cluster_info.php?cid=C238

--------------25F6808114B810D3242F1D07-- From nobody Wed Aug 22 11:09:26 2018 Return-Path: X-Original-To: rtcweb@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: rtcweb@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id B4058130E20 for ; Wed, 22 Aug 2018 11:09:13 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -4.3 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-4.3 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-2.3, SPF_PASS=-0.001, T_DKIMWL_WL_HIGH=-0.01, T_KAM_HTML_FONT_INVALID=0.01] autolearn=unavailable autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (1024-bit key) header.d=ericsson.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 1ZAtPiwvZ5er for ; Wed, 22 Aug 2018 11:09:11 -0700 (PDT) Received: from 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XCH-RCD-019.cisco.com (xch-rcd-019.cisco.com [173.37.102.29]) by rcdn-core-11.cisco.com (8.15.2/8.15.2) with ESMTPS id w7MKrEEO008407 (version=TLSv1.2 cipher=AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Wed, 22 Aug 2018 20:53:14 GMT Received: from xch-aln-018.cisco.com (173.36.7.28) by XCH-RCD-019.cisco.com (173.37.102.29) with Microsoft SMTP Server (TLS) id 15.0.1320.4; Wed, 22 Aug 2018 15:53:13 -0500 Received: from xch-aln-018.cisco.com ([173.36.7.28]) by XCH-ALN-018.cisco.com ([173.36.7.28]) with mapi id 15.00.1320.000; Wed, 22 Aug 2018 15:53:13 -0500 From: "Charles Eckel (eckelcu)" To: Applications and Real-Time Area Discussion CC: "clue@ietf.org" , "rtcweb@ietf.org" , "mmusic@ietf.org" , "ice@ietf.org" , "bfcpbis@ietf.org" Thread-Topic: [art] ICE, ICE-bis, and Cluster 238 Thread-Index: AQHUOkHp2qtJc/guzkqO2Y1jG5WZJaTMHj2A Date: Wed, 22 Aug 2018 20:53:13 +0000 Message-ID: <1362A84F-A635-4E8A-8741-B42336940180@cisco.com> References: <15d3b114-5c04-61c4-8a62-61d8a414143d@nostrum.com> 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with cipher AECDH-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 72244127B92; Sat, 25 Aug 2018 09:42:45 -0700 (PDT) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by mork.alvestrand.no (Postfix) with ESMTP id EF7E97C0A0F; Sat, 25 Aug 2018 18:42:42 +0200 (CEST) X-Virus-Scanned: Debian amavisd-new at alvestrand.no Received: from mork.alvestrand.no ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (mork.alvestrand.no [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id jlg6HuqcfXSM; Sat, 25 Aug 2018 18:42:40 +0200 (CEST) Received: from [IPv6:2a02:8084:d6c1:c900:f5a2:5c42:d981:8721] (unknown [IPv6:2a02:8084:d6c1:c900:f5a2:5c42:d981:8721]) by mork.alvestrand.no (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 171147C09FC; Sat, 25 Aug 2018 18:42:39 +0200 (CEST) To: Applications and Real-Time Area Discussion Cc: "clue@ietf.org" , "rtcweb@ietf.org" , "mmusic@ietf.org" , "ice@ietf.org" References: <15d3b114-5c04-61c4-8a62-61d8a414143d@nostrum.com> From: Harald Alvestrand Openpgp: 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hl01vL0V5bkbInZq2sB505Hn1DSc4NoP2WHlwe8Bm8vVG5oyfyPw9ReS9WLVY9w7fK4EKOgk VnOsIQuE0WIPT0Ak+hJ0UigOduuCX7s7NIVaOgWQe1q4Xytgj1RHjg9qlA6eQiTUrAx7Mu7s eliWCFuWsQXoaktVEDjoWVbP9dgozanL5kwWh/sJNtHVQbgu3IG4w8D3QvvOE83+jAdzgOzv pqHJkrqlWu+R9ZqBucZLqjQvQZk= Message-ID: Date: Sat, 25 Aug 2018 18:42:37 +0200 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; Linux x86_64; rv:52.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/52.6.0 MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: <15d3b114-5c04-61c4-8a62-61d8a414143d@nostrum.com> Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="------------9E7BF54127F14ED93C7AED73" Content-Language: en-GB Archived-At: Subject: Re: [rtcweb] [clue] ICE, ICE-bis, and Cluster 238 X-BeenThere: rtcweb@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.27 Precedence: list List-Id: Real-Time Communication in WEB-browsers working group list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sat, 25 Aug 2018 16:42:50 -0000 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --------------9E7BF54127F14ED93C7AED73 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Speaking as editor of -overview and -transport, I support this approach. (-transport already references ice-bis, now 8445). On 08/22/2018 07:58 PM, Adam Roach wrote: > Members of the ART community interested in real-time communications: > > Cluster 238 [1] is a set of inter-related documents dealing with > real-time communications. The bulk of these documents relate to > WebRTC, either directly or indirectly. They also form the > underpinnings of CLUE. As of now, there are 34 documents in the > cluster that are not yet published, with 25 of these already in the > RFC Editor's queue. The dependency graph among these documents is such > that the bulk of them can be published as soon as a specific six of > them are handed off to the RFC editor, and we expect this to happen in > the upcoming few months. > > One long-running complication for this cluster of documents is that > each of the documents were developed over the course of seven years, > in concert with implementations, while the ICE protocol itself was > undergoing significant revision. As a consequence, some documents rely > (directly or indirectly) on the older ICE specification (RFC 5245), > while some rely on the newer one (RFC 8445). In some cases, documents > refer directly to the old version and transitively to the new version. > > It is noteworthy that RFC 8445 obsoletes RFC 5245; and that the > mechanism described in RFC 8445 has some  changes that break backwards > compatibility with the mechanism defined in RFC 5245 (with such > behavioral changes controlled by an SDP attribute, allowing clients to > transition from one to the other). > > Most notably, draft-ietf-rtcweb-jsep (which is the core WebRTC > protocol in the IETF) refers to directly to RFC 5245, while relying on > the behavior defined in draft-ietf-ice-trickle; > draft-ietf-ice-trickle, in turn, is based on the newer RFC 8445 > handling. JSEP's reference to RFC 5245 is a practical consideration > that acknowledges that current deployments of WebRTC implement the > older version of ICE. At the same time, these deployed implementations > use a somewhat older version of draft-ietf-ice-trickle in concert with > the older ICE implementation. > > In order to get Cluster 238 published, we need to find some way to > rationalize its references to ICE. At a basic level, the ART Area > Directors do not believe that it makes sense to publish new documents > that refer to an already obsoleted RFC. At the same time, we recognize > that there is value in our specifications being informed by running > code. For WebRTC, the complexity of the system has led us to a point > that we must choose between these principles. Our proposal is to > choose the first, while acknowledging the second. > > This would result in a request to the RFC editor to update all > references to RFC 5245 in the Cluster 238 documents to instead point > to RFC 8445. Documents not yet in the RFC editor queue would be > updated prior to IESG review. We would further request that the RFC > editor add the following text to draft-ietf-rtcweb-overview and > draft-ietf-rtcweb-jsep: > >> While this specification formally relies on [RFC8445], at the time of >> its publication, the majority of WebRTC implementations support the >> version of ICE described in [RFC5245], and use a pre-standard version >> of the trickle ice mechanism described in [RFCXXXX]. The use of the >> "ice2" attribute defined in [RFC8445] can be used to detect the >> version in use by a remote endpoint and to provide a smooth >> transition from the older specification to the newer one. > RFC 8445 would be a normative reference for both documents, while RFC > 5245 would be informative. > > There is one more minor complication, in that > draft-ietf-mmusic-sdp-mux-attributes (which currently points to RFC > 5245) is intended to be an exhaustive list of the SDP attributes > defined in the documents it lists, and RFC 8445 adds a new "ice2" > attribute that was not present in RFC 5245. For this reason, we would > also ask the RFC Editor to add a new row to the table in > draft-ietf-mmusic-sdp-mux-attributes section 5.12, as follows: > >> +-------------------+---------------------------+-------+-----------+ >> | Name | Notes | Level | Mux | >> | | | | Category | >> +-------------------+---------------------------+-------+-----------+ >> | ice2 | Not Impacted | S | NORMAL | >> | | | | | >> +-------------------+---------------------------+-------+-----------+ > > For clarity, the affected documents are as follows. > > The following documents would be updated to reference RFC 8445 prior > to IESG evaluation: > > * draft-ietf-clue-datachannel > * draft-ietf-clue-signaling > * draft-ietf-rtcweb-security > * draft-ietf-rtcweb-security-arch > > > The following documents would be updated to reference RFC 8445 by the > RFC Editor: > > * draft-ietf-mmusic-mux-exclusive > * draft-ietf-mmusic-sctp-sdp > * draft-ietf-rtcweb-alpn > * draft-ietf-rtcweb-data-channel > * draft-ietf-rtcweb-rtp-usage > > > The following documents would be updated to reference RFC 8445 and > have the text proposed above added to them: > > * draft-ietf-rtcweb-jsep > * draft-ietf-rtcweb-overview > > > The following document would be updated to reference RFC 8445 by the > RFC Editor, and include a new row for "ice2" in its Section 5.12, as > described above: > > * draft-ietf-mmusic-sdp-mux-attributes > > > This message is cross-posted to the affected working groups. Because > the issue at hand has impact across several different groups, we ask > that all follow-up discussion take place on . Thank you. > > /Adam on behalf of the ART Area Directors > > ____ > [1] https://www.rfc-editor.org/cluster_info.php?cid=C238 > > > > _______________________________________________ > clue mailing list > clue@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/clue -- Surveillance is pervasive. Go Dark. --------------9E7BF54127F14ED93C7AED73 Content-Type: text/html; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit
Speaking as editor of -overview and -transport, I support this approach.

(-transport already references ice-bis, now 8445).

On 08/22/2018 07:58 PM, Adam Roach wrote:
Members of the ART community interested in real-time communications:

Cluster 238 [1] is a set of inter-related documents dealing with real-time communications. The bulk of these documents relate to WebRTC, either directly or indirectly. They also form the underpinnings of CLUE. As of now, there are 34 documents in the cluster that are not yet published, with 25 of these already in the RFC Editor's queue. The dependency graph among these documents is such that the bulk of them can be published as soon as a specific six of them are handed off to the RFC editor, and we expect this to happen in the upcoming few months.

One long-running complication for this cluster of documents is that each of the documents were developed over the course of seven years, in concert with implementations, while the ICE protocol itself was undergoing significant revision. As a consequence, some documents rely (directly or indirectly) on the older ICE specification (RFC 5245), while some rely on the newer one (RFC 8445). In some cases, documents refer directly to the old version and transitively to the new version.

It is noteworthy that RFC 8445 obsoletes RFC 5245; and that the mechanism described in RFC 8445 has some  changes that break backwards compatibility with the mechanism defined in RFC 5245 (with such behavioral changes controlled by an SDP attribute, allowing clients to transition from one to the other).

Most notably, draft-ietf-rtcweb-jsep (which is the core WebRTC protocol in the IETF) refers to directly to RFC 5245, while relying on the behavior defined in draft-ietf-ice-trickle; draft-ietf-ice-trickle, in turn, is based on the newer RFC 8445 handling. JSEP's reference to RFC 5245 is a practical consideration that acknowledges that current deployments of WebRTC implement the older version of ICE. At the same time, these deployed implementations use a somewhat older version of draft-ietf-ice-trickle in concert with the older ICE implementation.

In order to get Cluster 238 published, we need to find some way to rationalize its references to ICE. At a basic level, the ART Area Directors do not believe that it makes sense to publish new documents that refer to an already obsoleted RFC. At the same time, we recognize that there is value in our specifications being informed by running code. For WebRTC, the complexity of the system has led us to a point that we must choose between these principles. Our proposal is to choose the first, while acknowledging the second.

This would result in a request to the RFC editor to update all references to RFC 5245 in the Cluster 238 documents to instead point to RFC 8445. Documents not yet in the RFC editor queue would be updated prior to IESG review. We would further request that the RFC editor add the following text to draft-ietf-rtcweb-overview and draft-ietf-rtcweb-jsep:

While this specification formally relies on [RFC8445], at the time of its publication, the majority of WebRTC implementations support the version of ICE described in [RFC5245], and use a pre-standard version of the trickle ice mechanism described in [RFCXXXX]. The use of the "ice2" attribute defined in [RFC8445] can be used to detect the version in use by a remote endpoint and to provide a smooth transition from the older specification to the newer one.
RFC 8445 would be a normative reference for both documents, while RFC 5245 would be informative.

There is one more minor complication, in that draft-ietf-mmusic-sdp-mux-attributes (which currently points to RFC 5245) is intended to be an exhaustive list of the SDP attributes defined in the documents it lists, and RFC 8445 adds a new "ice2" attribute that was not present in RFC 5245. For this reason, we would also ask the RFC Editor to add a new row to the table in draft-ietf-mmusic-sdp-mux-attributes section 5.12, as follows:

   +-------------------+---------------------------+-------+-----------+
   | Name              | Notes                     | Level | Mux       |
   |                   |                           |       | Category  |
   +-------------------+---------------------------+-------+-----------+
   | ice2              | Not Impacted              | S     | NORMAL    |
   |                   |                           |       |           |
   +-------------------+---------------------------+-------+-----------+

For clarity, the affected documents are as follows.

The following documents would be updated to reference RFC 8445 prior to IESG evaluation:

  • draft-ietf-clue-datachannel
  • draft-ietf-clue-signaling
  • draft-ietf-rtcweb-security
  • draft-ietf-rtcweb-security-arch


The following documents would be updated to reference RFC 8445 by the RFC Editor:

  • draft-ietf-mmusic-mux-exclusive
  • draft-ietf-mmusic-sctp-sdp
  • draft-ietf-rtcweb-alpn
  • draft-ietf-rtcweb-data-channel
  • draft-ietf-rtcweb-rtp-usage


The following documents would be updated to reference RFC 8445 and have the text proposed above added to them:

  • draft-ietf-rtcweb-jsep
  • draft-ietf-rtcweb-overview


The following document would be updated to reference RFC 8445 by the RFC Editor, and include a new row for "ice2" in its Section 5.12, as described above:

  • draft-ietf-mmusic-sdp-mux-attributes


This message is cross-posted to the affected working groups. Because the issue at hand has impact across several different groups, we ask that all follow-up discussion take place on <art@ietf.org>. Thank you.

/Adam on behalf of the ART Area Directors

____
[1] https://www.rfc-editor.org/cluster_info.php?cid=C238



_______________________________________________
clue mailing list
clue@ietf.org
https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/clue



-- 
Surveillance is pervasive. Go Dark.
--------------9E7BF54127F14ED93C7AED73-- From nobody Wed Aug 29 11:13:12 2018 Return-Path: X-Original-To: rtcweb@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: rtcweb@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0D6B1130E06; Wed, 29 Aug 2018 11:12:42 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.879 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.879 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, T_SPF_HELO_PERMERROR=0.01, T_SPF_PERMERROR=0.01] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id CXkf9bv-QaSC; Wed, 29 Aug 2018 11:12:39 -0700 (PDT) Received: from nostrum.com (raven-v6.nostrum.com [IPv6:2001:470:d:1130::1]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 4A3E6130DFE; Wed, 29 Aug 2018 11:12:39 -0700 (PDT) Received: from Svantevit.roach.at (99-152-146-228.lightspeed.dllstx.sbcglobal.net [99.152.146.228]) (authenticated bits=0) by nostrum.com (8.15.2/8.15.2) with ESMTPSA id w7TICaAY027071 (version=TLSv1.2 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 bits=128 verify=NO); Wed, 29 Aug 2018 13:12:37 -0500 (CDT) (envelope-from adam@nostrum.com) X-Authentication-Warning: raven.nostrum.com: Host 99-152-146-228.lightspeed.dllstx.sbcglobal.net [99.152.146.228] claimed to be Svantevit.roach.at From: Adam Roach To: Applications and Real-Time Area Discussion Cc: "clue@ietf.org" , "rtcweb@ietf.org" , "mmusic@ietf.org" , "ice@ietf.org" Reply-To: Applications and Real-Time Area Discussion References: <15d3b114-5c04-61c4-8a62-61d8a414143d@nostrum.com> Message-ID: <0e4f9505-5d96-f0c1-afbc-f493d1097b65@nostrum.com> Date: Wed, 29 Aug 2018 13:12:31 -0500 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Macintosh; Intel Mac OS X 10.13; rv:60.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/60.0 MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: <15d3b114-5c04-61c4-8a62-61d8a414143d@nostrum.com> Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="------------84E9B8C7F63D2A840F7E6A6E" Content-Language: en-US Archived-At: Subject: Re: [rtcweb] ICE, ICE-bis, and Cluster 238 X-BeenThere: rtcweb@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.27 Precedence: list List-Id: Real-Time Communication in WEB-browsers working group list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 29 Aug 2018 18:12:42 -0000 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --------------84E9B8C7F63D2A840F7E6A6E Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit It's been a week; so far there have been no objections to this plan, and several messages in support. I plan to consult with the other ART ADs to evaluate consensus on this proposal next week, and take appropriate action. If you have thoughts to share, please send them to the ART mailing list before September 5th. Thanks! /a On 8/22/18 12:58 PM, Adam Roach wrote: > Members of the ART community interested in real-time communications: > > Cluster 238 [1] is a set of inter-related documents dealing with > real-time communications. The bulk of these documents relate to > WebRTC, either directly or indirectly. They also form the > underpinnings of CLUE. As of now, there are 34 documents in the > cluster that are not yet published, with 25 of these already in the > RFC Editor's queue. The dependency graph among these documents is such > that the bulk of them can be published as soon as a specific six of > them are handed off to the RFC editor, and we expect this to happen in > the upcoming few months. > > One long-running complication for this cluster of documents is that > each of the documents were developed over the course of seven years, > in concert with implementations, while the ICE protocol itself was > undergoing significant revision. As a consequence, some documents rely > (directly or indirectly) on the older ICE specification (RFC 5245), > while some rely on the newer one (RFC 8445). In some cases, documents > refer directly to the old version and transitively to the new version. > > It is noteworthy that RFC 8445 obsoletes RFC 5245; and that the > mechanism described in RFC 8445 has some  changes that break backwards > compatibility with the mechanism defined in RFC 5245 (with such > behavioral changes controlled by an SDP attribute, allowing clients to > transition from one to the other). > > Most notably, draft-ietf-rtcweb-jsep (which is the core WebRTC > protocol in the IETF) refers to directly to RFC 5245, while relying on > the behavior defined in draft-ietf-ice-trickle; > draft-ietf-ice-trickle, in turn, is based on the newer RFC 8445 > handling. JSEP's reference to RFC 5245 is a practical consideration > that acknowledges that current deployments of WebRTC implement the > older version of ICE. At the same time, these deployed implementations > use a somewhat older version of draft-ietf-ice-trickle in concert with > the older ICE implementation. > > In order to get Cluster 238 published, we need to find some way to > rationalize its references to ICE. At a basic level, the ART Area > Directors do not believe that it makes sense to publish new documents > that refer to an already obsoleted RFC. At the same time, we recognize > that there is value in our specifications being informed by running > code. For WebRTC, the complexity of the system has led us to a point > that we must choose between these principles. Our proposal is to > choose the first, while acknowledging the second. > > This would result in a request to the RFC editor to update all > references to RFC 5245 in the Cluster 238 documents to instead point > to RFC 8445. Documents not yet in the RFC editor queue would be > updated prior to IESG review. We would further request that the RFC > editor add the following text to draft-ietf-rtcweb-overview and > draft-ietf-rtcweb-jsep: > >> While this specification formally relies on [RFC8445], at the time of >> its publication, the majority of WebRTC implementations support the >> version of ICE described in [RFC5245], and use a pre-standard version >> of the trickle ice mechanism described in [RFCXXXX]. The use of the >> "ice2" attribute defined in [RFC8445] can be used to detect the >> version in use by a remote endpoint and to provide a smooth >> transition from the older specification to the newer one. > RFC 8445 would be a normative reference for both documents, while RFC > 5245 would be informative. > > There is one more minor complication, in that > draft-ietf-mmusic-sdp-mux-attributes (which currently points to RFC > 5245) is intended to be an exhaustive list of the SDP attributes > defined in the documents it lists, and RFC 8445 adds a new "ice2" > attribute that was not present in RFC 5245. For this reason, we would > also ask the RFC Editor to add a new row to the table in > draft-ietf-mmusic-sdp-mux-attributes section 5.12, as follows: > >> +-------------------+---------------------------+-------+-----------+ >> | Name | Notes | Level | Mux | >> | | | | Category | >> +-------------------+---------------------------+-------+-----------+ >> | ice2 | Not Impacted | S | NORMAL | >> | | | | | >> +-------------------+---------------------------+-------+-----------+ > > For clarity, the affected documents are as follows. > > The following documents would be updated to reference RFC 8445 prior > to IESG evaluation: > > * draft-ietf-clue-datachannel > * draft-ietf-clue-signaling > * draft-ietf-rtcweb-security > * draft-ietf-rtcweb-security-arch > > > The following documents would be updated to reference RFC 8445 by the > RFC Editor: > > * draft-ietf-mmusic-mux-exclusive > * draft-ietf-mmusic-sctp-sdp > * draft-ietf-rtcweb-alpn > * draft-ietf-rtcweb-data-channel > * draft-ietf-rtcweb-rtp-usage > > > The following documents would be updated to reference RFC 8445 and > have the text proposed above added to them: > > * draft-ietf-rtcweb-jsep > * draft-ietf-rtcweb-overview > > > The following document would be updated to reference RFC 8445 by the > RFC Editor, and include a new row for "ice2" in its Section 5.12, as > described above: > > * draft-ietf-mmusic-sdp-mux-attributes > > > This message is cross-posted to the affected working groups. Because > the issue at hand has impact across several different groups, we ask > that all follow-up discussion take place on . Thank you. > > /Adam on behalf of the ART Area Directors > > ____ > [1] https://www.rfc-editor.org/cluster_info.php?cid=C238 > --------------84E9B8C7F63D2A840F7E6A6E Content-Type: text/html; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit
It's been a week; so far there have been no objections to this plan, and several messages in support. I plan to consult with the other ART ADs to evaluate consensus on this proposal next week, and take appropriate action. If you have thoughts to share, please send them to the ART mailing list before September 5th.

Thanks!

/a

On 8/22/18 12:58 PM, Adam Roach wrote:
Members of the ART community interested in real-time communications:

Cluster 238 [1] is a set of inter-related documents dealing with real-time communications. The bulk of these documents relate to WebRTC, either directly or indirectly. They also form the underpinnings of CLUE. As of now, there are 34 documents in the cluster that are not yet published, with 25 of these already in the RFC Editor's queue. The dependency graph among these documents is such that the bulk of them can be published as soon as a specific six of them are handed off to the RFC editor, and we expect this to happen in the upcoming few months.

One long-running complication for this cluster of documents is that each of the documents were developed over the course of seven years, in concert with implementations, while the ICE protocol itself was undergoing significant revision. As a consequence, some documents rely (directly or indirectly) on the older ICE specification (RFC 5245), while some rely on the newer one (RFC 8445). In some cases, documents refer directly to the old version and transitively to the new version.

It is noteworthy that RFC 8445 obsoletes RFC 5245; and that the mechanism described in RFC 8445 has some  changes that break backwards compatibility with the mechanism defined in RFC 5245 (with such behavioral changes controlled by an SDP attribute, allowing clients to transition from one to the other).

Most notably, draft-ietf-rtcweb-jsep (which is the core WebRTC protocol in the IETF) refers to directly to RFC 5245, while relying on the behavior defined in draft-ietf-ice-trickle; draft-ietf-ice-trickle, in turn, is based on the newer RFC 8445 handling. JSEP's reference to RFC 5245 is a practical consideration that acknowledges that current deployments of WebRTC implement the older version of ICE. At the same time, these deployed implementations use a somewhat older version of draft-ietf-ice-trickle in concert with the older ICE implementation.

In order to get Cluster 238 published, we need to find some way to rationalize its references to ICE. At a basic level, the ART Area Directors do not believe that it makes sense to publish new documents that refer to an already obsoleted RFC. At the same time, we recognize that there is value in our specifications being informed by running code. For WebRTC, the complexity of the system has led us to a point that we must choose between these principles. Our proposal is to choose the first, while acknowledging the second.

This would result in a request to the RFC editor to update all references to RFC 5245 in the Cluster 238 documents to instead point to RFC 8445. Documents not yet in the RFC editor queue would be updated prior to IESG review. We would further request that the RFC editor add the following text to draft-ietf-rtcweb-overview and draft-ietf-rtcweb-jsep:

While this specification formally relies on [RFC8445], at the time of its publication, the majority of WebRTC implementations support the version of ICE described in [RFC5245], and use a pre-standard version of the trickle ice mechanism described in [RFCXXXX]. The use of the "ice2" attribute defined in [RFC8445] can be used to detect the version in use by a remote endpoint and to provide a smooth transition from the older specification to the newer one.
RFC 8445 would be a normative reference for both documents, while RFC 5245 would be informative.

There is one more minor complication, in that draft-ietf-mmusic-sdp-mux-attributes (which currently points to RFC 5245) is intended to be an exhaustive list of the SDP attributes defined in the documents it lists, and RFC 8445 adds a new "ice2" attribute that was not present in RFC 5245. For this reason, we would also ask the RFC Editor to add a new row to the table in draft-ietf-mmusic-sdp-mux-attributes section 5.12, as follows:

   +-------------------+---------------------------+-------+-----------+
   | Name              | Notes                     | Level | Mux       |
   |                   |                           |       | Category  |
   +-------------------+---------------------------+-------+-----------+
   | ice2              | Not Impacted              | S     | NORMAL    |
   |                   |                           |       |           |
   +-------------------+---------------------------+-------+-----------+

For clarity, the affected documents are as follows.

The following documents would be updated to reference RFC 8445 prior to IESG evaluation:

  • draft-ietf-clue-datachannel
  • draft-ietf-clue-signaling
  • draft-ietf-rtcweb-security
  • draft-ietf-rtcweb-security-arch


The following documents would be updated to reference RFC 8445 by the RFC Editor:

  • draft-ietf-mmusic-mux-exclusive
  • draft-ietf-mmusic-sctp-sdp
  • draft-ietf-rtcweb-alpn
  • draft-ietf-rtcweb-data-channel
  • draft-ietf-rtcweb-rtp-usage


The following documents would be updated to reference RFC 8445 and have the text proposed above added to them:

  • draft-ietf-rtcweb-jsep
  • draft-ietf-rtcweb-overview


The following document would be updated to reference RFC 8445 by the RFC Editor, and include a new row for "ice2" in its Section 5.12, as described above:

  • draft-ietf-mmusic-sdp-mux-attributes


This message is cross-posted to the affected working groups. Because the issue at hand has impact across several different groups, we ask that all follow-up discussion take place on <art@ietf.org>. Thank you.

/Adam on behalf of the ART Area Directors

____
[1] https://www.rfc-editor.org/cluster_info.php?cid=C238


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