From hartmans@painless-security.com Fri Jul 5 12:39:09 2013 Return-Path: X-Original-To: rtg-dir@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: rtg-dir@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 148D321F9F33 for ; Fri, 5 Jul 2013 12:39:09 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.044 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.044 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=0.555, BAYES_00=-2.599] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([12.22.58.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id T8KVpzubsJmM for ; Fri, 5 Jul 2013 12:39:03 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail.painless-security.com (mail.painless-security.com [23.30.188.241]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 384F021F9F36 for ; Fri, 5 Jul 2013 12:39:03 -0700 (PDT) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by mail.painless-security.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0185E20127; Fri, 5 Jul 2013 15:34:28 -0400 (EDT) Received: from mail.painless-security.com ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (mail.suchdamage.org [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id q88mtPiHoRPP; Fri, 5 Jul 2013 15:34:26 -0400 (EDT) Received: from carter-zimmerman.suchdamage.org (c-98-216-0-82.hsd1.ma.comcast.net [98.216.0.82]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (Client CN "laptop", Issuer "laptop" (not verified)) by mail.painless-security.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS; Fri, 5 Jul 2013 15:34:26 -0400 (EDT) Received: by carter-zimmerman.suchdamage.org (Postfix, from userid 8042) id F28358082D; Fri, 5 Jul 2013 15:38:19 -0400 (EDT) From: Sam Hartman To: Danny McPherson References: <00d701ce4f4d$3bc9cc80$b35d6580$@olddog.co.uk> <5ef29b4ea5cf9b8d9f56867fda33c63c@tcb.net> Date: Fri, 05 Jul 2013 15:38:19 -0400 In-Reply-To: <5ef29b4ea5cf9b8d9f56867fda33c63c@tcb.net> (Danny McPherson's message of "Tue, 21 May 2013 09:37:19 -0600") Message-ID: User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) Emacs/23.4 (gnu/linux) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Cc: adrian@olddog.co.uk, rtg-dir@ietf.org, draft-ietf-karp-crypto-key-table.all@tools.ietf.org Subject: Re: [RTG-DIR] FW: Routing Area Directorate Review for draft-ietf-karp-crypto-key-table X-BeenThere: rtg-dir@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: Routing Area Directorate List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 05 Jul 2013 19:39:09 -0000 >>>>> "Danny" == Danny McPherson writes: Danny> On 2013-05-21 06:27, Sam Hartman wrote: >> Danny, it sounds like you care a lot more about the time sync >> issue than people who have discussed in in the WG. Would you be >> willing to write some text discussing NTP and providing a way >> forward on your concern here? Danny> The reason I care a lot more is that there's less point in Danny> investing in deployment of these capabilities if we're going Danny> to be overly loose on timing issues, expiry, etc. I think if Danny> I wrote text it would simply state that there needs to be Danny> reasonable synchronization and that implementations should Danny> not assume some considerable skew (e.g., greater than a few Danny> minutes). It's arguably not as bad for p2p sessions but for Danny> system wide functions (e.g., LSA, LSP, etc..) it could be Danny> more problematic in practice. Highlighting and not Danny> marginalizing these dependencies is key. IF you want me to Danny> write something up I can, but it's simply could to be a lot Danny> more prescriptive than what's there today, with an Danny> exclamation point in the deployment considerations section. My reading of the discussion is that there was not consensus within the rtg-dir whether long skews (days etc) should be discouraged. My reading of WG discussion is similar. Absent direction from KARP chairs or routing ADs that my reading is wrong, I don't think we have sufficient consensus to discourage long skews. The KARP chairs have proposed (and I agree) that draft-ietf-karp-ops-model would be a better place to discuss NTP and the desire for time sync. That draft will be entering IETF last call as soon as the changes in 07 are reviewed and accepted by our AD. I'll bring up your concern about time sync in that last call and recommend we cover the issue there. I'm now sitting down to take your original review and the text and address the smaller comments and pull in the admin key name. Thanks again for that catch; I would have been really embarrassed to find that years later. From adrian@olddog.co.uk Sun Jul 28 00:08:09 2013 Return-Path: X-Original-To: rtg-dir@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: rtg-dir@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id C7E0821F99C7; Sun, 28 Jul 2013 00:08:08 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.299 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.299 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=-1.300, BAYES_50=0.001] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([12.22.58.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id yDVNpeJ+P7Qj; Sun, 28 Jul 2013 00:07:55 -0700 (PDT) Received: from asmtp3.iomartmail.com (asmtp3.iomartmail.com [62.128.201.159]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9E6C321F9D5D; Sun, 28 Jul 2013 00:07:54 -0700 (PDT) Received: from asmtp3.iomartmail.com (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by asmtp3.iomartmail.com (8.13.8/8.13.8) with ESMTP id r6S77qof005907; Sun, 28 Jul 2013 08:07:52 +0100 Received: from 950129200 (dhcp-45d9.meeting.ietf.org [130.129.69.217]) (authenticated bits=0) by asmtp3.iomartmail.com (8.13.8/8.13.8) with ESMTP id r6S77pr0005899 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=AES128-SHA bits=128 verify=NO); Sun, 28 Jul 2013 08:07:51 +0100 From: "Adrian Farrel" To: , , Date: Sun, 28 Jul 2013 08:07:50 +0100 Message-ID: <029601ce8b61$2c8734b0$85959e10$@olddog.co.uk> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook 14.0 Thread-Index: Ac6LYSifnAnW/nFYSw+aP2sCgTxw/A== Content-Language: en-gb Subject: [RTG-DIR] Routing ADs Open Office X-BeenThere: rtg-dir@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list Reply-To: adrian@olddog.co.uk List-Id: Routing Area Directorate List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sun, 28 Jul 2013 07:08:09 -0000 Hi, You are all welcome to come and talk to the Routing ADs on Sunday at 2pm to 4pm. We will be in the IESG Office, a room called "Chess" on the second floor (which, in Europe, is of course only the first floor). Come along and talk about your issues with how the WGs are running, your concerns about routing in the Internet, your thoughts about the BoFs, or anything else that is bothering you. Adrian and Stewart