From logan@afrinic.net Fri Jan 4 12:30:32 2013 Return-Path: X-Original-To: saag@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: saag@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id E9B0F21F8425 for ; Fri, 4 Jan 2013 12:30:32 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.598 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.598 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-2.599, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id b-8jICeGLv4e for ; Fri, 4 Jan 2013 12:30:28 -0800 (PST) Received: from mail.jnb.afrinic.net (mail.jnb.afrinic.net [IPv6:2001:42d0:0:410::141]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9B51321F8860 for ; Fri, 4 Jan 2013 12:30:18 -0800 (PST) Received: from [192.168.0.227] ([196.20.228.30]) (authenticated bits=0) by mail.jnb.afrinic.net (8.14.4/8.14.4) with ESMTP id r04KU6Vc015078 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=AES128-SHA bits=128 verify=NO) for ; Fri, 4 Jan 2013 20:30:13 GMT (envelope-from logan@afrinic.net) From: Logan Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="Apple-Mail=_08BB2E26-9B64-42AA-9493-651A4E7A4EC8" Date: Sat, 5 Jan 2013 00:30:05 +0400 Message-Id: <4A9CACDF-9BA5-4A9B-93C9-DE07812F58A7@afrinic.net> To: saag@ietf.org Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v1278) X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.1278) Subject: [saag] errata in draft-ietf-secsh-filexfer-02.txt X-BeenThere: saag@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: Security Area Advisory Group List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 04 Jan 2013 20:36:09 -0000 --Apple-Mail=_08BB2E26-9B64-42AA-9493-651A4E7A4EC8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Dear All, I'm currently working on resume support for sftp.=20 My patch is available here: https://bugzilla.mindrot.org/show_bug.cgi?id=3D2021 Damien Miller raised an issue with section 6.1. Quote: The protocol and implementations MUST process requests relating to the same file in the order in which they are received. In other words, if an application submits multiple requests to the server, the results in the responses will be the same as if it had sent the requests one at a time and waited for the response in each case. For example, the server may process non-overlapping read/write requests to the same file in parallel, but overlapping reads and writes cannot be reordered or parallelized. However, there are no ordering restrictions on the server for processing requests from two different file transfer connections. The server may interleave and parallelize them at will. There are no restrictions on the order in which responses to outstanding requests are delivered to the client, except that the server must ensure fairness in the sense that processing of no request will be indefinitely delayed even if the client is sending other requests so that there are multiple outstanding requests all the time. The first paragraph suggests banning re-ordering whereas the second = paragraph suggests that no restrictions should be made on the order. This can lead to implementation issues as damien outlined: We've considered doing this in the past but was worried about the = wording in section 6.1 of = http://www.openssh.com/txt/draft-ietf-secsh-filexfer-02.txt allowing the = server to reorder the responses from the block transfers in such a way = that the client got a wrong idea of the high water mark. Also, secsh-filexter-02 is the most widely implemented sftp spec, = despite not being an rfc. Openssh, dropbear and filezilla base their implementation in version 02. However, the secsh wg is marked as concluded, and attempts made at = contacting the authors have not been successful. Please advise. Kind regards, //Logan C-x-C-c - = --------------------------------------------------------------------------= -------------------------- Please join us at the Africa Internet Summit, Lusaka, Zambia, 9 ? 21 June 2013 - = --------------------------------------------------------------------------= -------------------------- --Apple-Mail=_08BB2E26-9B64-42AA-9493-651A4E7A4EC8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/html; charset=us-ascii
Dear = All,

I'm currently working on resume support = for sftp. 

My patch is available = here:


Damien= Miller raised an issue with section = 6.1.

Quote:
  The protocol =
and implementations MUST process requests relating to
   the same file in the order in which they are received.  In other
   words, if an application submits multiple requests to the server, the
   results in the responses will be the same as if it had sent the
   requests one at a time and waited for the response in each case.  For
   example, the server may process non-overlapping read/write requests
   to the same file in parallel, but overlapping reads and writes cannot
   be reordered or parallelized.  However, there are no ordering
   restrictions on the server for processing requests from two different
   file transfer connections.  The server may interleave and parallelize
   them at will.

   There are no restrictions on the order in which responses to
   outstanding requests are delivered to the client, except that the
   server must ensure fairness in the sense that processing of no
   request will be indefinitely delayed even if the client is sending
   other requests so that there are multiple outstanding requests all
   the time.

The first paragraph = suggests banning re-ordering whereas the second paragraph
suggests = that no restrictions should be made on the = order.

This can lead to implementation issues = as damien outlined:





=

--Apple-Mail=_08BB2E26-9B64-42AA-9493-651A4E7A4EC8--

From jhutz@cmu.edu  Fri Jan  4 13:31:45 2013
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From: Jeffrey Hutzelman 
To: Logan 
In-Reply-To: <6921_1357331771_r04KaAHU024169_4A9CACDF-9BA5-4A9B-93C9-DE07812F58A7@afrinic.net>
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Subject: Re: [saag] errata in draft-ietf-secsh-filexfer-02.txt
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On Sat, 2013-01-05 at 00:30 +0400, Logan wrote:


> Also, secsh-filexter-02 is the most widely implemented sftp spec,
> despite not being an rfc.


> However, the secsh wg is marked as concluded, and attempts made at
> contacting the authors have not
> been successful.


The working group is indeed concluded.  However, the ietf-ssh@netbsd.org
mailing list is still active, and SSH-related protocol work still goes
on there from time to time.  That is the most appropriate forum for
discussions related to the sftp protocol.

-- Jeff


From stephen.farrell@cs.tcd.ie  Fri Jan  4 15:47:25 2013
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On 01/04/2013 09:31 PM, Jeffrey Hutzelman wrote:
> On Sat, 2013-01-05 at 00:30 +0400, Logan wrote:
> 
> 
>> Also, secsh-filexter-02 is the most widely implemented sftp spec,
>> despite not being an rfc.
> 
> 
>> However, the secsh wg is marked as concluded, and attempts made at
>> contacting the authors have not
>> been successful.
> 
> 
> The working group is indeed concluded.  However, the ietf-ssh@netbsd.org
> mailing list is still active, and SSH-related protocol work still goes
> on there from time to time.  That is the most appropriate forum for
> discussions related to the sftp protocol.

Fair point. (Blame me, I pointed Logan here. BTW, are there archives
of that? I went looking today but didn't find 'em.)

FWIW, it seems to me to be a fine idea to have an RFC that matches
the implementation of sftp, so I'm happy to help out, if e.g. AD
sponsoring is appropriate. Which is why I suggested taking it up
here, but knowing what ietf-ssh@netbsd.org think would be very
relevant in that.

Cheers,
S.

> 
> -- Jeff
> 
> _______________________________________________
> saag mailing list
> saag@ietf.org
> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/saag
> 
> 

From mouse@Sparkle.Rodents-Montreal.ORG  Fri Jan  4 18:48:02 2013
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> I'm currently working on resume support for sftp.

For what it's worth, I'd suggest the ssh list (ietf-ssh@netbsd.org) for
such discussions.

> Damien Miller raised an issue with section 6.1.

>   The protocol and implementations MUST process requests relating to
>    the same file in the order in which they are received.  [...]

>    There are no restrictions on the order in which responses to
>    outstanding requests are delivered to the client, except that the
>    server must ensure [no over-busy starvation]

> The first paragraph suggests banning re-ordering whereas the second
> paragraph suggests that no restrictions should be made on the order.

Read them carefully.  The first paragraph says that _processing_ must
be done in order.  The second says that _reply delivery_ may occur out
of order.  (Requests bear IDs which allow clients to match up replies
with requests.  This is not sufficient for arbitrary backlogs, but it
is capable of handling outstanding request counts up to a bit over 4
billion.)

If you want to change anything here, I would suggest just emphasizing
that difference, to prevent other people from being confused the way
you were.

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From jhutz@cmu.edu  Fri Jan  4 19:58:00 2013
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From: Jeffrey Hutzelman 
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On Fri, 2013-01-04 at 23:46 +0000, Stephen Farrell wrote:
> 
> On 01/04/2013 09:31 PM, Jeffrey Hutzelman wrote:
> > On Sat, 2013-01-05 at 00:30 +0400, Logan wrote:
> > 
> > 
> >> Also, secsh-filexter-02 is the most widely implemented sftp spec,
> >> despite not being an rfc.
> > 
> > 
> >> However, the secsh wg is marked as concluded, and attempts made at
> >> contacting the authors have not
> >> been successful.
> > 
> > 
> > The working group is indeed concluded.  However, the ietf-ssh@netbsd.org
> > mailing list is still active, and SSH-related protocol work still goes
> > on there from time to time.  That is the most appropriate forum for
> > discussions related to the sftp protocol.
> 
> Fair point. (Blame me, I pointed Logan here. BTW, are there archives
> of that? I went looking today but didn't find 'em.)

Try ftp://ftp.ietf.org/ietf-mail-archive/secsh/

> FWIW, it seems to me to be a fine idea to have an RFC that matches
> the implementation of sftp, so I'm happy to help out, if e.g. AD
> sponsoring is appropriate. Which is why I suggested taking it up
> here, but knowing what ietf-ssh@netbsd.org think would be very
> relevant in that.

If there were authors willing to pick up that document and finish it,
and an AD willing to sponsor it, I expect that there would be sufficient
reviewers on the ietf-ssh list to move forward.  At the time the WG was
closed, there didn't seem to be enough energy left to finish that doc.

-- Jeff


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Subject: [saag] Fwd: I-D Action: draft-eastlake-additional-xmlsec-uris-06.txt
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Some on this list might find this of interest.

spt


-------- Original Message --------
Subject: I-D Action: draft-eastlake-additional-xmlsec-uris-06.txt
Date: Sat, 05 Jan 2013 09:29:55 -0800
From: internet-drafts@ietf.org
Reply-To: internet-drafts@ietf.org
To: i-d-announce@ietf.org


A New Internet-Draft is available from the on-line Internet-Drafts 
directories.


	Title           : Additional XML Security Uniform Resource Identifiers 
(URIs)
	Author(s)       : Donald E. Eastlake
	Filename        : draft-eastlake-additional-xmlsec-uris-06.txt
	Pages           : 39
	Date            : 2013-01-05

Abstract:
    This document expands and updates the list of URIs specified in RFC
    4051 and intended for use with XML Digital Signatures, Encryption,
    Canonicalization, and Key Management. These URIs identify algorithms
    and types of information. This document obsoletes RFC 4051.



The IETF datatracker status page for this draft is:
https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-eastlake-additional-xmlsec-uris

There's also a htmlized version available at:
http://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-eastlake-additional-xmlsec-uris-06

A diff from the previous version is available at:
http://www.ietf.org/rfcdiff?url2=draft-eastlake-additional-xmlsec-uris-06


Internet-Drafts are also available by anonymous FTP at:
ftp://ftp.ietf.org/internet-drafts/

_______________________________________________
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Internet-Draft directories: http://www.ietf.org/shadow.html
or ftp://ftp.ietf.org/ietf/1shadow-sites.txt




From turners@ieca.com  Tue Jan  8 15:11:19 2013
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Message-ID: <50ECA78E.101@ieca.com>
Date: Tue, 08 Jan 2013 18:11:10 -0500
From: Sean Turner 
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To: Jeffrey Hutzelman 
References: <6921_1357331771_r04KaAHU024169_4A9CACDF-9BA5-4A9B-93C9-DE07812F58A7@afrinic.net> <1357335083.18192.193.camel@destiny.pc.cs.cmu.edu> <11910_1357343248_r04NlRQi012298_50E769F1.7050709@cs.tcd.ie> <1357358273.18192.288.camel@destiny.pc.cs.cmu.edu>
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Cc: saag@ietf.org
Subject: Re: [saag] errata in draft-ietf-secsh-filexfer-02.txt
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On 1/4/13 10:57 PM, Jeffrey Hutzelman wrote:
> On Fri, 2013-01-04 at 23:46 +0000, Stephen Farrell wrote:
>>
>> On 01/04/2013 09:31 PM, Jeffrey Hutzelman wrote:
>>> On Sat, 2013-01-05 at 00:30 +0400, Logan wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>>> Also, secsh-filexter-02 is the most widely implemented sftp spec,
>>>> despite not being an rfc.
>>>
>>>
>>>> However, the secsh wg is marked as concluded, and attempts made at
>>>> contacting the authors have not
>>>> been successful.
>>>
>>>
>>> The working group is indeed concluded.  However, the ietf-ssh@netbsd.org
>>> mailing list is still active, and SSH-related protocol work still goes
>>> on there from time to time.  That is the most appropriate forum for
>>> discussions related to the sftp protocol.
>>
>> Fair point. (Blame me, I pointed Logan here. BTW, are there archives
>> of that? I went looking today but didn't find 'em.)
>
> Try ftp://ftp.ietf.org/ietf-mail-archive/secsh/
>
>> FWIW, it seems to me to be a fine idea to have an RFC that matches
>> the implementation of sftp, so I'm happy to help out, if e.g. AD
>> sponsoring is appropriate. Which is why I suggested taking it up
>> here, but knowing what ietf-ssh@netbsd.org think would be very
>> relevant in that.
>
> If there were authors willing to pick up that document and finish it,
> and an AD willing to sponsor it, I expect that there would be sufficient
> reviewers on the ietf-ssh list to move forward.  At the time the WG was
> closed, there didn't seem to be enough energy left to finish that doc.

Yep, I've processed a couple of other ssh-related drafts through the 
process with input from the mailing list.

spt

From jhutz@cmu.edu  Tue Jan  8 15:55:19 2013
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From: Jeffrey Hutzelman 
To: Sean Turner 
Date: Tue, 08 Jan 2013 18:55:13 -0500
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Subject: Re: [saag] errata in draft-ietf-secsh-filexfer-02.txt
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On Tue, 2013-01-08 at 18:11 -0500, Sean Turner wrote:

> Yep, I've processed a couple of other ssh-related drafts through the 
> process with input from the mailing list.

Yeah; I know.  I've even done writeups for a couple. :-)


From turners@ieca.com  Thu Jan 10 05:09:01 2013
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From: Sean Turner 
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Subject: [saag] Fwd: I-D Action: draft-iab-privacy-considerations-05.txt
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Another draft some folks might be interested in.

spt

-------- Original Message --------
Subject: I-D Action: draft-iab-privacy-considerations-05.txt
Date: Thu, 10 Jan 2013 02:21:51 -0800
From: internet-drafts@ietf.org
Reply-To: internet-drafts@ietf.org
To: i-d-announce@ietf.org
CC: iab@iab.org


A New Internet-Draft is available from the on-line Internet-Drafts 
directories.
  This draft is a work item of the Internet Architecture Board Working 
Group of the IETF.

	Title           : Privacy Considerations for Internet Protocols
	Author(s)       : Alissa Cooper
                           Hannes Tschofenig
                           Bernard Aboba
                           Jon Peterson
                           John B. Morris
                           Marit Hansen
                           Rhys Smith
	Filename        : draft-iab-privacy-considerations-05.txt
	Pages           : 40
	Date            : 2013-01-10

Abstract:
    This document offers guidance for developing privacy considerations
    for inclusion in IETF documents.  It aims to make protocol designers
    aware of privacy-related design choices.  It suggests that whether
    any individual RFC requires a specific privacy considerations section
    will depend on the document's content.

    Discussion of this document is taking place on the IETF Privacy
    Discussion mailing list (see
    https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ietf-privacy).


The IETF datatracker status page for this draft is:
https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-iab-privacy-considerations

There's also a htmlized version available at:
http://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-iab-privacy-considerations-05

A diff from the previous version is available at:
http://www.ietf.org/rfcdiff?url2=draft-iab-privacy-considerations-05


Internet-Drafts are also available by anonymous FTP at:
ftp://ftp.ietf.org/internet-drafts/

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From kathleen.moriarty@emc.com  Mon Jan 14 04:45:13 2013
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From: "Moriarty, Kathleen" 
To: "saag@ietf.org" 
Date: Mon, 14 Jan 2013 07:44:59 -0500
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From: Yoav Nir 
To: "Moriarty, Kathleen" 
Thread-Topic: [saag] FW: New Version Notification for draft-moriarty-pkcs12v1-1-00.txt
Thread-Index: Ac3yUB6B+nZIW03gRNKFkIPZCabMAgABLQaA///oXYA=
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Subject: Re: [saag] FW: New Version Notification for	draft-moriarty-pkcs12v1-1-00.txt
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Hi Kathleen

Quickly browsing the draft, I am missing something.=20

PKCS12 is very widely implemented (OpenSSL, Windows, Mac OS Keychain, iOS, =
various vendor products). Is this draft a v1.1 to the v1 that's out there, =
or are all of these already v1.1 and this is documenting or codifying exist=
ing practice.=20

Would a file conforming to this syntax be usable by any or all of these imp=
lementations (modulu bugs)?

I think this draft would be an excellent candidate for an "Implementation S=
tatus" section[1].

Yoav

[1] http://tools.ietf.org/html/draft/sheffer-running-code-01

On Jan 14, 2013, at 2:44 PM, "Moriarty, Kathleen" 
 wrote:

> FYI - RSA has submitted PKCS 12 v1.1 as an individual draft.  Please revi=
ew and provide comments.
>=20
> Thanks,
> Kathleen
>=20
> -----Original Message-----
> From: internet-drafts@ietf.org [mailto:internet-drafts@ietf.org]=20
> Sent: Monday, January 14, 2013 7:09 AM
> To: Moriarty, Kathleen
> Cc: mnystrom@microsoft.com; Parkinson, Sean; Rusch, Andreas; Scott, Micha=
el2
> Subject: New Version Notification for draft-moriarty-pkcs12v1-1-00.txt
>=20
>=20
> A new version of I-D, draft-moriarty-pkcs12v1-1-00.txt
> has been successfully submitted by Kathleen M. Moriarty and posted to the
> IETF repository.
>=20
> Filename:	 draft-moriarty-pkcs12v1-1
> Revision:	 00
> Title:		 PKCS 12 v1.1: Personal Information Exchange Syntax
> Creation date:	 2013-01-14
> WG ID:		 Individual Submission
> Number of pages: 27
> URL:             http://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-moriarty-pkcs1=
2v1-1-00.txt
> Status:          http://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-moriarty-pkcs12v1-=
1
> Htmlized:        http://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-moriarty-pkcs12v1-1-00
>=20
>=20
> Abstract:
>   This standard describes a transfer syntax for personal identity
>   information, including private keys, certificates, miscellaneous
>   secrets, and extensions.  Machines, applications, browsers, Internet
>   kiosks, and so on, that support this standard will allow a user to
>   import, export, and exercise a single set of personal identity
>   information.  This standard supports direct transfer of personal
>   information under several privacy and integrity modes.
>=20
>=20
>=20
>=20
> The IETF Secretariat
>=20
>=20
> _______________________________________________
> saag mailing list
> saag@ietf.org
> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/saag
>=20
> Email secured by Check Point


From kathleen.moriarty@emc.com  Mon Jan 14 05:57:17 2013
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From: "Moriarty, Kathleen" 
To: Yoav Nir 
Date: Mon, 14 Jan 2013 08:56:41 -0500
Thread-Topic: [saag] FW: New Version Notification for draft-moriarty-pkcs12v1-1-00.txt
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Subject: Re: [saag] FW: New Version Notification for	draft-moriarty-pkcs12v1-1-00.txt
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Hello Yoav,

RSA published version 1.1 and this matches the updated version and us s con=
tribution to move the standard into the IETF.

I'll see if we can pull together an implementation status section on this r=
evision.

Best regards,
Kathleen

Sent from my iPhone

On Jan 14, 2013, at 8:25 AM, "Yoav Nir"  wrote:

> Hi Kathleen
>=20
> Quickly browsing the draft, I am missing something.=20
>=20
> PKCS12 is very widely implemented (OpenSSL, Windows, Mac OS Keychain, iOS=
, various vendor products). Is this draft a v1.1 to the v1 that's out there=
, or are all of these already v1.1 and this is documenting or codifying exi=
sting practice.=20
>=20
> Would a file conforming to this syntax be usable by any or all of these i=
mplementations (modulu bugs)?
>=20
> I think this draft would be an excellent candidate for an "Implementation=
 Status" section[1].
>=20
> Yoav
>=20
> [1] http://tools.ietf.org/html/draft/sheffer-running-code-01
>=20
> On Jan 14, 2013, at 2:44 PM, "Moriarty, Kathleen" 
> wrote:
>=20
>> FYI - RSA has submitted PKCS 12 v1.1 as an individual draft.  Please rev=
iew and provide comments.
>>=20
>> Thanks,
>> Kathleen
>>=20
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: internet-drafts@ietf.org [mailto:internet-drafts@ietf.org]=20
>> Sent: Monday, January 14, 2013 7:09 AM
>> To: Moriarty, Kathleen
>> Cc: mnystrom@microsoft.com; Parkinson, Sean; Rusch, Andreas; Scott, Mich=
ael2
>> Subject: New Version Notification for draft-moriarty-pkcs12v1-1-00.txt
>>=20
>>=20
>> A new version of I-D, draft-moriarty-pkcs12v1-1-00.txt
>> has been successfully submitted by Kathleen M. Moriarty and posted to th=
e
>> IETF repository.
>>=20
>> Filename:     draft-moriarty-pkcs12v1-1
>> Revision:     00
>> Title:         PKCS 12 v1.1: Personal Information Exchange Syntax
>> Creation date:     2013-01-14
>> WG ID:         Individual Submission
>> Number of pages: 27
>> URL:             http://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-moriarty-pkcs=
12v1-1-00.txt
>> Status:          http://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-moriarty-pkcs12v1=
-1
>> Htmlized:        http://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-moriarty-pkcs12v1-1-00
>>=20
>>=20
>> Abstract:
>>  This standard describes a transfer syntax for personal identity
>>  information, including private keys, certificates, miscellaneous
>>  secrets, and extensions.  Machines, applications, browsers, Internet
>>  kiosks, and so on, that support this standard will allow a user to
>>  import, export, and exercise a single set of personal identity
>>  information.  This standard supports direct transfer of personal
>>  information under several privacy and integrity modes.
>>=20
>>=20
>>=20
>>=20
>> The IETF Secretariat
>>=20
>>=20
>> _______________________________________________
>> saag mailing list
>> saag@ietf.org
>> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/saag
>>=20
>> Email secured by Check Point
>=20
>=20

From ynir@checkpoint.com  Mon Jan 14 05:59:01 2013
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From: Yoav Nir 
To: "Moriarty, Kathleen" 
Thread-Topic: [saag] FW: New Version Notification for draft-moriarty-pkcs12v1-1-00.txt
Thread-Index: Ac3yUB6B+nZIW03gRNKFkIPZCabMAgABLQaA///oXYCAAApsgIAAAKSA
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Subject: Re: [saag] FW: New Version Notification for	draft-moriarty-pkcs12v1-1-00.txt
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Yes, that's reference [18].

What are the differences between what's out there (v1?)

Yoav

On Jan 14, 2013, at 3:56 PM, "Moriarty, Kathleen" 
 wrote:

> Hello Yoav,
>=20
> RSA published version 1.1 and this matches the updated version and us s c=
ontribution to move the standard into the IETF.
>=20
> I'll see if we can pull together an implementation status section on this=
 revision.
>=20
> Best regards,
> Kathleen
>=20
> Sent from my iPhone
>=20
> On Jan 14, 2013, at 8:25 AM, "Yoav Nir"  wrote:
>=20
>> Hi Kathleen
>>=20
>> Quickly browsing the draft, I am missing something.=20
>>=20
>> PKCS12 is very widely implemented (OpenSSL, Windows, Mac OS Keychain, iO=
S, various vendor products). Is this draft a v1.1 to the v1 that's out ther=
e, or are all of these already v1.1 and this is documenting or codifying ex=
isting practice.=20
>>=20
>> Would a file conforming to this syntax be usable by any or all of these =
implementations (modulu bugs)?
>>=20
>> I think this draft would be an excellent candidate for an "Implementatio=
n Status" section[1].
>>=20
>> Yoav
>>=20
>> [1] http://tools.ietf.org/html/draft/sheffer-running-code-01
>>=20
>> On Jan 14, 2013, at 2:44 PM, "Moriarty, Kathleen" 
>> wrote:
>>=20
>>> FYI - RSA has submitted PKCS 12 v1.1 as an individual draft.  Please re=
view and provide comments.
>>>=20
>>> Thanks,
>>> Kathleen
>>>=20
>>> -----Original Message-----
>>> From: internet-drafts@ietf.org [mailto:internet-drafts@ietf.org]=20
>>> Sent: Monday, January 14, 2013 7:09 AM
>>> To: Moriarty, Kathleen
>>> Cc: mnystrom@microsoft.com; Parkinson, Sean; Rusch, Andreas; Scott, Mic=
hael2
>>> Subject: New Version Notification for draft-moriarty-pkcs12v1-1-00.txt
>>>=20
>>>=20
>>> A new version of I-D, draft-moriarty-pkcs12v1-1-00.txt
>>> has been successfully submitted by Kathleen M. Moriarty and posted to t=
he
>>> IETF repository.
>>>=20
>>> Filename:     draft-moriarty-pkcs12v1-1
>>> Revision:     00
>>> Title:         PKCS 12 v1.1: Personal Information Exchange Syntax
>>> Creation date:     2013-01-14
>>> WG ID:         Individual Submission
>>> Number of pages: 27
>>> URL:             http://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-moriarty-pkc=
s12v1-1-00.txt
>>> Status:          http://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-moriarty-pkcs12v=
1-1
>>> Htmlized:        http://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-moriarty-pkcs12v1-1-0=
0
>>>=20
>>>=20
>>> Abstract:
>>> This standard describes a transfer syntax for personal identity
>>> information, including private keys, certificates, miscellaneous
>>> secrets, and extensions.  Machines, applications, browsers, Internet
>>> kiosks, and so on, that support this standard will allow a user to
>>> import, export, and exercise a single set of personal identity
>>> information.  This standard supports direct transfer of personal
>>> information under several privacy and integrity modes.
>>>=20
>>>=20
>>>=20
>>>=20
>>> The IETF Secretariat
>>>=20
>>>=20
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> saag mailing list
>>> saag@ietf.org
>>> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/saag
>>>=20
>>> Email secured by Check Point
>>=20
>>=20
>=20
> Email secured by Check Point


From kathleen.moriarty@emc.com  Mon Jan 14 06:16:55 2013
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From: "Moriarty, Kathleen" 
To: Yoav Nir 
Date: Mon, 14 Jan 2013 09:16:22 -0500
Thread-Topic: [saag] FW: New Version Notification for draft-moriarty-pkcs12v1-1-00.txt
Thread-Index: Ac3yYb8jw9Qv55JTS46EIX5m3mc0Uw==
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Subject: Re: [saag] FW: New Version Notification for	draft-moriarty-pkcs12v1-1-00.txt
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Both versions are available on the RSA website.  I am limited to an iPhone =
at the moment, if needed, I could provide the differences to the SAAG list.=
  You should be able to see both versions at the following link.

Http://rsa.com/rsalabs/node.asp?id=3D2138

Best regards,
Kathleen

Sent from my iPhone

On Jan 14, 2013, at 8:59 AM, "Yoav Nir"  wrote:

> Yes, that's reference [18].
>=20
> What are the differences between what's out there (v1?)
>=20
> Yoav
>=20
> On Jan 14, 2013, at 3:56 PM, "Moriarty, Kathleen" 
> wrote:
>=20
>> Hello Yoav,
>>=20
>> RSA published version 1.1 and this matches the updated version and us s =
contribution to move the standard into the IETF.
>>=20
>> I'll see if we can pull together an implementation status section on thi=
s revision.
>>=20
>> Best regards,
>> Kathleen
>>=20
>> Sent from my iPhone
>>=20
>> On Jan 14, 2013, at 8:25 AM, "Yoav Nir"  wrote:
>>=20
>>> Hi Kathleen
>>>=20
>>> Quickly browsing the draft, I am missing something.=20
>>>=20
>>> PKCS12 is very widely implemented (OpenSSL, Windows, Mac OS Keychain, i=
OS, various vendor products). Is this draft a v1.1 to the v1 that's out the=
re, or are all of these already v1.1 and this is documenting or codifying e=
xisting practice.=20
>>>=20
>>> Would a file conforming to this syntax be usable by any or all of these=
 implementations (modulu bugs)?
>>>=20
>>> I think this draft would be an excellent candidate for an "Implementati=
on Status" section[1].
>>>=20
>>> Yoav
>>>=20
>>> [1] http://tools.ietf.org/html/draft/sheffer-running-code-01
>>>=20
>>> On Jan 14, 2013, at 2:44 PM, "Moriarty, Kathleen" 
>>> wrote:
>>>=20
>>>> FYI - RSA has submitted PKCS 12 v1.1 as an individual draft.  Please r=
eview and provide comments.
>>>>=20
>>>> Thanks,
>>>> Kathleen
>>>>=20
>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>> From: internet-drafts@ietf.org [mailto:internet-drafts@ietf.org]=20
>>>> Sent: Monday, January 14, 2013 7:09 AM
>>>> To: Moriarty, Kathleen
>>>> Cc: mnystrom@microsoft.com; Parkinson, Sean; Rusch, Andreas; Scott, Mi=
chael2
>>>> Subject: New Version Notification for draft-moriarty-pkcs12v1-1-00.txt
>>>>=20
>>>>=20
>>>> A new version of I-D, draft-moriarty-pkcs12v1-1-00.txt
>>>> has been successfully submitted by Kathleen M. Moriarty and posted to =
the
>>>> IETF repository.
>>>>=20
>>>> Filename:     draft-moriarty-pkcs12v1-1
>>>> Revision:     00
>>>> Title:         PKCS 12 v1.1: Personal Information Exchange Syntax
>>>> Creation date:     2013-01-14
>>>> WG ID:         Individual Submission
>>>> Number of pages: 27
>>>> URL:             http://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-moriarty-pk=
cs12v1-1-00.txt
>>>> Status:          http://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-moriarty-pkcs12=
v1-1
>>>> Htmlized:        http://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-moriarty-pkcs12v1-1-=
00
>>>>=20
>>>>=20
>>>> Abstract:
>>>> This standard describes a transfer syntax for personal identity
>>>> information, including private keys, certificates, miscellaneous
>>>> secrets, and extensions.  Machines, applications, browsers, Internet
>>>> kiosks, and so on, that support this standard will allow a user to
>>>> import, export, and exercise a single set of personal identity
>>>> information.  This standard supports direct transfer of personal
>>>> information under several privacy and integrity modes.
>>>>=20
>>>>=20
>>>>=20
>>>>=20
>>>> The IETF Secretariat
>>>>=20
>>>>=20
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> saag mailing list
>>>> saag@ietf.org
>>>> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/saag
>>>>=20
>>>> Email secured by Check Point
>>>=20
>>>=20
>>=20
>> Email secured by Check Point
>=20
>=20

From smb@cs.columbia.edu  Mon Jan 14 09:13:54 2013
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Subject: Re: [saag] New Version Notification for	draft-moriarty-pkcs12v1-1-00.txt
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On Jan 14, 2013, at 8:56 AM, "Moriarty, Kathleen" =
 wrote:

> Hello Yoav,
>=20
> RSA published version 1.1 and this matches the updated version and us =
s contribution to move the standard into the IETF.
>=20
And to hand change control over to the IETF?  That's a requirement for=20=

IETF-published standards-track documents.


		--Steve Bellovin, https://www.cs.columbia.edu/~smb






From kathleen.moriarty@emc.com  Mon Jan 14 09:18:03 2013
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From: "Moriarty, Kathleen" 
To: Steven Bellovin 
Date: Mon, 14 Jan 2013 12:17:19 -0500
Thread-Topic: [saag] New Version Notification for draft-moriarty-pkcs12v1-1-00.txt
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Subject: Re: [saag] New Version Notification for	draft-moriarty-pkcs12v1-1-00.txt
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Yes!

Sent from my iPhone

On Jan 14, 2013, at 12:14 PM, "Steven Bellovin"  wrote=
:

>=20
> On Jan 14, 2013, at 8:56 AM, "Moriarty, Kathleen"  wrote:
>=20
>> Hello Yoav,
>>=20
>> RSA published version 1.1 and this matches the updated version and us s =
contribution to move the standard into the IETF.
>>=20
> And to hand change control over to the IETF?  That's a requirement for=20
> IETF-published standards-track documents.
>=20
>=20
>        --Steve Bellovin, https://www.cs.columbia.edu/~smb
>=20
>=20
>=20
>=20
>=20
>=20

From paul.hoffman@vpnc.org  Mon Jan 14 10:21:58 2013
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To: "Moriarty, Kathleen" 
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Subject: Re: [saag] New Version Notification for	draft-moriarty-pkcs12v1-1-00.txt
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On Jan 14, 2013, at 6:16 AM, "Moriarty, Kathleen" =
 wrote:

> Both versions are available on the RSA website.  I am limited to an =
iPhone at the moment, if needed, I could provide the differences to the =
SAAG list.  You should be able to see both versions at the following =
link.

A list of differences *in the draft* would be most useful.

--Paul Hoffman


From kathleen.moriarty@emc.com  Wed Jan 16 13:23:51 2013
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From: "Moriarty, Kathleen" 
To: Paul Hoffman 
Date: Wed, 16 Jan 2013 16:19:14 -0500
Thread-Topic: [saag] New Version Notification for draft-moriarty-pkcs12v1-1-00.txt
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Subject: Re: [saag] New Version Notification for	draft-moriarty-pkcs12v1-1-00.txt
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Here are a list of the differences from Version 1 to 1.1:

- Addition of hash algorithms.
- Incorporation of Technical Corrigendum #1, which makes some minor correct=
ions
        to the ASN.1 syntax.
- Removal of 1024 bits as an example for the iteration count out of the ASN=
.1 syntax.
- Addition of a recommendation that the technique in Appendix B no longer b=
e used
        for a specific mode (password privacy mode) and that techniques fro=
m
        PKCS#5 v2.1 be used instead.
- Addition of comments and minor corrections to the ASN.1 module in Appendi=
x C.
- Removal of the export regulations discussion in the former Appendix D.
- Replacement of RSA with EMC in the =93Intellectual property consideration=
s=94.
- Many changes and additions to the references.
- A reference was added to SP 800-132 for its recommendations on selection =
of a
        the iteration count value for password integrity (part of dictionar=
y
        attack resistance).


I can put the diff in the appendix of the draft, just didn't think it would=
 be a common thing to do given version 1.1 is the first IETF draft.

Best regards,
Kathleen
________________________________________
From: Paul Hoffman [paul.hoffman@vpnc.org]
Sent: Monday, January 14, 2013 1:21 PM
To: Moriarty, Kathleen
Cc: saag@ietf.org
Subject: Re: [saag] New Version Notification for        draft-moriarty-pkcs=
12v1-1-00.txt

On Jan 14, 2013, at 6:16 AM, "Moriarty, Kathleen"  wrote:

> Both versions are available on the RSA website.  I am limited to an iPhon=
e at the moment, if needed, I could provide the differences to the SAAG lis=
t.  You should be able to see both versions at the following link.

A list of differences *in the draft* would be most useful.

--Paul Hoffman



From Carolin.Latze@swisscom.com  Fri Jan 18 04:57:59 2013
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From stephen.farrell@cs.tcd.ie  Wed Jan 23 06:26:35 2013
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Hiya,

We have two liaisons from ITU-T that are asking for
responses. (The first we dropped the ball on sending
earlier, sorry about that.)

I expect our answer will basically be: "thanks for
letting us know".

If someone cares more than that and wants us to say
something else, please let Sean and I know or reply
here.

Plan is to kick off sending a response with Eliot's
guidance as to how to say stuff nicely in a week
unless something comes up.

Thanks,
S.


1) Liaison Statement on draft ITU-T X.discovery
https://datatracker.ietf.org/liaison/1189/

2) Liaison on delegated non-repudiation architecture based on
Recommendation ITU-T X.813 and efficient multi-factor authentication
mechanisms using mobile devices
https://datatracker.ietf.org/liaison/1188/


From stephen.farrell@cs.tcd.ie  Thu Jan 24 03:50:08 2013
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On 01/23/2013 11:32 PM, Peter Gutmann wrote:
> Stephen Farrell  writes:
> 
>> If someone cares more than that and wants us to say something else, please
>> let Sean and I know or reply here.
> 
> Shall I be the one to make the response about the standard total misuse of the
> term "nonrepudiation"?  Could they at least call it a contentCommitment
> architecture?

Well, we're sinners there ourselves too, though I do hope
at least folks in the security area have moved all their
"N-R as a n/w service" texts to the fiction shelf:-)

Could be a fine informational RFC or BCP though if someone
wanted to write one up e.g. describing why and when to not
use the term N-R and suggesting better alternatives. We
still fairly regularly see the term used in non-security
drafts so having something at which to point might help a
bit.

Anyway, I expect haggling over terminology with ITU-T
won't be highly productive (for us anyway;-) so I'd suggest
we not get into that for now, but we could if folks really
want us to send back that message.

S.

> 
> Peter.
> 
> 

From paul.hoffman@vpnc.org  Thu Jan 24 06:03:37 2013
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On Jan 24, 2013, at 3:49 AM, Stephen Farrell  =
wrote:

> Anyway, I expect haggling over terminology with ITU-T
> won't be highly productive (for us anyway;-) so I'd suggest
> we not get into that for now, but we could if folks really
> want us to send back that message.

A big -1 on us sending that message to the ITU until we have cleaned up =
our own act on use of the term. No need to spread the hypocrisy.

--Paul Hoffman=20=

From benl@google.com  Fri Jan 25 01:37:36 2013
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On 24 January 2013 11:49, Stephen Farrell  wrote:
>
>
> On 01/23/2013 11:32 PM, Peter Gutmann wrote:
>> Stephen Farrell  writes:
>>
>>> If someone cares more than that and wants us to say something else, please
>>> let Sean and I know or reply here.
>>
>> Shall I be the one to make the response about the standard total misuse of the
>> term "nonrepudiation"?  Could they at least call it a contentCommitment
>> architecture?
>
> Well, we're sinners there ourselves too, though I do hope
> at least folks in the security area have moved all their
> "N-R as a n/w service" texts to the fiction shelf:-)

http://tools.ietf.org/html/rfc5280

From stephen.farrell@cs.tcd.ie  Fri Jan 25 02:07:17 2013
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On 01/25/2013 09:37 AM, Ben Laurie wrote:
> On 24 January 2013 11:49, Stephen Farrell  wrote:
>>
>>
>> On 01/23/2013 11:32 PM, Peter Gutmann wrote:
>>> Stephen Farrell  writes:
>>>
>>>> If someone cares more than that and wants us to say something else, please
>>>> let Sean and I know or reply here.
>>>
>>> Shall I be the one to make the response about the standard total misuse of the
>>> term "nonrepudiation"?  Could they at least call it a contentCommitment
>>> architecture?
>>
>> Well, we're sinners there ourselves too, though I do hope
>> at least folks in the security area have moved all their
>> "N-R as a n/w service" texts to the fiction shelf:-)
> 
> http://tools.ietf.org/html/rfc5280

Heh. To be fair when we did that we were trying to work
around the N-R bit. Much as we'd like to have denied its
existence, that wasn't possible;-)

S.

> 
> 

From paul.hoffman@vpnc.org  Fri Jan 25 08:51:06 2013
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On Jan 25, 2013, at 2:06 AM, Stephen Farrell  =
wrote:

>> http://tools.ietf.org/html/rfc5280
>=20
> Heh. To be fair when we did that we were trying to work
> around the N-R bit. Much as we'd like to have denied its
> existence, that wasn't possible;-)

We could have gotten a lot closer than we did, but we chose not to =
because of lack of gumption on our part. Thus, we should not point any =
fingers at the ITU for perpetuating something that we could have helped =
deprecate long ago.

--Paul Hoffman


From lear@cisco.com  Fri Jan 25 08:52:39 2013
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Date: Fri, 25 Jan 2013 17:52:36 +0100
From: Eliot Lear 
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To: Paul Hoffman 
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Paul,


On 1/25/13 5:49 PM, Paul Hoffman wrote:
> On Jan 25, 2013, at 2:06 AM, Stephen Farrell  wrote:
>
>>> http://tools.ietf.org/html/rfc5280
>> Heh. To be fair when we did that we were trying to work
>> around the N-R bit. Much as we'd like to have denied its
>> existence, that wasn't possible;-)
> We could have gotten a lot closer than we did, but we chose not to because of lack of gumption on our part. Thus, we should not point any fingers at the ITU for perpetuating something that we could have helped deprecate long ago.
>

This needn't be about finger pointing.  It be about pointing out
difficult problems we have faced, and perhaps some that we need to face.

Eliot

From paul.hoffman@vpnc.org  Fri Jan 25 08:55:55 2013
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On Jan 25, 2013, at 8:52 AM, Eliot Lear  wrote:

> On 1/25/13 5:49 PM, Paul Hoffman wrote:
>> On Jan 25, 2013, at 2:06 AM, Stephen Farrell =
 wrote:
>>=20
>>>> http://tools.ietf.org/html/rfc5280
>>> Heh. To be fair when we did that we were trying to work
>>> around the N-R bit. Much as we'd like to have denied its
>>> existence, that wasn't possible;-)
>> We could have gotten a lot closer than we did, but we chose not to =
because of lack of gumption on our part. Thus, we should not point any =
fingers at the ITU for perpetuating something that we could have helped =
deprecate long ago.
>>=20
>=20
> This needn't be about finger pointing.  It be about pointing out
> difficult problems we have faced, and perhaps some that we need to =
face.

If our note to the ITU admits that the IETF needs to deal better with =
dismissing the notion of non-repudiation, that's great. I would happily =
work on the wordsmithing for such a statement. That's not what was =
proposed, however.

--Paul Hoffman=

From simon@josefsson.org  Sun Jan 27 06:02:14 2013
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From: Simon Josefsson 
To: "Moriarty\, Kathleen" 
References: 
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Date: Sun, 27 Jan 2013 15:01:58 +0100
In-Reply-To:  (Kathleen Moriarty's message of "Mon, 14 Jan 2013 07:44:59 -0500")
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Subject: Re: [saag] FW: New Version Notification for draft-moriarty-pkcs12v1-1-00.txt
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Hi,

I'm happy to see this move to the IETF.  However there are several
things in PKCS#12 that are showing signs of age.  Therefor, I believe it
would make some sense to split this effort into two parts:

1) Publish a document that describes what is deployed out there.  This
could be version 1.0 of PKCS#12 with additional notes needed for
interoperability and completeness.

2) Publish a document that describes what can be recommended to solve
the same problem.  It would use modern password derivation methods,
encryption algorithms and modes.

Specific comments:

* Document status.  The draft says "Standards Track" but all other PKCS
  documents have been published as Informational.

* Appendix A is not referenced from anywhere in the body of the
  document.  What is it's role?

* The password derivation algorithm in Appendix B seems old, and indeed
  PKCS#5 PBKDF2 should be used instead -- however it says the described
  method is still used in some situations.  I think a new version of a
  spec in this area should use PKCS#5 PBKDF2 instead.  Or does it talk
  about implementations?  The wording is not clear.

* Appendix B uses PBES1 which is not recommended.

* Appendix B describe some OIDs for PKCS#5 PBES1, but does not mention
  any modern ciphers like AES.

* Appendix D contains copyright, patent and trademark information.
  Normally that doesn't belong in IETF documents.

* It would be nice to expand or discuss the background of the acronym
  "PFX".

/Simon

"Moriarty, Kathleen"  writes:

> FYI - RSA has submitted PKCS 12 v1.1 as an individual draft.  Please
> review and provide comments.
>
> Thanks,
> Kathleen
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: internet-drafts@ietf.org [mailto:internet-drafts@ietf.org] 
> Sent: Monday, January 14, 2013 7:09 AM
> To: Moriarty, Kathleen
> Cc: mnystrom@microsoft.com; Parkinson, Sean; Rusch, Andreas; Scott, Michael2
> Subject: New Version Notification for draft-moriarty-pkcs12v1-1-00.txt
>
>
> A new version of I-D, draft-moriarty-pkcs12v1-1-00.txt
> has been successfully submitted by Kathleen M. Moriarty and posted to the
> IETF repository.
>
> Filename:	 draft-moriarty-pkcs12v1-1
> Revision:	 00
> Title:		 PKCS 12 v1.1: Personal Information Exchange Syntax
> Creation date:	 2013-01-14
> WG ID:		 Individual Submission
> Number of pages: 27
> URL:
> http://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-moriarty-pkcs12v1-1-00.txt
> Status:          http://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-moriarty-pkcs12v1-1
> Htmlized:        http://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-moriarty-pkcs12v1-1-00
>
>
> Abstract:
>    This standard describes a transfer syntax for personal identity
>    information, including private keys, certificates, miscellaneous
>    secrets, and extensions.  Machines, applications, browsers, Internet
>    kiosks, and so on, that support this standard will allow a user to
>    import, export, and exercise a single set of personal identity
>    information.  This standard supports direct transfer of personal
>    information under several privacy and integrity modes.
>
>                                                                                   
>
>
> The IETF Secretariat

From kathleen.moriarty@emc.com  Sun Jan 27 17:50:08 2013
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From: "Moriarty, Kathleen" 
To: Simon Josefsson 
Date: Sun, 27 Jan 2013 20:50:00 -0500
Thread-Topic: FW: New Version Notification for draft-moriarty-pkcs12v1-1-00.txt
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Hi Simon,

Thank you for the review!  I will try to update the draft later in the week=
 and post it as soon as possible. =20

I meant to make the draft informational since it is submitted as an individ=
ual draft, so I will be sure to correct that. =20

I'll concentrate on this draft for now.  Might it be good to have this vers=
ion published similar to the PKCS #12 v1.1 and a -bis or new document updat=
e from there with your #2 suggestion?=20

Thank you,
Kathleen=20
________________________________________
From: Simon Josefsson [simon@josefsson.org]
Sent: Sunday, January 27, 2013 9:01 AM
To: Moriarty, Kathleen
Cc: saag@ietf.org
Subject: Re: FW: New Version Notification for draft-moriarty-pkcs12v1-1-00.=
txt

Hi,

I'm happy to see this move to the IETF.  However there are several
things in PKCS#12 that are showing signs of age.  Therefor, I believe it
would make some sense to split this effort into two parts:

1) Publish a document that describes what is deployed out there.  This
could be version 1.0 of PKCS#12 with additional notes needed for
interoperability and completeness.

2) Publish a document that describes what can be recommended to solve
the same problem.  It would use modern password derivation methods,
encryption algorithms and modes.

Specific comments:

* Document status.  The draft says "Standards Track" but all other PKCS
  documents have been published as Informational.

* Appendix A is not referenced from anywhere in the body of the
  document.  What is it's role?

* The password derivation algorithm in Appendix B seems old, and indeed
  PKCS#5 PBKDF2 should be used instead -- however it says the described
  method is still used in some situations.  I think a new version of a
  spec in this area should use PKCS#5 PBKDF2 instead.  Or does it talk
  about implementations?  The wording is not clear.

* Appendix B uses PBES1 which is not recommended.

* Appendix B describe some OIDs for PKCS#5 PBES1, but does not mention
  any modern ciphers like AES.

* Appendix D contains copyright, patent and trademark information.
  Normally that doesn't belong in IETF documents.

* It would be nice to expand or discuss the background of the acronym
  "PFX".

/Simon

"Moriarty, Kathleen"  writes:

> FYI - RSA has submitted PKCS 12 v1.1 as an individual draft.  Please
> review and provide comments.
>
> Thanks,
> Kathleen
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: internet-drafts@ietf.org [mailto:internet-drafts@ietf.org]
> Sent: Monday, January 14, 2013 7:09 AM
> To: Moriarty, Kathleen
> Cc: mnystrom@microsoft.com; Parkinson, Sean; Rusch, Andreas; Scott, Micha=
el2
> Subject: New Version Notification for draft-moriarty-pkcs12v1-1-00.txt
>
>
> A new version of I-D, draft-moriarty-pkcs12v1-1-00.txt
> has been successfully submitted by Kathleen M. Moriarty and posted to the
> IETF repository.
>
> Filename:      draft-moriarty-pkcs12v1-1
> Revision:      00
> Title:                 PKCS 12 v1.1: Personal Information Exchange Syntax
> Creation date:         2013-01-14
> WG ID:                 Individual Submission
> Number of pages: 27
> URL:
> http://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-moriarty-pkcs12v1-1-00.txt
> Status:          http://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-moriarty-pkcs12v1-=
1
> Htmlized:        http://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-moriarty-pkcs12v1-1-00
>
>
> Abstract:
>    This standard describes a transfer syntax for personal identity
>    information, including private keys, certificates, miscellaneous
>    secrets, and extensions.  Machines, applications, browsers, Internet
>    kiosks, and so on, that support this standard will allow a user to
>    import, export, and exercise a single set of personal identity
>    information.  This standard supports direct transfer of personal
>    information under several privacy and integrity modes.
>
>
>
>
> The IETF Secretariat


From paul.hoffman@vpnc.org  Sun Jan 27 18:42:29 2013
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To: "Moriarty, Kathleen" 
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Subject: Re: [saag] New Version Notification for draft-moriarty-pkcs12v1-1-00.txt
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On Jan 27, 2013, at 5:50 PM, "Moriarty, Kathleen" =
 wrote:

> I meant to make the draft informational since it is submitted as an =
individual draft, so I will be sure to correct that. =20

Errr, that's a non sequitur. Drafts written by individuals can be on =
Standards Track.=20

> I'll concentrate on this draft for now.  Might it be good to have this =
version published similar to the PKCS #12 v1.1 and a -bis or new =
document update from there with your #2 suggestion?=20

What Simon suggested was:

> 1) Publish a document that describes what is deployed out there.  This
> could be version 1.0 of PKCS#12 with additional notes needed for
> interoperability and completeness.
>=20
> 2) Publish a document that describes what can be recommended to solve
> the same problem.  It would use modern password derivation methods,
> encryption algorithms and modes.

I think that his suggestion is a good one. Have two drafts going at =
once: an Informational RFC describing PKCS #12 1.0 (including things =
that have been found in current practice), and a Standards Track RFC =
defining PKCS#12 1.1 that fixes the issues with 1.0.

--Paul Hoffman=

From simon@josefsson.org  Mon Jan 28 13:22:48 2013
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From: Simon Josefsson 
To: Peter Gutmann 
References: 
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Date: Mon, 28 Jan 2013 22:22:05 +0100
In-Reply-To:  (Peter Gutmann's message of "Mon, 28 Jan 2013 14:04:05 +1300")
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Cc: kathleen.moriarty@emc.com, saag@ietf.org
Subject: Re: [saag] FW: New Version Notification for draft-moriarty-pkcs12v1-1-00.txt
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Peter Gutmann  writes:

> Simon Josefsson  writes:
>
>>1) Publish a document that describes what is deployed out there.  This could
>>be version 1.0 of PKCS#12 with additional notes needed for interoperability
>>and completeness.
>
> That would be useful, because there are several optional bits of PKCS #12 for
> which implementations (and I'm thinking mostly of Windows here) will just
> silently break if you don't include them.  You can put in bogus/dummy values
> and things will be fine, but you do need to have something there.
>
> This document could also warn people that, for example, sixteen years after
> the publication of breakms.c, Microsoft *still* thinks that RC2/40 is an
> appropriate protection mechanism for PKCS #12 data.

This was the kind of issues I was thinking of.

>>It would be nice to expand or discuss the background of the acronym "PFX".
>
> That would probably mean recording the sordid history of the politics behind
> PFX and PKCS #12, is that something that'd fit in an RFC?

Perhaps the sordid parts could be left out.  Would it be controversial
to apply something like the following?

OLD: (section 2, Definitions and Notations)
      PFX: The top-level exchange PDU defined in this standard.

NEW:
      PFX: The top-level exchange PDU defined in this standard.  The
      acronym is sometimes expanded as Personal Information Exchange.

/Simon

From simon@josefsson.org  Mon Jan 28 13:55:04 2013
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From: Simon Josefsson 
To: "Moriarty\, Kathleen" 
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Date: Mon, 28 Jan 2013 22:54:47 +0100
In-Reply-To:  (Kathleen Moriarty's message of "Sun, 27 Jan 2013 20:50:00 -0500")
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Cc: "saag@ietf.org" 
Subject: Re: [saag] FW: New Version Notification for draft-moriarty-pkcs12v1-1-00.txt
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"Moriarty, Kathleen"  writes:

> Hi Simon,
>
> Thank you for the review!  I will try to update the draft later in the
> week and post it as soon as possible.
>
> I meant to make the draft informational since it is submitted as an
> individual draft, so I will be sure to correct that.

Thank you.

> I'll concentrate on this draft for now.  Might it be good to have this
> version published similar to the PKCS #12 v1.1 and a -bis or new
> document update from there with your #2 suggestion?

The PKCS#12 v1.1 draft is valuable to the IETF community, but it
currently doesn't appear to solve either of these problems:

1) Having PKCS#12 version 1.0 under IETF's control.  It is widely
implemented and deployed by many Internet applications.

2) Describing something that is secure that solves the same problem.

Still, with your publication, I have become more optimistic that we will
see either or both of these problems addressed in the future.  I was
expressing a hope that you might address them while you were doing the
PKCS#12 v1.1 work.

Btw, if permission can be negotiated with the copyright holder to submit
PKCS#12 version 1.0 (and its technical corrigendum) to the IETF, I'd be
happy to do the work to put that in IETF draft form.  With proper
security considerations, and hopefully interop considerations (but
better to publish without it than to not publish), that document could
be published as INFORMATIONAL.

/Simon

> Thank you,
> Kathleen 
> ________________________________________
> From: Simon Josefsson [simon@josefsson.org]
> Sent: Sunday, January 27, 2013 9:01 AM
> To: Moriarty, Kathleen
> Cc: saag@ietf.org
> Subject: Re: FW: New Version Notification for draft-moriarty-pkcs12v1-1-00.txt
>
> Hi,
>
> I'm happy to see this move to the IETF.  However there are several
> things in PKCS#12 that are showing signs of age.  Therefor, I believe it
> would make some sense to split this effort into two parts:
>
> 1) Publish a document that describes what is deployed out there.  This
> could be version 1.0 of PKCS#12 with additional notes needed for
> interoperability and completeness.
>
> 2) Publish a document that describes what can be recommended to solve
> the same problem.  It would use modern password derivation methods,
> encryption algorithms and modes.
>
> Specific comments:
>
> * Document status.  The draft says "Standards Track" but all other PKCS
>   documents have been published as Informational.
>
> * Appendix A is not referenced from anywhere in the body of the
>   document.  What is it's role?
>
> * The password derivation algorithm in Appendix B seems old, and indeed
>   PKCS#5 PBKDF2 should be used instead -- however it says the described
>   method is still used in some situations.  I think a new version of a
>   spec in this area should use PKCS#5 PBKDF2 instead.  Or does it talk
>   about implementations?  The wording is not clear.
>
> * Appendix B uses PBES1 which is not recommended.
>
> * Appendix B describe some OIDs for PKCS#5 PBES1, but does not mention
>   any modern ciphers like AES.
>
> * Appendix D contains copyright, patent and trademark information.
>   Normally that doesn't belong in IETF documents.
>
> * It would be nice to expand or discuss the background of the acronym
>   "PFX".
>
> /Simon
>
> "Moriarty, Kathleen"  writes:
>
>> FYI - RSA has submitted PKCS 12 v1.1 as an individual draft.  Please
>> review and provide comments.
>>
>> Thanks,
>> Kathleen
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: internet-drafts@ietf.org [mailto:internet-drafts@ietf.org]
>> Sent: Monday, January 14, 2013 7:09 AM
>> To: Moriarty, Kathleen
>> Cc: mnystrom@microsoft.com; Parkinson, Sean; Rusch, Andreas; Scott, Michael2
>> Subject: New Version Notification for draft-moriarty-pkcs12v1-1-00.txt
>>
>>
>> A new version of I-D, draft-moriarty-pkcs12v1-1-00.txt
>> has been successfully submitted by Kathleen M. Moriarty and posted to the
>> IETF repository.
>>
>> Filename:      draft-moriarty-pkcs12v1-1
>> Revision:      00
>> Title:                 PKCS 12 v1.1: Personal Information Exchange Syntax
>> Creation date:         2013-01-14
>> WG ID:                 Individual Submission
>> Number of pages: 27
>> URL:
>> http://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-moriarty-pkcs12v1-1-00.txt
>> Status:          http://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-moriarty-pkcs12v1-1
>> Htmlized:        http://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-moriarty-pkcs12v1-1-00
>>
>>
>> Abstract:
>>    This standard describes a transfer syntax for personal identity
>>    information, including private keys, certificates, miscellaneous
>>    secrets, and extensions.  Machines, applications, browsers, Internet
>>    kiosks, and so on, that support this standard will allow a user to
>>    import, export, and exercise a single set of personal identity
>>    information.  This standard supports direct transfer of personal
>>    information under several privacy and integrity modes.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> The IETF Secretariat

From turners@ieca.com  Tue Jan 29 06:04:54 2013
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Date: Tue, 29 Jan 2013 09:04:48 -0500
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Subject: [saag] Call for SAAG presentation topics
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Folks,

Stephen and I are putting together the SAAG agendas for Orlando.

The agenda traditionally includes one or two invited presentations after 
the working group reports.  We would appreciate submission of 
presentation topics that you believe would be of interest to the 
community.  If you can identify an appropriate presenter (not 
necessarily yourself) that would be helpful.

Thanks,

spt

From bernard_aboba@hotmail.com  Wed Jan 30 11:05:53 2013
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Subject: [saag] Ongoing Call for Comments
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--_b6e4e3b2-f656-44cb-81d5-21f3e6ded07d_
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This is a note about two ongoing Call for Comments that may interest SAAG p=
articipants. Comments on these documents can be sent to iab@iab.org or ente=
red in TRAC.

1.  Privacy Considerations for Internet Protocols.   This Call for Comment =
ends on February 18=2C 2013.  The document is being considered for publicat=
ion as an Informational RFC=0A=
 within the IAB stream=2C and is available for inspection here:=20
=0A=
http://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-iab-privacy-considerations=20

The Call for Comment announcement is available here:
https://www.ietf.org/ibin/c5i?mid=3D6&rid=3D49&gid=3D0&k1=3D934&k2=3D11573&=
tid=3D1359572424

2.  Issues in Identifier Comparison for Security Purposes.  This Call for C=
omment ends on February 10=2C 2013. The document is being considered for pu=
blication as an Informational RFC=0A=
 within the IAB stream=2C and is available for inspection here:=20
=0A=
http://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-iab-identifier-comparison=20

The Call for Comment announcement is available here:
https://www.ietf.org/ibin/c5i?mid=3D6&rid=3D49&gid=3D0&k1=3D934&k2=3D11533&=
tid=3D1359572424


 		 	   		  =

--_b6e4e3b2-f656-44cb-81d5-21f3e6ded07d_
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This is a note about two ongoing=
 Call for Comments that may interest SAAG participants. Comments on these d=
ocuments can be sent to iab@iab.org or entered in TRAC.

1. =3B P=
rivacy Considerations for Internet Protocols. =3B =3B This Call for=
 Comment ends on February 18=2C 2013. =3B The document is being conside=
red for publication as an Informational RFC=0A=
 within the IAB stream=2C and is available for inspection here: =3B
=
=0A=
http://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-iab-privacy-considerations 

The Cal=
l for Comment announcement is available here:
https://www.ietf.org/ibin/=
c5i?mid=3D6&=3Brid=3D49&=3Bgid=3D0&=3Bk1=3D934&=3Bk2=3D11573&am=
p=3Btid=3D1359572424

2. =3B Issues in Identifier Comparison for =
Security Purposes. =3B This Call for Comment ends on February 10=2C 201=
3. The document is being considered for publication as an Informational RFC=
=0A=
 within the IAB stream=2C and is available for inspection here: =3B
=
=0A=
http://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-iab-identifier-comparison 

The Call=
 for Comment announcement is available here:
https://www.ietf.org/ibin/c=
5i?mid=3D6&=3Brid=3D49&=3Bgid=3D0&=3Bk1=3D934&=3Bk2=3D11533&=
=3Btid=3D1359572424


 		 	   		  

=

--_b6e4e3b2-f656-44cb-81d5-21f3e6ded07d_--

From hardjono@mit.edu  Wed Jan 30 14:13:53 2013
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Subject: [saag] FYI: Two new lightweight ciphers (SIMON and SPECK)
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FYI for those who are interested in lightweight block ciphers.

Today at the MIT Media Lab Legal Hack-a-thon on Identity we had a
great presentation from a couple of designers from the NSA regarding
their new lightweight ciphers called SIMON and SPECK. These ciphers
are designed for low-power limited gate devices (such as RFID and
similar devices).

The MIT Media Lab Hack-a-thon page is here:
http://iauth.org

The NSA presentation is here (You Tube):
http://tinyurl.com/bf6fbju

Their paper (PDF) is here:
http://iauth.org/legal-hack-a-thon/simonspeckperformance-2/



/thomas/




__________________________________________
Thomas Hardjono
MIT Kerberos Consortium
email:=A0 hardjono[at]mit.edu
mobile: +1 781-729-9559
__________________________________________


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Subject: [saag] Fwd: Last Call:  (Additional XML Security Uniform Resource Identifiers (URIs)) to Proposed Standard
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Some on this list might be interested in this draft.  Note if you have 
comments please send them to ietf@ietf.org.

spt

-------- Original Message --------
Subject: Last Call:  
(Additional XML Security Uniform Resource Identifiers (URIs)) to 
Proposed Standard
Date: Thu, 31 Jan 2013 06:13:57 -0800
From: The IESG 
Reply-To: ietf@ietf.org
To: IETF-Announce 


The IESG has received a request from an individual submitter to consider
the following document:
- 'Additional XML Security Uniform Resource Identifiers (URIs)'
    as Proposed Standard

The IESG plans to make a decision in the next few weeks, and solicits
final comments on this action. Please send substantive comments to the
ietf@ietf.org mailing lists by 2013-02-28. Exceptionally, comments may be
sent to iesg@ietf.org instead. In either case, please retain the
beginning of the Subject line to allow automated sorting.

Abstract


    This document expands and updates the list of URIs specified in RFC
    4051 and intended for use with XML Digital Signatures, Encryption,
    Canonicalization, and Key Management. These URIs identify algorithms
    and types of information. This document obsoletes RFC 4051.

The file can be obtained via
http://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-eastlake-additional-xmlsec-uris/

IESG discussion can be tracked via
http://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-eastlake-additional-xmlsec-uris/ballot/


No IPR declarations have been submitted directly on this I-D.

Note that this document includes the following downrefs:

RFC 2315
RFC 4050
RFC 4269
RFC 6234




From d3e3e3@gmail.com  Thu Jan 31 08:42:34 2013
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From: Donald Eastlake 
Date: Thu, 31 Jan 2013 11:42:11 -0500
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To: saag@ietf.org
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Subject: Re: [saag] Fwd: Last Call:  (Additional XML Security Uniform Resource Identifiers (URIs)) to Proposed Standard
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Hi SAAG,

I anticipate uploading -08 with some minor changes late today so you
might want to wait a day or two to look at it....

Thanks,
Donald
=============================
 Donald E. Eastlake 3rd   +1-508-333-2270 (cell)
 155 Beaver Street, Milford, MA 01757 USA
 d3e3e3@gmail.com


On Thu, Jan 31, 2013 at 10:54 AM, Sean Turner  wrote:
> Some on this list might be interested in this draft.  Note if you have
> comments please send them to ietf@ietf.org.
>
> spt
>
>
> -------- Original Message --------
> Subject: Last Call: 
> (Additional XML Security Uniform Resource Identifiers (URIs)) to Proposed
> Standard
> Date: Thu, 31 Jan 2013 06:13:57 -0800
> From: The IESG 
> Reply-To: ietf@ietf.org
> To: IETF-Announce 
>
>
> The IESG has received a request from an individual submitter to consider
> the following document:
> - 'Additional XML Security Uniform Resource Identifiers (URIs)'
>    as Proposed Standard
>
> The IESG plans to make a decision in the next few weeks, and solicits
> final comments on this action. Please send substantive comments to the
> ietf@ietf.org mailing lists by 2013-02-28. Exceptionally, comments may be
> sent to iesg@ietf.org instead. In either case, please retain the
> beginning of the Subject line to allow automated sorting.
>
> Abstract
>
>
>    This document expands and updates the list of URIs specified in RFC
>    4051 and intended for use with XML Digital Signatures, Encryption,
>    Canonicalization, and Key Management. These URIs identify algorithms
>    and types of information. This document obsoletes RFC 4051.
>
> The file can be obtained via
> http://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-eastlake-additional-xmlsec-uris/
>
> IESG discussion can be tracked via
> http://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-eastlake-additional-xmlsec-uris/ballot/
>
>
> No IPR declarations have been submitted directly on this I-D.
>
> Note that this document includes the following downrefs:
>
> RFC 2315
> RFC 4050
> RFC 4269
> RFC 6234
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> saag mailing list
> saag@ietf.org
> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/saag